HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rhb@world.std.com (Robert H Brueckner)
Subject: Re: Not a Myth at All
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 23:41:44 GMT

In article <3yRoVB1w165w@student.business.uwo.ca> k3amichi@student.business.uwo.ca (Kentaro Nakamichi) writes:


/quoted material follows/
   Racism is a strong word to use.  More often than not, it is 
   unfriendliness becuase people like to avoid those who are obviously 
   different.  This can seem like hostility if you're in the minority.
   Try to speak their language.  It's interesting to observe Americans in 
   France.  The French usually ignore the Americans and pretend they can't 
   speak English until the Americans make an effort to converse in French, 
   at which point lots of help is forthcoming either in French or in 
   English.  I see lots of people resisting the local culture and refusing 
   to learn the language or the customs.  Why is it that the Japanese always 
   stick together when they're abroad.  Why are ex-patriots often seen 
   together.  I'm not saying that it's bad to spend time with people from 
   your culture, just that it's always made more sense for me to get to know 
   lots of cultures and have some empathy.  Remember, when in Rome, do as 
   the good Romans do.
/end quoted material/

Well, the fact is, I speak much better Japanese than I do French. But
my pathetic attempts at Francaise were greeted warmly by anyone I met.
Whether they laughed at me after I left I don't know, and I don't much
care. But with Japanese people I do notice that it is very difficult
to get into a Japanese conversation at all with them. They switch to
English at the end of the first sentence and, even though my Japanese
is passable and articulate, seem totally uninterested. This is what
makes it so damnably hard to progress beyond my present plateau. I am
not rude, or condescending, or awkward. But the average Japanese you
meet does not seem very willing to strike up a conversation in his own
language. Even when I say, "Shitsurei desu ga, jikosho^kai sasete
itadakimasu," I will get an answer like, "Can I herp you preez?" I
really wish I had studied Italian or Russian or whatever, because I
would get a lot more opportunity to speak it with people who don't
mind talking to strangers.

RB

-- 
|"The truth is cruel, but it can be loved, and it makes free those who  |
| have loved it." -- George Santayana  // Opinions expressed here, when |
| clear and persuasive, are my own. --Rob Brueckner (rhb@world.std.com) |

Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.asian.america,soc.culture.usa,misc.education
From: nasiom@hall106.its.rpi.edu (Milton Peter Nasiopoulos)
Subject: Re: D O E S   A M E R I C A   S A Y   Y E S   T O   J A P A N ?
Reply-To: nasiom@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 13:13:46 GMT

Interesting topic indeed.  I must say, one of my humanities classes is all about

asian countries and I've learned that the schools in America are designed to 

"prepare" students for college NOT to educate them enouph to go out and get a

job after graduation. 


And as for Japanese schools, well, they are difficult but let me tell you, after

a Japanese student goes to college, all he does is party.  He is so prepared

for college that it's usually just a review and can do very little to pass.

  
I know that in China, if you graduate from college you are "guarentied" (sp) a

job no matter what your grades are.


And one last thing...parents in the US must get more involved in the school i.e.

go to parent's night, etc.  Parents should also motivate their children and not
 
yell at them constantly to do their homework.  It doesn`t work.  My parents have

only stepped into my high school about 3 times!  But they did motivate me at

home and they told me early on in high school why I need to do well and they 

answered that famous "why do I need algebra" question!
  

It seems to me that parents think it's ONLY up to the schools to teach but

without parent's help it won't work.  


milt.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,talk.politics.guns
From: jcliu@euler.Berkeley.EDU (James C. Liu - Nucl. Engin. UC Berkeley)
Subject: Re: Chotto!!!Sexuality?
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:34:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.124922.3058@peanut> kerkoveericj@bvc.edu writes:

>	I'd like to thank the last two people who posted under this 
>subject, it was refreshing.  I would like to clear up the fact that I use 
>the term girls/women, in order to avoid and argument over which one was the 
>better usage.  However, I refuse to use female, as it is a cold and 
>completely all-encompassing word.  I'm not taking about female carp or
>chickens is Japan, because their sexuality is no consern of mine.

Hey, if you're a male Carp, those female carp might be totemo iroppoi.
:-).

>	And, for the record, I still have all my hair!!! (This is for any
>of those Japanese girls/women who might read this, although it isn't short
>and spikey, it is dandruf free. Snicker, snicker.  AHEM!

Remember Wayne's words, "If you blow chunks and she still comes back...
she's yours."  Well, it applies here.  The dandruff is the test.  Not
the spikey hair with hair products to hold it up.  Although it does give
incentive to touch it at first! 8-)

Jaa, James
=======================================================================
James C. Liu |    KARAOKE Addict!     Karaoke: You're the STAR!!!!    |
             |    Wanna go? Need someone who sings worse than you do? |
             |    Know about a cool karaoke bar? send e-mail          |
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: cmr@world.std.com (Charles M Richmond)
Subject: Re: I'm outta here.
Organization: Integrated International Systems Corp. One Longfellow Place, Suite 3309, Boston, Ma.
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:32:31 GMT

blamb@hri.com (Bill Lambert) writes:

>In article <SMITTIE.92Dec10122957@tui.csulb.edu>, smittie@csulb.edu 
>(Smittie) writes:
>=> Well, the time has finally come for me and my family to go back to Japan (I and

>You take good care Smittie. I was in Japan last week, and I *almost*


I'll be in Japan from the 28-30th  (ouch!!)  My future father-in-law 
recently retired from Kawasaki Steel...  good luck there Smittie!

Charlie
-- 
*****************************************************************************
*  Charles Richmond 	Integrated International Systems Corporation        *
*  cmr@world.std.com	(Temporary) cmr@koneko.shr.dec.com		    *
*  Specializing in UNIX, X, Image Processing, and Communications.           *
From: keis@psy.uwa.oz.au (Keis Ohtsuka)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Not a Myth at All
Date: 16 Dec 1992 11:57:50 GMT
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: wapsy.psy.uwa.oz.au

jcliu@euler.Berkeley.EDU (James C. Liu - Nucl. Engin. UC Berkeley) writes:

>Are you sure it's the "look" and not the voice?  I find Korean and 
>Japanese language to be very *appealing* when spoken in a feminine
>tone.  But appearance wise, dude, I find that the Chinese gals are,
>uh hmmm, excuse me ladies, but "better endowed." [of course, not 
>every package is the same, contents may have settled during 
>shipping] 8-).

I always thought over-wrapping of merchandise is very common in
Japan. That must have caught up with people. 

>Another thing specific mostly to Japanese gals, is motion of the hand
>over the mouth prior to and during a giggle, which is most appealing
>and cute, but usually a let down because behind the hand is some
>pretty horrible dental work.  A close encounter usually brings back 
>nightmares of Sigourney Weaver as Lt. Ripley in the movie Aliens. 8-).

>I guess, one man's dog bite is a another man's kiss.

Cute? I don't think so. Come to think of it, giggling is very
jevenile behavior in North American culture. Adults rarely giggle
in public in Western Culture (unless one can't barely contain
oneself for some reason). It is more associated with intimate
behavior which shouldn't be demonstrated openly in public.
Japanese women giggling therefore intensifies a stereotype of
Asian Geisha girls whose only raison d'etre is to provide pleasure
to men.  I also noticed that Japanese young women incessantly 
fiddle with their hair. In the context of Western Culture, that
behavior is a deliberate attempt to attract men's attention.

Orthodontics in Japan is the final frontier and a window of
opportunities exist in '90s. Bill Clinton should bring it
in future trade talks. Imagine how many braces you could sell
to Japanese only if they open up their mouths! That should
get American steel industry going for a few years.
From: trent@cs.utexas.edu (Scott Ross Trent)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Texas Southern University marching band in To^kyo^
Date: 18 Dec 1992 10:04:07 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: tokio.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1glumhINNi4d@agate.berkeley.edu> robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu (Henry Robertson) writes:
>In article <BzBorr.68C@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> dwwillia@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (David Williams) writes:
[TSU incident]
>>I wish that every last one of them would have been thrown in jail.  That would
>>have been their just fate in any other country that I can think of.
>
>The group would have met just such a fate, had they been Filipinos or
>Blacks.
 ^^^^^^

If I remember the article I read right, they were students from an all-black
school.  In their defense, I would like to point out that out of 120, the paper
said that only fewer than 20 actually did any shop lifting.  AND that the
rest of the group was quite upset with those who did the deed.

-- 
scott                             /* We're the United States Government, we   */
trent@cs.utexas.edu               /* don't do that kind of thing! -- Sneakers */
From: k3amichi@student.business.uwo.ca (Kentaro Nakamichi)
Subject: Re: Is Japan crowded?
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 00:41:42 GMT

fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:

> In article <1992Dec8.163739.14987@acuson.com> miklg@acuson.com (Michael Goldm
> 
> [Much deleted]
> 	
> >	So why is Japan so successful ?  Again, very low interest rates
> >	support relatively huge capital investment resulting in
> >	relatively large productivity gains.  Also, most people focus
> >	on the rate of growth of Japan, not the absolute national
> >	productivity (which is very low) so it is not generally
> >	realized how long Japan has been playing catch-up.  Total
> >	national productivity is very much greater in the US and W.
> >	Germany than in Japan (1990 data).  If this seems strange, you
> >	are thinking in terms of the world class auto and electronics
> >	industries.  You need to think also of those absurdly
> >	over-staffed Japanese banks, and department stores, the
> >	feather-bedding in the Japanese railways, and all those tiny
> 	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Brings up an interesting (IMO) tangetial point: recently, JR West went on str
> against management's new proposals (a real strike, involving leaving about 1 
> 2 million people with no easy way to get to work, as opposed to the symbolic`
> lunch-time strikes). The new proposal that caused the upset: JR West wants to
> stop paying its workers (engineers, etc) for the time the train is actually 
> stopped at a station!
> 
> Mike
> -- 
> Disclaimer - Oh come on! You didn't think I was serious, did you?

This brings up lots of interesting points.  Let's split the whole thing 
into private and public sector and start analyzing.

In the private sector, the big multinationals are very efficient, but 
they are supported by hundreds of small or medium size firms that are 
extremely inefficient.  The automobile industry is a great example of 
these tendencies.  

In the public sector, the government and the ministries are very 
efficient.  I think they have the lowest ratio of government officials 
(including public servants) to the population (correct me if I'm wrong).  
At the same time, JR before its dismantling had the largest debt of any 
organization ever (again correct me if I'm wrong).  

There's obviously the whole gambit of performance here, although the very 
visible multinationals with their familiar trade names have done 
exceptionally well in the export market.

k3amichi@student.business.uwo.ca (Kentaro Nakamichi)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
From: hseung@anat3d1.anatomy.upenn.edu (Hyunsuk Seung)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Texas Southern University marching band in To^kyo^
Date: 18 Dec 92 21:56:39 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

yoichi@carson.u.washington.edu (Yoichi Ii) writes:
>...
>I agree that "manbiki" is not uncommon in Japan, but I have never heard
>of _mass_ shoplifting incidence.  IMO, "manbiki" by nature is a "clandestine" 
>act whereas "mass" tend to be visible.  A Jp news program called it a 
>"shuudan manbiki".  Is this a new word?

Well, back in mid-80's, I had witnessed in numerous occasions where
TsupPaRi high school students would shoplift in groups while they were
ShuuGaKuRyoKoh'ing in places such as NikKou or Nara, and they didn't
get caught.  Usually it was items such as comic books, buttons, and
key-holders.  Okay, so I didn't report them.  At least I didn't become
an IJiMeRaRekKo.

Hyunsuk Seung
hseung@anat3d1.anatomy.upenn.edu
From: white@ils.nwu.edu (John C. White)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Sexuality of Japanese Girls
Date: 14 Dec 92 17:28:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: ils.1992Dec14.172810.530
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1

In article <92345.074240RSAYLC@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com> Larry E. Cravetz,
RSAYLC@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com writes:
>That's odd, I always thought that people of the female gender were WOMEN
at
>those ages, not GIRLS. How silly of me.
>

If you insist on thinking, can't you at least have some original
thoughts? This kind of language policing has already been done by others!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,alt.sex,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.african.american,sci.electronics,misc.consumers,misc.education,misc.entrepreneurs
From: dhesi@cirrus.com (Rahul Dhesi)
Subject: Re: DOES AMERICA SAY YES TO JAPAN? - Off track!!
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:35:27 GMT

Two points.

1.   The US is not quite the pagon of free trade that Japan-bashers
make it out to be.  If you actually added up all the duties charged on
imported goods, and the many restrictions imposed on them in other
ways, you would be quite shocked.  The US is better than many other
countries, but it does impose NUMEROUS restrictions on imports.  So the
difference between Japan and the US is primarily one of what *sorts* of
restrictions are imposed, not *whether* restrictions are imposed.  And
even within its borders, there are thousands of examples of the same
sort of thing the Japan is being accused of; the most obvious example
is farm and food subsidies.

The US is NOT in a position to set a good example.  Why don't we
in the US clean our own house first, before blaming the Japanese
for all problems?

2.   Every restriction imposed on imports into the US hurts Americans.
You may argue that it will hurt the trading partner more, but I happen
to believe that it hurts Americans more.  This could be an endless debate,
but you have to agree that both points of view are arguable.  It's
hardly a black-and-white issue.
-- 
Rahul Dhesi <dhesi@cirrus.com>
also: dhesi@rahul.net
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.asian.america,soc.culture.usa,misc.education
From: tleylan@pegasus.com (Tom Leylan)
Subject: Re: DOES AMERICA SAY YES TO JAPAN?
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 19:58:38 GMT

irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:

>Yes, but Bill Gates DROPPED OUT OF SCHOOL.  You, my friend, are a victim
>of media sensationalism and cute snappy sound bites.

Ummm... I think you'll find that he DROPPED OUT OF COLLEGE and not because
he was failing but by rational choice.  You, my friend, are trying to
distort facts to prove your own far-fetched hypotheticals.

<re: my comment on teacher salaries>
>
>Unfortunatley, you ASSUME that the market works perfectly.  When people
>decide to pay teachers more, then better teachers will result.  I agree
>that you get what you pay for, but the decision process is now "Do we
>pay teachers more or not?"  

Actually I assume the market works as good as any other system and much
better than a committee arbitrarily deciding that a teacher is worth
twice an auto mechanic or one-half of an electrical engineer.

You can pay teachers whatever you want, there are no restrictions on
what you pay your own employees.  Oh but you want to force me to pay my
teachers more because you've determined that more money means better
education.

<re: my comment on what Americans concern themselves with>
>
>Boy, and that is ALL we think about.  Nothing else at all.
>
If I said "ALL" I stand corrected but I believe you've just slanted what
I wrote again to sound smarter.  Americans feel obligated to be in
everybody's bedroom, that's a fact which you can confirm by reading the
newspaper or watching TV.

>>tom
> ^^^
>	twit supreme
>
You can be both wrong and rude, how unique for a college student.

tom
From: jcliu@four-lab4.Berkeley.EDU (James C. Liu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: some questions
Date: 17 Dec 1992 05:44:13 GMT
Organization: UC Berkeley Dept. of Nuclear Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: four-lab4.berkeley.edu

In article <484@ub-tky.UBSPD.CO.JP> tobac@ub-tky.UBSPD.CO.JP 
(Bach Frederic) writes:

  >My dictionary says that to grunt is intransitive, i.e. no direct object.
  >You cannot grunt something. It is not because our karaoke addicted 
  >friend talks to you about predicates and relative subordinate sentences
  >that what he "grunts" is correct...

Excusez, moi.  Uhh hmmm.  I should have qualified all my responses 
because my intent was not clear.  I tried to provide simple rules
to American English and did a poor job of it...I hope the original
Japanese poster was not too confused.  Gomen.  However, on your point 
of trans/intransitive verbs, Grunt is both transitive and intransitive.  
I checked my dictionary.  No 'vt' or 'vi.'  Just a v, which means it's both.  

IMHO, American English is constantly in rapid flux.  That's why 
American English is much harder for foreigners to *master* than say
Japanese.  We can observe this through the evolution of slang which 
slowly makes it into acceptable English grammar. One example is the 
traditional transitive verb "hit."  Often listed as a transitive verb,
today we use it also in intransitive form...for example, in the 
context of baseball: A:  "Can he hit?" B:  "Sure.  He hits."
  
As for insinuating that my karaoke addiction makes me unqualified to 
comment on English, I don't see the relationship...Sure, I sing in
Japanese, but I'm thinking about all those kirei na onna in English! ;-)

Jaa, James
=======================================================================
James C. Liu |    KARAOKE Addict!     Karaoke: You're the STAR!!!!    |
             |    Wanna go? Need someone who sings worse than you do? |
             |    Know about a cool karaoke bar? send e-mail          |
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: jcliu@euler.Berkeley.EDU (James C. Liu - Nucl. Engin. UC Berkeley)
Subject: Re: DOES AMERICA SAY YES TO JAPAN? - Off track!!
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 05:46:37 GMT

In article <BzFKnw.JpI@news.cso.uiuc.edu> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu 
(Brent Irvine) writes:

>So, for instance, when Silicon Valley lays off 30,000 Electrical Engineers,
>it is because their skills have become obsolete and should pursue new
>careers?  WRONG!  

You call those sales guys engineers?  Come ON!!!  Most of the white collar
workers who get laid off are glorified and overpaid sales.  There's still
demand for good technical support and systems engineers...real EE guys who 
get laid off just find another job at another company.  Hey, I live out here.
I see it happening.  This 30,000 EE guys getting laid off is an adjustment
of priorities in companies getting rid of unneeded sales guys.  Granted,
sales guys get huge commissions and make big bucks easily in the 6 figs
(why do you think the average price of a home in the Bay Area is so high)
but companies are learning they can increase profits from less useless
personnel, lower commissions, and better utilization of their tech people.
 
Jaa, James
=======================================================================
James C. Liu |    KARAOKE Addict!     Karaoke: You're the STAR!!!!    |
             |    Wanna go? Need someone who sings worse than you do? |
             |    Know about a cool karaoke bar? send e-mail          |
=======================================================================
From: galler@cs.mcgill.ca (Michael GALLER)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: A Ketou by any Other Name
Date: 15 Dec 92 02:28:23 GMT
Organization: SOCS - Mcgill University, Montreal, Canada

In article <33330@twics.co.jp> dcroz@twics.co.jp writes:
>write
> 
>=}The incidents you describe are similar to what people of colour living in
>=}Europe and North America experience every day of their lives.
> 
>     1.  Without wishing in any way to deny the significance of such racism as
>exists in the US, I don't buy the proposition that the tenor and sheer volume
>of day-to-day racist assault are similar.  
>  ..... 
>     Sorry, but I simply don't believe that anyone in the U.S. could get away
>with displaying on a daily basis the sort of racism that is standard in Japan. 
> 

That was my point. You are white, and prejudice in America just doesn't seem
like a serious problem to you, perhaps less serious than the problem of
reverse-discrimination. However, being the butt of ignorant remarks
in Japan convinces you they are the world's most bigoted race. Both claims 
are wrong. Both reflect a failure of imagination and experience.

> 
>     It looks to me like you're saying that racism is meritorious when directed
>at caucasians, and the racists involved should not, therefore, be criticized.  
> 

Criticize them, by all means. But have some perspective.  And don't
develop a ridiculously inflated self-pity.
Most Japanese, like most Americans, are actually very pleasant people 
in spite of their prejudices.

As a final note, if you honestly believe that the racist "ideology"
of the Japanese is worse than Hitlerism, you must live in fear for your
life. If so, perhaps you should return to your native country.
Somehow I doubt you will be leaving many friends behind.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: mike@clubmezz.Berkeley.EDU (Michael T. Itamura)
Subject: Re: Texas Southern University marching band in To^kyo^
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 05:02:22 GMT

In article <BzC2v7.24D@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> dwwillia@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (David Williams) writes:
>I'll be honest.  I had forgotten that TSU was a predominantly black, poor,
>urban school when I read about the incident.  I just had a vision of 120 
>college kids rampaging in Akihabara: I didn't consider their race.  Somehow I
>feel mollified in that Japanese people will condemn blacks specifically, and
>not Americans generally, for their behavior.

	So you are mollified that the Japanese would condemn
blacks specifically and not Americans for their behavior.  Personally
I am hoping that the Japanese will not generalize the behavior of
these ugly Americans to any Americans - be they white/black or
whatever.

						A couple of Japanese that I
>talked to said that this would be the case.

	Wonderful...  :-(

				Mike Itamura
				mike@clubmezz.berkeley.edu
Xref: sparky soc.culture.japan:12335 talk.politics.guns:25196