HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 07:22:28 EST
From: <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
Subject: Jim Crow, history lesson for Mr. Collins and others
Distribution: usa
 <1992Dec4.170018.27313@fid.morgan.com>
 <1992Dec4.232818.10917@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>
 <1992Dec8.230031.28771@fid.morgan.com> <77bv02Y=2eZL01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>
 <1992Dec12.145948.923@blkbox> <92349.073430KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
 <1992Dec14.194010.11217@blkbox>

Chad Collins seems to think that Jim Crow is only about election laws.  Yes,
Jim had election laws such as literacy tests and grandfather clauses.  As far
as literacy tests, yes, all people had to take them, but the words for Blacks
and whites were totally different.  In other words, the tests weren't like the
SAT where everyone is given similar tests.  Grandfather clauses were that you
couldn't vote unless your grandfather was able to vote.  How many Blacks had
grandfather's who voted during Jim Crow?  Not many!
  but Jim was about more then that. Jim was about where you could eat, sleep,
shop, ride the bus, marry, walk, drink, go to the bathroom...  None of these
laws were in effect for ANY other group then Blacks.  How is that equal?
  I think that it is a horrible shame and an indictment on our educational
system that Jim Crow has to be explained to a college student in the 1990's.
A college student who thinks that Jim Crow was not about Blacks but about
poor people and illiterate people. SUre there are examples of white people
being hurt by literacy tests and grandfather clauses, but they were an
extreme rarity (like finding a white tiger).  Jim Crow was around less
then 30 years ago and people are forgetting him already.  How can people
understand the present without understanding the recent past?
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: jimbo@leland.Stanford.EDU (Godfather of Soul)
Subject: Re: Affirmative action is dead
Keywords: quotas
Organization: NewsRUs
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 02:55:37 GMT

In article <BzKC55.6JK@agora.rain.com> robart@agora.rain.com (Joe Bob) writes:
>
>  The Clinton administration should provide a test of this type of policy,
>as he seems intent on getting a quota cabinet.  He says it should look
>like America, but evidently he means this only in a superficial way.
>There will apparently be no low-income people or non-college graduates
>included, for example.

Yeah, that's just what we need.  I hope it DOESN'T look like America
because it appears that most Americans want everything but don't
want to actually work for anything.

A Clinton quote after the "economic summit" was "We don't have all the
answers and we probably never will".  I'm glad 43% of the American
electorate voted for someone who admits he doesn't have the answers.
I'm not sure he evens knows the question.  What utter incompetence.

James

-- 
James W. Brown		-  I dream of the day when conservatives learn   	-
			-  the difference between a sin and a crime and  	-
			-  liberals learn the difference between a       	-
			-  virtue and a requirement.      --William A. Niskanen	-
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:42:03 GMT

>>> And can you name this company or companies which won't hire anyone because
>>> they're Blak? I certainly wouldn't want to have dealings with them.

>1.  Union seniority rules

Could you explain how giving a Blak worker with 20 years service
preferences over a Caucasian worker with 5 years serivce benefits the
Caucasian worker?

>2.  Blacks are more likely to work in the hardest hit sector - low
>skill, low wage work.

So some Blaks engage in low skill, low wage work and some Caucasians
engage in low skill, low wage work. Given that far more Caucasians live
in poverty, how does adversity for the poor benefit them?

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5365 soc.culture.african.american:13013 misc.education:5373
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
Subject: Re: Institutional racism 
From: ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu
Date: 17 Dec 92 10:25:51 MST
 <1992Dec15.014213.20399@samba.oit.unc.edu> <1992Dec15.090227.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> <1992Dec17.011310.16154@samba.oit.unc.edu>
Distribution: usa,local
Nntp-Posting-User: ohall

In article <1992Dec17.011310.16154@samba.oit.unc.edu>, Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks) writes:
>>>>> Then could you be the one to point out the mythical program which is
>>>>> restricted to Caucasians and denied to Blaks?
>   
>>>>  The mythical program is whites get hired and blacks don't.
>  
>>> And can you name this company or companies which won't hire anyone because
>>> they're Blak? I certainly wouldn't want to have dealings with them.
>  
>>  I was speaking in general.
> 
> So there are no such companies. This is just part of the mythology promoted
> by pro-racists to support their bigotry.
> 
  You're loosing me dude.  Didn't you state "Mythical Program" first not 
  "Mythical Company"?  See above>>>>>
  There are companies that are reluctant to hire blacks and practice
  discrimination.  You would have to be a fool from hell to believe this type
  of hiring practice doesn't exist in America today.  If you had your way I
  would be a sitting duck believing that everything is fine in the U.S.A. 
  However, we can't always get our way.
  In addition, generally speaking, like I stated earlier, the mythical program
  is whites get hired more often than blacks with the same or greater
  qualifications.  And that's a FACTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!
> --
>    The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
>      North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
>         Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
>            internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:27:37 GMT

>Would you PLEASE explain why you insist on spelling "black" as "blak"?

I don't.


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: buchignani@hg.uleth.ca
Subject: attn: S. Dixon (personal)
Reply-To: buchignani@hg.uleth.ca
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:21:16 GMT

Just received your e-mail and posted a long reply to shd1221@andy.bgsu.edu.
However, the postmaster there bounced it back, so I am afraid
not everything is yet straightened out on your side.

    Norm Buchignani/University of Lethbridge/BUCHIGNANI@HG.ULETH.CA
"If we have been accustomed to deplore the spectacle...of a workman occupied
during his whole life in nothing else but the making of knife-handles or pins'
heads, we may find something quite as lamentable in the intellectual class, in
the exclusive employment of a human brain in resolving some equations, or in
classifying insects. [This] occasions a miserable indifference about the
general course of human affairs, as long as there are equations to solve and
pins to manufacture."                                      Auguste Comte
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Date: 14 Dec 92 00:42:37 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: usa

In article agoyo1@athena.mit.edu (Acee Agoyo) writes:
| Since when did the Jewish Holocaust take place in the Southern US?  How many
| Cambodian refugee camps were located in America?  I think such comparisons
| serve only as such; comparisons.  Nothing can be inferred or "proven" from
| such comparisons.  

Yes, we can infer the difference between people who moan about
injustice and people who make thier lives work regardless of
injustice, past or present.

| Once your country
| treats you as they claim you are, you feel less traumatized.  

Feeling traumatized is a choice.

| Let's face it, a teacher telling a child he will fail 
| (for no reason) is not comforting when 
| other people excel in the same school.

Lets face it, a child told to do whatever it takes to succeed
in school will do better than a child told it isn't their
fault, the world is against them.

-- 
-------------------------
My comments are my own.  They are independent and unrelated to the
views of my company , relatives or elected representatives.

Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5393 soc.culture.african.american:13085 misc.education:5422
From: collins@blkbox (Chad R. Collins)
Subject: Other Minorities....
Organization: The Black Box, PO Box 591822 Houston, TX 77259-1822 
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:26:36 GMT
Summary: I am curious how other minorities feel about racism...
Keywords: discrimination

	I have been following a couple of threads in this newsgroup for a
couple of weeks, and I have noticed that the vast majority of the
text is about black vs. white.... I am kinda curious- how do the other
minorities in this country feel about racism in america? Specifically, do
you think that racism (from all groups and from whites in particular)
affects your quality of life and/or chance to succeed economically? To
what extent? There has been alot of arguements including things such as
comparing the holocaust to slavery (as a source of trauma) and the
affect of racial discrimination on other groups, but it always seems to be
a white or a black that answers them.... (well, it IS kinda hard to tell
what race a person is on the net... :)

Chad R. Collins
collins@blkbox.com

Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: barnhart@ddsw1.mcs.com (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: Re: Pardon me, whilst I get raw (was: "Reflections [...]")
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 03:30:23 GMT
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.

isbell@ai.mit.edu (Charles L Isbell) wrote:
:
:*I* know I'm qualified and not only that, I'm more qualified that
:many others folks who are/were here.  I have yet to meet the USENET
:participant smarter than me and as time goes on, I grow to doubt s/he
:exists.  Others have not always been aware of my talents, but that
:says something about them, not me.

If God hears you saying this, she's going to get an account.
:
:On Carter in particular, I recognize that it is Stephen Carter's
:inalienable right to feel stigmatized.  If he wishes to wallow in it
:then that is also his right; however, he should not be surprised if
:his feelings do not apply to me and he should not allow his feelings
:to prevent him from moving forward.  My reading of the man is such
:that I do not think he has held himself back.  In fact, I wouldn't
:even do him the disservice of comparing him to Shelby Steele, who
:couldn't construct a cogent argument if ideas were made of lego blocks
:or Thomas Sowell, who has to have written the windiest and most
:ridiculous article I've ever seen in _Forbes_.

Considering _Forbes,_ that's quite an achievement.
:
:Oh, and finally, I wouldn't label my view of the assortment of whiners
:and envious folk who cycle thru scaa and tell us how unqualified, lazy
:and stupid we are as "resentment."  
:
:No, I'd label my feelings as "contempt."
:

Not to mention justified, apropos, etc.  "That's not black supremacy,
that's black intelligence!"


Aaron
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5397 soc.culture.african.american:13101 misc.education:5433
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
Subject: Re: Institutional racism 
From: ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu
Date: 18 Dec 92 17:08:45 MST
Distribution: usa,local
Nntp-Posting-User: ohall

In article <1992Dec18.042052.1780@blkbox>, collins@blkbox (Chad R. Collins) writes:
> ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
> 
>>  Many of you white people really blow my mind. 
>>  So what is it now that YOU PEOPLE are trying to say? 
>>>
>>  I can't speak for everyone.  As for myself I have tried.  Forget it, the
>>  solution is seperation.  
> 
>>  Now if we could just convince "The Man" to send me and the rest of blacks
>>  away since, I don't want to see yall's ugly face no more and yall don't 
>>  want to see mine. 
> 
> 	Are these examples of of how hard you have "tried"? One wonders HOW
> you could have failed with such a nice attitude. As far as I am concerned,
> you and Terry Parks are the same person with different colored skin- you
> deserve each other. Enjoy living with your hate- I guess if anything it will
> keep you warm on all those cold nights you will be alone.
> 
> Chad R. Collins

  Life's too short for me to extensively comment on such ignorance.
  So many postings.  So little time.
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:42:13 GMT

>> Then could you be the one to point out the mythical program which is
>> restricted to Caucasians and denied to Blaks?
 
>  The mythical program is whites get hired and blacks don't.

And can you name this company or companies which won't hire anyone because
they're Blak? I certainly wouldn't want to have dealings with them.


>> Try the Sunday newspaper. Look for jobs at AA employers. Being Blak qualifies
>> you for employment with the Boston Fire Department, give them a call.
>> Ditto for MIT, while in Boston look them up too.
>> The RDU airport is setting aside 30% of its construction funds for
>> "minorities", give them a call.
  
>  Are you implying that I haven't been looking for work?

If anything, perhaps you arn't tuned in to how your race can be exploited
for personal gain. Set-aside contracts will make you wealthy. Contact
your local and state governments for projects under bid. Get a bid
from a subcontractor to do the work, add 10%, make that 20%--it sounds
like you could use the money--submit a minority bid, take your cut
and turn things over to the subcontractor.

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:10:05 GMT

>Programs like affirmative action, black 
>colleges, black high schools, race-based set-asides in government contracts,
>racial social clubs, etc. are the most prominent anti-integration
>institutions in society.  Rather than retreating from integration, we 
>ought to take the next step and try to make government, our businesses,
>and our personal lives as color-blind as we can.  Will everything immedicately
>become perfect?  No.  Will there still be a few bigots? 

Note that racist programs like AA and these others directly benefit bigots and
even reward people for their bigotry. Their existence serves to
promote, not attack, bigotry.

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: agoyo1@athena.mit.edu (yugnikufesin)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:26:50 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.220920.22376@microsoft.com>, johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall) writes:
|> He also specializes in being clumsy.  If he wants to benefit people
|> who oppose AA, he should keep quiet.  I have seen pro-AA people as
|> bad as Terry (not very often, mind you) but at least they eventually
|> go away.
Hey, you've forgotten that Terry Parks is not a he, she's a she!  She's also
married, too.  (way back in the spring, she revealed this information).

Acee Agoyo
agoyo1@athena.mit.edu
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5368 soc.culture.african.american:13017 misc.education:5378
From: kls30@cd.amdahl.com (Kent L. Shephard)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:40:15 GMT
Distribution: usa,local
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Dec16.191319.26213@oracle.us.oracle.com>, mfriedma@uucp
(Michael Friedman) writes:
>In article <1992Dec15.090227.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu>
>ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:

>>  be affected.  Again I ask Why? 
>
>
>1.  Union seniority rules
>2.  Blacks are more likely to work in the hardest hit sector - low
>skill, low wage work.

But why are black folks the ones with little senority and low skill work.
You talk about how your grandparents came here and made a life.  The were 
screwed over in Romania, not here in the US.  We are talking about here,*NOT* 
Romania.  If you got problems with how they were treated take it up with the 
Gov't of Romania.

My family got *FUCKED* over here and I live here.  The way black folks were
treated 30 years ago mild?  Well let's see, black men hung for dating white 
women in the south.  Civil Rights workers disappear while driving down
country roads, etc.   the list goes on.

The reason why black folks are the hardest hit during hard econi=omic times is
due to the Jum Crow laws ad unwritten rules that wouldn't let us into the 
unions, the colleges, etc.  So if you leave the unions like they are, ie.
last hired - first fired, then black folks will continue to get screwed over.



>-- 
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>---------
>I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one
>else.

-- 
/*  What me, speak for Amdahl?  Get real.  These opinions and statements  */
/*  belong to me and me only.   If something I said offends you, it's     */
/*  either you got a thin skin or that I'm just offensive.  Who cares.    */
/*                                                                        */
/* "I'm not going to sit at your table and watch you eat, with nothing    */
/*  on my plate, and call myself a diner. Sitting at the table doesn't    */   
/*  make you a diner.  Being here in America doesn't make you an          */
/*  American."                                                            */
/*							--Malcolm X       */
/*                                                                        */
/* kls30@cd.amdahl.com  -  Don't send NeXTmail!!                          */
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: collins@blkbox (Chad R. Collins)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism 
Organization: The Black Box, PO Box 591822 Houston, TX 77259-1822 
Distribution: usa,local
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 04:20:52 GMT

ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:

>  Many of you white people really blow my mind. 
>  So what is it now that YOU PEOPLE are trying to say? 
>>
>  I can't speak for everyone.  As for myself I have tried.  Forget it, the
>  solution is seperation.  

>  Now if we could just convince "The Man" to send me and the rest of blacks
>  away since, I don't want to see yall's ugly face no more and yall don't 
>  want to see mine. 

	Are these examples of of how hard you have "tried"? One wonders HOW
you could have failed with such a nice attitude. As far as I am concerned,
you and Terry Parks are the same person with different colored skin- you
deserve each other. Enjoy living with your hate- I guess if anything it will
keep you warm on all those cold nights you will be alone.

Chad R. Collins
collins@blkbox.com

Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african-american
From: buchignani@hg.uleth.ca
Subject: Re: Relevance of African-Am. History to U.S. citizens
Reply-To: buchignani@hg.uleth.ca
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:06:49 GMT

It is interesting that Sherlette Dixon has brought forward the
mosaic metaphor in defense of the more extensive presentation
of African American, Histpanic histories. Metaphors really
do matter. Here in Canada the 'cultural mosaic metaphor has been
used to describe Canadian society on and off since the 1920s.
Initially this was pretty much just a Canadian way of symbolizing
that 'we ain't Americans,' with their 'melting pot' images.

But since 1971 Canadian multicultural policy has used this image
powerfully to change the nature of how people view 'being
Canadian', such that being 'Canadian' and 'whatever' aren't
mutually contradictory. It has also had a very substantial effect
on official history, school texts, etc.

    Norm Buchignani/University of Lethbridge/BUCHIGNANI@HG.ULETH.CA
"If we have been accustomed to deplore the spectacle...of a workman occupied
during his whole life in nothing else but the making of knife-handles or pins'
heads, we may find something quite as lamentable in the intellectual class, in
the exclusive employment of a human brain in resolving some equations, or in
classifying insects. [This] occasions a miserable indifference about the
general course of human affairs, as long as there are equations to solve and
pins to manufacture."                                      Auguste Comte
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Date: 14 Dec 92 22:09:20 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: usa

In article brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
| Terry Parks:
| Would you PLEASE explain why you insist on spelling "black" as "blak"?
| Are you just clumsy?  Or are you trying to be insulting?  Or what?

I assume your question is rhetorical.  Terry (did anyone prove he
was really glenn Cooley??) specializes in being insulting.

He also specializes in being clumsy.  If he wants to benefit people
who oppose AA, he should keep quiet.  I have seen pro-AA people as
bad as Terry (not very often, mind you) but at least they eventually
go away.



-- 
-------------------------
My comments are my own.  They are independent and unrelated to the
views of my company , relatives or elected representatives.

Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
From: Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:13:10 GMT

>>>> Then could you be the one to point out the mythical program which is
>>>> restricted to Caucasians and denied to Blaks?
  
>>>  The mythical program is whites get hired and blacks don't.
 
>> And can you name this company or companies which won't hire anyone because
>> they're Blak? I certainly wouldn't want to have dealings with them.
 
>  I was speaking in general.

So there are no such companies. This is just part of the mythology promoted
by pro-racists to support their bigotry.

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5299 soc.culture.african.american:12856 misc.education:5237