HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: arocho@acsu.buffalo.edu (Vance A. Arocho)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Whites Critical of African-Americans
Date: 9 Apr 92 00:21:53 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UB

RD (Ron Dippold):
>So how about the Italians?  They do fine, and many still maintain a
>strong Italian heritage.

VA:
>***** I don't know of any Italians who live in the ghetto; do you?

RD:
No, they escaped the Italian ghettos.  As did the Poles and others As I said,
they've made it.

***** And their skin color was never a 'disadvantage' for them. Also, were guns
and drugs as rampant then as they are now, in the inner cities? Was crack in
existence back then? 
***** 

VA:
>Also, they need not concern themselves with being the 'wrong color'. 

RD:
Vietnamese?

***** They also have to worry about intolerance. You are implicitly comparing
one group to another. Each group has a different set of experiences, beliefs
and values. As I have stated before (at least several times) Asians (Orientals,
to be more precise) have always favored the mental over the physical, just like
the Jews. They have not found success here in professional athletics and the 
entertainment industry (in general) as African-Americans have. So it should not
be surprising many young African-Americans aspire to become professional ath-
letes or entertainers. Additionally many African-Americans (and Hispanic-Ameri-
cans and girls) are discouraged from taking the advanced math & science courses
that might have lead them to pursue a math/science/engineering major in college
Asians have been exploited here but they were never enslaved and they always
managed to preserve their culture. You don't get it, do you? 
*****

VA:
>Additionally, you are mistaken to compare one group with another. The African-
>American experience is unique and no group has had to endure so much injustice
>and suffering as they as well as being taught that they are inferior.

RD:
The Jews might dispute that.

***** I concur, only if we do not limit ourselves to the U.S., to which I was
referring. No group has suffered as much as African-Americans in America. 
*****

Peace.

-- 
"A young man who is a conservative has no heart; an old man who is a liberal 
has no brain." (Winston Churchill)
"Sin trabajo, no hay nada." ("Without work, there is nothing.")
Vance Arocho: arocho@acsu.edu (SUN)/V068PZYD@ubvms  (VAX)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.iranian,soc.rights.human,talk.politics.mideast,talk.religion.misc
From: mib@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Michael I Bushnell)
Subject: Re: Minority Religions in Iran (was executed baha'i)
Organization: Free Software Foundation, Cambridge, MA
	<1992Apr14.182229.20585@cco.caltech.edu>
	<1992Apr15.034724.4509@gboro.glassboro.edu>
	<1992Apr16.190922.8114@cco.caltech.edu>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 21:34:55 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.190922.8114@cco.caltech.edu> bes@cco.caltech.edu (Behnam Sadeghi) writes:

   I asked for examples of religious discrimination against Jews, not
   against Muslims!  Jews are represented porportionate with their
   population (in fact, they are probably over-represented). If it
   wasn't for the fact that they are guaranteed a seat, they would
   have been very unlikely to gain any representation.  Look at
   Britain: There are two million Muslim citizens in that country with
   no representation in the government.  Look at the U.S., there are
   about four million Muslims in this country with no representation
   in the Congress.

This is nuts, and exposes the problem with proportional
representation.  My representative isn't gay, and yet, I have a
representative in Congress.  My representative doesn't have brown
hair, and yet, I have a representative in Congress.  My senator isn't
Protestant, and yet, I have a representative Senator in Congress.

If those four million Muslims vote, then they have an effect, and they
are heard.  To claim that a religious group is *entitiled* to
proportional representation makes no more sense than to claim that
blue-eyed people are entitled to proportional representation.

	-mib
--
Michael Innis Bushnell    | I give you a new commandment, that you 
Email: mib@gnu.ai.mit.edu | love one another.  Just as I have loved 
Phone (H) +1 617 625 4518 | you, you also should love one another. By
Phone (W) +1 617 253 8568 | this everyone will know that you are my
			  | disciples, if you have love for one another.

Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:1619 alt.politics.correct:3701 soc.culture.african:1873
From: pprior@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Paul A Prior)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Slavery (was Re: Sexist African Males)
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:11:08 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <1992Apr14.223436.12865@acsu.buffalo.edu> osele@acsu.buffalo.edu (itiakorit j osele) writes:
>In article <1992Apr14.191702.5923@wpi.WPI.EDU> padutton@wpi.WPI.EDU (Peter Alan Dutton) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr13.212637.2973@acsu.buffalo.edu> osele@acsu.buffalo.edu (itiakorit j osele) writes:
>>>
>>>And I would like to ask: why is it that the people you mentioned above
>>>are only to glad to be part of the good things [e.g medical technology]
>>>that they ancestors may helped bring about ? Genuine progress in human
>>>development can only come about if we begin to accept historical
>>>contributions in total both negative and positive. 
>>>
>>
>>Sure - I'm glad that I'm here to appreciate modern medical technology, and
>>I'm glad that I'm here to appreciate a country without slavery. But I do NOT
>>take credit for those advances, just like I do not merit blame for slavery
>>or bubonic plague, for that matter.
>>
>>Peter
>
>Of coarse one doesn't take credit directly, but people do it indirectly
>by taking pride in what their ancestors did. This is one of the linchips
>of racism,  i.e human progress has been the effort of some races and not
>others.
>
>What I was wondering aloud in the net was, why not take pride in
>the good things AND responsibilty for the bad - it sure would make us
>better human beings ?
>

I am willing to -acknowledge- the bad things that have happened
(for example our disgraceful treatment of the native peoples of
north america), but I certainly won't be held -responsible- for
them.  There's a big difference there!

-- 
--------pprior@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu----(614) 297-8474----------------
Paul A. Prior    Ban anchors, not reef tanks   "With friends like this,   
2nd year medical student		          who needs anemones?"
The Ohio State U. College of Medicine   Tobacco Kills- Please don't smoke!
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: Neil Hull <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Whites Critical of Af
X-To: VANCE A. AROCHO
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 22:34:00 GMT

VAA> (lines about Clarence Thomas's history deleted)
VAA>man derides AA yet himself was a beneficiary of it (that's how he got into
VAA>law school). Can you say 'hypocrisy'?

I think that right now, somebody up there is saying "GOTCHA!"

I say this because of your statement that Clarence Thomas got into law school
because of "Affirmative" Action.  Now, again, while I am a Canadian and
therefore not very well versed in American politics, the politics of
Affirmative Discrimination err whoops, Affirmative Action (excuse my obvious
lack of subtlety here...) are similar in both of our countries.

And ONE of the arguments used by people against such programmes, which is
even used by many people in the designated groups, is that people will
come to believe that those in the designated groups "got in" because of
an "A"A programme, rather than on the basis of their own merits.

I believe that you may have unwittingly fallen into that trap.  Mind you,
this is NOT meant as a flame or insult of some sort, it's just meant to
stimulate some discussion on how we view such programmes, ie., will its
benefactors begin to wonder whether they would have gotten in REGARDLESS
of their skin colour, gender, or some other characteristic(s)?

This is just one of the many reasons why I oppose such programmes.

W.

Standard Disclaimer - ZOOiD BBS Spokesperson...Not!
(Who the devil started this "not" nonsense, anyway?)

 * SLMR 2.1a * ZOOiD BBS (416) 322-7856 -- Honk.
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: st11a@judy.uh.edu (Joseph Beasley III)
Subject: RE: W.C. of AfAms
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 00:41:00 GMT

>But those European immigrants have assimilated and are prospering
>while the current state of African-Americans leaves much to be desired and they
>have been here for several hundred years. I don't deny what's happened in the
>past, I'm just more concerned with 'the here-and-now'. 
> 
Very true.  It seems that a small percentage of blacks who don't care about
their own life or the life of anyone else, is causing the entire race to 
go down year after year.  Years ago, when blacks were killed and murdered 
for no reason but their skin color, you very seldom heard of blacks murdering
each other in great numbers.  But now that the lynchings and murders are no
longer carried out by other races, we seem to be taking over what another 
race has started.
From: tag@ptnext.claremont.edu (Taylor Gilbert)
Subject: L.A. jazz history info NEEDED!
Organization: Harvey Mudd College
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 20:59:25 GMT


	I am working on a paper on the history of L.A. Jazz scene
and the key musicians that were a part of it.  
	I am looking for texts that talk about the racism of the Los Angleles  
police department, I have heard that during the 50's that they had a 
policy of stopping all African-Americans headed west to Santa Monica or Venice
in an attempt limit their exposure and keep them downtown.  
	Also there are accounts of police standing outside of jazz clubs
and trying to pursuade patrons, white patrons, to not go into the clubs.
	i am reading Charles Mingus' autobiography and am trying to locate
some of the texts in the bibliography of Mike davis' _City of Quartz_ he writes  
briefly on the subject pgs 62-64 and notes 111-116.  
	The texts that I can find as yet on the subject talk abou L.A. jazz  
artists leaving to go to new york, but they dont give much reasons why.  It is  
asumed that the New York jazz scene was just the naturtal place to go,  but  
there are other reasons for why they left.  Ornette Coleman is a prime example

	anyway if anyone can give me any leads on personal accounts or anything  
that could help me get data on the history of the L.A. Jazz scence from 1940's  
to the 1960's  It would be appereciated.

				thanks
					tag
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Whites Critical of African-Americans
Date: 8 Apr 92 07:19:33 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

arocho@acsu.buffalo.edu (Vance A. Arocho) writes:
>So how about the Italians?  They do fine, and many still maintain a
>strong Italian heritage.

>***** I don't know of any Italians who live in the ghetto; do you?

No, they escaped the Italian ghettos.  As did the Poles and others As I said,
they've made it.

>Also, they need not concern themselves with being the 'wrong color'. 

Vietnamese?


>Additionally, you are mistaken to compare one group with another. The African-
>American experience is unique and no group has had to endure so much injustice
>and suffering as they as well as being taught that they are inferior.

The Jews might dispute that.
-- 
Books rule the world, or at least those nations which are literate.  The rest
do not matter.
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:1485 alt.politics.correct:3653 soc.culture.african:1776
From: rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Whites Critical of African-Americans
Date: 9 Apr 92 19:09:09 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

arocho@acsu.buffalo.edu (Vance A. Arocho) writes:
>VA:
>>***** I don't know of any Italians who live in the ghetto; do you?

>RD:
>No, they escaped the Italian ghettos.  As did the Poles and others As I said,
>they've made it.

>***** And their skin color was never a 'disadvantage' for them.

No, they had others.  Skin color isn't the only possible disadvantage,
nor the greatest one.

>Also, were guns
>and drugs as rampant then as they are now, in the inner cities? Was crack in
>existence back then? 

Certainly not crack, probably not guns, definitely booze.  But I'd
feel as little sympathy for any of them who used drugs and didn't
succeed as I do for those who use drugs today and don't succeed.


>VA:
>>Also, they need not concern themselves with being the 'wrong color'. 

>RD:
>Vietnamese?

>***** They also have to worry about intolerance. You are implicitly comparing

>Asians have been exploited here but they were never enslaved and they always
>managed to preserve their culture.

Never enslaved?  Let's talk American West.


>You don't get it, do you? 

One of my greatest ambitions is to never "get it" in the PC sense.

-- 
Death has been proven to be 99.9 per cent fatal in laboratory rats.
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz)
Subject: Re: PROMINENT IRANIAN BAHA'I EXECUTED
Organization: AT&T Migration Systems
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 22:24:50 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.182229.20585@cco.caltech.edu> bes@cco.caltech.edu (Behnam Sadeghi) writes:
>In article <1992Apr14.020400.11492@midway.uchicago.edu> gross@befvax.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>>>While Bahais have been discriminated against in Iran, Jews have enjoyed
>>>religious freedom and are even represented in the Parliament.
>>
>>>I personally think that relatively speaking a Jew is more respected in 
>>>Iran than a Muslim is in the U.S.
>>
>>...  Do you expect anyone else to actually 
>>believe this?  
>
>Of course  (Otherwise I wouldn't have said it).
>
>>Please tell me you're not serious before the discussion 
>>of Jews in Iran becomes the topic here in t.p.m.
>
>Why not?  This subject was already a topic in t.p.m, soc.culture.
>jewish, etc. a few years ago.  Perhaps some of us need to refresh our
>memories.
>
>>The information I have about Jews in Iran does not portray Iran in 
>>a positive light at all.
>
>Can you be specific about this?  Specifically what information do you
>have about Jews in Iran which contradicts anything I said?  [My claims
>were:  1)  They enjoy perfect religious freedom, and 2) They enjoy more
>*respect* than a Muslim would in the U.S.]  I will appreciate it if 
>you provide evidence for anything you may say.
>

When I spoke with a number of the refugees from Iran who settled in
Baltimore I found that this was not true.  This included people who
had to smuggle themselves and their children across the desert,
people whose parents were not allowed to communicate with them, and
people whose parents were not allowed to send them any money (or
help with tuition) because they went to Rabbinical College.

>>...
>>But please tell me what I can and can't say without being sentenced to
>     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>death.  
> ^^^^^
>Say what your heart pleases.  We have had arguments before and I haven't
>sentenced you to death :-) .   Now, if _you_ don't sentence me to death,
>then hopefully we can both survive this discussion... :-)
>
>>Leon Gross
>
>Behnam Sadeghi,
>Muslim from Iran

_______________________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz        |    Im ain ani li mi li             |
| H_Markowitz@att.com     |    Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha      |
|_________________________|____________________________________|
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.african
From: padutton@wpi.WPI.EDU (Peter Alan Dutton)
Subject: Re: Slavery (was Re: Sexist African Males)
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 19:17:02 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.212637.2973@acsu.buffalo.edu> osele@acsu.buffalo.edu (itiakorit j osele) writes:
>
>And I would like to ask: why is it that the people you mentioned above
>are only to glad to be part of the good things [e.g medical technology]
>that they ancestors may helped bring about ? Genuine progress in human
>development can only come about if we begin to accept historical
>contributions in total both negative and positive. 
>

Sure - I'm glad that I'm here to appreciate modern medical technology, and
I'm glad that I'm here to appreciate a country without slavery. But I do NOT
take credit for those advances, just like I do not merit blame for slavery
or bubonic plague, for that matter.

Peter

Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: pprior@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Paul A Prior)
Subject: Re: Sexist African Males
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 15:44:57 GMT

In article <8APR199216025496@zeus.tamu.edu> djh4535@zeus.tamu.edu (HARRIS, DUANE J) writes:
>In article <1992Apr6.230013.24086@anasaz>, best@anasaz (Mike Best) writes...
>>  
>>  I also suggest that if compensation is handed out that the continent
>>  of Africa is also held responsible for the AF-AMs own "brothers" 
>>  were quite involved in obtaining the unfortunate future slaves of
>>  the New World.  Address this!
>
>sure, why not but their position isn't as extensive as the americans and also
>i think their involementin the inhumanity was minimal by comparison to the
> americans

Oh.  How convenient to arbitrarily pronounce that their involvement was
"minimal" -- takes away any need to address the historical realities that
include the fact that the slave business was slave -trade- with african
people trading other african people for profit.  And what defines 
the extent of involvement?  As far as I'm concerned whether ones ancestors
were on the buying or selling side it was equally wrong.  Of course 
that's not the PC thing to say...

-- 
--------pprior@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu----(614) 297-8474----------------
Paul A. Prior    Ban anchors, not reef tanks   "With friends like this,   
2nd year medical student		          who needs anemones?"
The Ohio State U. College of Medicine   Tobacco Kills- Please don't smoke!
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:1670 alt.politics.correct:3715
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct
Subject: Re: Sexist African Males
Date: 17 Apr 92 03:20:45 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson) writes:
>>Do ALL THEY CAN?  Don't white people have anything better to do? 
>>
>Well if you watch the news...apparently not.

>want to beleive what they have to say. WHY ??? Maybe you should pay
>more attention to Farakkan.

I would, but the last time I did I went out and shot a dozen jews.
And on Rosh Hoshanna, too, oh my.
-- 
Cauterize:  Made eye contact with a woman.
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Whites Critical of African-Americans
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:44:23 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

sguillo@intelhf.hf.intel.com (Stanford Guillory) writes:
>Good point, Vance.  NO, they wouldn't make it in the same numbers. I have 
>talked to literally hundreds of college-aged whites, and they are constantly
>amazed at the number of people I watched die during childhood years (14). The
>people I have come in contact with, ( and I am in no way branding the entire 
>white race), just wouldn't have cut it in my hood. Of the thousands
>of whites I have met, only about 5% would have made it in Northwest Houston.
>If that, I am being generous. VERY generous. Santa Claus isn't this generous.

Pfffft.  It was their very whiteness that made them unable to handle
it?  BS.  If they'd grown up in the same hood they would have picked
up the same abilities anyone else had.  Whether or not they'd have the
same success level I wouldn't know.    However, they would have two
advantages.  First, they couldn't fall back on the theory that
everything bad that happens to them is caused by the white man.
Second, if they attempted to excell in school they wouldn't be
attacked for trying to be white.  Although again, I don't know if this
was as true in your neighborhood as it was in mine.
-- 
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtains.
From: pnmideast@igc.org
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Date: 09 Apr 92 20:13 PDT
Subject: ADC CIVIL, HUMAN RIGHTS PANEL
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1522100002:000:2104
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!pnmideast    Apr  9 20:13:00 1992


From: <pnmideast>
Subject: ADC CIVIL, HUMAN RIGHTS PANEL

/* Written  6:36 pm  Apr  9, 1992 by adcnatl in cdp:mideast.genera */
/* ---------- "ADC CIVIL, HUMAN RIGHTS PANEL" ---------- */

ADC CIVIL, HUMAN RIGHTS PANEL

Echoing this year's Convention theme of "Civil Rights at Home,
Human Rights Abroad," a distinguished group of panelists will
address the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee on Friday,
May 1. Nadine Strossen, President of the American Civil Liberties
Union and Professor of Law at New York Law School, has served on
the board of directors of numerous human rights organizations. Ms.
Strossen will be joined by Dr. Jonathan Fine, founder of
Physicians for Human Rights, Raji Sourani, Director of the Gaza
Center for Rights and Law, and Maryam Elahi, Program Officer of
Amnesty International.

Prior to assuming her responsibilities at Amnesty International,
Ms Elahi, a graduate of The Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy,
worked as a staff attorney with The Lawyer's Committee for Human
Rights. She currently focuses on issues concerning Europe, the
Middle East, and North Africa. Dr. Fine founded Physicians for
Human Rights and served as the organization's first director. He
has participated in fifteen different human rights missions around
the world. Nadine Strossen graduated Phi Beta Kappa from Harvard-
Radcliffe and magna cum laude from Harvard Law School. In 1986 she
became one of the first three women to receive the U.S. Jaycees'
"Outstanding Young Women" award. She was elected President of the
ACLU in January, 1991. Raji Sourani, a Palestinian lawyer, helped
found and directs the Gaza Center for Rights and Law, one of the
only human rights organizations in the Gaza Strip.

Their panel will convene at 2:00, Friday, May 1 at the Crystal
Gateway Marriott in Arlington, Virginia.

This is the 12th Annual Convention of the American-Arab Anti-
Discrimination Committee, the nation's largest grassroots Arab-
American organization.  For more information, contact ADC: 4201
Connecticut Ave. NW, Washington, DC, 20008. Tel: (202)244-2990
Peacenet Address: adcnatl

Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:1477 alt.politics.correct:3650
From: john@anasaz (John Moore)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct
Subject: Re: Sexist African Males
Date: 11 Apr 92 16:24:46 GMT
Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, AZ, USA

Keywords: 

In article <1992Apr10.144402.20633@acsu.buffalo.edu> v070km6q@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (John B Schutkeker) writes:
]I have no problem with this.  It's irresponsible childbirth that puts
]people on welfare and keeps them there.  Color of the skin doesn't matter.

Actually, for blacks it tends to be irresponsible childbirth. For whites,
it tends to be abandonment through divorce. Either one is reprehensible
IMHO.

]If daddy has a reason to fear the consequences of his actions, maybe
]he'll think twice before forcing the world to support another poverty
]stricken, single paarent family. Why should my tax dollars support these
]irresponsible types?

This should also apply to mommy.


-- 
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253  (602-951-9326)
john@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
 - - Saddam Hussein... he just keeps going... and going... and going - -
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination