HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Jordan >= Magic && Bird
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:49:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BtpG6t.49E
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:

>Good point in some respects. DJ was a great player before he teamed up.  When
>he finally made it to Boston, he wasn't nearly the player he had been.  No
>more AllDefensive 1st teams, no more AllNBA teams, no more playoff MVPs, etc..
>His point production and steals went down with the Celtics, though his assists
>went up (with people like Bird, McHale, etc.. no wonder).   As for McHale
>helping Bird, in some ways, but remember that McHale may have been the 
>originator of the term "black hole".  He never passed out, even when double
>and triple teamed.  What made him great was that he still scored when double
>and triple teamed.

	DJ, IMHO, will be more remembered as a Celtic than as a Sun or even
	as a Sonic.  Sure, he was on a downswing when he joined the Celtics,
	but he was still an integral part of those championship teams.
	DJ was still a defensive gem, and I've never seen someone who was
	more on the money in the clutch than DJ.  A future Hall-of-Famer
	for sure.

	Jazzy J
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  "I am human and I need to be loved,            | Jazzy J                   |
|   just like everybody else does..." - The Smiths| jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Subject: Re: Jordan >= Magic && Bird
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 13:51:13 GMT
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <1992Aug26.232647.23645@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> rda455w@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (H. Nguyen) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.152443.5240@brtph560.bnr.ca> markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:
>>
>This is the best evaluation of the Jordan, Bird, Magic match-ups I have read so far.    Clearly Jordan has the best all round game in the NBA.   Jordan is not  the greatest player because he scores more.   If scoring was the issue then WiltChamberlins name would be metioned in the comparision, but he does not contend  with likes of Magic, Jordan and Bird as the motherfucker couldn't do too much   else but score.

Well, many people will disagree with Jordan having the best all-around game.
He does score and plays great defense, but is not nearly as good at passing
or rebounding as the other two.  As for Chamberlin, a guy who AVERAGED over
20rebounds a game, as well as over 4 1/2 assists per game, is doing a little
more than just scoring.  He lead the league in scoring and rebounding in 
5 seperate seasons.  He lead the league in rebounding and assists in another.
He may have been a man in a boy's league, but Wilt did it all on the court. 
Probably the only thing he didn't do was learn how to shoot free throws.

>No one ever said that Bird and Magic aren't great players, it's just that Jordanis better all round.   Even Magic and Larry have stated this.    From the       comparision table above, Jordan scores very high in every catorgory, while Larryand Magic will have a *slight* weakness in their game, namely defense.

When have Magic and Larry stated that Jordan wsa the better all-around player?
-- 
David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"
From: ronnie@uts.amdahl.com (Ronnie Townsend)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Bird, Jordan, Magic...
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:46:37 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Aug25.142708.9512@uwm.edu> paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger) writes:
>
>   I've stayed out of this nonsensical argument pretty long, but after reading
>   a couple of these posts I feel it necessary to respond. Anyone who thinks
>   that Jordan "mopped the floor with Bird" or that Bird got acclaim because
>   he was white is an IDIOT!          

Once again, I think you're oversimplifying. Bird got acclaim because he was good
*and* because he is white.  Anyone who lives in America and denies this has his
head ... well buried somewhere.. 

Bird has not ever, would not ever and will not ever be called upon to guard 
MJ in a game. He is not a good enough one-on-one defender to be equal to the 
task, though Jordan certainly has been called upon to take on Bird man-up. 
On that front Jordan is clearly superior.  He is also superior to Magic in that
sense. Basketball, is however, a team game and it doesn't matter if Michael 
outscores/outrebounds/outassists his man if his team loses... Period. 

>
>   Bird and Magic changed the game. Nobody got the best of Bird when he was in
>   his prime. With the exception of maybe Magic, Bird has been the greatest

I disagree with your first statement here. I watched John Drew light Larry up 
for 54 one night and I regularly saw Dr. J. take him to school. Later on, 
once Larry's defensive weaknesses were exposed, Pat Riley  would regularly
isolate James Worthy against him and use Worthy on defense against him and I 
dare say the Lakers got the better of that matchup. Not to flame or anything 
but Larry did eat his share of dust even in his prime. Everybody does in the 
NBA, the players are just too good. 

>   team player to play in the NBA in the past 20 years (since I've been
>   following the game) at least, if not forever. Unless you just started
>   following the NBA about 5 years ago, you couldn't forget all the incredible
>   passes, rebounds and in-your-face shots he made that turned around games.
>
>   The Celtics absolutely sucked when they drafted him and immediately became
>   a yearly contender for the championship afterward. Indiana State had no
>   tradition, no players, no nothing when he led them to an undefeated season
>   prior to the title game loss to a much superior Michigan State team. Indiana
>   State has also had nothing since then.

Don't get too carried away with this one... a nice run of upsets in their 
bracket left ISU a guilded path to the finals. Still, they played extremely 
well and *did* make it. But everybody knew Michigan State was going to roast 
them.  At least all the black kids around my neighborhood knew. ;-) 

>
>   I'm not a Celtics fan, but if you don't think Bird is one of the best players
>   to ever play this game, you haven't watched it.

I agree here... he was a special player. 


-- 
Ronnie
-------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not cynical... I just don't believe in anything....
From: zell@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Joseph Zell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Jordan >= Magic && Bird
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:50:46 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

rda455w@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (H. Nguyen) writes:

>In article <4218@3cpu.rain.com> edrury@.UUCP (Ed Drury) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug26.232647.23645@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> rda455w@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (H. Nguyen) writes:
>>>I want to put this comparison into another perspective. I was wondering If
>>>it was possible for any player to win all three events at the Allstar game
>>>(Three point shoot out, Dunk comp and Allstar MVP) ? 
>>
>> I don't know of a rule against it.
>>
>>>The only player who I could think, either in the past or present, would be
>>>Mike. He has already won the Dunk comp and Allstar MVP and come pretty close
>>>in the 3-point shoot out. I think this is one of the challenges he would
>>>like to win before he retires.

Sorry, but Mike didn't 'come pretty close' in the three point shoot out. He
had the lowest score of all eight players and was nicked out in the first
round. He only made something like 5 baskets.
-- 
zell@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu  *   Dammit, Jim, I'm a doctor, not a physician!
                       *           -Doctor McCoy, STVIII:The Retirement Home
CUBS WIN! CUBS WIN!    *               
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: jjonsson@alexandria.lib.utah.edu
Subject: Re: Utah Jazz
Organization: Marriott Library, University of Utah
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 18:08:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.145853.21223@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> timlin@spot.Colorado.EDU (Michael Timlin) writes:

>lej@pdn.paradyne.com (Leo James) writes:

>>In article <MedX=WG00awCMItkMM@andrew.cmu.edu> Daniel Reid Helsten <dh4w+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>>Does anyone out there have any info on the Jazz?  Their lineup?  How are
>>>they supposed to do this year?  It looks like the west will be more
>>>exiting than ever with Barkley on the Suns.  Now he and Malone can play
>>>each other twice as much.

>>No info, but a question.  Do you think that the refs let more contact
>>go on in the eastern conference than out west?  I think that they do.
>>If this is true, this could negatively affect Charles next season be-
>>cause he may find himself in foul trouble moreso than before.  I will
>>be interested in watching how this develops.

>Or he may draw fouls even faster than Malone.


It's totally foolish to think that the officiating is different. The same 
refs work both conferences all year long. IMHO of course.


Jeff Jonsson
Marriott Library System Support, University of Utah.
==============================================================================
--"It's the sound of the secret--  jjonsson@alexandria.lib.utah.edu
-- machinery at the center of  --  jjonsson@utahlib.bitnet
-- the world." -Cliff Steele   --  "You talkin' to me?"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami)
Subject: Re: Shaquille O'Neal interview
Organization: Brotherhood Of Breath
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:50:00 GMT

nelson@clunker.b21.ingr.com (nelson jordan) writes:
> Weren't the Pan Am games held in Cuba? As I recall, Shaq was very opposed to
>playing in a communist country. This was the reason he didn't play.


1. Stinking rich
2. Family values
3. Anti communist rhetoric (especially when it means taking the summer off)

Looks like the perfect running mate for Pat Buchanan.


--Gidi

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: nelson@clunker.b21.ingr.com (nelson jordan)
Subject: Re: Shaquille O'Neal interview
Organization: ^$
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 14:51:35 GMT

In article <5011@news.duke.edu> radkel@canctr.mc.duke.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.053957.28254@leland.Stanford.EDU>, terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong) writes:
>
>[stuff about classy stuff Shaq is doing deleted]
>  I'm impressed with Shaq's general attitude and team spirit.  His attitude,
>intelligence and humor will probably go over quite well with his team. 
> However......
>
>>About the Olympics, he said that he was very disappointed that he was not
>>selected for the Dream Team.  He said he was disappointed for himself, for
>>his family, and LSU.   He said that he definitely wants to be on the team
>>in 96, or the year 2000 if he does not make the 96 team.
>
> He has absolutely no right to whine about this!  If Shaq had made himself
>available for the world championships, Pan Am games, etc, when USA Basketball
>really needed him, then maybe he would have a case.  Laettner had put in his
>time, and deserved the slot.  Jimmy Jackson would have been another worthy
>choice.

 Weren't the Pan Am games held in Cuba? As I recall, Shaq was very opposed to
playing in a communist country. This was the reason he didn't play.

>
>--Rob Clough
From: radkel@canctr.mc.duke.edu (R.CLOUGH)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Bird, Jordan, Magic...
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:15:56 GMT
Reply-To: radkel@canctr.mc.duke.edu
Organization: Duke U. Med. Ctr., Durham, NC

In article <BtJpv6.4JH@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, dwarner@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (david j warner) writes:
>Maybe one of them could have made it without the other, but Bird would not have
>been a legend without Magic, and vice versa.  

Hmmm.  So is this why Jordan (micheal jordon is gad!) draws so much flack?
He doesn't seem to have a natural opponent to duel against, to inspire 
greatness in him.  And he to challenge the opponent.  This may be why some
tend to focus on Michael-as-super-athlete rather than Michael-the-overall-
player.  Perhaps a reborn Charles Barkley from the west could serve?

--Rob Clough
From: cpm@clyde.clearpoint.com (Chris Martel)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Bird, Jordan, Magic...
Date: 26 Aug 92 19:26:28 GMT
	<9dWq03vm6adW00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> <5113@dove.nist.gov>
	<1992Aug26.153029.12581@cci632.cci.com>
Reply-To: cpm@clyde.clearpoint.com
Organization: Clearpoint Research Corp, Hopkinton MA 01748

In article <1992Aug26.153029.12581@cci632.cci.com> dxj@cci632.cci.com (Dennis Joyce) writes:


>Bird vs Magic was the greatest rivalry. Magic would come down the court and drive the lane and put up a finger roll. Then Bird would come down Hit a big three.
>Magic would make a incredible pass and Bird would come down and make a no look
>pass. This would go on from the opening tip to the end of the game...


>Man those were finals...


I just wish the Lakers had not lost to Houston in the 86 Conf. finals. The
Celtics and their fans wanted nothing more than get revenge for the 85 loss 
at home to the Lakers in the finals. I still remember the 6th game of 86
finals between the Celtics and Rockets. Before the game the Boston crowd
was chanting BEAT LA BEAT LA even though they were playing the rockets. The 
fans felt the Celtics had to beat LA before winning it all. Pat Riley was 
in the booth when they were chanting this and said the Celtics would have 
to wait til next year to play the Lakers. He was right, they met one more 
time in the finals and LA won the rubber matchup.


Chris Martel			cpm@clyde.clearpoint.com
Clearpoint Research		cpm@cpoint.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: ortcm@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (thomas.mcguigan)
Subject: Re: Charlotte/Orlando
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:11:25 GMT

In article <BtuwEM.Mws@apollo.hp.com> stuart@apollo.hp.com (Stuart Troutman) writes:
>The Boston Sunday Globe NBA review (Jackie McMullan) indicates that there
>isn't a whole lot of harmony between Stanley Roberts and Shaquille O'Neal.
>Couple that with O'Neal's recent comment that he didn't want to play a 
>"twin towers" power forward role, and you have to get the impression that
>something may still be in the works for a Roberts trade (but probably NOT
>before the season begins). The fundamental hitch here is, of course, way
>too much money for most teams to consider.

I certainly haven't heard anything about any friction between O'Neal and
Roberts.  Interviews with both in the local paper indicate 1) they are friendly
off the court and 2) they are committed to supporting the team by doing their
best in whatever line-up Goukas has them playing .

That said, I don't believe that either one is very interested in playing twin
towers; it certainly would certainly force one of them out of his perfered
position (does anyone know who played the "PF" during the year they played
twin towers at LSU?).  This , however, is a long way from "there isn't a whole
lot of harmony between the two."

As far as any trades:  if Stanley really wants to move to a starting job 
on another team the opportunity is reportedly there.  The Magic are reporting
that six teams have made offers (no reports of team names).  Stanley, on the 
other hand, just purchased Sam Vincent's old house.  My guess:  Stanley wants
to play either in Dallas or Milwaukee and is willing to wait a year as Shaq's
backup to make that happen.

Tom@Orlando
From: wp01jst1@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (John Tomas)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Mike
Date: 28 Aug 92 21:20:38 GMT
Distribution: usa


How soon we forget: does anybody remember who the original "Mr. Clutch"
was?  Isn't this a pretty silly argument?  If it comes down to winning
games (whether by getting a big steal, making a big pass, getting a 
clutch rebound), I would think that all great players are about equal.
Certainly I've seen Bird and Magic do one of those things regularly.
I used to see Mike do them too, and I've also see him fail fairly
regularly in the final three minutes.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong)
Subject: Shaquille O'Neal interview
Keywords: Shaquille O'Neal
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 05:39:57 GMT

Things are pretty slow on B-ball front these days, so I thought I would
report on Shaquille O'Neals interview on ESPN radio this weekend.  Here are
a few of his paraphrased comments:

Shaq thought that Orlando would have to get rid of half of their team to
sign him.  However, he said that the other players on the team demonstrated
tremendous teamwork by redoing their contracts.  He said that if the team
could work together as well during the season, the Magic would be a good
team.  (I wonder what the other players thought of this kind of teamwork :).)

Shaq also said that he will be wearing No. 32 this year, instead of his
preferred 33.  He wanted to wear 33 because this is the number that Kareem had
and Patrick Ewing has.  However, a current member of the Magic already wears
33, so he defered to him, because he didn't want to make any waves.

Shaq says he is looking for a house in the Orlando area.  His goals are
very modest (esp. considering his $40 million contract).
The only things he wants are a couple of extra guest rooms and a pool.
He also says that he really likes Orlando, and it reminds him of San Antonio.

He said that he's looking forward to playing with former LSU teammate, Stanley
Roberts again.  However, he doesn't know how the Magic plan to use both of
them together.  He said that one thing he definitely does not want to do is
play power forward in a twin towers setup.

Shaq said that he is trying hard not to feel any extra pressure because of
his huge contract.  He said that he is going to play as hard as he can, but
that he can't do everything by himself.

He mentioned that he has just returned from the Pete Newell camp for big men.
He said he learned a lot of things that he did not learn in college, especially
low-post scoring moves.  He said that he worked on a fade-away hook shot.

Commenting on his poor free throw percentage, Shaq said that he feels 
it's just a matter of concentration.   He said that he went games where
he was 12 for 12 or 13 for 13, and that the other guys were calling him
Larry Bird on the free throw line.

About the Olympics, he said that he was very disappointed that he was not
selected for the Dream Team.  He said he was disappointed for himself, for
his family, and LSU.   He said that he definitely wants to be on the team
in 96, or the year 2000 if he does not make the 96 team.

					terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Subject: Re: thanks ed and dave
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 13:39:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <1992Aug26.231012.9902@EE.Stanford.EDU> mack@isl.Stanford.EDU (mack) writes:
>Folks, enjoy it while it lasts. Dave and Ed will go at it again soon.
>Maybe we should have a contest as to predict what the topic of their
>next flame war will be, huh?

Hey, even better..  How about a net.survey to PICK the topic of our next
flame war:-)
-- 
David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: stu1d46@bnr.ca (Reg Domaratzki)
Subject: Re: Mike
Reply-To: stu1d46@bnr.ca (Reg Domaratzki)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 14:37:55 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.152918.8233@uwm.edu>, rdesai@ee.uwm.edu (Rajiv Desai) writes:
|> What are all these fuss about Jordan, Bird and Magic? Sure they are all-time
|> greats. But when it comes to the game there is nobody better than Mike. How
|> many times the game is on line and ball in his hand and the whole world knows
|> what he is to do and opposition also know and still watch him destroy them.
|> This purely amazing.

What is all these fuss about Jordan, Bird and Magic? Sure they are all-time
greats. But when it comes to the game there is nobody better than Larry. How
many times the game is on line and ball in his hand and the whole world knows
what he is to do and opposition also know and still watch him destroy them.
This purely amazing.

What is all these fuss about Jordan, Bird and Magic? Sure they are all-time
greats. But when it comes to the game there is nobody better than Magic. How
many times the game is on line and ball in his hand and the whole world knows
what he is to do and opposition also know and still watch him destroy them.
This purely amazing.

:)

Reg Domaratzki      Waterloo Co-op Student working at BNR in Ottawa, Canada
  "The problem with the future is that it keeps turning into the present"
          - Hobbes
From: gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami)
Subject: Re: Shaquille O'Neal interview
Keywords: Shaquille O'Neal
Organization: Brotherhood Of Breath
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:50:53 GMT

terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong) writes:
>About the Olympics, he said that he was very disappointed [...]
>for himself, for his family, and LSU.
		      ^^^^^^

Another family values man.  How nice.


--Gidi
From: halpin@sw.stratus.com (Jim Halpin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Compiling List of Jordan Awards
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:09:45 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Sep1.145800.13706@cbnewsk.cb.att.com>, lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor) writes:
> In article <1992Sep01.125914.7775@brtph560.bnr.ca> markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:
> >82-83  o NCAA Player of the Year
> Can this be true? 82-83 was Ralphie's senior year. As far as I remember,
> Ralphie won all but one Player of the Year polls (including the Wooden
> Award), while Jordan won only one. 


	According to my TSN NBA Register, Sampson won POY in 1982. Jordan won
POY in 83 and 84.

-- 
!	Jim  Halpin
!	halpin@turkey.sw.stratus.com
!	Marlboro, MA
From: mack@isl.Stanford.EDU (mack)
Subject: Re: thanks ed and dave
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 23:10:12 GMT

lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor) writes:
>davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:
>>lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor) writes:
>>>
>>>Now, go ahead, I dare you not reply.
>>
>>There, I didn't reply... oopps...
>
>Oh, so you didn't reply to the claim that N=4, huh? Of course you didn't,
>because that's the truth. In other words, your claim that N=2 was another lie.
>
>Glad you straighten this out.

Alright, it seems that we now have our winner. Ed dared Dave to reply,
and when Dave did not, Ed wrote the above remarks to tempt Dave for
yet another return.

For Dave, it was difficult not to reply considering what Ed had
written. For Ed, it was hard as he checked the newsfeed every 15
minutes or so for a reply from Dave.

It's been a whole day, and there has been no reply from Dave.

So, in my eyes Dave is the winner as he has resisted the temtation to
reply and has spared the rest of us from yet another edition of
crossfire with Dave on the right and Ed on the left.

Folks, enjoy it while it lasts. Dave and Ed will go at it again soon.
Maybe we should have a contest as to predict what the topic of their
next flame war will be, huh?

>                                          Edward Lor
>                                          lor@cbnewsk.att.com

    --mack

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro