From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Adiposity 101
Date: 31 Dec 92 07:36:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec31.073630.4292
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Dec31.063136.21570@omen.UUCP> caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg) writes:
>Actually the information appeared in the American Journal of
>Clinical Nutrition, the mouthpiece of the diet establishment,
>virtually the sole source of papers Gordon uses to dispute some
>of the points made in Adiposity 101.

So?

>The 40-50% figure is what the author told me in a recent
>telephone conversation.

If they don't go into ketosis, what does it mean?  Frankly, it sounds
like a miracle drug: "new research means that people on the Atkins Diet
need not have bad breath which kills at 50 paces."  Listen, if you weigh
400# and eat 1500 kcal/day as hamburger, you're going to lose weight,
ketosis or no ketosis.

>I did find a few references to citric acid and metabolism in the
>literature.  It is not just another carbohydrate.

I said it was metabolized _like_ a carbohydrate.  More properly, it's
metabolized like citric acid.

>The paper is in Am J of Clin Nutr 1992;56:217S-23S.  It has some
>rather interesting findings about VLCD and their remarkable
>sensitivity to tiny variations in CHO.  Wouldn't hurt to read it.

You mean if people add 1/2 a scoop more of their infernal powder
to their morning concoction this makes a difference?  This is
princess and pea material.  Why can't people be as anal-compulsive
about the three or four donuts they used to eat daily for breakfast
(and the remaining from the dozen for snacks during the day) when
they weren't dieting?

The abstract of this paper doesn't indicate that its focus is
citric acid or carbohydrates at all, but on body composition
changes during VLCDs.  I'm planning to look at it when I get
the chance, but I am a bit suspicious that you've taken this
citric acid stuff out of context.

>And just who does have such an intelligent filter?  Let the one
>with a statistically significant long term cure rate cast the first stone.

What I'm worried about is that you've taken an unimportant side comment
about citric acid and imbued it with unwarranted importance, importance
which even the author didn't forsee.  S/he has an "intelligent filter",
most of the educated readers of Am J of Clin Nutr have an "intelligent
filter", Gordon and I have an "intelligent filter", but you don't, as
far as I can see.

>Until there's a cure (or even a safe and effective treatment)
>many will use VLCD and/or Atkins.  As reported on the net, results
>with Atkins have been spotty.  Switching from Diet Coke to Dr
>Pepper might help some of them.

The only people I've seen who have mentioned Atkins are you and Yazz,
and it worked for him.  And I hope you meant Diet Dr. Pepper.

>I didn't claim that avoiding citric acid was the key to life,
>the universe, and eternal thinness.  I didn't claim it has an
>effect on my health.  But it might be useful to some, unless
>you feel they should suffer for their sins.

No, I don't think they should suffer.  But I don't see the point of
slavishly glomming onto biochemical minutiae when just about every
obese individual has far more gross behavioral matters to deal with
which would have a far greater impact on their weight.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer