HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: literature students
Date: 27 Sep 92 14:51:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: hydra.69129
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute

Crawford,

Well, I do read authors in whom I'm passionately interested on my own.  But
I think it's valid to bring them into the classroom as well.  I had a teacher 
last spring who fostered passionate and original discussion.  I want more of 
that.  


-- 
Barclay Elizabeth Blanchard    barclay@rail9000@gatech.edu
"I've been laughed at by some of the funniest people."
--Lissie, Alice Walker's _The Temple of My Familiar_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:14:21 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.185712.17884@cmcl2.nyu.edu> cruz@lab.ultra.nyu.edu (Nancy Cruz) writes:

>I think the point is "who cares?"  It doesn't exactly make for a
>profound read...

I don't think Paglia meant for her Madonna pieces to be "profound reads."


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"Liberty resides in the rights of that person
mnemonic@eff.org| whose views you find most odious."
(617) 864-0665  | 
EFF, Cambridge  |                           --John Stuart Mill
Organization: Doctoral student, History, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Date: Tue,  6 Oct 1992 09:35:32 -0400 
From: Lori Cole <lc1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Douglas Kwitney's _Endless Enemies_ (was Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia)
	<12632@optilink.UUCP>

The author of _Endless Enemies_ is Jonathan Kwitney.

Lori Cole
From: mworley@mathcs.emory.edu (Meg Worley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: literature students
Date: 30 Sep 92 02:51:40 GMT
Organization: Emory University, Dept of Math and CS

> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
 
> >	If Barclay is frustrated by wet-behind-the-ears uni students, 
> >	why doesn't she do the sensible thing and get out and meet the 
> >	people of her calibre ? Travel to Asia, for instance. 
> 
> >Which reminds me. One of the ancient rituals in Australia, well, Western 
> >Australia, is, was, for kids leaving school to take off overseas for a
> >couple of years. It seemed then like an excellent idea that should export
> >itself to the Old and other New Worlds.

Fancy this should come up just now.  Only this morning Brett Loper --
perhaps better known to rab-wits as 16blue@...nz, loquacious on the subject
of Latin American literature -- and his mate left our house for the next
stop on their bum-around-the-US.  

Myself, I carried the ozzie year-away a good bit farther, accounting for my
title as Emory's Oldest Living Sophomore.  I must say, seeing 7 continents
in the interim certainly has cast brighter light on this formal education
business.  Highly recommended for anyone, not that r.a.b. is at all in need
of such advice.

Rage away,

meg



-- 

 Meg Worley 				Internet:  mworley@mathcs.emory.edu
From: ah@dunaad.co.uk (Alan Hunter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Literature of Travel (Was Re: literature students)
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:10:15 GMT
Organization: Johnson Hunter Limited

>
>The final project will be a paper in which we compare our own experience
>in a certain country with another writer's experience in that same
>country.  I'd like to choose India.  Anyone have any suggestions for
>possibly appropriate books that aren't written by Forester or Jabvahl?  (I
>like them, but I've read them already.)

Maybe you should consider taking at look at foreigners travelling in your
home area. 

>Also, any books you can recommend on the whole subject that aren't listed
>above?  Why do people travel, anyway?  I include living overseas for
>periods of time here.  And why does
>the experience clarify and improve some individuals, and destroy others?
>	

I would certainly add Jonathan Raban's book (Old Glory?) based on his travels
down the mississppi.

Alan

-- 
Alan Hunter
Johnson Hunter Ltd
Isle of Islay, Scotland
A.Hunter@dunaad.co.uk          fax: +44-496-2336         voice: +44-496-2286
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
Subject: Re: Golding's _The Spire_ query
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 08:39:29 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Sep25.221110.43350@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> you write:
>Some time ago I read William Golding's _The Spire_.  I want to re-read
>it but I've been told, or read somewhere, that to really grasp what
>he's doing you need a knowledge of cathedral architecture.
>

	I know zero about this work, but *cathedral architecture?*
	Do you mean the medieval Notre Dame type of cathedral with
	lacy light filled vaulted ceiling interiors and exo-skeletal
	flying buttress exteriors?  In any case, I do recall a PBS
	series on the building of a medieval cathedral, and there
	was a companion volume; perhaps this would suit you.  I
	believe the title is simply _Cathedral_.

	And I must ask -- can you give me a two or more line
	description of the novel?  My interest is piqued.

>*- Ken <miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>* :All opinions expressed herein:

Roger Squires
rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jchokey@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Alexander Chokey)
Subject: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 18:28:46 GMT

In article <jyc.717613880@Leland> jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis) writes:
>
>
>   (It is with some interest that I have noted in the course of this
>discussion that conservatives' much-vaunted immunity to trendy humbug
>seems to evaporate when the humbug is on their side of the fence.) 
>

	This is, I think, one of the best things about Paglia-- that she's
continually being lambasted as a conservative, a reactionary, etc.  That is
true, perhaps, in her philosophical position-- in her refusal to go along 
with the academic trends of the 80's and early 90's and insist that everything
is a social construct.  Her disdain (or perhaps, more accurately, open
hostility) to so many academic feminists probably comes from their refusal
to accept as valid the very idea that biology and might actually have
_something_ to do with sex and gender--  that there maybe some difference 
between men and women that aren't socially constructed.  (She would, of 
course, probably maintain that many if not most gender difference, are
products of society rather biology.)  This, and some of the nuttier conclusions
which she draws from her belief that there are, in fact, some very real 
biological differences between men and women has gotten her labelled as an
arch-conservative by so many critics.
	The thing is, however, that so much of what Paglia says and does _is_
so, well, let's say, subversive to any sort of truly conservative agenda.  I
mean, just look at who her heroine is-- Madonna.  Yes, Madonna is a self-
promoting, business-minded, multi-millionaire, but the way in which she has
been challenging American mores (particularly when dealing with race or sex)
can hardly be denied. Paglia does the same thing.  Perhaps some of her views
are seemingly reactionary, but let's face it, she's hardly going to become 
best buddies with the platform committee of the Republican party. Paglia is
unabashedly "pro-sex" in more ways than one.  This may strike a conservative
chord when it comes to talking about gender and other cultural constructions
(by insisting that gender is, at least in part, based on biological sexual
differnces), but in almost every other sphere, her pro-sex attitude is
incredibly radical--  perhaps more radical than anyone since Marcuse.

	--  Jim C. <jchokey@leland.stanford.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: grs@infonode.ingr.com (Gary Smith)
Subject: Re: Books in the time of Love
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:10:24 GMT

In article <9209292103.AA08341@cfdev1.shearson.com> 
mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:

>Anyway, it seems like a good thread.  What books were you reading during the
>start or end of love, where the book was viewed in a different light
>because of what was happening in your life?  And, HEY, I don't want any

Mark, 

Should we write about how reading LOLITA affected our on-going
pedophillic relationships?

;-)
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Literature students
Date: 29 Sep 92 23:35:31 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Society for the Appreciation of Janni Lee Simner

Vijay Samalam writes:
>MICHAEL WISE writes about Hemingway
>
>> How-
>> ever, the style of writing, short, terse, objective, devoid of adjectives,
>> is a style we are taught in an abstract way to value.
>
>I was struck by the above statement. Is it really true ? The average 
>reader, at least judging by the bestseller lists, does not seem to be 
>particularly fond of the lean and spare style.

I'm not very average in anything, let alone reading (I do it), but I
suppose I should heave into view a mention of my current kick.  I've
delving into the wonders of William Morris and Mevrin Peake and E.R.
Eddison and James Branch Cabell, NONE of whom can remotely be described
as having a lean and spare style.

Wonderful writing, them guys did.  

	Larry "In advance of nothing" Hammer
--

LNH@physics.arizona.edu          \  "What can be seen, heard, and learned, 
The insane don't need disclaimers \  this I prize." -- Heraclitus, #13
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: baker@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Andrew Baker)
Subject: Re: Laura Ingalls Wilder
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 04:21:06 GMT

In article <92275.232159MRS110@psuvm.psu.edu> <MRS110@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>About reading it to your kids--I never thought of
>this until it came up in a class of mine, but there are quite disturbing
>parts in "Little House On The Prairie" about American Indians.  about how ma
>smelled their terrible smell, and things of that sort.

LIW said that the Indians were wearing skunk fur, and that they smelled
like skunks; what is disturbing about that?  She also described some
tensions between her family and the Indians (remember they were living
in "Indian country") including an incident in which to avoid trouble the
Ingalls family let the Indians go through the house and help themselves to
food.  I don't have any particular reason to disbelieve this story.
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: The Iron Dream (Was: Re: Anti-Arab racism on the net)
Date: 30 Sep 92 12:58:06 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Sep30.112934.25138@eff.org> mnemonic@eff.org (Mike  
Godwin) writes:
> 
> Actually, I don't know of anyone, Jewish or otherwise, who found  
THE IRON
> DREAM offensive.
> 

You probably should qualify that and say "anyone WHO READ THE BOOK,
Jewish or otherwise, ..."   I believe several groups were 
upset by the idea of the book. Wasn't it banned in Germany for
a while because someone thought it promoted Nazism?

Actually, I think it would probably also offend a number of the
fans of trash epic fantasy and SF (of the type that Spinrad has
elsewhere called "the Emporer of Everything") IF they actually
understood what Spinrad was saying in the novel.

--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
From: max@cs.kun.nl (Max Geerling)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: The Liar -- Stephen Fry
Keywords: fry, liar, question
Date: 29 Sep 92 09:02:11 GMT
Distribution: eunet
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands

Hi, 

Has anybody read The Liar by Stephen Fry yet? If so, is it worth buying it?
Is it in the same style as his TV programs (e.g., A Bit of Fry and Laurie), 
or is it totally different?

Regards, Max Geerling
--
Max Geerling
max@cs.kun.nl
From: mattb@ctron.com (Matt Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: literature students
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:58:55 GMT
Reply-To: mattb@olympus.ctron.com (Matt Brown)
Organization: Cabletron Systems INc.

(Barclay Blanchard) writes:
>(Dani Zweig) writes:
>>What you call "thinking for themselves" is
>>the stage at which, through this experience, they've acquired enough
>>finesse to know when the formulae apply and when they do not.

>But part of what bothers me is that the formulae seem to have come to mean 
>more to many professors and students than fresh or different views of a
>text.  I don't mean that we should analyze literature in a vacuum... and yet
>I think we've gotten stodgy in that we look for the same old symbols over
>and over and the same old books over and over...  I think it's important to
>look at literature in new ways in the classroom.  Some professors do this and
>encourage this.  

>I thin it builds on my frustration with reading mostly dead-white-male authors.
>I want to study (for credit) contemporary works and works from non-traditional
>or non-white-male anyway points of view.  I want to hear what my classmates 
>*really* think, not what they've been taught to think.

Good points, ideas, and discussion on this topic. I've been itching to jump
in, but it has been too interesting to interupt. But anyway...

My own opinion is that the best way to get at the *really think* pov's is to
grab some people and start a reading group. Agree on a book, read a chapter
or so a week, keep some notes, have a few _______ (whatever keeps you
lubricated), have fun.  If you're an undergrad, you'll find a way to work
in what you read and learn somewhere for credit.  It won't seem like work.`
Some of my best undergrad experiences were with either study groups or 
informal reading groups. Undergrads don't do enough of this, while grad 
students do it to survive.

My other point is about professors who take an innovative approach. I was
taking a Chaucer seminar in grad school (only one offered that semester,
and I needed some Chaucer bad) and the prof took a very innovative approach:
he wanted to look at Chaucer's work in the light of modern theories of 
comedy and tragedy.  We did readings in the author and selected theoretical 
works to start. Each of us had some Chaucerian background. Each of us was
completely blown away by the approach. I don't mean amazed or epiphanied.
I mean dazed and confused. What we didn't have was any background in 
comedy/tragedy theory, and mixing while learning is dangerous chemistry.
It took us a while to get beyond theory to thinking, and to get past
conventional Chaucerian criticism.  Whenever we pulled the conventional
stuff in, we got blasted. This was a real gut-wrencher, and the semester
was hell on the nerves. It ended up being one of the most rewarding,
on reflection, but I'm not sure how many of those I could take.

In summary, such courses can be a pivotal experience, but too many 
pivots and you can screw yourself into the ground up to your neck.

Matt
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tom.damm <tom.damm@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Subject: Re: Edward R. Hamilton
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 00:55:17 GMT




>Has anyone had any experience with Edward R. Hamilton Booksellers? I've
>received two catalogs of his, and I think i'll place an order (he carries
>remainders, it seems; all new, mostly hardcovers). Any comments good or bad
>on this vendor would be much appreciated...

I've ordered twice from ERH.  They only charge $3.00 postage, no matter the
number of books you order.

On my first order I completely forgot to include the $3.00, but they sent
my order anyway (and the postage on it came to be $5.98).  I did make up
for it the next time around.

The books are remainders, but all that I've received have been good quality.

- Tom


-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

'We must be greater than God, for we have to undo his unjustice.'
                                                          -- Jules Renard 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: Mr Roberts (was: Re: Books in the time of school)
Organization: Clark University
Date: 6 OCT 92 22:39:41 GMT

wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith) writes:

>Most of the action takes place during World War II aboard the cargo ship
>USS Reluctant, which sails between the South Pacific islands of Ennui and
>Tedium and back again - for years.  Much like being in high school.
>Home, tedium; school, ennui.
>
>Mister Roberts, first officer of the Reluctant, wages a subtle war
>against the inept captain.  He is a hero to Ensign Puliver and the
>champion of the men on board.  Only he brings any meaning to the boredom.

I enjoyed the book in high school too.  Written by Thomas Heggie, or Heggen?
I don't believe he wrote anything else.  Could be seen as a precursor to
the later style of war "comedies" such as "MASH" and "Catch-22", at least
in regards to the portrayal of individualism vs. the military.

The movie, with Henry Fonda as Mr. Roberts, William Powell as the doctor,
and Jack Lemmon as Pulver (and of course Cagney as the evil captain) is
excellent and I've seen it many times.  However, I'm told by my dad that
the Broadway play which preceded the movie was far superior.

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:56:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.074017.27562@leland.Stanford.EDU> jchokey@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Alexander Chokey) writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.033220.4009@eff.org> mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep27.182846.18896@leland.Stanford.EDU> jchokey@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Alexander Chokey) writes:
>>
>>>	This is, I think, one of the best things about Paglia-- that she's
>>>continually being lambasted as a conservative, a reactionary, etc.
>>
>>As Paglia states herself in the current issue of SPY (her letter appears
>>in the letter column), she voted for Jesse Jackson in the '88 primary, and
>>she supports Clinton this year.
>
>	Not that I think you were being malicious or purposefully dissimulative
>but I feel like I should point out that you seem to be taking my statement
>_way_ out of context.  My point basically was that one of the best things
>about Paglia is that she is continually being labelled a conservative/
>reactionary, but that's she is, in fact, quite radical (by American standards,
>that is).

What about my posting makes you think I took your statement out of
context? I understood you to be saying precisely what you say here that
you were saying.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact 
mnemonic@eff.org| of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, 
(617) 864-0665  | both are transformed."
EFF, Cambridge  |                           --Carl Jung 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Shakespeare exits stage left
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 22:41:40 GMT

Mike Godwin writes:

	Mark Taranto writes:

		Francis Muir writes:

			There is a regional aspect to all this. It makes 
			a lot of sense to teach Shakespeare universally 
			in England [where the thread originated] and for
			reasons that I would not expect Americans to 
			understand. It makes no sense at all for Jeff's 
			"little balding bugger" to play anything but a 
			minor role in America. Frankly, there's something 
			slightlu embarrassing about Stratfords and 
			Shakespeare Festivals in places other than England. 
			Almost as silly as Spoleto-by-the-Sea in one of the 
			Carolinas -- I forget which.

		As Francis so aptly proves here, I was wrong the other day.  
		He IS a boring old fart.  Do any of us believe any of what 
		he writes here?

	Well, I believe *Francis* believes what he writes here ... about 
	40 >percent of the time. (Yes, the ambiguity was deliberate.)

Both Mark and Mike are somewhat missing the point. My beliefs are irrelevent
---both to myself and to anyone else. Nor does it matter whether I am right
or wrong---again, a notion that is quite beside the point. We are debating, 
not pleading before some Star Chamber. The real question is am I arguably 
right? Does my position make for good debate?

On another note, how do we like the new leaner meaner starker darker Mark?
I sometimes had a problem keeping my dinner down reading the old Mr Nice
Guy stuff, so for me its an improvement.

								Fido
From: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Subject: Re: Books in the time of school
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Reply-To: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Organization: ICS Dept., UC Irvine
Date: 6 Oct 92 21:55:27 GMT


Hm, there were several.  _Inherit the Wind_ (a play, actually) was
one.  Tolkien's _Lord of the Rings_ was another.  Finally, L. Frank
Baum's Oz books...

--Cindy, into escapist stuff...

--
Cindy Tittle Moore

Internet: tittle@ics.uci.edu       | BITNET: cltittle@uci.bitnet
UUCP:     ...!ucbvax!ucivax!tittle | Usnail: PO Box 4188, Irvine CA, 92716
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams)
Subject: National (i.e: USA) Book Awards Finalists
Originator: rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:36:43 GMT


Courtesy of the Associated Press.  The winners will be announced
on November 18.

Fiction:

    Dorothy Allison, "Bastard out of Carolina"
    Cristina Garcia, "Dreaming in Cuban"
    Edward P. Jones, "Lost in the City" (short stories)
    Cormac McCarthy, "All the Pretty Horses"
    Robert Stone, "Outerbridge Reach"

Non-Fiction:

    Edward L. Ayers, "The Promise of the New South"
    James Gleick, "Genius: The Life and Science of Richard Feynman"
    David McCullough, "Truman"
    Paul Monette, "Becoming a Man: Half a Life Story"
    Garry Wills, "Lincoln at Gettysburg: The Words that Remade America"

Poetry:
    Hayden Carruth, "Collected Shorter Poems, 1946-1991"
    Louise Gluck, "The Wild Iris"
    Susan Mitchell, "Rapture"
    Mary Oliver, "New and Selected Poems"
    Gary Snyder, "No Nature"



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: vks0@bunny.gte.com (Vijay Samalam)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Talk Of The Town
Date: 2 Oct 92 14:09:16 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: GTEL

Mike responding to my criticism of the New Yorker 
is characteristically terse but unaccountably cryptic.
He says :

> But this is the first issue I've
> found readable in a months of Sundays.

Why ???

Regards,
-Vijay

************************************
Vijay K. Samalam        fiat experimentum in    
GTE Laboratories          corpore vili                    
Waltham , MA 02254
e-mail vks0@gte.com INTERNET
************************************
From: kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Lady mystery writers (was Sue Grafton)
Date: 5 Oct 92 19:01:08 GMT
Organization: nope

In article <1992Oct2.143643.11510@meaddata.com> chuckg@meaddata.com (Chuck Greenwald) writes:
...
>
>For those who like a bit of humor in their mysteries, I recommend Joan Hess'
>series set in Maggody, Arkansas.  

If you think the ineffectual bumbling of an inbred town full of
congenital idiots (Our heroine, and perhaps her mother excepted)
is funny, that is.

I think that the only reason half the population of Maggody, AK
hasn't perished in "hunting accidents" is that the other half is
too stupid to arrange for it.

Not that I think such places aren't true to life; there's at
least one such town an hour's drive from here.

-- 
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
uupsi!khazad!kassover	          sharp weapons and dull judges."
kassover@aule-tek.com                   F. Collins
kassover@ra.crd.ge.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books