HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ccfa001@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Mountain bikes in $1500-$2700 range >opinions
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin
Date: 6 Nov 92 10:29:07 CST

In article <1992Nov5.201259.19127@leland.Stanford.EDU>, lloyd@leland.Stanford.EDU (William Koenig Lloyd) writes:
> Don't mean to be rude, but you must've never ridden on a bike in this price
> range, then.  There is an absolute difference in the way a $700 bike feels
> and the way a $2700 bike feels.  Not only is the more expensive bike (often
> as much as 3 or 4 pounds) lighter, but all the components work better (and
> well-set up XTR works flawlessly).  If you really ride it like a mountain bike
> (feeling guilty when you're on a road), you'll appreciate the difference.
-- 

I'll be the first to agree that bikes in the megabuck range ride beautifully;
however, particularly in the case of mountain bikes, what must go through
the head of an off-roader riding a new fill-in-the-blank-tanium the first time 
he/she drops the bike on some rough single-track or a fast downhill?  We're
talking a lot of bucks toward a bike that's designed for abuse.  You could
get three fairly nice bikes for the price of one Merlin.  Buying expensive
mountain bikes and using them off-road is sorta' like buying a Lambourgini
(sp?) for use in a demolition derby.
-
Curt Vaughan
Email: ccfa001@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
From: jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM (John Fox - SunExpress IR)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Subject: Re: Carrying Bikes on Cars
Date: 11 Nov 92 13:51:54 GMT
Reply-To: jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: hooksett.east.sun.com

In article 21807@u.washington.edu, kevin@carson.u.washington.edu (Kevin Caskey) writes:
>On a slightly different topic.
>Has anyone had any luck adapting any of the major systems to a factory 
>roof rack? In particular, I just bought a '93 escort wagon with factory rack.
>Any comments from the cognicenti? (sp? I have no non-english dictionary)
>Kevin at the U dub
>
I know Thule sells a system that adapts to the Taurus wagon factory roof rack.
It's not inconceivable they do the same for the Escort. Call a Thule dealer,
or check their catalog for sure.


John
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
From: marcus@vestek.com (Mark Stephen)
Subject: Bikes in the $1500 - $300 price range
Organization: Vestek Systems, San Francisco
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 19:18:57 GMT

     First of all, I would like to say that there are too many responses to this
post that are not answering the post, but rather giving their opinion of how much
one should spend on a bike. Please stop wasting bandwidth ! If you dont feel that
one should spend this kind of money, or you just cant afford to, we dont care.

     Secondly, I ride a Cinelli mtn bike, at the lower end of that range, and 
can say without the slightest hesitation that the difference between it and a
$700 Stumpjumper are easily noticed. 

     Anyway, a bike that I have seen in a local San Fran shop that caught my eye
is a 'Steelman', made in Washington or Colorado I believe. Beutiful hand mad 
steel frames, built around the components you would like. I think an XT setup
is about $1900. Does anyone own one of these ? Or know anything about them ?

     Marcus
From: chandler@wc.novell.com (Mark Chandler)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Subject: Re: Q: Trek 720 & 730 a good buy?
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:34:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: novell.1992Nov12.183400.23631
Organization: Novell, Inc. - Walnut Creek

In article <124280001@acf3.NYU.EDU> wut@acf3.NYU.EDU (Tom Wu) writes:
> 	
>	Hi. I am a beginning cyclist looking for a hybrid to get
>around the city (NY) and perhaps go off road once or twice.
>I am planning to spend around $400 for a decent set of wheels.
>After shopping around, I've decided on either TREK 720 or TREK 730.
>Before I complete the deal, is there someone on this Net who is 
> awared of any problems with these bikes? I am not sure
>what is the roughest terrain these bikes could take. Is it all
>in the tires? Could I just switch to some knobbier tires and treat
>them like MTBs?

While both of these are good bikes, neither one of them could be
treated as MTBs. The 720 & 730 cannot accept tires that are as
large as those used on moutain bikes.  Trek's upper-end models
will accept pretty big tires though -- the '93 7900 comes with
700x40C tires, and will supposedly accept 700x43Cs.

Specialized's hybrids/cross bikes accept large tires.  Most come
equipped with 700x41C Nimbus tires (which are quite nice), and
most will clear their 700x45C Tri-Cross II knobby.

There are some really good large 700C tires available, but most bikes
simply don't have clearance for them.  Basically, it all boils down
to money -- there's a higher import fee on fat tire-capable bikes.
See the '93 Bridgestone catalogue for the best explanation of this.

I'm finishing-up an article on really fat 700C tires.  I tested some
of the biggest available.  If you (or anyone else) is interested
in getting a copy of the article, I can send you the issue of _cross
words_ (my hybrid/cross newslett) that it appears in.  Send $2.50 to:

c r o s s w o r d s
P.O. Box 3207
Walnut Creek, CA  94598

(Make any checks payable to "Mark Chandler")

The issue will be out the first part of December.

>	Thanks in advance for your answers.


--
Mark Chandler               Novell, Inc.          510/975-4522
chandler@wc.novell.com      Walnut Creek, CA
==================================================================
     The opinions expressed above are mine, not my employer's.
Organization: Freshman, CIT general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: cmu.rec.cyclists,rec.bicycles.marketplace,cmu.misc.market
Date: Mon,  9 Nov 1992 11:05:06 -0500 
From: Jeffrey Jay Aurand <ja3a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Schwinn racing bike

	That's right, I have a used Schwinn racing bike for sale.  It is the
564 Aluminium, silver and black, size 23 inches.  This bike was never
crashed, and for over half of the time I owned it, I had upgraded
compnents on it so the originals are in great condition.  I have a Campy
Chorus BB I can't use on my new bike because the threading is wrong, so
I could possibly be persuaded to let the BB go with the bike.   Nothing
is wrong with this bike, I am only selling it because it is too big for
me, I should never have bought it in the first place.  I am asking $350,
but Christmas is approaching and I need some cash.  If you're
interested, respond to this account or call (412) 268-8638.

Jeffrey J. Aurand
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh  PA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
From: frank@molbio.cbs.umn.edu (Frank Williams)
Subject: Re: Ergo shifter info wanted
Organization: University of Minnesota
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 04:49:34 GMT

Sam Henry (shenry@cs.rice.edu) wrote:

..regarding claims that ergopower or STI levers facilitate
simultaneous shifting of front and rear derailleurs...

: With the down-tube
: shifters on other bikes I ride/have riden, I can easily double shift
: with my right hand. Almost simultaneosly, I can flip the left shifter
: with my thumb/index finger to its max to shift the chain ring and the
: right shifter with my middle (salute) and ring finger to change a cog
: or two.  It is especially easy with indexed shifting on the right
: shifter. 
: 
: So, am I missing something here, ergonomic engineeringly speaking?

I would say that double shifting became effortless, predictable and
reliable with the ergo levers.  I wouldn't say that other setups
and alot of practice are either obsolete or inferior.  For all the
money that the new levers cost, not to mention the added weight,
the advantages are difficult to justify.  Fortunately, people say
"Ooohh" when they see them. That's worth lots, no?

The same argument can be applied to nearly every aspect of our lives
as consumers.  For example how many pair of shoes do we need?  Imelda
and I disagree.  We're probably both wrong, since my number is zero.
Betcha I own more bikes than Imelda...

Frank Williams
frank@molbio.cbs.umn.edu

to justify: 
: -- 
: sam henry <shenry@rice.edu>
: Wanna ride?
From: jimd@pequod.gvg.tek.com (Jim Delwiche)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Subject: Re: Carrying Bikes on Cars
Date: 12 Nov 92 00:22:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: gold.5586
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <1992Nov10.052446.6021@IDA.ORG> lehman@csed-11 (Dan Lehman) writes:
<stuff deleted>

>4) wind noise--Yaks have a surprisling LOT; my Thule, very little; is this
>	due to round (loud?) vs. retangular (quiet) bars, or the towers?

Yes, it's due to the round poles.  I think the effect is called
Karmann vortices or something.  Basically a cylindrical profile is a
really bad idea from the wind noise perspective.  

Jim
From: mackinto@oasys.dt.navy.mil (David Mackintosh)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Subject: Re: New Klein Catalog is out ==> 2.7lb 55cm frame
Date: 13 Nov 92 13:46:03 GMT
Reply-To: mackinto@oasys.dt.navy.mil (David Mackintosh)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.bicycles.marketplace, praetzel@maxwell.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel) writes:

>  Gary seems to be getting back into Boron fiber and epoxy reinforcement.  In
>his older custom frames he used to reinforce joints with Boron fiber.  My bet
>is that is was mostly cosmetic (like the Specialized M2) since the current
>frames are lighter and don't seem any worse for the lack of it.  If you want
>to spend $3200 on a MTB you can now have your Boron and eat it too.

Actually, I saw no difference in the catalog in his Team, Stage, and
Adroit frames.  These have had boron/epoxy reinforced chainstays,
seatstays, and I think fork blades continuously for some time now.
The frames look just like the non-reinforced models so I don't think
it's meant to be cosmetic.  I don't understand your analogy with the
M2 which is not reinforced with a laminate but has particles throughout
the tube walls.  The Kleins also have smooth fillet welds (probably
filed) while the M2 has big, lumpy, (but uniform) TIG welds.

The new stem does appear to be similar to the Girvin Flexstem in that
there is only one pivot.  It uses a spring and probably friction for
damping.

David Mackintosh
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
From: A10377@waccvm.corp.mot.com (Michael Duke)
Subject: vetta c-1000 heart rate monitor/comp.
Organization: Motorola
Date: 9 Nov 1992 13:35:35 MST

Has anyone had any experience with the new Vetta
c-1000 heart rate monitor/computer? At about $95,
it sure seems like a solid value.

Thanks
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
From: yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo)
Subject: Re: Mountain bikes in $1500-$2700 range >opinions
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1992 16:49:13 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <BxAus2.HoF@acsu.buffalo.edu> jtyl@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (BJ) writes:
>In article <Bx8zzw.6Fn@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes...
>>yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo) writes:
>>>In article <1992Nov4.164831.980@schbbs.mot.com> A10377@waccvm.corp.mot.com (Michael Duke) writes:
>
>>>>I'm planning to buy a new mtb bike.....
>>>>....in this price range, $1500-$2700.
>
>>>Am I alone here or do others also think that bike prices in the 
>>>$3000 dollar range are ludicrous?  
>
>>I think you're alone.  Most of us are so far gone that we just wish we HAD
>>$3000 to spend on a bike.
>
>I'll second that opinion!  I wish I have 3 grand to spend on a bike.
>Then again, I don't know how I would feel when I crash my $3,000 bike
>the first time.  I would think that crashing on a $3000 bike is a much
>more emotionally traumatic experience than crashing a $700 bike.

Also, to the intelligent bike thief (if there is such an animal) the
brand new $3000 bike is more attractive than the $700 bike or the $100
klunker.

What is it that you see in this theoretical $3000 bike?  Is it beauty?
Ease of use? Quality?  Speed?  

If it is the latter, then I challenge you to a race with my 
bike  (the winner gets both bikes :-)) 

If you must know, I ride a $100 klunker.

-- 
 Ralph Yozzo (yozzo@watson.ibm.com)  
 From the beautiful and historic Mid-Hudson Valley area of NY state
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
From: lloyd@leland.Stanford.EDU (William Koenig Lloyd)
Subject: Re: Mountain bikes in $1500-$2700 range >opinions
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305 USA
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 09:01:10 GMT

Well, all I can say about this is:  Merlin hasn't had a single frame failure
in 2 1/2 years.  My bike's taken quite a few good hits, and it doesn't care.
It's strong as well as light because titanium bikes can use much greater wall
thicknesses on the tubes and still be light.  I can assure you, a 0.9mm thick
titanium tube is gonna take the impact of a rock a whole lot better than an
0.5 mm thick steel tube or aluminum tube.  Merlin has a demo keychain
with a 1mm thick piece of titanium and you can reef on it to your heart's
content... you can't bend it.
I guess what I'm saying is no, I don't worry in the least about frame failure.

This editor sucks!

Bill
)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
From: yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo)
Subject: Re: Mountain bikes in $1500-$2700 range >opinions
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1992 02:37:03 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <1992Nov5.150217.22240@schbbs.mot.com> CMSC28@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Mark Hickey) writes:
>>>I'm planning to buy a new mtb bike and it has been awhile since
>>>I purchased my Ritchey in 1987. I haven't decided if I will buy
>>>another Ritchey or not, so I'm open to any and all suggestions
>>>from anyone who's recently purchased a bike or spent some time
>>>riding one in this price range, $1500-$2700.
>
>>Am I alone here or do others also think that bike prices in the
>>$3000 dollar range are ludicrous?
>
>>C'mon, guys we're talking about a bike.  Remember, two wheels,
>>some tubing, and it does not weigh very much.  They'd have to
>>make the bike out of gold or platinum before you'd catch me
>>paying $3000 for a bicycle.
>
>Well, it's not ludicrous compared to someone buying a $50,000
>*car*.  I mean, they'll lose more than $3000 in depreciation
>every couple months for a while.... and I for one (maybe the
>*only* one) would get more yuks hammering through the woods
>on a 22 lb. titanium MTB than cruising down the interstate in
>a Lexus or Mercedes.

Well, (or Whaaale (as Ronnie Reagan would say)), you are not
all alone on this one.  I, too, prefer bicycling to driving a car
anyday.

-- 
 Ralph Yozzo (yozzo@watson.ibm.com)  
 From the beautiful and historic Mid-Hudson Valley area of NY state
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
From: gorrie@hercules.cs.uregina.ca (Dennis Gorrie)
Subject: Ritchey Ultra
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 08:08:56 GMT
Organization: University of Regina, SK, Canada


I those stores about good deals on the 1992 bikes are true!  Last
week I bought a Ritchey Ultra for $1000 CDN.  The gears, hubs,
shifters, derailleurs, and spd-737 pedals are all Shimano XT.  
The rest of the components are Ritchey.  I asked the salesman to
throw in SM-200 shoes, which he did, and he also threw in a pair
of normal pedals with clips.   I guess the main reason I chose this
bike was because all of the shops in town were selling DX equipped
bikes for the same price or even higher.  I was looking at buying
a DX equipped bike but I figured an XT/Ritchey bike for the same 
price would probably be a step up.

Comments about the Frame:
The TIG welded Ritchey/Prestige frameset is very plain and
ordinary looking.  Its also light (<5lb) and has good clearances
for the tires and cranks.

Comments about the Components: The Ritchey components are also
very plain and light.   The only part of the bike I would call
'gimmicky' are the tires (Megabite in the back, ZMAX in front).

If any of you out there have a Ritchey Ultra I'd like to hear
any comments you might have.  Please respond by e-mail.  Thanks.


gorrie@hercules.cs.uregina.ca           gorriede@max.cc.uregina.ca
gorrie@regina.cs.uregina.ca             gorrie@meena.cc.uregina.ca
Dennis Gorrie    "I used to be apathetic, but now I don't care..."
From: caseb@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Subject: Re: Mountain bikes in $1500-$2700 range >opinions
Date: 10 Nov 92 10:30:34 EST

In article <1992Nov7.090110.24115@leland.Stanford.EDU>, lloyd@leland.Stanford.EDU (William Koenig Lloyd) writes:
> Well, all I can say about this is:  Merlin hasn't had a single frame failure
> in 2 1/2 years.  My bike's taken quite a few good hits, and it doesn't care.
> It's strong as well as light because titanium bikes can use much greater wall
> thicknesses on the tubes and still be light.  I can assure you, a 0.9mm thick
> titanium tube is gonna take the impact of a rock a whole lot better than an
> 0.5 mm thick steel tube or aluminum tube.  Merlin has a demo keychain
> with a 1mm thick piece of titanium and you can reef on it to your heart's
> content... you can't bend it.
> I guess what I'm saying is no, I don't worry in the least about frame failure.
> 
> This editor sucks!
> 
> Bill
> )

I don't worry about my steel frame breaking either.
It takes a ridiculously bad piece of riding to break a mountain 
bike frame.  But since $2000 bikes and clueless riders seem to go together, 
maybe its a good thing your bike is made of titanium.

Brian Case
From: truesdel@ics.uci.edu (R. Scott Truesdell)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Subject: Re: Carrying Bikes on Cars
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:39:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: aux-1.truesdel-091192102045
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Distribution: na
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <1dfadtINNono@iskut.ucs.ubc.ca>, latornel@unixg.ubc.ca (Doug
Latornell) wrote:
>
> 	1) Are roof racks in fact a better way of carrying bikes or
>            should we just stick to the trunk rack mounted on the
>            Golf's hatchback?

I have a Yakima rook rack on my car and, despite the fact that I remove and
install it fairly frequently, there is no visible effect on the paint or
anywhere else on the car. This means a lot to me. Despite my best efforts,
my old trunk mount left small dents and scratches. The rack installs in
under a minute and it's easy to reproduce the exact location and spacing of
the rack (I use my palm as a guage). The rack locks to the car with a key.


> 	2) Assuming roof racks are the way to go, what are the merits
>            of forks down vs. upright mounting mechanisms for carrying
>            road bikes?

The one and only one disadvantage of fork mounts is that you have to remove
the front wheel (manual labor :-) and store it elsewhere in the car (a
potential problem for long trips). Of course there are wheel mounts
available for roof racks, negating the storage issue.

The advantages of fork mounts are:

1)  The mount is more secure and road-worthy in my opinion. I have seen no
facts to back this up though.

2)  The center of gravity of the entire car/rack/bike assembly is slightly
lower as is the overhead clearance.

3)  It is easier to mount the bikes because (a) you don't have to lift them
as high and (b) it's easier to locate the forks in position and clamp them
down than balance the entire bike and attach the down tube support. The
easiest way to lift the bike up is to bend down and grasp the bike by the
fork and seat stay just beneath the brakes. Grasping other areas leaves you
overextended trying to get into the roof mounts and less able to finely
control the exact position of the drop outs and rear wheel.

> What about for mountain bikes?

The Thule racks I've seen won't mount my Manitou suspension forks. The
Yakimas pose no problem. I have three racks on my car and could easily go
to four with no problem, alternating forward and backward facing bikes to
make handlebar clearance easier.

  --scott
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
From: freytag@seas.gwu.edu (Richard Freytag)
Subject: Want Time or LOOK shoes,10.5 size
Followup-To: freytag@seas.gwu.edu
Organization: George Washington University
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 06:57:59 GMT

I am willing to pay you good $ for your spare pair of
Time or LOOK shoes in size 10 1/2.  Appearance not 
important but must be very functional and without 
odor.  

Mail replies to: freytag@seas.gwu.edu

-Richard Freytag
Organization: Fifth yr. senior, IM - Graphic Communications, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Date: Thu,  5 Nov 1992 22:02:44 -0500 
From: Guy Hoagland Walker <gw0o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Campy for sale.

Hey-

I have some Campagnolo parts for sale:

C Record Crankset
- 172.5 arm length
- 52/42 rings
- brand new, never used
$200

Record Bottom Bracket
- Italian threading
- sealed cartridge (new type for Campy)
$75

I would prefer to sell them together, but I'll sell them separately.

Send e-mail or call 412.268.5426

Guy Walker
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
From: MEDELMA@cms.cc.wayne.edu (Michael Edelman)
Subject: Wanted: Campy friction shifters
Organization: Wayne State University, C&IT
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 22:38:32 GMT

I'm looking for a set of braze-on Campy friction shifters- any type
will do.NR, SR, Croce d'une...
-----------------------------------------------------------------
 Michael Joseph Edelman           Wayne State University
 medelma@cms.cc.wayne.edu         Computing & Information Technology
 mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu        Detroit, Michigan
 medelma@waynest1.bitnet          (313) 577-0742
 KE8YY
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
From: wut@acf3.NYU.EDU (Tom Wu)
Subject: Q: Trek 720 & 730 a good buy?
Organization: New York University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:29:00 GMT

 	
	Hi. I am a beginning cyclist looking for a hybrid to get
around the city (NY) and perhaps go off road once or twice.
I am planning to spend around $400 for a decent set of wheels.
After shopping around, I've decided on either TREK 720 or TREK 730.
Before I complete the deal, is there someone on this Net who is 
 awared of any problems with these bikes? I am not sure
what is the roughest terrain these bikes could take. Is it all
in the tires? Could I just switch to some knobbier tires and treat
them like MTBs?

	Thanks in advance for your answers.
From: casseres@apple.com (David Casseres)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Subject: Re: Oakly shades
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:28:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: missmoll.casseres-131192102736
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.marketplace,rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.

In article <8eyDdDi00VI=0HWoV_@andrew.cmu.edu>, havey+@CMU.EDU (Robert J.
Havey) wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i'm looking at buying some oakly shades myself.... how are oakleys?  are they
> nice and durable?  is there a way i can get a better price for them ($135 for
> frame w/ mirrored positive red lenses + $30 for clear lenses)?  i had a
> problem with my gargoyles fogging and with my sweat dripping inside the
> glasses--do oakleys have this problem?  i was thinking about bolle' but heard
> that the brow pad can actually make things worse.

The Bolle brow pad is removable -- I took mine off and I wear a sweat band
if I'm going to be climbing or hammering or the weather is hot.

The big advantage that Bolles have over Oakleys is they leave you with a
lot more money in your hand, and much less of a feeling that you've been
screwed.

--

David Casseres
Exclaimer: Wow!