From: pshane@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Ana M. Shane)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna,soc.culture.croatia
Subject: Re: Good News from U.S. + some analysis
Date: 23 Jan 93 05:14:30 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

blazic@ecf.toronto.edu (BLAZIC Joseph R) writes:

>"Just as much" are very strong words.  We'll have to wait and see exactly
>what is going on.  It looks like there are some real pragmatists on the
>Croatian side who would take a part of Bosnia-Hercegovina if it dies
>(more correctly, if the world lets it die, which it is doing in many
>many ways).  Croatia was for a sovereign and intact B-H from the beginning
>and was the only effective ally (militarily; in terms of refugees taken)
>of Bosnia-Hercegovina.  If the world throws Bosnia to the wolves, one has
>to wonder if or why should Croats in parts of B-H be more 'principled'
>than anyone else in the world (including the UN, who has effectively helped
>the Serbian side by maintaining the effective heavy arms embargo).

Joe, this is not a good logic!!! Please, Joe, be as strong against Croatian
extremists as you are against the Serbian extremists! Do not change your
arguments and standards just because it is the "Croatian" extremists who
are doing to Bosnia the same what the "Serbian" extremists are! Maybe
even worse: like hyenas, they have waited for the "Serb" extremists to
kill the prey on their own, only to partake in carving up the carcass!!
Do not do that, Joe! Do not let go  your high standards just because
you feel Croatian. One can be a proud Croatian/Serbian/Bosnia&Herzegovina
Moslem and still be against all those who in the name of these nations
are committing the horrible crimes against humanity!

[the rest deleted]

The problem with the UN and the rest of the world is that they fell for the
nationalist rhetoric of the criminals who killed Yugoslavia (and within it
are killing Bosnia & Herzegovina). There is nothing really national or
ethnic in the ideologies of the leaders in this war. They change their
logic according to what suits them the best. They take up extreme 
nationalism when they see that this will secure them the most support
from the "people" and international community, but they take "secular" or
"unity of all the ethnic groups"-ideology when that seems to "work" better.
However, regardless of what they say they are fighting among themselves
(the leaderships) for more power and for their positions among the
leaders/rulers. And all the while they do not have an ounce of regard
or consideration for anybody - their own or "other" people.

Let me just remind you:

In 1990 - in Croatia: Tudjman won the elections because of his extreme
Croatian nationalist rhetoric. The decision to secede from Yugoslavia
was also explained in terms of extreme nationalism + getting away from
"Serbian" "Communism".

But in 1992 - in regard to Bosnia - Croatian leadership rhetoric is
suddenly: support for the multiethnic state. While at the same time
Croatia is to be a nation-state with separate regulations for the
citizens of non-Croatian origin!!!

In 1990 - in Serbia: Milosevic won the election because his party
(no longer strictly speaking "communist") was against nationalism
i.e. the people effectively had a choice between Socialists and
nationalists (Draskovic/Sheshelj = still one party). The overwhelming
majority chose "socialists" (Milosevic). (Weak Serbian nationalism??)

But in 1991 and on, when Croatia and Slovenia had seceded from Yugoslavia,
nationalist rhetoric becomes the main force for Milosevic in order
to support Krajina Serbs and latter Bosnian extreme "Serbian" nationalists.

Up until the time Bosnia&Herzegovina had seceded from already "shortened"
Yugoslavia, SPS (Milosevic & CO) did not let the full scope of the
extreme nationalism emerge, hoping still to keep the leadership in
Bosnia&Herzegovina within the idea of Yugoslavia as a multiethnic
federation. But once Bosnia & Herzegovina had seceded, extreme nationalism
became almost the sole rhetoric of the one time "communists". And with
stepped up chauvinist propaganda they have managed to stay in power
in Serbia and Monte-Negro.


In 1991/1992 - in Bosnia: The main reason for the secession of Bosnia & 
Herzegovina given by the "rump" Bosnian government (without its "Serbian"
members) was to get away from under the "Serbian" domination. The Moslem
and the Croatian members of the government used ethnic arguments much
more than economic or other arguments in order to get support for their
secession (from Croatia and the rest of the world). These
ethnic arguments are also used by the Moslem leaders of the Bosnian
government whenever they turn to the Islamic countries for support!!
Yet, they insist on multietnic "principles" whenever THAT seems to
*work* better.

This war has really nothing to do with ethnic or religious reasons. They
are just used and misused by the ones in power to stay in power or to gain more
power or to avoid facing jail and trial for all the criminal deeds they have
done (economically grounding the country into the deep whole, killings
and other atrocities committed, etc). As long as the world (UN, USA, EC)
keeps believing in the ethnic/religious reasons for the war, and as long
as the world and the peoples in the former Yugoslavia also believe that
divisions are along ethnic/religious differences, the war is not going
to end and the ones who profit from it are going to keep profiting.
The moment somebody realizes that all the nations and all the peoples
are the victims of the criminals who armed now with extreme nationalism
and now with "multiethnic state" are pushing everybody into hell.


>Regards,

>Joe Blazic


Sincere regards,

Ana M. Shane

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before any ethnic cleansing, one must first do the brain-washing
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,alt.news.macedonia,soc.culture.misc