HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: soc1070                         
Subject: Re: Companies and Engines
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Minnesota CIS
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:51:00 GMT

In article <1iie7lINN12i@ub.d.umn.edu>, cbusch@ub.d.umn.edu (Chris) writes...
>How many companies are in the sale of model rockets. Apparently, I only
>found Estes out of Colorado (?)  Also the biggest engine that I have
>ever found (sold) were "D"s, however, I have seen mention to E,F, and
>even G sizes.  How does get a hold of them?  Illegal in Minnesota?
>	Also, I noticed in Popular Mechanics engine plans for sale with
>50lbs of thrust(!), what is the deal with those?
> 
>Thanx

As the resident minnesota poster here on the net, I feel I can answer some
of your questions.

1) Companies
There are a number of companies that make both high power and model
rockets that you can get here (at least, in the twin cities). AeroTech,
sort of the Estes of high power, except the quality & service is better
(IMHO), LOC/Precision, ISP (parent of AeroTech) are on shelves of
a few of the better stores in town. Those companies all make E-H, and
a few I-J kits.

2)Minnesota
Minnesota (suprisingly) is pretty loose with the rocket laws. Mostly
just what the FAA sets. We have flown through J's at our sport flys.

Those same hobby stores will typically have (now) through G's on the
the shelf (and usually only AeroTech).

I don't think there are ant other clubs in minnesota, except for us 
and the new tripoli prefect (we have many co-launches with the tripoli
guys, launch land is at a premium here so we share, makes doing the
waiver thing easier, too)

Speaking of waivers, you'll need FAA permission to fly anything over
16 ounces model weight or a low G motor ANYWHERE in minnesota. We
looked at maps and there is no uncontrolled airspace within the state.

If you want more infor on the clubs, Central Minnesota Assn. of 
Rocketry, or the tripoli group (which I don't think has picked a
name yet), send me a note and I'll get all the info to you.

See the manufacturers list at the archive (sunsite.unc.edu pub/
archives/rec.models.rockets, I think thats the dir) for a list of
all the related manufacturers. THE FAQ at the same sight has more
on high power and a few manufacturers, too.

------
Tim Harincar				A skunk is better company than
soc1070@vx.cis.umn.edu			someone who prides themselves on
 					being frank. -Lazerus Long	
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: hot glue
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 23:28:21 GMT

Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu (Roger Wilfong) writes:
: In Article <1i9pknINNguh@transfer.stratus.com> "cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)" says:
: > 
: > > That's because NAR trustees don't build them very often.  
: > > Helps with your batting average.
: > 
: > The secret is to let your primer coats season for at least 9 months.
: > -- 
: > 
: Is that between coats, or after the last one.  I have a Saturn V that's been
: sitting in the corner of the bench for about a year with just a primer coat.
: Is it time for the second coat, or should I just skip to the coat of white?

Have you flown the bird yet? If not, it is not time for the second primer
coat.

Bill
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Black Brant Antennea (was Hot Glue)
Date: 5 Jan 93 18:32:56 GMT
Reply-To: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd.

In article <1993Jan4.164141@primerd.Prime.COM> j.cook@primerd.prime.com (C. James Cook) writes:
>jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty) writes:
>
>...<Black Brant building suggestions deleted...
>
>> I am just about to start building it [another], so I'll try your suggestions 
>
>On the other hand, you could just do what I did: Fly it with the coupling
>containing the antenna for the first flight to prove you can do it, so to
>speak.  Don't include it in flights after that.  It requires connecting
>the parachute / shock cord with a snap swivel so you can remove the 
>coupler from between the body tube and the nose cone, but that's it.

I think a lot of folks share your opinion. The launch session where
mine CATO'd saw three BB's flying, but mine was the only one that had
antennae on it! (They did have the coupling, thought, to maintain the
scale length)

BTW, the CATO was very kind to the rocket cosmetically. Even though it
was completely toasted inside, from the oustside you couldn't tell (other
than a few stress fractures in the paint around the fins) that anything
was wrong with it. I cleaned it up, fixed the broken antenna and presented 
it to my brother-in-law who is from Canada. He is the production mangager
for the San Francisco Symphony and it now resides in his office. When
ever anyone complains about accomodations when going on the road he points
to the model and growls "THAT'S how were're going on the NEXT tour!"

- Jack

=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
||          " 'Tis a coward I am, but I'll hold your coat"                 ||
||                  - Barry Fitzgerald, _How Green Was My Valley_          ||
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu  (Roger Wilfong)
Subject: Re: Hello and finless tec
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 93 06:57:00 EST
Organization: UofM Hospitals
X-Newsreader: FTPNuz (DOS) v1.0

In Article <Bztyzt.29M@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> "ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)" says:
> 
> OK.. so what was the story behind the real Westar? Was it a rocket
> launched off a spinning pad, or was it a satellite released off of 
> spinning platform? Why did it fail?
> 
 
It was a communication satellite launched from the shuttle payload bay.  It 
was attached to a rocket motor that was supposed to boost it from LEO to its 
station in geosynchronous orbit.
 
The payload pallet it rests on in the shuttle bay is also a spin table.  
Before release from the shuttle, the satellite is spun up.  A set of springs 
pushes it off the spin table and into space.  There is a switch on the side 
of the Westar that is supposed to be tripped as it leaves the shuttle.  This 
switch starts the sequencer that ends with the satellite reaching GSO.  For 
some reason, the switch did not trip and the Westar was stranded in LEO.  
 
The shuttle crew made an attempt to 'swat' the switch with a binder cover 
attached to the end of the shuttle arm, but were unsuccessful.  The Westar 
was recovered in a later shuttle flight, returned to Earth, refurbished and 
relaunched.
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu  (Roger Wilfong)
Subject: Re: hot glue
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 93 14:41:00 EST
Organization: UofM Hospitals
X-Newsreader: FTPNuz (DOS) v1.0

In Article <1i9pknINNguh@transfer.stratus.com> "cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)" says:
> In article <1992Dec31.224302.1852@primerd.prime.com>, J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM (Jim Cook) writes:
> > In article <1hvn2iINN417@transfer.stratus.com> det@bigbootay.sw.stratus.com
> > (David Toland) writes:
> 
> > >I believe him!  His models don't come apart very often, ...
> 
> > That's because NAR trustees don't build them very often.  
> > Helps with your batting average.
> 
> The secret is to let your primer coats season for at least 9 months.
> -- 
> 
Is that between coats, or after the last one.  I have a Saturn V that's been
sitting in the corner of the bench for about a year with just a primer coat.
Is it time for the second coat, or should I just skip to the coat of white?
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Livermore Launches for January
Date: 4 Jan 93 07:26:46 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd., Livermore, CA

The Livermore Kiwanis Youth Program Model Rocket Club has the following
events scheduled for January:

* A "Name the Club" contest so that we all don't have to take a 
	deep breath after reciting the name as it currently stands :^)

* A "Make Up" launch to compensate for not having one in December due
	to the holidays (lipstick and eyebrow pencil optional).

* A regular monthly meeting.

* The regular monthly launch on the Saturday following the meeting.

Details as follows:

The "Name the Club" contest is really two contests. One is to come up
with a name that reflects both the city of Livermore and the NAR (since
we will be NAR sanctioned). The other is to come up with a club logo.
The two are completely separate so that the winning logo may have to
be modified to fit the winning name. Hobby Haven (one of our local
sponsors) is donating two large kits as prizes for each contest. You
must be a club member to enter.

The first launch will be held on Saturday, January 9 from 8:30 AM
'til noon. Location is Gardella Greens behind city hall. To get there
travel down Pacific Ave until it dead ends and look to your right. The
launch site is visible from there.

The meeting  will be on Thursday, January 21 starting at 7:00 PM. 
The location is still TBD. We are still searching for a permanent 
meeting location since the ones we've used so far (the City Council
chambers and a local church school) are available on a spare time
only basis, of which there isn't much lately.

The second launch will be on the Saturday following the meeting,
January 23. Same time and place as above.

For more info, contact Sgt. Mark Weiss at the Livermore Police Dept,
(510) 373-5303 during the day; or call me at the number in my .sig
(e-mail works too :^)

- Jack

=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
||          " 'Tis a coward I am, but I'll hold your coat"                 ||
||                  - Barry Fitzgerald, _How Green Was My Valley_          ||
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu  (Roger Wilfong)
Subject: Re: Hello and finless tec
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 05:45:00 EST
Organization: UofM Hospitals
X-Newsreader: FTPNuz (DOS) v1.0

In Article <C0D7Dv.H9G@zoo.toronto.edu> "henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)" says:
> In article <19930104075753.Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu> Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu  (Roger Wilfong) writes:
> 
> The Westar in question worked fine up to and including perigee motor
> ignition and the beginnings of the burn.  What happened then is slightly
> unclear, but the most probable sequence is massive structural failure of
> the motor nozzle, resulting in a sharp pressure drop in the motor that
> extinguished the propellant.  This happened to two different satellites
> (using the same brand of perigee motor) at the same time, the other one
> being a Palapa owned by Indonesia.  They were eventually maneuvered down
> to a lower orbit for a shuttle mission that retrieved them both.  They
> were refurbished and relaunched (on expendables).
> 
> The one whose sequencer electronics failed was a Leasat, aka Syncom.
> This was a different and rather larger bird, using a "Frisbee" deployment
> method (no spin table).  The switch did trip; the problem was elsewhere.
> It was repaired in orbit by a later shuttle mission, flew its maneuvers
> successfully, and is now in operational service.
You're right, I did have them confused.  It was the Westar that I was 
thinking of for a scale model; however, I was remembering the on orbit 
efforts with the Leasat.
 
Thanks for the correction.
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott)
Subject: Re: Black Brant Antennea (was Hot Glue)
Organization: NEC America, Radio Software Dept
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 23:56:23 GMT

In article <614@rml.UUCP>, jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty) writes:
|> In article <1992Dec31.223348.1687@primerd.prime.com> <J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM> writes:
|> >In article <610@rml.UUCP> jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty) writes:
|> >>I've found hot glue handy for attaching little trim pieces like the 
|> >>toothpick "antennas" on the Black Brant. Gotta do them little guys after 
|> >>every flight :-)
|> >
|> >I understand the problem.  After I built mine, I found the following
|> >suggestion:
|> >Glue a small block of balsa (.25" x .25"?) inside the body tube. Drill a hole
|> >thru the body tube wall and into the balsa block.  Then mount your antenna in
|> >the hole.
|> >
|> > ... stuff deleted ...
|> These are good suggestions, and very timely.
|> 
|> My problem with the antennas (antennae?) coming off was not aero forces
|> but recovery snapback. There was the classic dent in the leading edge
|> of the body tube and the toothpicks were ripped off *up*.
|>
|> ... stuff deleted ...

DO NOT USE THE STANDARD 'ESTES' STYLE (SHORT) ELASTIC SHOCK CORD!!
Let me repeat.....
DO NOT USE THE STANDARD 'ESTES' STYLE (SHORT) ELASTIC SHOCK CORD!!

As has been discussed earlier in this group:
   1) Use LONG shock lines (3-4 times the length of the model)
   2) Don't use rubber band material, use sewing elastic or small diameter
      bungee cord (1/4" sewing elastic works great for medium to large
      *model* rockets, i.e., BT-55 body tubes and up); use 50 or 100 pound
      kevlar for small models.
   3) Don't use the Estes style paper shock cord attachment; use Kevlar
      attached to the motor mount (such as Quest models do) or epoxy a
      kevalr or nylon cord loop to the inside of the body tube (in the
      manner of LOC shock line mounts).

I've retro-fitted long 1/4" sewing elastic onto several D-powered model
rockets.  I used LOC-style shock cord attachments and some leftover 300
pound kevlar (I've begun to believe heavily in overkill :-). I also fold 
the long shock cords and loosely wrap a small rubber band around the very 
tip of one end of the folds.  This keeps the long shock cord from getting 
tangled up with the 'chute, but doesn't interfere with deployment.

It works great!  All of these items were tips mentioned in r.m.r by 
HPR and competition people.  The ideas scale down nicely to model rockets.

Gee, this stuff should be in the FAQ :-). (Guess I'd better get busy...).

================================================================================
= Buzz McDermott                Disclaimer: I speak for no one but myself, and =
= buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com                       anyone who listens to anything I   =
= NAR   13559                               have to say deserves whatever they =
= TRA    1785                               get!!                              =
================================================================================
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Estes Cineroc
Date: 4 Jan 1993 16:47:32 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rocket.sw.stratus.com

In article <617@rml.UUCP>, jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty) writes:

> Bob is an avid collector and recently started the "Collectors' Closet"
> column in AmSpam (assuming we ever get a "real" one again :^)

I understand January/February is pretty massive.
-- 

cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com   --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...

Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: rjungcla@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (R. M. Jungclas)
Subject: Re: Estes Vostok
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs - Naperville, IL.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:23:36 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.053945.5509@ennews.eas.asu.edu> elder@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Greg Elder) writes:
>The latest AmSpam has an ad from Acme Rocket Company.  They have an
>old Estes Russian Vostok kit for sale.  I've never seen this before, and
>I don't have an old catalog that shows the rocket.  Can anybody supply
>me with information about this kit (size, appearance, type motors it uses
>(A-C, or D size), etc.)?  Has anyone ever built one of these before?
>Thanks for whatever anybody knows.

The best description of the kit is "scale like" or "pseudo scale" as the
4 strap-on tanks are only "profiled."  That is these tanks are reduced to
"flat surface" which acts as the fins for the model rocket.  The rocket
flies with a single A-c engine and it either BT-60 or BT-55 based.

R. Michael Jungclas                    UUCP:      att!ihlpb!rjungcla 
AT&T Bell Labs - Naperville, IL.       Internet:  rjungcla@ihlpb.att.com

Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: sjs@torque.bae.bellcore.com (Stephen Szymanski)
Subject:  New Estes Products
Reply-To: ricks@berkeley.edu
Organization: Bell Communications Research
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 13:42:16 GMT


This may have been covered already, so sorry if it has, but
has anyone tried out the new Estes launch control or the
rocket(s) it is meant for?  I picked up a Saturn 1B to keep
me busy and noticed the new products.  Also saw the Patriot
on the floor.  Guess the box was too big to put it on the wall! :^)

Can this controller be used with single engines?

Thanks in advance.  Considering the cost, I thought I'd ask.

Steve

-- 
******************************************************************************

Disclaimer:

The opinions expressed herein are solely my own and are not shared by Bellcore
nor any of its owner companies.

******************************************************************************

Steve Szymanski 
Bellcore 				RRC-1E222
444 Hoes Lane				(908)699-5026
Piscataway, NJ  08854			sjs@bae.bellcore.com
From: jsvrc@rc.rit.edu (J A Stephen Viggiano)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Sanding Primer (Was Re: hot glue)
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:49:49 GMT
Organization: RIT Research Corp

>In Article <1i9pknINNguh@transfer.stratus.com> "cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)" says:
 
> The secret is to let your primer coats season for at least 9 months.

To which, in article <19930104154100.Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu>
Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu  (Roger Wilfong) asks:

>Is that between coats, or after the last one.  I have a Saturn V that's been
>sitting in the corner of the bench for about a year with just a primer coat.
>Is it time for the second coat, or should I just skip to the coat of white?

You need to allow the primer to cure *before sanding*. Primer that has
had a chance to thoroughly dry sands much better than primer applied just
the day before. The sand paper gets all loaded up with gooey primer dust,
unless you wet-sand. This is why I try to avoid a whole lot of sanding
between coats of primer.

I think the length of time depends upon the brand of primer you use. I have
always used Krylon, in white, gray (platinum, they call it), and good old
oxide brown. Has anybody compared Krylon to other brands, like Plasti-Kote?
Do they fully cure any faster?

John Viggiano, jsvrc@rc.rit.edu
NAR 25615
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Launch Pad
Date: 11 Jan 1993 17:31:40 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rocket.sw.stratus.com

In article <9JAN199313144493@vill.edu>, 161685732@vill.edu (JOE PRYSZLAK) writes:
> Here's an odd request.  I have an old Centuri Power Pad launcher I still
> use.  I'm looking for the plastic piece that allows me to tilt the
> launch rod, and I'm also looking for the angled blast deflector.  Anyone
> know where I can get these.  Anyone have some they might want to sell???

Yes -- I'll send mail.
-- 

cdt@rocket.sw.stratus.com   --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...

Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: elder@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Greg Elder)
Subject: Estes Vostok
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 05:39:45 GMT

The latest AmSpam has an ad from Acme Rocket Company.  They have an
old Estes Russian Vostok kit for sale.  I've never seen this before, and
I don't have an old catalog that shows the rocket.  Can anybody supply
me with information about this kit (size, appearance, type motors it uses
(A-C, or D size), etc.)?  Has anyone ever built one of these before?
Thanks for whatever anybody knows.

--
Greg Elder                                        elder@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Department of Computer Science            or      elder@seine.eas.asu.edu
Arizona State University

Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund Hack)
Subject: Re: Jan _AmSpam_
Organization: Lockheed ESC, Houston
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:16:56 GMT

In article <622@rml.UUCP> jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty) writes:
>In article <4fH5Tn200WB2IMiWQE@andrew.cmu.edu> lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Lawrence Curcio) writes:
>>
>>The DOWNRIGHT IGNORANT looked like it shoulda had a LOX plume comin out
>>the side. WOW!
>[stuff deleted]
>Too bad they didn't have a liftoff shot.

According to CIS, the new HPR mag will have a liftoff shot and should be
arriving "in a few weeks".  I understand that good liftoff shots were
hard to come by, as the spectators were about a mile away from the pad.
-- 
Edmund Hack - Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co. - Houston, TX
hack@aio.jsc.nasa.gov - I speak only for myself, unless blah, blah..
"You know, I think we're all Bozos on this bus."
"Detail Dress Circuits" "Belt: Above A, Below B" "Close B ClothesMode"
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Old Motors
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:26:41 GMT

hrbob@ixstar.ih.att.com (R.E. Wiersbe) writes:
: I discovered a box of old Estes motors stuffed away in the shelves of a hobby
: shop the other day, the kind that came in the diamond shaped boxes. There were
: A3-0T's from 1976, 1/2A6-0's from 1973 (20 years old!), and 1/2A6-4's from 1974.
: 
: The price? $1.40 for the 1/2A's, $2.05 for the A3-0T's. I had to pick some up
: for "old times sake". Does anyone remember when they stopped making these
: motors?

A long time ago. I still have a bunch - and use them, once in a while.
I believe that C.D. also has a fair assortment. They still seem to work
fine - even after all these years.

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: coryc@sequent.com (Cory Carpenter)
Subject: Re: Jan _AmSpam_
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 23:36:18 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.161656.25974@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund Hack) writes:
>According to CIS, the new HPR mag will have a liftoff shot and should be
>arriving "in a few weeks".  I understand that good liftoff shots were
>hard to come by, as the spectators were about a mile away from the pad.

This is true, although it had less to do with the distance than with not
being able to hear a countdown:  The group doing the launch was using
shortwave, and most people had only CB.  I had my camcorder on "lock" when
we saw the first smoke, and in the time it took for the heads to spin up
the Downright Ignorant climbed several hundred feet.  (The video still
looks pretty cool though, especially the separation -- as I recall they
used a K550 for an ejection charge!)

-coryc

-- 
|     >> Disclaimer: I speak for Sequent only in our hardware manuals <<     |
| Cory R. Carpenter, Tech Writer | "Never trust ale from a god-fearing       |
| Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. |  people..."                               |
|  coryc@sequent.com             |        --Quark, Deep Space Nine           |
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets