HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Where do I start with coaching?
Date: 22 Jan 93 12:59:14 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <1993Jan20.135640.13098@mcs.kent.edu> sscott@mcs.kent.edu (Stephen Scott) writes:

   I would suggest some simple gentle streching and then just have fun
   with the runs together at first.  I would say that your job with
   beginners is more cheerleader than coach.  Get them hooked and then
   worry about coaching....  Most important point is to get them into
   good shoes - not the local Kmart specials...

I've been reading this group for a few weeks now, and I'm getting very
interested; but this is all I've seen so far in the way of advice for total
beginners.  

How should I, an unfit fat couch potato, start running safely and enjoyably,
without putting myself off running for life?

For example - what sort of warm-up exercises should a beginner do
before/after going for a run?  What distance should I run (about 50 yards
seems to be my current limit :-) ), and how often?  Just what makes shoes
good for running in, and how much should I be prepared to pay?  Does the
Noakes book, which everyone recommends, have much advice for beginners?

I'd be very grateful for any advice you could give me, from long helpful
essays to "look, bonehead, go away and read XXXX"!
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)

		
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: getachew@yosemite.math.ucla.edu (getachew hagos)
Subject: Re: Why are Kenyans so fast (rebutal)
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Dept.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 05:28:26 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.150516.21970@kth.se> TordM@VanA.PhySto.SE writes:
>In article <1k0strINNnq7@savoy.cc.williams.edu>, Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu writes:
>
>>	No one has yet replied to my question about the physical 
>>benefits of spending childhood barefoot.  Am I completely off the
>>wall?
>
> okay, I'll bite.. again...
> it is believed that if you're very active when you're a little kid your
>body will get more tolerant to stress. The kids in Kenya run all their life
>from they're small kids, so their bodies are very well adapted to stress,
>and therefore they can train harder, while most people in the western world
>sit and get weak, go everywhere by car, and so on...
> As for running bare-foot, I've only read an article in Runner's World that
>it's bad for your feet to run with shoes... 
>
>
I guess I have to agree with you. The current world record holder Ethiopian 
'Belaynhe Densimo' have 2:06:50 in Amesterdam 1988. When he came back home, 
Ethiopia, He came with a huge money and a new car, after that if I correctly 
remember he did it once at 2:08:xx. Now it has already been 4 years since he 
got the car, and  I don't even think of him doing it at 2:20. I'm an Ethiopian 
and I know about 'Belaynhe' that is why I commented...

BTW Aren't the Ethiopians better runners than the Kenyans? I'm surprised and 
actually disappointed no body mentioned about us. At least I remember one 
episode where Ethiopians and Kenyans compete (I think it was in Kenya)
all 1st, 2nd and 3rd ranks were taken by Ethiopians. But that does not mean 
that the Kenyans are not good and I don't mean that either, I am saying 
Ethiopians are very good too. I hope you all remember the bare feet Marathon
winner 'Abebe Bekila' of Ethiopia. Did You?
I love Ethiopia!!!
Have a good day.
From: ee52fas@sdcc15.ucsd.edu (Anand Rao)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: training advice
Date: 25 Jan 93 02:15:55 GMT

i've been running about 4 miles a day for  5 days a week now for
a couple years.  i do it just to keep in cardiovascular shape.

lately, i have been considering training for a marathon.  anybody
have any suggestions for a training scheduele? I'm 20 years old
now and want to be ready in about 6 months.  is this possible?


Newsgroups: rec.running
From: magdi@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Magdi N Azer)
Subject: Is running with shin splints okay?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 22:14:50 GMT

	Thanks to all who have posted responses to my questions.  I have
abother one.  If a person has shin splints, is it okay/safe to run.
Assumming that you are doing exercises to strengthen the muscles on the
front of the legs, can you still run?  Also, for these strengthening
exercises, how long should one expect it to take for the exercises to
have an affect combatting the shin splints.

Magdi N. Azer
magdi@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu
From: Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: re: Narrow width running shoes?
Date: 23 Jan 1993 21:58:15 GMT
Organization: Williams College, Williamstown, MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: seeley_04333.williams.edu


In article <1993Jan22.113110.57@pasadena-dc.bofa.com> robertson@pasadena-dc.bofa.com writes:
>I'm new to this group, so maybe this is a FAQ.
>
>I have narrow feet.  Can I buy running shoes in a narrow width?  Are there
>stores in the Southern California area that sell them?

	Asics shows tend to run narrower than most, tho they don't come
in widths.  New Balance shoes come in widths.

	Coty Pinckney			Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Is running with shin splints okay?
Date: 27 Jan 1993 14:02:30 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland
NNTP-Posting-Host: athens.eng.umd.edu

In article <C1Hy82.4HL@acsu.buffalo.edu> v070rajv@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Matthew Lewis) writes:
>
>I have always thought that one of the only ways to deal with shin splints was
>to run through them.

That's a good way to end up with permanent discomfort that no doctor can
cure. With misinformation like this, it's no wonder there are so many
inquiries about injuries at rec.running.

If something hurts, you better stop immediately. Pain and injury hardly
contribute to a productive workout.
From: cegtitd@prism.gatech.EDU (Tim Dodd)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: treadmill?
Date: 28 Jan 93 14:49:29 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1993Jan25.004320.4339@vax.cns.muskingum.edu> jbuddenberg@vax.cns.muskingum.edu writes:
>
>What are the disadvantages of running on a treadmill instead of the roadwork?
>Is it bad on the knees or what?  I don't think it would hurt for LOW mileage 
>but what about mileage of say 30-40+ miles per week?
>Thanks

I run on a treadmill sometimes when it's pouring down rain outside.  According
to a recent _Runner's World_ article (sometime last fall), the treadmill is
actually easier on the joints than the roads.  (There's more cushion).
Another thing the article mentioned was that, since the motor is doing some
of the work for you, running flat on a treadmill is actually like running
downhill on the roads.  To simulate a flat outdoor surface, you should
incline the belt to about a 1-2% grade.  One more thing:  I find it VERY
boring!  There's no scenery moving by, no corners or curves, etc.  I like
to add some variety to a treadmill workout be varying the pace & grade.
Some guy in the _RW_ article mentioned running on a treadmill for 2 HOURS!
I cannot imagine myself doing this!

Tim
-- 
Tim Dodd, Research Scientist, Georgia Tech:  cegtitd@prism.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: tordm@vand (Tord G.M. Malmgren)
Subject: Re: Why are Kenyans so fast (rebutal)
Reply-To: TordM@VanA.PhySto.SE
Organization: Department of Physics, University of Stockholm -- Sweden
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 11:45:18 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.124407.1@iowa.physics.uiowa.edu>, theisen@iowa.physics.uiowa.edu writes:

>Other points that The Article seemed to miss:

>	2) I think there have been less than 5 whites ever to run under 10.0
>	  for 100m (if any).  And I've heven't seen any whites run under
>	  44.2 for 400m

 I'd like to see the background of these sprinters.. I think that would be
very important. How many of them had ultra-rich parents? How many of them
come from a ghetto? I still believe in the tradition..

>	3) What about asian runners???

 this is interesting.. Laos came in last on 12.02 on 100m during the Olympics.

>	4) One thing I have noticed watching world class runners the last 
>	 several years is that most have a very pronounced curvature in their
>	 backs.  I don't mean big buttocks,  but a curvature that thrusts
>	the chest forward and hips back, it doesn't seem to matter how
>	muscular the person is.

 this could be explained by the training, I think. When you train your hip-
flexors they pull your lower back forward, and thus you get a curved back..
The buttocks grow, cos they're well-used, so to speak, and it adds to the
effect..




---------------+--------------------------------+----------------------------
 Tord Malmgren | InterNet: TordM@VanA.PhySto.SE | These opinions are my OWN,
               | BITNet  : TordM@SESUF51        | and NOT of this department!
---------------+--------------------------------+----------------------------
 Department of Physics, University of Stockholm -- Sweden (Northern Europe)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: high school sub-fours
From: wlange@eis.calstate.edu (Walter C. Lange)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:31:33 GMT
Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services

All-time list:

3:55.3  Ryun  65
3:59.4  Danielson 66
3:59.8  Liquori 67
4:01.5  Lindgren 64
4:02.4  Kimball 74
4:02.7  Centrowitz 73
4:03.5  Sullivan  61

about 20 others under 4:05.9.  This was as of 2 yrs ago. I would think
making Track & Field's top 50 annual list qualifies as national class. 
Nowadays, that takes about 4:16,  in the 70s it took around 4:12.
From: Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: high school sub-fours
Date: 22 Jan 93 14:43:58 GMT
Organization: Williams College, Williamstown, MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: seeley_04333.williams.edu


	Last night I looked through some old Track & Field News to see
how well some luminaries performed in HS.  Jim Spivey ran 4:07.7 for the
mile (I believe this was converted up from 1600) as a senior; 
interestingly, as a soph he ran only 4:36.  Morceli ran a 3:40 1500 as
an 18-yr old, clearly under 4:00 mile pace.  

	Coty Pinckney			Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu
From: Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Why are Kenyans so fast (rebutal)
Date: 26 Jan 1993 13:33:40 GMT
Organization: Williams College, Williamstown, MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: seeley_04333.williams.edu


In article <1993Jan26.052826.25334@math.ucla.edu> getachew@yosemite.math.ucla.edu (getachew hagos) writes:

>BTW Aren't the Ethiopians better runners than the Kenyans? I'm surprised and 
>actually disappointed no body mentioned about us.

	Certainly the history of Ethiopian marathoning is more 
illustrious than Kenyan marathoning, at least until Wakiihuru came
on the scene.  My recollection is that 10-15 years ago the 
Ethiopians were dominating the World Cross Country championships the
way the Kenyans are now.  On the track, the overall performance of
Kenyans has always been somewhat stronger than that of the Ethiopians
(but the Ethiopian record is much stronger than the American!).

	Coty Pinckney			Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu
From: steves@cs.athabascau.ca (Steve Schafer)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Crescent City 10-K
Date: 24 Jan 93 02:29:38 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Athabasca University


Would someone please be able to tell me where 
the Crescent City 10-K (New Orleans, 20 March 1993)
route is in relation to The Quarter House
(French Quarter).

I will be in New Orleans over that weekend and I am 
interested in running this race.  I sent away for
an entry form, but I would like some feedback on 
the course, its wherabouts, time, etc. (asap).

Thanks to all you respond.
--sas
From: robertson@pasadena-dc.bofa.com
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Narrow width running shoes?
Date: 22 Jan 93 11:31:10 PDT
Organization: Bank America Systems Engineering, Pasadena, CA

I'm new to this group, so maybe this is a FAQ.

I have narrow feet.  Can I buy running shoes in a narrow width?  Are there
stores in the Southern California area that sell them?
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: javier@cs.toronto.edu (Javier Pinto)
Subject: Re: Distinctions Please
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:36:43 GMT

mvm@caesun6.epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney) writes:

>Runners wear shorts or tights.  Joggers wear sweats.

>Runners wear a watch.  Joggers wear a Walkman.

>Runners log miles.  Joggers log hours.

>Joggers jog for health.  Runners are usually injured.

THis is hilarious!

It reminded me of a conversation I had with my advisor not too long ago. 
When told him that I had gone running that morning he replied: 'you mean,
you went jogging'. This is not funny, I know, but it left me preplexed.

Javier.

Newsgroups: rec.running
From: curt@mcm.hp.com (Curt Simkins)
Subject: Racewalking??
Organization: HP Cardiology Business Unit -  McMinville OR
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:52:01 GMT

I hope that this post is in the appropriate spot, so here goes.
I would be very interested in hearing if any of you folks
out there have had experiences with racewalking.

I would like to hear about proper technique and form, types of
training, distances that can be raced, etc.

Also if there are any good books available I would like to hear
about those also.

Thanks ahead,
Curt
curt@mcm.hp.com

Newsgroups: rec.running
From: jcs@syzygy.hr.att.com (John C. Schwebel)
Subject: Re: Park Barner
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:09:26 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.160420.108751@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, ejk0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (EDWIN J. KAY) writes:
|> I think Park pretty much has dropped out of ultra-marathoning.  I used to
|> direct a local 50 miler which he often ran.  I think the last one he ran was
|> about four years ago ...

Very interesting story.
I remember reading about Park Barner in the 70's also.
Questions to anyone:
  How old is he now?
  Does he still run at all?

Thanks
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: caracuzz@convex.com (Terry Caracuzzo)
Subject: knee problem
Summary: knee problem
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:54:49 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Keywords: knee plica meniscus
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Has anyone had "plica syndrome" in a knee, resulting in a damaged meniscus?
The plica syndrome is a ligament becoming disattached from the inner knee
(in my case), sort of like a rubber band that binds when the knee is flexed.
This has gone away from not running for a while, but i think the cushioning
cartilage there (meniscus) has been damaged.  I have not had an MRI as of yet.
I am wondering if this is something that will heal on its own.


Thank you very much,
  Terry Caracuzzo
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: hemiola@leland.Stanford.EDU (e. shen)
Subject: Re: Why are Kenyans so fast (rebutal)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 08:19:06 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.052826.25334@math.ucla.edu> getachew@yosemite.math.ucla.edu (getachew hagos) writes:
>actually disappointed no body mentioned about us. At least I remember one 
>episode where Ethiopians and Kenyans compete (I think it was in Kenya)
>all 1st, 2nd and 3rd ranks were taken by Ethiopians. But that does not mean 
>that the Kenyans are not good and I don't mean that either, I am saying 
>Ethiopians are very good too. I hope you all remember the bare feet Marathon
>winner 'Abebe Bekila' of Ethiopia. Did You?

Yes, wonderful!

>I love Ethiopia!!!
>Have a good day.

Plus, now, GIRLS.  Like Derartu Tulu.


e.
From: gkc@freddie.udev.cdc.com (gordon k chace x2367)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Minimum age for Marathon?
Date: 25 Jan 93 14:25:55 GMT

In the 1985 Twin Cities Marathon, I found at about 16 miles there was a kid
beside me who looked about 8 to 10 years old.  He was wearing a number,
so I doubt that he was just a jump-in at that point of the course.  I'm
happy to report that I got ahead of him before losing sight.  This, BTW, was
at middle-of-pack pacing.

The '85 TCM also had a dog (golden retriever or somesuch) which was probably
less than teen-age :-)  I'm happy to report I also out-ran the dog, but
must confess that was because the dog's owner was having a bad day.  In
the '84 Winter Carnival Half, this same dog and owner had trounced me.

At the other extreme, in the '87 TCM, I had a kinda bad day, and got
beat by an 80-year-old.  <blush>  (human, not dog)

Disclaimer: I have no idea whether young/old marathoning is medically OK.
I don't even know if prime-of-life marathoning is OK!  Just reporting...

-- 
Gordon K. Chace                                 voice (612) 482-6524
Control Data Systems, Inc.                      fax   (612) 482-2791
4201 N. Lexington, Arden Hills, MN, USA 55126   email gordon.chace@cdc.com
RISC: Really Invented on the Sixty-six-hundred by CDC
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: aa658@Freenet.carleton.ca (Bill Wendt)
Subject: Races in Northern NY?
Organization: National Capital Freenet, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 22:01:51 GMT


If anyone has any information about races in Northern New York
(Syracuse, Watertown etc.) over the next few months, I would
appreciate a message here (or e-mail to bill.wendt@synapse.org).
Many thanks.
-- 
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
From: gkc@freddie.udev.cdc.com (gordon k chace x2367)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Distinctions Please
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:55:41 GMT

Runners wear hats.  Joggers wear sweatbands.  Those bare-headed people
are walkers.

-- 
Gordon K. Chace                                 voice (612) 482-6524
Control Data Systems, Inc.                      fax   (612) 482-2791
4201 N. Lexington, Arden Hills, MN, USA 55126   email gordon.chace@cdc.com
RISC: Really Invented on the Sixty-six-hundred by CDC
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: tordm@vand (Tord G.M. Malmgren)
Subject: Re: Why are Kenyans so fast (rebutal)
Reply-To: TordM@VanA.PhySto.SE
Organization: Department of Physics, University of Stockholm -- Sweden
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:05:16 GMT

In article <1k0strINNnq7@savoy.cc.williams.edu>, Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu writes:

>	No one has yet replied to my question about the physical 
>benefits of spending childhood barefoot.  Am I completely off the
>wall?

 okay, I'll bite.. again...
 it is believed that if you're very active when you're a little kid your
body will get more tolerant to stress. The kids in Kenya run all their life
from they're small kids, so their bodies are very well adapted to stress,
and therefore they can train harder, while most people in the western world
sit and get weak, go everywhere by car, and so on...
 As for running bare-foot, I've only read an article in Runner's World that
it's bad for your feet to run with shoes... 




---------------+--------------------------------+----------------------------
 Tord Malmgren | InterNet: TordM@VanA.PhySto.SE | These opinions are my OWN,
               | BITNet  : TordM@SESUF51        | and NOT of this department!
---------------+--------------------------------+----------------------------
 Department of Physics, University of Stockholm -- Sweden (Northern Europe)
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: oysteing@garm.idt.unit.no (Oystein Groevlen)
Subject: Re: Why are Kenyans so fast and US distance runners so slow?
Organization: Div. of CS & Telematics, Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: 23 Jan 93 11:30:55

In article <1jp38rINN9fb@savoy.cc.williams.edu> Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu writes:
>	   (1) The differences cannot be primarily genetic since Kenyans
>   from many different tribes have excelled internationally.  Richard Chelimo
>   is no more closely related to Paul Ereng or Yobes Ondieki than he is 
>   to most American blacks.

I  don't really  follow  this. Did not most American slaves  come from
Western  Africa? This is  like saying  that I  am  not  more genetical
related to a Swede than to a Greek.

I  have often wondered if it is only a  coincidence that while Eastern
Africans  are  good at  long  distances,  both  Western  Africans  and
American Blacks are good at shorter distances.  I am not claiming that
the reason for this  is genetic. It could also be cultural reasons for
this.


--
Oystein Groevlen 
Division of Computer Systems and Telematics
The Norwegian Institute of Technology
The University of Trondheim
Email: oysteing@idt.unit.no
From: tordm@vand (Tord G.M. Malmgren)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Why are Kenyans so fast and US distance runners so slow?
Date: 23 Jan 93 11:36:10 GMT
Reply-To: TordM@VanA.PhySto.SE
Organization: Department of Physics, University of Stockholm -- Sweden

In article <OYSTEING.93Jan23113055@garm.idt.unit.no>, oysteing@garm.idt.unit.no (Oystein Groevlen) writes:

>>	   (1) The differences cannot be primarily genetic since Kenyans
>>   from many different tribes have excelled internationally.  Richard Chelimo
>>   is no more closely related to Paul Ereng or Yobes Ondieki than he is 
>>   to most American blacks.

>I  have often wondered if it is only a  coincidence that while Eastern
>Africans  are  good at  long  distances,  both  Western  Africans  and
>American Blacks are good at shorter distances.  I am not claiming that
>the reason for this  is genetic. It could also be cultural reasons for
>this.

 I believe in the "tradition".. for example, in Finland there's a tradition
to be best at Javelin, and it gets most attention, most athletes and so on.
As it is tradition in Kenya to run long distances, as it is tradition in
the US for blacks to train sprint. Swedish tradition is hockey. Norway has
nordic skiing. These are just examples, I know some nations are best at more
than sport..
 I think blaming the fact that some nation is outstanding in some event on
genetics is to stick your head into the ground..




---------------+--------------------------------+----------------------------
 Tord Malmgren | InterNet: TordM@VanA.PhySto.SE | These opinions are my OWN,
               | BITNet  : TordM@SESUF51        | and NOT of this department!
---------------+--------------------------------+----------------------------
 Department of Physics, University of Stockholm -- Sweden (Northern Europe)
From: cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Plantar Facitis (?sp)
Date: 26 Jan 93 00:04:13 GMT
Organization: Eastern Illinois University

In article <1993Jan25.022708.19716@dickens.com> lpc@dickens.com (Luis P Caamano) writes:
[wrt PF]
>And more than that will produce a heel spur which is so painful you
>can hardly walk and more than often requires surgery.  What happens is
>that the heel bone grows in the direction of the muscle to try to help
>(I'd say), but the spur will pinch your skin and the fat sac that
>protects the bone. 

    Heel spurs are the result of calcification of bleeding around the
injured part of the fasica.
-- 
   ******************************************************************
     Howard Black                             cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu
     Department of Chemistry                  Eastern Illinois Univ.
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Garry Bjorklund HS Mile
From: wlange@eis.calstate.edu (Walter C. Lange)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:33:54 GMT
Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services

Actually, Liquori did it the year after Danielson.
Newsgroups: rec.running