HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jhardy@milton.u.washington.edu (J. Hardy)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: MSR Firefly
Keywords: stoves
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:41:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: milton.jhardy.711736912
Organization: University of Washington

I am considering purchasing a rebuilt Firefly stove from the MSR factory here
in seattle.  Before 
I do this I was wondering if anyone out there in net land had any experience
with these stoves.  My primary concern is whether they will do any better
job of simmering than the whisperlites do.  It seems to me that they probably
should as they have an additional valve control after the generator.  I 
realize that MSR no longer makes these stoves.  Their report to me is that
they stopped making them because they became to expensive to manufacture.
They do continue to support the stove and make rebuild kits for it however.

Any comments on how these stoves compare to the whisperlite and to the 
Coleman stoves would be greatly appreciated.


Thanx

jim hardy
jhardy@milton.u.washington.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rjk@iastate.edu (Russell J Kraemer)
Subject: Re: Chevron - People Do?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:39:49 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.005153.25971@eos.arc.nasa.gov> jbm@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Jeffrey Mulligan) writes:
>Any of you who watch television probably know what I'm talking about:
>those schmaltzy ads where a couple of engineers replace some baby
>bunnies in their nest after the pipeline construction is finished;
>"Do people really go to that much trouble so that baby bunnies blah
>blah blah?" [Fade to Chevron logo] "People Do."
>
>So my question is, do you think this is just a bunch of BS, or is
>Chevron (or any other oil company) actually significantly more
>environmentally responsible that the others?
>

Its BS. People may do these things, Chevron dosent.
Wonder if they got bitched at in real life by the supervisor for wasting time.


>-- 
>
>	Jeff Mulligan (jbm@eos.arc.nasa.gov)
>	NASA/Ames Research Ctr., Mail Stop 262-2, Moffett Field CA, 94035
>	(415) 604-3745


-- 
rjk@iastate.edu                 

I think therefore I.......shoot, was I saying something?
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: mk59200@cc.tut.fi (Markku Kolkka)
Subject: Fuels around the world (was Re: MSR Whisperlite)
Organization: Tampere University of Technology, Finland
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 11:41:44 GMT


In article <price.711655848@helios> price@helios.unl.edu (Chad  Price) writes:
>rtp1@quads.uchicago.edu (raymond thomas pierrehumbert) writes:
>>No.  I don't know what "petrol" stands for in Finland, but "lamp oil"
>>and "Kerosene" are definitely not White Gas.  
>
>"Petrol" is gasoline.

NO! We were talking about Finland, not England.  In Finland "petroli" is
kerosene.

--
	Markku Kolkka
	mk59200@cc.tut.fi
From: jbm@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Jeffrey Mulligan)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Chevron - People Do?
Date: 28 Jul 92 00:51:53 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center

Any of you who watch television probably know what I'm talking about:
those schmaltzy ads where a couple of engineers replace some baby
bunnies in their nest after the pipeline construction is finished;
"Do people really go to that much trouble so that baby bunnies blah
blah blah?" [Fade to Chevron logo] "People Do."

So my question is, do you think this is just a bunch of BS, or is
Chevron (or any other oil company) actually significantly more
environmentally responsible that the others?

-- 

	Jeff Mulligan (jbm@eos.arc.nasa.gov)
	NASA/Ames Research Ctr., Mail Stop 262-2, Moffett Field CA, 94035
	(415) 604-3745
From: David.T.Greenfield@dartmouth.edu (David T. Greenfield)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: MSR Whisperlite
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:48:18 GMT
 <1992Jul21.164018.20859@rsg1.er.usgs.gov> 
 <1992Jul21.191324.7488@pbhyg.PacBell.COM> 
 <1992Jul21.194959.25741@rsg1.er.usgs.gov>  
 <1992Jul23.145401.10458@marcal.uucp>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In article <1992Jul23.145401.10458@marcal.uucp>
marc@marcal.uucp (Marc Veeneman) writes:

> ssnyder@sunai.er.usgs.gov (Steve Snyder) writes:
> 
> >In article <1992Jul21.191324.7488@pbhyg.PacBell.COM> smmyers@PacBell.COM (... .. ...) writes:
> >>
> >>He said Zippo...  I can't remember the name of the lighter fluid that you put
> >>in Zippo's, it comes in different brands, the most common being a yellow
> >>bottle with blue writing


I believe it's called Ronson.  BTW, it was Jimi Hendix's fuel of choice
for lighting his guitars on fire.  He used it at Monterey in '67.

David
david.t.greenfield@dartmouth.edu
From: landauer@morocco.Eng.Sun.COM (Doug Landauer)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Chevron - People Doo?
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:30:44 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: morocco

> "Do people really go ... [Fade to Chevron logo] "People Do."

Was this commercial and/or slogan written by someone whose native
language was American English?  I guess almost any slogan, name, or
corporate logo can be taken wrong (e.g., the "double-cross" in Exxon),
but this slogan has always made me think of "people-doo" in analogy
with "dog-doo".  (For you not-quite speakers, this is a common American
euphemism for excrement.)

So when I'm avoiding the "horse doo" on the trail, or the "people doo"
in the worse neighborhoods of San Francisco, I always think of
Chevron.  Do any of you readers here from Chevron have any input into
Corporate Marketing?

	-- What?  Sign this?
From: roat@rrc.chevron.com (Suzanne Roat,Chevron,(510)242-5313)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Chevron - People Do?
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:10:21 GMT
Reply-To: roat@rrc.chevron.com
Organization: Chevron, Richmond, California

In article 21@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com, phil@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com () writes:
>
> CHEVRON IS GENERALLY CONSIDERED ONE OF THE WORST ENVIRONMENTAL OFFENDERS. 
>THIS IS MARKEDLY TRUE IN 3RD WORLD COUNTRYS


Care to elaborate here?  Seems to be a pretty general, stereotypical,
environmental fruitcake response to me.  How about a little substance to
your statements?

Asbestos underwear on.  Flame away.
---
Suzanne Roat				Phone:	(510) 242-5313 Voice 
Chevron Research and Technology Company		(510) 242-4647 FAX
100 Chevron Way				Email:	roat@rrc.chevron.com
Richmond, CA  94802-0627

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: High Altitude and Asthma
Keywords: altitude asthma
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 18:01:41 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.192217.2212@Princeton.EDU>
sproule@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (William J  Jr. Sproule) writes:
>and we are concerned about how high altitude (5000 -> 12000 ft)
>will affect my asthma.  Anyone have experience or advice?  
						   ^^^^^^
Ask your personal physician.
Other advice you will get from the net is bad.

I had pretty bad asthma as a kid.  In the last few weeks (3? 5?),
I spent the majority above 5K (lots over 8 and 12K) ft.  I enjoy lots
of running around at 14K.  But its largely not an issue for me.
And I usually carry the usual medications, but rarely use them.
Also first time at certain altitudes have certain effects.

The problem is what causes your asthma.
Age is another set of variables.

>Followup-To: sproule@princeton.edu
>WJ - Networking  	Princeton University

Really!
Need to learn about Headers.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: gascan@dcst16.dc (Bill Gascoyne)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: GPS
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:01:04 GMT
Reply-To: gascan@dcst16.dc
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

In article 4189@equinox.unr.edu, dirk@wheeler.unr.edu (Dirk Cockrum) writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.213238.20837@lsil.com> gascan@dcst16.dc writes:
>>GPS stands for Global Positioning Satellite. 
>
>GPS stands for Golbal Positioning System.  
>
>Dirk Cockrum
>DRI, UNR

That depends on whether you're launching them or using them.  In this context,
I stand corrected.
---
1. Bill Gascoyne
From: ajs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Alan Silverstein)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Cairns, Flags, and Fixed Wands
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:13:05 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

Cairns:  an emotional and ambivalent subject, isn't it?

I don't have a strong argument, just a personal perspective.  I like
cairns because they give me a warm fuzzy feeling about someone else
having been there before (even if they were lost too).  I enjoy finding
"I was here" cairns and sometimes build them.  But then I have no
illusions about being the first or last to visit an area so I don't mind
sharing it.

Then again I often go off-trail where cairns are rare and surprising.

I notice but am only mildly annoyed at cairns that are larger or more
frequent than is necessary.  They still don't mess up the larger view of
the land, and that's why I'm there.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: carnes@ico.isc.com (Steve Carnes)
Subject: Re: Swiss Army Knife the best?
Organization: Interactive Systems Corp., Boulder CO
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 22:36:22 GMT


For all you backcountry winos caught sans corkscrew, here's a little tip I
learned on the isle of Iona (off the coast of Mull, west of Scotland):
    Insert small blade of one knife vertically between cork and bottle, all
    the way up to the hilt.  On the other side of the cork, insert blade of
    second knife, but with blade pointing in opposite direction.  Carefully
    grasp both handles and turn knives in direction *away* from the blades.
    Cork will slide right out.
-- 
Steve Carnes       carnes@ico.isc.com        uucp: {ncar,nbires}!ico!carnes
   "Rock gives reality to the otherwise abstract notion of transhuman
    time." - Edward Abbey
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: no tent works 3 days in the rain
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 17:32:56 GMT

In article <Jul27.223129.49350@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>
trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>However, somebody told me recently that burning a candle in the tent
>drys up most of the moisture.  Any testimonials to this?

I doubt it: 1) the candle adds its own H2O vapor and 2) the latent heat of
vaporization is far above that produced by a candle for even a small tent
for a given volume.  But don't don't listen to me, sly empiricist Wayne,
I commission you to "Go do it!" 8^)

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: kevins@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Kevin G Smith)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 23:15:56 GMT
Subject: Goretex Tents?
Organization: HP Stanford Park - Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

Does anyone on the net know of any tent makers (large or small) still
making Goretex backpacking dome tents?  That is, a lightweight, no-fly, 
Goretex only tent intended to breathe and be waterproof in a single fabric 
layer.  

I am looking for a model similar to a friend of mine's which I share on
occasion.  It is only starting to wear out now after about 
10 years of continuous use.  His model is a 2-3 man tent, no fly but with 
built-in ground cloth and with 3 shock-cord loaded segmented dome poles.
It has the usual mosquito net entrances etc.  It's a great tent as long 
as you are not in multi-day pouring rain hence excellent most of the time in 
the Sierras.  I believe it was manufactured originally in Oregon.  Any leads
are appreciated.

Thanks and cheers,
Kevin

*******************************************
* Kevin G. Smith                          *
* Email: kevins@hpspd.hp.com              *
*******************************************
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Backcountry Improvisations (Was: Swiss Army Knife)
From: derek@fivegl.co.nz (Derek Tearne)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 04:15:45 GMT
Organization: Fujitsu New Zealand

In article <Jul17.155244.46235@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
 
>I too keep a sven saw in my truck, along with a shovel, jumper cables,
>misc tools, tarp, etc.  What I really need to add to my box of truck-junk
>is a hand winch.

Tirfor make very good manual winches.  These are so much more veratile than
the macho electric ones you see on Urban Safari Trucks(tm). 

As well as achieving the desired task of recovering vehicles from muddy
ditches you can use it:

as a tow rope.
to remove tree stumps ( winch one out using the next as an anchor)
as an extreme power bar (to free those _really_ sized shock absorber nuts)

Not only that it really impresses people that something so small can actually
work!

Like Eugene said it's not the tool itself but the improvisations you use 
it for which tell in the end.  

On that note has anyone any good stories of impressive/lifesaving 
improvisations esp. using a piece of string and the thing for getting 
girl guides out of boy scouts hooves.

I personally swear by self amalgamating insulating tape, string, my 
SAK and araldite(tm) epoxy resin.

Derek Tearne
-- 
Derek Tearne  derek@icl.co.nz or derek@fivegl.co.nz --Fujitsu SDC,Auckland,NZ

My 'self aware' .signature file failed his Turing test.  
It turns out he was just a chess playing midget in a decorative box.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Re: no tent works 3 days in the rain
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 22 Jul 92 10:03:22 CDT



How about buffalo hide?
From: bes@drutx.ATT.COM (SizerBE)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: GoreTex Tents
Keywords: Yes, there is a company that still makes them, sort of
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:02:50 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: AT&T, Denver, CO


The recent postings about GoreTex tents reminded me of a company in
Boulder, CO that used to make this type of tent.  I gave the company,
Bibler Tents, a call and the woman I talked to told me that they used
to make GoreTex tents, but that is no longer possible because the Gore
Company no longer makes tent-grade (weight?) GoreTex fabric.  Bibler
Tents does, however, still make tents from a GoreTex-clone (as she put
it) fabric called ToddTex.  The person I talked to at Bibler Tents also
confirmed the speculation someone made that GoreTex (as well as ToddTex),
due to the nature of the fabric, cannot be made flame retardant.

Bibler Tents is a mail-order company and they would be happy to answer
questions about their products.  Their address and telephone number are:

                     Bibler Tents
                     5441-D Western Avenue
                     Boulder, CO  80301
                     (303) 449-7351
From: auden@daisy.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Alan Uden)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: CAMPING IN MISSOURI!!!
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:05:24 GMT
Reply-To: auden@daisy.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Alan Uden)
Followup-To: auden@daisy.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Alan Uden)
Organization: NCR Corporation, Wichita KS

I  will be camping at Table Rock Lake in Missouri in mid august and
would appreciate any info I could get on day hikes in the Mark Twain
National Forest or the imediate area.

                              Thanks in advance
                                Alan

Alan Uden
NCR PPD Wichita, KS.
ncrlnk!ncrwic!daisy.Wichita.NCR.COM.alan.uden
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: franki@prso.pttnwb.nl (Frank van Ierland)
Subject: Re: MSR Whisperlite
Organization: PTT Telecom b.v. The Netherlands
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 12:07:10 GMT

| In article <1992Jul21.143544.7857@brt.deakin.edu.au>, dougcc@brt.deakin.edu.au (Douglas Miller) writes:
| > 
| >   o  "White Gas" = "White Spirit" = "Coleman Gas" = "Shellite".
| >      A liquid petroleum product, mainly octane, with other hydrocrabons
| >      present.   Shell (maker of Shellite) would be worth trying.

Coleman fuel is also widely availeble isn Dutch camping shops. (Ok that
is just a verry tiny part of europe).

	Frank.
-- 
Frank van Ierland                     ||  Domain: franki@prso.pttnwb.nl
Cap Gemini Pandata T&D                ||  Voice : (+31) 70-39.57.206
#include <disclamer.h>                ||  CIS   : 70032,3223
From: smmyers@pbhyg.PacBell.COM (... .. ...)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: MSR Whisperlite
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:13:24 GMT
Reply-To: smmyers@PacBell.COM (... .. ...)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <1992Jul21.164018.20859@rsg1.er.usgs.gov> ssnyder@sunai.er.usgs.gov (Steve Snyder) writes:
>In article <39431@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> paul@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Anderson) writes:
>>
>>I got fed up with matches and disposable lighters, so I bought myself a
>>Zippo lighter. Can I use White Gas (Coleman fuel) in it? What kind of fuel
>>are lighters supposed to use?
>>
>Butane! I would not recommend putting White Gas into a butane lighter, 
>you're likely to have a fireball in your hand. They're meant to be
>disposable anyway (not necessarily environmentally sound). Also, butane
>is a gas (at normal atmospheric pressure) and the lighters work by 
>butane evaporating off when you release the pressure by pressing on the
>button (or whatever it's called) when you light it. So I doubt that
>white gas would work in one anyway, since it's a liquid.
>
>Steve
>
>

He said Zippo...  I can't remember the name of the lighter fluid that you put
in Zippo's, it comes in different brands, the most common being a yellow
bottle with blue writing (I'm sure somebody will follow up to this and let you
know the name.) but you definitely don't use butane... Sheesh...  I don't
beleive that white gas would suffice in a Zippo (something having to do with
evaporation).  But hey, I've never tried it.


Sean
From: richardw@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Richard Wolle)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 18:24:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Swiss Army Knife the best?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry


I find that my one-piece river knife (diving knife)
is the best for peanut butter because it doesn't 
have hinges where pb gunk can hang out.  It also
makes me look tough because I strap it to my
PFD.

Rico


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: venard@bms.com
Subject: Re: Cairns, Flags, and Fixed Wands
Reply-To: venard@bms.com
Organization: Bristol-Myers Squibb
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 21:05:06 GMT

In civilized areas, there are houses and buildings and stuff built by people
for various reasons. And laws to prevent other people from arbitrarily
knocking down those buildings. The moral of this thread seems to be that in
the backcountry, there is no civilization, no laws, no rules. If person A
wants to pile some rocks up by the side of a trail, person B can come along
and kick over the pile, and push person A off the trail if he wants to as
well! Perhaps when hiking in the backcountry it would be best to carry a gun?

-- Robert
From: diverson@phys.ksu.edu (David Iverson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: trail maintenence: a poll
Date: 31 Jul 1992 18:17:46 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: bohr.phys.ksu.edu
Keywords: have you


The question that I have for everybody, is how much have you been involved
in local trail-maintence efforts.

A.  Ever participated in a day or weekend trip to clear dead-fall?

B.  Ever participated in erosion control projects?

C.  Ever participate in hiker education projects?

D.  Ever work on revegitation or Campsite rehabilitaion?

These are just a few of the possible questions.  I'm just trying to get a
handle on how much people are involved in actually taking care of the trails
that they walk on.

I've spent an entire summer working on a trail-crew in New Hampshire and it
was great.  I'm going to do my damndest to arrange my schedule so that I can
go back next summer.  The satisfaction gained from cleaning up a trail is
unbelivable.  Hiking will never be the same, once you've put your body and
soul into a trail.

There are lots of trail clubs out there that are starving for members.  And
bitching about how the other hikers tear up the trails isn't going to fix
anything.  I don't want this to be a flame, but after reading the huge
number of posts on the subject of cairn kicking I got to thinking that maybe
a lot of the people who despise cairns haven't thought through a lot of the
aspects of cairns.  First off, they're really good in foggy winter weather,
they look out of place in the summer.  Second, there are a lot of
inexperienced hikers in this world, and they will invariably hop from cairn
to cairn if they are present and hence stay on the trail.  In their absence
they will invariably muck all over the place, killing alpine vegetation with
every footfall for acres around the trail.  If you don't believe me go up
to the Franconia Ridge in New Hampshire and talk with Guy Waterman and see
the work that he's doing.

As far as other projects go.  Some people are fond of criticizing
soil-retainers on trails (usually mis-called steps) as being unnatural. 
But we have to see that a gully caused by hundreds of hikers is the thing
that is unnatural.  A three foot deep muck hole in the trail is unnatural. 
Trail maintence is an attempt to fix existing damage and prevent the damage
from spreading to the surrounding area. 

Anyway, I would really hope that some of you start thinking about becoming
part of the effort to fix and maintain the trails that we all so enjoy.  And
I hope that you gain a greater appreciation of the environment, a greater
appreciation of your own self-worth, a valuable education, and the ability
to spread the dharma of trail maintence to others from your experience.

By the way, I really do want to here how much other people in this group are
involved in trail/conservation efforts.

-David Iverson

diverson@phys.ksu.edu

Our Trails need more WATERBARS!!



--
diverson@phys.ksu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: stgprao@xing.unocal.com (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Chevron - People Do?
Originator: stgprao@xing
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:47:12 GMT

In article <YeRJSIa00VI=9WM0pR@andrew.cmu.edu> Alon Dominitz <ad2k+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Excerpts from netnews.rec.backcountry: 28-Jul-92 Chevron - People Do?
>Jeffrey Mulligan@eos.arc (621)
>
>> So my question is, do you think this is just a bunch of BS, or is
>> Chevron (or any other oil company) actually significantly more
>> environmentally responsible that the others?
>
>Almost every oil company spends some money on natural preservation, and
>they all spend money on compliance with environmental laws.  However,
>they also all spend even more money _telling_ people about their great
>environmental efforts.  I would say BS is putting it lightly.

Of course everyone would like to walk to the backcountry since oil companies
provide gasoline for vehicles and lubrication for bicycles.
Then we can all carry canvas backpacks and tents since there would be any
synthetic feedstock anymore.
Just like the good old days.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing