Via: dcs.leeds.ac.uk (csvax1.ARPA); Tue, 7 Apr 92 10:08:10 GMT
Newsgroups: rec.music.synth
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 09:48:06 BST
From:         The Brown Bottle <ross-c@DCS.LEEDS.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: SC-155
Comments: To: SYNTH-L@AUVM.AMERICAN.edu

>From: John Cowles <cowles@com.CONVEX>
>Subject: Re: SC-155
>
>In article <9002.9204030902@orsun.dcs.leeds.ac.uk> The Brown Bottle
><ross-c@DCS.LEEDS.AC.UK> writes:
>>
>>something closer to 56,000 (*) yen? Also, in Japan you should NEVER pay more
>>than
>>80% of the list price for almost anything, certainly not for something common
>>like a sound canvas. If they won't haggle, go elsewhere.
>>
>>(*) I may be thinking of the post-80% price, it seems to fit.
>>
>
>The list price here for the SC-155 is 79000 yen and for the SC-55 it
>is 69000. Ishibashi Music (in Shinjuku) had the SC-155 marked at 74000 yen
>and I was able to get them down another 3000 yen. I have heard of people
>buying the SC-55 for as low as 57000 yen, but the lowest price I've
>gotten quoted was 63000 ( with the saleman telling me that whoever
>sold it for less was actually loosing money...) (Do I believe him???)
>
>

OK, 80% of 69000 (the sound canvas price) is 55200, around about the 20%
discount and 56000 price I mentioned. But as for the prices you describe;
(repeating and expanding) The entire time I was in Japan I never paid more
than 80% of the sticker price for anything expensive enough for it to
be worthwhile. I have never bought anything big from Ishibashi, but I did
do an experiment by bargaining over the phone for a Korg M3R (when they
were current). They went straight down to 80% (which I considered "normal")
and it looked as though if I pushed, they would go lower(*). I still think you
should try harder. For a start, when you walk into a shop you ask what their
discount from full price is (across the board). These exist, and 10% is
normal. Even this accounts for more than 3000 yen on 74000. If you look
around, you should find bigger discounts. I stuck with a local shop that
gave me good prices on everything across the board,

But even things that I couldn't buy there, with effort I got
the price down. A good trick was finding two shops really close to each
other with the item I wanted to buy, and walking back and forth telling
each what the other shop's price was and would they go any lower, until
the price bottomed out.

(*) Ishibashi advertise "surprising prices" (bikkuri suru nedan) in their
advertising. They did not get offended when I pointed out that the prices
in their advertisements were RRP and not very surprising, but started talking
turkey.

So, if you are getting a 5% discount (3000yen on 74000), I still think you
are getting a bad deal. Try harder (possibly saying "try harder" may be
offensive, but...). Try ringing up 20 stores (if you're in Tokyo). If things
are expensive in Tokyo, pick a small town and try the stores there. Try
cultivating an Osaka accent ( :-) ). From my experience Ishibashi should be
as good as any shop, but if you've already been buying there at 95%......

This is not politically correct, but if you want to learn correct bargaining
language, go to a car yard and try to bargain the price of a car down to
something completely impossible, and listen to the way the salesperson
talks. Then duplicate the accent over the phone.

Cheers,

Ross-c
Xref: sparky rec.music.synth:7733 rec.music.makers:5535 rec.music.bluenote:3258