From: pmenard@cse.unl.edu (Patrick Menard)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SRUNII: Laser sights and SG links
Date: 16 Nov 1992 09:36:00 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cse.unl.edu

kzin@terminus.gatech.edu (John Rudd) writes:

>rcashman@cs.ulowell.edu (The Jester) writes:

>>John Rudd divulges:


>>Listen carefully, Sir Inept. 


>>Nay nay, Sir Bonehead!  


>>You mistake my intent!  Throwing that little
>>statistic at Jeff was to show him that, yes, his uncles' guns were
>>inaccurate in Vietnam.  But they were inaccurate for reasons other
>>than range, which was the crux of his problem with SR2.  It is my con
>>tention that a person wielding a heavy pistol SHOULD have about a 56%
>>chance to hit his target at Medium Range, barring extenuating circum-
>>stances.  Jeff disagrees, and has some nifty, but poorly-founded, ideas 
>>on gunsights.  Welcome to the disagreement.

>>Don't lecture me, you moron.  I've done research, I've fired guns, and
>>I've been in a fight.  My roommate's been in the Army, and I've got
>>friends who fought in the Gulf.  If I haven't given any "credentials"
>>before this, its been intentional (I didn't want to get into a war of
>>one-upsmanship with bozos like yourself).  So take two steps back,
>>get off your own high horse, and figure out what the fuck we're talking
>>about before you slap your dick against the keyboard again to write
>>more of this nonsensical bullshit.

>First, I'd just like to say it's nice the way you degenerate in to name
>calling.  Pretty much confirms what I thought of your maturity level.
>While I did stoop to your level of general beligerence to Jeff, which is
>pretty immature in itself, I'm not going to stoop further.  I get the
>feeling you'll keep on with your arrogant, self-rightous attitude.

>Second, if you had been paying attention to Jeff in the first place,
>you'd know that his contention is with general difficulty of hitting
>a target (he said increase ALL base target numbers by 1, not just the
>ones at extended ranges).  Maybe you should re-evaluate your comments
>based on a better frame of reference (I talked to jeff about this outside
>of this newsgroup, so I'm fairly confident that I have his frame of
>reference down).  Maybe you'll be able to make more sense of things.
>Doesn't particularly sound like it.

hmmmm, well, whatever.

I think the rules were adjusted for game balance more than anything.  A certain
degree of realism must be sacrificed to make games fun and balanced.  If all of
you would quit bickering about who shot whom's mother in Saigon or New York,
while trying to buy a pizza and calling some bartender a (insert personal
favorite obscenity) this issue might get settled.  (here comes the lecture)
First: If someone says something, does someone else always have to take it as
a matter of personal insult?  If I say something insulting to someone, please
bring it to my attention and I might even apologize if I"m in the mood.
Second: I read this post on SHADOWRUN II and found it only remotely dealt
with that subject.  I don't object to your debate on the CIA's opinion of the
current lethality of firefights vs the vietnam experience, but don't waste
my time when I want to spend it reading SR stuff.
Third: My 2.5 cents (it had to happen)

Combat is very deadly right now and a Sam that is cromed to the max and gets
hit by a bullet fired from a street punk has about a 60% chance of dying. This
may be real, but I don't think its too fun.  I actually like the old SR in a
way because fights weren't guarenteed to whomever went first, toughness mattered
now, even a troll can be killed with two bullets.(counting dermal armor, heavy
security armor, and all sorts of other armor)  for instance, APDS ammo cuts
any ballistic armor in HALF, thus target numbers to resist are rarely below 7 or
8 granted APDS ammo is hard to come by, but not that hard.(if you're willing to
pay enough)

Oh one more request, I think combat should be a little less lethal, and maybe
adjusting the base target numbers is the way to go.  If anyone else has any
ideas, post them.  I don't need a ten-page essay on reasons to back it up,
I'll take your idea at face value.

Shadow

P.S. If this post has offended anyone, try suing my school.(God knows I
haven't been able to get any money out of them, maybe you'll be lucky)