HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.climbing

In rec.climbing, dyes@convex.com (Tim Dyes) writes:

> I'll be climbing in RMNP in just two weeks.  Anyone been on the following
> routes?

That's kind of late, but good luck with the weather.

> 3) Longs, Cable route - we'll be using this for descent, are the
> eyebolts easy to find? how close to East face?

Very easy to find as long as they aren't covered with snow.  Last Monday or
Tuesday Longs got snow.  The technical difficulties on the Cable route are
very short and not very technical.  I downclimbed the second rap without a
rope in a near whiteout last August.  It's maybe 5.2.

> Can water or snow be found at the Boulder Field? (we'll be camping there
> one night) and will iodine tabs provide sufficient protection there and
> in the backcountry?

Yes, water can be found.  We used a water filter.  As long as whatever you
use handles Giardia...
 
> Thanks for any info!

Your welcome,
Mort
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Chalking Up (was: grease)
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:17:37 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

In article <1992Aug31.011430.26837@news.mentorg.com> billw@sjc.mentorg.com
writes:
>An admirable stance that I somewhat agree with.  Yes, don't use chalk but
>you can still climb it.  Albeit with a different style.
>
>|(the second pitch of the last
>|climb two weekends ago, a second on the party above asked if I had any chalk,
>|> Gawd, it was a mere 5.7 [trying new shoes], I could see chalk maybe for
>|> 10s and higher, but not 7s.
>This is simple assinine.  Why limit the 5.7 climbers?  Better climbers
>sometimes have this elitist attitude that they can change the rules since
>they are better than most people.  Bullshit!  Everyone gets to use the same
>rules.  What's so special about 5.10?  I climb 5.10 without chalk and I'm
>certainly no great climber.

You're right!  I mean Wright.
We can have the traditional chalk argument!  "I'd like to have the chalk
argument please."  "A sample of one or the course of five?..."

>Chalk doesn't make impossible climbs possible.
>I assume the 5.10 rating was chosen in this case because it is 
>difficult for Eugene.  It this valid?  What is 5.7 is difficult for Gomer?
>Is this the Eugene rule for chalk usage?  A lot of climbers would be in
>trouble if Peter Croft made the rules.
>
>Chalk is an ego thing where people want to climb a slightly higher number.

The 10 was an arbitrary figure.  I could have said the arbitrary "hard climb"
ala Ilana's earlier repeated ratings post.
You convinced me.
Okay, ban chalk.

>The cost is ugly chalk all over the rock marking the route.  I won't propose
>the thought of banning chalk because there is NO WAY this is going to happen.
>I am not militant about this chalk issue.  All my partners climb with chalk.
>I accept it as a necessary evil of climbing.  But come on, it is completely
>ridiculous to ban chalk on the easier climbs.

I fail to see that it is a necessary evil.  It's a choice.

>Feeling fiesty today...
>                  "When in doubt, run it out!"

Watch out!  Need a nice cold shower. 8^)

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: billw@ace.mentorg.com (Bill Wright)
Subject: RE: Grease
Originator: billw@ace
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1992 17:40:13 GMT
Reply-To: billw@sjc.mentorg.com
Organization: Mentor Graphics 
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 


In article <21459@optima.cs.arizona.edu>, sarah@cs.arizona.edu (Sarah M. Officer) writes:
|> Some German friends of mine told me about a route in the northern
|> alps (southern Bavaria) where climbing with chalk is mandatory.  I
|> forget the name of this popular route, but I believe it is on 
|> limestone.  There is a traverse around a corner with a handrail
|> where generations of sweaty palms have reacted with the limestone
|> to polish it smooth.  I'm fuzzy with my chemistry, but I believe 
|> that chalk is basic and palm sweat is acidic, and climbers have 
|> been asked to use chalk to neutralize their palm sweat and reduce
|> further impact to this route!

I'm sure it was awfully tough to convince the climbers to put up with
this!  But knowing how environmental climbers are (especially in Europe),
I am sure they succumbed to this awful restriction. :-)
-- 
             Bill Wright / bill_wright@mentorg.com

                  "When in doubt, run it out!"
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Climbing Rack?
Keywords: Climbing Rack
Date: 29 Aug 92 00:41:05 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

In article <1992Aug28.224831.4783@guinness.idbsu.edu>
jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu writes:
>Hmm, the obvious just occured to me ( a very rare and cherished thing)
>When a tri-cam gets 'old', ie, the WEBBING on a tri-cam gets old,
>then, what do you do? Can you have the webbing replaced?  Anyone know?

Yes.
THEY are generally pretty good about replacing climbing gear components.
Just took a #1 Friend back to REI.  One of the springs broke.  Wild Country
just gave me a new #1.  Had problems with a set of Merrill shoes (had
only 12 miles on them, wore thru around 7-8 miles): REI made the decision
on the spot to give me a new pair (or old money to a different boot).

What I don't like is the lack of components so that you can replace some
of this stuff out in the field.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: leathley@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Scott Leathley)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: How strong do you have to be?
Date: 1 Sep 92 16:18:24 GMT
Organization: Boeing

In article <0095FF20.B8C8EE20@Msu.oscs.montana.edu> uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.223908.7157@access.usask.ca>, choy@skorpio.usask.ca writes:
>>How strong do you have to be to climb a cliff? Do you have to support
>>yourself a lot with your arms?
>
>It depends on a lot of factors; how steep the "cliff" is, whether you're.....

Another consideration is technical skills.  Proper technique will out
perform strength everytime, atleast until you hit the upper grades.  This
is why, in general, women make better technical climbers than men, especially
as beginners.  Men tend to muscle their way through problems while women
work out the moves.  Also, proper technique uses the strength and stamina of
leg muscles which are much better equipped for the cliffs than their upper
body counterparts.  A good judge of whether you are using good technique or
not is whether your upper body or legs are sorrest (lactic acid) after a day
of climbing.  In general, don't worry about strength, focus on the technique
and the strength will take care of itself over time.

Scott

-- 
       !!! IGNORING WHAT I SAY IS THE RULE, NOT THE EXCEPTION !!!
Scott Leathley      \\ leathley@bcstec.boeing.com // "Climbing may be hard,
Boeing D&SG 7-6766   \\   uunet!bcstec!leathley  //   but it's easier than
M/S 9F-36  657-8311   \\\\\\\  ###         ///////    growing up."
From: sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Offwidths
Date: 3 Sep 92 08:40:13 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

Greg Hill writes:

"anyway, offwidth technique more than anything else in climbing probably does
not ever deserve having words like "true" and "pure" associated with it ... for
me, at least, it is generally a mish mash of every technique that exists,
simultaneously, plus a small selection of body positions that simply cannot be
described as "technique", and definitely do not get described in guidebooks."

There is a climb somewhere in the peak district, UK, probably at curbar if I
remember and possibly called Goliath or similar (It's been a long time!).
A 30' gritstone ugly of which the guide says "the energy expended on this climb
is usually enough to light Sheffield for a week. The difficulties depend on
how well you can swim"

Now that's offwidth technique!

Has anyone worked out how to appraise an offwidth and decide exactly which
bits to tape? For example, on comfortably numb at J-tree I prudently taped
my elbows as well as my hands, but could have done with some on my chin too!
I guess the problem is, if you tape too much and really screw it up, when
you arrive at the hospital they will assume that you've already been treated :-)

While on offwidths, anyone done 'the big baby' at Indian Creek? I'm tempted
but need some guidelines about how much pro/what sizes are really needed.

Bob the Alien.
From: imkg2726@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Ilana M. Kingsley)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Climbing near or in Illinois
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:50:59 GMT
Distribution: il
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

I'm looking to do some decent top roping in or near Illinois-- is there any?
I've heard of some place in Wisconsin (Devil's something or other), can 
someone tell me its proper name.  I've also been told about Starved Rock (from
a non-climber) is this area good (if so, where is it?)

--Ilana Kingsley
imkg2726@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
     
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Subject: Re: Climbing near or in Illinois
Reply-To: uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University
Distribution: il
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 08:30:47 GMT

In article <Btnwp1.1D6@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, imkg2726@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Ilana M. Kingsley) writes:
>I'm looking to do some decent top roping in or near Illinois-- is there any?
>I've heard of some place in Wisconsin (Devil's something or other), 

That would be Devil's Lake, but you can call it Devil's something or other.
Good area, but too humid in the summer -- rumor is that John Gill was the first
climber to use chalk (!), due to the humidity @ DL.  Watch out for the DLFA;
The Devil's Lack Fuckedness Association!

Also, check out Garden of the Gods, near Carbondale (no, not the one in C. 
Springs.), and Mississippi Palisades.  Minnesota has some stuff, too.

Have Fun.      
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Cathedral Pk. Accident, Yosemite
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 18:41:31 GMT

In article <Sep.1.11.50.34.1992.21715@gandalf.rutgers.edu>,
parilis@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Gary Parilis) writes:
>
>My harness is a Black Diamond Bod Harness...  It has a loop in back
>that seems pretty sturdy, but I've never trusted it as an anchor point.
>
>Is that its purpose?  I've always used it for gear and wondered if it
>was meant to be an anchor point...  Is it?

Some older harnesses used to have a very solid looking loop in the
back that was clearly for anchoring.  The present batch including my
BD look pretty wimpy for that.  Keeping in mind that a lot of the
harnesses these days have loops that are just meant for chalk bags,
I think it is better not use them for anchoring unless a) the
manufacturer expressly says so, and b) you are personally convinced!

In any event, I wouldn't use even the strongest of these loops as
single point of attachment.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Joining Ropes
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 23:35:21 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Aug28.200319.3627@morrow.stanford.edu>
AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
	Simultaneous second belays

>I've heard of this technique only once before.  It was mentioned by
>a Austrian who had moved to Lake Tahoe and was running his own guide
>service.  He used it so he could belay two clients at once,
>generally on easier ground.  I've never tried it myself and whenever
>I mention it the response is usually a raised eyebrow or two.
>Still, it sounds reasonable if you have good rope handling skills.

Especially useful for friction slab or ice climbing.  Things where the
climbing is consistent.  Learned this from the English.  Always, practice
on easier ground first (unless you are really good).

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Rope decay
Date: 4 Sep 92 11:09:04 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

Does anyone have any good idea if a rope which is kept in a cool, dry,
dark place will weaken over the course of, say, a year?

-- 

-Jeremy Henderson            |  Une souris verte
 egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk	     |  Qui courrait dans l'herbe
--More--(2%)
From: bell@laplace (George Bell)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Worst belays
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:16:58 GMT
Followup-To: bell@advtech.uswest.com
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

In article <1992Aug31.142011.8216@odin.corp.sgi.com> bruceb@roadrunner.denver.sgi.com (Bruce Bailey) writes:

>1) What is the worst belay anchor you've ever encountered (must be ON-ROUTE)?

    It's hard to beat Galen Rowell's experience in one of his first published
writings "Storming a Myth" (in some compilation, I'm not sure which).
On one of the early ascents of the Nose, Rowell finds himself leading
the last pitch at sunset in a snowstorm.  At the normal walk-off point,
the climbing's not over because ahead is a 30 degree slab covered with snow.
After aiding up the slab Rowell finds himself in the classic position
of being out of rope twenty feet from a sturdy tree.  Stretching against
the belay rope, he manages to get both hands on not the big tree, but
a tiny sapling, only three feet tall and an inch in diameter!  Calling
"off belay", his parter begins jumaring(!!!) on the "fixed" rope, as Rowell's
hands grow numb and the sapling quivers.  I just re-read this passage and
it's even more gripping than I can do justice to.  I heartily recommend this
article to any aspiring big wall climbers.

>2) What is the most uncomfortable belay "stance" you've ever encountered?

    Pitch 18 (or thereabouts) on the Salathe Wall.  A reasonable ledge
but poorly decorated.  The party above us had spent the night in a
portaledge (why, I have no idea) in the vicinity of the Ear.  One
member had bad diarrhea over the night, and, ... well, you get the picture.
Keeping the ropes clean, and choking the impulse to vomit whenever
the wind shifted, made the belay stance unforgettable.  Too bad we
never caught up with those guys ...

                                  George Bell
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek)
Subject: Re: Leading on 9mm?
Organization: Good place for a disclaimer
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:00:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.071849.28499@news.uit.no> paale@stud.cs.uit.no (Paal Ellingsen) writes:
>My question is: is it safe to lead on a single 9mm, as long as you don't get any
>long runouts? Accoording to the technical spesifications, a good 9mm can take
>more UIAA-falls than my old 10.5mm, but are there any good arguments against
>using a 9mm for leading?

Most 9mm have thinner sheaths and will wear faster, and presumably might
be less immune to cutting.  However, the 9mm ropes are tested with
55kg of weight, while single ropes with 80kg.  The answer to your
question probably depends on which weight you are closer to.

Another option is to double the single rope for the first half of the
climb, and then to untie one end, and use it as a single the rest of the
way.  Presumably the fall factor will be low up there.  I have never set
out to do this, but untying the knot in the middle of a 5.8 hand
traverse remains one of my fonder climbing memories.

The best option is to let your partner supply the other rope.
-- 
Ed Pavelchek   ekp@mcnc.org
But I make a profit of 3 1/4 cents an egg by selling them for 4 1/4
cents an egg to the people in Malta I buy them from for 7 cents an egg.
Of course, *I* don't make the profit.          Joseph Heller, Catcha 22
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
From: vln@icpsr.umich.edu (Victoria Neff)
Subject: Re: Alum and Carageenan
Organization: Inter-University Consortium for Political and Social Research
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 20:59:39 GMT

In article <Bu2Grn.3zC@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> khare@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Kathy Hare - DCS) writes:
>In article <1992Sep4.172707.2885@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, kjs@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (kelly.smith) writes:
>> In article <97LR02ly1f2m01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>, myk30@diag.amdahl.com (Manveen Kalyanpur) writes:

>You can find alum in the grocery store in the spice rack. It is used for 
>pickling.

This is not the same alum that is used in dyeing.  I can't remember what the
names of the two substances are, but they are different.  Grocery store
alum can be used, but doesn't work as well (so I am told), and is MUCH more
expensive.


Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
From: jfsenior@unix1.tcd.ie (John Senior)
Subject: Kilns and firebricks.
X-Comment: All is vanity.
Organization: Craig Shergold Picture Postcard Corp.  
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:19:23 GMT

I am hoping to build a kiln for salt-firing.. A major obstacle that
I have come up against is the price of firebricks.  I need ~500
bricks and they cost ~1.50 each - which is too much.  I am hoping
to get some of the bricks free from an old furnace or something
similar, but I will still need some in all probability.  It occurred
to me that I could maybe make & fire some bricks myself.  So, the
question - does anyone know anything about making firebricks?
Where could I find recipes etc.?  Also if anyone knows of any
interesting (working) designs for kilns I'd love to hear from you.

Yours,

John.
--
Jfsenior@vax1.tcd.ie in case you were wondering.
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
From: saw2570@rigel.tamu.edu (WANDER, SHERYL ANN)
Subject: Crocheted Beer Can Hat
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 17:33:00 GMT

Help!  My boyfriend, for reasons unknown to me, whould like to know if
someone could please post directions as to how to make a beer can hat.
Basically, the label is cut out, holes are punched around the edges,
and pieces are crocheted together to form a hat.  I believe these
"things" were somewhat popular in the 70's.  I normally do not read this 
group, so would you please e-mail any response. Thanks in advance!
				Sheri
				SAW2570@rigel.tamu.edu
From: conib@peri.gvg.tek.com (Coni Britten)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
Subject: Re: Brass/bronze melting at home?
Date: 27 Aug 92 19:55:19 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <1992Aug27.123807.8326@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk> Alan Deacon writes:
->Having successfully made a few things out of lead and pewter I thought I'd
->go up the temperature scale a bit. Is it possible to do small scale 
->melting of things like brass or bronze at home, or should I try and find
->a `crafty' foundry in my area? I bought a hand held butane/propane torch

-> [ ... ]

->All suggestions (even `you're mad') welcome. please mail as I don't tune
->in too often to this board.

Please post as well, as I'd like to hear any and all comments, suggestions,
etc. about brass/bronze work.

Thanks ...

Coni Britten
conib@peri.gvg.tek.com
From: exujbl@exu.ericsson.se (Jerry Blackerby 214-907-7810)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
Subject: Dried Flowers
Keywords: dehydrators
Date: 2 Sep 92 12:23:43 GMT
Reply-To: exujbl@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

Does anyone know about drying flower arrangements in a dehydrator?
Can you use one or not?
I have a Waring Dehydrator and my wife would like to dry some flower arrangements
from her mother's funeral as keepsakes.

If you know how to do this, either post here or email me.

Thanks,
Jerry
==========================================================================
|| Jerry Blackerby 214-907-7810 (w) ||    Practice random kindness and  ||
|| exujbl@exu.ericsson.se           ||    senseless acts of beauty.     ||
==========================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
From: kjs@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (kelly.smith)
Subject: Re: Alum and Carageenan
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 17:27:07 GMT

In article <97LR02ly1f2m01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>, myk30@diag.amdahl.com (Manveen Kalyanpur) writes:
> I recently wanted to try out marbling but I was unable to get
> two of the main materials used for marbling - namely
> alum and carageenan (or methyl cellulose). Does anyone
> from the south bay area know where I could get these
> materials from. I have tried out all the art stores in the area.

	Hi.  I saw your post and must say I experienced the same
	thing.  Not to mention the fact the stores carry SOME of
	the things needed but not all.  Any way, I find mail order
	to be the best way to purchase chemicals like Alum, Carrageenan,
	Urea, Acetic acid and such.

	I recommend Pro Chemical & Dye Inc.  Their telephone no. is
	(508) 676-3838 and fax no. is (508) 676-3980.  They're located
	in Somerset, Mass. 02726.  I've been very sucessful in using
	their Methocel instead of Carrageenan because it only takes
	a half hour to prepare as opposed to overnight carageenan.
	Also they deliver withing three days (to me any way but I
	also live on the east coast).  The only complaint I have
	is the catalog is a bit difficult to figure out, but the
	staff is very patient.

	I also tried Dharma Trading Co. in San Rafael, California.
	Their phone no. is 1-800-542-5227 and the address is 
	P.O. Box 150916. San Rafael, Calif. 94915.  I wasn't too
	thrilled with the three week wait for my stuff, but they
	have clothes and shoes, and scarfs (or is that scarves)
	and such.  Whereas, Pro Chem. only carries the dying materials.
	
	Hope this helps and have fun.  Even though it real messy,
	the compliments are definitely worth it.
> 
> Thanks in advance.              

	No problem.

> -Manveen

	Kelly Jean
From: myk30@diag.amdahl.com (Manveen Kalyanpur)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
Subject: Alum and Carageenan
Date: 26 Aug 92 19:39:18 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale, CA

I recently wanted to try out marbling but I was unable to get
two of the main materials used for marbling - namely
alum and carageenan (or methyl cellulose). Does anyone
from the south bay area know where I could get these
materials from. I have tried out all the art stores in the area.

Thanks in advance.              
-Manveen
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc