HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hberg@polisci.umn.edu (Bob Hammarberg)
Subject: Re: Finne and finl{ndare (Re: Where is Norway?)
Organization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:58:05 GMT

Back in the days when I was a Finlandssvensk, I would refer to those who 
spoke my language simply as 'svenskar' (Swedes)
and to the speakers of the other language as 'finnar' (Finns).  Swedes from 
Sweden were 'rikssvenskar' (then, of course there were }l{nningar, but that's
a different story).

  When a foreigner referred to me as 'finne'it would strike me 
as just plain wrong. It's like referring to a Canadian as an 
American; after all he lives in (North) America.

As for why 'finne' is avoided in the Swedish press, well there was a time 
when 'En finne igen!' was a common headline on the crime pages of the 
Stockholm papers.  Under such circumstances, who wanted to be known as a 
'finne'?  It's much like what happened, here in the US, to ethnic 
appellations such as Chinaman and Negro.  Look at it his way: the Swedish 
(rikssvensk) press is just trying to be polite!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: Immigrants and employment
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 05:35:29 GMT

The huge unemployment rates is in Finland are due to the lack of employers
who had money to pay the salaries demanded. 
The rise of unemployment in Sweden is as well seen already and the
next Nordic unemployment catastrophy will be there. Danamark has had
or still has her own and Finland is in the middle of the catastrophy.

The Nordic welfare concept has worked so far well when the flow 
of tax-payers money has been costantly rising and steady but when
it is decreasing we see what it is all about. NOw Finland takes
annually 60 billions FIM loan from abroad in order to keep
the welfare level  normal. In a situation like this those who say the
society has to do this and that do not understand the whole thing
very well. 

Those who are demanding more jobs , should demand more employers
and when there is not enough, one should ask
why there is not. 

>
In Nordic countres there  has been a kind of semi-socialism since a long time,
thanks to a good export businesses which have earned money for these
countries (Paper&pulp&metal) so that it has been possible to enlargen different
social servicies all the time. After this kind of circumstances many seem
to believe in these countries , I suppose, that there is just a big
vallet somewhere the money comes automatically.
 "The society has to pay it, the society has to do
that and that, the state does not do this and this,the state
 does not pay my teeth,the state does not take my children to the kindergarden,

 the state does not help" 
This is a general voice in Finland, how about the other Nordic countries?

Jarmo


>
>What you are looking for is an insurance policy, where the contributors
>are willing to pay the expenses of the unfortunate few, in return for
>the same safety being provided to them.  When there is nobody around to
>implement these insurance policies (perhaps because they are outlawed
>by the government), you can bet that problems will arise.
>
>This issue is not very specific to the Nordic countries, other than us
>being often referred to as examples in either a negative or a positive
>sense, depending on the speaker's opinion.  Besides, it must be one of
>the most protracted debates of the history of human civilization. ;-)
>
>As for immigration, I think two more hands to do labour in general
>even out one more mouth to feed.  Who came up with the silly idea
>of putting restrictions on where people could go, to begin with?
>--

The immigration policy is one of the most ridiculous things in Nordic
countries. Thanks that there are still some fool taxpayers it works.

jarmo ryyti




Anders Andersson, Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University
>Paper Mail: Box 520, S-751 20 UPPSALA, Sweden
>Phone: +46 18 183170   EMail: andersa@DoCS.UU.SE


Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Business (was Re: Immigrants and employment)
Date: 20 Aug 92 11:28:30 GMT
Reply-To: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Organization: SINTEF, Norwegian Institute of Technology

In article <1992Aug20.105121.6874@kth.se>, petrus@stacken.kth.se (Lars Petrus) writes:
|> 
|>    In the days of the cold war, that a country was "anti-communist"
|> meant little more than that the local Mussolini had sold his country
|> to Uncle Sam - just as it being socialist meant no more than that
|> Uncle Ivan was the highest bidder.
|> 
|>    If you look at these countries seriously, they are classic
|> command-and-control style economies, wiht huge and corrupt state
|> enterprises controling large parts of the economy. Normally you can
|> not start any kind of company without a government licence (and the
|> man issuing the licence wants a bribe), both import and export is
|> heavily regulated etc etc.
|> 
|>    It should be clear to everyone that pointing to these countries
|> failures can not be used as an argument aginst free markets - since
|> they do not have free markets! Yet this point is constantly made.
|> In a similar manner the huge starvation catastrophes in socialistic
|> countries in Africa is often used as an argument against the evil
|> capitalism! Pretty amazing!
|> 


I see you partly understand my point, but only one-sided. My point is
that you can't judge a system after what it claims to be, but after
what it really is.

You can't say that democracy is evil just because some jerk in South
America says that his dictatorship is democratic.

You can't say that socialism is evil just because the Soviet "communist"
party say they are socialists/communists. Very much of the Soviet
system hadn't even the slightest in common with socialism, as it is
"defined". (Not the USA "definition" !)

I'm sorry, but there is no other way to find out than to try to think
and discuss in a fair manner. :-)

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jan Arne Fagertun, Research Engineer, SINTEF Division Thermodynamics|
| E-mail: Jan.A.Fagertun@termo.unit.no                                |
| Phone : +47 7 596890                            Fax  : +47 7 944513 |
| Mail  : SINTEF/Varmeteknikk, 7034 Trondheim, Norway                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: nilo@atdigarfield.cern.ch (Nilo Segura)
Subject: Re: Ref: Himnos nacionales
Reply-To: nilo@atdigarfield.cern.ch
Organization: CERN. European Center for Nuclear Research
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 05:54:03 GMT

De todas formas, con letra o sin letra, la musica no es muy buena ( en mi opinion ), me gustan mas otros himnos v.g aleman, ex-URSS & UK. Todo es una cuestion de gustos claro. ( o a
lo mejor de tanto oirlos en las Olimpiadas... )

saludos.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.spain
From: puerta@mcs-next-10.stanford.edu (Angel Puerta)
Subject: Re: Basque Bastards
Reply-To: puerta@camis.stanford.edu
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 21:33:35 GMT



I think this should be obvious but...when I said Basque Bastards, I referred to  
the terrorists themselves, not to every Basque.

--
Angel Puerta
puerta@camis.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.spain
From: pjm@SPEECH.CS.CMU.EDU (Pedro J. Moreno)
Subject: VISTO EN soc.culture.portuguese
Reply-To: pjm@stevens.SPEECH.CS.CMU.EDU (Pedro J. Moreno)
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:33:25 GMT


Del grupo soc.culture.portuguese

##A pedido de va'rias fami'lias, e porque esta informacao ainda nao foi
##enviada para aqui, salvo erro, ca' tem os (maus) resultados do Ho'quei:
##
##MEDALHA DE OURO:
##
##Argentina, 9 - Espanha, 8
##
##MEDALHA DE BRONZE
##
##Ita'lia,3 -Portugal, 2
####
##So' nos resta o "consolo" dos nuestros hermanos nao terem ganho o  
##ouro!!!!

O sea, que como Portugal no consigue l medalla de bronce, por lo menos
se alegran de que Espa#a no consigue la de oro!!!

Je je, es curioso, no se si habeis leido alguna vez el grupo portugues,  
pero de vez en cuando (cada dos meses o asi) salen con la historia de que  
Espa#a es la causa de sus males, parece que nos tiene un cierto "odio"...

Y la situacion no es reciproca....mas bien al contrario, en Espa#a se  
ignora todo sobre Portugal.

Yo siempre me quedo sorprendido con los problemas que los portugueses nos  
achacan a los espa#oles......son de lo mas curiosos.....

Algun comentario????


--
Pedro J. Moreno			(NeXTMail yes!!)
Graduate Student
Electrical and Computer Engineering
Speech Group
pjm@stevens.speech.cs.cmu.edu 
Carnegie Mellon University
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Friday, 14 Aug 1992 01:38:55 EDT
From: <A89QC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.spain
Subject: TT

test1;test2
Newsgroups: soc.culture.spain
From: palou@osnome.che.wisc.edu (Ignasi Palou-Rivera)
Subject: Re: AHORA QUE LAS LLAMAS SE HAN CALMADO UN POCO
Organization: University of Wisconsin-Madison, Chemical Engineering
Date: 14 Aug 92 09:43:06
	<1992Aug12.132816.224072@cs.cmu.edu> <2184@h.cs.wvu.wvnet.edu>
	<1992Aug12.182231.14103@unixg.ubc.ca>
	<1992Aug12.230733.20251@athena.mit.edu>
	<Aug.13.11.41.58.1992.20505@ruhets.rutgers.edu>
In-reply-to: juana@ruhets.rutgers.edu's message of 13 Aug 92 15:41:59 GMT

Uno se acuerda de la proclamacion que hizo el President de la
Generalitat de Catalunya Francesc Macia durante la II Republica:
"Republica Catalana dintre de la Confederacio Iberica".

Ignasi.
--
Ignasi Palou-Rivera		palou@osnome.che.wisc.edu
Dept. of Chemical Engineering, U. of Wisconsin, Madison.
From: cpg@cs.utexas.edu (Carlos M. Puchol)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.spain
Subject: Re: Resultados de Barcelona: 10.08 and after
Date: 14 Aug 1992 10:41:03 -0500
Organization: Department of Computer Sciences, UT Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: trurl.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Aug14.022026.4893@u.washington.edu> melgosa@milton.u.washington.edu (Mercedes Perez-Melgosa) writes:
...
!	The first repercussions of the spending spree can already be
!seen. The Spanish economy is expected to grow less than 2% this year,
!down from 2.4% last year. It is a painful slowdown for Spain, which got
!used to 5% growth during the late 1980s.
...

Some other repercussions can also be seen in the graduate research
scholarships for Spain and outside, that have been dramatically cut. That's
a great way to spend the money, yes ... The F**king Olympic Games among
other things are taking money away from the Universities and the yet weak
research programs. Let's hope that in a few years they turn this around
to face Europe. Just some random thoughts. (But we have the GOLD in soccer,
waaaoow! What a great Olympic Games).

Cheers,

=:) Carlos

-- Carlos Puchol
-- cpg@cs.utexas.edu           CS Department, The University of Texas at Austin
-- 
-- Carlos Puchol
-- cpg@cs.utexas.edu		CS Department, UT Austin
From: mixt@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Sam Bratton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.spain
Subject: Informacion sobre RENFE (o viajando en Andalucia)
Date: 21 Aug 92 03:28:25 GMT
Distribution: soc.culture.spain
Organization: Applied Research Laboratories, University of Texas at Austin.

Hola Todo El Mundo,

  Soy estadounidense y voy a Sevilla el 5 de Octubre (EXPO). Voy a
llegar en Ma'laga, pero desde alli no tengo transportacio'n para
Sevilla.

Si no me equivoco, hay trenes de Ma'laga a Sevilla dos o tres veces
al dia.  Lo que quiero averiguar es si 1) Es necesario tener
reservacio'n en este li'nea? 2) Va ser deficil coger un tren de
Ma'laga - Sevilla sin reservacio'n? 3) Aproximadamente cuanto vale el
boleto di ida y vuelta, y 4) Hay mejor moda de transportacio'n
(autobus por ejemplo) para una persona en mi situacion: sin
reservacio'n (tampoco mucho dinero) y que debe llegar a Sevilla
el mismo dia?

Lo agradeceri'a si alguien me podria contestar por email (correo
electronico??).

Gracias,
Samuel Bratton

p.d. Alguin sabe si RENFE tiene un numero de tele'fono u otro punto
de contacto en los Estados Unidos?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.spain
From: domino@uni-paderborn.de (Mattias Krause)
Subject: Universidad De Zaragoza
Summary: Who knows the IP adress of the University of Zaragoza?
Keywords: Zaragoza
Organization: Uni-GH Paderborn
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:30:07 GMT

Hi,

who can tell me the Internet adress of the University of Zaragoza?

Please send to:

domino@uni-paderborn.de
Matthias Krause
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Friday, 14 Aug 1992 01:35:44 EDT
From: <A89QC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.spain
Subject: TT

test1;test2;
From: mvinuela@CC.GETTYSBURG.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.culture.spain
Subject: Cataluna y Espana en el corazon
Date: 18 Aug 1992 11:34:49 -0700
Organization: ESPANA-L - soc.culture.spain Gateway
Distribution: world
Reply-To: mvinuela@CC.GETTYSBURG.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: chaph.usc.edu
Originator: mvinuela@CC.GETTYSBURG.EDU 
Warning: Please, don't reply to me (torne@usc.edu)
	I'm not the original sender. Use the address in the Reply-To field.
Comments: Message-Id was <9208181834.AA13167@usc.edu> 
Comments: Gateway JFT


En "El Pais" del 1  de agosto aparecio un articulo de Xavier Vidal-Folch
titulado "Cataluna y Espana en el corazon". Si no ha sido incluido en la
edicion internacional y hay interes por leerlo, podria enviarlo a la la
lista.
Miguel Vinuela
Gettysburg College                Internet: mvinuela@cc.gettysburg.edu
Spanish Department                Telephone: (717) 337-6861
Box 411
Gettysburg, PA 17325
From: RUBEN GARCIA-DIAZ <DRGARCIA%SUVM.BITNET@VM.usc.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.spain
Subject: Ref: Seeking good spanish self-instruction references
Date: 12 Aug 1992 23:28:52 -0700
Organization: ESPANA-L - soc.culture.spain Gateway
Distribution: world
Reply-To: RUBEN GARCIA-DIAZ <DRGARCIA%SUVM.BITNET@VM.usc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: chaph.usc.edu
Originator: RUBEN GARCIA-DIAZ <DRGARCIA%SUVM.BITNET@VM.usc.edu> 
Warning: Please, don't reply to me (torne@usc.edu)
	I'm not the original sender. Use the address in the Reply-To field.
Comments: Message-Id was <9208130628.AA09027@usc.edu> 
Comments: Gateway JFT


To Clay, the guy who wants to learn spanish.
I have read a post in which its author comments about Spanish dictionaries.
I would like to add some information about it.
The Collins SPANISH/ENGLISH dictionary is quite good. It is easy to read.
Nevertheless I personally have found more interesting and with better
explanations, specially to idiomatic problems, the LAROUSSE dictionary.
Any Comments, list???
See you all soon.
Ruben.


RUBEN GARCIA-DIAZ.SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY.NEWHOUSE SCHOOL GRAD.MAIL BOX 175.
262 ROBERT DRIVE. SYRACUSE. N.Y. 13210 USA. PH. 315-4230920
E-MAIL: DRGARCIA@SUVM (BITNET)
    OR
        DRGARCIA@SUVM.ACS.SYR.EDU (INTERNET)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.spain
From: darkone@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Michael E Kumbera)
Subject: Catala -> English help needed
Originator: darkone@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 02:07:55 GMT

A friend of mine decided to put a sentence of Catalan in a letter she sent
to me. I was woundering if anyone on the net would like to translate it
for me. She states in her letter:

I think this defines you: ETS EL MILLOR!

Any ideas what she means would be a great help!

Also I would like to find someone willing to help me translate from time to
time without bothering the net.

thanks,

Mike Kumbera
-- 
	   darkone@csd4.csd.uwm.edu 
	   Mike @ (414) 229-6215 (work)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.spain
From: mj1078@taurus.cse.kyutech.ac.jp (mmanuel pece)
Subject: Re: Franco on TV tonight
Organization: Kyushu Institute of Tech., Iizuka, JAPAN.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 12:13:03 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.022403.21155@cs.mun.ca> lazaro@garfield.cs.mun.ca (Lazaro Nunez) writes:

>Anyway, there was a movie about Franco whose title I'm trying to remember
>so I could recommend it to a friend of mine, but there is no way for it
>to pop up into my head.
>In the movie a guy was kidnapped and was forced to learn all of Franco's
>mannerisms, including his way of talking; and thus when that was 
>achieved he replaced Franco in all public ceremonies. It was a well done
>satire and I really enjoyed it. The only actress I recognized in the
>movie is the wife of the fake Franco that was played by the Jehova's
>witness caretaker (encargada) in Almodovar's "Mujeres al borde de un ataque
>de nervios".
>Could somebody tell me either the title of the movie, the name of the director
>or the actor who played both Francos? 


I think that the title is ESPERAME EN EL CIELO ("Wait me in heaven").
I don't remember the name of the director. 
The actor is not from Spain but from Argentina.
The wife is, as you say, Chus Lampreave.

Manuel@Japan
From: slwsg@cc.usu.edu (Enrique Playan Jubillar. Utah State University)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.spain
Subject: Re: Catala -> English help needed
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:48:58 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Aug19.020755.23445@uwm.edu>, darkone@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Michael E Kumbera) writes:
> A friend of mine decided to put a sentence of Catalan in a letter she sent
> to me. I was woundering if anyone on the net would like to translate it
> for me. She states in her letter:
> 
> I think this defines you: ETS EL MILLOR!
                            you are the best!

greetings
enrique

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Enrique Playan Jubillar. P. O. Box 1277. Logan, UT 84322. USA
      Biological and Irrigation Engineering Dept. Utah State University
             IN%"slwsg@cc.usu.edu". Viva Monzon y viva la RENFE!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: slwsg@cc.usu.edu (Enrique Playan Jubillar. Utah State University)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.spain
Subject: Accidente en la A7
Date: 21 Aug 92 16:28:37 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

X-NEWS: cc.usu.edu soc.culture.french: 13248

DIRECTION DE LA PRESSE DE L'INFORMATION ET DE LA 
COMMUNICATION ET LE MINISTERE DES AFFAIRES 
ETRANGERES. BULLETIN TRANSMIS PAR LE SERVICE DE 
PRESSE ET LA MISSION SCIENTIFIQUE DE L'AMBASSADE DE 
FRANCE A WASHINGTON. SELECTION QUOTIDIENNE AFP DU 
20 AOUT 1992
=======

- 45 MORTS, 11 BLESSES, DANS UN ACCIDENT D'AUTOBUS EN 
ESPAGNE. Le drame s'est produit hier soir sur l'autoroute A7, pres de 
Castellon de la Plana, a environ 70 km de Valence. Les victimes sont 
toutes de nationalite espagnole.

+ La plupart des passagers, parmi lesquels se trouvaient plusieurs 
enfants, etaient originaires de la banlieue de Barcelone, et participaient a 
un voyage organise a Seville pour visiter l'Exposition universelle.

+ Pour une raison encore inconnue, le car a quitte la route dans une 
courbe et s'est retourne sur un terre-plein en contrebas. La plupart des 
victimes ont ete tuees par l'enfoncement du toit.

+ Cet accident d'autobus est le plus meurtrier depuis quinze ans en 
Espagne apres celui survenu en 1979 pres de Zamora qui avait fait 48 
morts.
--

Para los que no controleis frances, un accidente en un autobus que iba a la
expo, en el que han muerto 45 personas de la zona de Barcelona.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Enrique Playan Jubillar. P. O. Box 1277. Logan, UT 84322. USA
      Biological and Irrigation Engineering Dept. Utah State University
             IN%"slwsg@cc.usu.edu". Viva Monzon y viva la RENFE!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.spain
From: burgos@athena.mit.edu (morrosko)
Subject: Re: AHORA QUE LAS LLAMAS SE HAN CALMADO UN POCO
Keywords: los buenos
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 22:01:40 GMT

 juana@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Juana Moreno)  writes,

> Creo que desde la discusion que hubo con ellos se ha producido una secesion
>electronica y ya no leen este grupo. La lista catalana sigue bastante activa
>a pesar del verano. Es una pena, pues creo que este grupo ha perdido bastante
>desde entonces. Ahora encuentro la lista catalana mas interesante que este
>grupo.

muestra eso que "they don't care about spain but we do care about Catalonia??"


>Creo que esta clarisimo que los juegos han sido un exito, no he oido a nadie
>que diga lo contrario. Hay que reconocer que los catalanes se han organizado
>bastante mejor que los andaluces, pues aunque la Expo parece que no va mal
>ahora, el incendio del pabellon principal fue imperdonable. Lo que no se es
>si tambien ha sido un exito financiero. Sabe alguien como andan las cuentas
>de los actos del 92? Podriamos intentar recopilar informacion en una tabla
>como esta para comparar:

>etc...

:-)  y sabremos cua e el aujero ma jondo....


> Quiza deberiamos cambiar el nombre del Estado y llamarlo "Reino Unido de
>la Gran Iberia". ( A mi me suena fatal, pero quiza solo es falta de costumbre)

:-)

> Quiza el resto de los ibericos no portugueses se sentirian mas a gusto con
>un nombre asi. Espan~a podria denominar a las regiones hispanohablantes solo.
>No he oido a nadie proponer un cambio de nombre asi pero asi en abstracto me
>parece mas equitativo. Supongo que los catalanes aunque no se sientan muy
>espan~oles si se sienten ibericos. Lo unico malo podria ser que Galicia se
>convirtiera en una especie de Irlanda del Norte.

>Bueno, creo que mi comentario al menos no es salvaje. Quiza sea cierto que
>los estados monarquicos son mas estables que los republicanos aunque el caso
>de Francia, Estados Unidos o Alemania no lo muestra. Quiza estos estados son
>mas homogeneos o han sido forzados a ser mas homogeneos. Pero quiza los estados
>con gran diversidad que se mantienen unidos es gracias a que muestran
>tolerancia, aprecio mutuo e intereses comunes entre los distintos pueblos
> que los forman. Veamos que pasa con Canada. Quiza nos muestre que incluso en
>la mejor de las situaciones el nacionalismo tira mas fuerte que cualquier otra
>idea.


Good point




				Joaquin
Newsgroups: soc.culture.spain
From: puerta@mcs-next-10.stanford.edu (Angel Puerta)
Subject: Futbol Espa#ol
Reply-To: puerta@camis.stanford.edu
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 22:03:37 GMT



Aunque disfrute contestando los 'postings' de los polacos que todavia andan  
llorando y buscandos excusas por la derrota ante Espa#a en la final olimpica,  
ahora me esta entrando el serio temor de que de alguna manera, Michel,  
Butrague#o y demas joyas de la seleccion nacional tengan acceso al correo  
electronico y hayan leido mis postings. Seria terrible. Imaginense a la "Ni#a  
de Oro" y al Michel pensado que despues de todo si hay un Espa#ol que opina que  
a ellos les ha ido muy bien con la seleccion. Esto pudiera condenarnos a otros  
8 a#os mas con "Las Trillizas" y su corte. Una verdadera catastrofe. Por lo  
tanto, me declaro mentalmente incompetente cuando escribi esos articulos.

Y claro, que exageracion decir que un club Espa#ol ganaria la liga Polaca 75  
a#os consecutivos!.

Vamos, que de 25 no pasa....

--
Angel Puerta
puerta@camis.stanford.edu