HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: morrison@cup.hp.com (Bobbie_Morrison)
Subject: Re: Mo
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:41:49 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]


: Some of us may make indiscretions on the net (among other places), but
: I fail to see how Bobbie has all of a sudden been demonized as a
: "groupie/faddist seeking attention & trying to promote a
: populist/commercial agenda," for no apparent reason other than
: explaining which guidebooks Eugene was referring to.

Great post Launce.  What you, and probably everybody else (save 3 people)
on the net don't know is that Eugene and I have history, and we didn't
exactly part on the best of terms.

Maybe he was feeling testy that day.  Maybe he got mad because I called
him weird, or maybe he got mad because I spelled it out that there are
guides for the Eastside.  Maybe he called me a groupie because I 
now climb a far site harder than he does, so that automatically puts me
in the lycra/sport climbing "groupie" crowd.  

If everyone on the net met Eugene they would begin to ignore his posts.
As it is, he has done a fascinating job of creating a completely inaccurate
image of himself (IMO). 

There are folks on the net who have lived through alot of changes in the
climbing community and atmosphere, but they aren't weird like Eugene.

(I once joined John Morton on a climbing trip to City of Rocks where his 
long time friends Steve Roper, Allen Steck, Eric Beck, Joe Kelsey, 
Tom Kimbrough, etc... gathered for a week of climbing.  For those of you 
who don't know, CofR isn't exactly your backcountry trad type climbing.
Those people have more authority to gripe about the different groups
and styles of climbing, but they don't.  And I think they don't because
they are a part of all of the different groups.  They do the trad-type
climbs, but they also do the sport routes.  )

Bobbie Morrison 
Hewlett-Packard
Cupertino, CA
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: A social commentary about "climbers" vs
Date: 13 Oct 1992 18:06:02 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver-248

In article <1992Oct13.162252.5577@samba.oit.unc.edu> cptully@med.unc.edu writes:
>In article 0C6549C0@Msu.oscs.montana.edu, uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu () writes:
>>Since WHEN do Fowler, Bachar, Lowe, and Croft have "Attitude Problems"????
>>Maybe they're all marginally successful BUSINESSMEN, but all of them I've
>>met personally and they seem like genuinely nice people...
>
>Yeah, some people thought Hitler was a nice guy too.  Don't bother
>flaming me, I'm just trying to point out that different people have
>different opinions.
>
I would suggest that the very next thing Mr. Chris Tully buys is
a clue.  If you are going to make a point, please use a wee bit of
judgement and don't slander good people just because you are too
lazy, incompetent or just plain malicious to actually give a good
example.  If the aformentioned quartet actually thought you were
worth something, they would sue you for such comments.

Bruce
From: O.MostynOwen@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Anyone have experience of ice routes in Mont Blanc area in November?
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:49:11 GMT


Lindsey Griffin's new(ish) book on Mont Blanc climbs mentions some recent
departures from Summer/Winter categorisation of routes, ie "South or East
facing gullies in late Autumn". He does not elaborate on this point in any
of the route descriptions.

Have you climbed in the Alps in November? If so please let me know how it
was.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Owen Mostyn-Owen 				     +44 71 387 7050 ext 3673
Internet: omostyno@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Computer Science, University College London, Gower Street, LONDON WC1E 6BT
From: sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Muffins make the best holds because...
Date: 14 Oct 92 13:07:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: cc.1992Oct14.070719.59689
Organization: Utah State University

>bruceg@Cadence.COM (Bruce Gustifson)>>>>>

>In article <1992Sep28.071814.59226@cc.usu.edu> sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair) writes:
>>When you push the hold onto the wall, wobble it around a little so the 
>>glue gets into all the little nooks and crannies. 
>                               ^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^^ 
>  Has anyone tried english muffins as artificial holds? I would
>think they would have a large surface area to hold it in place!

No, but I did once resole a pair of Ninjas with American pancakes.

>>
>>Hope this is useful,
>>Bob
>>
>>bobs@biocat.ncdmf.usu.edu                           bob the alien.

O-oh, I've done it now. Once everyone gets bored with sport climbers
verses alpinists, chalkies verses the clean and green or bolters
verses lemmings, we can get into a US vs UK 'discussion'.

I think I'll go on holiday 'till it's all over. :-)
>
From: jking@socs.uts.edu.au (smathy werp)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Got a new rope -- need care advice
Date: 14 Oct 92 08:36:52 GMT
Organization: Computing Sciences, Uni of Technology, Sydney.

gauthier@ug.cs.dal.ca (Paul Gauthier) writes:

>Hi folks... I've been climbing since spring and just took the plunge
>and bought a rope yesterday. Now that I have it, I'd really like to know
>what the best way to take care of it is.

	keep it out of long periods in sunlight .. wash it in warm soapy water
	whenever it gets dirty (not detergent .. but normal soap) .. never
	step on it .. it rubs dirt through the sheath and into the core which 
	is easily damaged ...

>My main concern is: what kinds of falls are considered 'harmful' to the
>rope? I know that with top-roping and a good belayer there is very little
>stress placed on the rope. Yesterday I was doing some major dyno (for me)
>moves and taking some 6-8 foot falls while top-roped on the climbing wall.
>Is this even close to what would be considered a hard fall? I notice my
>rope is rated for 8-9 UIAA falls. What is the definition of a UIAA fall?

	cannot remember the exact details of UIAA falls .. but go to your local
	climbing store and ask them .. if they dont know ask for a rope (Mammut)
	catalogue .. its sure to say in there .. alot of climbing magazines also
	detail UIAA standards ..

>Any and all other tidbits and gems for a semi-newbie climber and new rope
>owner are welcome!

	i always say if it hurts the next day then it was a fall .. but thats
	just me .. the number one tidbit is remember to tie onto the rope *8^)

	seriously .. when in doubt use two ropes .. 

	
	| elephant | jason | jking@socs.uts.EDU.AU |
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: 6 worlds was Track Skiing == Sport Climbing?
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:40:17 GMT
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center

In article <Bw82tv.Fv3@spdg.com>, rwaters@spdg.com (Rolland Waters) writes:
|>In article <.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
|>> The crag climber tends to have a larger bag of tricks (gear, techniques)
|>> than the above.  You can improvise a lot.  Increasing survival value.
|>> They really have to learn to make do with limited resources
|>> (e.g., what one does with a long 2 in. free climbable crack when you only
|>> have 1-2 pieces of that size?).
|>
|>Put a bolt in?

  How 'bout go home and drink beer, come back with more gear later?

|>> P.S. Royal Robbins will be speaking locally on his new biography.
|>
|>Just once I want to see an "alpine/expedition climbers are better than
|>sport climbers theory" that explains the depressive tendency of ex-
|>alpine/expedition climbers to start clothing companies.

Hmm, that's hard to do in Amerika.  If it wasn't for army surplus
pants, I'd of expected Warren Harding to market pants that can hold
several bottles of beer.  There's Mo Antoine, who it seems remained
somewhat true to his origins ... other than being a stunt man in
some Rambo movie.

--
Greg Jahn Boise State Univ.|'I decided to just lie low and let events
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu /|take their course. Maybe that's the way
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    /|the sheep think as they are led off to the
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  /|the slaughterhouse.' On marriage, Camilo Cela
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Subject: Re: A social commentary about "climbers" vs
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:49:29 GMT

In article <ldm40aINNjo5@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>,
 bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand) writes:
|>In article <1992Oct13.162252.5577@samba.oit.unc.edu>
|>cptully@med.unc.edu writes:
|>>In article 0C6549C0@Msu.oscs.montana.edu,
|>uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu () writes:
|>>>Since WHEN do Fowler, Bachar, Lowe, and Croft have "Attitude
|>Problems"????
|>>>Maybe they're all marginally successful BUSINESSMEN, but all of them
|>I've
|>>>met personally and they seem like genuinely nice people...
|>>
|>>Yeah, some people thought Hitler was a nice guy too.  Don't bother
|>>flaming me, I'm just trying to point out that different people have
|>>different opinions.
|>>
|>I would suggest that the very next thing Mr. Chris Tully buys is
|>a clue.  If you are going to make a point, please use a wee bit of
|>judgement and don't slander good people just because you are too
|>lazy, incompetent or just plain malicious to actually give a good
|>example.  If the aformentioned quartet actually thought you were
|>worth something, they would sue you for such comments.
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Boy, that would certainly fix everything.  Isn't it a bit too early
for vicious cabin fever to be attacking everyone?  I like the arguments
and different points folks make in here, but ... it seems to be a bit
more angry than normal.  Maybe the Russkies are still experimenting with
those microwave mood altering devices. :)


--
Greg Jahn Boise State Univ.|'I decided to just lie low and let events
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu /|take their course. Maybe that's the way
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    /|the sheep think as they are led off to the
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  /|the slaughterhouse.' On marriage, Camilo Cela

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: billw@ace.mentorg.com (Bill Wright)
Subject: Re: Mo
Originator: billw@ace
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:26:34 GMT
Distribution: ca
Reply-To: bill_wright@mentorg.com
Organization: Mentor Graphics 
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 


In article <1992Oct11.200211.22740@nas.nasa.gov>, eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
|> In article <BvpKA5.1zx@cup.hp.com> morrison@cup.hp.com
|> (Bobbie_Morrison) writes:
|> >As Eugene might have been trying to say in his weird way:
|> 						^^^^^
|> Actually, it's very deliberate.  It's deterrence.  Worked for decades.
|> Designed (doesn't always work) to prevent the uncertain novice from killing
|> themselves due to groupies (like yourself) and faddists seeking attention
|> and trying to promote a populist/commercial agenda.
|> Trying to preserve what some call "adventure" (I call essence) of the sport
|> or activity. ("Adventure" is a term more for unprepared novices.)

I call it adventure and that's what I seek.  If it makes me an "unprepared
novice" so be it.  I probably am, but I have a lot of fun.

Maybe this is your "wierd way" again, but I don't understand the first part
of your post.  Are you calling Bobbie a groupie of rock climbing or of
you?  Either way I am still confused.  Not an uncommon state for me...
-- 
             Bill Wright / bill_wright@mentorg.com

                  "When in doubt, run it out!"
From: j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:40:34 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: OW was Overhangs
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing

In rec.climbing, bruceb@roadrunner.denver.sgi.com (Bruce Bailey) writes:

> 
> Eugene agrees that Mort may benifit from "treatment".  In addition to 
> "please sir, may I have another?" I must warn you that full "treatment"
> includes ego-destruction/rebuilding

I can take the ego-destruction.  It's the skin/body destruction that bothers
me.  I did 10 fingery B1's at the Horsetooth Hang and my fingers/tendons
only hurt for 3 days.  I did 1 B1- with only 3 fist/OW moves and it took 3
weeks for the scabs to heal to the point where they don't hurt when I bend
my elbow or flex my hand!

OW climbing definitely has the highest pain / vertical gain ratio!!!

> So whaddya say Mort?  Ready to regress back to floundering on 5.8??

I do this anytime I boulder before 8am.

> 
> Bruce Bailey (Dr. OW)

Mort (notice I evaded the question - popular these days with the debates
      going on)
From: czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: A social commentary about "climbers" vs. "People who climb (or play like it)"
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:03:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Texas Instruments

In article <1992Oct9.144528.10271@ncar.ucar.edu>
rawl@lhotse.ucar.edu () writes:

>Then there are the "climbers" of the world.  People like Charlie Fowler, 
>John Bachar, Jeff Lowe, Peter Croft, etc.  People who do phenomenal things and
>don't run off to get it "published".  That is, they love climbing for the
>beauty, joy, fear, pleasure and suffering that it brings. 

Reads more like the Who's Who list of "Park Bums with Attitude Problems".
Note Bachar's altercation at the Snowbird.  A list of truley phenomenal sport
climbers would contain names like Lynn Hill and Jim Karn.  Of course, the
best climbers in the world are all alpinists.

Cary Czichon
czichon@csc.ti.com
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Subject: Re: A social commentary about "climbers" vs. "People who climb (or play like it)"
Reply-To: uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:24:53 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.160346.14969@csc.ti.com>, czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon) writes:
>In article <1992Oct9.144528.10271@ncar.ucar.
>>Then there are the "climbers" of the world.  People like Charlie Fowler, 
>>John Bachar, Jeff Lowe, Peter Croft, etc.  People who do phenomenal things and
>>don't run off to get it "published".  That is, they love climbing for the
>>beauty, joy, fear, pleasure and suffering that it brings. 
>
>Reads more like the Who's Who list of "Park Bums with Attitude Problems".

Since WHEN do Fowler, Bachar, Lowe, and Croft have "Attitude Problems"????
Maybe they're all marginally successful BUSINESSMEN, but all of them I've
met personally and they seem like genuinely nice people...

>Note Bachar's altercation at the Snowbird.  A list of truley phenomenal sport
>climbers would contain names like Lynn Hill and Jim Karn.  Of course, the
>best climbers in the world are all alpinists.
>Cary Czichon
>czichon@csc.ti.com

As for the guy at NCAR, who insists that he is a "CLIMBER goddammit"...why
don't we just not bother flaming that guy...it would only give him the sense
of martyrdom that he craves because he's a REAL climber and we're all just
weenies or gumbies with six quick-draws.

Oh, by the way, RAWL (isn't that the name of a BOLT?????), I was wondering
why YOU haven't been publishing all those "out there" things you've been up
to...and all those outrageous exploit first ascents you've been so busy
with(?).  You're just great.  Another overpaid Boulder jerk-off with a
news account.  In the words immortal of THE John Gill;  "Fuck these people".
From: bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us (bob pasker)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Mo
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:54:34 PDT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Disorganized Organization

In article <Bw669q.Hq8@cup.hp.com>, morrison@cup.hp.com (Bobbie_Morrison) writes:
> If everyone on the net met Eugene they would begin to ignore his posts.

i don't have to have met eugene to ignore his posts.

-- 
-- bob pasker
-- bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us 
--
From: goldberg@unixg.ubc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Toy Stores in Seattle
Date: 15 Oct 1992 06:39:47 GMT
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca
Originator: goldberg@unixg.ubc.ca

Hey,

I'll be in Seattle for a day, and am wondering if folks have favorite shops
for gear.  I'm currently trying to find Tele boots that fit, but could also use
a pair of full-zip bibs, and sundry other items too numerous and costly
to mention.  Yah, I know about REI.

Tanks.
-- 
Mucho Maas       Human Race Life Member - "The best insanity is no defense"

------------------c/o goldberg@unixg.ubc.ca----------------------------------
From: czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Mo
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:55:31 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Texas Instruments

In article <Bw669q.Hq8@cup.hp.com> morrison@cup.hp.com
(Bobbie_Morrison) writes:

>I once joined John Morton on a climbing trip to City of Rocks where his 
>long time friends Steve Roper, Allen Steck, Eric Beck, Joe Kelsey, 
>Tom Kimbrough, etc... gathered for a week of climbing.

Speaking of Steck & Roper, does anyone know where I can buy a copy of their
book, 50 CLASSIC CLIMBS?  Friends of mine bought copies at Chessler Books
long ago.  It went out of print but supposedly it's been re-released.  I
checked Chessler Books.  They don't have any in stock.  Their waiting list
is a mile long and grows daily.

Cary Czichon
czichon@csc.ti.com
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: timsc@hwcae.Honeywell.COM (Tim Schneider)
Subject: Re: A social commentary about "climbers" vs. "People who climb (or play like it)"
Reply-To: timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com
Organization: Honeywell, Air Transport Division; Phoenix, AZ
	<00961D67.0C6549C0@Msu.oscs.montana.edu> <Bvvp88.2nu@spdg.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 00:49:29 GMT


I have met Peter Croft and he was one of the most approachable, nicest
climbers I'd ever met.  Seemed genuinely intrested in climbing and sharing
experiences about it.  Cool guy.

Another one is Steve Schneider.  He was guiding a fella up the Steck
Salathe beside us as we did the Chouinard Herbert.  He was conversing
back and forth with us, asked about the Phoenix Bouldering Contest,
whether there was going to be one next year, just basic stuff.  Seemed
genuinely intrested too...  

There is room in the sport for many different types and kinds of
climbing.  If you like to do scary runout "trad" routes then by all
means go for it!  A5-6 nailing on desert sandtone then have at it, or
if you want.. big walls or bolted sport routes.  There is so much to
do, and so many different type of climbing to do, why sit around and
"bag" on people that just climb on plastic when you could be out
climbing?... guess it does stirr up good discussion though!
(in fact what the heck am I still doing here?)

My interests change from year to year, It's neat to participate in an
activity that lets you have such wide and varied experiences

It's unfortunate that sometimes climbing turns into a "one-upmanship"
contest like many other sports.  Healthy competition is good, but
putting people down is not.  Bouldering is sometimes very competitive,
but is also very rewarding and just plain fun.   So many routes, so
little time...

With regards to the original post... I kinda wonder who has the "real"
attitude problem!

just my thoughts.... (actually Im wondering why the heck I even
bothered to post)  oh well..


--
            tim schneider

    timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com  OR
  uunet!asuvax!hwcae.honeywell.com!timsc
           (602) 436-3078
From: Doug.Hemken@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Doug Hemken)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: A social commentary, & equipping nature
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:05:18 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service


Might as well get in my 2 rupees worth, everyone else is.

Who the real climbers are depends upon what you take to be the real point
of climbing.  Some people think that facing death is the point, others
feel that doing the moves is the point.  Most ratings sytems put the
emphasis on the moves.  The whole point of ratings is to objectify the
experience, describe climbs in a less personal way.

Tangential point:  some people prefer to play the game with the equipment
as part of the climber, some people prefer to make the equipment a part
of the route itself.  The former place their own gear, the latter clip
bolts and other fixed gear.

In the good old days, we faced our fears and the route was just the rock
(and snow and ice).  But nowadays "the 'sport' in 'sport climbing' is that
no one gets hurt" and the route = rock + pro.  Good pro is no longer an
attribute of the climber, good pro is an attribute of the route.

-=> Doug Hemken
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: bruceb@roadrunner.denver.sgi.com (Bruce Bailey)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Lubricating Cams
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:24:45 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

Bruce Hildenbrand sez:

|> I use Dri-Slide.  It is a molybdenum di-sulfide based product that 
|> has a volatile transfer agent and dries up so dirt won't stick.
|> 

Dr. OW sez:

Just make sure you test your units with a neo-decabulation oscilator 
before attempting the above...

Bruce Bailey (Dr. OW)
From: leathley@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Scott Leathley)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: A social commentary about "climbers" vs. "People who climb (or play like it)"
Date: 12 Oct 92 18:27:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Boeing

Gee, I kinda like the "climbing public", the sport climbers, the gym jocks,
etc...  I don't enjoy reading about them, but I do like what they do.  Draw
people into the sport where they belong, in the gyms, on the roadside boulders,
anywhere but back in the hills with me.
-- 
       !!! IGNORING WHAT I SAY IS THE RULE, NOT THE EXCEPTION !!!
Scott Leathley      \\ leathley@bcstec.boeing.com // "Climbing may be hard,
Boeing D&SG 7-6766   \\   uunet!bcstec!leathley  //   but it's easier than
M/S 9F-36  657-8311   \\\\\\\  ###         ///////    growing up."
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: saastad@spot.Colorado.EDU (Ole W Saastad)
Subject: Re: Longs peak,CO ?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:32:28 GMT

mntneer@ccvax.ucd.ie writes:


>Has anybody been up Longs peak in Colorado lately? 
>I attempted an expedition on
>September 23rd but on arriving at the keyhole was left with no alternative 
>but to give up my attempt due to things such as lack of time, uncomfortable
>feelings about the route and so on. I never found out if the route was
>technical or not or if there was a simpler route to the peak. Back home now I
>itch for information on the mountain and would welcome any news.

>Alan O'Brien.

>University College Dublin Mountaineering Club.

I went up there at night in August, with no problems. A headlamp was needed
to spot the painted markers. It is not even a climb, just a hiking trip.
We housemate went up there last weekend and reported some snow and some
ice. The biggest problem he said was crowding and rockfall from careless
people. I went up at night alone and down when everyone was comming up
so I did not have the problem. The only problem is that the peak is
over 4400 meters high. Comming from sea level can give severe altitude
problems. Take a week in Boulder and climb in Boulder and Eldorado.

-- 
Ole W Saastad       "Fat trout trailer park"
Dept. of Chemistry University of Oslo Norway.
Now at University of Colorado at Boulder / CIRES ,  Atmospheric Chemistry.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing