HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans)
Subject: Re: greetings
Organization: Cicely Public Access UNIX, Cicely, AK
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:33:12 GMT


Hi, Sher! Welcome.

I can relate to your problem with cats. I'm also terribly allergic to them,
and while I like them okay, I just can't spend time with them (or much time
in the home of anyone who cohabits with one). Alas, it sometimes seems like
you can't be really involved in the current counterculture without being
cat-oriented. :-) I mean, I see cat books in the weirdest catalogs, where
they may carry mostly environmentally-sound products or something, and about
four books, and two of them are about cats. Anyway, I have a house rabbit.
He's litter-trained like a cat, but I don't seem to be allergic to him. He's
nice -- sits still for petting, clean, quiet, etc. Not too affectionate yet,
but he's getting better; you have to wait for his moods, like a cat. I've
also read that there are definite ties between pagans and rabbits (especially
in British and European tradition) -- any info on that that anyone has, I'd
love it if you'd elaborate, because I've forgotten where I read it. 

Hope to see more of you!

Marty


=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Seems like there ought to be a way we could look each other in the eye
To see we're all in this together, and put all thoughts of victory aside.
Seems like there ought to be a way we could turn this fear into trust;
No matter what you say, there has to be a way --
Every living thing is counting on us."      

Marty Hale-Evans                                 M   @   *   O   %   8   U
89 Mass. Ave., Ste. 199, Boston, MA 02115       \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/


Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Newsgroups: alt.pagan

About 3 weeks ago, boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan) wrote:
>
>Local telephone poles and such have been plastered of late with signs
>with a big red cross, reading:
>
>	Are you ready for the rapture?
>
>	Jesus is coming
>
>	October 28, 1992


Yet another Rapture forecast bites the dust.  Our local newpaper had
a short article about it today (Oct 29th).

My suggestion:  check out the newly released video "The Rapture",
starring Mimi Rogers.  It's a dark drama about a women who is looking
for meaning in her life, latches onto Christianity, and is let down 
by it.  Then the Rapture really occurs, and it the remainder of the 
movie deals with her repsonse to it:
    Daughter: "Mommy, tell God that you love him."
    Mother:   "I *can't*."


--Lynne

----------------------
Lynne Radzykewycz
lynne@hpnst.mayfield.hp.com
From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: DAMN THIS LIE!!!!
Date: 7 Nov 92 02:17:13 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Kaos Laboratories


In article <-1364863255snx@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au>, gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick) writes...
> 
>In article <lfdj1jINNnat@news.bbn.com> dhardin@bbn.com writes:
> 
>Just as one example among many, we all know what you did to Vietnam,
>whatever reason you might have come up with for doing it, which gives
>me some insight into just how far you will go in simply obliterating
>people right off of the planet you don't happen to like, and what
>morality might be influencing your younger generations today.
> > 
>Or perhaps you are fed something different there from what we get? That
>would go some way toward explaining our different perceptions of what
>the Good Ol' US of A stands for.
> 
>--
>Gil Hardwick

	Gil, we are fed all sorts of baby-food smooth pablum about how nice 
things are in every paper and tv news show and radio news broadcast. To get 
real news, one must subscribe to foreign papers and us papers and compare 
stories. And that is if you only want to know a little about the truth and a 
lot of sweeping generalizations.

	They would have us believe that the US is still the bigest best and 
brightest country in the world, that it's only a little recession, that desert 
storm was won cleanly and only the bad guys died. We STILL don't know who shot 
Kennedy! If we stood for the things we like to ascribe to ourselves, we would 
never have supported Pol Pot, Apartheid, EL Salvador, etc. The US of A's 
government has been owned and run by corporate intrests that couldn't give a 
damn about human beings for years. The last 12 have been particularly bad. 
Remember that when Carter fired the Secret Team in `76, they just kept going, 
there where enough of them in government that they still had power, but where 
not accountable to government because thay where no longer part of it. The 
budget was hidden in the CIA's budget. So they exported terrorism and death 
with no impedences and reaped big bucks. That's modern America, Gil. Profits 
over people. Fuck you daddy, I've got mine. 
	We can only hope Clinton represents a change for the better. 


					- Ashley

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Date: 12 Nov 92 10:11:02 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1992Nov11.200419.1@fnalo.fnal.gov>, holzman@fnalo.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman) writes:
> In article <1992Nov10.233819.44616@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, 
> kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins) writes:
> 
> [lots deleted]
> 
> Several notes and question:
> 

> 1) Who sired the male?  I submit that you do not get a male 
> without there being a male to provide a y-chromosome.

Originally it was an advantageous genetic mutation.  Or in my
mythology, the goddess gave birth to him from within herself.  He is
now the carrier of that y-chromosome. 

> 2) From whence comes this "first female"?

Some say she fell from the sky, others that she has always been.  In
my mythology, she is the very universe, and we just tiny reflective
parts of her whole.  But I suppose as far as what we consider life on
earth, she would be the very first cell that has split, and changed
and grown, weaving with the fabric of this planet to become this
wonderous biosphere.  Have you read _Lives of a Cell?  I think it is a
very spiritual book.

> 3) How does pre-existence imply supremacy?

It depends on what you mean by supremacy I suppose.  To me she is
supreme because she is all and gives birth to us all.  

Note I am more a female supremacist than I am a woman supremacist.  I
don't remember if I started this out with a rant on the superiority of
women or not.  Superiority is often in how you measure it.  Women
treat me nicer than men do, on the whole.  They are less likely to
beat me up, call me names, rape me, take advantage of me, dismiss my
feelings, play power games with me, etc.  I trust their judgement more
than I do most men's.  I think women could do pretty well without men,
I don't think men would do very well without women.  Although there
are many reasons why I trust and respect women over men in most
circumstances, these are not related to any pre-existence of the
female.  It is more related to my observation that men are genrally
pretty scummy.

... stuff deleted here for space...

I didn't find your other comments to be worthy of much response.  Was
there anything in particular you really wanted to see addressed David?
I will try to answer it.

-- 
___________________________________________________________________________

Stephen R. Figgins           |  There was an old woman
kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu   |  Who lived under the hill 
PO Box 1244                  |  And if she's not gone 
Lawrence, KS 66044	     |  She lives there still
___________________________________________________________________________
From: alizard@pil.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: re: Oregon Vote Results
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 13:59:05 PST

Re: Oregon Vote Results
By: klotz #0 @lclark.edu (Gretchen Klotz) USEnet      
 
> From: klotz@lclark.edu (Gretchen Klotz)
> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
> Subject: Oregon Vote Results
> Now, what are we going to do to help since Measure 2 has passed in
> Colorado?  (And how did it happen?)
> - Gretchen

Well, there are very limited courses of action open to us.

1) Stop buying any goods and services coming out of either Colorado based
businesses or manufacturing units of multinationals based in CO.

2) Don't schedule vacations or conventions in Colorado, cancel any that are
already planned and TELL THE HOTELS AND OTHER SERVICE PROVIDERS WHY.

3) Be prepared to support any efforts going on in CO to do something about
this... most groups prefer ca$h.

Any residents of CO want to give us a list of targets for boycott? All I
can think of if Micron Technology (DRAMs) and a unit of Hewlett-Packard,
I don't know what it makes. Yet.

blessings...
                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== mea saurus, mea saurus, mea maxima saurus! ====== 93 ======
                  (slogan contributed by Jessica McGeary)
Mail to me should be sent to:       |  There are no fnords in this sig file.
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM     |  autoreply to address I posted this
     ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard     |  solstice or two for my answer.
alizard@seer.mystic.com(backup site)|              Kallisti!
From: wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: How the hell can religion and action not be related?
Date: 8 Nov 92 04:05:40 GMT
Organization: Red Wolfe @ The Wolves Den
X-Md4-Signature: bdf8a87f340416cdd80610dabbfb37c0

In article <1992Nov4.194724.11942@waikato.ac.nz> simcock@waikato.ac.nz writes:
>> If you had bothered to understand the full context of the discussion,
>> and the net.culture of the newsgroup, you'd be better equipped to not
>> make yourself look like a fool.
>
>"You are foreign, Foreigners are only allowed to talk if they learn so much
>about American fundamentalism that they are indistinguishable from Americans."
>
>	I sincerely hope that this interpretation is not correct.
>
>       If it is correct.I hope that G. Wolfe will rethink her or his stance on 
>		Non-American people, and accept that a flawed understanding of
>		American religion is not a requirement to belong to alt.pagan.

It may appear that way, but that is NOT the intent.  Considering that
the peculiar "christian" understanding of things is not just an american
problem, the need to understand the net.culture of the newsgroup is not
dependent on understanding the american viewpoint.

The comment about net.culture is also NOT a comment on any sort of
"requirements" for posting to the newsgroup.  It is merely a comment
that getting to avoid getting "flamed" it behooves a reader to have an
understanding of where most of the readers and posters are in terms of
mindsets and assumptions.

I seriously doubt that you had any problem understanding the comment
made about the appearance of "666" in the list.  And the poster did note
in a response that they were aware of the significance of that number in
the christian mythos.   What was not sufficiently realized was that the
group is definitely NOT christian in flavour, and that there was not a
need to go off and interject their own (anti-)racist rant among a group
that is quite well aware (generally) of the effects of discrimination.

Net.culture is a newly emerging concept.  Electronic communications in
the text format are only about 15 years or so old (certainly less than
25 years) and have become relatively common only in the last 8 years or
so.  Usenet is (in my opinion) approaching a "knee" in its exponential
growth, and it will undergo some tremendous changes over the next few
years.  Part of understanding net.culture is the realization of the
international aspects of the net.

I most certainly appreciate and *cherish* the international aspects of
the net, even if I do occasionally fall into a somewhat parochial
american mindset.
-- 
G. Wolfe Woodbury @ The Wolves Den, Durham NC	[This site is NOT affiliated  ]
wolfe@wolves.durham.nc.us			[with Duke University! Idiots!]
UUCP: ...!duke!wolves!wolfe      <Standard Disclaimers apply>
    Above All, we celebrate!  --Celebrate the Circle, Statement of Purpose.
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:12359 alt.magick:5676
From: sjgavula@css.itd.umich.edu (Susan Gavula)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Annoying, cloying "wann-be"s (was Pagan Bumper Stickers)
Date: 9 Nov 1992 16:12:37 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan ITD Consulting and Support Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu


Sure there are wannabe witches at sf-cons...but you can also
find many *real* ones too.  In fact, a con was the first place
I started learning about the Art.  Especially if one is
Solitaire, because of lack of any like-minded folks around,
cons can be a way to meet and talk and such...  Do beware the
wannabe's but be nice, the wannabe you meet and talk with,
just might decide to truly study and become a pagan/witch/
insert your favorite name here...

blessed be,

Susan
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: A Few Words About Election Results
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<1992Nov7.092314.28632@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>
Date: 7 Nov 1992 20:12:23 UTC

In article <1992Nov7.092314.28632@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> 
billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>jon@MITRE.org (J. E. Shum) writes:
>: In article <18882@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, 
darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie) writes:
>: > All in all, it's a stunning setback for the fascist right.
>: Yeah, but at the expense of putting the facist left in charge.
>Exactly. It is unfortunate that so many people are blind to this fact.
>Feinstein is a good example.

All right, all right, let's get some terms correct. It's Fascist Right
and Marxist Left. Now, as it turns out, the political spectrum is a
circle or cycle, like everything else. So, it becomes very difficult to
tell the difference between the extreme Fascist Right and the extreme
Marxist Left. However, terms is terms. Fascists always consider
themselves to the right of center and Marxists always consider
themselves to the left of center. Extra credit: This is actually one of
the many pairs of opposites by which we *SEE* the world known to us as
reality. Prove that they are in fact dual manifestations of a single
entity. Oh, and welcome to Persian dualism.
From: traite@eros.harvard.edu (Shirley Traite)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Pagan Bumper Stickers
Date: 4 Nov 92 22:21:00 GMT
Organization: Statistical & Data Analysis Center, Harvard University

I have the bumper sticker "We are EveryWhere"  .  I liked it the best
of all the ones I've seen, specifically because of its vagueness.
To me it is a reminder that opression/prejudice is all around
us.  I wanted to express that no matter WHO you are or
WHAT your lifestyle/religion/race/political bent etc..
as a member of the Human race you deserve to be treated with respect 
and kindness.   I guess I got it because I'm tired of feeling like 
I have to hide who I am.  I don't like being worried that if I'm
totally "out"  about my religion somehow my family 
(and especially my daughter) will be targeted for 
some cruelty.

On a totally different vein:

On Halloween afternoon my 9 year old neighbor came over to my house in costume.
"Tricker_treating already?" I asked,  "No, I came over to show you my costume 
in the daylight.  I'm on my way to Mass, all the kids are wearing costumes"
Was his reply.  Imagine my delight!  The thought stayed with me althrough
my own preparations for Samhain later that night.   Little do they know.... :)


Blessings.

___
Shirley Traite (traite@sdac.harvard.edu) |I only speak for myself.
Statistical Programmer                   |
SDAC/Biostatistics Dept.                 |
Harvard Sch. of Public Health            |
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: something dumb, BUT I figured someone here would know
Date: 5 Nov 92 23:24:04 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of California, Irvine

I know this doesn't belong here, but at least it's short.

I was in the midst of reading this group (one of the only ones I'm
subscribed to) and I recalled that I had wanted to get the issue of GQ
with Clinton and Gore on the cover; my brother saves EVERYTHING related
to campaigns, and I've never seen a presidential ticket on the front
cover of GQ.  Anyone out there got it?

Blessing and pardons for the off-topic post,
Janis
From: GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Reconciling BDSM and Pagan Beliefs
Date: 4 Nov 1992 15:32:27 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1992Nov3.215126.29626@netcom.com>,
rallen@netcom.com (Robert W. Allen) writes:
>GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon) writes:
>>Are these [safe]words often needed? Or does the dominant person try to
>>stay within certain boundaries that s/he senses are the other
>>person's limits? There is a tremendous amount of trust involved
>>here, isn't there? I would think that this has a lot to do with the
>>ecstacy achieved: to give oneself freely, in trust, and to have that
>>trust respected. Respected isn't quite the right word -- maybe
>>cherished? Sudden word drought has occured in my brain.
>
>Something much more important than word drought has occurred in your brain.
>You're starting to understand SexMagick. Yes, the top tries to stay
>within the bottom's limits. Yes, there is a tremendous amount of trust
>which does have a lot to do with creating the ecstasy. The fundamentals
>of BDSM are communication, honesty, trust and caring. When enough
>people discover this, BDSM will no longer be controversial.
>--
>Rob Allen
>rallen@netcom.com


I think what makes it controversial is the context in which it is
found: a patriarchal, dominating, hate-and-violence filled society
-- and how easy it is to see just another reflection of all those
negative things!  Janis did a great job of bringing up the issues
involved, so I won't try to reiterate them.  But it's going to be a
LONG time before BDSM isn't controversial, methinks.

But thanks for the compliment: usually word drought is the best my
brain can do.

=gg
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: rolls@cis.umassd.edu (Frank Pinto)
Subject: Yhe church and Galielo
Keywords: ; 
Organization: University of Massachusetts Dartmouth
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 20:23:58 GMT

Hello all

I;m new to this group, however, does any
one have any comment about the church finnaly
agreeing with Galileo about the center of the solar system?

respectifully

Frank Pinto
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Fight the Funny-Mentals in Washington State
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 09:00:05 GMT

klotz@lclark.edu (Gretchen Klotz) writes:
: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
:    IF WE MUST FIGHT, WE MUST WIN.
:    I'm ready to draw the line on bigotry and hatred.
: 
: --------------------------------------------------------------------

Get ready for it. In every state of the nation. Mabon and the OCA have
vowed to have more measures on the ballots in 1994. He was not just
talking about Oregon. Start getting your groups together now, you can
bet that he is doing so.

Bill
From: lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Loo seats (was: Re: hate and anger)
Date: 6 Nov 92 00:05:06 GMT
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <2AF71FFA.22618@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

>And I don't buy it that they're so intimately related.  When TMM leaves
>the seat up, I am pissed.  Hate, though?  Never in a gezillion years.

This has always puzzled me. Women always get upset at men leaving the
bog seat up. Why? It's not difficult to move it.. I have heard many,
many women complain about this as if putting the seat down was some
kind of rule all us men forget. I do not recall ever hearing a man
complain about women leaving the seat *down* though.

After all, when you leave the toilet, its 50/50 whether a man or woman
uses it next - so leaving it up is just as likely to be right as
leaving it down. And its such a *small* thing. Why does it piss off
women so much?

Janis can you enlighten me?

--
Chris Lilley
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project
Computer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Manchester, UK
Internet:   lilley@cgu.mcc.ac.uk        Janet:   lilley@uk.ac.mcc.cgu
Voice:      +44 (0)61 275 6095          Fax:     +44 (0)61 275 6040
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: How the hell can religion and action not be related?
Date: 4 Nov 1992 15:27:19 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1992Nov4.012641.19923@trl.oz.au>,
banerjee@titan.trl.OZ.AU (Arindam Banerjee) writes:

>consequences therefrom, is interesting. What is also interesting is the
>almost total ignorance and lack of interest in the genuinely pagan
>traditions of Hinduism - on what grounds I can only conjecture.
>
>Arindam

So.......don't keep us all in suspense!! Can you give us a little
summary, or a long one? I'm interested.

=gwyn
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:12680 soc.penpals:3643
From: flavius@deakin.OZ.AU (Paul Desmond)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,soc.penpals
Subject: Wanted: Penpals versed in Spiritualism
Date: 11 Nov 1992 02:56:43 GMT
Organization: Deakin University, Victoria, Australia
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cygnus.cc.deakin.oz.au

If you are interested in spiritualism, The Fourth Way, The Fifth Way etc.
I'd love to hear from you, where-ever you may be, whatever you may think.

In Love and Light
	Paul
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman)
Subject: Re: Reconciling BDSM and Pagan Beliefs
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:04:16 GMT
Distribution: usa
X-Posted-From: fnalno.fnal.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <2AF9AC3D.15536@news.service.uci.edu>, cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu 
(Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
> There is none.  But, with people growing up in a culture like ours,
> where the immediate assumption is man/dominator woman/submissive,
> getting out of that rut is impossible.  You don't break a bad habit by
> flirting with it.  Putting an unlit cogarette into the mouth of someone
> who's trying to quit only makes them stressed beyond belief, to coin a
> metaphor.

Then how do you explain all the submissive men and dominant women out there? 

How do you explain switches, like myself, who enjoy both roles?

How do you explain submissive woman and dominant men who do not enact those
scripts when they're not playing?

Might it be that the addiction model doesn't reflect what is going on in BDSM? 

Might it be that there is a qualitative difference between BDSM (even male
dom/female sub BDSM) and real-life, unexamined, patriarchy-for-real-and-not-
for-play?  I submit to you (pun intended, of course) that there is.

-- 
Daniel B. Holzman                    | Eight Words the Witch's Rede Fufill:
HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET                  | An It Harm None, Do What You Will
HOLZMAN@FNALC.FNAL.GOV.INTERNET      |
                                     | All Acts of Love and Pleasure are
Love doesn't subtract,               | Her Rituals
   it multiplies    - Heinlein       |
                                     | Speak the Word.
Disclaimer:  Fermilab's far too large to have an opinion, let alone mine.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan