HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: d90eridy@odalix.ida.liu.se (Erik Dyrelius)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Classical Music for modern instrument
Date: 24 Jan 93 18:05:17 GMT
Organization: CIS Dept, Univ of Linkoping, Sweden

bweiner@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Benjamin Weiner) writes:

>judd@wilkinson.cs.colorado.edu (Stephen Judd) writes:

>>And now, back to my original question.  Are there examples of, for lack of a
>>better term, classical music for modern instruments? I did not intend to limit
>>my question to the world of popular music.  Jean-Michel-Jarre is an acceptable
>>example, as is Mannheim Steamroller (Debussy wanna-be's).  Robert Fripp was
>>mentioned by someone...

>It is a little bit hard to know what you are looking for.  How many modern
>instruments are there, after all?  The electric guitar in many ways is still
>just a guitar.  The electric bass is even less of a new instrument since
>one of its major raisons d'etre is simply that it is less of a pain in the
>ass to carry around.  The synthesizer is a new instrument which is almost
>always used to make a bad imitation of an old instrument.  (For actually
>creative synthesizer players, try Richard Teitelbaum, say, or Allen 
>Ravenstine of Pere Ubu, who rarely even plays pitched notes.  But from your
>stated desires I don't think you would like Pere Ubu.)

Maybe a little less creative but quite nice anyway: Tomita (at least I
think that's his name. I've only listened to him a few times and I don't
own any records by him. Please feel free to fill me in on this...)

--
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| dyrelius@robin.lysator.liu.se            (d90eridy@und.ida.liu.se) |
|                                                                    |
|   Listen to me just hear me out, if I could have your attention;   |
|            just quieten down for a voice in the crowd.             |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Anyone heard of Gliere?
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 22:26:34 GMT

torenvl@ecf.toronto.edu (TORENVLIET GERARD LAWRENS) writes:
: In article <1jn3pcINNddl@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU> ronthal-adam@yale.edu (Adam Ronthal) writes:
: >I finally got around to catching up on my news, and I noticed this subject
: >line from Deryk B.  The article was unavailable, but I thought I'd respond
: >anyway.
: 
: I'll respond too.
: 
: Actually, I have heard of Gliere; I just received my last Christmas present
: two days ago, and it was a disk with Gliere's Harp Concerto on it.  I have
: not yet listened to it (must wait till I go home this weekend and have a CD
: player at my disposal), but it is supposed to be really nice.

Well I didn't start this, but I did mention the harp concerto, which
is indeed a fairly 'nice' (good word) piece.

: Yogourt,
  Pardon?
: Gerard.


--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Subject: Gliere on recording (was Re: Anyone heard of Gliere?)
Originator: brad@buck
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:29:39 GMT


In article <1jpq91INNee9@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, vshen@cns.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (N. Vivienne Shen) writes:
|> |> Adam Ronthal (ronthal-adam@yale.edu) wrote: 
|> |> : All I know about Gliere is that he wrote a very cool concerto for Horn and
|> |> : Orchestra.  It's recently been re-released on Philips (It was out of print

|> Gliere also wrote a set of duets for two cellos. I don't know if there are any
|> recordings, but they are at least challenging and fun to play.

Also among Gliere's works currently on recording, there are:

concerto for coloratura soprano and orchestra
concerto for harp and orchestra
8 pieces for violin and cello
the red poppy (ballet)
the sirens (symphonic poem)
symphony #1 
symphony #2
symphony #3
the zaporozhy cossacks (symphonic poem)

Happy listening,

- BK
From: bweiner@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Benjamin Weiner)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Classical Music for modern instrument
Date: 24 Jan 93 07:13:24 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

judd@wilkinson.cs.colorado.edu (Stephen Judd) writes:

>And now, back to my original question.  Are there examples of, for lack of a
>better term, classical music for modern instruments? I did not intend to limit
>my question to the world of popular music.  Jean-Michel-Jarre is an acceptable
>example, as is Mannheim Steamroller (Debussy wanna-be's).  Robert Fripp was
>mentioned by someone...

It is a little bit hard to know what you are looking for.  How many modern
instruments are there, after all?  The electric guitar in many ways is still
just a guitar.  The electric bass is even less of a new instrument since
one of its major raisons d'etre is simply that it is less of a pain in the
ass to carry around.  The synthesizer is a new instrument which is almost
always used to make a bad imitation of an old instrument.  (For actually
creative synthesizer players, try Richard Teitelbaum, say, or Allen 
Ravenstine of Pere Ubu, who rarely even plays pitched notes.  But from your
stated desires I don't think you would like Pere Ubu.)

>I am simply looking for new music to explore, particularly that which is
>harmonically creative in a devoid area, i.e. real innovation.

I bet the music that best fits your criteria is related to the quasi-jazz
and downtown N.Y. avant-garde: Bill Frisell, Glenn Branca, Soldier String
Quartet, Richard Teitelbaum.  Anthony Braxton is harmonically creative,
and he plays saxophone (definitely a modern instrument!)  But I also bet
this stuff is not what you are looking for - it's not easy on the ear in
the sense of the groups you named, and if you hate, say, Schoenberg, you'll
hate these people's music.  From the groups you named I would bet you
should be asking people who know the byways of "progressive rock" and
maybe some jazz fusion.

It sounds like you are looking for, not just harmonically creative music
played on an electric guitar, but harmonically creative rock-based music.
This is a lot tougher, partly because rock is in some sense deliberately
immature, and when it gets old, it gets stale.  There's a Robert Christgau
quote: "What the guys in [the band] U.K. don't understand is that it's
not difficult to rock out in 7/4 time, or even impressive.  It's 
impossible."

-Ben
From: tom@astro.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Want comments on Shaw's Mahler Symphony #8
Date: 21 Jan 93 06:14:25 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ


Someone was asking about great discoveries of 1992.  Well poking
around in the CD collection in my public library and trying to expand
my world a bit, I grab a 2 CD set of Mahler's 3rd Symphony, conducted
by Bernstein and the NYPO.  Wow!  I have heard this before, but it
never had this impact -- maybe a tribute to Bernstein.  So I am off
expanding my collection of recordings of Mahler's works.

That said, I would like to ask some opinions about recordings.
I have the mahler.txt by Mr. Barker as well as the Penguin Guide,
and they are serving me well, but tantalizing recordings appear in
the shops, and I wonder about them:

Mahler Symphony #8 -- Atlanta Symphony Orch. Shaw -- on Telarc label.
	This one tempts me, but I haven't purchased it ... yet.
	Should I?

Mahler Symphony #5 -- Solti, Chicago Symphony -- London (Decca) 1991
	This one already got me -- It is well recorded but it is
	the only #5 I have ever heard, so I have nothing to compare
	it to.  Comments?  Have I missed something else really superb?

    Thanks!
--
	Tom Trebisky	ttrebisky@as.arizona.edu

This program posts news to thousands of machines throughout the entire
civilized world.  Your message will cost the net hundreds if not thousands of
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Don Giovanni
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 01:21:58 GMT

In article <1993Jan19.222258.1273@osf.org> coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
>In article <1993Jan19.025649.5036@Princeton.EDU>, roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>> Everyone in the Mozart version has at least a small comic function, except
>> the Commendatore; even Elvira is less sure of herself than she thinks.  

>What's (deliberately) funny about Donna Anna? You're not allowed to
>include what <insert non-favorite soprano here> sounds like in "Non mi
>dir".

Actually, you're right.  I guess I had folded a bit of Donna Elvira
into her.  There is the ambiguity of whether she actually thought it 
was Ottavio, but that's not comic in and of itself.  

Except that it's a classic comic opera ploy, Act IV of Figaro carried
too far, or a preview of Cosi.

Roger
From: patrick@chianti.c.u-tokyo.ac.jp (Patrick Frisch)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Brahms and Tosca (Was Re: Brahms Basher Repents)
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:16:59 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Earth Science & Astronomy, College of Arts & Sciences, Univ. of Tokyo

In article <52eaad9@Unify.Com>, ceb@dbrus.Unify.Com (Caroline E. Bryan) writes:
|> 
|> Apropos of dull opera, someone here mentioned a version of Tosca in which the
|> soprano gives something close to a real shriek instead of the usual cadenza
|> imitating a polite and disinterested cry (I assume this is when she throws
|> herself from the battlements?).  I'm contemplating buying my second opera
|> (Turandot was 1st and is much appreciated), and would appreciate someone
|> emailing me the specs of the "real shriek" Tosca.  Please make sure that
|> your mailer uses the address below, and --
|> 
|> Thanks!
|> 
|> 
|> Carrie		ceb@rechenau.unify.com	x6244
|> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|> |   "There is less to this than meets the eye."		- Tallulah Bankhead   |
|> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Never heard from that. I'm interested too, so please add my address to 
the mailing list.

Many thanks,

Patrick

-- 
Patrick Frisch, Dept. of Earth Science & Astronomy, College of Arts & 
Sciences. Univ. of Tokyo, 3-8-1 Komaba, Meguro-ku, Tokyo 153, Japan

e-mail: patrick@kyohou.c.u-tokyo.ac.jp
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Public Service Announcement
In-reply-to: lampson@software.pulse.com's message of 20 Jan 1993 16:39:01 -0600
Organization: pubs
Date: 21 Jan 93 12:54:58 CST

Dave Lampson writes:

   ... A better overall suggestion is a nifty little product (to which I 
   have no connection whatsoever) called, now get this, Goo-Gone. ...

I have something with a name something like Lift-Off that meets Dave's
description, including where I bought it (a hardware store).  I think the
important point is to go to a hardware store.  There are lots of other solvents
that either give you headaches or get you high, or both, and I'd be interested,
at the risk of turning this into alt.heloise, to know which ones get the goo up
and don't wreck plastic.  There's carbon tetrachloride (Energine?), thinners for
all sorts of finishes, nail polish remover etc.  Any chemists here?

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: eng10406@nusunix1.nus.sg (TAN KAR GEE)
Subject: Re: Mahler 7
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:28:02 GMT

robertson@pasadena-dc.bofa.com wrote:
: In article <1993Jan25.002007.6032@Princeton.EDU>, langs@puhep1.princeton.edu (David Langs) writes:
: > In article <RM0WB3L5@cc.swarthmore.edu> rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Robert Brooks) writes:
: >>Picked up the DG Bernstein Mahler 7 yesterday from Philly Tower Records and
: >>   .
: >>   .
: >>   .
: >>point.  Anyone else want to comment on their favorite 7? 
: >>-- 
: > I must say, the recording that has become my favorite surprised me.  I
: > bought the Solti/Chicago boxed set of the nine Symphonies last summer,
: 
: I'll have to check these out, especially now that the Solti is (said to be)
: available singly.
: 
: The seventh has always been problematic for Mahler fans, especially the finale.
: It seems to be aiming for the same kind of life-affirming celebratory mood that
: we find in the finale of the fifth, but so few performances communicate this
: that one can't be blamed for wondering if Gustav hadn't maybe miscalculated a
: bit on this one.
: 
: I haven't heard either of the recordings mentioned above, but the one recording
: that seems to do best for me is the Abbado performance on DG.  This was 
: (relatively) controversial when it appeared for the tempo liberties that 
: Abbado took, but the results and the overall impression are what counts.
: 
: (BTW, another underappreciated performance is the Karajan Mahler 6th, IMHO.  
: Coupled w/ Songs of a Wayfarer, I think.
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It should be the 5 Ruckert Lieder sung by Christa Ludwig. I do agree
that this is an underappreciated performance. Likewise for Karajan's
recordings of the 4th, 5th, 9th and Das Lied Von Der Erde.


From: chrisr@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Chris Robson)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 01:29:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Classical Music for modern instrument (was Re: The shortest distance between two chords is...)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical

| 
| [Footnote: NPR had a segment about a new album by Elvis Costello with--yes--
| string quartet.  This is a definite exception to the above; it's surprisingly
| good.]
| 
| Chris Brewster
| cb@cray.com
| ----------

	... the Brodsky Quartet, no less. I am looking forward to hearing
all of it.

  As to your point about classicly trained musicians not projecting their
training into rock - well isn't that what being idiomatic is all about?
I have in mind Joe Jackson, a supurb musician, who has produced work in
many different idioms. I don't expect him to use the same harmonies in
his 'punk' works as in his '40s swing work.

  It is interesting to look at (classicly) untrained composers who have
stretched their knowledge into more theoretical areas - Fripp and Zappa
come to mind. Slonimsky's anecdote in 'Perfect Pitch' about Zappa is rather
amusing, as is his comment about how his book on the theory of scales
found its home in the jazz world, not the classical.

  What really turns me off though is bands which use the 'classical'
genre (whatever that is) as phallic extensions - (I won't mention
ELP by name as I don't want to be flamed).


			Chris. xxx.




________________________________________________________________________________
    "It's a sobering thought that by the time Mozart was my age he had been
                    dead for two years" - Tom Lehrer.
________________________________________________________________________________
Chris Robson, MS 5UR5			Phone:	(503) 750-2766
HP Corvallis Division			Fax:	(503) 752-7811
1000 NE Circle Bvd.
Corvallis, OR 97330			E-Mail:	chrisr@hpcvra.cv.hp.com
USA
From: lampson@software.pulse.com (Dave Lampson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Public Service Announcement
Date: 21 Jan 1993 17:48:35 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In a recent message, Chris brewster writes:
>Dave Lampson writes:
>
>   ... A better overall suggestion is a nifty little product (to which I 
>   have no connection whatsoever) called, now get this, Goo-Gone. ...
>
>I have something with a name something like Lift-Off that meets Dave's
>description, including where I bought it (a hardware store).  I think the
>important point is to go to a hardware store.  There are lots of other solvents
>that either give you headaches or get you high, or both, and I'd be interested,
>at the risk of turning this into alt.heloise, to know which ones get the goo up
>and don't wreck plastic.

Well, I know for sure Goo-Gone doesn't.  It specifically bills itself as
being great for removing labels (like those nasty distributors stickers
stick randomly on the back of CDs).  I've been using it for years on all
kind of plastics without any damage.  If anything, CD cases appear so 
clean as to look *better* than before it was used.  Never any clouding
(or headaches or highness - and I would notice getting high :-).  I've 
even used it to remove those stupid dealer stickers from cars and it
has done no damage to the finish whatsoever.  

Dave
lampson@pulse.com
From: jcm2w@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (John Clarke Mccanless)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Mahler 7
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:19:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <1993Jan26.191300.20928@kadsma.kodak.com> pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek) writes:
>In article <C1G0wA.K7y@cmcl2.nyu.edu> tony@cns.nyu.edu writes:
>>I share the already-stated enthusiasm for the Solti and Abbado Chicago
>>versions, giving the edge to Solti for sheer drive and power (and also
>>for the recording, which has more atmosphere and clarity, even though it
>>is analog).
>
>I would think "because it's analog". Has anyone yet heard a digital
>recording with any natural-sounding ambience?
>
>>					Tony Movshon
>>
PLEASE let's not start the analog/digital argument!!

-- 
John C. McCanless				jcm2w@virginia.edu

"Genius!  Pure, unadulterated, GENIUS!!"  - Wile E. Coyote
From: 00mlbrickner@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Internet resources for Bach and the Baroque
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:32:31 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

I am doing a project for a class and need internet resources for the
Baroque, especially Bach.  I am looking for ay mailing lists, other
newsgroups, ftp cites, whatever.  Please respond via email.

Thanks,
Marti L. Brickner

mbrickne@bsu-cs.bsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: tonal value of chords and harmonic series [?]
In-reply-to: maverick@mahogany.CS.Berkeley.EDU's message of 27 Jan 1993 17:26:26 GMT
Organization: pubs
Date: 27 Jan 93 12:59:44 CST

Vance Maverick writes:

   |> according to rameau's model the chord
   |> C-E-G-A, i.e. a major triad with an added 6th should be a VI chord,
   |> lying on A whereas everbody knows it is a tonic chord lying on C

   Is there a smiley missing here?

I'd say the meaning of that chord depends on the context.  Adding a
sixth (the kind of sixth the poster meant) to a major triad has been a
staple in jazz and MOR pop for decades, to the point where sometimes the
triad's fifth can even be removed and the chord still "reads" as the
major triad rather than the inverted relative minor (in his example, C
major with some added color, rather than A minor).  [Note: this has
never been used much in rock, but the final chord of the Beatles' "She
Loves You" does it.]  But in the context of common-practice classical
music, the chord he names would be a VI, with its 7th and inverted;
notated VI 5-6 on a bass C.  These functions are reinforced by the
previous harmonic motion, so we hear them in these ways.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Subject: Re: Mahler 7
Reply-To: pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp. - Telstar
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:10:07 GMT

In article <C1HB48.8zC@cmcl2.nyu.edu> tony@cns.nyu.edu writes:
>In article 20928@kadsma.kodak.com, pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek) writes:
>
>> >(and also
>> >for the recording, which has more atmosphere and clarity, even though it
>> >is analog).
>> 
>> I would think "because it's analog". Has anyone yet heard a digital
>> recording with any natural-sounding ambience?
>> 
>> Don Pajerek
>
>Oh, dear. This argument gets hashed out regularly and acrimoniously in
>rec.audio. But the answer is "yes, of course". Try the Solti/Chicaco Mahler
>2, for a closely-related example. The ambience in a recording doesn't depend
>on the way the sound is stored on tape, but on the hall and the way the
>engineers do the microphone placement and mixing. Properly reproduced
>analog and digital recordings can sound equally good to me. If digital
>recordings sound consistently worse to you than analog, I would suspect
>a problem somewhere in your playback equipment.

Digital doesn't 'sound worse', for the most part, though there is a
persistent hardness in the upper-midrange that is quite annoying.
I refer specifically to ambient sound, and low-level detail in general.
Only the very best CD's can regularly generate as involving a
musical experience as a good LP, and some of those were recorded as
analog masters (the Mercury CD's, for example).

The problems we have in this area on today's CD's is more the fault
of the current digital standard (16 bits, 44mHz sampling) than digital
itself. Once we can go beyond this early-80's technology we'll see
real improvement. In fact, we're seeing it now, with the introduction
of 'Super CD' formats like SBM and HDCD. Watching people try to
shoehorn more resolution into the existing structures is kind of like
watching the struggle of the IBM PC community to get beyond the 640K
barrier.

>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>					Tony Movshon


Don Pajerek

Standard disclaimers apply.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: The Roman "Tosca"
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:38:27 GMT

In article <1993Jan19.130256.24832@lloyd.Camex.COM>, chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay) writes:
> Our PBS station in Boston recently showed a production (?) of Tosca done in
> Rome last summer.  According to the commentary preceding the opera, Zubin
> Mehta was conducting an orchestra in one place while the singers were
> singing in another.  The point of it all was to have the singers in the
> actual locations at the actual time as given in the libretto.  So we have
> an execution at Castel Sant'Angelo in the early morning, and so on.  

Were any of the same folks involved with this, production-wise, as
with the movie of _Carmen_ from a few of years ago with Domingo and
Miguenes-Johnson? It used similar techniques, and I thought it worked
pretty well, for the most part.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ridgway@athena.mit.edu (Lee Ridgway)
Subject: re: Brumel review
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:34:28 GMT

Chanticleer has recorded a mass and motets, on their own label. I like the
performance and the sound. To me it has a bit more "humanity" and warmth than the
Tallis Scholars.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben)
Subject: Shostakovich's 8th
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:18:49 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

  I just picked up the Haitink recording of the 8th, and I am quite stunned.
I really don't know what to make of some of this - the 3rd movement scares
the hell out of me!  I guess that is the whole point of this piece, but I
am curious about other impressions, namely about the final minutes of the
last movement...

By the way, does the Shostakovich newsgroup still exist?


Now that I have his 5th, 8th, and 9th, reccomendations as to my next purchase,
as always, are quite welcome....


Mike Hurben           

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical