HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: High Power Certification Programs
Date: 25 Jul 92 23:07:24 GMT
Reply-To: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd.

In article <1992Jul23.191835.24528@rsd0.rsd.dl.nec.com> buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott) writes:
>
>I'm also curious as to the argument against allowing total impulse of 
>clustered models to count, rather than requiring the total impulse from a 
>single engine.  If I can build and succefully fly a rocket powered by, say, 
>4 G42's (about 360 total impulse) I think I've demonstrated a pretty damn
>high level of competence!  What's the difference between that rocket and
>flying an I161?  You've got similar total impulse, average thrust, and 
>burn times.

Indeed. In fact, I would say it would demonstrate even *more* competence
since you've added the complication of cluster ignition to the problem.

- Jack


=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
||       "Harold! You idiot! Those were my mother's feathers!"             ||
||                       - Amelia Bissonnet, _It's a Gift_                 ||
=============================================================================
From: rbs@cyclops.micr.Virginia.EDU (Robert B. Sisk)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Clear fins
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:54:19 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <539@rml.UUCP> jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty) writes:
>My Titan model that I'm preparing for NARAM (mentioned yesterday)
>has, of course, clear fins to "retain scale appearance". I've
>never built a model with these before and, knowing that I needed
>lots of fin area (the model is *very* tail heavy) I essentially
>cut the 3"x 8" sheet diagonally to make long, skinny strips that
>stick out at about 45 degrees. 
>
>They are, as you might imagine, quite wimpy and flop around a lot. 
>I've been thinking of ways of stiffening them like building box 
>sections out of yet more clear stock or running tubular stiffening 
>rods down their length. Then I though, is this necessary? Their whole 
>purpose is to provide corrective force by moving the CP aft and this 
>they will do even if flopping while probably generating a ton of 
>drag (but hey, we're not going of efficiency here, just make it fly!)
>
>On the other hand, something this floppy with probably flutter
>pretty severely, and I don't want to beat the model apart on
>it's first flight.
>
>Stine is pretty light on the subject, so I could use some constructive
>input, thanks.
>
>- Jack

Instead of plastic how about a thin piece of plexiglass?  It is more stiff
than thin plastic, however it weighs a lot more.

Bob

-- 
Robert B. Sisk
NAR #53448				Internet:  rbs@virginia.edu
TRIPOLI #1583				UUCP:  uunet!virginia!rbs
                                        CIS:  71501.1651@CompuServe.COM
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: hrbob@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (robert.e.wiersbe)
Subject: Re: More DOT/Reload Information
Summary: I missed some stuff.....
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 22:28:30 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.220422.7876@cbfsb.cb.att.com> hrbob@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (robert.e.wiersbe) writes:
>Here's more information about the reload situation:
>
>Reloads are "Forbidden" (official DOT term) and can NOT enter interstate
>commerce. They can't be shipped as Class B or anything else. You can still
>buy and use them, so if you are near a distributer that has them, stock up!
>Or you can drive to Las Vegas and buy all you want, you just can't mail order 
>them.

I should have clarified: ALL reloads H and above are "Forbidden". G's of any
type are still on the hit list, but you _can_ get the RMS A-F stuff (at least
as far as I understand it). You can still get disposable H and above motors,
but I'm not sure how they'd be shipped.

Bob Wiersbe	NAR# 44588	hrbob@ihlpb.att.com
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Clear fins
Date: 28 Jul 92 06:28:29 GMT
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd., Livermore, CA

My Titan model that I'm preparing for NARAM (mentioned yesterday)
has, of course, clear fins to "retain scale appearance". I've
never built a model with these before and, knowing that I needed
lots of fin area (the model is *very* tail heavy) I essentially
cut the 3"x 8" sheet diagonally to make long, skinny strips that
stick out at about 45 degrees. 

They are, as you might imagine, quite wimpy and flop around a lot. 
I've been thinking of ways of stiffening them like building box 
sections out of yet more clear stock or running tubular stiffening 
rods down their length. Then I though, is this necessary? Their whole 
purpose is to provide corrective force by moving the CP aft and this 
they will do even if flopping while probably generating a ton of 
drag (but hey, we're not going of efficiency here, just make it fly!)

On the other hand, something this floppy with probably flutter
pretty severely, and I don't want to beat the model apart on
it's first flight.

Stine is pretty light on the subject, so I could use some constructive
input, thanks.

- Jack
From: utidjian@remarque.berkeley.edu (David M.V. Utidjian)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Comments on some Estes kits
Date: 23 Jul 1992 18:45:25 GMT
Organization: Processed People for a Processed America
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: utidjian@remarque.berkeley.edu

A few comments on some Estes kits.....

Delta Clipper: Just bought it  $12.99 at the store (same as cat. price :()
	Seems like a nice kit... ought to be a real screamer, advertised as
going to a half mile in altitude.

Has thru-the-body fin mount scheme but the depth is only about two body tube
thicknesses... should, however, contribute greatly to fin strength.  The
model has streamer recovery.  Kinda hokey paint scheme tho'.

Will modify mine to have plywood fins, balsa dings up too easily, will have
to recheck CG tho'.

Has anyone built and flown the Clipper yet? And if you did, di you get
it back?!


Maxi-Force:  Still working on it, and the review.

Extremely tempting to modify design slightly to use plywood or plastic or
fiberglass fins instead of balsa with spruce reinforcement strips.

The kit basic design seems to be extremely robust, perhaps a tad over-
engineered.  There is a lot that could be done to reduce total mass on
the rocket especially in the engine mount and body tube department,
thereby bringing the total mass within the one lb total weight and 4 oz
propellant limit.  Much can also be done to simplify the design and
construction also.

I am resisting (with difficulty) all temptations to modify the Maxi tho',
I want my review to be about the kit "as-supplied".  I will include
all comments and suggestions with the review.

Astron Alpha III:
Still one of the best Estes kits.  Very clean, very fast, very rugged,
reasonably cheap, very quick and easy to build, just about the best
altitudes from virtually all engines that will fit in the rocket and
eject the parachute. IMHO.  I use mine to "test" the winds aloft.

Other Kits:  Estes could get rid of about 30+ kits in it's line
in my opinion, (your mileage may vary).  Some of them are virtually
identical except for fin shape and finish, others seem silly.

Has anyone tried out the Transroc II yet?

What length launch rod (at 0.25" dia) should I use for the Maxi-Force?
It will tip the scales at just over a pound after finishing and loading.

David Utidjian
BAR

Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: Astro-Blaster Glider under construction: questions
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:52:50 GMT

In article <!ahmpdc.tstark@netcom.com> tstark@netcom.com (Timothy Stark) writes:

>      I already get it! Last week, I decided to buy CA glue at the hobby
>store and apply it to the nose and hold it together for 15 seconds. Then
>it bonded itself so quickly. That is all! CA glue just took only 15
>seconds to cure! Boy, CA Glue is stronger than the nose! :) I had been
>TV ads many years ago. Scientists applied CA Glue to steel cyclinders and 
>hold them together for 15 seconds. Then Helicoper lifted the 15,000 lbs
>load sucessfully with small amount of CA Glue! What unbelievably glue!


Yeah, I remember some time ago Popular Mechanics ran an article
about using superglues. They just rehashed what modelers had been
doing for years: buy CA at hobby stores, there are several "thick-
nesses", gluing fingers together isn't the disaster popular fic-
tion has made it out to be, use of an accelerator helps tremendous-
ly. As far as accelerators go, use Jet Set. This comes in a spray
can and doesn't dissapear like the other stuff (that comes in plas-
tic pump sprays) does.

You haven't seen field repair until you've seen C/L combat fliers 
repair an airplane (usually in five pieces) in two minutes flat....




-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: DOT Bans Reloads (temporarily?)
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:23:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvaac.1992Jul28.222339.1024
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

hrbob@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (robert.e.wiersbe) writes:
: I just found out that as of yesterday the DOT has declared ALL reloads G and 
: above as "Banned Hazardous Substances" and will not let Aerotech or 
: Distributers ship them. It is unclear how long this will last. I wonder if
: this will affect things at NARAM?
: 
: Bob Wiersbe	NAR# 44588	hrbob@ihlpb.att.com

It won't - since the manufacturers will be there themselves. You just will
have to buy your motors on site.

If the ban is true, then they will have to be shipped in the same manner as
all Class B substances. This can be done by UPS to designated depots - you
would have to pick them up in person.

Bill
From: msjohnso@daisy.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Mark Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Launch Guides
Date: 20 Jul 92 12:54:53 GMT
Reply-To: msjohnso@daisy.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Mark Johnson)
Organization: NCR Corporation, Wichita KS

In article <1992Jul14.233154.27273@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>dlm@unislc.uucp (Dennis McCurdy) writes:
>Yep - a number of different systems have been used. Gary Thurible, who
>has launched the largest (by far) HP rocket that I know of, used a rail
>launcher on the back of a pickup truck which was the launch pad. A number

So how big was this rocket??? The largest thing I know of to date is a 
12-inch scale (1:1) Patriot missile, powered by 3 RMS I's and 3 RMS K's.
Takeoff weight was about 150 lb. Launch pad - I don't know. The vehicle
was not entirely successful--it had a radio backup ejection system that
fired prematurely right near the end of motor burn. Lots of pieces came
down on 'chutes, and there was only minimal damage.

-- 
Mark Johnson                          USnail: NCR Peripheral Products Division
E-mail:  Mark.Johnson@WichitaKS.NCR.COM       3718 N. Rock Rd.
Voice: (316) 636-8189 [V+ 654-8189]           Wichita, KS  67226
[Non-business email: 76670.1775@compuserve.com]
From: wildstar@moeng2.minc.umd.edu (Derek Wildstar)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: More DOT/Reload Information
Date: 30 Jul 92 16:51:06 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Morgan State U. / Sch. of Engineering, Baltimore, MD

billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>hrbob@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (robert.e.wiersbe) writes:
>: 
>: UPS will not ship Class B Explosives at all, but Federal Express will to 
>: certain places (is that what you were talking about Bill?) But since DOT says
>: NO, they can't anymore.
>: 
>: Don't expect this situation to be resolved anytime soon (like the next few
>: weeks). It's been a long time coming, I guess.
>
>I suspect that you can thank Vulcan Motors for much of this happening. I do
>not know if Estes was involved, or not - but they were involved with Vulcan
>in making the infamous videotape.

I'm sorry, I came in late, and there seems to be a story behind all of
this.  Could someone please summarize and bring me up to date?

-- 

wildstar@moeng2.minc.umd.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                 Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                         in the Far Future
From: wildstar@moeng2.minc.umd.edu (Derek Wildstar)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Rocketry group in the DC Metro area?
Date: 26 Jul 92 01:54:40 GMT
Organization: Morgan State U. / Sch. of Engineering, Baltimore, MD

I was talking with a close friend the other day, and we were both
reminiscing about what fun we had with model rockets in our teens.  As
the subject continued, we though it would be fun to get back into
rocketry.

So, first off, are there any established model or high-power rocketry
groups in the Washington, DC area?  We are quite near Rockville, and
rather at a loss for places to fly.

Secondly, in related conversations with other people, we have found some
kids that are also interested, and also need a place to fly.

Finally, I am an Associate Advisor to a local Explorer Post (The BSA's
"High Adventure" program).  The post I am with is not interested in
rocketry, but I thought that the BSA Scout or Explorer post might be a
useful core around which to build a rocketry group for young people (the
Explorer requirements are age 13-20, and are the only BSA program I know
of that accepts both boys and girls).  I will be contacting the local
BSA executive about this angle shortly.

I was wondering of any of you folks had some ideas, suggestions, or
pointers on just about any of the topics above.  Does the NAR have a
youth program, or related materials?  Has anyone out there done
something similar?

Guy Garnett ... aka ...


-- 

wildstar@moeng2.minc.umd.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                 Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                         in the Far Future
From: wayne@uva386.schools.virginia.edu (Tony Wayne)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: How do you make a Vellum Rocket?
Date: 29 Jul 92 00:32:44 GMT
Organization: Virginia's Public Education Network (Charlottesville)

I've seen a few comments on rec.mod.roc about peaople making
body tubesout of vellum paper for some altitude competitions
over the past months.  I was wondering... 
1) How is this done? 
2) How is the engine mounted?  
3) Is a standard balsa nosecone used?  
4) Do they vellum rockets use a tumble recovery?  
5) Is the vellum paper rocket really that much lighter than the
   cardboard tube body?
6) How sturdy are these rockets ...i.e. can C5's be used in
   them?
7) Did I ask every possible question?
-Tony Wayne
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: tstark@netcom.com (Timothy Stark)
Subject: Re: Astro-Blaster Glider under construction: questions
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 03:08:14 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

pfeiffer@nmsu.edu (Joe Pfeiffer) writes:

>In article <5026@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:

>   In article <9yamx_a.tstark@netcom.com>, tstark@netcom.com (Timothy Stark) writes:
>   >      Help! I have a problem with the glider. I tried to bond the balsa
>   > wood's nose but it does not work because glue is not good. What glue
>   > do you recommened to bond the parts to form the nose? I tried with
>   > adhesive glue but it does not work because balsa wood is too strong to
>   > separate from bonding. Please reponse me as soon as possible. Thanks!

>   I figured I'd leave this posting alone for a couple of days and see if
>   anyone else understood it.  No one has responded.  I don't understand it
>   either.  In particular, I have no idea what "balsa wood is too strong to
>   separate from bonding" means.  Maybe if you re-post your questions you
>   can get somebody to answer it.

>I didn't answer before because I haven't seen the kit, but I suspect
>you are saying the nose uses a built-up construction, which requires
>warping some balsa strips over some bulkheads (standard model airplane
>practice, strange for model rockets).  Anyway, if you're doing what I
>think you are, and if you meant to say, ``too strong to keep from
>separating before the glue cures,'' the standard answer is to hold it
>together with pins while it cures.  Either sewing pins (my wife hides
>them from me now), or you can buy T-shaped pins at hobby shops.

>I'm also not sure what you mean by adhesive glue -- is there any other
>kind?  Anyway, I'd probably epoxy it using a nice slow-setting epoxy.

>-Joe.

Hello Joe and everyone:

      I already get it! Last week, I decided to buy CA glue at the hobby
store and apply it to the nose and hold it together for 15 seconds. Then
it bonded itself so quickly. That is all! CA glue just took only 15
seconds to cure! Boy, CA Glue is stronger than the nose! :) I had been
TV ads many years ago. Scientists applied CA Glue to steel cyclinders and 
hold them together for 15 seconds. Then Helicoper lifted the 15,000 lbs
load sucessfully with small amount of CA Glue! What unbelievably glue!

-- Tim Stark
-- 
Timothy Stark               Internet: tstark@netcom.com
837 North Van Dorn St       GENIE: T.STARK1
Alexandria, Va. 22304-2723  TDD Phone Number: (703) 212-9731
"Washington, DC is the most deaf population!! -- Gallaudet University"
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: High Power Certification Programs
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 22:55:54 GMT

buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott) writes:
: 
: I feel the NAR program is more conservative than it needs to be.  I don't feel
: that you need to demonstrate every motor power class.  On the other hand, I
: feel the TRA process is a bit too easy.  Just because I've flown my 'Crude
: on a 29mm H70 doesn't mean I'm ready to go build a 12' monster and fly it on
: a K550 or L1500!
: 
: I know that there was probably a great deal of debate in both organizations
: as to the proper way to go.  I don't want to re-open that particular can of
: worms.  I'm mostly curious if a sort of compromise between the two ways was
: ever brought up and what the arguments against it are (were).  Specifically,

I sent some e-mail to C.D. the other day about this exact same subject. One
of my suggestions was pretty much the same as the one you listed.

... suggestion deleted ...

: I'm also curious as to the argument against allowing total impulse of 
: clustered models to count, rather than requiring the total impulse from a 
: single engine.  If I can build and succefully fly a rocket powered by, say, 
: 4 G42's (about 360 total impulse) I think I've demonstrated a pretty damn
: high level of competence!  What's the difference between that rocket and
: flying an I161?  You've got similar total impulse, average thrust, and 
: burn times.

I also brought this up. I also feel that both organizations should work
towards a common certification procedure that is a compromise between what
now exists.

Bill

Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott)
Subject: Re: NAR Renewal for BAR.
Organization: NEC America, Radio Software Dept
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:50:44 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.231204.10651@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>, hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund Hack) writes:
|> I just renewed my NAR membership after a 18 year lapse.  What I got in
|> the mail was my ID card and a list of sections.  Nothing else.  I know
|> that the NAR is a volunteer organization, but I expected at least a
|> "Welcome to the NAR" letter.  Will the rest follow later?  I expected to
|> get a Pink Book, info on NARTS, etc.
|> 

This is one area where the NAR needs some work, volunteer organization or
not.  It seems you have to request your copy of the Pink Book.  Maybe the 
NAR feels that only a percentage of modelers compete and/or would want the
book and that they could save some money by sending it only when requested.

I have to say that when I joined Tripoli I got a welcome letter, membership
card, a copy of the by-laws, rules, etc. (i.e., members' handbook), a directory
of all members names and addresses (sorted several different ways), a list
of manufacturers, and an apology for not sending my first copy of Tripolitan
with all of that.

The NAR could do a lot better welcoming its new members.

I think I got my NARTS information later, in another mailing.  It came from 
NARTS rather than from NAR membership.  I didn't get a Pink Book, either.
You can get your Pink Book and the latest NARTS catalog by sending email to
NARTS at 73320.1253@compuserve.com.  Just give 'em your number and address 
and you'll get a copy pretty quick.  You'll probably also get an email 
response.  I forget who's handling NARTS, now, but he's doing a good job.
Note that if you were to email a request today it might be a while before 
you get a response (as in an extra week or so), because of NARAM starting
day after tomorrow.

============================================================================
Buzz McDermott                   Internet: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com
NAR  13559
TRA   1785
============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott)
Subject: Where to mail TRA confirmation
Organization: NEC America, Radio Software Dept
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 23:16:41 GMT

I understand that Tripoli has changed its headquarters address.  Can someone
mail me the address where I should send my confirmation card?


Thanks.

============================================================================
Buzz McDermott                   Internet: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com
NAR  13559
TRA   1785
============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.models.railroad
From: th@hawkmoon.mn.org (Tim Heimerl)
Subject: WANTED:  Lionel electric train (old or new)
Organization: Semi-Public System (One of the Eternal Champions); Eagan, MN, 55123-2507, USA
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 22:22:26 GMT

Looking Lionel trains and American Flyer trains.

Send me your price and specs.

Thank you.