From: Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Who Is Really Oppressed?
X-To: NAO PARKHURST
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:37:00 GMT

nparkhu1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Nao Parkhurst) writes...
NP> In article <1992Nov27.014716.13394@zooid.guild.org>, Will Steeves
NP> <goid@zooid.guild.org> writes:
NP> > gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch) writes...
NP> >
NP> > GF> My observations of the pre-Civil Rights South were that
NP> > GF> the white people were psychologically worse off than the
NP> > GF> black people; this was consistent with many other observers
NP> > GF> I spoke to at that time, although I don't know of a
NP> > GF> quantified study.  Being a member of an oppressor class is
NP> >                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
NP> > GF> not necessarily easier than being a member of an
NP> >     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
NP> > GF> oppressed class, psychologically speaking.  Yet the
NP> >     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
NP> > GF> oppressor class, or at least the dominant parts of it,
NP> > GF> can clearly be oppressing the other in terms of material
NP> > GF> goods, social status and privilege, and so forth.
NP> >
NP> >
NP> > Gordon, while we've had this particular scrap before, let me bring it up
NP> > in another form...
NP> >
NP> > Hence, I would challenge your use of the term "oppressor class" to describ
NP> > Whites, though I would suggest that this designation be given to "upper cl
NP> > White bigots" rather than to *all* Whites.
NP> >
NP> > I realise that this is a race issue, but I brought it up, in order to call
NP> > upon similar claims that men are an "oppressor class," whereas only a smal
NP> > minority controlled and participated in the oppression.


NP> Truly you are a fool. Mr. Parkhurst, to think that only slaveowners were
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This attempt at an insult was carried off rather sloppily, but I usually ignore
insults.  At any rate...


NP> oppressors.  The act of accepting slavery and reaping the benifits of
NP> slavery in an act of oppression.


Yes, I agree with you, Mr. Parkhurst, but the fact is that a lot of people
did *not* agree with the institution of slavery, and did *not* own slaves
(ie., this does seem to be the only way to "reap the benefits" of slave
labour)


NP> If one person is doing a wrong, nothing
NP> will come of it unless that person has the support + physical or social -
NP> of others.

Not necessarily.  What if "the others" were too afraid of *becoming* slaves
themselves, for speaking out?  (If I recall correctly, there *were* whites who
were slaves, but they were whites who were considered criminals, I believe...
And if by speaking out, one can "become a criminal," one might also end up
becoming a victim of the system that they wanted to oppose).


NP> 99.9% of the European-Americans during slavery's heyday were
NP> oppressors in one sense or another, including your family (and you
NP> obviosuly for thinking this way.)   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Excuse me, but my family primarily originated from England, having only moved
to Canada within the last few decades.  During the days of black slavery in
America, my ancestors were making minimum wage and working 100 or so hours a
week in mines and factories, essentially slaves on a salary.  So don't be
telling ME what that my family was "benefiting from oppression" - they WERE
oppressed, about as oppressed as every labourer during the early Industrial
Revolution!

More to the point, consider a recent message by Seth Breidart - He might be
"white," but in the last century, his "family of white oppressors" was running
in fear of being executed in the pograms!  Some white oppressor *he* is, sheesh!

I might not fit your agenda, but please keep your "oppressor" labels *off* of me
thank you.

---
Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                      "Neil Hull is GOiD"
ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids            "GOiDS Rule"
(416) 322-7876

"Cthulhu for President in '92 - Why vote for the _lesser_ of two evils?"
                                                          - Bronis Vidugiris
---
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