HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gadallah@wu2.wl.aecl.ca (Larry Gadallah; B300-1-115; x2603)
Subject: Re:  Nextstep on NT
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Amateur Radio VE4TCP
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:31:00 GMT

I wholeheartedly agree with Matt Dillon's impression of Microsoft's
priorities.

As far as NT goes, if <you> need it, and it works for you, good for you.
As far as I am concerned, Microsoft is an organization that warrants 
opposition purely on moral and political grounds.

My own experience with PCs and Microsoft has demonstrated the unpleasant
reality that computing is to a remarkably large extent, a political
process, not a technical one.

Cheers,
Larry Gadallah
-- 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Larry Gadallah				Internet: gadallah@wu2.wl.aecl.ca
AECL Research, Whiteshell 		DECnet:   WL::GADALLAHL
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: fletcher@socrates.umd.edu (Charles Fletcher)
Subject: 3.0--It's Here, It's Here, It's HERE
Organization: University of Maryland University College
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 19:33:33 GMT

Rumors about the delay of 3.0 must be incorrect. My copy just arrived,
and it had to be forwarded since I have moved. The wait should be over
for the rest of you soon!-)

Charlie

-- 
	NeXTMail to:		|	...to confer, converse, and 
	charlie@technosci.com	|	otherwise hobnob with my    
				|	brother wizards.	    

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jbone@splat.dell.com (Jeff Bone)
Subject: Re: Feeling kinda bad... (Re: New idea ... (long))
Organization: Dell Computer Co
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:07:42 GMT


DISCLAIMER:  My opinions, not Dell info or position...


rpomeroy@aunext3.cam.amd.com (Ron Pomeroy x(Coop)) writes:
>
> So Jeff,  
> When did you say Dell was releasing that 66Mhz48616.7millioncolorsLocal  
> BusVideoEISANeXTstepBundledCellularISDNNetworkedLaptopThatRunsFor12HoursOn  
> BatteriesPortableFramegrabbinDSPing (black) machine ?
>

I've received enough of these that it necessitates a reply.  I'm not
privy to any relationship Dell may or may not have with NeXT, I'm just
an IS applications developer.  My preference for UNIX is my own and
doesn't indicate any particular bias of my employer.  And I'm not
aware of any forthcoming product announcements similar to what you
describe above (tho, like Judy Tenudo sez, It Could Happen. ;)

Sure would be cool if we had such a box in the pipeline, hmm? ;)


jb



--
-- Jeff Bone ------------------------------------------------------------
                  NT...  Just say N0T.  (Viva UN*X!)                      
------------------------------------------------------- jbone@dell.com --
                                                                       --
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: Sean_Church@pages.com(Sean Church)
Subject: Kodak  ponderings
Keywords: pre-press photo premiere
Organization: Banzai Research Institute
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:38:16 GMT

As a side note to why Kodak would make the first Unix tool kit for the Sun, it  
may have a little to do with the Marketing strategy from the .... Premiere  
workstation group. Yep... them dudes.
Premiere is  a product line from a subsidiary of Kodak, and all it really  
consists of (for the computer end) is Sun workstations with fancy schmancy  
software for photo retouching and pre-press. Kodak is out to try and corner the  
entire digital image market (in their eyes). Of course, it is "el expensivo",  
and a very restrictive system. (Who is Superset, and why is the Premiere users  
group hammering Kodak for all the tools that run on a Superset system ? .....  
past lives ... don't do that now.... can't go into it, to long...)
I believe "the image bank" is now owned and run by Kodak. It's been a while  
since I have followed this topic in the trade rags, but Kodak is trying to make  
digital images a real market, from the average consumers point of view. Why buy  
film, when you can just shoot the image, and display it on your television /  
monitor / etc. ?
And, then there is LVT, another Kodak subsidiary, who make a film camera device  
(drum type) that outputs RGB at over Res 60 (close to 1600 points of light per  
inch, and believe me, you can't see where one ends and the next one begins...)  
on a 10 " x 12" sheet of 64T Echtachrome film. Pricey pricey pricey stuff.

Why all this info on Kodak ? Just to say that Kodak is all for people using  
Kodak equipment for digital images. Toolkit for the NeXT ? Why should Kodak  
provide it ? Someone should get a copy of the Unix tool kit and convert it from  
SUN to NeXT lingo. 
Kodak, in the past, had a low response from the consumer market concerning it's  
introduction of it's first digital  camera. We will see what happens with this  
new thrust to change people off of film.

Also, can someone please explain to me the "completeness" of the color models  
that are used with NeXTSTEP ? 
This could be humorous. To think that what I am seeing is the ultimate in  
solutions....


Sean
sean@pages.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Nextstep on NT  RUMOR CONTROL
From: feijai@endor.byu.edu (Sean Luke)
Date: 10 Sep 92 20:37:42 -0700
Reply-To: sean@digaudio.byu.edu

In article <RFANTA.92Sep10122537@newport.cea.berkeley.edu>  writes:

[...referring to NeXTSTEP "being ported to NT"...]

>I would think this is already happening.  There were some comments by
>Avadis Tevanian (chief OS dude for NeXT) on the net a few months ago.
>If I remember right, the posting said he wanted to make NeXTSTEP more
>independent of the underlying OS.  Started to sound like a toolkit.
>Also, I've heard that Microsoft hired several of Carnegie Mellon's
>(where Tevanian is from) MACH people to design NT.  Lastly, it's been
>said that Steve Jobs has been seen talking to Bill Gates within the
>last year or so.  About what, who knows?


----------RUMOR DAMAGE CONTROL----------

Let's avoid getting into another "Is NeXTSTEP really going to NT?" kind of  
discussion.  Steve Jobs may or may not have been seen talking to Bill, as  
the rumor column in InfoWorld insisted (or was it MacWeek?), but this  
doesn't stop the fact that NeXTSTEP/486 will be NT's most significant  
competitor (it's small, but it's quality is so high that it will make NT  
look...not good).  Microsoft does not treat competitors lightly.

Microsoft has had a history of brutally smashing competitors for its  
operating system market share.  There is no way that Steve and Bill will  
cut a deal or NeXTSTEP will port to NT, because NeXT is making deals with  
Microsoft's biggest competitors (Novell, Lotus, WP, and... rumored...  
Borland).  Call Bill whatever you may, but he understands how to make a  
lot of money.  And that's not by selling out to the enemy.

NT is out (alpha anyway) and Microsoft has never, in its history, made  
deals with operating system or graphics-interface competitors of such a  
magnitude, quality-wise, as NeXT.  And it never will.  That's good  
business.  Immoral, but good business.

--

Sean Luke
Brigham Young University                   MILK:  It Comes From Cows
sean@digaudio.byu.edu  
NeXTmail and nifty Mac stuff welcome
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: dillon@overload.Berkeley.CA.US (Matthew Dillon)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Nike commercial spoof (NeXTStep vs. NT)
Distribution: world
Date: 9 Sep 92 09:30:07 PST
Organization: Not an Organization

>In article <jbone.715970500@splat> jbone@splat.dell.com (Jeff Bone) writes:
>standard disclaimers.
>
>You know the commercial, the one with Bo?  Here goes... :)
>
>   So UNIX is a little bit complex...
>   SO WHAT?!
>   Look what it's doin with that complexity:
>   It's fixin dinner.
>   It's scrubbin toilets.
>   It's spankin the monkey.
>   IN FACT, it's fixin dinner WHILE scrubbin toilets,
>   AND it's spankin the monkey in its spare cycles!
>   And what are you and your simpler OS doing?
>   YOU'RE TRYIN TO FIGGER OUT WHY YOUR PACKET DRIVER'S TOAST!
>   <knock!> <knock!>
>   I think you hear me knockin,
>   and I think I'm comin in,
>   and I'm bringing UNIX and its big, bad complexity with me.
>   Okay?!?!

    That would make a good commercial!

    Essentially, you are correct.... PC platforms are NOT less complex then
    unix platforms, people only think they are.  You spend more time
    juggling memory managers, network severs, and device drivers on a PC
    then any other platform in existance.

    EVERY time we get an update for our PC lan, for Windows, for our Cad
    system, backup system... any time we get an update it takes a WEEK of
    juggling the system configuration to get all these programs working
    with each other again.  Not to mention board addresses and interrupts!

    IF all you are running is a single application then your PC platform is
    a piece of cake, but most people don't run single apps anymore and the
    complexity has sort of snuck up on them.  Does anyone here seriously
    think that setting up a Novell network is easier then setting up a UNIX
    network?

					-Matt


>grinz,
>
>jb
>--
>-- Jeff Bone ------------------------------------------------------------
>      "Imagination is more important than knowledge."  - A. Einstein
>------------------------------------------------------- jbone@dell.com --
>									--

--

    Matthew Dillon	    dillon@Overload.Berkeley.CA.US
    891 Regal Rd.	    uunet.uu.net!overload!dillon
    Berkeley, Ca. 94708     ham: KC6LVW (no mail drop)
    USA 		    Sandel-Avery Engineering (702)831-8000

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: cgb@count0.cmhnet.org  (Charles G. Bennett)
Subject: Re: Object Oriented File System: Huh??
Reply-To: cgb@count0.cmhnet.org
Organization: BenaTong
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 05:11:57 GMT

In article <2596@tau-ceti.isc-br.com> jimc@tau-ceti.isc-br.com (Jim Cathey)  
writes:
> In article <60102@mimsy.umd.edu> alex@cs.umd.edu (Alex Blakemore) writes:
> >or look at the Mac, where if you write an ASCII file you can't read
> >it with another app have the time without hacking the file type.
> >type based on the creating app is a bad idea.
> >
> >NeXT improved this by defining standard types independent of the
> >apps that manipulate them.  Using file extensions to denote the type
> >is certainly not elegant and can be error prone, but it is simple and
> >it works.
> 
> A point of clarity, on the Mac the file type _is_ independent of the
> creator.  The directory structure holds _both_ type and creator, which
> gives you just what the NeXT does, except that each document can have
> its own preferred application (the creator field), regardless of its
> name.  I still think that Apple had the best idea here.  Changing the
> creator field on the Mac can be done with file hacking utilities, like
> ResEdit, or it can be accomplished simply by doing a Save-As (or even a
> Save) from within any other application that can read files of that
> type, even if it didn't create it. 
[munch]

Personally, I'd really like a hybrid.  I do like the Mac's way of associating
a file with an app.   What I don't like is that if you have an Adobe file for  
instance, and you double click it,  You get the damn.  App is busy or  
non-existant message..It up to YOU to know what programs that YOU have that  
might read the file.  I'd rather have the workspace KNOW whats out there and  
fire up WHATEVER I have that can read the format AUTOMATICALLY.   

What I'd really like is the ability to set which app will be the default on a  
PER FILE basis though, instead of a system wide one.

I know, I know, I want it all, thats why I bought a NeXT... :-)

Chuck


-- 
Chuck Bennett, BenaTong Consulting
Harem Security (UNIX Consulting :-) )
cgb@count0.cmhnet.org
From: andrew@cubetech.com (Andrew Loewenstern)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Open Letter: Don't get rid of UNIX
Date: 3 Sep 92 08:54:51 GMT
Organization: Cube Technologies, Inc.

In article <1992Sep1.035230.11510@leland.Stanford.EDU> m@crito.stanford.edu (M Carling) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.031649.20074@ni.umd.edu> louie@sayshell.umd.edu  
>(Louis A. Mamakos) writes:
>> I know of no person that has bought a NeXT
>> where it being a UNIX-based platform was not a requirement.
>
>Well, I didn't buy it myself, but ordered that it be bought. UNIX was not  
>only not a requirement, it was barely a consideration.
>
>I do think it would be a grave mistake for NeXT to discontinue UNIX  
>compatibility.


What the future may hold for NeXTSTEP and Unix, nobody knows for sure.
What is for sure is that NeXT, an infintessimally small company
compared to IBM and DEC, has managed to ship a killer OOOS with a
*dynamite* flavor of Unix alongside/underneath it.  There are rough
edges in NeXT's Unix flavor, but as a whole it seems to be way nicer
than AIX or Ultrix (cough cough).

Unix, with it's many face-lifts, nips, and tucks by various vendors
over the years, has carried itself well and has consitantly 'risen to
the ocassion.'  While NeXTSTEP proper may be relieved of it's
dependance on Unix, there will still be many valid needs for having
Unix 'down-there'...  particularly when mixing NeXT's with other
machines.  While NeXT could remove unix and write their own utilites
for interoperation with other machines, it would be a huge waste of
resources.

NeXT was smart enough to go with unix from the beginning, and I think
they are smart enough to stick with it for some time to come.  But I
don't think the AppKit will stick with it, if you know what I mean.


andrew
-- 
andrew@cubetech.com     | "We shall not cease from exploration
Andrew Loewenstern      |  And the end of our exploring
Cube Technologies, Inc. |  Will be to arrive where we started
                        |  And know the place for the first time." -T.S. Eliot
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jbone@splat.dell.com (Jeff Bone)
Subject: Re: NT is *NOT* Mach!
Organization: Dell Computer Co
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:44:43 GMT

andy@research.canon.oz.au (Andy Newman) writes:
>
>Whats more is Microsoft state (in the above referenced journal) that
>they are *not* going to tell people how to access the actual kernel.
>All interfacing with NT has to be via one of the user-level
>subsystems, i.e. MS-DOS, OS/2, POSIX or WIN32.
>

...so if I decide to write a SVR4 server for NT, even if it is technically
possible, I won't be able to.  Yup, sure sounds open to me.  Microsoft's
starting to sound like a B-rate sci-fi/horror flick from the 60's:

            "We will control all that you see and hear..." 


jb



PS - for all you developers out there eager to jump on NT, think about
this:  you griped when Apple developed both apps and OS software.  Why
are you so anxious to return to that situation with NT?  Your app might
compete directly -w- an MS app, and *they* know what's going on under 
the hood.


STANDARD DISCLAIMERS.


--
-- Jeff Bone ------------------------------------------------------------
        NT...  Just say N0T.   Skate UN*X!   Standard disclaimer. 
------------------------------------------------------- jbone@dell.com --
                                                                       --
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: todd@liveware.com
Subject: Re: Avoid RightBrain for RTF ? (Who the heck are you people?)
Keywords: BULL crap from the great white north
Reply-To: todd@liveware.com
Organization: Liveware Corporation   Fort Collins, CO.  USA.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:17:59 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.170756.6292@julian.uwo.ca> vesely@next.heart.rri.uwo.ca  
(Ivan Vesely) writes:
> In article <timm.716098845@void> timm@void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Tim McClarren)  
> writes:
> > glenn@rightbrain.com (Glenn Reid) writes:
> > 
> > > ......A handful of people (essentially
> > >all of them in college, for what it's worth) have decided that we are
> > >evil and wanton in our disregard for the net rules, when in reality it is
> > >not the least bit clear what is right and wrong......
> > 
> > No, you're evil and wanton because you show no consideration for other
> > folks.  That's my complaint. 
> 
> With RTF postings? Are you for real?
> 
> When will you people stop whinning about the evils of RTF posting?  Many of  
the  
> silent news readers out there actually LIKE RTF!  It brightens up their day.   
> Isn't this one of the joys of owning a NeXT?  Having fun with it, doing  
things  
> that others CAN'T do?  Avoiding RTF altogether, and using only plain boring  
> ASCII is sinking to the lowest common denominator.  I refuse to do that!  So  
it  
> costs a little bit more, that's the price of using this newsgroup. This is  
the  
> way THIS newsgroup has naturally evolved.  Don't spoil it for the rest of us  
> just because you're a tight wad.
> 
> --
> Ivan Vesely, Electrical Engineering and Medical Biophysics
> University of Western Ontario,     vesely@next.heart.rri.uwo.ca
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Man, who pays the bills here?  Get a life man.  These are
the days of layoffs, harsh real world realities and you 
talk about spoilage?  While you sit in a semi-insulated
environment, people with real jobs in the real world are
worried about if they are going to have their real jobs
in a 'real harsh world' each day.  And managers are worried
about budgets.  So lay off with THIS crap about spoilage.
The only thing that smells worse than your comments about 'evolution'
of the group is the attitude that you are somehow better than I
and I should pay for your special postings because you want it that way.

Todd
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: eht@cmu.edu (Eric Thayer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is Rick Rashid at Microsoft?
Date: 9 Sep 92 21:36:26 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <jbone.716051484@splat> jbone@splat.dell.com (Jeff Bone) writes:
> david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George) writes:
> >
> >The confusion probably arises because Rick Rashid, who you'll all know as  
one
>of the 'authors' of Mach (no it wasn't Avie on his own !), and some other  
Mach
> >guys are now working for Microsoft and no doubt bringing their Mach  
experience
> >to bear.
> >
> 
> Can somebody verify this?  I'm thinking somebody is just getting him
> confused with Dave C., but I could be wrong...
> 
> 
> jb
> 
It is true that Rick Rashid and some other Mach people went to Microsoft.
From: rgc@rac2.wam.umd.edu (Ross Garrett Cutler)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXT vs. (MIDI) Sampler
Date: 13 Sep 92 05:30:48 GMT
Distribution: na
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

kls30@cd.amdahl.com (Kent L. Shephard) writes:
: On a Mac you *can't* do anything else while recording since the
: Mac OS isn't preemtive..

You can *lose* sound when recording on the NeXT if the machine is doing
something else (like a compilation).  What's even worse is that you don't 
know you missed a segment sound.  I asked the makers of DigitalEars, and
they verified this, but also said, "You can tell when you miss a segment
just by listening to it."  A real bummer, IMHO.  

I guess the only solution to this is to have SoundKit run at the kernel
level (via a device driver).  Don't know why this wasn't done in the first
place...
--
Ross Cutler
University of Maryland, College Park
Internet: rgc@wam.umd.edu
Organization: Sophomore, Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Date: Tue,  8 Sep 1992 16:42:40 -0400 
From: Faisal Nameer Jawdat <fj05+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Object Oriented File System: Huh??
	<1992Sep7.051157.801@count0.cmhnet.org>

cgb@count0.cmhnet.org  (Charles G. Bennett) writes:
> 
> Personally, I'd really like a hybrid.  I do like the Mac's way of associating
> a file with an app.   What I don't like is that if you have an Adobe file for  
> instance, and you double click it,  You get the damn.  App is busy or  
> non-existant message..It up to YOU to know what programs that YOU have that  
> might read the file.  I'd rather have the workspace KNOW whats out there and  
> fire up WHATEVER I have that can read the format AUTOMATICALLY.   
> 
> What I'd really like is the ability to set which app will be the default on a  
> PER FILE basis though, instead of a system wide one.

various extensions will let you set alternate apps to open if the main
one can't be found, and this is supposed to be a feature of sys7.1
whenever that comes out...
or you can do what i do, which is to put alias icons of all the apps
you want to use on the desktop (like the NeXT app bar - that's where I
got the idea), and simply drop files onto them - if the app can read
it, it will open the app and file automatically, if not, the icon
doesn't light, and i look for a different way of doing things...
From: ieeesb@merrimack.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: NeXT RISC machine?
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:35:15 GMT
Organization: Merrimack College, No. Andover, MA, USA


To anyone who knows:

	I'm very interested in purchasing a high end NeXT system but I've
heard rumors that NeXT is going to put out a RISC-based workstation using
the Motorola 88110 with multiprocessing capabilties.  If this is true, does
anyone have an estimate when?  I'd rather wait a year and buy a machine with
more juice (for audio processing purposes) than to buy a NeXTstation Turbo
only to end up selling it to get a better machine.  If anyone has any info
on this matter, you can e-mail to the following address:

	fernandeza@lucy.merrimack.edu

Please don't send e-mail to the header address.  Thanks!!

				Alex

 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette)
Subject: Re: Avoid RightBrain for RTF ? (Who the heck are you people?)
Reply-To: nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:04:49 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.154040.18147@cube.handheld.com> jmd@cube.handheld.com  
(Jim De Arras) writes:

> You don't have to 'experence' pay-per-byte to
> understand it.  I resent being   told I MUST cater to those
> who cannot (or will not) `afford' a better   connection.  I
> don't mind a degree of compromise, but what is generally
> pushed   (demanded?) is totally for the pay-per-byters
> benefit. 

The first issue is putting "(RTF)" in the subject line.
You think this is an unreasonable request?

The second issue is RightBrain's flagrant violation of
the non-commercial guidelines for the USENET, for which
you may notice they apologized rather profusely.  You
think this is unreasonable? 

BTW, as one of the first posters to call for using a boycott
to pressure RightBrain into not posting huge RTF ads, I
must note that it seems to have worked quite well. 
However, I admire, and intend to (now) continue to
purchase products from a company that's not too
self-impressed to make a public apology. 

> Usenet traffic at my   site has increased from 20 mb a day
> last June to frequently over 50 mb per day   now.  The trend is
> going to continue.  Those of you with small pipes better  
> start looking at enlarging them. 

No, we simply should cut out RTF postings that have grown
to be as large as the source/binary group postings and
move them to a separate group, and the same for ads, which
belong in biz.* groups.

Voila, everyone gets (almost) what they want. 

--
Nathan Janette		"I'm a NeXTstep man,
Dept MB&B, Yale Univ	 I'm a NeXTcube guy"
New Haven, CT
nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (NeXT)
From: unregistered@newcastle.ac.uk (Scott A. McIntyre)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Jack Reynolds Apologizes to the Net (RTF)
Date: 9 Sep 92 11:29:50 GMT
Reply-To: S.A.McIntyre@durham.ac.uk
Organization: Synapse Computer Consultants
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

reynolds@rightbrain.com (Jack Reynolds) writes:
: 
: [apology]


I may be wrong, and if so, someone tell me off, but is this the same
Jack Reynolds who used to work for HSD and got in net.trouble for
posting RTF documents, and something about a naming contest?

For what it's worth, I think it's good that he has apologised, regardles
of how people interpret the apology.

Shame about the pricing structure...
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy