From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams)
Subject: Re: O'Brien's Rank [THE FINAL ANSWER]
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 09:54:58 GMT

jblum@hamlet.umd.edu writes:
 >dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams) writes:
 >>The O'Brien/Transporter Chief character was created starting 
 >>with the FIRST episode of season two.  He clearly wore the rank of
 >>Lieutenant, and in his next appearance they called him as such.

 >But Colm Meaney (who plays O'Brien) has been on the Enterprise from
 >"Encounter at Farpoint" on.  
Not exactly...

 >He plays the Battle Bridge helmsman (with a red uniform and, as I recall, 
 >one pip) in "Farpoint", and in another episode, possibly "Lonely Among Us",
 > he has a couple of lines as a security officer.
 > All this has been said before, many times.

Yes, quite right.  BUT... during the first season Colm was nothing but
a "bit player".  They found two totally unrelated parts for him to play.
The "O'Brien/Transporter Chief" character was not even INVENTED until the
SECOND season.  Therefore trying to call those first season appearances
"O'Brien" is problematical at best.  Retroactively, some people try to go
back and say "it was Miles", but you have to remember when he played those
parts, that character did not even EXIST yet.  

Whatever the case, it does not have a major impact on the whole "rank"
think, except if one wanted to say O'Brien was also an officer during 
the first season.

 >Perhaps, instead of resolving it one way or another, we should ask another
 >question.  What happened, in Trek terms, to change his rank to this
 >previously-unseen combination?

I'm sure that NOTHING happened in "trek terms".  They either screwed up,
didn't care, or the producers decided to change something.  Trying to 
invent crazy "explanations" for such things has always been about the
worst of Trekkiedom IMHO...


v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey) writes:
 >chil@fraser.sfu.ca (Keith Lim) writes...
 >>It is the people in the "O'Brien is a CPO" camp who have to concoct 
 >>complicated, often contrived scenarios to explain all kinds of things.

 >We have a simple disagreement: those of us who give far more weight 
 >to spoken dialogue and scenes know O'Brien is a CPO.

Wrong.  By FAR the clearest "spoken dialog" was when Riker called
Miles a Lieutenant.  The vague references of Sergey hardly compare.

 >That costuming has now been CORRECTED, as of "Realm of Fear."

Just like Geordi and Barclay's pips were also "corrected" during
the whole "musical pips" silliness we have seen this season?
You're saying it is "corrected" does not mean anything.

 >Because he is a recurring character, small costuming oversights
 >remain OVERSIGHTS.  

Oversights??  Is that what you call his CONSISTENT rank in every appearance?
Are you at all familiar with the term YATI??   Why is a pure *YATI* (Sergey)
so much more important to some people than something *totally* consistent?

 >>O'Brien is a Lt. O'Brien wears Lt pips. Sergei Roschenko
 >>calling him a CPO was the YATI. Simple.
 >You can't explain away SPOKEN DIALOGUE as a simple mistake and 
 >embrace COSTUMING as MAJOR STATEMENT. Ridiculous.  

This is totally ridiculous...  Find out what YATI means, please!
You also might want to better study this ONE silly instance of
"spoken dialog" you are so taken with.  It didn't say anything.

 >O'Brien WILL be promoted from CPO to Chief Operations Officer on DS9.

That would be a perfect position for a Lt. Commander, 
which would have been O'Brien's next step up in rank...

 >and the costume Meaney was wearing probably came from DS9
 >wardrobe (since Meaney is a mjor character over there)... the
 >new open pip could be indicative of his new rank over there...

In case you didn't know, the uniforms on DSN are slightly different.

 >But if O'Brien is a Lt., then why is being DEMOTED FOR DS9?  
You have it backwards...

 >The uniform Colm wore for Realm of Fear is THE SAME ONE HE WEARS FOR DS9

WRONG, and just where did you get that idea?  (made up, no doubt).

 >He will not be a Lt. in DS9, but a lower rank, according to Paramount, 
 >the writers, the costuming dept., and everyone else associated with
 >TNG and DS9.

I see.  So you have spoken to ALL those people over this last week?

Give me a break!  That kind of talk is pure nonsense...

(boy is this a lame thread :)

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