HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: andrew@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Falcon operating system...
Date: 9 Oct 92 15:55:14 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

I've been reading many articles about the Falcon's graphics, sound and hardware
capabilities.  I've even read a long discussion about the case design. However 
as far as I can see there has been no mention about the kind of operating 
system that it will have and also what kind of in-built application software
it might have.

What improvements have been made to the Desktop and GEM(ugh!)?
Does the operating system make use of the DSP for it's own processing (perhaps
window management or bitblts?) or will the chip sit unused except for the
occasional application designed specifically for the Falcon?

I heard that it will have two O.S.'s.  One which is used as on other ST's and
another multitasking version called MiNT (Mint is NOW Tos) and then this
will have its own multitasking desktop.    It was a long time ago that I read
this so I may be completely wrong but I would like to be clarified.  

Please tell me and other "netters" more about the current software status
of the Falcon.

--  
*Andrew Hague -- Research Student -- Computer Aided Learning & On-Line Lectures*
 Dept. of Computer Science, University of York, York, Y01 5DD (+44/0)904 432762
 EMAIL: andrew@minster.york.ac.uk 
 "And... why not?"
From: okes@essex.ac.uk (Oke S)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: comp.sys.atari.falcon
Date: 11 Oct 92 16:24:02 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Essex, UK.
In-reply-to: u0h36@seq1.keele.ac.uk's message of 11 Oct 92 14:20:57 GMT

In article <Bvynuy.D5I@gabriel.keele.ac.uk> u0h36@seq1.keele.ac.uk (Adam Turnbull) writes:
   From article <memo.675924@cix.compulink.co.uk>, by kjackson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Keith Jackson):
|>> 
|>> In article <4353@wet.UUCP>, ekrimen@wet.UUCP (Ed Krimen) writes:
|>>>
|>>>So, anyone in the UK want to tell us if the Falcons are shipping?  Glen,
|>>>you and I still can't buy one -- unless you want to order it from overseas.
|>> 
|>> There haven't been any advertisements or announcements as of 10th October.
|>> 
|>> Keith

|>Yes there has - Gasteiner are selling them (see STF / STU or whatever)

No, Gasteiner are _advertising_ them!

--
This signature is copyright 12/6/1992 Simon Oke. All rights reserved. If you
like it and keep a copy for your own use, you owe me $20. Please pass it on
to your friends with all documentation.              Email okes@essex.ac.uk.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live long and prosper.
From: jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Distribution: world
Organization:  One of these days for sure
X-News: HERMES MMAIL 1.04 Rev. Sep  5 1992
Subject: Re: Case Design for Falcon
	<annius.718622758@freyr>
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1992 13:06:28 -0700

In <annius.718622758@freyr> annius@sif.research.ptt.nl (Annius Groenink) writes:

>This is why most musicians tend to use Ataris in the studio (if the Atari gets
>tired you just go and get a cup of coffee) and Macs on stage. The SM124 is
>absolutely unreliable and can drop out any moment if it gets too hot or too
>cold. The Macs seem to be a lot less critical.

	I remember seeing a picture of a lcd monitor for the Atari in a picture 
from one of the Dusseldorf shows a year or so back. Does anyone know what 
happened to it? Was it too expensive to get anywhere.


-- 
       John Henders      jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca
    I think your "evolutionary scale" needs an adjustment.  Either 
      that, or you've got your thumb on it. -> (lefty@apple.com)

Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: humphrie@wam.umd.edu (James B. Humphries)
Subject: Re: Falcon 040 / Windowing UNIX
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:10:05 GMT

>1) Memory. Running a complete X setup (server, xterm + shell, application,
>        window manager) likes a lot of memory. I only have seen this running
>	on virtual memory systems -- probably the way to go. But this will
>       exclude all ST models (because of 4Meg real memory limit, and no
>     virtual memory models). TT, Falcon, ST+68030 can be made to run
>      with VM. Does MiNT support this yet?


a) I have a friend who has X11r4 running RELIABLY and fast enough for non- 
intensive programs on a 386, 25MHz with 4 megs of memory (over Linux yet).  

b) VM does not always require hardware VM.  His system is into swap space after
his first or second window... but it isn't too slow. 


>2) Connection method. X likes a decent network to connect server and 
>       clients. Basically, TCP/IP and DECNET are supported (major).
>      Is such a beast available for MiNT? (OK, for starters sockets may
>     do. But see 3.)

c) Ethernet is nice for that... why shouldn't the Falcon/TT have it?  I don't 
see it as a problem.  

-Hey hardware hacks, E-net do-albe?   

d) you can do some X junk over a fast modem too (minimal).  They do it here
at work.


>3) In most business setups networks are heavily used; one of the strengths
>        of X is (IMHO) the power to run on every machine from your
>        local display. However, for decent performance one want ethernet,
>        or similar speeds. Is this available for many ST's? And does
>        MiNT support that?
>

e) Business is not the only user of X.  For instance:  I want X because it is my
OS/GUI of preferance and I would like to be able to work with it at home
(development etc).  I am sure there are jillions of other uses for X even
without a large network/ server.  I do agree that the networking of X is
a great strength.  


>Klamer

(Thanks for your input.  I was wondering what others thought about X. )


I think X has a place on ANY system that is powerful enough to run it.  
One thing about X: you don't have to BEG for developers or pay for the 
OS... X is THERE and basicly FREE... software is next thing to totally 
UNIVERSAL under X.  Perfect for ATARI who can't seem to keep any large 
software developer around.


-- 
		"Hello teenage america" -KMFDM sample
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|   humphrie@wam.umd.edu (regular)    |	       NeXT mail		     |
|   humphrie@ni.umd.edu  (work)	      |	          me!			     |
From: jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Writing E-mails to GEnie.
Date: 13 Oct 92 20:37:00 GMT
	<1992Oct13.035249.10987@hemlock.cray.com>
Organization: One of these days for sure
X-News: HERMES MMAIL 1.04 Rev. Sep  5 1992

In <1992Oct13.035249.10987@hemlock.cray.com> marc@hemlock.cray.com (Marc Bouron) writes:
>In article <1992Oct12.215901.18054@prime.mdata.fi>, paetau@mits.mdata.fi (Rasmus Paetau) writes:
>> 
>> Is it possible to write e-mails to somebody at GEnie? To be more
>> specific, what address do I use to write to S.PRICE19 on GEnie?

>This was mentioned about a week ago.  Apparently the answer (for this specific
>case) is: S.PRICE19@genie.geis.com.

    It should also be mentioned, if it wasn't before, that this only
works if the GEnie user has signed up for the Internet mail option. From
what I've heard, this is expensive enough that few users are doing so.
    There was a discussion on another newsgroup about this a while ago,
and  people were speculating as to how long it would take for GEnie to
shut it  down if users started using it to access mail servers on the
internet. From what I remember, the cost would be out of line, unless
you were to use it for  getting uuencoded binaries, or subscribed to a
lot of mailing lists.



-- 

 "If Rush fans were braindead, why are there so   Bruce Bufalini
 many people posting to alt.music.rush?"              PSU
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: ekrimen@wet.UUCP (Ed Krimen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Falcon 040 so soon? (was Re: Tramiel's got the spirit)
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:05:29 GMT
Organization: Wetware Diversions, San Francisco

In article <1992Oct14.192318.25937@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jreiss@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Joseph W Reiss) writes:
>
>Umm, this should be a neat trick.  Considering that it's Oct. 92 now
>and we still haven't seen the Falcon030, just how does Atari propose
>to get an 040 out in the next 2 1/2 months?
>
>I'm assuming this is a typo.  Anybody who has read the article care to
>correct this?  I, like many others I'm sure, am considering biting the
>bullet and upgrading my aging 1040 to a Falcon.  I'm just wanting to
>know which one it will be. :-)

There was a post recently stating that someone saw resumes from a couple
of engineers at Atari and one of their latest accomplishments was the
completion of the Falcon040.

I'm sure Atari's been working on it simultaneously with the Falcon030.  They're
not going to say, "Okay, we're finished with the Falcon030.  Let's start
the Falcon040."  They're probably working on them at the same time.

Atari could very well introduce the Falcon040 at COMDEX.  Apparently a lot of
applications and stuff (<-- good word) are going to introduced there from
several Atari vendors.

-- 
   |||    Ed Krimen
   |||    ekrimen@wet.uucp   Contributing Editor, Atari Explorer Online
  / | \   E.KRIMEN (GEnie)            Vice-President, ABACUS User Group
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 12:03:11 -0400 
From: Stefan Monnier <osoelgaultier+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Falcon and Hard Drives

Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.atari.st: 14-Oct-92 Falcon and Hard
Drives andrew@minster.york.ac.u (715)

> I read an advert yesterday claiming that the internal hard disk interface of
> the new Falcon030 is a IDE standard yet the external drives can run off a
> SCSI-2 bus.  Is this true???

> If it is then why do Gasteiner(sp?) and ultimately Atari hope to sell the
> Falcon with 64Mb HD for 400 pounds more than the machine without HD.  One can
> easily buy a 100+ Mb HD for less than 200 pounds with an IDE interface.
> Intenal SCSI drives of similar capacity can be bought for less than 300
> pounds.

> -Andrew

Don't forget the 64M drive is internal: there isn't that much place, so
that the drive is 2"1/2: it's quite a bit more expensive !
And the price difference is also for 4 MB instead of 1M

The price difference may be important, that's true. But what about other
companies ?
	NeXT with 16MB is 1000$ more expensive than the same configuration
	with 8MB !!
I can find 8MB for about 200$, and put them into the simms sockets myself !

	Stefan

-----------------------------------------------------
-- On the average, people seem to be acting normal --
-----------------------------------------------------





Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: martini@heaven7.in-berlin.de (Martin P. Ibert)
Subject: Re: uucp for TOS
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 18:24:33 GMT
Organization: The Seventh Heaven, Berlin, Germany

rjwalsh@maths.tcd.ie (Robert Walsh) writes:
> True, but UUCP also allows you to send and recieve mail and UseNet news
> directly from and to your Atari ST/whatever. A package does exist (in
> fact several do, if I remember rightly). One is called Mercury UUCP (I may
> have the name wrong),

The name is quite correct, but Mercury is no longer supported (it has been
that way for years now). Try Hermes instead. (I wrote that.)
-- 
___*___  Martin P. Ibert - Westendallee 100 d, D-1000 Berlin 19 - +4930-3056541
=======  E-mail to martini@{heaven7.{in-berlin.de|sub.org}|cloud9.in-berlin.de}
||| |||  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
||| |||  ------ Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die ------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: marc@hemlock.cray.com (Marc Bouron)
Subject: Re: Writing E-mails to GEnie.
Originator: marc@hemlock
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 13 Oct 92 03:52:49 CDT


In article <1992Oct12.215901.18054@prime.mdata.fi>, paetau@mits.mdata.fi (Rasmus Paetau) writes:
> 
> Is it possible to write e-mails to somebody at GEnie? To be more
> specific, what address do I use to write to S.PRICE19 on GEnie?
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> | Rasmus Paetau (paetau@mits.mdata.fi) | Waiting for the Atari Falcon |
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------

This was mentioned about a week ago.  Apparently the answer (for this specific
case) is: S.PRICE19@genie.geis.com.

Cheers,

[M][a][r][c]
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: martini@heaven7.in-berlin.de (Martin P. Ibert)
Subject: Re: uucp for TOS
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 19:34:31 GMT
Organization: The Seventh Heaven, Berlin, Germany

jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders) writes:
>     If you need UUCP because you want news and mail, check atari.archive
> for hermes103, and buy an english-german dictionary.
Don't! Look for Hermes 1.04 anywhere, buy that dictionary and keep my e-mail
address ready!
-- 
___*___  Martin P. Ibert - Westendallee 100 d, D-1000 Berlin 19 - +4930-3056541
=======  E-mail to martini@{heaven7.{in-berlin.de|sub.org}|cloud9.in-berlin.de}
||| |||  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
||| |||  ------ Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die ------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: hjv@phil.ruu.nl (Hendrik Jan Veenstra)
Subject: Re: Falcon in Holland
Organization: Department of Philosophy, University of Utrecht, The Netherlands
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 11:20:15 GMT

annius@sif.research.ptt.nl (Annius Groenink) writes:

>hjv@phil.ruu.nl (Hendrik Jan Veenstra) writes:



>>Hendrik "I love my vacuum-cleaner too" Jan

>I sometimes call my SH204 the `vacuum cleaner'... :) And as long as your REAL
>brain is OK you don't really need more than a 20 Meg Seagate and 500K cache
>memory.

20 Meg sufficient??? Hahahahaha hmmppffff grrrnaaaa whoeoeoehahahahahaha
Come on, it's a joke, not? Yes? Isn't it? Or... %--->)))


--
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  |  hjv@phil.ruu.nl  |   You look for your dreams in
Dept. of Philosophy   |                   |   heaven, but what the hell are
University of Utrecht |                   |   you supposed to do when they
The Netherlands       |                   |   come true...?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: naffara@crc.ac.uk (Dr. N.A. Affara)
Subject: Chaos on atari.archive!
Organization: MRC Human Genome Resource Centre
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 10:54:11 GMT

Can anyone tell me what directory the game Chaos is on atari.archive?

I think it was uploaded about a week ago (?).

Also, how is it archived? (arc, zoo, lzh?)

Thanks for the help,
Phil
(E-mail naffara@uk.ac.crc)

-- 
Kryten (When Cat says why don't we raise the defensive shields?) "A superlative
suggestion sir,with only two drawbacks: one,we don't have any defensive shields
and two,we don't have any defensive shields.I know that,technically,that's only
one drawback,but it was such a big one I thought I'd mention it twice".
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: C556212@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Jeoff Hines)
Subject: Is there a good real-time MOD player for an ST user?
Organization: University of Missouri
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 22:49:22 CDT

  I really love MODs!!   I have about 20 Megs of 'em and growing! (anyone
interested?? I'd like to share).
  Now, I like the sound quality of Noise Tracker 1.5.  By far it is the best
I have heard.  I have tried Paula 2.0b with Petra driver.  The sound quality
was less than desirable, but the speed was perfect.  I also tried MPLAY 1.3
but the speed was too slow.  NoiseTracker was too fast.  I feel like
Goldilocks here!  Does anyone have the MOD player/editor that is just right?
Something with the quality of NoiseTracker but the speed compatibility of
Paula.  I  have only heard of PD/shareware MOD editors/players, are there
any commercial ones?
  Thanks in adv.
Jeoff Hines            c556212@mizzou1.missouri.edu
From: Peter.Kocourek@p13.f112.n100.z60.wlink.nl (Peter Kocourek)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Which programming language?
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1992 20:25:26 -0100

In a message of <08 Oct 92  11:39:17>, Jan T. Kim  writes:

 JT> I don't agree. GFA basic offers full access to GEM too,  plus  it
 JT> offers  some  powerful  and  convenient commands and functions to
 JT> handle GEM without having to worry about low level stuff (e.g. to
 JT> create  a  menu  you  just  put the menu titles and items into an
 JT> array of strings and then you do a MENU x$()).

Yes, but GFA itself is an unclean application; it does all sorts of horrible things the programmer has no influence over whatsoever. The bug list of GFA is endless. I could email it to you (it's in German, but your .de address suggests you won't mind. :-)) At least, if they finally got email working on this end.


YHS:QSI!
From: micro@imada.ou.dk (Klaus Pedersen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Mint versus Powerdos
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:48:26 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Math. & Computer Science, Odense University, Denmark

davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu writes:

>A side note to those of you who are using UNIXMODE in coding your programs --
>don't.  It just makes it that much more difficult figure out whether the
>installation instructions you've given are bombing out because of the UNIXMODE
>being set up incorrectly, or because of program incompatibilities, or because
>of faulty installation instructions.  EMACS 18.58 comes to mind as a perfect
>example of a UNIXMODE program which proved worthless because of a combination
>of the above.  [Note:  read that as 'worthless to me' ... I understand that
>others have gotten the program to work quite nicely for them after a bit of
>struggle].

Please explain how to get Emacs to run. I have tried everything, but I always
get : "Your terminal isn't powerfull enough to run Emacs".
What is UNIXMODE?


-Klaus
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: sanders@sci.kun.nl (Sander Stoks)
Subject: Re: New Mac Prices tough on Falcon
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 09:36:40 GMT

In <1992Oct7.130423.15499@zooid.guild.org> Mark Kovarski <kovarski@zooid.guild.org> writes:

[ Stuff deleted about PowerPC and such ]

>The best thing for Atari Corp. is to sell the company to _RESPONSIBLE_
>people that really care about the company.
... and turn it into the umpteenth MS-DOS clone company. No thanks. I
read somewhere that Tramiel said "We'd rather go bankrupt than make
boring PC-clones." (or similar). Now THAT's an attitude.


>Regards,
>Mark K.
>E-Mail: kovarski@zooid.guild.org

Sander SToks
sanders@sci.kun.nl
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: hyc@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov (Howard Chu)
Subject: Re: MINT?
Organization: SAR Systems Development & Processing, JPL
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 09:21:32 GMT

In article <9210141908.AA04432@bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Your Conscience <dhbutler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> writes:
>Ok, I finally give in, could someone please (briefly) tell me what MINT will do
>for me (will it run GEM apps? TOS programs etc...), where I can get the latest 
>version, and what problems does it have.
>
>Thanks!

At the most basic level, it will let you run all your TOS and GEM apps exactly as
before. Using one of the utility programs that comes with it, you can start up any
number of TOS programs as background jobs from inside your favorite shell. Or
you can get one of the many shells that have been ported to MiNT and have full
BSD C-shell style job control. With one of a number of separate utilities, you
can have any number of TOS programs running concurrently with a single GEM app.
Those are the kinds of things you can use MiNT for if you're just interested in
continuing to use your ST, and not interested in programming. If you're into
programming you can take advantage of all the other Unix-flavor enhancements
that MiNT provides, e.g., fork, exec, pipe, ptys, signals, shared memory, etc...
-- 
  -- Howard Chu @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA

All true wisdom is conveyed in one-line witticisms.
From: aeg03@rrz.uni-koeln.de (Jan T. Kim)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: GFA news: Richter's address
Date: 13 Oct 92 00:14:28 GMT
Reply-To: kim@vax.mpiz-koeln.mpg.dbp.de
Organization: Regional Computing Center, University of Cologne, F. R. Germany

In <wVoJsB2w165w@comtch.spk.wa.us> mhughes@comtch.spk.wa.us (Mark Hughes) writes:

>  What's happening with support of GFA on other platforms?  That's the 
>main reason I still use GFA for some projects - it's easier to port to 
>PCs when using a graphics interface than rewriting a C program...

The best way to get definite answers to this  question  certainly
is asking GFA (whose address I don't have handy) and

    H. Richter Distributor
    Hagener Strasse 65
    W-5820 Gevelsberg
    Germany

    Phone: +49-2332-27-06
    Fax:   +49-2332-27-03

GFA  has  not  discontinued  GFA  basic  in  general,  they  just
discontinued it on the ST. At the CeBIT this year I talked to the
GFA people at their stand, and I was  left  with  the  impression
that   they  are  focussing  their  efforts  on  the  PC  market.
Therefore, I'd be quite confident  that  they  will  continue  to
support GFA basic on PCs. But I never checked out GFA for the PC,
so I don't really know.
The compatibiltiy between the PC and the Atari  versions  may  be
another  question  though,  now  that  they  are  in the hands of
different  companies. It would certainly make sense if they could
agree on some sort of standard core of GFA  basic  that  will  be
supported  on  all  platforms,  but  I never heard of such plans.
Maybe it's too early to think about such things, and then, it may
become  increasingly  difficult  to  support a load of convenient
functions under OS's that  are  developed  separately  from  each
other.

Greetinx, Jan

 +- Jan Kim -- X.400:    S=kim;OU=vax;O=mpiz-koeln;P=mpg;A=dbp;C=de -+
 |             Internet: kim@vax.mpiz-koeln.mpg.dbp.de               |
 |                                                                   |
 *----=<  hierarchical systems are for files, not for humans  >=-----*
From: kendall@great-gray.owlnet.rice.edu (Kendall Helmstetter Gelner)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Mint versus Powerdos - UNIXMODE
Date: 16 Oct 92 02:26:35 GMT
	<1992Oct15.173659.22357@news2.cis.umn.edu>
Organization: Rice University, Houston, Texas

Some of us *like* to be able to have filenames longer than the limiting 8.3
size...  And UNIXMODE had nothing to do with the difficulty in getting
GnuEmacs 18.58 to work - it was the directory names with '-' in them
(e-lisp, e-bin, etc...) that caused all of the bother (although you still
have to have UNIXMODE set to install after that).

Actually, I'd go so far as to wish UNIXMODE was built into the operating
system - a fair tradeoff between compatibility to/from MS-DOS systems. 

It's the only thing I really like from the Mac that I wish was on the ST...
--
---> Kendall Gelner (kendall@rice.edu)
"In a way, staring into a computer screen is like staring into an eclipse.
It's brilliant and you don't realize the damage until its too late."
- LA Times Thursday, 2/20/92 Business section "Innovation" column.          
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,news.answers
From: f90-jos@nada.kth.se (Johan Smros)
Subject: Re: Falcon in Sweden
Originator: f90-jos@byse.nada.kth.se
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 21:10:22 GMT

In article <mikhil.718815507@ida> you write:
>Has anyone heard which company will be the new generalagent
>for Atari here in Sweden ? It seems to take years before they
>have decided. I could buy my Falcon from another country though
>but it is always nice to see the thing with your own eyes before 
>you buy it, to be sure that it holds up to its promises.
>___________________________________________________
>
> Mikael Hillborg, Computer Sciencestudent at
>  __        __  _
> |  \      /   / \
> |   | __  |   \_
> |   |/  \ |     \
> |__/ \__/ \__ \_/ Department of Computer Systems,
>                   University of Uppsala, Sweden
>
> email: mikhil@student.docs.uu.se
>___________________________________________________
>

Unfortunately there will probably be no "generalagent" in Sweden before
christmas :-(

Johan

Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st