From: masimo@netcom.com (Michael Maas)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Into the highways and hedges
Date: 21 Jul 92 07:58:33 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <Jul.10.02.59.38.1992.19449@dumas.rutgers.edu> REXLEX@fnalf.fnal.gov writes:
>In article <Jul.8.03.28.20.1992.24004@dumas.rutgers.edu>
>lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Louie Crew) writes:
>
Rex, As I read your late night thoughts I had some of my own.  

I regret that I am not able to respond to all of your post but truthfully
I find much of it offensive and out of tune with the loving God that I join
Jesus in calling "daddy" that I fear I would have found you standing with
those men who so fatuously condemned the adulteress. 

>....  Christ told the adulterous woman -Go and Sin no more. 
>That, as I see it, means three things. a)  It was recognized as sinful, that is
>contrary to the character of God and was so stated,  b)  she was told to stop
>it, and  c)  because of her change in the internal life, she changed the
>external life....  

Jesus was reacting to a group of men who were judging Mary for her adultery 
based not on the fact that it was a misuse of love but on the fact that it
was against their Law.  Jesus, did not deny the law but rather pointed out 
by his actions the misunderstanding of its application by those who had 
condemned her.  

In his interaction with the men he pointed out that it was wrong to condemn.
That it is better to look at the offender empathetically and forgive and 
correct.  

Moreover, it is important to note the nature of his correction.  For he
did not say to the woman "go and do not commit adultery" but rather "go
and sin no more."  This is because Jesus did not think of sin as specific
acts but rather of acting without love.  His whole ministry witnesses to
love as being the single most important quality of both God and man.  

The adultery was clearly wrong.  We know this because of Jesus words to the
woman.  However, we cannot assert that it was wrong because it was against
the Law, nor because it occurred outside of the bounds of matrimony, or
that it may have been done for financial gain.  We can`t assert those because
the text doesn't tell us why.  What the text does tell us is that Jesus'
reasons were not the same as those as those who had condemned her when he
happened on the scene.  I personally believe that his condemnation of her
was based not on the adultery per se, but on the lack of love it implied
for her self, for her husband, for her lover, for her lover`s spouse and
for the society of which she was a part.  

In his interaction with the woman, he illustrated the forgiveness of God.  
Apparently the utter gratuitousness of his action as compared to those of the 
other men was a significant turning point in the life of Mary.  

From Jesus' actions elsewhere we can ascertain that Jesus attitude toward sin 
was one of concern for acts done for the right reasons rather than for the
acts themselves.   Would it have been possible for her to commit adultery for
the right reason and to thus have been without sin?  Possibly, but not very
likely given the society and their mores and morals.  

What is important however is the fact that the sin was not adultery per se but
rather acting without love towards others.  Indeed, it is possible to have
intercourse in a sinful manner within marriage if it is done without love.
Likewise, there are situations where intercourse can occur outside of 
marriage in a truly loving manner and insofar as it is loving it is without
sin.

I personally do not find it unlikely that this kind of love can take place
between people of the same sex as well as between partners of opposite sexes.

>....So will he tell this group that what they are doing is
>wrong according to the immutable laws of God ....

You are right, God's law is immutable. You are wrong if you believe that the
substance of that law is anything other than Love.  Love is the measure of
the laws of God and like acts with and without love are respectively without
and with sin insofar as they are congruent or incongruent with God's love.

>....Will he tell them that they must repent for .... 
 
He probably will not.  That is presumably not his purpose.  But if they are 
serious Christians they repent and try to do better at loving their God, 
their neighbors, and themselves all the time anyway. 

>2) You state that God is Love (I Jn) but understand that you can not say "Love
>is God." God's love is holy love.... 

Certainly I can, Love is God!  There I have said it.  But when I do I need to
make some rather stringent qualifications.  Normally I prefer apophatic
expression.  Language can never comprehend the reality it seeks to 
represent.  It is however the tool we must often use.  When I say Love is
God, I speak not of a limited love but of an infinite love that only God
is capable of.  Love is so much the esse of God that for all practical
purposes they are the same.  Any love we feel is but a dim reflection of
the real Love that is God.  Knowing how real this mere dim reflection can
be between two human beings gives us a hint at how profound God-Love must
really be.

>     This (relating to gays and lesbians)I have done in Atlanta and in Chicago, both of which are major hubs. 
>But this is what I have found to be experientially true.  They want you (the
>church) to accept them as they are.  

Why not, God does.  Another of Jesus great lessons to us was to love 
unconditionally just as God does.  He wanted us to love, and to teach love.
He wanted us to seek to understand before seeking to be understood.  He
wanted us to meet one another person-to-person in love not in judgement
or in criticism but in love.  The only things we are called to do is to
love and teach love.

God is infinitely personal and God wants to meet us as the persons we are
and work with us there.  We are not perfect but God is and wherever we are
there God is waiting for us to open our hearts and minds and souls to him.
Because God is infinitely personal he understands and values the nature
of personhood.  Will God ask you to change?  Absolutely, but not as a 
condition for his love.  Rather God will ask you to change as a result
of his love.  Likewise, we can only ask one another to change through
love. 

>....  Its not that we shouldn't take risks, its that we must preach the
>whole Gospel to the whole world.  The first part of that statement is the point
>of issue here.  The "Whole Gospel,"  not just those doctrines that don't
>condemn us.

The Gospel condemns no one.  We condemn ourselves by our own shortcomings.
But these shortcoming have simply to do with our inability to accept the
Love of God and our inability to love unconditionally as Jesus taught us to. 
Gospel means good news and the good news is that God loves us and that God
will help us to love one another.


"Walk in Love as Christ loves and gave himself for us."

In Christ,

Mike