HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: edguer@ces.cwru.edu (Aydin Edguer)
Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.wais
Subject: Re: Missing Piece In WAIS Protocol?
Date: 14 Sep 1992 17:34:40 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
NNTP-Posting-Host: sentinel.ces.cwru.edu

In article <BuE4AL.9y7@sti.com> westes@sti.com (Will Estes) writes:
> I think there are several different issues here.  One issue is how do
> you present to an end-user information about databases available on one
> or more servers.

You use the "directory-of-servers" database.  As the directory-of-servers.src
states: "This is a White Pages listing of WAIS servers."

> The second issue is how does a client application get the information
> that it needs to present information to a user, however it chooses to
> present it.  This is the focus of my question.  I need some way to grab 
> a list of databases from the server as a means of building some user
> interface device to present those services to a user.

You use WAIS to query the directory-of-servers database.  If you don't
want to use WAIS directly then you can use FTP to get a copy of all the
source entries and build your own interface.

> By allowing any client to grab the entire table of contents, you put
> the impetus on the client to do all of the user access control
> verification, and in effect you don't have any security at all.

Huh?!  What does a table of contents have to do with user access control?

In order to achieve user access control, you have to have cooperating
server and client software that performs some sort of authentication
protocol.  Depending upon security through obscurity [not listing the
database in the table of contents] is ludicrous.

Aydin Edguer
Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.wais
Subject: Help! Where are the format descriptions?
From: Thomas J Cozzolino <RBNTJC@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 09:13:09 EDT
Organization: Rohm and Haas Company

I know that WAIS has many built-in formats activated by the -t option in
waisindex (i.e., -t one_line, -t netnews, etc.).

Is there a detailed description of each type available with the wais-8-b5
distribution?  Or is there doc'n at quake.think.com?  I used xwais to poke
around with no success.  I'm trying to RTFM, *if* I can find the FM! ;-{)

Please respond via E-Mail if possible.  Thanks.

+============================================+
|   Thomas J. Cozzolino - Rohm and Haas Co.   =
|   InterNet:    tcozz@rohmhaas.com            =
|                                               =
|   " It's such a fine line, really, between     =
|         'clever' and 'stupid' "                 =
|                  - D. St. Hubbins                =
|                                                   =
|   - Opinions expressed are my own, not             =
|     necessarily those of Rohm and Haas Company      =
+======================================================+
Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.wais
From: francois@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu (Francois Schiettecatte)
Subject: Re: Missing Piece In WAIS Protocol?
Organization: Johns Hopkins Univ. Welch Medical Library
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 19:21:50 GMT

In article <BuBqGq.1rL@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, krol@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Ed Krol) writes:
|> Wait a minute.  I thought the question was "Why can't I ask
|> a server what databases it offers?".  It is useful to ask
|> which of these 6 offerings of the same database is best for me to use.
|> 
|> Other lesson I learned: don't post responses in the middle of 
|> the night when half asleep.
|> 


You can ask a server which databases it has available
by specifying INFO as the database to search on that
server.

francois
Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.wais
From: westes@netcom.com (Will Estes)
Subject: How To Adjust Server Timeout?
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 92 00:17:27 GMT
Organization: Mail Group

I'm trying to port a WAIS client, and I'm noticing that the server is
timing out on my TCP connection and dropping it.  What's the default on
the server for timeout, and how do I change this?

Thanks,
Will Estes		Internet: westes@netcom.com
From: J.P.Knight@lut.ac.uk
Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.wais
Subject: Re: Missing Piece In WAIS Protocol?
Date: 9 Sep 92 10:27:40 GMT
Reply-To: J.P.Knight@lut.ac.uk (Jon Knight)
Organization: Dept of Comp. Studies, Loughborough University of Tech., UK.

In article <BuAt7L.A8w@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> krol@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Ed Krol) writes:
>westes@sti.com (Will Estes) writes:
>
>[question on automated client searching of database servers deleted]
>
>I am not an expert on wais protocols, but have used wais a reasonable
>amount.  The first thing that struck me in the question was, "Why
>do you care what services are available on a given server?".
>You have a question which you want to look up in a particular
>database, the server where it resides is not really a concern.

Ah ha, maybe its not currently a concern but it could well be.  All the
WAIS engines I know of are on the Internet and we're in a cosy little
enviroment in which a call down the hall 'costs' many of us the same as
a call round the world.  What happens when some WAIS servers are available
only by phone as well?  I'd be jolly unhappy to find that my favourite
database was in America on the end of one of their 900 numbers! (I know
900 costs a lot of money; many non-Americans wouldn't.  In England 0898
and 0836 are the prime rate numbers; 0900 is just a normal STD code). 

What about if you've also got a question but haven't clue which database
to look it up in?  My feeling would be that if you don't supply a
database, a nice WAIS client would wander off to a directory of servers
and, using a bit of intelligence, query it for relavent databases and
then send you query to them.  It might take into account where the
servers are, what they cost, how well they've performed in the past, etc
(see the document by Brewster et al thats included in the WAIS release
documentation; they talk about just such a system).

>
>Second, having to look things up in directories seems to be not so
>much fragile as practical.  So there are order 300 'public' databases
>listed in directory of servers.  How many are used by the normal
>run of the mill patron, maybe 10.  More likely 2.  Think about what
>would happen if there were 10,000 databases.  Would you like to
>regularly scroll through them all just to select the one you use
>all the time.  I think the model this is based on is that everyone
>has an entry in the white pages, but 10 speed calling buttons 
>are enough for most people.  Not everyone who gets a phone
>warrants a speed calling button.

And I'd like a phone that deduced who I should ring based upon what I
was going to say to them when they answered.  No speed buttons at all...

Jon

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jon P. Knight (Postgrad, Subwarden & Sys Admin).  Tel:(+44) (0)509 222298
Internet: J.P.Knight@lut.ac.uk Snail: CS Dept, LUT, Leics., UK. LE11 3TU.
* I can't even talk to you without the aid of chemicals or lies. - Pele *
Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.wais
From: mwm@fernwood.mpk.ca.us (Mike Meyer)
Subject: Re: Missing Piece In WAIS Protocol?
Organization: Anterior Technology, Menlo Park, CA, USA
	<1992Sep9.102740.14358@lut.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:54:36 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.102740.14358@lut.ac.uk> J.P.Knight@lut.ac.uk writes:

   What about if you've also got a question but haven't clue which database
   to look it up in?  My feeling would be that if you don't supply a
   database, a nice WAIS client would wander off to a directory of servers
   and, using a bit of intelligence, query it for relavent databases and
   then send you query to them.

My first reaction to this problem was exactly that. Using the NeXT
interface, the obvious thing to do was drop a server on the "that
look like" well, so it would find other servers that had similar
databases. I was disappointed when it didn't work.

After all, if concept navigation is a good idea, it should apply to
finding other things as well.

	<mike
From: barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin)
Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.wais
Subject: Re: WAIS clients ?
Date: 14 Sep 1992 23:17:34 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: telecaster.think.com

In article <1992Sep14.175322.1256@venus.ic.cmc.ca> yooho@ursula.ic.cmc.ca (Yoo Ho Cho) writes:
>I am looking for a WAIS client to run on a Sparcstation IPC. I've just
>started reading this group and it seems to me that WAIS is somewhat 
>commercial in nature so I'm assuming that the bulk, if not all, of the 
>client software is commercial but if there is source code available, 
>I'll appreciate any pointers to ftp locations etc.

>On another thread, what is the availability of server software for Suns ?

Several clients and a server for the Sun are provided in the
wais-8-b5.tar.Z distribution on ftp.think.com.
-- 
Barry Margolin
System Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.

barmar@think.com          {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
From: emv@msen.com (Edward Vielmetti)
Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.wais
Subject: Re: Missing Piece In WAIS Protocol?
Date: 9 Sep 1992 11:09:33 -0400
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, Michigan
NNTP-Posting-Host: nigel.msen.com
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

krol@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Ed Krol) writes:
: You have a question which you want to look up in a particular
: database, the server where it resides is not really a concern.

Transport speeds vary widely over the Internet, so that it's sensible to
e.g. seek out European servers if you're in Europe and approach them
with care if you're in the US.  Given how many servers are starting to
show up with replicated data, it is somewhat important to have an idea of
where you are sending your packets to.

: Second, having to look things up in directories seems to be not so
: much fragile as practical.  So there are order 300 'public' databases
: listed in directory of servers.  How many are used by the normal
: run of the mill patron, maybe 10.  More likely 2.  

hey, which 10, which 2?  I know the ones I'm fond of but please share your
list.  (hm, i should instrument my 'ws' shell script that I use to call
waissearch to count for me...)

--
Edward Vielmetti, vice president for research, MSEN Inc. emv@msen.com
      MSEN Inc., 628 Brooks, Ann Arbor MI  48103 +1 313 998 4562
 A distributed system is one in which the failure of a computer you didn't
 even know existed can render your own computer unusable. (Leslie Lamport)

Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.wais
From: krol@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Ed Krol)
Subject: Re: Missing Piece In WAIS Protocol?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 06:40:19 GMT

westes@sti.com (Will Estes) writes:

>The current protocol seems to require the user to connect to a directory
>database on a server and then browse this for the databases that
>interest him.  But what if you want to have this list of services be
>presented under the control of a program?  Is your program expected to
>know the name of a directory database on a particular server and then
>parse through the table of contents document to get the names of other
>servers?  That seems pretty fragile....
   ...
>What WAIS seems to lack currently is a protocol that would assist
>someone who is writing a WAIS client in presenting to the user a list of
>services that are available on a given server.  Right or wrong?

I am not an expert on wais protocols, but have used wais a reasonable
amount.  The first thing that struck me in the question was, "Why
do you care what services are available on a given server?".
You have a question which you want to look up in a particular
database, the server where it resides is not really a concern.

Second, having to look things up in directories seems to be not so
much fragile as practical.  So there are order 300 'public' databases
listed in directory of servers.  How many are used by the normal
run of the mill patron, maybe 10.  More likely 2.  Think about what
would happen if there were 10,000 databases.  Would you like to
regularly scroll through them all just to select the one you use
all the time.  I think the model this is based on is that everyone
has an entry in the white pages, but 10 speed calling buttons 
are enough for most people.  Not everyone who gets a phone
warrants a speed calling button.
From: emv@msen.com (Edward Vielmetti)
Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.wais
Subject: Re: Help! Where are the format descriptions?
Date: 15 Sep 1992 16:58:20 -0400
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, Michigan
NNTP-Posting-Host: nigel.msen.com
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

RBNTJC@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com (Thomas J Cozzolino) writes:

: Is there a detailed description of each type available with the wais-8-b5
: distribution?  Or is there doc'n at quake.think.com?  I used xwais to poke
: around with no success.  I'm trying to RTFM, *if* I can find the FM! ;-{)

you should invoke the other usenet mantra, UTSL (Use the Source, Luke). In
particular look in ir/ircfiles.c and ir/irbuild.c to look at the little
parser that goes along with each document type.

There are parsers and indexers that move the decisions out of the irbuild
code off into shell scripts and unix code on the side, so that you do your
tokenizing and what not off there where you can hack at it, rather than in
the indexer.  This is e.g. what the folks at Inria do to index their TeX
and dvi files and to index their pictures.  

  Edward Vielmetti, vice president for research, Msen Inc. emv@Msen.com
        Msen Inc., 628 Brooks, Ann Arbor MI  48103 +1 313 998 4562


Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.wais
From: myself
Subject: test
Keywords: this is a test
Organization: NTS
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 21:09:02 GMT
From: westes@sti.com (Will Estes)
Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.wais
Subject: Missing Piece In WAIS Protocol?
Date: 9 Sep 92 01:11:00 GMT
Organization: Mail Group

I'm looking at adding user access controls to WAIS, and I noticed that
the WAIS protocol does not seem to have any method by which a list of
services available on a server can be automatically presented to a user.
Is this correct?

The current protocol seems to require the user to connect to a directory
database on a server and then browse this for the databases that
interest him.  But what if you want to have this list of services be
presented under the control of a program?  Is your program expected to
know the name of a directory database on a particular server and then
parse through the table of contents document to get the names of other
servers?  That seems pretty fragile....

For a variety of reasons, I haven't been able to get past a local
firewall to any Internet WAIS servers, and I am confined to a local
server that I built from the wais-8-b5 source.  So pardon me if I am
missing something that would be obvious if I did have access to outside
WAIS servers.  What little I have read in the WAIS protocol definition 
documents and seen in the xwais and Windows-WAIS user interfaces suggests 
to me that the user is expected to know the name of the directory
database and then manually add whatever sources he chooses to his own
local source listings.

What WAIS seems to lack currently is a protocol that would assist
someone who is writing a WAIS client in presenting to the user a list of
services that are available on a given server.  Right or wrong?

A related question: can someone who is familiar with the z39.50 protocol
please explain to me how will user access control be supported?  Is it
part of the 1992 specification, or is that designated as a
to-be-implemented part of the protocol?  What specifically does WAIS
mean by user access control?  What I mean by that phrase is the ability
to define which databases are visible to which users.  In our case, we
will probably use Kerberos to do the authentication.

Thanks,
Will Estes		Internet: westes@netcom.com
-- 
Will Estes		Internet: westes@netcom.com
Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.wais,comp.sys.next.misc,jhu.general
From: lwatkins@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Lee Watkins)
Subject: Is there a "publishable" WAIS server for NeXT?
Followup-To: poster
Summary: publishing to Internet disabled in NeXT-WAIStation v1.9
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 14:05:58 GMT


[aside--isn't somebody at JHU working on WAIStation for the NeXT? at the 
Laboratory for Applied Research in Academic Information? contact me if so...]

I am running NeXT-WAIStation 1.9. I tried to make public a WAIS source on my 
NeXTstation and it says "Sorry, Internet publication has been disabled in this 
version."  Huh?  

I did not look real hard for evidence to the contrary but I did look
and it does not appear to me that there has been much activity on this
subject. Is there a newer and/or difference version of WAIS server I can
run on the NeXT?  Surely people have asked this question, but i can not find
an answer (even using WAIS!).

Lee Watkins
Asst. Director
JHU Homewood Academic Computing

ps-how come the wais-disucssion-archives.src files are so old?  my questions
don't return anything newer than '91? same with wais-talk-archives.src. Am
i missing something? (wouldn't surprise me...)

Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.wais
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Need Help With Waissearch 
Distribution: world
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:40:53 +0000


In article <95gndqa.westes@netcom.com> westes@netcom.com writes:
>I compiled wais-8-b5 on one Sun system and moved it to another Sun
>system.  The first system has a firewall, so I couldn't test any remote
>connections.  On the second system, running this command:
>        waissearch -h think.quake.com -p 210 -d directory-of-servers "poetry"
>gets this error message:
>        Connect to socket did not work (1): Host is unreachable
>
>What is the source of that error message?  Is it possible that I need to
>recompile on the second system in order to access some library at
>run-time?

My trivial error may not be yours, but...

when I got this it was because I don't run yp, and quake.think.com wasn't
in my /etc/hosts file...

Failing that, it might just have been unreachable at the time.  Have you
tried again since?  If you can telnet to it you should be able to
waissearch it.  Try by number instead of by name just in case...

G
Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.wais
From: krol@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Ed Krol)
Subject: Re: Missing Piece In WAIS Protocol?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 18:38:36 GMT

Wait a minute.  I thought the question was "Why can't I ask
a server what databases it offers?".  It is useful to ask
which of these 6 offerings of the same database is best for me to use.

Other lesson I learned: don't post responses in the middle of 
the night when half asleep.

Xref: sparky comp.infosystems:450 comp.mail.multi-media:264 comp.multimedia:2731
From: jclark@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (S Clark james hawkin [A[A[A[B[Bx)
Subject: uucp or slip connection wanted in Maryland
Summary: need uucp or slip connection in Maryland
Keywords: slip uucp needs maryland md
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 20:24:11 GMT

I am looking for an "inexpensive" connection into INTERNET from my BBS 
in 410 area code with 730 exchange (Ellicott City/Columbia Maryland).
The BBS has 14400 v32bis/v42bis.  I need netnews and Internet Email.
I will use UUCP but SLIP would be nice.  My BBS will poll several
times a day.

Thanks.
--
	Jamie H. Clark
	jclark@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: comp.bbs.misc
Subject: Re: Running a BBS under DOS, OS/2 ... CONTINUED!
Date: 7 Sep 92 23:01:24 GMT
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

radel@bach.udel.edu (Todd Radel) writes:

>Several people have written suggesting that I use DesqView/386 for my
>multitasking work, rather than Windows or OS/2.  I have tried DV-386
>in the past, and it is an excellent multitasker.

>However, the reason I specifically mentioned Windows and OS/2 is that
>I have a bunch of graphical programs I don't want to give up (Word for
>Windows, PageMaker, etc.).  I'd like to be able to run the BBS in a
>minimized window while editing a paper with Word, for example.  The
>overhead involved in loading a separate copy of Windows in a DesqView
>window makes this even slower than running Windows itself.

In my follow-up I specifically didn't mention DesqView as I've found
that it can't do all of what you said you wanted to do while maintaining
constant/max speed.

>From the responses I've gotten so far, it seems the only choice that
>gives me real multitasking, access to the apps I like to use, and
>extra goodies like background mail processing seems to be OS/2.

Perhaps, I don't know all that much about OS/2. At the time I made
my decision to move onto real multitasking system the affordable and
available options seemed to be either UNIX or QNX. 

>So here's the big question:  Can I have an OS/2 BBS program -- say
>Maximus -- invoke a DOS door game?  If this is possible, then Maximus
>and Binkley under OS/2 would seem to have everything I need.
>Does anyone know if this can be done?

As I said, before, I have real doubts you will be able to run
everything you want on a single 386/486 machine under *any* OS.
Just processing news slows a 486MHz + 15 MS ESDI drive down! 

IMHO the only way to fully handle the speed problem is to have
a LAN of multiple-machines which look like one to users, but
can spread the load across the hardware.

If you have doubts about this, perhaps you can find somebody who's
got something similar to what you have in mind and log onto their
system and see how it actually runs. For sure if you log onto
mine, drop into the shell, and say 

  $ find / >/tmp/junk. &  # find every file as background task

Then try to run any program, you'll find that it's been slowed down. 

Depending on the amount of money you're thinking about, there 
probably isn't an easy solution to the speed problem. However,
if your seriously interested in maintaining a constant speed,
I would definitely have a system that can not only multi-task
but multi-task across mulitiple machines! 

You know, "The better it runs, the better we want it to run."

>Thanks to all who've written so far.  Keep those ideas coming!

Hope what I've said helps,

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087