HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Paul (was Re: Favorite Bible Verses
Date: 15 Sep 92 00:35:00 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep14.172921.10404@linus.mitre.org>, m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes...
>In article <12SEP199214092476@rosie.uh.edu> lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep10.154615.27996@linus.mitre.org>, m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes...
>>>In article <8SEP199221092286@jane.uh.edu> lib1p@jane.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
>>>Paul a deciple of Christ said
>}>}
>}>}Sorry Chris, I have to go against you on this one.  Paul may have
>}>}called himself a disciple of Christ, but he never even met Christ
>}>}much less studied under him.
>}> 
>}>Good try.  The claim is that Saul met him on the road to the D place.
>}
>}A vision, I'm sorry but anybody can claim a vision, look at the
>}Virgin Mary thing in Kentucky! 
> 
>Can, and do.  Hence religion.
> 
>}Whether this is true or not is immaterial.  Just because I meet
>}you on a road, does that make me capable of carrying out your
>}teachings to others.  ***NOT!***
> 
>Didn't say met him.  Said _CLAIM_ was that had met him.  Two different
>things.
> 
> 

That still does not make him a disciple of Christ, which was the original
statement.  "Disciples of Christ" are people who studied directly from
the man refered to as Jesus.  Paul was not one of these.  Someone was stating
the Paul was a disciple of christ and that what he wrote was the teachings of
christ.  How can someone pass down a teaching he never got?

When I pointed out this error, you said "Good try".  It is not a "try".  It is
fact.  That people are willing to accept Paul as speaking for Christ is the
folly which is perpetuated.  

Tammy
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: whijv2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (WHITAKER JASON)
Subject: Wow????!!!!!
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 01:27:39 GMT

I accidently came upon this newsgroup and the article titles caught
my eyes. What exactly is paganism? Is it just the worshipping of the
ancient Gods? 

Whatever it is, I am very interested and would like some more info.

Thanks a lot.


The Sneaky One
whijv2@cspyr1.adfa.oz.au


Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: uphrrmk@Msu.oscs.montana.edu (Me)
Subject: Re: hazeleyes
Reply-To: uphrrmk@Msu.oscs.montana.edu (Me)
Organization: Montana State University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:32:10 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.165123.9615@nas.nasa.gov>, storm@smaug.nas.nasa.gov (Steve Storm) writes:
>Maybe there is something to it!  :-)  Here is another proud owner
>of "witch hazel eyes".  It _must_ mean something!!!!
NO WAY,... Hazel eyes are right pretty, but just not the same as the faun-
bright brown of some pagan's eyes.(Including mine, of course.) Brown eyes 
have their own majick.
         La Morte.>
>-storm
>
>-- 
>As we endure storms,    |  storm@smaug.nas.nasa.gov  | DISCLAIMER:
>So we receive rainbows. |       (415) 604-4372       | Opinions, not policies!
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: New pagans and reading
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 4 Sep 92 22:50:39 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.150451.21175@spider.co.uk> alisonjw@spider.co.uk (Alison J Wyld) writes:
>In article <2AA57400.1570@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>>
>>Rosalind Miles's _The Woman's History of the World_  NOT written by a
>>ballbreaker, despite the title.  It has literally NOTHING AT ALL in it
>>that a mancould possibly find offensive of biased.  It is there to
>>CORRECT a bias, and the first few chapters will give you a nice overview
>>of what are called "matriarchies."
>>
>I'd be particularly careful to balance your reading of this book with
>reading of history/archaeology etc.  Its a great book.  Its brilliant
>feminist polemic, but Miles is prone to state opinion as fact and
>theories as proven.  

Trust me, I didn't fall in love with history upon reading this book.
I've studied it as an amateur for years -- ever since I can remember.
Her views are tempered with everything else I've read.

It's similar to how I read Barbara Walker; she balances things for me
and demonstrates another point of view.  I learn tidbits that I didn't
know, and judge her etymology with a careful eye. 

Don't worry; I don't accept ANYONE'S scholarship on its own terms! 

>Two examples : she states that the Eve Hypothesis
>is widely accepted.  In fact it is very controversial. (I'm not saying
>its not true, just that its not proven.)  

Metaphorically, though, it IS accepted -- just as the Tarzan mythos is
accepted by popular culture. 

Blessings,
Janis


Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Subject: Re: Templars not Masons <flame risk HIGH>
Reply-To: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 20:39:02 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.005431.8958@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, 
pmw2c@csissun12.ee.Virginia.EDU (Paul Michael Wayner) writes:
> In article <1992Sep8.195138.12205@lmt.mn.org>, ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org
> (Ciaran Benson) writes:
> 
> |>   It may be so that this leaves me ignorant and spiteful, and
> |> those of you who have written suggesting that I broaden my
> |> horizons are right, but when attempting to study the history
> |> of oppressed people it is difficult to keep a pleasant thought
> |> for the with the oppressors, and I sometimes end up myoptically
> |> attacking people and groups who only bear surface similarities
> |> to the true aggressors.
> 
> Hi, I missed the beginning of this thread, and I'm curious about
> the "oppressed people" you were studying and how they tie into
> crusaders.
> 
> 					Paul Wayner

  Hi Paul;

  It's an old, hopefully soon-to-die thread where some folks
were talking about the Templars and I ran off on a hideous
piss-fit about the Teutonic, the subjection of the Baltics,
the loss of family traditions (part of my family's from
Lithuania), and, in general, acted like a real butt.

  All the while getting my groups confused (Templar? Teutonic?
They both start with "T" and have swords, so I got mixed up).

  Some folks rightly suggested I should study history.

  I was pointing out that, as far as studying the modivation
of the Teutonic Knights is concerned, I'd rather spend my life
studying the remnants of Lithuanian, Mongolian, and AmerIndian
history than studying the Teutonics, the Romans, or the American
Cavalry (and, more recently, the FBI for that matter).

  Would you rather spend 5 hours studying the colapse of
rome, or the valient Attila?  If your family traces back
to Rome, I'd suppose you'd be studying the Roman crusaders
and the vanquished Romans who were so terribly oppressed by
the Vandels.  For myself, I'd rather study the crusaders from
Mongol.

  That's an interesting thought -- I suppose you could say that
we've each got crusaders in the closet, huh?  :)

  All Hail Attila, the White Stag, who led our people to the
promised land!

  Maybe that's why I've got a sword fettish.  Ciaran.

  $uslinit; include oblig.sig <<
  "...And here, Queen Aphrodite, pour heavenly nectar into gold
   cups, and fill them gracefully with sudden joy."  -- Sappho >>
From: SL500000@brownvm.brown.edu (Robert Mathiesen)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Circle Guide?
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 07:38:19 EDT
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

I got a copy of the new edition about 4 weeks ago through a bookdealer, so
they're probably available from Circle too.  From your post, it's likely
that Circle credited your account and meant for you to reorder when the new
edition was out.  Lots of dealers work this way these days.  Only problem
is, how do you know when the new edition's out if they're not going to take
the trouble to tell you ...

Robert
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: evc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Edward Van Cura)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.mythology
Subject: Variations of Sword in Stone (re: Celtic)
Date: 7 Sep 92 04:11:46 GMT
Followup-To: alt.pagan


From *The Encyclopedia of Religion* edited by Mircea Eliade
Book 3, Page 162.
                        ,               ,
"At Tara stood the Lia Fail ("stone of Fal"), the "stone penis" which
cried out when it came in contact with the man destined to be king."

Could this be the Celtic origin of the Sword in the Stone myth?

There is a Germanic version from the Old Norse *Saga of the Volsungs* 
(Jesse Byock translation, chapter 3) except that the myth becomes
the Sword in the Tree:

<<<Begin Quote>>>
"It is now told that when people were sitting by the fires in the
evening a man came into the hall. He was not known to the men by
sight. He was dressed in this way: he wore a mottled cape that was
hooded; he was barefoot and had linen breeches tied around his legs.
As he walked up to Barnstock he held a sword in his hand while over
his head was a low-hanging hood. He was very tall and gray with age,
and he had only one eye. [Quess Who!] He brandished the sword and thrust
it into the trunk so that it sank up to the hilt. Words of welcome
failed everyone. Then the man began to speak: "He who draws this sword
out of the trunk shall receive it from me as a gift, and he himself
shall prove that he has never carried a better sword than this one."

Then this old man walked out of the hall, and nobody knew who he was
or where he was going. They stood up now, and no one disputed whether
or not to grasp the sword; each thought the one who reached it first
would be best off. The noblest men went up to it first, and then each
of the others. No one who came forward succeeded in moving it, no
matter which way he tried. Now Sigmund [Sigurdhr's father], the son of
King Volsung, came forward. He grasped the sword, and drew it from the
trunk. It was as if the sword lay loose for him."
<<<End Quote>>>
                            ,
This is the same sword that Odhinn later breaks in a battle signaling 
the death of Sigmund. The shards of the sword were kept and Sigmund's
son, Sigurdhr, reforged the sword which he later used in the slaying
of the Dragon Fafnir. It should be noted that Tolkien used this myth
in his mythological world, albeit with changes.

Be Sprinkled With Blood,
Thorfinn Einarsson

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process 
 he does not become a monster. And when you look into an abyss, 
 the abyss looks into you."  --- Nietzsche
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: leighann@sybase.com (Leigh Ann Hussey)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Marija Gimbutas (Was: Re: more Minoan stuff)
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:28:52 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc.

In article <1992Sep7.072643.27812@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
>	After that, a lot of her archeological colleagues became
>turned off by her interest in the belief systems of the people she
>studied; many of them tended to a nuts-and-bolts (cute anachronism)
>view of archeology. She claims to have lost many professional friends.
>My suspicion is because her proposals seem too romantic for her
>colleagues' tastes

Not only too romantic, but not really based in fact.  She has a vision
of the Great White Matriarchy that controlled Europe, under which
everyone was peaceful, nobody used knives, everybody was a placid
agriculturalist in an ideal Utopia until those nasty Indo-Europeans came
along and conquered everything.

I have only one question for her, and I couldn't ask it at the
book-signing she was at in Berkeley a couple of years back, because the
pro-Gimbutas crowd would surely have strung me from the rafters: she
says that the bull's head is symbolic of the uterus.  So, pray tell,
just when did these peaceful agriculturalists do their vivisection?

From her later writings, and her speaking in person, I get the
impression that Gimbutas is rapidly becoming one of the "Horrible nasty
men and male technology have ruined the world, and the only solution is
to go back to the Bronze Age" school of thought.  Sigh.  At the risk of
getting royally flamed for my pains, I will publicly opine that at this
point we're too far gone for that to be a solution, and the only
solution must ultimately be provided by that very same technology.  We
have it; let's use it right.

Hey, how'd this soapbox get under my feet? ...;-)

B*B
	- Leigh Ann

----------------
Leigh Ann Hussey 		leighann@sybase.com
CoG #151E
"Take no scorn to wear the Horn; it was the Crest when you were born!"
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: pagan self-defense
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 9 Sep 92 07:50:07 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.004624.134@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes:
>radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes:
>[...]
>> So, if you do those things and still want the gun, then go
>> ahead and get it/them.  Then, follow some basic safety
>> precautions. (e.g. Don't leave the gun loaded, or easily
>> accessible to anyone.)
>
>donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal) responds:
>> Tim... Do you really think that if an intruder is in your house you 
>> are going to have the time and presence of mind to load your gun?
>
>A revolver -- no.
>
>A pistol with a clip -- sure thing.  It takes about a half second,
>and it's loaded.
>
>If you don't have the presence of mind to load the gun -- then
>you shouldn't be using the gun!  Remember what I said about
>shooting the dog or your kid!  For this, it doesn't matter if
>you're using a revolver or a clip.

This is a good point; it also goes for revolvers, though.  I remember
seeing a little doohickey that held six rounds in it for easy loading
into a revolver.  YOu just shove the cylinder to one side like you do
normally, stick the loading doohickey up against it, push, and presto!
Your revolver is loaded in about a gezillionth of a second.  Of course,
you're still going to want to keep them close to each other, which may
negate any safety effects of keeping it unloaded in the first place.
I can't help it; all I can think about is the kids that would get
killed.  

>As for locking it up, I imagine that for most situations, you
>know there's an intruder well before s/he gets to where you're
>at.  It should take about 20 seconds to unlock the gun, and that
>should usually be enough.  If not, then you probably couldn't
>SAFELY get to where the gun's at regardless of whether it's
>locked up or not.

A three number combination lock through a revolver with the cylinder
oushed out would be fine.  A key lock would also be okay, but you would
have to keep the key on you physically at all times to keep it out of
little hands.  (And do you really want to live like that?  I shouldn't
ask that; for too many people, I suppose, moving out is a luxury.)  

>Keep the gun unloaded.  It's OK to have a full clip near the
>gun, though.

A pistol with a clip is wonderful for this!  Great suggestion; we've all
seen to many old westerns . . .

Blessings,
Janis
From: gerda@brewich.hou.tx.us (Gerda Thunarsson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Learning in North Carolina
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 05:33:12 CDT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

morgan@brewich.hou.tx.us (Morgan ap Rhys) writes:

> Any of these can give you a good start on the road.  I have found that 
> tbe best sources are B. Daltons, Waldenbooks, and the Book Stop.  Being 
> national chains and not small independent stores, they have more freedom 
 
i find the B. Dalton's is a hit or miss thing.  some have a good pagan 
section, well not good, almost adequate would be a better term, and 
others have nothing at all.  In Houston, Waldenbooks at Northwest Mall is 
the best of the Walden/Dalton chain.  Where I agree on BookStop being the 
best.  You can get a lot of the books you want/need at the Magick 
CAuldron, but you can get them at a discount at Waldenbooks or Bookstop.
 
Gerda

------------------
gerda@brewich.hou.tx.us (Gerda Thunarsson)
(Alternate) gerda%brewich@lobster.hou.tx.us
Origin: The Brewer's Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350
     "Silence is the voice of complicity" - Vote Early, Vote Often!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.individualism,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.misc
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Subject: Re: pagan self-defense
Organization: Western Washington University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 22:11:44 GMT

andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman) writes:

>(Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>>Oh, please.  All I'm saying is that if we are turning out a large enough
>>number of fucked-up people that we are forced to gear a substantial part
>>of our society toward dealing with them, we should be looking for the
>>root cause of the trouble.

>That's wonderful, but it has no place in a discussion about what to do
>AFTER they've been turned out.

	I've allowed my own argument to stray into too many tangents.  
Andy's statement above is the essence of my point.

Jim Del Vecchio
From: alizard@drc.UUCP (alizard)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: re: Fundies: expensive
Date: 6 Sep 92 00:54:48 GMT
Organization: BLa Bla Bla Bla Bla BLa BLa Concord,Ca

For a general attack on the fundie attempt to take America back to
the Stone Age, why not People for the American Way?

While they aren't specifically pagan, they are well funded and rather
dedicated...
B*B
alizard
(please respond to:
  alizard@tweekco.uucp  OR  boo!tweekco!alizard@PacBell.COM
  [uunet]!pacbell!boo!tweekco!alizard
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: Hello!
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 00:09:48 GMT


Greetings Hulda,

I sent this to you as a private reply, but the Mailer Daemon here didn't
like your address. You know how finicky those Daemons can be. I threatened
it with an excorsism, but it didn't work, so I'm posting my reply to you
here. Anyway;

I'm the fellow who is questing for men's mysteries. Yes, I know if Wotan,
but only as the chief of all the Norse gods. I've never seen anything that
wasn't some version of the Eddas. When I was a child I studied many mythologies
and never found a GOOD book on the Norse mythos. If you can recommend some 
I will be grateful.

Also, I don't know who Ymir Thunarsson is, or what the Ring of Troth is
either. More clarification would would also be appreciated.

Thank you for the information you've given so far, and I lool forward
to more.

To this I will add the same request to Grendel, who has just informed a
fellow from PODnet that the Friends of Loki are here. If you have any
information on Norse mythos or traditions you are willing to share with me,
I would be grateful. Books are a good start. My thanks in advance.


Bb,

Corun
-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    | To sit with a pretty woman for an hour seems like
  Dark Horde by birth  | a minute. To sit on a hot stove for a minute seems
    Moritu by choice   | like an hour. That's relativity. --  A. Einstein
From: jmm25@po.CWRU.Edu (Jessica M. Mcgeary)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Christian Census
Date: 15 Sep 1992 18:56:04 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


Ya know, there may be more to that claim than meets the eye... in the
town back in Jersey I used to live in, before I left for college, there's
a high Jewish population (actually, that's in the town where I worked.
Where I live is all either WASPs or Catholics.) And there was a car 
driving around Morristown that belonged to a group of what I think are
called Messianic Jews (though I could be wrong about the name). There was
a bunch of Hebrew writing that I couldn't understand on top of the car,
then, in English, the sign atop the car said "Moshiach is Coming- October
28!!!"

Just something I noticed.
-- 
Jessica McGeary
jmm25@po.cwru.edu
Case Western Reserve University
Remember! Arguments should be FUN!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: blchapma@eos.ncsu.edu (BEKKI LYN)
Subject: Re: Christian Census
Originator: blchapma@c00005-118dan.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: blchapma@eos.ncsu.edu (BEKKI LYN)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 14:36:57 GMT


In article <209ZqB2w165w@brewich.hou.tx.us>, popec@brewich.hou.tx.us (Pope Charles) writes:
|> Bolt yer doors and pull down the curtains!  Here they come.  September 
|> 20th a number of evangelical churches are going to hold what they call 
|> "The Christian Census".  That is, on that date they intend to have a 
|> massive door to door campaign designed to ask every man, woman and child 
|> in America, "have you found Jesus"?  Just thot you all would like to 
|> know. 
|>   You hear the knock on the door.  You know it's 'them'.  You go to the 
|> door, you open it and you say................................

Speaking of amusing tidbits of knowledge, I just heard that Jesus
was coming back in the air on October 28, 1992 at 10:00 E.S.T.
Yes, yes, yes, I heard it right here on the N.C State campus.

Therefore, when they come to the door, one can say... "Not yet, 
but if you wait about a month....
 
-- 

Bekki Lyn

************************************************************
"All's well at the midnight hour; you're ready to fly
 Don't think about the darkness, or the rumbling in the sky.
 Somewhere on the morning road just waiting for you
 Some things that just could never be are calling up a
   spell so you can see..
 Dream Evil, the dark that you find in the back of your mind
 Dream Evil Dream Evil -- DIO --
************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Subject: Re: Canada (was: Re: Freedom of Religion as well as everything else)
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 01:08:42 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.013215.22342@csus.edu> altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim) writes:
>
>Bullshit.
>
>When you can't recognize some blatantly anti-socialist propaganda
>promulgated by the American press, remember that in 1977 the CIA had
>a _documented_ number of people working from their budget in the 
>New York times. Now? Who knows?

 Gee, that Canadian doctor MUST have been lying and knows less than you
about the business.

Wassail,
Grendel

                           mimir@u.washington.edu
    /\  /\       +----------------------------------------+
   /__\/__\      | "I know that I hung on the windy tree  |          |
  /\  /\  /\     |  all of nights nine, wounded by Gar,   |          |
 /__\/__\/__\    |   given to Odhinn, myself to myself,   |          |
    /\  /\       | upon that tree of which none can tell  |          |
   /__\/__\      |      from what root it rises."         |    ______|______
                 +----------------------------------------+
From: SL500000@brownvm.brown.edu (Robert Mathiesen)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Different types of Wicca
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:54:39 EDT
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

There is, however, a great deal to be said for taking time to read Zsuzsana
Budapest's _Holy Book of Women's Mysteries_ (which is not too hard to get);
there's some very good stuff in it.  -- Robert

Robert Mathiesen, Brown University, SL500000@BROWNVM
Newsgroups: alt.pagan