From: gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga)
Subject: Re: Observations
Organization: Stay Awake Software
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 22:27:33 GMT

<1992Sep3.152443.26511@advtech.uswest.com> stevens@eatdust (John Stevens) said:
><1992Sep1.204031.20902@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp) writes:
>><1992Sep1.165041.11734@advtech.uswest.com> stevens@eatdust (John Stevens) writes:
>>><1992Aug31.211505.23998@watson.ibm.com> margoli@watson.ibm.com writes:
>>>><1992Aug31.145104.12528@advtech.uswest.com>  stevens@eatdust (John Stevens) writes:
>>>The beliefs that would be legislated (and enforced on others) would be the
>>>belief that abortion is not murder.  In other words, it would enforce a
>>>belief about when a child becomes a human being.
>>>
>>>The people that are being forced to have abortions now, are the fathers
>>>who have no legal recourse to stop a woman from murdering their child.
>>
>>That is a highly rhetorical and simply incorrect response.
>
>It isn't an incorrect response if you admit (and you don't) that abortion
>affects men.  I've heard this before, always from people who seem to
>think that a father is a second class parent.

It's technically incorrect - men are not subject to pregnancy, and only a
pregnancy is *aborted*.

>>Men aren't forced to have abortions.
>
>Yes, they are.  They cannot legally prevent it from occurring, so if they
>don't want their baby aborted, but the mother does it anyway, the abortion
>is forced on the man.

You can't abort a baby.  But besides this, the abortion in this case is
performed without the man's consent.  The abortion is not forced *on* the
man.

>It is extremely short sighted (almost blind) to say that only the person
>who is physically involved is affected by an abortion.  This is akin in
>my mind to saying that only the woman is affected when her wedding ring
>is stolen off of her finger.  Both the wife AND the husband are ripped
>off.  The same with abortion.

Ah, "affected by an abortion".  Well, yes, a man can be affected by an
abortion.  But your original claim was that a man can be forced to have an
abortion.

>>They are currently at the  mercy of their biological 
>>situation. Men do not have the power to give birth to a child.
>
>You slant this rather heavily by ignoring that fathers are the reason
>mothers BECOME mothers.  Without fathers, there would be no pregnancy,
>therefore no need for an abortion, or an abortion debate.

So are you recommending that we eliminate fertile males as a means of
stopping abortion?

>>The best you can hope for is to get used to the idea that you cannot have
>>babies without the kindness of a woman.  I'm sorry.
>
>The best I can hope for is that you will someday realize that no woman can
>have babies without the kindness of a man.

Uh oh.  Boy are you in for it now.


Gordon
Pro-abortion, Pro-person, Pro-women's-rights and ex-boytoy of Susan, Muriel,
Cathi, Nora, Jennifer, Sarah, Lynn, Diana (catwoman), and Diana (Sorceress), 
and married to a goddess among women, and proud of it all.
-- 
The opinions expressed are my own, and not the beliefs or opinions
of whatever company you think I work for.  So there, thhhbbbt!
Message to Kodak:  Freedom for Dan Bredy.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion