HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.jobs.offered reorganization
From: a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (Arthur Rubin)
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:13:10 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Beckman Instruments, Inc.

In <84104@bu.edu> pankaj@pub2.bu.edu (Pankaj Tyagi) writes:

>In article <1992Apr13.181615.16879@uunet.uu.net> root@dogear.spk.wa.us
>(Bob Kirkpatrick) writes: 

>..............

>    This RFD supercedes the previous issue, which did not address all of the
>    proposed changes.
>    
>    REMOVE: misc.jobs.offered
>    
>    CREATE: misc.jobs.entry    = positions offered to entrylevel applicants
>            misc.jobs.expert   = positions offered to the experienced
>            misc.jobs.recruit  = positions offered by recruitment agents
>    
>    NOT AFFECTED: misc.jobs.contract, misc.jobs.wanted, misc.jobs.misc
>    

My opinion is that they should be:
             misc.jobs.offered.entry
             misc.jobs.offered.expert
             misc.jobs.offered.recurit(er)   
--
Arthur L. Rubin: a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (work) Beckman Instruments/Brea
216-5888@mcimail.com 70707.453@compuserve.com arthur@pnet01.cts.com (personal)
My opinions are my own, and do not represent those of my employer.
Ich bin ein Virus.  Mach' mit und kopiere mich in Deine .signature.
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.culture.indian.american,soc.culture.indian
From: mick@maxine.wpi.edu (The Missing Link)
Subject: Re: Straw Poll: SCIA Revote or Not ?
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 18:50:23 GMT

In a rare fit of vernacular exposition JLM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU held forth:
:- 
:-  I would have ignored this garbage were it not for the fact that
:- my name is included in it along side some misleading statements.
:- [...]
:-  Again another example of how Mr. Vijayvargia twists things around
:- to support his arguments.


	funny statements from a man (i presume) who made such classic
	statements as: "sys admins decide whether the group should exist
	or not" and then proceeded to ask us for a vote... give up
	altruism mr.martinez... if you have a case, state it.. i for one
	have had enough of crusaders.

:- part in the original vote. Mr Vijayvargia does not seem to take
:- into account the possibility that quite a large number of people
:- (myself included) just simply chose to ignore his "query" on
:- purpose ! Hence, the so called "statistics" he generated from it
:- are worthless.

	you should really take your personal squabbles with alok to
	e-mail... you chose to "ignore" it (shows where your concerns
	are directed)... so why talk about it now ? (and these large
	numbers, what are they ? 5 ? 10 ? 100000 ? are they sys admins?
	net-godmen maybe ?).

:-  The so called "second group" consists of Alok and a handful of his
:- cronies.

	and the first consists of you and a few others who choose to
	vent their frustrations in this fashion (one among whom
	considers calling a person a "gay" to be humour !). that leaves
	the majority of us lesser vociferous people spectating and
	wondering when all this unnecessary noise is going to end !

	cheers,

	- ravi


'''---```---^^^^^^-----#-----~~~~~----'''------~~~~-----````~~~---------=\ /=
.sig (n): a piece of mail with a fool at one  :  Ravi Narayan, CS, WPI   (0)
          end and flames at the other. (C).   :  DoD #540 - soon ....     H
   o     _          _           _           _ :         _           _     H
 _/\_> =| |========| |=========| |=========| |=========| |=========| |=======
0,> /0,=|w|,,=====,|,|.,===,,==| |,,===.,==|.|..======w| |..,,.====| |====,,=
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: SCIA ( Is a new CFV really needed ?)
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 23:59:53 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.140729.9145@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>Who are Henry, Ken and Dennis ?

Henry Spencer, Ken Thompson, and Dennis Ritchie. The authors of (respectively)
C News (with Geoff), UNIX, and C.

>Don't you think a proposer of the group which exists should have some
>criterion to evaluate whether a revote should be conducted ?

It's never been needed before. Even when I was the proposer (which has
happened twice, after a year or so had passed and time for reorganization
had come).

>Why is it so unreasonable to require a 2/3 majority for such a case, where
>the group is functioning quite reasonably ?

Because it was, apparently, created in violation of the guidelines. At
least that's what several people whose opinions I respect are claiming,
and I have no reason to doubt them. Particularly given the opinions I've
started developing about the people on the other side.

>Think about it, we are talking about possible removal of such a group.
>The group may or may not pass again. 

Them's the breaks. I've had groups fail, too. It's not a big deal. Maybe
you can wait until the usa or us hierarchy gets under weigh. Maybe even
help create it...

>My proof of integrity is that I am conducting the straw poll to determine
>whether enough people feel the allegations are serious enough to
>warrant a revote.

I'm sorry, this just doesn't follow. "Your Honor, as proof of the defendent's
integrity he held his own jury hearings".

>Now did you get the clue ?

Sorry, Kent's still got mine.
-- 
/F{findfont exch scalefont setfont}def /S{moveto show}def /T{/Times-Roman F}def
6 T (Have you hugged your wolf today?)468 20 S 9 T (Taronga Park BBS)24 35 S 10
/Courier F(`-_-')488 40 S ( 'U` )488 30 S 6 T (+1 713 568 0480 2400/n/8/1)24 27
S (+1 713 568 1032 Trailblazer)24 20 S 12 T (Peter da Silva)24 45 S showpage
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: SCIA ( Is a new CFV really needed ?)
Date: 17 Apr 92 14:34:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr17.005303.21396@cco.caltech.edu>, tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
> 
> >Do you mean to say that I should not go forward with the straw poll
> >to make a recommendation whether a new vote is required ?
> 
> Yes.  That's exactly what I mean.  Your approval is neither relevant nor
> required, and your persistent insistence that you somehow *own* this group
> is doing nothing but alienating potential voters.  (For instance, should you
> continue this path, I would seriously consider voting against the group 
> merely to illustrate an example for those who would follow in your 
> footsteps.  I've nothing against the group in particular, but this kind of
> warping of the voting process should not be given any leeway.)
> 
> I hope that clears things up.
> 

Thanks for clearing things up. However I am amazed to note that your
criterion for voting for or against a group is  a person associated with the
group and not the charter of the group.

Very shallow criterion indeed.

We can do without your vote, Mr. Lynch.

> Tim Lynch

Alok
From: wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu (David Wald)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 7 Apr 92 14:51:26 GMT
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT

In article <axolotl.702613581@syzygy> axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au writes:
>Why should we consider the opinions of the uninformed?  Why should
>people who don't know anything about manga tell us what it is and
>isn't, and where it should fit in the (already totally illogical)
>namespace?

Because the uninformed will be voting on your newsgroup.  If you don't
take the opinions of the uninformed into account, they may vote
against your group.  Take me, for example:

Given the discussion so far, I still fail to understand how creating
rec.arts.comics.manga would declare manga to be a subcategory of, less
important than, or morally inferior to American and British comics.
These seem to be the major objections to the name rec.arts.comics.manga,
which to me seems the only sensible one.
Therefore:

  1) If the CFV is for rec.arts.manga, I will vote against it.
  2) If the CFV is for rec.arts.comics.manga, I will vote for it.
  3) If the CFV calls for rec.arts.comics to be renamed to
     rec.arts.comics.misc, I will not oppose it, and may vote for it.

Since there are already subgroups to rec.arts.comics, the last seems
reasonable to me even if rec.arts.comics.manga is not created.

-David
--
============================================================================
David Wald                                           wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu
   "Blessed are the peacocks, for they shall be called sonship of God"
             -- Matt 5:9, from a faulty QuickVerse 2.0
============================================================================
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: karleen sue davis <ksdavis@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: rec.games.mud.social 
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 20:45:32 -0500

The proposed newsgroup rec.games.mud.social will NOT only be a haven
for the "Tiny*" people, IMHO.  I personally only play combat muds, but
even there (more on LPmuds than on Dikus) we have "social problems."
I was hoping rec.games.mud.social would be a place to discuss social
ISSUES, not necessarily social muds.  The argument that we don't need 
to split rec.games.mud into groups named after each separate type of mud
is valid; in the case of rec.games.mud.social, it's the first step in
splitting rec.games.mud into "interest" groups.

By the way, I agree that rec.games.mud.announce should be moderated,
because we've already got someone competent and willing to moderate 
it.  And as others have already pointed out, he'll be able keep the
postings genuine (i.e., from gods/admin, not players).

Karleen
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: SCIA (A violation of net guidelines)
Date: 17 Apr 92 15:52:52 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:

>In article <1992Apr7.133125.10521@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner) writes:
>> In <1992Apr6.203727.26072@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>> 
>> >An official RFD was posted for SCIA on October 19, 1991. This resulted in
>> >posting a CFV on November 19, 1991.
>> 
>> A vote that is considered to be invalid and doesn't count.
>> 
>First the vote has not been officially invalidated.

    I would like to point out that any group not listed in Spaf's
listing of official groups is an unofficial group. Thus your vote must
be considered to be invalid because s.c.i.a doesn't currently appear on
Spaf's list. Any questions?

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | 
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   | "DON'T TOUCH IT!! It's the History Eraser
 Mac Database Developer     |  Button, you fool!"  -- Ren
 Dartmouth Medical School   |
From: scogpw@thor.cf.ac.uk (Gordon Walker)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Mandalaband
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:03:56 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College at Cardiff
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

In article <22005.9204151532@thor.cf.ac.uk> scogpw@thor.cf.ac.uk (Gordon Walker) writes:
|In article <1992Apr13.111058.6056@ericsson.se> etmmato@sunshine9.ericsson.se (Marcel van Tongeren) writes:
||Hi,
||
||A couple of years ago I heard this great album of the Mandalaband "The Eye of Wendor"........

Oooops - sorry new.groups, I've just realised the original posting
included this wrong group! (Well, I suppose MAndalaband *were* a
group.....!)
Gordon
From: rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: The soc.personals.ads proposal
Date: 12 Apr 92 03:47:31 GMT
Reply-To: rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Dept., Madison, WI

The administrator of the alt.personals Anonymous Contact Service has just
announced that the ACS is going away.  This may make the soc.personals.ads
proposal irrelevant unless someone else volunteers to take it over and
is willing to alter it to service the soc.personals groups as well.

Any comment, Dave?

-- 
Michael Rawdon
rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu
University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Department, Madison, WI

Is vi a more advanced version of ai?
Xref: sparky news.groups:10126 alt.rock-n-roll:9683
From: etmmato@sunshine9.ericsson.se (Marcel van Tongeren)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.rock-n-roll
Subject: 10cc
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:02:39 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Telecom, Stockholm, Sweden

Hi,

Last year there was some talk about a new 10cc album. How about this are
they working on it or are they split up again. Last time I heard some new
things of Eric Stewart was on the Freudiana album. Did he some other things
after this ? Has someone any news about this great musician.

Thanks,

Marcel.
Date: 10 Apr 92 05:33:33 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga vs. rec.arts.comics.manga
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
 >    We are going to take a second and focus in on this particular
 >statement. If you agree that comics and manga are essentially the same
 >form/medium/genre, how can you not see the logic behind placing them
 >into the same newsgroup sub-hierarchy?

We can.  rec.arts!


--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.
Xref: sparky news.groups:9932 misc.jobs.misc:3408
From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick)
Newsgroups: news.groups,misc.jobs.misc
Subject: RFD: misc.jobs.*
Keywords: alterations to newsgroup(s)
Date: 10 Apr 92 00:50:05 GMT
Organization: Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA

This RFD supercedes the previous issue, which was posted prematurely.

REMOVE: misc.jobs.offered

CREATE: misc.jobs.entry    = positions offered to new graduates
        misc.jobs.expert   = positions offered to the experienced
        misc.jobs.recruit  = positions offered by recruitment agents

NOT AFFECTED: misc.jobs.contract, misc.jobs.wanted, misc.jobs.misc

Due to the increased volume of postings, and the selective nature of
the jobs-offered postings, an expansion of the categories is needed.
Many have expressed difficulty in locating posts which target their
skill levels, and discussions have expressed a desire to separate
agency (recruiter) postings from the employer-direct posts.

Comments and discussion are being solicited for the standard period.
-- 
bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us                 "...we found that in space, no one can
Bob Kirkpatrick                        hear you scream. In 1992 we find that
Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA       on earth, everyone can."   --alienIII
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: SCIA: The new CFV... is it needed ?
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:38:11 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

<JLM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> writes:


> There will be a CFV to decide whether S.C.I.A. is officially
>created or not.

> Mr. David Lawrence will not be responsible for the CFV.

    He's not supposed to be. He has enough headaches moderating
news.announce.newgroups. 

> I have been informed that the reason why the Nov/Dec vote
>conducted by Mr. Vijayvargia is not being carried by many
>sites or even listed among the Usenet groups, is because
>it was considered invalid as the result of all the irregularities
>that took place during said vote. All this has being dicussed
>to exhaustion in this newsgroup and I don't intend to start again.

    This is true, in fact s.c.i.a was dropped by Dartmouth over a month
ago. 

> I have also been informed that if this upcoming vote is done
>according to the guidelines, the results (whatever they may be)
>will be accepted as valid.

    This certainly seems like a good reason to hold another CFV to me.

> For that reason, as soon as the CFV is posted, neither the vote-taker
>nor I will say anything further on the subject, other than post
>standard vote-acknowledgements as prescribed by the guidelines.

    I would just like to point out for the record that ONCE THE CFV HAS
BEEN POSTED THERE IS TO BE NO MORE DISCUSSION ON THE GROUP. The
discussion period set by the RFD has ended with the posing of the CFV
and so should the discussion.


--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | "When you get right down do it there is only
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   |  one thing that matters here...
 Mac Database Developer     |                       I Have Mob Ties!"
 Dartmouth Medical School   |      -Mario Cuomo (played by Phil Hartman)
Date: 10 Apr 92 05:41:53 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner) writes:
 >rec.arts.comics.japanese is an option but rec.arts.comics.manga says the
 >same thing really.

rec.arts.comics.manga reads "rec.arts.comics.comics", and is pretty
meaningless.  But while manga means comics, it just happens that they
are different in most important aspects -- certainly, different enough
for them to sit alongside each other in a hierarchy.

 >Manga may rate its own forum but it is not (based on the charter) anything
 >but a different TYPE of comic.

It seems that the charter is too vague on this point.  If news.groups
requires it to be changed for rec.arts.manga to pass, it will be changed.


--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: cathyf@is.rice.edu (Catherine Anne Foulston)
Subject: Re: I thought "manga" was a tropical fruit
Keywords: fresh perspective
Organization: Rice University
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 03:42:20 GMT

In article <axolotl.702975786@syzygy> axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au writes:
>forbes@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (scott.forbes) writes:
> >I don't know what a "manga" is.

>What's a "gaffa".

A really bad name for a newsgroup.
-- 
Cathy Foulston + Rice University + Network & Systems Support + cathyf@rice.edu

Statements of the type "I'm new to the net" are almost always superfluous.
From: dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (David C Blume)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:41:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: wdl.1992Apr9.224154.4325
Organization: Loral Western Development Labs

Yes! Brian and Jeff seem pretty level headed!
 
hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
>moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (The Napoleon of Crime) writes:
>
>>I would recommend against it at this time; I have seen almost no spill-over
>>of manga discussions into rec.arts.comics, which is where this would be
>>discussed in the usual Usenet heirarchy -- and this makes me suspicious of
>>the popularity of such a newsgroup.  I think you need to run a test on 
>>a fully-propogated rec. group first to see what amount of traffic you're
>>actually going to get.
>
>>Suggestion: try posting in rec.arts.comics with the keyword "MANGA: " at the
>>beginning of the subject line for a month or two, and we'll see how the
>>traffic stacks up to everything else there.
>
>    A number of people stated that they think their manga discussions
>would get lost in the normal rec.arts.comics traffic.

The traffic on rec.arts.comics overwhelms me.  Teach me about the kill-file.

>                                                      Oh, yeah, and
>manga aren't comics, so why would they talk about them in r.a.c. 

That's baited.  The argument is that it is mis-leading to put manga under
comics because *discussion* in the comics group tends to be western, and
so it is unintuitive to find a manga group under that.  Like finding
cubism.impressionism.

>                                                                 In fact
>I remember one person saying he would post a manga related discussion to
>rec.arts.anime before he posted it to r.a.c.

That was me, Brian. Before alt.manga it was the rule rather than the exception
to put your manga posts on rec.arts.anime and soc.culture.japan.  Those
readers were the ones who had similar interests.  And the ones who knew
what the connotation of "H" was.  It had nothing to do with pride or
prejudice.

So, as far as determining the need to for rec.arts.{comics.}manga, please
refer to archived posts from alt.manga and rec.arts.anime. 

BTW: How do either of you feel about my post where I tried to sum up the
ideas of the two sides?  Was I wrong?  Why are people continuing the
argument over the name so vehemently?


--David
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| David Blume            | When you're holding a hammer, everything |
| dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com | looks like a nail. --Anonymous.          |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
Date: 16 Apr 92 01:20:27 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: r.a.manga vs r.a.c.manga - A Plea for Sanity
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

cudcv@warwick.ac.uk (Rob McMahon) writes:
 >It might be to you.  Some people think it's rather important to keep it all
 >consistent.  I shall be voting no if the CFV calls for rec.arts.manga.

Why is rec.arts.manga inconsistent?  rec.arts.manga is consistent
with at least seven democratically determined naming precedents.

If some net."god" doesn't think that democratically determined
precedents should be respected, that opinion should be included in
the newsgroup creation guidelines.


--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.
Date: 10 Apr 92 05:51:23 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Another problem with rec.arts.comics.{manga/japan}
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
 >The rest of us want a reasonably ordered
 >namespace, and think it's important enough to vote NO if the proposal has an
 >illogical name. I'm in the latter category. I have no problem whatsoever with
 >a manga group in the mainstream hierarchy, but will vote NO if the group is
 >misnamed, in the hope that the proponents will then return with an appropriate
 >name. I don't hate you or your group at all. I just want the name right.

The "culture" associated with manga culture has almost no overlap with
the associated (rec.arts.) comics culture.  We've used "comics" to
describe manga because it's an available approximation, and not necessarily
an accurate one.   There just isn't enough of an association with comics
to warrant association with it in the namespace (as described separately).

Further problems with rec.arts.comics.{manga/japan}:  Let's say that
traffic on "gag" manga (roughly analogous to Doonesbury, Far Side, Zippy,
etc.) warrants a new mainstream group.  As there is almost no overlap
in the readership of rec.arts.comics.strips and the "gag" strips, a
separate group would be warranted.

With rec.arts.manga, it would be rec.arts.manga.gag
(or rec.arts.manga.strips).

With rec.arts.comics.manga or no mainstream manga group, it would be either
rec.arts.comics.manga.strips or rec.arts.comics.strips.manga.  THAT'S
an ugly namespace.


(The same example applies to comics.marketplace, comics.underground, or
any other possible subgroup that has been discussed there.)


--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.