HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: "slow glass": story reference sought
Date: 3 Aug 92 17:57:48 GMT
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

In article <gpatton.5605@meltdown.chi.il.us>, gpatton@meltdown.chi.il.us (Gavin Patton) writes:
> I seem to recall an illustrated magazine from about 15+ years ago that 
> used "slow glass" as a plot vehicle to tie several illustrated shorts 
> together.  That's the only place I've seen the concept used.  This is, 
> I hope, the same concept -- a piece of special glass that holds an image 
> and releases it slowly at a later time?  If so, that's where I remember 
> seeing it first.  If not, oh, well.

	There is a short story about slow glass in "The Road To Science
Fiction" (Vol 4, I think).
	A man and wife visit a slow glass artist in the hills.  They see his
wife looking out the window.  Later they find out that slow glass works both
ways and the wife is merely an image of a long-dead wife.

Brett
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
Disclaimer:								   NOT!
From: urf@icl.se (Urban)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Author Polls, voting systems (and Jack Vance)
Date: 11 Aug 92 05:30:54 GMT
Organization: None. On USENET I speak only for myself.

IOR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Thomas Hyer) writes:

>I feel a explanation is due to those who have discussed
>the Author Polls' format recently.  As I see it, the

It has been proved, that if there are three or more choices,
no voting system can exist, i which all voters agree on who
is the winner. As long as one understand the limitations,
any system can be used.

>Ideally,
>those most familiar with an author's work would be given
>the most influence; 

I think so too: As one who have read and owns all his novels,
I'm quite baffled by the results of this poll, but accept the
results anyway, for of course people should only vote for what
they've read; and what they've read is most likely influenced
by what other people have recommended, thus the results are
useful anyway.

(OK, what did I find strange: That _The Gray Prince_ should
get such low results, when I like it quite a lot. I guess there
are people who don't like the political view put forward in it.
Second: As Vance is one of the most humourous writers around,
I thought that would be reflected more. Good entries in this 
category are _Showboat World_, _Maske: Theary_, _Cugel's Saga_ 
and everything with Magnus Ridolph. Funny, but not quite as 
good are _The Five Gold Bands_, _The Blue World_ and _Space Opera_
for example.)
-- 
 Urban Fredriksson urf@icl.se (Or: n.g.u.fredriksson.swe2001@oasis.icl.co.uk)
From: I0060301@DBSTU1.RZ.TU-BS.DE (Klaus Blumberg)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Farmers 'World of Tiers'
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:52:37 GMT

hi netfolk,
probably this came up umpteen times before, but:
how many books belong to the 'world of tiers'-series
by farmer? can u give me the titles in reading order?
pls respond directly.

Klaus Blumberg, Braunschweig, Germany
bitnet: I0060301@DBSTU1
Internet: I0060301@DBSTU1.RZ.TU-BS.DE
From: jefft@athena.mit.edu (Jeff Tang)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: _Tigana_ question
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:51:39 GMT
	<darknite.714030847@camelot> <1992Aug17.074842.16149@kithrup.COM>
	<darknite.714087758@camelot>
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology


I take a much more symathetic view of Brandin.

Don't forget that in the end, he gave up the curse that had meant so much
to him.  Partially out of hatred for Alberico, but mostly he did it for
love of the the Palm, his new adopted homeland.
--
Jeff Tang
jefft@athena.mit.edu
From: WRT@CORNELLC.CIT.CORNELL.EDU (Bill Turner - Cornell University Library)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: SF-LOVERS Digest   V17 #410
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:39:04 GMT

>From: dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann)
>Subject: Bester & Banks
>
>Due to recent discussion on the net, I picked up Bester's _The Stars My
>Destination_ the other day when I saw it at the library.  It was an
>interesting read, and does indeed hold its age well.
>
>What I found most remarkable about it was once I finished the story, how
>much it reminded me of Ian M. Banks' _Consider Phlebas_.
>Both are about men who are driven by hatred, and a need to achieve
>vengeance.  Both men are mostly a product of their environments and
>experiences.  When they are not captive of those who would heed their
>progress, they are captive of their own consuming need to inflict damage on
>their enemies.
>
>Neither one of them achieve their goal.
>
>Other similarities exist (both stories take place against a back drop of
>war; both characters posses an uncommon and powerful innate ability...)
>
>It is interesting how Bester ends his story on a note of hope for the
>future, while Banks' ends his similar story on a note of futility.
>
>Comments?  Additions?  Arguments?
>
Have you ever read _The Count of Monte Cristo_?
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: darknite@camelot.bradley.edu (John S. Novak III)
Subject: Re: _Tigana_ question
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:27:39 GMT

In <1992Aug18.173350.4681@news.eng.convex.com> cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) writes:

>Possible mild spoilers follow


>Did he act out of love for the Palm--or out of love for his concubine?
>(What's her name...it's on the tip of my tongue!) 

Dianora.
I'm not sure.  For one thing, I'm pretty sure that he didn't
realize that she was Tiganese-- she seemed terrified of losing
his love if she ever brought the subject up.

I had the impression that the _only_ reason he released the spell
on Tigana (and everything else he had ever done) was because
Alberico and the other bunch of Palm wizards were going to
exhaust him, bend his mind back, and if Alberico had his way,
suck his grey matter out and spit it back at him.  Sacrifice to
save the Western Palm, yes.  Sacrifice to save Dianora, yes.
Sacrifice to save Tigana?  I remain unconvinced.  IMHO.

>But you're quite right--this is one of the things I like so much about
>_Tigana_. You can't have a tragedy when the villains are totally evil and
>the protagonists totally good. This is because tragedy requires that you
>feel a degree of sympathy with the one who falls--but that he must fall at
>least partly due to flaws in his own character. If a total schmuck goes to
>ruin, you're not moved by it; if a perfect angel falls, then not only do
>you fail to feel sympathy--you can't understand why it would happen.

Agreed, agreed, wholeheartedly.  I'm not a great fan of
tragedy-style fiction, but this one grabbed me by the throat and
drew me in.  (It also ages well.  I've read it twice in something
less than twelve months.)

I feel such sympathy with Brandin because he could have been, and
except for the Tigana episode, probably was a very good person.
I've said before, his conquest of the Palm probably would have
been a _good_ thing, taking an historical perspective.

And Alessan, too, was a good person, forced into atrocities (like
binding the wizard Erlein to him-- on a smaller scale, that
action was perhaps just as bad as what Brandin did.  (Does it
ruin the sense of wonder if I ask whether Alessan could have
bound Alberico or Brandin to him in that fashion?)

>Brandin fulfills well the requirements of tragedy--he's complex, and good
>enough to evoke some sympathy, but is ultimately done in by his own
>obsessions--the chief one being revenge, as personified in the Fool. The
>fate of his concubine is, of course, more tragic still. A heroine undone by
>love always earns high marks in tragedy. Sigh. 

Well said.

--
"Nothing to me is more distasteful than that entire complacency
and satisfaction which beam in the countenances of a newly
married couple." -- Charles Lamb
John S. Novak, III		darknite@camelot.bradley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: chris@MorningStar.Com (Chris Miller)
Subject: Re: seeking a Bujold story
Organization: Morning Star Technologies
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:28:49 GMT

In article <92232.110420TIP@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> TIP@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes:
>In the July through October 1991 issues of Analog there was a Bujold
>story called "Barrayar."  I managed to miss part of the series and
>was wondering if it was published anywhere else.
>Any recommendations on other good works of hers are also appreciated.
>-Karen

Try your local book store.  


Chris
From: gsl2598@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: orig. sf writing
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:42:13 GMT
Reply-To: gsl2598@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University

Hi,
I'm not really a follower of this newsgroup, but it seems to be mostly
chat about existing SF Literature.  Some friends and I are interested in
writing general SF stories and posting them.  However we can't seem to 
find the appropriate newsgroup, and we can't create our own.
Stories would be from a futuristic (sp?) SF with spaceships to a fantasy
SF with knights-in-shining-armour.  One friend suggested a rift-type
storyline with both of the above meeting.  If anyone could suggest a
current group, or would like to help set up a new one, please e-mail me
at:     gsl2598@trex.oscs.montana.edu   or     sum1els@gnu.ai.mit.edu

Thanks a lot,
Leprican ~~~
From: krk@ITL.ITD.UMICH.EDU (Kenneth Knight)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Lois McMaster Bujold - recommendations?
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:48:45 GMT

There is at least one other non-Miles book out there: Falling Free. Falling
Free is set a couple hundred years before Miles' time and therefore Barrayar
can't figure into things since it was still isolated. Falling Free shows us
the Quaddies (you see one in Laberythn, too) and how they survive.
 
  ** Ken **
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: gdg019@cck.coventry.ac.uk (Ridley McIntyre)
Subject: Re: Katherine Kerr's Polar City Blues
Organization: Ironpig Arcadia, Coventry, UK
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:09:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.200526.10151@cas.org> lgs57@cas.org () writes:
>I recently read Katherine Kerr's Polar City Blues.  I enjoyed it very much.  I
>especially liked the treatment of aliens and psychics.  Did anyone else read
>it and what did you think?  Would you call it a suspense SF novel?

Not necessarily a _suspense_ novel per se, but it had various elements of
detective fiction in it. I read it hoping to God it wouldn't be the kind of
book I've been working on for the last five years (far-future war going on
around a neutral planet with a huge dark city on it controlled by a 
megacorporation - and the megacorporation's secret police force looking for
a murderer with a political motive... sort of Gorky Park in space, if you like)
and I am glad to say it wasn't that at all. I liked it a lot, and hopefully
learned a lot from it's literary style (the whole thing is in present tense
but that's something you don't even notice until you're about three pages
into the thing) which I think is excellent. It almost made me want to start
getting her fantasy stuff as well, but because of the price of books here I
plumped for Tad Wiliiams instead (Kerr's 600-page book is 5 pounds, Tad's
900-page book is 6 pounds).

Nunks was excellent. It's interesting to see how someone can build a character
out of an alien that can't even talk to everyone. The psychic bit was good,
too, though it took me a little while to understand all the <'s and >>>'s.

See ya,

-- 
		 **Ridley McIntyre - Ronin Ironpig**
		     gdg019@cck.coventry.ac.uk
		 -----------------------------------
             "Oh man, this is too real." - The Hard Way
From: IOR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Thomas Hyer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Order of Banks books
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:45:53 GMT
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center


  Is it advisable to read _Use of Weapons_
before _Player of Games_ and _Consider Phlebas_?

Replies by EMail, please.

Thanks,

Tom Hyer
From: gdg019@cck.coventry.ac.uk (Ridley McIntyre)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Epic fantasy
Date: 14 Aug 92 12:57:44 GMT
Organization: Ironpig Arcadia, Coventry, UK

I'm about half way through Tad Williams's first novel in his Memory, Sorrow
and Thorn series, "The Dragonbone Chair", and I'm well impressed. I'm not
a big fantasy fan, but I haven't be able to put it down since I got it. Plays
havoc with trying to get up in the mornings when you've been awake till 4 
reading a book...

The second book is out, called The Stone of Farewell, and I don't know if
there's a third. Anyone else know anything about this?


-- 
		 **Ridley McIntyre - Ronin Ironpig**
		     gdg019@cck.coventry.ac.uk
		 -----------------------------------
             "Oh man, this is too real." - The Hard Way
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science
From: ojvind@cns.caltech.edu (Ojvind Bernander)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: McCaffrey advice
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:21:30 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Originator: ojvind@plato.cns.caltech.edu

Never having read a McCaffrey book, I'd like to try one.
But she seems to write long series and I don't want to
accidentally pick one up in the middle.  What is a good
first book to read?

-- Ojvind  (ojvind@cns.caltech.edu)
From: ciar04@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Recommendation on Fantasy Epic Novels
Date: 12 Aug 92 12:38:47 GMT
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster

In article rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:

>    You like David Eddings? Yuck. He was interesting when I was in grade seven,
> but his books are a little too shallow now. If you haven't read The Hobbit
> and The Lord of the Rings, they are must reads. Tolkien inspired an entire
> generation of third-rate rip-off authors like Eddings. 

When it comes to reading, I'll say to each his own.  When I read, I like to
seek some form of escapism.  I read for enjoyment, not for critical analysis.
It's like fashion, or taste in food.  If I want something literary, I may
read say E.M. Foster.  If I want to do series reading, I'll read say
Journal of Finance (I have to work, you know).  But for entertainment, I
rather read something like Eddings.  Mind you I am not saying that Eddings'
books are good.  In Belgaraid and Mallorean, I like the punchy and witty
dialog, which is mostly absent in The Elenium series (got the name wrong in
the first posting... sorry).  In fact, IMHO, I think The Elenium series
was just okay... not great.

My taste in sci-fi is again the same.  I like Asimov short stories (like
the one involving the space detective) but I do not like the Foundation
or the Robot series.  I like Mote in God's Eye (read some 10 years ago), but
not all of Niven/Pournelle other stories.  E.E.'Doc' Smith's Skylark
series was great, but the Lensmen series was just okay.  Ditto for many
other writers/authors.

Regards.

#----------------------------------#-------------------------------------------#
|  W.H.Watt                        #  JANET:                                   |
|  Dept. of Accounting & Finance   #           w.h.watt@uk.ac.strath.vaxa      |
|  University of Strathclyde       #  Rest of the World:                       |
|  Glasgow                         #           w.h.watt@vaxa.strath.ac.uk      |
|  United Kingdom                  #                                           |
#----------------------------------#-------------------------------------------#
From: gbrach@galaxy.gov.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: _Tigana_
Date: 19 Aug 92 10:16:01 -0700
Organization: BC Systems Corporation

In article <1992Aug18.174321.58241@cc.usu.edu>, slg7m@cc.usu.edu writes:
> I just started following this newsgroup and I've noticed the fpopular Tigana
> thread.  Would someone be kind oenough to tell me what the book is,
> who the author is, etc?  Thanks.
> 
> Tanya Olsen
>                 
> 
> slg7m@CC.usu.edu

The book is called _Tigana_, by Guy Gavriel Kay.

Gabor.

-- 
       t     Gabor Brach.	"Like the rat said:  'Keep the cheese,
    gttttt   Victoria, B. C.	 I just want out of the trap'"
gggg b t     (God's waiting			Chief Engineer Geordi LaForge
g  g b t      room)				"Where Silence has Lease"
gggg b  tt
   g bbbb
 ggg b  b	"...with a boulder on my shoulder, feelin kinda older,
 g g b  b        I tripped the merry-go-round..."
 ggg bbbb                                       B. Springsteen
From: pvitaris@emubus ("Vitaris Paula")
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: (none)
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:20:00 GMT

TO SAUL JAFFE:

I'm terrible with computers and I've been sending messages
like crazy but it seems to have no effect.

Would you please DELETE my name from the SF-Lovers list,
including writers, TV, movies and miscellaneous!

Thanks.

-Paula Vitaris

Paula Vitaris <PVITARIS@EMUBUS.BITNET
From: curtw@EULER.JSC.NASA.GOV (Se~nor Droolcup)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: What are the best fantasy books involving dragons?
Date: 17 Aug 92 12:52:00 GMT

If you don't mind your dragons being a bit, uhm, sedentary, you 
should check out Lucius Shepard's "Dragon Griaule" series of short
stories/novelettes. I can remember:

                The Man Who Painted the Dragon Griaule
                The Scalehunter's Beautiful Daughter
                The Father of Stones

Definitely a new twist on dragon mythology.

Curt Wiederhoeft
curtw@euler.jsc.nasa.gov

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: coimay@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu ( LAURA CARRIERE)
Subject: Re: _Tigana_ question
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-26836]: sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: coimay@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
Organization: The unofficial LSU news node
Distribution: usa,ca
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:52:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.062820.28093@u.washington.edu>, mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings) writes...
>In article <1992Aug19.224659.2809@cs.tulane.edu> coimay@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu writes:
>>
>>Hmm, since Mr. Kay is Canadian, and so am I, I was reminded of the 
>>national unity debate occurring in Canada right now.  The province of
>>Quebec (Tigana) is in danger of losing its cultural identity (name)
>>due to the English culture invasion by the rest of Canada (Brandin)
>>and the U.S. (Alberico).  Apologies to my American friends, but Tigana
>>was in Brandin's territory, not Alberico's.  The other way I looked at
>>it was the possibility of the loss of Canada due to the inability of
>>the separate factions to work together and come to an agreement.  And
>>even the French Canadians will agree that when it comes to pride and
>>stubborness, they beat the rest of us hands down. 
> 
> Mr. Kay was living in Italy for a reason when he wrote the book. He was
>also immersing himself in period Italian culture. I would say the Italian
>perspective was what he was looking for.

Well, even I'll agree that the feel of the book is Italian, but it wouldn't
surprise me if the initial core of the lost country theme came from 
Canada's current troubles.  But if it didn't, that doesn't matter, it's
still what resonated with me as I read the book.

  Laura Carriere
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ericsa@microsoft.com (Eric Sassaman)
Subject: Lois McMaster Bujold - recommendations?
Date: 11 Aug 92 02:04:40 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.

I just finished Bujold's _Falling Free_. I was very impressed. However I was
disappointed with _Brothers In Arms_. I'd like to try some more Bujold but
perhaps stay away from her Vorkosigan (sp?) novels. I've seen good words
about _Warrior's Apprentice_... any other recommendations of Bujold's works?
Thanks in advance!


-- 
Eric Sassaman, Microsoft NT Developer Support
ericsa@microsoft.com
  I don't speak for MS, I just try to figure out how NT works.
  "From there to here, from here to there, funny things are everywhere."
From: darknite@camelot.bradley.edu (John S. Novak III)
Subject: Re: Death Gate Cycle (Possible Spoliers)     
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 13 Aug 92 06:19:54 GMT

Stephen D. Grant writes:

Gee, I hope this page break works...


>The Fizbang <or whatever> character turned me off pretty bad at first. 
>I did enjoy the dragon, but hated Fiz's references. It seems the character
>comes from a previous series by Weis&Hickman, and seems to be a "pet"
>character. Most people that have read the other series, seem to enjoy
>him in the Death Gate Cycle.

If the only other W&H books you've read were the Darkswords, then
you wouldn't recognize 'Zifnab' as being an alter-ego for Fizban
of the Dragonlance series.  I looked at the Zifnab character from
two different points.  Taken only as the generic looney-mage, the
individual sequences with Zifnab were hilarious, IMHO.  But they
didn't really fit in with the rest of the story.  There was no
apparent reason for a Dragonlance character to be waltzing in and
out of a seemingly completely unconnected story.

However, it does seem that they're aiming at making some larger
point in the series, and that the Zifnab character might be
instrumental in making it, later on.  Its rather obvious that the
point is that there _is_ a higher power than the Sartans and the
Patryns, given the experiences of Aberrach, which the Sartans and
the patryns have forgotten.  Indeed, W&H have been dropping hints
left and right about things of that nature all through the
series.  Cases in point:

Dragon Wing-- the prologue drops quite a few hints from the mouth
of the Lord of the Nexus.  Haplo is instructed to 'preach the
word' of the Lord of the Nexus, to bring back a disciple, and to
'prepare ye the way.'

Elven Star-- Aside from the fact that the entire book is a
paraphrasing of the Deluge legends, Zifnba at one point looks at
Haplo, who has created food for the refugees, and says something
like, 'multiplying bread and fishes, eh _savior_?'  Zifnab also
told Haplo point blank that he (Haplo) knew virtually nothing of
the real world.

Fire Sea-- If you can't see the references now, you need some
help.  Undead called Lazars?  Three-day waiting periods before
you can raise the dead safely?  C'mon.

Serpent Mage-- I've read it, but I read it very quickly the last
time through.  I'm going to fetch the book from home, though,
this weekend and reread it.  I'm sure there are suitable
references, probably a good bit more blatant than those of the
previous books.

I just hope they tie everything together properly.  I'll be
really irritated if they don't.
--
"Beauracracy defends the status quo long past the time when the
quo has lost its status."
		-- Lawrence J. Peter
John S. Novak, III		darknite@camelot.bradley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: rsholmes@rodan.syr.EDU (Rich Holmes)
Subject: Re: McCaffrey advice
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written,talk.bizarre,misc.test
In-reply-to: jsa5+@andrew.cmu.edu's message of 15 Aug 92 18:27:24 GMT
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 15:45:30 EDT

In article <oeXImAi00io=QOwPRi@andrew.cmu.edu> jsa5+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joshua M. Sabloff) writes:

>DragonFlight is the first book of the original (and best) series.  I'm
>no McCaffrey fan, but she IS above average.

Above average what? Above average fourth-graders?

How about beneath contempt?


--
Inspected by number 23

No.  It's the Southern Cross, a constellation visible in Australia but
not in North America.

sheesh.

It's a 'G' cleff(sp?) or something to that effect... I do know that
it's a musical marking, but it's been several years since I've laid
eyes on a sheet of music...  perhaps some others can be more helpful..

  Actually, it is a two word message in a Runic alphabet.
Unfortunately, Germanic runes had several variants (early vs. later
Anglo-Saxon vs. later Scandinavian Runes), and Tolkien produced
several additional variants, so it's not that easy to decipher.  But I
make out something like "IAHN RISTI".  Don't ask me what that means...