HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: koehnema@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann)
Subject: JJ (was Re: YATR (Yet Another Trade Rumor))
Followup-To: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Reply-To: koehnema@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann)
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:48:18 GMT

In article <TOMA.93Jan10124137@db.TC.Cornell.EDU> toma@db.TC.Cornell.EDU (Rory Toma) writes:
>     I'm generally the last guy on the net to encourage this sort of
>     rumor, but this one comes from reliable enough a source to be worth
>     reporting:  It seems the Phoenix Suns have stated that they have
>     been talking with Dallas regarding a possible trade of Negele
>     Knight, Cedric Ceballos, and Jerrod Mustaf for the rights to Jimmy
>     Jackson.
>Who is Jimmy Jackson? He can't be worth getting rid of Knight and Ceballos.

I don't know - is the #4 pick (4th, right?) in a draft worth 2 second rounders.
Hell yes he's worth it.  He's a great shooter and can play the point as well,
am I correct?

For Suns - loose Ceballos, replacable with Dumas.  Loose Knight - hasn't
looked good this year and I don't think the Suns are using him correctly.
Maybe he'd be better on a different team.  Frank Johnson has looked better
and if JJ can play some time at point - look out. KJ, Majerle, JJ, Ainge
guard rotation - I like it.  Mustaf is young, but not panning out to be
what the SUns expected, he's also expendable.  Plus a little extremely
talented youth never hurt any franchise.

For MAvs - they get something for basically nothing.  Ceballos is a real talent.
He leads the leage in FG%, correct?  Knight has looked great in the past,
hasn't this year for some reason.  He has the talent, maybe Dallas could
expliot him better than the Suns have this season.  They also have looked at
Mustaf in the past.  The guy came out 2 years early and has the physical
attributes; he could pan into something.

ON JJ:
OK, so the guy reenters the draft.  What happens when he's drafted ~#10 this
time.  He surely won't be as popular as #4 since he hasn't played in a year
(out fo sight, out of mind) and held out against Dallas - he's a risk.  So
what Dallas was offering at #4 might end up being much less than anything
someone would want to pay at #10ish.  what happens with that stalemate?
JJ want's what he thinks he's worth (#4).  He's screwed.
--
Harry Koehnemann
enuxha.eas.asu.edu
From: gbennett@frx784.intel.com (gbennett)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Bill Cartwright
Date: 7 Jan 93 20:15:45 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation

In article <1993Jan7.170203.8785@sol.UVic.CA> campos@sirius.UVic.CA (Marcello  Campos) writes:
>Hi, could anyone tell me for which team Bill Cartwright played before
>he joined Chicago Bulls?
>Thanks,
>Marcello.

He played for New York, and was traded for Charles Oakley, who is still with
the Knicks.

-Jerry
From: tannerg@carson.u.washington.edu (Glenn Tanner)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Sonics' draft picks
Date: 11 Jan 1993 05:01:17 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu
Keywords: Sonics Seattle

>In article <1iqeftINNc68@shelley.u.washington.edu>,
>tannerg@carson.u.washington.edu (Glenn Tanner) writes:
>>From what I've heard, and this is really confusing, Seattle has the best
>>of their, Portland's? (or some other good team), and Philly's 1st round
>>pick next year.  Since it appears Philly's will be the highest pick,
>>Seattle basically has the 76ers pick in the first round.  But, if this is
>>pick is in the lottery, Philly has the option of keeping it and giving the
>>Sonics their 1994 pick instead.
>>
>>Hope that clears it up (and I'm just really sure it will).
>>
>>GT
>
>
>Uh, well, as has been discussed on this group, Phoenix has Philly's
>No. 1 next year (unless it's a lottery pick, in which case Philly can
>retain it and give Phoenix their No. 1 in 1994).
>
>It could be that Phoenix's own No. 1 is one of the picks Seattle may
>have access to.  Seattle received that pick from Phoenix in the
>Xavier McDaniel trade, and then traded it to the Clippers in the
>Benoit Benjamin trade.  Seattle may have worked out some kind of
>arrangement with the Clippers wherein they keep Phoenix' pick if is
>higher than their own, giving the Clippers their own pick instead.
>Of course, this is all speculation.
>
>Come to think of it, I suppose it's possible (though it seems a
>stretch) that the McDaniel trade arranged that Seattle get the best
>pick available to Phoenix in '93, and that the Benjamin trade
>arranged that the Clipper get the lowest No. 1 available to Seattle
>in '93.  If this is the case, then Seattle would have the best of
>Philly's, Phoenix's, or their own in '93.

This is correct, with Philly having the lottery option on their pick.

>
>This sort of info certainly ought to be available somewhere.  Does
>anybody have a clue where?

I heard Sonics' GM Bob Whitsitt explain this one day, I believe, so I'm
about 90% sure this is the situation now that someone has straightened out
the teams involved for me.

GT

>Tony
From: tmorgan@quesadilla.ssesco.com (Toni Morgan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Box and Notes: MN vs Lakers 1/6/93
Date: 8 Jan 93 17:38:21 GMT
Organization: SSESCO

In article <1993Jan8.032322.17716@news2.cis.umn.edu> khansen@staff.tc.umn.edu () writes:

>2)  The combined lines of Minnesota's true centers was 14 minutes, 1-7 field
>goals, 3-4 free throws, 6 rebounds, 3 fous, and 5 points.  This habit has to
>change if the Timberwolves are going to beat any teams besides Dallas.
>
>3)  Bob McCann received his first career NBA start and scored 7 points.

The missing piece of information here (although implicit in the boxscore) is
that McCann, at 6-6 (or 6-7, depending upon whether you believe the program or
today's newspaper article) started at the center spot.  Although listed as a
forward, most of his minutes have been at center.  Sort of Nellie-esque, eh?

rgds,
  T

Toni Morgan        |   "Rock and roll is more than a haircut."
toni@zetaco.com    |                               - Nuno Bettencourt
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: koehnema@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann)
Subject: Re: YATR (Yet Another Trade Rumor)
Followup-To: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Reply-To: koehnema@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann)
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:41:24 GMT

In article <1ivfgtINNn2u@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei) writes:
>
>If Phoenix trades for Jim Jackson, you'd have to think that they would package
>someone off for a big man.  They keep losing size, and if this trade is made,
>even the Warriors would look big comparatively.

They loose no size with this deal - it's basically Ceballos and Knight for
JJ.  Ceballos is a good rebounder and above-average offensive rebounder,
but he's not "big".

>I don't think Phoenix intimidates too much defensively inside,

No shit.  WHo has the fewest blocks this year - Id imagine their close?
But, by the same token, there in the top 5 in rebounding.

>Why trade for more
>depth when they have areas in need?  Miller/West are 6'10'', Barkley is 6'5'',
>trade for Jackson and you lose a legitimately sized small forward for another
>shooting guard (the position with most depth) and you have an incredibly small
>team.

Don't look at it as "player at positions", look at it as skills and roles.
If Ceballos leaves, Majerle and Barkley could both play time at SF (behind
Dumas).  At PG smoeone else might get more time - Ainge?  Majerle?  F.
Johnson?  Does it really matter?  I don't think so.  It comes down who's on
the court next to, say Ainge - Knight or JJ.  I choose JJ.  I don't care
that he's not a PG.  There's enough ball handling skills on this team to
get around that problem.

I don't look at this as "filling a needed area".  I look at it as jumping
on an opportunity that is rarely available - Dallas absolutely must dump
this guy.  It's a chance to obtain a potential superstar at not too much
cost.  The fact that it's not exactly what you need isn't as important.


>Barkley can't do all the rebounding alone.

Please don't tell him that!  This is the first Suns team in years to be
on the plus side in rebounds.  I'd hate to see it end.  :)
--
Harry Koehnemann
enuxha.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: tamada@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael K. Tamada)
Subject: Re: JJ (was Re: YATR (Yet Another Trade Rumor))
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:46:25 GMT

In article <43341@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> cs163wav@sdcc8.ucsd.edu (Anthony Minkoff) writes:

>In article <1993Jan11.184818.12573@ennews.eas.asu.edu>,
>koehnema@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Harry Koehnemann) writes:
>
>>For MAvs - they get something for basically nothing.
>
>Nothing?  Are you familiar with the concept of "opportunity cost,"
>Harry?  Do you have any idea how many offers Dallas has had for JJ?

     Hey!  Someone who knows economics in r.s.bb.pro!  I like it!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  |__	       o
  | W			   Mike Tamada
		  |\	   Institutional Research Office
		   \O	   Occidental College
		    |      tamada@oxy.edu
		   /|
		  | |

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Re : IN MEMORIAM : Johny Most
Date: 6 Jan 1993 01:07:45 GMT
Organization: Your Guess Is As Good As Mine...
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: halcyon.aero.org

In article <2364@hsdndev.UUCP> nhmas@gauss.med.harvard.edu (Mark Shneyder) writes:
>
>Geez,R.S.or Really Sick as they call you at the funny farm,I guess I'll stop
>abusing you since you're really starting to snap. I should have expected it
>from someone who is not playing with a full deck...

BUZZZZZZZ. Oh, I'm sorry, Mark, time's up. First we gave you every opportunity
to write something intelligent - admittedly foolish on our part. A complete waste
of time. Then we tried to settle for something witty; again you were an
utter failure. So we though, ok, *maybe* this guy could - perhaps - write
something even mildly insulting???  But NO! Again, you have demonstrated
your complete inability to do anything but masturbate your keyboard.

Don Pardo, what has he won? A free "I'm a Clueless Jerk....and Proud of It"
teeshirt, a hand-bound collection of intimate photographs of his mother
and Fritz, the German Shepherd, and of course the Grand Prize: his very
own entry in R.S.'s killfile. Goodnight, everybody.......
From: dewey@ccs.northeastern.edu (Dwight S Flewelling)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Jordan & Pippen: No Olympics
Date: 4 Jan 93 15:52:16 GMT
Organization: College of CS, Northeastern U

in article 22187, dmd39855@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Daniel DuBois) writes:


>I'd like to see you call Pippen and/or Jordan "whiners" to their faces.
>You have no concept how hard they work.  NONE.  No concept how grueling
>a season they already have to put in.  100+ games, practices every day,
>playing against the best basketball players in the world, day in and
>day out (some of whom apparently are out to injure you after watching
>the NY and Detroit games the last few years).  Jordan's work ethic is
>legendary.  The reason they're stating their aversion to doing it all
>again is because of the negative affect it's had on their TEAM, the
>Bulls organization.  I consider this resposible conscientiousness a
>'good thing.'  An ignorant statement like that makes me just want to
>pimp-slap you.
>
>-Dan

Well, I haven't heard Stockton, Mullin, Malone, or Barkley complaining about
"fatigue", and while Clyde Drexler has been injured recently, *I* haven't
heard him blame his injuries on the "Dream Team Experience". 

Do you suppose that maybe Jordan and Pippen are ust making Excuses for a team
that's on they way down.  

As for how hard Pippen and Jordan really word, Hey, if I was making MEGA
MILLIONS to play a game, I'd work hard too, and they're not the only players
who work hard on their games, you make it sound like these guys are the
only players to take their game seriously. GET A LIFE, the Party's over
and the lower the Bulls sink, the more EXCUSES we're going to hear.

As for "pimp-slapping" any one, maybe some should slap you to wake you up :)

-Dewey
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: cs163wav@sdcc8.ucsd.edu (Anthony Minkoff)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: What's going on in Houston?
Summary: Seven losses in a row?
Date: 10 Jan 93 16:59:39 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego


What the heck is going on in Houston?  Seven losses in a row?  Could
somebody who is following this situation offer an explanation?

Is John Carter still alive (in the USENET sense of the term, of
course)?  I haven't seen one of his weekly reports this season.


Amusing story about the Suns-Spurs game of Jan. 3:  It seems that
just before the game, David Robinson received a message that his
wife was in labor, and he had to go to the hospital.  It turned out
that the message was from Charles Barkley...


Tony
From: xjam@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU (The Crossjammer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Warriors need an attitude...
Date: 9 Jan 93 03:45:47
Organization: University of California, Berserkeley
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: cork.cs.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU's message of Fri, 8 Jan 93 21:27:04 GMT

The Warriors already had someone like Joe Dumars, his name was Mitch
Richmond. Too bad they had to take this rather circuitous route to get
a clone of him.
--
xjam@cork.Berkeley.EDU  	Fiiiive Thousand Boomin Watts...... -The JBeez

They can't come on and play me in prime time, 	    | Free Millipede coin op
Cause I know the time, cause I'm gettin' mine.	    | and House music at my
I get on the mix late in the night... -Public Enemy | place! Drop by sometime.
From: oliver@athena.mit.edu (James D. Oliver III)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Spurs, etc.
Date: 6 Jan 93 02:37:12 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1992Dec29.212026.11372@microsoft.com> paulg@microsoft.com (Paul Goode) wrote:
> Anderson may return as early as January. Of Willie, Dale, Lloyd, and Vinnie,
> Anderson is clearly the starter -- he has the best all-around game and
> can contribute defensively. I would look for a trade, but who? Daniels
> has an awful lot of potential, Vinnie is at least a legitimate backup at
> point, and Ellis is the least marketable (unless his game comes around,
> but in that case, why trade him?).

Word is he'll be practicing in a couple of weeks.  Actually, I think Ellis
is the best choice for starter.  For one thing, I think he isn't
tempermentally suited to be brought off the bench, and despite his
reputation as a shooter really need to get into the flow of the game.  For
another, Willie would be a great backup for Elliott at forward, and can
swin to be a defensive stopper at guard.  

One thing for sure, the Spurs are cornering the market on 6'7" swingmen.
____________________________
	Jim Oliver  
	oliver@athena.mit.edu /	joliver@hstbme.mit.edu
	oliver%mitwccf.BITNET@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: toma@db.TC.Cornell.EDU (Rory Toma)
Subject: Re: YATR (Yet Another Trade Rumor)
Organization: Not bloody likely around here!
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 17:41:37 GMT


     I'm generally the last guy on the net to encourage this sort of
     rumor, but this one comes from reliable enough a source to be worth
     reporting:  It seems the Phoenix Suns have stated that they have
     been talking with Dallas regarding a possible trade of Negele
     Knight, Cedric Ceballos, and Jerrod Mustaf for the rights to Jimmy
     Jackson.

     Tony

Who is Jimmy Jackson? He can't be worth getting rid of Knight and Ceballos.
--
toma@tc.cornell.edu	rory@foopub.tucson.az.us
You want me to upgrade to System what?

From: dougs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Steele)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:33:26 GMT
Subject: Re: Team Standings and Stats
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
From: markham@brtph597.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205)
Subject: Re: INSIDE SPORTS poll: best players by position
Organization: BNR Inc. RTP, NC
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 21:16:40 GMT

Harry Koehnemann writes:
>Dave Meeks writes:
>>Well, looking at the lists, I thought they were pretty accurate...  Though
>>I am not a huge Rodman fan, and wouldn't list him that high either, I can
>>understand why someone would want him...  After all, look at the last couple
>>of years.  He has blown away the competition in the rebounding dept (albeit,
>>all the arguments of how he gets them, he still gets them), and is a 2 time
>>Defensive Player of the Year winner.
>
>Yea, but he's all Defense and Rebounding - that's it (and I'm not even sure
>about the defense any more, I don't think his heart's in it).  The guy plays
>40 minutes/game, but only gets 6 points?  That's scary whne you consider he
>must be getting 5-6 offensive rebound/game - what the hekll does he do
>with them standing 2 feet from the basket?  

As we all know, he taps them back at the glass, misses, taps it back at the 
glass, misses, ...(you get the picture).

-- 
Andrew W. Markham (markham@bnr.ca)
Bell Northern Research, Inc.
From: markham@brtph597.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205)
Subject: Re: Jordan & Pippen: No Olympics
Organization: BNR Inc. RTP, NC
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:28:41 GMT

>BTW can someone explain why the Olympics hasn't had such an adverse affect
>on Barkely and his Suns? 
> 
>--Eric

Because Barkley and 'his' Sixers didn't have to play an extra 22 games into
the middle of June during the playoffs last year...

-- 
Andrew W. Markham (markham@bnr.ca)
Bell Northern Research, Inc.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: bewillia@mothra.syr.EDU (Brad "Boomer" Williams)
Subject: Re: Good/Bad pick-ups (was Re: How dumb is Red McCombs?
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 00:14:55 EST

Ben Yau writes:

>Kind of reminds me , ex-blazers flourishing on another team.... didn't the 
>Clippers let a lot of players gowho have since flourished in the NBA?
>or at least who have come back to haunt them (which shouldn't be too hard 
>actually so it's probably just my own imagination)...
>

	The ones that immediately spring to mind for me are Terry Cummings
and Tom Chambers.  I suppose that you could maybe include Walton in there,
even though he had exactly one good season after he was traded (but it was
one hell of a good season).
	I seem to remember an article, perhaps in one of the Sporting News
Yearbooks, about ex-Clips doing very well in the NBA for other teams.  As I
remember, they also included James Donaldson (traded for Kurt Nimphius, of
all people), and some others whose names escape me.

				- Boomer
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: dvasilef@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (David Vasileff)
Subject: RookieWatch (1/10/93) -- Top Ten
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:24:44 GMT

Top Ten Rookies:  Jan 10, 1993

    Name	Team  Pick   Rating
    ------      ----  ----   ------
    O'Neal       ORL    1     22.6   #######################
    Mourning     CHA    2     12.3   ############
    Laettner     MIN    3     10.7   ###########
    Gugliotta    WAS    6      9.3   #########
    Williams     SAC    7      7.2   #######
    Miller       PHO   22      6.7   #######
    Day          MIL    8      5.8   ######
    Miner        MIA   12      5.5   ######
    Daniels      SAN   nd      5.3   #####
    Ellis        DEN    5      4.6   #####
    Weatherspoon PHI    9      4.6   #####

Ratings are based upon complete statistics (min,fg,fga,ft,fta,3pt,3pta,reb,
ast,stl,to,blk).  Also included are their position and team.  To make the
top ten, rookies are required to play a minimum of 10min/game that the team
has played.  The actual ratings numbers are translated so that the 'average'
rookie has a rating of 5.0.
From: dmd39855@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Daniel DuBois)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Jordan & Pippen: No Olympics
Date: 4 Jan 93 20:37:30 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

wgr@rti.rti.org writes:

>In article <1992Dec31.051104.21258@uvmark.uucp> davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:
>>No offense.. But the only "legendary" thing about Jordan's work ethic I
>>have ever heard is his desire to skip parts of training camp.  I have never
>>heard anything good said (but this is not to say it is bad, just that the 
>>only thing I have ever heard about his work ethic has been bad..)

>I've heard many comments by Jordan's coaches and teammates that they've
>never seen anyone who works as hard in practice as Jordan.  Doug Collins
>talked about it quite a lot.  Jordan is very competitive in scrimmages
>(and in all things, apparently) and got pissed at Collins once when he
>thought Doug wasn't keeping score correctly.

>So Jordan certainly works very hard in practice.  I don't know if he's as
>conscientious with general conditioning, weight work, etc.

Ive heard the same.  The 'story' of Jordan's competitiveness and
hard work go all the way back to when he was cut from his HS team.
He worked his ass off and got back on next year, and has been the
poster child for competitivness ever since.  Apperently some people
are Jordan fans to the degree we are, and only hear all the negative
publicity they can get.  Probably just jealous they don't have him
on their favorite team.  Some people need to bring others down to
make themselves feel good.


And to that other guy who said the Bulls are making excuses because
they're a team on theyre way down:  theyve won 7 in a row, they're
on pace for a 60+ win season.  Sounds awful to me.

-Dan
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro