HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nrswart@phonon.waterloo.edu (Nicholas R. Swart)
Subject: Re: IPS:South Africa, U.N. Security Council
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:49:16 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.222859.14322@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> philip@ziggy.stanford.edu (Philip Machanick) writes:
>In article <Brr92o.531@acsu.buffalo.edu> osele@acsu.buffalo.edu (itiakorit j  
>osele) writes:
>> In article <BrpttE.G2q@news.cso.uiuc.edu> vamg6792@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Vincent  
>A Mazzarella) writes:
>>>As if Zimbabwe or other nearby African countries (cf. other articles in
>>>this group on Malawi, e.g.) are particularly democratic !!  Ha Ha Ha
>> Cheap shot; being cynical eh.
>> 
>Zimbabwe has its problems but I would not consider it _less_ democratic than  
>SA.

Oh and I suppose you feel that Mugabe is a more honest man than De Klerk? You
obviously don't know too many people living in Zimbabwe.

>Same for Zambia. Botswana and Namibia are 2 other countries in the region  
>with good records.

Zambia with good records??? You have a very twisted view of the word
democracy.

>Malawi - definitely a bad case - and only now receiving the  
>criticism it has long deserved. Used to be considered "friend of the west"  
>during the Cold War.

Too bad it recieves only 0.1% of the criticism S.A. does. 

>Mozambique and Angola are still on the way to democracy  
>with a long way to go but still the trend is that way. As far as this trend  
>goes SA is neither the best nor the worst.

Weak attempt to try and redeem yourself.

>--
>Philip Machanick
>philip@pescadero.stanford.edu
From: tysoj@solb1.essex.ac.uk (Tyson J R)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Kaatje Kekkelbek
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:35:34 GMT
Reply-To: tysoj@essex.ac.uk (Tyson J R)
Organization: University of Essex, Colchester, UK

Hello People,

Can anyone out there in .za, or for that matter .anywhere help
me out?  I want to get hold of a copy of the full text of
_Kaatje Kekkelbek or Life among the Hottentots_.

Here is what Raidt in _Afrikaans en sy europese verleden_ has to
say about it:

Op 5 November 1938 is in Grahamstad "Kaatje Kekkelbek; or, Life
among the Hottentots" 'n deels Afrikaanse, deels Engelse varie'te'=
stuk met geweldige sukses op die planke gebring.  Dit is geskryf deur
Andrew Geddes Bain en in 1846 het dit in die Kaapstadse blad Sam
Sly's African Journal onder dei skuilnaam "Klip Springer" verskyn.

[On the 5th November 1938 "Kaatje Kekkelbek; or Life among the
Hottentots", a variety piece partly in Afrikaans partly in English, was
staged with great success.  It was written by Andrew Geddes Bain and in
1848 appeared in the Cape Town paper Sam Sly's African Journal under
the nom-de-plume "Klip Springer".]

Although he gives references to academic treatments of the language of
the piece, he does not give any indication of an edition of the straight
text.

If anyone knows of an edition, preferably of course in print, please
e-mail me either at:

tysoj@essex.ac.uk
or
jim@et.kuleuven.ac.be

Thanks in advance.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: ccml@hippo.ru.ac.za (Mike Lawrie)
Subject: Re: Conscription of Whites into the SADF
Keywords: Apartheid is over? fools day ?
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 18:32:36 GMT

In <apj.62.712094185@cs.sun.ac.za> apj@cs.sun.ac.za (Andries Dippenaar) writes:
>The Defence Act has this curious feature in that within the act the persons 
>subject to it, are defined, ie. white male South Africans.  (It is 
>actually quite amusing (in a sense) to read the definition:  Something in 
>the order of `if you look white and are considered white by others, you are 
>taken to be white by the act')  Most other legislation referred to the 
>repealed race classification laws, but the conscription laws do not.

With race classification repealed, how is "white" defined such that the
courts could uphold this type of definition? I'm really curious indeed,
it is like having a _legal_ definition of "Afro-American" - does such a
definition exist?


> Since 
>no legislation yet exists that forbid discrimination on the basis of colour, 
>this law still stands firm.  Attempts are being made at this moment to 
>challenge the validity of the call-up system in court.

I hope that this newsgroup will be kept informed as to the progress of
such a challenge. Did not the SADF simply back down about a year ago
when a large percentage of conscripts simply failed to turn up? Looks to
me as if the SADF were not willing to risk having a court rule against
this continued racial discrimination, because of the precedent that this
would create.

Mike
-- 
Mike Lawrie                                    <ccml@hippo.ru.ac.za>
Director, Computing Services                   ph +27 461 22023 x 279
Rhodes University, Drostdy Rd                  fx +27 461 25049
South Africa
From: laing@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Peter Laing)
Subject: Re: A Joke
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 15:25:51 GMT

In article <BrsM28.B5u@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, kautaj@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (john kauta) writes:
> In article <1992Jul21.151932.29183@ousrvr.oulu.fi> peb@ee.oulu.fi (piotr brudlo) writes:
> >
> >The Top of Racizm:
> >
> >To drink
> >
> >    "Black & White"
> >
> >from two separate glasses
> 
> Years ago, there was this cartoon (I think it was in the Readers Digest):
> 
> Scene: A South African Bar. Four dudes at the counter - a white, a black,
>        a "coloured" and an Indian.
> 
> 
> The whitey orders the drinks: [of course! He has the money!]
> 
> "Give me one *white* horse, one *black* label, one *brown* sherry and one
> *Indian* tonic"
> 
> [IN THAT ORDER]

  You know, at the time this joke was published, it is very likely that
  it would have been illegal for those four guys to stand at the same 
  bar counter and order/drink a beer (or whatever) together. There were
  even separate bottle store/off-sales where non-whites would have to 
  go to buy alchohol.

   Cheers, 
           Peter.

> 
> :-) :-) :-)....Me likes that...me does...
> 
> J.K.
Subject: Re: IPS:Zimbabwe, opposition in disarrary as
Organization: Indexed; Access: Random.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:59:02 +0000

In article <9207281717.AA06280@cdp.igc.org> the IPS wrote:

> ...                      former rebel rhodesian prime
> minister ian smith, ndabaningi sithole, a co-founder with
> president mugabe of the ruling zanu-pf 

Sithole founded ZANU (Zimbabwe African National Union), but has never
had any connection with ZANU-PF.

ZANU-PF (ZANU Patriotic Front) was formed when Mugabe, dissatisfied with
the conduct of the war of liberation, split away from the original ZANU
and took his supporters with him. He formed an alliance, the Patriotic
Front, with Joshua Nkomo's PF-ZAPU (Zimbabwe African People's Union),
which lasted until the end of the Chimurenga in 1979.

Although ZANU-PF and PF-ZAPU have now merged under the name ZANU-PF, the
vestigial remains of Sithole's original ZANU still exist independently.
I'm not sure if they still have any MPs : anyone know ?

Nick Leverton
    ______________________________________________________________________
   <nleverton@cix.compulink.co.uk>            <leveret@warren.demon.co.uk>
   X400: I=NJ; S=Leverton; OU=mdn0402; O=ICL; PRMD=ICL; ADMD=Gold 400; C=GB
From: cscoging@unpcs1.cs.unp.ac.za (Chris Scogings)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: The point... why turn Gavin African?
Date: 24 Jul 92 12:52:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: unpcs1.cscoging.58
Organization: University of Natal (Pietermaritzburg)

mokaba@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:

>because of the rather unexpected responses that I have been getting both 
>on the E-mail an on the net, I have decided to move straight to the point
>my strory. For those that followed my argument I have presented the typical
>if not the eception condition of an african university student and the 
>extent to which by being contiously short changed by the government as 
>an individual and overtaxed as a group

I have enjoyed your story very much.  I hope that it is isn't finished 
because I am most interested in how the black Gavan gets to a university in 
the USA. 

>The rather romantic idea espoused by a lot of writers in this group that 
>the universities that have catered for the africans be closed is a pie
>in the sky... we need more and better institution not the elimination of
>resources...

Do you know that it is ANC policy to cut budgets to all universities by 
about 50% if (or when) they become the new govt of South Africa?

>I am simply interest in Free South Africa, equity and Justice....
>is that too much to ask?
>Madimetja Mokaba

And when there is equity and justice for all South Africans, will you come 
home or will you still be living in the USA?

Chris
From: Eric_S_Klien@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Electronic Matchmaker
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 21:12:40 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

Women, I am about to launch a free electronic matching service on 
Usenet.  Unfortunately, more guys than gals have expressed an 
interest so far.  If you would like to see the fourth draft of my 
questionnaire so we can alter it to also fit women's needs as well as 
men's, either send me mail or look at the copy I posted in 
alt.personals.
 
This service is serious and I already have 119 men and 86 women signed
up so far.  The site of the service has already been selected and
programmers are being lined up for the construction of the listserver.
 
I should point out that this questionnaire really, really, really, 
needs some more input on CULTURES.  I need some questions to make sure
that matches are compatible culturally.
 
                                                            Eric Klien
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,soc.culture.african.american
From: vijay@wizards.austin.ibm.com (Vijay Joglekar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: CFV: alt.us.visas
Date: 21 Jul 92 15:36:00 GMT
Reply-To: vijay@wizards.austin.ibm.com
Organization: IBM (Aix Tools Development)

How about creating a group called alt.us.visas.  By the addition of this 
group we could help folks mostly interested in visa information from any 
country to get that information easily.  A FAQ will also be helpful. 
This will moderate many of the soc groups. 


**********************************************************************
               Vijay Joglekar - arbiter elagantiarum
 Disclaimer: These are my opinions and my opinions only. Has nothing
                      to do with where I work.
            Littera scripta manet: Credo quia absurdum
**********************************************************************
From: bd@fluent@dartmouth.EDU (Brice Dowaliby)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,sci.lang
Subject: Re: Magic Johnson and Arthur Ashe
Date: 21 Jul 92 13:06:31 GMT
    <1992Jul13.141213.18114@cci632.cci.com> 
    <1992Jul13.203938.13914@midway.uchicago.edu> 
    <1992Jul14.173154.12426@cci632.cci.com> <656@tdat.teradata.COM> <1682612EBF.JAREA@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Reply-To: bd%fluent@dartmouth.EDU
Organization: Fluent Inc., Lebanon NH


in article <1682612EBF.JAREA@UKCC.UKY.EDU> JAREA@UKCC.UKY.EDU writes:

>It would be most helpful here, to those of us trying our best to understand
>and be supportive, for you to give a clear and precise definition or
>characterization of "Standard English"  In "Standard English" do we spell
>it "kerb" or "curb"?  Is the stress on the first or the second syllable of
>"laboratory", etc.?  Is the "correct" word "truck" or "lorry"?  Is the
>proper grammatical construction "Have you a book?" or "Do you have a book?"?
>Should we say "Everyone may express his opinion", or "Everyone may express
>their opinion"?  And even more important, precisely what authority may we
>consult to be sure we are using "Standard English" since there seems to be
>variance amongst those claiming such authority?  Indeed, what are the
>ways in which such authorities are endowed with their authority?  I feel
>that a clear, unambiguous answer satisfactory to all of us with a strong
>interest in supporting and propagating Standard English will be of the
>utmost help here, and will quickly put to rest all of the squabbling that
>has been using up our bandwidth.  Thank your for your courteous help.

A valid quibble, but a quibble nonetheless.  Put two speakers on a platform,
one speaking "black" English, and one speaking "standard" English, and it
wouldn't take me long to tell which was which.  Better yet, put both those
speakers in a job interview with IBM...

I'm not a linguist, but doesn't your post merely point out that there
are regional and dialectical differences in languages?  One of the points
that keeps being made in this discussion is that "black" English should be
viewed not as a dialect, but as a separate language.


-- 
    Brice Dowaliby         |    I may speak fluently, but 
(bd%fluent@dartmouth.edu)  |    I don't speak for Fluent
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: cbc1@Ra.MsState.Edu (christopher b carey)
Subject: Re: Violence, defense & Islam
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 07:31:44 GMT

carl.camurca@wugate.wustl.edu!travel (Carl Camurca) writes:

>Hi everybody!

[Stuff deleted]

>BS>Jihad may also take violent forms.  But we are not talking about
>BS>aribtrary violence here.  The Qur'an regulates the type of violence.

>BS>With all due respect to pacifist philosophers, be they Ghandi or Dr. King,
>BS>a world-view which does not permit the use of force even in self-defense
>BS>is not practical on a national level.  For example, if Nazi Germany
>BS>invades you, you want to defend youself.   The Qur'an specifically
>BS>permits the use of violence as a method of defense and a means to put
>BS>an end to oppression.

>BS>Malcolm X, as a Muslim, said that he accepted the use of violence for defens
>BS>against violence.  He said, in fact, that if the violence is in self-defense
>BS>he wouldn't even call it "violence," he would call it "intelligence."  He
>BS>said --and I am praphrasing-- "We are only non-violent to those who are
>BS>non-violent to us."

>Well, now we got another problem. *WHO* defines, what "defense" is and
>when it is necessary? Hitler was defending the lebensraum of the Aryan
>race, Bush was defending the "free" world in Iraq, Grenada, Vietnam
>etc., Breshnev defended The Only Ideology in Afghanistan, Khomeini
>defended the Islam against the evil West, especially evil heretics
>like Rushdi. Are the lyrics of the song "Cop killer" an appell for
>self-defense? The German army knew a term called "Vorne-Verteidigung"
>("forward defense"). What does this mean exactly? Doesn't it sound more
>like attack? I mean, this is slippery ground, by this way "defense"
>becomes quickly something different and uncontrollable.

Well, here's my version of the answer to the posed problem.
Hitler struck first.
Bush asked 'em to move, then moved in.  At least in Iraq.  I don't know
about Vietnam, and Grenada is just a blur.
Breshnev attacked first.
Khomeini I'm not sure about.

I've got nothing against people defending themselves, and I think more
people should follow Malcom's words as paraphrased above.

I've never been violent towards a person just for being a certain pigment.
I have however felt threatened by a group of people who looked like
they meant me ill.  All different colors.

I don't agree with people going out and doing random violence, but if
anyone were to pull a knife on me, and I could, I'd kill him/her with
no problems about it.

Anyone disagree with this philosiphy???

Chris Carey.

--
Got those wishing I was out of school so I could see my girl on
a regular basis blues.
From: ph111-bx@violet.berkeley.edu (;;;;7202)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Clinton's Disrespect For Jessee Jackson
Date: 25 Jul 92 21:35:32 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: violet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Jul25.073627.10348@usl.edu> pssres12@ucs.usl.edu
(Vignes Gerard M) writes:
>	Specifically, minority leaders need to strengthen
>	their political leverage by participating
>	aggressively and with heavy voter turnouts
>	in BOTH political parties: Democratic and Republican.

Too much emphasis is given to political representation and not enough to
economic power.  Black people control much of the Oakland city government,
the school board and its teachers and administration.  And yet the murder
rate is heading for a record year.  Changing the color of government isn't
the answer.  The organizational energy and drive that achieved this should
much more be focused on developing local indigenous business and economic
self-sufficiency.  Success here provides the real role model for young
people and the hope that they can succeed.  Political power follows from
economic power, not the other way around.

Though this is highly unlikely to ever happen, another solution to many
of our problems is simply birth control.  With the invention of the
Norplant device, conception can now be prevented for five years with just
one implant.  The government should pay for, and parents encourage all
girls on reaching puberty to get a ten year implant (if there is one).
In the unlikely event the child should actually desire to have a child
while a teenager, the government should pay for the device's removal at
her request.  If virtually all teen pregnancies could be eliminated, and,
in fact, if women could only become pregnant out of desire to have a child,
a vast number of our social problems could be controlled and solved.
Nurturing, loving parents are the greatest influence and role model any
child could hope for and the best chance they have to succeed.  Though,
people who have children by accident often become good parents, the desire
to have a family would seem to be the best predictor of parental success.
And there just aren't enough good teachers and social workers to go around
to provide a surrogate role for those parents who fail.
From: charlie@isis.mit.edu (Charlie Fulton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Magic Calls It Quits w/ Converse
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:33:55 GMT
Organization: Ctr for Advanced Rsrch in Oppressive Binarisms
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1

I heard brief mention on the radio this morning that
Magic Johnson has terminated his advertising contract
w/ Converse over a "bitter dispute".  No further
elaboration was given.  Has anyone heard a fuller
report?                         charlie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Subject: Re: Daughters of the Dust
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 00:20:10 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.134654.17336@athena.cs.uga.edu>,
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes:
(in response to another)
>>Just saw Daughters of the Dust again on PBS.  I'm completely
>>stirred up, just as I was when I first saw it.
>>
>>Are there others out there who've been moved?  Maybe
>>I'll be better able to express myself later, but for now
>>what does it do to you?
>>
>>Beautiful.  A tone.  Emotional.
>>
>
>I'll have to wait a while to get stirred up. Its not showing here
>until August 6th. But I can't wait to see it.
.
.
Over here, the South Bay (SF Bay Area) station, Channel 60, KCSM
(College of San Mateo) is showing it at 7:00 p.m. tonight.  Get
those VCRs out...
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 05:29:20 EDT
From: <FKR@psuvm.psu.edu>   Fred Rozenblad
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Nonviolence, defense and America (Was Re: Violence, defense and Is
Distribution: world
 <1992Jul23.120857.57470@cc.usu.edu>


slzm9 ask that the attacks on Willian Franklin cease.

I'm not about to attack him but, it seems Franklin brought this on himself.
From the articles he's responding to, he continues to put his foot deeper
and deeper down his own throat. There have been other "white" posters who
put shit on this net-just to get folx riled up. I'm sure ppl remember Glenn
Cooley, Arthur Hu, and Philip Stromer. These are just a few names I can re-
member off the top of my head.

I have no problem w/ anyone regardless of their skin color reading or posting
on this net. They have the same "rights" everbody have in that regard. Even
if they post something out of ignorance, they can be schooled. But when ig-
nornce is combined w/ arrogance and there is no "sincerity" on the part of
some posters, then they get what they are asking for.

                                  *
                                  *  "This space reserved for a new quote."
Fred Rozenblad-"Kickin' the 3"    *
FKR@psuvm.psu.edu                 *
From: bstring@mainz-emh2.army.mil (BOB STRINGFIELD)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: [Christic Institute:  SF 105/Again No Justice for Blacks]
Date: 28 Jul 1992 03:19:21 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE

Charges have already been dropped against thousands who took to
the streets here in the days following the verdict. Some of those
arrested for blocking Interstate 280 and the Bay Bridge do still
face infraction charges. Most of these people are white. However,
of the 105 demonstrators facing felony charges for property
crimes, according to District Attorney Arlo Smith, at least 90
percent are African American.

The District Attorney got secret grand jury indictments against
these 105 people. When they appeared in court of their own free
will for what they thought would be a preliminary hearing, instead
they found themselves re-arrested and placed in jail for a second
time, this time with a higher bond. Some young African American
men are still in jail awaiting trial today, because they could not
pay this higher bond.

Is the District AttorneyUs office discriminating against African
Americans?
Not exactly. TheyUre prosecuting the people the police arrested.
The problem, of course, is that the District Attorney doesnUt have
to discriminate, because the police have already discriminated, by
choosing to target African Americans almost exclusively in their
felony arrests. The District Attorney has no control over whom the
police choose to arrest, but he has complete control over whom he
chooses to prosecute, and on what charges. This set of arrests is
obviously discriminatory, or more bluntly, racist. The Defense
Committee believes the District Attorney should drop the charges
against all 105.

We hope that the San Francisco Board of Supervisors will act soon,
joining the Human Rights Commission in urging the D.A. to drop
these charges.
In the meantime, thereUs a great deal you can do to help get
justice for the SF 105.

What you can do:

1.      CALL the District Attorney's office at (415) 553-1752 and
demand that the charges against the SF 105 be dropped because
these are unjust, racist prosecutions.

2.      WRITE letters to the editors of local papers, so that other
citizens can be informed and share your outrage.

3.      GET INVOLVED by working with No Justice P No Peace: Bay Area
Political Defense Committee, a group of local activists who've
come together to defend the SF 105.

        Call (415) 241-1551 for more information.


For full text, please see <justice.comm>.
From: frankli@seq.uncwil.edu (william carter franklin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: KNUCKLEHEAD tally (was Re: Good Quote
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:32:30 GMT
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington

shin@krusty.ee.udel.edu (Jeong-Gyun Shin) writes:


>And also don't forget to count number of half size brains who cannot
>finish a post without choice f and motherf words and those who go
>along.

Yeah, I mean every time I make a good point in one of my excellent
postings, there is always some bonehead who follows me up, but 
instead of making valid points he just whines and calls me vulgar names.
Doesn't that show that you have hit a nerve?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american