HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rigg@valeron.che.wisc.edu (Tim Rigg)
Subject: Re: Bass Pro Shops
Organization: University of Wisconsin-Madison, Chemical Engineering
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:43:54
	<92352.122323IFRAM@ASUACAD.BITNET>
In-reply-to: 's message of Thursday, 17 Dec 1992 12:23:23 MST

Here is some mail order information that was posted to rec.hunting a
while ago:   

>From: barkelew@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (David Barkelew)
>Newsgroups: rec.hunting
>Subject: Summary: Mail Order Archery Supplies
>Date: 29 Apr 91 21:47:57 GMT


Thanks to all who replied to my request for mail order archery supply
warehouses, and here is the promised summary:

Bowhunters Discount Warehouse, Inc.
        1045 Zeigler Road
        P.O. Box 158
        Wellsville, PA  17365
        (800) 735 2697 (???)
        (717) 432 8611 (orders)
        (717) 432 8651 (service)
        (717) 432 8611 (FAX)

Sport Shop, Inc.
        110 Gordon Street
        P.O. Box 340
        Grifton, NC 28530
        (800) 334 5778 (orders)
        (919) 524 4571 (service)
        (919) 524 3391 (FAX)

Anderson Corporation
        P.O. Box 130
        Grande Ledge, Michigan  48837
        (517) 627 3251 (orders)
        (517) 627 1652 (FAX)

FS Discount Arrow Supply Catalog
        (800) 824 8261 (orders)
        (714) 838 8644 (info and catalogs)
  **NOTE:  I do not have the FS catalog or address

Comments:

Bowhunters Discount Warehouse, Inc. was the most widely recommended
mail-order supplier.  I have catalogs for Anderson, Bowhunters
Discount Warehouse, and Sport Shop.  They all have competitive prices,
with BDW having a very slight edge in price and a moderate edge in
selection, depending upon the particular item of interest.

BDW and Anderson include international ordering info and restrictions.
The restrictions are typically a minimum order and prepayment via VISA
or Mastercard in U.S. dollars.

One other thing, the Sport Shop people sent one of my co_workers a
free catalog in less than a week.  BDW and Anderson took about 3 weeks
each. I still haven't received a catalog from FS.  This may or may not
be indicative of their respective turnaround.  All offer two_day or
over_night service for an additional fee.

I have not placed an order with any of them although I am leaning
towards BDW for my next purchase due to the slightly better variety
listed in their catalog and slightly better prices.





--
 David Barkelew                  Internet: barkelew@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
 University of Texas             THEnet:   UTXVMS::BARKELEW
 Computation Center              BITNET:   barkelew@utxvms
 Unix/VMS Services               YELLnet:  (512)471-3241
   "If I've told you once, I've told you a bazillion times - *NO*! "



--
    ...  Then they came for me,
	   and by that time there was no one
	     left to speak up for me. (Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945)
From: CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: Archery Backstops???
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 09:26:29 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University
NNTP-Posting-Host: tamvm1.tamu.edu

In article <6eCV02iu2f9n01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>
   efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger) writes:
 
>Howdy all:
 
Howdy!
 
 
>My wife is into archery (compound bow), and I would like to set up a
>target area for her in the back yard. I have been thinking of hay bales,
>but am wondering if there is a better more weather resistant backstop
>to use. I am even wondering how good hay does for  compound bows.....
 
 
Hay bales can be a real bear to get a compound bow out of; of course
it's even harder to get a bow stuck in a hay bale!   ;-)
 
Seriously, it depends on how much draw wieght is being used to shoot
the arrows.  A hay bale will be able to stop any aluminumn arrow shot
with less than 50 lbs.  (maybe even a little more).  I've never shot
carbon arrows into a hay bale, but from what I hear, a carbon arrow
might go through with considerably less draw weight.  Question:  are
you looking for something to go behind the target in the case of a real
bad miss, or will this BE the target?
 
      -----------------------------------------------------
Chris Barnes            |   President - Bryan/College Station
cbarnes@tamvm1.tamu.edu |         Retriever Club.
(409) 846-3273 (home)   |   "Dedicated to the betterment of
(409) 845-4437 (work)   |               the retrieving breeds"
Newsgroups: alt.military.cadet
From: brianh@cae.wisc.edu (Brian Huilman)
Subject: Re: Help is available
Organization: College of Engineering, Univ. of Wisconsin--Madison
Distribution: na
Date: 11 Dec 92 15:01:14 CST

nachand@CS.ColoState.EDU (Christopher D. Nachand) writes:
>Greetings, fellow military netters!
>
>I am a Sergeant in the Army Reserves, a Gulf War veteran, and a former AROTC
 [STUFF DELETED] 
>with the class material, have questions about enlisted operations, or just
>generally want an answer to a military question, either post or email me.

I am in the Wisconsin Army National Guard and am an E-6.  I've been reading
this group since it's creation and had wondered if enlisted participation
was proper or would be accepted.  I realize that by the charter, enlisted
members really have no place (and I have no qualms with that).  But after the
"precedent setting" post by Christopher, I thought I'd respond in kind.

I too have served in the Gulf and did a Humanitarian Relief tour in Panama.
I was offered a full-ride scholarship into Army ROTC but turned it down (for
reasons I'm sure will be dragged out of me...).  I suppose I'm posting this for
the same reason as Chris:  If anyone would like to tap an NCOs knowledge base,
I'd be more than happy to oblige.
   
>Glad to see a group such as this has been created - let's all put it to good
>use!

Ditto for me.

Brian Huilman           University of Wisconsin - Madison
                        Department of Electrical/Computer Engineering
"Avoid the Bonk"        brianh@cae.wisc.edu
             _   __o
           ___  `\<,    "Speed is the reward for hard training."
             -  O/ O
Newsgroups: alt.military.cadet
Subject: motivational story
From: cvalj001@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu
Date: 11 Dec 92 17:34:18 PST
Organization: California State Polytechnic University, Pomona
Nntp-Posting-User: cvalj001


   I have a good motivation story to pass along.  I don't rember what book it's
from but I'll find out later.  It goes like this:


  During WWII, the 88th Infantry Division was activated in the U.S.  All of the
personnel were randomly assigned including the division commander, Brigadier
General Sloan.  While training in the states before shipping out, the 88th was
not in a happy mood.  Sloan was considered to be a hard-@#$ by the troops; he
drove them relentlessly, training for hours on end.  They also thought he was an
unnecessarily strict disciplinarian.  He demanded sharp salutes, mirror
polished boots and shoes, pressed uniforms, etc.  He was tough on the division
and the troops hated him.
   When the 88th went into combat during the invasion of Italy, the troops
began to notice their division was something special.  They took fewer losses,
gained more ground, and were generally much more effective in combat than their
sister divisions.  In fact, the 88th was the best Allied division in the ETO. 
During lulls in combat or rest periods, Sloan demanded the high standards and
trained even more.  The troops began to realize that Sloan had turned them into
the best.  They began to develop pride, professionalism, and espirit de corps.
   Later the troops sited several characteristics imbued into them by Sloan to
make them the best Allied division in the ETO.  Some of there traits were;
attention to detail, strict discipline, pride, professionalism, aggressiveness,
and a can-do attitude.  Many of the traits were instilled in them by Sloan's
tireless example, personal prescence, and his demand for sharp D & C, customs
and courtesies, and uniforms.

Hope this story helps.
Cheers!
-- 
---
Daemon E. Hobbs, Cadet, AFROTC
Senior, (Carto/RS/GIS) 
Cal Poly Pomona Geography Dept.
Email: cvalj001@csupomona.edu
Phone: 714-869-3590
Newsgroups: alt.military.cadet
From: rick@IASTATE.EDU (Richard J Langel)
Subject: Re: Hello from a former candidate
Reply-To: rick@IASTATE.EDU (Richard J Langel)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:48:26 GMT



I, too graduated from a state OCS.  I survived a program that started 46 and
graduated 32, so our attrition rate was less than Kevin's.  For us, it took a
lot of self-motivation and desire to get that gold bar than anything.  It is
very true that a sense of humor is extremely important.  This is true because we
had to get a lot of training in a short period of time (the old 10 gallons of
s*it in a 5 gallons bucket).  This caused a lot of stress (as it is supposed
to).  I have since gone back and TAC'd there, and have found that there were two
main reasons why candidates wanted to drop.  The first was they were very unsure
if they really wanted to be lieutenants.  If you're not sure if you want it, you
won't work as hard to get it.  The second was the lack of confidence in their
own abilities to lead.  Some candidates just wouldn't push themselves to test
their grit.

As for rank, we were pretty much lower than an E-1 until our senior phase, which
for those of you not familiar with OCS is the second two-week AT immediately
prior to graduation.  As senior about ready to be commissioned, we were treated
with the respect of the rank we were about to possess, 2LT, but only by the
juniors, who are in their first two-week AT.

If anyone would like to discuss the difference between OCS and ROTC, and the
pros and cons of both, please post or e-mail me.

I am:

	1Lt Rick Langel, IN, IANG
	rick@iastate.edu


--
Richard J Langel
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:53:21 EST
From: John A. Jordan Ii. <JJ9262A@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.military.cadet
Subject: re: ROTC cadets

     The rank of a cadet depends entirely on what situation they are in.  Some
cadets are also enlisted reservists.  They enlisted in the reserves and went
through basic training and AIT before joining ROTC.  When these cadets are
training with their reserve units then they use their enlisted reserve rank.
When cadets are interacting with each other then that same cadet would use his
cadet rank (unless all the other cadets were training with the reserve unit
while that cadet was assigned to the reserve unit).  When the same cadet is
participating in training with a regular or reserve unit that he has been
assigned to *as a cadet* then that person would have the rank of cadet.



     A cadet is not entitled to a salute.  Many enlisted NCO's refer to cadets
as "Cad-idiots".  Since they are officer cadets they must use the officers
club and *not* the enlisted club.  Having the rank of cadet is roughly
equal to being a teenager.  You are expected to act like an adult (officer)
but have none of the duties of an adult (officer).  It gets a little
complicated at times, but it all ends up making sense in a twisted kind of a
way.

     The above information does not represent reality, just my perception
of reality.

Cadet Tony Jordan MSIII
The American University (through Georgetown University)

Newsgroups: alt.military.cadet
From: keith@hydra.unm.edu ()
Subject: Hello from a former candidate
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 19:09:10 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

I've seen posts from Navy, AF, and NCOs, but none yet from victims of any
OCS programs. Any out there? I had the 'pleasure' of attending state OCS,
not Federal. As for motivation (the biggest thread so far), my experience
was that it was a survival thing: OCS (mine, at least) is suffering LESS
from (though not exempt from) the softening of the training mentioned in
other posts. Without tons of motivation, and an unshakable sense of humor,
you didn't make it through the program. I think it has a lot to do with
the probability of being dropped from the program. We graduated 21 out of	44. My feeling is that the ROTC drop/quit rate is a lot lower. Perhaps if
the prospect of having to pay back a scholarship at (E3?) pay was more
real, the motivation would be too.  As for treatment, there was an official
policy letter at the academy making clear to everyone that candidates
were NOT officers, and were not to be saluted, or even addressed by visitors
to the academy, or students in the NCO courses.
More than enuf said for now...
Keith Smith, 2LT, AG, NMARNG  -keith@hydra.unm.edu -no long sig!
Newsgroups: alt.military.cadet
From: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Subject: Cadets
Organization: University of Toronto - Office of the Provost
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 22:16:43 GMT


Are ROTC cadets treated like officers or like other ranks?  Do they
mess with officers, or on their own?  Do they have ongoing contact
with neighbouring reserve units, or even with neighbouring regular
units? The question of morale problems amongst ROTC cadets seems
mind-boggling if cadets are treated as officers, but less so if they
are treated like other ranks.

Aryk Nusbacher
2LT 48th Highlanders of Canada
Newsgroups: alt.military.cadet
From: nachand@CS.ColoState.EDU (Christopher D. Nachand)
Subject: Re: Pros/cons of Warrant Officer vs. Commissioned?
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 05:54:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <~n#@byu.edu> ron@bert.cs.byu.edu (Ron Snyder) writes:
>I'm wondering if anyone will comment on the differences between 
>being a warrant officer vs. a commissioned officer in the army.
>I've joined the army to pay back my student loans, which means
>that I will be _enlisted_ for at least 3 years, but after that,
>I am planning to at _least_ apply for a warrant officer training.
>Several people have told me to skip being a warrant, and to apply
>to OCS instead.  Comments?  
>
>My specifics are that I will be a 74F, and I would really like to
>stay close to the computer side of things (I'm a CS student right
>now).  I've heard that a warrant officer has a _much_ better chance
>at staying with their MOS than a commissioned officer does.
>

<stuff deleted>

My understanding from basic training, AIT, and my 4 1/2 years in the Army
Reserves as an enlisted member is this:  A Warrant Officer is considered a
technical genius - they know their specific field inside and out, and are
usually found in the more technical areas, e.g. helicopter pilots, physician
assistants, computers, intelligence, maintenence, etc.  A commissioned
officer is in a troop leadership role and is commissioned by the President.
The only problem, from what a few of them have told me, is that rank is
very difficult to come by (career CWOs are normally CW3), your work is
seldom noticed (in comparison to the regular commissioned officer's), and
the pay is less than that of a commissioned officer.  The good parts are
that you are closer to the enlisted members - they will respect you and
follow you faster and further/farther than they will a regular commissioned
officer.

If you are planning on staying in the computer field, I would SERIOUSLY
consider looking at the WO program before even thinking of getting a
standard commission.

Just my .02......


Christopher D. Nachand
SGT  USAR
NCOIC  NESD
406 CSH  Denver, CO
>
>--
>Ron Snyder <ron@bert.cs.byu.edu>   <snyderrj@coned1.byu.edu>
>****************************************************************


-- 
Christopher D. Nachand                "We may not be able to carry a tune,
Computer Science Department            but at least we keep on singing."
Colorado State University              - Murphy Brown 
nachand@mozart.cs.colostate.edu        
Newsgroups: alt.military.cadet
From: jdoucette@venus.hollandc.pe.ca (Audemus jura nostra defendere)
Subject: Orders format
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Holland College - Charlottetown PEI
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:24:00 GMT

	Sorry about that last one, guys, my editor went BOOM.  The format 
for orders here in Canada are almost the same as in the US.  We have:
Situation
	Enemy
	Friendly
	Attachments and Detachments
Mission
Execution
	(sub-headings vary -- in Communication Command we have many hideous 
signals-specific headings)
Service Support
Command and Signals

	When I was taught the orders format (both times) I was also told we 
do it this way because it's standard across all NATO countries.  Sounds 
good in theory, doesn't it?

John Doucette
MCpl, 721 Communication Regiment
Newsgroups: alt.military.cadet
From: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Cadets
Organization: University of Toronto - Office of the Provost
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:13:32 GMT

In article <n7j29=a@rpi.edu> bulkem@rpi.edu writes:

>But anyways, what benefits could be derived from such a contact with local
>units (at least in our case)  The reserve center in Albany is modest, and  I
>don't believe there are any surface crafts to ride around in, just a training
>enter.


I had been thinking back to the question of esprit de corps amongst
ROTC cadets.  Talking the question around some of the other subalterns
from my regiment, we were a little taken aback at a complaint about
lack of interest and commitment amongst officer cadets.  We're all
used to dealing with lack of interest and commitment among other
ranks, but officers?  Seemed a bit odd.

One of the factors we hit upon was the likelihood that ROTC
detachments are not quite as socially well-rounded as a whole
officer's mess.  For instance, the officer cadets who are students at
Toronto area universities enter as one of a few OCDT's amongst ten or
twenty subalterns amongst thirty or forty officers in the mess.  In
addition to other subbies for drinking and socialising purposes, and
majors for sage guidance (and drinking and socialising purposes) there
are a bunch of captains around, closer to the OCDTs' age, but with
outside interests and lots of military experience.  Also, there are
lots of warrants, NCO's and other ranks in the regiment.  Without this
sort of environment, I can understand how ROTC detachments could
potentially find that commitment is lacking (though a lot of people
have been describing some pretty committed units as well).

Further, in a town with a few reserve units, there is a larger
community of interest which can socialise and interact militarily.  In
addition to Troy's ROTC unit, there must be a ROTC unit at one of the
campuses in Albany, and perhaps some reservists in Rome?  That sort of
thing.  If the reservists and the ROTC cadets were connected in a
Capital District military community, it might be more fun and interesting.

Anyway, that was the basis for my question.  If ROTC cadets are not a
part of the local reservist community, then it is less weird that
there is a widespread commitment problem.

Aryk Nusbacher, 2LT
48th Highlanders of Canada

Rank and regiment for identification purposes only.  These are my
Newsgroups: alt.military.cadet
From: setmeyer@sage.cc.purdue.edu (the wall)
Subject: Re: West Point email possibilities?
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:16:52 GMT


Do the cadets at the USMA have access to any bbs or node outside the
confines of the Academies?  If so, how do I get in touch?
PS
if any one from WP reads this say hi to 1st semester cadet Drew Eckle
from wally.
	  thanks in advance
	    the wall
Organization: What?  Here?
X-Subliminal-Message: You want to send me lots of cash (unmarked 20's)...
X-ObObnoxious-Message: Just look at your damn self!
X-Notquiteassubliminal-Message: SEND ME MONEY, DAMBIT!  :)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 14:19:17 EST
From: Dave <JDO103@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.military.cadet
Subject: Re: Hello Everyone
Distribution: world
 <101581@netnews.upenn.edu> <11DEC199210305214@jane.uh.edu>
 <1gajhtINN69e@bigboote.WPI.EDU>

In article <1gajhtINN69e@bigboote.WPI.EDU>, chadwemy@wpi.WPI.EDU (Chad Barret
Wemyss) says:
>
>In article <11DEC199210305214@jane.uh.edu> st1ep@jane.uh.edu (Michael J.      )
>Handel
>writes:
>>
>>I've found that the dining-ins go a really long way to promoting better
>>relationships among the cadets.....especially between the IV's and everyone
>>else
>
>The post-dining in parties at someone's apartment never hurts either.
>
Forget the once in a while kinda things.  Here at Penn State (at least while
I was a student) there was a party every week.  I found while I was a student
that it was better to have parties more frequently (Every weekend is good!)
than to have one or two a year.  Really boosted cohesiveness and kept moral
up for us at Penn State, but then, it's always been good on the Drill Team...
Parties are a good way to let off all the steam from all the crap you put up
  Go out and play some football or some other group activity, but keep it more
as a student social function, rather than some extra curricular lead lab...

(If I hear another briefing about safety, before a sporting event, I'm gonna
hurl...be a man and deal with it...)

Newsgroups: alt.military.cadet
From: jdoucette@venus.hollandc.pe.ca (We come in peace. Shoot to kill!!!)
Subject: Re: Discipline in the ranks
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: Kinder, gentler, training destroying the military?
Organization: Holland College - Charlottetown PEI
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:37:00 GMT

In article <watpod72.724097038@cunews>, watpod72@alfred.carleton.ca (George 
Bragg) writes...

>It's been my experience (both as a non-comm and a private, and even as
>an officer candidate once or twice :)) that generally, you get as much
>respect out of the men as you put into them.  A problem in the respect
>department is usually directly traceable to a problem in leadership.
>Remember, it only takes one NCO being "soft" on the men, and they'll
>expect all NCO's and officers to treat them that way.  
>In addition, the "sparkly new privates" you speak of are fresh off the
>street, where they're treated as an equal by their fellow men.
>They're simply not used to being low rung on the totem.  It's the job
>of the corporals, master-jacks and sergeants to shatter these
>illusions as quickly and totally as possible.
>Generally, the sergeant who stands there and sputters on being told to
>"settle down" may not be sure that he is in control to begin with.  In
>fact, the most effective sergeants I've known rarely (if ever) lost
>their temper or screamed or swore.  The candidate is used to reason,
>so you must reason with him, explaining why the military is the way it
>is, and why he is (for the remainder of his GMT course) a scum-sucking
>maggot.  THEN you run him until he pukes.  :)

	For the GMT this is fine.  The problem is, we've received orders to
go easy on them during GMT.  And that "sparkly new Pte"...he was three 
months out of GMT!
	So, the original question remains...is discipline in today's army
getting dangerously slack, and if so, is it our fault or is it the policy 
of the government.  And if it is the policy, what can be done to change it?

John Doucette
MCpl, 721 Communication Regiment
From: be486@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hansel E. Lee Jr.)
Newsgroups: alt.military.cadet
Subject: (no subject given)
Date: 13 Dec 1992 06:00:56 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu



Hello, I am currently the Group Commander at Det 055 (UCLA) AFROTC and am
interested in feedback on AFROTC Field Training preperation activities.

In Los Angeles we have a quad-corps Field Training weekend (UCLA, USC,
Cal State Long Beach, and Loyola Marymount) in April using the 30 hours
of Field Training prep made available by HQ AFROTC..

My question is, do most detachments use the 30 hours alotted by HQAFROTC for
a single training weekend exercise , and if so, what type of activities
do you include in your training weekend..  What is a sample schedule..

Thanks...


Hansel Lee, C/Col, AFROTC

AFROTC Det 055 (UCLA)
izzyej2@mvs.oac.ucla.edu
486@cleveland.freenet.edu
(310) 794-5375
-- 
Hansel Lee                             Internet: izzyej2@mvs.oac.ucla.edu 
University of California, Los Angeles  Bitnet:   izzyej2@uclamvs.bitnet
Economics & Political Science          Freenet:  be486@cleveland.freenet.edu
Newsgroups: alt.military.cadet