HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 17:23:22 EST
From: Graydon <SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Understanding
 <1992Dec23.144201.6988@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> <92359.013136SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
 <1hdabiINN6r@agate.berkeley.edu>

In article <1hdabiINN6r@agate.berkeley.edu>, mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd)
says:
>Graydon <SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>>I'd venture to guess that it is easier to define yourself in opposition
>>to the principle source of attributable external pain than it is to
>>take responsibility for yourself in the way neccessary to have a self
>>definition founded in your inherentency.
>                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Blissful.  Presumably a mix of "inerrancy" and "heritage" - the deep
>truth (ha!) of tradition, what Bruce Cockburn called The Gospel Of
>Bondage (and no, he didn't mean BDSM, more's the pity).  What *would*
>fit there?  "Inherentness"?  "Inherency"?  "Inherent existential nature"?
>
>(A good point, btw, but to say so distracts from the joyous linguistic
>mudbath.)
>
>hugs
>Mike, only slightly drunk
>--
>Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- g+ k+ s m- e? |    "Bloody nose and burning eyes
>      Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and      |  Raised in laughter to the skies"
>          backrubber of devotion          |                 - Bruce Cockburn
>               --The end of confusion is the beginning of death--

It was supposed to be 'inherency', but sometimes my dislexia knows
things I don't, so I thought I'd leave it in.

Graydon
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Liberty (was something relevant about CO-2 long ago...)
Date: 22 Dec 92 01:24:22 GMT
Followup-To: soc.bi,soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Dec21.185313.19414@netcom.com>, solovay@netcom.com (Andrew
Solovay) wrote:

> But then, Miss Manners is a conservative (or, in motss parlance,
> "fascist").

A self-hating, misogynistic fascist sow, more like...

*X*
(who wonders if using 'sow' in reference to a woman is evidence
of misogyny, just as using 'cow' in reference to Anderson is.  It
would be interesting if it were, as 'pig' is probably the more
common phrase, but then 'pigs' are male - eh, oui?)
From: an1428@anon.penet.fi
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: HELP!!!!
Date: 22 Dec 92 15:07:00 GMT
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: soc.bi

I posted this earlier but I guess it didn't make it.
So, here it is again....I am sorry for any repeats.
I am a WM with no experinces, but can't seem to get
these (I don't mean to sound derogatory or anything)
thoughts out of my head....it has gotten to the point
that I think the only way I can resolve my feelings
is to "try it to see if I like it".  But I am at a loss
as to what to do...or say...or anything really.
.
I guess the best term would be lost!
I have ZERO experinces in anything like this, so your
help would be great!
.
The Masked Muffin.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
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Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: safarj@aix.rpi.edu (Jonah Emanuel Safar)
Subject: Re: Pet peeve of the day.
Keywords: Grumble Moan Complain
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 03:55:13 GMT

orc@vpnet.chi.il.us (david parsons) writes:

>In article <8c52p8=@rpi.edu> safarj@aix.rpi.edu (Jonah Emanuel Safar) writes:
>| Just a random peeve of the day... I hate when people think you are
>|ignoring them when you don't just hop up and answer a page, or a  
>|message, email, talk request, post or whatever immeandiately.  Did
>|it ever occur to these people that I might be busy, or away...

>   Well, the best way to deal with this is to say "well, yes, I
>*am* an antisocial bastard (or pick your own insult), and I live to
>ignore email/pages/messages/talk requests.  Everybody has their own
>niche, and I'm filling the vital need for the one in the gutter."

>   Works wonders for me!
>                 ___
Why yes, I am an antisocial, fascist (there, one upped you) bastard who
furfills a vital need to...
-Points, still a drumpy Dragon_
-- 
________________________________________________________________________________
 If the President won't do it to his wife, he'll do it to his Country. -Unknown
________________________________________________________________________________
Jonah E. Safar             R.P.I., Troy, NY              EMail to:safarj@rpi.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Attack of the Separatists
Date: 21 Dec 92 16:23:26 GMT
	<MUFFY.92Dec19103529@remarque.berkeley.edu>
	<1h0f2sINNptn@agate.berkeley.edu>
Organization: Natural Language Incorporated
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu's message of 20 Dec 1992 00:34:36 GMT

In article <1h0f2sINNptn@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>OK ... should men, then, hold controlling interests in feminist
>organizations?

"Should"?  No.  "Can"?  Yes.

>Is the president of NOW male?

Irrelevant.

>_should_ the president of NOW
>be male? And heck, NOW is as mainstream as you get, feminism-wise.  

That's up to the membership, I would think (I'm not sure exactly how the
president is selected).  I would not say "should," again, but "can."

>->Well, I don't quite know what "pro-feminist" is.  Is that like "I'm not
>->a feminist, but..."?  
>Yes, it is.

Most of the people who say that are implicitly putting down feminism as
an undesirable thing to identify yourself with.

>->I get the impression that you're saying that only
>->women are feminists, and men can only be "pro-feminist."  I don't think
>->that that is true at all.
>Fair enough.  You have a right to your own opinion, of course.

As do all the other feminists I know who think this (the vast majority,
both male and female).

>I'm also not really sure I _understand_ all I need to
>understand.  I think I may know, for example, how much shit women have to go
>through, but I am not yet sure I've internalized it.

And you won't, as long as you keep rejecting their experience.

Semi-bi relevance:  Speaking of labels, which I'm not that fond of, they
do have an effect (which is probably why I am wary of them).  When I
started to say that I was a "feminist," I started to understand a lot
more about the way our society treats women.  Similarly, since I started
to say that I was "bisexual," I have felt a lot more settled in to my
sexuality.  Maybe that's just becuase words/names/labels are very
powerful to me, but it's an interesting experience...*smile*.

Muffy
--

Muffy Barkocy                      | ~Can you tell me how much bleeding/it
muffy@mica.berkeley.edu            |  takes to fill a word with meaning and/
"amorous inclinations"? Aha! I'm   |  how much how much death it takes/to give
not "not straight," I'm *inclined*.|  a slogan breath?~ - Bruce Cockburn
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: De-muffinning
Date: 21 Dec 92 02:21:47 GMT
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin

In <BzGsHu.LCx@ibmpcug.co.uk> shelly@rachel.ibmpcug.co.uk
(Shelly DelVeccio) writes:
>Oh, and I just have one question: Ciaran is the moderator here, right?
>(Teasing, just teasing!)

No, of course not. I am the local PC thought police representative and
also play a mean game of pool. :-)

Welcome.


Ciaran.
-- 
---- Ciaran McHale (cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie)
\bi/ Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.
 \/  Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-6772204
From: arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Angus H Rodgers)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Imitating Turing (was: Liberty (was: (never mind)))
Date: 25 Dec 92 00:49:23 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London

In <6889@dciem.dciem.dnd.ca> kn@dciem.dciem.dnd.ca (Keith Niall) writes:

>I had heard (from a straight academic, no less) that Montague died
>as the result of a hard sex scene with a trick.
                                          ^^^^^
I read that as "brick". The image it conjured up ...
--
Gus Rodgers,  Dept. of Computer Science, |  [Profound thought for 1993]
Queen Mary & Westfield College, Mile End |     "Philishave is about
Road, London, England.   +44 71 975 5241 |      personal choice" 
E-mail (JANET):   arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk |             -- TV advert
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 13:53:34 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.160820.16498@cbnews.cb.att.com> eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (Piglet) writes:
>In article <BzH541.9ny@cck.coventry.ac.uk> idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>Oh.  Well, I never used to have good hair days.  At least, not more
>than once or twice a year.  My hair is either too short or too long,
>a non-descript medium-brown, straight (but not completely), limp,
>thin and fly-away.  Now that I've discovered Aussie Moist *shameless
>plug*, I actually have good hair days more like once or twice a week.

What is Aussie Moist (apart from Joe, that is :))?  I hope it isn't
something that means I'd have to "do things" to my hair.  I haven't
the time, nor the energy (I'm afraid I'm a bit of a non-groomer).
Can it also be used as a sextoy? that might get my interest up...

>>  Its only worthwhile function is to
>>reveal a small interesting scar which people sometimes ask me about.
>
>What an interesting small scar.  How did you get that?

I got hit by a half-brick on an anti-Fascist rally in Brixton.  Alas,
I'm not sure whether it was one of "their" half-bricks or one of
"ours".

>>...it's like when I tell people I come from York.  "Oh, how nice," they
>>say, "I'd really like to live there."  That's because they never have.
>>They can just wander over, admire, and don't have to live with the
>>reality of something that survives only by going back to 70AD, having
>>walls you can walk around, and being chokka with o-so-cute Ye Olde
>>Nintendoe shops.  I'm talking about York, not my hair, you understand...
>
>But I _liked_ York.  Hmph.  70AD has lots of appeal for me, antiquity
>snob that I am (also Latin snob, etc.).

Yes, yes, but you wouldn't want to live there.  It's just like a
brothel; totally devoted to pandering to the customers.  Actually,
I wrote a one-pager about York, for an APA that I belonged to.  I
may post it, if I can find it.  Sums my feelings up nicely.

>>I bet *you*'ve got nice hair, Piglet.  And if you have, I shall
>>be grumpy.
>
>Well, actually, no.  I've managed to fool it into thinking it's nice
>hair, but that only works for 1-2 days a week.  No grumpiness
>necessary.

OK <hug>, we can have bad hair days together.

>It is, however, wonderful to run your hands through.  An _ex_ boyfriend
>of mine used to say that it wasn't much to look at, but it sure felt
>great.  (You can see why he's an _ex_.)

Quite.  What a scumbag thing for him to have said.

>Piglet, fluffing her brown tresses....

		Kay (considering nuzzling Piglet's tresses)


-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: Liberty (was something relevant about CO-2 long ago...)
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 13:04:19 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.200351.26183@cbnews.cb.att.com> eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (eleanor.j.evans) writes:
>In article <1992Dec21.150903.17299@panix.com> mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
>>joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) considers the influence of the effect
>>of imposing language differences on people's
>>thoughts.  I have some questions about his examples, but that's not
>>the real issue for me in what he wrote:
>> >(1) Germany, 1935-194?. Ever read German w.r.t. foreigners (i.e.
>> >Jews)?  The language, indeed, quickly adapted to the needs of its
>> >users, to blame and denigrate 'foreigners'. Now, was this because people
>>
>>Denigrate?
>
>Wow, Mara, that was subtle.  I stared at the screen a good five minutes
>before my brain went *click*.  And it was audible, too.

No, it wasn't subtle at all.

>Does that mean I should strike "denigrate" from my vocabulary?  Or that
>it's an excellent example of (1) above.  Or both?

Neither.

				Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Xref: sparky soc.bi:17072 soc.motss:53292
From: pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Purity
Date: 3 Jan 93 17:56:45 GMT
Organization: Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, CA - aka Barnum & Bailey

Ellen <DICKSONE@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> wrote...
> ......

Yikes, another Ellen (makes three now - right?)

This should lead to some entertaining confusion.
(No gang, I haven't moved to Canada (yet).  The hot tub and I are still
 in the SF bay area.)

Ellen
ellen@dgi.com
aka pclary@<lotsofplaces>
From: arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Angus H Rodgers)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Selective Memory?
Date: 22 Dec 92 17:50:18 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London

In <1992Dec21.202753.15536@infodev.cam.ac.uk>
gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry) writes:

>In article <1992Dec21.200134.16944@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>
>arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Angus H Rodgers) writes:
>>[...]
>>Muffin? Muffin! Where *are* you? ... Guy, I know you're around here
>>somewhere ...

>Oy!  Cut that out!  I'm not a muffin, though I think I may be a "biscuit"
>in soc.motss parlance.  Kindly learn your netiquette!

Can't I even de-biscuit you a little, then?

   *dainty nibble*   [with little finger crooked in the air]

um...

   *munch munch munch*

Cookie! Me like!

   *Yaummph*

   [Wipes lips]
--
Gus Rodgers,  Dept. of Computer Science, |  [Profound thought for 1993]
Queen Mary & Westfield College, Mile End |     "Philishave is about
Road, London, England.   +44 71 975 5241 |      personal choice" 
E-mail (JANET):   arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk |             -- TV advert
Xref: sparky soc.bi:17054 soc.motss:53257
From: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Person in flux)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
Subject: Re: Liberty (was something relevant about CO-2 long ago...)
Date: 21 Dec 92 16:28:58 GMT
Reply-To: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology

I hope I trimmed the attributions correctly!  Please forgive me if I didn't.

>In article <1gtgv0INN98f@agate.berkeley.edu> mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. 
Lloyd) writes:

>>Absolutely.  "When I get called a poetess, it just brings out the
>>terroristress in me."  Somebody had better tell me who I'm quoting that
>>from (and probably inaccurately to boot).                                 

Audre Lorde, recently deceased African American lesbian New York Poet Laureate,
said that, and your rendition is pretty close, but not exactly.  Unfortunately,
I don't have a source for correction.

Katie
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: Liberty (was something relevant about CO-2 long ago...)
Organization: People's Front of Judea
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:53:13 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.164230.17150@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:
>In article <BzM8Fq.97F@austin.ibm.com> alan@auntbea.austin.ibm.com (Alan R. Weiss) writes:
>>
>>Do you believe that applying sound marketing principles to
>>getting your ideas actually ADOPTED by lots of people is a
>>nitwit idea?  If so, then you must enjoy talking *INSIDE*
>>your safe-space.  
>
>Do you have any idea what marketing is?  It is polite, it is
>rude, it is nice, it is mean, it is communication, it is
>miscommunication, it is above all getting people to pay attention.

If I may quote from today's Miss Manners column:

  Miss Manners has seen many a person won over to a good cause
  through polite appeals to reason or compassion, under
  conditions ranging from drawing-room discussion to picketing.

  But she has never yet heard of anyone who was under rude attack
  killing the instinct for self-defense and saying: "Wait a
  minute--I believe you have a point there. It's a good thing you
  yelled and threw paint at me because it made me realize that
  you are right and I was wrong. I appreciate your calling this
  to my attention."

But then, Miss Manners is a conservative (or, in motss parlance,
"fascist").
-- 
Andrew Solovay    
                "I know that, in America and under capitalism,
                 I am the freest woman in history."
                                --- Camille Paglia
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: guessing net.loves (was Re: Vikki's Problems With Kerry&Me)
From: woodhous@latcs2.lat.oz.au (Joe P Woodhouse)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 05:19:21 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd) writes:
>I remember asking one friend to guess who
>my net.connected lovers were, given only geographic hints.  Told "Well,
>there's at least one in SF," the answer was an emphatic "Roy" ...

   Talking with the latest person I fell for on the net recently, I 
invited them to guess who some other net.loves (of various sorts) were.
They needed remarkably little information to go on... simply saying
"alt.polyamory" was enough for them to immediately name one and then
another with a bit more thought. They haven't read soc.bi for a while
and thus couldn't name one very obvious one, but then with slight
prompting recalled one more who used to post a long while ago.

   It was uncanny, I tell you... [grin]

Joe.

(Yes, I'm still avoiding my posts to alt.poly too. 8-<)

  / Joe Woodhouse        / I'm just a sweet bisexual...   / Hello, there.
 / Latrobe University   /    (think - Rocky Horror)      / Threesomes are fun.
/ Melbourne, Australia / Music. Magic. Mathematics. Me. / I like cats! (miaow!)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (Piglet)
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
Organization: the house....on the corner
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:14:17 GMT
Keywords: grovel, grovel

In article <BzH5Gp.Ant@cck.coventry.ac.uk> idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>Awww, ok, you're forgiven and snuggled, you no-doubt excellently-haired
>Piglet, you!  *smooch*  Anyone who has to live at 1200 deserves every
>bit of sympathy she can get.

Ooo, smooch, snuggle, sympathy, sympathy, love, love....  I'll take every
bit of sympathy I can get.  Especially when it's as nice as that....

>Would I swap my yummy workstation and 19200 baud connexion for Mike's
>beautiful hair?  Errrr..  um.  Yes, actually I would :(

19200 baud!!!  Augh!!  I'm _so_ jealous....

>*snicker* I BET YOU'RE USING VI, TOO!  HAH!

Bite your tongue!!  Not a chance.  I'm a dedicated emacs-er.  And, let me
tell you, that's some dedication.  This is not what you could call an
emacs-friendly environment.  So much so that I don't have what you could
call a friendly emacs.  Keeps doing weird things with over 80 character
lines...



Piglet

>6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....

of indeterminate height (someone wanna come help measure me?--the doctor's
scale said 5'4", but I've always been 5'2", and I don't think she was
doing it right, because it definitely wasn't on my head...)
med. brown short? hair
hazel eyes (blue or green, depending)
DEFINITELY bisexual
and not very horny at the moment (someone wanna come help...never mind)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: STella@thelema.uucp (STella)
Subject: Re: Understanding
Organization: Idiosyncratic Anarchic Order
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 14:10:30 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.152115.510@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
>BTW, I do *not* have a responsibility to educate every single Jo Soap
>who comes along about queer issues. I may *choose* to educate a person,
>but it is by no means a responsibility.

YES, exactly, and thank you.  I do spend a fair amount of time
offering clues.  But claiming that I have a responsibility to place
those clues into the mind and heart of another, rather than making
them accessible as I can and leaving the responsibility for clue
acquisition with those who consider themselves clue-short seems
bassackwards -- if you think I have a clue you need, you get off YOUR
ass and get yourself a copy.  I do not take responsibility for your
growth -- being responsible for my own is just about all I'm willing
to work.

And, after years of attempting to share my reality with men, to
explain what "women" are on about, I've come to the decision that one
individual woman's story, in general, will not have as much of an
effect on the average man as getting evidence that it's not just
rabid-STella but MOST WOMEN who feel what I'm feeling.  Or that I'm
NOT marching with he feminist pary line on this one, when that's the
case.

Yes, I've had the experience of talking one-on-one with a man, and
seeing dawn break over Marblehead as he suddenly realizes what I'm on
about.  It's great when it happens, but it's not the way the odds run.
But maybe it's just me, dancing on the tension between a cold reading
of society and my awareness that every man and every woman is a star.

I can, and sometimes do, spend a fair piece of time telling another
about my reality.  When the issue's not MY personal reality, but an
issue that seems to spring from male/female differential
socialization, however, it makes more sense to me to offer the ideas
of several women, rather than my own solitary case.  After you've
familiarized yourself with the general case, the common experience of
women, it may be a good use of my time to highlight the ways I
disagree with the generic women's-issue party line, or to cite some of
the ways the general has worked out in my life, but before you can
walk, I'm not going to give you a gift certificate to Arthur Murray's
-- that way lies frustration for BOTH of us.

STella@xanadu.com	1016 E. El Camino Real, #302, Sunnyvale, CA 94087
STella%thelema.uucp@dec.com	Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian!
From: Wilma.Keppel@icarus.omahug.org (Wilma Keppel)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Do you read me?
Date: 25 Dec 92 16:36:46 CST
Reply-To: wilma.keppel@icarus.omahug.org
Organization: Icarus, Iowa City
Followup-To: soc.bi

I get SOC_BI gated through DRBBS into Fidonet.  There are some fascinating
threads, but before I go to the trouble of composing posts I'd like to make
sure that I can be "heard" back through the Gateway.  If you are not in
Nebraska or Iowa and you see this, please let me know I'm getting through. 
Thanks!
 
Wilma Keppel  1:283/657  (Fidonet)

Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss