From: jonh@david.wheaton.edu (Jonathan Hayward)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Question on the Bible
Date: 30 Sep 92 05:46:38 GMT
Organization: Wheaton College, IL

In article <Sep.27.21.15.41.1992.741@athos.rutgers.edu> saruman@cats.ucsc.edu (Friend of Entropy) writes:
>	Well, I came to a conclusion recently that i wished to share,
>and hopefully get a reaction on.  I cannot possibly accept Christianity
>simply because its tennants, as expressed in the bible, violate many
>of my most deeply held beliefs.  That is, that women and men are equal,
>and that slavery is inherently wrong.  

Dear "Friend of Entropy":

  In order to say this, it is necessary to (intentionally or, as I suspect is
your case, unintentionally) reject certain elements of Christianity.

  To a Christian, the coming of Christ was a major turning point in human
history, at least as much as the invention of fire is to a scientist/technician
like myself.  Fire is the cornerstone and foundation of technology, and the
terminal you are using to read this message exists through fire.  When fire
came to humanity, all previously existing technologies still existed, but there
was something completely new and awesomely different.

  Before Christ came, certain laws and structures were incomplete.  Christians
believe that Christ's coming made them complete.  A canonical example of this
incompletion becoming complete is what Christ said about vengeance: before
Christ, there was a requirement for vengeance.  That requirement was a limiting
requirement (an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth in a society where
capital revenge would be more common), but was incomplete.  Christ, in coming,
said not only to exact _no_ revenge for injuries against you, but to _forgive_
the one who wrongs you "seven times seventy".  This is augmented in other
places by commands to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.

  Just as forgiveness and mercy were completed as Christ came, so was work
towards an egalitarian society.  So the uneducated, slaves, women, gentiles and
barbarians (note: I'm using barbarian in its original sense of one who does not
speak Greek, not in the current sense of muscle head), poor, and downtrodden
were no longer told "You are inferior, get out of my way." but rather accepted.
Jesus, God incarnate, washed his disciples feet in a display of ultimate
humility, and issued commands to comfort the sick, visit the imprisoned, love
the unloved.  In Revelation curses are called down on the one who fails to love
the least.  Hence it should not be a surprise that the good news of Jesus'
birth was first announced to shepherds (in that society, shepherds were seen
somewhat as a cross between used car salesman and a "lazy bum" stereotype.
Their testimony was not valid in a court of law), that he loved and healed
lepers (remember how Ryan White and other early AIDS victims were treated, how
much hatred and fear there was?  That's about the equivalent of a leper in
Bible times), or that the first European Christian was a woman.

  As to slavery - that's a slightly more delicate issue, but I'd like to point
out that the institution of slavery in Biblical times was nowhere hear as
brutal and demeaning as the American system of slavery.  Slaves were permitted
to run for public office, and many were treated almost like family.  One thing
that happened often enough for laws to mention it was that a slave, offered
freedom, might choose to continue to be a slave, for love of his/her master.  
Jesus did not immediately destroy every evil in existence, did not heal every
sick person in the world, and did not directly denounce slavery - but he did
compare himself to one who purchased slaves and gave them their freedom.  I'd
like to quote a passage from I Corinthians:

	CO1 12:12  For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the
	members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

	CO1 12:13  For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether
	we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all
	made to drink into one Spirit.

	CO1 12:14  For the body is not one member, but many.

	CO1 12:15  If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not
	of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

	CO1 12:16  And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not
	of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

	CO1 12:17  If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If
	the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

	CO1 12:18  But now hath God set the members every one of them in the
	body, as it hath pleased him.

	CO1 12:19  And if they were all one member, where were the body?

	CO1 12:20  But now are they many members, yet but one body.

	CO1 12:21  And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of
	thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

	CO1 12:22  Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be
	more feeble, are necessary:

	CO1 12:23  And those members of the body, which we think to be less
	honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely
	parts have more abundant comeliness.

	CO1 12:24  For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the
	body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which
	lacked.

	CO1 12:25  That there should be no schism in the body; but that the
	members should have the same care one for another.

	CO1 12:26  And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with
	it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

  While slavery was not explicitly condemned, any system of slavery that 
would be acceptable to Christianity would have to be one where the slaves were
treated with love, as brothers and sisters of their masters.  Such a system of
slavery would probably be similar to _some_ businesses or, in particular,
volunteer organizations, where the "slave" is treated with all love and
respect, not degraded, enough so that (s)he would not want to leave with or
without restraints present.  I'm not aware of any system completely like that,
and will readily state that the American system was quite evil and failed to
come anywhere close.  IF (mondo IF) there were a system of slavery in accordance
with the outlined guidelines, would you still consider it to be inherently
evil?

(by the way - in the cultural context the NT passage you quoted about women
keeping their silence, it was assumed that a women who acted boldly and spoke
up was a prostitute.  Somewhat like US indecent exposure laws that require
women but not men to wear shirts in public places: there is nothing
intrinsically evil about a woman being topless, _but_here_ there are
connotations that are assumed for a woman who appears without a shirt but not
for a man who appears without a shirt.  So such laws are passed and enforced by
people who are not thinking about placing unfair restrictions on women)

  One of the ideas at the heart of Christianity is the equality of all humans,
so that the one who appears least is treated as well as the one who appears the
greatest.  Throughout the New Testament many times passages appear against
discrimination.  I find it to be very good that the necessity of loving all, and
not just those like you, is something that you see as a moral necessity.  

  Continue to love all people.

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