HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ulick@chopin.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: Mona (was Re: Eagles Reaches Church of Asatru
Organization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 18:36:44 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.091337.13949@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> ggrieve@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (greig.grieve) writes:
>
>The book claims that Lindow man was a druid prince who was offered in pro-
>pitiation in 60AD after the Romans had defeated Boudicca and devastated Mona
>(Anglesey). Also, that the signifcance of Mona to the Druids lay in the fact
>that it was close to Dublin in the sacred island of Ireland. Gold from the
>Wicklow mountains was imported to the west along Watling street, and the druids
>controlled this traffic.

Eh?  When I studied Caesar in secondary school, Mona was translated as the
Isle of Man.  Was my text wrong (or Caesar... he reckoned that it wouldn't
get dark in the Norternmost regions of Britain, Caledonia, I guess, in the
summer)?


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Runrig and Romans One
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 21:47:57 GMT

I was reading the lyrics to the second last track on the "Cutter and the
Clan" album (the track with the native american beat to it), and noticed
that one line goes something like "Romans One facing Satans stare".
Romans one, however, is one of the biblical passages which is used to
condem homosexuality, so is it correct to view Runrig as being an
anti-homosexual (or even homophobic) band, or have I miss understood the
meaning of this particular lyric?

														GW
From: kellyc@ul.ie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Horslips
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:31:07 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland

In article <1992Sep9.180703.12712@bmw.mayo.edu>, tmk@mayo.edu (Tom Kinter) writes:
> Whatever became of that most fabulous band: Horslips?

duhhh.... they broke up.

Cathal


---------------------------------------------
|     Cathal Kelly                             
|     Ollscoil Luimnigh (Uni. Limerick),    For the benefit of 
|     National Technological Park,          the non-Irish the
| IRL Limerick                              't' in 'Cathal' is       |
|                                           silent and the name      |
      (Ireland)                             is attached to the       |
                                            male of the species.     |
      kellyc@ul.ie                                                   | 
                                --------------------------------------
From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re:  What Clan and What Tartan
Date: 11 Sep 92 11:21:43 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <1992Sep11.091109.14314@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
>From: downey@enh.nist.gov
>>Matt,
>>
>>Will you please let people have some fun!  It's OK if someone wants
>>to find out what tartan is "supposed to be" their family tartan.
>>As Morna said, Ms. Bonham does not need (and IMHO does not deserve)
>>your harsh words.  Why do you find it so difficult to let people
>>make a connection with the past?
>
>Because I am actually interested in REAL connections with the
>past, not tarted-up romanticised versions. I am simply putting
>my point of view in the interests of historical accuracy, it is
>quite open for someone else to put the "fun" point of view in
>the interests of the Scottish tourist industry.
>

All she did was enquire about a tartan and you publicly insulted her.

You could have expressed your views on the likelyhood or otherwise
of her finding a Bonham tartan, and pointed out that in your and many
others opinions, there was unlikely ever to have been a Bonham clan
tearing about the heather in cute matching outfits without being so
rude.



I haven't seen you apologise for implying she was some kind of
"sword and sorcery" ignoramus yet either.


My apologies if you have done so privately.



M

--
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.
From: gedge@cm.cf.ac.uk (Geraint A Edwards)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Mona (was Re: Eagles Reaches Church of Asatru
Date: 8 Sep 92 14:21:20 GMT
Organization: I'm at, not speaking for: Uni of Wales, College of Cardiff

cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear) writes:
} Mona was definitely Anglesey.

Anglesey is now known as Ynys Mo^n, reverting to it's previous name.

Gedge
--
Geraint A Edwards, Computing PhD student. From Windows to OS/2 v2.0--50 quid.
gedge@cm.cf.ac.uk ...!uunet!mcsun!uknet!cf-cm!gedge
Graphic-free .sig's rule! Unix+Usenet 0pence/hr, Spuddy +44 203 638780
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: librik@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David Librik)
Subject: Re: Mona (was Re: Eagles Reaches Church of Asatru
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 07:14:30 GMT

ulick@chopin.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:

>Eh?  When I studied Caesar in secondary school, Mona was translated as the
>Isle of Man.  Was my text wrong (or Caesar... he reckoned that it wouldn't
>get dark in the Norternmost regions of Britain, Caledonia, I guess, in the
>summer)?

I will no doubt not be the only person to point this out, but: Mona is
definitely Anglesey.  Mona (now Mo^n) is the Welsh word for Anglesey,
after all.  Of course, there might have been a massive cover-up, who knows
what those Welsh are up to.

The traditional view of Druidism is that Anglesey was its center.  This
is still the view Welsh academics hold.  Druidic (British) resistance
crumbled pretty fast after the Romans took Ynys Mo^n.

- David Librik
librik@cory.Berkeley.edu

...for whom the sign "MO^N - MAM CYMRU" still summons up the feeling of
stumbling through a bitter drizzle whipped in the face by the constant wind
as he crosses that bridge day after day in the winter.
From: cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Celts, Picts, and Stuff
Date: 12 Sep 92 09:07:46 GMT
Organization: University of Keele, England

From article <1992Sep11.184646.8739@news.clarkson.edu>, by walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,):
> Celtic Britain and Ireland by L. Laing & J. Laing
> Pub. St. Martins Press (1990)
> 
> This book also has a good section (Chapter) on the Picts.
> 
Don't people have worries about the Laings? Their book on Celtic Britain
was very badly received and certainly contained some dubious arguments
about subRoman Britain to this classicist's eye. Wouldn't like to vouch
for the earlier stuff. Comments any one??

Andy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: Scots or Picts (was Celtic alchoholism?)
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:49:11 GMT

From article <1992Sep10.033849.13907@cos.com>, by cooper@cos.com (Gary Cooper):
> In <92239.193651ATDYW@ASUACAD.BITNET> Dan Wilson <ATDYW@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:
> 
>>Wasn't Robert de Brus' mother a Celt? I seem to recall he relied heavily on
>>his Celtic blood to gain the confidence of the Highland Chiefs that he
>>needed so deperately.
> 
> Yes she was - and since, I believe, the Celts were a somewhat
> matriarchal society, shouldn't the census check through the
> mother through about 250 generations? :>  
> -- 
> gary cooper (not the dead one)     "Non Dignis Sum!" - Waynus and Gartus 

As I read it the Picts were definately used a matrilinear system of
inheritance and may have been a matriarchal society (probably they were
neither very patriarchal or matriarchal). The celts tended to be a more
partriarchal society. This topic is well discussed in the book called
"Women of the Celts" by Jean Markel (sp?); that is Jean as in John).

															GW

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: FYI - Politics in NI
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 20:13:27 GMT

From article <1992Sep4.163734.28327@octel.com>, by dfair@octel.com (Donald Fair):
> In article <1992Sep3.143605.22208@news.clarkson.edu> walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) writes:
>>From article <CC.92Sep3123403@arran.dcs.ed.ac.uk>, by cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke):
>>> In article <1992Sep2.161310.6476@news.clarkson.edu> walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) writes:
>>> 
>>> The peoples of Scotland variously spoke Norse, Gaelic, Inglis (later Scots),
>>> and Welsh.  I would think that most of the Scottish settlers spoke Scots when
>>> they moved to Ulster, though I don't know for sure.
>>> --
>>> 	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
>>
> 
> 	Is it not true that Ireland was invaded in much the same
> 	way that scotland was. That is first came the Iberian
> 	Celts then the norse then the Roman (or was it the other way?)
> 	Then the normans. Yes normans where relocated norsemen (and women)
> 	However they had picked up other cultures along the way.
> 	For thoes who wish to preserve a pure race concept
> 	explain Strongbow to me.
> 	Aren't all those towers to defend against
> 	the norse? Also, doesn't the height and red and blond hair
> 	come from these invasions. Is it impossible that the 
> 	Irish also spoke different languages at different times
> 	in seperate areas across Ireland. The idea that the
> 	Irish are a purer race seems somehow to be evading
> 	the facts that are carved in stone all over Ireland.
> 
> -- 
> _____________________________________________
> Donald H. Fair       Software Sanitation Eng.
> dfair@octel.com     "They're all small when 
> standard disclaimer  They're blue." papa smurf 
> ---------------------------------------------

Point 1. Even though you have my e-mail address all over the top of this
posting I did not make the above  quote, as the bottom of the message
suggests it may have come from Chris Cooke.

Point 2. Way back in the mists of time, when I questioned M.H.'s
statement about Celtic symbols and there association with the catholics
and not the protestants, I was trying to make the same point (as I think
you are trying to make) about the diverse cultural background of the
protestants who live in NI, and that they might also have an arguement
that celtic imagery is also part of their background.

													GW

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn)
Subject: Re:  Scottish Gaelic weekend in Aberdeen
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Reading, England
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:29:05 GMT


In article <1992Sep13.190426.14601@rdg.dec.com>, cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn) writes...
> 
>It is intended to hold a weekend course on the above date, probably at
>Aberdeen University covering all standards from the complete beginner

I forgot to say that the above date is 27/28 March 93

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Reading, England.     Suas
  Internet: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com                           leis
  UUCP:..!decwrl!edieng.enet.dec.com!cockburn                      a'
                                                                   Gha\idhlig!
  Views here are my own, and are not necessarily those of Digital
From: carl@class.gsfc.nasa.gov (Carl F. Hostetter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Name "Edwin"
Date: 10 Sep 92 20:50:20 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.celtic
Distribution: all
Organization: NASA/GSFC

In article <BuA1AL.IH9@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, esharp@sage.cc.purdue.edu
(Edwin Sharp) wrote:
> 
> I have been wondering what my name (Edwin) means.  I think it might have a celtic origin as it was an Edwin ( this is from an official looking city brouchure I got when I was there) who founded Edinburgh.  Any help would be great!  
> Edwin Sharp
> Esharp@sage.cc.purdue.edu

"Edwin" comes from the Anglo-Saxon "Eadwine", which means "Bliss-friend".
("Ead" 'bliss', "wine" 'friend)

Carl F. Hostetter
carl@class.gsfc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: mongoose@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Conrad Leviston)
Subject: Re: News: Druids invented by French cartoonist
Organization: Monash University General Access Unix
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 11:50:39 GMT

halpin@vax.oxford.ac.uk wrote:
: In yesterday's Review section of the English Sunday Independent
: there's an interesting profile of Garry Hynes, the artistic director
: of the Abbey Theatre (with a suitable ``**** the begrudgers'' subtext,
: as she seems to be getting a lot of stick from the Dublin
: intelligentsia). 
: 
: The reason I bring it up here is something mentioned in passing in the
: article, which piqued my interest: Hynes and others set up the Druid
: Theatre in Galway, and according to the article named it after a
: ``character in the Asterix cartoon series''. 
: 
: Has anyone got the lowdown on this? Is all this celtic stuff a figment
: of the imaginations of Goscinny and Uderzo???

	If this is true then they must have invented Caesar as well, and
then written fictitious accounts of the Gallic wars, which mention druids.
Then of course they'd have had to sprinkle references to Julius Caesar all
over the place. Written a Shakespeare play and changed the calendar to
name but two of their tasks.
	People think the Germans have a great work ethic, what about the
Belgians? 
	Bet the people who practice Wicca are going to be pissed when they
find out.

: 
: yours,
: 
: Chaotix.
: 
: Brendan Halpin                    Email: HALPIN@VAX.OXFORD.AC.UK
: Nuffield College                  Phone: +44 865 278642
: Oxford OX1 1NF
: United Kingdom
-- 
Conrad Leviston	 | Got to find a brightness in the soul,
mongoose@yoyo.	 | Not look outside to find out where we are,
cc.monash.edu.au | Otherwise you won't be satisfied, 
Save the gherkin | 'Til you've made possession of the stars. (K.Wallinger)
From: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn)
Subject: Re: Gaelic && The Celtic Society
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Reading, England
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 05:59:35 GMT


In article <athos-100992092917@athos.apple.com>, athos@apple.com (Rick Eames) writes...
>I am looking for information on the Celtic Society.
> 
I've never heard about this society - do you mean the Celtic league?

>Also, if anyone has information on where to learn Gaelic in the SF Bay
>Area, I'd love to know! 
> 
I've passed your request onto GAELIC-L. you might get a reply from there.

Craig

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Reading, England.     Suas
  Internet: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com                           leis
  UUCP:..!decwrl!edieng.enet.dec.com!cockburn                      a'
                                                                   Gha\idhlig!
  Views here are my own, and are not necessarily those of Digital
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:5854 soc.culture.china:25064 soc.culture.esperanto:1690 soc.culture.greek:8613 soc.culture.japan:7803 soc.culture.misc:376 talk.religion.misc:15868
From: aflynn@osc.COM (Anthony Flynn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.french,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.europe,rec.travel,rec.travel.air
Subject: Excellent Travel Agent for flights to Europe
Keywords: Air fares, cheap, UK, Europe
Date: 8 Sep 92 17:25:52 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: na
Organization: Versant Object Technology, Menlo Park, CA


Anyone thinking about flying to Europe from the U.S. might want
to give this guy a call:

Paul Downey
Celtic Travel
3520 Geary Blvd,
San Francisco, CA 94118

(415) 386-7774
(800) 323-5842

Fares seem to run about $200-$400 cheaper than the regular scheduled
fares, at least to London. Unlike some other travel agents, they
don't "sell" people stand-by seats, either, so you don't have to worry
about not being able to get back! They've just announced Christmas
period fares which are the best I've been able to find. As far as I'm
aware, he has reasonable fares available from anywhere in the country,
especially California.

Tell them you read about them on the Usenet Computer News Network.

No, I don't work for these people !->

--Anthony Flynn
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn)
Subject: Re: Celtic languages 
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Reading, England
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 20:42:17 GMT


In article <1992Sep4.170332.8773@rdg.dec.com>, I wrote...
> 
>From what I can remember, the list is:
> 
>Insular Celtic 
>P-Celtic: Welsh, Breton, Cornish, Cumbric(extinct)
>Q-Celtic: Scots Gaelic, Irish Gaelic, Manx
> 
>Non Insular Celtic (all extinct)
>Gaulish (France)
>Galatian (Spain)
>I think there was another in the middle east
> 
Here's the corrected version, from the Cambridge encyclopedia of language.

Goidelic (Q-Celtic)
Scots Gaelic
Irish Gaelic
Manx
(this branch entered the British Isles when a wave of Celts left the
Bordeaux area of France in the 4th century BC. These three languages 
descend from "Common Gaelic" and started to become distinct around
the 10th century AD)

Brythonic (P-Celtic)
Cumbrian (extinct)
Welsh
Cornish
Breton (descended mainly from Cornish)

Both the above branches are "insular Celtic". The languages below (all
extinct) are "Continental Celtic"

Celtiberian (Spain) (found in partly decipherable inscriptions in the
north and east of Spain)
Gaulish (France, north Italy, Belgium, north Germany, Netherlands)
Galatian (Balkans, Turkey, Bulgaria, Romania, Russia)
  Galation remained in use until about the 5th century AD.

These three languages are not related in the sense that the three
Gaelics are related. They form three seperate branches in their own right.

The book also mentions a Celtic language called "Leponic" which has
been found in Switzerland on inscriptions from the 2nd century BC. No
mention of Leponic is made in the Indo-European tree given in the book.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Reading, England.     Suas
  Internet: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com                           leis
  UUCP:..!decwrl!edieng.enet.dec.com!cockburn                      a'
                                                                   Gha\idhlig!
  Views here are my own, and are not necessarily those of Digital
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: bdisney@cwis.unomaha.edu (Bridget Anne Disney)
Subject: Re: Birthday bumps
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 03:50:19 GMT

Bridget Disney
Omaha, Nebraska
From: cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Eagles Reaches Church of Asatru
Date: 5 Sep 92 10:55:57 GMT
Organization: University of Keele, England

From article <26085@dog.ee.lbl.gov>, by mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm):
> 
> This is QUITE wrong, or at best, it could be said that the situation
> is ever so much more complicated and obscure than Matthew describes.
> I suggest a _careful_ reading of Tacitus' Germania & some of Julius
> Caesar about Gaul

There is a theory that Caesar invented the difference between Germans
and Celts for purely political reasons. However I think that there are
traces of a celtic/German divide to be found in Tacitus' Histories
amongst these two peoples themselves. Cerialis' speech to Gauls during
Civilis' uprising certainly suggests this to my mind (sorry don't have
reference to hand), though how far this reflects reality rather than Roman rhetoric judged to be suitable
to th occasion is a moot point. This latter point needs to be thought
about long and hard with regard to the Germania too. Tacitus
probably never set foot in Germany, nor is a straight forward
ethnographic survey his sole agenda - there's a lot of noble savage
moralising to point up the ills of Roman Society. Where truth stops and
fanatsy starts here is very difficult to say. 

Andy
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: tmk@mayo.edu (Tom Kinter)
Subject: Horslips
Reply-To: tmk@mayo.edu
Organization: Mayo Clinic/Foundation Rochester MN Campus
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 18:07:03 GMT

Whatever became of that most fabulous band: Horslips?
From: ah@dunaad.co.uk (Alan Hunter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: HR, ECOSSE
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:58:58 GMT
Organization: Johnson Hunter Limited

In article <BuLAEI.9oA@exnet.co.uk> dhd@exnet.co.uk (Damon) writes:
>In article <1992Sep14.163034.28110@rdg.dec.com> cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn) writes:
>>
>But I have been waiting *ages* to say that.  As an Englishman in
>Scotland (albeit a Yorkshireman) one is made to labour under the
>continual impression that being English is like child abuse.  

I'm betting that you got that idea somewhere to the east and south of the
country.  Antagonism towards the English (actually I keep telling people
I'm a Geordie but the poor bairns can't really tell the difference) is
almost entirely absent here within the native population.  Its visible
from Scots incomers and, like any other community, there plenty of
prejudice about based on all kinds of factors.  The farmers like the EEC
though.

Shortly after we moved here I asked an Ileach what he thought of
independance for Scotland, wouldn't he rather be run from Edinburgh than
London?  Well now Alan, would you be wanting me to cut off my left arm or
my right arm? was his reponse, he went on to mention that there were an
awful lot of lawyers in Edinburgh:-)

Alan

-- 
Alan Hunter
Johnson Hunter Ltd
Isle of Islay, Scotland
A.Hunter@dunaad.co.uk          fax: +44-496-2336         voice: +44-496-2286
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:5808 soc.culture.china:24787 soc.culture.esperanto:1653 soc.culture.greek:8501 soc.culture.japan:7719 soc.culture.misc:367 talk.religion.misc:15647
From: halpin@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Mona (was Re: Eagles Reaches Church of Asatru
Date: 8 Sep 92 09:20:01 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

ulick@chopin.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:
> ggrieve@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (greig.grieve) writes:
>>
>>The book claims that Lindow man was a druid prince who was offered in pro-
>>pitiation in 60AD after the Romans had defeated Boudicca and devastated Mona
>>(Anglesey). Also, that the signifcance of Mona to the Druids lay in the fact
>>that it was close to Dublin in the sacred island of Ireland. Gold from the
>>Wicklow mountains was imported to the west along Watling street, and the druids
>>controlled this traffic.
> 
> Eh?  When I studied Caesar in secondary school, Mona was translated as the
> Isle of Man.  Was my text wrong (or Caesar... he reckoned that it wouldn't
> get dark in the Norternmost regions of Britain, Caledonia, I guess, in the
> summer)?
> 
> + 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +

Leaving pass the faint daftness of the Druids in locating themselves
near to a town that wouldn't be founded for another three-quarters of
a millenium, I think Mona is actually Anglesey. In Welsh at any rate,
it's Ynys M^on.

But perhaps both islands are named for similar reasons. And maybe this
reason is Mannana/n Mac Lir? The Isle of Man is Oilean Mhanann in Irish
-- am I barking up the wrong tree?

(I'm half afraid to explain that Mannana/n Mac Lir was a sort of god
of the sea... :-)

Brendan

Brendan Halpin                    Email: HALPIN@VAX.OXFORD.AC.UK
Nuffield College                  Phone: +44 865 278642
Oxford OX1 1NF
United Kingdom