HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dmsteven@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Doug Stevenson)
Subject: Netrekking remotely
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:10:09 GMT

Anyone with some good Unix and netting skills, please read:

Last quarter I was able to play netrek at the public NeXT computer lab site, 
but this quarter they diabled the Internet bridge, and I can no longer play at 
that lab any longer.  However, I can still play at the Sun labs.  And I can 
still telnet anywhere within the ohio-state.edu domain from the NeXT lab.  So I
was wondering if there was any way I could use a remote Sun to serve the 
netrek windows on the NeXT over the network.

Basically, what I'm saying is that I would like to play netrek on the NeXT's, 
but using a Sun in another lab (that I can telnet to) to serve the X Window.  
If anyone can help me with this, I would be REALLY grateful.  If anyone has any
ideas, please reply with mail because I can't keep up with this feed!  :)

                                                  Thanks,
                                                  Doug
Organization: Senior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 10:23:23 -0500 
From: Kevin Michael Bernatz <kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: How many +'s to use for carriers
	<63674@mimsy.umd.edu>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 25-Jan-93 Re: How many +'s to
use for.. Leonard Dickens@mimsy.um (2291)

>  Re: How many +'s to use for carriers

Is this not the stupidist thread?

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 25-Jan-93 Re: How many +'s to
use for.. Leonard Dickens@mimsy.um (2291)

> The conventions are:

There are no f*cking conventions besides 
ID : variable number of pluss's depending on how long you want to hold
down the key and how pissed off at your idiotic teammates

I don't ever post the exact number...if I have some scumbucket on my
team that will only ogg if his DI reward is sufficient than I certainly
don't consider him cluefull.  I know of no person who follows the
conventions that you listed.

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 25-Jan-93 Re: How many +'s to
use for.. Leonard Dickens@mimsy.um (2291)

> Finally, let me note the '-' convention: if a person drops all their
> armies on a planet and gets away, then it is OK to send the team:
>  F3->FED  2---

Again, I don't know anyone that uses this.  I use F2-- to signify that
he's no longer carrying 'cause I just Dooshed him (I tend to avoid
posting DOOSH's since it's not very polite :> ).  

	Before you start stating that something is a convention, I would advise
you to attempt to determine how many people use it.  5% of the
population hardly qualifies for a "convention".  I do believe that it
could *become* a convention, but as for the usefullness I could  care
less.  I will ogg a person who I consider more dangerous in the context
of more likely to drop his armies....since Spaceace+2 is more dangerous
than Tool+6.  

-KB
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig)
Subject: Re: Another scum wannabe
Organization: Indiana University Astrophysics, Bloomington, IN
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:38:15 GMT

In article <cfLw32O00Vor4MsmFS@andrew.cmu.edu> sg2r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Scott Parks Gourley) writes:
>Server: paradise.declab.usu.edu, port 2592 (New server)
>Last checked at 00:41:58 (4 minutes ago).
>
>There are 8 people playing here.
>
>  Type Rank       Name              Login
>F1 DD  Ensign     Twink             brandon@petersboro
>F5 DD  Ensign     guest             brandon@petersboro
>Fh BB  Ensign     M5                Robot@Nowhere
>Fi BB  Ensign     M5                Robot@Nowhere
>R0 CA  Ensign     Lynx              brandon@petersboro
>R2 DD  Ensign     guest             brandon@petersboro
>R3 DD  Ensign     guest             brandon@petersboro
>Kj BB  Ensign     Guardian          Robot@Nowhere
>
>
>CAUGHT!!!!!!!!!
>
>-Mike
>Admiral chi

I think not - that's the server god, and he's probobly testing something, given
his tendancies to twiddle with the server.
From: el0g+@andrew.cmu.edu (Erik Lauer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: I've found DD's niche in the game! (Was DD needs improvement.)
Date: 25 Jan 93 09:24:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.MfN3tgq00VpZI=QUYg
	<1993Jan22.234432.12681@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

peterm@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Peter Mardahl) writes:


>In article <106234@netnews.upenn.edu> paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
(Brian Paulsen) writes:
>>>In article <1993Jan21.190620.63021@cc.usu.edu> sl7sg@cc.usu.edu writes:
>>>]In article <1993Jan21.205121.24813@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>,
bdhall@todd.ecn.purdue.edu (Brian D Hall) writes:
>>>I almost always fly DDs and I've found that they are pretty good at
dogfighting
>>>against larger ships. They are especially the death of all those ensigns who
>>>learn to fly BBs and haven't learned how to use tractors. 30 pts a
torp isn`t
>>>much but it can add up quickly.
>>
>>Again, against clueless people, you can use any ship to get kills.
>>
>
>  I've found DD's niche!  You use DD's to get kills in clueless games,
>and THEN you can take planets more quickly, and generally rush around
>faster.  Because, if CA's aren't needed to dogfight, then the speed
>of a DD is an advantage.

No way.  The AS is way better here.  It is faster to get a kill with in
a low clue game (someone agressivly attacks you).  Now you take a
planet.  You get ogged on the way back.  Now you can take two or three
planets in one trip.  A DD can only carry 5 armies, and only 2 armies
per kill - the AS carries more  armies and bombs the planets faster
(lets not foget the planets will be doing most of the damage to you and
the 200 hull can be helpful) and better, with only slightly worse
cooling rate (your limiting factor in movement) and has 120 etemp
available as a bonus.

Erik
---=
From: meissner@space.bu.edu (Karl Meissner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Design Philosophy
Date: 27 Jan 93 01:26:00 GMT
Reply-To: meissner@space.bu.edu (Karl Meissner)
Organization: Boston University


Hi,

        I am working on a system which allows players to act as teams.
One of the biggest problems I have run into is a philosophical one...

1) What is the best way to present information that is happening at lot
of different locations at once?  (one problem is that too much information is
distracting)

2) How do I design in the ability of allowing (possibly physically separate)
players to act as a team?  (The more teamwork the better...)

Any 1) experience 2) literature 3) example systems would be greatly welcome.

                                        Karl Meissner
Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:45:03 -0500 
From: Greg K Chung <gc2n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Indying AGRIs

"Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> Ok, I'll attempt to create an alternate thread for those tired of the
> DD vs SC thing.
> 
> There have been a number of disagreements of neutralizing (making
> independent) an enemies AGRI.  The side for doing this says that
> dropping 4 armies will neutralize enemy army production for awhile and
> is worth it.  The side against this says that after you neutralize an
> AGRI, the enemy can drop 1 army.  Since AGRIs pop to 4 armies very
> quickly, the enemies 1 army has negated your 4.   
> 
> The first time I got involved in this debate was during an INL game
> (being on an @large team, this was a bad time to have the discussion).
> 
> Under what conditions is it ok to neutralize an enemy AGRI?  Sometimes
> (front line planets, or when ahead by a lot), Always, or Never?
> 
> Comments appreciated.
> 
>         joe
>         Purple haze
>         Lamb, Leg Of


This depends on a lot of things:

1)  Where is the planet; is it close enough, with resources, so that
you can defend it?

2)  Will you defend it?

3)  Do you or the other team have enough armies to take it?


Greg
From: spot@CS.CMU.EDU (Scott Draves)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Scattered Pops in INL- I vote NO!
Date: 25 Jan 93 08:51:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.C1EJAn.FzG.1
	<C18vDJ.FI6.1@cs.cmu.edu> <C195rE.J92@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
	<C1E4H6.5rE.1@cs.cmu.edu> <MUMMERT+.93Jan25014808@AUK.WARP.CS.CMU.EDU>
Distribution: rec
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: spot@HOPELESS.MESS.CS.CMU.EDU


Mergatroid> it's no bug, it's how they wrote it.

Todd> ludicrous [ but agrees it doesn't matter ]

i looked at the bronco.final sources before saying it.  these are
ifdefed to support 10 second popping, but without the ifdefs they do
40 second popping and i don't see anything that indicates that this
was unintentional.  if you have earlier code that shows otherwise,
please post it.

Mergatroid> i think this change makes the game less interesting, and
Mergatroid> have posted evidence to back this up.  where's yours?

Todd> No, you did not post any "evidence"... whatever that is in this
Todd> context.  You opined that random pops would make you less useful

i never said i would be less useful.  i posted situations where the
slow pop adds difficult judgement calls that have to be made on the
fly.  it's a (fairly unimportant) dimension of the game that doesn't
exist with a one second pop.  i'm not sure if much can be made of the
10 second clock; i haven't but maybe someone could.

Mergatroid> just flip a fucking coin.

Todd> you're ranting.

no, there's actually a point there.  you just didn't get it.

Mergatroid
-- 
				orgasm
Scott Draves			nitrous
spot@cs.cmu.edu			death
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: hde+@cs.cmu.edu (Herbert Enderton)
Subject: Re: MIRAMAR Clue Game Results
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 06:24:07 GMT

Regarding Noah's "clue game" on miramar,
I'm an enthusiastic fan of the clue game concept.
I'm glad you're planning to use the INL server code next time.
That will solve many of the problems we had last night.
If I may make a few other suggestions:
(1) Post the server, time, and ports at least 24 hours in advance.
    Don't change any of this once posted.
(2) Start on time, or at least within 15 minutes, no matter what.
(3) Don't try to choose up teams after people get there, especially
    if that means delaying an already-late game even more.
(4) Be willing to say (truthfully) when the game will start and
    stick to that.  Don't wait around for 45 minutes telling
    people the whole time "we'll start in a minute", start
    the game by surprise when somebody is in the bathroom,
    and then be wishy-washy about whether we're actually playing
    or are going to restart.

For players in such games (assuming an INL server):  Be sure to
maintain an equal number of players on each side.  Don't try to stack
your team with all the best players, it will only make the game less
fun all around.  Don't pause or restart.  Be there on time and alert to
organizational-type messages before the game.

  -- turkey

P.S.  I had to quit at the beginning because everything was so botched
and I was so pissed off.  I barely refrained from chunging myself in
protest (I was a fully loaded base).  I came back an hour or so later,
when the game was down to 4 Feds and 6 Roms, and destroyed all of the
remaining Rom planets in a matter of minutes.  I guess all the good
players had left already.
From: diachun@acsu.buffalo.edu (Justin D Diachun)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Impact of 40 second pops
Date: 27 Jan 93 00:40:42 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

In article <63697@mimsy.umd.edu> leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens) writes:
>SpaceAce writes:
>>On a 40 second clock, it  
>>is not uncommon to have 2 or 3 planets pop at the same time, making the  
>>scout destruction of all these armies very difficult.  
>
>If we want to preserve armies in this fashion, why not extend the pop
>clock to one minute?  Two minutes?  10 minutes?  Obviously, there is
>no logical stopping point... you just have to agree on some number and
>live with it.  Which is inelegant.  I think one reason people are
>against long pop clocks is that they intuitively sense this problem.

Yes, if there is a change, I believe it must be to have every planet
get a random chance to pop every 1 second.  Any other pop change is
just altering the form of the evil.

>And then there is the matter of getting a significant advantage from a
>very simple auxiliary program.  Yuck.

I agree totally here.  I have been scout bombing and religiously using
a pop clock on bronco for a few weeks now, since Rob changed it back.
Honestly, it makes the job too damn easy.  I would say I can nearly
double my number of armies bombed by using a timer, if the enemy has 2
deep agris and no mega-clue is stopping me.

>One final argument against pop timer based games; it is an anecdote
>because I feel lazy.  After TWNN started using pop timers last season,
>we scrimmaged SS.  I was playing base as a Rom, with Hyd agri.  With
>the benefit of the timer, I noticed a tactic that one of their scouts
>would use: he would cloak and move right up to Hyd just before pop
>time, ready to bomb it almost instantly if it popped.  (In the 40 sec
>timer, an agri with four+ armies has a 28% chance to pop, producing
>from one to four additional armies.)  Does this strike anyone else as
>abusive?

This is well stated and exactly what I do.  Somehow, it doesn't
increase the "fun" for me just seeing that I am more effective--I feel
"dirty" that this pop clock program allows me to get away with being
more useful.  But in the fanatic desire to win, I will use it.  Other
people are, why shouldn't I?

>-Leonard

I would consider myself as close to a master of using the pop clock as
anyone is.  And I want to get rid of the 40 second pop cycle.
Hopefully other good scout bombers will speak up too.


Helix
(posting from the old Buffalo account because of Newsfeed-lag)
-- 
___   ____   ____   ____   ___________________   ____   ____   ____   _
\  \ / \  \ / \  \ / \  \ /      Helix        \ / \  \ / \  \ / \  \ / 
/\  \  /\  \  /\  \  /\      Justin Diachun    \  /\  \  /\  \  /\  \  
  \__\/  \__\/  \__\/  \ diachun@cs.buffalo.edu \/  \__\/  \__\/  \__\/
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: hde+@cs.cmu.edu (Herbert Enderton)
Subject: apology for long post
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:11:03 GMT


My sincere apologies for posting that 90K file with the
source for the 40-second timer.  That was really boneheaded
of me, not least for failing to compress it properly.
I sent timer.tar.Z to the pub/incoming directory on
ocf.berkeley.edu, so I guess it will show up there somewhere.
I hope I'm not just compounding my mistakes...

 -- Red Shirt
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick)
Subject: Re: Cany we stop now?
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:39:50 GMT

trown@ecst.csuchico.edu (Nick Trown) writes
> Subject: Can we stop now?
> Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
> 
> This is a posting for Andy McFadden. His news is out.
> 
> Well, you can add USC to the ranks of UCB and iastate.
> 
> I'm getting *real* tired of this.  There are a limited number of things I
> can do about this, and few aren't drastic.  There is a very primitive flow
> control mechanism inside MS-II, but it's not effective against everything.

Having seen people (try to) do some incredibly stupid and antisocial
things on my FTP site, Andy has my eternal sympathy on this one.  You
provide a free service to the community, and some ignorant bozos just
keep abusing it (and you, if you tell them to stop).  Some of the
multiple connections are probably incompetents trying to write their
very own MetaServerII-parser, who haven't quite grasped the idea that
(a) they should be testing any socket stuff on their *own* socket
server first, and (b) you dry-run the thing to perfection on a couple
of saved copies of the MetaServer's output first, before actually
trying to connect to it.  However, some are undoubtedly your regular
moron who just sits there hitting <Ctrl-P> <Return> (or whatever). 

Given the choice between Andy (1) shutting down MS-II forever, and (2)
installing a packet filter that dumps all connections from "known-bad"
sites on the floor, I would vote for the latter.  It hurts the fewest
people.  It also encourages the regular users at the known-bad sites
to hunt down the miscreants and teach them to stop it, in order to get
back into MS-II's good books. 

Stop Abusing It.  It'll either go away completely, or it'll go away at
YOUR site, and then all of your netrekking friends are gonna come
gunning for YOUR blood.

Jonathan H., jch@cs.cmu.edu                    Keeper Of The Netrek Archives
Access for the masses : anonymous FTP to gs69.sp.cs.cmu.edu (128.2.206.167).
If you have AFS, look in /afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/jch/netrek.  If you have WAIS,
use the netrek-ftp database, available on port 6000 of gourd.srv.cs.cmu.edu.
From: hadley@codes.ics.uci.edu (Tedd Hadley)
Subject: Re: Server Bug
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Organization: UC Irvine Department of ICS
Date: 26 Jan 93 07:44:26 GMT

In <1993Jan25.232911.25142@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> markiel@callisto.pas.rochester.edu (Andrew Markiel) writes:

>I think the bug is a little more robust than you think, Tedd. This bug
>was noticed a few years ago, but it wasn't really considered important
>so nothing ever got done.

>The interesting bit is that, if your battleship is docked to the SB
>with it's shields up, and the SB has less than 10000 fuel (SBFUELMIN)
>then the battleship's fuel will begin to drain away, and when it hits 0
>it will keep spiralling down into the negative numbers.

   Yeah, you're right, but it looks like Leonard's fix solves that
   problem as well.  Note to bugfix archiver:  replace
   <2B642B46.18857@ics.uci.edu> with <63700@mimsy.umd.edu> ... er ..
   we do have a code archiver, no?  If not, I think I can be persuaded
   to do it.

++
   Tedd Hadley (hadley@uci.edu)
From: hadley@cad.ics.uci.edu (Tedd Hadley)
Subject: Re: From the CoUnciLboY: Changes in list of nominees...
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Organization: UC Irvine Department of ICS
Date: 21 Jan 93 19:53:49 GMT

In <1993Jan21.095658@IASTATE.EDU> isae@IASTATE.EDU (isae@IASTATE.EDU) writes:

>What about Ted Hadley?  :)
>Ted, you there?

   Thanks, but no.. getting too much grad study pressure.  Damn, I wish
   netrek had caught on 4 years ago .. had all kinds of time to spend on
   it then.  Used to play hack and nethack for 4 hour stretches :)

++
   Tedd Hadley (hadley@uci.edu)
From: ss72+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sean Christopher Simmons)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: DD's need improvement!
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:37:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.UfN=zva00VpN03P3lT
	<1993Jan24.123142.63112@cc.usu.edu>
Organization: Sponsored account, School Of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 24-Jan-93 Re: DD's need
improvement! sl7sg@cc.usu.edu (944)

> Scout;      Torp Damage: 30    Torp Speed: 16

	Scout damage is only 25.  I believe that Sunscreamer referred to them
as spitballs.

ZZnew guy
Organization: Sponsored account, School Of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 03:59:44 -0500 
From: Sean Christopher Simmons <ss72+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Yea, tho' I walk through the valley of the shadow of Red Shirt
	<C17Fwv.Dvr@news.iastate.edu>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 21-Jan-93 Re: Yea, tho' I walk
throug.. Sun God@iastate.edu (1444)

> >	Note:  While I'm convinced that the BB dogfights better, I still think
> >that it is the worse of the two ships overall.
> >
> >ZZnew guy

>    Note: While I'm convinced that the CA dogfights better (than the DD), I
> still think that it is the worse of the two ships overall.
>    Note: While I'm convinced that the DD dogfights better (than the SC), I
> still think it is the better of the two ships, because with scattered pops 2
> armies isn't enough to do more than bomb the hard way. 
>    I can see why all of you scout fanatics want the 40 second timer in the 
> INL...

	The arguement has sort of stagnated, so I'm not going to go back into it.
	I will say, however, that a number of the "scout fanatics", including
myself are for scattered popping.  I'm not even sure why you think that
it hoses scouts.  It does in some ways and helps in others.  I think
that the arguement that a number of SC-bombers (like Mergatroid) have
against scattered pops is that it means they're going to get stuck doing
nothing but bombing instead of bombing and a bit of this and that on the
side.  As an often SC-bomber, I can certainly sympathsize.

ZZnew guy
From: jimmyhua@aludra.usc.edu (Jimmy Huang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Clueless games
Date: 24 Jan 1993 00:11:32 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

hmm, at USC, soemtimes we have to use NCD's when computer
usage is up.  They are basically X-terms with itty bitty 
screens.

I don't read messages when ever I play off of them, 
because i'll get a major headache squinting down 
at the message board that is probably blocking up 
a good portion of either my tactical or galactic map. 

Jimmy
From: hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Impact of 40 second pops
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:25:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.C1F49r.3v7.2
Reply-To: hill@norman.vi.ri.cmu.edu
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


Some people have commented about how changing popping to 40 second pops  
helps scout bombers and droppers.  I disagree.  I think it makes the job  
of a scout bomber more interesting, thus, I like it.  

Scout bombing on a 10 second clock means that a bomber has the chance to  
bomb *every* army that pops(if he's dedicated).  On a 40 second clock, it  
is not uncommon to have 2 or 3 planets pop at the same time, making the  
scout destruction of all these armies very difficult.  So I think the 40  
sec-10 sec debate makes the scout bombers job *different*, not *easier*.

There is a problem with being a scout bomber now adays:  you must always  
be scout bombing.  There is no room for anything else.  With a 40 second  
pop clock, you have more flexiblity to do other things (drop, ogg, etc).   
This makes the game much more interesting for these players who dedicate  
their life to this.

How about a 20 second pop clock?  A 5 second pop clock?

I have no problem with improving the randomness of the popping code.  I  
always thought that there was something broken in there! :-).

Rob
aka Spaceace!
From: kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu (Kevin Michael Bernatz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Escorting Tips Wanted
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:16:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.MfNeRZa00VpaQkfkZg
	<C1F325.2or.2@cs.cmu.edu>
Organization: Senior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 25-Jan-93 Re: Escorting Tips
Wanted Robert Hill@norman.VI.RI (1094)

> 4)  if its deep in enemy space, use the same type of ship as the  
> taker..unless they are in an AS, in which case you use a CA or DD.

I'll have to disagree with my esteemed co-captain here.  If I know I'm
escorting someone in deep space and have a chance to grab a politically
correct (tm) ship, I'll grab the CA 99% of the time.  The only time I'll
grab anything else (a SC) is if the taker is in a SC.   I seldom use a
DD for escorting (well, I seldom use a DD in a clue game anyways....)
though like most people have said, when escort is needed you go nomatter
what ship you are.  I've killed planet defenders and saved planet takers
with a scout more times than I can count....the only difference is that
in a CA you have a better chance of living and becoming a taker yourself.

-KB