From: rizos@cs.man.ac.uk (Rizos Sakellariou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: computer terminology in Greek
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:02:47 GMT

Grafei o Yannis Schoinas (schoinas@fox.cs.wisc.edu):

>rizos@cs.man.ac.uk (Rizos Sakellariou) writes:
>>Grafei o Spiros Triantafyllopoulos (st486!strianta@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com):
>>>H episthmh upologistwn exei  pollh megalh ekseliksh kai mellon;
>>>an h (ekastote) kybernhsh mporesei na to katalavei kai na to
>>>aksiopoihsei, twte isws na kataferoume me ta programmata oti den
>>>kataferame me alles biomhxanies/biotexnies.
>>>Pare gia paradeigma tous Indous oi opoioi doulevoun gia psixala mesw 
>>>satelite link US <--> India. Dhladh emeis DEN mporoume na kanoume to idio?
>>An anaferesai stin anaptyksi logismikoy se xwres me xamilo kostos ergasias,
>>tote diafwnw oti emeis xreiazetai na kanoyme kati analogo. Kati tetoio 
>>den prosthetei tipota stin afomoiwsi texnognwsias, kai to mono poy petyxainei 
>>einai h  paroxi ftinoy ergatikoy dynamikoy se xwres me ypsilo kosto ergasias.
>>Nomizw oti ayto poy leipei apo tin Ellada einai mia kentriki stratigiki 
>>me basi tin opoia tha ylopoihthoyn megala erga Pliroforikis. H apousia mias 
>                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>tetoias stratigikis kollaei isws stis adynamies toy dimosioy tomea. Sto 
>>na baloyme ena PC sto farmakeio h' sto video-club tis geitonias pame kala, 
>>isws kalytera apo kathe alli xwra. Ti ginetai omws me tin Pliroforiki stis
>>dimosies ypiresies, epixeiriseis koinis wfeleias, klp. ekei poy pragmatika
>>yparxei anagki;  
>Ti ennoeis 'megala erga plhroforikhs'? Ereynhtika erga (p.x. Ellhniko Mach) 
>h milas gia efarmoges? Apo to paradeigma poy dineis milas gia efarmoges. 
>Den nomizv ua bohuhsei me kanena tropo sthn anaptyjh ellhnikhs orologias
>h estv sthn anaptyjh (ejagvgimhs) ellhnikhs texnognvsias. Apo oso jerv
>opoiadhpote sobaro ereynhtiko ergo anejarthta apo to poy ginetai 
>xrhsimopoiei ta agglika. P.x. kaue MS/PhD thesis sthn Ollandia gia to 
>Amoeba(Distributed OS) grafetai sta agglika.

H arxikh paragrafos anaferotan s'ena thema poy exei na kanei kyriws me thn 
anaptyksh strathgikhs Plhroforikhs sthn Ellada para me th dhmioyrgia 
orologias. Eksetazontas mono to deytero, kalo tha einai na anaferw prwta to 
poy kai giati (kat' emena) xreiazetai ellhnikh orologia kai poy aposkopei h  
dhmioyrgia ths (sthn ennoia orologia perikleiw kai to `window' kai to `desktop 
publishing' alla kai to `lazy functional language' kai to `Spineless Tagless 
Graph Reduction Machine'). Apla loipon, h ellhnikh orologia stoxeyei sto na 
bohthhsei ton kosmo na eksoikeiwthei me thn Plhroforikh kai na thn kanei pio 
prosith ston polith (bl. paradeigma me to plynthrio kai aggliko egxeiridio). 
Epomenws, tithetai to erwthma: Gia poiwn orwn thn apodosh sta Ellhnika milame; 
Profanws gia ekeinoys me toys opoioys tha'rthei s'epafi o aplos xrhsths h' o 
foithths h' o poliths poy epithymei na apokthsei mia genikh enhmerwsh 
sthn Plhroforikh. Arketoi apo toys oroys poy anefere o Spyros anhkoyn s'aythn 
thn kathgoria (editor, font, desktop publishing, queue, pie chart, klp.). 
Kai anefera kai sto prohgoymeno arthro kai epanalambanw to paradeigma twn 
egxeiridiwn odhgiwn: an kapoio apeythynetai se ena sxetika mikro arithmo 
anthrwpwn, einai askopo na metafrastei. An omws apeythynetai s' ena
eyry koino, tote, nai, ayto prepei na ginei.

Ara, o aforismos poy kanw, einai: "Nai sthn Ellhnikh orologia, otan 
anaferomaste se oroys poy apeythynontai se ena eyrytero koino" 
(Dieykrinish: H ellhnikh orologia den einai kati poy epiballetai. Pisteyw 
omws oti oi epaggelmaties ths Plhroforikhs prepei na diamorfwnoyn Ellhnikh 
orologia otan apeythynontai s'eyrytero akroathrio. To an tha ginei telika 
apodekth, den tha eksarththei mono apo aytoys...). 

Eksetazontas to thema perissotero apo thn pleyra toy epaggelmatia/foithth 
(ara perissoterh ekseidikeysh), anapofeykta, yparxoyn oroi oi opoioi isws 
einai dyskolo h' askopo (me thn ennoia oti den einai eyreias xrhshs kai 
apeythynontai se ekseidikeymeno koino) na metafrastoyn. Omws, se arketoys 
tomeis, yparxoyn apodoseis poy proswpika tis krinw apolyta akribeis (p.x 
"normalisation"=kanonikopoihsh, "relational databases"=sxesiakes baseis 
dedomenwn, "entities-relationships model"=montelo ontothtwn-sysxetisewn, 
"time-scheduling"-xronodromologhsh, "register"=kataxwrhths, klp.  --  Den 
tis briskeis epityxhmenes; Tha entharrynes th didaskalia mathhmatwn opws
"Baseis Dedomenwn" h' "Leitoyrgika Systhmata" xrhsimopoiwntas mono 
Agglikoys oroys;).

To problhma einai kathara thema epikoinwnias. Otan yparxei anagkh epikoinwnias
m'ena eyry Ellhniko koino, h Ellhnikh glwssa (ara kai orologia) prosferei
to kalytero ergaleio. Otan omws milame gia ereynhtika themata me ta opoia
asxoleitai sthn Ellada monopshfios arithmos ereynhtwn, tote to Ellhniko
koino periorizetai (ara ginetai askoph [bl. aforismos] h xrhsh Ellhnikwn
orwn), kai synhthws h Agglikh prosferei ena kalytero ergaleio epikoinwnias.



>Ti einai megalo pososto? Pvs fanhke ayto apo ta paradeigmata? Xmm,
>moy fainetai prepei na parv ena paper kai na steilv mia lista me
>thn orologia na doyme.

An eksetaseis ta paradeigmata se sxesh me to koino sto opoio apeythynontai,
tote isws symfwnhseis. Papers ta opoia sthn Ellada den endiaferoyn 
perissoteroys apo 10 anthrwpoys, den mporw na ta balw sthn idia kathgoria
me keimena poy apeythynontai s' ena eyrytero koino.


>>Kaneis den to arneitai an ginetai me metro kai opoy den mporoyn na apodothoyn
>>oi antistoixoi agglikoi oroi. Arketes ksenikes lekseis exoyn afomoiwthei apo 
>>tin Elliniki glwssa kai den yparxei tipota to asximo sto na prostesei 
>>i pliroforiki kai alles. Oxi omws stin alogisti xrisi twn Agglikwn leksewn 
>>ekei poy mporoyn na brethoyn isodynames ellinikes apodoseis (kai apo ta 
>>paradeigmata poy exoyn anaferthei mporoyn na yparksoyn kales apodoseis sth 
>>syntriptiki pleiopsifia twn orwn).

>Nomizv telika oti den exoyme to idio pragma sto myalo mas otan milame gia
>orologia ypologistvn. Esy milas gia to DOS kai egv milav gia orologia se 
>ereynhtiko epipedo. Mporei na metafrastoyn sta ellhnika oloi oi kainoyrgioi 
>oroi poy dhmioyrgoyntai kaue xrono? Yparxei telika periptvsh na xrhsimopoihsv 
>poyuena ellhnika se ereynhtiko epipedo?

Blepe parapanw gia apanthseis kai epekshghseis. Pantws, as mhn ksexname oti 
oi ereynhtes apoteloun th mikroterh se plhthysmo omada ap'osoys erxontai se 
epafh me thn Plhroforikh (eidika sthn Ellada...).


>						Xairetv,
>						Giannis.
Antapodidw,
--rizos
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek