From: 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca ( )
Subject: Re: Least Valuable Players (career)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 03:14:20 GMT

In <1992Apr12.014408.6749@cs.umn.edu> lsmith@cs.umn.edu (Lance "Cogsworth" Smith) writes:

>In article <1992Apr11.234752.671@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca ( ) writes:
>>In <204766@unix.cis.pitt.edu> dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:
>>
>>>An even worse example if Alfredo Griffin, who played 140 games at shortstop
>>>in 1984 for a team that had Tony Fernandez.  Fernandez was only 21, but he
>>
>>Griffin played 6 years in TO, 3 in OAK and 4 in LA.  Toronto, a defending
>>champion, just reacquired him.  These 3 organizations are 3 of the most
>>successful in the game.  Are you implying that they don't know what they
>>are doing?  No, I think the problem might be found in your one-dimensional
>>analysis of a player's worth.

>Um, if Alfredo is such a source of talent and leadership why haven't one of
>these three teams held onto him? If a player is a key part of winning then
>usually a good organization will try to keep them. 



Um, because some potential "superstars", Fernandez and rookie of the year
Walt Weiss came along.  LA has let him go at the end of his career but TO
has picked him back up.  He had considerably more than a cup of coffee with 
each team.

>>Alfredo Griffin is reported to be a really nice guy, a positive influence
>>on the bench, in the clubhouse and on the field - if not at the plate.

>Sadly, I could put together a team of 25 nice guys that would not win
>more than 60 games. (Most would probably have played for the 1982 Twins.)
>On the other hand, I could put together a team of 25 trouble makers, SOBs
>and whiners that would scare the hell out of any other major league team.

And of course you could put together a team of nice guys that do finish first
while you could put together some malcontents that don't but the point is
that you cannot put together 25 Alfredo Griffins (or any other player) 
because you cannot quantify his contributions.

>(This suggests a new thread. The All Trouble-Maker Team.)

>>Making him the butt of your little statistical jokes shows a complete
>>lack of respect for a man who commands a lot more respect from his peers
>>than Tony Fernandez.  Ask the players if he made a "measurable" contribution.

>Do players actually say this? I've heard players say a lot of good things
>about Fernandez over the years. I can't say the same about Griffin. Perhaps
>the Dodger fans (Msr Dodger?) can fill me in on what I've missed.

tony fernandez was one of the moodiest sourest players to ever wear the 
jays uniform.  griffin by contrast was effervescent.

>-- 
> Lance "Gen Admin" Smith |"This royal stadium of kings, this cover'd field,
>   (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)   | This turf of dynasty, this dugout of Kirby,
>   The Cat That Walked   | This other Nicholet, major league paradise,
>        By Himself       | This dome built by Minnesota for herself"   Kelly II
-- 
roger l. maynard                              
91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca             
Sudbury Ont.                                
Canada