HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Subject: Re: mandatory service (was Re: Metzenbaum introduces Senate bill to end military ban)
Reply-To: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:04:09 GMT


In a previous article, shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) says:

>In article <1992Aug14.052914.7301@news.ysu.edu>, ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller) writes:
>> There is no public university, anywhere in the U. S.,
>> that can't be attended on govt. grants and loans. 
>
>You're assuming equal access to public k-12 education,
>which is a hell of an assumption to make.
Another irrelevancy, as you must be a high school graduate to enter the
military.

That aside, though, are you saying now that school age children have no
access to a public education?  Unless an individual student has committed
an act hienious enough to have that option removed from them, education
through high school graduation is a right, and if a person chooses not to
take advantage of it, that's their own fault.


> I, personally,
>would like to dump you on 63rd St. in Chicago and watch
>you tell people there that they're either lazy or loosers
>[sic].
>

Me going and getting my ass kick by a bunch of losers will not change the'
fasct that they are losers.
-- 
*...your Friendly Neighborhood Atheist // "Peter...PETER!!  I can see    *
*      the KelleyMan:Kelley L. Miller // your house from here!"          *    
*                  ae642@yfn.ysu.edu // Jesus Christ, from the cross     *
****************Know God...No peace.  No God...Know peace.****************
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: International Male (was R
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 04:29:26 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.145847.9371@infonode.ingr.com> norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris) writes:
>eric.hunt@matrix.sbs.com (Eric Hunt)  writes:
>
>>I think they'll loose the MASSIVE newsstand
>>exposure they get right now if they 'come out of the closet.' I mean, in
>>this godforsaken Biblethumping hellhole we call Alabama, IM is on every
>>newsstand you see practically.
>
>Of course! It's almost impossible to find any REAL JO material, so IM is
>a substitute for the closet cases.

Lots of normal acting men.  Didn't you know?

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "I don't know how much support NAMBLA
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  has in the gay community."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Clayton Cramer, August 1992
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tdbear@tandon.com (Tom Barrett)
Subject: Re: be kind to small furry animals
Organization: Tandon Corporation, Moorpark, CA
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 22:43:34 GMT

hehe... you're just gonna have to quit your job, change your
name, become a vet or zoo engineer, and live with the fear of
animal rights advocates coming across your message in a grep
of a multi-billion byte archieve or someone on microfilm in
the PETA archives and then following your name/career change
paper trial back to you! :)

I don't know about you, but anyone who has ever raised mice,
rats, gerbils, or hampsters would never let those little
incisors near any vital organs!  I don't know where these
fundies get these notions!  Probably while trading stories
while waiting for their turn at old Bossie!

-- 
Tom Barrett (TDBear)    tdbear@tandon.com                 voice 805-378-6207
Tandon Corporation      tdbear@p6.f1006.n102.z1.fidonet.org fax 805-529-8895
Sr. HW Design Engineer  "War is Peace, No is Yes, And We're All Free!" 
[The views expressed herein may not be shared by the organization of origin]
From: key@soda.berkeley.edu (peter li'ir key)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: "yeah, so what?" (was: the "oh" experience)
Date: 16 Aug 1992 03:09:40 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

maybe it's for lack of experience, but i haven't has an 'oh"
experience.  but i'll tell ya'll a story anyhow.  (some of
you who hace heard it already, so apologies).

when i came out to my friend, diane, i was all worked up and
tense.  she could tell i was nervous, and this made her
rather concerned.  i didn't know how she would take, but looking
back i should have expected it.  after is stopped pacing and
stopped making her nervous and tense i blurted out, "i'm gay."

she didn't even blink.  "yeah, so what?" was her immediate
response.  her second sentence was just a good, "i thought is was
something serious."  she immediately relaxed and then gently
berated me for making her so wound up.  i think i would have
dropped dead had she taken it any better.

peter li'ir key, who is in a good mood and decided to share :)
key@soda.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Subject: Re: mandatory service (was Re: Metzenbaum introduces Senate bill to end military ban)
Reply-To: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 05:29:14 GMT


In a previous article, shore@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Melinda Shore) says:

>In article <1992Aug13.193153.15687@news.ysu.edu> ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller) writes:
>>Anyone who says they joined the army because they had no other
>>options is one of two things, either a liar or a looser.  
>
>A looser what?  (The possibilities are intriguing.)
>
>Anyway, I think it's, like, totally adorable that you came
>from someplace where there were jobs.
From someplace there were jobs???  Have you ever heard of Youngstown, Ohio?
In 1975, when I graduated from High School, we had an unemployment rate
of over 25%!!  We had a steel economy, and lost _4_ steel mills between 1974
and 1977.

>  I, personally, would
>like to see the military disbanded tomorrow (I'm a pacifist),
>but the reality is that military service provides access to
>education, housing, health care, jobs, and a number of other
>things that would be otherwise unavailable to people from
>economically depressed areas and from families with no
>money.
>
Again, bullshit.  There is no public university, anywhere in the U. S.,
that can't be attended on govt. grants and loans.  Add to that most
universities will help out with jobs, or scholorships, or other aid,
and there's no excuse for someone not getting an education if they want one.

Also, the education provided by the military does not, for the most part,
prepare people for employment outside of the military.  Just look at how
many ex-solders and sailors work at day labor or McDonalds, or worse yet,
can't find work at all (that they'll lower themselves to do...)
Add to that how few accually take advantage of their GI bill wrt education
benefits, and after they get out, they're no farther ahead than they were when
they enlisted.

> Perhaps people who join the military do have other
>options, but it seems to me to be better for everybody to
>have some of these people end up in the army than in jail.
>
Granted, but also irrellevant, as many of those leaving the service 
unprepared for the outside world end up in jail anyway, as they're too
proud or laxy to do anything else. 

-- 
*...your Friendly Neighborhood Atheist // "Peter...PETER!!  I can see    *
*      the KelleyMan:Kelley L. Miller // your house from here!"          *    
*                  ae642@yfn.ysu.edu // Jesus Christ, from the cross     *
****************Know God...No peace.  No God...Know peace.****************
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: mandatory service (was Re: Metzenbaum introduces Senate bill to end military ban)
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:48:25 GMT
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller) writes:
>>>>I think everyone should serve in the army for a year unless they are
>>>>a concientious objector in which case they are forced to fill
>>>>potholes in Boston roads for a few months.
>>>Sounds OK to me.
>Oh?  How would it sound if it included women in equal participation with men?

Exactly the same.  I can fill a hole as well as any man in soc.motss.

[*snap*]

--
Ellen Keyne Seebacher            elle@midway.uchicago.edu
From: sgsying@chirpz.ecn.purdue.edu (Goangshiuan Ying)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: AM/CM - Gay Colonialism?
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:26:59 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network


In article <1992Aug18.151734.15840@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>
lam@popeye.comm.mot.com (Dan Lam) writes:
>In article <64177@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
>>
>>gay Asians in the country (think about it - where are all the
>>Asians who are Americanized enough to be gay? They're not in SF, they
>                ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>probably went to engineering school like all good Asian-Am boys, and
>>work in Silicon Valley!) 
>>
>
>You are what you are.  You dont need to be AMERICANIZED engouh to be
>what you are.  Come on Arthur, you make it sounds like homosexuality is an
>American thing.  I am sure gay asians exist.
>

I knew I was gay when I was 8.  I didn't know what `American' was back then. 
There are many others like me.  

Who is Mr. Hu?  Why he always tries to speak for the Asian?  Why does he 
always mix the subjects of homosexuality and race together?  



Shawn
--
Goangshiuan Ying (Shawn)
internet :  sgsying@hartley.ecn.purdue.edu
"We live for a lifetime for moments."
"Time is not measured by watches, but by moments."
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@vccsouth29.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: need good bible arguments AGAINST the anti-gay passages
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 03:25:44 GMT

gerber@solbourne.com (Andrew Gerber) writes:


>A flame war is starting on local regional newsgroups; I was wondering
>if anyone had good arguments against the typically used anti-gay
>passages in the Bible online which they could send me.  [Like how the
>translation from the latin depends on the conservatism of the
>theologean, etc]
There are a number of RATHER LONG files in the QRD that have been used
successfully in Usenet fights before, I gather. They are in 
/pub/QRD/qrd/text directory under bible.txt and bible.on.homos.Z (compressed, so
ftp in BINARY mode) and the other file is bible.txt. Enjoy! I don't have any
info on Boswell's claim of Roman Catholic gay marriages. I believe they are
suposed to appear in  a forthcoming book...
-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735.  ``D.C. in 93!''
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
"Dick--my bottom hurts just thinking about it!" - MADONNA, _Dick Tracy_ sndtrck
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: gay liberation
Date: 17 Aug 92 08:03:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Aug17.080351.6841
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <#c9mfgk.jfh@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>You may not know it, but the freedoms you enjoy are partly the result
>of what we did when we were your age (and older - turning 30, or 40,
>or 50, or 70 doesn't mean you can't be an activist anymore), just as
>our freedoms were partly the work of drag queens of the decades before.

I do know it, I just don't indicate that I do know it sometimes.

When I was first realizing I was gay, I had the help of a well
intentioned but not perfect high school counselor. He gave me this
weird book to read titled "Straight talk about homosexuality for
straight readers". I don't remember it very well, but I do remember
that I did *not* like the life presented in it. I think it talked a
lot about how much sex gay people had, and that scared me (I'm much
better now, thank you).

I did find a great book that really inspired me, though, titled "The
Gay Mystique" by (I think) Peter Fischer. I wish I still had the book,
to read it again. I gave it to that counselor to give to other people
working through the same issues.

The part I remember best described the climate of early 70s gay
activism. I especially remember the discussion of GLF zaps. I began to
understand what it meant to be proud of being a gay man.

I'd love to hear more about gay activism in the 60s and 70s. Can
anyone recommend good books? Are there any motssers who could take the
time to describe their own experiences?
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                 Shame is playback: exposure to disapproval
From: rcw@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Robert White)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Prediction of the Republican National Convention
Date: 18 Aug 92 04:59:11 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The WhiteStar Corporation

In article <1992Aug17.170035.19867@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>
>	Not likely given the %age of Fundies hand-picked to be
>delegates.  This was pre-arranged, and sadly shows how the Religious
>Wrong is more organizzed than people given them credit for (and much
>more organized than we are, but that's another story).

As the news cameras panned the delagates, it was amazing to me the number
of people with obviously too-tight underwear.  I hadn't realized that those
who indulge in the fundamentalist lifestyle were so easily discernible.

The audience is also populated with a super-abundance of clean-cut white
boys.  While the comparison of the Republican Party to the Nazis is 
trite, I couldn't help but be reminded of old newsreels of Hitler youth.

This perception was reinforced by Pat Buchanan's comment that we need to
take the country back.

Back from whom?

-- 
  [   Robert Carleton White, Jr.                      rcw@scicom.alphacdc.com]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: wearing symbols
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:01:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug16.153253.2613@spdcc.com>, rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
> timmy_b@cowpas.waffle.atl.ga.us (Tim Barnes) writes:
> >I just noticed tonight that International Male is selling Freedom Rings
> >in their catalog.  
> 
> 	That's all we need - more co-opting of symbols of gay pride, etc.
> as *fashion statements* and *fashion accessories*...
> 
> 	And of course this will be lapped up too.  It's no NICE when
> companies can capitalize on such things and make a profit.  Amerika:
> the home of the enterpreneur.

  Why? I cannot see this as anything as a net plus. When society starts
co-opting symbols and culture from other cultures, isn't this a sign
that we are "winning"? Cultural cross pollination  seems like an enormous
benefit -- it increases awareness, and eventually respect/tolerance.
  If people unwittingly adopt these symbols/culture without knowing where
they came from, just whose fault is that? This is a seperate issue, I think. 
  IMHO, this just another front in a large range of things that will
gain us tolerance/respect. There is no one answer to this problem. Using
whatever presents us to stay visible as human beings is a net plus,
especially positive things. Right?

> 	I suppose asking everyone to call IM and demand that the
> profits from the freedom ring sales go to a non-profit gay organziation
> is too much to ask, huh?

  Well, don't discount the avenue for making a buck. Greed, as much
as you may detest it, is a powerful equalizer. This really reminds me
of a point that Jojo made a while back about Hollywood: Hollywood isn't
white, it isn't black; it's green. How long can a companies cynically
profit on other groups while hypocritally detesting them? I just can't
see it as being anything other than a temporary situation. Something
that needs action to bring to a head, for certain, but temporary nonetheless.
  A good example of this sort of thing is that queer marketing survey
and Toyota's experiment in Australia. Aren't these _Good_Things_? They
sure seem good to me. 
  I think you are being a bit too cynical here Bob.
 
> 	On the other shoe, though, something just occurred to me:
> what would it take for some homophobic organzation to trademark and/or
> otherwise copyright the pink triangle or the rainbow flag?  Is it
> logistically possible?  Certainly were someone to start using the
> stylized "M" that McDonalds uses they'd be sued, ditto for other 
> corporate logos.  How are our symbols protected from corporate molestation?

  Or visa-versa. Wouldn't it be amusing to see some xtian sect getting
sued over using a Rainbow Flag or somesuch which they had unwittingly 
co-opted.
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay Homophobia & Allan Williams
Date: 23 Aug 92 10:00:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Aug23.100010.12109
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Aug23.033436.18138@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:

>I have seen "less butch" gay men give the straight-acting ones a
>ration of shit

But I can never be sure if it is supposed to be 2 tablespoons or 2
teaspoons. Anyone remember?
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/        You stupid vulgar greedy ugly American death sucker
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Obituary: Giles S. Winter
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 05:19:19 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 


[Extracted from the San Francisco Chronicle, Friday, August 21, 1992]

Obituary: Giles S. Winter

Giles S. Winter, a former diplomat and local merchant, died August 7 at
the age of 70 from complications of AIDS.

He served in the US Army Air Force during WWII.  After the war, he
worked for the US embassy in Paris after attending the University of
Paris.  He served as assistanr chief of protocol in implementation of
the Marshall Plan, and as an assistant to the plan's administrator,
Averell Harriman.

He moved to San Francisco in 1951, where he was an insurance underwriter.
After he retired his retirement he opened a business in Santa Rosa with
his partner Dan Blackwelder.  In his last years he was active as a
volunteer for AIDS patients and for the blind.   He is survived by
Blackwelder.
-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
From: cuzz@ellis.uchicago.edu (Laura Cuzzillo)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: wearing symbols
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:09:38 GMT
Reply-To: cuzz@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: The University of Chicago

In article <1992Aug13.172510.15048@cis.ohio-state.edu> amz@cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:

>stories about frightening unfriendly strayts....

I had a funny experience once in St John.  My partner and I were
taking a little US Park Service tour which involved riding around
in a little open bus with bench seats.  Caryn and I got in with me
having the inside seat.  A third woman came on and sat next to me.
Then a black couple got on next to her.  There was plenty of room
for 5 across, but the woman in the middle clearly did not like sitting
next to a black woman and practically climbed into my lap.  I subtly,
but clearly made it known that Caryn and I were alot more than "just
friends".  It seemed she nearly had a stroke trying to figure out
which was worse, a white lesbian or a black woman (apparently straight).

Laura
cuzz@midway.uchicago.edu
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Whizzzzzzz ( was Re: Introduction)
Date: 18 Aug 92 08:31:15 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <1992Aug17.231310.13070@macc.wisc.edu>,
reg'ler guy anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> In article <1992Aug17.210014.18241@quantime.co.uk>
> roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips) writes:
> >should that be "regeler"
> >... or "reguler"
> 
> ... I think it's r'egler.  

Mercy, mercy!
-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"The best way to find something you've lost is to buy a replacement."
-- Ann Landers
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris)
Subject: Re: Huntsville? Hmmmm.... (was Re: Introduction)
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:33:03 GMT

adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>Well, no.  I've never ventured to Huntsville, Alabama.  But it's
>just remotely possible I might swing by someday on my way to visit 
>a friend who's about to start teaching at dread Auburn University.

Stop by on your way *back*.  After Auburn, Huntsville will seem *MUCH* more
interesting.  (No offence to your friend.)

>*Remotely* possible I might swing by.  But surely the arrival
>of the Motss Grand Faggot to your humble village would occasion
>days of feasting and celebration in his honor?

Of course!  Southern Belles(tm) are nothing if not hospitable; especially
to a visiting dignitary.

>I feel faint~~~

STEP BACK!!  He may require resuscitation...

>> I'm in danger of becoming an Arneholic.
>Oh heavens, the dangers of Arneholism (I like the sound of that)
>are vastly exaggerated.  
>Open wide.

Why Arne... you're such a *good* host.

-jeff
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Rob Bernardo
Keywords: mahler, Lied, Leid
Date: 16 Aug 92 14:25:42 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Aug16.135728.4472@cis.ohio-state.edu>
amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:

>a little pedantry with a purpose...

>the mahler song cycle is entitled "Das Lied von der Erde"
>(`the song of the earth'), not as jack carroll typed it,
>"Das Leid von der Erde" - but this version, though inaccurate,
>is entirely appropriate in the context of postings about
>rob's death; it means `the sorrow of the earth'.

Appropriate choice it was, too, for a cycle that begins
"Dunkel ist das Leben, ist der Tod (Dark is life, is death)"
and ends "Ewig, ewig ... (Eternally, eternally ...)"

>arnold (who, es tut ihm leid, is always inclined to giggle at
>         the title "Des Knabens Wunderhorn", wondering just *how*
>         marvelous the boy's horn is)

Aber sehr, tatsaechlich!

<> Mr. Watson, come here, I ... uh, could you hold a minute,
<> I have a call on my other line.  Sorry, Mr. Watson, it was
<> just one of those darn Friends and Family people again.
<> -- Seth Johnson (smj@iti.org)
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888