HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 19:43:55 GMT

I've been thinking about this thread and something I haven't seen mentioned
is that, regardless of the punitive procedures used, there are effective
ways of punishing behavior and ineffective ways of punishing behavior.  I
believe that the actual punishment used is less important than the way it is
used.

1. The child must know what behavior is expected of him and what will
happen if he does not behave accordingly.

2.  The expected behavior must be within the ability of the child.  Demanding
a one year old not to soil his diapers is unreasonable as is punishing a 
3 or 4 year old for lying.

3.  Make sure the child understands why the punishment is being inflicted.

4.  Be consistent.  Don't allow the child to get away with unacceptable
behavior one day because you're just too tired to deal with it and then
come down on the child the next.

There are probably other ingredients to effective use of punishment.  But
I would assert that a child who had no idea why Mom just took his favorite
toy away and broke it would resent Mom more than a child who broke a hard
and fast rule knowing he would be spanked and getting spanked for it.

So as we look at the anecdotal evidence of "I was spanked and I turned out
okay" and "my brother was spanked and he's a drug addict" I have to ask
what the difference is.  I would assert it is not the spanking but the
method by which it was applied.  

This does not mean that I believe spanking is the only valid method of
punishment or even a method of choice.  But if you use time-outs ineffectively
they won't work any better than using spanking ineffectively.  Both are
simply tools a parent has available.  A tool used incorrectly will not
work.   Punishment used arbitrarily will breed resentment.

So let's stop bickering about the relative merits of the different tools
and start learning how to use these tools effectively, shall we?
-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mlinda@novell.com (M'Linda Taylor)
Subject: Re: Kids names for food (wqas Cute things they say)
Organization: Novell Inc., Austin, Texas
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:51:58 GMT

In article <1dm883INNh2a@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ck270@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Andrea Von Ahnen) writes:
>
>Brilliant!  Cotton candy *does* look and feel a bit like soft ice
>cream, makes perfect sense to me!  :)
>   
>Andi  (Mom to Aaron, Alexander, and triplets due 3/3/93)
>   

And I called it "Hair Candy".  But then again I also called
marshmallows "Berschwocks" because that was what they did when
you bit into them.  (I had an entire grocery store in Phoenix
trying to find the "berschwocks" while I kept sobbing "Mommy
get berschwocks!!!" every so often someone would run up with
a package of something and ask are *these* berschwocks????"
NOOOOOOOO sniffle....  Just when everyone had just about  
given up my Mother tossed a bag of marshmallows into the 
shopping cart and I BEAMED and said "Mommy got berschwocks!!!)

I've always been a weird kid.  %>

M'Linda
************************************************
*           - Lonestar -                       *
*Internet: mlinda@novell.COM                   *
*UUCP: {ames,sun,apple,amdahl}!novell!mlinda   *
************************************************
From: guthrie@nb.rockwell.com (Karen Guthrie)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: How long until no longer sick in daycare ?
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:38:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: nb.1992Nov5.213825.11460
Organization: Rockwell International


When picking a center I suggest that you take a survey of how many kids are
on medicine that day and how many kids they have total.  If you do all of the
centers you are thinking about in one day you can get an idea about how well
they keep down the illness regardless of how they do it.

Karen
From: hechtel@meteor.wisc.edu (Leslie Hartten)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Not Limiting Sweets (was Re: Halloween Stories)
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:53:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: meteor.1992Nov9.205355.4236
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Meteorology and Space Science

In article <1992Nov9.183709.16685@alw.nih.gov> paula@helix.nih.gov (Paula Moore) writes:
> Recently though, Mellie (2yrs+) has started asking
>for cookies for breakfast.  Right now Ritz crackers are included in
>cookies - she'd eat a whole box in one sitting if I let her. 
>
>Judy and others who let the kids decide what to eat, would a request for
>a cookie for breakfast every day be honored?  Just curious since I've
>started on one response and it would be too difficult to change (and she'll
>probably get out of the phase on her own before too long, right :)
>

Well, I suppose if we ever get around to having kids this will be an
interesting question to deal with.  My *husband* has a cookie or two
after breakfast every day!!!

Leslie


-- 
Leslie M. Hartten
Dept. of Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences 
1225 West Dayton Street
Madison  WI  53706            Internet:hechtel@meteor.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: jackie8@dasher.cc.bellcore.com ()
Subject: Re: Oops
Organization: Bellcore - Piscataway, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 13:30:03 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.072231.22310@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> leeba@mcil.comm.mot.com writes:
>
>I can't imagine why people feel the need to tell their kids whether
>they were planned or not.  Anyway, wouldn't it be nicer to use the
>term "surprise" instead of accident?

I'm proud to be an accident. My mom was 37 when she had me.
26 years ago, that was quite late to be having children.
I have two older brothers -- 12 & 10 years older than me.
When I was around 12-13 or so, when I was old enough to "realize"
what an accident was, my oldest brother started calling me
Boo-Boo (as in Yogi Bear and Boo-Boo).  I never
saw my mother as flabbergasted as she was that afternoon!

Apparently she got over it. :-)  A couple of years ago she and my dad
and my then-boyfriend-now-husband and I were sitting at the dinner
table.  After I made some sort of sarcastic remark, my BH said to
my mother, "You should have stopped at *two* kids!"  My mother's
response:  "I thought I *did*."  Ha ha. Very funny. Good thing I'm
a mature adult now and can deal with these things.  :-)


Jackie
---
Jackie Brady/jackie8@cc.bellcore.com/908-699-5458 (insert usual disclaimer)     (do not reply to the address in "From:" section. Use id in .sig to reply)
Bell Communications Research / Piscataway NJ
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 19:52:51 GMT

In article <1d9s2fINNp09@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> bets@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Beth Schwindt) writes:
>I have a question for everyone here, having heard all of the arguments
>going both directions.
>
>Did anyone whose parents didn't spank ever wish they did, rather than
>the punishment they actually received?

YES!  Only it wasn't because I hated a punishment, it was because I didn't 
ever get punished.  When Mom decided to quit spanking, she didn't replace
it with anything.  My mom would draw a line, I'd step over it and all she 
ever did was draw another line.  Oh, she screamed, yelled, went ballistic, 
etc. but her behavior was so different from her concept of herself she 
conveniently forgot it a day later.

I spent my entire adolescence and into my early 20s trying to get her to
punish me.  During that time I stayed out all night taking drugs (my uncle
gave me a 20 minute lecture).  I shoplifted (I never got caught, sigh).  I
took LOTS of drugs.  I became a tramp.  I even joined a cult (where I was
finally spanked - very humiliating for a 21 YO).

When I went into psychoanalysis I finally learned discipline.  My analyst
had some very hard and fast rules and I spent an entire year trying to
break past the limits.  Her favorite phrase was "You don't have to want to.
You just have to do it."  I thank her for saving my life.  I am a completely
different person.  
>
>Many times, my father would scream and yell at me for a long time.
>Gradually, I learned to tune him out.  He would have been much more
>effective in disciplining me if he *had* spanked, instead .....
>
Yes.  I think spanking is better than nothing.  Effective discipline without
spanking is better still.  But nothing is the pits.

-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
From: janem@hpfcdc.fc.hp.com (Jane Marcus)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:19:57 GMT
Subject: Re: Washing stuffed animals
Organization: HP Fort Collins, Co.
Newsgroups: misc.kids

I got some hand-me-down stuffed animals from a relative that were
in excellent shape; I decided to wash them before handing them out to
my kids.  All of them were surface washable only, but I took the chance 
thinking that if they fell apart, I just wouldn't give them to my kids.
They all turned out great.

Another time, a favorite pillow of my daughter's got really dirty.
The instructions said surface washable only.  With great confidence,
I put the pillow into the washing machine.  But (you guessed it),
the pillow was completely ruined.  My daughter was really upset and
I ended up having to make her a similar pillow because I couldn't
find anything like it in a store.  Luckily, she accepted the pillow
that I made for her.  But the morale of the story is:  don't wash
any stuffed thing in the washing machine that you can't easily replace.

Jane Marcus
jane@apollo.hp.com
Organization: Administrative Computing & Info Services, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Date: Thu,  5 Nov 1992 09:33:24 -0500 
From: Laura McGinnis <lm3a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Corr: Pgh Area Misc Kidders

On 04-Nov-92 in Pgh. Area Misc.kidders???    
user Shirl Grant@panhed.psc.e writes:
>-Laura  m3a+@andrew.cmu.edu (CMU)

Correction to my email address; it should be:

lm3a@andrew.cmu.edu

And thanks to Shirl for this idea.

Laura

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: AMY.UHRBACH@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Amy Uhrbach")
Subject: re: cutting bangs
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:14:30 GMT

Yes, a friend gave me this suggestion for cutting bangs, and it works!  Put
tape over the bangs to that the TOP of the tape is where you want the bangs to
be.  Then simply cut at the top of the tape.  Bonus: the hair sticks to the
tape so cleanup is easy, and the line is actually straight!  Hopefully your
kid has enough hair that the tape won't stick to his/her head :-).  BTW, don't
use this for a short cut in the back (although it works for long hair.  I got
the tape stuck to his neck, it hurt to get it off (neck skin being looser and
more sensitive than the forehead).  Plus he looked like a monk when I was done
with no hair  back there :-(.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: elonich@cbnewse.cb.att.com (diane.e.pedersen)
Subject: Help with probable mild ADHD
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville IL
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 03:16:17 GMT
Keywords: coffee?

I've been vacillating for 3 years about whether my 7-year-old
son has mild ADD with hyperactivity.  Last night I went to a seminar
that makes me think he is.  It brought out a few points I hadn't
heard before:

1.  ADD kids can sit still and have long attention spans for situations
    that are:
	interesting
	intimidating
	novel
	1-on-1

2.  The ADD child is more likely in group situations to act silly,
    "push and poke", and be oblivious to the reactions (especially
    disapproving facial expressions) of the others.

3.  The ADD child can be distracted by his/her own thoughts/daydreams/
    fantasies -- and often are more "spacy" than average.

4.  The ADD child is often more over-emotional than average.

5.  The ADD child has more problems with sibling rivalry than average.

There were also the more well-known ADD symptoms presented, but these
were new to me.   Of all the symptoms presented, my son has shown
signs of all of them.  But for most of the symptoms, he's not that
bad.  For example, he's more energetic than average and sometimes
he does bug me with bouncing through teh house and touching half
the things he encounters, but it's no where near perpetual motion,
and his energy (and loudness) isn't bothersome most of the time.
And he's doing well in school so far, with no calls from teachers.
Most people I've discussed my ADD concerns with have opined that
he's "just an energetic boy who's one of the youngest in his grade"
and doubted he was ADD.

But I am concerned about his social immaturity, as his friends
are growing more sophisticated (he's in 2nd grade), and he's
not picking up that they consider some of the things he does
"not cool".

Is there a FAQ on ADHD?   I think someone is in the process of
starting one, and I would like a copy.

Anyway, I'm looking for help on what to do with a mildly ADD kid.
The seminar advocated giving medication a try, and I'll do
whatever is best for my kid.  But are there any alternatives
for borderline kids?

One thing I was wondering -- if stimulants like Ritulin and Dexedrine
are given to ADD kids, could coffee have the same affect on a
borderline kid?  Like a half-cup mixed with milk in teh morning
and at lunch?  Or cola drinks (though I'm not so sure about
the sugar in them).  Has anyone tried this?
-- 
Diane Pedersen
AT&T Bell Laboratories
Naperville, Illinois
att!ihlpe!elonich
From: scott@phylo.life.uiuc.edu (Snooky Fudge)
Subject: Re: Completely confused about bacteria and sterilization
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 04:27:00 GMT

It's not really the bacteria that are the problem. It's the fact that
they have been growing in something really yummy, and expressing their
glee by producing proteins and fats that are toxic to people.

The reason why some objects don't need to be sterilized is because
their surfaces don't have nooks for food to become lodged in and
give bacteria a home.

Hope this helps!

--
Coffee Facts from Dr. Science:
1) You can never brew coffee too strong.
2) You can never drink too much coffee.
3) Coffee does not make you nervous.  Your own inadequacies do that.
   Coffee merely increases your perception of your own inadequacies.
4) Tea is to coffee as ginger ale is to Scotch.
From: arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Angus H Rodgers)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Date: 7 Nov 92 15:51:59 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London

In <TIGGER.92Nov7003520@satyr.Sylvan.COM>
tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Grace Sylvan) writes:

(Among many sensible things)

> In the real world, there are simply consequences to actions
>- sure if you don't do your work, you might find yourself unemployeed,
>but if you hurt someone they will not want to be (play) with you
>anymore. Rarely will someone lecture them for a wrongdoing to educate
>them, they'll need to figure out the consequences for themselves. If
>they break something, they will have to handle replacing, fixing it,
>or doing without. There won't be someone lurking around the corner to
>'catch' them in 'wrongdoings', they'll just need to live with what
>happens due to their poor choices or mistakes.

This is a politically naive view of the "real world"; but I've already
had my little diatribe (or tantrum) about that, and I agree with all the
other points you make. I just don't want good ideas about parenting to
be transferred uncritically into conservative ideas about society. (The
political relevance is already there; I'm not just putting it in!)

(I'm not sure how to use this newsreader to redirect followups, but in 
the unlikely event that there are any, they should perhaps go to
talk.philosophy.misc.)
--
Angus H. Rodgers  (PhD student), | arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk  
Dept. of Computer Science, Queen | [ +44 | 0 ] 71 975 5241   
Mary & Westfield College,  Mile  | "But what is contact? No two points
End Rd., London E1 4NS, England  | are in contact." -- A.N. Whitehead.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 20:15:06 GMT

In article <25831@optima.cs.arizona.edu> bweiss@cs.arizona.edu (Beth Weiss) writes:
>In article <24093@alice.att.com>, llf@alice.att.com (alice!llf) writes:
>|> Does timeout count as a "natural consequence"?  If not, is it an acceptable
>|> "unnatural" consequence?
>
>I think it can.   For example, "Noone wants to be with people who hit,
>so if you hit, you have to be by yourself for X minutes."  
>

No, no.  A "natural" consequence is one that will happen without parental
intervention.  For example, if you don't get home in time for dinner, your
food will be cold.  Or if you don't wear boots in the snow, your feet will
get wet.

What you are referring to is a "logical" consequence.  This is a consequence
the parent derives because the natural consequence is too dangerous
(if you run in the street you'll get hit by a car).

So, the "natural" consequence of hitting another person is to get hit 
back.  The "logical" consequence of hitting another person may be a 
time-out.  It may be a period of time in which you are not allowed to play
with that person.  It could even be a spanking.

The hard part of this whole technique is that you really must take some
time and think of what a logical consequence should be.  And the other
hard part is that you must learn not to care which choice the child
makes.  If you care, then you blow the whole system.  

For example, if you choose to use natural consequences for the child who
refuses to wear boots in the snow, are you willing to deal with the ruined
shoes and potential frostbite?  

Most parents load the consequences in ways that indicate there is a right
choice and a wrong choice and then get upset when the child makes the
wrong choice.  There's a good example of a child who refused to wash out
her lunch box after school.  The child opted to take a brown paper bag,
but Mom REALLY wanted that lunch box cleaned.  So Mom did not abide by the
consequences she had set up.  We have to not set ourselves up for failure
in these instances.

-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Incongruent discipline philosophies (Was: Re: 20/20 and Spanking)
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:49:55 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California


 In article <1992Nov6.180340.8580@bcrka451.bnr.ca>, seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna Watson) writes:
> Is it "better" to believe in spanking and only use it in a rational manner
> when other methods fail, or is it "better" to _not_ believe in spanking and 
> use it in a moment of anger?
>

I believe it is best to try to remain consistent with whatever philosophy 
you hold while remaining flexible enough to recognize those rare and unique
circumstances in which "foolish inconsistency [becomes] the hobgoblin of
small minds".

Therefore, it is best to believe what you truely believe and to acknowledge
that no man-made philosophy is 100% consistent even with itself and that you
are a human being.  Perfection is for androids!

-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: hemi@bcrkd12.bnr.ca (Hemi Thaker)
Subject: Baby Monitors - Any Suggestions?
Reply-To: hemi@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, VHDL Group
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:00:44 GMT

Hi :

	I'm currently in the market for a baby monitor.  I have
seen about 3 different products (Fisher-Price, and two other
"no-name" brands).  However, without testing them, I could find
very little differences between them, cost aside.  Does anyone
out there have suggestions or advice, based on experience with
any monitors?

	Thanks in advance...

Hemi

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer : The above opinions are my own, and do not
             necessarily reflect the views of my employer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hemi Thaker     Bell-Northern Research, Ltd        Ph.: (613) 765-2863
System Level    P.O. Box 3511, Station C           Fax: (613) 763-7241
Modeling        Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1Y 4H7   Email : hemi@bnr.ca
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Air travel while pregnent
From: cma@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (christine.m.dakes)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:22:49 GMT
Organization: AT&T
Summary: 5th month


One of my books states that the "best" time for air travel would
be the 5th month.  Supposedly when you would probably feel your
best and not be uncomfortable.  But asking your doctor would be
best.  

A while back while on a business trip, I had a flight attendent who
appeared to be 8-9 months pregnant.  Obviously, no restrictions for
her flying and working.  Perhaps each airline has their own guidelines.

Christine
first-time-mom-2-b 1/19/93

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: sian@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (S. Meikle)
Subject: Re: Washing stuffed animals
Organization: UTCS Public Access
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 04:47:26 GMT

In article <Lm9TTB2w164w@glnserv.UUCP> kati@glnserv.UUCP (Lady Dragon) writes:
>stanzi@media.mit.edu (Constance "Stanzi" Royden) writes:
>
>> Does anyone have any experience with washing a "Surface washable"
>> stuffed animal in the washing machine?  Did it come out OK?
>>
>If it looks like it might survive, say a prayer and wash it. I wouldn't
>reccomend drying it in the dryer though. It might melt or something. Once
>you have it clean (by whatever method), set it up to dry somewhere. It may
>take a couple of days. Good luck.

You may want to stick Doggie in a pillow case to soften the ride a little...

Sian


-- 

sian@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca                                  Sian Meikle