HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: larrigan@eeserv.ee.umanitoba.ca (John Larrigan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Colt Sportster/AR-15 Magazine Compatibility?
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:07:07 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada

kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. Whitehead) writes:

#I understand that the new "sporterized" version of the AR-15 that
#they only supply a 5 round magazine.  Will extended capacity (i.e.,
#20, 30, 40 round) magazines designed for the AR-15/M16 work in the
#new version of the gun?

Yes.

#(I know that this probably sounds like a dumb question, and I'm sure
#the answer is probably yes, which leaves me wondering, why did they
#bother?)

To try and shake the "assault rifle" stigma associated with the gun,
which is the same reason they cut off the bayonet lug.  There may
have been some foreseeable legal hassels.  For example in Canada semi
auto center fire rifles can only have a 5 shoot clip, but I doubt this
had much to do with the decision. 

John L.
From: X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Need help restoring a family relic
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:13:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: tamvm1.168488152.X005CB
Organization: Texas A&M University

#X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes) writes:
#
##My parents have recently passed down a family relic to me, a pre-civil
##war, double barrel shotgun (looks like 12 ga.).  Unfortanetly, my
##parents stored it in the attic - loose.  It's rusted, the stock is
##broken, and one of the hammers is missing.
 
#[MODERATOR:  Let me underscore the caution that Dan gives above.  Remember
#that a shotgun from that era is likely to be a *blackpowder* shotgun, and
#is unlikely to ever shoot any modern load you can find in a store.]
#
 
Just a point:  I do not intend for the gun to be restored to shooting
condition, just for display....
 
      ----------------------------------------------
Chris Barnes            |
x005cb@tamvm1.tamu.edu  |  Only 14 more days until the start of
(409) 846-3273 (home)   |           hunting season (in Texas)
(409) 845-8454 (work)   |

[MODERATOR:  A followup point then... should you restore it enough that
it could appear shootable, even if it is not, then you should also take
some steps to ensure that someone else is not deceived into trying it
out, leading to tragedy.  Should you, God forbid, get run over by a bus,
will the firearm pass to someone who doesn't have such access to all this
net.wisdom?  Will they say "Hey, looks like Uncle Chris restored this, let
me go get some 3" magnum turkey loads and try it out..." ?  At least you
should chamber a red tag that says "NO, don't shoot this, really...."]
From: lcline@agora.uucp (Larry Cline)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Browning A-bolt
Date: 18 Aug 92 12:25:10 GMT
Organization: Open Communications Forum

In article <9208172324.AA14984@dvorak.amd.com> mbehrens@aunext3.amd.com (mikael behrens x54752) writes:
#I'm going to be buying a hunting rifle in the near future and after doing some  
#preliminary research, I like the stainless steel Browning A-bolt alot.  The  
#reduced bolt rotation, glass-bedded free-floating barrel, and detatchable mag  
#are some of the features that attract me to it.  As far as calibre, I'm trying  
#to decide between .308, 30'06, and .270.
#
#I'd appreciate any general information and opinions of this gun.  How's the  
#accuracy?  Does the A-bolt have any horrible flaws that aren't immediately  
#obvious (BESIDES being made in Japan)?
#
#Mikael
#


I bought an A-bolt for a lady friend to use while elk hunting (not the
stainless though - it was the composite stalker).  I like it a lot.  At the
last trip to the range it put 4 .30 caliber holes, overlapping side by
side, in the 9 ring (overall group size was .3 inches tall by 1 inch across).
BTW, it is a 30-06.  The magazine only holds 4 rounds (but you can keep a
fifth in the chamber  [boy does that bring up pictures in the imagination
B-)] if you like).  The safety is under the thumb and easily manuvered.
The composite stock seems to absorb some of the recoil because it seems to
be easier to shoot than some of the other '06 rifles I've fired before.
At least a little easier on the shoulder.

One complaint, which is strictly a personal perception, is that the bolt
seems to rattle a lot until it is locked in.  Also, I have had a couple of
misfeeds until I got used to the idea that the bolt must be pulled all the
way back to the stop before pushing it back forward.


-- 
Larry Cline
lcline@agora.rain.com
C_________   Industrial Graphics
From: tmoore@wildwood.tinton.ccur.com (Tim Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: reloading & lead
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:09:45 GMT
Organization: Concurrent Computer Corporation

In article <51870018@hpscit.sc.hp.com>, glaird@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Gordon
Laird) writes:
|> swatt@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt) writes:
|> 
|> # After spending considerable effort to find a nice clean-burning powder for
|> # my reloads, someone at the range finally told me all that smoke was
|> # vaporized lead and bullet lube! 
|> 
|>     WRONG!  I have experimented alot with various powder and bullet
|> combinations.  I can testify from direct experience that powder is the 
|> biggest single factor in haze/smoke produced.
|> 
	[stuff deleted]

I disagree.  I shoot a lot of IPSC and when we shoot .45 cast lead SWC with
one lube groove there is lots of white smoke.  However guys/gals shooting
either jacketed or copper clad bullets make *no* smoke.  Common "IPSC lore"
is that the smoke comes from the lube.  We avoid it indoors so we can see
better.

Also I thought that lead poisoning from shooting indoors was *mostly*
from the primers and not the bullets.   Hence the rumored availability
of leadless primers.

And finally when someone talks about powders burning clean or dirty I have
always interpreted this as an indication of how much residue is left in
the gun (which is proportional to how hard it is to clean) as opposed to
how much
smoke it makes.  

Tim Moore "IPSC Cowboy"
From: les@ulysses.att.com (Leslie Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: chinese air rifle comments
Date: 12 Aug 92 23:33:31 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Murray Hill, NJ, USA


In article <1992Aug7.221616.23458@panix.com> henryc@panix.com (Henry Chan) writes:
#
#I've notice an ad appearing in Shotgun News and Guns magazine advertising a
#Chinese air-rifle called the TS45.  The TS45 is a side lever spring rifle with
#adjustable sights capable of shooting 800 fps.  
#
#Anyone who has owned one of these rifles can you comment on the quality, 
#reliability and accuract of the rifle?  Is the TS45 a training rifle modeled
#an SKS or such similiar military rifle?  Judging from the ad, the front sight
#seems to be a ringed post sight and the rear sight a notched leaf sight.  Is the
#rear adjustable for windage?  Does it have a sight rail in case I decide to add
#a daisy pointsight in the future.

The TS45 is an SKS trainer made in the same factory as the SKS,
according to the importer (Compasseco.)  The stock, the sights,
finish, lousy trigger :-) etc. are just like the SKS.  The 800 fps
figure is probably true, and they are very accurate, better than the
RWS 36 - which costs something like five times as much.  Trigger pull
is very heavy though.  You are right about the sights.  The rear is
elevation-adjustable leaf not adjustable for windage, but the front
is.  Compasseco has a kludgy scope mount that replaces the rear sight,
but I wouldn't recommend it because it doesn't stay put very well.

	Compasseco, Inc.
	P.O. Box 423-S, 801 Taylorsville Road
	Bloomfield, KY 40008
	(502)252-7226
	$39.95+$5 shipping (Shotgun News price)


--
  - Leslie Johnson  (les@ulysses.att.com) 1+908-582-5493
       "One Bell System - It Works"
From: bercov@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (John Bercovitz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ballistics at high altitude
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:09:49 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California

In article <9208202006.AA16726@tbone3.cs.itc.hp.com> fleck@cs.itc.hp.com 
(Dave Fleck) writes:

#Reading the ballistics for my .300 mag I was reading along and noticed a
#portion that commented that at higher altitudes the ballistics might vary.

To find the effect of altitude, temperature, barometric pressure, look
in the back of the Sierra reloading manual.  There are too many equations
(simple equations, though) to put in a posting.

John Bercovitz     (JHBercovitz@lbl.gov)
Obey gravity.
From: mbehrens@barqs.amd.com (Mikael Behrens)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Browning A-bolt
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:37:39 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <1992Aug18.152338.26314@u.washington.edu>  
toby@milton.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw) writes:
# 
# The only major flaw with the Browning A-bolt (IMHO) is that the it
# has the typical lawyer trigger found on all standard factory rifles
# of any make.  Prepare to use a come-along to pull the 6+ pound trigger.
# Unlike the Remington (best) or Winchester (pretty good) offerings,
# the Browning trigger adjustment is internal only, no screws to help
# with the pull weight, sear engagement, or overtravel.  My gunsmith
# informs me that internal trigger work voids the Browning warranty;
# I don't know the official Browning position on this.  I've never
# seen a good aftermarket trigger (Jewell, Shilen, Timney, or Canjar)
# for the A-bolt; if I did it might change my mind.

According to the 1992 Browning catalog, the A-bolt DOES have a screw-adjustable  
trigger set at the factory at about 4 pounds.  The ones I dry-fired seemed to  
have good triggers.  Could this be a recent modification?

Mikael
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: Surplus Rifle Advice
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:41:08 GMT

#Navy Arms
#will (hopefully :) ) soon have a bolt action in 7.62x39mm.

You've been waiting for it too, eh?  I first saw the announcement
back in December.

#Mausers in 6.5mm are a decent choice if you can get brass; 6.5mm/.257
#bullets are readily available.

Just a correction:  6.5mm is actually .264 caliber, not .257.


Rob
From: andy@sail.stanford.edu (Andy Freeman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Should my first handgun be a .22? (Too wimpy for defense?)
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:41:28 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.

In article <1992Aug19.141118.21990@news.yale.edu> swatt%mickey@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt) writes:
#The original post lists requirements which are mutually exclusive.

Yup.

#Let's stick to the requirement for "learning to shoot a handgun".

In particular, let's stick to the version that implies ".22";
there are other versions which don't.

#For this purpose, the .22 rimfire excells and nothing else really comes close.
#Basically, a decent .22 is inexpensive to purchase and maintain, downright
#cheap to feed, and the low recoil and blast noise (a) reduce flinch, and (b)
#make any flinch obvious to see.

If that's the criteria, there's an even better choice, a good air gun.
Air guns have lots of "not a gun" advantages.  (Air gun restrictions
are never stricter than those for guns.)  For target work, the lack of
range can be taken care of by going with smaller targets.

Don't get me wrong, I like .22s.  However, if you believe in the
criteria that suggest that .22s are the best choice for learning
shooting, you've just talked yourself into an air gun.  (I think that
there are other factors, factors which EXCLUDE .22s.)

-andy
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
From: sorrow@maple.circa.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Stainless barrels
Date: 19 Aug 92 23:44:05 GMT
Organization: Center for Instructional and Research Computing Activities


What are the advantages/disadvantages of a stainless barrel on a rifle?  Aside
from the obvious corrosion resistance, how good is it when it comes to wear
and tear, accuracy, cleaningability, etc.

Specifically, this is for a REM 700 PSS in .308.

Also, how much does one cost?

Brian

[MODERATOR: Does "it looks keen" count....?]
From: bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Another irritating S&W 586 question
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:08:24 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group


/ iftccu:rec.guns / donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) /  2:36 pm  Aug 18, 1992 /
#I noticed, while looking at the original instructions, that it looks
#like the barrel screws right off.  Would it be possible for me to
#remove the 4 inch barrel, replace it with a 6 inch barrel myself?
#For long distance plinking, could I attach a scope to that long barrel
#or would I also have to alter the frame?

If you want to buy some special tools to avoid likely bending the frame,
and you want to learn how to fit a new barrel, yes you could.  It probably
isn't worth it though.

Rick.
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: Stupid Shooter Tricks
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:13:37 GMT

Well, maybe not stupid, but...

I used to have a T/C Contender with a 14" .44 Magnum barrel and Pachmayr
grips.  I shot fairly stout handloads, but recoil was relatively light
because of the grips and barrel length.  Well, one day we were shooting,
and another guy let me shoot his 4" barrelled .44 Magnum revolver with
wood grips.  I cupped my right hand under the grip, aimed and pulled
the trigger.  I felt pain in my right hand, looked and noticed that I
now had a nice gash in my hand that was shaped like the bottom of
the grip.

I now hold hard-kicking guns differently....

Rob
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re:  X's on Bullet
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:34:00 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <1992Aug13.165728.4631@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:
}#From article <1992Aug11.232926.15819@ttinews.tti.com>, by hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath):
}# In article <9208070956.AA18295@mimsy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
}# 
}#}My favorite movie trick - drill out the bullets, put a drop or
}#}two of mercury in the cavity, and re-seal it.  I believe this was
}#}done in the movie 'The Exterminator.'
}# 
}# "Day of the Jackal", both book and film.
}#
}
}I thought he was using explosive bullets with fulminate of
}mercury.  ...

The book went into some detail about their construction.  They
were supposedly just mercury filled.

}I think we went over this before.  Won't the mercury pretty
}quickly absorb the lead in the bullet? 

Maybe that's why he had them made by a master gunsmith.  Must be
some secret to making them work.  Of course, fiction is fiction ...

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: clean reloading
Date: 21 Aug 92 03:36:08 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <1992Aug18.234323.13399@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au> ghm@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller) writes:

}... unless every shooter on the range
}is using lead-free combustible components (and the .22 shooters won't
}have any say in how their ammo is constructed) you efforts will give
}you a warm inner glow from having done the right thing and that's about
}all.

And if everyone takes that attitude and doesn't bother, things will never
get better.

I think I started the staff at my local range thinking, at least, when I
pointed out I could buy 9mm CCI Blazer lead-free ammunition cheaper than
they could sell me reloads ($7/box, by the case).  I assume the people
selling it to me are making a profit.  Anyway, they said they'd try to get
lead-free primers for their reloads.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: leem@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Lee Mellinger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Travelling help
Date: 21 Aug 92 03:35:47 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)

In article <1992Aug20.005348.10276@megatek.uucp> megatek!cjp@uunet.UU.NET (Chris "Systems Stud" Pikus) writes:
:#From article <lairdb.714255004@crash>, by lairdb@crash.cts.com:
:# In <1992Aug19.022135.16461@ttinews.tti.com> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
:# 
:# [wrt Kalifornia]
:# #                                                               Remember
:# #that loaded magazine == loaded gun (in fact, live ammunition touching any
:# #part of a gun, including the magazine, is legally the same as a loaded
:# #gun).
:# 
:# Incidenatlly, this has come up before.  I got curious, and talked 
:# (informally) to several people about it, all of whom "had never heard
:# such a ridiculous interpretation" (roughly the words of a local ADA.)
:# He pointed out what I had thought, that the wording of the PC section
:# in question is most sensibly read to say that if the magazine is out
:# of the firearm, then it's not loaded.
:# Laird P. Broadfield     lairdb@crash.cts.com    ...{ucsd, nosc}!crash!lairdb
:
:	Here it is in black and white [or green and black for you crt guys].
:
:   California Penal code:
:
:   Section 12031(g):

[deleted PC]:
:
:Christopher J. Pikus,        | "Forgive me for not knowing about El Salvador. 

This was codified in 1991 with all the other changes that occured in
the firearms statues that year.  Previous to that, it was in effect by
way of court decision.  This shows up in the annotated penal codes,
the place you should always look as court interpetation can change the
literal text considerably.


Lee


"Mit Pulver und Blei, die Gedanken sind frei."

|Lee F. Mellinger                 Caltech/Jet Propulsion Laboratory - NASA
|4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109 818/354-1163  FTS 792-1163     
|leem@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV
From: syoung@pecanpi.UUCP (Stan Young)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Magazine disconnect safety (was Re: Stupid shooter tricks)
Date: 19 Aug 92 02:16:59 GMT
Organization: Pecan Pi, Doraville, Georgia


In article <1992Aug17.135836.2398@crash> jca@crash.cts.com writes:

<Tale of evolution in action deleted.>

#Now that is stupidity.  There's always a chance that any given safety
#may malfunction.  But since you have drifted into a mild tangent
#about magazine disconnect safeties.  I wasn't aware of Browning pistols
#having a magazine disconnect safety, but only S&W pistols.  Could
#someone please elaborate if this is true or not.

The Browning High Power normally has a magazine disconnector.  So far as I know,
all of the civilian models, and MOST of the military models came with them.
But you'll find a LOT of HP's without them.  Many folks didn't like magazine
disconnectors on principle, others removed them in an attempt to improve the
trigger pull of the HP.  (There was a time when you could do this sort of
thing without running afoul of liability lawyers.)

So it isn't suprising that you thought the HP didn't have a magazine
disconnector; it is quite possible that you've never seen one WITH the
disconnector.

And while we are on the subject, not all S&W semi-auto's have magazine
disconnectors.  I know of at least one that was factory made without one.
On the right side of the slide, between the ejection port and the muzzle, 
appears the legend:

	CAUTION: CAPABLE OF FIRING WITH MAGAZINE REMOVED

It took me a LONG time to get that gun made, but it was worth it!



-- 

Stan Young                                {emory, slammer}!pecanpi!syoung
From: spf@hoqaa.att.com (Steven P Frysinger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Old-time explosive shells (was Re: Top Man Stoppers??)
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:42:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsl.1992Aug19.170918.19295
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

#From article <1992Aug18.140803.17224@CERIS.Purdue.EDU>, by jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath):
# BTW, does anyone know how explosive cannon balls (or modern
# cannon shells for that matter) worked?  It doesn't seem like they
# could have run the fuse throught the touch hole and achieved any
# speed.  Did they load the fuse against the powder charge and hope
# for the best? 

In the 18th century, at least, the fuses for howitzer and mortar shells
were wooden pegs with a small hole drilled through the center.  This
hole was packed with gunpowder.  Since air was restricted, the burn time
is finite and computable.  The peg would be pounded into the hole in the
shell.  How to adjust the burn time time of the fuse to match the
range so that it'll go off over the heads of the troops?  Before pounding
in the peg, measure down from the top the distance that matches your
desired time, and cut halfway through the peg with a saw (I suppose you
could cut the inside end all the way off, but it doesn't matter).
Notice, a fair bit of math required to compute the transit time of a ball
flying an arc which is itself determined by both the angle and the powder
charge.

Now, as to your question, it was the undesirable job of the #2 mattrosse
(the lowest ranking man on the crew, in the ram/sponge position at the
muzzle) to ensure that the shell was set with the fuse located proporly
to be ignited by the propulsion blast.  I believe that this meant putting
the fuse against the bore (against the powder bag wouldn't work because
the remnants of the powder bag, either linen or lead foil, would block the
fuse).  I've heard that for mortars, the poor schmuck actually reached down
the loaded barrel with his arm to turn the ball! Our cannon is a "gun"
(fires solid ball and cannister), so I don't have experience with the
"howitzers" or "mortars" which fire exploding shells.  I AM ram/sponge,
though, and did once get to unload a failed round (the theory is that the
guy who loaded it takes the risks).

Steve Frysinger

PS: A tidbit.  When is a soldier permitted to strike his superior?
When the ram/sponge, #2 mattrosse, withdraws the wet lambs wool sponge
and DOESN'T hear a "pop", it means that the gunner at the breech failed
to block the vent hole with his thumb.  The mattrosse (basically a buck
private) is then permitted to strike the gunner (basically a specialist)
with his rammer staff, since the gunner recklessly risked the mattrosse's
life.
From: PATE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU (BILL PATE, ADMIN. SERVICES, PATE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bolo ammunition
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:34:06 GMT

#>>>>>>> They had other strange things like two halves of a slug that were
#connected by a segment of piano wire.  Theoretically they would make a bolo
#while in flight (actually these were used to be used in the days of wooden
#ships and cannons, made a mess of the other guys rigging).

This reminds of a cannon innovation which came about during the War for
Southern Independence (a.k.a. Civil War). The cannon was double-barreled.
The cannon balls were connected with a length of chain. The purpose was to
mow down rows of approaching troops. In actual practice the minor differences
in firing times resulted in hooks and slices all over the place. That was far
better, however, than a misfire in one of the barrels: that took out the gun
crew. Before you ask, I don't remember which side invented it.