HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sexism question
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 00:08:15 GMT
Reply-To: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca

In article <thaaang.726303482@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John  
Dorrance) writes:
> Is 'holy hooters!' a sexist exclamation? 

Not when you're talking about trains.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: For a limited time only
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 21:02:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.172934.5606@tc.cornell.edu>, shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
> Say, what is it with Canada and polka dancing?  My childhood
> memories of Canadian television is polka shows and hockey
> games, and changing the channel to pick up Buffalo stations
> as soon as my grandparents left the room.

Which were the buffaloes doing, playing hockey or dancing the polka?
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: long-term relationships...success stories, please...
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 21:39:01 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.175151.4548@HQ.Ileaf.COM>, jontom@HQ.Ileaf.COM (J.T. Kittredge) writes:
> As an outsider I obviously can't comment on why a relationship works,
> but having had the privilege of spending a fair amount of time with you
> and John together over the last year or so I can testify to the quiet
> pleasure of being around two people whose relationship has mellowed
> and a worn a smooth fit over the years like the wooden cogs in an old
> water mill. (This last sentence: Jamesian tour-de-force or an
> overblown run-on-sentence? You be the judge.)

Any reason why it can't be both? :-)

> 
> If I were unafraid of offending you, Robert, I would compare spending
> a weekend with you and John to spending a weekend with my Mom and Dad.

But since you're not, you won't. If you had, I wouldn't have been
offended. I think. And I'll bet your conversation and behavior in the
company of your Mom and Dad are different in some significant
repsects from the way you talk and act around John and me. (Should we
start demanding more respect? I don't think so.) :-)

Cheers,
  Robert
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis)
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:39:33 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.072744.27430@netcom.com> cjlee@netcom.com (Caroline Jean Lee) writes:
>Reality Check for those glorifying Stonewall:

[...two paragraphs deleted...]

>It's important for the US, but let's not get outta hand here.

Too late.  B{(

Brian
-- 

Brian A. Jarvis,          Rm. 4026, Sidney Smith Hall, Dept. of Psychology,
jarvis@psych.toronto.edu  University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
System Administrator      M5S 1A1  (416) 978-3948
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay-bashing (was: Re: Private...)
Date: 6 Jan 1993 10:15:36 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1993Jan6.153719.13825@mcs.anl.gov> 
nasiatka@anhep3.anl.gov.bitnet (Jim Wylde) writes:
> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> >A few *years* ago?  Heavens, I have that happen to me at least
> >once a week.  Most recently on Sunday, as I was walking to the
> >grocery store around the corner from my apartment. A car filled
> >with scummy teenagers was stopped at a light, and as I crossed
> >the street in front of the car they all started making smoochy-
> >kissy sounds, which escalated into whistles and "hey faggot!"
> >and "hey cocksucker!" catcalls.  
>
> Um, I think I need to interject my 2 cents worth here....
> I actually have to agree with Dave about bashing, however, 
> there is a vast difference between name calling and physically
> beating the living shit outta someone.  

You're telling me.  I've never been beaten up, although
on a few occasions it looked like that's what would have
happened had I not gotten the hell away.  I *do* get 
verbally harrassed all the time -- once a week, on average,
from the time I was about 13 or 14 -- and have had bottles
and other objects (eggs used to be popular in the San 
Fernando Valley) thrown at me from moving cars from time
to time.

> They're both still
> bashing, but 'bashing' is a broader term than just physical
> assault.

I don't know.  It doesn't feel like bashing to *me*, probably
because:

> [ ... ]  It depends on how 'strong' 
> a person is. (sticks and stones...:)

It's always been my feeling that anyone can call me anything
at all.  I don't particularly care.  Sometimes I'll answer
back, but usually I'll ignore them.

> I don't know where you two live that you get that treatment,

West Hollywood, California.  The name-calling event on Sunday 
took place on the corner of Fairfax and Santa Monica Blvd.

> but usually folks who do that sort of taunting are so closeted
> and frustrated, that they have to find a release. 

I don't care to psychoanalyze their behavior.  I think that
the folks who do that sort of taunting are motherfucking
straightboy assholes, and I would love to see them subjected
to a little corporal punishment.

> Of course
> some comments are just made outta ignorance too.  Those can
> (and should) be corrected politely.

Sometimes politeness works, and sometimes it doesn't.

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tim@ear-ache.mit.edu (Tim Wilson)
Subject: Re: Bar Etiquette: Further digression
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
	<1993Jan8.215323.22523@infonode.ingr.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:26:13 GMT

norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris) writes:

   I've heard of red-eye gravy (for it's effect on the body, I think) ...

Red-eye gravy is made from country-ham de-glazings and black coffee,
thus the pick-me-up effect when you've got red eyes.

--
Tim Wilson
Internet:  tim@ear-ache.mit.edu
UUCP:  mit-eddie!mit-athena!tim
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Identifying soc.motssers at the MOW
Date: 12 Jan 1993 10:09:45 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1993Jan12.155622.22157@dvorak.amd.com> 
tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett) writes:
> In article <1993Jan11.210020.15526@bmers145.bnr.ca> jfile@bnr.ca writes:
> >Myself, never having been to a motss con, wouldn't know a motsser if I 
> >tripped over one. 

Remind me to keep out of your way, then.

> >Anyone have any ideas?
>
> Look for some of us to be wearing propellor beenies and walking with
> National Organization of Gay and Lesbian Scientists and Technical
> Professional (aka NOGLSTP) signs/banners :)

Propeller beenies?  Sheesh.  Some of us take the milliner's
art a bit more seriously than *that*.  Look for some of us 
in Schiaparelli creations.

Arne
From: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Date: 5 Jan 93 18:31:54 GMT
Reply-To: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Organization: sgi
NNTP-Posting-Host: tattoo.mti.sgi.com


My nomination for best men's cologne is more of a recipe:


Ingredients:
1. Healthy diet
2. unscented soap
3. man

Feed man with healthy diet.  Clean in morning with unscented soap. 
Have man work all day.  The scent is wonderful from the begingin of
the day to the end...


FWA
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Arne Adolphson, Moron At Large
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 15:32:08 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1993Jan9.075212.25428@netcom.com> <73239@cup.portal.com>
  <1993Jan10.221457.23400@netcom.com>

Jack Hamilton writes:
>George Madison writes:
>>Jack Hamilton writes:
>>>George doesn't qualify as a queen, even though he certainly fulfills
>>>criterion #4.
>>I'd like to know where you get *that* idea, since, as with the
>>subject that started this whole thread, you've never met me in
>>person *either*.
>
>Whether I've met you in person isn't especially relevant; I've read some of
>what you've written.

I think it's entirely relevant.  As has been stated many times
here, many - if not most - people come across differently in
person than they do here.

>Are you saying you don't dress to produce a calculated effect?   I've
>certainly gotten the impression that you do.

I'm presuming you mean "calculated effect ON OTHERS." The answer
to that one, is no, I do not.  The only "calculated effect" I
dress for is my own comfort.

>>>I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to decide which
>>>of #'s 1, 2, and 3 he doesn't fit.
>Which ones do you think you don't meet?

None, of course. ;-) 
 
() I write to say "no" to death.
()      -- William Faulkner
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: EE statements (was: Re: Attention Skiers Boycotting Colorado)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:01:08 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <thaaang.725849501@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:

>As an aside, wouldn't 'wriggling whelp' make a wonderful term
>of endearment?

Except when trying to bathe a 10-week-old puppy...  :-)

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B5 f t w g+ k s              I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: Abolish Marriage
Organization: Free Faerie Front
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:42:11 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.060906.26890@flood.com> tom@flood.com (Tom Chatt) writes:
>solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
>| Here's an idea that should do a neat end-run around the whole
>| gay-marriage issue. Why not have the government cease to
>| recognize marriage of any sort?
>
>I think this is definitely the way to go. It would operate very
>similarly to (or even be an extension of) partnership law...
>
>[...]
>
>I think the way to proceed would be to first create the legal
>structure for this extended partnership concept. If a real
>viable alternative to marriage is created, I think a lot of
>straight people will use it too. Once the new institution
>becomes established, *plenty* of people will start to
>question why married people should get those "special rights".
>Then marriage as it exists now could be eliminated, and
>it wouldn't even be a particularly gay issue.

We could pick up some novel allies. There are a lot of Americans who
come from cultures with different family models, e.g. Moslems and
others who practice polygamy. They might be among the first to switch
from "legal marriage" to this partnership model. For that matter, the
Mormons might drop their ban on polygamy (which I believe they refer
to as the "great compromise") and switch over to the partnership. In
which case we'd be allied with Sen. Hatch...
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"I is not now, nor has I ever been, a Human Bein'!"
                ---Pogo Possum
From: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: race based fetishes
Date: 11 Jan 93 17:04:05 GMT
Reply-To: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Organization: sgi
NNTP-Posting-Host: tattoo.mti.sgi.com

In article <1993Jan8.224448.28096@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM>, bartlett@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM (Terry Bartlett) writes:
|> In article <C0JtBM.91o@queernet.org> rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
|> >When I went out with Steve, people called me "rice queen" and decided I'd
|> >be interested in every Asian guy around.
|> 
|> It could have been worse, Roger.  You could have gone out with me.
|> Then what would people have called you?  :-(

Very very fortunate.


FWA
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: Brown_Michael@msm.cdx.mot.com
Subject: Introduction
Organization: Motorola_Codex
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:47:38 GMT

Hi,

Just would like to introduce myself, I'm new to News, and thought I'd begin
with a question what is motss??

Thanks,

Michael 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: chuck@ssd.kodak.com (Charles S. Collins 726-9461)
Subject: Spahr vs. Presbys
Originator: chuck@fourier
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 13:06:27 GMT

Rochester, N.Y.

Yesterday afternoon (1/10/93) the congregation of the Downtown United
Presbyterian Church met to decide how to proceed with its call to the
Reverend Jane Adams Spahr, an openly lesbian pastor from San Francisco.
The hall was filled to overflowing for the duration of the 3 hour meeting.

Two motions passed.

By unanimous vote the congregation directed its Session (church board) to
send a letter of protest to the national General Assembly regarding the
recent ruling of the GA Permanent Judicial Commission which "set aside"
their call to Rev. Spahr.  [The PJC ruled that no "self-affirming" gay
person could be installed to a ministry within the denomination, in 
accordance with church policy regarding the ordination of homosexual persons.]

In a separate motion, the congregation overwhelmingly endorsed the Session's
plan to hire Rev. Spahr as an "evangelist", empowering her to travel 
throughout the denomination to speak on behalf of gay and lesbian 
Presbyterians and the congregations who value their leadership.  If she
accepts this position, Janie's travel expenses would be covered by 
contributions from supporters as well as the Downtown Church.

The goal of Janie's travels would be the overturn of the denomination's
"definitive guidance."  This policy adopted by the General Assembly 
1978 forbids churches and presbyteries from ordaining "self-affirming,
practicing homosexual persons."  The policy not only offends gay members
and their supporters, it also offends Presbyterians who resent the national
church dictating whom they may or may not ordain.
-- 
Chuck Collins				Product Software Engineering
chuck@pixel.kodak.com			Eastman Kodak Company
(716)726-9461				901 Elmgrove Road
					Rochester, NY  14653-5811
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Bar etiquette
Date: 5 Jan 93 04:42:00 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, swc@fig.citib.com (Steve Carpenter) wrote:
>There's a place on South Beach (Miami) called 'Gertrudes' that is wonderful.
>It's on Lincoln near Colins Ave. Try it out, it's great!

Wonderful!  Lesbian owned.  Great place.

Actually nowhere near Collins.  It's in the 800 block toward the west end.

Sim, in Miami, where bars have dartboards *and* glass glasses...

Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson@ocean.dnet.nasa.gov
"Home is where your roof landed" - t-shirt seen in Miami
"We Will Rebuild (tm)" - majority community response to Andrew
"We Will Redecorate" - gay community response to Andrew
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: the Christian Coalition comes to Colorado Springs
Date: 13 Jan 93 00:30:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1993Jan13.003052.12361
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1993Jan11.173348.5261@craycos.com> mush@craycos.com (Randy Murrish) writes:
>Well I guess it was inevitable but the Christian Coalition will be
>coming to Colorado Springs to protest in front of two gay-friendly
>stores, Poor Richards Cafe and the Chinook Bookshop because they
>*GASP* *CLUTCH THE PEARLS BABS* knowingly employ gays and lesbians.

really? Are you serious? And these places are privately owned businesses?

Who put the Christian Coalition up to this? I couldn't imagine them
taking any action which could help us as much as this. The CC is being
downright un-American!

So what's being done in response? Media control, darlings, it's all
about media control.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/    A bright light in the sky, like God taking a photograph
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus)
Subject: Re: Different Strokes (was Re: Changing standards of female beauty)
Organization: Open Software Foundation Research Institute, Grenoble
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:16:53 GMT

richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel) writes:
>>To change the subject slightly, do you think it would be
>>immoral to shoot my neighbor's dog?  [not-so-shaggy dog story followed]
>If you have the neighbor's phone number, I would suggest calling him/her
>at all hours.  Simply say, "Your dog is barking" and hang up.  After 
>he/she has been awakened several times, they'll likely do something
>about it.

If the dog doesn't awaken this neighbour, why would a phone call?

,
Eamonn
From: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Should I be doing this?
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:01:45 GMT
Reply-To: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca

In article <C0py5C.7ow@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)  
writes:
> mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
> >(Which reminds me
> >that my sister wants to know whether there is any tradition among
> >gay men to wear a wedding band on the right hand; I said I didn't
> >know of any such but that I'd ask.)

Never heard of that one before...

> I've heard of it but it's not universally followed.  IMO, wearing
> a wedding band on the left hand has the advantage that, when some
> clueless personage asks about my wife, I can gently correct the
> pronoun in talking about my hubby and come out to them at the
> same time.  It is the single easiest way I've found to bring the
> subject up.

Bravo! I concur.

> I know some people would say that wearing it on the left hand is
> being closety, but the surprised facial expressions I get are just too
> delightful for me to resist.  BTW I've also worn a band on the right
> hand in recent years, a gift on our sixth anniversary, so I'm covered
> either way.

Wearing it on the left is practical. Being right-handed, it protects my  
ring from destruction and keeps it out of the way.

But since it isn't a "wedding" ring, as I consider the connotations of  
marriage to be distasteful, I guess I might as well wear it somehwere  
else. :-)  (Hint: my SO has a ring too, but it's *not* on his hand.)

-Anthony
From: hwt@bcarh11a.BNR.CA (Henry Troup)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: zw{i,a}cky matters
Date: 8 Jan 93 15:52:06 GMT
Reply-To: Henry.Troup@BNR.CA
Distribution: world
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Dec31.175416.17006@Csli.Stanford.EDU>,
zwicky@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Arnold Zwicky) writes:
|>in article <C03y14.1B9@demon.co.uk> gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (graham
|>toal) writes,
|> >Hey, while we're on the subject, will someone please tell me what the heck
|> >a 'zwicky box' is.

I've noted that there's a brand of sewing thread called Zwicky that
comes in spools that are usually displayed in a large square array.  I
dunno(tm) if this is related.
The *BIG* *RED* Webster's dictionary doesn't have it, btw.
                                           
Henry Troup - H.Troup@BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions
	       Legislated morality is the enemy of true morality
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.asian.american
From: cgraham@convex.com (Chip Graham)
Subject: Re: FBI Report on 1991 Hate Crimes
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1993 12:56:55 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <73057@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
>On the FBI Hate crimes report, here's the % breakdown by race and group
>
>If gays are 2%, then it would still make Jews twice as likely as gays to
>be victims of hate crimes. Any explanations?
>
	Could it be that gays are less likely to report hate crimes?
	It's no beig deal to be Jewish and report a hate crime against
	Jews, It's no big deal to be black and report a hate crime against
	Blacks. But it's quite different to be gay and have to deal with
	homophobic cops, file a report which puts on paper that you are
	gay and were harassed for it. It can be very intimidating and
	for many people it's just not worth the possible publicity.
-- 
Chip Graham      cgraham@convex.com         +1 214 497 4642
Convex Computer Corporation 
3000 Waterview Parkway     
Box 833851, Richardson,Tx,75083
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: zw{i,a}cky matters
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:04:11 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <C0JnFw.1qK@unix.amherst.edu>,
twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
> In article <C0G27z.90u@cck.coventry.ac.uk>
> idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
> >In article <92366.144938SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
> >Graydon <SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
> >>A therblig is a 'Gilbreth' spelt backwards, Gilbreth as in 'John Kenneth'.
> >
> >John Kenneth?  Then surely you meen "Galbraith", and the reversal would
> >be a "thiarblag".
> 
> I'm amazed at the things I learn on the net.  Most of all that "th"
> spelled backwards is "th."

Is it a thorn in your flesh?

-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"*compital* adj. pertaining to crossroads, or to the intersection
of leaf-veins" -- Chambers English Dictionary (1988)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: zwicky@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Arnold Zwicky)
Subject: Re: Maria Montez vs Burl Ives, or Lighten Up a Little, Folks
Summary: autological
Organization: very little
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 16:47:41 GMT

AUTOLOGICAL, not ONTOLOGICAL.  

arnold (about to be off-line until monday the 11th)
From: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Enjoying Smallpox
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 05:24:51 GMT
Reply-To: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca

In article <1993Jan10.024028.16771@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu  
(Jess Anderson) writes:
> 
> In article <6JAN93.18034988@enh.nist.gov>
> aberson@enh.nist.gov, writing in the smell-good thread,
> remarked:
> 
> >I'm trying to remember the last person I knew who enjoyed
> >smallpox.
> 
> For some reason I seem unable to remember the exact date,
> but I think it's *extremely* unlikely, given your age, that
> you've known anyone who either enjoyed it or didn't.  Hasn't
> it been more than 30 years since the last reported case?
> Our resident medicos will doubtless remind us of the facts
> in the matter.

I recall an article about the last frozen stores of smallpox culture, and  
their destruction. There was some question about the wisdom of destroying  
the last vestige of a disease organism... it isn't exactly fresh in my  
mind.

But no, nobody has had smallpox in a long time.

-Anthony
From: kmeyer@aero.org (Kraig R. Meyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What to do for NEW YEAR'S EVE in Los Angeles?
Date: 6 Jan 93 16:36:39
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: solarium.aero.org
In-reply-to: Furr@cup.portal.com's message of Wed, 30 Dec 92 21:15:23 PST

> Ron Buckmire asks:
>>What are other people doing for New Year's eve in LA?

Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) said:
> Going to San Francisco.  ;-{)##]

Just remember, Los Angeles has more gay people in it that San
Francisco has people.  

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| The opinions expressed above are my own and do not necessarily          |
| represent those of The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA.           |
|									  |
| Kraig R. Meyer		   	                 kmeyer@aero.org  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: john@drummond.demon.co.uk (John Fisher)