HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mcaldwel@netcom.com (Michael Caldwell)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Has Anyone Dealt With Intratec?????
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:34:26 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <9208271807.AA12127@cadence.Cadence.COM> jyoung@Cadence.COM (John Young) writes:
#I was wondering if anyone has dealt with Intratec Firearms???
#
#I bought a .22 hand(type)gun.A friend and I were out shooting
#(rapidly)and after a few hundred rounds,the firing pin broke.
#I wrote Intertec and explained that I had recently bought it
#and the pin broke.
#I never even got an "eat me" letter in return!!!
#So my questions are:
#1)Has this type of thing happend to anyone else?
#2)Can someone recomend a smith that could fix/make(a)firing pin??
#
I have a TEC-22 also, the firing pin is always breaking.  I just called
Intratec and ordered a few spare firing pins.  I sent them a letter along
with a money order and I got the parts in a couple of weeks.

A friend of mine bought a used TEC-22 from someone who had modified the
trigger mechanism and he returned the gun to intratec for repair.  They
replaced the trigger mechanism and some other parts, test fired it, and
returned it to him in a few weeks with a free magazine.  I think it cost
him around $20.

No problems with Intratec here.

Michael
From: C96@VM.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Alexander Eichener)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: INFO on 8.15x46R ammunition
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:04:39 GMT


Here is some information on this old German target round:
a) live ammo 8,15 x 46 R (in German, the comma replaces the dot) is not
   available from RWS right now, as their comprehensive new 1992
   catalogue shows.
      It was still listed in the 1988 catalogue and therefore should still
   be available from some ammunition dealers here in Germany. I understand
   RWS produces some runs at a time and then waits until enough demand has
   piled up (of course, if you ordered a really BIG lot, they might start
   loading at once :-).
      This factory ammo had/has a 9,8 Gramm copper jacketed softpoint
   flatnose bullet. For reloading, cast lead bullets were the standard among
   German target shooters; these can be had from Haendler & Natermann in
   Hannoversch Muenden (if you need address and prices, tell me). Actual
   RWS diameter is indicated to be .324 inch. I don't know whether that is
   correct.

      Ballistic data of the RWS loading (using a 700 mm barrel):
   m        0    50  100 150 200 300     Attention: pressure is only 1500 bar.
   ---------------------------------     The old single-shot target actions
   V (m/s) 550  500  455 420 380 325     often won't stand more. A Mauser
   E (J)  1480 1230 1025 855 715 515     action might, but don't try it.
   Drop (cm)           0 -14 -40-150(!)

   Note rainbow trajectory! Also note dangerous ricochetting ability of these
   slow, heavy bullets: always look for a safe backstop. Using a 8,15x46R on
   game is discouraged in Germany and would be considered bad sport. I'm
   not going to argue about the pros and cons of that idea.

b) Empty new cases are available from RWS. The ordering number is
   214 5049 (box of 20). Bullets are not listed presently.

c) The addresses of the RWS representatives in the USA and Germany are:
   Dynamit Nobel RWS Inc.          Dynamit Nobel AG
   105, Stonehurst Court           Geschaeftsbereich Zivilmunition RWS
   Northvale, N.J. 07647           Postfach 1261
   Tel. 201 767-1995               D-W- 5210 Troisdorf
   Fax  201 767-1589               GERMANY (West)

Well, wish you a fine time shooting these old rifles. They should be capable
of excellent accuracy - just keep the pressures low. Not only for safety
reasons (some older guns were made for black powder), but also because the
rifling twist was laid out for low velocities.

Greetings,
Alexander Eichener <c96@vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
From: paulh@tekcae.cax.tek.com (Paul Hammer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: stupid shooter tricks
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:08:39 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.


#are no better.  I can't count the number of times that I've seen some one rest
#a gun barrel on a foot.  I've even seen pump and semi-auto shooters emulate

A genuinely ugly stupid shooter trick -- I only saw the aftermath:

The brother of a previous girlfriend has a left arm that stops just
above the elbow.  Seems he was out in the woods with hunting buddies.
They were standing around, taking a break.  He was leaning on his
12 ga. shot gun.  Barrell up, arm on the barrel, gun butt on a log
(or maybe it was a rock, but I'm sure it was a log.)  The butt slipped
off the log, hit the ground, gun fired, arm splattered sky high.
Glad I wasn't there.

-rickf
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why a sawed-off shotgun?
Date: 30 Aug 92 14:09:23 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

rslugg@med.unc.edu (Robert Slugg) writes:

#One of the limits for barrel length is the magazine capacity.  Some of the
#self defense shotguns have 20-21" barrels so there is room to store extra
#shells.  As for velocity loss, at least down to the 20" range it is only
#10 fps or less per inch of barrel.  I still wonder why there aren't 2 or 2
#and 1/4" shotshells for home defense.  One could easily remove one of the
#1/2" spacers to decrease overall shell length which would translate into
#an increased magazine capacity.  I suspect the US Marshalls have shells
#like these for their conceable shotguns, otherwise they are limited to 2
#or 3 shells at most in the magazine.

There are 2" 12ga shells, I've seen them.  Why they are not more popular
is beyond me.
From: sorrow@maple.circa.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Guns in Total Recall
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:20:30 GMT
Organization: Center for Instructional and Research Computing Activities


What the hell are those bullpup weapons used in Total Recall, specifically
at the end?  At first I thought they were G11's, however they aren't as
boxy as a G11, and G11's don't use standard box magazines.  Then I
thought an F-Mas or an Enfield...no way.  There's no way it's a Valmet
or a Steyr AUG either...and it's not that goofy Mini-14 bullpup mod they
have out.

Anyone else know?  I know a lot of the weapons in the movie were dressed
up MAC-10s, MicroUZIs, and MiniUZIs, and a couple of Mossberg M500 Bullpups
and Calicos, but those bullpup assault rifles...they look like the ones
from Aliens sans extra crap hanging off of 'em....

Brian
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Taurus 3-way safety (was Re: .40 s&w questions)
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:21:39 GMT
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.

In article <1992Aug25.235550.21651@nsc.nsc.com> nsc!jrr@decwrl.dec.com (Jerry Roe) writes:

##they have a 3-position safety-decocker.  I forget the ordering of the
##positions, but remember misgivings about hitting the safety too hard in
##a tense situation and ending up with weapon unable to fire.

#Hmm.  I don't own any DA semi-autos, but when you have a DA pistol and
#de-cock it, isn't all that's required to fire it just simply pulling the
#trigger through?  (Assuming a round is chambered, which is implicit in
#de-cocking.)  Isn't that the whole idea behind DA semi-autos?  Granted,
#you'd have to cycle the trigger again, but I don't see how the weapon
#would be *unable* to fire.

The Taurus three-position "safety" includes both de-cock [ouch!, I sure
wish someone would come up with a better name for that :-)] and true
external safety, hence the "three" positions (the third being "fire").
Doing the wrong thing with it will indeed render the gun unable to
fire.

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@ttidca.tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@ttidca.tti.com to you!)
{philabs,psivax,pyramid,quad1,rdlvax,retix,rutgers}!ttidca!reid
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
From: davep@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com (David Post)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Which P-7 to use at Gunsite?
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:08:46 GMT

Bill Burge:

 >Cause when you show up at Gunsite with a "European Wonder Nine" (much as
 >I like 'em, mine's a Glock) he's gonna want to shove it up your... nevermind.

Nah.  The way I heard it, is you will get some good natured kidding from the
instructors and some of the other students if you show up with a
wonder-nine.  You know...,stuff like "the 9mm sub calibur", "9mm
krunchenticker" and "combat tupperware" (Glock).
		[MODERATOR:  ^--- hey, I hadn't heard that one.  Neat!]

But if your Glock or SIG or whatever keeps on firing while the Colts jam for
whatever reason, stove pipe or apply their safeties because your thumb
wasn't on top, or launch their bushings and springs, you'll be on pretty
safe ground.

But they will be absolutely merciless if you drag in a race gun!
"Star Wars"
"Captain Kirk"
"Phasors"

God help you if it ever jams or your batteries expire!

David Post  davep@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com  hplabs!hpfcla!post
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What's the best pocket-sized gun?
Date: 30 Aug 92 14:09:21 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

.25 is worse than .22.   .32 is a little better, .380 better still,
all inferior to .38.

I would forget autos and get a .38 snub like the Taurus 85 or the
S&W Centenial.  .38 is about the smallest caliber where you can
get ammo with some degree of stopping ability.

An aluminum .38 is lighter than a .380.  I fired one with +P .38 
ammo yesterday, and it kicked hard (ouch, it was far worse than
.357s in the Ruger SP101 snub I tried the same day), though it was 
certainly a very light and handy gun.

A .22-.380 pocket auto is about 18-24 oz.
An aluminum .38 is about 14 oz.	 	S&W Centenial
A steel .38s is 20-21 oz.		S&W Centenial, Taurus 85CH
Ruger .357 SP101 is 25 oz with 2" barrel, pleasant to shoot, imo.
Charter's .44 special is 19 oz.  It's a little big to be called "pocket",
but feather light, and far more powerful than a .380.

Look at the Star Firestar in .40 or 9mm.  I'm getting my girlfriend
the .40.  Light recoil, same size as a .380.  There is no reason to
get a gun in a "play" caliber like .380, when real guns are little
bigger and are easy to shoot.   Handle this one: 3.5" barrel, 30 oz.

I have a Jennings J-22.  It jams about 2% of the time, making it useless
for defense.  It is a pocket gun, and is .22 cal.  Beretta's .22 LR pocket
gun is a very good one, but really, none of the pocket automatic calibers
are appropriate for self defense.  Beretta's .22 LR weighs 12 oz, btw.

Jim D
From: towle@vssteg.enet.dec.com (Clark Towle Gunsmith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: CZ-75 misfires
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:04:43 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <rani.715378956@barsoom>, rani@barsoom.nhh.no (Ragnar Nielsen) writes...
# 
#I took my newly purchased (2nd hand) CZ-75 to the range for the first time
#today, and experienced 7 misfires in the first 20 rounds. I fieldstripped
#the gun and gave it a quick cleaning and continued shooting, 3 misfires in
#the next 30 rounds.
# 
#The ammunition was Finnish factory ammo ('Lapua' brand) which has functioned
#perfectly in all other guns I've tried it in, including 2 other CZ-75's.
# 
*>The gun is as already mentioned bought second hand, but the previous owner
*>has not to my knowledge altered or substituted the mainspring. Except for a
*>trigger action tuning the gun looks pretty stock to me.

 This is a dead giveaway... :-) I betcha the mainspring *WAS* replaced with a 
"reduced power" mainspring. This seems to be the norm lately when doing 
trigger jobs and is fine *IF* a stronger firing pin spring is not installed 
at the same time.

 The lower power mainspring in combination with a stronger firing pin spring 
is guaranteed to induce misfires.

 Swap out the heavy firing pin spring for the factory equivalent.
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: more on Super-Lube
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:21:52 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University Computing Center


  I wrote about Super Lube - and decided to look into it a bit
more.

  On the tube it says Patent #4,396,514 so I decided to look it
up and see what wonderful qualities were claimed for it.  The
patent covers both the composition and the method of making it.

  The main ingredient is a lubricating fluid, either a natural or
synthetic petroleum distillate (either an oil or a grease - I 
didn't think that grease is a petroleum distillate, but that's
how this was described.)  This constituted the majority of the 
content.  Then there was finely divided PTFE, FEP, etc - mostly
in submicron size, making up 1-3% or more.  Then some silicon
dioxide powder in very small particles, mostly 12-16 millimicrons
in size, making up 2-10% of the content.  In this small size this
is not abrasive and serves to keep the Teflon particles from clumping.
It is supposed to have extended temperature range and storage life.

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
From: ghm@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What are some famous actor's guns (i.e. James Bond's Walther)
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:30:21 GMT
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia

callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:

#Oh, Geoff, how could you forget this one:
#		Mike Hammer
#		    Colt 1911 (A1?) .45ACP

Lack of literary merit?  Actually, it's over 20 years since I
read any of Mickey Spillane's books (which'll give you some idea
how old _I_ am) and they slipped my mind.  I watched about half
of one episode of the Mike Hammer TV series and gave up on that.

#Or this one ;-)
#		Thomas Magnum
#		    Colt 1911A1

Oversight, influenced by the fact that my ex-wife was a fan of
Tom Selleck:-)

I should have added that in the early, and best, episodes of the
TV "Saint" series with Roger Moore, he used a .32 Beretta.

Geoff Miller  (g-miller@adfa.oz.au)

#						James

#James P. Callison       Microcomputer Coordinator        OU Law Library 
#Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu
#	constellation!biglaw!callison@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu
#DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
#Don't. You might lose a finger, and you wouldn't be able to count to 10.
#			--Jaime Escolante, "Stand and Deliver"
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Differance between .40 and 10mm
Date: 27 Aug 92 13:22:43 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <1992Aug24.183938.23900@crash> jca@crash.cts.com writes:
#roman@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes:
## 
##Like the .38 Special and the .357 Magnum, you can fire a .40 S&W in a 10mm
##pistol, but not vice versa.
#
#A revolver I can believe, but not anything that is magazine or clip
#fed.
#--
#
Incorrect-amundo.  If you anxious about the short round in the longer mag.
I have occaision to use 9mm in 38Super mags reasonably often.  While the
feed failure is possible, it works about 98% of the time.

Bill	burge@qdeck.com
From: leone@gandalf.ssw.com (Bob Leone)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: "guns used more on owners than on burglars"
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:01:57 GMT

# I was led to believe that this was a bogus result of a flawed, outdated study

The problems with this piece of data:

1) The objective of the owner is to make the burgler either go away or hold
   him for police. The datum counts only the (relatively rare) incidents of
   the homeowner being forced to kill the burglar. Also, if the burgler
   was scared off, and the gun is unregistered/illegal in that city, the
   owner is not likely to report the incident at all. All cases where the
   owner is killed are reported, however, which skews the stats severely.

2) The actual quote referred to guns being used more often to kill 
   "aquaintances and relatives" than burglers. Thus:

    a) If a woman shoots her abusive husband/boyfriend in self-defense,
       it's an "aquaintance or relative" killing.
    b) A drug dealer killing another dealer over a bad deal is an
       "aquaintance" killing.
    etc, etc.

Bob Leone (leone@gandalf.ssw.com)
(The opinions expressed are my own.)

    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.  The strongest reason
    for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last
    resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
	   - Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, June 1776
	     1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C. J. Boyd, Ed., 1950).
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Need advice on building an underground range
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:20:53 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation, San Diego

In article <1992Aug26.225752.28936@software.org> truong@software.org (James Truong) writes:
#
#Hello to the netters in rec.guns,
#
#My friend Rob and I are seriously thinking about building a 50' 
#underground pistol range in his backyard.  Being a lurker on 
#rec.guns, I know the experts here can help us to avoid pitfalls.
#
#  5) Legal
#	We have checked out the local regulation (Fairfax County, VA)
#	and there is nothing on the book against a private underground
#	range (in theory). By building an underground range in the 
#	backyard, are we inviting trouble/harassment from the sherrif?

You should be aware that life can become very difficult if someone
doesn't like what you do and you have short-changed the system in
any (e.g., not getting building permits, inspections, etc.).  You
might even be faced with the need for an environmental impact
study in some areas.

I'm not saying this to discourage you, but rather to encourage you
to be thorough so that you won't have problems later.

BTW, the NRA may be able to help with the range design.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Which P-7 to use at Gunsite?
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:33:19 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <1992Aug28.211252.2796@ra.oc.com> clb@mistxt.oc.com (Chris Boyd) writes:
#So what does Col. Cooper think of the Glock 21 .45 ACP?

In the latest Guns & Ammo, Cooper said that they're still studying but
are formulating a theory now based on observing students who use Glocks.
(Until now no "champion" used double-action or Glock so he had no data.)
Preliminary judgement was that double-actions require coordination while
Glocks require concentration, neither being a bad thing in itself.
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why a sawed-off shotgun?
Date: 31 Aug 92 12:56:43 GMT
Organization: gte

In article <1992Aug26.153716.18872@btree.uucp>, btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale) writes:
# In article <5871@transfer.stratus.com> tarl@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter) writes:
# [ discussion concerning short-barreled shotguns deleted ]
# 
# #Interestingly enough, this is the only provision of the GCA or NFA that I
# #know to have made it to the supreme court; The supreme court upheld the NFA
# #in ruling that short-barelled shotguns were not normal militia equipment.
# 
# In this case the Supreme Court dodged the issue; they stated that it
# was not within judicial notice that short-barreled shotguns were
# useful to the military.  This means that no one had presented evidence
# that they were useful, it doesn't mean that the military didn't use
# them.

Two more points on Miller vs US:

1) Mr. Miller was deceased at the time the case came before the SC
    and therefore was unable to argue his case.
2) The trench guns used in one of the world wars were short barrelled
    shotguns.


-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why a sawed-off shotgun?
Date: 31 Aug 92 12:56:25 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

In article <1992Aug29.212602.25263@samba.oit.unc.edu>, rslugg@med.unc.edu (Robert Slugg) writes:

#10 fps or less per inch of barrel.  I still wonder why there aren't 2 or 2
#and 1/4" shotshells for home defense.  One could easily remove one of the
#1/2" spacers to decrease overall shell length which would translate into

	I've seen 2-1/4" shells with full 2-3/4" payloads for sale 
	in SGN a few years ago. I think they were being marketed
	for the IPSC crowd. Personally, I'd just as soon take
	a 2-3/4" shell with a full 3" equivalent load in #4 buck. 
	Of course if I had a Class II (or is that III?) shotgun
	with a short mag, I think I'd opt for the extra rounds.
	
	BTW one of the reasons the 2-1/4 inch shells didn't fly was
	that they would not feed out of a mossberg. The same outfit
	sold modified shell lifters for the Mossberg 500 for a while.

	If anyone knows where one could find these shells, please post.
-c
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 
* for sale: Springfield Armory Factory Comp, 38 Super, +3 mags. All new
* in box (never fired at all).  $650 or best offer over $600 as of Sep 30.
From: toby@milton.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Washington state handgun hunting
Date: 31 Aug 92 12:56:35 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Aug29.214254.19938@ncsu.edu> hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
#In article <2956@voodoo.UUCP> voodoo!tomm@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Tom Mackey) writes:
##I got curious about handgun hunting so I checked the 92/93 Washington State
##hunting rules pamplet.  From page 8 I quote:
##
##    "HANDGUNS - For deer, bear, or cougar hunting, centerfire handguns
##    approved for hunting purposes must be a minimum of .24 caliber, have
##    a minimum barrel length of four (4) inches, usa a mushrooming or
##    expanding-type bullet, and generate a minimum of 500 foot pounds of
#                                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
##    energy at 100 yards.
#     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Note that this minumum energy is mandated in the same state that
won't allow .22 centerfires of any description for deer hunting.
One state to the south, in Oregon, .22 CFs are legal for deer.  The
Columbia River must be the divide between deer that die when hit
by a .220 Swift (100 yard kinetic energy 1540ft-lbs., greater than
500 ft-lbs. at 500 yards) and those that can only be killed with a
.44 magnum which has less energy at the muzzle than the Swift at
150 yards.  Even a .223 has about as much muzzle energy as a .44
mag, and more energy at any anyplace downrange.  I won't claim
that a .22 CF is ideal for deer, but the deer I've shot with
a .223 never moved more than a couple of feet, usually straight
down.

Toby Bradshaw
From: M20069@MBVM.mitre.org (Joseph H. Downing)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What's the best pocket-sized gun?
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:58:22 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA 01730

The Seecamp .32 Auto is my personal favorite...Check it out, you won't be dis-
appointed.
 
=======================           *********************************
Joe Downing           =           *                               *
M20069@MBVM.Mitre.Org =           * ...Fay, this is delicious,    *
Bedford, MA  USA      =           *       is it hand shucked?     *
(617) 271-3377        =           *                               *
=======================           *********************************