HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sjk@strl.labs.tek.com (Steven King)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Incongruent discipline philosophies (Was: Re: 20/20 and Spanking)
Date: 6 Nov 92 23:48:59 GMT
Reply-To: sjk@strl.labs.tek.com (Steven King)
Followup-To: misc.kids
Distribution: na
Organization: Software Technology Research Lab, Tektronix, Inc.

In article <1992Nov6.180340.8580@bcrka451.bnr.ca>, seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna Watson) writes:

[Stuff deleted]

|> I do not believe in spanking, though I have had bad days and spanked my 
|> children.  When I have done this, I have immediately apologized, explaining
|> that I was very angry, but I should not have hit them.

Thank you Seanna, for being so frank.  Your statement brings up an
interesting question for misc.kid'ers on both ends of the spectrum...
Is it "better" to believe in spanking and only use it in a rational manner
when other methods fail, or is it "better" to _not_ believe in spanking and 
use it in a moment of anger?

The reason I ask is the same reason I question fossil-fuel-alternative
radicals who drive automobiles and pro-spotted-owl people who live in
wood houses.  Yes, we're all humans and make mistakes.  But talking one
thing and consistently living another might cause others to question
the motives.  I am always interested to know how people view their own
incongruencies.

Food for thought and discussion only.  This is not intended to single
out any individual.  OK?  :^)  (Ah, what the heck.  I'll probably get
flamed by somebody anyway...)

Steven (sjk@strl.labs.tek.com)

"Sometimes if you have a cappuccino and then try again it will work OK."
(Dr. Brian Reid)  "Sometimes one cappuccino isn't enough." (Marcus Ranum)
"A double vanilla latte always works."  (Me)
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: How to go about finding a doula (midwife) in Buffalo?
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:10:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I'm seriously considering hiring a doula (midwife).  I have a 
doctor already and will be giving birth in a hospital.  However, 
I might want a trained midwife to coach me during delivery and do 
perineal massage, so that I have the best chance of avoiding an
episiotomy.

How would I find a midwife in Buffalo?  Is there an organization 
I can contact?  I looked under midwife in the phone book and only 
one was listed (nurse-midwife) and she works only with another 
doctor's office.

Any suggestions?

- Peggy -
From: bloch@wupost.wustl.edu (Charlene Bloch Abrams)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Things My Parents Did Right
Date: 12 Nov 1992 13:57:01 -0600
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis
NNTP-Posting-Host: informatics.wustl.edu

In article <1du6sdINN3lt@eagle.natinst.com> jdietz@natinst.com (Jennifer Dietz) writes:
>In article <1dtv3mINNm5k@informatics.wustl.edu> bloch@wupost.wustl.edu (Charlene Bloch Abrams) writes:
>>I think this is a great thread. My parents:
>
>a lot of good stuff deleted....
>
>>
>>2. Never yelled at each other, or argued, or criticized each other in
>>front of the kids.
>
>*Never?!*  I think disagreement is only natural.

I agree. My parents certainly disagreed (and still do!), just never hashed
out things in front of us, I guess in case it got messy. Of course, as we
got older, we probably were exposed to more disagreements, but they'd never
discuss a child-rearing or -related issue in front of us, which I think is 
a good idea (unified front and all that).

Another thing on the unified front issue that they did right and my parents-
in-law did wrong, was that if one parent nay-sayed something (an activity or
hoped-for acquisition), the other would NEVER then allow it. My mother-in-law
admits to often allowing her kids stuff that my father-in-law had prohibited,
which I think allows for playing one parent off against the other. Not to
say that parents can't have different parenting styles, but I think that
saying "Here's some XXXX, don't tell your father I let you have it" isn't
productive.

Charlene
From: ephraim@think.com (Ephraim Vishniac)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: High-chair reco wanted
Date: 10 Nov 1992 16:29:59 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: charon.think.com

In article <DURRIYA.92Nov9163917@doctor.osf.org> durriya@doctor.osf.org (Durriya Netterwala) writes:
>        I would like recommendations for high chairs. My daughter is about
>4 months old and very recently started solids. Are there any features that 
>are 'must-haves' for high chairs? Also, is it worthwhile to spend $100+ on 
>fancy chairs like the Perego or the one in the Right Start Catalog or do 
>folks find that an inexpensive one works fine too. Any brand preferences?

I think the Fisher-Price high chair is excellent. It has a big tray
that's easy to remove, and it slopes away from the baby so that it's
harder for him to reach messy spills. The whole thing folds flat so
you can put it in the back of the car when you go visiting.

*DO NOT* buy a high chair where the tray is permanently attached, or
hard to remove. When there's a big mess, you want to separate the
child and the mess as quickly as possible. My brother and his wife
bought a high chair where the tray was hinged to one arm. To get the
child out, you had to swing the tray up. So, you either had to clean
the tray first or dump the contents on the floor. 

-- 
Ephraim Vishniac    ephraim@think.com   ThinkingCorp@applelink.apple.com
 Thinking Machines Corporation / 245 First Street / Cambridge, MA 02142
        One of the flaws in the anarchic bopper society was
        the ease with which such crazed rumors could spread.
From: ncramer@bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Diaper Services - worth it ?
Date: 13 Nov 1992 00:54:55 GMT
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
Reply-To: ncramer@labs-n.bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com


elise@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com (Elise Wade) writes:
>The biggest % of landfills -- about 1 / 2 in fact -- is taken up by 
>newspaper.  

I heard an interview on NPR with a "trash-archaeologist".  Basically he was
approaching trash heaps as archaeological digs.  He made this same point
about newspapers.

Furthermore, he said it was typically very easy to measure out the years in
the garbage-strata.  As you moved down the strata, they were clearly marked
by these very evenly-spaced bright-yellow bands.  These were the results of
the yearly, simultaneous dumping of zillions of phone books.  (I mean,
where _did_ you think those things went.  ;)

> ... The next biggest items is yard wastes, such as grass 
>clippings.  So, if you *really* care about the environment, stop 
>buying newspapers (they don't have the capacity to recycle all 
>that is produced) and put your leaves and grass clippings in a 
>compost pile.

Right.  The problem with yard waste didn't seem to be its presence per se.
Rather it was the fact that it is neatly packaged up in these wholly
impermeable yard/garbage bags.  In that state it'll _never_ decompose.

N
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Newsgroups: misc.kids

Forgot to mention in my article that Toys-R-Us also carried
CREEPY CRAWLERS!  They've make the set cheaper than when we
were kids--the molds are not metal like they used to be.  Maybe
it cuts down on burned kids.

Jean
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: davej@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (David F. Juraschek)
Subject: Teething and Medication
Keywords: How much is too much? Teething, Tylenol, Oragel
Organization: George Mason University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:22:31 GMT

Our 11 month old has been teething for at least a couple of months now.

In the beginning, we used Orajel and would get about 45 minutes of relief
for her (and us!).  About a month ago, the Orajel just didn't cut it any
longer, and our daughter began to hate seeing this finger of terrible 
tasting goo heading towards her mouth.

Tylenol (or Tempra) is great - it takes about 30 minutes to "kick in" and
it lasts for about 3 and a half hours.

We belong to an HMO, so we don't get to talk to a pediatrician.  We get
nurses or orderlys on a general purpose help line.  They've told us that
we can't give Tylenol/Tempra but once every 4 hours.  They have told us
not to worry about how many doses we give - just the interval between
doses (and the dose size).

So far so good.   But, we've pretty much been giving our daughter this
good tasting stuff (it really is tasty) more or less non-stop for about
a month.  (Around 4 doses a day.)

Does anyone know if this is not good for her?

Our daughter has 5 1/2 teeth (3 1/2 top front, 2 bottom front).

When does this teething stuff let up?

Are the back teeth worse (for her and us) than the front ones?

-Just keeping a stiff upper lip and cherishing the memory of what "sleep"
 once was ...
-Dave
*
The views expressed above do not represent the opinions or any
endorsement by George Mason University or it's affiliates.

Replies: DAVEJ@GMUVAX.BITNET  
         davej@gmuvax.gmu.edu 
	 davej@gmuvax2.gmu.edu
From: shack@cs.arizona.edu (David Shackelford)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Date: 8 Nov 92 07:48:21 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Nov5.095030.11471@sequent.com> newell@sequent.com (Donald Newell) writes:
>
 >>shack@cs.arizona.edu (David Shackelford) writes:
 >>
 >>Another thing I might do that sounds cruel to anti-spankers is to
 >>scold, tell him he's going to get spanked, and make him wait for
 >>it (and think about it during the wait).  This is how my parents
 >>connected the offense to the punishment, and I can attest to its
 >>effectiveness.
 >>
 >
 > I guess this is the Water Torture Theory of child raising.  Might I
 > suggest putting a pillory in the front yard so all may know their shame.
 >
 > Don N.

Not a bad idea, hadn't thought of that one...  ;-)

:) :)  Smiley captioned for the humor impaired :) :)

My referenced comment was intended as a statement of technique followed
by an expert opinion that it works.  It was used on me, and it did have
the desired effect without negative side-effects.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion about this or any other subject.

I do not necessarily advocate using this method.  Or maybe I do.
Someone tried to say it was "impossible" to relate the punishment to
the crime, but this demonstrates that it is indeed possible.  That's
all I'm trying to do.  Statements such as "never, always, impossible,
etc."  have no place in discussions of a subject so nebulous as child
rearing.

Dave
From: wang@optigfx.optigfx.com (Alice Wang)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: High-chair reco wanted
Summary: Info forwarded
Date: 12 Nov 92 17:53:42 GMT
Followup-To: misc.kids
Distribution: usa
Organization: Optigraphics Corporation, San Diego

In article <DURRIYA.92Nov9163917@doctor.osf.org> durriya@doctor.osf.org (Durriya Netterwala) writes:
>
>HI Folks,
>        I would like recommendations for high chairs. My daughter is about
>4 months old and very recently started solids. Are there any features that 
>are 'must-haves' for high chairs? Also, is it worthwhile to spend $100+ on 
>fancy chairs like the Perego or the one in the Right Start Catalog or do 
>folks find that an inexpensive one works fine too. Any brand preferences?
>

A few months ago I've asked the same question.  I've gotten a lot of
helpful info from misc-kidders.  I've saved and forwarded these info
to Durriya.  So if you replied to my request back then, please consider
youself said.  I also sent along the debate regarding clip-on chairs.

Thanks,
Alice Wang
Mom to Christine, 11 mo
wang@optigfx.com
From: judyd@rosebud.CNA.TEK.COM (Judy E. Drake)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: washing detergents
Date: 13 Nov 92 17:03:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: master.3897
Reply-To: judyd@rosebud.CNA.TEK.COM
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix, Inc. - Redmond, OR

In article <1992Nov12.204850.17361@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>, cma@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (christine.m.dakes) writes:
|> 
|> I have sensitive skin and we use cheer-free for the laundry.  Would this
|> be ok for baby clothes?  Or would Ivory Snow be better?  Anyone
|> with babies sensitive to Ivory Snow detergent?

I used to use Cheer for the laundry when my son was a baby, with no problem.
However, when he was a year old, he developed eczema, and our pediatrician
told us to switch to Ivory Snow, or some other laundry _soap_ (as opposed
to detergent).  I started washing his stuff in Ivory Snow (and dressed him
in all cotton, didn't use soap on him in the bath, etc., etc.), and the
eczema went away after a while.  After a year or so, I started washing
his clothes back with the rest of ours in detergent again.

I saw a posting from someone here the other day (father of an 8-month-old,
I think?) who was chortling that only neurotic new parents use special 
laundry soap on their babies.  Well, I found out that only unsuspecting
new parents would be that cocksure about such a thing!

Anyway, babies do have sensitive skin, some more than others.  And I found
it interesting that my child developed a sensitivity to the laundry detergent
more than a year later.  I guess it can happen at any time.  If you want
to be careful to avoid skin problems, using Ivory Snow or Dreft would help.

Now I use Tide for all our laundry, and my 10-month-old daughter has yet to
develop any skin problems.  However, if she ever does, I will switch to 
washing her stuff in Ivory Snow for a while.

Judy Drake

P.S.  By the way, what IS Metallica anyway??
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mryan@stsci.edu
Subject: Re: Tourettes Syndrome
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:38:53 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.153000.17655@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, sll@bellcore.com writes:
> I'm looking for some experiences people have had dealing with Tourettes
> Syndrome.  My 10 year old nephew has just been diagnosed as having Tourettes.
> I would be interested in what type of symptoms the folks with Tourettes
> have, and which if any medications people have tried, and what were the results.
> 
> Sharon
> sll@bellcore.com


Sharon, your email address is no good.

I was at a B. Dalton's bookstore a few nights ago, looking in the "Child 
Development" section, and there was a book specifically about Tourette's 
Syndrome.  I don't remember the exact title or author, but there was a 
series of books about specific disorders (another one was about Cerebral 
Palsy).  I'm sure there is also a national organization for Tourette's
Syndrome, the book probably has the address.  If you can't find this
book, email me & I'll go write down the title and publisher.

You should post this question to sci.med, there are several M.D.'s including
one neurologist (Gordon Banks) who post there regularly.

Good luck to your nephew.

Mary Ryan			mryan@stsci.edu
Space Telescope Science Institute
Baltimore, Maryland
From: dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Strange games they play (6&12YO)
Date: 9 Nov 92 01:59:09 GMT
Reply-To: dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


     Let's start a new thread:
     When we stopped by my cousins' on the way back to school today,
Matthew was walking around with a chicken mask on, clucking like a chicken
at one point.  Dan then teased: "Hey, let's have chicken for supper tonight,"
and started chasing Matthew around; he and I tickled him silly upon
catching him.  Dan then put the mask on, though it was a bit small for his
face, and we did the same thing.
     Well, at least noone thought of trying any trick rockets or other odd
gadgets like Wiley Coyote has tried using to catch the Road Runner.:-)
-- 
Doug Fowler: dxf12@po.CWRU.edu  : Me, age 4 & now: "Mommys and Daddys & other
   "Thou shalt love God with all: relatives have to give lots of hugs & love
thy heart...*and thy neighbor as: & support, 'cause Heaven is just a great
thyself*." Luke 10:27           : big hug that lasts forever and ever!!!"
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: elhowell@elhowell.b17a.ingr.com (Ellen Howell)
Subject: Re: High-chair reco wanted
Reply-To: elhowell@elhowell.b17a.ingr.com (Ellen Howell)
Organization: "Intergraph Corp, Huntsville AL"
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:24:08 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.163713.18016@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>, lauraf@classy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom) writes:
|> In article <1doo27INNul@early-bird.think.com> ephraim@think.com (Ephraim Vishniac) writes:
|> >In article <DURRIYA.92Nov9163917@doctor.osf.org> durriya@doctor.osf.org (Durriya Netterwala) writes:
|> >>        I would like recommendations for high chairs. My daughter is about
|> >>4 months old and very recently started solids. Are there any features that 
|> >>are 'must-haves' for high chairs? Also, is it worthwhile to spend $100+ on 
|> >>fancy chairs like the Perego or the one in the Right Start Catalog or do 
|> >>folks find that an inexpensive one works fine too. Any brand preferences?
|> >
|> >I think the Fisher-Price high chair is excellent. It has a big tray
|> >that's easy to remove, and it slopes away from the baby so that it's
|> >harder for him to reach messy spills. The whole thing folds flat so
|> >you can put it in the back of the car when you go visiting.
|> 
|> I second this! We have the wooden model, which doesnt fold, but it is very
|> sturdy. Jeffrey (2.6 years) still uses it, but without the tray. You can
|> remver the brackets that keep the tray on the highchair, and it is just
|> a tall wooden chair that is very stabile. Jeffrey can climb in and out of it
|> by himself, and it wont tip over.
|> 
|> Another thing I liked about it (both the collapsable and the wooden one) is
|> that the seat is quite ample. Jeffrey was a big baby, and I remember using
|> other peoples higchairs when we went visiting, and he just didnt have as 
|> much room. One good wiggle and he was slipping out.
|> >
|> Laura Floom
|> 
|> 
I third this!  I got our FP high chair at a garage sale for $15 and it
has held up wonderfullly.  Our first child had a "Jolly" seat which was
bascially a booster seat with attachable tray.  It took two hand to get 
tray on/off and was very difficult to do.  The tray was so small, 
everything wound up on the floor.  
-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ellen Howell                    *  "Ow: The first word spoken by children
elhowell@elhowell.b17a.ingr.com *   with older siblings."
(205)730-6873                   *                       -- Joyce Armorz
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Subject: Re: parent/child relationships
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 00:02:36 GMT

In article <4570291@hpfcdc.fc.hp.com> janem@hpfcdc.fc.hp.com (Jane Marcus) writes:
>
>Actually, I do apologize to my kids sometimes for excessive yelling.  If
>I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.  Why shouldn't I admit it to my kids?  
>
The best mother/daughter relationship I have ever seen is the one between my
older cousin and her now 24 YO daughter.  For example, when her daughter was
graduating from college she was debating whether she should live with her
boyfriend or marry him.  Her mother's suggestion was that she do neither.  This
daughter's comment was "That's NOT an option, Mom."  They are both mother/
daughter and close friends.

One of the things my cousin said that she made a point of doing was pointing
out to her children all the times she screwed up.  She remembers, as do I,
how devastated she was when she discovered her parents weren't perfect.  They
always acted perfect.  They never admitted they were confused or in doubt.
She decided this was wrong and always kept those channels of communication 
open.  

I try to emulate her in this area (I'll never be as together as she is in 
the ways she is together, but then she feels the same about me).  

Of course, I don't apologize to my children for excessive yelling.  Nor do
I punish them for the same.  We have a very LOUD household at times.  I 
consider it cultural.  Hey, Italians fight loudly all the time.  Yelling is
a wonderful tension reliever.  Why do you scream on roller coasters?  It
feels good.  (No, neither my husband nor I are Italian.  We were both raised
in quiet households where the icy stare, cold shoulder, and silent treatment
were the norm.  We both rejected it.  To hell with what the neighbors think).

I think there is ample difference between the volume of your voice, the tone
of your voice, and the content of your words.  But yelling in a good argument
can really be fun.  Just ask my kids.  They just adore screaming at each
other, especially at the dinner table ;-(  (No, we don't really tolerate it,
but so often it is being done in good fun and until it hurts someone's ears
we generally let it be).

-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 13:54:36 GMT

In article <24093@alice.att.com> llf@alice.UUCP (alice!llf) writes:
>In several articles elg@elgamy.uucp.taronga.com (Eric Lee Green) writes:
>
>> In many behavior centers, there are two levels of exclusionary timeout. One
>> is called simply "timeout", where the child sits in a chair facing into a
>> corner, or stands facing into a corner. If the child refuses to comply with
>> regular "timeout", the child is then taken to a seclusionary timeout room
>> where he HAS to serve his (now longer) timeout simply because there's no
>
>I find this very interesting.  I came across a book that seemingly advocated 
>seclusionary timeout.  Several people here commented that it seemed like
>"solitary confinement for the torture and interrogation of prisoners" and that
>it was close to child abuse.
>
>I've been unable to find a reasonable explanation of teaching simple timeout
>to a 2 year old without first teaching seclusionary timeout.  (I am also unable
>to find a place that is sufficiently boring to a 2 year old that seclusionary
>timeout would necessarily be successful.)
>
>Physically restraining a small child to a chair in a corner generally results
>in physical damage to parental body parts.  Or perhaps waiting until they are
>between 3 and 5 years old might be more successful?
>

  Since I have an under 2 year old, I've found that the best way for a
  "time-out" is to take the child with you to another room and you stay
  in the room with the child.  So what if he gets interested in something
  else.  Most likely this is enough to distract him from whatever behavior
  it was that you found undesirable, such as pulling the lid off the
  diaper pail.  By the way, he thinks it's fun so punishing him per se
  would not make any sense to him.  Now for truly dangerous situations
  like my husband's weight set, we are very firm and promptly remove him
  from the vicinity while explain (as best we can) how his fingers or
  toes will get smashed.  We also have a safety gate to the kitchen
  so he can't go in and turn on the gas or pull out the drano.  So
  for an under 2 year old, you really don't need to implement any
  punishment or discipline other than to keep them away from hazardous
  conditions and nip any anti-social (biting, pinching and hair-pulling)
  behavior.  Of course I'm speaking of an only child.  I'm sure things
  will get more complicated once my next one is born...  :-)