From: mab50312@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark A. Blickhan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Eckersley NOT better than Fingers
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:11:48 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

>In article <1992Apr12.183239.11547@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> glb50263@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
(Gary L. Blickhan) writes:
>>Simply put, Eckersley is not better than Rollie Fingers.



>*might* have a case with career value, but definitely not with peak value.
>>
 
What do you mean by *might* have a better career?  Fingers had a better
career than Eckersley hands down.  Who's IN the HOF and who needs a lot of
help? If everyone thinks Ozzie Smith, Sandberg, Fisk, Murray, Nolan Ryan,
Clemens, Puckett, and everyone else on your HOF lists will get in, tell
me, at TWO (or about every five years, three) inductees every year, how's
the Eck going to get in?  (Yeah, I know he pitched for the Cubs, and was
mediocre, BUT he had a few good years. Then we oughta put KINGMAN and Larry
Parrish in while were at it!)

>>  (Stuff deleted)

>>writers concluded that Eckersley's chances are about "even money."

>Only because he hasn't been a reliever for too long.  Or rather, only because
>he has been pitching in Wrigley for quite a while.
>>
>>2)Fingers won the Cy Young award ***and*** the AL MVP in 1981, making him
>>the first pitcher to win both in the same year.  (Willie Hernandez did it
>>in 1984, but his name is not in this discussion.)  Eckersley has not won
>>either award once.

>As if those are really the best indications of how a pitcher is.  Remember how
>Bob Welch won it over Roger Clemens...

Blatantly glossing over the point. If the Eck even came close to any
accolades, why not say so instead of discediting the Cy Young and MVP.

>>3)Fingers led the majors in saves three times (1977,1978,1981).  Eckersley
>>has only done that once.

>So, Jeff Reardon is the best active reliever?

Good point. Either Fingers or the Eck is comparable to Bryan Harvey, Thigpen,
Henke, Reardon, or about any other closer on the basis of consistency of
getting saves.  However, when Fingers pitched as a reliever (unlike Eck),
Fingers was not comparable to anyone on a yearly basis.

>>4)Fingers has the all-time record for saves. (341)   Eckersley had 188 at
>>the end of 1991.
>>
>>5)In three World Series apiece, Eckersley did hardly anything.
>>1988- 0 wins, 1 loss, 10.8 ERA.  He was the goat.
>>1989- 1 save in 1 2/3 innings. 0 ERA.  Pretty good.
>>1990- 0 wins, 1 loss, 6.75 ERA.  0 Saves.  Not good.
>> 
>> Fingers was great.  
>> 1972- 1 win, 1 loss, 2 saves, 11 k's, 1.74 ERA.
>> 1973- 0 wins, 1 loss, 2 saves, 8 k's, 0.66 ERA.
>> 1974- 1 win, 0 losses, 2 saves, 6 k's, 1.93 ERA.

>The A's needed the Eck to have any shot at the World Series in all three of
>those years.  Take the Eck away, and you are seeing a different team.  It is
>important to win World Series, but to do so, you must get there first.

Yes, it is VERY important to WIN the WS!!! Fingers did 3 times, the Eck only
once in three attempts.

>> 6) Fingers has a 2.90 ERA compared to the 3.47 ERA of Eckersley.

>Because Eckersley had been a starter for most of his career, and has pitched
>mostly in Wrigley.

Ignoring the stats(or just modifying them to fit your liking)! What matters
in that Fingers has a 2.90 ERA and Eck had 3.47 ERA. If he WAS that good
of a reliever, then the Eck is a LOSER for having to pitch in Wrigley as
a starter. GOOD players get GOOD jobs (why nobody sticks around in
Cleveland).

>> 7) Eckersley is no longer effective.  I believe he was tagged for 11 or so
>> long balls.  Donnie Hill of the Angels got his only homer of the season
>> of the Eck.  

>His opponent OBP is *so* low, though, that it compensates, really, for the
Well, nobody (even Tony LaRussa) is perfect.

Go California Angels!   Von Hayes for AL MVP(you heard it here,ha ha)

Mark Blickhan