From: mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Ritual Magick Experiences
Date: 17 Apr 92 10:37:24 GMT
Organization: School of Mathematics, University of Bath, UK



>
>But, the gentleman has just told you--he doesn't *care* if you believe
>him.  In spite of your amendments to earlier postings, maintaining
>that you were speaking to particular people, your tone still appears
>to be that of the expectant judge--"Present thy arguments, o unworthy
>magickians, and I shall see if ye are permitted to exist in my [ed.
>note:  narrow] reality-tunnel."  What horseshit.

If you don't care what I think, and you don't want to give me
any information, then why do you get pissed off at me when I tell
you what I think due to the lack of you giving me information.  I think
your reading "tone" into my words.  Your not hearing my voice, but 
reading my words. 

I have gotten Josh's stuff, and plan to try it.   
If all you want to do is call me names, then  leave me alone.

>
>Artists yearn for public recognition (sometimes).  More often than
>not, they do public works for money.

Then it would follow that magick isn't really an art either.

>The set of people interested in proving things to you seems quite
>small--how about moving it to email, or better yet, let us know how
>you do with the experiments Josh Geller has thoughtfully provided you
>with?  Or did you miss his invitation?  Funny how often people do
>that.

No I didn't miss his invitation.  I sent him a thank you note.  I didn't post
it, because I didn't think anyone would find it interesting. I'd say your
high and mighty and judgemental yourself.


>
>Again I detect this tone that we *owe* you some kind of explanation,
>and that if we don't feel that obligation, we are mentally deficient.
>More horseshit.

I never intended such a thing.  I just wanted information from people.
I think you are a bit paranoid in reading things like "mentally deficient"
into my words.  My opinion of you or magick shouldn't have any basis on
what you do or feel.  If it does, then you are giving me more power
than I deserve.


>
>Ah, how nice.  Is this the Year of Blaming the Victim or what?  While
>you make a fine strategic suggestion for the acceptance of magickians,
>namely their being more public, it makes no sense to contend that we
>somehow deserve the shitty treatment you keep panning out because we
>don't want to talk to you with your high and mighty attitude.

Look, just mellow out man.  If you can't take any heat for you ideas,
then you must be pretty unsure of them yourself.

>
>"Don't be surprised" is a smokescreen for "you deserve it."  I am
>queer, and I've encountered this reasoning many, many times.  It
>exposes your bigotry quite nicely.  Magickians are no more obligated
>to speak about their practices to you than queers are to explain to
>straights the exact fashion in which we fuck.  When it's been
>explained to you exactly how to do it if *you* want to, you've reacted
>with the familiar silence.

I never said "you deserve it".  I just said that that is the way society
tends to be.  I don't like to be considered a bigot.  Why is it that
I get called a bigot, when I try and challenge someone's belief system.