HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: DELFT UNIV OF TECHNOLOGY/COMP CENTRE +31 15 784821 <Jan.vanSetten@RC.TUDelft.NL>
Subject: Re: select * from join
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:21:00 GMT

>...
>    select *
>      from hosts h, hwaddr hw, ip i
>...
>I got random wierd results under 6.3 and 6.4 include garbage data
>...

One of our campus local Ingres users met a simular behaviour last
week in an ABF-application trying to INSERT a joined subSELECT with
only ONE asterix. He isolated the query, repeated it a lot of times
and pointed out that in ~ 3% of the cases the column sequence was
changed.
I leaved out the INSERT, so the next query remained:

        SELECT *
	FROM left, right	;	\p\g

Running this statement over and over, I found a regular behaviour:
the results of always the 13th, 28th and 43th call first presented
the LAST table referenced in the FROM clause:

    +-------+------+                      +------+-------+
    | right | left |     , others         | left | right |
    +-------+------+                      +------+-------+
    +  ~~~~~~~~~~  +                      +  ~~~~~~~~~~  +

In my opinion the 6.4 SQL Ref. Manual suggests that joined asterixes
are allowed: "you can specify select * from tablenames" (p. 7-231).
Further, "If order by is not specified, INGRES doesnot apply any
special sequence to the rows of the result table" (p. 7-230).

It seems to me that problems occur using single wildcards in
SUBselects. I just informed Ingres Technical Support of my
experiences.


Jan.

>----------------------------------------------------------------------<
 A. van Setten                   | post to:  Post Office Box 354
 Delft University of Technology  |           2600 AJ DELFT
 Computing Centre                |           The Netherlands
 Campus Ingres Support           | ship to:  Julianalaan 134
 Phone   :  +31 (0)15-78 4821    |           2628 BL DELFT
   "     :  +31 (0)15-78 5012    |           The Netherlands
 Fax     :  +31 15-78 3787       | visitors: Michiel de Ruyterweg 10-12
 E-mail  :                       | RC-
     Jan.vanSetten@RC.TUDelft.NL | Helpdesk: Info@RC.TUDelft.NL
>----------------------------------------------------------------------<

========================================================================

Newsgroups: comp.databases.ingres
From: leath@atlas.cs.upei.ca (Stephen Leath)
Subject: Sorting on multiple locations ?
Originator: leath@atlas.cs.upei.ca
Organization: University of Prince Edward Island
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:24:11 GMT

We are trying to setup ingres so that sorts will sort over multiple
locations, but, have had no luck so far. We having trouble understanding
the use and setting of the ingres logical II_WORKDIR_XX_NN. Has anyone
accomplished this and if so, is there anything else to do besides setting
the logical ?

Thanks in advance 
Newsgroups: comp.databases.ingres
From: Gavin Trigg <gavin@asis.unimelb.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: images
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 14:24:50 GMT

> 
> 
> Does anyone know how to create images -- that is executable
> applications?
> 
> I keep getting linking errors when I try.
> 
> Please send any suggestions to klkarp@remus.rutgers.edu
> 
> Thanks
> 
Your request was very none specific.  ABF images are created using imageapp.
Imageapp used to be known as abfimage.  Do I interpret your request as you
trying to use the compilers and linkers directly?

-- 
Gavin Trigg	Internet: gavin@asis.unimelb.EDU.AU
		Telephone: +61 3 344 6003 	Fax +61 3 347 4803
Data Base Administrator, Information Technology Services (ASIS),
The University of Melbourne, Parkville, Australia.  3052.
From: mk@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Mike Kellaway)
Newsgroups: comp.databases.ingres
Subject: Control of Ingres software development on unix
Summary: Ingres development environment & control - live applics on same box
Keywords: ingres,development_control,software_development
Date: 27 Jul 92 10:53:59 GMT


CONTROL OF INGRES SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT ON UNIX

We have to develop our applications on the same unix box as
we run them live.

What we are looking for is the best way of setting up the live and
development environments so that it is easy to control the development
environment and to move a new version to live.

Source code control can only cover part of an application. e.g. not
forms control.    Also we seem to be forced to use absolute pathnames.
e.g. help files.

We have tried using different database names and owners for live and
development but this causes problems,.

How do other people do it?
Recommended reading and suggestions welcome.

Mike Kellaway
                 JANET           mmk@uk.ac.soton.mail
                 EARN/BITNET     mmk@mail.soton.ac.uk
FULL INTERNET ADDRESS      mmk%mail.soton.ac.uk@nfsnet-relay.ac.uk
Newsgroups: comp.databases.ingres
From: Gavin Trigg <gavin@asis.unimelb.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Compiling Ingres on DECSystem 5000/240 (Ultrix 4.2A)
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:34:13 GMT

David,

I presume that you know that you are talking about Berkeley's University Ingres
here rather than the commercial product from ASK.  Ingres from ASK is at
Release 6.4 and uses mostly SQL internally.  QUEL can be used for queries.

University Ingres which is at Release 8.9 has not been worked on for quite some
time now as the developers are concentrating on Postgres.  To my knowledge it
only uses QUEL.

This newsgroup is mainly for the commercial version although queries re
University Ingres are quite welcome albeit extremely rare.

Other readers of the newsgroup may be able to provide more information.
-- 
Gavin Trigg	Internet: gavin@asis.unimelb.EDU.AU
		Telephone: +61 3 344 6003 	Fax +61 3 347 4803
Data Base Administrator, Information Technology Services (ASIS),
The University of Melbourne, Parkville, Australia.  3052.
Newsgroups: comp.databases.ingres
From: csc228@lancaster.ac.uk (Bruce Keeler)
Subject: Example Ingres database program in C required
Organization: Confuse-a-Cat Ltd.
Followup-To: poster
Originator: loodvrij@lucs2
Keywords: ingres C SQL
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:02:28 GMT
X-Posted-From: lucs2.lancs.ac.uk
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

I will shortly be writing an application using SQL embedded in C under Ingres
(version 6.3). Never having done this before, and being one who learns a lot
quicker with reference to example code, I was wondering if anyone had any
such applications that I could have a copy of. Nothing huge required, just
something to get the general idea from. Alternatively, pointers to any
PD aplications would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Bruce
-- 
Bruce J. Keeler	                       |   +44 524 68085 (after 8pm GMT)
csc228@lancaster.ac.uk                 |
Above address valid until 30th Sept 92 |     "Share and Enjoy"
From: horn@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jeffrey Horn)
Newsgroups: comp.databases.ingres
Subject: Ingres Salary Information
Date: 24 Jul 92 13:33:59 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics

The company I work for is very interested in retaining the investment it makes
in training its Ingres database staff.  They provide all of the Ingres tools
to make working a joy.  They want to offer competitive salaries to their
Ingres database staff.  I have been asked to find out what "competitive
salary" means in this context.  

I have been able to find general industry surveys that mention salary ranges
for "Database Analysts" and "Database Programmers".  However, I haven't been
able to find information relating specifically to salary ranges based on
database system/operating system etc.  Does anyone know where such information
can be found?  Would the NAIU have anything?  If possible I would like
information broken out by the following:

   Database System (if information just for Ingres, this is ok)
   Operating System (Unix, VMS, et. al.)
   Position (Database Analyst, Database Programmer)
   Region of Country (Midwest, New England, etc.)
   Years of Experience

Thanks for your help, 

Jeffrey Horn
Newsgroups: comp.databases.ingres
From: KGNWSP%MISX02@KINGSTON.ARPC.ALCAN.CA
Subject: Splitting Tables Across Areas
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:36:00 GMT

Hi Netters,

We will running 6.4 on Vax/VMS 5.4-2 shortly, and I want to check out Ingres'
ability to span a table across two disk drives (two Ingres areas).  Have
any of you folks attempted this yet?  Any bugs?  Any problems during
the "modify".  Thanks - I appreciate your help.

Warren Spencer
InCAD Corporation
Ottawa, Canada
(613) 723-5452
From: sjlai@fcit-c1.fcit.monash.edu.au (SIMON LAI)
Newsgroups: comp.databases.ingres
Subject: Books on Ingres
Summary: Request for recent books on Ingres
Keywords: Books; Literature; Ingres
Date: 22 Jul 92 05:09:35 GMT
Organization: FCIT, Monash University


Are there any recent books on the Ingres.  Apart from the manuals,
do any recent books deal with aspects of Ingres such as the Knowledge
Management Extensions?

Thanks.

Simon.
From: david@vax1.cc.uakron.edu (David Sumitra)
Subject: Compiling Ingres on DECSystem 5000/240 (Ultrix 4.2A)
Organization: The University of Akron, Akron, Ohio
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:07:30 GMT

I am new to Ingres. Our system is Ultrix v4.2 on VAX 11/785.
We have on our system Ingres version 7.1 which must have been installed 
while we were under Ultrix 2.0. I understand that we use Ingres only for
the purpose of exposing the students to QUEL. I believe QUEL is the
query language used in Ingres. We do not use the SQL that comes with
Ultrix 4.2.

I am looking into the feasability of migrating from VAX 11/785 to a
DECSystem 5000/240 with Ultrix 4.2A. One of the considerations is
that students should be able to use Ingres(with QUEL) on the new machine.
I believe the current version of Ingres is 8.9. Has anybody running this
on DECSystem 5000/240? Anyone know of any problems compiling Ingres
V8.9 on this machine?

Also, can any one confirm that QUEL is the language that is used in
Ingres V8.9?

I will be grateful for any of your suggestions/comments/advice.

Thanking you in advance,

-- 
David Sumitra                       | Phone:     (216) 972-6206
Software Group, Computer Center     | Internet:  david@vax1.cc.uakron.edu
The University of Akron             | Bitnet:    david@akronvax
Akron, OH 44325   			         sumitra@akronvm
Newsgroups: comp.databases.ingres
From: horn@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jeffrey Horn)
Subject: One rule or many???
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 14:50:18 GMT

Suppose that you want to use rules to implement two or more foreign-key
checks on columns in a table.  Say columns a, b, c, ... of table X.  
Is it better to implement one large rule that checks all the constraints, 
or many small rules that each check one constraint?  That is should one
have one rule

create rule Xkahuna after update of X execute procedrue Xbigproc;

or many rules

create rule Xa after update of X(a) execute procedure Xaproc;
create rule Xb after update of X(b) execute procedure Xbproc;
.
.
.

If there is no "best" method, what are the advantages of each method?  What
about if one is running on a parallel architechture?

Thanks for your input, 

Jeffrey Horn
Newsgroups: comp.databases.ingres
From: drcoles@somnet.sandia.gov (Dwight R Coles)
Subject: Re:  Looking for a USABLE database
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:49:59 GMT

Emmanuel - well, hope you have cooled off a little since Tuesday.
I also hope you don't get too many flames from the list for the
blast you sent out, when it is obvious that you haven't had enough
time to find out how to use Ingres.  Can I suggest a few things
which will get you better response from the many helpful folks
on the list?

1) Your performance experiences on the DG are way out of normal.
Ingres is one of the quickest RDBMS systems around (there may
be some that are 10-20% faster, but you won't find much difference),
and it is definitely one of the more firienffriendly systems to programmers
and (yes) even to users.  Is it perfect? No.  Is it good, even great?
Yes, as you will find as you work with it.  My comparisons come from
having worked with Oracle, RDB, FileMaker, 4thDimension, DB-VISTA,
DBMS, dBase III&IV, Paradox, etc over the last five years.  Overalll,
none come close to the overall capabilities of Ingres.

2) The only way that people can respond reasonably to your frustrations
is to be much more specific about what is going wrong.   Try to
show examples, table structures, system setup information, etc.
There is a pretty good wealth of information available here, if you
just ask correctly.

3)  Most people find that the introductory 5-day training class is
INVALUABLE when starting to use Ingres.  You are trying to take on
a large body of infor,mfformation (I've got 25 Ingres manuals above my desk
as I type), and it can be overwhelming unless someone helps you 
get started right.  It will be a wise investment of time and money.

4) Stick with it.  Jumping around from one good DBMS to another won't
solve your problems.  Pick one and start digging for the right way to
do what you need to do.

5) If you want to give your users a point-and-click data access 
program, take a look at Windows4GL, a Graphical User Interface /
Ingres access environment, on the PC or Unix workstations.  It is
pretty nice!  If you want to do the same on Mac's, I'd suggest
Hypercard and DAL communications if things are complex, or
Anydyne Computing's interface if its query-only.

6) For dynamic table structure changing, try the SCHEMADEF tool
in the SIG area of your Ingres Installation.

7) If you are continually adding new columns to tables, maybe you
should reorganize your tables to a structure I find handy for 
test data:

	DATA TYPE	varchar(30) or so - describes the type of data
	DATA VALUE      float - holds the value itself
	(other keys)	columns needed to look up the data in the
			context of what you are doing

Then as new data types come along, you simply add new rows.  When
you select data of a given type, simply add:
   and data_table.data_type = what-you-need-this-time

Good luck!

Dwight Coles   drcoles@sandia.gov
Newsgroups: comp.databases.ingres
From: CS_PAUL@GSBVAX.UCHICAGO.EDU (Paul Ford 312/702-0335)
Subject: Re: select * with a 3-way join having same column names in ESQL/C
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 15:26:20 GMT

Alan Crosswell writes:

>I had a code segment which said:
>
>       exec sql declare x cursor for
>          select *
>            from hosts h, hwaddr hw, ip i
>              where h.hname=i.hname
>               and i.ipaddr=hw.ipaddr;
>
>       exec sql fetch x into :hosts,:ip,:hwaddr;
>
> I got random wierd results under 6.3 and 6.4 include garbage data and
> numeric type conversion error messages until I changed the code to select
> explicit columns and fetch into explicit struct members in the same order.

Your select results are in a different order than your fetch results.  You
might try fetching into the structures in the same order that you named the
tables in the from clause:

    exec sql fetch x into :hosts, :hwaddr, :ip ;

Or, you could force the result columns into the fetch order order by doing

    select h.*, i.*, hw.*

But, I think your choice to name the result and fetch columns explicitly was
the right one.  You might consider some of the disadvantages of the * notation
for anything but interactive SQL (in addition to the one you just ran into):

* notation causes code to break when columns are added or reordered:

    When (not if) you change the structure of a table, by adding columns or
    reordering columns, your embedded code will break until you rerun
    DCLGEN, recompile and relink.  On the other hand, if you've explicitly
    named every  column in the select statement, your embedded program will
    continue to run without error.  (What your program should do with the
    additional column is a separate issue.)  Column deletions are still a
    problem, but they tend to be much rarer than additions.

* notation makes code harder to read and maintain

    Naming all the result columns is a form of documentation.  If your code
    has to be maintained in the future by someone less familiar with the
    tables (after a short interval that might be you :-) it is a lot easier
    to figure out what's coming from where with an explicit list of column
    names.

Hard experience over many years has taught us _NEVER_ to use * notation in
our 4GL or embedded 3GL select statments.  The extra editing effort up
front (a lot of cut and paste of lists of columns, usually started by
sucking the DCLGEN file into the editor for the complete current list) pays
for itself many times over in robustness and ease of maintenance.  Don't
forget that the time spent actually writing code ends up being only a small
fraction of the total cost of developing and maintaining software.

Paul Ford
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
GSB Computing Services                  312.702.0335
University of Chicago                   cs_paul@gsbvax.uchicago.edu
1101 E. 58th Street
Chicago IL 60637
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: comp.databases.ingres
From: alan@curta.cc.columbia.edu (Alan Crosswell)
Subject: Re: Example Ingres database program in C required
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:47:01 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.180228.9980@ctr.columbia.edu> csc228@lancaster.ac.uk  
(Bruce Keeler) writes:
> I will shortly be writing an application using SQL embedded in C under  
Ingres
> (version 6.3). Never having done this before, and being one who learns a  
lot
> quicker with reference to example code, I was wondering if anyone had  
any
> such applications that I could have a copy of. Nothing huge required,  
just
> something to get the general idea from. Alternatively, pointers to any
> PD aplications would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Bruce
> -- 
> Bruce J. Keeler	                       |   +44 524 68085 (after 8pm GMT)
> csc228@lancaster.ac.uk                 |
> Above address valid until 30th Sept 92 |     "Share and Enjoy"

There are a number of quite good examples in the Ingres manuals.
Newsgroups: comp.databases.ingres
From: sandie@mprgate.mpr.ca (Bert Sandie)
Newsgroups: comp.databases.ingres
Subject: INGRES ReportWriter Woes
Keywords: Reportwriter, Report
Date: 21 Jul 92 22:57:44 GMT
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Originator: sandie@atom

Hi,

I am having a number of problems using the INGRES report-writer 
to compose a number of my reports due to:
(a) the inability of the report writer to allow more than one query 
    in a single report, 
(b) INGRES not supporting outer-joins, and 
(c) due to not being able to represent even a simple master-detail
    relationships in a report (due to (a) also).

I have used UNIONS in the past to simulate an outer join, but,
when more than 1 case of an outer join is needed in a single
query (ie more than 1 UNION) then the performance of the
query is degraded rapidly.  In 4GL the problem of outer joins
can be fixed by using multiple queries with conditional 
statements which check for the possible existance of an outer
join and thus prohibit a select statement from returning
nothing because of an outer join NULL match is found.

However, in report-writer only one query is supported thus
the use of unions is needed which is not a adequate solution.

Does anyone have any solutions to these problems with report-writer,
and/or know of any companies which provide tools which can be used
for writing custom Ingres reports.

Thanks in advance,

Bert Sandie

MPR Teltech Limited
Burnaby, BC, Canada
EMAIL: sandie@mprgate.mpr.ca
From: horn@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jeffrey Horn)
Newsgroups: comp.databases.ingres
Subject: Pretty-Printers for 4GL
Date: 23 Jul 92 05:31:08 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics

Does anyone know of any commercial or free pretty printers for Ingres
{ABF,Windows}/4GL?  I am looking for something analogous to "indent" for
C.

Thanks, 

Jeffrey Horn
Newsgroups: comp.databases.ingres
From: camidei@Ingres.COM (Chris Amidei)
Subject: Re: Activate Menuitem
Reply-To: camidei@Ingres.COM (Chris Amidei)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 22 Jul 92 02:12:47 GMT

In article <1992Jul15.195314.10292@macc.wisc.edu> ninab@zucchini.macc.wisc.edu (Nina Boss) writes:
>In article <1992Jul14.064020.234@falcon.navsses.navy.mil>  
>semdipilla@falcon.navsses.navy.mil writes:
>> help:
>> 
>>     We are currently running version "5.0" of Ingres.  Our application  
>contains
>> embedded Quel in 'C'.  A problem developed when we recently had to expand
>> one of our Visual Forms EDitor(VIFRED) screens.  We needed to added a 10th
>> and 11th menuoption then in the 'C' code we created EQUEL commands for
>> an activate menuitem "10".  the problem we are having is that options 10 & 11
>> look different on the output the options 1-9.  The output is as follows.
>> 
>> 1(1) 2(2) 3(3) 4(4) 5(5) 6(6) 7(7) 8(8) 9(9)  10    11
>> 
>> 
>>  Does not look to good.  The problem however, may be that a menuitem can
>> only be one(1) digit.    
>> 
>> 
>> Any ideas
>
>The problem is that you only have menu items 1 to 9 mapped to a keys. In your  
>menuline above the 1 outside of the parens is the name of the menu item itself,  
>the (1) in parenthesis is acutally the name of the key to press.   In your  
>example, the menu line item itself and the key happen to have the same name.  
>
>Menuitem1 is mapped to 1 on your keypad, etc.  through menuitem9.  Look at your  
>mapping file in the [ingres.files] directory (or ~ingres/files in Unix).  The  
>files are named for the terminal type with the suffix .map.  (ie vt100.map,  
>vt100f.map, etc.) 
>
>Check out the discussion in Appendix B of the Using INGRES Through Forms and  
>Menus manual.  There is more than you want to know about mapping function keys. 
> 
>--
>Nina Boss
>Madison Academic Computing Center-University of Wisconsin 
>Internet: ninab@macc.wisc.edu,
>NeXTmail w/attachments: ninab@zuchinni.macc.wisc.edu

Nina, That is a Release 6 manual. They're using release 5 though if they 
could find a copy of that manual it would be correct information.  They would
want the release 5 equivalent.  The one that talks about QBF, VIFRED and forms.
BUT, I can't remember the title ARRRRRGhhhhhh!.

Buy the way, I think the release 6 manual is more complete .

These are strictly my opinion.  If you disagree then E-mail me.

--
The last thing the bungee jumper heard: Gee, I thought I was next?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Amidei		| E-mail: camidei@ingres.com
Instructor        	|  Phone: (510)748-3261 - my desk
From: green@rwja.umdnj.edu (Cliff Green)
Newsgroups: comp.databases.ingres
Subject: Re: Books on Ingres
Keywords: Books; Literature; Ingres
Date: 23 Jul 92 12:59:54 GMT
Organization: Robert Wood Johnson Medical School, Piscataway NJ

chas@castle.ed.ac.uk (C Spencer) writes:

>sjlai@fcit-c1.fcit.monash.edu.au (SIMON LAI) writes:

>>Are there any recent books on the Ingres.  Apart from the manuals,
>>do any recent books deal with aspects of Ingres such as the Knowledge
>>Management Extensions?

>I'm currently reading (and working through, and thoroughly enjoying) a
>book called "Ingres and Relational Databases", by David Rothwell,

And I picked up (and yes, read) a copy of "Ingres SQL Developer's 
Guide" by Hursch and Hursch (McGraw-Hill).  I guess this is a fair
intro to SQL programming (not being an expert therein), and also
has no reference to KME.

c
-- 
Clifford Green               Internet:   green@rwja.umdnj.edu
Academic Computing Services     voice:   908-463-4436
UMDNJ-RWJMS                       fax:   908-463-5252
#include <fineprint.h>
Newsgroups: comp.databases.ingres