From: fogarty@sir-c.jpl.nasa.gov (Tim Fogarty)
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.sex,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: GayBashing question
Date: 28 Jan 1993 01:18:12 GMT
Organization: JPL, Space Imaging Radar Software Group
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sir-c.jpl.nasa.gov


In article <C1JAK5.3DC@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, vengeanc@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () writes:

|>
|>Hmm... don't I remember something about women dressing "seductively" or
|>"sluttily" NOT being justification for rape?  I guess that a white
|>guy's presence in an area of town at night would by the same logic
|>not justify his murder.
|>
|>So liberals... what's the deal?  If white guys in bad areas are "asking"
|>for it, are women who are dressed sexily ALSO asking for it?  Or would
|>you give the conservative answer and say that NEITHER deserve it.  
|>Careful.. if you agree with me Hillary Clinton will revoke your membership
|>in "PCers for the Destruction of America".
|>
|>
|>Edward Simmonds- standard disclaimers  

Why do "conservatives" go off on these tangents?  No one is suggesting that
violence against white boys is OK.  The only person using terms like 
"asking for it" is Mr Simmonds. The original discussion, if I remember 
correctly, was about gay bashing.  Then certain people tried to state 
that gay bashing is not important because white boys get bashed too, if 
they go into certain parts of town.

Now Mr Simmonds attempts to use the First Lady's name as an insult.  How
does that add to the discussion ?

Gay bashing is wrong.  Just like any kind of violence against another 
person is wrong.  It would be nice to end all violence against all people,
but thats an awful big task, and the motive for each type of violence may
be different.  One motive is not better than the other, or more justified 
than the other.  But they are different  

Most gay bashing is performed by adolecent males.  (that should be a safe
generalization)  Mature adults usually have realized that the world, the
country, and even their own city, is full of people different than themselves.
If you struck out at everyone who was different than you, you would have
no time for anything else.  Also adults tend to realize that striking out
with violence at those who are different doesnt really change much of anything.

Adolecent males who go out looking for gays to beat up do it because they
think that 1) gays are easy targets and 2) that there will be no repercusions
in doing the gay bashing.  2a) would be that they think that they can get 
away with it because they think that its socially acceptable.

The only thing that we can do to counter gay bashing is 1) show potential
gay bashers that we will stand up to them, such as by having organized 
patrols walking the streets where gay bashing has occured, and 2) show that
there are repercusions to their actions, that people do get arrested and
sent to jail, and in places with hate-crime legislation, get a harsh sentence.
And 2a) is show that its not socially acceptable to bash gays by talking
about it in person and in the media, and in Usenet.

If Mr Simmonds and Mr Golberg think that white-boy bashing is a serious 
problem needing additional attention, I suggest that they analyze the problem,
determine its causes, and propose a plan of action, hopefully one that
would not cause any additional violence or break any additional laws.


--
Tim Fogarty (FOGARTY@SIR-C.JPL.NASA.GOV)
Sys Man and Sys Admin for the EGSE in the POCC at JSC for SRL-1 and SRL-2
SRL-1:  STS-59, launch date April 14, 1994
SRL-2:  STS-68, launch date December 1, 1994
I use to be very productive at work, until I got a News Reader for my VAX.
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh