HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
X-Envelope-to: ALLMUSIC@AUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"ALLMUSIC@AUVM.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 09:44:00 GMT
From:         "OUT,
              OUT - YOU'LL NOT FEEL THE FALL-OUT..." <OLIVOTTO@ITNCISCA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Nightclubs and Bonehead Neighbors

>From: Walter Keller <WK7@CORNELLC.BITNET>
>Subject: Nightclubs and Bonehead Neighbors

>Now my point is this - what in hell do you expect when you move into a bar-
>fested neighborhood??A week from now the students themselves will make more
>noise than we did. And if you are a club of long standing and have live bands
>often how the hell can the cops permit one little nimrod disrupt a whole lot
>of other people's evenings, and hurt the business too. Isn't this what zoning
>permits and the like are all about?? Is this shit legal do you think, or did
>the cops just not know themselves, and figured what the f**k shut it down -'it
>sounds like low down subversive electric guitar music to me, clem'. I'm obvious
>ly pissed at the cops, but also at the manager/musician's lack of balls. And
>yes, I've been to jail before, but not for playing the blues.

        Walter, I hope you will kill me for my reply :), but I think that this
is mostly a legal problem. I have no idea what the law is over there, but here
in Italy things are (for once!) quite clear. Let's put aside outdoor venues for
a while.
        In Italy, if one owns a pub, club, whatever, and wants to have bands
playing, he must first get a license. It's very easy: he declares he want to
do this and that, a couple of guys dressed in black :) go to his venue, try
to check if it's safe (for the audience I mean -- fire exits and all that),
and then say OK.
        There is a limit of decibels imposed by the law. It's quite high,
about 100 dB (!) for indoor venues. There is a time limit too: the owner
can do more or less what he likes before, say, midnight. This depends a lot
on the area (the venue may be near a hospital or in an open field). At that
point, until he respects the rules, none can touch him. Neighbours can call
the police at will, and the cops may come too, but there's nothing they can
do to stop a concert because of the noise.
        In certain cases, it may be annoying, and so all the people can do
is try to have the guy's license changed or stopped. Not so easy, usually.
        I personally think this is a good compromise.
        On the ethic side, the neighbours who called in were absolutely silly
in my opinion... it's a nice show of narrow-mindedness, more or less like if
I stopped you walking on the street and told you "well, you change your side
please, 'cos I was here before and you're breathing my own air".
        As a cynical comment, I believe in passive resistance. Had I been on
stage, I would have said: "well, we won't stop -- we're going to play a famous
piece called 4'33" from a certain John Cage who died just yesterday, in his
honour". And, of course, let the people go wild. I would have liked to see
the cops handling some 100 or more youngs screaming wildly :)...

        Ciao, Marco
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 07:47:04 CDT
From:         "Leonard Watkins" <ISTS024@UABDPO.BITNET>
Subject:      WHERE y'ALL AT

I've not got any mail from allmusic when it does come around would
somone explain to me why the "net-gods" or those who think they are
keep complaining about one line post....etc. I relativly new to this
so if i'm not following proper procedures please let me know and tell
me why they're not proper, and i'll make adjustments i surely do not
ever want to cause anyone problems Unles of course it's all in fun.
thanks L. watkins (king of the one-line)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: ALLMUSIC@AUVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"ALLMUSIC@AUVM.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 09:54:00 GMT
From:         "OUT,
              OUT - YOU'LL NOT FEEL THE FALL-OUT..." <OLIVOTTO@ITNCISCA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: back to music

Mike Masuda <MASUDA@SJSUVM1.BITNET> asks:

>I thrive on stuff like this.  Does anyone else have any cool tricks to reveal?

        Yes, one - but this may make you all laugh :)...
        I read a very interesting interview with Tony Levin during the weekend.
The interviewer asked him to reveal some of his tricks -- how he manages to get
those sounds, and so on.
        I assume you're more or less acquainted with the wonderful damped bass
intro to "Don't Give Up" on Peter Gabriel's "So"... well, I have been trying
to obtain that kind of sound for the last N years, but after reading the inter-
view I have to admit my defeat. Tony said that the sound came out by chance,
since he had a 2-months baby at the time and he found napkins everywhere. One
of them slid under the strings of his Fender Precision right near the bridge,
and so he found himself playing for fun with highly damped strings. Peter Ga-
briel liked the sound so much that he wanted to record it for "Don't Give Up".
        Tony also said that he had a bass with a custom-made damper for the
tour because he definitely didn't want to show with a napkin under the strings,
and I can believe this!!!

        Ciao, Marco

P.S.: I know it sounds like a joke, but it's what the interview said...
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 09:51:38 EDT
From:         Gary Hanley <ghanley@DG-WEBO.WEBO.DG.COM>
Subject:      Re: Chris Squire - solo LP's
X-To:         ALLMUSIC@AMERICAN.EDU
              Aug 20, 92 8:10 pm

Doug Asked:

>I'm an old Yes fan from way back. Can anybody suggest ways to locate Chris
>Squire's (only?) solo LP "Fish out of Water"? I heard it when I was in high
>school many years ago and loved it. I regret not purchasing it at the time.
>I went to the record store recently under the delusion that I might find it
>in CD form. The Phonolog catalogue did not even list the vinyl version of
>the album. Also, has Squire ever recorded any other solo albums? I would
>appreciate anybody's guidance on this subject.

	Doug, it's available in CD format in Japan, and maybe the UK,
but of course you'll have to import it. If you don't have a way of
importing disks locally, let me know and I'll send you the Internet address
of someone who can get it for you. It is a good disk!

--
Regards,
    Gary Hanley
<ghanley@dg-webo.webo.dg.com>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:23:34 CDT
              <QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET>
From:         "jean kantambu latting" <SOCW9V@UHUPVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      typologies
Comments: To: aa248@yfn.ysu.edu,
              "Qualitative Research for the Human Sciences"
              <QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET>
              21 Aug 1992 16:46:08 -0400 from <aa248@YFN.YSU.EDU>

The replies to my outburst of frustration have been interesting and
helpful.  I want to say that I generally agree with the spirit of those
who spoke against labelling and typologies.  Indeed, boundary definition
is a problem.  Reificiation is another problem--believing that the label
makes the phenomenon 'real.'

Having said that, I was glad to hear from Nicholas who apparently shares
some of my confusion.  Perhaps 'typology' is too strong a word.  How
about a tree diagram?  How about concentric circles?  How about n
dimensions (as suggested by Jim, I think).  And, yes, I liked the
sociological 2-by-2 matrix Yvonna kindly provided because it gave me
something to hang my hat on.  Once I have learned the stuff, then I can
proceed to unlearn it.  But as it stands, reading this list (and some
papers) is like being introduced to calculus before I have mastered
adding and subtraction.

I found a book today by Patton called Qualitative
Evaluation and Research Methods.  In it were three helpful pieces of
information:  (1) Naturalistic inquiry is not a variety of qual
research--it as an underlying characteristic (he called it "theme") of all
qual research--i.e. "non-manipulative, unobtrusive, and noncontrolling;
opennness to what emerges."  (2) Phenomenology has two usages--it can be
(a) a perspective--a philosophical position--or (b) a method that seeks
to understand the experiences of a phenomenon for a group of people.
(3) Heuristics, ethnomethodology, and symbolic interactionism are all
derivatives of phenomenological approaches to qual research.

See what I mean?  I need some way of positioning these various terms to
one another so that they make sense.  I have one other need--to be able
to choose among them for a particular research problem.  I am just
starting to be able to sort them out enough to believe that one day I
can do it with confidence.

Now, some of you may object to Patton's categorizations (that dreaded
word again).  If so, I'd like to hear from you.

Jean
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:54:03 -0400
Reply-To:     aa248@yfn.ysu.edu
              <QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET>
From:         Nicholas Sturm <aa248@YFN.YSU.EDU>
Subject:      RE: once upon a time....

>
>Just say "no" to typologies.  I appreciate your concern Jean; sorting out
...
... but you can't easily sort this all into
>a typology or a schema in which a term even remotely resembles an
>operational definition.  Thinking of terms like constructivism,
>interpretivist, etc. as "sensitizing concepts" (H. Blumer's idea) that sort
>of point you in the general direction seems like a useful approach.
>

  We have the problem abundantly in plant taxonomy.  There the problem of
different meanings for a name of a plant is controlled when relevant by
the expression _sensu_ James & Hardy, say.  May read strangely, but sometimes
it is the only reasonable solution to reducing the confusion.  When the
variances are not too numberous, _sensu_lato_ and _sensu_stricto_ may be
adequate (and in a few case almost conventionalized).

--
Nicholas Sturm, 4037 Ward Beecher, 410 Wick Ave., Youngstown, Ohio 44555
  * aa248@yfn.ysu.edu *
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 12:31:58 CDT
              <QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET>
From:         "TOM GANSER,
              UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN--WHITEWATER" <gansert@UWWVAX.UWW.EDU>
Subject:      Social Organization of Qualitative Researchers
Comments: To: qualrs-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

As Judy Goetz points out, part of the difficulty of any kind of analysis or
history of qualitative research or researchers is deliniating what "qualitative
research" includes--something pretty squishy at best.  For example, I'm on
a bulletin board that focuses on Q-Methodology.  (It's address is
Q-Method@Kentvm.Kent.edu.)  Some die-hard qualitative researchers might view
Q-method (and similar hybrids of qualitative/quantitative approaches) as
third cousins at best--possibly removed--to more traditional qualitative
approaches.

Frustrating as all this might be at times, it does keep things (and US) lively.

Tom Ganser
Univ. of Wisconsin--Whitewater
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by OREGON.UOREGON.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 08:21:00 PDT
              <QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET>
From:         MHORNEY@OREGON.BITNET
Subject:      Realism=Positivism???

Jean Kantambu,

Could you elaborate a little on how you feel that realism equates with
positivism, and idealism with social constructivism as indicated in your
questions to Gary Shank about semiotics? I'm not trying to suggest that
these concepts don't correspond, but am interested in how it is that you
have drawn them together.

Mark Horney
School of Education
University of Oregon
Eugene, OR 97403
mhorney@oregon.uoregon.edu
(503) 346-2679
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 09:26:49 CDT
              <QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET>
From:         "jean kantambu latting" <SOCW9V@UHUPVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      semiotics

Gary, I just finished reading your paper on "Virtues of Educational
Semiotics."  I found it very interesting.  Would you please explain
how semiotics differs from interpretive or symbolic interactionism?
Pls. keep in mind you are speaking to a novice in qual research.

In the paper, you mention that semiotics is a "genuine third
alternative" to realism (which I assume equates to positivism) and
idealism ("where reality is that which we construct with our minds")--
and I assume that idealism as you are defining it equates with
social constructivism.  Yet in reading the rest of the paper, it
sounded very much like interpretive interactionism to me (which is
a variant of social constructionism as I understand it.)

I grant you that I have am still working on the finer distinctions
between these various post-postivivistic approaches.  Hence my question.
Care to explain?

Oh, I am addressing to the net vs. privately because others may
be interested.

Jean
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-To: PO%"QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:02:42 EST
              <QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET>
From:         "Tom Schwandt, 856-8341" <SCHWAND@UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Double postings

Yes, glad you asked.  I'm getting double postings as well.
Tom Schwandt
schwand@ucs.indiana.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1992 07:54:34 +1000
              <QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET>
From:         "Kathy Watson" <kwatson@METZ.UNE.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Double postings
Comments: To: QUALRS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

Yes, I seem to get doubles for many. Hope someone can corrrect this.
kwatson
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1992 12:02:46 -0700
              <QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET>
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was rotha@SFU.CA
From:         Michael_Roth@SFU.CA
Subject:      meaning to whom
Comments: To: QUALRS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

I tend to disagree with Gary that objects, events, etc have an independent
meaning, out there.  I think there are some examples "out there" which
nicely illustrate that.  These go back to the French philosopher Bergson
and the German biologist Uexkuell.  What is the meaning of a tree (let's
say a birch, about 10-15 feet tall), and then take a deer, some crawler,
and a human.  AS a member of the last species, I have a special
relationship, and experience a special sense of beauty when I see one,
neding in the winds of northern Norway, or if I use one to make a pair of
snowshoes as my friend Len taught me.  On the other hand, form the
perspective of the deer, things look different: the young leaves as a nice
spring meal, the bark to grind down the covering of the newly fgorwn
antlers.  And then for the crawler, there is a whole new dimension.  And
then with nothing around, whee is your meaning?

Michael

Wolff-Michael Roth, Ph.D.
Research Methods & Science Education
Faculty of Education
Simon Fraser University
Burnaby, BC, Canada  V5A 1S6
Tel:       (604) 291-3046
FAX:      (604) 291-3203
internet: Michael_Roth@sfu.ca
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1992 13:41:00 CDT
              <QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET>
From:         "tk0jut1@mvs.cso.niu.edu jim thomas" <TK0JUT1@NIU.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: meaning to whom?

Interjection----

I've witnessed Gary Shank in a large grad seminar trying to explain
this stuff. He's a great performer and a great communicator. I
suspect that he could address these issues better in a
conference/f2f format. Why doesn't he try to whip up a
conference bringing the multi-disciplinary folk here together,
have a few sessions/workshops, plan it for spring or fall of '93
at NIU?

jim
From: MMAMBERG@CLARKU.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Subject: Ethnomethodology Conference
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:44:00 GMT
              <QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET"

Hello List-users, I think last night's message didn't get through.  Take 2:
My name is Michelle Mamberg, I'm a 2nd (3rd?) year clinical psych. grad.
student at Clark U., working i on my MA with Bernie Kaplan.  Just wanted to
introduce myself to you all and see if anyone is going to the ethno. conference
over the next four days (Bentley, MA).  I'm interested in meeting people in "the
field" as I wrote an ethnolmethodological study of "opinions" several years
ago for my BA thesis.  I'm thinking of revising it for publication and
would appreciate any suggestions as to what journals might be interested in
such a thing.
        Hope to hear from anyone interested; hoepe this message works!
-- Michelle --  MMAMBERG@CLARKU.BITNET
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: qualrs-l@uga.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"qualrs-l@uga"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 08:42:48 -0800
              <QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET>
From:         JENNINGT@CGSVAX.CLAREMONT.EDU
Subject:      Other qualitative research networks

In a recent message send by Tom Gasner (?) he mentioned that "we are not
alone" and that other networks/bulletin boards such as our exists.  Could
we find out more information about these?  As someone new to this +

I would be very interested in knowing what other resources connections
are available because Qualrs-l has been both helpful and inspiring.

Todd Jennings
JENNINGT@CLARGRAD
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 12:50:29 +1000
              <QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET>
From:         dcunning@METZ.UNE.EDU.AU
Subject:      Re: Realism=Positivism???
Comments: To: "Qualitative Research for the Human Sciences"
              <QUALRS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

As the author of what Shank calls the "deathless" prose that
seems to have caused the problem, let me make some brief
comments.  The way that passage is stated is unfortunate
because it does tend to perpetuate categorical thinking:  something
is either one or the other.  Saying it could be a third only complicates
the matter.  It might be more accurate to say that semiotics can be both
realist and idealist at once, sort of in the way that light can be both
wave
and particle.  So its not a forced choice that one has to make.  But
we're (or at least I'm) not talking about some compromise or middle
ground (like a wavy particle?) between realism and idealism.  I'm saying
the dualism required to even ask the question is not inevitable and
a triadic model is equally defensable.

From memory (as my books and other personal belongings are currently
rotting on a dock in Brisbane), Peirce said the universe is perfused with
signs, if not composed exclusively of signs.  But he also said a sign is
not a sign until it is taken as such.  Yin AND yang.  Wave AND particle.
This is why a tradic model is essential.

This is probably too obtuse to be helpful.  Gary is better at explaining
things.
That's why we write together.......djc

Don Cunningham
Department of Learning, Development & Communication
University of New England
Armidale  2351  NSW
AUSTRALIA

dcunning@metz.une.oz.au
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 09:08:00 CET
              <QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET>
From:         Theo Beekman <SWOKDZ@RULMVS.LEIDENUNIV.NL>
Subject:      Re: availability of list archives

Hello,
The archives are maintained at LISTSERV@UGA. Good luck. Theo
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-To: PO%"QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:21:44 EST
              <QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET>
From:         "Tom Schwandt, 856-8341" <SCHWAND@UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Realism=Positivism???

On jean's point about the distinction between what a semiotician, social
constructionist, or symbolic interactionist does:  May just be that we all
do about the same thing but just think differently about what we are doing.
Tom schwandt
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 10:51:31 -0700
              <QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET>
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was rotha@SFU.CA
From:         Michael_Roth@SFU.CA
Subject:      Re: Distance Learning
Comments: To: "Qualitative Research for the Human Sciences"
              <QUALRS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

>Probably the most experience folks with distance learning are the
>Australians.  I'd check with Queensland.

There is an enormous distance learning program in Newfoundland, Canada.  I
took all many teacher education courses in various modes of interacting
with profs at a distance.  Telecom, video-tapes, correspondence, mini sites
with local instructors, etc, and, I hear by now, several branch campuses
for taking a limited number of courses.  It's Memorial University of
Newfoundland which covers Newfoundland and Labrador.


Wolff-Michael Roth, Ph.D.
Research Methods & Science Education
Faculty of Education
Simon Fraser University
Burnaby, BC, Canada  V5A 1S6
Tel:       (604) 291-3046
FAX:      (604) 291-3203
internet: Michael_Roth@sfu.ca
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 09:45:47 CDT
              <QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET>
From:         John Walsh 312-996-4663 <U33695@UICVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: blue collar PO
              from Peter=Neenan%NetAd%HSRD@HSRD.SOWO.UNC.EDU

My own research is more intensive interviews that PO, so I'll point you
to other works to check into:
Burawoy. Manufacturing Consent. [PO with machinists; also a a replication of
Roy]
Finlay. Work on the Waterfront [PO with longshoremen]
Thomas. Citizenship, Gender and Work [PO with lettuce pickers]
Hope these help.
John Walsh
Sociology
UIC
U33695@UICVM.BITNET
[p.s. This is going to the net because I'm not sure how to decipher your
address.]

> I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who is currently conducting/has
> conducted participatory research in industrial settings with "blue collar"
> workers.  I'm particularly interested in aspects of entree; relations with
> coworkers, supervisors, management; extent to which research role was explicit
> or hidden; and difficulties encountered (if any) as an academic in such
> settings.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Peter A. Neenan, Ph.D.
> School of Social Work
> University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
> CB#3570
> Chapel Hill, NC 27599-3570
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU