HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 09:33:37 LCL
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         RJKOPP@SUVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: spinning
              23 Jul 1992 09:28:00 PDT from <DANM@MSMAIL.HUMAN.CORNELL.EDU>

With the spinning discussion going on, that just brought something back
that I forgot.  My daughter doesn't spin on her own that often, but about
a week ago we brought her to an amusement park.  She seemed real anxious
to go on one of the "big" rides and we wanted to get her away from so many
of the kiddie rides, that she really seems to want to go on but then gets
board with and decides she would like to get off (she tried this once on
the boats that go around in the little pool! Much to the attendants alarm!)

She saw the Tilt-O-Whirl and decided that's what she wanted!  My wife can't
stand this ride but convinced herself that it would be Ok it's only in her
head!  I used to love this ride and would try to go for the whole ride without
holding on!  My daughter, was kind of shocked at first, but then really got
into it.  She was really having a good time, about half way through I was
wondering if my wife was going to make it through it, but my daughter and
I had a good time.  IN fact my daughter liked it so much, that trying to get
off she walked right around to the in gate and would have gone right back on.
Needless to say my wife needed a little help, so my daughter was a little
upset that we didn't go on it again.

Temple granding also talked about a ride where it spins and eventually the
bottom drops out of it.  I wonder if my daughter would like that too.  My
wife and I went on one when we were teenagers (eons ago) and both of us
got sick, so I'm afraid my daughter probably will not get to do that until
she can do it herself or with a friend.

Thanks,
Ray Kopp
Syracuse, New York
Internet:rjkopp@mailbox.syr.edu
Bitnet:RJKOPP@SUVM.BITNET
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 09:40:36 -0500
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         "Deborah V. Good" <dgood@UB.D.UMN.EDU>
Subject:      Re: losing speech
              92 3:24 am

Regarding Don's suggestion that patterning be adopted for therapy for
autistic children who lose their speech.  Don, I had read with interest
your previous posts regarding your speech quality and how patterning
assisted you greatly.

Thought others might be interested in the following.  My 6 year old PDD son had
   a visit with a developmental opthamologist
yesterday as we and his teachers had concerns about how he perceived
things.  As long as we were there, we asked about patterning since
our son's speech can be garbled sounding.  She indicated that he was too
young to proceed with that type of therapy.  Alas, we didn't ask at the
time at what age that type of therapy could be tried, but I'm certain I
could find out her opinion if anyone's interested.  Deb
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 03:11:33 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Don <74240.1347@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      needs to be spinned

People with a lot of frustration and anxiety to deal with
have a greater need to fill their senses.

This one fact cn explain much of MY  abnormal benabior over the years.
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 11:12:45 PST
Reply-To:     Michael Peirce <peirce%outpost.SF-Bay.org@harvunxw>
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Michael Peirce <peirce%outpost.SF-Bay.org@HARVUNXW.BITNET>
Subject:      Spinning

In Regards to your letter <9207221259.AA10780@talcott.harvard.edu>:
>
> Your comments on David wanting to spin on your chair really intrigued me.
> Our son would spend hours at a time on a rocking horse. The speech
> therapist at our school loaned us a book describing a syndrome whose name
> escapes me. It had to do with the need to stimulate the fluids in the
> glands, etc. Children who appeared to have severe learning problems were
> first given several minutes of "play" on a device which allowed them to
> spin and move in all directions. After that, they made far greater
> progress in a therapy session than they did without the spinning.
> Has anyone else had any experience with the spinning as therapy? It was
> very odd that at about age 5 (I think), our son lost all interest in
> rocking horses or anything similar.

David is very much into spinning.  He likes to spin in office chairs,
MerryGoRounds, grabbed by the arms and swung around (he's getting
to big for this and it makes me dizzy!), and will sometimes just twirl
himself around.

He seems to do it less now than in the past, I'm not sure if that's because
he's just getting bigger or there is another reason.

When he spins he gets very giggly and smiles a lot.  It doesn't have
a calming effect on him, rather he gets excited.  I don't know if
he is more able to stay on task better after spinning, but it sounds like
something to try out.

Oh yes, his favorite playground toy is the swing.  He still hasn't
figured out that pumping his legs will keep him going, but as long
as someone is pushing his he just loves it.

Again I don't know if this is related, but David's favorite activity
is swimming and water play.  He's a fish!  He can spend hours in the
water and splash around, float, or simply keep bobbing up and down.

He has one-on-one lessons twice a week at a theraputic swim center
here in San Jose.  He just loves going to them.  He has had the same
instructor for a couple of years now and she has taught him some good
technique.  It's taken a long time, but he's good at floating now and
can swim across the pool.  He's just begun jumping off the board.

He even likes to take his baths - every night.

--  Michael Peirce      --   peirce@outpost.SF-Bay.org
--  Peirce Software     --   Suite 301, 719 Hibiscus Place
--                      --   San Jose, California USA 95117
--  Makers of...        --   voice: (408) 244-6554 fax: (408) 244-6882
--            SMOOTHIE  --   AppleLink: peirce & America Online: AFC Peirce
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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 12:13:56 PDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Lyle Lexier <lexier@SFU.CA>
Subject:      around multi-lingual environments
X-To:         AUTISM%SJUVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
              24, 92 12:18 pm

Hello everyone,

I too was exposed to another language other than English.  My mom speaks fluent
Yiddish.  I also liked French.  So when I was only six, I could
 understandYiddish and French a bit - and fluent English.  Now I speak English,
 German,
French, Hebrew, and  Yiddish, with a bit of Spanish as well.  So therefore it
isn't bad to expose an autistic person to more than one language in the home.
It did me a lot of good.  Now I have the opportunity to deal with people and
have friends and work buddies from various cultural backgrounds.

Lyle
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 08:00:00 EST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Speed Bump <DNWIEBE@OWUCOMCN.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: KIDS!

Anne writes:
>Dan, just out of curiousity, did you ask someone and they
>didn't know, and you had no other source of the information but
>to try it yourself??? Or were you too young at the time to have
>considered all of that?  Anne

        As I remember, there was no one available to ask at the time;
everybody that was around was too busy to take the time to understand a
question like that--and it would have taken me awhile to explain clearly
so that I got the answer I was looking for, rather than the answer to a
slightly different question that, while informative, didn't help me with
the problem I had.  If you'll remember, it took me a couple of tries to
get people on this list to understand exactly what I meant as well.
        So, rather than cause trouble, I decided just to experiment
myself.  As it happened, I ended up causing trouble anyway, but only
because Mom noticed me leaking onto the floor before I got to the
bathroom where the bandages were.

Dan
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Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1992 18:42:34 -0400
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         FARBER_R@SPCVXA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: bilingual homes

Lisa,
    Thanks for the copies.They arrived today.I appreciate it.
Dominick's mom visited the Alpine school.She liked it very much.
Unfortunately they don't have an opening at the present time
either.However they are in the process of looking for larger
quarters and then would take 8 more children.More than likely
it wouldn't be in time for September.She's meeting with the
team on Tuesday.She still isn't convinced that she'll be able
to make demands on the district,I also tried to convince
her that she should also be asking for her younger son as well.
Rosanne
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Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1992 19:29:00 EST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Speed Bump <DNWIEBE@OWUCOMCN.BITNET>
Subject:      Pronoun reversal

        As far as I know, I've never had problems with pronoun reversal,
but if I did, the reason would probably be that I've always tended to look
at things very objectively, and frequently it's difficult for me to special-
case myself out of a group of people.  This is hard to describe, because
nobody ever seems to understand it, but maybe in this group it'll be dif-
ferent.  If I'm in a group of people, many times I consider the group from
the viewpoint of an outside observer, and I have to keep consciously
remembering that a particular one of those people, the one right *there*,
is kind of special, because it happens to be the body that's attached to
my intellect.  I have to keep remembering this because I'm the one with the
responsibility of making sure that particular person doesn't get into
trouble somehow--turning him aside when he's about to run into a wall,
or stifling his sneeze when he's in church, and just generally making sure
that all his sensory inputs, which I have access to, are properly processed
and responded to.
        It's kind of as if I were sitting in a blockhouse somewhere
surrounded by controls and video screens, and controlling a human-looking
robot in its daily life.  The robot is my responsibility, but it's not
really *me.*  I'm all alone in my blockhouse, and if I am to interact with
others at all, I have to do it through my robot.  (This is no longer strictly
true; after going on eight years, Lauren and I are close enough that every
so often, she can actually come into my blockhouse with me and we can
communicate directly.)
        But anyway, this is why it's quite easy to consider my robot as
"him" or "they" along with everybody else.  Most of the people I meet in
my everyday life aren't interested in interacting with me anyway--they just
want to talk to the robot, or get something from the robot.  If my robot
gets thirsty, it's my responsibility to notice that and alleviate it; but
it's not *me* that's thirsty.  So what I think inside is, "He wants a drink."
However, that's not what I *say,* because I know that anyone I mention that
to will be communicating with me via the robot, so since they're going to
be hearing the statement from the robot, it's a lot easier for all concerned
to direct the robot to say, "I want a drink."
        But it makes sense to me why someone else who works in the same
way, possibly younger than I, would confuse the two.
        Of course, maybe I'm just weird...

Shalom,
Dan
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Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 10:21:47 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Daniel Mont <D6M@CORNELLA.BITNET>
Subject:      support groups, networks, etc.

I received a call last night from a woman who a graduate student of mine
babysits for.  My student, Lynette, told her that her son seemed a lot like
mine.  She called me obviously very concerned about her son's seeming loss
of speech and other behaviors.  We talked for awhile...I sensed the concern,
fear, determination, confusion -- all the feelings that I had when we began
to learn that Alex was autistic.  There's little doubt in my mind that her son,
 age 3, is autistic. He reverses his pronouns,has some echolalia, enjoys solita
ry, repetitive behaviors, has no imaginative play, is losing his speech,
has a very long attention span for books and memorized about thirty of them bef
ore he was three....all in all he sounds like a typical high functioning child
with autism.  I gave this woman "Children With Autism: A Parent's Guide" ed, by
Michael Powers and I also gave her "High Functionin Individuals With Autism" by
Susan Moreno. These are two books I'd highly recommend -- especially the latter
for parents of high functioning autistics.

I, of course, did not say "your child is autistic". I just urged her to get
an evaluation done at multiple places and to do it soon because early
intervention is so important.  I also told her about this net.

I guess the reason I am writing this is to emphasize how important support
groups and information networks are.  It helps a lot to talk to people
who have been where you are and to get the benefits from their efforts
and knowledge.  That's why this network is such a valuable thing.  That's
why we should all make ourselves available to people with the same challenges
that we have.  I was clutched after talking to this woman; but I was also
uplifted in the sense that I saw how far Alex and the rest of us have come
and how none of us are alone.

Dan M.
d6m@cornella
From: D6M@CORNELLA.BITNET (Daniel Mont)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Subject: Pronoun reversal
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:33:30 GMT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Alex also had the hallmark problem of pronoun reversal.  He has mastered this
noe, however, after much much practice, perserverence and patience on our
part.

His problem with pronouns now is restricted to not understanding what they
stand for when they are referring to in a sentence.  For example,

"You need a scale to weigh the oranges. That's why I put them on one."

What does "them" and "one" refer to? Clearly them=oranges and one=scale, but
Alex at times has a hard time figuring out from context what pronouns refer
to.  He has no problem with "you vs. I" or "he vs. she" now.

I'm convinced with continued help from us and his speech therapist he will
work this through.  He has already begun making progress. However, explain
these...

"It sure is cold outside."  or "It's just one of those things"

Invariably we end up on lengthy explanations.  Sometimes I actually find
them quite intriguing and I find myself learning something about our language.
Sometimes I want to pull all my hair out.  Then I think, "well, if it is
frustrating for me trying to explain all these complicated things all the
time, think about how Alex must feel experiencein language every day.  That
puts me in my place and gives me the added patience I need.

Dan M.
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 03:24:16 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Don <74240.1347@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      losing speech

I lost speech at age two  and regained it at age five.

Up until age 32 I had a strangled monotone  which was
corrected with dominnce patterning.

In reading the book  "For the Love of Ann",  there was a part about
how Ann's teacher George Glover noticed her mixed dominance.  After
that was corrected,  Ann's speech changed from  barely intelligible
to almost normal.

I then proceeded to correct my mixed dominance with an eye patch and
plug,  and then my speech was more normal.  The mucous caught in
my larynx drained,  and it was a GREAT feeling.

All this took about two hours.
I previously tried the  "conventional"  approaches with speech
therapists,  and it didn't do a bit of good.  Other people simply
thought that I didn't try hard enough long enough.


What all this is leading to:
Since the patterning I did  is considered a therapy for brain damage,
losing speech is probably due to a brain dysfunction.


How about trying patterning as a possible therapy for those who have lost their
 lost their speech?
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:07:28 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         IP15217@PORTLAND.BITNET
Subject:      FC skeptics

Natalie is a 7 year old (July 4) who is diagnosed as "classically" autistic.
From what i could glean from the ASA national conference is that she has
Kanner's syndrome.  I always knew that there was something going on cog-
nitavely upstairs.  I just never knew how much!!
Natalie is not tactily defensive, but she only trusts certain people and
will not facilitate with certain people.  There have been times that she
does not want her hand held and will spell out words on her own.  There
always seems to be a contact issue; there needs to be some.
I understand that she is 7 and she may not understand certain emotions
until later.  (Maybe comprehend is a better word).
Natalie will not always facilitate for others when they want to see her
do it.  As far as I'm concerned she needs to do it when she wants to.  As
Anne Donnellan stated in her workshop in Albuquerque, Facilitated com-
munication shoud be fun.
I hope that this information is helpful.

Curtis
internet IP15217@PORTLAND.MAINE.EDU
bitnet IP15217@PORTLAND.BITNET
-----------------------------------********-----------------------------------
R Kopp writes... Curtis would you include a little information about
your daughter such as her age and whether she is tactily defensive and
what her best facilitator or others are doing to address this.
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Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 07:37:05 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Anne Pemberton <apembert@VDOE386.VAK12ED.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Losing speech. (fwd)
X-To:         AUTISM%SJUVM.BitNet@pucc.princeton.edu
              "LNCJB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU" at Jul 31, 92 11:22 am

If the child had speech and lost it, there would be sufficient
proof in the pediatrician's records and family experiences. A
recording of such should NOT be necessary. Under current AMA
guildelines, I don't see any such solution for those with onset
that precedes acquiring speech. Anne
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 10:59:19 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Lisa S Lewis <LISAS@PUCC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: FC Skeptics
              22 Jul 1992 07:28:12 -0700 from <bennett@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>

On Wed, 22 Jul 1992 07:28:12 -0700 Thomas Bennett said:
>
>Your comments on David wanting to spin on your chair really intrigued me.
>Our son would spend hours at a time on a rocking horse. The speech
>therapist at our school loaned us a book describing a syndrome whose name
>escapes me. It had to do with the need to stimulate the fluids in the
>glands, etc. Children who appeared to have severe learning problems were
>first given several minutes of "play" on a device which allowed them to
>spin and move in all directions. After that, they made far greater
>progress in a therapy session than they did without the spinning.
>Has anyone else had any experience with the spinning as therapy? It was
>very odd that at about age 5 (I think), our son lost all interest in
>rocking horses or anything similar.
>
I don't know about "stimulating fluids" but this sounds as if you're
describing sensory integration techniques.  I think it is fairly well
established that many children with various learning problems have sensory
integration deficits. That is, their brain isn't organizing all the sensory
input.  I think that this is often the case for autistic children.

Some believe that the need to spin or rock demonstrates a need for that kind
of sensory input. A qualified occupational therapist can usually do an
evaluation to determine whether or not sensory integration therapy would
be helpful.

Our son has SI twice a week. His motor planning abilities have greatly
improved.  He enjoys the therapy (it's fun) and he's improved both fine and
gross motor skills.  He also (usually) shows a decrease in self-stimulatory
behavior for a period following SI.  Speech sessions that follow SI are
often more productive than speech sessions that are held independent of them.

>As an epilogue, I will add that Karl is now 16, competes on a neighborhood
>swim team, and has completed all the requirements for Eagle Scout (with no
>allowance made for his handicap). He still has lots of problems, and we
>send him to a very small private school, but this is a far cry from the
>prognosis we were given at age 3 when we were told he might spend his life
>in an institution. Hang in there!
>
Thanks for the eiplogue...lots of us can use encouraging words like these.

Lisa
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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:47:11 -0400
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Herb Schneiderman <SCHNEIDE@VAX.CS.HSCSYR.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Loss of Speach and Pronoun reversal in Autistics
X-To:         AUTISM%SJUVM.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU

Right on!
Herb
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:01:18 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Anne Pemberton <apembert@VDOE386.VAK12ED.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Losing speech. (fwd)
X-To:         AUTISM%SJUVM.BitNet@pucc.princeton.edu
              "bill@ihpds1.att.com" at Jul 30, 92 9:03 am

Bill,
   the insurance companies have always had those "minimum
adequate plans" as well as the "cadillac plans". Insurance
companies prefer to provide the "cadillac plans" as much
because they are easier to administer (fewer arguments with
insured over what is/isn't covered), as because there is also
(of course) more profit accruing to the insurance company
stockholders. Unfortunately many businesses decide to
short-change their employees and grab for "the cheapest" just
so they can say they *ARE* providing hospitalization, no matter
how inadequate. Minimum coverage is also a favorite with
businesses (and governments) who provide the coverage but
refuse to contribute to the coverage (which really messes up
the actuarial stats!!!) The county I work for just last year
started to pay towards school personnel's hospitalization ...
because Blue Cross REFUSED to write them a policy unless they
did (and people refused to come work here without
hospitalization). Anne
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 15:00:44 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         RJKOPP@SUVM.BITNET

Actually here is Herb's message!

As per our telephone conversation just now:
1. Lisa Lewis is correct. Pronoun reversal is very typical of autistic
speech, particularly in individuals with limited speech-not the Temple
Grandins of this world!
2. The history of autistic children beginning to speak and then losing
speech is a very common pattern. My son David did just that, and then did
not begin to speak until he was about six.

Herb Schneiderman
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