HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rcanders@nyx.cs.du.edu (Rod Anderson)
Subject: Re: Punishment for the Driver!
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 00:49:18 GMT

In article <1jmi26INNt1a@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> kipper@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Kip Ingram) writes:
>I agree totally that this driver should be thoroughly punished, and that 
>drivers in general should be penalized more heavily for not respecting the 
>rights of cyclists.  However, there's an old saw that says there's two sides
>to every story, so let's look for the other one.
>
>First off, *nothing* excuses putting someone's life in danger; that's not the
>point I'm trying to make.  I'm looking at motivations here.  In the fast-paced
>society in which we live, motorists are nearly always in a hurry.  Not the way
>I like to live my life, but true.  When they are suddenly blocked by a bike
>moving at 15 mph, it's not hard to see how they might get irate.  
>

If you are talking about the California "accident" they were off of the
roadway on a bicycle sidepath.  The speed limit was 35.  If this is not a
safe place to ride what is ?

>The world is not populated by saints, who get irate and still do the right
>thing.  All too many motorists succumb to their baser emotions and take it out
>on the biker.  After all, that damn bike shouldn't be on the road, right?
>
>I have to ask whether it really makes sense for us to mix on one roadway
>vehicles that average 50 mph with vehicles that average 20, or vehicles with
>the acceleration power of cars with vehicles with the lower acceleration power
>of bikes.  We're *creating* a situation that cannot fail to become nasty, and
>we bikers are on the losing end by about 3000 pounds.
>
>The real solution here is bike lanes and bike paths.  One would think that in
>this age of environmental awareness that at the very least a good bike *lane*
>that would take the bikes out of the traffic would be feasible in most places,
>and certainly where any new roads are going in.
>

--
Rod Anderson  N0NZO                             rcanders@nyx.cs.du.edu
Boulder, CO                                     packet N0NZO @ W0LJF
A life consisting exclusively of things that are Good For You is bad for you.
                                                          Kelvin Throop
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Life Flite Episode
Keywords: Specialized,MTB,M2,Helmet,Glasses
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 03:15:35 GMT

In article <1jkr64INN1a6@fido.asd.sgi.com> amc@crash.wpd.sgi.com (Allan McNaughton) writes:
>I 
>know that the Ritchey P-XX series and Bontrager Race Lite are not meant for
>heavy riders and have a history of failures (those are both cro-mo bikes and
>are not meant for people > 180lbs).

I have seen plenty of Ritchey failures. Most dealers won't sell you
a P-23 if you look heavy or strong.

Bontrager, on the other hand, tells me that he has had _two_ failures in
his _history_. One from the bike crate being put through a trash compactor
(the shop help didn't look inside and thought the box too light to not be
empty). And the other from someone that drove off a road into a cement culvert.

Bontrager covered both cases (despite they neither being covered by the
warranty) because he wanted to get the frames back and see how they'd failed.

Someone else here claimed that they had seen failed Bontragers. That may
be but they weren't reported to Bontrager or returned.

Keith's personal bike is pretty beat up and Jensen Hastings, his shop foreman
and I road over Spooner Pass from Tahoe to Carson City and back. Me on
my MB-2 and he on Keith's bike. Jensen weighs about 180 and rides hard.
We were carrying lots of water and food and tools. No problems with that
old beat up Bontrager and I watched it closely. With the original Rockshox
on it it was still lighter than my MB-2. I'd give it 5 stars out of 5.
From: thelma@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Thelma Lubkin)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: A Quick Survey
Date: 23 Jan 1993 00:06:24 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: uk
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

David R Marsh CS91 (dmarsh@cs.strath.ac.uk) wrote:
: Do you cycle on roads at all?                                        YES***
: Do you cycle on major roads at all?                                  YES***
: What do you think of the attitude of car (bus etc) drivers?        SCARY***
: Do you think cyclists get enough respect?  FROM A FEW DRIVERS,       YES***
: Do you feel safe cycling on roads?                             SOMETIMES***
: Do you think enough is done to improve conditions for cyclists? **NOTHING**
:and how do you think this should be done (cycleways, cycle lanes, or what)?
                                       DO MORE TO KEEP GLASS OFF THE ROADS***
: What is your normal mode of transport?                  BICYCLE AND FOOT***
: How do you transport your bike (when not actually cycling!)?
                            IN SOMEONE ELSE'S CAR: I DON'T OWN OR DRIVE ONE***
: Are you a member of a cycle club or campaign group?                   YES***
: What do you think of current transport policy?                   DEAD END***
: Do you think that bike carriage on trains is important?               YES***
: What are the main uses of your bike?                       TRANSPORTATION***
: What sort of bike(s) do you have (mountain bike, recumbent, racer etc)?
             MIXTE FRAME; SINGLE SPEED ROAD BIKE; 2 MOULTONS (THE OLD ONES)***
                                                                TWO TANDEMS***
: What do you think of law-breaking cyclists?                   WHICH LAWS?***
: (And I suppose I have to ask) do you wear a helmet?                    NO***

                 --Thelma
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: lind0014@student.tc.umn.edu ()
Subject: Re: Recumbents
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:06:21 GMT

In article <cma851.727585632@huxley> cma851@huxley.anu.edu.au (Brenton LeMesurier) writes:
>
>    There is a confusion here between force and work: since
>
>work= force times "speed component in the direction of the force",
>the legs can generate the force necessary to hold the body up against
>gravity without doing any mechanical work.
>
Actually this is Power (work/time).  Work is the force times the distance
travelled.  

Chris Lindensmith
lind0014@student.tc.umn.edu
University of Minnesota
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.misc:2202 uk.transport:342
From: steve@acorn.co.uk (Steve "daffy" Hunt)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc,uk.transport
Subject: Re: A Quick Survey
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:10:45 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.misc,uk.transport
Distribution: uk
Organization: Acorn Computers Limited, Cambridge, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Ian G Batten (igb@fulcrum.co.uk) wrote:
: Is it?  Crossing double white lines is, as I understand, a Highway Code
: transgression.  If you are involved in an accident whilst doing it, it
: can be held against you.  Otherwise it's not of itself an offence.
: Someone will, no doubt, correct me if I'm wrong.

I think it is an offence in itself to cross the double while lines.  A
friend of mine was booked (and got points on her license) for crossing
them on her motorcycle.

-- 
				Steve Hunt	steve@acorn.co.uk
From: sham@cs.arizona.edu (Shamim Zvonko Mohamed)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Punishment for the Driver!
Date: 22 Jan 93 17:58:50 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1jmi26INNt1a@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> kipper@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Kip Ingram) writes:
>In the fast-paced
>society in which we live, motorists are nearly always in a hurry.  Not the way
>I like to live my life, but true.  When they are suddenly blocked by a bike
>moving at 15 mph, it's not hard to see how they might get irate.  

Somehow I don't think these guys were doing 15mph. Besides, they were riding in
a bike lane - something you seem to think highly of.

>The real solution here is bike lanes and bike paths.  One would think that in
>this age of environmental awareness that at the very least a good bike *lane*
>that would take the bikes out of the traffic

Look, I don't WANT to be taken out of the traffic flow! I want the motorists
to be aware of me, as vehicle, instead of as something peripheral, off to
one side! I have been hit in traffic three times; all of those times I was
in a fucking bike lane. While I can't be sure that the bozos would have seen
me had there not been a bike lane, I strongly suspect that it would have
been so.

Come to Tucson. It's been raining quite a bit over the last couple of
months, and all the goddamn bike lanes are filled with sand and other
debris, resulting effectively in a narrowing of the street. If they hadn't
painted that line, motorists would use that part of the road, cleaning off
the rubbish.

>I just don't
>ride my bike in heavy traffic areas; I get to the well-shouldered highway just
>as quickly as I can and do my training.

That's just fine, if you're out for a joy-ride (pardon me, "training"); but
some of us use the bicycle as a means of transportation also. If I have to
go from point A to point B, I may not have this choice. I'm not trying to
make some bloody political point. Forget bike lanes; give us wider streets
and educated motorists.

And as for homicidal maniacs like this woman, there's nothing you can do
about them. So forget the murderers, just Ride Sane.

-s
--
Henri Desgrange, 1902: "Variable gears are only for people over forty-five.
Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles rather than by the
artifice of a derailleur? We are getting soft. Come on, fellows. Let's say that
the test was a fine demonstration---for our grandparents! As for me, give me a
fixed gear!"

  Shamim Mohamed / {uunet,noao,cmcl2..}!arizona!shamim / shamim@cs.arizona.edu
   Member of the League for Programming Freedom - write to lpf@uunet.uu.net
From: jrdodd@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Riding on (and in) melting tar.
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:17:36 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <DODD.93Jan24040525@mycenae.cchem.berkeley.edu>, dodd@mycenae.cchem.berkeley.edu (Lawrence R. Dodd) writes:
> 
> to your bike or to the road?  :-)
> 
> Larry Dodd

I was talking about tar sticking to the bike!

But while I'm back,  here's a story somehow related...

A bunch of us were on a training ride when we encountered a stretch of the road
being re-sealed (this is NZ,  all the smooth roads are getting re-sealed with
really rough chip,  even by our standards).  There was a truck pouring tar onto
the middle of the road,  and one of the workmen pointed for us to ride on the
freshly sealed right (contrary to our normal left remember).  The left hand
side however was still smooth and ok to ride on,  so one of the smart alecs in
the bunch decided to go that way anyway.  He thought he was pretty smart,
flying away past we others working on all the loose chips,  till he went past
the tar-truck - just as a big gust of wind splattered wet tar all over his
Cannondale,  Oakleys and Pearl clothing!  All he needed after that were a few
feathers.

Jonathan Dodd.
From: thelma@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Thelma Lubkin)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Bike-only Households
Date: 23 Jan 1993 14:38:55 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Phillip D. Russell (flip@sage.cc.purdue.edu) wrote:

: I don't own a car!. I commute everywhere by bike. The cyclists who go
: out and joy-ride (oops, training) just can't understand why I go through
: parts so fast. Try riding everyday in all kinds of weather and you'll
: see some heavy wear that the joy-riders will never see.

    I'm interested in the transport solutions of bike-only households.
  My husband and I both bike to work (he doesn't count: he goes all of 5
  blocks); we use our tandem w/ panniers and a cardboard box on top of
  them, along with my free arms, for grocery shopping; we have 2 old style
  Moultons with the serious carriers for carrying truly heavy things
  (my husband once carted home a steel, 4-drawer filing cabinet on the back
  of one of them, using a lawn mower w/o its handle to balance the weight
  in the front.)
     Our most serious problem is parking: we won't take a bicycle unless
  there's a reasonably safe place to park it, which means that we walk to
  many events like concerts.
      I'm not an all the time rider either: I can't handle snow, and I won't
  start out in heavy rain, so the fact that everyone else has a car is very
  helpful:  I've found people quite willing to cart me, and often my bike too,
  home.
                        --thelma
: Flip

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.rides
From: Orakel@sarpih.no (Jens Kr. Kirkeb)
Subject: Ultimate workout
Organization: stfold Ingenirhyskole
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:07:56 GMT

Earlier this winter, I tried some off-road biking in deep snow.  This seemed 
allmost impossible, but unwilling to give up, I welded a frame that could 
use the wheels from a 50cc motorcycle (quite a lot fatter than the fattest 
MTB fatties I have seen..). Yesterday, I tried the beast, and it rode quite 
smoothly on fairly deep snow (approx 1 -1.5 feet).  Yet; I was never off my 
granny chainring once, and got totally exhausted from a three mile ride....

Anyway, I saw places I would never have seen in winter gown without my 
wierd beast, and I know I can ride off tracks if I wish.

BTW: In biking magazines I see comments on restrictions on Mountain 
Biking.  What are these, and how do they affect off-trail Biking?

In Norway there are no restrictions on non-motorized travel, and even 
private property is open to the public.  It does not seem to hurt anybody... 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.rides
From: drabik@eecom.gatech.edu (Timothy J. Drabik)
Subject: Re: Switzerland: Info needed/am I bonkers?
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 12:50:48 GMT

In article <johnr.727583666@pongo.kowari.cpsg.com.au> johnr@kowari.cpsg.com.au (John Reid) writes:
><DNASTASZ@ESOC.BITNET> writes:
>
>>Good Evening,
>>I'm hoping to take some time off in Late May/Early June to "do some hills".
>>I was considering starting from Darmstadt, heading off in the general
>>direction of Strasbourg, doing a few hills West of ColMar/Mulhouse,
>>and then doing some big hills in Switzerland (Susten Pass, Furka Pass,
>>Grimsel Pass, Simplon Pass, Passo del Bernina, Fluel Pass), before

The above are absolutely spectacular.  In particular, in the vicinity
of Sta. Maria im Muestair, things are very quiet and peaceful.  Also,
over Simplon and east down the Maggiore valley to Ascona is enough
to make you cry.

>>tootling-off back to Germany. The whole lot (I guess) would be in the
>>region of 1700 - 2000 km.
>
>>A few VERY, VERY basic questions:
>>1) Is the weather going to piss-down on me during that time of year?

I've never toured there that time of year.  I found BEAUTIFUL weather
on 3 such trips, always in late August and September.

>>2) Is this the right time of the year to get the most out of it?

See above.

>>3) Are the Passes likely to be open after 25th May?

Don't know.

>>4) Any restrictions on cyclists with respect to these Passes?
>>5) A couple of these passes are around 2400m/7800ft - any idea
>>   if altitude will start to be a major factor?

I have climbed the Stelvio, 2700m, and didn't notice anything.  This
is not a very great altitude.

>>6) I hope to take 25 days off - I estimate I'll spend 17-20 days
>>   cycling.Hopefully averaging 100km a day: (120km on the flattish bits,
>>   and more like 80km a day on the pointy bits :-)
>>   - is this realistic or a bit whimpy?

Sounds pretty good.  I crossed Ofen and Fluela on one day.  It's not
so bad.

>>7) How many stretches over 15% gradient can I expect?

There aren't many in the western alps if you stay off the absolutely
narrowest roads.  One notable exception, the pass near Weissenstein
between Bern and Basel: 22%!

>>   - Am I likely to end up despairing with a 39/28 lowest gear?

I did my first such tour with a 39/32, and did OK.  If you use 39/28, you
must be a real pusher.

Sounds like a wonderful trip.  Have fun!

		Tim
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.rides
From: shenry@cs.rice.edu (Sam Henry)
Subject: Re: Minor injury on a DC-Baltimore-DC trip
Organization: Rice University, Houston
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:59:04 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.130844.1@gallua> CADS_COLE@GALLUA.BITNET (Kevin
Cole; Washington DC) moans: 

>... I decided to go from Washington, D.C. to Baltimore, MD and back,
>this past weekend.  ... 

>Two fingers on my right hand have been kind of numb since Saturday 
>night.  I assume some nerves either in my wrist or hand took a
>beating.  I'm riding a Miyata Quick-Cross hybrid, with straight
>handlebars.  

This is probably the result of too few hand positions, forcing you to
put excessive pressure on the nerves in the hand.  Common for many
folks on long trips with straight bars or who don't change hand
positions often enough.

>...  I still want to avoid drop bars if possible.) 

I'm not sure I understand this (although it is my theory that the
demise of the touring bike is because there are a lot of folks afraid
of or avoiding drop bars for some reason).  Drop bars offer the most
variety of hand positions, some of which are very useful also for
getting out of the wind better.  Like you needed to on your ride
south.

Straight bars place the elbows and wrists at odd angles for extended
riding. 

>I'll probably be told not to ride for a few weeks, 

This is probably an over-use injury and rest will help.  But you can
also rest it by doing a little lighter regimen on the bike and finding
a variety of hand positions.  One that might help is to place the
thumb on top of the handle bars.

>take lots of pills ...

well, a little extra strength tylenol or ibuprofin might help to
releive the pain and prevent inflamation.  A lot of heat will help,
too.  However, cold should be used immediately after exercise (a bag
of cold peas is great--conforms easily to the shape of the body part
being iced and can be refrozen).


-- 
sam henry <shenry@rice.edu>
Wanna ride?
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.rides
From: mckay@VFL.Paramax.COM (Donald P McKay)
Subject:  INQUIRY: Tuscon and San Antonio Rides
Reply-To: mckay@vfl.paramax.com
Organization: Paramax Systems Corporation, Paoli, PA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:10:05 GMT

I'll be taking a trip to the southwest in the last week in February.
Looking for information about, or pointers to wehre I can get info
about, easy 1/2 day to full day loops at interesting locations nearby to 
Tuscon, Az or San Antonio, TX.

I prefer touring routes, but willing to try trails.  This would be my first
time trail/mountain biking.  Being from the east coast, I would like to see 
different terrain and sites.  Eg, what about some of the desert areas around 
Tuscon...are there trails which are maintained so as to minimize environmental
disturbance?

Any info appreciated including about what kind of weather to typically
expect February 20-February 28.

Please reply via email....thanks!

Don McKay

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.rides
From: canderso@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chuck Anderson)
Subject: Re: Highway #1 ride San Francisco/Seattle
Reply-To: canderso@nyx.UUCP (Chuck Anderson)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 93 01:27:17 GMT

> MOD31490@ipc1.rrzn.uni-hannover.de writes:
>Hi there,
>we are planning a tour on Highway #1 from San Francisco to Seattle.
>....we are looking for all kind of helpful information. (Like: weather 
conditions in summer, accomodation, equipment etc...)

What month (later in the summer should be drier)?

Is it possible for you to go from Seattle to San Francisco
(south) instead of San Francisco to Seattle (north)?  The winds and road 
conditions (the seaward side road shoulder) are much more favorable.  I 
repeat, MUCH more favorable.

Accomodations are simple.  The hiker and biker areas in the campgrounds
are cheap, clean, quiet (away from the camper vans), and allow you the use 
of hot showers, WC, picnic table and fire pit.  If you must, motels are
plentiful along the way.

There is no reason to worry about food and water, either.  There are plenty
of shops and restaurants along the way.

--
  *************************************************************************
     Chuck Anderson                uucp    :         uunet!nyx!canderso
     Boulder, Co. (303) 494-6278   internet:         canderso@nyx.cs.du.edu
  *************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.rides
From: MOD31490@ipc1.rrzn.uni-hannover.de (Christian Hornhardt, Modula)
Subject: Highway #1 ride San Francisco/Seattle
Reply-To: MOD31490@ipc1.rrzn.uni-hannover.de
Organization: RVS, Universitaet Hannover, Germany
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 11:47:52 GMT

Hi there,
we are planning a tour on Highway #1 from San Francisco to Seattle. Since we don`t
know anybody who drove that tour before, or who lives in the western United States,
we are looking for all kind of helpful information. (Like: weather conditions in summer, accomodation, equipment etc...)
 
Thank so far...
Horni, Jojo, Andy.


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.rides
From: iba@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Wayne Iba)
Subject: Re: RIDE STORY: January Century (Two Loops Around the South Bay)
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:53:00 GMT

bushnell@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (William D. Bushnell) writes:

[Three cyclists cross the Dumbarton bridge twice without flats]

This is nothing short of miraculous -- I'm amazed.

(Thanks for the report btw)
--wayne
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.rides
From: markm@iris.polymer.uakron.edu (Mark Alan Matties)
Subject: Re: Ultimate workout
Organization: Institute of Polymer Science, University of Akron
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 07:48:12 GMT

>smoothly on fairly deep snow (approx 1 -1.5 feet).
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

wow! i'm envious! we never have that much snow on the ground here.
i've begun to enjoy cycling in the snow, especially as it's coming down.
but, unfortunately, it's more like 1-1.5 inches. i find it's great for
balance training since it's usually so slick that i slide all over
the place. needless to say, i do this on (relatively) deserted side streets.

msquared

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
mark alan matties			u of akron
markm@iris.polymer.uakron.edu		dept of polymer science
"aoibheann beatha an scola/ire"		akron, ohio, usa
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.rides
From: skjohn01@nx35.mik.uky.edu (stephen k johnson)
Subject:  Cycling tours in France
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:05:50 GMT


Hello Netters,
	I'm looking for good summer European cycling tours.I just back  
from France about 2 days ago and want to go back this summer.If you know  
of any reliable tour companies drop me a line or post here.Thanks.

					Stephen Kelly Johnson

---------------------
Stephen Kelly Johnson
SKJOHN01@MIK.UKY.EDU
---------------------
From: seibel@bbn.com (Fred Seibel)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.rides
Subject: Riding on Interstates
Date: 28 Jan 93 22:52:46 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

We are planning a bike ride through Southern Ca and Az etc.  It appears that
from maps with the resolution of a Rand McNally road atlas that there are
stretches of Interstate connecting points we would like to ride between, with
no reasonable alternate routes.  I seem to remember that some years ago I saw
signs that said that in such cases it was legal to ride on these stretches.

Can anyone tell me if this is still true?

Thanks
Fred

email:  seibel@bbn.com               BBN Systems & Technologies
Voice:  617-873-2445                 10 Moulton St.
Fax:    617-873-3776                 Cambridge, MA 02138
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.rides