HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: re. religious intolerance
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 08:29:13 CDT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:

> liam@brewich.hou.tx.us (Liam) writes:
> 
> >number two...the christians seem to be able to all agree on one 
> >thing, WE represent a comon enemy;
> 
> This is not a true statement.  Not all Christians consider pagans to be enemi
> Most mainline Christian groups, while they may go so far as to feel that non-
> Christians won't get into heaven, do not consider neo-pagans to be enemies.
> They would dump us in the same camp as Jews and other non-Christians.  That i
> they see us as wrong, but nice people all the same.  Of course, this only 
> applies to those Christians who have been exposed to us so as to get to know 
> what neo-paganism is.  It may be true that most of the *fundamentalist* 
> Christians will unite against pagans, but fundamentalist Christianity is no m
> the limit of Christianity than fundamentalist Wicca is the limit of Wicca.  I
> would *much* rather deal with most Christians than a fundamentalist Witch.  T
> Christians, even most of the fundie ones, will treat me with more respect.
> 
> The moral: people in glass houses...until we don't have people like Donal
> telling everyone else how unpagan they are we have no reason to claim moral
> superiority over any other religion or group of religions.

Did I ever say that any person here was not pagan? I would not even 
say that of you though I am tempted. I gave my personal definitions of 
the difference between... oh never mind. See previous post. 
I should not have to defend what was clearly labeled as MY OPINION, 
but I find myself attacked by what can only be difined as 
close-minded, rampant bullshit!

> 
>               Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
>                                Br'anArthur
> 
> Queer, Peculiar, Close-minded, Spiteful and Wyrd! :-)
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                   
Blessed Be



--------------------
Donal, Sysop of The Brewer's Witch BBS -- +1 713 272 7350
(Internet) donal@brewich.hou.tx.us  (Work) bill%pssi@lobster.hou.tx.us
(CIS) 76460,1443 
(SCA) Ld. Donal Dubh, IC of Dun Bruddair, B of the Stargate, K of Ansteorra
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim)
Subject: Re: Hurricane Andrew
Organization: California State University Sacramento
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 00:04:04 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.195803.24642@newssun.med.miami.edu> lori@newssun.med.miami.edu (Lori Herrington) writes:
>Merry meet all,
>
>I have been a reader of this news group for some time so I feel now I can call on all of you for assistance.
>
>Miami, has been devistated because of this storm.  Although I personally was not hit bad and even now have electricty, family and friends of mine have lost homes, cars and all worldly possestions.  we are all thankfull to be alive.
>
>I am pleading that you and your communities help the victims of this hurricane. Donate to the red cross,  send food and supplies, call your congress men,  pray for us.....everything will help and will be greatly apreaciated.  
>
>Remeber hte next time you get a tank of gas or get groceries...you are doing 
>something that thousands once also took for granted...and now have no home.
>
>thank you for whatever you can do....
>
>Lori

Lori,

I'm sure everyone on the net would be behind me in expressing our sadness
and concern over the loss so many in the Gulf region have incurred lately.

Here in California the Red Cross is also overburdened by the LA riots, the
wildfires, etc. and is desperately in need of funds. 

If you'd post an address, there are many here who would send a small donation
to help out. Maybe it might even add up to enough to make a difference.

Blessings and prayers to you and yours,

Murray 

-- 
Murray M. Altheim      "Ils ont l'orteil de Bouc, & d'un Chevreil l'oreille,
Instructional Consultant    La corne d'un Chamois, & la face vermeille
CSU, Sacramento          Comme un rouge Croissant: & dancent toute nuict
altheimm@csus.edu       Dedans un carrefour, ou pres d'une eau qui bruict."
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Subject: re: survey garbage
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 10:07:00 GMT

In article <VPHeqB1w165w@drc.UUCP>, alizard@drc.UUCP (alizard) writes...
>If Compuserve refuses to do anything about Chris Colvin, (still
>waiting for response), I think the logical response will be to mount
>a nationwide boycott of Compuserve. It isn't as if C-serve was the
>only on-line service, given the existence of MCI and America-On Line...
>and hundreds of public access Internet systems. 
> 
>If we can't protect ourselves from the annoyance of one unwanted
>individual here, how can we expect to get it together far enough to
>defend ourselves from the attacks of the fundamentalist Xtian community
>that Colvin is representing? 
> 
>Bright Blessings
>A.Lizard

Don't you think you're over reacting just a little bit.  They
posted one survey and 2 apologies (the second with a threat
which it sounds to me a desperate attempt to get people to 
leave them alone).  That is that I know of.

Why don't we try ignoring him.  If he doesn't post again
so much the better.  His questions to me seemed harmless
enough.  Quite frankly its the kind of questions people
who are Xtians and know little of paganism might ask.

Perhaps post or e-mailing an honest response instead of going
hyperbolic might do more to promote our cause.

I don't blame you for going hyper, but unless there is a 
serious problem, just let it die away.

--Tammy--

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Returned mail: Host unknown
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 00:23:04 GMT

radzy@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Lynne Radzykewycz) writes:
: 
: Me, I'm a part-Finnish, pagan-in-training, suburban, 87-Honda-driving,
: middle eastern dancer.  Hmm.... you sound a *lot* more interesting!

Ah. I am a middle-eastern drummer - in training, advanced beginner. If
I ever get down that way, I will try to remember to look you up.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek)
Subject: Re: Who/what is Baphomet?
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 02:05:35 GMT

Baphomet is the name of a god that Knights Templar were accused of praying
to an idol of.  The name probably comes from a degeneration of "Mahomet".
There is no evidence that the Templars actually *did* worship such a deity,
mind you.  There are some books that claim that Templars were (present tense,
at the time of the book) doing so, but they were written after there weren't
any more Templars, and are therefor as reliable as a WWN Exclusive interview
with Elvis.

--
Paul Ciszek, pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu | No nation was ever drunk when wine was
                                   | cheap.   -- Thomas Jefferson
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Subject: Re: Pagan music
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 07:03:05 GMT

Well folks, *my* favorite pagan music is by Heather Alexander.  She
and her SO write EXCELLENT stuff and IMHO she's one of the best singers
I've heard, if not *THE* best!  They both write lyrics and Heather writes
the music for it.  The songs are modern folk music with a Celtic flair
(Thanks, Lynne, for a great way of phrasing it!)

Last time this thread came up, Ben Cash posted a bit of the lyrics to
one of their songs (this one is by her SO):

      Creature of the Woods

      I am a Creature of the Woods
      Forsaken in my solitude
      My song is pleasure and is pain
      My song can drive a man insane
      So come with me, my pipes I'll play
      And we will dance till break of day

Ben: if you're still reading this group -- THANKS!  You did me a really
big favor by posting this!

For those of you in the San Francisco bay area, she sings on a reguar
basis in Half Moon Bay and in San Francisco.  Give yourselves a treat
and go see her sometime.  I'll be happy to give more specific info by
e-mail.

She's also doing something on September 5th (Saturday) in Portland Oregon,
along with Tempest.  If you can, go see it!  You'll be glad you did.
I *think* this is in conjunction with Firebird Arts and Music -- a
company which does filk and a little folk music.  The gig is at
1615 S.E. Alder in Portland, and you can get more info by calling
(503) 232-2759.

She also has tapes for sale.  Her "Midsummer" tape is wonderful.  She
was lead singer in the group Phoenyx, and their album _Keepers_Of_The_Flame_
is pretty good too.

If you go see her, tell her you heard about her from my posting!

Blessings to all!  Those of you who go see her gigs will create your
own!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
> Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in!
From: altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Templars not Masons <was: Re: Who/what is Baphomet?>
Date: 1 Sep 92 16:57:14 GMT
Organization: California State University Sacramento

In article <2AA2D891.25314@orion.oac.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>In article <1992Aug29.155139.302@access.digex.com> corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra) writes:
>>In article <BtqCJM.Ezo@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:
>>
>>>Umm, Masonry didn't exist back then, according to all the scholarship I've 
>>>seen which is not obviously conspiracy theory.  Eddie, can you help us out
>>>with a date for the origins of Masonry?
>>>
>>>              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
>>>                               Br'anArthur
>>
>>I had always heard that the Masons went as far back as Alexander the Great.
>>Maybe not the modern Masonic Temple as we know it (or as well as anyone not
>>a Mason can know it) today, or the Sottish Rites crew, but the basic premises
>>and such. 
>
>I'm kind of interested, too.  I've evidently not given them enough
>mental air time; they always seemed a little like Fred Flintstone's
>Loyal Order of Water Buffalos.  Seems I'm due for a reality check, huh?
>(I've also heard things about how they are closely related to the
>Mormons.)
>
>Blessings,
>Janis  

As far as I remember, they go back to the fire sale at Woolworth's on
August 13th, 67 B.C. when Joseph ben Gazoomie slapped Amid ben Gazonga's
wife because she had insulted his choice of sandal. The Gazoomies fled into
the Temple of Solomon and were protected by an order of religious knights
who called themselves the Order of the ProtoTemplars. This order's inner
circle was called the Moomesons, which translated from the Aramaic becomes
Masons. The prefix "Free" was added in the middle ages when Bubba ben
Gazoomie (not actually related to Joseph ben Gazoomie, as he had changed 
his name) started a blood and carrot cult that lasted well into the 1500's,
and later was connected with the Mormon church and Joseph ben Smith.

OK, maybe I'm a little more smiles than yesterday. I just made a plane
reservation to go visit my love in Vermont. Haven't seen her since April
and I'm a little nervous, but at least smiling. Thanks all for the 
encouragement.

Blessings to you all,

The Somewhat More Cheered Up Murray 

-- 
Murray M. Altheim      "Ils ont l'orteil de Bouc, & d'un Chevreil l'oreille,
Instructional Consultant    La corne d'un Chamois, & la face vermeille
CSU, Sacramento          Comme un rouge Croissant: & dancent toute nuict
altheimm@csus.edu       Dedans un carrefour, ou pres d'une eau qui bruict."
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Church of All Worlds?
From: wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 04:47:42 EDT
Organization: The Heart of Gold BBS, Lemont PA

mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings) writes:

>  They are one of the oldest Neo-Pagan groups in existance in North
> America. Their leader, Otter, is the one credited with coming up and
> defining the term "Neo-Pagan" for what he and others were doing. They've
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It would be fun to watch Bonewitz reading this......
From: mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Leaving the country for.....Alaska
Date: 4 Sep 92 16:49:29 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:

>Has anybody thought about Alaska.  I mean nobody in the lower
>48 ever thinks about Alaska as a real place where people live.
>{:-)}  It would probably be a great place for pagans.

>--Tammy--

According to my mother, who lives in Anchorage, one of the local malls
had an information kiosk.  A Wiccan group volunteered to help
staff it, and provided (among other things) information on paganism.
There was such a fuss from conservatives, notably Jerry Falwell of the
Anchorage Baptist Temple, that the entire kiosk was shut down.

There is an extremely vocal fundamentalist minority in Anchorage.  I
would *not* count on it as an easy place to be pagan.  The state is
Republican in most elections, though there are also some Libertarian
elected officials at the local level.

I don't know about rural Alaska, never having lived there.

Mary Kuhner mkkuhner@genetics.washington.edu
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: cerconeg@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: Gardenarian and Alexandrian Wicca
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:58:29 GMT

I wonder if someone could help me find a couple of books.

I am looking to find the differences between Gardenarian and Alexandrian
Wicca.  A friend of mine told me that I would have to get a book on each and do
the comparisons myself.  I was just wondering if anyone knew of such a book?

It would be greatly appreciated, and as always- thanks in advance.


---
CERCONEG@ULOWELL.WOODS.EDU  George (Thumper) Cercone

Conservatism is a state of mind- It can be cured.
From: leighann@sybase.com (Leigh Ann Hussey)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Pagan Population
Date: 24 Aug 92 18:00:10 GMT
Organization: Black Oak

In article <uTsVPB2w165w@fennec.sccsi.com> popec@fennec.sccsi.com (William C. Barwell) writes:
>Anyone know how many people listed 
>Pagan or Wicca as their religions in the recent census?

Unfortunately, MY census form didn't have a space for my religion on it.
Did anybody's else out there?

B*B
	- Leigh Ann


Leigh Ann Hussey 		leighann@sybase.com
CoG #151E
"Take no scorn to wear the Horn; it was the Crest when you were born!"
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Scott Mayo no longer on Net
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 23:53:23 GMT

ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson) writes:
: 
:   And, "Why do so many pagans feel that they have the 'one true
: way'? ..."
: 
:   Bill, is that your response to the suggestion that Scott might
: have been telling Pagans that he "sincerely believe[d]
: that ... [P]agan beliefs are wrong." ?

No, it was a rhetorical question. But some of the same people who
are glad to see that Scott is gone are the same people who feel that
all Christianity is wrong/bad. That was what I was alluding.

:   I hardly think that responding to an accusation that your
: beliefs are WRONG indicates a "one true way" attitude.

True, I could have stated it better. Thank you for the clarification.

:   I complained about being told that my religion's not
: "real" and got flamed for religious bigotry.

Hm. You must be interpreting the posting differently than I have.
Quite possible - I have never been expert at reading between the
lines.

:   This network's SWIMMING with people who tried to point
: out a wrong and got flamed for their efforts -- usually getting
: accused of doing exactly what they're trying to defend
: themselves from.

That does sometimes happen. It frequently is due to a misunderstanding.

:   Fighting for your civil rights is NOT reverse discrimination.

Correct.

Bill
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: republican delema
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:18:27 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.192330.24250@news.iastate.edu> txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:
>I think that the best solution to the problems with the dominit partys and
>groups like that belonging to Pat Robensen is to form a Pagen party. fight
>fire with fire. There are bound to be enufe pagens out there to make this
>work. With a unified party even the smalist wimper can be hurd from a large
>enife group. There are probly enufe pagens out there that the funding could
>easaly be suplyed to such a canadite to put there face and vews out in public
>and make them well known. We could gain the first pagen presadent.
>
>ELF-KIN

Not in this lifetime.  When stuff like this happens, it's best to get
out of the way and let it happen.  Well, maybe not BEST, but there isn't
one more thing I can think of doing that stands even a reasonable chance
of success.

Like I said, when a boulder starts rolling downhill, you don't stand
there and try to stop it -- you get the hell out of harm's and its way.
It will stop eventually, when it hits bottom.  No, this kind of
reasoning doesn't cheer me up either.

Besides, I don't like the idea of combatting the Repubs' garbage by
apeing it, in even the smallest degree.  Hell, we can't even decide if
we should capitalize a damned letter or not!  (How about this --
capitalize it if you want to, otherwise don't.)  We got OUT of the
mainstream (whatever that is) -- or most of us did -- because we didn't
like the dogmatic implications of having other people up there saying
what was best for us.  We didn't WANT unity; we wanted diversity.  This
kind of pseudo-organizing is quite valid, but won't work in modern
society, which is set up to handle hierarchical(sp?) systems and give
them the advantage.  It's similar to the 8-5 work day and why it drives
working women up walls; it was set up for and by men who could afford to
leave the house and the family for 12 hours at a stretch because there
was someone home keeping it running.  Working women simply CAN'T succeed
in that environment; a crucial ingredient in its development and the
success of the people constrained to work in it was the housebound
status of one member of the married couple.

Similarly, I think, the current system is set up to insure that
something as diverse and diffuse as Paganism or ANYthing that organizes
differently cannot succeed.  It's like having, well . . . a flying
contest and making it open to every animal in the forest.  Sure, the
snakes can join in and maybe even kid themselves that they stand a
chance, but the smart money's on the birds.    

Blessings,
Janis the Unusually Metaphorical Today
From: mad@spirit.spirit.clearpoint.com (Michael Davis)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Pat Robertson quote (good for a nervous laugh)
Date: 27 Aug 92 13:53:56 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Walking Dead Man Bar and Grille

On 26 Aug 92 15:39:29 GMT, darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie) said:

Tuneweaver> Seen on rec.humor:

Tuneweaver>  Religous broadcaster Pat Robertson, who is always good
Tuneweaver> for a laugh, is actively campaigning against Iowa's
Tuneweaver> proposal to put the Equal Rights Amendment on their state
Tuneweaver> constitution. Wire Reports reports he said in a letter
Tuneweaver> last month that the ERA is part of a "feminist agenda"
Tuneweaver> that "is not about equal rights for women." Instead, he
Tuneweaver> wrote, "it is about a socialist, anti-family political
Tuneweaver> movement that encourages women to leave their husbands,
Tuneweaver> kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy
Tuneweaver> capitalism and become lesbians."

Tuneweaver> How can anybody take this guy seriously??

Destroy capitalism!?  Now that's really going too far!

Tuneweaver> Richard
Tuneweaver> (Tuneweaver)

--
-mad

Michael A. Davis		mad@spirit.clearpoint.com

Clearpoint Research Corp. / 135 Parkwood Drive / Hopkinton, MA 01738
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Subject: Re: Freedom of Religion
Keywords: Civil Rights, Pagan
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:03:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.171221.16943@csus.edu> altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim) writes:
>
>I hate to tell you Al, but I've read a number of articles, including one
>interviewing a former NSA employee, and it seems that the NSA has little
>problem getting around most of these attempts at encryption.  In fact, I
>kinda get the feeling that the reason they are fighting so hard now is that
>someone has proposed a new encryption standard that they don't have a key
>for (YET).  Just my personal observation -- in this area there are no facts.

 Well, I hate to tell you, but to the knowledge of everyone I've talked
to, professional and not, they still haven't found a way to easily crack
RSA encrytption. Besides, even if they did, it would take quite a bit of
computer time. I receive a lot of e-mail. If it was all encrypted, they
would have WEEKS of time to crack it all.

Wassail,
Grendel

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Al Billings - Anthropology Undergrad - Admin for the Troth-l Mailing List | 
| SysOp of The Sacred Grove BBS (206)634-1980 -=- mimir@u.washington.edu    |
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From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: distilling or something like that
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 31 Aug 92 00:16:27 GMT

There's a patch of honeysuckle near where I live on campus, and I was
wondering if any of you herbal-type peepuhls could give me a quickie
5-line exposition on how I can boil it and distill some kind of
honeysuckle water out of it.  I have access to a chemstores in PS II
(the physical sciences building here) so if I need glassware, I can get
it.

If you know of any books I can read, please suggest them, but right now,
my car isn't registered, so I can't get to any bookstores, and at any
rate, they're REALLY far away from me (I'm in Orange County -- behind
the Orange Curtain as someone once said), so if you can give me a very
quick outline of what to do, I'd appreciate it.  If it's too long to
explain, just give me a book title and don't bother.

T'anks moochly,
Janis   

P.S.: For those who corresponded with me about hair, I finally got the
ends cut off, and it looks much better.  I think I finally found someone
I trust.  If you are in the OC area, her name is Ingrid Starrs (which
struck me as a wonderful name) and she cuts at the Toba Salon, which is
in Dana Point.  I told her I was paranoid about letting a cutter get
near my hair, and she actually cut a little off, showed it to me, and
said, "Is this much okay?"  Heaven!  At any rate, hopefully I can get my
mop down to the floor post haste now that I've found someone who won't
turn me into Sinead O'Connor as soon as they see the mop I have.