HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: matoh@lysator.liu.se (Mats \hrman)
Subject: Re: **** TOP 10 LPMUDs ****
Reply-To: matoh@sssab.se
Organization: 3S AB
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:53:49 GMT

ak853@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Blade) writes:
>	No. I don't like Genesis. And until someone decided to stir
>things up a bit, the Keepers of Genesis had no way of hearing what I
>said, either.  Isn't the point of mud for the PLAYERS to have fun?  I
>wanted to suggest a LOT of things that could've been done with Genesis
>when I first saw it. But there was no way to, because no email addresses
>were posted, the idea command responds with 'What?', and I can't even
>tell when there is a wizard/Keeper/whatever on at the time.
>	I will stop ranting about the subject now.  I will talk
>level-headedly.  It is when people don't LISTEN to what I have to say
>that I begin to get irate and start being juvenile.  That's what gets
>people's attentions, apparently.


telnet> Trying 129.16.79.12 ...
Connected to milou.cd.chalmers.se.
Escape character is '^]'.
 
Welcome to Genesis 3.0, late alfa phase.

[...]

Gamedriver version:     CD.01.57
Mudlib version:         CD.00.25

[...]

> idea test
Ok.

> help
Genesis general mortal help information,                   updated 920819
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can request help on a number of topics. Help will be given on the
following form:

NAME
        help - get help on a specific topic

SYNOPSIS
        help <string>

DESCRIPTION
        This command prints a help text on a specific topic

OPTIONS
        string - any topic

TOPICS

appraise       examine        invite         remove         stats
brief          forget         join           rsay           stop
bug            get            kill           save           team
clean_up       give           leave          say            teams
commune        help           look           search         typo
compare        idea           password       see            vitals
count          idle           praise         shout          wear
drop           intro          put            skillevels     whisper
email          introduce      quit           skillist       who
emotions       introduced     remember       skills         wield
escape         inventory      remembered     spells         wimpy
EOF

> help idea
NAME
        idea - submit an idea for improvement

SYNOPSIS
        idea <string>

DESCRIPTION
        This command writes your present location and the string you type
        as argument to the responsible wizards logfile.
        It should be used for the submission of ideas for improvement
        in the local area.

OPTIONS
        string - any text

SEE ALSO
        typo, bug, praise
>EOF

--
     _
Mats Ohrman     Scandinavian System Support AB       E-mail:   matoh@sssab.se
                Box 535    _                      Telephone:  +46 13 11 16 60
                581 06 Linkoping, Sweden            Telefax:  +46 13 11 51 93
Xref: sparky rec.games.mud.lp:2716 rec.games.mud:8339 rec.games.mud.admin:281
From: dixjb@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Jonathan Barrymore Dix)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp,rec.games.mud,rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: a function and an obj
Date: 16 Aug 92 20:30:09 GMT
Distribution: rec.games.mud
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science



   Well people apparently there is function called in a 3.0* in player.c
called caller()...May I ask what it is, where it is called from, and what
it does.... thats pretty simply ;)

   Also, I am looking for armgeddon monster, though I think I have it, I am
just wondering if anyone has a good copy...thanks in advance.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: whale@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen Schmidt)
Subject: Re: **** TOP 10 LPMUDs ****
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 16:44:26 GMT

In article <ANIPA.92Aug21165011@sotka.cs.tut.fi> anipa@cs.tut.fi (Niilo Neuvo) writes:

>MudOS is a ripoff created by TMI to get them some fame (personal opinion).
>
Although I am a TMI person, I have not worked on MudOS at all so I hope this
can still be counted as a neutral opinion.

TMI wanted to make some changes to the mudlib and driver which were fairly
substantial. So far, that seems OK, right? Lots of people do this.
Second, they wanted to make them publicly available so that other people
wouldn't have to duplicate their work. That doesn't seem wrong, does it?
Third, they didn't want to confuse people into thinking they were getting
the same thing as 3.1.whatever. So they gave it a new name, something
different from the old name.

Now, this is just MHO but I can't see what's wrong with any of that which
would justify calling it a "ripoff". Are you arguing that they shouldn't
tinker with the game, or that they shouldn't publicly release it, or that
they shouldn't have called it MudOS? I think it would have been extremely
presumptious of them to have called it LP 4.0. Maybe something like LpMudOS
that indicates the heritage might have been better, but that seems like
really minor quibbling.

Do you consider other versions of LP which are available such as Genesis
to also be ripoffs?

Mobydick@TMI
-- 
Steve Schmidt			<><		   whale@leland.stanford.edu

"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Walt Kelly
From: jlw@gestalt.austin.tx.us (James Waldrop)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: **** TOP 10 LPMUDs ****
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:46:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: mcs.1992Aug21.004655.19815
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory, NM

Some collected Eric Bladisms:
>The driver is totally different, the mudlib is totally different. 
>
>All Genesis stands for anymore is a mass of confusion.  It has
>no right to be called an LP-Mud, for the only thing even close to
>similar to Lars Pensj's LP-Mud is that it is programmble.
>
>Has Lars even _seen_ Genesis now?  If he has, it's no wonder he
>doesn't actively mud.  

Eric, is there someone paying you money to trumpet your ignorance across
the net on a regular basis?  If so, you should ask for a raise.

1) You don't know jack about the driver.  It is not "totally different".
  It has some SMALL differences, mainly in the behavior of certain
  efuns.  I hate to destroy your little image of what is and isn't
  LPmud, but CD is, without ANY doubt.

2) The mudlib is totally different from what?  2.4.5?  You bet
  your ass it is.  What the hell do you think they were doing for
  the 6 months or so that no one could login?  Haven't you been
  listening to a single word anyone has said on this subject?  Or
  is your attention span that short?  If this was life I'd be
  holding up cue cards printed in a nice bold print for you.

3)  Yes, Lars has seen Genesis.  Exactly when was the last time you
  spoke to Lars anyway?  You two bosom buddies, eh?  Maybe you
  should call him up, though, cause you seem a bit out of touch
  on this subject.

So you don't like Genesis.  Whoop-dee-doo.  When was it that God
chose you out of the ranks of mere mortal mudders and made you
the one to please?  Believe it or not, Genesis was written by
people who do that sort of thing for fun.  They wrote it the way
THEY envisioned it, and if you don't like it you can GO ELSEWHERE.
After having read your posts, I doubt anyone will be too broken
up over it.

Sulam
p.s. I don't usually flame people in this manner, but Eric seems to
have some difficulty understanding certain concepts.  Perhaps bluntness
will suffice where tact failed.
-- 
James Waldrop
jlw@hebrew.cc.columbia.edu

I walk along the path muttering about signs and portents.
From: djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: Darker Realms - The Mudlib
Date: 17 Aug 92 03:25:04 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

>>c) you should thing about exploiting the clean_up feature more

Er, not to get in the way of your wonderful fight, but this reminded
me of something that seemed inefficient to me.  Namely, the way
swapping works.  What happens (in standard 3.1.2) is that after
swapping in some code, the portion it occupied in the swap file
can never be used again.  Not really a big deal, but over time,
the swap file can get *huge*.  Especially when time to swap is
low in order to save memory...
-- 
Darin Johnson
djohnson@ucsd.edu
    This is the first time I've ever eaten a patient -- Northern Exposure
From: v070r6vw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (David C Valenzuela)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: What Happened to Dragon's Den?
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:16:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Anyone out there know whatthe problem with Dragon's Den is?
i.e. Fordan,Gunther, or Kelly?
I haven't been able to get on for a couple days...thought it was wierd.
People are asking about it/
From: mistry@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (The Destroyer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: LP-mud clients...
Date: 20 Aug 92 05:33:12 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: College of Engineering, Northeastern University

hi.. its me again... does anyone out there have any type of LPmud
client running... ??? Tinytalk, LPtalk... etc..
i have lpmud.el for emacs.. which is great..except it doesnt allow
ANSI... and it's BONE slow on a 2400 baud modem...

i dl'd LPtalk.121.shar.Z from some archie site.. ?? dont remeber but i
cante get the thing to compile.....????

if anyone has any ideas???

--
N   N IIIII CCCCC K  K     M   M IIIII SSSSS TTTTT RRRRR Y   Y
NN  N   I   C     K K      MM MM   I   S       T   R   R Y   Y
N N N   I   C     KK       M M M   I   SSSSS   T   RRRRR  YYY
N  NN   I   C     K K      M   M   I       S   T   R  R    Y
N   N IIIII CCCCC K  K     M   M IIIII SSSSS   T   R   R   Y

	EMAIL: mistry@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: guddt@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (David Bennett)
Subject: Re: Darker Realms - The Mudlib
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 02:24:09 GMT

amylaar@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (J"orn Rennecke) writes:

>d8andjo@dtek.chalmers.se (Johan Andersson) writes:

>>In article <1992Aug11.130723.22603@mcshh.Hanse.DE> amylaar@mcshh.Hanse.DE (Joern Rennecke) writes:
>>>
>>> Till the end of the use of lars' 3.1.2 , TubMud needed more than 90% cpu at
>>> reboot time. Now its some odd 17% or 10% , with lots of idle time. Why would
>>> the cpu be idling, if not because the hard disk is too slow?
>>>
>>A good point. This seems to argue that the lag suffered on compilation are
>>due to fileaccess. I will have to check this for Genesis. The point is that
>>rebooting Genesis is an order of magnitude faster when old binaries can be
>>used, which is in fact most of the time. The only reason it is not even
>>faster is that binaries can't be saved in objects using your switch-case code
>>with string labels. This is done in a couple of preloaded objects which are
>>therefore automatically forced to always be compiled.

>If it would be actually worth the coding effort, this could be easily resolved
>by saving the string case label list in a persistent format, and having a
>table of all string case label lists in the binary.

Wheee!  this is a fun debate isnt it?  We have on one side the CD people
and in the other corner the incomrehensible Aymlaar.  Geee, it is been
no end of fun watching you two argue fine points over the net.  I have
to thank Amylaar for starting this wqholey wonderful thread by flameing
one of Genesis articles.  I suppose it is makeing both of your mudlibs
more well known.  I am trully glad to know that you both have comltely
different cache hit rates.

>You could also have a binary lookup table for 2 bytes/function. But the global
>cache performs so well, so why add yet another structure? :-)

>	amylaar

Ps if you code like you write I am not surprised that Genesis couldnt
figure out your code....

David.
[DDT] Felt like flameing someone and as this was already a nice big
flame war, I decied it might as well be you.  Be happy.
-- 
  David Bennett,  guddt@uniwa.uwa.oz.au | University Computer Club
     Where Pink fish swim backwards.    | c/o Guild of Undergraduates
These words I am singing now mean nothing more than meow to an animal - TMBG
Disclaimer: Any spelling mistakes in this article are all entirly my fault.  Any grammer errors spotted in this article were put there because I could.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: Alfred.Kayser@dnpap.et.tudelft.nl (Alfred Kayser)
Subject: Re: **** TOP 10 LPMUDs ****
Keywords: opinions opinions opinions
Organization: Delft University of Technology, Dept. of Electrical Engineering
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 16:37:22 GMT

rdubbs@cs.tamu.edu (Roger B. Dubbs III) writes:
>I do resent the implication we aren't a mud any more.  Certainly we are
>trying to have a much more complex role-playing system than was possible
>under original Genesis, but the central thrust of the game is much the
>same.  (Kill monsters and solve Quests, hopefully with emphasis on the
>latter)

Genesis is a mud, one of the best (in implementation that is).
But when attacking an orc, which seems small enough for me,
the messages 'You mis' and 'he misses' exchange for a while,
(very long and in longer sentences...) than 'Orc hits you!'
'You're dead!!', etc.... 

The good thing about Genesis is that a lot of thought went into
longer descriptions, an extensive race and class system, and better
interactions between players, although it is difficult to meet people 
and easy to get lonelys sometimes...

At the bbs of Genesis, people remark that genesis is not a game anymore
as you can die to easily and loose all your stats and 'roleplaying'...

There two solutions to this problems. Either make dying less painfull,
as in action games, where you can get extra lives, but can keep the scores
until you've lost al your lives. Or make dying very hard, (as is reasonable 
implemented in the wimpy mode of most muds). 

The problem is now that after the first hit of the 'orc' i don't
pain or so, but must type 'vitals' to read some longish and inexact
message about my status. eq  'You're not feeling very well'. The second
hit of the orc, kills me in one blow....

Probrably as one advance in the game, and collects more armour and weapons
you're not killed by an orc, so easily, but IMHO a gameplayer
wants to have fun all the way, not just after playing a thousand hours....

Aside this little killing problem, I happy to play the role of
'Trickler the Hobbit', output of 'look at trickler'
You are a thinly-bearded young hobbit, presenting yourself as:
Trickler Squire of Solamnia, beginner, male hobbit.
You have scars on your left leg, right leg, left hand, forhead and left
cheek.
You are very short and skinny for a hobbit.
You look hideous.
You are in good shape.				   

As yoy can see the trickleroni likes to adventure...
>/Roger

>PS.  If Genesis interests you, despite Chris's remarks, feel free to come try
>us.  We are at milou.cd.chalmers.se 2000.  I highly recommend you read
>through the gameinfo screen before you play.  It nicely summarizes some
>of the command changes which have taken place.
  
Indeed try genesis, especially when they solved this little problem...
--
-- Ir. Alfred Kayser. PACS, OS/2, TCP/IP. --- Email: AKayser@et.tudelft.nl --
-- CARDIT, Delft University of Technology ------------ Tel: (31)-15-786179 --
-- P.O.Box 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands ------ Fax: (31)-15-784898 --
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: guddt@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (David Bennett)
Subject: Re: Genesis Debate
Keywords: More Genesis opinions :)
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 09:44:56 GMT

darius@starbird.WPI.EDU (Christopher J Scanlon) writes:
>>	The description system on Genesis, although well-designed, and
>>very extensive, is wholly useless.  An hour for one single character
>>generation?
>Here's where my disagreeing comes in.  I like the idea of people describing
>how you are, and that's why writing a little "describe" function is so nice.
>But you're right, the time taken to create the character... ow.

I wouldnt say wholy useless.  I quite liked the description system, I
didnt however like takeing seven hours to create my chararacter.
However...  I much prefer this system to the one on Distant Mirrors
where it picks all of your characteristics by itself and gives you no
choice whatsoever.  The createing of a description is a good idea, but I
belive in quick log ins to muds.  When I was building dw I kept this in
mind and the only thing it asked you before you logged on was your name
password and gender.  (PS Distant Mirrors also doesnt let you choose
your gender).  I in fact actually didn't use the races I had developed
because I felt that you cannot make a good choice about which race you
want to be until you have played the game.  I hate having to make
choices about things that are going to forever effect my characters
destiny without any prior knowlage.  We also built the skill system in
this way.  It started off giveing you a very narrow range of choices and
as you went up in levels the choices expanded.  It is a heiracical
system.  Haveing too many skills confuses the heck out of me.  and not
knowing what any of them mean it is very hard to figure out what to
do....

David.
[DDT] Pink fish forever.

Just my 2 frogs worth.
-- 
  David Bennett,  guddt@uniwa.uwa.oz.au | University Computer Club
     Where Pink fish swim backwards.    | c/o Guild of Undergraduates
These words I am singing now mean nothing more than meow to an animal - TMBG
Disclaimer: Any spelling mistakes in this article are all entirly my fault.  Any grammer errors spotted in this article were put there because I could.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: lpmud@merit.edu (LPmud (the game))
Subject: Re: CFD: mandala
Keywords: LPC
Organization: Merit Network, Inc.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:00:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.110245.20822@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, cmlee@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tom Chen-Ming Lee) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug15.143734.20725@mcshh.Hanse.DE> amylaar@mcshh.Hanse.DE (Joern Rennecke) writes:
|> >
|> >From time to time, you have an algorithm with a structure that won't fit nicely
|> >in the classic paradigm of 'structured programming'. One of these structures
|> >resembles a mandala.
|> >
|> >A prominent example of a mandala-structure is iterative rebalancing of
|> >avl-trees after a deletion.
|> 
|> 
|> No trick at all!  Just more of the same-o top-down programming methodology.
|> 
|> /***************************************************************************/
|> 
|> ying()
|> {
|>     stmt1;
|> 
|>     if (cond2) {
|> 	stmt2;
|> 	return ying();
|>     } 
|> 
|>     if (cond3) {
|> 	stmt3;
|> 	return yang();
|>     }
|> 
|>     stmt4;
|> }>     stmt1;
|> 
|>     if (cond2) {
|> 	stmt2;
|> 	return ying();
|>     } 
|> 
|>     if (cond3) {
|> 	stmt3;
|> 	return yang();
|>     }
|> 
|>     stmt4;
|> }
|> 
|> /***************************************************************************/
|> 
|> yang()
|> {
|>     stmt5;
|> 
|>     if (cond4) {
|> 	stmt6;
|> 	return ying();
|>     } 
|>     
|>     if (cond5) {
|> 	stmt7;
|> 	return yang();
|>     }
|> 
|>     stmt8;
|> }
|> 
|> /***************************************************************************/
|> 
|> mandala()
|> {   
|>     ying();
|>     yang();
|> }
|> 
|> /***************************************************************************/
|> 
|> Like it?  I hope it's correct.
|> 
|> 
|> - Piergeiron
|> 
|> >	amylaar


Have you ever experienced death by recursion?
I would be very concerned about that potential here
unless I knew that it was impossible to go more than
a couple levels deep here.

Also, be concerned about how well this scales. If this
will be a common object with many incarnations, it could
bring a system to its knees.

Use a finite-state machine instead.



#define YING_STATE 0
#define YANG_STATE 1
#define EXIT_STATE 2

mandala() {
	int state;

	for(state=YING_STATE; state != EXIT_STATE; ) {
		/*
		 * Evaluate only one YING/YANG state
		 * each time through this.
		 */
		if(state==YING_STATE) {
			stmt1;
			if (cond2) {
				stmt2;
				/* state doesn't change.
				 * state remains as:
				 * stat==YING_STATE
				 */

			} else if (cond3) {
				stmt3;
				state=YANG_STATE;
			} else {
				stmt4;
				state=EXIT_STATE;
			}

		/* It should be impossible to fall
		 * into this piece of code with
		 * state==EXIT_STATE
		 */
		} else {
			stmt5;
			if (cond4) {
				stmt6;
				state=YING_STATE;
			} else if (cond(5) {
				stmt7;
				/* again, state doesn't change. */
				
			} else {
				stmt8;
				state=EXIT_STATE;
			}
		}

	} /* for (state=YING_STATE,... */
)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: wizard@engin.umich.edu ()
Subject: RE:  Casino Games
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 19:13:50 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor


In article 2645 Eric Blade writes:

>     Sounds interesting.  The problem with the roulette wheel from Hero is
>that, like every other piece of code in the entire mud, it was wholly
>bug-ridden.  Remember the trash can? :)

   Of course I do...I made the trash can.  Ok, so I forgot to put a check in
it so players couldn't throw other players away (desting them)...minor detail.
I wouldn't qualify that as "wholly bug-ridden".  My FLIGHT POWERS, however,
WERE wholly bug-ridden, as were most of the other things I added to player.c
or living.c.  Considering I was a first-time godling and relatively new
coder, I think it could have been worse.  Of course, now that I can code
relatively well there's no telling what kind of bugs I can make... ;)
x
-- 
 "3 reasons why we can't make wiz in RL: **  Rich "Wichart" Chappell
    1)  We don't do enough killing.      **  wizard@warhol.art.umich.edu
    2)  There are too damn many quests!  **  wichart@aal.itd.umich.edu
    3)  The god doesn't sign on anymore. **  rgc@church-st.ccs.itd.umich.edu
From: amylaar@mcshh.Hanse.DE (Joern Rennecke)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: Looking for LPMUD for SYSV R4
Date: 20 Aug 92 04:24:50 GMT
Organization: Point of Presence & MCS Hamburg

miked@clark.edu (Mike Dunham) writes:

>In article <TRSNYDER.92Aug18230415@queen.mcs.Drexel.edu> trsnyder@mcs.Drexel.edu (Bob Snyder) writes:

>>
>>As in, a real AT&T UNIX(tm) machine?  SVR4 isn't saying much, as that is the
>>standard that a lot of Unix manufactures are heading towards.
>>

>ESIX Unix System Five Release 4(basically AT&T), I am not the system admin
>so I don't know the exact differences.

>>
>>What problems are you having?  Which driver?  Lars'?  DR?  CD?  "MudOS"?
>>

>I think the main problems I am having are with the IPC setup(due to the 
>fact that most of the lpmud's are written for BSD libraries). I also have
>a heck of a lot of redeclaration errors when compiling either Lars or CD(has
>something to do with malloc(it trys to redeclare the system malloc functions
>from <malloc.h>). I do manage to get it to compile but just after the message
>setting up ipc it promptly core dumps without any error messages.

>I have tried tracing the problem and have gotten as far as backend() and some
>function in that loop causes the core dump, beyond that I don't know?

Have you tried to compile with sysmalloc ? It's probably less efficient,
but nice to isolate problems.

	amylaar
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp