HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Florence King
Date: 5 Nov 1992 14:18:18 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Huzzah for misanthropy!
  She not so much "massages our prejudices" but rather sees 
through the folly of wishful thinking about the "perfection
of the species". Human frailty is amusing at best and since
we cohabit the geoid with  our fellow creatures, it's better
to laugh than embark upon upon a jeremiad of angst, dressed
in designer sack cloth and ashes.
-- 
Ted....
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: chucks@uars2.acd.ucar.edu (Chuck Smythe)
Subject: Re: GENIUS:Life/Science of Richard Feynman
Organization: Ntl Center for Atmospheric Research, Atmospheric Chemistry
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:32:13 GMT

In article <11NOV199207592852@portal.lasc.lockheed.com> le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel) writes:

>One of the problems Gleick faced is that some of the stories Feynman tells
>seem to promote the myth of Feynman, but don't reveal the man, and also

...Indubitably.  Feynman worked hard at creating The Legend (though as a naive
undergraduate I didn't see it as such).  Oddly, though, he was the only man
I ever met who had an outsized ego, yet managed not to be offensive.  This
was partly because he took such a child-like delight in being a genius,
partly because he was so transparently honest and innocent of pretense,
partly because his stories were damn well told.
(Not everyone saw it that way; at least one colleague in the Caltech physics
department, who shall remain nameless, thought him an arrogant jerk.) 

>there is a question as to some of their accuracy.

Who cares about accuracy? We're talking about Higher Truth here.  Anyway,
for what it's worth; the tales in _Surely You're Joking.._ were, essentially  
verbatim, those with which he entertained his students over beer a generation
ago. At a minimum, the inaccuracies were well conserved. 

			Chuck Smythe
From: microsoc@black.ox.ac.uk (Microsoc)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Et in Arcadia ego
Date: 9 Nov 92 14:12:48 GMT
Organization: Oxford University Computing Service, 13 Banbury Rd, Oxford, U
Originator: microsoc@black

In article <1denajINN6sn@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>Heather Henderson:
>
>	Francis Muir:

	[lots deleted] 

>	unexpected and spectacular sight of herself quaffing a mug
>	of beer of quite unusual size. Certainly larger than the
>	typical Baliol Sconcing Mug and somewhere between a Quart and
>	a half-Gallon in capacity. If I seemed overly serious at

	[lots more deleted]

Sorry if this is question that should be for alt.usage.english (and therefore
beyond the contempt of the r.a.b.id), but what's a Baliol Sconcing Mug?

Yours,
	Marc Read   (Balliol College)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: A Small Election-Eve Diversion [was: The Truth ac
Organization: Clark University
Date: 5 NOV 92 15:20:39 GMT


zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) writes:

>ncramer@labs-n.bbn.com (Nichael Cramer) writes:
>> 
>>mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
>> 
>>Francis Muir writes:
>> 
>>>Nichael Cramer writes:
> 
>NC:
>>>>[Fido has a hissy fit and Mark responds.]
> 
>FM:
>etc 
>MT:
>etc
>NC:
>etc
NC:
>etc.

Did you ever have a sense of.... deja vu?

Did you ever have a sense of.... deja vu?

I hope you don't take this personally, Mikhail, but you really
don't have to quote at such extreme length from the entire history
of every thread.  The repetition is annoying -- something like being
trapped in a rehearsal hall listening to a troupe of echolalic
actors trying to perfect a scene.  Don't worry, I'm sure most of
us can follow who-has-said-what without your exhaustive attribution.

And you write:
>Is there anyone, and I do mean *anyone*, who can think of a *good*
>reason to care about the gender of the redoubtable Nichael Cramer?

Gosh, Mikhail, you spent all that time and space on attribution just
to work up to this bon mot?  Wow.  Things must be kinda dull over
at Harvard, eh?

The obvious answer, of course, is Nichael him/herself.  My bet is that 
she's female and it's pronounced "Nichelle".  Am I right?  Inquiring
minds want to know.

Did you ever have a sense of.... deja vu?

>cordially,
>mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
>"Un de mes plus grands plaisirs est de jurer Dieu quand je bande."

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
"It's like deja vu all over again." -- Yogi Berra
From: donz@ui.org (Don Zirilli)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: maddona's [sic] new book [sic]?
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:27:20 GMT
Organization: UNIX International, Parsippany, NJ

In article <9211120531.AA07635@cfdev1.shearson.com> mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
>
>onda@ab.wvnet.edu (jason) writes:
> 
>>       can someone send me info on maddona's new book
>>       i am very *curious* as to what it is about?
>>       thanks in advance.
> 
>As with everything else that she does, and in spite of the books's title,
>Madonna's new book is about one thing: Madonna
> 
>Mark
> 
This is all well and good and true, but let us remember one thing.  Madonna
is not Madonna.  She DID put out a book about Madonna, but not about
herself.

Yours,

Posthumous


-- 
nobody/not even the rain/              	/	   /      /  /    
 /   /   /     /   /   / /     /       /    /    // /    /  /         /    
/     / / /   /   /     /   / /    / /   / / /  /  /   /      /      /
   / /   /   /	/	 / /      //    /   / /     / /      / / / 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: The Truth According to Mickie Medved
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 05:29:08 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.222809.10131@grebyn.com> fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster) writes:

>There are things that can't be laughed at?  Topics that contain no
>raw material for humor?  Like what?

Torturing political prisoners to death. To name one thing.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I can solve this Orient Express thing without
mnemonic@eff.org| breaking a sweat. It's that simple."
(617) 864-0665  | 
EFF, Cambridge  |                           --Hercule Perot
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster)
Subject: Re: The Truth According to Mickie Medved
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:45:16 GMT

I wrote:
>There are things that can't be laughed at?  Topics that contain no
>raw material for humor?  Like what?

Mike Godwin offered:
>Torturing political prisoners to death. To name one thing.

Mike Morris wrote:
>``Can't'' may be the operative word. I would say rather ``ought not
>to''.  [fun comments re. Humberto Constantini book deleted]  This book
>comes close to being a counterexample, but I think there's still
>a place where the humor shouldn't go. Angelic laughter, certainly
>not. For that would be to grant us absolution for something we
>haven't even felt ourselves responsible for. Mere forgetting. But, yeah,
>I think there are unfortunately places where even the demonic kind of
>hell-laughter is inappropriate.
               
Well, I don't get into Manichean dichotomies, so angels and devils,
sins and absolution, etc., are outside the scope of this posting.  
But having been a target of extreme violence myself, and having known
well, through my work as a shrink, many folks who were victims and/or
perpetrators of violence and torture, I'll stand up for the value of
laughter.  I certainly agree there is humor that, in context, can be
harmful to people.  But I can't think of a single context that is,
by definition, devoid of the possibility for beneficial humor.  To
echo what another poster (sorry I forgot the name) said, there's
nothing so serious it can't be laughed at.  And there's nothing so
serious we *ought* not laugh at it, either.  

I think the acid test is this: If you yourself are the victim of
the torture, are *you* allowed to make a joke about it?  Of course
you are!  And more power to you for retaining your sense of _l'absurde_,
and, one might even say, your human dignity, by so doing!

I have never read anyone who is more eloquent on the value of laughter
than Elie Wiesel, whose suffering in the Holocaust makes him somewhat
of a 500-pound gorilla in these matters.  In _Gates_of_the_Forest_,
for example, he writes:

	 You mustn't forget laughter either.  Do you know what
	 laughter is?  I'll tell you.  It's God's mistake.  When
	 God made man in order to bend him to his wishes he
	 carelessly gave him the gift of laughter.  Little did 
	 he know that later that earthworm would use it as a 
	 weapon of vengeance.  When he found out, there was
         nothing he could do; it was too late to take back the gift.
	 And yet he tried his best.  He drove man out of paradise,
	 invented an infinite variety of sins and punishments,
	 and made him conscious of his own nothingness, all in
	 order to prevent him from laughing.  But, as I say, it
	 was too late.  

In another passage, one Wiesel character says to another: "You don't
know yet that a man can laugh while he suffers."

I like the implications of "You don't know *yet*..."  I think we all
have more yet to learn, about laughter.

						--cornball as usual,

							Fiona 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: pquince@blacks.jpl.nasa.gov (Peter Quince)
Subject: Re: The Truth According to Mickie Medved
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:20:03 GMT

colten@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (marc.colten) writes:

>In article <1992Nov6.052908.29199@eff.org>, mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
>> In article <1992Nov5.222809.10131@grebyn.com> fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster) writes:
>> 
>> >There are things that can't be laughed at?  Topics that contain no
>> >raw material for humor?  Like what?
>> 
>> Torturing political prisoners to death. To name one thing.
>> 
>What about Woody Allen's Bananas where they use rock music to
>wear down a prisoner, and consider "bringing out the Leroy Neiman
>paintings" as the coup de grace?

I was amazed to hear George Carlin contending this same thing, that 
there was NOTHING that could not be funny.  I'll tell you roughly 
what he said:

~"  Everything is funny, and I'll prove it to you.  Some people don't 
    think rape is funny at all.  Wrong.  Rape is hysterical.  Picture
    this:  Porky Pig raping Elmer Fudd.   "~

Now, whether or not you happen to think this is a good example, it
certainly does not constitute proof.  But it does strengthen the
argument.  I think that the problem itself is inconsistent; it does 
not suit its own medium.  A person goes through phases, at one moment 
grieving a terrible loss, and perhaps years later recovering the 
capacity to laugh, albeit grimly, at the cause of that loss.  

I have never heard a funny holocaust joke; most prey on the prejudices
and fears of ignorance; and such 'sarcastic' humor is a failure of 
spirit.  But humor that is part of understanding and coping with 
terrible realities is valid, I think.  Only it has an appropriate 
time and place as well.

pquince
--


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jeffw2@bmw.cfsmo.honeywell.com (Jeff Walberg)
Subject: John Irving / Robertson Davies
Organization: Honeywell Commercial Flight Systems
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:54:10 GMT

A few months ago I expressed my enjoyment of John Irving's "A Prayer
For Owen Meany" to this group and was pointed to Robertson Davies'
"Fifth Business" as the object of Irving's "parody".  Having recently
completed "Fifth Business", it is obvious that there is a close relationship
between the two books (and likely Davies' "Tempest Tost", as well), though
I think the term parody is incorrect.  

Many of the major themes, characters, and occurences have been obviously
"borrowed" by Irving, but I think I would classify his book as more of a
tribute than a parody.  Then again, I read "Owen Meany" about a year prior
to "Fifth Business"  and might have a different analysis of the book if I were
to read it again.  I certainly thought "Owen Meany" was wonderful on its
own merits and enjoyed it much more than "Fifth Business" (though I was
impressed by Davies' writing).

Anyone else know more about this?

Jeff
--
jeffw2@cfsmo.honeywell.com | He was no skilled rhetorician, and the poor man 
                           | had nothing much in the way of brains,
                           | so very often what he felt came out more clearly 
                           | than what he meant to say.  - Robertson Davies
From: sneering@husc11.harvard.edu (Stanley Sneeringer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Title = "The Remains of Our Days", Author = ?
Date: 10 Nov 92 22:47:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Nov10.174707.17322
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <matess.721321368@gsusgi1.gsu.edu> matess@gsusgi1.gsu.edu (Eliza Strickler) writes:
>There is a book that has been recommended to me with a title
>something like, "The Remains of Our Days". The author is Japenese.
>Does anyone know the author's name and the exact title of this book?
>

The name of the book is _The Remains of the Day_ by Kazuo Ishiguro. Your
friend was right, it's an excellent.


 >Thanks,
>	Elizabeth
>-- 
>
>
>\|/--_   -_-      ----           ###         _- ----------------------
>-0    -_-   --       -__ %~- ____#0        _-   Elizabeth Strickler
>|\     ^                 0\~     /\   /\  -     
>|_(___/ \_    ||_________/     _/  |_/  \_      matess@gsusgi1.gsu.edu 

-skip
From: yarnot@babbage.csus.edu (Jan Yarnot)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Re: The Secret Garden (and Wind In The Willows)
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:58:59 GMT
Organization: Moi?

In article <28190015@hpmwga.sr.hp.com> pamm@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Pam Milligan) writes:
>
>
>>[Then a whole bit envying an author who in a book
>>that just happens to be on the KIDSQUIZ this month manages to get
>>rid of a set of inconvenient parents with an angry rhinoceros.]
>
>Can anyone tell me what the title of this book is?

Well, I *could*, but then you'd get ahead of me in the November Quiz!
I will hint, however, that there are Vermicious Knids in the book.

(Roger, this copy of _Secret Garden_ has no pictures, except for the
(very nice, pinkish, impressionistic) cover.  ("Woodlock: A Welsh 
Homestead" Warrington Museum and Art Gallery, courtesy of Bridgeman
Art Gallery --- no artist credited.)  I often don't buy books with
pictures, though I like Ernest Shepherd or the Oz people.  One of the
things I generally dislike about Lois Lowry's books, as opposed to that
introduction, are the _stupid_ looking people with round heads and
dumb grins.  Wait... are those the same folks as in the early _Betsy-
Tacy_ books??)


Great graphic, Pam!!  My editor or my wonky keyboard loused it up,
or I'd have left it for everyone else to admire again.
--
---Jan Yarnot, net.grandma.-- | A lifetime of smirking behind your hand
                              | is a lot better than a few seconds of
                              | triumph.
CSUS depends on my every word.              Kinsella, _Box Socials_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Property Rights (was re: Progress: The New Great Divide? (was Re: Cult)
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1992Nov6.162648.17284@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:25:57

Society works better when there are property rights along with enough
taxes to motivate people to actually use their property.  Since there
are no property rights in a state of nature, the process whereby
property rights existing today were originally acquired often does
not survive close moralistic examination.

Restrictions on the use of property often diminish prosperity, but
fortunately prosperity can withstand quite a bit of dimunition without
actually leading to starvation.

Those who disagree with the above propositions should compare the
societies that profess to respect with those that don't.

Why are the Russians in such a rush to get their economy privately
owned?
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: [UPI] Library attacked for buying Madonna's Sex book
Date: 14 Nov 1992 01:49:19 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

Barbara Hlavin writes:

	Carl M. Kadie writes:

		The libaray ordered four copies of the book at $49.95 
		each with money provided by an anonymous donor. Two 
		of the copeis will be used for general circulation in 
		the Fine Arts section and two will be used in the
		Reference section

	Reference?? Is this the same library that shelved Adrienne 
	Rich's _An Atlas of the Difficult World_ in Geography? 

If Ms Rich and her publisers are stupid enough to come up with such 
a title for what? a novel? then why are you going after the Huston
Librarians for misplacing it? 


					Fido
From: msmorris@watsci.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Morris)
Subject: Re: The Truth According to Mickie Medved
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 01:45:39 GMT

                                 Tuesday, the 10th of November, 1992

Fiona writes to contradict me:
                                            And there's nothing so
   serious we *ought* not laugh at it, either.  

I understand that there have been counterexamples raised here around
virtually every conceivable ``forbidden'' topic. And I find many of
them laugh-aloud funny.  And yet I cannot help myself thinking
that they are not counterexamples to what I meant.

  I think the acid test is this: If you yourself are the victim of
  the torture, are *you* allowed to make a joke about it?

Is this the acid test? I would have said rather it would be if you
yourself were the torturer.

                     Mike Morris
              (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Humor subjects (was re: Torturing Politicals)
Date: 9 Nov 1992 16:24:16 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


My word, I'm told that the anthopophagist's cook book 
(Serving Your Fellow Man) is not funny....
  So then John Barth's THE SOTWEED FACTOR is a no no for it
does have rape and incest involved??
 Hmph!
-- 
Ted....
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: abl@cybill.inesc.pt (Antonio Leal)
Subject: Re: Columbus and the Egg?
Organization: INESC - Inst. Eng. Sistemas e Computadores, LISBOA. PORTUGAL.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 09:09:46 GMT

neal@hpcndm.CND.HP.COM (Neal Bauer) writes:

   If this was a test of cultural literacy, we all flunked.  Can anybody out
   there enlighten us?  What is the story of Columbus and the egg?


One day, after returning from his voyages, Columbus was sitting at the
dinner table with some important personages.  One of them was deriding
the importance of the admiral's exploits, saying that anybody could have
done it - just sail due west.

A mite ticked off, Columbus grabbed an egg from a nearby plate, and
asked the speaker if he could make it stand up on the table.  The
speaker tried, but of course the egg rolled to its side.  Other diners
gave it a try, but none could do it.  So Columbus took the egg, cracked
the shell slightly at the wide end, and stood it up on the table.

"Oh, I could have done that!", said the first speaker.
"So, why didn't you ?", asked Columbus.

--
Antonio B. Leal		| IST / INESC
+351.1.310 0300		| R. Alves Redol 9, 1000 Lisboa
abl@inesc.pt		| Portugal
From: ah@dunaad.co.uk (Alan Hunter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: maddona's new book?
Date: 12 Nov 92 11:06:35 GMT
Organization: Johnson Hunter Limited

In article <1992Nov10.204931.686@ab.wvnet.edu> onda@ab.wvnet.edu writes:
>
>	can someone send me info on maddona's new book
>	i am very *curious* as to what it is about?

Madonna's Anatomy Diagrams, Desultory Onanists' Newest Accessory

-- 
Alan Hunter
Johnson Hunter Ltd
Isle of Islay, Scotland
A.Hunter@dunaad.co.uk          fax: +44-496-2336         voice: +44-496-2286
From: warkent@ltisun14.epfl.ch (Ken Warkentyne)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Torturing Politicals
Date: 10 Nov 92 11:39:47 GMT
	<WARKENT.92Nov9131714@ltisun14.epfl.ch>
	<1992Nov9.223435.17061@informix.com>
	<1992Nov9.231707.21849@wam.umd.edu>
	<JMC.92Nov9170105@SAIL.Stanford.EDU>
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne---Laboratoire de
	Teleinformatique
In-reply-to: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU's message of 9 Nov 92 22:01:05 GMT

In article <JMC.92Nov9170105@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) wrote:
> [punny cannibal poem deleted]

Would you recite that poem to someone whose mother was eaten by
cannibals?  To someone whose mother, a victim of child abuse, was
eaten by cannibals after being raped by Genghis Khan's horde and
tortured to death by the Spanish Inquisition following her escape
from Dachau?  I think not.
--
Ken Warkentyne - warkent@ltisun.epfl.ch
                 Laboratoire de Teleinformatique, EPFL, Suisse.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel)
Subject: Re: The trouble with gurus
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 18:41:37 GMT

In article <1dohkcINNoj5@morrow.stanford.edu>, francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes...

> Their name is Legion, of course, but my
>candidate for Most Pompous Ass among the self-appointed gurus would be
>Joseph Campbell.
> 
>						Fido

Oh, I second the motion on Campbell.  To me he was sort of the Edward
Teller of his field.  And his interviews with Bill Moyers did nothing
to clean up his image, though Moyers drooled over him until they both
had to go change.

Ron
From: warkent@ltisun14.epfl.ch (Ken Warkentyne)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Boris Vian
Date: 10 Nov 92 10:52:00 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne---Laboratoire de
	Teleinformatique
In-reply-to: amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI's message of 9 Nov 92 19:28:22 GMT

Marko Amnell quotes Boris Vian:
> LA VIE C'EST COMME UNE DENT
> 
> La vie, c'est comme une dent
> [eventuellement, ca fait mal et on vous l'arrache]

So does old Boris have anything to say about what might serve
as life's dental-floss?
--
Ken Warkentyne - warkent@ltisun.epfl.ch
                 Laboratoire de Teleinformatique, EPFL, Suisse.
From: amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Those Sexy Finns (was: Advice to the World Weary)
Date: 6 Nov 92 11:26:57 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <6NOV92.00524853@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:

>I visited Finland once, and my fondest memories are of Finnish men.  Sexy
>devils they were.  Robust.  Perhaps it comes from eating things like
>silakkapihvit, kalakukko and lanttulaatikko, not to mention hernekeitto every
>Tuesday (or is it Thursday?).  Or perhaps it comes from centuries of
>practice, through the long dark winter when there were no VCRs, and amusement
>was had either by smiting your enemy with your axe so his eyeteeth rattled on
>the ice, or by being inventive with your mate.  Markku was a foxy Finn, dark
>like a medieval woodcut, with eyes that turned up at the ends.  He showed me
>the best uses of a sauna.  He wouldn't agree to teach me Finnish, though.  I
>really wanted to learn Finnish, but whenever I mentioned this to people over
>there, they would nod and then change the subject.  The Finns are very
>polite, in the same way that the Scots are: they never want to say anything
>that will directly disappoint you, so they change the subject.

Ah, yes, the real Finns?  The peasantry.  What are they?  Humble,
honest, hardworking, bad self-esteem, and they drink too much.  I fail
on all counts, not to mention my nationality and roots.  As Tom Maddox
and a few others might guess, my snobbery doesn't go over very well
here.  Maybe it's that fact I keep saying "I was taught not to eat with
the help".  Thank God this is the last plutocracy in Europe.

-- 
Marko Amnell
amnell@klaava.helsinki.fi
Graduate Student in Philosophy
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books