HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Scoring Targets
Date: 12 Apr 92 21:30:39 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Laboratory, APG, MD.


In article <52973@mimsy.umd.edu> jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:
#Ok, I usually load 10 rounds of a given recipe to test it in a
#particular gun.  This seemed like a reasonable number after I
#read the chapter about this in one of the Lyman reloading
#manuals, it sounded like using more rounds would not gain very
#much "accuracy" in my measurements.  Is this reasonable?  I think
#the article indicated that this was around the 95% reliabilty
#level.

I'm not a supporter of the use of "confidence levels", preferring
instead to directly assess probabilities using information measures.
However, if you make the usual simplifying assumptions (perfect aim,
directional homogeneity of a Gaussian dispersion), then the expected
relative error of the dispersion is 1/sqrt(2*N) where N is the number
of samples (holes).  That's about 22% expected error in the estimate
of dispersion based on the locations of 10 holes.  Some people might
(misleadingly) equate that with a 78% confidence level..  Not 95%.

#Is it to correct to believe that a 1 inch group at 25 yds means a
#2 inch group at 50 yards and a 4 inch group at 100 yds?  I have
#seen this done a lot, but is it correct?

Only if the dispersion is due entirely to aiming (launch direction)
errors.  If, as is probable, projectile ballistics are responsible
for a significant portion of the dispersion, that portion can vary
nonlinearly with distance.  However, in the absence of good
information about this, linear scaling is a reasonable approximation.

For example, consider a hypothetical projectile that traced a
perfectly helical path around its nominal trajectory, at the
distances under consideration.  The hole location would depend on
the "phase" of the helix where it intersects the target, but would
always be the same distance from the nominal aimpoint, and this
distance would not depend on how far away the target was.  Thus
there would be the same dispersion at all target distances.  (I made
this example up, although it should remind you of a discussion not
too long ago in this newsgroup about helical trajectories.  It is
not meant to suggest a realistic projectile flight model, but serves
merely to establish the logical point that dispersion does not
necessarily scale linearly with distance.)
From: nsc!jrr@decwrl.dec.com (Jerry Roe)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Advice on Polar Bear protection requested (no kidding!!!)
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:04:19 GMT
Organization: National Semiconductor, Santa Clara

In article <52549@mimsy.umd.edu> rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:
#
...question about protection from polar bears...
#
#
#   (a) Is *ANY* handgun cartridge useful against polar bears?  (He's
#       thinking of a .454 Casull)

Well, maybe the .454 would work if you stuck it in his ear.  Otherwise
I wouldn't feel safe with ANY handgun cartridge.  Well, maybe just the
.50 BMG.  {:^)

#   (b) Are semi auto rifles appropriate, or does the cold weather 
#       interfere with reliability?

Couldn't say.

#   (c) What calibers and gusn are recommended?

I'd want to have something like a .375 H&H or .416 Rigby.  Really.
Preferably the .416.  The polar bear is about the most dangerous predator
you can come up against, and they don't go down easily.

I suppose if you just didn't have the option to have a long gun with you,
then maybe a .454 Casull or the new .50 AE in a Desert Eagle would be
about the best choice.  I'd still feel under-gunned, personally.


Jerry Roe
jrr@nsc.nsc.com		...!{sun,pyramid,decwrl)!nsc!jrr
From: uk09365@nx03.mik.uky.edu (robert i kesten)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun-Free School Zones and Gun Cases
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:29:22 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

In article <53310@mimsy.umd.edu> gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes:
# 
# In article <53161@mimsy.umd.edu> andy@sail.stanford.edu (Andy Freeman)  
writes:
# #... it "shall be deemed to be a misdemeanor" ... for non-licensees to
# #possess a gun within 1000 ft of a school.
# 
# What is a "licensee"?  I didn't know the federal government issued  
licenses.

The federal government does NOT issue the licenses referred to in the Gun  
Free School Zones Act (despite the fact that it is a federal law).  The  
law requires you to be licensed (to carry a firearm) by your state (or  
city / county) after a determination of your qualifications to carry a  
firearm has been made.

The law does not define what it means by being "qualified" or how that is  
to be determined.  

I don't know if this law has been enforced yet.  I haven't seen any  
prosecutions under it yet in this area.  I SPECULATE that the law is  
intended to serve as a model for state GFSZ laws and to "force" states to  
adopt police issue permit systems; a backdoor approach to get all states  
to implement registration etc.

If you live in a state which does not require a permit to carry a firearm;  
the only way you can carry (in/through) a school zone is unloaded and  
locked away.

RIK
From: jvh@nature.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: capstun shelf-life
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:19:31 GMT


Does anyone know the life of a capstun spray?  I know that the
various mace sprays are no good after a couple years (sometimes
sooner), but does this hold also for the capstun spray?  I see
no expiration date on the capstun dog spray available in CA,
(for dogs only).

Joan V
From: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Indoor range backstops
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:17:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: mimsy.53226
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)

I bought a bullett trap from a company called "Chicago
Bullett Stops" back in 75'. It stayed in our other house
under the addition/crawlspace when my family sold it in
91'. Worked well, never fired .44mag just up to and including
.44 special and .45ACP, I guess it was ok we never hit any
of the neighbors cars :-)
-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.belcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I DONT CARE IF I SOUND CONFUSED, I KNOW WHAT I MEAN !!!
From: vapspgd@prism.gatech.edu (Edward Hefter)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock technical buletin #920403
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:55:44 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


In article <53292@mimsy.umd.edu> rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:
<article mostle deleted>
#Most importantly, the components of the new firing pin safety system are not
#interchangable with the components of the old systam and Glock will always
#strive towards maintaining this feature of interchangability while working to
#ensure future interchangability.

Do you mean it is or isn't interchangable?  It would seem you meant it is
interchangable, but I wanted to be sure.
-- 
                                Edward Hefter
                   Trying To Survive the Ga Tech Experience
                         vapspgd@prism.gatech.edu
From: sisak@pa881a.inland.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Browning .338WM for sale
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:19:49 GMT
Organization: Inland Steel Company, East Chicago, IN

In article <51979@mimsy.umd.edu>, spickett@orion.oac.uci.edu (Steve Pickett) writes:
# Gentlemen,
# 
What makes you think "GENTLEMEN" is appropriate here?

Aren't there any female collectors out there?

Just bein' a bitch,

k
From: infmx!gregm@uunet.UU.NET (Greg Mitchell)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bullet & gasoline truck
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:31:12 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <53057@mimsy.umd.edu> george@cs.purdue.edu (Michael J. George) writes:
#
#make a spark in vapors, look out.  And if I remember right, neither lead nor
#brass will spark on steel, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Well, one evening around dusk I was destroying an old TV set with
my SKS firing Norinco lead core ammo and I definitely was getting
some sort of sparks ( a red glow ) when I would shoot into the area
where the remaining bits of the tube was.  I think the glow was comming
from the metal grid in the tube.


        Greg Mitchell               gregm@informix.com
From: bobd@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: I have a few questions on Browning 9mm
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:03:56 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <53201@mimsy.umd.edu> bobd@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula) writes:
#
#There are far, far too many variations of the High Power to go into
#here. There is a good book on the subject, and were I at home, I could
#list the title, etc. for you. Perhaps I'll follow up again tomorrow with
#the additional information on the book if I remember to check this evening.
#

Following up my earlier post, now I am at home and have located the
aforementioned book. The book is titled "The Browning High Power 
Automatic Pistol" by R. Blake Stevens, published by Collector Grade
Publications of Toronto Canada. My volume was published in 1984 and
goes up through the High Power Mark II. The ISBN number is
0-88935-034-5 (Canada) or 0-85368-659-9 (Great Britain). Mine
is a first edition and I have no idea whether any subsequent editions
have come out. The one I have was given to me as a Christmas present
several years ago and I find myself referring to it with fair
frequency. The book is 273 pages and even goes into the High Power
clones/licensed copies such as the Argentine FM. The book is very
well written and very well illustrated with photos, 
technical drawings, and parts lists.

I would recommend this particular reference to anyone seriously 
interested in the Browning High Power and its' history
(especially a collector).

-- 
==========================================================================
              Disclaimer: These are my views, not the U's
From: paulh@tekcae.cax.tek.com (Paul Hammer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Supressors and floating barrels
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:30:53 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.


Question:  Does a noise supressor work on pistols in
which the barrel moves as part of the action, like
a Glock for instance?  My intuition tells me that
hanging that kind of weight on the barrel is going
to foul up the action.  True or False?

Please email response, and post as well if you like.
I only get occasional access to the news.

-rickf
From: sl3rz@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Polar Bears (how to avoid being eaten)
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:31:13 GMT
Organization: Utah State University

10 gauge, fully automatic, 3 1/2 in mag. with spent uranium slugs

your choice of sights  ie lazer or infrared
From: J.M.Spencer@newcastle.ac.uk (Jonathan Spencer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Scoring Targets
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:46:33 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

ghm@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller) writes:

#hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:

##In article <52677@mimsy.umd.edu> jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:
### ...
###Just for curiousity, is there some reason why groups with larger
###numbers of shots in them are usually bigger?  Is it just that the
###shooter gets tired? 

##  Sampling (statistical) theory says that this will happen even if
##the shooter doesn't get tired.  With the same probability distribution
##of shots (whatever it is, although the bivariate normal is often
##assumed) the chance of getting a "far away" shot is higher when you
##look at (sample) more shots.

#True, but with some guns there is another factor  -  heat.  The average
#hunting rifle is not designed for extended firing, and as the barrel
#heats up and the interaction between barrel and stock changes I'd 
#expect the mean point of impact to shift.  This should not be a large
#effect, but would be enough to enlarge a group.  However, for a hunting
#gun anything over a 3-shot group should be irrelevant.  If a rifle can
#repeatedly produce a good 3-shot group from cold I'd not be too
#worried.

Me too. If you can't kill it with three rounds, it's probably away over
the horizon anyqway!  :-)  But I did a little experiment on this
subject recently. I used my Ruger M77 MkII in .243 Winchester firing
Yugoslavian Priva Partisan 100 grain SP hunting rounds over a distance
of 100 yards. The ambiant temperature was around 5 degrees Celcius.

#From a cold barrel, I fired four rounds achieving a 1.5" group. The
barrel was warm to the touch. I reloaded within a few seconds and fired
another four rounds achieving a group of about 1". The barrel was hot
to the touch, and to hot to grip. I reloaded within a few seconds and
fired another four rounds. Three of the rounds were cloverleafed and
the fourth made a group of less than 1". (I was shooting off a Harris
bipod - marvellous thing). The barrel was now too hot to touch: looking
down the scope, heat haze made it impossible to see the targets.
Anyway, this answered my question of whether the Ruger's point of aim
moved. It didn't. I'm not suggesting that the rifle's performance
improved with the heat, so much as I got into the swing of things.

===========================================================================
#From  : Jonathan M Spencer
Mail  : Computing Lab., University of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, NE1 7RU, England
Phone : +91 222 8229
ARPA  : J.M.Spencer%newcastle.ac.uk@cs.ucl.ac.uk
JANET : J.M.Spencer@uk.ac.newcastle
UUCP  : !uknet!newcastle.ac.uk!J.M.Spencer
===========================================================================
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .357 145 gr. Sivertip
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:04:14 GMT
Organization: gte

In article <52710@mimsy.umd.edu>, baechler@lia.di.epfl.ch (Emmanuel Baechler) writes:
# 
# #Are you allowed to re-load your own bullets?
# #
# #  Do they place the same restrictions on bullets (only) as they do on
# # live rounds?
# 
# Reloading is perfectly legal. In fact I am considering to buy a preogressive
# press for my .357. For self defense I however prefer to stay with commercial
# ammunition.
# 
So, can you import 125 gr JHP/XTP projectiles?  If the import restrictions are
on live ammuniton only, I can get boxes of 100 Hornady 125 grain JHP/XTP for
$7.95 (US) plus shipping - but I'd have to check on export laws, I don't think
there's a problem there.


-- 
It's a wonderful feeling when you voted for the winner, but the time to vote for
the guy who "could win" is past: vote your conscience - Marrou/Lord in 92!
Andrew Ford INTERNET: gtephx!forda@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
            UUCP: !uunet!samsung!romed!asuvax!gtephx!forda
From: grout!scott@uunet.UU.NET (Scott Caldwell)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Guns Laws, Transportation
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:30:59 GMT
Organization: Grout, Beltsville, MD

In article <53083@mimsy.umd.edu> samsung!ulowell!echo.egr.msu.edu!marlow@uunet.UU.NET (Michael J Marlow) writes:
#Keywords: State Laws, Permits, ...
#
#      Does anyone know of a good sources which describe the gun laws as they
#vary from state to state?  Specifically, pistol permits, and regarding transportation
#of pistols in automotive vehicles.  Also, regarding semi-automatic assault rifles
#such as AR-15's ?
#        Any helpfull info would be most appreciated.
#
#       Thanks,
#
#
#       MiKe.

I had some similar questions with regard to interstate transportation for 
target practice etc.. I contacted the NRA in D.C. and got some info right
then and there with the rest in my mailbox within a week. The number is 
202-828-6000. Make sure to ask for the pamphlets on interstate transportation,
and on the states of concern. I dont know if you need to be a member or not
(I am but nobody asked). 

Hope this helps.

scott
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Duplicating factory rounds. was .357 Home Protection Gun Recommendation
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:13:16 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <52661@mimsy.umd.edu>, by forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona):
# In article <52601@mimsy.umd.edu>, bp816@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stuart Krivis) writes:
# # 
# # One thing no one has mentioned...  Don't use handloads for self-
# # defense. They will make you out to be a monster in court if you
# # ever actually have to shoot someone.
# # 
# How so?  In actual fact, the hand loads I use are not as hot as factory
# loads, so how could I be called a monster because I like paying half as
# much for ammunition?  ('Course, we do live in different areas, but I fail
# to see how a handload automatically makes you a murdering monster - even
# if it is hot.  .357 magnum is deadly, period.)
#

Speaking of this, does anyone currently publish a reloading
manual with recipes for duplicating factory loads?  I believe
that the old Speer and Lyman ones did and also indicated which
load they believed would be the most accurate. 
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas More)
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bullet & gasoline truck
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:17:37 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <53195@mimsy.umd.edu>, by infmx!gregm@uunet.UU.NET (Greg Mitchell):
# In article <53071@mimsy.umd.edu> ejohnson@cs.washington.edu (Eric Johnson) writes:
# #In article <53029@mimsy.umd.edu> jca@crash.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) writes:
# ##igniting diesel.  Diesel ignites under compression, not a spark.
# #
# #True, but this makes it even easier to light with a bullet -- fill a 
# #2-liter pop bottle a little with diesel,cap it and shake it around a bit 
# #to get some fumes going, stand back (way back) and shoot it. The compression
# #from the bullet hitting it ought to light it. I've never tried this, but
# #the guy at the local gun shop swears it is the neatest way to have fun plinking.
# 
# Hey, where you when I asked about this a few months back ?  I suggested
# it but people did not think it would really work.  I never tried
# it but now I am all excited about it again.
#

Just for curiousity, why would this work with diesel and not with
gasoline, or, say, lighter fluid?  Or will it?
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas More)
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Revolver Hammer Shrouds...
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:31:17 GMT
Organization: gte

In article <52818@mimsy.umd.edu>, fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson) writes:
# I routinely carry 6 in my super blackhawk and in plain and
# simple terms the hammer cannot reach the firing pin unless
# the hammer block is up. 

OR falls out!  Not an extremely likely event, but given enough time and
wear, everything breaks.  

Trigger safeties were invented to prevent accidental discharge - would you 
go wandering through the woods with a guy toting a cocked gun and depend on 
the trigger safety if he slipped or fell?

Same goes for the revolver.

Safety features are no substitute for intelligent, cautious gun handling.
Failures of safety features are very rare, but the penalty for relying
on a safety feature which does fail can be tremendous.  Unless you are 
going into a definite confrontation where you need all the firepower
you can muster, I'd recommend not carrying any firearm with a round
under the firing pin.

(BTW, does anyone know of any automobile crash tests on hammer blocks?
Seems to me that the forces in a 110MPH collision might just break
something - and you'll have enough problems staying alive in that 
situation without having a bullet rip through you or, worse yet, a 
loved one who is with you.)
-- 
It's a wonderful feeling when you voted for the winner, but the time to vote for
the guy who "could win" is past: vote your conscience - Marrou/Lord in 92!
Andrew Ford INTERNET: gtephx!forda@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
            UUCP: !uunet!samsung!romed!asuvax!gtephx!forda
From: upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch  )
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Revolver Hammer Shrouds...
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:04:47 GMT
Organization: Upchurch Computer Consulting, Orlando FL

n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del Vecchio) writes:

# As a tangent, I would like to say that a nice combonation for carry
# imo would be a stainless Taurus m85C (20 oz, bobbed hammer) loaded
# with the seemingly non-existant PMC tubular hollowpoints.    The vel
# is chronied at ~1350+ fps out of snubbies, and it's a 66 grain 
# "cookie cutter" brass ring that supposedly will cut corks through
# fleshy targets.

Would such a load expand at all? If it didn't then all you have is a
.357 diameter hole all the way through. Practically any non-hollowpoint
.38 special ammo would do the same thing. While actually severing the
tissue might be more effective than shoving it aside, it isn't apparent
to me that this is the case. Does anyone have data on this point.


(If your mail bounces use the address below. My map entry is new.)
Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809
joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982
From: wwarf@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (wayne john warf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: PEN GUN
Date: 12 Apr 92 23:23:32 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <53056@mimsy.umd.edu> sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Terminator) writes:
#In article <53043@mimsy.umd.edu> wwarf@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (wayne john warf) writes:
##In article <53004@mimsy.umd.edu> sybok@m4-035-1.MIT.EDU (The Terminator) writes:
###Where could I get a pen gun?
##
##There was a company making what looked like a "Cross" pen in .22LR a few
##years ago called "Pen-fire." They were selling to Law Enforcement only
##but you see them sometimes in Shotgun News as collector pieces. Pen guns
##are NFA "any other weapons" subject to registration and a $5 transfer tax.
#
#A handgun is not an NFA "any other weapon," so how is handgun defined so
#it doesn't include pen guns?
#

I'm not sure of the specifics, see 27 CFR 179, Code of Federal Regulations;
the source I'm using cites this as the source of the restriction. Every
time I've seen Pen or Cane guns advertised, they have been listed as 
NFA "any other weapons," but I'm not sure how they fit into the 
definition of "any other weapon" in 26 USC 5845e.
-- 
 *  WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu**I speak for me,OK?**sic semper tyrannis    *
 *   NRA LIFE* *NRA Certified Instructor* *Penna. R&PA* *Ind. SR&PA   *
 * Department of Decision & Information Systems, Indiana University   *
 * Bloomington, IN 47405 USA* *Pennsylvania CCW Lic.*Indiana CCW Lic. *