From: kauff@neit.cgd.ucar.edu (Brian Kauffman)
Subject: Re: I *am* presumptuous enough! (was Re: The fundamental question...)
Organization: Boulder CO
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:26:30 GMT

>>: >> = kristyp@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kristy Patterson) writes:
>>: >  = frank@D012S436.sniap.mchp.sni.de (Frank O'Dwyer) writes:
>>:    = kauff@neit.cgd.ucar.edu (Brian Kauffman) writes:
>      = nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>: >> I, for one, am not presumptuous enough to think I know what is best for 
>>: >> every woman in America, or in the world. [...]
>>: 
>>: +> What's that?  A man is going to what?  Kill you?   You want us to what?  
>>: +> Stop him?  Well, we are not presumptuous enough to think we know what is 
>>: +> best for every man in America, or in the world....
>>: 
>>: Just like I protect you from those nasty, evil men,
>>: I will protect you from your own nasty, evil brain...

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>I'm curious to know just how Brian does this.  

Having trouble understanding satire, are we?

----------------
>Against whom does Brian think this evil is directed?

"Whom" indeed!  
o Is it the thinking, feeling, autonomous grown person who is the victim
  in a typical murder situation?
o Is it the thinking, feeling, autonomous grown woman considering an abortion
  in a situation that you know absolutely nothing about? 
o Is it a frozen embryo being unthawed outside a womb?  
  Or an unfrozen embryo being "aborted" via an IUD?  
  Or a mid term fetus that a woman decides to abort for medical reasons?
  Or a late term fetus that a woman decides to abort for sex selection?  
  Or ...
Exactly how presumptuous are you?

----------------
> Also why, and why he feels the unborn do not need protection from those 
> nasty abortionists.

Unborn *what*?  Do you really think *everything* unborn deserves protection?
Do you really think *everything* unborn deserves a right to life that
outweights a woman right to not be pregnant?  
Exactly what presumptions are you making about this unborn f/e/z?
Exactly what presumptions are you making about this pregnant woman's situation?

----------------
>>:What's that?  Some woman I never met, under circumstances I know absolutely 
>>:nothing about, might choose to have an abortion?   Well, that just won't do.
>>:We must forbid this choice.  We must have laws that codify *my* opinions.
>>:These laws must be brainlessly & automatically applied to all women

>No, Brian, to all abortionists.  

You must be joking.  Do you really think:
"Anti-abortion laws don't apply to women -- they apply to doctors." ?!?

----------------
>     Stop trying to mislead a poor Irishman
>about what USA laws were all about in what NARAL calls "the dark ages."
>BTW it is also a NARAL party line to say that what pro-lifers "really" want 
>to do is to "limit women's reproductive choices" and that "fetus-worship" is 
>just for public consumption.

That's nice.  Now, does this have anything to do with my post?

----------------
IN SUMMARY:

My previous posts made two points:
(1) I, for one, am not presumptuous enough to think I know what is best for 
    every woman in America.
(2) It's presumptuous (and quite likely erroneous) to think (presume) that 
    a typical murder situation wherein one grown adult murders another grown 
    adult is in any way analogous to an unspecified abortion situation,
    the circumstances of which you know absolutely nothing about.

Now I'll throw in a third point:
(3) It's easy for me to understand why women would be upset that there are 
    a sizable number of people like you (P. Nyikos) who take exception to 
    the above two points.

-Brian
Newsgroups: talk.abortion