HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: energy required to ignite engines
Keywords: ignition, engines
Date: 8 Apr 92 07:53:42 GMT
Reply-To: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd.

In article <7707@travis.csd.harris.com> taco@flipper.csd.harris.com (Pablo Fumero) writes:
>I remember seeing an article about a person's measurements
>on the amount of current needed to set-off several types
>of rocket igniters. If someone still has this article, I
>would greatly appreciate some mail or a repost.

I'd be interested in this as well. If anyone who has this doesn't feel
like posting, please cc me on your reply to Pablo.

Thanks,

- Jack

=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
||"While your brains may not be so large to look at as those of the Scare- ||
||crow, you are really brighter than he is -- when you are well polished." ||
||    -- Glinda to the Tin Woodman, original edition                       ||
=============================================================================
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Questions From a Spectator
Date: 9 Apr 92 19:53:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: transfer.2066
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <18770001@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM>, billg@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Bill Gingras) writes:
> Are there any
> clubs in the San Francisco Bay Area that use these types of rockets?

Contact BAYNER c/o Lou Dick, 4850 Vesca Way, San Jose 95129.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: ray@nmsb.larc.nasa.gov
Subject: Suitable motor for model
Originator: hazari@dagger.larc.nasa.gov
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 15:03:03 GMT

I have a rocket that I would like to launch, but, it is quite old.
The model is the "Photon Disruptor" that Estes put out quite a few years
ago.  Unfortunately, I no longer have a list of the recommended motors
for it.  Is there anyone out there that could look in an old catalog
or may know what the recommended motors are for this model?

E-mail would probably be more suitable since this has limited appeal.

Thanks!
Ray Balister
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Fuse
Organization: Hewlett-Parkard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 19:40:21 GMT

: Why is it that rocket companies like Estes don't promote fuse as a way to
: ignite rocket engines?
: I've been using it exclusively for over a year now and have had 1 misfire.
: I read in a book that they are dangerous and unreliable.WHat is dangerous about
: them?I see using a stupid electric
: thing 15 feet from the pad as much more dangerous.With a fuse,I can put 6
: inches or so on,have 30 to 40 seconds to
: run and get a good view of the rocket in flight.With an igniter,I have to 
: stand on top of the pad and can't see sh*t.Igniters also don't work half of
: the time and the batteries also die.
: For 2 bucks,I can get 10 feet of fuse.That's enough for 30 to 40 launches.
: For the same amount I can get 6 igniters,1/3 of which will not work.I guess
: I see now why they don't promote fuse,they make a killing selling igniters.

The danger is that the fuse may burn much faster than expected. It is rare,
but it does occur. The fuse is also not as reliable, it can burn part way,
and then smolder for a while before burning the rest of the way. This is
also rare but, if it happened, you could be injured if you went to check
to see why the rocket didn't ignite. When using an igniter, when there is
a misfire then a 60 second wait is long enough to make sure it is safe to
approach the rocket.

Why are you limiting yourself to 15 feet? It is easy to add 100 feet of 
zipcord to your igniter leads.

If your igniters do not work half the time, then you are installing them
wrong. I seldom have a misfire. I use a motorcycle battery, rather than
a set of C cells - I only have to charge it a couple of times a year, and
I do a LOT of launching.

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: helen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu (Helen Rapozo)
Subject: Re: Old Estes Catalogs
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 04:23:28 GMT

>>Somehow I don't feel as old anymore 8-).  I remember starting to fly model
>>rockets in 1970.
>
>Thanks a lot! B-)
*********
Sorry I will try not to make coments about one's age.  8-).  In any event
for all I know we could be the same age and started to fly when you were
7!
>
>>an acordain file where I kept the plans to the models I built (with
>>luck maybe the fins templates are there too).
>
>Good. Maybe you can build some of them now! I had a whole binder full
>of stuff that I'd designed, some of which I may actually pick up for 
>building.
>
************
Found fin templates for the Falcon and the Nighthawk (both are Estes).

--
Honolulu Community College            cs_rapozo@hccadb.hcc.hawaii.edu
874 Dillingham Blvd.                  helen@pulua.hcc.hawaii.edu
Honolulu, HI 96817                    rapozo@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu
Ph#: (808) 845-9202
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott)
Subject: Re: r.m.r FAQ list
Organization: NEC America, Radio Software Dept
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:13:59 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.192539.10419@panix.com>, reynolds@panix.com (Brian Reynolds) writes:
|> In article <454@rml.UUCP> jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty) writes:
|> >I sent the following to Buzz but it bounced. While editing it to
|> >try again I realized that this might be a good starting point for
|> >a group discussion on what should go into the FAQ.
|> >
|> >- Jack
|> 
|> 	How about a section for scale information?  A pointer to Peter
|> Alway's book, contact addresses at various "full scale" maunfacturers,
|> and other sources for scale data would be a good start.
|> 
|> Brian Reynolds
|> reynolds@panix.com
|> NAR# 54438

I want to thank everyone for their quick responses.  I have already received
more than a dozen direct email responses (all positive).  So, since no one
threatened to slash my tires or something if I didn't let THEM do the FAQ I
am now 'officially' starting the process of writing one.

I agree with Jack that this would be an excellent time to have a group 
discussion on the content and format of the FAQ.  Everyone, please post your
suggestions/comments to this newsgroup.  I will accumulate and post a 
skeleton outline of the FAQ in a couple of weeks (I would like to give everyone
plenty of time to get their suggestions in).  If discussion is still hot-and-
heavy in two weeks I'll probably put of the skeleton outline a while longer.

I would suggest that, if possible, suggestions for specific questions and,
of course, THE ANSWERS, be emailed directly to me at buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com
and I will add them to the FAQ list.

I would also like to solicit volunteer reviewers of the FAQ drafts (are you
listening CD?)  I would especially like help from people active in scale and
HPR (I admit weakness in all aspects of rocketry, but these are my 'weakest').

Thanks to all for your support.

============================================================================
Buzz McDermott                   Internet: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com
NAR # 13559
============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM (Jim Cook)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Comanche-3 (will I ever see it again?)
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:07:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: primerd.1992Apr15.160755.5166
Reply-To: <J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM>
Organization: Prime Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Apr15.142452.18369@bnr.ca> mdoug@bnr.ca (Doug MacLean) writes:
>After reading this newsgroup for several months, I finally went out to buy
>everything. I bought the 'MeanMachine' (I always wanted this one) and the
Comanche-3. 
> 
>After reading the launch instructions for the Comanche-3...I'm starting to
think
>that if I ever launched this thing, fully loaded, with a D12-0, C6-0, C6-7
config.,  
>I'll never see it again (over 2600 feet!?). They recommend 1 tracker per
booster stage, that's 2 people, and 2 trackers for the final stage, that's 2
more people; not to mention the underlined recommendation of 'only on CALM
DAYS' 

1. The warning about calm days is true.  Or get a large field with short 
   grass.  Make sure you paint it.  Red is recommended.  White has problems
   with being lost in hazy or cloudy skies.
2. It is a good thing they supply a streamer.  A friend launched his out
   west with not quite the max. engine config, but used a parachute.  It
   caught a thermal and took 15 minutes to come down.  
3. While the streamer lessens wind drift, it also causes it to land hard.
   Glue and fillet the fins well.
4. Make sure the engines are in tightly, but the stages fit together loosely.
   You don't want to blow out an engine, leaving the upper stage to cook the
   remaining lower stage body tube & fins. 
5. You can always work your way up, launching it as a two stage, eliminating
   either of the first two stages.  An exaggerated launch schedule might be:
      1. B8-0, A8-5
      2. C6-0, A8-5
      1. D12 & A8-5
      2. D12 & C6-7
      3. D12 & B8-0 & A8-5    
       etc.

Jim
From: mckiou@cbnewse.cb.att.com (kevin.w.mckiou)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Foul Weather Launches (was Comanche-3)
Keywords: multistage
Date: 17 Apr 92 04:25:50 GMT
Organization: AT&T

Ahhh! Foul Weather Launches.  They're great.  I (and others on this
net) belong to Northern Ill Rocketry Association and we do a fair
number of demos.  There is a standard answer for the new member who
always asks (upon finding out that we are doing a demo) "What happens
if it rains".  The answer in unison is "YOU GET WET".  Gosh we have
launched under TERRIBLE conditions.  A year ago, October, we put on
a demo in connection with the Chicago RCHTA (model hobby) show.  The
field was a neighborhood park (read postage stamp) that was bordered
by a car dealership on 4 lane road and residential neighborhoods.  
Oh, it probably easily met the safety code.  But, the wind was blowing 
so hard it blew over the saw-horse launch racks (though I'm SURE it
was below 20 mph :-) - I'm glad nobody had a wind meter).  We launched
everything from A8-3 Vikings to Commanche D-C-C.  Surprisingly, we
only lost 1 Viking (equiv) model with a B6-4.  The Commanche was tracked
and followed until found.  There are certain tricks to recovering
rockets.  I'm not very good at it, but there are others who are.
Maybe some of them could be coaxed into sharing some of their secrets.
(Bob Weirsbe is the most persistent I've ever seen - hey, I know he
has one of those multi-stage miraculous recovery stories).  Speaking
of miracles, I once saw a BT-60 size F-to-F model lauched over woods
into 5-10 mph winds caught by the owner no more than 200 feet from 
the launcher.  Heck, if it had been up to me, I probably wouldn't have
seen it unless it hit me on the head (one of the reasons I mostly
fly RCRGs and draggy demo rockets).  I am amazed, however at how well
you can actually recover rockets when you know people are expecting
a demo (regardless of conditions - but never unsafe conditions - no
kidding).

Any miracle stories?

Kevin

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin McKiou                         UUCP:     att!ih4sm!kwm
NAR 51581
AMA 380751
AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, Ill      Internet: kwm@ih4sm.att.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: More info
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:53:24 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <3462@balrog.ctron.com>, smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith) writes:
> In article <2156@transfer.stratus.com>, cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
> >You can't buy HP engines (G's and over) without NAR or Tripoli
> >certification.  I don't know about local stores in Cleveland, sorry.
> 
> According to my North Coast Rocketry catalog, you don't need any permit for
> a 'G' engine.  Only H and higher.  They resell Aerotech.

Yeah, well, new news.  Read the posting about the recent NFPA meeting.  The
Consumer Product Safety Commission says that G's are a BANNED HAZARDOUS
SUBSTANCE.  AeroTech has asked for an exemption from this, but doesn't have
it yet.  So as of last week, G's require Tripoli or NAR membership to buy,
and are effectively Class B.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: ah157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rob Henry)
Subject: Re: Igniters
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 19:40:33 GMT



Thanks for the igniter info.
I'll try it out,as for the picture wire,is it all nichrome?Does it say on the
pack and what size would I need?As thin as is on estes solars?
The only thing I don't like about fuse is if it's windy they won't light.
If I use a lantern battery or whatever,
can I use a great length of wire?
100 ft or so?
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: r.m.r FAQ list
From: kane@urbana.mcd.mot.com (Patrick E Kane)
Date: 14 Apr 92 04:10:01 GMT
Organization: Motorola MCD, Urbana Design Center

[sorry,  my direct mail failed so I will post it here.  PEK]

I think a FAQ is a very good idea.

>         3) A list of computer software available both on Calvin
>            and from the original authors (e.g. Larry Curcio)

My kids and I could use that info right now and would be willing to
archive it on my system.    Can I ftp from "calvin" (is it on the internet)?

Pat Kane
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott)
Subject: Re: Prices
Organization: NEC America, Radio Software Dept
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 19:15:16 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.162633.5532@primerd.prime.com>, Jim Cook <J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM> writes:
|> In article <456@rml.UUCP> jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty) writes:
|> ...
|> >
|> >Still, there are areas (such as components) where absolute *gouging*
|> >is going on. As C.D's story illustrates, the companies are making a
|> >killing on component prices. I know that inventorying/picking/mailing
|> >items on a onesy-twosy basis is expensive, but get real!
|> <stuff deleted>
|> Well, try buying your supplies at Belleville Hobby.  You get 30% off on
|> Estes there.  If you can plan ahead and are willing to buy at least a
|> baker's dozen, you can get 40% on body tubes at the beginning of the year.

IMHO, Jack is right about price gouging.  I understand that Estes buys its
body tubes rather than make them.  I know of one individual who bought a large
stock of these direct from the manufacturer for resale to local club members.
18" 24mm body tubes were less than 50 cents each to club members, after the
enterprising indivual added his markup!  Compare that with a couple of bucks
(or more) in the latest catalog (I forget, is a BT-50, 18", about $2.40 from
Estes?).

I welcome Quest into the market.  Estes has had the market too long to itself.
Estes' past SOP was to raise prices to keep sales constant whenever total volume
dropped, due to recession or whatever.  Nothing like a little good ol' 
competition to knock some sense into a complacent company.  I hope Quest does
REAL good!

============================================================================
Buzz McDermott                   Internet: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com
NAR# 13559
============================================================================
From: mckiou@cbnewse.cb.att.com (kevin.w.mckiou)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Rocket into science class
Date: 17 Apr 92 04:49:33 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr17.014953.12298@uva386.schools.virginia.edu> wayne@uva386.schools.virginia.edu (Tony Wayne) writes:
>
>effects a parachute's rate of descent. Do any of you have any
>other ideas?  Be as specific as you can -It helps me :)
>
>Tony Wayne
Sounds like great fun!  

If you can get your hands on "The Handbook of Model Rocketry" by
G. Harry Stine (a call to the NAR Technical Service (214-644-2067)
will get you one for about $10.50 + $3.00 P&H) you can get tons
of ideas for classroom study.  Get a price sheet from NARTS.  It
also has bunches of neat stuff like:

Building the Boeing Wind Tunnel	$1.00
Flow Visualization Techniques	$1.00
Boost Glider Analysis		$1.00
Basic Glider Stability		$1.00
Fundamentals of Dynamic Stability	$3.50
Radio Telemetry Transmitters Lesson Plan	$3.50
Radio Telemetry Receivers and Antennas Lesson Plans	$3.50

And on and on.  Neat Stuff!

Kevin

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin McKiou                         UUCP:     att!ih4sm!kwm
NAR 51581
AMA 380751
AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, Ill      Internet: kwm@ih4sm.att.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott)
Subject: Re: r.m.r FAQ list
Organization: NEC America, Radio Software Dept
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 18:04:29 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.192539.10419@panix.com>, reynolds@panix.com (Brian Reynolds) writes:
|> 	How about a section for scale information?  A pointer to Peter
|> Alway's book, contact addresses at various "full scale" maunfacturers,
|> and other sources for scale data would be a good start.
|> 
|> Brian Reynolds
|> reynolds@panix.com
|> NAR# 54438

I personally think that several questions on scale would be appropriate for the
FAQ.  I also like the idea of a compiled list of scale sources.  I personally
think that to do such a list justice would make it too big for an FAQ and 
the FAQ would do better to reference the list as a source of info.  So, I'm
doing the FAQ and R.M. Jungclass has an excellent list of rocketry sources.
So who wants to tackle the scale info sources list?  Along those lines, I 
also think a good list of rocket clubs, etc., would be too big for the FAQ.
I would suggest seeing about putting the NAR section and Tripoli prefect lists 
on calvin and referencing them in the FAQ.  

============================================================================
Buzz McDermott                   Internet: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com
NAR # 13559
============================================================================
From: tim@maple_leaf.key.amdahl.com (Tim Nicholls)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Calvin ?
Keywords: calvin
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:26:31 GMT
Reply-To: tim@maple_leaf.key.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl


Can someone please post more information about calvin?

- such as the full net address?
- is calvin an ftp site?
- what type of information is available, if any?

And while I'm at it, does anyone know of any ftp sites were one can obtain public domain/shareware programs for CG&CP calculations and altitude determination (including drag coefficients)?

I run a BBS for BAYNAR and am looking for model rockets software for the IBM PC and Apple II computers to place on it. The BBS is dedicated to the model
rocketry and astronomy community. We also host a launch schedule for AEROPAC, so if your interested in knowing the summer launch dates for AEROPAC/TRIPOLI, give it a call.

FYI:

BAYNAR is "The SanFanciso Bay Area National Association of Rocketry", section 359, we currently have 185 members and are still growing. We "legally" fly out of De Anza college (Cupertino) every Sunday afternoon between 2:00 - 5:00 PM and the general public is always invited to attend and fly with us.

For more information please call (408) 738-1513   9:00 AM - 7:00 PM PDT
       or call BAYNAR-NET BBS at (408) 245-8564 300/1200/2400/N/8/1/24hrs

also:
Most hobby shops in the South Bay area carry informational flyers for BAYNAR
 


Tim Nicholls
Co-director BAYNAR
NAR 55238 
TRIPOLI 1556
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: eric@dimer.med.yale.edu (Eric M. Miller)
Subject: Help
Keywords: I forgot!
Organization: Yale University
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 23:39:48 GMT

Can someone please help me. I used to build model rockets (primarily Estes) when I was
younger.  I would like to do it again and would like a catalog but have lost the address.
Could someone please mail it to me.  Thanks!
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Old Estes Catalogs
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:46:04 GMT
Reply-To: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd.

In article <3436@balrog.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com writes:
>I've been paging through my old Estes and Centuri catalogs.  Remember when you
>could buy a complete kit for $1.50?  The Saturn V model was $16.95.  Estes
>prices nowadays are unnerving...

You must have a "new" old catalog :-)  My 1967 version shows the loss 
leader "Streak" kit at $0.50 and the newly introduced Saturn 1B at $9.50! 
Even at that it was more than twice as expensive than the next most expensive
kit, the Gemini-Titan at $4.00. The S1B, BTW, was bigger and more complex 
a kit that the later SV.

In the same catalog, the Mars Snooper goes for $3.00. Compare that to the
"nostalgia" version just introduced in the current catalog.

- Jack


=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
||"While your brains may not be so large to look at as those of the Scare- ||
||crow, you are really brighter than he is -- when you are well polished." ||
||    -- Glinda to the Tin Woodman, original edition                       ||
=============================================================================
From: smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: engine experimenr
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:12:24 GMT
Reply-To: smith@ctron.com
Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc.

In article <dy8tc==@rpi.edu>, vehlor@vccnorthe.its.rpi.edu (Richard Edward Vehlow) writes:

...a great deal about serious misuse of rocketry materials...

I'm going to assume that Richard posted this to this newsgroup merely to
start a flamewar.  Anyone at RPI with information to the contrary, such
as reports of mysterious brushfires or unusual medical problems for Richard
or his roommate can email me.  I'm saving the message, and will send it to
root@vccnorthe.its.rpi.edu if I get any confirmation of this lunacy.

Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com) No, I don't speak for Cabletron.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is called a "disgrace",
that two are called a "law firm", and that three or more become a "Congress".