HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic weather update
Date: 30 Jul 1992 18:50:13 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <seS0zZS00iUx02wYlM@andrew.cmu.edu> rr3b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rebecca Roolf) writes:
>....  Today it was 70 F at about 10 a.m.... cool
>enough that you can appreciate some warmth, if it's raining, especially.

Ah!  Here we have, I think, not interkingdom anthropology but personal
taste.  70 F is about the point at which I start saying, "Oh, damn, it's
getting HOT again!"

Maybe there's a little anthropology in it... most people in the Mists
(SF Bay Area) feel about the same way.

Reminds me of the story of the time they had a heat wave in London and
the paper said, "75 DEGREES AGAIN TODAY--NO RELIEF IN SIGHT!" --which
is probably funnier in most other kingdoms than in the West or An Tir.

and then she said,
....           ,           ,   ,   ,          
.... Is mise Bronach, ach nil me bronach.
.... Ta Gaeilge beag agam, ach me ag foghlaim!

Translation, please?
I ask because, knowing no Gaelic, I can see repeated words and suspect
there are puns, and what goes through my head is

     Hic jacet rosa mundi, sed non rosa munda ...

     (Here lies the Rose of the World, but not the pure rose...)

which is probably not what it means....


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Argent, a cross forme'e sable

Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
From: hjfeld@pub2.bu.edu (harold feld)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period vs. Filk (was Basic Courtesy)
Date: 31 Jul 92 17:25:54 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <kViPoB2w164w@ailanth.UUCP> ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:
>
>> Mr. Johnstone, it's a darned good thing you live all the way over in
>> Australia or I'd have to come over to your house and give you a big wet
>> raspberry.  Tossing Kipling (the Revered One) in with Jethro Tull's
>> _Broadsword and the Beast_ album is certainly not the worst insult to
>> ol' Rudyard in recent years, but it is one of the ranker ones.
>> 
>nah, that's an insult to the good gentles who make up jethro tull, ti 
>place them in the same league as the person who wrote "white man's 
>burden"...  _songs from the wood_ is my favorite holiday album...  
>whether it belongs at an SCA event, well, that rather depends...
>
>                           -ailsa

Hmmm...Out of curiousity, have you ever read the actual poem?

Also, how do you reconcile your opinion with some of Kipplings other works,
such as "We/They?"
	"All good people agree/and all good people say
	That all nice people like us are 'we'/and everyone else is they
	But if you go over the sea/Instead of over the way
	You may end by -horrible!- thinking of 'we'/As only a sort of 'they'
	You may end up -unthinkable!-/Thinking of we as only a sort of they

Finally, does the racist/cultural supremicist opinion of the author
invalidate his work?  If I believed that, my reading range would
shrink fairly rapidly.  Care to gues how many great authors were
anti-semites?  And, especially for those living in period, its a
fair bet they shared period attitudes.  I postulate you would be hard pressed
to find any pre-20th century literature that came from authors pure of
heart and without bias. 


>
>                ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
> 
>"If it has tires or testicles, you're going to have trouble with it."
>                            _Ohio state Senator Linda Furney

I'd like to join the people protesting this .sig as highly insulting.
How would you feel if a .sig read: "If it has tires or tits, your
going to have trouble with it."
 
In service,  
Yaakov
From: aboz@egf-bbs.uucp (Aboz the Untidy)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Photography has its benefits
Date: 25 Jul 92 15:36:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: egf-bbs.1992Jul25.153635.11877
Organization: EGF, MN Public Access Unix

As a member of a new (6 months) group, I see a number of benefits to
having photos of events.    
At our first meeting, only the seneschale and her husband had ANY SCA
experience.  Their photo albums were invaluable in showing us what could
be accomplished in the way of garb, arts, etc, as well as giving a glimpse
of what events and pennsic might be like.   Untill this past weekend, only
4 of our members had been to an event other than ours, and the pictures
brought back helped encourage attendance.  Sort of like "See what you
missed, you should try to get to these things."

The barony of Castel Rouge in Winnipeg, manitoba (Our closest neighbors)
will often hve "Photo opportunities", posed, staged, etc for the benefit
of the camera bugs.  It is from these pictures I learned of the Viking
invasions on the shores of Lake Winnipeg.

At our first (only so far) event, one of our members was equipped with a
camcorder consealed under a towell.  It was no more obtrusively OOP than
the building we were in, the cars driving by, or the boom box which
provided our dance music.  The resultant edited tape has been used to show
even newer members what our event was like, and what they can look forward to.


-- 
Berwynn Aethelbryght, Pursuivant of the Shire of Elverod, Grand Forks, ND
                BKA (Known on the BBS as) Aboz the Untidy
From: GEN0036@Husky1.StMarys.Ca (GILBERT RICHARD)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: twinkie names
Date: 22 Jul 92 15:05:09 GMT
Organization: St. Mary's University, Halifax, N.S., Canada
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.12.SMU

evilted@vesta.unm.edu writes:

> What I have found is
> that 'of' was not used, but it is often the only way to translate names
> correctly. From the only reference I have handy:(Old Celtic Romances--
> P.W. Joyce, 1962)
> Dierdre Duibhshleibhe -- Dierdre of the Black Mountain
> Curnan Onmit -- Curnan the Simpleton
> There are more, but these will do. Are these names 'twinkie' in their
> English translation but not in the original?

Not meaning to speak for anyone here, but I believe the original point was
names with of <something-not-a-place> were not period... like 'of the Green
Sword' or something like that... whereas 'Black Mountain' sounds to me very
much like a place. Which (I observed) was argued to be the period usage of
'of'...

> I want to get this point clear to me as I will be selecting a name for
> myself soon.
> 
> Thanks for your time.
> -- 
> evilted@vesta.unm.edu             . o        c ,
> bunderw@nyx.cs.du.edu              "#v--  --v#"
>                                    /'>      <`\

-Brynjolfr Myrkjartanarson, Compaignie Mercurie, Seashire, Ruantallan, East

      The unwise man thinks he will live for ever if he shuns fight, but
      Old age gives him no peace though spears may shun him. - The Havamal

          The Net: gen0036@husky1.stmarys.ca, gen0036@stmarys.bitnet
From: graydon@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Graydon)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: "Once upon a Weekend" demo tape
Date: 22 Jul 92 22:03:04 GMT
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.

Greetings!

I've just though of another reason I don't like cameras at events;
they are a bane on privacy.  If people (particularly people as
accomplished as Hal is presented as being) are going to drift around
an event taking candid photos, when can I be sure I am *not* going
to be photographed?

Well, I *ought* to be safe in the garde-robe, but aside from that,
I must at all times be aware that whatever I am doing at the moment
can be presented to posterity, free of context.  This gives a whole
new complexion to cuddling in the corner, accepting cloved oranges,
or being willing to demonstate just what an awful dancer your are.

I think that's a pretty horrible thing to turn a private gathering
into.

Graydon

        Graydon the Curious         /graydon@micor.ocunix.on.ca
  Skraeling Althing, EAldormere, MK / "Nihil est quin obsisti possit"
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: archer@utkux1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Re: lords...
Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:10:33 GMT

In article <ewright.711735898@convex.convex.com> ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) writes:

>You are failing to make a distinction between casual terms of address
>and formal titles.  "Sir" as a term of address -- that is, lowercase
>"sir" not following by a proper name, as in, "Good day, sir," was a
>respectful greeting for anyone of equal or greater rank.  ("Sirrah"
>was the term of address for someone of lesser rank.)  

This was how it was explained to me when I was a newbie.  "Milord" was a 
common form of address, regardless of rank.  "Lord X" was a title, and only 
valid for the entitled types.

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: blaxson@shade.UWaterloo.ca (Brian A.Laxson)
Subject: Re: Dancing at Pennsic
Reply-To: balaxson@systems.watstar.uwaterloo.ca
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:06:49 GMT


Lothar writes:

>	In the meantime, some acoustic tiles and a place for people to
> go who don't want to dance, but who do want to rest, talk and be warm
> would be cheap and simple solutions. Anybody got any ideas?

Well, as a suggestions, why not hold a barn raising.....there by making  
another place for people to go.  It could also be a chance to use period  
methods for construction and stuff.  From what I've heard of building you  
could get it done in a day or two if you had alot of enthuasits helping  
(i.e. all ye gathered SCA members).

The building could be taken down at the end of war, or if the grounds  
owner's are willing to, to let it stand so it could be reused.  Maybe if  
that happened for a few years you would have built the main parts of  
village and use it for other demo stuff (blacksmiths, town meetings,  
jousting lists???, administrative buildings, a battle scence, etc, etc.).

Brian Goodhart, Butterer of the Many Loaves
From: Stephen.Whitis@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
From: jschmidt@oolong.Tymnet.COM (John Schmidt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: More Murphy's Laws of Combat.
Date: 21 Jul 92 22:33:04 GMT
Organization: BT North America (Tymnet)

21. Friendly fire, isn't.

Hoo boy.  Tell that to all those in the castle battles at An Tir West this year,
or especially at Ducal War in Adiantum some years ago.  This year, the siege
rocks drifted enough to spectacularly kill the attackers rather than the
defenders at least 25% of the time.

The engine at Ducal was firing at a concrete structure with walls that was used
as the castle.  It was a trebuchet with a decent sized throwing arm.  When 
the sound of it firing was heard, all the fighters near the castle would hunch
their necks, in anticipation of a large bag of hay (a "rock") landing on their
heads.  Very Monty Pythonish feeling for me.

Having missle fire of any sort in the battles makes a world of difference.
I beleive it to be positive.

Cheers,

John Theophilous
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: PORTERG@ruby.vcu.EDU (Greg Porter)
Subject: Bluntness, 'filk', and tact
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:28:00 GMT

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Another Pennsic tip
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 21:36:17 GMT

In article <Brsz8x.162@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes) writes:
>At war two years ago I saw some slime-bag openly fondling a teen-ager
>who was so drunk-of-her-ass that should couldn't feel or didn't care
>what he was doing. 

I'm going to start sounding like a broken record soon . . .

Teens drinking is *illegal*.  The SCA is bound by mundane law (it's
one fo the first things in Corpora).  Letting teens drink can get us
in *serious*trouble* with the mundane authorities.

(This is a 'crusade' only insofar as I think that such activities are
not only illegal, but a threat to the continued wellbeing of the SCA.)

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: shick@europa.asd.contel.COM (steve hick)
Subject: Re: Rapier Combat
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:57:15 GMT

Nicholas and Gentles of the Rialto,

Nicholas in his missive states:

 Like all swords prior to the development of the rapier, they 
were primarily used for cuts rather than thrusts.

This is not born out by analysis of the extent manuals of their use.  For example, the earliest extent 
fencing manual known, the Tower Fechtbuch, shows an approximate 50-50 selection between thrusts and 
blows, and a selection of some very modern looking parries.

The amount of material prior to the definition of the superiority of the thrust vs the cut, and therefore the 
true demarcation of sword/rapier transition (Agrippa 1553) is quite large,  near 100 MSS and  dozens of 
books.
Strykar

Organization: Engineering Design Research Center, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 10:55:34 -0400 
From: "Andrea B. Gansley-Ortiz" <ag1v+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Basic Courtesy

Greetings good gentles.

Please permit me to indulge in a bit of pedantry.

Hossein writes:
> I have known Stephen for some time.  I highly value his blunt, unvarnished
> honesty and willingness to express opinion.  I think that his remark was
> not only not discourteous, but to the point and refreshing.  

What definition of blunt are you using? It can mean 'abrupt in speech
or manner' and 'straight to the point', or it can mean 'slow or deficient
in feeling: INSENSITIVE'.

Yes, Stephen's comment was blunt all right.

> Just because
> people do a thing, it does not automatically become an appropriate thing
> to do.  Filking of modern tunes is an abomination and if Stephen wants to
> lead a Crusade to extirpate it from our midst, I'll happily join him.  

Wanting to change something for what you and Stephen (and me for that matter)
consider the better does NOT mean actively discouraging a person's efforts
and not even bothering to make suggestions for improvement. What Stephen
did was say 'What you did was inappropriate and wrong' and then offer no
words to help the individual come closer to doing something more authentic.

> If
> courtesy means avoiding speaking the blunt truth about a non-period
> practice on the off chance that it might offend one of the gongfermers
> who have to have their mundanity-fix, then I prefer discourtesy every time.

One does not have to be discourteous to be direct. However, it seems that
you are calling rude, discourteous remarks blunt truth, when there is no 
TRUTH in the words at all. All there is is opinion. 

> Any discouragement of plain,
> direct, honest communication is to be deplored.  Especially when it
> employs the practice of a man of Stephen of the Grove's honor, nobility of 
> character, and integrity as an example of a practice to be avoided.

Bertram's article was in no way discouraging honest communication. If
Stephen had been plain in his note, instead of speaking out of the side
of his mouth, I'm sure Bertram would have not even commented on it.

Knowing Stephen in person probably gives you a very different perspective
of his writing than I read. Stephen may be the man of honor you say he is.
But his comments to someone who was at least trying are a real funny way
of showing it.

Esmeralda la Sabia

cc: Greg Porter, Stephen Whitis
From: ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Rape, women, carrying weapons
Date: 23 Jul 92 22:25:21 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <A2NHBT9@taronga.com> mfactor@taronga.com (Marco Landin) writes:
	
>	It's scaring me to think I have lady friends going to Pennsic!
>	
>	Should they be warned?  Is it really a constant concern there?  I mean,
>SCA or not, we do live in the 20th century, and I'll be the first to
>advocate constant vigilance against such atrocities.  1 of 3 women WILL BE
>sexually assaulted in her lifetime, this is a fact.  But I thought SCA was
>a bit more...er...CIVILIZED than that.
>	Has there been history of rape at Pennsic before?  Even if not, I am of
>the philosophy that women should be protected.  And I also agree that a
>knife won't be an effective weapon against a drunken,
>testosterone-overloaded heavy weapons fighter with the extension of his
>sword gone out of control.  CS gas will do better.  Or how about a .9mm
>round through the head.  But is it really such a danger that we have to
>post so much concerning personal safety at Pennsic?
>	Call me naive but I thought chivalry was alive with us, and chivalry
>would mandate 40 or so armed persons POUNCING onto the lady's would be
>assailant at the first sound of her screaming.  Gods help the bastard,
>because I sure wouldn't.

	Relax and let your lady friends go to Pennsic in peace. We discuss
many matters here at great length, that is the purpose of this forum. Pennsic
is so much larger than any local event, there are many people we don't know
so there is more reason to be concerned than any other event. This doen't
mean it's anything close to as dangerous as living in a major metropolitan
area. There is no need to walk in fear, just be aware.
	Until that last posting I have never heard of the 'stranger jumping
out of the bushes' type of assault. The only incident I know of involved
more coercion than brute force (and the child was rescued in time fortunately).
The problem with assuming a woman can get help by screaming is she probably
won't in the case of date rape. There are men who prey on women who are young
or psychologically defensless by using guilt and other manipulative tactics
to get their way. This works especially well on young women and girls. Girl
children are tought to be ladylike and accomodating, assertiveness, especially
with someone who has an air of authority can be difficult and many grown 
women remain brainwashed this way. Just because a woman doesn't have bruised,
doesn't mean a rape didn't occur.
	This isn't supposed to be a diatribe. I remain convinced that 'going
out' with someone you meet at Pennsic is orders of magnitude safer than going
out with someone you meet at a frat party. The thing to remember is that it
is *safer* not *safe*.
							-Ilaine



-- 
Liz Stokes         | Ilaine's EZ-Pregnancy Test 
Ilaine de Cameron  | ... "Now take the skein of handspun yarn out of the 
                   | dyebath. If it is green, you are with child, if it
ilaine@panix.com   | is blue, you are not."
From: samlb@optilink.UUCP (Sam Bassett)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cameras in the SCA, (ori
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:51:12 GMT
Organization: Old, used pedant

In article <711490929.F00001@ocitor.fidonet> Cat.Moran@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Cat Moran) writes:
}There were some actual photographs taken in period - I saw copies
}of the pictures in my History of Photography class in college.  The
}text book dated them to about 14th century, if I'm remembering
}correctly.

	Nope -- see below.

}The picture was nothing like what we get now - the
}"film" was a mixture of what something similar to asphalt, and egg
}whites (and probably something else I've forgotten).  It was very
}grainy.  Also, the "subject" (the buildings along a street) had to
}"sit" for the picture for about 8 hours.  After the 8 hour
}exposure, the plate was washed, and what didn't come off was the
}picture.  

	You have just described the first photograph, by one J.J. Niepce
of Paris -- but it was dated _1840_-something, not _1480_-something.

(-:	The definition of "period" seems to get wider && wider with time!
:-)

-- 
Sam'l Bassett -- System Administrator 	      (among other silly things)
Work: DSC/Optilink, 1310-C Redwood Wy, Petaluma CA 94954; 1-707-792-7253
Internet: samlb@optilink.com 		      UUCP: uunet!optilink!samlb
From: n8948315@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Arthur Morgan)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Anti-SCA/wargaming attitudes (was Pentacles)
Keywords: Knights of Corr Chi Omega Rho
Date: 24 Jul 92 05:47:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Jul24.054708.10843
Organization: Road to Emmaus @ 206-647-0618

In article <01GMMZCXWQC08X1VGO@Gems.VCU.EDU> PORTERG@ruby.vcu.EDU (Greg Porter) writes:
>
>	Concerning the post on certain material a Boise policeman had on file,
>I've run into both the anti-SCA and anti-wargaming types.  Often, they are

>	One interesting observation that I've made is that those most
>vehemently opposed to wargaming/SCA are those who follow fundamentalist-type 
                                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>	Morgan Wolfsinger (Catherine DeMott) by my lord's net access

You might be interested to know that my denomination (The Assemblies of God,
one of those so-called fundie groups) has an organization called Chi Omega Rho
or "The Knights of Corr" which has a similar thrust to the SCA with regard to 
the activities it engages in.  The period covered is 1170-1270, or around the
time of the great crusades. The initiate goes through pagehood, squirehood, and
eventually gets knighted by his local Regent after fulfilling all the 
requirements of the first 2 levels. The participants all have to do a little
research to come up with a persona, a coat of arms, an appropriate set of
garments to match his/her period and country, and armor.  If you wish more info
about this organization, please leave me email here, or call my BBS @ (number
posted above also) 206-647-0618. The organization was formed as a support 
group to help provide additional leaders for special events that the Royal
Rangers (a christian scout-like organization that my denomination runs), and 
usually shows up at campouts and the like in costume with a "pavilion" set up
on-site.  They also have many activities of their own.

-- 
Arthur Morgan  <n8948315@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: asparrow@mcs213f.cs.umr.edu (Angelia Sparrow)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Why not pentacles:
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:17:37 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla

Pentacles may have
been used in period heraldry.
The poem "Gawaine and the Green Knight"
by The Pearl Poet from 1370 says in
verse 27

"Then they showed him the shield of shining gules,
With the Pentangle in pure gold depicted thereon..."

Three lines later it says
"And I intend to tell you, though I tarry therefore,
Why the Pentangle is proper to this prince of knights.
It is the symbol which Solomon conceived once
To betoken holy truth, by its intrinsic right,
For it is a figure which has five points
And each line overlaps and is locked with another;
And it is endless everywhere, and the English call it,
In all the land I hear, the Endless Knot."

It goes on in verse 28 to tell about what each point
symbolizes:
the five wits, the Five Wounds of Christ, the Five Joys of
Mary, his five fingers, and the five knightly virtues.

This is taken from _The Literature of England_ Third Single
Volume edition, George K. Anderson ed.


Aethelynda d'Eath, Callanish-nuach, Calontir

"I always knew that English degree would be handy"