From: dave5@bivalve.bellcore.com (Dave Ensign)
Subject: Re: Lets put this one to rest...
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 15:35:04 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.225632.15775@uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU>, GLADSTONE@csmcmvax.bitnet writes:
|> more stuff

I don't want to get into a point-by-point again.  And I would take this to
email, but there might be people out there who would benefit from this
information.  So let me make 4 more points.  And I can't promise to put
this to rest :-).

	1) Jean and I don't necessarily disagree...I'm just more of
	   a wimp than she is when it comes to being out at shows.  It
	   also may be that Oakland is a more gay-friendly venue than
	   the east-coast venues I'm normally at, but I want to avoid
	   dwelling on this since we've had enough generalizations
	   here lately.

	2) I've been to a lot of bars in my life, and have never been involved
	   in a fight.  I've also spent a lot of time with PWAs (People With
	   AIDS), and have never felt there was much of a chance of being
	   bitten!  Sure, there's a slight probability that the building I'm
	   sitting in right now will suddenly explode...but I don't feel the
	   need to go out and warn everybody about the dangers of being in
	   buildings.  I think there's a need for people to stop spreading
	   inflated fear of AIDS, especially when it's combined with a
	   "blame-the-victim" attitude.

	3) You obviously love to watch people and draw conclusions from
	   what you observe.  I can relate to that...I think people-watching
	   is the most interesting thing in the world.  But it's also my
	   experience that as a person gains more experience and maturity, they
	   start to make many fewer conclusive statements about what they
	   observe.  You seem to have realized that your posting had a flavor
	   of that, which I appreciate.  But I also think you should realize
	   that even without the extrapolation, your selection of observations
	   are dangerous.  You may say that you've observed that some gay men
	   are "The worst, low life types, from a hetero perspective, and
	   probably from a gay perspective", but what possible purpose can
	   there be in such a statement other than to fuel stereotypes and,
	   yes, even hatred.  Haven't you also observed stable, loving gay
	   relationships? That would be a much more interesting situation for
	   me to read about when I go to read r.m.g!

	4) Bottom line:  I'd like you to examine your motives.  How do you
	   think people would respond if I decided to launch into a tirade
	   about negative things I've observed about the Black, Philippino,
	   or Latin communities during the three years I lived in Jersey
	   City?  If I did that, it *would* be racist, just like what you
	   wrote *is* Heterosexist (if you don't want to call it Homophobic).
	   Every group vulnerable to criticism...we've waded into
	   dangerous waters when talking about the lack of people of color at
	   dead shows.  Are we white supremecists (sp) or bigots?  I think
	   we all know it's not as simple as that.

Ugh, I'm using up more time than I should on this.

Peace!
-- 
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* David Ensign      Bell Communications Research  Piscataway, NJ       *
* (908) 699-8168    dave5@bivalve.bellcore.com    bellcore!navaho!dave5*
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