HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.)
Subject: Re: FOCA: And I quote.....
Organization: University of Houston Administrative Computing
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:07:12 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20


> In article <1992Aug18.194600.15777@ncsu.edu> dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
> > In article <1992Aug18.143553.466@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> 
> > decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz) writes:
> > 
> > >dsh@zeus.csc.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
> > >>garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) writes:
> > >>>john@anasazi.com writes:
> > 
> > >>>> Hmmm... that's odd. I heard a PRO-CHOICE advocate state that 1% of
> > >>>> abortions in the US are in the 3rd trimester. These must be very
> > >>>> busy and rich doctors.
> > 
> > >>> That's *less* than 1%.  
> > 
> > >> The annual number of abortions performed at 21 weeks and after tends
> > >> to number in the thousands.  Percentages always make the numbers look 
> > >> smaller than people might realize.  That's because there are millions
> > >> of abortions performed every year. 

  About 1.3% of abortions took place at >21 weeks of gestation in women over
18 yrs of age (1988).  Given about 1.3 million abortions in 1988, that's over
13,000 abortions post 21 weeks.  

  The 1.3% figure is based on data collected from 11 states.

--Centers for Disease Control Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, July 1991
--Vital Statistics of the US, 1988. Vol. II-- Mortality.
--all figures are for 1988

  A bit much for those 3 doctors someone else mentioned, unless a LOT of
abortions occur between 21 and 24 weeks, because:

  A pregnancy lasts about 9 months, which is about 36 weeks.  3rd trimester 
should thus be considered to be about 6 months, or 24 weeks.

  AND, 12,000 abortions annually (rounded for simplicity) is 4000 annually
for each.  Assuming 2-week vacations for these doctors, that's 80 abortions
per week for 50 weeks.  Given a 5-day work week, that's 16 per day.  Even with
a seven day week, that's over 11 a day, or more that 1 per hour given an 8-hour
work day.

  That's a lot, especially when you consider I rounded the numbers DOWN.  So
either there's a lot fewer abortions post 21 weeks or a lot more doctors.


semper fi,

Jammer Jim Miller 
Texas A&M University '89 and '91
********************************************************************************
* Aggie in Cougarland -- I just work here.				       *
* Speak for my employers?  They don't even know I exist!		       *
*"Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing System."*
*             *********************************************		       *
* "Power finds its way to those who take a stand.  Stand up, Ordinary Man."    *
*      ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mark Levine: Triumph 		               *
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)
Subject: Re: L. L. BEAN & CONSERVATISM...
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 11:53:27 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.162213.28752@csus.edu> chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney) writes:
> By the way, conservatives have, since Abraham Lincoln, recognized the value
> of human life. Their push to restore fetal personhood and rights is
> consistent with their battle with Democrats who fought hard to keep African
> Americans declared "non-persons."

Again we see the ignorance of this git.  At the time of Abraham
Lincoln, the term "conservative" would have retained a bit of
its original flavor, and not simply become a synonym for
"Republican."  Abraham Lincoln was far from a conservative.
For example, he was one of the young politicians who left
the Whig party and formed the Republican party.  This is not
a conservative action, but a radical action.  In addition, he
was a major contributor to the abolition of slavery.  Hardly
a conservative action that, but rather a radical one.

The assertion about Democrats is the basest of tripe.  There were
both Democrats and Republicans who supported slavery.  Some of the
largest supporters of slavery were the clergy.  The clergy is
rarely noted for being radical.

There is no length to which this liar of a Chahallney will not
go to enhance his reputation as a purveyor of falsehood.

Dean Kaflowitz
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)
Subject: Re: Revised consistency check
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 12:01:36 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.004113.20978@csus.edu> chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney) writes:
> In article <1992Aug11.130408.17310@menudo.uh.edu> HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.) writes:
> >
> >  Allow me to state that the views expressed by the very strange and sad
> >Mr. Chaney in no way reflect the views of the rest of the more rational
> >members of the pro-life movement, which I'm sure I fall into somewhere.
> 
> Sad? Lessee... I have to reach pretty far back a few years to find my
> last sad experience. 
> 
> My point was, how could the pro-aborts on this net possibly, as bad as
> they think, feel, much less talk, about you and I in general, tolerate
> similar attitudes in their own house? 

Nobody addresses Jim Miller in the same fashion as they address
you, Challhaney.  Mr Miller has impressed me so far by being
thoughtful and intelligent and not just out to get attention.
Dennis Chaney, however, is just out to get attention.

Your attempts to include Mr Miller with yourself, after he
specifically (and, I think, in a display of intelligence which
by itself does so) disassociated himself from your views, are
laughable, and show just how off the wall and ridiculous you
are.

The thread involving your "inheritance" and your "disowned"
brother and such are sad matters indeed.  You stink of greed
there.  I find anyone gloating about their prospective inheritance
to be disgusting and sad and greedy.  I especially find it so
when it involves a gleeful undercurrent over the disinheritance
of one's own brother.  No indications there of loving your brother
in spite of his behavior on your or their parts.  Not that he
necessarily deserves it, but it doesn't make it any less sad
if he doesn't deserve your or your parents' love.

It does sound like a dysfunctional family to me, despite your
denials.  How else would one describe a family where one child
is so rebellious that he is thrown from the house, where the
other is delighted at the thought because it means more money
for him, where that last one also expresses his fears about
not getting his parents' money when they die, where that
last one again spends his time screaming for attention on a
computer network, and where through it all we catch the scent
of controlling parents and terrible communication throughout
the family.

All very sad.

Dean Kaflowitz

Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger)
Subject: Re: Another good reason to vote for Bush
Reply-To: dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:59:24 GMT

In article <og33a8g@fido.asd.sgi.com> 
cj@sgi.com (C J Silverio) writes:

> This morning's news had a lovely story about Bush's reactions
> to a question about how he'd react if a grandchild of his sought
> an abortion.  In his reply, he said that the woman was the only
> one who could decide, ultimately.

I heard he said that he would try to talk them out of getting an
abortion.  That's the best a father could do, considering that
abortion on demand is legal in all 50 states.  

On a side note, the radio station that I was listening to referred 
to the pro-life movement as the "anti-choice" movement.  Media bias
strikes again.  Ah well, it's about time that I switched to another 
radio station.

>cj@eno.wpd.sgi.com	C J Silverio/Brahms Gang/Berkeley CA 94720


Doug Holtsinger

Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney)
Subject: Ling's "attack" goes << CLUNK >>  
Keywords: bombs w/o warheads.  
Organization: California State University: Sacramento
Distribution: world 
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 19:04:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.001227.14662@cs.uow.edu.au> u9147063@cs.uow.edu.au (Richard Barry Ling) writes:

[ Useless dud joke deleted. ] 

>________________________________
>Richard.  u9147063@cs.uow.edu.au


===============================================================================
Question: If you don't have truck bombs and thousands of fanatics to
	  sacrifice their lives and drive them, how do you scare a 
	  nation into giving in to your demands?

Answer:   Buy coat hangers and encourage women to kill themselves
	  with them and call yourself "pro-choice".
===============================================================================
===============================================================================
BBBBBB     OOOOOOOO   SSSSSSS   SSSSSSS    Founder: Steve Chaney 
B    B     O      O   S         S          <chaneysa@nextnet.ccs.csus.edu> 
BBBBBBBB   O     OO   SSSSSSS   SSSSSSS    
BB     B   O     OO        SS        SS    Borg Operating 
BBBBBBBB O OOOOOOOO O SSSSSSS O SSSSSSS O  Space Systems, Revision 2.0 

	       The B.O.S.S. does not speak for CSUS. 

Alias Borgie Boy, the BorgBarian, Inturdgent, Propeller Boy, and other
scornful names heaped upon me during my lifetime...
Xref: sparky talk.abortion:32276 alt.flame:12168
From: chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.flame
Subject: Re: without even being asked ....
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:57:26 GMT
Organization: California State University: Sacramento

In article <lefty-170892182532@lefty.apple.com> lefty@apple.com (Lefty) writes:
>In article <1992Aug15.195147.7565@csus.edu>, chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu
>(Stephen A Chaney) advises Steve Novak:
>> 
>> But I admit; if I keep sinking down to your mentality, I'll be
>> irrelevant to intellegent discussion here, too. Excuse me while I pull
>> myself up from your level...  
>
>First, you couldn't "sink" to Mr. Novak's level if you were tied to the
>Goodyear blimp.

Nope. You've got it wrong. To reach Novak's level, I'd need to go a
few feet below hell itself. And then I'd be standing right over your
head. 

>Second, you have always been irrelevant to "intellegent" discussion here.

And when you blow your smoke, I'll do as Reagan said and follow
Clinton's advice: DON'T INHALE. 

===============================================================================
			Robert Casey for President '96! 
			 This Casey never strikes out.
===============================================================================
===============================================================================
BBBBBB     OOOOOOOO   SSSSSSS   SSSSSSS    Founder: Steve Chaney 
B    B     O      O   S         S          <chaneysa@nextnet.ccs.csus.edu> 
BBBBBBBB   O     OO   SSSSSSS   SSSSSSS    
BB     B   O     OO        SS        SS    Borg Operating 
BBBBBBBB O OOOOOOOO O SSSSSSS O SSSSSSS O  Space Systems, Revision 2.0 

	       The B.O.S.S. does not speak for CSUS. 

Alias Borgie Boy, the BorgBarian, Inturdgent, Propeller Boy, and other
scornful names heaped upon me during my lifetime...
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: T I F A T T S P and Apology to Suzanne
From: mcbeanb@brandonu.ca
Date: 22 Aug 92 12:15:21 CST
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

In article <1992Aug21.200421.22729@spdc.ti.com>, serafin@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Mike Serafin) writes:
> I would like to make a few comments off the subject now.  By posting my
> opinions on the subject of abortion I fully expected the flames that might come
> my way.  I did, however, expect that the persons participating in these
> newsgroups would not be so childish as to resort to nonsensical and personal
> attacks.  

[...]

Well, I guess this makes it obvious you didn't read t.a. at all before
posting to it.

So does this mean that you will not listen to anyone enraged by your
opinions, even though they have valid reasons for criticizing your
beliefs?  Are you saying that you won't listen to reason from these
people even though they may very well lead you to alter your position
for yourself?  If you are, then I must say that's a very close minded
attitude.  If you don't like the personal attcks, then ignore them, and
get to the meat of what the attackers are saying.  

As I have said before, we are dealing with a very persoanl issue, and
people *will* tend to get extremely emotional.  There's no way around it.

On this note, I would like to apologize to Suzanne for replying to
her articles with a tone of anger.  Suzanne and I have opinions and
values which are quite different, and I find it difficult not to
get a little hot under the collar when we discuss these differences.
I can't say that it won't happen again, but I can say I'm sorry for
being this way.

Brian McBean  -  McBeanB@BrandonU.Ca
From: chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Revised consistency check
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:36:59 GMT
Organization: City of Saint Paul Public Works

dsh@odin.ece.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
> chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman) writes:
>> dsh@odin.ece.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:

>>> [.. out of context quote deleted ..]

>> How does it feel being the target of your own tactics?

> I've never quoted you or anyone else out of context.

Liar.  What about Bill Clinton?  Adrienne Regard?  The Supreme Court?

>>> You're a sexist for believing that all women think alike on the issue
>>> of abortion.

>> You are not fooling anyone.

> Neither are you.

No, I'm not fooling anyone.  Unlike you, I'm not trying to fool anyone.

-- 
Chris Lyman  -  email: chrisl@pwcs.stpaul.gov  -  #include <std.disclaimers.h>
"... all women think alike on the issue of abortion ..." -- Doug Holtsinger
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran)
Subject: Re: Minutes of ba.t.a committee meeting
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 00:22:36 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.171459.12470@advtech.uswest.com> steven@jaynes ( Steve Novak) writes:
>> = (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran) writes:
>>> = (Eric Rescorla) writes:
>
>>>Rule 2) Novak + Cochran WILL be made to come out to California for
>>>a visit, under penalty of being sued by DJR.
>
>>Where's Cupertino in relation to LA?
>>
>>Hey Steve!  How about it?
>
>It would be a blast.  'Specially if it was _cold here_ when we left.

True.  Very true.  Say, January, 1993?
--
=kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu | B(0-4) c- d- e++ f- g++ k(+) m r(-) s++(+) t | TSAKC=
=My thoughts, my posts, my ideas, my responsibility, my beer, my pizza.  OK???=
="I want a man, who will, lay down beside me.  I want a man, who will stand up=
=to me too.  That's what I like about you." -Trisha Yearwood, talking about me=
Xref: sparky talk.abortion:32438 alt.flame:12184
From: lefty@apple.com (Lefty)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.flame
Subject: More Bleating From the Borg
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:35:04 GMT
Organization: Our Lady of Heavy Artillery

In article <1992Aug19.014045.16007@csus.edu>, chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu
(Stephen A Chaney) wrote:
> 
> In article <lefty-170892101250@lefty.apple.com> lefty@apple.com (Lefty) writes:
> 
> [ More yelping from a blast crater left after that devastating attack by
> Steve Franklin, deleted. ]

Which devastating attack was that?  It must not have propagated here yet,
but I'm certainly looking forward to seeing whether Mr. Franklin is capable
of writing at anything exceeding a grade school level.

You, on the other hand, seem to feel that you've accomplished something by
running away at high speed while yelling back over your shoulder, "I'm
victorious, dammit!"

I suspect the bulk of readers are not so easily deceived by you as _you_
are.

> Lefty, you remind me of Saddam Hussein as he, like you, still claims
> victory in a battle in which you clearly have been annihilated.  

Hmm.  _You_ remind _me_ of some witless geek kid who sailed onto USENET a
while back and immediately and repeatedly made a complete fool of himself. 
He posted a lot of drivel, made inept attempts at forgery, lied, got caught
at it, lied again, got caught _again_, made believe he was a jet plane and
a space alien...

Oh, wait.  That was _you_.

Never mind.

--
Lefty (lefty@apple.com)
C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman)
Subject: Re: Abortion: What does God say?
Organization: City of Saint Paul Public Works
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:47:54 GMT

warren@pws.ma30.bull.com (Warren Lavallee) writes:

[--lots and lots deleted--]

> I have seen, and have the video called Hard Truth.

> It has no voice over.  There is music during the scenes.  It's about
> 5 minutes long.  I showed it to my fiancee, and she lasted about 2 seconds
> before she burst into tears, and asked me to turn it off.

> The opening seen was something like tongs pulling out what seems to be 
> a roundish hunk of flesh, but then it turns a little, and you can see the
> eyes, a nose, and a mouth.  There is blood everywhere.

> If you haven't actually seen what the "choice" is in pro-choice, I think
> you should.  It will change your life.

If abortion is murder, doesn't that mean that 'Hard Truth' is snuff porn?

Or do people like you say 'abortion is murder' just because it sounds good?
 
[--lots more deleted--]

-- 
Chris Lyman  -  email: chrisl@pwcs.stpaul.gov  -  #include <std.disclaimers.h>
 "A conservative government is an organized hypocrisy." -- Benjamin Disraeli
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: E-mail, privacy, and reality
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:48:47 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense) writes:

>This was originally under the Revised... thread. I've extracted it as
>most probably don't want to read chaney and responses to him, or wade
>through 100s of lines for one important (maybe) bit of info.

>In talk.abortion, bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense) writes:

>@I've got some real eye-opening news for you. There is no such thing
>@as private e-mail. It can be read at any number of points in the net
>@by those with high enough levels of access. How do I know this? Because
>@I've had some mail intercepted by a third party at an intermediate portion
>@of the path and printed. The intended receiver of this e-mail has seen
>@the printed copy thereof, and, as a matter of fact, caused them much
>@trouble, as it turned out that although the company had USENET access,
>@the employees were not allowed to send and receive e-mail or read news
>@groups or use 'talk' or 'phone'. Yes, they even had printed transcripts
>@of real time 'talk/phone' sessions. Something you'd think was really
>@private and hard to do.

Speaking as someone with the necessary access, this is all too easy to do.
It is a fairly simple matter to configure the mail software to print copies
of email or silently route it to a third party.  With some programming, you
can intercept the 'talk' or 'phone' messages.  For me it's easier.  I have
some network debugging equipment that will do exactly this.

So, Ron is right.  There is no such thing as totally private mail or
communication.  It can be intercepted farily trivially.

And finally, if you save stuff to mail folders on your employers machine,
they generally have a legal right to read it...it is their machine...

 -Steve
--
 The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                        -------------------
     adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
     Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558
From: roby@chopin.udel.edu (Scott W Roby)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: L. L. BEAN & CONSERVATISM...
Date: 19 Aug 92 22:43:38 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <1992Aug17.162245.28831@csus.edu> chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney) writes:
>
>help us send the killers to jail. Permanently. As in "Hasta la vista,
>baby." (Words from a pro-life actor, can you believe that?)

Who was that other poster that made such a big deal out of 
Arnie being pro-life??  Oh, yeah,  I remember!   :-)   :-)



-- 
Scott W. Roby           *This sentence no verb.*      "No Matter where you go..
Phys.& Astr.Dept.    ///// / /  /  *|*  \  \ \ \\\\\      there you are!"
Univ.of Delaware    ((((( ( (  (  * + *  )  ) ) )))))   -> Buckaroo Banzai
roby@brahms.udel.edu \\\\\ \ \  \  *|*  /  / / /////   *Standard Disclaimer*
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.)
Subject: Re: Some effects of Pregnancy
Organization: University of Houston Administrative Computing
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:25:10 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <1992Aug20.211222.11953@noao.edu> forgach@noao.edu writes:

> From article by HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.):
> > 
> >   Well, as promised (but a little late, sorry) here's what I found on the
> > effects of pregnancy.  It is mostly physical.  The primary source is *Under-
> > standing Pregnancy and Childbirth* by Sheldon Cherry, M.D., copyright 1973,
> > revised editions 1983 and 1992.  My own comments will be enclosed in brackets,
> > [like so].  Pardon the occasional misspelling.  Let us begin:
> 
> Very to the point and factual, Jimmers, but you left out the ONE most important
> "effect" of pregnancy.   A child is born.   Your son or daughter.  Who exhibits
> a very definite preference for his/her mother, over all other people, as soon
> as he/she is born.   The ensuing relationship between parents and child, if
> allowed to flower as the child grows to adulthood, will be probably _the_
> most fulfilling activity parents will undertake in their entire lives.
> 
> SF.

  Well, I also left out that you could die.  But that, along with the child
being born, is I think, something we all pretty much know by now! :-)


semper fi,

Jammer Jim Miller 
Texas A&M University '89 and '91
********************************************************************************
* Aggie in Cougarland -- I just work here.				       *
* Speak for my employers?  They don't even know I exist!		       *
*"Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing System."*
*             *********************************************		       *
* "Power finds its way to those who take a stand.  Stand up, Ordinary Man."    *
*      ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mark Levine: Triumph 		               *
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Observations
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 05:54:45 GMT
Reply-To: margoli@watson.IBM.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In  <1992Aug21.012139.5851@cfctech.cfc.com>  kevin@cfctech.cfc.com (Kevin Darcy) writes:
>
> Reproductive organs don't need to be justified.

They do if you want to deduct them as an entertainment expense.  :-)

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
Xref: sparky talk.abortion:32108 alt.birthright:411 alt.abortion.inequity:3137