From: exukjb@exu.ericsson.se (ken bell)
Newsgroups: comp.ai.philosophy
Subject: Re: Defining Intelligence
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:06:11 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

In article <14nj5oINN9e2@sam.ksu.ksu.edu> khise@sam.ksu.ksu.edu (Martin Andrew Shobe) writes:
>From: khise@sam.ksu.ksu.edu (Martin Andrew Shobe)
>Subject: Re: Defining Intelligence
>Date: 23 Jul 1992 19:34:00 -0500


>In article <1992Jul23.223809.11316@mp.cs.niu.edu>, rickert@mp.cs.niu.edu (Neil Rickert) writes:
>>In article <14n85cINN9vc@conquest.ksu.ksu.edu> khise@conquest.ksu.ksu.edu (Martin Andrew Shobe) writes: [criticizing my comments]
>>>In article <1992Jul23.151338.28804@mp.cs.niu.edu>, rickert@mp.cs.niu.edu (Neil Rickert) writes:
>>>>In article <2ZmcoB1w164w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> justin.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu writes:
>>>>>        I. Intelligence requires a memory storage/retrieval system.
>>>>
>>>>  Strongly disagree.
>>
>>>But we do have storage/retrieval systems.  Somehow, I have stored that I was
>>>born on June 13, 1969.  What this has to do with intelligence is a different
>>>story.
>>
>>  I still disagree.  We have some kind of memory.  But that memory does
>>not have a store operation, and does not have a retrieve operation.
>>The date of your birth happens to be something that you remember fairly
>>readily.
>>
>>  There are some things you would like to learn, so that you could
>>remember them.  But somehow it never works out.  That doesn't sound like
>>a storage operation.  There are other things that you can remember today,
>>won't be able to remember tomorrow (but it will be at the tip of you
>>tongue, if only the word would come to you), and will easily remember
>>the day after tomorrow.  That doesn't sound like retrieve operation.
>>
>>  If there is no store operation, and no retrieve operation, then it is
>>not a storage/retrieval memory.
>>

>I'll agree that there is no conscious store/retrieve.  But, that does not 
>mean that there is no store/retrieve on another level.

>For example.
>  Many large computer systems today have virtual memory.  At some point, the
>code for the process may not be in main memory.  When the process gets to this
>point, the operating system retrieves the code from storage and places it in 
>main memory.  The process itself never issued a retrieve command.  

>>>>>        II. Intelligence is about problem-solving.
>>>>
>>>>  Strongly disagree.
>>>>
>>>>  Intelligence is all about survival.
>>
>>>So, all else being equal.  If A is stronger than B, A is more intelligent than B?
>>
>>  No.  All else being equal, if A is stronger than B, then A is stronger
>>than B.  I never said that intelligence was synonymous with survival.
>>My point was that the need for survival is the force behind intelligence.
>>That doesn't prevent the need for survival being also the force behind
>>strength.
>>
>>  If man was created by a god in an act of creation, then perhaps it is
>>true that we were given intelligence to solve problems.  But I happen
>>to believe in evolution.  The driving force of evolution is survival,
>>particularly survival of the species.  Simple things that evolved may
>>have done so out of random luck.  But as the complexity increases, the
>>probabilities of random luck diminish.  Anything as complex as intelligence
>>could only have evolved because it aided survival.  The fact that it
>>happens to aid in solving problems is an incidental side effect, and
>>merely reflects that the ability to solve certain problems also has a
>>relation to survival.

>My mistake.

>Martin Shobe


>>
>>  --------------
>>
>>  Yes, I knew I was being controversial.  However I was not merely trying
>>to be the devil's advocate on this.  These are important issues.
>>

Yes, they are. It's evident that human beings, at least, to speak only of 
them, are endowed with much more intelligence than anything that is 
strictly needed for survival; but then, much depends on how broadly the 
notion of 'survival' is being used.  Could I survive fully as a human being 
in absence of all experience of beauty? or all purely contemplative 
appreciation of truth? Umm. I don't know.
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