From: shannah@netcom.com (Teri Miller)
Subject: Re: Picking up the Tab (was: Re: What is gold-digging?)
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:57:06 GMT

In article <102594@netnews.upenn.edu> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
>she didn't know well but who seemed nice asked her out to dinner and a
>symphony orchestra concert.  Let's call him Sam.  She said yes.  They'd
>never been out together before.
>
>The big evening arrives.  He asks her to drive to the restaurant and meet
>him there (she lives quite far away).  Fine.  They meet at the restaurant,
>and she discovers that another couple will be joining them.  She knows the
>man in the other couple pretty well (call him Joe), and they're friends, so
>she's a bit surprised but thinks it's fine.  They eat dinner.  The check
>comes.  Joe pays for himself and his date.  Sam, however, only pays his
>half of the bill, leaving Jane to pay her half.  
>
I feel that having another couple join them without having told Jane
is rude.  I've had that happen before, and was very uncomfortable with it.

However, what is this "leaving Jane to pay her half"?  Didn't she
offer to pay for her own meal?  Why not?  I would have.

>They get to the concert.  "By the way," says Sam, "the ticket is $40." 
>(Joe, meanwhile, has paid for his date.)  So Jane pays that, too.
>
Why did Sam have to ask her?  Doesn't Jane have any class at all?
I would have asked ahead of time for details about the date, including
whether he would like me to pay him back for my ticket, etc.

What difference does it make whether or not Joe pays for his date?

>POP QUIZ:  
>1) When Sam asked Jane out again a couple of weeks later, what do
>you think her response was?  
>
>2) Do you think Jane thought to herself:
>	
>	a. "That Sam, what a prince of a guy!"
>  
>	b. "Sure hope he asks me out again!"
>
>	c. "I feel like a total scumwad and intend to join a convent.
>	    But first I hope he gets incurable hives."
>
If Sam actually asked her, she should consider herself lucky.

If she liked his conversation, and enjoyed being with him, she should
say yes.  (And this time, treat him a little more fairly!)  If she didn't
she should say no.

I don't think it's ever bad manners to simply ask the other person how
they would like to deal with things.  I've had friends take me out to
lunch, and I will either just accept it if they state bluntly that they
want to buy me lunch, or will offer to help pay in as polite a way as
I can.  When I take them out to lunch, I offer specifically: "I would
like to treat you to lunch at Il Fornaio.  Is Thursday good?"

Making assumptions is deadly.  I keep hearing "I'd never go out with a
man who expected me to pay for the date.  I'd never go out with a woman
who expected me to pay for the date.  I always go dutch."  

It's much much easier to simply talk with the other person and find out
what their preferences are.  The times I haven't done that, I have bitterly
regretted it.

After all, if you can't even say to this person "Hey, would you like me
to go in with you on the bill?" what in the *world* are you doing out on
a date with them?

If the preferences the other person states are not acceptable to you,
you can either try to renegotiate them, or give it up.  Beats the hell
out of going out with someone when all you want is to see the back
of their head.

To tie this into another thread: yes, when I was single, I used to get
asked out a *lot*.  Yeah, sometimes weekly.  I think the reason had less
to do with my looks (average) and more to do with being easy to talk to
and willing to negotiate.  Men didn't have to get out their wallets and
ask the advisors within (you know, Lincoln, Hamilton, Washington?) if
they could take me out.  If we wanted to go do something, we'd see if 
our pooled resources were sufficient: if not, we'd do something else.
Sometimes they drove.  Sometimes I drove.  Sometimes they would drive
my car.  Whatever.  If I felt someone was taking advantage of me, I'd
stop it (loaning the car, funding our dates, whatever) .  If I felt
I was on the receiving end too much, I would try to do something special
for that person to make up for it.

Often I asked men out.  I asked my husband out on our first date.
Why not?  If I want to go out with someone, why wait for him to ask?
One time, I had the guy insist on doing the stereotypical "female"
thing: insisted I not only plan the whole date but pay for the whole
date.  Sheesh.  I can certainly understand why guys hate that!  



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Teri Miller                    tmiller@cisco.com -or- shannah@netcom.com
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