From: csfed@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Frank Doss)
Subject: Re: LIFE GOES ON UNTIL YOU DIE
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 17:22:21 GMT

In article <17dldsINNc9t@apollo.ksu.ksu.edu> yohan@apollo.ksu.ksu.edu (Jonathan W Newton) writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug24.145552.28034@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu>, csfed@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Frank Doss) writes:
>>In article <17aqs1INN9h5@shadow.ksu.ksu.edu> yohan@shadow.ksu.ksu.edu (Jonathan W Newton) writes:
>>>
>>>In article <1992Aug24.080325.526@maths.tcd.ie>, djohn@maths.tcd.ie (Derek John) writes:
>>>>
>>>
>>>I agree with your conclusion, but I don't see what there is to fear.
>>
>>Seems to me that the thing to fear about death is the loss of life.
>>Life is all we have.  When I die, I will no longer be able to be with
>>family and friends.  When I die, I will no longer be able to ...
>>
>
>How is this bad or good?  How can nothing (i.e. the time after your death) be bad

The problem is not the time after death.  It's the end of time before
death that's the clencher.  When one loses that which he values to fill
the time during life, the death is no longer to be feared.

>or good.  It just is (or isn't).

From the point of view as someone who is currently living, loss of the
status quo (life) could be considered bad.  The prospect of the loss of
one's own life is not a favorable prospect if one has many things in
life which s/he enjoys.

>>
>>Fear of death does not stem only from a fear of some mythical punishment
>>in the mythical afterlife.  Fear can also grow from a fear of losing
>>what one currently has.
>
>Should someone fear the act of losing something or or should they fear having to
>endure the loss?  Say you know your going to die in an hour, are you going to
>care if someone steals your wallet?  Are you mad because someone stole your
>wallet or because you can't use it anymore?

I think you are looking at this from the point of view of the dead.  Of
course, a non-existant being (a dead human) would not--could not--care
one way or another about being dead.  A live being (me) just wants (as
irrational as it may seem) to live.

As for you wallet analogy...  I do not let some fear of losing my wallet
(or rather the contents thereof) overly change the way I conduct my
life.  I may refrain from leaving it on store counters, flashing the
bills within to strangers, and so on.  However, I do not worry myself
over the possibility that the wallet or its contents may be lost.  I
shall continue to exist in any case.

Now, I do not worry myself over the possibility that I may die.  Because
I cherish the things my life contains (compares to my ID and cash in my
wallet), I take steps to avoid losing my life.  I do not step in front
of big fast things.  I have stopped stepping out of flying aircraft
without a parachute.  These are just minor adjustments to recreation.  I
still enjoy a 1/4 pounder with cheese, seeking thrills, and other things.

A dead me would be beyond caring about what happens to the body.  All
that would remain of me would a slab of nasty meat and the memories of
me held by those who have come in contact with me.  My dreams would be
gone.  My doing would have ceased.

The live me wishes to continue dreaming. The live me wants to continue
doing things.

As for shuddering at the thought of death... what a waste of time.  Time
that could be better spent dreaming and doing.

>>If you have nothing that you cherish in life, then I could see why you
>>would not fear death.

I will continue the above thought.  I once knew a man who had terminal
cancer.  He also cherished his intelligence.  He feared that once his
brain was attacked by the cancer, he would lose his intelligence.  Once 
that was gone, he would be a prisoner in a dank decaying cell.  The day 
he learned the cancer had reached his brain, he gave up and died.  That 
was August 25, 1988.  He lost that which helped him appreciate the fine
things in his life... his wife (my mother), his children (my siblings
and I) and his grand children.  He also lost the ability to learn more.

He no longer could find anything to cherish.  He lost his fear of death.

>
>My point is that if you won't be able to experience that loss, then why would
>you fear that loss.

Again, I say that you are looking at the issue from the point of view of
a dead person.  This point of view is similar to wondering if an oak
chair misses growing acorns.

Someone said that one should rationally look at the fear of death (or
conversely the drive for life).  It has been asserted that a logical
person would not fear that which will come no matter what.

Well, the drive for life can be rationally and logically explained as
well as the urge to reproduce.

>Jon Newton


-- 

Frank Doss 
The above stated words are my opinions and do not reflect the opinions,
attitudes, or policies of my employer or any affilliated organizations.
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