HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brw@hertz.njit.edu (Brian White)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: warm up a car in winter
Date: 9 Jan 93 22:45:17 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1993Jan8.200529.1595@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> dy@dancer.cc.bellcore.com (yatcilla,douglas a) writes:
>In his book "Car Tips for Clean Air" (ISBN# 0-399-51649-2) Bob
>Sikorsky says pollution control is the main reason to limit
>the time spent "warming up" the car on a cold, winter morning.

...good stuff eliminated...

>
>- Oxygen sensor only works when warm.  NOx emmisions will be high
>  until the O2 sensor starts to work.

Depends on whether it's a single or three wire; the three wire heats up
and is effective "immediately"...

>"Oxygenated" gasoline in used in most urban parts of the USA in
>the winter months.  I think one motivation for its use is that lots of
>people idle their autos excessively in order to "warm them up."  For

..and another is profit for the oil companies :^( - my mileage has dropped
by about 2MPG since November (and the gas prices have risen, as well)...

>Ironic aside:  The book was published in 1991 and at one point,
>Sikorsky attributes Roger Smith with saying that 83% of all auto
>pollution is produced by cars made before 1983 ("83-83 rule".)  The
>message is that you should trade up to a newer car if you have an
>old polluter.  This seems counter the thesis in Sikorsky's earlier
>book "Drive It Forever!" but he doesn't mention it.

I've also read that the pollution produced by manufacturing a new car, plus
the lack of much recycling of cars put out to pasture may offset the 
pollution your old clunker produces - no hard data, though...

>NOW... I've been told that driving a car slowly to warm it up will
>cause less engine wear (not talking about pollution now) than letting
>it idle.  Can someone give me a reason for that if it's true???  In
>other words, does it matter if, say, a '67 Camaro (i.e. no modern
>emission control equipment) is idled rather than driven to warm it up?

An engine that has sat all night has very little oil (if any at all)
on its internal moving parts. When you start it (idling), very little oil
pressure is present to get that oil moving about (and cold oil is
viscous), so there is generally less lubrication/more wear happening
within that engine. If you drive the car (*easy* on those revs!), the
oil will heat faster and flow quicker to where it's needed.

This makes sense to me, but I'd welcome (polite!) corrections.

Oh yes, I'd be gentle with that '67 Camaro - if it's in good shape, it's 
probably worth a bit :^).

Brian 

(who has just realized he'd better get on the stick with that oil change :^)
-- 

Brian White, System Manager
New Jersey Institute of Technology
brw@hertz.njit.edu brw@njit.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: alavigne@bmerh930.bnr.ca (Andrew Lavigne)
Subject: Re: Multivalve/cylinder engines
Organization: Bell Northern Research
	<1993Jan6.231800.14001@newsgate.sps.mot.com>
	<Jan07.011324.12511@engr.washington.edu>
	<1993Jan7.173818.23327@newsgate.sps.mot.com> <1993Jan7.201217.18011@bnr.ca>
Distribution: na
Date: 11 Jan 93 15:34:39


>In the case of the Civics, with the engine running at less than approx.
>5000 rpm, the engine is acting like a _3_ valve per cylinder engine.  Only
>one of the intake valves actually opens, and it opens in such a way as to
>induce a vortex of air and fuel into the cylinder, mixing it better.  This
>allows for a cleaner burn which gives slightly more power and good emissions
>performance.  As engine rpms increase, the one valve opens more until
>at higher than approx. 5000 rpm, both intake valves open.

Actually, I think this is only the case for the Civic VX (called VTEC-E).  
The other Civic engines with VTEC have a similar setup to the 'full' VTEC of
the Prelude VTEC, Integra GS-R and NSX, but only on the intake valves.  Also,
the change-over speed for the different cams is only at about 2500 rpms for
the VTEC-E.

Andrew
alavigne@bnr.ca
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: doug@justdoit.ingr.com (Doug Harbord)
Subject: Any opinions about an 88 4x4 Chev Suburban
Reply-To: doug@justdoit.b11.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corporation
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 18:01:12 GMT

I looking at buying 1988 4x4 Suburban with 70k miles on it. I would like to hear from
those of you who have had problems or good experinces with this truck!

Thanks

--
Doug Harbord 	Intergraph Corporation
M.S. CR1102	Systems Product Marketing - Graphics Technology
(205)730-6166	b11!justdoit!doug
internet 	doug@justdoit.b11.ingr.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Anti-Lock Brakes makes stopping SAFER?
Date: 4 Jan 93 16:33:28 GMT
Reply-To: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.  Engineering

In article <1993Jan2.033121.18669@netcom.com>, mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael 
Zimmers) writes:
> >If the ABS had not been sufficient to stop me, I would have certainly
> >been prevented b\from using the skid to lessen the impact.  The skid
> >would have:
> >
> >	1. scrubbed speed off from the drag produced thereby reducing
> >		impact.
> 
> What makes you think the incremental braking of ABS wouldn't have given
> you at least comparable deceleration?
> 
> >	2. Spread the impact over a wider surface area, causing the car to
> >		take the impact instead of the human body.
> 
> This seems to be an incidental benefit due to circumstances, and could
> easily have been reversed.
> 
> >	3. Might have allowed me to steer around the other car had they come
> >		to a stop, by converting the skid into forward motion allowing
> >		me to "drift" around the other car.
> 
> Again, circumstance.  You've got more steering control with ABS than 
without.
> 
> >I don't know if ABS is always a good thing or not.
> 
> I've yet to hear of a legitimate case where it wasn't.


I made the point that the ABS actually in this case did stop me quicker.
That instead of sliding sideways the ABS simply slowed me down to a stop,
proves that it worked.  The only thing I was concerned with was, that if
the ABS was not able to stop me, (not enough room), I might have hit this
person someplace around the driver's door with my car and that would have
been rather damaging to the person inside, while, hitting him (actually it
was a woman), with the side of my car tot he side of her car might have
lessoned the impact, at the slow speeds involved.

That it is a benefit of circumstances is true to some extent.  i think part
of good driving is altering the circumstances of a situation to make them
better when possible, and in this case it would have been possible to do
so, had I been in a car without ABS.  obviously however the ABS did in fact
work properly in this case, and no collision resulted.  This was one of the
first experiences I had with ABS and I was not prepared for the utility
of it under these circumstances.

I think in retrospect having owned the car for 2 years now, that any 
future cars I buy will probably have ABS on them, as the overall
safety increase seems real.  I still believe though that a good driver
given more or less normal real-life conditions can do as well as the
ABS, until conditions get real hairy (snow on one side, water on the
other?).


Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com or 74616.2237@compuserve.com
SHO  GOZE
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: AudiWatch Update (Tm) #8
Date: 7 Jan 93 02:44:45 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation

In article <1993Jan6.210602.20631@julian.uwo.ca> morton@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Brent Morton) writes:
>
>It really amuses me when someone is flamed by someone else who knows absolutely
>nothing about the subject in question, not to mention is a hypocrite as well.
>
>The Wankel rotary was invented by Felix Wankel (who became associated with NSU
>during the development of the rotary engine) in the early '50's, and first ran
>in 1957. The world's first rotary-engined car, the NSU Spider, was announced
>at the September 1963 Frankfurt Auto Show, a month ahead of the Mazda Cosmo,
>which was THE PRODUCT OF ANOTHER WANKEL LICENSE. Got that?
>
    I don't honestly remember if any Porsche/VW company ever really
    had a Wankel license.

    And the flamer is obviously not aware of the giant American
    company who DID own a Wankel license, but with typical tunnel
    vision, dropped it.  GM.  

    Too bad Volvo didn't pick up a license.  Their recent hybrid
    show car would make a lot of sense in today's market if it had a
    nice 2-3 rotor Wankel for highway driving and an electric for
    commuting...due to the tremendous size/horsepower advantage of
    the rotary you could easily fit both under the hood of a 940.


Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: sahul@loading-zone.Stanford.EDU (Zakir H. Sahul)
Subject: Re: LH test-drive results (by a buyer)
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 21:08:16 GMT

In article <1icop2INNlu1@menudo.uh.edu>, esl_manager@gimme.uh.edu () writes:
|> 
|> Hi,
|> 
|> I understand saying that "Assembling" is the lowest tech of all the
|> phases of manufacturing is not always correct, but considering
|> auto-manufacturing, we can clearly see the trend that the Japanese are
|> assembling their cars here in the USA, much of which is done by robots
|> anyway, isn't it?
|> 
|> Of course, then, they say that their cars are "Made in USA" so as to
|> evade tariffs & the like. But, where is the major bulk of the profits
|> going to? Are the profits going to our assembling plant workers?
|> Undoubtedly, the Japanese companies are the ones reaping all that
|> profits. What do you call this? The transfer of American wealth across
|> the Pacific!
|> 
|> --
|> Arthur

The value added to a product by workers is beneficial to their community.
If a worker adds a lot of value to a product, then he/she will be highly paid. 
Generally, in today's economy, skilled "high tech" workers add more to the value
of a product and hence command higher income and higher standards of living.
(Note: workers = {engineers, assembly line workers, technicians, salespeople,
managers, etc.})

Design, Engineering, Component Manufacturing, Final Assembly, Marketing and
Shipping all add value to the product.  If final assembly is very important and
adds a lot of value, then a community should covet the opportunity to do final 
assembly.  It's citizens will be well paid and lead comfortable lives.  However,
my guess is that the value of final assembly of automobiles and their shipping
is a small fraction of the total value.

The final "Made in Country A" stickers are useless.  What is more important is
how much of the value of the car was due to the labor and know how of people in
Country A.
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: What kind of gas to use with a '90 Volvo 740 Turbo?!?!
Date: 9 Jan 93 00:15:08 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation

In article <C0JyLt.2pB@utdallas.edu> goyal@utdallas.edu (MOHIT K GOYAL) writes:
>Hello.
>
>I do not know very much at all about cars, so please excuse my ignorance.
>
>I just purchased a 1990 Volvo 740 Turbo from some relatives.  It has almost
>50,000 miles on it.
>
>Can anyone tell me if I will gain anything from using the high-octance 
>unleaded gasoline being sold, over the (cheaper) "normal" unleaded gasoline?
>
   I'd check with your dealer, but premium is the best bet for THAT
   car.

>Also, can any Volvo owners tell me how many miles I can expect this car to
>last me, assuming I get in no major accidents and perform regular
>maintenance?(ie-take care of it)
>
   Dealer bulletins indicate that replacement of the turbos in the
   75-80K range is not unheard of.  Other than that, it may outlive
   you.

   Nice car.
From: jr4q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jason M. Roth)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Geo Prizm vs. Honda Civic
Date: 11 Jan 93 11:00:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.0fIRziK00UzxE37Ylp
Organization: Junior, Architecture, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

This has been mentioned before, but not strongly enough for my tastes:
check out Saturn! Among other things, since you're looking at 4-doors,
I'm assuming size is an issue; Saturns are _much_ bigger on the inside
than Geos or Civics (actually, almost as big as Accords, Honda's "big"
car), and in every way wonderful. I'm 6'-1", and was comfy in the back
behind my dad (6'-4") driving (who had no problems fitting). Plus,
Saturn features many touches not available in this range (even from
almighty Honda), such as the bags, the paint job, the traction control
(pretty cheap, although of course requiring auto), etc. And the best
dealers this side of $30k.

JMR
HSK

'93 SL2, blue-green.
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: '93 Probe GT in snow.
Date: 5 Jan 93 01:47:38 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation

>turner@ss20.cps.msu.edu (Stephen Turner) writes:
>: 2) does anyone have a good estimate of how much it would cost to get
>:    some normal wheels with all-season radials, etc., that could be
>:    put on in fall and taken off in spring?  (Does anyone ever DO this?)
>:
In article <1993Jan4.190904.9310@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> fengxi@prancer.eche.ualberta.ca (Fengxi Zhou) writes:
>
>You might as well put on four snow tires in fall and switch back to performance
>tire in spring. People here in Edmonton do this on a regular basis.
>

   That's pretty unnecessary wear and tear on the alloy wheels AND
   the tires.  

   Not only that, but the alloys are pretty wide...you can get
   better snow performance with a narrower tire.  

   OEM steel wheels are pretty cheap, you can buy them with the snow
   tires mounted and balanced...   After the first time you pay to
   have the snows/originals swapped and balanced at the beginning
   and end of the season, you'll have paid as much as a steel wheel
   costs.

   Look in R&T or C&D for Tire Rack or a couple of the other mail
   order companies for OEM style steel wheels + snow tires.  Local
   tire shops also carry them, as does Sears.
From: hm002b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (PRIMUS SUCKS!)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Honda 1992 EX Coupe and ABS Brakes
Date: 9 Jan 93 00:24:01 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

In article <1993Jan8.220918.27056@sbctri.sbc.com> asper@sbctri.sbc.com (Alan E. Asper) writes:
>In article <147520049@hplsla.hp.com> genet@hplsla.hp.com (Gene Taylor) writes:
>>We have a 92 EX with ABS and the brakes work fine.  We don't get a lot
>
>Some clarification might be needed: the '93 Civic EX COUPE does NOT have
>ABS available. I know, 'cause I bought one today. :-)
>
>But the 4-door Civic EX has ABS.
>
>Alan

Sorry about that people. When I constructed the original message I neglected
to include the word "Accord" in the Subject header however it was included
in the main body.
From: stecz@pencom.com (John Steczkowski)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: What is the resonable oil comsumption?
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:29:36 GMT
Reply-To: stecz@pencom.com
Distribution: austin
Organization: Pencom Software

In article <1993Jan5.021818.11839@tandem.com> norcott_bill@tandem.com (Bill  
Norcott) writes:
> I read somewhere if you go 65 MPH you consume three times the oil as 
> when you go 45.
>

Could you find out where you read this?  I'd like to know, that way if I ever  
get more technical information from that source, I'll know to ignore it.

If a car consumes 3 times as much oil at 65, than 45, then since my SE-R  
doesn't use any oil at 85+, than at 45, I would have to stop every once in a  
while and drain out the extra oil, so my crankcase doesn't overflow.  :-)
--
  John Steczkowski                        stecz@pencom.com
  "Achilles raised his spear, took careful aim, and hurled."
  					    from the Iliad
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: GEICO's Laser Guns
Date: 12 Jan 1993 20:08:57 GMT
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.239.3.202

sr0o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Steven Ritter) writes:
>I don't have any problem with GEICO donating laser guns to police. If
>they think that this will reduce claims (and thus their costs), then
>this is exactly what they should be doing.

Most people, like myself, feel that they did it to increase premiums
without significantly affecting claims.  That means that more of their
customers pay them more money -- regardless of whether or not claims
are affected.  The difference is pure profit.

They obviously equate speeding to increased claim rates.  That's
undoubtably true if the speed limits are set sanely.  Since they are
not on US highways, and they are habitually broken by 85% of all
drivers, what that means is that better speed "enforcement" (meaning
more tickets issued) increases their revenue without affecting
population behavior whatsoever.  Worse, since the limits are so low
that average drivers habitually break them by fifteen or twenty mph,
infractions can be treated as major traffic infractions when in
reality they represent small variations from the norm.  They get major
changes in income from minor statistical variations.

All of this adds up to increased revenue without increased cost, which
is an ideal situation for the insurance company.  It's not what I'd
call morally sound though.

Likewise speed enforcement is now being used as a revenue generator by
police forces rather than as a way of improving safety.  That's a
conflict of interest, plain and simple, and it has had far-reaching
effects in our society.  Suddenly the policeman is not a friendly guy
trying to protect a citizens from a few criminals, but instead he's an
adversary to nearly everyone.  Respect breaks down in short order and
the whole system of trust -- upon which our entire judicial system
depends -- falls apart.  It should be obvious that this has already
taken place (although to be honest I'm not certain it was precipitated
primarily by the 55mph speed limit :-).

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:52:55 CST
From: <U55253@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: A QUESTION ABOUT TIRES
Distribution: usa

In article <86098@ut-emx.uucp>, mtbs100@emx.cc.utexas.edu says:
>
>Hi there!  I know very little about tires, so if any of you can help me with
>a very simple (ignorant, you might say) question, I'll greatly appreciate it.
>
>According to my car's manual, the recommended tire size is 185/70-R14.  But
>after looking through some mail order ads in car magzines, I find that most
>of them only have 185/70-SR14, 185/70-HR14 or 185/70-VR14.  I don't know
>what the difference is between these designations or whether they will fit
>on my car.  Which one of them is the best in terms of wet/dry traction?
The letters H,S, or V refer to the speed ratings of the tires.  This is a
measure of the tires ability to withstand sustained high-speed operation.
The ratings are:
Q = 99mph
S = 112 mph
T = 118mph
U = 124 mph
H = 130 mph
V = 130 - 149 mph (w/o or w/service description)
Z = above 149 mph
.
These ratings will not give you much informtion about traction, etc.  However,
There are temperature ratings and traction ratings stamped on the side of the
tire which do provide this information.  Road & Track or Car and Driver a few
years ago in which they did a comparison test that you would find very useful.
My personal favorite in your tire size is the Goodyear Eagle GT+4.  It has
excellent all weather traction (esp. rain and snow).  I hope this helps!
Good hunting!
                   -Brian Conran, Gradual Student
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mark@wdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw)
Subject: Re: AudiWatch Update (Tm) #8
Organization: Motorola Western MCU Design Center, Chandler Arizona
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:04:26 GMT

In article <Jan07.190958.17906@engr.washington.edu>, eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
|> >I think you comments regards the Japanese being technological superior are a
|> >little overblown, wouldn't you say? 
|> 
|> hey, wait a minute!!!  you got the wrong guy.  i never participated in
|> this thread until you asked when toyota came out with 4 valve heads.
|> it's partially my fault too, since i deleted the attributions because
|> they got too convoluted.

Sorry Eliot, I guess that's a risk you run when you answer for someone else!-)  
I appreciate your input, but I was really waiting for Mark Newton-John
to back up his claims on his own.  Now we will never know:-(

|> >I think you give the Japanese too much credit for things which they are
|> >really only acquiring from others (Wankel license from NSU, 4-valve heads
|> >from Lotus, and electronic fuel injection licensed by Nippondenso from Bosch).
|> 
|> wrong attribution, but i'll respond anyway.  third party parts suppliers
|> are a fact of life for car manufacturers.  toyota buys lots of major

My point is not that only Japanese manufacturers do this, but that the general
public tends to grant Japan some magically credit for anything that happens
to show up on a Japanese car.  Life isn't that simple.

|> >Give them credit for manufacturing excellence, but let's not go overboard and
|> >give them credit for every technological advance to show up in the world.
|> ..................
|> excellence.  on the other hand i have never been able to accept their
|> willingness to compromise engineering principles in order to sell more
|> cars.  i find that the europeans are far more faithful to engineering
|> principles than the japanese (and that is why i will continue to buy
|> "inferior, overpriced" european products), even if they can't match
|> the japanese manufacturing capabilities.

You expressed my sentiments exactly about "engineering principles."  
Japan is good at what they do because they build what they know will sell.
That doesn't necessarily mean that it makes sense.

Mark
From: br@cs.cmu.edu (Bill Ross)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Offroad list?
Date: 5 Jan 93 13:10:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.C0Dty7.BLo.2
Reply-To: br@cs.cmu.edu
Organization: CMU Vision and Autonomous Systems Center


   Does anyone know what happened to the offroad mailing list?
   I used to be on it but I haven't gotten any messages for awhile...

   Bill
   br@cs.cmu.edu
From: jitloke@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Jit-Loke Lim)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Lotus Elan...why did it fail?
Date: 11 Jan 93 20:59:35 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1993Jan11.200430.3294@pony.Ingres.COM> daveb@lotus (Dave Brower, DBMS hack, [510] 748-3418) writes:
>
>If they dropped the price of a Turbo-esprit another 20 to 44k, they
>still might move some units.
>

I read somewhere that Lotus had a "sale" on Esprit Turbos by dropping the
price by 20K, not sure if it was 64K to 44k. It was probably 84K down to 64K,
like you imply.

Jit