HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wierda@ltb.ltb.bso.nl (Gerben Wierda)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: NeXT and Atari...
Date: 6 Apr 92 08:07:44 GMT
Organization: BSO/LT, Baarn, The Netherlands


Atari is *the* archetypal vapourware company. Most of the things that are said
at Atari are never done. Sometimes, they do nice things though (like the ST).

NeXT on the other hand has another attitude: most of the things they do are
never said (in advance).
-- 
wierda@ltb.bso.nl (Gerben Wierda) || I speak for myself and not for my employer.
(+31) 2154 84415/(+31) 35 833539  || Support the League for Programming Freedom!
	"If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there."
	Lewis Carroll, "Alice in Wonderland".
Xref: sparky comp.sys.next.misc:13928 talk.politics.misc:17921
From: rosensta@ace.rutgers.edu (Michael "Trott" Rosenstark)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Economy
Date: 12 Apr 92 05:40:51 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.next.misc
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

I think both inheritance and nepotism also must not be present for a
true free market to exist.

mike
-- 
rosensta@ace.rutgers.edu
rosensta@trump.rutgers.edu


   "Caveat habeas diem pluribus ennui, seclorum pro bono publico."

 	-- Pliny the Larger, after being struck on the head, ca. 202 B.C.
From: mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: MIME-capable software
Date: 14 Apr 92 08:58:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: Tomobiki.MS-C.703241938.1103527590.mrc
Organization: University of Washington
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
To: digifix!sanguish@uunet.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0

Scott Anguish -

     The term `Proposed Standard' is a technical term used in the
Internet Engineering Task Force to refer to a document that has
already been discussed, debugged, implemented, and voted upon by a
working group and made available for general comment by the IETF as a
whole.

     After a period of a few months in which all objections have
either been addressed or rejected, it is advanced to a Proposed
Standard.  After a further period, it is advanced to Draft Standard,
and finally to Standard.

     That is, nothing becomes a Proposed Standard until it has already
been accepted by the relevant standards body.  `Standard' in this
sense means `immutable, cast in stone, no more changes allowed ever'
as opposed to `something generally accepted as the right thing to do'
or `something widely implemented and used.'  For example, few people
would consider nntp (Net News Transfer Protocol) to be `non-standard,'
but officially under IETF rules it is an Experimental Protocol.

     Under this definition, NewsGrazer is not a Standard.  It has
never been through any review or discussion.  It has not even been in
existance long enough to become a Proposed Standard under IETF rules.
NewsGrazer is not even an Experimental Protocol, because no formal
document of its format has ever been submitted by NeXT for public
inspection.  Nor has there been any public review.

     The reason for this long procedure is to prevent proprietary
protocols which favor a single vendor from becoming `standards'.
Public review prevents this from happening.  If you think such
`standards' might be a good thing, then you should see some of the
`standards' which were narrowly averted, such as the `standard' for
how you log into a computer that Prime tried to inflict upon the US
back in the 1970's.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: remy@mystix.cs.uoregon.edu (Remy Evard)
Subject: Re: List of poor educational dealers (Not!)
Organization: /home/systems/remy/.organization
Distribution: comp
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 07:28:40 GMT

Oh no, not again...
  
Just for the record, in case you missed the minor and very much
mistaken (at least on my part) flamefest a while back, please move 
U of Oregon off the "Bitched-About List" to the "Much Praised List".
 
On that note, ditching the whole list may be a good idea.  The list
of great places to go for NeXT help is nice to have, but the list
of bad places just isn't that useful.  (So why did I originally
complain?  Just stupid, I guess.. :-) 
 
Even if those places are really as bad as one or two people have said 
(and I'll bet they're not), their staff and inventory will change very 
quickly over time.  (By definition - these are schools...)  Sooner or 
later, someone will come by who gets hooked on the NeXT, and things
will get better.  And given the nature of NeXTs, they will probably
stay better.  The list will just hurt those people who need help the 
most.  Nuke it.
  
 -r'm
 
...........................................................................
Re'my Evard     remy@cs.uoregon.edu      Systems Staff & Research Assistant
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette)
Subject: Re: SEF did it again
Reply-To: nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 16:55:59 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.074920.7384@darkcube.radig.de> vhs@darkcube.radig.de  
(Volker Herminghaus-Shirai) writes:
 
> When will SEF finally appear in the NeXT FAQ?

When will the new newsgroups, where RTF posts *belong*, be
created?

--
Nathan Janette		"I'm a NeXTstep man,
Dept MB&B, Yale Univ	 I'm a NeXTcube guy"
New Haven, CT
nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (NeXT)

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: Mark Crispin <mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: Mac clones
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Organization: University of Washington
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 18:45:41 GMT

For the record, Apple is now officially blessing efforts to clone Macintosh
hardware.  The reason is simple; the lack of (many) Macintosh clones is
hampering Macintosh's further penetration in the commercial market.  Software
is, after all, where the money is at, and Apple stand to make pure profit from
the sale of each clone in software licensing fees.

It is possible to buy complete Mac system software packages.  For example,
KanjiTalk is distributed as a complete system software package and not an
upgrade.

Complacency is the enemy of innovation, and I would advise the NeXT community
not to become complacent.  Mac is a bear to program (although THINK C helps a
lot), but for the non-programmer there is much more you can do with a Mac than
with a NeXT.  For multi-national wordprocessing, the Mac still wins
hands-down.  The vaunted Japanese NeXT OS is still not available outside of
Japan, and is still threatened to be unaffordable even if/when NeXT/Canon get
off their high horse and make it available here.  It also has a serious bug;
it strips you of the ability to do European-language wordprocessing.

The one thing that NeXT does well is that it's a cheap BSD Unix-like box.
NeXT made a very wise decision in abandoning its efforts to compete with PC's
and Mac's and instead go after SUN.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette)
Subject: Re: NeXTStep 486 should cost $250
Reply-To: nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 18:06:29 GMT

In article <3526@rosie.NeXT.COM> Lyle_Scheer@NeXT.com (Lyle Scheer) writes:

> As has been said before in this newsgroup, if you look at
> all the stuff that   NeXT sells to EVERY NeXTStep user, a
> comparible package for ANY other computer   would run well
> over $5,000.  I'm of the impression that the price we've
> set is   extremely cheap for what you get. 

While philosophically true, the above doesn't count for beans
toward the success of NeXTstep 486 if customers refuse to pay
the $995 asking price.

--
Nathan Janette		"I'm a NeXTstep man,
Dept MB&B, Yale Univ	 I'm a NeXTcube guy"
New Haven, CT
nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (NeXT)
From: ddj@zardoz.club.cc.cmu.edu (Doug DeJulio)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Barbershop MIME
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:25:08 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Castle Anthrax

In article <8187@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> stricher@masig3.ocean.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul) writes:
>So, the anwser to my question is: there *isn't* a MIME capable news reader for
>the NeXT?

There are several.  I can read MIME messages on my NeXT, as mail or
news, without a problem.  Get the very latest version of the Andrew
Tool Kit, it handles MIME.  Or, grab metamail (via anonymous FTP,
thumper.bellcore.com:/pub/nsb/mm.tar.Z).  It's a filter that you can
pipe MIME messages through to display them.  Then anyone using a
command line newsreader that can pipe a message through a filter can
read MIME messages.  Maybe it'd make sense to adapt this to a service
so the NewsGrazer folks aren't left behind for too long?

-- 
Doug DeJulio
ddj@zardoz.club.cc.cmu.edu (NeXT mail, AMS/ATK mail, and MIME mail welcome)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: andrew@cubetech.com (Andrew Loewenstern)
Subject: Re: Is the NeXTStation Turbo vertically disadvantaged?
Reply-To: andrew@cubetech.com
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 07:18:24 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.235556.16143@bmw.mayo.edu> brunkhorst@mayo.edu (Geoff  
Brunkhorst) writes:

>  In any event, a NeXT employee recommended the positioning in such a manner
>  (maybe to make the sale, but I doubt he would have voided a warranty for 
>  that.  I have seen no problems, and doubt that I will in the long term.

Putting a slab anything but perfectly horizontal voids your warranty.  NeXT is  
going to start shipping them with levels and plumbobs to ensure that the NeXT  
logo on the front of the slab is angled precisely 28 degrees from the  
horizon...


andrew
;-) ;-) ;-)
-- 
andrew@cubetech.com
Andrew Loewenstern            |  "listen: there's a hell of a good universe
Cube Technologies, Inc.       |   next door; let's go." --- e.e. cummings
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc

> Copied from the San Jose Mercury News, without permission:

> "Fans of Steve Job's innovative Next computer have been puzzled at  
> continued slow sales,...
>
>                                     ...And, for our new line of 8086-based  
> DPS paper terminals,...

Now I wonder what is the basis for this part of the April Fools Joke...
From: thomsen@spf.trw.com (Mark Thomsen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: NeXT sales 1991--> Help
Date: 15 Apr 92 20:05:26 GMT
Organization: TRW Inc., Redondo Beach, CA

Kent L Shephard writes
> But what you are missing is that NeXT sells machines through resellers
> that mark them up.  NeXT sells to VAR snd universities cheap.  Only the
> the regular retail market pays $5000 but only a protion of that goes to
> next.  I believe that they sold 45-50K machines.

DataQuest reports for 1991 (found in April issue of SunWorld):

               NeXT   26,000
               Sun   186,000

I was close. The majority of machines are NeXTstations, and half of those are  
NeXTstation Color ... last I heard from NeXT.

One can infer that because the more complex NeXTdimension and NeXTcube are not  
the hot sellers that the engineering action at NeXT will push for more things  
like stations.

NeXT sells machines through a few channels and sells 'retail'. The University  
channel and pricing is well known, as is the registered developer. The Federal  
System Integrator channel is less well known but is probably the single largest  
channel. Retail prices are higher because of the associated marketing/support  
of NeXT sales and system engineers. The channel prices tend to be 70% of retail  
prices.
From: kgnome@concour.cs.concordia.ca (MATIS stephane)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: NeXT used in Def Leppard video?
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:01:50 GMT
Organization: Concordia University, Montreal, Quebec

> melling@cs.psu.edu (Michael D Mellinger) writes:
> >In article <s0d56INNq20@agate.berkeley.edu> et@ocf.berkeley.edu 
> (Eric Thompson) writes:
> 
> >Looked like an SGI to me.
> 
> Me, too, but all I have to go on is the font and window border
> style.
-- 

	Well, the way I heard it ... is this is a Custom App by a local
Company, that does business with Music+, our French speaking "MTV".
Anyways, as the VJ said [a dumb brunette], that it only took somehting
like 390 hours of "computer time" [assume rendering]. The company must
be working either on SGI or Suns running a custom software.

	They propbably started on Amigas way back when ...


+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 From     : Stephane I. Matis                "It Just Works..." 
 Internet : kgnome@concour.cs.concordia.ca     - Steve Paul Jobs, CEO NeXT
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> David Lemson                                                 (217) 244-1205
> University of Illinois NeXT Campus Consultant  / CCSO NeXT Lab System Admin
> Internet : lemson@uiuc.edu                 UUCP :...!uiucuxc!uiucux1!lemson 
> NeXTMail accepted                                   BITNET : LEMSON@UIUCVMD
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: rallan@helical.com (Robb Aley Allan)
Subject: Re: Steve Speaks Out On Perot For President
Reply-To: rallan@helical.com
Organization: Helical Systems, Ltd.
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 21:50:00 GMT

William Mangione-Smith writes
   In article <1992Apr1.232059.468@helical.com> rallan@helical.com (Robb Aley Allan)  
writes:
   
	This seems an unnecessary below-the-belt attack. Rohit was merely reporting what  
	took place, on a subject of interest to some of us at least, not slobbering over  
	Steve Jobs as authority-on-all-subjects, as you imply.
   	...
   	Further, Jobs should know something about Perot. Probably more than you
	do.
   
    
   Fine, here is reasoning: I've lived in the Midwest all my life.  Steve has
   lived in CA for many years, if not all his life.  I'd bet he knows more about
   the ALW than I do.  I'd also bet that he should know something about his
   favorite pen color.  Probably more than *you*, sir.  Why are you trying to
   stop us from answering these important questions?  Surely, it can't be
   because you want to talk about the *computers*, can it?
   

Seems to me Perot has something to do with computers.
Seems to me Perot has something to do with NeXT.
Seems to me I only asked you to restrain your tongue-lashing of others.
Seems to me it was a waste of time to bother.

--
Robb Aley Allan, The Gulfstream Group
220 Sunrise Avenue, Palm Beach, FL 33480
voice: 407/ 832-4013   email: Robb_Allan@gun.com
Co-founder/director, Gotham Users of NeXT (GUN)
------------------------------------------------
-- 
Robb Aley Allan, The Gulfstream Group
220 Sunrise Avenue, Palm Beach, FL 33480
voice: 407/ 832-4013   email: Robb_Allan@gun.com
Co-founder/director, Gotham Users of NeXT (GUN)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: simong@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Simon Alexander GREGORY)
Subject: bibframe or fmbib with Frame 2.0D
Summary: bibframe or fmbib with Frame 2.0D
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 14:23:18 GMT

Is anybody using bibframe or fmbib with Frame maker for NeXT?

I seem to have fmbib working reasonably well but would like a 
better solution to my bibliography generation.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: gumby@Cygnus.COM (David V. Wallace)
Subject: NeXTstep pricing (was: Files in my home directory, and other ruminations)
Organization: Cygnus Support, Palo Alto, California
Date: 10 Apr 92 12:42:14

   Date: 10 Apr 92 14:36:00 GMT
   From: bwebster@pages.com (Bruce F. Webster)

   On the other hand, I think the $995 vs. $2500 for developer version
   pricing is awfully hard to justify, especially since development
   centers on the Gnu gcc/gdb development tools (which are free).

Ahem, I have to differ.  They may be free of royalty, but NeXT has a
compiler group working on them.  If they were free to look after, I'd
be out of a job!

Also when you buy the developer version you're paying for support too.
That costs something to provide.
From: trott@remus.rutgers.edu (Rich Trott)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: SUPRA 9600 baud
Keywords: connecting these things
Date: 11 Apr 92 23:08:10 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


Do these modems work right out of the box, or do you need to make one
of the funky cables described in the zs man page?

Please respond via posting, as email is on the fritz (or on the
upgrade, more accurately).

thanks,

rich
-- 
Rich Trott
trott@remus.rutgers.edu
From: wisdom@leghorn.cs.umn.edu (Scott Wisdom)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Neuron
Date: 8 Apr 92 02:12:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: news2.1992Apr8.021216.21124
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Minnesota

In article <1992Apr7.170906.10148@utstat.uucp> philip@utstat.uucp (Philip  
McDunnough) writes:
> In article <1992Apr7.073326.17765@cs.ubc.ca> sritchie@cs.ubc.ca (Stuart  
Ritchie) writes:
> One of the Mac's stronger points has been networking. Appletalk is very
> nice and using it remotely is even nicer. If anything it's the NeXT that
> has so far been hard to integrate into mixed networks.
Are you suggesting that NeXTs are harder to integrate into mixed networks than  
Macs? NeXTs come with (STANDARD!) ethernet + TCP/IP + NFS + RPC + etc + etc. It  
all works very well (even with NetInfo). Macs come with what? A serial port and  
appletalk? How is that going to get a Mac connected to a network of suns and  
HPs or any other popular workstation? Many Macs can't even be expanded to add  
ethernet. I think that NeXT wins over Mac in the networkability arena hands  
down (especialy with 3.0 - system 7 networking will be nothing compared to 3.0  
networking).

Scott Wisdom
wisdom@geom.umn.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: jiro@shaman.com (Jiro Nakamura)
Subject: Re: Diagram! Engage! Enough!
Organization: Shaman Consulting
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 05:12:07 GMT

In article <SCOTT.92Apr4005832@nic.gac.edu>  writes:> 
> jiro@shaman.com (Jiro Nakamura) once complained bitterly about
> this topic, back when he was doing product reviews and posting them
> to the net (now he does them and _sells_ them, the lucky bum!).  He
> said it made the person talking about the program always sound
> excited.  Basically, he decided to state the name as "Hurl!" once,
> and then just say "Hurl" from then on.  Or something like that.

hey!  :-)
	I still do them, it's just that they are further between
now. Right now I am majorly thrashing my Wetware 2000 Neurochip. I'm  
thinking of upgrading my main banks and purging some material (i.e.,  
forgetting about all the work I have to do) to make some more space for my  
swapfile. Adding a co-processor or two (hiring out some of my work to  
other people) is also an option. Anyone want to send me their resume? :-)
	In general, I will be using my USENET reviews to test out my  
thoughts, sought of a rough draft. My NeXTwatch reviews are in more depth,  
are better organized, and are better from a reader's persective. I also do  
cross-reviews and comparison reviews for NeXTwatch, which I don't do for  
USENET.
	

	- Jiro
-- 
Jiro Nakamura				jiro@shaman.com (NeXTmail)
NeXTwatch / Technical Editor		76711,542 (CIS)
The Shaman Group			+1 607 277-1440 (Voice/Fax)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: grw@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (George Wu)
Subject: Building Movie 2.0
Originator: grw@oahu.cs.ucla.edu
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 06:25:31 GMT


  I just got the source for Movie 2.0 and I am having problems in
compiling it.  The compiler keeps on complaining about multiple type
declarations in List.h and View.h.  It seems like the #import
statements are not working correctly but it is unlikely that is the
case.  So, can some tell me if I am doing something wrong. All I have
done is typing 'make' in the source directory.

  Thanks,
  George Wu
From: jimu@orthanc.cs.su.oz.au (James Uther)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: DSP: It's about time for the 96002
Keywords: dsp 56001 96002
Date: 18 Apr 92 04:49:57 GMT
Reply-To: jimu@orthanc.cs.su.oz.au (James Uther)

The 96002 costs an order of magnitude more than the 56001. (as of the end of
last year, anyway). Could NeXT do it?
	james
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: Neuron
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Distribution: World,local
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 23:22:56 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.135421.2898@arizona.edu> rempe@iridium.tucson.az.us writes:
[ ]
>> >
>> >What about SLIP?
>> 
>> Hmm...you need to have a dedicated line for the most part. Appletalk will
>> work remotely in a portable way. However, your point is well taken.
>> 
[ ]
>
>Why do you say that you need a dedicated line?  It is nice to have a dedicated  
>line for SLIP but not necessary at all.  I don't have a dedicated line for my  
>2400bps SLIP link, I bring it up when I need to send mail or read news.

Dedicated was perhaps the wrong word. Where I work in order to get a uucp
connection I need to dedicate a phone line at home to my NeXT. If I also
wanted a SLIP connection to our Unix network I would also have to have a
phone line dedicated to that at work. That means 2 phones lines, 2 modems,
etc...The costs are adding up. Moreover I doubt that 2400 baud is fast
enough to work with. For example, try running X over your SLIP connection.
With remote Appletalk I can dial into any number of places and simply drag
an icon to a printer,etc...I think Apple is way ahead in this area. Just
my 2 cents. The NeXT is concentrating on bringing more mips,etc...at the
same price when they should be concentrating on their unique environment,
lowering the entry level price,etc...This mission critical stuff, targeting
Sun( which is on the way down),etc...will do them great harm. The real
competition comes from micros.

Why can I get a voice answering machine, fax, modem, software,...on a card
for $400 which does not require a dedicated line( i.e. it can distinguish
between data and voice) for a $1000 colour PC when I had to pay $1300 for
a piece of junk from Neuron?

Anyway, I'm becoming convinced that NeXT is on the wrong path and this could
have very unpleasant consequences for those of us who love the computer.

Philip McDunnough
philip@utstat.toronto.edu [Next mail ok]
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: List of poor educational dealers
Date: 8 Apr 92 03:15:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: macc.1992Apr8.031510.10157
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <htaH!4mk6@cs.psu.edu> melling@cs.psu.edu
(Michael D Mellinger) writes:

>In article <1992Apr7.230019.27915@macc.wisc.edu>
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>   You show me, dog-breath, where *anyone* from the University
>   of Wisconsin (the which state's name you can't even spell)
>   posted even a mildly negative comment about the NeXT sales
>   program at this university. 

>Think you might be overreacting?

Well, naturally I am.  I thought my earlier response was a
veritable *model* of civility, m'self.  But it apparently
takes a little drama to get this laddie's attention.

Besides, it isn't every day a dog-breath comes along and you
can call it by the right name, and that was fun.

Two apologies coming up if what's-his-name can produce.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888