From: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM (Jeff Huntington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Help!  Diastole diesel disaster
Date: 9 Nov 1992 20:48:58 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: nonsuch.ebay.sun.com

In article 27313@oasys.dt.navy.mil, hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners) writes:
> This is an emergency call to the net.  Yesterday I prepared to move
> Diastole out of her slip so that I could bring in a barge to drive a
> couple piles.  Power is a Perkins 4.108.  Checked the water; was low
> so I added about 1 1/2 quarts.  As the water has never been a problem,
> I should have seen the red flag immediately, but it had been a month
> since I turned her over and I was about to put her to bed for the winter
> anyhow, so I just made a mental note to look for the leak in the fresh
> water loop.  Was a bit slow to start (5 secs) but really not unusual for
> the 40 degree temperature not using glow plugs.  Seemed a bit slow to
> warm up though... after about a minute, I took it up to about 1800 rpm,
> but it immediately started to stumble.  Back to idle for another minute,
> then tried to rev it up again... stumbled and died at about 2000.
> Restarted it with no problem but in about 5 secs the oil pressure/
> temperature alarm sounded and I immediately shut it down.
> 
> Checked the water; down slightly.  Checked the oil; ALL THE WAY TO THE
> TOP OF THE STICK!  Instant self recrimination! :-(  Great, Bob.  You
> picked a perfect time not to check the oil before starting... idiot!
> (But... I was only going to move her a hundred feet.)  You're STILL an
> idiot!
> 
> So, in the best of all worlds, it's the head gasket.  But... it must
> have happened a *month* ago!  (Though there was absolutely no indication
> of a problem at that time.)  She's been sitting immersed for a month...
> d*mn!  Naturally, we had visitors in... and the next two weeks are going
> to be a bear here at work-- was planning overtime.  Of all the times....
> 
> I pumped the crankcase dry... looked more like two or three quarts
> of water in the slurry. :-(   Drained the fresh water loop.  Then I
> added a gallon of oil and about 6 quarts of kerosene through the valve
> cover.  Cranked the engine for about four minutes (with generous rest
> periods for the starter).  After setting about 15 minutes, I pumped
> about a quart of this mix out.  There was just a few drops of water,
> most of which I figured was left in the hose from the first pumpout.
> 
> Now, my plea.  What should I do next?  Here are the rules.  I'm not
> too interested in buying a mechanic who be working at an hourly rate
> considerably surpassing my own!  And the boat is at my dock at my
> residence, 5 miles from a suitable yard.  I'm also not going to be able
> to get at this rebuild right away (with the overtime work here).
> 
> Is there a dry-gas type product that can be put in for a short time
> to prevent corrosion until I can get to the job?  My visitor told me
> that the ethylene glycol (antifreeze) is particularly destructive in
> the bearings and rings... that it adheres to the surfaces in preference
> to the oil and thus causes corrosion very quickly... it this true?  Of
> course I can't run the engine to dry it out until the repair is made.
> 
> If the advice is to get a mechanic cracking right away, should I just
> go for the head gasket (if that's the problem) or should the engine be
> torn down all the way, checking mains, reringing, etc.?
> 
> The engine has over 4000 hours on it, but it's been well maintained
> up to now-- good compression, not a trace of smoke or any other
> tale-tale signs of problems.
> 
> I know there are several diesel-savy posters here.  What's the verdict?
> On the engine... not my seamanship. :-)
> 
> Thanks for your time!
> 
> 			      -- Bob
> 
> PS...  I'm a mechanical engineer and have rebuilt my share of automobile
> engines... but this would be my first close_up_and_personal acquaintance
> with a diesel.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Robert J. Hanners         "My comments; only mine."          *DIASTOLE* 676673
> CD, NSWC, Annapolis, MD                              hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil


Bob, you are right is suspecting the head gasket (particularly if you have been
lax in torquing your head).  You are also right in being uncertain that the head
gasket is the problem.

Here is what I would do.  I am not sure if it is the best thing, of if there are
other things, to do.  Other will likely offer advice as well.

Drain the water from the system. Get as much out as possible because you will not be 
wanting to put more in the system as you go along.  I would remove the fresh water
pump (cooling pump).  The reason for this is twofold.  In the first place there is
a chance that the water entered the engine through the water pump seal.  In the 
second place, I wouldn't want to run the water pump with no water in it.  I would
also remove the impeller from the sea water pump.  Again, not a bad idea to check 
it, and don't want to run it dry.

Next, I would drain and replace the engien oil and change the filter.  When replacing
the oil, I would use about 2/3 motor oil and 1/3 automatic transmission fluid - and
slightly overfill the crankcase.  The transmission fluid has a lot of water absorbing
properties to it, and overfilling the crankcase will give you more oil for cooling.

Then, I would start the engine and run it for a while.  Put your hand on the oil
pan or oil filter to monitor how hot the oil is getting.  You want the oil to get
hot enought to vaporize the water, but not let the engine get so hot that you damage
it.  Part of the problem is that the oil wants to float on top of the water, so it
is hard to get the water out until is vaporizes and mixes with the oil.

Let me caution you at this point to also keep a close eye on the exhaust.  Without
the water to cool it, it will be much hotter than normal.  Depending on your 
installation, this could be a problem.  The point is, it is OK to run the engine
for a while without water if you watch it closely.  There are real benefits to be
had by running it now to get it dried out.

Repeat the above process several times until you get all of the water out.  You can
tell this by looking at the color of the oil.  I would
only use the transmission fluid one or two times, but let what you see happening 
determine that.  After I had all of the water out, I would put in a fresh batch of
motor oil and remove the injectors and put about 1/4 cut of motor oil in  the
top of each cylindar.  Put the injectors back in (loosely) and turn the engine over 
by hand a few times.

Having done this, you will have the eingine in a stable condition that can wait
until you have time to work on it.  If you found the water was leaking through 
the water pump seal when you took off the water pump, chances are good that the
head gasket is OK.  If not, the next thing I would do would be to remove the head.
Once you get the head off, you should know a lot more about what you are dealing with.

Nothing I have said to do so far should be beyond that ability of the average person.
If you see that the head gasket was letting water get into the cylinder, and the 
engine ran OK when you were getting the water out, you could probably replace the
head gasket and put it back together.  If you see some wear on the valves, you might
want to take the head to a shop and them do a valve job for you.  It doesn't seem
that you are likely going to need to do anything to the pistons, rings, or bottom
end, even thought it will not likely be perfect after 4000 hours and it's most
recent experience.  A complete rebuild will be very expensive, and I don't think
there is much that is likely to happen (if you do what I suggested so far) to 
make any eventual rebuild more expensive.  So, you might a well put it back together
at this point and see how it works.

Good luck.  I will be interested in what you do, what you find, and how it turns
out.

Jeff Huntington

Newsgroups: rec.boats