HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dleslie@aludra.usc.edu (David Leslie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Random tidbits regarding WOC & A4000
Date: 11 Sep 1992 18:30:13 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu


Hi y'all.. Actually, I have to say that I am feeling better about
the A4000 after the afternoon sessions with Jim Dionne and the
head of marketing.

First, Dionne basically(my interpretation - so standard disclaimers)
said that within 6 months the A4000 will have a DSP board. 

Second, there still may be 32bit SCSI on the motherboard. They are 
still working on the scsi, and havn't decided whether to put it
in a zorro or what.  The marketing guy said that they very well
might put it on the MB.

They haven't decided whether to put in 4 1 meg simms or 1 4 meg simm.
(People strongly urges 1 4meg simm)

Since there is a modular CPU design, Jim Dionne mentioned they might
consider a RISC board. (por favor!)

For those people who have been on Marc B.'s back because of his
attacks on Amiga World, Dionne said that there were between
200-250 commodore dealers in the USA(dealer being a reseller who buys
from C=, not a distributor).  That's a far cry from 1000.

The head of marketing said that when the A3000(1 product) came out,
they had 23 marketing people. Now, he said, they have 23 new products,
and 3 people to do the marketing.

No new UNIX from C=, maybe from a third party.

A4000 - made in Scotland

I dunno, If I remember anything else, I'll post it. Tomorrow the
engineers are going to talk, so hopefully someone will make it out
there and see what is really up!

/--------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Amiga  ///    |  U.S.C. Trojans  | Don't  | David Leslie           |
|       ///     |     Fight On!    | Tread  |                        |
|   \\\///      |        --        | On     | dleslie@usc.edu        |
|    \XX/ A1000 |     Go Kings!    | Me!    |                        |
\--------------------------------------------------------------------/
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:23851 comp.sys.amiga.misc:13804
From: fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: I WAS RIGHT!!!!!
Date: 12 Sep 92 14:08:11 GMT
Organization: Wright State University

In article <1992Sep12.030103.9039@news.iastate.edu>, barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
> In article <18rh75INNpga@aludra.usc.edu> dleslie@aludra.usc.edu (David Leslie) writes:
>>For those people who have been on Marc B.'s back because of his
>>attacks on Amiga World, Dionne said that there were between
>>200-250 commodore dealers in the USA(dealer being a reseller who buys
>>from C=, not a distributor).  That's a far cry from 1000.
> 
>    See all of you jerks who flamed me for saying that there couldn't possibly 
> be 1000 Amiga dealers in the U.S.A. -- *** I WAS RIGHT***  !!!!
> 
>    'Nuff said!!

	Gee Mark,  Thats one in a row!  Congratulations!  :-)

> 
>>/--------------------------------------------------------------------\
>>| Amiga  ///    |  U.S.C. Trojans  | Don't  | David Leslie           |
>>|       ///     |     Fight On!    | Tread  |                        |
>>|   \\\///      |        --        | On     | dleslie@usc.edu        |
>>|    \XX/ A1000 |     Go Kings!    | Me!    |                        |
>>\--------------------------------------------------------------------/
> 
> ---
> | Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
> --------------------------------------------------
Fred Heitkamp
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Unreal demo!
Date: 6 Sep 1992 01:40:27 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn) writes:
>nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou) writes:
>>davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn) writes:

>>>Of course, this discussion is irrelevant - HAM8 at 800x600 is going to blow
>>>SVGA well out of the water...
>>
>>Even 800x600x24bit SVGA?  ;-)

>Here we have a problem - just what _is_ SVGA?  Anyone care to define it?

There's no general agreed-upon definition for SVGA, anyone is free to make
up their own definitions.  According to you, SVGA is any mode above 640x480
with less than 8 bits per pixel, I simply took it to mean any mode above
640x480.  No one has said the "VGA" part of SVGA implies 8-bit color and
18-bit CLUT.  But arguing over this term is rather meaningless, unless the
industry can come up with a precise definition, now that IBM has lost its
influence, this will be hard to do.

>As I see it, IBM defined the VGA standard.  
[ David's interpretation ]

>In other words, SVGA is an improved version of VGA.  But, but VGA offers no
>direct-mapped (true colour) modes, such as 15, 16, or 24-bit.  The cards
>which offer these modes don't refer to them as SVGA, they talk about things
>like "HiColor" modes.

But these cards are still called SVGA cards, no?

>Am I just splitting hairs here?  No, I think it helps communication to have
>meaningful labels.  If every framebuffer, with whatever features - full
>24-bit even, that gets introduced is called "SVGA", how do we distinguish
>those with only VGA-style 8-bit modes from true colour framebuffers?

I'd say we ignore any lables and go straight to the numbers.

>And, to answer the question, no, 24-bits is clearly better than 8-bit HAM.
>I just don't call 24-bit displays SVGA.

Even if the card providing such displays is called a SVGA card?  ;-)

Ok, Ok, I've wasted enought bandwidth on this one, I'll shut up now.

-- Nan
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:23150 comp.sys.amiga.misc:13465
From: Michael.Witbrock@cs.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: More AmigaWorld Lies
Date: 4 Sep 92 11:26:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.wedvVKS00j_HESKHpU
	<1992Sep3.232209.4485@news.iastate.edu>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.amiga.advocacy: 3-Sep-92 Re: More
> AmigaWorld Lies Marc N Barrett@iastate.e (1483)

> What's the population of Pittsburgh?  
> Probably pretty close to 4.5 million.

800 000 in the city itself. Around 2-3 million in the surrounding area.
But there's at least one more amiga dealer in the "surrounding area",
probably more than that, so...

Perhaps someone could trick 800 BE AMIGA (or what ever it is) into
listing all the dealers in the US, and then we'd know for sure, --- but
would it matter?, I wouldn't buy a mac or pc even if they sold them in
the supermarket next door.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: marnold@cwis.unomaha.edu (Matthew Eldon Arnold)
Subject: Re: MACers join the crowd...
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 02:50:05 GMT

danaf@bray1a.its.rpi.edu  writes:
>Everyone see the vote results in newgroups? Seems the MAC people now have their
> own advocacy group to shout ... uh... exchange ideas in. (Like they need it...
> in most of the world, either you BUY a MAC, or you can't AFFORD a MAC...)

At times it seems the majority of people posting here are IBM freaks.
The lurk in the shadows ready to lead a naive Amiga owner back to their
cave where they have a < $1000 486 setup running Wing Commander II and
MS-Word for Windows 2.0 simultaneously under OS 2.0.  After building up
a false sense of security, they then pump the unsuspecting Amiga owner full
of the Intel gospel!    GASP!!     (all is quiet)

The next time you hear from the poor user, he's posting to comp.sys.amiga.
advocacy with the following message:
   "I finally saw the light.  I went out and bought my 486/33 the other
    day.  My Amiga 500 is sitting in my closet now.  Etc"

What's the point?  You'll find it all right here in comp.sys.amiga.advocacy!
I went searching for more appropriate newsgroups.  I found:
   comp.sys.macintrash
   comp.sys.atari.chomps.the.big.one
wanna know how many messages in these newsgroups???  Zip, none, 0
Comp.sys.amiga.advocacy has multiple thousands of messages and readers...
why post anywhere else?

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------///----
The best way to accelerate an IBM is 9.8 m/s/s          ///
marnold@cwis.unomaha.edu                            \\\///
-----------------------------------------------------\XX/-------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: 10667547@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (JIMMY FANG)
Subject: Re: Critical mass getting bigger? - was re: AmigaWorld Lies about Links
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 00:43:15 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.155016.23326@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> gfm@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (George Francis McBay) writes:

>	And where are all the IBM versions of Amiga original games?  The 
>problem with a lot of the Amiga users on this group is that they suffer
>from "the grass is greener" complex.  IBM games are generally flight sims
>and RPG games (Note: thats all that Gregory Greene, a confirmed Amiga->IBM
>convert, lists above.)  Amiga games are targets more towards action games
>and puzzle games, like lemmings.  I've seen a few games that were Amiga first
>(Not many) and they didn't look quite as good on IBM.  The point is, why 
>should we demand that companies port every IBM game to Amiga? Wouldn't it
>be better to ask for more Amiga-original games?  With the exception of SimCity
>and one or two other ports, I don't remember ever enjoying a ported game as
>much as some amiga originals, like Lemmings...

It seams with a lot of these new RPG (which I happen to like) is that is 
just adding more of the same without putting anything new into the genre.
If you used to fight one group of monsters to get to a new piece of puzzle, 
having to fight 10x as many groups doesn't make the game better in my 
opinion.  I suppose with big hard-drives, the ultimate aim is to fill 'em up.
But I digress...

Raw CPU speed is necessary for simulators, but fast graphics are needed to 
display the results.

What my original posting should have said "why couldn't they port 
software using the new AA modes".  The basic engine would be the same.  I 
think most software is written in C.  I don't believe much software is 
programmed in machine code/language on the IBM. 

G.Greene's reply (not a flame) was leaning more towards what is available 
today, not using tommorow's technology (or should it be in 8 days 
technology).

Jim Fang.





Jim Fang - Bachelor of Economics (3) / B.E (3) .-_|\        Snail Mail
Monash University - Clayton, VIC, Australia   /     \       POA Box 539
InterNet  10667547@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au     \_.-._/       Brentford Square
 E-Mail:  kroddos@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au            o     // Victoria 3131
          ece950aec3@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au       AMIGA \X/  Australia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
SOCIALIST: someone who has nothing and wants to share it with everyone.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: rickan@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Mark Rickan)
Subject: Doug Barney is the Antichrist (AW Lies: The Sequel)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, McMaster University
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 01:19:46 GMT

Now he's gone and done it. Nothing but blasphemous lies (not to
mention gutteral sounds, the occasional spinning head and a some
projectal pea soup thrown in for good measure).

On page 44 of the October 1992 edition of Amiga World, Doug Barney
states:

     "Since its release, the Amiga 500 has been Commodore's
      best-selling CPU, giving users multitasking, sound and
      great graphics for the price of a good, used moped."

I don't know about the rest of the world, but demographically speaking,
my area is rife with authorized moped dealers. I have yet to see
an Amiga 500 system comparably priced with a second-hand moped.
Obviously this is a desperate act of a disillusioned journalist.

Mark

-- 
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
 = Mark Rickan                         ...!uunet!utai!utgpu!maccs!rickan = 
 = DCSS, McMaster University               rickan@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca = 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: andrey@cco.caltech.edu (Andre T. Yew)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falc
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 01:06:03 GMT

jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

>andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes:
>>Then, by obvious implication, an operating system grafted on top
>>of another operating system is also a kludge.  Therefore, the
>>DOS box grafted to OS/2 is a kludge.
>>

>I don't see where you got this "obvious implication".  Software is different
>from hardware.  There's nothing kludgy about software layers; that's the way
>software is designed.  Consider X-Windows.  There's Xlib, above which is the
>X Toolkit, above which is a widget set (like Motif), above which is a virtual
>toolkit (like XVT).  So, OS/2 supports the DOS API.  I don't see anything
>wrong with that.  However, the amount of "kludginess" depends on which OS/2
>you're talking about:

	Isn't that comparing apples to oranges Jerry?  Everything
you can do in Xt can be done with Xlib (and vice-versa).
However, as you know very well, MS-DOS is incredibly limited
compared to OS/2.  Besides what the world is a DOS API?
Fscanf, fopen, mov, add?

--Andre

-- 
Andre Yew                             andrey@tybalt.caltech.edu (131.215.48.100)
From: doiron@starpt.UUCP (Glenn Doiron)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: More AmigaWorld Lies
Date: 11 Sep 92 23:02:01 GMT
Organization: 68K Software Development
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith

In article <1992Sep4.170730.27008@sbcs.sunysb.edu> dtiberio@libws2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
> In article <1992Sep3.070214.21249@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
[zap]
> >   My conclusion is that Mr. Barney has attempted one last flaming editorial
> >before bailing out of the Amiga community, and has done a blundering job of
> >it.  The response editorial by Mr. Barney was filled with more lies, 
> >innuendos, and double-speak than the original article, by far.
> 
> 	And are you not the expert? Maybe you should become the editor of
> a new magazine...call it 'Marc World'.

How about "FLAMingo World"

Glenn Doiron
--
Amiga UUCP+
Origin:  uunet!starpt!doiron     (Organization:68K Software Development)
         BIX: gdoiron
** Not enough memory to perform requested operation.  Add 4 megs and retry.
From: torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie)
Subject: Re: ADVOCACY'S TRUE DANGER REVEALED!
Originator: torrie@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date:  5 Sep 92 04:41:01 GMT

mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:

>         Forget about heroin, cocaine, alchohol...
>          make sure THIS doesn't happen to YOU!

>   PHASE 6 "...CDTV is dead..."

>This is the final stage of human degredation.  The netter becomes bored
>with simply poking fun at everything, and focuses on one entity to wage
>total war at.  Two sure signs of this stage is that his posts initially
>appear rational, but are incessantly negative, and almost constant
>foaming at the mouth occurs while posting.

  So it would appear you're well-entrenched in Phase 6 then Mike?

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evan Torrie.  Stanford University, Class of 199?       torrie@cs.stanford.edu 
Embrace rationalism, reject superstition.           Break away from the past.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: danaf@bray1a.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.)
Subject: Re: Icon default tool paths (was Re: A4000 Specs? Who knows.)
Reply-To: danaf@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 20:50:50 GMT


I GAVE you a "good solution" to the font problem. As I said, just allow the
user to select the font! The font requester is a standard call in 2.04, and a
config file in S: is no great chore. Hell, even my FILE REQUESTER (MFR, great
little hack...) allows font selection! 

I stand by my previous statement... any program that does not allow the user
to customize fonts under 2.04+ is NOT written properly...

-- 
/////////////////////////[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
(718)             (212)                        (516)             (518)
=======Amiuser============Frank R. Dana, Jr.============Doc Ami=======     
--------My opinions rarely reflect those of any sane person,----------
	   living, dead, or undead... that's gonna CHANGE.
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Marc Barrett: an Amiga pioneer (was Re: More AmigaWorld Lies)
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:28:11 GMT
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana

In article <1992Sep8.110655.24316@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>In article <53062@dime.cs.umass.edu> barrett@gleep.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett) writes:
[Marc barret reportedly saying:]

>
>>	o	Saying "Commodore is doomed" in 1988.  Gee... they're
>>		still around.
>>
>>	o	Saying "Commodore is doomed" in 1989.  Gee... they're
>>		still around.
>>
>>	o	Saying "Commodore is doomed" in 1990.  And so on.
>
>   Commodore is not growing, that's for sure.  In fact, if you take global
>inflation into account, Commodore's sales have been steadily decreasing since
>1987.

Does this include the Brazilian inflation rate in the 1988?
I hope you didn't mean GLOBAL, and average them out based on POPULATION
or something.

>   If Commodore improved 1000%, I would not complain, period.  The only reason
>I continue to post complaints is that I continue to see very little progress
>from Commodore.  In many respects -- especially marketing -- all I see is
>constant deterioration of their efforts.  For instance, only two years ago
>Commodore was making some reasonable efforts to get Amigas into universities,
>by advertizing in university newspapers, instituting the Amiga On-Campus
>Consultants program, and pushing Amiga UNIX systems into the research market.
>In the past year, *ALL* of these efforts have been complete curtailed.

Marc, I have never flamed you, so I hope you take this seriously :
why do you CARE to see progress in C= ?

If you don't, so what.

>>| Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
>| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu

Hey! Aren't you guys COUSINS?  I heard that Daniel Barret and Marc Barret 
were first cousins! Isn't this really true???

What was is...Dan and Marc's father were brothers, no?  Did you two,
like, go fishing togather when you were boys?

Wow! Imagine that!  I think it would be neat to have a relative posting
on c.s.a.a. like you two do, Marc and Daniel  Barrett.


(Wow, I'm soooo bad!  B-)  )
--
Dan Stephenson                                           das9674@usl.edu
" BERLIN WALL FALLS.  3 BORDER GUARDS LOSE JOBS.  CLINTON BLAMES BUSH! "
        -George Bush, '92 Republican nomination acceptance speech
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: wallmann@backus.pu.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Natuerlich!)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Any Commodore users buying the Falcon in Germany?
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:08:46 GMT
Organization: MSD software vault #9 @THD

In article <1992Sep13.022041.11202@NeoSoft.com> peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>In article <etxansk.716218749@garbod20> etxansk@garbo.ericsson.se writes:
>> to be _the_ 8-bit computer, and the Amiga can't compete with the PC. Atari
>> will probably make advanced 680x0 technology affordable once again,
>
>Only for people who don't need to run old software. People get on CBM's
>case for breaking software, but it's nothing next to Atari. The original
>Atari system software used reserved opcodes for system calls, and was bug
This is very old shit. TOS has evolved since then quite a lot.

>for bug compatible with MS-DOS (down to having useless system calls like
>DUP... DUP is meaningless on a single-tasking system). And they've never
>learned...
(*)

How goddamn awful if Atari for increased compatibility with MSDOS included
so-called "useless system calls". For Amiga cheerleaders like yourself there's
nothing the competition can do, that's right. If they provide (cheap) hardware
compatibility to allow programs who program the hardware directly to run on
newer machinery, the machinery is a kludge. If they fix old bugs in their
ROMs they are willfully breaking "good old" code and wasting $$$s of invested
users money, if they don't fix the bugs they never learn. I as a guy who
programs a whole lot on my Atari, am quite content with the way Atari handles
the compatibility issues. Compared to the workstation machinery (Symbolics/HP)
we have here, you lose less software upgrading TOS versions than upgrading UNIX
or Genera versions. Most software written on higher versions is even downward
compatible.

>>  Yes, there are kludges. The MS-DOS' 640K barrier is a kludge. Atari's
>> backwards compatibility features with their new chips form a big
>> kludge. I just can't see why the Amiga won't suffer from this?
>
>Because the Amiga had a competant operating system from the start.
Chuckle. In the beginning it was "how many minutes can I run the machine
without crashing". If the Amiga wants to stay as compatible as the ST, which means
that reasonably well behaved programs that do access hardware will work on
newer machinery, they have to kludge it up, or refrain from making any real
progress.

Nat!
(*) Here at work I won't swear to this, but I believe a few shells on the Atari
actually use Fdup()
P.S.: The Falcon (at time of writing) is not out yet in Germany

-- 
 -----   Email: wallmann@backus.pu.informatik.th-darmstadt.de  -----
                "Bang that bit that doesn't bang"                 
 Album of the month: "Psalm 69" Ministry
From: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dungeon Master Re: Critical mass getting bigger?
Date: 10 Sep 92 03:32:28 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:

>Someone said here that DM had been 'topped' on the Amiga..I assume
>you weren't meaning WEye of the Beholder? (Although *I* think it does)

>What is it?  Wanna describe it?

>--
>Dan Stephenson                                           das9674@usl.edu
>" BERLIN WALL FALLS.  3 BORDER GUARDS LOSE JOBS.  CLINTON BLAMES BUSH! "
>        -George Bush, '92 Republican nomination acceptance speech

Black Crypt, maybe...  I haven't seen either one of them though...

Yours Sincerely,
Kelvin

                                            ____________________________
 __________________________________________/ Undergraduate, Class of 94 \___ 
/____________________________________________________________\_____/________\
|  Kelvin    /   Internet: Kelvin.Leung@Dartmouth.edu       ({o   o})       |
|   Leung   /       or     abs0@Coos.Dartmouth.edu        <  #  ^  #  >     | 
|__________/_______________________________________________(vvvvvvvvv)______|
| "Unless someone like you cares a whole |  Do you see a doll? a beast?     |
|  awful lot, nothing is going to get    |                                  |
|  better.  It's not."                   |  There are always more than one  |
|               -- Dr. Seuss (The Lorax) |  side to any story...            |
 \______________________________________/ \________________________________/
From: ralph@bugend.edvina.se (Staffan Vilcans)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Atari Falcon Discount Supermachine
Date: 9 Sep 92 11:46:03 GMT
Organization: Bugend BBS

kjohnson@castor.cs.uga.edu (Kristopher Johnson) writes:

> What's so laughable?  The Mac is also one of the biggest music platforms
> and the IBM clones aren't that far behind.

The latest time I had some information IBM and Amiga was in the same 
place, with Atari topping the list.

---
Only beer makes it possible in a mental hangover...