HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:32:00 EDT
From:         Slimm Laramie <LIBALP@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      I got a soft spot . . .

1) Happy Birthday, Uegop Naes.

2) Majcher, after much soul-searching, I've decided I can't blame you for
trying to overload my mailbox.  I'd do the same thing if I were in your
predicament, i.e. witless and only 13-years-old.

3) Funcum, I noticed you're calling yourself Uniball.  I assume this
refers to the Faber Castell Uniball, which would normally put you in LIBWCA's
camp, except that you've still got all your teeth.  You gotta get right, boy,
you just gotta.  The Papermate Flexigrip is where right-thinking (and right-
handed) folks are at.  The Flexigrip really puts the squeeze on the Uniball.


91% lucky,
Mr. Fontanelle
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Return-Path: <mbm@pacscl.uarc.upenn.edu>
Posted-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 00:52:53 EDT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 00:52:53 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      a little flurry

of exchanges and then you sink into your torpor again.  Get up.  Move
I want this room cleaned by morning!
Mother Funcum.
From: majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Salamander~)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Subject: Re: just wait'll
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:21:13 GMT
Organization: UB

mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU (MM) writes:

>the salamander gets back.

	Back?  Always been up front.

Bert

-- 
  majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu     *  The meek shall inherit the earth,   *
    Rev. M @P.O. Box 156             and the wise keep moving on...
     Amherst, NY  14226        *   The Earth is our Mother, but how   *
    Voice: (716) 834-1648       many of us still live with our mother?
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Return-Path: <mbm@pacscl.uarc.upenn.edu>
Posted-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 00:40:12 EDT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.fnord-l
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 00:40:12 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      been a long time since I looked into the rearview mirror

and saw the pupils of my eyes.  Weren't they huge?  And haven't they

shrunk down to pinpoints, and don't they fear to enlarge?  Situated

in this culture, I am aware that my eyes are not supposed to widen, that

I am not to pause too long and let the field of vision enlarge.  Keep

walking.  Keep moving.  That's the thing.  So the pupil of the culture's

eyes has shrunk.  Think of it as a kind of breathing.  Then, I expanded--

\hugely, what eyes and senses could take in, and after, gradually returned

to size.  Now, the messages have infiltrated me, telling me not to take

in more, remain directed upon target, keep walking.  I remember what it was
and in theory I could do it without the drug, but I have a different set
of nerves today, that dance like a cowboy with bullets under his heels,
if I ever try to get naturally high.  "The force that through the green
fuse drives the flower/Drives my green life.."  Also, my face got red,
and my pores were huge.  Funcum.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: University of California at Santa Barbara
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.rscs-l
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 08:48:04 PDT
From:         "Dwight M. McCann" <DWIGHT@UCSBVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Fuzzy EXIT11 Documentation
X-To:         RSCS-L@PUCC.BITNET,
              Reader Comment Forms <PUBRCF@GDLVME.VNET.IBM.COM>

VM RSCS Networking EXIT CUSTOMIZATION, Version 3.1, SH24-5222-00, Chapter
3, Exit 11 description, page 55, under "Exit Conditions", says in part,
'To ensure the data in R0 and R1 is restored for any repeated calls to
Exit 11, your exit routine should specify REGS=(0,12) on the REXIT macro'.
On page 56, under "Programming Considerations", first bullet, "If your
exit routine issues return code 0 or 4, it must not pass back a user
section.  If one is passed back, RSCS ignores it."

To me, this sounds as though if you have a single EXIT11 routine active,
and always return code 0 or 4, then you don't have to worry about R0 and R1
because they will be ignored (since this is where your user section
parameters, that are supposed to be ignored, are put.)  Unfortunately,
this isn't the case!  If you don't restore R0 and/or R1 (I didn't try
to narrow it down) then RSCS will ABEND with a protection exception (at
least mine does!) in some nameless RSCS routine.

Dwight M. McCann
Information Systems & Computing
University of California at Santa Barbara  93106
(805) 893-3113
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.rscs-l
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:15:13 PDT
From:         "Mike Friedman (510) 642-1410" <SPGMNF@UCBCMSA.BITNET>
Subject:      RSCS V3.1 and SMTPRSCS

The last I had heard, FAL didn't understand the new RSCS V3 config statements,
such as IMBED.  (I also worried about LINKDEF).  But I wasn't sure whether the
mere appearance of an 'IMBED' would bomb SMTPRSCS, or if it would just ignore
the statement.  So I just ran a test.

Was I pleasantly surprised!  The IMBED was honored.  SMTPRSCS put out a
message 'IMBEDing filename xxxxx.yyyy.*' and proceeded to do just that!
(Also, if the IMBEDed file doesn't exist, SMTPRSCS just says so and then
continues cleanly, using the contents of the original file).

This is FAL V2.2.  Looking at the code for SMTPRSCS confirms that it is now
handling all this.  (There is even a constant representing the maximum number
of nested IMBED filenames permitted, set to 10).

Since I have not seen mention of this on any list, I thought I'd pass it on.

(Sometimes, good news strikes just when you least expect it!)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: dasig@suvm.bitnet
X-VMS-To: IN%"dasig@suvm.bitnet"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dasig
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:03:00 -0500
From:         BOSWORTH@UMAECS.BITNET
Subject:      testing for IRM-related skills

In reply to John Smith of Colorado:

Other areas for testing that occurred to me:

  logical data modeling versus physical data design

  data documentation/metadata/repository

  data distribution

  data change management

                    Michael Bosworth
                    Data Processing Center
                    University of Massachusetts
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sqlinfo
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:09:52 EDT
From:         "Joe P. DeCello" <jpd@DISCOVERY.CL.MSU.EDU>
Subject:      Please add me (jpd@cad.msu.edu)
X-To:         SQLINFO@UICVM.UIC.EDU

Please add me.

Thanx.

jpd@cad.msu.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sqlinfo
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:47:24 EDT
From:         Ed Roepe <ROEPE@MITVMA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Larry Crawford's SYS0001 contention

Larry,

We have a similiar problem here at MIT. Here is a different approach to
the problem of locking. Use DBSU to load the data.

I run REXX or PLI programs to transform the data into a format that can
be loaded using the DATALOAD command in the DBSU utilities. This can be
done using tape or tdisk to hold the created temporary tables. I then
use the DATALOAD command in DBSU to load the data quickly. Most of our
tables have PAGE level locking. DBSU uses RR locking by default.

Make sure you use LOCK TABLE <table> IN SHARE MODE before each load, grant,
index and update statistics function. This will only take one lock on the
table to prevent escalation and also keeps your functions from locking the
catalog EXCLUSIVE.

Also you may want to SET UPDATE STATISTICS OFF before the load command.
If I have several tables in a dbspace I update the statistics once for the
dbspace rather than each table. This can be delayed until off hours
if needed.

Hope this helps,

                       ...Ed

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed Roepe                       | Building E19-523
Senior Programmer / Analyst    | Massachusetts Institute of Technology
(617) 253-7280                 | 77 Massachusetts Avenue
ROEPE@MITVMA.MIT.EDU           | Cambridge, MA 02139
From: jpd@discovery.msu.edu (Joe P. DeCello)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sqlinfo
Subject: Re: Larry Crawford's SYS0001 contention
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:14:52 GMT
Reply-To: jpd@discovery.msu.edu
Organization: Michigan State University

Hello,

I am learning how to write SQL statements for/in SYBASE on a Sun
system.  Is this the appropriate newsgroup.  Are there others
which discuss how to write SQL.
---
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Joseph P. DeCello III                      e-mail:  jpd@cad.msu.edu
Michigan State University                      ph:  (517) 353-3027 
Specialized Computing Support Services              10am - 5pm EST
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sqlinfo
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:41:00 PST
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2
From:         6852350@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject:      TESTing
X-To:         SQLINFO%UICVM@bitnic.educom.edu

Hi, this is a test.

 ALEXANDRE
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sqlinfo
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:09:01 -0600
From:         Stellar Systems Group <STELLAR@BCSC02.BITNET>
Subject:      Long-running Reports Forced

 On Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:10:24 SST, Mrs Susan Chan said:

 >We recently introduced a timeout of 30 mins for IDLE users on our system.
 >This was done by an EXEC which obtains information on IDLE users from
 >SMART.  However, with this implementation, we have encountered a problem
 >with running some reports.
 >
 >The reports are written in IBM's 4GL Application System (AS) and access
 >data in SQL/DS tables.  Basically, the AS program runs the SQL query
 >to extract the data, then runs the report to format the data into a
 >CMS file, which can then be displayed on screen or printed.
 >
 >We have found that when CPU is very high (>90%), and the system becomes
 >very slow, SQL/DS sometimes takes more than 30 mins to return the
 >result of the query.  When this happens, the userid running the AS
 >program is forced off and the report does not run to completion.
 >We think that when AS passes control over to SQL/DS to process the
 >query, the userid running the program is treated as IDLE by SMART
 >which is why it gets forced off even though the AS program is suppose
 >to be running midway.
 >
 >I was wondering if anyone out there has had a similar experience or
 >can offer any help on how we can prevent these userids from being
 >forced.  We have temporarily solved the problem by excluding these
 >specific userids from being forced; however, it is not a good solution
 >as more and more users would want the same privilege.
 >
 >For your info, we are running VM/HPO Rel 5, SQL/DS 2.2, AS 2.2.
 >
 >I'm sorry this is not exactly an SQL/DS question but I hope someone out
 >there might have the same environment or can direct me to the right list.
 >Any help would be most appreciated.  Thanks.

 When an SQL query is initiated, the actual processing of the query is done
 in the SQL/DS database machine, and the VM userid which initiated the query
 waits for a response.  During that time SMART will show the VM userid that
 issued the SQL statement as IDLE.  This is always the case for SQL/DS, it
 isn't really an AS problem, you would see the same thing if users were using
 ISQL, QMF, CSP, PL/I, COBOL, DBSU etc.

 The easiest solution for you would be to have the EXEC check and see if the
 IDLE users are actually executing any SQL/DS before you force them.  You
 could do this by using a secondary console facility, or simply having your
 EXEC use RXSQL, to issue a SHOW ACTIVE, if the userid is active then you
 do not want to force it.

 Regards,
 John F. Griffin
 Stellar Systems Group
 306 - 1095 McKenzie Avenue
 Victoria, B.C.  Canada  V8P 2L5
 Phone:(604) 479-7722  Fax:(604) 479-6526
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sqlinfo
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 07:43:09 -0600
From:         "Frank C. Fillmore Jr." <TFG01@IBRDVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Long-running AS Reports

 Mrs. Chan,

 Apparently "Mike" had the same idea that I did, but didn't send his reply
 to the list.  To recap: your are using an EXEC that gathers SMART data
 and FORCE LOGOFFs a VM userid that has been idle more than 30 minutes.
 You have users that are using Application System to create reports against
 SQL/DS data and when these reports run longer than 30 minutes, these
 users are being forced off and losing whatever work had been completed.

 My suggestion was to place a RXSQL SHOW USERS in the EXEC to determine
 if a user that is about to be forced off has an active agent.  It is
 important that the agent not be in communications wait.  For example
 a user could retrieve a large quantity of data into QMF and not print
 it or go to the bottom of the report to end the LUW - and then leave
 (I know none of your users would do this...).  In this case the agent
 would be in comm. wait indefinitely and should also be forced off.

 You asked if the REXX/SQL interface is an IBM product.  Under SQL/DS
 version 2.x and before it is a separately priced Program Offering -
 very cheap and well worth the expense.  Under SQL/DS 3.x RXSQL becomes
 a Feature of the SQL/DS license and a bit more expensive, but still definitely
 worth it for administration and rapid application prototyping.  Contact
 your IBM account team.

 In the absence of RXSQL, you can still use REXX to access the SHOW USERS
 data via "push", "pull", and "parse", but it is more difficult.

 Good luck,
 Frank

 I can be reached at IBRD 202-473-9682
 -or- at The Fillmore Group, Inc. 410-465-6335
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sqlinfo
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:41:37 SST
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2
From:         "Susan Chan (ext 2595)" <CCESL@NUS3090.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Long-running Reports Forced

From: Susan Chan            (ext 2595)

Mike,

Thank you for your prompt reply.  I checked with my systems staff and
they informed that we do not have RXSQL.  Is it an IBM or 3rd party
product?

Best regards,
Susan Chan (Computer Centre)      Fax: (65)778-0198
National University of Singapore
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sqlinfo
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:10:24 SST
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2
From:         "Mrs Susan Chan (ext 2595)" <CCESL@NUS3090.BITNET>
Subject:      Long-running Reports Forced

From: Mrs Susan Chan        (ext 2595)

We recently introduced a timeout of 30 mins for IDLE users on our system.
This was done by an EXEC which obtains information on IDLE users from
SMART.  However, with this implementation, we have encountered a problem
with running some reports.

The reports are written in IBM's 4GL Application System (AS) and access
data in SQL/DS tables.  Basically, the AS program runs the SQL query
to extract the data, then runs the report to format the data into a
CMS file, which can then be displayed on screen or printed.

We have found that when CPU is very high (>90%), and the system becomes
very slow, SQL/DS sometimes takes more than 30 mins to return the
result of the query.  When this happens, the userid running the AS
program is forced off and the report does not run to completion.
We think that when AS passes control over to SQL/DS to process the
query, the userid running the program is treated as IDLE by SMART
which is why it gets forced off even though the AS program is suppose
to be running midway.

I was wondering if anyone out there has had a similar experience or
can offer any help on how we can prevent these userids from being
forced.  We have temporarily solved the problem by excluding these
specific userids from being forced; however, it is not a good solution
as more and more users would want the same privilege.

For your info, we are running VM/HPO Rel 5, SQL/DS 2.2, AS 2.2.

I'm sorry this is not exactly an SQL/DS question but I hope someone out
there might have the same environment or can direct me to the right list.
Any help would be most appreciated.  Thanks.

Best regards,
Susan Chan (Computer Centre)      Fax: (65)778-0198
National University of Singapore
From: jpd@discovery.msu.edu (Joe P. DeCello)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sqlinfo
Subject: Re: Please add me (jpd@cad.msu.edu)
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:34:33 GMT
Reply-To: jpd@discovery.msu.edu
Organization: Michigan State University

Please DO NOT add me.

Someone (not to bright) has lead me astray, I already read this
group and he tells me to send a request to this mailing list.
---
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Joseph P. DeCello III                      e-mail:  jpd@cad.msu.edu
Michigan State University                      ph:  (517) 353-3027 
Specialized Computing Support Services              10am - 5pm EST
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sqlinfo
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 07:49:51 -0600
From:         "Frank C. Fillmore Jr." <TFG01@IBRDVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Larry Crawford's SYS0001 contention

 Since almost every SQL/DS task must access the SYS0001 DBSpace (where
 your system catalogs are stored), anything that lengthens your path
 through the database will hold catalog locks and reduce concurrency.
 You should likely review and retune SQL/DS in a comprehensive fashion,
 but some possible culprits are:

 Are you doing any 3GL precompilation during the load?
 Have reorganized your catalog indexes lately (ever)?  Use the SQLCIREO
     utility.
 Have you updated statistics on DBSpace SYS0001?
 Are the extents for SYS0001 on the same DASD volume as the SQL/DS directory
 and log(s)?

 Good luck,
 Frank

 I can be reached at IBRD 202-473-9682
 -or- at The Fillmore Group, Inc. 410-465-6335
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sqlinfo
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:50:38 EDT
From:         "Bane, Thomas N." <TOM@WVNVM.BITNET>

This is a test.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sqlinfo
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:31:48 MST
From:         WEINTRAU@ARIZVM1.CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject:      SYS001 CONTENTION
X-To:         SQLINFO%UICVM.bitnet@ARIZVM1.ccit.arizona.edu

Another routine that can help with the performance of the load is to drop the i
ndecies on the table that is being loaded and recreate after the load.  SQLDBSU
will update the statistics when it is finished with the load.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
DAVID B. WEINTRAUB           |   VOICE: 602-626-0913                        |
SYSTEMS PROGRAMMER - SENIOR  |   FAX:  602-626-4884                         |
OFFICE OF MEDICAL COMPUTING  |   EMAIL: WEINTRAU@ARIZVM1.CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU   |
1501 N. CAMPBELL AVE #2104   |                                              |
TUCSON, ARIZONA 85724        |                                              |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCLAIMER:
THE ABOVE STATEMENTS ARE THE AUTHORS AND DO NOT REPRESENT THE OPINIONS OF THE
UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sqlinfo
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 09:36:22 PST
From:         Larry Crawford <LCRAWFOR@UCDCVDLS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Larry Crawford's SYS0001 contention

On Wed, 22 Jul 1992 07:49:51 -0600 Frank C. Fillmore Jr. said:
> Since almost every SQL/DS task must access the SYS0001 DBSpace (where
> your system catalogs are stored), anything that lengthens your path
> through the database will hold catalog locks and reduce concurrency.
> You should likely review and retune SQL/DS in a comprehensive fashion,
> but some possible culprits are:
>
> Are you doing any 3GL precompilation during the load?
As I mentioned the load program is long running and yes occasionally
we need to pre-process PLI programs during this time. It is frustrating that
we can't complie and execute a program which uses dynamic SQL and do a compile
at the same time.
> Have reorganized your catalog indexes lately (ever)?  Use the SQLCIREO
>     utility.
This sounds like an excellent suggestion that may help us improve our
performance, but it does not address the problem of allowing us to do normal
database functions (i.e complie, create tables or indexes, etc.) while
executing a program which utilizes dynamic SQL.
>Have you updated statistics on DBSpace SYS0001?
Another good suggestion.
> Are the extents for SYS0001 on the same DASD volume as the SQL/DS directory
> and log(s)?
Possibly, I'm not sure how to tell which extents are assigned to which
pools.

While tuning for improved performance is something I will give some attention
to soon, it does not address my need to be able to use dynamic SQL and be able
to perform normal database functions. I beleive the root of my problem is that
IBM (contrary to their own advice) has place multiple tables in SYS001 DBSPACE
and all of the functions I mentioned above requie exclusive locks on data in
that dbspace. Do you think I might get around this problem by altering the lock
level - currently row level - of SYS001 to page. I mention this because it seem
s contention on SYS001 should only occur when there is contention for the same
row of data. It seems unlikely my dynamic SQL load program, which I assume
is trying to put access module in SYSACCES, should conflict with a create table
command, which is trying to write a row to SYSCATALOG - unless lock escalation
has occured (not unlikely with a lock level of row).

By the way, we are currently at SQL/DS 2.2, version 3 has been ordered and
will be installed soon.

Thanks for your help,
Larry Crawford (916) 752-4407

Larry Crawford
CVDLS - MIS
(916) 752-4407
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sqlinfo
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:30:49 CDT
From:         Paul Alpar 312 996-0819 <U12989@UICVM.BITNET>

Please, take me off the list. Thanks
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sqlinfo
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 19:01:00 GMT
From:         Joseph A Schunk <0001007026@MCIMAIL.COM>
Subject:      SQL/DS Admin tools
X-To:         SQL INFO <SQLINFO@uicvm.uic.edu>

SQL/DS'rs,

We are currently looking at SQL/DS monitoring and administration tools.

The two products we're focusing in on are:

1) IBM's 'SQL MASTER'
2) VM Software Group's 'DB/ADMIN'

Questions:

1) Have we overlooked a good product ?
2) Has anyone had good or bad experiences with these products ?

  +------------------------------------------------------------+
  |  MCI Mail:  JSchunk or 100-7026                            |
  |  Telex (MCI/WUI): 6501007026   Ans: 6501007026MCI UW       |
  |  Internet:  JSchunk@MCIMail.Com                            |
  |  X.400: G=joseph; S=schunk; ADMD=mci; C=us;                |
  +------------------------------------------------------------+
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.sqlinfo
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 11:47:50 SST
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2
From:         "Susan Chan (ext 2595)" <CCESL@NUS3090.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Long-running AS Reports

From: Susan Chan            (ext 2595)

Many thanks to all who replied.  Generally, everyone recommended that I use
RXSQL to check for active SQL/DS users.  As we don't have RXSQL installed,
I will recommend that we consider getting it.

Best regards,
Susan Chan (Computer Centre)      Fax: (65)778-0198
National University of Singapore
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU