HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wtkwest@duncan.cs.utk.edu (tsew mailliw)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Oracle Most Wise - Please Tell Us......
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:35:40 GMT
Organization: Funny - I don't remember even buying an Organ!
Distribution: world
Reply-To: /dev/null
NNTP-Posting-Host: duncan.cs.utk.edu
Keywords: rec.music.synth, oracle


	Almighty, All-knowing, All-powerful USENET Oracle,
whose musical skills superceed those of all mortal man,
whose infinite wisdom allow him to create voicings, rich
in texture an infinitely deep in complexity, please
ponder the following question:
	What will become of my beloved newgroup
rec.music.synth after it has surgery to 'improve' its
already sleek and ergonomic design? Will the improved
name be a front for future competetion, or will the name
change just make it easier to lump all musicians in one
group of misguided supplicants.
	Why were the unknowing masses not given warning?
Why did not someone suggest:
	rec.music.synth.computers
	rec.music.synth.software
	rec.music.synth.binaries.patches
	rec.music.synth.musicians
	rec.music.synth.NAMM
	rec.music.synth.forsale

(or rec.music.makers.synth.*),
	so that we, your humble servants, don't have to sort
through 200+ messages per day.....?

	Please ponder this most humble of requests.
---------
mmasog (your most humble servant)

PS. I am for changing the group's name, but not necessarily
for the implication that I must be a music 'maker', to enjoy
synthesizers and their musicality.
From: plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joel Plutchak)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: About the elitism in news.groups
Date: 13 Nov 1992 14:50:28 GMT
Organization: Brown University Planetary Geology
NNTP-Posting-Host: pilsner.geo.brown.edu

In article <1992Nov12.163353.10439@metrosoft.com> gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen) writes:
>So then you ARE superior to someone that hasn't "read... for long enough  
>to figure out what is going on". You would have seen the post. The people  
>that you are superior to at this point, wouldn't have seen it as easily.

   Uh, Gordon....?  Pick your favorite democracy.  Got one in mind?
OK, now, at what point does any given individual get the right to
vote?  In *my* favorite democracy, that right is bestowed when it
can reasonably be assumed that a person has enough knowledge of and
experience in the society to make an informed decision.  Depending
upon individual circumstances, this can be a certain relatively large
number of years, or it can happen after taking certain classes and/or
oaths.
   Of course, USENET is not what I would call a democracy, but
since you're trying to argue some sort of elitist conspiracy, I
thought I'd help you out by providing some examples of how voting
can *always* be considered elitist in some ways.  USENET makes it
easier to allow your opinions to be heard than any other system I'm
familiar with.  Literally, anybody who can read a newsgroup (e.g.
rec.music.synth) has the ability to do so, and the ability to
fail to do so.  The only requirement beyond that is, indeed,
interest.  If you want to participate fully, you can.
--
Joel Plutchak, Research Programmer/Analyst
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: "BAD" music group reorg will not be honored
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
	<1992Nov9.112853.26622@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 22:17:59 GMT

Dave> == Dave Hayes <dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> 

 Dave> Subject: CALL FOR VOTES which involves or renames THIS group.

"Damn!  That's the 95th renaming of news.groups this week!"
--
Christopher K. Davis      | ``Usenet seems to run much like the Kif (or,
<ckd@eff.org>   EFF #14   |   for the TV generation, Klingon) high command.
System Administrator, EFF |   Whoever takes action and can be heard wins.''
+1 617 864 0665  [CKD1]   |   --Peter da Silva <peter@ferranti.com>
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: biediger@lonestar.utsa.edu (David . Biediger)
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.home.automation
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 20:29:36 GMT

In article <BxnGHr.F9p@uunet.uu.net> CNTS12@email.mot.com (Mike Stevens) writes:
>I am inquiry regarding setting up a home automation user group.  I
>periodically see information in consumers.house; however, that group takes
>all issues as it relates to homes.
>
>Topics that relate to home automation:
>
>In home sound systems-nutone or other
>
>X-10 controlled homes
>
>In-home theater
>
>Home security
>
>Home automation in general
>
>Intergration of above systems in new and exsiting homes
>
>CEBus technology
>
>Smart House Technology
>
>Electronic House magazine exists for the current home automation user.
>
>I am interested in the above topics, any others.

 Most definately!  I haven't seen this subject appear anywhere in a
 newsgroup other than an occassional post here every once in a while.
 I've been use X-10 controllers in my home for quite a while now and
 am very satisfied with this simple yet effective solution for home
 automation needs.  A quick glance through a Heath catalog will find
 several pages devoted to these devices as well as home security, etc.
 Are there any publications that cover the subjects you mentioned?


 David
 biediger@lonestar.utsa.edu
From: rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Date: 11 Nov 92 00:28:29 GMT
Organization: GSP Whitewater Slalom Racing Team

In article <1992Nov10.203619.15086@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
>2) As a direct result of the name change, r.m.s lost the ability to be
>distributed through at least one gateway.

I'm following up my own rebuttal of points 1, 2 and 3 with additional
information pertinent to point 2, which is shown above.

Someone has already stepped forward to handle the gatewaying
to the SYNTH-L mailing list, and has provided a pointer to another
person who may also be able to easily handle the job.  It would seem
reasonable, given this, that the link between (whatever).synth
and SYNTH-L can and will easily be maintained.

| From: sloane@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Bob Sloane)
| Newsgroups: rec.music.synth
| Subject: Re: Looking for a new gateway maintainer
| Message-ID: <1992Nov10.164102.44606@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>
| Date: 10 Nov 92 22:41:02 GMT
| References: <1992Nov9.181323@twinpeaks.gsfc.nasa.gov>
| Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services
| 
| Is the mailing list synth-l@auvm.bitnet? If so, I can run a gateway
| here. I already handle the rec.music.early<=>earlym-l@earn gateway as
| well as a couple of others.  Since the list is at auvm, someone should
| also contact Jim McIntosh <jim@american.edu>, since he gateways all the
| bit.listserv groups, I suspect it would be easy for him to handle the
| synth-l<=>rec.music.whatever as well.

---Rsk
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: CFV? What's a CFV??
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 20:52:20 GMT

rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec) writes:
>After over a decade of Usenet, I think it's become clear that there are
>large numbers of people who will not pay attention to important information,
>no matter how much effort is put into trying to get it into their hands.

By who's standards is this stuff "Important"? Are you implying that 
everyone's standards of importance are the same?
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

It has been said that man is a rational animal.  All my life I have
been searching for evidence which could support this.
From: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Requiring good subject lines for RFDs
Date: 12 Nov 92 00:00:55 GMT
Reply-To: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Organization: Metrosoft

In article <BxInDy.5MI@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>  
ksdavis@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Karleenus Schwartz Davis) writes:
> If you're going to talk about Usenet policies and guidelines, 
> please make the distribution "world."  It affects everyone.
> 
> strom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom) writes:
> 
> [most of the very reasonable article deleted for brevity]
> 
> >If the guidelines come up for a vote, I recommend
> >the "clear notification on Subject line" policy.
> 
> I think it should be something much more specific than this, perhaps
> taking the form of a general formula, else whenever someone doesn't
> like the results of a vote they can claim that the Subject line was
> unclear.  It should not be something that is left so widely open to
> subjective interpretation  -- if there's a rule about it, it had
> better be very specific.  
> 
Agreed. The reason we're in this position in the first place is because  
the guidelines aren't specific enough. More on this is a later post.

Please note the use of the term "guidelines" not "rules".
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Van Huizen           vox: 619.488.9411  fax: 619.488.3045
Metrosoft                   gvh@metrosoft.com [NeXTmail welcome]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.games.frp.misc
From: mathers@sibelius.trl.oz.au (Steven Mathers)
Subject: Re: Claymores
Reply-To: s.mathers@trl.oz.au
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 05:32:33 GMT

|> 
|> P.S.-  Why do you think the U.S. Military named their anti-personnel mines
|> after the weapon?   Because, like claymores, claymores slice through enemy
|> units with ease.

Dont over do the invicible Scottish maniacs bit.  Two handed weapons
have their uses in the right place, but I could name any number of
siutations where a unit of Claymore wielding Scotts would be cut to
pieces without so much as a wimper.  I maintain that Scotts are only
useful on their home territory ie: craggy rocky ground.  Anywhere where a
decent spear/pike formation can form ordered lines and have a stand-up
fight, they would roll over the Scotts easilly.  If a skirmish did
happen on rocky ground, and I was in charge, I would hold my close
formation troops back in favourable territory and harrass the Scotts
with light missile troops.  This would tire them, inflict a few
casualties, and tempt them out of ambush territory by trying to chase
down the lighter troops.  Eventually they would either come out into
the open to be skewered, or cut their loses and go home.
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Date: 12 Nov 1992 08:41:11 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Nov12.055816.4462@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
>jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>>mathew@mantis posted two separate ways you have available to fix that. Do your
>>job.
>Make me. 8-)

OK, I'll aend that slightly: either do your job or kwitcherbitchin.

>>None have even come close to convincing me.
>That's because you're too pigheaded. 

Of course, the idea that your arguments are simply too feeble never crossed
your mind...

>Expressed wishes of a small, vocal minority of the net. And no I do not
>like the result (just as much as you like it). What difference does
>that make?

I don't like sci.aquaria, rec.arts.manga, misc.activism.progressive, and
rec.arts.poems.urdu either. I'm stuck with them regardless.

Bill Clinton is President by the wishes of a minority of Americans eligible to
vote. That doesn't make any difference, though: we're still stuck with them.

Just as I'm stuck with both of these, you're stuck with
rec.music.makers.synth. Deal with it. 

>Yes. most people learned early to give their spirit away. I've recently
>unlearned that. I'd advise you in all seriousness to do the same before
>you don't have any more spirit to give away. 

No, it's called "cooperation".If you think that cooperating with others to
achieve a wrkable result is giving your spirit away, then I wonder how you get
anything done at all in your personal or professional life.

>I just bet that if there was real scientific evidence to support that your
>brand of hierarchical naming was actually counter-productive...you'd
>dismiss it as trash. 

Proving that, or even coming up with scientifically sound evidence to support
that, would be incredibly difficult. Nevertheless, if you can, go for it, and
I'll listen: hard data beats informed opinions every time.

>>Right. Go for it. Until you accept the result of a properly conducted, fair,
>>and open process and rename the group, prepare to be shouting into the wind.
>I'm already shouting into some increadibly broken wind as it is. 
>Hopefully some of use can fix this mess.

You can start by accepting the result, just as I accept the results above that
I don't like.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
     We survived Jimmy Carter; we'll (probably) survive Bill Clinton.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: gwangung@carson.u.washington.edu (Roger Tang)
Subject: Re: Dave Hayes will not quit
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 17:52:37 GMT

In article <141398@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot) writes:
>In article <BxL9rH.M2y@unix.amherst.edu>, twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>>Actually, there have been a number of controversies before this one; this
>>is only the latest.
>A person with a modicum of wit would conclude there are some problems.  Of
>course, you might think that this is "the best of all possible worlds."
>The original never learnt any different through tribulations that would try
>a modern-day Bosnian.  Come to think of it, they were having trouble in
>Sarajevo on June 28, 1914 and they still haven't learnt.  I guess that means
>that in all fairness I can't compare you to Serbs and Croates for another
>78 years.

	I invoke the Hitler/Nazi clause.


-- 
Roger Tang, gwangung@u.washington.edu
Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW
	"The definition of balls is for a non-singer to go karaoke singing
with the cast of a musical revue."
Xref: sparky news.groups:21793 talk.bizarre:38119
From: rpwhite@ac13.cs.nps.navy.mil (rpwhite)
Newsgroups: news.groups,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: CFV? What's a CFV??
Date: 13 Nov 92 21:04:28 GMT
Organization: Monterey Bay Yacht Club, Monterey CA

rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec) writes:

>By and large, they were roundly ignored.

Uh oh, I think we have a new catchphrase on our hands.

Although it seems to fit in perfectly.
      In bed. 
      By and large, they were roundly ignored.
      And that's why I had to kill them all.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jwales@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (jimmy donal wales)
Subject: Re: RFD: talk.philosophy.objectivism
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 15:32:55 GMT

In article <Bx9w7v.997@uunet.uu.net> amc@cics.wustl.edu (Adam M. Costello) writes:
>I propose the unmoderated group
>
>talk.philosophy.objectivism
>
>as a more appropriate forum for the discussions of Objectivism currently
>going on in alt.politics.libertarian.  I understand that Objectivism has
>also been discussed in the past in alt.individualism.
>

There exist (at least) three active mailing lists devoted to the
topic.  2 are moderated, including my 'Moderated Discussion of
Objectivist Philosophy'.  For a subscription, just drop me a line
at: jwales@iubvm.ucs.indiana.edu.

Given the level of ad hominem that Rand's ideas tend to attract from
immature supporters/detractors, an unmoderated newsgroup would almost
surely be a hopelessly unproductive endeavor.  Count me as strenuously
opposed to the idea.

--Jimbo
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Music Group Reorg Disagreement (was Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:39:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov:
>chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
>>It all depends on whether you believe that those who didn't
>>read n.a.newgroups should be held responsible for their (in)action.
>
>How can you be held responsible for an (in)action that you didn't get
>to choose to know about?

That's why there's this thing called a "list of newsgroups", and
that's why in that list there's "news.announce.newusers".  And as
Lazlo wrote:

   The net is a *participatory forum*, not a pretty-blinking-light
   show for the entertainment of a silent and unresponsive audience.

So if people choose not to seek out ways to participate, that's
_their_loss_.

>*) If a properly handled revote was done, I will shut up forever about 
>this particular newsgroup issue whatever the result. You have my Word on
>that. 

Fine... but see the "properly handled" clause?  That's the same phrase
with which you are now trying to undo the r.m.m.s rename.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
                 just another elitist Usenet administrator
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Subject: Re: About the elitism in news.groups
Reply-To: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Organization: Metrosoft
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:30:41 GMT

In article <BxKrwG.MoC@cs.psu.edu> fenner@postscript.cs.psu.edu (Bill  
Fenner) writes:
> In article <1992Nov11.081205.5985@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>  
dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
> |>It's disappointing to hear that
> |>people who evidently know more consider themselves superior instead of
> |>consider themselves as a resource for those who could learn from them.
> |
> |That last sentence sums it up pretty well. Comments?
> 
> Well, it's a shame that whoever introduced him to news didn't explain
> about news.announce.newusers, but that's not what this discussion is
> about.
> 
It's exactly what the conversation is about. If there isn't a clear,  
enforcable way that people can be informed about the process and the  
critical things they need to know, you can't assume that the public as a  
whole will be represented by a vote held within the process.

I'm glad to see that the rest of your post dealt with the issue of making  
the process better though.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Van Huizen           vox: 619.488.9411  fax: 619.488.3045
Metrosoft                   gvh@metrosoft.com [NeXTmail welcome]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:56:25 GMT

In article <1_dqq_l@lynx.unm.edu> lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
>> More and more people are sending mail in support...now I know that most
>> of you guys discount this fact as either unprovable nonsense or
>> statistical noise...but it's very real to me. 
>The net is a *participatory forum*, not a pretty-blinking-light show for
>the entertainment of a silent and unresponsive audience.  If the people
>who support your position don't step out into the light and speak their
>piece, their opinions will not be heard.

And of course people who do speak get flamed into oblivion.
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
From: tdunn@ecst.csuchico.edu (Tim Dunn)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.games.frp.campaign
Date: 13 Nov 92 16:37:45 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu

cbnorman@cayley.uwaterloo.ca () writes:
>Joshua Randall writes:
>>Now I will ask you some questions:
>>(1)  Have you actually ever read r.g.f.dnd?
>Yes!
>>(2)  Have you actually ever read the FAQ from that group?
>Yes!
>>(3)  Have you actually ever read the charter for the r.g.f heirarchy?
>Yes!
>Any more *relevent* questions, Josh?

You forgot my list as well.  When do you get to my list?  <impatient
tugging on pants leg from 5 year old.>

-- 
Ogden's Law:
	The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch
	up.
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.synth
From: nash@biologysx.lan.nrc.ca (John Nash)
Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
Organization: National Research Council of Canada
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 00:21:29 GMT

In article <-!=qjs#@lynx.unm.edu> lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
>From: lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble)
>Subject: Re: *BAD* music group reorg will not be honored
>Date: 8 Nov 92 06:32:27 GMT

>arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:

>> The point is that once you accept the argument that good newsgroup names
>> are better than bad newsgroup names, you can no longer ignore objections
>> to a newsgroup name merely on the grounds that newsgroup names can never
>> really hurt anyone. 

>If someone wants to try to convince me that this particular name change is
>going to hurt anyone, I'd like to hear *how* it's going to hurt them.
>That's all.

I agree (btw, I abstained from this particular part of the vote, because 
although I was reading rec.music.synth at the time, I don't care about where 
it sits... I was more interested in the alt.guitars bit).  I am sick of 
hearing howls of protests from people who didn't read the RFDs and CFVs.  I 
picked up on the thread, and I certainly didn't read every message in the 
newsgroup.  I just figured the letters CFV: were important.

ALSO... if there's any sort of re-vote, I won't reabstain, but WILL vote to 
accept the name change!  Face it folks... the vote is over, and I don't like 
re-elections on bogus technicalities.  If you're such poor lobbiers for your 
side, forget it!

cheers, John

John Nash                           | Email: Nash@biologysx.lan.nrc.ca.
Institute for Biological Sciences,  | National Research Council of Canada,
Cell Physiology Group.              | Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.
             *** Disclaimer:  All opinions are mine, not NRC's! ***
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: ayoub@globey.cs.wisc.edu (Nabil Ayoub)
Subject: Re: RFD: soc.culture.egyptian
Keywords: Egypt, cultural, historical, newsgroup
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:46:09 GMT

In article <Bx2AAC.H4B@uunet.uu.net> kinawi@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Husam Kinawi) writes:
>Name of Proposed Newsgroup
>==========================
>	soc.culture.egyptian
>

An excellent idea!

Nabil

          .-------------------------------------------------------------.
         /  Nabil Ayoub                        ____/   __  /    ____/  /
        /  Engine Research Center             /       /   /    /      /
       /  Dept. of Mechanical Engineering    ___/    __  /    /      /
      /  University of Wisconsin-Madison    /       /   |    /      /
     /  Email:ayoub@erctitan.me.wisc.edu  _____/ __/   _|  _____/  /
    '-------------------------------------------------------------'

Xref: sparky news.groups:21208 alt.config:6807
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.config
Subject: Re: Dave Hayes will not quit
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:09:29 GMT
Organization: Homosexual Fascist Lobby, Rampant Paranoia Division

In article <BxIL8z.K0s@unix.amherst.edu> ljnelson@unix.amherst.edu (Laird Nelson) writes:

>Which is why maybe if we ignore him and his claim to a position he'll go
>away.  Followups haven't yet--but should be--directed to
>alt.dave.hayes.champion.of.the.little.man
>alt.dave.hayes.legend.in.his.own.mind

Actually, I'm intrigued by the prospect of alt.fan.dave-hayes.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu / I use antlers in all of my decorating.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /