From: mike.kozovski@rose.com (mike kozovski)
Subject: e: Scopjian Flag
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 05:20:48 GMT
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Date Entered: 11-21-92 00:17
C(> From article <1992Nov20.182612.25167@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, by pef@dcs.qmw.ac.u
C(> otis Fouliras; TA PhD):
C(> > [Apologies, etc deleted...]
C(> >
C(> >>Isocrates here methinks).  The end result is that, according to
C(> >>Isocrates, P unlike other kings doesn't rule over a related people -
C(> >                 ******************************************************
C(> >>true, on Isocrates' reckoning P is a Greek, the Macedonians aren't,
C(> >>therefore P the Greek rules over the nonGreek Macedonians.  Throughout
C(> > [...]
C(> >>Andy
C(> >
C(> > Again? Another fallacy? "OMOFYLON GENOS" = related race (if not
C(> > the *same* race as I would translate it, just like 'OMOFYLON',
C(> > 'OMOGLWSSON', 'OMOTHRISKON').
C(>
C(> Actually the idea was to distinguish what was said by Isoccrates what he
C(> might have meant if he'd used 'omoethnes' which implies a closer racial
C(> affinity than 'omophylos'.  I think using 'same' here implies Argive
C(> which would give us 'omoethnes', 'omophylos' is a little looser in
C(> classical Greek and here implies Greek - hence my choice of 'related.'
C(> Have a quick look at Liddel and Scott.  Unfortunately however you
C(> translate it, the passage ends up ends up meaning the Macedonians are
C(> non-Greek I'm afraid doesn't it?
C(>  
C(> > Why keep on insisting on something you are clearly wrong? TSK!
C(> > TSK!
C(> 
C(> Because I'm not.  This is the second attempt at catching me out over
C(> trivia.  So what is wrong with the overall argument which you don't
C(> challenge and still works even if we adopt your translation?  Isocrates
C(> says Philip is a Greek who doesn't rule over Greeks, but non-Greeks. 
C(> Not too surprising as he's alreahy said that Macedonia lies outside the
C(> land of the Greeks.  As I have said there are also strong reasons to
C(> doubt whether the Argeads' claim to Greekness will work.  The
C(> interesting point is that those they rule over are clearly not Greek. 
C(> So where's the problem, unless you buy the propaganda of the Greek
C(> government?
C(>
C(> Andy


    It's not Greek to me...................................


           From the ENCYCLOPAEDIA BRITANNICA 1899 Volume XV


    " MACEDONIA,
     when that name is taken in its widest signification, is the country
     between Thrace on the east and Illyria on the west, bounded on the S.
     by Thessaly and the Aegean Sea, and on the N. by the lands which belong
     to the basin of the Danube.

     The people of this country were not Hellenic, though its rulers
     ultimately succeeded in claiming that title for themselves, at the
     time when Alexander I. was admitted as a competitor at the Olympic
     games. The same thing may be said of the land itself, the appearance
     of which presents many points of contrast to that of Greece proper.
     Instead of the delicate, bright, and varied scenery of that country,
     with its clear atmosphere and sharp outlines, we find in Macedonia
     broad masses of mountains, extensive sweeps of lowland, and uniformity
     of colour."


     Rev. H.F.Tozer. M.A., author of "Lectures on the Geography of Greece."


    If Macedonia is the heart Greece then it's time for open heart surgery!
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Mike

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