HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Ullrich_Fischer@mindlink.bc.ca (Ullrich Fischer)
Subject: Re: Salman Rushdie lives ... sort of
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 07:23:16 GMT

For those with a short window on this newsgroup, the following is the posting
to which the message (on the face of it) from Phil Linttell referred:

Salman Rushdie was in Canada recently and got a bit of media attention.

It once again raises the question as to why any democratic country in the
world still has anything to do with Iran or allows Iranian embassies to
remain open while this outrage continues.

Rushdie's case sets a truly horrifying precedent.  As long as this situation
continues, it means that any country whose government you have offended can
openly order you killed and put a price on your head.   Of course, if the
threat against Rushdie is carried out, and someone manages to collect the
$US 2,000,000 for killing him, the same precedent will be made even
more forcibly.   While the theocrats of Iran continue to get away with this
indefensible campaign, it encourages all the other religious fanatics of the
world.   Will we return to the days of the Inquisition and watch our best and
brightest people being burned alive for publishing words which contradict
religious dogma?

Until the Iranian government rescinds the death penalty on Rushdie (who is a
citizen of the UK), there is no justification for treating the Iranian
government as anything other than the gang of thugs they are.







--
Ullrich_Fischer@mindlink.bc.ca     If God had meant us to be religious
fundamentalists, He wouldn`t have given us brains.  "What makes a person so
poisonous righteous, that he thinks less of anyone who just disagrees?" -
Moxy Fruvous
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.news-media,soc.history
From: erics@sco.COM (eric smith)
Subject: Re: Princess Diana, Somalia, NY Times, history
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:14:41 GMT


jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:

>   erics@sco.COM (eric smith) writes...

>   >I think the only importance newspapers place on stories is
>   >how many papers they will sell.

>   It's more complicated than this. When a newspaper has a steady and
>   loyal audience, the editors have the freedom to pursue a second-order
>   agenda beyond just bringing in more readers. The exact nature of
>   the this agenda will depend on the paper's audience. For the
>   Times, it might be imparting historical awareness. For a
>   tabloid, it might be combatting racism. The second-order agenda,
>   I suspect, is what attracts most journalists to the profession,
>   and makes the print media, at least, the center of missionary
>   activity in our society, rather than religious institutions.

>In the case of the New York Times, the editors of different parts of
>the paper are allowed to pursue their own ideological agendas to
>a considerable extent.  The editor of the Tuesday science section has
>a very strong green agenda and isn't anywhere near so interested
>in the physical sciences.

The subject of discussion was page one stories, in particular Princess
Diana vs. the relief effort in Somalia. I don't think that historical
awareness, combatting racism, contemporary missionary activity, green
agendas, or physical sciences have anything to do with the topic that
was being discussed. The Diana and Somalia stories are the same ones
that are on most magazine covers and newspaper front pages this week,
and in each case the prime motive is sales. You want to intellectualize
it to show that you understand the subtle turnings of American journalism,
but sometimes it's really just more simple than that.

-----
Eric Smith
erics@sco.com
erics@infoserv.com
CI$: 70262,3610

Xref: sparky misc.headlines:7282 talk.politics.misc:64140 talk.politics.mideast:23418 alt.conspiracy:13139 alt.censorship:9620
From: dave@frackit.UUCP (Dave Ratcliffe)
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast,alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship
Subject: Re: ARF on Pollard
Date: 10 Dec 92 22:41:42 GMT
Followup-To: misc.headlines
Organization: Data Factory Services, Harrisburg, Pa.


 In article <ByJCuA.A5n@ddsw1.mcs.com>, arf@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Jack Schmidling) writes:
 > 
 >  Now that all the myths and propaganda concerning Pollard have been presented 
 >  by the "Israel can do no wrong" crowd, it seems appropriate to present the 
 >  facts.....

Fine. Let us all know when you get them. 

-- 
 vogon1!compnect!frackit!dave@psuvax1.psu.edu            |  Dave Ratcliffe  |
 - or - ..uunet!wa3wbu!frackit!dave                      |  Sys. <*> Admin. |
                                                         | Harrisburg,  Pa. |
Xref: sparky misc.headlines:7297 talk.politics.misc:64516 talk.politics.mideast:23559 alt.conspiracy:13227 alt.censorship:9664
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 05:27:18 GMT

In article <12088@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM> mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson) writes:
>In <1992Dec4.222026.3727@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>|In article <1992Dec3.015949.22567@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:

>|>What makes you think that the jury is so perfect, clever and immune to
>|>manipulation? 

>|Nothing, but I'd be at least as inclined to trust their opinion, given
>|that they were actually in the courtroom, as yours.

>Did you happen to feel the same way about the jury in the Rodney King case?

That I'd be at least as inclined to trust their opinion as Jake's?  Yes.

But seriously, the parallel doesn't hold.  In the RK case, the act was
on tape.  There was no question as to whether they had done it; they
didn't deny it.  The question was whether it was justified.  (Not to
mention that I watched most of the trial on Court TV.)

In the Crown Heights case, there wasn't (incontrovertible) proof that 
Nelson had committed the murder.  

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | Is it too early to start making predictions for 1993?
niepornt@phoenix.    | Probably, but that never stopped me before.
   princeton.edu     | ALE: Baltimore ALW: Chicago NLE: Montreal NLW: Atlanta
Baltimore Orioles 93 | AL MVP: Cal Ripken  AL Cy Young: Mike Mussina
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast,alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship
From: harry@hershele.alf.dec.com (Harry Katz)
Subject: Re: ANDERSON TO HEAD CNI
Followup-To: misc.headlines,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.misc,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship,soc.culture.arabic
Organization: DEC - Customer Support Center, Alpharetta, GA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:11:20 GMT


        One time presidential candidate and former congressman, John
        Anderson has been named president of the Council for the
        National Interest.

        CNI was established in 1989 by a group of former congressmen
        and diplomats to provide a counter balance to the heavy
        handed Pro-Israel Lobby.

        ...he was a strong supporter of Israel in his public life.
        After returning to private life he had a chance to visit the
        Mideast and learn the reality of the situation.  He now
        realizes that we have been systimatically lied to by our
        government, their government and the media.


A fine example of a typical politician!  As a member of government he
could not find the time to investigate, so he blindly supported
government policy.  Now that he has been retired from politics he
suddenly decides to do the job the voters expected of him in the first
place!

Perhaps when he retires from the Council for the "National Interest" he
will investigate and find out the truth about them!

Harry Katz
From: f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.headlines
Subject: RE: India and Afghanistan
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:12:31 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <17DEC199207482152@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov>, packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) writes:
> In article <BzCwyq.vr@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v122npej@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Sareer A Fazili) writes...
>>running a holocaust of Nazi proportions in Kashmir for the past 3 years, but
> 
> 
> Hmm. Maybe hyperbole is just part of the culture.
> 
From reports I've picked up over shortwave, the situation is extremely
serious with human rights down the drain for the Moslem population.
The reports of extreme brutality are matched only by the lack of reports
on the situation in this country's controlled media.

-Joe Gaut 
 
Xref: sparky misc.headlines:7301 talk.politics.misc:64568 talk.politics.mideast:23569 alt.conspiracy:13242
From: bigbro@netlink.cts.com (Kenneth Sullivan)
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast,alt.conspiracy,alt.censo
Subject: Re: ARF's racist remark was:Re: Treason vs. Espionage
Date: 16 Dec 92 22:27:14 GMT
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

> >|>  themselves African-Americans, they are implying a desire to 
> >|>  promote a different culture.
> >|>  
> >|>  js
> >They can call themselves anything they like and i for 
> >one will respect their contribution to MY culture.
> >
> >Yes, Schmidling, you filthy racist, African Americans
> >are just as American as you are.  In fact, you 
> >have shown you do not understand the basic principles that 
> >the United States depends upon. I for one am ashamed that
> >you exist to shame the name of my great country.
> 
> I don't know where to begin editing this rubbish so I left in in tact.
> 
> All I said was the African Americans are (by definition) promoting African
> culture.  Everything you said in response is nothing by hateful rubbish
> because you can't think of anything objective to say about what is 
> a given and are to stupid to keep your mouth shut.

Well I do not think that because certain people wished to be called 
African-Americans, that they are expressing a desire to promote an 
African culture.  I think it has been said repeatadly, to the point of 
cliche, that America has no excat defined culture, but is the culmination 
of several cultures around the world.  It has also been said recently 
that groups should maintain a certain level of cultural identity when 
assimlating to America, because it is important to know what one's 
ancestors did.  The term African-American is mostly in response to the 
somewhat negative connotation of the word 'black.'  Anyway, it is more 
specific in some ways, but wrong in others, but I see how one could be 
upset by a label.  If one refers to me as an 'Anglo-Saxon' they are very 
wrong, I do not care very much however.  Anyway, my point is that the 
term has very little to do with promoting a pure African culture(which is 
also difficult to define) as it is a title promoting knowledge of 
ancestors.

--                    
INTERNET:  bigbro@netlink.cts.com (Kenneth Sullivan)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!bigbro
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast,alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship
From: equnlivn@unix1.tcd.ie (Eoin P. O'Coindealbhain)
Subject: Re: ARF's racist remark was: Re: Treason vs. Espionage
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:16:56 GMT

		If your so intent on preserving the 
	American tradition why aren't you livig in 
	a TeePee(sp?) and hunting for your food and
	cloths or is the American culture that you
	speak of EUROPEAN-American culture and not
	NATIVE American culture.
		And when you talk of culture what
	culture are you talking about,the culture
	of the Pilgrem Fathers w/ their log cabins,
	their wood fires,their folk songs and tales
	or are you talking about todays technological
	culture.You can't just take a slice of time 
	and say that this is culture and nothing else
	(10-20 years ago you wouldn't be using 
	computers to communicate like this).

Newsgroups: misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast,alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: Treason vs. Espionage  was:Re: ARF on Pollard
Reply-To: Hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron, Experiment ZEUS bei HERA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 02:16:41 GMT

In article <EGGERTJ.92Dec9005350@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu>,
eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41) writes:

|>In article <Byo12r.LAL@ddsw1.mcs.com> arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
|>writes:
|>>   Why don't we start right here?  I will offer enemy acts and the FOI can
|>>   balance the list....
|>>
|>>   1.   USS Liberty  31 dead American sailors, 151 wounded
|>>   2.   Pollard, treason
|>>   3.   Nuclear triggers. 809 stolen from the US.
|>>   4.   Threatened to use nukes if we didn't support them against Egypt.
|>>   5.  Government officials call Pres Bush an antisemite.
|>>   6.  Prime minister repeatedly lies to US president.
|>
|>5 and 6 seem to be rather silly.  6 especially, as one should _expect_
|>a politician to lie.

Plus we are talking of Prez "October surprize" George "Iran Contra" Herbert
"Watch my lips" Walker "I will do anything I need to to get re-elected Bush.

ObCon: George Bush eats live babies. Quayle prefers his cooked with a serving of
Broccolli and potatoees.

|>But you forgot
|>    7.   Terrorist bombing of US Information Agency libraries in Cairo
|>and Alexandria.

And he also forgot:-

   8. Decided tendency towards having big noses, wear funny hats or speak odd
languages.

But ARF never says that one directly.

--
Phill Hallam-Baker
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast,alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.misc,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: ANDERSON TO HEAD CNI
Date: 20 Dec 92 03:15:26 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

harry@hershele.alf.dec.com (Harry Katz) writes:
: 
: 
: A fine example of a typical politician!  As a member of government he
: could not find the time to investigate, so he blindly supported
: government policy.  Now that he has been retired from politics he
: suddenly decides to do the job the voters expected of him in the first
: place!
 


Couldn't help think of McLaughlin's interview with Lee Hamilton this
morning.  He is the head of the Foreign Relations Committee.  John
asked him what he thougt of the move afoot to spring Pollard and he
said he didn't know enough about the case to comment.   When pushed for
a response, he pleaded totaly ignorance of the most evil spy in decades.
Some foreign relations committee.  Wonder if he would have had an opinion
on Walker?  Can't be that he is afraid of the Israel lobby, could it?
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.news-media,soc.history
From: packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer)
Subject: Re: Princess Diana, Somalia, NY Times, history
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Dept. of Independence
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 11:41:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.210911.4130@sco.com>, erics@sco.COM (eric smith) writes...
>I think the only importance newspapers place on stories is
>how many papers they will sell.



It's more complicated than this. When a newspaper has a steady and
loyal audience, the editors have the freedom to pursue a second-order
agenda beyond just bringing in more readers. The exact nature of
the this agenda will depend on the paper's audience. For the
Times, it might be imparting historical awareness. For a
tabloid, it might be combatting racism. The second-order agenda,
I suspect, is what attracts most journalists to the profession,
and makes the print media, at least, the center of missionary
activity in our society, rather than religious institutions.
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.news-media,soc.history
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Princess Diana, Somalia, NY Times, history
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<18DEC199207413863@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Date: 18 Dec 92 10:39:36

In article <18DEC199207413863@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov> packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) writes:
  References: <11DEC199208042064@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov> <1992Dec17.210911.4130@sco.com>
   Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 11:41:00 GMT

   In article <1992Dec17.210911.4130@sco.com>, erics@sco.COM (eric smith) writes...
   >I think the only importance newspapers place on stories is
   >how many papers they will sell.



   It's more complicated than this. When a newspaper has a steady and
   loyal audience, the editors have the freedom to pursue a second-order
   agenda beyond just bringing in more readers. The exact nature of
   the this agenda will depend on the paper's audience. For the
   Times, it might be imparting historical awareness. For a
   tabloid, it might be combatting racism. The second-order agenda,
   I suspect, is what attracts most journalists to the profession,
   and makes the print media, at least, the center of missionary
   activity in our society, rather than religious institutions.

In the case of the New York Times, the editors of different parts of
the paper are allowed to pursue their own ideological agendas to
a considerable extent.  The editor of the Tuesday science section has
a very strong green agenda and isn't anywhere near so interested
in the physical sciences.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: misc.headlines
From: garrett@Ingres.COM (REACH OUT AND GREP SOMEONE)
Subject: What about India and Afghanistan?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Keywords: 
Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Ingres Product Division
Date: 16 Dec 92 02:00:07 GMT

	With all this news about the Balkans and Somalia, I find it
surpising that no news coverage has been given to India and Afghanistan.
	In Kabul, they are no longer keeping track of the bodies
as warring factions tear what little is left of the country apart.
	The headline of an article in today's San Francisco Examiner,
reads "India's Hindus, Muslims ready for a holy war." A potential holy
war in the second largest country in the world would normally be considered
a big story. This was on page 12.

-Garrett
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,alt.news-media,soc.history
From: erics@sco.COM (eric smith)
Subject: Re: Princess Diana, Somalia, NY Times, history
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:09:11 GMT


packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) writes:

>I notice that that the NY Times gave greater weight yesterday
>(Thursday) to the story about the separation of the Prince and
>Princess of Wales than to Somalia. 

>In the Times's calculus, this makes sense because to them news
>events are important only insofar as they are symbols of turning
>points or watershed periods in history. The royal marriage story
>is important as a symbol of the decay of the British monarchy.
>The Somalia story is important as an indicator of the way US
>forces and UN authority will be combined in the future. 

I think the only importance newspapers place on stories is
how many papers they will sell.

-----
Eric Smith
erics@sco.com
erics@infoserv.com
CI$: 70262,3610

From: byrnes@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Byrnes)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:47:17 GMT
Subject: Re: Tow chains or slings?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: misc.rural

> 
> I just took delivery of my new 4X4 sport utility vehicle. I want to
> get a chain or nylon tow strap to use to pull somebody out of a ditch
> if necessary.
> 

Post a note at your local climbing/outdoor shop.  Offer $20 for a 
retired 11mm climbing rope.  They're 150-165 feet long, designed to
absorb shock, easy to tie/untie and they're light weight.  Climbers
have to retire them after about 5 years (safety concerns) so they 
usually have several laying around collecting dust.  I have one in
each vehicle, and give them to my friends.

I pull people out all the time (sometimes me :-) ).  The extra length
gives you more options, and there's hardly a shock due to the stretch.

John

Newsgroups: misc.rural,sci.energy,ks.misc
From: kyoder@vines.colostate.edu (Ken Yoder)
Subject: Re: Underground Design <-- Sources?
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:44:26 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University

In article <1gijcqINNeoj@tony.ksu.ksu.edu> camelsho@tony.ksu.ksu.edu (   James A Seymour   ) writes:
>From: camelsho@tony.ksu.ksu.edu (   James A Seymour   )
>Subject: Underground Design <-- Sources?
>Date: 14 Dec 1992 12:22:18 -0600
>I have been doing a little reading lately on UnderGround 
>Homes and their construction.  I currently go to a major
>land grant university through which I can get books through
>the interlibrary loan system.  I'm wanting to read a
>few good referances on UGH's.
>
>I'm especially wanting something with a good treatment of
>underground vs passive solar heating.  It seems to me that
>a building that relies on solar to provide a great portion
>of its heating would have to sacrifice some of the benefits
>of underground living.  The major drawback I can see is
>the thermal loss caused by the need to expose the building
>to the south.
>
>I'm not in a big hurry.  I'm eventually hoping to get to
>the point where I could build my own home.  I'm also
>convinced that if I do so, it will be at least a bermed
>home.  This project might just be a pipe dream.
>However, I'd like to start thinking about a few things
>so they have an adequate time period to percolate.
>
>Thanks for any thoughts and possible referances,
>
>         james seymour/camel/camelsho@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
>                       1-800-729-0730
Just a note on earth-berm homes...  We recently bought an earth-berm home
in the Colorado mountains.  It is also a passive (and active) solar home.
We have an earth covered roof, east and west sides are about 1/2 dirt, and
the front (south) has the lower 3 feet in dirt.  The majority of the exposed
south side is glass windows.  We are not on the power grid and our only
heating besides the passive gain is a wood burning stove.

So much for the setup.  The point is that the thermal loss due to the exposed
south side can be very little.  We got home late one night and did not build
a fire.  The temp inside was 66 and 22 outside.  In the morning the inside 
temp was 60 and the outside temp was 5!  We have never seen the inside temp
fall below 58F.  We sometimes have to open the windows during the day because
the passive gain is so great (this is in the winter with outside temps around
30-40).  It can easily get to 75-80F.  We frequently build a fire because we 
want one, not because we need one!

I won't get into exact construction details...  My point is that is very 
possible to build a passive solar, earth-berm house with very little thermal
loss to the exposed south side.  The passive solar house is bright and 
cheery.  You never feel like you are living in a hole or cave!

Good luck if you decide to go this route.  We didn't build this house, but 
it is the only kind of house I would build in the future.

Ken Yoder
kyoder@lamar.colostate.edu
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: donb@crash.cts.com (Donald Bowen)
Subject: Re: WANTED: service manual for Oliver 70
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 15 Dec 92 21:33:43 GMT

 Tomrrow I will post the address of the Jensen Sales Co.  I do not have the 
address here at work.  They have tractor shop manuals.

	DonB