From: tom@europa.lonestar.org (Tom Kimball)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Date: 19 Aug 92 06:46:50 GMT
Organization: Moria Mining Guild (BBS) -- Dallas, Texas, USA


In article <Bt4pp3.Dq@apollo.hp.com> nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
>In article <1992Aug14.172502.183@europa.lonestar.org> tom@europa.lonestar.org (Tom Kimball) writes:
>>In article <BsvrJ5.4Fu@apollo.hp.com> nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
>>>   all that --  SOMEONE has to pay for that European employee's wages
>>>   when he's partying on the coast of Spain or fishing in some lake
>>
>>I think this is too simplistic a view.  For one thing, many (most?) Americans
>>would be glad to trade some of their earnings for more vacation time. 
>
> I agree that some might.  But I don't think it's that widespread.  Most
> people I know who are self-employed (i.e., those who actually have a
> choice in the matter) work LONGER hours than those working for others.  

Everyone I know complains they don't have enough spare time.  My impression is
that a large portion of Americans, quite possibly the majority, want more 
vacation time.


>>Also, consider that a certain percentage reduction in working time does not
>>necessarily equate to an equivalent reduction in productivity.  Quite often
>>the result will be the reverse.  That is, a reduction in working time will
>>result in an overall increase in productivity.  That is because the less
>>time you spend at work, the more focused you are on your work during the 
>>remaining time.
>
>  If this is true then why are the two most productive nations on earth 
>  (unit output per man hour -- source: Economist Dec 18, 1991) Japan and
>  the US -- which also have the least vacation time?

Some points:
1. The Japanese get 50% more vacation time than Americans!!  (3 wks vs 2 wks)
2. The American economy is in far worse shape than most people realize, due
   to the federal budget deficit. :-(  This will drag down productivity.
3. You have overlooked the possibilty that countries may be productive in
   spite of rather than because of low vacation rates.  As a contrary example
   take Germany.  They work 36 hrs/week with 6 weeks vacation/yr, and they
   are one of the most productive nations in the world.  Before they absorbed
   East Germany, their economy was in much better shape than the U.S.


>>  If that is not the case, then the economy benefits anyway,
>>because more people will be hired resulting in less unemployment.
>
>  More people will only be hired if the companies in question can afford
>  to do so!   If I get less work out of the workers I have but am expected
>  to pay them just as much then how will I afford to hire more?  
>
>  Now I agree that it *might* be good for employment if companies required
>  fewer working hours AND offered pay and benefits which were less by the
>  same amount.    That way the company can afford to hire more people.

If we do get more vacation time and it turns out that every worker gets less
work done as a result, then we can assume our earnings won't rise as much as 
they would have, in order to compensate. There is nothing wrong with that.  
Companies will have more money to hire workers and -- guess what?  We won't 
have to pay as many people not to work.  The result will be this:  The people 
who are working can work less, and to make up for it, fewer people will be 
forced to not work at all.  The icing on the cake is that society will have 
to mail out fewer unemployment (and welfare) checks.


>> I suspect that total U.S. GNP would increase if Americans had more
>> vacation time.
>  Suspect all you want but offer some evidence.

Obviously, the only way to produce your evidence is to go ahead and do it.


>  Look, in this economy companies are always looking for ways to boost 
>  productivity and gain some kind of edge.  If shortening working
>  hours was the key then you'd think it would be more widespread. 

Never underestimate the conservatism of bureaucracy.  There are also various
built-in incentives for employers not to give much vacation time, which
I'd rather not go into.


>  But in most places where people have more vacation time it's a result
>  of government or union coercion.  

Unfortunately this is true.  Maybe we should learn from Europe and use
political means to gain more vacation for Americans.

The Europeans get 6 weeks/yr vacation to Americans 2 weeks/yr.  It may be
that they earn a little less because of this, but their lives are richer
as a result.  [In fact, 3 times as rich as Americans]
-- 
Tom Kimball  			tom@europa.lonestar.org    
tom@europa.lerctr.org   	tom%europa@egsner.cirr.com
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc