HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jeff@maggot.gg.caltech.edu (Jeff Goldsmith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: YANKEE REFLECTIONS ANYONE???
Date: 27 Jan 1993 00:19:44 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: all
NNTP-Posting-Host: maggot.gg.caltech.edu

In <1993Jan26.084552.1@sscvx1.ssc.gov> kasper@sscvx1.ssc.gov writes:

>This seems to be a recurrent theme.  It is true that Mattingly walks
>infrequently, but this could be attributed to the fact that he almost always
>makes contact and puts the ball in play rather than to impatience.  It is
>difficult to walk a lot if you rarely swing and miss.  In any event, this is a

Wade Boggs is a many-sigma counterexample.  There was a stat a couple of
years back noting how rarely he had swung and missed, something like two
dozen times all season.  Wade walks over 100 times per year.  

>One other Mattingly question:  are the incessant complaints about Mattingly
>that appear here caused by: a) the fact that Mattingly isn't as good as he used
>to be or b)people really believing that he is no good.  All of the stats from
>the last few years do not show that Mattingly stinks - they only show that
>there are other first basemen in the league that have performed better, and
>that there are other first basemen in the league that have performed worse.

a) People keep referring to Mattingly as the best player in the league.
That is very far from true.  b) He is playing first base and hitting in
the center of the lineup.  You need to be very good to hit third or fourth,
and first basemen are not paid for defence.  They have to hit.  c) He's
apparently declining.  Take 80% (random number) of what he is now and you
have a hole that needs filling quickly.
				--Jeff
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dtokarew@tokafew.Doc.Provo.Novell.COM (Deb Tokarewich)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Sandberg (was Re: Ty Griffen)
Date: 21 Jan 93 18:44:48 GMT
Organization: Novell, Inc.

In article <2272@blue.cis.pitt.edu> genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:

>Thus spake 00bjgood@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu:

>>There was talk of moving Ryno back to third when Griffen got
>>to the majors. He was thought to be THAT good. Well anyway Ryno became 
>>more than just a former MVP, he bacame the premier second baseman in
>>history

> Hee hee.
> 
> Do they really believe this in Chicago?  Talk about parochialism...

Not only do many people in Chicago believe this, but elsewhere too. And  
all of these people are not merely "parochial" fans, but also various  
analysts, historians, coaches, managers, players...

Hee hee.
From: jplee@zeus.calpoly.edu (Jason Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Change the game?
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:46:45 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo

In article <1k3k7sINNr7l@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bz832@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Wesley R. Kemmerlin) states:
>I have a solution to this problem:
>
>The pitcher has to bat, but there can be a DH for another position
>player.
>
>This solution would keep the strategy in the game while adding more
>offense. What do all of you pro and anti DHers think about this
>solution?

Ack.  I am vehemently opposed to the DH, but this makes no sense.  The
purpose of the DH (maligned though it is) is to remove the traditionally
weakest hitter from the lineup and replace him with a position player.  I
hate saying this, but this would be one spot where I would absolutely rather
see the regular DH rule.
J
-- 
Jason Lee
jplee@cymbal.calpoly.edu

A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean a mother.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jlundy@bilbo.encore.com (Joe Lundy)
Subject: Re: Morgan vs. Sandberg
Organization: Mr. Avacado Head Products, Inc.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:49:40 GMT

In article <21778@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, ez027993@dale.ucdavis.edu (Gary Prisoner Huckabay) writes:
|> Deb T. writes:
|> 
|> >Why not let's try your comment this way: It is safe to say that Morgan is  
|> >the better offensive player, but that doesn't begin to make up the  
|> >defensive ground between them.
|> 
|> Well, how about because it's foolish, obtuse, and just generally counter-
|> productive?  First off, unless it's Dwayne Murphy vs. William Conrad
|> in center field does any position have such a huge defenisve disparity.

If you are talking about Mark Belanger vs. Buddy Ebsen at shortstop, it may
be quite the gap defensively.  Offensively, I'm not so sure.

I have to agree with Gary on Joe Morgan.  He's the best 2nd baseman of all time
period.  Sandberg is a future HOF'er in all likelyhood, but its like comparing
Carl Yastrzemski to Willie Mays.  I think that's an appropriate gap.  Two great
outfielders, but still a gap.  Morgan did it all at 2nd base, and for so many
years.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Joe Lundy           Encore Computer Corporation, 6901 W. Sunrise Blvd.    |
| jlundy@encore.com   Mail Stop 811, Ft. Lauderdale, FL  33313-4499         |
| "The current discussion of Average vs Replacement level is sort of like   |
| asking "Which is a better measure of how warm it is, Fahrenheit or        |
| Kelvin?" - paul                                                           |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: msl@cv.hp.com (Mark Laventhal )
Subject: Re: Playoffs
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.9 PL6]
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:38:00 GMT

eric smith (erics@sco.COM) wrote:
> 
> <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu> writes:
> 
> >i'm not sure how 1981 worked, so let's forget about it for a minute.
> >other than 1981, there have been twenty-three seasons with division
> >play.
> 
> The split season utilized in 1981 due to the strike caused the team
> with best overall season-long record, the Cincinnati Reds, to miss
> the playoffs entirely.
> 

Not only that, but the NL team with the second best overall season-long
record, the St. Louis Cardinals, also missed the playoffs entirely.

Mark Laventhal 
Xref: sparky rec.sport.baseball:38519 soc.women:23143 soc.men:23388
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,soc.women,soc.men
Subject: Re: Women Sports Reporters
Date: 27 Jan 93 06:01:10 GMT
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <jaeastman-260193094901@jmac.msd.anl.gov> jaeastman@anl.gov (Jeff Eastman) writes:
>Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if male reporters are allowed into
>the lockerooms of female tennis pros?

If you were really curious, you'd read a bit of the month-old thread,
which answers your question about 25 times.

Once more: the answer is No.  And neither are female reporters.
And reporters (either sex) are also banned from *male* pro tennis
locker rooms.

Better?

Roger
From: genzuk@mizar.usc.edu (Michael Genzuk)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Change the game?
Date: 26 Jan 1993 12:54:33 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

I for one vote to eliminate the DH.  I think that it takes away from the game.
I feel that one of the key elments to baseball is when to pull a pitcher
for a pinch hitter.  Also the strategy of when to have a pitcher bunt vs.
swinging away.  It adds a dimension to the game that the DH just cannot.
I recognize the appeal of putting more offense into the game, but at what
expense?

If change is indeed needed to stimulate the game I feel that realignment,
expansion to three divisions per league and expansion of the playoffs to
include more teams in post-season play is more appropriate.  Caution must
be taken however.  What becomes of such things as "MLB Records"?  If teams
are realigned to not only different divisions but different leagues what
will become of such MLB staples as "National League" or "American League"
records?  If Oakland, for example, is moved to the National League West,
what becomes of American League Records?  There is talk also of expanded
inter-league play.  What will be the impact of this on MLB?

My vote is to eliminate the DH and look at expansion.

Michael at USC
Xref: sparky rec.sport.baseball:38163 soc.women:22936 soc.men:23052
From: gwangung@byron.u.washington.edu (Roger Tang)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,soc.women,soc.men
Subject: Re: Women Sports Reporters
Date: 21 Jan 1993 19:52:25 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: byron.u.washington.edu

In article <1993Jan21.122040.7804@zooid.guild.org> Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org> writes:
>snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes...
>>In article <1992Dec23.024452.24795@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> noraa@cbnewsk.cb.att.com
>>(aaron.l.hoffmeyer) writes:
>>>I assume that men reporters are also entitled to interview women
>>>athletes while they are bathing, although I've never heard of one man
>>>even attempting to do so.
>>In every sport where women participate, men and women reporters have equal
>>access to the players.
>And I repeat his question... (unless he has already done so)  Do you
>know of an actual case where a male reporter even attempting to
>interview women athletes while they were bathing?  If so, what was
>the outcome?

	This is a "HAVE YOU STOPPED BEATING YOUR SPOUSE" question.

	It's irrelevant to the issue at hand.



-- 
	"I got into theatre originally to pick up girls. Unfortunately, all I
found were women..."
e-mail:  gwangung@u.washington.edu
Organization: Freshman, CIT general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 11:53:33 -0500 
From: "Carl J. Blake" <cb4i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Cards & Ziele

Todd Ziele should not be traded.  His versatility and agility is perfect
for Cardinal philosophy and Busch Stadium(hit & run, steal bases,
average power).  If he is traded, it will just be another one of
Maxville's blunders (VanSlyke, K.Hill).  Simply put, the Cardinals will
contend for the pennant this year.  Just how much will depend on their
starting pitchers.  The lineup is fairly solid and should not be messed
with.  (Gilkey, Smith, Lankford, Jose, Ziele, Royer or Woodson,
Pagnozzi, Pena)  The Cards don't have to worry about 3B.  Spring
training will take care of any conflicts (Woodson, Royer, Wilson). 
Tewksbury, a master of control, should have another solid year.  Magrane
always seems to be on the verge of stardom.  Cormier appeared to be
coming around in the final months of the season.  The welfare of
St.Louis will depend on Olivares and Donovan.  Bullpen - brilliant! 
Overall, I'd say they'll contend with Montreal and New York (If New York
actually plays some defense this year).  Considering how weak the NL
East is, I'd put 5:2 odds on St.Louis for the pennant.
Any thoughts?

--Carl Blake
  Carnegie Mellon University
From: bspencer@cs.mcgill.ca (Brian SPENCER)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Lee Stevens to the Expos
Date: 22 Jan 93 01:06:50 GMT
Organization: SOCS - Mcgill University, Montreal, Canada

In article <1993Jan22.000627.5381@leland.Stanford.EDU> dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dave Eisen) writes:
>In article <wall-210193160323@elvis.swarthmore.edu> wall@cc.swarthmore.edu (Matthew Wall) writes:
>>My guess about the reason players might have no-trade clauses to Montreal
>>are
>>
>
>My understanding is that the reason is: 
>
>(5) Something about the tax laws works against playing for
>the Expos. I don't know if the player's income is then
>subject to bot US and Canadian taxes, or what the story
>is exactly. I've just heard this given as a reason why
>American ballplayers try to avoid playing for Canadian
>teams.
>
>Maybe somebody else can give a definitive answer on how the
>tax situation differs when a player plays on a Canadian
>team.
>
>
>-- 
>Dave Eisen                               Sequoia Peripherals: (415) 967-5644
>dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU              Home:                (415) 321-5154
>       There's something in my library to offend everybody. 
>          --- Washington Coalition Against Censorship

The problem is that there are higher tax rates in Canada. Since they
work in Canada, they must pay income taxes here. For that tax bracket,
the rates are much higher here than States-side. Unfortunately, I am not
familiar with the tax rates at this level, and probably never be in my
lifetime unless I shed a few pounds, become left-handed, and throw 90
miles an hour.

Brian Spencer
From: sweda@css.itd.umich.edu (Sean Sweda)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Whitaker vs Sandberg
Date: 25 Jan 1993 04:05:22 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan - ITD Consulting and Support
NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Ted Frank (thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu) wrote:
>In article <C19t7z.K9r@world.std.com> jle@world.std.com (Joe M Leonard) writes:
>>I do know that Whitaker came up in '76 or so and has been stringing
>>seasons back-to-back since then.  Sure, some have been rather boring,
>>but on the whole, he'd be a big plus to any team during that perion.
>>While I don't have the exact numbers, his power improved as he aged,
>>without giving up OBA...  Pretty good glove, and a LH-batter to boot.

>(Whitaker came up in 1977 and was full-time starting in 1978.)

>His OBA improved also.  His career high came in 1991, and he almost
>beat that in 1992.  Once you park-adjust and age-adjust, his career
>stats are about as good as Sandberg, but he's been considerably less
>durable.  

Actually, Lou has had only 1 real injury -- the infamous dancing incident
in the middle of the 1988 pennant race.  The fewer AB's is a direct result
of Sparky deciding (around 1986 I beleive) that Lou would be better off
not starting against LH pitching.  His strikeouts dropped tremendously
after this, so maybe Sparky made a good decision, as until very recently
Lou had fits with lefties.  As for durability, there's no doubt in my mind
that Lou could play 2b for 160 games, but he probably wouldn't be posting
as high averages (OBP, SLG) as he is now.

Definitely HOF material.  Alan Trammell too.

Sean


--
***********************************************************************
Sean Sweda					sweda@css.itd.umich.edu
GM/Owner Motor City Marauders
Internet Baseball League	 1/24/93 - Florida State 89, Duke 88 OT	
***********************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: poutsmaj@mace.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Subject: Re: Replacement value vs average
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:45:38 GMT

In article <C1GuAI.CD1@cerc.wvu.wvnet.edu> hobbs@cs.wvu.wvnet.edu (Gerald R Hobbs) writes:
>*
>*To say that one can't tell a players 'value' by comparing them to averagee
>*is like saying you can't tell how hot something is by reading the temperature
>*in fahrenheit...
>*
>*just my thoughts (scattered though they be)
>*
>*paul
>
>Paul,
>     Whether "it matters" depends on what you use the metric for. If we 
>compare players in 1992 (say) and decide that AA is +2 and BB -2 compared
>to average then of course there is no more or less information there
>than there is in deciding that AA is a 17 and BB is a 13 compared to
>replacement value. Now when you start talking about career value is does
>make a difference. A guy who plays beyond the point where his skills are
>average has negative "points" added to his career totals using the
>average value metric and positive points added to his career totals 
>using the replacement value metric (except Pete Rose who played even
>beyond the point of being at replacement value). Lots of great players
>play a couple years beyond the point where they are even average. Some
>like Joe D and Koufax don't. In career value assessments it can make
>a pretty big difference whether you use replacement or average value
>adjusted numbers.
>     Gerry
>
>

But Gerry, the _relative_ difference is the important point.  Whether you
use replacement level or average level does not matter when comparing 
players.  If I understood a previous Valentine post, he says replacement
level would have a winning percentage of .425.  In other words, placement
of the baseline is arbitrary (please correct my interpretations if they are
wrong) and there is nothing to say it can't be .425, .500 or even .600.
The relative differences remain the same...

paul
From: chee1l5@Jane.UH.EDU (sam lane)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Sandberg (was Re: Ty Griffen)
Date: 23 Jan 1993 16:26:21 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
Reply-To: chee1l5@Jane.UH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu


>In article <1993Jan22.213038.14499@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>  
>gspira@nyx.cs.du.edu (Greg Spira) writes:
>>               OBP  SLG
>> Morgan - C    .395 .427
>> Sandberg R4-2 .357 .452

Don't forget the well-known World Series Maynard-o-meter where Morgan
really creams Sandberg. However, if you factor in the Fielder-o-meter which
says that Sandberg is better because he makes more money, it may be too close
to call.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sam Lane         ~ "The US aircraft ranged from jets that can fly more than
Univ.of Houston  ~ twice the speed of light(!) to those..." Houston Chronicle
Dept.of Chem.Eng.~ Sole member of the Bob Horner fan club.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: warejd@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Ques about new teams
Date: 25 Jan 93 14:58:48 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati

What do people know about the new Colorado and Florida teams, i.e., how the
players will do statistically, where they are from, etc.?

reply by post or by E-mail.
From: itlm013@dale.ucdavis.edu (Captain Caveman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Tom Tippett and Defensive Average
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:29:36 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

In article <21832@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> ez027993@dale.ucdavis.edu (Gary Prisoner Huckabay) writes:
>Steven Jascourt writes:
>
>>Does this mean Tippett is aware of DA? The range ratings he assigned for PTP
>>the past several years have been abominable, both compared to DA and the
>>subjective judgements of astute observers, but this year's ratings look
>>pretty good. Do you (Sherri or Dr. Dave or anyone else) know how he came up
>>with range ratings in the past and what he did differently this year? 
>
>When I talked to Tom and others at PtP, I was told they just use range 
>factor for defensive ratings.  Also, I wasn't aware the '92 PtP player
>disk was out.  Any word on 5.0?
>
>Also - Player disks just don't serve any purposes for our league.  They
>come out WELL after we need them.  The DTBL staff does all the research and
>data entry, and produces the data disks within *3* days of the end of the
>season - I don't know why PtP can't do the same thing.  That's four people
>working as volunteers.  I expect a company would be able to do it easier.

Also, the STATS Handbook came out in the first week of November, I believe.
That's an entire *book* full of stats, projections, leader lists, and even
some commentary.  It seems like a disk would be easier, and faster to
produce.

>Also for the PtP 5.0 wish list - send me things you'd like to see added
>or removed from PtP 4.03 before the next release, and I'll be happy to pass
>that information along to Mr. Tippett.
>
>LIKE DEFENSE BEING VALUED LESS! 
>
>hard grounder between first and second
>Baerga dives
>he gloves it
>he gets up
>and throws to first for the out.
>
>I get tired of seeing that 8-10 times per game.

How about more intelligent situational play by fielders.  This has happened
to me twice this year: 

Bottom half of the 9th inning.  1 out.  Tie game.  Man on 3rd.  Infield in.

hard ground ball to the shortstop.
Vizquel gloves it.
He throws to first for the out.
Canseco scores from third.
*** game over ***

THAT DRIVES ME CRAZY!!!

Or how about making it harder for runners to advance.

hard grounder to the second basemen.
Roberts gloves and throws to first for the out.
Canseco advances to second on the play.

Being able to bunt for a base hit (especially with an Excellent Baserunner,
with Average or better bunting) now and again would be nice, especially
against an infield that isn't drawn in.

And that's just off the top of my head.

Dennis
dfcleary@ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: Phillies/Cards Trade Rumor
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 23:46:12 GMT

In article <105822@netnews.upenn.edu> jnimerof@gradient.cis.upenn.edu (Jeff Nimeroff) writes:
>As much as I hate rumors, a puzzling one has come across my desk by
>way of Jayson Stark (a Philly sportswriter).  The rumored trade has
>John Kruk going to the Cards straight up for Todd Zeile.  Any comments.
>I have my opinions but this is a PG rated show.  I'll just say that if
>Kruk is going anywhere it should be in a package for a pitcher.  Ricky
>Jordan could always play first, and Dave Hollins is a potential superstar
>at 3rd.  Zeile could always catch :-).

I'm trying to figure out for which team this deal is dumber.

Do the Cardinals *have* another 3bman?
They actually do have a potential 1bman -- Hector.

Where would Zeile play for the Phillies?  
His two positions so far have been c and 3b.  The Phillies are solid
there.  I guess he'd play first.  But Kruk is better than Zeile.  (Though
older.)

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | "We don't need anymore [sic] wretched refuse.  It's 
niepornt@phoenix.    |  time to send the Statue of Liberty somewhere else"
   princeton.edu     |      -- Jack "Not a bigot" Schmidling, 1/7/93
Baltimore Orioles 93 |
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Brewhas intereseted in Brunansky?
Date: 27 Jan 1993 16:51:12 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

I heard on the local news last night that Milwaukee was interested in
signing Tom Brunansky. Anyone heard any other news? I suppose it wouldn't
be the worst thing that could happen. It would allow Garner to play
Hamilton in center for Yount occasionally and sub Bruno for Vaughn when
Vaughn is slumping. Bruno tends to be a streak hitter right? Between him
and Vaughn, Milwaukee would probably have one of the best outfielders in
baseball for a two-week interval about four times next season. Of course
they'd have a rally-killing .180 hitter the rest of the season.

Any thoughts on this Valentine, anybody else?

--salty
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Change the game?
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:03:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: adobe.1993Jan26.230355.11634
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <1k4a7uINNjfi@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> akamholz@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Andrew E Kamholz) writes:
>Does anybody (who was an adult at the time) know specifically and
>thoroughly what the reasons were for instituting the DH?

I wasn't an adult, so I won't answer.

>I agree that it seems impossible to either banish the DH or standardize
>it. I think we have to look at its origins and see if the original thinking
>is still suitable for today's game.

Why?

Regardless of whether the DH has fulfilled its original goals, or of
whether those original goals make any sense in today's game, it is the case
that a substantial fraction of baseball fans like the DH.  

Personally, I don't particularly care for the DH, but I don't think it
should be either abolished or standardized. 

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: prm@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (paul.r.mount)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: All-time Mets spring training report (ATAS)
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:09:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsl.1993Jan26.170905.8542
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories


Arky Vaughn as the best Mets all time shortstop? Wilbur Coooper
as one of the best pitchers? come On!

Dude at CWRU who wrote these, you have too much free time. Isn't there homework, or studying, or classes to prepare for? (requisite :-)