HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bn566@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ward Chanley)
Subject: Re: Heterosexual Exploitation of Homosexuality?
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 05:55:21 GMT


Re: I had no interest in interfering

That sounds a lot more appealing than
the "all she really needs is a good man"
crsap that I hear from straight boys 
after watching blowdried lipstick 
lesbians ina straight porn video...

Maybe part of the rreason they include
those scenes is so these twits can
do this macho posturing.

-- 
"Imagine a war in which everyone won..."
Pet Shop Boys, "DJ Culture"
-----------------------------------------
Ward Chanley - bn566@cleveland.freenet.edu
From: cuzz@ellis.uchicago.edu (Laura Cuzzillo)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: These Boots Weren't Made For Walking
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:48:55 GMT
Reply-To: cuzz@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: The University of Chicago

I once had a funny boot/shoe experience.  I was shopping in one of those
discount shoe stores where all the shoes are on racks arranged by size
and you try them on yourself without a clerk.  I was looking for a
pair of boots appropriate for winter hiking, like Timberlines or the
like.  They didn't have anything like that in the women's section, so
I was trying on "men's" boots.  Well, the smallest men's sizes were
right by the end of the women's shoes, which were the largest women's
sizes.  So there I was in my Chicago winter uniform (jeans, bulky
sweater, down jacket) trying on these shit-kicker boots, inch thick
waffle soles, steal toes, etc.  Sharing the bench with me was a man
in the same Chicago winter uniform, but he was trying on red, 3 inch
spike healed pumps.  We were quite the pair, standing in front of
the mirror, checking out our selections.  We both got a big laugh out
of it.

Laura
cuzz@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Saturday, 11 Apr 1992 10:26:54 EDT
From: Tim Bieling <QAA@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Responding to Bigots
 <1992Apr08.174240.87725@watson.ibm.com> <zvrjh4-.onr@netcom.com>

In article <zvrjh4-.onr@netcom.com>, onr@netcom.com (D. Owen Rowley) says:
>
>In article <1992Apr08.174240.87725@watson.ibm.com> jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
>(Jake Coughlin) writes:
>Problems occur when un-seasoned motssers blast away, or use bad-logic
>to answer the attack.

I'd think everyone is guilty of the above at one time or another.
I know that net.motss was a great resource for me when I was
firmly in the closet.  (I think it was 82 or 83 when I discovered
netnews)

>I think that there are a muliplicity of factors that go into each case, and
>that each needs to be handled seperately.
>I happen to favor the take it to e-mail approach for a few reasons, mostly
>because I find that these guys are honest in their beliefs about us and
>can be talked to in a rational manner. Some have become good e-pals strange
>as it seems??

I've experienced the same thing - even the infamous Whitehead
character was quite civil in private e-conversation.  Couldn't
call him an e-pal tho.

>[...]
>>  homophobes usually can't deal with camp and wander away...
>
>Or my favorite technique, I mail to 'em and start talking explicit sex.
>I mean come on, speaking from the male side of the equation, mens sexuality is
>mens sexuality, we DO know what we're talking about.. don't we..
>I do!
>It shouldn't be surprizing that most of 'em are actually fascinated with the
>process :-)

Hehehe - yup, some straight guys are truely curious! :)

-Tim
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Thursday, 16 Apr 1992 23:17:41 EDT
From: Ailsa N.T. Murphy <IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Seasoned Motssers (was Re: Responding to Bigots)
 <1992Apr9.142915.2865@osf.org> <rvsj95+.onr@netcom.com>
 <92104.151318IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> <1992Apr14.002725.1772@news.unomaha.edu>
 <1992Apr14.130741@wsl.dec.com>

now THAT could be interesting!  can we have the measurer of our choice?
since i have had a child, and HE obviously hasn't, i will win, hands
down...  B)

                                           -ailsa
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: outing the stars
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:47:23 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) wrote:
>In article <1992Apr13.153908.15077@amhux2.amherst.edu> twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>>>>Not being a lesbian, I became a computer scientist.
> 
>I thought about dropping this in my .signature file, but I decided it
>would really only be appropriate in soc.motss. I envisoned some
>posting of mine to a technical newsgroup in which someone reads the
>signature and gets offended. I should fix my signature software to be
>newsgroup specific.

I sense worrying a little about what phobes might think.  Not a good idea,
IMHO.  For the record, I have not received any flack for any incarnation
of my .sig in any of the newgroups to which I have posted.

                                                                        ____
    Sim David Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3338.span@sdsc.edu \  /
     April 4, 1992  Marjorie Stoneman Douglas' 102nd birthday            \/
      I'll probably see her out dancing.
From: huxtable@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Kathryn Huxtable)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Lesbians and Fried Green Tomatoes (was Oscars)
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:37:29 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1992Apr4.211249.28850@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
    writes:
> Why doesn't anyone raise any flack over "Fried Green Tomatoes"? Oh yeah,
> the censored lesbians.

In article <1992Apr4.224245.27245@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
    writes:
> I dunno.  After having seen the movie, it seemed like the
> filmmakers tried to have it all--the women's lesbianism was
> obvious to anyone clued in (a lot more than Jodie Foster's
> acceptance speech!) while still muted for the oblivious.

Yeah but not to straights.  I saw Kate Clinton perform over
the weekend and she was talking about some West Coast LGB
organization that gave the movie an award for its portrayal
of a lesbian relationship.  She said something along the
lines of:

    How would anyone know they were lesbians?  Uh, let's
    see, one of them wears a tie and the other one wears a
    dress and they never have sex.  They *must* be lesbians!

That woman is dangerous.

> only to be dreaming of Idgie (Mary Stuart Masterson) for
> months thereafter...

Ah, yes...  I've been wearing vests (and ties) a *lot* more
often since watching that movie.

-- 
Kathryn Huxtable              \   "Women who laugh too much, and the women
huxtable@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu   /\   who love them." --- Jamie Anderson
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: onr@netcom.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Subject: Re: Heterosexual Exploitation of Homosexuality?
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 03:14:55 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Apr10.213208.20284@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>In article <1992Apr9.220028.3575@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> jfh@greenber.austin.ibm.com (John F Haugh II) writes:
>>>Madonna exploits everything. The fact that she is exploiting us homos
>>>is a sign that we are winning.
>>This is nonsense - if the actors in these films are being paid a fair
>>wage for their efforts, no one is being exploited.  Sounds more like
>>you guys are jealous you aren't making the big buck$ working as a porn
>>star ...
>
>This paragraph, more than any other thing you have said on this forum,
>indicates that you really have absolutely *no* comprehension of gay
>culture. You really didn't understand what I meant by "exploit", did
>you? I feel sorry for you.

Well.. I gotta say that I have problems with the original statement too.
probably different problems than JH, but may I remind you both that arguing
points of relative values in absolutist terms winds up looking like
childish *you are too .. I am not* games.

Its pretty clear that JH is rather ignorant of our ciscumstances, and
displays even more ignorance in attempting to offer his mis-conceptions
as facts we should all bow down too.
But remember this kind of guy is typical of the poorly socialized,
politically insulated, sterotypical.... uh ... nerd ( there I said it)
Soc.motss has been inundated with this type of individual lately,
Sometimes its hard to tell one from the other, their thinking process
is so similar. For what its worth they don't get along with any one else
either, and getting people pissed off is a spectator sport in their
judgemnet.

>But I have to ask - why are you here? It's fairly clear from your
>general belligerent attitude that you aren't interested in being
>friendly to us. I don't think you want to actually learn anything from
>us.

No he's worn out his welcome somewhere else, and we were just the lucky 
winners :-(

LUX .. owen

-- 
D. Owen Rowley .. Note this acct is not my primary USENET access
mail gets to me quicker if you send it to owen@autodesk.com

*No matter where you go, there you are.*
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: larry@bradley.bradley.edu (Larry D. Stratton)
Subject: Re: Lip synching and stuff
Organization: Bradley University
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 16:05:21 GMT


   Why is it that a melody/song/tune you are trying to recall will
   not pop into your head yet a melody/song/tune you loathe won't
   leave you alone? 
-- 

  In search of a sig.
    suggestions solicited
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael Thomas)
Subject: Re: Gay Oscars (Jodie Comes Out)
Reply-To: mike@gordian.com (Michael Thomas)
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 16:19:50 GMT

In article <1992Apr5.032454.21642@bradley.bradley.edu>, larry@bradley.bradley.edu (Larry D. Stratton) writes:
|>    Hell, Rock Hudson's death hasn't made it any easier for the HIV+
|>    people in the industry.  What makes you think 3 oscars, which are
|>    only important to the industry as it translates into box office
|>    bucks, is any insurance?
|> 
|>    If Jodie or anyone else 'came out', I don't think you would see
|>    much of them in the future.  After all, isn't Harvey Firesteen (sp)
|>    the darling of Hollywood?   NOT.

    I don't know, I think Jojo's assesment is mostly correct -- Hollywood only
knows one color: green. It is not necessarily clear that Hollywood would shun
a major star *if* they thought that it could make a buck off of it. In their
machinations, I could even believe that they might think it was trendy after
a while (sort of like doing drugs etc was 10 years ago). 
    The real point of this is that we will never know until somebody of 
Jodie Foster's stature comes out and forces reactionary Hollywood to make
a conscious decision one way or the other. They are _definitely_ not going
to be avant garde about it on their lonesome.
    I don't think the Hudson analogy is very accurate. Hudson was certainly
not in his prime in the early 80's, and was mostly an ignorable entity as
far as Hollywood was concerned (gay or not). Foster might be a different
story...
-- 
		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
From: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: hilarious article
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 23:11:47 GMT
Reply-To: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca


> :A fag is... a big ugly hairy woman with a penis.

Egad! Call Artimus Page! I'm heterosexual after all! I never wanted men,  
all I wanted was a big hairy woman with a penis!!!! Now that I have shed  
this terrible homosex disease, I can live a happy, fulfilling, AIDS-free  
life with my hairy penised woman. We will have sex only in the missionary  
position, and go to church every Sunday. We will eat Wonder bread and  
twinkies. Oh, life is fine indeed when one is normal.

Perhaps, though, she should change her name. "John" just isn't a womanly  
appellation.


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Heinlein and sexism (Was Asimov and sexism)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 22:02:05 GMT


In article <1992Apr10.211648.22215@cs.ubc.ca>
manis@cs.ubc.ca (Vincent Manis) writes:

>This discussion of LGB SF writers just reminded me of a story I once
>read [...]
>The real threat was packs of dogs, which had
>mutated and become (a) intelligent and (b) very homophobic. Something
>about gay people would set them off and they would tear them to pieces.
>[...]

>This story scared the hell out of me when I read it, and even now, not
>really having thought about it for years, I feel a shiver. 

I've not read the story, but the image certainly rings true,
as a metaphor for the kinds of dogs (human) who've mutated
(lost their humanity) and become packs (note well) of
snarling, murderous homophobes.  Sounds very much like the
ones we know so well.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: bn566@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ward Chanley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Heterosexual Exploitation of Homosexuality?
Date: 9 Apr 92 01:05:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr9.010524.8146
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)


Does Madonna Exploit Homos?

Hey, guy, that -IS- the Goddess you
are talking about, you know...on the
face of it, being turned on by 
depictions of homosexuality isn't
necesarrily exploitative (Goddess
knows they turn me on...) the objec-
tivication of men and/or women as
nothing more than sex objects to be
used merely to titillate is exploit-
ative, and in the case of Madonna's
usage of Queer imagery, some will 
see boys kissing as exactly such 
exploitation, and some, seeing
the dangerously negative depictions
of Queers on film this past year
will see that onscreen kiss as a 
fabulous event...
-- 
"Imagine a war in which everyone won..."
Pet Shop Boys, "DJ Culture"
-----------------------------------------
Ward Chanley - bn566@cleveland.freenet.edu
From: gsmith@concour.cs.concordia.ca (Gene Ward Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Heterosexual Exploitation of Homosexuality?
Date: 13 Apr 92 04:38:06 GMT
Organization: Centre Interuniversitaire en Calcul Mathematique Algebrique

In article <1992Apr12.112714.13193@news.unomaha.edu> ACM022@Zeus.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:

>Are you implying that you were able, but didn't continue to do so? Why
>would you stop?

Well, it's not that much fun and I'm too fat--how's that for reasons?
--
     Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/CICMA/Concordia University 
                  gsmith@concour.cs.concordia.ca
From: levin@oakland.bbn.com (Joel B Levin)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Capping worthless threads
Date: 17 Apr 1992 19:33:33 GMT
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
Reply-To: levin@BBN.COM (Joel B Levin)
NNTP-Posting-Host: powell.bbn.com

In article <1992Apr17.185849.9268@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
|In article <92107.224121IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
|IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T.  Murphy) writes:
|
|>po-russkiy:  sadityes ha rukakh!  (i hope.  my russian is pretty
|>rusty...)
|
|More than good enough.  Po-russki (with i and no yery).

Though I have myself no shortage of rust, don't you have to decide
whether you want to say "na rukakh" or "ha rukax"?  (Maybe it works
better in caps)

	/JBL
=
Nets: levin@bbn.com  |  "There were sweetheart roses on Yancey Wilmerding's
 or {...}!bbn!levin  |  bureau that morning.  Wide-eyed and distraught, she
POTS: (617)873-3463  |  stood with all her faculties rooted to the floor."
                     |					-- S. J. Perelman
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Big Bri)
Subject: Re: IS OUTING ETHICAL?
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 17:30:34 GMT

aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:

>In a previous article, farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Big Bri) wrote:
>|>I think it's very unethical for gays...
>|>I think that gays...
>|>I think it's selfish of some gay activist groups...
>|>for their selfish purposes. 
>|>you should respect their right...

>|>NOTE: I am not a homophobe and I do not think any less of homosexuals than 
>|>of heterosexuals. 

>Thank you for sharing.  We'll do exactly as you say now that we've seen
>the light.

In your attempt to be sarcastic you neglected to answer the question.


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: balistik@big-brother.nevada.edu (Shawn Hicks)
Subject: Re: The Mythical Marketplace of Ideas
Organization: Not yet, but we're working on it...
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 02:16:57 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.205302.9173@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca>, aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno) writes:
[...]
>Personally, I am a believer in the marketplace of ideas. As such, I oppose  
>censorship of all kinds, even the censorship of my enemies. As such, while  
>I might engage in counter-protests, the call to "drown out" the KKK  
>strikes me as reprehensible.
>
>But believe me, I am in no way comfortable about it.
>
>-Anthony

Perhaps a better idea would be to simply be present as observers. As long
as a group like the KKK can represent us as objects instead of people
their message of hate will be more paletable. Placing a human face over
the 'object' might be more constructive than drowning out the speakers.

When the Brady family came to UNLV to speak on Gun laws a great number of
people disrupted their lecture. I was upset. Not because I agree with
Gun control laws, but because I felt the the crowd was rude. In affect 
they were preventing any view point but their own from being expressed. 

From my year on the net I've seen Cl*yt*n, *rt*m*s, and others spread
misinformation and hate on my monitor. I've always thought it was annoying,
but not nearly as annoying as the possibility of missing BBC, Stever Dyer,
Max, Jojo, Melinda, and many others I've learned from or shared with. 


Shawn

Spring break-- day 1
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: These Boots Weren't Made For Walking
Date: 9 Apr 92 08:26:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Apr9.082607.14630
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Apr9.071440.16330@news.unomaha.edu> ACM022@Zeus.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>Motss relevance: What's your favorite pair of shoes?

Oh yeah, that makes sense.

My favourite pair of shoes are *none at all*. I'm a barefoot boy. I
usually carry around a pair of Chinese black slippers in my back
pocket in case a restaurant gets officious, but I haven't found much
of a problem with that in Oregon.

I love the little Chinese black slippers. They're cheap, portable, can
pass as semi-formal wear, and are comfortable. When I was in high
school I was forced to wear a school uniform. What did I do to express
my individuality? I took psychedelics and painted the slippers all
trippy. Sort of silly, but I enjoyed having weird shoes in a straight
prep school.

I broke down and bought a pair of hiking boots, though - grey Merrels.
They're nice for wet and cold wear.

Why do women own so many more shoes than men, on the average?
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/    The look in his eyes when it hit - Kid, it was tasty...
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Friday, 17 Apr 1992 08:44:46 EDT
From: <SECBH@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Paul Cadmus, Midtown Payson Gallery (NYC), until April 18

Paul Cadmus's drawings are, in my estimation, are much more beautiful
than his paintings......they are usually done in pastel or chalk on
coloured stock as I recall.

This guy was one of my first gay heroes.  He was a serious artist who
stuck his neck and didn't allow his work to become for-queers-only.

Jack Carroll
From: stevenso@Apple.COM (David Stevenson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Heinlein & Who Are Vincent's Three?
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:55:35 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

manis@cs.ubc.ca (Vincent Manis) reports:
>Clarke's response was
>his well-known postcard which he sends to all unsolicited mail. Instead
>of checking off one of the boxes, he simply scrawled on it ``Who blew my
>cover?'' 
>
It was that dolphin he jilted back in 73, wasn't it?
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Siting Cons (was Re: Regarding the NY/NJ CON Proposal)
Reply-To: shore@tc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 18:29:42 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.152638.2947@queernet.org>, rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
> Or do you find "visiting" to be an
> activity instead of a circumstance?

My word.  Must be one of those urban dwellers I've heard so 
much about.  
-- 
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ACM022@Zeus.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Straight Child molesters?
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:39:47 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

In <TB40iB4w164w@Nitro.CtEdge.COM> djk@Nitro.CtEdge.COM writes:

> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> 
> > He's probably not the worst we have to deal with in our
> > lives, but he's close enough so the differences aren't very
> > important.

Jess, please, you're making it haughty.

> Of course it is everyone else that has the problem... RIGHT JESS..

(shudder shudder sweat sweat) Ohhhhh, boy, Jess. He's gotcha there.
Gosh, but I'm glad I'm not the bug being crushed under the big, gut-
encrusted thumb that /is/ djk.

Sweatin' dem bullets,

---
John Dorrance				** Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico **
ACM022@zeus.unomaha.edu
	You bring me to my knees while I'm scratching at the eyes
	Of a world I want to conquer and deliver and despise.
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Nice Delaney quote.
Date: 12 Apr 92 08:59:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Apr12.085948.28933
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

I just finished Delaney's book "Babel 17", a light science fiction
thing you could easily live a full life having never read. However,
this particular quote is kinda nice - it's spoken by a nice normal
person who has had a boring life until one evening where he's taken to
the sleazy underworld and has a great time:

"'I saw a bunch of the weirdest, oddest people I have ever met in my
life, who thought different, and acted different, and even made love
different. And they made me laugh, and get angry, and be happy, and be
sad, and excited, and even fall in love a little. ... And they didn't
seem to be so weird or strange anymore.'"
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/  Look, over there, it's a real dog and it's really talking
From: wells@cs.hw.ac.uk (Francis Wells)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Mormon pamphlet: "For Young Men Only"
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:19:38 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Heriot-Watt University, Scotland

In article <1992Apr3.044944.28456@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>In article <rg5r9INN4fj@agate.berkeley.edu>
>gnn@manray.Berkeley.EDU (George Neville-Neil) writes:
>
>>I think masturbation must be what keeps people young looking :-)
>
>Works rather well for me, anyway.
>

I think you shouldn't let yourself be fooled, my sweet; there is no better way
if making yourself look younger than by having someone rub you down with ice-
cream (BBQ ripple if you are Ciaran) and then proceeding to lick it off...
...it just pushes back those wrinkles ;-)

Frankums.
______________________________________________________________________________
        This pink triangle was drawn \bi/ Francis Joseph Wells
An Englishman _abroad_ - vote S.N.P.  \/                    wells@hci.hw.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.motss