HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: How evil are the Republicans?
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:54:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.145237.12774@tc.cornell.edu>, shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
> Actually, I think it's important to distinguish between
> the Republican leadership and the average Republican.
> Their leadership has completely sold them out to the
> radical Christian right.  What was once the party of
> Barry Goldwater has become the party of Pat Robertson.
> How else can you explain the platform plank calling
> for a Constitutional amendment banning abortion, when
> 55% of the delegates to the convention are pro-choice?
> How else can you explain Dan Quayle's appearance on the
> ticket when he has an approval rating among Republicans
> of *11%*?  

  I've been thinking about this quite a bit lately, and I
think that Melinda is *right* on target here. The republican
party has always had an streak of meanness on the social
issues front (from the morality side, usually religious).
However, for long as I remember, it has always been tempered
by a side of the republican party which is the "true conservative"
faction which thinks that folks should just keep their noses
out of other peoples business, and especially keep the 
governments nose out (both on social issues, and economic ones).
Barry Goldwater epitomizes this sort of republican. 

  The republicans have traditionally stood for three things:
  
  1) Military Strength 
  2) Economic Growth 
  3) Tradition 

  Number 1's need has been greatly reduced by the collapse of
the xSSR, and Bush has absolutely botched #2. What he have now
is a republican party which is running a presidential campaign
on #3 alone. The tradition they are using is nothing more than
Jerry Falwell's hateful vision of a Moral Majority (ick).
  Personally, I think this is in some ways a good thing. I think
that the republicans are going to be swept out of office by a 
landslide this fall. Here in OC, the buzz around the county is
about *defection* from the republicans to Clinton -- and I mean
defection by very high up people in the party (and very large
contributors btw).
  The republicans are giving the religious right a chance to
stand alone as the sole issue for the party. I think they
are going to fail, and fail big time. The good of this is
that the religious right's will have its back broken from
within the republican party, and it will be out for the
next election. Look for a *very* big change of focus on
issues in a humiliated republican party next time around.
  And if I'm wrong about this, God help us all.
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
From: Minotaur@cup.portal.com (Frank - Swilling)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Re: mandatory service (was Re: Metzenbaum introduces Senate
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 18:05:00 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Aug12.033954.28682@reed.edu> <1360@dosbears>

>BTW, my cuddle-bear, who was, uh, *invited* to program computers
>for Uncle Sam during the Vietnam unpleasantness ...

>         David R. Preston   drp@dosbears.uucp dosbears@netcom.com

Was he Army?  Signal Corps?  Did he do his training at Ft. Monmouth,
N.J.?  What years was he in?  What's his name?  Ask him if my name
rings a bell.  What a hoot if we know each other!

(Can you guess who did his time as an Army Instructor in IBM/Univac
Data Processing Machine Repair, 1969-71?)

Frank Swilling
Minotaur@cup.portal.com
From: Minotaur@cup.portal.com (Frank - Swilling)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Re: mandatory service (was Re: Metzenbaum introduces Senate
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 18:02:03 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Aug12.033954.28682@reed.edu> <1360@dosbears>

>BTW, my cuddle-bear, who was, uh, *invited* to program computers
>for Uncle Sam during the Vietnam unpleasantness ...

>         David R. Preston   drp@dosbears.uucp dosbears@netcom.com

Was he Army?  Signal Corps?  Did he do his training at Ft. Monmouth,
N.J.?  What years was he in?  What's his name?  Ask him if my name
rings a bell.  What a hoot if we know each other!

(Can you guess who did his time as an Army Instructor in IBM/Univac
Data Processing Machine Repair, 1969-71?)

Frank Swilling
Minotaur@cup.portal.com
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: st. cole porter
Date: 14 Aug 1992 14:47:02 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <Bszq1F.9DK@apollo.hp.com> 
betsyp@apollo.hp.com (Betsy Perry) *blasts* Ella Fitzgerald:

> Thttttthpppp!  Ella (or her arranger) censored Porter something
> fierce.

Good heavens, Betsy, Porter was censored until *very* recently.
I imagine that it still wouldn't be possible to sing "Her Heart
Was in Her Work" (particularly not the stanza about the opera
singer who so put her heart into her work that she now has an opera
box).  I think that "I Want to Be Raided By You" would not pass 
Family Hour muster on TV -- can one sing "There's a policeman on 
my street / And he's so sweet / When he shakes his stick /
I get a kind of kick / I thought was obsolete" (it goes on like
that)?

This is not to say that I'm crazy about Ella's Cole Porter
songbook.  I like it very much, but I'm not *crazy* about it.

> For Rodgers and Hart, I highly recommend Frederica von Stade's *My
> Funny Valentine*; von Stade sings the songs absolutely straight,
> to the original orchestrations, no operatic mannerisms. (Thanks to Jon
> Conrad for turning me on to this one.)

AAAAARRRRGGGHHHHHH!!!!!

Tell me you're joking.  *Please* tell me you're joking.

You want to hear some good Rodgers and Hart?  How about Lee Wiley's
"The Songs of Rodgers and Hart"?  How about Mary Martin's recording
with Rodgers on the piano?  How about Ella's songbook?

Arne
From: wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Quilt
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:14:12 GMT

mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:

>Sim asked:
>>>>Has there been any discussion of a soc.motss.quilt?
>I said:
>>>Not that I've seen.  
>jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes:
>>Whatever happened to Jeff Shaevel and Kevin Vail's electronic quilt, which
>>I believe they proposed (and set up?) after Randi Pollard's death?

>Ah.  I couldn't remember who it was that had suggested this.  I'll 
>ask them, in case they don't see the postings.

>But I had in mind a panel in fabric.

A soc.motss quilt (or more than one) would be a fitting tribute to
Rob, and any others whom we chose to honor.  However, since large
numbers of people are located hundreds or thousands of miles apart,
doing it would be a major challenge.  Perhaps there'd have to be a
San Francisco quilt panel and a separate New York quilt panel.

--
Jim Wood [jwood@siemens.siemens.com] (609) 734-3643
"Rise up on the wings of eagles, and two step among the stars.
 You are not forgotten.  Your smile will echo forever."
   -- Ryerson Schwark, to my friend Rob Bernardo.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:31:23 GMT

chloupek@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu wrote: 
->I have heard more biased statements from "masculine" men directed toward
->those they perceive as effeminate or "queeny", then I have heard going the
->other way.  Any bias in the gay community seems to be in favor of the masculine 
->stereotype.

apparently there is, at least from UNGAY GAYs.

i know there are *lots* of gay men who shy away from other gay men with
secondary sex characteristics ... ("i mean, OOH, his back is so hairy.
gross!")  i suspect you are travelling in fairly homogenous social
circles ... where these differences might not be so evident.

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
From: Minotaur@cup.portal.com (Frank - Swilling)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Re: Gay Money and marriages in PA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 18:05:56 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Aug12.210936.7814@nevada.edu>

>barry@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>>I just spoke with a friend in New Mexico who just received some "gay money."
>>
>>She told me that this is supposedly nation-wide.  I've not seen anything like
>>that in Pittsburgh, PA.  Has anyone else seen it?
>
>I happened across a US$1 bill with "GAY $" stamped on it back in
>February.  It was such a surprise I kept the bill.  I guess I'm
>not doing much for the process.  :-)
>
>Chris L. Cobb -- clc@nevada.edu -- Stealth Bear -- B0 f t+ w c+ g k+ s++ p
>

You guys must be *innocent* *young* *things*, or else you'd remember that
in the post-Anita Bryant era, one of the ideas we had to show Queer Visibility
was to stamp every dollar bill that passed through our hands with a "Queer
Money" stamp, so that straight America would discover that we were not only
everywhere, but that we were spending lots of money.  The idea petered out
after a while, but there were a *lot* of "Queer Dollars" in circulation for
a long time.  Maybe someone's doing it again, or maybe some of those bills
are still in circulation.

Frank Swilling
Minotaur@cup.portal.com
From: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: mandatory service (was Re: Metzenbaum introduces Senate bill to end military ban)
Date: 13 Aug 92 08:33:15 GMT
Reply-To: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH


In a previous article, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) says:

>In article <1992Aug13.042650.7512@news.ysu.edu> ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller) writes:
>>Say it was your wife, with young children at home, or your 18 year-old 
>>daughter.  Say they pulled a lower number than you, and got called before
>>you or your 18 year old son.  Is it OK with you then?
>
>what a bizarre thing for me to suppose, Kelley. I'm a faggot. It is
>extremely unlikely that I will have a wife, and I'm really not
>counting on having children.
>
Hypothetically, Nelson.  I'm probably a bigger faggot than you are (both 
physically and philosophically)
(grin)

>Forcing anyone to service, especially military service, is morally
>repugnant. Women or men - I see no difference. But something tells me
>this doesn't surprise anyone.
>
Ditto...


-- 
*...your Friendly Neighborhood Atheist // "Peter...PETER!!  I can see    *
*      the KelleyMan:Kelley L. Miller // your house from here!"          *    
*                  ae642@yfn.ysu.edu // Jesus Christ, from the cross     *
****************Know God...No peace.  No God...Know peace.****************
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Peter Pan (was Re: "Smut")
Date: 21 Aug 1992 01:47:08 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <l99a06INNp9m@mizar.usc.edu> 
adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> In article <1992Aug20.195317.8023@cis.ohio-state.edu> 
> amz@cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:
> > [the words to "Smut" by tom lehrer  
> [...]
> > When correctly viewed,
> > Ev'rything is lewd.
> > <I could tell you things about Peter Pan
[...]
>      I wonder just how much Peter told her about
> his escapades with the fairies in Kensington Gardens (Barrie
> is slightly opaque here).

Oh my, I'd forgotten this:

   After a time he [Peter Pan] fell asleep, and some unsteady
   fairies had to climb over him on their way home from an orgy.
   Any of the other boys obstructing the fairy path at night
   they would have mischiefed, but they just tweaked Peter's
   nose and passed on.

And no, I did *not* make that up.  It's at the end of Chapter 6.

!!!

Arne
From: brent@syacus.acus.oz.au (Brent Davies)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: INFO REQUEST: Lesbian Re-instated in Australian Army
Date: 14 Aug 92 05:20:28 GMT
Organization: Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Melbourne

buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:

>I have been informed that in the Tuesday August 4 MELBOURNE AGE it was 
>reported that a lesbian who had been kicked out of the Australian armed
>forces has been reinstated. Apparently the reinstatement is some sort of 
>delaying tactic the military is trying to use to avoid another review by
>the Australian human Rights Commission. The attorney General has said that
>he is going to ask the Government to overtirn the military anti-queer ban.

>What I need to know is:
>1) What is the lesbian's name?
>2) The details of the case, as in what is the actual military reason for her
>reinstatement and whether this can be applied to other people in Australia.
>3) It would be lovely if I could get a copy of the news article.

>Anyone here more about this?

Here's the article.

It doesn't say much more than you already know, but one thing I do know from
other earlier reports--she was sacked because she *declared* herself to be
a lesbian.  She wanted to create a test case.  This she succeeded in doing,
for it was her complaint that started the whole wonderful brouhaha.

I also know that she has never been named in any news report I've seen. She
either may wish to remain anonymous; certainly, publishing her name is
unlikely to affect the case one way or the other.  Or, there may be some
legal constraint--I can't say.

I'll post anything else that appears on this issue in the future.

**************************************************************************

From the MELBOURNE AGE, Tuesday 4 August

LESBIAN IS BACK IN THE ARMY

The army has reinstated the lesbian officer whose complaint of discrimination
when she was sacked led to the row over the ban on homosexuals in the Defense
Force.

But the army refused to return the sergeant to her parent unit in Perth and
has instead posted her to headquarters.  The woman refused to comment last
night, citing the Official Secrets Act.  [This is mysterious.  Either it
explains her anonymity, or it hints at possible strong-arming by the Defense
Force.  --ed.]

The woman, sacked after 18 years of service in the reserve and several months
as a full-time officer, had complained to the Human Rights Commission.

This triggered a Defense Force review after which, under pressure from 
Defense Force chiefs, the Defense Minister, Senator Ray, overruled the 
Minister for Defense Science and Personnel [who had ordered the ban 
abolished] and endorsed the ban in late June.

The Attorney-General, Mr Duffy, will ask Cabinet this month to overturn the
ban on the basis that it breaches [Australian Labor] party policy and
Australia's international obligations to stop sexual discrimination.

The move is seen by officials as a tactical ploy to avoid a report by the
Human Rights Commissioner, Mr Brian Burdekin, to Mr Duffy advising of a
breach of international law.  Mr Duffy would have had to table the report
in Parliament.

--Brent
From: QAA@psuvm.psu.edu (Tim Bieling)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: More PSU bashing (was Re: He calls this an introduction?!
Date: 19 Aug 92 23:16:42 GMT
 <1992Aug19.042153.28616@reed.edu>
Organization: Penn State University

In article <1992Aug19.042153.28616@reed.edu>, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
says:
>
>soc.motss is one of the least age-biased groups of people I have ever
>been in. Motss is one of the places you are most likely to be judged
>by your ideas, not your age, or your skin colour, or your fashion
>sense. If you want to claim prejudice (in the technical sense of the
>word), I suggest you try somewhere else. The only prejudice I've ever
>seen on soc.motss had to do with people with PSUVM in their address.

I love it, it's PSU bashing time again.  I just love how PSUVM (and
possibly the rest of the U) people are automatically put down, yet
sites with far more rabid posters aren't universally put down.

I've been reading motss for nearly 10 years, and no, I don't post
very often (probably because a post from PSUVM is declared garbage
as soon as the site is revealed).  I agree that this site has its
share of twits, but as I try to remind people, this isn't a little
college, but a very large university - one or two twits should hardly
be enough to be given such a bad reputation.

SO - ENOUGH PSU BASHING!

-Tim
From: msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Michael S. Pettersen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: France (was Re: Gay Republicans)
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:17:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: ohstpy.13407.2a921fbf

In article <l+!nlyb.jfh@netcom.com>, jfh@netcom.com 
(well girded?! Jack Hamilton) writes:

> In article <13398.2a91643d@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> 
> msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Michael S. Pettersen) writes:
>>
>>All in all, I am glad that in two weeks I will be out of reach of the lies 
>>and the doublethink.  
> 
> No, they'll just be in a different language.  France has Le Pen, remember.

I'd forgotten.  They don't have any elections coming up in France, do they?

> JoJo, and whoever else is in Paris, I expect you to be good to Mike when he
> gets there.  I talked to him on the phone earlier today and was reminded of
> how charming he is. 

Shhh!  

-- 
Mike Pettersen
Ohio State Physics, msp@ohstpy.bitnet, msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
soon to be msp@physique.ens.fr
Perfect love casteth out fear.
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Trip to Portland/Seattle
Date: 15 Aug 92 15:25:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug15.152517.29344
Distribution: usa
Organization: insert anything here

Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>Shawn Hicks writes:
>>>** HOW **?  Before the .con, I knew precisely *ONE* person
>>>in Portland.... who doesn't LIKE the PDX Eagle.

>>We knew precisely *no one* in Portland.  Anyway, where else would one go?

>The Dirty Duck.  The description of it in the .con packet was,
>with all respect to whoever wrote it, bullshit.

	I'm 100% with George on this one.

	Despite all the hard work that was put into the .con packet
(and it was a VERY good piece of work), I was appalled at the
description for the Dirty DUck.  It was uncalled for and internally
homophobic.  I didn't say anything at the time because the .con was
so much fun, but it really bugged me.

	For the record: I don't think I have had as much fun at a
Bear event as I had at the Dirty Duck's bear/beer bash.  The people
were friendly, there was little if no "attitude" (or the ursine equivalent:
"beartitude") and the people running the event were very helpful in 
introducing me to some of the locals.  Would most of the trendy
gaie-watering-holes to do half as much, our commuinity would be all
the more better off...

	Then again, my experience to date with most of the cities
I've visited is that the trendy places are the least friendly, and
thje ones that are usually panned as "having a lot of old trolls"
are usually a lot of fun.  

	If you are ever in a position where you have to write up
something that covers a lot of different "types" of places (For a
con or whatever) *PLEASE* remember that people's tastes differ and
that it's always best to address the positive of each place.  If
nothing more, just be non-judgemental and state the facts...  IF the
.con packet had said something like "older crowd" or "neighborhood bar"
people would have had all the info they needed...  "A real dive - old
trolls" just doesn't cut it - esp. for a group as diverse as soc.motss.
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: research on the gay male voice
Date: 23 Aug 92 11:25:04 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Aug23.104311.15568@nstn.ns.ca>
daniel@nstn.ns.ca (Daniel MacKay) writes:

]Do you remember _Buck Rogers in the 25th [or whatever it was] Century_?  It
]was almost totally unmemorable except for
] - [whoever it was]'s muscular and handsome torso swaggering around the
]   screen for two hours, and
] - an advanced computer in the shape of a canteen called "Doctor Theo" who
]   _definitely_ had had his PROMs burned in a hair salon.

Whamo!  Into the quotes file with that one!
What a good cackle!  Thanks.

<> Domini caveat e smilium, diem e smilium, Corpus
<> Christi e smilium.
<> -- Caesar, proposing a ban on the use of smileys
<>    on Rome's "usenet", ca. 40 A.D.
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: John_Graves@cellbio.duke.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Rob Bernado
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:05:44 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Duke University Medical Center

Rob Bernardo placed Mountainview and Concord on the map for me.

I often looked for and read his postings, admiring his style and content.

He wrote me a couple of times and literally forced me to change some viewpoints
by the strength of his arguments.

Rob gave us all part of himself in his writings and e-mail companionship.

I am reminded of a quote from Wallace Stevens, the poet.

     Nothing is final, he chants.

     ... is not writing that language which has renounced producing THE
     LAST WORD, which lives and breathes by yielding itself up to others?

     True revolt is the one inspired by the impossibility of ending.

Rob is gone, yet Rob continues in his words and his friends all over the world.

John Allan Graves
Unitarian Universalist Minister
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: mandatory service (was Re: Metzenbaum introduces Senate bill to end military ban)
Reply-To: shore@tc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:57:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.042650.7512@news.ysu.edu>, ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller) writes: 
> Say it was your wife, with young children at home, or your 18 year-old 
> daughter.  Say they pulled a lower number than you, and got called before
> you or your 18 year old son.  Is it OK with you then?

AAAAAAAGH!!!!  AAAAAGH!!!  AAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!

[oinker]
-- 
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rodney@cub.math.oxy.edu. (Rodney Hoffman)
Subject: Fussell's _Muscle_ out in paperback
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA.  USA
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 19:18:03 GMT


A couple of months ago, there were several posts about the book, 
_Muscle: Confessions of an Unlikely Bodybuilder_ by Samuel Wilson Fussell, and  
how many of the characters were recognizable from those familiar with  
Brignolie's Fitness in Pasadena, CA.

According to the "Los Angeles Times", the book is now out in paperback -- Avon,  
$10, illustrated (!?)

  -- Rodney Hoffman
     rodney@oxy.edu
From: wbs@mred.llnl.gov (William B. Schaefer IV)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: be kind to small furry animals
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:49:45 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

In article <1992Aug17.083946.8377@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>What's the punchline? I've been a vegetarian since I was 15 because I
>am sickened by the violence associated with meat...

Violence associated with meat!  What about the violence associated with
vegetarianism!  I mean isn't harvesting of vegetables actually a form of
genocide?  Plants have consciousness too!  What about plant rights?!

Green Power!  Green Power!

wbs

<sarcasm bit set to 1>