HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dchatterjee@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Issues(?) with IMustafa, people, animals, vegetables, minerals
Date: 2 Jan 93 16:31:24 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <OAF.93Jan2151911@tissot.ai.mit.edu>, oaf@zurich.ai.mit.edu 
>(Oded Feingold) writes:
>...... (deleted)......
> 
> 3.  I have seen several references to MSA as a gang of terrorists and
> 	assassins for hire.  If MSA has a spokesperson, that person
> 	should protest such negative characterizations.
> 	Unfortunately, silence indicates at least subliminal consent.
> 	
> 	By the way, has anyone actually committed violence in the name
> 	of MSA, or is this accusation just a scurrilous slander?
>

  The # 3 seems to be true, as, The Almighty MSA-net contains of terminators
  who act like sharks. At least MI's earlier posting, which I have saved, does
  say so. (In fact I have all of his earlier postings, and, feel that the
  postings - on abusive language, death-threats etc. violate the USENET RULE
  and can be dealt with.) Particularly, when *he* uses the name of MSA-net to
  pride in sending death-threats from Saudi Arabia, is quite serious. I think
  it amounts to *misuse* of Federal property and hence is punishable as may
  be according to Federal laws. This is my opinion. 

  Probably you might have a more different interpretation, and, I would stand
  corrected.

     Happy New Year,

     - deb chatterjee
    (a good samaritan) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Subject: Re: Moslems
Reply-To: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 02:48:16 GMT

In article <1i5dsvINNove@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, rajesh@juniper (Rajesh Raman)
writes:
> Javed Ahmed Khan (jakhan@IASTATE.EDU) wrote:
> : 
> :   There might have been a few incidents of rapes but I donot believe
> 			    ^^^
> :
=============================================================================
>  
>  You will be well advised to read the latest issue of Time mag. on this
subject.
>  The UN and many human rights and womens organisations have documented
systematic mass rapes of *thousands* of women, most of them being mulsim women
along with a few Croat women. These crimes have been and are still being
committed by Serbs in Bosnia. Th> ere are reports that women are being
deliberately being raped and confined till they deliver unwanted Serb
impregnated babies. Girls as small as 6 yrs. old have been repeatedly gang-raped
for days and many have died in the ordeal.
> 
>  ->>I'm sorry I will surely read it. But I don't know how much that would
>  ->>help. In your article, you warned people not to listen to everything
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>  ->>that is spewed out on TV or from the press. What should I listen to and
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>  ->>what shouldn't I ? And why should I trust the western media about
>  ->>Bosnia and not when it comes to Iran ?




I didn't write the original article and so I didn't say any such thing.




>  
>  These reports have been filed by your favourite western news agencies and
human
>  rights organisations and so are not necessarily Islamic propaganda.
> 
>  ->>Javed, western news agencies are not my favourites. In fact, it's
>  ->>quite the opposite. I'm sorry if I'd given that impression.




I'm sorry I didn't mean to be sarcastic to you specifically. I meant to 
point out the fact to the traditional muslim bashers on the net.  




> 
> --
> 
> Rajesh Raman
> 
> --


--Javed.
From: "faraz rabbani" <faraz.rabbani@canrem.com>
Subject: re: private education in
Reply-To: "faraz rabbani" <faraz.rabbani@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: soc
Date: 26 Dec 92 17:49:29 EST

To: khan@ces.cwru.edu (Mansoor Khan)
    
 MK> Vaa-laikum-best-regards and Christmas Mubarak,

 MK> Education system in Pakistan is such that middle class is taught
 MK> in its Islamiat class in grade nine, that "Alraashi Val-murtashi
 MK> Kullaa-humaa fin-nar" i.e. People who take and give bribes
 MK> will both get the hell fire.  But, do you think people like
 MK> Zardari go thru same classes. No, he is a St. Patricks Drop-out.
 MK> Oh, please dont tell me about his educational achievements in UK :-)
 MK> In other words, people who finally get the control of Govt. etc
 MK> in Pakistan are never told in their education that what is wrong
 MK> with taking rishvats( Commissions) :-)

Well...  While you are talking about the state of education in
Pakistan.  Let me give you another example: it is possible, at an
expense of around 20,000 rupees to buy totally complete (academic
record, legitimate transcripts, etc.) degrees from Pakistani
universities... sad, but very true...

 MK> Pakistan needs mass education. How we are gonna get money
 MK> to do this. Take money from people like Navaz Sharif( who took
 MK> out billions of loans from Govt. Banks during Zia's time and never
 MK> returned a paisaa) and Zardari( who collected 10%) and
 MK> Gauhar Ayub( future President of Pakistan who was the biggest
 MK> rishvat khore of 60's) and open schools in Jehlum, Tharparkar,
 MK> and haripur. There is enough money in Pakistan, but it is
 MK> stolen by Shiyateens.
 
And we do not collect taxes from the higher classes...


Faraz Rabbani

... Limit M.P.'s to two terms..1 in Parliament & 1 in jail.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:19053 soc.culture.indian:42580 soc.culture.bangladesh:7247
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: The Quran and the Modern Science
Date: 2 Jan 1993 15:56:33 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1i2gd0INNhd0@aludra.usc.edu> fafat@aludra.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat) writes:
>
>>Note:  Allah presents the signs in Quran with a clear qualification.
>>The signs are ONLY for those who "understand", "reflect", and who
>>"ponder". 
>
>	Very convenient disclaimer by Muhammad, I say! 

Here is the "actual" disclaimer that Allah tells  Muhammad to give  those who
dispute the signs that He has presented in QUran.

Sura 3:

20. But if they dispute with you, say: I have submitted myself
entirely to Allah and (so) every one who follows me; and say to
those who have been given the Book and the unlearned people: Do
you submit yourselves? So if they submit then indeed they follow
the right way; and if they turn back, then upon you is only the
delivery of the message and Allah sees the servants.

Note: The only reponsiblity of a PROPHET is
 to be the deliverer of good tidings to those who believe, and
warner of punishment to those who disbelieve!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: "faraz rabbani" <faraz.rabbani@canrem.com>
Subject: re: muslim nation (re: bo
Reply-To: "faraz rabbani" <faraz.rabbani@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: soc
Date: 27 Dec 92 22:44:56 EST

 JAK> I wanted to add that I personally don't support one group creating a
 JAK> state because their's is the majority religion. But what is going on in
 JAK> Bosnia is clearly unacceptable and sitting back and doing nothing to
 JAK> stop the killings because of the fears that an "Islamic" state will be
 JAK> created is a negation of the ideals of free earth and the ideals of
 JAK> human rights. 
 
But the Muslims are not fighting just for an "Islamic State" (which
you, for your own reasons, dislike) but for self-determination.
What form this self-determination takes is their own sweet
business. 

Faraz Rabbani

... Politicians are people with too little ethics to remain lawyers.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: imran@panix.com (Imran Anwar)
Subject: PakistaNews Text Files Until GIF Color Restarts Soon - #0104
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 22:11:41 GMT
Organization: IMRAN: Information & Media Resources, Affiliations, Networks


BYORN MEETS AKRAM ZAKI

The Deputy foreign Minister of Greece.  Mr. Byron Ploydoras, called on the 
Secretary General Foreign Affairs Mr. M. Akram Zaki, today at the foreign 
office.

NO ENDEAVOUR EVER FOR US AID

The Prime Minister, Mian Mohammad Nawaz Sharif, declared saturday evening 
Pakistan government has always endeavoured to resolve all conflicts and 
grievances between various groups in afghanistan and it has always provided 
economic aid to Afghanistan after its independence.

SPECIAL HAJ QUOTA FOR INDUSTRIAL WORKERS 

The Federal Government has reserved 700 seats (by air only) for Haj 1993 for 
the workers of industrial organisations/units both in public and private sector 
which have the collective bargaining agents.

NAWAZUS JIHAD AGAINST DRUGS A BOLD STEP

Prime Minister Mian Muhammad Nawaz Sharif has initialed a bold step by 
launching a jihad against narcotics, declaring 1993 as the Anti-Narcotics Year, 
it was stated here by Ch. Javed Iqbal Cheema, MNA, while addressing a largely 
attended rally arranged by Sargodha Police to condemn the drug abuse.

RS. 10 M ALLOCATED FOR NEW WARDS IN MENTAL HOSPITAL

The provincial government had allocated an amount of Rs. 10 million for the 
construction of new rooms and wards in the Mental Hospital, peshawar.

ONE THERMAL UNIT, WAPDA MANAGEMENT TO BE DECENTRALISED

The Federal Finance Minister Senator Sartaj Aziz today said that the government 
had not taken any decision in principle for the principle for the privatisation 
of Water and Power Development Authority

PEACEFUL NEW YEAR IN SINDH

Federal Defence Minister Syed Ghous Ali Shah has said due to positive policies 
of the present government peace has been restored in Sindh.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: engp2154@nusunix2.nus.sg (SYED SHAHZAD SHAH)
Subject: Just a test.
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 05:20:46 GMT

Ignore it. It is just a test.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: dbose@aem.umn.edu (Deepak Bose)
Subject: Re: Imbecile Annons' Questions. ( Was Re: Moslems@)
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 19:46:15 GMT

imustafa@slate.mines.colorado.edu (MUSTAFA IBRAHIM ) writes:

>I would like to try it with your mother.

	I GUESS YOU DIDN'T LIKE YOUR MOTHER VERY MUCH .

				MY POOR MUSTAFA !
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Pakistan: what can be done?
Date: 23 Dec 1992 12:39:45 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <8224@news.duke.edu> shafqat@neuro.duke.edu (Saad Shafqat) writes:
>when it comes to effecting change.  Therefore, you have a limited
>number of options:
>
>1.  Attain elected office.
>2.  Attain a grade 21 or better post in the civil service.
>3.  Become vocal about your ideas in the media - this will only work
>    if you're a journalist, celebrity or distinguished academic.
>
>Now let's say you took the CSS and eventually became secretary of
>education in the federal government (it doesn't matter what you become

There is a major practical problem with all of these approaches:

By the time you have achieved any of the above, you are no longer
your present you. By that time, you would have lost your imagination,
will be utterly disillusioned, and will be just like some other
Pakistani elite.

The peer pressure, including the pressure transmitted via your
begum as she socializes with other begumaats, would be enormous.
The poor idealist would be lost. The new sahib would be madly
 after the latest model of the car,
 that wonderful plot on the foothills of Margala,
 that opportunity for the tour to France or USA, for the
      summer shopping spree of the begum sahib,
	 .......

This is a practical problem. I have seen several people going down
the drain through this road. 

Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:18891 soc.culture.indian:42127 soc.culture.bangladesh:7147
From: naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen)
Subject: Re: Rejoinders to Nishit Dey.(Re: Victory Day in Bangladesh).
	<BzJo08.HKw@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
	<1992Dec20.140738.45813@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 06:52:22 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Dec20.140738.45813@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> dchatterjee@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:

	 from where Jammat-i-Islam is getting funded in Bangladesh ?????
----
A lot of their funding comes from middle eastern sources.



	  - good luck pakis,
----		      ^^^^^
Deb bhai,
You made a lot of good points about 1971. Why weaken your point and divert 
attention from the core arguments by using this term? When a skinhead gang
beat a Bangladeshi primary school kid in Brixton to death, they called him
a "f***ing paki". We are all pakis to the whites in London, Liverpool, etc.
Bangladeshis have actually received support from Pakistanis and Indians
in protesting the death. Perhaps not a term we should be using for each other.

--
Naeem Mohaiemen
216 774-1993
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"America says you got to have money to live and to get money you got to have
 a job. To get a job, you got to have an education. So along comes a Black
 man and he gets a worse than inferior education so he can't qualify for a 
 job he couldn't get because he was Black to begin with and still he's supposed
 to eat, keep his family together, pay the rent and buy an Oldsmobile.
 And white folks wonder why niggers steal and gamble."
				[H.R. Brown, 1967]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: salama@topaz.ucq.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: The Quran and the Modern Science
Date: 31 Dec 92 14:09:47 AET
Organization: UCQ

In article <1ht93lINNjpd@nyquist.usc.edu>, shivanan@nyquist.usc.edu (Mr. Shivanan Bhajekar) writes:
> Posting for FFT:
> 
> In article <1992Dec30.193629.14616@news.nd.edu> milind@agni.cc.nd.edu (Milind Saraph) writes:
>>fafat@aludra.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat) writes:
 
>>.......(deleted)..... 
> 	For one, the postings by Salam/Mustafa have been extremely hazy. 
> 	Secondly, Salam proclaimed that the Prophet knew about everything
> 	as it was a divine revelation. He CANNOT make such a claim and at
> 	the same time bring in Science. If he wants to deal with pure faith,
> 	that's fine. Just don't denigrate Science and scientists like
> 	Hawking. You can define "perfect" as "that which is like Quran".
> 	IMO, that's cheating.:)

     May I bring in poetry, literature, philosophy, sociology, ... along
with divine revelation? Is science some kind of taboo? Or is science some
kind of the holy of the holy not to be touched by the people who talk about
religion?

> 
>> .....(deleted)......
> 
> 
> 	It's been pointed out repeatedly that imagination need not be
> 	constrained by existing knowledge. The classic cases are Verne and 
> 	Wells. Does that imply they had divine connections? Salam still
> 	insists on the naive interpretations of B. 
> 
      You call it "naive" interpretations and I call it a scientists'
interpretations. Science is no longer a taboo in religion. People like
Dr.B and Paul Davies (theoretical physicist who wrote "the mind of Gad")
are talking about God and religion. Keep up with the latest developments. :-|)



> 	FFT
> 
> 
> 
    Salam
    (means paece)

> 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: hasan@cs.washington.edu (Shams Hasan)
Subject: Re: Cross posting in soc.cul.Pakistan
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 01:29:53 GMT

In article <8223@news.duke.edu> shafqat@neuro.duke.edu (Saad Shafqat) writes:
>In article <1992Dec22.140937.45855@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> mausoof@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>>
>
>
>>	I am writing this letter after intense frustration at finding not even
>>a single posting of interest. If I offend anyone, I hope he/she understand the
>>hopelessness of my position.
>>						Saqib Mausoof
>
>
>Saqib bhai, your attitude is a little hard to stomach.  What gave you the
>idea that scp was specifically required to cater to *your* interest ?
>There is no reason for you to get upset if your interest is not to be
>found on scp.  You don't pay this newsgroup and it doesn't owe you
>anything. It isn't the government of Pakistan, you know.  I have been
>following scp for over 2 1/2 years now, and I do agree it has seen
>better days when the quality of the exchange was more dignified and 
>substantive.  But I don't think we should get frustrated at that.
>What seems mediocre to you and me may appear high-class to someone
>else.  Your frustration may be someone else's constant fountain
>of pleasure.  If you don't feel happy with the content of scp, you
>can only blame yourself.  Lead by example.  Don't expect scp
>subscribers to dish out entertainment tailored to your taste; if
>you want that, write more often yourself and like-minded people
>will be encouraged to write in response. 
>
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Saad.
>
>
>-- 

Dear Saad,

I am of the same mind as you are. However, it would help if either Saqib,
yourself and others can begin a thread, that can have sustainence and
substance.

At this moment, to me literacy and spread of information technology seem
to be at the top of the list for Pakistanis today. 

I know now that computers in general and pc in general are getting more and
more popular in Pakistan, especially Karachi. However, computer pc applications
such as DTP, spreadsheets, wordprocessing, and games use will limit the 
motivation for software engineering and programming amongst the present generation.

How can this opportunity of information technology be further used by people
with the expertise from the west, is something of interest....


Best Regards,
Shams Hasan.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
From: hasan@cs.washington.edu (Shams Hasan)
Subject: Re: Shams Hasan, stop the blasphemy
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 06:12:57 GMT

In article <BzoxLw.7nD@news.cso.uiuc.edu> nd3375@meibm5.cen.uiuc.edu (Nishit Dey) writes:
>sadhal@alhena.usc.edu (Sati Sadhal) writes:
>
>
>>Mr. Hasan: 
>
>>	You have to stop putting blasphemy on the NET.
>>	As a person from the subcontinent, I am ashamed of you.
>	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>	But you, nevertheless, wish to dissociate from your
>>	Mahenjdaro-Harrappa-Indus-Ganges heritage for whatever
>>	reasons. 
>
>
> 				----- Satwindar Singh Sadhal
>
>
>HI Satwindar,
>
>
>	I think you don't read Mr. Hasan's postings very carefully.
>In every posting he reminds us that he is  not an ordinary person.
>He is a pakiAMERICAN. In his every posting he atleast devotes one
>paragraph, describing how well he is getting along with his country
>men (Americans) and what they think about the third world countries,
>irrespective of whether it is relevant or not to the current discussion.
>I think it is very offensive on your part to call him a person from our
>Subcontinent.
>        Listen to him carefully and agree with him. He can never be wrong.
>Afterall he is an American.
>
>
>Nishit

Dear Mr. Ni shit,

I donot know how closely you have been reading my articles, but, if you were
reading it carefully, you would notice that this guy wether being an American
of Pakistani birth and heritage, wonders why on earth do people like you and
this Singh guy, who have yet to send an article about Pakistan that shows
they have even visited it, let alone known what Pakistani culture, issues are
continuing to post here.

Spare me of your mumbo jumbo on Americana and Desi stuff. Belligerency is good
for kids, shows they will grow up with some spunk. For adults it is lunacy of
the mentally deranged and semi-comatose.

Now, if you guys want to tackle some things like possible improvements in our
education system at the Intermediate level in Pakistan, or another aspect of
the society, I am all EARS......

Best Regards,
Shams Hasan.




















































Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: hasan@cs.washington.edu (Shams Hasan)
Subject: Re: Moslems@
Summary:  We may have not hit bottom yet....
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 07:03:01 GMT

In article <1992Dec25.045548.24739@fuug.fi> an3923@anon.penet.fi writes:
>
>
>I am from Turkey and I noticed that there is something very funny
>about all the world conflicts. ( I am not a practicing moslem)
>
>Israel-Palestinian issue ( Moslems Vs Jews)
>Cyprus Problem           ( Moslems Vs Catholics)
>German Ethnic trouble    ( Moslems ( Turks) Vs Germans)
>Bosnian issue            ( Moslems Vs Christians)
>Iraq - Kuwait strife     ( Moslems Vs Moslems)
>Iran - Iraq              ( ditto)
>Iraq Vs Kurds            ( ditto)
>Indian temple issue      ( Moslems Vs Hindus)
>Burmese ethnic problems  ( Moslems Vs Buddhists)
>Malaysian ethnic trouble ( Moslems Vs Chinese)
>Somalian problem         ( Moslems vs Moslems)
>Armenia                  ( Moslems Vs christians)
>
>
>	Almost every conceivable problem in the world is caused by moslems.
>Also, undoubtably all the major barbaric regimes in the world are run by
>Moslems ( Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait, Yemen, Iran, Pakistan just to name a few)
>and the major terrorist nations ( except Cuba) are all moslem ( Pakistan, Iran,
>cyria, Lybia, Jordan). Turkey is the ONLY moslem country which is secular.
>What does this tell us about our religion and our culture? It makes me wonder!
>
>
>Irfan Ahmed
>Sys. Admin., Calico Tech.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
>Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
>and an anonymous id will be allocated automatically. You have been warned.

Dear Irfan Ahmed,

Turkey was the largest ever terrorist state in the history of mankind. It
terrorized the whole north Africa (which has produced countries like Libya,
Algeria etc.), the whole of Arabia (which has produced Saudi Arabia, Palestine,
Iraq etc), and kept terrorizing in the name of Islam, namely, the Khalifat and
mamelukes were the biggest tyrants.

Only due to your proximity to Europe and influence from western civilization
has Turkey learnt something. Which btw is a meager little bit, as you are
also responsible for the plight of the poor Kurds.

Yes, granted Islam seems to be at most places where repression, intolerance and
brutal regimes reign, but , then Islam is only about 1400 years old. 

So, maybe this will help your sense of balance: At AD1400 Christianity was at
its darkest ages and no one could dream of what the Christian nations enjoy
in the west today.


So, now then, shower us with your accumen.....

Best Regards,
Shams Hasan.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: varma@sbnsld.physics.sunysb.edu
Subject: RE: Bangali boys make good servants (Re: Victory Day in Bangladesh!!!
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook, Nuclear Physics
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 17:18:19 GMT

I wonder what is the aim of such postings. Are they constructive in any sense
or do they help the net in any manner apart from releiving the frustrations of
persons who post these kind of things. Whether or not Bengali boys make good
servants is not going to help anyone on the net. If someone's parents are
happy with them maybe they should write to their parents to give those boys
a raise. I am sure that no one reading such rubbish is ever going to apply
anyone as servants. If they were in a position to employ someone be it bengali
or any person they wouldn't be writing such crap. I would suggest that such
people should look for someother outlet for their frustrations.
By the way I am not Bengali but I feel that we are wasting our talents and time
by such nonsense
Raghava Varma
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:18893 soc.culture.indian:42131