From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: suggested weapons (was: Killing burglars.)
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:33:41 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA


CORRECTION OF SOME SERIOUS WRONG INFO FOLLOWS, PLEASE READ:

In article <27AUG199213073583@utkvx2.utk.edu> drevik@utkvx2.utk.edu (Drevik, Steve) writes:
>
>My reccomendation for the truly inexperienced is a shotgun.  Why?
>
>(1) It takes little training to load, holds about 7 shells, more than enough
>to do the job.

ANY gun takes some serious training.  Most pump shotguns have a slide
interlock that prevents racking the slide (and putting the first round
in the chamber) if the trigger has not been pulled after the last time
the slide was racked (i.e. if it was put away cocked, but not loaded,
when you stuff some rounds in the magazine you will have the odd
experience of not being able to chamber a round until you press the
magic button...)  If you havn't had some serious training time, 
remembering, finding, and using that button will NOT come easy especially
when you are under stress!

>(2) It takes NO training to hit someone in close quarters.  Just aim and
>shoot.  Also very nice when you can't see your target very well (in
>the dark.. if you're in the same neighborhood, you'll hit him).

COMPLETELY FALSE!  At in-house ranges the shot from a shotgun acts
as a single mass of about 1 inch diameter.  You MUST aim it with 
the same degree of precision as any other firearm.  It WILL take
some training for a novice (never used guns) to do this quickly.

If you can't see your target very well YOU SHOULD NOT FIRE!  #1 rule:
IF YOU CAN'T IDENTIFY THE TARGET, DON'T SHOOT IT.  Your family and
friends and neighbors and local police and ... will all appreciate it
if you identify them in time to not shoot them.  There have been
many cases where someone walked into the wrong row house after a
bit too much to drink at parties... the guy two doors down may
be who you are shooting ... Identify ALL targets.

Per the 'same neighborhood, you'll hit him' line:  Remember that 1 inch
diameter shot cloud?  That means you must be pointed with enough 
precision to have that 1 inch diameter spot ON the target.  That is
not, in my book 'same neighborhood'.  That is 'ON TARGET' with a GOOD AIM.

>(3) Small shot will tend not to penetrate the side of the house and 
>kill your neighbor.  Not tru of rifle bullets (but true of low-power
>pistols).

Somewhat true, but misleading.  A 1 inch diameter 1 oz. shot column
will go right through a drywall interior wall and kill the person 
on the other side.  It MAY be stopped by 2 walls or by a thicker 
wall (say, thick stucco and insulation) but will kick loose enough
small junk on the otherside to blind anyone looking that way.

You may not kill your neighbor, only blind him for life.  You may
not kill you family in the next room, only cripple them for life.
Rule #2: KNOW WHAT IS BEHIND WHERE YOU SHOOT.  Don't shoot if you
don't know that the space is clear for a couple of walls worth ...

BTW, the 'rifle bullets' is a bit vague.  There is a world of 
difference between a .22 Long Rifle at 1200 fps. and a .257 Roberts ...
One is a serious game rifle, and is what you were talking about...

>(4) You may note even have to fire it.  Flick on the lights, and when
>the perpetrator sees a big inch-across barrel pointing at him, he'll\
>likely soil himself.  A ruger .22 just doesn't have the same emotional
>impact.  Same goes for the sound of chambering the first round.  Shotguns
>make a nice, deep, metallic sound.

This is true, but don't depend on it.  The sound of a round being
racked home in a pump shotgun is VERY distinct and likely to scare
the begeesus out of any bad guy.  HOWEVER:  Rule #3:  IF YOU DON'T
INTEND TO USE THE GUN, DON'T GET IT OUT.  Never depend on the gun
to intimidate.  Only get it out and point it at someone if you
fully intend to use deadly force on them and understand the 
consequences.

>Recommended load:  first round would a hand-packed salt round (I'm
>a liberal and my goal is to scare the guy off).  

Serious liablility issue in this.  You will be sued to the point
where the bad guy is living in you home and you arn't if you use
this on him.

>Second round is
>run-of-the-mill birdshot.  

Reasonable, and what I would use in my shotgun, since it doesn't
penetrate walls AS WELL as buckshot (but DOES still penetrate walls!!).

>Last five rounds are 00 buckshot (BIG pellets
>and the guy won't get up).  

Remember, though, that these pellets are as big as rifle bullets
and have significant velocity.  They will penetrate walls just
about the same as magnum power handgun or medium rifle bullets ( the
velocity of a magnum hangun is about 1300 ft/sec, which is roughly
the same as the shot from a magnum buckshot round, and about the 
same calibre ... )

>Fire the first to scare.  

I don't know about this.  It can be AWFULLY hard to fire off-target,
then get back ON-target before the attacker gets to you...  Also,
are you SURE you know what is on the other side of that wall you
are shooting at?  Are you SURE that everyone who follows this
advice lives in one story homes and won't kill someone upstairs
by firing through the cieling?

My PERSONAL OPPINION:  If you have to fire, fire to stop your attacker.
If you don't have to fire to stop your attacker, don't fire at all.
Consult Ayoob for the right answer ...

>If he comes at 
>you, fire the second to stun him, 

FLAT OUT WRONG and POTENTIALLY LETHAL.  Definitly a liability no-no.
There is NO 'fire to stun' with a 1 inch diameter 1 oz. mass of lead
doing 1200 feet per second.  There is fire to kill, fire to stop, 
fire to tear his {arm, leg, head, etc.} off.  There is NO FIRE TO STUN
option.  Simply not possible physically.  Saying in court that you
were only 'firing to stun him' when he got his arm blown off will 
result in you supporting him as he lives out the rest of his days
in your house.  With you on the street.

>the last five to finish him off
>while he's stunned.  

This will result in wrongfull death charges, at least.  If he is
stunned (which I think is not possible..., but assume somehow 
it happened), then the threat has ended.  Killing him at that
point is either {murder, manslaughter, wrongfull death}.  The
DA is likely to go for murder one.  His heirs will file civil suit
for wrongfull death.  If you are VERY LUCKY, you will get off
with manslaughter and a few million in wrongfull death settlement.

Fire to STOP the attacker, and only that.

>Drag perpetrator into house, if necessary.

This is modifying a crime scene and is a serious punishable offense.
The blood streak/trail a shotgun killed person will leave on the 
ground will be clear evidence.  The lack of colateral damage behind
the 'new' body position will be confirming.  The forensic team that
will then be called will confirm the real place of death and body
position.  You will be sent up for MURDER ONE.  (with modifying
a crime scene added for seasoning...).

Please please please, don't post stuff about moving dead bodies
or shotguns being some magic gun that takes out everything in 
any direction it is vaguely pointed in.  It just isn't so...

Yes, a shotgun is likely to be the best home defense weapon, but 
the advice that it doesn't need practice and can be vaguely
waved in the right direction to work is flat out wrong.  The idea
of 'shooting to stun' is just crazy... and the advice to kill them
after they are down will likey get you put away for murder...

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house