HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.railroad

For all you motorcar buffs out there (and for those who are just curious),
here is a list of some of the upcoming motorcar events in the West.  The
first one is sponsored by the Feather River Rail Society, and the rest
are sponsored by Motorcar Operators West (MOW).

01 August: Portola Speeder Time Trials at Portola, CA.  On the following
day is a run on the Collins Sugar-Pine RR at Chester, CA.  The fee is $10.
Contact Wayne Monger at (707) 746-8238.

08, 09 August: Santa Cruz, Big Trees and Pacific RR at Felton, CA.  The
fee is $20 and AARO insurance is required.  Contact Ron Zammit at (805)
489-5724.

21-23 August: McCloud Railway, McCloud, CA.  the fee is $120 and AARO
insurance is required.  Contact Ron Zammit.

05, 06 September: Nevada Northern Railroad, Ely, CA.  Includes overnight
campout at Shafter where the UP crosses.  The fee is $40 and AARO in-
surance is required.  Contact Ron Zammit.

Cheers,

Greg Brahms WB6UHH
"I'd rather be riding my speeder."

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: balzano@mary.fordham.edu (BALZANO-SILVIO)
Subject: Railroad simulation for the Mac
Organization: Fordham University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 02:29:00 GMT
X-Posted-From: mary.fordham.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

To all:
	I once remember seeing that there was a model RR simulation for a 
computer (I think someone on this list was building it).  Does such an 
program exist for the Mac?  How do i get it?  Please answer to me directly, 
since I don't regularly read the news.

Silvio Balzano
Internet: balzano@mary.fordham.edu
BITnet: BALZANO@FORDMULC
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: leveret@warren.demon.co.uk (Nick Leverton)
Subject: Re: Trip report on the C&TS
 <9207230732.AA21585@hplomg.hpl.hp.com>
Organization: Indexed; Access: Random.
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 17:48:51 +0000

In articles <9207240235.AA29965@hplomg.hpl.hp.com> and
<9207230732.AA21585@hplomg.hpl.hp.com> :-) BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM
wrote:

>I think you mean S-bends.  I don't recall any switchbacks on this route.  A
>switchback consists of pair of switches at the ends of a piece of track on
>which the train backs up and then reverses again to continue when climbing
>steep terrain where there is no room for sweeping turns.

Interesting linguistic difference. A switchback in non-US usage is a
very hilly road, which gives a ride like one receives on a roller
coaster (I bet that's different in the US too :-)). What you describe,
we would probably call a reversing station or a Z (pron. zed :-))

I can't remember seeing any references to this sort of setup in the UK,
but it was not uncommon in colonial railways, for instance the Darjeeling
Himalaya line in India and Aliwal North to Barkly East in South Africa,
both of which are still in use and both with revenue-earning steam !

Nick Leverton
    ______________________________________________________________________
   <nleverton@cix.compulink.co.uk>            <leveret@warren.demon.co.uk>
   X400: I=NJ; S=Leverton; OU=mdn0402; O=ICL; PRMD=ICL; ADMD=Gold 400; C=GB
Organization: Drama, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:40:19 -0400 
From: Denise Pullen <dp2r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Train .GIF uploads to wuarchive.wustl.edu

I have uploaded the following files to /graphics/trains on wuarchive.wustl.edu:

E6-51
F7-236
OCT-75
OCT-RPO
OCT-TR
PM-11A
STM1309
STM490B
TROL-171
TROL-375

As always, all files have a .jpg extension and can be decompressed using
the "JPEG" .gif compression/decompression program.

Please address all questions, comments and suggestions to me at the
address above. Thanks.
From: jps@dworkin.wustl.edu (James Sterbenz)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: New Signals on NEC Mainline ?
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:40:50 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Washington University,  St Louis MO

In article <1992Jul20.171319.16430@Princeton.EDU> jsm@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (John Scott McCauley Jr.) writes:
>In article <83833@netnews.upenn.edu> sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.) writes:
>>The old-style PRR position-light signals (three yellow aspects) had been 
>>replaced by colored aspects positioned as the yellow ones would have been
>>for the same instruction, i.e. two green aspects aligned vertically=proceed,
>>two yellow aspects aligned diagonally=approach with caution, two red aspects
>>aligned horizontally=stop.

[...]


>Those new-style signals (or similar ones) go as far as New Haven
>I think -- there may be a few gaps around stations.

North of GCT to New Haven are searchlight signals at interlockings
(and the approaches).  These replace the old NH semaphores.  The signals
on this line are going fast, however :-(.  All automatic block signals
are gone, and the interlockings are being resignaled with only dwarves
R
G
R
that indicate absolute stop (double red), clear subject to cab
signals (flashiing green), and clear to next interlocking for
freight locomotives withoug cab signals (double red flashing alternately
with green -- called the "christmas tree" by Metro North).

BTW, this is the one part of the corridor owned by Metro-North, not 
Amtrak.  

South of GCT are the PRR position light signals that are being colorised.
I'll shortly post an article that gives the full layout of these
heads in response to the original signal thread...


--
James Sterbenz  IBM HPCC       (High Performance Computing and Communications)
                472 Wheelers Farms Rd. MS93           jpgs@watson.vnet.ibm.com
                Milford CT 06460-1844 USA                      +1 203 783 4380
From: sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: 69th Street Terminal (was Re: Push-Pull: Which Way Do...)
Date: 29 Jul 92 20:00:33 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

I've been out of the loop on this group for a little while, so I didn't get
around to this thread until it had run its course.  But since several posts
mentioned the unusual track arrangement on the Market-Frankford El at 69th
Street Terminal, I'd add a point or two, and some speculation:

Since standard rapid-transit trains usually run double-ended, subway and
elevated terminals normally lack turnaround loops.  Ordinarily, a terminal
station has the same number of tracks as the line that serves it; trains are
switched onto the appropriate track, and crews change ends.

69th Street Terminal, however, is a _three_-track station at the end of the
(two-track) Market Street elevated.  The third (northernmost) track lies
_outside_ the station's "paid area" and has its own platform, which is used
only to discharge passengers.  The turnaround loop is used to bring trains
from this track onto the two tracks in the paid area, which share an island
platform.

As to why the station was constructed in this fashion, I can only guess.  My
best guess is that as this station was the sole interchange point between the
main elevated line to Philadelphia and the entire Red Arrow suburban network,
the PRT brass expected heavy usage at rush hour, and wanted to keep outbound
and inbound passengers separated to speed up operations.

Other guesses will be entertained.
___________________
Sandy F. Smith, Jr.
Graduate Division, School of Arts and Sciences, University of Pennsylvania
16 College Hall, Philadelphia, PA 19104-6378.  (Opinions mine, not Penn's)
Internet: sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu
 
"The God I serve don't make no trash!" -- Rev. Emanuel Cleaver, Mayor, City
of Kansas City, Mo.
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 92 15:57:58 CST
From:         Derek Morgan <C31801IE@WUVMD>
To:           NETNEWS@WUVMD
Reply-To:     derek@wubios.wustl.edu
Subject:      Re: Local laws apply?(was Re: Horn-blowing)
Newsgroups:   rec.railroad

>> Jack Hamilton writes:
>>
>> I've heard about laws like this, and I've always wondered: how do local
>> communities have control over the behavior of trains?  ICC or FRA rules
>> would override local laws.
>
  Not necessarily; there are towns in Missouri that have been known to
stop trains and issue tickets because they were going over the speed
limit. The track is certified FRA 79, but the town speed limit takes
precedence (I think this town's limit was 40.) UP pays the fine.

Maybe it's a city revenue strategy for the 90's...

Derek Morgan
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,rec.models.railroad
From: yves@speedy.dev.cdx.mot.com (Yves Vidal)
Subject: 0-8-0 Indiana Harbor Belt historical/technical information
Organization: Motorola Codex, Canton, Massachusetts
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:15:11 GMT
Followup-To: rec.models.railroad
Keywords: 0-8-0 


I would appreciate getting some information on one rare steam 
engines, namely the 0-8-0 Switcher made by ALCO for Indiana Harbor
Belt (NYC). 

There was only 3 engines of this type (#100-102) which included some
unusual features : 3 cylinders on the main driver + a booster on 
the first tender truck. 

I am building an O-scale model of it from an old Rivarossi kit, and 
would appreciate obtaining more information to detail it. Any book 
references or articles or opinions are welcome.

Thanks for your help.

Yves



Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Subject: Railroad Commercial on CNN
Organization: LLNL
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 23:34:56 GMT


	Just this morning on CNN, not long before "Today's
Business"(?), I saw a commercial for the Burlington Northern freight
railroad. It featured some nicely done animation, such as a locomotive
turning into a galloping black horse, and it depicted some cars being
put into an auto-rack car and a truck trailer (as if advertising being
in the "intermodal" business of hauling truck trailers).

	It is significant that BN appears committed to attracting
business; when I was at the California Railroad Festival in
Sacramento, I saw some brand-new locomotives on the rails near the
Railroad Museum -- locomotives belonging to Union Pacific and Atchison
Topeka Santa Fe, though not to Southern Pacific.

	Given the abundance of freight-container and truck-trailer
shipments, at least here in the US, I must ask if we have a growth
industry in the making. Since rail sidings can't go to many places
anymore, relatively speaking, trucks are absolutely essential for
local deliveries. But for longer stretches, trains are probably more
cost-effective; fuel and labor costs are almost certainly less than
for trucking. There is also the interesting question of relative
safety, and the expense of road maintenance (even with highway
subsidies, I'm sure truckers have to pay a bundle in taxes).

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Subject: Re: Amtrak travel info request
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:13:57 GMT

Lee:

Another thought occurs to me after rereading your post.
Yes, you can bring a cooler with your own food aboard.
I always do.

The exception is alcohol.  It is a federal offense to bring
your own liquor, wine or beer aboard (unless it stays locked
in your suitcase).  On my last trip east on the California
Zephyr we had trouble with an unruly drunk in my car.  We 
picked him up somewhere in Nevada or Utah.  He had a secret
stash of liquor in his luggage.  After several warnings from
the crew, the conductor gave him an ultimatum:  let them lock
up his alcohol for the duration of the trip or get off at the
next stop.  He refused to do either, so the conductor arranged
to have a deputy meet us at Fraser, Colorado (about three stops
after the warning).  Meanwhile the fellow went back to the club
car.  The conductor had him cut off, but he had picked up what
might charitably be called a floozey who kept him tanked up.
When we finally got to Fraser, the drunk was put off the train
and his full ticket price was refunded.  The conductor said he
asked the deputy to hold the man until the next day so he could
dry out.  If the crew of the next train wanted him, he could
ride again.  Otherwise the conductor suggested putting him on
a Greyhound.  It added a bit of drama to the trip, and thanks to
our padded schedule, we still got to Denver pretty much on time.
~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jbvb@vax.ftp.com  (James B. VanBokkelen)
Subject: Re: Amtrak improvements
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP
Reply-To: jbvb@ftp.com
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:22:40

On the Southwest Chief, they do wash the windows at Albaquerque, NM,
both ways.  I agree about the lounge attendants - the long layovers
don't really seem to be enough to make up for ~27 hours on-duty in
the course of a ~40 hour trip.

James B. VanBokkelen		26 Princess St., Wakefield, MA  01880
FTP Software Inc.		voice: (617) 246-0900  fax: (617) 246-0901
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: 0-6-0 T Help.
Keywords: oil, steam
Date: 24 Jul 92 04:53:57 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1992Jul23.184315.2867@ryn.mro4.dec.com> pierson@cimnet.enet.dec.com (dave pierson) writes:
> In article <33262@cbmvax.commodore.com>, grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
> (George Robbins) writes, in part:
> 
> >Railroads traditionally used Bunker C or heavy industrial fuel oil, but lighter
> >fuel oil may be easier to procure and avoids problems with having to pre-heat
> >the oil.  I know one local tourist line used regular home heating oil, the
> >truck would simply pull up to the engine and make a ~200 gallon delivery.
> 
> 	Some place I have a slide taken from "the bridge" at Cheyenne, WY.  A
> 	UP steamer (I shan't embarass myself guessing numbers) was being fueled:
> 	BIG tanker truck along side, fuel hose snaking up to the tender,
> 	LONG wooden dipstick on top, various personnel lounging about.  Takes a
> 	while to fill that big a tank.  Obviously THAT didn't burn "diesel 2".

I think the difference works out that for the common fuel oil, your local
distributor just stops by with the delivery truck.  For the heavy oil, you
by a "truck load" which travels from the refinery or pipeline depot direct
to your tank.  I don't really know the tank capacity of one of the smaller
tank engines, but I'd think your talking 200-500 gallons, which isn't quite
a truckload.

Most of these engines just ran in shuttle or yard service, so they really didn't
need that much fuel or water between stops.  Now a main-line steamer would be
another story...

> 	A friend worked part time for afuel oil company, including fueling
> 	diesels for <deleted> RR.  They would pull into town & he would meet
> 	them and fill 'er up.  AT one point, funancial realities being what they
> 	were, the word came down:
> 
> 		COD for the RR.  NO MORE CREDIT.

heh-heh...

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing:   domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
Commodore, Engineering Department     phone:  215-431-9349 (only by moonlite)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: zbang@access.digex.com (Carl P. Zwanzig)
Subject: Re: accidents at level crossings
Keywords: accidents
Organization: The Midnite Group
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:42:16 GMT

A few years ago, I worked in a steel mill in Baltimore, MD.  When you go
to the plant police station to get the access pass, you sign a paper that
says, among other things, that the trains are ALWAYS right.  They even
have a couple of posters with interesting (I hope posed) pictures.
These trains only operate at <15mi/hr, and seem to have the horn connected
to the brake lever ;-), but even so, they get someone every so often.

"Did you hear about old Hank?"
"No, something happen?"
"He raced a train to the crossing."
"Oh, who won?"
"Ever see 'em bury a locomotive?"

Carl Zwanzig
zbang@digex.com
From: Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: CP Rail multimark orientation
Date: 26 Jul 92 17:23:49 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

> Calvin Henry-Cotnam writes:
> 
> Now what is "A" and what is "B"?  Good question, and someone else
> will have to answer that to be certain.  But I can say for sure,
> having recently painted two CP hoppers (I have a personal rule
> to always have full photographs showing all sides of a car's paint
> scheme and to have a real prototype for the car number I paint)
> that the brake wheel is at the end with the multimark.


The 'B' end is defined as the end of the car with the hand-brake.  If a car has
a brake on each end (such as a caboose), the A and B MUST be stenciled on the
car.  When standing at the B end, you also define the Left and Right sides.

So if in my paperwork I was going to show a cracked flange at Wheel L4, it
would be:


R4  R3        R2  R1
--------------------
A end         B end
--------------------
L4  L3        L2  L1


--

 steve_hooper@mindlink.bc.ca   []  Conductor on the High Iron of
 OR      a777@mindlink.bc.ca   []     CP Rail - Cascade Sub
 The Great White North in      []
 Vancouver, BC CANADA          []   Opinions are mine, NOT CP's
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: leveret@warren.demon.co.uk (Nick Leverton)
Subject: Re: Switchback (was: Trip report on the C&TS)
Organization: Indexed; Access: Random.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:40:43 +0000

In article <1992Jul27.064036.4027@sq.sq.com> msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader) wrote:

> > Interesting linguistic difference. A switchback in non-US usage is a very
> > hilly road, which gives a ride like one receives on a roller coaster ..
> 
> I agree with the first definition, but not the second.

I stand by my description as far as British usage goes :-) It refers to
an up-and-down ride, not an upwards-by-means-of-zig-zags one.

However I agree with zig-zag as a term for what we were discussing: it
just slipped my mind the other night.

Nick Leverton
    ______________________________________________________________________
   <nleverton@cix.compulink.co.uk>            <leveret@warren.demon.co.uk>
   X400: I=NJ; S=Leverton; OU=mdn0402; O=ICL; PRMD=ICL; ADMD=Gold 400; C=GB
From: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Hudson Leighton)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: The State of Train Hitching
Date: 16 Jul 92 23:45:02 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

Well here we go again.

"Hitching" on trains is a good way to get killed!!


UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!hudson
INET: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org
ICBM: Lat. 44.59 x lon. 93.13
HAM:  NONMX  444.100 repeater
Advertisement: Try the Railway Post Office BBS (612) 377-2197 a Railfan BBS
From: FBCB@IUNSYS.IUN.INDIANA.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: NEC detectors, B&O Baltimore division
Date: 30 Jul 92 02:47:46 GMT


Could somebody please provide me with formats of detector readouts on

Amtrak's Northeast Corridor, and locations of the detectors on the 
mainlines. Also, I need the signaling rule (251 or 261) on the tracks
from Harrisburg to Philadelphia, and from Philadelphia/Zoo to Washington
Union Station. If rule 251 (one-direction signaling), give the direction
for current of traffic.

Also, I would like the locations of detectors on CSX Baltimore Division that
Amtrak's Capitol Limited and Broadway Limited trip on their way to
Pittsburgh for my ride next month.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Dave Chary
(fbcb@iunsys.iun.indiana.edu)


Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ehr@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl)
Subject: Re: ICE high speed train
Summary: ICE commenbtts
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:49:05 GMT



A couple of quick follow-up comments on the previous discussion of
the German ICE trains:

The French TGV reservation system works like the airlines reservation
system in large part because it was done by the same American
Airlines subsidiary that did the widely-used SAABRE system.

The reservations policies (required on TGV, optional on ICE) have
advantages and disadvantages for both sides.

Last fall I rode both the TGV-A and TGV-PSE lines and the ICE
within a two week period.  I had a Eurail pass and in some cases
was making spur-of-the-moment decisions on travel plans.  In France
I missed a couple of close TGV departures because I was waiting in
line to get the mandatory reservation.  In Germany I was able to 
make a couple of close connections because I did not need the
reservation.  Both the TGV and ICE trains I traveled on had some
empty seats.

In general, my impressions of the ICE were much more positive than
those in the original post.  I did not think that the food prices
on the ICE were that much out of line.  (I have detailed notes on
this at home.  In fact, I have detailed notes on the whole trip,
if anyone is interested.)

Based on some of the material I received from the DB, I believe that
they made a conscious effort not to use articulation between the
cars so as not to have to bad-order an entire train-set if there
was a problem with a single car.  (On the German trains it is much
simpler to take a car out of a train than it is on the TGV; in the
latter case this can only be done in a shop with heavy equipment.)

Whether this was a good decision is apparently debatable.


The German ICE is a newer system than the TGV.  I think I can 
recall reading about early problems with the TGV, too.

Unfortunately, rolling stock design and production in Europe has
many political influences.  Look, for example at the fact that
a small country like Austria produces its own locomotives -- even
when in some cases it might be cheaper to add their orders to 
those in a German production run.  The Germans decided they wanted
to do their own thing with high-speed rail.

Interestingly enough, when the Spanish ordered their AVE equipment
(which is basically a slight modification of the TGV) they opted 
for the German LZB (ICE type) signal system for these trains.

 -- Ernest

-- 

"My other computer is a Nikon N8008." -- Ernest H. Robl
Ernest H. Robl (ehr@ecsvax)  Durham, NC, USA   +1  919   286-3845
                                         FAX:  +1  919   286-1696
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp)
Subject: Re: Push-Pull Service: Which Way do the Locomotives Point?
Organization: LA&W RR
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 13:56:36 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.110647.6495@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:

>	Here's another interesting configuration: that of the French
>TGV. It has an electric locomotive on each end of the train, making it
>symmetric, and presumably able to move in both directions.  

I think that the discussion on push pull service has shown that this is
not enough of a reason to have a loco at each end.

This arrangement was run for many years on the CNJ, sometimes called
"push me pull you".  Typically a string of "turtle back" coaches with a
GP7 at each end.  This was also run for a while between Newark
and Kearny, NJ with two coaches and a 4-6-0 camelback at each end.


>A locomotive may be necessary at each end to guarantee that the forward
>end is always streamlined (probably critical for 200 mph speeds), in
>whichever direction the train is moving. That is not always possible
>with the typical passenger car.

But cab cars used in push pull service are not "typical" since they have
an engineer's control stand, cab window, etc.  There is no reason that
the engineer's end of the cab car could not be "streamlined" with a
wedge nose, etc.  Don't some of the "Amfleet" cab cars have a Metroliner
style point?


>	Interestingly, the TGV passenger cars are in 10-car units,
>each pair of cars sharing a bogie, instead of every car having two
>bogies (very common). This multi-car unit does not, however, share
>bogies with the locomotives. I have seen shared bogies for some LRV's,
>such as the Santa Clara ones (two cars with a hinge between them and
>riding on three bogies). I have even seen some shared-bogie flatcars
>(for freight).

I believe that the Santa Fe or some other western road may have experimented
with passenger cars have two cars riding on 3 trucks.  The Talgo Train
or Train-X or one of those 40's/50's experimental trains may also have
been articulated.  I seem to recall 4 unit sets of ~30' ore hoppers
riding on 5 trucks, and of course we have the 5 unit stack train well
cars riding on 6 trucks.

Newsgroups: rec.railroad