From: todd@liveware.com
Subject: Re: Nitro (medium - long)
Keywords: SLOWING, GOING, GONE
Reply-To: todd@liveware.com
Organization: Liveware Corporation   Fort Collins, CO.  USA.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:12:25 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.133611.6559@cube.handheld.com> jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim  
De Arras) writes:
> In article <BvnJ4A.pL.2@cs.cmu.edu> nash+@cs.cmu.edu (Richard Nash) writes:
> > >In article <dillon.0oq2@overload.Berkeley.CA.US>  
> dillon@overload.Berkeley.CA.US  
> > >(Matthew Dillon) writes:
> > >> 

[ reality check needed here ]
> > 
> > Richard V. Nash
> > nash@vi.ri.cmu.edu
> 
> I'm afraid you are not in touch with reality, here!  Even the current NeXT  
> apologists admit it's slower.  I have 32 meg of ram, and do not normally swap  
> to disk.  And a 1.4 gb harddisk, and do not usually access data from the  
> network.
> The same setup as before, only 30-50% slower in the user interface.
> 
> Jim

<<Rambling on>>

I must agree with Jim. We have had no less than 28 megs in our NWS
and cubes and have been testing Beta 1, 2 and have Gold installed.  It is
without a question the slowest upgrade since 6.0.7 to 7.0 on the mac
(which by the was was the last straw and made us stop Mac development).
I agree with Eric Scott (EPS) that 3.0 does seem to be a serious problem
and historically a bad release for software (how about Ultrix 3.x ;').

Man, 3.0 is so slow in the UI, that people using 32 or even 16 megs
on a 2.x system come and see 3.0 and say they don't want to upgrade.
That my friend is bad news for NeXT.  Reputation for having over
priced hardware, bad delivery promises, super hyper active sales
mouths, leaks from the top, and worst of all poor OS performance.
EPS or someone stated they couldn't believe the speed decrement.
All of you believe it! 3.0 is at least 50% slower without swapping.
Man with swapping comes into place the /private/vm/swapfile grows
very fast and to boot the machine slows way down.

I used to have 15-20 apps running because I don't quit apps very often,
constantly working on various projects it seems.  So I push stuff
a bit.  But on a 32 meg 400 HD workstation this didn't push
paging much with 2.x.  But on the exact same system, 3.0 allows
maybe 8-9 hungry apps without swapping.  So in a way, my machine
and my work practices have been changed.  My machine has been
'changed' due to a different reality of functionality.  As well
I have been changed by 3.0 due to its added functionality, but
more importantly it has changed me to be somewhat less productive
over time.  This adds up over 365 days or at least until
the NeXT slower system comes out ;'<

Bottom line for me is NeXT must match software releases with increased
hardware capabilities at a minimum.  NeXT is NOT doing this
with a 40 Mhz 040 system. A 15%-20% CPU speed increase (even if they
implement swaptimizer hardware/software) will NOT bring my machine back
to the speed and productivity functionality which it has under 2.x.

Too much to weigh since it is not just a hardware issue.  I do
get added functionality with DB and 3D kit as well as other kit
software.  But the bottom line is daily productivity.  Most NeXT
users won't be using 3Dkit stuff, and likely business are going
to be primarily the DBKit users.

UI speed (preceived or not) is largely responsible for making me
happy with a machine that costs as much as a NeXT turbo costs or even
a 'nitro'.

<<Rambling off>>

Todd Nathan
Liveware Corporation
-- 
--
Todd Nathan			Voice: (303) 484-7607 (w)
Liveware Corporation		Email: <todd@liveware.com>

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.hardware