From: albert@endor.uucp (David Albert)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Plain Talk About Spanking (long)
Date: 10 Nov 92 01:46:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Nov10.014608.19822
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University

Dan Knierem (dank@tekig6.pen.tek.com) writes:
>Following are a couple of quotes from different posts...

The first one is mine. I wrote:

>>I don't believe in 'punishment'.  That does not
>>mean that I think you can let people (of any age) do things that hurt
>>themselves or others.  And as a parent you have more of a responsibility
>>to prevent a child from hurting people than in other sorts of relationships.

>>There are all sorts of ways to do this.  If you need to restrain someone,
>>you restrain them.  If someone is tired and needs a rest, you can remove
>>them from a situation.  If someone has caused harm, you can require
>>restitution, up to the ability of the person to restore what was damaged.

Dan writes:

>I have trouble understanding the difference between punishment and restraint
>or restitution as an adult.  (E.g. if you throw me in jail to restrain me
>from some activity society considers wrong, I will feel punished.  Ditto if
>you sue me successfully for actual damages, if I don't understand why my
>actions should be considered at fault for causing said damages.)  I think the
>distinction is lost on small children.

>Can someone who sees the distinctions help me understand them, and give
>examples of how to explain them to a child (e.g. 2 - 6 YO range is of most
>interest to me at the moment)?

In my experience, and to the best of my ability to tell how a child is
feeling, the distinction is not lost.  (To the best of my ability to recall
my childhood, the distinction was not lost on me either).  There is a big
difference that I, and that I believe most children I have taken care of,
understand between my saying "You did something wrong and I need to punish
you" and my saying "what you did hurt so-and-so and we need to make things
better", *even if* the actions that follow are identical.  However, the
actions that follow these two parental statements are rarely identical.
Parents who "punish" their children for doing things they consider wrong
usually do things other than what I would do in a given situation.

The examples you give are about adults, although you ask about how to
explain the difference to children aged 2 to 6.  But I don't try to explain
the difference, since for me there is no difference to explain.  I don't
punish.  [I have lost my temper and done things I might not have otherwise
done (yelling, primarily) but that is not what I "do", and certainly not
what I recommend doing.]  I can't really imagine a 4 year old asking me
to explain the difference between my actions and punishment (or if there
were such a 4 year old, I'd expect her also to understand my answer!).

To an adult, you can say:  your actions caused harm to so-and-so.  You
may believe your actions were justified, but there is a difference of
opinion and apparently most people (or a 12-person jury, or whatever)
agree with me. I'm sorry you feel wronged, but so do I, and I hope you
can try to see my point of view.

You can say the same thing to a 2 year old, if it comes to that.  She
may not fully understand you at the time, but I think such conversations
are understood a whole lot more than is commonly believed.  Certainly
over time I think such conversations are understood better and better,
and serve to build a healthy relationship.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Albert				  | Illegitimi non carborundum est.
albert@das.harvard.edu		 	  |