From: hasnie@ed.ecn.purdue.edu (Rizwan Hasnie)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Please reply Mr Nasir Ahmed Noor
Summary: MR NOOR YOU ARE AGAIN LYING
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:46:49 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Apr5.220549.23246@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nasir Ahmed Noor) writes:
> 
> 
> If you were an atheist, i would say Asslam-o-Alakum to you even then.
> Doesn't bother me if you can't say me asslam-o-alakum!!
> 
> Sir,
> The fact is, if you dare to listen, the invitation to ** THE MUBAHILA ** was
> from us and was distributed to millions of people in the Pakistan and it is
> also a documented fact the none of your so called, fraud, Maulvis dared to
> accept the challenge of Mubahila. Not even one. If some says I did, he is a
> liar and Lana-tullah-e-Alal-Kaze-been. (May Allah's curse be on liar).
> 
  
  During the lifetime of Mr.Ghulam Ahmed he *was* challenged by a Maulana  
  Amritsari for Mubahila. Mr.Ahmed initially accepted and then declined for
  any Mubahila. Whereupon, Maulana Amritsari prayed, as it is the Islamic
  tradition, that whoever is wrong among Maulana Sahib & Mr Ahmed dies first.
  And he must die by any cause other than murder. It is Allah's message that
  Maulana Amritsari not only outlived Mr Ahmed but also Mr Ahmed did not die
  of any violence.

  Also about a couple of years back, your leader Mirza Tahir challenged the
  Editor of weekly "Takbeer" Mr Salahuddin for a MUBAHILA. Which he immediately
  accepted by publishing Mirza Tahir's challenge and his reply in his magazine.
  Finding themselves cornered, the Ahmedis then distributed pamphlets and
  pasted some posters in Karachi FALSELY accusing that Mr Salahuddin has refused  to attend any Mubahila. The old issues of "Takbeer" tells the complete 
  story. But I think Ahmedis have learned the trick of lying from Jews. They
  make tall insinuations without any basis. Mr Noor you must see old issues
  of Takbeer before accusing Islamic clergy.


> Your maulvi Tahir Qadri invited our Hazoor to the Minar-e-Pakistan and said
> if this Mirza shows up at 'minar', I will accept the challenge and we will
> spend the whole night there and will see who turns other one in the morning
> (this is not the exact account of the events, but this is roughly what he
> said). It was a confirmed report to us thru our own Inteligence system that
> he plans to murder our Hazoor thru some anonymous attackers that night and
> wanted to show the world that Mirza has been punished by God. Very Celver
> plan indeed. 
> 

  Mr Noor you again fail to understand the seriousness of MUBAHILA. 
  Before start of any Mubahila a prayer similar to the one made by Maulana
  Amritsari is made. And Allah *always* accepts this particular MUBAHILA
  prayer which also is very dangerous so it is not made very frequently.
  Now if your pulpit understood this important aspect of Mubahila they
  shouldn't have worried. Because if they were right surely Tahir Qadri
  would have died first and not your Hazoor. Moreover, no matter how good
  the assasination plan may be your Hazoor wouldn't have met a violent death.
  That is Allah protects the righteous one after Mubahila. This is the
  Islamic law of Mubahila. So either your priests didn't believe in Allah
  the protector or they knew they were wrong so they didn't dare participate.
  

> Don't ask me the source or confirmation of these reports, I just would say
> that if it weren't upto to excellent security and intellignce system in
> Pakistan, hundereds and thousands of our Khalifas would have been killed by 
> today by your claiming to be scholars frauds.
> 
 All the sources of your relegion stink as much as Mr.Mirza Ahmed's laterine.
 We don't need to ask for any of your sources. BTW isn't it your cowardice
 that your leaders have left their holy land of Punjab and have preferred 
 England, the land of Richard,the lion hearted, a crusader and an enemy#1
 of Muslims.

> Hope this answer is enough. 
> 
 For your intellect, YES.

> These are also documented facts that our Scholars used to go to "Munaziras"
> (a face to face public debate) called by your Maulvis. It was a common 
> practice that when the maulvi is getting speechless and is getting beaten 
> on every argument he presents, he would cause violance to start thru some
> ready gangsters. Not to mention that all this was always preplanned. Out
> Jammat noticed this practice hundereds of times and concluded that although
> we go to these debates with fair heart, the opponents participate only
> to end it up in violance and disturbance of peace. So we decided that we
> won't be going to these invitations any more. Although any one is well
> come to come to our mosques, meet our Khalifa and scholars and present 
> questions and stuff, but this MUNAZIRA thing was a biggest fraud held
> by maulvis there.     This fact and policy also effected the decission
> of Hazoor not to see Jafry.
> 

 When did you decide that? It was only a couple of years back that a
 Qadiyani-Muslim munazira was held in South India ( I think Kerala).
 No violence took place there. Although there were some conversions 
 from Ahmedis to Muslims. Is it actually these conversions that you fear?

> Nasir Ahmed Noor

                                          Rizwan Hasnie.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan