From: gaynet@gallifrey.kent.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.gaynet
Subject: GayNet Digest Volume 7 Issue 1
Date: 14 Oct 92 16:18:31 GMT
Reply-To: gaynet@gallifrey.kent.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

In this issue:
                                usatoday
                     GayNet Digest Volume 0 Issue 6
                              Maury Povich
                                Info...?
               Sign me-up/Paris is Burning/Red Hot Chills
                 Poetry of D. LePan and gay scientists
            Kent State University Non-discrimination policy
                      Domestic Violence in Gay Men
                                usatoday
                             LGB Musicians
                                 Paglia
                     Women and Logic (this is long)

Please send messages for the entire list to gaynet@GALLIFREY.KENT.edu,
requests to be added or deleted to gaynet-request@GALLIFREY.KENT.EDU, and
personal replies directly to the other person, not the entire list.
Postings to GayNet are public communications.  If you must keep your
privacy, send your messages to gaynet-anonymous@GALLIFREY.KENT.EDU.

For those restricted to 8 characters for addresses, Requests can be sent
to GAYNETR@gallifry.kent.edu, and those who need to send anonymously may
send to GAYNETA@gallifry.kent.edu.  Please note the 8 character spelling of
GALLIFRY  (Gallifrey minus the E before the Y).

If you have problems any of these addresses, please contact me directly at:

perkins@ksuvxa.kent.edu (Internet)
ksuvxa::perkins (DECNET)
perkins@kentvms (BITNET/J-Net)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 10:14:47 -0400
From: info-25@info.umd.edu
Subject: usatoday

hi. today's usatoday's debate topic is on the oregon referendum.
in the pro-column, the head of the support initiative 9 group claims
that the "homosexual community makes a distinction between gay and homosexual."
i didn't really understand what he was getting at, except that i think
homosexual means you keep it to yourself and don't let anyone know, whereas
(he claims) gay means you shove it down people's throats and demand that
they become gay themselves. anyway, my question is, has anyone else
ever heard of this dubious distinction? is it something the far right made up,
or actually something used in the queer community? the whole thing
seemed pretty ridiculous to me.

paula

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 21:00 EST
From: An Anonymous Sender

Date sent:  13-OCT-1992 21:00:00
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
       ^         Daniel Ladue                                    ^
       ^         Internet: ladued@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu      ^
       ^         Bitnet:   ladued@snyplava.bitnet                ^
       ^                                                         ^
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 92 09:59:05 EDT
From: Sherman Boyson <AP006000@BROWNVM.brown.edu>
Subject:      Re: GayNet Digest Volume 0 Issue 6

Is there any difference between this "story" on the frats and some
homophobe who might write a "story" about the different types of faggots out
there.    Mass stereo-types, admitted lack of proof (but that sure didn't
stop the assertions), and overall a disgusting piece of writing.    I don't
think the way to combat bigotry is to counter-attack with the same.

------------------------------

Date: Wednesday, 14 October 92 08:47:15 CST
From: LLRLF%UTXDP.BITNET@utxvm.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Maury Povich

Netters:
Just wanted to remind everyone that Maury Povich has a show today dealing with
Celebrities and Homosexuality that you may want to record on your VCR.  The
show is (I think) a CBS show and you may want to consult your local listings
for the time and channel.

Richard Foster
UT Austin

------------------------------

Date: 14 Oct 1992 01:56:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Info...?
Mime-Version: 1.0
From: An Anonymous Sender

For the 'laga@wpi.WPI.edu' address I noticed...

Without sounding ignorant, what does WPI stand for, and where is it located?

My school has no lesbain/gay support group or anything of the like, and I am
interested in finding what possibilities lie outside of my campus.
Some information would be sincerely appreciated. THANX!

------------------------------

Date: 13 Oct 1992 11:46:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: G_SAENZ@ACAD.FANDM.EDU
Subject: Sign me-up/Paris is Burning/Red Hot Chills
Organization: Franklin and Marshall College
Mime-Version: 1.0

Dear gaynet'
Sign me up! I am the President of The Franklin and Marshall Gay, Lesbian and
bisexual student alliance and would love to get in touch with anyone int the
area (Millersville, Dickenson, Gettysburg, Susquehanna, Bryn Marh etc...)  If
you're out there please cantact me.  My email account is G_SAENZ@FANDM.ACAD.EDU

About the person who said that Paris is burning was made by someone straight
that is wrong.  Livingston is a lesbian.  It was in Entertainment weekly two
months before the movie was realeased in Los Angeles.

To all of those who are wondering about Anthony of the Chilie Peppers according
to my brothers best friend (former publisist for The RHCP's) he appearently
likes young women (17 year olds) and she has never seen him with a man in more
than a fraternal way.

That's all I know!  Good to be on the Net!

------------------------------

From: Piotr Zembrowski <zembrows@vela.astro.utoronto.ca>
Subject: Poetry of D. LePan and gay scientists
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 14:58:54 EDT

Hi! Greetings from Toronto!

   I would like to call your attention to the poetry of Douglas LePan
--- Toronto-born (in 1914) Canadian poet, professor, and diplomat. His
works include poetry and fiction. Some titles: "The Wounded Prince",
"The Net and the Sword", "The Deserter", "Something Still to Find",
and "Weathering It". In 1989 he published a collection of love poems
addressed to a young man, "Far Voyages". I have also seen his essay
about gay and lesbian literature in Toronto's gay/lesbian magazine
"Xtra". I don't know whether he is gay, and if so, whether he is open
about it. (I can only guess.) However, if he is, he certainly deserves
a place on the list of 'our' celebrities.


Chrysostom

Golden mouth. The name of the honey-tongued
saint who was driven out into exile.

Golden mouth. Said of a French poet
of the high Middle Ages as he lay sleeping.

Golden mouth to golden mouth. Our mouths
as they searched out each other.

By putting your lips to mine,
you have brought me back from the drowse of exile,

and opened my lips, the lips of a poet,
to sing -- and to show forth your praise.

                    Douglas LePan, "Far Voyages".


And another thing: I didn't notice on the list of the openly
gay/lesbian/bisexual celebrities any scientists (well, I mean physical
sciences). Are there no gay physicists, chemists, astronomers? Or
perhaps it's because they aren't so famous as Elton John? Does anybody
of you know about living or deceased gay physicists, astronomers,
chemists, mathematicians etc.? (I remember Alan Turing being mentioned
on the Net.) Any Nobel Prize winners?

And, by the way, am I the only astronomer on the Net?

Cheers,

       Piotr

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 92 10:35:41 EDT
From: Rodney Timbrook <RTIMBROO@Kentvm.Kent.edu>
Subject:      Kent State University Non-discrimination policy

The reference to non-discriminatory policy against persons because of
sexual orientation is summarized under the "Equal Opportunity" paragraph,
but references to this policy occur throughout the Rules and Regulations
of the University.

                           Equal Opportunity

In academic and student programs, it is the policy of this University
that there shall be not unlawful discrimination against any student or
applicant for admission as a student because of race, color, religion,
age, sex, national origin, sexual orientation, handicap, or identity as
a disabled veteran or veteran of the Vietnam era.  This policy shall
apply to, but not necessarily be limited to, the following:  recruiting,
admission, access to programs, financial aid, and social, recreational,
and health programs.  This policy shall be applicable to all campuses
and units of the University.  This policy also shall apply with
reference to discrimination on the basis of age insofar as required by
law.



Later in the policies, the University defines "Harrassment" as any
behavior, verbal and/or physical, that denounces or victimizes any
person(s) on the basis of race, color, gender, sexual orientation,
national origin, handicap, or identity as a disabled veteran or veteran
of the Vietnam era which:
1.  Involves a stated or implicit threat to the student's academic or
employment status;
2.  Has the purpose of effect of interfering with the student's academic
or work performance; and/or
3.  Creates an intimidating or offensive academic, living, or working
environment.


Currently, there is underway an attempt by the President of the University,
Carol Cartright, to either change the DOD policy or remove the ROTC program
from the campus since the DOD policy and the ROTC program excludes
"homosexuals" from their organizations.  Kent State has been relatively
gay-positive in my experience (compared to my experience with Bowling
Green State University, BG, OH--"God's country and home of many
fundies).

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Oct 1992 8:55:27 -0600 (MDT)
From: TRHODUS@ATHENA.CAIR.DU.EDU
Subject: Domestic Violence in Gay Men

	I am in the process of arriving at a dissertation question
dealing with domestic violence (DV) in the gay community as it relates to men.
 There has been very little research done in the area and very little published
literature and I am in need of your help.
	About me - I am a PsyD student at the University of Denver and a
Clinical Supervisor for the Peer Support Program at the Gay & Lesbian
Community Center of Colorado with my research supervisor Paul Block, PhD.  My
BitNet address at DU is  trhodus@cair.du.edu
	One of the only books on the topic that I am aware of is The_Men_Who
Beat_the_Men_They_Love by Island and Lettlier, for which I co-authored the
Forward with Lenore Walker.  I have heard rumors that there is research
currently in progress, however, I do not have specifics.
	I have compiled a list of information which would be helpful to me.  I
would appreciate you input to any or all of these questions:
	A.  Who are the individuals in your city with a leading role in
	    the DV movement in the gay community?
	B.  What services do you know about in your area and how might I get in
	    contact with them?
	C.  Do you know of any existing literature on DV specifically
            concerning gay men.
	D.  What questions do you believe to be relevant for prevention
	    and treatment of DV in our community?
	E.  What are your opinions about the treatment issues on DV?

iated.
	Thanks for your time.    Tom Rhodus

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 10:56:44 -0400
From: info-25@info.umd.edu
Subject: usatoday

REPRINTED WITHOUT PERMISSION FROM USA TODAY

DECISIONLINE: Issues & Debate
USA TODAY Update
Oct. 14, 1992
Source: USA TODAY:Gannett National Information Network

TODAY'S DEBATE - GAY RIGHTS:

USA TODAY'S OPINION:

   In Oregon, it could soon be open season on gays and lesbians.
An ugly climate is building over a Nov. 3 ballot measure that
would amend the state constitution to remove civil rights
protections from gays and declare homosexuality "abnormal, wrong,
unnatural and perverse." Colorado; Portland, Maine; and Tampa also
have anti-gay measures on next month's ballots, but none goes as
far as Oregon's Measure 9. Its sponsor, a group called the Oregon
Citizens Alliance, admits the measure would let employers
discriminate against gays and permit landlords to evict gays.
Further, it would require public schools to equate homosexuality
with sadism, masochism and pedophilia. This proposition should
anger anyone who considers individual rights sacrosanct. It is an
outrageous attempt by one group to impose its moral standards on
another and has no rightful place in law. Sexual practices between
consenting adults are a personal matter that government has no
business regulating or punishing. The Oregon group's attempt to
equate homosexuality with criminal sexual behavior just won't
wash. For instance, studies of child molesters show the
overwhelming majority are not homosexuals. Family members are the
most common culprits. The Oregon group has already made
Springfield, Ore., the first city to include anti-gay language in
its charter, a move that resulted in an upsurge of harassment
against homosexuals. Gay leaders fear that if the state measure
passes, gay-bashing will rise statewide. Already, vandals have
broken into offices of a group fighting the initiative. And gay
leaders blame such incidents as the grisly Sept. 26 firebombing
murder of a gay man and a lesbian on the climate set by the
initiative. In reply, pink triangles like Hitler used to label
homosexuals were painted on the doors of Measure 9 supporters.
Voters should reject this measure. Hate and intolerance are not
something that should be practiced or preached.


OTHER VIEW:

LON T. MABON, chairman of the "No Special Rights" Committee, based
in Wilsonville, Ore.: In the homosexual community itself, a
distinction is made between "homosexual" and "gay." To be
homosexual is to simply want tolerance and privacy. To be gay
represents a new militancy for different political goals. By and
large, the homosexual community's old political goals have been
obtained. Most people, including us, are willing to extend
tolerance and privacy to those whose behaviors we don't agree
with. The new agenda wants to force homosexuality and other
"sexual minorities" upon society as good and normal. They want
these behaviors recognized equal to race, gender, national origin
and religion. Opposition to these behaviors would be classified as
legal discrimination and bigotry, punishable by law. This militant
agenda is clearly seen in "Daddy's Roommate" and "Heather Has Two
Mommies," two books geared to elementary-age children ("Daddy's
Roommate" was written for 2- to 5-year-olds). Both present sodomy
and lesbianism as normal alternative lifestyles. In Portland,
Ore., the homosexual community and the city council passed an
unprecedented social engineering program, "The Portland Future
Focus," that makes homosexuality equal to race, gender and
national origin. It implements a "revised affirmative action plan"
with hiring guidelines which affect business relationships, job
promotions, performance evaluations, all based on acceptance of
"diversity." This "cultural diversity" defines homosexuality as a
legitimate minority and calls for revising school curricula to
increase understanding and appreciation for "diversity."
Homosexuality is wrong behavior. It is not a minority. ... It
should not be taught to our kids as good and normal.

------------------------------

Date: 13 Oct 1992 21:16:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: SLOMOWR@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
Subject: LGB Musicians
Mime-Version: 1.0

Her
e e s the is the list that I have been prominsing tou upload for a
 while. This
information is based on interviews and maagazines that I read.  If I
oerverlooked oanyone , please let me know.
4 Non Blondes
Adult Children of Hete{osexuals
joey arias
Army of Loves
a
Balls
Bikini Kill
Boy George
roBronski Beat
Communards
Consolidates
Cultruure Club
Deidra and th e Doomed
Drance
Erasure
Frankie Goes To Hollywood
heavy Cream
Her Majesty andthe abBaby
Jane's Addix

ction
Jesus Loe eeves You
Elton John
k.kd. lang
Kithtchens of Distinction
L7
Lucy Stoners
Mrs. Joenes
Mudwommin
My Life Wtihith the trhi thrill kill Kult
Nervous Gender
Pet Shop Boys
Pop's Cool Love
Phranc
Presents of Mind
Queen
Toshi Reagons
Romanovsky @ & Phillips
The Souts
Sister Double Happiness
jimmy Sommerville
Tribe 8
Two Nice Girls
Village People
Voice Farms
who
Mar Alarc Almond / Soft Cell
Disapperaar Fear

If you haveany a any addidtinspoins ns, please emai l me at
 slomowr@ctravax.vanderbilt.edu

-= RoNaLd =-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 11:59 EDT
From: "J.J. Kwashnak" <JKWASHNA@PEARL.TUFTS.EDU>
Subject: Paglia

Camille Paglia recently wrote the end piece article in the Advocate
(the issue before the 25th anniversary I believe) in which she described
herself as being an out lesbian long before Stonewall.

For what it's worth.

JJ

------------------------------

Date: 13 Oct 1992 23:50:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: romickle@vaxsar.vassar.edu
Subject: Women and Logic (this is long)

An anonymous sender writes:
>As for logic being logic.  I for one disagree.  I have had numerous
>conversations with women where I explained something in a "logical" manner
>that they found to be completely illogical.  And, I have had women explain
>to me "logically" a subject that I found completely illogical.  However,
>the men understood my logic and the other women understood their logic.  So
>we both ended up at the same conclusion using different "logical" steps.
>Is this conclusive as a scientific study, no, but it may illustrate that
>the method or pattern of thinking may be diffrent between the sexes.  MAY
>BE.  I cannot emphisize that qualifier enough.  I think that this is more
>methodology than establishment.

It is funny that in this entire debate, no one has brought up (as far as I
can remember)  Carol Gilligan's landmark book _In a Different Voice_.
(Maybe it isn't as 'landmark' as I'd like to think it is.  At any rate, it
should be.)  In her book, Gilligan argues that as a result of
socialization, women conceptualize the world differently and that this
different conceptualization precipitates a different way of reasoning.  One
of the grounds she tests is morality and uses abortion as the example.
(It's been some time since I've read the book, so somebody correct me if
I'm wrong on a point or two.)

She argues and "proves" (=small sample size, a limitation of qualitative
research) that a women weighs the decision to  abort through the lens of
human costs: how will this issue hurt people around her, what will the cost
be to the baby/fetus,  etc.  This thinking Gilligan describes as
contextual, taking into account the *context* in which the decision is put,
taking into account the *ties* this decision has to other people in the
woman's life--what is the human cost.  Again, abortion is the example;
Gilligan extends this notion to every decision a woman makes.

Men, Gilligan argues, are victims (my word) to rationalization, to
"legalistic" thinking.  They see the world in abstract form and are apt to
take a situation out of context (out of human ties).  Men, for example,
often make decisions in the same way they would play an athletic game:
issues of what is "fair" and what is "just" predominate and if the decision
is "by the rules"--human costs are not calculated.  Men would view the
decision to abort not in terms of who gets hurt, but in terms of legal
rights.  Again, Gilligan extends this notion to all decisions men make.
Example: the oft repeated notion that science is not responsible for what
happens with the results of an experiment; that's for the policy makers to
decide.

The relevance to the debate on feminist scientific method is this:  can the
different reasoning methods effect the execution of the scientific method?
I argue that it can.  Brian is quite correct in pointing out that a
person's background informs what research that person does and what that
person looks for.  I would beg to differ, however, to conclude that
differing persons studying the same thing would come to the same end.  In
the end, it is a question of conception, execution, and analysis which are
all subject to a person's values.

Let's get back to Gilligan.  Gilligan also argues that it it is the tension
between a masculinist, legalistic, rationalized thinking that dominates
American society and the feminine socialization of contextual,
you-must-always-think-of-others thinking that provides the moral dilemma of
abortion for women.  Because they must adjust thier thinking to operate on
both planes, the decision is quite confusing.  Masculinist thinking is
dualistic, either-or thinking and leaves no room for thinking on things as
on a continuum.  Femininist thinking looks to preserving ties and doesn't
so easily dismiss one thing because the other thing happens to be true.

This tension, I think, provides fodder for a "feminization" of the
scientific method.  Look at the "masculinist" conception of the Method:
state a null hypothesis, *prove* that null hypothesis to be false, and if
proven false, the hypothesis must be true.  That would work perfectly if
all science were value-free; but it isn't.  We've got "scientific" studies
of mallard duck which conclude that their mating pratices (where a female
duck is attacked by a swarm of male ducks, of which the strongest duck who
'conquers' her get to complete the mating process) are a basis for a
rationalization of rape behavior in human males. What would be the
interpretation of a woman? We get "scientific" studies that prove the
superiority of white people and the inferiority of blacks. How would a
black person executed such a study? Values permeate every step of the
analytical process: from conception, to execution (like what data you pick
out and what data you choose to ignore), to analysis (what you *think* the
data is saying).  All feminist are saying is that they acknowledge their
biases in executing research.  They acknowledge, as Brian acknowledges,
that women bring their backgrounds to their work which allows them to see
things that men would overlook.   It would be a mistake to think that women
don't execute science, or that gays or blacks don't execute science
differently than men, or strayts or white people do because of their
backgrounds and values.  To put it in Gilligan's terms, men view science as
some abstract, rational, objective methodology;  (feminist) women refuse to
put science out of its human (and fallable) context.

The question has now become can science be objective or "value-free."  The
example "Prove that we can't objectively know 2+2=4"  often comes up. It's
a fact, and we know it to be uncontestably true.  But 2+2=4 is not the
scientific method--what hypothesis is tested?  Science is not objective, it
is not value- free.  But this is yet another discussion....
_________________________________________________________________________
R. Derrrick Mickle   __________  QUOTE OF THE DAY:
romickle@vassar.edu  \        /  "I put my right foot in, I take my right
vox: 914-451-2464     \      / foot out; I put my right foot in and I
        BLACK          \    / shake it all about; I do the hokey-pokey
         GAY            \  /  and I turn my self around.  That's what I'm
       & PROUD           \/  all about."  --Ross Perot on his candidacy?
_________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

End of GayNet Digest
********************
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU