HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Meaning of Intelligence
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:46:23 GMT

In article <1992Oct02.161031.15798@bnr.ca> "Rodney Adams" <RADAMS@BNR.CA> writes:
[....]
>By the way, Mark, I liked your post detailing your valid complaints about
>Scott and urging him to seek help.  However, this is apparently not the
>work of a troubled individual seeking to share his views.  This is the
>work of one or, likely, more individuals attempting to have fun at the expense
>of those who read this newsgroup.
>
>Perhaps they just wanted to test out their AI program, but it has grown
>entirely too tiresome.  
>

My personal problem is that I find myself very critical of writing and
such and easily bored.  I think that's probably true of a lot of people
here.  So sometimes I figure I don't enjoy something because of my
low tolerance or maybe some attention span thing.  So I keep quiet
about it.  And sometimes there are people who really are terrible
writers, thinkers, or both, that have a perfect right to be on the
net, so it's none of my business if they want to post.  Now, if
someone is a legitimate moron, clinically speaking, they can't help it.

But the one thing I cannot tolerate is their not being able to
realize after people state over and over that what they are doing
is trivial and boring.  Like the idiot who says for the twentieth
time, "I've fallen and I can't get up."  Like bad Three's Company
episodes.  Like the six-year-old who figures out how to make a
spit ball.  Eventually it loses its charm.  Like the kid that
posts "well you guys are all poo-poo heads" and laughs like this
is the most entertaining thing a person could possibly do and
they are first person to think of it.

It's like telling a mental defective to hold a stick.  That stick
is the most important thing in the world, even though everyone is
walking by, wondering what the big deal is, and losing interest
after a few seconds.

The world is filled with mediocrity.  Why contribute?  Unless
there is nothing else you can.

Of course, there are other explanations, which have been posted
already, but in all cases, my position is that the reason
for useless behavior is irrelevant.  It remains useless.

We all must seek out those responsible for it and tell them, 

"Hey, get a hobby!"

Later.

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: crawdad@fncent (Matt Crawford)
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Summary: REEEEtest!
Supersedes: <HHL4F3M7Z@linac.fnal.gov>
Organization: FERMILAB, Batavia, IL
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 22:39:20 GMT

> I, Matt Crawford, wrote:
>> Yeah, yeah.  And back in high school I used to positively *scare*
>> people with uncannily accurate tarot card readings.  But I never
>> believed in cartomancy.  The cards were just a prop to expedite a
>> little flim-flam.

Young-Kyu Yoo sputtered:
>YOU used tarot cards to flim-flam folks, therefore cartomancy
>doesn't work??  And as a corollary, astrology is a scam???
>
>Brilliant logic.  Much the same kind of un-reasoning used by all too
>many debunkers.

Did I *say* "cartomancy doesn't work"??  No.  I said "I never
believed in cartomancy."  If you have a reading comprehension
problem, you'd be well advised not to get into a flame war.

I claim that what I said above is evidence against the validity of
such inferences as "Using occult system X, I produced startlingly
accurate readings, therefore system X has power."
_________________________________________________________
Matt Crawford       crawdad@fncent.fnal.gov      Fermilab

Naturally I don't speak for my employer, who, as everyone
knows, believes that the annual sacrifice of a number of
bison will focus the antiproton beam better.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: t// Re: T/T: Statistics - rec.org.mensa most prolific posters!
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 11:24:34 GMT

tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>
>shrum@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Rick Shrum) writes:
>|> In article <1992Sep23.153523.26157@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>|> Well, I'm just doing my quarterly check to see if Scott Tai has gotten a
>|> life yet, and the answer is still a resounding NO! 
>|> Scotty, why have you chosen dissing MENSA your personal crusade? 
>|> Whats your next project, trying to get the NAACP to integrate?
>|> Sheesh dude, yer lacking.
>|> YEE-HAWWW!!!!!
>
>Well, I'm just doing my quarterly check to see if "Rick Shrum" has gotten a
>life yet, and the answer is still a resounding NO!
>Ricky, why have you chosen dissing SCOTT TAI your personal crusade?
>Whats your next project, trying to get MIKE STEINER to stop posting?
>Sheesh dude, yer lacking.
>YEE-HAWWW!!!!!
>
>--
>Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
>NCSU Artificial Intelligence Lab
>Centennial Campus

Your intelligence is beginning to sound increasingly artificial, Tai.
(gales of laughter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: quam@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (David Quam)
Subject: Re: t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 20:07:06 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.221718.10324@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:


>> This claim of joining MENSA for social reasons has always sounded hollow. 
>> First, any area large enough for a MENSA chapter will also have any number 
>> of other clubs, and any interest club on an intellectual subject will be 
>> overloaded with intelligent people. Second, unless one is a gross 
>> underachiever, anyone bright enough to qualify for MENSA will be 
>> surrounded by intelligent people at college or at work. 


I disagree totally.  All people in MENSA have IQ's (whatever that means,
and it doesn't matter anyway) at or above the 98th percentile.  This prob-
ably isn't true of any other ordinary club.  How many "interest clubs" have
"an intellectual subject"?  Only a minority.  And their members don't ALL
have IQ's over 135.

Most people "in college" are barely above average in intelligence, and how
many of them want to talk about intellectual subjects, anyway?  Don't you
remember what your college classmates did on their spare time?  That's right --
drink, party, have sex, watch TV.  And as far as people "at work" being very
intelligent, give me a break!  Business is the haven of dodos.
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Muchow D.: About Nothing ==> NOT HARDLY
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:09:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewse.1992Sep29.200942.26622
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Sep29.062741.18996@tfs.com> ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>>muchow@venus.iex.com (Don Muchow) writes:
>>>A barber shaves everyone who does not shave him(or her)self, and does not
>>>shave anyone who does shave him(/her)self.
>>>
>>>There are no linguistic loopholes or other similar tricks here.  Now, the
>>>question is: Does the barber shave himself?
>>>
>>>I know there is some sort of logical fallacy here, or something like one, or
>>>perhaps this question is just a freak of nature.
>
>>Yes.  The premise you've stated is false.
>>
>>GMS
>
>Nothing trivial here. This is Russell's paradox, and ultimately ties into
>Godel, as I recall. There are three set theories, one of which is plagued
>by this paradox, and one of which is not, more than that I don't recall.
>
>It has to do with whether domains can contain themselves, and whther your
>axioms get you into trouble.
>
>If I could do math symbols in this medium, I could write the thing down
>in a fairly clear fashion. Go browse set-theory books in a math section
>somewhere, look up Russell's paradox. It has another name in a variation
>(as I aslo recall.)

You can.  Do it.  TIA.

GMS
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:03:38 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.023435.1538@netcom.com>, yoo@netcom.com (Young-Kyu Yoo) writes:
> 
> >Similarly, until an astrologer can show that s/he did not use psychological
> >flim-flam to make her assessments, the logical conclusion is that s/he did use
> >flim flam.
> 
> 1.  Occam's razor is not a LOGICAL necessity.  Its use is convention, as much
> as the assumption of innocence in American courts and the assumption of
> guilt in Britain.  

No, it is not a necessity; however, it is a principle that hasn't failed me yet.

> 2.  I have NOT argued, "People were struck by the uncanny accuracy of my
> horoscopes, so astrology is for real."  I HAVE argued, "*I* was struck by
> the uncanny accuracy of my horoscopes (as attested to by the subjects),
> therefore *I* believe there is something to astrology."  I have also
> argued that folks should check astrology out for themselves
> (by actually casting horoscopes, rather than taking my word on the
> subject).  

I think that the original point was that you could have been fooling even
yourself, and that you are a very good reader of personalities.  Many years
ago (before the advent of personal computers or even of pocket calculators),
my wife and I cast horroscopes; I did the math, and she did the interpretations.
We bought our materials from the bookstore of the American Federation of
Astrologers, which in those days was located a block or two behind the
Library of Congress in Washington, DC. (I've heard that they have since moved
to Phoenix, AZ.)  It didn't take us long to realize that the intepretations
are very easily adaptable to virtually everyone with whom we came into contact.
We found that no matter what sign's description one chose, you could devise an
accurate description of me (for example) from it.

> Clear?           

As mud.
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Deep Heat
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:53:09 GMT
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Originator: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu


gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:

|> But then I saw another thread, and that is that your lack of 
|> coherence seemed to be similar to that of columns in magazines that 
|> are published under a pseudonym and actually written by different 
|> authors who don't collaborate well.

|> I even considered the idea that some have come up with that the posts 
|> are produced by a gimmicked-up elementary Eliza-type program [...]

You're getting VERY warm :) :) :)

--
Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
NCSU Artificial Intelligence Lab
Centennial Campus
From: clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: "wrong" answers on IQ tests
Date: 28 Sep 92 13:09:25 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <66679@cup.portal.com>, Tim W Smith writes:

> I picked up a book called something like "Test Your IQ" or "Know You
> IQ" or something like that (clearly, the next book I should read is
> "How To Organize You Library"!).

Is this the Arco book?  It's really funny, although not intentionally
so.

> 	The five designs are capital letters: N A V H and F.

> There answer is that V is least like the others because it is drawn with
> two lines, while the others are drawn with three.  My answer is that A is
> the least like th others because it divides the plane into two regions
> while the others do not.

My answer is H, since it is the only one with two lines of symmetry.
A and V have one, N and F have none.

I would say score your answer as correct.
-- 
Chris Long, 265 Old York Rd., Bridgewater, NJ  08807-2618
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: t// Re: Personal to gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 06:23:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.030832.29436@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>
>ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>|> mai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Mai Tai) writes substitution into GMS's letter.
>|> 
>|> >Good Luck!
>|> >
>|> >Mai
>|> 
>|> I think we've been parsing this wrong. MAI = M AI, TAI = T AI.
>|> "sisters" . . .
>
>Ha.

Okay, this is a great example of what I was interested in.
Maybe I'm dim, but I don't have a clue as to what you're trying
to convey.  Why do you think Eric's questioning what your point
is funny?  Are you so much more inteligent than the rest of the
net that we just don't get your humor?  If so, spell this out.
Also if so, sorry about that.  

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: Muchow D.: About Nothing ==> NOT HARDLY
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 07:13:15 GMT

gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>>gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>>>ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:

Hmm . . .

>>>>If I could do math symbols in this medium, I could write the thing down
>>>>in a fairly clear fashion. Go browse set-theory books in a math section
>>>>somewhere, look up Russell's paradox. It has another name in a variation
>>>>(as I aslo recall.)
>>>You can.  Do it.  TIA.
>>>GMS
>>What does TIA mean?
>
>Sorry for the assumption.  For those out there who I've left without
>information, TIA means "Thanks In Advance".
>
>As an aside, I've always been under that assumption that the quote
>should follow the period rather than precede it, as I see most often.
>
>	Advance."
>
>	rather than
>
>	Advance".
>
>Anyone know?
>
>GM("Too Much Free Time And Neurotic Enough To Use It")S

Strunk & White, and others, say the punctuation belongs inside the quote
(and parentheses too.)

I think for visual effect, that we should feel free to put the punctuation
where it seems to fit. That is not a rule with much self-evident (to me)
merit. So I ordinarily follow the rule, but I violate it for effect as I
choose.

GMS suggests? Or someone did, using multi-line ascii chars to denote symbols.
What a drag! That's why I didn't want to.

Re: Russell's paradox, either someone out there do the lookup for it,
if anyone still cares, or - do I get taffy candy for finding the
explanation in the bookstore/library? It was not *my* curiosity.
No, not taffy - send a bottle of Ouzo.

-ecsd
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: Deep Heat
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 10:20:17 GMT

tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>
>gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>|> I even considered the idea that some have come up with that the posts 
>|> are produced by a gimmicked-up elementary Eliza-type program [...]
>
>You're getting VERY warm :) :) :)

Oh, yeah? Is that why your automaton won't tangle with me then? Pfui.
Let's run some tests if you like. I can fox out your program - No Sweat.

You might take the advice already given, that the program should not try
to re-use material the opponent considers dispensed with.

-Master: syntax not matters does.
Chomsky was barking up the wrong tree.
See you around my age 60.
-ecsd
From: mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas)
Subject: Re: t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 00:24:49 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.222847.11002@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>
>"Eric":
>
>You're not more intelligent; you simply scored higher on a test
>whose validity is questionable.

Just because he scored high on a test, that doesn't mean he *isn't* more
intelligent.

-- 
John Mechalas                                          "I'm not an actor, but
mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu                                 I play one on TV."
Aero Engineering, Purdue University                     #include disclaimer.h
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: yoo@netcom.com (Young-Kyu Yoo)
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: "world"
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 18:23:23 GMT

>Thats because "what their signs predict" is usually such sweeping
>generalities that they could be applied to anyone.

True.  But signs (aka sun signs) are only a portion of what goes into a   
good natal horoscope.  The horoscopes in daily newspapers, for instance,
are crap.

>Back in my highscool psychology class the teacher did a little experiment.
>Everyone was given a copy of their horoscope and told to rate how accurate
>it was. The ratings were generally very good. She then revealed that we
>had all gotten exactly the same description.

The same experiment has been performed with professional pyschological
personality profiles.  There is still much controversial about the validity
of personality profiles in general.   Perhaps we should get on the cases
of the pyschologists and psychiatrists that are duping us?  :-)
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: The Providence of Astrology
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:10:24 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Oct5.151847.10956@tfs.com> ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>>ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>>>All Right.
>>>We shall proceed - sort of, in fits and starts.
>>>
>>>Dave Casper. Has Virgo *up the ass*, and Moon in Taurus (he is a
>>
>>I knew it!  I knew it!  What have I been telling you, Dave?!?  :-)
>>
>>
>>GMS
>
>Oh, fuck. Like you you you have the faintest, freaking idea who I'm
>talking about. Tell me you know I am talking about Mr. Cern, the arch-
>heckler of alt.astrology??
>Pfui, GMS. Send me yer chart info so yew cain be part this hyere cnspircy.
>Eyuh. Nyewp. You jist gotta send the info, Tuff Shitskis. Ohhmmmmmmm . . .

Shame, Eric!  You know I'm psychic!  Casper should be getting mighty
nervous right now, since now that HE knows that I'm psychic, he's getting
pretty nervous about that little slush fund deal with Rev. Moon
and those Vegas Weekends!  

And no, I'm not going to decode this for anyone except "Deep Pockets".
And I don't have to for Eric, since he's in the Omniscient club
as well.

GM("Using This Identity to Protect my Loved Ones During My Crusade for
Truth, Justice and the American Way")S

BTW, you should have the information you requested by now, Eric.
(As if I had to SEND it!)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 12:00:36 GMT

nick+@pitt.edu (Nick C De Mello) writes:
>>So what is Occam's Razor, again?
>  Occam's razor is a philosophical tool suggested by William Ockham, if
>I remember right.  Essentially, he suggested that if you allow a new
>theory to introduce new postulates, then there are an infinite number
>of equally valid theories.  Example, a rock could fall straight down
>because of gravity, or we could postulate that rocks choose to fall
>straight down because they are afraid of heights.
>
>  So he suggested his tool: the theory that requires the least amount
>of postulates, or the least fantastic postulates, is most likely to
>be the best model for reality.  That's paraphrased.
>                        -- Nick
>                          (Capricorn, Capricorn rising)

Sounds like Einstein. G = 8 pi T, E = m c^2, simple enough.
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:44:25 GMT
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Originator: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu


rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz) writes:
|> jswthomp@milton.u.washington.edu (James Thompson) writes:
|> 
|> >Hold it.  Reality check time.
|> 
|> >According to many of the posts I've seen here, by Mensans defending the fact
|> >that Mensa doesn't accomplish anything, Mensa IS nothing more than a social
|> >club.  If you want to be considered significant, you have to DO something
|> >significant.
|> 
|> Mensa is significant because it keeps us Mensans off the streets.

Now if only it could keep you off the net... *sigh*

--
Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
NCSU Artificial Intelligence Lab
Centennial Campus
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: Personal to gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 10:25:33 GMT

mai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Mai Tai) writes substitution into GMS's letter.

>Good Luck!
>
>Mai

I think we've been parsing this wrong. MAI = M AI, TAI = T AI.
"sisters" . . .

Come get me Tai! HST-II will kill you long after deep-thought trashes
Kasparov. I'f I'm to be jealous, let's see if it's warranted.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: muchow@venus.iex.com (Don Muchow)
Subject: Muchow D.: About Nothing
Organization: iex
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 18:24:17 GMT



Here's a conundrum whose nature is clear to me; however, I have never
heard a good explanation of how to resolve the obvious conflicts implied.

A barber shaves everyone who does not shave him(or her)self, and does not
shave anyone who does shave him(/her)self.

There are no linguistic loopholes or other similar tricks here.  Now, the
question is: Does the barber shave himself?

I know there is some sort of logical fallacy here, or something like one, or
perhaps this question is just a freak of nature.

Does anyone have any answers?
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: seb@draper.com (Steve Bacher)
Subject: Re: I. M. Shirley Wright says...
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:54:18 GMT

Quoth Sandy Topping <st15+@andrew.cmu.edu>:

>The colon and semicolon fall *outside* the quotation marks

So, if I have a problem with the "From:" header because my program
needs a "header = NULL;" statement, I am violating Webster's? :-)

 - seb
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: "wrong" answers on IQ tests
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:09:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: claris.15228

In article <1992Sep28.153937.19096@cbnewse.cb.att.com>, gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
> 
> In article <Sep.28.09.09.24.1992.27295@remus.rutgers.edu> clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long) writes:
> >In article <66679@cup.portal.com>, Tim W Smith writes:
> >
> >> I picked up a book called something like "Test Your IQ" or "Know You
> >> IQ" or something like that (clearly, the next book I should read is
> >> "How To Organize You Library"!).
> 
> Read my upcoming book, "Understanding the Dewey Decimal System: A
> Place for Everything Would be Pretty Big".
> 
> >
> >Is this the Arco book?  It's really funny, although not intentionally
> >so.
> >
> >> 	The five designs are capital letters: N A V H and F.
> >
> >> There answer is that V is least like the others because it is drawn with
> >> two lines, while the others are drawn with three.  My answer is that A is
> >> the least like th others because it divides the plane into two regions
> >> while the others do not.
> 
> I wonder how intelligent, on average, the designers of intelligence
> tests are.  Or, for that matter, if they aren't very intelligent, but
> have designed tests that make it seem that they are.  And old question,
> but I thought I'd just offer it in light of this thread.
> 
> BTW, I would say "F", because it's the only letter that does not
> appear in the word, "Havana".

Ha!  "Q" doesn't appear in the word, "Havana."  (You didn't say that "F" is
the only word on the list that doesn't appear in the word "Havana.")
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa