HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jcollier@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU (John Donald Collier)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Subject: Re: The ungrateful dead (grass doesn't kill)
Date: 17 Dec 92 07:17:32 GMT
Organization: University of Melbourne
NNTP-Posting-Host: ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au

gak@wrs.com (Richard Stueven) writes:

>In article 1gmqdvINNke6@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU, jcollier@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU (John Donald Collier) writes:
>>linden@positive.Eng.Sun.COM (Peter van der Linden) writes:
>>
>>>In what sense is a death by over-eating "due to" marijuana?
>>
>>The same way as a person who dies of internal bleeding after
>>being hit by a car was caused to die by being hit by a car.

>If you check the medical examiner's report, you'll probably find the
>cause of death listed as "internal bleeding" (or medicalese to that
>effect.)

I was talking about legal and moral concerns here. I thought that
was the issue. It certainly was in the Le Dain commission report.

>>That is 
>>a pretty normal sense of "due to".

>Common usage and technical usage are not the same things.

Why is technical usage relevant here?

>>A similar sense would be an automobile acident death of a person
>>who had drunk too much alcohol -- the death would have been due
>>to over-drinking. 

>The death would have been due to the injuries sustained in the crash.

>If the person had consumed fifteen liters of bourbon, he would have
>died from ethanol poisoning, and only then would the death "have been
>due to over-drinking".

No, he would have died from heart stoppage. Check the medical report.
(Jim Morrison's, for example.) Hardly anyone dies from alcohol if this
standard is used. It is not appropriate to the discussion. We all know
that lots of people die because of alcohol. (Cigarettes don't kill;
lung cancer, heart attacks and strokes kill -- yeh, right.)

>>I think it is you that has a definition of "due to" that is peculiar.

>Peculiar in the sense of being precise, yes.

No, it is peculiar in the sense that it is precisely inappropriate.
The concern of people with marijuana is whether using it is likely to
increase the probablity of their dying.  The proximate cause of death
is not that important.

-- 
John Collier 			Email: jcollier@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
HPS -- U. of Melbourne		  	Fax:   +61 3 344 7959
Parkville, Victoria, AUSTRALIA 3052
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: lamontg@stein.u.washington.edu (Lamont Granquist)
Subject: [UPI]: Delivery of drug to fetus not considered illegal
Organization: 'Operation: Mindcrime'
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:06:00 GMT


From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Date: 17 Dec 92 15:33:52 GMT
Newsgroups: clari.news.law.crime.trial,clari.news.law.drugs,clari.news.children,clari.news.issues.family,clari.local.pennsylvania
Subject: Drug-taking mother cleared of endangering fetus


	GREENSBURG, Pa. (UPI) -- A judge dismissed criminal charges against a
woman accused of endangering her child by smoking crack cocaine before
giving birth on grounds the child was not a person until it was born.
	Common Pleas Judge Charles Loughran dismissed the charges against
Michelle Kemp on Wednesday, ruling the fetus cannot be considered a
person under the charge of recklessly endangering another person.
	He said the fetus cannot be declared a child under the charge of
endangering the welfare of a child and dismissed a drug delivery charge
against Kemp.
	Kemp was accused Aug. 5, 1991, of delivering cocaine to her son,
Darrel, by the exchange of blood through the umbilical cord before it
was cut.
	Traces of a substance from cocaine were found in the baby's blood,
but he suffered no apparent health problems.
	The Westmoreland County district attorney's office is expected to
appeal the ruling.

-- 
Lamont Granquist  lamontg@u.washington.edu
  "When dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases."
                                      -- Robert Anton Wilson
From: honig@ruffles.ics.uci.edu (David A. Honig)
Subject: drugs or sleep?   Re: LSD and Violent Behavior.  yes
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Reply-To: honig@ics.uci.edu (David A. Honig)
Organization: UC Disneyland, in the Kingdom of Bren
Date: 12 Dec 92 20:01:00 GMT

 mccoy39@wharton.upenn.edu writes:
>In article <1992Dec8.222211.1950@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>, jrm@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu writes:
>
>> This guy you mentioned ... was he already strange in the head before
>> starting to take LSD ? Either way, he made three big mistakes ...
>> first, he picked his friends poorly, secondly he chose an excessively
>> uncontrolled setting to get high in (esp as a fairly inexperienced
>> user) and thirdly - he went to see one of those brain-butchering
>> latter-day phrenologists who like to pretend they are real scientists.
>> Yep ... psychiatrists. Stay the hell away from these rabble. No
>> rabid crackhead on acid drinking sterno is half as dangerous to
>> freedom, sanity and common sense as a shrink with a 'theory'.
>
>First of all I should emphasize that this really did happen.
>
>The guy I mentioned was generally very intelligent, and not strange in
>the head except for a recurring depression, for which he had taken
>various anti-depressants without much success.  He felt fine for a few
>months after his bad trip, but then started having all kinds of problems.
>He would constantly worry that nothing was real, and would keep falling
>into a sort of trance state where he would re-live various aspects of
>the trip.  He never slept at the right times, and started getting headaches.
>No one could convince him that he hadn't fried his brain.


His problem was 1) latent demons as evidenced by depression
2) not getting enough sleep definately makes you think your mind is
broke.  Big deal.  Don't need drugz for that.  Combine chronic lack
of sleep with propoganda about brain damage, and an unsympathetic
shrink, you get guilt and further depression.  He could have had
the same experience drinking too much.



--
David Honig

"Q: What does a C programmer say to an Ada(tm) programmer?
 A: I'll have a burger and fries, no onions."
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,talk.bizarre
From: lewis@aera8700.mitre.org (Keith Lewis)
Subject: Re: Leary, Manson, Kleps and other questions...
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:46:08 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.030129.5334@den.mmc.com>, whitmeye@den.mmc.com (Richard Whitmeyer) writes:
>Charlie? That jerk is the flaw in my view to abolish capital punishment.
>Can't see any reason not to search for the lethal dose of LSD using that
>fucker.
>
>He tried too much.
>He is still alive.
>He is doing multiple life sentences for murder.

Yes, but is he on the net?  :^)

Keith Lewis             klewis@mitre.org          "Mr. Cheap"
I don't dance to music; music dances to me.  Email me for my PGP key.
The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: cliftonr@netcom.com (Pope Clifton)
Subject: Re: Need to match drug to description
Organization: t.b, t.p.d, & a.d
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:09:49 GMT

Benjamin E Delfin (bed3@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu) wrote:
: 
: Hallucinogen, three letter name, begins with D.  Read about it in
: the Voice.
  DMT - Di-Methyl Tryptamine.

: Sends you on an inner trip into time and space, and dumps you back into
: the real world 15 minutes later.
  So they say.  Never tried it, though I've tried related compounds.

: And is it controlled?
  DMT has been for about the last 20 years.  There have been uncontrolled
analogs available (e.g. 5-Methoxy-DMT) during the last 15 years.  I have 
tried that, found it less spectacular than DMT, as it was described to me.
Some people claim the two drugs' effects are different, others claim they 
are the same.  ???  
  The 1986 "Designer Drug" law made 5MDMT and virtually any other psychoactive
compound illegal (including all the naturally occurring ones in your own
body) so access to such compounds is now difficult.  However, the DEA and
other Feds _seem_ to be mostly reluctant to criminally prosecute simple 
possession and use of substances which are not specifically scheduled by
name.  I'm sure they do prosecute sometimes, though.

  -- Clifton

--
cliftonr@netcom.com     Home: +1 808 521 9073  Work: +1 808 625 3234
Clifton Royston, Pope of the Church of the Subgenius in Paradise
"Have a revelation, the first one's free/Soon to be addicted to eternity" - HMR
Xref: sparky alt.drugs:19955 talk.politics.drugs:7998 talk.politics.guns:25408
From: bz269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James D. Del Vecchio)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,talk.politics.drugs,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Washington Post on Qat
Followup-To: talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.drugs
Date: 18 Dec 1992 03:54:36 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bz269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James D. Del Vecchio)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, backpack@access.digex.com (Stuart Reges) says:

>I think the most interesting thing about the Post article is the way it's
>written.  Compare it to the Reuter's piece and you'll see what I mean.  It's
>clear that the author of this article is antidrugs.  He doesn't even bother to
>point out the inconsistencies in his own copy.  For example, he implies at one

	The Washington Post is one of the very most biased "mainstream"
papers you are likely to find.  Look up anything to do with guns in Infotrack 
sometime.  WP, along with their rival for this, the NY Times, wrote about 95% 
of the articles listed, and the bulk of them contain shameless BS.

>journalistic point of view.  "It is said"?  What kind of citation is that?  And

	It's good enough for the Post.

>homeless and I hate the white man,' he said dully."  This is second-rate
>journalism, and I'm highly disappointed that it came from a Washington Post
>foreign service correspondent.

	Who better?   I'm only disappointed that the Post is still in 
business.

Jim Del Vecchio
From: nick@gepard.msk.su (Ovcharenko Nickolay Yurievich)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Subject: BEE VEDOM: Where to use? Information needed.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 15:08:08 +0200
Distribution: world
Organization: GEPARD, Ltd
Reply-To: nick@gepard.msk.su

Dear gentlemen!
Here in Russia we are going to produce bee vedom. Would you help us in finding
medical or pharmacological centers interested in long-time cooperation. If
scientists or other specialists will contact with us, it will be great.
     Sincerely  Nickolay Ovcharenko
     nick@gepard.msk.su
     fax (095)-135-70-30


Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: v092kdab@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (susan)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,alt.dreams,sci.med
Subject: Re: caffeine myths
Date: 13 Dec 92 04:58:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Dec10.014436.21615@sfu.ca>, probst@selkirk.sfu.ca (Scott Probst) writes...
>In article <1992Dec9.215713.10622@kestrel.edu> king@reasoning.com (Dick King) writes:
>>
>>Note that if you compete in the Olympics or in the National Fencing
>>Championships [and presumably at analogous events of other sports] you get this
>>list of drugs that you might get tested for.  It includes things like steroids,
>>and excessive caffene.  The voice at the other end of the 800 number told me
>>that you need to drink a cup or more of strong coffie per 10KG of body mass in
>>an hour to to flunk the caffene blood test -- they don't intend to deny you
>>that one cup of coffie in your Thermos.
>>
>>The penalties for being a caffene monster are the same as the penalties for
>>being a "'roid monster".
>>
>yes, i've heard of this. an australian pentathlete was thrown out of the Seoul
>olympics for this very crime, however, it was disputed that he had actually been
>using more than a thermos of coffee. one of the issue that come to light ws thatthe test used to detect illegal levels of caffiene in the urine was very
>inconsistent in the results it returned...
> 
>-sp
I was wondering how caffeine affected atheltic performance.  Why would an 
athlete use caffeine?, and why are the consequences so high?
sr
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: lewis@aera8700.mitre.org (Keith Lewis)
Subject: Re: Recipe for CRACK & Personal Experiences Requested
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:56:55 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.063720.7740@ennews.eas.asu.edu>, prado@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Louis A. Prado) writes:
>I expect to get flamed for this post, but Crack is about the only drug that
>is readily available to me (back home in Queens of course :) ).  First of
>all, does anyone know exactly what Crack is made of (just Coke and Baking
>Soad?).  Please E-Mail or post a recipe.

Yeah.  Quick-n-dirty method:  Dissolve one part cocaine HCL in water.  Mix
in two parts of baking soda.  Evaporate (boil away) the water.  This leaves
a mixture of freebase and baking soda, known on the street as "crack".

>What is the general opinon on the net of coke & its derivatives ?  And to
>you real stoners out there, what would be the drug you would recommend to
>someone who just wanted to try drugs once ?

Cocaine is a pretty boring drug.  It makes you feel good for a while; then
it makes you feel like shit.  No gain from the experience.  If you do it in
a group, expect everybody to be talking at once.

You should really read up on various drugs before deciding to use them.  I
think it's silly to decide that you want to try exactly one drug.  What if
there are none that sound attractive to you?  What if there are three (and
they all sound very different)?  Have you tried the legal ones (alcohol,
tobacco)?  How about nitrous oxide from whip cream cans?

Keith Lewis             klewis@mitre.org          "Mr. Cheap"
I don't dance to music; music dances to me.  Email me for my PGP key.
The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.
Xref: sparky alt.drugs:19573 alt.folklore.urban:30950
From: linden@positive.Eng.Sun.COM (Peter van der Linden)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: UL: Monumental LSD overdose taken (was: Re: Brands of LSD)
Date: 13 Dec 1992 04:32:01 GMT
Organization: Sun
NNTP-Posting-Host: positive


Come on, what's all this bullshit, and why do I have to spell
it out?

There is no "lethal dose" of LSD.

There is no "lethal dose" of marijuana.

The only way those two medicants could kill you is if you're
stomped by the police trying to find the evidence.

I don't personally indulge in either of these, but for goodness
sake lets deal with facts not official war-on-intelligence b/s/

    
--
                    no .sig, have got a life instead.
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: njenrigh@mtu.edu (Nick Enright)
Subject: Intenet drug
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 07:22:01 GMT


Khat as you callit 

hmm From what i hear it was produced at good ole mtu and that its spelt Catt

just throwing my 1/2 cent in ]

correct if wrong.

<<njenrigh@mtu.edu>>
"Everybody knows the dice are loaded."

Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black)
Subject: Re: Mescaline from Toluene
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:59:19 GMT
Organization: Eastern Illinois University

In article <1992Dec15.205235.4771@penet.fi> an2509@anon.penet.fi writes:
>A friend of mine who has taken several undergraduate organic chemistry courses
>says that it would be "easy" to synthesize Mescaline from Toluene.  Since I've
>read a couple of times on alt.drugs that analyses of seized synthetic Mescaline
>in fact showed no Mescaline at all, I think that it could hardly be easy.  I'm
>not asking how to do it, but whether there are any serious problems with my
>friend's idea.

    "Serious problems"?  Yup.  Either your friend is a genius, in which
case please post his synthetic proposal here so we can all be in awe of it,
or (more likely) he failed these chemistry courses.
-- 
   ******************************************************************
     Howard Black                             cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu
     Department of Chemistry                  Eastern Illinois Univ. 
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:01:00 -0500 
From: "Bartley R. Troyan" <bt26+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: WOD Advertisement I saw on TV - i.e. LAME
	<168C0F0E3.C599143@mizzou1.missouri.edu>

Sancho Panza writes...

> Hoooowever... there is a more rediculous ad: The scene is a smoking car
> piled up against a tree with two kids "going at it" in the back. The
> ominous narrator says Joey (some nae, I forget which) has been in a
> ftal accident today and he doesn't knw it.. he's also about to get
> AIDS. At some point the mention Marijuana as the means of getting high.
> The clincher is the same as the cartoon "Get high, get stupid, getAIDS."
> How's that for utterly ludicrous?
 
A FOAF once smoked MJ with a girl he was relatively good friends with. Well, in
no time at all they WERE going at it... The girl had previously told the guy
that she didn't want to have sex with anybody, yet while high she was not so
reluctant. Being the nice guy that he was, (as well as a bit more sober
than she at that time), the guy told her what she had said before about
not having sex, and it was not easy to convince her that they shouldn't.
 
The point is, when high you might be a little stupid about remembering
your values, not to mention the dangers of unsafe sex. MJ can enhance
physical sensations, and my FOAF says they still had a lot of fun even
though they didn't actually have sex :-)
 
-Bart
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: chelf@lunatix.uucp (Chad Helfenberger)
Subject: Re: Marijuana Effects
Organization: Lexington Public Access Unix. -KY- (606) 255-9121
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:00:11 GMT
Keywords: Marijuana Effects

In article <1992Dec17.53247.13786@ms.uky.edu> sheila@nx26.mik.uky.edu (shelia c kinney) writes:
>  a question:
>
> Not that I want to know (a friend does :) ), but is it possible 
> to get a better buzz out of marijuana from smoking menthol
> cigarettes?  I've heard, um, my friend has heard that there
> are tiny particles of fiber glass in menthol cigarettes; the 
> "cool" sensation is due in part to the fiber glass cutting 
> into the lung tissue.  Therefore, if this is indeed true, one
> should get a better buzz from marijuana after smoking a menthol
> cigarette.  Is there anyone who has another verification of
> this possibility (I believe "my friend" saw the information
> in an article in High Times)?
>

The active ingredient (besides nicotine) in menthol cig's is mentholyptus 
(sp?).  The same thing can be found in various cough drops.  It's a 
pain-killer.  That's the reason a menthol gives a 'cool' feeling (I wouldn't 
call it cool, I'd call it disgusting, but..).  The reason menthol cigarettes 
are bad for you is because (if you smoke them regularly), they mask the pain 
caused by smoking.  If you're going to smoke cigarettes, just smoke regular 
ones; so you'll know when you're smoking too much.


-- 
Chad Helfenberger
(chelf@lunatix.uucp) 
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Old LSD
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:42:46 GMT

loophead@cyberden.uucp writes:

: are amounts without tolerance, mostly:)  Also, any comments on street 
: doses in the good old days vs. today

Yep. Regardless of all the claims that they are weaker/stronger than in
the 60s - the dosages are in the same range - generally 20 to 100 ug.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,alt.folklore.urban
From: lamontg@stein.u.washington.edu (Lamont Granquist)
Subject: Re: UL: Monumental LSD overdose taken (was: Re: Brands of LSD)
Organization: 'Operation: Mindcrime'
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 12:14:16 GMT

rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
>I read a report where some researchers tried to determine the lethal
>dose of marijuana in mice.  There tongue in cheek conclusion was that
>the lethal dose for humans was 2 pounds of marijuana per pound of
>body weight.  There was a quote to the effect that "if you eat a piece
>of hashish the size of a couch, you will probably die".
>
>Of course, you can also "od" on water.

Right, but there is no *known* lethal dose of marijuana, whereas there
is a known lethal dose (or approximately known lethal dose) of water.

-- 
Lamont Granquist  lamontg@u.washington.edu
  "When dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases."
                                      -- Robert Anton Wilson
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: session@seq.uncwil.edu (Zack C. Sessions)
Subject: Re: WOD Advertisement I saw on TV - i.e. LAME
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 18:54:37 GMT

"Bartley R. Troyan" <bt26+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>A FOAF once smoked MJ with a girl he was relatively good friends with. Well, in
>no time at all they WERE going at it... The girl had previously told the guy
>that she didn't want to have sex with anybody, yet while high she was not so
>reluctant. Being the nice guy that he was, (as well as a bit more sober
>than she at that time), the guy told her what she had said before about
>not having sex, and it was not easy to convince her that they shouldn't.

He was "a bit more sober" than she? Does that meant that he marijuana 
didn't get him as high as it did her or that they were also drinking?
If they had been drinking, your whole point in apparently condemning
marijuana for her "forgetting" her values is moot.


>The point is, when high you might be a little stupid about remembering
>your values, not to mention the dangers of unsafe sex. MJ can enhance
>physical sensations, and my FOAF says they still had a lot of fun even
>though they didn't actually have sex :-)

I don't think that's the point at all. Hardly anyone "forgets" anything
while high. Some people tend to say, "oh well, what the hell" and say
"fuck it" to their values, but they do not forget them. And people
are more likely to ignore their values than to ignore the dangers of
unprotedted sex with a casual partner.

-- 
Zack Sessions
sessions@seq.uncwil.edu
University of North Carolina at Wilmington (Alumnus)
"Good health is merely the slowest form of dying."
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Shrooms
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:33:34 GMT

chelf@lunatix.uucp (Chad Helfenberger) writes:
: In article <1gnp11INN727@menudo.uh.edu> st1qb@Rosie.UH.EDU writes:
: >Wow, I never had to buy shrooms before.  Just always picked them myself.
: >I guess some areas just aren't as lucky....
: >
: >Later....
: >Dave
: >st1qb@jetson.uh.edu
: 
: I'm pretty sure that shrooms don't grow in late fall/winter.

You are misinformed. There are mushrooms that grow, even after the  
weather has turned freezing and there is snow on the ground.  Look
up pleurotus - for example. There are others, known as "snowbank
mushrooms" that fruit near the edge of melting snowbanks.

Bill
From: hughes@gary.enet.dec.com (Gary Hughes - VMS Development)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Subject: Re: The BOOK: Psychedelics Encyclopedia  3rd edition
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:48:44 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Dec15.130156.25121@neptune.inf.ethz.ch>, gaspar@inf.ethz.ch (gaspo) writes...
>In article <9212142322.aa18484@Paris.ics.uci.edu> honig@ruffles.ICS.UCI.EDU (David Honig) writes:
>>
>>is out.  1991.  by Peter Stafford.  420 pages, 200 illustrations, softcover.
> 
>Is it only available from the AHF? or is it generally available on the
>market? if so, ISBN # ?

Yup, I've seen it in a number of stores. I didn't buy it, so I don't have the
ISBN handy. I can probably get if no one posts it in the next week or two.

The reason I did not buy is that I have the 2nd edition. The 3rd ed is a
reprint of the 2nd with a chapter or two of update material added at the
beginning. The new material is primarily concerned with MDMA, which the 2nd did
not discuss in any detail.

If you have the 2nd ed and have been paying attention for the last couple of
years you probably don't need the new edition as well.

I strongly recommend this book. It is very readable and informative. The
pictures of the webs spun by spiders under the influence of various drugs is
worth the price of admission, IMO.

gary