HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Date: Wednesday, 4 November 1992 21:31:04 MST
X-Mailer: TMail version 1.13
From: "D. C. Sessions" <dcs@witsend.tnet.com>
Organization: Nobody but me -- really
Subject: Re: Interfaith marriage
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Distribution: world

In <Bx1xy8.s4@cs.bham.ac.uk>, gmk@cs.bham.ac.uk (Gideon M H Kay)  wrote:

  [description of parents trying to keep their daughters from
   dating goyim (when there aren't any Jews available) deleted -- dcs]

#  This whole situation is causing many arguements and much heartbreak
# in this family. The parents have a nice house, steady income, good jobs and
# are at the age to start relaxing and 'living on the fruits of their
# labours' i.e. not in a position to suddenly relocate. They also have a
# third daughter Z - 9years old who will probably have to go through the
# traumas of X and Y when she gets old enough.

  The parents have made the choice already.  They've decided to live
  on the 'fruits of their labors' and to put their material comfort
  ahead of bringing their daughters to the chuppa.  What do they
  expect their daughters to do, given that example?

--- D. C. Sessions                            Speaking for myself ---
--- Note new network address:                dcs@witsend.tnet.com ---
--- Author (and everything else!) of TMail  (DOS mail/news shell) ---
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: afrydman@granpa.enet.dec.com (Avi Frydman)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 19:48:59 GMT


In article <FAIGIN.92Nov11074337@soldan.aero.org>, faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin) writes...
>On Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:28:58 GMT, shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) said:
> 
>> As you probably know, the most serious problems are not with
>> conversion (the person can always convert Orthodox-halakhically
>> after the Reform conversion), or marriage, but divorce.  Orthodox-
>> halakha requires a standard get; Reform rabbis typically (I have
>> been told) do not.  
> 
>Although it is true that Reform does not impose a requirement for a get during
>a civil divorce, if the Rabbi is consulted, they often recommend it. However,
>civil divorce is recognized as a divorce by most Reform rabbis.
> 
>Daniel

Can you see where this might be a problem?  

Orthodox and Conservative Jews consider a woman
without a get as a person who is STILL MARRIED.  If she were to consider
herself "single" and then marry she would, in effect, be an ADULTRESS and all
of her subsequent children would be MAMZIRIM (according to Orthodox and
Conservative Jews).
From: aliki@nova1.stanford.edu (Alexandra Schmidt)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Prayer shawls
Date: 11 Nov 1992 20:52:13 GMT
Organization: Stanford University
NNTP-Posting-Host: nova1.stanford.edu


JJ--try to find a copy of the book 'House of David Tallitot', by Annette
Z. Easton.  (It's not really a book, more like one of those stapled-together
cross-stitch/crafts booklets.  If you don't have a local Jewish bookstore
or *really* good crafts shop, you might try 1-800-JUDAISM and see if you
can order it from them.)  The important things are not mixing linen and 
wool, and tying the tzitzit correctly (directions are included); aside from
that there aren't a whole lot of restrictions.  

			. . .A.
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Einstein and Judaism
Date: 9 Nov 92 08:53:27 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

jg = jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)

me: even if we had someone on this net with the statue of Einstein,

jg: Do a couple of busts and a Yousef Karsh portrait count? If so,
jg: there are several people posting from Weizmann....

I'm sorry for the typo, I wanted to write "the statutes of Einstein",
referring to those who spend all their days and nights studying Torat
Hayachasut.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org 			    Jerusalem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Kashrus: Kellogs Crumbs
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:35:43 GMT

norm@helix.nih.gov writes:

> >There was a 'rumor' floating that Kellogs was changing the formula
> >for its baking crumbs so that they were now Milchig and could not
> >be used with chicken/meat. Anyone have further info ?	Thanks.
> I never knew that they were kosher in the first place.  Who give haskakah? 

I may be wrong, but I believe Kellogs products bearing a "K" are under
the supervision of the Vaad HaKashrut of Massachusetts (VHM).

-Don Gertler
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Pierced Ears
Date: 11 Nov 92 18:48:05 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: hsiegel@cvbnet.prime.com (mailhost)

In article <4270@cvbnetPrime.COM>, hsiegel@cvbnet (mailhost) writes:
>	   Further, I speculate that in a society where all men wear
>earrings it certainly wouldn't be "beged ishah" for Jewish men to
>do so, and that in fact it might be non-tzniusdik [immodest] for
>Jewish men to refrain from doing so.

Is this some subtle hint regarding ties?  A plague on them.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.african-american,misc.legal
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Re: ARF says is aint so
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 03:31:05 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL

In article <BxGzLz.K2A@world.std.com> srm@world.std.com (Stevens R Miller) writes:
>arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes:
>
>>there were two groups with prejudiced views involved in the case, Jews and
>>Blacks.  In fact, you could say Chasidic Jews and Black to be more correct.
>>It would seem to me that the most unbiased jury would contain neither of
>>the above but if you insist on "mixing" the jury to somehow get justice,
>>I insist on an equal number of Chasidic Jews and Blacks.  Nothing else
>>makes any sense.
>
>Why the assumption that blacks and Jews are all biased?  What was called
>for (and is the only thing that makes sense) was an unbiased jury.  Bias
>is not eliminated by including equal numbers of biased people, some for, some
>against the defendant.  A biased black had no place on that jury.  Neither
>did a biased Jew, nor a biased white nor any other biased person.

I never made that assumption.  The only assumption I made was that biases do
exist.  the current system makes that assumption and presumes that "mixing"
the jury will average out the bias.  However, it is far too simplistic to
work as intended and does indeed seem to presume bigotry.  My only point is
that if mixing helps to balance the juries biases, then why was not a Jew
on the jury and why were totally uninvolved Hispanics?  There is an
;endless list of irrelevant other possiblities but the only relevant 
ones in this case are Negros and Jews.


>Nelson jury, but all asked to be excused (this according to the Brooklyn
>
>
>BTW:  I got admitted to the bar of New York today.  Future historians will
>

Congratulations, sort of.  Just what we need, more lawyers.

js
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Kosher Honey - Still no answer
Date: 13 Nov 92 14:02:36 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)

In article <2806@israel.nysernet.org>, warren@nysernet (Warren Burstein) writes:
>Another question is, as I remember it (if anyone thinks I have
>remembered it wrong, please go home and look it up before you tell me
>that I am wrong), one is allowed to kill lice on Shabbat because they
>are spontaneously generated.  [...]

Your memory is correct.  I do not know of any updates on this.

I always forget whether one is permitted or forbidden to speak to
demons on Shabbos.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 14:33:28 EDT
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Autopsy - Kahane and Rosenbaum
 <1N4PTB2w165w@valpso.hanse.de> <92312.0345472893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
 <1992Nov7.234043.8319@ennews.eas.asu.edu>

nng
In article <1992Nov7.234043.8319@ennews.eas.asu.edu>,
makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) says:
>
>In article <92312.0345472893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> andy
><2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>
># In article <1N4PTB2w165w@valpso.hanse.de>, tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
>(Manfredo
># Tichauer) says:
>
># >makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>
># >> # Would you support an American Kahane who proposed expelling all
># >non-Christ-
># >> # ians from the USA?
>
># >> Well, I will quote the late Rabbi from memory here just after he
># >> was elected to the Knesset.  The Rabbi said something like "He would
># >> pay them money to expell all Jews to Israel" when asked a similar
># >> question.
>
># Would he have paid Hitler money to expel the Jews from Europe? My father
># recalls reading in a Betar newspaper in the mid 30s that the Nazis were
>right
># in arguing the Jews have no place in Germany and encouraging the Nazis
># to expel the Jews. It's this sort of smug, Machiavellian, ends-justifies-the
># means thinking often comes from the far right that gives me the chills.
>
>        Did you read the context?  Could it have been they had no place
>because of what was going to happen to them?  Jabotinsky for one

Frankly, considering that Betar's paper had an ariticle called
"From the Notebook of a Fascist" which promoted their brand of Zionism, it's
hard, in context, to see this as a criticism by Betar of the fascists.

>PREDICTED it, although no one paid attention (or worse they tried to
>silence him, much as they tried to silence Rabbi Meir Kahane [HY"D]
>more recently) to him.
>
>        I'll bet you would have chosen expulsion as compared to what
>happened.

Betar also had this song they used to sing, one of the lines went
"Germany for Hitler, Italy for Mussolini and Palestine for us"


>--
>"For all I care, you can send your money to the Hitler memorial fund, too, if
>that pleases you."

Why not ask Betar, I'm sure they'll make a contribution.
>
>From  arens@vaxa.isi.edu (Yigal Arens) in article <9323@venera.isi.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: segs@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (susan.e.slusky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: sexism
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:43:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsm.1992Nov12.184328.12636
Organization: AT&T


In article <2792@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>mw = weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
>
>mw: Exactly.  The shirt under the t.k. is to keep it clean.
>
>But is the shirt under the tk required by halacha or is it just
>convenient to do so since undershirts are cheaper than tk's so it's
>easier to have lots of undershirts than lots of tk's?  If the former,
>could you provide a reference?

The tk is a pain to launder, if you really want to know. 
Washing machines are very tough on the tzitzit. Untying 
the tzitzit before laundering and then retying them is highly
labor intensive. So hand-washing becomes the method of choice. 
It's easier to throw the undershirt in the wash.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dkantor@uspi2.Prime.COM (Dave Kantor)
Subject: Intolerance vs Solidarity
Organization: Prime Computer, Inc.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:04:04 GMT

In article <09Nov92.194522.19265@granite.ciw.edu>, cohen@quartz.ciw.edu (Ronald Cohen) writes:
> If I had my druthers, there would be no
> reform Judaism, since they have thrown out the Halacha
> altogether.  Solomon Schecter and other fathers of
> Conservativism used the phrase "Catholic Israel" and held that
> the halacha should be decided by those who cared about
> halacha--i.e. C and O.  O feels that halacha can be only decided
> by O, and R says "what's halacha?" 

Given the persecution and intolerance we've endured from others over the past
2,000 years, it is truly sad that we cannot tolerate our own.  

If I had MY druthers, we would respect inter-denominational differences and
celebrate our common tradition.  What possible good could come from wishing that 
a large section of our people be cut off from the Jewish family ? 

The OCR debates have raged often in this group, and IMHO have done more to
polarize us than bring us together.  Can we not instead focus on our shared
values ?  We may disagree about halacha, but we all care deeply about our
heritage and our future as a people.  Let us put aside this divisive and sometimes
insulting debate, and seek a more supportive and respectful relationship among
all Jews.

I know that "united we stand, divided we fall" is a tired, old cliche.  But I
think it still has deep meaning for us all.

Shalom...

-- 
===========================================================================

David Kantor 
Computervision Services (formerly PrimeService, formerly Prime Computer)
dkantor@uspi2.prime.com  

===========================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rothberg@bimacs.BITNET (Danny Rothenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 12 Nov 92 12:49:19 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <FAIGIN.92Nov10131151@soldan.aero.org> faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin) writes:
>On Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:20:12 GMT, shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) said:
>
>> Other differences are more serious.  If you don't keep chalav yisrael
>> ("kosher milk"), I can still eat in your house.  But if you don't
>> keep kosher at all, I can't eat at your house (unless you make
>> special preparations for me).  Do your prayer rituals include
>> practices that violate my interpretation of halakha?; if so,
>> I cannot worship with you.
>
>But if I'm aware of the rituals (as any serious Reform Jew would be), then I
>can easily make simple accomidations for you. If I don't keep kosher and
>invite you over, I give you fresh fruit, OU products, unopened packages of
>plastic utensils. We want to prey together and have different rituals: I can
                              ^^^^
Surely you mean 'pray? :-)

>follow the more observant one for that day, because of the shared meaning of
>its importance to you. In any case, the fundamentals are the same: the Shema,
>the V'Hafta, the Avot, the Adoration, the Torah service, the Kaddish (I'll
>stand, you can sit), the Mi Chamocha, the Barchu. All of these are part of the
>Reform service too. So we can worship together if we work together.
>
>Daniel
>--
>[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
>[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
>                   "And as they say, the rest is compost"


--
Be'ahavat chinam (with causeless love)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Danny Rothenberg             |     ^
Bitnet:                      |  \-/-\-/  "He's not the messaiah.  He's a
rothberg@bimacs              |   X   X    naughty little boy."
Internet:                    |  /-\-/-\                        - Brian's Mum
rothberg@bimacs.cs.biu.ac.il |     V
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: CPLS13@email.mot.com (Steven_Cohn)
Subject: Re: sexism
Organization: Motorola_CoveragePLUS
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:47:20 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish

In article <96455@netnews.upenn.edu>, weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew
P Wiener) wrote:
> 
> In article <GJSSBPF6@cc.swarthmore.edu>, mwertz1@cc (Melanie Wertz) writes:
> >No one has answered my questions yet.  Why is it that MEN are not barred
> >from appearing provocative to women?  WOMEN EXPERIENCE ATTRACTION TOO!
> 
> So count yourself lucky, but meanwhile, what are you talking about?  Men
> should wear at least knee-long pants, two layers of underwear under their
                                       
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^	    
> shirt which covers at least the middle of their biceps.  Orthodox men are
  ^^^^^^

Would you care to elaborate on this?  I don't think I understand what you
are getting at here.

Steven Cohn
Motorola CoveragePLUS Engineering
CPLS13@EMAIL.MOT.COM
From: aplebaum@irs01.cs.huji.ac.il (Hillel Applebaum)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: What would be the Jewish equivalent of "Islamic law"?
Date: 8 Nov 92 11:02:14 GMT
Organization: The Hebrew U. of Jerusalem, Computer Science Dep.
NNTP-Posting-Host: irs01.cs.huji.ac.il

In article <Bx59DJ.HuM@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Michael Feld) writes:
|> A number of governments have announced their intentions to replace
|> local non-religious law with traditional Islamic law; with "sharia"
|> law, in Sunni countries, if I understand correctly.
|> 
|> What would be the Jewish equivalent?  Would we be instituting
|> "halakhing" law, or some such?

I don't know about muslims, but we (National-Rligious Jews) want
to change the currently british-otoman-etc-law in Israel to the
jewish low system (=HALACHA).
Note - HALACH IS the law !!!
-- 

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
/ Hillel P. Applebaum  |> ISRAEL - where all
/ Jerusalem,   Israel  |  jews should live !
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ddsokol@unix.amherst.edu (D. DANIEL SOKOL)
Subject: Re: Who built the pyramids
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 00:31:18 GMT

M M Ghanem (mmg@doc.ic.ac.uk) wrote:
> Unfortunately I have to disappoint you, according to my best of knowledge
> and to the common knowledge what you are saying is utterly rubbish.
> 
> The pyramids were built by EGYPTIANS not jews. You can check with your
> nearest library to clarify your facts. If any jews contributed to building
> the pyramid (although I doubt the fact) I think they were EGYPTIANS.
> 
> If what you were saying is true, why did they not transfer their knowr-how
> with them ? 
> 
> P.S. Am I sensing something in the line of : The pyramids are jewish, 
> therefore .... 
> 
> I hope I am wrong.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Moustafa M. Ghanem
> Dept. of Computing
> Imperial College
> London.

I must agree.  The pyramids were built early on in Egypts history, within the
first few dynasties. The Jews made the exodus when Ramases II was pharoh, a 
MUCH, MUCH later date.  Jews were not slaves for that long in Egypt.
Danny Sokol-Amherst College
DDSOKOL@Amherst.ed
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: book title:"Cholent"
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:23:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.203039.5645@umbc3.umbc.edu> shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:
>          Now I LOVE chocolate (wanted to say haTov v'ha'Metiv
>when Baby Ruth's got the OU), but I draw the line at chocolate
>cholent; it may be alliterative, but it sounds YUCKY!  (My
>wife, a scholar and a great cook, is also enough of a humanist
>not to have tried making chocolate cholent, so I can't be sure of how
>it tastes ... but I can guess.)
  I'll bet they've just adapted a Mexican mol\'e recipe (chicken in chocolate
  and peanut, with chili). My ex introduced me to it, along with
  "gefilte fish a la Veracruzana."
From: chr04ha@vmsa.technion.ac.il (Amitai Halevi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish Fundamentalism
Date: 7 Nov 92 06:29:38 GMT
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology

An error crept into my article <1992Nov7.010111.1@vmsa.technion.ac.il>, 
chr04ha@vmsa.technion.ac.il (Amitai Halevi), which I would like to 
correct:

> In his Commentary on the Mishna, Rambam explains the injunction
> (Hagigah-Ch. 2, Mishna 1) that Maase Bereshit should be taught to
> no more than two, presumably gifted, students at a time:

The limitation with respect to "Maaseh Bereshit" is to ONE student at a time. 
"'Arayot" (the laws of incest can be taught to two students, whereas "Maaseh 
Merkavah" (theology) should not even be taught to one unless he is 
exceptionally perceptive.

Sorry.

Amitai        
 *---------------------------------------------------------------*
 | E.A. Halevi, Department of Chemistry, Technion - I.I.T.       |     
 | "Mipnei seiva takum, vehadarta pnei zaken" - Leviticus 19, 32 |
 *---------------------------------------------------------------*
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: intro to Judaism
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 23:03:07 GMT

In article <1ds1o8INN8vk@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> thumper@cats.ucsc.edu (Andrea Meredith Kennemer) writes:
>           But because my father is not Jewish, I have not been very involved
>in temple classes or activities.
   I love it. Along comes someone who puts a complete kabosh on the
   assumptions underlying all sides of OCR.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish