HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: prasanth@ecn.purdue.edu (Ravi K. Prasanth)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Desires
Date: 22 Jan 1993 09:55:18 -0800
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: gap.caltech.edu

Hello,

Toshi writes :

> I don't mean to discourage you, but I am having trouble understanding the
> meaning of your post.  Could you please elaborate your logic?
> Namely, could you say how it is illogical and how it violates the
> 2nd law of thermo?

My Reply:
--------
In article <1jg2n7INNjks@gap.caltech.edu>, abulsari@aton.abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:
> > We normally desire toys of some kind - children desire their kind
> > of toys, we desire other kinds of toys. In any case, we don't 
> > know what is good for us and what is not. Thus it is not a good
> > idea to desire something. 
> 
> I do not wish to get into this discussion (as it is beyond my
> powers of reason). Just want to point out that the conclusion is 
> illogical and that it violates the second law of thermodynamics.

Here's an argument similar to what Abhay wrote:

1. I dont know whether God exists or not.
2. If God exists and I believe in God, then it is okay.
   But if God exists and I dont believe in God, God will 
   send me to hell. 
3. So it is a good idea to believe in God.

In these and similar arguments, one progresses from a state
of maximum information-theoretic entropy (not knowing anything)
to a state of lower entropy (being capable of making a decision)
without external influence which violates the second law of
thermodynamics. For a precise connection between information
and thermodynamic entropies, refer papers/books on Maxwell's
Demon (Brillouin : Science and Information, Leo Szilard, etc).
>From a mathematical point of view, it can be shown using the
concavity of entropy functional that the two states are indeed
characterized by two different probability distributions. But
the change has no logical basis. The logical conclusion from
Abhay's premise ("We dont know what is good for us and what
is not") is "We cannot decide whether to desire something or
not".

RKP
From: kish@kish.rutgers.edu (Kish)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: The Weakest Link (Re: Pleasure.....)
Date: 20 Jan 1993 21:52:57 -0800
Organization: ----
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: gap.caltech.edu

In article <1jk7tlINNavm@gap.caltech.edu>, fstawit@icomp01.lerc.nasa.gov (Tawit Chitsomboon) writes:
> 
> The circular chain of Dependent Origination can be cut loose at
> any joint but many believe that the sensation joint is the weakest
> link of them all. That is when sensation arises; give notes of it;
> contemplate on its nature; and don't be its slave.  Trouble is
> we have been addicted to sensations through out our life span 
> and are automatically forced to respond in a programmed way and 
> are forever entrapped by them.
> 

This reminds me of shamatha meditation except you're working with
sensory stimulus instead of thoughts.  I guess this isn't too
surprising given that "thinking" is regarded by many Buddhists as a
6th sense organ. 
	Aside from breaking through habitual cravings, another aspect
of what was termed "uglification" would be to work towards
purification - to train our awareness to disambiguate the hope/fear
complex that tends to be embedded within a habitual pattern from the
actual stimulus.


Yours in Dharma,
-Bill
-- 

PHONE: (908) 932-5026
UUCP : {ames,att,harvard}!uunet!rutgers!jove.rutgers.edu!kish
INTERNET: kish@jove.rutgers.edu
From: raj@globe1.att.com
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: revelations or lack thereof...y
Date: 24 Jan 93 20:48:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1993Jan25.094535.23943
Organization: AT&T

Tawit writes:

> ... may i say that i think buddhism did not originate in India,
> nor was the Buddha Indian. Back then, there was no such thing
> as India (as well as Hinduism).

	[Nor now, perhaps, some would say]
	
	But, let us go back more in time.
	Back then, there was no such thing as universe, I .....

	Only Buddha IS. Or perhaps Buddha IS not.
	Only Buddha knows. But Buddha is beyond knowledge.

	[Buddhism originated; is, or is not.
	 Buddha is without origination.]
	
	
---raj
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From:  orc@sybase.com (Orc)
Subject: Re: Polyamory and friendships
Reply-To: ss19@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Department of Ambiguity
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:37:07 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.055518.2883@fuug.fi> an2839@anon.penet.fi (Archer) writes:
>orc@sybase.com (Orc) writes:
>>    Communicate.  Bail out if you feel that you're a threat, and
>> being sexual with Debbie isn't as important as remaining friends
>> with David or keeping their relationship intact.
>
>I want to keep my friendship with them both.

   Bail.  If it's not vital for you and Debbie to become/remain
intimate *right* *now*, it's not that much trouble to back down and
wait for things to settle.  Sex with friends isn't usually
something that you have to do right now, it's perfectly reasonable
to wait.  Of course, David will know that the two of you fancy each
other to death, but it's somewhat reassuring to know that ones
fears are being paid attention to.  (This is also assuming that she
wishes to keep the relationship going as well.  If she doesn't,
welcome to emotional mayhem, and I'd suggest that you run like a
rabbit so you won't get caught in the disaster.)


                 ____
   david parsons \bi/ orc@sybase.com
                  \/
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: sa121@cl.cam.ac.uk (S. Arrowsmith)
Subject: Re: Appearances on and off the net (was Re: Why I read a.s.a.r)
Reply-To: SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk
Organization: Glad to be Sad
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:00:37 GMT

In article <30891@castle.ed.ac.uk> sara@festival.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing) writes:
>It should further be added that when ever such spod-isms as "operating
>system", "486 box", "Motif" and (dare I say it) "parallel processing"
>are uttered at such an event (ie. a Dave&Alex soc.bi party), the
>perpetrator is liable to be tied up with his/her own anorak and severly
>tortured with libations of chocolate frog in the navel, or some other
>suitable punishment.  You have been warned!
>
That's supposed to be punishment?  I'll have to try and find an anorak
from somewhere....

(Anyway, who'd want to talk about Motif????)

--
\S
SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk | "Internet is so big, so powerful and pointless that for
        ___         |  some people it is a complete substitute for life."
        \X/         |     -- Andrew Brown, The Independent
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: an2839@anon.penet.fi (Archer)
Subject: Re: Mike's Sex Drive (was Re: grumble)
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: soc.bi
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 06:12:42 GMT

litterst@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Stephen Litterst) writes:
> >Gee, why don't I ever get offers like that?
> ><Grins and wanders back off to sleep...>
> >
> >-Points (Lechorous dragon with poor spelling skills.)
> >-- 
> 
> Hey, you and me both!  Tell you what... you can come prove me wrong any time
> you want.  There, you've gotten your offer.   :)

sigh.  The disadvantages to being anonymous.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
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From: diana@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Diana Bental)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Biphobic girlfriend!?!
Keywords: help!
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:49:15 GMT
Reply-To: diana@aiai.UUCP (Diana Bental)
Organization: AIAI, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

Well, I'm a heterosexual woman who's been in a mutually monogamous
relationship with a bisexual man for several years, so I sympathise
with you and your girlfriend.

It seems to me that you're doing the right things, being honest about
who you are and what you want. I have a couple of suggestions that
might help her to understand and feel happier about your bisexuality.

First of all, include your girlfriend in your "gay/bisexual" social
life.  Don't have a totally separate "gay" life (with them) and
"straight" life (with her). Dave went to bisexual group meetings and
conferences without me, but he did invite me along so I didn't feel
excluded. I have been to a couple of bi conferences with Dave. Dave
says that he liked going to *some* of the discussions without me,
which is fair enough, but I would not have wanted to feel that Dave's
"gay/bisexual" life was entirely hidden away from me.

Also, we both went to our local bisexual group's Sunday lunchtime
socials, and what with parties, trips to the country and general
socialising, many of Dave's lesbigay friends became my friends too.
So the short answer to your problem is to invite your girlfriend along
to the Gay Games!  If she would not be welcome then the biphobia
problem is in the gay community, not your girlfriend. And if *you*
don't want her there, well, I think she would have a right to worry
about your priorities.

Second, give your girlfriend time to get used to what you're saying to
her. It needs time for her to be really, *really* sure that you mean
what you say when you tell her that you are happy to be in a
monogamous relationship with her. There is a lot of prejudice and
misunderstanding about a relationship between a woman and a bisexual
man. Even some bisexuals believe that bisexuality must imply
non-monogamy sooner or later, so don't blame your girlfriend for
feeling uncertain and insecure about what bisexuality means to you. I
did too! The only way to prove to her that you mean what you say is to
keep your promises and pile on the reassurance.

Anyway, good luck to both of you. I know from experience it *can* work
out, so there's hope!

Diana
======================================================================
Diana Bental,                      JANET: diana@uk.ac.ed.aisb
Dept of Artificial Intelligence,   ARPA:  diana@aisb.ed.ac.uk
University of Edinburgh.           UUCP:  ...!ukc!aisb.ed.ac.uk!diana
From: bethan@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Bethan Davies)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: soc.bi Frequently Answered Questions (FAQ)
Date: 23 Jan 93 00:18:15 GMT
Followup-To: soc.bi
Distribution: soc.bi
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <1993Jan20.160442.26195@infodev.cam.ac.uk> gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk writes:
>In article <1993Jan20.153427.26758@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> kay@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Kay Dekker) writes:
>>
>>Hehehe... but, Guy, *we're* working on *you* :)
>
>Oh yes?  <smiles nervously>  How exactly?  Telepathy?  Voodoo?  Subliminal
>messages in your postings composed from invisible control characters?
>(Thinks... maybe *that's* why they're called "control characters"...)

Why do you think the government invests all this time and money in 
cognitive science research.......

What _did_ you think went on in the basement......

                 
                                   Bethan
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: litterst@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Stephen Litterst)
Subject: Re: I'm in hell... or at least Purgatory...
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:34:21 GMT

In article <C19DoK.318@ucunix.san.uc.edu> jonesek@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Erik Reid Jones) writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.223339.25875@udel.edu> litterst@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Stephen Litterst) writes:
>>In article <C17sq8.IAF@ucunix.san.uc.edu> jonesek@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Erik Reid Jones) writes:
>
>Thanks, I'm beginning to feel as though I need it.  Theatre?
>Great!  So many wonderful, artsy people around here.  I'd be
>curious to know just how many of the people on soc.bi are in
>some area of the fine arts and applied arts...  Thanks for the
>support, and while I'm not a frequent poster (yet) I certainly
>read with avid interest to keep up with the culture... God
>knows it's practically non-existent here (in the open)...
>
>Erik Jones
>
Well, I'm a Theatre Production Major concentrating in electrics, with a minor
in Applied Instrumental Performance (trumpet).  God (and Melanie DeMent)
willing I'm going to add a Voice Minor to all of this.

				Steve L.


-- 
| Stephen C. Litterst           |*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*|  
| kyraan@bach.udel.edu          |       More man than you'll ever be...   |
| litterst@pecan.cns.udel.edu    \   More woman than you'll ever get.     |
|_guido@gnu.ai.mit.edu____________\ ______________________________________|
Xref: sparky soc.bi:19305 soc.motss:58647 alt.homosexual:692
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss,alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: gay phone company
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:32:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1993Jan26.223242.9990
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

I just called Working Assets, a corporation that does long distance
service and PC Visa cards. I don't know much about their long distance
program, but they have a reasonable Visa card. They also donate part
of their profits to progressive charities (specficially which
charities are chosen by the cardmembers).

The phone number for application information is:

1-800-522-7759
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/        You stupid vulgar greedy ugly American death sucker
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: bryant@icd.teradyne.com (Wayne Bryant)
Subject: Re: I'm in hell... or at least Purgatory...
Reply-To: bryant@icd.teradyne.com
Organization: Teradyne, Inc. Boston MA
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:56:20 GMT

In article IAF@ucunix.san.uc.edu, jonesek@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Erik Reid Jones) writes:
>I mean, the arts out here are quite nice (I'm attending
>the Cincinnati Conservatory of Music) but the political
>atmosphere is deplorable.

Boston has three great music schools.  Come back to the land of the living!

					Wayne



Newsgroups: soc.bi,alt.polyamory
From: safarj@aix.rpi.edu (Jonah Emanuel Safar)
Subject: Re: Set the WayBack Machine (Coming Out)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:43:07 GMT

moragw@castle.ed.ac.uk (Alloy Serving Woman) writes:


>OI! I'm a biker and I don't have a beard.  Or a beer belly.  Or a bike
>at the moment which is a _very_ sore point.  Hmmph.

>Mo

Well... I've got a ten speed and a suede jacket...
-Points ("No %&#^'ing brakes, get off the sidewalk!" Dragon)
-- 
________________________________________________________________________________
 If the President won't do it to his wife, he'll do it to his Country. -Unknown
________________________________________________________________________________
Jonah E. Safar             R.P.I., Troy, NY              EMail to:safarj@rpi.edu
From: smoir@world.std.com (Scott A Moir)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: stupid sex question
Date: 27 Jan 93 11:46:55 GMT
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

>In article <1993Jan24.184623.21778@midway.uchicago.edu> h431@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>Do people with long fingernails abstain from such sexual practices?
>>Do they wear latex gloves?  Do they have partners who are looking for 
>>consentual cuts?

Latex gloves don't deal really well with a good set of claws. There are
polyurethane gloves and such that do work well, however. They aren't as
form fitting, but they are quite smooth. They work great for fisting.

If you don't use gloves, short nails (read as no nails) are a must. The
thought of someone going after my tail with long fingernails makes me
shrivel. :)

You really should use gloves, though. The texture of most gloves allow for
longer play time. One of my loves gets sore very quickly with skin if you
are using more than 2 or 3 fingers, really fast if you use the whole hand.
Gloves allow for a nice long session of 'abuse'.

Have fun!

Scott


-- 
Scott Moir  /  Satyr on IRC    ______ # "There's really only one requirement 
smoir@world.std.com            \ \/ / #  for a Prophet, and you've got it."
B4 f t+ w g k+(+!) s+ m r p+    \/\/  # "What's that?"
Also: pentangl@ursa-major.spdcc.com   # "A mouth." - 'God' to J.R.'BoB' Dobbsl
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: gratuitous mumbling
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 10:59:02 GMT

In article <2224@ontek.com> john@ontek.com (John Alan Stanley) writes:
: ObBiRelevance : is there any sort of correlation between Being
: Queer(tm) and a liking of one's appearance/wanting to maintain a
: good figure ? (More on the male side, especially) Just odd how my

No.
From: cen@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Sandman Seductions
Date: 25 Jan 93 02:49:09 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620


> I'm hooked too.  I mainly blame Tanaqui, but I think the equally wicked
> Sara also had something to do with it.

<smile> We make a good team.

Tanaqui-the-rushed-off-the-Net
From: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Party Face, Net Face was Appearances on and off the net
Date: 23 Jan 93 18:40:48
Organization: Natural Language Incorporated
	<1993Jan19.121946.14730@infodev.cam.ac.uk>
	<1993Jan23.112220.16955@thelema.uucp>
	<1993Jan23.154817.11109@infodev.cam.ac.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk's message of Sat, 23 Jan 1993 15:48:17 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.154817.11109@infodev.cam.ac.uk> gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry) writes:
>In article <1993Jan23.112220.16955@thelema.uucp> STella@thelema.uucp (STella) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan19.121946.14730@infodev.cam.ac.uk> Guy.Barry@cl.cam.ac.uk writes:
>>>In article <C10tJ8.HD0@demon.co.uk> gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
>>>>that people are expected to respect your space and no-one is expected
>>>>to do anything they don't want to, but the fact is that soc.bi events
>>>>seem to always take on an overtly sexual nature.  Don't get me wrong,
>>
>>How is this different from any other part of life except, perhaps,
>>working?  

>Eh?  How does doing the shopping or cleaning the house take on "an
>overtly sexual nature"?  (The mind boggles...)

Me, I clean in the nude...*grin*.  Some people seem to get excited
watching other people work in the nude, I'm not sure why...*GRIN*.

As far as shopping goes, it can depend on what you're shopping *for*,
eh?  It's particularly fun shopping for clothes with a woman I'm lusting
after...or who's lusting after me, of course...we can (and have!) go
into the dressing rooms together (I do this with my male SO when I can,
but it's harder).  Even grocery shopping with her was pretty sexual for
me, but maybe that's just me...*grin*.  If nothing else, you can always
discuss the possibilities inherent in vegetables.

Muffy

--

Muffy Barkocy                      |~Never had a lot of faith in human beings/
muffy@mica.berkeley.edu            | but sometimes we manage to shine/like a
"amorous inclinations"? Aha! I'm   | light on a hill beaming out to space/from
not "not straight," I'm *inclined*.| somewhere hard to find~ - Bruce Cockburn
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: kamal@specialix.co.uk (Kamal Mortoza)
Subject: Re: phrases and sex roles
Organization: Specialix International, London
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 10:19:44 GMT

sthor@ctp.com (Sarah Thornburg) writes:

>In article <iw.727554128@tosser> iw@tosser.Rational.COM (The_Devine_Dolly) writes:
>>kamal@specialix.co.uk (Kamal Mortoza) writes:
>>
>>>YES - I agree completely. Alice and I are a mixed gender couple, but 
>>>certainly not a hetrosexual couple.
	I should have phrased this more carefully, that sentence was in 
response to one point about definitions for couples of mixed gender. The 
follow on was regarding the point of gender oriented role-playing. I did NOT
mean to imply that only non-hetro couples can break the mould. We have known
some straight couples that do - one to the point of complete reversal. But I
can see - now that I look at what I wrote - that one could misinterpret what
I was trying to say.

Kamal
>>>Why shouldn't I do the cooking,
>>>washing, etc ? Why shouldn't she play baseball with our boys ? Ofcourse,
>>>we have both done it this way.
>>
>>There seems to be an implicit assumption here that heterosexual couple
>>equates to traditional patriarchal man/woman roles.  
>>I do not think that this is fair or accurate.
>>
>>Iseult.

>Too true!  I know plenty of couples, who, if we're playing the "sorting into
>bins" game, are heterosexual - neither are interested in
>"homosexual/bisexual relations", ie are exclusively attracted to / involved
>with motos,  - but who are very "liberal" and rarely follow "tradiational"
>male/female roles.  They're still heterosexual.

>*Sarah*  :)  (knowing full well that she doesn't want to get drawn into the
>definitions quagmire, but can't resist this)
>-- 
>Sarah Thornburg                    | "Love that dirty water.... 
>Cambridge Technology Partners      | Boston you're my home." 
>sthor@ctp.com                      |   
-- 
kamal@specialix.co.uk          ______ 
h- B(5) f+ g k+ s+ m+ r pv     \   _/____   If it feels good - do it!
				 \ \    /                    - Dr Ruth
                                     \/
From: J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Blatant birthday information! :-)
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:50:58 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

TXK025@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Eddie Chandler) writes:
>
>Sorry everyone, just couldn't resist spilling the beans
>about my birthday tomorrow.
>I will be the ripe old age of 25! :-(
><sob> I want to be 21 again!

Happy belated birthday Eddie... (that's the trouble with the net, it takes
a couple of days for messages to get everywhere).


/jon (a whole 13 days away from being 25:-)
   ___________________ ____ ________________________________________
  / -- Jonathan Harley \  /_    And they covered up the sun        //    //  //
 / J.W.Harley@ncl.ac.uk \/ /   until the birds had flown away...  // // //////
/_Phone:UK 091 222 8504__\/___________________________________///////////  //
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: kay@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Kay Dekker)
Subject: Re: Why I won't "dance" (was Re: Why I read a.s.a.r.)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Warwick University, England
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:11:16 GMT

In article <9301262156.AA17192@pizzabox.demon.co.uk> gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
>Possibly part of the reason I'm a very poor party animal is that I just find
>no pleasure at all in dancing to anything written after 1959, and there are
>damn few parties that play even a middling amount of rock&roll.  And not
>that many people who want to jive anyway.

Remind me to get you invited when my mother throws a party.  No sex -
nay, no handholding unless you're wed or intended - and ability to dance
the Velveeta (or whatever it's called) is the sine qua non...

				Kay


-- 
the Crisco Kid: quiet, shy, mono, Armani-suited.  Not.  idx009@uk.ac.cov.cck
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: yal@cltr.uq.oz.au (Yvette Lian)
Subject: Re: soc.bi Frequently Answered Questions (FAQ)
Organization: Centre for Language Teaching and Research, Uni of Queensland, AUSTRALIA.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 06:34:28 GMT

In article <1jft51$pj1@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>->	You do not need to be bisexual to post here and be welcomed.
>->Indeed, several of the frequent posters to soc.bi are straight; some
>->others are lesbian or gay. However, if you are straight and post here
>
>Oh, really? Didn't know about them.  Who are they?

I call myself a dyke these days.  Maybe one day I'll call myself bisexual,
but not today.  I doubt I'll ever identify as being straight.  
So now you know - I'm not bi, yet I post here :)


--
Yvette Lian
yal@lingua.cltr.uq.oz.au 
FIDO: 3:640/352 
IRC nick: Maxine2
Newsgroups: soc.bi