HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Pt 1/2: Forwarded news f
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:38:08 -0500

GF>If all the UPA wants is a unique ID, why isn't name and birthdate
GF>sufficient for almost all cases? Again, as computer-literate (sic)
GF>people, I think we don't have to buy the "but the computer needs the
GF>SSN" thing. A key is a key is a key.

The UPA tried assigning UPA-id numbers, but no one remembered them.

I can tell you, as a person who has checked over more rosters than
probably anyone in the UPA, a key involving a name just won't work.
Many times captains fill out the rosters (except for the SSN part), and
people spell names wrong.  Often, handwriting is illegible.  Further,
with our ddemographics, many people get married and change their
names.  Do you know what a hassle it is when you show up to a UPA
tournament and I can't find you on the database because your name is
spelled wrong?  There are approximately 100 Smith's in the UPA data
base (and seven of them are named Mike).

Further, let me repeat loud and clear, that the roster form, on the
back, says that anyone who does not want to disclose their UPA number
can substitute the number '7' for the first digit.

Look, the UPA has only one full time employee.  There were over 60
sanctioned tournaments in 1991 (plus the well over 60 Series tourneys)
where rosters need to be checked.  Further, with the college five-year
eligibility rule, it is even more imperative that we keep our records
straight.

I would hope that with a promise from the UPA that the SSN's will never
be used for anything other then data base keys, and that privacy of
the numbers will be totally maintained, that players would be willing to
enter the numbers on the roster forms.

 * SLMR 2.1a * Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted!

Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: fulton@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Ben Fulton)
Subject: Re: DBMS key
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:04:31 GMT

In <1992Jul29.144037.14633@cs.rochester.edu> ferguson@cs.rochester.edu (George Ferguson) writes:

>In article <daemon.92Jul29040259@is.morgan.com> Frank Revi <71551.2461@CompuServe.COM> writes:
>>0. Integrity - must be an integral property of the individual; the more
>>   integral the better. Not even name is integral enough, as Eric points out.
>>1. Stability - can't change over time span of decades
>>2. Accessibility - must be easily remembered/figured out by the individual
>>3. Uniqueness - must absolutely distinguish every individual from all others
>>4. Ease of Use - must require minimum possible ongoing maintenance and 
>>   effort on the part of the many users of the DBMS system.

>Ok. Well, these are somewhat mutually exclusive requirements, so we're
>looking for a tradeoff that maximizes useability and minimizes
>problems and risks.

>The first thing I would suggest is last name together with birthdate.
>Twins would be a problem here, but for others it ought to suffice for
>point (3). It's even better than SSN for point (2). It loses on point
>(0) by definition, but point (0) actually seems like points (1) and
>(2) wrapped together. I would say it's less usable than SSN for point
>(4), since it's more subject to typing error and it may be harder to
>type names than numbers. In any event, it's not clear that we should
>be comparing to SSN, which is easy by virtue of the way it has been
>abused in the past (and present).

I would prefer user-chosen codes, subject to restrictions (say, eight
printable ASCII characters).  I agree with George that point (0) is 
redundant.  Wins on point (1) - since it is arbitrary it should never
need changing.  Good for point (2), though not as good as lastname+bdate.
Iffy on point (3), but with good planning it shouldn't really matter.
I don't know how the UPA system is set up; if multiple terminals are
used for data entry some record locking system would have to be used. 
Good for point (4).  Words are much easier to type than numbers.  I would
suspect that most people would use word-type words, rather than proper
names or numbers.

And point (5) - IF YOU HAVE THE OPTION, WHY NOT LET PEOPLE CHOOSE FOR
THEMSELVES?

ben
fulton@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
lemon curry?
From: muller@anat3d1.anatomy.upenn.edu (Bill Muller)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Re: SOTG / Travelling
Date: 30 Jul 92 22:24:38 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Jul29.153715.21028@fs7.ece.cmu.edu> mds@henry.ece.cmu.edu (Mark Schultz) writes:
>
>If you read the "three step" rule carefully you will find that it applies ONLY
>to throwing without stopping and planting a pivot foot.  
>

I believe you're right though, I think the rule also says "third point of 
contact", rather than "three steps".  As Toad Leber pointed out to me once, 
this is really two steps, not three steps.

Bill
bill@breath.seas.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: nolan@pi3.lbl.gov (david nolan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Re: pancake (was: One handed catches)
Date: 30 Jul 1992 21:49:54 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory
Reply-To: nolan@pi3.lbl.gov (david nolan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.140.149

In article <Bs7Ewv.I8H@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> fulton@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Ben Fulton) writes:
>In <TNT.92Jul29133348@netcom.com> tnt@netcom.com (Terry Turner) writes:
>>that said: never pancake the catch. a pancake is a catch where the 
>>hands catch the disc on top and bottom. this leads to the mistake 
>>we've all seen and most of us have done: the disc sliding out of our 
>>grasp as our hands cross each other without touching.
>
>A lot of people pancake throws that are directly into their chest.  If
>you miss it should bounce off your chest and still be catchable, while
>if you miss the side of the disc, it goes straight down.  I agree with
>you that a pancake is a bad idea when catching away from the body.
>
>ben
>fulton@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
>lemon curry?

I don't know what planet you guys have been living on, but there is no 
question that "pancake" or "slapcatching," where the player catches
with two hands on the top and bottom of the disc, is an excellent
way to catch a frisbee.  It is certainly by far the best way for less
experienced players to catch.  I've never seen any new players catch well
by grabbing the edges of the disc.  It doesn't matter if the disc is
away from your body, coming straight at you or you're laying out for
it, slapcatching is the way to go.

Dave Nolan
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: pkuhn@us.oracle.com
Subject: East Coast pick-up ultimate
Organization: Oracle Corporation, USA
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 23:47:43 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

I'm going to be going back East for a 2-week vacation and was wondering if
anyone could give me information about where/when I can play some ultimate.
I'm basically looking for pick-up games, although if there are clubs that
don't mind an extra body showing up for a practice/scrimmage, that would 
probably be okay.  The areas I'm interested in are:

Tampa, FLA.
Long Island, N.Y. (if possible, eastern Nassau county/western Suffolk county)
Philadelphia, PA.

Thanks for the help,

Phil

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Kuhn
pkuhn@us.oracle.com
Oracle Corporation
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu (George Ferguson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Re: DBMS key
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:40:37 GMT
Reply-To: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu (George Ferguson)
Organization: Computer Science Department University of Rochester.


In article <daemon.92Jul29040259@is.morgan.com> Frank Revi <71551.2461@CompuServe.COM> writes:
>A key must have the following qualities:
>0. Integrity - must be an integral property of the individual; the more
>   integral the better. Not even name is integral enough, as Eric points out.
>1. Stability - can't change over time span of decades
>2. Accessibility - must be easily remembered/figured out by the individual
>3. Uniqueness - must absolutely distinguish every individual from all others
>4. Ease of Use - must require minimum possible ongoing maintenance and 
>   effort on the part of the many users of the DBMS system.
>With these in mind, any others you might suggest, what would make a good
>key?  What about something  a little more algorithmic?

Ok. Well, these are somewhat mutually exclusive requirements, so we're
looking for a tradeoff that maximizes useability and minimizes
problems and risks.

The first thing I would suggest is last name together with birthdate.
Twins would be a problem here, but for others it ought to suffice for
point (3). It's even better than SSN for point (2). It loses on point
(0) by definition, but point (0) actually seems like points (1) and
(2) wrapped together. I would say it's less usable than SSN for point
(4), since it's more subject to typing error and it may be harder to
type names than numbers. In any event, it's not clear that we should
be comparing to SSN, which is easy by virtue of the way it has been
abused in the past (and present).

Perhaps we could discuss the problems with names with respect to point
(1). I'd guess there are two sources of problems here: (a) People get
married, change their name to HuckMonster, etc.; and (b) Captains will
mispell names. With respect to (b), it seems to me that a name-based
scheme has a better chance of correcting errors than an SSN-based one,
since the mispelling is usually not *that* far off (at least
intuitively, it may be far off from the perspective of your DB
program). As for (a), I realize that this is a problem. However,
official name changes are a relatively infrequent things, presumably.
Some people (like a close friend of mine) have several names, and tend
to use them in different combinations on different occasions. That's a
problem that I can't address.

George
-- 
George Ferguson                 ARPA: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu
Dept. of Computer Science       UUCP: rutgers!rochester!ferguson
University of Rochester         VOX:  (716) 275-2527
Rochester  NY  14627-0226       FAX:  (716) 461-2018
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: stegerc@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Carsten Steger)
Subject: SOTG / Travelling
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 11:27:27 GMT


Hi!

There's one thing that came to my mind while watching some of the
games of the German nationals recently.

Imagine the following: A player catches the disc with nobody within 10
meters around him. He then throws off a long huck downfield. In the
act of doing so he drags his pivot foot maybe 20 centimeters or so.
Someone who is 20 meters away from the throwing player calls
'travelling'.

In my opinion it is against the spirit of the game to call a travel
under such circumstances, because the thrower gets no advantage by
travelling this way because he doesn't evade the mark of his marker.

I would like to hear your comments on this.

Carsten

PS: I'm fully aware that the rules allow you to call a travel under
such circumstances, but I think it's against the SOTG.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carsten Steger, Mir San Mir Ultimate Team Muenchen
Kleiststr.2, 8057 Eching, Germany, Ph.: +49 89 319 43 07
EMail: carsten.steger@informatik.tu-muenchen.de
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: kevinpo@sco.COM (Kevin Pondy)
Subject: Re: SOTG / Travelling
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:48:58 GMT


stegerc@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Carsten Steger) writes:


>Hi!

>There's one thing that came to my mind while watching some of the
>games of the German nationals recently.

>Imagine the following: A player catches the disc with nobody within 10
>meters around him. He then throws off a long huck downfield. In the
>act of doing so he drags his pivot foot maybe 20 centimeters or so.
>Someone who is 20 meters away from the throwing player calls
>'travelling'.

>In my opinion it is against the spirit of the game to call a travel
>under such circumstances, because the thrower gets no advantage by
>travelling this way because he doesn't evade the mark of his marker.

However, I know that some people have a hard time hucking the disc
without travelling.  You can also get more distance on a huck by
travelling; if it weren't the case, then you would see people pull
the disc standing still.  What I do find though is that the defense
tends to cheat in when the travel is called (thereby gaining a slight
advantage in the call).
Anyway, a travel is a travel, but remember that you don't have to call
it is you don't think it affects the play.  It is part of the SOTG to
only call infractions if you think they affect the play.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Kevin Pondy  kevinpo@sco.com   Palo Alto Spin Doctors
  "Spins on Me" - Spin Doctors
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

>I would like to hear your comments on this.

>Carsten

>PS: I'm fully aware that the rules allow you to call a travel under
>such circumstances, but I think it's against the SOTG.

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Carsten Steger, Mir San Mir Ultimate Team Muenchen
>Kleiststr.2, 8057 Eching, Germany, Ph.: +49 89 319 43 07
>EMail: carsten.steger@informatik.tu-muenchen.de
From: Frank Revi <71551.2461@CompuServe.COM>
Approved: news@is.morgan.com
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 08:02:59 GMT
Munged: news-gateway (is.morgan.com: $Revision: 1.8 $)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Company, Inc.
Distribution: world
Subject: DBMS key

Thank you all for your excellent comments regarding the database key/SSN
issue.  Your many points about not using the SSN are well taken, especially
the one I got from Sacco & Venzetti's teammate.

I am interested in trying to figure out a new key that is effective without
requiring additional ongoing resources to maintain or compensate for.  Now is
the time, however, to put in the extra work up front to come up with a good
solution.  First, let's think of a system, and then the more robust of you can
help implement it in FoxPro.

Let's turn our attention from debating the (de)merits of using SSN's, to
figuring out a key that everyone can live with.  A key must have the
following qualities:

0. Integrity - must be an integral property of the individual; the more         
   integral the better. Not even name is integral enough, as Eric points out.
1. Stability - can't change over time span of decades
2. Accessibility - must be easily remembered/figured out by the individual
3. Uniqueness - must absolutely distinguish every individual from all others
4. Ease of Use - must require minimum possible ongoing maintenance and 
   effort on the part of the many users of the DBMS system.

With these in mind, any others you might suggest, what would make a good
key?  What about something  a little more algorithmic?

Note that the above requirements preclude the use of telephone number, name, system-arbitrary, and user-chosen keys.  No joke.  These won't work as well as 
I think we need our key to work.

-Frank Revi, UPA MIS chair

From: fontes@astro.psu.edu (Chris Fontes)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Albuquerque Cuervo Qualifier
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:07:57 GMT
Distribution: rec.sport.disc
Organization: Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics, Penn State University

Here's a quick run down of the final games at the Albuquerque
Cuervo Qualifier.

women: Satori (D.C., best team in the MA region) vs. DV8
     Denver kicked ass with a final score around 19-7
men: semis Boulder vs. Phoenix (who pulled off an upset in the quarters)
           I don't know much about this game. I heard that Boulder
           was in control for the most part, Phoenix started to come
           back, but Boulder prevailed.
           Alvin(Houston, TX, with some INCREDIBLE athletes) vs.
           St. Louis (number 2 team in the Central Region behind
                      Windy City, qualified for the last 6? Nationals)
           This was a game. Close all the way through. St. Louis
           made some questionable calls against lay out blocks
           at the end of the game. When the dust cleared, St Louis
           won by a few, something like 17-14.
   finals  A very evenly matched final. At most, the scores differed by
           3 points. The teams traded points for a while with Boulder
           taking the occasional 1 point lead. Boulder opened up a
           slightly bigger lead taking the half at 10-7. St Louis
           came storming back after the half to score at least FOUR
           unanswered goals. They established a 2 point lead which
           held up until 17-15. Boulder was definitely pulling out
           all the stops on defense to try to get a block. St Louis
           was trying to keep their cool, only needing 2 points to
           qualify for the big dance in Boston. As fate would have
           it, St Louis turned over their next 2 possessions with
           errant throws. The score was tied at 17. St Louis worked
           the next goal in with cool precision, no show of nerves
           there. The following pull put the receiving Boulder player
           on the front corner of his goal. St Louis trapped him
           sideline. The first two cuts were heavily guarded and the
           stall count was climbing. The third cut came right at the
           disc, an inside out flick was required, the disc was thrown,
           the cutter laid out, the disc hit his hand, but the catch
           was never made (it was not an easy one to make, the cutter
           had been making some of the best cuts/catches all day long)
           St Louis took possession of the disc about 10 yds from
           the end of the proverbial rainbow. A couple of passes
           later they were celebrating a hard won 19-17 victory.

That's the news, and I am outta here.

Chris "Goin ho in the American Southwest" Fontes
From: peter@blade (Peter Korsten)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Best shoed for INDOOR Ultimate?
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:33:19 GMT
Organization: MCGV Stack, Eindhoven University of Technology, the Netherlands.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Hi, all.

In Holland, we play indoor about one third of the year, so the choice
for indoor shoes is very important.

What kind of shoes are you most satisfied with? Basketball? Tennis?
General purpose indoor? Cross training? Please let me know.

					Peter.
--
Peter Korsten, in real life peter@stack.urc.tue.nl
"Now that we know how humans do it, how does the Amiga do it ?"
- Amiga ROM Kernel Reference Manual, Libraries & Devices, 2nd edition
--- This signature will change when I get the 3rd edition ---
From: Nelson.F..Steele@p807.f70.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Nelson F. Steele)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: One handed catches
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:19:39 -0500

On 7/28/92 Peter Korsten said to All: 
  PK> 
  PK> There are still people who manage to put their hands not exactly on
  PK> top of each other, so that the disc will flip out of their hands and
  PK> hit the ground anyway.
  PK> 
I *hate* it when that happens.
From: stlucas@gdwest.gd.com (GSS 087272 St. Lucas)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: pickup games
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:29:56 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: General Dynamics Corp.

With all the talk about pickup games all over the country, has anyone
tried coordinating them, and/or generating a list (ftp able) that people
could use?  If everyone on the network sent pickup games that they knew
of to someone who had the time to assemble them, and updated the list once
a year, what a great thing it would be.  (I'm NOT volunteering, although I
have thought about it.)
We could e-mail the info to someone, not post to the newsgroup.
Possible data could be
state, city, day of week, time, location, misc stuff like player ability,
number that show up, etc. and whatever.
That way, when I go on vacation (aug 15-22 in Park City Utah area), I
wouldn't have to ask about games, nor would other folks.
-- 
Joe St.Lucas    stlucas@gdwest.gd.com        Standard Disclaimers Apply
General Dynamics Space Systems: our last launch (DSCS III) assuring the
security of our great country for years to come.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: evh@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Troy Saville)
Subject: Laurel Springs Open Results
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:34:14 GMT


Results of the 1992 Laurel Spring Open PDGA Super Tour event:

Doubles: -6 (48), Greg Barnicoat(CA) and Jim Akins(GA)
Open Pro:3 rounds + final 10 holes
         1st : -6 - Steve Valencia (CA)
         2nd :    - Ken Climo(FL)
         3rd :    - Craig Gangloff
Masters :3 rounds + final 10 holes
         1st :    - Lavone Wolfe(AL)
         2nd :    - Tom Monroe(FL)


  Valancia was leading Climo by one stroke going into the final 10.
  Climo couldn't catch up after he bogied hole #3 and Valancia
  birdied it. Valancia won the open pro division for the 2nd year in a row.
  Valancia shot -2 for each of the first 3 rounds.
  Climo(2 time defending PDGA world champion) finished 2nd for
  the 2nd year in a row. Craig Gangloff was 5 strokes behind
  Climo going into the final 10 holes. He was within 2 strokes
  of Climo after the 3rd hole but couldn't manage to catch up.
  He did manage to pass Dan Ginelly(AZ) who went OB twice.

  Steve Wisecup shot all pars one round for a score of 54.
  Mitch McClellan also shot a bogey free round with a score of 51.

  There were no aces.

-- 
T. Saville, PDGA #5399,  Golf Discs & Mini's bought,sold,traded|evh@genie.slhs
DELAWARE BREEZE & TREEZE PDGA TOURNAMENT, OCT. 1992, send email|    .udel.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: tnt@netcom.com (Terry Turner)
Subject: pancake (was: One handed catches)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 21:33:48 GMT
Organization: Watch the Skies
	<ceRJvi_00iUyM2G3Eq@andrew.cmu.edu>


In article <ceRJvi_00iUyM2G3Eq@andrew.cmu.edu> mwaa+@andrew.cmu.edu (Matthew S. Weiss) writes:

	[stuff saying to catch two handed deleted]

   I'll weigh in here, too.  Wherever possible, I pancake the hammer.  

to anyone that knows me i apologize now for wearing this one out. i 
too catch two handed and try to teach all new comers to do likewise. 
there are only two players that i know that catch well enough one 
handed that i stopped giving them grief about it (but i like to play
against them on windy and rainy days). 

that said: never pancake the catch. a pancake is a catch where the 
hands catch the disc on top and bottom. this leads to the mistake 
we've all seen and most of us have done: the disc sliding out of our 
grasp as our hands cross each other without touching.

the best way to catch a pass in easy reach is with both hands on 
the edge of the disc. it is properly a one handed catch (taking 
note of the spin) with the top hand helping out. it is analogous to 
baseball, the hot dogs catch it one handed and the coach has a 
stroke.

-- 
terry
	tnt@netcom.com
From: Frank Revi <71551.2461@CompuServe.COM>
Approved: news@is.morgan.com