HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cberlet@igc.apc.org (NLG Civil Liberties Committee)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Apology for Chip Berlet
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:39:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:18DEC199223184444@acad3.alaska.e:29256161:cdp:1299600165:000:352
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!cberlet    Jan 26 19:39:00 1993



I have read LaRouche, and I have read Spengler. LaRouche echoes Spengler.
LaRouche's economic policies are a shabby theft of Italian syndicalist
fascism combined with a lot of pure baloney. I like some, but not all, of
Arendt's writing. I do not subscribe to the Frankfurt school's overall
views. I don't care who Arendt slept with. Why do you?
-Chip
From: aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Yale Law One-World Government?
Date: 21 Jan 1993 08:00:17 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Peter Nelson suggests that it is natural for leaders to share such
indicators as high incomes and well-connected families. This is true
in an aristocratic state, but certainly falls a ways short of the 
democratic ideal according to which a common person, such as Lincoln, 
could rise to power with minimal or zero suppport from the power
brokers. Peter further suggests that the "natural" tendency to want 
to discus matters of "common interest" in a private setting is a far
cry from conspiracy. To the contrary, it is a precise description of
conspiratorial behavior.

-Steve
From: cberlet@igc.apc.org (NLG Civil Liberties Committee)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz/CFR/Trilaterals
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:19:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:1jvvqjINNd53@usenet.ins.cwru.edu:1752109756:cdp:1299600163:000:792
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!cberlet    Jan 26 19:19:00 1993



A serious book about the political goals of the Trilateral Commission is
by Holly Sklar, who warns about confusing political influence and power
with conspiratorial analysis and conjecture. She also considers Gritz and
the Populist party/Liberty Lobby crowd to be bigots.

Hard criticism of the Trilateralists or CFR is not related automatically
to bigotry against Jews. Acting as a gullible apologist for Gritz makes you
guilty of helping spread bigotry. Please present some facts in this discussion,
rather than claims that cannot be evaluated or comments that have no factual
basis. We have repeatedly presented facts showing statements by Gritz that are
anti-Jewish, and his close working relationship with racist and fascist
groups. Why are you unable to accept the facts?
-Chip Berlet
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller)
Subject: Re: What the Trilateralists truly intend
Organization: Trinity College, Hartford, CT.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:53:41 GMT

In article <1k3qcdINNmui@im4u.cs.utexas.edu> lwb@cs.utexas.edu (Lance W. Bledsoe
) writes:

>Yes, this is fairly common.  Some people (aka Steve) invest their precious
>time trying to fix the situation.  Other people (Norman) find it hard to
>argue with these people on an intellectual basis, so they resort to
>cheap shots and name calling.
>
Intellectual?  Did you say i n t e l l e c t u a l ?

Now then: intellectuals.  I've never had too much faith in them
(le trahison des clercs and all that) but I've never met one yet
who violate the rules of logical inference as routinely as do
LaRouche's groupies.  Maybe Lance can produce a counter-list.
I'd love to see it.

Norman Miller
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.jewish
From: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller)
Subject: Re: Jewish Bankers
Organization: Trinity College, Hartford, CT.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:51:23 GMT

In article <1k1jf7INNhmf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John
W. Redelfs) writes:
>
>Do you admit the possibility, Ted, that there might be a multicultural
>banking Mafia?  If there is no evidence that there is one, is there any
>evidence that there is not one?
>

John Redelfs, who specializes in genteel anti-Semitism, has nevertheless
come to the right forum with this piece of logic.

Lifney chatoeynu harabim..

Norman Miller

Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: What the Trilateralists truly intend
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:50:10 GMT
Organization: Trinity College, Hartford, CT.

In article <1993Jan25.062730.2960@news.ysu.edu> ad626@yfn.ysu.edu (Steve Crocker) writes:
>
>
> I have been a political
>supporter of Lyndon LaROuche for about 15 years, and during that time I
>would estimate I have read about 50-80% of his published work, as well
>as much material written by his associates. 

Now I understand what I should have realized from the
start.  15 years!  Enough to pickle anybody's brains.
In common charity I shall no longer trouble Steve.

Norman Miller
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May)
Subject: Re: Conspiracy books
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 02:03:43 GMT

John W. Redelfs (cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu) wrote:

: The only one I've read of these three is Vankin.  It had a lot of useful
: bibliography and had quite a bit of material on the Birchers, LaRouche,
: Discordians, JFK, but nothing on the Moonies.i
: 
: I felt the book tended to make the whole field look ridiculous by
: including quite a lot of material on such subjects as UFOs, floridation,
: Laetrile, etc.

The Moonies own the publishing house that published Vankin's book, so
the absense of material on the Unification Church is perhaps not
surprising.


-- 
..........................................................................
Timothy C. May         | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
tcmay@netcom.com       | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
408-688-5409           | knowledge, reputations, information markets, 
W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA  | black markets, collapse of governments.
Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: waiting for the dust to settle.

Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293)
Subject: Re: Repost: "The Insiders" part 3 of 4
Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293)
Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:40:36 GMT

In article <1jkn1jINNkn3@im4u.cs.utexas.edu>, lwb@cs.utexas.edu (Lance W. Bledsoe) writes:
> In article <1993Jan19.184001.29672@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
> >Didn't you just post this nonsense a week ago?
> >
> >If you bother to *read* the Sidney Blumenthal article, it's fairly
> >clear that he's being ironic.
> 
> Didn't *YOU* just post *THIS* nonsense a week ago?
> 
Thanks for reposting the Insiders article Lance. Some of us missed parts of
it first time around.



Steve
-- 
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)  
Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome  
Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: +44 81 869 3293  JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.individualism,alt.censorship,misc.headlines,soc.culture.usa,misc.activism.progressive
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Yale Law One-World Government?
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:31:06 GMT

In article <1jocufINN8p6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker) writes:
>
>Ted, I'm curious. Have you actually SEEN a copy of the Yale Law 
>Alumni list, or has your characterization of it and comparison
>with the CFR membership 
>been based simply on speculation.

Hey, Yale Law had a party for the inauguration in Washington, hundreds
of miles from their home base in New Haven.  The First Lady, among others,
was in attendance.

I didn't see the CFR there.

You make the call.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
From: rburns@StarConn.com (Randall J. Burns)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Conspiracy books
Date: 27 Jan 93 00:42:51 GMT
Organization: Starnet-Public Access UNIX--Los Altos, CA  415-949-3133

In article <1k30b1INNe9b@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs) writes:
>
>In a previous article, pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce) says:
>
>>Are any of these books worth reading?

>>    _Architects of conspiracy : an intriguing history_ by William P.
>>    Hoar, (Boston : Western Islands), 1984.

>>    _Architects of fear : conspiracy theories and paranoia in American
>>    politics_ by George Johnson, (Los Angeles : J.P. Tarcher), 1983.

>>    _Conspiracies, cover-ups, and crimes : political manipulation and
>>    mind control in America_  by Jonathan Vankin, (New York : Paragon
>>    House), 1991.

>The only one I've read of these three is Vankin.  It had a lot of useful
>bibliography and had quite a bit of material on the Birchers, LaRouche,
>Discordians, JFK, but nothing on the Moonies.i
This may have been influenced by the fact that Rev. Moon has some
ownership or control of the publisher(I think it was Paragon) of the 
hardcover edition. 

I didn't like the Vankin book much. It seemed to me that most of
the material was lifted without attribution from Mae Brussel and
Dave Emory(a radio talk show host in the Bay Area). I've never
found Emory to be someone I'd like to socialize with, but there is very 
little in the Vankin book that you couldn't get from listening to his 
broadcasts.
>
From: aq817@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steve Crocker)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Yale Law One-World Government?
Date: 21 Jan 1993 08:16:55 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Ted, if you really think that when the politically powerful find 
themselves across a luncheon table from one another they have 
nothing better to talk about than social chit-chat, I suggest you
have a sheltered view of human nature. This would be like suggesting 
that COMDEX participants do nothing but attend the scheduled sessions,
that no contacts are made, deals hatched, etc. 

A CFR meeting is like a "trade show" or "orofessional conference" for
those whose business is the exercise of power as such. To assume they 
do not use the opportunity to "network" is simply not credible.

-Steve
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Report on Gritz from Idaho
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 19:05:40 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.102050.2547@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>More code words.  By all means let's drill into the American people that
>to speak out against the "New World Order" and the corrupt internationalists
>behind this movement or to object to the Federal Reserve System which is
>the mainstay of our crumbling economic system means that one is by
>definition some type of political weirdo...most likely neo-Nazi.  If one
>understood that the shaping up of the new international order smells of
>fascism in its most virulent form and that Federal Reserve is really
>code for economic tyranny, then acceptance of these "code words" might
>not be automatic regardless of what politician's mouth delivers them.

Please explain Gritz's Nazi salutes and membership in and support of
the Identity Christian movement.  Please also explain why a non-racist
would choose to run on the same ticket as David Duke.  Please explain
why a non-Nazi associates himself with folks who claim the Holocaust
didn't happen.

What evidence would you require, Joe, before you considered Gritz an
anti-Semite or racist?
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: What the Trilateralists truly intend
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 18:39:34 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.113530.2539@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan23.101841.24973@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
>> In article <1jr0doINNciq@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs) writes:
>>>> Foreign Affairs prints opinion pieces of widely diverging 
>>>>viewpoints.
>
>>>Since objectivity is ALWAYS absent in any publication, it behooves the
>>>reader to ask himself, "What axe is being ground here?"  The axe ground
>>>over time by FOREIGN AFFAIRS is the axe of globalism.  They want to see
>>>a New World Order, a global government.
>> 
>> 2) What evidence do you have that this is true in the first place?
>> 
>You want evidence?  Grab a copy...any copy...and invest 15 minutes browsing
>through it.  

I've been familiar with Foreign Affairs long before I heard of conspiracy
theories involving the CFR.  While it's certainly not isolationist, it's
false to say that the magazine supports "the overthrow of the sovereign
United States government," etc., etc.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy:14686 soc.culture.african.american:14368
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Masons
From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 10:28:44 GMT
Organization: The CServer at the Z*NET International Global News Gateway

Timothy.J.Young@dartmouth.edu (Timothy J. Young) writes:

> My two cents about this :
> 
> Any society this large and this secret (i.e. Masons) is bound to be
> filled with corruption. This applies to any organization, especially
> the Catholic Church, the world's #1 source of sexism and homophobia.  
> Quote : "Never trust any group of people larger than a squad."
> 
 
 Tim,
 
 I have to agree about the Catholic Church but I sorely disagree about
 the masons.  While we hear almost monthly about some priest gone astray
 in one wicked way or other we are lucky to hear each decade about 
 about the masonic fraternity.
 
---
"Fred there is a new lodge in Dublin" "Yhea" Yes its called the sons of
 Casey"
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Part 5,  U.S. Government Practices Germ Warfare on U.S. Population
Date: 23 Jan 1993 02:07:58 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1993Jan20.215716.25774@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, jad@hopper.ACS.Virginia.EDU (John DiNardo) writes:
>So now we have the first recorded example in the World of people
>being infected by the release into the environment of a genetically-
>altered microbe. Now, I don't believe that. I believe that we have 
>a lot more of these infections that we were never told about, 
>including the HIV virus.

Gee.  Yet another loudmouth who things HIV is something new, not something
that's been around since the '50s.  Just how do you explain the fact that HIV
preceded genetic engineering by over a decade.  Sorry to've risked confusing
you by bringing some facts into your diatribe.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
From: des@inmos.co.uk (David Shepherd)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,uk.politics
Subject: Re: Norman Lamont, his flexible friend, and Miss Whiplash
Date: 22 Jan 93 10:40:21 GMT
Followup-To: uk.politics,alt.conspiracy
Distribution: uk
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

mathew (mathew@mantis.co.uk) wrote:
: But interestingly, Ms St Clair recently claimed (according to Ceefax) that
: she had a "dirt file" detailing famous people who have been clients of
: prostitutes, and that she was prepared to reveal this information to protest
: about a huge tax bill she had been sent.

: And now she's missing.  It all sounds very odd.  Does anyone know what's going
: on?

Given that (i) she parked her car and was seen walking away (ii) one
of her bank cards has been used subsequently to get money from a bank,
I'd say it looks like a publicity stunt or a "Stonehouse". It looks,
though, as if she may have got more than she bargained for as the 
Police seem to have decided that in order to solve this "mystery" they
need to do a detailed search of her house for any evidence that might
indicate what was going on!

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
david shepherd: des@inmos.co.uk                     tel: 0454-616616 x 625
                inmos ltd, 1000 aztec west, almondsbury, bristol, bs12 4sq
		Life doesn't imitate art, it imitates bad television
						      - Husbands and Wives
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy:14753 alt.activism:21490 alt.censorship:10135 talk.politics.mideast:26369 talk.politics.misc:70230 misc.headlines:7577 soc.culture.arabic:6971
From: rburns@StarConn.com (Randall J. Burns)
Subject: Re: Report on Gritz from Idaho
Organization: Starnet-Public Access UNIX--Los Altos, CA  415-949-3133
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:32:18 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.135158.917@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan25.080724.28481@StarConn.com> rburns@StarConn.com (Randall J. Burns) writes:
>
>>So far, I've seen a lot of defensiveness, and 
>>insecurity around the situation of Jews in America(which I see as
>>similar to the attempts in the 40's to deny that certain Sicilian ethnic 
>>Mafias really existed) 
>
>One difference is that (1) there's no Jewish analogue to the Mafia
Well, I suggest that you read up a bit about the history of organized 
crime.

There have been a variety of ethnic mafias. The most famous is that of
the Sicilians, but the mentor of Meyer Lansky was head of a fairly large
crime organization that was Jewish. What actually made Meyer Lansky and
Lucky Luciano rather unusual in their day was that their organization
was less exclusively ethnically based than were many of the competitive
organizations.

Now, you can say this is all in the past. Well, this is an area in which
it takes quite a while for the truth to filter out. The only _real_
information we have is about what happened 50 years ago or so.

It would probably be fair to say that Jewish crime organizations are
probably less important now than they were 30 years ago. Large crime
networks usually don't disappear quite so easily. To say they are
non-existant is simply a variety of ethnic posturing. Mr. Frank is
showing once again that he can dish it out, but he can't take it.



Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.individualism,alt.censorship,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines,soc.culture.usa
From: gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
Subject: Re: Norman Lamont, his flexible friend, and Miss Whiplash
Reply-To: gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK
Distribution: uk
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 11:53:58 GMT

In article <C17CFD.AKq@demon.co.uk> gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
>In article <930120.155234.5Y8.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:
>:
>:Further investigation suggests that this might be a different "Miss Whiplash"
>:from the one who rented Lamont's flat; this "Miss Whiplash" is Lindi St Clair
>:of the Corrective Party.
>
>(ahem) Correct.  Actually, I was surprised that during the Norman stories
>that none of the press pointed this out; you'd think they knew Lindi well
>enough by now...  (she's quite (ahem) big over here)

Well, no one ever claimed that Norman Lamont had let his basement to
Lindi St Clair.  I can't remember the name of the "sex therapist"
who he let the basement to, but I never heard her referred to as
"Miss Whiplash" except on this group.

>My bet is she'll turn up soon and make loadsa bucks selling her story to
>the tabloids.  I doubt very much she's been done away with by MI5, worried
>about the collapse of parliament.  She always swore again and again that
>she'd never dish the dirt, and she'd be out of business for good if she
>did.  It's a publicity stunt I reckon.

I'm sure it is.  It seems as though she's deliberately left a trail of
intrigue.



--
Guy Barry, University of Cambridge | Phone: +44 (0)223 334757 
Computer Laboratory                | Fax: +44 (0)223 334678
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street  | JANET: Guy.Barry@uk.ac.cam.cl 
Cambridge CB2 3QG, England, UK     | Internet: Guy.Barry@cl.cam.ac.uk 
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.jewish
From: eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41)
Subject: Re: Jewish Bankers
Reply-To: eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu
Organization: MIT Lincoln Lab - Group 41
	<1993Jan25.083137.28783@StarConn.com>
	<1993Jan25.134823.790@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: 25 Jan 93 23:05:18

In article <1993Jan25.134823.790@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
>   In article <1993Jan25.083137.28783@StarConn.com> rburns@StarConn.com (Randall J. Burns) writes:
>   >Mr. Frank, let me ask you:
>   >
>   >1) Do you feel it is sheer and utter coincidence that several of the
>   >   most prominent financial criminals in recent decades have been Jewish
>   >   (i.e. Ivan Boesky, Michael Milken, Meyer Lansky)? 
>...
>   I note that you leave out Charles Keating, the Silverado scandal, every
>   single S&L in Texas, etc.  Non-Jews do perfectly fine in producing
>   financial criminals.

He also forgot the Texan Hunt brothers (who tried to corner the world
siver market), who are really good ole boys.  And BCCI, which hardly
qualifies as a Jewish institution!

And one mustn't forget Mr. Potter! ;-)

--
=Jim  eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: rburns@StarConn.com (Randall J. Burns)
Subject: Re: Jewish Banking History
Organization: Starnet-Public Access UNIX--Los Altos, CA  415-949-3133
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 10:15:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan13.212423.8935@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>Any success Jewish bankers had came from (1) charging lower rates of
>interest, and (2) being easy to stiff, as Jewish bankers had little
>recourse from the governments of the day. 
Keep in mind that it is _cohesive_ cultures that do well in the banking
business. Another less loaded example would be Quakers(Barclay's Bank
started as a quaker lending club). There are also some distinct
advantages to being a minority that isn't a perceived as a military 
threat. Ripping off one's lendors has never been a grea governmental 
policy-governments that do it usually sow the seeds of their own
destruction.
.
o