From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: Rape Oil as transport fuel
Keywords: biofuel rape transport Europe
Date: 15 Dec 92 21:16:31 GMT
Organization: Circle 'C' Shellfish Ranch, Shores-of-the-Pacific, California

In article <Bz5Lz4.80z@ccsun.strath.ac.uk> clcs26@ccsun.strath.ac.uk writes:
>
>	The most promising is a form of diesel derived from rape
>	seed crops. It can be burnt in a standard diesel engine
>	without problem and offers no lead, no sulphur dioxide,
>	and importantly, no net CO2 production.

Most plant oils have a slightly higher affinity for metals than
number 2 diesel oil.  Have there been long term corrosion tests
done on rape seed oil that show it to be a non-problem?

I was quite willing to run a few gallons of soybean oil through
my diesel, since it had 170,000 miles on it already.  But if it
was a new Mercedes 300 TD under warrantee, other folks would 
likely be reluctant ...

>	Leaders in Europe are Austria (much troubled by Germany-
>	Italy through traffic pollution), where 40% of oil seed
>	production is turned into biodiesel; 

Hmmm, 40% of oil seed production, but what percent of DIESEL
consumption is that?  i.e. if 40% of seed oil gives a 5% seed
oil/95% diesel oil blend, then you don't gain much...  Any figures
on how large a fraction of diesel fuel consumption is seed oil
based?  Do they blend the seed oil, ala gasohol, or do they have
pumps for #2 diesel and pumps for Rape Seed oil?

>	and Italy where a 
>	private company has begun production and are successful
>	-ly exploiting the growing market.

Again, is it a blend, or a straight seed oil?  Also, what are the
relative prices?

>	I would be interested to hear what is going on in the US
>	with respect to biofuels.

Not much.  With gasoline at $1.20/gallon and diesel at $1.15/gallon
it isn't of much interest.  The local discount store has soybean
oil at about $2.50/gallon, so that kind of puts a lid on the price
of diesel fuel for me ;-)  but at double the cost of #2 diesel, it
isn't getting much interest.

I ran my truck on soybean for a while.  (And on Crisco, a kind of 
hydrogenated oil that looks like synthetic lard, which it is in a way.
I had to 'cut' it with kerosene to get it liquified... And on 30 wt
motor oil, both new and used... and on some other stuff...)

Mostly it is just backyard tinkerers like me who feed something to
their diesel and find that it works OK, then find that no one cares
because they see no reason to run a fuel that costs 2-3x #2 diesel.

At the height of the 'oil crisis' in the late '70's there was a 
professor at U.C. Davis that was researching making synthetic 
crude oil from Euphorbia Lathyris (sp?) plants grown on marginal
land.  He could make 'crude' at about $45/bbl.  This was very 
interesting when crude hit $50/bbl, but completly pointless with
crude at $22/bbl.  Don't know whatever became of him, but his 
research should still be on file in the library...

>	It seems to me that the US is often well ahead us slow 
>	Europeans in terms of environmental legislation and 
>	incentives, despite (because of) being the heaviest
>	pollutors.

We also have very low fuel costs due to moderate levels of taxation.
(I have trouble calling the taxes 'low' since they are about 30%
of the fuel cost at the pump ... 1/3 tax isn't 'low', but by European
standards, it isn't 'high' either ... I guess 300% tax makes 30%
look like a free ride ;-)

With the fuel costs low, there is little incentive to substitute.
We know how.  We have the land to grow it.  We have no reason to
run on $2.50/gallon plant oil when people can eat it instead and
there is $1.15/gallon #2 diesel in abundance from the Saudi fields...

Now, if there was a significant air quality difference from it, the
Peoples State of California Air Resources Board (CARB) would like
to know about it so they could mandate it's use...  but I've not
heard of any such claim.  My truck did smell much nicer on a 50%
blend of soybean/#2 diesel, but at 100% soybean it put out A LOT
of smoke at idle (that smelled like burned french fries ;-)

The smoke at idle may not be a problem with Rape Oil, I think it
had to do with the higher viscosity of Soybean oil and it higher
flash point.  A 'minor' change of injectors should solve it (I have
a turbo diesel that is a low compression beast, it may also not
be a problem in diesel engines with a 30 or 40:1 compression ratio...)
It was not a problem in blends, which is why I'm interested in 
the nature of the European fuels - blended or straight...

California is presently mandating the use of 'oxygenated' fuels
in gasoline engines.  This means either ethanol or MTBE blends
of about 5% (and the ethanol may or may not be a 'bio fuel').

If a similar benefit can be claimed from bio-diesel, then I'd
expect to see it at a pump near here as soon as the CARB found out...

>	The recent GATT talks are not trivial to this debate.

It will be a very interesting time when people are forced to
compete for food with cars...  How well would the Somolia relief
effort go if the people of Europe/America were told that they
would have to drive less to 'free up the land' for food production?

What about if it were a less spectacular example?  How would you
feel about having the price of wheat double due to acreage converted
to rapeoil production?  What about if you lived in a 3rd world 
country, then what would you think about a doubling of wheat prices
caused by 1st world drivers?

This is a very real possibility.  The quantity of oil consumed by
vehicles is staggaring.  If #2 diesel ever hits $2.60/gallon, there
is going to be a rise in demand for soybean oil that the present
agricultural systems would be hard pressed to meet...

It has often given me pause that some prices for gasoline in Europe
were quoted at $3-4/gallon.  I kept wondering: "Why don't they get
a VW (or Mercedes or Peugeot or ..) diesel and by jugs of Soybean
oil at $2.50/gallon?"  It looks like the Europeans have started
to see the potential of this...

>	Anyway, I would be pleased to hear what is happening
>	vis a vis biofuels in the states. (or elsewhere?)
>s.m.

There was some interest in Australia during the '70s.  I don't 
know where it is today.  I have a newspaper clipping filed in 
the garage somewhere about an Australian ship running on plant oils.

The bottom line is:  Nothing will happen with bio-diesel until such
time as: 1)  It is cheaper than #2 diesel oil.  or 2)  it is shown
to be significantly cleaner burning. or 3)  Someone gets a major
case of political correctness hots and forces it on an unwilling public.

1 is very unlikely as long as the Saudi's like us.  We are very motivated
to keep them liking us, and they are very motivated to keep our troops
available for hire.  I don't see #1 happening for about 15-25 years...

2 is a possible, but would take about 5 years of 'study' before it could
be adopted, if in fact the bio-diesel can be shown 'cleaner'.

3 Might happen, but unlikely.  Our politicians go off in strange directions
from time to time, but they usually don't think about diesel oil as one
of them and the trucking lobby pays them well to keep #2 available and
cheap...

I think that, for the US, bio-diesel is a non-issue for the next decade
or two.  Diesel engines are 'out of favor' with the liberal left since
they are esthetically unpleasant and pollute to much.  The conservative
right is not going to back a 'green fuel' as long as #2 diesel can
be had from the Saudi fields.  I see no constituency for it on either side.

BTW, I really do like playing with plant oil/#2 diesel blends in my 
truck, and really do like the economic advantages of diesel engines,
but I'm 'out of step' with the general population on that.  A Mercedes
diesel in the used market can be had for about a $4-5,000 discount from
the gasoline version around here!  (depending on year).  New diesels
are almost impossible to get in California, and almost as hard for 
dealers to sell if they had one...  The only real market for diesels
is the commercial trucking fleets, and they don't like to play with
funny fuels... they just want reliable cheap trouble free operations...

Hope this helps to put a California perspective on things...


-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.