HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ed@amigans.gen.nz (Edward Kitto)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re:OPHIOLATRY/re:serpent
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 10:43:10 GMT+1
Organization: Wanganui Amigans, Wanganui, New Zealand

Eshin-Fun writes:
>...
>And so, it is said, that the Goddess of All Things took Ophion and
>split his sex making it male and female so that each half would
>always be in need of the other, though at times they would resent
>it they would could not ever again multiply less the two sides
>joined as one.

>And then she dismembered Ophion into little pieces as men and women
>and placed them in those myriad of stars to earn from its
>disadvantages that right which would sometime would legitimately
>be restored to rightful ownership of that which Ophion had created.

>Perhaps this is why men and women are ever seeking that other half
>and with nostalgic, and envious eyes they spy the skies knowing in
>their deepest of heart that from out there they once came from.

>Eshin-Fun

I have long wondered the origin of the expression the "other half". This
is it no doubt?
Several years ago I was browsing in a bookstore and came across a book
on the Tarot. There were descriptions of the Major Arcana with
interpretations. The card titled "The Devil" had a description very like
what you write. The card has a man and woman in chains with the devil
between them.
What irks me about all this is that this "feels" right and yet it doesn't
exactly tie in with the scientific paradigm of the origin of the species.
Has anyone wondered to reconcile the disparate viewpoints?
*    

ed@amigans.gen.nz (Edward Kitto)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: Tetragrammaton
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 12:02:41 GMT

mitchell@seas.smu.edu (Utopium Enterprizes) writes:

>However, I was puzzled by Crowley's claim that Yod-He-Vau-He corresponded,
>in order, to Fire-Water-Air-Earth. Puzzled, because I learned that the four
>elements may be described in terms of temperature and humidity: fire being
>hot and dry, water being cold and moist, air being hot and moist, and earth
>being cold and dry. Now, up to this point I equated tempeterature to age and
>humidity to sex. Therefore, Fire was a young male, and therefore corresponded
>to Vav instead of Yod. Water was an old woman, and therefore the first He 
>(which Crowley and I agree upon). Air was a young woman, and corresponded to
>the final He instead of Vav. And Earth was an old man, and so, Yod rather 
>than the final He.

well, the pairing in this traditional reading of tetragrammaton is active male
(fire), active female (water), reactive male (air) and reactive female 
(water). or anyway, that is one way to look at it. there are other, equally
valid ways of arranging the elements in tetragrammaton.finding these, and
findinggood  qabalistic reasons why they are valid is an exercise every (or
most) beginning qabalists do. sort of like figuring out the actual ineffable
Name (what YHVH stands in place of). don't get trapped into rigidity or dogma.

josh
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: == No Subject ==
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:31:33 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana


A very interesting article, I do believe I'll save this one.  However, there
is one detail which I find innacurate and worth correcting.  In the sources
I've read Piggott's _The Druids_, etc., the Druids are clearly an Indo-Aryan
priesthood--parallel to the Brahmins of India.  This means that they are not
primarily descended from a shamanic heritage, but rather, a sacrificial
heritage.  However, the farther west they went, the more they absorbed cultural
standards from the locals.  The Druids, unlike the Brahmins, were not a
hereditory class.  Some of what the absorbed from local groups may have been
more shamanic, even though that was not their primary base.

Thanks for posting it though.


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
From: grimoire@byron.u.washington.edu (John Greer)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: EVIL and "dualism"
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:09:04 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <ogorman.718478320@unix1.tcd.ie> ogorman@unix1.tcd.ie (Lucifuge) writes:
>In <1992Oct5.190037.3353@shearson.com> scarrobi@shearson.com (Steve Carrobis) writes:
>
>>my point was that without the term good the term evil is unnecessary as well as 	with the term evil than good would not be needed ...
>
>> it has to do with the law of opposites ... or Opposing Forces ...
>
>>u cant have one without the other .... 
>
>
>O but you can. Read Catholic theology...evil is not something of itself
>it is not the opposite of good. Rather it is a stunting...a twisted
>version of the true form...I forget the actual argument and words bu
>tthat is the gist of it...I'm *sure* someone out there must have posted
>something along these lines?
>
>Ollie/Lucifuge...


The original of this argument can be found in Plato's philosophy.
I think it's technically called the _privatio boni_ (privation of
good) theory -- the core idea is that evil is simply a lack of some
aspect of perfection.  Thus violence is simply the absence of 
compassion, disease the absence of health, and so forth.

Implicit in this is the idea that both elements of any given
polarity can be good -- so long as they don't lack the perfection
of balance...

The problem with so much of the discussion of evil, here and in
magical circles generally, is that it presupposes the same kind
of dualist assumptions that Christianity has been trying to get
rid of, without much luck, for two thousand years.  There's no
particular reason that evil and good have to be seen as opposing
powers at war, equal and opposite, like the two sides of a game   
of chess; it's simply a cultural bad habit.

If you want a game-derived metaphor, why not borrow one from
the old Norse game of _tafl_?  One player has a king and a set
of pawns, and starts out in the center of the square board; the 
other has only pawns, although more of them, and his/her pieces
start out at the four sides of the board.  The former can be
seen as the Aesir, or whatever other image of the divine powers
of the natural order you prefer; the latter represents the Jotuns,
the titanic powers of chaos and old night.  The gods win if the 
king reaches the edge of the board, symbolically extending his
power to the periphery of being; the giants win if they can put
the king in checkmate.

In this metaphor the powers of good and evil are in conflict, but 
are in no way equal, or even equivalent; evil is simply that 
which good has not yet been able to include within itself.
Qabalists will (I hope) be reminded of the idea of _tikkun_, the 
redemption of all things...including the _Qlippoth_ or powers
of evil.

(Info on _tafl_ is from Nigel Pennick's book _Secret Games of the 
Gods_.  Lousy title, great book.)

-- John Michael Greer
   grimoire@u.washington.edu
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Magickal significance of names written in blood
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:18:00 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1992Oct16.140627.21286@cattnts.canada.ncr.com>, craig@cattnts.canada.ncr.com (Craig Campbell) writes:
> In article <1992Oct13.211638.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:

>>Blood is the life force. By signing something in blood, you are signing your
>>life over to Satan, or marshalling (sp?) your life-power to use in casting a
>>curse.
> 
>>--Semhaza
> 
> What you may or may not be doing will also be strongly tied to your intent.
> Signing your life over to Satan?  Again, even if you beleive in such things,
> I would suspect intent to be required.

Of course. I merely sought to explain how the symbolism of blood in particular,
rather than cranberry juice, might be significant.

--Semhaza
From: wirta@convex1.tcs.tulane.edu (john wirta)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: sumer(was Net-con...or whatever)
Date: 16 Oct 92 00:15:00 GMT
Organization: Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-27070]: convex1.tcs.tulane.edu

If the people out there are really interested in what the bookstore copy of
the N-con has in it.  A place to look for true information about the spirits/
God's/demons you are trying to invoke can be found in Sumerian, Babylonian,
Accadian, or any other texts from the Mesopotamian area around the second
millenium BC.  Enough information has been excavated about these pantheons,
that if you know your magical theory fairly well, you can recreate the
rituals you want to use.  Written by you, they will be safer, and probably
have results more to your liking.  It is important to remember that for
maximum effect, you should understand the mindset of these people, and the Gods
they worshipped.  Calling up anything in ignorance is just foolish, make sure
you really want to be in the same place with the god or spirit when he/she/it
deigns to answer your summons.  I don't recommend the N-con (bookstore version)
to anyone, except to possibly get ideas for rituals.

			Knowledge is more seductive than true power,
				-Enki

--
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: forrie@morwyn.uucp (Forrest Aldrich)
Subject: Magick and locating missing persons
Organization: Vision Graphics
			  Dover, NH
			  USA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 14:56:51 GMT

Recently, there has been a brief thread covering the methods of locating
missing persons.  

Would someone who has done this successfully (or who is adept at this)
contact me, I have some questions...

Thank you.

Forrest

-- 
	   -----------	      Forrest Aldrich	      -----------
	   -------     morwyn!forrie@unhtel.unh.edu	  -------
	   ----						     ----
	   --	     VISION GRAPHICS --	Dover, NH - USA	       --
	   ------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: mitchell@seas.smu.edu (Utopium Enterprizes)
Subject: Tetragrammaton
Organization: Utopium Enterprizes
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 05:09:14 GMT

Got a good question for those of you who have studied the magick of the
Golden Dawn, O.T.O., or A.'.A.'. :

I recently pulled *Magick in Theory and Practice* from slopoke, and have 
printed out the first section... I read Chapter III, "The Formula of the
Tetragrammaton", with combined glee and puzzlement. Glee, because Crowley
describes Yod as the Father, the first He as the Mother, Vau as the Son,
and the final He as the Daughter, who is not only the twin of Vau, but also
the daughter AND BRIDE of Vau. Having read *Holy Blood, Holy Grail* just a
month ago, I had intuited the identity of the final He as it pertains to the
formula, and was thus delighted to see Crowley confirming this.

However, I was puzzled by Crowley's claim that Yod-He-Vau-He corresponded,
in order, to Fire-Water-Air-Earth. Puzzled, because I learned that the four
elements may be described in terms of temperature and humidity: fire being
hot and dry, water being cold and moist, air being hot and moist, and earth
being cold and dry. Now, up to this point I equated tempeterature to age and
humidity to sex. Therefore, Fire was a young male, and therefore corresponded
to Vav instead of Yod. Water was an old woman, and therefore the first He 
(which Crowley and I agree upon). Air was a young woman, and corresponded to
the final He instead of Vav. And Earth was an old man, and so, Yod rather than
the final He.

Now, I understand that this system is rather simplistic. Also, it could be
considered sexist and ageist, if one were applying moral values to the
correspondences I decided upon (which I refuse to do). But it seems to work.
The first time I attempted a truly ambitious ritual -- an exorcism of a site
where a friend of mine was raped years ago -- I used four friends, two young
and two old, two male and two female. And I placed them about me in their 
proper places, with the younger woman in the east (i.e. Air), and so forth.
And this was the first truly effective rital I executed, for my friend not
only became much more light-hearted afterwards, but began to discover who he
truly is. In fact, he discovered he was happily bisexual, which is remarkable
to me, considering he was sodomized at the place we had the ritual.

I guess what I would like to see, is if someone could please explain why
Crowley (or whatever tradition Crowley depended upon for this information)
has Yod as Fire, and so forth. Though I plan to stick with what seems to work
for me, I would like to know so that later on in *Magick in Theory and Prac-
tice* I can understand how he used this version of the formula, and for what
ends.

Could someone explain? Also, I'd welcome any comments on the formula I had
devised, aside from flames. :)

Thanks in advance!

-- 
Utopium Enterprizes - mitchell@seas.smu.edu
"Do not mistake my sympathy for understanding; do not accept my understanding
 as sympathy." -- St. Thomas Laine the Abbreviated
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Magickal significance of names written in blood
Date: 14 Oct 92 01:16:38 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1992Oct13.105231.21703@gdr.bath.ac.uk>, mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf) writes:
> 
> Does anyone out there know the significance of words or especially
> names written in blood?  There's a Slayer (death metal) song which claims
> that the act of writting ones name in blood constitutes selling your
> soul to the devil.   I have also heard rumors that writing someone
> elses name in blood puts a curse on them.  Anybody have any info on this?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> Chris

Blood is the life force. By signing something in blood, you are signing your
life over to Satan, or marshalling (sp?) your life-power to use in casting a
curse.

I hope you aren't learning your magical techniques from Slayer :-)

--Semhaza
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (Hail Eris, All Hail Discordia)
Subject: Re: evil and dualism
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 19:28:47 GMT


In article <ogorman.718478651@unix1.tcd.ie>, ogorman@unix1.tcd.ie (Lucifuge) writes...
>In <1992Oct6.172339.17278@engage.pko.dec.com> stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) writes:
> 
>>Maybe Satan is God on a bad day...  
> 
>Clark Ashton Smith had the idea too. 

"as above, so below" ... know what I mean? :-)

God gets in a bad mood and they slap a different name on Him... 
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Tetragrammaton
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 13:32:56 GMT

mitchell@seas.smu.edu (Utopium Enterprizes) writes:

>However, I was puzzled by Crowley's claim that Yod-He-Vau-He corresponded,
>in order, to Fire-Water-Air-Earth. Puzzled, because I learned that the four
>elements may be described in terms of temperature and humidity: fire being
>hot and dry, water being cold and moist, air being hot and moist, and earth
>being cold and dry. Now, up to this point I equated tempeterature to age and
>humidity to sex. Therefore, Fire was a young male, and therefore corresponded
>to Vav instead of Yod. Water was an old woman, and therefore the first He 
>(which Crowley and I agree upon). Air was a young woman, and corresponded to
>the final He instead of Vav. And Earth was an old man, and so, Yod rather than
>the final He.

Ok, I'm not going to address the Tetragrammaton issue but the elemental system.
You refer to the temperature/humididity system which goes back at least to 
Rennaisance Hermeticism, possibly to Neo-Platonism.  That system did have a
gender pattern, but the gender pattern in the Hermetic version is different
than yours.  The gender pattern goes back to at least Medieval times.  In the
standard geneder pattern, Earth and Water are Feminine and Fire and Air are
Masculine.  So, Hot=Masculine and Cold=Feminine in the system.  Of course,
as josh points out, the important thing is to work out what is best for you.
This is just history to explain *why* A.C. did what he did with these.  BTW,
I believe that this formula was in use by the G.D., rather than something that
Crowley developed, but I am not sure.  (This is why I'm not really saying
anything about the formula itself, just the underlying Elemental system.)


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Subject: Re: Seeking creator....
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:02:55 +0000

In <joshua.717745937@coombs> joshua@coombs.anu.edu.au (Joshua Geller) writes:
>      "PRACTICE RANDOM VIOLENCE AND SENSELESS ACTS OF STUPIDITY"

Didn't know you were running for President as well Josh.

:-)
From: wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: De-linking others.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 18:00:00 EDT
Organization: The Heart of Gold BBS, Lemont PA

dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:

> post sometime.  The short form was that I took my dried wedding bouquet,
> soaked it in rum and torched it.  After it burned down, I took the ashes
> and rum out to the nearest crossroads (it happened to be a day before the
> full moon, not as symbolic as the dark moon would have been but cool enough)
> and poured it out on the street.  Then I looked up at the moon and thought
> about those nine years and had some great insights into the bigger picture
> of what had happened.  It was one of the most effective and helpful rituals

Sounds like a nice piece of work.

This is one of those general forms of 'practical magick' that seems to 
work best-- using ritual to focus attention on your self-experience, to 
'burn karma', borrowing a phrase.

Later, Bill
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: Enemy seeks to put me on trial...what to do?
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
Distribution: alt.magick
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 16:41:47 GMT

billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:

>jwi@world.std.com (Jazzman) writes:
>: HELP!  Someone whom I have not wronged has made false accusations
>: against me.  This person seeks to put me on trial.  Its my word
>: against her's.  I am truly innocent but this person has a 'cause' and
>: will stop at nothing to further this cause.

>: I stand to lose my job, my home, possibly my wife (we have grown ever
>: closer and stronger through this ordeal, the only 'bright' side of
>: this woeful tale).

>: I am very much a 'newbie' to magick and am seeking advice and help for
>: me, my wife, and my family.  What can/should I do?  We have tried
>: talking to this person...no use.

>: Please help!  Time is very short.

>Run, don't walk, to a good lawyer.

and if you don't think that's a magickal act, you have the wrong idea as to
what magick is.

what do you want us to say anyway? jeez.

josh
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Subject: Re: Walking at night
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 23:11:49 +0000

Peggy asks..

'anyone else do this regularly?'

No: But I tried the 'gait of power' running across open country in
the dark. That seems to work ok. Picking your feet up HIGH in broken
country seems to stop you stumbling.


These are all fun ways to stop the total reliance we have on the
visual, and emphasise hearing and touch as well as smell.


Much more fun than pentagrams and incense anyway :-)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Magickal significance of names written in blood
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:50:09 GMT

mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf) writes:
: 
: Does anyone out there know the significance of words or especially
: names written in blood?  There's a Slayer (death metal) song which claims
: that the act of writting ones name in blood constitutes selling your
: soul to the devil.   I have also heard rumors that writing someone
: elses name in blood puts a curse on them.  Anybody have any info on this?

Well, it is a cue to your subconscious that you are serious about what you
are attempting. After all, you are willing to spill a small amount of blood.
Your subconscious might be more convinced if you were willing to cut of a
finger or toe - who knows?

Writing a name in blood does not constitute the selling of anything or putting
a curse on anyone. It may be a belief among some Christian sects, and may 
actually be the intended purpose of some people practicing those particular
varieties of Christianity. However, what matters is your intent. Is the
ritual you are doing meant to curse someone? If so, then anything you do will
probably aid you in creating that curse - including writing the person's name
in blood. If you are attempting to help a person heal themselves, then the
writing might just produce a better bond between the two of you.

Bill
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Magick for emotional turmoil. HELP!!
Date: 10 Oct 92 03:43:50 GMT
	<Bvv6s9.3Cs@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science


In article <Bvv6s9.3Cs@acsu.buffalo.edu> oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu 
(Peggy Brown) writes:

>   In article <1992Oct9.145825.12640@gdr.bath.ac.uk>, mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk 
>(C D Burdorf) writes...

>   >My girlfriend has put me into a tailspin.

>   >Anybody out there got any magick that will help me cope?

>   You might not like this advice, but IMO the most best thing you 
>   can do is agree to the trial basis and tell her you both should 
>   start seeing other people to....

or just tell her to fuck off.

josh
Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.horror.cthulhu,alt.horror
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 10:19:55 -0400 
From: Kendrick Kerwin Chua <kendrick+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: The NET-ronomicon
	<1992Oct16.052532.21425@ringer.cs.utsa.edu>

Repeat:  Because there are so many viewpoints on the N-con, there is no
way we can form one definitive compilation or "history" or consensus. 
Like the abortion debate, everyone is so fixed in their viewpoint that
discussing it is pointless.  This is why we can't discuss it.  Fanatics,
radicals, moderates, science fiction fans, those who don't believe, and
those who have never heard of it can only be annoyed and/or angered by
such a compilation.

Don't take this in the wrong way.  If you limit the input into a Net-con
to strictly Lovecraftian sources, or have a non-standard disclaimer
accompanying the thing, I can see such a work being justified. 
Otherwise, there is too much controversey and conflict on the subject
matter, from a fictional and from a magickal point of view.


Kendrick Kerwin Chua

kc3u+@andrew.cmu.edu    or
kendrick+@CMU.EDU

Cthulhu for President, 1992!
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: mcnair@slab.unt.edu (SEAN MCNAIR)
Subject: re: EVIL and "dualism"
Organization: School of Library & Info Sci, UNT
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 13:11:19 GMT

     Dear Amanda:

      The first letter of the Interlinear Bible is A'ain, not Beth.


                Sean Jeffers Mc Nair
Newsgroups: alt.magick