HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: baze@carson.u.washington.edu (Behzad Khamneian)
Subject: Re: Trouble at the UDub
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 00:34:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.214700.7873@u.washington.edu> tannerg@carson.u.washington.edu (Glenn Tanner) writes:
>The Seattle Times is reporting that Husky QB Billy Joe Hobert received
>a $50,000 loan from an Idaho businessman last spring.  Don James and    
>athletic director Barbara Hedges apparently were informed of the loan 
>only yesterday by the Times reporters.  The NCAA says they will not 
>pursue this until receiving a report from the UW.  An NCAA spokesman says
>the legality of the loan depends on the relationship to the player (BJ 
>says he was his golfing buddy and the man apparently has no affiliation
>to the university) and the "normality" of the payoff (there are no 
>specified payoff in BJ's loan).  National-letter-of-intent contracts say
>that no outside loans may be accepted.

  This case, so far, doesn't seem to be any worse than the DuBose case. 
However, UW doesn't have the payoff, err.. the luck of the Irish!!  So, 
Billy Joe may not get the same treatment that Dubose did.  In any case,
what Hobert did was *very* stupid, blowing the money on a 1992 Camaro, guns,
golf clubs, partying, and a stereo.  His wife is pregnant and here this guy
gets oodles of money that almost all college students would die for and just
throws it away.  Plus, he is a student athlete and is not supposed to take
these kinds of loands according to the NCAA!!
  Personally, I have no problems with a player taking money from someone else,
unless the money is used to sway the player to choose a particular college 
when the kid is high school.  But, the NCAA doesn't take sh*t!!

  Billy Joe has been sort of a trouble-maker since his arrival at the UW.
First, he was not "comfortable" two years ago playing behind Brunell.
Then, he flapped his gums all season last year (putting down the performance
of the offense after the Cal game and then saying that the UW should throw
the Rose Bowl to play Miami).  And this year, he has not performed up to 
expectation and now this loan crap!!

The Jim McMahon of college football ladies and gentlemen.

>GT

-Behzad
p.s. Good timing by the press!!  Right before the biggest game of the season
and a week, when we are ranked #1.  Last year, the press did some story bout
low graduation rates after we had just finished the season 11-0.


Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov  (Orin Day)
Subject: Re: What makes a team #1?
Reply-To: oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov  (Orin Day)
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 01:34:52 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.182436.13432@newssun.med.miami.edu>  
dbrown@newssun.med.miami.edu (Daniel Brown) writes:

> The pollsters have demonstrated that they really haven't 
> figured out an objective way to determine who is number
> one, but maybe I can give my two-cents worth:
> 
> 	Clearly, winning has to be the ultimate criterion.
> 
> With regards to this, we presently have three frontrunners 
> (in alphabetical order to avoid offending anyone):

Maybe it should have been randomly selected order :)

> Other criteria are suspect to politics and favoritism.  As 
> an example, Miami can be faulted for allowing 23 points to
> West Virginia in their last game: a #1 wouldn't allow that
> many points.  But anyone who saw the game knew that by the
> fourth quarter this game was over and second-, third-, and
> fourth- stringers were playing.  There are many other equally
> dubious examples.  

The problem is, however, that on one side of the coin, there
are pollsters that are media people.  They are busy doing
their jobs on Saturdays, not home flipping between games on
the tube many of us fans.  And after their game comes post
game interviews, writing up their stories, and travel (for most
of the national writers, and half the beat writers).  So, how
many games do these guys see each week?  Probably not as many
as you do in your living room (assuming you're not at the game
yourself:).  And the time the ballots must be submitted is even
earlier now, though increased NCAA coverage has helped the spread
of information in the last 5 years, certainly.
 
On the other side of the coin are the coaches, coaches who often look
at what they perceive to be the relative strengths and weaknesses
of teams equally as much as records.  With nothing to say of their
own personal interests in the matter, other cronie coaches, etc.

And the reputation of a team bears heavily on both (e.g. Georgia
Tech and Colorado w/split MNC despite various controversies, the
big BYU controversy when they went undefeated with a weak schedule
and were locked into a minor bowl).

> I think these pollster people have to figure out a more
> appropriate of determing who is #1.

Or the NCAA has to figure out a more appropriate way of 
determining who is #1 without these pollster people.

> After all, winning a national championship is about winning,
> not about which coast that team is from, how badly they beat
> everyone, and what bowl they played in, etc.  

But it is now, at least in football.

Looking forward to the relative objectivity of basketball season
(while missing the controversy),

Orin

--
************* "How about a little fire, Scarecrow?" **************
Orin Day, Code 664.1                    oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov
Hughes STX/NASA       GSFC Laboratory for High Energy Astrophysics
*******"Think that this is NASA's opinion?   NO, NO, NO!!!" ******
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: scott@ods.com (Scott Harper)
Subject: Latest Big8/SWC News
Organization: Optical Data Systems, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 16:25:48 GMT

The following is the first part of a story printed in today's (11/6)
Dallas Morning News, on the front page of the sports section.  Copied
without permission, of course.

SWC-Big Eight merger to be discussed
Fear of raiding prompts presidents' vote

Southwest Conference presidents, fearing predatory attacks by other
expanding conferences, voted for the first time Thursday to actively
seek a merger with the Big Eight.

SMU President A. Kenneth Pye, head of the SWC Council of Presidents, 
said the group believes the Big Ten and Pac-10 may soon follow the
Southeastern Conference's lead by growing to 12 members, splitting into
divisions and adding a playoff game.

"If that is the case, then several conferences may be dismembered, and it
is time for this conference to begin to think in what directions it
should proceed," Pye said after the annual Council of Presidents meeting
at SWC headquarters.

Big Eight presidents will be contacted individually to set up a meeting
during the 1993 NCAA Convention in Dallas, Jan. 13-16, Pye said.

The president's council, which had opposed expansion in the past, decided
the Big Eight move would be the first explored.  But Pye said other 
additions of individual schools and agreements with other conferences
also will be considered.

"In the first instance, we would approach all the presidents in a
conference about how we could work out arrangements before we would
attempt to approach an individual school to break off from a
conference," Pye said.

In 1990, the SWC was stung by the announcement that Arkansas had
accepted an SEC invitation to join.

Pye said the SWC does not want to resort to the same tactic.

"Whether we can afford to maintain that high ethical plane while
everybody around us is not behaving in that manner is something else
again," Pye said.
-- 
Scott Harper                       Optical Data Systems, Inc.
scott@ods.com                      1101 E. Arapaho Road
(214) 234-6400                     Richardson, TX  75081
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: xxg8029@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Hang-10)
Subject: What's the score between Hawaii and Colo. St.
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:37:25 GMT


Hi, fellow football fans:

	I just wondering what's the score between Hawaii and
Colo. St.  I know they have won, otherwise they won't rank
in the top 25 in both polls (23rd on CNN poll and 24th on
AP poll), but how impressive is the win?
	Also, who's the QB and RB for Hawaii right now?
Still Michael Carter and Jamal Farmer?  How they are 
doing?
	So far, the most impressive win for Hawaii I think
is at Air Force.  For once, Hawaii finally showed some 
defense.  Maybe Hawaii is a fit for Air Force since
Air Force is famous for it's I-formation.  Hope the same
holds true when Hawaii tackle SDSU next week.  Hawaii
always have very poor secondary.  If a QB giving time,
can pick apart Hawaii secondary easily.  Hope they
can improve on that.
From: poore@ds13.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: MOO HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA *evil grin*
Date: 4 Nov 92 16:25:01 GMT
Reply-To: poore@ds13.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Florida State University

In article <c5os03gub7sd00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> fierro@uts.amdahl.com (Doug Fierro) writes:
>  Lee Corso is an asshole, a slight step below the Monday night Morons.
>...<
>pretty much screwed up any chance your team had of winning.  Has Lee ever 
>even played football before?  I can't believe they let an idiot like him 

Geez, Doug, I think all that Pasadena smog is getting to your brain.

Lee Corso was a standout DB at FSU. Until last season he held the career
interception record here. I think Terrell Buckley tied it, but he may
have broken it...not sure.

David Poore
poore@ds13.scri.fsu.edu
From: acdendy@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (ROGER DENDY)
Subject: Roger's Top 25--GotW picks
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date:  6 Nov 1992 17:22 EST  

Several really good games this week.  Of course, I'll probably be stuck 
watching Ohio State again (Cable costs WHAT??!!).

Game of the Week:	6 Nebraska
			  vs
			12 Kansas	for the Orange Bowl berth

Alternate Game otW:	1 Washington
			  vs
			17 Arizona	Dogs bite Cats

Others worth watching:	9 Notre Dame
			  vs
			15 Boston College

			10 Southern Cal
			   vs
			18 Stanford

Ugly Game of the Week:	2 Florida State
			  vs
			86 Maryland

Crummy Game otW:	101 Pacific
			    vs
			102 Cal State Fullerton

Alternate (it's hard to pick just one):
			94 Tulane
			   vs
			103 Navy

R Dendy
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: PENN STATE'S POOR OUTING
From: Kurt Ludwick <KEL111@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 22:55:12 EST

In article <Nov.2.12.22.36.1992.11740@pilot.njin.net>, jmgreen@pilot.njin.net
(Jim Green) says:

>Why, you arrogant twits!  BYU beat Penn State because BYU has a better
>ball club than Penn State.

Right. And USC was better than Penn State last year.  Whatever.

------------
Kurt Ludwick
------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: dhead@comanche.ess.harris.com (David Head)
Subject: Re: Koontz Computer Predictions 11-14
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:46:00 GMT
Reply-To: dhead@comanche.ess.harris.com
Organization: Harris Semiconductor, Melbourne  FL


>>Texas A&M   13
>>Houston     41

>>Syracuse    13
>>BC          38

>>Oregon St.  23
>>Washington  24

>>Temple       8
>>Miami        9

>>Tulane      16
>>Florida St. 17


I think maybe the computer might have a few wires crossed on some of these
predictions.  Texas A&M's defense giving up 41 points to UH?  Washington
just nipping OSU?  Miami only getting 9 points against Temple?  And if my
beloved Noles play even half as well as they did against Maryland, they
have to get more than 17 points against Tulane!  Is that score with or
without 25th ranked Charlie Ward?

D. Head

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: billms@eecs.umich.edu (William Mangione-Smith)
Subject: Re: OSU attendance (WAS: Re: Glen Mason to Ohio State?)
Organization: University of Michigan
	<BxM5zK.4nD@hfglobe.intel.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:38:14 GMT

In article <BxM5zK.4nD@hfglobe.intel.com> sting@hfglobe.intel.com (Joe Bennett) writes:

   Now, being a Michigan student on leave in Cali, I'm gonna get flamed
   tremendously for this, but I think it's because of Michigan's academic record
   that is the reason for players coming to Michigan.  You add that to the fact
   that tOSU fans seem to be constantly looking for the coaches head on a platter,
   and you make it very, very hard to recruit.

If a player were selecting schools based on academic, in addition to
football, standards why would they choose Michigan over Stanford?  

Bill
--
-------------------------------
	Bill Mangione-Smith
	billms@eecs.umich.edu
From: sfm@manduca.neurobio.arizona.edu (Stephen Matheson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Washington vs. Arizona
Date: 8 Nov 92 18:46:39 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona UNIX Users Group

From article <1992Nov8.045724.5816@serval.net.wsu.edu>, by jjungbau@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (Jim Jungbauer):
> In article <1992Nov7.234015.28427@u.washington.edu> baze@carson.u.washington.edu (Behzad Khamneian) writes:
> 
>   [stuff on UW loss to UA deleted]
> 
>>I am still prepared for the worst -->  An 0-9 record on Thursday!!
>                                                          ^^^^^^^^
> 
> What is the significance of Thursday?  Did I miss an
> announcement of a ruling to be made or something?
> 
> Jim
> Go Cougars, Vikings, Northstars!

Do the words "Hobert" and "forfeit" mean anything to you?

I hope that doesn't happen.  I don't get the impression that the
infraction was that severe, and I'd hate to see something like
that happen to a great team that is still the class of the
greatest football conference in the solar system.  We are
proud of our team because we believe they beat the 2 best:
Miami and Washington.
--

Steve Matheson   Program in Neuroscience   University of Arizona
sfm@neurobio.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: chyang@simile.engin.umich.edu (Chung Hsiung Yang)
Subject: Re: WAR OVER!!!! MIAMI WINS !!!!!!
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 92 23:29:31 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: chyang@simile.engin.umich.edu


In article <dkm2.721180535@Isis.MsState.Edu>, dkm2@ra.msstate.edu (David K. Magee) writes:
> Well, it seems the dispute between Washington and Miami for #1 is now over.
> Arizona wins 16-3 over Washington and Miami will rightfully be the new
> undisputed #1 college team in the nation.  Flame on buddy, I don't care.
> 
> WASHINGTON LOST, nuff said!
> 
> David
> 

	Well, I agree.  Miami is #1.  The Huskies did not do what they
were supposed to do and deserved to lose the game because of all the 
mistakes.  Should the Husky fans make any excuses for that?  No!  The
team did not execute and made mistakes.   I will still cheer for them 
even if they are 0-100 or something.

	Flame on?  Nope.  The Husky fans have too much class for that! 

- Chung Yang
 
> 
> -- 
>                David K. Magee | "Mandrake! Get over here and feed me that  
>          MIS Graduate Student |  belt boy.  The Redcoats are coming! "
>  Mississippi State University |
>           dkm2@ra.msstate.edu |   -  General Jack Ripper, Dr. Strangelove 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: pfleming@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Patrick E Fleming)
Subject: Reality Check
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:35:19 GMT

Robert Szczerba whims:

>Ah Jason, it's great to see that Miami witt back on the net again.
>After you lose to Syracuse, I wonder if the CANES will have the guts
>to leave the friendly confines of the Orange Bowl and play the Irish
>in the Fiesta Bowl?

Repeat after me: it ain't gonna happen.  Even if Miami does lose to Syracuse, a
loss to a tep ten team will not (and should not) knock the Canes below the 
Irish in the AP Poll.  It will knock them out of the top spot, but only down to
about 5 or so which means that either they or Syracuse will be the team that
gets to play either Alabama or Texas A&M (or Nebraska, but I don't think that
will happen either.)

My guess (and check my record in the MAC to see just how predictive it really
is) is that Miami will drop a game but still end up matched with Alabama in the
Sugar, Notre Dame will play the Aggies in the Cotton and Syracuse will get
killed by Nebraska in the Orange.  That leaves something on the order of
Boston College-Florida State in the Fiesta.

     - Pat
-- 
- Patrick E. Fleming -------------------------------------------------------
- Department of Chemistry ---------------- It's raining, it's pouring ------
- Ohio Wesleyan University --------------- Your old man is snoring ---------
- pfleming@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu ---------------------------------------
From: andy@sunloop.Sun.COM (Andy Knipp SE Andersen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Trouble at the UDub
Date: 7 Nov 92 07:19:12 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: sunloop.central.sun.com

In article <1992Nov7.062427.14091@u.washington.edu> crs@stein.u.washington.edu (Cliff Slaughterbeck) writes:
>
>The guy who gave Hobert the loan is NOT a booster or an alum of the UW.  He
>is not affiliated with them in any way.  He may suffer from a very bad sense
>of judgement, but apparently, so does Hobert.
>

   <NCAA regulations deleted>..

I have seen no speculation that this guy could be an agent or a 
front man for an agent. That was my first thought when I saw the
articles.  I assume that the Seattle papers might have mentioned
this possibility ?


--
Andy Knipp                    |
Sun Microsystems              | The secret to success is sincerity,
Chicago Loop District         | once you can fake that,  you have it made.
andy@sunloop.central.sun.com  |
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Big8 questions
From: scott@mccall.com (Scott D. Davis)
Date: Mon,  9 Nov 1992 09:54:17 CST
Reply-To: scott@mccall.com (Scott D. Davis)
Organization: The McCall Pattern Co., Manhattan, KS, USA
Nntp-Posting-User: scott


In article <BxB5Jq.5w8@news.iastate.edu>, jbhuber@iastate.edu (Joseph B Huber) writes:
>(I suppose it is possible that your boss at McCall is a Big 8 fanatic
>and forces you to make the Big 8 report).

I wish, but not so.
>
>Now, were you one of those "fan"atics who decided to tear the goalpost down
>after the KSU-ISU game last night?
>
>I can't really understand why fans would tear goalposts down after beating 3-6
>Iowa State. What in the heck would happen if KSU defeated NU? The football
>stadium would probably come down like the Berlin Wall.
>
I wasn't one of them.  I was embarrassed they did it.  I liked Neb solution
to the goalpost situation....grease those poles.  And if KSU beats NU,
maybe they'll teardown Tokyo:-)
--
Scott D. Davis <scott@mccall.com>       The McCall Pattern Company
(uucp: ...!widener!depot!mccall!scott)	615 McCall Road
(800)255-2762, in Kansas (913)776-4041  Manhattan, KS 66502, USA
From: dporter@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Slartibartfast)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: What makes a team #1?
Date: 10 Nov 92 00:17:50 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

dbrown@newssun.med.miami.edu (Daniel Brown) writes:

This . . .

>With regards to this, we presently have three frontrunners 
>(in alphabetical order to avoid offending anyone):
>	Alabama 	(9 - 0)
>	Miami		(8 - 0)
>	Texas AM	(9 - 0)

. . . When combined with . . .

>Probably the next criterion is strength of schedule: beating
>tough teams is harder than beating easy teams.  This would
>be an easy, objective figure too -- just look at the 
>win-loss records of the teams' opponents.  Can somebody 

. . . leads to the question of how much is that schedule 
strength worth?  Is it worth a tie (Michigan...)?  Is it worth
a loss (FSU)?  I have always felt that a tie to a very good 
team is worth MUCH more than a win over an unimpressive team.
The pollsters seem to have a history of disagreeing with me
(See BYU/Washington 1984 and Colorado/Ga.Tech 1990).  

>I think these pollster people have to figure out a more
>appropriate of determing who is #1.  After all, winning a 
>national championship is about winning, not about which coast
>that team is from, how badly they beat everyone, and what
>bowl they played in, etc.  

A poll is a "sampling of opinion"--nothing more (although quite
often less...).   Is the "national championship" endorsed by the
NCAA (or, I guess it should be the CFA)?  I don't know... but I 
would be inclined to think it is not, but rather just sponsored
by the voting faction (but now that I think of the the USA today 
poll being the 'coaches poll' I guess that could be wrong).

The only way you are going to get a true national chamption is 
with a playoff of some sort.  I don't think it's necessary to 
have a champion. As much as I love the basketball tourney, the
bowl games have a flavor of their own and fans can say their 
team won their bowl game (or lost, but it was the ref's fault).
Don't worry about who's national champion, because it really
doesn't matter at all.  Let's say you're on Texas A&M and you
gon undefeated, but are rated 2nd behind Alabama.  Are you 
going to feel any less just because 60 people think they
are better than you?! Of course not (I would hope), you're 
going to feel good about your season and then get back to
work and start preparing for next year (heh).  That's what a 
fan should be able to do as well.

Just my 20 mills worth...

Doug
GO Jackets! Go Hokies!
-- 
Doug Porter                        |   "It had been necessary for him
Virginia Tech                      |    to swallow swords that he might
President, WiffleBall Football     |    have a better throat for
Association of Roswell             |    grapes" -- Stephen Crane
From: tomd@solbourne.com (Tom Diessner)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Colorado 7 - Nebraska 52
Date: 9 Nov 1992 10:16:11 -0700
Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc., Longmont, CO
Distribution: rec
NNTP-Posting-Host: durango.solbourne.com

In article <oexdC2S00iV04133Ip@andrew.cmu.edu> "Susan R. Wagner" <sw39+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Chris writes:
>
>>No pointing to Sal.
>
>That is really sick you know that.  Sal inspiring the Buffs in '89 was
>not dumb luck.  A young talanted human being died because of cancer and
>it effected people close to him. It effected the school, the fans and
>anyone who has ever had to battle a life threatening sickness.  
>
>We also happened to have a good team in 1989 and if we ever deserved a
>championship it was that year.
>
>Susan Wagner
>Colorado Buffalo fan in Pittsburgh, PA
>

This is the one issue that I have heard enough about. The only classless
fans that continualy bring up Sal's effect on the CU program are fans
in Nebraska. I haven't heard one comment or seen one sign poking fun at
an issue that is no laughing matter from any other school in the big 8 except
for Nebraska. I think this proves to me what a classless bunch live in Nebraska
and until I see otherwise, this just continues my indifference toward NU and
its fans. On the field NU whipped Colorado this year, next year, Colorado may
whip Nebraska, but I am sick of seeing signs and hearing comments about an issue
that has no place in athletics or to be used as a motivator. People in Colorado
and players on the Colorado team have never used Sal's death as a point for any
motivation, but the team wanted to try to win for Sal in his memory. Colorado
has a fine football program and will continue to win no matter what some classless
Nebraska people think.
-- 

Thomas Diessner | tomd@solbourne.COM | Solbourne Computer Inc. | Longmont, CO
				"GO BUFFS"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college