From: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola)
Subject: Re: Why Macs are better (and the others aren't) (long)
Reply-To: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 03:35:03 GMT

John L. Coolidge writes
> >And obviously, NeXT does not compete in the market niche where the  
> >Performas are.  But at the high end, NeXT has a significant  
> >price/performance advantage over macs:
> 
> >Mac IIci (25MHz 68030) 5/80 + 12" mono display: $3111
> >NeXTstation (25MHz 68040) 8/105 (incl 17" mono display) $3150.
> 
> Might as well throw this one out. The Performa 600 (which should
> compete nicely with a IIci, especially if you don't do lots of
> floating point or if you install a FPU) should be about $2700 with
> a mono display AND a CD-ROM.
> 
Once it ships, and if that is the price, then yes, the Performa 600  
will be an attractive package.  But it'll still be a 68030 and its  
display probably won't be 17" at that price.  So there's a trade-off  
to be made: a good system at one price, or a better system at a  
higher price.  (or you could also consider PCs: a worse system at  
lower price :-).  People will make that tradeoff depending on their  
needs and budget.


> >Quadra 700 (25MHz 68040) 4/80 + 12" mono display: $4245
> >Quadra 950 (33MHz 68040) 8/230 + 12" mono display: $5107
> >NeXtstation turbo (33MHz 68040) 8/250 (incl 17" display) $3851
> 
> NeXT wins this one, but barely (I've seen Q700s street for less
> than $4245 with display -- edu should be better). Note that,
> at least at U. of Illinois, the $3851 price did not include a
> keyboard or NeXTStep (at all -- you HAD to buy it separately,
> or so the computer store people and their price sheet claimed).
> 

Your store people were wrong.  You cannot buy a NeXT without  
NeXTSTEP.  It is included in every price that I've ever seen.  I  
don't think there's even a part number in the NeXT catalog for  
NeXTSTEP per se (as opposed to upgrades from earlier versions).
It is true that sometimes the keyboard is listed separately.  In any  
case, I hardly think that `barely' is the word.  The Q700 is roughly  
in the same class at the non-turbo NeXTStation, so that's $4245 vs  
$3151 (stanford edu prices).  I listed the non-Turbo NeXTstation  
against the IIci to make the point that for barely more money you'd  
get a lot more computer.  To compare like with like, put the Q950  
against the NeXTstation Turbo, and you'll see that NeXT wins, and not  
just 'barely.'

[Advantages of the NeXT]
>B.	Display PostScript.  What you see on the screen is really
>	what you get, since the screen and printer imaging are the 
>	same (except for resolution differences).  None of the 
>	Quickdraw/PS inconsistencies you see on the mac.  In Adobe 
>	Illustrator, I can edit directly in view mode; I don't have 
>	to switch back and forth to see what I'm going to get.
 
> I see inconsistencies on the Mac? You're right -- there is 
> some (small) benefit to having the same imaging model on 
> the printer as on the screen.

> On the other hand, DPS is a PIG! It's amazing that a Mac 
> IIci visably outperforms a 25MHz '040 NeXT, especially 
> given that the NeXT is only doing 2 bits deep while the 
> IIci is doing 8 bits. But DPS is a real pig, and you pay 
> for that occasional bit of graphics consistency.

'Visibly outperforms' i'd say is another exageration, but yes, you're  
right, you pay a price for high-quality display.  Then again, if what  
you really want is sheer raw speed, you can always go run a DOS app  
on a fast 486 :-)

--
-
Stefano Pagiola
Food Research Institute, Stanford University
spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (NeXTMail encouraged)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy