HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Communism as a Russian guilt (racist conception)
Date: 22 Dec 92 00:37:27 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu

In article <kosinov.724976519@ceg.uiuc.edu> kosinov@ceg.uiuc.edu (Greg Kosinovsky) writes:
>  Can Mr. Borodin, or anybody else point out ANY contempory writings about Jewish
>life that were published at that time? 

Or, plenty. 90% of books published in Soviet time were about life of _Soviet_
people. Neither russians, Ukrainians or Jews, but _soviets_. Some of them were
written  by Jews. Mostly in Russian. So what? 99% of Jews in Russia have and
ever had better command of Russian than Hebrew, why would they write in Hebrew?
When some of them were given a choice which language to write on, most choose
... Russian, with English as second choice. 

Now, who in the hell started this stupid discussion again?

Yury M.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: tb11056@cehp7 (Tatiana Bakharev)
Subject: Re: BUYING RUBLES
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 17:55:08 GMT

In soc.culture.soviet you write:

>In article <1h6b56INNnni@agate.berkeley.edu>, robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu (Henry Robertson) writes:
>> I am collecting foreign currencies....if interested, please contact me
>> by e-mail.                            
>> 

> And me is collecting local one as well...if interested, please contact me
>by e-mail.                            

>Serega
I have a lot of russian bills, coins, metrpolitan tokens etc. If intresting
I can send you COD.
Also I have some Poll Pott bills from Kampuchea. This kind of bills never
used as currency because of Poll Pott cancellation of Monetary System, and
Vietnams during their occupation destroy the most of them. My relative
was the superintendant of the Soveiet Embassy during the first period of
Vietnam occupation and he was presented these bills as a souvenrs.

           Very truly yours 
                    Alexander Bakharev.
E-mail tb11056@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu
       tbakhar@civilgate.ce.uiuc.edu
Phone (217)-3284467

Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.europe
From: sorokin@ps1.iaee.tuwien.ac.at (Zhenja)
Subject: Re: Russian Speakers in Estonia: The Linguistic Approach.
Organization: Inst. for General Electrics & Electronics, TU Vienna
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 13:46:27 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.090407.1@cc.helsinki.fi> thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi writes:

>In article <sorokin.27@ps1.iaee.tuwien.ac.at>, sorokin@ps1.iaee.tuwien.ac.at 
>(Zhenja) writes:

>> And, do not forget, there are 3 languages in Switzerland, and 
>> at least two of them were from previous oppressors (German and French).

>Four, if you add Rheto-Rhumainian (Reto-Romania). But it's judicial status
>might be different.

>Besides, German was never a language of "oppressors" in Switzerland.
>In Bern German was spoken from the very beginning. The same goes to French
>in cantons like Valais/Wallis.

"Very beginning" should be understood as "since the end of Roman Empire".
There was no french before.
About oppressors: independance of Switzerland (at least german cantons) was 
independance from Habsburgs, wasn't it? Besides, if we now start to consider 
who spoke which language some 800 years ago in what region, then we'll never 
come to any reasonable understanding. Russian patriots will remember 
Yuriev (Derpt, Tartu), german patriots will point out that Riga was latvian 
maybe less than 10% of its history (from these ten 6% is soviet time), and 
so on. You know, Volkswanderung (I definitely do not know english 
equivalent, sorry) hadn't finished ten ages ago. It is still on the way... 
My idea is, that there have to be a reasonable time, when you should stop 
going back to history, because it'll bring you NOTHING, but conflict.

>with best regards
>Tapani Hietaniemi, Universitas Helsingiensis
>                   urbs fennorum

PS. I'll continue thema "..small people's faith", when I get new information 
from my friends. I'm going to criticize some considerations of Tapani. At 
the same time I wnat to express my genuine gratitude, since some of his 
ideas were practical.

Best regards,
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: schoinas@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas)
Subject: Re: Bulgarians, Bosnians, and Croats (was re: Will Russia stand beside Serbia?)
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 04:39:38 GMT

iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski) writes:

>In article <schoinas.725007459@cs.wisc.edu> schoinas@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas) writes:
><iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski) writes:
><>(1) the Proto-Bulgars [...] (2) [...] came to the south side
><>of the River Danube as settlers, not as conquerors, and they became
><>allies of the Slavic population in their struggle against Byzantium,
><
><I would say that you are very accurate on your second point. 
><Do you care to explain to me the difference between settlers
><and conquerors?

>Conquerors use force against the indigenous population to obtain and
>preserve the right to stay there.  Settlers don't.  I'm not aware of
>any battles between Bulgars and Slavs for any part of the territory,
>and if there had been any, I don't see what chances the Bulgars would
>have had.  Numbers mattered a lot before the invention of firearms.

><As for the relationship of the Bulgars and their Slavs subjects, I
><would not say it was as romantic as you suggest.

>The relationship between rulers and subjects is never anything like
>romantic, but in this case I'm less then convinced that the Bulgars
>were necessarily the rulers and the Slavs the subjects to begin with.

Just two things.

Neither the Slavs or the Bulgars were the indigenous population of the area.
They crossed the Danube together as conquerors.

There was a great transportation of something like 200000 Slavs from Bulgaria 
to Asia Minor(8th or 10th century) and one of the reasons is said to be the
frictions with the old Bulgar nobility.

						 Bye,
						Yannis.
From: mam18@jaguar.uofs.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Another zagadka.
Date: 28 Dec 92 17:29:29 GMT
Organization: University of Scranton

In article <1hfefoINN4ef@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, exs16@po.CWRU.Edu (Eugene Shumulinsky) writes:
>  
>    Well there is this one guy who wants to get into this city. To get into
> the city he has to go through one of the two IDENTICAL gates. Only 1 GATE
> leads to the city but it's impossible to tell since they are identical.
> 'Podle' (near) each gate there is a guard. So there is a total of two
> guards who are twins and they are exactly IDENTICAL. The only difference is
> that one of them always tells the TRUTH and the other always LIES.
> 
> What question must the guy ask (only 1 question) to get into the city?

I think this one even easier than the first one.  Here is my answer:

the question is: "Does the lier guards the gates to the city?"

If the guard says "Yes" and 1) he is a lier,
                               then it means "NO" and this is the wrong gates;
                            2) he is honest,
                                then this is the wrong gates again!

If he says "No" and 1) he is a lier,
                       then it means "Yes" and this is the right gates;
                    2) he is honest,
                       then it is the right gates again!

So, whatever he says, the necessary information doesn't depend on his being
honest or dishonest.
 
> Happy Holidays.

Same to everybody,

Michael Martynov.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: ralex@world.std.com (Aleksey Y Romanov)
Subject: modem for Russia
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 04:13:57 GMT

Hi,

A friend of mine would like to buy a modem to use it in Russia.
What is a reasonable speed he should look for ?
Are hays modems popular in Russia ?
Can fax modem work over Russian telphone lines ?

Any help will be appreciated.


Thank you 

Aleksey
From: zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: zadachka: pro bochky meda i lozhku degtja
Date: 29 Dec 92 06:56:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Dec29.015627.18877
Organization: The Phallogocentric Cabal

In article <1hnv5qINNj43@shelley.u.washington.edu> 
ingerman@milton.u.washington.edu (David Ingerman) writes:

>Nekto imeet bochky meda i banochku degtja. 
>Vjisheupomjanutaja lichnost' zacherpivaet lozhku degtja
>is banochki i bjilivaet (ili bjitrjakhivaet) eje v bochku meda.
>Dalee vreditel' peremeshivaet soderzhimoe bochki i perelivaet
>lozhku smesi nazad v banochku s degtem, posle chego peremeshivaet
>soderzhimoe banochki. Upomjanutji prozes povtorjaetcja tri rasa (vsego).
>Vopros chego stalo bol'she degtja v bochke ili meda v banke.
>(imeetsja v vidu absoljutnji ob^em).

	=

>David.

cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
"Le cul des femmes est monotone comme l'esprit des hommes."
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:11771 talk.politics.soviet:10187 soc.culture.europe:10976
From: hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: Results of WW II (was: Russian speakers in Estonia)
Date: 3 Jan 93 20:08:30 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.soviet
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <Sorokin.42.726073001@ps1.iaee.tuwien.ac.at> Sorokin@ps1.iaee.tuwien.ac.at (Sorokin Zhenya) writes:

> In article <Jan.2.18.07.20.1993.13432@pilot.njin.net> hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey) writes:
> 
> >
> >One can see similar (economic) expansions in this century. The
> >defeats inflicted on Japan and Germany did not permanently
> >halt their progress, whereas some nations which did not
> >enter WWII are still behind. And some nations which won
> >WWII are still lagging behind.
> >
> 
> Just to start new discussion:
> 
> To my mind, the results of the WW II are really very controversal.


This is an interesting topic. The reason I alluded to this was because
of the long term trends (centuries) I alluded to in my previous post.

In another post, I gave references to Ibn Khaldun and Ayn Rand's
views on the topic. I now found the reference to the Indian
philosopher that I mentioned previously. The book was out of
print last time I checked but a short description can be
found in Batra, The Great Depression of 1990. The philosopher's
name is Sarkar and his ideas follow on the pattern of Khaldun
and Rand.

Your analysis is a detailed analysis. If we are to look for
a more universal law (and a short one employing Occam's Razor),
the ideas of the people above are (to my mind) a very good
explanation of the rise and fall of nations and empires. Batra's
economic predctionss and analysis might or might not be correct
but the general ideas on why nations go through periods of 
growth and then decay and why temporary setbacks do not permanently
destroy the rising cultures seem to be reasonable. It's recursive.
Conditions create the attitudes of people and the attitudesof
peoples persist over long time periods. At one time I thought of
mathematically modeling this phenomenon but I've had to devote
time to other projects. They're all excellent reading material.

Sincerely,
-- 

	mark	

   hubey@amiga.montclair.edu         hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
   hubey@pilot.njin.net               ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey    
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: oleg@netcom.com (Oleg Kiselev)
Subject: Re: A DIARY OF DISGRACE
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 10:34:43 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.003830.32404@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> hra2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Hibatur Rahman Ahmad) writes:
[134 lines deleted]

It is quite obvious that the fault lies with Armenians who are trying to
kill more Turks by stirring up trouble among the friendly and peaceful
nations.  Where's Mutlu when you need him to shine the light of truth upon
the evil deeds of the Armenians?
-- 
Oleg Kiselev at home			...use the header to find the path
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: sasha@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alexander.kostomaroff)
Subject: Re: 8-(
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:28:25 GMT

.reg Landsberg
of SUNY at Stony Brook
writes in his follow-up on my posting:

>>I'm sorry,  but ``v  russko-literaturnom  znachenii'' this  verse should be
>>named  ``plagiat.'' See  ``Vot ya  vnov'  posetil'' by Joseph  Brodsky. You
>>copied  too much  from  their,  starting with  first  line and  ending with
>>rhythmic pattern. Well, it could be unintentionally of course, but still...
>>
>>Greg

Mr. Landsberg,

if you pay any attention to the punctuation, you may see that the words
<vot ya vnov' posetil> are set in the quotation marks. So much for your
discovery about the authorship.

The verse in question is certainly influenced by the "Ot Okrainy k Tsentru"
by J.Brodsky. There is nothing shameful in such an association: world literature
of the highest standards is full of the same. (I don't imply this way that my
verse belongs to the Olympus of poetry). The metre - I guess that's what you
refer as "rythmic pattern"  - is just one of the few existing in the Russian
poetic language. If you do a little research in some standard text book, you
may even figure the name.

Anyway, plagiarizm is "an appropriation of writings and ideas of another
as one's own". Before accusing anybody in such an act, think first - 
or your face may look assimetrical for awhile. BTW, the English word is
"plagiarim" not "plagiat".

If not the desire to set the record straight for the rest of netters,
I would not dignify you personally with a response.

A. Kostomaroff
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: Adam Lawrence Salter <adam@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: BUYING RUBLES, Alaska
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 09:32:53 GMT
	<1992Dec26.203545.1@acad3.alaska.edu>

  In article <1992Dec26.203545.1@acad3.alaska.edu>,
  nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu writes:

>In article <15205.2b371368@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu>, viznyuk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
>> In article <1h6b56INNnni@agate.berkeley.edu>, robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu (Henry Robertson) writes:
>>> I am collecting foreign currencies....if interested, please contact me
>>> by e-mail.                            
>>> 
>> 
>>  And me is collecting local one as well...if interested, please contact me
>> by e-mail.                            
>> 
>> Serega
>
>If anyone would liek to find out how to get RUBLES, then send to the following
>address..
>
>Rasmussens
>General Delivery
>Nome, AK 99762
>
>They buy and sell rubles or know some who do.. Rubles at last I heard were
>going for on a normal exchange for good of about 40 to 1. But you can by some
>fro a few dollers..
>
>Nome is one of the few towns that accepts RUBLES for good, atleast at some
>places.
>
>Michael Adams
>Alias: Morgoth/Ghost Wheel 
>nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu

  Hi, isn't Nome spelt Gnome? No, I guess I'm wrong it isn't. Anyway, I think
that exchange rate me a little teeny weency bit off. So why do you live up
there? Job? Did your parents live there?


                                                    later,
                                                     adam
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:11570 talk.politics.soviet:10005 soc.culture.europe:10815
From: opaloneva@abo.fi (Olli-Jukka Paloneva)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: Svjatovyi Boi ?
Date: 26 Dec 92 19:15:29 GMT
Organization: Turku School Of Economics
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1

In article <15221.2b38722f@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> ,
viznyuk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
> ?? "O????Ao ? ?o? -o???O[[
>
>Serega

I'd like to ask of the level your military training and
ablility to go to an battle?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: kosinov@ceg.uiuc.edu (Greg Kosinovsky)
Subject: Re: Communism as a Russian guilt (racist conception)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 21:52:33 GMT

sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin) writes:

>In article <kosinov.724705426@ceg.uiuc.edu> kosinov@ceg.uiuc.edu (Greg Kosinovsky) writes:

>>1) Nash Sovremennik was nothing like the "Yiddish Magazine".

> That's for sure. And I'd add, nothing like other numerous magazines.
> Perhaps, "Novyi Mir" might be put in a row. 

  I am not going to respond to the line above, I just wanted to save it here
for present and future reference as a sample of Borodin's mentality.

>> Can you name me ONE Russian Nationalist, who did NOT
>>challenge the fundumental Leninist dogma, who was imprisoned during Breznev
>>era.

> You mean "who did not challenge... AND was imprisoned", correct? Why would he 
> be imrisoned? For what reason? Ohh, I get it, from your point of view, Russian
> nationalism means "bei zhidov", correct? So, you're asking to name one person
> who said "bei zhidov" and for that reason was imprisoned. If I'm correct, am I?,

  No, you are absolutely not correct. The examples I wanted to hear were of
people getting imprisoned for teaching Russian language to children, for orga-
nizing seminars on Russian culture and literature, for speaking openly and
proudly of their Russian identity.
 If you substitute the word "Jewish" for "Russian" in the sentence above, then
all of the above was happening -- in our (Brezhnev's) time -- and not just in
Stalin's time, when most major Jewish national artistic and literary figures were 
rounded up and shot in one sweep, following the assasination of Solomon Mihoels.
						      Greg.
From: cerrlbd@TECHUNIX.TECHNION.AC.IL (Boris Dainson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re:  Another zagadka.
Date: 26 Dec 92 14:37:32 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

You can always get from both of the guards the lie answer on a question if
you pose it as following: "What will your brother tell if he is asked ...
(your question)"! The pair of a lier and a honest guy will always invert
a proper answer.

Happy holydays!

Boris Dainson
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: gmfich@cs.washington.edu (Greg Fichtenholtz)
Subject: couple of jokes
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 93 23:13:21 GMT

Hey everybody!
Happy New Year's !!!!

BTW, where did all jokes go?
Cmon people, let's keep it up!
After all, this maybe the only good thing left on the net :)
Here is my new year's contribution :

V tramvae edut matros, staraya babka i narkoman. 
Babka (obraschayas' k narkomanu) - Synok, probei talon!
Narkoman (k matrosu) - Soldat, a soldat! Probei talon!
Matros (serdito) - Ja ne soldat. Ja - matros!
Narkoman (starushke, zakativ glaza) - Oblomis' , staraya. My na korable!

-----------------

Tramvai. Sidit negr i chitaet gazety na evreiskom yazyke.
Pozhiloi muzhchina obraschayetsya k nemu : " Molodoi chelovek, vam chto malo
					    togo, chto vy negr ?"

-----------------

Enjoy.




-- 
=============================++===================================
Gregory Fichtenholtz         ||          |~~~ |~\ |  | | | |   /| 
gmfich@cs.washington.edu     ||          |    |_/ | /| | | |  /_| 
                             ||          |    |   |/ | |_|_| /  | .
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: mashina <novost@halcyon.com>
Subject: Dacha System Abolished
Originator: novost@halcyon.com
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 20:08:09 GMT

Per a UPI report, Yeltsin has abolished the policy of giving
dachas to high ranking government officials.  Have a copy of
the report if interested.
                          Jeff
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.soviet
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Subject: Re: Bilingualism (a minor rectification)
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 13:50:30 GMT

In article <1993Jan2.111506.9891@enea.se>, sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) 
writes:

> The best recipe for making Estonia a difficult conquest is to
> make everyone in Estonia be against any reunion with Russia,
> which is achieved by making Estonia a state of prosperity,
> wealth and freedom. And you can only reach this if you work
> hard - Estonians and Russians together. But if you disenfranchise
                                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> the Russians, why should they be interested in any sacrifies
> for building the Estonian state?

I agree with everything with your posting (which was targeted to
Tanel Tammet). Still, there is one unhappy word: "disenfranchise".

There are no people disenfranchised in Estonia. Not even the ESTONIAN
CITIZENS that supported the attempted coup or were involved in KGB
activities against the Estonian state.

According to the constitution:
"No person that has aqcuired the Estonian citizenship by birth may be
deprived of it." (Art. 8)

Only people enfranchised (citizens) could be disenfranchised. The question
has been, who is considered to be a citizen. Especially the Russian
citizens (or people that will become Russian citizens) could by no means
be "disenfranchised" by the Estonian republic, even if it wanted to.

with best regards
Tapani Hietaniemi, Universitas Helsingiensis
                   urbs fennorum

Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: dmbriggs@vela.acs.oakland.edu (BRIGGS DENNIS M)
Subject: Re: The future of RUSSIA: 4 alternatives (from the Finnish point of view)
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 17:50:46 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.042859.27418@netcom.com> lion@netcom.com (carl loeber) writes:
>Do Russians realize that there is little genuine representative
>government here, and are they being careful to prevent a change
>to plutacracy?

I hope Russians realize that there is a great diversity of opinion in
the USA, and that Carl is not speaking for all of us!

--Mike Briggs
From: verbit@brauer.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Communism as a Russian guilt (racist concepti
Date: 24 Dec 92 07:37:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Dec24.023750.18817
Organization: Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv

In article <103124@netnews.upenn.edu> sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin) writes:
>In article <1992Dec23.182121.18805@husc3.harvard.edu> verbit@brauer.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:
>
>>	I am not very happy to support Borodin's
>>	statements (as I believe that he is antisemite)
>
>  You always surprise me.  Often you sound as a reasonable person,
>  but suddenly something clicks and your words become moronicaly
>  colored. First of all I don't see any reason even to mention
>  my name. Secondly, logic of your words is very similar to the
>  following (I remember that you're a mathematician) : I'm not
>  happy that this formula is correct, because I don't like the
>  personality of the author. Sounds silly, doesn't it? 
>  
>  And the last thing. Your beleifs are your private matter. 
>  But when you publicise them they become accusations, and in 
>  this case I would like to see any evidence of my "antisemitism"
>  or publically available apologies.
>  Your choice.
>
>
>>	but any sane person should agree here.
>
>>	Misha.
>
> S.B.


Dear Sergei:

I am sorry, I apologize. If I knew that you'll be discontent
with labeling you as antisemite I'd use another word.
Antizionist or antirussophob, if you wish. 

I did not think that my personal beliefs are the matter
of vast concern :)

Misha.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.europe