HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: srinehar@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Shawn L Rinehart)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Seagal's Firearms handling (was: Re: Got One! (Spring. Arm. 1911-A
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:56:38 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University


     I saw 'Heartbreak Ridge' last night and noticed that everybody was 
shooting from the hip. Everybody was also shooting full auto all of the time. 

I never got to shoot from the hip when I was in the army. Hell, I only got to 
go full auto a few times the whole time I was in. I thought Clint Eastwood knew 
better than this.

I've heard (rumor) that he has even competed in some shooting contests. Has
anyone else heard of this or was it just worthless babble.
_____________________________________________________________________
| If you love something,    |  Shawn L. Rinehart                    |
| Let it go,                |  srinehar@magnusug.acs.ohio-state.edu |
| If it doesn't come back,  |  Ohio State Engineering               |
| Hunt it down and kill it. |                                       |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gus@prism.gatech.edu (gus Baird)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: the spirit of rec.guns
Date: 22 Jan 93 14:08:35 GMT
Organization: College of Computing, Georgia Institute of Technology


In article <19585@smoke.brl.mil> gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes:
#
 >In article <9301210053.AA12733@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca> keith@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca (Keith de Solla) writes:
 >-I've been thinking, can we start calling 'assault rifles' something
 >-better, such as 'service rifles'.  That is what they are, after all.
 >-Yes, its fun to type 'Evil Assault Rifle {tm}', (I do it), but we
 >-may not be helping our cause.
 >
 >How about "militia arms", which is pretty accurate.
 
For simplicity, clarity, and a little nostalgia, "army rifles"?
-- 
gus Baird, College of Computing
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!prism!gus
ARPA: gus@cc.gatech.edu
From: JCEHC%CUNYVM.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: good, bad, & ugly
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:52:34 GMT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    But so long as I am posting:

     The best looking cartridge firearm:......The Model 1900 Luger
(old style Luger with scalloped toggles and the pencil thin .30 cal
barrel)

    The best looking shotgun:.......A Purdy bar in wood exposed hammer
double.

    The ugliest   firearm:.......I can't make up my mind but it's either
an SKS or a Glock

    Let's face it today's firearms are UGLY, some of the finishes may
be durable but they just can't compare to what was standard years ago.
If you want real pretty guns, you have to go back to the muzzle loading
era.

Michael Gordon
From:  (MJ)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SIG Sauer P226: I now understand the cult
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:00:12 GMT


In article <9301201657.AA07226@optilink.com>, cramer@optilink.com (Clayton
Cramer) wrote:
# 
# My last encounter with the P226 left me underwhelmed.  I have one in stock
# for a customer at the moment, and I am beginning to understand the cult of
# the SIG.  It's esthetically hopeless, but ergonomically beautiful.  Every
# control comes to position perfectly.  The lack of ambidextrous controls
# causes me no suffering whatsoever, because I can manipulate EVERYTHING
# with the left hand.  The double action trigger is the first that I can recall
# that doesn't make me feel like I'm being punished for having double action.
# 
# Now, if only it wasn't almost twice as expensive as most of its competitors...

I believe there is a SIG cult.  IMHO, they are too expensive for what you
get but they are ergonomically nice.  Howevever, as a lefty I found the
hammer drop very difficult to actuate without shifting my grip.

MJ

[As if you didn't already know, my opinions are my own and not my
company's.]
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Guns used in assassinations
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:40:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: CERIS.1993Jan26.221002.26926
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <1993Jan24.023112.17358@henson.cc.wwu.edu>, by n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio):
# C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
# 
# #Here's a rather morbid question:  what were the makes and models
# #of guns used in various assassinations and attempts?  For instance,
# #an Italian Carcano was used on JFK; what was used in the murders
# #of Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr., Bobby Kennedy, and the
# #attempts on Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan?
# 
# 	Malcom X: some sort of 9mm para pistol.
# 

I think it was a sawed off shotgun in the network show I watched recently.
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: toby@stein.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Recoil Formula
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:15:18 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <9301261811.AA11040@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov> weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (daniel weed 283-4162) writes:
#You'll probably get a bunch of different ways to measure recoil.
#I think the best mathematical way is this:
#
#Take the muzzle velocity of the bullet times the bullet weight, then
#divide that by the weight of the gun.  Be sure the weight of the gun
#and of the bullet are in the same units, either pounds or grains
#(7000 grains = 1 pound).
#
#The result is a velocity, in feet per second, called the Recoil Velocity.
#If you were to suspend your rifle on the end of a long wire, like a
#pendulum, then remotely fired the gun, the bullet would go one way, the
#rifle would go the other, and what you have calculated is the velocity the
#rifle would attain. (this has actually been done).

Oops.  Neglects the momentum of the propellant gases, and is therefore
pretty misleading.

#This of course, ignores many factors that affect _perceived_ recoil, such
#as moving internal parts, the length of time over which the impulse
#occurs, butt padding, sound, etc.  But it does provide a fairly good
#relative measure of recoil.  It takes into account both the bullet
#energy and the weight of the gun.

Toby Bradshaw
Department of Biochemistry and College of Forest Resources
University of Washington, Seattle
toby@u.washington.edu

"A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of
a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall
not be infringed."  Do you conclude from this that only voters may 
own books?
From: callison@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Seagal's Firearms handling (was: Re: Got One! (Spring. Arm. 1911-A1))
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:38:18 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <1993Jan25.191841.5140@iex.uucp> hancock@iex.iex.com (David Hancock) writes:
#[snip]
#In the movie "The Professionals", with Lee Marvin, Burt Lancaster, Robert Ryan,
#and Jack Palance (among others), I noted two things pertaining to gun handling
#rarely seen:
#2) when they shot someone they didn't empty their weapon as a matter of course;
#   it is interesting to watch Mr. Marvin's character take out bad guys with
#   one round fired offhand (and double action) from his revolver.

That always irritated me about the Die Hard movies--"we've got an unknown
number of bad guys, but they obviously outnumber me, so let's never shoot
just one bullet--let's spray and pray!"

I was watching "Street Justice" the other day--I won't make that mistake 
again--and their gun handling was particularly sorry. I have never
understood why a TV cop, with his weapon drawn on a guy holding a hostage,
swinging his gun around (pointing at noone in particular, mainly the ceiling
and floor) doesn't just pop him. Or why, when the perp has an SA pistol,
(1911-clone, of course) uncocked, he just stands there watching while the 
guy pulls the hammer back...shoot the SOB while the gun _won't_ go off
due to a trigger pull! Sheesh!

But Seagal's actually very good with his gun safety; I'll never forget
his line in "Hard to Kill":
	"Did I miss? Damn! I _never_ miss..."
:-)

				James

James P. Callison       Microcomputer Coordinator        OU Law Library 
Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu
	constellation!biglaw!callison@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
	"God didn't make men and women equal. Colonel Colt did."
			--Maggie Zombro, "Reasonable Doubts"
From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: gun in an apartment
Date: 28 Jan 93 16:09:56 GMT
Organization: The Courts of Chaos * 501-985-0059 * Public Access Usenet


-> If you are talking about storage when you are not home and the gun
-> is, a good place is behind the air conditioning vent (assuming you
-> have air conditioning).  Few thieves remove the vents when robbing a
-> place.

 I have the impression most robberies are pretty quick in-and-out
routines.  Check the cookie jar, under the mattress, bureau drawers,
top shelf in the closet; grab the most expensive/portable entertainment
equipment and scram.  At least, that's the impression I get reading the
police report section in the paper.

 Unfortunately, many apartments either have the vents on the ceiling,
which would make things awkward, or run small-diameter ducting to the
vents.  It'd be hard to hide a decent-sized handgun in a 5" diameter
flex-duct, and after a while it'd be a pain in the arse to remove the
screws to get to it.

 I'd suggest a stout metal box and a chain wrapped around the plumbing
under the sink, a water pipe, or other relatively immovable object.  If
your thief is bringing his hacksaw or bolt cutters he'd still get it,
but your typical smash-and-grabber probably wouldn't.
From: rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Self defense hypothetical
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:15:27 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280

#>>>> On 27 Jan 93 03:39:19 GMT, PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer) said:

#> Further, if you are likely to be identified, you should stand your
#> ground.  But anytime you shoot someone for any reason, you are
#> likely to be charged, and that is something to be avoided.  It's
#> also illegal, but that's not the issue.

#> To answer your question, If I am not likely to be identified, I
#> will collect my brass, and retire.

Wouldnt it be worse for you if you get cough later? If you stand
around you might at least have a self defense case.  If you "retire",
then you will probably be charges as the aggressor
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|\///\\\/\///|                rtaraz@wpi.wpi.edu                /  Is today \ |
|\\//\\//\\//|       1988 EX500 (missed dearly until spring)    | a good day| |
|\\\/\///\\\/|       DOD # 0740  ||  Taurus PT-92AF             \  to die?  / |
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From: mws20@ccc.amdahl.com (Mark Sechrest)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Sig P220, Assembled by RPI?????
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:03:23 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


A local gun dealer has a limited nember of Sig P220's chambered in 9mm
at an attractive price. The smith there tells me that these were overruns
on a production for the Taiwanese special police. On the side they say
"Assmebled by RPI" but the rest of the Sigs he has on display do not. Any
idea who RPI is and why they were assembling guns for Sig? Would this be
a good buy at $470?

Mark
From: leem@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Lee Mellinger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ammo
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:25:02 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)

In article <1993Jan26.003549.23078@ttinews.tti.com> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
:In article <1jvfe3INNt74@digex.digex.com> curt@access.digex.com (curt williams) writes:
:}#>Is Black Talon the best stopper out
:}CorBon CorBon CorBon CorBon CorBon CorBon CorBon CorBon
:}'Nough said?
:Not quite.  Black Talon is too new to have developed much of a street
:history, but anecdotes are beginning to make the rounds.  If those I've
:heard are even half true, BT should eventually prove itself a very
:effective stopper.
:
:Now, if they'd just find another name for it ...
:
:The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)


I have heard a semi-official, probably true rumor that Winchester has
yielded to law enforcement entreaties and is going to change the name
of the Black Talon ammo to something a defense attorney can't use for
his or his clients personal gain.


Lee

"Mit Pulver und Blei, die Gedanken sind frei."

|Lee F. Mellinger                 Caltech/Jet Propulsion Laboratory - NASA
|4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109 818/354-1163  FTS 792-1163     
|leem@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock vs. Sig!?
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:39:08 GMT


Hurray, round umpteen :)


James P. Callison writes:
#SIG is better, because God hisself told me in a dream. :-)

Which God?

:)

I recently though about buying a SIG-Sauer, but decided that one cheaply
made stamped steel gun is enough :)

The P-210, now there's a REAL SIG. Oh to be rich :)


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
Geordi: "...it's like the laws of physics went right out the
window." Q: "And why shouldn't they? They're so inconvenient."
From: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Home Invasion Prevention Tactics Wanted
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:52:09 GMT
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

I was moving into my new house and didn't read rec.guns for a few
days. Now it has 700+ articles waiting...

In article <1993Jan16.184642.19867@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
#
#It depends on whether you want to live or not, and what path you
#think will keep you alive best.   If you think not-shoot = death,
#then shoot,  if you think shoot = death, then don't.    What might
#put you in jail is not important if you won't live that long anyway.

That is a very good observation. However, the bottom line of the
prblem is to decide which one is equal to death, shoot or not-shoot.
So how do you decide which one is equal to death?

David
-- 
 K. David Lin, Ph.D.              | IEEE Member, NRA Member, HAM Operator
 Communication Services Research  | U S WEST Life Safety Team
 U S WEST Advanced Technologies   | Defend your life in STEREO - Beretta & SIG 
 E-mail: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com | Disclaimer: Only personal opinions
From: fist@iscp.bellcore.com (Richard Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why ?
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:38:10 GMT
Organization: Bellcore

In "Formal" military style pistol shooting the position
is standing with right foot pointing at target, left foot
side ways. If you were to draw a line through your left shoulder
and right shoulder to the target they would be in line
your chin will touch your right shoulder and right arm
with pistol extended, left goes either in pocket or behind
belt, this was up until 74 Navy style, I do not know what
they do now. This was the positon for both the High Standard
.22's and the Colt .45 firing at 25 and 50 feet at an indoor
range at round paper targets.
-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
#1/XS1100LH	#2/10/10/92
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.bellcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I Don't shop in malls, I BUY my jeans, jackets and ammo
in the same store.
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: shooting under water?
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:00:51 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab (BRL), APG, MD.


In article <1jl3bdINNstt@shelley.u.washington.edu>, basiji@stein.u.washington.edu (David Basiji) writes:
- As you point out, you have to worry about the difference in pressure
- between the inside and outside of the barrel, not the absolute pressure
- of either (within reason).  Since the pressure outside is 14.7 psi and
- the pressure inside is much higher, reducing outside pressure to zero
- is equivalent to only a small percentage change in the pressure differential
- and wouldn't be significant.

However, the column of water in the barrel is MUCH less compressible than
the normal corresponding column of air.  Thus the bullet will meet more
resistance moving down the barrel and so the internal volume will be less
at any given point during the powder combustion.  This should indeed lead
to higher chamber pressure.  How much higher, I don't know.
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Calibre change kits?
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:52:39 GMT
Organization: Circle 'C' Shellfish Ranch, Shores of the Pacific, California

Now that I have a 1911A1 .45 ACP, I'm wondering what it would take to 
shoot a different calibre in it.  Say, for example, .40 S&W?

I figure a new barrel and magazine, and maybe a new recoil spring?
Or is the .40 S&W so long that you can't adapt a .45 ACP frame?

How about .41 AE or 9mm ?

Does anyone make such kits?  And do they cost more than a new gun ;-)

On a more general note:  I've often thought it would be nice to have
a target gun with a bit less bark than 9mm, but don't like the 
short bbls and blowback design of most .380 (9mm Kurtz) guns.  So...
What would it take to convert a 9mm Parabellum to .380?  New bbl
(probably custom) and different springs... but could you use the
same magazine?  And what gun would work best for that?  The Beretta?
A Glock?  

Yeah, I like to tinker ... how could you tell :-)

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: jeffc@sad.hp.com (Jeff Crowell)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Quigley, anyone?
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:03:07 GMT
Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID)


Hi, gang.

I'm tryng to find a source for a Sharps replica, preferably in one of the
larger calibers 8-).  I've checked out the Shiloh and C.Sharps repro's,
and they look like everything I want... it's just that Shiloh currently
reports a 33-month wait, and C.Sharps an 18-month wait (yow!).

Anyone have one for sale?  I'd prefer something in the 45-110 or 45-120
cartridge.



Hoping to hear from someone (email, por favor).




Later,
Jeff
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ammo
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:00:41 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <1993Jan19.195006.3588@pro-amber.cts.com> rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com (Randy Sopicki) writes:
#Is Black Talon the best stopper out or is it just well publicized by
#Winchester?

I don't know how you would give absolute meaning to "best stopper",
but certainly the ballistic performance of Black Talon ammo is very
good in tests that have been performed.  I'd have no hesitation
about using it in a carry weapon.
From: holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: rec.guns, the soap opera (was: Home Invasion Prevention Tactics Wanted)
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:16:06 GMT
Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA

kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin) writes:
#How about let's start a newsgroup rec.guns.truncated or rec.guns.cut
#( you get the idea )? Whenever something starts to evolve outside
#the scope of r.g., we can follow up to this newsgroup. Articles in
#this new newsgroup have to be originated from r.g. ( This is to
#differentiate from t.p.g. )

I don't think this would work in practice.  Firstly, it would have to
be a moderated newsgroup.  If it weren't, the S/N ratio would go to
pot (see t.p.g).  If it were, who should take this job, playing
"extension unit" to our own august MODERATOR?

Secondly, if a thread diverges, it's invariably in the direction of
a law discussion.  We have a newsgroup for that, namely t.p.g. 
Granted, it's big and it's ugly, but it does the job.  Why complicate
things by inventing a new group with approximately the same mission?

Hopping over to t.p.g, reading the rest of the thread and returning
to r.g should not pose a problem.

#Our MODERATOR is doing an excellent job in keeping this group 
#technical oriented. ( Thanks! ) But it is like that you watched
#a soap opera and suddenly the whole thing disappeared. ;-)

First of all, I join the thanks to Jim.  Can't be said often enough.

Furthermore, I'm quite happy with his timing for rerouting a thread.
In most cases I was about to hit 'k' (the kill-subject key) myself
when I encountered the familiar "Let's take this..." notice.

Call me conservative, but I'm for letting it as it is.

-- 
| Holger Reusch                             |
| Technical University of Vienna, Austria <-+--- No kangaroos here,
| Dept. for Real-Time Systems               |    sorry!
| holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at                 |
From: gary%ke4zv.uucp@mathcs.emory.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: gun in an apartment
Date: 23 Jan 93 21:50:16 GMT
Organization: Destructive Testing Systems

In article <1jjsb2INN438@girtab.usc.edu> plaw@usc.edu (Patrick Law) writes:
#I just bought a gun recently and I am going to pick it up after the two 
#weeks waiting period. I have a problem of finding a safe place to keep 
#my gun in my apartment. There is no gate in the apartment complex and
#one could break into anyone of it with simply a screwdriver. I wonder 
#if anybody out there has the same problem. Please help.

Securing guns in an apartment can be a problem. A big 1000 pound gun
safe works, but may be overkill for your needs. My suggestion is to
have one of the lighter gauge, and cheaper, gun boxes *welded* to your
bed frame. This does a good job of concealing the safe, makes it 
difficult to move or attack with ordinary burglar tools, and makes no
permanent changes to the apartment. Even a .50 cal ammo box welded 
sideways to the bedframe and equipped with a good padlock is decent 
protection for a couple of pistols.

Gary
-- 
Gary Coffman KE4ZV          |    You make it,     | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary
Destructive Testing Systems |    we break it.     | uunet!rsiatl!ke4zv!gary
534 Shannon Way             |    Guaranteed!      | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary      
Lawrenceville, GA 30244     |                     |