From: garrett@Ingres.COM (It's not what you got, it's what you give)
Subject: Re: Bill & Hillary are Socialists (was SOMEBODY'S GOT TO SAY IT)
Summary: Point/Counterpoint  
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
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Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Ingres Product Division
Distribution: usa
Date: 6 Nov 92 22:20:46 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.055019.1563@news.acns.nwu.edu>, dmeier@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Douglas Meier)                 writes...
>In article <1992Nov6.045948.24453@pony.Ingres.COM> garrett@Ingres.COM (It's not what you got, it's what you give) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov6.032716.29047@news.acns.nwu.edu>, dmeier@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Douglas Meier)                 writes...
>>>In article <1992Nov5.220430.1@vxcrna.cern.ch> zeus@vxcrna.cern.ch writes:

>>>Socialists are one of the greatest advocates of eliminating civil liberties. 
>>
>>Whoa! Just who has tried to destroy such civil rights as Habius Corpus,
>>right of privacy (ie drug testing), freedom from unwarrented searches,
>>and seizing your property before the trail? You guessed it, the Republicans.
>>The Warren Court, a liberal court, expanded countless civil rights. The
>>Rehnquist court has eliminated countless. If you want to put this in a 
>>historical context then look at the conservatives in the 50's. The 
>>Puritans of America and England (they actually outlawed Christmas). 
>>
>I also tend to consider our current Republican party a soft-core National
>Socialist party. 

That is a stretch for me.

 Please name the rights that the Warren court expanded.
> 
I'd be glad to. Now I don't know all of them, but I can give you a short list.
The 14th Amendment (the most important amendment after the Bill of Rights)
was brought into it's own by the Warren Court. A very conservative court
in 1872 ("slaughterhouse case" comes to mind) made the 14th Amendment almost 
meaningless before Earl Warren expanded it to its original intent.
The Warren Court was also responsible for the Miranda Rights.
The Warren Court also was chiefly responsible for leading the 
Civil Rights cause for minorities as far back as the early 50's.
This is the short list. For more, just ask.
>>> 
>>>I blame FDR's programs for many of today's problems.  His agenda did not bring
>>>the US out of depression, WWII did.
>>
>>FDR cut the unemployment rate in half before WWII started.
> 
>Unfortunately this cut was almost completely from an increase in Public Sector
>jobs.  Another reason is that because of increased entitlements, many were
>able to leave the work force, decreasing the unemployment rate.
> 
Most of these people that left the work force were the aged who didn't
have retirement plans before SSI.
>>
>> A move closer to socialism will only succeed in quickening
>>>our country's downfall.
>>
>>Freudian slip? Did you just admit that we are going downhill becuase of
>>Reagan/Bush?
> 
>We have been headed downhill since the very early 1900's.  Reagan and Bush are
>just part of the same snowball that began with the Federal Reserve, Income
>Tax, direct election of senators, and the protection of the crooked and lazy
>at the expense of the upright and productive.

I see that you are very dedicated to your cause. And I respect that. But
I disagee with your time frame. America was the most powerful country in the
world from the 40's to the 80's. Were weren't before the 40's. I agree with
you about the Federal Reserve. I also agree with you about Income Tax (but
only because its original intent has been currupted). As for direct election
of senators, I've never heard this arguement before (and therefore never
gave it much thought). Can you expand on this? And your last comment was
very broad and vague. Can you expand on that as well?
>  
>Douglas C. Meier		  
>Northwestern University, ACNS 	
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:58467 alt.rush-limbaugh:9140 alt.politics.elections:22858 alt.politics.clinton:16059 alt.politics.bush:13334