HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bhchan@soda.berkeley.edu (Billy H. Chan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,ucb.general
Subject: Re: Racial Harassment at Cal-Are we unclear on concept here?
Date: 23 Jan 1993 09:24:26 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
Keywords: racism

In article <1jqafg$8s9@agate.berkeley.edu> lmartin@uclink.berkeley.edu (Lonnie C Martin) writes:
 >In article <1jokpt$2bn@agate.berkeley.edu> bhchan@soda.berkeley.edu (Billy H. Chan) writes:
 >...
 >>nothing else... anyone who goes around yelling "Look at that African
 >>girl!" towards a black female college student would most probably
 >>get the same result (or get beaten up by her boyfriend >:)
 >...                                                     ^^^ - noted, but...
 >The inclination of the boyfriend to "beat up", would have nothing to do with
 >his race, though.  I, and maybe you, too, cannot tell from someone's race
 >such things as this. And don't start with statistics; they don't matter.
 >...
You're right (and I guess I should have made it more explicit that I was
saying boyfriend with no racial attachment to it)  (though I myself would
probably not date interracially, I don't condemn it either.  What I was
saying was that any girl's boyfriend should probably feel the need to 
defend her (though now I'll probably get burned for being sexist >:)

 >>3) the balconeers mean to insult/harrass/hurt said female by stating
 >>	her area of origin (Africa), and thus neatly avoid using any
 >>	really racist terms, yet achieving the effect of pointing out
 >...

By the way, I don't mean that Africa is a source of insult/etc.etc.etc...

 >This is one of the sadder aspects of racism; that reference to one's origins
 >_can_ be a source of insult/harrass/hurt.  I wonder if it is too idealistic
 >to think that one's origins, whatever that may be, could be a source of
 >pride, or whatever "positive" word you care to choose?  I know that is 
 >already the case in some circles, in varying degrees unfortunately.
 >
Of course, it mostly depends on the tone/intonation/inferred meaning/etc.etc.
etc.  Most of the time, I hold _my_ Chinese heritage in pride (and it really
irks me when _some_ people who claim openmindedness keep generalizing and
making blanket statements (often with loaded words and derogatory terms)
start attacking this.  

 >(balconeers - what a great word. Never heard it before. Can't wait to need
 >it.)  :-)

Danke :)
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Billy H. Chan <bhchan@soda.berkeley.edu> <bhchan@uclink.berkeley.edu>
~{3B:FH;~}    <bhchan@ocf.berkeley.edu>  <c60b-3me@web.berkeley.edu>
"Reality isn't always what you see but what you perceive." ~{?42;<{~}
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Children's Day
Summary: God bless Tiny Tim.
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 06:26:58 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.192957.29627@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu
Ayala) writes:
>In article <1993Jan22.051616.16595@leland.Stanford.EDU>
>underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>In article <c6TPXB3w165w@batpad.lgb.ca.us> larryg@batpad.lgb.ca.us (Larry
>>Greenfield) writes:...
>>>  (except that in Japan, there IS a Children's Day, which is why I 
>>>...
>>Yes, in Japan, there _is_ a Children's day; it is a day when parents
>>celebrate the health and well-being of their children.
>  April 4th is Children's Day in China too.  Which date is it in Japan?

There are 3 separate days that could be construed as Children's Days.
I'll present 2 since they are the most pertinent to the matter at hand.

(1) May 5 - "Children's Day"

It is an _official_ national holiday, recognized by the government of
Japan; most gov't offices are closed.  This day is to celebrate the health
and well-being of the children.

(2) November 15 - "Shichi-Go-San" (3, 5, 7)

This is an unofficial holiday.  Parents celebrate their children's well
-being when they reach the ages of 3, 5, and 7.

It is important to note that there is _no_ such day in the People's Republic of
China and that if there is such a day on Taiwan (which is part of the
People's Republic of China), then the establishment of that day is a
consequence of the 40+ years of Japanese occupation.  Although the occupation
was not perfect, it did have many good consequences, "Children's Day" being one
of them.

As I've said so many times before, Western-cu (and Japanese-cu) love for
their children is vastly different from the love in certain other Asian
countries--one, in particular--in the world.  Consider -
                                                        |

                                                        \/
>>By contrast, there is another country in Asia, where the parents do _not_
>>celebrate Children's Day because there is _no_ such day.  In fact,
>>historically, some of those parents either killed or _ate_ their children.
>>When they are lucky enough not to be killed or eaten, they are treated
>>as one would treat an oxen.
>>Compared to the Japanese-cu and the Americans-cu, those people are truly
>>dic...
>>Have a nice day!

------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                Sister, can you      |   \|  |`
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.           spare a coin?        |    | -+-
                                                                  |   /| / \
Copyright 1992, 1993    Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3                    |
------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,ucb.general
From: timlee@netcom.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Subject: Re: Racialized Relations at Cal...
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american,ucb.general
Reply-To: timlee@netcom.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 05:30:02 GMT

ollie@ocf.berkeley.edu (Oliver Wang) writes:
|Ethnic pluralism exists simply b/c those who can see behind socially created
|illusions can see that assimilation/accomodation doesn't work.  Never has, neverwill.  Besides it's natural for people who identify with others that they deem
|similar to them to form into groups.  And since race seems to be foremost in
|the collective eye sight of Americans, I'm hardly surprised when I see Asians
|(and blacks, etc.) group with other Asians (et al.)  In fact, I support it...
|your ethnic community is going to be one of the last things you can fall back
|on next to your family and friends.  I'd rather be a social realist than a
|blind idealist.  
|
|Besides, how many of you really think that if America was perfectly equal in
|all socio-economic-political spheres that you wouldn't see ethnic pluralism
|anyway?  Sure, I'd expect interethnic interaction increase in such a society,
|but for the most part, Asians will hang with Asians, blacks with blacks, Jews
|with Jews, etc.  A supposedly color-blind society doesn't translate into color
|blind people.

... this is beginning to sound like the (false) choice of "assimilate
or separate" that was mentioned before...

|    What needs to be done however, is greater communication and interaction
|    b/t these groups on campus.  Addressing ethnic groups on campus, there is
|    a lot of ignorance running through each one that prevents people of color
|    from attaining a greater solidarity.  Look at all the strife within the
|    Asian in American community.  It's interethnic, (i.e. Koreans & Japanese)
|    it's interclass (bougies & lower class), it's gender (oh God yes), it's
|    intercultural (2nd gen & newly arrived immigrants, self hate at its most
|    damaging and totally stupid) etc.  PanAsian unity is way off into the future    and Panethnic unity b/t people of color is still further.

How long before _all_ people can interact freely with both their own
and _all_ other groups without negative social pressures (i.e. the
pressures to assimilate or separate)?

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee                                        timlee@netcom.com
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: My last word on ..."You be the Judge!"
From: maridai@ecs.comm.mot.com (Marida Ignacio)
Date: 22 Jan 93 02:18:16 +1700
Organization: trunking_fixed

  "Caucasian Whimps?  You be the judge!"
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 12:32:35 GMT

True.  The title says Phil's intentions:
Evaluation of caucasian 
AND
his mention of MLK is meant to be:
To find caucasian IN COMPARISON TO/WITH MLK.

Case of misunderstanding. AGAIN.

-Marida
 "Eliminate the core (or kernel) of the problem
  then the shell(s) (whatever color/type) shall go 
  down with it"
From: edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: My last word on ..."You be the Judge!"
Date: 21 Jan 93 22:26:44 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: RAND

In article <1993Jan21.071546.19447@colorado.edu> pellouch@alumni.cs.colorado.edu (Philip Pellouchoud) writes:
#[ . . . . ]
#  I don't recall implying, implicitly or explicitly that Dr. King
#was undeserving of the attention he was receiving.  If that's what you
#surmised then perhaps I did a poor job in writing my discussion topic.
#Trust me, I think Dr. King was one of the greatest Americans to ever
#live, BLACK OR WHITE!

Glad to hear it!  Then why is his race such an issue to you?

		-Ed Hall
		edhall@rand.org
From: jpark@rwja.umdnj.edu (John Park)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Loving an Illusion
Keywords: women, asian, media
Date: 24 Jan 93 22:44:17 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Robert Wood Johnson Medical School, Piscataway NJ



It seems that most everywhere, the male point of view is the standard
point of view.  Male judgements on what is important, how things are 
valued, and male opinions in general are usually the norm.
. . . .At least it seems so to my male P.O.V :-)

**warning** **heavy dose of cynicism** **warning**

And so the other gender (the femme), may usually feel the pressure
to shape herself into this male vision of the world.
-- the pressure to be pretty, because males give pretty girls more importance
-- the pressure not to compete with male egos, because males have a
	need to feel dominant over the female. ie. if you don't 
	want to be labeled strange, don't act smarter than the guy.
-- this may result in the identification of the girl with her looks
	girl's self-identity & self worth measure == her looks & body.
	(extreme case: anorexia)

It seems that, when a woman is objectified, it is in one of two common ways:
	1. as a wife/mother object: her main purpose in life is to
	   keep house and bear and raise children.
	2. as a sex object: she is judged by her sexiness, and femininity.
	   (and not her mind, unless it enhances her femininity.)

How does this relate to s.c.a.a. ?
well I think #1 is more prevalent in asia, and type #2 is more prevalent
in america (well at least on TV & movies - that's certain.)

**now this is heavy conjecture:**
If a female grows up in a type 1 household then she is going to be surprised
by a type 2 environment.  Vice versa: a different kind of surprise perhaps.

**now the interracial thingy** -- Loving an Illusion
If one is really in love with his/her asianness/whiteness/blackness, and do not
really know his/her full personality, then it is an illusion you see
and not the person.
And if your Single Other wants to please you, he/she may unconciously 
play into that illusory role, in order not to startle or surprise you.


--J.S.P.

ps - please don't take this conjecture too seriously.  If it was food for
thought, I hope it was only an appetizer.
From: rw@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Russil Wvong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: "Rising Sun" (was Re: Fuck Michael Crichton)
Date: 21 Jan 1993 03:35:11 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Rikiya Asano writes:
> I have very much reservation about this trash called, "Rising Sun" by
> Michael "no Jap" Crichton.

Rikiya, I have a question:  have you actually *read* "Rising Sun"?
Or was it just reading George Will's editorial that wound you up?

--
I've read quite a few of Michael Crichton's books:  "The Terminal Man",
"The Andromeda Strain", "Sphere", "Jurassic Park", "Electronic Life".
"Sphere" and "Jurassic Park" were quite good.  (They both had Asian
American characters, by the way.)

I read "Rising Sun" a few months ago.  I didn't like it much.  The
plot was predictable, with a couple of twists but little suspense;
the characters were two-dimensional.  There was a lot of material on
how Japan is taking over the United States, but in a novel, it isn't
terribly convincing.

I think the deeper problem that we have to face, though, is that the
U. S. appears to be in relative decline, over the long term, with
respect to countries like Japan and Germany.  (Japan's economy is
in bad shape because of the recent stock-market crash, and Germany
is still struggling with re-unification, but these are short-term
problems.)  See "The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers", by David
Kennedy.

This is going to cause (and has already caused) a lot of tension,
particularly between the U. S. and Japan.  We can expect that this
will spill over into hostility towards Asian Americans.  "Rising Sun"
is just drawing attention to the problem.

--Russil
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american
From: barnhart@ddsw1.mcs.com (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: He's Baaaaaaaaaaaaack!
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 02:47:07 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.

frankli@seq.uncwil.edu (william carter franklin) wrote:










Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:11898 soc.culture.african.american:14258
From: Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Caucasion Whimps?  You be the judge!
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 11:45:05 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa
  <1993Jan20.151728.7585@nynexst.com>

I motion that we cancel MLK day and change it to Civil Rights day to 
honor Mr. X, and all those of all races and sexual orientations and
differing abilities just like president's day. I'm still waiting for
Martin Luther King day stereo and car sales just like Washington's Birthday.

Is this a "black holiday", or an Aemrican holiday? I detect even some blacks
who treat this as a segregated holiday.
From: glovercj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: ascii  gung hay fat choy
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:28:38 GMT
Organization: Drexel University

In article <2358@blue.cis.pitt.edu> babar+@pitt.edu (Jonggu Moon) writes:
>
>I once saw an ASCII picture of the chinese characters for
>happy new year
>
>could someone please post it ( since others may want it too )
>
>- jon
>

Hey, I don't really think this is the place for that discussion.

Peace, :-)
Chad J Glover
glovercj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu   or   glovercj@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu 
Drexel University Software Testing Lab
"Give a Man a Fish, you Feed him for a Day,
Teach a man to Fish, you Feed him for a Lifetime."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: My last word on ..."You be the Judge!"
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 19:44:21 GMT

In article <1jn71hINN30i@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu> writes:
>
>Yes, none of these celebrate one, "specific" caucasion Americans. But wht are
>holidays for?  Celebrating an ideal, a victory, a great moment in history. 
>If holidays soley celebrate the person, then I demand a holiday celebrating
>me.  But they don't.  You are missing the point of MLK Day.  It celebrating
>this great American _not_ because he is Black and the PCers say we need a Black
>holiday . . . no, it is celebrating MLK because of the ideals he represents,
>how he led the struggle in that generated the first victories against racism
>(note, not complete victory), and the time in history when people started to
>say that America is for all Americans, not just a certain few.  Americans now
>feel that this is important and want to have an holiday that will cause them
>to remeber this.  

  You're right.  MLK Day is for all of us to celebrate and to keep in mind
  the ideals that he stood for.  Not just an excuse for certain people to
  have parades, and stay home from school. 
>
> Maybe you should look
>at MLK day as a time to remeber that there are people in this nation still seek
>to exclude others from possessing the full rights and responsibilities of being
>an American.
>
  Good point!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: chiou@eucalipto-next.Stanford.EDU ( Chiou)
Subject: Re: Caucasion Whimps?  You be the judge!
Reply-To: chiou@leland.stanford.edu
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 01:42:58 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.225437.13308@leland.Stanford.EDU>  
underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
> In article <1993Jan22.192957.29627@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare  
Chu
> Ayala) writes:
> >In article <1993Jan22.051616.16595@leland.Stanford.EDU>
> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
> >>Yes, in Japan, there _is_ a Children's day; it is a day when parents
> >>celebrate the health and well-being of their children.
> >  April 4th is Children's Day in China too.
> 
> I find this hard to believe.  Is Ms. Ayala referring to the People's  
Republic
> of China?  I don't believe that country has such a day.
> 
> However, if Ms. Ayala is referring to Taiwan, then note that Taiwan is
> part of the PRC and that Taiwan was fortunate enough to have been  
occupied
> by the Japanese for 40+ years, thereby receiving many Japanese cultural 
> influences including Children's day.
> 

To put it mildly, you have a very negative bias toward everything that is  
Chinese.  But no matter how you feel about Chinese culture, you have gone  
too far by suggesting that the 40+ year long subjugation and oppression of  
the people of Taiwan by the Japanese Imperialists was a FORTUNATE thing  
for Taiwan.  Many injustices occurred during that time, never mind the  
human rights violations.  For example, if a Japanese was killed (maybe by  
Taiwanese resisters) in a town and no Chinese confesses to the crime, the  
entire town is blockaded and the sale and trade of daily necessities  
(food, medicine, clothing...) forbidden until someone Chinese steps up to  
take the blame.  In other instances, when the murderer cannot be found,  
100 innocent Chinese people are pulled off the streets and executed for  
every 1 dead Japanese, as a warning.  Do you consider this FORTUNATE for  
the people of Taiwan?  The Japanese forced the Taiwanese to change their  
given Chinese names to Japanese, to speak only Japanese, and otherwise  
abandon their own culture, traditions and identity.  No matter how  
superior you think the Japanese culture is, it is a crime for Japan or any  
other nation to occupy and suppress another culture and its people by  
force.  I will grant you that the Japanese government did introduce some  
policies of improvement during their occupation of Taiwan (such as cleaner  
streets, better organized school system albeit the instruction and  
materials are Japanese, and improved "law and order" as enforced by the  
brutal Japanese military and police forces), but that was hardly any  
justification for taking away the rights and freedom of the Taiwanese and  
force them to subscribe to a foreign culture.  I know you have your first  
Amendment rights to express your views, but please be more considerate  
next time before you make such a thoughtless comment.

--Nancy  (chiou@leland.stanford.edu)
From: wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.MIL (Wm. Douglas Withers -- math  FACULTY <wdw@sma.usna.navy.mil>)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Experiencing racism...
Date: 28 Jan 93 19:56:38 GMT
Distribution: usa,soc
Organization: U.S. Naval Academy

In article <1993Jan27.012550.18631@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
>...That allegations of institutional racism fail to withstand
>analytical thought is a common misconception; it simply requires better
>and more carefully designed studies.

I appreciate your efforts at delicacy in discussing this issue.  At least one
of your conclusions is at odds with my previous impression:

>Upon completion, the [Stanford's study of college admissions] found:
>	1.  There was no evidence of any quota, overt or otherwise,
>		capping the number of Asian-American admittees.

My understanding was that some schools quite openly and unblushingly keep
a lid on the number of Asian-American admittees.  This is supposedly for the
sake of promoting "diversity."  I can't cite sources, but this is something
I saw in Time or Newsweek several years ago.  I'm surprised I haven't seen
this issue on s.c.a.a. before.  It strikes me as a much more important topic of
discussion than, say, "They're stealing our women!"

And I still haven't forgiven you for what you said about Malcolm X.

>I am not Arthur Hu.  I am NOT Arthur Hu.  I AM NOT ARTHUR HU.

Oops. Sorry.
-- 
Els Withers                   email: wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.mil
          phone: (410)267-3192 / fax: (410)267-4883
When orbiting particle-beam weapons are outlawed, only outlaws will have
orbiting particle-beam weapons.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 09:18:03 -0500 
From: Rikiya Asano <ra01+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Fuck Michael Crichton
	<43689@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>

Ms. Maiko Covington writes: (in reply to my responose-">The fact remains
Mr. Ko >that a person who is caucasians wrote this material"-to Mr. Ko's
ascertion-">>Do you really think that this type of remark is going to
help >improve race relations?"- to which he responded to my statement-
"-It would take a white man to do this".)

.

>Oh PLEEEEEEZE. I guess you are saying that because one white man
>wrote an offensive book, no one of any other race is capable of
>doing so? Come on! I thought you were a bit smarter than that.

No. No. Ms. Covington, I'm not saying this. You are! What I said was
what I said. Now, I'm glad that you kinda gave me a chance to respond.
Thank you! Michael " No Jap" Crichton is one of many but not all.





.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Caucasion Whimps?  You be the judge!
From: larryg@batpad.lgb.ca.us (Larry Greenfield)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 93 23:18:23 PST
Organization: The Batchelor Pad

RE: why we don't have a day celebrating any famous white Americans...
First of all, you're wrong. What's President's Day? (Washington/Lincoln)? 
Second, to quote that oft-used phrase about the (American) child who asks 
his mom "Mom, there's a Mother's Day, and a Father's Day... how come 
there's no Children's Day?" and the mother responds "Because every day is 
Children's Day".  Need I say more?
  (except that in Japan, there IS a Children's Day, which is why I 
mentioned an American child...)
:::::Larry:::::

::::::::::::::::::Classical Violinists Never Miss A Beat:::::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::::::::::::We Just Blame The Violas:::::::::::::::::::::::::