From: rajesh@juniper (Rajesh Raman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Pakistan is Lilbit different
Date: 31 Dec 1992 00:46:08 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Distribution: soc
NNTP-Posting-Host: juniper.wpi.edu
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faraz rabbani (faraz.rabbani@canrem.com) wrote:
: 
: You mentioned neo-nazis.  So I say that DO Jews go en masse to
: Germany and "take" justice from the German people for what was done
: to Jews during the Holocaust?  Similarly, tearing down a mosque 450
: years later makes no sense.  The Spaniards don't tear down the
: Moors' mosques as a response to some alleged Moor atrocities...

  Thanks. Now I get the connection. That's right you can't do that kind
  of thing.

:  RR> Correct. Faraz I know that you cannot justify the death of even
:  RR> one person by saying that it had to be done so it was done. But how
:  RR> do you make Muslims acknowledge that what their kings did some years
:  RR> ago wasn't correct and you shouldn't glorify those people and be
:  RR> blind to what happened? Because if that doesn't happen the same
:  RR> tensions are going to remain. That is the crux of the problem. But
:  RR> doing what was done (destruction of the mosque & the killing) is no
:  RR> solution. 
: 
: Well...  My *personal* view is that I DO NOT consider "majestic"
: rulers to be all that "great".  Sure, they (Romans, Greeks,
: Egyptians, Moghuls, Brits, Nazi Germany,...) built huge monuments
: and lived in luxury.  But to me a very important measure of
: greatness of rulers is how the masses lived.  The Moghuls *did* a
: lot for the subcontinent, though they *did* commit many wrongs.

  Thanks that's all that I wanted. 

: 
:  RR> And you forgot to reply to my poser on how to decide when a demand
:  RR> for secession was legit and when it wasn't.
: 
: To that I have no reply.  Legitimacy depends on point of view.
: Surely, the now-110 million Pakistanis and 120 million BenglaDeshis
: prefer independance to being part of "India".  For most Muslims, the
: thought of living under a non-Muslim majority is not a good
: prospect; as a situation of Muslim majority/dominance is not a good
: prospect for Hindus.

  That is not what I'm disputing. Sometimes secessionist movements are
  born out of sustained propaganda and sometimes out of the genuine 
  aspirations of the people of that region. OK you're a muslim and I am
  a hindu. Do we have any problems with each other? But our two
  communities keep telling us that the other side is bad and devilish.
  Now this could be the result of sustained propaganda. Maybe, maybe
  not. But the fact is that we could easily live with each other. There
  could be small problems that crop up from time to time. When two
  Hindus fight we attribute it to their being immature or bad or
  whatever. But if one of them happened to be Muslim we would say "Hey!
  No wonder! Muslims are all vermin." You see this attitude is to be
  rooted out. And I'm afraid that educated people don't seem to realise
  that. Why not take a person for what he/she is instead of bringing his
  /her language or uncle or religion or the size of his butt in ?! That's
  what happened when pre-partition India got divided. Hate propaganda
  started getting floated around. And this is what happened. Hey if
  you and I don't have any problems with each other I don't see why we
  need to live in two different countries. The need arises only if we
  can't live peacefully. And the lie that we cannot live peacefully was
  fed to us by some leaders.   

  We spend so much money on our armed forces.

  OK. Let's take Pakistan for example. You're all Muslim. Is there peace
  in your country ? No. You see, villains will always find some
  scapegoat or the other to create havoc. They thrive on it. 


: 
: I, for one, hope that (sometime in the future) the subcontinent may
: one day be able to build stronger economic ties.  With these is
: bound to come the realisation that we are very similar and CAN
: coexist. 

  Sure. 

--

Rajesh Raman

--

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan