HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: falcore@gatecom.UUCP (Carolyn C. Doss L.V.T.)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: YULE
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 23:42:10 EST
Organization: Gateway Communication Inc.

Bright Blessings for the Yule to you and yours 
I hope the Lady and Lord bring good tidings your way 
And may all your magic do as it should
As the Holly King commences along his path may your Journeys be filled with 
many good things and your dreams filled with wonder
May all you need find you and may you keep happy and healthy 
The past is gone in the cauldron flame as new hopes light the Solstice 
candle......let the power cone release good to the world 


Merry Meet as Merry Part as Merry Meet Again!

                     B*B
                   Carolyn 

//////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\\\      Falcore@gatecom.UUCP (Carolyn C. Doss L.V.T. )     ////
////                    I Love My Critters !!                \\\\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\///////////////////////////////////
From: cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Types of Magic
Date: 3 Jan 93 22:29:22 EST
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics

Hello,

ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes...

>In my experience, the energies used in Vitalism and Mentalism are themselves
>different.  What's being discussed here is assuming that they are merely from
>different sources.  Every person has both Mentalist and Vitalism energies. 

I wonder if one can draw parallels to the Nefesh and Ruach in Kaballah.
One's Nefesh "energy" seems like the raw, sanguine, vital force, and one's
Ruach "energy" seems like the more intellectual mental force.

Bran, I know it's been a while since you posted your categories, but I
further wonder if you have a parallel to the Neshamach - i.e. a 'higher'
spiritual energy, in contact with transcendent unity  (proper for mystical
work, I would guess).

I recall that you do not use Kaballah in your classifications or practices,
but these parallels, if valid, may help others understand what you mean.
____________________________________________________________________________
   "Hold your fire -- Keep it burning bright,
    Hold the flame 'til the dream ignites --
    A spirit with a vision is a dream with a mission!"   - N. Peart

                                  Steve Cranmer
                                  cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
From: gaiaf@peg.pegasus.oz.au
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Date: 24 Dec 92 17:50 EST
Subject: Goddess in the Bible
Nf-ID: #N:peg:483700072:000:249
Nf-From: peg.pegasus.oz.au!gaiaf    Dec 24 17:50:00 1992


The following article is a long one, focussing on the loss of the
Palestinian goddess tradition for anyone who is interested.  If you
wish copies of the tables too, send a SAE to P.O. Box 63, Mirrabooka,
WA 6061, Australia

For Gaia and her peoples

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: bast@wam.umd.edu (Jaguar)
Subject: Re: emotional tarot readings?
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:31:41 GMT


Well sorry to hear about this bad situation Dawn.

If I were in your shoes I probably would give the person in question a good
talking to about self fufilling prophesies.
Using example out of myth (like Opedius) to illustrate.

Personally, I wlill give a disclaimer brefore I do a reading.
I tell them the cards are more useful as a meditaive device that lets thenm 
examine thier life, rather than bieng 'fortune tellers'.
(then they go on to bee eeirily accurate... sigh)
I also tell them beforehand not to get upset if a 'bad' card shows up.
Death can mean many thindgsa... 
Each card can have numerous interpitations.
Death can mean death of a person, a lifestyle, an idea, an outlook.
It can also mean re-brith. 
When you break up with a mate, you feel like you have died. But eventually
a new, wiser if sadder person is born.

I also tell them that this reading is only accurate for this moment. You can leave
leave and within a short time span do something that totally changes the outcome.

For example, the reading may have meant that if she did not help her
daughter, this could be the outcome.
If she gets her daughter help, it will be invalid.

The danger with trat cards (oops traot cards) is that people will take them too
seriously. Like all those newagers who think that buying that one crystal
will make them a great, spritual person, on the lever of budda...
Its not the crystal, its whithin them. sm
The same goes for the cards.
Jaguar
please excuse typos
my fingers have run off with the keyboard...
From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Space, the final frontier
Summary: Harsh realities, new questions.
Date: 29 Dec 92 21:35:28 GMT
Organization: Kaos Laboratories


In article <1992Dec29.164215.19718@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan) writes...
> 
>Oh, why not join this happy mutual grilling?

(many good questions removed, see bottom of post)

> 
>				- - Steve
> 
>--
>Don't miss the 49th New England Folk Festival,
>April 23-25, 1993 in Natick, Massachusetts!



	Over the hollidays I had the oportunity to speak with a person who 
is working on space station Freedom for LMSC, subcontracted to 
McDonald-Douglas. I discussed all the various space tech plans here with him 
(brought a lot of print-outs so I wouldn't mis-quote anyone) and then he 
refered me to some folks at McDonal-Douglas. After talking with several 
space engineers and physiscists there, I arranged one last interview with 
someone at Rockwell International who specializes in railgun tech.

	Needless to say, I learned a lot.

	The ideas of mining asteroids, industry in space and railguns 
as a cheap way to get there nearly got me laughed out of every office I 
visited. I'm not going to waste my time going into deatails here, but the 
theories espoused here are full of holes and are basic flights of fancy. 
The one of the engineers from  McD-D said "Tell those fools to go back to 
reading analog". I don't know what this means but he assured me everyone 
who espoused these ideas would.

	In short, I consider anyone with a degree in astro-physics who 
is working in these fields to be pretty damned knowledgeable and I 
will take their word over any of the thoeries posted on the net any day. 
I thought I had better post this so that everyone who has taken this 
seriously would know that the theories in question are suspect at best 
if not plain out impossible fantasies. I won't be posting any more about 
these ideas consequently. It's pretty depressing to learn that none of these 
grand plans are really workable. I feel like I just dug up the pot of shit at 
the end of the rain-bow. 

	The real education here is in human nature and who to believe 
and not believe. I suspected. Now I know.

			     ----

	As for transmitting energy to the earth in the form of 
"harmless" microwaves, I haven't looked into that, but I would suspect 
that if the microwave is weak enough not to harm the environment, it 
would not be able to carry a lot of energy. Does anyone *really* know about 
this? I'm with Steve on this one, let's ask the tough questions and 
see if it works.


					- Ashley
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: lowell@locus.com (Lowell Morrison)
Subject: Re: Nomenclature./Men are Not witches!
Organization: Locus Computing Corp, Los Angeles
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:23:03 GMT

In article <105491@bu.edu> mcelroy@bu.edu (Carl Mackin) writes:
>Dawn Hardin (dhardin@bbn.com) wrote:
>: In article <1992Dec18.212725.23970@athena.cs.uga.edu>, tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda) writes:
>: > 
>: > Okay, let's clear the air on this one.  Since when were men called witches? 
>: 
>: Since they stopped watching "Bewitched."
>: 
>: > The correct terminology for a man who endeavors to engage in magical
>: > practices is "Warlock".  The more gender nuetral term would be
>: > "Necromancer".  If I practiced magic, I surely wouldn't want to be called a
>: > witch. 
>: 
>: If Bran wants to be called a witch, that's his business.  I don't think
>: you'll find very many sources in modern paganism outside of comic books
>: using the word "warlock."  But hey, if that's what you want to be called, 
>: go for broke.
>: 
>: Dawn
>: 
>: Joseph Campbell gave me hope and now I have been saved.
>: "Folk Song" by Bongwater
>
>
>Thank you Dawn.  I agree with you 100%.  One should be called what one wants.
>Be it Wiccian, Witch, Warlock, Sorcerer, Scorceress, Necromancer...
>
>May the Lord and Lady Bless you and keep you safe in this most joyous time.
>
>--Mac
>
>mcelroy@acs.bu.edu
And of course, Warlock may well be the proper term for some of us.  I for 
example was babtized (after one of those Billy Grahm [cracker] crusades),
am a slowly become a practicing pagan and witch.  Warlock fits Uncle Wolf
to a "T", except that I feel that Christianity has Betrayed Me rather than
the reverse.

--Lowell Morrison
--Uncle Wolf


Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: Faggots and witches (again)
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 06:22:57 GMT

In article <1992Dec26.014535.2308@u.washington.edu> 
 rjb@carson.u.washington.edu (LeGrand Cinq-Mars) writes:
>I recommend checking the Oxford English Dictionary.  And not teriary or
>quaternary sources that have less reliability than the average urban legend.

Just to clarify, I am presently as interested in the ultimate sources
of what Robin Morgan quoted regarding faggots, as in the sources of the
word itself.  If this is the equilvalent of an urban legend, it may
still be possible to trace the sources.

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
                      |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Bill Nelson
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 08:04:48 GMT

lib1p@jane.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
: Bill,
: 
: We could go on arguing this point round and round until we bore a hole
: in the bandwidth.  It has become quite appearant to me that we speak from 
: different wavelengths.  I think, that for the sanity of the newsgroup, that
: we simply agree to disagree.
: 
: I have seen arguments like this go on and on between others.  I refuse to
: be a party to such and refuse to inflict it on others.  I hope that you
: don't think I'm copping out.  I just tire of endless arguing over points
: that we'll never come to agreement on.  No matter what one says the other
: will disagree, because the point that we are arguing from is different.
: 
: Can we just shake hands and leave it at that?

Sure. I haven't developed, yet, the habit of arguing with myself. Nor am
I going to force a person to listen/argue - if they don't wish to do so.

Thank you for the input.

Bill

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Power-over/Power-from-within
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 13:28:26 GMT

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
: 
: Get off the bipoar bandwagon, people.  Even I -- the one who hates
: bipolar thinking so much -- neglected to realize what was going on.
: Let's say we stop taking an axe to the universe in a effort to fit the
: pieces into one of two mutually exclusive boxes.  We do it with human
: talents -- this one is "male," this one is "female."  This one is
: "liberal," this one "conservative."  This is "hawk," this is "dove."
: This is "feminist," this is "traditional."  This is "Pagan," this is
: "Christian."  Let's knock it off.
: 
: Yes, I'm back and snottier than ever!

Glad to see it. I have been arguing the same point, although not as
eloquently, for years.

Welcome back.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Documented Evidence
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 08:01:19 GMT

ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:
: 
: George Papp makes some interesting comments about oral tradition and evidence.
: 
: I, personally, am perfectly willing to accept oral tradition from someone who
: doesn't seem to be working straight out of Gardner's BoS.  However, both 
: Fam-Trads I know are incredibly unlike modern Wicca.  (They are also incredibly
: unlike each other, as the two people who I know, and who know each other, will
: agree.)  One is a tradition of some simple folk magic and some talents for 
: Healing.  The other is more a tradition of mysticism than magic, though every
: generation has had its share of magical practitioners.  *Neither* of them are
: religions, and both are unwritten.  I acknowledge that this sort of Fam-Trad
: exists, but I've seen no evidence of Wicca, or an ancestor religion of Wicca,
: existing before Gardner.  If anyone has some, I'd love to hear more about it.

My feelings exactly. Thanks for putting it so plainly.

Bill
From: dan@eye.com (Dan Loewus)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: emotional tarot readings?
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 20:38:29 GMT
Organization: 3D/EYE, Inc.  Ithaca, NY

In article <lk3lnrINNsgm@news.bbn.com> dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:
>seriously and b) as soon as you lay down a card like Death or the 10 of
>Swords, you should say something reassuring.  Can anyone add anything
>else?
>
>Dawn
>
>Joseph Campbell gave me hope and now I have been saved.
>"Folk Song" by Bongwater

Hello Dawn et al

An idea if its to your taste, maybe different tarrot decks might solve this 
problem.  I find the MotherPeace torrot to be very gentle no matter how severe 
the reading and it tends to stay away from harsh realities, such as death.  I
find the deck very friendly in the pictures ( female scenes ).  There are 
bummer cards in the deck ( 5 of swords, the sting ) but they don't come out 
with the harshness that the tradition tarrot does and the truth can be dulled 
down depending on the strength of personality of the person the reading is for.

Anyway, I guess I am suggesting using a more earthy deck for reading
to people who you feel might get upset from a reading which they take as
bad news or fortune.  Although the death card ( a picture of a burial sight
beneath a tree )  may come up the tone of the deck may give a not so harsh 
flavor as say the traditional death card ( death in black armor riding a horse )
and hence the mode is affected differently.  

Hope this helps.




-- 
|. 
-o- "A hallucination is only as real as the eyes that see it."
|.
From: rap@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Roger Powell)
Subject: Re: Nomenclature./Men are Not witches!
Reply-To: rap@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Roger Powell)
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 21:02:28 GMT


Okay, time for a short etymology lesson.

Middle English:
wicca (pron. Witch-ah) - A male witch. (We've been around for a _long_ _time_)
wicce (pron. Witch-eh) - A female witch.
  [Both of the above lose the final vowel and become 'witch' in Modern English]
wiccan (pron. Witch-an) - Witches.

As for warlock, there is actually some controversy over the correct
etymology. Could be from Saxon waer-loge 'oath breaker', or equally
likely from the more innocuous Danish vardlokkar 'Spell singer'.
In either case, it certainly is _not_ more correct than Witch to describe
a male practitioner of Witchcraft.

Sorry, don't have sources at hand; my spelling may be off slightly.

--roger

rap@HQ.Ileaf.COM
From: rjb@carson.u.washington.edu (LeGrand Cinq-Mars)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Documented Evidence
Date: 3 Jan 1993 19:08:26 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

In addition to Albanese, Jon Butler's _Awash in a Sea of Faith:
Christianizing the American People_ lights up these forgotten aspects
of American religion -- aspects forgotten during the temporary
ascendancy of the late 19th century drive to Christianize the US.

An earlier but very interesting work is Hannah Whitall Smith's series
of investigations of (often magical) American religious groups and movements,
edited by her granddaughter Ray Strachey (Rachel Costello Strachey) and
published as _Religious Fanaticism_.  (Smith was, by the way, a Quaker.)
She has a good deal on Thomas Lake Harris and the Oliphants (for those who
have read _The Difference Engine_, yes, that Oliphant, though Gibson and
Sterling toned him down immensely), enough to  show that they were not
unique...

But Harris' ideas had at least one enthusiastic follower in the Golden
Dawn, which brings us back, ultimately, to the British occult scene,
and to Crowley and Gardner.

Sometimes it's hard to believe that *anyone* was "orthodox".

--LeGrand

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake)
Subject: Re: skyclad ritual
Keywords: skyclad
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 08:42:50 GMT

>I have a question. How many of you work skyclad and if so why do you
>work skyclad?

Pragmatism always rules.  I prefer to go "skyclad" (as you put it; I
just say naked) because it saves time if things get...interesting, does
not require the investment or care of ritual clothes, does not entail
the (admittedly slight) risk of catching on fire around a bonfire, and
it's just more comfortable than not.  The temperature always plays a
factor; outdoors in the winter (if you could GET me outdoors in the
winter), I'd wear something - for me, a lot.   It's up to you.

-- 
Love and Laughter,             | NOTE: Private mail must go explicitly
Xeper and Remanifest,          | to drake@seismo.soar.cs.cmu.edu
                       DRAKE   | or it'll bounce back to you...
From: amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Documented Evidence
Date: Sun,  3 Jan 1993 03:25:13 -0500
Organization: InterCon Systems Corporation
Distribution: world
Reply-To: amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker)
NNTP-Posting-Host: chaos.intercon.com
X-Newsreader: InterCon TCP/Connect II 1.1b31

lib1p@elroy.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
> The way it seems to be comming out is that only Gardenarian Wicca is "
> Witchcraft" and only it is a witch religion.  Fam Trads are not because 
> of the fact that they are not Gardenerian, but only folk magic.  
> Therefore you have no documented evidence of Wicca existing before 
> Gardener. 
> 
> Does everyone else see the circle that I do? 

Well, I see what you are pointing at, but I don't think it's a circle :).
I disagree that anyone is asserting that "Fam Trads are not because 
of the fact that they are not Gardenerian, but only folk magic."  Rather,
people are observing that "fam trads are cast in magical terms, while
Gardnerian witchcraft is cast in religious terms".

Now, there may well be fam trads which are explicitly religious in structure, 
but I've never heard even a rumor of this that wasn't traceable straight to 
Gardner and Valiente.  The closest things I can think of to witchcraft as 
religion would be Voudoun or Santeria.

However, I'd love to hear about anything to the contrary.  You say you know 
people who have family traditions outside the main modern lines.  What kind 
of traditions?  I don't even care who they are, I'm just curious about what 
convinces you.  What is this non-Gardnerian witchcraft like?




Amanda Walker
InterCon Systems Corporation


From: Sirbyte'@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Sirbyte')
Sender: Jpunix@urchin.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: PAGAN, was You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 01:14:06 -0500


 AB> In article 
 AB> <25DEC199214323283@elroy.uh.edu> 
 AB> lib1p@elroy.uh.edu (Tammy Stark 
 AB> Blandino) writes:
>
>A "witch" was (as I understand it, 
>please correct if wrong) a member of 
>the
>wiccan.  Members of the wiccan 
>studied wicca.  Wicca means 
>something like
>"ways of the wise ones" or "ways of 
>the old ones".  Therefore the original
>meaning of the word witch is 
>"practitioner of the old ways" or 
>something like
>that.  I really wouldn't call that devil worshipping.
>
>
>Tammy the tired of such bullshit

 AB>  Can you back this with anything 
 AB> verifiable or academic?

 AB> Grendel the tired of the folklore passed off as fact


 AB> ---
 AB>  * Origin: 1:106/88.0 [urchin.fidonet.org] (1:106/88.0)
Well, just curious but can you come up with any thing to the contrary
,acedemic and verifiable.  Now to insinuate insult or impolitness but
why is there always such a haeted arguement to the precice meaning of a
word or of a name of a belief system.  Should'nt just either pool our
resorces and come up with one single working defintion to discuss,  or
keep our own opinions to our selves and educate and share knowledge as
opposed to having a pissing contest every time a new question is asked. 
Now just from my own ideals I don't really care 'whos got the biggest
god on the astral block' i just would like to hear experiances support
and thoughts.  We are all on the same side here.  Lets try an open mind
for a change,  it is us who is supposed to be the open minded ones.  If
it were the Xians we might have avoided things like the inquisition and
Salem.
 
(by the by I heard that wicca ment 'to bend' as in according to your
will)
 
 
-The voice of a true Magickian is an awe ispiring thing to behold-
SirByte'*
From: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Space, the final frontier
Date: 1 Jan 93 21:42:31 GMT
Organization: Software Licensing Technology Group

In a previous article, whose attribution I've lost (I hate using this
news reader), A.Lizard writes:

>If these alleged rocket scientists have NUMBERS that demostrate that scaling
>railguns up to the 1 metric ton range with output velocities in the 5
>mi/second range are impossible, if they can demonstrate that scaling laser
>technology up to the power ranges (10E9 joule) range for laser catapults, or
>they can prove that beamed power in the GWatt range is impossible, I'm
>prepared to listen.

Well, let me see . . .  Grabbing an envelope out of the trash, 5 mi/sec.
works out to 8,046 meters/sec.  Can we be friends here, and round that
off to 8 km/sec.?  At 1 g, you'd need to accelerate for 821 seconds
to reach that velocity (about 13 minutes).  The length of your railgun
would therefore have to be 6,605,602 meters long.  Yes, that's six
MILLION meters - 6,606 kilometers, or about 4,000 miles.  It's
3,000 miles from Boston to San Diego.

Let's be a bit more realistic.  You'd probably want to hit something
like 10 g for cargo.  That means you can hit your target speed in
82 seconds (a minute and a half).  The length of your railgun would
only have to be 658,952 meters, or about 400 miles.

Of course, people probably wouldn't feel too happy about being
accelerated at 10 g, even for so short a time as 82 seconds.  And
would anybody out there feel like computing the drag from the
atmosphere on a capsule with a 9-foot diameter (the diameter of
the Apollo command module)?  How about the drag at sea level,
10,000 feet, and 29,864 feet (the current best guess at the
height of Mt. Everest)?  And just how much heat would you have to
get rid of with that much drag?  (A quaint fact that seems mildly
relevant to the discussion . . . the limit on the speed of the
Concorde is the temperature of the nose of the plane.  At
supersonic speeds, the temperature gauge is what the pilot
monitors, not the airspeed.)

A.Lizard, stop insulting people you don't know (such as everyone
at McDonnell-Douglas).  There are often really good engineering
reasons behind the way things are done.  The laws of physics
weren't established as a personal affront to you, which is the
way you've come off in this discussion.  Howzabout this?  Next
time you want to pop off at someone for not building something
the way you think it ought to be built, take a look in a high-
school physics text and at least come up with a rough idea of
what's involved.

And laugh more.  You really ought to laugh more!

				- - Steve
-- 
Don't miss the 49th New England Folk Festival,
April 23-25, 1993 in Natick, Massachusetts!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan