HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sinhaa@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Anand Sinha)
Subject: Re: Protected Lists
Organization: Department of Computer Science, McMaster University
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:19:33 GMT

In article <Bt8JqF.79v@news.cso.uiuc.edu> hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu (Harold_Brooks) writes:
>I have a minor question about procedures for the expansion
>draft.  I'm pretty the answer is no, but I'll ask it anyway.
>
>Will the teams' protected lists be made public before
>the draft?  Obviously, the drafting teams will need to know, 
>but I think it would be fun if MLB let the rest of us in on 
>it.  Letting the lists out a day early and prohibiting player
>moves for the 24 hours leading up to the draft would be nice.
>I realize that MLB rarely listens to me when they make their
>decisions, but does anyone know if I'll get my wish to know
>the 'mind' of Dal Maxvill on the draft.
>

Sorry Harold...but does Dal Maxvill actually *have* one? :-)

Top of his list: Andres Galaragga...team player. good attitude. :-)

On another note: I read yesterday that the Marlins were warning other teams
that "expensive older players" may be taken by them, if they were not
protected.  Personally, I think this is a bluff so that some teams will
protect guys like Bonilla and Murray instead of prospects.  It would be 
interesting to see the Marlins take an old, over-paid player though.

And finally: Jays take #1 from the Brewers.  The Jays roughed up Ruffin in the
1st for 5 runs, then blew out Henry in the 9th for 6 more, in a 12-1 rout.  
Today Linton takes the hill against Bosio.  Tough game tonight.  But blowing
out Henry has to help the Jays if its close, and the Brewers have to go to 
the pen/closer.  

Anand Sinha
Blue Jays #1 -> all the way in '92
Roberto Alomar for MVP
Juan Guzman ...forget about the Cy stuff...just come back soon!!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dave Eisen)
Subject: Re: Last-place Cy Young
Organization: Sequoia Peripherals, Inc.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 00:17:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.174207.16074@sco.COM> erics@sco.COM (eric smith) writes:
>
>>Steve Carlton for the Phillies, 1972.  Carlton had a record of 27-10.  He won
>>about half the games for the Phils that season.
>
>One is tempted to say that Carlton would have won 30 with any other team,
>but on the other hand I heard that the Phillies *were* a different team
>when Carlton pitched that year.

It's true. If I remember correctly, Carlton got about a full run
of run support more than any of the other Phillies pitchers that 
season. Of course, Lefty always *was* a good hitter himself...



-- 
Dave Eisen    dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU   Sequoia Peripherals: (415) 967-5644
          	Some of my best friends are men.
        --- Lisa Nee in "American Women Deserve a Tax Break."
From: IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ryan Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL SCORING QUESTION
Date: 16 Aug 92 00:09:23 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System

Whoops!

Yup, I goofed on the official scoring question - and big time.
First, Fielder's home run made it 3-1 Detroit wins, not 2-1.

Under Rule 10.18g, the casebook rules specifically address typical
situations that may arise when a pitcher is replaced by another
during an inning, with runners already on base. The original
pitcher is, in fact, responsible for the number of runners he
leaves on base (as opposed to the individual runners themselves).
The exception to this rule, however, is that the original pitcher
is no longer responsible for base runners who are retired without
direct action on behalf of the batter: attempted steal, pick-off,
interference, plus attempted advance on a fly ball. Bottom line: If
the batter-runner didn't reach first, then any of the runners who
are out on the play are no longer the worry of the original
pitcher; one less runner to worry about to hurt the runs allowed
column and ERA.

There is an exception to this rule. For example, if the original
pitcher were to walk the first batter of the inning, and is then
replaced by a reliever, and the reliever gives up a single, and the
runner from first is thrown out at third, while the batter-runner
takes second on the throw, then the runner now at second is the
responsibility of the reliever.


+===============================================================+
||   RYAN ROBBINS                    INTERNET:                 ||
||   UNIVERSITY OF MAINE             IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU   ||
+===============================================================+
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Baltimore Lineup (Was Re: Wells/Gaston)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 22:17:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.214605.22664@news2.cis.umn.edu> kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu (Dave Nobody Kirsch) writes:

>  Maybe Nelson Lu or Steve Stein or someone could run the lineup optimization
>program on the current O's lineup and suggest where everyone *ought* to be? 
>I suspect that would help us to find some of the disparity betweent the O's
>gaudy OBP/SLG numbers and their relatively low numbers of runs scored. 

This is what I got: (it's Steve Stein's program, in case someone's wondering)

Milligan 1B
Orsulak RF
Hoiles C
G. Davis DH
Anderson LF
Gomez 3B
Devereaux CF
B. Ripken 2B
C. Ripken SS

(Stats up to Aug. 10...  I haven't been able to get this week's Weekly yet)

This lineup should ideally score 6.03 runs a game.  The Orioles actually score
4.68 runs a game.  Mindboggling numbers.  (Of course, I really should include
SF, SH, and GDP numbers if I have them, but I don't.  They might cut a quarter
to half a run a game maximum, though.)

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: "russell tisseman" <russell.tisseman@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: simulation games
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:19:19 EST
Reply-To: "russell tisseman" <russell.tisseman@canrem.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

BR=>     Do they make a Mac version of PTP?  Do you have any idea where I'd find
  =>it (or, for that matter, where I'd find the PC version)?  Thanks for the
  =>help...

There have been a few inquiries concerning PTP PC baseball. There is 
no Mac version, only IBM.

Hardware requirements: at least 512K RAM, either HD or 720K floppy.

Other products from PTP are : Big League Basketball - $64.95
                              College Basketball    - $74.95
                              Big League Football   - $74.95
                              Baseball Version 4.0  - $74.95

The mailing address is : PURSUE THE PENNANT
                         P.O. BOX 19703
                         GREENSBORO, NC
                         27419-9703

Phone oders (VISA/MC)  : 1-800-765-4787

I hope this answers any questions you may have, if not feel free to ask

russell.tisseman@canrem.com

               Russel
---
  1st 1.00 #279  Who is on 1st.  What is on 2nd.  I Don't Know is on 3rd.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: maj1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Mark A. Jamison)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Dream Team
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:07:13 GMT
Organization: Mississippi State University

In article <16boikINNg1o@malibog.hal.COM> rc@hal.COM (Rolland Crunk) writes:
>First of all don't get me wrong, I think Roger Clemens is an excellent
>pitcher. That is exactly why I use him to compare with David Cone. 
>I feel DC is now (this year) beginning to show what he is capable of
>doing. You can't ignore his 194 strikeouts (8/2/92) (yeah I know
>he gets to pitch against pitcher where RC doesn't). If one goes 
>strictly by ERA then there are pitchers that are ahead of him (and
>RC for that matter). Same goes for wins (gotta have an offense behind
>you to win).
>
>I'm not alone in holding this opinion.  One of the magazines (Sports or 
>Inside Sports, don't remember) polled players on several issues (last spring),
>one was "who is the best pitcher in the major leagues?". Yep RC was way out 
>in front (43% or something like that), but guess who was second? DC was (9% 
>if I remember correctly).
>
>Granted I'm not a professional baseball player, but IMHO, I place
>David Cone first and Roger Clemens second (considering only starters). 

Umm Rolland, you haven't answered Sherri's question.. Why do you
think DC is better than RC.. When you take statistics, and adjust
them for the park they pitch in, I would wager that cone wouldn't
be in the topo ten.. The only thing Cone is exceptional is
strikeouts, and that has to be the most overated pitching statistic
ever, with the possiblle exception of wins..

Any person who would take David Cone over Roger Clemens, Steve Avery,
or Tom Glavine, is just a raving Mets fan (tm).. Why because they are all better
than him, and in the case of Glavine and Avery, considerably younger..

How are they better??

Glavine and Avery both have ERA's below the 3.0 level and they play
in a park that makes a good pitcher look very mediocre..  Clemens
is once again in the race for the ERA title and he pitches in
Boston, that's truly amazing!! What does cone have going for him??
he's a good strikeout pitcher, which for the Mets sake is a
good thing, and that is all..
Cone plays in a neutral park, so his ERA iis not effected by his park..

Look, Cone is a good starter, and a Godsend for the Mets, but
he is not the number one pitcher in baseball, it is unlikely
that he is even in the top ten..


--
		-Beren Son of Barahir

______________________________________________________________________________
                       Still looking for Luthien
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: RE: 1986 World Series: Mets Fan Speaks Out
From: Jeff Pierce <JPIERCE@MIAMIU.BITNET>
Date: Thursday, 13 Aug 1992 00:38:22 EDT
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service

<all previous comments deliberately left out>
 
 
Let's assume that Buckner made the play and the winning run didn't
score.  What happens next (I normally hate what if questions, but so
many Red Sox fans appear to blame that one play for the Mets winning
the series).  Anyone care to write the next inning?
 
                                              Jeff
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: brian@meaddata.com (Brian Curran)
Subject: Re: Clemens & Cooney
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:39:56 GMT

In article <23675@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brian Kiviat) writes:
|> In rec.sport.baseball, spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira) writes:
|> >
|> >According to the lip reader the Players Association hired to defend Clemens,
|> >I don't believe Clemens cursed out the umpire until AFTER Clemens had been
|> 
|> Does anybody know what Clemens said to Cooney, or at least a good idea
|> what he said?  I've always wanted to know.

According to A's third base coach Rene Lachemann (and Clemens does NOT dispute
this), before being ejected, Clemens said:  "I'm not talking to you.  Keep
your [expletive] mask on and get your ass back behind the plate."  
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Curran                 Mead Data Central              brian@meaddata.com 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bobby Bragan, Milwaukee Braves manager, on catcher Joe Torre:
 "I can't understand why he hasn't been nicknamed Chicken.  Don't you get it?
   Chicken Catcher Torre!"
From: jtchern@ocf.berkeley.edu (Joseph Hernandez)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: MLB Magic Numbers for Fri, Aug 14th, 1992
Date: 14 Aug 1992 05:26:39 GMT
Organization: Joseph TeleCommunications Enterprises; Berkeley, California, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: monsoon.berkeley.edu
Via: JTC Enterprises Major League Baseball Department (Statistics Division)
     JTC Enterprises Sports Sector (Information Department)

        MAGIC NUMBERS OF DIVISION LEADERS FOR FRIDAY, AUGUST 14, 1992

          [NOTE: Includes all of yesterday's games; i-idle yesterday
                   z-won yesterday or split a doubleheader.]

NATIONAL WEST		 MN	        	NATIONAL EAST		 MN
Atlanta	Braves		z--		        Pittsburgh Pirates	i--
Cincinnati Reds		 48		        Montreal Expos		i46
San Diego Padres	 43		        Chicago Cubs		 39
San Francisco Giants	i34		        St. Louis Cardinals     i38
Houston Astros		z31		        New York Mets           i37
Los Angeles Dodgers	z30		        Philadelphia Phillies	i31

AMERICAN WEST		 MN 		        AMERICAN EAST		 MN
Oakland Athletics	z--		        Toronto Blue Jays	z--
Minnesota Twins		 44		        Baltimore Orioles	 46
Chicago White Sox	i39		        Milwaukee Brewers	i43
Texas Rangers		z34		        Boston Red Sox          z35
Kansas City Royals      i30		        Detroit Tigers          i34
California Angels        29		        New York Yankees        i34
Seattle Mariners	i22		        Cleveland Indians        33
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Joseph TeleCommunications Enterprises World Headquarters
*****  *****  *****  jtchern@ocf.Berkeley.EDU          jtcent@soda.Berkeley.EDU
    *    *    *      jhernand@nyx.cs.DU.EDU                    josephhz@IDS.NET
    *    *    *      cb085@cleveland.Freenet.EDU      jph@m-net.ann-arbor.MI.US
*****    *    *****  University of California, Berkeley, California, USA  94720
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Edward_Lunny@mindlink.bc.ca (Edward Lunny)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Left-handers
Date: 22 Aug 92 02:01:25 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

My 20 year old son (right handed pitcher) and I are having  a debate about some
things we have seen lately in the baseball world. For the last 3 weekends we
have been watching the 12 year old championships and the 15 year old  finals in
our local area. I have never seen so many left handed pitchers in in my life.
Is this trend across the board? My son says even right handed hitters still
have trouble hitting left handers because they don't see enough of them.
If what I have seen lately is true, they will catch up soon. I would be
interested in any comments.
From: twhite@mozart.amd.com (Tom White)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Last-place Cy Young
Date: 17 Aug 92 23:41:39 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <1137.2a8ba9c3@atlas.nafb.trw.com> dsimon@atlas.nafb.trw.com writes:
>I'm rooting for Boston to end up in last place and Clemens to win
>the Cy Young Award.  Of course, in his acceptance speech, Clemens 
>would defer all of the credit to his team mates.

   Last place?  yeek. 

>
>Has the Cy Young Award ever been awarded to a pitcher on a last place team?

   Someone else asked about the CYA going to a pitcher on a losing team.
I've found these:

American League
1972  Gaylord Perry, 24-16, 1.92  Cleveland Indians, 72-84*, 5th
1987  Roger Clemens, 20-9, 2.97   Boston Red Sox, 78-84, 5th

National League
1970  Bob Gibson, 23-7, 3.12      St. Louis Cardinals, 76-86, 4th
1972  Steve Carlton, 27-10, 1.98  Philadelphia Phillies, 59-97, 6th (dead last)
1976  Randy Jones, 22-14, 2.74    San Diego Padres, 73-89, 5th
1979  Bruce Sutter, 6-6, 2.23, 37sv  Chicago Cubs, 80-82, 5th
1987  Steve Bedrosian, 5-3, 2.83, 40sv  Philadelphia Phillies, 80-82, 4th

*accurate W-L, remember the strike?

So only Carlton has won the Cy Young Award with a last-place team.



--
 Thomas White          | Happy |  
 Austin, Texas         | Happy |  When you say words a lot 
 (with the ankle cast) |  Joy  |  they don't mean anything. 
 twhite@mozart.amd.com |  Joy! |                -- Del
From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Dream Team
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:30:30 GMT
Organization: Boo!

In <16fn80INNj8h@malibog.hal.COM> rc@hal.COM (Rolland Crunk) writes:

>Ok, so Shea seems to be a better stadium for strikeouts. The batters
>visibility seems to be the most plausible reason for this. Though
>there were other reasons cited that I really don't completely
>understand (maybe someone can educate me): how does the area 
>between the foul lines and out of play have anything to do
>with strikeouts? Isn't the area that a ball is fair (except for
>the distance to the fence) the same?

Well, this argument is being used because if there's less room to catch
foul balls in a stadium, a pitcher will have more of a chance to record a
strikeout instead of getting the batter to foul out.

Think back to Roger Clemens' 20 K game.  A batter hit a foul pop to Don
Baylor, who dropped it.  Clemens proceeded to strike out that batter.
If, instead of being dropped, it landed in the first row of seats, the
stadium, and not Baylor, would have been responsible for giving Clemens
the chance to record the extra K.

Is this a major or real effect, though?  I doubt it.  I'm sure its there,
but the effect is probably so small that it gets lost in the noise.

The Oakland Coliseum, the park with the biggest amount of foul territory
in existence, is in fact the 3rd best strikeout park around (in terms of
increasing strikeouts).  If the foul territory issue really was significant
to the park effect on strikeouts, I doubt this would be true.

Greg 
-- 
  spira@panix.com       "The one-O delivery to Fisk.  He swings.  Long drive,  
 cmcl2!panix!spira      left field!  If it stays fair, it's gone!  Home Run!"  
158-17 Riverside Dr.                     Ned Martin, 10/22/75   
Whitestone NY 11357          (Insert your favorite baseball moment here)
From: kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brian Kiviat)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Dream Team(now, Clemens& Cooney)
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:54:25 GMT
Reply-To: kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brian Kiviat)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.sport.baseball, spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira) writes:
>
>According to the lip reader the Players Association hired to defend Clemens,
>I don't believe Clemens cursed out the umpire until AFTER Clemens had been

Does anybody know what Clemens said to Cooney, or at least a good idea
what he said?  I've always wanted to know.

   O
   I\   Brian Kiviat (301)227-1833       Sometimes the truth is hidden,
   I \  kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil         Like a shadow in the darkness.
  /     David Taylor Model Basin                  -Master Po
   \___________________________
			     \\
From: msw10@nepenthe.as (Michael S. Wong)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Three questions about Shreveport
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:27:00 GMT
Reply-To: msw10@nepenthe.as
Organization: Sun Microsystems


In article 2077@engage.pko.dec.com, kuras@aiag.enet.dec.com () writes:
>
>Jim, I tried to send mail, but was unable to.  Hope you don't mind my posting
>this here.
>
>Subject: Re: Three questions about Shreveport
>
>I don't follow the Shreveport Captains, being a resident of Massachusetts
>and the Captains making their home in Louisana (question #1), but I have 
>some info on them. They are affiliated with the San Francisco (Tampa Bay in 
>'93?) Giants, and play in the Texas League (question #2?).
>
>Currently, Shreveport is in 1st place in the Eastern Division, with a 42-25
>record.   Tulsa (Texas Rangers) trail them by 5.5 games in the standings.
>
>Pete Weber is 4th in the Texas League with a .322 batting average.  Kevin
>Rogers is 2nd in the league in pitching, with an 8-3 won-loss record and  2.24
>earned run average.  Rick Huisman is 9th in the league, with a 4-4 record and
>2.92 era.
>

RHP Rick Huisman has been promoted to AAA-Phoenix. He was 9-4 with a 2.35 ERA at the
time.
1B Adell Davenport is among the league leaders in HRs (16 last I looked) and was
the All-Star game's MVP.
RHP Saloman Torres leads the league in strikeouts and lost the All-Star Game.

>All of this info comes from Baseball America, a weekly newspaper which focuses
>on minor leagues & college baseball.  ...what were your other 3 questions?
>
>Joe.

Michael Wong.
msw10@ras.amdahl.com
From: ce10+@andrew.cmu.edu (Christopher M. Ericksen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Bucs questions
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:31:05 GMT
Organization: Sophomore, IM - H&SS Track, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

A few questions for the Pirates fans on the net:

1. Is Paul Wagner a legitimate prospect, worthy of protection in the
expansion draft? 

2. Where is Keith Richardson, the team's 1988 2nd round pick? He seems
to have fallen off the face of the earth (or maybe just onto the DL?).

3. Has 1992 draft pick 2.B., OF Trey Beamon, been signed? If not, where
is he going to go to school?

4. Exactly what position is Carlos Garcia playing at Buffalo? (I've
heard every inf pos. but 1st).

5. Is the team still negotiating with Doug Drabek, or are they waiting
until after the season?

Thanks in advance.

Chris Ericksen
ce10@andrew.cmu.edu
From: str@maredsous.Eng.Sun.COM (Todd Rader)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Base-ball Dream Team
Date: 12 Aug 1992 23:18:19 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: str@maredsous.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: maredsous

In article 169medINNdol@malibog.hal.COM, rc@hal.COM (Rolland Crunk) writes:
%In article <l8gmm4INN51q@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> str@maredsous.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
%>In article 1656g0INN9nn@malibog.hal.COM, rc@hal.COM (Rolland Crunk) writes:
%>%
%>%Not a bad team. If there was a baseball dream team this year, I would 
%>%pick the following lineup:
%>%
%>%LF	Ken Griffey jr.
%>%CF	Kirby Puckett
%>%RF	Andy Van Slyke	
%>
%>Three CF's for the outfield!  And this isn't even terribly insane, except
%>for the designation of Kirby as the CF -- why do that when you have Junior
%>and AVS?  Each (IMO) are preferable to Kirby as a CF.
%
%Three outfielders. Arrange them in whatever order you like.
%BTW, why are KGjr and AVS preferable to KP as a CF? 

I think you missed my point.  CF's are generally inferior offensively to
LF's and RF's.  That three are among the best offensively in the majors
this year is remarkable.

As for your second question, I would reverse it and ask you.  Do you really
consider Kirby Puckett to be a better defensive centerfielder than KGjr
or AVS?  Puckett simply doesn't put people out like these two.

-todd

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dave@silver.sni.ca (Dave Till)
Subject: Re: RC/27 for 2Bs
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf, Sietec Open Systems, Toronto, Canada
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:06:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.224039.13515@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>AMERICAN LEAGUE
>Roberto Alomar, Toronto		8.00	; but no, he is not American :-)

Isn't he from Puerto Rico, and isn't Puerto Rico an American possession?
I thought Puerto Ricans *were* Americans.  Am I wrong?  Has this changed?
-- 
--Dave Till, SNI, Sietec Open Systems Division (dave@snitor.uucp or "Hey, you")
"My Canada Includes The World Series" -- banner seen at SkyDome
Blue Jays all the way in '92!   (Allons-y Expos!)
From: alchemy@cs1.bradley.edu (Mike Swiston)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Wrigley Field Quewstion
Date: 19 Aug 92 01:03:41 GMT
Organization: salt of the earth in open wounds.

spiegel@sgi417.msd.lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Spiegel) writes:

% 	I potentially will be near Chicago in the next few weeks and
% 	would like to take in a Cubs game.  I have been told there
% 	is little or no parking at Wrigley.  You have to take
% 	mass transit or find a spot on the street.  Is this true?

There is little or no FREE parking at Wrigley.  There
are hordes of little, private lots that generally cost
$10-$20, depending on how close you get.
If you don't mind walking, then you can pretty easily
park for free.  And if you'll be entering the city from
Lake Shore Drive, take the Irving Park exit - less traffic.

alchemy@cs1.bradley.edu                   "Where have all the good frogs gone?"