From: ckincy@cs.umr.edu (Charles Kincy)
Subject: Re: [misc.activism.progressive] Clinton Office Requests Comments
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:06:48 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla, Rolla, MO

Damn, I hate it when I get on an 90-column xterm. :(

I'm reformatting this one so as to not blow your reader.

>In article <1icddbINNvp@armory.centerline.com> mrh@centerline.com (Mike Huben) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan5.050327.28994@zip.eecs.umich.edu> positron@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Jonathan Haas) writes:
>>>In article <1iab94INNsdv@armory.centerline.com> mrh@centerline.com (Mike Huben) writes:
>>>>My parents were impoverished immigrants.  They, my sisters, and I could
>>>>never have afforded our educations which propelled us into the middle class
>>>>without substantial government loans and subsidies.  I defy you to point to
>>>>a nation that creates and perpetuates a large middle class without such
>>>>subsidies.
>>>
>>>So let me see if I understand this. Premise 1: Your parents were poor.
>>>Premise 2: You needed an education to suceed. Conclusion: Joe Richguy
>>>down the street should be compelled, at gunpoint, to pay for that
>>>education. Maybe I'm being obtuse, but I'm missing the logical leap
>>>there.
>>
>>Yes, quite obtuse, in addition to misrepresenting my thought.
>>
>>Nobody is compelling Joe Richguy to do anything: he has chosen to live in the
>>USA and abide by our government.  Nobody is pointing a gun at him and
>>commanding him to stay here where by mutual agreement we are taxed.

Refuse to pay your taxes for a year or two.  See what happens.

They don't box you up and send you elsewhere.  They come to arrest you.
If you resist, they shoot you.

The government *is* holding a gun to your head to get taxes from you.
Just because it wields them through the FBI and IRS doesn't mean it's not
robbery.

>>Joe Richguy has now benefitted, since I have by now already repaid (through
>>taxes on my greater earnings) those subsidies, and can now better share
>>supporting the costs of society with him.

You never paid back your subsidies.  The government increased its spending
horribly since you got out of college, and therefore, you are paying large
amounts of money to pay the *interest* on the money the government borrowed
to subsidize your education.  As a result, those of us currently in college
are getting reamed!

I don't think you'd see many people whining about taxes if we actually paid
the costs of society.  We pay the costs of society and then keep on paying and 
paying and paying.  Meanwhile, politicians and corporate businessmen are 
pocketing your hard-earned tax money.  Corruption.  *inhale*  Dontcha just 
love the smell of it?  Kinda like fresh chicken shit on a sticky August 
morning in rural northwest Arkansas.  [What's left of it.  I hear that 
Alice Walton and her buddies in government are going to build an unnecessary
airport there with *your* tax money.  I hope you enjoy it.]



>>You have also ducked my challenge.

Ok, I'll take your "challenge".

No, there isn't any capitalist country that doesn't subsidize its middle 
class.  So?  There isn't any government free of corruption, either.  

What's your point?

Anyway, due to taxation, soon there will *be* no more middle class.
Thanks a lot, liberals!

Oh, I get it, government subsidies are necessary because they are.

Hope your logic doesn't get dizzy going around in circles like that.

cpk
-- 
"The WHITE ZONE is for loading and unloading only.  If you gotta load or un-
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Technology always seems to keep one step ahead of human wisdom.
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