HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: Since we are talking about pro equip
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 18:35:59 GMT

In <1992Oct4.224537.258@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) writes:

>tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
>: People here generally don't like to ride with 
>: people that have aero bars because they invariably get on the bars in 
>: a pace line and are dangerous.

>I have ridden with
>people who use clip-ons quite effectively in pace lines.  With
>practice, I think it is reasonably safe for the lead rider to
>be on clip-ons.

I'd have to agree.  I was skeptical at first, but practiced
riders ride just as well on their aero bars as on standard
drop bars in most circumstances, and usually have the brains
to use the aero position only when it's safe.  Now, I'm not
sure it's really *polite* to get on your aero bars in a
paceline if the other riders haven't discussed it or ridden
with you before, but that's a different matter.  It does
make the second rider work a little harder to make up for
the first rider's smaller wind-shadow, but it can increase
the overall speed of the line if everyone works well
together.

>From my own experiences, I
>estimate that aero bars are worth close to 1 mph.  I also estimate that
>a disk rear wheel and blade-spoked front are worth about a second in a
>1000 m TT.  For someone riding non-competitively these differences are
>negligible.  

Aero bars are also wonderful at the end of a long day
touring into headwinds.  It may only raise my speed from
13.0 to 13.2, but it is a very comfortable position.
-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
From: casseres@apple.com (David Casseres)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Advice on chains..
Date: 29 Sep 92 21:03:28 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.

In article <6405@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, jwgst2+@pitt.edu (James W
Gourgoutis) wrote:

> 	I would like some advice on chains.  Specifically, how long can one
> usually use the same chain?  I just read a post that said 2000 miles, but mine
> seem to wear out in around 500 or 600 miles.  My bike is not indexed, and is 
> just a simple 10-speed.  
> 	Is there much difference between "brand-name" chains and non-brand-name
> chains?  Because my bike is not indexed, I have the choice of using virtually
> any chain out there, instead of being limited to, say, Hyperglide compatible
> only.  Presently I am using a Schwinn-approved chain, bought at the local
> shop.  This chain costs about $8.00.  I was wondering if brand-name chains
> last longer.  A Sedis ATB chain costs about $8.00 also, so I was thinking of
> trying one of these.  Would it last much longer?

If you are only getting 500 or 600 miles out of a chain, then either you
are riding in extraordinarily bad conditions that put a whole lot of
abrasive goop onto your chain, or you need to clean and lube it better, or
your rear sprockets are badly worn -- or some combination of the above.

To check your cogs, look at them carefully and see if any of the teeth have
become concave on the "rear" edge, i.e. the edge that the chain roller
pulls on.  If so, replace the cogs.

If it's a question of better cleaning and lubing, try this:  once or twice
a week (more if it's rainy) wipe the chain thoroughly with a rag by turning
the pedals backward while holding the rag around the chain with your fist.

Once a month, either take the chain off and clean it with solvent and a
toothbrush or clean it on the bike with one of those gadgets that you fill
with solvent and hook over the chain.  These gadgets are made by Park and
by Vetta, and are available at bike shops for too much money.  For solvent,
I recommend one of the new biodegradable types like Simple Green.

After cleaning with solvent and letting the chain dry, lube it by applying
a tiny drop of lubricant to each roller, where it meets the side-plate. 
The idea is to get oil inside the roller which is where it's needed.

(Before everybody else attacks me for giving you all the wrong advice about
chain maintenance, let me say that this is a very conservative method that
works well enough for me.  If someone else tells you a completely different
story, listen to them too!)

As for the Sedis ATB chain, I use it and get 3000 to 4000 miles per chain. 
It's a good chain, but I doubt that it will last *much* longer than any
other good chain.

--

David Casseres
Exclaimer: Wow!
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Subject: Re: Cantilever Technology;  Scotts are more powerfull??  How?
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 01:56:02 GMT

In article <BvFxv1.9Cq@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
praetzel@marconi.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel) writes:
 
>In article <1992Sep27.031651.11152@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Gen.M.Kanai@dartmouth.edu (Gen M. Kanai) writes:
>>many companies use the "Scott Self-Energizing Brakes" on tandems just
>>to show how powerful they are.  They are almost too much for a normal
>>bike...
>   Really?  How on earth can they be more powerfull?  Any canti's I know will
>lock my rear wheel or put me over the bars when properly setup (the difference
>being that the cheap ones will shift after a good hard brake).  I can not see
>them being any better than any normal canti's.  On a tandom your problem is
>with extra mass.  This means that you need a larger pad to distribute the
>heat and more surface area for more friction; you do not need more force.  The
 
Oh yes you do need more force.  Friction is proportional to total force
(or, eqivalently, area times force per unit area.)  While rims will heat
up if you try to dissipate lots of energy, that is not always the problem
with tandems.  Sometimes you just want to dissipate a moderate amount of
energy very quickly...for example stopping quickly on level ground when
going 15 mph.  This is not enough energy to heat up the rims significantly.
But using standard brakes in such a situation may mean that your tandem
ends up running a red light or worse, where the brakes would have stopped
a single bike in time.
 
>only good solution is a set of hub or disk brakes (now readily available at
>Bike Nashbar for some high price).  I have seen radical differences over the
>years in brakes performance but that is because of differing brake compounds.
>However, the result is still heat and if the Scott ones are really more
>powerfull then they will melt the glue on a tubi faster but they will melt it
>just like any other canti.
>  - Eric
>
From: jbrandt@hplred.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 22:31:27 GMT
Subject: Re: freewheel vices
Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech

Karen Walrath writes:

> There has been some talk about disassembling freewheel cogs using a
> freewheel vice and chain whips.  I have only done it using two
> chainwhips, and find it rather difficult.

If you used the chain whips while the freewheel was on the wheel, it
shouldn't be any more difficult than that some sprockets are extremely
tight.  Off the wheel, the freewheel is a bit more difficult to steady
but by bearing on the floor you can apply more force.  This would be
with one chain wrench laying on the floor and the second used with
both hands pressing down.

> So, what is a freewheel vice do, how does it work?  I have never
> seen one in any bike store or catalog.

A freewheel vise usually has two parallel steel bars that slide on a
pair of rails to adjust for different size sprockets.  There are two
short ~3/8" diameter pins that stick up and near the top have a notch
about the diameter of a chain roller and about as wide.  Some have
only one pin on one rail since odd numbered sprockets cannot engage
two on each side.  By engaging the pins in the largest sprocket of a
freewheel, the jaws can be placed in a bench vise and clamped.  With
the secured freewheel, one chain wrench is you need (or can use).  It
is the most practical way to work on a freewheel, especially when it
isn't on a wheel as they often were in bikes shop when new (freewheels
are vanishing).

The main thing is that you need a solid bench and vise that can be
rotationally secured.  Otherwise the vise or the whole table will
rotate.

Park Tools or United Bicycle Tools sell them and your local bike shop
can order you one with their next order.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
From: casseres@apple.com (David Casseres)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Re: My first Century!!!
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:51:27 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.

In article <102510006@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, khe@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Keith
Erskine) wrote:

[I wrote]
> > With [red Look] cleats the exact adjustment of the cleat becomes largely
> > academic; as long as the ball of your foot is over the pedal spindle and
> > you can click in and out comfortably, the cleat is adjusted all it needs to
> > be.
> 
> I disagree with this: I think it is still important to have the cleat
> adjusted correctly with flotation systems.  Improper cleat adjustment
> will increase the likelihood of premature ejection (;-), so you
> may pull your foot out accidentally in a sprint (bad, bad, bad).
> If the flotation pedal system has a spring that returns the cleat 
> to the centered position (like the 1990 Look Arc pedals), it is good 
> to have the cleat centered properly so the centering force isn't always 
> trying to twist your foot one way or another.

You're right.  Still, I think the adjustment is far less critical than it
would be with non-rotational systems, and can be done by trial and error
with some attention to just how the insertion/ejection is working.  A
professional RAD adjustment isn't required, that's what I was trying to get
at.

--

David Casseres
Exclaimer: Wow!
From: chandler@wc.novell.com (Mark Chandler)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Suntour XC Pro pedals and road shoes
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:36:07 GMT
Organization: Novell, Inc. - Walnut Creek

In article <9209281622.AA16344@noc2.dccs.upenn.edu> gustilo@POBOX.UPENN.EDU writes:
>greetings,
>
>Does anyone know if this pedal will take road cleats?
>
>I have a pair of Duegi road shoes and I cannot use them on a Deore XT pedal
>since there is not enough clearance between the cleat and the pedal
>spindle. There is also a problem with the back of the cleat not engaging
>the pedal all the way because the flip tabs are up too high.

The XC-Pro should work just fine.  It's rear cage is one of the highest
around, so it should keep the cleat/show well away from the pedal's
body.

I had similar problems with Specialized's cleated mountain shoe (and
Shimano's Deore XT pedal).  The XC-Pro pedal (and the Superbe Pro)
would have fixed the problem, but I got rid of the shoes instead.


--
Mark Chandler               Novell, Inc.          510/975-4522
chandler@wc.novell.com      Walnut Creek, CA      510/938-2562 FAX
==================================================================
     The opinions expressed above are mine, not my employer's.
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Since we are talking about pro equip
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:03:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Sep30.230341.19613
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <BvD2y8.Cw9@world.std.com> dp@world.std.com (Jeff DelPapa) writes:
>I was slightly surprised to see such conventional hardware in evidence
>at the olympic road races - specifically the wheels all seemed to be
>conventional spoked construction, rather than the disks and composite
>3 spoke wheels that I see at my local bike emporia.  Likewise the
>frames seemd to be fairly conventional tubing, very much unlike the
>composite wonders used by the timetrialing (which also happend on
>regular pavement) contingent. Despite their ameteur status, the price

Ahh, you noticed. Well, the difference from all of that aero equipment
is so small that it is all lost if you pick your head up to look
forward for a couple of seconds.

It gives much more psychological aid and comfort than actual aid.
From: jlacoss@isi.edu (Jeff LaCoss)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Strange groupo discovered, seeking info...
Keywords: groupo, components
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:14:00 GMT
Reply-To: jlacoss@paddington.isi.edu (Jeff LaCoss)
Distribution: usa
Organization: USC-Information Sciences Institute

In article <1992Sep28.193058.542@doug.cae.wisc.edu> brianh@hprisc-29.cae.wisc.edu (Brian Huilman) writes:
>	My question:  does anybody know anything about Zeus components?

 Zeus is well known for their close copies of Campy. Thats "close
copy" as in "looks like it was molded from".

 "Thats amazing! How did they do it?" you ask. Well, for years under
Franco (who, happily, remains dead), Spain had zero respect for
copyright laws. Not nice, but it makes indigenous industry somewhat
more viable.

 I don't know if Zeus is still with us. They may have suffered a quiet
death with the return of Juan Carlos and the return of the country to
the mainstream.

	Jeff
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: karen@athena.mit.edu (Karen E. Walrath)
Subject: Re: Computers on shocks
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:20:55 GMT

In article <15749@umd5.umd.edu> jp11244@snoopy.umd.edu (Ricky deLeyos) writes:

>I tried a Cateye bracket but it was still too small and the screw
>wasn't long enough. Does Specialized sell special mounts for
>shocks? Or does anyone else have a brilliant solution so I
>won't have to spend over $10. Thanks in advance. 

Try one of those plastic cable ties (also known as wire ties and zip ties).
I used those to attach the cadance and wheel sensors of a cateye micro.  
If the tie is small enough you might be able to thread it through the screw
holes.  If not, I wrapped the tie around both sides of the sensor and cinched
it tight.

Karen Walrath
MIT

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: kristian@dwayne (Kristian Simsarian)
Subject: Re: Hyper-Cracker?
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Chicago
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:08:05 GMT



	It is a fine tool, works without too much hassle and makes the
Hyperglide cassette a very elegant set-up to repair.  It is about $7.25 from
Nashbar or $10 from my local bike store.  There is also another version
for older style freewheels, it is composed of the seat stay "L" shape and
a small piece of chain - same principle.

	The only complaint, is that it looks/feels a bit cheap, i.e.
the casting marks were not filed down.


-- 
Kristian T. Simsarian			University of Chicago AI Laboratory
email: kristian@cs.uchicago.edu		CS Dept. Chicago, IL 60637
From: E5EM@UNB.CA (E5EM)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Time Trial Wheels
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:43:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: UNBVM1.30SEP92.16975922.0191
Organization: The University of New Brunswick


      I'm thinking of buying a set of TT wheels. So far, the
trispoke wheels from Cobalt Cycles seems like the best wheel, plus
they've lowered their price from $499 to $299. I'd appreciate any
info, pro or con, on the trispoke wheels, or on any other good TT
wheels. Thanks.



       Kevin Besner

       University of New Brunswick
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: CMSC28@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Mark Hickey)
Subject: Re: 0 Re: caged vs. loose bearings
Organization: Motorola
Date: 6 Oct 1992 14:05:04 CDT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
>In article <1992Oct6.040751.25849@leland.Stanford.EDU> sjlt@leland.Stanord.EDU
>(Sean Lev-Tov) writes:
>>The other day in the library I was reading a bicycle repair book
>>about overhauling the headset (my mountain bike needs its headset
>>and bottom bracket overhauled now).  The book  said that when
>>overhauling the headset, replace caged bearings with loose ones
>>so you get 2 more in there.  I'm wondering if it really is a good
>>idea and if it really makes a difference.
>From a resistance and wear-and-tear viewpoint I would say yes.  Increasng
>the number if bearings in the headset will make turning the handlebars
>easier (though probably not noticeably).  Also, increasing the number o
>bearings will cut down on wear-and-tear inside the headset because of te
>increased contact area between the bearings and the headset.  ie.  Incrased
>surface area = less pressure per unit contact area = less wear on the hadset.
>I think this alone would make it worthwhile-- parts would wear out lessquickly
>..  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this.
>
>Sean
>
>Sean Kelly

Correctomundo... Another advantage of eliminating the races (other than
shaving a couple grams) is that a pitted (i.e. index steering) headset
will be semi-smooth after changing the number of bearings.  Not perfect,
but a lot better.

Mark (on your left) Hickey
From: chandler@wc.novell.com (Mark Chandler)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Why no cantilevers on racing bikes?
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:04:33 GMT
Organization: Novell, Inc. - Walnut Creek

In article <1992Sep28.213137.8028@gtephx.UUCP> corfmanr@gtephx.UUCP (Russ Corfman) writes:
>In article <54488.2699210754@kiwi.gen.nz>, rabbi@kiwi.gen.nz (Rabbi Bajzheet) writes:
>> pardo@cs.washington.edu (David Keppel) writes:
>> : >rabbi@kiwi.gen.nz (Rabbi Bajzheet):
>> : >> Why do racing bicycles never have cantilever brakes?
>
>This is not true. Cyclo cross racing bikes and Mt. Bikes have
>cantilever brakes. The only real technological reason why
>is for mud clearance.

That, and if you had to make a *pull brake that would clear a knobby
AND mud, it would have *very* long arms which would have to be made
thicker (read, heavier) to avoid "flex."

>Caliper brakes are much simpler to adjust than cantilever
>brakes. This is most likely the most important reason. Centering
>a caliper brake takes a couple of seconds with a cone wrench,
>centering a cantilever is a pain in the ass, even with a third
>hand. Getting the pads the correct distance from the rim is
>also much easier with calipers.

Hmmm.  Dia-Compe's cantilevers center with a cone wrench, as do SunTour's,
Paul's, Campy's, etc.  Yes, Shimano uses a small allen-key for centering,
but nobody uses Shimano stuff these days ;+)  Perhaps you were thinking
of the old Mafac brakes that required the rider/mechainic to bend the
return springs to center the brakes.

>Another thing that is much easier to do with caliper brakes as
>opposed to cantilevers, wheel changes.

Why?  Is it the "wheel guides" on the brake pads?  I don't think
it's because of *pulls "quick-releases" because most cantilevers
have a quick-release straddle cable.

And by the way, I have cantilevers on my road bike.  They're the only
thing that would clear a 700x47C Continental.

>Ciao,
>-- 
>Russell Corfman
>AG Communication Systems; Phoenix, AZ
>UUCP: ...!{ncar!noao!enuucp | att}!gtephx!corfmanr
>Internet: gtephx!corfmanr@enuucp.eas.asu.edu
>(602) 581-4403


--
Mark Chandler               Novell, Inc.          510/975-4522
chandler@wc.novell.com      Walnut Creek, CA      510/938-2562 FAX
==================================================================
     The opinions expressed above are mine, not my employer's.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Bladed spokes
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 20:14:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.162956.26525@panther.mot.com> ronf@panther3.panther.mot.com (Ron Feigen) writes:
>I am looking for some advice on using bladed spokes.  I am a new cyclist, who
>recently bought a Trek 5200.  It has Matrix ISO II clinches, and it currently my
>only wheels set, and probably will be for a while.  The shop that sold me the
>bike offered to rebuild the wheels with bladed spokes and alloy nipples for $50.

I will make this suggestion:

Matrix rims are nice but the quality control is a little sleazy. Look at your
spokes and see if _all_ of the spoke nipples have the correct angles towards
the rim. If they don't have the correct angles it can cause problems with
alloy nipples because forcing the nipple over into the side of the rim hole
causes it to tighten up much faster without tensioning the spoke.

Remember that in order to insert bladed spokes the hubs have to be slotted
so you have to have good quality hubs and the shop has to have the proper
tool.

When you have bladed spokes I always suggest that you carry a spoke wrench
with you all the time since they catch the wind and vibrate more if they
are the slightest bit loose -- your wheel can sing like a canary.

I haven't noticed that bladed spokes are worthwhile and they seem to
be loose all of the time with their owners fiddling with them. If it's
a set of TT wheels, fine but otherwise don't bother.

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Cateye Micro average speed algorithm?
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 19:32:16 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan, Aerospace Engineering
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6F64958DF01C4FC@sprl-mac2016.sprl.umich.edu>
X-Xxdate: Mon, 5 Oct 92 19:34:48 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.130013.29677@panix.com> Paul Gatker, paul@panix.com writes:
>
>>On occasion I have noticed that the Cateye makes one of these unusual
>>fluctuations before I press the stop button.  In this case, the average
>              ^^^^^^
>
> Would this have anything to do with the Heisenberg uncertainty principle?
>

I'm not sure . . . but sometimes I get the feeling that when I am not looking
at my milage computer, it is actually on both sides of my handle bar!

========================================================================
| Michael F. Kamprath                   | The University of Michigan   |
|   kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu |      Aerospace Engineering   |
|   kamprath@engin.umich.edu            |                              |
+---------------------------------------+------------------------------+
| This country is a _democracy_.  It is NOT a "Two Party Sytem."  DO   |
| NOT believe The Lie that not voting Republican or Democratic will    |
| waste your vote.  Vote for who ever you please, and let the          |
| politicians find out what a democratic government is all about.      | 
========================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: loucks@isrc.sandia.gov (Cliff Loucks)
Subject: Re: Strange groupo discovered, seeking info...
Organization: Sandia National Labs, Org. 1600, Albq., NM
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 20:11:42 GMT

Brian Huilman:
> This bike had a groupo I've never heard of:  "Zeus".

Zeus made components that were Campy Nuovo Record duplicates.  I mean
they were exact copies.  They weren't the only ones either.
Sugino's Mighty Comp cranks were essentially identical; the
chainrings were interchangeable.  Another company from (I think)
Argentina, call Saavedra, also made Nuovo Record copies.  My wife
still has a Saavedra chainring on her old Alan Olympic road bike.

> chainrings (with 2mm dia.  holes all around the circumfrence, just
> below the teeth.  obviously for weight, but still strange...),

Just last year, after getting access to a CNC milling machine, I
drilled and milled the chainrings for my Klein.  Why?  Because Eddy
"The Cannibal" was still racing when I started; and besides, they look
pretty.  More aerodynamic drag you say?  Big deal; it's peanuts.

Cliff
-- 

Cliff Loucks  <=>  loucks@isrc.sandia.gov
Sandia National Labs, Albuquerque, New Mexico
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech