HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Knicks pull off trade
Date: 29 Sep 92 12:42:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: NeoSoft.1992Sep29.124241.16036
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900

In article <1992Sep24.165639.13102@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei) writes:
>In article <1992Sep24.141818.38120@uvmark.uucp> davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:
			.
			.
			.
>>Also, speed doesn't get you a 52% FGP...  This year he only managed 46.6%, 
>>which for a guy playing PF/C, is pretty bad.  Only once in his career
>>has he shot over 50%, which again, for someone his size, is pretty poor.
>>He doesn't rebound as well as Oakley/Mason, but is indeed more mobile, quicker,
>>and a better shot blocker.  He is indeed a very, very good addition for 
>>NY..
>
>Again...do you take injury into account or what?  How well did Bird play this
>year anyway?  Or the year before?  What happens to stats when you get hurt
>badly enough to miss half the year? (and play coming back instead of a
>season ending injury).  Once in his career over 50% huh?  So what about the
			.
			.
			.
I thought Mr. Meeks would be all over you
by now in answering this question.  Mr.
Bird played WELL this year, last year, and
every year.  At his most crippled, he was
an outstanding rebounder, a leader in team
play, and a scoring threat from anywhere on
the court.

Your point that injuries can bring a player
far below his potential stands.  Pat Riley
should be a good one to elicit Charles
Smith's true potential; myself, I doubt that
it's much more than we've seen so far.
-- 

Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)	+1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)  	+1 713 996 8546
From: cs161feu@sdcc10.ucsd.edu (Anthony Minkoff)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Underestimating the Lakers, again
Date: 4 Oct 92 21:04:22 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

jamesd@techbook.com (James Deibele) writes:
>Ah, you bleed Laker Blue.  OK.  Not only will the Lakers not win the
>Pacific Division, they won't even be close.  If they edge into the
>playoffs at all, which I doubt they will, it will be in the eighth slot 
>again.

You have *got* to be kidding, James.  Last year, they were without
Magic for the entire season.  James Worthy missed 28 games.  Sam
Perkins missed 19.  Vlade Divac, 46.  And they *still* made the
playoffs, in spite of all that.  This season, with all those starters
returning, you don't think they will be one of the most improved
teams in the West?

I'm not saying they're going to win the Division, but they're going
to make one hell of an improvement on last year's 43 wins.

Tony

P.S.  Have you entered my prediction contest?  :-)
From: goedde@ellipse.mps.ohio-state.edu (Chris Goedde)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Underestimating the Lakers, again
Date: 4 Oct 1992 14:09:32 -0400
Organization: Department of Mathematics, The Ohio State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: ellipse.mps.ohio-state.edu

In article <BvLyvM.E01@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J ) writes:

>	
>	The Lakers have quite a talent at off-guard to back up in Scott in
>	Anthony Peeler.  In fact, Peeler is quite similar to Scott in his
>	style of play.  Like Scott did to Norm Nixon, I wouldn't be surprised
>	if Peeler grabs the starting position by the end of the season...

Just a nit.  Norm Nixon started all of Scott's first season...for the Clippers.

chris
goedde@shape.mps.ohio-stat.edu
From: ism1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (IAN SETH MILLER)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Magic un-retires
Date: 5 Oct 92 02:43:54 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <Aen_Fwa00YV9Q4GnZ5@andrew.cmu.edu>, ew2r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Erik Karl
Witte) writes:
>> overwhelmed by the Bulls, but Magic upset the Blazers (I'll never forget
>> him flinging the ball down the court in game 6 to make sure the Blazers
>> couldn't foul)
>
>That was probably the most heads-up play I've seen in years.
>
>As for the rest of it, I think Magic would have been better off in
>retirement.  He will not play as well as he did before (age being
>perhaps more of a factor than HIV+), and will not be that valuable (15
>million?!?) because he's only playing 50 or so games.  I always had a
>lot of respect for Magic, but this is just a money grab on his part, and
>I'm sad to see it happen.
>
Putting the money issue a side and looking at this situation from the Lakers
playing the best team possible Magic, despite his age, through the All - Star
game and Olympic practices has proven that he has not lost his skill.  Even if
he had a slight loss in his game, he is still much better than Threatt,
granted he did a very good job last year, and Threatt was the first to say
he's no Magic Johnson.

As for the money, I think it was secondary on his mind to doing the thing he
loves.  Magic is a very wealthy man and this 14.6 he's singed was Jerry Buss
saying that he owes Magic a lot for what he's done for the team and the city
of Los Angeles over the years.  I'm sure Magic will put the money to good use
in research and, he'll make sure his family will be well taken care of.


>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: cmgrawbu@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER M GRAWBURG)
Subject: Re: Michael Cooper 
Originator: cmgrawbu@c00551-1403br.eos.ncsu.edu
Keywords: Jordan, Bird, Michael Cooper
Reply-To: cmgrawbu@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER M GRAWBURG)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:43:28 GMT





Yep, I heard that Coop was now an assistant coach!


Chris
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: paulg@microsoft.com (Paul Goode)
Subject: Re: Shaquille/Sampson
Date: 05 Oct 92 23:39:42 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Distribution: na
Summary: Trivia

In article <BvnpBI.58@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J ) writes:
> markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:
> 
> 	Trivia -- can someone name (without looking) the a player who played
> 	more than 8 years, and his scoring averaged dropped every year from
> 	his rookie season?


Paul Pressey?

Paul

Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 12:48:50 -0400 
From: "Jonathan T. Moore" <jmci+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Magic Johnson

If indeed Jerry West is getting tired of waiting (which he has every
right to be, since Magic makes a huge difference to the Lakers), it
should also be realized that Magic also has the right to know how coming
out of retirement will affect his (and perhaps others') health. Last I
heard, his doctors were still figuring out what effect the Olympics had,
so I agree that Magic has as long to decide as it takes for the research
to finish.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: delledg@jake.cc.wayne.edu (De Vaughn Elledge)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Nets don't match, Terry Mills -> Pistons officially!
Date: 2 Oct 92 20:59:47 GMT
Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit

In article <16874D9BC.EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu> EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu writes:

>Name a better free agent they could get for that money, one who
>is 24 or younger, a big man, and has a decent inside game (something that
>was missing on the Pistons). While you're at it, make sure he's a Michgan
>basketball hero who'd really love to play for the Pistons.
> 
>--Eric

I think that says it all right there!! He was the one person the Pistons
needed and he was available. I don't buy the vengence crap. The Pistons
are trying to rebuild there team the fact that Daly is the New head
coach is just a coincedence. This Hurt crap is really naive, you are
starting to sound like CNN. When they got nothing bad to say, make it up
and someone will be there to agree with you.

================================================================================
=  De Vaughn A. Elledge      ** ================================================
=                            **               DON'T   STEAL 
= DELLEDG @ JAKE.CC.WAYNE.EDU**     The Government Hates Competition!!!!
= DELLEDG @ CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU ** ================================================
=                            ** Detroit Rockers: 1991 NPSL CHAMPIONS!!!! 
= Wayne State University     ** Detroit Lions: 1991 Cntrl. Div. Champs 
= Detroit, MI                ** Go Pistons, Redwings, Tigers, Turbos!!!!
============================ ** Go Tartars, Wolverines, Drive!!!     
================================================================================
From: ravi@wti.com (Ravi Raj)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Selfish
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:51:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: wavefron.606
Organization: Wavefront Technologies Inc, Santa Barbara, CA
X-Disclaimer: Not a spokesperson for Wavefront Technologies, Inc.

In article <1992Oct6.135536.25735@viewlogic.com> tim@kudzu.viewlogic.com (Tim Foster) writes:
>who contract it.  The way that this disease is communicated is through
>blood.  Although the odds are probably pretty low, there still remains
>a chance that some contact with Magic might cause blood to flow.  Teeth
>can easilty break through someone's skin if hard contact is made.  That
>is the nature of the game of basketball, especially in the NBA.  

I am willing to bet that in the 100 odd years of basketball, there
has never been a case of two player colliding and both of them
bleeding and a "blood transfusion" of sorts occurring. Agreed, it
is a possibility, but the odds of that occurring are probably
less than a player banging his head against the board and paralysising
himself. So, what do you do? Get the players to wear helmets? :-)

Now that the NBA has introduced a rule that does not allow bleeding
players on the court, the odds IMO have further been reduced.
Who knows how many other NBA players might be carrying the HIV virus?
Knowingly or unknowingly! It was just by chance that Magic was
tested for the virus.  And if Magic was really selfish like you say, 
he would never have revealed that he had contracted the HIV virus.
From: mrp@ITD.Adelaide.EDU.AU (Mark Prior)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Gaze in the NBA?
Date: 2 Oct 92 10:52:28 GMT
Organization: Information Technology Division, University of Adelaide
NNTP-Posting-Host: sirius.itd.adelaide.edu.au

In article <1992Sep30.170849.19262@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami) writes:
|>
|> What makes Mullin and NBA superstar is not his shooting touch or
|> unselfishness.  It's his hard work, dammit.  If Andrew Gaze had half
|> the dedication that Mullin has, he would have played at Seton Hall for
|> at least another year; he'd work harder on all aspects of his game;
|> and after being cut once, he'd hang around and try again and again to
|> make it.
|>
Gaze did intend playing for a second year. Everyone assumed, including
Andrew, that he had another year of eligibily but the NCAA thought
otherwise.

From the games I saw, you got to see a very unusual Andrew Gaze. The
type of game Seton Hall played and the role PJ asked Andrew to play
was very different to his normal role at Melbourne, or for Australia
for that matter. The year at Seton Hall definately improved his
defense, which was non existant beforehand, and I think his overall
game would have improved even more had he been allowed to play another
year.

|> So what, he's a big star in division II in Italy and you think the NBA
|> will come chasing after him?  They're not going to.  They got dozens
|> of players like him busting their butts in summer camps hoping for a
|> chance to be the twelfth man somewhere, and if they don't make it
|> they'll play in the CBA and try some more.
|>
[ Udine was is division 1, although at the bottom of it. ]

I don't think the NBA really chases anyone not brought up through the
NCAA system. The sort of player that an NBA team would like is the
sort of player you build a team around and I don't think any NBA team
is really willing to build their team around a player from outside of
the USA (it's just not patriotic :-).

|> Gaze is probably having more fun and making more money in Italy, and
|> that's just fine.  He probably doesn't have the fire to want to be in
|> the NBA.
|>
I think he is more of a realist and would rather actually play
basketball than spend most of his time on the bench.

Mark.
--
Mark Prior                              Phone : +61 8 228 5680
Information Technology Division         Telex : UNIVAD AA89141
University of Adelaide                  Fax   : +61 8 223 6245
GPO Box 498 Adelaide S.AUSTRALIA 5001   E-mail: mrp@ITD.Adelaide.EDU.AU
From: jte@beefheart.cc.columbia.edu (Jeff Eldredge)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Are the Knicks *really* going to be that good???
Date: 2 Oct 92 22:41:07 GMT
Reply-To: jte@beefheart.cc.columbia.edu
Organization: Columbia University

In article <1992Oct02.185344.3504@brtph560.bnr.ca> markham@brtph600.bnr.ca  
(Andrew Markham P205) writes:
> jte@beefheart.cc.columbia.edu writes:
> >
> >The Knicks are deep and versatile up front, and in the back court.  The 
> >number of possible lineups for them is mind-boggling.  Mason, Smith,  
and 
> >Oakley can play just about any front-court position.  
> 
> If you think Oakley can play just about any front-court position, then I
> defy you to name a power forward that *CANNOT* play just about any  
front-
> court position.
> 
> Oakley at anything but power forward would be absurd.
> 
OK, OK, so he's not a fleet-footed shooting-forward.  I didn't say that he  
could guard Scottie Pippen or James Worthy.  But hell, if Terry Mills can  
play shooting forward, so can Charles Oakley, despite the fact that Mills  
does have a better shot.  Also, Oakley HAS filled in successfully at  
center quite a bit in the past.

Anyway, my main point was to emphasize the depth of the Knicks'  
front-line, NOT to suggest that Charles Oakley is one of the NBA's most  
highly skilled and versatile players.
From: hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Muggsy & the Bullets
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:32:13 GMT
Reply-To: hira@cme.nist.gov
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology

In article <1992Sep30.130414.20882@brtph560.bnr.ca>, markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:

|> The main reason I responded to this post, was the fact that you say that
|> Charlotte has an extremely solid nucleus **even if Muggsy plays point**.
|> I take that to mean that you don't think that Bogues is a legitimate
|> point guard?  Is it just because he's 5'3", or have you just not watched
|> him much?
|> 
|> His pesky defense (leading to 170 steals, 6th highest in the league last 
|> year -- oh yeah, he got 6 blocked shots -- anyone know who's shot he 
|> blocked???), is one of the most difficult to dribble against in the league.  
|> 
|> Also, his assist-per-turnover ratio is simply unparalleled (even when you
|> consider the assist-master Stockton).
|>  
|> Player     ASSTs  TOs  ASSTs/TO
|> -------------------------------
|> Bogues      743  156    4.76***
|> Stockton   1126  286    3.94
|> Richardson  685  204    3.40
|> Price       535  159    3.36
|> M.Jackson   694  211    3.30
|> Hardaway    807  267    3.02
|> K.J.        836  272    3.00
|> Porter      477  188    2.50
|> 
|> Don't get me wrong.  Bogues isn't the best point-guard in the league, but
|> he is no slouch.
|> 
|> The main problem with Bogues is his range.  He shoots a decent 47% from
|> the floor, but cannot sink the 3 pointer because he simply isn't strong
|> enough.

He didn't look all that impressive for the Bullets who drafted him
12th (?) overall a few years back. It was like a freak show with him
and Manute on the floor at the same time. Considering that Charlotte
got him for free (he was left unprotected), it was a good deal.
I don't think that he's the type to lead a team deep in the playoffs,
but would be decent as a backup.

Another wasted draft pick by the Bullets.

Oh yeah, the Post reported that Fatso Williams has stated that he will
be in the Bullets camp. No word yet on whether the Bullets will stick
by their 260 lbs limit before they let him play. Nash (the GM) said 
that he doesn't hold out too much hope. Harvey Grant was quoted as 
saying that he doesn't think of Williams in the basketball sense
anymore. Williams salary is $1.2 mil, and if they cut him they'll
get a $600k exception even though they'd have to pay his whole salary.
If they suspend him due to weight, he'll get zero. Fatso wants to
be traded, and I'm of the thought that even if they could get a late
1st rounder for him its worth it just to get him outta here. Maybe I'm
overestimating his current worth, since he hasn't really played for
2 yrs. The guy is 25.

Ron
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Nets don't match, Terry Mills -> Pistons officially!
Date: 30 Sep 92 22:48:15 GMT
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article <16872100D2.EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu> EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu writes:
>Nets didn't match the Pistons $10 mill/5 year offer, so formerly restricted
>free agent Mills is a Piston!

Shouldn't the ! have been a )-:  ? Mills did pretty well last year, but
no way is he worth that money. Did the Pistons put a weight clause in
the offer sheet? Mills has never lived up to his highschool press clippings,
and I don't think he'll be a big help to Detroit. At least he's relatively
young though.





Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
WARNING: POTENTIALLY OFFENSIVE JOKE FOLLOWS.

49er kicker Mike Cofer tried unsuccessfully to commit suicide the other day.
Cofer tried to hang himself, but was unable to kick the chair out from under
his body.
********************************************************************************
From: lange@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Trent Lange)
Subject: Re: Magic's back
Organization: UCLA Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 00:25:06 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.172408.10330@Princeton.EDU> hariharn@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ramesh Hariharan) writes:
>In article <38793@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> aminkoff@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Tony Minkoff) writes:
>
>Now that THE MAGIC is going to back on the court, there are 2 interesting
>questions that pop up....  
>
>1) How easily is LA going to adjust to the 'no-magic' games?

Who cares?

He'll be playing every game in the real season.  And that's what counts.

- Trent Lange

-- 
*************************************************************************
*                             Bravo, Magic.                             *
*************************************************************************
From: hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: pervis ellison
Date: 2 Oct 92 17:43:27 GMT
Reply-To: hira@cme.nist.gov
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology

In article <1992Oct1.232610.2644@ramon.bgu.ac.il>, elda@chen.bgu.ac.il (elda weizman ) writes:

|> Is Pervis Ellison still injured, or is he 100% fit for the season?
|> Anyway, is he as good as his stats look?- they are VERY impressive.
|> Is the guy a future all-star?

Pervis is a very good player, not a star yet. He should be 100%,
but his being injury prone is of great concern. He really hasn't
played a *full* season yet. He plays out of position every night,
Center instead of PF. I think that his ppg is a bit inflated 
because of the dearth of shooters that the Bullets have. He's
playing much better D now, and seems to be 'round the ball for 
lots of boards. He runs the floor very well for a big man.
Let's hope that he keeps improving and doesn't get hurt.
The Bullets should be running a more uptempo game, since they
have no real outside threat, and are undersized.

Ron
From: CS19241099G@LUST.LATROBE.EDU.AU (Chris Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Gaze in the NBA?
Date: 4 Oct 92 04:09:39 GMT
 <1992Oct1.160809.10473@cci632.cci.com> <1992Oct2.070420.1790@lugb.latrobe.edu.au> <1992Oct2.165838.16957@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
Organization: La Trobe University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

In <1992Oct2.165838.16957@ennews.eas.asu.edu> koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu writes:

> In article <1992Oct2.070420.1790@lugb.latrobe.edu.au> CS19241099G@LUST.LATROBE.EDU.AU (CRAWFORD, TROY) writes:
> >
> >Ahhh! So Overton was never a standout college player?  Of course, that is why
> >he got drafted 2nd round 40th by the Pistons!  I thought Hornacek got drafted
> >46 a few years before hand....ummmm....a good way to judge!
> 
> Bad example, Hornacek is a rare case.  First, he had to walked on at
> Iowa (State?), then was the 12th man on the Suns his rookie year (one of
> the worst rosters in the NBA at the time).  Probably the only reason he
> remained on the team was that the rest (litterly!) fo them were traded
> or released during the drug scandles.  The Suns keeping Hornecek was
> probably as much luck and circumstance as anything else.  There aren't
> too many allstar second-rounders out there - anyone have the numbers?

Ohh very good reply *grin*!  So my contention that initial success is not
always the path that many take to reach is incorrect?  Which is what I was 
trying to point out!  My claim here revolves around players not achieving 
immediate success, and that they still can develop!!!  Dennis J stated that 
Overton was a wash-up, because he didn't make an impression in Detroit, I
was saying that like Overton, Gaze didn't set the world on fire at Seton 
Hall or at the olympics, but he still had what it took to play in the NBA!
There are always exceptions, to both sides, Gaze can still play and no doubt
Hornacek can!!! Good luck Hornacek at Philly and good luck Gaze if he tries
to make a roster again!!!

> --
> Harry Koehnemann
> koehnema@enuxha.eas.asu.edu




==============================================================================
=  Chris Jackson                     = "The insignificance of detail, a ploy =
=  La Trobe Univesrity               = superficially made to disconcert the  =
=  E-MAIL :-			     = individual! Imbeciles filling the void=
=  CS19241099G@LUST1.LATROBE.EDU.AU  = of reason."  - Jim Morrison.......... =
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: jamesd@techbook.com (James Deibele)
Subject: Magic un-retires
Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 23:06:09 GMT

Just heard on the radio that Magic has officially announced that he's
coming back to the Lakers.  He will play 60 games this season, and won't
play back-to-back games.

I'm disappointed.  While I think it's good that someone can show that
getting tested HIV+ doesn't mean that you drop dead, I don't think that
Magic will ever be as good as he was.  Not necessarily because of HIV+,
but because he's another year older.  

I thought he was not at the same level on the Dream Team as he was with
the Lakers.  Granted, he would become more used to the Lakers over the
course of a season, and he was rusty, but the Lakers don't have 4 
superstars out there with him.  

I thought that he went out on a legendary note.  Yes, the Lakers were
overwhelmed by the Bulls, but Magic upset the Blazers (I'll never forget
him flinging the ball down the court in game 6 to make sure the Blazers
couldn't foul) before that.  And his performance in the All-Star Game,
and being a part of the Dream Team ... 

Never having been in the spotlight myself, it seems to me that a lot of
Magic's reason for coming back is to get back in the spotlight.  The
public is fickle, and they've got new heros to watch.  I thought Magic
was a terrible announcer, but I was willing to put up with that 
indefinitely in recognition of what he's meant to the game.   But does
anybody think that getting Magic back will make a major difference to 
the Lakers?  They can get Magic, and Bird, and Dr. J, and Kareem, and 
Wilt, and whoever else they want.  Against Portland, Phoenix, Utah,
Golden State, the Clips, and Seattle, it isn't going to matter.  The
Lakers are going to be a lottery team soon, and the sooner they get there, 
the better.