From: sj_a107@titan.kingston.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.save.the.earth
Subject: Re: engineering and the enviroment
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:56:21 GMT
Organization: Kingston Polytechnic

In article <1992Apr13.162113.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk>, clg265@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes:
> The environment is safe in the hands of scientists and engineers.

That is a pretty sweeping statement to make. I am a scientist. So was Dr.
Oppenheimer.

> Why,because organisations such as Greenpeace,although have made the 
> public more aware of environmental issues and in some cases have
> won a case or two, will never shut down petrochemical plants or
> any other kind of plant for that matter.
> Everybody complains about ICI plants on the Mersey polluting the
> river but this is a nessary devil because it keeps people in work,

The concept of 'employment', whereby everyone must be doing something that
produces money, is just a product of our consumer system. Nomadic man just
wandered around, getting food and equipment as he went. Settled man grew
food and made equipment where he lived, and would barter with neighbours.
Feudal man grew, bartered, and gave food or labour as tribute to his rulers.
Modern man has to earn money to fund his leaders, buy food, water, and 
equipment, and to finance the ridiculous cost of his living space. For this
reason, anyone who isn't making money is seen as a problem.

> it produces the raw materials for plastics that all the veggies
> out there need for shoes etc and it produces the pharmacuticals
> that we all need from time to time.

Wouldn't it be nice if all plastic objects lasted as long as plastic shoes?
Unfortunately, plastic packaging is usually thrown away. But then again, if
stuff didn't wear out and get thrown away, where would product turnover
come from?
Pharmaceuticals. Most of our modern pharmacoepia was originally extracted
from plants. Some of it still is. The pharmaceutical industry has produced
many wonderful cures. I has also produced Valium(tm) and Thalidomide(tm),
not to mention large profits from overinflated prices.

> Goverment controls on pullution into the environment have been up dated
> since the industrial revolution, and as the technology inproves to
> help processes become more "environmentally friendly", pollution from
> chemical plants will decrease.

Absolutely. But there is huge room for improvement. Also, an important point
has been missed. Even if the present industrial base could be made completely
pollution free, it would still use up natural resources, and those resources
are finite. Oil, coal, and gas will run out!

> We all need industry to maintan our standard of living and it would

We need OIL to maintain our present system and standard of living. When that
gets scarce, first world living standards will take a very big dip, very 
suddenly. In my humble opinion, first world living standards are just another
part of the destructive status quo.

> foolish to throw this away, because the Brazillians would open up these
> plants along the Amozon.

Beguiled by first world living standards, and backed up against the wall by
interest repayment demands from first world banks, the Brazilian Government
are trying to emulate the first world system, and generate some money. They 
will do this whatever state first world industry is in. 

> So people if you really want to save the world become an engineer or
> a scientist.

The best way to save the World, is to stop chewing it up at such a rate.
We must place limits on what we do to the Earth. We must cut back our 
presence here. At times in the history of life on Earth, there have been
uphevals. New species have encountered new, favourable environments and  
have expanded. The expansion would be halted by shortage of resources, 
there would be overpopulation and starvation, animals with fewer young 
to feed would survive better, and over a period of generations, the 
genetically programmed fertility level of the species would drop. A new
balance would be found. Sometimes. Some species just starved.
Lemmings maintain a balance by committing suicide in large numbers whenever
food gets scarce. Our intelligence allows us to do greater damage than 
depletion of food would allow, and it will allow us to sustain our expanding
path for longer than any unintelligent animal could.
We must change the way we live. This need not mean a return to the stone
age, just a change in the technology we use. Bicycles, solar/pedal power 
cars, and solar powered public transport could replace our present land
transport nightmare, while solar powered polymer foam airships would be a
safe, quiet alternative to the gas guzzling aerial dreadnaughts that fill
the skies today. The huge, tightly packed metropoli could be dismantled, 
and people could move to smaller, happier communities, which would provide 
for their own needs, reducing the unnecessary flow of goods. A good 
communications network would make a lot of travel unnecessary. Industry 
would still be around, but only for what people NEED. The sum of Human 
achievement would be preserved, but it would only be used to everone's 
benefit.
Unfortunately, a very sore point would be the reduction of population to
sustainable levels. Births would have to be controlled, and many women
would have to renounce their fertility altogether. Distressing, but 
essential. 
The status quo would not stand if all those who could play a part in
changing it didn't think it was good. But eventually it will dawn on 
most people that the status quo will break down, and unpleasantly, 
when one of the resources it feeds on runs out (and possibly sooner).

	The future is in your hands. Think carefully.
 
			Pax et Bonum.

> ID (chemical engineer)

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|                                        | Lukin Brewer                   |
| A wise old owl lived in an oak,        | Science type student           |
| The more he farted, the less he spoke. | At Kingston Polytechnic        |
| The less he spoke, the more he farted, | Kingston-upon-Thames, England  |
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