HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:12:40 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Al Gore's religious beliefs

Dan:

I can't give you quotes on goddess worship and Al Gore, but George Will
had a pretty good column today on why Gore's book shows that he
is not qualified to be president (and Will is *no* friend of Bush!)

Love INC,
         --Kerry
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Date:         Sat, 12 Sep 1992 01:36:03 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: OK, YOU GUYS ASKED FOR THIS....

Well, Theresa:

I think I get (and agree with) your point, but please don't forget
that the Catholic church is not a denomination.

Love INC,
         --kerry
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Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 08:10:24 -0700
From:         MARK DRAKE <DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Bishops' examples

>Speaking to Orthodox people (via another list) I understand the church
>decides by opening up a discussion and contemplating the matter before
>deciding.

	Also don't forget that most of these topics aren't new.  Paul himself
deals, for example, with the question of whether or not Christ was physically
resurected.  So the discussion started 1500+ years ago.  That is a long time
for the Spirit to be able to work in the church and bring forth what is
orthodox.

Mark
Drake@asuchm.la.asu.edu
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 09:53:14 EDT
From:         Lon Mendelsohn <LMENDELS@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU>
Subject:      Favorite Scripture

Here's one of my favorite OT scripture passages.  I'll post one of my NT
favorites in a day or so.

************************************************************************
Hosea 2:14-23:

 "Therefore, behold, I will allure her,
   and bring her into the wilderness,
   and speak tenderly to her.
  And there I will give her her vineyards,
   and make the Valley of Achor a door of hope.
  And there she shall answer as in the days of her youth,
   as at the time when she came out of the land of Egypt.

 "And in that day, says the LORD, you will call me, `My husband,'
  and no longer will you call me `My Baal.'  For I will remove the
  names of the Ba'als from her mouth, and they shall be mentioned
  by name no more.  And I will make for you a covenant on that
  day with the beasts of the field, the birds of the air, and the
  creeping things of the ground; and I will abolish the bow, the
  sword, and war from the land; and I will make you lie down in
  safety.  And I will betroth you to me for ever; I will betroth
  you to me in righteousness and in justice, in steadfast love,
  and in mercy.  I will betroth you to me in faithfulness; and you
  shall know the LORD.

 "And in that day, says the LORD,
   I will answer the heavens
   and they shall answer the earth;
  and the earth shall answer the grain, the wine, and the oil,
   and they shall answer Jezreel;
   and I will sow him for myself in the land.
  And I will have pity on Not pitied,
   and I will say to Not my people, `You are my people';
   and he shall say `You are my God.'"

One of the reasons why I really like this passage is that it's one
of the two passages that my wife and I had read at our wedding.

Shalom,

Lon Mendelsohn
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 08:38:33 BST
From:         "Jonathan Wheeler" <JFW1@IBM-B.RUTHERFORD.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Novosibirsk contack?
              10 Sep 1992 10:16:00 CDT from <B882SA@EDU.UTA.UTARLG>

I will send a list of several Internet addresses to Seig.  I have not sent
it to the list as I assume that it is not of general interest.

Yours sincerely

Jonathan Wheeler
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:01:47 EST
From:         "PHILLIP A. HALIBURTON" <Z$T@FCCJ.BITNET>
Subject:      NEED TO FIND OUT HOW TO GET THE CHRISTIA INDEX

DEAR LISTSERV OWNER,

                    PLEASE SEND ME THE INFO ON HOW TO GET THE CHRISTIA INDEX
LIST PLEASE.

                     YOUR BROTHER IN CHRIST,

                                            PHILLIP A. HALIBUTON
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 12:35:43 CDT
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      SPIRITUAL GIFTS

This post is one which interests me also...
I have studied those scripture passages in the past, and am
fascinated at the mighty power of God that allows these folks
to have such gifts as "speaking in tongues" and etc.
There are more gifts than just that one... here are some of
the ones I humbly believe that God grants to those who are
willing to use them for HIS glory.
1. the ability to listen to other folks' situations and give
   sound advice, without the audacity to condemn these folks
   they listen to.
   (Carol Nemec has this gift, I believe...)
2. The abililty to encourage others without the slightest
   indication that they did this...
   (My Grandmom did this ... with a poem she wrote me...._)
3. The ability to do several tasks at one time and not get
   confused as to "what the heck do I do next"???
   (My Piano instructor is endowed with this one... geez...
   I actually am a bit jealous!!! :)
4. Musical ablilties, poetic abilities...etc.
   I don't consider myself to be the best steward of this
   blessed gift of creating song, and playing song... or
   even singing it... but I have been blessed with this
   talent to read those iddy biddy dots on a piece of Marching
   music that's still in handwritten musical notation!!!
   (this can be a chore... 'specially if the person who
   wrote it makes his quarter notes look like eighths... and
   his half notes look like quarters!!! )
   I can't just stop practicing/rehearsing/performing
   music, because to do this, would be takin' this blessed
   gift for granted....with my eysight???? NOT A CHANCE!
   Gotta use what HE gives you... or he can snatch it from you
   and GIVE IT TO another person who'll use it!!!
   THAT'S SCRIPTURE.
   (Parable of the talents...)
   ----
   MORE MAIL to check... God Bless you all
   "G"

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan)
Subject: Re: Spiritual Gifts
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 23:45:45 GMT

In article <9209071738.AA27056@athena.QUALCOMM.COM> jstahley@QUALCOMM.COM writes:

>Can anyone define what spiritual gifts are and how to tell which spiritual
>gifts I may have?

A spiritual gift is something given by the Spirit. There are lists of
such gifts in a few places in the New Testament, but I don't think there
is any particular reason to suppose that the grace of God never operates
in different ways. I don't know offhand where all such lists are, but:

  Galatians 5:22-3 ("fruits of the Spirit")
  I Corinthians 12-14 (not just lists, but perhaps the definitive guide
                       to spiritual gifts)
  Mark 16:17-18 (but this is absent from many reliable manuscripts, and
                 thought by many not to be part of Mark as originally
                 written)

are the only ones I can find.

Perhaps I should be a little more restrictive in my definition: A spiritual
gift is something given by the Spirit for the purpose of helping to bring
about God's purpose on earth; whether by helping the individual in his walk
with God, or by building up the church, or by impressing non-Christians,
or whatever.
Some Christians prefer to reserve the term for the more unusual gifts:
things like prophecy, "speaking in tongues", healing. If you want to use
the term in this way, fine; but I don't think there's any Scriptural
justification for dividing them up like that.

I don't know of any reliable way to tell whether you have been given any
particular gift. The Bible doesn't seem to say much about that. It does,
though, say that individual manifestations of what seem to be spiritual
gifts should be "tested" carefully, but seems more concerned with how to
tell whether someone else who appears to have a gift really has it.
-- 
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 17:37:26 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      wrong author

I was thinking of posting a comment on an essay by Jesse Carnes.
But I have been reminded that the essay in question was really by a
totally different listmember (well, maybe not totally different)
instead.

Whew! Lucky thing I didn't post it.

Sorry, Jesse.

 Yours,
 James Kiefer
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: laperla@byron.u.washington.edu (Juan Perla)
Subject: Favorite Scripture  
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 09:00:05 GMT

Take My yoke upon you, and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble
in heart; and YOU SHALL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.
 
for My yoke is easy, and My load is light."

Shalom,
juan


-- 
Juan Manuel Perla                                    University of Washington
laperla@u.washington.edu             University Computing Services Operations
=============================================================================
"Ha!  Your Leaping Tiger Kung Fu is no match for my Frightened Piglet Style!"
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:51:00 EDT
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From:         LIZ MOREAU <EMOREAU@UMASSD.BITNET>
Subject:      Praise Report

Just received the following on a prayer line I belong to.

Ray had cancer.  The docters were not sure if they could do anything
for him, but wanted to open him up and then decide what to do from
there.  When they opened him up, there was no trace of cancer in his
body.

Praise God!!!!

                                                Liz
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 19:35:10 CDT
Reply-To:     bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com
From:         Brad Kaiser <bradk%isdgsm@RTSG.MOT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Absolution

I really ought to go home (it's late here), but I can't resist writing
one last post today.  In the thread on the Catholic theology of the
Sacrament of Reconciliation, three list members wrote some very
similar things:

Tim King writes:

>> Okay... so what about the guy who knows what he believes, doesn't agree
>> with Catholic teaching on every point, but believes that the Catholic
>> church is *a* true church?  In other words, Catholicism is not a
>> cult.

Gareth McCaughan writes:

>> But suppose someone considers that there is *no* church on earth which
>> is "the true Church"; no church on earth that has no false dogmas.

Wolfgang Hutter writes:

>> I know lots of people who are members of
>> the RCC, but reject these dogmas. (Maybe you've heard of Drewermann in
>> Germany who even denies the resurrection and who finds quite some
>> support from RC Christians). They honestly believe these doctrines to be
>> false but see no reason to leave the Church.

I find this rather shocking.  What all three of these gentlemen seem
to be *assuming* is that there is some possibility that *NO* True
Church even exists.  (Okay, Wolfgang is describing others who
apparently believe that; he didn't really say he believed that
himself.)

What could that mean?  Obviously *all* churches cannot be true; *TWO*
churches cannot both be true if they disagree with each other on
anything concerning faith and morals.  There is one God, and only one.
Jesus prayed that the church would be one, just as He and His Father
are one.  He said there would be one flock, and One Shepherd.

So is there *NO* True Church at all?  Has God deserted us?  Was this
business about the jaws of hell not prevailing against His church [Mt
16:18] just a lie?

If we really believe that, we shouldn't be Christians at all.  "For
peace of mind, investigate the Islamic faith." ;-)

Finally, Wolfgang writes:

>> It seems to be safer outside the Catholic Church than inside! ;-)

I'm not sure I find that especially humorous.  "Safety" isn't a
criterion the Bible recommends for Christians; the Bible says that
whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his
live for Christ's sake will save it.  We seek His Truth and Grace, not
our safety.

In Christ's Peace,

Brad Kaiser
(bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com)

  "Hatred destroys.  Only love creates."
            -- St. Maximilian Kolbe, shortly before his arrest and
               martyrdom at the hands of the Nazis.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 12 Sep 1992 23:44:29 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Al Gore's religious beliefs
              13 Sep 1992 03:18:30 GMT from <kilroy@GBORO.GLASSBORO.EDU>

Darren:

Texe Marrs is the author of more than 20 Christian books on various
topics.  He is a retired career officer in the U.S. Air Force, and
has taught American defense policy, international affairs, and
political science at the University of Texas in Austin.  He is
the head of Living Truth Ministries in Austin, Texas.

He had done extensive work on Jose Arguelles long before anyone
else had ever heard of the "harmonic convergence."  He has done some
very good work on the New Age movement, though IMHO he relies too much
on Constance Cumbey.  Nonetheless, much of his work does stand on its
own.  And he hasn't said anything about Al Gore that Al Gore can deny,
without refuting his (Gore's) own words.  (BTW, isn't refuting what he
said about Gore by reference to James Watt some kind of logical fallacy?)

Since you asked.

Love INC,
         --Kerry
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 08:45:05 -0700
From:         "Steven E. Hoell" <seh@NEUTRON.PHYSICS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Tradition (was Re: Second parousia in the past?)

Nabil writes:

>Here is another verse that supports the authenticity of Tradition :

>   Acts 20:35    "I have shown you in every way, by laboring like this, that
>   you must support the weak. And remember the words of the Lord Jesus, that
                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   He said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.' "
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>To put things in context, St. Paul is speaking to the elders of the church
>of Ephesus. The underlined part of the verse is quoted by St. Paul. To the
>amazement of the anti-Tration folks, this proves that it is authentic since
>this quote cannot be found anywhere in any of the four gospels. Morover, St.
>Paul did not hear it firsthand, but it was probably passed to him by another
>disciple. This is Tradition, pure, plain and simple! Scripture is an essential
>part of Tradition, but it is not the whole thing. So in terms of set theory,
>Scripture is a subset of Tradition.

>Irene pasi,

>Nabil

>PS. I'm quoting from NKJV.

Paul puts it even more directly to the Thessalonians:

   II Thess. 2:15   "So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings
   we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter." (NIV)

The NIV footnotes the word "teachings" in the passage with the statement
"or traditions." I submit that not all such "teachings" are found in the
Bible explicitly.

Most CHRISTIA  members would agree that the Holy Spirit authored the
Scriptures. My point is that He didn't stop there. He went on to build
the Body of Christ and continues this magnificent work to this day. Jesus
Himself made an important promise which the Early Church laid hold of:

    John 16:13   "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide
    you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will tell you
    what is yet to come." (NIV again)

Do you think He waited until the Reformation (several centuries later)?



Steve Hoell			seh@neutron.physics.arizona.edu
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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 14:00:00 CDT
From:         Sieg A U R I C H <B882SA@UTARLG.UTA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: More Arbitrary.

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From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
Subject: More Arbitrary.


I know the Webster definition, however, in everyday speech, the word
"arbitrary" has a huge measure of randomness to it.  Most people think that
an arbitrary decision means one that is done "just because."  You are
correct about the word in its absolute meaning, however, I still object to
it in the context we are discussing because of the connotation placed on it
by most people.

Dan Graham
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:35:00 +1000
From:         Ken Diefenbach <DIEFENBAK@TOPAZ.UCQ.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Praise report/Update on Kyle

Folks:
      Since the last report we have had a number of very _interesting_ things
happen at our place.

      1) Infection showed up on a blood test Kyle had last Tuesday

      2) This caused the orthopaedic surgeon to request an ultrasound scan of
         the hip. Radiologist suspected infection - (thought he saw some pus
         in the "photo")

      3) This usually means "septic hip". Which can permanently damage the hip
         within 2 days. Surgeon relates all this, saying that presented with
         this, normal practice would be to do a full operation to clear the
         stuff, meaning traction etc afterwards.

         As he relates this Kyle is running & jumping around his surgery (albeit
         limping as he does it). So instead, Kyle went into hospital on Thursday
         night, and they "aspirated" (ie drew some of the fluid) from the hip.
         Lyn slept with him overnight.

After all of this, Lyn & I were not too great. We'd both immediately given the
lot of it over to God... "When we reach the end of our hoarded resources..."

Kyle came home doped out on Friday, and crawled around on Saturday morning for
a while. Then a switch got flicked somewhere and now _he_ seems almost fully
recovered. _Fine_for_him_.

Lyn meanwhile has stretched a ligament in her shoulder lumping him around while
he couldn't walk, and has to undergo a series of ECGs for an irregularity in her
heartbeat. (This first showed up when she was pregnant with Kyle).

But Praise the Lord Kyle is chirpy and the limp is almost gone. And even better
we're off for 3 and a half weeks holidays on Friday, so I'll be nomail from
Thursday afternoon......

For all the sundry bits and pieces we are trusting God. (Don't have much of a
a choice really ;) )

Ken Diefenbach
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Date:         Sat, 12 Sep 1992 10:57:01 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Al Gore's (New Age) religious beliefs
              12 Sep 1992 08:36:49 -0500 from <ohoward@MATT.KSU.KSU.EDU>

Todd:

I also noticed the similarity between new age doctrine and the Rapture.
The strange thing is that, if you read their materials carefully,
you will note that there is a lot of agreement with fundamentalist
belief about the eventual end of the world--except they have the sides
reversed, and they leave out the ending (where their side ends up in
the pit.)  Go figure.

Love INC,
         --Kerry
From: v107smub@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Balakrishn Nair)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Lutherans
Date: 16 Sep 92 02:28:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


Hi there,

I would like to know about Lutherans as distinguished from 
Catholics and Protestants.  What is it that makes them 
different from Catholics and Protestants ?  Are they
more conservative ? 

I hope that I am posting to the appropriate newsgroup.

An E-mail reply would be deeply appreciated.  Thanks.

Bala.
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Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 14:00:42 DST
From:         Claus Tondering <ct@DDE.DK>
Subject:      Re: ????? on the Second Coming
              92 5:59 am

Jesse writes:
>
> Paul has already stated that the Gospel had been preached in the whole
> world in His day.

Where does Paul state that?

And how could it possibly be true? There had been no missionaries to
America (unless you are a Mormon :-)), to Greenland, to Australia.

---
Claus Tondering
Dansk Data Elektronik A/S, Herlev, Denmark
E-mail: ct@dde.dk
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 10:19:09 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject:      No Votes

Today is Friday and I've received no votes for the prayer day.

Shalom,
Memo.
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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 12:57:00 CDT
From:         BKCOBB@LIFE.UAMS.EDU
Subject:      arbitrary

Dear Dan;

>Now, I have heard some posters say that Calvinists and predestinarians
>believe God makes arbitrary choices of those whom will be saved and lost.
>This is not true.  I have never heard or read anybody say that, except
>those who are deriding the doctrine of predestination.

>God is never, absolutely never, arbitrary.  His choices are final and
>perfect, and make perfect sense ... to Him.  We are not privileged to see
>His decision making processes.  Juse because we are blind to that doesn't
>make it arbitrary.

>To me, it is pure blasphemy to even think or suggest that God is arbitrary
>in His choices of the elect.  Surely, it may seem that way to us, but we
>are feeble indeed in our abilities to understand the divine.

According to Webster's dictionary, the primary meaning of the word arbitrary
is "depending on individual discretion".  The word election, as I understand it,
means that God chooses people to certain ends.  If he doesn't do it based on
his own discretion, pray tell, whose discretion does he base it on?  The word
arbitrary accurately describes the choice that God makes (assuming of course,
one buys into the Calvinist/predestinarian dogma.)

Oh, BTW, I don't think disagreeing with you makes one a blasphemer.

Brian
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 08:41:10 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: ????? on the Second Coming

Dear Claus ;

Did I send a similar post like this one to you already?
I am not sure.

Anyway see Col 1:23
Ro 16:26
1 Tim 3:16

Jesse Carnes
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