HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Mister Flibbertygib
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 05:02:10 GMT

Janice Miller writes:

	Francis Muir writes:

		The tone and title sound awfully English, in which case 
		the title may properly be *Mr Flibbertigibbet*, a common 
		enough word in English English. The OED quotes use from 
		the 16th Century (Latimer's 2nd Sermon to Edward VI) to 
		present times (by OED definition. Galsworthy's *To Let*). 

	The OED doesn't cite Lerner and Loewe's classic of English 
	literature, "The Sound of Music"?

'Fraid not, Old Fruit. The Gnomes at the Clarendon Press list Latimer as
(dec'd) and were clearly nervous about admitting Galsworthy to their
Pantheon. When you make the OED you're very, very dead.

						Fido
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13568 rec.arts.sf.misc:2311
From: djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: Mandatory negatives (was Re: Agnostics and Athiests)
Date: 31 Jul 92 16:52:37 GMT
Reply-To: djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <1992Jul31.001200.5775@pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:

>Is the atheist permitted to note that, given the absence of evidence
>*for* the existience of the supernatural, that a tentative hypothesis
>of non-existence seems to be in order?  

The atheist may note anything he likes.

The theist may, in response, note that the only *justification* for this claim 
seems to be Occam's principle of parsimony -- which is hardly a natural law; it 
isn't even a law of logic.  (And it was invented for Christian purposes by a 
Christian logician. . .)

The theist may also note that "absence of evidence" is a misstatement.  What the
atheist probably ought to say is "absence of evidence which the atheist is 
willing to consider valid."  The theist may go on to observe that the atheist
is free to discard or disregard whatever evidence he chooses, but reminds him
that similar discarding and disregarding was once used to support the well-known
fact that stones didn't fall from the sky.

		He's got a mask that's black and white
		  Mine's just black but that's all right
		In silence and cunning he plies his trade
		  I ply mine in silence and shade
		[. . .]
		In the heart of the city it's murder time
		  It ain't no crime to kill a mime
			-- "Killing a Mime" by Visual Purple

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, Net.Roach
My opinions do NOT represent Pacific Bell,
Professional Development, or anyone else.
But I'm willing to share.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: Or Shakespeare either (was: I don't like Dickens...so sue me!
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:30:54 GMT


I wrote:

>As I've grown older, I am thankful for the large number of required classes
>that I had as an undergraduate, and think that there should be more.

spb0457@zeus.tamu.edu (SubGenius) writes:

> Funny, I've never really regarded classes as the premium mode of learning.
> Although it is sometimes nice for someone else to tell you at what pace
> you should be internalizing something, in general I've found that I pick
> up things better if left to my own devices.

I will agree with this for the most part.  There are several disciplines where
one must first reach a certain level before going out on one's own.  There
are rare individuals who can teach themselves Calculus or Physics, but a
good foundation is usually found in the classroom.

But many people do not take the opportunity to learn outside the classroom.
When I was an undergraduate, too many people were interested in taking easy
courses.  I took very hard courses, but would have avoided all of the
humanities had those classes not been required.  My first exposure to
Philosophy was a horrid experience, and would have soured me from the
field had I not been required to take three more classes.  I subsequently
took 11 more in graduate school, where I was exposed to works I might never
have seen had I not taken the classes.

Literature is a field that I have never studied.  But I was lucky enough
to have married a woman who did, and who offered me guidance.

> Not implying that organized schooling is useless (your ability to play along
> while watching "Jeopardy" might improve), but at most I'd call any
> course a foundation for further study.

And this was exactly my point about Shakespeare.  A knowledge of Shakespeare
is essential as a foundation.  I am certainly willing to agree that the
knowledge needn't come from a class.

> Although I've taken classes in roughly every area of study I can think
> of (with the exception of "Human Sexuality"--I seem to have sussed most
> of this out from instinct and sketches on restroom walls), the only
> class that I can really say I got a lot out of was an intermediate
> fencing class I took a while back (really helped my counter six).

Because this group is about books, I have mentioned my ex-wife several
times.  I rarely mention my wife, here.  SubGenius has given me an opening:

Human Sexuality is a field that I have never studied.  But I was lucky enough
to have married a woman who did, and who offered me guidance.


Mark


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:24:55 GMT

rubinoff@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Robert Rubinoff) writes:

>Actually, the second flaw is an instance of a more general problem with this
>type of reasoning: how do we know what God(s) want(s) us to do?  Maybe God
>prefers non-believers in general; there's just no possible way to estimate the
>odds.

  christians believe the bible indicates god's will and directions for us.
from the bible, it is easy to conclude that god does not prefer non-believers.

  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: johne@or.credence.com (John Ewing)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Great last sentences
Date: 21 Jul 92 18:04:52 GMT
Organization: Credence Systems Corp. Beaverton, OR

Charles Dickens: "Tale of Two Cities"

Check out the first paragraph (i.e. "It was the best of times, it was
the worst of times ...") and the last paragraph (i.e. "Tis a far, far
noblier thing that I do for my country ...") of the book.

John Ewing (johne@or.credence.com)
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:12897 rec.arts.sf.misc:2166 rec.humor:24343 alt.folklore.urban:19593
From: jimj@cleanplate.EBay.Sun.COM (James D. Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: help please, when did Isaac Asimov die?
Date: 23 Jul 1992 19:17:32 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: cleanplate.ebay.sun.com

In article <1992Jul23.180147.11834@news.cs.brandeis.edu> st890270@pip.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>jheath@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Jim Heath) writes
>>But do atheists _go_ anywhere when they die?
>
>yup.Low income housing, somewhere in a back corner of limbo.

Nope.  They go to Heck, which is sort of like an eternal college faculty
party in a large, rambling flat.  It's always 11:30 p.m. on Friday night,
the bathtub's full of imported beer, and they've got good Mondavi jug wine in
the kitchen.  If you're not lucky, though, you might end up arguing
phenomenology with a bearded guy in a tweed jacket (pipe smoker, of course)
until the end of time.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: 10726446@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (LAU WAI KUEN)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests; Question
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 03:10:05 GMT

In article <sbuckley.712265095@sfu.ca> sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley) writes:
>From: sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley)
>Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
>Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:24:55 GMT

>rubinoff@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Robert Rubinoff) writes:

>>Actually, the second flaw is an instance of a more general problem with this
>>type of reasoning: how do we know what God(s) want(s) us to do?  Maybe God
>>prefers non-believers in general; there's just no possible way to estimate the
>>odds.

>  christians believe the bible indicates god's will and directions for us.
>from the bible, it is easy to conclude that god does not prefer non-believers.

>  

   Athiest literally means 'no god' doesn't it?  So an athiest is someone 
who hasn't a god to worship to; whatever the reason.  So what does that make 
an agnostic; someone who has 'no gnos'?

   Don't tell me- my dog has no gnos. How does he smell?

Halcyon

"Pardon me if I deign to interfere with your dilligent joint efforts to 
encourage mutation through radioactivity."

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
From: st890270@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (LUCIFER)
Subject: Re: help please, when did Isaac Asimov die?
Reply-To: st890270@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:01:47 GMT

jheath@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Jim Heath) writes
>But do atheists _go_ anywhere when they die?

yup.Low income housing, somewhere in a back corner of limbo.
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Great last sentences
Date: 22 Jul 92 05:41:50 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1992Jul22.013857.2385@athena.mit.edu> kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan) quotes Charles Dickens:
>
>	It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was
>the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of
>belief, it was the age of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it
>was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the
>winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before
>us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the
>other way--in short, the period was so far like the present period,
>that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received,
>for good, or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.
>
>Dickens - just a hack? Naaaa!
>
>Keith
>
>

OK, that *is* a great opening sentence. But in general I tend
to think that the trouble with Dickens is "too many words!".
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.books.reviews
From: john@iastate.edu (John Hascall)
Subject: Re: RAH
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 03:19:33 GMT

alisg@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes:
  [...Farnham's Freehold...]
}That leads me to my question: Have any of you gone back and re-read books from
}any genre that you loved/liked as a child, up through, say, high school? Did
}the book hold up well?  Was it awful?

I've reread my childhood favorite, _The Phantom Tollbooth_, a couple of times
since and I still find it amusing (but then I'm fairly twisted).  I recently
reread the short story _Rebirth_ which is, I think, the first SF I read and
I think it still holds up really well.  I suppose like most folks, the crummy
old ones are at the bottom of the box (like a Partridge Family book... ;-)

John
-- 
John Hascall                                       ``Live with it pink-boy!''
Project Vincent                                                              
Iowa State University Computation Center                     john@iastate.edu
Ames, IA  50011                                      515/294-9551 [fax -1717]
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster)
Subject: Re: Spoilers - continuing discussion, part 2
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 02:53:43 GMT

I wrote about willed forgetting--a mental maneuver by which you simply
forget any "spoilers" you may have heard--and Keith Morgan replied:
>I would think that this would work well with most modern movies as they
>are usually forgettable, and I think it would work with the blurb read
>in the store for the book to be read in the future; however when you
>see the blurb or read the revealing footnote as you are reading the
>book, then I think this technique difficult of employ.

Difficult of employ?  You mean, like, hard to pull off?   Well, I admit
it does take some practice.  I use visual imagery to effect a lot of my
forgetting.

In the example you give of reading an unfortunately "revealing footnote,"
I'd probably use a combination of two techniques: First, I'd put down
the book, and quickly throw myself into doing something else--something
sufficiently demanding that I wouldn't have mental space in which to
consider the implications of the "spoiler" I just read.  Once I felt
I'd mostly forgotten the spoiler, then, I'd allow my mind to drift
back to the book, and I would make a mental image of erasing the 
revealing footnote.  I've also been known to tape index cards over
blurbs I want to forget that I've read, just to reinforce the empty,
blank spot I've inserted in my brain in place of the spoiler material.

It seems weird to me, when I see on the newsgroups these big discussions
about not "spoiling" the ending of a movie or whatever.  Why not just
forget?  Sherlock Holmes claimed to be able to forget things at will:
when Watson told him that the earth goes around the sun (or some such),
he said he'd endeavor to forget it as soon as possible, because it
would take up space sorely needed for other things.

						--Fiona Webster
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13410 alt.books.reviews:30
From: agathos@ccs.northeastern.edu (Michael W Wojcik)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.books.reviews
Subject: Re: Re-reading (was RAH)
Date: 29 Jul 92 22:25:34 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU

In article <LEE.92Jul28164702@meercat.wang.com> lee@wang.com (Lee Story) writes:
>In article <SWB.92Jul27102057@mitchell.cit.cornell.edu>

[sorry -- the attribution is a bit confused, so I'm not sure who wrote what
here]

>
>Well, Scott has a point.  I first read _The_Brothers_Karamazov_ and
>_Ulysses_ as a teenager, and going back to them I can see that they
>are simply awful.  The same for _Charlotte's_Web_, _Stuart_Little_,
>_The_Trumpet_of_the_Swan_, and (while we're at it)
>_Alice's_Adventures_in_Wonderland_, _The_Phantom_Tollbooth_,
>_A_Wrinkle_in_Time_, and the tales of H.C.A. and those lousy Grimm
>brothers.  Ray Bradbury and Piers Anthony have held up much better.
>
>The $21K/year English teachers tell me this is because people in the
>computer business have inferior discrimination and generally bad taste,
>but I think they're just jealous of our six-figure salaries!

Well, I happen to be holding both an English-teaching job and a computer-
business job (which isn't quite into six figures, but it's just a matter
of time, no doubt), and I'd have to say that in at least one case, you're
completely wrong.  Inasmuch as many of our fellow r.a.b. readers are also
qualified for both fields, I'll bet mine isn't the only dissenting opinion
here.  Of course, I don't believe that "people in the computer business
have inferior discrimination and generally bad taste", but perhaps folks in
the English business know a bit more about books than you give us credit
for.

Piers Anthony holding up better than _The_Phantom_Tollbooth_?  God help us.


Michael Wojcik
-----------------
"Another chapter in my life is closed," said Anne aloud, as she locked her
desk.  She really felt very sad over it; but the romance in the idea of that
"closed chapter" did comfort her a little.
				-- L. M. Montgomery, _Anne of Avonlea_
From: wagner@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Exercise wear for the abundant of flesh
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:50:26 EDT

In article <1992Jul21.035424.23645@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu>, cscdc@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Dan Carpenter) writes:
> 
> Why don't we get back to the topic, or change the subject line. Hmmm?
> 
> Dan
> 
Spandex?
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Reply-To: djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:38:34 GMT

Someone wrote:

>	If you had a bet to take, either for a god and go to 
>'eternal bliss', or that there is no god and take your chances...
>
>where would your money be?

I think someone has misunderstood Pascal's Wager slightly.

The idea was that there are two possibilities:  Either there is a God,
or there isn't.  (Pascal apparently never considered the possibility that
there might be more than one, or that it might not be the Christian God --
semi-reasonable, given his time and place, but not very imaginative at
any rate.)

If there is no God, then behaving as if there were (worshipping, etc.) involves 
the loss of a finite amount of time that might otherwise be productive; 
similarly, behaving as if there were none gains that lost time.  

If there is, then the choice whether or not to behave as if He existed is the
difference (again, presupposing the Christian God) between infinite gain 
(Heaven) and infinite loss (Hell).

Since the difference is the difference between a finite gain/loss, then no
matter *what* the odds are against the existence of God, the minimax on the
bet (modern terms, not Pascal's) requires that you bet on His existence.

An extremely cold-blooded way of arriving at "faith," imio, and one which
actually involves no _faith_ at all.


		He's got a mask that's black and white
		  Mine's just black but that's all right
		In silence and cunning he plies his trade
		  I ply mine in silence and shade
		[. . .]
		In the heart of the city it's murder time
		  It ain't no crime to kill a mime
			-- "Killing a Mime" by Visual Purple

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, Net.Roach
My opinions do NOT represent Pacific Bell,
Professional Development, or anyone else.
But I'm willing to share.
From: daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:13:12 GMT
Subject: Re: Mao II by Don DeLillo
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books

In rec.arts.books, daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom) writes:

> > 
> 
> Well, I am not sure I figured out a central theme.  It covers the
> coopting of writers buy the writing industry and turning ANYTHING
> they write (even revelution) into a commodity.

Damn! Where is my spell checker when I need it?

doug
From: kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Unspoken Words
Date: 29 Jul 92 19:00:26 GMT
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center

In article <1992Jul29.162100.24479@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>Barbara Hlavin writes:
>
>	As for the question of pronunciation, I have found dictionaries 
>	to be helpful. 
>
>Aw shucks, Baba, don't ruin the fun. In any case, who ever understood
>the hieroglyphics that indicate pronunciation? So please step out from
>your miasmatic gloom and get ready to party, since this is the First Notice
>of the First Annual Classic Memorial West Coast Rabbinical Potluck Supper
>and Bookfest, currently being organized by our own Susan Gere. Da da! So,
>no more of that infectious or noxious exhalation from putrescent organic 
>matter, and let the games commence.

This sounds like a real blast.

What kind of games are on the agenda?

-- 
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
uupsi!khazad!kassover	          sharp weapons and dull judges."
kassover@aule-tek.com                   F. Collins
kassover@ra.crd.ge.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.books.reviews
From: Scott Brim <swb@nr-tech.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject: Re-reading (was RAH)
Nntp-Posting-User: @cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University, Ithaca, New York, USA
	<1992Jul24.163227.4521@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk> <1992Jul24.130651@IASTATE.EDU>
	<1992Jul25.233617.11433@slammer.UUCP>,<1992Jul26.160741@IASTATE.EDU>
	<0095E2AA.A3911600@Msu.oscs.montana.edu>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:20:57 GMT

Boy, I'll say.  When I was a kid I loved Tarzan.  I went back and read
the first Tarzan book again a few years ago and it might literally be
the worst thing I've ever read.  My father had the same experience.  I
have no idea why I ever got anything out of it.

In article <0095E2AA.A3911600@Msu.oscs.montana.edu> alisg@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes:

   That leads me to my question: Have any of you gone back and re-read books from
   any genre that you loved/liked as a child, up through, say, high school? Did
   the book hold up well?  Was it awful? Why do you think either reaction
   happened? I took a children's lit course this summer, and had to re-read
   _Charlotte's Web_. I'm really sorry I did, since I had liked it as a kid. I
   really disliked it as an adult. On the other hand, just about all the Ray
   Bradbury that I liked once, I still like. _Rascal_(a children's story about a
   pet raccoon) was so good that I think I enjoyed it as much if not more as an
   adult.
From: kirk@cs.duke.edu (Scooter Corleone)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Escobar of Escobar Hall
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:52:26 GMT
Organization: The Zymurgy Institute

In article <1992Jul28.005946.24456@oracorp.com> harper@oracorp.com (Douglas Harper) writes:
>This in today's paper:
>
>	Bogota, Colombia (AP) -- Drug boss Pablo Escobar likely
>	disguised himself as a woman and promised soldiers huge sums of
>	money when he escaped from prison last week, according to an
>	army report.
>
>I'll bet he was disguised as a washerwoman.
>-- 

Is it safe to make that assumption?

No worries,

Scooter Corleone

--
This soft-cover edition of this post, although rush-released in time for the
holiday, contains the complete text of the original hard-cover edition.
NOT WORD HAS BEEN OMITTED.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,misc.legal
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: The Writings of Socrates
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 02:40:35 GMT

In article <9207290142.AA04924@cfdev1.shearson.com> mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
>
>> egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ed Nilges) writes:
>
>> I am of course experienced in teaching and have read the
>> writings of Socrates.
>
>I'd love to know where Ed found a copy of the writings of Socrates.
>Perhaps it was in the secret room in the library at Princeton, next
>to Aristotle's treatise on comedy?

I figured that that Ed simply had a library card at the Library of Babel.

It reminds me of the list of credits that appears at the front of Count
Korzybski's SCIENCE AND SANITY. Korzybski thanks both Plato *and*
Socrates. Trying to play it safe, I suppose.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,     |"Crime is contagious. If the Government becomes a law-
mnemonic@eff.org | breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every
(617) 864-0665   | man to become a law unto himself. It invites anarchy."
EFF, Cambridge   |         --Brandeis, J., dissenting in Olmstead v. U.S.