HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: BARRON@RHQVM14.VNET.IBM.COM
Subject: Apogee Centaur Minor, Snell EIIIJ, Theil 1.2
News-Software: Usenet 3.0
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Reply-To: BARRON@RHQVM14.VNET.IBM.COM
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Disclaimer: This posting reflects the poster's views, not those of IBM
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:11:18 GMT

I did some listening yesterday to the above mentioned speakers in a
local store and thought I'd forward my comments.

Source material was Dianna Shurr, Pure Shurr Track 3, Telarcs Mozart Requium
Track 12, and ZZ top "Jesus Just Left Chicago".

I was looking in the $1000-$1500 price range.

Apogee Centaur Minors - Great Image/Sounstage.  Image slightly behind the
speakers.  Fantastic on imaging of voices.  On the Mozart, the soloists
were perfectly placed and distinct.  However,  no bass to speak of, and
outside of the plane of the speakers (veritcally or horizontally) they
fall apart drastically.  Even standing up destroys the sound.  Also very
little dynamics.

Theil 1.2 - I don't know what fuss is about.  There was nothing special
about these speakers.  Unsatisfactory in all categories.

Snell EIII model J - Very impressive.  The soundstage was well defined and
generally forward of the speakers.  Very impressive dynamics.  Good ballance.
Definitely the most to my tastes out of the three, and also the least
expensive ($990 list).  These are also quite a bit bigger (on stands) than
I expected.

My other option now is the Magnapan 1.5s.  These still sound great
to me, although I have to check out the dynamics more.  Also, if I ever move
there is no guarentee that they will fit into a new room.  Also in the
running are the Audio Concepts Saphire IIti/Sub 1 combo.  These may offer
the best compromise of sound v. $$$ v. placement options.

Note:  I use the system for video so dynamics are important.

db

Dave Barron - IBM Network Systems

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: sethb@fid.Morgan.COM (Seth Breidbart)
Subject: Re: Apogee Stage subwoofers
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: my opinions only
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 15:39:07 GMT
	(5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AB01467; Fri, 14 Aug 92 18: 35:25 -0400

Crossover frequency is around 70~75 hz, slope is 12 db.  They were
specially designed to be phase-matched to the woofers.

There is a volume adjustment built into the crossover.  The subwoofers
are about the same size as the dedicated stands (slightly deeper,
maybe 1" taller).

They are very back-ordered at this point.

Seth		sethb@fid.morgan.com

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: yen@stsci.edu (Felix Yen)
Subject: re: Dealings with the Cable Company
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:09:27 GMT

Tak Cheung (tcheung@gandalf.rutgers.edu) writes:
>  I would like to know fellow netters about dealings with the Cable Company.

I bought my speakers (Legacy Satellites) from them almost a year ago
and was somewhat disenchanted with the experience.  I'm quite happy
with the advice I got from their president, Bob Stein, i.e. I'm quite
happy with the speakers, but just about every other aspect of the
sale was flawed.

    +	They didn't mail me product literature when they said
	they would.

    +	The product literature was ambiguous and even incomplete
	at times (the speakers each have a defeatable high-pass
	filter that was not mentioned in the literature), and
	they were unable to answer simple questions about the
	speakers.

    +	Bob Stein quoted me a price over the telephone and the
	product summary that was mailed to me had the same price
	written on it, but the price I actually paid was higher
	($548 vs. $498).

After I decided to keep the speakers (there is a trial period; the
customer pays any return shipping costs), I called them to express
my dissatisfaction and was given the old "put it in writing" run-
around.  So I wrote them a very polite two-page letter.  Stein
wrote me a short reply in which he accepted responsibility for the
erroneous price quote.  I wouldn't be posting this if his letter
had a $50 check enclosed.

I'm not accusing them of being unethical.  I think they made some
honest mistakes in my case.  But I feel more comfortable doing
business with people who don't make these kinds of mistakes.


Felix
yen@stsci.edu
From: rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com (Dana Rigg)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
Subject: Re: Speakers for < $500
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:04:45 GMT
Reply-To: rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola, Inc.
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu


On 10 August, vogelv@spot.Colorado.EDU (VOGEL VINCENT PHILIP) wrote:

>>I am looking for the best speakers I can get for under $500.
>>
>>I'm not too concerned about bass limitations.
>>
>>I have a Denon ___-860 Preamp/amp and an Onkyo CD player.
>>
>>I am considering Paradigm 5se/3se or Paradigm Phantom.
>>
>>I thought that it might be best to find a soft pair since my system tends to
>>be on the bright side.
>>
>>I would much appreciate a list of any speakers you think I might want to
>>listen to.  I have heard that Paradigm has few rivals for the $$$. 
>>Thanks.

Try Dana Audio in Austin, Texas.  I don't have their address or phone number
handy, but information in Austin (area code 512) will have their number.  Its a
small, two-man shop that deals mail-order only.  They have two different
speaker models, the larger being a two-way for $399 I think.  Some friends and I
listened to these speakers not too long ago while in Austin and we all had high
praise for them.  They offer a trial period (15 days I think) in which you can
return the speakers if you don't like them.

I have no affiliation with the company.  I'm simply impressed with their speakers.

Dana Rigg
rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: kucharsk@Solbourne.COM (William Kucharski)
Subject: Re: Adcom bashers, et  al: missing something?
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc., Longmont, CO
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:09:31 GMT

While reading article <PSU.92Aug10120337@ptero.cs.duke.edu>, I noticed that
psu@cs.duke.edu (Peter Su) said the following:
 >It seems to me that if we have made any progress at all in the many
 >years that we have studied audio, there should be *some* kind of
 >guiding principal to putting together a good system (or, say, the best
 >system) besides listening to every possible permutation of all
 >interesting equipment.  Surely some factors must be more important
 >than others...example: the room changes the sound more than any piece
 >of cable possibly could.

Alas, this depends greatly on the equipment in use.  Some speakers are more
forgiving in amplifier differences than others, so in those systems changing
amps might not be as important as changing speaker cable.  In other systems
with more revealing speakers, changing amps might be the biggest thing you
could do to improve the sound.  For many reasons, audio systems are like an
equation with many, many unknowns; you can't make a blanket statement saying
that "Z" will make the biggest change in the system without knowing what "A"
through "Y" are.

Stereophile does attempt to do some of this, saying such things like the
tweeter panels of the Infinity IRS Betas should only be driven with tubed
amps, or that a certain amp's "dark" character would not be a good match with
a particular speaker.  Beyond that, it's up to your ears to decide.  The only
thing they could do beyond this is to pick some components from the last
"Recommended Components" list that they feel would make a particularly good
match with the component reviewed.
-- 
| William Kucharski, Solbourne Computer, Inc.     | Opinions expressed above
| Internet: kucharsk@solbourne.com   Ham: N0OKQ   | are MINE alone, not those
| Snail Mail: 1900 Pike Road, Longmont, CO  80501 | of Solbourne Computer, Inc.
| President, "Just the Ten of Us" Fan Club        | "Dittos from Longmont, CO"

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: dfk0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (David F. Keppel)
Subject: Re: Power conditioners, Comparisons thereof...
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Lehigh University
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:39:59 GMT

>     I,ve also heard good reports from audiophiles all over the country regardi
>ng the absolute necessity of first installing dedicated 15 or 20 amp circuits,
>complete with Hubbell hospital-grade outlets. Don,t skimp on parts; get them in
>advance because your electrician (unless he's an audiophile) will have no clue
>as to what you're talking about. This is roughly 50& of the solution and the PL
>C accounting for the other 50% improvement.

An electrician should know especially if they are contracted to wire hospitals.
(all hospitals seem to be adding on these days).

Can anybody explain the difference between a "hospital" grade outlet as
opposed to a residential or commercial one?  What affect does this have
on audio?

thanks,



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
|          David F. Keppel -  The Computing Center -  Ext. 84019     |
|          179  E.W. Fairchild/Martingdale Library Bldg. 8B          |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The many ways one can spell potato: potayto; potaito; potaitoe; potaytoe;
poetayto; potatoe. So how can we blame Dan Quayle? Quail; Kwail; Kwayle;

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: oracle!mlin@uunet.UU.NET (Michael Lin)
Subject: Opinions on Dahlquist speakers?
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Reply-To: oracle!mlin@uunet.UU.NET (Michael Lin)
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, CA
Distribution: usa
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:18:23 GMT
	(queueing-rmail) id 212934.977; Wed, 19 Aug 1992 21: 29:34 EDT


Has anyone had any experiences with the new line of Dahlquist speakers?

I listened to the previous generation a few years back and was suitably 
impressed.  However, my cash position left me unable to do anything about it.
Fortunately, things change in time, and I am wondering if they still compare
to some of the speakers regularly mentioned here (Thiels, Vandersteens, etc.)

Thanks for your advice.

Mike.



Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: jl@whamt.att.com (Joseph A Lapenta)
Subject: Sumo (recommendations & comments)
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 15:38:34 GMT


Well, I'm about to the leap into REAL high end, and want to
replace my Hafler XL-280 power amp and DH-110 pre-amp.  A dealer I
visited sells a brand called Sumo.  I haven't listened to anything
yet, but if this gear sounds as solid as it looks, it should be a
definite winner.  Specifically, I'm interested in the Athena
pre-amp and the Andromeda II power amp.  I can get these pieces at
reasonable prices.  Can anyone tell me about this brand?  Can
anyone make any other recommendations of other brands in this
level of gear (Forte comes to mind)?  I listen to every kind of
category of music.  

Thanks in advance!

Joe LaPenta


Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: rice@scws6.harvard.edu (Ken Rice)
Subject: 5881 Tube Questions 
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Museum of Comparative Zoology
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:05:28 GMT

This is for a VTL Stereo 50/50 basic amp.  I had thought these 
amps used Russian KT-66 output tubes, but this one contains 
VTL-labeled 5881 from the USSR.  A couple of questions arise:

Where (other than VTL) can I get these tubes?  Neither ARS 
nor Tubes by Design show this tube in their ads.  

What sort of tube is this, and what relationship (if any)
does it bear to the KT-66?  A pointer to a reference is
fine here.  In fact, if such a reference exists, I'd be 
grateful to learn of it.

I'll post a summmary or forward emailed replies if 
there's interest.

Thanks,
Ken


-- 
----
internet: rice@mcz.harvard.edu rice@husc.harvard.edu
  bitnet: rice@husc.bitnet

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: John Stimson <jstimson@jarthur.Claremont.EDU>
Subject: Speakers, Finally!
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 13:04:29 GMT
          15 Aug 92 20: 19 PDT


Since I've been pestering y'all all summer about speakers, I thought I'd
tell everyone who's interested that today, I purchased a pair of Vandersteen
2Cis.  After listening to Thiel CS1.2, CS2.2, Snell K/II and J/III, PSB
Stratus Gold, Merlin 1+1, Ryan (something expensive), I decided that the
Vandys were not only by far the best buy (especially used), they are strong
contenders for the best sounding speakers I've heard.

The Thiels were too dry, but very precise, with great imaging.

The Snells had lousy imaging - one might say erratic.  Instruments drifted
from one side to the other extreme suddenly!  Part of this might have been
bad positioning (instead of a listening room like everyone else, these people
had a rack-o-compnents-and-speakers room).

The Stratus Gold are all around great, but more expensive.

The Merlins had blurred treble.  Not TOO bad, but not as good as anything
else but the Snells.  Also expensive.

The Ryans, besides being quite rare, are extremely in-your-face forward.
Very clear and detailed of course.  Also expensive.

So that's it.  I've found that my Yamaha amplifier is perfectly happy
driving the Vandys, where it choked on my Infinity Reference 3s.

Thanks to all who helped out with info!
							John Stimson
							Harvey Mudd College

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: rshapiro@bbn.com (Richard Shapiro)
Subject: what have we learned (was: Adcom bashers .. )
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: BBN, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:07:08 GMT

In article <PSU.92Aug10120337@ptero.cs.duke.edu> psu@cs.duke.edu (Peter Su) writes:
   It seems to me that if we have made any progress at all in the many
   years that we have studied audio, there should be *some* kind of
   guiding principal to putting together a good system

You have a mistaken idea of what constitites progress, I think. I
would counter that the more we learn, the clearer it becomes that
there are few general principles here that are of any use in the real
world. There's only a great mass of fairly chaotic detail that each
individual needs to organize for him or herself in a suitable fashion.
The more you learn, the better equipped you are to create and refine
purely individual parameters that apply to your specific situation,
tastes, and aesthetic values. But the search for general principles in
this domain, as in any aesthetic domain, is misguided from the start.
This is exactly where objectivism goes wrong: objectivists are on a
quixotic and essentially religious search for The Great Truth where
there just isn't one. Subjectivists (or skeptical empiricists, as they
should really be called) have given up on this naive fantasy. I'd say
that's quite significant progress.

   Has 15 yrs. experience with this stuff not taught them *anything*?

Sure. It's taught them that mediocrity is the most common result when
fictional "principles" are taken as fact. It's taught them to trust
actual performance more than theoretical models. It's taught them to
use their ears in a more critical and sophisticated manner. All hard
lessons which plenty of people have yet to grasp.

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: bbaker@novell.com (Brad Baker)
Subject: Re: Eminent Technology Model 8s
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Novell Inc., San Jose, Califonia
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:09:11 GMT

In article <19920810.062231.761@almaden.ibm.com> BARRON@RHQVM14.VNET.IBM.COM writes:
>Recently I spoke to a dealer over the phone trying to find prices on
>Magnapan 1.5s (Which I have given up on finding a discount).
>
>The dealer suggested (since he didn't carry mags) that I audition Eminent
>Technology Model 8s.  These sell for $1500 as opposed to the $1350 for the
>Mag 1.5s.
>

I listened to them when shopping for speakers.  If I remember
correctly, they were using some huge VTL monoblocks and EAD playback.
In my oppinion they lack a great deal of detail, and don't image worth
a damn.  The bass driver does not integrate well with the panel
drivers, and the panel drivers popped audibly when driven moderately
loud (possibly due to the panel diaphram hitting the housing).  I
bought a pair of Demo Genesis speakers.  A world of difference.  I
would recommend auditioning the PSB line.  I've heard good things about
them.

Brad

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: wood@uk.tele.nokia.fi (Peter Wood)
Subject: Re: KEF Status?
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications, Transmission Product Development,
	Cambridge, UK
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:40:21 GMT
  (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <rec-audio-high-end@fuug.fi>); Tue, 18 Aug 1992 10: 45:53 +0300

>>>>> On 16 Aug 92 15:38:22 GMT, weems@cs.umass.edu (CHIP WEEMS) said:

Chip> Celestion the audio company was owned by another Celestion, which is a
Chip> conglomerate (I think they're big into baked goods or something like
Chip> that -- one of our UK readers can probably set us straight).

Ladies' Underwear!

Chip> Chip

Pete
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Peter Wood,   Nokia Telecommunications,  Transmission Product Development -
-                    Cambridge, UK.  Tel:  +44 223 423 123                  -
- External Email: wood@uk.tele.nokia.fi         Internal Email: NTL02::WOOD -
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: bower@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Tyson Bower)
Subject: Re: metal tape info is needed
Summary: Type IV tape does not cause excessive head wear. 
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Distribution: na 
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 19:02:59 GMT

No more than type I or II tapes will.
From: koonj@hpsgl1.sgp.hp.com (Koon-Jan LIM)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 10:03:06 GMT
Subject: Re: B&O
Organization: Asia Peripherals Division, HP Singapore
Newsgroups: rec.audio

In rec.audio, koonj@hpsgl1.sgp.hp.com (Koon-Jan LIM) writes:


    Any opinions on the sound quality of the Bang and Olufsen Beosystem 2500?
    Sound clarify is the objective besides being compact and small.
          ^^^^^^^
    Thanks. Email if possible.


    Sorry, should be sound clarity.
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: wood@uk.tele.nokia.fi (Peter Wood)
Subject: Re: Audiolab amps
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications, Transmission Product Development,
	Cambridge, UK
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:44:43 GMT

>>>>> On 14 Aug 92 09:00:12 GMT, smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) said:

-> In article <1992Aug13.223156.29246@leland.Stanford.EDU> ianchan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Ian Hin Yun Chan) writes:
>I'm wondering what people think of the Audiolab 8000 pre/power amps as compared
>to similarly priced Adcom gear. That is, of course, assuming that people have
>_heard_ of Audiolab before.... What are their prices, and where are they
>available? Audiolab is British, BTW, and I'm interested primarily in their line
>level inputs (read: I don't play LP). A few key specs would also be
>appreciated.

A few months ago I was wondering whether to buy a second hand pre/power
combo.  A dealer had an 8000P power amp and a Musical Fidelity Pre3A pre-amp
which we took home for the weekend, to sit between our LP12 and Epos ES11
speakers. 

Sounded horrid.  Well, not objectionable, just flat, boring and lacking in
detail.  And this is compared to a Creek 4140 integrated.  Lots more heft
than we were used to, but it was like a veil in front of the speakers.  (Sort
of like Hawkwind's last tour, if anyone else here saw them in the UK...).

We took it back to the dealer and said thanks but no thanks.  He said he
thought we might say that, and blamed the pre-amp.  Not having any more time
or inclination to explore further, we left it at that.

Not sure what the point of this story is, other than to say that I've had an
experience with an 8000P that wasn't unreservedly happy, though that may well
not have been its fault.  Oh, and a plug for Hawkwind as well...

Cheers
Pete
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Peter Wood,   Nokia Telecommunications,  Transmission Product Development -
-                    Cambridge, UK.  Tel:  +44 223 423 123                  -
- External Email: wood@uk.tele.nokia.fi         Internal Email: NTL02::WOOD -
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: fff@microplex.com (Fred Fierling)
Subject: Blown tweeter in Avid 100 Speaker
Organization: Microplex Systems Ltd
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 01:20:06 GMT

I have a 10 year old pair of Avid 100 speakers, one of which has blown its
tweeter.  Avid no longer makes speakers and told me when I called that they
have no replacement parts.  What kind of results am I likely to get if I
buy some off-the-shelf tweeter that fits the mounting hole?  Or is the
tweeter so closely matched to the crossover that this won't work well.
Can someone suggest a supplier for such things?
-- 
Fred Fierling    fff@microplex.com       Tel: 604 875-1461   Fax: 604 875-9029
Microplex Systems Ltd   265 East 1st Avenue   Vancouver, BC   V5T 1A7,  Canada
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: philip@rous1.umbc.edu ()
Subject: Info request: Naim amplification
Reply-To: philip@rous1.umbc.edu ()
Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:16:56 GMT

I own a Naim 62/140 pre-power combo and I am finding that I need
more power than the 140 can offer. 

The obvious option is to upgrade to a Hicap/250, the problem being 
that this would cost me about $3600 after I trade in my 140. However I get
the feeling that a more cost effective option might be to  sell the Naim and
buy a domestic amplifier. That way I do not get killed by the
exchange rate/markup between the U.K. and U.S.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I would be particularly interested
in hearing from people who have switched from Naim to other products.

Thanks in advance



Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Just How Stupid Am I, Anyway?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 21:53:11 GMT

glad@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Clayton Glad) writes:
: 
: I've been using a theme song for my weekly radio show, playing about
: 1 minute of it off the vinyl.  It's just now occurring to me that
: this may not be the wisest thing to do with a record that's more or
: less irreplaceable.  I haven't wanted to put it on tape for 
: reasons of studio logistics.
: 
: Am I in deep denial?  Will I trash this disk by playing it weekly
: with styli of variable quality?

The short answer is yes. Even with the best of styli, tone arm and
turntable - every time you play a record, you are going to cause
unrecoverable wear to the record. It may take years to do any noticeable
damage, with good equipment - with a cheap or improperly adjusted
turntable, you could cause noticeable damage the first time you played
the record.

If you want to maximize the life of the record, record the track on
tape. Only rerecord when the tape copy wears out.

Bill
From: myers@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Myers)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:49:20 GMT
Subject: Re: Power supply question
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA