From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Caucasians don't understand
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:01:04 GMT


In article <1992Aug14.221158.2273@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
>In article <1992Aug14.155011.2853@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug12.183617.21725@inmet.camb.inmet.com> lrq@fanny (Robert Quan) writes:
>>>
>	[Robert's assertion that white people cannot fully understand
>	 the Asian-American experience deleted.]
>>
>>There are, however, some of us who have lived in other countries, and have
>>friends who have lived in other countries. Outside the US, and a few European
>>nations (though not, by any means, all), discrimination on the basis of race,
>>creed, color, sex, etc, is not only the norm, but legal. Some of us, Mr Quan,
>>HAVE been on the receiving end, yet we still maintain "an optimistic view". 
>>Some of us have grown up, spent large amounts of time, or have or currently
>>live in "predominantly minority" (boy, I love THAT phrase) neighborhoods.
>>
>	[Assertion that some white people have family ties and
>	 have done volunteer work for minorities deleted.]

Why?

>I've heard the I've-travelled-a-lot-and-lived-in-places-where-discrimination-
>is-against-the-white-people-and-it's-a-lot-worse argument a lot.

You must be replying to someone else's post; certainly, in mine, there was no
quantitative comparison attempted.

>(Coincidentally, always from white males.)

Then your experience is very limited. Asians complain about how they are 
treated in Asia. As do American blacks in Africa. As do women of all colors
in amny places.

>I had a white male friend, also named Mike.  (Statistical proof that all
>white guys are named Mike!!!)  I was whining, as we all know Asian-American

The Tex-Mex's call us "Jeff", for what it's worth.

>males are genetically programmed to do, about the problems facing
>Asian Americans in the US.  He replied that, yes, he understood fully,
>since he had been travelling in Asia and had faced much worse anti-white
>racism, which I don't doubt at all.  The fundamental point he misssed, though,
>was that he was *travelling* in a *foreign* country.  For Asian Americans,

However, in my post, I did not refer to travellers.
 
>however, we are not travelling anywhere.  We are not in a foreign country.
>We are at home.  This is our only country.  And yet we are not accepted.
>(We can no more go "back" to Asia than white people can move "back" to Europe.)

Nor can my family move back to Asia.

>My friend Mike, no matter what treatment he received in Asia, always knew
>deep in his heart that his journey would end, that he'd return to the
>comfortable white suburbia of his youth, that he wouldn't have to deal
>with systematic, institutionalized racism.  Sure, he might feel a little
>uncomfortable driving through a neighborhood here or eating at a restaurant
>there, but that's not a crushing, omnipresent factor.

>For Asian Americans, there is no return to a safe haven.  This is our
>country, and this is the haven we must make safe.

And if you read the entire post, you would note that I mentioned other friends
as well. 

What bothers me most about these sort of posts/rebuttals, is the tacit or 
explicit assumption that "discrimination I suffer is worse than that you 
suffer and here's why". I do not recall belittling Asian complaints about
discrimination. I do recall mentioning that some of us HAVE been on the 
receiving end of such discrimination. And that some of us remain optimistic 
anyway.

I also recall mentioning that some of us grew up in areas where we were in 
fact the minority race, and as such, we might have an idea of what it's like
to be regarded as different on the basis of skin color. I also mention that
some of us have wives (and children) who are minority. In point of fact, we
*DO* see what you complain about; we simply believe the problems are solveable.

Mike

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