From: unixwiz@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (Old Wolf)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Gay teens, suicide, Christianity, and Judaism
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:01:56 GMT
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc

In <1992Apr15.210646.16347@gboro.glassboro.edu> kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu (Dust In The Wind) writes:


>Justifying the hysterical flames that greeted Jack Carroll's earlier article
>Mr Carroll's comments are not `nonsense'.

>If religious Jews have opposed gay rights legislation, essentially approving
>of discrimination against homosexuals -- and some certainly have -- then
>Mr Carroll's comments are not `nonsense'.

excuse me...do you *know* what a religious Jew is??  Are you saying that a
religious Jew is a Jew with payes, tzit-tzit, who davens every day, etc is
a religious Jew?  Don't continue with stereotypying..

>Homosexuals in the US face a lot of needless grief, for no reason having to do
>with public safety or welfare.  Opposing efforts to relieve these problems is
>tantamount to endorsing them.  Jewish & Christian groups have been opposing
>gay rights legislation, and will probably continue to do so for some time to
>come.  If I were homosexual, I would be wary of Jews & Christians myself.

>As I said, I'm a Christian: everything Mr Carroll said about Jews he said
>about me.  If I can understand why he feels that way, and recognise that other
>Christians have given him good reasons to be unhappy with Christians, I do not
>know why none of the Jewish people participating in this thread can recognise
>that some Jews have given Mr Carroll good reasons to be unhappy with Judaism.

*SOME* Jews have given Mr. Carroll good resons...not *all*  and not
necessarily even all religious Jews...Mr. Carroll blasted all Jews who do
not put their "bloody, warlike" past behind them...

>Distancing yourself politely and indicating that
>you think those other members are misguided/a minority/idiots is a better way
>of responding than insulting people whose perspective of your religion is
>influenced by those other believers.  Flaming somebody for his perspective is
>`just nonsense'.

and Mr. Carroll was flaming Jews because we are Jews....
And maybe PC has gone too far...I refuse to follow all of PC's dictates
because I feel that thought control went out a while ago...Shouldn't it be
alright for me to feel sick about what someone else does??  I personally
don't like homosexuality..but I'll defend your right to practice...

>Ken Arromdee asked:

>> Someone claims I'm a bloodthirsty killer, and I'm supposed to respond to it
>> _meaningfully_?

>If he called _you_ a bloodthirsty killer, he also called _me_ a bloodthirsty
>killer.  If I can respond without flaming, why can't you?

why not??  because Christians don't have 2000+ years of persecution behind
them...and who knows how many years ahead of them...

>In retrospect, though, I have an answer for the question based on what I
>learned from this thread:

>    No, you're suppose to flame hysterically and call people names and wail
>    about how persecuted you are.  This is a sure-fire way to improve the
>    perception of your group, and illustrate how tolerant you really are.

and that shows that you don't understand what's going on here...

>Darren F Provine / kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu

y'rachmeal laeb simcha
unxiwiz@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu