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Posted-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 22:08:34 EDT
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 22:08:34 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      the life of Dostoyevsky
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

One of my favorite things about Raskolnikov was that he was so often
feverish.  Feverish experience is intensified experience.  I grew up in
the suburbs, and I had been neeeding Crime and PUnishment since I was
born. Personally, I don't care if a book is depressing.  If it's good,
it has a positive effect on me, regardless whether the subject matter
is depressing.  There was a kind of happy ending, but it was probably
the weakest part of the book (not everyone thinks that).
	Dostoyevsky had an interesting life.  Early in his student days he
was involved with a radical student group.  He was arrested and faced the
firing squad.  At the last second, they commuted his sentence to a prison
term. From that time he was epileptic, so there has been speculation about
the source of his epilepsy.  His book about his experiences in prison,
House of the Dead, is considered to be an important work.  He was a compulsive
gambler, had problems from time to time with alcohol, and did a lot of
his writing under deadline (serial publication)--once, I remember, trying
to finish a novel with his uncle dying on his couch.  "White Night" was
a very romantic early work which I loved when I was young.  A long story,
or short novel, that not everyone is familiar with, is "The Eternal Husband,"
which is good to have when you run out of major novels.  It is true that as
an older man he became conservative politically, but many critics have pointed
out how his work never suffered from the limited perspective present in his
politics. About his anti-semitism I know very little.  I don't remember
encountering it in his novels, but it wouldn't surprise me if it turned up
in his later political journalism--just because, as someone pointed out, to
the degree that he was simply a man of his times, this would not have been
unusual.  Fortunately, in his work, he was much more than a man of his
times.  He was not a writer whose work ever began to decline.  The Brothers
Karamazov, often considered his greatest work, was written when he was about
55, and was to be part of a new many-volumed work called The Life of a Great
Sinner.  He was getting better and better. Michael B.
q
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Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:02:54 EST
From:         LBH <helfrich@SIAM.ORG>
Subject: re: random shuffling
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

     My colleagues at work and I did this once.  As Susan pointed out, we
     were able to see the line just previous, but none of the others.  It
     was a very interesting exercise.  There were four of us, all in the
     same large office, and it was a way to break up the day.  We ended up
     with some rather nice poetry.

     If y'all decide this is something worth doing, count me in.

     Laura
     helfrich@siam.org
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:37:59 PDT
From:         LITERARY <LITERARY@CLOVIS.FELTON.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: War and Peace - Sonya

Reply-to: Tim.Bowden@p0.f509.n216.z1.fidonet.org (Tim Bowden)
Fido-To: gs0383%springb.bitnet@siucvmb.siu.e

GE>  I don't understand why Rostov was not loyal to her and
GE> whether he really loved her or not.


I was interested in the hunt because it was the one time class
seemed to be dissolved.  The old gamesman rebuking the young
princes because he knew the hunt and they didn't, even the
mongrel breed cheaply bought of the gamekeeper outhunted
the fine and very expensive hounds of the royals; it was
a time in the book where breeding and privilege went begging.


And Prince Rostov made and promised love to Sonya.


Harsh reality dissolved the love dreams of children.  The
Princess Marya was homely yet wealthy.  It's like waking
up.

GE>     By the way, I am so glad everyone is discussing these
GE> wonderful Russian books.  I have read all the Tolstoy and
GE> Dosteovsky I could find, and I have never found anyone to
GE> discuss them with.


It is refreshing having you here.  Too often these forums take
on the tone, male, I calls it, of the trajectory of bowling
balls, with each rumbling down the alley their prize theory.
Me as much as any.  I will be the first to admit I have more
willingness than ability in discussing what I only vaguely
understand.

The feminine voice has wonder, has depth and perception but
can see changes as well.  Many of the boys have read some-
thing many years ago and have not opened up their minds to
it since.

Again, just analyzing my own processes, guys...
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 10:58:10 -0400
From:         Agnes Kruchio <kruchio@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject:      Re: Akhmatova story
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu
              Christian" at Jul 30, 92 10:38 am

I have just this AM joined this dicussion group. I am  a fan of A.
Akhmatova's poetry and would like to find out more about it and her
life -- could someone be kind enough to resend the earlier part of
this string of discussion on AA? If you still have it, that is -- Thnks.

Agnes K.
kruchio@epas.utoronto.ca
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 13:36:25 EST
From:         LBH <helfrich@SIAM.ORG>
Subject:      Dostoevski
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

     While we're on the subject, what about the short novel "The Double"?
     Golyadkin, the hero of "The Double," is a lowly civil servant who
     awkwardly and unsuccessfully persues the daughter of his employer.
     After some cruel rebuffs, a strangeness enters Golyadkin's world and
     another Golyadkin, his absolute double, appears on the scene.  Where
     the old Golyadkin had fumbled, the new one was adroit.  He is soon a
     favorite in exactly the ways the old Golyadkin yearned to be.

     Most critics disliked this story, but I didn't.  It is similar in
     style and manner to some of Gogol's work, particularly _Diary of a
     Madman_.

     In the same vein, what about the Hungarian author, Arthur Koestler,
     and his novel, _Darkness at Noon_, which is based on the Moscow
     trials during the 1930s?

     laura
     helfrich@siam.org
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 02:58:00 EST
From:         George Mosley <MOSLEY@UNC.BITNET>
Subject: Re: contemporary opinions

Lonfellow was held in so much esteem that he is the only
American poet in Westminster Abbey's Poet's Corner.  Today,
it is nearly an insult to suggest that one read him.
.
The same may be said, in less grand terms, of Fennimore Cooper
(although Cooper met resistance almost immediately).
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:54:14 -0500
From:         Doris Smith <dorisann@TENET.EDU>
Subject:      Re: worthwhile reading?
Comments: To: "Discussions about Literature" <LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list LITERARY <LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>

Thanks, Eric, for the reply about _Sarum_. I'm still plodding through it; the
suspense will be to see if I finish it.
Doris
dorisann@tenet.edu
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Posted-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 13:41:20 EDT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:41:20 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Kafka
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Jeremy, I remember him in bed, and then doesn't he suddenly throw off the
sheets and stand up and take control? (This suddenly reminds me of how the
father in Metamorphosis takes on new strength and purpose once his son has
become sick and confined to his room.) I have often quoted with a kind of
fascinated delight the very funny lines that the narrator's father in the
Judgment delivers to his son concerning the son's fiance. I'm quoting from
memory, but I'll bet it's at least close to, "I'll sweep her from your
very side!" To me, that is a remarkable moment in fiction. But I had not
noticed the passage you refer to where the father is spoken of as being
inside the son.  Would you point it out?  The story is ambiguous in other
ways which I find not so much puzzling as mysterious in the best way--the
whole scene with the father begins with the narrator looking out the window.
Is it a daydream?  And further, does the son really have this fiance?  Has
the father realy been reading the mail.  Kafka manages not to commit himself
on these "reality" issues without leaving us bothered about which it is, but
somehow located where either or both are true, and in any case it is dis-
turbing.  Mike.
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Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 02:36:00 PDT
From:         Michael Bruce McDonald <MCDONALD@OREGON.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Of Levin and Ivan

Tim of Brown, I think it patently unfair of you to introduce philosophical
speculation into the Levin vs. Ivan ten rounder and then demand that such
speculation cease.  Why is such speculation unliterary, anyway?  Because it
does not come, in this instance, with the name of a "great author" attached?

m mcdonald
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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 09:07:52 EST
From:         SIF <finkelst@SIAM.ORG>
Subject:      Hester's murder
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

          I think a common problem among high school English teachers
          is overconcentration on plot.  Admittedly, one does not read
          _The Scarlet Letter_ for that, especially teenagers.  From
          that aspect, it is definitely slow-moving, which was my big
          complaint about it at the time.  The beauty of
          Hawthorne, however, is his insight into the `human
          condition' (excuse the clich), his ability to delve into
          the hearts of his characters and to redefine the traditional
          concepts of good and evil.  Society's treatment of the
          Artist, in my opinion, is also one of his major themes.
          Unfortunately, none of this was even touched upon in that
          long-ago class.  Hester and Dimmesdale appeared as lifeless,
          limp, and Pearl was definitely overplayed, even appearing
          more developed than the others.  Her symbolism, and that of
          other aspects of the novel, was completely ignored.

          The method of teaching was condescending.  It even went so
          far as to read chapters aloud, with different students
          alternating dialogue, almost like a play.  Ack!  This is not
          a simple novel and should not be treated as one.  To me, it
          is way too developed for most high school students, except
          perhaps for advanced classes.  The sexual implications can
          be quite sensitive, and, if these aren't included in the
          teaching, then the novel simply should not be taught at all.
           I also think the themes mentioned in the above paragraph
          might be a little heavy for students who have had limited
          exposure to adult literature.  Perhaps Twain and Poe also
          fall into the category of authors whose works are too
          complex for high-schoolers.  Anybody else have any other
          ideas?

          Susan Finkelstein
          finkelst@siam.org
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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:45:00 EDT
From:         IAN YORK <YORK@MCMASTER.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Richard Brautigan

Tom: re Brautigan's suicide:  he shot himself, but I don't know the details.
The paper just said he was found after several weeks, so presumably he was
alone at the time.  That would have been maybe 5-8 years ago.
-Ian
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Posted-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 18:22:15 EDT
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:22:15 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      vacation
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

I'll be gone until Saturday night--lucky I let you know--but I'm taking
along a copy of the poem to study to be ready to respond as soon as I
get back. Michael B.
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Full-Name: Kar Subrat
Tel: +39 (40) 2240205 [Off]  Fax  : 39(40)224559
Tlx:  460392 ICTP I          Cable: CENTRATOM TRIESTE
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 07:53:05 -0500
From:         "Kar Subrat" <SUBRAT@ITSICTP.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Amis and Gordimer
Comments: To: mbm@pacscl.uarc.upenn.edu
              "mbm@pacscl.uarc.upenn.edu" at Jul 20, 92 11:18 pm

(Please do not use my older email address : subrat@itsictp.bitnet)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Re: your email (from mbm@pacscl.uarc.upenn.edu)
|
| Actually, I wanted to ask you if you had read_A Passage to India_ anytime
| lately. We studied it recently in school, and I would appreciate an
| evaluation of Forster's portrayal of Indians.  I have heard the book
| praised as an anti-colonialist text, and damned as racist.  Is it ether?
| both?
|

I have read _A P to I_ a few years ago. The character referred to  is
probably Dr.Aziz. Forster depicts Aziz as the fawning' native,
slightly shrewd and eager to please. Perhaps that is why you heard it
described as racist. I wouldn't subscribe to the idea that it is
anti-colonial though
perhaps the question merits a fuller explanation (which I could
probably give if I read it again once more).

Subrat
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Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:01:49 -0500
From:         Doris Smith <dorisann@TENET.EDU>
Subject:      re: random shuffling
Comments: To: "Discussions about Literature" <LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list LITERARY <LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>

>      If y'all decide this is something worth doing, count me in.
>
>      Laura
>      helfrich@siam.org

And me.  If I make too big a mess of things, I promise to exit.
Doris
dorisann@tenet.edu
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Posted-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 14:23:52 EDT
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:23:52 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      Levin
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

	What does his nervousness have to do with his intelligence? And in
the quote from chapter 9, there is a suggestion that if someone goes through
a period of confusion, during which one is not led straight to the goal,
one displays incapacity. Hardly! Lord, how many miles of examples could
be cited of people who read, and thought, and remained in confusion, before
finally making some progress.  And as for his remark that "his convictions
were really ignorance," we have to put that into an important context, which
is that the great majority of people in a given culture never question their
convictions to this extent, never even proceed this far toward self-examination.
There is intuition mixed with the rational in Levin's thinking, and not, per-
haps he is not presented as an obsessive thinker, but must every character
be an obsessive thinker to gain our respect?
	Finally, there is never any _founded_ conviction that God must exist,
at least no conviction founded on rational thought. Is he being asked here
to base his religious feelings on a strictly intellectual foundation? Why
should he be required to justify his belief that way. He says that he believes
for his own reasons, but will not presume to say therefore that all people
who believe differently, and for other reasons, are wrong. I'd say that's a
k
kind of tolerance in religion that the world has seen too little of .
Enough for now. Michael B.
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 14:53:08 EDT
From:         Ahmed Farah 4883555 ext 249 <AAIT01@SAKACS00.BITNET>

The other day I was reading Boris Paternak's "Doctor Zhivago". I really fancy
the smooth reading of this masterpiece. Generally I admire the prolific
literary contributions of Russian giants like Chekov, Dostoevski, Tolstoy
and last but not least Maxim gorky. Does anyone in the list admire Russian
authors like myself so that we may exchange viewpoints, comments, and some
times critiques on any literary masterpiece. By way of introduction, I
am a bookworm who has a propensity to the short story genre. Of late I'm
busy rewriting my own collection of premiere short stories and would sub
mit it for publication soon this year .
Virtually
Ahmed Farah
BASM/KACST box 6086
Ryadh 11442
Saudi Arabia
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 10:38:42 EST
From:         Graham Wolff Christian <GRAHAM@HARVARDA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Akhmatova story
              29 Jul 1992 18:30:13 EDT from <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>

If I remember correctly, the Akhmatova paraphrase is part of the prefatory
material to *Requiem*. Akhmatova's son by Gumilev is in prison (not for any
act he was supposed to have committed, not that it took even that much in the
Stalinist USSR--it was the government's favorite way to torment Akhmatova)
and AA is standing outside the prison waiting to see him in a long line with
other women in much the same situation. A woman beside her recognizes her
(remember, hers was a very famous face--she was much photographed before the
Revolution--hard to imagine in this poetry-scorning country)and turns to her
"what had once been her face" and says...
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:18:00 GMT
From:         "Dr A. Haggard" <ENLNIFHLATHU@BODKIN.UCG.IE>
Subject:      Kipling & Friendly Brook
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

The dialect in "Friendly Brook" is certainly not Irish - not even what
Kipling usually represented as Irish.  I would presume it to be Sussex
"country" speech; it looks very like the dialect given to Hobden, the
archetypal English countryman in _Rewards and Fairies_ and _Puck of Pook's
Hill_.  Dixon Scott, in "Men of Letters", comments on Kipling's use of
dialect to categorise those who had not sufficient foresight to be born
upperclass English.

Amos Haggard.
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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:40:00 CDT
From:         Bernie Asher <BA01@SWTEXAS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Russian writers

Listening to discussion of Dostoevsky's epilepsy, I was reminded of the scene in
_The Twelve Chairs_ where Ostap Bender coerces his companion to fake an
epileptic fit in an effort to solicit donations of pity.  I believe this was in
the book by Ill'f and Petrov as well as the movie.

I bought that book at the ripe old age of 14 under the impression that it would
have the same tone as the Mel Brooks movie.  To my disappointment it was a much
darker story.  I imagine it would benefit from a reading through more mature
eyes.

Bernie, ba01@swtexas.bitnet
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Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:30:13 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      Akhmatova story
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

is not a fable, I don't think.  It comes at the beginnn
ing of her long poem (title someone?), and it's pretty certain that
it happened. I have always found it a remarkable story--now that's
faith. Michael B.
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 20:02:00 PDT
From:         Michael Bruce McDonald <MCDONALD@OREGON.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: further dead fish digressions (sounds like a Richard
              Brautigan title)

Thanks, Ian; the Gould book sounds exactly like what i need right now . . .
do you think it might work in a writing class (to fuel discussion, at least?).

MMcDonald
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 12:13:37 EDT
From:         "James M. Ceravolo" <ceravolo@ICARUS.MONTCLAIR.EDU>
Subject:      Unsubscibe Help
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Would someone be kind enough to privately send me the LISTSERV address and brief
instructions on how to unsubcribe from this list.  Thank in advance.
							Jim C.
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 16:29:09 PDT
From:         LITERARY <LITERARY@CLOVIS.FELTON.CA.US>
Subject:      The fuehrer as a dumb fish - a closer

Reply-to: Tim.Bowden@p0.f509.n216.z1.fidonet.org (Tim Bowden)
Fido-To: all

> Tempting as it is, it is dangerous, IMHO, to dismiss Hitler's
> cruel, insensitive, and psychotic behavior as lack of
> intelligence.

Sure glad I didn't try to do that.  I was on the other side -
trying to establish that such ill-mannered behavior was not
itself a sign of intelligence.

Why, anybody who went through the 80's in America will realize
how mindless albeit compelling can be a revolution of the
disaffected middle class!


Oh, dear.  I do hope I haven't wandered off-topic...
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