HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ctatum@eng.clemson.edu (charles tatum)
Subject: Re: my favourite part
Reply-To: ctatum@eng.clemson.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Clemson Univ.
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 02:47:52 GMT

I must admit that mine got in second, but you can't blame me for trying.
This group is a monumental creation, much the way our beloved Tolkien
created the monumental universe of the LOTR. (FAQ answer: Lord of the Rings).
My favorite part is when Aragorn lands on the plain below Minas Tirith, and
wields Narsil (old name), "Flame of the West."  The anticipation of the city, as the
black sails are spotted coming up the river, as it turns into dread; the description
of the "King of the West", scion of Elendil and Isildur, the great power of the blade
he brings, the banner that flies above him, made with great care by an elven
princess, and that it bears not merely the White Tree, but the Seven Stars above it,
and with them, the Crown of the West. Such a moving picture it is that I can
barely contain myself.
  Of course, the whole story has so many heart-moving parts that one can barely describe
them all. But then there is also the last part of the first half of The Two Towers when Gandalf
is on his way OUT OF THERE on Shadowfax. The description of Shadowfax, his grace,
speed and strength as he MOVES OUT OF THERE "faster than the wind" is so
compelling, almost ethereal.
---
Charles
----
+--------------+----------------------------------------+
|  The Wizard  |  email: ctatum@eng.clemson.edu         |
+-------------------------------------------------------+      
| Charles Tatum, Jr.   | My opinions are my own.
+----------------------+


Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: xexeo@dxcern.cern.ch (Geraldo Xexeo)
Subject: Re: Re:Tom Bombadil
Organization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:09:30 GMT

Tom is Valar, as far as I am informed.I will try to check the
information at home.

      Jerry
-- 
Geraldo Xexeo  | xexeo@dxcern.cern.ch        | In Virtual Reality: MindWeb 
CERN-PPE Div   | xexeo@rio.cos.ufrj.br (*)   | (*) New Brazilian e-address
1211 Geneva 23 | bt268@cleveland.freenet.edu | after December 22.
Switzerland    | gxexeo@cernvm.bitnet        | 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: woodam@aix.rpi.edu (Matthew G. Woodard)
Subject: Boromir & Bombadil
Keywords: Silmarillion?
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 23:56:15 GMT

Alright, here's my position:

Boromir is not evil, simply misguided. As a man of war, they only way he
could truly see the ring was as a weapon one could use to kill one's ememy.
After all, if he were in a fight without a sword, and his enemy dropped his 
weapon, wouldn't you expect Boromir to try and get to it before his enemy did,
and if succesful use it against said enemy? Throughout the Fellowship's
journey Boromir acted like a superstitious fool. He even went so far as
to say that Lorien was an evil place! In all, I believe he was simply
ignorant. The only way he could see destroying his enemies was through
sheer strength, and the ring was, after all, one of the greatest sources of
strength in Middle Earth.
In the end, though, he should be forgiven. The ring has an effect on any
who have even the slightest desire to wield it, no matter what their
purpose. His actions were not entirely self-induced.

Bombadil is another enigma.  I am under the belief that he was placed in the 
books as an interesting diversion.  I believe that one of the greatest things
about Tolkien's work is that he doesn't try to explain the entire world in
one novel. Many details are left to later works or the readers imagination,
increasing the reader's ability to visualize and identify with the people he
meets between the covers of the book. (A good example of this is the constant
allusions to ancient M.E. history in songs, stories, etc.)

If the people at I.C.E.(tm) (Iron Crown Enterprises) can be trusted when it
comes to accurately describing the people of Middle Earth, Bombadil was a
Maiar, just as was Gandalf, Radgast, Saruman, etc.  This info is found in
I.C.E.'s book: Lords of Middle-Earth Vol. I, The Immortals
This book is a compendium to I.C.E.'s FRP game, M.E.R.P.

							Matt
						( woodam@aix.rpi.edu )

Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: garrett@Ingres.COM (WE'RE ONLY HERE BECAUSE WE'RE NOT ALL HERE)
Subject: History of Middle Earth
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Keywords: 
Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Ingres Product Division
Date: 24 Nov 92 03:02:10 GMT

	I always thought that the history of the second age of
Middle Earth was the most interesting, but I've never seen much written
about it. I know there was plenty of short stories on it, but never a 
complete set. Also, the early third age of middle earth seems to be somewhat
scetchy. 
	I know that the back of the Lord of the Rings gives a quick run
down of the third age, but I would love to see more written on it.
Was there a book written on any of this? I know the Silmarillion deals
mostly with the first age. (BTW, was I the only person who got bored with
this book?)

Garrett@Ingres.com  
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: iba@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Wayne Iba)
Subject: Re: Boromir
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 19:13:50 GMT

mbs@zycor.lgc.com (Matt Shostak) writes:

>I could quibble that Boromir and Denethor must be "lawful" in some sense,
>since they are the rightful rulers of Gondor.  They certainly both believed
>in "law," at least in the sense that it put them in the ruling position.

Forgive me if I've mis-interpreted your point.  I must disagree 
with your statement "they are the rightful rulers of Gondor".  They
were rightfully charged with governing Gondor until the return 
of the king.  I think it is misleading to say they are the "rightful
rulers".

--wayne
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien
From: ctatum@eng.clemson.edu (charles tatum)
Subject: Re: Silmarillion?
Reply-To: ctatum@eng.clemson.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Clemson Univ.
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 03:21:48 GMT

In article 25066@dragon.acadiau.ca, 890554h@dragon.acadiau.ca (Andrew Hoogerwerf) writes:
>I have read the Lord of The Rings as well as the Hobbit, and Farmer Giles
>of Ham. I have never read the Silmarillion because I heard it was quite
>profound. Is it worth a guy ( who it took two times to understand the Lord 
>of The Rings) to read the Silmarillion. Anyway what the hell is it about?
>
>-- 
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Andrew Hoogerwerf               890554@dragon.acadiau.ca
>196 Skyway apt 10
>542-5339

I first read the Silmarillion when I was in the tenth grade. It took me a MONTH of reading
on the bus every day after school to get through it. I loved it then.
I next read the Sil. during my work breaks last Christmas.  Since I am now a sophomore in
college, the reading was much quicker (about a week), and the emotion even more intense.
If you like reading history, that's what this is, pure and beautiful. The telling IS profound,
so keep a pocket dictionary handy. Keep your thumb back in the glossary of the book (if you're
interested in the meanings of the names that aren't given in the text). Fasten your seatbelt,
don't drink any coffee (you'll be trembling enough without it), don't listen to anything that
might distract you (the love story of Beren and Luthien requires INTENSE concentration, but
the reward is staggering).  Most of all, take a break when you feel like your eyes are going
to shut or pop out, but just DON'T EVER GIVE UP ON THE BOOK!!!

---
Charles
----
+--------------+----------------------------------------+
|  The Wizard  |  email: ctatum@eng.clemson.edu         |
+-------------------------------------------------------+      
| Charles Tatum, Jr.   | My opinions are my own.
+----------------------+


Newsgroups: alt.fan.enya
From: UC512052@mizzou1.missouri.edu (David K. Drum)
Subject: Hollywood Heresy
Organization: University of Missouri
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 04:36:13 GMT
X-Posted-From: mizzou1.missouri.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Hi all,
 
I've read with some amount of disinterest the discussion on different
versions of albums, but since I don't actually own any of the CD's (I
pick good roommates) I didn't really pay attention to conclusions.
 
Well, today my roommate went out and bought Shepherd Moons.  I have
listened to this CD at least 100 times, courtesy of my previous roommate.
So I'm sitting in the computer lab sampling in Ebudae into the NeXT.  I
start cleaning up the sample and decide to listen to Book of Days.  And
here, at almost the end of the song, is this extra part, with under-
standable lyrics, and I can just make out 'Far and Away' at the end
of the lyrics.  I feel defiled!
 
Can anyone tell me how I can get an undefiled CD before they all
disappear?  The jacket and liner notes gave no indication of a change.
 
Regards,
 
David
 
At worst I can just sample it in and remove the blasphemous offending
chorus!  God, I love being a computer nerd!
From: kzhang@cisco.com (Kui Zhang)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.enya
Subject: Re: the person behind the music
Date: 23 Nov 1992 20:53:43 GMT
Organization: cisco Systems, Incorporated
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: regal.cisco.com

In article <1992Nov7.150235.8598@pollux.lu.se>, magnus@thep.lu.se (Magnus Olsson) writes:
|> In article <BxAz1x.I3w@kingston.ac.uk> ee_d313@ceres (Babajide Oyabayo) writes:
|> >I've seen Enya on TV a few times. All I can remember is : It's a 'SHE', 
|> >middle-aged and pretty.
|> 
|> Pretty, yes - but middle-aged? I've always thought she looks thirtyish.
|> Of course, that depends on what you mean by middle-aged. Does anybody
|> know her age?
|> 

According to a recent enya faq posted to alt.music.enya, 
her age is 31 + the age of faq -:)


.kui
From: s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (Richard A. Muirden [GA])
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: Symphony Nos. 7 & 12 (was:Re: 10th symphony)
Date: 21 Nov 1992 08:25:08 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au

schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder) writes:

>The 12th, on the other hand, is mostly symphonic action throughout
>(except for the slow 2nd movement).  The 1st movement is extremely
>rousing.  It's be hard not to get stirred up by all that trumpet blaring
>and militaristic drum tapping.  Almost makes one wannna be a member of
>the Proleteriate!

Yes, I want to raise my red banner to Lenin whenever I hear that it's
wonderful stuff that first movement... in fact I think I'll put it
on now :) :) :) now where did my May Day poster go? :)

>  
>As for Mahler and Bruckner...don't have any of their stuff.  Couldn't
>say.

Well if you like the 12th first movement, try Mahler's 5th.. the
Sinopoli on DG is absolutely wonderful!!! That's rousing!

the rest though, where are those depression clincs again? :)


>-- 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Gary L. Schroeder  		|  
>schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov         |        It's a pomaceous life. 
>Brookhaven National Laboratory  | 

-richard

-- 
Richard Muirden, System Administator, RMIT.Aero. Engineering.. Office: 10.12.26
raeram@kittyhawk.aero.rmit.OZ.AU, s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU 'phone: 660-3142
ram@lionet.wesley.OZ.AU, ram@coombs.anu.edu.au - in case you don't like RMIT! :)
---------Hopeless Romantic, Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" ------------
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: cjt1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Charles Ten Brink)
Subject: Re: Dance of the Puppets
Reply-To: cjt1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:28:49 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.070253.22918@nntphost.ciba-geigy.ch> bkruem@ciba-geigy.ch (Michael Krueger) writes:

>    (**) This is presumably a bad translation. "Counter Dance" as in "The
>	 Gadfly" appears to be correct (in German both pieces are named
>	 "Kontratanz", Country Dance would translate to "Volkstanz").
>
I believe that it's the other way around.  "Country dance" was an English
phrase that was adopted by German composers and Teutonized into 
Kontratanz, which has then been back-translated into Counter Dance, or,
more often, Contradance.  But it is my understanding that Country Dance is
the original term, and, in this case, a better descriptor.

This may be a musical version of an urban legend, as, now that I have 
written it down, it sounds altogether too much like the story about
Coca-Cola translating as "bite the wax tadpole" in Chinese.
--Chuck Ten Brink


-- 
D'Angelo Law Library         "The dogmas of the quiet past are
cjt1@midway.uchicago.edu      inadequate to the stormy present. . .
uclcjt1@uchimvs1              We must disenthrall ourselves. . ."
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: vpt@jytko.jyu.fi (V.-P. Tahvanainen)
Subject: Bruckner, Mahler, and DS (was Re: 10th symphony)
Summary: I nevertheless don't like the 7th and 12th
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 12:45:48 GMT

In article <1ecok7INNc61@escargot.xx.rmit.OZ.AU> s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA]) writes:
>bobn@hawkwind.central.Sun.COM (Bob Netherton) writes:
>
[I do hope the names still refer to the actual writers, must be the n+1th
time this comes up.]

>>|> Shostakovich Symphony No. 11 ("1905")
>>|> Leopold Stokowski
>>|> Houston Symphony Orchestra
>>|> Angel CDC-7 47419 2
>
>>Here I would heartily recommend the Haitink again.
>
>Why does noone give the DePriest a look in? I think his 11 is fantastic,
>though his 10 is crap...
>
>
>>Am I the only one here that likes the 7th and 12th ?  Come on, where are
>>the all the Bruckner and Mahler cross-overs ??????
>
Well, I don't know if I'm a cross-over since I like Bruckner and
Mahler at least as much as Shostakovich; perhaps Mahler the most.
(And no, I'm not writing this from the funny farm :-)) Yet I think
DS has 14 other better symphonies (incl. Stepan Razin's execution)
than those two...

>nope, I like the 7 and 12. just played the 12 before. Interesting though the
>notes on my recording of the 12th (Jarvi on DG) says that the 12th is his
>(Shosts) worst symphony. Most prob. because it toes the party line more than
>any other (with possible exception of the 2nd and 3rd). And it is rather
>formal type stuff.... (but dare I say FORMALIST? No! don't confuse me!)
>
Twelfth formal?! What do you mean? I simply think both lack any viable
musical ideas at least in comparison to DS's better work. I recall the
Finnish conductor Paavo Berglund remarking about the 12th that it is
painful to see the places in the score where DS clearly ran out of
ideas... Perhaps he just did not put his heart to a 'party line' work.
>>-- 
>>Bob Netherton                        | You see the signs, they're always there
>>Sun Microsystems                     | But you know you never care
>>Dallas, Tx                           | You are always looking for another reason
>>bob.netherton@central.Sun.COM        | ==== Hawkwind, Paradox
>-- 
>Richard Muirden, System Administator, RMIT.Aero. Engineering.. Office: 10.12.26
>raeram@kittyhawk.aero.rmit.OZ.AU, s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU 'phone: 660-3142
>ram@lionet.wesley.OZ.AU, ram@coombs.anu.edu.au - in case you don't like RMIT! :)
>---------Hopeless Romantic, Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" ------------

Veli-Pekka

Veli-Pekka Tahvanainen, researcher, project MetaPHOR / All opinions are solely
Dept. of Computer Science & Information systems     / mine unless explicitely
University of Jyvaskyla                            / otherwise stated, and
P.O.Box 35, SF-40351  JYVASKYLA, Finland          / subject to change!
vpt@hyeena.jyu.fi, vpt@jytko.jyu.fi


Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: rmc@wang.com (rmc)
Subject: Re: Shostakovich sampler
Organization: Wang Laboratories, Inc.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:25:23 GMT

bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton) writes

>Since this is the second time (as far as I can remember) someone has asked
>for an introduction to Shostakovich, I think it might be a good idea to
>create a sampler tape for this newsgroup.  Everyone can contribute 
>his or her favorite symphony or concerto movement, short piece, etc. 
>and see if one 90 minute cassette can be put together.

I think this is a terrible idea.  Even if it was legal, taking an
excerpt of a Shostakovich symphony does nothing.  They are the best
because they work together so well, not because they have the
catchiest tunes, or the best individual theme development, or even the
best orchestration (though here the quality is really high).  This is
doubly true for the string quartets.  And i'm not sure taking
individual shorter work (one or two of the preludes and fugues for
example) really will give someone an idea of the sound of
Shostakovich's music.  That is heavily involved in the way he handles
voicing during the slow movements of orchestral pieces, and the
handling of recapitulations.

R Mark Chilenskas
Chilenskas@Office.wang.com
From: raeram@kittyhawk.aero.rmit.OZ.AU (Richard A. Muirden)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: Shostakovich sampler
Date: 19 Nov 92 08:07:12 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: kittyhawk.aero.rmit.oz.au

OK, this sounds good to me, and if we're only to have bits and pieces
how about the following:

first 15 mins of 1st mvt, 10th symphony (can't be beaten :) )
""          ""    ""       7th symphony

3rd movement, 8th symphony (cut off before drumproll into 4th movement)

bit of 3rd or 1st movemtn, 5th symphony...

something from the 1st symphony, last movement, the middle-end bit?

1st piano concerto: last movement or 2nd movement bits
2nd piano concerto: 2nd movement or 1st
1st violin concerto: 3rd movement start.... first 5 minutes perhaps

romance from gadfly :)

um something from the bolt, or katerina?

any other ideas?

What if we get some people who *must* have old soviet recordings or
whatever that wouldn't be covered by copyright? Then we could make
a a.f.s library of old eastern bloc recordings :)

just a thought...



--
Richard Muirden, System Administator, RMIT.Aero. Engineering.. Office: 10.12.26
raeram@kittyhawk.aero.rmit.OZ.AU, s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU 'phone: 660-3142
ram@lionet.wesley.OZ.AU, ram@coombs.anu.edu.au - in case you don't like RMIT! :)
---------Hopeless Romantic, Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" ------------
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: rmc@wang.com (rmc)
Subject: Re: Shaking the shostakovich tree.
Organization: Wang Laboratories, Inc.
Distribution: alt
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:21:26 GMT

Discussing possible pieces for a Shostakovich "Best Of" tape to pique
peoples' interest, ns14@crux2.crux2.cit.cornell.edu (Nathan Otto
Siemers) writes:

> 	Third mvmt of 5th symphony.   The beautiful soprano solo in
> Lady Macbeth.  A couple preludes and fugues.  One of the songs in the
> 14th symphony. (Madam!  Look!  You've dropped something!).  And finish
> it with the WHOLE 8th quartet.

Well, if we include the WHOLE 8th quartet, some of the architectural
problems could go away.  My favorite movement is Symphony 15 movement
3 and i would request it NOT be included; it was the specific example
i was thinking of when i noted that Shostakovich's symphonies work
together as a whole and not as exceprts.  I find the movement
excruciatingly beautiful, but without the setup from the
not-quite-as-slow second movement the theme seems too simple.  

There is a really catchy work for two pianos, i think its just titled
"Fantasy", that could be included.  Father and son recorded it
together, with the son taking the fast, showy treble part.  My
favorite song from the 14th is "Three Lilies", but paired with
"Macbeth" this might paint too morbid a picture.  The cello sonata
would be a good choice, especially if one could find a copy of the old
Melodiya recording with DSch handling the piano.  It's short enough
that one could do another whole piece rather than an excerpt.

Building such a tape as a "thought experiment" seems fun.  Building
the real tape would seem somewhat dubious morality wise, although we
can always fall back on the "building potential new customers"
argument fans always seem to rely on for bootlegging.

R Mark Chilenskas
Chilenskas@Office.wang.com

Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: kbibb@maui.qualcomm.com (Ken Bibb)
Subject: Re: Symphony Nos. 7 & 12 (was: Re: 10th symphony)
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 21:24:21 GMT

In <1ekrp4INNenn@escargot.xx.rmit.OZ.AU> s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (Richard A. Muirden [GA]) writes:

>schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder) writes:

>>As for Mahler and Bruckner...don't have any of their stuff.  Couldn't
>>say.

>Well if you like the 12th first movement, try Mahler's 5th.. the
>Sinopoli on DG is absolutely wonderful!!! That's rousing!

>the rest though, where are those depression clincs again? :)

Don't knock Mahler's 7th till you try it ;)  I particularly like the first
and last movements of Levine's recording of it (my fave recording of that
symphony).
--
-- 
Ken                     	"You're right about the moon
jester@crash.cts.com    	 but wrong about the stars"--J. Browne
kbibb@qualcomm.com
From: tho@tik.vtt.fi (Timo Honkela)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: Shostakovich sampler
Date: 21 Nov 92 22:29:36
Organization: Technical Research Centre of Finland, Laboratory for Information
	Processing (VTT/TIK)
	<1992Nov13.145910.20071@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
	<1992Nov18.091006.17854@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>
	<1efhvgINNnqg@escargot.xx.rmit.OZ.AU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tik.vtt.fi
In-reply-to: raeram@kittyhawk.aero.rmit.OZ.AU's message of 19 Nov 92 08:07:12 GMT

We would like to recommend the piano quintet (g minor, opus 57).
It has got the Stalin prize (year 1941) but in spite of that
it is one his most touching pieces. Although the third part -
scherzo - is most famous and it's fun to see it played,
we prefer the heart-taking fourth part, intermezzo. Far from
being light interplay it builds up a sombre climax.
In a good performance the players must cry several gallons
tears or otherwise they don't understand the universe, life
or anything.

The first two movements are serious with a lot of concentrated
silent, beautiful moments. The change from the second to the third
movement is like a sudden jump from a cathedral to an amusement
park. And then, the fourth movement is a jump back. The fifth
movement ends enigmatically consciously without any clear
solution.

The Fitzwilliam quartet with Vladimir Ashkenazy (Decca) plays
the piece with appropriate feeling and understanding. The
recording contains also lamenting Elegy (a theme from
Lady Macbeth). Hilarious Polka (from the ballet Golden Age)
has its first recording. Highly recommendable!

Tapio Vailahti (Vailahti_Tapio_SETEC@smail.relay.nokia.com)
Timo Honkela (tho@tik.vtt.fi)

Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton)
Subject: Re: Symphony Nos. 7 & 12 (was:Re: 10th symphony) 
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 09:13:08 GMT

I almost forgot to mention this.  It's an important piece of Shostakovich
lore and it fits in with my previous comments about the the superhyping
of the 7th symphony in 1942.

Bela Bartok received his commission from Koussevitsky for the Concerto for
Orchestra, his most famous piece and probably his best, at about the same 
time the 7th symphony made its premiere in the US.  It received a great
deal of air time on American radio.  Bartok didn't like it very much and
was really quite tired of hearing it all the time on the radio.
Apparently he was very annoyed at the constant repetition of that 
theme from The Merry Widow in the first movement since he wrote a musical
parody of it into the next-to-last movement of his Concerto for Orchestra.

If you didn't know about it and you know the 7th symphony, listen for it.
It's worth your while.  When I first noticed it I got a good belly laugh
from it.

-- 
Bob Sutton                        Love, most bitterly and fiercely oppresses
bobs@gnu.ai.mit.edu		  those who fight it than those who offer
al876@cleveland.freenet.edu       their servitude.    -- Ovid (Amores)
rsutton@eis.calstate.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich