Organization: Virginia Department of Health
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:07:53 EST
From:         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: the myth of the Father

I started to reply to a post and then realized that other lists had posted
similar questions. This reply was to the use of "Father of our Country"
and "Founding Fathers" somehow giving a "religious reference" to the
people in my "Christian Nation" posts. Because it seems to apply to more
than just the one list, I'm sending to the other lists as well. On to
my original reply....
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A new religion is born every minute I guess, and I can hardly keep ahead
of this PC Stuff.

I'm ever so sorry for the capitalization of "Father of our Country" and
"Founding Fathers", but when a name was given to a group, I always thought
it should be capitalized. My Linda told me we have the books on grammer
and structure, but I'll let someone else look up the actual rules...

I'll try a small "corrected segment" and see if I'm doing any better.

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    GW looked at the revolution, so completely different from the
American Revolution, and all the innocent life that was lost, and all the
blood that was shed, and he said "Don't ever let that view of morality
come to America. Don't ever think that we can be moral apart from
religious principle. Let us with caution indulge the supposition
that morality can be maintained without religion. What ever
may be conceded to the influence of refined educational minds. What
ever you think schools can do, what ever you think they can teach,
reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national
morality can prevail an exclusion of religious principle."
                         George Washington,
Simply a man, no saint mind you, but was called the "father of our country"
and was one of those called the "founding fathers". These titles simply
meant that they had something to do with the creation of the government
of the united states. The country's not that much, but we wish to at least
let "you" know that the people of those days had given them some minor
recognition.

   Let it also be known that the term "father" used in both terms in no ways
specifies that any member of these parties had a saving knowledge of Jesus
Christ, or what ever your god may be, or that they were in any way connected
to the lineage of the popes in the Roman Catholic Church, or that in any way
they were of linage of any of the 12 apostles.
--------------------- end of attempt at PC ---------------------------------

Like I said, it was what they were called. When I was at ER Carpenter and
got a humorous name tag, it said "Corporate Hot Shot", and it was capitalized
because it was a name they tried to hang on me.

If I was doing an article on something and a title is mentioned, I thought
it should be capitalized. As in the back of "A Worthy Company" by ME
Bradford, "In an exciting journey into the past, A Worthy Company looks
at our Founders..." "Founders" is capitalized. They are also called
"Framers" and that is capitalized.

From "Man of Prayer and Courage: George Washington" the last page reads
  "What set Washington apart from other men? His great talents were
guided by God in war and as President. In presidential duties Washington
proclaimed that he would do "what my conscience informed me was right,
as it respected my God, my country, and myself." As always he had put
God first.
  Nelly Custis best summarized her grandfather's Christian testimony.
She said, "His life, his writings, prove that he was a Christian. He
was not one of those who act or pray, 'That they may be seen of men.'
He communed with his God in secret."
   The new Federal City was built up the river from Mount Vernon. But
the name was changed to Washington. It is a monument for all time to
honor George Washington's life and work."

Yes, I know he was no saint, but are any of us? I know that we are not
to hold men up over God, but it seems in this day and age that we
simply can not have any heroes. That ALL men are crap, there are no
heroes, and we only get by because we are lucky, because there are
simply no examples out there.

I know "Christian Nation" may be a "bad" term to use, but I see nothing
wrong with it. People were called "Christians" because they tried to live
like Christ, be like Christ. "Christian Nation" says to me that people
wanted to rule a country as they thought Jesus might set up a country.
Granted, Jesus would set up a dictatorship, but with Jesus in charge, that
would be just fine. But without Jesus sitting in the White House, and
knowing that, they tried to come up with something they thought He would
bless and help to work. I see that as something to commend. Sometimes the
criticism makes me think that even now we should make a law that any
Christian can NOT hold office, but only those with no beliefs. If we had
some actual writings, and I do, which I may want to read and post from,
I think we'd find a government with far less scandal and far more concern
for the people.

I know we hear "Yea, but they had slavery..." Paul told Oneisemus(sp) to
go back to his owner, both being Christian now, and that he was to serve
his master. And how about us? Are we free? I mean we go to work when we
please, we go home when we please, and do what we like. And of course we
are not slaves, we can easily go 1-4 weeks without pay, and we don't care
if we get fired tomorrow. We're free. The old Amway slogan of a job being
a "ball and chain". VDH went through a 3 year wage freeze. Of course I
was "free" to go look for another job. I guess I can only say "Lighten
Up." There were some slaves that were mistreated, but some were not. How
different is this from the "slave labor" of the old sweat shops? How
different for those who worked with asbestos not knowing the danger?
How different from the POW's we left behind?

The back of this last book has the following quotes by other people who
I am sure are no angels, or what ever.... (being PC anyhow...)

"...we are desperately in need of inspiring Christian models with which
our young people can identify." - James Dobson.

"Our young people need heroes to follow of the caliber exemplified in the
Mott Media Sowers Series of World Heroes." - Tim LaHaye.

It almost makes one feel that "Why bother living a Godly life? I'm sure in
the years that follow such as Billy Graham, they will look on him as 'no
saint' or the like." Fortunately, we don't live Godly lives for the sake
of the world. Jesus did say that if the world didn't respect Him, they
would not respect us.

Please, knowing how easily we can be misunderstood, this is not pointed to
anyone in particular, but to society in general. Peace to one and all.

In His Love,

  Michael A. Kline, Sr. SSE
  "Know God, Know Peace"                  "No God, No Peace"
  "Champions are not men who never failed, but men who never quit"
                                          Ed Kole
  "I didn't vote for Clinton...."
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