From: stojanov@husc11.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.europe.misc,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: Klara Mandic (was: Re: Croatian dreams)
Date: 12 Dec 92 18:29:24 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1992Dec11.014050.3147@src.umd.edu> J. Loncaric writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.092847.18344@husc3.harvard.edu> stojanov@husc11.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic) writes:
>>
>>What happened with the article about Klara Mandic? Or apology? 
>>
>>Milan
>
>Klara Madic, a Serbian propagandist, has been advertised as a "Jewish leader".
>I thought she was not Jewish at all.  

	You thought?  See your exact words at the end!  Even when caught
lying, you do not apologise, but go on attacking me, for saying that you 
are lying?!  I have paraphrased Ducic once, let me do it for a second
time:


"Josip Loncaric is not dangerous for what he has, but for what he does not
have - SHAME"



>Mr. Stojanovic claimed that she
>was genetically Jewish, brought up by a Serbian family.  If she was, she
>clearly did not receive Jewish moral teachings, because she has undertaken
>to spread hateful propaganda although she knew it was not true.  Here is
>what "Midstream", a monthly Jewish reivew, has to say about her:
>

Not "Midstream," but Philip Cohen, important difference!
Just a short comment:

>
>   HOLOCAUST HISTORY MISAPPROPRIATED
>   ---------------------------------
>   by Philip J. Cohen
>   "Midstream", November 1992, pp.18-20.
>   
>   ... Dr. Mandic knew that Ankica Konjuh was neither a Jew
>   nor could have been killed by Croats.  Bona-fide witnesses have testified
>   that Ankica Konjuh, a 67-year-old Croat, was one of 240 civilians 
>   massacred by Serbian forces after the last armed Croat defenders were
>   driven from the region.  


	So, who are these "bona-fide witnesses?  Croats?
	Why should anyone thrust them?  

>         When Dr. Mandic was asked to comment on Serbian (Yugoslav
>   Army) shelling of the synagogue of Dubrovnik, the second oldest
>   surviving synagogue in Europe, she denied that the synagogue had
>   ever been damaged at all.  Meanwhile, the attack had been well
>   documented by the Jewish community of Dubrovnik and the World 
>   Monument Fund.
>  

No, she denied that Serbs attacked the Synagogue!  The way the monument
was damaged shows that damage was done by internal fire, not by shelling!
Similar damages might be found on some Serbian historical buildings in
Dubrovnik!  HOS activities in Dubrovnik, perharps?



>   -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>So, Mr. Stojanovic, while I thought Klara Mandic was not Jewish, it turns
>out that the woman she wrote about, Ankica Konjuh, isn't Jewish.  Moreover,
>you KNEW the Mandic article was a fabrication.  Here is what you wrote:
>   ------
    ~~~~~~~	
Really?

I am supposed to know this where from?  November 1992 issue?

>[ Milan Stojanovic writes: ]
>
In August 1992, yes

>>Why are you changing the subject suddenty?  Are you feeling that 
>>you will recover the lost credibility due to you claims about 
>>a) Klara Mandic ( you will never be able to produce anything 
>                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>convincing to back your claims, and actually I do know that you mixed
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>her with someone else, but let that be my little secret) b) [...]
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>

>MILAN STOJANOVIC, YOU KNEW I MIXED UP KLARA MANDIC WITH ANKICA KONJUH, 
>BUT YOU HID THIS TRUTH!!!  You'll do anything to spread your propaganda...
>


This is unbelievable.  You spread lie here, and I am supposed to
help you come out of the hole you dug for yourself?  BTW, as
we would see I did not comment the article that was posted ( not by me )
but your lie that she was not Jewish!

And you qoute an article from November 1992 from Jewish Journal to 
prove that Ankica Konjuh is not a Jew.  I am supposed to have read
this article in mid-August 1992 to know this "fact?" You are sick.

Someone else - Bozidar Kosutic, Serbian ambassador to Israel !
( His words: " We are all Jews" - meaning we understand what happened
to them, were misinterpreted by Croats as his attempt to pretend to be
Jew ). 

BTW, what is _my_ propaganda here?  Did I post something that was not
truth?  Have you ever caught me lying? Or do you claim that I am 
responsible for everything some Serbs come up with?  

To conclude here:  You have said something which was not correct, and 
I claimed that you were lying.  Period.

>At this point, I think you owe me an apology!!!  Instead, you use your bit of
>knowledge (that it's not Klara Mandic but Ankica Konjuh who isn't Jewish)
>to discredit my posting.  

Again, I knew only that Klara Mandic was Jew, for I read her interview 
some time before!  The most of her family vanished in WWII. 

Your posting is already discredited by the fact that you lied! Or
to put it more mildly, you have, blinded by hatred/rage produced
things you have no knowledge off! 
Of course that such posts should be discredited!

>
>Mr. Stojanovic, you and Klara Mandic are not trustworthy at all.  

I do not get it. I not trustworthy for claiming that Klara Mandic is Jewish?
That you are liar, which you finally admitted?

>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>....................................................................
>Mr. Stojanovic, I think I've made my point.  Klara Mandic is completely
>out of step with the Jewish moral tradition.  Perhaps you should examine
>your own morals, too.
>

Indeed?  You dare to say this to someone?  Any normal person would 
apologise a long time ago, the same moment you have
found out what you have done, but not you! 


>--Josip

Now, to remind everyone, here is how did this go:

In article <1992Aug19.214145.7420@src.umd.edu> you wrote:
>Mr. Stojanovic has moved this debate from facts to attacks on my person.  He 
>has apparently run out of arguments...  my response could be long and boring, 
>because defense against personal attacks usually is, but for the record I'm 
>obliged to respond.  Sigh...


So, first complaining that I am becoming personal, while he is 
clearly out of touch with reality!
How can I not run out of arguments when this person, Josip Loncaric,
is producing tones of misinterpretations and lies?  I remember this
one: " Serbs are guilty for WWI, thus for Hitler and WWII..." 


>>>  ..................................................>
MP>>>>By Klara Mandic
>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
JL>>>Mrs. Madic is a Serbian propagandist and not Jewish at all.
JL>>                                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JL>>>Josip
>>
MNS>>I am surprised how far are you ready to go in this.
MNS>>Mrs. Mandic is Jewish. I would like to believe that you are
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
JL>Your information is incorrect.
>

Look how sure he is!  There is no discussion about Ankica Konjuh!
Or anyone else!


MNS>>not such a pathological liar, that you are just naive and
MNS>>believe everything you read in the third rate Croatian Journals.
MNS>>Although in the appended article, which I decided at first not
MNS>>to post, I will show that you have once again used the same
MNS>>method.  Lie, avoid to apologize, hoping that your
MNS>>lie would stay as a truth in at least some readers' heads.
>
JL>I'm stating what I know.  She's a Serbian part of the "Serbian-Jewish 
JL>Friendship Society" whose primary purpose is to smear Croats as fascists.

There is nowhere "what I think."  Only "I know."  Is it how you know 
other things as well? 

Good-bye,

Milan
Newsgroups: alt.politics.europe.misc,soc.culture.yugoslavia