HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: richard@npri6.npri.com (Richard Head)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.os.vms,comp.unix.ultrix
Subject: Re: Digital News and Review's irresponsible attitude
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:07:16 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: NPRI, Alexandria VA

mdchaney@fractal.ucs.indiana.edu (M Darrin Chaney) writes:


>Anyway, the VUP is a unit of power.

Let's not confuse the issue with unnecessary detail.


>It's nice to have the unit of power in a unit that you are familiar with.
>However, if you are comparing a group of computers (or cars), the units
>are irrelevant.

Perhaps they are irrelevant to you.  Believe it or not, some people
(obviously not quite the established Computer Scientist you are)
like to make comparison to a REFERENCE STANDARD (SPECmarks), so they can
compare machines, regardless of vendor.  How can they do this with MicroVUPs?
(That's right, Einstein, tell me how many MicroVUPs an IBM RS6000 has!
That's exactly the information I'm looking for!)

>You can tell by looking at the numbers that computer X
>is 5 times as "fast" as computer Y.

You're just using those complex formulas because you know I left my Star Trek
decoder ring at home.


>All of DR's reviews are based on relative stats.  The machines capable of X
>are always shown with stats relative to a DS3000.

DR's "reviews" (and I use the word loosely), are essentially an advertisement.
I'm sure performance relative to a DS3000 is valuable to you, but most
people who a) use VMS which b) only runs on VAXes and Alpha, would probably
be more interested in how many SPECmarks a DS3000 has, not MicroVUPs.


>>#> For a long time, the uVAX II had the largest installed base of any VAX  
>>Really?  Care to quantify what you mean by a "long time"?  Last time I
>>checked, the MVII sold well from 87-89, but since then, I'm sure it has
>>been overtaken by MV3100, VAXstation 3100, etc.
>So?  Is it any worse a comparison point than the VAX-11/780?

"Worse"?  The point is, you academic flunky, that MicroVUPs are MACHINE
SPECIFIC.  SPECmarks are machine and platform independent.  If you think
MicroVUPs are so great, why not have MicroVAX3100VUPS?  How about
VAXstationVUPs?  


>You might notice that Digital doesn't use MVUPs.

No shit.  And the reasons they don't are exactly the reasons I have made
quite clear.
-- 
richard@npri6.npri.com  <Richard Head>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: eric@telebit.com (Eric Smith)
Subject: PDP-8 FTP Archive is now available
X-Disclaimer: Everything I write is false.
Organization: Telebit Corporation
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:43:55

The PDP-8 archive is now available for anonymous FTP access on
ftp.telebit.com, in the directory /pub/pdp8.

There's not much in it yet, so I urge everyone that has PDP-8 software to
contribute.

The README file is enclosed below.

Cheers,
Eric
------------------------------ cut here ------------------------------
PDP-8 ARCHIVE
-------------

This archive contains information and software relating to the PDP-8 series
of machines which were produced by Digital Equipment Corporation, as well as
other related machines, peripherals, etc.

The maintainer of the archive does not have a significant amount of PDP-8
information and software, so the contents of the archive are provided
principally through the generosity of others.  If you have any information
which may be useful to other PDP-8 users, please consider submitting it to
the archive.

For information on the current contents of the archive, please refer to the
file "INDEX".


WHAT IS A PDP-8?
----------------

DEC produced a family of 12-bit mini- and micro- computers which are
generically referred to as "PDP-8"s, although the actual "PDP-8" designation
refers to a single model.  The PDP-5, LINC-8, and PDP-12 are generally
considered to be part of the PDP-8 family, as are later machines such as the
VT-78 and DECmate.  These machines all use essentially the same simple yet
elegant instruction set, although the LINC-8 and PDP-12 additionally offer
the LINC instruction set.

Some people consider the PDP-8/e to be the first personal computer, as it
generally supported one user, cost under $10,000, and was easy to use
(relative to other machines of its day).

For more details, refer to the file "WHAT-IS-A-PDP8", by Charles Lasner.


MAINTAINER
----------

This archive is maintained by Eric Smith ("eric@telebit.com").  Although it
is intended that the archive will be offered on a permanent basis, there is
no guarantee.


SUBMISSIONS
-----------

Files may be submitted for inclusion in the archive by putting them in the
directory /pub/incoming.

Please send mail to eric@telebit.com to notify me that I should move the
submitted files to an apropriate place.


DISCLAIMER
----------

Neither the maintainer of the archive nor Telebit Corporation offer any
warranty for the contents of this archive.  Use at your own risk!


FOR FURTHER INFORMATION
-----------------------

There is a mailing list for the PDP-8 and related topics called PDP8-LOVERS.
Please send administrative email such as subscription and cancellation
requests to "pdp8-lovers-request@ai.mit.edu".

Submissions to the list should be emailed to "pdp8-lovers@ai.mit.edu".
From: ecldco@ultb.isc.rit.edu (E.C. Loyd)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Mounting High Sierra/ISO CDs via Infoserver
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:56:04 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Originator: ecldco@ultb

I've got an Infoserver 150 that is working fine serving Ultrix and VMS
CDs.  However, I'd like to serve a High Sierra formated CD as well.

How do I mount this on a VMS machine?


-- 
Eric C. Loyd                            ecldco@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
ISC/Data Center Operations              Phone: (716) 475-7320
Rochester Institute of Technology       FAX:   (716) 475-5306
Rochester, NY  14623  USA               All-In-One: LOYD EC (@a1.isc.rit.edu)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: neideck@nestvx.enet.dec.com (Burkhard Neidecker-Lutz)
Subject: Re: Questions about DECstation 5000/25 Hardware
Organization: CEC Karlsruhe
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 06:26:45 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.031316.12572@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>  I have a couple of simple questions about the Personal DECstation 5000/25.

The port is for the audio I/O that you found out about. It is documented
as part of the software that you need to make use of it. This software
is called 

		XMedia Tools (currently at Version 1.1)

and contains audio and video software for using (runtime kit) or developing
(developers kit) multimedia applications. For more complete information
about it, look in the biz.dec.xmedia newsgroup.

		Burkhard Neidecker-Lutz

Multimedia Engineering, CEC Karlsruhe	   EERP Portfolio Manager
Software Motion Pictures		   Multimedia Base Technology
Digital Equipment Corporation
neidecker@nestvx.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.sys.hp,comp.unix.questions,alt.sys.sun,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: jld@datascope.com (Jay L. Davis)
Subject: Re: net.views -- which vendor is the most open?
Organization: Datascope Corp.
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 14:40:50 GMT

In article <BuBx63.H64@vcd.hp.com> robertt@vcd.hp.com (Bob Taylor) writes:
>Trip Martin (night@acm.rpi.edu) wrote:
>: In <1992Sep9.191159.29861@cc.ic.ac.uk> vulture@carrion.cc.ic.ac.uk (Thomas Sippel - Dau) writes:
>: 
>: >In article <1992Sep06.033204.4890@utoday.com>, wagner@utoday.com (Mitch Wagner) writes:
>: > -- 
>: > --        Which computer and/or operating-vendor has the greatest
>: > --        commitment to open systems? Which has the least? Why?
>: > -- 
>: >Clearly, IBM. it is still the greatest computer vendor by a factor of five or 
>: >so, and it tells us it is totally commited to open systems.
>: 
>: Greatest?  I hardly think so.  Largest, certainly.  Incidentally, isn't
>: IBM the company one of whose executives was quoted as saying "You don't
>: want to get locked into open systems."?
>
>Actually, IBM has always struck me as being the least interested in
>open systems - traditionally, most of IBM's systems were "anti-open" -
>you had to buy the hardware, sw, support, etc. all from IBM.  The
>FTC and competition has forced them to be open, but for the most 
>part they seem to be open only when forced to be.  Many other companies
>have been using "open systems" as a major strategy for years, while
>IBM is relatively new at the game.  Whether Microsoft is any more
>open is open for debate, but IBM certainly isn't.
>
>: -- 
>: Trip Martin
>: night@acm.rpi.edu
>: --
>: Trip Martin
>: night@acm.rpi.edu
>
>Bob Taylor
>HP Vancouver
>

Actually, IBM seems to qualtify for both spots. Some parts of IBM are
committed to open systems and others are against it. That is the problem
with having a very large corporation.


---Jay Davis

Xref: sparky comp.sys.dec:4964 comp.os.vms:14963 comp.unix.ultrix:6871
From: jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz)
Subject: Re: net.views --- which vendor is the most open ?
Organization: Mount Holyoke College
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 02:13:29 GMT

In article <1992Sep16.000950.27645@decuac.dec.com> mjr@hussar.dco.dec.com (Marcus J. "Buddy can you spare a clue?" Ranum) writes:
>	What *IS* an "Open System"? Since I'm kind of a logical positivist
>sort of guy at heart, I'd like someone to propse a definition that is
>*testable* - or I consider it to be metaphysical. ;)

It seems that in this thread there are three types of articles... vendor
bashing articles, attempts at defining "Open Systems", and queries as to
what "Open Systems" really are.  I'll throw in with the second category
and define what the term means to me...  8-)

I think that in practical terms to the end user a system has to fulfill
the following requirements to be considered open:

Hardware -- Fully documented.  Schematics, signal traces, everything.

Software -- Source code available at non-prohibitive cost.  (i.e. not
            some outrageous multiple of the cost for the binary license.)

Simple, huh?  Unfortunately most vendors will scream: "Hey, we can't do
THAT!  If we do THAT, the competition will rip us to shreds!  The evil
South-East Asian criminal clone-makers will gut our market!  Evil
intellectual property-right thieves will steal our research investment!
What are you, crazy?"

Sigh.  Maybe they are even right... I don't know.  All I know is that
most systems I've had to deal recently didn't do everything I needed
them to do, and I couldn't enhance or adapt them to my needs because
they weren't open by my above definition.  Ergo...

Support the FSF and similar undertakings.  Let's start a "GNU computer"
project to add hardware to the effort.  I've long given up on the big 
vendors ever filling my needs... the more "Open" their glossies say they
are, the less open they seem to me.
--
Jurgen Botz                  |   Internet: JBotz@mtholyoke.edu
Academic Systems Consultant  |     Bitnet: JBotz@mhc.bitnet
Mount Holyoke College        |      Voice: (US) 413-538-2375 (daytime)
South Hadley, MA, USA        | Snail Mail: J. Botz, 01075-0629
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
From: warlock@med.umich.edu (Brad Robertson)
Subject: How to connect modem to 3100 for dial in
Originator: warlock@norm.itn.med.umich.edu
Organization: University of Michigan - Medical Center
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:07:29 GMT


(I'm posting this for a friend who doesn't have access to USENET.)

We would like to connect a modem to a DECstation 3100.  The manual says that
"auto-answer" is not available since only data lines are connected.   Actually
we are not  interested in dialing *out* but in dialing *in* (people  doing work
from home computers, etc).  So this may be a problem.  Is there any way around
this problem?
-- 


==============================================================================
 Brad Robertson                |   University of Michigan Medical Center, ITN
 brad.robertson@med.umich.edu  |   B1911 CFOB, Ann Arbor, MI 48109-0704
==============================================================================
Xref: sparky comp.sys.dec:4957 comp.sys.hp:10344 comp.unix.questions:10998 alt.sys.sun:3130 comp.sys.next.advocacy:2191 comp.os.os2.advocacy:5313 comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy:2173
From: olson@anchor.esd.sgi.com (Dave Olson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.sys.hp,comp.unix.questions,alt.sys.sun,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: net.views -- What is an "Open System"?
Date: 12 Sep 92 22:04:33 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA

In <BuF3uI.5ox@world.std.com> geoff@world.std.com (Geoff Collyer) writes:
| I am deeply and
| negatively impressed that Sun or SGI can call their systems "open", wth
| straight faces, when they don't offer anything comparable to the
| Digital PDP-11/70 Processor Handbook, which described the instruction
| set, addressing and memory management unit, memory system, floating
| point processor, I/O controllers, console, kernel memory map including
| device addresses, and device register bit layouts, in sufficient detail
| to implement an operating system when read in conjunction with the
| Peripherals Handbook, and without "open system" hype, and all in only
| 276 pages.

You'll never find anybody in engineering at SGI (at the firstline
management level or below) claiming we have open systems at the
hardware/OS level, at least, none that I know of.  Perhaps we have some
pseudo-engineers who would claim this (or 'real' engineers who might
claim it in a more limited sense, as applied to particular standards),
but not anybody who ever deals with the hardware.

For all of the systems that SGI builds that I am aware of, there does
not *exist* adequate documentation to write an OS.  More recent SGI
systems are getting closer, but I (personally, not speaking officially,
etc. etc.) don't believe any of them are there yet.   They are close
enough now that with a number of good logic analyzers, etc., you could
probably do it, but it wouldn't be easy.  Those who have done it to
date have all had reasonably good contacts with SGI to supply the
missing info as far as I have been able to determine.

I would imagine this is true of many/most of the the other system
vendors whose marketing folks claim that they have open systems,
although I have no recent first hand experience with others.

Let's face it, "Open Systems" as used these days is a marketing, not an
engineering concept, so you will likely never come up with a good,
solid definition.

Some other term should probably be invented and used for talking about
systems that are well documented at an architectural and hardware
implementation level.
--
Let no one tell me that silence gives consent,  |   Dave Olson
because whoever is silent dissents.             |   Silicon Graphics, Inc.
    Maria Isabel Barreno                        |   olson@sgi.com
Xref: sparky comp.sys.dec:4867 comp.os.vms:14709 comp.unix.ultrix:6728
From: richard@npri6.npri.com (Richard Head)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.os.vms,comp.unix.ultrix
Subject: Re: Digital News and Review's irresponsible attitude
Date: 7 Sep 92 15:23:31 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: NPRI, Alexandria VA


pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu (Greg Pavlov) writes:
#
#>In article <6094@npri6.npri.com>,richard@npri6.npri.com (Richard Head) writes:
#>> jms@mrsvax.mis.arizona.edu (Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem) writes:
#>> 
#>> The only possible good thing I can think of that may arise from this 
#>> transition is if Digital Review would only stop using the brain-dead
#>> term "MicroVUPs".  Use VUPs of SPECmarks or whatever.  The use of
#>> MicroVUPs was (I think) started and propagated by Digital Review, and
#>> as far as I can tell, they are the only ones that use it.
#>> -- 
#
#>   So what's the big deal about the units they use ? "Brain dead" ?

It isn't a big deal.  It's just Stupid.  When you buy a car, do you want
to hear how many miles per imperial gallon it gets?  When you buy a battery
for your car, do you want to know how many fortnights it will last?  Stupid.

#>  What is a "VUP" anyway ?  

Is this a serious question, or are you just demonstrating how Stupid you are?

#> For a long time, the uVAX II had the largest in-
#>  stalled base of any VAX.  

Really?  Care to quantify what you mean by a "long time"?  Last time I 
checked, the MVII sold well from 87-89, but since then, I'm sure it has
been overtaken by MV3100, VAXstation 3100, etc.  Maybe a long time when
compared to your attention span.

#>It made good sense to state relative performance
#>  in uVAX terms.  

Bullshit.

#>Continuing to use it as a unit is no more irrational than
#>  using the VAX 780 (in VUPS and SPECmarks).  

You moron.  SPECmarks are used as a general standard by all computer
manufacturers to give potential customers an idea how their machine may
compare to a machine from another vendor.  What does an HP/IBM customer care
how many "MicroVUPs" a VAX has?  They want to know how many SPECmarks it
has so they can compare it to machines from other vendors. 

-- 
richard@npri6.npri.com  <Richard Head>
I've fallen and I can't reach my beer!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Wanted: MicroVAX II parts
From: mdh@gaya.gp.co.nz (Martin D. Hunt)
Date: 12 Sep 92 22:52:12 +1200
Organization: Wellington, New Zealand

I am in need of some parts for my VAXstation II. Namely, the following:

Backplane to enable me to upgrade from an RC configuration. Any offers of
fully functional Q-bus backplane for a BA23 cabinet would be welcome.

Asynchronous port multiplexor, e.g, DZQ11 - so that I can run some 
terminals and printers.

If you are planning to scrap a MicroVAX or similar, or have the above parts 
available already, please get in touch. 

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin D. Hunt	The opinions expressed above are mine, and mine alone, and
Wellington	do not imply any endorsement by anyone I work for or know.
New Zealand	USEnet at home : martinh@gaya.gp.co.nz
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Organisation: European Space Operation Centre (E.S.O.C)
Date: Wednesday, 16 Sep 1992 01:20:09 CET
From: <KCHAN@ESOC.BITNET>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: Rumor- 486/50mhz less than $1000

In article <1992Sep11.084355.99@gems.vcu.edu>, agnew@gems.vcu.edu says:
>
>Dear Netters, I heard a rumos that ibm, dec, and major ps makers are
>going to make a 50mhz 486 for under $1000 to try and nuke the clone
                 !!!!!
I wonder how the major "ps" makers are going to nuke the clone
market with a machine whose clock speed is almost 10**9 times slower
than the original IBM PC at 4.77MHz, even it they pay people to use
it let alone charging $1000 for it!!! :-))

-----
Khee Chan
PROFS: esoc(kchan)   BITNET/EARN: kchan@esoc   SPAN: jplsp::kchan
INTERNET: kchan@jplsp.jpl.nasa.gov             COMPUSERVE: 73750,1402
I speak for no-one, and no-one speaks for me, sometimes not even myself!
Xref: sparky comp.sys.dec:4925 comp.sys.hp:10261 comp.unix.questions:10918 alt.sys.sun:3115 comp.sys.next.advocacy:2141 comp.os.os2.advocacy:5211 comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy:2156
From: frank@rover.uchicago.edu (Frank - Hardware Hacker - Borger)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.os.vms,comp.unix.ultrix
Subject: Re: Digital News and Review's irresponsible attitude
Date: 8 Sep 92 14:56:00 GMT
Reply-To: frank@rover.uchicago.edu
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Joint Center for Radiation Therapy
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep7.220402.9192@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, rawn@manduca..neurobio.arizona.edu (Rawn Shah) writes...
>From article <GRUNWALD.92Sep7123134@mumble.cs.colorado.edu>, by grunwald@mumble.cs.colorado.edu (Dirk Grunwald):
>...
>    Looks like Ehud has a follower in his footsteps except this one (RH) is a 
>little less imaginative in his insults.

	What we need is some really creative expletives such as:

	"You son of a <fill in your least favorite language> programmer... ."

	OOPS ^^^ caught me there, that should be

	"You spawn of a ... programmer."

   Frank R. Borger - Physicist    __       Internet:  Frank@rover.uchicago.edu
Michael Reese - Univ. of Chicago |___      Phone : 312-791-8075 fax : 567-7455
  Center for Radiation Therapy   | |_) _   
    2929 South Ellis Avenue        | \|_)  Dear son, don't come home and all is
    Chicago, Illinois 60616           |_)  forgiven. - Personal ad.
From: sysevm@nsrvan.vanc.wa.us
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: RE: VS3100/30 speed hack!!!
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:55:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: nsrvan.1992Sep14.095503.27
Organization: National Systems & Research, Vancouver WA


In article <1992Aug21.094137.23@nsrvan.vanc.wa.us>, I write...

#	I noticed upon opening up my VS3100/30 that the *only* changes between
#it and the 'faster' VS3100/40 are the clock (66.6666 MHz vs 44.4444 MHz) and
#a jumper. This is down to the chip part number.
# 
#	The cost of the 66 MHz osc is about $10 so when I find one I'll give it
#	a try.
# 
#	My questions are:
#	Who has done this?
#	What is the max clock freq that could be used?
#	Do you need additional cooling above 66 MHz?
#	What componet typicaly fails first as you raise the clock?


	So to answer my own questions I did it! First off the results are GOOD.
It works! And at a cost of almost nothing. Now on to the results.

	Clock freq	DR benchmark time	Comments

	44.4444 MHz	3.029 sec		baseline test
	64.0000 MHz	2.130 sec		Yes! did not have a 66.666 osc
	74.3040 MHz	3.112 sec		Boo, memory wait states?

	I used a 64 MHz osc because I had one available. The 74 MHz osc is
the real kicker. I suspect that memory access cannot keep up with the CPU
and has to insert additional wait states. Hey, How about one of you DEC
engineers mailing me a schematic for the VS3100? (Ethan VanMatre 17104 ne 35th
Cir, Vancouver, Wa 98682) 

	Kids don't do this at home, I'm a proffessionnal and of course this will
void your warranty and the like. Be aware there are more than one versions of
the board. 

	I was going to give a description of how to do this but if your willing
to try it you should allready know the precautions and techniques. Just replace
the CPU 44.4444MHz ttl osc with a 66.6666 MHz ttl osc and change the jumper in
the lower lefthand (as you face the front of the unit) from the inside position
to the outside position.

best of luck, Ethan
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: mcdonald@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (J. D. McDonald)
Subject: Open system are Illegal (was net.views -- which vendor is the most open?)
Summary: :-)
Organization: UIUC SCS
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:44:29 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.070009.22079@u.washington.edu> 
    The attributions are so messed up, who cares??? 

>>
>>      What *IS* an "Open System"??

Its a computer with the case off, of course. In most cases in the US 
such a system invites nasty visits both from the "FCC Part 15 police" 
and your neighbors, you know, the ones carrying shotguns because their
TV picture is all messed up.


Doug McDonald
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,alt.folklore.computers