HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brady@lgc.com (W. Brady Reed)
Subject: Recumbent Safety
Summary: Recumbent bicycle safety
Keywords: bicycle recumbent safety
Organization: Landmark Graphics Corp., Houston, Tx.
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:29:52 GMT


I recently purchased a recumbent bicycle because they offered comfort
without sacrificing speed.  Doing research into the area, I was surprised
to find out that recumbent bicycles were reborn in the late 60's (I think)
because of research done for a safer bicycle.  

I am a little foggy, but I think the story went like this:  Some guy at
MIT had friends that had been killed by over-the-handlebar accidents.  He
developed a bike that made this scenio less likely.  I believe this guy
went on to market the Avatar recumbent bicycle.

Before I bought my own recumbent, I had many friends that warned me how
low and unsafe these bikes were.  Motorists would not see me well.  Actually,
my head is only a few inches lower than the head of some bicyclist on the
drops.  At night, I use three flashing LED rear lights and a 15 watt
headlight.

Cars seems to always give me a wide distance when passing.  I think this
is because of the novelty of my bike.  Now that I have about 800 miles of
mostly commuting in Houston traffic, I feel that motorists see me at least
as well as any bicyclist.  I also feel safer being lower to the ground.

I took a little spin on my old diamond frame bike last weekend and felt that
I was walking on stilts, the bike seemed so high off the ground.

I ride a Rans Stratus B, with a 67 inch wheelbase and upright handlebars.

Brady

+--------------------------------------------------+
| InterNet     : breed@lgc.com (Brady Reed)        |
| Office Phone : 713.560-1269                      |
| Office Fax   : 713.560-1277                      |--------------------------
| Telex        : 750203 LNDMARK HOU UD             |            @
+--------------------------------------------------+        .__/\---+\
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| Framework Engineering, Database Technology Group |        \__/     ' (*) 
| 333 Cypress Run             Houston, Texas 77094 |--------------------------
+--------------------------------------------------+



                                    
                                    
                                    
                                                                              

                                                                          
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: elr@trintex.uucp (Ed Ravin)
Subject: Re: Politics of Cycling Speed
Organization: Prodigy Services Co.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:51:25 GMT

In article <71670@cup.portal.com> JForester@cup.portal.com (John - Forester) writes:
>   In the discussion of fear by cyclists of traffic, Michael
>Smith talks up the religously environmentalist view [...]

Holy hex keys, Batman!  Forester has run out of rational arguments so
he's accusing his respondents of being environmentalists!

>Yes, Neil, I frequently ride El
>Camino, Mathilda, and Sunnyvale-Saratoga at any time of day or
>night, and often ride Maude, Middlefield, Arques, Lawrence, San
>Antonio, Foothill, Page Mill, and other main arterials, without a
>trace of fear.

Move over Spike Bike -- it's the Super-Effective Cyclist on the roll!
While the environmentalists cringe on the shoulder, Forester is all caution
but no fear as he effortlessly sweeps into the left-turn lane!  Only self-
hating cyclists can't mix with traffic!  Faster than a Dutch commuter --
more hardheaded than a Bell helmet -- able to merge into traffic with a
single hand signal -- muscles of steel -- lungs of iron (good thing, too,
with all the riding in traffic he does) -- S-E Cyclist pedals, on, triumphant!

-- 
Ed Ravin- elr@trintex.uucp| I like to think (and the sooner the better!)
  elr%trintex@uunet.uu.net| Of a cybernetic meadow where mammals and computers
           +1-914-993-4737| Live together in mutually programming harmony
my opinions, nobody else's| Like pure water touching clear sky.  -R. Brautigan
From: JForester@cup.portal.com (John - Forester)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Politics of Cycling Speed
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 16:18:56 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

   In the discussion of fear by cyclists of traffic, Michael
Smith talks up the religously environmentalist view that, when
cycling, we should fear being hit by cars because that would
"den[y] the existence of a significant social problem, namely our
grotesque overreliance on cars, with all the evils that cars
bring in their train -- waste, pollution, sprawl...." Call these
factors whatever you like, and hate cars for whatever character-
istics you dislike, but these factors have nothing to do with
traffic accidents or with the fear of traffic accidents by
cyclists, except in one way. Smith's statement demonstrates the
congruence that I have described between fear of traffic and
environmentalism; environmentalists feel an exaggerated fear of
car-bike collisions because they hate traffic to start with.

   Neil J. Cherry asks whether I ride without fear on particular
roads that both he and I know. Yes, Neil, I frequently ride El
Camino, Mathilda, and Sunnyvale-Saratoga at any time of day or
night, and often ride Maude, Middlefield, Arques, Lawrence, San
Antonio, Foothill, Page Mill, and other main arterials, without a
trace of fear. For that matter, I take my cycling classes out on
El Camino at noon rush hour, to make about ten left turns in a
row for practice. While I have not cycled in Neil's home state of
New Jersey for forty years (I was in the Oranges and Bloomfield
then), I have cycled much in the urban areas of Massachussetts
(which you and I agree has the worst drivers in the U.S.),
Virginia, Maryland, District of Columbia, Delaware, Pennsylvania.
U.S. 1 before the freeway age was heavily overcrowded, probably
more than today. I have cycled U.S. 50 between Dulles and
Washington at morning and evening rush hours, and in and out on
U.S. 1 in morning rush hour. My lack of fear comes from
knowledge, not the drugs that Neil alleges. Neil, I don't take
drugs, I drink only a little and when I do I neither drive nor
ride. 

   Since I have survived all these years with only 2 car-bike
collisions (one open door, one left-turning car, both on arterial
streets), I have survived much longer than Neil says I should.

   The words of both Smith and Cherry show an exaggerated fear of
traffic; in Smith's case it is for a purpose as well as inadver-
tently. 

JForester@cup.portal.com                John Forester
                                        726 Madrone Ave
408-734-9426                            Sunnyvale CA 94086 USA
From: mack@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Gregg Mack ( Sun ))
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Anti-cyclist police in Houston
Date: 12 Dec 92 15:13:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: oakhill.1992Dec12.151303.13961
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin, Texas

>> Howard.Gerber@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Howard Gerber) writes:

>> in ...Houston, vehicular riding singles you out for victimization 
>> by anti-cycling motorists and law enforcement officers.
>>
>> I was stopped and threatened by a Harris Country Constable Deputy.
>> I have already gone through the whole chain of command from the mayor
>> down to the head of the Police Training Academy in dealing with such 
>> actions and now I have to do the same with the [mostly anti-cycling] 
>> county government.

John Ciccarelli suggests:

>1) Contact the Texas Bicycle Coalition (tbc@igc.apc.org) and get some help.
>I hear the guy who founded TBC served in the state legislature.

You can contact Charles Gandy, Executive Director of the TBC, by calling
him directly at (512) 476-7433.  His office is here in Austin.  The
Secretary for the TBC lives in Houston.  Try contacting Joanna Bassett
at (713) 782-1661.  Her office is at 3600 Jeanetta, Suite 1604, Houston.

Three of the TBC Directors also live in Houston. Contact:
Ann Baird (713) 622-0934
Lee Mixon (713) 952-5761
Raul Pena (713) 729-8745

Please CALL them!  The slogan for the TBC is "Advocating the advancement
of bicycling access, safety, and education - the voice of the bicycling
community in Texas".


-- 
Gregg Mack                  ---------- __o       __o       __o       __o
gmack@paceline.sps.mot.com  -------- _`\<,_    _`\<,_    _`\<,_    _`\<,_
Motorola RISC uProcessors   ------- (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)
Austin, Texas  USA          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Ballantine on safety [Long]
Date: 18 Dec 92 18:14:14 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Dec16.174059.14888@trintex.uucp> elr@trintex.uucp (Ed Ravin) writes:
>Meanwhile, a bill has been introduced in City Council that would allow
>the cops to confiscate a bicycle for any traffic offense.  It has 30
>co-sponsers.

This is really scary -- though to be honest I'd welcome such a law if they
substituted "vehicle" for "bicycle" and enforced it fairly.

Ed: it's a lot to ask, but could you keep us posted on this one, or at least
provide pointers to ways we can keep ourselves informed?  Such a law stinks
in so many ways, but it's amazing what a majority can get away with.
-- 
****************************************************************************
Eric House			"My employer doesn't share its opinions with
RAAM in '93?		   	 me, so I can share only mine with you"
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: pardo@cs.washington.edu (David Keppel)
Subject: Re: Ballantine on safety [Long]
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 04:33:00 GMT

"Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com> writes:
>[Autos kill 40-50 thousand people per year in the US.]

I believe that (a) the numbers are slightly higher (b) those are
"direct" deaths and do not include e.g., pollution or manufacture
and maintainance and other indirect deaths and (c) that alcohol is
estimated to be a direct or contributing cause in something on the
order of 30% of the direct deaths.

Sorry, I do not have references, so those should all be taken with
some grains of salt -- even though salt is a health risk.

	;-D on  ( Like salt on the wound )  Pardo
From: Howard.Gerber@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Howard Gerber)
Sender: Jpunix@urchin.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Politics of Cycling Speed
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:01:58 -0500

Neil J. Cherry <ncherry@cbnewsg.cb.att.com>  writes:

 NJ> Well it looks like I got alot to learn then, I don't know if I
would or
 NJ> would not get in the left lane to cross El Camino, but I would
still be
 NJ> nervous about it.

 Neil, you only have three choices: 1) Don't cross El Camino; 2) Turn
left
 from the right lane; or 3) Turn left from the left lane.

 If you're not interested in crossing the street, that's your privilege.
It's
 OK if you just want to sit and watch the cars go by.

 Making a left turn from the right lane is suicide. You wouldn't do it
in
 a car, and you sure wouldn't want 18-wheelers to do it!

 Making a vehicular turn from the right-most left turn lane is the
safest way
 to turn. How you get into the left lane depends on the _relative_
speed
 difference between your bike and other vehicles.

 If the motorists are going less than 15 mph faster than your bike, you
should
 negotiate your lane changes a half a lane at a time, signalling and
looking
 back each time. If the motorists are going more than 15 mph faster than
you,
 you will need to signal, look back, and wait until you can safely cross
all
 the lanes at once. It doesn't matter how fast they are going, it's the
 difference between your speeds that counts.

 NJ> Any tips on how you go about doing it? (Books or maybe I should
join a
 NJ> riding club).

 Yes, take an Effective Cycling class. If you don't know were to find an
EC
 class, contact The League of American Wheelmen, 190 W. Ostend Street,
Suite
 120, Baltimore MD 21230-3755 or call them at (410) 539-3399.

 Second, read John Forester's book, EFFECTIVE CYCLING.

 Third, join a club so that you can learn from experienced cyclists.

 NJ> [P.S. I still think your on drugs. ;-} ]

 Believing that anyone who can perform difficult traffic maneuvers must
have
 magical abilities, be insane or on drugs is all part of what Forester
calls
 the "bicyclist inferiority complex."  The real magic is in learning how
to
 ride your bicycle like any other vehicle operator, and this is a skill
that
 anyone can learn once you get over thinking that bicycles are
automatically
 inferior. Once you learn how to ride your bike on all road, you'll feel
higher
 than you could ever get on drugs.

 As one of the Effective Cycling instructors, I can assure you that
 the EC program works. I wouldn't volunteer so much of my time to this
program
 if I didn't see how well it can improve cycling skills. Take an
Effective
 Cycling course and get your own magic wand.
From: mntneer@ccvax.ucd.ie
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Politics of Cycling Speed
Date: 17 Dec 92 14:57:23 GMT
Organization: University College Dublin

I cannot pretend to imagine the attitude of motorists in the US, but by my 
reckoning, the chances of being hit from behind are the lowest of all possible
bicycle accidents(opening doors being the worst).

So, can anybody give an account of any incident of such an accident.
Incidents in which the cyclist pulled out onto the main road don't count :-)

Ciaran Ruane

Mountaineering Club.
University College, Dublin.		Internet: mntneer@ccvax.ucd.ie
IRELAND.
                                                          ^
       M   M                                              ^ ^
UCD   M M M M  CCC                                       ^   ^   ^
     M   M   MC           UCD MOUNTAINEERING CLUB     ^ ^     ^ ^ ^
    M         C                                      ^         ^   ^
   M           CCC                                  ^               ^
From: karplus@cse.ucsc.edu (Kevin Karplus)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Cycling and Environmentalism
Date: 19 Dec 92 04:00:58 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz (CE/CIS Boards)
NNTP-Posting-Host: ararat.ucsc.edu

Although I agree with most of what John Forester and Les Earnest say,
I want to disagree mildly with one point of Les's:

> Only organizations populated by closet motorheads would advocate more
> bike paths.  They are truly unsafe and a waste of money.

As a person who has refused for the past 22 years (since I was 16) to
get a driver's license, I do not believe that I am a "closet motorhead".

I can think of a few instances when bike paths are appropriate---all
of them where the points being connected are not connected directly by
roads.  I agree that these bike paths are more dangerous (per mile)
than roads are, but if the distance is significantly shorter, I (and
many others) will be willing to take the extra risk in return for the
greater convenience and pleasure of the bike path.  

There is an example of this on the UCSC campus---we have a one-mile
bike path that splits the Great Meadow.  Going around the meadow on
the roads adds between half a mile and a mile to the trip.  For some
trips, the most direct route by road is up a narrow street with
moderately heavy traffic (including buses and construction vehicles).
Since the slope averages over 4%, and gets up to 10%, it is difficult
to ride up it at the speed of traffic, and there is no shoulder.
Although the bike path has a higher accident rate, it is the preferred
route to the western and central parts of campus for almost all
bicyclists, even those who are well aware of the risks.  (The bike
path was made significantly safer this Fall, by re-building a badly
designed bend that caused about half of the total accidents on the
path.)

Another examples on campus: I have been advocating building a 30-foot
long bike path connecting a parking lot by the faculty apartments with
a privately owned parking lot off of Limestone Lane.  This would
provide a direct bicycle connection that is about a mile shorter than
going through the main entrance to campus for people coming up High
Street, and that uses quiet residential streets instead of busy
arterials. (Incidentally, this route is now useable if you don't mind
riding in mud for the short stretch between the parking lots.)

I believe that bicyclists (and pedestrians) should use the most direct
routes available.  Almost all of the time, this means taking the
roads, but when significant shortcuts can be made, then there is
appropriate role for bikepaths.

Kevin Karplus
Effective Cycling Instructor
-- 
Kevin Karplus		karplus@ce.ucsc.edu

Due to budgetary constraints the light at the end of the tunnel is
being turned off.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: ncherry@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (neil j.cherry)
Subject: Re: Politics of Cycling Speed
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:29:01 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.225001.8410@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> seligman@CS.Stanford.EDU (Scott Seligman) writes:
>In article <29609@castle.ed.ac.uk> cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) writes:
>> 
>> There is at least one more important kind of fear in cycling, and that
>> is rational avoidance of something deduced to be dangerous
>
>I wonder how much of this discussion is based on people's differing
>and sometimes unusual definitions of "fear".  I would not call the
>rational minimization of danger "fear".  I would call that "common
>sense".  Fear to me is something that makes yours eyes widen, your
>pulse quicken, your adrenaline flow.  From Webster's 9th: "an
>unpleasant often strong emotion caused by anticipation or awareness of
>danger... anxious concern... reason for alarm".
>
>If you [that's a generic "you" -- I don't mean you, Chris] agree with
>my definition of fear and you fear cycling in traffic, perhaps you
>need to gain more experience and read up on the actual dangers.  If
>you already have experience and still fear riding, then I suppose you
>should give it up.  You're just not cut out for it (unless you enjoy
>fear, I suppose).  The rest of us are hopefully aware of the dangers
>and act appropriately, but we do not live in fear.
>

Well then my use of the word fear is not quite correct. Mine is concern, not
unpleasant, but is reason for alarm if it happens.

But now I have a question on left hand turns. I ride in alot of areas where
traffic zips by me at 40-50 miles an hour (posted limits are 35-45). On my
bike the best I expect to do is 35 mph. If I'm in the slow lane or shoulder
(more likely I'm on the shoulder section) and I need to make a left turn, how
do I proceed to the left lane or left side of the lane? The obvious is to wait
for a break in the traffic. I find that this causes me to come to a stop to
wait for the break in the traffic. So what do I do? Stop and wait or boldly
jump in traffic? 

NJC
From: jepstei@afterlife.ncsc.mil (John Epstein)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Bicycle accident statistics & recumbents
Date: 13 Dec 92 15:24:48 GMT
Organization: The Great Beyond

>An interesting question.  I spoke with a cycling expert (though he does
>not claim to be a safety expert) and native of Holland who believed that
>for falls, helmets are necessary  only for pitchover (over the bar)
>falls.  He maintains that for all other pure falls, broken limbs,
>collarbones, fingers, and scrapes result.
>
>Gary E. Madine, Allentown, PA
>gem@aloft.att.com
>

Having slid down a road at 26 miles per hour (American speed unit) on my side
after hitting a dog, wearing a helmet. I suffered no roadrash to my head, i.e.
I still have two ears. My head weighs about 18 pounds (American weight unit),
your mileage may vary, the road rash was taken by the helmet. All other
pressure points in contact with the road suffered varing degrees of
road rash --- elbow worse as short sleeve bike shirt.
Amazingly enough lycra bike shorts did not abrade --- no road rash on hip.
HELMET, ankle, knee, glove, seat, handle bar tape, shoulder, and shirt abraded.

Wear a helmet, save that 18 pound head!

John
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: tommy@hilbert.att.com (Tom Reingold)
Subject: left turns (was: Politics of Cycling Speed)
Reply-To: tommy@boole.att.com
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:07:14 GMT

ncherry@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (neil j.cherry) writes:

$ [...]
$ But now I have a question on left hand turns. I ride in alot of areas where
$ traffic zips by me at 40-50 miles an hour (posted limits are 35-45). On my
$ bike the best I expect to do is 35 mph. If I'm in the slow lane or shoulder
$ (more likely I'm on the shoulder section) and I need to make a left turn, how
$ do I proceed to the left lane or left side of the lane? The obvious is to wait
$ for a break in the traffic. I find that this causes me to come to a stop to
$ wait for the break in the traffic. So what do I do? Stop and wait or boldly
$ jump in traffic? 

By boldly do you mean stupidly and inconsiderately?

Do it exactly as if you were driving a car except that your engine
cannot accelerate as fast.  Driving any type of vehicle in the US, you
must yield to traffic in the lane in which you want to merge, so yes,
if you have to stop to wait for a break, do so.  Yielding means not
making anyone slow down for you.  But if you can cut across without
causing anyone to slow down or have a heart attack, just do it.
-- 
Tom Reingold
AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ
tommy@boole.att.com or att!boole!tommy
From: bob@cc.usu.edu (Bob Bayn)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Recumbent Safety
Date: 14 Dec 92 10:37:56 MDT
Distribution: na
Organization: Utah State Univ

While I wholeheartedly share Brady and Karen's enthusiasm for recumbents,
I switch back to my old diamond beater when the roads get icy.  My one
spill in 3600 miles of 'bent pedalling occcurred when a crosswind blew my
rear wheel out from under me on slick-packed snow.  I quickly found myself
sliding on my behind, feet still on the pedals, hands still on the bars
and front wheel still leading the way across the ice.

I agree with Brady's impression that a return to the diamond frame is a 
little like climbing onto stilts.
-- 
Robert Bayn                        o                (I just can't
Office of Computer Services        \__^\=*        picture having fun
Utah State University            (O)""""o           by burning gas)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc