HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ian@spider.co.uk (Ian Heavens)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: INDIAN (ENGLISH) LITERATURE
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:36:00 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK

In article <1993Jan21.182404.5881@ecrc.de> sanjiva@ecrc.de (Sanjiva Prasad) writes:
>
>	>(17.) NIRAD C. CHAUDHURI (1915-....)
>
>I thought the old fogey was pushing ninety-something now.  I picked up
>_Thy Hand, Great Anarch_ and was amazed at the sharpness of style and
>wit.  Certainly can claim to being one of the great exponents of the 
>English language alive!  

'The Autobiography of an Unknown Indian' is a fascinating book; Chaudhuri's
Western education was so complete, that he could be a voluble contributor to 
this newsgroup.  


ian

---
	 Ian Heavens			ian@spider.co.uk                 
 	 Spider Software
 	 Spider Park, Stanwell Street		
	 Edinburgh, EH6 5NG, Scotland	+44 31 555 5166 (Ext 4347)
--
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26502 sci.math:18819
From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,sci.math
Subject: Re: Remedial Math
Date: 27 Jan 1993 19:37:16 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
NNTP-Posting-Host: cyclops.eece.unm.edu

> jweiss@paintbrush.cgd.ucar.edu (Jeffrey Weiss) writes:
>
>If one is trying to get the students to create mathematics, then they
>will go through the same process of refinement that a researcher does.
>I know I don't always get things right on the first try and I don't
>expect the students to.
>

	On this subject, I remember reading a fun skinny book
	(for a class on Hegel, no less) by Imre Lakatos, called
	_Proofs and Refutations_, written in dialogue format.
	For the curious but not *that* curious, it is summarized
	in Davis & Hersh.

>Jeff

rms
From: daq@fc.hp.com (Doug Quarnstrom)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Book-title modesty
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:58:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: fc.C1FGx5.3KM
Organization: SPUGE
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

AMY CHARLES (arc2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu) wrote:
: 
: I dunno about you, Ken, but I hate that squirmy feeling you get when somebody
: comes up and says, "Are you *really* reading that?"  or "Are you in school?"
: And if you say, "Why yes, I am," or "No, I'm reading this because I *like*
: it," they give you one of those funny gee-you-must-be-a-brain looks.

This is where it pays of to have practiced your evil, Charlse Manson
leer.   You have to learn how to make THEM nervous.  Then you
don't feel so nervous.

>  I've
: never been pregnant, but the feeling must be akin to having some utter
: stranger grope your pregnant belly.  (Not *yours*, obviously.)
: Another deterrent is the v. bright but emotionally precarious types who take
: the bus and sit down next to you, on the basis of your book, and decide you're
: a friend for life.  Which could be okay, I guess, I've just never had it turn
: out that way.  Besides, they talk when you're trying to read.  :-)

I have found that if you really make it clear that you have not
the slightest intention of talking that people WILL leave you alone.
Wearing a Walkman helps.  You can either turn on the music or not (I ussually
do), but people rarely bug you if you wear a Walkman.

doug
From: jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Remedial Math (was Re: Marilyn (was: Paglia)
Date: 21 Jan 93 12:22:29 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

->In article <1ji8isINNjsp@emory.mathcs.emory.edu> mworley@mathcs.emory.edu (Meg Worley) writes:
->>What I was looking for, mainly, was non-math-types/geophysicists/
->>AI gurus/programmers -- what my SO calls 'liberal-arts weenies' --
->>to tell me that calculus changed the way they look at the world.
->>So far the only people to tell me this are mathematicians of various
->>stripes and Barclay, who is both.

I'm afraid I must confess to being a geowotsit, but speaking personally I
don't think I would have enjoyed Pynchon so much without some inkling
of what he was alluding to from a scientific point of view.




-- 
===Jeremy Henderson===jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk=          

Unauthorised access is a criminal offence under The Computer Misuse Act 1990.
If you are a British Airways employee, disconnect NOW.
From: glink@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (gary g link)
Subject: Re: "Harlan Ellison's Watching" by Harlan Ellison
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 02:26:37 GMT

 Well, Kris, Harlan has a habit of being a bit ...promiscuous with his
essays, but I swear that the 'Dinosaur' essay is in "Strange Wine"
'cause I got the book out before I typed it in.

That is not to say that he did not print it elsewhere.   Often. (That's
'offen-frequently' not 'offen- a person who has lost both parents')

Susanna
Ellison addict
From: pml3@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Paul Michael Lewis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Books we're too righteous to censor-- but would like to
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:28:11 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

>jahb@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JENNIFER A. HEISE) writes:
>>
>> Let's talk about what books that we would *like* to censor, but we are too
>> damn PC or right-to-read or whatever to suggest.
>
>> My first candidate:
>> Jude the Obscure.  Not for everyone-- just not to be taught in the
>> schools. It's sexist, fatalist, and just plain depressing. Asking
>> teenagers to read it is incitement to suicide.
>> Any objections? Anyone in favor? Anyone care for a mint?

Well, Jude the Obscure did make me reconsider the institution of marriage, and
I still refer to that book as an main impetus in that regard.  I don't
remember being offended by the book at all, but it was quite depressing.  I
don't think that's necessarily a terrible thing in literature.

If you want depressing, how about _To Have and Have Not_ by Hemingway?  One of
my favorite books, but it certainly doesn't leave you very inspired.  Quite
fatalistic...

-- 

+-| Paul Lewis | People's Temple, Jonestown: WLVR 91.3fm    Mon. 11pm-1am |-+
|  'I'd love to turn you on.'                  -The Beatles   |             |
|  'You should be with us, feeling like we do  -Perry Farrell |     1       |
|   like you love to, but never will again.'                  |    2 3      |
|  'The struggle between God and man breaks    -Kazantzakis   |             |
|   out in everyone.'                                         | Renaissance |
From: ian@spider.co.uk (Ian Heavens)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Geometry = the mind of God. NOT!
Date: 22 Jan 93 12:38:58 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK

In article <C15201.By1@cmcl2.nyu.edu> ltm@cns.nyu.edu writes:
>>Is this the same Lobachevsky celebrated by Tom Lehrer, who copied his
>>references from the Vladivostok telephone directory?  And where is Tom
>>Lehrer now?
>>
>>ian
>
>Yes it is! Nikolai Ivanovich Labachevsky is his name.
>And Tom Leher was at UC Santa cruz in 1986 (according
>to one of Doug Hofstadter's students who had lunch
>with him).
>So you can probably ignore the recurring rumors that
>he committed suicide in X. Twas the pigeons who got
>poisoned.

Apparently he's still there - I'm very pleased to hear this.  My parents acquired 
a taste for Tom Lehrer while at Cornell University in 1960-61.

"He gives the kids free samples
 Because he knows full well
 That today's young innocent faces
 Will be tomorrow's client-e-e-e-le" 	- 	'The Old Dope Pedlar'

and the idea of setting a list of the elements to Gilbert and Sullivan...

ian

---
	 Ian Heavens			ian@spider.co.uk                 
 	 Spider Software
 	 Spider Park, Stanwell Street		
	 Edinburgh, EH6 5NG, Scotland	+44 31 555 5166 (Ext 4347)
--
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: daq@fc.hp.com (Doug Quarnstrom)
Subject: Censorship
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:58:33 GMT
Organization: SPUGE
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

I am curious.  When was the last time the US banned a book?

Is there any literature out there that discusses the history
of censorship in the US, particularly within the last 50 years or so?

doug  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,misc.books.technical
From: jnorman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John G Norman)
Subject: Ordering books via Internet?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 21:58:34 GMT

There was mention in the NY Times today (Sun, 24 Jan 93; business pages)
of a service by which one can place a book order to a bookstore or
distributor on the Internet.  Delivery is through the US Postal Service,
or Federal Express, or whatever.

Has anyone had experience with this?

I'd like some leads on this; FAQ's, addresses, or whatever.

Thanks.

jnorman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Ancient History Novels
Date: 23 Jan 1993 13:20:09 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Gore Vidal's CREATION fits in here as does Gary Jennings AZTEC,
THE WANDERER, and RAPTOR (if Meso-American ,Mediaeval, and early
Dark Ages count). There is another pre-Columbian civilization
author (Somebody Peters) who wrote THE LUCK OF HUEMAC (about an
Aztec ball player; woof, a real game where the losers were 
killed), TIKAL (lowland Maya) and INCA (somewhat contemporaneous
with Pizarro, the former Extremaduran swineherd). Good stuff.
(If you like that sort of stuff).
-- 
Ted....
From: cliff@marasai.asd.sgi.com (Clifford O. Thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Naval History Book request
Keywords: Tryon, Victoria, Markham, Camperdown
Date: 28 Jan 93 22:26:13 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

A friend and I were talking about the film "Kind Hearts and Coronets," which
is a mutual favorite.  He had to take issue with one of the incidents in
the film, where a d'Ascoyne (sp?) heir effectively kills himself by issueing
a foolish order on a Naval manouver.  It causes his ship to be rammed by 
anopther ship, and the heir "stubborn to the last" goes down with his ship.

My claimed that this was too incredible to be believed, even in a comedy, and
that it diminished his enjoyment of an otherwise excellent film.  I claimed
it was based on a real incident in the British Navy.  I remembered having
read a book in elementary school about an admiral who had gone down with
his ship under similar circumstances, but couldn't recall the author or
title of the book.  All that I could remember was that one of the ships was
the H.M.S. Camperdown.

During a break today, I went to Printer's Inc, and picked up "Dreadnought,"
by Robert Massie, and looked up Camperdown in the index.  I found the whole
story, and, needless to say, can now win the argument with my friend.  The
two ships were the H.M.S. Victoria, and the H.M.S. Camperdown.  The admiral
in question was Vice Admiral Sir George Tryon, C in C of the Mediterranean
Fleet, and he was on board the Victoria, and went down with it after issuing
the order that resulted in its being rammed by the Camperdown.

Enough for the scenario, here're the questions -

1. Does anyone out there know of a book specifically about this incident?  The
   one I read years ago was specifically about the collision.

2. Anyone know of other military histories about bungling or stupidity by
   the commander(s) lost the day?  I seem to recall a book titled "From the
   Jaws of Victory" about such events.

Thanks in advance!

Cliff Thompson
From: dprezios@ep.ieee.org (D Preziosi)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Vanity Fair, or the long sojourn
Date: 27 Jan 93 13:34:38 GMT
Reply-To: dprezios@ep.ieee.org
Organization: IEEE, New York, NY

In article 106509@netnews.upenn.edu, crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
> 
> Last night I finally finished the last of 950-odd pages of Vanity Fair, and 
> I found myself wondering why I'd bothered.  That's a bit harsh -- I did
> enjoy the book; the humor is fun, the characters are occasionally
> diverting (though Amelia, the "tender parasite," is one of the most
> irritating characters in Victorian fiction -- was she supposed to be held
> up as a feminine ideal?  Bleah!), and the skewering of rigid society is
> welcome.  
> 
> But I can't imagine why Thackeray felt he needed 950 pages to tell that
> story.  Probably it was the whole serialization problem again, a la
> Dickens.  Gotta pad, pad, and pad again.  
> 
> I did find myself rooting for Becky, the "little adventuress," most of the
> time; in the end, she was the only element of the story that held my
> interest.  
> 
> Has anyone else waded through this or any other endless book, and wondered
> why?
> 
> 
> -- 
> I can identify with steelworkers.  I can identify with workers that have
> had a difficult time.      -- Former Vice-President Danforth Quayle
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu


Yes! I spent the Christmas/New Year week plodding through _Sons and Lovers_.
The 450-page edition I read seemed to be at least twice that, and I got so
bored I actually began hoping for actual (not symbolic) incest between Paul
and his mother. Does anyone know if Lawrence had to serialize? The first
third of the novel seems almost superfluous....
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.politics.soviet
From: pmsc13sg@UMASSD.EDU (Stephen Grossman)
Subject: Re: Robert Conquest's _The Great Terror_F
Reply-To: pmsc13sg@UMASSD.EDU
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:59:36 GMT

In article <vzhivov.728115222@cunews>, vzhivov@alfred.carleton.ca (Vladimir Zhivov) writes:
>
>This thread has degenerated into verbal diarrhea - can we talk about
>something else; for instance, the shifting of Russian foreign policy
>more and more in support of Serbia.

SG	Have Marxist mass murderers, anywhere, been publically punished? I have 
no knowledge of such events. I think they should be tried for mass murder. Of 
course, Marxism remains influential among intellectuals and so they probably 
won't be punished. Eg, E. Germany's Hoenecker was a Marxist dictator and yet we 
are supposed to care that he is dying of cancer. He was part of the largest 
mass murders in history. In justice, he should die. Perhaps, if mass murderers 
are killed in sufficient numbers, mass murder will be less likely to occur. At 
least, the failure to kill mass murderers will encourage more mass murder.
	Also, those who intellectually and politically protect mass murderers 
must be publically damned and denied any respect. 
________________________________________________________________________________
	"In that world, you'll be able to rise in the morning with the spirit
you had known in your childhood: that spirit of eagerness, adventure and cer-
tainty which comes from dealing with a rational universe."
                                                              AYN RAND
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Grossman <PMSC13SG@UMASSD.EDU>
================================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: stame@emunix.emich.edu (Stewart Tame)
Subject: Re: "Harlan Ellison's Watching" by Harlan Ellison
Organization: Eastern Michigan University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 16:27:00 GMT

In article <22JAN199312443330@rigel.tamu.edu> spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius) writes:
>+-----------------------------------SubG-----------------------------------+
>There's a novelization of the first n (I'm not sure how many) episodes of
>the series called _Phoenix Without Ashes_, in which the essay alluded to
>above appears.  The books is attributed to some author whose name I recall
>only murikily (Edward Bryant?) and H.E., although the actual text was 
>written by the former based on the screenplays (including the one that
>one the Screenwriting Award of Unusual Size [I don't recall the name of
>the award, in short]) written by the latter.
>

Ed Bryant is indeed the author to whom the book is attributed.  Actually
the byline is "Edward Bryant & Harlan Ellison" but I seem to recall Harlan
(in the intro maybe?) bending over backwards to praise Ed's virtues as a
writer and downplaying his own role in the book considerably.

****************************************************************************
 I understand it's obligatory to mention Kibo somewhere in one's postings.
****************************************************************************
		Email:  stame@emunix.emich.edu
****************************************************************************
Disclaimer:  Not only do my opinions represent those of Eastern Michigan
University, but also those of Dan Quayle, Richard Nixon, Frank Zappa,
Pee-wee Herman, Bart Simpson, Tipper Gore, Murphy Brown, Maggie Thatcher,
and the Easter Bunny.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: lew@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (lewis.h.mammel..jr)
Subject: Re: Pigs is Pigs
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 03:41:51 GMT
Summary: Got it

In article <1993Jan21.233708.2172@sctc.com>, boebert@sctc.com (Earl Boebert) writes:
> [Various speculations about the authorship deleted.]
> 
> 
> "Pig is is Pigs", the strange and terrible story of Mike Flannery, the
> Wescote agent of the great and powerful Interurban Express Company,
> was written by the undeservedly obscure American humorist Ellis Parker
> Butler.  The story, along with other of Butler's works such as "The
> Great American Pie Company," was reprinted by Dover, ISBN 0-486-21532-6.
> 
> Earl
> 
> 

This was in my public library. I was surprised to learn from the
back cover that "Ellis Parker Butler's humor classic, 'Pigs is Pigs'
has long been considered one of the finest examples of American humor."
Of course, that sentiment itself dates from 1966.

The story seems to draw on fears of being swamped by immigrants.
This thought was triggered when Flannery refers to the Guinea pigs
as "Dago Pigs". There is also a mention of "race suicide". I suppose
the officers of the Interurban Express Company represent the WASP
establishment. The Guinea pig problem finally comes home to them
after an initial period of isolation from it. The problem itself
is not actually resolved in the story.

The really exciting news, though is the inclusion of the infamous
"NOT!" construction in a 1906 publication: ( CAPS are italics in original )

	"Proceed to collect," he said softly. "How thim clerks do
	loike to be talkin'! ME proceed to collect two dollars and
	twinty-foive cints off Mister Morehouse! I wonder do thim
	clerks KNOW Misther Morehouse? I'll git it! Oh, Yes! 'Misther
	Morehouse, two an' a quarter, plaze.' 'Cert'nly, me dear
	frind Flannery. Delighted!' NOT!"

Lew Mammel, Jr.
From: glink@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Gary Link)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Looking for out-of-print O.S.Card/H.Ellison
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:23:04 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In the from of the HE Hornbook is a list of his books and publishing
dates up to 1990 when the Hornbook came out.

If you find any, buy doubles if they have them, and drop me a line.

Don't call Stuart Tame, he really doesn't need them as much as I do.
Really.

Susanna

Of course, if they are hysterically high priced, call Stuart first.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ks@cs.brown.edu (Kate Sanders)
Subject: Re: Vanity Fair, or the long sojourn
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 00:23:33 GMT

In article <106509@netnews.upenn.edu> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
>
>Last night I finally finished the last of 950-odd pages of Vanity Fair, and 
>I found myself wondering why I'd bothered.  


Funny, the reactions seem to be unanimously negative on this one. I
read Vanity Fair a few years ago and found it surprisingly relevant --
Becky Sharpe's intense ambition and the other characters' discomfort
with it seemed exactly on point for the Yuppie Era. But then I like
Trollope and Dickens too ...

Ambition often seems to be pictured in a bad light in literature --
cf. Uriah Heep and Flem Snopes (perhaps because writers have different
ambitions?) Can anyone think of a book with a more positive view of
worldly ambition?

Kate
From: feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Michael Feld)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Most-anthologized English-language poem
Date: 24 Jan 93 17:28:35 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

From the _Globe and Mail_'s review of William Harmon's _The Top 500
Poems_ (Jan. 23, 1993):

"400 poetry anthologies were fed into a computer and voila -- the 500
most anthologized English poems rose to the top.  A revealing snapshot
of one aspect of Wesern civ, even including a list of the poems in
order of popularity. (... is Number 1.)"

Can you guess?  I couldn't; but the winner is neither trivial nor
inappropriate.
-- 
Michael Feld                  | E-mail: <feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Dept. of Philosophy           | FAX: (204) 261-0021
University of Manitoba        | Voice: (204) 474-9136
Winnipeg, MB, R3T 2M8, Canada
From: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Censorship
Date: 25 Jan 1993 20:57:11 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Reply-To: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: ansible.pubs.stratus.com

Doug Quarnstrom writes
>I am curious.  When was the last time the US banned a book?
>
>Is there any literature out there that discusses the history
>of censorship in the US, particularly within the last 50 years or so?

I don't think the US as a nation has censored a book since, maybe, the '30s.
Maybe earlier.  James Joyce's book Ulysses had all kinds of problems
being published here back in the '20s.

Some libraries and school committees still ban books.  

** lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Internet) Laurie.Mann (GEnie) **
******      And now for something completely different...     ******
From: ah@dunaad.co.uk (Alan Hunter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Proof Reading
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:59:32 GMT
Organization: Dunathad


From the publisher's note to the first edition of ``Revolt in the
Desert'' by T.E. Lawrence (without permission, whether such is
necessary or not).

-*-

It seems necessary to explain that the spelling of Arabic names
throughout this book varies according to the whim of the author.

The publisher's proof-reader objected strongly to the apparent
inconsistencies which he found, and a long and entertaining
correspondence ensued between author and publisher.  The authors
attitude can best be judged from the following extracts...

Question:
Slip1. Jeddah and Jidda used impartially throughout. Intentional?

Answer:
Rather!

Q: Slip 16. Bir Waheida, was Bir Waheidi.
A: Why not? All one place.

Q: Slip 20. Nuri, Emir of the Ruwalla, belongs to the 'chief family of
the Rualla'. On Slip 33 'Rualla horse', and Slip 38, 'killed one
Rueli'. In all later slips 'Rualla'.
A: Should have also used Ruwala and Ruala.

Q: Slip 28. The Bisaita is also spelt Biseita.
A: Good.

Q: Slip 47. Jedha, the she-camel, was Jedhah on Slip 40.
A: She was a splendid beast.

Q: Slip 53. 'Meleager, the immorral poet.' I have put 'immortal' poet,
but the author may mean immoral after all.
A: Immorality I know. Immortality I cannot judge. As you please:
Meleager will not sue us for libel.

Q: Slip 65. Author is addressed 'Ya Auruns', but on Slip 56 was
'Aurans'.
A: Also Lurens and Runs: not to mention 'Shaw'. More to follow if time
permits.

Q: Sherif Abd el Mayin of Slip 68 becomes el Main, el Mayein, el
Muein, el Mayin and el Muyein.
A: Good egg. I call this really ingenious.

In the face of such replies to the publisher's well-intentioned
questions, further expostulation was clearly impossible.

-*-




-- 
Alan Hunter
Johnson Hunter Ltd
Isle of Islay, Scotland
A.Hunter@dunaad.co.uk          fax: +44-496-2336         voice: +44-496-2286
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26635 talk.politics.soviet:10854