HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Children in church (was Re: 20/20 and Spanking)
Date: 10 Nov 92 21:20:46 GMT
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California

In article <dlhanson.31.721337335@nap.amoco.com> dlhanson@nap.amoco.com (David L. Hanson ) writes:
>
>I would also ask why the children, of all ages, are not in the church
>service with their parents.  Jesus Christ said specifically "let them
>come to me" when the disciples tried to keep the children from bothering
>Him.  Even in our churches, we don't want to be bothered by children which
>is a sad commentary on society and churches (my local church is guilt of
>this also).
>

Well, I can see several reasons.  First and foremost for why MY children are
in Children's Fellowship and not in church is that church is geared for adults
and children find it boring.  I can remember counting the number candles in
the candelabra, the number of rafters and beams, calculating how many people
can squeeze into a pew, and how long it took to polish all the wood.  In
our church, children under age 6 may either be in fellowship with other
children or in church.  

Second is that toddlers tend to be very disruptive to the service.  As a
parent I NEED quiet prayer time to commune with God, to listen to the sermon,
to contemplate on my life.  Trying to keep my daughter from running up the
aisle, screaming, kicking her heels on the pew in front of me, etc. is not
conducive to worship.  

We have three Holy Days each year in which all children are requested to attend
services.  They are Christmas, Palm Sunday, and Easter Sunday.  On these days
the services are geared toward the children.  On Christmas, Mother Beryl dresses
like a shepherd in Jerusalem talking about "have you heard this rumor".  All
the children run up and sit on the dais.  She acts shocked when they tell her
about Jesus being born and being the son of God. It is a charming and delightful
service.  The other days are more formal, but still involve stories geared for
children.

Our children come into service for baptisms whenever they occur and every
Sunday for communion.  They are welcome any other time.  But to force a 3 YO
to sit still and be quiet while some adult drones on and on is not the way
I envision establishing a love of church in my children.  Rather it made me
run away as fast as I could as far as I could as soon as I could.

Jesus said, "Suffer the little children to come unto me."  Not, "Shove me down
the little children's throats."  I think there is a world of difference.
-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
From: cathe@xanadu.ucsb.edu (Cathe Gordon)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Birth
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:03:27 GMT

Cassidy Bonnie Gordon
7 pounds, 4 ounces
19 inches

November 10, 1992  9:20p.m.

Proud Parents:  Cathe and Pat Gordon

(birth story another day)  ;-)
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon and all-around grouch)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Date: 9 Nov 92 22:44:01 GMT
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and all-around grouch)
Distribution: usa
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <1djgfrINNlo5@network.ucsd.edu> dlin@weber.ucsd.edu (Diane Lin) writes:
>	Never treat a child with disrespect.

What about adults?  What about all the adults you've condemned
and consigned to the ranks of abusers?  The ones who have
had to enforce timeout in a quiet room?  The ones who know that
ONCE IN A WHILE that a paricular child seems to need a physical
reminder?  The ones who DO sound sorta awful?

Why do you disrespect ALL of these adults.

Frankly, I think you shown that that you
think that adults do not deserve the courtesies and respect
due human beings.

Sign me a non spanker who is gald it works in the particular case
but who is really SICK of the ad-hominem rot passing by.
-- 
Extremism *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   in the    *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
  defense of     *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 liberty is no vice.  *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: M18611@MBVM.Mitre.Org (Kathy Wilk)
Subject: Re: Reluctant pooer
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA 01730
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:38:44 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.023426.21116@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au>
J.Osborne@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au writes:
>What shall I do about my son Jack's 'difficulty'? He's 20 months old and
>appears to be trying as hard as he can *not* to do a poo.
>     ....
>I think I may have a behavioural rather than physical problem on my hands now.
>Jack still tries very hard not to do a poo, going ridgid and clamping his
>little bottom together when he feels something happening. A little bit comes
>out - just enough to aggrevate his bottom and keep it sore. He really doesn't
>seem to be trully constipated because the stools that do eventuate arn't hard.
>This straining/not straining makes him very unhappy, but at other times he
>seems quite happy.
>
>Any suggestions? (And my apologies to Jack for talking about him like this in
>public!)
>
>Jo
 
  I went through a bout of constipation with my daughter when she was an
infant (without the thrush and sore bottom, however) and now when she is
3.5 yrs.  It is really horrendous!  It can get a lot worse, I know - one
child in daycare resisted potty training and was chronically constipated
for months - it was THE topic of conversation in his home and with his
teachers and with other mothers.  It easily becomes a problem behavior be-
cause you will have a hard time convincing a baby or a pre-schooler to do
what hurts him.
  I now use an enema right away if the constipation is severe (haven't
had a recurrence so haven't had to do that yet) but the nurse practitioner
in my doctor's office said that in addition, give mineral oil.  I am talking
about my daughter so your son may be a different case - talk to your doctor
about this.  Not only mineral oil but a teaspoon of mineral oil every day for
a month.  This seemed bizarre to me but she explained that sometimes, a child
can only seem to recover when really, everything is 'backed up' in the colon -
they have even had to do X-rays in those cases.
  If you consider mineral oil, talk to your doctor.  Good luck!
 
                        K. Wilk
                        M18611@MBVM.MITRE.ORG
 
            <--********************************-->
 'Thrusting my nose firmly between his teeth, I threw him to the ground
  on top of me.' - Mark Twain
            <--********************************-->
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: AMY.UHRBACH@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Amy Uhrbach")
Subject: re: costumes
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 12:56:58 GMT

This year Alex helped choose his costume, with the result that he wore not
only the ears but also let me paint his face (which he used to be scared of).
He was so excited he told people for weeks what he was going to be.
He went as Winnie the Pooh - very easy to make.  He wore yellow sweats, a red
t-shirt on which I had painted Pooh in white, black nose, yellow cheeks, and
yellow ears (felt around pipe cleaners, on a headband, attached with glue
gun).  Took me maybe 45 minutes to make, and he looked great!

He wore it twice - for the pot-banging parade at nursery (which he has
reenacted numerous times since at home :-() and on Halloween when we went to 4
houses (plenty for a 33m old).  He did say trick or treat, was very excited
that he got to ring doorbells.  When we got home he wore his costume around for
a while then suddenly said "I'm done with my costume now" and took off the
ears.  Ever since he's been carrying his plastic pumpkin bag around all day,
even wants to sleep with it; when the (5 pieces of) candy were gone, he just
filled it up with big colorful beads and pretends they're his treats!
From: bweiss@cs.arizona.edu (Beth Weiss)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Tolerance (Re: 20/20 and Spanking)
Date: 10 Nov 92 19:13:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: optima.26184
Organization: U of Arizona, CS Dept, Tucson
cc: bweiss, shack


I don't normally respond to flames, but this one I feel obligated to
respond to (once).

jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon and all-around grouch) writes:
|> bweiss@cs.arizona.edu (Beth Weiss) writes:
|> >Nobody is _obligated_ to have tolerance for another's views if
|> >that person feels those views are morally wrong.  

|> I see. You are not obligated to treat someone you disagree with
|> as a human being.  

These first four lines, taken without any editing, show very clearly
that jj is reading something into my post that isn't there.  I state
it isn't necessary to have tolerance for someone's _views_ and he
reads that it isn't necessary to treat someone you disagree with as a
human being.

|> This misstatement for
|> purely emotionally manipulitive purposes shows that you
|> do not even accept his status as a human being.  In short,
|> you are treating him as something below deserving ethical
|> behavior.  

This is the part that has caused me to reply.  I know David
Shackelford personally.  We have worked together on projects.  I don't
agree _at all_ with his views on spanking and his stated idea that one
of parents' primary goals should be to teach child not to be brats. <

HOWEVER, I do respect David, I do treat him as a human being worthy of
respect, and I certainly believe that he is worthy of ethical
treatment.  Based on our interactions, David would never think
I don't treat him with respect, and I resent your accusations.

--Beth Weiss
bweiss@cs.arizona.edu
From: llf@alice.att.com (alice!llf)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:46:06 GMT
Reply-To: llf@alice.UUCP (alice!llf)
Distribution: usa
Organization: New Jersey State Home for Bewildered Kittens

In article <1djgfrINNlo5@network.ucsd.edu> dlin@weber.ucsd.edu (Diane Lin) writes:
>You also tried to claim that "never do X" should never be applied to
>parenting because absolutes are inappropriate when applied to
>something as "nebulous" as parenting.  Here are some "never"
>claims, and please let us know if you *really* believe that nevers
>should not be applied in parenting:
>
>	Never set your child on fire.

Unless you are teaching your child magic tricks involving fire (and
happen to know exactly what you are doing and teaching, and believe
that your child is at the stage where he/she/it can responsibly handle
the knowledge).

>	Never throw your child off a roof.

Even if the house is burning?  What if you and the child are working on
an experiment and both believe you've set things up carefully so no injuries
can occur?  What if your child is learning bunjee jumping and you happen to
be a licensed instructor?  What if the roof is a mere 2 or 3 feet above
the ground?  What if someone is on the ground to catch the child?

>	Never hit your child with a baseball bat.

What about the toddler sized foam one in a game of "feather pillows"?
What about if your child comes up behind you while you are at bat and you
don't see him/her/it?

Every one of these "nevers" can be qualified.  There are some nevers that you
can probably say really are nevers (for example, "never beat your child about
the head hard or long enough to put them into a coma", and undoubtedly,
someone, somewhere, may be able to come up with a qualifier to this statement).

More important, the fact that someone believes that "never" is an
inappropriate concept for parenting shouldn't mean that it's open hunting
season on them.

Maybe we should split this discussion in 2:  one on how to use spanking as
part of a humane, effective, reasonable part of an overall way of raising
children and one on how to avoid spanking as part of a humane, effective,
reasonable part of an over all way of raising children.

Lynda
-- 
					Member HASA, Atheist-Scum Division
"The One Horseman and Three Pedestrians of the Apocalypse" - Terry Pratchet
Xref: sparky misc.kids:28286 soc.singles:30427
From: mysti@sybase.com (Mysti)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,soc.singles
Subject: Re: BARBIE DOES IT AGAIN!!!!
Date: 10 Nov 92 09:28:26 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Sybase, Inc.

In article <Bx30pH.5Kq@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> kiran@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Kiran Wagle) writes:
>mysti@sybase.com (Mysti) writes:
>
>>Most women who get beaten are beaten by men.  This does not mean that
>>all [...] men beat women, and I didn't realize you weren't
>>sophisticated enough a thinker to disambiguiate between the two concepts.   

>Disambiguate???  Yuck, is this really a word? 

Ah yes, pretend to pick nits because you are caught out.  Typical.

>%webster disambiguate
>
>dis-am-big-u-ate \,dis-am-'big-ye-,wa^-t\ vt  -at-ed; -at-ing (1963)
>:to establish a single semantic or grammatical interpretation for
>-- dis-am-big-u-a-tion \-,big-ye-'wa^--shen\ n
>
>I sure hope you don't mean one should disambiguate these concepts.

As a user of the language, I can improvise at will :)
But anyway "to establish a single semantic interpretation" for each
of the two concepts is what I had in mind.  So sue me, or better
yet, sue my linguistics professors, who used the word as I did above.

All of this is fabulously beside the point, which is there is a difference
between saying "something about this situation isn't right" and "everybody
who plays role 'x' in this situation is a cretin."
And you can't provide any evidence that I've ever done the latter instead
of the former.  Can you?

--
========================
Mysti Rubert, Oaktown, California

"It't not the men in my life, but the life in my men."  Mae West
From: linda@unix.SRI.COM (Linda J. Szkoropad)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: 5 year old funny vocabulary
Date: 13 Nov 92 20:48:17 GMT
Distribution: all
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, California

My 5 year old throws in some stuff that I want to correct, but its
so cute that I can't like:

My painting is more better than yours.

I leaved it alone, I flied it really high (she wants to ad "ed" to
everything.

_____
The toppers of the week:
Will I get a container when I grow up? (retainer)
Can I have some beef turkey? (jerky)?

OH...
My husband used to say "president" instead of "present"
in kindergarten!
From: dsegelho@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Diane Segelhorst)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: You know you're a parent when ...
Date: 9 Nov 92 15:46:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: oasys.27323
Reply-To: dsegelho@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Diane Segelhorst)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Annapolis Detachment, CDNSWC

You know you are a parent when you keep count of the school buses you
see between daycare and work.

Diane Segelhorst
dsegelho@oasys.dt.navy.mil
Mom to Brad, 2 1/4 years, and Carrie, 4 1/2 months
From: pburch@bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: summaries
Date: 6 Nov 1992 15:35:45 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
Distribution: world
Reply-To: pburch@bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch)
NNTP-Posting-Host: roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu
Originator: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu


I don't want to offend anyone who has taken yet another interesting poll 
and then posted the results--but I want to point out that it's NOT a 
summary if you post *everything* you got (except for the headers). 

A summary saves a lot of space in those netnews machines all over the 
world, and saves a lot of time for those unfortunate souls whose 
newsreaders are so primitive as to not allow skipping.

Paula Burch
pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 10:09:20 EST
From: Chris Himes <CLH7@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Car seat battles (13 mos)

Over the last month Doug (13.5 mos) has developed a fierce determination not
to get into his carseat.  At first, I thought this was related to a new
daycare and associating the car with daycare, but now he fights even when I
pick him up in the evening.  I assume this is just one of those
"independence" stages, but how long can I expect it to last?  Any hints in
the meantime to make things easier?  I have tried explaining before we leave
the house that we are going to get into the car, not play (he loves to play
outside).  Usually we start the morning with me forcefully holding him down
and strapping him in.  Once he is strapped in he stops complaining and will
ride fairly contentedly.

Chris Himes (Doug's frustrated mom--how can someone so small be so strong!!)
From: tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Grace Sylvan)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Infant Rocks to noises
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:58:05 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sylvan Associates

In article <davej.44.0@gmuvax2.gmu.edu> davej@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (David F. Juraschek) writes:

   Our 11 month old daughter is very responsive to noises, sounds and 
   especially to music.  (Her mommy is a violist in an orchestra and a music
   teacher, so she's been exposed to music from conception.)

   Whenever we turn on the dishwasher, vacumn, electric shavers or such, she
   will rock back and forth (not transfixed, mind you - she just rocks gently).

   Do other infants do this?  She indicates no discomfort and can even be
   smiling at the time, but does this indicate some sort of irritation to 
   the noise?

My son has started doing this already, especially to music with a
distinct beat. My daughter did it too, and continued the behavior as
she got older. I have her on video, just a little over a year old,
learning to bend her knees and rock in time to the music. Your
daughter's learning to DANCE, she's not irritated at all! IMHO :-)
-- 

Tigger (Grace Sylvan)                Mom of Katherine Yelena, 8/8/89,
tigger@satyr.sylvan.com              Corey 1/31/91; we loved him so,
                                     Robin Gregory born 2/28/92

 "It seems to me that our large goal is to find the ways to help our
 children become humane and strong."
 
              - Dr Haim Ginott quoted by Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish
From: riggle@adobe.com (Kathleen Riggle)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Not Limiting Sweets (was Re: Halloween Stories)
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:21:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: adobe.1992Nov5.182103.1515
Distribution: usa
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <1992Nov05.012123.2220075@locus.com> judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer) writes:
>Well I don't know about cute, but will you accept proud?  Ron and I read
>a study on eating disorders that advised the best way to raise children
>was to let food be food and not label some things like vegetables "good
>food" and other things like candy "bad food".  Just let kids eat what they
>want when they want.  We were both raised in more traditional households
>where you had to finish dinner to get dessert and candy was rationed and
>we both had weight problems as children (Ron hasn't gained a pound since
>7th grade, but he's added 2 feet and he's not skinny).
>
>Well, everyone we know says "Oh, that only works if the only food in the
>house is healthy food."  They won't believe me when I explain that Mitchell
>will often choose an apple or a banana over a candy bar or that he will
>take an entire week to eat a bag of M&Ms.  But he does, and so does Erin
>who has yet to eat any of her Halloween candy save 3 Hershey's kisses.
>(I, on the other hand, have eaten almost half her candy, much of it fed
>to me by her).
>
>We do so many things wrong as parents I just thought I'd take some proud
>credit for something that we have really done right.  Candy has no forbidden
>aura in our house.  So it's nice if we have it, but no big deal.  The same
>goes for soda vs. juice, and all those other forbidden foods so many of my
>friends fret over.  

I have a question for you.  First, Dave and I are doing this also.
One, Dave likes sweets and keeps them around, so why should he have
them and not Rachel?  Two, I eat for the wrong reasons.  I've been
known to say, "I'm stressed; where's the chocolate?"  I was 5'4" and
108 in college and still felt like I needed to lose 5 pounds.  Food
and weight have always been constant problems for me, even when I
didn't have a weight problem.  I'm working on it, but I sure don't
want to pass this on to my daughter.  So far, we've been pretty
successful.  She does like chocolate, but she doesn't ask for it to
excess and she likes a wide variety of fruits and vegies (she eats
broccoli!).  But, sometimes she will ask for something right before a
meal.  I made cookies last night and I heard her ask Dave for one this
morning.  He was about to feed her breakfast, so he said, "No, you can
have one after breakfast."  If she had only eaten 2 Cheerios, he would
have given her a cookie, but it had to be after the meal.  I find
myself doing this too.  I just can't give her junk right before
dinner.  She does always eat a good dinner and then she may or may not
want the sweet afterwards.

So, (here's my question!) are you somewhat discriminating about sweets
or if they want them right before dinner, is that fine too?

Kathie
From: lauraf@classy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom)
Subject: Re: Washing stuffed animals
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 21:19:32 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.151919.7987@cs.brown.edu> mhn@cs.brown.edu (Marian H. Nodine) writes:
>In article <1992Nov3.180157.7825@news.media.mit.edu> stanzi@media.mit.edu (Constance "Stanzi" Royden) writes:
>>Does anyone have any experience with washing a "Surface washable"
>>stuffed animal in the washing machine?  Did it come out OK?
>
>My experience was that with the surface washable stuffed animals, there
>were parts (the ears) that were glued on.  Washing the animal made the
>glue dissolve and the ears come off.  The animal was easily fixed by
>sewing them back on with a handy needle and thread.
>
Another thing you have to worry about is if the animal is too stuffed. The
stuffing may expand upon washing, and split seams. This happened to a stuffed
animal of my sons, after he dropped it into the wading pool. Grandma had to
perform surgery after it had dried.

Laura Floom


Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: klj@cbnews.cb.att.com (karen.l.carr)
Subject: Re: a new fun thread??
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:50:56 GMT

In article <1d99f1INNdl8@mizar.usc.edu>, biddleco@mizar.usc.edu (Susan Biddlecomb) writes:
> Has anyone accused you of kidnapping your daughters? 

I've been waiting for someone to say something to either my husband or
myself.  My husband is white and I am black.  Alison right now is somewhere
between the two of us -- either a very light-colored black or a more
Italian looking white (I used Italian since her great-grandmother is
Italian).  So far, nothing.  Of course, this could change when my daughter
gets older!

	Karen
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: baby@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (maureen.paone)
Subject: re: hearing babies heartbeat at 9 weeks
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:38:52 GMT
Keywords: I HAVE RESULTS!!!!!!!
 

Hi all,

First, I would like to thank ALL of you who responded to my
post about being concerned by my OB not hearing my babies
heartbeat last week (I was 9 weeks along). You all kept my
hopes up and provided me with some good input. THANKS!

Secondly, today was my second visit (10 weeks) and he had no
problem whatsoever finding the babies heartbeat! I AM STILL
FLYING HIGH!! He said that it really depends on the babies 
position but usually they can hear it by 10 or 11 weeks.
So now that I'm all smiles once again, I can concentrate on
having an enjoyable pregnancy. Thanks again to all of you,
I'm sorry I couldnt email my thanks to each and everyone
of you but we've been pretty busy here. I hope I can do the
same for all of you one day.

Thanks,

Maureen (and Bryan and Shawn and ??) and Dad (who wasnt nearly as worried as me)
-- 
*************************************************
Maureen A. Paone                                *
Proud Mama to Bryan Michael and Shawn Elizabeth *
*************** 8-18-88 *********** 4-27-91 *****
Newsgroups: misc.kids