From: gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: Us v. Them (was: Wolf Summit in Alaska)
Distribution: world
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 09:58:30 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <1992Dec18.145429.10531@ornl.gov> de5@ORNL.GOV writes:

 > What "powers that be" are basing their decisions on our insignificant
 > little debate?  Or are you extrapolating the situation in
 > alt.sustainable.agriculture to the entire international agricultural
 > community?

Well, I do agree with you here; I neither give two hoots about who else
might be lurking, only as I have mentioned before at least you might
talk a little sense under the group heading and do some homework on the
various threads we might be seeking discussion on from time to time.

 > USENET is not a big input into the executive decision making process.  You
 > apparently have little understanding of the makeup of USENET readership. 
 > Nobody who's been involved with USENET for more than a year or who has
 > even the barest understanding of human nature would be the least bit
 > surprised that people take "potshots" at each other in debates.  It's the
 > grandest of USENET traditions: the flame.

The point of your argument here, Mr Sills, is lost in the conventions
under which news.groups are formed. If you just want to just babble on
and on about nothing no groupings at all need be formed, while plainly
some people do want discussion restricted to a definable topic and so
quite deliberately select particular groups to add to their news reader.
As it is there are well over 1,000 groups to select from, yes?

 > That was kinda inappropriate, but then, so was Gil's response.  Mature
 > USENET'ers just let isolated off-the-wall articles pass.  They realize
 > that bitching about them just fuels the fire.  This thread is a perfect
 > example.

Well yes, I agree with you here on both points. I simply wonder how
you relate them to your "grandest of Usenet traditions" cited above, or
to the lessons plainly to be learned by newcomers about having to cope
with some real first class motherfuckers whose sole ambition in life
is to abuse anyone who appears so bold as to actually post an item to
a news.group?

Being an expert by now, I am sure you will understand why there is so
much more discussion taking place via private mailing lists.

 > This is really funny.  Do you honestly take this newsgroup that seriously?
 > You and Gil both seem to think that this is some grand "International
 > Forum on Sustainable Agriculture" where the top researchers and
 > practitioners in the field meet to exchange ideas and politely debate the
 > issues.
 >
 > You're wrong.  It's an electronic "bulletin board" open to the public. 
 > It's not moderated, and there are no requirements or even guidelines on
 > the level of expertise required to participate.  The objective is not to
 > mold world policies or steer research and development or publish new
 > findings, as they would be in a serious forum like the one I described in
 > the previous paragraph.  Those are great, important, and necessary, but
 > that's not what this newsgroup is about.  It's a place where interested
 > people of varying levels of knowledge on the topic can informally discuss,
 > debate, and pass information on to others.

Again, I don't see any "powers that be" I should be trying to impress,
merely seeking discussion from whoever wants to join me on matters I have
the same right to submit here as you or Mr Lun .... oops, London.

Surely you will agree that the forum can be as serious or informal as
each user wishes it to be, without ever being exposed to the level of
bloody mindless crap coming from you and your mates on whatever they
choose to post here. As I have pointed out already, while you keep it
up I don't mind at all, myself.

On the other hand, your mob can always stick to its own discussions
and simply leave us to ours. I mean, you can always just *stop* your
constant one line interruptions and let us get on with it?

--
Gil Hardwick                          Internet:  gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au
Consulting Ethnologist                              Fidonet:  3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                         Voice:  (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *