From: chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman)
Subject: Re: Roe v. Wade is unrestricted abortion on demand throughout pregnancy
Organization: City of Saint Paul Public Works
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:29:34 GMT

dsh@eceyv.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
> chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman) writes:
>> dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:

>>> Why hasn't anyone addressed the documentation which I have
>>> provided showing that Roe v. Wade is unrestricted abortion-
>>> on-demand?  I've provided sources from the Alan Guttmacher
>>> Institute, an ACLU attorney who argued in PP v. Casey,
>>> a respected Georgetown University law professor, and
>>> an article written in the Harvard Civil Rights-Civil Liberties
>>> Law Review.  Not one person has refuted any of these sources.

>> There were about a half-dozen refutations of your sources last summer, Doug.
>> J. Greenfield in particular showed how the meaning of the texts you quoted
>> changed completely when restored to their contexts.

> I remember Jeff Greenfield as being the only person who attempted to
> address my sources.   None of my sources had been taken out of context.
> Jeff Greenfield made that accusation because he knew he had lost the
> argument, and he was getting desperate.  He couldn't debate me without
> slinging dirt. 

Liar.  Susan Garvin saved those posts, in case your memory needs refreshing.
I had them saved too, but deleted them before I realized that you'd become
trapped in endless recursion on this issue.

>> [--RvW excerpt deleted--]

>>> Are you telling me that Kathyrn Kolbert, attorney for the ACLU
>>> in PP v. Casey, is a liar?

>> No, I am telling you that you are a liar.

> I'm simply quoting Kathyrn Kolbert, attorney for the ACLU.  You're calling
> her a liar.

I wish I'd saved all the posts demonstrating your lack of reading skills.
First you had trouble discerning the difference between "want" and "deserve."
Now it's "you" and "Kathyrn Kolbert."  Do you have any idea how ridiculous
you look?

>>> Is the Alan Guttmacher Institute a pack of liars?

>> No, I am telling you that you are a liar.

> I'm simply quoting the Alan Guttmacher Institute.  You're calling them
> a pack of liars.

Now you're having trouble discerning the difference between "you" and
"Alan Guttmacher Institute."  When you get up in the morning, how can 
you be sure you're brushing the right person's teeth?

>>> Remember, these people support abortion rights, and they say that women
>>> can obtain abortions during the third trimester for very broadly defined
>>> ``health'' reasons.

>> Indeed.  It's been pointed out before that less than 100 abortions are
>> performed in the U.S. after the 24th week.  The source of that tidbit of
>> information is the Alan Guttmacher Institute. 

> There are several thousand abortions performed annually after the 21st week 
> of pregnancy (viability starts at around the 22nd to 23rd week).

Viability in how many cases?  Suppose, Doug, that through heroic medical
intervention costing hundreds of thousands of dollars and involving
hundreds of work hours for medical professionals, 1 preemy at 20 weeks
of gestation was saved out of, say, 100.  Do we say that viability starts
at 20 weeks?

-- 
Chris Lyman  /  email: chrisl@pwcs.stpaul.gov  / standard disclaimers
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
character, give him power."  -- Abraham Lincoln