From: hsims@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: Spoken Like a True ProLifer
Organization: Clark University
Date: 5 JAN 93 03:01:08 GMT

In a previous article, vengeanc@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () wrote:
>hsims@vax.clarku.edu writes:
>>You do not have a right to force me to use my body to support a fetus.  You 
>>are not forced by law to donate bone marrow or kidneys to save other people's 
>>lives.  Why should pregnant women have less rights than you?
> 
>I don't think you understand... you got YOURSELF pregnant. 

Now there's a neat trick.  I did that all by myself?

>I'm simply
>forcing you NOT to murder the helpess, unwilling victim of your hormonal
>lack of control.  I'm not forcing you to DO anything you haven't already done.

If you are forcing me to give birth, you certainly are.  And by the way, who 
are you to judge whether I have a problem controlling my hormones?  My sex 
life is none of your business.

>They are, however, actions that an adult must deal with like an adult.  

Having an abortion can be a responsible decision.  You have not convinced me 
that it isn't.

>The baby had no choice in the matter.  Don't call it a fetus because I
>doubt you know what a fetus really is.
> 
>Many actions we undertake in this world are not illegal by definition, but
>they do require taking responsibility.  I can LEGALLY buy a gun and keep it
>in my house.  If my child finds it and blows his brains out, I am responsible
>for MURDERING him.  Having sex is just like driving after drinking (lets
>say below the legal level of intoxication).  Even if you think you are being
>careful, driving slowly, if you don't react in time to an emergency and you
>kill someone, you are a murderer.  It's not manslaughter, it's murder.  
>Why is it murder? Because when you CHOSE to start drinking (have sex), and
>then even more stupidly to drive your car, you became responsible for 
>whatever happened that evening.
> 
>Having sex is exactly the same thing.  Once you have CHOSEN (pro-choice?)
>to have sex, you must grow up and be responsible for the result of that
>action.  

You seem to have this fixation on controlling women.  Who are you to tell me 
or anyone else what we MUST do?  

>You are the perfect liberal.  You believe that you do not have to take
>responsibility for your own actions, ie. having sex.  The world must sacrifice
>any moral values to satisfy your desire for unrestricted pleasure.  

I'm more than willing to take responsibility for my actions.  I'd appreciate it 
if you wouldn't make up lies about me.

>These are the facts... there is NO statistical variation in the decline
>of abortion related deaths before and after the 1973 Roe v Wade decision.
>In other words, the legalization of abortion had NO effect on the safety
>of abortions.  90% of all ILLEGAL abortions before Roe v Wade were done by
>licensed physicians, in their offices!  The figures quoted by NARAL were
>patently false, and they have since ADMITTED that they lied through their
>teeth.  (NARAL is one of the primary forces that convinced the Supreme Court
>to rule for abortions in Roe v Wade).  NARAL claimed 5,000 - 10,000 women
>died every year from illegal abortions.  The actual figure was more like 50
>women.
> 
>So in fact, statistically speaking, proscribing abortion would probably
>DECREASE the number of women killed each year from abortions.  If nearly
>all illegal abortions are done by "real" doctors, then those women who
>decided to break the law would still be in no greater danger physically.
> 
>Chew on these for a while.  References available upon request.

He's a request.  Please post the references.

>Edward Simmonds- Standard disclaimers

				.... Heather.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion