HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: otto@tukki.jyu.fi (Otto J. Makela)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:14:37 GMT
	<BsKsKt.148@apollo.hp.com> <63529@cup.portal.com>
	<63711@cup.portal.com>
Organization: The Crimson Permanent Assurance Company

In article <63711@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
   The nine named stars are:
   Atlas, the father, spectral type B8 III, magnitude 3.6 290 light years away.
   Pleione, the mother, spectral type B8, magnitude 5.1, 95 light years away.
   Alcyone, spectral type B7 III, mignitude 2.9, 240 light years away.
   Asterope, spectral type V, magnitude 5.8, 490 light years away.
   Celaeno, spectral type B7 IV, magnitude 5.5, 590 light years away.
   Electra, spectral type B6 III, mag. 3.7, 390 ly distant. -----JW

The aliens still couldn't count to nine ?
-- 
   /* * * Otto J. Makela <otto@jyu.fi> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */
  /* Phone: +358 41 613 847, BBS: +358 41 211 562 (V.32bis/USR-HST,24h/d) */
 /* Mail: Kauppakatu 1B18/SF-40100 Jyvaskyla/Finland, ICBM: 62.14N25.44E */
/* * * Computers Rule 01001111 01001011 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */
From: walsha@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Beginning to think is beginning to be undermined - Albert Camus.)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: "Create your own reality" redux
Date: 18 Aug 92 10:48:39 EST


Remember that wonderful old thread - do we create our own reality?
(people who had a nice reality thought we did, people who had
a lousy reality thought we didn't).

well, for a wonderful view of the question, check out the 
july/august Yoga Journal - there's a good article about
a quantum physisist who trained with some south american 
shamans and came back to suggest some interesting solutions.

   ando.
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:3786 alt.alien.visitors:5813 sci.skeptic:14527
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 06:20:20 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Dear Rock Racers: With the help of Jeff I was able to post the last
information from a floppy disk from my son's home computer. Their are
some obvious mistakes and omitted words but be patient with me.
I'll try to do better.
John Winston.
From: jim@philabs.philips.com (Joanne I. Murphy)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re:  Stargates
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:55:53 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Philips Laboratories


patb@tcom.stc.co.uk (Patrick Brosnan) writes :

>...and became instant addicts...



adrothst@athena.mit.edu (Andy Rothstein) writes :

>>This single line disturbed me the most in the posting.  I do not doubt that you
>>experienced powerful, intense things with the stargate.  I do think that the
>>reason you felt these things is open to interpretation - channeled beings, group
>>meditation, imagination-driven mind-body link, etc.  But to me the problems with
>>things like the stargate is that they are external to yourself and emphasis the
>>fact that it is something other than yourself.  IMHO, you contain everything
>>within yourself, and hence a spiritual practice should tell you to look within
>>for experiences.  Of course, there are many many valid techniques for doing said
>>searching; but when someone tells you that you need something outside of yourself
>>to heal or spiritually advance or whatever, I think warning bells should go off
>>telling you that they are not speaking the truth.  The seperation between inside
>>and outside is our ego.  Every spiritual path says that the ego is a part of maya
>>- it is not true.  And so the seperation between inside and outside is an
>>illusion - it is a seperation perpetuated by our own minds.  To me an addict is
>>someone who cannot help but look outside his/herself for
>>gratification/fulfillment.  

>>Anyway, this does not have all that much to do with the original posting.  It
>>just got me going on the seperation thing I guess.  Organized religions (Judeo/
>>Christian especially) have spread the lie that God is outside of you and that you
>>have to do this or that to go here or belong to this group or that group or that
>>God is in this place but not that place, AND ITS ALL A LIE!  God is you, you are
>>God, God is everything, God is in everything.  Perpetuations of the myth of
>>seperation bother me.  Patrick may not have meant to say anything at all about
>>our egos (that which artificially, arbitrarily defines our inside from our
>>outside), but anyway, thats my HO.




Yes!  I believe the universe lies within each and every one of us, and
that separation from the divine is an illusion (created by humans to control
humans?)   Yet, we are all connected, and to only go within to feel God
is limiting also.  Experiences like Patrick had go a long way to promote LOVE
between people, in feeling the God energy together, in feeling connected.
I think a balance of external and internal spiritual awareness is the
key here.  Too much internalizing leads to separatism from the universe,
too much externalizing leads to loss of ones "center", IMO of course.

From Patricks post, it seemed to me that the addiction he was referring to 
was more related to finally feeling the energy that he'd been reading about
for so long.
(Or maybe I am projecting here.)

In any event, life sure is fun these days...



Joanne
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley)
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 02:45:35 GMT

walsha@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Beginning to think is beginning to be undermined - Albert Camus.) writes:

>In article <sbuckley.714429755@sfu.ca>, sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley) writes:
>> bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles) writes:
>> 
>>>I AM LYING AS I SPEAK.
>> 
>>>Until you understand this koan, you will never understand the "new age."
>> 
>>   and like the tao which unintelligible, this koan and "the new age"
>> resist clearly delineated concepts.  but one can be delineated: that
>> there are no clear delineable truths.
>> 
>>   and this makes that koan, the tao and the new age unable to appeal
>> to many people's search for truth or understanding in the world.  it's
>> then irrelevant.
>> 

>Exactly. If you're searching for a highly dogmatic belief system,
>one with a concrete structure to reassure you, newage will not
>make you comfortable. And isn't this why the emery/nordeng
>vs. newage debates are so useless? Neither side is the least
>bit interested in what the other has to say. Both side are
>looking for, finding and taking comfort in totally different 
>world-views.

  not to speak for emery/nordeng, but like me, i assume they are interested
in what the new age thoughts are enough to keep asking for the ideas.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: adrothst@athena.mit.edu (Andrew D Rothstein)
Subject: Re: Goal vs. no goal
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 21:17:02 GMT


I'd like to offer a distinction in terms that may help this disagreement.  
I view goals as expecations for the future, and they are something against which
I measure my current position.  I don't particularly like goals.  Because you
almost always end up feeling small or inferior or inadequate when you measure
yourself against your goal.  

But then I don't think that having no goals means wandering aimlessly.  I use the
term "vision" for a foward-looking plan.  It is not a goal in that you do not
measure yourself against it.  In fact I'm not sure you ever reach your vision.  

Comparision (in this case between your present state and your goals) can never be
advantageous.  If you feel that you don't measure up, you feel inferior; but if
you judge yourself to be better than that against which you are comparing (in
this case, feeling that you have acheived your goals) you end up inflating your
ego. 

So to me, your vision is what guides you on your own individual path down the
road of life (and you keep on walking down in, at your own pace and all that
until you die), without the self-judgement involved with goals.

Why am I making such a big deal about accepting yourself as you are, while still
working to advance yourself?  Because this is one of the biggest things I am
working out for myself right now!  I drive myself very hard to improve myself,
and I am slowly learning that beating up on myself in very counter-productive. 
It's so ingrained though that it's hard to see it.  I am slowly getting more
comfortable with the idea that I can love who I am now and still want to move
towards my vision of myself.   
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley)
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:50:16 GMT

James Meritt writes:

>Alfred Sipols writes:

>}I couldn't help but notice that all of your verses are from the Old Testament.
>}The old law came to an end when Christ died on the cross.

>That's nice.  So I may discard any and every thing from the OT as I wish?

  well, you need to look to jesus as the one who will reconcile you to
god because the ot is fulfilled in him.  this means that the stuff of
the ot will not get you to god...because jesus does.  that leaves
the ot as [among other things] a neat novel, an interesting history
full of lessons and wisdom about knowing and learning about god and how
to and how not to live with him...but the ot won't save anyone.

Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:3943 alt.alien.visitors:5995 sci.skeptic:14811
From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:59:57 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU

In article <64384@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>I called Mr. Sheaffer by the first name of Ralph. He first name is 
>Robert. Please excuse me. I too busy to post more at the present time.
>John Winston.

I too busy to type the word 'am' (oops!). :-)

	RA
From: davidh@cascade.ens.tek.com (David Hatcher)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:06:46 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1992Aug19.222708.24340@tc.fluke.COM> emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery) writes:
>What I am saying is under the Newage thought, should the world be a place
>where killing is prohibited?  

  My "ideals" as I see Newage thought is that there will be no need 
for prohibition against killing because we will all be approaching our 
relationship with each other in a different way than we are now. This
different "way" will not be so focused in causing division by pigeon
holing people into boxes like the Christian tradition is so busy doing
today. I see us as being freed from the bigotry and hatred that that
particular system of thought has given so much birth to. And being freed 
from that system of thought, that I see as being based not upon unity, 
but separation, we will be more able to united as one family desiring 
to truly work and help each other to live more fuller lives. The need 
for killing ones friends is pretty low. Thus the need for "prohibitions" 
against killing will also be lowered.

  Lets look at this from another angle. What's the best way to keep
weeds from growing in ones garden? Is pulling them the answer? That
is the way most control weeds now days. But I would like to suggest that 
that IS NOT the the best way. The best way to control weeds is to 
very simply plant more flowers!!

  When I see things like "prohibitions" against different things, what
"I" see is someone who is really wanting to get out there and root out all 
of the weeds. What I do not see in such people is someone who approaches 
life as a planter of flowers. And it is a planter of flowers that "I" 
feel is one whom is really doing God's work.




	Love is the life force breathed
	into the Heart/Mind flower center
	of harmonious human relationships.
			Al Huang

	David Hatcher
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:3806 alt.alien.visitors:5838 sci.skeptic:14566
From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:36:17 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Kelvin dude. 

JW lent me a video insterview with this guy. Very interesting stuff. He
seems like a perfectly normal sort, just getting on in years and not
really healthy anymore (Kelvin that is).

Thanks John. Your latest posts are very interesting, although I'm not sure
I understand the Kibo thing. YOu'll have to explain it to me personally.
Please post more of that stuff you have on disk. sure is nice to be
able to post it all at once now, huh?

Jeff-
From: davidh@cascade.ens.tek.com (David Hatcher)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Date: 22 Aug 92 03:21:30 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <sbuckley.714451535@sfu.ca> sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley) writes:
>  not to speak for emery/nordeng, but like me, i assume they are interested
>in what the new age thoughts are enough to keep asking for the ideas.

  The thing is, they are interested only just long enough for them find a 
place in which they can say that the newage perspective is wrong and that 
their perspective is the only correct one.

  Which makes my think that they REALLY are not interested in what the 
newage perspective can teach them.


	David



Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: moskowit@tronsbox.xei.com (Len Moskowitz)
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 02:10:09 GMT

Stephen Buckley writes:

>  well, you need to look to jesus as the one who will reconcile you to
>god because the ot is fulfilled in him.  this means that the stuff of
>the ot will not get you to god...because jesus does.  that leaves
>the ot as [among other things] a neat novel, an interesting history
>full of lessons and wisdom about knowing and learning about god and how
>to and how not to live with him...but the ot won't save anyone.

If you were a polite person, or intersted in dialog, you might have
said "well, *Christianity says* you need to look to... ."

But you didn't.

Jews, of course, disagree with you.


-- 
---

Len Moskowitz
moskowit@tronsbox.xei.com (preferred address)
moskowit@panix.com (alternate address)
From: davidh@cascade.ens.tek.com (David Hatcher)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: inventing good and evil
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:00:41 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <sbuckley.714025658@sfu.ca> sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley) writes:
>Doug Thompson writes:
>
>>Good and Evil therefore are invented by human society as it becomes
>>more complex, more highly organized, and more subject to various
>>insturments of coercive control. 
>
>  how would you go about proving this conclusion is true beyond its
>reasonability at the end of an argument?  i don't think human beings
>are in a position to know what you assert with as much certainty as there
>sounds in your words.


  The evidence I tend to look towards that proved to me that Doug is right 
on in his observation is found with in life it self. When people are removed
from the picture, and the animals and plants are observed with a zen like
attitude of non-attachment, I personally have seen absolutely no concepts
of Good and Evil. The animals do what animals do, and the plants do what
plants do as they were created to do in the first place. They just are.

  But as soon a people get into the picture with their mental concepts,
suddenly all of creation becomes pigeon holed into various aspects that
have no meaning to the rest of the life forms here on Earth.


	Ecstatic Love is an ocean, and the Milky Way
	is a flake of foam floating on it.
					Rumi

	David Hatcher


Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:3748 alt.alien.visitors:5677 sci.skeptic:14328
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 06:34:36 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <63714@cup.portal.com> <63758@cup.portal.com> <63995@cup.portal.com>

As Dean Martin the TV star said on his show, Keep those cards and letters
coming in folks. Now for the latest reports of the fourth running of the 
OOBE Sweepstakes. We have Bridgit starting out pretty good by going to
an area on a hill with some people but she got a little mixed up and 
wound up in a neighbor man's bathroom. I tried to get Kumar jump started
by going by 15 minutes early but he just came back the next day with some
good feelings. Kumar thinks I sometimes talk in riddles. I guess it's 
true. I once heard of a person that talked in parables maybe for the same
reason. He would like to have me explain what sealing the aura means. 
Maybe I'll get around to doing that one of these days. I sent a picture
to the person I call D. and she did recognize me although she ====JW
From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:19:18 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>
>   Dear Rock Watchers: Dr. Demonde has found that rocks from around the globe
>   breathe, but just one inhalation can take anywhere from three days to
>   two weeks. They have also found that rocks also show signs of brain
>   activity. 

  Perhaps the good doctor can be induced to attach his instruments
  to your head and see if you have any sign of brain activity.  


---peter



Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley)
Subject: inventing good and evil
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 04:27:38 GMT

Doug Thompson writes:

>Good and Evil therefore are invented by human society as it becomes
>more complex, more highly organized, and more subject to various
>insturments of coercive control. 

  how would you go about proving this conclusion is true beyond its
reasonability at the end of an argument?  i don't think human beings
are in a position to know what you assert with as much certainty as there
sounds in your words.

Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:12:43 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU

In article <64018@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:

>good feelings. Kumar thinks I sometimes talk in riddles. I guess it's 
>true. I once heard of a person that talked in parables maybe for the same
>reason. 

Hell of a comparison there, John!

	RA
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:3953 alt.alien.visitors:6006
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs and Newage
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 06:25:36 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <64309@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug20.181900.16418@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>

Thanks Bob I needed that. It's good to know that someone is out there.
John Winton.
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:3822 alt.alien.visitors:5854 sci.skeptic:14588
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 20:51:31 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <64210@cup.portal.com> <64246@cup.portal.com>

Dear Astral Travellers: There is one thing that I didn't mention about 
this astral traveling and that is things can sometimes get pretty rough
do it. Sometimes people don't come back. The lady I call D. got the 
you know what scared out of her when she heard a womans voice and there
was no one there. During normal sleep on about monday of this week
I fell out of bed. When I got up a person pointed out to me that my
pillow had blood on it. It seems that I had cut my ear but as Dick
Tracy used to say it was just a superficial wound. Jeff came over in
the physical form yesterday and help me learn how to post from a floppy
disk to the net and also to go to the next page in posting.
I hope all is well with all of you.
John Winston.
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:3850 alt.alien.visitors:5895
From: merz@sitter.ips.id.ethz.ch (Andreas Merz)
Subject: Looking for Text from "Pleiadians" or "Saga of the Family of Light"
Organization: ETH Zurich (Swiss Federal Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:42:54 GMT

Can someone help me to get this text ?

Thank you.


                      Peace and Ligth with you all!

-- 
 ---------------> Andreas Merz  /  Internet: merz@ips.ethz.ch <---------------- 
 ------> Interdisciplinary  Project  Center  for  Supercomputing  (IPS) <------
 <-------- *THE* ultimate computer virus:  MSDOS - even with updates! -------->
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 06:46:03 GMT

I hate following up my own article, but my posting site will be down
tomorrow (E-mail to kestrel (fsl.noaa.gov) should still get through
though) and I thought of an additional item.

[quick, how many more words are there that pattern match "th*ough*"?]

Values based on "absolute truth" have no rhyme or reason.  They are,
simply because they were handed down from a higher authority.

Values based on pragmatic experience _do_ frequently have a structure:

   "You should not run over pedestrians with your car" because...
      "You should not cause unnecessary harm to others" because...
	 "All people have intrinsic worth" because...

With a robust set of meta-(and up)-values a person can quickly determine
an appropriate reaction to most situations, while a believer in values
based on "absolute truth" must consult a list of rules, exceptions,
special cases, etc.

If you are willing to do extreme violence to the term "absolute truth"
I guess you could equate it with the top-most value in this hierarchy....
In my case, I sorta imagine god sitting back and letting _people_
discover the truth for themselves, in much the same way that a good
teacher will let the students discover the truth for themselves.

IMHO, the worst possible teacher sez "Here are the facts.  Memorize
them.  Expect pop quizzes to demonstrate ability to parrot information."

(Then again, my god _is_ a teacher.  A trickster, but still a teacher).


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov