HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: Okay, what makes a Gay or Lesbian turn Republican?
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:41:01 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <1992Nov11.181810.7874@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
wrote:
> 
> In article <17895@autodesk.COM> owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
> >Barry Goldwater was nominated by his party in 1964 at the Cow Palace
> >in San Francisco Ca.. In his acceptance speech he said:
> >
> >"Extremeism in the defense of Liberty is no vice, 
> >moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue".
> >
> >The liberal press crucified him.
> >
> >I think it would make a great Queer nation slogan myself.
> >:-)
> 
> I didn't think much of Clayton's quip, but this one ought to go in
> Jess's quotes file.

I don't think much of Jess's quotes file (or Jess, I suppose) - but
Owen's remark was *damn* good.

*X*
(well, I guess I don't think much of extremeism, either.  Even
so - very perceptive, Mr. Rowley)
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Joy of Gay Sex
Date: 13 Nov 92 16:07:12 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Unocal Corporation

In article <1992Nov12.213653.10196@netcom.com> stephena@netcom.com (Stephen Arrants) writes:
>Hmm....I wonder how they've improved it.  Scratch 'n' sniff, perhaps?

The first edition was pre-aids and endorsed what are now considered
unsafe practices.  The second edition would probably clear this up, I'd guess.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rich@netcom.com (Richard Poppen)
Subject: Re: Mouse Balls
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 05:41:52 GMT

In article <2728@cthulhuControl.COM> raisch@Control.COM (Robert Raisch) writes:
[btw, are you the Robert B. Raisch from "Marketplace"?]

>markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:
>
>>of money on yet another Xerox invention (yes, Parc did invent the mouse).
>
>	Ummmm.... perhaps I misremember this bit of techno-trivia, but it
>was Douglas Engelbart who invented the mouse, as well as the key-chord
>which has seen substantially less exposure than that pointing device.
>
>	Engelbart was, I believe, employed by McDonnell-Douglas at the time
>working on the AUGMENT system, which was a precursor to hypertext.  Although
>I could be wrong on the affiliation, Engelbart did not work for PARC during
>this time.

Close.  He and AUGMENT were at SRI.  The AUGMENT project, mouse and
all, was later sold to Tymshare, and Dr. Engelbart joined Tymshare with
it.  (It was there--relatively newly arrived, I _think_--when I joined
Tymshare in mid-1979.)  Only later was Tymshare bought by McDonnell
Douglas.  There is not a chance that McD-D would have funded something
as forward-looking as AUGMENT.

--Rich, who was excited to join Tymshare in 1979
  and even more excited to leave it in 1984
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mbeyer@ubvax.ub.com (Mark Beyer)
Subject: Re: Hell has frozen over
Organization: Ungermann Bass
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:49:54 GMT

>  Safire's column
>aren't always of political bent, they often talk about the (dis)use of
>the English language.

Don't you mean (mis)use ?

:-)
Xref: sparky soc.motss:47300 alt.politics.homosexuality:7122
From: omt1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Owen M. Thomas)
Subject: Re: best remake of gay song
Reply-To: omt1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 22:53:11 GMT

In article <Nov.10.13.56.13.1992.19564@math.rutgers.edu> bgonzal@math.rutgers.edu (Bil Gonzalez) writes:
>Actually, on the other side, one of my favorite remakes is
>Cyndi Lauper's remake of Prince's WHEN YOU WERE MINE.
>
>When Prince sang it, you thought that he was singing to a girl, but
>references nights spent in bed with her and her new boyfriend...
>"..Sleeping in between the two of us" (current mental block regarding
>total lyrical content - help?!) and "I know that you're sleeping with
>another guy".
>
>When CL sang it, she didn't change the lyrics, so you don't know if
>she's singing to her girlfriend/lover, or her boyfriend/lover who is
>sleeping with another man.  It really leaves you wondering...
>
>Bil Gonzalez

Bil, you'll pardon me if I'm momentarily overcome with early-80s 
nostalgia as I pull "She's So Unusual" off the shelf. For your and 
our viewing audience's pleasure, here are the complete lyrics to 
"When You Were Mine" (c) 1980 Ecnirp Music (BMI) used without 
permission (may the FCC forgive me.)

When u were mine
I gave u all of my money
Time after time
U done me wrong
Cause, just like a train
U let all my friends come over and eat
And u were so strange
U didn't have the decency to change the sheets
Oh girl, when you were mine
I use to let you wear all my clothes
U were so fine
Maybe that's the reason that it hurt me so

Chorus:
I know, that you're goin with another guy
But I don't care, cause I love u baby that's no lie
Love u more than I did when u were mine

When u were mine
U were kindasorta my best friend
So I was blind
I let u fool around
I never cared
I never was the kind to make a fuss
When he was there
Sleepin in between the two of us

Chorus

When u were mine
U were all I ever wanted to do
Now I spend my time
Following him whenever he's with u

Chorus


"Oh girl" is ambiguous. However, the emphasis is that CL's lover 
is "goin with _another_ guy"; this pretty much requires her 
lover to be male--unless CL's lover is a bisexual woman who has 
frequently left her for men, and this is _yet_ another guy.

One could always do a gay male remake of this ;-)

CL clearly has some passing acquaintance with the gay community. 
Another song, "She Bop," starts out

We-hell-I see them every night in tight blue jeans--
in the pages of a blue boy magazine

and "He's So Unusual" hints at a rather specific unusualness 
(but that's just my reading.)

Thoughts on Cyndi? Other artists who can be read ambiguously? 
Crowded House, in their eponymous album, is my favorite in 
this regard. I'll post or e-mail lyrics if anyone is curious.

----
Owen Thomas
omt1@midway.uchicago.edu
I don't do sigs.
From: bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Regarding the Lambda
Keywords: Lambda
Date: 1 Nov 92 17:56:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.Bx1tu8.E02
Organization: Open Communications Forum

zxmfj01@mailserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (Jody Franklin) writes:

>The Lamda was adopted after the Stonewall riot. It had been used in science
>to denote violent reactions and seemed fitting for our cause.

I've also heard that the Lambda was used as a shield insignia by elite
Spartan platoons consisting of pairs of lovers.
-- 
Brent Capps                          | 
bcapps@agora.rain.com (gay stuff)    | okay, but wash it first.
bcapps@atlastele.com (telecom stuff) |
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Politics
Date: 7 Nov 92 19:40:07 GMT
Organization: NIST

Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:

>The thought of *PRINCE* makes me want to "hurl".  He's been
>writing and re-writing the same tired, adolescent songs on sex
>for what, more than a decade now?  The only change has been that
>he's gotten even MORE narcissistic.

What is sacrifice?
New Power Generation in mass attack
Church, if you will, please turn to the book of Victor
We like to start at the top, if you don't mind.

I was born on a blood-stained table
Cord wrapped around my neck
Epileptic 'til the age of seven - true
I was sure heaven marked the deck.

I know joy lives 'round the corner
One day I'll visit her I'm gonna
When she tells me everything
That's when the angels sing
That's when the victory is sho 'nuff

Mama held up her baby for protection
From a man with a strap in his hand -
I remember what I want
Ask the Victor 'bout pain and rejection
You think he don't when he do understand

1967 in a bus marked public schools
Rode me and a group of unsuspecting political tools
Our parents wondered what it was like to have another color near
So they put their babies together to eliminate the fear
We sacrifice - yes, we did
Fighting one another, we sacrifice, yes we did
All because of color
The angel of hate - she taught me how to kick her
If she called me anything but Victor - (like nigger)
If the only thing that tells is father time
Then sacrifice is the mutha sublime - We love it

Never understood my old friends laughing - MD & A
They got high when everything else got wrong - school
Dr. King was killed - Conspiracy - and the streets
They started burnin' - Plymouth
When the smoke was cleared, their high was gone
Education got important, so important to Victor
A little more important than ripple and weed
Bernadette the lady - thank you - she told me
"Whatever you do, son, a little discipline is what you need."

My feet might get tired but I'm gonna keep on
Walkin' down this road and when I reach my destination
That's when I'll know
That's when my name will be Victor
Amen.

Prince "The Sacrifice of Victor" - 1992

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: baskin@watson.ibm.com
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:43:36 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.14n by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: baskin@watson.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

>
>You guys cease to amaze me ...
>
>No one here knows a fucking thing about what Marky Mark thinks  
>of GLB issues.  We're just content looking at his ripped  

Actually, Marky Mark has made tons of pro-gay statements.  He also
sings about safe-sex, and has the audience chant the word "safe-sex"
with him.  He also is on the "Red Hot and Dance" video, which was a 
big AIDS fundraiser.

Check out some interviews with him.  You couldn't ask for a better (or
better-looking) role model.

Mat Baskin
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: It stinks!
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 07:59:36 GMT

brown@NCoast.ORG (Stan Brown) wrote: 
->I can't speak for the original poster, but what makes me nervous is the
->news reports that there is ethnic violence against refugees and that the
->official response is not to crack down on those who perpetrate the
->violence but rather to deport some of the refugees and make it harder
->for others to come in.  I readily admit that all I know is what I get in
->the U.S. news media, so my knowledge is _a_fortiori_ incomplete.

exactly.  the us news media have conveniently dropped the news items
about beefed-up (!!) police forces which have been installed in
certain parts of the new, Eastern states in order to combat this
auslaender-bashing.  

it's much easier to create sensational reports which can be easily
paralled to nazi germany than it is to tell the truth.

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
#     for information on the league for programming freedom, 
#                     write to lpf@uunet.uu.net
From: cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay Ski Week boycott?
Date: 12 Nov 1992 17:37:23 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: unlinfo.unl.edu

tom@flood.com (Tom Chatt) writes:

>wanek@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Wanek) writes:
>| Does anyone know who sponsors the Gay Ski Week in Aspen, and whether
>| there is a campaign to boycott it?

>The upcoming Advocate issue (Nov 17) will include a message
>from the editors urging a boycott of Colorado. I do not know
>if they will specifically mention Gay Ski Week.

>I myself believe that Aspen has been gay-friendly for a long
>time, and I do know that locally they trounced Measure 2.
>(Pitkin County was 2026 (28%) for, 5187 (72%) against.)

>I haven't discussed it yet with my group of 8 who have
>already put a deposit down on a fabu Victorian house,
>but my inclination is toward going anyway. (And it's *not*
>because of the deposit. I could forego the deposit, if
>I felt sufficient moral imperative. I know others who
>have already done just that. But I think a boycott of
>Gay Ski Week is the wrong think to do. See my comments in
>response to Steve Carpenter's post 

>See you there?

I wonder what the fundies would do in our situation.

Colburn Eigen                              H|u> = E|u>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dgilly@us.oracle.com (Daniel Gilly)
Subject: Re: Ugly sounds
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Redwood Shores CA 94065
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 02:04:47 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <mattm-051192102219@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com 
   (Matthew Melmon) writes:

>successful.  And so I am either a distraction - whereby people
>take the time to respond and therefore validate my existence; or,
>I am laughably ineffectual - which is to say 'without effect' - 
>which is to say, ignored.

I validate the existence of toe jam every time I clean my toes.
It does distract me every once in a while, but it has no effect
on my life. 
-- 
Daniel Gilly                                   dgilly@us.oracle.com 
                                               Oracle Corporation
------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: steven@cray.com (Steven Levine)
Subject: Re: Marching on Washington and Protesting Bigotry
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 9 Nov 92 12:57:35 CST

In article <1dknhuINN162@plts.uucp> tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli) writes:

>...(at
>the end of MOW87 there were buckets that you could drop money into, I
>didn't see many people giving money).

You may not have seen them, but lots of folks put money in these
buckets.  I saw people dropping enormous quantities of money --
hundred dollar bills and everything.  There was enough money collected that
the MOW committee ended up with a surplus.

This is not relevant to the major point of your post, but I
think it's interesting in itself.  People at the March were
absolutey *inspired*, and many did put their money where their hearts were.

-Steven Levine
 steven@cray.com




Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyarman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Donald L Yarman)
Subject: Re: Don't teach kids tolerance...
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:00:35 GMT

In article <thaaang.721457838@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
writes:
>You see, us cultural
>elites are so much more important to the world than mere mortals,
>and we feed off of mortals, draining their pocketbooks with our
>infectious diseases and knack for moneymaking . . . 
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Apparently I'm doing something wrong.

--Don
From: bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gerbiling (Nelson, are you there?)
Date: 2 Nov 92 06:34:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.Bx2sxF.EH
Organization: Open Communications Forum

jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes:
>It's amazing how so many people, especially straight, seem eager to *want*
>to believe the rumors (much like the <absurd quantity> of semen found
>in the rock star's stomach (a rumor I believed when I first heard it in
>*5th grade*, but quickly dismissed)).

OK, now you've got my curiosity (ahem) up.  When I heard this rumor,
it was supposedly Rod Stewart; this must have been in '77 or '78.
What other personalities have supposedly gone under the stomach
pump?

Aside from Jason Priestly?  :)

Brent, who has been known to get pumped on occasion
-- 
Brent Capps                          | 
bcapps@agora.rain.com (gay stuff)    | okay, but wash it first.
bcapps@atlastele.com (telecom stuff) |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: swc@fig.citib.com (Steve Carpenter)
Subject: Re: Amendment 2 passes
Originator: swc@swcdev
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 21:12:19 GMT


Well I don't know about anyone else, but I am sure to notify the Colorado State
Government, as well as the resort areas of Aspen, Keystone, Copper Mtn. etc, 
that due to this change, I will not be spending *ANY* money on vacations to
their (un)fair state.  I would much rather vacation in a state where I am
welcome.

I would suggest everyone do the same.

-- 

Steve Carpenter                                  
5 Jane St.  New York, NY  10014-1934
(212) 691-8547                                  CIS: 70313,122
From: black@sybase.com (Chris Black)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Royalty (was Re: Icons and Legends)
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:22:13 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.111349.27627@netcom.com>, cjlee@netcom.com (Caroline Jean Lee) writes:
|> In article <25310@sybase.sybase.com> black@sybase.com (Christina Black) writes:
|> >[Religion in a government-run school] would be unimaginable in the States.
|> 
|> I went to public school in North Carolina (a State, to be sure) from
|> first grade to ninth. We said a blessing every day in second grade
|> when we lined up to go to the lunchroom. In fifth grade, my homeroom
|> teacher had a prayer and a bible reading everyday. ALL our school
|> assemblies, as far as I can remember, had began with a prayer. Very
|> Christian stuff. 

I stand corrected, and somewhat distressed.  I thought that such things
were illegal here.

-- Chris
black@sybase.com
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Boycott Colorado
Keywords: hate activism politics election christian
Date: 10 Nov 92 00:40:15 GMT
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton

craigp@dolphin.sps.mot.com (Craig Petty) wrote: 
->Well, I just called Invesco Financial Funds and closed all of my mutual fund
->accounts with them.  I did specify why. It did not generate any response
->from the operator.

telling a telephone operator isn't enough; you have to tell someone
who matters (like a ceo, or other dorkus in a suit).

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
# for information on the league for programming freedom, 
# write to lpf@uunet.uu.net
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ugly sounds
Date: 5 Nov 92 09:13:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov5.091318.6675
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <mattm-041192170330@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>So which is it, Pootsie?  Laughably ineffectual or a distraction?

There's a difference?

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: OCA launches _new_ petition drive
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:59:23 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <Bwyp7F.ALI@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:

[ ... more scary shit the OCA's pulling on Oregon ... ]

Let me make sure I understand -- since the OCA couldn't change the state
Constitution, they're just going to ignore the Federal Constitution?

Do Mabon's feet get wet (or even damp) when he walks on water?

Sad.  Very sad.

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B4 f w g+ k s-               I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: the purpose of soc.motss (was: off-topic discussions)
Date: 8 Nov 1992 11:43:13 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Nov8.184257.16733@Princeton.EDU> 
spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun) writes:

> I am not going to contest the reasons for which soc.motss/net.motss was
> created; I've only been reading s.m for 6 months now.  But I would like
> to suggest that perhaps the context under which it was created is a bit
> outdated now.  i.e., some of the reasons for which it was created way
> back when  are no longer valid.  Maybe not.  You tell me, I'm not in a
> position to know.

Look, doll, the fact that I'm a nelly faggot colors -- hell,
practically determines -- everything I think about, everything 
I write about, everything I talk about.  I don't draw these
distinctions between the gay and the not-gay aspects of my
life that you seem able to do with yours, and I would actively
campaign against any attempt to muzzle soc.motss.  Could you
please explain what it is, exactly, that you'd like to see
written about here to the exclusion of all else?

Arne
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: robertl@luciano.Stanford.EDU (Robert Lodenkamper)
Subject: Re: Inconsistency re CO boycott
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Stanford University
	<mattm-061192091511@mcmelmon.apple.com>
Distribution: soc
Date: 6 Nov 92 15:44:13

In article <mattm-061192091511@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com
(Matthew Melmon) writes: 

   In article <BOB.92Nov5190157@dolores.Stanford.EDU>,
   bob@dolores.Stanford.EDU (Bob Lodenkamper) wrote:

   > Would someone arguing the anti-boycott case care to explain just why
   > "business as usual" should prevail in CO without relying on the
   > basically irrelevant fact that a successful boycott could hurt
   > everyone in the state.

   Beyond your 'basically irrelevant' fact that the *intent* is to
   harm everyone in the state (as to the reality, I very seriously
   doubt that anything resembling the stand against Arizona will
   materialize); there is the other 'basically irrelevant' fact that
   the fundamentalists will not be particularly phazed, and will
   probably enjoy the opportunity to portray such efforts as a
   'national homosexual agenda.'

Well, for various reasons, Colorado won't lose Super Bowl(s) like
Arizona has, so I agree the stand against Colorado will definitely be
weaker.

As for the fundies' propaganda war, propaganda is fought with
propaganda.  It is stupid to try to behave in such a way that an enemy
intent on your destruction isn't "given an opportunity" to make you
look bad.  It's impossible, and the attempt validates their lies.

   And now, let us imagine the worse case scenario:  the homosexual
   community raises all manner of Hell, and *nothing* *happens*
   (not too terribly unlikely, given the size of the active homosexual 
   community).  

No, the worst case scenario is "business as usual."  It is also one of
the more likely scenarios.

- Bob
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: hello
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:32:35 GMT
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1do26lINNos1@mizar.usc.edu> 
 adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>... how unbelievably sexy German diver Albin Killat is...

Reminds me of my dad, actually.  (Please, let's not turn this into an
incest thread :) -- neither is particularly sexy to _my_ eye.)

A friend and I seriously considered sending Killat our admiration
and condolences after the disastrous 0.5 that knocked him out of the
running.  Does anyone here know how (rather than simply "Albin Killat,
Muenchen, DEUTSCHLAND") we could get him a letter?

Another Bayer (well, on the paternal side, anyway),

--                    __
Ellen Keyne Seebacher \/             elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
From: lhartman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lori L Hartman)
Subject: GAYNET DIGEST
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:40:48 GMT

Could someone please send me the address to subscribe to the Gaynet Digest.  
Thanks a lot.

Lori
Newsgroups: soc.motss