HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles.crosswords
Subject: Clever crosswords (not cryptics)
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:10:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: ncar.1992Aug19.151022.21183
Organization: NCAR/UCAR

Well, let's see if any "American" crossword fans are still reading this,
despite the apparently exclusive focus on cryptics of most posts.  I
got around to doing the NYT crossword ("Tic Tac Toe") last night;  it had 
the extra twist of having some squares split in two by a diagonal line.  
Soon I figured out that those squares had both "X" and "O" in them,
one for the across word and the other letter for the down.  (Example:
an across word might be taXi, with the X in the split square, and the 
down word might be cOmb, with the O in the split squard.)

This brought to mind other clever crossword devices.  One of my favorites,
from a GAMES magazine, had key words which ran towards the edges of the
puzzle, and the trick was that the answers overlapped the edges -- you
had to write the last (or first) letter of the answer outside the puzzle.
(Example:  there would be 5 squares for the answer BARTER, with the 
first square at the left edge of the puzzle.  You'd enter ARTER in the
squares and B outside the edge of the puzzle.)  Then the letters around
the edge of the puzzle spelled a message.

Part of the fun of these puzzles, of course, is figuring out exactly 
what is going on and how to cope with it.  Anyone have any other interesting 
twists on crossword puzzles that they've encountered or created?

-- 
/\        Ilana Stern DoD#009 | Whoever first said, "Things are seldom as they 
  \_][    ilana@ncar.ucar.edu | seem," was wrong.  Things are usually as they
      \_______________________| seem.  Otherwise, they wouldn't seem that way.
From: guy@ulysses.att.com (Guy Jacobson)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles.crosswords
Subject: ACC6 Winner
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:56:52 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

The winner of ACC6 is John Dalbec (dalbec@cs.cornell.edu) with the
clue:


   Unreturned service card (3)


An annotated list of all the clues submitted is posted separately.
I hereby invite John to run ACC7.

-- 
_________________________________________________________________
Guy Jacobson   (908) 582-6558              AT&T Bell Laboratories
        uucp:  {att,ucbvax}!ulysses!guy	   600 Mountain Avenue
    internet:  guy@ulysses.att.com         Murray Hill NJ, 07974
From: rt@ukc.ac.uk (R.W.Thearle)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles.crosswords
Subject: Re: Sixes and Sevens
Summary: AARGH!
Keywords: typo
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:18:38 GMT
Reply-To: rt@ukc.ac.uk (R.W.Thearle)
Organization: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.

In article <9712@harrier.ukc.ac.uk> rt@ukc.ac.uk (R.W.Thearle) writes:

>	Latest attempt at a thematic crossword

>				Roy

>			Sixes and sevens

Complete with typo. Sorry folks. The clue should be:

xx)    Behold musical instrument dropping note - it can be found at the base of
        the ear.
								   ^^^


					Roy
From: fy@lucid.com (Frank Yellin)
Subject: Hebrew months.
Organization: Lucid, Inc., Menlo Park, CA
	<cd#nb=.yoo@netcom.com>
Date: 20 Aug 92 10:16:31


ivan@erich.triumf.ca (Ivan D. Reid) writes:

>How the hell am I supposed to know all the Hebrew months, . . . 
                       

Tishrei
Heshvan
Kislev
Tevet (or Tebet)
Shvat
Adar
Nisan
Iyar
Sivan 
Tammuz
Ab
Elul

The only ones I've ever seen in a crossword puzzle are Adar, Iyar, and
Elul.

Now you know.

-- Frank Yellin
From: parama@hatteras.cs.unc.edu (Vice_Captain_Trips)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles.crosswords
Subject: Horrible words to clue.
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:05:31 GMT
Organization: Scarlet Fires Inc.
Originator: parama@hatteras

Quite simply, simple words will elicit excellent inspired clues. 
The point is not to make the clue setting difficult to the extreme;
this essentially defeats the entire purpose because even the best clues are 
mediocre to say the least and only relatively stand out, and on their
own they are extremely ordinary/dubious. 

Compare the clues for the first few CWC's (you know the words, dont you?)
with the ones for the recent array of words (these too :-) and I think 
you will see what I mean. 

Regretfully,
--P2
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles.crosswords
From: ivan@erich.triumf.ca (Ivan D. Reid)
Subject: Re: Clever crosswords (not cryptics)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:12:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.151022.21183@ncar.ucar.edu>, ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes...
>Well, let's see if any "American" crossword fans are still reading this,
>despite the apparently exclusive focus on cryptics of most posts.  I
>got around to doing the NYT crossword ("Tic Tac Toe") last night;  it had 
>the extra twist of having some squares split in two by a diagonal line.  
>Soon I figured out that those squares had both "X" and "O" in them,
>one for the across word and the other letter for the down.  (Example:
>an across word might be taXi, with the X in the split square, and the 
>down word might be cOmb, with the O in the split squard.)
> 
	Hmm, that sounds like the one whose answers were published in last
Saturday's Herald Tribune (which I won't dignify by calling it a newspaper,
but it's all I can get easily :-( -- if I go shopping early enough Saturday
to get the one copy sold locally).  The puzzle last Saturday was called
Dos-A-Dos and I'm _blowed_ if I can work out the "trick".  I haven't worked
out enough clues to even guess at the trick ones.  How the hell am I supposed
to know all the Hebrew months, baseball pitchers, and other Americana the thing
is always peppered with?  Anyways, if someone could give me a teeny hint, I
might get it finished before next Saturday (I consider the NYT finished when
I've got all the trick answers -- I usually leave a few Hebrew months blank
:-).
> 
>Part of the fun of these puzzles, of course, is figuring out exactly 
>what is going on and how to cope with it.  Anyone have any other interesting 
>twists on crossword puzzles that they've encountered or created?
> 
>-- 
>/\        Ilana Stern DoD#009 | Whoever first said, "Things are seldom as they 
>  \_][    ilana@ncar.ucar.edu | seem," was wrong.  Things are usually as they
>      \_______________________| seem.  Otherwise, they wouldn't seem that way.

Ivan Reid, Paul Scherrer Institute, CH.     			ivan@cvax.psi.ch
GSX600F, RG250WD.	SI=2.66     "You porch. Me rock!"	DoD #484
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles.crosswords
From: asimov@wk223.nas.nasa.gov (Daniel A. Asimov)
Subject: Here is a clue to solve
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 17:48:34 GMT

Here is a cryptic clue I composed that you may enjoy solving:

	11 + 0 + 100 + 1 + 1 + number: excellent number (9)

Please send solution to me by e-mail.  I will post the solution 
on Friday, August 21, along with solvers' names. 

--Daz
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles.crosswords
From: aardvark@locus.com (Warren Usui)
Subject: Re: Clever crosswords (not cryptics)
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:58:10 GMT

In article <cd#nb=.yoo@netcom.com: yoo@netcom.com (Young-Kyu Yoo) writes:
:
:ivan@erich.triumf.ca (Ivan D. Reid) writes:
:>How the hell am I supposed to know all the Hebrew months, baseball pitchers,
:>and other Americana the thing is always peppered with?
:
:Thankfully, most American crossword constructors know only two 
:baseball players:  (Mel) Ott and (Hank) Aaron.  A few constructors
:are also devoted fans of (Ron) Cey and (Tony) Oliva.  
:
: 
:American cryptic puzzlemakers, on the other hand, don't seem to favor
:any particular ballplayers, although they all are fans apparently of the    
:Astros.  
:

The reason why words like OTT show up frequently in American Crossword Puzzles
is due to the fact that these words are small and have frequently used
letters.  When a crossword grid is being filled in by a constructor,  one
is likely to run into places where the grid looks like OT_.  This accounts for
the abundant occurance of words like OTT, STEN, ERIE, ESNE and compass
directions.

You are more likely to randomly come up with the string OTT in a crossword
puzzle than you are to randomly come up with the string YAZESTREMSKI
(another baseball player).

-- 
Warren Usui
aardvark@locus.com
uunet!lcc!aardvark
From: jholden@netcom.com (Jeremy Holden)
Subject: Where do you find cryptics?
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 01:41:17 GMT
Organization: Windward Group - Software Consultants
Distribution: usa

I haven't been reading this newsgroup long, but I've not seen any
discussion of where people actually find cryptics in the USA.

I've done the one in the Atlantic for years, and recently discovered
Harper's after a mention in this newsgroup.

I recently got a subscription to "Tough Cryptics" which is a very
slim publication from the American Crossword Foundation, who are
located at PO Box 69, Massapequa Park, NY 11762.  This is $30 a
year for 6 issues.  Each issue typically contains 4 black and white
type cryptics and three very good variety cryptics.

Any other ideas, short of taking out a subscription to the Grauniad?

  Jeremy

Newsgroups: rec.puzzles.crosswords
From: yoo@netcom.com (Young-Kyu Yoo)
Subject: Re: Clever crosswords (not cryptics)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 06:58:09 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 


ivan@erich.triumf.ca (Ivan D. Reid) writes:
>How the hell am I supposed to know all the Hebrew months, baseball pitchers,
>and other Americana the thing is always peppered with?

Thankfully, most American crossword constructors know only two 
baseball players:  (Mel) Ott and (Hank) Aaron.  A few constructors
are also devoted fans of (Ron) Cey and (Tony) Oliva.  

 
American cryptic puzzlemakers, on the other hand, don't seem to favor
any particular ballplayers, although they all are fans apparently of the    
Astros.
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles.crosswords
Subject: CWC14
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:12:57 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

Jeremy Holden has asked me to set round 14, so ...

     CLUE WRITING COMPETITION NUMBER 14

Welcome to Clue Writing Competition No. 14 (devised by Ian Gent).  The
rules, and this article, are much the same as used in earlier rounds.

The dates for CWC 14 are:

  Wednesday 19 August 23:59 GMT: Deadline for CWC14 entries
  Thursday 20 August:            I'll post the CWC14 winners
  Thursday 20 August:            I'll post an annotated list of entries.

The rules:

Later on in this posting you'll find two words.  The first word is
chosen to be fairly easy to write a clue for; the second is intended to
be more awkward.

You may submit clues for either or both words.  I will accept only one
clue per person for each word; If you send more than one for a word, I
will accept the first one I receive.  E-mail the clues, along with your
name and e-mail address, explanations of how your clues work, and
whether or not you could run the next contest, to me at the following
address:

    roger@quantime.co.uk

After the deadline, I'll pick my favourite clue for each word.  Thus
there will be two winning clues.  I'll pick my favourite of these two as
the overall winner, inviting its writer to set the next round of this
competition.  I'll post separately a list of runner-up clues, and all
the remaining clues, with as much commentary as I see fit.

IMPORTANT: Please DO NOT post your own clues, or anything else that
might give away the answer words!  Some readers of this group want to
try solving the winning clues; please don't spoil it for them.

The words for CWC14 follow, "rot13" encoded for extra security,
after a ^L and 35 blank lines




































FHYYRA

PUVYQUBBQ

As a guide to my tastes,
my major criterion is that a clue should say what it means;
it's a bonus if it appears to say something else,
and even more so if that other reading is something sensible.  :-)
-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"eclair, n. a cake, long in shape but short in duration, with cream
filling and chocolate or other icing." -- Chambers English Dictionary
From: jvp@doc.ic.ac.uk (Jeremy Pitt)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles.crosswords
Subject: Re: CWC15 announcement
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:40:07 GMT
Organization: Department of Computing, Imperial College, University of London, UK.
NNTP-Posting-Host: swan.doc.ic.ac.uk

This could be a spoiler: the words for cwc15 are _not_ mentioned but a
property or two of them are...








In article <1992Aug21.022059.29377@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> ksampath@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Krishna S Sampath) writes:
>In article <17109@ulysses.att.com> guy@ulysses.att.com (Guy Jacobson) writes:
>....announcement of cwc15 deleted....
>may be i am being nitpicky, being a complete novice to cryptics, but
>are the words of cwc15 really that common?  especially the second one..

I don't know about cryptic crosswords, but neither of them are very common
in everyday usage. Especially the second one. (I had to go to the OED to
get the definition...)

More to the point, though, what direction is CWCxx taking? When I first
entered, the "easier" word was eg `stranger' or `alternate', now it's
`condiment' or `(9) + Shakespearean connection'.

Not surprisingly, the clues don't seem (to me) to be as `good'. Stranger and
Alternate inspired some brilliant clues (who can forget `Every other letter
an `A': bananas!'?) in amongst many other very good ones. Recently its
been only the winners that have really stood out - even the judge of CWC14
thought the quality of entries was rather disappointing* (excepting Guy's
winning clues (notwithstanding `thrilled even' - highly dodgy, IMO)).

Maybe it's just my impression that the clue-ing is less inspired, and maybe
everyone else enjoys setting clues for words with 5 consonants and 1
vowel uttered once by a 17th Century printer with a severe speech impediment 
and overheard by a dyslexic lexicographer. But I remember being gobsmacked 
by the inventiveness, originality and consistency of many of the entries 
in the earlier CWCs (it's what inspired me to have a go) and somewhat 
underwhelmed by recent ones.

Please, this isn't intended to be a `flame' and it isn't my intention to 
upset or antagonise anyone (I bet I have: I'm sorry, I'm sorry): I'd just 
like to see the setter of CWC16 set something a bit more tractable, that's 
all. It makes no odds to me (I'll be entering my usual cr*p clues) but it 
may give the people who are good at this sort of thing more room to manoeuvre.

>krishna

Jeremy

*personal communication (I hope you don't mind, Roger).
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles.crosswords
Subject: CWC14 winners
Date: 20 Aug 92 09:05:36 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

The winning clue for the first word in CWC 14,
and my choice for overall winner, is:

Moody Blues start off with LP's first wild number (6)

by Guy Jacobson <guy@ulysses.att.com>.


The winning clue for the second word is:

"When We Were Very Young" thrilled, even after the introduction
of Christopher Robin (9)

by (oh!) Guy Jacobson <guy@ulysses.att.com>.
(I didn't know whose clues these were when I chose them, honest.)

Congratulations on sweeping the board, Guy!
The next round's all yours.

I'll post full clue lists, with notes, later today.
(I'll also be posting the solution and notes to
my crossword, "Spoiler, by Xrn", later today or tomorrow.)
-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"pooter, n. an entomological collecting bottle into which small
arthropods are introduced by suction." -- Chambers English Dictionary
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles.crosswords
From: yoo@netcom.com (Young-Kyu Yoo)
Subject: Re: Where do you find cryptics?
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 05:16:10 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa

>I haven't been reading this newsgroup long, but I've not seen any
>discussion of where people actually find cryptics in the USA.
>
>I've done the one in the Atlantic for years, and recently discovered
>Harper's after a mention in this newsgroup.

The Nation has an excellent puzzle by Frank Lewis each week.  He's
my favorite for non-variety cryptics.  Games magazine normally has
two cryptics an issue.  Unfortunately, even the one they label as tougher
borders on the trivial.

Is Tough Cryptics worth the money?  Are they truly tough?  How 
do they compare to the Atlantic and Harper puzzles?

>Any other ideas, short of taking out a subscription to the Grauniad?

The Grauniad?


Young-Kyu Yoo
NeXT Software Developer


Newsgroups: rec.puzzles.crosswords
From: cd674@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Susan J. Christie)
Subject: Cryptic Crosswords--really?
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 17:37:16 GMT


I'm a new arrival on the net.  Have I actually found a place
where there are people interested in cryptic crosswords?!  Have
*never* met anyone else who does them.  Can we share clues here,
info on where to find the best puzzles, etc.?  Glad to see all
of you!  Happy solving!
-- 
cd674 (Susan Christie)
susanj@jacobs.cs.orst.edu
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles.crosswords
Subject: Re: CWC14 winners
Date: 21 Aug 92 08:18:40 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <1992Aug20.210921.18871@ncar.ucar.edu>,
ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes about the winning clues,
without giving away the answers:
> > "When We Were Very Young" thrilled, even after the introduction
> > of Christopher Robin (9)
> 
> I figured this one out first.  I have to admit that I guessed a likely
> word first, from the length and from a guess at which part of the clue
> was the definition, and then figured out the justification.  It was a
> very clever clue, but I prefer to be able to piece the answer together 
> from first principles, so to speak.

It was also topical, today being Christopher Robin's 72nd birthday
(though I didn't know that until today,
and I suspect Guy didn't either :-).

-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"pooter, n. an entomological collecting bottle into which small
arthropods are introduced by suction." -- Chambers English Dictionary
From: pushp@nic.cerf.net (Pushpendra Mohta)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles.crosswords
Subject: Seeking Unix Crossword generators
Date: 13 Aug 92 02:25:34 GMT
Organization: CERFnet

Can someone point me to crossword generator programs that
will run on Unix boxes ?

I tried archie but was able to locate only mac based
generators, and even they seem to be missing from the
popular archive sites.

Email replies will be appreciated .


Thanks
--pushpendra
pushp@cerf.net
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles.crosswords
Subject: photographer clue
Date: 21 Aug 92 10:03:40 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre
Originator: netnews@uts.mcc.ac.uk


It was


  s
 splitfield
  r
  a
  t
  t

I should have just assumed that and entered, might have won a nice camera


+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  What should always be remembered about England is that from 1950   |
|  to 1957 one of the most popular acts on RADIO was a VENTRILOQUIST  |
|  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England   (44)061-275-6033  |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles.crosswords
Subject: Re: Clever crosswords (not cryptics)
Date: 21 Aug 92 08:26:32 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <77#n5jk.yoo@netcom.com>,
yoo@netcom.com (Young-Kyu Yoo) writes:
> In the first puzzle I ever constructed,
> I had a choice between OTT and ORT, two notorious crossword cliches.
> I chose OTT, cluing it with "Mel of crossword fame."

I was tempted to answer this with "eagle",
being Merl without the R.
And that was before I read the next paragraph:

> My favorite American constructors are Merl Reagle (of the San Francisco
> Examiner) and Mike Shenk (of Games magazine) ...

> After getting addicted to cryptics, I haven't
> felt motivated to work through garden-variety crosswords.

And it gets worse (better?):
after getting addicted to thematic (variety) cryptics,
I have little time for plain cryptics.
-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"eclair, n. a cake, long in shape but short in duration, with cream
filling and chocolate or other icing." -- Chambers English Dictionary
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles.crosswords
From: ksampath@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Krishna S Sampath)
Subject: Re: CWC15 announcement
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 02:20:59 GMT

In article <17109@ulysses.att.com> guy@ulysses.att.com (Guy Jacobson) writes:

....announcement of cwc15 deleted....


may be i am being nitpicky, being a complete novice to cryptics, but
are the words of cwc15 really that common?  especially the second one..

krishna

ps: the clues have not been included for obvious reasons.
-- 
krishna s. sampath....graduate research assoc.....kss@ampere.eng.ohio-state.edu
ohio state u, electroscience lab......(614) 292-7981 (w)....(614) 292-7297  (f)
1320 kinnear rd, columbus, oh 43212...(614) 293-0913 (h)...011-91-4542-4127 (H)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles.crosswords
From: jholden@netcom.com (Jeremy Holden)
Subject: CWC13 Winners
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 19:21:59 GMT
Organization: The Windward Groupp

Here are the winners of Contest CWC13.
For the first word, and the overall winner:

  Reorganisation of Net follows abuse of trust and silly season (9)

Submitted by Roger Phillips  roger@quantime.co.uk

For the second word:

  Teachers aren't perfect about a passing grade. (7)

Submitted by Matt Hudelson ghod@milton.u.washington.edu


The standard of the clues for this contest was, I thought,
uniformly good.  I found it difficult to select a single
winner, and I'm sure another judge may have chosen quite
differently.

Someone pointed out that the second word was not particularly
intractible to clue.  Mea culpa, perhaps the next setter will
provide something more gruesome.

Roger Phillips has agreed to run CWC14, so I look forward 
to that.  I will post lists of all clues with explanations
later in the day.

Thanks to everybody for their participation, 

   Regards

       Jeremy

----------------------------------------------------------------
Jeremy Holden                              jholden@netcom.com
The Windward Group                         (408) 358-1755
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles.crosswords