From: martin@parst1.paradigm.CO.ZA (Martin Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.romance
Subject: Re: Friends & lovers..
Date: 30 Jul 92 16:09:10 GMT
Organization: Paradigm Systems Technology

In <1992Jul27.070641.24458@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bt850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Anthony S. Galliford) writes:
>In a previous article, v107smub@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Balakrishn Nair) says:
>>In article <1992Jul23.175235.16141@jetsun.weitek.COM>, weaver@jetsun.weitek.COM (Michael Weaver) writes...
>>>In article <1992Jul22.223013.9192@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> alangend@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Andrea D Langenderfer) writes:
>>>>For me it is not a choice that I am aware of, but it usually ends up that there
>>>>is this friend that I have known for awhile as strictly a friend(ie group 
>>>>activities, conversations about life in general, confide about relationships 
>>>>that have gone arye,ect). Then all of a sudden it hits me that I like this guy 
>>>>alot, that I would like to ask him out, that there is a strong attraction,ect.

My feelings seem to work identically - I just don't seem to be the "love at
first sight" type. In fact I simply fail to understand how anyone can profess
to be "in love" with someone they don't actually know at all. Sure there is 
such a thing as initial attraction - that undefinable "spark" - but it rarely
lasts long (I usually realise pretty quickly that the person concerned really
isn't my type). 

Every few years, though, it suddenly hits me that I am falling for a woman I 
have know for some time as purely a friend (not necessarily a _very_ close
one), and shortly thereafter I find myself on the same old emotional 
rollercoaster - I really put myself through the wringer as to whether and
when and how to tell her: "If she is currently attached, am I prepared to 
wait? And for how long? Should I tell her now? Is it ethically OK considering 
her existing relationship? Will this wreck a perfectly good friendship? After 
all, I _do_ value her friendship tremendously, and that is better than nothing.
But I would like so much more! We could both get so much from a closer 
relationship with each other! Isn't it arrogant of me to believe so? Does she, 
or could she even like me at all as more than a friend? Yes, I think she _is_ 
somewhat attracted to me too - those occasional looks that pierce me to the
quick, various seemingly innocent, but oh so significant, comments that shatter
my peace of mind instantly, that warm, caring smile, a flirtacious grin, a 
naughty chuckle! Oh, but that's just all wishful thinking! I can't even trust 
my own (normally very sound) judgement anymore! Oh what a fool I am! Why can't 
I make a better impression?"    Etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum......   :-)

>>>>And it's ironic because I start thinking about him and when we first met and I
>>>>think "Gosh, I never wasn't attracted to him before in a romatic way". It is 
>>>>like I completely change my view of him. But usually by this time he thinks of 
>>>>me strictly as his friend, not a potential date. Sometimes I wonder if this guy 
>>>>even remember I am a female. It more like just my buddies. This has only 

Well, realise that you are far from alone in this (judging from the followups).
Sooner or later you should run across someone who works the same way and whose
feelings for you will grow at a rate similar enough to that of yours for him
such that the two of you hit it off. At least that is what I am hoping will 
happen to me eventually. It seems clear though, that statistically the 
probability of this is not inordinately high, so the corresponding time before 
this will occur is relatively long. The upshot of this is that you'll have to 
be patient. On the other hand, I am inclined to believe that when this happy 
event does indeed come to pass, it should be the beginning of a really great,
lasting and genuinely fulfilling relationship; certainly more so than would be 
likely if you had each fallen in love with someone you didn't know at all. I 
hope, and believe, then, that my patience in this will be justified. I guess 
I can't really afford to believe otherwise.... :-)

>This really sounds familiar! I have a really good friend who, when I
>met her, was dating my best friend. Their relationship ended several
>months ago, but for a couple of months before that, and ever since,
>I have wondered if a relationship more than friendship might develop
>between us. I actually got up the nerve to talk deeply with her last
>week, and I found myself saying that I really value her friendship,
>but I still hope that there could be more...

Yes, I have found there is nothing to be gained by silence, though - you
must talk to her about it. Assuming you are both reasonably mature
individuals, you should be able to work it all out. If this is something
she can't, or won't handle, just how good was your friendship anyway?
Friendships grow via such tests and challenges, or they founder, but something
this important, kept hidden, will slowly strangle it anwyay. The trust and
the goodwill are gradually extinguished as the object of your affections
realises you are hiding something from her that is obviously important and
concerns you both. In fact, in keeping something like this quiet, you aren't
being a particularly good friend, and that alone does not improve your chances
of a deeper relationship....

>>>>happened three times to me. For me,I think it has to do with
>>>>like him for who he is, qualities, habits, personality rather then for straight
>>>>out looks.

Quite so, and I think you have precisely the right attitude.

>>>>my theory is that these guys have a time limit-if you aren't a potential date 
>>>>right off they never consider you again. Where as for me the more I know him 
>>>>the more attracted to him I am, and by then it's too late. I guess that is 
>>>>what timing is all about, but at this rate it may never work to the positive 
>>>>ending.

Well my own make-up, and that of other posters shows that your generalisation
is a little too sweeping. As I said above, you are not alone, and because of 
that, I am convinced that all you need is patience - hang in there!

>>One way would be the direct approach (*where you really cant help it*) but
>>this might spoil your relationship.  I have heard that in case of women, it
>>is easier and men stay as friends (if they dont want to be anything more than
>>friends), but in case of men, i.e. when a man really likes to have a relation
>>ship more than a friend with a woman, I would suppose that she would less likely
>>be his friend, if he told her about it.. and she *doesnt* want to have anything
>>more than friends.
>>
>>Any comments on this are most welcome.!  

Surely, in fact I have already made most of them a little earlier in this 
posting.  In my experience, certainly, this has not been the case. Even if the
person you are attracted to does not reciprocate, and, let's face it, probably 
doesn't, at least initially, I must confess to a preference for gentle rejection
by a good friend to the harsher brand that will likely be dished out by someone
who really doesn't know or care about you.

>>>I suppose there are some people who are literally like this, and can't fall
>>>for someone they already know. But I suspect (unfortunately, no success stories
>>>to tell) that in many cases, they just need a good push.

I think so too, and indeed I hope that this opinion is vindicated, the sooner 
the better!    :-)

>>>>That's just my input on the subject, sorry to sound negative but I am just 
>>>>getting over one of "friends" and it is has to be the most difficult by far.
>>>>Andi

Yes, me too - I'm also on the recovery trail. One seems to get better at it
over time though, so once again, hang in there, and best wishes in your 
romantic endeavours.

>>As you can see.. I am there.. already.. and havent really told the person about
>>this situation.  I would suppose that staying friends would be the best solution
>>in my case... which is rather unfavourable.

Well, I'd urge you to tell her anyway. Assuming your friendship survives the 
test (and there probably isn't any reason why it shouldn't), it will be
all the stronger for it. And who knows, maybe she feels the same way. Then your
courage (make no mistake, it takes plenty) and your willingness to communicate
will stand you in good stead....

>There is nothing wrong with remaining friends. It can, however,
>be really stressful if you would like the relationship to go further,
>and the other person concerned doesn't know it. 

Quite so, in fact to an unbearable degree in my most recent skirmish!

>I just need to
>figure out how to tell her how I feel about her without spoiling
>a really great friendship.

I've always found that you can't contrive something like that without f***ing
it up. Just go somewhere private with her and tell her about it, as openly,
as honestly, with as much caring and as little drama as you can manage. Don't
make her feel threatened or pressured, and definitely make it clear how much 
you value her friendship and that it's OK if she doesn't feel the same way, 
now, or ever.....

>>>Good Luck,
>>>Michael.

Ditto!!!!
Mart.

-- 
Martin Walker               |  "One way to stop a runaway horse
Paradigm Systems Technology |   is to bet on him"
Pretoria, South Africa      | UUCP : martin@parst1.UUCP  
++27-12-344-3973            | DNS  : martin@paradigm.CO.ZA