HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 09:43:59 CST
Reply-To:     roger@cogs.ns.ca
From:         Roger Mosher <roger@cogs.ns.ca>
Subject:      NEW LIST: CARISUse - A list for CARIS GIS Users

CarisUse@sun1.cogs.ns.ca  CARIS Geographic Information System Users

   A mailing list designed to encourage any CARIS users on the internet
   to get together.  We are hoping international users in particular
   will want to get in on this one.

   CARIS is a geographic information system (GIS) used for managing
   various kinds of spatial data...  natural resources, municipalities,
   oceanography, charting, etc.  CARIS is also used extensively for
   automated cartography, and has remote sensing, 3D, and network
   analysis modules available as well.

   To subscribe: email to roger@sun1.cogs.ns.ca with the a message of
   the form:   (This is NOT on a standard LISTSERV)
        SUBSCRIBE CarisUse <your internet address>
   eg.  SUBSCRIBE CarisUse doe@john.doe.ns.ca
   To unsubscribe: UNSUBSCRIBE CarisUse <your internet address>
   To send mail: email to CarisUse@sun1.cogs.ns.ca

   This mailing list is being handled manually, at least for the time
   being.  Two things will cause that to change.  One: the traffic
   increases to a significant level.  Two: I get a better grasp on how
   to run a mailing list.

   Owner: roger@sun1.cogs.ns.ca
          Roger Mosher                    Ph:     (902)584-2226
          College of Geographic Sciences  Fax:    (902)584-7211
          Lawrencetown, Nova Scotia       net:    roger@sun1.cogs.ns.ca
          Canada, B0S 1M0
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 11:05:14 -0500
From:         x91ahmed4@GW.WMICH.EDU
Subject:      RE: open

One more thing I have never being a disco club...
Ahmed
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:33:19 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Guns and syringes

Brian,

God gave you arms for other purposes and not strangling...If you did
strangle anyone with them, God is not to blame...  However, he had the
sense not to give you anything with the sole purpose of killing anyone...

I cannot absolve anyone for creating instruments whose sole purpose is
KILLING....  don't you guys get the difference... SOLE....

People who invent, build factories and put out weapons such as automatics
and handguns and tanks and fighter jets and so on.... and sell to the
highest bidder or the corner drug dealer...They are just as guilty for the
killing their weap[onn results in.....

Zahir
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Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:09:23 -0500
From:         x91ahmed4@GW.WMICH.EDU
Subject:      Re: open

Zahir....
 I am curious that from where do they come from....

Ahmed
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 00:33:45 -0600
From:         "(CHELAGOI)" <CHOWNING@ACUVAX.ACU.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Dogma's Iron Cage

Religion, in any culture, is a whole lot more than hope in times of trouble
and life after death.  It is that in many cultures, but always more.  It
gives direction to this present life to help oneself and especially to help
others around us.

My religion helps me as I work with people who are hurting around me.

--Chelagoi
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 13:57:00 EDT
From:         JDAVIS@BENTLEY.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Woman as a President

Neither Bhutto nor any of the others (certainly not Margaret Thatcher!) was
offered as an example of perfect leadership.  The quality of a head-of-state's
reign is not at issue.  I meant only to illustrate that women CAN be leaders,
even in Islamic countries.  Whether good or bad, you wouldn't judge the ability
of MEN to lead by one or two examples.

Peace,

Jef
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 17:25:13 GMT
From:         Gerry Callaghan <eeigcn@EEIUC.ERICSSON.SE>
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.

I have been reading the discussion on veils etc and two memories have come back
 to me.

13 years ago, on my first day in the Yemen, I was walking down the street and
 met a veiled woman for the first time. There women wear a brown-red shawl over
 their heads and a black cloth with large red flowers on it completely covering
 their face. I can still remember the shock of meeting someone with,
 effectively, no face. Does this mean that she had no role, no existence in the
 public world of the town?

The other memory is of coming home. Once the airplane had taken off there was a
 procession of black veiled women to the toilets and a procession of unveiled
 and fashionably dressed women back from them!

If the veil is so protecting and comforting in an Islamic society why did these
 women take the first opportunity to get rid of it? Remember that they were
 going to a place, Europe, where the 'danger' of sexual harassment was higher
 than at home. If the purpose of the veil is to protect against this then surely
 women who do not wear the veil at home would wear it on their trip to Europe?

I don't have any answers, only questions. Is there a moslem woman on the list
that would like to comment?

Gerry Callaghan
eeigcn@eeiuc.ericsson.se
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Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 09:21:04 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: rape

Marcos,

I liked most everything you wrote to Ahmed except the statement regarding
maniacs and canibals in the U.S......  I do agree that there are more
crimes of a personal nature in the U.S., but this thing about maniacs and
cannibals is a bit much....

The U.S. is not as dangerous as many people think....yes, there are crimes
.....and in a country where Publicity gets more funds, even the police
encourage publicity of such crimes to where people are very scared....

In my own experience of 24 years in the U.S., I have never been mugged,
assaulted, know anyone personally who was raped....and (Ahmed, please note)
despite having tried topless bars and beaches with skimpily dressed females,
discos, an occasional X rated movie as well as viewing pornographic
magazine or two, never had the urge for sex with a non-consenting female...

Marcos, as for the family "tightness" in Brazil...its quite the same in
many countries from the East and Middle East....teenagers do not have the
freedoms that they do here and family life is close... however there is a
trade off....  Such societies may be safer but the process seems to stifle
creativity and all round development....

In general, kids who grow up in tight families do very well economically
but do not excell in as many wide areas as do American children...This
culture produces a wider variety of greatness...  For example, children
in other countries will not be allowed the freedom to hang around
playgrounds and practise sports as much and rarely do these cultures
produce a Michael Jordan or a Carl Lewis or be allowed to grow up to
be in a rock band or drop out of school to become artists or musicians, etc.

Zahir
From: STCHRI@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA (DOUGL, APPARENTLY.)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Re: Veils, etc.
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:01:53 GMT
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Zahir:
That the jury process can fail does not diminish is value over the
kind of professionalized adjudication process you are advocating.

As for 'jury consulting' firms, they should simply be outlawed. End of
story.

Guilt is not always a matter of technical expertise and it is
especially simplistic to suggest that fairness is a matter of
specialist knowledge.

I do not beleive the judicial system is fair - to women, to blacks, to
gays and lesbians and so on - but this is not a function of the
use of peer based juries.

Douglass
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:22:42 -0500
From:         JCWEST@INDYVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: open

marcos,
     try the movie footloose, it has a good point on religion...
                                    joseph...
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:08:00 CST
From:         Daniel Henry <DHENRY@NNOMED.BITNET>
Subject:      Erich Honecker (wphew!! had to look *that* one up!)

I've been drowning (over 2000) in mail recently... I can't remember
all the names, but I wonder what the list members who have been active
recently from Germany think about Erich Honecker's extradition and
trial...  I heard today that he supposedly had a heart attack today
and is in "a race with death" according to his attourney...

what is the feeling in Germany about putting him on trial?...

... as for me, although I feel holding people accountable to unjust
action (ie.the "shoot to kill" order),    I wonder about the value in
punishing an old man who is (so it seems) near death ... any thoughts?
Dan Henry               __o
DHENRY@NNOMED         _ \<,_
LSU Medical Center   (_)/ (_)
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 11:16:57 -0500
From:         x91ahmed4@GW.WMICH.EDU
Subject:      RE: open

Ruth...
  I have another question...where do these bad things originate from...and
People dancing Topless why don't they feel ashamed...and realize that they
are degrading themselve probably to a level at which a Cat would feel shy
to see. them.....Don't they have any sense....I am not saying about topless
but may be bars where there is nude dancing.....who know's there might be
places even worse....

Ahmed

p.s I have never being in a night club or a bar in my life.....
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 11:17:22 -0500
From:         x91ahmed4@GW.WMICH.EDU
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.

Hello Krista...
 I don't get your point why not remove the grass root cause..rather then
saying no at the end when things can get terrible...why do this in the
beginning if you know it might lead to a terrible conclusion....

Ahmed
From: AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Re: Guns and syringes
Date: 5 Nov 92 19:39:38 GMT
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Emmy,

Yes to most of those on your list that were created for the SOLE
purpose of KILLING....

and for your information, where it is banned...and in many of those
countries where the fundamentalists live...it is a lot safer to walk
down any street than it is in half of New York or Washington or
wherever....

Just about any country where one is not allowed to sell weapons and
anything that has as its sole purpose as killing... has a lower rate
of violence than the U.S.A......

Zahir
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 15:45:25 -0500
From:         x91ahmed4@GW.WMICH.EDU
Subject:      RE: open

I have one small question if Dancing isn't vulgar..then why are the night
club in large town have pronography andother bad things..they are also
simple dance clubs...
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:04:19 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Guns and syringes

Emmy,

I am always either to the left or to the right????  Well, you cannot
always go looking for the middle on every issue....  That's what most
politicians do..

The topic used to be Gun Control...by the time Bush and Clinton and the
NRA got thru with it, the topic had become whether the WAIT TO PURCHASE
A HANDGUN SHOULD BE 1 DAY OR 7 DAYS...  Once upon a time, Gun control
used to be thought of in terms of banning handguns, period!

In Ca, they tried to ban the sale of automatic weapons and by the time the
politicians and the NRA got thru with it, they banned Foreign Automatic
Weapons!  As if its o.k. to take lives with domestic made automatic weapons!

This whole discussion started out with my saying that so called fundamentalists
come from cultures which are incapable of developing and producing weapons of
death and the west whose people and cultures (GREEN) saw a demand and
promptly provided them with weapons are equally responsible for the havoc
those weapons cause...

Zahir
From: oliver@DHVX20.CSUDH.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Re: Religion a proper subject? and reflected messages.
Date: 5 Nov 92 07:53:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Discussions of religion, though sometimes heated,
expose people to unexpected cultural perspectives.  This
list has subscribers from more than 25 countries and at least
as many cultural and microcultural world views.

Having been first a member of XCULT-L for a couple of years
 before becoming its listowner I have observed that discussions
have a way of taking care of themselves.  Sometimes when
subscribers dwell on a subject for a sufficient length of time
boredom sets in on the part of other subscribers and the
number of postings begins to fall off.

I->]ZzfI"E4*}{f  .7









save
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:16:00 CST
From:         "KRISTA L. BENNETT" <KLBHO@CANAL.CRC.UNO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.

Ahmed:
     Furthermore, eliminating dating in American culture would be
impossible, even if there was justification. Eliminating dating would not
solve the problem of rape by any means. Dating isn't the problem with date
rape. RAPE is the problem with date rape. The problem is that some people
don't seem to understand that when one party says "stop", they mean it.
The problem with our society is that there has been this macho idea of
"When she says no, she really means yes."  People need to learn that this
is absolutely untrue. It isn't a matter of eliminating dating---it's a matter
of respecting the rights of others.
-----Krista
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 10:46:00 EDT
From:         JDAVIS@BENTLEY.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Woman as a President

The difference, as I understand it, is similar to the difference between
Christians and Greeks.  Hard to compare a people with followers of a religion
shared by many of them, plus several  tens or hundreds of millions more.

I apologize for anything that made you think I was confusing the two terms.
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:43:13 GMT
From:         Peter Mandal <eeipml@EEIUC.ERICSSON.SE>
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.

I just had a crazy thought/question.....

Ahmed,

What country are you situated in? (I can only remember that you're from Saudi??)

If you are in the US, presumably you are now exposed to women in less than
modest atire (clothing).

Does this instill in you a desire to rape them?

Peace,
          Peter
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 12:44:00 CST
From:         "KRISTA L. BENNETT" <KLBHO@CANAL.CRC.UNO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Dogma's Iron Cage

Zahir,

Thanks... I'll stick around for a while...

-Krista
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 09:40:27 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Guns and syringes

Alan,

Education by  itself will not succeed......

Going back to my original point.... People who create instruments whose
sole purpose is taking lives are as guilty as those squeezing the trigger....

Zahir
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 15:19:10 GMT
From:         "(Gerry Callaghan)" <eeigcn@EEIUC.ERICSSON.SE>
Subject: Re: Dogmas Iron Cage

Hi People,
I came across a lovely one recently. Brendan Behan, an Irish playwright who
 spent much of his early life in prison, once described his religion on a census
form as 'daylight atheist'. In other words I'm an atheist when things are going
 well for me but look to some God or other to get me out of trouble!

Reminds me of someone I know very well!
All the best,
Gerry

Gerry Callaghan
eeigcn@eeiuc.ericsson.se
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 11:24:38 -0500
From:         x91ahmed4@GW.WMICH.EDU
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.

Ruth...

Could please how rape is define over here in America..probably I am confused

Ahmed
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 09:18:56 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Dogma's Iron Cage

Emmy,

I think you must be a great mother...  I like your response to your
child's question...regarding evolution etc.

Zahir
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 11:24:50 -0400
From:         "DOUGL, APPARENTLY." <STCHRI@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA>
Subject:      Re: Veils, etc.

In the 'condom rapist' case, the DA refiled the charges and obtained an
indictment from a second grand jusry


But what surprises me in all this discussion of fairness is an assumption that
the accused is most definitely guilty, something which is at this point only
alleged. [ And lest this seems like a dig at the accuser, it is not. At issue
in the grand juries decision is defining the outer parameters of consent. I
find their decision flawed in that they equated acquiescence with consent.
By that definition, failing to resist can then constitute consent, an ugly
and dangerous precedent which the DA recognized and which, from the interviews
I saw was the prime motivation for refiling and effectively overturning that
decision.]

In effect, the condom has become a non issue in that case, refocussing the
accusation on the question of force, coercion. The jury willnow decide the
merits of the accusedd's defense and not the victim's will to self
preservation.

Professional juries frighten me. The notion that the 'truth' of guilt is
best determined by a trained professional seems to weight the process
of accusation and defense toward a more imbalanced system. Peer adjudication,
when it works, is always preferable to monolithic judgments of legal
or forensics. My civil liberties are best ensured by a system which bases
the ascription of guilt or innocence on the reasonable judgment of my
peers, and not on the professionalised calculations of technocrats.

Douglass....
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 03:18:56 EST
From:         oliver@DHVX20.CSUDH.EDU
Subject: Re: rejected messages

I don't know what my last message looked like, but right in
the middle of it, after having written 10-12 lines, my PC went
nuts, like the baud rate suddenly changed.  I thought that I had
lost the message, maybe I did, anyway, first let me say that
I apologize for all those rejected messages -- I don't know how many
there were, but they must have started sometime around 2 am Greenwich
Mean Time.  It occurred because XCULTers exceeded a 50 message limit
within a period of 24 hours!  We haven't done that for about 6 months.
Keep up the good work, folks.  Anyway, when that happens I have
to send the following message to the listserver at Penn State:

free xcult-l

which is not a bad idea from my perspective, in any case.

I'll say once again, just in case my earlier message was completely
garbled that religion and culture seem always to be intimitely
connected.  Religious discussions expose people to unexpected
perspectives and they often lead to discussions on other cultural
topics.  Having been a member of xcult-l first for a couple of years
before becoming its listowner I have observed that discussions seem
most of the time to take care of themselves.  When subscribers dwell
on a subject for some sufficient but undefinable period of time, others
start to be bored and postings fall off.  Pretty soon, one or another
posts a message about "what a boring list" and things pick up again,
usually in a different direction.

Though this list continues to be dominated by people living in the U.S.,
the cultural diversity of our population exposes us (well at least
in the urban areas) all the time to a lot of different world views.
It seems to me that religion is as good a place as any to get a
discussion going on our attitudes about "life, the universe and
everything."

Just one other thing.  It is more than 6 months since I last invited
our lurkers to introduce themselves and to tell us why they subscribed
to XCULT-L.  We still have around 250 subscribers on the list -- and
as in the case of most lists, at any one time a discussion is kept
alive by perhaps 6-10 (at most) individuals.  I am a member of NETTRAIN,
a list of network trainers.  At last count there were just under
1000 subscribers to that list.  Yet, the traffic is at about the
same level as that of XCULT-L!

Finally, let me say that I find all the postings to be sometimes
stimulating, sometimes thought-provoking, sometimes amusing, but never
dull.  Keep up the good work
!  Oops.  Keep up the good work!

Oliver Seely
Listowner, XCULT-L
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:22:19 EST
From:         oliver@DHVX20.CSUDH.EDU
Subject:      Increasing the message limit.

Thanks, Ruth.
The way to do it is probably in my folder on information for
listowners.  It is at the university but I'm going in tomorrow
morning and I'
I'll look at it then.  Meanwhile, I've sent a request to my contact
at Penn State to up the limit to 100 and see how it goes.  We'll get
it worked out.  Thanks again.

Oliver
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