HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: York University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 06:35:43 EST
From:         MMORSE@YORKVM1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Music Theory Thread

While I sympathize very deeply with the disgust for pedantry you
folks have been demonstrating, it's not true to say that there are
no rules in classical composition. The true art of keyboard playing--
what we would call composition--was taught to all musicians, and did
consist of the rules of counterpoint, later supplemented by the principles
of harmony. That these rules were derived from the practice of composers
such as Palestrina (not so much JSB, by the way, until much later) is
true to some extent, but not the entire story. The rules attempted to
guide the novice in learning a craft which had some quite specific and
exacting social purposes. The ban against parallel fifths and octaves
is meant to eliminate the awkward feeling that the number of moving parts
has suddenly diminished from 4 to 3 (for example). Since the aim of
sacred music is to raise our voices to praise God, it is unseemly for
one of those voices to disappear, even for a single note.
Of course this way of looking at things is very alien now, to say the
least, but it's far from being rules for rules' sake. The deeper meaning
of the whole system became a kind of ladder for the ear, something which
one could climb up and then leave behind, once properly trained. Composers
of real weight in that tradition continue to defend it as a training. How
would it be possible to cultivate the tremendous aural sensitivity necessary
hear the part-motion in _Le Sacre_ or _Pierrot Lunaire_ without a lengthy
apprenticeship in part-writing? At least as far back as Beethoven, that's
what all those "rules" had become, a school for disciplining the ear to
control the audition of complex motion.
Are these rules "necessary" today? Well, is it necessary to control
counterpoint and harmony any more? Try thinking of the rules in a different
way: instead of "Do not write parallel fifths & octaves," make it say
"In order to learn solidly and thoroughly, test your aural capacity by
finding ways to harmonize which do not use fifths/octaves." This is what
musicians from CPE Bach to Gershwin did, and it does not seem to have
done them harm. Those hacks who think that rules are recipes for musicality
are dickweeds in any case; if they didn't make trashy music using Palestrina-
rules, they'd find some other way to do it. You can't blame the entire
system for the pedants & pencil pushers of the world..
Michael
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 08:29:44 MST
From:         cinnamon girl <watson@HG.ULETH.CA>
Subject:      someone shit in my cornflakes this morning

alright,

who's the dickhead with the full mailbox?!  *growl*

unlaid,
libby
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:25:50 CST
From:         Paul Heroy <HEROY@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Bill Stewart/Scofield

On Sat, 23 Jan 1993 12:14:35 -0600 Jeff Beer said:
>
>And I don't mean Bruford being the Dream team.  For instance, go hear
>John Scofield live.  They have a drummer named Bill Stewart.  Who the
>hell has heard of him, but who can be solid with his group as well as
>he can?  When has Bruford ever been in the face of his soloists the way
>Stewart does with Scofield and Lovano?  When you talk about jazz
>drumming, that is what you have to talk about doing.

I saw Sco & Co. here last fall - incredible show. I was with the 2 jazz DJ's
at our local college station, plus a couple of other jazzfan friends - we all
agreed it was one of the best shows we'd seen. You're right, Stewart was great
and none of us had heard of him until we read an interview with Sco in the
local paper where he raved about Stewart. He's what, 23, 24? Been playing with
Sco for a few years now, so he wasn't much older than Tony Williams was when
he got his start with Miles. Geez, what a great band that was - they had a
really tight, evil sound - it took 'em a few tunes to really 'lock in' but
when they did, Dennis Irwin on bass and Stewart were like a single instrument.
And Lovano and Sco obviously were very familiar with each other, trading licks
back and forth and building tension. I was about to jump out of my chair the
whole show!

Paul
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Return-Path: <SYSMGR@cbos.uc.edu>
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 09:30:00 -0800
From:         SYSMGR@CBOS.UC.EDU
Subject:      Recipient mailbox is full. Returning message to sender

> >This is my first post to this list...so be gentle...;)

>   Ha!  Yeah, right.

> >I like a majority of different styles of music, I find something worthy in
> >every type of music out there.  I mostly listen to what people deem
> >"Alternative" (i.e. Smiths, Concrete Blonde, Depeche Mode, Pet Shop Boys,
> >etc...), but I've been known to like groups and artists diverse such as
> >Amy Grant, Mary Chapin-Carpenter, Pink Floyd, and Metallica.

>   I've always been amused by the folks who say "I have really broad
> tastes in music, I like all kinds of rock."

>                             -Tim

Those were the artists that popped into my head Tim.  Lets see, I love
anything that Verdi has written, I love Motzart, Liszt, Gershwin, love all
the Rogers and Hammerstein musicals, a big Perry Como fan, a big Sinatra
fan, a big Placido Domingo fan, and I like Ice-T too...you should see my
album collection...its quite...unique...
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 11:48:00 -0800
Comments:     <Parser> W: Invalid RFC822 field - "And I'd like to remind Scott
              that it's pointless to blame "capitalism" for". Rest of header
              flushed.
From:         SYSMGR@CBOS.UC.EDU
Subject:      Recipient mailbox is full. Returning message to sender

David

"Awful serious this morning, huh?"
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:18:57 EST
From:         Peter=Neenan%NetAd%HSRD@HSRD.SOWO.UNC.EDU
Subject: Re: Triangulation
Comments: To: QUALRS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

For an example of triangulation in an evaluation research design, see my
article:

Neenan, P.A. & Bowen, G.L. (1991) Multimethod assessment of a child care
demonstration project for AFDC recipient families: The genesis of an
evaluation.  Evaluation Review 15,2 219-232.

Peter Neenan
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:03:16 EST
From:         Al Futrell <AWFUTR01@ULKYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Coding in qualitative analysis
              22 Jan 1993 15:48:47 GMT from <tgee@ALFRED.CARLETON.CA>

Travis:  The following point you make is interesting.  Are you
         quantifying some measure to determine whether or not you
         have committed these errors or are you using Type I and
         Type II as metaphors for the errors that a qualitative
         approach (researcher) might make?
>................................................ That is why in my
>study, I took my conclusions not only to some of the people that I
>interviewed, but some people who had *not* been interviewed. It
>controlled for the possibility of both Type I and Type II errors.
>  Both of these types of error are enhanced when we do not refer back
>to the source of the data because a) our unique experiences as
>researchers can result in latent "meanings" that aren't really there,
>and b) the unique experiences of the interviewees cannot be brought to
>bear on our conclusions.
>


---
Al Futrell, awfutr01@ulkyvm.louisville.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 08:44:19 -0500
From:         hrosenba@VMSPOP.UCS.INDIANA.EDU
Subject:      Re: bibliography software
Comments: To: qualrs-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

Don Cunningham asks:

>A bit off the topic, but does anyone have recommendations
>about software for storing and generating bibliographies in various
>formats?  I'm Mac based, but maybe the group would
>profit from hearing recommendations of both Mac and PC based
>software -especially those that can transport across.

A good print source for comparison is "Bibliography Formatting
Software" written by Sue Stigleman in 1991.  From the Institute
for Academic Technology, University of North Carolina at Chapel
Hill.

Contents:

What is Bibliography Formatting Software?
Choosing a Program: The Eight Key Questions

Appendices

Appendix I: 35 Bibliography Formatters: The Eight
Key Questions Answered
Appendix II: Papyrus, Pro-Cite and Reference Manager:
A Comparison
Contacts
Bibliography
About the Author

All in all, a good piece of work.

                                                        Howard.




.               Howard Rosenbaum
 .              hrosenba@indiana.edu
  .             School of Library and Information Science
   .            Indiana University
    .           Bloomington, Indiana 47405 USA
     .          812-855-6268
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Sat, 23 Jan 1993 10:06:37 PST
From:         David Morgan <HJDM@PSUORVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Triangulation

  Thanks to the 30+ people who requested a copy of my think piece on using
qualitative methods to improve the content of survey items. Now I am hoping
for interesting feed back from you all.
  In the mean time, I wondered if anyone was interested in starting a more
general discussion on the broader topic of triangulation?
  For myself, I don't such truncated uses of qualitative methods as
improving survey items as a form of triangulation. Instead, I generally
reserve that term for research that uses more than method to address the
same basic research issues. (Using qualitative methods to improve the
content of surveys is more a case of compensating for a known weakness
within a particular method, but sill relying on that single method as your
only way of addressing the research issues.)
  My sense is that a lot of people think triangulation is a good thing,
in the abstract. But in practice it often seems to be more trouble than it
is worth. Also, although this is not my area of expertise, the philosophical
issues that it raises seem to be more difficult than some of the early,
optimistic views would have had us believe.
  I'll be happy to share a couple of my own success and failure stories about
triangulation and I for one would be interested in hearing about others
views and experiences. Anyone else interested in this topic?
==>David Morgan hjdm@PSUORVM
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Organization: University of Innsbruck, Austria
Priority: normal
X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R5).
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Sun, 24 Jan 1993 20:42:10 GMT+0100
From:         "Michael Schratz, Uni Innsbruck" <Michael.Schratz@UIBK.AC.AT>
Subject:      Re: Triangulation
Comments: To: WSCOTT@WOOSTER.BITNET, QUALRS-L@UGA.BITNET

TRIANGULATION SEEMS A TOPIC WELL WORTH DISCUSSING
I MAINLY KNOW IT FROM CLASSROOM RESEARCH: I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN
FINDING OUT MORE APPLICATIONS OF IT>
MICHAEL SCHRATZ
UNIVERSITY OF INNSBRUCK
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:30:32 -0500
Reply-To:     aa248@yfn.ysu.edu
From:         Nicholas Sturm <aa248@YFN.YSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: CITIZEN PARTICIPATION
Comments: To: QUALRS-L@UGA.bitnet

>
>Gary (and others) may find some value in a volume by Lawrence W. Green and
>Marshall W. Kreuter, HEALTH PROMOTION PLANNING: AN EDUCATIONAL AND ENVIRON-
>MENTAL APPROACH, 2nd ed. (Toronto: Mayfield Publishing Company, 1991).  A
>core principle of the book is that citizen participation is morally and
>practically necessary for the development and sustainability of effective
>programs.  Chapter 8, especially, has numerous guidelines and examples,
>along with a nice bibliography, on how to get citizen participation to
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>work.
 ^^^^

  I recall two such efforts in this community during the last several years.
I participated in the first which was basically a citizens review committee
to comment on proposed federal grants to a multicounty area.  The number of
volunteers was fairly large--some 75-100 came to meetings once monthly.
There was a greater committee (of selected politically active individuals --
about 15-20 but perhaps 50% attendance) that met after each public meeting.

It soon became evident that the open committee was designed to satisfy a
federal requirement of citizen imput.  The small groups voted on what projects
would be applied for.

During this same period, or for the first couple of years rather, each
citizen members was sent a copy of each proposal and asked for input on
possible environmental problems of various kinds.  That seemed much more
useful (although whether the comments were read remains unknown).  It was
decided that this generated too much material to review by the pair clerical
board so it was eliminated.

I quit.

  The other was mayor's citizens committee.  One of my coworkers was on this
small committee of about five that met once weekly (rarely oftener) to review
and offer comments about administrative proposals and council proposals for
ordinances.  Large the committee thought it was charged with offering advise
on perceived environmental consequences of proposals.  After their suggests
were "accepted" and regularly ignored for almost five years, the attendance
rapidly declined.  The committee may still exist, but it neither meets nor
has replaced members.

  My general impression.  I'm not much inclined to believe that governmental
agencies (in this country) have any significant desire for information that
might alter their (govt. employee) views.  I suspect such a study should focus
rather closely on whether citizen input actually alters actions, before one
makes much effer to judge the effectiveness of different minority input.

>
>George Balch
>u08812@uicvm
>
>

--
Nicholas Sturm, 4037 Ward Beecher, 410 Wick Ave., Youngstown, Ohio 44555
  * aa248@yfn.ysu.edu *
From: cids05@vaxa.strath.ac.uk (Dr Stephen K Tagg)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Subject: Re:      Re: Coding in qualitative analysis
Date: 26 Jan 93 11:32:41 GMT
Organization: Univ of Strathclyde, GLASGOW, SCOTLAND

I believe your discussions may be helped by a little application of the
logic behind some of the grander theories in scaling and testing..
(facet theory and generalizability theory fyi)

I believe any research is an overlap of a series of samples (purposive sample
not statistical) of various "universes of content"
Including:
	Informants
	Things researchers might ask informants to do (including answer quest)
	Ways that researchers get informants to inform
	meanings for informants
	meanings for researchers
	meanings for the market for research publication
I don't think it is possible for the sampling of each universe to be perfect
(ie there's reliability/validity issues): effectively there are cost/benefit
optimizations to make. Unfortunately a lot of research design consists of
<<lets re-do famous-article's research except tweaking this attribute>>
and so the whole body of research has no chance of being representative of the
universes of interest because previous researcher's purposive sampling
compromises are perpetuated..

Trouble is no one has the resources to design an ideal coding system first
time; but can we be sure that research as a whole is moving in that direction
or is it in danger (like '60s abnormal/socal psychology) of gaining momentum in
a search that isn't going in the right direction.
--
  Dr Stephen K Tagg                  
Bsc in Psychology, PhD in Architecture Lecturer, Department of Marketing   IT &
Stats for Marketing, Consumer Research Univ of Strathclyde, GLASGOW       
Mental Maps, Multidimensional Scaling, CSCW G4 0RQ, SCOTLAND Tel
041-552-4400x2409 Fax 552 2802 Email s.k.tagg@uk.ac.strath
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
From: tgee@alfred.carleton.ca (Travis Gee)
Subject: Re: Coding in qualitative analysis
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 02:54:19 GMT

In <QUALRS-L%93012213081569@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> Al Futrell <AWFUTR01@ULKYVM.BITNET> writes:

>Travis:  The following point you make is interesting.  Are you
>         quantifying some measure to determine whether or not you
>         have committed these errors or are you using Type I and
>         Type II as metaphors for the errors that a qualitative
>         approach (researcher) might make?
-----point not repeated--------

     My use of "Type I" and "Type II" just referred to the *kind* of
errors that were being made, with no implication abut  statistical
measures. (Some were used in my study, but I used a pretty minimalist
approach to stats, at least by today's number-crunching standards.)
The key point is that qualitative methods can be prone to such errors,
because we make assertions based on data. In the spirit of this group
I am loath to require quantification of such errors and am rather more
interested in the form of the errors we researchers can make.
     Reviewing the >snippet above, I would also like to comment on the
word "metaphor".  I think it's a bit strong.  Type I and Type II
errors *can* have probabilistic statements made about them in some
contexts. However, it is the *nature* of the error (i.e., saying it's
there when it's not, or vice-versa) to which we refer. Thus, in point
of fact I would hazard a guess that the requirement of quantification
to which I referred in the preceding paragraph is actually an artefact
of our deference to statistics and not at all necessary.
    Hope I said this all in something resembling correct English....

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
Travis Gee ()  tgee@ccs.carleton.ca     ()
           ()  tgee@acadvm1.uottawa.ca  ()        ()()()()
           ()                           ()              ()
           ()                           ()()()()()()()()() 
Recent government figures indicate that 43% of all statistics
are utterly useless. 
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Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 07:12:14 -0500
From:         ARNOLD@UNCA.EDU
Subject:      Re: Educators as Inquirers

Action Inquiry is being used instead of research in many settings because
of the negative feelings some teachers have about "research" carried out
at universities that is unconnected to the reality of the classroom.
Please keep the idea of educators as inquirers alive in this network!
Arnold@UNCA.BITNET
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Sat, 23 Jan 1993 20:36:38 -0500
Reply-To:     aa248@yfn.ysu.edu
From:         Nicholas Sturm <aa248@YFN.YSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Coding in qualitative analysis
Comments: To: QUALRS-L@UGA.bitnet

>
>In <QUALRS-L%93012213081569@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> Al Futrell <AWFUTR01@ULKYVM.BITNET>
>writes:
>
>>Travis:  The following point you make is interesting.  Are you
>>         quantifying some measure to determine whether or not you
>>         have committed these errors or are you using Type I and
>>         Type II as metaphors for the errors that a qualitative
>>         approach (researcher) might make?
>-----point not repeated--------
>
>     My use of "Type I" and "Type II" just referred to the *kind* of
>errors that were being made, with no implication abut  statistical
>measures. (Some were used in my study, but I used a pretty minimalist
>approach to stats, at least by today's number-crunching standards.)
>The key point is that qualitative methods can be prone to such errors,
>because we make assertions based on data. In the spirit of this group
>I am loath to require quantification of such errors and am rather more
>interested in the form of the errors we researchers can make.
>     Reviewing the >snippet above, I would also like to comment on the
>word "metaphor".  I think it's a bit strong.  Type I and Type II
>errors *can* have probabilistic statements made about them in some
>contexts. However, it is the *nature* of the error (i.e., saying it's
>there when it's not, or vice-versa) to which we refer. Thus, in point
>of fact I would hazard a guess that the requirement of quantification
>to which I referred in the preceding paragraph is actually an artefact
>of our deference to statistics and not at all necessary.
>    Hope I said this all in something resembling correct English....

  All sound a reasonable use to me.  'f course my classroom years are
far away and I'm associating these with the concepts of alpha and beta
errors.  Trust it's close to the same thing.

>
>((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
>Travis Gee ()  tgee@ccs.carleton.ca     ()
>           ()  tgee@acadvm1.uottawa.ca  ()        ()()()()
>           ()                           ()              ()
>           ()                           ()()()()()()()()()
>Recent government figures indicate that 43% of all statistics
>are utterly useless.
>
>

--
Nicholas Sturm, 4037 Ward Beecher, 410 Wick Ave., Youngstown, Ohio 44555
  * aa248@yfn.ysu.edu *
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:00:03 -0500
Reply-To:     aa248@yfn.ysu.edu
From:         Nicholas Sturm <aa248@YFN.YSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: fyi
Comments: To: QUALRS-L@UGA.bitnet

>
>They sent that out broadcast.  I got a copy on a list devoted to
>bee keeping.  (Yes, I read about bee keeping.)
>
>It's a great idea save for one problem.  Nobody (to the first decimal
>place, anyway) will want to talk to highschool kids or teachers.  They
>don't really want to talk to their own students.

  Must be a very bad day.  Hope you feel better soon.    :-)   You do
  make an important point, but < 1 per 1000 seems a little strong.  We
  still have about 5-10% that talk regularly with students.  (Now if
  you are talking about faculty intercommunication, sometimes that
  drops even lower--the biggest disappointment in my whole selection of
  education as my "life's work.")  Of course, we don't get paid to talk
  to/with students, only AT them.  You'll likely never get considered
  for that promotion or even tenure if you waste very much times talking
  with students.  Guess I'm tired today to, but I did respond to the
  Texas invitation.

--
Nicholas Sturm, 4037 Ward Beecher, 410 Wick Ave., Youngstown, Ohio 44555
  * aa248@yfn.ysu.edu *
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.qualrs-l
Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 09:07:33 EST
From:         ESLADG@GSUVM1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: bibliography software

    I have a program--actually a cluster of three programs--called
 Citation, Bibliography and Notebook II Plus.  They seem to have the
 potential to "do it all," but unfortunately are put out by two
 different software companies who've linked the programs but haven't
 (at least for this non-database-trained 45-year-old with a grave
 lack of crucial computerese schemata) integrated the manuals.  I'm
 having a devil of a time trying to learn how to use them.  Does
 anyone else out there know these programs?  The really frustrating
 part is that they hold such promise--ability to import virtually
 unlimited text from the word processor, to scan documents for short-form
 cites and convert to appropriate style sheets, store and print whole
 bibliographies in various "views," and so on.  The program package cost
 about $250, I think.  There is a support line, but I seem to be an
 incompetent poser of questions, too.
 Alice Gertzman
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