HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Lawrence.London@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Lawrence London)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: cut the crap (was: ban gas weedeaters and assorted nonsense)
Keywords: weedeaters, chainsaws and tractors oh my
Date: 26 Aug 92 14:55:43 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

In article <bill.714791245@chaos.cs.umn.edu> bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu
In another of Bill's excellent messages he describes:
> [lots of great text on the beauties of rural life
  and high tech sustainable family farming gracefully deleted]
  
  You've expressed my thoughts 100% and in a colorful and
  evocative style. 
  Thanks

Lawrence

~
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: dealing with "meat" bees
Date: 30 Aug 92 23:01:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: organpip.1992Aug30.230142.27330
Organization: University of Arizona UNIX Users Group


Hi,  I'm a beekeeper.

The average hive has 20,000 to 100,000 bees,  so a 1/4 gallon of bees is not
much of a % of the population.

I would supect from the timing of you message, and your location, that you 
have gone into the fall "decline", where the number of flowering plants
has gone way down, and there are lots of idle surplus workers (kinda like
the US economy?).   These workers look for any decent source of protein,
to store to help the colony over the winter.   Generally the workers at
this time of year are older... and older bees tend to be grumpy bees.

If I'm right,  you should see serious decline in your problems in 3 to 6
weeks, as the old ones die off and arn't replaced (the queen slows laying
WAY down as a response to fall decline).

Possibilities include;

1)  put out some water for the bees.   Take a plastic bucket, put some 
hardware cloth in it so they can walk up and down,  and then keep it filled
2/3 with water.  You can fill it at night.   They will prefer easily accesable
water without 2 yr olds, especially if it's closer to home.

2)  find the hive, and then get a beekeeper to come out to move them.   Small
problem is that the hive can be up to three miles away (although it is
most likely within 1/2 to 1 mile).  And even when you do find it, no
beekeeper will take it this time of year.  It would die over the winter
because of loses incurred in the move.   "A swarm in may is worth a
rick of hay,  a swarm after july isn't worth a dead fly"

3)  You could make a bee proof cat feeding station.  Make a medium sized
box (3' * 3' * 1.5 high) out of 2*4's, and window screening, with a normal
cat door in it.  The cats can come and go,  but the bees will be
excluded.

4)  You could learn all about beekeeping, set up your own hive, and have
your bees outcompete the wild bees, get honey, entertainment, etc...
You can get bees that are very mild mannered.  I have one hive I regularly
open and manipulate without any protective equipment to astonish guests
(this is actually a hard thing to do safely).   But with the right
equipment (smoker, veil, gloves) you can easily manipulate a hive.  Then
during the fall decline you can water and feed them.   The feeding will
keep them happy, and away from the cat food.   And then you harvest the
honey, and you feel like the feeding did two things;  a)  made honey which
YOU eat   b)  kept the bees away from trouble.

5)  There is a compound known as "bee go", which is very effective at 
repelling bees.   It doesn't last long, stinks like heck.  But it is 
a good short term solution for emergencies.


I'll be happy to discuss anything about beekeeping.
From: scollins@lookout.it.uswc.uswest.com (Steven Collins)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Wanted: info on water purification systems
Date: 4 Sep 92 13:53:00 GMT
Organization: U S WEST Information Technologies


 Anybody have any suggestions on good water purification
systems?  We have been looking at RainSoft but also know
of other systems that use a magnetic field to precipitate
out the minerals.  Any info. would be welcomed.
Thanks, Steve
-- 
||  Steve Collins          ||  INTERNET: scollins@uswest.com      ||
||  1475 Lawrence Ave #500 ||                                     ||
||  Denver, CO 80202       ||  US WEST Multimedia AE              ||
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: papworth@pdx022 (David Papworth)
Subject: Re: Keeping ants away
Keywords: ants
Organization: Intel Corp., Hillsboro, Oregon
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 20:41:17 GMT

In article <6219@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu (Andrew M. Cohill) writes:
>In article <4852@rosie.NeXT.COM> afitz@next.com (Alex Fitz) writes:
>>Does anyone know of an effective, environmentally safe way to keep ants  
>>from coming in your house?  
>
>Plant a border of tansy all the way around the house.  This was used as
>a bug repellent at least as far back as colonial times.  Tansy is a
>perennial that is very hardy, spreads and fills in rapidly, and is
>moderately attractive.
>
>It's a bit like mint in its ability to spread (but not quite as bad), so
>plan carefully where you put it.
>
>Andrew
>
>-- 
>|          ...we have to look for routes of power our teachers never       
>|              imagined, or were encouraged to avoid.   T. Pynchon          
>|                    
>|Andrew Cohill        cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu            VPI&SU                                                  
Tansy is also deadly poisonous for horses and cattle. Fortunately
they seem know enough not to eat it, most of the time. It is very
pest resistant, very invasive, and hard to get rid of if you
decide you want to. There is one breed of catepillar which will
eat it; there are farmers around here that get batches of the
catepillars from OSU to try to keep the stuff down.
Planting a weed like tansy seems as bad as planting blackberries.
From: marym@mpd.tandem.com (Mary Matejka)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: well's -  pumps/pressure tanks
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:50:08 GMT
Organization: Tandem Computers (MPD) Austin, TX
Originator: marym@tzone.mpd.tandem.com


We are buying some property that comes with a deep well. I am
having the water tested for bacteria. But haven't a clue as
to how to what else I should look for. Or how to maintain a well.
It is shut off for the most part. I had to turn power on to
get any water out. And I guess the water had all drained out of
the pressure tank since the well started pumping as soon as
I flipped the switch and water kept running for several minutes
after I turned it off. 


Any information appreciated.
From: jonr@bigsky.dillon.mt.us (Jon Robinson)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Trailer (YECH!) foundations
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:55:40 GMT
Distribution: misc.rural
Organization: Big Sky Telegraph

Sorry to hear of your bad experience in a trailer park.  My suggestion
is to check with your bank about what THEIR requirements for a trailer
being permanent is.  In my parents case, all that was required for
a trailer to be ruled as permanent was for the tires to be taken off.
In another case it was required to be on a foundation so the people
I knew just built a wall of concrete cinder block around the edge
of a pit and dropped the trailer in (I would think it would be tricky
to get the pit depth exactly right, but they figured it out apparently).

Your mileage may vary.
-Jon
-- 
Jon Robinson @ Big Sky Telegraph       "Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  
Western Montana College of the         The staff usually forgets." - Fletch
University of Montana, Dillon MT                    
INTERNET: jonr@bigsky.dillon.mt.us     Disclaimer:  Don't blame my employer,  
VOICE:406-6837870 /FAX:406-6837493     my fingers are the guilty party.
From: coleve@cc.uvcc.edu
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Real Farms
Date: 4 Sep 92 01:44:15 GMT
Organization: Utah Valley Community College

In article <1992Sep3.205924.27072@news.iastate.edu>, mpleis@iastate.edu 
(Cowboy) writes:
> We need a discution about real farms here. I mean a farm you make your living
                            **********
> from, not just a little plot in the country.  Can everybody post what kind of
> operaton they have and the size and something about it.  Maybe we can get
> a threat that is "rural" related other the how to make bread or dig a well.
    ^^^^^^ (thread) ("Cowboy" types as badly as I)
> 
> Our farm this year is as follows:
> 2500 acres crops
     2500 acres * $1000/acre = $2.5 Million
> 90 head dairy soon to be 300+ (Reg. Jerseys)
     300 * $1000/head = $300,000
> 4 families live and work the farm
     4 homes * $50,000 = $200,000
     annual payroll about $200,000 including benefits?
> N.E. Iowa location
     don't forget a 1/4M$ dairy barn, tractors, implements, umm $750,000
> We are all computerized.
     lets estimate using CHEAP computers, --- $25,000
> Plus we write software for farms, sell software and hardware, and design new
> special equipment for farms and dairys.
     the computers just got expensive -- add $75,000
      and the payroll went up by $100,000
> 
My calculator says $3,850,000 in capitol with a $300,000 annual payroll.
What you have there is a factory located in a rural area -- hardly even
qualifies as a farm.   (Four Million Bucks!)

 (( P.S.:  do you have any openings for a farmhand/software engineer?))

   The farm with which I am most familiar just grew to 150 leased acres
(hay and barley).  Has a 20-year old IH tractor, 2 trucks, 6 Belgian Horses,
a harness shop, and three Bucks.  (Bob and Julie Buck and son Troy)
The most valuable thing on the place is Skip. He's a stud.  (The horse kind.)

   Making bread and digging wells arn't real concerns.  There are three
wells, and two of 'em have 40 horsepower pumps.  Julie (she's my big sister)
usually buys Rhodes frozen bread dough at the store, since she doesn't have
much time to bake after coming home from the office.  Bob drives school bus,
commercial trucks, makes harnesses, and farms.  Troy is also an over the road
truck driver.  It takes a lot of income to support a farm.

  As for me, I will be taking my second load of furniture to Mackay, Idaho,
tomorrow.  Julie and I are going full time with our software company.  We will
be selling business software, (some for farms -- aha! competition!) so look
for the 7C brand on your next accounting package.
-- 
-- Vern Cole 
-- (for 2 more weeks) Systems Manager -- Utah Valley Community College --
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu ()
Subject: Re: Bill's Many Messages
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:02:56 GMT

In <1992Aug26.150815.29405@samba.oit.unc.edu> Lawrence.London@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Lawrence London) writes:

>>>I think you misinterpet my intent .... I hope for constructive discussion
>>>from my messages...I am raising questions in environmental areas which
>You're on. BTW alt.co-evolution has a crowd interested in similar discussion.

>>i am considering setting up an online database for this type of info.
>I have started this on my bbs and am ready to take the project much further
>(see my e-mail reply to you)

i have your email. lets take this offline and continue. i am willing 
to accept any source of data, hints, and service requests. email would
be preferred. post if you can't reach me and i'll do what i can to help.
what kinds of info would others be interested in building up a db on??
please this is probably not the forum for info on how best to utilize the
L5 points. we can save that for later :-)

bill pociengel
--
bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu
From: sawtelle@mariposa.stonecutter.com (Don Sawtelle)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: dealing with "meat" bees
Date: 28 Aug 92 06:50:58 GMT
Reply-To: sawtelle@stonecutter.com
Organization: Stonecutter Software
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v4

We live just below the 3000' elevation in the Sierras near Mariposa.
Except in winter we have an omnipresent bee population that is
attracted to water and to cat food (and presumably anything else of a
similarly bee-edible nature, like a picnic). In this season they form a
buzzing presence at the end of the house where we feed the cats.
Unfortunately we can't feed the cats inside. Besides, they come to
water also, and our two-year-old likes to play with water.

The people who lived here before us had hung a bleach bottle in a tree
and it's about 1/4 full of dead bees from the previous year(s?). I
don't know exactly how they set up their trap, but I wonder if a trap
like that can substantially reduce the overall supply of bees.

The locals call these "meat bees," and say that they bite.

I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who can provide advice on reducing
the nuisance of these bees, or can perhaps provide any trivia about how
they're different from regular old honey bees. I am generally a live
and let live type, but it's hard to keep that attitude with so many
this close to the house, and with young children about.

Thanks!

---
Don Sawtelle:Stonecutter Software:Mariposa, CA
sawtelle@stonecutter.com
From: paradis@sousa.ltn.dec.com (Jim Paradis)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Earning a living in the country
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:57:09 GMT
Reply-To: paradis@tallis.enet.dec.com (Jim Paradis)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


>oh and it do help a BIG bunch when the sw skills are in demand (this year
>they are and i am in fat city. the past 3 they wern't and i suffered. 
>cash wise that is)

OK, Bill, riddle me this (and maybe this should go to misc.jobs.misc?)
Even if your software skills ARE in demand, how do you go about finding
employers or contracts that will let you work remotely?  Especially in
these recessionary times, there are *tons* of software folks, many with
high-demand skills, who are willing to relocate or commute.  I've run
into a brick wall every time I've brought up the subject of telecommuting.
The only approach I've found that works is to commute for a year, make
loads of contributions, become highly valued to the group or company and
then say "Let me work from home or I'll walk"  (I haven't done this, but
I've seen others who have).

Is there any less confrontational method of making it work?  I've found 
that I can expound on the benefits of telecommuting until I'm blue in
the face, and I get agreeable nods in return, along with "Yes, but we
don't work that way here" or something like that...

Any more ideas?

--
Jim Paradis (paradis@tallis.enet.dec.com) 
Working for DEC, speaking for myself.
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: hinz@picard.med.ge.com (David Hinz Mfg 4-6987)
Subject: Re: dealing with "meat" bees
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Magnetic Resonance
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Distribution: usa, na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 05:43:48 GMT

Tom Perigrin (tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu) wrote:
: 
: Wow,  a swarm in an oak log.  Neat.  There was an American Bee Journal
: article on how to remove such a hive this (or last) year.   As the article
: pointd out,  with queens and bees selling for $30/5 pounds,  it isn't
: economically feasible to take such hives.
: 
: BUT
: 
: Beekeepers are kinda romantic ol' souls.   So a lot of beekeepers do this

OK, I have no problem leaving the log sit there over the winter, but I
will call the beekeeper to verify that a> he wants them, and b> they are
honeybees.  That log would probably heat my house for a MONTH, but it'll
just be a month in 1994 instead of 1993.  No big deal.

Thanks for the input!

--

Dave Hinz  -  Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's.  Obviously.
hinzd@picard.med.ge.com
From: pkrause@triton.unm.edu (Paul Krause CIRT)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Trailer (YECH!) foundations
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:24:35 GMT
Distribution: misc.rural
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Aug28.142534.6812@infonode.ingr.com> knightf@infonode.ingr.com (Frank Knight) writes:
>In article <JWOODARD.92Aug27091320@zeste.nmsu.edu> jwoodard@nmsu.edu (Jeff Woodard) writes:
>>money (and time). Anyway, I'd like to know if anybody has any
>>experience in setting trailers permanently. The bank will only offer
>>	
>Well the ones I've seen around here have used concrete blocks on a
>footer and then used stucco or brick over the block for looks.  This
>would seem to be a low cost solution and would make it easy to move
>again.  You could also paint the block for a really low cost foundation.

Making it easy to move again is what the bank is trying to protect itself
against with the permanent foundation.  I would think local mobil home
dealers, or the bank lending officers whould know what they require.

Paul
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: mpleis@iastate.edu (Cowboy)
Subject: Re: Real Farms
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 02:17:27 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.184415.1@cc.uvcc.edu> coleve@cc.uvcc.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.205924.27072@news.iastate.edu>, mpleis@iastate.edu 
>(Cowboy) writes:
>> We need a discution about real farms here. I mean a farm you make your living
>                            **********
>> from, not just a little plot in the country.  Can everybody post what kind of
>> operaton they have and the size and something about it.  Maybe we can get
>> a threat that is "rural" related other the how to make bread or dig a well.
>    ^^^^^^ (thread) ("Cowboy" types as badly as I)
>> 
>> Our farm this year is as follows:
>> 2500 acres crops
>     2500 acres * $1000/acre = $2.5 Million

	A change is needed here land is $1500/acre

>> 90 head dairy soon to be 300+ (Reg. Jerseys)
>     300 * $1000/head = $300,000

	We are talking Registered cattle $1300/head

>> 4 families live and work the farm
>     4 homes * $50,000 = $200,000
	4homes 2 at $20,000, 1 at $100,000 and 1 at $10,000

>     annual payroll about $200,000 including benefits?
	Pay? try about $20,000 per family including benefits

>> N.E. Iowa location
>     don't forget a 1/4M$ dairy barn, tractors, implements, umm $750,000
	The barn new with free stalls is $800,000
	Implements I can't even give a price on I can gues 2.4mil but it's low

>> We are all computerized.
>     lets estimate using CHEAP computers, --- $25,000
>> Plus we write software for farms, sell software and hardware, and design new
>> special equipment for farms and dairys.
>     the computers just got expensive -- add $75,000
>      and the payroll went up by $100,000
	I do this work and I don't pay myself remember I goto ISU
>> 
>My calculator says $3,850,000 in capitol with a $300,000 annual payroll.
>What you have there is a factory located in a rural area -- hardly even
>qualifies as a farm.   (Four Million Bucks!)
>
> (( P.S.:  do you have any openings for a farmhand/software engineer?))
Sorry No. but I could use a good NCE (just kidding)

>
>   The farm with which I am most familiar just grew to 150 leased acres
>(hay and barley).  Has a 20-year old IH tractor, 2 trucks, 6 Belgian Horses,
well you got good stuff               ^^^^^^^^^^

>a harness shop, and three Bucks.  (Bob and Julie Buck and son Troy)
>The most valuable thing on the place is Skip. He's a stud.  (The horse kind.)
>

>tomorrow.  Julie and I are going full time with our software company.  We will
>be selling business software, (some for farms -- aha! competition!) so look
>for the 7C brand on your next accounting package.
Ours is PDI Data systems and the software is under Midwest farm managmnet.





-- 
mpleis@iastate.edu     Mark L. Pleis 
Agricultural Systems Technology, Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa

Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu ()
Subject: Re: Composting
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 23:45:01 GMT

In <ASHWIN.92Sep1110829@leo.gatech.edu> ashwin@gatech.edu (Ashwin Ram) writes:

>We want to start composting leaves (yes, fall is here!) and kitchen garbage

put them in a garbage can. put on you ear protection and eye protection.
fire up that ole (pc people don't read this!!!!!) gas/electric trimmer.
insert the business end in and flail away till its all little bitty pieces.
pour out and get it wet. leaves are hard as they tend to want to clump together
and dry out. the above method will help to aleviate that problem. btw this
is not my idea i think i got it from og.

>in our back yard, and would like some advice on exactly how to go about doing
>this.  Where does one start?  I don't really want to buy $100 "composting
>bins" I see advertised in specialty catalogs, but I don't want an ugly,

well you can make one from:
a) 4 wooden pallets (1 would be removable to dig the compost out with)
b) a used clean! 55 gal drum (metal or plastic {make certain you know what
used to be in there and are satisfied with what it was}) mounted so you can
spin it (or lay it on the ground every so often and roll it :-)
c) just throw it all in a big pile, wait oh a year or so and then use it from
the bottom up.

>smelly heap either.  Is there an easy, foolproof "do it yourself" method to
 ^^^^^^
it should not be this. if it is then something is wrong!
a) do not compost meat or meat products (including fish and spam |-^\ 
b) do not let it dry out (huh? well if you use a shovel and dig some up is it
wet? [to much water] dry [not enough water] damp [ahhhhhh just right] query?
are there worms in ther after a while?? good! :-))
c) if you are lazy (like me) then you don't need to turn it all the time (yea
but bill then it takes forever to compost) so? i start a new one (note: in
town this may not be an option so you'll need to turn it every... oh...
3-5 days {turn it??} ya know move this pile from here to there and in the
process put the top on the bottom and the bottom on the top! {oh. i get it})

>compost that isn't expensive or time-consuming?

>I asked this question on sci.environment, and was told that misc.rural might

well they didn't know 'cause they (excuse me but the following may be
flame producing) got their heads in the clouds. yea theory is nice, but
i can't eat theory, or keep very warm with it either:-)
i do believe we tend to discuss 'what works' here. tho yes it does sometimes
get a bit esoteric. so what?

>have a FAQ that answers it.  If so, could someone please point me to it (or
>it to me :-))?

faq? do we have a faq?? (no silly. FAQ! oh. yea. faq)

bill 'at it again' pociengel
--
bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: ashwin@gatech.edu (Ashwin Ram)
Subject: Composting
Reply-To: ashwin@cc.gatech.edu (Ashwin Ram)
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology, College of Computing
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:08:29 GMT

We want to start composting leaves (yes, fall is here!) and kitchen garbage
in our back yard, and would like some advice on exactly how to go about doing
this.  Where does one start?  I don't really want to buy $100 "composting
bins" I see advertised in specialty catalogs, but I don't want an ugly,
smelly heap either.  Is there an easy, foolproof "do it yourself" method to
compost that isn't expensive or time-consuming?

I asked this question on sci.environment, and was told that misc.rural might
have a FAQ that answers it.  If so, could someone please point me to it (or
it to me :-))?

Thanks,
Ashwin.
Newsgroups: misc.rural