From: dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson)
Subject: Re: Who cares what whites think about racism ?
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:54:21 GMT

In article <s018VB1w163w@peewee> peewee@infoserv.com (Philip Stromer) writes:
>	>In article <1h83s2INN91l@meaddata.meaddata.com>, 
>	>jeb3@meaddata.com (Jennifer Bing) writes:
>
>	>It is obvious in this newsgroup that whites don't care what 
>	>blacks think about racism anyway. 
>	
>Look in the mirror, Jennifer.  You just made a RACIST statement.  You        
>have just lumped "whites" into one category.  That's like me saying
>"blacks are drug dealers", because perhaps one black person somewhere
>is a drug dealer.  You're doing the same thing Dowdy did.
>	
Oh!!!! Whats the point !

>	>What I keep hearing is there is no real racism anymore.  
>	
>Sure there's racism.  Everyone has SOME racism in his/her heart, but        
>we need to fight through it.  When the effort is not even made, the
>problem stagnates.  That's been my point from square one.
>
OK I'll give you this one. The point is is that many people don't fight
through it.

>
>Yeah, and by doing so, he implicitly implied that I, as a white man,
>do NOT know.  That's a bunch of hooey.
>
So do you know how a women who has been raped must feel ? You must since
you know what its like to experience something eventhough you haven't
experienced it .

>	>How many blacks do you know that have shared their trials with 
>	>you?
>
>Let's see, there's my wife Dianne, her four brothers and sisters, their
>husbands and wives, her 30 or so relatives that I spent weeks with in
>1989 when her mother died.  I've got about 10 other black friends that
>I play sports with and have known for over 15 years.  Surely you're
>not going to tell me that these people have NOTHING they can share
>with me, that I'm capable, as a white man, of learning about.
>
Ohhhhh.. I see. Since you are married to an AfAm you MUST know what its
like to be an AfAm.... I also guess that spending time with at least 30 or
perhaps 40 AfAms means that you now know what its like to be an AfAm.
Boy, you sure have taught me alot. I guess spending time with 40 pilots
means that I know what its like to fly an airplane. Hell, United should
hire me next week.

>	
>Living with a black wife and being the father of a mulatto boy gives me
>at least SOME clue.  I get drifts of racism here and there, and not
>only from whites, but surprise, surprise, from blacks too.  About 80%
>of the people we meet are cool (all colors), and 20% are total bigots.
>
Mulatto ???? Every Afam in this country who has roots in slavery could say
that he/she is mulatto. I can tell you this, when your child runs into
some white person, who doesn't know that his father is white, will probably
see him as a black man.....

>	>Well until you are born black and live in this country as a 
>	>black you will never understand what racism does to blacks. 
>
>So you're saying that every white person should not even TRY to under-
>stand the problem, since none of us are ever going to be re-born.  I'm
>sorry you have such a pessimistic view, but you sure don't speak for
>Dianne and her family.  They'll call you a "whiner", a "crybaby" and
>every other name you've seen me bandy about in this newsgroup.  BTW,
>they're all very dark-skinned.  Not light-skinned Iman lookalikes.
>
Ohhhh. Once again you have educated me. So if not every single AfAm
agrees with what every other AfAm says, then that invalidates the 
opinion of the many other AfAms.... Not all of the slaves embrassed the
end of slavery with open arms, so I guess that somehow invalidates the
other AfAms who wanted to see the end of slavery ?

>	>If I or Dowdy Jackson, or any other person could wave a magic 
>	>wand an cause everyone in the world to be non-racist I think 
>	>they would if they were on the receiving end of racism. 
>	
>Sure, and if I could wave this magic wand, I'd wish for a million $$$.        
>But that's looking through rose-colored glasses.  All I asked for was
>a CONSTRUCTIVE criticism to today's problem, and I'm still waiting.
>	
We are still waiting for you to give one as well.

>	>I don't have any control over how you or anybody else views 
>	>blacks. 
>	
>Nor do I have any control over how you view whites.  But what I *can*
>do is search for some sort of middle ground.  A good way to start is
>by stopping the stereotypes.
>
Agreed !!!

>	>you want a suggestion.  Here's one.  Why don't all you racist 
>	>stop it.  It's not nice.
>
>Speaking of not nice, calling me a racist is not nice.  You don't know
>anything about me, yet you call me a racist.  I've done much community
>work in East Palo Alto, rehabilitating drug addicts, taking time out
>of my own life, asking nothing in return.  I'm glad I fall into your
>category of "racists", because I was born with white skin, I'll die
>with white skin, and there's nothing I can do about it.  I refuse to
>feel "ashamed" of it.  I'm not responsible for slavery of 150 years
>ago.  Also, I enjoyed "Gone With The Wind."  So there.

But Phil... You have done the same thing.. You call people things
just because you feel like they fit a certain description.

>
>If you want to talk about racism, you can start with Louis Farrakhan.        
>He's buddy-buddy with KKK Grand Dragon Tom Metzger, yet I've seen
>precious few blacks criticize him, just because he has black skin.
>When blacks crawl into bed with the KKK, I'm at wit's end.  When        
>blacks accept a black man as a leading spokesman when he embraces
>a KKK Grand Dragon, I wonder if the battle against racism is even
>WORTH fighting.

Well this is your opinion. I don't care if you choose to fight against
racism or not. I am more concerned with helping other AfAms succeed in
this country.

>
>	>Please tell me that's [slavery] not your only criteria for 
>	>being a racist.
>
>No, of course it isn't.  But you paint the "racist" tarbrush over any
>white person you choose, without even bothering to find out anything
>about him or her.  You're as bad as Dowdy.  Please tell me that you 
>don't think you or anyone else is above having the ability to hold 
>racist views.

You did it again ! I guess since you are an all knowing white man, I guess
you know that I am a pretty awful person eventhough you have never met
me. I guess any AfAm who says that he/she doesn't like seeing their people
being mistreated and disrespected is a black racist. Well if thats your
definition then thats what I am to you. I haven't called you a racist
directly eventhough your views say otherwiese.

>
>--Philip Stromer (peewee@infoserv.com)