HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: plugs
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 02:29:13 GMT
Reply-To: margoli@watson.IBM.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In  <1992Aug29.223158.25729@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>  billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
> star@husc9.harvard.edu (Joshua Star) writes:
> : Putting the lock back together let me make some observations... tell me if
> : I'm wrong.: 1) the size of the top half of the pin doesn't affect the keying.
> : (I mean the half that will be raised above the shear line.)
>
> True - but they have to be long enough so the spring does not go below the
> shear line, and short enough that the spring does not become fully comressed.

Some locks use all the same size top pins.  Others use differently-sized ones
so that the height of each pin stack is the same.

> : 2) it is very difficult to reach into this small space in the cylinder and
> : deposit spring, then pin in the right slot, and hold it down while trying
> : to fit the plug in to hold it.  To do all six pins would be very hard like
> : this.  I don't have any special tools other than tweezers and the like.  Is
> : there something a lot more sophisticated out there that the locksmiths are
> : using?
>
> There is a shell vice - but you can survive without it. You put all the pins,
> except the top pin, in the plug. You then insert the plug until it is next to
> the first hole. Make sure that the pins in the plug DO NOT line up with the
> holes in the shell.

Instead of worrying about the alignment, or accidentally dumping out the pins,
it's easier to use a follower.  This is a rod or tube the same diameter as
the plug.  The ones you buy usually have one end notched to fit over the
rear of some plugs, but you can cut a piece of a dowel and use that.  For
inserting pins, you can buy a pin tweezers, which has a groove cut out
just inside the tips.  There are fancier versions which also have a piece
of wire attached with the bent tip over the groove, to let you push the pin
down into the shell.

A pair of long-nose pliers works quite well.  Hold the top of the pin with
the very tip of the pliers, so that when you press down the spring with the
pin, you can press the follower against the pin and hold it there while you
release it with the pliers, then shove it down into the pin chamber - then
slide the follower forwards until just before the next chamber.

Another advantage of using a following tool instead of a plug is if you
have difficulty reaching the rear-most chambers, you can do the front half,
then shove the follower through and do the remainder from the other side.

Once you have all the top pins in, you can use the plug to push the
follower out.  If the back of the plug isn't flat, and you don't have
a follower notched to match it, make sure that the plug is turned so
that the top pins can't pop out between the plug and the follower.

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
From: ans0@aber.ac.uk (Austin Newton Shackles)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Libraries - anti-theft systems
Date: 29 Aug 92 09:57:46 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

g89s9141@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR K SMITH) writes:

wow wotta user-id...

>Hi 
>
>The talk of a magneticaly encoded lock triggered a persistent question of 
>mine.  In our univ. library there is a security system to prevent books 
>being removed without being first, desensitised by the librarians.  
>
>My initial guess was a magnetic system, ie include some highly magnetised 
>pin in the spine of the book.  So far I have not found any objects in the 
>spines.  It also seems that very narow journal can also be made to trigger 
>the alarm system when not checked out.
>
>A further bit of evidence is that the system does seem to be set off by 
>people with a big bunch of keys in their pockets.
>
>Any ideas?

hmmm...some libraries do this by some sort of detectable thingy stuck on the 
book, and you have to pass through between two sensors on the way out of the 
library, so the book is detected. when you take the book out in the normal 
manner (ie borrowing it on your ticket :-)) the librarian takes the book from 
you, then gives it back after you pass through the sensor, or puts it on the 
desk beyond the sensor so that you pick it up after passing through. they 
often include a swinging gate which lockss when you try to steal a book.

dunno if this is waht your library has. the one i'm thinking of had a bar-code
stuck inside the front cover for the machine to read, i always assumed that 
the detectable item was stuck under the barcode...never got around to ripping 
one off to see, though...they could of course be radioactive, not 
magnetic...(just to instil a little more paranoia in the chronically paranoid)
and also some of them can apparently affect heart pacemakers.


-- 
   Austin Newton Shackles   |   Cynic? Me??
   ans0@uk.ac.aberystwyth   |   				Naahhhh!!!
   DoD#0467 1981 Z440 Ltd   |           My opinions are just that   
   shackles@uk.ac.lampeter  |Physics dept. University of Wales, Aberystwyth.
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: harrism@aquila.rtp.dg.com (Mike Harris)
Subject: Re: Libraries - anti-theft systems
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 20:20:42 GMT
Reply-To: harrism@dg-rtp.dg.com
Organization: Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, NC

In article <g89s9141.20.715033335@giraffe.ru.ac.za>, g89s9141@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR K SMITH) writes:
|> Hi 
|> 
|> The talk of a magneticaly encoded lock triggered a persistent question of 
|> mine.  In our univ. library there is a security system to prevent books 
|> being removed without being first, desensitised by the librarians.  
|> 
|> My initial guess was a magnetic system, ie include some highly magnetised 
|> pin in the spine of the book.  So far I have not found any objects in the 
|> spines.  It also seems that very narow journal can also be made to trigger 
|> the alarm system when not checked out.
|> 
|> A further bit of evidence is that the system does seem to be set off by 
|> people with a big bunch of keys in their pockets.
|> 
|> Any ideas?

	These have been discussed in sci.electronics. There are various
	systems. Most are passive and work at rf frequencies. They usually
	look for specific resonances and rf mixer products which is why keys 
	and random pieces of metal don't set them off.

	The simple ones which cannot be de-activated typically involve
	a single resonant element. I believe 900 mhz is one of the 
	frequencies (anybody got a counter handy?) and a simple resonant
	loop for that frequency should set it off. You can't "pick" this
	one without sufficently detuning either the passive element or
	the transmitter.

	The more complex ones use a magnetizable strip to enable/disable
	sets of diodes. These diodes act as mixers which produce many,
	though deterministic, output frequencies. They look for specific
	frequencies that are produced when the diodes are enabled. These
	would be even harder to "pick" without destroying or removal.
	These are the strip ones usually placed in books and non clothes
	merchandise.

	Some ECM techniques are probably appropriate depending upon the intent.

	If you want to pick these systems you'd need inside information
	(which I don't have) or sophisticated electronics. A spectrum
	analyzer would be the most appropriate.

	regards, Mike
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: g89s9141@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR K SMITH)
Subject: Libraries - anti-theft systems
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 20:22:15 GMT

Hi 

The talk of a magneticaly encoded lock triggered a persistent question of 
mine.  In our univ. library there is a security system to prevent books 
being removed without being first, desensitised by the librarians.  

My initial guess was a magnetic system, ie include some highly magnetised 
pin in the spine of the book.  So far I have not found any objects in the 
spines.  It also seems that very narow journal can also be made to trigger 
the alarm system when not checked out.

A further bit of evidence is that the system does seem to be set off by 
people with a big bunch of keys in their pockets.

Any ideas?
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: removing cylinders & old question
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 22:01:58 GMT

hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
: In article <1992Aug25.164111.21711@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
: >: I have two questions:  the first is how does one remove a cylinder?
: >
: >The answer totally depends on the model of the lock.
: 
:   But it almost always involves some degree of disassembly of the
: lock.  A key-in-knob usually needs to have the knob come off, and
: a cylinder going through the door is usually held in with screws from
: the back or the side.  If you take the entire lock completely apart
: it will usually be clear how to remove the cylinder.

True. But I was assuming that the person knew how to remove the lock from
the door. I ran across a couple of locks, many years ago, that I never did
figure out how to remove the cylinders. I do not recall the make or model,
but they were unusual. I did not have any locksmithing notes on the particular
make.

Bill
From: ed.beaulieu@madness.network23.com (Ed Beaulieu) 
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: ...
Date: 2 Sep 92 00:51:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Terminal Madness BBS - Newport, RI - 401-848-9069
Reply-To: ed.beaulieu@madness.network23.com (Ed Beaulieu) 

-> Ahem.... Ed,  this is your boss. Chris... Are you planning anything?
-> We need to talk...
->
->
->
->
-> *......................................................................*
-> Chris Mathis UUCP  : chris.mathis@madness.network23.com        It's
-> only a BBS   : Terminal Madness BBS                            hobby,
->       Middletown, RI  USA                         It's only a
-> Node1 : 401)848-9069  v32bis,v42bis 14400 bps              hobby...
-> Node2 : 401-847-4902  v32bis,v42bis 14400 bps
->
->
->
-> *......................................................................*


Who, me??

        Hey, shorten that damned tagline, willya?
                                                                                                             
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: ECZ5ACK@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Andy Kohler)
Subject: Locksmithing archives?
Reply-To: ecz5ack@mvs.oac.ucla.edu
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:06:28 PDT

--
Not too long ago there was a posting which mentioned that there
were archives of the postings from this group.  Unfortunately,
I didn't save that article... could someone please repost
or mail the location of those archives to me?  I did an Archie
search, with no success.
Thanks.
Andy Kohler (ecz5ack@mvs.oac.ucla.edu)
From: holowczk@rwja.umdnj.edu (Richard Holowczak)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Car Alarms. Advice Needed
Summary: Car Alarms. Advice Needed
Keywords: Car alarm
Date: 3 Sep 92 04:20:24 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: Robert Wood Johnson Medical School, Piscataway NJ

Hello there all of you locksmiths. Others might have asked
this in the past but I must have missed it being kind of new
to this whole news thing.  Here goes:

I am looking to purchase an alarm for my Acura Legend. I have
a budget of about 300 - 400 dollars and would like to stick close
to it if possible.  I called 4 dealers and the all told me the
same story about different alarms.  It went something like this:

"We only sell brand X because Y and Z really suck"

"We only sell brand Z because we had so many problems with X and Y"

. . . 

You get the picture.  The few that were recommended are:

Ungo Box
VSE Derringer/2
Viper
Clifford Intelligaurd 200

The features I'm looking for are: Switch protection for Hood, Trunk,
and doors, ignition kill, remote arm/disarm, sensor "zones" (Where,
for example, if you have a christmas tree in your trunk and you can't
shut it, the alarm will still arm and protect the rest of the car),
a passive or active option and some sort of shock or shatter sensor
for window breakage and body shock (like jacking up to steal tires,
etc.).  This sensor should be easily adjustable to avoid false
alarms by big trucks passing by, thunder, wind and low flying
aircraft.  I have read about some alarms having the smarts to
disable a sensor after being tripped a certain number of times. That
is not super important but would be nice.

Too much for $400? I hope not.  I realize that the installation is
probably the most important feature of all so I'm being very picky
about that.  Any other suggestions? (please!)

Thank you for your time,

Rich Holowczak
holowczk@rwja.umdnj.edu
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: removing cylinders & old question
Date: 26 Aug 92 01:00:44 GMT
Organization: NCSU Computing Center


  Several posters have supplied a lot of useful information - let
me add one general principle of lock disassembly - a principle which
applies more to high quality locks than to junky locks.

  The principle is that many locks are made to be taken apart only 
when you have the key.  In a sense, posession of the key is the
closest one can come to a mechanical 'authorization' to disassemble.
Some locks, like the Best, require a special key.  Cheaper locks
often only require that the lock be in the unlocked state.  (And
only the real junk allows disassembly directly from the locked
state. :-)

  For example, some key-in-knob locks have a small hole down
where the knob enters the door and if you poke a pin punch in there
you can depress a spring and pull off the knob.  However this hole
becomes uncovered only when the key is turned in the knob.  For an
example of a cheaper key-in-knob lock, some have the through bolts
always accessible from the inside of the house - so all you need is
a screwdriver and 30 seconds and the whole thing is apart.

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
From: kng@pt.com (Ken Gravenstede)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Libraries - anti-theft systems
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:50:07 GMT
Organization: Performance Technologies, Incorporated

I really have to set the record straight for most of the theft alarms found
in libraries, record stores (or CD stores now) etc.  None that I know of are
based on a magnetic strip.  However, what most (or maybe all) are based on
is a radio transmitter.  In practice what is done is to put a small strip
of foil of the correct length that will resonate at the input frequency.
Some of the designs use a diode also which I believe will actually allow
one to divide or multiply the frequency.  Either way, what happens is that
the signal is retransmitted by the strip back to the reciever which can 
detect it.  Most record stores have a small gun that they drag over some
contacts on the strip.  This is just a large power supply that blows a
fuse in the strip making the length different and hence killing the
resonance.  In a previous posting someone said that their library hands
the books out around the uprights.  This makes it possible to not have
to blow the fuse.  Just circumvent the detector!  Anyway, I hope this helps.
If someone has actual firsthand knowledge of a magnetic based system I'd 
like to hear about it since I currently know of none.

Ken
-- 
__
Ken Gravenstede, Performance Technologies Incorporated	kng@pt.com
315 Science Parkway, Rochester, New York 14620            uupsi!ptsys1!kng
Xref: sparky alt.locksmithing:1549 misc.consumers.house:11606
From: jeff@claw.clearpoint.com (Jeffrey J. Griglack)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing,misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Multiple locks, same key.  yes/no?
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:09:43 GMT
Reply-To: jeff@claw.clearpoint.com
Organization: /home/jeff/.organization

On 30 Aug 92 22:36:26 GMT, hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) said:

H> In article <Btt5K1.IGM@hatch.socal.com> richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg) writes:
> ...
>Given a typical suburban house with 2 locks on the front door (a key-in-knob
>and a deadbolt), and the same on the back door,  what do you feel is the 
>proper number of keys?
>
>On my house, I have all 4 (plus the garage) keyed alike.  IMHO, this
>is the proper way to do it. *I* don't want to have to carry a bunch
>of similar keys, and have to fumble for 2 keys each time I open the
>door.  Other friends disagree, and want all locks different.
> ...

H>   What is accomplished by having the locks keyed-alike (KA) vs. keyed-
H> differently (KD)?  You mention that carying/using fewer keys is a benefit
H> of keyed-alike.  Why shouldn't one get this benefit - the major
H> possibility is a loss of security.  If an intruder has to work harder
H> to get two different keys vs. only one key, then you have a security
H> benefit from keyed-differently.  How do your KD friends keep their

Let's face it, the average intruder just breaks a side window and
crawls in.  He is not going to care whether you have different locks
on the doors or not.  Once inside, he will either open the door, or,
if he can't open it from the inside either, pass the stuff out the
window to an accomplice and then trash the house just for fun.

H> different keys?  If they are on the same key ring, or in the same
H> pocketbook, then someone who obtains one key almostly certainly gets
H> both at the same time, negating this security approach.  (While if
H> the husband carried one key, the wife the other and they had to be
H> there at the same time to open the door there certainly would be an
H> increase in security, although perhaps an unbearable inconvenience. :-)

Better yet, why not a system where each person carries a seperate key,
one key hole cannot be reached from the other, and the two keys must
be turned within 2 seconds of eachother.  If not, a silent alarm would
go off alerting the police who would pick up the frustrated would-be
robber still trying to figure out why the key doesn't work.  Now that
would be security :).
--

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Jeff Griglack             |"To mess about with typewriters and latch keys    |
|jeff@claw.clearpoint.com  | and call it work!"                               |
|jeff@fang.clearpoint.com  |                          -- E.M. Forster         |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: chad@cix.compulink.co.uk (Charles Dignes)
Subject: Re: Libraries - anti-theft systems
Cc: chad@cix.compulink.co.uk
Reply-To: chad@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 22:36:09 +0000


> Magnetic library book tags

Magnetic systems are unusual these days, because for pretty
fundamental reasons of physics, they're difficult to implement when
the distance between reader & tag is large. A better option is to use
radio frequencies, as these have a larger effective range for a given
transducer size & power consumption. These work by attaching one or
more passive RF resonant circuits to the tagged item. Usually these
are fixed in frequency, and can't be switched on & off easily.

One-use radio tags are commonly used in shops. As they only need to
be used once, and don't need any means to re-enable them, they can be
made very cheaply. A common system in the UK uses a tag made of a
foil laminate with an adhesive backing. The foil is cut into a simple
LR resonant circuit and covered by another layer which may also be
used for printing of a barcode. Disabling of the tag is done with a
small "wand" at the checkout. Two metal prongs on the wand are
pressed against two bare spots on the foil tag and a current passed
between them, fusing a thin link in the circuit and stopping it
resonating.

I've never seen a library that used an enable tag/disable tag system.
It's far easier to just pass the issued books *round* the side of
the scanner gate. This also removes the need for the librarian to
re-enable the tags on returned books, a time consuming task which
renders the whole system pointless if books are missed.

A pretty fundamental feature of any system is that it must be
insensitive to false triggering by other objects, such as keys. As
magnetic detection systems work in much more subtle ways than simply
detecting any lump of magnetic material, this isn't a problem.
Placing a large piece of magnetic material next to it will in fact
shield the tag from the detector. I know of a car factory which
installed a magnetic tag reader system for tracking engines being
assembled on a production line - the cast iron cylinder heads were so
effective at swamping the magnetic readers that the system was
abandoned within a few months (I designed their replacement system,
using optical barcodes).

(None of my comments imply that other systems don't exist, just that
they're unusual in my experience)
From: IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU (macphil)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Libraries - anti-theft systems
Date: 29 Aug 92 20:51:04 GMT
Organization: IUPUI

In article <BtqIA5.1M0@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
cmarsigl@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Klif Marsiglio) writes:
 
>If you really dont want to destroy them, a friend has a tape head demagnatizer
>which he uses to take things home with, but you can't do the fun tricks like
>getting out the tape putting it in someones books they own and then watch them
>get confiscated when they try to leave :)
 
along the same lines and not quite on locksmithing, i must have been
nine or ten when i first thought about this:  get a piece of lead foil
and trace the outline of a gun, even a squirt gun and cut it out and
slide it into someone's luggage behind the lining so that the x-ray
machine will produce a rather noticeable image at the airport.
 
i've never tried it, but it sounds feasible (and mean)--considering the
harder they try to find it, the more frustrated they will get...
From: cfiddyme@neumann.une.edu.au (Chris Fiddyment)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Some questions.
Date: 28 Aug 92 00:05:22 GMT


  I have been a novice lock-picker for a while now and after seeing this news 
  group I have a few questions.

  First of all are all those fancy picks and rakes neccesary for a begginer.
  I have made a tension wrench and a few picks from street sweeper
  bristles. (All this time I could never work out where these pieces of 
  metal came from) Is this all that is necessary.
 
  Are rakes simply a straight pick with a few bumps on the end.

    --------------------
    -  -  -                 ( I guess it looks like a rake :-) )
     
  Is there any special techniqus(sp) for using these or is it just luck.
  That seems to be the way for me at the moment.

  When picking the pins how much tension is needed. I have a lock at home and
  if I put gentle tension on it I can pick the back pin easily but then I find 
  that all of the other pins are stuck and I have to release tension to push
  them in. Also sometimes a pin will just bounce up and down on the springs
  no matter how much or little tension I have. Why is this?

             Thanks for any help.
             Chris


* Chris Fiddyment.             |   I never promised anybody *
* cfiddyme@neumann.une.edu.au  |   anything.   Kermit.      *
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing