From: kwelch@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Jack Kerouac)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: Re: What needs to happen to discuss these issues productively.
Date: 7 Apr 92 00:31:38 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

David
>Kevin

>>An infant does not have full capcity, just like a fetus. 



>Kevin, (Jack), an 8 week fetus has *no* capability.

I did not say an 8 week fetus.  I said a fetus.

>It basically has no
>brain.

Compared to your brain, it has no brain.  It does have a brain, however.

>The most value its "brain" would be is as a protein suppliment or
>tissue for research. Because it has *no* capability,

No capability to do what?  Synapse?  Transmit?  WRONG.  8week fetuses
have definite brain activity.

>and a late term fetus
>or infant *does* have *some* ability (there *is* capacity for some thought,
>understanding, reasoning, recognition, insert any human quality you wish)
>albeit it small. Here is a distinction; small versus none. This is a very
>large 'ratio' if you will. I would have to say that a strong distinction
>exists between an 8week fetus and an infant or a sleeping person or a 
>comatose victim (provided their brain is not dead).

You keep switching from a late fetus to an 8week fetus.  YOu say at one
time a fetus has capability then you close it by saying an 8week fetus
does not, then you drop the issue.  I think there is a strong distinction
Z an 8 week fetus and an infant too.  Does this preclude it from rights?


>> Invalids
>>do not have full capcity, just like a fetus.  Severly retarded people don't
>>have full capcity, just like fetuses.

>What are you calling severely retarder? Cannot blink? Cannot do calculus?

I would call retarded unable to perform surface integrals...:)

No, seriously retarded individuals that have no capcity to communicate
with individuals, have no understanding of what individuals say, cannot
take care of themselves, etc...they just don't meet personhood criteria.

>Let's not use retardation as a reference as there are *hundreds* different 
>types as well as a continuum of degree of severity.

That's why I use severely retarded.  And no, I won't avoid it.  It's pertinent
to the conversation...that's like saying let's drop the fetus, as there are
many stages of fetal development, etc...



>>  (third tri-fetus).  Larry, the
>>fetus has plenty of axons and dentrites and synapses.


>PLEASE qulify the amount of development of the fetus. An 8 week fetus is
>*extremely* different than a 6 month fetus in every respect.

Sure it is.  It's not any less human though.

>A young enough fetus has no neural functionality whatsoever while a late
>term fetus has a wonderfully complex and functional neural network in working
>order.

What is functionality to you, David?

>>  But it isn't these
>>which allow the transmission for thought.  It is myelination that
>>allows for this wonder...something a fetus has around 24 weeks.


>Precisely why we make a distinction between 8 week fetus and 32 week fetus.

But there is no distinction when it comes to rights...that is my argument,
regardless of personhood.

kcw



--
Laocoon and her two sons                                 -=( Kevin C. Welch )=-
Pressured by the storm try to move          -=( kwelch@eniac.seas.upenn.edu )=-
Love them more emotion bound
Martyr misconstrued							-R.E.M.