From: gordons@netcom.com (Gordon Storga)
Subject: Re: To the discussionaries!
Organization: Stay Awake Software
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 04:28:57 GMT

<1992Nov18.010639.8793@iscsvax.uni.edu> clifton9220@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
><1992Nov12.070325.1829@netcom.com>, gordons@netcom.com (Gordon Storga) writes:
>> <1992Nov11.190043.8658@iscsvax.uni.edu> clifton9220@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
...
>>>---Clinton is not the enemy. --- Just because he is the president that supports
>>>many anti- christian ideals (gay rights, abortion on demand, etc.), 
>> 
>> And that all-consuming anti-Christian ideal - FREEDOM OF RELIGION.  (Psst,
>> Ken, that means that not being Christian is OK.  Got it?)
>
>What about the freedom to be a christian?  In acts Jesus told us to sread the
>news to all the world.  Being a christian means at least giving the others the
>option to know the truth.

I support your right to follow whatever religious teachings you want to
follow, providing they do not violate the laws of this country, nor the
spirit of the Constitution.  That leaves you a very broad base from which
to work.  Feel free to *offer* your religion to others as well.  But your
god said nothing about legislating his morals or teachings.  I, and
others, will not stand idly by and watch this country, and our rights,
handed over to the religious fanatics of any faith.  As you can see by the
results of the election, a lot of people agree with me.

>>>                                                                    he is only
>>>a tool that God uses to wake up his children and to shake the fence that people
>>>are trying to balance on.  
>> 
>> Why doesn't this wimpy god ever do anything himself?  Sheesh!  He sends
>> everyone else to do his dirty work.
>
>If God did, would you have to have faith to believe in him?  He doesn't want to 
>force you to believe in him.  YOU have to believe in him and then he blesses
>you.  I didn't know him till I gave it a shot, either.  Why not give it a shot?

We go over this all the time in this group.  "He doesn't *force* you to
accept him.  He'll just kill you if you don't, that's all."  BTW, I "gave
him a shot" many years ago.  It took awhile to get over the embarrassment
of following that "invisible friend".

>>>                           We need to love our brothers and sisters (even
>>>clinton) and hate the sin.  This also is true for hating abortion but loving
>>>those who had them.  We need to tell the truth but not judge, that is up to
>>>God.
>> 
>> Why don't you just mind your own business? If your god is really the big
>> cheese, it would seem that he could do all this himself.
>
>Did it occur to you that he is through us?

Did it occur to you that he *isn't* doing it through you?  Did it occur
to you that maybe it is your own egos that make you think you matter
enough to a being who supposedly created whle galaxies that he would
pick you to fulfill his will?  Did it occur to you that if this god
really existed he might make an appearance once in a while?  Did it
occur to you that some of the most horrendous crimes against humanity
were done by people claiming to be doing the "will of god"?

>>>           Many experienced people see him for what he was now --talk just
>>>talk.  I don't want to side track, but seeing that he wanted to bomb and begin
>>>a ground war with Serbia just a few months ago.  What will he do know?
>> 
>> Heck, you don't want him starting a war over human rights, do you?  "There
>> ain't any oil over there for us so why should we get involved."  Is that
>> it?
>
>Would you go and die?  ARe YOU in the army?

I would fight to defend this country.  So far, this country hasn't been
threatened since Pearl Harbor.  My point was, Bush went to war in the Gulf
not for human rights but for oil.  If it was purely the human rights issue
we would be fighting Kuwait to get equal human rights for women, and South
Africa for equal rights for blacks, and Republicans for equal rights for
gays.

From a moral viewpoint, I would rather we went to war to stop genocide for
it own sake, and not because we don't want to pay higher gas prices.

>>>I think that is good for now.  Peter -- stay in there and all you others for
>>>the unborn.  Maybe people will wake up soon.
>> 
>> Well when you do - welcome to the real world.
>
>At least I have you thinking.

Ken, I know that every newbie to this group thinks their ideas are brand
new and never before discussed.  I'm not trying to censor your opinion,
but everything you stated has already been hashed out by the regular
cast here many many times.  Try thinking that over too.


Gordon
Pro-abortion, Pro-person, Pro-women's-rights and ex-boytoy of Susan, Muriel, 
Cathi, Nora, Jennifer, Sarah, Lynn, Diana (catwoman), Diana (Sorceress), Beth 
"CJ", and Nadja, and married to a goddess among women, and proud of it.
[space reserved for alternate ex-girlfriends Eric R. and Drieux]
-- 
The opinions expressed are my own, and not the beliefs or opinions
of whatever company you think I work for.  So there, thhhbbbt!
Message to Kodak:  Freedom for Dan Bredy.