HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Picking and Choosing our References
Date: 4 Sep 92 09:27:40 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Image Processing Lab

In article <12132@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> In article <95203@bu.edu>, kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
> # I'm bisexual, thanks. But for Clayton's purposes, this is the same as
> # homosexual.
> 
> If you are engaged in homosexual acts, you are a homosexual (at
> least part-time).

Then by this definition, he's also heterosexual (at least part-time).  What's
wrong with the term "bisexual", Clayton?  Doesn't it fit into your paranoid
delusions?  More proof (as if we needed it) that Clayton doesn't have a clue.

> If a man has one wife, or five wives (or vice versa), it's a little
> strange to me, but it's not a threat to public health -- unlike
> having five different sexual partners a night.

And heaven knows, *all* homosexual men are having five different sexual
partners a night.  Why, Clayton has read soc.motss--conclusive proof!
Incidentally, Clayton, if promiscuity is so much a part of homosexual
behavior, why do lesbians not have a reputation for promiscuity?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Bartholomew          |   "The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of
                          |    many things..."                  Lewis Carroll
pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov   |   Disclaimer:  Opinions?  What opinions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky ca.politics:7027 ca.environment:816 ba.politics:4748
From: jet@win30.nas.nasa.gov (J. Eric Townsend)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,ca.environment
Subject: Re: "Ecofascists" In Action
Date: 27 Aug 92 20:25:55 GMT
	<1992Aug25.130826@wsl.dec.com> <19775@fritz.filenet.com>
Organization: Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation, NASA Ames

"asylvain" == The Chipmunk <asylvain@fritz.filenet.com> writes:

asylvain> Companies move to other countries for plenty of reasons,
asylvain> cheap labor probably being the highest priority.  Other
asylvain> reasons include getting out from under restrictive
asylvain> regulations, many of which have nothing to do with the
asylvain> product.  Certainly pollution regulations probably count
asylvain> among these.

Drive along I-8 and I-10 where they almost touch Mexico and look for
the big black spots in the air... I forget the name for the factories,
but the exist just inside Mexico so that they don't have to follow US
rules, but they are close enough to the US that they don't incur extra
transportation costs...

--
             J. Eric Townsend --  jet@nas.nasa.gov -- 415.604.4311
           '91 CB750, soon to be replaced by a '92 R100R, DoD# 0378
      "Heads.  Heads.  Heads.  Heads.  Heads.  Heads." -- R & G Are Dead
From: asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: An exhortation about State Taxes
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:28:54 GMT
Reply-To: asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Distribution: ca
Organization: Foundation for the Increased Wealth of Chipmunks

Written in article <l9q8u7INNkru@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>
 by pms@fuzzy.Corp.Sun.COM (Patrick Stirling):

:	 S A V E    C A L I F O R N I A
:	==============================
: [...]
: But don't you feel a little guilty that you're not paying your 
: fair share?

: 5. If you are feeling a bit guilty and you want to do something about it,
: then send a check for any extra amount that you want, together with a
: letter explaining why, to:
:
:	 Governor Pete Wilson

Patrick, this is a joke, right?  I mean, you just forgot to sprinkle this
with "smileys," right?  You know, those little  :-)  do-hickies that let
folks know you're not serious.

PLEASE tell me this is a joke.  I'd hate to think anybody could actually
be serious this way, then have the wherewithal to connect to Usenet.

This is SCARY!  I mean, this is worse than Stephen King!  "Coming soon 
to a theater near you ... The Guilty California Taxpayer!"

Imagine, whether Patrick is kidding or not, there's probably folks out 
there who'd actually take this seriously!  And ...  and ...  and ... 
they're actually allowed to vote!

<"NO NO NO, don't open that door!  DON'T OPEN THAT DOOR!">

"SCRE-E-E-E-EAM!!"  >>CHOMP!! MUNCH!!<<  >>chew chew chew chew chew<<

<"We TOLD you!">

-- 
The Chipmunk.
Opinions are mine, void where prohibited, taxed, licensed or regulated.
No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature 
is in session.
From: asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: The Concord Principles
Date: 28 Aug 92 02:38:11 GMT
Reply-To: asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Organization: Foundation for the Increased Wealth of Chipmunks

Written in article <9208242245.AA15895@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
 by lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas):

:   *Fifth*, the new democracy tool box strengthens taxpayers who wish
: to have a say in how their tax dollars are being used and how their
: taxpayer assets are being protected.  These objectives will be
: advanced by according taxpayers full legal standing to challenge in
: the courts the waste, fraud, and abuse of tax monies and taxpayer
: assets.  Presently, the federal judiciary places nearly
: insurmountable obstacles in front of taxpayers, thereby leaving the
: task to the unlikely prospect of government officials taking their
: own government to court.

Just repeal the 16th amendment.  That'll eliminate the need.

:   Further, a facility for taxpayers banding together can be
: established by a simple taxpayer checkoff on the 1040 tax return,
: inviting taxpayers to join their national taxpayers association which
: would be accountable to members on a one member-one vote standard.

This is interesting.  Query: Is Ralph Nader trying to get HIS
organization sponsered by tax-dollars?  Right on the damn 1040 form?

Wow!  Talk about unmitigated gall!

: Finally, obscure, overly complex, mystifying jargon pervading
: federal tax, pension, election and other laws and procedures is a
: barrier to taxpayer-citizen participation.  The language of these
: laws and procedures must be simplified and clarified as a matter of
: national priority;  otherwise, only special interests hiring decoders
: will be able to participate while the general public is shut out.

Natch, nuke the 16th amendment, end of problem.

(Talk about obscure language!  The gall grows!)

-- 
The Chipmunk.
Opinions are mine, void where prohibited, taxed, licensed or regulated.
People often find it easier to be a result of the past than a cause of
the future.
From: athos@apple.com (Rick Eames)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Recall Gov. Pete Wilson
Date: 25 Aug 92 16:43:05 GMT
Followup-To: ca.politics
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Aug21.190731.7429@island.COM>, guido@island.COM (Guido
Marx) wrote:
> Calaveras County - KGO radio reporter Greg Jarett relayed a question to Wilson
> which Jarett said was asked of him by a firefighter.  The question
> was "what are you doing here when there still is no budget ?".

Um, his job?

--
Rick Eames
athos@apple.com
My opinions are my own, thank you very much!
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Subject: Re: Activist shot at Berkeley Chancellor's home
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:50:47 GMT

In article <397@vega.iii.com> rhockins@enrico.tmc.edu (Russell Hockins) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.190134.3372@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov> leem@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Lee Mellinger) writes:
>>Side handle batons come in two forms, high tensil strength aluminum
>>and high strength plastic.  I never seen nor heard of Kevlar batons
>>and I hold a POST certificate for side handle batons.
>
>Maybe Kevlar is a type of plastic, I don't know for sure.  In that event your
>high strength plastic batons may well be Kevlar.  I for one have seen one.
>They do *look* like plastic.  Maybe they have not reached civilian services
>yet.

POST = "Police Officer S<word> Training"; they have the relevant access
for the obvious reasons.

-andy
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
Xref: sparky ca.politics:7280 ca.environment:848 ba.politics:4927
From: bruce@godzilla.swdc.stratus.com (Bruce Overby)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,ca.environment,ba.politics
Subject: Re: "Ecofascists" In Action
Keywords: Pollution, Volunteerism, Environment
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:58:07 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA

In article <z!bnlta.phil@netcom.com> phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes:
>In article <p028tt0@fido.asd.sgi.com> dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>    >In article <h2=nrt-.phil@netcom.com> phil@netcom.com (Phil
>    >Ronzone) writes:
>    >
>    >>So, 1. Put the property in private ownership. 2. Sue anybody
>    >>that fucks with your property. This requires a system of
>    >>justice of course where the "sue-ee" does not coercively own
>    >>the court system.
>    >>
>    >I see one major problem with this.... If you put the property
>    >in private ownership, that owner will fuck up the bay without
>    >anyone taking them to task.
>    >
>    >Can you think of a single group which could afford to buy the
>    >bay who would be concerned with the wildlife around the bay,
>    >the quality of the water in the bay, other people polluting
>    >the bay?
>
>I think you are missing the major point. The problem is the lack of
>ownership of ALL land -- the so-called "public" land is really
>(effectively) unowned. There is nobody to take a proprietary interest,
>and nobody to be held responsible for problemns with it.
>
>

To respond to this point, let's return to the original post
on BayKeeper:

>- A BayKeeper patrol spotted a San Francisco shipyard
>discharging toxic paint and sandblasting wastes into the bay.
>Water samples taken by volunteers indicated heavy-metals
>levels hazardous to fish. The San Francisco Bay Regional
>Water Quality Control Board forced the yard to spend several
>hundred thousand dollars to eliminate its pollution.

The "public" land (in this case, the bay) *is* owned--by the
public. There *is* somebody taking a proprietary interest--the
volunteers of BayKeeper. And there *is* somebody held
responsible for the problems with it--the San Francisco Bay
Regional Water Quality Control Board, and, ultimately, the
polluters. You've got to admit, Phil, that at least in this
specific circumstance, *the system worked*.

-------------------------------------------------
Bruce Overby
Stratus Computer, Inc.
San Jose, CA


"Get at dem beans!"  -- Hoss Cartwright

My opinions may not reflect those of my employer.
--------------------------------------------------
From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Activist shot at Berkeley Chancellor's home
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:01:14 GMT

In article <397@vega.iii.com> rhockins@enrico.tmc.edu (Russell Hockins) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.190134.3372@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov> leem@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Lee Mellinger) writes:
>>In article <394@vega.iii.com> rhockins@enrico.tmc.edu (Russell Hockins) writes:
>>
>>Side handle batons come in two forms, high tensil strength aluminum
>>and high strength plastic.  I never seen nor heard of Kevlar batons
>>and I hold a POST certificate for side handle batons.
>>
>Just because you have never seen or heard of a Kevlar baton does not mean they
>do not exist. :-)
>
>Maybe Kevlar is a type of plastic, I don't know for sure.  In that event your
>high strength plastic batons may well be Kevlar.  I for one have seen one.
>They do *look* like plastic.  Maybe they have not reached civilian services
>yet.
>-- 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>| Russell Hockins             |  This civilization is recyclable             |
>| Innovative Interfaces, Inc. |                ( well most of it anyway )    |
>|                           packet : ka6foy @ ki6yk.#nocal.ca.na.usa         |

I believe that Kevlar is a form of carbon fiber-nylon alloy
that has extreme tensile strength.  But what difference does
that make? If he had had time to pull it out....it would have
been just as easy for her to take a swing at his head or
arm...in either case he wuld have died painfully. In My
Opinion....Rosebud deserved what she got.

Len

DISCLAIMER: My opinions...not my employer's

--
*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*
The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very
use of the law is the instrument of illegality.
		-- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92
Xref: sparky ca.politics:7298 talk.politics.misc:43064 ba.politics:4934
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc,ba.politics
Subject: Re: Clayton and NAMBLA
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:48:55 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <iJu8PB2w165w@batpad.lgb.ca.us>, mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us (Mike Batchelor) writes:
> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> 
> > In article <HVuLPB2w165w@batpad.lgb.ca.us>, mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us (Mike Batch
# # # # the ready availability of
# # # # NAMBLA's bulletin in gay bookstores throughout San Francisco (according
# # # # to the reports on KRON-TV a few months back).
# # # 
# # # NAMBLA's bulletin is available by US Mail.  Is the Post Office
# # # involved, too?  You've posted them to this newsgroup, so you share in
# # # the responsibility for propagating NAMBLA's views.
# # 
# # You don't honestly understand that if gay bookstores are carrying
# # it, it's because they expect to get some sales?  Do you honestly
# # not realize that carrying NAMBLA's bulletin is equivalent to carrying
# # a publication by Aryan Nations?  Do you know of any bookstores
# # that carry neo-Nazi publications without some level of agreement?
# 
# Yup.  Crown Books carries all kinds of historical volumes.  So does
# the library here in Long Beach.  Nazis, Fascists, Republicans -
# information on all kinds of oppresive regimes and movements are
# available to anyone with a buck or two.  I bought _Cyberpunk_ from the
# Computer Book Club, which describes how Robert Morris and other Evil
# Hackers perpetrated their crimes.  Does this mean that the Computer
# Book Club advocates computer crime?

I see.  _Rise and Fall of the Third Reich_ is in the same category
as a pamphlet promoting racial hatred.  Right. :-)

# Walden Books carries _Guns & Ammo_.  Does this mean they have taken an
# anti-gun control stance?  They also carry _The Whole Earth Review_.
# Are they now environmental whackos?  Lastly, they also sell the monthly
# issues of _Soldier of Fortune_, which contains advertisements for all
# kinds of recipes for mayhem - booby traps, pipe bombs, zip guns.  Does
# this mean that the Walden Books corporate honchos support and endorse
# these activities?

If they carried a magazine that promoted racial hatred and murder,
yes.

# [] Mike Batchelor -- mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
Xref: sparky ca.politics:7302 talk.politics.misc:43068
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Picking and Choosing our References
Date: 31 Aug 92 18:07:42 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <193972@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov>, pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes:
> In article <11970@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> [kane says]
# # # We understand that alright. You think that homosexuality cannot be
# # # more than just sexual love. You have the problem. And what makes you
# # # think the converse is not possible? That two men who love each other
# # # deeply will not have sex with each other?
# # # 
# # # kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,
# # 
# # I discount the idea of homosexuality being more than just sex
# # because I read soc.motss, and it's clear that at least with gay
# # men, there's nothing more than animal sex involved.  (Excuse
# # me, I'm insulting animals -- I've never seen an animal need 
# # leather, whips, or instruments of bondage to enjoy sex.  Animals
# # are also MUCH less promiscuous than soc.motss members).
# # 
# # It's also clear from looking at who is dying of AIDS in this
# # country that promiscuity is a fundamental part of being homosexual.
# # How much love can develop when the relationship takes place
# # in five hurried minutes in a gay bar restroom?
# 
# This from a man who swears that he never stoops to ad hominem attacks....

How is this an ad hominem attack?  By pointing out that the claims
of love, romance, etc. are effectively destroyed by the fetishism
and casualness of homosexual sex?  Now, if I had claimed that 
Mr. Kane engaged in these behaviors, as a way of attacking his
argument, it would be ad hominem.

# There have been readers who have been trying to get the gay community
# on Usenet to repudiate NAMBLA just so that Clayton will shut up and go
# away.  Do all of you now see that NAMBLA was never the real issue?

And they've been flamed to a crisp by the Politically Correct crowd
in soc.motss for attacking NAMBLA and what NAMBLA supports.  Shall
I reproduce some of the vicious attacks on Steve Dyer for criticizing
NAMBLA?

# Clayton is scared to death of homosexuality and will stoop to anything
# to attack it, including the lies posted above which really aren't worth
# responding to.

Shall I reproduce some of the postings from soc.motss about sex
in public restrooms (glorying in it, no less)?

# Clayton, get professional counselling; you need it badly.
# 
# Paul Bartholomew          |   "The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of

Now, THAT'S an ad hominem attack.



-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: J056600@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Asian Cop Murders White Woman in Asian Chancellor's Home
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 17:54:24 GMT

In <1992Sep4.154920.5543@ultra.com>, Wayne Hathaway writes:

>>In discussing Peoples' Park, kawakami@ocf.berkeley.edu (John Kawakami)
>>says:

>> > The homeless would, for the most part, like to see the government
>> > do something about the problem of homelessness and get themselves a
>> > home.

>>I've never seen a more succinct statement of "what's wrong with the
>>country today" than this.

Agreed.  I'm not saying that a society should do *nothing* for these people,
but really now...are they asking to become wards of the state?  That's what it
sounds like to me.

The homeless would "like to see the government do something?"  They say nothing
about helping themselves?  They say nothing about meeting us halfway and at
least trying to work their way out of it?  I want to see homeless get help, but
they have to be willing to help themselves before I want my tax dollars to
assist them in their efforts.

The first response of people these days always seems to be "the government must
do something about it!"  Sheesh.

The government's job, according to the Constitution, is basically to defend our
rights.  I'm sorry if you big-government people think that sounds too
libertarian, but that's it.  Anything else belongs at the state and local level
or requires a Constitutional amendment.  The Third Amendment is the only part
of the Bill of Rights which the government hasn't violated (yet).  Why people
want to give the government dominion over their lives is beyond me.


Tim Irvin   j056600@lmsc5.is.lmsc.lockheed.com
****************************************************************************
"In a free government the security for civil rights must be the same as that
 for religious rights." -- James Madison, Federalist #51
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Pushkin Dueling Libertarians
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:22:55 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Aug31.172749.4140@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>, urban@sideshow.jpl.nasa.gov (Michael Urban) writes:
> In article <1992Aug31.154541.27401@morrow.stanford.edu> GA.JRG@forsythe.stanford.edu (June Genis) writes:
> >Well, I can't say it's a subject I've invested a lot of time
> >thinking about, but on the surface since all parties agree to
> >participate in a duel of their own free will I see no reason that
> >libertarians would forbid such activity as long as it was
> >conducted in a way which prevented innocent third parties from
> >being endangered by the combatants.
> 
> Like their families or other dependents?
> 	
> 	Mike Urban

What evidence I have seen suggests that lawyers, judges,
and politicians were the major participants in dueling in 
19th century America and Britain.  (See Paul Johnson's
_The Birth of the Modern_ for a discussion of this subject).

As much as I weep for the dependents of duellers, it is a
voluntary action, and the class of people removed are not much
a loss to our society.


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
From: asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: The Concord Principles
Date: 27 Aug 92 23:29:31 GMT
Reply-To: asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Organization: Foundation for the Increased Wealth of Chipmunks

A lot of these "principles" are much the same kind of noise spouted by
every politician who drapes himself with the flag.  But, it has a nice
sentiment.  At any rate:

Written in article <9208242245.AA15895@echidna.swdc.stratus.com>
 by lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Len Bucuvalas):

:   *Second*, the separation of *ownership* of major societal assets
: from their *control* permits the concentration of power over such
: assets in the hands of the few who control rather than in the hands
: of the many who own.  The owners of the public lands, pension funds,
: savings accounts, and the public airwaves are the American people,
: who have essentially little or no control over their pooled assets or
: their commonwealth.
:   The American people should assume reasonable control over the
: assets they have legally owned for many years so that their use
: reflects citizen priorities for a prosperous America, mindful of the
: needs and rights of present *and* future generations of Americans to
: pursue happiness within benign environments.

I note with dismay that there is no plan mentioned for accomplishing
this, therefore I will provide one myself.

The American People should sell and/or give the ownership and control
of public resources to private individuals to do with as they please,
within constitutional and legal limits.

Comments?

-- 
The Chipmunk.
Opinions are mine, void where prohibited, taxed, licensed or regulated.
Hall's Third Law of Politics: Liberals defend military spending, and 
conservatives social spending, in their own districts.
Newsgroups: ca.politics,alt.politics.correct