From: johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall)
Subject: Re: Teaching History (Re: I'm Still Waiting)
Date: 13 Dec 92 23:50:49 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: usa

In article agoyo1@athena.mit.edu (Acee Agoyo) writes:
| Singling out whites as perpetrators of institutionalized slavery _IN AMERICA_
| is not unfair, it is the truth.  

Ok.  I guess any blacks who held slaves wouldn't have been there if
the whites hadn't institutionalized it, so I'll give it to you.

| What happened with "every civilization" does not serve any purpose 
| to your argument, except as a means for comparing or contrasting 
| different systems of slavery.

No, it does serve a point.  The fact that some people in America
owned slaves was not historically unusual, so pining slavery
on all whites isn't appropriate.  Even pining it on white americans
isn't appropriate since most whites probably trace a large portion
of their heritage to people immigrating after 1865.

| What cured the scourge of physical slavery was an amendment.  If the adoption
| of the concept of individual rights was the impetus, then slavery would have
| never began.  

What cured slavery here, mostly, was a devastating Civil War.  Had
the concept of individual rights not been the impetus, there wouldn't
have been a war due to nothing to fight over.  Also, slavery
of blacks in america predates the bill of rights by over 100 years.
Some things just take a while to get started.

What is trully unique about slavery in america was its abolishment.

| "You need to defend. . .western culture."  This statement implies Western
| culture's superiority over any other.  It also assumes that the concept of
| individual rights was "invented" by Western culture, which is wrong.

I'll defend the first and note that it popularlized the second, if
nothing else.

| !> Western culture is not "white", plenty of
| |> non-whites have adopted that philosophical system and it is not closed
| |> with regard to race, as are many other cultures.
| This statement assumes that Western culture and philosophy is the basis of all
| other philosophy.  

No, it says it has been adopted by many non-whites.  That is not
the same as claiming western philosophy == philosophy.

| It also assumes that Western culture and philosophy is non-racist.  

No, you are alleging it is.  His statement (that many non-whites
have adopted that philisophical system) seems at odds with your
allegation.

| Why should one study European history so early?  

Perhaps because the legal/moral/social system they have to live in
and function came primarily from those roots.

| So I guess the reason we have nuclear arms, poverty, etc in America is
| because European history explains the way the world is?  Why hasn't
| European history explained how to solve these problems, if it explains
| so much about the world?

America having nuclear arms isn't a 'problem' and is a fine
idea to me.

Poverty compared with the rest of the world?  Particularly the
non-western world?  Poverty compared to historical levels?
European/American history has shown how to solve poverty.
Some listen (Japan, Taiwan) Some don't (Somalia).

| American society teaches us that America is a great melting pot, yet we
| only learn about European history.  How much more hypocritical can one get?

Honest about the character of the melting pot.  All history isn't
equally relevent to living in America.

-- 
-------------------------
My comments are my own.  They are independent and unrelated to the
views of my company , relatives or elected representatives.

Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5321 soc.culture.african.american:12906 misc.education:5284