From: leung@DSG.Tandem.COM (Steven Leung)
Subject: Re: HK "roots"?? << was: "I love Hong Kong, too! But why? >>
Keywords: Culture and People
Organization: Tandem Computers
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 22:10:43 GMT

pkk36438@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Polygon) writes:
|> 
|> 	The depth of my answer is limited by the original question "do we 
|> 	have roots in HK" and "do ABC have roots in HK".  Of course there 
|> 	does not exist a simple yes-no answer in general because the criteria 
|> 	are fuzzy.  How to measure the strength of "sense of attachment"? 
|> 	How to measure the degree of being influenced by HK culture?  All 
|> 	kinds of similar questions need to be answered if we want to compare
|> 	people's roots.  My goal is to give a big direction.  Maybe you
|> 	can give suggestion on details.

Well, I think I have already given my suggestion, not on details, but on
your "big direction." That is, don't look at whether one has or has not a 
root in HK (or China, US, ...), but look at what is the depth. I don't see
any problem with a person, although not born in HK, becoming emotionally
attached to HK and subsequently develop a root in HK. I think we should
welcome people, no matter where they are from, to develop a root in HK,
if they choose to. Your def. effectively shuts off such possibility, or 
at least have a tendency to reject such attempt, or do I misunderstand
your def.?

|> >|> 	You may argue that this fact just proves that ABC is not HKese. However,
|> 
|> >I think you are discussing whether an ABC can claim his/her root in HK, not
|> >whether an ABC is a HKese. To me, being an ABC and not HKese does not
|> >preclude one from claiming/discovering/cultivating his/her root in HK.
|> 
|> 	I put that statement on because I thought it was not obivious that my
|> 	definition is applicable to ABC.  My argument is that an ABC's root 
|> 	not in HK even if they have a strong sense of attachment; and my
|> 	reason is justified by the fact that they don't share "enough" culture
|> 	traits" and "cultural background" with HKese.

Let me try once more to understand the point you want to make. In attempt
to answer the question "do ABC have roots in HK," you gave a def. roughly,
root = sense of attachment + cultural history + cultural background. Then
you made this statement of "... ABC is not HKese," since it is not obvious
that your def. is applicable to ABC. Now, because of this statement, every-
thing is clear up and you can apply the def. to ABC. And since ABCs don't 
score enough on the latter two categories in your proposed def., so they
can't claim their root in HK. Do I understand your statements correctly?

|> 	Obviously you can't agree with me.

You are right. I don't agree with you.

|> 	One last comment:  Your word  "depth of root" is as vague as my word
|> 	"enough".  "Depth" is a quantitative, not qualitative, term.  I don't

Yes, it is vague. The point I tried hard to make, however, is that your def.
excludes a lot of people, while these people might be accomodated if you
look at the issue as a problem of degree of depth, rather than as a
problem of have or have not (the root).

|> 	think we have to compare more than one kind of root.  (Comparing root
|> 	in HK and root in America is meaningless.)
|> 
|> 	I am looking forward to hearing your way of measuring "depth of root"
|> 	if it is possible to be done in a nice and precise way.

Well, I'm afraid that I'll disappoint you. I made no attempt to define the
term root, although I would like to hear from some sociologists to give us
a def. I commented on your posting because you gave a def. and I saw some
problem with it. That doesn't mean that I have a def. (Checking the
answer to see whether it is a solution to a problem is, in general, many
orders of magnitude easier than finding out the solution. That is what
NP-Complete is all about, right? BTW, that is the secret of the success of
many (not all) professors. :-))

|> Polygon


Steven
------
... This all sounds complicated, but it mostly does exactly
what you expect. It's just hard for us to explain what you
expect ...
				  - From "Programming Perl"