HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cn577@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Cyberspace Vanguard Magazine)
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: CYBERSPACE VANGUARD Reply Card
Date: 5 Jan 1993 11:42:23 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cn577@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Cyberspace Vanguard Magazine)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


REPLY CARD FOR ISSUE ONE OF CYBERSPACE VANGUARD MAGAZINE
 
 
 
What did you think of this first issue?  Where can it be improved?  Are
there subjects you'd like to see covered?
 
 
 
Are you interested in subscribing to the paper version,
which includes photos and cartoons we can't include
in the electronic version?
-- 
                     CYBERSPACE VANGUARD MAGAZINE
           News and Views from the Science Fiction Universe
TJ Goldstein, Editor      |   Send submissions, questions, comments to
  tlg4@po.cwru.edu        |         cn577@cleveland.freenet.edu
From: nahilgendorf@honors.uoregon.edu (Nathan Hilgendorf)
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Re: S. King Ka-Ka
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 21:48:10 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon Honors College
NNTP-Posting-Host: lab8.uoregon.edu

In article <1i0oj1INNbt4@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller) writes:



>I've been a major-league Stephen King fan since he was a nobody and I
>happened to pick up a copy of Night Shift almost by chance.  But all
>these years, I've stayed away from that gunslinger series (The Drawing
>Of the Three, etc.).  Not because anyone told me those books weren't
>any good, but because they lacked the superficial horror appeal of his
>bread-and-butter scare stories.

>King is an excellent writer and I've long felt that he'd be good at
>pretty much any genre he chose, but the (apparently) Wild West theme
>of this series has always been something of a turn-off to me.  Can
>someone summarize the general premise of these stories?  I'd hate to 
>miss out on a good read because of a misconception.



>Geoff

>--

I would urge any King fan, and especially fantasy adventure fans, to read 
the Gunslinger series. Don't be misled by the title. The story really has 
very little in common with any old western novels you might have read. It 
is simply one of the best adventure stories I've ever read. 

--Nate.

Newsgroups: alt.horror
From: mccreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com (Ed McCreary)
Subject: Re: SKing: The Stand
Organization: Compaq Computer Corp.
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:49:25 GMT

In article <J7LPwB2w165w@wuntvor.pillar.com> ntraven@wuntvor.pillar.com (The Night Raven) writes:
>     ABC was suposed to have released "The Stand," as a mini-series this year.
>(A six or eight hour one, I think).. Maybe next season..
>

I read recently that Romero & Co. are scouting sites for location
shots.  Apparently they were going to use Aspen for Boulder until
the recent boycotts.

--
Ed McCreary                                               ,__o
mccreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com                       _-\_<,
"If it were not for laughter, there would be no Tao."  (*)/'(*)
Newsgroups: alt.horror
From: brea9430@mach1.wlu.ca (breadner ken u)
Subject: Re: Repost of Horror Poll
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 23:57:13 GMT

In article <1injhtINN1t5@savoy.cc.williams.edu> 96nlp@williams.edu (sublime) writes:
>
>  Well, in scope yes, it is one of King's more ambitious works.  But
>the ending, which reflects King's personal faith, in my opinion makes
>the first 1--- pages of sweat and blood seem . . . inconsequential.
>
In your opinion. Okay, fine. So how would you end a novel that gears for
that specific ending for the first 1200 pages? As I said before, this I
gotta hear.

By the way, this is open to anyone who can think up a more appropriate
ending to THE STAND. And please, folks, don't say that THE STAND should
never have been written in the first place, which seems to be norm's
implication.

>   I think in most of King's works there is a disappointing lack of
>character drive -- the protaganists are usually only victims or
>spectators to whatever happens to or around them, eager to just "get
>on" with their ordinary lives.  I think he concentrates too much on
>man's reflexive fear, discounting the "perverse" desire for wonderment
>(a reason why most people read the genre), however dark, which some
>authors like Barker eagerly investigate.

There's a word for this: realism. When something truly terrible happens to
you, do you (a) stare in wonderment and embrace it; or (b) run screaming?
I suspect for most of us the answer is in fact (b). I figure the (a)
sayers may be people like Jeffrey Dahmer...


>
>  As for the second response, why yes, I do seem to have a glaring
>lack of appreciation for the Christian faith.  Yet if you ask yourself
>about The Stand, why not have God come down and just end the novel at
>page 12, save the world there instead of making us go through a
>thousand and a half pages of text?  I suppose that would sort of
>dampen the suspense, but it would save a lot of time.

Ask that on the christian newsgroups and you will get a variety of
responses, most having to do with trial, tribulation, and faith, which
just coincidentally is what our lives comprise. Faith, by the way, need
not be in God. I am not a Christian myself, but I can appreciate the
philosophy behind the religion, which is something King uses frequently.

>  Basically, if you're going to include God in a book, you'd better
>include the Devil too.  It balance things a bit, don't you agree?

Who was Randall Flagg? "The last magician of rational thought, gathering
the tools of technology against us" (if I have my Glenn Bateman right).
Mother Abagail called him Satan's Imp. That's close enough to the devil
for me.


-- 
Ken Breadner          |Wilfrid Laurier University, Waterloo, Canada
brea9430@mach1.wlu.ca |"Life is what happens when you're busy making other
(the BREADbox...)     |plans" --John Lennon
Disclaimer: you mean somebody's taking something I said SERIOUSLY?
Newsgroups: alt.horror
From: anna@psych.toronto.edu (Anna Filippone)
Subject: Koontz
Organization: P.S.A. (Psychology Student's Association)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 01:54:42 GMT

Hi.   

I am no newcomer to horror fiction.  "The Tell-Tale Heart" was read to me
in grade 5, I've read most of Stephen King's stuff, am a great fan of Harlan
Ellison, and I hold Clive Barker's creations close to my still beating heart.
One writer I haven't touched, though, is Koontz.  What book do you recommend
me to start with?  Which one will suck me into its terrifying pages with no
chance or wish to escape?  Or should I pass him over altogether?

Anna
-- 
			  "Mark but this flea, and mark in this,
Anna Filippone		   How little that which thou deniest me is: 
anna@psych.toronto.edu 	   Me it sucked first, and now sucks thee,  
			   And in this flea our two bloods mingled be." - Donne
From: pmarlowe@noncomf.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (philip marlowe)
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Re: Repost of Horror Poll
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 02:51:47 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: darkpark

96nlp@williams.edu (sublime) writes:

> 
> 
>   Realism in this genre?  A contradiction, I think.  What is written,
> the reactions of "screaming in terror", are all hypothetical.  You
> have an element of the supernatural, which you try to relate with what
> is natural.   But I think realism is a word we must throw out once we
> turn the first page.

 Wrong-o. Without realism to provide foil to the weirdness, the whole 
project just becomes masturbation and floats away.


> 
>   In fact, throw me in with Dahmer; I quite frankly find fiction where
> the horrors are embraced (and yes, there are people out there, and
> stories to convey this "twisted" desire) much more exciting and fresh.
> If you want realism, I suggest you pick up a Dickens novel, or any
> other book which falls under real "L"-iterature, as you put it.  The
> very fact that you say The Stand "transcends" the horror genre is
> getting to my point: why transcend it?  Why not embrace it? Is being
> catergorized as Big "L" literature so wonderful?  I see a bunch of
> old, withered scholars sitting round a table saying, "Why yes, I think
> Steve has finally made it to the big league.  Let's take him seriously
> now."  Who the fuck are these people, anyway?

 Funny you should mantion Dickens. He was the Steve King of his time, 
writing, big, accessable, popular books that were not in vogue among your 
stuffy old men.
 Why should horror try to be more than JUST horror? Because horror is 
such a LIMITED genre, too often relying on severed heads (slasher movies) 
or nifty atmosphere (H.P. Lovecraft) as a crutch to avoid dealing with 
any REAL issues. Human fears become, in Clive Barker's words, "metaphors 
made flesh", and are attacked in the abstract. Leading one to ask the 
obvious question "why not deal with the problem at its source?".


> 
>   The main opinion I was trying to express is just that King's
> protaganists never move the book: it's always the dog, or the psycho
> lady, or the clown, or the vampires.
>   I think Barker's novels are much more exhilarating, by the fact that
> his characters push the plot by their own actions; they WANT what
> happens; they have ambitions, and desires, as well as fears.  Unreal,
> you might say?  I think the opposite.

 Barker's an interesting writer who's done some good stuff, but his 
biggest weakness is the one you seem to like. The man's characters are 
flat and unbelievable, and he seems to be more interested in the horror 
than the humanity which must endure it.
 "Hellraiser" is, I think, Barker-ish to the tenth power, with all of his 
skills and problems made very obvious. Note how Kirsty, the 
quasi-protagonist, is as empty as empty can be.



marlowe

------------------------------------------------------------------darkpark BBS
pmarlowe@noncomf.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (philip marlowe)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky alt.horror:5438 rec.arts.movies:36667
From: parryh@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Howell Parry)
Newsgroups: alt.horror,rec.arts.movies
Subject: HELLRAISER 3
Keywords: Hellraiser 3
Date: 5 Jan 93 15:31:30 GMT

Can anyone out there give me any information about "Hellraiser 3" ?

Has it been released in the US yet ?

If so, what's it like ?

Here in the UK, I've been waiting for it to be released for ages now.
Does anyone know when it'll be released here in the UK ?

Please e-mail me or reply on USENET with any info you may have.

Thanks,

  Howell.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Howell Parry, 3rd yr CS & MT student,

University of Manchester, England.

E-mail: parryh@uk.ac.man.cs.t9
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
! Howell Parry. 3rd yr Comp Sci & Maths, Manchester Uni, Uk       !
! E-mail:    parryh@uk.ac.man.cs.p4                               !
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: phlegm@cs1.bradley.edu (Kevin Bourrillion)
Subject: New King out on video
Organization: Silvery Urban Deity
Date:  8 Jan 93 05:02:30 GMT

You may have seen two new Stephen King "movies" on the New Release
shelf at your local bookstore called _Sleepwalkers_ and _The Golden
Years_.  I decided to shell out the bucks for 'em and tell ya what they
were worth.

Sleepwalkers was not bad at all!  It tells the story of a
mother-and-son team of, well, Sleepwalkers, who move to some hick town
in Indiana.  (Aren't all towns in Indiana hick towns? =]  )  I won't
give away any more, but even though the movie was only 90 min. long I
thought it was worthwhile.  Plus, it has cameo appearances from Clive
Barker, Mark Hammill, John Landis(?), and King himself.  The dude from
the Beauty and the Beast TV series and a girl from Twin Peaks (I
think... but who cares, she's a babe!) are also in it...

Whatever The Golden Years was, it sucked!  Truthfully speaking, we
only got through the first hour of it before we had to turn it off,
but I think we saw enough.  I heard somewhere that it was a television
show, and indeed that was what it seemed like, but the box didn't make
that clear.  In my opinion and that of my friend who watched it with
me, the actors couldn't act, the director couldn't direct, and the
whole story moved along at a snail's pace!  I'd say skip it, but if
anyone out there has seen all of it, let me know if it gets any better
after the first hour!  (It is four hours long in entirety)

Oh... and as a side comment, we also rented _The Dead Zone_ and found
it to be excellent!  Christopher Walken plays Johnny Smith and Martin
Sheen is Greg Stillson.. whether or not you've read the book, I
recommend the movie.

Ah well... just my 2... er... just my 6 cents.  :)


A

--
           Whether you spit or swallow, Phlegm is outta here!!!
 phlegm@bucs1.bradley.edu   phlegm@camelot.bradley.edu   WWIVnet: 17@4951
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Better not take a dog on the space shuttle, because if he sticks his head
out when you're coming home his face might burn up."   -- Jack Handey
From: vcz40@jester.usask.ca (Vanessa C. Zondervan)
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Re: SKing: The Stand
Date: 8 Jan 1993 05:28:19 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
NNTP-Posting-Host: jester.usask.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

Ed McCreary (mccreary@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com) wrote:
:>In article <J7LPwB2w165w@wuntvor.pillar.com> ntraven@wuntvor.pillar.com (The Night Raven) writes:
:>>     ABC was suposed to have released "The Stand," as a mini-series this year.
:>>(A six or eight hour one, I think).. Maybe next season..
:>>
:>
:>I read recently that Romero & Co. are scouting sites for location
:>shots.  Apparently they were going to use Aspen for Boulder until
:>the recent boycotts.
:>
Knowing the 'where' is interesting, but does anybody know the 'who', as in
'who's going to be in it??'

 --
 /-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
 | 1993: Doctor Who  is Thirty Years Old                                   |
 |       Jethro Tull is Twenty-Five Years Old                              |
 |                                                                         |
 |	 IAN ANDERSON FOR THE NEXT DOCTOR WHO!!!!!                         |
 |	 IAN ANDERSON FOR THE NEXT DOCTOR WHO!!!!!                         |
 |    									   |
 |	 Nathan Elke, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada                       |
 |	 (Never mind what the name at the top says)                        |
 \-------------------------------------------------------------------------/
From: pmarlowe@noncomf.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (philip marlowe)
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Re: Clive on Letterman
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 93 14:03:24 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: darkpark


RE: good Clive Barker books

 Too bad you didn't like "Weaveworld", as that one's probably my 
favourite.

 In any case, you should start where I did, with "The Damnation Game". 
It's short, tight, and the most straight-out "horror" novel that Clive' 
ever done. Check out "The Great and Secret Show" next, followed by 
"Cabal" and ALL of the "Books of Blood" before coming to "Imagica". 

 The last book, I think, should only be read by someone who understands 
and appreciates Barker's vision. There's some good stuff there, true, but 
the thing's too goddamn LONG, and a lot of it doesn't work.

marlowe

------------------------------------------------------------------darkpark BBS
pmarlowe@noncomf.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (philip marlowe)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.horror
From: jholstei@scott.skidmore.edu (jeremy holstein)
Subject: Re: Stephen King: Dark Tower Series
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 23:46:28 GMT

gandalf@sku.lost.com writes:
> 
> 	I was wondering if anyone knows when Stephen King will publish the 
> 	next book(s) in the DarkTower series?
> 

Whenever he gets around to writing it.

Seriously, as a fan of the series from way back when it was being
serialized in the Magazine of Science Fiction Fantasy, I've learned
not to expect new volumes very soon.  The first was serialized over a
three year period, 1978-1981.  The second was published in 1988.  The
third, 1991.  The next one, who knows?
  
  Last I heard, it was scheduled for Dec. 1993, but I'd also heard
from another source that it had been delayed til' 1994 due to Delores
Clayborne.  ANyone confirm or deny this?  Either way, the paper back
won't be released until monthes afterward so you have to wait til' at
least 1994 unless you're willing to spend $40 for the hardback (I
have, and they're worth it.   BEAUTIFUL books...  Donald M. Grant
knows what he's doing...)
-- 
This is my sig file.
Xref: sparky alt.horror:5453 rec.arts.books:24145 rec.arts.sf.written:17095
From: chuahl@ocf.berkeley.edu (Chua HakLien)
Newsgroups: alt.horror,rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Fear According to Card: Dread, Terror and Horror
Followup-To: alt.horror
Date: 7 Jan 1993 09:49:50 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandstorm.berkeley.edu

In the anthology _The_Changed_Man_, Orson Scott Card writes:-
"/Dread/ is the first and strongest of the three kinds of fear. Dread is
that tension, that waiting that comes when you know there is something to
fear but you have not identified what it is. The fear that comes when you
first realize that your spouse should have been home an hour ago; when
you hear a strange sound in your baby's bedroom; when you realize that a
window you are sure you closed is now open, the curtains billowing, and
you're alone in the house."

"Terror only comes when you see the thing you're afraid of. The intruder is
coming at you with a knife. The headlights coming towards you are clearly
in your lane. The Klansmen have emerged from the bushes and one of them
is holding a rope. [...] ..bad as it is, it is better than dread in this
respect. Now, at least, you know the face of the thing you fear. You know
its borders, its dimensions. You know what to expect.

"Horror is the weakest of all. After the fearful thing has happend, you 
see its remainder, its relices. The grisly, hacked-up corpse. Your 
emotions range from nausea to pity for the victim. And even your pity is
tinged with revulsion and disgust, ultimately you reject the scene and
deny its humanity; with repetition, horror loses its ability to move you
and, to some degree, dehumanizes the victim and therefore dehumanizes you."

Agreements? It certainly is an interesting way to think about fear. WW Jacob's
_The_Monkey's_Paw_ is a classic tale of dread, while Poe's _The_Pit_And_The_
Pendulum_ more a tale of terror, while King's _Survivor_Type_ ( from
his collection _Skeleton_Crew_) was definitely a tale of horror.
( Revolting, but not scary... [ SPOILER follows ] )

( It's about this guy who ends up on an island and starts eating his own
body parts for sustenance. Not very nice..... )

What stories/movies have really filled you with dread? 

Chua
+==+
Newsgroups: alt.horror
From: ferejohn@leland.Stanford.EDU (john ferejohn)
Subject: Re: Repost of Horror Poll
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 23:06:06 GMT

In article <1ipftbINN5kn@savoy.cc.williams.edu> 96nlp@williams.edu (sublime) writes:
>  Flat and unbelievable are better words to describe the "monsters" if
>you will, in King's novels.  They fall into the cliche of being
>incarnations of pure evil, unleashing their awesome fury on the middle
>class of America.  It's all black and white, clear cut as to who's the
>good or who's the bad.  Essentially, I find King's protaganists to be
>simply too boring.  A foil to the weirdness?  Yes, but a predictable
>foil, one which leads to predictable endings.

Let's not overgeneralize.  Not all of King's stuff is as clear cut as
The Stand or It.  Particularly the early stuff.  Specifically I point to
the first two Bachman Books(Book s King wrote under the pen namme Bachman), 
Rage(or Getting it On) and The Long Walk.  The characters in this certainlt
are not clear cut good or evil...

I agree that the end of The Stand was something of a cop out tho...
But, then, find me one Steven King novel(like 200+ pages) with a good ending.
I think It wins for the silliest ending...
spoiler follows!

I mean, this ultra powerful bad thing has a physical body you can just walk up
and kill?

Silly.
           -Chris
Xref: sparky alt.horror:5498 rec.arts.sf.written:17380 rec.arts.books:24525
From: zen@wet.UUCP (Jim Steele)
Newsgroups: alt.horror,rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Stoker Award Winners
Date: 10 Jan 93 22:50:38 GMT
Followup-To: alt.horror
Organization: Wetware Diversions, San Francisco


Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: berry@ccsua.ctstateu.edu
Subject: Re: Heart of Midnight (minor spoilers)\
Followup-To: ALT.HORROR.WEREWOLVES
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Distribution: news
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:05:17 GMT

I MUST HAVE FORGOTEEN THAT,YEAH HE IS A NATURAL WOLF-WERE AHHHHHH  BUT I PERFER
A FULL WEREWOLF








In article <CFd=5h_@engin.umich.edu>, ferret@synecdoche.engin.umich.edu (kenneth r lipka) writes:
> 
> In article <1hqt20INN6ct@aludra.usc.edu>, fields@aludra.usc.edu (Canis) writes:
>> In article <1992Dec29.154002.1@ccsua.ctstateu.edu> berry@ccsua.ctstateu.edu writes:
>> 
>> question. He's a natural lycanthrope ...
> 
>> As a werewolf story, ...
> 
> 
> 	Just one more minor spoiler, that I think you missed.  Towards the end
> of the book (and before the last 75 pages or so), Harkon Lukas tells "our hero" (Casimir) that he is a *_wolfwere_* NOT a werewolf.  This meaning that his natural form is that of a wolf, and he is cursed(?) to be able to change into a man; whereas the werewolf is the other way round.  I don't have my copy here at school, so I can't give a page reference.  But you might want to go and check for this reference as it will be a few weeks before I can get the book here.
> 
> 	Ken Lipka
> 	ferret@engin.umich.edu
From: fields@aludra.usc.edu (Canis)
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
Subject: Re: Don't dream of quitting now
Date: 11 Jan 1993 19:13:50 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

In article <1993Jan7.140637.2351@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_coolidgejs@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>Does anyone have any interesting dreams about lycanthropy? 

Yeah - interesting - you could say that <grin>. In quite a few of my dreams, 
I'll be participating in a normal activity - talking with friends, for
example - and when I begin to walk away, it takes a few seconds for me to
realize that I'm walking away *on all fours*! Then there've been a few 
where I'm in a predicament with others - y'know, flesh-eating zombies
walking around, stuff like that <grin> - and to help 'save the day', I turn 
into a werewolf.

					-Lanny.

Lanny Fields
fields@aludra.usc.edu
Canis

"To were is wolfen, to forgive, lupine."
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Friday, 8 Jan 1993 21:16:21 EST
From: Straight into darkness <IO20557@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
Subject: Re: Don't dream of quitting now

Hey could someone repost the ways to become a werewolf and whether they
do or do not have conscious control of themselves (could you please
cite sources) think I might give some of the recipes a try!
thanx   -tc
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: dionne@bank.ecn.purdue.edu (Dionne E Nelson)
Subject: Re: Wolf
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 05:15:11 GMT

>[Is this group still alive?  Yes/no you be the judge. to vote yes
>write a note to vote no kill a cat]
Keep the group! And the cats, they're fun to chase! (and pet when human)

*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
*  Dionne Elizabeth Nelson        *  Stay cool at all times,                  *
*  dionne@bank.ecn.purdue.edu     *   uncool dudes get stomped on.            *
*  317 495 7870                   *                                           *
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