From: robert@slipknot.rain.com (Robert Reed)
Subject: Re: Wanted: Post election comments on Prop. 9
Reply-To: robert@slipknot.rain.com.UUCP (Robert Reed)
Organization: Home Animation Ltd.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 22:56:56 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.174212.6515@sequent.com> dickwin@sequent.com (Dick Winningstad) writes:
|I am not a Christian fundamentalist. But I voted for Measure 9.

I am glad you were willing to put forth your views, even though I don't agree
with them.  I have read them carefully and I hope you will as carefully
consider the counter arguments to your position when next we have to vote on
such a proposal (because the OCA will make sure there is a next time).

|My reasons for voting were:
|1. The activists of the gay/lesbian community have been exerting much
|pressure to have their lifestyle be considered as a normal alternative
|to a heterosexual one.

Certainly other abused minorities have exerted as much pressure as they could
find to force consideration of their lifestyles as normal.  And it's not simply
gay/lesbian activists who have been part of the movement.

|Recently there have been a number of executive decisions made in government
|(state and local) mandating equality of treatment for homosexuals.  These
|actions are precedent setting for acknowledging homosexuals as a class
|deserving of special treatment.

Equal rights are not special rights.  They don't want to be treated any better
than anyone else.  They just don't want to be treated any worse.
Discrimination in housing, equity in hiring, these are all equal rights issues
that have been raised before in the defense of other minorities.

|These kinds of changes in policy should not have been taken without
|the consent of the governed through the referendum process.

Lincoln freed the slaves with the act of a pen (Emancipation proclamation), and
that clearly was against the consent of the governed south of the Mason-Dixon
line.  Liberty for all has never been a clear cut majority view, as the Civil
War and even our War of Independence have shown.

|2.  I do not believe homosexuality is inherited, but is rather a
|choice in behavior made by the individual.  There may be a genetic
|predisposition to homosexual behavior, but the choice to be a
|homosexual is made by the individual not by nature.  Until evidence is
|presented proving otherwise this is my position.

Yes, there may or may not be a genetic predisposition towards homosexuality,
but that should really not even matter.  Choice of religion is one that every
person can make, yet freedom of religion is protected under our laws.  Choice
of sexual behavior (if it is a choice) is as deeply wrought and pervasive, both
psychologically and philosophically, and any religious choice, and deciding
whether or not one could tolerate discrimination should not be a factor in
either case.

|3. I would much rather have the people that fought Measure 9
|expending their efforts on Measure 9, than working on ways to push
|the expansion of special rights (I know that special rights is a
|catch phrase of the proponents, but I could not come up with a better
|description).

Again I ask, what special rights?  Can you name even a single right desired by
the homosexual community that is any different or better than the rights you
currently enjoy?  I believe the reason that you could not come up with a better
description has nothing to do with how clever you are, but simply that
expression in any other fashion exposes how legitimate those rights are.

|Am I a gay basher?  No.  Do I think we need hate crime legislation?
|No.  There are plenty of laws on the books that if enforced would be
|adequate to deal with the violent people on both sides of this controversy.

I'm not saying you have to respect the homosexual lifestyle or even like them.
There are certainly members of some religious persuasions that I would like to
avoid.  But accepting someone and respecting their civil rights are totally
different concepts.  And currently in Oregon, there is no law that prevents a
landlord evicting someone or an employer firing them based solely on their
sexual preferences. 

|Do we need special affirmative action laws to protect gays from being
|discriminated against? No. We do not need affirmative action laws for anyone.

Anti-discrimination laws and affirmative action laws are two different
beasties.  One says that we're not going to treat you badly and the other says
that we're going to make up for how we've treated you badly in the past.  I
don't believe the homosexual community is in need of affirmative action, which
has mostly to do with jobs, but with organizations like Aryan Nations, and
White Power, and the OCA around, they certainly protection against
discrimination.

|Should the gay lifestyle be treated as a person's own private matter
|with out interference from others, especially the government? Yes.
|This last statement may look contradictory especially in light of 9's
|third paragraph, but the state and local governments are swinging
|toward a progay stance, in my view, now.

Well, you're entitled to your viewpoint, but my conclusion from what I've seen
and heard is that state and local governments are trying to move from the
status quo which, with the bigotry and prejudice that have been expressed
during this campaign, encourages an anti-gay position, to one that is more
gay-neutral.  It is easy to see that some people might perceive this as
movement into the pro-column, and to them I would say, look closely at the
facts and try for a moment to set aside your personal convictions when you do
so.  Think of yourself in their position and see whether the "progay stance" is
merely allowing people to live their lives without the interference of others.
________________________________________________________________________________
Robert Reed			Home Animation Ltd.		503-656-8414
robert@slipknot.rain.com	5686 First Court, West Linn, OR 97068

I got up the other day and everything had been stolen and replaced with an
exact replica.  I couldn't believe it.  I called in my friend and said that
everything had been stolen and replaced with an exact replica.  He said,
"Do I know you?"
--Steve Wright
________________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: Measure 9 feedback
Subject: Re: Wanted: Post election comments on Prop. 9
Reply-To: robert@slipknot.rain.com.UUCP (Robert Reed)
Organization: Home Animation Ltd.