HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: klf@druwa.ATT.COM (FranklinKL)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Car Phones
Keywords: Hand free operation
Date: 22 Dec 92 21:13:55 GMT
Distribution: rec


In Message: <1992Dec22.163427.18691@dg-rtp.dg.com>
goudreau@batman.rtp.dg.com (Bob Goudreau) blathers:

>In article <1992Dec22.122412.28101@mips2.ma30.bull.com> K.Buck@ma30.bull.com writes:
>>>doesn't require the use of hands to use - 
>>
>> i'm all in favor of that, but let's add "PLEASE make sure its a model
>> that doesn't require the use of a BRAIN to use"...
>> in my opinion, phone conversations risk devoting too much attention
>> from the task of driving, even with hands-free operation.
>
>So I trust that you also never engage in driver-passenger conversation
>while in a moving vehicle?  And if you do, please explain the
>fundamental difference between that and hands-free phone use.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob, wake up and smell the coffee!  There is a good deal of difference.
In the first place, I don't EVER recall having to dial a code and press
"SEND" to gain access to a passenger in my car.  The act of dialling
is the kind of thing that can distract the driver from his most important
function, controlling the car.  Even if the person is the recipient of a call,
some push-button kind of activation is necessary to receive the call.
Did you ever try to perform any tasks on the push button controls of
a cellular phone without looking at the phone?  In most cases, the
buttons are small enough and the numbers difficult enough to read, that
a significant diversion of the drivers attention from the task at
hand would be necessary to properly complete the phone oriented
function.

--
Ken Franklin 	They say there's a heaven for people who wait
AMA     	And some say it's better but I say it ain't
GWRRA           I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
DoD #0126       The sinners are lots more fun, Y'know only the good die young
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser)
Subject: Re: Anti-Lock Brakes makes stopping SAFER?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 18:13:47 GMT

tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett) writes:
>johns@trident.datasys.swri.edu (Stephen Johns) writes:

>> I've driven cars with and without ABS, and I will NEVER own a car
>> without ABS again.

>So far ABS has helped in wet conditions, and my car monitors all four
>wheels.  I had an experieince that disturbs me, however.

Can someone shed some light on the following situation I had in a rented
1993 Olds Acheiva?:

I was travelling real slow on an interstate highway during some bad weather.
Slow, meaning 35 mph or so.  Traffic was moderate, but was not dealing
with the situation real well 'cause there were wrecks every 10-20 miles or
so.  Worst part was the bridges.  Anyway, as I would go over a bridge or
overpass, I could feel the car go off track slightly, resisting the urge to
brake, I'd accelerate a teensy bit.  No problem there.  But when I exited
the highway, I got stuck behind an extremely slow truck.  He'd brake to
a near stop then move on and brake and move on and brake, etc.  When I
came up behind him, I was on an overpass and going maybe 5 mph or so.
So I braked to avoid getting too close, and what happens?  The car slides.
Not a fish tail or anything like that, but you know, a little transverse
and longitudinal slipping.  So I let off the brakes and recover, applying
them softly and intermittently.  Suddenly I was transformed back to
winter driving in my '81 Malibu!  (Great car.  Beat the hell out of it.
Wish I still had it.  My first car, ya know.  <sniff>)

So what's the deal with GM's ABS?  Does it not work on ice at slow speeds?
I really doubt that there was something wrong with the system.  The car
was brand-spanking new when they handed me the keys.  I never tried it
out on a lone road from 75mph to 0, though.

Anyone?  Anyone?

Regards,

Brian

bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am the engineer, I can choose K.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Department of Engineering Mechanics
Ohio State University
Columbus, OH
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: matth@progress.COM (Matthew J. Harper)
Subject: Re: Anti-Lock Brakes makes stopping SAFER?
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:46:40 GMT

johns@trident.datasys.swri.edu (Stephen Johns) writes:

>I have rarely, if ever, had the ABS system kick in on dry/normal road
>conditions.  An exception is when your cruising about 80, not watching where
>you are all that closely, and notice the road you want to turn on is 20 ft in
>front of you, hit the brakes and throw the car into the corner, the ABS will
>keep you from sliding sideways through the intersection.  Without ABS your
>only option would be to not turn.

  And this is supposed to be an example of how ABS makes driving *SAFER*?

  I'm soooo glad I don't live where you do!

-Matth
--
          Matthew J. Harper ! Progress Software Corp. ! {disclaimer.i}         
   God created heaven and earth to grow barley and hops. Now he homebrews !-)  

     Starve a lawyer!  Boycott Sam Adams and Jim Koch's BS legal tactics!
From: pjay@terapin.com (Paul Arnold)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Saturn SL2: the REAL test drive..
Date: 3 Jan 93 12:24:49 PST
Organization: BBS

>I'm curious now. tell me and I'll tell you whatever you need to know that I
>can remember, otherwise you'll have to wait till I go home again.
>

Could ya tell us everything about the car that you've experienced?
 
 
I am getting a new car, and am interested in the Saturns.  I've decided that
if I get a Saturn, it would probably be the SL2.
 
I'vee had a chance to see the cars, and talk to quite a few people about them
(at car shows and dealers.)  I've yet to drive one, but I have plans to do
that in about three more weeks.
 
 
About the only major complaint I've seen is the engine noise problem.  It
sounds as though the problem had been somewhat improved with the 92 & 93
models, but how much?  (I guess I'll find out when I test drive one for
myself.)

Anyone else out there with some good/bad experiences with any of the Saturns?


I'd appreciate any info anyone has on this new company/car.

Thanks...

  --Paul   (pjay@terapin.com)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jrs@cbnews.cb.att.com (jeff.sherota)
Subject: Re: LH test-drive results (by a buyer)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 07:20:19 GMT

In article <1hqjh4INNfn3@menudo.uh.edu> esl_manager@gimme.uh.edu () writes:
>Hi 
>
>   ...    you would know that I really try hard to buy American. Like
                                                        ^^^^^^^^
>most people, I have seen all or almost all of the TV commericals about
>the LH, the code name for the Dodge Intrepid, Eagle Vision and the
>Chrysler Concorde.

>                     ...                       but, again, should I try
>so hard to buy American?
                ^^^^^^^^

Arthur,

I believe the Chrysler LH cars are built in Canada.  True they are built in
North America, but that's still not quite the same as being built in the U.S.A.
With GM moving Camaro/Firebird (and rumoring Corvette) production to Canada.
As well as Ford building several "domestic" cars outside the U.S.A.  I think
the US auto manufacturers could try harder to build cars in the US.

                                      Jeff
From: dloyer@zacson4.EBay.Sun.COM (Dennis Loyer)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: REQUEST: options?
Date: 31 Dec 1992 21:08:44 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dloyer@zacson4.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: zacson4.ebay.sun.com
Keywords: 
     I wasn't sure how to describe this request, anyway here goes.


     Is ther anyone out there who knows how I can obtain information as to what
options were originally sold with my car ('77 Datsun 280Z), I know what options
were available, however, I would like to restore this car to the way it was when
it rolled off the lot.  Is there an orginization that can track my car by VIN
number, even if I only get the name and address of the original owner, they might
be able to tell me what options they purchased with it.

                                           Thanks in advance.
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Before Buying Japanese.
Date: 31 Dec 92 22:07:30 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation

In article <9212311846.AA07363@heartland.bradley.edu_> tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu writes:
> 
>3.  Those people who dismiss these problems and assume that 
>matters will take care of themselves seem to be naive, or at the 
>very least, "short sighted."
> 
  And those people who blame the Japanese for the US's internal lack
  of vision, foresight, economics education, education in general,
  and really rotten management are only kidding themselves.  The
  Japanese didn't do a damn thing to us we didn't do to ourselves.

  If American cars hadn't been total crap at the time the Japanese
  PAID ATTENTION TO THE MARKET (and worse yet, did so using tools
  philosophies, and techniques WE taught them), the US car companies
  wouldn't be in this fix.

  It's ALWAYS easy to lie to yourself and try to blame someone else
  for your stupidity, but in the long run it's counter-productive.
  If it wasn't Japan, it would be someone else.   

  And as long as we engage in stupid, shortsighted, rhetoric and
  Japan-bashing we will get results that only hurt the US, the US
  consumer, and never will be competitive in the truly nasty world
  markets.
From: gt6280d@prism.gatech.EDU (John S. Cobb)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Re: Do SPOILERS Really Work???
Date: 25 Dec 92 05:50:45 GMT
Followup-To: rec.autos
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In <1hcohcINN7gk@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:

>>>On a plane spoilers are used to increase drag and lift dramatically.

>I haven't looked closely at the spoiler design on a 747 but on the
>DC10, 727, and 737 at full extension the spoilers extend outward
                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>behind the wing as well as downward. 
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
Er...the extensions off the back of the wings are called "flaps."
They DO increase drag and lift by effectively making the wing larger.
 
"Spoilers" are generally panels on the top surface of the wing that
can be moved to a verticle position to increase drag greatly.

--J.S. Cobb
 
-- 
_____________________________________________________________________________ 
 John S. Cobb                            |<THE WORDS ABOVE ARE EXCLUSIVELY 
 Georgia Tech/Saturn Corporation (Co-Op) |      THE OPINIONS OF THE AUTHOR>
 INTERNET:  gt6280d@prism.gatech.edu     |
From: ce423@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Josh Lackey III)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Chain Driven "New" Cars?
Date: 3 Jan 1993 21:58:33 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ce423@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Josh Lackey III)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu



>ce423@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Josh Lackey III) writes:
>>
>>
>>  The only thing that concerns me about these cars is how the transmission
>>is linked to the gearbox. The engine is not tranverse mounted, but 
>>longitudinally mounted which is fine. The car is front wheel driven,
>>which is also OK. The transmission mounts to the back of the engine,
>>and is very similar to the conventional front-engine/rear-wheel-driven
>>design, but is linked to front gearbox using a chain. 
>>-- 

>Based on the above experience, I wouldn't worry about the chain. it is about
>the most reliable part of the trasmission.
>-- Dan Meyer


The stresses in a chain linking the engine to the transmission via a
torque-converter would be somewhat less than a chain linking the
transmission to the the gear box. In the later case, the RPM would
be signifigantly less, but forces signifigantly greater. I'm more interested
in the history of the use of chains in the later stages of of the
drive train actually. ...  Chains have always been used in engines
to drive the cam shaft, and now-a-days even gear belts are doing the
job reliably. Though, it will be a while before we see gear belts in the drive
trains of automobiles I would guess?



-- 
Josh Lackey III      Internet E-Mail:     ce423@cleveland.freenet.edu 
                                          lackey@eglin.af.mil
Newsgroups: rec.autos

In rec.autos, tt300zx@milton.u.washington.edu (twin turbo 300zx) writes:

> >[civic stuff deleted]
> >
> >    --And, on top of it all, you could have bought a superior car from a dealer
> >      that is DYING to sell you a Legacy for $12,000, instead of dealing with
> >      a bunch of snotty Honda salespeople that you have to wrestle with to get
> >      the Civic for $12,000.
> >
> >don't know about the soob (haven't driven one yet), but fully agree about the
> >honda dealers.  over here, no test drive until you've paid up and signed the
> >papers (then you can test drive it all you want :-)).  you wanna test the car 
> >b4 buying?  sure, we'll start it up and you can listen to the smooth idle.  
> >needless to say, i walked.
> >lawrence
>
> 	i know that ACuRA makes very nice cars and have very nice sales-
> 	people helping you but HoNDA just plain sucks. i have a friend
> 	who ALSO recently bought a brand new civic 4-dr and guess what?
> 	couple days ago, his engine suddenly went off and the steering
> 	wheel got STUCK! -- then he couldn't control the direction and
> 	ran into the freeway exit post on interstate-5. it's just
> 	unbelievable. i guess people go for civic's price and maybe
> 	the newly-designed 'round shape' but if u want performance,
> 	get a 4-dr integra instead. :) /tt300zx@u.washington.edu

Actually, Acura *is* Honda -- the more upmarket arm, at least for US.  I
believe in countries with furriners (eg me), the Legend is sold as the Honda
Legend.  Acura was invented so that the consumer, who had a long mental
linkage of Honda and economy cars, would think that this was a new brand of
upmarket cars with an all new, customer-oriented sales (and after-sales) 
approach.  Looks like it worked.  Ditto for Infiniti and Lexus.  BTW, we have
"Toyota Lexus <model name>" sold here.

Honda probably knew they couldn't pull off this marketing wool-over-the-eye 
name change, so we're still stuck with the arrogant Honda people.  

There must be a lot of masochists around here, seeing that Honda has a major
market share.  They all must get a kick out out of being shafted :-).  Maybe I
should be a Honda salesman.  NOT.


Marketing for the Integra here is poor (GS-R version not imported).  Firstly, 
we only used to get the 1.4l version.  what a dog.  Obviously, it didn't 
sell.  Since then (4-5 years ago), the Integra has not been sold here.  It was 
seen to not have a niche; Civic for economy, Accord for upmarket (well, 
relatively).  Similarly, the Concerto (aka Rover 214/216) and the City didn't 
sell well.  Now that we get 2.0 and 2.2l Accords, the Concerto is left to 
fight for the 1.6l market share (new lease of life).  For tax reasons, we 
used to get the 1.6l Accords only.  Slow (86 hp only), sluggish, soggy 
suspension and feather-lite power steering at 120kmph; scary.

Personally, I have nothing against Honda *cars*, after all, I use appliances 
like washing machines, vacuum cleaners etc.  Its the sales scum that put me 
off.


lawrence
From: esl_manager@gimme.uh.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Sorry for the duplicate postings
Date: 29 Dec 1992 21:11:12 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
Reply-To: esl_manager@gimme.uh.edu ()
NNTP-Posting-Host: gimme.cc.uh.edu

There was some weird messages from my dxrn s/w after I posted the articles.
I apologise for the duplicate postings.
--
Arthur
From: rpalmer@Think.COM (Ralph Palmer)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Electric Vehicle myths
Date: 30 Dec 1992 15:49:36 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: basie.think.com


|> 
|>    How do you figure? Since IC engines are, at best, 25% 
|> efficient, how could they compare to generating facilities that 
|> are about 90% eff and EVs that are more than 80% eff?

If you have a fossil fuel or nuke electrical generating plant that is 90%
efficient you have violated thermodynamics. Even fuel cells are only on
the order of 65-80% eff.  Ideal Carnot efficiencies are (T1-T2)/T1 or about:
T1=max steam temp 500f=900c=1173 Kelvin
T2=lower cooling temp=70f=25c=300 Kelvin
	(1173-300)
	---------  = 74%
	   1173

If you can design such a plant let me know, we'll both be rich...
Perhaps someone more proficient in thermo can correct my mistakes.

Since power plants are at best 30% efficient not including transmission
losses the actual efficiency of EV are more on the order of .3*.8=.24 or
about 24% efficient.  The main problem I have with EV lovers is they tend
to forget where the electrons that charge the batteries are comming from.
An EV would only be a 0 discharge transpot if you plug it into Diablo 
Canyon or some other Nuke plant.  There is some benifit to charging 
at night to help level load the power grid.  Does anyone have real data
that says running a fleet of EV's that recharge from a coal fired plant
is cleaner that a current auto?  Does anyone have data to back up the 
claim that tail pipe emissions have been reduced by 95% since 1968?

The other problem with EV's is that the only current viable battery 
soruce is a lead/acid battery.  I don't know how you can consider it
to be environmently responsible to be driving around sitting on a 
half ton of lead acid batteries.  Don`t forget that the batteries also
produce hydrogen.  Can't you see the accident scene now with burning
lead and spilling acid all over the place, not to mention possible 
hydrogen explosions.

Battery technology is the limiting factor in EV design, period.  There
is no battery type avilable now that makes economic or environmental
sense.  I know that there are the people who like to believe that the
problem has been solved but is hidden by the evil oil companies right
next to the 200 mpg carb and the pill you add to water to make it into
gas.  Just figure out what they use in Star Trek to power those phasers
and you have solved the problem.

|> 
|>    Let's hear you arguments against the immediate conversion to 
|> renewable alcohol as an interim solution.
|> 
This is an easy one, burning alcohol produces a whole host of other
pollutants like formaldehyde that we currently do not measure for
in tail pipe testing, so they look clean.  I will agree that it makes
sense to work on fuel blends to reduce emissions.

				Ralph Palmer
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.vw
From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: 1990 Audi 100 S...
Organization: clearer than blir
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 09:57:38 GMT


>In article <UfB_V8200iV081Ib0S@andrew.cmu.edu> "Joseph D. Mazza" <mazz+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>As to the 100LS engine, the inclined, straight 5 cyl (Or was it 4? Can't
>>remember.) was originally developed and abandoned by MB.  Good thing. 
>>It was a dog. 

just to clear things up, the audi 5 banger never appeared until the
mid 1970s in the second generation 100/5000.  this engine is not a
relative of the one found in the 100LS; it is a relative of the 1781
cc OHC VW/Audi 4.  it has a fine reputation of being one of the most
bulletproof engines on the market today.  racing variants of this
engine have produced in excess of 600 bhp and the current one found in
the audi s4 produces over 100 bhp/liter and max torque at 1950 rpm at
the same time.


eliot
From: morton@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Brent Morton)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: 1990 Audi 100 SUCKS !!!!!!!!!!!!e+10
Date: 22 Dec 92 20:44:15 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada

In article <mills.725036435@amber.athena.lkg.dec.com> mills@athena.lkg.dec.com (George Mills) writes:
>
>That's bull. It was the AUDI-5000 automatic hear and there was something
>very wrong with that car. I saw a few "special programs done" (yes,
>by the media) it was very convincing something was wrong with the car.
>So what, even if it was the peddles, THAT CAR KILLED people.

If it was the pedals (and it was) the people killed themselves. I remember
reading an experiment that Road & Track did a couple of years ago, in which
the magazine's editors actually observed people with their foot on the gas
who, while accelerating backwards or forwards, maintained that their foot was
actually on the brake. How convenient for people to be able to blame their
mistake on the car. In 1987 Audi moved the pedals and the sudden-acceleration
myth began to dissipate. Audi's sales are only just now beginning to increase
in the US. A real shame that it took so long.

-- Brent
morton@prolix.gaul.csd.uwo.ca
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche)
Subject: Re: 1990 Audi 100 SUCKS !!!!!!!!!!!!e+10
Organization: MetaPro Systems, Perth, Western Australia
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 02:03:25 GMT

In <92357.104624SROWELL@ESOC.BITNET> <SROWELL@ESOC.BITNET> writes:

>I think the US gives Audi a bad press (oh by the way although I live in
>Germany I am English) - it reminds me of the furore a few years ago when
>one of your TV programmes 'discovered' that Audi 100s had a tendency to
>surge backwards all of a sudden 'for no reason'. Apparently the problem
>was traced to the fact that the foot pedals in the Audi were smaller than
>standard US feet were used to, and people were stamping on the accelerator
>rather than the brake. That 'publicity' did Audi a lot of harm in the US
>when it was really a user problem (having big feet). I do not remember

I've always been convinced that feet grow to fit the size of the mouth :-)
-- 
+-----+ Bernd Felsche                     _--_|\  #include <std/disclaimer.h>
| | | | MetaPro Systems Pty Ltd          /      \ bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au
| | | | 328 Albany Highway,              X_.--._/         Fax: +61 9 472 3337
|m|p|s| Victoria Park, Western Australia 6100  v        Phone: +61 9 362 9355
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: tasallot@mprgate.mpr.ca (Mathew Tasalloti)
Subject: Re: Car bras
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 20:06:06 GMT


Although I like the looks of bra's and their functionality as far as
reducing rock chips, I have seen a couple of paint jobs totally destroyed
due to the moisture build up between the car body and the bra.

A friend of mine had a bra on his Firebird and this is exactly what 
took place.  The paint under the bra started peeling off after a while...
even worste were the fiberglass parts like the air scoop at the very front.

Apparantly, the bra should be removed if the bra is wet and there is a lot of
sunshine ?!?!?

=============================================******>>

  Mathew Tasalloti		Internet: tasallot@mprgate.mpr.ca
  MPR Teltech Ltd.
  Vancouver, BC, Canada    

              <<******==================================================
Newsgroups: rec.autos