From: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Jews and Ozir (Was Re: What is H a m a s ??)
Date: 25 Jan 1993 14:27:54 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Shaul Wallach <F66204@BARILVM.BITNET> writes:

>    Just another addition to my previous reply to Hamaza:

>In article <1j23scINNof7@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
>(Hamaza H. Salah) writes:

>>I wonder why would some jews and christians had helped the Prophet of Islam
>>to construct a new religion which critiques both jews and christians?  It
>>would be easier on them to convert him to be a jew or christian.  And why
>>did they choose an "illiterate poor orphan arabian man" like Muhammed per se
>>to be a prophet?  They would be better off choosing a rich famous jew or
>>christian or arab who can they parasite on.  Or they would be better off
>>claiming such an honor and prestige to themselves to begin with?
>>Are they self-hating jews and anti-semitics?

>     As I explained before, neither did the Jews intend to help Muhammad
>build a new religion nor did the latter intend to convert to Judaism.

Don't forget that the Prophet Muhammad did not bring the holy Quran from any
human source.  It was revealed on him from Almighty Allah.  As I told you
before that the Jews and Christians used to challenge our Prophet by asking 
him very serious question and he used to answer on the spot.  Also the holy
Quran, as I stated before, does not have any of the contradictions that 
existed in the previous books. Allah told us how the previous books were
changed:
1) " Have ye any hope that they will be true to you when a party of them used
to listen to the Word of Allah, then used to change it, after they had 
understood it, knowingly? " The cow, 75.
2) " Among them are unlettered folk who know the Scripture not except from 
hearsay. They but guess."  The cow, 78.
3) " Therefore woe be unto those who write the Scripture with their hands and
then say, " This is from Allah," that they may purchase a small gain 
therewith. Woe unto them for that their hands have written, and woe unto them
for that they earn thereby." The cow, 79.
4) " Some of those who are Jews change words from their context and say: " We
hear and disobey; hear thou as one who heareth not" and " listen to us!' 
distoring with their tongues and slandering religion..." Women, 45.
5) " ... They change words from their contex and forget a part of that 
whereof they were admonished...." The Table Spread, 13. 
There is no need to explain the above verses!


>>If you review, the history of early islam, you will see that the Prophet
>>has no assistance in saying what is in Quran.  If somebody has a question
>>to the prophet, s/he used to get the answer on the spot.  The history of
>>Quran records that so many people including jews, christians, and arab
>>idolators used to come to the prophet and ask him questions and the prophet
>>used to tell them the answer without calling for an urgent meeting to consult
>>with his christian and jewish assistants.
>>
>>Were these christian and jewish assistants so successful in putting a
>>Quran that doesn't contradict itself and contains scientific and
>>historic information that they never knew?
>>
>>Of course Mr. Goitein who is not a self-hating jew wanted to find some
>>kind of explanation on how the Prophet of Islam obtained such information
>>about judaism and christianity.  So he says jews and christians told them
>>to him.

>     However, much of what the Qur'an says about the Jews (especially
>in al-Baqara) is in response to the polemics with them in Medina. 

This is the way the Quran was revealed on our Prophet.  It did not come
as a whole from the first moment of Islam.  It used to be revealed from
Allah according to the events that took place there.  In this way our
Book (Quran) is different from the previous books which came as a whole 
and at once.

>For
>example, Ibn Hisham (p. 398) gives the names of men (apparently Jews)
>who criticised Muhammad for not believing that Uzayr was the son of God,
>and in response to whom came down al-Tawba 30 ("The Jews say that
>Uzayr is the son of God ..."). If we accept this at face value, then
				################################
>(as explained before) it follows that either these Jews were sectarians
>or intended their remark figuratively. A. Guillaume, in his edition
>of Ibn Hisham ("The Life of Muhammad"), remarks on the same page on
>another accusation that ascribed polytheism to the Jews and found it
>rather far-fetched. 

What you are mentioning about Ibn Hisham is absolutely wrong.  I don't know 
what kind of Sirrat Ibn Hisham you are reading from.  May be you are reading
the one which has Israeliat.  The al-Tawba 30 did not come for the reason
you are telling me about.  It came for the reason I have mentioned to you
when Allah has brought to life some one called Bukhustner after 100 years of
his death.  The Jews said that he is the son of God as a result of that.

>In any case, according to Ibn Hisham the Jews did
>tell Muhammad at least some of what he heard about Judaism and which
>is found in the Qur'an.

The Prophet of Islam (pbuh) never trusted any Jew.  How come you say that
some of the Jews were the source of our Prophet about Judaism.  This is 
incorrect without any doubt.

Do not forget that the Jews challenged him by asking him question that the    
Jews believe that no one knows the answers excepts the Prophets of Allah. 
Some of the Jews and Christians converted to Islam as a result of the answers
to these questions.

>    Another example is the first qibla towards Jerusalem. Yusuf Ali
>(on al-Baqara 142-147) is quite clear that this was a custom which
>originated with the Jews. Ibn Hisham also says that in Mecca,
>Muhammad placed the Ka`ba in a line between him and Syria. According
>to Ibn Hisham, the same Jews who criticised him about Uzayr also
>criticised him about the qibla, showing that he heard about the
>first qibla from the Jews. 

Again what you are quoting from Ibn Hisham book is not true at all.  
I hope you give where you find it.  A chapter or page number would be helpful. 
I would like to inform you that we believe that all the Prophets are Muslims.
We trust and believe in all of them.  Islam did not come to cancel the previous
religions.  It came to correct them and to remove any change in the Word of
Allah carried out by the Jews or Christians.  It came as a final and complete
religion for all mankinds.

>The break with this custom and adoption
>of Mecca as the new qibla, in the second year of the Hijra (against
>the background of his rising tensions with the Jews in Madina)
>symbolized the final break from the Jewish tradition and the reversion
>to the purely Arab tradition which associated Abraham with the Ka`ba
>(see also Encyclopedia of Seerah by Aflazur Rahman, vol. 1, p. 30).

Islam refuses to establish itself based on customs or traditions.  If you
read the holy Quran carefully you will see how Islam disgraded the people
who just followed the religions of their fathers as customs and traditions.
Islam do not accept the faith of the one who becomes Muslim because his father
is a Muslim.  You have to make your mind and heart and follow Islam based on
what you believe in.

>    A final example of a purely Jewish custom which has been
>retained in Islam to this day is the Sawm al-`Ashura, the
>optional fast on the 10th of Muharram (first month in the
>Muslim year) which corresponds to the Jewish fast on the
>Day of Atonement (10th of Tishri). As part of the break with
>Judaism the fast was moved to the month of Ramadan, but it
>is still considered virtuous to observe the Ashura (see the
>entry on Ashura in Encyclopedia of Islam for the relevant
>sources). I have heard of a Muslim who still observes the
>Ashura.

That is true.  The reason behind this is that Sawm al-`Ashura was the custom
of Prophet Musa.  Our Prophet said that I like to fast the same way as my
brother Musa used to do in al-`Ashura.  This shows how our religion is a 
continuation of the other religions accepted by Allah.  What's wrong with 
that?!

>     The Jewish convert to Islam, Ka`b al-Akhbar, introduced a
>large amount of Rabbinic Aggadot and Midrashim into the body of
>Islam. These are known as the Isra'iliyat but in time lost their
>respected position. Among these Aggadot are the Solomonic
>Structures (Amara Suleimaniyya) which are based on the story
>in the Talmud about the angel Ashmadai who helped Solomon
>hew the stones for the First Temple.

Once the Jews were defeated by the Muslims and by the new religion, Islam, 
they did their best to distroy Islam by other ways.  They created so many
false stories and myths and tried to add them to Islam. This happend at the
time of Sahabat of the Prophet Muhammad.  Our Prophet once saw Omar Ibn 
al-Khatab reading some chapters of the Tura, then he got angry and ask Omar
not even to look at it saying that if Musa is alive then he will have nothing
but to follow me.  Ka`b al-Ahbar converted to Islam and he was a commited
Muslim.  He narrated some of these Isra'iliyat by mistake.  He never had any
intention to harm Islam.  Some Muslim scholars are still criticizing and
blaming him for what he did.  Same to say about Wahbah Ibn Munabih.

>Shaul Wallach

I would like to tell you that the story of Ozair is not the only crime the
Jews have commited against their religions, the Prophets, and Allah.  They 
killed so many Prophets as well as so many good people who call for justice.
They have many false imaginations about Allah.  They believe that Allah is
a human-like and that Yacob defeated him breaking his leg.  They believe that
Yacob force Allah, after breaking his leg, to call him Israel, etc.
-- 
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