From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Subject: Loving the disobedient was (Re: 20/20 and Spanking)
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 02:14:23 GMT

In article <119450003@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com> kperdue@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com (Karla Perdue) writes:
>
>	[sections irrelevant to my follow-up deleted]
>
> 2. There are many other aspects of parenting that can have negative
>    consequences for children.  One that is particularly important to me is
>    the ability of the parent to communicate acceptance and appreciation for
>    the child's own feelings and choices, as being right for the child even
>    if contrary to what the parents would want for themselves.  Too often a
>    parent can be accepting when a child expresses ideas/feelings that are
>    the same as the parent's, but show disapproval when the ideas/feelings
>    are different.  My father was this way in spades!
>
>So for me spanking just confirmed the messge of strong disapproval of
>ideas/feelings different from my parents'; that message was that I was not
>acceptable as *I* was/wanted to be, but only acceptable if I did what was
>demanded of me by others.  Thus spanking singificantly contributed to my
>feeling that my parents did not love and accept ME for who I was but only as
>the "good girl" image of what they wanted me to be.  It did not by itself
>cause this feeling but it reinforced the other messages; especially given
>the most common REASONS for spanking (talking back, refusing to do what they
>wanted me to).  Together they build a significant problem for me that I am
>only now solving as an adult and I have a lot of anger at my parents for
>this.

I think Karla has a very high ideal here, but I'm not sure it is either 
possible nor desireable to achieve it.  Do we really want to be sending our
children "I love you just as you are" message to our children when they
are busy pummeling their siblings, destroying the furniture, running into
traffic, etc.?  

Clearly the idea is that we must separate the child from the child's behavior
and let the child know that it is her behavior, not her being, that is in
question here.  But I don't think that sending positive message about who
you are is appropriate at these times in the same way that negative message
about your behavior is.  The positive messages must come at times when your
child really is being "a good girl".  

If you have strong feelings and values and your child chooses to adopt behavior
that violates these feelings, will you really be able to say, "Hey, I really
love you for your independent spirit?"  For example:  let's say that your
rebellious peer following 13 YO decides to join a white supremecist group.
Think about it for a moment.  How can you show that you detest everything
your 13 YO is currently standing for while still loving her?  I imagine this
is impossible.  Because no way that you attack her beliefs will be interpreted
by her as an attack of anything but herself.  

I believe that part of parenting involves disapproval of our children when
they behave in disapproved of ways.  Their self esteem must come from a firm
foundation of support and I believe that must be laid in the early years
when we get really tired of putting our lives "on hold" for our children.  But
I also believe if we take the time THEN to establish self esteem and a feeling
of love and acceptance, it will weather the turbulence of the years that may
come when you, as a parent, simply cannot approve of your child's choices.

>
>                                           .....  Also, I hope that I can
>help my daughter grow without developing the anger that I have toward my
>parents.
>

Never developing that anger?  I think that is not only unreasonable, but
unhealthy.  Because this anger is a very important catalyst for the child
to develop the independence needed to separate.  It is FAR easier to
separate from someone when you are angry with them than when you love them
dearly.

What I hope for my children is that I am able to instill in them the pattern
of forgiveness so their anger will be momentary and not destroy our relationship
as they reach adulthood.  I hope one day that they can say as I have been
able to with my Mom, "Wow, she wasn't perfect, but she did the best she could
under the circumstances.  I hope I can do as well."

We need our children to learn to forgive us for not being perfect just as we
are able to forgive them.  And I see a whole lot of people on this net who
need to learn to forgive their parents just as they hope their children will
forgive them.  

Have those of you who still carry a grudge against your parents for things
other than abuse or neglect tried to put yourself in their shoes at your
age?  What was their life like when you were your children's ages?   What
fears motivated them?  What anger did they feel toward their parents?  What
did the world FEEL like then.  I highly recommend it as an excersise in
perspective.

-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake