From: jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au (Joseph Askew)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: child labor and minimum wage.
Summary: Yes they did
Date: 28 Jan 93 01:43:34 GMT
Followup-To: alt.politics.libertarian
Organization: Statistics, Pure & Applied Mathematics, University of Adelaide

In article <1k17smINN25d@armory.centerline.com> mrh@centerline.com (Mike Huben) writes:
>In article <1993Jan22.111431.16248@genie.slhs.udel.edu> starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr) writes:
>>In article <1jf7rsINNq3t@armory.centerline.com> mrh@centerline.com (Mike Huben) writes:

>>}The US government NEVER enslaved.  At worst, it started with common law.

Yes the US Government or at least State governments did. The first 'slaves'
brought to America came as indentured labour. They were free but had a labour
contract for a number of years. This scheme included Africans as well as
whites. From the earliest days though a contract for an African was worth
much more than a contract for a white. This was because all legal niceties
aside the owners of the contract had no intention of letting their Africans
go. At some point the US governments recognised the practise by turning de
jure free blacks into slaves (which de facto they were already). Thus the
US government *did* enslave a rather large number of people.

I also believe that various States had laws that enabled freed slaves to
be re-enslaved if they could prove they had been freed (trick if you have
lost your piece of paper) or even if they couldn't prove they were in useful
employment!

>Owners
>could and did free their slaves if they wanted to, several ways, such as
>shipping them north or returning them to Africa (Liberia for example.)

As someone else has mentioned various States had laws limiting an owners
right to free slaves. Thomas Jefferson is one case.

>Private parties collected slaves much as market
>hunters trapped or killed animals.  Private parties imported the slaves, and
>private parties purchased the slaves for labor.  These private parties were
>all capitalists operating for their own profit.  This was a free market in
>slaves because it was uncoerced and unregulated by government through most of
>our history.

While it is true that some slaves were 'collected' be essentially free market
operatives these were a tiny minority. The vast majority were 'collected' by
governments in Africa. Often these weren't African either. Much was done by
Arab and Portuguese governments. The Portuguese placed quotas on Chiefs who
had surrendered to them and this arrangement continued after slavery was
abolished in the guise of labour contracts (which is where many workers in
South Africa started from). As for the importation, this too was not a free
market phenomena! The Portuguese closely guarded the right of importation
for many years, this right was taken from them by firstly the Spainish, then
the French and then the British after being beaten in war. These countries
placed this right with semi official semi state owned companies such as the
British West Africa Company. These were official monopolies like the more
famous British East Asia Company. I'll accept that private people then
bought the slaves when they landed in America and that also subcontractors
moved them across the Atlantic but the other end was *not* in any way private.

>Please name one case where the US government said "you must now own this slave"
>or "you've never been a slave before, but you are one now."  Slavery has always
>been initiated by capitalists.

The US government *did* say the second anyway. See above. Re-enslaving
*was* commonplace or at least relatively commonplace.

>>In the case of Thomas Jefferson, there was: a restrictive covenant on his
>>inheritance.  He tried to get a statute banning slavery passed while he was
>>in the Virginia colony legislature, but failed.

>Who placed the covenant on his inheritance?  Was it a government, or was it
>the capitalist he inherited from?

The Government. A State law specifically forbad the freeing of slaves by
their owner while there were debts on the estate. When TJ inhereted his
slaves he was essentially forced to own them until he paid off the morgage.
He didn't free them even then.

>I suspect that TJ could have freed his slaves somehow; if only by selling them
>for a pittance to an abolitionist.  I suspect that he didn't to retain his
>credibility while attempting to legislate their freedom.

Well he was sleeping with one aged fourteen so I don't think he really
cared much. I suspect posturing more than conviction. I also think he
could have if he really wanted to -  he could have moved to another State
for instance. He didn't because he enjoyed his position which meant slave
owning.


Joseph Askew


-- 
Joseph Askew, Gauche and Proud  Barbarian horns draw out the northern wind;
jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu  Paler than water lies the Thistle Pass;
Disclaimer? Sue, see if I care  Sky swallows up the road to Kokonor;
One China One Korea One Eire32  Moonlight, a thousand miles along the Wall.
Newsgroups: alt.politics.libertarian