From: ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy)
Subject: Guns and  Boston Crack Dealers (Was: Dressed for Rape)
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<1993Jan1.003233.6757@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
	<9301021305.12@rmkhome.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:46:03 GMT

<In article <9301021305.12@rmkhome.UUCP> rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
<   In article <1993Jan1.003233.6757@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman) writes:
<   >[While Kelly doesn't know about it, there is a lot of research on gun
<   > control.  See Kleck's Point Blank for far more info than you'll ever
<   > need.]
<   >
<   >In article <9212311249.09@rmkhome.UUCP> rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
<   >>What most people in this thread want is the right for anyone to just
<   >>walk into Fred's Gun Store, plunk down the money, and walk out with
<   >>the gun and ammo of choice.
<   >
<   >Since there don't seem to be any benefits to policies other than that,
<   >what's so unreasonable about it?

<   I believe there is some benefit in determining if a person is
,   psychologically able to take on the responsibility of owning
<   a handgun.

	Then why isn't Kelly also demanding licensing for cars;
	automobiles are used to cause more deaths than firearms
	every year.

<   >>I maintain that I wouldn't want to live in a state like that, as it
<   >>would rapidly turn into a scenario like Beirut.
<   >
<   >Yet, the states where one can just walk in and buy a gun don't have
<   >much crime - they're less like Beirut* than Boston is.  If guns are
<   >the problem, how come the problems are where the guns aren't?

<   Most of the gunshots that are fired in Boston are crack dealers
<   shooting at other crack dealers.

	Said crack dealers do not obtain their firearms through
	legal channels, now do they?
	
<   >We happen to know that criminals don't acquire guns at gun stores.
<   >(It's easy enough to do the relevant research.)  Therefore, controls
<   >on stores are, at best, like looking for your keys under a street
<   >light when you know that you lost them somewhere else.  Sure the light
<   >is good there, but you're wasting your time.
<   >
<   >We can't win a gun war any more than we can win a drug war.  How many
<   >people should we jail to satisfy Kelly's bigotry?  (BTW - He's also
<   >misstated the way MA's gun laws work for honest law-abiding people.)

<   Apparently, the appeal process has changed over the last decade.  It's
<   been a long time since anyone I know had to go through it.

<   You seem to imply that if EVERYONE had a gun, there would be no crime
<   and no shots fired.

	Hardly. On the other hand, those states with so-called "lax"
	gun laws *DO* have less violent crime than such garden spots
	as Washington, DC, New York, Chicago and so forth.

<   And, of course, untrained idiots who bought a gun at K-Mart would never
<   hurt themselves or anyone else by mistake.

	Can Kelly show where anyone asserted this?

<   And your belief that no one legally buys a gun and then does something
<   illegal with it is ridiculous.

	The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, Department of
	the Treasury, surveyed about 900 convicted felons.
	Over 90% of them stated they obtained their firearms from
	a source OTHER than a licensed dealer.

<  Read a newspaper.

	One of those publications that use such terms as
	"automatic revolver", "Semi-automatic assault rifle",
	"saturday night special"? One of *those* paragons
	of factual accuracy?
<

	If Kelly can point to a newspaper that doesn't sensationalize
	any story having to do with firearms, I'll try reading it.
	
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns