HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Pete Jinks <pjj@cs.man.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Recursive descent parsing is better than LL(1)
Reply-To: Pete Jinks <pjj@cs.man.ac.uk>
Organization: Compilers Central
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:42:25 GMT
Keywords: LL(1), parse

Barton Christopher Massey <bart@cs.uoregon.edu> writes:
>I would like to prove or disprove the following conjectures:
> LL(1) Transformability: There exists an algorithm which, given any grammar G
> which is unambiguous and describes an LL(1) language L(G), produces an LL(1)
> grammar G' for the language L(G).
> LL(1) Decidability: There exists an algorithm which, given any grammar G
> which is unambiguous and describes a language L(G), decides whether L(G) is
> an LL(1) language.
>it seems most likely to me that LL1T is true, but I'm skeptical about LL1D.

Bill Purvis <W.Purvis@daresbury.ac.uk> writes:
>... SID... accepts a fairly arbitrary BNF description... produce an LL(1)
>grammar (assuming that the language is LL(1). - the first conjecture.
>...I suspect that in practical terms it probably covers the second conjecture.

jan@klikspaan.si.hhs.nl writes:
>I present a simple contra-example:
>	S -> A | B
>	A -> `x' A `y' | `a'
>	B -> `x' B `z' | `b'
>...`SID may also report failure because
>its attempt to transform the grammar causes it to loop.'

tchannon@black.demon.co.uk (Tim Channon) writes:
>Is this a valid LL(1) solution? S = 'x' {'x'|'a'|'b'} ('y'|'z') | 'a' | 'b'.

Jan's example causes SID problems, so SID may establish LL1T but can't
establish LL1D. I believe this is because his example is not LL(1), but
no-one has said so explicitly so far and I can't find the example in the
Dragon book - is it a well-known example?

To shorten the grammars/languages, I am using the following notation:
	x^n means x repeated n times, [ab] or a|b means a or b
Thus Jan's original language is:
	x^n a y^n | x^n b z^n      for n>=0
Tim's version is:
	x [xab]^n [yz] | a | b
which is not the same at all. Maybe he meant:
	x^n [ab] [yz]^m | a | b    for n,m>=1
	i.e. x^n [ab] [yz]^m       for n,m>=0
which is closer but still not right.

A slightly simpler example, with (I think) the same characteristics as the
original is:
	x^n y^n | x^n z^n i.e. x^n ( y^n | z^n )     for n>=0
This and Jan's original are LR(1), but I believe that they are not LL(n) for
any finite n, as we have to negotiate an indefinitely long string of x-s
before we can chose whether to accept y-s or z-s, but we also have to have
been counting the x-s (i.e. selecting/stacking the "correct" non-terminal
symbol) to be able to accept the right number of y-s or z-s. By contrast:
	x^n [yz]^n
and:
	x^n (y^m | z^m).
are both LL(1).

-- 
Send compilers articles to compilers@iecc.cambridge.ma.us or
{ima | spdcc | world}!iecc!compilers.  Meta-mail to compilers-request.
From: KGODDEN@cmsa.gmr.com
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: educ software pulishers?
Date: 21 Jan 93 19:03:37 GMT
Organization: GM Research Labs

Can anyone tell me of software publishers that specialize in educational
topics?  I've written a Hypercard stack for the Mac (German-English dictionary
with integrated vocab exercises) that (IMHO) is far superior to anything
currently on the market, and I'm looking for a publisher.  I already know
about MECC, but they prefer IBM-compatible software.  I've also talked to
the leading publisher of similar for. lg. software for the Mac, and he
said my stack (which he agreed sounds superior to their product) would not
fit into their product line because it would introduce a different look & feel
from their other language offerings.

Does anyone know the location and/or phone of a company called Intelliware??
That company as well as other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Please send me email at godden@gmr.com.  I can post a summary if there is any
interest.

-Kurt Godden
--------------------
Newsgroups: comp.edu
From: milt_petruk@crame.educ.ualberta.ca (Milt Petruk)
Subject: Announcement: Math Course via Computer
Followup-To: comp.edu
Organization: Canadian Center for the Development of Instructional Computing
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:59:23 GMT



Jan 20, 1993

The Provincial Government of Alberta, in conjunction with the University of
Albertas Canadian Center for the Development of Instructional Computing,
is pleased to announce the completion of Level 4 Mathematics.  This is a
self-contained full year senior level high school mathematics course
delivered totally online and stored on CD-ROM.

----------------------------------------------------

Level 4 Mathematics CD-ROM is a complete course in grade 12 university
entrance-level math.  The equivalent course, when taught in the normal
classroom is more than 125 hours of instruction.  The CD-ROM version
occupies just under 60 mb and  runs on any Macintosh with 2.5 mb with
System 6.0.x and 4mb with System 7.x.  It displays on a 9 inch monochrome
screen.

The course consists of 7 units, Polynomial Functions, Exponential Functions
& Logarithms, Sequences, Series & Limits, Trigonometry, Conic Sections,
Statistics and Permutations & Combinations.  Each unit is divided up into
topics (the number of topics in a unit varies) and each topic is divided up
into several objectives.

Students use a menu-driven front end to display a choice of units.  They
select the unit of choice by clicking on it.  This displays a choice of
topics for that parti
on it.  Students can then choose to take a tutorial on that topic or be
tested on it by entering an interactive test bank dealing with that topic. 


In addition to tutorials which are loaded with animated graphics
three-dimensional movies and interactive learning sequences, students have
access to explorers in four of the units,  Polynomial Functions,
Exponential Functions & Logarithms,  Trigonometry, and Conic Sections. 
Explorers allow students to vary the parameters of equations in each of
these units and instantly observe the effects in a graph window.

---------------------------------------------------

Further details can be obtained from:

Dr. Milt Petruk, Director
The Canadian Center for the Development of Instructional Computing
Room 3-102 Education North
Faculty of Education
University of Alberta
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6G 2G5
Telephone (403) 492-3935  Fax (403) 492-3179 

or by 

Internet: milt_petruk@crame.educ.ualberta.ca

Dr. Petruk will also be presenting at the Florida Educational Technology
Conference in Tampa, Feb. 2-5, 1993.  He will be available to meet with any
interested parties.

:o)

-----------------------------------------------------------
From: gerke@acs.ucalgary.ca (Ken Gerke)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Computer Administed Testing
Date: 27 Jan 93 20:05:43 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta


We're looking for alternatives to the CML module that came with
the PLATO(now CYBIS) system.  The two products I'm aware of are
The Examiner and TenCORE's CML module.  Are there any other
significant products out there in this area that can be used in
either a DOS/LAN environment or a UNIX environment?
-- 

Ken Gerke
Academic Computing Services
(403)220-5079 | gerke@acs.ucalgary.ca
Xref: sparky comp.edu:2377 comp.lang.c++:19936 comp.lang.c:20244
From: je@unix.brighton.ac.uk (John English)
Newsgroups: comp.edu,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Textbooks for Introductory Courses
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:03:52 GMT
Organization: University of Brighton, UK

rahul@ace.syr.edu.npac.syr.edu (Rahul Bhargava) writes:
: Eugene Wallingford (wallingf@nova.cs.uni.edu) wrote:
: : >  A good C text for a first programming course, ...
: : >  a data structures course which introduces C++ and which exploits 
: : >   its appropriateness for ADT's (without requiring a detailed 
: : >   study of C++).
: 
: * C++ Programming lang , Stroustrup
Excellent, but students often tell me they can't understand it!

: * C++ Primer, Lippman
Good, covers templates etc. Quite complete.

: * Using C++ , Eckel
Used to be a good book, but outdated now (covers up to 2.1 only)

: * Programming in C++ , Stark & Denhurst.
A nice introductory text.

All opinions are my own personal prejudices though...
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John English			| Fudd's first law of opposition:
Dept. of Computing		|    If you push something hard enough, it
University of Brighton		|    *will* fall over.
E-mail: je@unix.brighton.ac.uk	| Testlicle's deviant to Fudd's law:
Fax:    0273 642405		|    What goes in, must come out.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.edu
From: qmdbms@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Brian Schott)
Subject: Re: Computer Administed Testing
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 16:28:05 GMT


A friend's daughter studied statistics at the University of Georgia about 2
years ago. She said she was administered tests on computers. I am not
familiar with the system, but perhaps you could locate someone there who is.


-- 
Brian Schott/Decision Sciences Dept.             qmdbms@gsusgi2.gsu.edu
College of Business Administration                         404-651-4070
Georgia State University                  interests: approx. reasoning,
Atlanta, Georgia USA 30303-3083     (B=)       decision support systems
Xref: sparky comp.edu:2370 comp.lang.c++:19819 comp.lang.c:20134
From: dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann)
Newsgroups: comp.edu,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Textbooks for Introductory Courses
Date: 23 Jan 93 18:03:16 GMT
Reply-To: dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann)
Followup-To: comp.edu
Organization: University of Arizona

In article <1993Jan22.102321.3348@newstand.syr.edu>, rahul@ace (Rahul Bhargava) writes:
>* Programming in C++ , Stark & Denhurst.
                                ^^^^^^^^
That's "Dewhurst", I think _____||||||||

This is a pretty good introduction for someone who already knows C.
It doesn't get big-time into object oriented programming, but it
does do a good job of introducing the main new features of C++ and
how to use them.

On the other hand, it's by no means a technical reference, and the
1989 version doesn't say anything about newer features like templates
and exception handling.  (I don't know if there's a later editon or not.)

>* C++ Programming lang , Stroustrup

The new edition contains all the latest language features, including a
fairly extensive language reference.  I just got this one, and I'm only
through the first few chapters, but it appears to be somewhat less well
written than the Dewhurst and Stark book.

I'm not familiar with any of the other texts on your list, though...

-- 
Caught an internal error--.brainrc restored
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Computer Administed Testing
From: Robert L. Blakeley <blakeley@biosci.uq.oz.au>
Date: 24 Jan 93 12:31:27 AEST
Distribution: world
Organization: Department of Biochemistry, Uni of Queensland
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12X-XXMessage-ID: <A7883CD00901742A@blakeley.biosci.uq.oz.au>X-XXDate: Sun, 24 Jan 93 12:32:16 GMTLines: 15

In article <1993Jan21.204347.29488@cabell.vcu.edu> Steven A. Saltzberg,
ssaltz@cabell.vcu.edu writes:
>Virginia Commonwealth University is evaluating a move to computer
>administered testing.  If your university has been using a computer
>system to accomplish this, I would be very interested in hearing
>about your experience, and specifically about what kind of software
>is available to accomplish this task.

I, too, am interested in this, but for use in "progressive assessment" or
Computer Managed Learning (CML).  I'd be very grateful for information
about systems which operate on a UNIX server but can be delivered on
Macintosh computers or via Windows (in either case with printed quizzes
whose answers can be keyed in later by the student).  We are prepared to
design the software, but would prefer to collaborate with others who may
have already sorted out most of the problems.
From: David.Martland@brunel.ac.uk (David Martland)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Software Tools programs wanted
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:09:26 GMT
Organization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Does anyone have the programs described in Kernighan and Plauger's book on software tools?

What I am really interested in is a version of the programs in Modula 2.

Has anyone had any recent experience of using this material - it still seems relevant to me,
although could do with some updating.

David Martland
Brunel University Computer Science Department
 

-- 
David Martland, Dept. of Computer Science, Brunel University, United Kingdom
email: David.Martland@brunel.ac.uk
Tel:   (+44) 0/895 - 274000 ext 2139      [Overseas callers should suppress 
Fax:   (+44) 0/895 - 256186                the leading zero of the area code]
 
Xref: sparky comp.edu:2376 sci.edu:1489
From: thom@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thom kevin gillespie)
Newsgroups: comp.edu,sci.edu
Subject: Re: Teaching kids computers on Mac
Keywords: MacIntosh Kids Computers
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:59:36 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <26JAN199303175332@utrc.utc.com> ree@utrc.utc.com writes:
>I recently got taken up on an offer to help teach kids in elementary 
>school (grades 2-4 now) about computers.  They have Mac's at the school.
>I'd like your ideas for software that will teach them about computers.  
>I don't want games that teach nothing or some other subject.  
>Ideas that have looked good so far include:
>
>   Logo
>   simple AI systems (e.g. building an animal guessing system)
>   something called Warren Robinett's "Rocky's Boots"
>   databases (only if there is some outside interest like a collection)
>
>Bob Erickson                                         #include <disclaimer.std>

What about the basics: word processing and paint programs? My kids have
been raised on computers. They use word processing, graphics, and games.
The reality is they, the kids, don't need to 'know about computers',
having fun is enough, kids usually learn by playing.

--Thom
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Computer Administed Testing
From: ssaltz@cabell.vcu.edu (Steven A. Saltzberg)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:43:47 GMT
Organization: Virginia Commonwealth University
Keywords: Testing
Summary: Looking for info on computer testing systems

Virginia Commonwealth University is evaluating a move to computer
administered testing.  If your university has been using a computer
system to accomplish this, I would be very interested in hearing
about your experience, and specifically about what kind of software
is available to accomplish this task.

Thank you, in advance, for your help.

-- 
Steven Saltzberg
Academic Campus Computing Services
Virginia Commonwealth University

Newsgroups: comp.edu
From: spo7187@ucs.usl.edu (Obili Sai P)
Subject: help wanted in EBL
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern La., Lafayette
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:43:43 GMT

Hi,

Can someone give me information about the following in EBL (Explanation
Based Learning) :

	1) Recent work references
	2) ftp sites for any reports and software
	3) schools where i can pursue my PhD in this area.

I appreciate any help.

Please send replies to : spo7187@ucs.usl.edu

Thanks a lot in advance.

Sai Prabhu.
Newsgroups: comp.edu,sci.edu
From: ree@utrc.utc.com (Bob Erickson)
Subject: Teaching kids computers on Mac
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords:  MacIntosh Kids Computers
Reply-To: ree@utrc.utc.com
Organization: United Technologies Research Center
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 08:17:00 GMT

I recently got taken up on an offer to help teach kids in elementary 
school (grades 2-4 now) about computers.  They have Mac's at the school.
I'd like your ideas for software that will teach them about computers.  
I don't want games that teach nothing or some other subject.  
Ideas that have looked good so far include:

   Logo
   simple AI systems (e.g. building an animal guessing system)
   something called Warren Robinett's "Rocky's Boots"
   databases (only if there is some outside interest like a collection)

Anyone with recommendations on software that is: a) Mac, b) available 
via the net (or at a low price), or comments on the above,
please let me know by email.

I have lots of experience with workstations (Unix, VMS), but almost none
with Mac's.

Thanks in advance.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Erickson                                         #include <disclaimer.std>
ree@utrc.utc.com
United Technologies Research Center
Xref: sparky comp.edu:2359 comp.lang.c++:19688 comp.lang.c:20026
Newsgroups: comp.edu,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
Subject: Textbooks for Introductory Courses
From: wallingf@nova.cs.uni.edu ( Eugene Wallingford )
Date: 21 Jan 93 12:41:15 -0600
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Michigan State University

>  A good C text for a first programming course, ...
>  a data structures course which introduces C++ and which exploits 
>   its appropriateness for ADT's (without requiring a detailed 
>   study of C++).

     I second the call for a discussion of intro textbooks.  At UNI,
     we are moving our Programming I course to C++ -- assuming that
     we can find a suitable text.  Is there such a beast?  Our next
     courses in the sequence, Data Structures and Algorithms, will
     also be taught using C++ as the laboratory language for students,
     but I am not certain to what extent the texts for these courses
     need (or even *should*) be written in the context of C++.  Are
     there any specific comments/pieces of advice that anyone can offer?

-- 
~~~~ Eugene Wallingford   ~~~~  Dept of Computer Science     ~~~~
~~~~ wallingf@cs.uni.edu  ~~~~  University of Northern Iowa  ~~~~
Xref: sparky comp.edu:2363 comp.infosystems:681 comp.misc:4958
From: sivkumar@dolphins.ent.ohiou.edu (Krish Sivakumar)
Newsgroups: comp.edu,comp.infosystems,comp.misc
Subject: How to get connected to ASKQ or Hon/Equal
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:57:15 GMT
Organization: College of Engg. & Tech., Ohio University, Athens, Ohio
Originator: sivkumar@dolphins.ent.ohiou.edu

I am interested in knowing how I can get access to ASKQ or Hon/Equal ( which
from what I heard are electronic support centers for Tech Support )
There are questions that I have about configuring TCP/IP on a RS6000 and
would be glad if there are any other places also where I can get them answered
Thanks
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Krish Sivakumar			Drive Defensively, Buy a tank -
- Dept. of Mechanical Engineering      	-------------------------------
- Ohio University,			-     /\   /\
Newsgroups: comp.edu,comp.lang.c,comp.lang.c++
From: rahul@ace.syr.edu.npac.syr.edu (Rahul Bhargava)
Subject: Re: Textbooks for Introductory Courses
Followup-To: comp.edu,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 10:23:20 EST

Eugene Wallingford (wallingf@nova.cs.uni.edu) wrote:
: >  A good C text for a first programming course, ...
: >  a data structures course which introduces C++ and which exploits 
: >   its appropriateness for ADT's (without requiring a detailed 
: >   study of C++).

:      I second the call for a discussion of intro textbooks.  At UNI,
:      we are moving our Programming I course to C++ -- assuming that
:      we can find a suitable text.  Is there such a beast?  Our next
:      courses in the sequence, Data Structures and Algorithms, will
:      also be taught using C++ as the laboratory language for students,
:      but I am not certain to what extent the texts for these courses
:      need (or even *should*) be written in the context of C++.  Are
:      there any specific comments/pieces of advice that anyone can offer?

: -- 
: ~~~~ Eugene Wallingford   ~~~~  Dept of Computer Science     ~~~~
: ~~~~ wallingf@cs.uni.edu  ~~~~  University of Northern Iowa  ~~~~

I am about to take this course and got the following recommendations 
(not in order of their worth) :

* C++ Programming lang , Stroustrup
* C++ Primer, Lippman
* C++ Answer book , Hansen
* OOP in C++, barkakati
* Using C++ , Eckel
* C++ Programming & Fundamental Concepts, Anderson & Heinze
* An Intro to OOP, Budd
* OO Design with Applications, booch & Cummings
* C++ complete reference, Herbert & Schildt
* Programming in C++ , Stark & Denhurst.

I would appreciate if some one could review them in brief or add to this
list.

Thanks.
--
                                   Rahul Bhargava      
                     (315) 443-4889 office. (315) 475-3545 home.
                 rahul@joker.npac.syr.edu / rbhargav@rodan.acs.syr.edu
From: tan@cs.uh.edu (Jack S. E. Tan)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Information Sought Regarding Computer Literacy Course
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:18:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: menudo.1k13s9INNbqp
Organization: Computer Science Dept.,  Univ. of Houston
NNTP-Posting-Host: bach.cs.uh.edu


Hello everyone,

Our dept. is planning to add a computer literacy course to our curriculum.
We would like to target undergraduates from as many different majors as
possible for this campus-wide service course. We have similar course 
descriptions from a few universities and they are varied. We would like to
hear from people out there in netland about their experiences in these
courses. Specifically:

1. What topics should be included? Excluded?
2. Should BASIC be taught? Other languages?
3. Is a PC platform sufficient?
4. What should be emphasized more? Less?
5. How long should a lab session be to be adequate?
6. Textbooks to be used.

and any other insightful suggestions/criticisms, etc. Email or postings
are welcomed.

Thanking everyone in advance.

Jack Tan
Curriculum Committee
Computer Science Dept.
University of Houston
Houston, TX 77204-3475
Xref: sparky comp.edu:2364 comp.lang.lisp:3327 comp.lang.c:20063 comp.lang.pascal:8424 comp.lang.modula2:1723 comp.lang.modula3:1139
From: r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Info Request, Gator Boxes and Pathworks (1)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 13:03:01 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville


Entry: 1
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 07:42:58 EST
From: IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.COM" Robert Royar, (C&CD Moderator)
Message-id: <1993Jan24.074258.v7.071.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject: Info Request, Gator Boxes and Pathworks (1)
Reply-to: "Computers & Composition Digest (R. Royar)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software
Lines:

NYIT may soon be able to connect a Mac Lab to some VAXen. Our MIS
administrator (who's very excited about the idea) said he knew of two ways
we could go
  1. a GATOR box connected into a MAC lan and
  2. Pathworks for (each?) computer on an EtherNet system.
I have a few questions:
  1. Did Bob Boston have difficulty with a GATOR Box earlier?
  2. Has anyone any experience with G-Boxes connected to Vax 750 series,
     8650 series or 2000 series computers? Elaborate please.
  3. Is any lab using Parthworks to connect Vax and Mac? If so, what's your
     evaluation of the product?
  4. Those who use Eudora, what are the Vax/Mac configurations needed for it?
We will have a multipurpose lab with classes scheduled in it most of the
time. There may be some use of the machines for Sixel Graphics on the Vax
(which seems to rule out the GATOR box and LocalTalk approach?). I'm unsure
of the Vax front end configuration (they will of install a new front end
also). The current front end is looked into old technology (1200 baud direct
line!).

Please respond directly to me at
 robertroyar@delphi.com (preferred) or r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
if possible to avoid the net chatter. I'll try to keep all the responses
together and mail out a summary later.

 -- Robert Royar (RobertRoyar@Delphi.com) New York Institute of Technology
    "Computers are potentially the most addictive drug yet devised."
                                                             -R. U. Sirius

------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.edu.composition