HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: KMP@stony-brook.scrc.symbolics.com (Kent M Pitman)
Subject: Re: is this legal?
X-Unparseable-Date: Sat
Organization: LCS news/mail gateway
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 22:51:28 GMT

    Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 13:16 EDT
    From: Michael John Haertel <mike@majestix.cs.uoregon.edu>

    In article <1b5lr9INNr86@early-bird.think.com> barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin) writes:
    >In article <1992Oct10.025504.4221@cs.uoregon.edu> mike@cs.uoregon.edu (Mike Haertel) writes:
    >>(in-package "FOO")
    >>(defmacro foo::let (&rest body) '(do funky stuff))
    >To answer this, we need to see the definition of the FOO package.  If it
    >:USEs the LISP package, then it is inheriting the standard LET symbol,
    >which is already defined as a special form.

    The package FOO was implicitly created by the in-package statement.
    Since packages created this way (seem to) :use LISP by default,
    the answer is yes.

    I was under the apparently mistaken impression that :use was more
    like Unix $PATH, and that I could nevertheless create a new LET symbol
    in the FOO package.

    Time to go reread CLtL...
    --
    Mike Haertel <mike@cs.uoregon.edu>

You will find that the dpANS CL spec differs on the entire contract of
IN-PACKAGE, and on the default packages used when package creation
occurs.  (This is why Barry's remarks confuse you; his frame of
reference is probably different than yours.)  Whatever you read in
CLtL1, keep in mind that some implementations conform to CLtL1, some
conform to ANSI, and some might try to between.  (If it's CLtL2 you're
reading, you're not looking at a document that ever had official standing.
It was just a snapshot of work in progress halfway between CLtL1 and dpANS CL).

In particular, dpANS CL doesn't let IN-PACKAGE implicitly create packages.
It is an error if they don't exist. CLtL1 would auto-create the package, but
this was major source of program error.

Also, dpANS CL doesn't evaluate the package name argument (it is no longer
a function, but instead now a macro), so you must use a string or a keyword
to be compatible, since both self-evaluate.  This enhances the ability of
compilers to lexically analyze code by forbidding situations that would be
opaque to the compiler.

Finally, dpANS CL says that when MAKE-PACKAGE doesn't get an explicit use
list, the default is implementation-dependent.  LISP (defined by CLtL1) or
COMMON-LISP (defined by dpANS CL) are both valid, as are other values.

As for making your own LET symbol, you want to shadow the symbol.  For
references to this, see the shadow function (in CLtL1 and dpANS CL) or
the :SHADOW option to defpackage (dpANS CL only).
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
From: popineau@tintin.ese-metz.fr (Fabrice Popineau)
Subject: Common Windows
Organization: Supelec, Etablissement de Metz, France.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:46:20 GMT
X-Posted-From: tintin.ese-metz.fr
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu


Hello,

Does anybody know what is Common Windows ? Is it avalaible for KCL ?

Thanks in advance,

F. Popineau
--
e-mail: popineau@loria.loria.fr	      
        popineau@ese-metz.fr                 
voice-mail: (+33) 87-74-99-38                
surface-mail: 	Ecole Superieure d'Electricite
	      	2 rue Edouard Belin           
		F-57078 Metz Cedex 3	      
		FRANCE			      

Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
From: coulman@cs.Usask.CA (Randy Coulman)
Subject: Re: Is there a PACKAGE PROBLEM in Allegro?
Reply-To: coulman@cs.Usask.CA
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 19:54:07 GMT

In article <1b2epeINN9t0@early-bird.think.com>, barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin) writes:
>In article <1992Oct8.194535.8326@chesapeake.ads.com> jclose@chesapeake.ads.com (Jeff Close) writes:
>>Hi.  I'm using Allegro CL on a Sparc 1.1 and am getting strange behavior in
>>some code regarding package redefinition.  At least, it's strange compared to 
>>what I would expect.  Specifically, it doesn't seem to have an effect when I
>>try to redefine a package.  The package itself is a problem because it doesn't
>>seem to "see" many common symbols from CLOS, including defclass and others, 
>>even though it uses CL-USER.
>
>CL-USER doesn't export anything by default, so a package that uses CL-USER
>isn't going to inherit anything from it.  You should specify CLOS in the
>:USE option when you create your package.
>

Actually, in Allegro (4.1 for sure, maybe 4.0 and up), the CLOS package only
contains stuff that hadn't been included in the draft standard as yet.  Jeff
(the original poster) should be :USEing the COMMON-LISP package.

>In general, including the CL-USER package in the :USE list of a package is
>a bad idea, since you (the software developer) have no idea what the end
>user may have done to the CL-USER package, and you may end up with
>unexpected conflicts.

I agree.

>-- 
>Barry Margolin
>System Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.
>
>barmar@think.com          {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar

Randy
-- 
Randy A. Coulman                |       ARIES Laboratory
                                |       Department of Computational Science
coulman@cs.Usask.ca             |       University of Saskatchewan
                                |       Saskatoon, SK   S7N 0W0             
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
From: reha@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Reha Elci)
Subject: Re: Is lisp easy to learn?
Reply-To: reha@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Reha Elci)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 20:47:48 GMT

In article <92288.145030REGHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> <REGHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>I just purchased a book for Lisp programming, but have never used this before.
>Is this easy to learn by myself by reading the manual and practicing on the
>computer?

LISP is ***the*** easiest language to learn by a 10:1 ratio to even the
nearest contender. So just get an interpreter and start typing. you do
not have to write a program like 'C' to learn it.

Reha Elci
Email: elci@bugs.gs.com
From: ead@cs.ucsb.edu (Eric De Mund)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Subject: Re: KCL for Sparc?
Date: 14 Oct 92 00:14:07 GMT
Reply-To: Eric De Mund <ead@cs.ucsb.edu>
Organization: UC Santa Barbara
X-Reply-To: Eric De Mund <ead@cs.ucsb.edu>

>Has anybody bult KCL for sun4 SPARCstations or SUN IPX?
>If so, what are the problems or is there a distribution?

gerry,

question 13 of the kcl faq (cli.com:/pub/kcl/kcl.faq, last modified
920923) indicates that it's no longer possible to build kcl under
sunos 4.1.x. however, akcl (austin kyoto common lisp) can be built
under sunos 4.1.x. i built it on my sparc1 with little difficulty
after retrieving the akcl and kcl sources from cli.com.

the faq gives you all the information you need.

eric de mund <ead@cs.ucsb.edu>

>13.  Can one still install KCL and not bother with AKCL?
>
>The last time I heard, a Sun OS upgrade made it impossible any longer to bring
>up KCL on a Sun-3 as one once could by following the 1987 instructions in the
>file kcl.broadcast, which announced the availability of KCL by anonymous ftp.
>Presumably this is a minor and easy to fix problem.  But because AKCL includes
>some bug fixes to KCL and deals with many operating system issues encountered
>since 1987, I recommend the use of AKCL rather than the 1987 version of KCL
>alone.
Xref: sparky comp.lang.lisp:2646 comp.lang.scheme:2357 news.answers:3406
From: psm@nosc.mil (Scot Mcintosh)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Novice question: What's a "binding"
Date: 13 Oct 92 22:56:42 GMT
Organization: Naval Ocean Systems Center, San Diego

I'm just getting familiar with Ada and there is a mystery I'm trying to
clear up: what is meant by "bindings"? I see the term appearing as a
noun, as in: "We supply X Windows bindings for Ada". My inference is
that they are what I have thought of in the past as libraries. Before
making a fool of myself in front of someone important, I figure I had
better ask. (Oops, not that you people aren't important: I mean
someone like a *customer*). If my inference is correct, how did
this term happen to be selected instead of the more common (I think)
"libraries"?

----
Scot McIntosh
Internet: psm%helios.nosc.mil@nosc.mil
UUCP:     {ihnp4,akgua,decvax,decwest,ucbvax}!sdscvax!nosc!psm
"These meetings will continue until we find out why no work is getting done"
 - Sign on conference room in Los Alamos.
-- 
----
Scot McIntosh
Internet: psm%helios.nosc.mil@nosc.mil
UUCP:     {ihnp4,akgua,decvax,decwest,ucbvax}!sdscvax!nosc!psm
From: curtis@dataco.UUCP (Ralph Curtis)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: CASE tools
Keywords: CASE CADRE TEAMWORK
Date: 9 Oct 92 15:38:29 GMT
Reply-To: curtis@dataco.UUCP (Ralph Curtis)
Distribution: na
Organization: Canadian Marconi Company (Datacomm), Ottawa, Ontario


I'm investigating using CADRE's Teamwork tools for ADA development on a SUN
network. I would appreciate hearing from anyone with experience of this
product. For example:

	- Is it suitable for a large development effort (say 20 to 40
	  person team)? eg. configuration control etc.
	  
	- How good is the code generation? ie. does 50% of the coding job,
	  is effcient, etc.

	- How difficult is it to maintain the structure graphs etc.? Is
	  the code injector easy or difficult to use?

	- General gripes and accolades.

I would also like to hear from anyone using a competitive product or anyone
having experience using CASE tools in general (pros and cons).

TIA.


***--------------------------------------------------------------***
* DISCLAIMER:                                                      *
* ==========:                                                      *
*    The opinions expressed are solely of the author and do not    *
*    necessarily reflect the opinions of Canadian Marconi Company. *
***--------------------------------------------------------------***
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From:  xim@bk901.exnet.msk.su (Maxim A.Titov)
Subject: <none>
Reply-To: xim@bk901.exnet.msk.su
Organization: ExNet  BK901 office
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 12:21:13 +0500 

May an Ada compiler implementor define Attributes within a STANDARD package?
Is it allowed to define all types herein (or not define some of them)?
Which types may be predefined before STANDARD?
Which Ada9X's implementation requirements (limitations, restrictions,...) to
a STANDARD package exist ?

Thanks in advance.
MxT
-- 
  Maxim A. Titov | International center of CS&E



Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: LJ10891@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Ada and real-time
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 17:45:15 GMT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
   I have heard of rate-monotonic scheduling.  Are there any other scheduling
theories which might be applicable to Ada tasking and which also provide a
means of conclusively demonstrating that some or all time constraints will
be satisfied?  If so, could you please point me towards the appropriate
references.

                            Trey Haddad (ghaddad@lmsc.lockheed.com)
I found these opinions on my doorstep, could you please give them a good home?
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: walls@saifr00.cfsat.honeywell.com (Gerald Walls)
Subject: Re: Ada and real-time
Organization: Honeywell Air Transport Systems Division
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 16:30:26 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.144135.24045@sei.cmu.edu> jbg@sei.cmu.edu (John Goodenough) writes:
>
>By "non-deterministic tasking" do you mean the fact that it can be difficult
>or impossible to write down a timeline for a set of Ada tasks, given
>variations in execution times and the effect of preemption?  If so, this is
>not, in itself, sufficient reason to conclude that Ada tasking is unsuitable
>for embedded real-time systems.  
>

the FAA requires this in avionics software.  Ada tasking is not
suitable for real-time avionics software.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: stt@spock.camb.inmet.com (Tucker Taft)
Subject: Re: Generic Instantiation as Subprogram Body? (Clarification)
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 22:51:15 GMT

In article <dnsurber.719094603@node_26400> 
dnsurber@lescsse.jsc.nasa.gov (Douglas N. Surber) writes:

> . . .
>There does not appear to be any clean way to use an instance of a
>generic as the implementation of a subroutine declared in a package spec
>without putting the instantiation in the spec itself.  If for some
>reason I wanted to implement a subroutine in that fashion, I wouldn't
>want that to be part of the spec.  It is an implementation detail and
>doesn't belong in the spec.  So, three questions:
>
>1) Is there anyway to do this other than the kludges I listed in my
>   original posting?
>
>2) If not, what was the rationale behind this restriction?
>
>3) Has this been fixed in Ada 9X?

Well, yes and no.  The current 9X proposals allow
the body of a subprogram to be a rename, including
a rename of an instantiation.

For readability and consistency reasons the body may not 
be an instantiation itself, since an instantiation
does not repeat the parameter profile, so correlating it
with the specification that it is implementing
is a potentially error-prone process in the presence of overloading.

Admittedly, allowing renames of instantiations but
not instantiations themselves seems a little arbitrary,
and we welcome comments on this issue if there are strong
feelings either way.

>Once again, I know lots of ways to implement relations, I am trying to
>understand a glitch in the language definition that improperly couples
>the specification of a package with its implementation.
>
>Douglas Surber
>Lockheed
>Houston, TX

S. Tucker Taft   stt@inmet.com
Ada 9X Mapping/Revision Team
Intermetrics, Inc.
Cambridge, MA
From: danr@ada1.ssd.csd.harris.com (Dan Rittersdorf)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Re: Does the LRM permit parameter passing by reference?
Summary: yep.
Date: 9 Oct 92 14:11:46 GMT
Organization: Harris CSD, Ft. Lauderdale, FL
NNTP-Posting-Host: ada1.ssd.csd.harris.com

In article <1992Oct9.023807.20641@beaver.cs.washington.edu> simonson@cs.washington.edu (Kevin Simonson) writes:
>     I was under the impression that Ada made local copies of parameter
>values when a procedure was called.  However my Verdix compiler apparently
>does calls by reference when the call is for a string value, as demonstrat-
>ed by the script file below.  Notice how the parameter "COPY" (which Ada
>won't allow code to alter inside the procedure) changes its value from the
>first "put_line" to the second.
>
>     Is it legal for Ada to allow this parameter to change in the middle of
>the procedure, or have I found a bug?
>
>                                     ---Kevin

   Kevin, RM 6.2(7) addresses this issue.  For arrays, records, or task types,
   the LRM gives the implementation the option of pass by reference or
   value.  The Verdix compiler and derivatives pass arrays by reference, 
   and since strings are arrays of character, it is also passed by reference.

   Note that for scalar types (integers, enumerations, floating and
   fixed point types) the LRM explicitly requires pass by value.  You can
   count on it for these types.

   Note also that any program that depends on the parameter passing
   mechanism (for arrays, records, or task types) is declared "erroneous"
   by the LRM, which means that the program is in error, but the compiler
   is not required to detect this dependence and issue an error message.

-- 
-danr
______________________________________________________________________________
  Dan Rittersdorf                           danr@travis.ssd.csd.harris.com
  Harris Corporation, Computer Systems Division, Fort Lauderdale, FL 33309
______________________________________________________________________________
-Won by One        "Sync or be Sunc"
Newsgroups: src.ada,comp.lang.ada
From: englehar@src.honeywell.com (Matt Englehart)
Subject: sequential io with multiple types
To: src.ada, comp.lang.ada
Posted-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 21: 37:23 CDT
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 02:37:23 GMT
Received-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 21: 37:01 CDT

Along the same lines as my previous question, suppose that I have a file
with short_floats and integers written out in binary format (by a fortran
program, as real*4 and integer*4).  If I instantiate SEQUENTIA_IO with type 
integer, and read all data as an integer, how do I convert data that is not
an integer from the integer value read in to the true short_float
representation?

Thanks, Matt

Matthew J. Englehart                      Voice: (612)-951-7635
Honeywell Systems and Research Center     FAX:   (612)-951-7438
3660 Technology Dr.   MS:MN65-2500        Inet: englehar@src.honeywell.com
Minneapolis, MN 55418

Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu (Michael Feldman)
Subject: Re: Does the LRM permit parameter passing by reference?
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 04:16:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.162045.5904@nobeltech.se> dawe@nobeltech.se (Daniel Wengelin) writes:
>
>Having read the debate on allowed parameter passing mechanisms, I would
>like to follow up with a related question.
>
>The LRM does (as far as I've understood) allow for an implementation to
>skip the "copy-back" of parameters in case an exception is raised preventing
>a normal return. What's the impact of this in the real world? Are any 
>compilers using this optimization feature?
>
For the case of scalar parameters, what you describe as an "optimization"
is in fact REQUIRED by the LRM, sect. 6.2. I quote:

"...after NORMAL completion of the subprogram body, if the mode is OUT
or IN OUT, the value of the formal parameter IS copied back into the 
associated actual parameter."

I have capitalized NORMAL to indicate that if an exception is propagated
from the subprogram, the copyback is NOT done. I have emphasized IS as
well - it does not say "may be."

For the case of composite parameters (arrays, records), it's best to assume
no copyback, because the parameters can (and usually are) passed by
reference. This is discussed in the same section of the LRM.

Mike Feldman
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael B. Feldman
co-chair, SIGAda Education Committee

Professor, Dept. of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
School of Engineering and Applied Science
The George Washington University
Washington, DC 20052 USA
(202) 994-5253 (voice)
(202) 994-5296 (fax)
mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu (Internet)

"Americans wants the fruits of patience -- and they want them now."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: smccoy@dw3g.ess.harris.com (Scott McCoy)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Re: Assy/Ada SLOC ratio;What's an Ada SLOC?
Date: 15 Oct 92 13:15:11 GMT
Organization: Harris Corporation Information Systems Division

Before I start: my apologies if this a repeat of an earlier
post of mine.  My newsreader crapped out in the middle of
my previous write-up, and I can't get any indication that
the original post made it.  So, I'll repeat myself...:-)

In article <1992Oct14.121432.10919@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu>, dlc@ddsdx2.jhuapl.edu (Dave Collard x7468) writes:

[...source code example deleted...]

|> 
|> IMHO, any method that depends on semicolons for counting
|> lines of code is pretty useless.
|> 

You've hit on a key point here -- what do you expect your SLOC
metric to measure?  Size?  Complexity?  The answer you give
can effect the method used to count SLOC.

I haven't seen a consensus in the Ada community on this topic,
and I've been developing/managing Ada projects since 1985.  So
there is probably not one answer to 'what is an Ada SLOC'...

One approach I used in the past is 'every non-blank, non-comment
line is a LOC'.  I fully recognize that this method is highly
dependent upong the programming and formating style.  For example,
a module written using named parameters, and a formatter which
breaks each parameter onto a separate line would have a higher
count then just using positional parameters.  Also, change your
margins for your formatter, and the count changes again.

I point these out to show there are limitations to any method
of counting SLOC.

-- 
Scott McCoy	Harris ISD	Opinions expressed are my own.
Staff Eng - SW	Internet: 	smccoy@dw3g.ess.harris.com
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.realtime
From: tbc@col.hp.com (Tim Chambers)
Subject: Re: What is "real-time"?
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 21:38:20 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division (PL 17)

rlk@VisiCom.COM (Bob Kitzberger) writes:
> Can anyone from comp.realtime post a pithy summary definition of 
> comp.realtime's "conclusions" on what is real-time?

Hi, Bob,

First I'll explain the approach which is used in our organization.  Rather
than define "real-time" software, we break it into two categories:
"time-sensitive" and "time-critical."  Time-sensitive software is that for
which there is some kind of continuous function (typically linear) for how
"well" the software does its job based on how fast it runs.  A compiler is an
ideal example.  The faster it runs, the "better" it is -- everyone *wants*
faster compile times.

Time-critical software uses a step function to define its quality -- it either
runs fast enough to do the job or it doesn't do the job.  If the software
can't keep up with external stimulus it *ceases to function*.  And running
faster doesn't necessarily improve the quality of time-critical software,
either (what quality improvement could a 68040 add to a Hayes-compatible
1200-baud modem, anyway, other than allowing the modem to run UNIX at the same
time :-).

To contrast the two, consider the software in a GUI.  The software that moves
the sprite in response to mouse movements is more time-sensitive than
time-critical -- no one *wants* the sprite to lag behind mouse movements on a
window, but one can live with it.  The time-critical aspect is in the data
acquisition as the mouse ball sends data up the I/O port to the computer.

So to draw a distinction between "real-time" software and non-real-time
software, we only consider the "time-critical" software to be in the former
category.  "Real time systems" have a mix of time-sensitive and time-critical
software.

If you want other views, I've put a file on hpcsos.col.hp.com (15.255.240.16)
called pub/realtime.Z.  It contains about 40 articles from comp.realtime that
I've collected over the years on this subject.  Compressed it's 69Kb.
Uncompressed, it 3343 lines, 154Kb.  I haven't read it all thoroughly enough
to summarize.

I don't think I've seen a FAQ for this newsgroup -- if there's interest, I'm
willing to compile one, starting with an answer to this question.  Mail me
your votes and advice.


Tim Chambers                               ||  tbc@col.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard Company                    ||  
P.O. Box 2197                              ||  (719) 590-5570 (office)
Colorado Springs, CO 80901-2197            ||  (719) 488-3345 (home)
                                           ||  FAX: (719) 590-5054
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: csa@engr.ucf.edu (Carolyn Anderson)
Subject: Wanted: Pretty Printers
Organization: engineering, University of Central Florida, Orlando
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:03:56 GMT

Can any one help me find a 'good' Ada pretty printer?

I am using a Verdix compiler version 6.0.2 (g) but I cannot use a.pr
because, while it allows me to set some things the way I want them, it
uncontrolably changes things I want left alone.

Please mail your suggestions to csa@apocalypse.engr.ucf.edu.  Thanks in
advance!


Carolyn Anderson
Newsgroups: src.ada,comp.lang.ada