HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shane@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Shane Brown)
Subject: Re: Can anyone be a Black Belt?
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Organization: Psychology Department, U.Q
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 02:29:52 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.152258.18293@math.okstate.edu>, hoff@fasic5.tmc.edu
(Jim Hoff) wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 	I just thought I'd put this question to the group.  A while back,
> I got into a rather heated argument with other senior members of my (then)
> doj*.  I asked them if anyone who came through their doors could eventually
> become a black belt.  There answer was that as long as anyone came regularly,
> paid his dues, and paid for testing, that person, regardless of whether or
> not he could walk and chew gum at the same time, would get his (or her) 
> black belt.  This was, in fact, evidenced by the wide assortment of black 
> belts at this dojo who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.
> My next question to them was "When does someone have to be good?"  In other
> words, when does ability become a prerequisite for advancement.  They had
> no answer.


...well, black-belts in our Ju-Jutsu dojo came to be black-belts because
they
possessed sufficient knowledge (and the ability to apply same) to teach
earlier grades. People who do not wish to be involved in teaching seem to
stay at brown belt level. I suppose belt-colour is pretty irrelevant unless
there are specific duties/roles adopted by those who achieve a particular
level. If a real responsibility is implied by a grade, then no-one should
reach that grade undeservingly. Buying a black-belt with time and money
seems to be a negation of
all that a black-belt has generally come to stand for. I don't feel the
same about the very early grades, which can be used to an extent as a
reward for dedication, and an incentive for more (hey, it worked for me).
By the way, I am not a "colour head", ie. belt colour is not the be all and
end all to me, but since this sort of system has been well and truly
adopted, why taint it (pardon the pun) ? 
    Is a black-belt a reward for effort, or a recognition of proficiency ?
If you are going to give one to everyone eventually, then it must be the
first. If you use the second definition, then not everyone is going to make
it. Who says that everyone should ? If I played tennis my whole life I
don't think I would make it to A grade.

anyway, enough..

cheers, Shane.

(o  ) (o  )      ( o ) ( o )      (  o) (  o) ~ Shane Brown      ~
                                              ~ Opinion ....     ~
Pith Inclusion Phase: "Pith pith pith pith"   ~ "Mine mine, all  ~
Humour Inclusion Phase: "Wit wit wit wit"     ~  mine..Muhahaha" ~     
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_~_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-~
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Re: Headlock escape for non-vampires (was Re: Biting in the MA's?)
Summary: From the catalog of gourmet streetfighting ... ;-)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 18 AUG 92 09:23:40    


>In article jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd) writes:
>|> you can also reach around
>|> with your left hand and insert a finger between his cheek and gums,

If you get headlocked often, you could carry a hot pepper for the occasion.
You reach up, and insert it into their mouth as above, then, when they bite
to get to your fingers, they chow down on the pepper and run off to get some
beer to wash it down with.  Of course, you should be gone when they return,
unless you have prepared an appropriate dessert.  

This may not work too well if your opponent likes hot peppers without beer,
but then no escape is foolproof, eh ?

For vampires, substitute a garlic clove for the pepper, of course.

							todd
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner)
Subject: Re: Awww, rats...
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:56:25 CDT

In article <1992Aug19.032349.21405@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Eric Sotnak) writes:
>In article <3466@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>>	Personally, I squish cockroaches.  In fact, one of the nice things
>>about rats is that they eat cockroaches.  Anything that eats cockroaches
>>is OK in my book...  I wonder if Lauren is vegetarian?
>
>
>  Actually, there might be some positive ethical merit to squishing roaches
>(the same may not be true for rats -- I don't know).  The argument, in
>brief, goes like this:  If you don't squish the roach, it may live to
>produce more roaches, which will make more, and so on until the roach
>population is big enough to warrant calling in an exterminater to zap them
>with nasty health-threatening and environment-wrecking chemicals.  But not
>all the roaches will die, in all probability.  Those that survive will have
>a higher resistence to the pesticides than their forebears, and they'll pass
>this on to their descendants, etc.  So squishing the roach may have, in the
>long run, better ethical repercussions than not.  On a consequentialist
>ethic, then, the right thing to do is to squish the roach.


... the same argument could be applied to people... and has been...

-Lauren
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: ken tori - Aikido
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:35:45 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <4494@news.duke.edu> ndd@bal1 (Ned Danieley) writes:
>bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers) writes:
>..
>: >directed at the left side of my neck, I step forward with my left foot under
>:                                  ^^^^
>..
>: It seems to me that yoko_MEN_ is being incorrectly performed or named
>: here.  yokomen in Muso Shinden Ryu is _always_ to the temple, not to
>: the neck.
>
>interesting. in my Aikido dojo, despite calling the strike yokomen,
>we also strike to the neck, trying to hit at the point where the neck
>joins the shoulder, and then cutting on a diagonal to a point just
>above the opposite hip. at what angle do you perform yokomen?
>

Sounds more like kesa-giri to this untutored soul...

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.X. Saunders )
Subject: Re: What is Sticky Hands (was Re: Wing Chun style...help!)
Originator: kxs5829@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 20:20:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.011755.17002@uwm.edu> ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty) writes:
>kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.X. Saunders ) says:
>
>
>>Um, no offense to you personally Marty, but someone would do well to
>>avoid William Cheung and his teachings.
>>
>>	- Kyle
>
>Well, that's the usuall "I don't believe in Classical Wing Chun"
>approach.  I'm under William Cheung's organization.  It's

	Well, Marty, you might be a good example of "I believe everything
I'm told".

>(Classical Wing Chun) been proven, he did defeat Leung Ting
>and a few other notable Wing Chun people in a challenge match,
>they all signed a document attesting to this, which WAS published.
>This was in the late 70's -early 80's.  Many people have forgotten
>about it.  It's over with.  He, as are many others, are just interested

	Perhaps a course in elementary logic would be in order.  William
Cheung claims that he knows "classical" wing chun and nobody else does.  He
beats some other wing chun people.  How exactly are the two related?  The
existance of the second does not prove the first all by itself.

>in bringing about a unity and common respect in the Wing Chun familly.
>Let's just leave it at that before this turns into a big flame war
>that neither person will win.  We're not William Cheung, or Leung Ting,
>or any of the others.  It's between them.

	William Cheung and Leung Ting are a couple of the bigger scams in
Wing Chun.

	- Kyle

-- 
+-"Remember, [MS]DOS is sort of a UNIX deviant already" - dmoscny@piglet.-----+
|    // Only /\          kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu                 cincinatti. |
| \ //      /--\MIGA     kyle@nick.csh.rit.edu                    oh.us       |
| \X/ SQLdb - $40 rdbms  Rochester Institute of Technology                    |
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: rschoen@laborixsai.mathematik.uni-ulm.de (Reinhard Schoen)
Subject: Re: conflict avoidance
Reply-To: rschoen@laborixsai.mathematik.uni-ulm.de (Reinhard Schoen)
Organization: University of Ulm, SAI, Germany
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 14:23:43 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.224714.24029@pixel.kodak.com>,
lund@ssd.kodak.com (Nate Lund) writes:

|> In article <1992Aug20.145321.5619@zip.eecs.umich.edu>
|>  lauren@bushmill.eecs.umich.edu (Brian T. Murray) writes:
|> >[...]                          I have a question.  Are the principles
|> >of conflict avoidance/resolution (which is a legitimate field of
|> >study) taught (semi-)formally in anyone's doj*?
|> 
|> Yes.  As an introduction to this area, we listened to a tape series
|> called The Gental Art of Verbal Self Defense.  The author also has
|> a series of books out, the first one starting with the same name.
|> 
|> Haven't read the books, but based on the tape series, highly recommend
|> any material by this author.  (Sorry, don't have her name on instant
|> recall, but will find it and follow up if sufficient interest.)

INTEREST!!

Could you write an article about what you remember from these tapes?

Reinhard
|> 
|> Nate
|> nlund@kodak.com
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Hojos
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:44:33 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Distribution: usa
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <MARY.92Aug20100127@martinique.Cayman.COM> mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes:
>Try hojojutsu.  It's not used as a weapon, exactly, though...

	You can recognize a hojojutsu dojo by its bright orange roof.  On
Fridays they practice defenses against clam strips.  My favorite is
Dee Pfriem - a hot technique!
								wr
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: Different Karate Fists
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:48:45 GMT

In article <memo.587400@cix.compulink.co.uk> bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>
>Do you use the "standard" all fingers folded fist? 

yup

>The advantage of using these more difficult fists is that they
>reduce the surface area of the strike.

The advantage to using a standard fist is that when you teach 
beginners they don't injure themselves.  I concentrate on simplifying
fighting styles, trying to make them simple and effective at the
same time.

>Very true, the mouth is actually a pretty poor target, better
>to go for the chin or throat. But don't forget the hinge of the
>jaw, the eye, top of the nose, eye brow, temple, loads of targets
>around the neck...etc etc. all good targets and less risky than
>the mouth.

Striking to the eye is an option with a finger jab, etc., but I
doubt I'd ever do it.  I just don't want to poke somebody's eye
out.  As for the eyebrow, just how do you strike that?  In my 
mind's eye, I remember Mike Tyson breaking his hand in that
bareknuckle fight he had a few years back.  He punched the guy -- who
had several stitches and a black eye -- just above the eye and 
broke his hand on the guy's forehead (anybody seen "Gladiator"?).

Dakin
burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
From: pauljone@usc.edu (Michael Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Wing Chung in Las Vegas
Date: 19 Aug 1992 11:23:10 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

A little while ago someone mentioned a Wing Chung teacher in the
Las Vegas area.  Could you write me with any info you might have
about the school.  I looked in the Yellow Pages, but couldn't
find it.


Thanks,
Mike Jones

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe)
Subject: Re: conflict avoidance
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 07:53:00 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Aug20.224714.24029@pixel.kodak.com> lund@ssd.kodak.com (Nate Lund) writes:
>
>Yes.  As an introduction to this area, we listened to a tape series
>called The Gental Art of Verbal Self Defense.  The author also has
>a series of books out, the first one starting with the same name.
>
>Haven't read the books, but based on the tape series, highly recommend
>any material by this author.  (Sorry, don't have her name on instant
>recall, but will find it and follow up if sufficient interest.)

Author: Suzette Haden Elgin.  The book is $6.95 from Barnes and Noble.

Barnes & Noble
Dept. V386 126 Fifth Avenue
New York, N.Y. 10011

Item #1295690   $6.95 + $1.00 P&H
CA, CT, MA, MI, MN, NJ, NY & PA add appropriate sales tax.

Or you can simply send them a buck and they'll send you their catalog
(oops - I guess that's only if you have my coupon from National Review :-)

D

-- 
========================================================================
Dave Smythe   N6XLP    dsmythe@netcom.com (also dsmythe@cs.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: marsup@cs.dal.ca (Mario Ouellet)
Subject: MA vs National Geographic
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:12:18 GMT

Hmmm... Folks?

Would it possible to lay off the Wondeful World of Animals for a bit?
Don't get me wrong: I LOVE animals and enjoy discussing their fascinating
behavioral pattern as much as the next person.

Howver, this IS rec.martial-arts and unless someone starts analyzing the
kangooroo's front kick may I suggest that this discussion be moved to
alt.religion.philosophy.intolerance.rodents.misunderstanding?

Thank you. Have a good day.

MO

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: brian@garfield.cs.mun.ca (Brian Paquet)
Subject: Re: The Christian MA
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 03:17:04 GMT

In article <34299@cbmvax.commodore.com> kominetz@cbmvax.commodore.com (John Kominetz - CATS) writes:
>In article <1992Aug15.025141.12827@cs.mun.ca> brian@odie.cs.mun.ca (Brian Paquet) writes:
>>I do Yoshinkan Karate.
>>[...]
>>
>>BTW anyone out there ever hear of Yoshinkan, or do it...
>>
>
>I have not heard of Yoshinkan karate, but I have heard of a style of Aikido
>called Yoshinkan.  I have also heard it called Yoshinkai, but I am not sure

Gee he snipped my post.
GOOD! Save people from reading the same crap over 20 posts.
Now I get of my soap box, I have done aikido also, the Yoshinkan
Karate I do isn't aikido, they [at least where I do it] might
have similar attitudes, but the practice is just like a normal
karate class.
What does Yoshinkan mean anyway???
From: groome@oxmyx.lab (J. Andy Groome)
Subject: Re: The rat, MA, and others
Reply-To: groome@oxmyx.lab
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:21:20 GMT


In article 27345@walter.cray.com, radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner) writes:

[...]
>
>Wrong again. I have, in fact, had a wild rat jump on my bare thigh
>in the middle of the night. I was not afraid, I did not run, I did
>not attack, and I did not freeze.
>
[...] 

Does anyone remember the episode of Kung Fu when Caine was trapped in a cave? 
I just remember him lying on his back, rocks falling around him, and he noticed a 
scorpion on his stomach. (no telling how he got into this situation :)  He placed
his hands over the scorpion to shield it from the rocks.  After things calmed down
the scorpion led him out of the cave.

Is this a type of harmony that can be obtained from MA or is this Hollywood?
Any opinions?


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Groome
GTE - Contel Federal Systems
 
Internet:	Andy.Groome@oasis.gtefsd.com
Telephone:	(703) 818-5478
Fax:		(703) 818-5484
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Different Karate Fists
Date: 21 Aug 92 22:36:11 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1992Aug21.210454.25459@cs.brown.edu> tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus) writes:
>bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>
>>I have been using the older, "index finger over", fist for the
>>last 9 months. It has several advantages over the standard fist.
>>Mainly it's pre-strike properties allow greater relaxation

A lot of the older Okinawans I've seen make this sort of fist
(including my old sensei in Japan). I could never quite manage
to do it for long periods of time - force of habit.

>  I've seen this in Nakayama's "Dynamic Karate".  One thing that
>  I notice, as I throw a few punches at the screen here, is that
>  my forearm and wrist are indeed much less tense than with a 
>  standard fist, apparently without sacrificing much strength 
>  (although it certainly feels funny, the first two knuckles feel
>  just as stable as before).  This is most certainly attributable 
>  to the lack of tension in the index finger.
>  
>  This might imply that the older index-finger-over fist allows
>  one to better "penetrate", since one's Ki is not blocked at the
>  hand as with the all-finger-folded fist.  Any comments on this
>  speculation of mine ? 

Well, an ol' stick in the mud Western logical positivist might say
that you'd get better penetration simply *because* your arm is more
relaxed - if you don't tense the antagonistic muscles until you've hit
maximum extension your fist ought to accelerate more quickly and reach
a higher maximum velocity. Personally, I refuse to take sides ;-).

Steve
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Yokomenuchi vs Hook-punch (Aikido vs. 'the hook')
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:32:24 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes...
>In stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) writes:
>>You're describing some goon lurching around swinging their arms like a baboon,
>>not a technician leading with long hooks, or even swings.  Long hooks are not 
>>that different from straight punches, as far as Aikido counters are 
> 
>So, is this similar perhaps to a ridgehand?
> 

Long hooks often tend to degenerate into swings.  Ridgehands are sometimes 
delivered like long hooks and sometimes like swings.  
I don't use ridgehands, so I'm certainly no expert on them (and I'd
be handicapped in fighting David - oh oh :-)) but from what I've 
seen of people practicing on the bag with them, they are at best almost 
identical in overall trajectory with what I consider a long hook, except of 
course for the hand position.   One difference it that the hook requires you 
to use your knuckles, and the ridgehand does not, so the ridgehand *can*
(I would think) degenerate even more easily into a wild straight-armed swing.

Swings 'work,' mind you; some people can generate real knockout power with 
them, but they are easier to counter than good hooks or good ridgehands,
and they tend to leave you vulnerable instead of poised for follow-up.

							todd
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Rope as a weapon ?
From: jmeyers@ecst.csuchico.edu (Jeff Meyers)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 21:50:40 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: California State University, Chico

>I saw a tape from a Shao-lin demo (I forget where the demo was).  In it,
>one person maneuvered around his opponent so they were back to back.  He
>then pulled a *belt* out from his gi, looped the ends around his
>hands, and flipped it behind his head, snaring his opponents head/throat.  He
>then bent forward, flipping the unfortunate soul over his back by the
>throat! (for the purpose of the demo, the "flippee" guarded his neck
>with his forearms)

Ahhh, yes!  Good old Tora Katsugi (Tiger Shouldering).  As we are taught
this throw, the belt around the neck is incidental and shouldn't be felt
by the person being thrown.  Probably just one of those nasty things you
can add if you are throwing the "street" form...

At one of our demonstrations, a guy showed this throw using a piece of
chain instaed of his obi.  Looks real bad, but doesn't have to hurt.



-- 
============================================================================
| Jeff Meyers      |  jmeyers@ecst.csuchico.edu      | 3943'N  12148'W   |
| Chico, Ca 95926  |  KD6DIS@KE6LW.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA  | Grid: CN80-CM99 ??  |
============================================================================
From: mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: The Christian MA
Date: 15 Aug 92 02:02:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society

In article <1992Aug14.233439.18367@morrow.stanford.edu> CA.FER@forsythe.stanford.edu (Jennifer Gates) writes:
>
>I was just at a great Paegen (Witches) wedding a few weeks ago and
>we had gests who were all kinds of interesting people. This is just
>another religion (one that happened to be in europe before
>christianity came). So lay off on the religious stuff and lets keep
>to martial arts here...

 That's Pagan, not Paegen. Modern Witchcraft is just that, modern. The
ancient religions of Europe had nothing to do with Modern Witchcraft aka
Wicca, which is a combination of British Folklore, Masonry, and Ceremonial
magic, well shaken. Before you flame me, I'm an initiated Witch
(Gardnerian) so I do know what I'm talking about. The religion I practise
is Asatru though which is Germanic paganism and which is a recreation of
earlier European beliefs.

Oh, and to keep this partially on topic, I'm trying to decide on what the
best martial art would be to take if I was interested in MAINLY self
defense AND spiritual aspects (about equal emphasis with leanings towards
self defense since I have other spiritual things I do). I liked Aikido
(when I took it briefly) but I do not feel that it is very practical
unless you are VERY good.

Wassail,
Al Billings

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Al Billings - Anthropology Undergrad - Admin for the Troth-l Mailing List | 
| SysOp of The Sacred Grove BBS (206)634-1980 -=- mimir@u.washington.edu    |
------------------------------ Cut Here -------------------------------------
begin 644 GRENDEL.PUB
MF58``1%^*@Q":6QL:6YG<RP@06S^`2N`$7JAHA^YG*D:W0:>,_,\N<XL-]7BN
LV+1/'DT4SH3V2$'*(9NAE_,+VB9R.4=@$9R.J1?CL3H!9@HR8+7DD3@%`!$%E
``
end
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: exudms@exu.ericsson.se (New Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Shao-Lin Temple news
Date: 14 Aug 92 21:23:51 GMT
Reply-To: exudms@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

sentimental purpose for us in reminding us where our system
>came from. (I'm always concerned that posting information
>that is of some significance to us may be irrelevant 
>to people less interested in our system).

FROM FUKEIN TEMPLE YOU SAY?
Wow! this is news of the century or two! Just think, Shaolin has been erected!

Come on guys,...wait...ssshhhhhh!...sorry, I though I heard something.

/New Dave
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts