From: onstott@a.cs.okstate.edu (ONSTOTT CHARLES OR)
Subject: Re: WHAT IS LOVE?
Organization: Oklahoma State University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 00:40:50 GMT

From article <1992Aug30.170636.5059@cis.umassd.edu>, by pmsc13sg@UMASSD.EDU (Stephen Grossman):
> Love is an emotion proceeding from the evaluation of an existent as a positivevalue and as a source of pleasure, acc/to Ayn Rand.

Perhaps Rand needed to read more Meister Ekhart, or re-read Paul's 
definition of Love in Corinthians with a clearer mind.  There exist
several schools of thought who consider Love to be Endurance if anything
else.  Endurance is not something that needs a positive value nor is
it something that must be a source of pleasure.  In fact, if either of
these were the case, it would hardly be endurance.

In particular, you might want to look into psycho-analytic schools
of thinking, if you are trying to avoid religious material(as Rand
was atheist), for there you will find that Love turns out to be 
Endurance in many respects.  See the writings of Freud, Jung, and
Fromm for more information on this.  By the way, Love for Freud
is not always that which seeks pleasure--although his writings
lean in that direction.  For good counter arguments in this respect
see Carl Jung's discussions of the Libido.  See _Psychological Types_,
and _Symbols of Transformation_, Part 2 chapters 2 and 3.  Also 
look to "On Psychic Engery."(Jung's own reference.)  You might also
look to _Freud and Psychoanalysis_, _The Structure and Dynamics
of the Psyche_.  In terms of Fromm you might look to _The Art of
Loving_ although it is popular, and somehow gets discredited as
such, it is a small book which explores the topic well.   Also, 
you might look for Fromm's _To Have and To Be_, also see
_The Heart of Man_.
Also, you might want to look to Robert A.
Johnson, _We: The Psychology of Romantic Love_ for a psycho-analytical
realignment of the concepts of Love and Romantic Love.

If religious material does not bother you, and I can already anticipate
the problem of Love from the Rand point of view, then look to
Meister Ekhart, in particular Collected Sermons (ed Matthew Fox),
Fox's writings, in particular _Original Blessing_, and to
the book _The Cloud of Unknowing_(Author unknown).  You might also
find that Paul Tillich offers some counter definitions of love,
on this topic see _The Courage to Be_ and also his collection of
sermons entitled _The New Being_.

In terms of literary understandings of Love, look to D. H. Lawrence,
in particular _The Rainbow_, and to his poetry.  Also, in terms
of literature, you may want to read L'histoire D'O(THe Story of O)
by Pauline Reage for an extreme definition of love based on the 
pleasure within pain.  I refer you to this text primarily because
the english, Bantum I think, translation offers essays which attempt
to describe this book as mystical.  I disagree that it is mystical
for the reason that our heroine, O, appears to be "enjoying" her encounters
too much, and as such can not define the text, and love issues, as
mystical.  Compare those essays to Ekhart for a good overview of
love problems.

The above list was intended to refer you to different schools of
thought on love that do not retain the "pleasure" or "positive assesment"
elements of love.

  Because of the overwhelming amount of love literature not focused
in the the Randian conception, I have to assume that either Rand is
wrong, or she is not remaining purely "Objective."  IF you want to
beg the question by talking of "things exist" and "its all in 
context," I can provide you with several pieces of documentation,
drawn primarily from William James _The Varieties of Religious Experience_
that can show that love, at a personal level(these are diary entries)
is not that which is always pleasure.  This would be an objective
method of documentation lest you wish to call the authors of said
documentation liars.

BCnya,
  Charles O. Onstott, III

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles O. Onstott, III  Account at Oklahoma State University for summer.
Graduate Student in Religious Studies           onstott@a.cs.okstate.edu
University of Chicago
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