HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alvin@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Kenneth Alvin)
Subject: Re: 401(k) Rollover Advice
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:45:07 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.162109.22057@cbnews.cb.att.com> lib@cbnews.cb.att.com (Lib) writes:
>From article <prspool.720888204@terra>, by prspool@siemens.com. (Peter Spool):
>
>> Do NOT, under any circumstances, accept a check made out to you, for the 401(k)
>> funds.  If you accept a check to you, the following "CATCH-22" situation will arise:
>> 
>> (1) Taxes are due on the 401(k), plus a 10% penalty for early withdrawal,
>>     and these will be removed BEFORE the check is written.
>
>This is hogwash. Ignore it. All you have to do is ASK that they not withhold.

Someone else may have already noted this, but it bears repetition.  The
IRS has CHANGED THE RULES effective 1/1/93 which will mandate 20%
withholding on all 401(k) disbursements including rollovers EXCEPT when
the funds are DIRECTLY transferred to another qualifying tax-deferred
investment account (i.e. another company's 401 plan).

This is important because in order to avoid the early withdrawl penalty
AND pay no tax, you must rollover 100% of the disbursement, even though
20% has withheld.  This means you must cover that 20% out of other funds
until the money is refunded to you by the IRS, after you next tax return
is filed.  For example, if you leave a company and take a 401(k)
disbursement of $100,000 with you to be rolled over into a private IRA
or a new 401(k) plan, the old employer will withhold $20,000 which it
will deliver to the IRS.  But within 60 days you must deposit $100,000
into an IRA or 401(k) to avoid early withdrawl penalty and taxes.  Since
the check from the old employer was only $80,000, you must come up with
$20,000 from somewhere.

My wife's employer detailed all of this in a recent letter.  They did
not indicate that this was just an option.  According to their letter, 
the ONLY WAY to avoid this situation when rolling over a 401(k) is to 
arrange a direct fund-to-fund transfer.  

This rule goes into effect Jan. 1, 1993.

Anyone who has further information or clarification, please post.

Ken

-- 
comments, criticism welcome...
-Ken
alvin@ucsu.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: drhall1@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Doug R. Hall)
Subject: Re: The TICk
Reply-To: drhall1@PacBell.COM (Doug R. Hall)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:39:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.093518.1668@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu> silverman@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes:
>In article <1992Oct30.230325.14089@ntmtv>, janet@ntmtv.bnr.ca (Janet Jakstys) writes:
>> Hi Investors,
>> 
>> I am just starting to get interested in investing and in the stock
>> market.  So much terminology to learn...
>> 
>> Here's my question...
>> What is "THE TIC?"
>
>  Now, Denny Silverman responds:
>
>  From Silverman@guvax.georgetown.edu
>
>  Janet, 
>
>  The tick is a way of measuring immediate moves in stocks.  The tick
>  is defined as the number of stocks on the NYSE whose last trade 
>happened at a price higher than the previous trade, minus the number 
>of stocks whose last trade happened at a price lower than the previous 
>trade.  So if you read that the closing tick was +134 that means that 
>134 more stocks traded higher than their previous trade at the closing
>bell than stocks trading lower than their previous trade.  It's a lot 
>like the advance - decline line, except that the A - D line calculates
>the number of stocks whose last trade happened at a price higher than 
>their opening price minus the number whose last trade happened at a 
>price lower than the opening price.  I hope that makes sense.  It 
>really is just a way of measuring how the overall market is doing.  
>The advance - decline line tells you if the market is moving up over 
>the course of the whole day, while the Tick tells you if the overall 
>market is moving up at that moment in time.  By the way, an uptick 
>means that a stock's last trade is above the price of its previous 
>trade.

I am confused. First you say the "tick tells you if the overall market is
moving up" and then you say in the last sentence that the "uptick means that a
stock's last trade is above the price of its previous trade." 

So is the tick a measurement of the entire market or just one stock?
Is uptick different from tick?

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: cnguyen@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Cuong Nguyen)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: JWP ??????
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:43:15 GMT
Reply-To: cnguyen@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Cuong Nguyen)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

What is going on with JWP?  It currently trades at bottom of the
year.

Thanks for any information.

CQN4
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: jeff@venice.sedd.trw.com (Jeff Pesis)
Subject: TBSP Index Program For Sale!
Organization: TRW Systems Engineering & Development Division, Carson, CA
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 18:36:10 GMT

I have a copy of the TBSP index trading program that I would like to sell.
The original cost is $600.  I also have $120 worth of data for the program to
go along with it, as well as the original manual and program disk.  Anyone
interested can reach me at the address below.  I will be open to any reasonable
offer.  Thanks!

Jeff Pesis

jeff@venice.sedd.trw.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: vos@helix.nih.gov (Peter Vos)
Subject: Questions about Whole Life Insurance from New York Life
Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 03:09:11 GMT

Hello Netters,
 Here are some questions for those savvy in the ways of insurance.
 Recently, my wife and I began to consider the possibility of
 buying life insurance.  We spent several hours with an independent
 agent who was pushing New York Life.
 We had settled on whole life insurance for each of us.  My wife has
 greater earning potential than I do, and my debt burden is nil.  Our
 concerns were 1) to provide money to cover kids college costs (assume
 two-although none exist as yet); 2) to cover any mortgage costs on
 a house (as yet not purchased); and 3) to provide a form of retirement
 income as we are not invested in any pension plans.
 	We discounted term life insurance since we have the
 means to pay the premiums on whole life, and because of the interest
 in providing some source of income for our dotage.
 										  Some questions:
 	Can the premium be changed after the start of the
policy even if I don't change the value of the policy.  How does one
determine the viability of an insurance company through easily 
available information in the the public domain?
	  What is a reasonable internal rate of return?  How
does one calculate internal rate of return?  The agent calculated
about 7%+ over twenty years.  That looked like about 4.3% if the
whole amount had been invested as a lump sum with simple interest.
What good are the quarantees that New York Life will be able
to meet the projected dividend payments?  What happens if they fail
to meet these projected levels?  What good is the guarantee that
I will be able to borrow the equity from this account in the future
without triggering a "taxable event"?
																					 Finally, what two other questions would you be asking an
insurance agent before you signed on the dotted line?
Thanks for any info or pointers or experiences you have to offer.
Peter.

vos@helix.nih.gov
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: philco@microsoft.com (Phillip Cooper)
Subject: Re: A waste: putting money in savings A/C..
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:24:46 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Nov11.015817.20219@Princeton.EDU> ajackson@ernie.Princeton.EDU (Andrew William Jackson) writes:
>In article <1992Nov11.014049.25983@novell.com> anand@novell.com writes:
>>
>>The Normal savings A/C in a bank gives less than 3% interest.
>>The present value of inflation is approximately 3%.
>>
>>For $10,000 deposit, one will receive an interest of $300.00.
>>If you are in the 33% tax braket,  $100 will go to Uncle Sam.
>>You are left with only $10,200.00.
>>
>>If you adjust ($10,200) for inflation, it is equivalent to $9902.91.
>>
>>Eventually you lost: 10000 - 9902.91 = $97.09
>>
>>Am i missing something?.
>
>
>No.  
>
>- ajackson@ernie.princeton.edu

Well....  Technically, this is correct, but one point which should be
made is that he is using the marginal tax rate for this calculation.  This
might be the correct way to view this, but you could just as easily view
that income as part of the first earned income of the year which is taxed
(roughly) at 15%.  Of course, that would push other income into the 
marginal bracket, so the net effect would be the same.

Phil Cooper
From: jpau@oracle.com (Jeffrey Pau)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: DELL Computers
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:10:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: oracle.1992Nov9.231031.20908
Organization: Oracle Corp
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

Any opinion (buy, sell, or hold)?  

Thanks,
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: acheng@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Albert Cheng)
Subject: Re: A waste: putting money in savings A/C..
Originator: acheng@shalom.ncsa.uiuc.edu
Organization: Nat'l Ctr for Supercomp App (NCSA) @ University of Illinois
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:05:31 GMT


In article <1992Nov11.014049.25983@novell.com>, anand@novell.com writes:
>
>The Normal savings A/C in a bank gives less than 3% interest.
>The present value of inflation is approximately 3%.
>
>For $10,000 deposit, one will receive an interest of $300.00.
>If you are in the 33% tax braket,  $100 will go to Uncle Sam.
>You are left with only $10,200.00.
>
>If you adjust ($10,200) for inflation, it is equivalent to $9902.91.
>
>Eventually you lost: 10000 - 9902.91 = $97.09
>
>Am i missing something?.

Yea, go work harder and push yourself into the 31% bracket.  That
will save you $6.00.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Compuserve Quick Quote Alternatives?
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 92 17:49:08 CST
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

jih@crane.aa.ox.com (John I. Hritz) writes:

> 	One of the admins in our office is constantly dialing into
> CI$ to check on the prices on her investment clubs portfolio.  They
> (compuserve) charge connect time and 1.5 cents a quote.  I flippantly
> mentioned that there has to be a cheaper and easier way to get quotes.
> Any ideas?

Doing it on her own time? Should save the office quite a bit of money...
Besides, she'd get off-hour rates.

Gary Heston, at home....                ...yes, I have a CI$ account,
gary@cdthq.uucp                           which I use about twice a year...
From: chatzi@beauty.asd.sgi.com (Chatzigianis Tony)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Investing in an Inflationary Environment?
Date: 5 Nov 92 20:42:36 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: beauty.asd.sgi.com

In article <sehari.720988561@class1.iastate.edu>, sehari@iastate.edu (Babak Sehari) writes:
|> In <1992Nov05.151851.32557@ux1.cts.eiu.edu> cfwpm@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Bill McGown) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> >Now that the votes are counted I feel quite strongly that we will
|> >see a resurgance of inflation and upwardly moving interest rates.
|> >What investiments should one look to to profit from these trends?
|> >(That is, if they develop.) 
|> >If there is sufficient interest I will summarize and post responses to
|> >the net.
|> 
|> >Many thanks... Bill.
|> 
|> >-- 
|> Conventional wisdom say gold, but as you know conventional wisdom is not
|> working anymore.  Therefore, I guess foreign currency and assets.  Specially
Why not Real Estate ?
|> those of south east Asian countries, such as Korea, Japan.  Off course, this
|> assumes that china does get very upset in future.
|> 
|>                         With highest regards,
|>                              Babak   Sehari.
|>  
|> -- 

-- 
*********************************************************
An eye for an eye		  Tony Chatzi
will make the world go blind      ASD Video x3418
*********************************************************
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: wang@cedar.nrl.navy.mil (Dennis Wang)
Subject: Re: General Motors
Reply-To: wang@cedar.nrl.navy.mil
Organization: Naval Research Lab
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:23:33 GMT

One of the interesting things about the GM shakeup is that they are going to take away Saturn's autonomy.  The Saturn organization is being integrated into the regular GM
structure.

Incredible isn't it.  They are going to take the one part of the company that works well and merge it back into the part that doesn't work....Well I guess that's why the
president of GM gets the big bucks...

---
Dennis Wang
Solar Physics Branch - Code 7660
U.S. Naval Research Laboratory.
4555 Overlook Ave SW
Washington DC 20375-5000

E-mail: wang@cedar.nrl.navy.mil
Voice : (202)-767-3137	Fax   : (202)-404-7997'

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: dmw@taurus.ece.cmu.edu (Hank Walker)
Subject: Stocks vs. Bonds
Originator: dmw@taurus.ece.cmu.edu
Reply-To: dmw@ece.cmu.edu
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:31:22 GMT


I have been investing directly only in stocks since my time horizon is long,
and everything I've read always lists stocks as the highest return
investment for a reasonable level of safety.  But many investment articles
list a mix of ~70% stock, ~20% bond, and ~10% cash for those with a long
time horizon, but don't really give an explanation, other than that holding
a mix of investments is good.  So I've split my 403(b) funds 75/25 between
stock (CREF) and fixed income (TIAA).  I'd like to have a more rational
basis for making this split.

Does anyone have a pointer to a good article on bonds vs. stocks, and
investing in a mix of them?  The only thing I've found is the money movement
method in Charles Givens books, which essentially claims you can predict
whether you should be in stocks, bonds, or money market based on interest
rates.  I'm more interested in articles on stocks and bonds that assume more
passive strategies such as dollar cost or value averaging.
From: watson@ccsf.caltech.edu (Stephen H. Watson)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Offset 401(k) Rollover Withholding
Date: 11 Nov 1992 18:08:08 GMT
Organization: CCSF Caltech, Pasadena, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: sampson.ccsf.caltech.edu

In article <1992Nov11.040743.26963@news.eng.convex.com>, Dave Dodson <dodson@convex.COM> writes:
|> In article <BxJ25L.zH@taligent.com> cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus) writes:
|> >In article <1992Nov11.001442.10923@sequent.com> bills@sequent.com (Bill Sears) writes:
|> >>How about this.  If you know you are going to be getting shafted by the
|> >>new rule, change your W-4 to claim MANY allowances (like 40 or something).
|> >
|> >That's a no-no.  When you sign your W-4, you are signing that you
|> >believe (and have a rational basis for) the number of allowances you
|> >are claiming.
|> 
|> But you _do_ have a rational basis for the number you are claiming, and
|> the IRS cannot force you to be overwithheld, even if they would like to.
|> 
|> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
|> 
|> Dave Dodson		                             dodson@convex.COM
|> Convex Computer Corporation      Richardson, Texas      (214) 497-4234

I do not believe there are any restrictions on the number of allowances
that you may claim.  I've adjusted mine up or down many times in
the past in order to make my Federal taxes correct come April 15th
(not too much or too little withheld).  If you claim a huge amount,
the IRS may feel like they have to check it out, but I agree with Dave,
I don't think they can force you to claim < X allowances.

Steve Watson
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: jli@lark.utah.edu (Jianliang Li)
Subject: Re: CHINA - closed end funds - information
Organization: University of Utah
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 22:00:09 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.173206.17212@qualcomm.com> antonio@qualcomm.com (Franklin Antonio) writes:
>
>I posted a question a few weeks ago asking for phone numbers of the
>three new closed-end funds investing in China.  I got a large number
>of responses, but most were from folks requesting that I distribute
>the info when i received it.  (The rest were from kind souls explaining
>to me that it might be risky to invest in China.)  So, assuming there is 
>some interest, here's the info...
>                      
>		      Symbol    Info ph#
>Greater China Fund      GCH     800-852-4750
>China Fund              CHN     212-667-6000
>Jardine Fleming China   JFC     800-638-8540
>
>These are all new.  Started in July.  You can get a prospectus by
>calling the numbers shown above.  
>
>Disclaimer:  This is not a recommendation.  Just info.
>


	Thanks for the info.  As a Chinese mainlander, I think there is
a great potential to invest in China.  You know China is socialism or
communism.  Stock markets and market economy have basically just started.
A good beginning and China's face are more important than anything else 
for Chinese government.  So, at this very beginning, only companies with
good solid past performances are allowed to issue stocks.  Because
these companies can earn reputation for Chinese stock market and thus
Chinese government.  These companies are treated with special government
(like tax) policies.  It should also be pointed out that two types of 
stocks are issued by Chinese companies: Type A and Type B.  Type A stocks
can be purchased only by Chinese or people in China (?) using Chinese
currency (RenMingBi).  Type B stocks can only be purchased using foreign
currency like U$. Therefore, most Chinese citizens have no way to buy
Type B stocks.  I assume that all those China funds are used to purchase
Type B stocks.

	Unfortunately, I have no idea about the performances of those
China funds.  I called Jardine Fleming China Fund yesterday to get some
information.  I will be interested to hear comments on China funds' 
performaces from those account holders.


JLI
================================================================================
      	 	       ******* RULES OF LIFE ******* 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	     RULE NO. 1:  YOUR BOSS IS ALWAYS RIGHT!
	     RULE NO. 2:  IF YOUR BOSS IS WRONG, GO TO RULE NO. 1.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        JLI@MINES.UTAH.EDU (Jianliang Li)    PENN STATE '90  UTAH '2000
================================================================================


Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: 401(k) Rollover Advice
Keywords: rollover, 401(k), retirement
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 19:27:35 CST
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

sawyer@twg.com (Bruce B. Sawyer) writes:

> Not true.  It was a very intentional change--part of the deal Bush made with
> congress in signing into a law a bill which would extend jobless benefits
> beyond the then-current six month limit.  This change was designed to raise
> some of the funds needed to keep the extension "revenue neutral".  Even thoug
> most people who take direct control will do a rollover within 60 days, so tha
> they then get to claim the 20% withheld as a tax credit the next April 15, 
> the Treasury still gets to pocket the interest that 20% earned between the
> time it was withheld and the following April 15.  

You've missed one detail: if you don't deposit the total amount of your
401(k) or whatever, you lose the tax-deferred status of the amount not
deposited. You must make up (from whatever source) the 20% within the
60 day deadline, or you are *forced* to take it as a penalized withdrawl,
and pay the tax/penalty on it. This is a far greater concern, and does
*much* more damage to your account, than the comparatively trivial
interest you'll lose. That's why many people are up in arms about it.

Gary Heston, at home....
gary@cdthq.uucp
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: koziarz@chinet.chi.il.us (Louis Koziarz)
Subject: Re: How can you hear announcements immediately??
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:53:48 GMT

In article <BxL0xC.1GG@news.cso.uiuc.edu> schneid@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mike Schneider) writes:
>I've been wondering what the fastest way to hear announcements is.

Obviously any kind of quick information is going to cost you.  I happen to
use CompuServe, a basic quote service is included with the new $7.95/month
unlimited basic price structure (CIS's answer to Prodigy).  

When a news item exists for a stock, a flag appears next to the quote.
You can retrieve it from the value-added news service.  Once you
know your way in and out, it takes about 1-2 min and about $0.30. 
CompuServe captures releases pretty quickly, within 30 min or so, and gets
them from AP, Reuters, UPI, corporate press release, US Govt, etc.

I'm sure there are cheaper ways out there, but for what I need it costs
me about $12/month.  Good luck!
-- 
Louis Koziarz
koziarz@chinet.chi.il.us
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: meyers@lorenz.ocean.fsu.edu (Steve Meyers)
Subject: Re: Compuserve Quick Quote Alternatives?
Organization: Florida State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 20:42:43 GMT

In article <lfllb3INNsdm@crane.aa.ox.com> jih@crane.aa.ox.com (John I. Hritz)  
writes:
> 	One of the admins in our office is constantly dialing into
> CI$ to check on the prices on her investment clubs portfolio.  They
> (compuserve) charge connect time and 1.5 cents a quote.  I flippantly
> mentioned that there has to be a cheaper and easier way to get quotes.
> Any ideas?

CI$ has an alternative pricing plan. For $8/mo or so, you get 
unlimited connect time for basic services that includes quotes 
of common and preferred stocks, plus a selection of other basic 
services. It's is what I use to avoid 
the per quote fee and connect time charges.
 
Tell her to send a message to Customer Service and ask about the 
Alternative Pricing Plan (I think that's the name).

-Steve
From: 6500amd@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Amitav Das)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Preferred stocks
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:39:02 GMT
Distribution: misc


Hi Netters:

Could any one of you enlighten me about preferred stocks? I know that
they come in between bond and stocks ie pfd stock holders have to paid
before stock-holders (and after bond holders are paid) in case a 
company goes belly up and their dividends have to be always paid
(is that true?).

What I like to know is when to buy them and when to sell them, what
market condition drives their prices up/down, when are they more/less
attractive than common stock (I know that some are callable at a set
price and hence has less/minimal growth potential than common stock), 
how do their price depends on economy and interest rates, and anything
else you know about them. Do their price have any correlation with
the price of the common stock of the same company?

If there is interest I`ll post the responses. Please e-mail to
das%kane@ece.ucsb.edu.

Thanks in advance!

Amitav Das.
Dept. of ECE. UC-Santa Barbara.