HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Mongol Recurve Bows
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 09:03:00 -0700

Will the nice individual who sent me several additional references on 
Mongols (which I promptly lost along with his name) please be kind enough to 
resend them...
              I really was interested... Jessica
From: UDRJ010@oak.cc.kcl.ac.UK (Etienne)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Follower/leader & Arabic title note
Date: 10 Jan 93 12:11:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Greetings unto the Rialto from Etienne;

	Upon further research(my trusty English-Arabic dictionary) the exact
translation for baron is bahroon(yes, just like the Queen of the Moon in
Baron Munchausen says it).  Obviously a word transplanted into Arabic.  
Wazir is indeed as Caraidoc mentioned, a better term for a seneschal.  
I stiil have qualms about using Emir for Baron.  Emir does have a meaning 
of prince-a leader of an area and people who owes who may or may not
owe allegiance to a king.  I'll keep working on it. . .

___________________________________________________________________________
	What in blazes is going on here.  I start seeing quotes from 
previous posts which tell me as a member of the society that the majority
does _not_ matter????   I BEG TO DIFFER!  It may indeed be the sociological
case that 10% of a given population are cut out to be leaders.  Nowhere
in that statement does it say whether such leaders are good or bad.  It 
seems that recent postings assume that If you are among the "Blessed" 
10%, then you have the right nay, duty to lead the hapless masses.
Get a grip.
	A previous posting (long time back) mentioned that a sociology 
student explained the structure of the SCA to a professor of theirs who
promtly stated that such an organization could not exist.  It seems that
the SCA is an exceptional(read unusual) social group.  It would say that it
is highly unlikely that the SCA conforms to this general rule.  The level of
political complaint should be some indication.
	As for dragging people by their ears into the Light;  I have previously
advocated persistant persuasion by word and deed.  I do not believe that 
the author meant his statement literally.  I also believe, however that
we cannot legislate this; which I believe was the implication. (please
correct me Ike)
	Anyway, there's my $1.59 . . . thought inflation you know!

						Etienne Harcourt de Lyon
						Herald of Pont Alarch
						Drachenwald, East

		Argghh! I can't believe I have to say this!
		But that's what Mongols are for I guess. . . 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: vader@meryl.csd.uu.se ("]ke Eldberg")
Subject: Frequent reigns & royal visitations
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 00:35:45 GMT

Greetings from William de Corbie!

Palymar writes:

>I agree with Dennis that shorter reigns are the best way for go (for
>lots of different reasons) if your goal is to have regular Royalty
>visits for the following reasons:

>New Royalty are fresh and energetic.
>Frequent Crown Tourneys increase the chance that a fighter from the
>   more distant groups might win.
>Frequent Crown Tourneys increase the chance that a financially capable
>   couple will be on the throne.
>There are too many groups in the larger kingdoms for one set of royalty
>   to make it to all the groups even in two years (Midrealm has over
>   100 groups, Ansteorra about 45, Drachenwald about 30)
 
If frequent royal visits are so important that we need to design our
whole system in a special way just to make them possible, this is a
sign that our Kingdoms are too big.

Why not have several Kings and Queens at the same time instead? Crown
25% of the people who enter Crown tourney, and send them out to visit
all parts of the realm!

Or make every tournament a Crown one, like in professional boxing:
let the King defend his throne every time... Have a new coronation
every 2 weeks!

No. I am not serious. I just think that the importance of royal visits
is being vastly exaggarated (not necessaryli by Palymar).
I much prefer a sound system of rulership to an ongoing sports competition
where everybody *must* meet the champ.

William

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: habura@vccnw04.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Subject: Heralds from the 
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 13:45:11 GMT

(the subject line up there should be "Heralds from the Mists of Time")


A question for those of you who have been in the SCA since the early years:

We've been having a discussion on the Heralds' Mailing List about why each
SCA branch is required to have a herald. It's apparent that the founders 
thought heraldic arts were important enough that every branch needed one, but
we can't figure out *why*. (Corpora requires a seneschal, a herald, and 
either a MoAS or a marshal.) Knowing as I do that heralds weren't around as
an actual office for the first few years of the SCA, I am naturally curious
about when they began to be considered as essential. 
Would those of you who might know enlighten us?

Alison MacDermot
*Ex Ungue Leonem*

From: Longshot@f19.n291.z1.fidonet.org (Longshot)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: The SCA Religion? ( was: Through a looking glass, darkly)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1993 18:18:30

A node called David Greenebaum coded to node All,
on 19 Dec 92  20:22:42, about The SCA Religion? ( was: Through a looking glass, darkly);

 DG> Hello from Bjalfi!
 
 >When you look at the sense of community the SCA provides, I think calling it a
 >fraternal organization, such as the Masons/Elks/etc., is much more accurate.  
 >A'isha bint Jamil, of the Barony of Stonemarche, in the Kingdom of the East

 DG> Okay, everybody, so what's the SCA secret handshake?  (Not the Laurel
 DG> handshake, the Pelican handshake, the Herald handshake, or any of the
 DG> subgroups--I want to hear what's the secret handshake for the WHOLE of
 DG> the SCA.)

lo'
   I think that that is the one done with the roll of duct tape in your 
extended hand.                                         ~ Aindries


... "Always carry a spare...of -everything.-" Ioseph of Locksley
 * Origin: Calontir -- We Deliver. (1:291/19.0)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cctimar@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Charles the clerk)
Subject: Re: dollar cost for awards
Organization: Shire of Glaedenfeld
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 00:15:46 GMT

To all upon the Rialto doth Charles the clerk send his greetings!

Rhys writeth:
> The trick being, of course, to find a 14-score yard range... We have enough
> 
> scores, I'm really hesitant.  I guess if longbows were given special
> consideration (as little as a separate class, even - which,

Fourteen score yards would be 200m.  (Assuming 28in yards.)  Yes, it
would be difficult to find a range this long.

Still, I like Graydon's suggestion.  If a group starts sponsoring
archery tourneys at the longest ranges they can find, and uses
discarded armour, stuffed and braced, as targets, I don't think it will
be necessary to create a special class for longbows, or for "authentic"
equipment.  How many modern recurves can put a fiberglass arrow through
14-gauge even at 100m?
--
    -- Charles, student, in Glaedenfeld, Meridies
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Thinkwell; Drachenwald ideas; Alternate Crown Types
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:33:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.232512.26138@progress.com> schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei) writes:
>Hal Ravn wrote:
>  It occurs to me that there is (somewhere--certainly in West Kingdom
>  Law and I *think* in Corpora) a requirement for the Royalty to
>  'consult with the Order(s)' before elevating anyone to them.
>
>Corpora 8/1992
>  VI.A.2.a.4: The Crown may elevate subjects to the Peerage by granting
>  membership in one of the Orders conferring a Patent of Arms, after
>  consultation with the members of the Order, and in accordance with the
>  laws and customs of the kingdom.  Restriction:  to advance a candidate
>  to the Order of Knighthood, a Knight of the Society must bestow the
>  accolade. (See VII.A.4.a.)

Thanks for pulling the correct quote. I nominate you for Rialto
Archivist.

>Hal, again:
>  I don't seem to recall anything that binds to consult *only* with the
>  specific order in question.
>
>True enough.

And then there's the other point that a few of us grumpy old folks
like to make--there's nothing that says the King has to act in
accordance with the wishes of any Order...  (I seem to recall an
elevation to a Peerage when the King specifically stated "in SPITE of
the wishes of your peers...".  The 'standard' Western wording is
"...Right mindful of the wishes of your peers...".)

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)

Nothing in this missive constitutes an act or opinion of the Lord High
Constable of the Kingdom of the West unless otherwise explicitly stated.
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |            You!
510-823-5447                 |    Out of the Gene Pool!
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Primitive FireArms
Organization: University of Toronto - Office of the Provost
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:13:41 GMT

In article <18322@bcars664.bnr.ca> Henry.Troup@BNR.CA writes:

>Aryk knows more about this than I, but there was a group of Elizabethan
>musketeer/arqubusiers and gentles with pikes drilling at Pennsic.  

The Borough of Southwark Trayned Bandes includes both pike and shot.  This
past year, the musketeers generally were on temporary duty, going back to
pikes when they found out just how heavy a musket is after the first
hour or so of drill.  The corporal of muskets is Mr. Sykes, who is called
Justinian of Rakovec in the SCA and who occasionally posts to this net.

>I recall that either the BoD or the Middle Kingdom forbids the discharge
>of black powder at events; however the use of a cannon for signalling
>the start and end of the battles at Pennsic was sanctioned for several years.

This past Pennsic, there was no discharge of black powder allowed
except for signalling the battles.  In previous years, various sorts
of firing demonstrations have been allowed.  This past year also saw a
prohibition on _modern_ firearms that did not apply to black powder
weapons.

The main problems of allowing black powder on a regular basis in the
SCA (as opposed to firing demos by specially trained people at
Pennsic) are:

	1.  The SCA's emphasis on _complete_ safety, which would
likely require non-period adaptations of weapons (somebody has posted
to the net that percussion caps should be used instead of matchlocks,
for example), would make it difficult to do good black powder stuff.

	2.  The SCA's emphasis on participation ahead of authenticity
would make it likely that non-period firearms would be allowed.  For
instance, would you tell a poor student with a Pennsylvania Rifle that
he had to drop $600 on a matchlock before he could shoot at the big
Musket Tournament at Ice Dragon?

	3.  Muskets are really un-chivalric weapons.  Even in 1600
(and later) pikes were considered appropriate weapons for gentlemen.
Muskets were popular, but theoretically suspect.

Aryk Nusbacher
From: jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:45:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: miracle.12Jan93124514
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

shapiro@cfsctc.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro) writes:

>I hear stories of how 'brave' the AMC members are for voting for a dues
>increase as it is supposedly political suicide. Well, to tell the truth, I am
>sick of such activities as being considered brave. The brave thing to do, in my
>opinion, it to be responsible to the membership and bite the bullet and
>actually do things which will generate revenue responsibly.

 Steve, you'll be happy to know that Joe Zanca, the New England RVC (the
 person upstairs from me in the Mensa politics game) was very much against
 the dues increase.

 Also, I'm doing the 3 year membership bit, because, just like your average
 Mensan, I want to save $$$ too.  It comes out to something like $33/yr.

 Instead of getting wrapped up in National Mensa foobars, why don't you
 check out your own local group?

>My second issue is with the supposedly non-political or non-partisan standing
>of Mensa. For an organization which supposedly has no political opinions, they
>seem to be putting an awful lot of partisan stuff into the Bulletin. I wouldn't
>mind so much if they at least balanced it, or if historically they demonstrated
>some sort of balance. However, the last several months have been blatantly
>partisan and in fact, insulting to my own political opinions.

 The Bulletin has a track record of being safe, dull, safe, dull, safe, dull,
 safe, dull, safe, dull, ......  ANY controversy can only HELP it's readership
 now!
                                            - John Cooley
                                              Secret Cabal Leader, Boston Mensa


 ==========================================================================
       John Cooley              Zappa as a waste management engineer: 
                                  "Hey, there, Brother!  Whatcha
    jcooley@miracle.com            doing with that Cosmic Debris?"  
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Atheism and Intelligence
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:19:19 GMT

In article <Geoff.6pkp@equinox.gen.nz> Geoff@equinox.gen.nz (Geoff Mccaughan) writes:
>gilbert.m.stewart (gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com) wrote:
>
>>Speaking of adding up ages, I remember a story about folks in the Ural
>>(sp?) area in Russia.  It seems they all lived to extraordinary ages,
>>in the realm of 130-140 years old.  They all ate yogurt.  The Dannon
[....]
>I recall an investigation that found these folks were more like 80 - 90. A
>lot of them had either lied about their age, or taken on the identity of
>older people in order to escape conscription for military service. I think
>it was in the Caucasus rather than the Urals.

Yeah, I think you're right.  But 50 years older??  That's the best match
they could find??

"Hey, you're about to be drafted!"

"Sorry.  I'm not really 19.  I'm, um... (think fast) SIXTY NINE!!  YEAH!!"

"Oh.  Sorry to have bothered you."

I guess I've seen stupider things happen.

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 07:12:39 GMT

In article 20033@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com, johnson@sleipnir.pb.wes.mot.com (Mark Johnson) writes:
>
>As far as changes in IQ, I'd be interested to know how controlled the
>circumstances were when documenting 30 to 40 point changes.  I,
>personally, have got a fairly inconsistent set of results:
>
>Age	IQ
>---------------------
>7	179  test unknown
>13	110  test unknown
>18	135  estimated through percentile from SAT
>18	144  estimated through percentile from ACT
>34	165  Langdon Polymath (self-scored)
>
>My own theory is that I think differently enough from most people that I
>can excel in some areas which are considered difficult, while falling down
>in others which most people find easier.  Thus, my score is far more
>dependent on the individual test, or even the individual questions, than
>people whose mental skills are arranged in a more typical fashion.  In
>particular, I would score higher on a test which was designed with
>questions and problems that the writers considered harder.  It
>could be interpreted, though, that my IQ dropped an amazing 69 points in
>the second seven years of my life, and rebounded almost completely since
>then.  I suspect I may be highly abnormal in this inconsistency, but most
>probably not unique.
>

You have two well standardised test scores which fall roughly within the
margin of error for each of the tests.  You have two scores, widely varying,
both taken at a young age, about which nothing can be said.  And you have 
the last score which I do not believe has any validity or comparability to 
any accepted IQ score.

While you may imagine yourself to have experienced 30 to 40 point changes,
and your explaination of why this occurred may provide you some comfort, 
I see nothing to support this.  

If you took the Stanford-Binet tommorrow and came up with 165, I'd believe.
What you have shown is 135-145 IQ scores, a small sample, with significant
noise.


---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: questionable cancels?
Date: 12 Jan 93 22:40:22 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

Thanks for pointing this out, Kjeld.  This just goes to show that
Tai/Park/Baldwin/etc. is an even bigger bastard than I had believed.  too
bad that he is a coward also.

In article <01GTEC6QL7XEBDJIQD@ccfvx3.draper.com>, skh4161@mvs.draper.com
(Kjeld Hvatum) wrote:
> 
> 
> FYI, according to this news control message, EDWARD LEE
> BALDWIN canceled one of Mike Steiner's messages.  In fact, three
> other messages of his were canceled in the same manner, and all
> from NCSU.EDU, previously abused by the tedious "Scott Tai".
> Mike, did you agree to this cancelation?
> 
> Just thought I'd let people know, since most news systems
> just silently delete messages in response to control messages,
> which only show up in the "control" newsgroup.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Control: cancel <mike_steiner-070193170153@192.35.50.131>
>  GMT
> Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
> Path:
>  ns.draper.com!noc.near.net!uunet!ferkel.ucsb.edu!taco!eos.ncsu.edu!elbaldwi
> From: elbaldwi@eos.ncsu.edu (EDWARD LEE BALDWIN)
> Subject: cancel <mike_steiner-070193170153@192.35.50.131>
> Message-ID: <1993Jan11.144742@massima.com>
> Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)
> Organization: North Carolina State University
> References: <01GT7GVXIZAAADDWGI@ccfvx3.draper.com>
>  <1993Jan7.060255.2079@julian.uwo.ca> <mike_steiner-070193170153@192.35.50.131>
> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:47:42 GMT
> Lines: 1

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: eiverson@nmsu.edu (Eric Iverson)
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Organization: Computing Research Lab
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 05:13:36 GMT


I think a good measure of intelligence would be whether, after joining
Mensa, you have the good sense to quit.  I can honestly say that I
have never met a bigger bunch of minutiae crazed, self-important
blowhards in my life.  My next door neighbor (170 IQ, Ph.D in physics
at age 21) who joined with me was even more infuriated.  Sort of like
the meeting the bottom 2 percent of the top 2 percent.  As far as I'm
concerned, the truly intelligent are those who don't have time to pat
themselves on the back for having such a wonderful brain, because
they're too busy using it.  But then what do I know?  I'm only working
on my second Master's degree.  Maybe I shoulda joined Densa instead.


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Iverson				Internet: eiverson@nmsu.edu
Computing Research Lab
Box 30001/3CRL				Life is something to do when
New Mexico State University		you can't get to sleep.
Las Cruces, NM 88003-0001			-Fran Lebowitz
VOICE: (505) 646-5711	
FAX:   (505) 646-6218
Organization: Not really.
Date: Wednesday, 6 Jan 1993 09:22:42 EST
From: <FDMWINK@UCF1VM.BITNET> "Larry Wink"
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
 <1993Jan4.204851.17743@julian.uwo.ca> <1993Jan5.141731.22407@wam.umd.edu>
 <1993Jan5.171804.26399@cbnewse.cb.att.com>

In article <1993Jan5.171804.26399@cbnewse.cb.att.com>, gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com
(gilbert.m.stewart) says:
>
>SAFE!  EASY!  FUN!  GUARANTEED TO MAKE YOU A GENIUS!
>
>If you would like your IQ measured in the privacy of your own home,
>send a short paragraph describing WHY I AM A SMART PERSON and $5 to:
>
>
>  MARK STEWART'S OPINION OF YOUR IQ
>  G. Mark Stewart
[etc]

An invaluable service to NetLand.  But Mark, the people who would be
availing themselves of your service KNOW that they only get what they
pay for.  Raise your price an order of magnitude and the number of
takers will increase by at least two orders.

BTW, the 900 number (to determine your IQ via T/F questions) I posted
a few days ago is a no-shitter real 'service'.  Ain't life a kick.

 --Larry Wink
From: shapiro@cfsctc.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Date: 12 Jan 93 20:22:12 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - Marlboro, MA
Organisation: SKS Computer Consulting, Inc.


In article <1993Jan12> griffidc@c-17igp.wpafb.af.mil writes...

>If I were running National as a business, there are a few options I
>would at least look at.  First, why are we located on some of the most
>expensive real estate in the country?  A move into the heartland would
>a) lower rent, utilities, wages and salaries; b) provide greater
>geographic access for those of us outside of NY; and c) I suspect,
>broaden the editorial viewpoint. 

This is an issue that we addressed with national way back in 1983-1984. At that
time, the 'answer' was that Margot wouldn't work/live/exist/move anywhere else
and therefore, national wasn't going to be willing to move the headquarters
(because she was the high priestess of Mensa).

I knew her personally and thought that what she had done for Mensa was
unparalleled. It could be argued that there wouldn't be an American Mensa if it
weren't for her. 

However, an organization of over 50,000 members which puts the
wants/desires/needs of a single individual over that of the membership as a
whole is not serving those members of which it is comprised.

Regards,
Steve.

/*******************************************************************
* Steve Shapiro                 * All views and opinions expressed *
* SKS Computer Consulting, Inc. * are my own and are offered as-is *
********************************************************************
* Steve.Shapiro@f440.n101.z1.fidonet.org  BBS: (508) 664-6354 N81  *
*******************************************************************/
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Eric Roberts)
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:26:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.171012.22397@cbnewse.cb.att.com> gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>In article <mike_steiner-070193104411@192.35.50.131> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan6.214524.25582@julian.uwo.ca>, roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca
>>(Eric Roberts) wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know of any way to predict performance, what I do know is that 
>>> IQ tests fail to do so.
>>
>>SATs have proven to be a valid predictor of performance in the first year
>>of college or university.
>
>Out of curiosity, Eric, what has been your personal experience with
>IQ and SAT tests?  Do you have some information about any specific
>examples of their failures?
Do you have any of about them being successfull?
 
>
>Also, I was wondering if you had any theories with respect to why
>so many institutions use these tests even if they have been proven
>worthless.  Thanks in advance.
>
>GMS
Nope, I never figured that one out. One reason might be that people
attempt to measure everything, and feel more comfortable with a 
number. I hope you are not suggesting that the fact that 
people use those tests makes them valid...