HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: skenny@nano.engr.mun.ca (Shawn Kenny)
Subject: Re: When do we stop being outsiders? (WAS Re: The Journal on ...)
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 13:58:24 GMT

sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher) writes:

>How do you define demand? Where do you draw the line to decide whether or
>not you provide a given service?

>So far I have asked a zillion times to the people who use "where nubmer
>warrants" or "where there's demand" what this means exactly. I'm still
>waiting for the answer.

Well according to the office de la langue francais it is 50% : the most
obvious case in point is Rosemere. What I don't understand why is there
so much debate on whether francophones should get services in various
parts of Manitoba, for example, and if they don't it is yet another
example of English Canada's intolerence towwards the French speaking
minority but in Rosemere themain thrust of the case put forward for
unilingual french status is justified that we must protect the French
language/culture and set an example for other similar communities in the
province? This baffles me, since both french and english have survived
for approximately 100 years in the community and at present is mostly
french speaking. *SHRUG*
--
=================================
skenny@pico.engr.mun.ca
St. John's, NF, CANADA
"Have a touton or do without'n !"
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: scheng@bcarh886.bnr.ca (Spencer Cheng)
Newsgroups: acadia.cs.chat,can.general,can.jobs,ont.general,ont.jobs,comp.jobs
Subject: Re: CS Job Market: What Is The Story?
Date: 8 Apr 92 21:28:18 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Bell-Northern Research

In article <8181-PCNews-124beta@jacc.com> jcarroll@jacc.com (Jim Carroll) writes:


   I met with some students from Humber College a few weeks ago. They echoed
   your sentiments. I asked them what they were being taught : it was typical
   *large data processing environment* concepts, with COBOL and RPG.

   What are companies looking for? People who can program in C; people who
   can put together applications using API's; people who can integrate
   Novell networks and other assorted stuff.....

   Somehow, the educational system is relying on the curriculum of the 80's
   and Corporate Canada has moved into the 90's.

I think it has a lot to do with the recession.

University and colleges by their nature will never be in sync with
corporate needs. C is just yet another programming language (and not a
very good one at that for anything other than system programming.
There are much better ones.). Specific skills such as integrating
Novell networks becomes obsolete even faster than Cobol because they
are based on a specific technology.

Many companies have specific needs which will never be met by any
university. Who else in the world cares about a language named Protel
and a telephone switch named DMS besides BNR.

   I understand I am probably opening up some flames here. However, I regularly
   see companies looking for network specialists, PC skills, integration 
   skills, etc.

I think the situation for the community college grads could be worse than
university grads. The community college grads that I have met/worked
with, generally (There are exceptions so no flames please), are not as
"well rounded". They will know how to program in specific languages or
use specific DBMS packages but lacks the conceptual grasp of issues of
high-level S/W design. Once they made a switch in their mindset to S/W
design rather than coding or testing, which was painful for some, they
usually did OK.

There appears to be a failing in the curriculum of the community
college to teach S/W engineering skills rather than, in general, the
failing of the students. My profs (the good ones) always told me that 
they never cared what methodology/language we learned. They just want
to make sure we can think.
--

Spencer Cheng     scheng@BNR.CA  Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada  613-763-4046
Xref: sparky can.general:2232 can.politics:3869 soc.culture.canada:3486
From: migod@turing.toronto.edu (Mike Godfrey)
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: When do we stop being outsiders? (WAS Re: The Journal on ...)
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:23:53 GMT
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto

In article <1992Apr15.161735.16661@cattnts.canada.ncr.com> craig@cattnts.canada.ncr.com (Craig Campbell) writes:
>
>Well, I didn't know Quebec required an accent.  In my (weak) defense, I used
>to put an accent on resume, ....

Hint for those looking for a job:

	"re'sume'" requires two (or zero) accents.

It's a common mistake, but it makes you look a bit foolish if you accent
only the last "e".

-- 
Mike Godfrey   	           		"Either that wallpaper goes, or I do."
Dept of Comp Sci, UofT      	         	-- allegedly, the last words
migod@turing.toronto.edu			   of Oscar Wilde
Xref: sparky can.general:2095 can.politics:3611 soc.culture.canada:3276
From: grdetil@scrc.umanitoba.ca (Gilles Detillieux)
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: Re: GATEWAY TO COMPUSERVE FROM INTERNET
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:12:10 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada

In article <1992Apr13.180427.27211@sol.UVic.CA> klassen@sol.UVic.CA (Melvin  
Klassen) writes:
> In article <skenny.703176827@femto.engr.mun.ca>
>                        skenny@nano.engr.mun.ca (Shawn Kenny) writes:
> >Can anyone tell me how to email text from my site (which uses INTERNET)
> >to my friend in Calgary (which uses COMPUSERVE). 
> If your friend's ID is "12345,6789",
> then send E-mail to "12345.6789@CompuServe.COM".
> Note how the 'comma' has been changed to a 'period' in the CS ID.

And to send from Compuserve to Internet, preface the address with ">INTERNET:".
e.g.  >INTERNET:skenny@nano.engr.mun.ca

--
Gilles Detillieux                       <Gilles@scrc.UManitoba.CA>
Spinal Cord Research Centre             or <grdetil@gilles.scrc.UManitoba.CA>
Dept. of Physiology, U. of Manitoba     Phone:  (204)788-6766
Winnipeg, MB  R3E 0W3  (Canada)         Fax:    (204)786-0932
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher)
Subject: Re: When do we stop being outsiders? (WAS Re: The Journal on ...)
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Canada
	<9643@s3.ireq.hydro.qc.ca> <1992Apr1.173245.6854@cattnts>
	<SBO.92Apr8195121@walhalla.vlsi.polymtl.ca>
	<skenny.702914304@femto.engr.mun.ca>
Date: 11 Apr 92 11:48:22

In article <skenny.702914304@femto.engr.mun.ca> skenny@nano.engr.mun.ca (Shawn Kenny) writes:

   sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher) writes:

   >How do you define demand? Where do you draw the line to decide whether or
   >not you provide a given service?

   >So far I have asked a zillion times to the people who use "where nubmer
   >warrants" or "where there's demand" what this means exactly. I'm still
   >waiting for the answer.

   Well according to the office de la langue francais it is 50% : the most
	[...]

What is it according to Canada?

--
  ,                          ,                           ,
Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | 
sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | (514)340-5950
Newsgroups: acadia.cs.chat,can.general,can.jobs,ont.general,ont.jobs,comp.jobs
From: 880274d@aucs.acadiau.ca (Ralph I. Doncaster)
Subject: Re: CS Job Market: What Is The Story?
Organization: Acadia University
Distribution: canada
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 04:49:17 GMT

Serveral other studies concurr with the one you quoted.
I agree that graduating students seem to be having more trouble finding work
this year than earlier.
The only thing that I have noticed that could explain this is that the BIG
companies are holding back, trying to get more lean.  There seems to be jobs
in smaller compaines, which do not have the HR facilities that the larger ones
do, and a lot of these positions seem to get advertized and filled through the
grapevine.
I still think there are still a lot of economic opportunities in the computer
science/techonology field.  Get together a few people with a knack for the
technology, someone with a head for business, and some capital; the sky is the
limit...

--
|Ralph Doncaster, Acadia Univ.     ph & fax: (902)542-3010      |
|880274d@aucs.acadiau.ca   ASU box 6585, Wolfville, NS B0P 1Z1  |
Xref: sparky can.general:2222 can.politics:3833 soc.culture.canada:3465
From: migod@turing.toronto.edu (Mike Godfrey)
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: A note on sarcasm (When do we stop being...
Keywords: Terribly, terribly long.
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:06:07 GMT
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto

In article <1992Apr15.181526.15803@watserv1.waterloo.edu> schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes:
>You know, I heard a constant fear in arab cultures (surely others also)
>is to lose one's face ("perdre la face" in French: be embarrassed...).
>
>I think that to some extent, either or both of Stephane and you,
>have been trying to "sauver la face" (save the face; refers to the
>same expression; is there an equivalent in English?).

"Lose face" and "save face" exist in English too.

I've now lost count of the number of expressions in French I've seen on the
net that tranlsate directly into English with the idiomatic meaning preserved 
(e.g. "getting up on one's high horse").

Amazing ... who says the net isn't educational ...

-- 
Mike Godfrey   	           		"Either that wallpaper goes, or I do."
Dept of Comp Sci, UofT      	         	-- allegedly, the last words
migod@turing.toronto.edu			   of Oscar Wilde
From: alan@auad.acadiau.ca (Alan McKay)
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: Re: Canada = ?
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:05:12 GMT
Distribution: can.general
Organization: Acadia University

beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) writes:

>When the spanish came across the northern lands this side of Atlantic,
>they saw a little of forest and indians, but no civilisation.
>So, they put Aca Nada on the map and turn to southern lands that they claimed.

I've heard this rumor before, but I doubt if it is true.  See my previous
post on the matter, and you'll find out at least what the government of
Canada thinks is the origin of the name.  I hope they would know!

--
Alan W. McKay		| (902)542-2201.396	| Wolfville, N.S. Canada
alan@aucs.acadiau.ca	| Acadia University	| SUB Box 6008, B0P 1Z1
Newsgroups: can.general
From: eastick@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Doug Eastick)
Subject: Info: SIMCON, Software for Integrated Manufacturing Consortium
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 00:39:27 GMT

For those that asked (a few months ago) here's the address I have for
SIMCON.

Contact:	"Dr. Christopher Eriksson, who is managing the consortium
		from offices at the Ottawa Carleton Research Institute
		(OCRI), 340 March Road, 4th Floor, Kanata, Ontario, K2K
		2E4.  Tel 613-592-8160, Fax 613-592-8163"

		--from SIMCON News, v1n1, March 1992.

Hope you find it interesting.
-- 
Doug Eastick -- Sudbury, Ontario
Xref: sparky can.general:2230 ont.general:714 soc.college.grad:999
From: perwaiz@engrg.uwo.ca (Mr. Jamshed Perwaiz)
Newsgroups: can.general,ont.general,soc.college.grad
Subject: Return air ticket to London, England
Date: 16 Apr 92 03:59:49 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: University of Western Ontario, London
Originator: perwaiz@engrg.uwo.ca

AIR TICKET TO LONDON, ENGLAND.

FLY FROM TORONTO, OTTAWA, HALIFAX OR VANCOUVER.

male or female.  RETURN TICKET.

Can be used anytime before JULY 1, 1992

Contact me ASAP.
e-mail: perwaiz@engrg.uwo.ca
phone: 519-661-2111 ext 8314
FAX: 519-661-3020
thanks 
Xref: sparky can.general:2181 can.politics:3768 soc.culture.canada:3406
From: jkramer@sunwise.UWaterloo.ca (Viscous Pig Dog)
Subject: Re: When do we stop being outsiders? (WAS Re: The Journal on ...)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 22:14:47 GMT

In article <11408@std-2> audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet) writes:
>In article (Craig Campbell) writes:
>>Well, for one Quebec is not a nation. 
>
>Of course Quebec is a nation!
>

Did I miss the smileys?

>>Is it possible, that English Canada is being used as a scapegoat for all
>>the woes in Quebec?  Nothing, including Canada is perfect.  
>
>What do you see on this net? Canada-bashing or Quebec-bashing? Who is
>accused of being racist, facist, of wanting to destroy the country?

I see both. 

And, saying that a bunch of Quebecois (correct spelling?) are trying to
destroy the country is not Quebec-bashing. A bunch of people in Quebec
want Quebec to leave Canada. If Quebec leaves Canada then the
nation of Canada will be destroyed. Pointing out this fact is not
Quebec bashing.

Jeff Kramer.
-- 

"We're goin ta find out who the better man is, a chicken or a dog ...
 I tell ya boy, your mother's the better man" , Foghorn Leghorn.
                   "Education is a right", Phhhhhht.
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: skenny@nano.engr.mun.ca (Shawn Kenny)
Subject: Re: When do we stop being outsiders? (WAS Re: The Journal on ...)
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 18:15:10 GMT

coady@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Coady Michael) writes:

>Evan Leibovitch suggested that the media in Quebec and in English
>Canada should carry columns by "rabid federalists" and "rabid
>nationalists", respectively.  It is worth noting that a step in
>this direction was taken several years ago when the Globe and Mail
>began a column by Lise Bissonette, later replaced by Lysiane Gagnon
>when Ms. Bissonette took over Le Devoir.  Similarly, Le Devoir later
>began a column by Jeffrey Simpson, a regular Globe columnist.  Granted,
>there is a hint of incest in the complementary columns, and none of
>these people would appreciate being described as rabid (nor being
>pigeonholed as nationalist or federalist).  It is, however, a step in
>the right direction.

Well I guess this would work only if the articles were well documented
and not too far out on the fringe. Otherwise most would dismiss the
articles outright as biased opinion and still not grasp any of the
differences in point of view. Thus, back at square one.
--
=================================
skenny@pico.engr.mun.ca
St. John's, NF, CANADA
"Have a touton or do without'n !"
Xref: sparky can.general:2252 can.politics:3917 soc.culture.canada:3525
From: boris@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (boris)
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Rosemere
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 03:53:07 CST
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB

craig@cattnts.canada.ncr.com (Craig Campbell) writes:

> In article <29EC4EBA.566B@telly.on.ca> evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) wri
> 
> >I would be interested in hearing more details about the city, and about
> >the campaign. I believe there may be lessons here for folks on *both*
> >sides of the issue. Nothing beats a good dose of tolerance, co-operation,
> >and benefit of the doubt.
> 
> > Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontari
> 
> Hurray!! There still are places where people are nice to each other, and
> neighbours are neighbourly.  :-) :-) :-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Craig Campbell		|	These opinions are entirely the result of a 
> Systems Engineer	|	small butterfly crashing into the far side
> NCR Canada,		|	of the planet.  Chaos Rules.
> an AT&T Company		|	I speak for no one, except, possibly, myself.

There are places like that all over. I even willing to bet that they are 
in the majority.  It is not that surprising.  The 'silent majority not 
being quite so silent.

boris

;--- (boris) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: boris@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY)
Subject: Re: A really nice, fuzzy love letter for Sylvain et al. ...
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 05:21:42 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.205006.19551@watserv1.waterloo.edu> heckman@kingcong.UWaterloo.ca (Gerald Heckman) writes:
>In article <1992Apr14.175417.16347@watserv1.waterloo.edu> schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes:
>
>>Maybe "la majorite silencieuse" (silent majority?) should do something
>>before it's too late...
>
>>(I'm not talking of silly "love letters")
>
>>Sylvain Chamberland
>>Dept. of Biology
>>University of Waterloo
>>Waterloo, Ontario
>
>Now, now, I'm sure we all like to get love letters once in a while.
>This gives me an opportunity to share one with my fellow netters. 
>
>I was waiting for the express plane from Toronto to Quebec City.
>It was close to christmas, and Pearson Intl was full of people
>whose flights had been delayed by snow squalls up in the North Bay
>area. I soon found myself talking to a man who was to have flown to 
>North Bay, and whose flight had been delayed for several hours. As this
>was in December 1990, a couple of months after the failure of the Meech
>Lake accord, and as I was waiting in the lounge mainly occupied by
>passengers flying to Quebec City, we soon were talking about the 
>Quebec-Canada situation. This man, although he had been concerned
>about the ill-defined "distinct society" clause, was worried about
>the consequences of the accord's demise. He told me that "if Quebecers
>and Canadians could just talk it over, instead of dealing through
>their media and politicians, we'd be out of this mess a lot faster."
>We spoke for quite a while longer. When it was time for me to board
>my plane, we shook hands, and he said "tell your friends in Quebec City 
>that we love them."
>
>So there Sylvain. I give you the words of a seemingly honest and 
>concerned Ontarian. Words of good will you can dismiss as "a silly 
>love letter" if you feel like it.
>
>It's up to you.
>
>Gerald Heckman
>
Well, thank you.

Reading the readers' page in my local newspaper, I don't know what's
the true feelings  of "TROCians".

Part of the reason why I came here 3 months ago was to find that out.

If I find that most TROCians feel the same way as your man, well
I may change my opinion about Quebec separation.

Still, if I keep seeing Diane Francises and other dinosaurs like Getty,
it won't help.


Sylvain Chamberland
Dept. of Biology
University of Waterloo
Waterloo, Ontario.


Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins)
Subject: Re: When do we stop being outsiders? (WAS Re: The Journal on ...)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 21:09:21 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.213617.7345@tsltor.uucp> stevew@tsltor.uucp (Stephen M. Webb) writes:
>In article <1992Apr11.015743.15715@unixg.ubc.ca> lermer@theory.chem.ubc.ca (Noah Lermer) writes:
>>  If I might add a comment here:
>>
>>I've always felt that the english usage of the word "nation" was very different
>>from the francais <<nation>>.
>>
>> In english, it almost always has the same meaning as country, i.e., a
>>  political and legal as well as cultural entity.
>> In french, I've always understood it to mean more of a cultural unit;
>>  you can be <<une nation>> without being a contry (nation != pays). Probably
>>  a better translation (IMHO) would be a people, as in the Quebec People.
>>
>>  I remeber being very confused (confus) when I first learned this!
>>
>
>Instead of relying on the definitions I learned when studying political
>geography back in my university days (I realize many of you may not have read
>the same textbooks I have - nor would I if I hadn't had to), I will consult
>my dictionary.


In political science, there are TWO main types of nations:   

1) the political nation (or constitutional nation) that defines people
exclusively by their citizenship; originating in the 16th Century,
best known example of it being the French Revolution/Rousseau model

2) the ethnic or tribal nation, originating from German Romanticism in
the late 18th century that defines nations on the basis of blood, ethnicity,
language, etc.


Dictionary definitions are not necessarily that useful for this kind of 
discussion. I think both types of nation are sort of stuck together in 
most dictionaries. 

The two nations, as defined above by political 
historians are irreconcilable. You either accept one or the other;
they are not compatable.

Ethnic nationalism leads to xenophobia, divisiveness, exclusionary laws
and racism (look at what is happening in Europe, the former USSR, and
Quebec/Canada right now.)

Political nationalism is potentially unifying. It does not deny diversity;
it only claims equal rights to all citizens based on constitutional law.
and on the principles of equality, fraternity and liberty.

Frank
(I will enter an article I have written on this subject shortly, following
its publication in May.)
From: michele@catnix.UUCP (Michele A. Simond)
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: Re: Canada = ?
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:00:35 GMT
Organization: Rhinoceros, chargez!
Reference: <1992Apr13.145142.19269@julian.uwo.ca>


s36238f@kaira.hut.fi (Tim Klemets) writes:
>
>I'm curious to hear where the name Canada comes from.  What does
>it stand for?  It doesn't sound extremely English to me, but not
>like any indian language either.  (No, I don't know any indian
>language).

It comes from an Iroquois word meaning "village". I'm not
sure weither it's A-kan-ata ou Kanata, but its one of the
other.

I've read a story by jokers that said it came from the Spanish
Aca nada (nothing there).  But since the Spanish never made it 
so far up North, this can be taken as a joke and disregarded
as an origin for the name Canada

--
   Tim.Klemets@hut.fi ** Aldrig mer en h{ftig signatur ** Fiksut signaturet 
   kypsytt{v{t minua ** Please don't expect a cool signature ** Tolle 
   Signaturen machen mich nerv|s ** Quoi? Non, je regrette, pas de signature
   pour le moment; revenez demain ** Mujeres y hombres, no tengo signaturas
   ahora - ?esta' claro? ** Nogalongo kulubumbura babullabadre


--
Michele Simond ...... Traductrice ......  B.P.: michele@catnix.UUCP
(514) 671-8820				   OU :	michele%catnix@cam.org
Newsgroups: acadia.cs.chat,can.general,can.jobs,ont.general,ont.jobs,comp.jobs