HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:20:40 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.144550.26968@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> daw@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Dave Webb) writes:
>She has already told me 
>that she can't give up her parents because they've always been there for her
>and she can't hurt them after all they've done for her.  



It seems that they stopped being there for her. So, she should go ahed with
her life and do whatever she thinkls it will be better for her, which is not
necesarilly the same as what is the best for her parents.

Parents do not own their children. Children are individuals, with their own 
life to live. Parents cannot stop them from living their lives. And, parents
cannot stop their kids from being happy based on some old tradition or tale.
I am sure that the basis for all the Jewish tradition is no more than the
search for happiness. So, be it.

Good Luck,
AAP
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Date: 6 Oct 92 03:31:18 GMT
	<22534@venera.isi.edu> <1992Oct2.153547.21882@umbc3.umbc.edu>
Distribution: na
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu's message of 2 Oct 92 15:35:47 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.153547.21882@umbc3.umbc.edu> shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:
>
> In article <22534@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
>
> (re the advice the a person considering intermarriage should consider
> a trial separation ...)
>
> >What kind of silly advice is this?  If you want to tell Mr. Webb and his
> >Jewish girl friend to just split up and look for partners of their own
> >respective faiths (or lack thereof), why not have the courage to say so
> >openly?  Do you think that Mr. Webb will reject your "advice" in that
> >case, but will be too stupid to notice what you're saying if you cloak
> >it as a "temporary separation", coupled with advice from a book on
> >finding a new spouse???
>
> Actually, the advice was pretty rational, and not at all silly.  One
> partner (the Jewish woman) is clearly ambivalent, and may be forced to
> choose between her parents and Mr. Webb.  If they marry, there may well
> be some friction (over parents and religion).  Before embarking on such
> a marriage, it seems reasonable to be absolutely certain of the strength
> of ones love, and a trial separation is a good way of testing that
> strength.

I referred to the advice as "silly" because I was too polite to say
"dishonest", which perhaps is what I should have done right away.  The
person giving the advice (and I suppose you, too) appears quite clearly
-- from what he says -- not to be interested in a "trial separation" at
all, but in a breakup of the couple.  Using suggestions from a book
about finding a spouse -- a *new* spouse in this case -- was a dead
givaway... 

In that case, I think it would be more honest to come out and state
one's position openly and defend it for what it is.

Incidentally, there are many things over which "there may well be some
friction" in a marriage -- being from different races or ethnic groups,
for example.  Would you suggest a "trial separation" (including dating
as many other people as possible???) in that case as well?
--
Yigal Arens
USC/ISI
arens@isi.edu
From: Lorne Brown
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Using vacation days for the Jewish Holidays
Date: 27 Sep 92 15:33:27 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research

I have always been able to reach an agreement with my immediate manager
to trade Jewish Holidays for overtime. I usually work the extra time on
Sundays, however, I could do it on any of the other non-Jewish days off.  This
is a good arrangement for my employer as well, since I will
work the extra time when schedules are wery tight.

Generally, I take from 8-12 days off depending on the year (due to some days
coinciding with non-work days such as weekends or Canadian Thanksgiving which
is first day Sukkot this year or Victoria day here in Canada which was first
day Shavuot). Is it possible that HaShem favours Canadians over Americans? :).
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Subject: Re:  * Jesus Christ? *
Reply-To: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 14:51:11 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.122623.26063@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, friedenb@gypsum.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg) writes:
|> 2.  The messiah is supposed to bring an era of peach among all men.

And yet, just the other day, I saw someone eating a PLUM!!
-- 
Elie Rosenfeld      | "He tasks me!  He tasks me and I shall have him!
Bellcore            |  I'll chase him 'round the Moons of Nebir and 'round
Piscataway, N.J.    |  the Antares Maelstrom and 'round Perdition's Flames
(908) 699-8800      |  before I give him up!"  - Khan, "STII-The Wrath of Khan"
From: alu@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (Alan Lustiger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Y'hi Ratson at the Table
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:17:17 GMT
Organization: AT&T Engineering Research Center

In article <1992Sep30.184041.29909@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>
>We gave up gefilte fish for Rosh Hashanah because of a custom of
>eating only sweet things -- and since I will not eat gefilte fish
>without horse radish -- and horse radish is the opposite of sweet,
>we solve that by leaving out hrose radish entirely.

Ahhh, you have not had the pleasure of eating sweet gifilte fish!
(which does not require horseradish!) I'm not talking about what
Mrs Adler or Mr. Manishewitz call sweet; no, I'm talking SWEET!
Like my mother makes! There is perhaps no more appropriate Rosh
Hashana food. Ahhh, the legions of people who have tried it and
been convinced that *this* is the way to make gefilte fish!

I've got to stop this posting; talking about Mom's gefilte fish
on Tzom Gedalyah makes me a little too dizzy...
>-- 
>Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus


-- 
               		Alan Lustiger
    |_ | |             	AT&T Bell Laboratories ERC, Princeton, NJ
     /   |( 		attmail!alustiger or att!pruxk!alu or lustiger@att.com
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Religious question
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:41:59 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1992Sep29.034520.21551@javelin.sim.es.com>
JHIATT@130.187.170.178 (JOHN HIATT) writes:

>  Do Orthodox Jews still practice animal/food sacrifice to the God of
> Abraham? Why or why not?

No. As written in the Tora sacrifice are forbiden out of the Temple .

>  What do Orthodox Jews think of these Hebrew names:
>1. -Elohim
>2. -Y-H-W-H (pronounced  ......)
   It is not pronounce, and we have no idea who it should be
   pronounced. The way you sugested is an outcome of using the
   pronounciation  of another name of G od.

Both are names of G od.

>  Reffering to the Old Testament in the christian bible, how do Jews refer to
>this book?  (i.e. what name do they call the scriptures).

Since G od should never change his Testement there is no a new one.
The common name now is  TaNaCH 1st letters of the 3 parts of it
   Tora   Nevim (prophets )   Cetuvim .
>
>  Are there any differences in the writings contained in the Old Testament and
>the Jewish Scriptures?

Almost the same ,( creistians add some verses at Psalem book)
>
>  What do Orthodox Jews think of:

 (Jews not lieving within christian societies pay no attention to
christianity )
>-Jesus Christ
   a person who made a mistake. Used by others to develop christianiry.
>-christians
  people who follow christianity.
>-Saul of Tarsus (known as Paul in New Testament bible)
  ignored
>-John the Baptist (New Testament)
  ignored
*********************************************
>-Ezekiel (Old Testament).
  a prophet
>
>
>I am really curious.  John R. Hiatt
>JHIATT@SIM.ES.COM

gideon   Eretz Yisrael
From: lms@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Max Stern 310-524-6152)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: donations
Keywords: godd, bad, ugly
Date: 1 Oct 92 20:11:19 GMT
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not neccessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.

In article <1992Sep30.132932.24940@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>
>Someone recently posted a request for information on charities that are
>worth our contributions.  This is a partial list of the organizations
>that I feel are at least worth the doantion to cover their mailing
>costs to me.  I've added a few comments.  At the end of the list I've
>included some I question.  If any in the first part of the list are
>problematic, I'd like to hear about them.
>
>Charities I trust:
>
>[list and comments and questions deleted]

My bride and I agreed, while planning our recent wedding, to donate to
Mazon according to their plan for sharing major simchas.  I am
distressed, however, that I haven't yet come across Mazon's address.
Could someone provide it by posting to this thread and/or by email?

Thanks, and g'mar chatimah tovah!
-- 

 |\/|  /_\  \/
 |  | /   \ /\                      Max.Stern@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Reply-To: pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu
Organization: SUNYA School of Public Health, Albany, NY
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 15:15:23 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.143334.16141@cs.brown.edu>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu writes:
>#
>#  I believe that the same is true about Israel.  I can live there
>#for ages and it won't make me a Jew.
>
>No, but it will make you an Israeli.
>
>-Danny Keren.
>
>

  I agree, that's quite obvious.  Your original question was whether
Jews living in Poland were ethnic Poles.  Without starting the discussion
what "ethnicity" really means I would simply say that "ethnic Pole"
has for me more or less the same meaning as Jew.

  In Israel the distinction is clear, because Isreali means citizen of
Israel, and Jew is "ethnic" name (sorry for using word ethnic, but it
was your original poster which introduced it).  At the same time
in pre-WWII Poland, which was multi-national country term "Pole" meant
either an "ethnic Pole" or Polish citizen, which could be of any nationality,
Jewish, Ukrainian, German and so on.

  Even after WWII in some documents this distinction was still preserved
and there were (maybe still are) two separate questions: first regarding
citizienship, the second nationality.  Very recently there was a prolonged
discussion on Polish discussion list what "Polish nationality" really
means and unfortunately no conclusions were reached.  Since being Polish
is not equivalent to being for example Catholic no clear definition
can be given. The best answer which comes to my mind is that anybody
participating and interested in Polish culture and history and regarding
himself Pole should be regarded Polish.  Nevertheless we should keep
in mind that many people living in multi-national countries (as pre-WWII
Poland) would regard themselves to be of Polish and lets say Ukrainian
nationality at the same time since they participated in both cultures
at the same time and spoke both languages.

  I hope that this explanation will be of some help to you.

                                         Pawel Penczek
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:35:47 GMT

In article <22534@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:

(re the advice the a person considering intermarriage should consider
a trial separation ...)
  
>
>What kind of silly advice is this?  If you want to tell Mr. Webb and his
>Jewish girl friend to just split up and look for partners of their own
>respective faiths (or lack thereof), why not have the courage to say so
>openly?  Do you think that Mr. Webb will reject your "advice" in that
>case, but will be too stupid to notice what you're saying if you cloak
>it as a "temporary separation", coupled with advice from a book on
>finding a new spouse???

Actually, the advice was pretty rational, and not at all silly.  One
partner (the Jewish woman) is clearly ambivalent, and may be forced to
choose between her parents and Mr. Webb.  If they marry, there may well
be some friction (over parents and religion).  Before embarking on such
a marriage, it seems reasonable to be absolutely certain of the strength
of ones love, and a trial separation is a good way of testing that
strength.

>Boy, you must have a low opinion of people...

Don't you?




-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Date: 6 Oct 92 12:41:09
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com's message of Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:06:52 GMT

In article <9210051855.AA03534@ptms_dev.sbi.com> gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler) writes:

   rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:
   >stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
   >>The obligation to God is clear; Jews do NOT marry non-Jews, period.

   >Obligations to god are a matter of one's personal taste.

   This is a ridiculous statement.  Obligations that are a matter of
   personal taste are not obligations.  Now if you're saying that we
   have no obligations to G-d, that's a different discussion.

Stan made the original assertion.  Given that there are people who
believe in god who don't agree with it, it's evidently a matter of
personal taste.

BTW, the statement isn't quite as ridiculous as it sounds at first
blush.  If I take out a loan, I've assumed an obligation, but the
decision about whether to take out the loan in the first place is a
matter of personal taste.

   >If the parents
   >don't like it, tough on them; personal decisions about one's life are
   >for that person to make, and it's easiest for all concerned if the
   >parents just accept it.  If not, it's their problem.

   Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  It depends what's at stake, and how
   much the concerned "outsiders" really understand.  The shame is
   when the parents wait until it's too late to express their views,
   and then have not provided a foundation to build upon.  What can
   one expect after neglecting to nurture a Jewish life in a child,
   raising him/her in a fully assimilated world, then asking him/her
   to reject that very culture and her peers within it?

Well, from my perspective one's parents have absolutely NO business in
this decision, period.  No exceptions (that I can think of offhand, at
least).  But that's my personal world view, that marriage is a decision
to be made solely by the two people involved, with no one else having a
"right" to input on that decision.

   I assume here that the vast majority of such cases occur in
   non-observant homes, though I have no handy statistics.

Dunno.  I haven't intermarried, but then again I haven't married.  My
parents are moderately observant.

   >As for the mourning ritual:  any parent who'd go that far to lay a guilt
   >trip on someone's acting rather wickedly him/herself.

   Pretty quick to rush to judgment over the actions of the parents, eh?

About as quick as everyone else's rush to defend said actions.
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write league@prep.ai.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Why not get Chuck Mangione as ba'al tokayah?
Organization: University of Toronto -- Office of the Provost
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 12:44:08 GMT

In article <9210011348.AA11861@helix.nih.gov> <norm@helix.nih.gov> writes:

>I know of a Reform place in Balto, Md, that uses trumpets for shofar.  I
>would guess that it would not make a difference whether or not it was
>Shabbos.

Wow.  

What an astonishing display 
				of a complete lack 
							of respect for history.

What were they thinking?

Aryk Nusbacher
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:17204 soc.culture.polish:3022
From: kkniaz@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Krzysztof W. Kniaz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: On relativity of sources
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:43:45 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Oct6.132713.11047@walter.cray.com> aleks@cray.com (Aleksander Mazur) writes:
>Also interesting part of entire story is a letter
>from Palestinian Jews to Polish Jews warning them not to join UB.
>Unfortunately many, I would say too many did not follow that
>good advice.
>
>A. Mazur

Could you post a reference for that?

--

Krzysztof Kniaz, University of Pennsylvania |Due to circumstances beyond
Lab for Research on the Structure of Matter |your control, you're master of 
Philadelphia, PA, 19104, USA                |your fate and captain of your soul
From: ad980@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul S. Wolf)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Using vacation days for the Jewish Holidays
Date: 30 Sep 1992 16:02:54 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


One of the Major Mitzvot concerning Rosh Hashana is to Hear the
sound of the Shofar.  In order to assure that the Shofar can be
sounded each year, even when the First day of Tishri falls on Shabbat,
It was ordained that Rosh Hashana be celebrated for TWO days.

What do Reform Jews do when 1 Tishri is on Shabbat, and the sounding
of the Shofar is not permitted?

Shana Tova.

Paul Wolf
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Date: 3 Oct 92 14:06:05
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
	<1992Oct2.173557.28173@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
	<1992Oct2.211901.4226@guinness.idbsu.edu>
	<1992Oct3.154349.24614@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com's message of Sat, 3 Oct 1992 15:43:49 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.154349.24614@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:

   >If there is an obligation here which overrides one's own wishes, it is
   >to God.  If the Jewish faith and traditions are an enterprise founded
   >on obligations among people, then it must be permissible to opt out of
   >it, in whole or in part.

   The obligation to God is clear; Jews do NOT marry non-Jews, period.
   If that isn't enough, then a person shouldn't be so selfish as to
   ignore the devastating effect such a marriage will have on her
   parents.  In the extreme case, the parents can declare the child dead
   and go through the appropriate mourning rituals; is any child so
   wicked as to put his or parents through that?

Obligations to god are a matter of one's personal taste.  If the parents
don't like it, tough on them; personal decisions about one's life are
for that person to make, and it's easiest for all concerned if the
parents just accept it.  If not, it's their problem.

As for the mourning ritual:  any parent who'd go that far to lay a guilt
trip on someone's acting rather wickedly him/herself.
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write league@prep.ai.mit.edu
From: U13054@uicvm.uic.edu (Howard Wachtel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Buchanan (Was: Re: Bill Clinton's Jewish Advisors
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:45:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: uicvm.92280.154533U13054
 <1992Sep30.224525.21944@midway.uchicago.edu>
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

In article <1992Sep30.224525.21944@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@quads.uchicago.edu
(Citecheck Hell) says:
>
>In article <1992Sep30.210327.12317@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>                       U
>altman@RIGEL.LCS.MIT.ED
>(Arthur Altman) writes:
>>My mother-in-law is visiting us for the Holidays from Austin, TX.  She
{...}
>>So, as a reality check: Has anyone else out there on the net heard about
>>this being an issue in their part of the country?  Does anyone think
>>that there is enough latent anti-semitism out there that this would
>>actually matter to the election?
>
>Anyone who is anti-Semitic enough to vote against Clinton because he
>has Jewish advisors wasn't going to vote for him anyway because of his
>other stances wrt blacks and gays.  I wouldn't worry.

   Not necessarily true--many anti-Semites have no ill feelings
toward African-Americans (as I'm sure most readers are aware.)

>
>And one only has to look at the support Pat Buchanan engendered to see
>the degree to which bigotry can succeed.

   Succeed in doing what?  Getting to speak at the convention?  Most
votes for Buchanan were protest votes by those dissatisfied with Bush,
not those who agree with Buchanan's bigotry.  You or I could have
gotten as much support as Buchanan in the Republican primary (with
a like amount of media coverage and/or funds).  George Will (for
example) certainly would have done better.
________________________________________________________________
Howard K. Wachtel              University of Illinois at Chicago
U13054@UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU        Phone (312) 975-7970
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Cross-dressing
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:48:53 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Oct2.173114.27932@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> kolassa@bio1.bst.rochester.edu (John Kolassa) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.164717.10414@njitgw.njit.edu>, dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>>
>> I believe that the definitions of "men's" and "women's" clothing is
>> culture and location-specific.  While a kilt may be acceptable men's
>> attire in Scottland (or at rennaisance faires), it certainly is not so
>> on the streets of New York.
>
>Oh, really?

OK, maybe NYC is a bad example.  You could probably walk around
completely naked in NYC without too many people even noticing!

I assume you did get my point, though, right?
-- 
David Charlap         |"there aren't 50,000 things for which it's worth writing
dic5340@hertz.njit.edu| software; and the computer industry doesn't have enough
----------------------+ programmers to create that much good software.
Therefore, most of it must be worthless" -- Boris Beizer "The Frozen Keyboard"