HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tam@mobydick.base.bellcore.com (Tom Merkel )
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Marraige and Apartheid
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:06:58 GMT
Reply-To: tam@westmark.com (Tom Merkel )
Organization: Bellcore


There are people in this world who didn't figure it
all out before doing "straight" things.  There are
many men and women who married, raised children,
created complex lives with deep relationships before
coming out,  first to themselves and others.

Should all of this be swept away?  Should a gay/bi
father walk away from spouse and children,  send
them a check once a month and live happily ever
after in solidarity with their queer brothers and 
sisters?  It seems most people, straight and not,
seek to put the same limits on behaviors.  Why is
the practical effect of queer and straight morality
the same,  to cordon people into very little boxes.

Of course,  what do I know.  I'm just part of the
system of opression and glowing dots on your screen,
not a flesh and blood person.

--Tom
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Lycra (was Re: Edinburgh soc.bi party)
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:54:29 GMT
Organization: Eris's Restaurant

In article <AAG.92Jul20163740@artemis.aber.ac.uk> aag@aber.ac.uk (Angela Gilham) writes:
>In article <1992Jul19.030403.1@woods.ulowell.edu> 
>quinnb@woods.ulowell.edu writes:
>> Kay, looks yummy as ever, and Judes makes a great addition to the
>> redhead list..

Oo, you flatterer...  Hmmmm: if Judes can get onto the redhead list with
half a bottle of peroxide and a packet of henna, p'raps I should do the
same (never hurts to maximise one's lustability).

>You ought to see Kay with his new haircut! Come to that, you ought to
>have seen him with added cheese!

You didn't say whether either of the modifications was an improvement
or not, Ang...  but I'm in such an optimistic and happy mood today that
I'll assume that you though so :)

Oh yeah: I guess you'll have worked this out, but I'm back from the week's
outing to France, Germany, Austria, Luxembourg and Belgium...

			mad, bad, and fleabitten
			Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: dbshapco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Brad Shapcott)
Subject: Re: The War Between Us (Long)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:19:38 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.103659.3743@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
>
>I heard this 2nd hand so I don't have the exact quote, but Tom Robinson
>once said something like this:
>
>	When a queer-basher has his foot half way down your gob and
>	is kicking your head in, he isn't worried about the subtle
>	_nuances_ between bisexual and gay. To him you're _bent_.

This is certainly a consideration with respect to solidarity, but again
raises the concern about how much of that solidarity is built from a
resistance to heterosexual assumptions and hate.  In between us, I think
those subtle differences are important and need to be addressed.

Just because bashers aren't anywhere near giving us credit for being wonderful
and unique individuals whose sexuality deserves respect and whose worth as
human beings must be assumed without prejudice, doesn't mean that we should
forget to encourage such behaviour among ourselves.

>Ciaran.

I guess what I'm saying is that one group is easy to identify as an enemy and
their simple-minded motivations of hate and fear easy to identify.

The other group, as much as I think I should understand them and emphathize
with at least part of their experience, sometimes does things that leave
me totally at a loss.

Oh, gosh, lecture time.  Gotta go.


Brad
From: sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: ooops
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:43:15 GMT
Organization: News Addicts

SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk (Arrowsmith) writes:

>Anyway, I'm feeling unusually happy with life these days -- I'm getting
>access to a nice reliable newsreader soonish, I've just moved out of
>my rathole into a reasonable house, I've got money for next year (which

You certainly haven't had a lot of luck with housing of late; and money
helps (a lot!)

>is connected to the new account!)  And, in no small part thanks to last
>weekend in Edinburgh, I've got my emotional problems back to something
>vaguely sane -- I've even unsubscribed from alt.suicide.holiday !!!!

A change is as good as a rest as they say; it wasn't very restful but
different it certainly was!  (whatever you lot out there might think, I
haven't found the events of the past couple of weeks in Edin<mumble> to
be at all par for the course).

>I just want to say what a wonderful bunch of people you all are, 
>here and now, while I'm in the mood, and in case I have to take a
>break from the net over summer (-8

Gee shucks Simes <blush> you do say the nicest things sometimes ...

(Do you hate being called Simes?  I would ...)

Sara
-- 
 >{8-)     Sara Hopkins     (-8}<              _____^__
 Geography Dept.  Edinburgh Uni.  Drummond St. \ OOO/ / The Thing
 Edinburgh,  EH8  9XP,  UK. +44 (0/31) 650 2662 \++/ /   From
 >{8-) sara@geovax.ed.ac.uk (-8}<                \/\/ The Swamp
From: sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Anger
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:24:53 GMT
Organization: News Addicts

cliveg@cix.compulink.co.uk (Clive Grace) writes:

>I'm angry [with two-faced people talking behind his back]

I'm so sorry you're having a hard time of late, Clive; what can I say? 
but hang on in there, don't let the bastards grind you down, and <*hug*>

Sara
-- 
 >{8-)     Sara Hopkins     (-8}<              _____^__
 Geography Dept.  Edinburgh Uni.  Drummond St. \ OOO/ / The Thing
 Edinburgh,  EH8  9XP,  UK. +44 (0/31) 650 2662 \++/ /   From
 >{8-) sara@geovax.ed.ac.uk (-8}<                \/\/ The Swamp
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: dbshapco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Brad Shapcott)
Subject: Re: 'women's' vs 'lesbian'
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 02:05:55 GMT

In article <4876@tuegate.tue.nl> gtoal@stack.urc.tue.nl writes:
>In article <Bs40J7.D08@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> dbshapco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Brad Shapcott) writes:
>>In other words, these people aren't stopping to consider the human emotions
>>involved and the inherent worth of the human they are trying to put on the
>>other end of that transaction.
>
>If anyone wants to see the epitome of this attitude, there's been a thread
>on alt.sex.wizards (I just read it for a friend, honest :-) ) for the
>last few days where all the guys are saying how much they'd love a
>threesome with the traditional hot horny bi babes...  (The thread is
>something like 'There's an interesting thing')

I'm sure if we asked them all to hold their breath, and wait for it to happen,
we could knock off quite a few off them.

>If any of the soc.bi hot horny bi babes feel like a good flame, now
>you know where to go...

Ooooh, you just don't want to create a little heat after all, you want to
burn the place down . . .

>G

So is this group called alt.sex.wizards because if any of these guys actually
got laid, it'd have to be magic?


Brad
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Subject: Re: Coming Out
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 01:20:47 GMT

In <1992Jul22.192709.77946@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>
pw04@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PAUL E. WINTERS) writes:
>I tried this yesterday, but it didn't seem to work, so I'm trying again.
>Hello everybody on this group.

Hi, and welcome. Now lay down on that bench over there and relax. Trust
me on this one; I know what I'm doing. Now pull your t-shirt up to
expose your navel (nipples are optional) while I'll have a quick look
in the drinks cabinet...  Damn! We're out. Except for vodka and that
stuff makes me cough. Bbq-ripple ice cream will have to do...


Ciaran, jet-lagged and giggling at fond memories.
-- 
Ciaran McHale                                                             ----
Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.       \bi/
Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-772204 email: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie \/
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Life does funny things sometimes
Date: 29 Jul 92 23:21:05 GMT
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin

Ailsa,
I'll be more comfortable responding to the bulk of your posting in email
but there is one thing I want to respond to on the net.

In <92210.222506IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>part of the problem is that i'm afriad no one on soc.motss will
>respect me anymore.

I'm sure you were around on soc.motss when I stumbled into it 2 years
ago, as a clueless straight. I quickly clued up and immediately felt
welcome. When I came out as bisexual, first to myself and then on
soc.motss over a year ago I never met any hostility and still felt as
welcome as ever. Can _you_ ever remember anybody on motss giving me the
cold shoulder for identifying as straigt or bi? I certainly can't. I
still feel welcome there and drop in occasionally when I have the time
(which isn't often these days). Nor was I the only straight-or-bi-
identified regular poster on soc.motss who was welcomed as one of the
family. The _only_ time I remember a bi regular on soc.motss asking if
she was welcome or intruding was from Laura Creighton; she got a gentle
flaming for asking such a stupid question.

So I guess what I am trying to say is that whatever other problems you
might face, losing respect on soc.motss is not one of them.


<> [In response to the argument that "if homosexuality is found to have a
<> genetic basis then anti-gay oppression will be reduced"]
<> 	I was born a woman, you can't get much more genetic than that,
<> 	but still there is constant discrimination against women.
<> --- Iseult White (iw@tosser.Rational.COM)

Hugs,
Ciaran.
-- 
Ciaran McHale                                                             ----
Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.       \bi/
Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-772204 email: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie \/
From: jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: 'women's' vs 'lesbian'
Date: 30 Jul 92 02:11:47 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <4876@tuegate.tue.nl> gtoal@stack.urc.tue.nl writes:
+If anyone wants to see the epitome of this attitude, there's been a thread
+on alt.sex.wizards (I just read it for a friend, honest :-) ) for the

Wizards?? What are they good for, conjuring up old moldy flame war
ghosts?
-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: dbshapco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Brad Shapcott)
Subject: Re: The War Between Us (Long)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:50:17 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.140514.16904@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:
>In article <Bs0Ku2.Cv1@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> dbshapco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Brad Shapcott) writes:
>
>Brad,
>
>Why didn't you just say "WHINE!" and save a whole bunch of lines? Poor
>baby, if us queers don't accept you Het marriage priviledge and all,
>you'll just go off and call yourself Bisexual!  Oh gosh, I'm so hurt!
>Get over yourself! If steve's comment pissed you off then flame him
>rather than whining to all of us!
>
>Ry Schwark

My resolution in writing the article is that if I got flamed, I would take
the black eye and move on.

I really wish you would have seen more than that in the article.


Brad
From: fenthe@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Hiya!!
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:25:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: drycas.1992Jul23.182557.1604
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <ceP6Yx600VIGI0po1I@andrew.cmu.edu>, "Sherrianne M. Johnson" <sj1s+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> Ex muffin, watch out, here I am!  :D

 Hi! A belated welcome.. *hugs, snuggles, licks, and welcoming-type stuff*
 
> *boing!!!*

 Eep! someone else who bounces.. Yay!

 -- Fenthe (the elastic mustelid)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,sender
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Subject: Re: Lehigh Valley
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 10:29:49 GMT

In <3559@cs.rit.edu> kdc5072@cs.rit.edu (Kevin D Colagio) writes:

>OK, recently there have been 3 NEW de-muffiners from the Lehigh Valley, PA,
>USA area (HI ALL!!!!!) [...]

Edinburgh and chicago are the current hotspots to find soc.bi posters.
With 3 people posting from Lehigh Valley, I guess that makes it a
luke-warm spot.

Unfortunately, with the lack of local posters and the traditional
Irish weather, Dublin could best be described as a wet-spot.


<> There are a lot of movies I wouldn't be able to understand if the main
<> characters were straight. LETHAL WEAPON, for instance.
<> --- Tim Pierce (pierce@husc4.harvard.edu)

Ciaran.
-- 
Ciaran McHale                                                             ----
Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.       \bi/
Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-772204 email: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie \/
From: julie@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: TV Shows with lesbigay characters: What I can recall.
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:53:51 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club



Off the top of my head, here are the TV shows I can remember with
non-heterosexual characters:

SHOW			CHARACTER
====			=========
Soap 			Billy Crystal played a gay male.
Hooperman		A gay male cop was portrayed as a regular.
L.A. Law		One of the attorneys is Bi, as well as various guests.
Barney Miller		A gay male couple appeared from time to time, plus one
			of the cops (not a regular) was gay.
21-Jump Street		Several guest appearances.
Reasonable Doubts	A lesbian was a guest on one show.
Night Court		Same as above--^
M*A*S*H			Had one show about a gay man.
Taxi			Same as above--^
Dear John		Same as above--^
Sisters 		Same as above--^
Murphy Brown	 	Same as above--^
Married, With Children	One show has Al "turn gay" for an episode.
The Simpsons		Has a supposedly gay character by Harvey Firestein,
			though there is no _real_ indication that he is
			gay.
Law and Order		Has done some shows with gay characters involved.
Northern Exposure	Two episodes about a male couple, one about a
			female couple.
Moonlighting		One show about a gay psychokiller.

Those are all I can think of off the top of my head, but I would suggest 
that people with others send them to me (Julie@Drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu)
and I would be willing to complie the list and post all of them together
once I've got all the ones we can think of.  Note-- I did _not_ place
any judgements in this list.  I'd rather get the factual list together
now and do the editorializing at a future date.

--Julie
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Edinburgh Party Photos
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:10:51 GMT
Organization: Eris's Restaurant

In article <23971@castle.ed.ac.uk> sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing) writes:
>>Kay molesting Justin (both standing though Kay is bent
>Yeah, we know ...

<giggle> Ya bitch!  I was *waiting* for someone to come out with that...

>>over.)
>Oooops, missed this line, sorry ... (much)

much...

>So what *did* Ciaran find in Alex's navel??

Based on my experiences in Alex's navel: blue T-shirt fluff, I should
guess.  It's a yummy navel: one of those nice deep ones that can take
a good length of tongue.  Much better than sticky-out navels.

		mad, bad, and trying to install DUCT 5.007
		Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Subject: Re: 'women's' vs 'lesbian'
Originator: elf@halcyon.com
Reply-To: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Organization: Pendor, UnLtd.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:40:47 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.174401.6465@HQ.Ileaf.COM>
     mhk@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Mark Kaepplein x1517) writes:

>0. More likely to fulfill my life-long fantasy of a three-some.
>   Seriously, I think that is probably the first thing people
>   assume when a guy wants a bi woman. Me, I don't care.

   Two things came to mind when I read this... the first is, 'why?'
Maybe it's my natural out-of-scene reaction to a threesome, 'why
bother?'  I had the unexpected luck of being in a threesome recently,
and again came away with the vaguely uneasy feeling that I didn't have
as much fun as I would have if I'd had my male partner alone...

   Which, of course, leads to the second part of my conversation, and
that is... what makes you assume that you can't fulfill this fantasy
with another _man_ and a straight woman?  (Assume, of course, that
'Mark' tags you as male...)

      Elf !!!
-- 
Elf Sternberg    __   |     I have looked into the abyss, and the abyss
elf@halcyon.com  \/   | has looked into me.  Neither liked what we saw.
elf@polari.online.com |                              - Brother Theodore
From: chris@unicorn.resun.com (Chris Von Hendy)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: 'women's' vs 'lesbian'
Date: 30 Jul 92 04:25:50 GMT
Reply-To: chris@unicorn.resun.com
Organization: Metalogic, S.a r.l.
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v3


In article <17265@acorn.co.uk> (soc.bi), osmith@acorn.co.uk (Owen Smith) writes:
> I have to admit to being guilty of this, to a degree. The thought that a
> woman might be bi or lesbian makes her more attractive to me. I'm not aware
> of actually having harmed anyone by this, and although it's obviously
> extremely unfair to exclusive lesbians, if I do nothing about it and tell
> no-one am I really doing any harm? Besides, if that's what makes me tick,
> what am I supposed to do about it?

Um, Owen, do you remember how the pushy bi male made you feel?  This is
the same way bi or lesbian women feel when they encounter men who act
this way.  

Granted no harm is done as long as you keep your fantasies to yourself
and don't give any indication of your attraction, but far to many men
do not display that courtesy to these women.  Specifically it is the
men who think, all that is needed to cure a woman of her attraction to
other women is the right male, that cause the problem.  As a woman who
has found the right male I can testify that it has not reduced my
interest in other women one bit. ;-)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Von Hendy            "If we shadows have offended,
Escondido, California       Think but this, and all is mended,
ncr-sd!blkhole!chris  or    That you have but slumbered here,
chris@unicorn.resun.com     While these visions did appear." Puck
From: bz729@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul W. Gould)
Subject: Re: Look who's back - (was Re: Coming Out)
Reply-To: bz729@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul W. Gould)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 16:37:37 GMT


In a previous article, SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk (Arrowsmith) says:

>In article <24289@castle.ed.ac.uk> sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing) writes:
>>J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley) writes:
>>
>>>It would have been worth it. Wonder what I would look like with short hair?
>>
>>Well I need no more encouragement than that.  Those wishing to see Jon's
>>new No. 1 (Prisoner pun intended) should attend the Next Party.  Didn't
>>I hear someone in Cambridge offering?
>>
>Cambridge would be nice -- a lot easier to get to, but I don't think 
>our household could cope with staging the event itself.  Jon with
>short hair would require such an adjustment of mental image that I
>can only say: don't do it....
>
I think I agree: I'm just getting used to the ponytail. Slightly shorter
hair perhaps, but certainly not what Sara has in mind :-)

Paul

-- 
Paul Gould                            ____              Dept of Biochemistry
sbit37@uk.ac.liv.uxb (JANET)          \bi/              University of Liverpool
sbit37@uxb.liv.ac.uk (Internet)        \/               PO Box 147, Liverpool
+44 (0)51-794 4330   (Phone)                            L69 3BX  UK
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: orc@vpnet.chi.il.us (david parsons)
Subject: Re: Invisibility
Organization: Department of Atomic Text Units
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 23:16:34 GMT

In article <5382@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> dente@els.ee.man.ac.uk (Colin Dente) flirts:
|Currently behind Mike and Muffy.  Failing that, in Norwich.  Can I tempt you
|there with (say) pictures of Deltic 9000 "Royal Scots Grey"?

   My Corporate Masters would *kill* me if I did that, you know ("No, really,
I *meant* two, not one, month off") and coming over for the weekend would
leave me a dead man.

                __
  david parsons \/ "25 hours and 4000 (sigh...) miles from Glasgow"
From: gtoal@gem.stack.urc.tue.nl (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: The War Between Us (Long)
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:03:15 GMT
Reply-To: gtoal@stack.urc.tue.nl
Organization: MCGV Stack, Eindhoven University of Technology, the Netherlands

In article <1992Jul28.010932.946@midway.uchicago.edu> h431@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
:In article <1992Jul27.004004.19031@news.acns.nwu.edu> Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde) writes:
:>
:>We may need to do more to provide ways for bisexuals to come out as bi
:>directly, without being restricted by models of coming-out that were
:>developed with gay men or lesbians in mind.
:>
:YES!

My sentiments exactly.  And when it's no big thing to say you're bi,
and a lot more of us speak up who *aren't* at the high end of the Kinsey
scale, I think we'll find that we're not a minority inside a minority,
but the largest group of non-straights around...

G
From: julie@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Objectification Based on Sexual Orientation
Date: 29 Jul 92 18:23:45 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

> ...The thought that a
> woman might be bi or lesbian makes her more attractive to me. I'm not aware
> of actually having harmed anyone by this, and although it's obviously
> extremely unfair to exclusive lesbians, if I do nothing about it and tell
> no-one am I really doing any harm? Besides, if that's what makes me tick,
> what am I supposed to do about it?
> 
> Owen.

There are a lot of subliminal things which go on in our mind, Owen,
and they affect our actions in ways that are not necessarily clear at
all.  My basic reaction to this is that I've heard men say the same
things about rape fantasies, which I feel are really destructive
whether or not they are acted out in any matter.  I guess I'm glad you
said what you did and I'd rather you express this stuff than pretend
it's not there but that doesn't mean I think it's a _good_ thing for
you to think this way.  It objectifies people in manners which
frighten me and I think maybe you should investigate _why_ you have
these feelings and explore them.

--Julie


                      
--------------------------------------------------------------------            
 "Naturally the common people don't want war... but after all it is             
the leaders of a country who determine policy, and it is always a               
simple matter to drag the people along...  All you have to do is tell           
them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of            
patriotism and exposing the country to danger."                                 
                                                                                
                          -- Hermann Goering, 1936