From: hartigan@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: The problem of evil (God ain't what you think!)
Date: 27 Aug 92 12:57:44 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <adams.714863266@spssig>, adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
> hartigan@ac.dal.ca writes:
> 
>>In article <adams.714835421@spssig>, adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
> 
>>> No, not at all.  For if there were no possibility for them to chose evil,
>>> then there would be no free will!  In order for a person to freely chose
>>> not to do evil, the real, logical possibility of evil must exist.  Thus, in
>>> order for free will to truly exist, evil must truly exist.  And there must
>>> be a real chance that it can be chosen.
> 
>>See what I mean? God could tell our hypothetical people: "Look, if you do
>>X, Y, Z, that will be evil. Don't do it. "  They now have the choice to do
>>X, Y, Z, or not.   BUT - do they want to?   God created these hypothetical
>>people in such a way that they DON'T. So they freely choose not to. 
>>Evil remains an unrealized possiblity in this world. 
> 
>>(Note: if you smell a fish here, you're onto something...!)
> 
> I do smell a fish! ;-)  In your logic again.  If God created people who
> would ALWAYS chose the right way, they aren't truly free!
> 
>>> Clearly evil was created by God, along with everything else. 
> 
>>Thank you! I thought I'd never hear a Christian admit this inescapable 
>>conclusion of their doctrine. Glad to be wrong, for once...:)
> 
> Hey, I read the owner's manual.  Isaiah 45:7 is darn clear.  And Job backs
> it up 100%, as does ex-nihilo creation.  God *MUST* be responsible.
> 
> Are you new around here?  I've been saying this for over a year on the net
> now...;-)
> 
>>God, being omnipotent, could create ONLY people who would freely love and
>>worship him. To deny this is to deny his omnipotence. BUT - he didn't. 
>>He created people who he knew would freely chooseto reject him. 
>>Since he CHOSE to do this - God must WANT this to be the case. As far as
>>I can see, there is no way out of this, except to revise your theology.
> 
> If there was no real chance of turning away, then there is no real free
> will.  There must be a real, logical possiblity that the person will turn
> away for there to be free will.  If there is no such possibility, then
> there is no free will.  Your version of creation has no such *real*
> possibility.
> 
>>Better accept it - either God is not omnipotent, or he's not omniscient,
>>or he's not very nice, or he's so far beyond our comprehension that your
>>theology is worthless, or he is just a flawed rational construct.
> 
> He's so far beyond comprehension that my theology is effectively worthless.
> But it's all I've got to work with based on the witness of Scripture.
> 
> To quote Him: "My thoughts are higher than your thoughts, and my ways are
> higher than your ways"
> 
>  -Steve
> --
>  The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
>                         -------------------
>      adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
>      Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism