From: terry@eece.ksu.edu (Terry Hull)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: 6 mo. old GSD vs. my 4 yo daughter - HELP
Date: 2 Sep 1992 15:19:29 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: ralph.eece.ksu.edu

macaj2@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (MACKINNELL AMANDA) writes:

>In article <1803j5INNf2b@moe.ksu.ksu.edu>, terry@eece.ksu.edu (Terry Hull) writes:
>> isjrc@dcatla.uucp (John R. Caruso) writes:
>> 
>> >	OK, what am I supposed to do? The dog thinks he's a kid.
>> >	He's 6 months old so maybe that's the way it's supposed to
>> >	be but is he entitled to the sandbox??? 
>	
>	NO!  Who does it belong to? your daughter or the dog?

Why can't it belong to one part of the time and the other at other times?  
Maybe it could be used to teach the little girl to share.  


>> You were probably not aggressive enough with the finger down the throat.  
>> If the dog does not submit, you can go to the point that the dog will
>> gag.  
>	Question : I havent heard of this technique, what good does it do?
>	in this case it doesnt appeared to have worked; what was it supposed 
>	to do?

There has been a lot of confusion here.  Putting your hand or fingers
down a dog's throat can be used to curb a puppy's desire to bite
hands.  When the puppy bites your hand, you push it down his throat
far enough to make it uncomfortable for him.  It is sometimes quite
effective at curbing this kind of biting.  It is not so effective on
nipping though, since your hand is not already in the dog's mouth.  

My point above was if the dog is not immediately backing off, you have
probably not put your hand far enough down his throat and thus are
just providing him something convenient to chew on (your hand.)  

>> >	Are there any alpha-type exercises I could do with my 
>> >	daughter to establish her as superior? 
>> 
>> IMHO, no.  You cannot establish the child as superior, because the child is 
>> not mentally or physically more capable than the dog.  Instead, you
>> must establish yourselves as masters and have the dog respect the
>> child because YOU say so.  
> and most Golden type trainers are { :) }
>> not very good with dominant dogs.  (Obviously there are exceptions to this
>> rule.  Many really excellent trainers that can handle all kinds of
>> dogs prefer to train softer dogs themselves.)  
>	One exercise that may help in asserting some form of dominance is the 
>	grasping of the dog by his jowls (the skin around his throat), looking
>	directly into his eyes and growling at him "BAD DOG" n.b. Do not shout,
>	but use a low "gruff" tone of voice.
>	This is a technique that (without the "bad dog" bit) a pack leader would
>	exert on another dog.. watch an older dominant male grasp a younger one 
>	in a similar place and wrestle him to the ground, growling at the same
>	time.

The question was for an exercise that would help establish the CHILD
as dominant over the dog.  Children should not be trying to scruff
shake a dog, IMO.  

When my adult dogs discipline Wiz, the 6 month old (puppy), they grab his
muzzle in their mouth and bite down.  I tried this once, but I could
not get his nose in my mouth.  It was too big.  

;-) ;-)  I'm kidding folks.  I have not tried to bite my pup's nose. 

>> .  You need to establish control before you try to control him
>> around the child.  Also, I would be very careful with the cuffing
>> under the chin.  If this pup is really dominant, it will not do much
>> good and in fact may encourage the dog to fight you.  I find a slap or
>> bump under the chin of my Rottweilers to be VERY ineffective at
>> defusing a confrontation.
>> 	Again my question, you put your finger INTO the dog's mouth?

Sure I do.  I put my fingers in the mouth of my Rott male who could 
break serveral of the bones in my hand with one unrestrained bite.
But that is not the point.  A dog will not bite something that is
causing him to gag.  Instead, he has the same reaction that you do, he
coughs it up.  The muzzle biting mentioned above is actually the basis
for the cuff under the chin.  The Monks did not think that a human biting a
dog's muzzle was a good idea either.  

>> I do not allow my dogs to defend themselves against my son.  They have
>> the absolute right to get up and leave, but growling, snarling,
>> mouthing etc is not allowed.  
>	These basic manners are something that your dog MUST learn, and now 
>	before he trains you, not the other way around.

Just don't forget the two-way street.  The child must be trained as
well.
--
Terry Hull  -  terry@eece.ksu.edu
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Kansas State University
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs