HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fulk@cs.rochester.edu (Mark Fulk)
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Organization: University of Rochester
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:03:07 GMT

In article <2937207291.3.p00168@psilink.com> "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com> writes:
>I would like to make a passing observation about Texas.  My whole family 
>is from Texas.  All my grandfathers/grandfathers/uncles/aunts, etc., are 
>from Texas and live there now.  I have lived in Texas.  Do not mistake 
>Texas with the United States.  Legally, it is one of the states, but 
>when one is in Texas, one is in a whole 'nother country, as they say.

Molly Ivins's hero, a late 19th century reporter, once said that the
only trouble with Texas Baptists was that the preacher didn't keep
them under the water long enough.

>Living in central New York gives one a perspective on rudeness.  Not for 
>nothing is New Yorker the international synonym for asshole.  One has to 
>go to the City for the full treatment, but it's amazing the level of 
>interpersonal verbal abuse that transpires without fisticuffs.

Here speaks a man who has not spent much time in Paris.
-- 
Mark A. Fulk			University of Rochester
Computer Science Department	fulk@cs.rochester.edu
Xref: sparky sci.econ:9930 soc.culture.usa:10247 soc.culture.japan:14456 soc.culture.british:19609 soc.culture.canada:10532
From: wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.MIL (Wm. Douglas Withers -- math  FACULTY <wdw@sma.usna.navy.mil>)
Newsgroups: sci.econ,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Date: 28 Jan 93 14:34:39 GMT
Followup-To: sci.econ
Organization: U.S. Naval Academy

In article <1993Jan26.165916.13401@sunova.ssc.gov> pamela@sscux1.ssc.gov (pamela gurd) writes:
>This Canadian now living in the US feels that US natives are much
>less free in the matter of religion.  It is strongly encouraged in
>Texas society to go to a Christian church - and didn't a former
>president opine that atheists couldn't be true citizens?

I protest this calumny.  I grew up in Texas, and I was never pressured to
attend a Christian church.  I expect that the majority of Texas residents
seldom, if ever, set foot in a church.  What kind of pressure have you
received?

It's difficult for me to believe that attitudes toward religion in Canada
differ radically from those in the United States.
-- 
Els Withers                   email: wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.mil
          phone: (410)267-3192 / fax: (410)267-4883
When orbiting particle-beam weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have
orbiting particle-beam weapons.
Newsgroups: sci.econ
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: Since no one is defending inflation, (was re: Inflation)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 16:30:27 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.182032.28056@csi.uottawa.ca> cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne) writes:
>In article <1993Jan23.165450.9818@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>>an illusion which creates a deceptive situation deserves as much
>>of the blame (at least) as those it fools. even if most of the populace
>>should know better, they don't -- as such, that is one drawback of
>>inflation.
>
>After the fairly extensive amount of inflation which people have seen
>particularly over the past 100 years, it is NOT likely that there are
>many people who are unaware of the presence of inflation.
>
>It's difficult to decieve people who ARE aware that inflation exists.

i disagree, though i don't think either of us can prove it. when inflation
pushes both wages and prices higher, i think most people only see
inflation as pushing prices higher, and that they somehow "deserve" the
full amount of their wage increase.

>>it is not a matter of basic math. it is just a natural tendency that
>>inflation is often not considered when things increase in price. just
>>as people may "blame" the store when the price of milk goes up, they
>>similarly attribute "credit" to themselves when they get a raise
>>which is in fact just inflation compensation. 
>
>How can you say this in the presence of extensive COLA agreements?
>People DO know that part of their raises DOES relate to inflation.
>People demand raises that are based at least in part on the rate of
>inflation.

decent point, but most people don't have COLA clauses, and i bet
that many who do don't understand them, or have now entrenched them
so much into their expectations that they believe they are "owed" COLA.

>Those that don't are either: 
>a) Woefully ignorant, or 
>b) Considering that something else is much more important than
>inflation.  (For instance, a baseball player that did REALLY WELL this
>year may demand a pay increase based on THAT.)
>
>The fact that they'll "blame" the store for price increases, or
>"credit" themselves with wage increases is another question
>altogether.  It's either that they're incapable or unwilling to
>recognize the reality that EVERYONE that increases prices (for ANY
>reason whatsoever) is responsible for some portion of the inflation
>that occurs.

as an example of the way people trick themselves: have you noticed how
many people view their end-of-year bonuses as a given thing? i know
several people who have gotten into serious debt problems relying on
the bonus that suddenly disappears.

--
charles
Xref: sparky sci.econ:9879 soc.culture.usa:10136 soc.culture.japan:14332 soc.culture.british:19459 soc.culture.canada:10419
From: mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson)
Newsgroups: sci.econ,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:26:39 GMT
Organization: NCR Engineering and Manufacturing Atlanta -- Atlanta, GA

In <C1HGr8.DD8@news.iastate.edu> sballant@iastate.edu (Susan Ballantine) writes:

|At risk of being flamed off the net by all these midewest-haters, I'd like
|to firmly assert that Iowa is really not too bad.
|sue b.
|iowa state u.

Shhhh.  You're not supposed to tell. ;*)
-- 
Mob rule isn't any prettier merely because the mob calls itself a government
It ain't charity if you are using someone else's money.
Wilson's theory of relativity: If you go back far enough, we're all related.
Mark.Wilson@AtlantaGA.NCR.com
From: ernst@isis.cns.caltech.edu (Ernst Niebur)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Date: 27 Jan 1993 10:39:30 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
NNTP-Posting-Host: isis.cns.caltech.edu

 	... And it seems that products and services with
	a decent quality cost more in the US than in Switzerland.
	Moreover, sometimes the US does not offer any products and services
	of quality in some areas (e.g. transportation, banking, breadbaking, ...)
								^^^^^^^^^^^
	as does Switzerland.

Ha! Having lived in Switzerland and living now in the US, I feel
competent about this topic. Yes, it is probably true that you get the
(Swiss versions of) croissants and french bread in good quality in
french speaking Switzerland [I say "probably" because I don't like
particularly Swiss croissants, but that is my personal taste, so I
will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that someone raised
on the stuff really likes it and that it is therefore good quality for
her/him]. But the point is that, being German by origin, I sometimes
would have liked a _different_ style of bread, in my case, dark
sourdough.  Would you please point out to me a _single_ bakery in
Lausanne (one of the largest cities in Switzerland) where I could get
this?  Oh, sure, Migros (the largest supermarket chain in CH) has some
packaged dark bread, pumpernickel style (NO sourdough!), thank you
very much.

Here (L.A.), a bit more than 1/3 around the world from Germany, no
problem at all! Lots of German bakeries who bake it fresh, many
supermarkets have it packaged. And, no, this has nothing to do with
this particular kind of bread.  I am sure if you cannot live without,
e.g., Swiss croissants you would have little trouble getting them
somewhere here. And the same is true for lots of other things from
lots of other countries.

Is the kind of bread you eat that important? Not at all, but it is
symptomatic for a difference between the US and Europe: in Europe, you
get (presumably) good quality, but there is very little variation from
the mainstream, tough luck if you happen to like something else.  Here
(US), different grades of qualities (in other words, this includes
crap), but you will find whatever you want.

Oh, btw, saying that products cost more in the US than in Switzerland,
and mentioning food (bread) in the next sentence is utterly absurd.

--Ernst

PPS: As far as the other two points are concerned, I have lots of
problems with banks in _both_ countries. The Swiss public transportation
system is, IMHO, the best in the world.
-- 
Ernst Niebur                              Phone (818)356 6885 
Computation and Neural Systems            Fax   (818)796 8876
Caltech 216-76                            ernst@cns.caltech.edu
Pasadena, CA 91125, USA                   ernst@caltech.bitnet
From: wbdst+@pitt.edu (William B Dwinnell)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: Inflation
Date: 24 Jan 93 01:00:35 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


Charles:

    You say that "inflation is *defined* as an increase in prices...", but
you didn;t answer my question regarding the measurement of prices in
money. Why? Does it really make any more sense to say that I purchase
an autobmobile with money, than it does to say that the auto dealer 
purchases my money with a car?  We generally measure such things in
currency, for convenience's sake, but there is no mathmatical reason
why we must, and that is what economics boils down to: mathematics.
From: wbdst+@pitt.edu (William B Dwinnell)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: Inflation
Date: 24 Jan 93 00:54:23 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


   Your pound of butter has no absolute value. If I gave you 500 pounds of
butter, your pound of butter would nolonger  have the value it once had.
(Assuming you have a normal diet!)  The only way to explain the
dianxxx diamond-water paradox is through the market. The only reason
we would say that a bucket of diamonds is more b valuable than a bucket
of water, is because we live in a world where diamonds are scaresxxxx
scarce (low demand schedulexxxx (low supply schedule), and water is
(in many places) plentiful (cheaper supply schedule). If suddenly, 
tomorrow diamonds became plentiful, S+D would radically change, and
diamonds would lose their "value".
  Nothing has absolute value, is my point. It is true that some things
have more practical value than others, in the here and now, than others,
but that is NOT the only source of value. Does a pair of shoes have
value? No practical value to me if they don't fit. But they do have
value, in exchange, which is to say the market, the only place
where things do have value. Tangibility is similarly NOT a good
measure of value. When you walk out of the barber shop, what do
you take with you that is tangible? Yet, you have received value, no?

   As for interest-inflation: the only reason I drew the cause-and-
effect relationship from interest to inflation is that interest is
usually a stated value, and inflation occurs in the proceess of losing
money (in real terms). In fact, there probably is no useful way to
discern one or the other as the "cause" or the "effect", bit I know that
people will pay interst for my investment, so I know that there must be 
inflation.
From: radford@cs.toronto.edu (Radford Neal)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: Inflation
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:35:08 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto

In article <2557@blue.cis.pitt.edu> wbdst+@pitt.edu (William B Dwinnell) writes:
>I remain unconvinced that inflation must necessarily be "artificial"- 
>whether there were inflation or deflation would seem to depend on 
>overall economic productivity, rate of consumption of that production,
>and the size of the money supply. (That is, ceteris perebis.)

Yes, it is possible to conceive of inflation (defined as a rise in the
general level of prices) occurring as a result of a "natural" process.
For example, it could be that people cease to feel as much desire to
hold onto cash, or cash equivalents, as they used to.  They might
start to spend whatever they earn immediately, in search of immediate
gratification, or in some investment scheme, without worrying about
whether they maybe need a bit of a cushion for the contingencies of
tommorrow.  Since whatever money exists has to be owned by *somebody*,
if there is nobody who wants to hold on to money, then prices will
rise, as everybody thinks it better to spend the stuff, regardless of
the price level.

Realistically, however, though this could account for a one-time jump
in prices, the process is going to stop before the money becomes
totally worthless, since real people have at least *some* concern
about security.  The sustained inflation often seen in countries with
fiat currencies cannot be explained by this sort of "natural" phenomenon.

    Radford Neal
From: hamachi@adobe.com (Gordon Hamachi)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Act Now to Fight the Deficit!
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:38:35 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

I've read "Bankruptcy 1995: The Coming Collapse of America and How to Stop It"  
by Harry Figgie, and it scares the hell out of me.  According to Figgie, the  
most likely results of inaction on the deficit are:

       A catastrophic market panic
	   Hyperinflation
	   20% of American jobs gone
	   Social Security payments cut or eliminated
	  
Figgie writes, "This is not an exaggeration.  In fact, I may be understating  
the degree of calamity that will befall most Americans.  It's going to be  
awful, and whatever you think I mean by awful, you can be sure that it's going  
to be worse."

I am convinced that the deficit is the single most important issue facing our  
country today.  I have written to my U.S. Senators, Congresswoman, the  
President, the Vice President, and prominent politicians such as Lloyd Bentsen,  
Leon Panetta, George Mitchell, Bob Dole, Tom Foley, and Newt Gingrich, urging  
them to take action, and demanding to know what they intend to do.

Now I urge you too to do the same, as soon as possible:

     The Hon. (name)
     House Office Building
     Washington, DC 20515

     The Hon. (name)
     Senate Office Building
     Washington, DC 20510
	 
	 or call the main switchboard at the Capitol: 202/224-3121

     The President
     The White House
     Washington, DC 20500
	 
	 or call the main switchboard at the White House: 202/456-1414

Write for information, or join:

     Citizens Against Government Waste
     1301 Connecticut Avenue, N.W.
     Suite 400
     Washington, DC 20036
	 1-800/BE-ANGRY or 202/467-5300

     National Taxpayers Union
     325 Pennsylvania Avenue, S.E.
     Washington, DC 20003
	 202/543-1300

     Citizens for a Sound Economy
     470 L'Enfant Plaza, S.W.
     Suite 7112
     Washington, DC 20024
	 202/488-8200

     Americans for Tax Reform
     1301 Connecticut Avenue, N.W.
     Suite 444
     Washington, DC 20036
	 202/785-0266

     United We Stand America
     PO Box 6
     Dallas TX 75221
	 1-800-925-4000
	 Annual membership is $15
	 
     The Concord Coalition
     5959 Triumph Street
     Commerce, CA   90040-1688
	 1-800-231-6800
	 Annual membership is $25
Xref: sparky sci.econ:9931 soc.culture.usa:10250 soc.culture.british:19613 soc.culture.canada:10535
From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: sci.econ,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Date: 27 Jan 93 23:57:58 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX


>Absolutely agreed.  Canada is hugely inferior to the US in all respects,
>and Canadians occupy considerable time and efort ina fruitless attempt
>to try to convince people otherwise.  To the rest of us it looks rather
>ludicrous and a little sad.
>
>Laurence
>

What more can you say about a nation of Minnesota Democrats?

Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: Inflation
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 17:04:36 GMT

William - what's with your editor? or do you just like the letter "x"?

In article <2401@blue.cis.pitt.edu> wbdst+@pitt.edu (William B Dwinnell) writes:
>
>Two points:
>
>1. Curexxx "Curreny as currency" DOES indeed have value. The extremely
>persistent myth that physical, tangible goods are the only things
>which have the elusive (and quite nebulous) quality of "value" is
>simply false.  It is true that money (currency), such as bills and 
>coindxxx coins have little value if used for things other than
>excvhxxx exchange (although they do have some value in this sense:
>citizens of the Confederacy used to light fires with their paper
>money!), but nothing has "value" outside of the contect ofxxxxxx
>the context of a market.

this makes no sense to me. why does currency have intrinsic value?
all it is is a piece of paper. if it cannot be traded, then it is
useless (except as kindling, as you mention). i think maybe the
definition of "value" is the problem. when i say currency has no
intrinsic value, i mean it is useless *other than* for being traded
for something tangible. if you disagree, please explain why.

as for "nothing has value outside of the context of a market" -- that
is false. a pound of butter has a lot of value to me. so does your
money -- as kindling, or insulation, etc.

>To believe otherwise is to never have
>abxx an answer to the Diamnd-Water Paradox.

you'll have to explain what you mean; how your preceding paragraph
relates to the diamond-water paradox is beyond me.

>2. To some extent, interest rates drive inflation. Yes, money which
>bears interest has some of that value eroded by inflation, but the fact
>is that interest is part of what makes iunfxxx inflation happen.

interest is simply rent for the use of a dollar. if that dollar
will be worth 4 cents less a year from now, then i will include that
amount in the rent i charge. you'll have to explain how it works the
other way around. i don't see it.

--
charles
From: wbdst+@pitt.edu (William B Dwinnell)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: New Yorkers
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:43:00 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


As someone who has spent a fair amount of time in New York, I must comment
on what was said about New Yorkers. First let me say that I do not
consider myself a New Yorker, and that I didn't particularly enjoy
working in New York. However, I have to say that there were many things
about New York which I did enjoy (and I don't even really like
cities), and that I met some of the kindest people there.  Despite
the fact that the media have regularly advertised the belief that
American citiersxxx cities are centers of racial, ethnic and religious
conflict, I must also say that I met some of the most tolerant people
in New York.  Knowing people from Europe and Asia, I have to satxxx
say that also knowing social conditions for foreigners in some of those
places (Chinese in Paris, for instance), I'd be surprised to leanxxx
learn that foreign cities are any more tolerant than the American ones
I've visited.
Don't get nexx me wrong- I have friends both in Texas, and in Europe.
One of my friends in Texas used to exalt in the Texas atmosphere (he
was a transplanted Yankee), and the Texas friendliness, but I could
never help but wonder what sort of reception he might have gotten,
were he black.
From: jfh@beach.cis.ufl.edu (James F. Hranicky)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: Inflation
Date: 26 Jan 93 04:45:50 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Florida CIS Dept.

In article <2104@blue.cis.pitt.edu> wbdst+@pitt.edu (William B Dwinnell) writes:
>
>I did not say that I thought government-induced inflation was a natural
>phenomenon- I was referring to the more general concept of inflation
>(which may occur with or without the existence of money), which is 
>the cost of holding onto money or other things of value.  Due to the
>fact that something might be put to productive use, things held onto
>(money, for one) will decrease in value, as you forego there 
>prxx their productive capacity. As for government-induced inflation,
>that is obvioulsly another matter altogether.

I would tend to think that the price of things held onto might rise or
fall, depending on what they are. In a productive economy with a hard
currency, the unit of currency has a tendency to rise in value, so
holding on to it is good (hard currencies encourage *saving*).

On the other hand, if you are holding on to something perishable or
something which might become outdated, *its* price would fall, but not
necessarily everything else. The economy is not static, and usually
replaces things which become of little use.

Over all, one of the main characteristics of progress *is* saving, holding
on to things, accumulating capital for investment and further production,
since from productivity comes wealth. You simply want to be able to judge
when and when not to hold on to things.

Oddly enough, I believe Keynes advocated spending and discouraged saving,
apparently not understanding simple supply and demand (greater supply ==
more stuff == lower prices for stuff == higher standard of living for all)

Is this what you are talking about?

Jim Hranicky (jfh@reef.cis.ufl.edu)







Xref: sparky sci.econ:9767 talk.politics.theory:5705 talk.politics.misc:68996 sci.philosophy.tech:4907 sci.philosophy.meta:3119 talk.philosophy.misc:3402
From: kim_sh@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Sung Hyun Kim)
Newsgroups: sci.econ,talk.politics.theory,talk.politics.misc,sci.philosophy.tech,sci.philosophy.meta,talk.philosophy.misc
Subject: Re: What is economics? (repost)
Date: 21 Jan 1993 13:43:52 -0500
Organization: Homewood Academic Computing, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md, USA
Distribution: inet
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu


Pick any academic department, say physics,mathematics,management science or
industrial engineering, and of course economics, and psychology. And apply
Mr.Wee's reasoning, and then we will realize that there is no social benefit
we get from those departments and we shouldn't be attending or supporting
such institutions.  Do you still believe that *engineering* depts are doing
something practical? Mind you, look at what a typical professor of engineering
does.. [I guess I don't know exactly, but that's the whole point.]
 BTW, note that all the department listed above, I somehow got acquainted in
the course of my studying so that I can say that I have the feeling about what
they are about.
-- 
 Sung Hyun Kim    kim_sh@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu : Economics, Johns Hopkins U.
Newsgroups: sci.econ,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada