HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: m0g7506@rigel.tamu.edu (GOEL, MUKUL)
Subject: Brominated vegetable oil
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:09:00 GMT

Most of the flavoured sodas like Minute Maid, Sunskit and other lemon
and orange flavours have an ingredient BVO or Brominated Vegetable Oil
which is used to emulsify the flavour concentrates in the liquid. Its
use was banned in some other countries due to it's cancer causing effects.
Does any one knows if the type of BVO being used in US soda industry 
is OK or it's effects are doubtful.

Mukul Goel
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: butter vs. margarine
From: duncan@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Duncan McEwan)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 03:11:21 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, Victoria University of Wellington

In article <1992Aug12.084604.19928@aisb.ed.ac.uk> eddie@cstr.ed.ac.uk
(Eddie Rooney) writes:
>
>Margarine has got to be healthier, if only because it tastes so horrible
>you're not likely to eat very much of it.

When I was living in the UK a couple of years ago I tasted some really
horrible margarine.  It's been a while now, but I'm sure that when I looked
at the ingredient's list, I noticed that "animal fats" where listed...
Does anyone know if this could be true, or is my memory faulty?

Here in New Zealand I have never seen any margarine with with animal fats
listed as an ingredient -- some have skim milk products -- I'm not sure if
that is what the UK margarine was talking about...

Duncan
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: evanderw@mpr.ca (Eva Vanderwerf)
Subject: RECIPE: felafel patties
Keywords: felafel vegan
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 15:25:19 GMT

Someone asked for a felafel mix recipe -- I got this one from a vegetarian
cooking class-- I think it's actually vegan.  They're pretty spicy!!

Felafel Chickpea Patties

1 cup soaked chick peas
1 tsp salt
2 Tbsp. finely chopped parsley
1 tsp ground coriander
salt and pepper to taste
1/4 tsp cayenne pepper
1 tsp baking soda
1/2 cup chopped onion
1 tsp roasted cumin seeds
2 cloves minced garlic
1 tbsp lemon juice
oil for frying

Put chick peas, baking soda, salt and pepper in food processor and turn the
machine on and off until you have the texture of corase meal.
Empty the chickpeas into a bowl and add onions, parsley, cumin, coriander, 
garlic, lemon juice and cayenne.  Mix gently with a fork.  This mixture should
be loose and crumbly.

Using a light touch form the mixture into patties.  Do not pat down or try
to be too neat.  The patties should just hold together.  Lightly fry the patties
until they are brown on both sides,  turning at least once during cooking time.
Make sure that the pan is at a moderate heat and not too hot.  Serve hot
in pita with shredded lettuce and sliced tomatoes (and tsatsiki/hot sauce).

Low-fat alternative: instead of frying, bake for 15 minutes in a 350 oven,
flip, bake 10-15 minutes more.

-- 
--------------------------------+----------------------------------
Eva Vanderwerf                  | Voice    :  (604) 293-6072 
MPR Teltech Ltd. 8999 Nelson Way| FAX      :  (604) 293-5787 
Burnaby, BC, Canada, V5A 4B5    | Internet : evanderw@mprgate.mpr.ca 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Rich & Michael
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:43:41 GMT

Charles Parr writes:

>Look, friend. I am a meat eater, a fisherman, a hunter of small
>game and a pet owner. In the eyes of some fanatics, that makes me
>Satan himself.

>I read this group for the recipes as well. To give you an even
>bigger case of indigestion, you squealing evangelist, I often
>modify them to include *meat*. I have never yet flamed anyone
>on this group for the self righteous arrogance I have seen
>so often, but all good things come to an end.

>So live with it, pal, I ain't just an eater of animal corpses,
>I'm a *maker* of animal corpses, and I *enjoy* it...So why
>don't you eat a little nice raw filet, I think you are showing
>signs of the intellectual decay associated with protein
>deficiency.
> . . .

I think Aldous Huxley was correct when he said of fanaticism:
 
     "Defined in psychological terms, a fanatic is a man who
     consciously over-compensates a secret doubt"
          (from Vulgarity in Literature, chp. 4)
     
Well, the over-zealous declaration of Faith and the belligerent
vegetarian bashing by our inveterate hunter above is indeed
displaying this very over-compensation.  Note the admittedly
unrestrained compulsion to boast of his inconsistency of being a
pet owner and hunter, and, to taunt the peaceful vegetarians on
this conference with his gloating about his own meat-eating.
 
Again, we have here a good example of a defensive omnivore, one
who ironically evinces with his own philippic the very thing he
would so vehemently decry.

                                       ted
 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@serum.kodak.com
Subject: Re: Rainforests and McDonalds
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 19:49:45 GMT

In article <altar.714116430@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
>young@serum.kodak.com writes:
>
>>[...]
>
>>The following was printed in the latest issue of the TUFTS UNIVERSITY DIET AND
>>NUTRITION LETTER, Vol. 10, No. 4, June 1992:
>
>>	BEEF EATING'S INFLUENCE ON THE ENVIRONMENT
>
>> . . .
>>	But contrary to the impression
>>	Rifkin creates, some experts believe that the worst of the plunder
>>	is over and that the American taste for beef has little impact
>>	today on what happens in the tropical rain forests.  Less than one
>>	percent of the beef Americans eat is imported from Central and
>>	South America, according to the United States Department of
>>	Agriculture, and even that small amount is steadily declining.
>> . . .
>
>We are going in circles here.  How does this argue against my
>point that seemingly small impacts from one perspective
>(i.e., "less than 1% of American consumption of beef) still
>can have large and devasting effects over time and from the
>more relevant perspective of what is actually occuring with
>the rain forests in Latin America?

	It points out the fact that there are flaws in Rifkin's arguments,
	and it re-affirms the fact that, for the U.S. at least, it is a
	tiny, and [especially] diminishing, concern.

>Yes, I believe you posted this before, but so what?  Who are these
>"experts" and how about some primary sources?  At least Rifkin
>documents his statements with primary sources and therefore I
>am more inclined to believe his well-argued case than this 
>glib review. 

	The source of the review is documented, talk to THEM if you think
	that the review is "glib".  The editorial address is:

		Readers' Questions
		Tufts Diet and Nutrition Letter
		203 Harrison Ave.
		Boston, MA, U.S.A.   02111


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Rich & Michael
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:06:36 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1992Aug13.005758.23626@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.162713.14101@dircon.co.uk> uad1214@dircon.co.uk (Peter Cox) writes:
>>In my view, vegetarianism is overwhelmingly a moral issue.
>>I would hold that there are indeed some universal moral
>>standards, and at the top of the list must be a general
>>abhorrence towards killing.
>>This is erroneous.  A universal moral wrong cannot be right
>>for some and wrong for others.
>
>I'll bet you're a real joy at abortion debates.  Listen,
>you're confronted with a situation where not everyone holds these
>so-called "universal" moral standards.
>
>>I hold that *all* vegetarians have an overwhelming moral
>>duty to "spread the word", and the "live and let live"
>>mind-set actively prevents this from happening.
>
>Many vegetarians aren't vegetarian because of their moral scruples, of
>course.  I think you should be as in-your-face on this issue as you
>want to be, and encourage others to be so too, but that includes being
>prepared to be treated as a pariah.  This may be an acceptable
>trade-off for you.

In any case, if there is a moral obligation then surely it is "to do
all that you can to reduce the amount of pain/suffering/cruelty in
the world". As a practical matter, this may or may not be best
acheived by being a "militant vegetarian". It might be more effective
to "lead by example". I tend to think that the most effective thing is
to be healthy, fit, active etc, and occasionally let people know that
you are in fact a vegetarian, but not to go on about it too much and
antagonise them.

I guess what I am saying is: I don't think morality can possibly
dictate that you go so far overboard as to become a "pariah", because
if you do, then you won't persuade anyone, and you'll literally be
no use to man nor beast.

Not that I am assuming that anyone was suggesting that "morality
dictates" that you should be that strident.

Paul
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (james.w.lacey)
Subject: Re: Are there any reasonably priced cruelty free products???
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:41:52 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.191742.14006@cci632.cci.com> agc@cci632.cci.com (Anupama Chathampally - co-op) writes:
>
>	I just went to the body shop yesterday and spent $16+ on a deoderant,
>and a tiny bottle each of shampoo and conditioner.  I love getting cruelty free
>products but I can't afford them.  I just looked through the FAQ list and saw
>a bunch of other places.  Before I write to these places does anyone have any
>recommendations on places that are more reasonably priced and have good stuff?
>Thanks.

While I agree that cruelty-free products (like Body Shop) and other
"natural" products are generally more expensive, I have found that
they frequently last longer than regular commercial brands.  For
example, Body Shop and Tom's of Maine both sell natural men's
shaving creme at about 5.00 a tube, which seems expensive, but
a very small amount is required to get an adequate lather, as 
opposed to the commercial canned shaving creme.  

Soap made without animal fat (like Kiss My Face and Dr. Bronner)
also seems to last at least twice as long as commerial soap.

BTW, who is Dr. Bronner ?  What is this all-in-one religious stuff
on the package of his soap ?  If anyone on the net know, please
post the info, I am sure that many other people have wondered.




-- 
     Jim Lacey  --  my own opinions    
     email:  att!cbnewsl!jlacey  or  jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
     D'ou venons-nous? Que sommes-nous? Ou allons-nous?
From: jpinteri@gdansk.qualcomm.com (Jay Pinterics)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Are there any reasonably priced cruelty free products???
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:00:10 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA


You may also want to try Aveda products for skin and
hair care and Indra (their sister company) for makeup.
I called their (800) number for the number of the local 
distributor, who then directed me to the stores and 
salons in my area.
	Aveda Corporation
	Minneapolis, MN 55413 USA
	(800) 328-0849

I would recommend that you purchase your products from 
an approved distributor, no matter which company you choose
to support.  Many of the more popular products have rip-off
clones and some outright illegal imitations that are 
indentical to the original in packaging.  These imitations
do not guarantee non-animal products and testing.
From: adrothst@athena.mit.edu (Andrew D Rothstein)
Subject: Birkenstock cleaning
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:06:59 GMT


Not really a question about vegetables, but I couldn't think of a better place to
ask this then to a bunch of veggie-chewing, sandal-wearing, whale-watching, 
granola-crunching, etc. (myself included in this of course) people.  Anyway, my
Birks smell.  Is there a way to clean the foot part of the show without hurting
it (does water damage it?)?  Thanks.


Andy Rothstein
adrothst@athena.mit.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 21 Aug 1992 07:57:48 CDT
From: Shyamala Parameswaran <U15297@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Recipe (VEGAN) Hummus
 <1992Aug20.074414.22875@btcs.bt.co.uk>

Michael Traub's hummus recipe sounds interesting. Although I've
seen several variations, the one I like best is store-bought
from a natural foods place. The reason is that no matter which
hummus recipe I use, it never comes out _white_ as the one
produced by Nashi Foods and supplied to this store. Their
ingredients list the same as Traub's except that the oil is
soybean or canola. So what's the secret?

I really dislike that pale yellowy gook.

shyamala

ps. I even tried yogurt instead of the lime-juice as one recipe
suggested but the consistency wasn't right.
From: rodneys@Apple.COM (Rodney Somerstein)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Veg restaurants in Seattle?
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:02:35 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

Does anyone know of any vegetarian restaurants in Seattle, WA?

All suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks,

-Rodney

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rodney Somerstein
rodneys@apple.com
CIS: 73167,2165
AppleLink: SOMERSTEIN1
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rodney Somerstein
rodneys@apple.com
CIS: 73167,2165
AppleLink: SOMERSTEIN1
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: anne@cs.UAlberta.CA (Anne J.R. Nield)
Subject: Re: Vegan dilemma concerning pancreatic enzymes.
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 20:27:01 GMT

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:


>The colon cleans itself out daily.  "Hardened feces" might be a problem
>in cases of severe constipation sufficient to cause bowel obstruction
>(needless to say, this is extremely rare).  There aren't any feces left
>(let alone "hardened" ones) after an evacuation.

You might not believe this until you've experienced it.  It is truly
amazing what can emerge from one's body after several days of virtual
fasting.  I won't gross the entire net out with the details....

>What kind of wonders?

Skin clears up, mouth tastes fresh, hair shines, super energy, general
goodwill toward humankind feeling, yearning for healthy foods, no
interest in caffeine and other assorted junk, lighter, more "transparent"
feeling, sounder sleep -- and everyone you know demanding to know what
you've done because you look terrific.

>If it's enhancing your health, it's because it's an expensive placebo.

Now this sounds like a true "medical science" reaction if ever I heard
one.  My doctor also assures me that this does me no good whatsoever.
He also assures me that (based on all the tests) I am in unusually
good health.  Probably has nothing to do with diet, lifestyle, etc.
Coincidence.  Right.  (Actually, it's positive thinking....)

>given the faulty thinking on which such a regimen is conceived, 
>nothing much would persuade me that it's necessary for health.

No-one said it was "necessary" for health.  It seems to be helpful
to many people, and regular cleansing/fasting is encouraged by many
societies and disciplines.  "Faulty thinking" by whose standards?

>Sometimes disabusing people of notions which don't make sense from
>a physiological point of view is considered "flaming".  So be it.

Thoughtful of you.  "Disabusing people of notions which don't make
sense" sounds a trifle egotistical -- especially since the original poster 
didn't ASK for opinions on whether what he was doing made sense to
other people.  It makes sense to HIM, based on his experience, and
he was asking a very specific question about a particular aspect of
what he is doing.  Your response to that I found interesting and
helpful.  The rest of it makes no sense to ME and I choose not to
be disabused.  But thanks anyway....

Anne

>--
From: sbhattac@wissel.GBA.NYU.EDU (Shankar Bhattacharyya)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: butter vs. margarine
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:57:11 GMT
Organization: NYU Stern School of Business

In article <1992Aug17.135050.25378@rtf.bt.co.uk> cooper@rtf.bt.co.uk (Mike Cooper) writes:
>In article <92226.27763.6175190@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> 6175190@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:

>>Butter and margarine are generally 100% fat. Granted, of various types, but
>>the statement "Butter seems to have less fat than margarine..." could be
>>misunderstood. My 2$ worth. :-)

>OK here's my fourpence worth: I thought most butter and margarines (i.e. not
>those labelled low-fat) were approximately 80% fat. Don't ask what the rest is.

You have just run into the American tendency to express fat content as the
percentage of calories from fat, without actually saying that that's how
it is expressed. The net result is that you have to ask questions to find out
just what these claims mean, and then you find that lots of people don't
actually pay any conscious attention to what the numbers mean.

For margarine it is close, as a percentage of calories, but for butter,
even on that basis, 100 % is wrong. It is a pity when that sort of
hyperbole winds up in a book. It obscures otherwise perfectly sensible
arguments, which don't need hyperbole to make a case.

- Shankar
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: uad1214@dircon.co.uk (Peter Cox)
Subject: Re: Rich & Michael
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:27:13 GMT


TED FEUERBACH (tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com) writes:

>Why so violent, Peter?  Why don't you just start beating
>up anyone that you see eating meat?


I didn't make myself very clear, I'm afraid.  I'm not
pro-violence!  But I do get very angry with the "live and
let live" argument.  Let me explain why. A few years ago, I
was lucky enough to write quite a successful book about
meat-eating / non-meat-eating, and I travelled all over the
UK promoting it for 3 months.  During that time I must have
met and debated with dozens of butchers and others involved
in the meat trade, and their common opening shot would
often be: "Why don't you just live and let live?"

In other words, "Don't ask us awkward questions - don't
expose our unsavory practices - and leave us alone so that
we can continue to murder animals."

In my view, vegetarianism is overwhelmingly a moral issue.
I would hold that there are indeed some universal moral
standards, and at the top of the list must be a general
abhorrence towards killing.

Vegetarians living in a predominantly carnivorous world
often take the "live and let live" view, because they are
conditioned to see meat-eating as normative, and anything
else as a personal deviation. Thus, one person's "decision"
to eat meat is seen as being as equally "right" as another
person's decision not to.

This is erroneous.  A universal moral wrong cannot be right
for some and wrong for others.

I hold that *all* vegetarians have an overwhelming moral
duty to "spread the word", and the "live and let live"
mind-set actively prevents this from happening.

Peter

-- 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Peter Cox
uad1214@dircon.co.uk
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: anne@cs.UAlberta.CA (Anne J.R. Nield)
Subject: Re: Vegan dilemma concerning pancreatic enzymes.
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:54:15 GMT

poirier@bnr.ca (Daniel Poirier) writes:




>I'm currently following a digestive system cleansing program 
>Unfortunately, on the third week of the program, you have to start taking
>yet another of their products: pancreatin. 

>I would not hesitate to use drugs from animal origin if there were no
>alternative, and if my life or health depended on it. This cleansing
>program is definitely enhancing my health so far (and I have barely
>scratched the surface yet), but where do I draw the line? How do other
>vegans feel about this? Or is there such a thing as a vegan alternative to
>this source of lipase, protease, and amylase? I don't know much about
>enzymes, so I wouldn't know if enzymes necessarily HAVE to be of animal
>origin.

>Any comments, suggestions, or encouragement welcome. 

I have periodically gone on a similar cleansing program -- supervised
by a naturopath here in Edmonton.  I agree it does absolute wonders,
and I have never felt better than I do after completing one (the first
few days are rough -- but worth it!)

My experience has been that the doctor in question "personalizes" the
program and uses a variety of products.  For instance, at one point
when they wanted to give me an animal-based hormone product, they asked
if I was vegetarian -- and provide an alternative in that case.  I think
you can likely do without this particular product -- or that a
substitute could be found.  I don't know if you are working with a
doctor or doing this on your own -- but perhaps someone at a health
food store could help you with this if you don't have another resource.

Good luck!

Anne

 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Fasting and Working Out?
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 04:36:36 GMT

In article <QeXlwxO00VAyIX31BJ@andrew.cmu.edu> "David F. McWade" <dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>I'm a vegan who works out with weights.  Is it possible to fast without
>being at risk of losing muscle mass?  I usually eat a lot of calories
>every day.

The answer is a definite no.  Fasting brings with it an inevitable
loss in lean body mass, and the only way to counteract that is
by ingesting sufficient carbohydrate and protein, which wouldn't
be a fast.  There is no point in even trying to fast if you don't
need to lose weight, and even that is a poor way to go about it.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: krissie@locus.com (Krissie Griffiths)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: hair thinning,
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:34:41 GMT
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California

In article <8eWIwZC00WBNI2qJ9G@andrew.cmu.edu> "Kathleen A. Rafferty" <kr22+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>Hello - I have been following a (basically) meatless diet for almost a
>year now, and don't miss it, mentally.. However, I was wondering if my
>body might miss it - particularly, my hair has been thinning out and is
>generally more brittle thn it used to be...I have been taking
>
>I was wondering- has anyone else noticed this problem?  Thanks in advance,

if anything as i went from vege to vegan my hairdresser noticed how STRONG
my hair was.  but i am not sure if that has to do with my diet or lack of
same ;-) or the fact that i use cruelty free products only, and therefore i
am not trashing my hair with all the chemicals in commercial hair care
products.

i do have my hair woven/frosted/whatever the term du jour is, and we bring it
to a very white stage, and even with this, i never notice any breaking now.

and my diet is in shambles, vegan shambles, but shambles just the same.

kg
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg