HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Patt Bromberger)
Subject: accommodation, accessibility
Followup-To: alt.education.disabled,misc.handicap 
Reply-To: patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Patt Bromberger)
Organization: City College of New York - Science Computing Facility
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 18:33:27 GMT

Reposted
From BLIND-L@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU Thu Dec 31 09:05:20 1992
Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 09:02:28 EST
Reply-To: Computer Use by and for the Blind <BLIND-L@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU>
From: "A. Kaniss" <dashiell@NADC.NADC.NAVY.MIL>
Subject:      Re: Talking Books, Electronic Textbooks, Etc.

Why would accommodations have to be made accessible if the products would
not have to be made accessible?  That doesn't make sense.  By the way accessible
cars are being worked on now.  You'll hear about this in the context of
smart highways and work being done to create these.

It's possible and i think probable that products will be required to be
accessible in the future and this a.d.a. is really a bad compromise that
will be fixed.

jude <dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil>
Biology classes and microscopes are accessible to the totally blind.
Though they may benefit from the former there's no benefit to
the latter.

-- 
Patricia Ann Bromberger                      patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu  
	           	        	or	patth@ccnysci.BITNET
"There's no place like home!"  -- Dorothy, "The Wizard of Oz"
Newsgroups: alt.education.disabled
From: patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Patt Bromberger)
Subject: ADA-LAW
Followup-To: alt.education.disabled,blind-l@uafsysb.uark.edu
Reply-To: patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Patt Bromberger)
Organization: City College of New York - Science Computing Facility
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 15:45:11 GMT

Reposted From BLIND-L@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU Wed Dec 30 09:59:52 1992
Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 09:56:58 EST
Reply-To: Computer Use by and for the Blind <BLIND-L@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU>
From: "A. Kaniss" <dashiell@NADC.NADC.NAVY.MIL>
Subject:      Re: Talking Books, Electronic Textbooks, Etc.

Yes, provided it's done up to and including college level courses.
Before the A.D.A. the blind had to adapt to the world now,
the world has to think about adapting too.  Notice the word think.
probably braille texts aren't needed for all courses though since there are
certain subjects in the liberal arts category that have gotten along fine
without it for years (at most spelling lists could suffice) along with
recorded materials.  This works until you combine deafness with blindness.
So I suppose there's some sense in what texas has done until you add
diabetes to deafness and blindness then it falls apart.
It's ironic, the subjects braille would be most helpful in are the hardest
to get brailled because of the lack of transcribers in those areas.

jude <dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil>


-- 
Patricia Ann Bromberger                      patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu  
	           	        	or	patth@ccnysci.BITNET
"There's no place like home!"  -- Dorothy, "The Wizard of Oz"
Newsgroups: alt.education.disabled
From: patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Patt Bromberger)
Subject: Talking Books, Electronic Textbooks, Etc.
Reply-To: BLIND-L@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU
Organization: City College of New York - Science Computing Facility
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 03:49:17 GMT

Reposted
From BLIND-L@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU Wed Dec 30 08:31:00 1992
Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 08:27:18 EST
Reply-To: Computer Use by and for the Blind <BLIND-L@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU>
From: "A. Kaniss" <dashiell@NADC.NADC.NAVY.MIL>
Subject:      Re: Talking Books, Electronic Textbooks, Etc.

There's not that much in translation difficulties since books are
transmitted on compositor's tapes.  These tapes can be converted to
ascii files easily enough since Brian Kernighan worked on a project
with national braille press but they did it in a more difficult way since
as I understand it the translation was from compositor's tapes to grade 2
braille code directly.  That's how the C programming language first edition
made it into braille.  I hope the second edition will come out soon too
but depending on the difficulties it may not be worth it.

jude <dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil>

-- 
Patricia Ann Bromberger                      patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu  
	           	        	or	patth@ccnysci.BITNET
"There's no place like home!"  -- Dorothy, "The Wizard of Oz"
Newsgroups: alt.education.disabled
From: lburns@ucsce.UCSC.EDU (Len Burns)
Newsgroups: alt.education.disabled
Subject: Re: Classes with disabled
Date: 25 Dec 1992 03:31:21 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsce.ucsc.edu


In article <1992Dec19.065718.21873@nmsu.edu> nmcb@dante.nmsu.edu (Yolanda Thompson) writes:
>so let him teach, and you be forthright enough to make your requests
>to him, don't lay an expectation on him to approach you.  This kind of
>attitude is what makes situations uncomfortable.

It seems that there is a balance between all this squabbling.  Certainly an instructor
at the college level is not responsible for anticipating the needs of each
student in a class.  However, it is curteous to make know up front that he or she
is available to discuss any reasonable accommodations that a student may need.  I have
seen to many situations in which professors have absolutely refused students
reasonable accommodations.  I personally know a learning disabled student who approached a professor who happens to be a department head, requesting arrangements
to take an exam.  He responded "I have five of you in this class, you'll just have to make out", and
literally threw the exam across the table at her.  
When I was a student the last quarter of my under graduate studies my last exam was taken
in a staff break room with chaos around me for a number of hours.  By the way
I am totally blind and was working with a reader.  There were a number of
alternatives to how this could have been handled, but he would not discuss it.  
In both these case all that was wanted was a fair shot at taking the exam.  Neither of us expected the professor to pat us on the
head and ask what we needed.  We however expect an equal opportunity.
It is all well and good to encourage personal responsibility, a theme I spend
a great deal of time driving home to persons with disabilities, but the reality is that a disability is a disability and
there are circumstances under which accommodations are both necessary and fair.  When I hear some one deny this
I often wonder how acceptable he or she find his or her disability.  Does this person
have a strong dislike for what dannot be changed about his/herself?  I will not speculate about this in responding to this,
but one must wonder.

Newsgroups: alt.education.disabled
From: patth@panix.com (Patt Bromberger)
Subject: Re: Classes with disabled
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 15:03:47 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <1992Dec27.023852.17926@nmsu.edu> nmcb@dante.nmsu.edu (Yolanda Thompson) writes:
> [deleted]
>
>  I'm thrilled to see activity on this group  at last, but aren't
>there any other individuals with disabilities out there who have a lot
>to say about this topic, or are blind students the only ones with
>needs for alternative methods in school?? :))
> [      ]

There are other mailing lists:  New Pathways to a Degree, BLIND-L
Disability Research and, of course, the misc.handicap newsgroup which
contains a lot of information from FidoNET users.

Probably the reason we don't see many people posting to this newsgroup
is because not all Usenet/Internet sites get the alt groups.

Some of the challenged people I know have taken distance education
courses via computer; several professors I am acquainted with teach
these courses - computer mediated communication/education dissolves
the barriers you talk about with respect to student/professor
interaction in the classroom.  CMC also makes handicaps invisible :-)




-- 
Patricia Ann Bromberger                            patth@panix.com
This quote borrowed from: Gary.Petraccaro@f12.n2610.z1.fidonet.org 
... "It matters not so much what you sing, but why..." J.S. Bach

Newsgroups: alt.education.disabled,misc.handicapped
From: patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Patt Bromberger)
Subject: Electronic Access to the President
Followup-To: alt.education.disabled,misc.handicap
Reply-To: alt.education.disabled,misc.handicap
Organization: City College of New York - Science Computing Facility
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 16:52:43 GMT

Reposted from alt.activism
From: jak@panix.com (Jack Krueger)
Subject: If you didn't see this.(President-elect)
Date: 30 Dec 92 15:31:52 GMT
Organization: Panix, NYC

 From: Clinton-HQ@Campaign92.Org (Clinton/Gore '92)
 Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
 Date: 19 Dec 1992 21:06:37 -0500
 Newsgroups: alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.activism
 Subject: CLINTON: Season's Greetings & Best Wishes for a Happy New Year

 Season's Greetings and Best Wishes for a Happy New Year!

 Thank you for your messages to the Office of the President-elect.
 This mailbox will be unattended from December 22, 1992 until January 4th,
 1993.  Please try again after January 4th.  If you prefer, you may send
 hardcopy messages to the address below:

    The U. S. Mail address for the Clinton/Gore Transition Team is:

         Office of the President-Elect
         Atkins Building
         105 West Capital Street,  Suite 400
         Little Rock,  Arkansas   72201

         Telephone: (501) 374-3322


 Regards,
 Jock Gill
 Public Access Email
 Office of the President-Elect
 75300.3115@compuserve.com
|
|
|
 Distribution:
   Clinton Volunteers >internet:clinton-volunteers@campaign92.org
   Clinton News >internet:c-news-distr@campaign92.org
   Clinton Economy >internet:clinton-economy-distr@campaign92.org
   Clinton Foreign >internet:c-foreign-distr@campaign92.org


-- 
Patricia Ann Bromberger                      patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu  
	           	        	or	patth@ccnysci.BITNET
"There's no place like home!"  -- Dorothy, "The Wizard of Oz"
Newsgroups: alt.education.disabled
From: patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Patt Bromberger)
Subject: Talking Books, Electronic Textbooks, Etc.
Followup-To: blind-l@uafsysb.uark.edu
Summary: publishing, ADA Laws
Reply-To: blind-l@uafsysb.uark.edu
Organization: City College of New York - Science Computing Facility
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 04:00:57 GMT

Reposted
From BLIND-L@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU Wed Dec 30 14:10:00 1992
Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 14:05:44 EST
Reply-To: Computer Use by and for the Blind <BLIND-L@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU>
From: "A. Kaniss" <dashiell@NADC.NADC.NAVY.MIL>
Subject:      Re: Talking Books, Electronic Textbooks, Etc.

are publishers businesses?
I've never heard of one that did it without being some kind of business.
Businesses are required to accommodate on not only accessability but also
services as well if they provide those services to the public.
That was one of those general provisions in the a.d.a. that can and will
be used to cover alot of past sins.  Braille or e-text will become
more available in the future.  Even without the a.d.a. this will happen.
The a.d.a. is an admission that the economy is hurting enough that it will
be more profitable for government to have blind people working in the future
 rather
than collecting welfare.  If the blind cannot be integrated effectively into the
information age they're not going to collect enough to pay taxes on to a
very large degree and if this happens the costs will be very high.
First in terms of uncollectable taxes to about 5 levels of government,
second to the businesses who are now required to employ workers that are
at best marginally productive,
third to the businesses because the blind will eventually not go to be
employed and all that money was spent on accommodations, and
fourth to the blind community and handicapped community in general when
they realize another piece of legislation has bit the dust and they realize
what the american indians have known for a long time that the government's
laws are worth as much as its money after adjusting for inflation.
This is one effort many will find out they cannot afford to mess up because
good faith and belief are both running out for some and have run out for
others in the past.  Those others who are collecting welfare may not be
doing it because they're lazy but because they've given up on what passes
for the system.  That's something that had best be found out by agencies and
 acted on
accordingly in the near future.  There's alot of psychological problems
out there though that will have to be taken care of before anyone can
talk about work seriously though now and this is a residual of past
performance or lack thereof by the system and other participants.

jude <dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil>



-- 
Patricia Ann Bromberger                      patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu  
	           	        	or	patth@ccnysci.BITNET
"There's no place like home!"  -- Dorothy, "The Wizard of Oz"
Newsgroups: alt.education.disabled
From: nrcgsh@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Courts and Disability : Access to Education
Followup-To: alt.education.disabled,misc.handicap
Reply-To: nrcgsh@ritvax.isc.rit.edu,alt.education.disabled
Organization: City College of New York - Science Computing Facility
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 16:46:48 GMT

Reposted from EASI mailing list
Subject: Courts and disability access to ed
Date: 30 Dec 92 15:30:19 GMT
Reply-To: NRCGSH@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Norm Coombs)


On this morning's news on the radio, I heard an item about a
school, think it was a proprietry school maybe in Calif. which
helped prepare people to take some important exam.  It was sued by
a hearing impaired student because it wouldn't provide materials in
an accessible format.  The court made some decision requiring it to
provide interpretting services.

I'm not sure if the case was filed under ADA or which legislation.
But, it may be one that is worth our knowing about in EASI.

If anyone picked up better info than I, would you send it back to
the list as well as to me?

Norman Coombs


-- 
Patricia Ann Bromberger                      patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu  
	           	        	or	patth@ccnysci.BITNET
"There's no place like home!"  -- Dorothy, "The Wizard of Oz"
Newsgroups: alt.education.disabled
From: patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Patt Bromberger)
Subject: Course Development
Followup-To: alt.education.disabled,misc.handicap 
Reply-To: rbanks@uwstout.edu,alt.education.disabled,misc.handicap 
Organization: City College of New York - Science Computing Facility
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 16:12:19 GMT

Reposted From misc.handicap & DISRES-L@RYERSON.BITNET
Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 15:26:14 GMT
Reply-To: Disability Research List <DISRES-L@RYERSON.BITNET>
Subject:      Information Please...

Hello Everyone

First, I would like to wish all of you a blessed
holiday season.

I would like some help from you.  I have taken an assistantship
with a professor Voc Rehab here at Stout.  The purpose of the
position is to develop a computer assisted, self-paced ADA
course for undergraduates.

I have a great deal of information about the law and
regulations.  I need help in the area of case law.  The who,
what, where and when of how the law has been tested would be
essential to such a course.

I don't know that other here would be interested in this query,
so you could write me personally at the addresses above or post
here.

Thank you all in advance.

Dick Banks
_________________________________________________________________

Dick Banks                                 A          TTTTTTTTT
Adaptive Technologist                     A A             T
Library Learning Center                  A   A            T
University of Wisconsin-Stout           AAAAAAA           T
INTERNET  rbanks@uwstout.edu           A       A          T
BITNET    rbanks@uwstout              A         A         T

Dedicated to the empowerment of the special needs
population through the use of Adaptive Technology.
_________________________________________________________________



-- 
Patricia Ann Bromberger                      patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu  
	           	        	or	patth@ccnysci.BITNET
"There's no place like home!"  -- Dorothy, "The Wizard of Oz"
Newsgroups: alt.education.disabled
From: patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Patt Bromberger)
Subject: Classes: Facilitating equal access and equal opportunity
Followup-To: alt.education.disabled,blind-l@uafsysb.uark.edu
Reply-To: biderman@utcs.utoronto.ca,alt.education.disabled
Organization: City College of New York - Science Computing Facility
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 16:15:41 GMT

Reposted From BLIND-L@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU Sat Jan  2 21:20:15 1993
Date:         Sat, 2 Jan 1993 01:21:09 EST
Reply-To: Computer Use by and for the Blind <BLIND-L@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Classes involving the disabled

It's late, and I can't tell from the very very long list of mail headers
if the response to Shub was yours.  If not, I apologize.

I think Shub raises an important issue that is often overlooked because
we are all being too "kind" and sensitive and "liberal" about handicaps.
We sometimes may overcompensate in trying to be "fair" and as a result
become "unfair" (to all).

The aim is to simply facilitate equal access, and equal opportunities.
We can, as you imply, look at what we may be doing that makes it difficult
 or even impossible for disabled persons to have that equal access.  In the
process of fixing the problem we may often find ourselves created a more
accessible environment for everyone (disabled and not).

======================================================================
|  Beverly Biderman, Planning Analyst,   |  215 Huron St. 4th Floor, |
|  University of Toronto,                |  Toronto M5S 1A1          |
|  BIDERMAN@vm.utcs.utoronto.ca          |  Canada                   |
======================================================================

-- 
Patricia Ann Bromberger                      patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu  
	           	        	or	patth@ccnysci.BITNET
"There's no place like home!"  -- Dorothy, "The Wizard of Oz"
Newsgroups: alt.education.disabled
From: CCANACW@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL
Subject: New List : Multiple Sclerosis
Followup-To: alt.education.disabled,misc.handicap 
Reply-To: CCANACW@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL
Organization: City College of New York - Science Computing Facility
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 16:44:16 GMT

Reposted from  misc.handicap:
Date: 30 Dec 92 15:29:29 GMT
Reply-To: CCANACW@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL (Chanoch Weil)
Organization: Technion - Israel Institute of Technology, Taub Computer Centre


I feel the need for a new list/newsgroup, which will serve as a forum for
multiple sclerosis (MS) patients and their families, as well as for
anyone (e.g doctors, nurses, therapists) who cares about the subject.
The scope of the suggested list should cover all concerns of people
involved with MS.

If you would be interested in such list, please e-mail to me, maybe
indicating how far you expect to get involved with it. I'll later
summarize to this newsgroup.

|--------------------------|--------------------------------------------|
| Chanoch Weil             |  Fax      : 972-4-236212                   |
| User Support Group       |  Bitnet   : ccanacw@TECHNION               |
| The Computer Centre      |  TCP/IP   : ccanacw@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL|
| Technion, Haifa 32000    |                                            |
| Israel                   |                                            |
|--------------------------|--------------------------------------------|




-- 
Patricia Ann Bromberger                      patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu  
	           	        	or	patth@ccnysci.BITNET
"There's no place like home!"  -- Dorothy, "The Wizard of Oz"
Newsgroups: alt.education.disabled
From: patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Patt Bromberger)
Subject: accessibility requirements : Texas
Followup-To: alt.education.disabled,blind-l@uafsysb.uark.edu
Reply-To: patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Patt Bromberger)
Organization: City College of New York - Science Computing Facility
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 15:43:38 GMT

Reposted From BLIND-L@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU Wed Dec 30 09:40:18 1992
Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 09:36:01 LCL
Reply-To: Computer Use by and for the Blind <BLIND-L@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU>
From: "John D. Brule" <JDBRULE@SUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Talking Books, Electronic Textbooks, Etc.

My understanding is that the state of Texas requires that all texts
used in public school education must be made available in electronic
format.  If that is the case, then brailled preparation should be
straightforward, though still requiring some organization.
Wouldn't it make sense to try to lobby for such a requirement
in each state?



-- 
Patricia Ann Bromberger                      patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu  
	           	        	or	patth@ccnysci.BITNET
"There's no place like home!"  -- Dorothy, "The Wizard of Oz"
Newsgroups: alt.education.disabled
From: patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Patt Bromberger)
Subject: Software evaluationi : call for interest
Followup-To: alt.education.disabled,misc.handicap 
Reply-To: rhgattis@uccs.colorado.edu
Organization: City College of New York - Science Computing Facility
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 16:38:23 GMT

Respoted from misc.handicap:
From: uccs.edu!rhgattis@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Master Bob)
Subject: Call for Interest in Software Field Evaluation
Date: 30 Dec 92 15:26:40 GMT


Call for Interest:

Meeting the Challenge, Inc. is interested in hearing from persons
and institutions who would be willing to participate in a field
evaluation of software developed for an NSF-sponsored project. The
evaluation would be in the Fall of 1993, from about August 93
through Nov 1993.

The evaluation would involve hosting a beta version of our software
on a 386 class PC, running Windows, and using the system to
identify appropriate accommodations for students with
disabilities.  While the evaluation plan is not designed yet, we
expect to gather information from the participants on the value of
the system in identifying appropriate accommodations in a variety
of situations.

We are most interested in gathering a diverse group of evaluators
from a wide spectrum of educational institutions.  For example, in
the current project, we are working with a 2 year community college
and a four year state university in our local area.  What we are
seeking is to expand the evaluation group to include:

- persons who are very familiar (expert !?) in determining the needs of
students with disabilities and identifying appropriate
accommodations (both assistive technology and other forms of
accommodations).

- persons who are unfamiliar with determining the needs of students with
disabilities and identifying accommodations, but end up doing it anyway.

- educational institutions with a strong science and engineering curriculum
who deal with issues of providing computer access to students with
disabilities.

We are contacting some institutions directly, ones that we know fit these
criteria to some extent.  If you are interested in becoming a test site or
simply would like more information about this project, please send email
to me at the following address:

        rhgattis@uccs.colorado.edu


-- 
Patricia Ann Bromberger                      patth@sci.ccny.cuny.edu  
	           	        	or	patth@ccnysci.BITNET
"There's no place like home!"  -- Dorothy, "The Wizard of Oz"
Newsgroups: alt.education.disabled