HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552)
Subject: Re:    It, as a subject.
Organization: just me
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 18:15:39 GMT
Followup-To: misc.writing

In article <Bw4745.BuH@unx.sas.com> sasbck@spain.unx.sas.com (Brenda Kalt) writes:
>
>In article <Bw2v5v.4tn@unx.sas.com>, sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com (Fred Welden) writes:
>|>
>|> In article <92287.091501KVJLC@ASUACAD.BITNET>, Jon L. Campbell <KVJLC@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:
>|> |[additional crticism of Stephen King's writing in NEEDFUL THINGS,
>|> |including the fact that King starts sentences with "It" and makes
>|> |grammatical mistakes.]
>                  [........]
>|> Second, there is no reason a sentence may not begin with the word "It"
>|> as a subject.  Sentences may begin with "I," "You," "He," "She," "We,"
>|> and "They." Why should the neuter singular pronoun (not a modifier, as
>|> you imply) be singled out as an exception?
>                  [........]
>|> In conclusion, my response is no, fiction need not be held to the common
>|> rules of grammar, spelling, and punctuation.  All these rules may be
>|> broken to great and desirable effect.  It is annoying in the extreme to
>|> read the work of a writer too ignorant or lazy to know or follow the
>|> rules, but not the work of a writer who knows the rules and breaks them
>|> deliberately, with good reason.  That, as the saying goes, is jazz.
>
>|> --Fred, or another blind 8th-century BC  |  sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com
>|>         Hellenic poet of the same name.  |
>
>
>"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times..." C. Dickens
>  
>"It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession 
>of a good fortune must be in want of a wife." J. Austen
>
>Brenda Kalt
>

"It was a dark and stormy night..."  (Some early Victorian novelist whose
name scrambled right out of my eye sockets.)

"It was early spring in Michigan and the ponds were barely covered with
cellophane-thin coats of ice."  Warren Murphy and William Sapir, The
Last Alchemist, pg 26

It looks to me as if both good and bad writing contains important
sentences which begin with it and are clearly not referring to some
specific antecedent.  I leave it as an exercise for the reader to
establish which of the above 4 cited works are good and which are
bilious dreck :-).

	David Pipes
robear@digex.com
(For those who are wondering, WM and WS write the Destroyer series, of
which the above-mentioned book is #64.  It was the first book to hand
at my work desk, which should tell you something about my job, if not my
taste in fine literature.  However I am sure that I can dig up "it"
citations from Huxley's Vanity Fair - that's at home.)
From: sascmc@pecos.unx.sas.com (Christopher Mark Conn)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: finding time to write
Date: 9 Oct 92 21:16:12 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.

How much time do you spend writing per week?
How do you find the time? I'm trying to approach
it the way I would an exercise program, finding a
time and committing to it. I'd be interested in 
your ideas.

-- 
______________________________________________________________________________
Christopher Mark Conn                                       sascmc@unx.sas.com
Systems Administrator / AIX Host Development         
SAS Institute Inc. PO Box 200075 Austin, Texas 78720-0075 (512) 258-5171 X3369
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: rmr@sgi.com (Robert M. Reimann)
Subject: Re: Carefull, studied splatting
Organization: Technical Publications, Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:36:00 GMT



Fred Welden says:

>>"What you want
>>to do, in my arrogant opinion, is to splat down what you think you want
>>to say on the page as close to all-at-once as you can manage...


Alan_Barclay@mindlink.bc.ca (Alan Barclay) writes:

>>In _my_ arrogant opinion, what a one is better off doing is learning to
>>write clearly the first time.  Then you don't have to rewrite half as much.

echyatt@eos.ncsu.edu (EDWARD CRAIG HYATT) writes:

>I don't agree that writing perfect copy the first time is a sort
>of nirvana that every writer tries to reach.   
>
>I think the "splat it down" vs. "review each sentence" question is
>a matter of personal style.  If you prefer to make a rough pass and
>dump your thoughts on paper for later editing, that doesn't make you
>less skillful than a writer who produces perfect copy the first time
>(all things being equal).  The dump-and-review writer takes time to
>revise the work as a whole, and the sentence-by-sentence writer takes
>time to revise each sentence.

You're right that it's a matter of style.  But for those
of us who are unable to articulate ourselves perfectly
at first blush (which I suspect covers most of us here),
it is probably better to learn how to get a rough cut
down on paper first, a version that captures the basic
emotions and inspirations for the piece.  It has been
a struggle for me to learn this, because I tend to be
somewhat obsessive about language.  I find that the
stuff I can get down on paper quickly has a much more
truthful ring to it.  When I agonize over word choice
as I write a first draft, I often get caught up in
editing and re-editing  a few sentences, and by the
second or third page am completely demoralized.  For
anyone who has these problems, I'd recommend trying to
supress your editorial impulses until you're mostly
through your first cut.  It's helped me, in any case.

>I think the style you choose has to do with how you think, and you should
>use whatever helps you write most effectively.

Absolutely.

				Robert.
Newsgroups: misc.writing,news.answers
From: farrell@coral.cs.jcu.edu.au (John Farrell)
Subject: Re: Usage: To try and find the answer.
Organization: James Cook University
Date: 14 Oct 92 23:36:12 GMT

In <Bw2ros.GFv@news.iastate.edu> bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible) writes:
>	I recently finished reading Larry McMurtry's _Lonsome Dove_, which I
>enjoyed, but I was distracted by his frequent use of the expression 
>"... to try and <verb> ..." instead of "... to try to <verb> ...".  (I've also 
>frequently seen this form used in less formal writing including post to this 
>group.)

  I think it should be "try to" myself, but even I say "try and". In fact,
hardly anyone in Australia, even newsreaders, seems to say "try to". It's so
depressing. However, in written language, I would insist on "try to". Lucky
I'm not an editor.

Friendless
Xref: sparky misc.writing:3118 alt.books.technical:272
From: keesh@cwi.nl (Kees van't Hoff)
Newsgroups: misc.writing,alt.books.technical
Subject: Refs to Tech writing
Date: 8 Oct 92 15:44:09 GMT
Followup-To: misc.writing
Organization: CWI, Amsterdam

Hi,

I am looking for some good references to books on technical writing, writing
user manuals etc.
Tutorials, guides and handbooks are all welcome.

Thanks in advance,

Kees.

-- 
Kees van 't Hoff, CWI, Amsterdam, the Netherlands.

keesh@cwi.nl
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox)
Subject: Re: Work in Progress
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 07:18:13 GMT

In article <15850@mindlink.bc.ca> Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian) writes:
>Actually, you can't afford to write two to three times as much as the finished
>book will hold...

	"You," that is to say I or anyone else, can afford a number of things--
or not, as the case may be.  Which is simply to say that all of us make our
own, individual deals with the various devils of subsistence, luxury, or 
whatever else we invoke.  More simply, some of us can afford or choose to 
afford things that others would find impossible.  I belabor this point 
because it is crucial:  Crawford has decided what he can and cannot afford,
as have I--our two reckonings are different.

>Suppose you're writing a novel of 100,000 words. Suppose it take you two hours
>to write a thousand words of finished text. That mean you'll take 200 hours to
>complete your ms.
>
>A first novel for the paperback mass market will probably earn an advance of
>$5000. That works out to $25 an hour...not a bad return, but not great. The
>longer it takes, the more time you spend fussing and revising, the lower your
>hourly rate.

	I can't really believe anyone goes into the fiction writing racket 
for a good hourly wage.  If so, he or she should probably rethink the whole
business and get into another line of work.

>In today's market, Flaubert would have found that le mot juste was worth about
>2 cents.

	A price for everything, a value for nothing--that is commodification
at work.  What millions of readers have found is that Flaubert's efforts are
worth everything he put into them, but that this worth is not so easily 
quantified.

	Contra Mr. Kilian, I would advise writers to write with as much
precision as you feel necessary, to revise as much as suits you, to write
whatever ratio of words/published words you need.  I personally think we 
(as readers, as writers, as a culture) need more writers willing to put
an uneconomic effort into their writing and fewer efficient hacks.


-- 
				Tom Maddox
		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
		"The Reptoids eat humans like we eat chickens."
				Alex Alexander
From: macgyver@anaconda.cis.ohio-state.edu (MacGyver)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Notes for writing
Date: 9 Oct 92 00:35:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: cis.1992Oct9.003517.26300
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science

I've been keeping notes of ideas, plots, & characters that come to me
during brain storm, or writing. But the notebook I keep is generally
very disorganized.

What I like to know is, do you keep notes? And if so, how do you organize
your notes?


					Mac


-- 
Wilson MacGyver                      |"I do like a road, because you can be 
Internet:macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu | always wondering what is at the end
=====================================| of it."
Disclaimer:All opinions are mine only|=======================================
From: Alan_Barclay@mindlink.bc.ca (Alan Barclay)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Carefull, studied splatting
Date: 9 Oct 92 00:26:34 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

I must clarify that I am not advocating "agonizing over every word."  Instead
I'm suggesting (backed by my own experience) that a writer can internalized
some rules for good writing and use those on the fly in order to create near
perfect prose.  I don't suggest that it is possible to throw down final draft
without rewriting, only that it saves time to learn how to hit the mark more
often on the first try.


--
Alan Barclay


alan_barclay@mindlink.bc.ca
Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive,alt.activism,alt.society.revolution
From: <MMEEROPO%WNEC@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject:  Forwarded message re film on Panama
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Originator: daemon@pencil.cs.missouri.edu
Organization: ?
Resent-From: "Rich Winkel" <MATHRICH@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:37:55 GMT

From: bmgarcia@Athena.MIT.EDU
Subject: "The Panama Deception"
To: lucha@Athena.MIT.EDU
Cc: latino-l@amherst.edu, democrats@Athena.MIT.EDU, ahana@Athena.MIT.EDU

Hola!
        Last night, I hiked over to the Coolidge Corner Theatre here
in Boston to watch one of the most powerful documentaries against the
Bush administration that I have ever seen.   It is entitled "The
Panama Deception", and it is a film by the Empowerment Project.   It
is an account of the 1989 invasion of Panama by the Un ited States as
told by citizens of Panama.  It reveals incredible numbers of civilian
casualties never reported by the U.S. gov't and other such atrocities.
If JFK made your head spin, this movie will tear it right off...
because this is reality.

A spokesman for the EP mediated a discussion with the audience after
the film.  He explained that the EP had planned to open the film
nationwide in only 25 theatres, but some "unknown" forces have
dwindled that number to a mere 15.  I believe it will soon open in New
York.  It is playing in Boston (at the Coolidge, take the 'C' green
line) on weeknights up until the Presidential election.  (Call
617-734-2501 for showtimes.)

The spokesman also mentioned that the film recently opened in Austin,
Tx.  If you haven't seen this film, I strongly urge you to do so.  And
take a group of friends along who are "undecided" about which
candidate will get their vote for the Presidency.
   .
Also mention the film to any colleagues you might have in the above
mentioned cities..  that's what this type of network is for, no?

Thanks for your time.  And remember to think before you vote...

- -Belinda Garcia, '94

Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive
From: harelb@math.cornell.edu (misc.activism.progressive co-moderator)
Subject: The Decline of America: A "Kinder, Gentler Nation"
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Originator: daemon@pencil.cs.missouri.edu
Organization: misc.activism.progressive on UseNet ; ACTIV-L@UMCVMB
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 16:07:34 GMT

The Decline of America: A "Kinder, Gentler Nation"


==================================================================
Mortality rate per 100,000 due to homicide for children age 1 to
        19, 1983-86, and for males age 15 to 24, 1986-87:
==================================================================

COUNTRY(12)   CHILDREN AGE 1-19    MALES AGE 15-24

U.S. black         10.7                  85.6
United States       3.7                  21.9
Denmark             1.5                   1.0
Canada              1.1                   2.9
Switzerland         1.0                   1.4
Belgium             0.9                   1.7
Germany             0.8                   1.0
Norway              0 7                   3 3
France              0.5                   1.4
United Kingdom      0.5                   1.2
Netherlands         0.4                   1.4
Spain               0 3                   ---
Ireland             0.2                   1.3
New Zealand         --                    4.4
Finland             --                    3.0
Australia           --                    2.5
Sweden              --                    2.3
Japan               --                    0.5

Sources (for chart and text): Bret C. Williams and C. Arden Miller,
Preventive Health Care for Young Children (Arlington, Va.: National
Center for Clinical Infant Programs, 1991), p. 73; Lois A. Fingehut
and Joel C.  Kleinman, "International and Interstate Comparisons of
Homicide Among Young Males," JAMA, vol. 263, no. 24, June 27, 1990. p.
3293.

******************************************************************

From: 
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  
_We're Number One, Where America Stands -- and Falls -- in the New    
World Order_ by Andrew L Shapiro.   

New York, May 1992, Vintage Books, a division of Random House.   
$10 paperback. ISBN 0-679-73893-2  
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -   

    "America is becoming a land of private greed and public squalor.   
    This book is an indispensable road map through the wreckage. The   
    facts it reveals will startle you. They may depress you. But   
    ideally they'll fire you up to help rebuild this nation."   

                        -Robert B. Reich, author of The Work of Nations   


Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive
From: jad@ckuxb.att.com (John A Dinardo)
Subject: "Why Was Patty Hearst Kidnapped?"  From PREVAILING WINDS RESEARCH
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Originator: rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu
Keywords: The Patty Hearst Kidnapping: expose from the PREVAILING WINDS catalog
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:17:54 GMT

   A reprint from  PREVAILING WINDS RESEARCH  
*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *
          _001_ "Why Was Patty Hearst Kidnapped"
                        by Mae Brussell

If you've never read one of Mae Brussell's breathtaking analyses
of political events, we suggest you start with "Why Was Patty Hearst
Kidnapped?"  Written in the summer of 1974, this classic study 
lays out the underlying factors involved in the Hearst kidnapping
and demonstrates that many of the members of the so-called 
"Symbionese Liberation Army" were FBI and police undercover operatives.
The reason for the kidnapping?  To manipulate public fear of terrorists
in order to pave the way for the removal of citizen rights and the 
creation of today's "national security" police state.

Tracing the genesis of the S.L.A. from its tainted beginnings to
its "cremation" by the Los Angeles Police Department, Mae explains
how to distinguish legitimate revolutionary groups from federal
agents provocateurs.  This article is contained in "The Mae Brussell
Reader," featured in the book section of this catalog.
-   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

        As a small non-profit group, Prevailing Winds Research
        hopes it can serve an important social service, attempting
        to preserve important and scarce information and making it
        available in the form of audios, videos, books and reprints.
                      ASK FOR A CATALOG.

                  PREVAILING WINDS RESEARCH
                       P.O. Box 23511
                   Santa Barbara, CA 93121

         Telephone: (805)566-8016     FAX (24 hours) (805) 569-2411
                 PWR Bulletin Board System: (805) 569-5005

----------------------------
Transcribed by John DiNardo


Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive
From: World Perspectives <worldpnews@igc.apc.org>
Subject: Inuit protest in Canada
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Originator: daemon@pencil.cs.missouri.edu
Organization: ?
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 01:10:01 GMT

/* Written  6:08 pm  Oct 14, 1992 by worldpnews in cdp:worldp.samples */
/* ---------- "Inuit protest in Canada" ---------- */
From WORLD PERSPECTIVES. Box 3074, Madison, WI 53704


CANADA
 Four Inuit natives from Labrador have been arrested on a Dutch air
force plane during a protest against low-level military training
flights by NATO. Inuits have been protesting against the flights in
Labrador for years, saying they disrupt wildlife and their way of
life.

About 50 protestors were arrested at the air base for blocking the
runway where a squadron of Dutch fighters was preparing to leave
for a Canadian forces base. (R. Canada 10/12)

=================================================================

      OTHER NEWS TODAY ON THE SUBSCRIBERS-ONLY WORLDP.NEWS:

Bombs in India & Japan; Fighting in Afghanistan; Cameroon elections
fraud allegations; Fighting in Angola & Somalia.

                         SUBSCRIBE!
Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive
From: odin@world.std.com (Hank Roth)
Subject: 10 REASONS NOT TO VOTE FOR GEORGE BUSH
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Originator: rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 17:24:27 GMT

<<< via P_news >>>>
{From: Fifth Estate}

10 REASONS NOT TO VOTE FOR GEORGE BUSH

1. He slaughtered 100s of thousands in Iraq for oil.
2. He slaughtered thousands in Panama after his drug running 
   cohort no longer served his purposes.
3. He supported and armed Saddam Hussein and Manual Noriega 
   along with other wretched dictators to support U.S. interest.
4. He and Reagan slaughtered 100s of thousands of peasants in 
   Guatemala, El Salvador and Nicaragua during the 1980s.
5. He and Reagan looted the poor, workers and middle-class to 
   enrich the already wealthy.
6. 70% of his campaign is financed by big corporations.
7. He wants Constitutional amendments to abolish abortion and to 
   allow prayer in schools.
8. He and his part cater to the country's most vicious 
   homophobes, racists, religious fanatics and woman-haters.
9. He is a millionaire.
10. He wants business as usual for the Empire.
________________________________________________________________
*Check out P_news, a Fido echo conference exclusively for Commie 
Pinkos and other fellow travellers.....///...odin@world.std.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------
 
*The USA has moved so far to the Right that even "liberals" and 
anyone calling themselves "Leftists" in this country are "redbaited" 
as "Commie Pinkos." The truth is, anyone to the Left of Atila the Hun
is subversive in the New World Odor.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Fifth Estate is published quarterly at 4632 Second Ave., Detroit,

Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive
From: harelb@math.cornell.edu (Harel Barzilai)
Subject: (INFO on) Pres. Candidate Ron Daniels (Fri, Oct 2,Oakland,CA)
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Originator: daemon@pencil.cs.missouri.edu
Organization: ?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:14:00 GMT

   From: K.Spagnolo@massey.ac.nz
   Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 12:55:53 +1300
   Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive
   To: harelb@math.cornell.edu
   Organization: Massey University Computer Centre

   Hi,

   I'm an absentee voter in New Zealand, who will be voting as a
   Marylander.  I do not wish to vote for any of the candidates on my
   ballot and would consider Ron Daniels as a write in vote if I knew
   more about him.  Can you point me to a source of his policy stands?
   Most important is that I be able to get this thru the Internet,
   since time is running out.

   Thanx for any help,
   -- 
   Ken Spagnolo - Ph: +64-6-350-5160
   Systems Programmer, Network Support, Usenet Admin, etc.

If you can ftp, here's a sample session..

Harel Barzilai
Co-founder, Co-moderator, misc.activism.progressive (MAP)



math> ftp pencil.cs.missouri.edu
Connected to pencil.cs.missouri.edu.
220 pencil FTP server (SunOS 4.1) ready.
Name (pencil.cs.missouri.edu:harelb): anonymous
331 Guest login ok, send ident as password.
Password:harel

230 Guest login ok, access restrictions apply.
ftp> cd LOOKEE_HERE/map
250 CWD command successful.
ftp> dir *daniel*
200 PORT command successful.
150 ASCII data connection for /bin/ls (128.84.234.31,2374) (0 bytes).
-rw-r--r--  1 100      staff        5079 Jul 24 18:26 daniels.platform-summ
-rw-r--r--  1 12       staff       10999 Jul 22 03:55 daniels.speech.1
-rw-r--r--  1 12       staff        9385 Jul 22 03:55 daniels.speech.2
-rw-r--r--  1 12       staff       11005 Jul 22 03:55 daniels.speech.3
-rw-r--r--  1 12       staff       14328 Jul 22 03:56 daniels.speech.4
226 ASCII Transfer complete.
remote: *daniel*
365 bytes received in 0.18 seconds (2 Kbytes/s)
ftp>