From: jpsb@NeoSoft.com (Jim Shirreffs)
Subject: Re: Democrat == Loony Left??? (was Re: Christiani
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: usa, world
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 21:01:28 GMT


>This is an utterly emotional argument that disregards the most obvious.
>Space is not any kind of frontier.  It has been explored and what we know
>is that it is not inhabited by life, uninhabitable by humans without adding
>extraordinary cost to the proposition, and incredibly finite due to our
>technical inability to go very far.  Exploration of space requires a huge
>amount of costly technology, while exploration of the new world was possible
>using existing technology - sailing ships, canoes, backpacks, sleeping bags,
>and rifles.
>

This is mind boggling post, OK from the top:

>This is an utterly emotional argument that disregards the most obvious.

It is a very good argument that uses history as a precedent, he could have
used the vikings, another good example of a people that lost their will
to explore the unknown. If you want some more just ask, our history books 
are full of them.

>Space is not any kind of frontier

No it's not "any kind of frontier", it is the "Final Frontier" 

>It has been explored 

It has? Damn and I missed it! I'll have to dig up yesterdays newspaper because
the last time I checked there where MILLIONS and MILLIONS and MILLIONS
of galaxies out there with MILLIONS and MILLIONS of solar systems in them.

>[space is] uninhabitable by humans without adding extraordinary cost

What is an extraordinary cost? Do you know how many of *your* tax dollars
go to the space program? Is the couple of bucks you pay extraordinary?

>[space is] incredibly finite due to our technical inability to go very far
Fork over a few more bucks and many we'll get a little further. This is 
a self fulling argument if I ever heard one.

>Exploration of space requires a huge amount of costly technology

So does posting on the internet, have you any idea of the expense of 
the equipment needed to get your post to my machine? Technology is
expensive *any* technology, what needs to be address is the *eventual*
pay back. Space offers mind boggling pay backs for who ever can get
out there. I once read that there is more *pure* iron ore in one asteroid
then in all the iron mined by human kind. Think about it, a giant chunk
of iron floating in space, and all we have to do is go get it.

>That said, I repeat that unmanned space exploration makes a lot of sense,
>is much cheaper, gets a lot more bang to the buck, allows us to look at
>weather patterns, gather intelligence data, look out into space from beyond
>the atmosphere, build maps of entire planets, and so on.

At least now you are starting to make a little sense, certainly there is
a place for both maned and unmaned exploration. Robots are OK but they
can not do everything. Using them for exploration is a good idea, but if you
really need to get something done, there is no substitute for a .....
space person? is that OK.

>I also repeat that Star Trek is a fantasy.  We have no ability to travel 
>at 9x the speed of light, and all scientific evidence is that it is simply
>impossible.

What, a speed limit in the universe! Hey I don't see any cops around let's
go for it. Ok Ok so 186,200 seems to be as fast as a photon can go, what if
we travel a more direct route then a photon? Maybe we can play some games with 
time? Who knows?

: Also, there will be poor always.  I see no reason why we must subordinate our
: need to achieve human excellence or our scientific curiosity to the plight
: of the poor.  First of all, utopianism is unrealistic (curing poverty) and,
: secondly, we have a right (and a duty to our children) to make our society
: succede.

>This is incredibly pessimistic.  Poor is a relative term, and the quality of
>life for the "poor" is clearly something we can and have been continuously
>--- improving...

The best thing we can do for the "poor" and the rest of us as well is 
provide them (and us) with a growing dynamic society which will enable them 
(if they choose) to join in the exploration of space. Perhaps with a planet 
to tame, just like our ancestors provided us with a *new world* to tame. 

Tell me, should we not explore space? Should we forget about the stars?
Should we stop our search for knowledge? Are you asking us to simply
accept a role in life an earth bound mammal, destined to spent it
existence looking for it's next meal? This dot (.) is earth the rest of
all the posts ever written is space. Think about it.

jim shirreffs

i speak for myself and only myself
"common sense is what tells you the world is flat" unknown