HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ccgwt@trentu.ca (Grant Totten)
Subject: Re: So, which Holmes is it?
Reply-To: ccgwt@trentu.ca (Grant Totten)
Organization: Trent University
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:00:10 GMT


I sincerely hope it is of the Sherlock variety...

Speaking of Sherlock Holmes, this is Sherlock Holmes week on A&E!  Heaven!
I've been glued to the TV at 9:00pm every night this week.  Absolutely
wonderful!  Jeremy Brett is the *perfect* Holmes.  I am currently reading
the 'complete Sherlock Holmes' and Jeremy Brett is the person speaking
in my head while I read.  

Last night's episode was "The Blue Carbuncle".  I especially liked Holmes'
outburst of anger when Watson chastised him for letting the criminal go:
"I am not retained by the police!  To cover their inadequacies!"  It was 
delivered with more 'fire' than I had expected (I had just read the story
about a week ago).  But, in retrospect, Jeremy Brett was totally in character
for that outburst.

I liked the nice touch at the end when Holmes is putting the Carbuncle in
his desk, he places it between his cocaine syringe and the photograph of
"the woman".  :-)

Holmes-ally,

Grant

Grant Totten, Programmer/Analyst, Trent University, Peterborough Ontario
GTotten@TrentU.CA            Phone: (705) 748-1653   FAX: (705) 748-1246
========================================================================
A fool-proof method for sculpting an elephant: first, get a huge block
of marble; then you chip away everything that doesn't look like an
elephant.
From: vsummers@polaris.cv.nrao.edu (Vince Summers)
Subject: Holmes and Watson Preferences
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory
Distribution: alt.fan.holmes
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 21:35:39 GMT

     Allow me please to say that I much prefer Rathbone/Bruce.  While not quite
true to the stories, I think Rathbone portrays the SPIRIT of Holmes much more
adequately.  Brett is technically closer perhaps.  Certainly the stories are
more literal, but he doesn't capture the spirit.  Watson is not like the
storybook character much, but is an institution in himself.

Vince Summers
vsummers@polaris.cv.nrao.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.holmes
From: beede@sctc.com (Mike Beede)
Subject: Re: Shocked ...
Organization: SCTC
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:57:29 GMT

linley@qucis.queensu.ca (Richard Linley) writes:

>In article <1992Sep9.202305.16543@sctc.com> beede@sctc.com (Mike Beede) writes:

>>I don't ever remember Holmes killing anyone, except Moriarity.  There
>                                                           ^
>This isn't intended as a spelling flame (ugh!), but it's interesting to note
>how often Moriarty's name is pronounced as if it had this extra "i" in it.

>I even saw a commercial for some appalling made-for-TV thingy recently in which
>"Moriarity" was pronounced this way.  Is this an American phenom?

>	Richard.


I think I really know how to spell this, but you're right -- that's
the way I pronounce it.  I notice that the ``eh'' phoneme sort of
creeps right in -- it's as if my tounge ``thinks it ought to be
there.''  So it's at least an American Midwestern phenom (I assume
that ``phenom'' is a British phenom)?




-- 
Mike Beede         Secure Computing
beede@sctc.com     1210 W. County Rd E, Suite 100           
------------------ Arden Hills, MN  55112
                    (612) 482-7420
Newsgroups: alt.fan.holmes
From: huston@access.digex.com (Herb Huston)
Subject: Re: So, which Holmes is it?
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 14:21:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.213932.28456@samba.oit.unc.edu> Chuck.Lavazzi@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Chuck Lavazzi) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.185204.28101@news2.cis.umn.edu> kencham@ulysses.cs.umn.edu (Deepak) writes:
>>|> >
>>|> 
>>
>>Okay !!!!! For starters, here are a couple of Qs. about him
>>
>>a. What's SH's full name ?
>	Just Sherlock Holmes, as I recall (but I may be recalling wrong).

It is conjectured to be William Sherlock Scott Holmes.  Furthermore, it
is conjectured that his father's name was Siger, and his mother's Violet.

>>b. SH claims to be related to a famous painter. Name him
>	Vernet.  Can't recall the first name. ("Art in the blood.." and all
>that)

Antoine-Charles-Horace Vernet (1758-1836).  Dr. Verner, who bought Watson's
medical practice, is thought to have been a cousin descended from another
Vernet who escaped France at the time of the Terror and anglicized his name.

>>c. Holmes was married. ( Yup ! Its implied ). Can you give the approx.
>>   period when he got married ( i.e before _Study in Scarlet_, between
>>   the Watson years,or later ..). If anyone knows his wife's name or her
>>   whereabouts, please expound ..... (I dunno :( )
>	THIS one you're going to have to justify.  I don't recall anything
>in the Canon that actually implies this and it's certainly never stated.
>How did you come to this conclusion? ("Data!  I must have data!") >:-)>

A conjecture based on some of the Master's disparaging remarks on the
married state.  The reasoning is that he'd have had to have been married
at some time to have drawn the conclusion.  I find this weak.

His reunion with The Woman and their parentage of Nero Wolfe is far more
plausible.

>>d. Which of the short stories, was ACD's personal favorites ?
>>
>	I believe it was "Speckled Band" but I wouldn't swear to that.

Correct!  It placed first in his "top twelve" list, but stories from _The
Casebook_ were excluded from consideration.

-- Herb Huston
From: Chuck.Lavazzi@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Chuck Lavazzi)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.holmes
Subject: Re: The Best Holmes Stories
Date: 15 Sep 92 14:44:43 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

In article <1992Sep15.041523.4095@sdcrsi.cray.com> kathyli@sdcrsi.cray.com (the Rev. Mom) writes:
>Since I seem to be spending all my time on this group :-), I
>figured, what the heck.
>
>There's this book called THE UNCOLLECTED SHERLOCK HOLMES that is
>sold by Penguin.  (My source was the Penguin bookstore
>in Covent Garden).  ISBN 0-14-006432-X.  The prices on the back
>are listed for UK, Australia, New Zealand and Canada.  Guess
>what's missing. :-)  I've tried ordering it from the New York
>branch, but they say no go. The copyright on it's 1983, and my
>reprint's from 1988, so you might be able to find it if you've
>got sources.
>
>It contains two special-occasion items, that are 2-or-3 page
>stories with Holmes and Watson throwing some witty repartee back
>and forth, a (really long) stage-play adaptation of "The Speckled
>Band" entitled "The Stonor Case", another stage adaptation of
>"The Mazarin Stone", called "The Crown Diamond", lots of
>prefaces, a speech about Holmes on the screen, stray articles,
>interview, an unwritten plot, and J.M. Barrie parodies that are a
>scream if you're a J.M. Barrie fan. [When talking about his
>cricket team, the Allahakbarries in later years, Barrie said, "..Conan
>Doyle was the only exception to the depressing rule that the more
>successful were the members of my team as authors, the worse they
>played."]
>
	I may be mistaken, but it's my understanding that "The Mazarin
Stone" is actually an adaptation *from* the stage of "The Crown Diamond".
It certainly reads like a stage play and (unlike all the other stories)
is told in third person.  It's pretty hackneyed stuff, in any case.
Obviously written by Doyle instead of Watson! >:-)>
[remainder of very informative article deletted]

>------------------------|  "It is one of the elementary principles of practical 
>kathyli@sdcrsi.cray.com | reasoning," he remarked, "that when the impossible
>------------------------| has been eliminated the residuum, *however improbable*
>                          must contain the truth.    --"The Lost Special" 
Chuck
No .sig, no frills, no foolin'



--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.fan.holmes
From: bhatia@snow-white.ee.udel.edu (Sunita K. Bhatia)
Subject: Re: HBO Holmes?
Keywords: langella 
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Distribution: USA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 21:48:04 GMT

In article <!cxn-hk.dsmythe@netcom.com> dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe) writes:
>In article <1992Sep11.132050.6109@news2.cis.umn.edu> jill@gopher.ccbr.umn.edu (Jill Hollifield) writes:
>>Does anyone remember a Holmes play on HBO within the past 10 years
>>starring Frank Langella?
>>
>>Or am I just hallucinating?
>
>No, I remember seeing it.  It was 1982.  HBO was not even 24-hours yet,
>and came on the air in the afternoon.  I remember because I had built
>a microwave receiver to get HBO in my dorm room at the U of MN, and
>that was one of the first shows I was able to receive...
>
>I wasn't impressed by him.

About five years ago, Langella played Holmes in a disasterous play that
I saw at the Kennedy Center in DC.  I think it was called "The Last Case."
Dreadful.  It was supposed to be a comedy of sorts, but every single 
character was out of character and exaggerated (I know in a comedy it's
done to make you laugh, but it was done poorly here).  Watson switched
back and forth from being a buffoon to being a calculating genius, there
was the Victorian lady who Holmes had to rescue from the evil Dr. Moriarty,
Holmes makes a number of impossible escapes from the "jaws of death" (ala
James Fenimore Cooper), and ends up falling in love with (and marrying!)
the damsel in distress.  It was so bad the "culturally aware and polite" 
audience let out howls of "Boo!" at the end.

On the other hand, maybe my trip to DC was a hallucination.  ;-)

----- Sunita Kumari (NOT Calamari) Bhatia
----- bhatia@ee.udel.edu
----- Disclaimer:  I don't speak for the University of Delaware 
-----			or DuPont, and they don't speak for me.
From: beard@toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu (Patrick C. Beard)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.holmes
Subject: Re: So, which Holmes is it?
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:50:53 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of California, Davis

In article <1992Sep9.152835.13624@news2.cis.umn.edu> kencham@ulysses.cs.umn.edu (Deepak) writes:
>[deleted]
>Hope there is enough enthusiasm.For starters, any comments on the .sig ?
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Sherlock Holmes observed that ".. After you have eliminated the impossible, only the possible, however improbable, remains..". I, however, do not like to elimin-
>ate the impossible. And so I believe, Holmes and Watson were gays.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wrong, Watson was married. Holmes could have been... Jeremy Brett's portrayal
is slightly effeminate. However; Conan Doyle seems to have portrayed Holmes
as essentially lacking in the capacity to engage in romantic personal relation-
ships, so I'd argue with you on that too.

- Patrick Beard


Newsgroups: alt.fan.holmes
From: louns@cs.washington.edu (Michael Lounsbery)
Subject: Re: A&E Sherlock Holmes Week
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 17:18:07 GMT

(bill davidsen) writes:
>
>Brett is a bit more arrogant and just plain weird than
>Rathbone, and I think he strays from the true character.

Brett certainly goes for the weirdness in Holmes, but it's pretty amazing
how much of it is in Doyle.  For example, a few years ago, in "The Second
Stain," Brett actually barked while searching an apartment.  I thought that
just had to be too silly, so I looked it up. Sure enough, the original story
had something about Holmes uttering an animal noise at that point (I forget
the exact wording, it may have even said "barked").  In this case, Brett did
exactly what the story said, though the effect was very weird indeed.

Michael Lounsbery
louns@cs.washington.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.holmes
From: Chuck.Lavazzi@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Chuck Lavazzi)
Subject: Re: Why Brett is soooo goooood.....
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 03:34:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.233232.11123@news.columbia.edu> nsh3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Nadine S Harris) writes:
>
>In article <naran.716068777@sfu.ca> naran@fraser.sfu.ca (Travers
>Naran) writes:
>
>> ......  from [The Hound of the Baskervilles], I
>>gathered the following facts:
>>
>>1. Watson was quite a clever man. Not the dullard as portrayed by Bruce in
>>those 1940's and 50's shows. In fact, he seemed to be almost an intellectual
>>equal with Holmes except having more emotion.
>
>Possibly not as bad a Bruce, who made a career playing superannuated
>chinless wonders (in the Thirties and a few Forties, btw), 
>but Doyle himself is on record saying Watson was
>"rather stupid."  He was surprised anyone should find him more than
>a foil for Holmes.
>
>This is not the way Granada wanted to approach it.  From a dramatic
>point of view, the Nigel Bruch approach is very limited.  They came
>up with a very charming Watson, and this falls in line with the
>current crop of buddy movies, so perhaps it appeals to us late 20th
>c. movei-goers.  But although it might be fun, it isn't what A.C.D.
>had in mind.
>
        I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree.  I'm unaware of the quote
in question (do you have a source?), but it's pretty obvious from reading
all of the Canon (as I have, several times) that Watson was intended as a
sort of Victorian "everyman"; the lens through which the reader would view
Holmes, the eccentric genius.  It's no accident that nearly all the stories
are written in first person.
        Watson does not generally come across as particularly dim, although
he certainly is not up to Holmes' level (few people are!), and is generally
a strong right arm in a fight.  This is another reason why Nigel Bruce was
such a travesty as Watson.  The Canonical Watson is a relatively fit, stocky
man (although when he met Holmes he was "thin as a lathe and brown as a nut"
from his service in India) and certainly not the overweight bumbler portrayed
by Bruce.  He was also a pretty good shot, apparently.  All things
considered, both Burke and Hardwicke have been pretty accurate Watsons in
the Grenada series.
        Probably the best Watson (and best Holmes-Watson relationship) can be
found in the 1965 British film "A Study in Terror", which pits Holmes against
Jack the Ripper.  John Neville and Donald Huston are a (fairly young) Holmes
and Watson.  Their relationship is a pleasure to watch; a genuine friendship,
which is obviously what Holmes and Watson must have had.  The movie also
boasts great settings and costumes and a fine cast including Anthony Quayle,
Robert Morley (as Mycroft), Frank Finlay, and Georgia Brown. 

>Nadine
Chuck
No .sig, no frills, no foolin'


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.fan.holmes
From: tssmith@netcom.com (Tim Smith)
Subject: Re: Shocked...
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 17:15:02 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Sep9.163035.15364@nntp.uoregon.edu> eric_gorr@coglab_psych.uoregon.edu (Eric Gorr) writes:
>When you first started to read holmes, were you as shocked as I was that he
>was a drug user (cocane and morphine) in the novel The Sign Of Four?  

No.  Drug use (mainly cocaine and opium (in the form of laudanum)) was
very common in the 19th century.  Drugs were not regulated at all in
England, and in much of the US.  The early formulations of Coca-Cola
were reputed to contain small quantities of cocaine.

>This totally blew my whole conception of the man when I read it.  

I think it is made clear that Holmes was often affected by boredom (not
enough clever criminals), and that he took drugs to alieviate his
boredom.  I don't think this would have shocked a 19th century audience.
From: sane@cs.uiuc.edu (Aamod Sane)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.holmes
Subject: Re: A&E Sherlock Holmes Week
Date: 9 Sep 92 18:45:57 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL

torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen) writes:

>In article <1992Sep9.170552.25326@ra.oc.com> mvick@hp835.mitek.com 
>(Marty A. Vick) writes:

>   >I believe his name is David Burke. He makes an excellent Watson.

>  Hmm..this doesn't sound familiar. As I think of it, I think the actor
>playing Watson to Jeremy Brett's Holmes is called Hardwick or Hardwicke.

There have been at least three people I know of playing Watson -

Burke, Edwin Hardwicke, and the third guy whose name I cannot remember.

QOTD:

Inspector:Is there any other point to which you would wish to draw my attention?
 Holmes:  To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time.
 Inspector:  The dog did nothing in the night-time.
 Holmes:  That was the curious incident.

-- 
sane@cs.uiuc.edu
         ==         / \  
-----    ==    *    \_/     -|||- 
         ==     
Newsgroups: alt.fan.holmes
From: dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe)
Subject: Nicholas Meyer
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 18:34:46 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

What do you folks think of Nicholas Meyer's books?

The ones I can remember (coorect me if I'm wrong):

"The 7 Percent Solution"
"The West End Horror"
"The Private Life of John H. Watson"

D

-- 
========================================================================
Dave Smythe   N6XLP    dsmythe@netcom.com (also dsmythe@cs.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.holmes
From: bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton)
Subject: Re: A&E Sherlock Holmes Week
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, Arizona
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:04:27 GMT

In article <MJM.92Sep14115732@beach.cis.ufl.edu> Michael Murphy <mjm@reef.cis.ufl.edu> writes:
>Sherlock Holmes?  Shit, i thought this group was for JOHN Holmes fans.
>Oh well.

I thought it was Oliver Wendell Holmes, myself...

Good thing it's not.

Has anyone noticed that, despite all the Conan-Doyle
hoopla, Holmes isn't all that bright, and often simply
makes rash, generalized decisions which improbably cause
apparently innocent persons to confess regurgitatively?

In particular his views on women are entirely prejudiced.

				--Blair
				  "CFV: alt.fan.smith"
From: kathyli@sdcrsi.cray.com (the Rev. Mom)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.holmes
Subject: Re: Baker Street (comic book)
Date: 15 Sep 92 03:15:16 GMT
Organization: CRS San Diego UUCP Gateway

> camurphy@acsu.buffalo.edu (Cindy) writes:
>
>I wondered if anyone out there has seen the comic
>'Baker Street' which is kind of a 70's punk dyke 
>version of Sherlock Holmes (no direct adaptations of
>any of Conan Doyles' stories.)  What I'm looking for
>is a complete listing of any segments of the series
>that came out, on their own or in collections of other
>stuff, and since I'm located in the united states
>my access to it's all a bit limited.  

<snerk. Giggle. choke.>

Excuse me for being rude, but BAKER STREET's an American comic,
published by Caliber.  You should be able to find copies in any
reputable comics specialty store.  I suggest looking in the yellow
pages under "Books" or "Comics", and if that doesn't work, bop on
over to rec.arts.comics or rec.arts.comics.info--someone just
recently posted a list of shops.

There have been 10 issues of the comic, the last one, I believe,
about one or two months ago.  Unfortunately, Guy Davis is taking
a hiatus from the book to work on DC's "Sandman Mystery Theatre"
so there won't be any more for a while.

There was also a story in CALIBER PRESENTS, which I believe also
got reprinted in the BAKER STREET special, but I'm not completely
sure.  Ask on rec.arts.comics. Someone's sure to know over
there.

--Kathy Li aka the Rev. Mom
-- 
------------------------|  "It is one of the elementary principles of practical 
kathyli@sdcrsi.cray.com | reasoning," he remarked, "that when the impossible
------------------------| has been eliminated the residuum, *however improbable*
                          must contain the truth.    --"The Lost Special" 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.holmes
From: vsummers@polaris.cv.nrao.edu (Vince Summers)
Subject: Re: So, which Holmes is it?
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory
	<1992Sep9.232004.20140@news2.cis.umn.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:16:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.232004.20140@news2.cis.umn.edu> kencham@ulysses.cs.umn.edu (Deepak) writes:

   Newsgroups: alt.fan.holmes
Path: cv3.cv.nrao.edu!uvaarpa!caen!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!ulysses.cs.umn.edu!kencham
   From: kencham@ulysses.cs.umn.edu (Deepak)
   Sender: news@news2.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration)
   Nntp-Posting-Host: ulysses.cs.umn.edu
   Organization: University of Minnesota
   References: <1992Sep9.135303.12972@samba.oit.unc.edu> <TORKEL.92Sep9175514@bast.sics.se>
   Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 23:20:04 GMT
   Lines: 29

   In article <TORKEL.92Sep9175514@bast.sics.se>, torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen) writes:
   |> 
   |>   Voted? Surely alt groups have nothing to do with votes?

   I think one has to propose the new group to alt.config. Atleast that is the 
   netiquette.

   |> 
   |>   >Hope there is enough enthusiasm.For starters, any comments on the .sig ?
   |> 
   |>   Your .sig is idiotic.

   The issue of homosexuality, albeit not brought in the open, lurks in the 
   background and the impression I got was that in the Victorian days of SH
   there was nothing 'queer' about being a queer. If anyone has the time, 
   RHFKeating makes a detailed analysis of JSSH-JHW's homosexual relationship 
   in his book _SH, The Man and his Life_.

   Perhaps, its time for folks like Torkel to say 'n' to 
   "Enter alt.fan.holmes (49 unread)? " ;->

   \kerd
   -- 
   *********************************************************************
   *  Deepak R. Kenchammana-Hosekote               *******     ******  *
   *  Dept. of CSci, University of Minnesota        ***  *** *** ***   *
   *  1:((612) 626-8396(o),(612) 339-8997(r))       ***   *****  ***   *
   *  kencham@ulysses.cs.umn.edu                   *****        *****  *
   *********************************************************************


     Isn't it just a little silly to psychoanalyze a character from fiction
to determine if he was homosexual or not?

Vince Summers
vsummers@polaris.cv.nrao.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.holmes