HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jimbo@amber.ssd.csd.harris.com (Jim Winters)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Lynch's Spoiler Review:  "Realm of Fear"
Date: 4 Oct 92 18:12:42 GMT
Organization: Harris Computer Systems Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: amber.ssd.csd.harris.com
In-reply-to: tlynch@cco.caltech.edu's message of 4 Oct 1992 00:22:56 GMT

Tim> (Another had to be Geordi's crack about Reg looking pale,
Tim> however.  Er...Geordi, pardon me for asking, but isn't it a *wee*
Tim> bit difficult for you to tell?)

This happens so much with Geordi that I've come to suspect that they
are doing it on purpose.  Geordi is always saying "I see." or "See you
later." or "It looks like..." or else someone is saying these things
to him.  I know that's just standard usage, so much so that we usually
don't notice it, but since I noticed it the first few times it seems
like it happens a lot.

Not exactly what you meant, I know, but I wanted to put my $.02.  :-)
--

--
Jim Winters	jimbo@ssd.csd.harris.com
]O	See through science part of a backdoor.  A door made up of doors...
From: trw@spl1.spl.loral.com (Tim R Witort)
Subject: Data's money *SPOLIERS* (was problems with Times' Arrow prt. 2)
Organization: Loral Software Productivity Laboratory
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:46:19 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.164705.11417@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz) writes:
|> Why didn't Data just reach into his pocket and pay her?  It was
|> already established that he had plenty of money.

   It seemed that he gave the whole wad to Jack in TAI. Perhaps
he paid for the room for a couple of months, then gave Jack the
rest to get all of the materials he needed to build his time shift
detector. He obviously paid no attention to whether or not he was
giving Jack too much money or not.

-- Tim
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: larry@b8.b8.ingr.com (Larry Billings)
Subject: Re: TNG Grade Report: "Time's Arrow II"
Organization: Intergraph
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:39:58 GMT

In article <rawdon.717625324@cs.wisc.edu>, rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon) writes:
> He's baaa-aaack...
> 
> Spoilers for the TNG episode "Time's Arrow II"...
> 

















> I'm still a little mystified about this whole story.  On the one hand, it
> seemed like they had real potential here to do a compelling, intricate
> story with substantial color and depth.  On the other hand, what we got is
> an entertaining adventure story, no more, no less.  It leaves me a bit
> frustrated afterwards.
> 

<stuff deleted>

> And yet, it seems like this episode could have gone a long way, had it
> wished, in demonstrating Data's attachment to humanity and desire to be
> human.  Part I had that nice bit where Data said that knowledge of his death
> was comforting, and yet that thread was utterly ignored here (how does he
> feel now, knowing that his head survived in a dusty cave for 500 years, and
> was reattached to his body with a minimum of effort.  Also, we could have had

Yes this did seem to be too easy of a solution.

> a neat exploration of Picard's relationship with Guinan, and yet that too
> was completely glossed over.  It was strongly implied that this escapade was
> the reason behind Picard and Guinan meeting and becoming such good friends
> (and, it seems, that ever-vague "much more"), but nothing we saw here
> demonstrated any of that.  I remain mystified.  And I certainly don't see how
> if Picard had never gone along on the mission that they never would have met.

Well, it is my impression that she looks him up 500 years later.  With all the
people in the Galaxy, two particular people meeting by chance twice is 
unlikely.

> 
> But.  There were, sad to say, a number of holes, or at least disappointments.
> 

One hole which I didnot see you mention.  Remember the first part when they
found out the people were out of time phase with humans, Laforge said it 
didn't matter how much time difference existed, if they weren't in the same
time you couldn't see them.  However when Data shifted time he counted 1,
2, 3, and disapeared when he counted 4 (whatever time units they used).

> 
> Third, and least important, is how Picard and company managed to fit into
> 19th century society so well.  But I guess we can sort of abstract this
> away by watching reruns of "City On The Edge Of Forever". :-)

Picard is very much a fan of early history and would probably know how to
fit in, I assume he indrocronated the crew as to how to act.

> Michael Rawdon				 rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
> 						- The Box, "Live On TV"

Larry Billings
From: msheldon@luna.dpl.scg.hac.com (Marti Sheldon)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: PICARD/RIKER in White House?
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:19:46 GMT
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

Re: "Picard/Riker 92" - no good. Jean Luc was not born in the
United States.  Riker/Picard would work, though.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt "Some Guy" Bose)
Subject: Re: Time's Arrow Paradox [spoilers]
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 04:55:15 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Sep27.030335.26463@sol.UVic.CA> jcowling@ophelia.UVic.CA (Scowling Jim Cowling) writes:
>


I just thought of something:  Twain's watch should not exist in the 24th Century
>as it would be infinitely old.  Think about it.  He picks up his watch in
>the future, where it is 500 years old, then leaves it in the cave.  Therefore,
>in the future it must be 1000 years old, then 1500 etc etc.  It's caught in
>a time loop where it has no existence after the 24th century, but must
>logically have infinite age at all points in its existence directly after 
>Clemens' time-travel.
>
>In any case, it's a paradox without solution, and they screwed up.  What do
>y'all think?
>

I was under the impression that what happened was this.

1. Mark Twain has a pocket watch in the 19th century.
2. In the cave with our intrepid crew, the watch is cast to the ground.
3. The watch lies in the cave for 500 years.
4. In the 24th century, our intrepid crew finds a pocket watch in the cave.
5. At this point in the chronology of the watch (no pun intended), it is 500
   years old, on the Enterprise.
6. On the Enterprise, the crew returns from Devidia II, with Mark Twain in
   tow.
7. Twain finds and retrieves his watch (now 500 years old).
8. Twain returns to the 19th century, with his 500 year old watch with him.
9. Back in the cave, after Picard has left, Twain notices his watch on the
   ground (the "new" watch, not the 500 year old one).
10.Twain picks the watch up, but, either remembering the watch in his pocket
   or mindful of paradox, replaces the new watch on the cave floor.

-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) *  kbos@carina.unm.edu * Make outs, not walks!
Keeper of the R.S.BB FAQ, and Junior Stathead {tm} * Yay!  Gary Blickhan's back!
Be kind...don't disillusion the RBI-lovers. * Net.Agent, "Doublin" David Rossing
I'd rather see Doug Dascenzo pitch than suffer through Roger McDowell's batting.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: jng53092@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Gad)
Subject: Re: Time's Arrow Paradox [spoilers] You have it all wrong! *The
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 08:07:04 GMT


Possible *Spoilers* for TA II
(Though, at THIS point how could have avoided being spoiled is beyond me...)

> 
>Twain finds his 'lost' watch on the enterprise.  He pockets it and return to
>his own time zone.  Now he decides to leave it there to be found in the future. 
>Wow! Wait a second! How did he lose his watch in the first place? Although time
>travel is a funny concept, time kept going forward for each participant:  Twain
>did not go back to his past: he only went to the future and returned to the
>cave at a time after his departure from the past.  So when did he first
> lose his watch? HE NEVER HAD A WATCH IN THE FIRST PLACE.  The man STOLE it
> from the Enterprise, and in a fit of honesty ( Yea, right!) he LEFT it behind
> in the cave.  I hope someone out there followed me!! Cheers


Ok, I follow you all right.  I just don't AGREE with you... ;)

Look, let me try and resolve this in a calm and organized fashion with a little
Time's Arrow Time Line:

[Most of 1800s TA I & II Deleted]

Twain enters cave with pistol AND watch.
Scuffle with Aliens, Data gets his head blown off.
Twain drops watch and pistol, either in explosion or during leap. [NOT SHOWN]
Twain dives through to 24th Century. (Nimble old fart, wasn't he?  ;)  )
Twain returns from 24th Century, carrying 500 year-old watch, and LEAVING his
      original watch.  (ie, the one he entered with, one that is NOT 500 years
      old.)

[500 years of assorted history deleted]

Twain emerges from time portal (or whatever you want to call it)
Twian goes to the Enterprise and retreves the watch, now 500 years old. 
Twain returns to the 19th Century.

[Realm of Fear Deleted]


Or to put it another way:

The Watch enters cavern with Twain
The Watch is dropped by Twain
The Watch is picked up, looked at and put down by Twain at end of TA II.
{The 500 year old Watch leaves with Twain, whiles the NOT-500 year old watch 
 remains ----- NOT EXPLICITLY POINTED OUT}

500 Years

The Watch is found near Data's head. 
The Watch is retrieved by Twain and returns to 19th Century.


    The problem that some people seem to have is that Twain's dropping of the
Watch in the first place wasn't shown on camera, nor was the fact that despite
his picking up and putting down of the "young" watch, he was leaving with the
500 year old watch in his pocket.  I hope this clears up some confusion, and 
lets us get back to more "curent" topics, like, say, Realm of Fear...

Jon Gad
jng53092@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
From: jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Time's Arrow - Data's Head
Date: 1 Oct 92 03:38:17 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1992Sep30.170132.17607@panix.com> fnord@panix.com (Cliff Heller) writes:
>In <1992Sep29.163512.21625@EE.Stanford.EDU> bill@isl.Stanford.EDU (Bill Moore) writes:
>>>How is it possible that Data could hold his own head?  How could he have 
>>>two heads (actually the same one) occupying the same time and space? 
>>>This seems to conflict with the theories of time travel I know that 
>>>the same entity (or parts thereof) cannot occupy the same time.	

>True, but it violates what I would simply have to call, conservation of
>matter.  Which equates to conservation of energy and is one of the most
>fundamental principles in physics.

Well, if you look at the conservation of mass-energy in FOUR dimensions
rather than three, it still holds.  After all, no head is actually created
or destroyed, it's just that the same head is positioned in different
places in the space-time continuum, and happens to stare itself in the
face.  The same amount of matter / cosmic strings still exists.

Note: this does NOT attempt to explain "Time Squared", Sela, or Doctor
Who...  :-)

>Between this and the traditional causality loop violation, TA II was very
>poor indeed.

uh... characterization?  themes?  imagery?  Nah.  The only thing worth
rating the episode on is whether it conforms to a pet theory of time travel.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: Alex.Comerford@p0.f37.n254.z2.fidonet.org (Alex Comerford)
Subject: Star Trek Entertainment Centers
Organization: FidoNet node 2:254/37.0 - <Out of the Blue, London
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 10:15:08 +0000

I've just picked up on a message thread here about these TNG stores
which will be appearing in some malls in the US. Does anybody have
any further info about them (timescale, company details, product range
etc).

If you've got the info i'd love to hear about it.
 
Alex


Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: lowerjc@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (J. Craig Lowery)
Subject: Re: My $0.02 about "Time's Arrow II"
Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA
Distribution: USA
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:14:44 GMT

SPOILERS for Time's Arrow ahead

In article <41800004@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> brian@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Wood) writes:
>rfd@po.CWRU.Edu (Richard F. Drushel) writes:
>
>>	(1)  Where did the away team get its period clothing?  They
>
>Since we are not shown the actual arrival of the team in San Francisco,
>we must give them some license to get on with the story.  We can assume
>that they either stole the clothes or played some poker just as Data
>did to get money to buy clothes.  It is really not important, and
>would have detracted from the story had they wasted time showing us.

Oh, but it's FINE to waste our time showing the crew trying to distract
the landlady?  c'mon.  You can do better than that!  The lack of explanation
about the clothing was almost as bad as Twain's vocal mannerisms. (Will he
ever finish this sentence?)

>Of course, had they skipped this in TOS, we would never have had the 
>immortal line "Sir, there is a multi-legged creature crawling on your
>shoulder."

I thought that line came from "A Taste of Armageddon," not "City..."

<Craig>

Craig Lowery
Mississippi College
lowery@AuE.com
From: lowerjc@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (J. Craig Lowery)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Mistake in Borg episode
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:05:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: vuse.BvCt1o.6Gn
Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA

In article <BuzMzB.1IC@cs.dal.ca> roy@ug.cs.dal.ca (David Roy) writes:
>
>I have noticed a small error in the episode where the Borg capture and
>assimilate Capt. Picard.  The first words Picard (as Locutus) says is
>	"I am Locutus of Borg...."
>
>This is incorrect with the Borg as we are led to understand them in the
>later episode called (I believe) 'I Borg', where the Borg cannot use, or
>rather cannot understand the usage of the word I... 

The whole reason for capturing Picard was to communicate with the federation
and its citizens.  It was specifically stated that Picard would bridge this
communication gap.  He was, therefore, allowed to retain human qualities,
including notions of individuality.

<Craig>

Craig Lowery
Mississippi College
lowery@AuE.com
From: lichter@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Michael I. Lichter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: asf
Date: 5 Oct 92 11:15:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department

I have no doubt that this question has been asked sixteen zillion times
over, but I haven't seen a FAQ for this group...

A friend recently informed me that she had heard that ST:TNG was being
cancelled and that a new show "more in accordance with the old Star
Trek" (ST:DS9 from what I've gathered here) would soon be airing in its
stead.  She wanted to know what the deal is, and so do I.

So: is ST:TNG being cancelled?  Just what is this ST:DS9 thing?

Feel free to reply direct (lichter@cs.ucla.edu) rather than
re-cluttering the group.  Thanks.

Michael
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current,rec.arts.startrek.fandom,rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: aberigan@nde.unl.edu (A. Berigan)
Subject: Re: Star Trek Chess
Keywords: chess
Organization: Ord High School, Ord, NE
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 17:27:46 GMT

bwilliam%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Bruce R. Williams) writes:

>  A friend and I are interested in the chess game played on ST:TOS and TNG.
>First of all... is it the same game in both series?

Yes and no.  The boards are similar, but TNG likes to throw in 1 or 2
extra 2x2 boards for no apparent reason (unless you can exchange a pawn
for a 2x2 level, although they've shown boards too early in the game to
promote a pawn to one of those).

>Has anyone out there
>found or come up with a set of rules for the game?

Check the Star Trek Poster Book.  It's in there.

>  Also, can anyone remember in which episodes the game was played?

Well, I know the episode TOS:Charlie X had a game played, and was the
first time a decending 2x2 was depicted.

>Bruce R. Williams  .  University of Utah  .  (bwilliam@peruvian.utah.edu)

-- 
aberigan@nde.unl.edu (Greg Berigan)
From: MANEJWZA@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu ()
Subject: The Inner Light
Organization: Vanderbilt University 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 20:21:43 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.21

In <1992Sep27.060744.14770@news.vanderbilt.edu> MANEJWZA@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu writes:

 I know that the top five list has not been out yet however
 I would like to say somethings about the best episode ever to
 be aired on TNG.
 
 	The Inner Light was quite unexpected.  Regardless of the holes
 (if any) in the plot and or problems with character repreentation, this
 episode is not only unique, but touching in a sense.  The unique aspects
 are very crucial to Star Trek history.  The character of Picard has 
 been greatly effected by this episode.
 	
 	Most of the people writing for this group are now discussing
 the Time's Arrow I and II.  Although these episode are interesting and 
 need to be addressed, I would like to hear more opinions on this matter
 for the above said reason and also because I have just got back on since
 April 29, when I left school.
 	
 	I felt that the Inner Light acheived the Star Trek excellence
 through a moving story about a starship captain, a captain with many 
 responsibilities, with much loneliness, much daring, who lives a life
 of family which he had felt he had neither had the time nor the desire
 (Samaritan Snare).  He marries, has friends of ultimate intamacy, 
 children (wow!), and then grows old.
 
 	I feel that Picard thought he knew too much about planetary
 livelihood before the probe contact.  This crucial episode reveals
 the ignorance of Picard on what it is to live on a planet that does not
 concern itself with terrestial problems.  The serene and utopian
 existence contradicts Captain KIRK'S opinions-->"We don't belong in
 a cage, we belong up there, in the stars".  
 	
 	Captain Picard has know reached beyond the spiritual boundaries
 of Captain Kirk.
 
 	
 
 	I only wish the writers take all this into consideration in 
 depicting Picard in future episodes.
 
 		
 							-Z
 

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU (macphil)
Subject: Re: Will we have to pay to see Star Trek?
Organization: IUPUI
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 20:50:24 EST

In article <1992Sep26.135619.5474@gw.wmich.edu>
772dunkerley@gw.wmich.edu writes:
 
>In article <1686DC436.IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU>, IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU (macphil) writes:
>> In article <90402@netnews.upenn.edu>
>> chaim@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Chaim R. Dworkin) writes:
>>
>>>broadcast nets.  But my concern is more for people who can't afford to
>>>put out the $20 a month it takes to have cable service.
>>
>> Are you just as concerned for the non sci-fi folks who can't afford
>> to see the Turner library?
>
>I'm just disgusted with the whole idea of 'exclusive rights' to any show.
>I see a bad moon rising here.  Someday, we will have to pay for ANYTHING we
>want to watch, because regular broadcast TV won't have anything to show.
 
You seem to be advocating ( but not stating for whatever reason )
that once something has been shown it should be public domain.  What "right"
does "regular broadcast tv" have to this stuff?  They can choose to "rent"
some shows in the form of syndication or purchase them, just as "The Wizard
of Oz" was (more or less) for twenty years.  What goes around...
 
Look @ pro sports.  It's inevitable that they'll have to fix their own
problems because they've scammed the fans.  If someone were to "charge
for everythying" as you say, it'll eventually go through the same
motions.  Besides, you seem to think you have a right to see things
for free, almost as if once you've bought a television set you have
a right to see something of your choice for free.  I can't agree.
I'm willing to pay for what I watch (within reason).  That gives
me a vote in the form of the money I spend.  When those who rely
upon that money get tired of not seeing it come trickling in along
/c the money of other consumers, they'll make changes.
From: tallman%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Robert Oliver)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Picard's Age
Date: 3 Oct 92 03:10:13 GMT
Reply-To: tallman%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Robert Oliver)
Organization: Ailanthus Project

My comments
Why is it hard to believe that Picard has technical skill? You don't get 
to be the captain of a Galaxy class starship (the Enterprise at that) for 
being an idiot. Picard is in his mid-60's and has been galloping around 
space for about that last 40 years of his life. He probably learned at>> 
least a few things in that time. 
 
From: mapmh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (M Hagger)
Absolutely right!  And Picard has shown that he's familiar with binary 
code before, in 1101011... or whatever string of numbers they used for 
the title>of that show.  However, he's in his mid-50's not his mid-60's.  
Just because he's bald don't assume he's older than he really is!
 
Picard's age can be reached by the following info:
 
2305 July 13  Picard is born (from the graphic displays in "Conundrum")
2323  Picard enters SF Academy (speculation) Picard: age 18
2327  Picard graduates from SF Academy (from "The First Duty") Picard: 
age 22
2342  Picard fails to meet Janice Manheim on Earth (We'll Always 
...Paris) Picard: age 37
2364  ST:TNG season 1 (from "The Neutral Zone") Picard: age 59
2369  ST:TNG season 6 (speculation) Picard: age 64
 /s

..........
Robert Oliver, tallman%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
via Ailanthus Project +1 207-989-6562 - Brewer, Maine.
..........
From: brian@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Wood)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: I HATE BARCLAY (Ream of Fear SPOILER)
Date: 2 Oct 92 14:44:17 GMT
Organization: HP Mfg. Test Div., Loveland, CO

lesnyd@monsanto.com  Larry E. Snyder at DSC writes:

>I got totally bored and exasparated watching Reg Barclay whine and whimper
>and act like a neurotic boob for a whole hour. I think that pretty much
>sums up Realm Of Fear.

I guess you pretty much miss the point of Barclay.  The one immutable
law of Trek is IDIC.  The message here is that even people who have
severe neurosis can be useful, productive members of society.  He did,
after all, come up with the solution, and he has proven his ability
to solve problems time after time.  Anyone who has ever been shy or
unsure of themselves should be able to relate.

Just ask yourself, "If I were like him, would I want the respect of
my associates?"  I think the answer is yes.

Brian
.sig on file with NSA, classified Top Secret.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: lesnyd@monsanto.com (Larry E. Snyder)
Subject: I HATE BARCLAY (Ream of Fear SPOILER)
Organization: DSC
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:50:15 GMT

Maybe spoilers, so I'm adding 32 lines...


































OK, so it's 34 lines.

I got totally bored and exasparated watching Reg Barclay whine and whimper
and act like a neurotic boob for a whole hour. I think that pretty much
sums up Realm Of Fear.

He sees something in the transporter beam but doesn't want to talk about it
because he thinks he's just going nuts. What a useless crew member! You
can't trust him, he can't trust himself, and no competent organization would
keep somebody like that very long. I mean, this is the Woody Allen of the
24th century. I'm not sure that Woody Allen is as neurotic as this guy.

As for the story, four big worms in the transporter beam turn out to be the
missing crew members of the science vessel, stuck in transport. Why do they
look like worms? 

And there is yet another parasitic lifeform that threatens to infect the
world.

Sigh.

This was a 3 on a scale of 10. I guess shows like this really benefit from
The Cost Of Living. It keeps them off the bottom.

Larry