From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: Aren't IAs closed-minded ? (Re: Parental authority
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 22:09:55 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.041708.24655@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij) writes:
> 
> Most II parents I know understand American culture in their own Indian
> cultural context.  They may be aware of general features of American-ness,
> but it is not an understanding or an appreciation any more than Americans
> understand Japanese culture.  Here, too, is a case of knowing the superficial
> features of a culture without truly understanding it.
> 
> This is not argument for argument's sake.  I really have not come across
> many II parents who understand Americans or what being American is, better
> than their children do.
> 
> I call them II parents because they're more like transplanted Indians in
> America than hyphenated Americans.
> 

You just haven't met enough of II parents. Just as you perceive II parents to 
have a superficial understanding of American culture because they are a mere 
spectator as opposed to participants (although this assumption is also not
necessarily true - many II parents were participants before they became
spectators), one may argue that you have a superficial understanding of II
parents because you have not had them as your parents (except your own 
parents). You have not participated with them in a child-parent relationship.

> There are, of course, exceptions, and I commend them.  

I am glad to see that at least you have not bundled all the II parents in
the rotten category.

> Can you comprehend
> and appreciate what others see in something you are not particularly
> fond of? 

It sure isn't easy, but it is possible.

> If so, you are probably more tolerant and probably understand
> other people better than most.  Can you see why an IA kid may grow
> his hair long?  

A need or desire to identify with a clique, perhaps.

> Why an IA female may like dating non-Indians?  

May be she sees something of value in it. May be she feels more comfortable
dating them. May be she feels less obligated in dating them.
Just recently an IA female confided that she dates Indians but she would
not introduce them to her parents because they may start thinking about
wedding. She however would like her parents to meet her American boyfriend(s).
There is less of a 'wedding' obligation in that. 
It is the 'fear' of wedding or getting into a committment ...

> Why IA's may like American music and dance styles?  

A need to identify with American culture - feel part of America, feel less of
an 'alien'.

> What does a drunk see in his bottle of bourbon?  

Salvation :-)

> What does a hippie see in her crystals and flowery slogans?

A sense of purpose in life.

> Lack of open-mindedness, lack of tolerance, is the feature I am most
> put off by in II people I meet.

Could it be that you just haven't met the right II people ? There are a 
number of open-minded tolerant IIs I have come across. I consider myself
open-minded and tolerant but I may be more of an IA than II.

> 
> >Q.3 Doesn't the child understand the specific context of the decision 
> >better than the parent ? Would the child not make better decision then ?
> >
> >Not necessarily. Child does know about the 'local' context but does not 
> >necessarily understand the 'larger' or 'global' context. Child may not
> >understand all the pros and cons of making a decision because
> >his/her ability to think and analyze situations rationally is not fully 
> >developed. Alternatively s(he) just doesn't have the 'global' data. 
> >
> >A child is subject to temptation. Child may be approached from individuals
> >who may not have the best interests for the child in mind. Child may
> >yield to such approaches because of limited knowledge about the world
> >and consequences of certain actions. A parent by virtue of having
> >dwelled in the world longer may be able to foresee such consequences 
> >and prevent the child from falling in 'traps'.
> 
> Of course; that's a major duty of being a parent.  However, as I stress
> one more time, parents frequently do not have a solid understanding of
> their children, their decisions, this culture, the general context in
> which the child lives.  This is because they are not open-minded enough,
> living in America, to really listen to or understand their children.

You are stereotyping parents.

> You've observed that I'm willing to discuss cross-cultural issues.  

But do you have an open mind towards non-American culture ?
How much do you know about, for example, your own heritage ?
Have you ever bothered to travel to India for a visit ?
Have you ever expressed interest in any non-American culture ?
Have you ever wondered that even with in America there are a multitude
of sub-cultures which are distinctly different ? Do you know,
for example, that the southern California culture is vastly different than
Boston culture which in turn is different than Texas culture ?

> Many of the net.arguments I've had ad infinitum with my parents.  
> They rarely  budge.  

That could be a specific problem with your parents or in the way
you approach them.

It takes two to foul up the things ...

> This is specifically because a feature of Indian culture is the
> conservativeness and lack of tolerance which I abhor.

Indian culture values tolerance and freedom despite whatever you may
believe.  Have you ever wondered how so many religious, social, cultural
and moral beliefs co-exist among 850 million people in India ?
Sure there are occasional fights and tension, but by and large they
have co-existed in relative harmony considering the level of diversity.

> In sum, of COURSE children are children, not all-knowing or fully
> mature.  In the specific Indian-American context, I am pointing out
> major problems which have arisen in IA homes.  I am not the only one who
> feels this way.
> 

I agree that a lot of IA kids are rather sore with their parents.
But why blame parents ? Have you ever thought that this could be due to
the fact that the Indian culture/system they came from is vastly different
than the American culture/system you are growing in ?  Isn't this difference
an EXTERNAL parameter to the PARENT <- - > CHILD interaction ?
Does the PARENT or the CHILD has any CONTROL over it ?

This EXTERNAL PARAMETER does impact both the CHILD as well as the PARENT.
And neither of them have much of a CONTROL over it.

Blaming parents isn't the answer to 'working out a compromise' or
'devising a joint platform' in which both the CHILD and the PARENT feel
comfortable and happy.

To devise this compromise or joint platform, BOTH, the PARENT and the
CHILD need to take interest in each other's culture with an open mind
and try to understand the dynamics and subtlities of the OTHER culture.

I have seen a number of postings here from IAs saying that they would rather
ignore IIs in dating or social interactions. How can then the IAs understand
the Indian culture ? From books which are ancient ? From news media,
which may give lopesided news ? From movies, which depict fiction and unreal
more than the truth ? By observing their own parents, who may not represent
the whole spectrum of Indian culture (but may represent only a tiny bit of it) ?

Who is closed minded here ? Aren't IAs closed minded when they say, they
will not date or socialize with IIs ?

Alok
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian