HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: ARF on Clinton/Gore
Date: 13 Sep 92 11:47:37 CST
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast 
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1992Sep11.133417.2784@cs.brown.edu>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
writes a lengthy text abusive of Jack Schmidling.

	[Lengthy and abusive text omitted]

	I found Schmidling's article interesting and informative.  I personally
don't care if ARF sings the Internationale (ultra-left) while saluting
a swastika (ultra-right) [both of which I seriously doubt] if he presents
his ideas with clarity.
	I too find the influence of AIPAC and the past history of US-Israeli
relations oftentimes disturbing...threatening peace in the Middle East
and unduly burdening the stressed-out US taxpayer.  I beieve, however, that
intelligent and thought-provoking commentary is what leads to useful
ideas and productive action.  I failed to find any in Keren's post...only
vituperaton for Mr. Schmidling.
	We do need a better and "mutually" beneficial policy with the
state of Israel.  One other comment:  I don't in any way feel that to
take issue with policies of the state of Israel or with AIPAC in any way
suggests anti-semitism.  I find it disgusting that variance of opinion
is often tagged as such.  Citizens of Israel are often at variance with
Israeli government policy.  
> 
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:19653 talk.politics.soviet:7708 soc.culture.greek:8518
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek
Subject: Advanced Racist Garbage Information Creator installed!
Date: 3 Sep 92 20:06:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 


TELEX from Ankara Turkey. Reporting by Ella McCoos.

Since a flowchart of the M.U.T.L.U. AI (Artificial Insult) system
was posted to S.C.GREEK, rapid developments have taken place around
whis top-secret project of the Turkish Ministry of Truth.

As the MUTLU web continues to be untagled, latest breaking
developments are being reported. Last night the following was found
inside a copy of "PlayTurk", a turkish men's magazine left at the
bathroom stalls at the Ancara International Airport.

The contents follow:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
CONFIDENTIAL
Subject ARGIC (Advanced Racist Garbage Information Creator)

 Turgut, you idiot! Didn't I tell you to be more careful with
important state documents? No wonder the our people have never heard
about the UN resolutions on Cyprus, you probably lost our copy at
some bordello, you moron!

Anyway, here goes: MUTLU has been seriously compromised. We cannot
allow the USENET readers to know MUTLU's real identity. We must do
something quickly. For this reason, the ANADOLU (Advanced Nonsence
And Deception Outgoing Link Unit) interface between MUTLU and
USENET has been replaced. ARGIC (Advanced Racist Garbage
Information Creator) has been installed to feed messages to USENET.

ARGIC uses the same message generator as MUTLU, in fact the first
few ARGIC messages are remarkably similar to older MUTLU postings.
We were not even able to change the HBM component in time, so the
old data merge format remains the same:
 1. First some posting is quoted.
 2. An insult from the HASAN database is then inserted.
 3. A quote from SHAW or other history-writing programs is
    usually then inserted.
 4. The message is then closed with a multi-line Armenian quote
    fabricated especially for us by the quotation fabrication
    department of the ministry.
 5. CAGLAN then adds as many cross-posting groups as possible.

The first few days of ARGIC usage have proven very productive,
especially since unsuspecting victims did not have the chance
to update their KILL files yet.

Yours,
(Signature Illegible)
                                                                           
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: rayes@Snake.mcs.kent.edu (Sandra Rayes)
Subject: Re: Brendan is a racist anti-semitic bigot
Organization: Kent State University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 09:08:01 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.173916.14354@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>While I have major problems with most of David Makowsky's opinions - and
>the rest of the net knows this - about the nature of Zionism and
>specifically referring to Kach - I must agree with David that the charge
>that Ambassador Goldberg "more like he represented Israel than like he
>represented the US" is quite far out of line.  The charge of dual
>loyalty is a common tactic used against American Jews by anti-Semites.
>Alan Dershowitz documents this in great detail in his book "Chutzpah."
>I don't think - yet - that in Brendan's case that this is an indication
>of anti-Semitism; it's the first time I've seen him use this charge.
>Brendan, I suggest you reconsider your use of language here.  Seriously.
>

Eric, while I did not get the entire thread (having been in N.M. for a month)
I am wondering what is so offensive about accusing someone of dual loyalty,
and indeed, if dual loyalty is such a bad thing.  Example, as you know,
I am German-American and still feel a sense of loyalty to Germany.  Is
this bad??

I don't think it is fair to accuse someone of Anti-Semitism simply because
they question someone's loyalty...especially if that loyalty is well-based
in ethno-religious similarities.  In fact, I believe 99% of American Jews
feel a sense of loyalty to Israel and defend Israel out of that loyalty
due to ethno-religious connections.  Many American boys serve in the
Israeli military without doing the same for the US.  So what is so
bad about that??  No one questions that, least of all Jewish people.

I think given that Goldberg's interpretation of 242 differs widely from
that of the rest of the SC, and the following Councils who reaffirmed
242, it is a fair to suggest that perhaps Goldberg's background and 
loyalty to his "ancestral home" may certainly play a part in his
interpretation of 242.

And it really is unfair to suggest anti-Semitism just about every time
someone disagrees with that singular interpretation of 242. (Goldberg's)

Sandra.


>
>-- 
>"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
>A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
>     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
>  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf)
Subject: Re: Fair Swap
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 23:55:27 GMT

clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen) writes:

>In article <Bu862M.7@news.cso.uiuc.edu> eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf) writes:

>   Jews have always, for the last 2000 years, been the majority in
>   Jerusalem.  

>This statement is clearly incorrect.

>Jews were banished from Jerusalem following the Bar Kochba revolt (135
>CE).  The Romans and then the Byzantines did not even allow Jews in to
>visit (except to lament before the Western Wall on Tisha b'Av).  Only
>when the city was taken over by the Persians in 614 CE, were Jews
>once again permitted to visit and reside in Jerusalem.

I stand corrected.  There was a time when Jews were not a majority in
Jerusalem.  However, Jews have been a majority in Jerusalem in recent
times, even before the major influxes into Palestine.

Ed Shnekendorf.

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:19859 talk.politics.soviet:7848 soc.culture.greek:8754 soc.culture.europe:8309 soc.history:8194 soc.culture.jewish:15745
From: ronf@panther3.panther.mot.com (Ron Feigen)
Subject: Re: How Much Did The U.S. Get?
Organization: Motorola Panther Project, Chandler, AZ
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 23:11:55 GMT

In article <3745@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>I wonder how much money and/or oil the United States received
>for planning and participating in the invasion of Kuwait versus
>its full-scale war against Iraq?

I wonder where you come up with this bull.  Bush is an idiot (given) for 
thinking that he could keep Saddam in line.  However if Iraq was "crushed"
by Iran, wouldn't it be Iran that would be trying to "rule" the mideast.  What
is this quest to be the "one true ruler" of the ME that so infects the "Royal
Families".

>
>I also wonder how Saddam benefitted out of the deal - is he
>allowed to remain Iraq's President for life still?

Regardless of what the US does Saddam will be in power for the rest of his life!
The question should be "How long will the SOB be allowed to live?"

>
>I wonder still, when the people in the U.S. will learn of
>these deep, dark secrets of the CIA ... will they blindly
>support the re-election of such a dictator?

Who is a dictator?  Bush?  Scum, stupid, blind, yes.  dicator no.  When will you
stop blaming the world for the failing of your own gov'ts.

>
>Reminds me of the movie, JFK, when it was said that it doesn't
>matter how many lives are lost or what the sacrifices are -
>as long as the business of war and corruption continues ...
>if it was $80 Billion back in the 60's and 70's, what the
>going rate today?

I don't know perhaps you should ask the Iranians, Syrians, or Iraqi's.

>
>When are people going to wake up?

When are you going to stop forwarding consipracy theories and start taking 
responsibility for your own future.  The WEST/US/Jews/Israel are to blame
for all "evil" in the Muslim World.  The West is "afraid" of the spread of
Islam so it "sabotages" Islamic countries, and turns them against each other.
Blah, blah, blah, ...........  The leaders of the "Islamic" countries that abuse
their citizens, are just western puppets, it is the Wests fault for the 
abuse of the "Ruling Families".  The British created the Bahai to destroy Islam.
The 70's oil embargo that turned the West upside down was a ruse, to make 
the Muslim population of oil producing countries "believe" that their rulers
are not western puppets.  Mulsim countries are poor because the west is 
explioting the ME for oil.  After all at $20 a barrel and Billions in revenues
each year the West is hardly paying anything for this resource.  

>Anisa
> 


-- 

>
Ron Feigen
ronf@panther.mot.com
From: flax@frej.teknikum.uu.se (Jonas Flygare)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: A naive question about the law of return
Date: 15 Sep 1992 11:18:07 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Control and Systems, Teknikum, Uppsala
Distribution: world
Reply-To: flax@mizar.docs.uu.se
NNTP-Posting-Host: frej.teknikum.uu.se

In article <25850@castle.ed.ac.uk>, egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:

|> If one can become Jewish by conversion, then it cannot be the case that
|> the Jews are 100% a people evicted byt the Romans.

I'd insert a 'of today' somewhere in the above.

|> But then you would still have to supply a rationale for the victims of
|> Nazism being accommodated in a Middle Esatern country. Should Israel also
|> be a homeland for gypsies, homosexuals, the insane, Communists, and other
|> groups persecuted by the Nazis?

You are missing a point here. Israel is a jewish state. 
Being a gypsy/homosexual/insane/communist is usually secondary, when it
comes to nationality. I don't think that the homosexual germans that survived 
want to move anywhere, if they feel that they are German. By the same
token jews who claim Israeli citizenship identify with the Israeli 
state first should be regarded as Israeli. 
The attributes you listed are usually _not_ exclusive. There might be some
homosexual people of nationality X who rather live in a nation founded
on that concept, but I rather doubt they ever gain such a majority as to
succeed.

What you are suggesting is that we apply a VICTIM label to all people
mistreated by the Nazis, and ship them to a certain geographical area 
on that criterion. It's like trying to represent music with 1 bit.
The victims are of a broader range than that, and the ranges overlap 
as well. Most important, I feel that it must be _their_ choice.

Also: Remember that the jews (and gypsies) both had a history of being 
not-quite-accepted in society. Given the events that took place during 
WWII, would you stay in a nation that treated you thus?
I think many of the hs/communists felt german, in spite of what were 
done to them. (insane left out for obvious reasons)

As for the reason to found an Israeli state in the Middle East:
The Jews have a history in the region, there was an indigenous jewish
poulation, and the area was controlled by Great Britain, who agreed
to leave. (Not all that voluntarily, as goes for the french and 
germans as well, in Syria and other neighbouring countries)

|> Indeed a disgraceful state of affairs, but not really a reason for the 
|> Palestinians to pay for the choice of some people to elect to become Jews.

Agreed. Now, am I to understand that you suggest we dismantle the whole 
state of Israel, returning it to the englishmen and start over?
Or should we send all the victims (and their descendants) of WWII to 
England instead? 

--------------------------------------------------------
Jonas Flygare, 		+ Wherever you go, there you are
V{ktargatan 32 F:621	+
754 22 Uppsala, Sweden	+
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:19856 talk.politics.soviet:7845 soc.culture.greek:8751 soc.culture.europe:8306 soc.history:8191 news.admin:7556
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Re: Hi There!!
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 14:00:35 GMT

In article <Bu6H6w.A8z@wpi.WPI.EDU> nyh@wpi.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed) writes:
>
>
>	Am I back?  I donno...  I just decided to drop by and say hi.
>
>	I for one kept my promise not to post till the end of [last]
>month - we can't say that for every posters here on TPM [does the name
>Jack rings a bell? :)].
>
>
>	In a few days I will be starting school [nyh in the new and
>improoved grad student version] so I will probably just browse around
>- I'll try to stay out of unproductive arguments [as always :)] but I
>have a feeling that I won't stay long.
>
>
>	On my way in [before I cancled some 70 articles] I saw that my
>dearest friend Anisa still tries to force religion on Zionism - Anisa,
>you are wrong - the bible is used merly as a history book - that's
>all.
>
>
>
>	Hope you all enjoyed my leave - 
>
>		-Nevo
>-- 
>Nevo Y. Hed ............. nyh@wpi.wpi.edu .....................................
>++1-508-754-2491 ........ CS student, Worcester Polytechnic Institute .........
>"I like my cigar too, but I take it out of my mouth from time to time" G.Marx .

Hello there Nevo, How is it going? Nice to hear from you again. Did you have a 
vacation? did you go back home? Good luck in your school.



-- 
Nabil Idriss                           |       FOR EVERY ACTION AN OPPOSITE  
NCR - Midrange Products Division       |       AND EQUAL REACTION.
      Columbia, South Carolina         |      
email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:19801 soc.culture.jewish:15709
From: friedenb@topaz.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: A naive question about the law of return
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:01:02 GMT
Reply-To: friedenb@topaz.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University

In article <1992Sep10.143943.11216@cbfsb.cb.att.com> mmokhtar@attmail.com (Mazen Mokhtar) writes:

>  If I am one of the children of Israel and my ancestors converted from Judaism
>and accepted Islam, does this give me the right to emigrate to Israel? Is
>this logical?

I was always taught in Hebrew School/Yeshiva that once a Jew, always a Jew; 
and that it is impossible to convert away from Judaism.  Even though one 
may accept Islamic (or Christian, etc) law, and repudiate Jewish law,
a person who was born Jewish or who had an acceptable conversion into 
Judaism will henceforth be bound by Jewish law forever.

BUT, there was a case in Israel in the last few years.  A man who had
'converted' away from Judiasm wanted to make aliyah in order to 
further his missionary activities to get Jews to 'convert' to his
religion.  He was born of a Jewish mother, yet the Israeli Supreme
Court rejected his application for aliyah.

I think that the press referred to him as Brother Jed, or Uncle Bob
or something like that.

>Regards,

Me, too.

>Mazen Mokhtar
 
Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
-=-Michigan State University

                   
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Hi There!!
Date: 9 Sep 92 18:55:43 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <Bu6H6w.A8z@wpi.WPI.EDU> nyh@wpi.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed) writes:
>
Hi Nevo ....

>	I for one kept my promise not to post till the end of [last]
>month - we can't say that for every posters here on TPM [does the name
>Jack rings a bell? :)].

You mean ... Jake? 

>	On my way in [before I cancled some 70 articles] I saw that my
>dearest friend Anisa still tries to force religion on Zionism - Anisa,
>you are wrong - the bible is used merly as a history book - that's
>all.

Hmmm... if I am your "dearest friend", why do you publically flame
me? 

>	Hope you all enjoyed my leave - 
>		-Nevo

We'll enjoy your stay even more if you just be nice and sweet ...

Anisa

	"Take my words that I might teach you ... take my
	arms that I might reach you.."

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bgdv706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Noam Tractinsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: A naive question about the law of return
Date: 13 Sep 92 00:47:18 GMT
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin

In article <25703@castle.ed.ac.uk>, egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:

> If my ancestors converted to Judaism, does this give me the right to
> emigrate to Israel? Is this logical? Why (not)?


	Unfortunately it does (depending on how remote those 
	ancestors are). It is logical if you accept the premises
	on which the state of Israel has been built.

	I, for one, have my doubts concerning the naivete mentioned
	in the subject line.

 
> -- 
> =======Jeremy Henderson========egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk===============


Noam
From: adam@endor.uucp (Adam Shostack)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Post-Sadam Iraq
Date: 14 Sep 92 02:58:12 GMT
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University

In article <1992Sep14.005008.28373@usl.edu> pssres12@ucs.usl.edu (Vignes Gerard M) writes:
>In article <1992Sep13.232533.16611@das.harvard.edu> adam@endor.uucp (Adam Shostack) writes:

|>(And just so you'll follow up, and maybe actually discuss these
|>issues, heres some tpm flame bait, pick one and flame, as long as you
|>answer a few of the above questions:
|
|>1.  Jordan is Palestine
|>2.  Jerusalem is an Arab city
|>3.  Pick one: (Iran/Kuwait) is a (disgrace to/model for) the arab world.
|
|	Adam is becoming more sophisticated
|	in his efforts to attract our attention :-)

Thanks, but you could at least discuss some of *the* issues?  :)

(See, I use the definite article here to refer to the relevant issues
that Vignes so kindly ignored. ;)


Adam Shostack 					adam@das.harvard.edu

What a terrible thing to have lost one's .sig.  Or not to have a .sig
at all.  How true that is.      
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Re: The Ugly Palestinian
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 14:02:40 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.034830.7370@usl.edu> pssres12@ucs.usl.edu (Vignes Gerard M) writes:
>	If Hanan Aswari is the Good Palestinian,
>	and Ahhmed Jebril is the Bad Palestinian,
>	can you guess who Yassar Arafat is?
>

Look in the mirror and you will find out.



-- 
Nabil Idriss                           |       FOR EVERY ACTION AN OPPOSITE  
NCR - Midrange Products Division       |       AND EQUAL REACTION.
      Columbia, South Carolina         |      
email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf)
Subject: Re: Israel's peace talks with Syria
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 21:03:51 GMT

bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:

>In article 9wB@news.cso.uiuc.edu, eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf) writes:
>>Read up on Deir Yassin - it isn't as clear cut of a case of massacre as you
>>think - there are several good accounts which contradict your version of the
>>story. 

>T.p.m's resident Kachist, David Makowsky, just announced a party.
>I hope you realise that the best evidence of a massacre comes from 
>Haganah sources.  In order to discount it, you need to believe in some
>fiendish conspiracy involving the Haganah, the Brits and the Red Cross.

Not neccesarily a conspiracy - there is no doubt that it was in the Haganah's
interest to discredit the Irgun and Lehi.  I've seen several accounts and all
of them admit to the fact that there were Arab irregulars stationed in the 
village.  Even if civilians were killed, it is very irresponsible to label
this as a massacre.  There is a big difference between soldiers coming in 
with the express intent of murdering innocent people and civilians being
injured and killed as a result of actual fighting.

>> Once again, have you ever heard of Gush Etzion?  Sorry, the arguments
>>go both ways here.

>Arab irregular forces massacred Jewish civilians and disarmed soldiers
>at Gush Etzion.  Allowing for the overdramatisation which one would normally
>expect, the accounts in good history books are basically correct.  The
>only serious misconception is the role of the Arab Legion (Jordanian 
>force commanded by British officers).  I have seen accounts claiming that
>the Arab Legion conducted the massacre.  However, the few Jewish survivors
>say that they owe their lives to the Arab Legion arriving and stopping it.

My only point is that uniquely castigating the Jews because of Deir Yassin
is ignoring the flip side of the story.  If you argue Deir Yassin, you must
also admit to Gush Etzion.  The argument cuts both ways.  

>>Ed Shnekendorf.

>Brendan.

Ed.
From: pssres12@ucs.usl.edu (Vignes Gerard M)
Subject: Re: How Much Did The U.S. Get?
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern La., Lafayette
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 02:38:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.204013.1@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu> bgdv706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Noam Tractinsky) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.085110.4534@mcs.kent.edu>, rayes@Snake.mcs.kent.edu (Sandra Rayes) writes:
>
>> Ha!  I heard, from a Kuwaiti woman mind you, that the young ladies
>> of Kuwait live in fear that the Emir might spot them sometime and
>> demand to marry them...then divorce them the following week.  It
>> seems mut'ah is a fashion with our Emir...
>
>
>	Can someone corroborate this horror story?

	Well... is he cute?

	We already know he has lots of money :-)

-- 

pssres12@ucs.usl.edu	Gerard Vignes, USL PO Box 42709, Lafayette LA 70504 USA

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast