From: paigen@tfs.com (David Paigen)
Subject: Re: Kindergarten Problems
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 20:31:25 GMT

CREECH@LSTC2VM.stortek.com (Teresa Creech) writes:

>I need some help.

All of this is IMHO, of course.

Background:
>My daughter Katie is 6 years old (her birthday is Dec 6, 1985), so
> [deleted]
>Katie has had trouble in school since day one.  The teacher doesn't seem
>to have the ability to discipline a child and believes everything she is
>told.

To begin with, it sounds like Katie's kindergarten teacher is a bit on
the inexperienced side WRT kids far from the middle of the bell curve.

>To the teachers credit, she is trying to be more firm with
>Katie, but it is very difficult for her.

Good.

>During the two weeks between report card time and teacher conference time, we
>had many long talks with Katie about her behavior and what was expected.
>We checked her progress daily and gave her little rewards (a sticker, a piece
>of gum, or getting to stay up an extra 15 minutes).  We also told her that
>if she participated and behaved over the next two weeks and got a good teacher
>conference, that Mom would take Katie (and only Katie) out to dinner at a
>real restaurant.  Well, at teacher conference time, the teacher couldn't find
>ANYTHING bad to say about Katie.  The conference was boring.  Katie was
>participating, having a good attitude, etc etc.  Katie got her dinner out with
>just Mom and Katie's best friend.

This sounds great, but how were you checking progress?  From later comments,
I would assume that you were asking Katie.  You have already established
that Katie is an accomplished manipulator, and that the teacher is
uncomunicative.  Without reliable data to show improvement, rewards may
be difficult to justify.

>Since then I have quizzed Katie in great detail every day about class.
>Katie seems to be doing better and does her homework with less fuss.  She
>is learning things, I can tell that from incidental stuff she says.  Right
>now she is studying eggs (they are hatching duck or chicken eggs) and Katie
>informed me that she had hatched inside of me. [snip] This kid is THINKING,
>even if she doesn't seem to be listening, she is thinking about what she is
>hearing.

This does sound like progress.  Katie is obviously a sharp cookie.

>I think that from now on I am going to call the
>teacher EVERY WEEK and check on Katie, it's obvious that the teacher won't
>call me no matter how Katie is behaving.  I think that report card time is
>too late to be finding out about problems.

[light bulb]  Yes, yes, and yes.  Regardless of what the teacher SHOULD do,
you have to be able to get the information that you need.  From other
comments I would guess that Katie's teacher may not be too comfortable
talking to you about problems Katie is having, you may have to pry this out
of (him? her?).  If this makes the teacher uncomfortable, tough.  Katie is
at a much more impressionable age than her teacher :-)

>Katie is sometimes fidgety and can't sit still.  The teacher suggested
>getting her tested for Attention Deficit Disorder, but Katie CAN sit still
>and concentrate for long periods of time, I've seen her.  She loves TV and can
>watch a whole movie.  I don't want to get her labeled, so I'm hesitant to get
>her tested.

And yet you say...

>Katie is a smart girl - I THINK that she is really bright and want to have her
>tested, but her father won't consider it.

A label is a label, whether it is a "good" one or a "bad" one.  I think
that, in this case, ADD is a straw that the teacher is grasping at.  It
sounds like Katie is a smart kid, and bordom is the real problem.  More on
testing later...

>Katie is also a loner and
>like to work and play on her own.  Being in a group and participating is hard
>on her.

more clues...

>For the first half of the year, Katie wouldn't participate in 'circle time',
>wouldn't do the drawing/writing that was expected of them, wouldn't listen
>to stories, etc... 

This is a problem.  IMHO, "loner" is synonymous with "does not work and play
well with others."  "Loner" people are lonely people, I know from personal
experience.  The sooner Katie learns to be social, the better.  Someday
she will have to learn, and I suspect that it is much easier at 5 than at 25.

This also impacts on the "label" stuff from before.  Right now she is not
getting along well with her classmates and is looking for reasons why.  If
you give her a label of whatever-it-turns-out-to-be, what she will hear is
that she is different from her classmates.  This will push her farther
into the 'loner' mindset.  Here is another clue:

> [discussion of younger twins] Ironically, Katie is very good with the boys and
>plays well with them.  I think that she enjoys being the boss and pretending
>to be their teacher.

Here she is setting up her play not as a group, but as a group and her.
Granted, there is a lot of difference between Katie and her brothers, and it
is natural for the eldest to take charge, but again, Katie is setting herself
apart as "other."  In this case, I don't think that is a problem, just a
hint at what else might be going on.

Katie is also a perfectionist - she wants to do everything perfectly.
>She also won't do something if she knows that she can't do it perfect the first
>time.

Another problem.  If she continues with this attitude, she will never learn
any skills, whether they be skipping rope, playing tennis, programming a
computer, playing violin, whatever.  Also, by maintaining such unrealistic
standards for herself, she will destroy her self confidence because she will
never "be good enough" and will be unwilling to practice to improve herself.

>She is always asking her big sister or one of us to draw something for
>her, because we can do it better.

Stop doing things for her that she can do.  She has to learn how to learn.

Katie doesn't have red hair, does she?   :-)

It sounds like Katie has a very strong personality.  While this will be
very helpful to her, without the proper tempering, her personality will
generate a number of anti-social behaviors as well as the beneficial ones.

>Does anyone have any similar experience?  Any suggestions?  I am sorry
>that this note is so long.  I guess I had more to say than I thought.
>Thanks,
>Teresa

Sorry to offer so many of my own (lay) opinions, but after having grown
up as "smart," "a loner," and "other," your story brought to mind vivid
recolections.

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David Paigen		      TRW Financial Systems		paigen@tfs.com
      "Lay on, McDuff, and damn'd be he who first cries, 'hold, enough!'"
Newsgroups: misc.kids