From: rdetweil@boi.hp.com (Richard Detweiler)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: MULLAHS BURN QURANS AND DESECRATE MOSQUE IN DACCA
Date: 13 Nov 92 23:41:54 GMT
Followup-To: soc.religion.bahai
Organization: Hewlett Packard

In article <1992Nov11.202126.29023@bernina.ethz.ch> nadeem@igpho (Nadeem Malik) writes:
>mirza@vxcrna.cern.ch (MIRZA,I./EP) writes:
>: In article <1992Nov10.203321.25760@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, rana@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana) writes...
>: > 
>: >Every divine religion has been persecuted. If you look at the history
>: >of any divine religions, Jewism, Christianity, Islam, all were persecuted
>: >in beginning.
>: > 
>: >This could be a sign of the truth of Ahmadiyya Islam?
>: > 
>: > 

  [Some deleted]

>: 	What about BHAIS in Iran and MARXIST every where. I thought
>: 	they were persecuted too (In the begining and at places upto now). 

  [Some deleted]
>: 
>: Mirza Ilyas
>
>A good point raised by Mirza sahib, and it needs clarification.
>

  [Some deleted]

>
>There are two key points which distinguishes the truely chosen ones of God and
>ordinary non-religious peoples in this respect;
>
>(1) Most importantly, the chosen people of God are persecuted ONLY for the
>sake of their religion; the early Muslims were killed not because of any ethnic
>or cultural or nationalistic difference or for political reasons (although such
>things can get involved as a side-effect) -- they were killed only because
>they chose to say "There is no god but Allah". 
>

  [Some deleted]

>
>(2) The more that the chosen people of God are persecuted, the more Allah helps
>them and ultimately they go from strength to strength. 
>
  [Some deleted]
>
>As for Bahais, they have certainly been persecuted for their religion (although
>I think that there is a certain amount of politics involved too). But they cannot
>calim to point (2) above. I do not agree with it, but it has to be said that
>the Bahais have been all but desimated in Iran, and it is not possible for them
>to re-establish themselves their again, at least not in a position of influence.
>God does not allow his chosen ones to be so decisively annihilated. he protects
>them from the most severe excess often in miraculous ways, e.g. the Muslims at the
>Battle of Badr.
>
>I hope that I have benefitted some people on this issue.
>
>Nadeem Malik
>nadeem@p.igp.ethz.ch


Nadeem,

Your post on the persecution of God's people is very accurate.  I agree that
it is a necessary but not sufficient condition in establishing the 
legitimacy of a Prophet's claim to Divine authority.

Since you mention the Baha'i Faith in your post, please allow me to give
my perspective on this issue as it differs somewhat from your own.  The 
Baha'i Faith, beyond a doubt, fulfills the first of your criteria - I am 
sure everyone reading this is aware of the persecutions suffered in the 
past and presently being suffered by the Baha'is of Iran as it is a matter 
of record.  Perhaps you are not aware of the strict prohibition against 
our involvement in politics and the admonition to obey the government
under which we live.  These are laws which Baha'is everywhere must adhere
to or suffer the loss of there administrative rights in the Baha'i community.
I am aware of allegations made as to the political involvment of Baha'is but
I assure you that these are baseless and that the ONLY reason Baha'is have
been persecuted in Iran is because of their religious convictions.

I would also like to make the case for the Baha'i Faith with regards to 
your second criteria.  The Baha'i Faith, far from being decimated, has
grown far beyond the confines of Iran with each wave of persecution in the 
country of its birth, to the point where it is now the second most widely 
spread religion after Christianity - eclipsing the spread even of Islam.  
This is a powerful proof of the effectiveness of the healing message of the 
oneness of humanity enunciated by Baha'u'llah.  On the one hand, many of its
adherents groan under the weight of persecution while, on the other, more 
and more people from all of the world's cultural and ethnic groups respond 
to the message and become committed to the Faith and its principles.  It
should also be noted that while the Baha'is of Iran have been stripped of 
many of their basic rights and the administrative order of the Faith has been 
barred from functioning, the Baha'i community of Iran remains that country's 
second largest religious minority.

Far from being "decisively annihilated", the Baha'i Faith is a dynamic,
strong, and growing world-wide community of people dedicated to the 
establishment of a secure and lasting peace among nations through the
timely and regenerating influence of its Founder, Baha'u'llah.

Best regards,

Dick Detweiler : rdetweil@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com