From: agr00@ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: LDS: Can LDS be Saved?
Date: 29 Sep 92 01:52:21 GMT
Reply-To: agr00@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose)
Distribution: na
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <92271.111609HISWJH@BYUVM.BITNET> HISWJH@BYUVM.BITNET writes:
>
>Let us assume, for the sake of argument, that the
>fundamentalists are right about Mormonism.  The question then
>arises, can Mormons, as Mormons, be saved?  Or must they
>abandon Mormonism to be saved?
>
>I am LDS.  I believe that Christ was the Son of God, and that I
>can be saved only through His atonement.  I believe I have been
>born again and accepted Christ as my savior.  Can Christ atone
>for my "sin" of "heresy" in regard to my other superfluous LDS
>beliefs and practices?
>
>If the answer is yes, then are not Mormons, at least in some
>sense, Christians?  If Christ has saved me, am I not a Christian
>by fundamentalist standards?
>
>If the answer is no, then does this not clearly mean that
>something more that just faith in Christ that is required for
>salvation?  There is obviously some additional intellectual
>assent to certain types of doctrines or ideas that are required.
>Can we only be be saved by Christ if we believe in certain
>fundamentalist doctrines about the nature of Christ?  Or can
>Christ save anyone who accepts him, even if that person may
>not have a full and proper understanding of all doctrines?  Are
>there certain things you must believe or not believe in order to
>be saved, beyond simple faith in Christ?
>
>If Christ can't save a Mormon in his sin of heresy, how can He
>save a fundamentalist in his sins.


Let me attempt to answer yoru questions with an explaination.  You are
right when you say that "Faith in Christ" is what saves.  But you have to
ask yourself, What faith?  And what Christ?

Now I know that this sounds strange.  But follow with me.  When I say
what faith, I mean, what kind of faith do you have in Christ?  You say, "I
believe in Christ and that I am saved by his atonement".  But those words
can possibly cover up what you may really believe.  Do you believe that
you have sinned and that because of this you are separated from God?  If
so, do you think there is anything you can DO to again be with God's
righteousness?  You see, God knew that we could not DO anything that
could make us that way again.  So he sent Jesus, Jesus lived a perfect
life, and was sacrificed for us.  He took the death that we would have to
pay for our sin.  For that to apply to us, we have to accept that (which
is to receive Jesus as our personal Saviour).  If you think Jesus' death
was an atonement for something that you could not do, and are grateful for
for that, but now think that you still have to DO other things to be
righteous for God, then you do not have 100% faith in Jesus to save you.
You still think that there are things that you have to do to get to that
point (baptism, word of wisdom, tithings, celestial marriage, etc...).
Let me explain the LDS and Christian position with an analogy:  Man of the
LDS posters are from BYU, so lets use college as the analogy:

Suppose, you want to go to college, but you don't have the grades, or any
where near the finacial support to attend college.  Nothing you can do
can get you the grades or money to go, so you just cannot go.   But then
Jesus comes along and takes the entrance exam for you and gives you all
the money you need to pay for your college education.  Now you can go to
college, but you still have to attend classes, take the test and graduate
and find a job yourself.  (THIS EXAMPLE IS THE LDS POSITION).

Now, let's suppose the same situation above.  You cannot attend college
because you don't have the grades or money, so you cannot go.  Well, here
comes Jesus, he takes your entrance exam, and pays your tuition for you.
But the Christian position is this:  Now he attends all the classes for
you, takes all the exams for you, graduates for you, hands you the degree,
it is now yours, and then he gets you a job as CEO of some famous
company.

Now, from those two analogies, you can see the difference in the two
positions.  If you are depending on your repentance, baptism, word of
wisdom, celestial marriage, and other good "works" to save you, then you
obviously fill that Jesus didn't do everything for you, and that you
still have to prove yourself.  That is not 100% faith in Jesus Christ.

What is 100% faith in Jesus, is this:  to realize that you have commited
a sin.  Because of that, you are separated from God.  He is Holy and now
you are not.  You cannot go to Heaven, because you would ruin the
Holyness there, because you are not Holy like God.  There is Absolutely
nothing in the world that you can do to again be Holy.  Thus, you are
doomed!  By accepting Jesus as your personal Saviour, God then looks at
you and sees the (perfect) life of Jesus, and therefore, because of Him
alone, you again can be accepted by God.  This is the Christian postion
on faith in Jesus Christ.  Your baptism and good "works" are a result of
the "new creature" (2 Cor 5:17) that you are now that Jesus is in you,
and an outward profession in the eyes of man of the righteousness that is
in you.  You are justified in the eyes of God, by your faith alone,
(Romans 4), you are justified in the eyes of man through your works
because man cannot see you heart as God can (James 2).

Now, as I mentioned before, second question is:  "Which Christ?"  If you
look 2 Cor 11:4 you will see that Paul is warning us of "another Jesus",
"another spirit", and "another gospel".  In Galatians 1 he tells us that
"is we or an ANGEL FROM HEAVEN preach any other gospel, let him be
accursed".  So from these, we can deduce that it is possible for a
counterfiet Christ, Spirit, and gospel to exist.  If you have faith in
the counterfiet, then you are not saved!  Satan would LOVE for you to
believe that you know Jesus when you really don't, and therefore, he can
use these counterfeits to make you think that you are saved, when
really you are not.  You have to be careful what that "other Spirit"
spoken of in 2 Cor 11:4 might reveal to you!

The Bible warns about other Christs:  "At that time if anyone says to you,
"Look, here is the Christ!, or Look, there he is!" DO NOT BELIEVE IT.
For false Christ and false prophets WILL appear and perform signs and
miracles to deceive the elect-if that were possible." (Mark 13:21-22)

Is the faith you have in the Jesus that was born in Bethlehem (Matt 2:1)?
Or is it in the Jesus that was born in Jerusalem (Book of Mormon,
Alma 7:10)?

Is the faith you have in the Jesus that was born of the virgin through
the Holy Spirit (Matt 1:18-23, Luke 1:34-35)?  Or is it in the Jesus that
was begotten by sexual relationship between Mary and God the Father
(The Seer p.158, Mormon Doctrine pp.546-547, Doctrine of Salvation Vol. 1
pp. 18-19)?

Is the faith you have in the Jesus that created the heavens and the
angels, including Lucifer (Isa 14:12-15, Psalm 33:6, Heb 11:3,
Philip 2:5-11, Col 1:15-17, 2:9, John 1:1-3, 14)?  Or is it in the Jesus
that is the spirit brother of Lucifer (Mormon Doctrine pp. 164, 192-193,
Gospel Through The Ages p.15)?

There are only tw places where man will spend eternity- Heaven or Hell.
The Bible says if you follow another Jesus, you will spend eternity in
Hell. (Deut 13:1-5, 18:20-22, Eph 5:6, Heb 10:29-31, 2 Thess 2:8-12).
Even if you follow another Jesus Christ sincerely, you will still be
sincerely wrong; for Jesus himself said, "I am the way and the truth
and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6).
Which Jesus are you following?

DEAR LDS FRIEND, THAT DEEP DOWN AWARENESS THAT SOMETHING IS MISSING IN
YOUR LIFE IS A NEED TO KNOW JESUS CHRIST IN A VERY PERSONAL WAY. THE
LDS CHURCH, AND ANY OTHER RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION, CAN _NEVER_ SATISFY THIS
LONGING. ONLY A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH THE _ONE TRUE JESUS_ HAS
LASTING SATISFACTION.  THE BIBLE SAYS THAT YOU ARE "DEAD IN TRESPASSES AND
SINS" WITHOUT THIS RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS (EPH 2:1).

THE TEST:
--------
"Examine yourself to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do
you not realize that Christ Jesus in in you - UNLESS OF COURSE, YOU FAIL
THE TEST?" (2 Cor 13:5). All mankind is created with an inherent need to
have Jesus indwelling them--and nothing else will fill that need. "HE WHO
_HAS_ THE SON HAS LIFE: HE WHO DOES NOT HAVE THE SON OF GOD DOES NOT HAVE
LIFE>" (1 John 5:12).

THE ANSWER:
----------
Jesus is standing at the door of your life knocking. He won't come in
unless you invite Him in--"Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If
anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him,
and he with Me." (Rev 3:20). Confess your sins--ask the one true Jesus
Christ to come into your life--surrender your life to Jesus.  YOUR LIFE
WILL CHANGE!! Here is a simple prayer you can pray.

YOUR PRAYER:
-----------
Lord Jesus, I am a sinner. I confess all my sins to you, and ask for you  o
to forgive me. I beliebe that you died for my sins, and I want to turn
from my sins. Thank you for forgiving me-now I ask you to come into my
heart and life, be my Lord and Saviour, and I give you my life. You take
control of my life from this point on. Thank you Jesus. Amen.

MY PRAYER:
---------
May God truly bless you, dear LDS friend, and I pray that the spiritual
bondage in your life will be broken and that you will be set free in the
love, joy, and peace of the Lord Jesus Christ.  Amen

If you need more information, please write to me personally!

In Christ,
-tony