HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Chicken
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:54:10 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

In article <16nmw7.analyst@netcom.com>, analyst@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>
> Steven Schwartz asks why meat has to be bled to be Kosher but fish does
> not.
>
> I don't know if this will help him, but meat that is not bled has a lot
> of uric acid in it. That's what gives meat its flavor, by the way, and
> why Kosher meat is so tasteless. If you need any motivation to become
> a vegetarian, or at least eat Kosher meat only, (warning-following
> material not suitable for sensitive stomachs), whenever you eat a
> piece of non-kosher meat it is as if the animal were peeing in your mouth.
>
> The other interesting thing is that meat becomes tender because of
> putrefaction bacteria. They are normally kept in the animal's colon
> by osmotic pressure, but when the animal dies, they migrate into its
> body. Hanging meat to increase its tenderness and flavor is simply
> a way to let the putrefaction bacteria do their work.  Yes, putrefaction
> bacteria are the ones in the animal's feces.
>
> Thus whenever you eat meat, it's analogous to some animal peeing and
> defecating in your mouth. Are you sure you want to keep eating that stuff?
>
> Fish, of course, don't urinate in the mammalian sense, and thus the
> uric acid issue isn't relevant, and they are tender enough that we
> don't hang fish to rot, to make them tender, as we do with meat.
>
> Maybe the early Rabbis somehow figured this out without a chemistry set.
>
> David
> --
> David Sternlight        David Sternlight Inc.        email:analyst@netcom.COM


I find the above quite interesting. A few months ago I posted on SCJ a list of
references in the medical literature that explained why a mixture of milk and
meat might induce adverse effects in the body, and the comparative toxicity
of blood obtained from different animals killed by arteriotomy (SHECHITA) vs.
that obtained by killing animals by other methods. Apropos to what David
mentioned about putrefaction, another paper dealt with redox phenomena
occurring in skeletal muscle in arteriotomized animals vs. animals killed by
other means.

The references were:

American Journal of Physiology  1931;XCVI:662
American Journal of Physiology  1932;XCVII:662
American Journal of Physiology  1932;102:138
Arch Inter Pharmacodyn et de Therap  1935;LI:236
"  "  "       "        "   "   "     1934;XLIX:175
Journal of Biological Chemistry 1935;110:101

Finally, to those who are reticent about eating meat that is KASHERED (via
salting and soaking) you needn't worry about the salt: a recent note in the
FASEB JOURNAL (1992;6(4 Part 1): A1160 ) indicated that a LOW salt diet causes
a *decrease* in heart rate variability (a decreased heart rate variability
being associated with increased risk of post-infarct mortality).

So maybe the Rabbis *did* know something we didn't know.


Josh

Dr. Josh Backon
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL








Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ejk@coral.JPL.NASA.gov (Elya Kapelyan)
Subject: Re: looking for an apt in J'lem
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, NASA/Caltech
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:59:49 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.155128.11311@nynexst.com>, schwartz@nynexst.com (Steven Schwartz) writes:
|> 
|> In article <1992Jul24.131308.6019@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
|> > In article <22013@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
|> > 
|> > >Just to remove any possible doubt, Gilo is in the occupied territories.
|> > >--
|> > >Yigal Arens
|> > >USC/ISI    
|> > 
|> > Isn't USC in US-occupied Mexican territory?
|> > -- 
|> > Sam Saal      homxb!saal OR saal@homxb.att.com
|> 
|> No, Sam, it's in the European-occupied Native American territories.
|> -- 
|> Steven H. Schwartz		Expert Systems Laboratory
|> schwartz@nynexst.com		NYNEX Science and Technology Center
|> PROFS: SCHWARTZ@UNIX		500 Westchester Avenue
|> 914-644-2960			White Plains NY 10604

	No, both of you are wrong.  It is Human-occupied Buffalo territories.

	Elya
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: vijay@wizards.austin.ibm.com (Vijay Joglekar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.lebanon,soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: CFV: alt.us.visas
Date: 21 Jul 92 15:44:38 GMT
Reply-To: vijay@wizards.austin.ibm.com
Organization: IBM (Aix Tools Development)

How about creating a group called alt.us.visas.  By the addition of this 
group we could help folks mostly interested in visa information from any 
country to get that information easily.  A FAQ will also be helpful. 
This will moderate many of the soc groups. 


**********************************************************************
               Vijay Joglekar - arbiter elagantiarum
 Disclaimer: These are my opinions and my opinions only. Has nothing
                      to do with where I work.
            Littera scripta manet: Credo quia absurdum
**********************************************************************
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Israeli Arab factor in elections
Date: 23 Jul 92 10:29:42 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In <4048@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:

>I'd like Rabbis to be trited as other persons.

Me too.  My criticism of the late Rabbi's actions is in no way related
to his having received Rabbinical ordination.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire universe		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very narrow hamantasch.
 |warren@      But the principal
/ nysernet.org is not all that concerned.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saroff@uf.msc.edu (Stephen Saroff)
Subject: Re: NPR on KKK convert to Judaism
Reply-To: saroff@msc.edu
Organization: AHPCRC, Minnesota Supercomputer Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:35:10 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.120742.28118@eng.umd.edu>, rig@eng.umd.edu (Ronald Greenberg) writes:
|> 
|> National Public Radio just had a story about the KKK guy who was
|> befriended by the Nebraska cantor he originally harassed and who
|> converted to Judaism.  You might be able to catch it if you have a
|> radio station with a late broadcast of Morning Edition.  For example,
|> on WAMU in Washington, DC, it will be on again around 9:45.  In
|> general, the piece ends at 11 minutes before the end of the two hour
|> broadcast.  I don't recall how long the piece was; it might start a
|> little earlier than a quarter to.  It's probably not worth going out
|> of your way to hear, but if you have a radio handy, you might want to
|> listen to it.
|> -- 
|> 
|> Ronald I. Greenberg	(Ron)		rig@eng.umd.edu



It was interesting.  Particularly as NPR almost never says anything good
about Jews.
-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Stephen Saroff <saroff@msc.edu>                 o o  The Bear who Swims      
Minnesota Supercomputer Center                  (_)_____o      
1200 Washington Ave. S                       ~~~~(______)~~~~~~~~~~
Minneapolis, MN 5514 <612/626-1854>              oo    oo
From: ed16+@andrew.cmu.edu (Etan Shalom Diamond)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Travel on Tisha B'av
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:58:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.gePWtxu00WBO47JVE0
Organization: Doctoral student, History, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Okay, here's the deal:

A friend is travelling to Italy during the first week of August.  She is
returning on Sunday, 9 August, which is Tisha B'av.
When does she fast?  When does she stop fasting?  I think she is leaving
Italy Sunday morning and arrives at Kennedy Airport Sunday afternoon. 
Does she start fasting Saturday night Italy time or does she wait until
it is time to satrt fasting in NYC?  And does she end her fast New York
time or Italy time?  She really would rather not fast more than she has
to. (What a surprise!)

Does anyone have an idea?

------
Etan Diamond
Dapertment of History
Carnegie Mellon University
ed16@andrew.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: avr@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (adam.v.reed)
Subject: Kashrut and multiple refrigerators
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 00:42:41 GMT
Summary: A Hiloni joke about ...

In article <1992Jul24.153218.3970@godzilla.quotron.com>, jeff@godzilla.quotron.com (Jeff Marder) writes:
> The Rebbe's kitchen contained separate refrigerators for meat and dairy.  Under
> the laws of Kashrut, can't meat and milk products that are COLD be stored  
> together  (in separate milk and meat containers of course)?????

I heard the following joke on a very secular kibbutz:

Israeli customs inspector to Haredi oleh:
	You can only bring in appliances duty-free if they are
	for your own use. Yet I see you've declared 5
	refrigerators.
Hared: The second is so I don't have to throw out all the meat
	if I happen to spill some milk in the first.
Inspector: And the rest?
Hared: The cracks are so hard to clean, I'd rather "sell" the
	first two to a goy for pesakh, and use the third and
	fourth.
Inspector: But the fifth?
Hared: So I should spoil the kashrus of a whole refrigerator
	just because I like sometimes a bissl ham?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Anti-Orthodoxy (was Re: O-C-R debate)
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:32:07 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University

In <84588@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P
Wiener) writes:

>In article <dfs.712284318@data>, dfs@doe (David F. Skoll) writes:
>>>Let me see.  Conservative and Reform Jews DON'T think they're right?

>>Sure they do.  But they *don't* say that Orthodox are wrong.

>That is certainly a lie.

Please give examples of official positions from Reform or Conservative
leadership which state that Orthodoxy is wrong.  (I'm not talking about
individuals; as someone else pointed out, there are intolerant people
in every group.)

--
David F. Skoll
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41)
Subject: Re: NYT OpEd: Black Demagogues and Pseudo-Scholars
Reply-To: eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu
Organization: MIT Lincoln Lab - Group 41
Date: 30 Jul 92 11:25:53

In article <CYTRON.92Jul29194755@helios.dfci.harvard.edu> cytron@helios.dfci.harvard.edu (Andrew Cytron) writes:

Cytron reproduces an article by Henry Louis Gates Jr. entitled "Black
Demagogues and Pseudo-Scholars".  This is an excellent article, one
that I urge everyone to read.  Its only minor flaw is that it falls
into a trap of its own devising.

>   ... However shoddy the scholarship of works like "The Secret
>   Relationship [between Blacks and Jews, published by the Nation of
>   Islam]," underlying it is something even more troubling: the
>   tacit conviction that culpability is heritable. For it suggests a
>   doctrine of racial continuity, in which the racial evil of a people is
>   merely manifest (rather than constituted) by their historical
>   misdeeds. The reported misdeeds are thus the signs of an essential
>   nature that is evil.

But the heritability of culpability is one of the cornerstones of
racial relations in America.  Children of oppressors owe children of
oppressed money, jobs, housing, land, and special legal rights in this
country.  Whether you consider it right or wrong, such heritability of
culpability is codified in the law of the land.  I think that Gates
uses this argument when it is convenient to make a point.  Later he
uses nearly the opposite concept:

>   ...And so the organizer of the event [a forum was held at the
>   Church of St.  Paul and Andrew, in New York, earlier this spring], 
>   Melanie Kaye Kantrowitz, did.  Her
>   voice quavering with emotion, she said: "I think I speak for a lot of
>   people in this room when I say 'I'm sorry.' We're ashamed of it, we
>   hate it, and that's why we organized this event." Should the Melanie
>   Kantrowitzes of the world, whose ancestors survived Czarist pogroms
>   and, latterly, the Nazi Holocaust, be the primary object of our wrath?
>   And what is yielded by this hateful sport of victimology, save the
>   conversion of a tragic past into a game of recrimination?  Perhaps
>   that was on the mind of another audience member. "I don't want an
>   apology", a dreadlocked woman told her angrily. "I want reparations.
>   Forty acres and a mule, plus interest."

It seems that the claim is that Ms Kantrowitz and her ilk should
somehow inherit immunity from the wrath of blacks because they too
were oppressed generations ago.  This requires that victimhood be
inherited, whereas culpability is not.  Yet the two are inherently
intertwined; there are no oppressed without oppressors.
--
=Jim  eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)
From: rdtst+@pitt.edu (Richard D. Thorne)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: The Tale of a Jerusalem Mohel
Date: 31 Jul 92 18:20:24 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

| I can not  deny that this "mohel"  had told Boaz that story  but it is
| almost surely not true.  Besides  the rather disgusting concept that a
| Jew would first perfect his skills on Arabs before he touches a Jewish
| babe, one has to remember that Moslems circumcise at an age of about 8
| to 13  years (they do  not firmly do  it just at  age 13), thus  it is
| unlikely that they would let an  unskilled person perform for them, as
| even expertise in the Jewish version (which this man did not yet have)
| would not make him ready to operate on Muslims.
| 
| >-- Boaz
| 
|     Michael Shimshoni
| 

   Maybe the operation is easier since there is a size difference. It
   is possible that no ill will is involved.

		Richard rdt@med.pitt.edu
From: hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz)
Subject: Re: What is Jewish religion? (long...)
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:47:51 GMT

In article <FAIGIN.92Jul22113722@soldan.aero.org> faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin) writes:
>On Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:52:03 GMT, lerner@cs.columbia.edu (Michah Lerner) said:
>
>
>So, what makes someone Jewish, in general. Answer: Agreement with some set of
>beliefs. What defines this set? It can't be one particular movement, because

The question as you phrase it is not what makes an individual
Jewish [we can agree on born or converted and argue about the
details of what born or converted means in all the other threads
(:-)] but what makes a movement or a belief Jewish.  That is where
is the line drawn.  (see below)

>by definition that set would be biases. We must look at the intersection of
>the systems to find a least common denominator that makes someone Jewish as
>opposed to Christian or Islam or ...
>
>Note that it is not, as Michah says, a belief that the Torah was given by
>HaShem. Not all Jews believe this (all Orthodox Jews do). Perhaps it is the
>more general belief in HaShem. Perhaps it is a belief that there is some
>connection -- be it inspiration or writing -- between HaShem and the Torah.

Does this mean that you do not consider Reconstructionism (which is 
a belief in "Judaism as Civilization") or Humanism (which I
understand as fully secular) as nonJewish beliefs?  Again once you
move the line, how do you stop?

>
>Daniel

_______________________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz        |    Im ain ani li mi li             |
| H_Markowitz@att.com     |    Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha      |
|_________________________|____________________________________|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: O-C-R debate
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:03:58 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.155513.5126@umbc3.umbc.edu> shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:


>But weren't you the exception?  How many third-generation Sunday
>school kids can still be identified?  

I'm fifth-generation.

>   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      

	-Nora
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Judaism at Democratic National Convention
Date: 22 Jul 92 18:04:23 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Jul21.175642.20966@cabot.balltown.cma.COM> heller@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (Aaron J. Heller) writes:

>Actually, this is a fairly tame account of what happened.  Nixon
>feared a Jewish conspiracy at the Bureau of Labor Statistics.  So in
>1971, he asked Malek to prepare a list of officials at the BLS who
>were Jewish.  After Makek produced his report, two of the Jews he had
>identified were reassigned.

"Two of the Jews...".  Out of how many?  Reassignment is common.  If
they are the only two, I'd be suspicious.  If there were a few dozen
or a few hundred (how big was the BLS?), then two is not significant.
-- 
   |)  David Charlap           "I don't even represent myself
  /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu   sometimes so NJIT is right out!.
 ((|,)
  ~|~  Hi! I am a .signature virus, copy me into your .signature file.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shdan@tudorct.com (Dan Shimoff)
Subject: Re: Travel on Tisha B'av
Organization: Tudor Investment Corporation, CT
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 12:16:00 GMT

In article <gePWtxu00WBO47JVE0@andrew.cmu.edu> ed16+@andrew.cmu.edu (Etan Shalom Diamond) writes:
>Okay, here's the deal:
>
>A friend is travelling to Italy during the first week of August.  She is
>returning on Sunday, 9 August, which is Tisha B'av.
>When does she fast?  When does she stop fasting?  I think she is leaving
>Italy Sunday morning and arrives at Kennedy Airport Sunday afternoon. 
>Does she start fasting Saturday night Italy time or does she wait until
>it is time to satrt fasting in NYC?  And does she end her fast New York
>time or Italy time?  She really would rather not fast more than she has
>to. (What a surprise!)
>
>Does anyone have an idea?
>

How about, since she shouldn't be travelling on Tisha B'av anyway she
should fast from start Italy time to end of NYC time.

I really don;t know the answer to this one, but some concern must be 
taken WRT not-fasting in public on TB.  Probably should speak to a 
rabbi about this one, but if you don't get a chance, better to be safe
and not eat at all from Italy time to NYC time.  Eating on TB is a serious
no-no.


-- 
Dan Shimoff               Am Yisrael          \ 
Phone: (212) 602-6798     B'Eretz Yisrael       A recipe for success.
Address: shdan@tudor.com  Al Pi Torat Yisrael / Read any Kook books lately?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: murray.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Helping anti-Semites (was Re: Another Holocaust)
Date: 25 Jul 92 19:44:34 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton

> shape of a Magen David?  Give his buddies something to think about...)
> 
> That story reminds me of one that happened in Ottawa about six months
> ago.  A would-be neo-Nazi went to a tailor's store to have a swastika
> sewn on his jacket.  The place was owned by a Holocaust survivor.  The
> tailor sat the skinhead down and explained exactly what the swastika
> meant, and why he would not sew it on.  Luckily, the skinhead was not
> a true racist, but just being swayed by peer pressure, so he went away
> "converted."  It's not often that happens.  Maybe we should get the
> tailor to talk to Arf.  (Hi, Arfie!)
> 
How do you feel the jewish community in South Florida should react to a 
Klan march coming up in August. The Klan promises to be selective in this 
march and only target Jews; the Federation and the ADL do not believe in 
counter demonstrations and the Klan is cute, they will march on Saturday 
afternoon.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: O-C-R Debate
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 04:31:14 GMT
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Jul27.234859.8564@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>If one is an atheist, then, he/she does not believe in God, and that's it.
>If one is an Orthodox Jew, she/he has a set of rules to follow, and that's it.
>
>However, reading what Daniel says (and what Nora said before), there is an
>open door in Reform Judaism to interpret the religious law.
>However, we can agree, I hope, that a person grows up in a society, and that
>that person absorbs the basis of that socity.
>We were not born in a Jewish socity, nor were we born all in the same place.
>And, because of that, our view of the world is "contaminated" with values that
>are not Jewish but Christian, for example.

Probably true. But I don't interpret based on my 'values' -- there are
a number of things I am forced to concede are law that conflict fairly
strongly with values that I've learned in growing up and have a hard time
putting aside. My response is to pray for a better understanding of why
the law is the way it is, and to obey the law in the meantime.

It is my deductive methods, not my values, that are at issue here. And
I believe I owe myself and my religion no less than to determine in the
way I believe most likely to be accurate just what the law I am expected
to obey means, so that I can be sure I am obeying it correctly.

My values are Jewish ones in that they are derived from Torah by the
most accurate method I know for derivation. I think the sages were wrong
on some of their reasoning, and for that reason I do not always follow
what they said, but my reason for not following them is not because of
values that differ from Judaism, but from a difference as to what details
in particular these values require of us. My methods are not cultural-
specific any more than the laws of physics are. A is A.

>So, if you do not follow the rules as given, and you can create your own,
>how can you be sure that you are a Jew?

I'm a Jew because I was born one; that simple. How I can be a better Jew
or what I must avoid in order not to be a worse one are the questions on
the table. Unless you're prepared to question my parentage, there is no
basis for the above query.

>AAP

	-Nora
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: NYT OpEd: Black Demagogues and Pseudo-Scholars
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 13:45:15 GMT

In <EGGERTJ.92Jul30112553@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu>
eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41) writes:

>>   Melanie Kaye Kantrowitz, did.  Her
>>   voice quavering with emotion, she said: "I think I speak for a lot of
>>   people in this room when I say 'I'm sorry.' We're ashamed of it, we
>>   hate it, and that's why we organized this event."

>It seems that the claim is that Ms Kantrowitz and her ilk should
>somehow inherit immunity from the wrath of blacks because they too
>were oppressed generations ago.

"And her ilk??"  Just what did Ms Kantrowitz "and her ilk" do, apart
from attending forums to improve race relations and fighting for civil
rights?  Perhaps Mr. Eggert could clarify this sentence.  After all,
he and "his ilk" were resposible for oppression of Blacks, too.

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________