From: hakim@bigq.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: The Claims of The Bab (was Refutation of Baha'i....) (Part 04/10)
Date: 4 Dec 92 14:33:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.47209
Organization: -

Continuation from part 3:

HS>After a short while, he claimed himself to be the awaited Imam (1), 
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
HS>(1) Nuqtat-ul-Kaaf (The dot of the letter Kaaf), compiled by M.J.
HS>    Kashani and E. Browne, Brill Printing House, Liden, Holland (1910);
HS>   * Panj Sha'an (Five Affairs) of Ali Muhammad Shirazi;
HS>   * Talkhise Taarikhe Nabil Zarandi, Baha'i Publications, Amri Pub.,
HS>     Tehran (1946);
HS>   * Zuhoor-ul-Haq (The appearance of the truth), p. 173.

Dr. Siddiqui, it is rather impressive that you offer so many
references, yet the references you cite clearly demonstrate that you
have not read a single one of them.  [In private conversation, the
author opines that none of the cited references, except for those
written by Muslims, support Dr. Siddiqui's conclusions.  Based on
Parts 9 and 10 in this series, the starred references are those the
author feels especially strongly are misrepresented. --rdt] Perhaps I
should respectfully request that you demonstrate your knowledge on
this issue by the virtue of quotation from these texts?!  I will be
very happy to examine each reference in detail if you wish!

HS>and later as a prophet and the bringer of a new religion (2). 
       ^^^^^
HS>(2) Nuqtat-ul-Kaaf, p. 151;
HS>   * Bayan (Expression) of Muhammad Shirazi, ch. 2, unit 2;
HS>   * Makaatib (Letters) of Abbas Afandi, vol. 11, p. 266;
HS>   * Al-Mufavedaat (Conversations) of Abbas Afandi, Brill Printing House,
HS>     Liden, Holland (1908), p. 124.

If The Bab has so clearly established His claim in the first night of
His Revelation as has already been demonstrated in the previous
replies, then what does LATER mean? Allow me to offer the quotation
from the reference in the Book of Bayan which you have cited above:

"...All [The Bab is referring to Muslims. KH] say today, `we believe in 
God, and in the signs [aayaat. KH] of the Qur'an,' whilst the Tree of 
Truth [i.e. The Bab is referring to Himself. KH], who is the Revealer of 
the Qur'an [Here the Bab is equating Himself with Prophet Muhammad. This 
was however done in The Bab's earlier work Qayyum'ul-Asma' as previously 
discussed. KH], is dwelling in this mountain (i.e. Mountain of Maku in 
Azarbayejan. KH]."
						Persian Bayan 2:2

I hope you realize that The Bab is not claiming anything new here. Perhaps
reading the previous three parts of this posting has offered you a new
perspective on Who The Bab was and what were His claims.

HS>He was not emotionally balanced, and as such, later claimed Godhood
HS>(3).

Your understanding of this issue is also on the rusty side. Let us
examine together the Writings of The Bab and determine the validity of
your opinion:

"God, hath out of sheer nothingness and through the potency of His
command, created the heavens and the earth and whatever lieth between
them. He [i.e. God. KH] single and peerless in His eternal unity with
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
none to join partner with His holy Essence, nor is there any soul,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
except His Own Self, who can befittingly comprehend Him."

					Qayyum'ul-Asma', Chapter 62
		[Selections from the Writings of The Bab, p. 62 --rdt]

Moreover;

"Indeed I am a man like unto you. However, God bestoweth upon Me
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
whatever favours He willeth as He pleaseth [Reference to Qur'an
14:13], and that which your Lord hath decreed in the Mother Book is
unbounded."
					Qayyum'ul-Asma', Chapter 88

In His Epistle addressed to Muhammad Shah, the King of Persia, He
Writes:

"The substance wherewith God hath created Me is not the clay out of
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
which others have been formed. He hath conferred upon Me that which
the worldly-wise can never comprehend, nor the faithful discover."

The above verses will hopefully offer you a different perspective on
this issue. There is no claim of Godhood in the Writings of The Bab.
Perhaps it is your literalistic approach to the Writings of The Bab
which has made you to conclude in such a manner. I feel that I should
remind you that any of the Messengers of God Who claimed to something
PERCEIVED contrary to the common belief have been ridiculed according
to the testimony of the Qur'an.

"Consider the past. How many, both high and low, have, at all times,
yearningly awaited the advent of the Manifestations of God in the
sanctified persons of His chosen Ones. How often have they expected
His coming, how frequently have they prayed that the breeze of divine
mercy might blow, and the promised Beauty step forth from behind the
veil of concealment, and be made manifest to all the world. And
whensoever the portals of grace did open, and the clouds of divine
bounty did rain upon mankind, and the light of the Unseen did shine
above the horizon of celestial might, they all denied Him, and turned
away from His face - the face of God Himself. Refer ye, to verify this
truth, to that which hath been recorded in every sacred Book.

"Ponder for a moment, and reflect upon that which hath been the cause
of such denials on the part of those who have searched with such
earnestness and longing. Their attack hath been more fierce than
tongue and pen can describe. Not one single Manifestation of Holiness
hath appeared but He was afflicted by the denials, the repudiation,
and vehement opposition of the people around Him. Thus it hath been
revealed: `O the misery of men!  No Messenger cometh unto them but
they laugh Him to scorn.' [Qur'an 36:30] Again He saith: `Each nation
hath plotted darkly against their Messenger to lay violent hold on
Him, and disputed with vain words to invalidate the truth.' [Qur'an
40:5]
	Baha'u'llah, Ketab-ul Iqan [a.k.a. Kitab-i-Iqan --rdt], pp. 4-5

						Part 4 of 10