HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 13:17:49 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
	<1992Dec17.124531.12093@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>



von@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Von Worley) writes:
> In article <0f=yqFO00VpNATaFlP@andrew.cmu.edu> "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.\
> cmu.edu> writes:
> >rubin@pterodactyl.cis.ohio-state.edu (Daniel Rubin) writes:
> 
> >> Whatever!  A scout is history with a CA in any dogfight situation.  A DD wi\
> ll
> >> most certainly survive a dogfight with a CA if he remembers not to get in
> >> tractor range and is a halfway intelligent dogfighter...
> >Both SC's and DD's survive dogfights with CA's.  Then pivot, then
> >maxwarp.  Not too tricky, the SC has a better chance of survival
> >though...
> 
> Most of the time a SC on CA dogfight will end up with the CA winning, 
> or a mutual.
Ugh.  Sorry, I was very vague.  When I said "the SC has a better
chance of survival though" I meant the SC has a better chance of
surviving than the DD (fighting a CA).  The SC can run faster so
has a better chance of surviving.  I wasn't implying SC's beat up
CA's.

	joe
	Purple haze
	Lamb, Leg Of
From: trown@ecst.csuchico.edu (Nick Trown)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Newbie Server God questions
Date: 15 Dec 92 20:25:19 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: corpse.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <1992Dec15.040828.26538@doug.cae.wisc.edu> chris@inconel.uucp (Christian) writes:
>Hija!
>
>I got the bronco final.server running, yeah! I now have some questions which
>I hope some other server god can answer:
>
>1) I'm on a sun sparc2, and used xtkill to fiddle with rank untill I went past
>admiral- the server died a terrible death. Now it seems, that shared memory is
>not being cleared. Is there a way to wipe it clean w/o rebooting the machine?
>(Neat things started to happen- you'd get in the game, watch some massive
>explosions as fake players gotzapped, and then freeze up.)

Do suns have ipcs and ipcrm?

>
>2) How do you get your server to accept bronco/rsa blessed clients?

Here is where you can get the mods for your server to run RSA.

address:        castlab.engr.wisc.edu (144.92.60.140)
directory:      /pub
file:           rsa.netrek.tar.Z

Nick Trown
Netherworld
Server God of Guzzler
From: rmk@baal.unh.edu (Robert M. Kenney)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: SERVER: ghost.unh.edu returns to service
Date: 12 Dec 1992 01:57:21 GMT
Organization: MIS Service Center, UNH, Durham, NH
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: baal.unh.edu


	As if anybody cares! :-)

	The RSA server on ghost.unh.edu now seems to work properly,
   and should also support the old authorization scheme until the end
   of December(or until somebody abuses it), at which time ghost will
   become purely RSA.




    Modifications for ghost.unh.edu

    1)  No Iggy.

    2)  Three teams, and an independent Organia(that's hardwired
        as inviolate).

    3)  Once t-mode starts, it continues until one of the teams
        is genocided. Everybody on the losing team exiting in a
        huff won't keep their team from being genocided!

    4)  Manufacture rate of ships is tied to number of planets.
        If you die, and some of your planets have been taken,
        you may not be able to come in as quickly. I think this
        (plus mod number 2), will make games go a bit faster.

            (ORIGINALPLANETS/PLANETSLEFT-1) * 2 =
                    seconds to wait before coming in.

    5)  No bombing or dropping armies while cloaked. A minor
	compensation for #2 and #3.






	Now I KNOW nobody will be playing there!!!!!  This is my minor
    contribution to getting away from ALL servers being ALL the same.
    (It gets boring sometimes).


	On the other hand, if nobody plays here, I'll probly change
    it back again!


Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: genie@netcom.com (gene choi)
Subject: Re: Another Clue game, and weeding clue from non-clue
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 07:04:31 GMT


The easiest way of weeding out real "clues" from non-clues
is to have a server dedicated to cluefull games.  In this,
I don't mean an INL server with timer and all, but rather
a normal vanilla server.  So what's the catch?

The server does not allow for the creation of new characters
to the database.  The only person who can enter are those
already in the database.  The database should consist of
people who the server admin thinks is clueful, and not based
on some Captain+ rating at Twink.Server.From.Hell 13.13.13.13.
The server admin manually enters those people interested
in being allowed into the clue server.

Gene
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Tom's* Scheduling Counter-Proposal
Date: 14 Dec 1992 01:35:14 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <Uf9Mo=S00VB00HglUU@andrew.cmu.edu> tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Timothy C. Worsley) writes:
)<Tom's proposal deleted>
)
)	I really wanted to like this proposal, but I didn't.  It has the
)advantage over the current system that it trys to make good games occur.
) However, it marred by the fact that an under-rated or over-rated team
)can be stuck in the wrong bracket all season.  I think that it would
)have sucked for LAR or AA this season.

LAR would have been in the middle bracket, playing 2 middle bracket
teams and 2 top bracket teams; that's really not that bad.  AA were
ranked highly by sjsmith but nobody else; they would have been a middle
team, too.
 -Tom
Xref: sparky rec.games.netrek:11217 news.answers:4675
From: sfd@soda.berkeley.edu (Scott Drellishak)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Date: 16 Dec 1992 21:02:45 GMT
Organization: Metaphor Computer Systems
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <kf=qXJm00YUo043Gxn@andrew.cmu.edu> jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph E. Beck) writes:
)Mike, try reading the post next time.  I said you shoot from just
)outside the *DD'S EFFECTIVE RANGE*.  Note, that since his torps are
)slower than yours, and you turn better, this is fairly close.  So you
)close to just outside where he can hit you, and plaster him.  The DD
)doesn't have the T/P strenge or range, or the phaser power to do much
)about this. 
)Any questions?
)
)	joe
)	Purple haze
)	Lamb, Leg Of

If there was a fixed distance which was a ship's "effective range",
what you say would be true.  Since there's not, it's not.  "effective
range" depends on relative velocity, turning rates, speed being
travelled, etc.  If the scout won't engage (insists on staying out of
kill range), there's no reason why the DD should sit still, or
parallel your course, and swallow torps.  Congratulations, you've just
invented runner-scumming for scouts.

By the way, neither scout torps not destroyer torps can "plaster"
anybody -- they don't do enough damage.  Even a DD can safely det
quite a few scout torps, while he's disengaging and ignoring your
sorry, running ass.
-- 
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Scott Drellishak   sfd@neuromancer.metaphor.com                          |
|                "Spumco ... the Danes call it quality."                   |
\--------------------------------------------------------------------------/
From: jimmyhua@koh-sun13.usc.edu (Jimmy Huang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Date: 15 Dec 1992 23:38:57 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: koh-sun13.usc.edu


So, after reading everybody's posts, My conclusion is, 

The best dofighting ship available is the one that you
know how to fly the best ;).  


For me that happens to be DDs for ogging, CAs for anything
and BBs for planet defense, and space control. 

SCs, If I wasn't lagged, and knew how to take advantage of the
extra maneuverability... etc. and other things, and shooting, 
(I tend to waste fuel), then SCs would be great, but alas, 
no skill.   Err, not enough skill to take advantage of SCs. 


Jimmy
From: leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Date: 20 Dec 92 21:00:27 GMT
Organization: Deep Thirteen, Gizmonics Institute

ZZnew guy writes:
>If there are no good DD dogfighters, then there surely MUST be a reason.

(a) The DD was truly the Ship of Loose, due to its propensity to
etemp, until the fix about May (?) early this year.  So, until that
time nobody with any real clue flew 'em... except maybe Hell
Peacock... so there is even now little chance that a really great
dogfighter will have been raised flying DD's.

(b) There is no substantial disagreement that a good CA or BB will
toast a DD every time.  People who do disagree with this should try
facing Mojo in a BB sometime.  He used to be able to kick MY ass in a
CA, on bronco where the lag advantage was mine.

(c) This leaves bombing and scumming as the main roles DD pilots can
hope to succeed at.  Neither of these is famed for its need for
dogfighting.

-Wreck
From: rsh@cs.bham.ac.uk (Roger S Hoyle)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Most interesting.
Date: 15 Dec 92 12:10:25 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Birmingham University, U.K.

wibble (James Hawtin) writes:
|> Have you heard Psychotron by Megadeth its perfect for netrek!

[non-relevant lines deleted]

|> Computer on-board

|> Not a cyborg
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^ (we can hope.....)

|> Just downright mean
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (well it's not very nice is it?)

|> And forever gunning
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (but you run out of fuel fast.)

|> 			James


Most interesting.


Sir Jasper.
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 07:01:34 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Dogfight Size wars
	<1992Dec20.053935.24026@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 20-Dec-92 Re: Dogfight Size wars
Brian D Hall@lucky.ecn.p (1222)

> 	Until we "cure" the TOTAL runnerscum attitude on fife, I believe the
> mod will stay in place.  It's horrible to see 10 ships all in a circle 
> spraying torps into the center and turn around to run.  Anyone got a better
> idea to "cure" this problem?  We are open for suggestions.


	Form a purdue INL team.  It seems that the second* fastest way to
infuse clue to a server is to have a local INL team.  Witness IAState,
Uwashington, USC, etc.

* The fastest way is to have Terence come to your collage.

ZZnew guy
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: chris@inconel.uucp (Christian)
Subject: XSG!
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 16 Dec 92 03:55:01 CST

Oi vey!

After tracing through xsg with dbx for hours i still have no idea
why the dman thing fails. I tried to run it under Sun`s OLWM,
but tah got me core dumps. SO I tried with twm, and now it throws
up the window, and exits cleanly seconds thereafter. NO core,
no errors. Nada.

Any ideas??? 

I'm on a Sun Sparc 2, SunOS 4.1.1, cc, xsg1.1, rsa-server.

Thanx a bunch,

-Chris
From: jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph E. Beck)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Date: 21 Dec 92 02:56:20 GMT
	<62961@mimsy.umd.edu>
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens) writes:
> ZZnew guy writes:
> >If there are no good DD dogfighters, then there surely MUST be a reason.
> 
> (a) The DD was truly the Ship of Loose, due to its propensity to
> etemp, until the fix about May (?) early this year.  So, until that
> time nobody with any real clue flew 'em... except maybe Hell
> Peacock... so there is even now little chance that a really great
> dogfighter will have been raised flying DD's.
A lot of the people who have been at CMU for a few years used to fly
DD's a lot.  When netrek first came here they were the most common
ship being used.  Then they fell out of favor when the middle mouse
button was discovered.  So there are a lot of people out there who
know how to fly DD's.  But very few of them use them anymore.

> (c) This leaves bombing and scumming as the main roles DD pilots can
> hope to succeed at.  Neither of these is famed for its need for
> dogfighting.
Well, I think bombing goes to the SC.  Why?  Well it's faster and if
later tests confirm the initial one, the SC fights better too.  Sounds
like a better bomber to me.  That leaves scumming, which brings up a
point I made (somewhat jokingly) to anyone who wanted to run a clue
server:  only permit DD's if the person had 2 (ZZ corrected me saying
it should be 1.5) kills (so you couldn't take one at startup.  That's
the only reason I can think of to use a DD, when your team has more
than 2 armies you want carried to  a fairly uncontested planet
quickly.   I don't see any other time to use one...

	joe
	Purple haze
	Lamb, Leg Of
Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 10:14:01 -0500 
From: David Reeve Sward <sward+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Honor & Netrek

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 10-Dec-92 Re: Honor & Netrek by
Huaiqing Wang@db.toronto 
> Hmm, I am usually a very honourable player. I don't kill people who are
> GBed or anything like that. I also feel bad for people who I know are
> lagged (Hi, Grey Elf! :)) and then killing them. :( However, I remember
> one time a while ago, I was on discovery, and Vampyre was base, I was
> the only one ogging him (scummy team, he was at ind as a Fed base and
> carry ALL of their armies.), well, I ogged and killed him in one run
> (with 21), only to later find out he was gbed. I was feeling really
> quilty since I should have known as he got his shield down. :( Well,
> I would like take the chance to apologies again, Doug. That was the
> worst successful ogg I ever felt. :(

Something like this happened in the INL AA at FLEE game: The AA players
were getting awful lag, and at one point they all 'busted.  Since we
were in the heat of the battle, we didn't notice until we killed the
base near Veg with a buttload of armies.  We had also taked a few
planets while they were 'busted.  So, in the name of honor, we gave the
players & armies we killed on 'em, a new base with the armies it had &
made everyone fly back to rom before continuing to let them take the
planets back.  Thanks xsg[*]!

[*] ObFadden

Spectre of FLEE
From: wmperry@indiana.edu (William M. Perry,Lindley Hall 026,855 - 3802,331 - 9062)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Short Shameful Confession
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:52:49 GMT
Reply-To: wmperry@indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington

froud@SunLab40.sx.ac.uk (Froud D D M) writes:
>I've got a Netrek entry at the bottom of the menu brought up by my middle
>button too...
   How about having Shift-Left Button bring up all the netrek servers?
   And Function keys set up for the good ones? :)
   And emacs coming up automatically with my metaserver-client already running in it?

  Naaaaah, I'm not addicted!   

>Barf
>--
>Name: Dom. Species: Spod. Breed: 2nd year. Body: long
>Other features: ugly, boring, funny eye, says 'barf' a lot.

Bill Perry
---
William M. Perry          / 'When you know a thing, to hold that you know it;
wmperry@ucs.indiana.edu  / and when you do not know a thing, to allow that you
Phone: (812) 336 - 3071 / do not know it; this is knowledge.' - Confucius
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig)
Subject: Re: review of popular servers
Organization: Indiana University Astrophysics, Bloomington, IN
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:53:23 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.223813@IASTATE.EDU> isae@IASTATE.EDU (ISU Boy !!!!!) writes:
>PS: I was trying to have iggy do the clue checking, you know. I thought
>    it'd be much easier if other servers want to run such a mod. They won't
>    have to mess with the server code. 
>-Rony
> isae@IASTATE.EDU

That's a good idea - maybe send terminators after people who fail, rather than
arbitrarily nuke them (but don't let them rejoin, of course, or the mod is
wasted).  This would be more fun, and opens the possibility of fun messages
from the terminator to the ALL board...

	Alec
	(Entropy)
From: hadley@thoth.ics.uci.edu (Tedd Hadley)
Subject: Re: SB's as 'bots, in normal servers
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Organization: UC Irvine Department of ICS
Date: 12 Dec 92 22:39:15 GMT

In <62788@mimsy.umd.edu> leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens) writes:

>In article <1992Dec10.172250.61920@cc.usu.edu> sl7sg@cc.usu.edu writes:
>>What if we had the option of
>>bringing sb's in as robots, such as using the codes for the robots at the sb
>>server.  have them set up, so they act like a regular sb, but not to fight

>(a) Hadley does not give his code out.

   I do, but it was generally decided here that giving out borg/robot
   code was not a good thing to do.

>(b) Base play is too important to leave to robots

   True.

>(c) RoboBases would be too easy to ogg for real players

   Hmm, I don't quite agree with that.  While no robot
   could compare to a human in most base tasks, surviving
   an ogg should be its strong point.  (The default setting
   on vlsi's RoboBase makes it a much easier base then
   it could be.  Max difficulty would be 'hm' 0, 'randtorp'
   off (toggle), and 'detall' off (toggle)).

   ^
   But a base that steals every kill within phaser
   reach is not my idea of a good base :)

>(e) Base play is the most fun part of netrek!

   Right!  Have the robots do the boring menial
   labor, not the fun stuff.

   Hmm .. how about RoboScoutBomber?  RoboThirdSpaceScum?

>-Wreck

++
   Tedd Hadley (hadley@uci.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: genie@netcom.com (gene choi)
Subject: Re: New Version of the Berkeley client in Beta Version
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 05:05:18 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.023732.6647@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> markiel@callisto.pas.rochester.edu (Andrew Markiel) writes:
>In article <1fvuo8INNe0h@agate.berkeley.edu> mehlhaff@soda.berkeley.edu (ERic MeHlHaFf) writes:
>>
>>I just added a mess of 'moo' client features to the 'Berkeley' client
>>And did some other stuff to it.  I put 'beta' versions up for ftp on the 
>>OCF. 
>>
>I assume you mean ocf.berkeley.edu, 128.32.184.252. When I try to connect
>using anonymous ftp, after I send my email address as password I get
>
>550 Can't set guest privileges.
>Login failed.
>
>Am I missing something?
>

The OCF is a totally hosed cluster of Apollo's.  Half the time it's
not up.  The other half the time, it's not working properly.

Try again in the few minutes after the machine gets rebooted.  You'll
get some response then.

BTW, just to give you an example of it's slowness, I tried logging
onto console on one of the machines the other day.  It took
4 mins to tell me that my password was incorrect.

Gene
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Scheduling Aglomeration
Date: 14 Dec 1992 01:47:46 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <Ef9YznC00VpHAMjVRG@andrew.cmu.edu> "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
)
)	Therefore, my proposed compromise is this:
)
)	Teams are given a predetermined schedule (1).  In order to make things
)go smoothly, the (bi-)weekly deadlines are a good idea.  All games are
)rated using the best system that we come up with (2).  Additionally, any
)2 teams that want to play a rated game may do so at any time.  They
)simply send the results to the INL statboy, and he plugs it into the
)rating system exactly as if it were a scheduled game.
)	If people want to have a play-offs, they could be run either like the
)NIT, or rated normally, depending on what people want.
)
)(1) I favor Tom's system for this.  Perhaps teams in higher brackets
)could be given a token number of extra starting points (1100 top
)bracket, 1000 middle, 900 bottom, or some such).  After a reasonable
)number of games, points should be distributed right no matter if extras
)are given or not.
)(2) Here, i favor the woof system with a minor modification.  It is
)moderately simple, and takes into account planets, time of genocide, and
)home/away advantage.  If a better system comes up, I'll be happy to back
)it instead, of course.  

Counter-counter: that we view the INL somewhat like an NCAA division;
teams play some number of 'division' games and are ranked at the end
of the season according to their division records; they can play
as many extra-division games as they like; these extra-division games
affect their win/loss records and their ratings in stuff like the
AP poll but not their division standings.

Point-based systems tend to favor good teams that play lots of games
over good teams that don't; with the systems running in parallel, 
a team could win the point title (and brag about it as much as they
liked) and another could win the INL title.  Hell, we could even
have a one-game playoff between the two if they are different.

In other words, I'd support your idea as long as the rankings aren't
used for the playoffs.
 -Tom
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 16:37:08 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: zog is a twink
	<1992Dec10.015635.16506@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 10-Dec-92 Re: zog is a twink
Andrew Markiel@callisto. (1356)

> This is why I always play as Grey Elf: I've
> found that the "big name" effect often encourages the players about
> ready to give up to try a little longer, while the enemies hoping for
> a quick genocide start looking at their watchs to see when they have
> to leave (most other big name players have the same effect). It can
> really be a lot of fun.

> -Grey Elf

	At one point, I remember joining in an LPS (I had checked and seen that
it wan an LPS before I joined.) as Human Target.  4 Admirals -- who I
will not name -- instantly quit from the other team.  Suddenly, there
wasn't anything for me to do, so I quit out and joined in as some other
charcter.  I honestly don't think that I could have stopped a genocide,
but the name was enough.

ZZnew guy
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: von@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Von Worley)
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 12:45:31 GMT

In article <0f=yqFO00VpNATaFlP@andrew.cmu.edu> "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>rubin@pterodactyl.cis.ohio-state.edu (Daniel Rubin) writes:

>> Whatever!  A scout is history with a CA in any dogfight situation.  A DD will
>> most certainly survive a dogfight with a CA if he remembers not to get in
>> tractor range and is a halfway intelligent dogfighter...
>Both SC's and DD's survive dogfights with CA's.  Then pivot, then
>maxwarp.  Not too tricky, the SC has a better chance of survival
>though...

Most of the time a SC on CA dogfight will end up with the CA winning, 
or a mutual.

The proper procedure is:

1. wait until the scout gets into tractor range (until this happens,
   it's not a dogfight.)

2. tractor scout.

3. det and phaser while maxwarping towards scout.

4. pressor if necessary to avoid scout exploding on top of you.

If you can keep the phaser lock, you have killed the scout.

Sandia
-- 
Steve Von Worley
von@cory.berkeley.edu
Computer Science Gradual Student
University of California at Berzerkly 
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek