HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bartlett@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM (Terry Bartlett)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Rob Bernardo
Date: 13 Aug 92 23:24:34 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.

I'm sorry to report that Rob passed away about an hour ago.  I think
many of us knew that he'd been ill for a few weeks.

Rob has been a significant contributor to motss over the years, and
it saddens me a great deal that we'll no longer have him here with us.
I shall miss him.

Details on services will be forthcoming, but I already know that the
family plan to have services for him in New York.  His friends in 
California are also planning services there.


Terry Bartlett			   bartlett@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM
Sun Microsystems		   "You've got to stand for something,
Rocky Mountain Technology Center    or you'll fall for anything..."
Colorado Springs, CO 80918         
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: Introduction
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 18:18:48 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton):
>>I am the future.  The future of men, the future of African-Americans, the  
>>future of homosexuality.  You have the choice between reaching out to me or  
>>ignoring me.  Either way, I'll survive ... you can believe that.
> 
> I'd prefer to think that people like John Dorrance and Elf Sternberg are
> the wave of the future. 

i find it absolutely incredible that you bothered to respond at all,
and i find your respond utterly tasteless, like an whiny Arne ``i'm
being funny -- why can't you understand my ghettoized West Hollywood
larger-than-life-but-completely-meaningless'' posting.  i'm left to
wonder what trash you actually killed so that *this* article would
grace the net.  it's certainly an exercise in futility and stupidity
that i wouldn't expect from you.

lovegod's postings are hallmark puke-meters in the sense that they
confuse personal sentiment with universal metaphors like Hallmark
cards.  it's meaningless to say that lovegod is the ``future of men,
the future of African-Americans, the future of homosexuality.''
no one is the future of anything; they are the present of themselves,
and since they don't represent any generality today, they certainly
won't acquire that status in the future.

what i find disgusting and moronic in your response is that you make
the same mistake, presenting John Dorrance and Elf Sternberg as the
future.  it dismisses lovegod completely, erasing him and his
experiences, and it ignores any kind of diversity.  i'm happy that i'm
not John Dorrance and Elf Sternberg, and i'm quite certain they feel
the same.
-- 
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
Queer Without A Cause!
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
From: bartlett@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM (Terry Bartlett)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: mandatory service (was Re: Metzenbaum introduces Senate bill to end military ban)
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:55:59 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Rocky Mountain Technology Center, Colo Spgs

In article <1992Aug13.042650.7512@news.ysu.edu> ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller) writes:
>
>If a draft occurs, in any form, everyone gets hurt.  
>Instead of drafting anyone, let's keep things as they are, an all-volanteer
>service.  In this way, we can assure that these things never happen.
>
This is a nice distinction to make.  If we have a draft, everyone gets
hurt.  Are you saying that no one gets hurt if we have an all volunteer
military?  Wrong.  What you have is an unfair system--those who have 
other options and don't have to choose military service, and those who
have fewer options for whom the military is their best way in our society.

If we really need to have a military, and our society places value on the
service, then everyone should have to do it.  Not just the poor and the
minorities, but the middle class and the wealthy, men and women, and you
and me.
>*                  ae642@yfn.ysu.edu // Jesus Christ, from the cross     *
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: mandatory service (was Re: Metzenbaum introduces Senate bill to end military ban)
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:23:16 GMT
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

(I admit I used the word "slavery" imprecisely for emotional effect.)

In article <1360@dosbears> drp@dosbears.uucp writes:
>>are you and Jojo volunteering to serve first?
>No, we're both, safely, too old. Are you registered with
>selective service, dear?

Yes, I am. I have to be. It's not just that it is required by law to
be registered - there are lots and lots of men the proper age who have
never registered. They will never be prosecuted. (last I heard there
were something like 15 cases of people being taken to court for not
registering - all of them had chosen to make a media issue of their
disobeyance of the law).

But there's an economic reason to register: it's required for federal
financial aid. I know it is required for a Pell grant, and I'm pretty
sure it is required for any financial aid program that is supported by
federal funds (like, say, almost all college aid programs). I had a
simple choice - if I want to go to college, I register.

This all became frighteningly real in our war on Iraq 18 months ago
(yes, that long ago.) We had a draft counselor come to our school and
explain what a draft would mean if it happened. It turned out to be a
unnecessary bit of education (practically), but very good for the soul.

This was also the time I first vocally announced my homosexuality in a
group of people. During question and answer session I stood up and
said "I'm gay, and I want to make sure I am not drafted. How do I make
sure the military understands I am unfit for service according to
their rules?" I did not receive a simple answer.

I'm sure all of this sounds amusing to you folks, especially those of
you who grew up after the Vietnam draft. I can't possibly communicate
the raw fear I feel in the thought that I could be forced to kill for
a set of ideals I do not believe in.
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/        It's a sky blue sky, the satellites are out tonight
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus)
Subject: Gay names
Organization: Open Software Foundation Research Institute, Grenoble
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 12:29:57 GMT

pieter@cs.caltech.edu (Pieter Hazewindus) writes:
>For guys, there are many names that are considered effeminate or gay:
>Byron, Miles, Guy, Percy, Bruce, Cyril, Neville, Maxwell, Christopher,
>Leslie, Gene, Dana, Marion, Hillary, Francis, Cecil, Clarence, Wendell,
>and any diminutive name (Stevie, Bobby) are a dead giveaway.  If this
>were only true, wouldn't it make life a lot simpler?

Sim Aberson has already pointed out that in the Real Gay World, Mark
(or Marc) seems to be disproportionately common, and I can confirm
that this phenomenon exists here on the right-hand side of the
Atlantic as well.  I also feel compelled (for reasons known only to
Frederic Maffray) to add Alex to the list.  Oh yes, Alex.

Of course, if a higher proportion of Marks or Alexes (Alices?) are gay
than in the population as a whole, it follows that any particular Mark
or Alex you meet is more likely to be gay than, for instance, a George
or a Dan.  Knowing this is potentially as useful as skill as that of
identifying the age of Frenchmen from their names, which certain
Minitel cruising addicts of my acquaintance have mastered to
perfection.

Incidentally my three biggest crushes in secondary school all had
names in the list above -- indeed, two of them were Christophers.
Unfortunately I've no reason to suppose, even with the rose-rimmed
regard of ripe retrospection, that any of them were gay.

,
Eamonn
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: Freedom (was Re: Gay Homophobia)
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 17:59:56 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!):
> Mom, can I marry him? For a while?

an unanticipated meaning to freedom -- i'm unhappily single... :-)
gads, can you imagine the movie?  _single white [gay] male_
-- 
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
Queer Without A Cause!
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: wearing symbols
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Distribution: world,local
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 14:09:50 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.143953.7693@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

>There was a time when we used earrings as a visible
>manifestation of either being a gay man or supporting gay rights.
>That doesn't apply today because everyone is doing it.

And even after every fourteen-year-old got his left ear pierced, there
was still the good old left-right dichotomy.  Heh.  Ironic: the reason
I got my right ear pierced, when I still thought of myself as
straight, was because I thought it was ridiculously homophobic for
people to classify others' sexuality on the basis of the earrings they
wore.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "I don't know how much support NAMBLA
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  has in the gay community."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Clayton Cramer, August 1992
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Prediction of the Republican National Convention
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 22:27:38 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Aug17.001659.14197@plts.uucp>      
  <1992Aug17.152323.21202@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>    
  <1992Aug18.033834.1387@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> <64206@cup.portal.com>  
  <jkfyn=#@rpi.edu> <64287@cup.portal.com> <joelp.714312146@cs.man.ac.uk>

0XwJoel Parthemore writes:
>I get really sick at the Democrats being roundly portrayed as the
>tax-and-spend party.

And even if it *WERE* true, I'd prefer that to the Republicans,
who seem to believe the credit card bill never comes.
 
() Missionaries: Making the world safe for hypocrisy.
()      -- Thomas Wolfe
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: stgprao@xing.unocal.com (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Prediction of the Republican National Convention
Originator: stgprao@xing
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:27:13 GMT

The LA Times said there will be an HIV+ person speaking at the Republican
Convention- Ms. Fisher from a wealthy Detroit family.
I believe the intention was to show there is some compassion in the Republican
party too, even though Mr. Reagan didn't use the A-word or G-word until near
the end of his presidency.
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: redefining masculinity
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:21:36 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
 >As part of my continuing effort to degrade the 
 >quality of soc.motss, I've decided to respond to 
 >mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) (welcome back, Mara!), 
Thanks, Arne, it's nice to _be_ back.

 >Ooooh!  Balkan singing!  There aren't many motos I'd
 >say this to, Mara, but you can glottal stop in my ear 
 >any time you'd like.
Heh heh heh heh heh.  



-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris)
Subject: International Male (was Re: wearing symbols)
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:04:25 GMT

rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

>nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>>>>I just noticed tonight that International Male is selling Freedom Rings
>>>>in their catalog.  
>>>	That's all we need - more co-opting of symbols of gay pride, etc.
>>>as *fashion statements* and *fashion accessories*...

>>Yeah, but the only people who get International Male are queer. So if
>>they're being co-opted, at least it stays in the family.

I once realized a friend was queer when I noticed he had *BACK-ISSUES*
of IM (not to mention Undergear "Soft porn for the closeted").


>	Oh... so which is it then - 1) thir market research is clueless
>and they don't say they are marketing "symbols of gay pride", 2) we're
>so incredibly fashionble that they just *assume* their going with some new
>fashion trend not knowing any other meaning, or 3) they don't have the
>guts to learn and/or otherwise use the "g" and "l"
>words explicitly.

3, I suspect.  Apparently, they're afraid they'll lose a few fringe strayts
who *wish* they were fashionable.

>	I don't know which is harder - training them to be more aware
>of recognizing our support or training us to notice that they only care
>about our $$$.  Granted that is the norm for business, but that doesn't mean
>we have to be economic lemmings.

>BBC

-jeff
From: randyc@autodesk.com (Randy Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: mandatory service (was Re: Metzenbaum introduces Senate bill to end military ban)
Date: 14 Aug 92 01:26:00 GMT
Organization: Autodesk, Inc., Sausalito, CA


In article <1992Aug12.192316.14464@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu
(Nelson Minar) writes:
>
>In article <1360@dosbears> drp@dosbears.uucp writes:
>>>are you and Jojo volunteering to serve first?
>>No, we're both, safely, too old. Are you registered with
>>selective service, dear?
>
>Yes, I am. I have to be. It's not just that it is required by law to
>be registered - [...]
>But there's an economic reason to register: it's required for federal
>financial aid.

	Along with signing some sort of fascistic contract
	to refrain from drugs *and* report people you suspect
	of using them, as I recall.

	Our government's steps toward a police state have
	been so gradual that many, many people haven't
	even noticed them.
>
>This was also the time I first vocally announced my homosexuality in a
>group of people. During question and answer session I stood up and
>said "I'm gay, and I want to make sure I am not drafted. How do I make
>sure the military understands I am unfit for service according to
>their rules?" I did not receive a simple answer.

	This is an unoriginal thought, but with Pete Williams
	as Pentagon spokesthang, how simple can the issue be?
>
>I'm sure all of this sounds amusing to you folks, especially those of
>you who grew up after the Vietnam draft. I can't possibly communicate
>the raw fear I feel in the thought that I could be forced to kill for
>a set of ideals I do not believe in.

	I grew up during the Viet Nam draft, and for me
	you don't need to communicate this at all.  That fear
	-- and anger/indignation -- is still a major contribution
	to who I am today.

	And thank you, Nelson, for putting it as you did.
	For me as well, the thought that I might be hurt was
	scary, sure, but as nothing compared to the thought I
	might be coerced to do harm, myself.

	-R (Who is harboring some particularly nasty political
	   fantasies, such as Why don't gay republicans volunteer
	   for four years in jail in token of their support for
	   our Administration's foreign policy?)


--
There is a sad gaiety in our love, and though we have more wit
than Sunday lovers by the water's edge, our wit attracts misfortune.
							-- Genet
Randy Clark			{}!autodesk.com!randyc
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Gay and Lesbian BBS List - August 1992 (REPOST)
Keywords: gay lesbian bi bisexual bbs list alternative lifestyle
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:10:09 GMT

Gosh, this was crossposted to soc.bi.  I can't imagine why -- the
compiler has given me every indication that he's not interested in
serving bisexuals.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Bisexual just means you pay for it."
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Rock Hudson
From: carlton@husc10.harvard.edu (david carlton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: musical finale
Date: 23 Aug 92 04:00:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc10.CARLTON.92Aug22210029
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Citizens for Boysenberry Jam
In-reply-to: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu's message of Sun, 23 Aug 1992 00:21:50 GMT

the musical offering.

of course, i'd rather hear it alive, something i still haven't managed
to do - don't suppose there are enough boston-area motssers out there
who'd be interested in doing it?

david carlton
carlton@husc.harvard.edu

       Either CONFESS now or we go to ``PEOPLE'S COURT''!!
From: tdbear@tandon.com (Tom Barrett)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Credit Union Memberships for Domestic Partners?
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:55:36 GMT
Organization: Tandon Corporation, Moorpark, CA

In article <1992Aug19.005813.7761@agora.uucp> doretta@agora.uucp (Doretta Schrock) writes:
>All I'm looking for
>is things I can say to them in support of the idea that they *should* include
>domestic partners.

You (we) should never have to defend our right to have
domestic partners be recognized... the slant here is to
*always* assume and insist that they are just like any other
"marriage".  This really should be the slant of your letter.
You should asked (kindly) that the BODs respond in kind (ie. a
letter)... THEN and only then if they refuse your request, get
some local gay/lesbian businesses, resource groups, churches,
etc. behind you and readdress the issue by enclosing responses
from these folks behind another letter from you.  If that
doesn't work, maybe you can contact the gay/lesbian credit
union in dallas (they advertise their low-interest visa in the
advocate... sorry address/phone/name isn't handy) and ask them
for advice on how to handle the situation.

Good Luck!

-- 
Tom Barrett (TDBear)    tdbear@tandon.com                 voice 805-378-6207
Tandon Corporation      tdbear@p6.f1006.n102.z1.fidonet.org fax 805-529-8895
Sr. HW Design Engineer  "War is Peace, No is Yes, And We're All Free!" 
[The views expressed herein may not be shared by the organization of origin]
From: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Jay and Arsenio on gay issues
Date: 22 Aug 1992 03:58:08 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug19.182958.19984@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.DLH@forsythe.stanford.edu (David Hatt - 5-0083) writes:
->because of the things she's done against gays and lesbian..."  Jay
->ignored Ian's comment completely.  Here this man was knighted, he
->came out gay across the world, he made no bones about it and Leno
->just ignored it.

Hmm ....

I'll get flamed for this ... I know it.

What's the big deal? I mean, would you have preferred that he devote the
rest of the interview to Sir Ian being queer?

I mean, the guy's an entertainer.  He's there as an entertainer.  He's also
gay, but how big of an issue is that, on the Tonight show? Apparently not
really ... 

I don't know ... I *personally* think that being queer is not a big thing.
Part of what a person is, but not the only thing that defines that person.
The Tonight Show concentrates on the part of the person that is an
entertainer ... not other things ... 

I personally think that being queer doesn't make me different from my
straight friends. ... not a lot, anyway ... I don't make a big deal out of
it, I don't try to see how I'm different from them.  I don't flaunt it.

Now, this could very well have something to do with the fact that 
A) I'm very new to this (like 2.5 months ...)
B) I Haven't yet been personally exposed to homophobic people
C) I've had the luck and fortune to be sorrounded by great people, most
   of which were straight, and most of which completely accepted me with   
   no hesitation (Hey! My parents don't count! :) )

*shrug*

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roy S. Rapoport					rsr@ocf.berkeley.edu
Disclaimer:  "It wasn't me!! Must have been a fake posting or something!! I
              would NEVER say something like that!!" 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Why Benson Hedges #2 gay cigarette?
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 02:32:18 GMT


In article <1992Aug15.004804.21140@wam.umd.edu>
jns@wam.umd.edu (J.  N.  Shaumeyer) writes:

>Do you suppose that I have a genetic predisposition
>for the non-filtered Camels that I smoke?

>I can't wait to hear how your [I-can-tell-by-the-way-
>they-smoke] friend would diagnose my condition.

I thought it was -by-what-they-smoke, but I'm interested
in the answer, since that's my brand as well.

I used to smoke Home Runs or Gauloise (both unfiltered,
short, strong).  Now (for the past 25 years or so), it's
Camel straights (unfiltered, short, strong).

Fuckin'-A, right?

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Survey
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:37:01 GMT

70253.2621@CompuServe.COM (Chris & Susan Colvin) writes:

>When you die, where will you go?  (in the ground is not a valid answer)

Hopefully to wherever Rob Bernardo is.  I miss him!

--
Jim Wood [jwood@siemens.siemens.com] (609) 734-3643
"Rise up on the wings of eagles, and two step among the stars.
 You are not forgotten.  Your smile will echo forever."
   -- Ryerson Schwark, to my friend Rob Bernardo.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: FAXing queer body parts [Re: Palm reading study -
From: moselecw@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (C.W. Moseley)
Date: 15 Aug 92 18:08:28 +1200
Distribution: world
Organization: Electrical Engineering, University of Canterbury, New Zealand

In article <HOPKINS.92Aug15001000@delta9.turing.ac.uk>, hopkins@turing.ac.uk (Don Hopkins) writes:
> whitt@gw.wmich.edu writes:
> 
>    [...] What I've been doing instead is having a random sampling of
>    people make photocopies of their palms and the backs of their
>    hands, one palm or handback to a page. [...]
> 
>    The address to send them to is:
> 
>    c/o Ingrid Willett
>    1469 Concord 3A
>    Kalamazoo, MI  49009
> 
> Do you have a FAX number?  Interested in any other body parts?
> Should I shave first?

shave your HANDS? what have you been doing?

(does this mean all the nastly things my mummy told me are TRUE??)
From: jhb@calmasd.prime.com (Jim Bishop)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What *IS* "Heaven", anyway?
Date: 14 Aug 92 06:20:14 GMT
Organization: -

In article <63835@cup.portal.com>, 
Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
> 
> A friend of mine in college told me that he feels that "heaven"
> is a place where you catch up on all the sin you missed on Earth.
> 

When I was growing up and having religion beaten into me and trying to
figure out what it was about this heaven place that would make we want
to give up so much to go there (I couldn't figure out why I'd ever
want to end up in the same place that my grandmother thought she was
going.); I finally came up with, "I'd like to meet Thomas Jefferson."
I'm not sure that T.J. would be at the top of my list today.  No, I
think I'd just like to be with my departed friends again, but I
wouldn't mind meeting Thomas too.

Jim
Newsgroups: soc.motss