From: 19064@chopin.udel.edu (Liang-Wen Chang)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: God's Influence
Date: 18 Aug 92 05:35:33 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

I have read all responses to what I asked, and I appreciate all
responses.

I have few more questions to share:
A: Who the Bible speak to?
When I read the Bible (New Testment), I feel the first 4 books Jesus
talked to people who believe in God but not believe in Him.  In my 
understanding, Him tried to reform the belief.  To me, a person
has a history of no any God's influence from start to present (
that is the history of China), I feel the Books is a struggle 
between the reformist and the old-timer.  The presumption is
people believe in God but now (then) they also should believe
in Jesus is the trinity of God.  The rest of New Testment books
is talking also to Christians who's faith or action are not
living up to Christ's teach.  Most books are the letters to
various chruches then.  In the churches, there are 'misconduct'
inside of those churches, Paul, Peter, ..., they had messages
to churches with such troubles.  In all, I can understand the
teach is to churches with people who already have God and
Jesus in their belief but fail to live up (or understand) to
their belief in full.  To me, it seems one step ahead, and
the teach is quite remote.  I saw the same misconduct inside
of today's churches, for that matter, the society also has the
same degree of misconduct.  I see the troubles in churches
as many as outside of churches, the difference is the degree.
I am not saying so to blame churches.  What I said is that Paul,
Peter, John, they addressed the problems inside of churches, while
now we read them as they addressed to all ( in and out of churches)
people.  But there is a gap between people who come from a society
evolved from churches's influence and people who don't.
All in all, I raise the question because I don't feel so much
the Bible is talking to me.  It is talking to people who believe
in God but not in Jesus, and people who believe in Jesus but
can't live up to His teach.
To me, the Old Testment is difficult to read.  I have a feeling
(as I can understand), that God is Isreal's loving God, but is
punishing God to all others.  God is more exclusive than inclusive then.
And I see even then, gentiles in Bible believe God's mighty, but
they were casted as evil races.  At that time, there was no
such problem as 'believe in God' or 'not believe in God', the
problem is 'obey God' or 'not obey God'.  I see I am not belong
to any discribed groups in either Old or New Testments.  There is
one more question about God's plan: Man is a pawn between God and
devil(Satan), a pawn in a war between God and devil.  This war
is quite remote for the very existence of man.  What is happening
before the war start, and what will happen after the  war end?
If God knows the result of the war, why does He need to put
man in between to prove He is right.  Transfer the struggle between
God and devil to man's struggle in between just to prove God
is right?  Why God need such proof if He knows what will happen?
prove to who? Satan?

B: Deism or belief of a living God?
If I review my belief, I find myself believe God's work that
He created what we know now, but ceased to influence thereafter.
I hope God can influence me without my excuses, that is God can
defeat all my excuses.  Not I guess what God's will, but
God's voice 'exactly' tells me.  I have seen so many Christians
said they had God's words, and other Christians also said
they had God's words, but were contradict to each other.
If God is a living God, there should not have such confusion.
If God's words IS God's words, there should be no interpretation
problem.  If it is God's own voice and want us to understand,
He should not need any interpretation.  Let me hear God's
own voice and God's own words in person. It shouldn't be so hard.
And if God is a living God, there should be every day messages
from God for people who believe in Him, and messages keep
on coming from God.  This question leads to my next question:
Holy Ghost.

C: How do you know the existence of Holy Ghost in you?
I have been told many times that 'don't follow your will, but
hear holy ghost in you.'  I want to know how many Christians
have holy ghost in them? What is it sounds like when holy ghost
talk to them?  How often it happens?  For many years, I pray and
I never hear holy ghost talk to me, I only hear my own voice.
At quiet night, I clear all my thoughts, wait and pray and wait
all I know is my own existence, nothing else.  I read Bible,
I can only say I 'feel' God talk to me, I never know God
talk to me thru holy ghost.  There even times that I 'thought'
my 'feeling' or 'my understanding' is what holy ghost talk to
me.  Therefore, in last post, I said it is en-believing by
the heart that I want to believe, but not by the fact that
the holy ghost is existing in me that I physically know
it exists.  Another thing is that I have seen Christians
said beware the voice of devil in me talk to me.  It is
very difficult to tell?  Now how am I going to tell from
devil's voice, holy ghost's voice, and my own en-believing
voice?  I have seen one accused another that it is
devil's voice, while counter accused the same, but both
were insisting their own are holy ghost's voice.  But I
only hear my own en-believing voice (wishful voice). 

I have heard gospel since I was 5,  there were times I read
Bible 'between lines', there were times I asked questions
to be proven by logic or science, there were times, I pray
for help, there were times, I praise God and Jesus.  I
am asking now is not for my knowledge of God, not
proof, not evidence for belief, but very simple: just
one question: why I can not believe in God?   I am
not a pacifist, I can not be in twilight to say I
'think' I believe in God.  Either I believe in God or
not.  Solid facts or solid influence on me, I hear or I
see or some other physical matter that I can identify.
Like I ate food, I will never say I 'feel' I ate food.
That is something not so superficial as feeling, thinking,
but solid as seeing or touching, or eating, hearing.  I
hope I am not asking too much from God.  

Just as Thomas can't believe Jesus's recurection even after
3 years following, Jesus can show him in person.  Just as
Paul was so evil, Jesus can show him in person.  Why is
that Jesus can show himself in person then, why not now? 
Besides that, the unbelieving and sinful behavior of
Christians or non-Christians today are less than either
Thomas or Paul, then why Jesus can not show in person.

I have many questions in my mind, some for 20 years, not
to questioning other people's belief, but honestly faces
my own belief.  Between me and God, I state that I have my
needs, I have my difficulty in depending on God, I am not 
asking other people or methods to prove anything, but
asking God Himself to show once in my lifetime.  I do not
feel it is 'ordering' God to do something on my demand 
for asking God to talk to me as another person talk to me,
or asking God to show himself once whenever He wants to.
If I will depend on God for every step of my move, I 
don't feel I ask too much from God, comparing what God
wants me to do my part given God knows my born weakness (sin).

I may appear not humble, but in facing myself, honesty may
lead me to truth.  I am humble in front of truth (appear to me).