From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: SR: Holes wanted
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:16:32 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

chem7l@jane.uh.edu (Corbit, Jim) writes:

>Neither system is perfect, but if you change auto-successes to auto-sixes, most
>of the problem with the old system disappears.  With the old system, a very
>good/lucky person could get enough successes to stage a single shot with a 
>pistol up high enough to hurt people in moderate armor.  With the new system,
>this is IMPOSSIBLE.  Single shots CANNOT HURT a person wearing an armored vest.
>I personally dislike systems that make anything impossible.

That depends on the pistol. THe new system for armor is apparently coinciding
with a massive upping of damage codes. I'd have to wait and see if these work
well, as from what I've heard, weapons are getting much tougher in SR II, which
is where the new armor rules are from. Even with the old weapons, the Predator
II fires 6M2 shots. That's not getting ignored, and with a good number of
successes, you may actually take a light wound from it. 
Using autosixes mean that your body armor doesn't help you at all when you
get shot with an SMG burst. Zip, nada, no protection, stage down 8S3 on your
own. Wearing armor is pointless with the autosixes system. 

>If it is a surprise attack as well, there is no way to avoid taking damage.  In 
>the new system, a surprise attack with three rounds of aiming and infinite 
>
successes does NO damage with a handgun, ever.

A suprise attack  with a 4D2 shot vs. armored jacket. Let's see, five autos for
an armored jacket, those most common armor apparel. THat means we need 3 more
successes at target number 4. I don't know how you see this damage as being
unavoidable using the old rules. 

>Lastly, anyone wearing a suit of heavy armor, according to the new system, can
>NEVER be harmed by a PANTHER!!!!  (not to mention a grenade, an HMG firing a 
>three round burst, some missiles and rockets, etc.)  Considering that these
>weapons can turn armored vehicles into swiss cheese, this is VERY powerful body
>armor -- much more powerful than in the old system.

Grenades and the lower power missles don't do anything to armored vehicles.

Hvy armor only has like a 7 for an armor rating, 8 with a helmet. That means
if he gets hit with a panther, he'll need to stage down 2D4. That's pretty
tough as few people have that many dice. 
Yes, they are proof to grenades. Considering that it's heavy ballistic armor,
I don't see a big problem. I've never seen the grenades affect someone in
heavy armor in the old system either. Just too low a power.
An HMG firing a 3 round burst? That's 15d4. So in heavy armor you need to
stage down a 7D4 wound. I wouldn't call this NEVER being harmed.
Missles? 12D8 for an AVM, again 5D8 isn't not being harmed. Yes, they laugh
of the 5M3 and 4M4 missles. Big deal, so does everyone in the old system.

More powerful than the old system? Not by a long shot. People actually die
when hit with a burst of HMG fire. The old system means they take serious
wounds only. The autosix system means armor isn't worth buying.

Axly

********************************************************************************
*   Axly      *  "Is Axly tough? Yes. Talented? Yes. Brave? Oh, certainly.     *
* Red Sword   *   He is also erratic, irresponsible, accident-prone, and a     *
*   Targa     *   constant threat to public safety. The trick is to keep him   *
*             *   pointed in the right direction. "                            *
*             *         -Niki                                                  *
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