HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: What is this doing on page 15
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:37:15 GMT

In article <29953@castle.ed.ac.uk> jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) writes:

# In article <1igmjjINN660@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bv652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ilan Uri Woll) writes:

# ~In a previous article, jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) says:

# ~>In article <1i8tuoINNcj8@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bv652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ilan Uri Woll) writes:

# ~>~In a previous article, zmbenhal@netcom.com (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim) says:
# ~>~errs, and so far I'm not sold that Israel is right on this call.  I try to be
# ~>~objective.  Apparently you do not.  The Hamas leaders were guilty of many 
# ~>~violent acts, and it was within Israel's right to deport them.
 
# ~>You claim to be objective and in the next breath you demonstrate that you
# ~>are nothing of the sort - has it not penetrated your skull that the deportees
# ~>have been found guilty of no crime whatsoever? Your presumption of guilt
# ~>exposes your prejudices.

# ~As they were refugees in occupied territory still considered at war
 
# Considered by whom? Does this mean that the Israelis treat Palestinians as
# prisoners of war, allowing access by the Red Cross etc.? I think not.
 
	I am fairly certain that the Red Cross and UN bodies have access
to the territories.  However, even if they do not, why should Israel
make any concessions to the Red Cross?  The Red Cross does not even
recognize Israel, and therefore Israel medical and humanitarian equipment
(including people, military or civilian) is not considered off limits for
aggression.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
From: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: israel's friends
Date: 10 Jan 93 23:52:49 EST
Reply-To: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Distribution: talk
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

To: Adam Shostack

Wrt to the thoughts of what Western opinion elites I am privy to,
in a specific sense that is obviously a private matter. In a more
general sense I've had conversations and private communications
with quite a few people at Harvard, MIT and elsewhere, in and out
of government, which lead me to the conclusion that private
opinion in the U.S. and the West towards Israel is not nearly as
friendly as public opinion. And public opinion is already none
too friendly.

Try this simple experiment. The New York Times is probably the
most influential policy elite newspaper in the the U.S. and the
West (and quite possibly the world). Review all the articles on
Israel on the op-ed page for the last year or two years. Flag all
the pro-Israel articles. Now flag all the pro-Israel articles
that are written by non-Jews. You are going to end up with a very
small set of articles. That large silence should be worrying
Israelis and Diaspora Zionists.

When only people like William Safire and A.M. Rosenthal are
strongly supporting Israel in the U.S., Israel is in very deep
trouble.

I find it fascinating how many Zionists wildly veer back and
forth between the extremes of thinking on the one hand that the
entire world is anti-Semitic and out to get them and on the other
hand denying that the world has grown deeply disenchanted with
Israeli domestic and foreign policies. I find the thought and
mood swings and general inconsistency inexplicable.

Wrt to American funding of NATO vs. Israel: how much aid does the
U.S. grant to Western Europeans on a per capita basis each year?
I'm sure it doesn't come close to $1,000. Also, Western Europe is
of far greater strategic and sentimental significance for the
majority of Americans than Israel. Israel is arguably more a
strategic liability than a strategic asset for the U.S., as the
Gulf War amply proved.

The enemy of Western Europe, the Soviet Union, was indeed until
recently our enemy. Many of the enemies of Israel are America's
friends. Many Americans resent Israel trying to dictate to us who
are enemies should be on the basis of a purely Israeli agenda.
Israel has its agenda, we Americans have our agenda. The Israeli
lobby could be ground up pretty badly in the gap between those
two agendas.
---
  OLX 3.01 31-2557  cultural control systems
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:25057 talk.politics.soviet:10330 soc.history:10618
From: steel@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (JLE)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Are Lebanese considered ARABS (J. LAWEN a PALESTINIAN)
Date: 11 Jan 1993 08:37:49 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu




In article <1993Jan11.065124.26726@mcs.kent.edu> rayes@Goat.mcs.kent.edu (Sandra Rayes) writes:
>In article <1iqpagINNnik@life.ai.mit.edu> steel@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (JLE) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan10.213438.10060@ac.dal.ca> bibr0027@ac.dal.ca writes:
>
>>In May 1948 , the president of Lebanon, Bshara Alkhouri, gave
>>Lebanese Citizenships to all Christian Palestinians on the spot.
>>The ones that are in refugee camps are not there by choice.  The
>>Lebanese Law does not grant them hardly any rights.   It is written
>>in the Lebanese law that a Palestinian may not drive a pickup truck,
>>nor he may work as an Engineer, nor he may own a house.
>>.........................  When Israel invaded Lebanon, it was
>>the Palestinians along with Hizbuallah and Almurabiton that gave 
>>their souls to defend it.   I agree, PLO's leadership stink, but 
>>they faught to survive and liberate their home land.
>
>Yes, and this while Christian Phalangists supported by many of those 
>"Phoenicians" were conspiring with the Israeli military to murder
>and expel Arabs and weaken the Muslims in Lebanon.

Oh yes, I miss having people like you on the net.  You understand
me well Sister.

>>They stand for John Elghani.
>Make that Brother Yahya Al-Ghani min Tarabulus!

Ya salam,  I am so happy to have Sandra back.  I was feeling 
not too well, you made up my nigth, Sister. :)
Yes min Trabulus, would you like some baqlava Trabolsiyyeh min
ind Alhallab?

You don't happen to have an available blood sister of yours for my
available blood brother of mine?  Our family would be rather
proud, as I am proud of Sister Sandra.


>>They love being Lebanese as well as Palestinians.  As long as
>>they are struggling to Liberate Palestine, they are Lebanese, Syrians,
>>Jordanians, they are our people and we cannot let DOGS eat their flesh.
>>
>Let them BARK, brother...ALADHINA YASUDDUNA 'AN SABILILLAHI WA YAB'GHUNAHA
>'IUWAJAN WA HUWA BILAKHIRATI KAAFIRUN... wa Allahu Akbar.

Takbir,

jle
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:25102 soc.culture.arabic:6439 soc.culture.lebanon:5532
From: steel@gnu.ai.mit.edu (JLE)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Are Lebanese considered ARABS (J. LAWEN a Palestinian)
Date: 10 Jan 1993 23:09:57 GMT
Organization: Free Software Foundation
NNTP-Posting-Host: spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article <1993Jan8.160737.10004@ac.dal.ca> bibr0027@ac.dal.ca writes:
>I am a Lebanese ..
>only....  What have the Arabs done for us, except force Palestians
>unto our land ...

OUR LAND?  From the article you just posted on soc.culture.jewish,
you show that YOU ARE A PALESTINIAN YOURSELF. Your family
migrated form Occupied Palesitne a couple of generations ago to Lebanon.

The above people you are calling strangers to Lebanon are
more Lebanese than you.  At least they are of Palestinian blood, but
born on the SOIL of Lebanon, but you are of a Palestinian blood,
but born in Canada.

I guess they have the right to say OUR LAND more than you.

Besides, the Palestinians are not made out of arabic tribal blood,
nor  they are all muslims.  You are a perfect example of a Palestinians.
 
You said: your family came from Isarel a couple of generations
ago, we only disagree on the term you call the land of your folks.

jle
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:25167 talk.politics.soviet:10378 soc.history:10660 soc.culture.soviet:12048 soc.culture.turkish:14111
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.history
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: israel vs. the world
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 93 20:33:52 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1993Jan6.214326.5652@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:

>Let's face it, the Jews have learned that they cannot trust
>the world, and they learned it in a very painful way, during
>WW2. Countries didn't open their gates to Jews, and some that
>escaped were sent back to the gas chambers. When the allies

Poor "Kerenian"; still waxing poetry and lies. Have you ever considered 
that Turks opened their arms to the unfortunates of the world more so 
than many other nations? Humane behavior and tolerance of Turks was 
a legend even 500 years ago when they accepted tens of thousands of 
Jews from Spain who were fleeing from the Spanish Inquisition. Again, 
many Jewish families escaping from Dro and Hitler's Nazi Germany took 
refugee in Turkiye during the 1940's. Although she has no legal obligation 
to do so, Turkiye has opened her doors out of humanitarian concerns over 
and over again. 

On the other hand, the Tzeghagrons (Armenian Racial Patriots) 
was the youth organization of the Dashnaktzoutun. It was based in
Boston (where ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism Triangle is located) but 
had followers in Armenian colonies all over the world. Literally
Tzeghagron means 'to make a religion of one's race.' The architect
of the Armenian Racial Patriots was Garegin Nezhdeh, a Nazi Armenian
who became a key leader of collaboration with Hitler in World War II.
In 1933, he had ben invited to the United States by the Central
Committee of the Dashnaktzoutun to inspire and organize the 
American-Armenian youth. Nezhdeh succeeded in unifying many local
Armenian youth groups in the Tzeghagrons. Starting with 20
chapters in the initial year, the Tzeghagrons grew to 60 chapters
and became the largest and most powerful Nazi Armenian organization.
Nezhdeh also provided the Tzeghagrons with a philosophy:

 "The Racial Religious beliefs in his racial blood as a deity.
  Race above everything and before everything. Race comes first."[1]

[1] Quoted in John Roy Carlson (real name Arthur Derounian), "The
    Armenian Displaced Persons," in 'Armenian Affairs,' Winter,
    1949-50, p. 19, footnote.

Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24966 soc.culture.turkish:13952
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: Leaving
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:59:11 GMT

In <1ihti1INN1nl@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
(Hamaza H. Salah) writes:

>That is the way to do it.  Go back to where you belong to!
>I hope all muslims will do the same, including me.

Sounds like Zionism to me - "Go back to where you belong... I hope
all Jews will do the same..."

:-)

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Irish Racism
Date: 5 Jan 1993 13:17:33 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


Just kidding, Wayne.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: idfriedm@hertz.uwaterloo.ca (id friedman)
Subject: Re: israel as asset
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:44:01 GMT

In article <C0pJKG.5AC@apollo.hp.com> goykhman@apollo.hp.com (Red Herring) writes:
>In article <1993Jan9.1777.22304@channel1> "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:
>...
>>As Desert Storm proved, Saudi Arabia is a much more valuable
>>strategic asset for the U.S. in the Mideast than Israel. By your
>>logic, then, the U.S. should be providing MORE than $1,000 per
>>annum per Saudi in aid. But we don't, do we. Saudi Arabia pays
>>its own way.
>...
>
>    Saudi Arabia isn't an asset, but a major LIABILITY for the U.S.
>
      Saudi Arabia is such a great asset to the U.S that they
      didn't even allow U.S servicemen to display signs of their
      own religion.


>    Here's a country with population of ~15,000,000 armed to the 
>    teeth with most sofisticated Western-made gadgetry, yet unable
>    and/or unwilling to defend itself against war-weary Iraq (pop. 
>    ~17,000,000) armed with mostly outdated Soviet-made weapons.
>                                                
>    Saudi Arabia's way is paid with the lives of American serviceman and 
>    -women who died during the Persian Gulf war.  Had it not been for the 
>    Israelis blowing up the Iraqi nuclear reactor in 1982, that price 
>    would have been much, much higher.
>
     As I said before Wayne would rather fight a country with nukes than
     one without them. We all have strange desires.

     Also, Israel warned the U.S about Iraq while Reagen, Bush and company
    were feeding them weapons like crazy.

    Some liability!!

Ishay


>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-- 
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Follow the money" Deep Throat
>Disclaimer: Other opinions are mine only
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rich@micro-ix.UUCP (rich)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Irish Catholic Racism
Date: 8 Jan 93 16:32:05 GMT
Organization: Micro-ix, Sudbury, MA

In article <1ic1uaINNs6c@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) writes:
> 
> Hey, Wayne.  Do you get the picture?  Do you understand that when
> you refer to one person who you regard as a racist, and label the
> post 'Israeli racism,' that it is YOU who is being the racist?  

Hey, Mark. I get the picture. You don't like what
Wayne is saying and can't argue with his facts, so you try to shout
him down with provocative irrelevancies.

Whazza matta Mark?  Can't address the issues? 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: zmbenhal@netcom.com (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim)
Subject: Re: What is this doing on page 15
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 00:57:44 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.124716.7393@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
># Beacuse FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME, the deportation are against international law.
>
>	And for the millionth time, that is simply not true.  Repeating
>that lie does not make it true (even when repeated "FOR THE MILLIONTH
>TIME"), and follows the Nazi pattern of the big lie.
>
>	As WIlliam Safire (among others) has pointed out, such an action

And who the fuck appointed William Safire THE interpreter of International law?
The UN, including the USA, says it is. Everybody in the world execpt Israel
accepts that deportations are against the Geneva convention. The accused's
interpretation of the law is irrelevant.

>is not against international law.  Thos countries that condemn it as
>such are making POLITICAL statements, they are NOT making LEGAL ones.
>
># A state is free to arrest anybody, not only terrorists, it can CHARGE them, and
># TRY them, and IF found guilt PUNISH them? Arresting somebody is not a
># punishment, deporting them IS. Collective punishment, imposed randomly, without
># charge or trial is a violation of human rights.
>
>	You are being misleading.  Israel is fighting a war with these
>people that these people declared against Israel.  Israel is certainly
>within their rights to defend herself whether you like it or not.

In that case they are free to kill any Israeli they come across! The reason
Israel has to fight the arabs is because it continues to oppress them.

># Of course, non of this matters to you, all Israeli-apologists try to deflect
># the issue of how bad they are(considering the bragging about being a democracy)
># by pointing out how bad other people are. It is like being arrested for murder
># and ranting about how Manson, Bundy, and Dahmer are much worse than you are,
># you only killed a couple of people, therefore you should be patted on the back
># and told to go home.
>
>	Wrong.  It is meant to show what kind of neighborhood Israel tries
>to exist in.  Obviously, certain behaviour that is necessary in one
>kind of environment is not allowed in others.

I'm sure living in South-Central L.A. is an excuse for drive-by shootings. Nice
going @#$%^*(!

># >Can You say "hypocrisy" boys and girls?
> 
># I.S.R.A.E.L.I. A.P.O.L.O.G.I.S.T.S. , is that close?
>
>	Nope.  Israel does not need apologists since it has nothing to
>apologize for.

An oxymoron If I ever seen one. "I'm NOT defensive!".

>--
>	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
>at math and those that are not.

You are obviously of the third kind :-)

>
>makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu

Zeyd
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24692 soc.culture.greek:12047
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.greek
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: GREEK INVASION IN CYPRUS 1974..cont..
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 93 20:41:43 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <C0CM19.tM@acsu.buffalo.edu> v999saum@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Varnavas A. Lambrou) writes:

>For years before the invasion, Turkish governments and others favouring
>the partition of Cyprus had propounded the cynical opinion that "Greeks
>and Turks cannot live together". 

This joke will open the skies to mankind. While there is a new world
order emerging, to turn around and ask the Turkish Republic of Northern 
Cyprus (TRNC) to dance with an old world tune would not solve any 
problems. Who is ready to claim that 'Greek Cypriots' are not hating 
the 'Turkish Cypriots?' Insisting on not recognizing the TRNC as a 
separate republic and push them to get together with Greek Cypriots
is no different than asking each and every one of the new republics 
of old Soviet Union, Croatia and Slovenia in Yugoslavia to go back 
to the old status quo.


 DAILY TELEGRAPH (London)
 
 GRAVES OF 12 SHOT TURKISH CYPRIOTS FOUND IN CYPRUS VILLAGE

 Silent crowds gathered tonight outside the Red Crescent hospital in the
 Turkish Sector of Nicosia, as the bodies of 9 Turkish Cypriots found
 crudely buried outside the village of Ayios Vassilios, 13 miles away, were
 brought to the hospital under the escort of the Parachute Regiment. Three 
 more bodies, including one of a woman, were discovered nearby but could
 not be removed. Turkish Cypriots guarded by paratroops are still trying to 
 locate the bodies of 20 more believed to have been buried on the same site.

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
From: bill@bcserv.wustl.edu (Eldridge (Bill))
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: american opinion
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:29:31 GMT
Organization: Washington University in Saint Louis, MO USA
Distribution: talk,world
NNTP-Posting-Host: bcserv.wustl.edu

backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes:

>In article <bill.725741652@castor>, bill@cognet.ucla.edu (William M. Eldridge) writes:
>>
>> This is a good analogy.  What do you have to do to get citizenship then?

>I'm afraid you simply don't understand that in MANY European countries,
>citizenship is not automatic. Switzerland is no exception.

I'm afraid you don't understand.  In most countries, gaining citizenship
through immigration is not automatic.  However, in most countries, being
born there does guarantee you citizenship (with a variety of exceptions
and modifications).  Certainly there aren't many European countries that
disenfranchise large portions of their population (and the ones that do
aren't generally called democratic)/.

>>
>>>> This is just trying to blow up the sympathy level for Israel
>>>> to get more money.  Everybody else in the world PAID during that
>>>> war.  Israel feels it deserves a profit.
>>>> (Casualties?  Ten?  Oh my.)
>>
>>>Oh my ! How Christian of you ! But then again, you know how JEWS are when it
>>>comes to profit :-)
>>
>> Why are you bringing in the Christian/Jew angle (have I made any pro-Christian
>> or anti-Jewish comments?).

>Yes, your comment was absurd and rascist.

Bullshit.  Your comment is insulting, not just to me, but to Jews
who suffer real affronts and racism, not just your over-sensitive
paranoia, or your trivial misappropriating the term.

-- 
William M. Eldridge			bill@bcserv.wustl.edu
Biochemistry Department Box 8231	(314) 362-3436
Washington Univ. School of Medicine	(314) 362-7183 (fax)
660 S. Euclid, St. Louis, MO 63110
From: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: channel one
Date: 7 Jan 93 19:17:53 EST
Reply-To: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Distribution: talk
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

To: Chris Metcalfe

 CM> How do I subscribe to the Channel 1 BBS?  How do I obtain an
 CM> index of services, forums, and resources available at
 CM> Channel 1?

Chris,

Try dialing 1-617-354-8873. Channel One is a PCBoard system and
you might keep in mind the following key commands:

     j (join) for a list of conferences
     b (bulletins) for a list of bulletins concerning system
        resources and policies
     f (files) for a list of file areas

Channel One boasts an extraordinarily rich collection of
resources. And do keep in mind that it has no political
affiliations of any kind, and I myself am solely responsible for
my own views. I am merely one of thousands of subscribers to the
system.

Wayne
---
  OLX 3.01 31-2557  How to balance a tredecillion files on your fingertip.
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: News from the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 23:46:22 GMT

In article <29971@castle.ed.ac.uk> jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) writes:
>In article <1993Jan7.162321.166@vms.huji.ac.il> backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
>~> It might be interesting to publish the standard American or British
>~> police or military response to someone running at them.
>~
>~
>~THEY SHOOT TO KILL !!!!!
>
>Sources, please.

SOP. Somalia.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.