HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: timlee@public.btr.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: "Caucasian" Re: Caucasians don't understand
Date: 16 Aug 92 07:38:50 GMT
Reply-To: timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american

yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang) writes:
|In article <7733@public.BTR.COM> timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee) writes:
|>hira@cme.nist.gov writes:
|>|How many times do I have to whine about you defining Caucasian as White.
|>|I'm Indian, which is considered caucasoid, but not White.
|>|Get it straight people!
|>
|>Last I looked at a map, the Caucasus mountains were not in India.
|>Nor are they more than a small part of the ancestral lands of
|>most white people.
|>
|>I mean, most asian people aren't from Mongolia, are they?
|
|Duhhh, you lost me there, Tim. What's your point ?
|Ron Hira IS right that Indians are generally classified
|as Caucasian in race, but not "white" in the vernacular sense.
|This has nothing to do with how appropriate or inappropriate
|are the designations "Caucasian", "Mongoloid", "Negroid", etc.
|for the three (or sometimes four) major races defined by most
|anthropologists. 

Since the social aspects of race do not necessarily go with
the anthropological classifications, trying to apply the
exact anthropological classifications to current social
contexts doesn't make too much sense.
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee                 timlee@btr.com  ...!decwrl!btr!timlee
This message comes with no warranty, not even an implied warranty of
fitness for any particular purpose.
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: What Separates Us?
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Distribution: soc
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 15:08:52 GMT

>[Bunch of Stuff Deleted]
>
>|>
>|>  c.  Are Indian-Americans Asian-Americans?  I think so, but why?
>
>Man, I can't believe that this is even a question! What the hell are we?
>Just from perusing the articles, I've noticed that I'm the only Indian-Am
>posting to the group. This could be due to a lot of reasons, maybe one of
>them the incessant ignorant posts equating Caucasoids with Whites. 

  I think people here need to be educated.  We need to change the
  acronyms we've been using.  

  Also, I've been meaning to ask, but could you define the terms
  "desi" and "ABCD"?  I've seen them used to refer to Indian Americans.

  Maybe we need a new FAQ on acronyms and terminology.
>
From: ningwang@acsu.buffalo.edu (Ning Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: PRE-MARITAL SEX in CHINESE SOCIETIES
Date: 13 Aug 92 03:00:40 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <9208112101.AA03164@moe.optics.rochester.edu> ng@MOE.OPTICS.ROCHESTER.EDU (Baldwin Ng) writes:
>1) What you think is the trend now in HK, CHina and Taiwan

HK: not sure
Taiwan: not as "liberal" as here, but certainly acceptable among the teens 
PRChina: still rather concervative.. that's not to say it doesn't happen
of course it happens, just not very common (well, a lot of dirty jokes, but
not a lot of action) still got that string of guilt attached to pre-m sec

>2) What can we do about it?

nothing, why should we do anything about it??

>Baldwin (ng@moe.optics.rochester.edu)


###############################################################################
#  Ning Wang  |  ningwang@acsu.buffalo.edu  |  v110r9av@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu  #
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------#
#  The above article was Sealed With A Spitball  |  Life is short---Big deal  #
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------#
#  Nothing should be left to an invaded people except their eyes for weeping  #
#  I have every sympathy for their plight, but if we want to survive we have  #
#  no choice but to exterminate them.     --Otto Eduard Leopold von Bismarck  #
###############################################################################
From: tun@QUARK.SFSU.EDU (Coban Tun)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: test
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:35:14 GMT

test
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 15 Aug 92 08:12:21 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <SHAW.92Aug13001642@whopper.lcs.mit.edu> shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
>That's what a democracy is about.  One way to obtain that
>power is to portray oneself as a victim, 

Another way is to simply have the majority see you as a human being.

>the the point where we
>delude ourselves into believing that the majority will look after our
>interests if only we trust them (Lui Sieh).

Why should I trust the average AA activist to look after my interests
anymore than I do the majority?




Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: Asian-American Guys Superior?
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 13:36:34 GMT

In article <25486@dog.ee.lbl.gov> yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang) writes:
>
>I remember many years ago reading in a now-defunct Chinese American newspaper in 
>San Francisco about a newly-formed support group for gay Asians. My first reaction 
>was that such an organization would be a convenient way for gay Asians (minority 
>within a minority) to meet each other. However, as I read on, it turned out the
>main purpose of the group was for the members to discuss problems they were having
>with their white boyfriends!
>
>Joe Huang

  I've also heard that most gay Asian males only dated whites, and
  are amenable to playing out the pretty Asian boy stereotype.  One
  white guy who knows alot about he gay scene wrote me and said that
  he was surprised so many are willing to play the role.  He said that
  you cannot always "blame" the white guy for liking Asians when there
  are so many Asian guys who clearly favor white guys and state categorically
  that they will only date white guys.  So how can we blame the whites?
  If everyone is getting what they want and everyone is happy, then
  it seems we're the sore observers who are being racist and saying
  that Asians should date Asians, right?  He said that the Asians in
  the gay world don't seem to have any problems about interracial
  dating, since everyone is getting what they want.  So I guess all
  we need now is for more white women to get on the ball and discover
  the Asian man, and then we can form support groups for Asian men
  to discuss their white girlfriends.  We wouldn't need s.c.a.a. anymore.
  Instead we can have s.c.a.m.w.f. and s.c.a.f.w.m. and
  s.c.g.a.m.w.m. and s.c.l.a.f.w.f. and s.c.b.a.w.

  That should just about cover everyone except for me, Mrs. Ayala.
  Sigh, I'll have to go form my own support group.  Bye everyone!  :-)
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj@alice.att.com)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:17:40 GMT
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj@alice.att.com)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <1992Aug18.204801.10225@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:

>  But does POWER ELITE == WHITE ???  That's what JJ is trying to
>  say that he's no more white than we are, solely because he's
>  not in the power elite.  A white overseer is certainly not
>  in the power elite, but because of his skin color he carries
>  the whip, and he is still white.
A white "overseer" is most certainly part of the power
structure, unless the overseer has to beat people
to avoid being killed, and even then, the overseer
has an option of leaving and starving.

A better choice would be a white sharecropper
in this context, and the white sharecropper is not in a substantially
different position. Rather than being beaten, he or she starves
if they displease the elite.  Dead is dead.

And in general:

No, Clare, that's NOT what I'm trying to say.  What I've been trying
to point out for a LONG time is that most white people are in the
same boat, perhaps in a better seat but still on the
same sinking ship, that you, blacks, other asians, hottentots,
or what have you are.

The predominant complaint I see here (and I except the
points to violence, which are a different, very real
problem) is about the POWER ELITE, not about white people,
none the less, the entire "white" race is held responsible.

When I see Pak or Tseng foaming at the mouth about the
"oppressive white race", I see them literally and figuratively
attacking me, and every other white person.  This is both
inaccurate and unjust, and I'm STILL trying to make that point.
Complain about the elite all you want, I'll just join in
with you (and I suspect I can offer a few combat tips...).
Don't blame me for something I'm not responsible for.

Don't blame MOST whites for the situation, they're just
as much a victim (perhaps not in the absolute sense, but
perhaps so, as well) as you are.  If you do, you'll
have THEM against YOU, and that's just what the
ruling elite wants.   They don't WANT you to understand,
and they don't WANT harmony.  It would end their monopoly
so fast they wouldn't notice before it happened.

The points about violence hold between any two races I know
of, any two discernable cultures I know of, and any two
artificial distinctions that a human can make.  In that, whites
are no more responsible (and no less responsible) than
any other race.  Frankly, I don't see violence against
asians being as bad as it is between other races, BUT
that's no excuse for ANY violence whatsoever, and since
it is most certainly a problem, it needs to be solved.
-- 
 Bush    *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   vs       *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
 Clinton  --    *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 Just Say !NO!       *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: IYI4DTN@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Gann Matsuda)
Subject: Re: Internment camps
Date: 13 Aug 92 01:09:07 PDT

In article <3692@randvax.rand.org>, on 6 Aug 92 17:13:32 GMT,
edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall) writes:
>There is a Japanese-American History Museum in downtown Los Angeles
>which just opened this past Spring in what was formerly a Buddhist
>temple.  It has material on the internment, as well as early
>Japanese-American history.  I've yet to see it, but my wife and I
>are planning to go next time we're in Little Tokyo.
>
>                -Ed Hall
>                edhall@rand.org
>

The museum mentioned here is the Japanese American National Museum,
located at the corner of 1st St. and Central Ave., in Los Angeles'
Little Tokyo.  The museum is indeed housed in the former Nishi
Hongwanji Buddhist Temple.

The current exhibition, "Issei Pioneers," focuses mostly on the
immigrant Japanese Americans.  Later exhibitions will focus on
the wartime internment and on later generations, not to mention other
topics.  It is a must-see if you're in the area.  I've had a hand in
the development of the museum over the last seven years or so.  It's
been hard work, but it's nice to see this place finally open.

For museum information, call (213) 625-0414.

Gann Matsuda
Coordinator
50th Anniversary of Japanese American Internment
UCLA Asian American Studies Center
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: Re: What is tacky today
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com (Kinder and Gentler Jim)
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 11:46:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug23.090406.6202@oakhill.sps.mot.com> I wrote:
>To get the "Southern perspective," I suggest we ask Kerry or Dwight or Judy
>or anybody else who reads here and pretty much grew up in the South.

Whoops!  My mistake.  Although I know Dwight's lived in the South for a
significant amount of time, he hasn't revealed his ethnicity to me.  There-
fore, his experiences there may not be very pertinent for the purposes of
this newsgroup.

But as always, somebody else can come to the rescue.  Substitute Andrew for
Dwight.  I think he grew up here.

Sorry about that Dwight, but every once in a while I forget you may not be
AA.

Getting back to the original subject, I've since re-read Ms. Dodd's quote.
I guess it's worth mentioning again that she's only 15 years old.  Teenagers
have said sillier things.  Heck, I could have probably shocked the heck out
of a newsgroup like this with some of the things I probably said or thought
when I was her age.  I'm just glad no reporter was around then to quote me.
:-)

Kinder and Gentler Jim
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 21:45:47 EDT
From: <ZQH@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Racism against WHITE in China??? (was Re: Caucasians don't understand
 <1992Aug14.221158.2273@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
 <SHAW.92Aug14222100@whopper.lcs.mit.edu>
 <1992Aug16.025209.24056@cs.UAlberta.CA>

In <1992Aug16.025209.24056@cs.UAlberta.CA>
mark@cs.UAlberta.CA (Mark Green) writes:
>There is a major difference between racism in North America and China.
>In North America the racism is more subtle, while in China its blatant.
>In some parts of China, a white person walking on the streets alone
>can count on some type of physical attack on a regular basis.  Several
>             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ???
>times in a dining hall I've not been served while all the chinese sitting
>                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ???
>around have been served.  As far as the waiters were concerned I didn't
>belong in China so I wasn't going to be fed.  With this type of racism
>

Racism against WHITE people in China???  Could you please elaborate
the situations you encountered?

As an English-speaking WHITE person, you should have been swarmed
by hordes of VERY friendly & eager-to-please college students who
try to practice English with you.  Other ordinary people should
have paid much more respect and attention to you than to other
Chinese --- the 5th or 6th class citizens.

(FYI, foreigners from rich western countries --- 1st-class citizens
      foreigners from other countries --- 2nd-class citizens
      Chinese with foreign citizenships --- 3rd-class citizens
      Chinese from HongKong & Taiwan --- 4th-class citizens
      ethnic minorities in China --- 5th-class citizens
      Han Chinese --- 6th-class citizens (lowest)
 according to the practices & written/unwritten policies of Chinese
 Communist Government).

I am from Mainland China (I presume you were not talking about the
other China --- the Republic of China/Taiwan) and I just can not
believe you were treated as you claimed.  Maybe you just happened
to be in a dining hall filled with the orthodox Communists (which
is a really endangered species in Mainland China now :-) )  ;-) .
From: detle@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (TAM LE)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Racial Beating
Date: 23 Aug 92 14:23:47 GMT
Organization: Halls of Residence, Monash University


	It is regretable that a young man must die whether he was running 
for his life or defending his honor..
	Please note i am not having a go at any one in this group this is 
just my opinion, however i can't help but noticing that some indivduals 
thinks that to turn the other cheek and love thy neighbour attitude will 
solve this problem. This attitude is rather out of dates as some of you have 
noticed these rednecks..etc will no longer listen to reason(s), therefore to 
turn the other cheek is to approve of their action ...What i am pushing at 
here is a new attitude that is "fight fire with fire " or " an eye for an 
eye ".
	I am rather pi** off (for the lack of better words) because that was 
my countrymen slaughtered  in this latest incident of racial discrimination .
I say we must now make a stand for our rights to exist in the free world as 
human being not to be discriminate because of our racial background..
	What am  driving at in this posting is that all of you who have not 
taken the nesscary precaution to protect yourself then do so ....
		"DO NOT BECOME ANOTHER STATISTIC"
If they want trouble then give them the trouble they ask for ...time to stop 
bowing our head!!!! If it requires then Kill them ......
		"BETTER THEM THEN YOU "

						SINCRELY PI** OFF

						   TAM ANH LE
From: timlee@public.btr.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: "Caucasian" Re: Caucasians don't understand
Date: 15 Aug 92 04:57:00 GMT
Reply-To: timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american

hira@cme.nist.gov writes:
|How many times do I have to whine about you defining Caucasian as White.
|I'm Indian, which is considered caucasoid, but not White.
|Get it straight people!

Last I looked at a map, the Caucasus mountains were not in India.
Nor are they more than a small part of the ancestral lands of
most white people.

I mean, most asian people aren't from Mongolia, are they?

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee                 timlee@btr.com  ...!decwrl!btr!timlee
This message comes with no warranty, not even an implied warranty of
fitness for any particular purpose.
Organization: Sophomore, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 13:16:11 -0400 
From: "Douglas S. Brashear" <db6j+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Racial Beating

On 20-Aug-92 in Re: Racial Beating           
user Osbert Tan@natinst.com writes:
>My question to the net is, how do you deal with this type of situation
>(i.e. racial slur), at the same time coming out of it with honor/dinity
>(you fill in the appropriate word(s)) intact and ALIVE ?
> 
>-Osbert

   Unfortunately I wouldnt know where to start...its just really sad
that bozos like those 5 (and more) still have neanderthal minds and
racist ways...although, I'd bet that the incident was not strictly
racist.

   One of the men confronted the student with a racist comment, the
student replied, and it ESCALATED, no doubtedly incurring others to
become interested and to take part in the melee...I'd bet that it is
almost a natural reaction (left over from barbarian instinct) for people
who are undecided on a particular subject to join the majority, which in
this case, was against the student.  Those who were decidedly against
the the racist attack would obviously not take part (and/or keep quiet)
or defend the individual (in a hypothetical case- this probably didnt
happen here since the news release didnt mention any other fights with
others defending the student- they would be ostrasized too).  This
theory can probably be plugged into the Rodney King incident too...some
of the cops saw one cop beating on RK, so more joined in, whether or not
they believed it was the right thing to do.

    My beliefs on the student beating is that it was completely wrong
and I hope those guys get everything they deserve (just to clearly state
myself so no misunderstandings can be drawn)...I also believe that this
country will not be able to progress socially until such racist
attitudes (i.e. David Duke, racist pig) are eliminated, and such actions
prosecuted to the highest extent of the law.

    Just thought I'd say that, possibly providing a fresh outlook on things...

Douglas Brashear
db6j+@andrew.cmu.edu
disclaimer: My opinions are my own, no matter what anyone else says, so there!

    
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: AA milk commercial (was Re: Surviving in a White Man's world)
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com (Kinder and Gentler Milk Drinker)
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 07:27:48 GMT

In article <3725@randvax.rand.org> edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.225656.8790@novell.com> mvij@novell.com (Manish Vij) writes:
>>On a similar thread . . . there's a new commercial out (or maybe not so
>>new, since I don't watch much TV) that pitches a lightweight camcorder with
>>a nth-generation Asian couple and their little girl who's just learning
>>to walk.
>
>It's a milk commerical, of all things.  There was an earlier milk commercial
>with an Asian woman (I believe the same actress) as a substitute teacher.
>
>The nice thing about these commericals is that any race could have been
>cast in these roles without change, and that the situations are so, well,
>American.  ("Honey, get the camera!  Daddy's little girl is walking!")

Yup!  I agree.  I love that commercial.

However, does it have nationwide distribution?  I've never seen it in Austin;
I've only seen it when I visit California.

Jim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: rtang@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (The One Your Mother Warned You About!)
Subject: Re: Why do all people whine? (was Re: Why do minority groups whine?)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 05:25:16 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.203221.15440@oakhill.sps.mot.com> jpak@manute.sps.mot.com (Ugly American) writes:
>[Ugly American joke directed to Leon coming up; you are forewarned]
>
>BTW, I think it's time we closed the border on the north end as well.  :-)
HA! WE DONT WANT YA UP HERE ANYWAYS! :)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go)
Subject: Re: Keeping in mind that this is AmeriKKKa
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, Rice University
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1992 18:58:40 GMT

In article <1992Aug1.182449.19234@midway.uchicago.edu> sieh@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

>Here's an anecdote related to this.  My roomate who is Jewish told me
>how when he was young, his father said to him that when you move into a 
>new town and want to know where to live, look for places that have a lot
>of Chinese restaurants.  Why Chinese restaurants?  Because that is where
>the Jews live.

Why do Jews live where Chinese restaurants are?  I don't know if it is true,
but it's at least a stereotype that Jews are particularly fond of Chinese
food.  I once heard Rev. Robert Alper in concert (he's by night a standup
comedian), and he had the following joke:

This is the (somewhere between 5000-6000)th year of the Hebrew calendar.
This is the (somewhere between 1000-2000)th year of the Chinese calendar.
(He wrote down the actual year, but I don't remember what they are.)

Subtracting, you get (some number).  This is how long we had to wait to
get Chinese food.

[Oh, well.  I guess you had to be there.]
From: jwd@briones.ced.berkeley.edu (John Wilbrand Dahlgren)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: What is tacky today
Date: 19 Aug 1992 21:13:45 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: briones.ced.berkeley.edu

I just read the following piece in the San Francisco
chronicle (August 18). It is from a feature called
"question man" in which a reporter asks various questions
at different places around town. Today's question:

              "WHAT IS TACKY TODAY"

(answers regarding people begging, the Catholic church,
parents hitting kids, and department stores deleted)

    "Miya Dodd, 15, student, Tulsa: (answers)
     Having so many Orientals in the continental U.S.A. 
     Coming to S.F. I expected to see surfers and here are all 
     these Orientals. I'm part Japanese. I'm used to being the
     one who is different! Seeing so many in the U.S.A. is
     getting on my nerves."

Weird, I thought. Is this a common attitude out in Tulsa?
Actually now that I think about it, it reflects the 
"exotic asian girlfriend" theory. Are AF's considered 
more exotic out in the midwest? They certainly aren't 
a rarity here at U.C. Berkeley (enrollment is about 1/3 asian)
What about AM?

Jack Dahlgren
jwd@ced.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.motss
From: rjchou@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Ri Jen Chou)
Subject: Re: AM/CM - Gay Colonialism?
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin, Texas
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:53:18 GMT

lam@popeye.comm.mot.com (Dan Lam) writes:
>You are what you are.  You dont need to be AMERICANIZED engouh to be
>what you are.  Come on Arthur, you make it sounds like homosexuality is an
>American thing.  I am sure gay asians exist.

Yup.  *LOTS* of us around.

-- 
Ri-Jen Chou   		rjchou@decimator.sps.mot.com
Motorola Austin / Eclectic Environs