HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sloan@cis.uab.edu (Kenneth Sloan)
Subject: Re: Speaking of breeding...
Organization: CIS, University of Alabama at Birmingham
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:35:29 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.112657.591@news.wesleyan.edu> RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg) writes:
>...
>I have an acquaintance who breeds chocolate labs.  That is, she has three
>bitches, who are all chocolate labs, and she breeds them only to other
>chocolate labs.  But the puppies she gets are not all chocolates.  In fact, she
>fairly often gets a couple of yellows in a litter.  Could someone explain this
>in terms that make sense?

I'm not an expert on chocolate Labs, but this makes sense to me. It
sounds as if "yellow" is recessive, and only appears (is expressed) if
both parents contribute the yellow gene.  The parents can both be
chocolate, because their chocolate gene dominates their recessive yellow
- but the pups that receive 2 yellow genes are yellow.

>...  If 'yellowness' is a recessive gene (? is it?)

looks that way.

>couldn't it be bred out of a line of chocolates?

yes, but it's difficult to do and harder to know that you've succeeded.
It's much easier to breed out a *dominant* gene, because you can be sure
by looking at an individual if it carries that gene, or not.  Recessive
genes can easily spread through the entire population without much
notice - because they are recessive!  Remember, being recessive doesn't
mean that it's any less likely to be passed along - just less likely to
be expressed, and noticed.

Absent a direct genetic test, you can only have indirect evidence that
you've "bred out" a recessive gene - by the failure to see that gene
expressed in any offspring.  The more "recessive gene trait free"
litters you see, the more confident you can be - but I can't think of a
way to be 100% sure.

Someone recently posted a detailed explanation of black, yellow, and
chocolate colors in Labs.  My recollection is that there are two genes,
one determinining black/yellow and the other determining
chocolate/not-chocolate.  Perhaps they'll correct any errors I've made
above...



-- 
Kenneth Sloan                   Computer and Information Sciences
sloan@cis.uab.edu               University of Alabama at Birmingham
(205) 934-2213                  115A Campbell Hall, UAB Station 
(205) 934-5473 FAX              Birmingham, AL 35294-1170
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: ALI00JEV@UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU (Judith Van Noate)
Subject: Re: Large Breeds Showing Age
Organization: UNC Charlotte
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:34:52 GMT

In article <93003.095655U58664@uicvm.uic.edu>
Francine Cannarozzi <U58664@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
 
>
>I'm just throwing this out for discussion for those netters who have
>larger breeds.  We have a Great Dane mix (with black lab or German S.H.
>Pointer, I'm not too sure).  He's 5-1/2 years old, (we adopted him at
>3-yrs old) weighs in at about 87 pounds.  When do larger dogs start to
>age?  I noticed about 6 months ago he was getting more white on his
>muzzle.  He normally has an all jet black coat with white on his chest and
>back paws. Now I am beginning to see flecks of white all over.
>I had a professional portait done last June and the difference is very
>marked, most especially around his muzzle and jaws.
>
>What prompted me to think about this is I just returned from 10 days away
>to visit my family, and Beast stayed home with my husband. When I returned
>I noticed some changes in him, they are rather subtle, but being away from
>him for a while exaggerated them to me.
>
>He's in excellent health, trim and very muscular, but I can see that he
>is slowing down. He doesn't play as long or as hard as he used to,
>and lays around more than he used to, instead of being attentive at
>a window or outside in the yard. He's also started to listen 'when he
>wants to', but that may be due to a lack of continued behavioral
>training on our part, i.e., he's pretty spoiled. :-)
>
>This is the first dog I've had, so I don't know what to expect.  I've
>heard/read/known that larger dogs don't live as long. What does that
>mean?  What is the life expectancy? 10 years or less?  Am I being
>totally paranoid?  I'd like to hear from those who have large dogs or
>similar experiences with older dogs.
>
>Thanks.
 
On the average very large dogs don't live as long as smaller ones, but
as with all dog answers, it varies with the individual.  The graying
is independent of other aging factors.  I have GS Pointers.  Some of my
youngsters are starting to gray at age 5.  One female is as gray as her
nine year old mother.  My old dobermans have hardly any graying.  Eighty-
seven pounds is not all that large compared to the average great dane.
If you are concerned about your dog you could take her to a vet who does
geriatric profiles and see what he or she recommends.  You might, for
example, be advised to put him or her on a diet for older dogs.
Best of luck with you fine older dog.
Judith
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: steveo@mobius (Steve Olson)
Subject: Longevity of GSD
Reply-To: steve_olson@npd.novell.com 
Organization: Novell, Inc.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:38:13 GMT

I wonder what the average life span of a German Shepherd is?
I have heard that any GSD over 6 is considered over-the-hill (from
a vet assistant).

I plan to get a GSD puppy this spring.  Are they ok with small children?
I have a two-year-old and a five-year-old. 

After hearing of that last incident where a GSD killed an infant on the
couch, it makes me worry.

Any info appreciated.


Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: Marg_Meikle@mindlink.bc.ca (Marg Meikle)
Subject: Food Bags
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 00:23:29 GMT

This sounds ridiculous but what is the best way to open those sewn dog food
bags.  Other than chopping off the sewn bits, it does seem that there ought
to be one string that one can just haul on... but that doesn't seem to be the
case.  Thanks
From: mayor@virga.larc.nasa.gov (Shalini Mayor)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Goldens as protection?
Date: 7 Jan 1993 17:44:14 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: virga.larc.nasa.gov

In article <1993Jan7.153241.2832@cas.org>, sla54@cas.org (Sandra Augustine) writes:
|> 
|> 	I've found that many/most goldens can be good WATCH dogs because
|> many/most of them (at least as adults) will bark when the doorbell rings, they
|> see a stranger walking around your property from a window, etc. However, if
|> they live a house which is rather like Grand Central Station (i.e., lots
|> of people coming and going), they probably won't start barking at strangers
|> otherwise, they'd be barking most of the time!
|> 	But, most goldens could never in a million years function as ATTACK
|> dogs. I think that many/most of them don't even know how to bite.
|> 	I agree totally with Chris in the sense that a golden can provide good
|> protection for your home by barking at strangers. I feel very safe in my home
|> with the barking goldens, the fearsome-looking (but pussy cat-like) Siberian,
|> and the very brave 10.5 pound Norfolk terrier. Although none of my "team" has
|> the right instincts to protect me by actually biting an intruder, its a rare
|> thief who try to find this out. The exception would probably be someone
|> on drugs.
 
I agree with Sandra, goldens are not attack dogs - I have a 2 yr old
spayed female Minnie, who will not bite even when provoked (pretty well tested 
by some of our neighbours kids!). She does bark when someone kinda fiddles with
the door knob (someone other than me or my husband that is) - like the door-to-
door salespeople who hang messages around the front door knob and probably looks
menacing (because of her size). But, if I was going to get a attack dog, goldens
(or labs) would not be very high up on my list! Breeds that come to mind are 
more in the line of German Shephards, dobermans etc. (at least they can be trained to attack - kind of hard (impossible?) with a golden)

Shalini 
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: rlt@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (r l taylor)
Subject: Re: A good book!
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Whippany, NJ
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 19:10:11 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.172853.14826@inel.gov> kte@INEL.GOV (Kathryn L Cook) writes:
>A long this same line, I read a book when I was about 8yo that I believe
>was called "CH Dog, Prince Tom".  It was about a Man named Tom who trains
>his Cocker (I think) who is named Prince Tom in obedience and field work.
>P. Tom goes on to win all sorts of OB and Field titles. Seems like it was
>loosely based on fact.  Has anyone ever read this book?

Absolutely!  I remember it being one of those paperbacks we could buy
through the school book-sale program.  Prince Tom was, indeed a Cocker
Spaniel, buff to be precise, and I believe the book was based on a very
real dog.  A while back I had a brief correspondence with someone (whose
name I must apologise for forgetting) who was interested in the _Golden
Dog_ books, who assured me that this was the case...In any event, this
was the book that first introduced me to the concept of obedience trials
and titles.  I don't know how accurate it is, and I gather it's quite
old.  (In one chapter, they're going to New Jersey for a trial, and the
dog's owner is visualizing it as a wilderness.  It's been a long time
since anybody thought that way about this state!!)  But it was well worth
reading...I wouldn't mind finding my copy again.

Roberta
...and the DoberPuppies...
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: rvele@ctp.com (Raymond Velez)
Subject: breeding a dog
Organization: Cambridge Technology Partners
Distribution: us
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 13:58:28 GMT

	Due to everyone discouragement, I don't think I will be
breeding my dog.  However, is there any positive ideas to breeding a
dog.
	Thank You.

-- 
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((*))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
rvele@ctp.com  |   Cambridge Technology Partners       |		
Raymond Velez  |   304 Vassar St, Cambridge, MA        |
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((*))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Dogs In Peeing Contest
From: RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg)
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:18:25 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Philosophy Dept., Wesleyan University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20Lines: 19

Buffer and her constant playmate & soulmate, Barkus (the next-door dog), have
lately gotten into this peculiar peeing game (outdoors, thankfully!).

Whenever Barkus pees, Buffer goes over VERY close to him, facing him, and also
pees.  Whenever Buffer pees, Barkus comes over & pees RIGHT ON TOP of the VERY
spot where Buffer just peed.  Sometimes this can go on for a number of rounds &
it looks hilarious.

I take it that this is some kind of dominance "thing" between them, to see who
gets to "claim" the territory.  Is that what's going on?  Otherwise, they LOVE
to play together;  each of them whines if the other one goes outside and she or
he is not allowed to join her/his friend.  Since they are both quite adept
at retrieving, we often play "fetch" games with the two dogs, & they almost
seem to like to compete with one another.  Is this "peeing" game just another
competition that we humans don't quite understand?

------------------------
Ruth Ginzberg <rginzberg@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
Philosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: sla54@cas.org (Sandra Augustine)
Subject: Re: Goldens as protection?
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:32:41 GMT

In article <16B4F7CAA.CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu> CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes) writes:

		       <lots of text deleted>
>
>Thus, IMHO, it is ludicrous to say that Labs and Goldens cannot be
>good protection for your home.
>
>      -----------------------------------------------------
>Chris Barnes            |   President - Bryan/College Station
>cbarnes@tamvm1.tamu.edu |         Retriever Club.
>(409) 846-3273 (home)   |   "Dedicated to the betterment of
>(409) 845-4437 (work)   |               the retrieving breeds"

	I've found that many/most goldens can be good WATCH dogs because
many/most of them (at least as adults) will bark when the doorbell rings, they
see a stranger walking around your property from a window, etc. However, if
they live a house which is rather like Grand Central Station (i.e., lots
of people coming and going), they probably won't start barking at strangers
otherwise, they'd be barking most of the time!
	But, most goldens could never in a million years function as ATTACK
dogs. I think that many/most of them don't even know how to bite.
	I agree totally with Chris in the sense that a golden can provide good
protection for your home by barking at strangers. I feel very safe in my home
with the barking goldens, the fearsome-looking (but pussy cat-like) Siberian,
and the very brave 10.5 pound Norfolk terrier. Although none of my "team" has
the right instincts to protect me by actually biting an intruder, its a rare
thief who try to find this out. The exception would probably be someone
on drugs.

********************************************************************************
Sandra Augustine  |Home of: Conformation, obedience, and field titled Golden
NORWOOD KENNELS   |Retrievers who do therapy dog work, a disobedient but
ems: sla54@cas.org|beautiful Siberian husky and a *cute* Norfolk terrier puppy
********************************************************************************
	       The above opinions are not those of my employer.
********************************************************************************
From: dan@msen.com (Dan Sugalski)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: training problem <sigh>
Date: 5 Jan 1993 19:06:04 GMT
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, Michigan
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.msen.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Ruth Ginzberg (RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu) wrote:

: Fortunately, I think this is already separate from the formal recall problem (I
: hope).  She is *not* reliable on recall yet, so I have been using her "puppy
: recall" ("C'mere Buffy. <clap> <clap> <clap> C'mon. GOOOOOOood Dog. <clap>
: <clap> <clap>  Al'RIIIGHT! <pet><pet><praise>") when she is off-leash so far. 
: (This seems kind of natural, since I've been taking her off-leash to the woods
: since her vaccinations were complete, & to the fields since even before that.) 
: She responds to this generally quite well *except* when its time to go home.
: For example, I've never had any problem getting her to come to me with the
: "puppy recall" in the MIDDLE of the woods, even when we've encountered horses
: or deer or other dogs;  its only as we get close to the trail head (where the
: car is parked) that she rebels.  So (among other things) I've been clipping her
: leash back on earlier & earlier in the walk, before she suspects that we're
: close enough to the trail head that I'd do that.  <heh, heh>  The result is
: that she is becoming more & more reluctant/evasive ANYWHERE along the trails,
: because she has figured out that I intend to nab her when she least expects it. 
: etc., etc., etc.  Thus, the escalation. <sigh>

It seems that you are doing the right thing on the recall/come whatever. 
How about making the car exciting like the play?  Does Buffy have a
special treat that she likes?  Use it to teach her a "car" command of some
sort.  This way coming to you is separate from going to the car. 
Sometimes you should go to the car and then go back to play.  Buffy is
taking advantage of a reliable schedule of fun/not so fun.  Separating the
commands and randomizing the schedule might help.  It's like dogs that
hate the car because they only go to the vet's office.  If the only time
you do something isn't a good time for you, you won't want to do it for long.

Karen

Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: schalene@sequent.com (Schalene Dagutis)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Anybody get some neat dog X-mas Presents?
Date: 4 Jan 93 13:42:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1993Jan4.134209.7757
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.

>|> >Seeing as this is the season, Did anybody get some neat dog gifts for 
>|> >yourself or your pals?
>|> 
Our two Havanese, Max and Mardi, got some great Christmas presents from
friends and family, including some squeaky toys, various chew toys, new
crate pad covers, new food and water bowls (personalized with their names),
and Christmas stockings.  

Their parents got several great dog books, neon colored shoe strings that
said "I love my dog," a flea vaccum (not sure about this), and a sterling
sliver picture frame with Bichon-looking dog faces on it.  (It's as close
as you can come to what a Havanese looks like.)

Out of all the presents, however, the most fun for the dogs was the wrapping 
paper.  They were very impatient for us to unwrap our presents and give them 
the paper.

schalene
From: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Subject: Re: New Proposed Standard for Labradors
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Reply-To: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Organization: ICS Dept., UC Irvine
Date: 11 Jan 93 19:38:20 GMT

In <19512@mindlink.bc.ca> Valaria_Vorlop@mindlink.bc.ca (Valaria Vorlop) writes:

>> Chris Barnes writes:
>> lizalee@leland.Stanford.EDU (Liza L Miller) writes:
>> >Those of you who know and love the Labrador Retriever breed may find this
>> >of interest:  The standard for the breed is being revised by the national
>> >breed club, the LRC (Labrador Retriever Club, Inc.).
>>
>> I already sent mail to Liza, but what do the rest of you feel:  should
>> this discussion be in private email, or here on rpd?


>I'd like to see it publically.

Just in case people are wondering -- there is nothing intrinsically
"private" about the issue.  Liza simply doesn't have as much time to
read rpd as she used to due to a new job and she didn't think that
there would be a large amount of interest in writing letters to AKC
and LRC on the part of "non-Lab" people.

However, I could see how people might be interested in the general
story and what some of the opinions (names edited, though, of some
of the "higher ups" ;-) involved were.  If there is interest in THAT,
I'll be happy to post some stuff about it (I've been in contact with
Liza over this issue).  Those that are Lab-fanciers and interested in
corresponding with the LRC over the issue should take that up with
Liza (lizalee@leland.stanford.edu), though.

>Valaria_Vorlop@mindlink.bc.ca        Nine weeks 'til Shaedi comes home!

And those are the LONGEST weeks, too... trust me.  Hang in here!!

--Cindy (been there, done that)
--
Cindy Tittle Moore

Terrell's Chocolate Deduction--Hershe (Labrador Retriever)

The rec.pets.dogs FAQ -- all ten parts -- is available via ftp to
pit-manager.mit.edu under pub/usenet/news.answers/dogs-faq/*.  There
is a mail server, email me for details.

In loving memory of Betsy: 4-10-92 to 8-19-92...
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: LS45 <LS45@UNB.CA>
Subject: RE: Dealing with Chewing?
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:18:41 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.170215.4243@leland.Stanford.EDU> shedevil@leland.Stanford.EDU (Anne P. Mitchell, JD) writes:
Some omitted.
>So far Nika has managed to destroy my landlord's loveseat <sigh>, and to
>remove most of the skirting from our [fortunately old anyway] sofabed
>[hmm..do I detect a pattern here?..maybe instead of renaming her when we
>got her from "Potlicker" <yech> to "Nika" it should have been to
>"CouchChewer"? :-)]
Some omitted.
>
>I have some bitter apple..but obviously I can't spray the entire house,
>and I suspect there is little telling what will be the next object of
>her chewing affections.
>
>She *does* have toys, and I offer them to her whenever I am
>able..although perhaps some toys are more chew-satisfying than others?
>
>Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
>
>Annie
>
I, too, have been wondering about anti-chew methods.  Jasper, 7 month
old Newfie cross, has his own room which he has decided to redecorate.
We've tried Bitter Apple, which worked until he changed his mind about
the taste and now likes it.  Since then we've tried hot sauce, mustard,
soap (which he thought was wonderful), and black pepper.  None of these
stopped the Mouth for long.  We even tried Vick's VapoRub, (desperation)
which did work until the smell wore off, but he just moved onto other
bigger and better things
(such as the floor, which would be horrible to put Vick's on).  He has
toys, such as Gummabone, Budabone, Nylabone, etc. all of which he enjoys
as well.  He only does this when he is alone, and we haven't been able
to catch him at it.
Thanks for any and all advice,
DMS
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Distribution: world
Date: Sat,  2 Jan 93 00:33:04 -0800
From: ELAINE_GALLEGOS@f703.n202.z1.fidonet.org
Subject: Looking for a pomeranian/pekinese
Comment-To: ORTEGA@f703.n202.z1.fidonet.org
Reply-To: ELAINE_GALLEGOS@f703.n202.z1.fidonet.org
X-FSC-PATH: 202/703 701
X-FSC-PID:  RA 0.04

  Take a look at your local paper.  The classified section will have
both a "thrifty" section and a dog section- most papers anyway!
  You can get a look at some very nice dogs in this way, if you are
basically looking for a cute pet.  Why not check into an older dog?
Those little dogs tend to live for a long time, and in very good
health.  You may be able to help out a little fellow who is already
trained, neutered, and has all it's shots!
--- FMail 0.92
 * Origin: HILLCREST COMMUNITY BBS, SAN DIEGO: HST 619-291-0544 (1:202/703)
From: CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: puppy mills
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 09:47:07 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University
NNTP-Posting-Host: tamvm1.tamu.edu

In article <2B5200AC.8640@ics.uci.edu>
  tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore) writes:
 
>
>No, it is not, unfortunately.  It seems to be apparent in almost any
>breed over 50lbs.  There are some exceptions, but I can't think of them
>off the top of my head.
 
Coyotes are a good example.  Actually, CHD is fairly rare in any wild
canine.  Natural selection at work perhaps?
      -----------------------------------------------------
Chris Barnes            |   President - Bryan/College Station
cbarnes@tamvm1.tamu.edu |         Retriever Club.
(409) 846-3273 (home)   |   "Dedicated to the betterment of
(409) 845-4437 (work)   |               the retrieving breeds"
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: angela@brahms.udel.edu (Angela Lakwete)
Subject: Re: breeding a dog
Organization: University of Delaware
Distribution: us
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 03:22:26 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.135828.14795@ctp.com> rvele@ctp.com (Raymond Velez) writes:
>	Due to everyone discouragement, I don't think I will be
>breeding my dog.  However, is there any positive ideas to breeding a
>dog.
>
No!



-- 
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~angela@brahms.udel.edu~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
   :      Univ. of Delaware: History of Technology         : 
   :                CompuServe: 72657,1125                 :  
   :     "Live simply that others may simply live."        : 
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs