HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bobp@cherise.UUCP (Robert Parkinson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: Ear Monitors
Keywords: Ear Monitors
Date: 10 Dec 92 16:39:12 GMT
Reply-To: bobp@cherise.UUCP (Robert Parkinson)
Organization: S&R Software, Incorporated

In article <Dec10.020200.32151@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> mas@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mark Scialdone) writes:
>Hey All,
>
>Wed McNix for ex) are they also in the dark? Have the plusses of
>this new monitor system really outweighed the minuses?

>How comfortable is it to have one of these monitors in your ear?

They are very comfortable. Back when I was a linguist, the
organization I worked for had me fitted for a pair. The way
they do it is they inject some goop into your outer ear to
take a mold, then when it hardens they pop the molds out
and make the phones. The advantage over normal headphones
for my work was huge - no transient/ambiant noise, and
it's really easy to pick out tiny little sounds lost in the
background (for those of you who might have done similar
work, you know what I mean). Best of all, you can wear
them for hours and hours without discomfort.

They were also OK for music.

bob
bobp@sandr.com
From: hudson@csa3.lbl.gov (ERIC HUDSON)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: 12-16-92 details
Date: 17 Dec 1992 10:21 PST
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

I se the set list has been posted, but I wanted to add some notes and
impressions--

SET I:
We didn't make a positive ID, but it seemed like Jerry was playing slide 
on That Same Thang.  Is this unusual?
Let It Grow was a highlight. The energy level was high, but that was only
the beginning...

SET II:
The opening really blew us away.  Shakedown had some of the craziest jams
I've ever heard from the boys.  Likewise, Samson was very fiery--Jerry in
particular was tearing it up.  He had a rougher edge on his guitar than 
usual, I think.  The crowd seemed very focused--everyone was riding these
jams.  
Drums ended in an unusual way--Mickey got the Beam resonating and left the
stage.  So the stage was empty, but the music continued.  Either the Beam
has learned to play itself (which is possible) or Healy was fooling with
it.  Whatever it was, I liked it, and after about 1 min. of this 
Jerry started playing along with it, into Space.
Watchtower was another highlight, for me.  Stella was beautiful--Jerry's 
leads were perfect. A rousing Good Love to end one of the best second sets
I've ever witnessed. They were all playing well last night.  At some
times, Weir's guitar was loud enough to be noticeable, and well worth hearing!


Casey Jones was a real crowd-pleaser.  I think the entire audience was singing
along, actually louder than the boys at the beginning.

OK that's why I keep going to shows!

===============================

ERIC HUDSON			"Tomorrow Never Knows"

HUDSON@LBL.BITNET


Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: Jeff Lester <lester@gandalf.etdesg.trw.com>
Subject: Re: seafood
Reply-To: lester@gandalf.etdesg.trw.com
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:45:37 GMT

|andrejkow asks:
|
|>Does anyone know of A Show which contained ANY references to shellfish,
|>crustaceons, or just plain old seafood?  Even between-song banter or
|>"jokes" would be of interest. 
|
|I can't recall the date or venue (I bet Jeff Lester can sort this one out),
|but someplace in my collection is a tape with Weir asking the audience,
|
|"What do you get when you cross a pig with an octopus?"
|
|I'll leave y'all to think about the answer,

A football that plays catch with itself. I know I have it someplace, but
damn if I can remember where. Probably something from '70 or '71. It's a 
good one, but my favorite is still the brick story.

-Jeff Lester

Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: pstevens@well.sf.ca.us (Paul Stevens)
Subject: Tickets for 12/16 and 12/17 available
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Distribution: ba
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:50:02 GMT


I have one ticket for each of 12/16 and 12/17 available.  Do not reply to
this account.
I can be reached at pstevens@metaphor.com (415)966-0384 or at home at
(408)336-3157
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: bill@isl.Stanford.EDU (Bill Moore)
Subject: One Thursday ticket available
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 19:14:16 GMT

I'll sell ya one mailorder ticket for tonight's show at cost.
Call me at work in Palo Alto: 415-496-6551

Bill
From: kmalmber@ub.d.umn.edu (kenneth malmberg)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: JGB - SS
Date: 12 Dec 1992 10:04:18 -0600
Organization: University of Minnesota, Duluth
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu

Does anyone remember if the JGB was using a similar moniter/earplug set up at
thee Halloween shows.

It seems to me that the initial sound problems associated with the beginning
of Grateful Dead shows, is not present at JGB shows.

Who is the soundperson for the JGB?
From: rainbow@ubu.Eng.Sun.COM ()
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: awesome light show
Date: 14 Dec 1992 18:29:14 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: rainbow@ubu.Eng.Sun.COM ()
NNTP-Posting-Host: ubu


Highlight of last night's show for me was the light show!
We sat behind the tapers, looking straight on to the stage,
and man, it was awesome.

Did anyone else seem to notice that they moved the stage?  (-:
I mean for real, they seem to have extended it forward about
10-20 feet - might this have to do with the lighting props and such?
In any case, the usual section we sit in,224, seemed to give an
unusually side sight line onto the band, so we moved behind the tapers
and wow that space ship realy took off - especially during Mickey's
drum-rage.

Cheers,

Rainbow

--
"Anyone who considers arithmatical methods of producing
random digits is, of course, in a state of sin"
			  -Norman
From: jfw@neuro.duke.edu (John F. Whitehead)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: USA Today 12/17/92: Deadheads & LSD
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:54:40 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

There is a full page on LSD, Deadheads, and the Grateful Dead in today's
USA Today.  Section A, page 11, has three articles.

The topic (USA Today has topics, such as "Washington and the World",
"The Nation", etc.) is "GRATEFUL DEAD FOLLOWERS".  The overall headline
is "Attack on Deadheads [by the DEA] is no hallucination".

The longest article, "Band's followers handed stiff LSD sentences",
talks to Deadheads in jail, DEA agents, and related people.  It includes
a quote from the head of LSD enforcement at the DEA: "We've opened up
a vein here.  We're going to mine it until this whole thing turns around."
The DEA has tripled spending, personnel, and arrests for LSD since
January 1990.  USA Today cites some of the more than 30 Deadhead LSD
cases they investigated, finding that Deadheads' "musical tastes,
dress and lifestyle" have been used against them in the criminal justice
system.  From being pulled over for having GD stickers, to being refused
bond for having a RAMBROSE license plate, to being labeled as "gang-
affiliated" in prison and being locked up with Bloods and Crips, to
an absence of plea bargains, Deadheads are seriously discriminated against
in the court system.

The most shocking article is on the disparities of LSD sentences,
because an LSD dealer is sentenced on the weight of the entire LSD
drug *carrier*.  Thus, if you are caught with 100 hits of pure LSD,
worth $100 (and weighing a hundredth of a gram), you'll get sentenced
to 10 months in jail.  If it's on blotter paper, you'll get 5 years,
or, god forbid, on sugar cubes, 16 years.  For comparison, if you
commit armed burglary, you'll get 2-1/2 years.  If you kidnap someone
or steal $80 million, you'll get 5 years.  Rape?  7 years.  Attempted
murder?  8 years.  You don't even get 10 years for $100,000 of heroin.
This is all because the drug laws meant to apply to just the quantity
of the drug, not the carrier, but didn't say so.  Reagan got the
Supreme Court to allow the disparity to stand and Congress hasn't
clarified the law.
       
There's an inset that has "A Primer of Drug Action"'s LSD effects
listed, which is fair ("[no] physical damage... no overdoses").
	  
Finally there's an article on the band that interviews Dennis McNally.
He advises Deadheads to be as invisible as possible.
	     
On a humorous note, the full page advertisement opposite these articles
is a full color, long-haired and -bearded hippie doing yoga (an ad for
Tab).

-- 
 ________________________________________________________________________
|   John      jfw@neuro.duke.edu          Duke University Medical Center |
| Whitehead   jfw@well.sf.ca.us           Department of Neurobiology     |
|________________________________________ Durham, North Carolina ________|
From: schiesel-seth@yale.edu (Seth Schiesel)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: personal to ERIC J. SIMON
Date: 16 Dec 1992 12:14:17 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

Thanks for your message; I tried to reply but SIMON@XTALO.BITNET just
doesn't seem to want to work for me. I tried two different mailers and
both said unknown host or some such. Mail me back if you know what's up
or if you have another route or address.
-Seth
-- 
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
I Seth Schiesel            "The bottle was dusty but the liquor was clean" I
I schiesel-seth@yale.edu                                    -Robert Hunter I
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: SCM2232@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu
Subject: Terrapin Tapes
Reply-To: SCM2232@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:41:14 GMT

Could someone E-mail me (at my address-no need to post the entire .net)
the address for Terrapin Tapes???  Thanks in advance!

-Cale Miller scm2232@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu

P.S.  Also, would it be possible to send the price list as well (for
audio tapes only - they sell video too, don't they?)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: "PLEASE WORK FOR ME TONIGHT, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE" <kirkman@kenyon.edu>
Subject: dead-flames
Reply-To: kirkman@kenyon.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:39:19 GMT

please add me to ALL dead related mailings
            
   Kirkman@vax001.kenyon.edu

thanx much
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: BGILLESPIE%COLGATEU.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu
Subject: The Record X
Reply-To: BGILLESPIE%COLGATEU.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:54:10 GMT

The Record Exchange is the greatest music store in the world!!!!!
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: LANDO <DBECHTOL@pearl.tufts.edu>
Subject: Harder they come
Reply-To: DBECHTOL@pearl.tufts.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 16:26:49 GMT

Jimy Cliff came to Tufts University here in Boston this fall. He rocked out. So did we. It was a smokin' show.                      

    -Lando
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: rbalko@attmail.com ()
Subject: Re: Branford ?
Organization: AT&T GBCS S&PD FS/SI Dev MPS
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:21:56 GMT
Summary: Pop Ephemora

Joe Germuska said>:
And the other hupersonoid said>>:
>
>>As a filler on a recent tape I got is Branford and the boys
>>doing an INCREDIBLE Harder They Come.  It was labled as

	.
	.
	.
>My guess is that it's Clarence Clemons, who toured with Jerry in 1989, to
>very nice effect.  Can't name any shows that that'd be from, but that's the
>only sax guest I can think of with JGB.
>
>Later,
>	Joe
>-- 
>|   Joe Germuska   |   j-germuska@nwu.edu   |   (708) 869-0354   |

Could be 9/9/89 Great Woods, BTW what's the vibes sounding thing
they play on this tune??  This was a Great Show, BobNRob opened
(still looking for a copy of that show) go there sometime if you can.

Rob
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: Dan Luther <dmluthr@sdrc.com>
Subject: d
Reply-To: dmluthr@sdrc.com
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:03:11 GMT


Steve -- The Other One <sjeck@isi.com> Writes:

| from the SF Chronicle, Dec 15,1992 in Herb Caen's column:

| "Sodden thought: With Jerry Garcia losing weight and 
| turning vegetarian, can "The Grateful Dead Exercise Video"
| be far behind?"

I can just see it now:

	"Fat Fade Away"
	"Jumping Jacks Flash"		--> a new stones cover
	"Touch Your Gray Toes"
	"Dancing In The Streets" 	--> the 'regulur' aerobics portion
	"Crazy Finger Exercizes"
	"Walkin' Blues"
	"The Weight"			--> some muscle bulking routines
	"Step Aerobics on the Moon"	--> the 'step' aerobics portion


Etc.

Aiko!

Dan Luther	dan.luther@sdrc.com



Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: IWS%ssmic@cdfq.ssd.ray.com
Subject: Bob Hunter's "Idiot's Delight"
Reply-To: IWS%ssmic@cdfq.ssd.ray.com
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:01:47 GMT


Robert Hunter's newest book, "Idiot's Delight", can be likened to a
Grateful Dead concert.  It's a trip for the mind.  Maybe it should be
read it with "Dark Star" or "Infrared Roses" or maybe your favorite
"drums/space" humming in the background.  This book of verse starts
off with some interesting introductions and premises about a dinner,
tells of the host who serves 'idiot's delight', and allegorizes that
to the emotions of want and desire.  From there, Hunter starts to word
jam - two or three sentences per page, each a philosophical insight
into life and it's condition, as observed by Mr. Hunter.  All very
interpretable.  Many very think-provoking.  Hunter must have written
down those thoughts, those flashes, those peeks that we all get from
time to time, put them in a pile, and by chance, pulled them out and
put them in the middle sections of the book.  By page 96, he's telling
us: "Thought is a vine & seeks that to which it might attach.  Vine
may seek vine but cannot engage it as it can a tree, trellis, fence,
or a flagpole." 

I read that to my love, and she replies "That's not true.  Tell your
friend to take a walk in the woods someday."   She's a gardener and
knows of these things.  "What do you mean?" I ask, "Vines can climb
up vines - I've seen this while collecting materials for my baskets."
"Vines almost never willingly climb up vines." she replies.  "They
prefer trees.  But I do see his point."  And I see his point, too. 

Hunter continues, and like at all concerts, he plays for us that song
that tells us that we'd better start having fun if we haven't had fun
already, because the show is just about over:  "A wandering device - 
I've said my piece & wish to shut up & repaint the sky but this work
requires exact count of verses.  Eight more to be precise."  Eight more
it is, and it's over.  Too soon?  Perhaps.  Or maybe just in time...

"Idiot's Delight" is published by Hanuman Books.  It's a small book,
about the size of a cassette tape box.  There are eleven sections,
each with eleven verses.  The cover has a photo of Bob Hunter, his
chin resting on his hand, with an expression that I'm not sure if
he's smiling or sad.  The book itself is printed in Madras, India.
It resembles a prayer book, though when I took off the slipcase and
saw the red cover, I thought to myself "The Sayings of Chairman Bob".

If you can't find Hunter's book "Idiot's Delight" in your bookstore,
you can order it for $5.95 plus $1.00 s&h from:  Hanuman Books, P.O.
Box 1070, Old Chelsea Station, New York, NY, 10113.  Hanuman Books
specializes in these small books, and besides Hunter's, they have quite
a selection:  Richard Hell, Jack Kerouac, Willem de Kooning, and the
gospel speeches of Bob Dylan, among others. 

Enjoy it - Ihor		iws@ssmic.ssd.ray.com
From: andrew@marie.physik.tu-berlin.de (Andrew Shields)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: USA Today, 12/17/92, Page 11A
Date: 18 Dec 1992 14:36:56 GMT
Organization: ZRZ/TU-Berlin
NNTP-Posting-Host: marie.physik.tu-berlin.de

In <1992Dec18.131047.13196@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> ajm@bigcat.bellcore.com (Tony Merolla) writes:

>In article <102522@netnews.upenn.edu>, joels@gradient.cis.upenn.edu (Joel Schneier) writes:
>|> Just goes to show, its not so wise to try and make a living vending
>|> acid at dead concerts.  Spend your money on jewelry instead!!!!!!!!!!

>What surprised me more than anything was the comparison of mandatory
>minimum sentences for different offenses. LSD possession beat rape
>and kidnapping! 

That really is sick, isn't it?  Didn't someone say something about
Joe Biden commenting on this in the MacPaper article?  Maybe  we
could start a campaign pointing out that this is a little weird,
since, as far as I know, people don't have a tendency to violence
and abduction while on LSD (at least in my experience - has anyone
ever heard of any such event?  :-)  )

Andrew
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: Brick joke 
From: jlovkay@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 18 Dec 92 12:59:53 EST
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <1992Dec18.154555.22219@uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU>, SCM2232@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu writes:
> The show w/ the really dumb (but none-the-less classic Bob cheese) brick
> joke was I believe a '69 (can't remember the exact date) show in Queens,NY.
> At the same show, Phil says something about the band being "space niggers".
> (Whatever that means;-)
> 

I don't know, maybe I should have my sense of humor checked ;), but I think
this is one my favorite jokes !

I'll look for it over the weekend and type it in if I can find it, its GREAT!

I don't think I've ever heard another joke where the punch line comes from what
had seemed to be a separate joke, the way Weir ties the brick to the poodle and
cigar story is amazing ! Maybe it only works because Bob can get away with
telling the first part and no one thinks it odd that there really is no punch
line !

Silly Bob :)

Jim

Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: rar6811@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Boston
Reply-To: rar6811@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:32:00 GMT

Hey There:

I'm going to Boston for the weekend and would like some suggestions for
anything happening this weekend.  Mabey a good loal band or some good
bars to hang out at.  I would also like to do some Christmas shopping, so
if yopu could reccomend some interesting stores to visit that would also 
be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Rob R.
From: kmalmber@ub.d.umn.edu (kenneth malmberg)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: What is 'jonesing'
Date: 11 Dec 92 07:02:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: ub.1gaokfINNbui
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Minnesota, Duluth
NNTP-Posting-Host: ub.d.umn.edu

In my circle of friends 'jonesing' is the opposite of 'pimping'.

One is either pimping ('I'm pimping because I'm seeing the Dead next week').
vs.
One is jonesing (I'm jonesing becase my boss is making work instead of seeing
the Dead.)
From: mjwagner@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Mike Wagner)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: irc -- dead conferenc
Date: 14 Dec 92 13:41:27 GMT
Organization: CS Dept, Ball St U, Muncie, Indiana
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Michael.Wagner@f182.n103.z1.fidonet.org writes:
: MW> Organization: CS Dept, Ball St U, Muncie, Indiana
: MW> From: mjwagner@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Mike Wagner)
: MW> Message-ID: 3223@bsu-cs.bsu.edu
: MW> Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
: 
:         Uh... I've gotten used to weird stuff on the bus,
:         but... do I *know* you??????????

this is wierd.  you have to know me tho because I am you.

how are you mike?  this mike is fine, but of course you already know that.
we		are		just		too		wierd ;)

Mike (from indiana) Wagner

ps: we should get some trades going...would be extra funky to trade tapes with
    myself

		...to much of everything is just enough...
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: cjmcdona@mothra.syr.EDU (Crispin J. Mcdonald)
Subject: Re: HELP! Net withdrawl
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 12:36:03 EST

In article <1992Dec18.105545.21116@newstand.syr.edu> cjmcdona@mothra.syr.EDU (Crispin J. Mcdonald) writes:
>Normally I just lurk but I've been forced to post in order to lurk - argh!
>

Sorry about the last post I seem to be having a bad computer day! :-(

What the original post said is that we seem to have lost access to all News
feeds other than local so I have not seen anything posted since 12-14.
If there is any KIND soul out there who would be willing to pass along any
setlist/reviews of the shows after 12/12 I would be most Grateful!

I would also be interested in any posts reguarding tape trees of any of 
the recent shows.

Peace
Crispin
From: graff@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Eugene M Graff)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: Grateful Dead Hour #219
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:08:42 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

Groveler looking for tape of this GDH--gotta hear Hey Jude! Unfortunately for me it's the end of the school semester and with a lengthy commute, GDH comes on mush to late in the NYC area--12 midnight. I usually tape, but on the night in question I was unable to do so. Can anyone help? Thanks in advance from a Grateful Gene--Dizzying, the possibilities...
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: brown@sunspot.noao.edu (Todd Brown)
Subject: Re: MSG '92
Organization: National Solar Observatory/SP, Sunspot NM, USA
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 19:17:41 GMT

In article <7864@news.duke.edu> jgw@acpub.duke.edu (JAMES WELCH) writes:
>
>JDAMBER1@ithica.bitnet writes:
>
>>                   Does anyone have MSG 9/13/92
>>and/or 9/18/92........I NEED these shows!!!!!!! Please if anyone can help
>
>Good luck :-)  The Dead specifically prohibited taping at these shows so I doubt it if you will be able to find tapes :-)
>
>Jim
>

Did I miss these shows? I thought I was keeping track of all this
stuff and something slipped by me!

:-) :-) :-)

I'm sure everyone wishes they had these, these were truely STEALTH
shows:-)
>P.S.  But if anyone does have a copy of these shows I'll put my grovel in now :-)  :-)  :-)
Me TOO! I love miracles:-) :-) ;-)
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>TODD|-ODD-|:-)                   |         Nothing Left To Do But  <
>brown@sunspot.sunspot.noao.edu  /|\             :-) :-) :-)        <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>/ | \<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: TDM@ECL.PSU.EDU (Truman D Mast)
Subject: Re: Viola Lee writer
Organization: Penn State Engineering Computer Lab
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 22:38:13 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

In <102294@netnews.upenn.edu> joels@gradient.cis.upenn.edu writes:

> On the respective albums on which they appear, VLB and BigRR are
> credited to Noah Lewis.  Is this a pseudonym?  Does anyone know of
> other artists recorded versions of these songs?
> 
> Joel Schneier

There is a version of "Viola Lee Blues" played by Richard Thompson,
Ralph McTell, Dave Mattacks and Dave Pegg (as "The GP's").  It appears
on the CD "Saturday Rolling Around" (Woodworm Records, England).
They called the song "Penetentiary Bound," and I believe they credit
it to "traditional" or "anonymous" (perhaps mistakenly).

Richard, Dave and Dave were in Fairport Convention.  Dave and Dave still
are.  The Fairport stuff is well worth checking out, by the way.

Doug.