HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dgh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Doug Huffer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: ARTIFICIAL TURF: EMBARASSMENT TO THE GAME
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:19:47 GMT
Reply-To: dgh2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <21JUL92.08541720@wums.wustl.edu> peirick_j@wums.wustl.edu writes:
>
>Earlier, IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ryan Robbins) wrote...
>>Why do the Cardinals, the Royals, the Reds, the Pirates, and the
>>Phillies (all non-dome teams) elect to have artificial turf? If a
>>team is not playing in a dome, then it has no business playing on
>>anything but natural grass.
>
>Can't speak for anyone but the Cardinals, but I called them after the football
>team jumped town and asked them if, in view of the fact that Busch is now
>a single sport facility, they would put in some grass.  The vice president
>in charge of cranky fans told me that no, they would not.  He explained that
>since the Cardinals deem themselves a regional team, with fans coming from
>a several hundred mile radius, they could not dissappoint any fans who ventured
>to St. Louis for a game with a rainout.  Artificial turf ensures rainouts will
>be minimized.  It's a bad reason, but it's their story and their sticking to it

That's about the same reason that the Royals give.  Of course they don't 
even have concerts, tractor pulls, and all that other stuff there.  That 
all goes on next door at Arrowhead.  Its kind of ironic that they have 
one of the top grounds keepers in the business working for them too.  
Of course the Royals of old were built for that stadium and turf.  

--
dgh2@quads.uchicago.edu     ||  Official Baseball Rules, 1.04, (Con't #5)  
     It is desirable that the line from home base through the pitcher's
plate to second base shall run East-Norteast.
From Baseballs Official Rules, 1992 edition.  Without permission, of course.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 18:35:08 GMT


In article <1992Jul25.030944.22822@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca>  
91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (roger maynard) writes:
>[stuff deleted]
> Forget about Salazar.  Who would you rather have: Bonds or Puckett?  
> Playing for an underdog Kirby has two rings.  Playing for a favourite Bonds  
> has zip. Since Puckett and Bonds are relatively equal forces on their 
> respective teams they make a good comparison.  Bonds has an edge in 
> individual statistics.  Is he a better player?  The ultimate measure of a 
> player's worth is how much he contributes to his team's quest for the WC.  
> Has Bonds contributed as much as Puckett?  I think this is a tough call. 
> I don't think that statistics are going to help too much in deciding this 
> case.  The stats do tell us that they are both elite players.  
> The stats can't tell us which is better because
> the stats cannot give us a value - zero or otherwise - for their 
> "intangible" contributions.  
>[more stuff deleted]

Well, I'd vote for Bonds. I still think that his 'numbers' indicate
that he's a 'better player' than Puckett and I'd (presumably) be trying to  
win a future World Series. I believe that Bonds numbers are more likely to  
carry over to a championship than Puckett's are (I am including the
'World Series' rings as one of the numbers).
I'm not so sure that you can't get a number for intangibles.
Presumably some sort of confidence interval representing 
'randomness and things I haven't measured with these stats'

john rickert
rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee")
Subject: Re: olympic baseball
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 06:22:03 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico

In article <1992Jul24.173644.27130@tin.monsanto.com> bcschu@skws02.monsanto.com (Brett Schultz) writes:
>Does anyone have the olympic roster and/or the schedule?

I shoulda just posted instead of replying via e-mail to the last guy...

US 1992 Olympic Baseball Team

P   Willie Adams, Stanford, undrafted? (1)
P  *Jeff Alkire, Miami, St. Louis 5
P   Ron Villone, UMass, Seattle 1
P   Darren Dreifort, undrafted
P   Rick Helling, Stanford, Texas 1
P   Daron Kirkreit, UC-Riverside, undrafted
P   B.J. Wallace, Mississippi State, Montreal 1
P   Rick Greene, LSU, Detroit 1
1B *Jason Giambi, Cal ST-LB, Oakland
2B *Chris Wimmer, Wichita STate, San Francisco 8
SS *Nomar Garciaparra, Georgia Tech, Milwaukee 5
3B *Phil Nevin, Cal ST-Fullerton, Houston 1
IF  Craig Wilson, Kansas State, Chicago (AL) 11
LF *Calvin Murray, Texas, San Francisco 1
CF *Jeffrey Hammonds, Stanford, Baltimore 1
RF *Chad McConnell, Creighton, Philadelphia 1
DH *Michael Tucker, Longwood (Va), Kansas City 1
OF  Chris Roberts, Florida State, New York (NL) 1

Schedule...

7/26 vs. Spain
7/27 vs. Taiwan
7/28 vs. Italy
7/29 vs. Cuba
7/31 vs. Puerto Rico
8/1  vs. Dominican Republic
8/2  vs. Japan

8/4 semis
8/5 finals

No games will be televised.

Excuse me, the medal round MAY be televised.



-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) - kbos@carina.unm.edu - I'm not the AntiChrist
I AM a Junior Stathead.  Flame me; it's fun!  I'm a shutmouthed, selfless idiot!
Latest Attempted Compiler of the R.S.BB FAQ - Now Accepting Submissions...(hint)
Have you hugged a Dan Gladden fan today? - Dave Rossing : .456/39/132 at Denver!
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Strike 1 on Commissioner
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:02:26 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <368@sbmsg1.UUCP> acw@sbmsg1.UUCP (Alvin White) writes:
> In article <5117@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  
writes:
> >> What makes more sense Cubbie fans, Atlanta in the NL west or your  
Cubs?
> >> This is really stupid!!!  Waaa  Waaaa
> >
> >Which city is closer to Pittsburgh, New York, Montreal, and the other
> >Eastern cities?
> >
>                                                                     
>                                                                     
>    
> Atlanta


Do you have the mileage figures on that.  Looking at the map the
distance look comprapble.  Of course, it's the White Sox, not
the Cubs, who are really messed up by their division alignment. 
Chicago is reasonably close to the Detroit and even to Cleveland,
yet the latter two are in the East and the White Sox are in the
West.


--
Jim Mann       jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  Stratus Computer
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hymowitz@whatever.cs.jhu.edu (Hymie!)
Subject: Re: ARTIFICIAL TURF: EMBARASSMENT TO THE GAME
Summary: depends on your point of view
Organization: Creative Sensualities dept, Jacquie's House of Underwear
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:09:33 GMT

peirick_j@wums.wustl.edu writes:
>Earlier, IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ryan Robbins) wrote...
>>                                                             If a
>>team is not playing in a dome, then it has no business playing on
>>anything but natural grass.

>                                                Bob Costas responds that
>yes it's true, and it's the beginning, middle, and end of the list of good 
>things about artificial turf. 

i think that opinions of this sort, like those of the dh, are based on
one's point of view.

for example, as a new yorker, and later as a new-yorker-stranded-in-baltimore,
i watched games only on grass (i havent' been to the new stadium yet) and
can't bear to watch baseball on turf.

on the other hand, jacquie's lacrosse team plays on a carpet, and it works
fairly well with the speed of the game.  while watching a game at another
school, ground balls would just kinda dribble and stop, where i'm used to
them flying across the field.

theoretically, someone from houston-post-64 could say the same thing - that
their first baseball games were on turf and dome, they enjoy what it does to
the game, and cant' imagine why the rest of us use a technological antiquity
such as grass and open air.

any takers?

--hymie
hymowitz@cs.jhu.edu                                         hymie@jhuvms.bitnet
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've got an answer.  I'm going to fly away.  What have I got to lose?
--Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rlm7638@tamsun.tamu.edu (Jack McKinney)
Subject: Re: All-Nightmare Teams
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:51:48 GMT

Harold Brooks writes:
>
>                National League  [worst players]
>                  BA      SLG      OBA      AB    RC/27
>HUNDLEY,T    C  .186     .339     .250     177     2.81
>DASCENZO,D  OF  .231     .280     .284     182     2.79   *****
>LEWIS,D     OF  .225     .263     .296     240     2.71
>KING,J      3B  .187     .311     .228     219     2.35
>SALAZAR,L   OF  .203     .275     .244     153     2.27   *****
>VIZCAINO,J  SS  .203     .264     .239     231     2.14   *****
>GALARRAGA,A 1B  .186     .276     .230     156     2.11
>CANDAELE,C  2B  .180     .223     .229     206     1.68
>Totals          .201     .277     .247             2.32
>                         

      I notice three Cubs in this lineup. Cubs have the best (last I
heard) pitching staff, from the ERA standpoint. I a glad to say that
two of these three players are out of their starting lineup for a
while, and the third (Doug Dascenzo) was almost hitting .300 just a
few weeks ago, but he'll be out of the lineup when Sosa gets back.
If these Cubs would start hitting, we might win the division twice in
as many decades.

+----------------------------------------------+--------------------------+
| "Near the Day of Purification, there will be | Jack McKinney            |
|    cobwebs spun back and forth in the sky."  | jmckinney@tamu.edu       |
+-------- -from the Hopi prophecy -------------+--------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mjw@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Michael Wolverton)
Subject: Re: All 6th-best team
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:41:58 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.151938.23661@panix.com> spira@panix.com (Greg Spira) writes:
>Actually, this brings up an interesting question regarding the expansion
>draft - is Texas going to protect Ryan?  I think it's possible they could
>avoid this in order to protect a younger player.  Ryan could announce that
>there's no way he's ever going to pitch for any non-Texas team, and if an
>expansion team selects him, he's retiring.  I tend to think Miami and
>Denver would believe him, and just not select him even if he's available.

One thing you might see is Texas treating this situation the same way
that the LA Lakers treated Kareem Abdul-Jabbar when the NBA expanded.
They left Kareem unprotected, but they made a deal with both expansion
clubs that they'd give a draft pick to whichever team selected a Laker
player, provided that player wasn't Kareem.  In baseball, a late first
round pick might not be good enough, but a medium-good prospect might
be.

Of course, this may be a non-issue since Ryan has hinted at retirement
anyway.  Also, even if he doesn't retire, would he be a free agent at
the end of the season?

-Michael
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Wolverton                       "Is that clear?"
mjw@cs.stanford.edu                     "No, but it's consistent!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: lsmith@cs.umn.edu (Lance "Not Here" Smith)
Subject: Re: All right, let's settle Stathead vs. Intangiblehead FOR GOOD.
Keywords: Duel, Honor, Hot Fudge Lundy, NuKid [tm]. Steerific...
Organization: The Little Satrting Pitchers of the Poor
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 00:28:08 GMT

In article <15621@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Not Just For The Dead Huckabay) writes:

>With this in mind, I propose the following lineup:
>
>		    SP  "Rocket" Roger Lustig
>		    SP  Lance "Looks Like Zane" Smith

(Well, I suppose he could have said I look like Randy Johnson.)

>		    SP  Nelson "Kiss My Purple Ass" Lu

I think Gary has forgotten to include:
 
                    SP  John "Arnold" Palmer

Or is he our travelling secretary?

>Our manager, because of compromising photos, shall be Mr. SDCN
>himself, David "The Lip" Thornley.

Excellent choice. I've heard David's stirring inspirational speeches.
If he can't generate the "winning clubhouse atmosphere" necessary, I
don't know who can.
-- 
  Lance "On Vacation" Smith    | "Upon the corner of the plate
    (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)        |  There hangs a curve ball to be hit;
  More replica World Series    |  I'll smote it ere it reach the mitt."
  rings than David Thornley    |          "The Scottish Player," III. v. 23
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: clmn@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Coleman)
Subject: Re: white sox will take it all (NOT, SIGH!)
Reply-To: clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Department of Economics
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 22:43:32 GMT

In article <BrIn5A.L3@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jcp29389@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (VOLLEYBALL!!!) writes:
>i just finished watching one of the best comebacks of the year.  the sox just
>beat the brewers 5-4 in 12 innings.  the sox were down to their last strike
>(fisk was up with an 0-2 count) and down 3-1.  they proceeded to tie the game
>at 3.  then with the brewers up 4-3 in the 10th, they tie it again.  finally,
>george bell wins it in the 12th (with 2 out) with a single to score raines.
>god damn that was sweet!  they are no doubt going to win it all now.  this is
>the start of a 12 game win streak and they will end up 95-67, 3 games ahead of
>oakland and 5 games ahead of minnesota.  these are my predictions, so flame
>away.  i can't wait to hear it.
>

While I admire the sentiment, this article was, unfortunately, written in
advance of last night's 12 inning debacle.

The Sox have NO late relief.  Many of us have thought Thigpen wasn't the
answer for a long time, but it's beginning to look like Radinsky isn't
either.

Personally, I don't feel safe with anything less than a five run lead going
into the ninth inning.



-- 
Bill Coleman
clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
From: gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Date: 26 Jul 92 20:09:31 GMT
Organization: Somewhere in Hoboken

greg - if you can do that RE:education of stats, it would be helpful,
 i think, for others to read.  something that would HAVE to be
 in there is the randomness effect - that is, that a team which 
 is a .450 team can beat a .600 team, in a 7 game series (or less)
 and NOT have it show that "one team is better than another".
 
also, one criticism?  you were showing in the puckett/salazar
 discussion before about how you can compare them, based on their
 RC/27.  i don't have the actual numbesr in front of me, but
 if salazar is a great hitter versus lefties (he was once - i
 remember strat-o-matic), and he plays ONLY versus that
 side of the place, it's unfair to compare his part time 
 platoon with someone's full time.  so maybe it's
 not a criticism, but a pointing out.

can you believe (anyone) that someone had the gall to mention
 jack morris as a serious candidate for the cy young award - while
 NOT mentioning roger clemens????  i couldn't. it was on 
 wfan late yesterday morning.  and it was one of their
 broadcasters..,mentioned guzman, morris, one of the orioles
 pitchers, i think smiley, and a couple others.  and
 no roger.  wow.

- bob gaj
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Eichhorn for Myers/Ducey (Was Re: American League Roundup)
Keywords: baseball, men's professional
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 07:12:35 GMT

In article <bba-alrupU2lU210ae@clarinet.com> clarinews@clarinet.com (United Press International) writes:

>	The Blue Jays announced after the game that they will add depth to
>their bullpen when they re-acquired right-handed sidearmer Mark Eichhorn
>from the California Angels for catcher Greg Myers and outfielder Rob
>Ducey.

I can't say that the Angels got a steal, because they didn't, but I am
(somewhat) optimistic about this deal.  Eichhorn still pitches very well, but
is 31, and the recent surge by Joe Grahe has made him expendable.  Myers will
likely be the Angels' #1 catcher, despite his offensive (and defensive)
problems this year, since the Angels had to endure Mike "Ed" Fitzgerald and
Ron Tingley this season.  RC/27 for the trio:

Myers		4.15

Fitzgerald	3.72
Tingley		3.27

Myers' defensive problems has been well-documented by the Jays fans this year,
but he likely still has a much stronger throwing arm than Fitzgerald, who
handles the staff well (supposedly) but is a Venus de Milo catcher.

Ducey might get the chance he never got in Toronto to show what he can do, but
although I like him, I can't say that I am too optimistic about his chances,
given that he's 27 already.  I'd rather see Tim Salmon getting the callup
right now.

One good thing about this deal is also that the Abbott rumors are probably
dead.  I don't want to see Abbott going anywhere except for a huge package.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
GO TEAM CHINESE TAIPEI!
GO TEAM USA!	(Hey, I can sit on the fence, can't I?)
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dgh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Doug Huffer)
Subject: Re: luck in baseball
Reply-To: dgh2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 23:29:06 GMT

In article <19734@optima.cs.arizona.edu> dkl@cs.arizona.edu (David K. Lowenthal) writes:
>I have a real problem with some comments made on this newsgroup about
>luck.  I have not read them all, but Ms. Nichols especially continually
>talks about how luck enters in to one run games, world series play, etc.
>
>Well, I do not believe in luck in baseball, because the game is based
>on skill.  I now explain a few scenarios mentioned often:
>
>1) The Twins were lucky to win game 7 because of Smith's baserunning error.
>
>Response: NO, that is not luck.  The Braves played a player who is notorious
>  for doing dumb things.  Part of a player's makeup is his brain.  That
>  makes Smith a poorer player, and the Braves a poorer team overall than
>  they would have been had Smith been a smart player.
>
>2) Intangibles are luck.
>
>Response: NO, that is not luck.  Intangibles are things like managerial
>moves and team drive.  You are telling me that if you took 2 equal teams

[other stuff about intagibles and luck deleted] 

Gee, wasn't Lonnie Smith being touted as a possessor of the intangibles
before last years World Series.  Him being the holder of two rings.  
Why is it so hard to believe that a worse team can win a game in the 
regular season, but not in the post-season.  

I'll tell you what, you tell us *who* has the intagibles right now
and we'll see how well they preform in the WS (if they make it there).
Do the same thing next spring.  If you can pick the WS hero for two 
years running I'll believe you ;-).    

>--dave

--
dgh2@quads.uchicago.edu     ||  Official Baseball Rules,  1.04 (Con't # 10)  
					 The distance between first
base and third base is 127 feet, 3 3/8 inches.  All measurements from 
home base shall be taken from the point where first and third base 
lines intersect 
From Baseballs Official Rules, 1992 edition.  Without permission, of course.
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Date: 24 Jul 92 22:12:35 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <3690@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> rrmst3+@pitt.edu (Roberto R Molinari) writes:
>Just because you can't have first hand knowldege of it doesn't make it okay to
>ignore it IMHO.

If I don't have any way of having any sort of accurate knowledge about it,
then I would be just as well off making things up.  That's the problem.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 04:53:34 GMT

In article <3814@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> rrmst3+@pitt.edu (Roberto R Molinari) writes:
>
>Okay, so maybe the Bonds thing was a bad example, but what about my earlier
>scenario where Frank Thomas breaks Jack McDowell's arm?  Youd didn't address
>that one.

When was the last time *any* player put a teammate on the DL?  (Not
counting foul line drives...)  Admittedly Vaughn and Greenwell had a
tussle last year, but that is a *very* isolated incident, and didn't
really hurt either one.

>I'll admit that there probably isn't enough info on *every* player
>to adjust his stats for attitude, but if there is a case where there is
>sufficient information to make the adjustment, then I don't see how you
>can simply choose to ignore it and claim that you accurately can access a
>player's worth to his team.

Okay.  When Frank Thomas goes on a rampage, slaughtering Ventura,
Bell, and McDowell, *then* will I admit that his attitude is hurting
the team.

I'm prepared to wait on this one...

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
If Plantier goes, I go!				tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mfenster@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (mark andrew fenster)
Subject: Pirate catching
Originator: mfenster@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington IN.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 03:32:03 GMT


Having watched the Braves run run run on the aging, slow-armed 
(-and everything else) battery team of Don Slaught and Bob Walk
Friday night, it dawned on me, slow-witted that I am, that here 
was another problem position for the Bucs.  Lavalliere is getting 
old, and Slaught couldn't even come close to throwing out Sid 
Bream (! ! !) stealing second, one-hopping the ball to the third base
side.
  
Sure Sluggo can hit singles and Spanky can swing his 80 oz. club 
for a respectable batting average for a catcher. But given the 
speed of the Expos and Cardinals (clearly the competition 
for the stretch and future season), as well as the
Braves should they be moved to a geographically correct division, 
shouldn't this be a cause for great concern?  Is there any hope 
in sight?  Should they even protect one or the other for the
draft (I guess they probably should)?


Mark Fenster
mfenster@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Info needed
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 18:47:24 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.173135.26150@encore.com> dtodd@wizard.encore.com (Donald Todd) writes:
>
>A group of co-workers were having a discussion and the topic of Oriental
>Baseball Players came up.  We were wondering if there were any Oriental
>players in MLB.
>
>Someone suggested that Rafael Belliard (SS, for Atlanta) may be Oriental,
>even though his name implies that he may be Hispanic.
>
>Does anyone know what his nationality is?

I don't know about Belliard (Dennis Martinez looks Asian as well), but there
is no Asian-born or Asian-blooded player in MLB right now.  Last year, there
was Don Wakamatsu (Chicago White Sox), who was traded in the offseason to
Los Angeles, and has yet to resurface.  Atlee Hammaker is half-Japanese.
Ron Darling is 1/4-Chinese.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
Committee to Elect Johnny Ray as Angels Second Baseman
Committee to Elect Mike Witt as Angels Ace
Committee to Elect Cookie Rojas as Angels Manager
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)