From: aref@Tehran.Stanford.EDU (Modda'iyeh har hAzer va Vakileh har ghAyeb)
Subject: Re: Is there an interpreter in the house?
Organization: VezArateh Omooreh khArejeh 
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 02:15:06 GMT

In article <C1J33w.LII@news.cso.uiuc.edu> 
yaser@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Ala) writes:

>I do not think so.
>Iran's culture is obviously VERY different than this culture.
>While dating and casual relationships is widely accepted here,
>A

Of course it is different. Identical twins are different. Brothers
and sisters are different. Extrapolate that to millions of people
and societies and cultures and of course they are different. BUT
being different does not imply better or worse. It is a very
subjective call. One can chose for him/herself the culture/methods/etc.
that one considers best. 

We can NOT claim that "my way is necessarily the best way"  - BUT
we can surely claim "my way is the best way FOR ME". 

Is the difference clear?

And again, I am not arguing about dating and casual relationships
versus marriage only. I am harping about the "Iranian girl too good
for American boy" part. Please distinguish the two. 


>There is no problem in people of the opposite sex to know each other.
>How eles they can get married?  I did not oppose to that.
>My problem is in casual sexual relationships.  For someone to constantly
>in search of a new partner.  I do not think this have ever been widespread
>in Iran.

Ahhh - we are switching topics. Again, this is not what I am writing
about. Although we all know that all sorts of things happen in Iran
too, maybe not as widespread as in a typical Western society. Let's
not kid ourselves. 


>I did not say they are forced by someone to get married.

What did you mean then? You wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>After overusing their
>>sexual powers and getting tired of chasing girls, they are usually forced
>>into entering a mariage that does not usually last very long.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who or what *forces* them? Forcing a family member into marriage is
on the more glorious aspects of Iranian culture; again, ask any
Grandmother.

>>I am not upset about your criticism of this culture, if one cares to
>>characterize that as a criticism. But your "criticism" is based on
>>the "Iranian culture is superior" theme - which is invalid in my
>>opinion. And about your rights to express your ideas:
>>You sure do, regardless of your background. No one is arguing
>>against that.
>
>It is not only invalid in your opinion.  Look around.
>This is exactly the problem I am talking about.  Iraninas
>are not aware of their caultural values and that is why they are submitting
>to this culture.

Again a generalization. Do you know every single Iranian in this
society to know what they are doing and or are up to? There are all
sorts of people. A very wide spectrum of them. We simply can NOT
generalize. For every generalized claim, there is a counter example
which falsifies the claim. 

Let me share a more personal experience:

I moved to California almost 2 years ago from a state where there
are a small number of Iranians. Being in a small community as such,
you don't see much variety, especially when almost everyone is
in College and priorities are exams and projects and finals.
We always used to hear about how *awful* Iranians in California
are and how they do this and that. People used to say as a joke:
"Irooni az cAliforniA didi, AghA bezan beh chAk!" 
Moving here, with such a mentality, I was preparing myself to steer
clear of all Iranians and protect myself from the "bad" images
presented. As it turns out, since the numbers are high, you  can
virtually find *any and every* sort of Iranian personality. Culturally
aware or unaware, willing to date or marriage only, wears shorts or
does not wear short-sleeve shirts, tall or short, dark or light, 
uneducated or educated, with an identity or without an identity, 
haloo or zebel, bAhAl or bihAl, motadayyen or lA-maz-hab, zaneh irooni
mikhAd or zaneh AmrikAii mikhAd, shohareh Irooni mikhAd or shohareh
AmrikAii mikhad (or aslan shohar nemikhAd), family-oriented or
nobody-oriented, pooldAr or bi-pool, dozd or amin, geereen cArt
dAreh or nadAreh, citizen hast yA nist, ...... and god
only knows what else. Morale of the story: Can't generalize.

We do seem to notice the bad and as you put it "culturally 
submissive" though. It is hard to "see" those who have not
given up all of their "Iranian-ness". It is very easy to see
those who have and act accordingly. They are more visible. Do
you see what I mean? On the street you don't notice the people
who are dressed as much. You will definitely notice the 
naked guy with a red hat streaking down the alley though. 


>>>Without any doubt Iranian culture is way superior to theAmerican culture
>>>in many respects among which is the way we look at the world, our
>>>expectation from life, the way we treat our family, our elderly, the
>>>way we eat, what we eat, the way we socialize, the way we celebrate
>>>our hollidays and etc.
>
>>In my opinion: nonesense. There are good and bad aspects to both cultures.
>>Of course "good" and "bad" is probably defined by every person for
>>themselves. In many apsects Iranian culture is superior to American
>>culture and in many aspects it is inferior to American culture. BTW,
>>what are Iranian culture and American culture? Can you give definitions?
>
>If you cannot figure this one out yourself then my explanations are not going to
>help either.

Guess not.


>There is nothingwrong with learning from Americans.  That is why
>a large number of Iranians here for.  What is wrong is loosing
>ones identity.  I certainly try my best to keep mine.

Good for you. Now how can you generalize about all the Iranians here
where at least we know we have one person (you) who is not losing
his identity? What makes you the only person as such?

>>>Let's try to be IRANI they way Iranians have always been not they way
>>>we are told to be.
>
>>PLEASE tell us how that is. How can one be such an IRANI? I don't
>>recollect anyone telling me how to be IRANI. Until now, of course.
>
>Are you suggesting that nothing is wrong?
>If that is the case then our discussion is pointless.

Depends on your (or my) perspective. I hate kalleh pAcheh. Some
people love it. I don't like my family to choose for me.  Some
people would rather let the family decide for them. I really 
don't care about the nationality of a friend. Some people do.
I think the heart and the mind is important. Some think the
bank account and job and "bAbAsh kiyeh" is important. 

Who is to say I who is wrong and who is right? 

Aref



Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian