HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer)
Subject: TANGENT: meeting non-Christians where they're at
Date: 19 Nov 92 06:57:25 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Nov16.200434.26131@cbnews.cb.att.com> ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman) writes:
>They didn't hear it [the truth] because the truth wasn't presented in such a 
>way that it addressed them as individuals.   
>
>...They used Scriptural ideas, but more importantly, they
>talked to me about what *I* believed rather than what *they* believed.
>People tend to hold on to their basic beliefs pretty tenaciously.  
>And they don't abandon them just because someone tells them that
>they're wrong.  I had to be shown in very specific, detailed ways
>how what I believed was an inadequate foundation upon which to build
>a life.  

This is how it worked for me too. First I had to get out of 
the mindset that I could vouchsafe my salvation (basically
earn my salvation) by being a "Good Christian (tm)". That
Christ and I did, took several years. Then I had to get out
of the mindset that "I tried Christ and it didn't work".  That
a coworker helped me with...til the wee hours sometimes. (In
retrospect I see Christ working all through this process...at
the time, I didn't :-)

>...But really, at least initially,
>I met with a bunch of Christians who spent a lot more time talking
>about Sartre and Camus than they did Jesus.  And that was *precisely*
>what I needed.  I had to come to the understanding that what I 
>believed *didn't* work before I could come to the understanding that
>I needed to believe something else.  

For me too. Think about it in marketing terms -- the best product
in the world won't sell unless the customer perceives a need for
it. In fact, many consumers buy things that don't need - but the
ads, etc, make them PERCEIVE a need.

Yes, everyone NEEDS Christ. But many people don't PERCEIVE their need.

(I do not mean to imply that marketing==evangelism and I most
definately do not want to encourage 'hard sells' or 'premature
births'. Just making the one point.)

>It doesn't matter [what it is a non-Christian believes in
>currently]. The point is that
>such beliefs lead to hell, and people need to believe in Jesus to
>be saved.  But everybody is already standing on *some* kind of 
>foundation - a foundation of presuppositions, assumptions about the 
>nature of the world we live in and about themselves, notions of right 
>and wrong, etc.  And until you show people that their foundation is
>made of sand they're not going to have any motivation to stand on the
>rock.  

I hope you don't mind the editing, Andrew; I just wanted to say: Amen!

-jen

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: nestabro@nova.gmi.edu (Noel Estabrook)
Subject: Re: What do you do when your child thinks Metallica is cool?
Organization: GMI Engineering&Management Institute, Flint, MI
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 01:05:45 GMT

burtp@aix.rpi.edu (Philip Nason Burt) writes:

>In article <nestabro.721848102@nova> nestabro@nova.gmi.edu (Noel Estabrook) writes:
>>I do.  I can attack just about any non-Christian philosophy with Scripture.
>              ^^^^^^
>Is this what we should be doing???  If I "attacked" every
>non-Christian (enemy??) philosophy in my dorm, what hope would there
>be that I ever win any of them to Christ?

You're right, of course.  Bad choice of words.  Forgive me.

>This guy was actualy checking out their altars!!!  I even fault jason
>for saying "know your enemy".  I would phrase it "know your fellow
>human being"  That person with an Ayn Rand (sp?) book is not your
>enemy, but a fellow sinner.  Love them!

Agreed.  But love them enough to share the Truth with them.

--
Noel Estabrook			|	Your religion is what you
nestabro@nova.gmi.edu         --|--     do after the sermon is over.
Instructional Design & Tech.    |     
Michigan State University       |               Romans 12:2
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: hill@spot.Colorado.EDU (Michael Hill)
Subject: Re: Christmas music recommendations
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:17:23 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.145749.11380@oakhill.sps.mot.com> millerm@oakhill.sps.mot.com writes:
>One of my ALL-TIME favorites....
>
>John Denver with the Muppet's Christmas album...
>
>Fozzy Bear & JD's rendition of "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas"
>
>Great!!

Altho I think the Miss Piggy/Kermit interaction in "We Wish You a Merry
Christmas" takes the cake!!  :^)

>Other albums...MWS Christmas Album, Imperials Christmas Album

My own favorite is simply entitled "Christmas", and features Whiteheart,
Steve Taylor, the Winans, Geoff Moore & the Distance, and Margaret Becker.
It contains the most awesome rendition of several songs that I've ever
heard.  Most notable:  "Home for the Holidays", by a bunch of the artists
together, ditto "Angels We Have Heard on High" (you will never hear a more
rocking version!), "Jingle Bell Rock" by GM&tD (awesomely pure guitars),
and my two personal favorites:  "Oh Come Oh Come Immanuel" by Margaret
Becker - this has to be heard to be believed!  And finally, "Little Drummer
Boy" by Whiteheart - I'd been dying to find this on an album ever since I
heard it at one of their concerts.

Most righteous music, all in all.  (Pun intended.)

And while I'm on the topic, I agree with the positive reviews of "Handel's
Young Messiah".  Completely awesome!!

			--Michael

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Hill   <><  Isaiah 9:6 | "Living martyr, truer than the seasons
hill@spot.Colorado.EDU         |  No more place for lies
                               |  Cast a seed, push aside the reason
University of Colorado@Boulder |  Reign of terror dies"
$ mv net.flames /dev/null      |         --King's X, "Out of the Silent Planet"
-------------------------My boss is a Jewish carpenter!------------------------
Did you ever notice that everybody in favor of abortion has already been born?!
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: wblee@euler.Berkeley.EDU (Wen-Po Bobby Lee)
Subject: Re: drums and worship
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 17:45:08 GMT

In article <168A1E38A.WEBBG@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu> WEBBG@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu writes:
>In article <1ds2knINNbkc@agate.berkeley.edu>
>tjchen@ocf.berkeley.edu (Thomas Jer Chen) writes:
> 
>>
>>   I am a relatively new drummer for our church and would like to generate
>>discussion about the use of drums in worship.  Although drums and cymbals
>>have been mentioned in the OT in conjunction with praise, it seems to me
>>like some churches feel like drums are more distracting than other more
>>conventional "worship" instruments (e.g. guitar and keyboards)  Specifically,
>>what are some steps that I can take to minimize distracting effects and
>>maximize the additive effects of drums?
>>

>Well, to begin with I have played in my church for 5 years, and absolutely
>love playing drums/percussion.  Percussion can be a great asset to any church
>orchestra, but it has to be done with great sensitivity and care.  Drummers
>MUST be incredibly in tune with the worship leader and the Holy Spirit when
>playing, nothing destroys a spirit of wordhip more then insensitive bashing
>in the percussion section.

I agree completely.  Oh, hi Thomas, what 'sup!  I have been to a conservative
church where drums are not allowed and to a church where they are.  I
definitely "feel" like my worship is "better" in the latter.  Besides, Thomas,
I believe your addressed your question w.r.t. fellowship meetings.  I hope we
get drums on Sundays, too.  But as stated above, the key is being in tune
with the worship team and the Holy spirit, as well as the congregation.

>Well, that's enough rambling.
Ditto.

--Bobby Lee
wblee@euler.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 13:58:04 -0500 
From: Meg Alison Veily <mv0t+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: What do you do when your child thinks Metallica is cool?
	<1992Nov17.141409.4399@cbfsb.cb.att.com>

I have been following the discussion between Noel and Jason on this
topic of methods of evangelization. First, I must say that it is good to
see honest disagreement without the accompanying insults that are
present on so many electronic bboard systems. Your Christianity is
showing!

I think there is a validity to what both are saying. As a person who
went to school at Carnegie Mellon, most of the people I have encountered
here are intellectuals, (and liberals). Much of the witnessing I have
done has been in the form of logical discussions. So in this sense, I
understand and agree with Jason's (and Andy's) point that you need to
listen to other people, and know where they are coming from. At the same
time, if we ever try to take witnessing totally upon ourselves, without
leaning on the Holy Spirit for guidance, we will not help, and may make
things worse. When I was a young Christian, I desparately wanted to
convert a close friend that I went to far with my witnessing. It was not
annointed of God, and only made the situation worse.

I know this is a bit of a tangent, but my point is, we need to take what
we know intellectually, and allow God to direct it with His Spirit. I
belive you can be a successful witness without a lot of intellectual
knowledge, but without the guidance of the Holy Spirit, I don't believe
any witness would be beneficial.

Concerning the issue of quoting Scripture: I also did not tend to quote
Scripture in my witnessing. I do, however, discuss Biblical concepts. I
find, for me, that Scripture provides encouragement and instruction FOR
THE CHRISTIAN in dealing with non-Christians. I am not saying it can't
directly affect a non-Christian; of course it can. Some people are on
the edge of submission to God, and a good shot of Truth may be just what
is needed to get them to commit to Him.

Goodness, this has gotten long winded. Basically, there is no sure fire
method of witnessing that works with everyone, and I think, as
Christians, we need to be open to God's leading as to when we should
utilize our worldly knowledge, when we should share our own testimony,
and when we should speak straight Scripture without any of our own
editorials attached. I believe God can use any of those approaches,
because he's God, and knows the hearts of all men. Our job is to listen
to Him.

-Meg

And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness will not overcome
it. --John 1:5

ObChristianMusic: Does anyone know how many albums Glen Campbell has
released since he became a Christian? What are the album titles? (Anyone
responding to this question, please do us all a favor and change the
Subject header before you send the message.) :-)
From: mpm@mips.com (Mike Murphy)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Phil Keaggy guitar training video?
Date: 16 Nov 1992 22:58:07 GMT
Organization: MIPS Computer Systems, Sunnyvale, California
NNTP-Posting-Host: jireh.mti.sgi.com

Is anyone familiar with the Instructional Videos put out by Music Source
International?  They have an ad in CCM about Instructional Videos for
guitar, drums, singing, etc.  I'm particularly interested in the video
by Phil Keaggy about Electric Guitar Style, and was wondering if it is
worth the $40.
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: Phil.Powell@launchpad.unc.edu (Phil Powell)
Subject: Re: cornerston reminicing
Keywords: c stone
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 02:49:43 GMT

In article <By2qpx.6Bo@news.cso.uiuc.edu> mdk34398@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Beaker) writes:
>
>Just got the 20th Anniversary Issue of C-stone 'zine.
>Tickets for C-stone '93 are now available.
>I will post more info when I have the 'zine in front of me.
>
>cstone '92 in one word:
>M U D
>
>The Beak
>beaker@uiuc.edu
>As a dog returns to his vomit, so do Chrisitan rockers to Bushnell.


I don't know if I like that analogy.. even if it is probably accurate..

And don't forget, read it first in SOA - E: Cornerstone '93 lineup! (I
already know a few that are considered)

Phil

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: sysop@narnia.UUCP (Jim Vestal)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Brown Bannister
Keywords: brown bannister
Date: 18 Nov 92 09:46:40
Distribution: world
Summary: Brown Bannister
Organization: Narnia BBS


> I was trying to think of old Brown Bannister songs. I know there some good one
> ,
> but all I can think of id Talk to oneanother
> 
> jp
I have that album, Talk to One Another... the title song is pretty good.

Here's the other song titles:

Talk To One Another
Honesty
Love Song
Love Waits For You
Nature of Love
Carry ON
Lutte de Coeur
I Loved You Once
Lay It All Down
Sometimes My Heart
Create In Me a Clean Heart

The album is copyright 1981 Newpax Records distributed by the Benson Comapany

That's the only Brown Banister albam in my collection.  How many other albums
has he had?

Jim
--
      |                     Internet:  JIMVESTAL@Delphi.com
  ----|----       Fido:  "Jim Vestal" on OS9 echo and the COCO echo
      |        Delphi: "JIMVESTAL" - representing the OS-9 Underground
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(916) 743 - 8242      Narnia BBS - 1 Corinthians 1:18 & Romans 1:16
Pacific 12a - 8a   Supporting OS-9 on the CoCo 3 - StG: Sysop @ Narnia
From: alailima@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (The PRO-LIFE Samoan)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: TANGENT: Intellectual witnessing (Was Re: Something about Metallica)
Date: 18 Nov 92 19:37:45 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

After reading through about 20 billion articles on this Bible vs. Nietzsche
(I think I actually spelled it right) methods of evangelizing I came up
with this little analogy (I love making little analogies :-).

A person's philosophy is the foundation on which they stand. Sometimes,
this philosophy is not too tall or it is located very near to the Christian
"philosophy" (please don't argue about whether or not it is a philosophy,
that's essentially irrelevant to this). In these cases, the Christian can
often, without tremendous effort, pierce the person with his sword
(God's Word = God Sword :-). But quite often there are people with
towering foundations who are out of the reach of his sword-stroke. He
can lob the sword at them but he will very likely miss entirely and
merely make the person laugh at his feeble attempts.  Or he can instead
poke at the foundations and convince the person that this tower is not
so steady after all.  And as the person comes down from his unstable
tower he comes within reach of the sword. So, how best to shake up the
foundations? Understanding how the tower is constructed can give us an
idea of how best to attack it.  But even then, shaking up a stone tower
is beyond the capability of the average human. So it is obviously necessary
to use something stronger (i.e. the Spirit!). I'm kind of running out
of metaphor here so I'll end this now.  But hopefully this can help
some people to see the points made by various people in their postings.

Grace and Peace,
Titi

--
    /~/         |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
 /~~  ~/ MARANA |Titiimaea "The WILD Samoan" \ President, founder, and sole   |
 ~/ /~~   THA!  |Alailima@Eniac.SEAS.UPenn.Edu\ member of the Penn Samoan Club|
 /_/            |______________________________\______________________________|
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: 6197110@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: re:  Hymns
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 14:15:24 GMT

Another note :) about 'shape notes.'  Because the shape of the note
determines it's value on the scale, you don't have to have a bass and
treble clef when using them--you can just put them all in a line.

Ramona
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: mooras@crockett1b.its.rpi.edu (Steve 'War Axe' Mooradian)
Subject: Re: "We Will Stand" stolen by Clinton
Reply-To: mooras@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:52:19 GMT

>> Is it Just me, Or did anyone else feel that this is the most offensive
>> thing you'd seen posted on R.M.C. in a long time?

> Not nearly as offensive as the original post to which Andy was
> responding, claiming that Clinton's election was the beginning of
> God's wrath on America, perhaps a signal of the end times.  Talk about
> blasphemy!  At least Andy was joking.
   
    When someone takes the holy word of God and twists it to make a joke, then *THAT* is blasphemy. I think Andy and those like him need to either find peace with themselves and with their fellow brothers in Christ, or find another net sub to post on, because I for one am sick of hearing their hypocrosy.

<<<STEVE>>>
Morning Star - lead guitarist
Revelations 22:16

	
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: rburlin@owlnet.rice.edu (Rusty Burlingame)
Subject: Re: TANGENT Re: "We Will Stand" stolen by Clinton
Followup-To: rec.music.christian
Keywords: Kill File
Organization: Rice University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:03:22 GMT

In article <bqx1rfp@rpi.edu>, mooras@crockett1b.its.rpi.edu (Steve 'War Axe' Mooradian) writes:
|> > than themselves.  What a novel concept.  You know what?  It's not
|> > going to work because Christians are going to be bitching and moaning
|> > for the next four years about the godless administration.  We all know
|> 
|>   First off let me say that your words are a window into your heart. The particular wording used in the above comment are a sad example of Christians who adopt the worldliness of today.
|>   Next off I will say that you have shown no reverance of God's Word. You can define satire (heck, you can post all of Webster) but you sorta killed yourself when you did. Do you think it is appropriate to use alter the Word of God just to make political |> wisecracks?
|>   Which brings me to my last point, I am sick (VERY SICK) of reading political debates on this sub. If you have aomething musically inclined to say, say it. If you don't, then don't post anything! Got it?
|> 
|> <<<STEVE>>>
|> MORNING STAR - lead guitarist
|> Revelations 22:16
|>   


War Axe -  Shut up.  If you feel the need to post something edifying in the
           futurre, please do so in 80 columns.

Everyone - This is the second one of War Axe's little messages.  How do I
           make a kill file again?  Thanks.

Rusty
rburlin@owlnet.rice.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: mvp@netcom.com (Mike Van Pelt)
Subject: Re: Pad Thai
Keywords: One Bad Pig
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 08:27:02 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.033033.3498@Princeton.EDU> adgoetz@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Andrew David Goetz) writes:
>Anyone out there have any idea what the words Pad Thai mean?  This 
>is a song by One Bad Pig, and I am extremely interested in what 
>this means.  The whole song goes as such:
>
>When my brain starts to fry...
>it time to go and get Pad Thai

I suspect it means that they like Thai food.  Pad Thai is a dish
composed of noodles, bean sprouts, shrimp, chopped peanuts, fish sauce,
and I forget what all else.  There's probably a good bit of Thai chili
pepper in it, too, depending on the restaurant.

Thai dishes can be pretty hot, but the Pad Thai I've had is at the
cooler end of the scale.
-- 
Mike Van Pelt          | It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming
mvp@netcom.com         | mob pounding on a greasy spot on the pavement,
mvp@hsv3.lsil.com      | where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.
From: plemmons@mth.msu.edu (Steve Plemmons)
Subject: Re: Pray For Rain: OPEN DISCUSSION
Organization: Michigan State University, Dept. of Mathematics
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 18:15:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.155642.8637@iscsvax.uni.edu>, marshall1198@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>Lately I've been thinking of opening random topics.  It seems that this
>newsgroup is either following one of the two extremes of music...adult
>contemporary or the heavy stuff.  Now I am not knocking anything, I'm just
>going to start posting random subjects to be discussed openly.
>
>
>The first one:
>
>I've been listening to the Pray For Rain CD, and both me and my guitarrist have 
>loved this album ever since we started to listen to them.  It almost has a
>Beatle-esque sound to it at times.  The bass player is fantastic and he keeps
>your interest (I play bass myself).  Also the lyrics are full of meaning!  
>
>So, what does everyone else think of this album, Pray For Rain's musicians, or
>whatever!


Pray For Rain is also one of my favorite CD's this year.  I really like "Let It
Go".  They seem to have a lot of songs that keep me singing them all day.  Real
catchy yuno?  I haven't listened to them much in the last couple of weeks because
I just picked up the new CD from Hokus Pick Manouver.  I really like these guys
too.  They are fun to listen to and cater to many musical styles.  The lead
vocalist is not the best though.

See Ya,

Steve


-- 
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@  Steve Plemmons                    As a former fetus, I oppose          @
@  plemmons@mth.msu.edu              abortion! - Living Epistles Shirt    @
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: azamora@hexagon.cs.indiana.edu (Tony Zamora)
Subject: Re: TANGENT: God *is* a Republican (was: Hymns)
Reply-To: azamora@cs.indiana.edu
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 12:41:29 EST

In article <1992Nov21.055345.1544@meaddata.com> dlovely@meaddata.com (David  
Lovely) writes:
> I was sorry to hear that this poster voted for Clinton.  Clinton was backup  
up by the
> pro-abortion, homosexual, pornography, and anti-religious, lobbies.   
Regardless of
> your opinion of Bush, how can any true Christian support a candidate whose  
views
> are opposite of what he or she believes?

An important thing for everyone to realize is that many Christians can't  
support either party in good conscience.  The Republican party is pro-life but  
then turns around and opposes a family leave bill that would guarantee that  
pregnant women can take time off work to have the baby without losing their  
job.  It opposes gun-control.  It is pro-capital punishment.  It has also  
resisted raising the minimum wage, and has a lousy record on urban development  
and low-income housing.  It advocates irresponsible use of the environment.   
The aggressive Republican policies on deregulation led to greed, individualism,  
and gross excesses like the savings and loan scandal.  The Reagan  
administration took America into the largest debt ever (with most of the money  
going to military programs), resulting in our nation having no fiscal leverage  
to deal with economic problems now.  The Bible talks about more than just  
homosexuality and abortion.  It also talks about justice, fiscal  
responsibility, and taking care of the poor.

> God is not Republican, but the party as a whole is MUCH more in line with  
Christian
> beliefs and issues, than the Democrats.  Of course, should this change, I'd  
be the 1st to
> abandon them!

The Republican party is only in line with Christian beliefs on some issues.  As  
I mentioned above, it fails miserably on other Christian beliefs.

> Before casting your next ballot, ask yourself: "Does this candidate's  
positions support my
> beliefs and values?"  Let me tell you, Clinton definately did NOT support  
mine, so I
> did NOT vote for him!!

None of the candidates wholly supported mine, so I had a very hard time.

Tony
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian