HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Brian.Bridal@f49.n134.z1.fidonet.org (Brian Bridal)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Re: arbitrary techniques?
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 16:56:58 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:134/49 - The Student Exchang, Calgary Alta

hello brian,
 My question to you is about the reference to the 'never-ending sequence of arbitrary techniques to memorize' statement. The question is, 
"what do you think math is for?"
 
Of course, this is not only to Mr. Harvey but to anyone. My reason for asking this is because people's viewpoints about math and math
curriculi depend on their answer to the above question.
 
 I believe that math skills go well beyond the 'why do we need to know this...we'll never use it in REAL life' statements often heard.
 
 ???
 
 
brian


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Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
From: Dick.Seitz@f17.n3400.z1.fidonet.org (Dick Seitz)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Mathematics Software for High School
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 92 12:53:22 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3400/17 - MET NET BBS, Helena MT

I am looking for suggestions for MS-Dos software for the mathematics classroom.  We have a classroom with 386 and 486 machines and will be using MathCad, MS Excell, Cabri Geometry, and have the public domain programs from the Exeter Academy.
What would you suggest for a mathematics classroom?  Do you have a good statistics suggestion? A probability suggestion?  What do you use that runs under Windows?
                               Thanks for the ideas ... Dick

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Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
From: scamp7@uva386.schools.virginia.edu (SCAMP Demo Account)
Subject: Re: Memorizing Multiplication Tables
Organization: Virginia's Public Education Network (Charlottesville)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 23:10:30 GMT

Dear David,
     Are you really teaching the concept of multiplication or
another algorithm for repeated addition?  We, Diana and Susan,
feel that the students need to fully understand the concept of
all three types of multiplication problems before they are
given tricks of the trade.  But we do like your short cuts and
they will be very useful when the concept is comprehended.
Thanks for the fun stuff.
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
From: Carol.Hooper@f64.n381.z1.fidonet.org (Carol Hooper)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: re: Arbitrary Techniques?
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 11:50:46 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:381/64 - Academy K12 Net, El Paso TX

Brian, if you find the problems for the cycle, you'll note that some 
can be applied to occupations such as catering, etc.  (MathMagic cycle 
that is).  Maybe it can help....I told my students working on the 
problem to pretend that they were caterers and Arnold Swarzenegger 
called to have them cater his party with the guidelines for the 
problem grade level 7/8.  It was very interesting and they loved it!


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Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
From: scamp8@uva386.schools.virginia.edu (SCAMP Demo Account)
Subject: Re: Memorizing Multiplication Tables
Organization: Virginia's Public Education Network (Charlottesville)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 15:14:20 GMT

By reading the articles on multiplication I really learned that
memorization of the facts is not all that important. I always
thought that that was the best way because that was how I
learned. 

This summer I tried to tutor my 10 year old brother in
multiplication. One thing that I noticed is that he didn't
realize that 6x7 is the same as 7x6 and when I clued him in on
this fact he really got excited. Sometimes we tend to take
things like that for granted and just assume that a child will
see the likeness. Just yesterday I learned the finger tricks
for multiplication and am very excited about sharing them with
my brother. Memorizing the facts is very frustrating for him
and I think using his fingers will make the facts more fun to
do. I am a strong believer in making learning as much fun as
possible.

                                        Sincerely,
                                          Megan
From: Dave.Hunter@p0.f23.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Hunter)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: math enrichment at elementaray level
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 07:12:16 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/23.0 - HI TECH TOOLS / Lib, Portland OR

I'm teaching math at the middle level and have had occasion to meet 
a 5th grader from one of our feeder schools who, in the short 
conversation I had with him appears to have a very good conceptual 
and practical grasp of most of elementary algebra and many geometric 
concepts.  His math skills and interests are beyond most of his teachers 
and will no doubt surpass mine before too many years pass.
 
I'd welcome any ideas on how to help this guy explore mathematics. 
I've got to say that its a new experience for me to listen to a person 
who looks and acts like a normal fifth grader in other respects talk 
about math with understanding and excitment that surpasses many high 
school kids I've worked with.
 
I'm after two kinds of ideas:  1)  What can his present teachers do 
(other than hand him a high school text and say "go for it") to expand 

his math exposure.  2)  Any ideas on what I can be lining up for him 
next year.
 
Also, if you are working with a kid of similar abilities, it would 
be great for us to get them in touch via this network.  One of the 
be needs he expressed to me was the feeling that he had no one to 
talk to about the things that interested him!!
 
Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks,
 
D. Hunter 



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Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
From: sam3e@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Sheryl Anne Maxwell)
Subject: Re: Memorizing Multiplication Tables
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:21:26 GMT

It appears that we have lots of math teachers who are capable
and willing to make learning multiplication tables not only
interesting and exciting, but enjoyable too!  Congratulations!
However, there is danger in knowing just when and how to
introduce the "tricks" which will remembered by many.  Perhaps
a more interesting way would be to design a class in which the
students discover and demonstrate various patterns that they
have noticed during the time they have been working with these
multiplication "facts."  Would this not only be more in line
with the NCTM Standards, as well as helping the student to
construct their own methods.  Of course they would have to
defend their conjecture--perhaps even have a name (they choose)
to be assigned to their discovery!  What is the message that we
are giving the students in this class then?

Try it--you'll enjoy the time not being the sage on the
stage--but instead a guide on the side!

Sheryl Maxwell
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
From: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Re: Memorizing Multiplication Tables
Date: 27 Sep 92 19:40:01 GMT
Reply-To: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

In article <1a3ib6INNsdh@agate.berkeley.edu> bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey) writes:
>
>It's not just the multiplication table.  ...
>                                                  School "math"
>is just a never-ending sequence of arbitrary techniques to memorize.
>It's very rare that any of those techniques actually make sense to
>anyone involved, teacher or student.

So is English, French, History, Anatomy, Computer Science, Biology, 
Physics, Cooking, Carpentry, ... 

The techniques make sense only because they work.  

If they work for you, use them, if not, invent your own.  (You would not 
believe how I do algebra, since I use a method I invented when I taught 
it to myself in 5th grade.  It is consistent with the "rules" but does 
not in any way actually resemble the rules.)  

--
J. A. Carr                                    |  "The New Frontier of which I  
jac@gw.scri.fsu.edu                           |  speak is not a set of promises
Florida State University  B-186               |  -- it is a set of challenges."
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute |   John F. Kennedy (15 July 60)
From: Dan.Arnold@f17.n3400.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Arnold)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: ti-81 users
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 10:15:04 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3400/17 - MET NET BBS, Helena MT

Attention all TI-81 users, if you have any interesting programs for the TI-81 please send a message on METNET so I can contact you. I am a freshman at Valier High School. Thank you!


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From: Les.Moskowitz@f1131.n261.z1.fidonet.org (Les Moskowitz)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Re: Three points about times tables (was Re: MOTIVATION, LACK OF . . .)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 08:59:06 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:261/1131 - Pooh's Corner, Fells Point MD

> Most people think that mathematicians are sort of like actuaries;
> they sit around all day adding up columns of numbers.  If a kid
> learns to think that, how is s/he ever going to get interested in
> joining the profession?
 
What profession are you talking about?   You may have some idea about
mathematicians, but you obviously know nothing about actuaries
if you think they spend their time adding up columns of numbers.
 
And if you're an educator, I certainly hope you're not conveying that
impression to your students.
 
                               Les Moskowitz
                               Fellow, Society of Actuaries


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From: cb919@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike Bolduan)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Re: LOGS AND CALCULATORS
Date: 1 Oct 1992 04:56:19 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


To calculate the natural log of 5 you could do the following:
1) Draw a careful graph of f(x)=1/x on millimeter squared
graph paper.
2) Draw vertical lines through x=1 and x=5
3) Very carefully count the squares in the region bounded
by the graph, the x-axis and the two vertical lines. 
4) Using the appropriate scale factor, convert the number
of squares to the area of the region in square units.
5) Voila! the natural log of 5!!!

Who says we need calculators! Let's really get back
to BASICS!

P.S. -- I think I just bit my tongue in my cheek....

But seriously, you might consider WHY the above is
perfectly "legit" and what kids would learn from
doing it.

mike bolduan
bolduan@catlin    on bitnet
bolduan@catseq.catlin.edu     on internet
-- 
mike bolduan
bolduan@catlin
From: Mary.Darling@f540.n226.z1.fidonet.org (Mary Darling)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: REVISING GEOMETRY CURRICU
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 20:05:00 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:226/540 - The Tele-Forum Netw, Columbus OH

-> On 09-13-92 Sheila King wrote to Ed Kwasniewski...
->
-> SK> Hmm, interesting how the students get so much time to learn proof
->
-> SK> really like it, and will copy some of this post of yours to distr
-> SK> at our meeting. But we DO use what you call "Guided Proofs" in ou
-> SK> current geometry curriclumn. However, our students are expected t
-> SK> learn proofs a lot more quickly.
->
-> The time is simply there because we don't offer a single course in
-> geometry.  I have (many years ago) taught a more traditional geometry
-> course and prefer our present system.  If your revision committee wou
-> like to see some of our curricula (not that it's that great ... there
-> ARE major problems with it :) give a yell and I'll see what I can do
-> about sending some topic outlines etc. your way.
->
-> Cheers ... Ed
->
I would certainly be interested in such an outline.  I just talked with
a representative from our State Dept. of Education today and she assures
me that your method of integration is going to be given the "blessing"
by the state superintendent.
  TNet 2.1U  ORIGIN-New Albany H/S Eagle's Echo BBS(New Albany, Ohio)



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From: Mary.Darling@f540.n226.z1.fidonet.org (Mary Darling)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Elections Connections
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 09:49:00 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:226/540 - The Tele-Forum Netw, Columbus OH

We (the entire high school staff) are currently planning to implement an
interdisciplinary unit on elections.  I would be extremely grateful to
anyone that has any ideas or materials or references that we might use.
I am particularly interested in Algebra I and Algebra II type "stuff"
but I welcome ANY and ALL suggestions.

I have the current copy of the Mathematics Teacher which shows some
electoral college and apportionment things.  I also have the COMAP unit
on elections.  We are also planning to actually run an election and
conduct some polls to work in the statistical topics.  I'm finding the
materials a little sparse in upper level content areas.

If anyone out there has had any experience with interdisciplinary units,
I'd love to hear from you - both good and bad.  There is much talk in
our district about this theme teaching method.  I feel that the
mathematics dept. will have to rethink our entire structure in order to
"fit in" and still maintain our integrity.
  TNet 2.1U  ORIGIN-New Albany H/S Eagle's Echo BBS(New Albany, Ohio)



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From: Clovis.Lacerda@f0.n80.z4.fidonet.org (Clovis Lacerda)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Math Curiculum change
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 92 20:08:00 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 4:80/0 - Rede Brazil, Brazil

Hello folks,

Let me introduce myself first. I teach Math at the American School of Recife, and, thanks to Janet Murray and Randy Bush, we are echoing these wonderful conferences. I guess we are the only one in Brazil, or do know of someone else? I am 26, majored in Electronic Engineering.

Well, our Schools is a member of SACS (Southern Association of Colleges and Schools) and they visited us this year for crediting renewal. I started teaching at EAR a year ago, and I must tell you that my background is completely brazilian. I noticed at once the great problem that was causing to our students the Math curriculum. Students would do fairly good in Algebra I, but due to old difficulties, the curriculum was not being fully covered. But after Algebra I, they take Geometry, which makes them have a








 big gap of one year until they start taking algebra again, now, Algebra II.  When I started, I had two Algebra II classes, and I must tell you, they drove me crazy! The weaknesses were great, they had forgotten almost everything, and the curriculum required that they had covered Algebra I completely..... I strongly suggested that this gap could never exist, and also that earlier Math classes should be stronger, so they could do a better Algebra I course. Geometry should be either given before Algebra I or








 after Algebra II. But the best choice I think would be giving Algebra I and Geometry at the same time, in a 2-year course (Algebra I + Geometry). Nothing was decided, because the curriculum could not be changed and become different than that in the USA. But this was one of our suggestions of improving, given to SACS. To my pleasure, SACS' reports said that we were in the right track, and the curriculum should be changed to overcome the problems we have been detecting.

I kindly ask you:

What is your oppinion?

What have you been doing about this?

Any suggestions?

Thanks  and nive to meet you.

Clovis Lacerda
EAR, Recife - Brazil


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From: Jon.Church@f455.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Jon Church)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: LOGS AND CALCULATORS
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 17:57:27 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:109/455 - Odysseus Board, Silver Spring MD

How do you calculate the natural log by hand?  Or the log to
base 10 if that is easier.  Would this be the method that a 
calculator would use?  How do calculators figure trig functions?
Do they use series approximations?
  
Thanks
   
   
Jon Church

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From: Ed.Kwasniewski@f240.n353.z1.fidonet.org (Ed Kwasniewski)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: REVISING GEOMETRY CURRICU
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 17:50:00 PST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:353/240 - The Polish Connecti, Westbank BC

On 09-18-92 Sheila King wrote to Ed Kwasniewski... 
 
SK> -> If your revision committee would like to see some of our curricula

SK> -> (not that it's that great ... there ARE major problems with it :) 
SK> -> give a yell and I'll see what I can do about sending some topic 
SK> -> outlines etc. your way. 
SK> 
SK> We would appreciate it. You can mail it to me at: 
SK> 
SK> Mater Dei High School 
SK> 1202 W. Edinger Ave. 
SK> Santa Ana, Ca 92707 
 
Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you Sheila but I just got 
back from a conference and have just gotten around to going through 
about a weeks backlog of mail :(  I'll have some info out to you 
tomorrow morning. 
 
... OFFLINE 1.41 * C>123..............Very good... can you say "Four"? 


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From: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Re: Memorizing Multiplication Tables
Date: 27 Sep 92 19:34:07 GMT
Reply-To: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

In article <1992Sep27.033427.24710@uva386.schools.virginia.edu> dpicard@uva386.schools.virginia.edu (David Picard) writes:
>
>As I see it, there are really 55 multiplication facts. Teaching

This is, by the way, a small number of facts.  Comparing this number 
to the number of anatomical facts your young, prospective veterinarian 
will have to learn is sobering.  And there is more of a pattern to 
those tables than the names of body parts. 

>kids early on that 6x7 is the same as 7x6 eliminates the need
>to memorize the fact twice. Many kids never even think of
>reversing the two integers if they are stuck. They think it is
>against the rules.

Good point.  One thing that drives me nuts judging science fairs is 
when kids think it is "against the rules" to repeat an experiment 
with a slightly different design after noticing a difficulty with 
the design proposed in the original plan.  

>These can be taught by teaching kids the "one-up or one-down"
>strategy. If they can't recall a multiplication fact, they
>should see if they can recall a fact which uses one of the
>multiplicands ... and another number which is one higher or
>one lower than the other. 

Excellent.  Its funny, but I never needed this as a kid since I knew 
the tables *cold* back then.  As an adult who uses computers and 
calculators way too much, I now fall back on this trick for some 
combinations that don't have the right confidence level attached 
to them in my memory recall system.  This is probably a good way 
to bootstrap your way into the tables from the squares and the 5's 
and 2's and any others that come easily.

Funny that you have trouble with 6x8; it was one of my "favorites" 
because of the rhyme to it.  Everyone is different. 

--
J. A. Carr                                    |  "The New Frontier of which I  
jac@gw.scri.fsu.edu                           |  speak is not a set of promises
Florida State University  B-186               |  -- it is a set of challenges."
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute |   John F. Kennedy (15 July 60)
From: bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Re: Memorizing Multiplication Tables
Date: 27 Sep 1992 05:54:46 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: anarres.cs.berkeley.edu

dpicard@uva386.schools.virginia.edu (David Picard) writes:
>As I see it, there are really 55 multiplication facts. [...]
>In my opinion, these 15 are the real challenge. They are:
>3x3 4x3 6x3 7x3 8x3 4x4 6x4 7x4 8x4 6x6 7x6 8x6 7x7 8x7 and 8x8.
> [...]

It's not just the multiplication table.  When you get that done, you
have to memorize the crazy algorithm for multi-digit multiplication,
with carrying and shifting and adding partial products.  School "math"
is just a never-ending sequence of arbitrary techniques to memorize.
It's very rare that any of those techniques actually make sense to
anyone involved, teacher or student.
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
From: scamp6@uva386.schools.virginia.edu (SCAMP Demo Account)
Subject: Re: Mathematics Software for High School
Organization: Virginia's Public Education Network (Charlottesville)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 16:22:45 GMT

I am also looking for software to be used in high school and
college statistic courses. I was hoping someone would know of
some program that could do what the TI-81 calculator can do.
The zoom function has been invaluable.  please send any ideas to

scamp6@uva386.schools.virginia.edu
From: bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.math
Subject: Re: math enrichment at elementaray level
Date: 27 Sep 1992 22:08:11 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: anarres.cs.berkeley.edu

Dave.Hunter@p0.f23.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Hunter) writes:
>I'm teaching math at the middle level and have had occasion to meet 
>a 5th grader from one of our feeder schools who, in the short 
>conversation I had with him appears to have a very good conceptual 
>and practical grasp of most of elementary algebra and many geometric 
>concepts.  His math skills and interests are beyond most of his teachers 
>and will no doubt surpass mine before too many years pass.

Congratulations!  Sounds like a lot of fun.

One suggestion I have is to get the kid interested in computer programming.
I am particularly a fan of Logo; what you have to do is find the Logo books
that aren't written for third graders.  (MIT Press publishes several,
including my own -- advt.)  For your own reading, to help make the
connection with mathematics, you might look for the recently-published
_Learning Mathematics and Logo_ (Hoyles and Noss, editors), a collection
of papers by researchers in this area.

You dismiss the idea of just handing the kid an advanced textbook, but
that's exactly what my 7th grade math teacher did with me when I got
bored with his algebra class.  The trick is that he didn't just give me
the books for courses coming later in the high school curriculum; he
gave me offbeat things about set theory, logic, calculus, etc.  One of
the best was _What Is Mathematics_ by Courant and Robbins.  (Your fifth
grader may not be ready for that one yet; I can't judge from your message.)
Not to neglect the obvious, has he read _Mathematics, a Human Endeavor_?

Finally, I offer my favorite math problem:  The Simplex lock is a combination
lock with five pushbuttons.  (You often see them on doors in airports.)  The
unique thing about this lock is that you can push more than one button at a
time, so a possible combination is "3, then 1 and 5 at the same time, then 2."
On the other hand, each button may only be used once, so the combination
"3, then 1 and 5 together, then 1" is NOT allowed.  How many possible
combinations are there?