HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: truesdel@ics.uci.edu (R. Scott Truesdell)
Subject: Re: spoke prep
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Distribution: na
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:06:39 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech

In article <BxBv2J.578@news.iastate.edu>, twjm8@isuvax.iastate.edu wrote:
> You talk about the stuff being a thread locking agent.  How does one true the
> wheels if this stuff actually locks the threads?  You mention adjustment being
> a problem if the stuff is incorrectly applied, but I would be interested in
> finding out experience on adjustment with the stuff properly applied.

SpokePrep leaves a dry coating on the threads that has friction under light
pressure but noticably less friction under higher pressure (as when
tightening spokes). I figure that this works by filling in the small
irregularities in the thread surfaces with flat platelets, allowing the
surfaces to slide easier over each other. The thread locking properties
result from filling in the voids thus allowing more surface contact and
less room for vibration. Granted, the threads are not locked as firmly as
if one were to use Loctite (heaven forbid!) but the threads are locked more
than if left bare and certainly more than if oiled. It works like this: as
you thread the nipples by hand (before there is tension on the spoke) the
SpokePrep makes the task more difficult. But as the tension builds, the
SpokePrep smoothes out the process and you don't feel the minute 'catches'
as you true.

It can be argured that this extra thread locking is superfluous but since
it doesn't seem to hurt...

Since the voids are all filled up, foreign matter cannot enter the thread
area thus leaving the spokes easily adjustable throughout the wheel's
lifespan. The platelets smoothely glide across each other making very small
adjustments easy.

All this is more or less covered in Wheelsmith's literature on SpokePrep. I
don't think SpokePrep is necessary for building good wheels but I don't
think it hurts any. Since I already bought it, I'll keep using it. A little
bit goes a long long way. When I run out (500, 1000 spokes later??) I will
decide then whether to buy more.

For what it's worth, I recently disassembled some wheels built about three
years ago by Wheelsmith and it appeared that they were not, repeat NOT,
built using SpokePrep. Maybe SpokePrep is relatively new, maybe they don't
use it with their automated machines -- I can't answer that.

  --scott
From: bandrew@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Bryce Andrew Hodgeman)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: spokes
Date: 6 Nov 1992 18:59:18 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: bandrew@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: bandrew@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

From article <1da9u8INN3uc@male.EBay.Sun.COM>, by npg@manx.EBay.Sun.COM:
> Which is thicker, a 14-gauge or a 15-gauge spoke?  
> This is not a trick question.
> 
> 

14 guage is the thicker one.  on a 14/15/14 guage spoke the outsides are
larger than the center.  It is the same principle as a shotgun.  The higher
numbers are smaller.  Don't feel stupid I had wondered that questio for 
quite a while myself.

hammer on,

The Bryceman
From: jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:07:04 GMT
Subject: Re: Symmetric rear hub
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech

Bernd Kischnick writes:

> So wheel experts of all countries, unite and tell me whether the
> hi/lo concept is fundamentally flawed in a way I can not see!

With radial spoking, the high flange causes a small improvement in the
lateral spoke angle but for tangential spoking it does essentially
nothing.  A diagram that shows why this occurs is shown in a book on
bicycle wheels that I have recommended for such questions.  The author
has tried to anticipate about every reasonable question imaginable
and treats these in detail.

To make up for the failure to correct the spoke angle problem, the
high flange makes spoke insertion in the low flange difficult to the
degree that all spokes on that side must be bent into a curve on
insertion.  Of course the question of why these hubs, that purport
to solve an ongoing problem, are not found even in small numbers on
production bicycles should be a conspicuous tip-off.  Beware, snake
oil abounds.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
From: chrisv@carnival.lbl.gov (Chris Moll)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Mavic 556 Hubs
Date: 12 Nov 1992 23:56:16 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory
Reply-To: chris@carnival.lbl.gov (Chris Moll)
NNTP-Posting-Host: carnival.lbl.gov

David Casseres writes:
>How much Mavic indexing have you tried, and what have you compared it with?

I've worked on one bike with Mavic indexing from two years ago, and another
with this year's cassette.  The older stuff was a pain.  The more recent stuff
worked better, but was nothing special.  I wouldn't want to shift in a hurry
right before sprinting a hill.  Again, I think it costs too much for how well
it works.  Dunno, maybe my sample size is too small.

I'm comparing it to current Shimano, who I seem to be defending far more
than I like recently.  The sad fact is that I've repeatedly pulled Shimano
stuff out of the box, slapped it on and had it work flawlessly.  Then I've
watched it become obsolete before I could put the tools away... 

> if it ever does break all the parts will still be available
Something you certainly won't get from Shimano.

--
Chris Moll                       (510)486-7891
---
"Blessed are they who Go Around in Circles, for they Shall
be Known as Wheels."
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: shenry@cs.rice.edu (Sam Henry)
Subject: Re: wild rim failure -- drive side *pushing* fatigue
Keywords: material fatigue, heat treating, cracks, rim sidewall
Organization: Rice University, Houston
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:37:19 GMT

In article <BxF0u3.Gpu@news.cso.uiuc.edu> bruce@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu
(Bruce Krueger) is crackling: 
>
>... I had a couple of guys come in with cracks in the sidewall of
>their rims where nearly every drive side 'pushing' spoke was holding
>it under tension, and ... possible preventative measures to take in
>the future. 

>... both were 'hard anodized', and the failure consisted of cracks
>developing in the sidewall of the rims (on both sides) centered on
>the point where the drive side 'pushing' spokes (rear wheel) held the
>rim under tension. ...

>questions:  ...
>	    is this more common with heat-treated/hard anodized rims?

Bingo!!!
Anodized rims are prone to cracking and splitting, with the failure
originating at or near the spoke holes.

The anodizing process causes the fusion of the metal and the
inflexible material.  With less flex inherent in what should be a
flexible system, the result is failure at the point of highest
stress--where you and other half-decent wheel builders insist on
putting so much stress on the wheel.

Possible preventive measures:

Quit selling the anodized rims.  Or at least warn customers what
they may be getting into.  Mavics are good rims.  The alternative rim
to have used in the wheel you built to fail (inadvertantly) is the MA-2.
-- 
sam henry <shenry@rice.edu>
Wanna ride?
From: jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:49:40 GMT
Subject: Re: Avocet Low-Speed Inaccuracy
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech

Chris Calabrese writes:

> The symptom is that when you approach the threshold quickly, the
> reading looks something like this (over time):
>         7, 8, 9, 5
>         17, 18, 19, 10
> The unit usually corrects itself in around 10-20 seconds.

This is unacceptable and seems like the same old problem of a loose
connection at the pickup.  Newer units no longer use plug connections
here because users were not aware that this was a possible disconnect.
At lower speeds and with a marginal connection that is possible when
the connector pins are only partially engaged, this can cause
intermittent signal that is variably interpreted.

Make sure the connection *at the pickup* are fully engaged.  If this
does not get rid of the problem turn the whole thing in for a new one.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: lenny@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Len Goodman)
Subject: Re: Another annoying lighting question
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 01:55:56 GMT


Does anyone understand the relationship between the different ways to 
measure light output from a bulb: watts, lux, lumens, candlepower, candela,
plus any others you can think of.
Any explanation would be appreciated.

  Len Goodman (lenny@hobbs.hunt.inmet.com)
From: warriors@eb5ts4.EBay.Sun.COM (Dave Maycon)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Girvin Flex-Stem on Road Bikes
Date: 11 Nov 1992 20:47:49 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: warriors@eb5ts4.EBay.Sun.COM (Dave Maycon)
NNTP-Posting-Host: eb5ts4.ebay.sun.com

Eventhough Cannondales have a very harsh ride, I still think they are one of
the nicest bikes out there.  To solve this problem, I was wondering if it 
would be a good idea to put the shock-obsorbing Girvin Flex-Stem on.  I read
in a bike magazine that this product is about 430 grms., now that is pretty
heavy for a stem, especially for a time trial bike.  I don't know if I should
give up some weight for comfort.  Does anybody out there have this certain
configuration on their road bike?  Please give advice or opinions

Dave
From: jdr40@ccc.amdahl.com (John Ritter)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: looking for Franklyn Cycles...
Date: 10 Nov 92 19:08:13 GMT
Reply-To: jdr40@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (John Ritter)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

Do you mean Franklin Cycles, a custom frame shop in the Columbus OH area?
Can't give you the number but a call to information for the 614 area
code should fix you up. Last I heard I think they were in Plain City
right out side of Columbus.
From: todd@cleo.abt.com (Todd Nix)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Cateye CS-1000 Cyclosimulator
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:16:28 GMT
Organization: Alternative Broadcast Technology

In <92310.233409U54874@uicvm.uic.edu> <U54874@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>Does anybody have one?  I'm thinking of getting a trainer since Chicago

We got one about a week ago to replace a $35 wind-trainer we got at a pawn shop.
It's really nice, not to hard on your rear tire, much smoother and quiter
than our old wind trainer. The selectable grades are nice. I especially
like the axle attachment rather than the BB attachment. It has a spring-loaded
smooth axle for the rear tire to run on.

>The cateye is a bit expensive, $260 from Nashbar, but the cost diminishes if

It's only $225 from Colorado. Not too bad when you start looking at some of
the higher end rollers/trainers.

>Now, does it really work well?  Or should I just turn into a blob and try

It works great. I couldn't get my wife to ride the old trainer, but she's
ridden the Cateye 4 times this week. Only problem is she gets pissed at me
'cause I can burn off 500 calories in 30 minutes while she does about 200. ;}

Definitely don't turn into a blob. If you don't have a HRM, you might think
about getting one for use on the trainer. And a really loud TV. ;}

-- 
Todd Nix                                                           todd@abt.com
 Movement1981-1982Power,Corruption,andLiesLowLifeBrotherhoodSubstanceTechnique
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter)
Subject: SPDs and Snow
Reply-To: paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 13:01:25 GMT

This weekend we got some snow that stuck around in the trails.  Riding
this weekend my SPDs would get filled up with snow and ice, making it
impossible to get clipped in without stopping and digging it out.  I 
actually changed my pedals back to regular "clipped" pedal to ride on
Sunday.  Is there any way around this (except for never coming out of
the pedals from start to finish)?


Cheers...Stuart
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: chandler@wc.novell.com (Mark Chandler)
Subject: Re: Girvin Flex-Stem on Road Bikes
Organization: Novell, Inc. - Walnut Creek
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:30:37 GMT

In article <1drrhlINN9gj@male.EBay.Sun.COM> warriors@eb5ts4.EBay.Sun.COM (Dave Maycon) writes:
>Eventhough Cannondales have a very harsh ride, I still think they are one of
>the nicest bikes out there.  To solve this problem, I was wondering if it 
>would be a good idea to put the shock-obsorbing Girvin Flex-Stem on.  I read
>in a bike magazine that this product is about 430 grms., now that is pretty
>heavy for a stem, especially for a time trial bike.  I don't know if I should
>give up some weight for comfort.  Does anybody out there have this certain
>configuration on their road bike?  Please give advice or opinions

The Girven stems weigh over 500g if memory serves.  Right now (and
most-likely, forever) they only come in a 25.4mm clamp size.  Getting
the curved portion of a drop bar can be very difficult.

There will be a in-depth review of the Girven stem (used on a drop-bar
hybrid) in the next issue of _crosswords_.


>
>Dave


--
Mark Chandler               Novell, Inc.          510/975-4522
chandler@wc.novell.com      Walnut Creek, CA
==================================================================
     The opinions expressed above are mine, not my employer's.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: oscar@crackle.Berkeley.EDU (Oscar DeMartino)
Subject: Out of Control Front wheel
Reply-To: oscar@crackle.Berkeley.EDU (Oscar DeMartino)
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 21:57:48 GMT

A question of balance --

I have a touring bike that is about 10 years old.  I have never
been able to ride it with no hands.  I remove my hands from the
bar and the front wheel starts to wobble.  The faster I am going
it takes to get out of control but never more than 30-40 yards,
3-4 seconds.

Any thoughts why the wobble - and any solutions????????????

Thanks in advance.
-- 
Oscar "Fred" DeMartino - J.P.L. (818) 306-6181             J  PPP   L
4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pas, CA. 91109  MS: 525-3660         J  P  P  L
MAYBE: oscar@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV                   J   J  PPP   L
ARPA: jpl-devvax!oscar@cit-vax   FAX: (818) 306-6912    JJJ   P     LLLLL
From: cjc@ulysses.att.com (Chris Calabrese)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Avocet Low-Speed Inaccuracy
Summary: software?
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:19:57 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Murray Hill, NJ, USA

In article <1460013@hplredHPL.HP.COM> jbrandt@hplredHPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:
>Re: Avocet Low-Speed Inaccuracy
>
>Marc Lee writes:
>
>> I have an Avocet 40 which gives extremely inaccurate speed readings
>> (on the low side) at speeds lower than 10mph.
>
>This sounds like a faulty instrument to me.  Why not return it and
>get another one.  Avocet is eager to please the customer so you
>shouldn't have any trouble with this.
>
>jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com

I've had an Avocet 30 for about 2 years now, and I'm generally pleased
with it's speed accuracy.  However, I have noticed some peculiarities
which I think may be due to software.

When crossing the threshold of 10mph or 20mph (I haven't noticed it at
30, but then, I don't get up to 30 _that_ often, and I haven't hit
40 or 50 since the last time I rode in Vermont [I love them downhills...]),
there seems to be a software bug if you are accelerating quickly
(maybe that's why I've never seen it at 30, 40 or 50 - I may be
_moving_, but the acceleration is more gradual).

The symptom is that when you approach the threshold quickly, the
reading looks something like this (over time):
	7, 8, 9, 5
	17, 18, 19, 10

The unit usually corrects itself in around 10-20 seconds.

My best guess is that the system starts intentionally skipping
interrupts from the sensor at 10mph increments (or maybe it's at some
metric increment and it happens to occur somewhere near the 10 and 20
mph marks), and when you are accelerating rapidly, it can't figure out
which side of the mark you're on (whether to start skipping or not).
--
Name:			Christopher J. Calabrese
Brain loaned to:	AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ
att!ulysses!cjc		cjc@ulysses.att.com
Obligatory Quote:	``pher - gr. vb. to schlepp.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: Orakel@sarpih.no (Richard Rostad)
Subject: Re: SPDs and Snow
Organization: stfold Ingenirhyskole
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:11:01 GMT

In article <93240003@otter.hpl.hp.com> slo@otter.hpl.hp.com (Steve Loughran) writes:

>Use SPD in Snow? Why? You'll have to wear thin little bike shoes instead
>of lightweight hiking boots with 3 pairs of socks.

>Not only do these keep your feet warmer, but you need to get a good
>kicking action when you're trying to get you and your bike up
>a 25% slope of iced-over stream.

>Mind you, even normal pedals aren't compatible with a pair of articulated
>crampons. Maybe Look, who do ski-bindings too could come up with some
>pedal bindings to take ski mountaineering boots so that you could get
>off the bike and fit your skis or crampons for the technical bits.

   -Steve

Using standard Look clipless pedals, it is no big problem to unscrew the 
plastic gadgets under the small shoes, and drill some appropriate holes in 
the soles of your boots. (provided you have fairly thick soles).  This has 
been done in Norway without significant problems.

Richard Rostad
From: twjm8@isuvax.iastate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: spoke prep
Date: 7 Nov 92 03:59:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BxBv2J.578
Reply-To: twjm8@isuvax.iastate.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa

In article <truesdel-061192170228@aux-1.ics.uci.edu>, truesdel@ics.uci.edu (R. Scott Truesdell) writes:
>In article <1992Nov6.210201.8818@athena.mit.edu>, karen@athena.mit.edu
>(Karen E. Walrath) wrote:
>>
>> What is "spoke prep".  I have occasionally seen it in a catelog,
>> and someone mentioned it on one of the rec.bike* newsgroups.
>
>Spoke Prep is a product from WheelSmith of Palo Alto, CA. It is a viscus
>water-soluble 'soup' that acts as both a lubricant during assembly and a
>thread locking agent during riding. It is applied wet, then allowed to dry,
>leaving a coating of the stuff on the threads.
>
>
>It is moderately difficult to apply unless you build enough wheels to
>really get used to the stuff. If you get too thick a build-up it can make
>assembly and adjustment difficult and, in extreme cases, impossible,
>necessitating disassembly, cleaning, and reapplication of Spoke Prep. You
>	(Lotsa good info wiped out)
>  --scott

You talk about the stuff being a thread locking agent.  How does one true the
wheels if this stuff actually locks the threads?  You mention adjustment being
a problem if the stuff is incorrectly applied, but I would be interested in
finding out experience on adjustment with the stuff properly applied.

Another wanna-be wheel builder (when I am no longer a student scraping for
dough),

Dave
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Spoke lub defies laws of physics
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 02:16:25 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.134609.12139@ccd.harris.com> kmb@controls.ccd.harris.com (Kurt Brunton) writes:
>
>
>	For 'spoke lube' when building wheels, I've always used linsead oil. As
>it drys it turns into a varnish which acts nicely as a lock, but does not bind
>when it comes time to true the wheel.  About 5 years ago I bought a pint can for
>about US$2 and have probably built close to one hundred wheels. There's still
>enough oil left to build what I would estimate at over 10,000 more wheels. Real
>economical when compared to the price of spoke prep.

Another gem. These are the sorts of things I subscribe to the conference
for.
>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: shenry@cs.rice.edu (Sam Henry)
Subject: Re: spoke prep
Organization: Rice University, Houston
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:16:00 GMT

>In article <1992Nov6.210201.8818@athena.mit.edu>, karen@athena.mit.edu
>(Karen E. Walrath) queries:
>>
>> What is "spoke prep".  I have occasionally seen it in a catelog,

In article <truesdel-061192170228@aux-1.ics.uci.edu>
truesdel@ics.uci.edu (R. Scott Truesdell) dissertates: 

>Spoke Prep is a product from WheelSmith of Palo Alto, CA. It is a viscus
>water-soluble 'soup' that acts as both a lubricant during assembly and a
>thread locking agent during riding. ...


A useful alternative is linseed oil.


-- 
sam henry <shenry@rice.edu>
Wanna ride?
From: todd@cleo.abt.com (Todd Nix)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Summary: rebuilding Look pedals
Date: 10 Nov 92 22:23:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: cleo.BxIu79.MG7
Organization: Alternative Broadcast Technology

In <1992Nov10.182036.25947@borland.com> sjc@borland.com (Steve Correll) writes:
>Recently I asked how to disassemble a Look pedal to repack the bearings, and
>promised to post a summary. I received no answers except the useful suggestion
>that if one shoves enough fresh grease in, the dirty old grease must come out.
>I guess that's what I'll do.

Sorry, I missed your post the first time. I just redid mine last week to
get rid of this annoying clicking that had been bothering me for a while.
I kept thinking it was the BB.

Which model do you have? If they have the old end caps then you can 
dissassemble it, clean and regrease it. I don't know about the new models
without the end caps. I basically followed the instructions from the
"Bicycling Magazine Complete Guide to Bicycle Maintenance". I have the PP76.

1. remove the pedals from the crankarms
2. use some needle-nose pliers to carefully remove the end caps.
3. loosen the nut from the outside end until it is just barely on the bolt
4. tap on the nut to loosen the pedal axle until it can be pulled out
5. remove the nut and the pedal axle.
6. push out the outside bearing cartridge. the inside needle bearings
   are not removable...be sure not to damage them.
7. clean everything off with your favorite non-bio-hazardous solvent.
   soak it overnight in the same stuff.
8. wipe down and air dry everything thoroughly.
9. grease everything well. i just use the big tub of green park lard.
10. put everything back in in reverse order. be sure not to push the axle
    too far in or it will rub on the pedal body. don't mismatch the axles
    and their bolts. avoid cross threading or stripping. 
11. wipe the excess grease off the outside

now my pedals are quite and smooth. no more clicking.

point of interest. the outside bearing cartridge appears to be a 608 series.
the same as those used for inline skates. if you feel the need to replace/
upgrade them, you can easily find them at a skate shop.

>Serves me right--if I would replace my old pedals with the latest and greatest
>new ones every 9 months like I'm supposed to (Time, Sampson, Shimano SPD, etc),
>then I wouldn't have these problems. :-)

;}
-- 
Todd Nix                                                           todd@abt.com
 Movement1981-1982Power,Corruption,andLiesLowLifeBrotherhoodSubstanceTechnique
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech