HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: CZ94 <CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: Re: Most spectacular passenger routes
Organization: McGill University
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 18:01:12 GMT

In article <168558829.M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org> M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org writes:
>
>Other great scenic rides that you can still take by regularly scheduled
>passenger train, though I wouldn't think they'd qualify to be among the top
>ten in the world, would be:
>
 (several scenic routes omitted)

>       - The local overnight from Montreal to Senneterre, which passes through
>               a couple of hundred miles of very scenic roadless country across
>               the north of Quebec.

A matter of taste, I suppose, but I didn't find this route all that
scenic.  I've heard the part of this route near La Tuque is very
pretty, but it's usually traversed at night.  I guess you could see
it after sunrise on the southbound train (# 134).  I've only
travelled northbound.

IMHO, a more scenic route is the local train between Montreal and
Jonquiere.  The trip through the Batiscan River valley is especially
nice.  The southbound train on Tuesday and Thursday (#132) gives
a better view than the Mon-Wed-Fri northbound (#133) or the Sunday
southbound (#138).
>
>       - The "Adirondack" along Lake Champlain.
>
I'm hoping to do this one before too long.  I was thinking of taking
the Adirondack in one direction and the Montrealer in the other,
between Montreal and NYC.  Anybody have opinions on which direction
would be better to take the Adirondack?

Other questions for people who know about these two trains:

What's the food service like?  (not the greatest, I've heard)

Is "Custom Class" worth the extra fare?

How far in advance do you typically need to reserve a roomette on
the Montrealer?  What is the Amtrak numbering convention for roomettes,
and will the reservations system let you choose left vs. right side,
or centre vs. end of car?

Any other comments on the Mtl-NYC trains would also be of interest.

Tom Box
CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Hudson Leighton)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: F7 in Watseka, IL
Date: 1 Sep 92 02:05:01 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

Acually the UP has sent a set of A-B-A E9s into the shop for rebuild.


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From: U18983@uicvm.uic.edu (Tim Eisler)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: A few interurban questions
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:53:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: uicvm.92241.145356U12534
 <92237.170135U18983@uicvm.uic.edu> <1684FFF3E.M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org>
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

Recently, I said:
>>Perhaps that was the Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul.

Len Bachelder, M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org, said:
>There was not an interurban by that name.  "Chicago, Milwaukee and St. Paul"
>was the earlier name for the "Milwaukee Road", officially "Chicago, Milwaukee,
>Saint Paul and Pacific".  The "Pacific" was added when they built their ill-
>advised western extension around the turn of the century.  The interurban that
>once ran in the area of which you speak was the "Chicago, North Shore and
>Milwaukee" aka "North Shore Line".

I did indeed mean to refer to the North Shore Line. That's about the
only line this new railfan knows a little about since there was an
east-west segment that ran to Mundelein, IL which is the town in which I
grew up.

Thank you for correcting me about the official name of that line.

Tim Eisler
Systems Programmer
Computer Center
University of Illinois at Chicago
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: carl_henderson@um.cc.umich.edu (Carl Henderson)
Subject: Re: New Amtrak Routes
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 15:42:47 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan
Distribution: na

In article <SDupa.38.0@xview.csuohio.edu>, SDupa@xview.csuohio.edu (Scott Hewis) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Aug25.152546.12860@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jmarshal@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John L Marshall) writes:
> >From: jmarshal@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John L Marshall)
> >Subject: Re: New Amtrak Routes
> >Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 15:25:46 GMT
> 
> >I sent away for the Amtrak study mentioned above, and have just finished 
> >skimming it.
>>  <misc. stuff deleted>

Could you post the address to write to obtain this report?

> I would be interested to hear if the report said anything about additional 
> to/from Cleveland, Oh. i.e. extending the Pennsylvanian from P'burg to Cleve.
> and Cleve., Colum., Dayton, Cinncy.  Thanks.
> 
Me, too.

*******
On a semi-related note, I went to the Ann Arbor Amtrak station today to change/
pick-up a reservation I have for next March and learned of some schedule changes
on the routes I will be taking.  Specifically:

Leaving Cleveland on #49: Departure will be 7:46am, is now 7:11am
                          Arrival in Chicago will be 1:38pm, is now 1:13pm

Travelling LAX to OAK on #14: LAX departure will be 10:25am, is now 9:40am
                              Arrival in Oakland will be 9:18pm, is now 8:33pm.

Thus the connection between the WB SW Chief and the NB/WB Coast Starlight is
looser than it was (2 hrs. 15 min vs. 1 hr. 30 min).  Now I won't worry quite
so much about that connection.  And I won't have to get up quite so early to 
catch the train in Cleveland (getting back is another story, though :(  ).

Does anyone know the status of the Metropolitan Lounge in LA Union Station?
The ones in Chicago, D.C. and NYC are real oases for sleeper car passengers.

Experienced Amtrak riders will already know this, but I will relate this tip
anyway.  Every time you change a reservation, the hold date (i.e., the date by
which you must pay for your tickets) also changes to a later date until a few
weeks before the actual travel dates.  For example, the reservation above was 
slated to be dropped from the system on August 30.  By making one simple change,
the date moved back to November 26 (still a long way before March, 1992!).
Guess I'll have to keep making little changes every few months, just to show
that I'm still alive and interested in taking the trip!

Carl


Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: cpalmer@dingo.rtp.dg.com ()
Subject: Re: Swiss Railroad Questions
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 12:01:27 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, Westboro MA

In article <1992Aug25.210343.29627@webo.dg.com> cpalmer@dingo.rtp.dg.com () writes:
>
>At Andermatt change to the BOB (Berner Oberland Bahnstrasse ?)
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I must have been dozy when I wrote this.
>and do Andermatt - Oberwald - Brig. At Brig change and join the
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Because BOB doesn,t ruo this line. I think the line is really
the FO (Furka Oberalp?).

The BOB runs in the Interlaken-Grindelwald neighbourhood.


> - If you are trying to make close connections, BEWARE of BOB!
                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
My mistake above then leads me to slander BOB here. In fact the
line which in my experience is perenially late is the FO, the
Furka-Oberalp-Brig run.
So, this should read "BEWARE of FO!" !

>   This is the only Swiss line I have encountered which does not
>   run on time. It is always (in my experience) late. Generally
>   in the 10 to 30 minutes range. This may not sound like a lot
>   in the land of Amtrak, but when you are used to making two
>   minute connections it can be quite a shock. Apart from BOB,
                                                           ^^^
														   FO
>   you can pretty much rely on making any connections you see in
>   the timetable.

In fairness to BOB, I must state that they have always been punctual
for the several times I have ridden them.

Sorry for any confusion.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Palmer                            "Ashes to ashes,
Data General Corporation                 dust to dust,
Network Systems Development Division     If Lillee don't get you,
cpalmer@dingo.webo.dg.com                Thommo must!"
From: b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Old cars never die, they just....
Keywords: decomissioning subway/train cars
Date: 26 Aug 92 01:06:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: dog.25757
Reply-To: b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman)
Distribution: world
Organization: lbl
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.154


I found the discussion of delivering new transit cars to the New York
system interesting, and it led me to wonder what usually happens
on the other end.  That is, are cars dismantled in the shops, and
trucked away as scrap metal, or sent elsewhere?  I also imagine
lots of parts might be salvageable for use on other cars of the
same type.

I suppose similar questions arise with freight and intercity rail cars.
Is the salvage value of materials/parts from old railcars usually
more than the cost of scrapping it?

Just curious.

Bruce Nordman
B_Nordman@lbl.gov
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Subject: Re: K B & S     What is it ?????????????
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 17:51:09 GMT

Fred:

Excuse me for not meeting you on E-mail.  My posting
comes back every time.  (I think I can only chain off
your E-mail).

Anyway, if you have duplicate prints from you proposed
trip, would you consider swapping them for something
from my collection? 

I look forward to hearing from you.
~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Subject: Re: Signal type (was: Re: Semaphore Signals)
Reply-To: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 04:27:51 GMT


In a previous article, CSS3@psuvm.psu.edu () says:

>   The recent discussion about semaphores and signal indications brings up a
> point I've wondered about for years, but never asked. Why is it on some lines,
>  mostly branch lines I've noticed, there is a semaphore signal or some other
>  kind of signal that seems to be permanently set in the "approach" (yellow)
>  mode not too long before an interlocking crossing with another RR. I've
>  seen these on both Illinois Central and on a couple ex-PRR branch lines in
>  Indiana and Illinois. I would think that having the signals protecting the
>  crossing would be protection enough. From what I can tell, these approach
>  signals never change indication, even when an opposing train passes by them.
>  I belive on the ex-PRR lines there was a letter "A" on the signal masthead,
>   which I assumed meant "approach." It would seem logical to have these
> signals to "hold" a train away from the signal before the crossing if the
>   crossing is located in an urban area where the railroad doesn't want a
>   waiting train to block grade crossing. But these signals apparently do
>not serve that function.
>
>    How about it signal experts, what is the purpose of these signals?

  I'm no expert, but here's what I know on the subject.  On the ATSF, those 
are called Inoperative Approach Signals, for obvious reasons.  The system 
standard says these signals are to be placed at interlockings where speed is 
restricted to 20 mph and where no other approach signal is provided.  This 
generally means branch line crossings or junctions, although a signal of this 
type guards the southern approach to the junction at Isleta, NM, where the 
line north from Belen meets the main line followed by the Southwest Chief.
  Santa Fe's standard for the inoperative approach is a black painted arm 
nailed in the "yellow" position to a silver painted post.  An amber lamp is 
placed where the arm meets the post.  Most other railroads (BN, NYC, etc) 
forego a new construction and simply place retired semafores permanently set to
the yellow position as inoperative approaches, and some use target signals set
to yellow.  
  Around 1986, a sign with the letter "D" began to appear on the inoperative 
approaches signals of all the railroads I've seen.  It at least provides quick 
identification of the signal's purpose, but may have another meaning.  Just 
what the "D" stands for, I have no idea.

-- 
 o__II___---__---__---___I~~~|~______________    |~~~~~~|~~|~~~~~~| |~~~~~~|~~|
 _|______________________|___|_|     3000    `\  |      |  |      | |      |  |
/ o~~O-O-O-O-O~~O-O-O-O-O~~o~~~~o-o-o~~~~o-o-o~~~~o--o~~~~~~~~o--o~~~o--o~~~~~~
Evan Werkema---------------------------------------------------elw4@po.cwru.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: pierson@empror.enet.dec.com (dave pierson)
Subject: Re: Death Announcement: SEPTA Trolleys in North Philadelphia
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date:  2 SEP 92 12:24:48    

>   But this *is SEPTA, and they've "temporarily" replaced streetcars with
>busses before, and then "temporarily" paved over the tracks and ripped out
>the overhead.   

	FWIW, I have since stumbled on an article in DEVELOPING METRO's, one
	of the RGI "yearbooks" on the Philly rail scene, including
	trolley/lrv's.  It details funding sources (Federal & State) for
	trolley/LRV and speaks of the need to do infrastructure improvements,
	particularly in the traction substations and related power supply
	area.

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
146 Main St			|I am the NRA.
Maynard, Mass	
01754				pierson@majsty.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
From: pierson@empror.enet.dec.com (dave pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: rail grinder in ames
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:18:25 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <1992Sep2.230022.5116@gw.wmich.edu>, 737ochs@gw.wmich.edu writes, in
part:

>I've seen the Loram units working before, and it is GREAT!!!! They had
>a caboose(bay window) 3 or 4 tank cars for water, and 2 grinding units, that
>when looked at from the side, remind me vaguely of a shay, because of the
>shape. There's dark smoke, sparks flying everywhere, a great site. They
>photograph good too.

	One of the LORAM units (6 grinders) is/was working Guilford around
	Boston, according to other Digital railfans.  Two power units, with
	grinders, plus four grinder only cars plus the tanks & "caboose".  The
	"caboose" is set up as fire control, and has such nice touches as a
	hibachi or gas grill welded to one end.  When I saw it around Christmas,
	they had a Christmas tree on the back platform...

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
146 Main St			|I am the NRA.
Maynard, Mass	
01754				pierson@majsty.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: daver@ldgo.columbia.edu (dave reynolds)
Subject: Train info for northern Germany and Denmark
Keywords: trains, travel, Germany, Denmark
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 17:21:34 GMT

I would like information on train routes and fares in northern Germany
and Denmark.  I am going to Kiel via Kopenhavn around Sept. 19 
for a 1 week conference. I would like to train from Kopenhavn to Kiel 
(via Hamburg I imagine). The conference ends Friday 
about noon and I have to be back in Kobenhavn Sunday night the 27th.  
This means I will have several evenings in which to explore Kiel, plus 1 
free afternoon (they're giving us Wednesday afternoon off).  I was thinking 
of exploring either the Baltic coast of Germany and Denmark from Friday PM 
to Sunday PM, or the Frisian Islands.  This really does not provide much 
time so I was just thinking of routes from Kiel to Kobenhavn which would 
take me through either of these places although I know that neither spot 
is really between Kiel and Kopenhavn.

Please e-mail any suggestions to daver@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu

Thanks in advance,

David Reynolds
Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Top Ten Shrines of Western Railroading ( Was: Re: Tehachapi)
From: hansend@physc1.byu.edu
Date: 23 Aug 92 18:54:49 -0600
Distribution: world
Organization: Brigham Young University

Some nominations for top 10 shrines:

> 
>>              Keddie Wye, Feather River Canyon, Union Pacific
>>              California State Railroad Museum, Sacramento
>>              Cajon Pass, Southern Pacific-Santa Fe-Union Pacific
> 
> I'd like to nominate the Orange Empire Rwy Museum, which is the largest
> operating rwy museum on the west coast, and includes both mainline and
> electric (trolley) trains. This is definately a shrine if you're into Los
> Angeles's transit history (rail, PE, and LARy).


If this is the one by Perris, I've been there, though it has been a few 
years.

But my real comment was that every post for a TOP 10 seems, at least to 
my mind, to have missed the most historically significant shrine of them 
all.  Doesn't Promontory Summit, Utah (site of the Golden Spike 
Ceremony) belong at the top of this list?  There are plenty of places in 
the west with more spectacular scenery, and plenty of places with more 
unique railroading operations, but there is no place more historically 
significant for railroading in the western United States.  


Doug Hansen   hansend@physc1.byu.edu


Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: dave@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Dave Rasmussen)
Subject: Portola Backroads in November?
Originator: dave@opus.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: UW-Milwaukee Computing Services Division
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 22:37:16 GMT


Since my last query about transit from SFO International to Davis at
21:30 I got another flight at the same price on Northwest that gets me
in at 18:45 so I think I'd have time to connect with #14 at Oakland or
Concord. Only problem now is I'm thinking of renting a car anyway :-)

My question here though pertains to rail fanning in the backroads
around Portola, etc, the first weekend of November. Just looking at the
maps I have wanted to drive a loop from say Sacramento on 50 and go
around one side of Lake Tahoe (any suggested preference? I like
outdoorsy stuff as much as train stuff) and go north on 267 to 89 and
then maybe go north to chillcoot via Loyalton or direct to Portola, and
take 70 along and follow the UP back to Sacramento. I know this is high
country in some spots. Would this be bad news for someone in a geo
metro in early november?

Is Portola's museum still open then? Are there any other excursions or
anything out that way the first weekend of November?
From: wje@redwood.mips.com (William J. Earl)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Maximum age for cars (was Re: Restroom Closings on Amtrak)
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:46:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: spim.l9spjdINNjg6
Reply-To: wje@redwood.mips.com (William J. Earl)
Organization: MIPS Computer Systems Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: redwood.mips.com
In-reply-to: rad@railnet.nshore.ORG (Rick DeMattia)
Originator: wje@redwood

In article <7m47PB1w164w@railnet.nshore.ORG>, rad@railnet (Rick DeMattia) writes:
> christo@bcarh803.BNR.CA (Mark Christopher) writes:
> > In article <5025@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, macman+@pitt.edu (Dennis H
> > Lippert) writes:
> > [[some stuff about the age of Amfleet cars and cost of retrofitting
> > holding tanks on washrooms.]]
> > |>Also, most of the cars are nearing the 40-year age... quite a large
> > |>number...
> 
> AMTRAK has a policy of not handling cars older than
> 50 years.  This applies to private varnish. One reason is truck
> design.  I suppose age itself is another - they don't want to
> reduce the spped of the train below track speed to accommodate
> antique equipment.

     Is that an absolute rule, or does it only apply to equipment which
has not been rebuilt to Amtrak standards (such as for HEP and 
trucks)?
-- 
	William J. Earl				wje@mips.com
	Silicon Graphics Computer Systems	408-524-8172
	930 Arques Avenue, M/S 1-03		FAX 408-524-8401
	Sunnyvale, CA 94088-3650
From: mdb@csc.liv.ac.uk (Martin Beer)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Swiss Railroad Questions
Date: 25 Aug 92 11:30:10 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Peter Samson (samson@netcom.com) wrote:
> In article <1992Aug19.003036.2051@vitsemi.com> Rob Eccles writes:
> >I will be spending a week in Switzerland in September.  What are some
> >interesting railroads to see or ride?
> 
> In addition to all the other fine suggestions:
> 
> * Anything with narrow gauge will be fascinating; anything with mountains
> will be impressive.
> 
> * The Gotthard tunnel route, especially the famed "north ramp" southward
> from Luzern to Goeschenen.  The civil engineering feats get more and
> more heroic as the valley of the Reuss gets narrower and steeper.  The
> information booths at some of the larger stations may still have a
> tourist flyer about this line.
> 
> * The Loetschberg tunnel route between Spiez and Brig.  Traveling from
> Spiez to Brig, sit on the right, and v.v.  The climb alongside the
> valley of the Rhone leaving Brig toward Spiez has been compared to
> takeoff in a fully-loaded DC-3.
> 
> * If you're not yet blase about European train densities, hang around
> Zurich Hbf. (main station) for a while.
> 
> * Chur is an interesting town (it celebrated its 2000th anniversary a
> few years ago) and its station has the interest typical of a gauge-
> change point.  (I saw livestock being herded from a narrow-gauge stock
> car to a standard-gauge one, for instance.)
> 
> * Get a system timetable (Offizielles Kursbuch).  Note not only the
> amount of service but also its periodic nature, with the same pattern
> repeating every hour through much of the day.
> 
Plus

Go up to Zermatt and then up the Gornograt. This is a trmendous ride, and is not
in tunnel (unlike the Jungfrau).

Do not forget the Cable Cars - they are as great as the rack railways.

Suggestions here would be:

The Schilthorn from Muren in the Bernese Oberland

First from Grindelwald

Kleine Matterhorn from Zermatt

All give fantastic mountain views.

The all system timetable now comes in three parts, and includes all of these
as well as the post busses.  Each locality provides its own local timetables,
which are usually free, and include detailed maps.

> Switzerland is a railfan's paradise!
> 
Here Here !!!!

>   --Peter Samson.

Martin Beer

--
Dr. Martin Beer,
Department of Computer Science,		Telephone 051-794-3672
University of Liverpool,		Fax: 051-794-3715
Chadwick Tower, P.O. Box 147,           EMail mdb@uk.ac.liverpool.compsci
LIVERPOOL.  L69 3BX. United Kingdom.