From: slarsen@verdi.helios.nd.edu (susan larsen)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens,misc.kids,soc.men,soc.women,alt.dads-rights
Subject: Re: Response to Deluge About Hillary Clinton
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:12:59 GMT
Organization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame

In article <1992Jul22.182527.15619@javelin.sim.es.com> biesel@javelin.sim.es.com (Heiner Biesel) writes:
>slarsen@verdi.helios.nd.edu (susan larsen) writes:
>
>>But the problem is, when a child is completely dependent on their 
>>parents not only for survival, but also protection of their legal 
>>rights, some children are not being kept safe.  What mechanisms protected 
>>Lisa Steinberg from Joel Steinberg?  What mechanisms protected the 
>>little girl from Gary whose parents, a doctor and a school teacher, 
>>fed her poison?  What mechanisms protected the little girl in 
>>Florida, who ended up with AIDS because the system kept returning her 
>>to her guardians?  
>
>Granting children the right to bring legal suits against their parents
>is largely license to harass legally, and a sure means to enrich the legal
>profession. It is the kind of pseudo-liberal nightmare one would expect
>from a "concerned" lawyer: yet another legal method to try to coerce
>people into being "nice" and "responsible", without regard to the realities
>of human behavior and the limits of legal means for achieving social ends.

As I pointed out in my post, children suing parents *may not* be the 
answer, but at least it is an attempt to seek an answer.  I would 
rather see people who are willing to go out on a limb with a proposed 
solution than people who just sit back and tear down those solutions.

Frankly, it may be misplaced to let a 12-year-old sue mom and dad.  
But I sure would love to see the statute of limitations on parental 
abuse lifted so that once these children do reach the age of 
majority, they can sue the living daylights out of parents that beat 
them, parents that made false allegations in custody matters, parents 
that denied proper medical care for flimsy reasons, parents who 
partied on child support money or Social Security money on behalf 
of the kids.   

These former kids should also be allowed to sue Child Protective Services, 
and any other agency, if they botched up the  kid's life.   In fact, 
these former children should also be able to press criminal charges, 
if the actions warrant it. No one, no agency should be left
unaccountable to those for whom they bear responsibility.

>>And, for the *I* story, what mechanism protected my
>>cousin, whose parents did not want to pay for heart surgery, from dying 
>>at the age of 16 when his heart literally exploded?
>
>Very sad; right up there with the stories of children dying because their
>parents refuse blood transfusions for religious reasons. The point, if
>it was missed, is that the courts have upheld the right of parents to
>refuse medical treatments for their children on religious grounds, so
>your cousin would have died from an exploding heart anyway, except that
>his case might have been heard and dismissed by a court, and assorted
>lawyers would have had a chance to practice their impassioned oratory,
>at $100 an hour.

In Indiana, parents have been jailed for refusing necessary medical 
treatments to their children.  A whole religious sect, the Glory Barn, 
felt the brunt of this law.  Saved a few kids lives, at any rate. 
Don't know if the Supreme Court heard any of these cases; do know 
many of the parents are still in prison for it.

>Sue, your faith in lawyers is touching, but misplaced. As a practical
>matter, what do you think will be the typical reaction of a parent
>upon finding out that his/her child is bringing suit? Compromise
>and reconciliation, or alienation and confrontation? Who pays the
>lawyers? What do you suppose will be the effect on the family of a
>lawsuit that was decided in favor of the parents? Who pays for what?

As a practical matter, children have no assets.  Lawyers would have 
to go after the parents for payment. If the case had no merit, 
lawyers fees could not be collected through the parents.  How many 
lawyers do you know would take a case without merit, never to see
a dime for their efforts, just to run up the parents' legal fees?

The way I see it, the court system of this country is in place not 
only to prosecute criminals but as an avenue where I, or any other 
individual, who feels they have been wronged can get a hearing.  
Granted, lawyers  capitalize on the system, but I sure want that 
system in place if someday a poorly built car blows up in my face, 
or some employer stiffs me a paycheck, or a government official says 
they don't like my face so I can't vote, or a doctor leaves a 
surgical sponge in my brain.

No, my faith is not in the lawyers, it is in the courts, the only 
place where an individual citizen can go to get individual justice.
And I care enough for my daughter's welfare and the welfare of other 
children that I believe that that system can be made more responsive 
to the very real needs of children in distress.

Sue Larsen
slarsen@berlin.helios.nd.edu
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