From: mykes@shell.portal.com (mike myke schwartz)
Subject: Re: Bush's Pardons
Organization: Portal Communications Company
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 10:22:26 GMT

Nathan Engle (nate@psygate.psych.indiana.edu) wrote:
: dodsonsl@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:
: >So what do you conservative types think of the Bush pardons?
: 
:     Well, I'm a liberal type, but I honestly think it was for the best. It 

One of the few intellectuals around, IMO :)

: bugs me that laws were broken and lies told and all that rot, but I don't  
: see that it really serves anyone's interests for us to go on reliving the 
: past. 

I'm sure that this is how most of us feel.  

: The people who were ultimately responsible for the Iran-Contra fiasco 
: were the leaders and they're on the way out. 

There are laws against doing drugs, but people do them anyway.  There are
laws against sodomy, but it is done anyway.  There's even a law in Chicago
against flying a kite in city limits, but people fly them anyway.  But heaven
forbid that Al Capone fly a kite because the govt. was watching for the
minutest breaking of any law to put him away on.  

The crimes these guys were getting busted for had NOTHING to do with
Iran-Contra, and they're quite petty.  We have a man who has unlimited time
and funding and all the resources of the government who has picked Reagan
out as his "Capone" (target).  He won't stop until he bags Reagan for jay
walking.  

It _should_ be obvious to everyone what is and has been happening.
Just look at the harassment of Weinberger.  Charges brought that don't
stick.  Bringing the charges alone cost Weinberger $250K per month to
fund his defense.  Charges brought out the weekend before the election
dropped by the first judge who heard the complaint.  Weinberger was asked
if he took notes about meetings he attended, and he offered as little
evidence against himself as he had to.  He kept a diary, but no notes as
such specifically about the meetings.  To me, this is clearly a case of
terrible work by the prosecutor, not something to send Weinberger to prison
for.

The October Surmise panel's failure to dig up any dirt on a similar claim
of improper (and, IMO much worse) actions by these same people lends more
believability that these guys were doing their jobs as they saw it best.


: I wouldn't really get that 
: much satisfaction from tormenting their underlings, and I don't mind 
: watching them walk away at this point. 

Please consider that if Reagan himself were charged with purgery with such
flimsy evidence, even he would incur great costs to defend himself.  This
has gone on for 5 years, and has hurt many people's underlings...

: We (liberals) have an opportunity 
: to bury at least one of our hatchets and I think that we should jump at it. 
: We have nothing to lose by being magnanimous and we might have a great deal 
: to gain.
: 

This is very much in clintonspeak. :)

: >  Over on
: >your second favorite newsgroup, alt.fan.dan.quayle, they're pretty
: >upset about it.  I don't think anyone is really surprised Bush did it,
: >though.
: 
:     *I* was surprised. After all the insistence that those guys weren't 
: guilty of anything it came as a surprise to me that Bush thought they 
: needed pardons. I would have thought that it would have reflected better 
: on Bush if they had faced charges and been vindicated, but maybe there was 
: some substance there after all.
: 

Some of us believe that what Bush did was incredibly brave and totally contrary
to his wimp image...  The way your liberal press paints the picture, Bush has
forced the entire focus of the investigator onto himself.  An incredibly
heroic gesture, and one of great compassion.  The man would DIE for his friends.
And consider that dirt diggers have been checking every phone call, visa ticket,
hotel bill, etc., on Bush and his children for the last 12 years...  I doubt
clinton and his family will get equal treatment :)

But from what you write, you obviously either believe the men to be guilty
before they've been proven guilty or you believe them to have been proven
guilty (beyond a shadow of a doubt :).  If Reagan is guilty, charge him
with a crime, or leave him alone.  Same is true for all the rest.  Quit trying
to stick bullshit petty crimes on these guys.  If lying to congress is all
they're guilty of, this whole investigation was a waste of time.

: > I guess things will be pretty boring scandal-wise now that the
: >party of the 'moral right' won't be in charge anymore.
: 
:    Don't count on it. Remember Billy Carter?

We can hope they take the muzzle off hillary.

: 
: --
: Nathan Engle                        Software Juggler
: Psychology Department               Indiana University
: nate@psygate.psych.indiana.edu      nengle@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.misc