HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hsmith@imagine.convex.com (Henry Smith)
Subject: Re: where do the months come
Originator: hsmith@imagine.convex.com
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:14:38 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <92324.221237IO20816@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, IO20816@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Kevin Foss) writes:
>In article <1992Nov19.3064.1543@dosgate>, david.meadows@canrem.com (david
>meadows) says:
>>
>>JK4In article <92319.173218IO20816#MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO20816@MAINE.MAINE.EDU
>>(Kevin Foss) writes:
>>
>>JK4   And May supposedely comes from the the Latin maior, meaning greater,
>>  4   and the month was dedicated to Jupiter, (deus maius - greater god).
>>
>>JK4Sounds odd, both linguistically and otherwise. "Maius" is just the
>>  4irregular nominative form of the word; the more regular forms have
>>  4the stem maiore-. And Jupiter was not called "greater god" but
>>  4"greatest god", i.e. superlative attributes like maximus, optimus,
>>  4etc. were used. The usual explanation is that May (Maius) was the
>>  4month dedicated to the goddess Maia. (The Latin month names are
>>  4actually adjectives, with the implicit noun being mens 'month'.
>>  4So May is "Maius (mens)" in Latin, and the -us ending is the normal
>>  4masculine ending required by the gender of the word "mens".)
>>
>>This one is definitely correct ... the month, according to ancient
>>authors, was named for the daughter of Vulcan, Maia by name and has
>>nothing to do with Jupiter.
>
>Well the moral of this story, is that Shipley's "Dictionary of Word Origins"
>isn't too reliable (or in this case at least).   Thanks to both of you for
>the corrections.
>
>-Kevin
>--
>  Kevin A. Foss        EMail:1)  io20816@maine.maine.edu
>                             2)  kevin_foss@macact.umeres.maine.edu
>--

According to "Bulfinch's Mythology," Maia is one of the daughters
of Atlas and Pleiope, eldest and most beautiful of the Pleiades.

Edith Hamilton's "Mythology" goes further to identify her as
the "wife" of Vulcan. (Bona Dea)
-- 
Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not necessarily
represent those opinions of this or any other organization.  The facts,
however, simply are and do not "belong" to anyone.

Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: loki@netcom.com (James E Myers)
Subject: Re: Nordic Gods
Keywords: description
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 04:55:12 GMT

004107w@ace.acadiau.ca (CHRISTOPHER KEITH WILDBORE) writes:

>Hi, 
>  A few friends and I need some deep descriptions of the Nordic Gods, 
>both the physical attributes and there supposed rulerships, where worship-
>ped, and any other info. you can rake your brains and books for.
>                            Sly-Van Cyr

Hearing that you wished to learn of these mystic secrets, I have caused them
to be cunningly inscribed, in clever runes, upon sheets of parchment, and 
these sheets then bound together, and into secret places I have placed them, 
these places, called _libraries_, are scattered about the globe.  Seek them
out, and all the secrets of the ancients may be yours.

--Loki

         "Immer ist Undank Loki's Lohn"
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
Subject: Re: Questions...
From: t00022@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:38:49 -0600
Reply-To: t00022@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

In times of famine, the pelican will tear strips of flesh off her own breast
to feed her young.  I don't remember if this is all a bunch of baloney or
if pelicans actually do this.

                                             Fledermaus, the sometimes
                                                nature expert
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: 004107w@ace.acadiau.ca (CHRISTOPHER KEITH WILDBORE)
Subject: Nordic Gods
Keywords: description
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:25:46 GMT

Hi, 
  A few friends and I need some deep descriptions of the Nordic Gods, 
both the physical attributes and there supposed rulerships, where worship-
ped, and any other info. you can rake your brains and books for.
                            Sly-Van Cyr
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: "david meadows" <david.meadows@canrem.com>
Subject: where do the months come
Reply-To: "david meadows" <david.meadows@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: alt
Date: 19 Nov 92 09:29:26 EST

JKIn article <92319.173218IO20816#MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO20816@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Kevin Foss) writes:

JK   April has two possible origins, possibly after Aphrodite (Greek name
     of Venus),

JKThis hypothesis sounds very strange.

JK   or (and I like this one better) April being the month where flowers came
     out, e.g. open,  the name comes from the Latin, aperio, to open.

JKSounds better, but I think a more common interpretation is that April
  "opened" the year. It was originally the first month of the year,
  which fact is still reflected by month names like September
  (from Latin septem 'seven').

Hardly more common ... March was the first month of the Roman year
(remember the Romans counted inclusively ... that's why September is
the seventh month and October is the eighth). Numerous ancient
authorities did think that April did come from `aperio', to open.

JK   And May supposedely comes from the the Latin maior, meaning greater,
     and the month was dedicated to Jupiter, (deus maius - greater god).

JKSounds odd, both linguistically and otherwise. "Maius" is just the
  irregular nominative form of the word; the more regular forms have
  the stem maiore-. And Jupiter was not called "greater god" but
  "greatest god", i.e. superlative attributes like maximus, optimus,
  etc. were used. The usual explanation is that May (Maius) was the
  month dedicated to the goddess Maia. (The Latin month names are
  actually adjectives, with the implicit noun being mens 'month'.
  So May is "Maius (mens)" in Latin, and the -us ending is the normal
  masculine ending required by the gender of the word "mens".)

This one is definitely correct ... the month, according to ancient
authors, was named for the daughter of Vulcan, Maia by name and has
nothing to do with Jupiter.

David Meadows
---
  1st 1.01 #813  You're only young once.  You're immature forever.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 22:39:41 EST
From: John A. Johnson <J5J@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
Subject: Re: FAQ?

In article <1992Nov21.045719.4318@hubcap.clemson.edu>, epohl@hubcap.clemson.edu
(Erik Alan Pohl) says:
>
>Could someone either send me the FAQ for this group or post the site
>where I might find it?

There is no FAQ file for this group, but there is a charter I wrote
when I created it.  Here it is:

                     Charter for alt.mythology

"The purpose of this group is to promote insights into, and
understanding of, human nature through the discussion of mythology,
where mythology is defined as the metaphorical expression of the
human psyche through symbols and images.  While focusing primarily
on myths expressed as oral or written stories, the group also
welcomes material on dreams and on semiotics generally, as these
areas may further our understanding of myths.  The group welcomes
articles written from any perspective, including, but not limited
to, the anthropological, philological, etiological, ethnological,
psychological, and personal viewpoints.  The group encourages
contributions from any frame of thought, including, but not limited
to, ritualism, diffusionism, structuralism, parallelism,
psychoanalysis, and culturalism."

As you see, the group is open to a multitude of approaches to
mythology.  I would like to make one thing clear, though: This
group is intended to be a forum for intellectual discussions
of mythology, and not for religious proselytizing or flame-wars.

Mythically yours,
John A. Johnson (j5j@psuvm.psu.edu)
Penn State is not responsible for my behavior.
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: bes@ddsw1.mcs.com (Bes)
Subject: Re: Questions ...
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:43:10 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago IL
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

}}firestar@leland.Stanford.EDU (Lipton Ann Meredith) writes:
: 
: 1) What exactly is the myth of the phoenix? 


The Phoenix, Fenix or Fire-Bird, is believed to be of ancient Indian or
Persian origin.
 
It was called the Bennu in ancient Egyptian mythology and lived in the
deserts of Arabia, from where it was believed to fly every five hundred
years to the holy city of Heliopolis in Egypt, to build in the Temple of the
Sun a nest of myrrh, cassia and frankincense. This nest was ignited by Ra,
the sun God, and consumed by fire. The cremated phonix rose rejuvinated from
its own ashes, symbolizing the undying spiritual instinct of man and the
promise of reincarnation after death. The phoenix was also emblematic of
life and immortality in ancient Greece and Rome. Christians borrowed it from
the Ancients as the emblem of the spirit's victory over death, the symbol of
the resurrection of the soul (Job 29:18). 

In Far Eastern belief, the phoenix was one of the Four Mythical Animals. In
Chinese Mythology it was the Feng-Huang (Feng- the male phoenix, and Huang-
the female), king of the feathered race, and symbol of peace and prosperity.

In Chinese poetry it was the silver-breasted love-pheasant, emblem of the
Empress of China, and harbinger of happiness, typifying friendship and
affection.

In the mythology of Japan, the phoenix was the sacred bird Ho-Oo (Ho-the
male phoenix, and Oo- the female), the emblem of wise and good government
and a symbol of good fortune.

In short, throughout the world, the phoenix has become an emblem of good
luck, prosperity and immortality.

The possible confusion of the phoenix with the sphinx in the Oedipus story
may be on account of that Greek sphinxes were portrayed with wings having a
human female head and breasts.

The ballet the "Firebird" by stavinski is based on a Persian tale of the
phoenix. It is possible that the "Golden Cockrel" by Rimsy-Korsakov may have
influence of a phoenix as well though that opera though it is said to be
based on a poem by Pushkin may have been influenced by Washington's tales of
the Alhambra where in a tale is almost the same. Korsakov replaced the
Bronze warrior of Washington's story into a golden cockrel much in the
manner of Stravinski's Firebird. But it is dubious that Korsakov meant the
phonix anyway.

Bes

 Is the phoenix the same bird that
: tears out its feathers in order to feed its blood/flesh to its children?  If
: not, which bird is that?
: 
: 2) What is the story of Lucifer being cast out of heaven?  All I know is that
: he was.  Does anyone know anything mroe about it?
: 
: Thanks in advance,
: 
: Firestar
: -- 
: I don't bite, you know.    | Find me and turn thy | It is better to have loved 
: Unless it's called for.    | back on heaven.      | and lost than to have your
: -- Audrey Hepburn, Charade | -- R. W. Emerson     | finger caught in a blender.
: *******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: scarrobi@shearson.com (Steve Carrobis)
Subject: Re: Questions ...
Reply-To: scarrobi@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:04:08 GMT

In article 6226@leland.Stanford.EDU, firestar@leland.Stanford.EDU (Lipton Ann Meredith) writes:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a couple of mythology questions.  If anyone knows the answers, please
> email me at firestar@leland.stanford.edu.
> 
> 1) What exactly is the myth of the phoenix?  Is the phoenix the same bird that
> tears out its feathers in order to feed its blood/flesh to its children?  If
> not, which bird is that?
>

the phoenix is a firebird which rises from its own ashes.

 
> 2) What is the story of Lucifer being cast out of heaven?  All I know is that
> he was.  Does anyone know anything mroe about it?
> 

he was cast down cause he was impertenant enough to think he was equal to god.

> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Firestar
> -- 
> I don't bite, you know.    | Find me and turn thy | It is better to have loved 
> Unless it's called for.    | back on heaven.      | and lost than to have your
> -- Audrey Hepburn, Charade | -- R. W. Emerson     | finger caught in a blender.
> *******************************************************************************



---
Steve C. 

 ==> A wise man once told me - There ARE NO Wise Men !
                             - Just fools who think they are.
---------------------------------------------------------------		
 I understand you need someone to do work.
 I don't do work, but, I know this guy who does.
    -Vladimir Taltos
---------------------------------------------------------------

   	


Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: scarrobi@shearson.com (Steve Carrobis)
Subject: Re: Questions ...
Reply-To: scarrobi@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:30:25 GMT

In article 1C8@ddsw1.mcs.com, eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun) writes:
> >>firestar@leland.Stanford.EDU (Lipton Ann Meredith) writes:
> : 
> : 1) What exactly is the myth of the phoenix?<<
> 
> 
> The most popular is found in Ancient Greek myth in the story of Oedipus Rex.
> 
> There the Phoenix asks a riddle:
> "What is it, that has four legs in the morning, two at noon and three in the
> evening; and it is weakest when it has most legs?"
> 
> For those that did not answer it, she devoured them or destroyed them; until
> Oedipus comes along and answers the riddle. The Phoenix, sometimes called
> sphinx, then plunges headlong off the cliff and kills itself leaving Oedipus
> to become king.
> 
> Thye Phoenix has another tradition that says:
> 
> The phoenix is a wonderous bird that spends its life building its nest. Only
> upon its completion to set it afire, and therefore consume itself in the
> flames.
> But out of its ashes, it will be observed te pheonix rises once again,
> better, and more beautiful than it was before. Only to once more rebuild its
> nest destined to go through the confliguration once more.
> 
> There are many more stories of the phoenix, in Greece, Egypt  etc. but most
> of all in China where the phoenix was considered the symbol of the Empress
> in balance to the dragon which symbolized the Emperor.
> 
> 
> >>: 
> >>: 2) What is the story of Lucifer being cast out of heaven?<<
> 
> 
> The popularity of this episode is made famous by Milton's work "Paradise
> Lost" in which he enumarates thye great conflict between light and darkness.
> 
> Unfortunately this is not an original theological premise of neither the
> Jews or Christians as it is part of the Ancient Persian Religion.
> 
> In ancient Persian myth there are two forces. One of darkness (Arihman) and
> one of light (Ahura Mazda). These get into conflict and are ever in conflict
> with each others supremacy. It is too long to get into here.
> I suggest you read on Mithraism, Zoroaster etc. to get complete details. It
> is quite beautiful. 
> 
> Observe that not only did Christendom borrow this myth but also the
> vestments of the Persian clergy which is not unsimilar to what today
> cardinals sport as their outfits.
> 
> Eshin-Fun
> 


sorry Eshin but phoenix is a far cry from the sphynx. 
the second part is right but as for the riddle .. tell me the book u read it in. 

---
Steve C. 

 ==> A wise man once told me - There ARE NO Wise Men !
                             - Just fools who think they are.
---------------------------------------------------------------		
 I understand you need someone to do work.
 I don't do work, but, I know this guy who does.
    -Vladimir Taltos
---------------------------------------------------------------

   	


Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: "david meadows" <david.meadows@canrem.com>
Subject: involuntary cannibalism
Reply-To: "david meadows" <david.meadows@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: alt
Date: 21 Nov 92 12:55:31 EST

Ben Cushman writes:

BC>        I am working on a thesis, and I need a good case of someone
  >unkowingingly eating someone else to illustrate a point.  Can anyone think
  >of a good example from mythology-- Greek prefered.
  >        I think that Herodotus mentions some such case, but I haven't been
  >able to find it.

This is a piece of cake: The Median king Astyages had
Harpagus' sons chopped up and made into a stew which was fed to the
unknowing Harpagus. Harpagus was being punished for not having killed
the future powerful guy Cyrus. The whole is in the first book of
Herodotus (the eating part is pp. 90-91 of the Penguin version; the
tale of Cyrus' miraculous upbringing comes a few pages before that).
This is a topos of ancient literature (as you will likely find from
other replies) and if you find a commentary on Herodotus, it will
likely point you to all the examples you could ever want


David Meadows
---
  1st 1.01 #813  Cogitationis poenam nemo patitur -- Ulpian
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: epohl@hubcap.clemson.edu (Erik Alan Pohl)
Subject: FAQ?
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 04:57:19 GMT


Could someone either send me the FAQ for this group or post the site
where I might find it?

Thanks mucho!
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's still hard for me to have a clear mind thinking on it.
 But it's the truth even if it didn't happen."(One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest)
---Erik Pohl at epohl@hubcap.clemson.edu--------------------------------------- 
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun)
Subject: Re: Questions ...
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:17:54 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago IL
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

>>firestar@leland.Stanford.EDU (Lipton Ann Meredith) writes:
: 
: 1) What exactly is the myth of the phoenix?<<


The most popular is found in Ancient Greek myth in the story of Oedipus Rex.

There the Phoenix asks a riddle:
"What is it, that has four legs in the morning, two at noon and three in the
evening; and it is weakest when it has most legs?"

For those that did not answer it, she devoured them or destroyed them; until
Oedipus comes along and answers the riddle. The Phoenix, sometimes called
sphinx, then plunges headlong off the cliff and kills itself leaving Oedipus
to become king.

Thye Phoenix has another tradition that says:

The phoenix is a wonderous bird that spends its life building its nest. Only
upon its completion to set it afire, and therefore consume itself in the
flames.
But out of its ashes, it will be observed te pheonix rises once again,
better, and more beautiful than it was before. Only to once more rebuild its
nest destined to go through the confliguration once more.

There are many more stories of the phoenix, in Greece, Egypt  etc. but most
of all in China where the phoenix was considered the symbol of the Empress
in balance to the dragon which symbolized the Emperor.


>>: 
>>: 2) What is the story of Lucifer being cast out of heaven?<<


The popularity of this episode is made famous by Milton's work "Paradise
Lost" in which he enumarates thye great conflict between light and darkness.

Unfortunately this is not an original theological premise of neither the
Jews or Christians as it is part of the Ancient Persian Religion.

In ancient Persian myth there are two forces. One of darkness (Arihman) and
one of light (Ahura Mazda). These get into conflict and are ever in conflict
with each others supremacy. It is too long to get into here.
I suggest you read on Mithraism, Zoroaster etc. to get complete details. It
is quite beautiful. 

Observe that not only did Christendom borrow this myth but also the
vestments of the Persian clergy which is not unsimilar to what today
cardinals sport as their outfits.

Eshin-Fun

Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: lmollett@lunatix.uucp (Laura Mollett)
Subject: Re: Questions ...
Organization: Lexington Public Access Unix. -KY- (606) 253-1481 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:57:24 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.083324.6226@leland.Stanford.EDU> firestar@leland.Stanford.EDU (Lipton Ann Meredith) writes:
>
>
>
>I have a couple of mythology questions.  If anyone knows the answers, please
>email me at firestar@leland.stanford.edu.
>
>1) What exactly is the myth of the phoenix?  Is the phoenix the same bird that
>tears out its feathers in order to feed its blood/flesh to its children?  If
>not, which bird is that?

I believe you're thinking of the Pelican.  The pelican tears out its breast
to feed its children (in some legends, resurrecting them).  This bird is
often associated with Christ who gave His children life with His own blood.
In the middle ages, they believed the pelican actually fed its children this
way, so you can find more information from medieval bestiaries.  As it is
also a symbol for the crucifixion commonly found in medieval painting, you
can also find more in a dictionary of symbols or books on iconography (i.e.
symbols in artwork).
	
I'm sure someone else can answer your other questions much better than I
can.  Hope that helps,

			Laura Mollett
>

Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: cpshelle@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca (cameron shelley)
Subject: Re: Questions...
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 20:13:50 GMT

t00022@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU writes:
> In times of famine, the pelican will tear strips of flesh off her own breast
> to feed her young.  I don't remember if this is all a bunch of baloney or
> if pelicans actually do this.

There was an interesting bit of heraldry I saw once in Britian on the
subject of beavers.  One coat of arms depicted a beaver biting off its
testicles.  Apparently, someone had seen a beaver using its musk
glands to oil its fur and came to the conclusion that beavers bite off
their testicles in order to shake off other animals that pursue
beavers to obtain these.  I would say this tells us less about beavers
than their observers at the time...

</dev/cam
--
      Cameron Shelley        |"In the beginning, there was nothing.  Then
cpshelle@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca | God said `Let there be light', and there
    Davis Centre Rm 3147     | was still nothing, but youse could see it."
 Phone (519) 885-1211 x3499  | --Dave Thomas, SCTV:_Sunrise Semester_
Newsgroups: alt.mythology
From: scarrobi@shearson.com (Steve Carrobis)
Subject: Re: Nordic Gods
Reply-To: scarrobi@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:00:02 GMT

In article 722543146@ace.acadiau.ca, 004107w@ace.acadiau.ca (CHRISTOPHER KEITH WILDBORE) writes:
> Hi, 
>   A few friends and I need some deep descriptions of the Nordic Gods, 
> both the physical attributes and there supposed rulerships, where worship-
> ped, and any other info. you can rake your brains and books for.
>                             Sly-Van Cyr

with all due respect do your own homework. (hehehe)
there are some really nice books out there. 

---
Steve C. 

 ==> A wise man once told me - There ARE NO Wise Men !
                             - Just fools who think they are.
---------------------------------------------------------------		
 I understand you need someone to do work.
 I don't do work, but, I know this guy who does.
    -Vladimir Taltos
---------------------------------------------------------------

   	


Newsgroups: alt.mythology