HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mccabe@gdls.CSCTMD.COM (Harold McCabe)
Subject: Re: Effects of the U.S. Debt
Organization: Computer Sciences Corp. @ General Dynamics
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:53:12 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.052830.3539@cs.sfu.ca>, mcdonald@cs.sfu.ca (Ken Mcdonald) writes:
> 
> The problem of inherited wealth is particularly pernicious.  Consider
> a fortune of $100,000,000.  If invested prudently and carefully, the
> heir of such a fortune can live the life of the wealthy, and AT THE 
> SAME TIME, have their principal grow in REAL terms.  This is most

So what is the pernicious part here?  The fact that they live the life of the
wealthy?  Or that their principal grows in real terms?  If the former, then
it sounds like you are envious.  If the latter, then I guess many of us
have pernicious tendencies.

> emphatically NOT true for the average family.  Now, if all of these

Why not?  Many of us can make, and have been making, $10,000 increase in real
terms.  Do you think this phenomenon is limited to those with $100,000,000?
Generally, this phenomenon is found among those who plan ahead, and are
willing to take some risks.  Most people do not plan ahead, though.

> families with large fortunes all invest them prudently, and their
> real wealth keeps growing, we may have problem; because if their real

They will not *all* invest them prudently.  Wealthy people can make poor
decisions as well as middle class people.  And some people will waste
their wealth.

> wealth is growing faster than the country's real wealth is growing
> (and this is often the case, and has certainly been the case over
> the last decade), then that implies their wealth must be growing
> at the expense of other.  If the process continues unchecked, the
> end result is the emergence of an aristocracy and a serf class.
> Not a good thing.
> 
> Personally, I favour a really agressive inheritance tax.  The first
> $200,000 tax-free, the next $300,000 taxed at 20%, the next $500,000
> at 35%, and so forth.  Anything over $10,000,000 to be taxed at
> 90-95%.  The children of the wealthy will still be able to lead
> comfortable lives on the money they inherit, the danger of an inherited
> aristocracy will largely disappear, and the proceeds would make a nice
> dent in the federal debt.

I view any attempt to tax estates as a direct attack on the nuclear family.
I resent any attempt by the state to undermine the ethics and world-view
I transmit to my children.  I similarly resent any attempt by the state
to undermine the fruits of my labors that I desire to transmit to my
children.
> 
> Well, just dreaming, I guess . . .
> 
Sounds more like a nightmare to me

Harold McCabe
From: bd@fluent@dartmouth.EDU (Brice Dowaliby)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Short selling - can someone explain it?
Date: 2 Oct 92 12:22:21 GMT
Reply-To: bd%fluent@dartmouth.EDU
Distribution: usa
Organization: Fluent Inc., Lebanon NH

bd@fluent@dartmouth.EDU (Brice Dowaliby) writes:

>Exactly what is short selling?  I don't
>understand much about how the stock market 
>works, and for the life of me I don't understand
>how someone can make money on a stock going down.

Okay, I think I understand how it works now.  Example follows.

A broker is sitting on 1,000 shares of IBM for a client.  The
price is $80/share.

You make a deal with the broker whereby he "lends" you the
stock (with your putting up collateral, of course) and then
you sell the stock for $80,000.

The stock goes down in price, say to $70.00 per share.

You buy back the thousand shares you sold, trade them back to the
bnroker for your collateral, and you're up $10,000 by selling at
$80 per share and bying back at $70 per share.

Of course if the stock goes up instead of down, you're screwed
because you still have to buy the thousand shares to complete the 
trade with the broker.

Does that sound right?

-- 
   Brice Dowaliby, Fluent Inc., 10 Cavendish Court, Lebanon, NH  03766
                         bd%fluent@dartmouth.edu        
             I don't speak for them, they don't speak for me
                              DoD # 0698
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible)
Subject: Re:      Re: Effects of U.S. national debt
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:27:53 GMT

In article <9209302356.AA18495@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com> GCTHORNE@idbsu.idbsu.edu (Broward Horne) writes:
>Newsgroups: misc.invest
>Path: idbsu!guinness!mica.inel.gov!pmafire!uunet!odi!ed
>From: ed@odi.com (Ed Schwalenberg)
>Subject: Re: Effects of U.S. national debt
>In-Reply-To: jordan@IMSI.COM's message of 24 Sep 92 21:28:51 GMT
>Message-ID: <1992Sep30.172541.6163@odi.com>
>Organization: Object Design, Inc.
>References: <22208@optima.cs.arizona.edu> <5171@bacon.IMSI.COM>
>Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 17:25:41 GMT
>Lines: 25
>
>>Read the Forbes 400 Richest People in America issue; this year's issue
>>is due out soon.  One of the most interesting commentaries is that of
>>the 400, at most one or two derive their riches primarily from the
>>stock market.  The vast majority of really rich people and families
>>are the largest owners of, and actively manage, large businesses like
>>Wal-Mart, Microsoft, Reebok, Mars, etc.  Passive investors (long or
>>short) don't get really wealthy.
>
>           Not true.  All the above examples, as well as Hewlett and
>   Packard, Intel dudes, etc ALL are wealthy due to their STOCK
>   holdings in their own companies.  While passive investors may not
>   get wealthy, it is equally true that the great majority of "wealth"
>   in this country is derived from stock ownership.  Thus, a market
>   crash would serve to effectively redistribute wealth more equitably.
>

	I think that's what he said.

Regards,
tony
From: mcaldon@igc.apc.org (McAldon International Inc.)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Effects of U.S. national debt (
Date: 3 Oct 92 04:26:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:21SEP199209041444@ariel.lerc.nas:-2032734113:cdp:1426500274:000:701
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!mcaldon    Oct  2 21:26:00 1992


|My hope would be resource stability, rather than collapse. 0 population growth
|(quite a trick if we manage to extend lifespans greatly) and economic growth
|based on adding value to a fixed supply of resources which are recycled.
|Adding value is becoming more important all the time, look at how much the
|value of some sand and hydrocarbons is increased by making it into a computer.
|Brian Rauchfuss (Smokefoot)  "... the world could change in the blink

This type of sane approach could certainly postpone my threatened "collapse."
Well said.  DMcKenzie

|    mcaldon@igc.org     | Opinions dispensed herein not guaranteed |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: koziarz@chinet.chi.il.us (Louis Koziarz)
Subject: Re: NBR in chicago??
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 20:54:44 GMT

If (NBR = Nightly Business Report)
	then Channel 11 (WTTW-PBS), 5:30 p.m. Mon-Fri.

Cheers,
-- 
Louis Koziarz
koziarz@chinet.chi.il.us
From: pb00+@andrew.cmu.edu (Peter B. Behrens)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: DRIP's
Date: 5 Oct 92 10:53:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.Meo8wWC00YUnQlIKwd
Organization: Masters student, Architecture, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I saw an ad on CNBC for a "Guide to Dividend Reinvestment Plans" which
supposedly lists over a one hundred companies that offer DRIP's.  I
haven't seen the booklet and I am not affiliated with the company making
the offer, so _FYI_only_:  call 800-443-6900 give them $9.00 (charge to
Master Card or Visa) and they will send you the DRIP's booklet and a
copy of a newsletter called the Money Paper.  (They will probably make
you a subscription offer when you call.)

Peter Behrens
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: mramesh@cbnewse.cb.att.com (m.ramesh)
Subject: shorting in these bad times?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 18:08:02 GMT
Keywords: short stocks, options

I have seen a lot of posting for going long on stocks.  Could somone out there
post a list of industris and/or stocks whcih may be shorted nw.  i
tried shorting MRK at 42 3/8 but was stopped out at 43.

How about options? Recommendations?


Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: richk@tera.com (Richard Korry)
Subject: Re: High-return (risky?) opportunity
Organization: Tera Computer Company, Seattle, WA
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:52:28 GMT

In article <Bv46Lw.2J5@fc.sde.hp.com> fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz) writes:
> ...
>However:  he needs startup capital.  Due to 2 "disastrous divorces",
>his personal financial situation is tight.  He can't sign for a loan
>to start a venture like this.  He's looking for an investor (or group)
>who would be willing to help him through the startup phase.
>
>Here's the deal:  he needs $12,500 to cover radio time and a few other
>expenses.  He says he will "guarantee" AT LEAST a *100% RETURN* on the
>$12.5k investment.  
> ...
-- I wonder if this "guarantee" is anything like his vows at his wedding(s).
1/2 :-) 
	richard
From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Inventions upon demand
Date: 5 Oct 92 15:45:36 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.


 
In article <BvGEn8.H7v@world.std.com> rsilver@world.std.com (Richard
Silver) writes:

>We are an exceedingly productive group of professional inventors in
>the Boston area...
> [rest of long, stupid ad deleted]

>Dr. Richard Silver
>Box 548
>Lexington, MA 02173

>>Okay, folks, this is at least the third time this has been posted.
>>"Dr." Silver has been informed by e-mail of the inappropriateness 
>>of such advertising. Let 'im have it! (I leave it to your 
>>discretion to decide what "it" is. Keep it moral and legal.)

Is there a newsgroup like alt.ads.readme? It seems unfair that we have this
form 
of communication & no where to post ads such as these. Is there a specific
FAQ that specifically denies the right to post ads or is this just a
unspoken pet peeve rule?

If there is nowhere to post these types of things , I think there should
be.

Lemme know what you all think.

Thanks,
Rod



-- 
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
From: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com ()
Subject: DJI Component History wanted
Originator: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com
Reply-To: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com ()
Organization: TRW Space & Defense
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:29:29 GMT

Title says it all.  I'd like to know what stocks were in the DJI for the
last 20 years or so.  Suggestions?  I know some of the changes are given
in the book "Beating the DOW".

-- 
Maurice Suhre
suhre@trwrb.dsd.trw.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: jurso@node11.ips.iacd.honeywell.com (Jason Urso)
Subject: Uncovered Call Writing
Organization: Honeywell Industrial Automation & Control
Distribution: misc.invest
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 18:23:57 GMT

Has anyone tried uncovered call writing?

I understand that 80% of all out of the money options expire worthless.  If
this is the case, there is a great deal of money to be made by writing calls.
Two disadvantages that I see:

1) Large margin requirements.  

2) Unlimited loss potential. (A stock could go up forever)

If you limit your loss on the losing trades it seems call writing can be a 
consistant winner.  Anyone have other information or trading experience to 
add?


Jason Urso
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: pav@masc.rice.edu (Phuong Vu)
Subject: *** WealthBuilder - PC version; $40 or best offer ***
Organization: Dept. of Math. Sciences, Rice University
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 12:33:38 GMT


*** WealthBuilder - PC version; $40 or best offer ***

PC version of WealthBuilder by Money Magazine latest version 1.12
only $40 + shipping or best offer.  New but already registered.

If you are interested please drop me a note.

   Phuong Vu
   pav@rice.edu
From: rauchfuss@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Brian Rauchfuss)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:05:15 GMT
Subject: Re: New Treasury Bill Auction system
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: misc.invest

In misc.invest, ioguo@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (OA Guo) writes:

> 	The real difference is on the strategy of bidding, since there is no
> 	penality on underbidding (on the interest) in the new system, you
> 	can go ahead and bid 0% and still get whatever the best rate in
> 	the final bids.  

Unless too many people bid this price, then the government gets money for free!
This must be what they are hoping for, it seems a like an foolish strategy.

BDR
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: greg@cherokee.b32b.ingr.com (Greg Moritz)
Subject: Re:  Effects of the U.S. Debt
Reply-To: greg@cherokee.b23b.ingr.com (Greg Moritz)
Organization: Dazix, An Intergraph Company
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 20:30:28 GMT

GCTHORNE@idbsu.idbsu.edu ("Broward "The Stick in The Mud" Horne") wrote:

> Tell me.  What is the difference between an economy where:
> 
>   a)  5 % of the population own everything, and is called capitalism
>       and                       ^^^^^^^^^^
>   b)  5 % of the population own everything, and is called communism?

With all our inefficiencies and inequities, our capitalistic system *has*
proven to be a superior generator of wealth than communistic systems.

The US GNP is about    $5,000,000,000,000.  The GNP of the Soviet Union
before it was dissolved  $250,000,000,000.  (Of course, in the interest
of a large national defense budget,  the CIA regularly estimated a  GNP
for the former USSR of about 60% of the US, not allowing for quality of
goods, etc.)  The US has about 250 million people, 
             the former USSR - 265 million.
Answer:

   The latest figures that I saw for the distribution of income
   in the US was:

       41% for the top  20% of the population
       25% for the next 20% of the population
       20% for the next 20% of the population
       12% for the next 20% of the population
        5% for the next 20% of the population
    
   Of course, when you say "everything" you are using hyperbole
   here.  What you mean is, perhaps, 'a percentage of the wealth
   out of proportion to their numbers...' true?

   So, assuming that the former USSR had the same distribution of
   income as the US does (it's probably not that good), then the
   GNP / population   for the bottom 20% is - - -

      $250 billion / 50 million = $5,000 for the US   citizen
      $ 13 billion / 53 million = $  235 for the USSR citizen

      +---------+ 
      | $ 4,765 | -> is the answer to your question (sort - of).
      +---------+ 
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: edwardz@ecs.comm.mot.com (Edward Zhong)
Subject: Re: Motorola?
Organization: trunking_fixed
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 22:12:14 GMT

In article <1426500273@igc.apc.org> mcaldon@igc.apc.org (McAldon International Inc.) writes:
>
>|What do people think about the long term financial prospects of  
>|Motorola?
>|br
>
>For what it's worth, IMHO Motorola could be THE growth stock of the
>next 20 years. I'm waiting for a down market to buy.  DMcKenzie
>
>|    mcaldon@igc.org     | Opinions dispensed herein not guaranteed |
>|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

agreed. i'm sure that you will have a chance to buy in at ~$70/sh if
you wait. however, motorola is too big to grow fast; so MOT is not the
aggressive-buy-anytime stock. same thing true for HP, and now HP is close
to the buy point at $52. my buy target on HP is $45.


-- 
=================================================================================
Ed Zhong, Motorola Inc. (LMPS)      |  my money works for me;
edwardz@ecs.comm.mot.com            |  i work to make my money work for me.
From: sasha@ra.cs.umb.edu (Alexander Chislenko)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Buying options - what's the price?
Date: 26 Sep 92 05:24:57 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston, Dept of Math and CS
   Can anybody explain me please: what is the price that I can sell an option


				< confused >	Alex.

  Thanks.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: gordo@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Gordon C. Smith)
Subject: Variable-rate credit cards -- general question.
Summary: Are these things a good deal... or not?
Organization: University of Hawaii at Manoa
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 21:42:52 GMT

   Pleae forgive me if this has been discussed before...

What is the general consensus on variable rate credit cards?

I have before me info on several:

Fidelity Trust:  "prime rate" plus 7.5%.   Calculated qtrly.

U.S. Bank of Oregon:  "prime rate" plus 9.4%. Also qtrly.

Quickens new card: "prime rate" plus 8.75%  Calculated monthly.

I would like to know if these are not a good idea and if I should stick to 
a nonvariable rate card. Any thoughts would be appreciated, E-MAIL please.

THANK YOU,

Gordon Smith
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: edwardz@ecs.comm.mot.com (Edward Zhong)
Subject: Re: Short selling - can someone explain it?
Organization: trunking_fixed
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 22:22:36 GMT

In article <Dmerrill-021092101847@47.140.3.192> Dmerrill@bnr.ca (Dana Merrill) writes:
>In article <1992Oct1.213027.10060@cbnews.cb.att.com>, ask@cbnews.cb.att.com
>(Arthur S. Kamlet) wrote:
>> If you don't happen to own any, but sell it anyway, your broker will
>> be happy to work out some financial arrangements, loans, etc, to let
>> you do that.  The broker will want some form of collateral, like
>> cash or other stocks in your account, but if you meet those
>> requirements, he will sell stock for you that you didn't ever own.
>> 
>> That's called selling short.
>> 
>> One day you will close out that transaction - in effect,
>> repurchasing that stock.   If you were right, and the stock really
>> went down, you will pay less to buy it back than you received when
>> you sold it.  So you might make money.  In the meantime, you have to
>> pay interest on the money loaned to you, and if the stock paid
>
>Wait a minute!  I borrow and then sell 100 shares of XYZ Corp @ $10/share.
>Seems that I now have $1000 in my account (ignoring commisions of course)
>and I owe someone (the brokerage "street name" stock pool?) 100 shares of
>XYZ. Who do I owe interest, and in fact shouldn't I be receiving interest
>on the $1000 now in my account?

no. you don't receive interest on the $1000. before you berrow the $1000
from the broker, you need to have $1000 as the collatreral. if don't have
quite $1000, the broker can loan you some money (mix $500 in this case), 
you need to pay interest on the broker loan.

>
>I can imagine some answers here (all good for the brokerage bottom line)
>but  instead of speculate I will wait for someone who knows to reply!
>-Thanks
>
it is easy to guess.
>


-- 
=================================================================================
Ed Zhong, Motorola Inc. (LMPS)      |  my money works for me;
edwardz@ecs.comm.mot.com            |  i work to make my money work for me.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: gilman@cshl.org (Michael Gilman)
Subject: Thomson Opportunity Funds
Followup-To: misc.invest
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:00:00 GMT

The Thomson Opportunity fund is a highly-rated small-cap stock fund. The
Thomson funds have an unusual feature, however. You can purchase shares in
two different ways. Class A shares have a front-end load (I forget how
much). Class B shares have a declining back-end load. But, in addition, the
12b-1 fees differ: Class B shares incur a higher fee. Consequently,
although the funds maintain indentical portfolios, the N.A.V. of class B
shares is lower, due to the deduction of the extra 12b-1 expenses.

The prospectus goes to great lengths to argue that for the long-haul
investor, it makes more sense to pay the load, i.e. buy the A shares,
because eventually the increased 12b-1 expenses will outweigh the load. I
am sure they are correct in principle, but I still cringe at the idea of
paying the load just to get in.

Any wisdom on the net regarding this choice? Or should I vote with my feet
and go to a similar fund without these charges? It seems, however, that
most of the small-cap funds have 12b-1 fees. Suggestions?

Thanks to all.

Michael Gilman
gilman@cshl.org
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: hweingra@.com (Howard Weingram)
Subject: Re: W.S.W. of 9/18 Question of Peter Lynch
Reply-To: hweingra@oracle.UUCP (Howard Weingram)
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 00:52:16 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Sep21.160709.9240@inel.gov> whg@INEL.GOV (William H. Gray) writes:
>In article <1992Sep19.214641.9958@news.Hawaii.Edu>,
> bill@gaza.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (William J. King) writes:
>|> 
>|> For those of you that saw WSW 9/18, and hte interview of Peter Lynch....
>|> did anyone catch the name of the NASDAC company (with the french name)
>|> that Lynch thought was a good buy?    
>
>Au bon Pain (I would guess it's something to do with bread)
>

It's a nationwide (or at least SF and Boston) cafe/bakery sort
of place. It tends to be found in places like Harvard Square,
but also has stores at places with "captive customers" like
train stations and airports. The food's okay. I always thought
the place was a low-end yuppie hangout. It sells lots of
croissants, sandwiches (the French bread's pretty good), fresh-
squeezed OJ, that sort of thing. 
Kinda expensive for simple fare, but it tastes a lot better
than McDonald's.

Its full name is Au Bon Pain -- the French Bakery Cafe.

Hope this helps.
				hal

From: mmoore@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Mike Moore)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 20:28:22 GMT
Subject: Re: Personal Computer trading.
Organization: Hewlett Packard
Newsgroups: misc.invest

  / hpcc01:misc.invest / gadi@cs.uiuc.edu (Gadi Friedman) / 10:24 am  Sep 29, 1992 /
  Does anyone have experience with stock trading using a PC?

Yes, many brokers offer it.  

  What system do you use, and what hardware does it require?

Quick and Reilly offers a service accessible by modem by calling
directly or going through Compuserve.

  How do the rates compare with that of discount brokerages?

Most discount brokers prefer electronic trades (less man-power req.),
so many will give additional discounts if you use computers.

  Can I buy 1 share?

Call a broker for more info... the minimum commission could eat you alive.

  Can I put a stop loss order?, 

Yes.

  Can I register the securities under my name? 

Yes.

  If I have the certificates at home, can I sell them via the computer?

Not sure...

  Can I trade options? futures?

Yes, but the broker will req. a special form to be filled out for
options and futures.  Do you research before getting into futures!!! 

  Is there anything I should know about these systems??

Many systems req. a per-minute access charge.  With compuserve, you
have their fees on top of them.

Mike Moore