HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner)
Subject: Re: Shaolin Temple
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 18 Aug 92 13:09:13 CDT

In article <9208172130.AA10167@adelphi-assb01.army.mil> @adelphi-msc.army.mil:chang@assb01 writes:
>
>        G'day all, I'm a week back from my 40 day asian vacation (mostly
>China) and I've got something shiny for Ms. Radner (coz she asked me, I
>posted requests for things from asia before I left and only doug and lauren
>replied).

Everbody, please forgive this use of the net, but my attempt to return
private e-mail bounced.

Thanks for thinking of me,! How much do I owe you? I am going to
Japan tomorrow for 2 1/2 weeks (sorry I can't make a similar offer
to bring back requests, but this trip is a business trip with a
packed schedule).

thanks,
-Lauren
















Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: krystek@alcor.bms.com (Stanley Krystek)
Subject: Re: Book Reccomendations
Organization: Bristol-Myers Squibb, Macromolecular Modeling
	<Bt39J5.3K7@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 21:43:20 GMT

In article <Bt39J5.3K7@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:

>   The best book I've seen yet (My bibliography is up to 140 pages long,
>   with 10 citations per page) is John Corcoran and Emil Farkas's
>   "Martial Arts:  History, Traditions, People."  It is out of print now

>   Dakin
>   burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu


I strongly agree, I picked it up for about $10 at a bookstore closeout two 
years ago.  It might be alittle outdated, but it is a favorite of my students
as they research people and histories in martial arts.  It is a must for 
any martial arts library.

stan


--
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>==*==<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<>                                                                           <>
<>     .-----.      Stanley R. Krystek, Jr., Ph.D.               .-----.     <>
<>    / \   / \     Bristol-Myers Squibb Pharmaceutical         / \   / \    <>
<>   /   \ /   \    Research Institute                         /   \ /   \   <>
<>   ----- -----    Department of Macromolecular Modeling      ----- -----   <>
<>   \   / \   /    P.O. Box 4000    Room H.3812               \   / \   /   <>
<>    \ /   \ /     Princeton, N.J.  08543-4000                 \ /   \ /    <>
<>     `-----'                                                   `-----'     <>
<>                  (609) 252-4100  FAX: (609) 252-6030                      <>
<>                  INTERNET:  krystek@bms.com                               <>
<>                                                                           <>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>==*==<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
From: guest@shappy.austin.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Rats?? C'mon people....
Date: 19 Aug 92 22:07:32 GMT
Reply-To: guest@shappy.austin.ibm.com ()
Organization: IBM Austin, TX

look, let's get real here.  Rats may at times make great
pets, but this is the exception, not the rule.  When I was
much younger (about 11) my father was stationed at 
Kadena afb in okinawa, japan.  I was simply playing
in the backyard of my home when I was charged by a
jungle rat.  I was not as fortunate as either of 
the two main participants on this thread, in that the
rat *did* jump to my body but *did not* just sit there.
that rat was a good foot long (although it seemed                       
                              *much* larger) and started to tear the
hell out of me
(I still carry scars on my face, neck, and upper chest).

needless to say, I was subjected to a bevy of injections 
after the wounds had been sewed up, and these weren't 
any more pleaseant that the original attack:)

the point is this: let's get a little real here. lauren 
loves animals- that's fine, I don't hate them, and neither
do I hate rats.  However, when one of these animals charge
you, you have two choices: (1) let the rat charge, assuming
that it wants only to stare into your eyes and play, or (2)
defend yourself from a creature with some really sharp
teeth and a mouthful of nasty micro-organisms.  after my 
experience, I would choose the second every time.

P.S. when I say rats are rarely good pets, I am referring to 
your standard jungle/sewer/city type rat.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: lauren@bushmill.eecs.umich.edu (Brian T. Murray)
Subject: Re: Rats and Martial Arts
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:53:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.203024.29488@sei.cmu.edu>, Peter Capell writes:

>Now of course if Stephen were a Hindu (better still a yogi) he would
>understand that the best way to deal with the attack is to understand the
>opponent fully.  Actually, funnin' aside, I think this is exactly why

Why not a saint?

>There is a story in Paramahansa Yogananda's book, "Autobiography of a Yogi"
>about his teacher, Sri Yukteswar.  One day Sri Y. and some of the students
>encounter a cobra on the path.  The students were frantic, because cobras
>account for a substantial number of deaths in India.  Sri Yukteswar's approach
>was quite different.  He began a slow waving dance for the cobra,
>which stood

It sounds like the students were similar to most "typical Christians"
and Sri Yukteswar is like many Christian saints.  All religions have
their saints, mystics, prophets, etc.  However, very few people live
up to the ideals of their religion.

I agree that Stephen's post about the "Christian MA" (as much of it as
I could understand) deserved to be flamed.  But this followup to the
rat story, and many of those which answered that post, sound
unnecessarily anti-Christian.  Let's all try to leave flames about
religion (and ethnicity) out of this newsgroup.  Otherwise, if we're
gonna contrast Christianity with "Eastern religions" and Native
American religions, lets get serious and move next door to soc.history
and join the Turks and the Armenians and the Greeks and the Serbs and
the Croats... and have one big happy flame war!

<------------------------MARTIAL ARTS CONTENT---------------------->

Several posts in this thread have pointed out the necessity of
"knowing your enemy", in the sense that knowledge about rats may have
lead Stephen to the conclusion that unless the rat was rabid, it was
probably not dangerous, and could have been easily convinced to leave
without a major conflict (e.g. running down the street trying to kick
it).  Other posts have pointed out that conflict avoidance is an
important tenet in many arts.  I have a question.  Are the principles
of conflict avoidance/resolution (which is a legitimate field of
study) taught (semi-)formally in anyone's doj*?

--
From: bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: ken tori - Aikido
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:18:41 GMT
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.

In article <4494@news.duke.edu> ndd@bal1 (Ned Danieley) writes:

>bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers) writes:

>>>directed at the left side of my neck, I step forward with my left foot under
>                                  ^^^^

>: It seems to me that yoko_MEN_ is being incorrectly performed or named
>: here.  yokomen in Muso Shinden Ryu is _always_ to the temple, not to
>: the neck.

>interesting. in my Aikido dojo, despite calling the strike yokomen,
>we also strike to the neck, trying to hit at the point where the neck
>joins the shoulder, and then cutting on a diagonal to a point just
>above the opposite hip. at what angle do you perform yokomen?

Ah, now I understand.  Men, by definition, is the head (that's the
meaning of the word).  So any strike to the head is a men strike of
some sort.  The blow _you_ are describing, is called a `kesa' (in my
style anyway).  this is derived of the name of the robe that buddhist
preists wear, draped from one shoulder down to the opposite hip.  Note
that a kesa can be upwards or downwards (from jodan or from waki or
gedan).

>: It should prbably be noted that jodan no kamae (the combative posture
>: that one starts from to initiate men or yokomen) is almost never used
>: on an unarmed opponent.  Jodan is very good against horse mounted
>: opponents though.  The prefered kamae against an opponent with a sword
>: (sheathed or otherwise) would be chudan no kamae or seigan no kamae
>: (this from Muso Shinden or Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto, possibly
>: others).

>we tend to start our techniques from chudan no kamae against both
>armed and unarmed opponents, and then raise the sword to jodan
>before striking shomenuchi or 'yokomenuchi'. this strike is done
>with either a slide forward or a step forward (in the latter case,
>it's preceded by a step back). does your style not pass through
>jodan before striking shomen or yokomen?

For almost _all_ men strikes we start from jodan.  But against an
opponent at the same level (horse to horse or foot to foot) we tend
not to use it (at least in the first blow).  It exposes too much suki
(weakness).  The time where jodan is _almost_ always used is when you
are on foot and confront a horse mounted opponent.  The time jodan is
used a lot is in kiri-tsuke (coup de grace in westren style fencing),
the final decisive blow.  The inital blow (batto) is almost always a
sideways cut or a rising cut in my style.

BTW, my style is Muso Shinden Ryu Iaido (Battojutsu).

--
"Time is simply the illusion of the passing of history, and history is
simply the illusion of the passing of time..."
                                -The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Iaido   Takamine   Hobie   Rossignol   Alfa GTV6  Ducati MHR(DOD #900)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552)
Subject: Neat game
Organization: just me...and...my shaaaaaadow...
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 14:16:26 GMT
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts

Here is a neat game I ran across at a recent Markland event, of all places...
How to play:
First, kill your chicken...whoops...wrong recipe...:-)
First, find two willing participants.  Give them a 5 foot staff (maybe 1.75m).
They should each hold it horizontally between them, with the hands positioned
such that each person's right hand is outside the others left hand on the 
staff.  The hands should be out a bit, not directly in front of the bodies.

So you have two folks holding a staff between them.  I hope they are standing
on a soft surface, like grass or a hard cotton mat.  The staff should not
be metal or with metal ends or (shudder) pointy.

Now, to win, all they have to do is put their right-hand end of the staff on
the ground, end first.  Naturally, since they each have one side of the
staff on their right, the struggle is very entertaining.  We play that you
can throw, sweep, trip, etc., but not strike, headbutt, whatever.  Both hands
stay on the staff normally...bby the time you need one to balance or break a
fall, you have lost.  Pushing, sudden weight shifts, circling are all valid
techniques.  I like to drop suddenly onto my back and plant my foot in (now)
victims' stomach, encouraging him to "soar like bird".  Ground the staff while
victim is enjoying the flight, of course.

Of an entire two hours or so of this, with about 20 participants, we suffered
no injuries.  Anyone seen this game before?  Great for developing strong
grappling stances, I would guess.

Great fun!
	   David Pipes
robear@digex.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552)
Subject: Re: The Christian MA
Organization: just me
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 12:35:48 GMT
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts

Stephen,
     It is currently believed that homosexuality is genetic in origin.  Ask
yourself why God made them this way.

     The bible tells us to love our neighbor.  It also tells us to hate those
who are different.  Which is right?

     You can overcome your cultural biases against those of other races,
political beliefs, even abberant behaviors - but not this?

     Why do you value the parts of the book which talk about hatred more than
those which talk about compassion?

     Most MA's will teach us to overcome our fears.  I suggest that this is
a good place to start.

		David Pipes

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mallon@hsi.com (Dan Mallon-Kraft)
Subject: Circular vs. Linear Throws (was Re: Wing Chun style...help!)
Organization: 3M Health Information Systems, Wallingford CT
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 20:56:18 GMT

In article <10345@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:
>A related subject, to open this up to other folks...
>
>From my current perspective, it looks as if most throwing techniques are
>inherently circular in nature. Comments? Counter-examples? If so, and if
>your style tends to be rather linear in nature, what role do throwing
>techniques occupy in your system?

I can think of many different throws that aren't circular and some that
can be either circular or linear.  It seems to me that many hip techniques
are pretty much circular, but many of the arm throws, leg throws, and foot
throws can be either.  I think, in general, that the circular throw is
easier on uke.  The linear throw can really be hard on uke and your mileage
with uke will be severely limited if you drive the unfortunate sole straight
into the mat instead of giving him/her air time to react.

Examples of Judo techniques that come to mind:

Assume a grip where both uke and tori have their right hands on the other's
left lapel and the left hand is on the sleeve around the elbow of the other's
right arm.

Uki Otoshi: tori walking backward steps/kneels to the left of uke.  Tori
    can lead uke out over uke's feet and circle him down or tori can 'sheath
    the sword' as we were told where tori pulls uke straight down to tori's
    hip.

Osoto Gari: tori walking forward steps deep with his left leg past uke on
    uke's right side.  Tori continues the motion forward slipping the right
    leg past uke's right leg and then driving the leg backward (while 
    driving forward with the upper body), reaps uke's right leg sending uke
    down to the mat on uke's back.

The first can be either linear or circular, but the second is very circular.
If someone thinks it can be circular without turning it into osoto harai goshi,
clue me in.

Sorry for the overuse of tori and uke as adjectives, but explaining techniques
using him and her can really get confusing depending on the reader's 
interpretation.

If you want other examples, I'd be glad to identify them, but I didn't want
to mention oodles of them in detail nor did I want to just put out names of
techniques that only certain folk would understand.

Dan
-- 
 Dan Mallon-Kraft		     mallon@hsi.com
 3M Health Information Systems	     {uunet,yale}!hsi!mallon 	    
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jonathan@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Jonathan Dwyer)
Subject: Re: Headlock escape for non-vampires (was Re: Biting in the MA's?)
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Organization: UQ Psychology, Australia
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 05:32:16 GMT

In article <JON.92Aug17145333@zeus.med.utah.edu>, jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd) writes:
|> you can also reach around
|> with your left hand and insert a finger between his cheek and gums,
|> and rip.  no matter how tightly your enemy clenches his teeth, you can
|> still reach into his cheek at the left side of his mouth.  beware of
|> being bitten!  do not insert your fingers between your enemy's teeth.


If you really try this, make sure you keep the pressure deliberately _upwards_
or _downwards_ as well as _rearwards_...  otherwise, with an instinctive flick
of the head, your enemy (sic) will have your fingers crunched between molars.

Aahh!  Yeouuchhh!!!

*a moment of pondering.......*


Oh God, we're drifting back towards "biting" again :-\

--
           ____
   /\  /\ / __ \ Jonathan Dwyer (FAX+6173654466) 
  / / / // / / / Department of Psychology
 / / / // / / /  The University of Queensland
/ /_/ // /_/ <   St. Lucia, 4072. AUSTRALIA 
\____/*\_____/*  jonathan@psych.psy.uq.oz.au
From: snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: The rat, the raccoon, rabies, the MA
Date: 20 Aug 92 11:53:51 GMT
Organization: NAVAL SURFACE WARFARE CENTER


>Actually, I thought it was raccoons that were the big problem as far as
>rabies.  Both the numbers and the spread are increasing (based on # of
>raccoons diagnosed each year). 

Rabies, is a big problem, yes.  Raccoons are one vector for spreading
this, rats are another.  Rats have been a major disease vector throughout
the history of mankind.

Anyone ever faced a rabid coon?  I think it was three Sundays ago the
Wash Post had a story about this family in a pool, trapped by a rabid
coon, it wouldn't let them out.  Before some brave soul finally managed
to baseball bat the beast into oblivion, it bit two children, who
are now undergoing the three weeks of stomach shots :-(
* the shots are painful and NOT 100 per cent effective BTW *

What is  a lesson for us?  Well this is a bit like the question of what
strategy do you use if you have to face a dirty hypo.... the ol, I may
get cut, but I'm gonna win attitude doesn't fly so well.  This is
one time I think a concrete quality jump shoulder roll might come in
REAL handy!  Can anyone do this?  I have done a jump roll on grass
and on wood and this has been enough to convince me I don't want to
try concrete!

In the last few days, I have read people posting they aren't scared 
of city rats *even when surprised* and I have read people posting
about harmony with ALL of God's creatures.  I've just gotta point out
there can be a serious gap between TALK and WALK!  Me, I KNOW I am
scared of rats, especially when surprised.  I KNOW I would get limp
knees if I had to face a suspected-rabid animal.  
===================================================================
*** Never share a foxhole with someone who is braver than you are ***
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cameron_t@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Subject: Californian Martial Artists!
Organization: Welligton City Council, Public Access.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 18:43:57 GMT

Greetings form way down under!

My names Matt Cameron and I am a Kyokushin instructor in Wellington
New Zealand. I am studying at Victori University and would like to know
about the Karate scene in California. I hear that Riverside University
have a strong karate community holding somewhere in the region of seven
national titles. I am thinking of applying to be an exchange student and 
coming over at the end of 1993. Is anyone from Riverside or even California?

See ya !
Matthew Cameron - CAMERON_T@Kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: hoff@fasic5.tmc.edu (Jim Hoff)
Subject: Can anyone be a Black Belt?
Organization: Fermilab, Batavia, IL
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:22:58 GMT

Hello,
	I just thought I'd put this question to the group.  A while back,
I got into a rather heated argument with other senior members of my (then)
doj*.  I asked them if anyone who came through their doors could eventually
become a black belt.  There answer was that as long as anyone came regularly,
paid his dues, and paid for testing, that person, regardless of whether or
not he could walk and chew gum at the same time, would get his (or her) 
black belt.  This was, in fact, evidenced by the wide assortment of black 
belts at this dojo who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.
My next question to them was "When does someone have to be good?"  In other
words, when does ability become a prerequisite for advancement.  They had
no answer.
	The fact that I am no longer a member of that dojo and, for that 
matter, that I no longer study Tae Kwon Do despite my black belts in that 
art, is probably proof enough of my opinion of their answers.  However, since
this is what I would like comments on, I will spell it out.  In my opinion,
there is a martial art for everyone, but not every martial art is for everyone.
For instance, if you don't have good flexibility, the high kicking arts 
are probably not for you, but you might have excellent balance, and so you
might excell in the throwing arts.  I think that if some teacher comes 
across a student so dedicated as to continue regardless of his lack of ability,
that teacher should pull that student aside and say,"You truly have what it
takes to become a martial artist, but I don't think that this is the art for
you.  Have you considered, some other art?"  I think that dedication could
carry a student very far in an art, but in order to be a black belt in
an art, you must be very good at that art or you cheapen the meaning of 
Black Belt.
	Comments?  Similar experiences?

					Jim Hoff

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: Help ! Need feet of DEATH !
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 13:09:27 GMT

In article <shane-170892125028@a-mac.psy.uq.oz.au> shane@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Shane Brown) writes:
>   Why do I ask ? Because I am sick of losing my voice screaming
>when I let rip with a roundhouse in sparring, only to feel the
>top of my foot connect with the point of my partners elbow. AAARRGG !

Don't kick his elbow.  In this case the "cure" you have suggested is 
worse than the problem.  Put another way, you have a choice between
learning to place your kicks more accurately or deliberately 
damaging your legs to deaden the nerves.

Dakin
burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers)
Subject: Re: Can anyone be a Black Belt?
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
	<1992Aug13.011703.15769@ecst.csuchico.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:26:59 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.011703.15769@ecst.csuchico.edu> jmeyers@ecst.csuchico.edu (Jeff Meyers) writes:

>Question: do any other systems have such "regulated" black belt promotions?

The answer to this question from my perspective involves three
dedicated and diverse groups of people.  The first is the Zen Nihon
Kendo Renmei (All-Japan Kendo Federation).  Then there are two groups
who represent the USA in kendo, they are Beikoku Kendo Renmei
(American Kendo Federation) and the US Kendo Federation.

ZNKR is the founding body and all kendo applications for rank and
teaching certificates (yes, they are two seperate and distinct things
under the auspices of the kendo federation) must be approved by the
home office (Tokyo, Japan).  The ZNKR has connections to the BKR and
the USKF.

Promotions granted by the BKR are recognized by the Japanese home
office (I don't know about the USKF).  Most of the requirements for
dan ranks in the BKR are _MORE_ difficult than in Japan under the ZNKR
(something which BKR officials are quite proud of).

Yes, all tests are results are standardized, so a shodan from the USA
_should_ be quite equivalent to one from, say, Somalia.  But there are
some physical infirmities that will prevent anyone from advancing in
kendo.

So it should only matter how wide spread your system is.  There are
small groups that have a founder who can make spot promotions, where
other groups are more wide spread and need a higher level of
standardization.

--
...ignoring the fact that most Alfas spend their time cruising for
chicks, most Datsuns being washed and most Porsches in parking spaces
marked "Doctor"...              -Henry N. Manney III, Road and Track
Al Bowers                                 bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov