From: pierson@empror.enet.dec.com (dave pierson)
Subject: Re: Steam Heat on Electric Locomotives
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date:  6 JAN 93 14:37:09    

In article <sjones.726345266@cunews>, sjones@alfred.carleton.ca (Stan Jones)
writes, in part:

>In <1if7hrINN6lp@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bw936@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gregory K.
>Ramsey) writes:

>>I'm sitting here looking at a picture of a Milwaukee Road
>>"Bipolar Electric" pulling the Olympian through some very cold
>>looking weather on my new calendar (probably a lot of you are
>>also), and I was wondering how electrics made steam for heating
>>in the days before HEP.

	All the ones i am familiar with used oil heat.  (not sure on GN).
	In part it was a matter of efficiency:  Thermal energy needed locally
	as thermal energy was best produced as thermal energy.  Less
	transformations.  Especially on the Milwaukee Road where all the
	electricty had to go through the rotaries.  The overall efficiency might
	be:
		50% (at power plant) (I'm cheating here, Milwaukee Rd mostly
					water, power, which is higher...)
		95% in transmission line & transformers
		90% in rotaries (being generous)
		95% in catenary.

	By comparison, on train, the thermal efficiency of the boiler would be
	80-90%, with relatively small losses back thru the cars.  (The power
	house figure takes hits for boiler efficiency, piping efficiency and
	alternator efficiency.

>I think it is the right one with the bipolars;
	The bipolars used oil heat.  (Neil ????, Milwaukee Rd Electrics, tells
	the story of the time the purchasing departmetn got them the wrong oil.
	Too heavy to burn...  Fireman had to spend the whole run babying the
	boiler....)

> I know it is the method used with the two Little Joes used in passenger
>service (in addition to different gearing).
	hmmm.  I'da said otherwise.  Will check, I could be wrong.  Direct
	resistance heaters were commonly used for cab heat.

>  That doesn't mean it was always sufficient,
>however.  The Woods' book on Milwaukee (Milwaukee Road West) has
>several shots of auxiliary heater cars working behind Little Joes.
	I'd bet a cookie this means no boilers on the Joes, with the heater car
	carrying the boiler.

>And for that matter, how do you think diesels generated steam for the
>heating system?
	CN (?) tried using waste heat from the engine.  Didnt make it.  Diesels
	are too efficient.  Classically, an oil fired boiler.  The manuals
	commonly show up at swap meets.  Vapor-Clarkson is a common name.

	Amtrak, nowadays, uses electric heat, from the head end power plant.

	A variant is the Budd RDC cars, which did heat, sucessfully, off the
	waste heat from the engines.  Possiblybecause they used it direct
	as hot water, rather than trying to raise steam.

I know GG1s have oil fired heat, as did NH electrics.  The original NYC
electrics (S motors) had none, thinking to get to/from GCT before the cars lost
heat.  The MU equipment was commonly (always?) direct electric, since they
didn't have to run behind steam. 

(fwiw, my Grandfather worked for Safety Car Heating & Lighting, thru the '50s.)

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
40 Old Bolton Rd		|I am the NRA.
Stow, Mass, USA	
01775				pierson@msd26.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles