From: aabdalla@pollux.usc.edu (Ahmed Abd-Allah)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Islamic stories...
Date: 8 Sep 1992 00:04:18 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

In article <1992Sep6.032304.3950@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> johnson@offroad.chem.wisc.edu (Arthur Johnson) writes:
>In article <la7rbsINNt7c@pollux.usc.edu> aabdalla@pollux.usc.edu (Ahmed  
>Abd-Allah) writes:
>> ->Article 68194 of talk.religion.misc:
>> ->From: johnson@whitewater.chem.wisc.edu (Arthur Johnson)
>
>    (Disputing the six vs. eight day creation)

[Lots of good stuff deleted - sorry!]

>   No dispute here. Looking at other parts of the Koran to try to resolve  
>an ambiguity is perfectly legitimate. I do it myself with the Gospel.

I really mean no disrespect by deleting most of your posting, but as you
say, this discussion has dragged on.  I believe I haven't demonstrated
conclusively to you the soundness of my claims, but neither have you 
regarding your own interpretation to me.  Sometimes it is better to 
stop debate, although I am willing to continue this if you really want to.
It was nice to hear from you, in spite of our differences.

>> certain assumptions about [41:9-12]; they see these other verses ("six  
>days")
>> as clarifying [41:9-12] - with no assumptions.
>     Here you are simply incorrect, Ahmed. Muslim scholars most certainly  
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I am most happy to admit my error in this case, especially considering your
posting of these assumptions below.  Thank you for pointing out my mistake.

>_do_ approach the Koran with certain key assumptions, to whit:
>     (1) It is impossible for the Truth to be self-contradictory
>     (2) All of God's revelations to humanity are true
>     (3) Being true, it is impossible for any of God's revelations to  
>humanity to be self-contradictory

Muslims do acknowledge that one revelation may differ from the next in minor
details (ie Jewish vs Muslim prohibited foods), but the 'fundamentals' are
considered immutable (ie the Oneness of God, the purpose of man).  However,
you would be correct to say that the Qur'an is considered free of contradiction
within itself.

>     (4) All of God's revelations to humanity were delivered to Muhammed  
>(this does not mean that they were delivered _only_ to Muhammed, just that  
>they were at least delivered to him)
>     
>     (5) The Koran is the uncorrupted, complete transcription of all of  
>God's revelations to humanity, delivered to Muhammed
>     
[stuff deleted]

>     I want to make a few additional comments. The last couple of posts  
>have been devoted to the issue of creation and the six day vs. eight day  
>controversy. This has left me with a mild case of vertigo, meaning that  
>it's definitely time for a reality check. Being an evolutionary  
>biologist/chemist, it is _very_ clear to me that earth and the heavens  
>were most certainly _not_ created in either six days or eight days, but  
>over a period of several billion years. Thus [41:9-12], [10:3], [11:7],  
>and [7:54] are in contradiction with the facts of reality (so is Genesis  
>1, btw). Whenever I find a contradiction, I always try to check my  
>premises. In light of this, Muslim scholars may want to check some of  
>their premises as well.    

They do not need to.  Please see my earlier posting on the Qur'an and science
to this newsgroup (do you want an email copy?).  The Qur'an makes it quite 
clear that a 'Day' in the sight of God can mean periods of time far longer
than the standard 24 hours - unlike Genesis 1.  To get you started, if you
don't want a copy of my posting, see verses [22:47], [32:5], and [70:4] for
three different contexts where God uses 'Day' to designate a very long period
of time.  

Aside: The Arabic word 'ayam' has a double meaning: 'days' and 'a long time,
era' (Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary).  And incidentally, I don't bring
up the Arabic to "argue by awe".  Those types of arguments are not based on
truth and honesty.  However, in this particular case, I thought it would be
helpful to state the double meaning of an Arabic word.  I believe one can
use 'days' in English to mean a long time as well.

>Arthur Johnson
>johnson@offroad.chem.wisc.edu

Ahmed Abd-Allah