HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: panlilio@acs.ucalgary.ca (Victor P. Panlilio)
Subject: Re: Entry level salaries (was: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?)
Summary: Big words spew forth
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 07:27:01 GMT
Expires: Mon, 30 Nov 1992 05:00:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta
Keywords: philosophy
Followup-To: alt.supermodels

In article <1992Nov9.200044.29801@panix.com> gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch) writes:

>"Experience" and "education" actually denote dimensions of
>status in the hierarchies typical of bourgeois institutions.

Ooohhh..."bourgeois"....I haven't seen *that* word around these
parts before! (confessions of a relative newbie? not!)

*shiver* *tingle* *quiver*

>Consequently, to note that persons equally advanced in these
>dimensions are equally compensated, regardless of gender,

Translation into English: Men and women of high academic and
professional achievement earn more or less similar incomes.

*snicker*

>seems vacuously tautological.  The interesting question is

Spoken like a pedant suffering from a PC virus of the Marxian
strain. Dense, opaque prose fit for obscure legal documents.

Ho-hum. And I aced my Formal Logic for this kind of rubbish?

;^)

>how and whether status is achieved, which is what differs
>per gender, not how well it is compensated, which evidently
>does not.  

The interesting question is how someone whose prose is as stuffy
and dull as yours can even talk on the net or in the real world.

And for those who wondered, the short answer to his question is

Status is achieved in many ways. For some, by brute force. For
others, by sly maneuvering. Some achieve status on the basis of
physical appearance, others by mental agility. And so on and on.

You, on the other hand, achieve your *dubious* status of village
idiot by using quaint and *archaic* terminology to try to put on
the appearance of intellectual sophistication. It doesn't work.

(Rolling on the floor, laughing uncontrollably here...)

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha! *gasp* *wheeze* *cough* *groan*

>When Ed comes back he'll go into the reasons for your not
>observing this on your own.

Ed? Who's Ed? Your big brother? What'll he do? Beat us up? 8^)

(And to think that Saddam gave me a few extra Scud missiles, but
I guess I'll have to move closer to New York to use them, eh?)

Victor 8^)

(note for the humor-impaired: take any or all of the above
seriously at your own risk!)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: compton@plains.NoDak.edu (Curtis M. Compton)
Subject: Re: shelly.gif
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:57:31 GMT
Organization: University of North Dakota, Grand Forks

Well, she seemed cute enough from a distance.  Is there a close-up shot of
her with better image quality?
-- 
Curtis M. Compton           | Future home of Rookerie Software |
compton@plains.NoDak.edu    +----------------------------------+
560 Carleton Court, Apt #11 | "I am the Walrus"               - John Lennon
Grand Forks, ND 58203       | "I am the Keeper of the Cheese" - Ren Hoek
(701) 795-5099              | "I am the Master of Penguins"   - Curt Compton
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: stigs@stud.cs.uit.no (Stig-Lennart Soerensen)
Subject: Nivea commercial girl 
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 10:23:40 GMT


On CNN international they run quite frequently a commercial for Nivea moisture
cream.

In this black and blue commercial, running time axp 30 secs, there is a
beautiful girl lying on her stomach on a bed, its a frontal shot, and
she's reading a book. 

Now, the commercial is accompanied by a tune which I cant remember, its goes like
'you are so beautiful, etc,etc' , and as the camera slowly zooms into her face,
the commercial sortoff vipe into a drab shot of a box with moisture cream.

Now, there is another one (commercial), with the same girl, but with she's facing
a stoopid-looking male model, and (grrr!) she kisses him.

Now the big clue is, the moisture cream is called Nivea. So if any one you others
have seen this excellent commercial, and somehow know who she is (name, age,
adress, phone number, preferred weapon, shoe size etc.) I'LL WANT IT ALL!


(Yes, she is a supermodel, and Yes I have my flame-proof suit on (fnar!))







********************************************************************************
*			PEROT/CLINTON/BUSH -92                                 *   
********************************************************************************
* 'This is a small step for man, but a great leap for anyone with shorter legs *
*  than me...'								       *
*									       *	
* 		WING COMMANDER STIG-LENNART SRENSEN,                          * 
*		FIEND OF THE MIGS AND SAVIOUR OF THE			       *		
*			    FREE SKIES.					       *	
*			    						       *	
*              You may mail me at this following adress			       *	
*	      								       *	
*	      		stigs@stud.cs.uit.no				       *
********************************************************************************
From: cs161feu@sdcc10.ucsd.edu (Anthony Minkoff)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
Subject: Re: Paulina GIF
Keywords: Teddy bear picture from Playboy
Date: 8 Nov 92 06:54:34 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

beh7214@venus.tamu.edu (HEAD, BRYAN EVERETT) writes:
>Someone wrote in wanting
>to know what issue it is from.
>I would post the issue number, 
>but first I'll have to dig out the mags and then sort through the over 100
>mags to find it,

I recommend that you go to your nearest library and look into
something called the "Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature."
You'll save yourself a lot of aggravation.

Oh, and there was a Paulina pictorial in the August 1988 issue, but
I don't know whether it includes the particular picture in question.

Tony
From: egilmour@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
Subject: Brains
Date: 13 Nov 92 10:25:25 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Regarding the Calendars and brains debate, isn't it interesting that
whenever a model is interviewed they make an effort
to point out that if they were not a model they would probably be
pursuing their intellectual interests in college or whatever.
When Elle was on Letterman I remember she said she was planning to go
to law school before she was "discovered" and got into modelling.  
Christy Turlington said (on Letterman) that she wanted to go to 
college once she left modelling, and Cindy Crawford says she is a 
member of the Mensa group(although I don't believe that this really 
proves she has brains anyway).  As well, in the last Vogue magazine
in which Cindy and Richard are featured, the interviewer tries to make
an effort to make Cindy look smart and as if she got her job on MTV
because she has brains and not wholly because she is a supermodel; as a
result the interviewer just made it more obvious that it takes a real
stretch of the imagination to believe that Cindy is intelligent.

But even though most of these models don't have brains, they still 
have an incredible advantage because of their fame and beauty; they could
still probably do whatever they wanted just with these assets alone.



Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: Bob Mosher <rem1@cornell.edu>
Subject: hello
X-Xxdate: Thu, 12 Nov 92 08: 29:16 GMT
Nntp-Posting-User: rem1@cornell.edu
Organization: ---
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 13:26:15 GMT


Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: 9210946@cuslm.ca (THERIAULT YANICK M.)
Subject: babes all around the world
Keywords: babes,women,sluts,whores,whatever you want to call them
Organization: Centre d'Informatique, Centre universitaire Saint-Louis-Maillet
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:52:11 GMT

Dear guys and gals(if any do know how to read this)

No really,I'm really joking about the girl thing,I think girls are the 
brains of society,and they deserve more.
Just wanted to get the attention of the girls that supposidly read the E-
mail,if they are any write back,I eager to talk to a stpid slut if you get 
the picture.



Yannick Theriaut and Co.
University of Machismo,the best place on the planet(not in company of any 
females).
From: mjo@slee01.srl.ford.com (Mike O'Connor)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
Subject: Re: Calendars and Brains
Date: 12 Nov 1992 13:42:32 GMT
Organization: Not an official spokesperson for Ford Motor Co.
Reply-To: "Mike O'Connor" <mjo@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slee01.srl.ford.com

In article <1992Nov11.202710.2458@news2.cis.umn.edu>
chi@oyster.micro.umn.edu (Ed Huai-hsin Chi) writes:

:>   8) What color is ecru? (Claudia Schiffer answered with,
:>   "Broken white? I'm just guessing, wondering if it's the same
:>   in English as it is in French, which is derived from a word
:>   in Latin.")
:
:I have no idea.  I am taking ceremics wheel throwing and electronic
:music: literature, history and principles.  And I have taken
:photography here at the Art Department.  So I have taken a good number
:of art classes, but we have never been required to remember colors.

If it's not in that 64-color set of Crayola crayons, it's NOT a real
color, damnit!  Who came up with crap like mauve and puce and taupe
and sea foam anyway?  

For the record, if Claudia were to say to me "Broken white?", I'd tell
her "Yes!  Anything you say!".  :)

						...Mike

--
 Michael J. O'Connor           |  Internet:  mjo@FMSRL7.SRL.FORD.COM
 Ford Motor Company, OPEO      |  UUCP:      ...!{backbone}!fmsrl7!mjo
 20000 Rotunda, Bldg. 1-3001   |  Phone:     +1 (313) 248-1260
 Dearborn, MI  48121           |  Fax:       +1 (313) 323-6277
From: epasls@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
Subject: 2nd prelude to CindyC gif post
Date: 12 Nov 92 01:45:29 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Oh, before you start whining some more,
give me 24 more hours to post them.

later...
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: bheess@cheshire.oxy.edu (Brian L. Heess)
Subject: Re: Do all supermodels smoke?
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:49:02 GMT

In article <Bx5F18.ItC@DMI.USherb.CA> cormm00@DMI.USherb.CA (MARTIN GUY CORMIER) writes:
>n article <2NOV199201460363@venus.tamu.edu>, beh7214@venus.tamu.edu (HEAD, BRYA
>N EVERETT) writes...
>> 
>>Has anyone else noticed that it seems that every major supermodel smokes?
>
>According to what I have read most supermodels smoke including:
>   Elle, Paulina, Cyndi, Chistie Turlington, Stephamie Seymour,
>   Linda, Evangalista, Maoni Campbell and more.
>
>I have seen on TV or pictures in magazines Elle, Cindi, Mani and Stephanie smoking

Cindi was on MTV smoking, in that ad, but it looked as if she was
making a statement about NOT smoking, I could be wrong.

I have heard it said that smoking can contribute to weight loss, or at
least not eating, since I suppose it relates to something being in your
mouth...but, smoking probably has something to do with weight on a 
chemical/heatlh level, as well.  I wonder if that has something to do
with these models smoking.

-Brian

-- 
--
Brian L. Heess, Network Engineer, Xircom, Inc., Calabasas, CA, USA 
Home: bheess@mcws.fidonet.org   | 818-353-0727
Work: bheess@Xircom.com         | 818-878-7161 
Xref: sparky alt.supermodels:1572 soc.women:19015 alt.feminism:3888 soc.men:18827
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Date: 7 Nov 92 17:15:26 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <lfnqeuINNrso@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums) writes:
>In article <BxBCp7.BC8@encore.com> aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich) writes:
>>williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums) writes:
>>
>>>In article  891666t@dragon.acadiau.ca (Trish Turliuk) writes:
>>>>The fact is we see *one-type* of women portrayed everywhere as the idealized
>>>>women and even this isn't a real type for she is subjected to hours of makeup
>>>>and airbrushing before she goes in front of the camera. The majority of women
>>>>don't see themselves reflected in society at all. How many models have you  
>>>>seen with crooked teeth?
>>>----
>>>	I had to take issue with this.  When was the last time you saw
>>>a car in a car add anywhere that was dented and/or scratched, paint
>>>bleached out, seats torn, tires flat or worn, windshield cracked, rag
>>>top torn, etc etc etc...  The fact is when advertisers are selling somethink,
>>>they want to use 'perfect' models.
>>
>>What does this mean? Are they selling women on TV now?
>>
>>al
>----
>	Duh.  Women are used as 'model's on which to hang products that
>are sold.  Also, models are looked at for their own sake -- just as
>you can buy calendars of cars for their own sake.  Nothing is being sold
>except the vision of the car (or women) itself.
>
>-wat-
>--
> --- "If women really earned fifty-nine cents to the dollar for the same
> work as men, what business could compete effectively by hiring men at
> any level?"    -- Dr. Warren Farrell

One problem: Cars are inanimate objects that cant feel hurt.  Women are thinkingfeeling human beings who are psychologically hurt being USED like a hunk of
metal to sell a product.  Women may be partially responsible for their mental
health in this matter as suggested by the person who claimed it was all
a self-esteem problem.  Okay.  By the same line of reasoning I cant blaim
someone who hurts me by punching me in my mouth.  Afterall, it is partially
my responsibility for not blocking the blow and striking back.  If Im not
in good enough shape to ward off attack I guess it is still my fault.
I could have had let other things I value in my life go while I worked out
to prepare for being attacked.  Why should I blame the person who struck
me?  Enough of the sarcasm.  Do you see what Im saying.  People are hurt
by having society being programmed to expect others to live up to an ideal
image.  Just because someone may have the capacity to help themselves in
the face of an injustice doesnt make the injustice less of an injustice.

Steve R
Xref: sparky alt.supermodels:1599 soc.women:19103 alt.feminism:3970 soc.men:18897
From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Date: 8 Nov 92 17:45:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Nov8.174514.10081
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <lfqj54INN98m@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums) writes:
>In article <BxC8n0.Au9@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> stevenra@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Alex Stevens) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov6.150355.9849@rtf.bt.co.uk> fletcher@rtf.bt.co.uk (Catherine Fletcher) writes:
>>
>>>By the way, anyone who has the slightest grasp of what sexism is and doesn't
>>>understand why an Elle calendar is offensive and harmful and a Chippendales
>>>calendar isn't probably has no aptitude for complex thought - therefore I
>>>am resorting to condescending insult rather than reasoned explanation.
>>>
>>>-- 
>>> Catherine 
>>
>>	You make it sound as if sexism only exists toward the female.
>---
>	Well, there are several things she said, she didn't say it was sexism
>against women to have the calendar -- but that it was offensive and harmful.
>She may be equating the two, but I don't read that in what Catherine wrote.
>
>	As to your statement about sexism existing in the society.  I had
>a major disagreement with someone about this with someone, and she
>wasn't able to explain it in a fair manor, but took a short class
>on Diversity in the Workplace that explained that 'ism' is something
>that the group in power does or can do to the non-dominant power group,
>so in our culture as a whole, blacks cannot be guilty of racism and
>women can't be guilty of sexism.  

A wonderful way for women to justify their sexism, while still claiming
that male sexism is wrong. Same for racism.

And people are actually buying this....

>                                  In different power settings where
>where blacks or women hold more power relative to men, the blacks or
>women can be guilty of 'isms'.  In all cases the non-dominant power
>group can be guilty of 'ist' (racist, sexist) behaviour.
>
>	A minor technical point, but one I thought I would clarify.

You've been brainwashed bud, squeaky clean.
 
[...]

>-wat-
>
> --- "If women really earned fifty-nine cents to the dollar for the same
> work as men, what business could compete effectively by hiring men at
> any level?"    -- Dr. Warren Farrell


Rich

payner@netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: "william ip" <william.ip@canrem.com>
Subject: address request again
Reply-To: "william ip" <william.ip@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: alt
Date: 8 Nov 92 18:25:57 EST

ANother request to anyone who can post addresses to the manufacturers/
printers/distributors of various calenders...

mucho gracias in advance...

William
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Xref: sparky alt.supermodels:1510 alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.d:8739
From: epasls@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.d
Subject: CINDY fans-READ
Date: 5 Nov 92 03:02:40 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Howdy all.

This is dmc, the one who 20 people mailed requesting the
cindy+stephanie-clothes.gif and others.
My first intention was to trade it for erika pix and be 
done with it.  It has become a pain in the ass.
I will post my 5 best cindy(nude) pics to alt.supermodels and
a.b.p.e within 7 days.
If you download it and appreciate it than dont email me but instead
show your appreciation my posting some erika eleniak pix.
In any case I will from now on will not reply to any mail
regarding trading of pix(I just dont care about gifs that much)
I will only post jpegs since they are less painfull,I will
not cut into 64K chunks(I dont think it matters anyway-most of
my pix when jpeged are only 50k or so)
I am about to endeavor to make my own chunk splitter/splicer
in turbo C. I know there out there somewhere but I just cant
seem to find one that works(last one wouldn't unzip right)
Plus it will expand my programming skills.

Thats all I have to say, thanks to the two people who emailed me erika
pix-the second i fucked up and accidentally deleted but its the thought
that counts.

Later.................................
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: cf542@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Julio Richard Laredo)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
Subject: Re: You guys gotta...
Date: 10 Nov 92 01:14:48 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


The tabloids have linked Carla with Mick Jagger.

-- 
Have straitjacket, might travel.
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
From: 891666t@dragon.acadiau.ca (Trish Turliuk)
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 17:01:50 GMT

kytan@mantra.fia.dmg.ml.com (Kok-Yong Tan) writes:
>their feminine vibes (since they are societally bound not to have to come up to
>you to ask you for a date and have you stare down your nose at them like
>something slimy just crawled up to you.) Do you notice that the women (that
>I've met, anyway) who DO come to ask you for a date DON'T have any problems
>with Elle calendars?  :-)

Rash generalization alert! RGA! I ask men on dates as much as they ask me.
It doesn't bother me that a man will find a real woman who walks by 
beautiful (unless she's composed of several artificial features: loads'o'makeup,
peroxide/dye, killer coloured nails). It *does* bother me that what society
has governed to be beautiful is put up on a wall. Unrealistic objectification.

My 2 cents on a cloudy saturday in Nova Scotia.
Trish

-- 
Trying to help make a better world in which to live for ALL -who try to help
'even a blind man knows when the sun is shining'
NAMESGALORE-ANONYMOUS:Tish=Kermit=Herb=TR.=Spice=Pecute=FISHIE.FISHIE.FISHIE
Xref: sparky alt.supermodels:1646 soc.women:19192 alt.feminism:4055 soc.men:18968
From: gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
Subject: Re: Entry level salaries (was: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?)
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:00:44 GMT
Organization: mydog in exile

sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart) writes...
| >More recently, I've seen statistics that when men and women have the
| >same level of education and experience, they earn about the same.  The
| >only reference I have is that in the most recent salary survey taken
| >by the MAA that I've seen (probably a year or two old), women with new
| >PhD's in math earned more, on average, than men with new PhD's in math.

nissim@mary.fordham.edu (Leonard J. Nissim) writes:
| Here are the *new* statistics (from the November 1992 issue of "Notices of 
| the American Mathematical Society"):
| 9-month academic salaries of people with new Ph.D.'s in mathematics:
| (`new' means granted during the 1991/92 academic year) 
| Median salary for men----$34,000  (interquartile range--31,000 to 36,000)
| Median salary for women--$34,900  (interquartile range--33,000 to 37,100)
| Note that women earn over $1.02 for each $1 earned per man.  
| 
| >And anybody who claims that only men can be sexist is a reincarnation
| >of Ed Nilges.

"Experience" and "education" actually denote dimensions of
status in the hierarchies typical of bourgeois institutions.
Consequently, to note that persons equally advanced in these
dimensions are equally compensated, regardless of gender,
seems vacuously tautological.  The interesting question is
how and whether status is achieved, which is what differs
per gender, not how well it is compensated, which evidently
does not.  

When Ed comes back he'll go into the reasons for your not
observing this on your own.
-- 

 )*(    Gordon Fitch    )*(    gcf@panix.com    )*(
( 1238 Blg. Grn. Sta.,  NY NY 10274 * 718.273.5556 )
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 17:38:13 GMT

In article <Bx9rsE.K7z@world.std.com> marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans) writes:
>payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
>
>>I know eating disorders are dangerous, but you are usually healthier being
>>slim than if you are overweight. And obesity is a bigger problem than
>>bulemia and anorexia combined (to the best of my knowledge, I will look
>>this up when I get home).
>
>Do you mean a bigger problem for the person who has one of these problems, or
>that obesity is more widespread? If the latter, I encourage you to realize that
>the stats on that are wildly variable, depending on where you define "obesity"
>and how you define "eating disorder". Don't forget that much of what this 
>society views as normal behavior is actually very unhealthy; many people are
>quite healthy at higher weights than are often considered "normal", and the
>way women (and, to a lesser extent, men) view food and eating habits is just
>bizarre. 

>         Basically, we expect women to be following unhealthy eating habits,
>reward her if she does and revile her if she doesn't. 
 
Do we? Or do the women involved improperly associate certain physical traits
to happiness/success or whatever they value?

You can justify the claim about what "we expect" with psychobabble, but
that does not prove any sort or causal relationship.
 
>>And this claim is not true.
>
>Okay, stats man, show me the stats to prove it.

I need to make another trip to the library. I'll get back to this.
 
>Marty

Rich

payner@netcom.com


Xref: sparky alt.supermodels:1679 soc.women:19264 alt.feminism:4126 soc.men:19030