HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.activism,misc.headlines
Subject: Re: Health care will-o-wisps
Date: 8 Sep 92 23:35:18 GMT
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island, CANADA

In article <1992Sep8.110912.3960@desire.wright.edu> demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes:

>	Canada was not the point.  The point is that for people who earn money,
>the health care is there.
>	If you want everyone to have health care, make it easier for them to
>get a job.

Are you saying that if you don't have a job, you aren't entitled to health
care, or are somehow undeserving of it?

>	Health care here in the US needs some reform, but not Canadian style
>health care.

How do you define our health care? A why, specifically, do you believe the
same system won't work elsewhere?

>	When I was in North Conway, NH on vacation, I heard plenty of
>complaints about Canadian health care.

Strange, I live in Canada, and rarely, if ever, hear any complaints about
health care.

>	Too-high taxes, mediocre care.  Assembly-line like conditions.  Waiting
>lists.

Taxes are, by definition perhaps, always too high. Assembly-line conditions?
I haven't observed them _once_ in all the time I've lived here, going back
to 1967. Care has always been readily available, I could always select my
clinic or physician, and I have never had to wait long for anything, like
x-rays, routine treatment, hospitalization, whatever.

The waiting lists are nearly a thing of the past, but they do exist in some
cases (cancer treatment in some areas, some types of heart surgery, etc.). I
would not consider them critical, nor do they have much affect upon general
health care.

One of the problems I had as a young father (early 20's) in the States, with
a family of three (the fourth was born in Canada) was that I could not
afford to provide my children with the level of health care they needed.
That difficulty ceased to exist the moment I crossed the border. I'll take
Canada's system, warts and all, over others.
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Old Frog's Almanac - Public Access UseNet for Central Vancouver Island
     (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) Waffle XENIX 1.64
Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay)
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: A new political platform: your comments please
Date: 8 Sep 92 20:42:00 GMT
Organization: Oracle Corporation
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Sep1.004840.27664@leland.Stanford.EDU> muaddib@leland.Stanford.EDU (Rob Dorfman) writes:
>In article <168541234.PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu> PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu (David Veal) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug31.010359.16604@leland.Stanford.EDU>
>>muaddib@leland.Stanford.EDU (Rob Dorfman) writes:

>>>In article <1992Aug30.000208.21614@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (MichaelFriedman) writes:
>>>>In article <1992Aug29.173057.5640@leland.Stanford.EDU> muaddib@leland.StanfordEDU (Rob Dorfman) writes:
>>>>>	d> Only US citizens and US corportions may invest in any
>>>>>	   dept incurred by the federal government.

>i thought i had explained. the idea is to reduce foreign influence
>on US fiscal policy.

Do you have any evidence that this influence is both significant and bad?

>>>>>	c> Adopt national auto emmisions standards. Goal is to have
>>>>>	   no emissions in 20 years, each year lowing the standard.
>>>>>	   Cars made before adoption of this law are exempt.

>>     You really can't just eliminate car emissions and sit back and
>>feel all warm and fuzzy about what you've accomplished.  You've still
>>got to *charge* those batteries, and we still produce most of our
>>electricity burning coal.  Running all the cars off of electricity will
>>immensely increase the demand on electricity.

>this is obvious. my government will attack the problem one step
>at a time.

Well that's nice, but if you count in the enormous infrastructure
needed to support electric cars their total pollution may be higher
than gasoline powered cars.  Your partial solution may be worse than
the problem.
>>>>>16. eliminate the death penalty in the united states

>>>>Why?

>lets assume that it is a good idea to value human life above all 
>things then one cannot under that assumption have a death penalty.
>(what i mean is that it is contradictory). X

Well, I disagree with your assumption, so no problem.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: stieger@cco.caltech.edu (Ronald David Stieger)
Subject: Re: Anyone done a recent Usenet Poll?
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:52:38 GMT

delisle@eskimo.celestial.com (Ben Delisle) writes:

>cobarruvias@asd2.jsc.nasa.gov writes:
>> Has anyone performed a recent usenet poll on Bush/Quayl and Clinton/Gore?
>	
>	You are forgetting that there are others running for 
>President of The United States Of America.
>We must include at least the top 5 or so of the third parties to
>be fair and accurate. There are better people than Bush or Clinton.
>	Be sure to include Marrou/Lord of the Libertarians!
>But there are people from the populist party ( Bo Gritz )
>New Alliance Party, Workers World, the real Republican party 
>(pre relegious fanatic takeover), Chef Ra! and others.
>	I want to know how the others fare, differnt people bring
>alternative ideas. That can effect many factors including how
>the mainstreamers will act.

And of course, don't leave out Perot!  


-- 
--Ron Stieger                    **** JUST VOTE NO. ****
  stieger@cco.caltech.edu
"Hush my darling, be still my darling, the lion's on the phone."
                                               -They Might Be Giants
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:45561 alt.rush-limbaugh:4891 alt.politics.elections:13181 alt.politics.clinton:5512 alt.politics.bush:5199
From: sims@possum.den.mmc.com (John Sims)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: Bush's Accomplishments
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:07:06 GMT
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics, Denver

jdahl@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Jared Dahl) writes:

>Carter?  WHAT??  What war was going on while Carter was in office?
>How about Nixon?  Does Laos ring a bell?

Yup, Jimmuh "Ah seriously underestimated the Russians" Carter.  He
completely bungled the Iran rescue attempt, but insiting on the makeup
of the team.  He attempted to micro-manage the rescue attempt instead of
giving the military a mission and letting them do the job.  THAT's what
was wrong with Carter's approach and what was right with Reagan and
Bush's approach.


>   3.  If you are going to claim that Bush was responsible for the "victory"
>       in the Persian Gulf, then he is also responsible for the multitudes
>       of Iraqi non-combatants killed and the obscenely high number of 
>       friendly fire deaths that occured in our ranks.  Our military is the
>       most skilled and well-equipped in the world, and the leaders can't 
>       even find a way to keep them from bombing each other?

Face it bud.  War has been accurately described as organized chaos.
Yeah, its dirty, its messy, and its not fun.  And mistakes happen then,
just like they do in all other endeavors.  I'm not justifying the
friendly fire deaths, but those things are pretty much an unavoidable
aspect of the situation.  BTW, why didn't you whine about the number of
non-combatants killed in Kuwait when Iraq started the whole thing?

John
-- 
John Sims    sims@pogo.den.mmc.com
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:45139 alt.rush-limbaugh:4695 alt.politics.elections:12983 alt.politics.clinton:5158 alt.politics.bush:4914
From: StarWatcher@uiuc.edu (StarWatcher)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: SC rally: "We don't want a draft dodger for president!"
Keywords: significant words from a document used as an index to content
Date: 13 Sep 92 15:23:57 GMT
Reply-To: StarWatcher@uiuc.edu
Organization: Actuarial Science Program at UIUC
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:

: Now, can I propose a better system?  Bet your ass.  The key is to hit
: the things that make it cost.
: 
: I.  Too many lawyers.
: II.  Too few doctors.
: III.  Overuse of the system.
: IV.  Irrational use of the system.
: V.  Unhealthy habits

Even though I am personally against the government's interfering with
businesses' rights (as well as normal people's rights), might I mention
a couple of other excessive costs in the system:

  VI.   Excessive profit-making by health care products manufacturers and
	distributors.
  VII.	Excessive profit-making by drug manufacturers.

I personally won't like direct government intervention to reduce costs
in these areas, but I could see the federal government coming up with
some way to put a stiff tax on companies in these fields making too
much money.

I like the plan otherwise.  :)

--
Michael Adams (aka StarWatcher) 		"I'm Dan Quayle, who are you?"
Internet:  StarWatcher@uiuc.edu				-- D.Q. at a Hardee's
Bitnet:    FREE1217@UIUCVMD			"I'm your Secret Service agent"
Anonymous: apb.3995@n7kbt.rain.com			-- the answer he got
UUCP:      ...!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!StarWatcher     			

Marrou/Lord in '92
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast,misc.headlines
From: art@world.std.com (Al Thompson)
Subject: Re: Cat Control!
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
	<1992Sep10.200001.1977@spdc.ti.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 06:47:49 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.200001.1977@spdc.ti.com> achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jeff Achenbach) writes:

   In article <swood.716148783@vela> swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Scott Wood - EVENSONG) writes:
   >art@world.std.com (Al Thompson) writes:
   >` He  went to the backyard for
   >`a look see.  He saw four neighborhood dogs tossing a doll around and
   >`biting it and in general having a hell of time with it.  The doll was a
   >`baby.  It was quite dead.  None of the dogs were the so-callled violent
   >`breeds e.g. pit bulls or rotweilers.
   >
   >I suppose we will consider this a "real" example?  I have two dogs that
   >toy fanatics.  They are also non-violent breeds.  I don't really credit
   >them with a lot of intelligence, but I would be willing to gander that
   >they can tell the difference between a doll and a baby.
   >
   >I don't think that an example with a fake baby doll has anything to do
   >with a dogs reaction to a real human baby.
   >

   I took this story to mean that he at first thought it was a doll, but in 
   reality it was a real human baby. Did I misunderstand? 

No, you are quite correct.  It was a real honest to god dead human baby.

Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:45404 talk.politics.theory:4181
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:08:03 EDT
From: <DGS4@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.theory
Subject: Re: Canadian vs US health care
Distribution: usa
 <BuKyns.G19@apollo.hp.com> <1992Sep14.183911.24209@Princeton.EDU>
 <BuL143.J15@apollo.hp.com>

In article <BuL143.J15@apollo.hp.com>, nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
says:
>>>  Right.  So presumably they won't stay like this for long.   Either they
>>>  will change or go out of business.   Nobody says that private enterprise
>>>  can't be bloated and inefficient.  But market advocate claim, and
>generally
>>>  I agree, that such companies can't stay like that for long (unless they
>>>  are protected by government intervention from feeling the effects of
>>>  the market).

But the problem in the U.S. system isn't that any one insurer or hospital ore
doctor is inefficient.  The problem is that a multi-payer system requires
extensive administrative costs to run.  That can only be changed by reforming
the system.  No single insurer or hospital or physician can unilaterally
change the system.

>  Funny, I think this supports *my* view.  After all, they ARE losing
>  money and market share.  It takes a long time because they're such
>  a big company.   But the fact of it is undeniable.
>
>  Also, I said "unless they are protected by government intervention
>  from feeling the effects of the market".   Have you forgotten the
>  "voluntary" import quotas?  These were agreed to by the Japanese
>  under the threat of trade action by the US government.
>
>
>---peter
Dennis G. Shea, Penn State
<<DISCLAIMER>>
Ain't nobody's bizness but my own. I'll be happy to accept all
the credit for anything I've written.  It's funny, however, how
employers only acknowledge the profitable ideas.
From: mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: Hold on to your wallet!
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:28:20 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NCR Engineering and Manufacturing Atlanta -- Atlanta, GA

In <18ta4cINNau8@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> strat@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Steve Davis) writes:

>mulac@daystrom.lerc.nasa.gov (Richard Mulac) writes:

>>What do you and people making over $200,000 a year have in common?
>>You'll all be paying more in taxes during a Clinton administration!

>Better them than people like me who make less than $40,000. 

>Stratocaster

Definition:
Fair Tax:  One that is paid by somebody else.

"Don't tax me,
don't tax thee,
tax the man behind the tree."

Unknown representative, during another debate on tax increases.
-- 
--Mark
My opinions are mine, all mine.  Unless someone else claims them first.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.theory
From: john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore)
Subject: Re: Political Parties in the U.S. (was Re: Is this a socialist
Reply-To: john@anasazi.com
Organization: Anasazi Inc, Phoenix AZ USA
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 00:42:26 GMT

Keywords: 

In article <1992Sep3.155350.5652@auto-trol.com> katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty) writes:
]katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty) writes:
]:
]: Wrong. The DEA has the power to confiscate property without even charging
]: you with a crime! Our wonderfule (NOT!) conservative supreme court has
]: upheld this. Several of the Reagan/Bush appointees to the supreme court
]: believe there is no right to privacy in the U.S. There are also sobriety
]: checkpoints, which allow local law enforcement to stop and search people
]: without probable cause. In short, while most people in this country have
]: been cheering on the Reagan "Revolution," the Republican administrations
]: of the last 12 years have been happily taking away our rights.
]: 
]
]... And trying to blame it all on the liberals.

And why not? As far as I know, the first common use of civil forfeiture 
was to seize property for the IRS, without trial or a charge. I haven't
heard many liberals complaining about ANY of these violations of our
rights, and the conservatives would be more consistent if we complained
about the use of civil forfeiture in all cases, not just in tax cases.

Civil forfeiture makes a mockery of the fifth amendment:

  "...nor shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without
   due process of law;"

Civil forfeiture means guilty until proven innocent, at YOUR cost!


-- 
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253  (602-951-9326)
john@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
 - - A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged by reality! - -
 - - Support ALL of the bill of rights, INCLUDING the 2nd amendment! - -
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Bri Farenell)
Subject: record album stickering
Organization: Clarkson University
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 22:39:51 GMT

I am no fan of censorship but I am wondering how the stickering of
record albums ("Parental advisory: explicit lyrics") is any different
from the movie industry rating its movies, G, PG, Pg-13 and R (and NC-17)?
Why is one ok but the other elicits fervert opposition?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BRI FARENELL			      	   "America needs leaders, not labels."
CLARKSON '95				    	---Ronald Reagan, 8/8/92
FARENEBT@CRAFT.CAMP.CLARKSON.EDU  	    
A PC-HATING, PRO-LIFE, LIBERAL CARD-CARRYING ACLU MEMBER
=============================================================================
"We are not descended from fearful men...not men who feared to write, to
speak, to associate and to defend causes which were for the moment 
unpopular."		---Edward R Murrow


Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: patrick@is.rice.edu (Patrick L Humphrey)
Subject: Re: speed, police, crime, hell
Summary: I'll vote for #4 for T*d...
Organization: Rice University
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:44:53 GMT

In article <Sep.15.07.21.56.1992.9727@romulus.rutgers.edu> kaldis@romulus.rutgers.edu (Theodore A. Kaldis) writes:
>In article <NEERI.92Sep14174043@iis.ethz.ch> neeri@iis.ethz.ch (Matthias Neeracher) writes:
>
>> Theodore A. Kaldis:
>
>>> Matthias Neeracher:
>>>> Are you joking?  I'm *definitely* afraid of Swiss police, I am
>>>> reasonably honest, and I'm not the only one.
>>>  ^^^^^|^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>       +-- [i.e., dishonest when you think you can get away with it]
>
>> No, honest enough not to [pretend] that I stopped at every red traffic
>> light I met in my life.
>
>Hello?  What did I say?  Some folks are dumb enough to think they have
>a reasonable chance of getting away with knocking over a liquor store,
>others will settle for running an occasional red light or two once in
>a while.  (BTW, rarely does anyone in the U.S. run red lights.)

Rarely?  I guess that means Texas isn't in the USA, after all -- of all the
places I've been in the South and the Plains in my little red Mazda pickup,
the two worst areas by far for ignoring red lights are Dallas and Houston.
On an average one-way trip from home to work, or vice versa -- about 11
miles for me -- it's guaranteed I'll see at least *three* folks running
reds, and sometimes more, depending on the time of day and week...

(well, gee, now that we've agreed Texas is out of the U.S., I guess that
means we can forget about the Republicans running His Majesty G.H.W. Bush --
after all, he *is* a resident of another country by that logic...:-)

-- 
Patrick L. Humphrey  (patrick@is.rice.edu)  Rice Networking & Computing Systems
     +1 713 528-3626 at Rice. 776-1541 at home. 667-6554 at Palace Lanes. 
                  Support term limitations for politicians:
                 two terms -- one in office and one in jail.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.activism,misc.headlines
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Health care will-o-wisps
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: Curious Goods (formerly Louis Vendredi Antiques)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 06:17:42 GMT

mike@uunet!tellab5!odgate (Mike J. Kelly) writes:
><DGS4@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>
>>If his need was urgent, he would have received the care in Canada, too.
>
>I just can't believe that intelligent people would take seriously the 
>propaganda that Canadians are dying because of lack of access to care.
>Canada is not a poor country.  The standard of living is fairly similar
>to the U.S.  It is a democracy.  Do you seriously believe that Canadians
>would put up with a system that wasn't serving their needs?  Why do you
>rarely hear *Canadians* complaining about their system?
>
>Let's have some common sense here.

A significant number of Americans believe that we live in igloos, or
express surprise that Toronto is the city from "Forever Knight" rather
than a fur trading post with singing Mounties in redcoat ... I've seen
Americans with fur coats on numerous flights home during the summer.
Gassing up two years ago at Watertown, New York (near the border at
the Thousand Islands, to Kingston, Ontario) my German fiancee and I
saw a car with a fully loaded ski rack going in the direction we were
headed (she didn't believe any of the stories I told her, and even I
was taken aback at that spectacle).  Complaints about people speaking
French in Montreal are a regular occurence on Rec.travel ... I could
cry.

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare				
> gld@cunixB.cc.columbia.EDU		Oct 26/92: Just say "OUI!"
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			(Let's worry about the economy!)
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:44351 talk.politics.guns:20725 talk.politics.animals:7789
From: julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.animals
Subject: Re: Cat Control!
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:03:16 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA


In article <18l6haINNrkc@agate.berkeley.edu> spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope) writes:
>In article <1992Sep9.055802.27485@nuscc.nus.sg> ipser@solomon.technet.sg (Ed Ipser) writes:
>>
>>
>>  The latest plank in the animal-rights platform: cat control. Animal
>>  lovers want to make it illegal for people to let their kitties out of the
>>  house. It seems that animal-rights activists have discovered that cats
>>  have a nasty tendency to kill birds, rabbits, frogs, and other cute
>>  creatures.
>
<...>
>The only claim of the anti-outdoor-cat types that makes
>any sense to me -- and I have no idea if it's true --
>is that housecats are significantly depleting already
>threatened songbird populations.

Domestic cats are very poor bird hunters.  They can only catch those
birds that are sick, old, or very young.  An occasional cat *may* be
a slightly better hunter but on the whole cats do very little damage
to the healthy bird population (and very old or sick birds would die
shortly anyway).  Birds are the number 1 (natural) killer of birds.  
(It takes wings to catch wings).

Cats' natural prey is small rodents and they are very good at killing
them.  They also do pretty well at fishing and people who keep
outdoor ponds should make sure that they have either (1) very big
fish, or (2) some sort of screens around the pond.

Anyway, I don't see a problem with housecats killing the rodents in
populated areas.  After all, their population is increased anyway simply
by being in areas with humans (free food).  Natural predators
are absent or much reduced in populated areas so cats take up the
balance.  In more rural areas the cats are likely to be prey as
well as predators.

>
>Barring this, I think the theory that it's "cruel" to
>let a cat run around outside is a lot of jack.  What's
>cruel is keeping a cat trapped indoors.

Well, your housecat will have a greatly increased chance of 
premature death if it goes outside.  Cats simply do not cope
well with cars.  

I've known of (and had) cats that are terrified of going outside.

Julie
#include "std_disclaimer.h"
#include "witty_sig.h"
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast,misc.headlines