HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: Ignition Systems
Keywords: ignition GSE launcher relay continuity
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:06:31 GMT

In article <5677@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:

>> Relays are okay, but transistors are better. Why not go solid state?
>
>Well, the Tripoli pads at the National Sport Launch went through about
>six 10A fuses!  Maybe there are transistors that can deliver that kind
>of power, but they sound like something that might carry a price tag I 
>can't hack...

Hmmmm...

Not really...I'd say about 3 IRF511 MOSFETs ($2 each at 
Radio Shack) will be more than adequate...

Remember that R/C speed controllers can handle tens of 
amps. The FAI Electric Glider class uses something like 
27 or 28 NiCad cells, 1400-1700 maH for about 30-60 
seconds of motor run. Thats about 60-100 amps? They are
solid state devices.




-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu (A. Roger Wilfong)
Subject: Re: 32mm RMS Usage
Organization: U of Michigan - Information & Networking Services
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 11:44:31 GMT

In article <10490015@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM> bo@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Bo Viger) writes:
>Has anyone out there thought about the possible usages of the Aerotech 32mm
>RMS glider motor/reloads in rockets?
>
>Looking at the thrust curves of the 32mm reloads, it might be interesting to
>use 2 or more of these special purpose (no delay/ejection capability) motors
>in a cluster around a standard, central (read: ejection capable) motor.
>
>For example: putting a couple of F23W Skywriter reloads in strap-ons (ala
>Titan 3C) or internal in a larger diameter airframe would give you an 
>additional 22 lbs take-off boost followed by 15 seconds of heavy-duty
>skywriting smoke; just the thing to help you track that really high-flying
>bird!
>
>Or, you could load the boosters with the G12T reload for a full 8 second
>burn (albeit, low thrust). On this one, the core motor would also need to
>have a long burn or be available with a VERY long delay (over 10-12 seconds).
>
>You may have noticed that you don't see the 32mm RMS motor listed separately
>by distributors; for now it's only available in the Phoenix RC Glider kit.
>Seems feasible to be able to procure these thru the "service/replacement"
>pipeline, but I have no idea how much they might charge for it. Plus, one
>has to address the fact that no one (that I've found) makes a 32mm ID motor
>or body tube.
>
>Bo Viger
>Tripoli #1864
>
A couple of glider flyers in our club have tried to buy just the 32mm motor
from Aerotech for their own designs and have been turned down.  I don't know if
this was because Aerotech is putting their entire production into the Pheonix
or they jsut won't sell them serepately.  So you might have a problem getting
them.
From: hack@aio.jsc.nasa.gov (Edmund Hack)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Ignition Systems
Date: 17 Aug 1992 18:32:19 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: NASA Johnson Space Center

I am looking at building my own ignition system for both Model Rocket
and HPR use.  I have plans from a local Tripoli member for a relay-based
system.  The basic concept for those who haven't seen one is to use a
two part system.  A hand controller is used to close a relay located at
the launch pad, which is connected to a motorcycle battery at the pad.
This allows one to be a good distance from the pad at launch time (up to
300 feet) without the resistive losses killing the launch current.

My question is making the continuity check safe for flashbulbs and
electric matches.  The circuit that I have shows a Radio Shack LED in
series with a 1k ohm resistor.  This gives a current of about 12 ma
with a 12v battery. An LED will require about 10ma to light from what I 
can glean from data books.

Any suggestions?

-- 
| Edmund Hack - Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co. - Houston, TX
| hack@aio.jsc.nasa.gov    SpokesPersonp(Me,or(NASA,LESC)) = NIL
| "There's BlackJack and Poker and the Roulette wheel ... Viva Las Vegas!"
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: jsvrc@rc.rit.edu (J A Stephen Viggiano)
Subject: Re: What do I need to get something into orbit?
Organization: RIT Research Corp
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:37:02 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.170240.28620@SSD.intel.com> cower@SSD.intel.com (Rich Cower) writes:

>Does anyone have any information on getting a model rocket into
>orbit? No payload, just the rocket would be enough.

In article <BsxJw1.1v2@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) replies:

>And if you did, how would you know you succeeded? 8-) No payload, remember?

Actually, Trip Barber discussed this at (I believe it was) one of the last
MITCONs. '79 or '80, I think, although I wasn't there -- my section president
told me about it. Trip's report later appeared in _Model_Rocketeer_, or
AmSpam, or whatever it was called then.

Trip suggested heat-sensitive paint -- paint that changed color when exposed
to different temperatures. I think he found something that changed color
more or less permanently. He explained aerodynamic heating, and provided
a few figures for various Mach numbers.

Or you could do what Lonnie Reese did when he came out with his Thunderbolt.
He had the Missouri Highway Patrol clock his bird with radar.
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: HPR thoughts & questions...
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:51:57 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <Bt8xLL.GxD@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:

> Just what are these "piston launchers" I've seen mentioned now 
> and again?

Imagine a body tube sliding over a dowel, with ignition wires coming out 
one end of the dowel.  You attach your model to the body tube somehow (on 
my models, it fits between the engine and the outer tube) and then drop it 
down over the prepped igniter.  Use a string or some other mechanism to stop 
the travel of the loose tube before it slides off the dowel (wouldn't want
to launch it along with the model)!  This system allows you to use not
only the reaction of the engine at launch, but also the pressure created
by its exhaust gases to give it an extra POP into the air.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: bo@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Bo Viger)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:43:31 GMT
Subject: Re: More DOT Info (3)
Organization: HP Fort Collins, CO
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets

>rbs@cyclops.micr.Virginia.EDU (Robert B. Sisk) writes:
>
>#: 102466 S8/Sport Rocketry
>    06-Aug-92  11:18:27
>Sb: #102159-DOT raids again
>Fm: J. Patrick Miller 72077,65
>
>One of the reasons I believe there's an investigation is due to the UPS. UPS
>monitors Estes' monthly shipments.  When these shipments are down from some
>threshold value, the UPS notifies DOT of a suspected HazMat violation. UPS has
>been doing this "policing" since it implemented the $5 HazMat shipping fee and
>is trying to keep manufacturers and dealers from ignoring the regulations and
>thus saving the expense of this fee.
.
.
.
>At the same time the UPS began filing reports on Estes and the other
>manufacturers regarding Class C shipments.  The UPS charges a $5 Hazmat
>shipping fee.  Lots of smaller operations (not just rockets) are stopping the
>labeling of this shipments to avoid having to pay this fee.  The reason is that
>the smaller operations are selling product at the margin and this fee is a
>burden.

I've ordered and received a number of rocket motor orders via Parcel Post. I
only do this when the distributor is close (like High Sierra) so as not to
excessively delay arrival. Parcel Post does not have the $5 HazMat charge for
Class C products like UPS does. These boxes have arrived clearly labeled as
containing flammable solids (red & white striped label). High Sierra is the
lowest margin (30% off list, at least with Aerotech) that I know of. They
aren't hiding any flammable solid shipments (I think the Orem Utah UPS folks
know them quite well by now  ;-)  from anyone, they just offer Parcel Post
as an alternative to folks who want to save the $5 and don't care how long
it takes to get there.

Perhaps UPS is seeing fewer shipments due to the competition from Parcel Post?

Bo Viger
Tripoli # 1864
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott)
Subject: Re: DOT/CPSC/FAA Situation
Organization: NEC America, Radio Software Dept
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:27:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.194314.7184@primerd.prime.com>, Jim Cook <J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM> writes:
|> 
|> ...(lots of good comments deleted)...
|>
|> If you wish to know more, send J. Pat Miller some email.  He can be reached
|> at <72077.65@compuserve.com>.  But please don't assume the NAR is anti-HPR.
|> From where I sit, it looks like the NAR is doing more for HPR through the
|> legal channels than the HPR organizations are doing.  No flames; just that
|> that's the way it looks.

Please don't misunderstand this post.  I agree with all that you said.  I just
want to point out that the NAR is definitely NOT anti-HPR.  It is, in fact,
(as an organization) quite pro-HPR.  There was a time when that was not true,
but that is in the past.  Also, I consider the NAR to be one of the HPR 
organizations.  Your post seems to imply that they aren't.  I received my
high power certification from the NAR before I was a Tripoli member.  I am
a member of the DARS NAR section.  We fly mixed low/high power twice a 
month.  We're in the airspace of one of the worlds busiest airports (DFW)
so we don't have a real high ceiling or fly L-and-up monsters, but we fly
advanced rockets (H/I/J/K) and can fly up to 5000 feet.  All NAR sanctioned.

And I'm not knocking Tripoli at all.  I'm a member.  It's a fine organization.
It has a GREAT magazine (beats AmSpam easily).

============================================================================
Buzz McDermott                   Internet: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com
NAR  13559
TRA   1785
============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: jsvrc@rc.rit.edu (J A Stephen Viggiano)
Subject: Re: Ignition Systems
Keywords: ignition GSE launcher relay
Organization: RIT Research Corp
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 20:17:09 GMT

In article <5677@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:

>Well, the Tripoli pads at the National Sport Launch went through about
>six 10A fuses!  Maybe there are transistors that can deliver that kind
>of power, but they sound like something that might carry a price tag I 
>can't hack...

Yes, there *are* transistors that can handle currents like this (and more!);
they're called "Power Transistors." :^) Typical collector current capacities
range from 10 to 100 amperes, and the cost is below that of a heavy-duty
relay. I imagine you could spend five bucks on something really exotic, but
(depending on quantity) a buck or two gets you more current handling
capacity than you're likely to need.

John Viggiano, jsvrc@rc.rit.edu
NAR 25615
From: enders@bolshoi.cc.misu.NoDak.edu (Todd Enders)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: RE: Sounding Rockets (was Re: HPR thoughts & questions...)
Date: 18 Aug 92 02:25:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.19765
Reply-To: enders@bolshoi.uucp

C. D. Tavares writes

) HEE HEE HEE!  One of the classic NASA prang films is of a Nike-Arcas
) flipflopping its way in and out of the ocean at Wallops, then across the
) launch complex and into a parking lot!  The Nike catoes as the film
) begins, and the Arcas plops on a beach, only to be ignited by a timer
) about 15 seconds later.  With zero airspeed, the Arcas is fantastically
) unstable, and proves it.  The video is called "Boosted Arcas <some number>"
) and is in slo-mo.  NASA perpetually denies it exists, but I have a copy.

     On this note, where can one get film/video of other sounding rocket
launches?  I suspect NASA has quite a pile, *if you know what to ask for*,
but the salient question is "how do you find out what to ask for?".  Thanks!

Todd          enders@bolshoi.uucp
              uunet!bolshoi!enders
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Astrocam Breakthrough
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:34:18 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <544@rml.UUCP>, jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty) writes:
> My flight was textbook straight up and pitched over,
> almost photographing its own smoke. The image was generally 
> good, if a little off center and slightly blurred due to motion.
> Still, you can pick out the people, cars, prep tents and even
> the Tripoli launch pads (the white Mantis pads used for the 
> model rockets just blend into the white lakebed).

Was that the launch I aimed?  I've forgotten.  I'd love to get
a copy of the photo to print in our next newsletter.  I'm getting
real good with Photoshop, I could just PAINT IN the Mantis launchers.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Next NARAM (1993)
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:45:31 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Aug10.202149.1178@intelhf.hf.intel.com>, george@hfglobe.intel.com (George Rachor) writes:
> Has the location been announced yet?

Frederick, Maryland.  NARHAMS Section.

National Sport Launch this year will be SEPARATE -- Presidents' Day
Weekend, in Phoenix.  Field is J or K capable (depending on the field
they get).

There WILL be sport launching at the NARAM, from a separate range, just
like at previous NSL's, but the field size will limit flyers to something
like H's.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: bjue@engin.umich.edu (Brian Jeffrey Jue)
Subject: Putting an airfoil on glider wings.  Help!
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:01:22 GMT

     I'm building a boost glider, and I read in Stine's book that the classic
curved on top, flat on bottom airfoil is not necessary.  A symmetric one will
do.  I've seen the picture in his book, but does anyone have any hints on
how to get it done neatly and cleanly?  

     Someone told me to somehow clamp the balsa on the table, then sweep the
sanding block from the root of the wing out to the tip, and back.  It hasn't
worked for me (although I am *not* that handy with tools and such) maybe I
wasn't being patient enough.  But it didn't work for me.  Then my other problem
is how to get it on the other side.  It's not so easy to clamp down the side
of ther wing that's already curved and curve the other one.

     So can anyone out there offer some nice advice, I'd really appreciate it!

                                     Brian
From: enders@bolshoi.cc.misu.NoDak.edu (Todd Enders)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: HPR thoughts & questions...
Date: 15 Aug 92 03:17:16 GMT
Reply-To: enders@bolshoi.uucp
Distribution: usa

Paul Campbell writes

) 
) I saw someone fly an ISP G300 at BlackRock last month .... this puppy gives
) up most of it's thrust in about 1/2 sec. it flew like nothing I've ever seen,
) just sort of evaorated from the launchpad, none of these leisurely climbs
) into the sky ....
) 
     YOW!!!  Now *that* sounds like fun!  Sort of like the G equivalent of a 
B14! :-)  Nothing like a fast burner to kick something into the air right 
*NOW*!  Maybe we'll get to see more motors along this line.  An H600 or an
I1000 would be *real* interesting...

) -- 
) Paul Campbell    UUCP: ..!mtxinu!taniwha!paul     AppleLink: CAMPBELL.P
) 
) 	90's literacy - "Um, Curly, Moe, and ... no wait let
) 			 me guess .... oh I remember - Dan"

Todd          enders@bolshoi.uucp
              uunet!bolshoi!enders
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Micro Video
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:57:48 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

soc1070 writes:
: 
: I was in the local Target last night flipping through the new issue
: of Popular Science when this item caught my eye. In the new products
: section was a *micro* video camera/transmitter - 1.3 OUNCES and not
: more than two inches square. In other words, ideal for a model/HP
: rocket. (the blurb specifically mentions r/c aircraft as one intended
: application).
: 
: Other advantages to this little gem (in addition to being able to 
: loft it with a D) would be 1) if it prangs you are to out the cost of
: the receiver/recorder mechanics; 2) since it transmits in real time,
: you can get that prang an video; 3) the whole setup is *much* cheaper
: the a current super-8 video camera. The camera is model PC-3 and lists
: for $190, and the receiver lists for $135.

Yeah - I saw that article. It looked good, until I checked the specs on
resolution. It might be fine for a heavy D model, but I suspect that it
will not be very popular with the HPR crowd.

Bill
From: leadfoot@bigbootay.sw.stratus.com (Mark Curtis)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Altitude Busters at LDRS
Date: 22 Aug 92 01:10:14 GMT

The late John Hopkins launch almost didn't happen.  There was a
mix up about when the FAA waver ended.  Rodgers had been using
5:00 (17:00) as the cut off date all day.  Really it was 19:00,
the Rodgers rocket could have been launched with ease.

This wasn't known until the pad 99 people requested a countdown
and Rodgers told them it was too late.  After several minutes of
thought it was discovered that the waver was still in effect and
they launched.  A great launch, but well after tracking quit.

Tracking had been using the 17:00 time, so the launch window was
closed for them.  Someone should go to a little more trouble to
avoid this in the future.  Chuck was more than a little steamed.

We waited for the monster to launch, and finally it did,
but they gave us no warning.  We tried to contact them several
times on a CB, but they never answered.  I don't blame them
for not paying much attention to the CB, it was picking up
mexican stations all afternoon.  The noise and voices were
very distracting to listen to.

Like last year we supplied HAM radios to use for tracking.  Many
people came up asking what channel we were using.  When they found
out that they needed a scanner or a ham radio to receive our
signals they walked away shaking their heads.  While our radios work
far better than a CB for tracking and general communications
it would be nice to have some way to talk to people with CBs.

Next year someone in planning should include a notice in the
newsletters that scanners and HAM radios would be a good thing to 
bring to the launch.  Several people at this year's launch were
HAMs and didn't know that we were using the HAM bands, not
CBs.  It would really help to have at least a little planning.

Tracking doesn't work with out communications.  Two of the launch
teams requested one of our radios for their own use.  Someone asked
about paging/talking to people at Burno's or emergency services.  
This can be done, but it takes planning and work.

Getting one of the new code-less ham licenses is easy.  It also
opens up a whole new world of remote control and telemetry/video
frequencies.  Frequencies that aren't commonly used and without
the problems that CB, 49, and 72/75MHz radios have.

Why Kansas next year?  The Black Rock Desert is great.  Is there
another place in the US that has that kind of ceiling/waver?

Mark
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: sbbrown@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen B. Brown)
Subject: Re: Help! Building Astro Blaster Glider
Keywords: build rc glider astro blaster
Organization: The Ohio State University Radio Observatory
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 22:24:02 GMT

In article <#x8mlgn.tstark@netcom.com> tstark@netcom.com (Timothy Stark) writes:
>Hello Everyone:
>    How do I cut the piece of 1/16 inch piano wire with special tool because
>I can't cut it with the wire cutter and its metal is too strong?

      Don't try to cut hardened steel wire ('music wire') with wire
cutters intended for electrical use--you'll just chew up the cutter
blades and make them useless for cutting the soft copper and aluminum
for which they are intended.
      Small bolt cutters work well.  They're built for better leverage
and generally have much harder jaws than wire cutters.  They crush the
wire and leave a sharp edge, however.
      I generally use the emery cutoff wheel in my dremel tool.  It's
only a little slower than the bolt cutters and makes a much neater cut.
[I use this for cutting small bolts, too.] Clamp down either the
moto-tool or the wire--you'll need both hands to hold the other.  Don't
handle the wire for a few moments afterwards--it's hot enough to burn.
      For 'no special tools', clamp the wire and use a hacksaw or a
small file.  This takes patience, especially with the file, but
produces very neat cuts.  'Ware heat, still--10 seconds brisk
hacksawing produces more heat than seems possible.
-- 
Steve Brown, N8HFI              sbbrown@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Chief Engineer, The Ohio State University Radio Observatory ("Big Ear")
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Where did my rocket go??
Keywords: Tracking
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:39:57 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Aug4.132151.11078@walter.cray.com>, treptau@parafoil.cray.com (Jeff Treptau ) writes:
> 
> Has anyone had any experience with Estes Transroc (I believe that's what it's called, 
> I don't know if I have that name correct), the device that assists in tracking rockets
> with radio direction finder/locator. Please post or e-mail me with info regarding 
> how it works, how WELL it works, is it worth ~$30, can you build a better one 
> yourself, etc?? What other low cost possibilities exist for tracking mechanisms??

1) It's really an audio device, with a tuned-receiver locator "gun."

2) It's STILL not shipping.

3) They didn't even show it at NARAM, though they DID demo two *Estes* G 
   composite engines.  (Bad sign for the Transroc...)
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: FAQ-2?
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:17:13 GMT
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd., Livermore, CA

Hey! I never got part 2 of the FAQ! I checked my spool directory
and it's not there (although part 1 is still there chewing up a
sizable chunk of disk :-)

Did it not go out or did distribution choke somewhere on the way here?

- Jack


=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
||               "Do or not do. There is no try." - Yoda                   ||
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets