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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:36:00 EST
From:         "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
Subject:      Hope in 1 Peter 3:15.

Lonnie, the word translated as "hope" in many English texts do not mean
expectation but certainty.  I'm sure Mike would say that he is certain of
his election, I do hope so.  I know that I am certain of mine, I am pretty
certain of yours, though I don't know the heart of the Father.  The word
"hope" as we use it in current English is nearly a foreign term in the New
Testament.

Dan Graham
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Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 08:35:00 +1000
From:         Ken Diefenbach <DIEFENBAK@TOPAZ.UCQ.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: Mary - Carol's Daughter

Carol et al

Rest assured that Lyn and I are praying for you and for Mary. One of the most
distressing things Lyn and I have seen was a cerebral palsied man bashing
himself on the side of his head until and long after it bled. This happened when
Kyle was being tested at the Rockhampton Spastic Centre to see if he did in
fact have cerebral palsy. Like some young children, Kyle will smack himself
if he feels he's been scolded. It is the stuff of nightmares for us, and Kyle
is told in no uncxertain terms not to do it.

The assurance that Kyle gets in regular patterns helps keep him happy. That is
one of the reasons I don't think I'll be moving for a while regardless of how
my job goes (not that I'm saying it's bad mind you - I don't mind it as of this
second anyway, but if that 5.4 Mb spreadsheet blows up on me today look out!).
Obviously it is at least as true for Mary. Carol, may God bless, protect and
comfort you and all your family. Thank you for your encouragement and prayers
through the year.

Prayers and best wishes
The Diefenbach tribe
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Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 08:54:00 EST
From:         "Carl A. Lahetta" <U952020@RUTADMIN.BITNET>
Subject: Death Notice! Cries of Sorrow, Cries of Joy

Dear Brothers and Sisters,
   First, I would like to thank all of you for your prayers.  Suzanne's
father made it through surgery and is in recovery.  Right after surgery he
looked like he was ready for a coffin, now he looks alot better.  Still,
his condition is serious due to the type of surgery.
   Second, Suzanne's Grandmother passed away early this morning.  She is the
one that was in the hospital.  She was Suzanne's mother's mother ( isn't
the English language awkward?)  Margaret Daub was 98 yrs old and her last
year or so was not the best.  In her early nineties she was still washing
windows and taking charge of things.  The last year she has not been very
mobile and was very weak.
    My wife and I have mixed feelings, feelings of sorrow and feelings of joy.
Sorrow for the death of a loved one, joy for the end to her suffering.  I
thank God that He let her live as long as she did, I am glad that she did not
die when she went into the hospital.  It would have been too much for Suzanne's
mother, having a parent die and a husband in surgery.
    Now is the time to reflect on Margaret's life and how I knew her.  Soon
we all will be paying our last respects to her and watch as she is placed
in the bossom of the earth.  She was a religious person and I suspect that she
knew our Lord as her Saviour.  Now she is in His presence and is singing with
the angels, and what an addition for she use to sing when she was younger and
was much sought after to sing at different functions and to play the oragan.
    With the birth of Christ so near we are reminded that she can live on
because He was born and died and rose again.  Now she will see Himface to face
and behold His glory.  THank you for your prayers and please continue to pray.

Carl---+
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From: coen@ACC.WUACC.EDU (jim coen)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Family In Distress - Prayer Request
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:12:41 GMT
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Carl,
    At times like these, please be reminded that our God is an awesome God,
    and that He is in control. None of the situations that you mentioned
    has escaped His notice.
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Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 13:18:44 EST
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      Ember Days

(This post is drastically late, by my negligence. I am sorry.)

Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday this week are called Ember days.
Among some Christians, it is the custom to observe these clusters of
three days roughly at the beginning of the four seasons (after the
First Sunday in Lent (six weeks before Easter), Pentecost, September
14, and December 13).
      The origins of the Ember Days are lost in antiquity, but one
theory is that they are of Essene origin. (The Essenes probably
wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls.) The Essenes used a calendar that
divided the year into four quarters of thirteen weeks each, and each
quarter began with a Wednesday which they observed as a day of
fasting. John the Baptist seems to have been influenced by the
Essenes, and some of Jesus' followers had previously been followers
of the Baptist. It would be natural for them to preserve some Essene
customs.
     The "Ember" in "Ember Day" comes from the Latin for "month," as
in "December" (the tenth month when the Roman year began with theb
month of March).  The entree shrimp tempura and its relatives, which
we are accustomed to think of as traditional Japanese dishes, were
invented by a Portugese missionary as meatless dishes for special
days like the Ember days, and the word "tempura" is derived from the
word "Ember."
     Today, the Ember Days are observed as days of prayer for those
who are preparing for the ministry. Some Christians observe a fast,
or partial fast, or token fast (such as abstinence from meat) on
these days.

        Almighty God, the giver of all good gifts, who of thy
   divine providence hast appointed divers Orders in thy Church:
   Give thy grace, we humbly beseech thee, to all those who are to
   be called to any office and administration in the same; and so
   replenish them with the truth of thy doctrine, and endue them
   with innocency of life, that they may faithfully serve before
   thee, to the glory of thy great Name, and the benefit of thy
   holy Church; through Jesus Christ our Lord.
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 11:45:14 EST
From:         Dan Harling <harling@ROADRUNNER.PICTEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Abusive relationships

> Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:08:52 CST
> From: CCCHRIS%MIZZOU1.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
> Subject:      Abusive relationships
> To: Multiple recipients of list CHRISTIA <CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU>
>
> I cringe when I see documentaries of situations where the police respond to a
> domestic violence situation by not taking the abuse seriously.  Telling the
> perp to go outside and take a walk, after which he returns home and kills her.
> (Extreme case, but it happened, and happens).  Some of the stories I've heard
> at a local women's shelter would chill your blood!

Unless the officer personally witnesses an act of violence, or the
victim is willing to sign a complaint, the police can do very little.
____________________________________________________________________________
Daniel A. Harling                        (harling@pictel.com)
PictureTel Corp.             Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of
Peabody, MA  01960                   PictureTel Corp. (so there!)
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Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 14:35:57 CST
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      Teaching Children...

I'm gonna make sure they know ABOUT him, so that later then, they
really grow to understand Him more.! :)
Just like my Folks did with me.  (Smile...)

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:07:55 EST
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      Fourth Sunday of Advent

FOURTH SUNDAY OF ADVENT (20 DEC 1992)

READING: Isaiah 7:10-17
 (Isaiah foretells the birth of Immanuel: "God is with us.")

PSALM 24
 ("Open wide the gates, that the King of Glory may enter.")

EPISTLE: Romans 1:1-7
 ("He was made of the seed of David according to the flesh, and
declared to be the Son of God with power.)

THE HOLY GOSPEL: Matthew 1:18-25
   (Matthew tells of the conception and birth of Jesus Christ.)

PRAYER (traditional)
   We beseech thee, Almighty God, to purify our consciences by thy
   daily visitation, that when thy Son our Lord cometh he may find
   in us a mansion prepared for himself; through the same Jesus
   Christ our Lord, who liveth and reigneth with thee, in the
   unity of the Holy Spirit, one God, now and for ever.

PRAYER (contemporary)
   Purify our consciences, Almighty God, by your daily visitation,
   that your Son Jesus Christ, at his coming, may find in us a
   mansion prepared for himself; who lives and reigns with you, in
   the unity of the Holy Spirit, one God, now and for ever.
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From: rohwerwd@netcom.com (Mr. Tickle Monster)
Subject: Christianity?
Organization: The Tickle Palace - Moonyvale, CA
Distribution: aus
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 10:03:34 GMT

     I thought that Christianity died a long time ago.  Long live the
Science and Rational Thought!

-- 
                                         +---------------------------------+
  +-----------------------------------+ /      Not a net.personality      /
 /   // Mr. Tickle Monster   // Amiga ++---------------------------------+
|  \X/   W. David Rohwer   \X/  3000  /  Internet: rohwerwd@netcom.COM  /
+------------------------------------+---------------------------------+
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Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 12:04:34 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      PRAYER REQUEST-CAROL S.

Dear Carol,

I enjoy your posts and will be praying for your daughter.  With God all
things are possible - Praise God.

Dear Heavenly Father,

We thank and praise You for ever hearing our prayers and answering them.
We ask You Father to heal Mary from the problems that she has and that
You will give her Your peace and love and the ability to make this move
without any trauma to her.  Protect her Father please with Your angels
and put a hedge of protection around her.  Father please give the peo-
ple at this institution the wisdom to take care of her and the other
people there and to show them Your love.  We thank You in advance Father
for her healing in Jesus mighty Name.  Please continue to strenthen Carol
and her family and let her be encouraged.  We expect to hear a good re-
port Lord in Jesus Name.  We will be so ever careful to give You the
praise and the glory.  In Jesus Name we pray.  Amen.

Your sister in Christ,

Shelby--
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Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 14:09:00 CST
From:         Sieg A U R I C H <B882SA@UTARLG.UTA.EDU>
Subject:      Teaching children

Theresa writes:
>>Maybe (If I ever have kids....) they can be brought up in the same way
I was.
ether I marry, or just adopt, I'm going to make sure they
have HEARD about Jesu
and his Awesome loving kindness.
Theresa
<<

Children need to hear about Christ at a very early age.  Why fight all the
influences later when you don't have a base to work from.

We have 5 year old twin boys.  They have both a very good understanding of
who Christ is and even about heavon.  They have both actually told me that
they can't wait to die so that they can be with Jesus!  It gives them such
a good perspective on death, that they are not afraid of it, unlike most
school age children in our country.  But then of course you can hardly blame
the typical child whose parents aren't to sure about death and what will happen
to them.  When we go to someones house that they havn't met before, usually
one of them will ask, before we get out of the car, "do they know Jesus in
their heart?"  They already understand that even Satan knows who Jesus is, and
that there is a difference.

I'll share one more thing and then quit:
One night as I was praying with Matt and Mike, (it was late on a Sat. night,
because we had gotten home late) Matt prayed first and then I did.  I prayed
that Matt would go to sleep quickly so that he would be awake when we go
to "your house tomarow".  As I opened my eyes, Matt was laying there with
his eyes wide open and an excited look on his face.  "Are we going to
heavon tomarrow?"!! he asked.

                        In and For HIS Service,
                                Sieg <><
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Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 14:24:10 -0600
From:         jim coen <coen@ACC.WUACC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Teaching children

I have two sons, 21 and 16. They were taught about Jesus from the crib on.
Even before they were born, they were each bathed in prayer. Every week of their
lives they were in Sunday School and church. They have seen their parents
pray thousands of times, they know we tithe, and have no doubt about what
our values are.

Still, they have been attracted to the false value system of this world. My
heart is grieved beyond words. They are both caught up in and doing things
they shouldn't be doing. They are showing little interest in the things
of the kingdom. We are continuing to pray for them several times each day. I
am trusting our faithful Father to "deliver them from evil".

I encourage all parents to teach their children in word and in deed to know and
to love Jesus. Even so, there comes a time when they will make the decisions
for themselves. The prince of this world, the destroyer, the deceiver, the liar,
is preying upon our children. Television, movies, music and peer pressure are
his greatest allies in this battle for your children and mine.
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:07:04 -0700
From:         cartnaj <cartnaj@EAGLE.SAFB.AF.MIL>
Subject:      Re: Colorado

>
> Now all we have to do is sit all of "those people" down and explain
> this to them and they'll forget all about this "civil rights
> business".
>
Mike,

I guess maybe we need special rights for murders, too!


                                                Joe C.
                                                cartnaj@eagle.safb.af.mil
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Summary: What "family values" can be required of teachers?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sun, 20 Dec 1992 10:30:46 -0600
From:         Tim Rolfe <rolfe@DSUVAX.DSU.EDU>
Subject:      Value system as condition for employment

Who is going to get bounced:  the vocally atheistic social studies teacher
that takes a different woman to bed every night, or the arithmetic teacher
that has accepted Jesus as his savior but, unable to remain celibate, lives
in committed love with another man?

Let's try to make explicit the conditions for employment behind the
rejection of gay teachers:  parents don't want their children exposed to
teachers that live a value system at variance with their own.  Several of
the posts of CHRISTIA can be synopsized that way.

Implementation of this principle in private schools is, of course, no
problem.  Much of the discussion, though centers around implementing it in
public schools.

Why restrict the value system test to modes of sexual expression?  I would
hope that regular readers of CHRISTIA see "What think you of the Christ?"
a far more important question than "Who are you sleeping with?".

Given the precedent some people want to establish, are we that far from
protecting children in public schools from teachers tainted with --- take
your pick:  atheism, Buddhism, Catholicism, Deism, Evangelical
Christianity, Fundamentalism . . .
--
                                              --- Tim Rolfe
                                           rolfe@dsuvax.dsu.edu
                                            ROLFE@SDNET.BITNET
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:08:52 CST
From:         CCCHRIS@MIZZOU1.BITNET
Subject:      Abusive relationships

Julie, I'm sorry this response is a little late, but last week was a blur of
activities for me.  My sympathies lie with your woman friend, and I urge you
encourage her in every way possible to stand firm in her right to a healthy
marriage.  Having been in her shoes, it's hard not to sound militant.  But if
she takes him back without first forcing him to clean up his act (which does
not mean he apologises, brings her roses, treats her like a princess) then the
pattern of abuse will probably continue throughout their married like. If they
break up, their patterns will likely follow into their next relationships.
I don't know how long you've known her, but I'd venture a bet that her self-
esteem has been sinking rapidly.  Perhaps she comes from a history of abuse,
or a negative home situation.  He likely did, too.  If they really love each
other and are both willing to work hard, there's hope.  But to allow him back
into her home without first seeing this through with their councellors would
be to invite more abuse, or maybe death, to herself, and any children they may
one day have.
I cringe when I see documentaries of situations where the police respond to a
domestic violence situation by not taking the abuse seriously.  Telling the
perp to go outside and take a walk, after which he returns home and kills her.
(Extreme case, but it happened, and happens).  Some of the stories I've heard
at a local women's shelter would chill your blood!
She needs support, both financial and emotional, and lots of it, from every
source available in her community and her church.  And she needs to love
herself enough to believe she deserves to be treated as a child of God.
Please let us know how she fares in this situation.  We care!

Sincerely,
Christine Reed
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 09:07:50 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      I'M BACK ON CHRISTIA-SHELBY

Dear Christia and Prayer Warriors,

Just a note to tell you all hello again.  It's been a long time but I
finally caught up with my work and can begin posting to my Christia
family now.  Keep praying for my husband Gene, who is still off work
and recuperating.  I have been praying for everyone while I was off
the network and hope everyone is doing well for everyone.  The following
is a little poem that I would like to leave you all with:

PROMISE YOURSELF. . .

To be so strong that nothing can disturb your peace of mind.
To look for the good in everything then work to make your optimism come
  true.
To think only the best, plan only the best, believe only the best, and
  be only the best.
To be just as enthusiastic about the success of others as you are about
  your own.
To forget past mistakes and press on to the greater achievements of
  the future.
To wear a cheerful countenance at all times and give every living
  creature you meet a smile.
To give so much time to the improvement of yourself that you have no
  time to criticize others.
To be too trusting for fear, too noble for anger, too strong for hate,
  and too filled with faith in GOD to worry about tomorrow's trouble.

Author Unknown

Your sister in Christ,

Shelby--
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:00:14 CST
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      From the mail??? Lemme see...

I'm privately corresponding with Carol N; Shelby; Glen(Glennard);
Noel; Joy E. "Marcie" (Locke)-yes, she's still subbed, I think-...
and most recently Carol L, and Matt S. That's just PRIVATE posts
between these people and myself.  BUT...I just had to delete 30
messages in the past 2 hours.  I'll tellya this much, gang...
I have 40 coming off the line printer in 7 minutes!!!!!
Christia is a Blessing for me in these ways:
1. I've met other Christian friends from around the globe, who
although might worship Him differently in tradition and ritual, but
love him just the same way I do anyhow.  It is a joy and an awesome
pleasure to correspond with folks I've not met-well, I've met Carol N...
but anyways-...Love this list, the people on it, and the list moderators!
2. CHRISTIA gives me an outlet for worship away from my Church.
I'm currently in the ministry with my Dad and Mom at Richburg Baptist
Church on Sandy-Run road here in the 'burg.  When I'm not on the
FRONT PEW, I'm usually either in class, in rehearsal, studying,
or ANSWERING THE POSTS FROM THIS LIST, which I could do 24 hours
a day, if I had the time.....-sometimes I wish I did!-.
3. Some of you precious people from Christia have managed to bless
the life of this God-loving musician through your encouraging cards
and letters by regular(snail) postal mail.
Most recently Noel's card, and gift of the Magnificat cassette, and
then there's always Carol N's cards that arrive on time, without my
knowing-to hit me squarely between the eyes-either with encouragement,
or just...all-out praise!!
--------------
There's one really cool dude that I forgot to say HI to, and who I've
kept in touch with via internet...he's in "oz"..
YO, IAN!......whazzup, mate????!!!!
Send me mail, willya?
--------------
Steven; Madge....God will reward you both beyond you highest expectations
upon your arrival at the Throne.  You've blessed so many lives, and have
managed to keep us all friends when the road got a bit bumpy.
THANKS A MILLION.
My pastor's son, Matt, put it this way when I got a bit discouraged:
"Just think of it this way, "G"... The river would lose its song, if
the rocks were not there..." Praise GOD for a 22-year old diehard
buddy from Ole MISS!
In another word which Matt uses quite often;
S P U D A Z O!!!!!!!!!!
(SPARE NO EFFORT....)
Theresa L. Blackwell
"G FORCE"
"...the G..."
or just, plain 'G'.

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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