From: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad)
Subject: Re: NUKE IRAQ
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 10:33:56 GMT

martillo@stars.clearpoint.com (Joachim Martillo) writes:
: 
: Of course, the civilized West should have veto power over howling 3rd
: world savages.  The civilized West is more powerful, and the civilized
: West is more powerful because it stumbled onto a much better way to
: organize society.  If the civilized West did not have veto power,

In what way? Was it because it was better at generating luxury goods or
weapons?
	The muslim worlds were much richer in gold, luxury goods such as
spices then the west that overan them. The only advantage europe had were
better weapons as a result of consistent wars between them.
	The relative peace among muslim nations, probably as a result of
the some circumstances which I'm not clear at the moment, had created
armies that are weak in high-tech weapons.

: the howling 3rd world savages would try to drag the civilized West
: down to their level.

It is obvious that now the west is of much higher standard than the rest
of the world, but how long will it last. You are making an assumption that
the west will always be prosperous. Look at Japan.
: 
: Actually, the problem is the exact reverse.  After WWI, the victors
: made no effort actually to modify Germany.  After WWII, the allies
: removed the German government, executed many officials, occupied the
: country, reformed the education system, divided country and remade the
: country in the progressive Yankee image.  A similar procedure is
: appropriate for the 3rd world and especially many Muslim countries.

Are you trying to lie about the Marshall plan which is the most expensive
reconstruction program apart from the reconstruction of East Germany.
: 
: Actually, one of the innovations of modern civilized Western cultures
: lies in the realization that business, trade and science actually
: create wealth while Roman/Islamic/Mongol/Greek/Turkic style conquests
: and colonialism are just an inferior sort of zero sum game which

Are you clear as to how Iran/Persia came to adopt muslim culture?
Just because they have muslim names like Ahmad does not mean that they
are Arabs? Who do you thing constiture the muslim armies?
Were they only Arabs?
	In Persia, a lot of them are actually muslim persians.

: redistributes a shrinking pie.  The civilized West has a better way

The Malacca empire, Brunei and Sulu were formerly savages with no 
established "modern" economies before Islam was introduced.
	From nothing, the surrounding regions became powerful nations,
adopting Islam, to be feared even by neighbours such as Thai and Hindu
Majapahit(Indonesia). The islamisation process were peaceful, and 
although not complete, such as Bali, and Northern Philippines.
	The incomplete islamisation also testifies to the tolerance which
Islam has on other religions.
	Unfortunately the muslims were only concerned with consumer goods,
instead of weapons, again because of the lack of conflict between them.

: than the traditional imperialism and colonialism of pre-Modern
: savages.  Of course, if imperialism and colonialism become necessary,
: as it seems to be becoming necessary in the 3rd world today, the
: civilized West can and will do it much more competently and
: efficiently than pre-modern savages ever could or can.

	The british style of imperialism were very effective in exporting
superior "culture" without much bloodshed and cost, unlike American attempt
at colonisation in the Philippines, or even Vietnam and the South American
countries. Do you know the difference? The british use locals, train and
trust them.
	The Islamic way was even better, because there is virtually no
self interest, as it was only the export of "ideas" and knowledge.
	Isn't it better for the western world to follow islamic way of 
exporting superior "ideas" and knowledge without any self-interest. Even
if you are so concerned about self-interest, it is still very effective,
because a rich client is a good client.
	Ever heard of "principle of co-operation defeating confrontation,
in getting the most output"?
	Lee Kuan Yew in proposing the growth triangle between Singapore,
Johor, Batam knew exactly what he was doing.

: 
: But of course there was nothing wrong with the Islamic conquest of
: N.Africa which wiped out most of the traditional culture and replaced
: it with Islamic culture.  Attacking the West for actions of which you

A superior culture had taken over an inferior culture but by consent.

: are proud when Muslim people committed them is the purest hypocrisy.
You are attempting to enforce an inferior part of your culture to Islam,
such as aids, drunkenness, drugs etc, by force. This is not hypocricy in
refecting an inferior culture.
	You have not proven that the Islamic culture was inferior to the former
North African culture, but I've proven the "inferior aspects" of western 
culture, which are being exported by especially you, martillo.
	If you are trying to export the superior western culture such as
scientific knowledge and self-sufficiency in weapons acquistion, I agree with
you. Unfortunately you are not honest because you are an atheist, who have
no moral principle.
	What is it that you want in life? Why do you get pleasure in
condemning Islam especially muslim women? Do you want them to be added to your
object of desire? Free prostitutes! Free nude performers!
	Have you actually got maximum pleasure? Are you satisfied with what
you have? It is our biological nature to get sensitized easily.
	Do you want to demand even more and more weird sensations which will
end up in you killing someone, or you killing yourself.

Are you looking for a purpose in life?

Islam teaches us that the purpose of life is to get "worldly" knowledge.
Humans are superior to angels because humans are capable of knowing "names",
in fact angels bow to Adam.

Pleasures and daily needs(which angels do not need) are fuel
 to get the "knowledge" .

I only give you the islamic jurispudence. For the proofs, remember that
Islam try to be rational, demands more explanation.

--
Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet