From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: Rescorla for himself.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 15:47:23 GMT

In article <BuBHpq.E8@acsu.buffalo.edu> omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu (The God-Bitch Emperor of Snuggle Bunnies) writes:
>In <1992Sep8.235056.10764@cs.yale.edu> rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:
>
>>>I dunno depend on you really.
>>Huh?
>
>Whoops that should be depends...  Ekr, you are really slick.. Are you
>sure you aren't a lawyer or a politician..
Yes. I'm a computer programmer.

> I had to read each and
>everyone of your articles to find out where you stand and I'm still
>not sure *sheesh*....  Anyway I'm clear enuf to deal with this (I
>think) so here goes...
I haven't said where I stand, really. It's not relevant. I'm criticizing
a specific argument. That doesn't say anything about where I stand
on gay rights.

>The begining: The golden rule: Do unto others as you'd have them do to you.
Agreed.

>You say: this makes it ok to cocerce other into doing what you want
>them to do.
It follows from accepting the golden rule, yes.
Now, notice, it ALSO follows that it isn't ok, if you substitute
a different "what you'd have them do to you"

>     Well, then (rather than some long arguement).  Say I see some
>cute guy and say to myself if I were straight I would want to be made
>gay so I could sleep with him".  Does that give me the right to find a
>straight boy and force him to have sex with that guy?  No of course
>not.  The golden rule here can be used against itself.
Here's where you start thinking clearly.
This argument started with someone claiming that the golden rule
prohibited coercing homosexuals to become straight. I pointed
out that the same argument could be used to come to the conclusion
that the Golden Rule REQUIRES you to coerce homosexuals to become
straight. That's why the Golden Rule is useless as a moral standard.

>  It says that
>You should not force someone to do what they don't want to do because
>you wouldn't want people forcing you to do things that you wouldn't
>want to do..  I.E. a christian being forced to kill their child.  Now
>you can say Oh, if I were sick I would want somebody to heal me, BUT
>that assumes that you are sick.  What you beleive is irrelevant.  You
>cannot force someone to get "well" because you *think* they are sick
The golden rule says you can.

>the golden rule say not to force people to do something against their
>will..  If they said "I'm sick help me" thats different.
The golden rule says no such thing.
It says "do unto others what you would have them do unto you."
If you substitute "Force me to be straight" you get the result that
you SHOULD force gay people to become straight.

If you substitute "Leave me alone" you get the result that you
SHOULD leave gay people alone.

Which one you substitute depends entirely upon your assumption set.

And that is why the Golden Rule, in and of itself, is insufficient
to lead to the conclusion that one should not attempt to force
gay people to become straight, which is what I have been maintaining
all along.

>*take that and shove it in your holy hard-drive*
I'm not religious, sir.
-Ekr

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rescorla, DoD#431 (Nighthawk S)              rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
Former chemist now CM400 mechanic                 ekr@eitech.com(preferred)
                       I will hack Unix for food.
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