From: tguez@jade.tufts.edu (Name)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.misc
Subject: Re: Windows == OS
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:19:09 GMT
	<1992Aug31.032922.15638@cco.caltech.edu>
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA

>	   Well, I don't think either one of us is trying to say that 
>   Windows IS definitively an OS.  My opinion is that other than 
>   relying on DOS for file system management, Windows is an OS.
You don't understand at all the arguments.  If you did, you would of
already understood that they all lead to the conclusion that windows
is an extension of DOS, in a sense, retrofitting dos.

>	   Here are some things I want you to know about my worldview
>   of an OS:
Ok, I am listing.

>   1. Whether an OS is single-tasking, cooperatively multitasking, or
>   preemptively multitasking does not determine whether or not it is,
>   in fact, an OS.
You don't understand the essense of the arguments, and therefore you
take subtle arguments for ignorant onces.  I actually took the time to
explain to you two of them (malloc thing, and carshing OS thing).

>   2. Whether or not an OS _forces_ applications to make API calls to
>   request a hardware service is not material, either.  i.e., An OS
>   need not virtualize.
Same as above

>	   2a. I would prefer that an OS require the API calls.  As an
>   example, because I have to use a handle to a commport (UART) under
>   Windows, my program will be portable to Windows running on a non-PC.
>   If Windows "virtualized" the fact that most PCs have a UART at 0x2F8,
>   they would have to stick to that when they move to other platforms,
>   and that would merely be an exercise is silliness.
same as above

>   3. There are some OSes you can quit and still get a running 
>   system.  DesqView and Windows are two.  Windows is more of an
You are begging the question, if you want an example take VM, which I
practically feed you the counter argument, and you missed it anyway.

>   OS than DV, in my opinion, but each is also more than an application,
>   environment, or shell.
>	   Another example is a program like Soft-PC, which 
>   provides a cross-platform OS on many machines.
I will have to admit, never heard of Soft-PC, and hence I cannot comment.


>	   Furthermore, you were complaining about all the tame you wasted
>   replying to my oh-so-stupid posts.  Well, sorry.  For the record,
>   wish this hadn't gotten so personal.  We probably should have
>   argued religion or something.  Anyway, you're right, I should have
>   spent my time writing some not-quite-real-applications to run
>   under my favorite not-quite-a-real-OS.

>	   So, I will maintain the following regarding Windows:
Now you are acting like a little kid after his mother explains to him
his mistakes, and he does not want to listen (closes his eyes, and
puts his fingers in his ears).

>   Windows == (0.90)*OS
>   Windows != Shell
>   Progman == Shell
>   Fileman == Shell
>   Taskman == Shell
>   Windows == Environment++
>
>   :)  <-- I am sort of kidding with my list above, sort of a tongue-in-
>   cheeck representation of my feelings.


>	   Finally, I was making a joke when I said that maybe we should
>   duel.  I didn't think the smiley would be neccessary.  My point
It did not sound like that to me.

>   was, we seem to have gotten sort of abstract, ugly, and long-winded 
                                        ^^^^^^^^(1)      (2)^^^^^^^^^^^
(1)  And you thought operating system theory was not abstract?  
(2)  If you were more knowledable about operarting system concepts, I
could of explained to you why windows is not an operating system in
a few paragraphs.  Since you were rusty, I had to explain to you
fundamental concepts which made the discussion long-winded.  For
instance, the meaning of the question,"What operating system, when it
crashes, leaves the computer operational?" would of been instantly
clear to you.  Look at the post explaining it to see how many lines it
takes to explain it's meaning with the pre-assumtion that the reader
has no knoweldge of operating system theory.
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.misc