HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jchokey@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Alexander Chokey)
Subject: Re: Rush & Ayn Rand - HELP PLEASE
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 08:13:05 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.012106.24271@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> KAMCHAR@ibm.cl.msu.edu writes:
>
>     Before I let this continue to be more an exposure of my idiocy and
>ignorance, let me state that I do not believe for a moment that Peart
>explicitly meant to write an objectivist fairy tale with The Trees.

	Hmm.  Authorial intention is one of those things that's always 
difficult to assess, but what then do you think Peart was trying to do with
"The Trees"?  The song is written as if it were an allegory, and if one takes
it as a social allegory (which, IMHO, it is difficult not to do) the song's
surface message does seem to be rather staunchly objectivist.


>     Oftentimes themes will creep into one's topics, whether you want to write
>with themes or not.  Oftentimes I will note that over a period of time certain
>themes will pop out of my stuff that reflect what I'm wrestling with.  With a
>fairy tale especially, themes will hide themselves within two or three layers
>of fantasy, and multiple meanings can be read into the same line (or set of
>lines) depending on your viewpoint.

	Of course.  But that doesn't take away from the fact that "The
Trees" is so easily read (and usually _is_ read) as an objectivist 
parable.  The fact that objectivist ideology "creeps into" so many of Peart's 
early lyrics seems to me to testify to the great influence which it had on
his thought.  Perhaps "The Trees" and other of his early songs (like
"Something for Nothing") are not blatantly, explicitly, or intentionally 
objectivist, but they are clearly informed by Peart's Randian outlook. 
While Peart may not have _deliberately_ set out to write an objectivist fairy
tale, he ended up writing a song that, on at least one level of interpretation,
is just that.

>     Thankfully, Peart & company (outside of Anthem, of course) never
>explicitly used Objectivism as an explicit source of material.  That much
>contrived tripe we didn't have to suffer (and Anthem is listenable, IMHO)

	There was also "2112," but I see your point.  "Anthem" is polemical--
almost an objectivist manifesto--  while "2112" and "The Trees" are stories
with an objectivist theme/moral to them.
	Still, the fact of the matter is that objectivism did exert a strong
influence on the writing of many early Rush lyrics.  Sometimes, as in "Anthem"
it is direct and intentional.  More frequently, the influence is indirect 
("Something for Nothing") or unintentional "2112")--  but it is still quite
significant.  Regardless of whether or not Neil _intended_ these songs to be
objectivist, objectivist ideas and ideology did have a major influence on
their creation.

	--  Jim C. <jchokey@leland.stanford.edu>

Xref: sparky alt.music.rush:2797 comp.theory:1805 alt.revisionism:657 alt.fan.warlord:5686 alt.romance:10943 alt.stupidity:2568 alt.whine:663 rec.arts.disney:4276
From: csquared@coos.dartmouth.edu (C Squared)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush,comp.theory,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.warlord,alt.romance,alt.stupidity,alt.whine,rec.arts.disney
Subject: Re: A 5150 group!
Date: 23 Aug 92 18:18:47 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Originator: csquared@coos.dartmouth.edu

In article <p9t6ytINNhjc@lcor.usc.edu> rone@skat.usc.edu (5150) writes:
>Hey dudz, as I'm now net personality number one (eat shit and die Carasso,
>Kibo and you other weenie loosers), how about an alt.fan.5150 group on the
>net? What does everyone think? It'd be a scream. Maybe another one called
>alt.religion.5150ology as well? Whaddya think? Let's get this show on the
>road, fans!
>
How can you be a net personality when you hve _NO_ personality? 
I won't read it.

C Squared
From: slevine@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Steffan Levine)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Rush's Greatest Moment (was: Signals- how it fared in the poll
Date: 31 Aug 92 18:16:19 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio

In article <1992Aug31.144313.26004@Csli.Stanford.EDU> mmarx@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Matthew Marx) writes:
>what I'm interested in is:
>
>>Also, I agree with Power Windows and pearts drumming. Very good... also,
>>check out Hemispheres. Peart does some excellent stuff, with very different
>>styles on different tracks. Modern Drummer picked Peart's moving pictures
>>effort as one of the top 25 drumming albums ever.
>
>All true. My absolute favorite moment of Peart's drumming -- in fact,
>my favorite Rush Moment, so to speak, is the latter third of "Vital
>Signs" where Neil & Alex just rip into the last verse "Leave out the
>fiction/the fact is: this friction..." It's INCREDIBLE! Any other
>favorite moments out there?
>-- 

How about the entire Freewill solo.
From: brook@l42bb.jsc.nasa.gov (Mike)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Interview Part II
Summary: Powercuts
Date: 25 Aug 1992 18:37:22 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co.

In article <1992Aug24.173330.17343@Csli.Stanford.EDU> mmarx@Csli.Stanford.EDU
(Matthew Marx) writes:
>In <8c8uPB2w165w@eebbs.isis.org> ericm@eebbs.isis.org (Eric Mathurin) writes:
>
>>--- Radio seems to be a major player in your rising popularity (their 
>>latest single, "Gost Of A Chance", hit #1 on US rock radio).
>
>Is this TRUE??? I haven't really listened to radio stations avidly for five
>or six years, so I'm no longer up on the Casey Kasem Top 40 list. If
>anyone knows, please post!
>-- 

I would guess that Alex was talking about a top 40 done by a "power Cuts"
format....not a Casey Kasem.  It is the difference between "Rock" and 
"Pop"

mgb
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: jps4800@tamsun.tamu.edu (John Parrish Schweers)
Subject: Re: non-elevation
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:28:57 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.145334.27391@bmerh85.bnr.ca> jclarke@bnr.ca (John Clarke) writes:
>In article <QeYxicK00YV7M3R7Yu@andrew.cmu.edu>, John Michael Santore <jsbh+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>|> > 
>|> >	Speaking of VITAL SIGNS, i'm sure everyone's caught the subtle 
>|> >coolness of the end of that song, when Geddy sings "everybody's got to 
>|> >EVELATE from the norm .."
>|> > 
>|> I've noticed this a LONG time ago, but I never found any justification
>|> for it.  Claiming that Ged 'deviated from the norm' and deliberately
>|> misprounced Elevate is a little too far fetched to me.  No one seems to
>|> every have anything to say whenever I I bring it up either.  I find it
>|> hard to believe its accidental, specially since he says EVELATE live,
>|> but I can't find any real valid reason, unless Ged screwed up and
>|> accidentally made a spoonerism (Like when you say 'yuck foo' or
>|> something like that) like that, and just reproduced it live for
>|> consistency.... and why didn't they catch it on the album then.  Well if
>|> anyone has a valid reason (preferably confirmed) I would like to hear
>|> it.  
>
>Are you kidding?  It's a joke, son.  He's having fun.  Every lyric in 
>a Rush song does not need a deep meaning.  There's no underlying conspiracy
>to change the English language.  They do this all the time.  Check out
>Digital Man, Red Lenses, et al...
>
>
>John

I agree that it's a joke.   Just Rush's way of saying "Gotcha".
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: caruso@socrates.umd.edu (John Caruso)
Subject: Re: Kid Gloves
Organization: University of Maryland University College
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 04:29:22 GMT

In article <2SEP199215272434@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov> inthalw@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (Magnus) writes:
>I was wondering what everyone out there thinks about "Kid Gloves" on p/g. I 
>don't believe that I've even seen the song mentioned here in months. Is it 
>crap not worth mentioning or sublime enough to not need any discussion.

I consider it one of the better songs on p/g, which I also consider to
be one of the strongest of Rush's "modern" albums.  I enjoy the movement
and variety in the song--it's musically diverse and played with a lot of
energy.  Lyrically it's not the greatest (this was near the start of Neil's
"shiny happy people" phase, which he still hasn't shaken completely),
and it doesn't fit the overall tone of the album, but I like it regardless.

I play guitar, and this is one of my favorite Rush songs to play.  Alex
really moves around in this song, a lot of arpeggios and chord inversions,
and although the solo meanders a bit in the middle it ends up beautifully
(very similar to the ending of the solo in "Between the Wheels").  Overall
it's one of the strongest guitar songs on the album.

- John
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: PRAETHE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Ethan Evan Prater)
Subject: Jacob's Ladder question
Organization: Yale University
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 13:49:08 EDT

The final lyrics of "Jacob's Ladder" are the following:
 
   "Follow men's eyes as they look to the skies
    The shifting shafts of shining weave the fabric of their dreams."
 
I was wondering, what is the verb in that last line, or is it merely implied?
Is "shining" a noun doing the weaving, or does "weave" = "fabric"?  I favor the
latter, but I'm not sure.
 
This is really esoteric, I know, but does anyone have any insight?
 
Thanks (timidly),
Ethan
 
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: wraty@dvorak.amd.com (Bill Raty)
Subject: Re: Rush's Greatest Moment (was: Signals- how it fared in the poll
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 23:04:51 GMT

Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas Keywords:             YOu mentioned Vital Signs.......Geddy's bass playing during the last third
was phenominal....or at least the effect it had on me was!  :-{)}  
Did anyone happen to notice that he was playing a Fender Jazz Bass in the video?   I LOVE the sound out of that thing.....it makes the fur on my arms stand 
up!  Another great "moment" was from their "show of hands" video, when they
were playing "The Rhythm method", which in that context was an amalgam of 
YYZ and what was played on the album...Neil was just blowing me away with 
what he was doing-  I for one, was impressed......      
Bill   
....
 
Xref: sparky alt.music.rush:2800 comp.theory:1807 alt.revisionism:659 alt.fan.warlord:5691 alt.romance:10946 alt.stupidity:2570 alt.whine:665 rec.arts.disney:4280
From: rone@girtab.usc.edu (Ron Echeverri)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush,comp.theory,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.warlord,alt.romance,alt.stupidity,alt.whine,rec.arts.disney
Subject: Re: A 5150 group!
Date: 23 Aug 1992 14:45:59 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: inet
NNTP-Posting-Host: girtab.usc.edu

In article <p9t6ytINNhjc@lcor.usc.edu> rone@skat.usc.edu (5150) writes:
>Hey dudz, as I'm now net personality number one (eat shit and die Carasso,
>Kibo and you other weenie loosers), how about an alt.fan.5150 group on the
>net? What does everyone think? It'd be a scream. Maybe another one called
>alt.religion.5150ology as well? Whaddya think? Let's get this show on the
>road, fans!

Now, now.  I did NOT write this. It's an obvious forge (check out the
message ID, where the sucker misspelled "alcor").  I should applaud this
asshole as he manages to post these articles and somehow they never reach
USC.  But i won't.

If anyone still has the article in their spools, please send me the Path:
line.  Thanks and sorry for the immature assholes on the net who parade
as me.


5150

Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: jholtgra@afit.af.mil (Jeremy C. Holtgrave)
Subject: Re: Jacob's Ladder question
Organization: Air Force Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 19:58:33 GMT

In article <16852C254.PRAETHE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu> PRAETHE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Ethan Evan Prater) writes:
>The final lyrics of "Jacob's Ladder" are the following:
> 
>   "Follow men's eyes as they look to the skies
>    The shifting shafts of shining weave the fabric of their dreams."
> 
>I was wondering, what is the verb in that last line, or is it merely implied?
>Is "shining" a noun doing the weaving, or does "weave" = "fabric"?  I favor the
>latter, but I'm not sure.
> 
>This is really esoteric, I know, but does anyone have any insight?

I believe "shafts" is a noun and subject of the sentence.  "shining" is
the object of the preposition within the prepositional phrase.  And
finally, "weave" is the verb with "fabric" receiving the action of the
verb.  The final three words are another prepositional phrase.

My apologies to those who don't give a damn.

=====================jholtgra@scgraph.afit.af.mil==============================
Jeremy Holtgrave                          "Besides, we have more guns and bombs
Air Force Institute of Technology          than you."
Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: smills@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (MuffinHead)
Subject: Re: anybody know what this means?
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:39:16 GMT

RZAL90@email.sps.mot.com (Eric Johnson) writes:

>On several albums, the liner notes include something like:
>Brought to you by the letter "M"  (Power Windows)
>                             "D"  (Presto)
>                             "B"  (Roll The Bones)

>I'm just curious if anyone has ever heard if these mean anything, or 
>just an inside joke of some kind or?

   Clearly, they spell the word "mdb" which is "mud butt" with the vowels and
T's missing. Although "mud butt" LOOKS like English slang, it's actually
Navajo and means "I sat on my cake."
   Strange, but false.
From: slevine@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Steffan Levine)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Rush's Greatest Moment & Live/Recorded Moments
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:53:23 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio

In article <1992Sep02.183520.296@bnr.ca> albertr@crchh780.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Albert Reva) writes:
>People keep mentioning ESL, ATWAS, and ASOH; But how about their best live material that has never been "officially" release like the many bootlegs.  I have a few shows that would blow away anything that has been officially release..
>
>C'mon doesn't anyone out there collect Rush stuff???
>

I have a bootleg of the Hemispheres tour with some great live songs-
	All of Hemispheres, Spirit of Radio and Natural Science 
        which they presented to the crowd even before PW was released,
	Closer to the Heart, etc.  There is a store in the Village in
	NYC which specializes in all sorts of bootlegs.
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: ja51359@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (axelrod)
Subject: Re: Sound Production of Early Albums?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 18:01:19 GMT

feygin@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Alexander Feygin) writes:

>ja51359@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (axelrod) writes:
>} feygin@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Alexander Feygin) writes:
>} >irsman@iastate.edu (Ian Schmidt) writes:
>} >} [it's another one of THOSE rush fans...]
>} >} Au contraire...the sound quality on Rush albums just keeps getting better.
>} >} Moving Pictures was the first ADD album, and Power Windows the first DDD, 
>} >} unless you're buying the LP or something the sound gets audibly cleaner on
>} >} MP and the dynamics get a lot better on PW.  The improved technology allow
>} >} the boyz to express themselves better and more musically, and isn't that
>} >} what it's all about?
>} >Just bought GUP on CD yesterday and was NOT impressed with the
>} >sound quality.

>} Alex, you suck.  Your ears are made of horse droppings.

>Just for that you cant borrow it

Fine, then I'll steal it next time I come over.
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Rush & Ayn Rand - HELP PLEASE
Date: 1 Sep 92 21:00:29 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <1992Aug31.150603.2206@exu.ericsson.se> exumfs@exu.ericsson.se writes:
>In article 24579@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu, KAMCHAR@ibm.cl.msu.edu () writes:

>>     I would suggest that you check out the book "The New Left--The
>>Anti-Industrial Revolution" and read the chapter "Apollo vs Dionysis," then
>>listen to "Hemispheres" (the cut, althought the whole album is good).  Then ask
>>yourself--who would you rather pick on this-Rand or Rush.  I'm sure you'll
>>choose Rush on this matter.

>Hold on a minute... Hemishpheres is *extremely* "Randian."  Rand's books
>(and subsequent other Objectivist writers) are *full* of references to
>the "Mind-Body Dichotomy." 

>Objectivism's conclusion is much like Rush's: Heart and mind (emotion and logic)
>are inter-related and should be integrated together.

Inter-related perhaps, but the `integration' is hierarchical: the emotions
are to subjugated by the rational faculty.



Gregg

-- 
Gregg Jaeger    (jaeger@buphy.bu.edu)     | Tristero?   ______/|/|  Treestero?
Dept(s). of Physics (and Philosophy)      ------------    (_) \|\|  Trystero?
Boston University, 590 Commonwealth Ave.,Boston MA 02215 ---------------------
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Saturday, 29 Aug 1992 20:52:51 EDT
From: <MWEINTR@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: I save my BEST posts for alt.music.rush, and not NMS, you know..

Sorry, but some of my family, when looking at my Rush CD's, comment: "Jeez, he
looks JUST LIKE YOU, Mike (about Geddy)."

"I survived Hurricane Andrew and all I got was this lousy .sig file!"
---
Mike Weintraub   mweintr@auvm.american.edu   Solaris on IRC
The American University, Washington, DC, USA, Earth

"If some kind sould could please pick up my      "Do or do not, there is
 tab and while they are at it could please        no try." Yoda
 pick up my broken heart." MARILLION 'That
 Time of the Night' _Clutching at Straws_        "A constant vogue of
                                                  triumph dislocates man
"I know you're different, you know I'm the        so it seems" YES 'Close
 same" RUSH 'Second Nature' _Hold Your Fire_      to the Edge'
    ************* THIS SPACE FOR RENT *****************
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: jholtgra@afit.af.mil (Jeremy C. Holtgrave)
Subject: Re: Great Moments / Emotive Music
Organization: Air Force Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 23:38:47 GMT

Great Moments:  "A Lyrxst in Wonderland"...La Villa Strangiato

		That is, Alex's first guitar solo after the "Strangiato
		Theme".  Neil beating a syncopated 7/8 time, the synth
		(and bass at first) modulating between F and A.

		With no words Alex says so much during that part.


=====================jholtgra@scgraph.afit.af.mil==============================
Jeremy Holtgrave                          "An ounce of perception, 
Air Force Institute of Technology          A pound of obscure." 
Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio                            -Vital Signs 
==============================================================================
From: mjharris@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Kid Gloves
Date: 3 Sep 92 18:37:41 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1992Sep3.033949.28078@afit.af.mil>, jholtgra@afit.af.mil (Jeremy C. Holtgrave) writes:
>>I was wondering what everyone out there thinks about "Kid Gloves" on p/g. I 
>>don't believe that I've even seen the song mentioned here in months. Is it 
>>crap not worth mentioning or sublime enough to not need any discussion.
>>
>>I'm just curious. Perhaps later I'll give my opinion of it.
> 
> The only song off that album I really can't get into.  While it has all
> the parts, solid music and solid lyrics, I guess I just don't like the
> way it sounds.  Like whatever that song is after "Time Stand Still",
> "Open Secrets" I think.  
> 
> Aside:  I saw Rush twice on the RTB tour, once near the start in
> Cincinnati and again near the end in Dayton, OH.  They'd swapped a few
> songs, much to my delight.  Instead of "The Trees" they did "Vital
> Signs" and instead of "The Pass" they did, you guessed it, "Kid Gloves"


Well, I think Kid Gloves is one of the best songs they've ever recorded.
Its got a superb riff in 5/4 with one of Alex's rare really tasteful guitar
sounds, and an absolutely excellent guitar solo. For me, its a very memorable
song with a definite tune, something that's been a rarity I feel in the last
4 albums or so. 

Mark Harris
Dept of Physics
Oxford
UK
From: mcr1@quads.uchicago.edu (mark conley roller)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Signals- how it fared in the poll
Date: 27 Aug 92 13:27:10 GMT
Reply-To: mcr1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations


I was just curious what others think about Signals. Aside from the different
sound, Signals happens to be a really great album IMHO. From a bassist 
standpoint, Signals has some good stuff like Akid, Chem, Dman, etc.. 
But especially from a Drumming standpoint, Signals has to be one of Neil's
best efforts. From the beginning of Subdivisions when he does the bit
with the ride symbol and the high-hat at the same time, to the digital
man, which has a swing type beat, peart covers it all. All in all, a great
album. Alex also has some really great solos on hear, too bad the guitar
was mixed in rather poorly. Dman, Chem, Akid,  Weapon all have killer 
guitar work. 

> Alex is 39 today.
and keeps going, and going, and going, and going , and goin
(you could just picture a little figure of him with his guitar
going through all these different commercials like the little bunny from 
the battery commercials) :)

Happy B-day alex

Chris
From: jholtgra@afit.af.mil (Jeremy C. Holtgrave)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Rush's Greatest Moment & Live/Recorded Moments
Date: 2 Sep 92 20:35:47 GMT
Organization: Air Force Institute of Technology

>>   This has gotten me thinking of a new thread -- are there are other 
>>moments that sound a lot better in the recorded version, or live version, for
>>that matter?
>
>I think that ``Force Ten'' is very much better as it is played live --
>there is much more tension because of the subtle shifts of phrasing
>they give it live (not to mention the great weather-disaster video)...

Not to keep harping on La Villa Strangiato, but the version on ESL is
better than the studio version, IMHO.  Alex just wails during his first
solo part "A Lerxst in Wonderland".  Lots of emotion there.

I know the words are in the ESL album cover, but any idea what Geddy is
saying on those improvs?

=====================jholtgra@scgraph.afit.af.mil==============================
Jeremy Holtgrave                          "An ounce of perception, 
Air Force Institute of Technology          A pound of obscure."
Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: mmarx@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Matthew Marx)
Subject: Re: Kid Gloves
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 18:42:30 GMT

In <D40374W.92Sep3223340@kaira.hut.fi> d40374w@kaira.hut.fi (Tero Valkonen) writes:

>In article <2SEP199215272434@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov> inthalw@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (Magnus) writes:

>I think it's one of the best songs on the album. Musically and - especially -
>lyrically. The 5/4 rhythm is really nice and the guitar solo is totally 
>wicked. And the lyric, well, Neil proves again that he's quite a knowledge-
>able guy. Some of the lines would imply that he knows the history of the
>term "kid gloves" quite well. "Anger got bare knuckles" is the clearest
>indication of this. The funny thing about the lyric is that you don't have
>to know anything about the "kidding gloves" and the history of them, but
>if you do, it adds a whole new dimension. 

Could you fill us in on the history a bit?

-- 
Matt Marx     mmarx@csli.stanford.edu           
So many newsgroups, so little time...