HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sdfinuca@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Sean Finucane)
Subject: First Aid Liability
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:16:12 GMT

I was planning to take standard St. John's First Aid and also CPR next
year and was wondering, as the Heading says, about liability.

When I was young (:-) I had both of these as well as Life-Guarding 
qualifications (which only got used twice, thank God) and I was told
that liability wasn't an issue at my level.  A friend, however, just
suggested that even with just standard first aid, if you see a 
"situation" and do not assist, or if you do assist and either make a mistake
or just can't do anything, you can be sued or charged or other nasty things.
(She took a similar course a couple of years back)

I wouldn't go for the training if I didn't plan to use it when necessary,
but her concerns have got me worried.  Should I take the courses and
flunk the exam?  It all seems stupid and cruel and it probably keeps
a lot of lawyers in business, but I'd like to know the facts.

I'd be especially interested in this from a Canadian point of view,
but American replies would be of interest as well.

If these things aren't a problem at my level, is there a level where
it is a concern.  I'd like some day to take an EMT course.  Does it
make a difference?

Thanx,
Citizen of the World.


From: chapman@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Larry Chapman)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:08:45 GMT
Subject: Looking For Kids Book
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry


I'm looking for a good collection of stories for kids with an
outdoor theme.

Can you help?

-- LSC
From: EWALKER@utmmg.med.uth.tmc.edu (Eldon Walker)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Lyme Disease E-mail Network...
Date: 17 Dec 1992 18:39:33 GMT
Organization: UT MEDICAL SCHOOL AT HOUSTON
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.23

In <1992Dec17.155602.47145@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> mcg2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu writes:

>  Self appointed experts in the academic community have
> declared that LD can always be cured with short courses of simple antibiotics.
>
  I cannot speak for all of academics, but I can say I do not know one 
person in spirochete research who would make this (patently incorrect)
statement concerning Lyme borreliosis.	   

--Eldon Walker; ewalker@casper.med.uth.tmc.edu-------------------------- 
Persons attempting to find a motive in this narrative will be prosecuted;
persons attempting to find a moral in it will be banished;
persons attempting to find a plot in it will be shot. -S. Clemens                   
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: mdm24@cas.org (Matthew D. Marquand)
Subject: Invitation from Rockport
Keywords: Rockport, Kilamanjaro
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:15:09 GMT

Got home last night to a letter from Rockport (footwear manufacturers)
containing an invitation to a stress test of Rockport shoes on
Mt. Kilimanjaro next summer.

It appears that they will be selecting candidates from a pool of
respondees based on fitness, interviews, experience.

Any body else get this invitation?

Matt <- mdm24@cas.org

--
_________________________________________________________________________
Matthew D. Marquand - Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, OH 43210
Some say the glass is half full, some half empty. I say it's just too big.
							    George Carlin
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: ka1gt@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (robert.m.atkins)
Subject: Re: reheatable handwarmers
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:25:40 GMT

In article <1go7nuINN2cb@cronkite.Central.Sun.COM>, pstryjew@colsun.Central.Sun.COM (Pete Stryjewski) writes:
> In article <1gnud6INNr3g@moe.ksu.ksu.edu> diverson@phys.ksu.edu (David Iverson) writes:
> >But I'm really curious about these packs that you throw in boiling water to
> >recharge and then they presumably store the energy until you decide to
> >release it.
> >
> >some questions:
> >
> >By what mechanism do they work?
> >How do you work them?
> >How well do they work?
> >How long does it take to recharge them?
> >How long do they take to discharge?
> >Any finite lifetime?
> >Can I make hot-drinks out of the water that I boil the bag in or is this
> >unsafe?
> >etc...
> 
> I have had several of these for a couple of years.  Mine are also my by Prism
> Technologies.  When I got mine they had two varieties, one that "recharged" by
> boiling and the other by microwaving or boiling.  The microwaving one had what
> seemed to be a more durable (and plyable) plastic bag.  We use ours for 
> handwarmers and hot packs.
> 
> The ingredients say "food grade" sodium acetate or something like that, so you
> maybe okay if it leaks.  But I don't know how much it takes to kill a lab rat,
> so check with someone who knows.
> 

Funny you should ask.... The LD50 for oral dose to a rat is 3530mg/kg. If this
were also the dose for a human it would rate as slightly/moderately toxic. 
And yes, it is used as a general purpose food additive!

===============================================================
Bob Atkins  AT&T Bell Labs  email (direct)  att!clockwise!rma
===============================================================

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: garth@leland.Stanford.EDU (Douglas Garth Jensen)
Subject: How to re-waterproof tent floors?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 20:18:14 GMT

A friend and I both have tents which have leaky floors.  The original 
waterproofing layer on the floors has simply worn off.  Our tents are
otherwise fine, and I don't have the money to buy a new one.  I realy 
doubt that Scotch Guard would do much to help the situation.  Does any 
one know of a way to re-waterproof a tent floor?

-Garth (garth@leland.stanford.edu)
From: endecotp@cs.man.ac.uk (Phil Endecott)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Asolo Hiking Boots
Date: 14 Dec 92 14:58:10 GMT

pjones@asl.slb.com writes:

>Does anybody have any experience with Asolo hiking boots,  in
>particular the AFX 530?  It is a medium weight boot with full
>leather uppers and it retails for about $135.  Any comments
>about any Asolo hiking boots will be appreciated.

Yes.  About a year ago I bought a pair of AFX570s for about 100 UKpounds.
My normal problem with boots is comfort rather than performance, and I
chose the AFX570s because they seemed to fit my feet very well (I have a
high instep).  In contrast to some of the other boots I was looking at,
they derived most of the sole stiffness from the green plastic rand / sole
unit, which meant that they could use comparatively flexible leather for
the uppers without sacraficing the stiffness.

I found them excellent for winter walking in snow, but even in quite early
spring with thin-ish socks, my feet were getting too hot.  I wouldn't
recommend them for someone who doesn't have a light-weight boot for summer
use.

One disadvantage is that they don't mate very well with gaiters like Yetis
or Tundras.  I have a pair of Tundras, but they kept slipping off at the
toe.

This summer I took them with me on a trip to the Pamir-Alay mountains in
Central Asia, for 5 weeks.  I didn't get a single blister, they worked well
with my crampons, and gave plenty of support.  However unfortunately, they
did let me down.  The sole of one broke away from the green rand thing.  By
the end of the trip, it was attached at just the toe and the heel, where
the black sole material is joined directly to the uppers.

Although I had taken a lot of sticky tape and sewing materials for mending
clothes, tents, rucksacks etc. I didn't have any superglue for boot
repairs.  I won't forget next time!

I returned the boots to the shop where I bought them, and they have given
me a pair of Zamberlan Mountain Lites in exchange.  I'm not complaining,
because the Zamberlans do have the edge on stiffness and crampon work and
the Tundra gaiters fit much better, but the Asolos were a little more
comfortable.

Don't let my experience put you off buying a pair if you think they're what
you need.  Just buy them from a reputable store who won't quibble if you
take them back, and remember a tube of superglue!

--Phil.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: brooks@ico.isc.com (Chris Brooks)
Subject: Re: book, CADILLAC DESERT
Summary: water, water everywhere, but you better not take any
Keywords: water usage
Organization: Interactive Systems Corp., Boulder CO
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:32:01 GMT

Given my limited understanding of water law, I thought Ag. water usage was 
based on a "use it or lose it" kind of approach (known as "beneficial use").
(This is all kinda hazy and I know it's been modified somewhat, so maybe someone
can tell me if I'm way off).  This style of approach results from an argument
based on if you don't use your ration, then you don't need as much next time.
We'll reassign your unused "shares" to someone else down the road who can use it
As a result, there is clearly no reason to conserve as you may lose water that
you might someday need.  I know this is the case here in Colo.  Ca's is or was
similar but has been modified due to the water sensitivity.  The Ag. sector is
probably covering it's butt with "grandfather clauses" and trying to continue
to use as much as possible so it doesn't get taken away.  I should also say,
that according to an EPA lawyer friend of mine, Ca. is "ahead of the curve" on
water usage; even considering Ag sector usage.  That should give you some idea
as to the state of water law.

Another example: I remember when the central AZ. aqueduct got rolling, So. Cal.
went non-linear since they lost a bunch of water even though Az. and Ca. had
negotiated for the distribution previously.  The crux was Ca. argued that
since Az. hadn't taken its' share for some number of years, it had effectively 
forfeited them.

Out here, water = power.  I would be hard pressed to believe that the water
boards are interested in "equitable distribution" of water.  It ain't what's
right, it's what's the rules.

CBB
From: airey@woof.asd.sgi.com (John Airey)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Hiking in Baja
Date: 17 Dec 1992 23:02:13 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: woof.asd.sgi.com


In article <27960@optima.cs.arizona.edu>, sean@cs.arizona.edu writes:
> I am thinking of going to southern Baja for a week in Janaury. 
> I plan to do some backpacking in the Sierra Del La Victoria 
> area. Any informaiton on trails, water availability and perhaps 
> guides would be appreciated. I will probably end up renting a 
> car (looks like a VW bug at this point) so road condition informaiton 
> would also be nice.
> 
> Also is there anyplace that rents sea kayaks in southern baja?
> 
> 
> Sean O'Malley

 The best reason to go to Baja is to surf and/or fish. 
At least that's why I went there. And it was excellent for that.
The backcountry will be mostly desert.  AAA has maps and info and you can get
mexican car insurance there. As far as I know, paved roads are
pretty much limited to Mexico 1, 3 and 5, everything else is washboard
bumped dirt. So january may be problematic as rain could make the
roads impassable.
There is some crazy book about a guy that walked the length of it. there
is a picture of a bearded geek on the front carrying a gallon jug in each
hand to go along with the backpack. Gnarly. 

 Good luck and post your experiences if you can.
                
john m. airey      airey@asd.sgi.com  (415) 390-5248
                   M/S 7U-550 Silicon Graphics, Advanced Graphics Division
                   2011 N. Shoreline Blvd., Mtn. View, CA 94039
From: drchambe@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Dennis Chamberlin)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: reheatable handwarmers
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:10:40 GMT
Reply-To: drchambe@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Dennis Chamberlin)
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1gnud6INNr3g@moe.ksu.ksu.edu> diverson@phys.ksu.edu (David Iverson) writes:
>But I'm really curious about these packs that you throw in boiling water to
>recharge and then they presumably store the energy until you decide to
>release it.
>
>some questions:
>
>By what mechanism do they work?
>How do you work them?
>How well do they work?
>How long does it take to recharge them?
>How long do they take to discharge?
>Any finite lifetime?
>Can I make hot-drinks out of the water that I boil the bag in or is this
>unsafe?
>etc...
>
I use these occasionally to warm my fingers after riding to work. I believe
the material inside is sodium acetate. Its ready state is liquid, and 
apparently supercools from its melting point down to the ambient temperature.
On minor agitation (there is a little click-disk inside the pack), the stuff
suddenly freezes, and it's fun to watch through the transparent bag. The 
latent heat of fusion is yielded up to warm your hands.  From here there is
no further heat production, it just cools by conduction over about 5 minutes.

The larger sizes the hospitals use for reusable hot packs probably take longer.

The recharging of the hand-size takes about four minutes in boiling water.

I would think two of these would do one boot, or at least help.

Check with a well-adjusted chemist about sodium acetate. The water should be
uncontaminated if the pack is undamaged, but I don't know how you can guarantee
no damage. You may find that this stuff is not real harmful. I vaguely recall
it is used in some sort of food process, possibly a preservative? Obviously, I
am past the point where I don't know what I am talking about.

Manufacturer is Prism Technologies, Chicago.

Limitations: 
After a dozen or so uses, the stuff seems to become unstable. It is likely to
"go off" spontaneously or after insignificant agitation. When it will no longer
dependably remain liquid, you have reached end-of-useful-life.

Mauling in a backpack will trigger it. PAck in a rigid container, like a 
sandwich box.

Can leak if punctured. Probably washable. Don't know about corrosion.
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Stuff Sacks or No Fit Like a Tight Fit
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:11:44 GMT
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi
Originator: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu

After getting my sleeping bag wet while crossing a stream and spending
a few miserable nights in a damp down bag, I decided to get a new
waterproof stuff sack. Figuring the bag would need about 500 cubic 
inches, I got a nice OR brand #2 sack. Did I ever figure it close! It
is all I can do to cram my Sierra Designs bag in far enough to be able
to get a little overlap between the flap and draw closure. I like the 
idea of squashing the sleeping bag into less space in the pack but
I'm concerned that I might have trouble stuffing the bag in the field.
When packed the bag is almost "drum tight."

Is this the right fit for a stuff sack? If the bag gets damp will it
take more room to stuff. Are there any secret tricks to get a down
bag to pack an inch or two farther down? Thanks,
-- 

Donald R. Newcomb                * Life only admits two states: 
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu        * growing and dying. So what,
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet            * if I've put on a little weight?
From: sylvia@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Sylvia Budak)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 16:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Backcountry skis
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

  

   Boy, I really butchered the spelling of the new Kazama ski, its the
Couloir.  Gosh, how embarrassing. 

Sylvia
From: bob.kenyon@freddy.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Bob Kenyon) 
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Your Chain
Date: 11 Dec 92 20:50:00 GMT
Reply-To: bob.kenyon@freddy.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Bob Kenyon) 
Distribution: world
Organization: Freddy's Place BBS - Edmonton, AB - 403-456-4241

To: eugene@amelia.nas.nasa.gov

I'm interested in how your chain operates. If I ask for the following,
do you send it back by email?

 17/ Information about bears

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Bob Kenyon                             FREDDY'S PLACE BBS
Edmonton, AB. Canada                   (403)456-4241

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


 * SLMR 2.1a * All wiyht.  Rho sritched mg kegtops awound?
                                                        
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rkh@chiton.ucsd.edu (Bob Hagg)
Subject: Re: Purchasing equipment
Organization: MPL of SIO at UCSD
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:57:43 GMT

In article <92339.183335RSWANSO@auvm.american.edu> <RSWANSO@auvm.american.edu> writes:
>I am the president of the new American University Outdoor Club.  We are soon
>going to be in need of some new equipment.  Does anyone have any
>recommendations of good places to buy quality gear around the Washington, DC
>area.  I was thinking of REI, EMS, or Hudson Trail Outfitters.  Are there any
>other good shops around here?  We are looking for good quality but competitive
>prices.  Another possibility is trying to buy in bulk or possibly even buying
>wholesale from the producer.  Any advice or expertise would be greatly
>appreciated.  Thanks,
>    ---Reid Swanson               E-mail:  RSwanso@American.edu

Try Appalachian Outfitters in Vienna Va. They carry all the latest backpacking
gear, climbing, xcross country, white water etc. They have low overhead so the
prices were always competitive. I believe they're located on Rt. 123 out of
Tysons corners. 

Its been about 4 yrs since I was there. Let me know if there still around.
  


-- 
----------------------	      *****************	        ---------------------
Bob Hagg					rkh%mpl@ucsd.edu
Marine Physical Lab				(619) 534-5904
Scripps Institute of Oceanography
From: geek@media.mit.edu (Chris Schmandt)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Invitation from Rockport
Keywords: Rockport, Kilamanjaro
Date: 20 Dec 92 02:57:13 GMT
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory

In article <1992Dec15.230425.2793@csc.ti.com> czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon) writes:
>Is their training program supposed to allow acclimatization to 19,340 feet in
>one day?  Amazing!  Can you spell cerebral edema?  I knew you could.

I'm not defending Rockport's one day "assault" on kilimanjaro, but the
reading that I did after getting pulmonary edema in Colorado was that
it usually takes 2-3 days before edema sets in seriously.  In my case,
I ascended from sea level, where I live, to about 12K feet the same
day, and remained near that altitude for 4 nights; my symptoms got
pronounced only on the last night.

But I'm not a doctor nor an expert.

chris
From: geek@media.mit.edu (Chris Schmandt)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: The Nature Library??
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:04:46 GMT
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory

I used to mail order outdoors books for places all over the country
from The Nature Library, in New York.  But today a couple of us
rec.backcountry readers tried to call them, and the number seems to
be disconnected.  If anyone knows something more about them, would
you please post or email?  

thanks,
chris
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dmanke@sanjuan (Dennis Manke)
Subject: Re: Asolo Hiking Boots
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria B.C. CANADA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 07:09:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.210240.19947@tc.fluke.COM> witters@tc.fluke.COM (John Witters) writes:
>
>If things go the way they have in the past, I suspect my Asolos will give up
>the ghost in another year or so, and I'll have to replace them.  Maybe I'll
>try Raichles next time.  Does anyone know if Galibies (sp?) can be bought in
>the USA anymore?  I've heard good reports on them.
>

Thought I'd mention that MEC in Vancouver has on sale Scarpa Eiger's for
$235 Can. Only the Vancouver store I believe.

I picked up a pair a few weeks back. The bottom of the boot is similar to a
plastic boot that will accept step in crampons (no place to leak) and the upper
is leather. Seems like a nice compromise. Shank is plastic with only a little
flex. I've looked a number of different brands & I think if you're after a
leather mountaineering boot, then nothing beats these. Their workmanship and
fit is pretty darn good.

If you're having troubles with the Yukons, then I don't think the Raichles will
be an improvement. As a suggestion, before you treat new boots, you should seal
the welt with something like freesole, or Aqua Seal (the stuff used for neoprene,
not the identically named product used for treating boots). The Aqua Seal might
be better since it's the same product by the same company, but a slightly
different formulation to make it more flexable (it works great on my tele boots).

Dennis,  dmanke@sanjuan.uvic.ca

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang)
Subject: Re: reheatable handwarmers
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:41:18 GMT

In article <1gnud6INNr3g@moe.ksu.ksu.edu> diverson@phys.ksu.edu (David Iverson) writes:
>But I'm really curious about these packs that you throw in boiling water to
>recharge and then they presumably store the energy until you decide to
>release it.

>By what mechanism do they work?

I believe that the chemical is bistable with a small energy hump
between the states.  A little disk inside the packet is "popped" to
kick it out of the high energy state to release heat.

>How do you work them?
>How well do they work?

I remember something like 160F heat for 20mins.  Pretty well
considering how small it is and how hot 160 is.  

>How long does it take to recharge them?

>How long do they take to discharge?
>Any finite lifetime?

>Can I make hot-drinks out of the water that I boil the bag in or is this
>unsafe?

Shouldn't be any problem except for the toe-jam sticking to the
outside.  But when winter camping, ANY protein, carbohydrate, or salt
will do, right?

>My biggest problem is putting cold feet in cold boots, my feet just give up
>the fight.  I have a vision of hopping out of bed, cracking two warming
>packs and stuffing them in my frozen boots and then slipping my tootsies
>into warm (like 70degree) boots after I've eaten and packed.
>
>-David Iverson

andy

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,sci.environment,talk.environment,alt.wolves
From: flag@banco.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Steve Waddell)
Subject: Re: Milankovitch Cycle
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 00:24:39 GMT

In article <dhalliwe.723846509@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca>, userDHAL@mts.ucs.UAlberta.CA (David Halliwell) writes:
|> cvakgaaq@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu writes:
|> >	Finally, most scientists who work directly on the question of global
|> >warming do not believe it is happening.
|> 
|>    They are working on something they don't believe in? 

 Ah, a hint at the real scientific method...write your conclusions first
 then search for data to support it! :) :)

-Steve