Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York
	<1992Nov11.193714.11164@midway.uchicago.edu>
Apparently-To: rec-music-gaffa@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa

In <1992Nov11.193714.11164@midway.uchicago.edu> hasn@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

>In article <a8J1TB4w165w@netlink.cts.com>, lionhart@netlink.cts.COM (Jackie Zucconi) writes:
>> 
>> s_wilkin@csd.uwe-bristol.ac.uk (Simon) writes:
>> 
>> > 
>> > Shouldn't personal morals be as unconnected with musical taste
>> > as sexuality is?
>> > 
>> > Sure, stealing is not very nice, but I'm sure thieves have families
>> > and loved ones and can appreciate good music too.
>> > 
>> > Anybody out there a criminal who agrees with me?
>> > 
>> > Simon
>> 
>> Simon, keep reading my original post until you understand it....
>>                      Kateness,
>>                            Lionheart
>> 
>Jackie, why this moral lesson on "stealing is bad."  Hell its a huge statement 
>with some risk attached to it.  Kate Bush (I like her music but
>havnt sold my soul to her!) would never denounce the thief.....shes 
>an incredibly leftwing anti-capitalist person.  I can see her as a kid
>stealing candy from the neighbourhood store.

>And regarding your last statement, why must you be so condescending.
>If you lost money because of that person, that is a risk faced by most
>businesses.  However, if you're just upset because it was Kate Bush's
>CD set that was stolen, thats absurd.  I have nothing against people 
>who steal, since I'm not in their shoes.  What gives me the right to
>have access to music and not someone without the cash. Kates music
>is about looking at life in the face.....and the picture isnt that great....
>.Lets not listen to her (or for that matter any good music) without
>actually thinking about it in connection with what surrounds us.  If that
>woman stole, dont be angry with her.  Be angy with the system that
>makes such a sad act necessary.  Or for that matter think of her as 
>a friend of a fellow Kate Bush fan with little to spare.  May be this 
>will be a Christmas Gift.  Think about it.

>Now if you dont mind I have a date with my demagnetizer at the
>CD store!!! :-)

I hate to say "it's the principle of the thing" but it's absolutely true. 
Stealing is hardly justified as a political act in this situation.  When you
steal, it's not only a material loss but also a statement that you don't
have any respect for the victim's property...it's a personal thing as well
as a monetary one.

"What gives me the right to have access to music and not someone without the
cash"????!!!  I don't even know how to begin challenging you on this.  If it
were education, health care, or food, I might agree with you...but as much
as I love music I hardly think that everyone is entitled to take recordings
of it.  Professional musicians with recordings out need to make money on
those recordings...they need to eat, too.

I think the main thing that set me off here was your statement "be angry
with the system that makes such a sad act necessary."  Again, if we were
dealing with food or clothing maybe I could agree, but I hardly think the
Evil System makes it *necessary* to steal Kate Bush's music.  I hardly think
a Kate Bush CD is a necessity (speaking in social rather than artistic
terms).

Whether or not Kate would condemn the thief is immaterial; she's a musician,
not a moral policymaker.  Whether or not you mind your possessions being
stolen is also immaterial; there are people who do (like me) and with good
reason.

Stealing is not seen as unethical due to some illusory System; most humans
view it as such.  Stealing doesn't fight the System; it only vindicates it. 
No arguments about left-wing or right-wing politics can really encompass
this issue; it's in the humanistic domain.

And after reading this I'm going to make doubly sure to keep my doors and
windows LOCKED.

Drewcifer
x-gateway: rodan.UU.NET from love-hounds to rec.music.gaffa; Fri, 6 Nov 1992 00:14:21 EST
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 00:10:47 -0500
Subject: ///// Cloudbusting Annotated Lyrics PART III (Orgonon?) ////////
From: rhill@netrun.cts.com (ronald hill)
Errors-To: Love-Hounds-request@uunet.uu.net
Comments: Cloudbuster
Message-ID: <TaXsTB4w165w@netrun.cts.com>