From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Subject: Re: Using the Bible with non-Christians?
Organization: SPSS Inc.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:11:24 GMT

warren@pws.ma30.bull.com (Warren Lavallee) writes:

>Are there any professing "Pro-Choice" Christians out there?
Yes.

>Christian (in the above sentence) being some who meets the following
>Scriptures:  (this is NOT meant to be an all inclusive definition)
OK...let's see how I do by *your* definition...

>John 3:3
>	In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see
>	the kingdom of God unless he is born again. "
Yep.  I fit this.

>Acts 16:30-31
>	He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to
>	be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will
>	be saved-- you and your household."
Yep.  This too.

>and believes:
>
>2Tim 3:16-17
>	All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking,
>	correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God
>	may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Well, this depends on what you mean by 'God-breathed' and what context you
take this quote in.  Clearly, the letter to Timothy can only be talking
about the OT when referring to Scripture...I don't believe in plenary
verbal inspiration, but I do beleive the Bible is inspired.
I think it fits.

>1 Cor 3:19-20
>	For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is
>	written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness" ; and again,
>	"The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile."
What's the point?  I counter this with "Know the truth, and the truth shall
set you free," which says to me that I should seek wisdom, so long as I
follow God.

>Does anyone else other than me feel it is foolish to be talking about abortion
>from a Biblical perspective with non-Christians?
More or less.  But the point is that the Bible is brought into the debate.
And there are Christians in the debate, on both sides.  I tend to wait for
someone else to mention religion or the Bible, and then throw in my two
cents.

>They don't believe in Jesus Christ.  They don't believe the Bible.  They will
>argue using the Bible because we believe it and they think it gives them power
>over us. However without being a Christian, they can NOT understand the Bible.
I disagree.  The Jews certainly understand the OT.  It is their book,
after all.  And people can understand the Bible and just not buy it.  Some
people just have to be shown...(Doubting) Thomas comes to mind.

>The Bible is a spiritual book that you can only understand fully when you
>have the Holy Spirit.
Perhaps...

>1 Cor 2:13-16
I agree with this...but it doesn't say to me that unbelievers will not
understand.  Heck, the best Bible Scholar I know is NOT a Christian...and
I'm talking theologically, historically and critically speaking.

There are people who understand yet still do not believe.

>They profess to be under no authority (in actuality they are: the
>prince of the power of the air), so we can't do they same thing to them.
>They admit no absolutes, no matter what we say, it seems to bounce off them.
>How do you argue values with someone who has no values?  If we want to
>discuss it with them, we need to do it (IMHO) from a worldly view point
>(never forgetting what God says of course.) 
Not being Christians does not imply no values.  Morals and ethics can come
from sources other than religion...they might just be different than the
ones you like.  I have two sets of morals...one for myself (I stand by
Christ's teachings) and then one for society, based on concepts of freedom
and personal autonomy.  I won't impose my morals on someone else, and ask
in return that they agree to do the same.

>With facts.  Facts come right against the lies that the enemy is using. 
>Facts can be verified in the world.
Facts like what?

>What do christians think?
I think we should keep our morals to ourselves and to those who willingly
come to follow Christ.  No Christian should impose his moral values on
anyone else, and above all should be tolerant of others.  If we want this
kind of treatment, we must first give it.

 -Steve
--
  The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
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   adams@spss.com                                  Phone: (312) 329-3522
   Steve Adams        "Space-age cybernomad"       Fax:   (312) 329-3558