From: huumala@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Medical Programs (was RE: Swedish Prime Minister says Sweden)
Date: 8 Apr 92 20:30:41 GMT
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications.

> Of course I have gone to public high school in every state in the USA. 
> How can you even assume otherwise?
> 
> Have you?
No, but I am sure that I have attended more than you have and can vouch
for the fact that they vary from state to state and even school to shool
at times.  I would have to say from seeing the work done by those in high
school (Lukio) here in Finland and that which I did in the U.S., there is
really not much difference besides languages.  The U.S. is definitely 
lagging in that department.  We should really require at least one foreign
language.  I know comparing Finland to the U.S. is not the same as Sweden
to the U.S., but I can not really say anything about Sweden's high schools
not having been to any.
> 
> Seriously, I have not met a single person who considers the typical 
> level of US high school higher than the level in Sweden.
I never claimed that it was higher.  But I suspect there is not really much
difference in the end.

> You are also 
> one year older when you leave secondary school, so in some sense things 
> even out if you look at people of the same age.
>
I think that we start school earlier in the U.S. at age 5 typically.  And
yes it is more than nursery school, they teach the children to read and do
simple arithmetic during this first year.  What age do they start in Sweden?
When do they finish?  In the U.S. there is a total of 13 years.  How many
in Sweden?  You may find yourself in need of subtracting a year from your
total.  I cannot vouch for that since I do not know much about Sweden's
school system. 
>>> Another point is that the
>>> four  undergraduate years in college are probably much easier
>>The key word here is "probably".  The same rule applies here as it does to
>>high schools.  Some are rather dumpy, but on the other hand there are, beyond
>>any questionable doubt, very fine undergraduate universities in the U.S.  To
>>arbitrarly lable undergraduate programs in Sweden more difficult than in
>>the U.S. is rather assumptious.
> 
> You misunderstood me. I did *not* imply what you write in your last 
> sentence above. In fact, I didn't even mention any Swedish undergraduate
> program other than medicine. First read and then reply, please.
> 
You never said that you only meant it for medical programs.  But anyhow, apply
it only to the medical programs if you wish, my statement still applies. 
First think and then post, please.

I can not really say anything about Swedish education, but I think that
you had better walk in the other man's shoes for a couple miles before
stating what his walk is like.

> Oh, by the way, what are we discussing? Perhaps we should just say that 
> it costs a shitload of money to become a physician/"doctor" in USA, 
> while the nice Swedish government collects taxes (on taxes on taxes...)
> to keep them medical faculties running.
I agree for once.
 
> The latest figures for health-care spending I saw (a few years old) 
> indicated that USA spends *more* than Sweden on health-care, as % of 
> GDP. I guess this is a lot of greedy M.D.'s getting their fees back with 
> a lot of interest. If this makes the health-care bill more expensive, 
> I'm not the least reluctant to have things the Swedish way.
>
Sad but true.  Yet I think that the average American probably still takes
home more per year even after medical expenses than the average Swede. 
If not that, he at least has more buying power in the states with his salary.
But on the flip side you probably have more leisure time with your long 
vacations.
 
> Oh yes, to stir up some more controversy: I think it's wrong to call a 
> degree "doctor of..." if the person who is awarded the degree hasn't 
> done several years of original, independent research in an area which 
> (s)he receieved thorough undergraduate training.
> 
Hmmmm??  No controversy from here.  I have not thought on this long enough
to have an opinion yet.

t. Dean