HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1992 13:47:35 +1000
From:         lulu@COOMBS.ANU.EDU.AU
Subject:      PH: Ramos favours US presence in SEA

RAMOS FAVOURS U.S. PRESENCE IN SOUTHEAST ASIA. 11:22
            GMT [REUTR] R49210121510 MANILA, Oct 12, Reuter - Philippine
President Fidel Ramos said on Monday he favoured the continued presence of
U.S. forces in Southeast Asia as a stabilising factor in the region. "I
think it is to the mutual interest of all parties in the Asia-Pacific
region that there be a credible presence of the United States," Ramos said
in his weekly news conference. Ramos, who will preside over the withdrawal
of the last U.S. forces in the Philippines next month, refused to say
whether he would allow Washington limited access to Philippine facilities
in future. But asked if he wanted American forces to stay in the region,
Ramos said: "Yes, I think so. I think there is no escaping the fact that
the U.S. is a Pacific power. It is part of the Asia-Pacific region." The
United States has made clear it remains committed to forward deployment of
its forces in the area and has negotiated agreements with Singapore and
other Southeast Asian countries to allow American troops to use their bases
in a crisis. The United States is likely to seek an accord allowing its
warships and planes to use Philippine facilities when senior officers from
the two sides meet in Manila in November under the terms of a 1951 Mutual
Defence Treaty. The treaty pledges the United States to come to the defence
of the Philippines if it is attacked by a foreign power. "Access...is not
the paramount issue, but what is important is the continuing existence of
ties between the two countries," Ramos said. The United States is
withdrawing after the Philippine Senate rejected last year a treaty that
would have allowed it to use Subic Bay naval base northwest of Manila for
10 more years. Washington, which security experts say is still important
for regional stability after the end of the Cold War and collapse of the
Soviet Union, will continue to have bases in Japan, South Korea and Guam.
One of the most likely flashpoints is the Spratly Islands, a potentially
oil rich chain of atolls and reefs in the South China Sea claimed in whole
or part by Vietnam, China, Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines.
(c) Reuters Limited REUTER GENERAL NEWS
*******************************************
Lulu Turner
Dept of Political & Social Change
Research School of Pacific Studies
Australian National University
GPO Box 4, Canberra  ACT 2601
AUSTRALIA

tel: (06) 249 0173
fax: (06) 257 1893
e-mail (Internet): lulu@coombs.anu.edu.au
*******************************************
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Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 10:25:45 -0400
From:         djoko@RAINBOW.PHYSICS.UTORONTO.CA

Testing, sorry to waste the bandwidth, but our mailer is acting up !

Djoko
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X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:57:09 EDT
From:         "(Erwin Brisbanuharto)" <ebrisban@CS.MTU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Response on ET
              Oct 9, 92 5:46 am

Dear Mr. Max Becherer,

Again, I thank you for your interest in Indonesia. And thank you for
letting us know about the problem. We've known it before, like I told
you before.

>      And yes, you are avoiding the question.  What right DOES Indonesia have
> to East Timor ?  What right DOES it have to treat the East Timorese the way
> it does ?  None, I would argue.

I can ask the same questions to you about the Indians. And I bet
your answers will be much worse than mine. I don't care who's gonna
win the bet or this debate. What I care are the lifes of East Timorese,
the Indians, and other people. Answering your questions will not make
their lifes any better (I know your answers will not make the lifes of
the Indians better).

I like the comment from a "Jacobson Visiting Associate Professor" sent
to me by e-mail the other day:
>        I cannot change what happened in the past.  Perhaps I can work
> to change the future.

Let's do that. Let's make the lifes of the people better.
But don't tell me how to do that. Just show me how to do that
by solving your own problems. That way we don't need to hurt each other.

Erwin

>        Nothing Evil lasts forever -- the Future belongs to the Free.

Those of you who think you know everything are annoying to those of us who do.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 16:59:32 -0400
From:         Nhan Tran <tran@PEORA.SDC.CCUR.COM>
Subject:      NEWS/VN: Remains of MIA are identified

10/06

REMAINS OF ANOTHER MISSING U.S. SERVICEMAN FROM VIETNAM ARE IDENTIFIED

WASHINGTON (OCT. 6) UPI - The remains of another American serviceman previously
listed as missing in action in the Vietnam War have been identified
the Pentagon said Tuesday.

The name of the dead serviceman was not released, as his family had requested
that it be withheld. The body will be flown from Hickham Air Force Base in
Hawaii to Travis Air Force Base, Calif. Thursday enroute to its place of
burial.

The serviceman's body was one of six which Vietnam turned over to the United
States last November and was the first of that group to be identified.

This latest identification brings to 269 the total number of Americans
previously missing in Vietnam whose bodies have now been identified. It brings
the number for Southeast Asia as a whole to 318.

The total of Americans still missing since the war in Indochina now stands at
2,265. Almost half that number are officially listed as ''killed in action/body
not recovered.''
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Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 12:16:44 -0300
From:         ZAIGI@AC.DAL.CA
Subject:      ANYTHING ON ASEAN IN 1992?

Hi SEASIA-Lers,
How can I retreive anything on asean broadcasted in SEASIA-L, SEANET-L in
1992? If you keep anything on ASEAN in your file and can forward to me, it
will be very nice too. Thanks a lot in advance.
Nick
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 16:48:57 -0400
From:         Nhan Tran <tran@PEORA.SDC.CCUR.COM>
Subject:      CAM: UN staffers in Cambodia sent home in disgrace

10/07

UNITED NATIONS STAFFERS IN CAMBODIA SENT HOME IN DISGRACE

PHNOM PENH (OCT. 7) DPA - The United Nations in Cambodia has sent home 15
soldiers and two policemen for disciplinary reasons over the past year, a U.N.
spokesman said in Phnom Penh Wednesday.

Theft, drunkenness, fighting and going absent without leave were given as
reasons for the action against the peacekeepers. The two policemen were
punished for traffic offences.

None of the U.N. volunteers or international civilian experts serving with the
U.N. Transitional Authority in Cambodia had been sent home for disciplinary
reasons.

The UNTAC force includes more than 15,000 soldiers from 30 nations and some
2,700 police from almost 50 countries.

The U.N. official refused to give the nationalities off those involved but
confirmed that two French infantrymen were sent home for beating up a foreigner
who had offered them drugs.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
From: pires@vxcrna.cern.ch (ALVES)
Subject: On East Timor (questionary)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 04:07:00 GMT


I just sent a message and I maybe I was wrong in doing it.
Before we can talk about this subject, we should set a few bases.
A Chinese who doesn't speak Eskimo and an Eskimo who doesn't speak 
Mandarin can keep talking for the rest of their lives without 
understanding each other (maybe they will, but only after a 
considerable effort). So I propose the interested people to answer 
the following questions to set up the bases for the debate.


	[ Fell free to discuss the words in the questions.
	  I want to be sure we are talking about the same things.]


The fundamental question is:

1.  Do you consider all the peoples in the world have the same right 
	to freely determine their own future?

[If you say NO, you can stop reading this message].

2.  If yes, how do you considerer we can unambigously determine the 
	will of a people with respect to this right?



Please, e-mail directly to me
(pires@vxcern.bitnet or pires@vxcern.cern.ch)


Thank you,

Rui
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 05:46:58 -0500
From:         Max Becherer <becherer@SUNA0.CS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Response on ET

     If Indonesia were still under colonial rule, would you still want us to
"mind our own business" ?  Would you want us to ignore the brutality against
the Indonesian people ?  Would you want us to say, "Oh, that's some foreign
country, it's none of my concern".
     And yes, you are avoiding the question.  What right DOES Indonesia have
to East Timor ?  What right DOES it have to treat the East Timorese the way
it does ?  None, I would argue.


Refer comments, suggestions, flames to

                 Max Becherer    becherer@cs.uiuc.edu

       Nothing Evil lasts forever -- the Future belongs to the Free.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 03:06:25 EDT
From:         "'Krakatoa Project'" <arusydi@SUVM.SYR.EDU>
Subject:      An apology from Malaysian Minister

JAKARTA, 9-29-1992.
INDONESIAN MINISTRY COORDINATOR OF POLITIC AND SECURITY HAS
RECEIVED AN APOLOGY FROM MALAYSIAN MINISTER OF INFORMATION
REGARDING A TYPO ERROR ON THE TEXT OF THE NEWS ABOUT DILI
INCIDENT BROADCASTED BY THE RTM ON 9-23-1992. [KOMPAS 9-29-1992]
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 00:00:06 EDT
From:         mrubyono@SUVM.SYR.EDU
Subject:      Re: FAKE MESSAGE [max becherer]

> Date:         Sun, 11 Oct 1992 17:42:08 EDT
> From: "(Erwin Brisbanuharto)" <ebrisban@CS.MTU.EDU>
> Subject:      Re: FAKE MESSAGE
> X-To:         SEASIA-L%MSU.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU
> To: Multiple recipients of list SEASIA-L <SEASIA-L@MSU.BITNET>
> In-Reply-To:  <9210111326.AA15692@suna7.cs.uiuc.edu>; from "Max Becherer" at
>              Oct 11, 92 8:26 am
>
> I agree with you, Mr. Becherer. Fake e-mail is very unacceptable.
>
>> Personally, I think it is someone, probably an
>> Indonesian, who is angry at Djoko for his support of the East Timorese in
>  ^^^^^^^^^^
>> their struggle for independance.
>
> Mr. Becherer, why do you always jump into conclusion???
> Is it possible that it may be one of you, just trying, again, to discredit
> and create bad image about Indonesian???
> Please, don't create another flame. It's hot enough here.
>
> Erwin

Erwin, doi rada gokil ngkali ye. Sok buanget doi ye. Doi misih suke
nelen roti ame keju apa kagak sih? Kalo ude suke nelen besi boleh
edan deh. Beraninye cuman di RTnye doi. Sial bener jaing tasu nih.

Mr. Max, what make you feel strong and arrogant to conclude that
an Indonesian would do something bad to Djoko. Any proof? You are
not the wise Judge and everyone knows that. Be careful Mister!!!
And everyone knows who launched an early comment on the case. It
told us something too :-). Jangan lempar batu sembunyi tangan kata
pepatah. Ngurusin kampungnye sendiri aje kagak gablek ......

Buat Djoko, loe kagak perlu ikutan deh. Loe nggak sadar tuh dia
orang maunye ngadu-jangkrik (bukan domba lagi). Loe juga apa sih
mau loe? Anak mane sih loe? Loe masih suke makan nasi ye? Kalo
ude suke makan besi boleh sombong dan sumbar loe ye. Gaya loe
nyang sok tuh udeh diawasin ama anak2 Toronto. Ati2 aja loe.
Risiko tanggung sendiri kalo ada ape2. Sekali lagi gue peringatin
loe, jangan mau diadu2 ame kite orang. Sadar ngapeh loe...

Alex dkk.
(ane beneng akaun meten nih, bokis dong).
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 16:56:35 -0400
From:         Nhan Tran <tran@PEORA.SDC.CCUR.COM>
Subject:      NEWS/VN: passes law to improve crime-busting unit

10/07

VIETNAM PASSES LAW TO IMPROVE CRIME-BUSTING UNIT

    HANOI, Oct 7, Reuter - The Vietnamese National Assembly approved on
Wednesday a law to strengthen one of the country's main crime-busting units,
following an increase in lawlessness that has accompanied greater economic
freedom.
    Assembly sources said 335 of the 375 deputies present approved the "law on
the organisation of the People's Court of Investigation" following several days
of debate.
    No text was immediately released. But Vietnamese familiar with earlier
drafts said the law and two other regulations on government structure ratified
since last week were supposed to give substance to an amended constitution that
the deputies approved last April.
    The constitution and new legislation are part of a campaign by the
government and ruling communist party to create a system of rule by law --
replacing a structure dating from the Vietnam War in which the party exercised
unchallenged and often arbitrary power.
    Vietnamese say their general standard of living has improved since the
government launched market-oriented reforms in the mid-1980s, but they complain
of increasing corruption by civil servants and other crimes.
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Subject: (no subject given)
Organization: Central Michigan University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 08:16:14 EDT
From:         Elliott Parker <3ZLUFUR@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>

=======================  Forwarded  Message  ===========================
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:24:42 EST
Reply-To:     "ASPIRE-L: Linkages for Students from Asean Nations"
              <ASPIRE-L@IUBVM.BITNET>
              <ASPIRE-L@IUBVM.BITNET>

 12-OCT-1992 21:21:56.05
To:     aspire-l@IUBVM.UCS.indiana.edu
CC:
Subj:   ASPIRE Newsletter

The new ASPIRE Newsletter is now available.  Schools and ASEAN student
associations should now be receiving them.  Students should check with their
Foreign Student Office to see if the newsletter has arrived.  Your assistance
will be appreciated if ASEAN students will see that the newsletter is distri-
buted to students from the ASEAN region.  The newsletter should not be placed
on a counter for anyone to pick up.

If your school has an ASEAN student association, send us a contact name, a
mailing address and the number of member, and we will send the mailing directly
to your association.  Please help us get the newsletter to ASEAN students.
Thank you for your assistance!
                                      Jack Brewer
                                      Project Director
                                      Midwest Regional Center
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 07:00:05 -0500
From:         Max Becherer <becherer@SUNA0.CS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: FAKE MESSAGE

    The types of gramatical errors in the forged message suggest that English
is not the author's native language.  The most likely candidate would be an
Indonesian, as most of the Indonesians on the Net support their government in
East Timor.  It would therefore stand to reason that one of them could be
bitter enough at Djoko, whom he considers to be a traitor, to smear him with
forged email messages in his name.
   Note that in my first comment on the fake message, I qualified my
suspicions on the identity of the forger.  It could always be an East Timorese
who threw his lot in with the government, or an American who does a good
imitation of someone who is only partially fluent in English (it's not as easy
as you may think!)  All I am saying is that it is likely, but not certain, that
the forger is Indonesian.
    Whoever he is, and whatever his nationality, let's hope that he is caught.
Or at the very least, let's hope that recent talk of finding and punishing the
little slime convinces him to think about the possible consequences of his
actions and to cease and desist.



Refer comments, suggestions, flames to

                 Max Becherer    becherer@cs.uiuc.edu

       Nothing Evil lasts forever -- the Future belongs to the Free.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 16:48:29 -0400
From:         Nhan Tran <tran@PEORA.SDC.CCUR.COM>
Subject:      CAM: Khmer Rouge claim tough police unit still active

10/06

KHMER ROUGE CLAIM TOUGH POLICE UNIT STILL ACTIVE

    By Mark Dodd
    KRATIE, Cambodia, Oct 6, Reuter - Khmer Rouge guerrillas based in this
remote northeastern province say an elite police commando unit said to have
been disbanded is still active against them.
    Captain Tuy Meng, commander of a 50-strong force of Khmer Rouge guerrillas,
told Reuters a reinforced platoon of well-armed police commandos tried to
assassinate him on September 29.
    "It was the A-3, A-3," Meng said repeatedly, referring to the official
designation of the government commando unit known informally as the "Fighting
Police" or Nokabul Proyut.
    During the 13-year civil war, the A-3 were an effective anti-guerrilla
force with a reputation for not taking any Khmer Rouge prisoners.
    The Khmer Rouge raised the issue of the existence of A-3 at peace talks in
the Thai resort of Pattaya last year, which preceded the signing of a peace
agreement in Paris last October. The Khmer Rouge at that time demanded the unit
be dissolved.
    After the signing of the peace agreement the Phnom Penh government,
installed by the Khmer Rouge's Vietnamese enemies in 1979, said the A-3 had
been disbanded.
    Neutral observers have said A-3's members were absorbed into other army and
police units based in the provinces.
    Unlike Phnom Penh army units, the A-3 received orders from the Ministry of
the Interior and not the Ministry of Defence.
    Western military sources told Reuters many A-3 officers were trained in
Vietnam in counter-insurgency operations.
    Meng, a former government soldier who switched sides to the Khmer Rouge,
said 40 police commandos staked out a nearby village to ambush him.
    He spoke during a visit by a U.N. military observer to his camp last week.
Reuters accompanied the observer.
    "I don't want to fight and push them back. Do you have any ideas to solve
this problem. Have you heard about it?" he asked the observer.
    Only the Khmer Rouge of Cambodia's four factions is refusing to implement
provisions of the peace agreement calling for fighters to gather into U.N.
camps ahead of disarmament.
    The Khmer Rouge say the United Nations Transitional Authority in Cambodia
(UNTAC) must first verify that Vietnam has withdrawn all its soldiers from the
country.
    Western diplomats accept Vietnam's claim that it withdrew the last of its
fighters in 1989.
From: nguyen@turing.scs.carleton.ca (H.H. Nguyen)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Subject: Re: Greetings from SEASIA-L (Sept)
Date: 11 Oct 92 17:43:00 GMT
Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada

In article <921011.094159.EDT.3ZLUFUR@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> 3ZLUFUR@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU (Elliott Parker) writes:

	.... deleted stuffs ....

>
>          The list is not moderated, but you must be subscribed
>to the List before listserv will let you post.
>

	.... deleted stuffs ....


	Greetings,

	Please pardon my ignorance, but I have read access to this SEASIA-L
through USENET.  Does the above statement mean that, being a non-subscriber, 
I can read, but cannot post to this list ? 

	The reason I am a non-subscriber is the list is available to
me through USENET, so why should I use the email resource to get the same
information by subscribing ?  Or should I subscribe with the "NO MAIL"
option ? 

	Hopefully this is only a mis-understanding on my part. I.e.,
USENET readers can also post to the SEASIA-L list.

	Regards,
	H.H. Nguyen



 
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 00:39:31 -0700
From:         "(Ferry 'Dr Pepper' Siamena)" <SIAMENA@ENVMSA.EAS.ASU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: FAKE MESSAGE

>I agree with you, Mr. Becherer. Fake e-mail is very unacceptable.

>> Personally, I think it is someone, probably an
>> Indonesian, who is angry at Djoko for his support of the East Timorese in
>>  ^^^^^^^^^^
>> their struggle for independance.

>Mr. Becherer, why do you always jump into conclusion???
>Is it possible that it may be one of you, just trying, again, to discredit
>and create bad image about Indonesian???
>Please, don't create another flame. It's hot enough here.
>
>Erwin


-->   It  seems  to  me that Mr. Becherer has a deep deep resentment toward
						~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     Indonesians.   May I know why ?	Maybe I can help.


			 -->  Ferry
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 20:38:39 -0500
From:         Max Becherer <becherer@SUNA0.CS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: FAKE MESSAGE

     Ferry and others have suggested that I dislike Indonesians.  This is not
true.  I do not like the Indonesian government, nor am I fond of its policies
in East Timor, but I have nothing against Indonesians.  Most Indonesians on
the Net support their government, and I strongly disagree with them, but in a
democracy, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
     As for the comment that the forger was probably Indonesian, in hindsight,
I regret making it.  Some have mistakenly interpreted it as a sign of contempt
for Indonesian people.  That was never my intention.
     Even if the forger is Indonesian (a very real possibility), that shouldn't
reflect badly on Indonesians in general.  Just because one is dishonorable
enough to do this does not mean all are bad.  I could come up with a list of
dishonorable (and downright evil) Americans ten feet long, but that does not
mean that all Americans are like that (thank God!)

     Once again, I have no reason to hate Indonesian people.  I don't blame
them for the behavior of their government.  I meant exactly what I said when
I commented that the forger was probably Indonesian, nothing more.  There was
no "second message" saying that I hate Indonesians, and anyone who saw one
misinterpreted me.  Based on the highly emotional support on the part of many
Indonesians for their government in East Timor, I felt (and still feel) that
there is a good chance the forger is Indonesian.  I never said that I was
certain, and I'm not saying it now, I am just stating what I think is a logical
possibility.  I hope this has cleared the air a little.

                              Max
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