HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: sho limits
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:53:16 GMT
Reply-To: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.  Engineering

In article <1992Oct12.210616.6687@cabot.balltown.cma.COM>, 
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty) writes:
> the engineers of the SHO must have been more radical than i thought,
> if they actually designed this into the car.  i can understand
> wharfie's suprise; i'm somewhat used to it from my alfa sedan.

It isn't me who's complaining about TTO, I like it.  I'm just
surprised considering the strong but not overbearing TTO in the
SHO upset anyone.  My question was why would anyone completely
lift the throttle in a hard corner?  That is likely to invoke 
lots of TTO in some cars or even more understeer in others.

With the SHO you have to use the first law of Porsche:

1. Thou shalt never chicken out in a corner or thou wilt find 
	thine rear going through the fence. :-)

Anyway, we all know the SHO doesn't handle like a FWD car strictly
speaking now.


Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com
SHO  GOZE
From: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Dan Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: oil change question
Date: 14 Oct 92 00:45:02 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

@ (Nico Tranquilli) writes:
>The time between oil changes vary from car to car. 
>Why some cars need it after 7500 Km, others after 15.000 and so
>on ? 
>
>--nico.

RTFM! All manufacturers require that oil be changed _more_ often than 
7500 miles _or_ kilometers, probably half of that in severe service. 
severe service also being defined in your friendly service manual.

-- Dan

Remember: " Buffalo never Oink " Seen on a South Dakota travel brocure.
Advertisment: Try the Railway Post Office , a railfan BBS ! (612) 377-2197.
UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!rambler
INET: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: Re: sho limits
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:06:16 GMT

In article <3921@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>In article <14876@auspex-gw.auspex.com> tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett) writes:
>>I have not encountered SEVERE oversteer in the SHO yet, and I have tried.

>	Do this:

>	Take a curve fast enough so that you're understeering moderately.
>Take your foot _off_ the gas...

well, the thing is ... normally , engineers doing FWD cars put
considerable effort into suspensions that respond to lifting in
corners by simply tucking in nicely and settling down.  this is a
reasonable thing to do in an FWD car which is being targeted at a
non-performance oriented crowd, a crowd who just might respond to
being uncomfortable with their speed in a corner by lifting.

however, most any driver with decent performance training and reasonable
amounts of practice will never, never, never lift violently and then
stay off the throttle.  mild lifts may be used to provoke slight
rotation of the car, and violent lifts followed by immediate returns
to the throttle may be used to provoke major rotations, either
deliberately or as a reaction to an impending potential disaster.
this driving style is generally the result of experience in twitchy
rear drivers like the early porsche 911 (``don't lift.  DON'T LIFT!!!!'');
drivers with a background in the average FWD car don't really get
to sample this particular experience, but it is a basic part of
handling dynamics.

the engineers of the SHO must have been more radical than i thought,
if they actually designed this into the car.  i can understand
wharfie's suprise; i'm somewhat used to it from my alfa sedan.

richard
-- 
richard welty                            518-393-7228
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
  ``if you can read this, mario, you're too close''
    -- bumper sticker seen on a CART safety truck
From: dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.
Date: 8 Oct 92 12:26:54 GMT
Reply-To: dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems

In <BvrroG.8vD@news.cso.uiuc.edu> Khan writes:

>>>You seem to be equating "sinking in" with "bad handling in snow." This
>>>is incorrect. As a general rule of thumb, the more weight you have over
>>>your drive wheels, the better your traction will be. Compare the
>>>traction of a semi to that of a Geo Metro. Why do you think people with
>>>RWD cars put 100 lbs. of kitty litter in their trunks in the winter? So
>>>they can sink in and get stuck in the snow? ;-)
>>
>>	Think of a snowmobile scudding quickly over a ten-foot deep snowbank.
>>	Then think of an M60 tank trying to plow through the same snowbank.
>>	Extreme examples, same principal, if you catch my drift.

>Unfortunately, your drift reeks mightly of both apples and oranges.

>If you had a 10 foot deep snowdrift, both your 77 Corolla AND the RWD
>car with kitty litter in the trunk would sink.

	Given that the 77 Toyota IS RWD, and given that both the Corolla
	and the larger 60s vintage US car have kitty litter in the
	trunk, I'd say that the extra half-ton of vehicle weight gives
	the heavier car a better chance of sinking deeper.  And let's call
	the "snowbank" snowpack rather than snowdrift.  Or let's call it
	a snowdrift that has alternately thawed and frozen, forming a
	crust over softer snow.  First car to break the crust bogs down.
	Guess which car will break through first?

		Dave


Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: geiste@hsi.com (Doug Geiste)
Subject: radar  - what type are they?
Organization: 3M Health Information Systems, Wallingford CT
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:29:46 GMT

In Connecticut, many of the troopers and many of the local cops are using a 
new trunk mounted radar. 

Does anyone know what band they are and how they operate?  

Thanks!

-- 
 Doug Geiste                           ||   "We are all faced with a series
 3M Health Information Systems         ||    of great opportunities brilliantly
 ...!uunet!his!geiste                  ||    disguised as impossible situations"
 geiste@hsi.com                        ||
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: amiller@almaden.ibm.com (Alex Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: corvair for sale
Date: 9 Oct 1992 16:01:41 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Chevy '65 Corvair Monza 4dr 140hp powerglide
55k
good body (minor rust) and nice interior
doesn't start (might need coil or distributor)
$500

the car is located in Aptos, California
e-mail directly for more information

Alex Miller
internet: amiller@almaden.ibm.com
home phone: 408 662-0630
From: scvax@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Saab stories ...
Date: 15 Oct 92 00:47:11 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services


To the Saab loving and Saab hating camps:  You're both right!

In my high school and early undergrad days I used to work in a foreign 
car repair place that "specialized" in Saabs.  The guy who owned the
place (certified Saab fanatic) had an arrangement with the nearest Saab
dealer (nearly 200 miles away) where we did warranty work and my boss
was sort of a salesbeing for them.

Anyway, its been nearly 10 years and I can still rattle off the names 
of about a dozen or so customers that we got to know very well.  It 
seemed to us that there were two sorts of Saabs, the kind you only did
maintenance on and the kind that rarely needed maintenance because they
never left the shop.  I've been tempted to buy one a couple of times,
but the look on the faces of the people who have just replaced a $175
heater control valve for the second time is etched in my brain.

The people I knew who loved Saabs were either wealthy enough to not 
mind the repair costs or had the luck of owning a basically healthy
car.

Now, having said that, I can surely understand the attraction that people
have for these machines.  Find a mid-70's Sabb 99 some time and take a
good look at the ergonomics.  Just wonderful!  High comfortable seats,
a nicely curved dash with large white on black VDO guages, everything
where it should be (OK, so the key is between the seats).  A comparison
to a similar vintage Toyota will show you how far ahead the folks in 
Trollhaten were. While not as revolutionary today,  Saab still has a 
certain knack for combining a little eccentricity with near perfect
functionality (IMveryHO).

Dave Huhta      huhta@kuxry3.chem.ukans.edu
Xray Crystallography Lab
University of Kansas 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jeffc@eng.hou.compaq.com (Jeff Carlson)
Subject: Ford recall of paint???
Organization: Compaq Computer Corporation
Distribution: rec
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 23:04:44 GMT

A friend of mine mentioned that Ford had issued a recall of the paint
on all vehicles between '85 - '91.  I was curious if anyone has heard
of this.  I haven't contacted a dealer to inquire about this yet, but
thought someone out there might be in the know.
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
| jeffc@gadget.eng.hou.compaq.com |  "Duct tape is like The Force. It has |
| Compaq Computer Corporation     |  a light side and a dark side, and it |
| Houston, TX  (713) 374-9141     |  holds the universe together."        |
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Dan Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: oil change question
Date: 16 Oct 92 03:27:00 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

cf947@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chun-Hung Wan) writes:
>
>I have a Nissan Sentra SER and Nissan suggests that the oil be changed
>every 7500miles or every 6 months.  I'd like to try out Mobil 1 and is it
>therefore safe to assume that my oil changes can now come every 15,000miles
>or once a year?
>-- 
>A motion picture major at the Brooks Institute of Photography, CA
>Santa Barbara and a foreign student from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.
>
>"The mind is the forerunner of all states."

 I stand by my previous post - READ THE @#$% MANUAL. I would bet an oil change
at your local garage that your manual say change the oil more often under
severe conditions; something on the order or 3750 miles or 3 months.

-- Dan Meyer

Remember: " Buffalo never Oink " Seen on a South Dakota travel brocure.
Advertisment: Try the Railway Post Office , a railfan BBS ! (612) 377-2197.
UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!rambler
INET: rambler@pnet51.orb.mn.org
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.audio.car
From: pbg@cs.brown.edu (Peter Galvin)
Subject: Re: Detachable face decks
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Brown University
	<nataraja.719154011@mica> <1bktkbINNj1j@agate.berkeley.edu>
	<1bku3cINNjci@agate.berkeley.edu>
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 14:58:20 GMT

I asked a similar question recently, and the summary (thanks all) is
that thieves will steal anything.  It's less convenient to get a deck
without a faceplate, but a lot of thieves don't know whether they can
get a new faceplate or not, so go ahead and steal it anyway.  I decide
to get one (Pioneer 5200) since I liked the sound and features.  Also,
it sits fairly deep in my dashboard (Honda Civic) when the faceplate
is off, so I'm going to try to get the stock Honda stereo-bay plate
(the plastic they put there if you don't buy a stereo), put foam on
the back of it, and see if I can make it look generic when I remove
the faceplate and put the camoflage plate over it.  Wish me luck!

							--Peter
--
					      --Peter

------------------------------------------    --------------------------------
Peter Baer Galvin       		      (401) 863-7623
Systems Manager, Brown Univ. Comp. Sci.       pbg@cs.brown.edu
Box 1910 (115 Waterman Street)                uunet!brunix!pbg
Providence, RI 02912  (02906)		      pbg@browncs.bitnet
From: damong@manyjars.WPI.EDU (Damon Francis Gentile)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Extoic sightings
Date: 16 Oct 92 09:30:16 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: manyjars.wpi.edu

In article <1992Oct15.232659.25416@sol.UVic.CA> atovorni@engr.UVic.CA writes:
>In article 1bk6ikINN1s6@bigboote.WPI.EDU, beuf@wpi.WPI.EDU (Richard J Fuller) writes:

>>        6 . ) Caddilac Alante'

>6) Italo-American Bullshit

how do you get italian out of a cadialac ?
From: hugo@bluehau.bubble.org (Hugo Bueno)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Do you have a Sable?  What's your MPG?
Date: 12 Oct 92 21:09:46 GMT
Organization: The Blue House

sly9y@cc.usu.edu says:
>In article <67276@cup.portal.com>, Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser) writes:
>>>I am not sure if my 87 Sable Wagon consumes more fuel than average.  It's
>>>getting only 17 MPG, freeway and local combined(half and half).  I inflate the
>>>tires to 34 psi and keep the car in good condition.  Can someone own a similar
>>>car tell me your MPG?  Or maybe the ways to increase it?  Thanks a lot.
>>>
>>>- james
>> 
>> Do you have the 3.8 or the 3.0 V-6? I have a '90 Taurus Wagon with
>> the 3.0 V-6 and about 43,000 miles on the clock and I recently drove
>> from LA to Sacamento and back... lots of long boring Interstate
>> highway, a trip of appx 500 miles, and almost made it 1 way on one tank
>> of gas, putting the mileage for that trip in the high 20s I guess
>> since the tank holds about 17 gallons. Around town in stop'n'go
>> traffic thru the suburbs I get about what you're getting, perhaps
>> a couple mpg more. I'm sure it has to do with the time you can
>> spend in the automatic overdrive 4th gear versus not as to what kind
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> of overall mileage you're gonna see. By the way, I run it on 
>> "regular unleaded" 87 octane stuff (name brands) which it seems
>> to like just fine.
>> 
>> Harv
>
>We have a 91 sable with the 3.0, and on the highway we get 31-32 mpg, but 
>around town it suffers.  something like low twenties.  About the above, 
>_do not_ drive around town in overdrive this is just for steady driving above
>45 mph.  I have heard too many stories about gm's th700r4, which is essentially
>the same thing, only it is an incredible piece of *#$%!  When you drive around
>town in od, it is constantly shifting in and out of od (which wears it out 
>very quickly) and you also have to worry about lugging the engine.

Huh? Overdrive doesn't engage AT ALL until you go over 45 mph.
As long as you're driving local streets under 45 mph, the effect
is the same as having the trans in "regular drive" mode.
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Hugo Bueno  |Delphi  : MRGOOD  CIS: 71211,3662
Fanwood, NJ |Internet: hugo@bluehau.bubble.org
CoCo 3 UUCP |UUCP    : ...!s4mjs!bluehau!hugo
From: ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Ford Ranger 4x4 VS Jeep (Pros and Cons?)
Date: 16 Oct 1992 18:12:01 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


   I'm looking for a 4x4 to use on the various fishing trips in which I drive
down logging roads and such. I was wondering what the good points are of a
Ford Ranger 4x4 VS a Jeep for this. I currently drive a Ranger 2 wheel drive
with a 4 cyl and stick and I love the gas milage. What kind of gas milage does
a Ranger 4x4 with the 4 cyl and 6 cyl engines get (specify if it is a newer
model with EFI or not)? What kind of gas milage does the various Jeep engine/
transmission models get? I'm looking for something used in the <$4000 class,
so I'd like to know what the new and old models get. What about the off-road
ability of the Ranger Vs the Jeep? Is the 4 cyl EFI Ford Ranger engines powerful
enough for off-road driving? My 83 with a carb and 4 speed stick leaves a bit
to be desired as far as power goes. What about the various Jeep engines? I'm
trying to find a happy medium between miles per gallon and off-road power. Is
a Ranger 4x4 as able to tackle rough riding areas as a Jeep? Thanks in advance
for any advice.
-- 
George Bush? He doesn't have a clue anymore. Bill Clinton? A slick smile and
a pandering style. Neither one is being realistic about what it is going to
take. The answer..........? ROSS FOR BOSS! VOTE FOR ROSS PEROT FOR PRESIDENT!
The Cryptozoology Information Network. Want on our Email mailing list? Amiga!
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw)
Subject: Re: 1992 New Car Lemon Index - See where your car/manuf stands
Organization: Motorola Western MCU Design Center, Chandler Arizona
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 00:43:18 GMT

Interesting numbers, but why not give us the number of cars sold and
number of complaints submitted for each of the manufacturers who sold over
300 cars?  

What is IMPLIED and I stress the word "implied" is that a higher "lemon
index" indicates a poorer quality design.  Unfortunately all that is
presented is the number of complaints not settled with the manufacturer.
This only represents the lack of agreement - not the total number of
defective cars.   

Someone at the bottom of the list could have a total recall to fix some
defect, and not have a single complaint because the manufacturer didn't
challenge the customer.   We could also have a manufacturer near the top
of the list that several customers who were just hard-nosed enough to
want to get even with the manufacturer, just because of a bad dealer.
I had such a case about 4 years ago with Pontiac.  Good car - idiot dealer.

How about all the raw data for each manufacturer?
1) Total number sold.
2) Total number of recall defects.
3) Total number of resolved complaints.
4) Total number of unresolved (lemon-law) cases.

I suspect item (2) is not recorded and that item (3) is unattainable.
So where does this leave us with the lemon index related to quality?

Mark
===========================================================================
In God we trust, all others bring data.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jjn@cbjjn.cb.att.com (Jeff Nappi)
Subject:  RX7 Email Blow up.
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:12:04 GMT

No excuses folks I blew it. I apologize for the bounced email messages,
I have gotten a new mailer from the person who maintains the vette list
and I think this one is much better. I will be implementing this code
and will test with a small group of people on the RX7 list to make sure
everything is ok before I add everyone else. I think you will like this
mailer, it allows direct replies to the sender. Agains sorry for the
bouncing mail.

-- 
Jeff Nappi
Columbus Bell Labs
jjn@cbjjn.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Subject: Re: Im going to be sick...
Originator: brad@buck
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 18:34:46 GMT


In article <DP00RB4w164w@cellar.org>, blu@cellar.org (Dan Reed) writes:
|> 
|> Drivers of foreign-made cars in the Flint. Mich., beware.  Begeining Monday 
|> only US made cars will be allowed in the City Hall Basement garage.  Flint 
|> Mayor Woodrow Stanley said he issued the order to send a message to buy 
|> American.  And he says he might designate other city lots for US only cars.  

The mayor is obviously a complete idiot. He will undoubtedly be forced to
rescind this moronic exercise very quickly. 

How in blazes does he plan to determine what is American enough and what
isn't? Do you let in an Eagle Talon or a Plymouth Laser but turn away a 
Mitsubishi Eclipse? What do you say about an Eagle Premier, which probably 
comes from at least 5 different countries, depending on how you choose
to measure it?

What about a DeTomaso Pantera (Italian with Ford V8), or a Ford Taurus
SHO (American with Yamaha V6)? What is a Chrysler TC by Maserati? Where 
do you draw the line?

Will everyone who pulls into a city lot have to produce notarized 
documents proving a certain percentage of domestic content? If you're 
borderline, will you become unacceptable if you take out the Delco radio 
and install a Sony?

This gives new meaning to xenophobia, jingoism, and fascism.


Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: sly9y@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Insurance Advice for Muscle Cars
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:56:32 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <590002@hpkslx.mayfield.HP.COM>, russ@hpkslx.mayfield.HP.COM (Russ Lown) writes:
> Hello,
> 
> I have a friend who is ready to by a 1970 Roadrunner with a market
> value of $30,000 US.  He has a few questions about insurance:
> 
> 
>   o Does anyone have any insurance companies they can recommend
>     when buying such a car?
I recommend staying away from state farm.  Recently my brother hit a lady who
ran a red light in our 65 stang.  State farm gave us $2200 for the totaled 
car.  It happened to be an all original, one owner (my dad) Mustang.  They
didn't take any of that into consideration, among the myriad of other things
mustang buyers would look at in this car.   Make sure the insurance company
understands that it is a 1970 ROADRUNNER and not just a 1970 plymouth(sp?)
> 
> 
>   o How does one go about dealing with the blue book/market value
>     mismatch?  Is an independent appraisal in order?  
> 
Definately get an appraisal.

Pete
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 11:10:12 EDT
From: <WJT101@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Canadian names for U.S. Cars

Hello,
On my last trip to Canada a few months ago, I was amazed to see just how
many different names there were for "American" models sold in Canada...

--The Dodge Dynasty and Daytona were sold as the Chrysler Dynasty and Chrysler
     Daytona
 --The Geo Tracker was sold as the Chevrolet Tracker and GMC Tracker
 --The Chevrolet Corsica was sold as Chevrolet Corsica and Pontiac Tempest
--The Geo Metro was sold as the Chevrolet Sprint, Pontiac Firefly and I
   believe Geo Metro as well
 --Eagle had a version of the Mitsubishi Galant called Eagle 2000GTX
 --The Jeep Wrangler is called the Jeep YJ
    and I'm sure there are others!!

 Plus, they have different names for import cars and a few we don't even get
   here in the U.S.

Anyway, why do they have different names for these "American" cars??
  Since the U.S. and Canada are so similar (except for French speaking Quebec),
  wouldn't it be easier and cheaper in marketing/advertising to use the same
  names for similar cars in the U.S. and Canada?
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw)
Subject: Re: downforce and cornering g's (was which car handles the best?
Organization: Motorola Western MCU Design Center, Chandler Arizona
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 00:10:21 GMT

In article <Bw4Luw.Bxn@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Mshar) writes:
|> > mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw) writes:
|> 
|> >|> I wrote
|> >|> 
|> >|>                   Acceleration = Gravity
|> >|> 
|> >|> Gravity at sea level is about 9.8meters per second^2, or about 32.2 feet
|> >|> per second^2. So, in an idealized model of a turning car, the maximum
|> >|> lateral acceleration cannot be more than the acceleration of gravity. 
|> >|> But, as I stated in a long article previously, a turning car does not
|> >|> follow all of the ideal rules. You might want to read it sometimes, but
|> >|> then again, you might want to pick up a physics book first.     
|> >
|> >Ditto, you should.   The downward force can exceed the cars weight due to
|> >aerodynamic loading, and the coefficient of friction can exceed 1.0 due to
|> >adhesion and interaction between the irregularities between the tire and road
|> 
|> No shit, Shermlock. Perhaps you should read the above paragraph one more time. 
|> Noticed I said `idealized model`, and especially notice the part about the
|> long article I previously wrote. 

Boy! Are we testy!  If your previous article covered the subject, then just send it
to the person asking the question and don't put a short version on the net that
could be implied to say that cars cann't exceed 1g.  Especially if you are in a
hurry!   Aside from the single statement  about "a turning car does not follow all
of the ideal rules." you do not as strongly qualify your general case as you did
in your reply to me.

Besides, anyone who starts out with "Oh no.  Another person blind to physics."
deserves a little tap on the shoulder once in a while.

Mark