HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: grandliban.gif:  INFO
Organization: Univerity of Oslo, Semitics
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 09:02:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.024401.25245@news.clarkson.edu>
saleham@cauchy.mcs.clarkson.edu.clarkson.edu (Anwar M. Saleh) writes:
>Naji:
>
>what makes you think that the phalangists can order Syrian troops
>in and out as they please?
>
>I repeat what I posted before, the phalangists used to say on their
>radio "lawlaa sooriyyaa lakafartu balarabi waluroobati walurbaan".
>
>alkataa`ib brought Syria into Lebanon to fight and kill fellow Lebanese. 
>
>The problem with alkataa'ib is that they think they are smart and 
>intelegent while Syrians are stupid.
>
>If Lebanon is totaly different from Syria, then what make them think that
>Syria will fight for them and go?
>
>If Lebanon is part of Syria, then what makes them think that Syrians will go. 
>
>They tried to play it with Syria, Israel, Iraq, France
>and they never succeeded for one reason. They wanted to play it 
>against their own people. 


Anwar!
Do you suppose that Al-Kataa'ib represent the Lebanese!

THat is if your statement about asking the Syrians in and out are true.

Naji is right, if any part of Lebanon is to become part of Syria (remember that
Syria only existed when France created it and not before as many falsly
belive!) then it is their choice.

It is not the Kataa'b nor Kamal Joumblat nor Frangieh nor HIzbollah who
decides.

>Anwar Saleh
>



elie wardini
From: elie@sensors.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: The BBA
Date: 31 Jul 92 09:29:23 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


From CLAO:

The Beirut Bar Association released a statement yesterday accusing the 
Hrawi regime of extrajudicial arrests. The world Front for the Liberation
of Lebanon issued a press release identifying the names of supporters 
of General Aoun who are being held by the Syrian-imposed authorities.
In an interview with the daily al-Hayat, General Aoun said that the 
Hrawi regime had proceeded to arbitrary arrests of around 100 youths 
(in connection with last Thursday's strike) 16 of whom are still in prison.



--

                                 ________
________________________________/--------\______________________________________
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (...NADINE...)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Issam Abou Jamra speaks out.
Date: 22 Jul 92 11:09:58 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


From: CLAO via Leb-Net
----------------------

In his first interview in exile, Minister Issam Abou Jamra said that the call 
for holding parliamentary elections in Lebanon before 1994 by Syria and its
puppet regime amount to an acknowledgement on their part of the illegitimacy
of the present parliament. (1994 is the date set by the Hrawi regime for
the expiration of the term of the present parliament.)

Abou Jamra added that all the present parliamentarians are illegitimate and
do not represent the Lebanese. Everything that emanates from them is 
unconstitutional. For this reason, it is necessary to elect a new
parliament and a new president in a free atmosphere.

Abou Jamra said that the solution would be: First, the withdrawal of all
foreign armies from Lebanon; second, the restoration of the Aoun Cabinet
with its six members; third, the holding of parliamentary elections within
three months after the Aoun cabinet has been restored. None of the Aoun
cabinet members would have the right to run for election; fourth, the 
elections would be supervised by the Lebanese army and international 
observers; and fifth, the new parliament would elect a new president.
Then, the military cabinet would resign, and the new parliament will review
all the laws that were passed since November 4, 1989.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: (Elie Dib Wardini) eliedw@hedda.uio.no
Subject: Re: Lebanese dialect standardized ...
Organization: UiO
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 08:58:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.161156.15995@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>
saghir@eecg.toronto.edu (Mazen Saghir) writes:
>a very popular way of writing the Arabic letter "Ayn" as in eye is to use the 
>ASCII symbol "3" since it looks like the Arabic "Ayn" flipped vertically!!! :)
>This has been used alot on LebChat and is attributed to Moni (Moni if you're 
>reading this, hello, it's been a long time) :-)
>
>Using "Moni's 3ayn" is much easier than Elie's "c", probably because of the
>tendency to read it as "k" the first time one sees it. Just my $0.02's worth.
>
>-- Mazen
>
>

Yes Moni likes this lettre. Some scholars transcribe the "c"yn with an actual
"Arabic" "c"ayn which as Mazen says looks like an inverted "3".

True that this character could be a good choice, but it is already used for the
number 3.

That is why I would prefer the "c" even if it takes some learning to get used
to. (So would the "3" sign by the way :)   )


In answer to Naji (about use of Arabic alphabet we could take this up to
discussion, but now I have an appointment!  :)   )


elie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: jrad@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (ahmad.m.jrad)
Subject: Re: Brotherhood ... one more time
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:21:39 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.190526.5098@ulrik.uio.no>, eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:
> In article <NMOUAWAD.92Jul28120708@math.waterloo.edu> nmouawad@waterloo.edu
> (Naji Mouawad) writes:
> >
> >
> >Hello Ayman,
> >
> >
> > My camp is that of the victims. They are my true brothers and
> >friends.
> >
> >naji.
> 
> 
> the issue of brotherhood is not a light one.
> 
> What does brotherhood entail?
> 
> Let me take an example:
> The Swedes and the Norwegians (who by the way very rarely speak of brotherhood)
 STUFF DELETED 
> 
> elie wardini

Good article Elie. Your eloquence is hard to match.

You forget one major difference though in comparing us to Sweden and
Norway. We are Muslims (most of us anyway), they are not. We are
exhorted in the Qur'an to unite by God almighty himself. We must
unite or at least try to, otherwise we may just all be united in
the flames of Hell. I bet if the USA wanted to add Lebanon as one
of its states, then many Lebanese who oppose unification with Syria
will be in favor of that. Well let us remember that even the USA was
weak and divided at one time in its history. Success requires hard
work and sacrifice.

Give me one good reason the Lebanese Muslim should not be in favor
of uniting with Syria. You see Elie, the Lebanese Muslims have nothing
to lose, they are economically dominated by their Christian brothers
and politically oppressed by their Syrian brothers. What is left
to lose? 

Ahmad
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: medawar@prism.poly.edu (Bassem Medawar)
Subject: Lobbying
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 19:42:39 GMT

Following are addresses where you can send lobbying letters to.
 
bassem
 
 
White house:
President of the United States of America, 
George Herbert Walker Bush
The White House
Washington DC, 20500 
Tel: (202) 456-1414 
Fax: (202) 456-2461
 
The State dept:
The Honorable Secretary James A. Baker III,
The Department of State
Washington DC 20520
Tel: (202) 647-2492
Fax: (202) 647-0244
 
The honorable 
Edward P. Djerejian 
Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs,
The Department of State
2201 C st. NW, room 6242, 
Washington DC 20520
Tel: (202) 647-1018
Fax: (202) 647-7720
 
UN:
His Excellency Boutros Ghali,
Secretary-General of the United Nations,
United Nation, NY 10017
Tel: (212) 963-5012
Fax: (212) 963-4879  (different from Boudi's)
 
Congress:
The Honorable Lee H. Hamilton
Chairmam Subcommittee on Europe and the Middle East
Committee on Foreign Affairs
U. S. House of Representatives
B 359 Rayvurn Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
202-225-3345
ATT: Mr. Michael H. Van Dusen (Staff Director)
 
Senate:
Senator Jesse Helms
Committe on Foreign Relations
SD-447 Dirksen Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
202-224-4651
 
 
Al-Hawadeth International S.A.
c/o Al-Hawadess (UK) Ltd.
183-185 Askew Rd., London W.12 9AX
Tel (081) 740 4500
Telex 261601 HAWA G.
Fax: LONDON (081) 749 9781 G/2/3
 
Al Hayat
Kensington Centre
66 Hammersmith Road
London, W14 8Yt
United Kingdom
Telephone (Editorial) 071-6029988
Fax 071-3714215/071-3714225
Telex: 925746
 
 
The New York Times Company
229 West 43d St.,
N.Y., N.Y. 10036
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: saleham@right.clarkson.edu (Anwar M. Saleh)
Subject: Re: slaves.gif: INFO
Reply-To: saleham@right.clarkson.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 07:53:52 GMT


elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad) writes:
>
>
> Look, I am sure members of my community also thought (in the 30s) that girls
> should get married at 14, and maybe its better for the boys to learn than for
> the girls to. I also believe that the Saudis were involved in slavery. Heck
> I am sure one could write a nice essay about early Lebanese immigration.
> Some of what I posted is true, (given the fact that a picture is worth
> a thousand words and that's probably what is bothering you).
 
  You are wrong. Send me your picture to show you that you are a
  murderer, a thief a rapist or any thing you like.  
   
  In hollywood, they can show you commiting a crime on vedio. 
   
> The difference between how the past about slavery is approached here and
> in the Arab world, is that you are taught is school and shown pictures how
> africans were sold at auction while I am sure arab textbooks don't show that.
 
  Because in 1860 the population of the USA was at 32 million with 4
  million slaves (owned by whites). This means 1/8 of the population 
  were slaves. It never been the case in other parts of the world in 
  modern history. You talk about slaves in Sadia Arabia in the 30's  
  with high rise buildings... and all of that before the discovery of  
  oil. I saw Saudis in the 40's asking for sadaqah from the pilgrims 
  in Mecca. You mean those were the slave owners?
   
> (at least not while I was in Lebanon). A lot of the stuff is that book
> is pure BS. (I'll post some of it later).
> Take all my postings at face value, that's it. You're more than welcome
> to followup on the posting, but please STOP ATTACKING ME.
>
> The Arabic culture does enough negative publicity about itself.
 
  Each culture does. The concept of negative and positive is relative. 
  It is not absolute. That is why you should consider other cultures 
  to appreciate the Arabic culture. When I mentioned the homeless 
  in this country, you did not understand.  
 
> Besides, your statements makes an irrefutable statement that my existence
> on this planet has its sole purpose to harm the arabic culture. :-)
>
> I am not a typical Arab, nor am I a typical westerner. I am the best
> of both with middle eastern family values. (I am starting to sound like
> Dan Quayle) :-)
>
  
  :-) but you mean it. I've seen many Arabs who associate themselves to  
  the west when it comes to money and advanced technology and to the
  Arabic culture when it comes to family and the parades of 300,000
  homosexuals in San Fransisco and 200,000 in NYC alone. Or when it  
  comes to homless, drugs and crimes.  
   
> Veni, Vidi, Vici :-) "spelling may be wrong"
>
> Elie (camel jockey) Mourad.
> (Lighten up guys)
> (El walad walad, wlaw hakam balad) :-)  <--- special for hani.
  
  Anwar Saleh
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: oueichek@ngulu (Ibaa Oueichek)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: jokes
Date: 22 Jul 92 13:31:52 GMT
Organization: IMAG, University of Grenoble, France
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

masri@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
: 
: Please don't start taking the joke thing so seriously.  When I requested
: jokes I didn't expect to start an argument with regard to jokes about
: Syrians vs. jokes about Lebanese.  Some people are reasonable and realize
: that they're only jokes while others take offense---lighten up!!!

 So i'm not reasonable ?. I should take offense here (Insert a BIG smiley).
: 
: Besides, it is true everywhere that you make jokes about your neighbors.
: I grew up in Maine so all the jokes (some of the same I've read here) were
: about Canadians.  Now I live in Boston and the jokes are all about Irish or
: Italian immigrants.  If you live in New York the jokes are about people from
: New Jersey, etc., etc.  AND THEY ARE THE VERY SAME JOKES IN EACH INSTANCE.
: Likewise, when I was in Egypt (Cairo) all the jokes were about Egyptians
: from anywhere outside of Cairo.  I imagine the jokes in the villages were
: about the Cairenes.
: 
: Bottom line:  It is human nature to make jokes about your neighbors.

  Yes, but when the neighbours are flamed regularly on this forum, and when
the joke is full of stereotypes then it's not funny anymore. I've appreciated
several "Humsi" jokes because they were really innocent and had the spirit
you described. But this one (especially the "beloved Syria"), excusez-moi,
moi pas apprecier les moqueries, surtout lorsque c'est de nous qu'on se
moque.
: 
: Moral of the story: Keep posting funny jokes --- they lighten up our days!
 I agree, but i hope you understand that some jokes may not sound funny for
some people (and i hope people will keep posting FUNNY jokes).

 BTW, while we are speaking about humour, it seems that Adel Imam, one of the
greatest humourists in the Arab world is on the list of "kafirs that must be
killed" of an Egyptian organization (likely the Muslim brotherhood). I read
that in "Al Majallah" yesterday. Makes me wonder about the consequences of
a state where such bozos are in power, no Umm Kulthum, no Fairuz, no Ziad
(maybe this one will be liquitated in his turn) no Adel Imam, maybe they'll
ban Arak also, can you imagine Lebanon (or Syria) without Arak ?. U.S.A without
McDonald will make more sens.


--
Sham(u) ya tha (s)seif(u) lam yaghib(i) | Ibaa Oueichek. ouicheck@imag.imag.fr
    Ya jamal(al) majd(i) fi(l) kutub(i) | LABORATOIRE 	BULL-IMAG
Kablak(i) (t)tareekh(u) fi thulmaten    | Grenoble. 
    Baadak(i) staula ala (sh)shuhub(i)  |
					
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: medawar@prism.poly.edu (Bassem Medawar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: European Parliament and the Lebanese legislative elections
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:28:57 GMT
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York

In article <1992Jul28.192621.5874@ulrik.uio.no> eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.151735.19053@prism.poly.edu> medawar@prism.poly.edu
>(Bassem Medawar) writes:
>
>
>>To know what the facts
>>are: that Lebanon was one time part of a Syrian province in the Automan
>>Empire, that France cut out "Le Grand Liban" from that Syrian province,
>>that all Syrian governments since then has resisted Lebanon's
>>independence (as I may I have done if I were in there place), that the >Assad
>regime is strong enough to do something about it.
>
>is this a fact? when did the Ottoman empire have a "Syrian" province?
>
>When was Lebanon part of this provnince?
>
>Ah bilaad al-s^aam?

Elie.. I don't wish to split hairs with you.  I am not a historian.  My
knowledge of history as a school boy is that for some periods of time the
coastal cities and the Biqaa@, at least,  belonged to the wilaayat ash-shaam.  
Mount Lebanon was not easily penetrable to the Ottoman armies so it enjoyed
some form of self rule going through the emirs (notably Fakher-d-diin).
France gave the biqaa@ valley to "Le Grand Liban" to prevent another
famine from happening like the one which happened during WWI.  My grand
mother lived through the famine and told me horror stories about it.  

The point I am making is that the Syrians may have a justification for
their demand.  To me this is bull.  But I am not a Syrian.

[..]
>elie wardini

bassem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: Elie Dib Wardini (eliedw@ulrik.uio.no)
Subject: Re: grandliban.gif:  INFO
Organization: Univerity of Oslo, Semitics
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 08:57:56 GMT

In article <6rR-za_@engin.umich.edu> hani@pepper.engin.umich.edu (Hani
Abinassif) writes:
>
>
>Before we talk about how bad other regimes are, I wish some house
>reforms took place when Kamal Jumbulat called for it.  It was the
>same current school (namely "AL-Maronia Alsiasia") who rebuffed
>peacefully or militarly all programs of reforms. 

Here are some quotes with sources:

1)
	"The late General Chehab, [president 1958-64] , recognized explicitly the need
for political and administrative modernization  Among his staunchest supporters
were Kamal Jumblat s Progressive Socialist party , and the Kata ib party
(Phalanges) of Pierre Gemayel  At that time, as John Entiles has shown, an
important part of the Kata ib leadership was committed to modernizing the
Lebanese state in hopes of forestalling further social problems which would in
time threaten Lebanon s national cohesion. Modernization of the state was
something which important components of conservative Maronite and progressive
non-Maronite opinion could agree about, even though their respective national
identity orientations remained fundamentally different."

from: Michael Hudson, Arab Politics, a Search for Legitimacy; New Haven &
London, Yales University Press, 1979. "Lebanon", p.291

2)
	"Like the Shihabists, the Phalangists were committed to the reform and
modernization of Lebanon  Gemayel did not oppose Shihab s [the same as the
above mentioned Chehab] candidacy [for the 1970-76 presidency], and even openly
declared his support for him. Besides the close friendship between the two,
Gemayel was convinced that Shihab should be enabled to continue his policy of
modernizing Lebanon."

from: Meir Zamir, Middle Eastern Studies, "The Lebanese Presidential Elections
of 1970 and their Impact on the Civil War of 1975-1976"; Vol.16 N 1, January
1980, pp.54,55.



>-Hani


elie wardini
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: The pathetic Mr. Solh
Date: 30 Jul 92 23:37:54 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


From CLAO

During a press conference in Paris, the Syrian-imposed premier Rashid
Solh was asked about his opinion on a statement made by Abdelhalim 
Khaddam that Syria's troops will not withdraw in September, Solh answered
that he did not see that press report and does not know what's in it.
He requested from the journalists to give him a copy if they have it.
Mr. Solh can get a copy by buying the July 16 issue of L'Orient Le Jour.

Israeli warplanes bombed today Hezballah targets in localities of Jabal
Safi and Kafra in southern Lebanon.

Finally, the dollar closed in Beirut at 2,200 Lebanese pounds. A sharp 
increase from yesterday's close.
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (...NADINE...)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: sarba.gif: INFO
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:57:16 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


Caption

"Its arched roof protects the bazaar from both sun and rain"

This narrow beautifully arched alleyway is the shopping center of
Sarba, a little town of Lebanon. All is still and quiet for the market
is over for the day, and the cheerful merchant in the foreground is taking
the opportunity to rest. Seldom will the rubbish be cleared away, as
Orientals are not troubled with the Western desire for tidiness. 

(I guess its time for my yearly shower :-))
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Solh is a real puppet.
Date: 30 Jul 92 23:14:49 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


In an interview with Le Monde (July 28), the Syrian-imposed
premier Rashid Sold rejected the idea that international observers
could monitor the general elections. A small group of exiled 
Lebanese demonstrated outside the French foreign 
ministry during the Dumas-Solh meeting with banners saying:
"Yes to sovereignty. No to phoney elections. No to occupation."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: petrak@watson.ibm.com (Raja Petrakian)
Subject: Re: slaves.gif: INFO
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 21:54:48 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <Jul27.185829.72653@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, bh437292@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Basil Hamdan) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul26.021955.14741@njitgw.njit.edu>,
|> elie@sensors.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad) writes:
|> 
|> > I repeat one more time.
|> > The INFOs are not necessarily my views nor are they my words.
|> > They reflect how the West (in particular the USA) viewed the Middle
|> > East in the 1930s....
|>  
|> 
|> Fine I agree with you that the west had a misconception for the Middle-East
|> in the 1930's and probably still does, but why promote it ?  
|> If your aim is to criticize the West's distorted view of Arabs, then you could
|> (should?) have included a disclaimer clearly stating that this caption does
|> not your reflect opinion of how Arabs views Blacks.
|> 
|> 
|> > Gee.
|> > Elie.
|> 
|> Basil


Elie,

I urge you to stop posting your INFOs.  They are really provocative.
I sense that they are causing s.c.l. to become filled with hatred.
I am not sure why you are posting them, they don't provide any added
value in terms of information.  They just bring back ugly images from a
past where the West constantly tried to portray the Near East, Christians
and Muslims alike, as backward to better control it.  Previously,
I had found many of your articles to be informative and I appreciated them
for their content finding myself agreeing with you at times, and 
disagreeing at others.  Now I find myself doubting your intentions.

Raja
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: schoolboys.gif: INFO
Organization: Univerity of Oslo, Semitics
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 09:15:50 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.024845.8473@prism.poly.edu> medawar@prism.poly.edu
(Bassem Medawar) writes:
>>Only the boys go to school in Arabia, since, according to strict Mohammedan
>>teaching, it would be a waste of time to educate girls, who spend their 
>>lives attending to household affairs. In most Arab schools, however, the
>>boys only learn to read the Koran, their holy book, and to recite long 
>>passages of it from memory. Modern learning and even the scientific 
>>knowledge possessed by the Saracens, their forefathers, are considered to
>>be wicked. The cane plays as important a part in Arabian education as it
>>did a few years ago in this country. (meaning USA) 
>
>I don't know whether you are quoting something or making it up.  Either way,
>your posting it is to approve of it:
>
>HATE Muslims
>HATE Arabs
>HATE Muslims
>HATE Arabs
>HATE HATE HATE HATE..
>
>Don't you have something else to do than to hate?
>
>We're moving into the 21st century and your still left in the dark ages
>hating Arabs and Muslims.  Wake up.
>
>FYI in Mar-Elias Btina, as a student, I used to get hit with a cane every 
>week for refusing to memorise poesie.
>
>If you want your Muslim compatriots to be with you to liberate our country
>from usurperers, start by respecting their believes, but I guess your mind is 
>already closed.  I feel pity for you.  May God save you from your ignorance.
>
>bassem
>
>


It is important to note that the statement (I suppose Ironically) quoted by
Elie M. would be regarded by most scholars as nonesence.

To start with the term Muhammedan is not used except in un-scholarly and
usually ignorant circles. Worse yet is the therm: Saracens. It is completely a
Western invention when it is applyied to Arabs.

The knowledge that was possessed by the forefathers of the Saracens has
contibuted very much to the education and enhancement of "European" knowledge
and renaissance. They are by no means wicked, even if one would object at some
aspects of it. Having said that, there were/ are many aspects that one can
object to in European education. THis written in the 30's would be at a time
when most European schools followed the same system of hitting as a punishment!


Bass Ya Bassem, please leave Mar Elias Btina alone! :)



elie wardini
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon