From: labach@acs.ucalgary.ca (Terence Michael Labach)
Subject: Re: zundel
Originator: labach@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 13:41:35 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: The Bobby Jurasin Fan Club

In article <1992Sep5.709.6593@dosgate> "steve hartwell" <steve.hartwell@canrem.com> writes:
> TM>In article <1992Sep1.709.6541@dosgate> <steve.hartwell@canrem.com> writes:
> 
> TM>> I say - to protect Freedom of Speech, and Democracy, rule in
> TM>favour > of the appealer - Zundel - based on his appeal.
> TM>> Then take 'em all out and shoot the sons of bitches.
> 
> TM>Funny, that's the sort of thing a Nazi would say about his
> TM>opponents. And you really think you're taking the moral high road?
> TM>Respecting freedom of speech is a long way from allowing Canada to
> TM>be run by Nazis.  And a lying jackass like Zundel is hardly a
> TM>threat to the security of the country.
> 
> with all due respect to your point,
> with which I do agree, in the sense that what I said does sound like
> the same thing as what a Nazi would say,
> and believe that in my words I did say as much,
> and, also, that it is a very difficult road we have to follow,
> without getting lost,
> 
> I'm afraid that I cannot agree that wanting to dispatch people like
> Zundel makes me the same thing as them at all.
> 
> The Nurembourg Trials, found those Nazis, and Nzism, guilty of
> henious crimes against humanity, almost fifty years ago. And
> dispatched quite a few. Yet, we are again being attacked by
> their potentials.

What crime has Zundel committed, besides saying not-so-nice things and
being a moron?

> After it's history, a self-proclaimed Nazi must surely be legally
> recognized as worse than a murderer. And, should be tried, and if
> found guilty of being a Nazi, should be likewise punished, at least
> to the same degree as a murderer, which in Canada does not carry
> the death penalty anymore. For something worse than a murderer,
> perhaps we could have the death penalty.
> We do not allow murderers to roam free, and we usually shot mad dogs.

I think you're going to do a better job of showing why believing in Nazi
ideology is equivalent to murder.  If Zundel were conspiring to kill,
assault, or otherwise harm Jews or anti-fascists or others, then I'd be
glad to have him thrown in jail.  But believing something different than
most people, no matter how obnoxious, can not be against the law in a
reasonable society.  If we throw Zundel in jail, we'd better throw all
the Catholics in there for sponsoring the Inquisition.

Are you saying that Zundel is a murderer?  (I'm not inclined to disagree
with you on the mmad dog remark...)

> The Toronto Star is celebrating it's 100th year during 92.
> They've just recently been re-printing articles from the 1930's.
> Some are about Hitler and the Nazis.
> 
> And sound almost exactly like your comments and mine being bantyed
> back and forth, while those Nazis, expecting at any moment to get
> slapped down, did not, and thereby concluded that the general
> populous agreed with them, which only encouraged them to go ever
> further down their murderous trails.

But as I have written on other occasions on the net, I don't believe
that the Nazis then should have been allowed to continue their land
grab.  I think that we could have stopped Fascism in Spain and Ethiopia
and the Rhineland.  (Thank you, Mackenzie King and your Nazi-loving
chums) There is a big difference between supporting freedom of speech
and the limp-wristed appeasement of the West in the 1930s.  But a few
nuts in hard hats is not the same as an aggressive, expansionist
government.

> To ignore them now, as you suggest, is only to encourage them to do
> it all over again. And mark me, it can happen here.

Of course, I mever suggested ignoring Zundel.  As I wrote in Message-ID:
<LABACH.92Sep3100704@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca> 

 > Zundel is dangerous and a liar, and we should take every opportunity to
 > explain why he's wrong and demonstrate that his statements come not from
 > the historical record but from his attempt to rewrite history.  But let
 > the government decide what may and may not even be discussed and we have
 > the framework for dictatorship.

- terry -
======================================================================
"Nothing good can ever come of censorship.  Cutting one person's tongue
 will not give another person a voice, but it turns the silencer into a
 dictator."
 - Alberto Manguel
Newsgroups: can.general,soc.culture.canada