HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Thistles
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Date: 5 Oct 92 19:01:18 EST
 <1992Oct3.203613.4514@desire.wright.edu> <1992Oct5.143434.23677@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <1992Oct5.143434.23677@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, eroth@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (elizabeth.s.roth) writes:
> In article <1992Oct3.203613.4514@desire.wright.edu> sbishop@desire.wright.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Oct2.153422.29958@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, eroth@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (elizabeth.s.roth) writes:
>>> In article <BvGsGq.C77@news.orst.edu> tinsethg@ucs.orst.edu (Glenn Tinseth) writes:
>>>>In the process of making a list of the things we need to do to get
>>>>our 10 acres ready for livestock (just for us i.e. a couple of sheep,
>>>>2-3 weaner hogs, etc), I noticed that a pasture that horses were on for
>>>>the last couple years is loaded with thistles. They seem to grow to 
>>>>3-4 ft tall and have pink flowers that turn to fluff. Is it foolish to
>>>>think that I (and any unsuspecting visitors) can manually get rid of these
>>>>suckers over the next season or so? It's too late to avoid them going
>>>>to seed this year.
>>>>
>>>> (some deleted)
>>>>
>>>>Glenn
> 
> 
>>> 
>>> You will find it difficult to do by hand.  The best method, IMHO, is
>>> to build, borrow or rent a field sprayer.  Go out and mow the pasture
>>> and then go back and spray the entire pasture with whatever weed spray
>>> is recommended for thistles (I forget what we used :-).  You will probably
>>> have to do this 2-3 times but it will be effective.  We did it to 15 acres
>>> that had turned almost entirely to thistles and had nice grass before
>>> summer's end.  The next year it just took some spot spraying with a hand
>>> sprayer to keep everything in order.
>>> 
>>> BTW, get the horses and livestock off the pasture for 3-7 days after you
>>> spray, depending on the product.  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Susan
> 
> 
>>
>>NO!!  Give your animals and your environment a break and mow the thistles.
>>As long as you mow before they go to seed you will not have a problem.
>>Just mow them down a couple times a year and you will have nice grass
>>just about as soon as if you had used weed killer and it is much safer!
>>
>        (sad CROP-DUSTING story deleted)
>             ============
>>
>>I don't weed spray ANYTHING around my horses.  I used a weed whacker instead.
>>
>>Sue
> 
> 
> I believe you should have used IYO (in YOUR opinion).
> 
> 
> Susan
> -- 

Well, I could have used IYO, but that is assumed and not always necessary.
There are serious environmental concerns with spraying chemicals around
indiscriminately; farming has turned into a 'if it's a weed, then spray
it' business.  Unfortunately our water supply and land is rapidly becoming
a toxic waste dump.  Why not just use minimal interference and mow it
instead?  

Sue

Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: lbm@avs.com (Linda B. Merims)
Subject: Thistles, and Weeds in General
Organization: Advanced Visual Systems Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:51:16 GMT
X-Posted-From: phobos.avs.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Are thistles a) perennials or b) annuals?  Do they spread via a) root runners,
or only from b) seed?  If from seed, for how many years is the seed
potentially active?  If b, I would guess persistent mowing at the right time
would do it (provided one has a mower).  If a, the problem is a lot harder.
I do know that thistles have very shallow roots.

On the same subject, does anybody out there know a good, big "weed" book?
I want to be able to:

 - identify the weeds
 - learn about their ideal growing conditions and growing season
 - learn about issues of perennial vs annual and the other questions
   I asked above
 - learn what organic things one can do to control them (vary pH,
   mow like a daemon, plant something else with them like an aggressive
   grass)

All the books I've seen have only one thing to say about weeds--which
herbicide to use to kill them.  Evidently in times past, pastures were
maintained in good condition by rotating different grazing animals with
different tastes onto fields at different times of the season.  (They used
pigs to plow it up!)  I don't have that option, but I'd rather not "nuke"
a whole field.

Thanks in advance,
Linda B. Merims

Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: london@SunSite.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: Thistles
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:25:26 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.193335.12874@cbfsb.cb.att.com> eroth@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (elizabeth.s.roth) writes:
>
>Per the AG specialist at our local Extension Service, mowing thistles will
>_NOT_ kill the root.  The root will simply send up a shorter stalk for the
>next batch of flowers and the leaf base (at ground level) will spread.  
>To eliminate thistles (which are a BIG problem here in Missouri), you will 
>have to kill them with some type of herbicide.

Well, mow it down before it goes to seed, plow it under and reseed the field
with some durable pasture grass! Or don't you think enough of your animals
and neighbors (and those downstream) to keep from befouling your nest and
theirs as well?
If you think it costs you too much to do that then what are you doing
keeping horses in the first place?
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Thistles, and Weeds in General
Date: 6 Oct 92 00:04:55 GMT
Organization: Wright State University

In article <1992Oct5.155116.8087@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>, lbm@avs.com (Linda B. Merims) writes:
> Are thistles a) perennials or b) annuals?  Do they spread via a) root runners,
> or only from b) seed?  If from seed, for how many years is the seed
> potentially active?  If b, I would guess persistent mowing at the right time
> would do it (provided one has a mower).  If a, the problem is a lot harder.
> I do know that thistles have very shallow roots.
> 

Thistles spread mostly by seed, some by root.  Since I'm a farmer's daughter
and have spent nearly a half century on and around farms..... GAD, has it
really been THAT long?.....  I'm used to grubbing, chopping and otherwise
mowing weeds and thistles.
Usually if you cut them down at the right time you have controlled the 
problem.

> On the same subject, does anybody out there know a good, big "weed" book?
> I want to be able to:
> 
>  - identify the weeds
>  - learn about their ideal growing conditions and growing season
>  - learn about issues of perennial vs annual and the other questions
>    I asked above
>  - learn what organic things one can do to control them (vary pH,
>    mow like a daemon, plant something else with them like an aggressive
>    grass)
> 
> All the books I've seen have only one thing to say about weeds--which
> herbicide to use to kill them.  Evidently in times past, pastures were
> maintained in good condition by rotating different grazing animals with
> different tastes onto fields at different times of the season.  (They used
> pigs to plow it up!)  I don't have that option, but I'd rather not "nuke"
> a whole field.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Linda B. Merims
> 

I'll have to check my Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening and get back to you
on this.

Sue
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: gammb@b8.b8.ingr.com (Bob Gammage)
Subject: Re: Cresote Source ?
Summary: CoOp Has it, but careful
Organization: Intergraph
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 02:43:36 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.181949.71@taney.uscghq.uscg.mil>, roseberry@taney.uscghq.uscg.mil writes:
> 	on a pier, and telephone poles.  Couldn't find it in the store.
> 	Has cresote been banned ?  Would it be possible to make your own ?

	Not too long ago, I needed some cresote to put on the tops of my
	fence-posts where they'd been cut on a 45 at the top.
	I was advised by the CoOp that Cresote is now considered (in many
	states including Tenneessee) to be a hazardous chemical and that I'd
	need a "Chemical Card" to buy creosote.  My County Extension agent
	informed me that obtaining one consisted of coming the extension
	office and watching a 15 minute video.  Fortunately one of my
	neighbors gave me some sound advise prior to my making the appointment
	to get my card.
	Any time there is a case of polution, the environmentalists gather
	up a list of all the local Chemical Card holders as possible suspects.
	His advise was that if I wanted to avoid becoming a political target
	(innocent or guilty) I'd find some other solution than cresote, or
	failing that, he'd buy it for me on his card.
	There are some water-based tar-like products available from your
	local farm-store that would work nicely without the unpleasant side-
	effects of cresote and the corresponding chemical-card.

	Just my $.02 .

--
       o------------------------------------------------------------o
       |Iiii doe wanna werrr kyjes wan do bain gone de drum zawl day|
       o---------------------------o--------------------------------o
       |     ___                   |                                |
       |     |             Rock    |           Bob Gammage          |
       |     L__ >______   Bottom  |   Unix Technical Consultant    |
       |   _/   \_|    |   Farmin' |     Intergraph Corporation     |
       |  [L| O |______|           |                                |
       |    \___/    (o)       HaG |    gammb@shifty.b8.ingr.com    |
       o---------------------------o--------------------------------o
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Cresote Source ?
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:20:28 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <1992Sep27.181949.71@taney.uscghq.uscg.mil>, roseberry@taney.uscghq.uscg.mil writes:
> 
> 	We have an old fencing that is fading in color.  Originally many
> 	years ago we used cresote to finish that fence.  Cresote was a
> 	cheap black - oily substance, also used on railroad ties, pilings
> 	on a pier, and telephone poles.  Couldn't find it in the store.

> 	Has cresote been banned ?  

	Yep!

>	Would it be possible to make your own ?

	NOPE!
	Check some farm supply stores.  There are good substitutes.

> 

> 	- Bert Roseberry
> 	
> 	  roseberry@taney.uscghq.uscg.mil
> 
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: bever@csd630a.erim.org (Dave Beverstock)
Subject: Re: Cresote Source ?
In-reply-to: roseberry@taney.uscghq.uscg.mil's message of 27 Sep 92 18:19:48 EST
Organization: Environmental Research Institute of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan
Date: 28 Sep 92 10:52:45

Sometimes I've heard of creosote being called "carbolineaum" (sp??).
I've used the carbo on fenceposts etc. just like creosote.

The carbo burns your skin if under prolonged contact....

Good luck

dave
--
Dave Beverstock   bever@erim.org
Environmental Research Institute of Michigan (ERIM)
P.O. Box 134001  Ann Arbor, MI  48113-4001 313-994-1200 x2239
Newsgroups: misc.rural,rec.gardens,bionet.plants
From: Lawrence.London@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Lawrence London)
Subject: Misc.rural & rec.gardens FAQ's available at new FTP & mail site
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 01:36:00 GMT

The following FAQ's are available via FTP from:
    sunsite.unc.edu

Documents are located in:
    /pub/docs/sustainable_agriculture/miscrural
    /pub/docs/sustainable_agriculture/recgardens
    /pub/docs/sustainable_agriculture [general information]

Those without access to FTP may e-mail me your requests
for files and I will send them to you.

Any new FAQ's, FAQ updates or other documents may be sent
to the collection via FTP or to me by e-mail.

Misc.rural:

buyingruralland.faq     ruralhomes.faq          ruralorganizations.faq
handtoolsources.faq     ruralinfo-misc.faq      ruralsuppliers.faq
ruralbooks.faq          ruralmagazines.faq

Rec.gardens:

bulbs.faq        gardensoft.faq   roses.faq
fertilizers.faq  peppers.faq      seedcats.faq

Lawrence

london@sunsite.unc.edu
lawrence.london@bbs.oit.unc.edu



--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: eroth@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (elizabeth.s.roth)
Subject: Re: Thistles
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 14:34:34 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.203613.4514@desire.wright.edu> sbishop@desire.wright.edu writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.153422.29958@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, eroth@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (elizabeth.s.roth) writes:
>> In article <BvGsGq.C77@news.orst.edu> tinsethg@ucs.orst.edu (Glenn Tinseth) writes:
>>>In the process of making a list of the things we need to do to get
>>>our 10 acres ready for livestock (just for us i.e. a couple of sheep,
>>>2-3 weaner hogs, etc), I noticed that a pasture that horses were on for
>>>the last couple years is loaded with thistles. They seem to grow to 
>>>3-4 ft tall and have pink flowers that turn to fluff. Is it foolish to
>>>think that I (and any unsuspecting visitors) can manually get rid of these
>>>suckers over the next season or so? It's too late to avoid them going
>>>to seed this year.
>>>
>>> (some deleted)
>>>
>>>Glenn


>> 
>> You will find it difficult to do by hand.  The best method, IMHO, is
>> to build, borrow or rent a field sprayer.  Go out and mow the pasture
>> and then go back and spray the entire pasture with whatever weed spray
>> is recommended for thistles (I forget what we used :-).  You will probably
>> have to do this 2-3 times but it will be effective.  We did it to 15 acres
>> that had turned almost entirely to thistles and had nice grass before
>> summer's end.  The next year it just took some spot spraying with a hand
>> sprayer to keep everything in order.
>> 
>> BTW, get the horses and livestock off the pasture for 3-7 days after you
>> spray, depending on the product.  
>> 
>> 
>> Susan


>
>NO!!  Give your animals and your environment a break and mow the thistles.
>As long as you mow before they go to seed you will not have a problem.
>Just mow them down a couple times a year and you will have nice grass
>just about as soon as if you had used weed killer and it is much safer!
>
       (sad CROP-DUSTING story deleted)
            ============
>
>I don't weed spray ANYTHING around my horses.  I used a weed whacker instead.
>
>Sue


I believe you should have used IYO (in YOUR opinion).


Susan
-- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> Education never helped morals ... the    -- WILL           (all the usual   <
> smarter the guy, the bigger the rascal.  -- ROGERS          disclaimers)    <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
From: donb@crash.cts.com (Donald Bowen)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: john Deere 40
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:17:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: crash.donb.717783459


  
John Deere 40
Test No. 503   Sept. 9 to Sept 17, 1953
 
     2 cly. 101 CID gasoline.  5.00-15 front tires and 9-34 rear. 
4569 lb. test wt.  23.51 max belt HP at 11.16 HP hrs per gal. 
17.43 HP Max drawbar and 9.38 HP hrs per gal at 4.43 MPH and 5.67%
slippage.  Low gear max pull was 3022 lbs.  
 
 
John Deere 40 S
Test No. 504   Sept. 9 to Sept 23, 1953
 
     2 cly. 101 CID gasoline.  5.00-15 front tires and 10-24 rear. 
4201 lb. test wt.  23.21 max belt HP at 11.27 HP hrs per gal. 
17.05 HP Max drawbar with 10.2 HP hrs per gal at 4.69 MPH and 6.22%
slippage.  Low gear max pull was 2543 lbs.
 
 
John Deere 40 C
Test No. 504   Sept. 9 to Sept 23, 1953
 
     2 cly. 101 CID gasoline.  Tracklayer design.  4669 lb. test
wt.  23.64 max belt HP at 11.61 HP hrs per gal.  15.08 HP Max
drawbar with 8.33 HP hrs per gal at 2.92 MPH and 1.57% slippage. 
Low gear max pull was 4525 lbs.
 
 
John Deere 40 S ALL-FUEL
Test No. 546   June. 3 to June 10, 1955
 
     2 cly. 101 CID gasoline.  5.00-15 front tires and 9-24 rear. 
4169 lb. test wt.  19.13 max belt HP at 10.50 HP hrs per gal. 
14.35 HP Max drawbar with 4.05 HP hrs per gal at 4.05 MPH and 6.1%
slippage.  Low gear max pull was 2511 lbs.

	For parts, look for tractor junk yards.  There are several over
the country.  There were enough JD 40s built thatt there would plenty of
used parts.

	DonB
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: tfisher@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Tom Fisher)
Subject: Re: Cresote Source ?
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:17:33 GMT

From article <92Oct6.124600edt.217@smoke.cs.toronto.edu>, by enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel):
> bill@chaos.cs.umn.edu ( Hari Seldon     psychohistorian ) writes:
> 
>>creosote is considered a carsonogen. 
> 
> Aw, it's not that bad.  Just don't get it on your skin or breathe the fumes
> in an enclosed place.  It smells kinda nice in low concentrations.  Apparently
> they use it in certain cough drops (no wonder they taste so gross...)
>
My father-in-law (he was a maintainer on a railroad for 30+ yrs)
burned used railroad ties (creosote treated) in an open fireplace
in his home for many, many years.  I don't recall anyone in his
family being adversely affected.  I also don't recall ever seeing
any termites around his house :-)

Tom
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Thistles
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Date: 3 Oct 92 20:36:13 EST
Distribution: usa
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <1992Oct2.153422.29958@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, eroth@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (elizabeth.s.roth) writes:
> In article <BvGsGq.C77@news.orst.edu> tinsethg@ucs.orst.edu (Glenn Tinseth) writes:
>>In the process of making a list of the things we need to do to get
>>our 10 acres ready for livestock (just for us i.e. a couple of sheep,
>>2-3 weaner hogs, etc), I noticed that a pasture that horses were on for
>>the last couple years is loaded with thistles. They seem to grow to 
>>3-4 ft tall and have pink flowers that turn to fluff. Is it foolish to
>>think that I (and any unsuspecting visitors) can manually get rid of these
>>suckers over the next season or so? It's too late to avoid them going
>>to seed this year.
>>
>> (some deleted)
>>
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Glenn
>>-- 
>> Glenn Tinseth                                 Chemistry Department
>> tinsethg@ucs.orst.edu                      Oregon State University
>>     Brewing all the beer I drink, drinking all the beer I brew.
> 
> 
> You will find it difficult to do by hand.  The best method, IMHO, is
> to build, borrow or rent a field sprayer.  Go out and mow the pasture
> and then go back and spray the entire pasture with whatever weed spray
> is recommended for thistles (I forget what we used :-).  You will probably
> have to do this 2-3 times but it will be effective.  We did it to 15 acres
> that had turned almost entirely to thistles and had nice grass before
> summer's end.  The next year it just took some spot spraying with a hand
> sprayer to keep everything in order.
> 
> BTW, get the horses and livestock off the pasture for 3-7 days after you
> spray, depending on the product.  
> 
> 
> Susan

NO!!  Give your animals and your environment a break and mow the thistles.
As long as you mow before they go to seed you will not have a problem.
Just mow them down a couple times a year and you will have nice grass
just about as soon as if you had used weed killer and it is much safer!

One of my friends lost a beloved horse the day after her neighbor had his
field crop-dusted.  The horse was pastured in a field where the spray
evidently drifted.  She went out the next morning and he was down in his
stall.  They couldn't figure out exactly what was the problem with he
seemed to have been foundered, perhaps by the crop-dust spray.  He had
to be destroyed.

I don't weed spray ANYTHING around my horses.  I used a weed whacker instead.

Sue
From: waltervj@coos.dartmouth.edu (Walter V. Jeffries)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Cresote Source ?
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:58:37 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH


You can make your own cresote by cleaning your chimney.  Very toxic stuff.
It will kill all of the plant life in a patch of ground if you spill it...
We used the cresote mixed with water to prepare a post* we sunk in concrete.
Hopefully it will work well... :) It is the center pin of our greenhouse.
Good luck,
-Walter

*It's a bit bigger than a fence post since it is over 40' long and the
minimum diameter is 28".  We estimate the weight at about 4,000 lbs.
You should have seen us lift it, with block and tackle, into place!
From: agnew@gems.vcu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: RE: thistles
Date: 5 Oct 92 09:05:43 -0400
Organization: Medical College of Virginia

This thread about thistles reminds me of grubbing 45 acres of thistles when
I was little..  Took me several weeks, but two years of it, and the thistles
were GONE, man.. for several years after that..  Memories....  Got any 10-yr.
old kids???  ;-)  builds mucles so they don't get picked on.  didn't work for
me tho..  

-- 
         /^^^\   \ /   Jim Agnew         AGNEW@RUBY.VCU.EDU  (Internet)
        /      >  ||   Neurosurgery,     AGNEW@VCUVAX        (Bitnet)
   /\_/     '   \  /   MCV-VCU           This tape will self destruct in
 /________________>    Richmond, Va      five seconds.  Good luck, Jim..."
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: donb@crash.cts.com (Donald Bowen)
Subject: International 300
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:27:18 GMT

Here is the Nebraska tractor test data on the International 300.
 
The International 300 utility was built from 1955 to 1956.
 
International 300 utility gasoline
Nebraska tractor test 539
Tested May 5 to May 10, 1955
 
Weight 4413 lbs.  4 cylinder 169 cu. in. engine rated at 2000
RPM.  Forward speeds 2.6, 3.97, 5.36, 6.86, and 16.74 mph.
Torque amplifier speeds are 67% of direct drive. 
Low gear maximum pull of 4379 lbs at 2.19 mph with 16.93%
slippage.  29.87 hp at the drawbar with a 2194 lb pull at 5.11
mph and 6.18% slippage in third gear.  Fuel economy of 9.53
horsepower hours per gallon of gasoline.  Maximum engine torque
is 286 foot pounds at 1212 RPM. Max belt 38.78 hp at 11.42
horsepower hours per gallon.
 
International 300 utility LPG
Nebraska tractor test 539
Tested May 5 to May 10, 1955
 
Weight 4413 lbs.  4 cylinder 169 cu. in. engine rated at 2000
RPM.  Forward speeds 2.6, 3.97, 5.36, 6.86, and 16.74 mph.
Torque amplifier speeds are 67% of direct drive. 
Low gear maximum pull of 4467 lbs at 2.27 mph with 14.24%
slippage.  30.39 hp at the drawbar with a 2193 lb pull at 5.2 mph
and 5.11% slippage in third gear.  Fuel economy of 8.06
horsepower hours per gallon of gasoline.  Max belt 40.77 hp at
9.42 horsepower hours per gallon.


	DonB