HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shacham@erg.sri.com (Shacham)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Broker Solicitation
Date: 23 Aug 92 20:02:39 GMT
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park CA.

In article <OXA6U0L@mailgzrz.tu-berlin.de> paul@cs.tu-berlin.de writes:
>shacham@erg.sri.com (Nachum Shacham) writes:
>
>>Does this mean that past and present information is totally useless in
>>indicating future moves of stock value?  That is, is the variation
>>in stock value from today to tomorrow independent from the current stock
>>value and its past variations?  
>>
>>Yet, in other words, is there anyway at all to predict the future to some
>>extent (say, so that you are right more times than wrong?)
>
>If a market is efficient than it's impossible to predict the future in 
>any meaningful way and you aren't able to get consistently above-average
>returns either. No chance, even if your favorite brokerage tells you a
>different story.
>
>The situation looks totally different in an inefficient market. But let's
>face the problem. The party is over, as soon as the inefficiency is
>recognized. To quote Burton Malkiel: "Any regularity in the stock market
>that can be discovered and acted upon profitably is bound to destroy 
>itself."
>
>P Boehm

But doesn't the efficient market model assume that each stock reaches its
optimal value?  That is, there is an objective value to each stock, or in
other words, there is a stock has a value that can be recognized by some
people.  After all, they bid accordingly for that stock.  How does this value
being determined?

By this logic, variations in stock prices occur due to some events that,
when they become known to traders, cause them to change their perception of
the stock's value.  Anyone has any ideas what these events are and who gets
access to that information?

The efficient market theory seems to have a basic flow in assuming that
stock prices are always at their optimal value.  The reason this cannot be
totally true, is that information dissemination and the resulting actions
take time.  It may take only a short time for the adjustment to occur, but
certainly not zero.  This means that you can find bargains, but you have
understand what a real value is and act faster than others.  Here again it
may be interesting to understand how much time it takes for a stock to
reach new value (5 minutes? a day?)

Nachum
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: 18971@rhodes.aero.org
Subject: Re: Discounted Mortgages
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA. USA
Date: 3 Sep 92 12:36:57 PST

In article <504@ssdc.UUCP>, mvacc@ssdc.UUCP (Mike Vaccaro) writes:
> heard a lot of good things about it, and read a couple books on it, but 
> would like to speak with anyone out there who's done it.
> 
> 
>
I did it once, almost got burned big time, but in the end with proper
legal counseling made big bucks! Since then I took a bunch of real estate
courses.  Here in California, there has been at least 2 very big brokerage
houses specialized in discounted mortgages went into the black hole with
a lot of investors' money.  The yield advertised was near 18% backed by
Prime California real estate, total asset managed in the hundred millions.
The moral of these two examples: high return= high risk.  Much of the risk
was not disclosed to investors because investors did not know what to ask.
It's not possible to post here most of the major risks involved in trust deed
investing. Professional advice is recommended!
Quan
From: shaver@convex.com (Dave Shaver)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Charles Givens Organization
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:31:09 GMT
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corp, MPP System Software, Richardson, TX
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Chandra Bajpai) writes:
>The Wall St. Journal ran a front page article about a year ago on how
>Mr. Givens was a fraud,or at least what he claims is not true.

Here's a few more details on that WSJ article.  Note that this is a
reposting of an old article made by someone else.

Like Dr. Nguyen, I feel that the non-investment advice that Givens
provides is pretty basic, yet still useful.  If you have never before
heard the information that Givens presents, it is worth much more than
the $15 cost of his book.  To pay $1K+ to join his organization would
be foolish unless you think you can really save/earn that much in
return.

/\  Dave Shaver
\\  CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, TX
\/  Internet: shaver@convex.com    UUCP:  uunet!convex!shaver

| From misc.invest Wed Sep 18 09:16:12 1991
| From: 18971@rhodes.aero.org
| Newsgroups: misc.invest
| Subject: Re: Book Opinions
| Summary: Charles Givens' books
| Message-ID: <1991Sep17.131027.1@rhodes.aero.org>
| Date: 17 Sep 91 20:10:27 GMT
| 
| [...]
| 
|   Attention Netters:
| 
|   Regarding Charles Givens' "Wealth Without Risk" and "Financial Self-Defense"
|   I urge all of you to read the front page Wall Street Journal article on
|   August 5, 1991, and another article in Forbes magazine in the latest issue,
|   then make your own judgement.
|  
|   For those without access to those articles, the journalists were saying
|   that a lot of statements made by Mr. Givens were found to be untrue,
|   half-true, or unverifiable, especially on his past and wealth.
|  
|   As to earning 20% return from stock, bond or money market without risk,
|   the consensus among the investment pros is "impossible", there has to 
|   be some risk. The small consumers are notorious at bad market timing!
|  
|   Many advices in the Wealth Without Risk book are not really innovative
|   or orginated from Mr. Givens either. Nevertheless, good advice is good
|   advice for those who learn it for the first time. This is where I
|   personally think the value of the book is.
| 
| [...]
|  
|   Dr. Nguyen
From: chenl@cbnewse.cb.att.com (julian.l.chen)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Why TSNG drops so much lately ?
Date: 25 Aug 92 18:37:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

Does anybody knwo why TSNG (Tseng Lab) drops so much lately ? I understand
the general market also drops a lot, but TSNG has losted more than 30% in
the past few weeks.

Thanks !

Julian
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: jaorans@pbhyg.PacBell.COM (Jeff Oransky)
Subject: Re: Printing money
Reply-To: jaorans@PacBell.COM (Jeff Oransky)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:27:34 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.232142.12511@gumby.dsd.trw.com> suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com (Maurice E. Suhre) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.123344.25998@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> cthorne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Charles E Thorne) writes:
>>The Federal Reserve buys back government debt (notes, bills, etc.).  
>
>This is a good chance to ask something I've wondered about.  Where does
>the Fed get its money from?  Does it have an unlimited amount?
>-- 
>Maurice Suhre
>suhre@trwrb.dsd.trw.com

In a way this is true, money is just created when the necessity is seen.  
The Fed has, essentially two ways of creating money.  The first is by
purchasing U.S. securities in over the counter transactions.  In order
to pay for the securities the sellers banks reserve account with the
FED is credited.  Since money has a multiplier effect ($1 added =
something like $3 in money added to the money supply) this can
considerably increase the money supply.  The second way is to lower the
reserve requirements which directly increases the money multiplier
just mentioned.

The process of printing actual cash is relatively insignificant and
merely reflects the treasuries need to replace worn out bills and
to ensure that there is enough bills circulating for the need.  This
need gets less and less all of the time as we tend toward electronic
transactions.  The bulk of the money supply is not in cash but is in
demand and time deposits as well as short term securities.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
! Jeff Oransky             !   "Hope is the thing with feathers ......"      !
! Pacific Bell             !         Woody Allen                             !
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: larryba@polstra.UUCP (Larry Barello)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Printing money
Date: 1 Sep 92 04:53:51 GMT
Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA

This seems like a stupid question, but what the heck.  If the US wanted
to print money to pay off debt (e.g. inflate the debt to irrelevance), 
just how would they go about doing that?  It isn't like there are actual
paper dollars floating around.  Most dollars are just blips in a computer
somewhere (like all of us contributers to misc.invest).  Then there are 
all the USD that are floating around the world.  In just what form does 
this "money" exist? 

Doesn't the US govt. control the money supply via loaning shiny new 
greenbacks (blips or actual) to people?  Isn't the current low interest
rates just that: printing money?

What about the money that I deposit, that then gets loaned to a developer
who pays wages that get deposited that get loaned...  Is each loan, or 
turn of the wheel "new money"?  Isn;t bank regulations one of the techiques
used to control the money supply?

Is the current situation in the US (banks not lending money to people) the
leading cause of the deleaverage of the money supply (not so many turn of 
the wheel) and the deflation I hear about in the investment rags?

So there are several ways to control the amount of blips in the world, 
but just how does a goverment "print" new money, thus causing inflation
to occur?  Have I answered my own question?

Thanks for any enlightenment.
-- 
Larry Barello			uunet!polstra!larryba
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: keith@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Keith Hawkins)
Subject: Re: How is this for a beginner?
Reply-To: keith@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Keith Hawkins)
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)
Distribution: us
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 18:20:06 GMT
Keywords: beginner, new investment

In article <1992Aug28.074002.12302@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>,
rais@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Abdur Rais) writes:
|> I am about to invest some money in mutual funds for the very first
|> time.
|> Although I would probably invest in some aggressive growth fund
|> under normal circumstances, I am under the impression that stock
|> funds
|> might not be the best way to go since they are currently priced
|> fairly
|> high. (Am I totally wrong?)  So, I am thinking of bond funds; in
|> particular,
|> I am considering Scudder Global Income and Benham European
|> Government
|> Bond fund. My knowledge in this area is very limited and so
|> I will certainly appreciate advice from any of you regarding
|> my picks and assumptions.  Thanks in advance.
|> Abdur
|> 


Bond funds will experience value delcines if interest rates turn around.
If
you believe that interest rates have much more falling to do, then bond
funds
would be an option.  Personally, I'm not sure how much more interest
rates
will fall.  The U.S. fiscal policy makers are not worried about
inflation
which is good, but now the value of the dollar has fallen sharply
against
foreign currencies.  It has stablized as of late, but any further
decline
in interest rates would cause the dollar to start falling again.  Thus I
personally don't see much further decline in interest rates unless
foreign
currency rates are lowered as well.  Germany seems to be leading the
resistence toward a lowering of interest rates.  So interest rates may
be stuck where they are for awhile or even trend higher.  This would be
bad for bond funds.

Another option would be to invest in some moderately yielding quality
stocks of companies which seem to be doing fairly well.  Avoid the
stocks which have abnormally high yield because the company is probably
doing poorly and the dividend is out of synch with the performance of
the company.  

For example,  Ford Convertable preferred has a dividend of $4.20 and
recently
traded at $70 for an effective yield of 6%.  This is pretty good in
today's
market.  The effective yield is down to about 5.8% today since the 
stock price has recently risen to $72 5/8.  If we have another sharp 50
drop  
in the market like we had a couple of days ago, this might drop down
again
to around 70 and worth consideration.  The key is the underlying stock
has
some growth potential, so you get a double play with high current
interest
and some growth potential for when you finally cash in the shares down
the road.

-Keith
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Insert your favorite disclaimer here. 
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: muhamk@microsoft.com (Muhammad Karim)
Subject: investing
Date: 31 Aug 92 04:51:54 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Distribution: na
Keywords: invest

I would like some information about investing money in stock.
i am interested in investing $2,000 in stocks but I have never
invested in stocks.  

How should I deal with the stock broker?  Should i go along with their
recommendation or what?  

I would appreciate all the help.  you can email me 
directly at muhamk@microsoft.com
From: McAldon International Inc. <mcaldon@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Date: 03 Sep 92 19:47 PDT
Subject: Re: What happened to Waterhouse (WHO)?
Nf-ID: #R:ago-020992162524@hephaistos.slac:225972463:cdp:1426500254:000:877
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!mcaldon    Sep  3 19:47:00 1992


|[...]
|excellent, and I haven't heard any bad rumors so far. Is the
|stock simply out of favor, or what is going on? Any ideas???
|                                               Ago

Yeah, I've been watching it plummet too.  But most of the brokerages
don't seem to be doing any better, and have lower PEs than WHO.  I
bought some more WHO (unwisely:-() when it was 16, when I found out
they were contemplating offering an account like Dean Witter's AAA 
and Merrill Lynch's CMA.  I expect it might still go lower, at which
time I may compound my idiocy and buy more.  DMcKenzie.
                           
|                        |     "Nobody ever went broke from     |    
|    mcaldon@igc.org     |   underestimating the intelligence   |
|                        | of the American public."  HL Mencken |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
From: jordan@IMSI.COM (Jordan Hayes)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Arbitrage
Date: 25 Aug 92 22:30:39 GMT
Organization: Investment Management Services Inc., NYC

Jeff Lee <jlee@shearson.com> writes:

	The average time window for one to take advantage of an
	arbitrage is around 15 seconds, if there is one at all.

Given a sufficiently stiff interpretation of "equivalent" you might be
right.  However, there are plenty of people who would argue that
arbitrage simply means the buying of one "thing" and selling of another
"thing" at different prices and pocketing the difference in a riskless
way.  You might limit yourself to "thing A" and "thing B" being "the
same instrument on different exchanges," but then you might not have as
much fun.

:-)

/jordan
From: Amiga@cup.portal.com (Philip Barry Kirschner)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Discounted Mortgages
Date: Thu,  3 Sep 92 17:13:03 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Are discounted Mortgages a part of creative financing? Also if are mortgages
granted to handicapped persons on disability?.
From: mincy@think.com (Jeffrey Mincy)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: China stock market
Date: 2 Sep 1992 14:34:16 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: mjolnir.think.com

In article <1992Sep1.193638.8470@uwm.edu> xiaoqing@convex.csd.uwm.edu  writes:
>Dose anyone know if there are any mutual funds in U.S. based on the
>stock market in China. If you know the company's names and phone numbers, 
>please post.

There are three closed end funds: China Fund, Greater China Fund, and
Jardine Fleming China Region Fund.  These funds are just created in the
last few months.  These trade like regular stocks.

A perhaps better way to make a china play is to invest in countries such
as taiwan and hong kong.  I doubt there are any open end funds that
invest primarily in china, but there are several pacific basin funds
that invest in the region.

>China stock market has just been established recently and there are only
>a few companies trading stocks so far. Stocks are now the hottest items in 
>China and are hard to get (there even was riot in Shengzhen). Many poeple think they will get rich real soon
>by buying stocks. However, China stock market probably is the most uncertain
>in the world and the political environment and goverment's economic 
>policy will have dominating effect on the market. But right now it seems
>that China stock market is the most promising and if you can take the risk,
>you might make a much bigger profit than you can expect.

I pretty much agree that the area has lots of potential and risk.  Right 
now there seems (to me of course) to be a little too much money chasing a 
little too few stocks.  The area is too "hot" right now.  
-- 

-- jeff
mincy@think.com
From: saz@apollo.HP.COM (Steven A. Zedeck)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: use of frequent flyer coupons
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:52:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: apollo.BtyMvn.D4r
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

I was just told that if you use a frequent flyer coupon
to get a free flight, you need to declare that as income.
Is this really true ?
Does the gov't really track such things ?
Can you get around this ?

-- 
* Steven A. Zedeck - Hewlett Packard Company, Workstation Systems Division *
* Chelmsford Systems Laboratory                   * Phone #: (508)436-5897 *
* 300 Apollo Drive; Chelmsford, MA 01824          * HP-TELNET:    436-5897 *
* Internet: saz@apollo.hp.com   * UUCP: {decvax, mit-eddie...}!apollo!saz  *
From: jcyu@barney.esl.com (Jeff Yu)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: list of mutual funds?
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:29:23 GMT
Organization: ESL Inc., Sunnyvale, CA

Also check out the August issue of Kiplinger's Personal Finance.  This is 
their annual mutual fund issue and is much more complete than those in
Money or Forbes (which are also good).  I believe US News & World Report
also had something within the last month.


-- 
Jeff Yu					Advanced Systems Laboratory
jeff_yu@smtp.esl.com			ESL Inc.
"The opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of anyone at all."
From: markc@hpldsla.sid.hp.com (Mark Cervarich)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 23:29:49 GMT
Subject: Make 20-38% in Stock Market / year
Organization: HP Scientific Instruments Division - Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: misc.invest

Ok, here's the situation... Last night I was looking in the W.S.J. at the price
of Rockefeller (sp) Properties (NYSE).  I bought some shares a while ago and
the price has dropped on me, but I've held on cuz of the high yield (Now it's
at 17%)  This got me to thinking, "Hey, how many other stocks are out there
with yields greater than 20%?"  I looked on the NYSE, Nasdaq, and American
exchanges and found roughly 10 commodities with yields > 20%, with the
highest yield being around 37%.

Here's my idea:  Buy 100 shares each of 5-6 companies. (Should cost around
$5-7K.  With a yield of greater than 20%, I will make over $1000 a year
in dividends (before taxes and sales commissions.)  I plan on re-evaluating
which stocks I own at least once/quarter.

Is this feasable way to make $$$$$$ (I realize there is risk involved, but
hey, I'm 22 -- I can afford it at my age)

What do the rest of you misc.invest gurus think?

mark

Mark R. Cervarich
mark@hpldsla.sid.hp.com
                          Honda '80 CX500C      Suzuki '86 GS550ES
PLAY LACROSSE
From: mattb@ssc-vax (Matt Baney)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Closed End Funds
Date: 27 Aug 92 14:57:14 GMT
Reply-To: mattb@ssc-vax.boeing.com (Matt Baney)
Organization: Boeing Aerospace & Electronics

In article <1992Aug25.145153.5453@cbfsb.cb.att.com> klur@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (david.s.klur) writes:
>I'm thinking about purchasing some closed end mutual funds (equity)
>which are selling at a discount, and then "hoping" that the
>discount will be reduced (i.e., the price will rise).  Anyone have
>experience in this?  Are shares of closed end mutual funds traded
>on the NYSE and AMEX like other stocks?
>
>Any advice will help!
>

Me too!!  Please post this stuff to the net??  Also the names of
some Closed-End funds??  And maybe some background on what
Closed-End funds are and how they work??

thanks,




-- 
|  Matt Baney         |     Boeing Defense and Space Group   |
| "I can't tolerate   | UUCP:     ..!uw-beaver!ssc-vax!mattb |        
| intolerant people!" | Internet:   mattb@ssc-vax.boeing.com |
|---------------------|--------------------------------------|
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: barrada@infonode.ingr.com (Ahmed Barrada)
Subject: cifra
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:13:58 GMT

Does anyone know the symbol for Cifra ADRs, stock exchange ?

It seems they are not listed in WSJ,  where does one track the daily stock
movement?

Sincerly ,

Ahmed Barrada

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ahmed Barrada
ALB24A , 104H / LR24A
Infrastructure Group / AEC
Intergraph Corp
Huntsville , AL 35894-0001 , USA

Internet: barrada@karam.b24a.ingr.com

205 / 730-8150 w , 205 / 730-8743 f
From: timlee@public.btr.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Handbook of No-Load Mutual Funds
Date: 25 Aug 92 09:12:45 GMT
Reply-To: timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Followup-To: misc.invest
Distribution: usa

otten@quark.umd.edu (Neil Ottenstein) writes:
|I am considering purchasing the absolute best book on mutual fund
|investing.  Sheldon Jacob's book, "The Handbook of No-Load Mutual Funds"
|has been recommended to me as meeting that qualification.  The 12th edition
|for 1992 has just been published.  Has anyone seen this, or previous
|editions.  I'd appreciate your comments on this, as well as other books
|on this topic.

Many libraries have it, and other books, magazine specials, newsletters,
etc., so you can try before you buy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee                 timlee@btr.com  ...!decwrl!btr!timlee
This message comes with no warranty, not even an implied warranty of
fitness for any particular purpose.
From: cs000hf@selway.umt.edu (Hong Fan)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: stock gap between bid and ask price.
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:16:02 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Montana

Hi, everybody:

I come from group comp.windows.x.motif. I am currently dealing with project
related with stock exchange price matching.  I have no other resouces to ask 
about the following question.

For some stock at some time the ask/bid price is:
ask price: 89.00 and sell if bid price higher than 89.00.
bid price: 89+1/2 and buy if ask price lower than 89+1/2. 

I assume their volume are the same. So in this case a price match is possible. 
But how come up with a acceptable price for both ask and bid side.  It is 
getting complicated when I try to take care of everything such as different type
of stock ( market price, not and all etc.) and different order volume.

I appreciate anybody in this business group could help. Please mail me at
cs000hf@selway.umt.edu.

Hong Fan
CS Dept.
U of Montana