From: byers@cl2.cl.uh.edu (Unbeliever)
Subject: Re: Unbeliever fades back in...
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Reply-To: byers@cl.uh.edu
Organization: The Land
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 20:13:00 GMT

Unbeliever stirs when he hears the following...

In article <122420136@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom) writes...
>In alt.callahans, byers@cl2.cl.uh.edu (Unbeliever) writes:
>> 
>> "Many people do not see this, or recognize the kind of heroism that Covenant 
>> represents.  I >DO< idolize Covenant, in a way.  This does not mean I agree
>> with all of his beliefs (especially at the beginning of the series), but I do
>> respect his struggle (of which the rape was only one small aspect), and the
>> solution he finally finds."
> 
>It is difficult to see this fictional character as a hero.
> 
>When he first falls into his delusion, he engages in all sorts
>of irresponsible behavior, because he believes it is a delusion
>that will cost him his life.
> 
>Then, after everything within the context of the delusion is
>destroyed due to his inaction, he decides that one needs
>to be true to one's delusions after all, a conclusion which
>is, at best, deranged.

"Actually," Unbeliever says, from his spot near the counter [had anyone noticed
that Unbe had finally gotten tired of constantly fading in and out, and
STAYED IN THE BAR this time?], "I think his conclusion is more like,
it doesn't MATTER if this is a delusion or not.  He realizes the fallacy of
'situational ethics', and decides to 'be true' to himself and others,
REGARDLESS of the reality of the situation.  He 'found the still point, in the
crux of the paradox', as it were.  He decides NOT to decide about the reality
of The Land, because it doesn't matter.  Regardless of the reality of the
situation he finds himself in, HIS ACTIONS ARE STILL HIS OWN."



>I like the covenant books, and I actually like the character of
>covenant, but it is rather difficult to see him as anything other
>than irredeemably insane, and the heroic course would have been
>to refuse to EVER accept the reality of the delusion.  A slighly
>less heroic course may have been to accept responsibility before
>his action led to all sorts of destruction. 

"I don't think he ever DID accept the reality of the delusion.  He simply
decided that reality is a shaky concept.  What is reality?  If you experience
something, it is REAL, at least, to YOU.  And he reacted accordingly."



>The basic message that comes out is, "be true to your delusions." 
>This is, of course, a fairly dangerous moral.

"This statement made me think over my position, long and hard.  Dangerous?
Well...... yes.  After all, the delusions COULD encourage him to believe he is
healthy, and to forget about his VSE's.  But I think the alternative of
refusing to accept Covenant's 'delusions' (and I'm not prepared to say that The
Land >IS< a delusion, from the standpoint of the books), is far MORE dangerous. 
It was when he was convinced that The Land was a dream, that he broke down and
committed rape. And while Lena may have only been imaginary, WHAT HE DID (in
his mind) WAS REAL.  By denying The Land, he would be denying all resposibility
for his actions while there.  By accepting The Land, he would go forever
insane. This is why he took the middle road.  He did neither... and both.  He
treated The Land like Shroedinger's Cat.  He put it in a box, and left it in an
indeterminate state.  He treated the people and their cause as though they were
real, while all the while refusing to give up and actually believe in them."



>The book is attempting to affirm life and the love of existence and
>the need for responsibility, but it does it in an extremely strange
>way that sends some awfully mixed messages.

"I can see why others think so.  I won't even deny the possibility that I am
reading infinitely more into these books than the author ever put there...
but I don't believe it for a second."


>Covenant failed in his struggle to reject destructive delusion.

"Or succeeded in answering the Fundamental Question of Ethics."



Unbeliever smiles dreamily, and then reaches for the eggnog that Mike must have
set down while he was busy orating, and tosses Mike a couple of virtual
quarters.

"You know," Unbeliever says after several gulps, "it occurs to me that we could
set up one of the hundreds of corners about this place specifically for
discussing books...  I haven't had this much fun posting in years...  I
nominate corner number 451, for obvious reasons..."

Unbeliever goes back to gulping his eggnog, pausing only long enough to tape
his own bio up on the wall, next to all the others...

==============================================================================

            Persona: Unbeliever
               Name: Reed Byers
     Favorite Drink: Eggnog, straight up (no alcohol), and lots of it.
      Email address: BYERS@CL.UH.EDU or REED@UNKAPHAED.UUCP
             Gender: Male (last time I checked)
                Age: 24.75 (more or less)
           Birthday: Jan 12, 1968 (an... interesting year)
         Birthplace: Redwood City, California.
  Basic personality: Hacker.  In the TRUE meaning of the word (not equivalent
                     to CRACKER or other breakers of the law).  Happy,
                     logical, loves to learn computer systems inside and out.
                     Contrary to stereotype, I actually have an outside life,
                     though computers ARE my primary hobby.  An optimist in
                     general, a cynic in particular.  
   Political stance: Democrat.  I haven't seen an office-holding Republican
                     YET whose hand I would shake.  I'd vote for a carrot
                     before I'd vote for Bush (he's so SLIMY), or (*shudder*)
                     Quayle.  Perot at least MEANS well.  It's just that he
                     plain scares the hell outa me.  Clinton isn't as afraid of
                     the truth as Bush is, or as devious as Perot.  He gets my
                     vote... this time...
            Hobbies: Computers (obviously), SF/Fantasy, D&D, sharing warm
                     fuzzies with critters both two-legged and four-legged.
             Health: Aside from overeating and allergies, no health problems.
                     I can't stand alcohol in any form (don't LIKE the stuff),
                     and I would NEVER smoke... (I've SEEN what it does to
                     WALLS; I don't want that stuff in ME).
             Wealth: None.  (Poor ex-college-student).
 Sexual Orientation: Hetero 
     Marital Status: Single, but working on it (see next entry).
        Girlfriends: Yes, Barbara J. Hayes, whom I love more than life itself.
               Pets: None, but my roommates have four very spoiled cats.
  Current residence: Houston, Texas, in an Apartment From Hell.
          Education: BS in Computer Science.
         Alma Mater: University of Houston at Clear Lake (next door to NASA).
Place of employment: Same (UHCL), after an evil bout with Waldenbooks.
              Title: Help Desk Flunky, and Vax Lab Assistant
                     (yes, I'm working two 20-hour-a-week jobs at UHCL).
           Religion: Vaguely judeau-christian/taoist/buddhist/druid.
                     Falwell would probably call me "Scientific Humanist", in
                     between lots of other worse names, and he'd probably be
                     right (for once).
     Favorite Color: Purple.  (Barbara's favorite: Green)
     Favorite Books: Anything written by my favorite authors (see Entertainment
                     Likes, below).
         Food Likes: Anything italian or tex-mex.  Any thick-crust non-veggie
                     pizza.  Beef, chicken, TURKEY!  (I love turkey).
                     Pinto beans, cornbread, corn, rice, potatoes.
           Dislikes: Most vegetables, and any seafood that isn't stamped
                     "Long John Silvers" on the side.  Almost all chinese food.
                     (Just what ARE those transparant plant things anyway?)
     Clothing Likes: Anything comfortable and cotton; preferably dark-colored
                     (black and grey, sometimes blue, purple, and green).
           Dislikes: Anything that obstructs efficiency.  Who the hell invented
                     neckties, anyway?  Probably the same sadist you invented
                     spiked heels for women (the American version of Chinese
                     foot binding).
Entertainment Likes: Science Fiction/Fantasy.  Asimov, Aspirin, Brust,
                     Donaldson, Harrison are my favorite authors.
                     I am a big fan of Calvin and Hobbes.
           Dislikes: Horror.  Gore.  Slapstick.  Stupidity.
        Music Likes: Light rock.  Pink Floyd is as "heavy metal" as I go.
                     Triumph (does ANYONE ELSE LOVE THIS GROUP?), Styx.  Older
                     Chicago, Dan Fogelberg.  Air Supply.
           Dislikes: Hard rock.  Ultra-preachy "christian rock", and
                     ultra-twangy country music (in Texas, you really have to
                     hide to get away from the latter).
  Favorite TV shows: The Greatest American Hero (I miss that show!),
                     Doctor Who (ditto; 26 years wasn't nearly enough),
                     Star Trek (in all its incarnations).
    Favorite Movies: Short Circuit (both), Star Trek (All but #5; SHATNER CAN'T
                     DIRECT [or WRITE either]!), Star Wars (all), Superman I
                     and II, Real Genius, DEAD POETS SOCIETY (awesome),
                     lots more I can't remember now...
    Favorite Actors: Robin Williams, Whoopi Goldberg, Patrick Stewart,
                     Brent Spiner, Arnold Schwartzenegger, Harrison Ford,
                     Darryl Hannah (*LUST*), Sean Connery, others I can't
                     remember at present.

In big letters at the end, it says:

IF ANYONE KNOWS OF A FULL-TIME COMPUTER-RELATED CLOSE-TO-ENTRY-LEVEL POSITION
IN THE GREATER HOUSTON AREA... I'M DESPERATE...


+--------------------------------+--------------------------------------------+
| Internet:    byers@cl.uh.edu   | "First things first, but not necessarily   |
|                  - or -        | in that order!"                            |
|            reed@unkaphaed.uucp |                     -- The Doctor          |
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