HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: HELP** 9mm vs. 38Super!!!!!
Date: 25 Jan 93 01:04:29 GMT
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

In article <9301210606.AA29980@gw.wmich.edu> x91karpinski@gw.wmich.edu writes:
#Hey
#
#I am considering the purchase of either a 9mm or 38super
#pistol.  Has anyone had any experience with the 38super, I know
...
#Chuck
#X91karpinski@gw.wmich.edu

The 38 super round is very popular in IPSC shooting because it 
makes the "major power factor" ( a concept more related to scores than
performance of the round ).

Reasons to favor the 38 super :

- Higher velocity round (may or may not translate into better
  stopping power)*
- Can be loaded to IPSC major (for competetive use)
- Excuse to buy reloading press (because of scarcity of 38 super
  ammo on the market)
- The SIG in 38 super would be a rare beast (not so much a 
  collectible as a "hardly ever see one of those' types of guns)

Reasons to favor the 9mm  :

- Wide variety of factory ammo available, including many optimized
  for defensive performance
- Commercial reloads readily available
- Surplus brass readily available (cheap used 38 super brass is
  virtually unheard of)
- Finding extra magazines for the gun will be much easier as the 9mm
  configuration is the common one in the US
- Less recoil than 38 super
- Common ammo with many more guns you may aquire in the future.


I regard the 38 super as a specialty IPSC round, and see little
real need for it outside the one special application.  

                                        Flame Away!!!

                                        rob b.
From: 34AEJ7D@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Home invasions
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:01:25 GMT

ARGH! Apparently our news processor stripped off the "backslash"
characters, ASCII 092. If you put 'em back in the more or less
obvious places, the diagram will make more sense.

W. K. Gorman
From: unislc@unislc.slc.unisys.com (James Warren)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: loading cast bullets for 9mm para
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:00:44 GMT
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC

#From article <9301201817.aa06552@s.s.ms.uky.edu>, by tracy@ms.uky.edu (Tracy Cerise):
# Hello all,
# 
# I have recently purchased a Ruger P89DC 9mm pistol and have enjoyed it
# thoroughly so far.  What I would like to know is if anyone has experience
# loading lead cast bullets for 9mm semi-auto pistols.  I am interested in
# finding out about any caveats or problems (like jams) that may occur, or
# any other pitfalls to be aware of.  Also if I could be directed to a good
# manual that has information on loading cast bullets for pistols I would
# appreciate it.
# 

I used to have a Ruger P85.  It would handle any load I threw at it.  I
expect that the P89 should do the same.  I used several different weights
of cast bullets in RN and truncated cone designs.  The P85 NEVER jambed
with any load I tried (very light to very hot).  I can not say the same
about the two Glocks which I load for.  (They both jam with light loads
or loose grips, but most loading manuals warn you about this so I do not
hold it against the Glocks as they are fine guns.)

As for loading manuals, I recomend (in order):
Hodgdon (for their powders)
Accurate Arms (Their velocity estimates are usually quite high, though)
Lyman Cast Bullet loading guide

Hornady, Nosler, Sierra, Speer, Hercules, Winchester, IMR, etc (are OK 
                                            for their respective products)

If I could only have one, it would be Hodgdons.  For cast bullets only,
it would be Lyman.

As for the Ruger, I feel that it is without a doubt the best gun
available for the money.  I sold mine, but just because I don't like
semi-autos.  If I felt the need for one now, I would buy another Ruger.
From: hancock@iex.iex.com (David Hancock)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Seagal's Firearms handling (was: Re: Got One! (Spring. Arm. 1911-A1))
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:16:14 GMT
Organization: IEX Corporation, Dallas

In article <1993Jan26.002742.22687@ttinews.tti.com> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
#In article <199301230809.AA26704@news.service.uci.edu> spickett@orion.oac.uci.edu (Steve Pickett) writes:
#}In article <9301221707.AA16674@mmddvan.mdd.comm.mot.com> booth@mdd.comm.mot.com (Greg Booth) writes:
#
#}#My Black Badge Instructor mentioned he had seen Steven Seagal compete in IPSC 
#}#matches, and that Mr. Seagal knew his stuff.
#
#}... The gunsmith that builds most of my stuff built a stainless Colt for Seagal
[snip]
#
[snip]
#into acting.  As such, he knows the ropes and tries to make his films as
#realistic as possible.

Several posters have commented that Mr. Seagal's movies are realistic.  I
assume what is meant is "technically accurate"?  After all, I'd hardly consider
a civilian involved in a car chase down a city street firing through his
windshield with a .45 as particularly realistic.  In one movie (perhaps a
different one), he makes a batch of special rifle handloads.  I believe he
is shown pouring mercury into the bullet noses.  Wasn't this idea discredited
here on the 'net some time ago?  In spite of these perceived problems I
do appreciate that he typically carries a *very* nice piece :-)

Oh, it might be better if he could, umm, well, *act*.
-- 
David Hancock -*- IEX Corporation	       | Email: [uunet!]iex!hancock
		  1400 Preston Road, Suite 350 | Voice: (214) 612-2600
		  Plano, Texas 75093
From: random@nw4ep.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Kitten's Firearms handling (was:Seagal)
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:41:24 GMT
Organization: AT&T

#From article <PBLRXB1w164w@upchrch.UUCP>, by upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch  ):
# hobbes@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com (Stephen Camp) writes:

# # But overall, I was impressed by the firearms handling by the good guys anyway
# # in "Marked for Death."  What other films have you folks been impressed by?
# # (Seagal or otherwise)
# 
# The best all time movie as far as correct firearms handling is
# "Tremors". If you haven't seen it, check it out; especially the rec
# room scene.

Kitten Natividad appears in a new release called Tittillation III
which starts out with an attempted bank robbery. Kitten and her girls
rob the banks in the nude so that all the victims (all male) remember
are the tits. Kitten is wielding a shotgun which she always keeps 
pointed in a safe direction (as far as her girls are concerned) and
whenever her gang members walk in front of the gun, she raises it to 
avoid it being pointed at them. I thought it was impressive, especially
considering that ti was a Hard Core porno flick.

	Random
From: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: home protection concerns
Date: 26 Jan 93 13:04:56 GMT
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

In article <1993Jan22.201321.19378@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
#...
#If you know of a police department that issues ammo you like, choose
#that ammo, and give their choice of it as your reason.
#...

That is a good point. Why don't we post a list of info about which PD 
uses which ammo? I use Glaser and Hydra-Shok 9mm ammo. Anyone knows 
which PD uses them? :-) 

David
-- 
 K. David Lin, Ph.D.              | IEEE Member, NRA Member, HAM Operator
 Communication Services Research  | U S WEST Life Safety Team
 U S WEST Advanced Technologies   | Defend your life in STEREO - Beretta & SIG 
 E-mail: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com | Disclaimer: Only personal opinions
From: 003166j@axe.acadiau.ca (JASON WILLIAM JARVIS)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: De Lisle Carbine
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:00:16 GMT
Organization: Acadia University


	I just happen to have my "Military Small Arms of the 20th Century" 
(6th ed.) handy, and I looked up the De Lisle.  Produced by Sterling Arm. 
Co., it was used by the Commandos and other sneaky groups during the war.  
It looks like a standard No. 4 action, modified to shoot the .45 ACP.  The 
magazine well was covered over and a standard 8-rd. Colt 1911A1 magazine was 
used.  The barrel was 8.26" long (although it looks alot longer in the 
picture), and was totally surrounded by the silencer.  The silencer was so 
effective that the only sound that could be heard was the cocking-piece 
hitting the bolt, and of course, the act of opening the bolt (which those of 
us who are familiar with the type know can be quite loud if you don't care 
how much noise you make).  Because the barrel was so long, it was quite 
accurate out even to 300 yards, although one has to wonder about the 
lethality of the .45 at that distance.  Apparently, in the early eighties, 
one or two companies began making it again, but it doesn't say how many were 
sold or anything.  Sounds like a interesting weapon.

						Jason
Xref: sparky rec.guns:20267 dc.forsale:3444 misc.forsale:36483
From: jburney@hydra.nodc.noaa.gov (Jeff Burney)
Newsgroups: rec.guns,dc.forsale,misc.forsale
Subject: **** Complete Dillon reloader for .357/.38Special - For Sale ****
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:57:21 GMT
Followup-To: rec.guns
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center - Greenbelt, MD USA

Everything you need to get started at reloading:

Dillon Square Deal Progressive Press
- Dies for .357/.38 Special (currently set to .357 SWC)
- four stations, dead primer catch, auto charge, cartridge catch tray
- Auto primer feed with low primer alarm
- Dillon primer flip tray 
- Dillon precision scale
- Dillon precision calipers
- cover
- Sierra reloading manual
- midway tumbler & sifter (with brass cleaner and cleaning media)

- ~1100 158gr. cast lead SWC bullets 
- a bunch of .38 Special(~500) and .357(~400) shells

Less than 500 rounds through, excellent condition

Reason for selling:
I just don't shoot enough to make it worthwhile.

About $460.00(US) new

Everything for $300.00(US) + shipping
--
Jeff Burney
202-606-4570 jburney@argos.nodc.noaa.gov
Ocean Climate Lab
NOAA/National Oceanographic Data Center
From: erikw@bat.wpd.sgi.com.wpd.sgi.com (Erik Wahlstrom)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: shooting under water?
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:02:34 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA

One other important consideration is the FLASH point of the powder and primer.
I recall a problem NASA was haveing with a satellite because it's sun shade did
not correctly deploy.Some piece of equipment was about to fail because of the
high internal temperature of the craft. Who ever is involved with aerospace
correct me if am wrong but i believe temperature differences in the vacuum of
space can be close to zero and as high as 450 degrees or more.


Happy hunting Erik Wahlstrom
From: lvc@cbvox1.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock Carbines (was Re: MP-5 question)
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:50:54 GMT
Organization: Ideology Busters, Inc.

In article <1993Jan22.214412.10897@univel.com> Thi_Huynh@univel.COM (Saigon Smuggler) writes:
#In article <1993Jan21.174711.7856@netcom.com>, pismobch@netcom.com (Ed Devinney) writes:
#|> Has anyone fired the SP89?  Can you do it one-handed?  Accurately?  It
#|> would seem to have the same problem as the full-sized Uzi 'pistols' - one
#|> hand supporting a carbine-weight weapon).
#
#Gun Test did a review on this H&K about a year ago.  If I recall correctly,
#they mentioned that the gun has no practical purposes except plinking.

Or converting it to an MP5K; actually, /if/ what Christopher Crobaugh
reports on tpg [imported ammo and guns stopped by US State Dept.] is
true, there will be no more SP89s coming in, and thus no more MP5K
conversions except from SP89s already in the US.

#Never fired one but held one at a local gun store, I would say that with
#a 30-round magazine, and no stock,

It's a pistol, so it can't have a stock by law, otherwise it would be
a short barrel rifle...  If it's converted to an MP5K then you can add
a /folding/ stock to it.

#And it is expensive!

About $1200.
-- 
Larry Cipriani, att!cbvox1!lvc or lvc@cbvox1.att.com
From: gt2067c@prism.gatech.edu (J. Paul Patton)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 3 Strikes... I'm out!
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:16:34 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


	Here's an interesting situation to think about.....  I am a student
in Atlanta, GA and my permanent residence is in Tennessee.  I would like to
purchase a handgun for home protection concerns, but I am not allowed to
purchase a handgun from a dealer because I am not a PERMANENT resident of 
the state.  An interesting fact here is that according to a local dealer, I
can purchase a handgun with a Tennessee driver's license and a State of 
Georgia Identification card.  However, I can't get a Georgia ID without
turning in my Tennessee drivers license.  Furthermore, it would be illegal 
for me to purchase a handgun from an INDIVIDUAL who is a resident of the 
state of Georgia, so that's another strike against me.  Here's the clincher... 
I am never in Tennessee during a college break for more than one week, and
there is a 15 day waiting period.  Stuck again!  Does this seem strange, or
am I crazy?  If you have had any experience or think that I have been 
misinformed, please mail me a message.  I'm really upset!  Thanks.....

-P

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
J. Paul Patton                      <>    Be an optimist - at least until they
gt2067c@prism.gatech.edu            <>    start leading animals by twos to
Georgia Institute of Technology     <>    Cape Canaveral.
Atlanta Georgia, 30332              <>                      --source unknown
#<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
From: gary%ke4zv.uucp@mathcs.emory.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: home protection concerns
Date: 23 Jan 93 21:50:23 GMT
Organization: Destructive Testing Systems

In article <JANECZKO.93Jan20222918@csd630a.erim.org> janeczko@csd630a.erim.org (Mike Janeczko) writes:
#I recently bought a S&W model 686 (i.e. Stainless steel 6" .357) for both 
#protection and hunting.  I was talking with my father about loads to keep 
#around the house for protection.  He said definetly use factory loads.  His 
#reason was that if by chance you end up killing a perp. with a handloaded
#cartridge, the prosecuting lawyer might portray you using excessive force.
#His reasoning might be that necessary force could have been carried out 
#with factory load (i.e. non-maximum loads).  This also got me thinking about 
#the caliber of the gun also being considered as excessive force?  Has there 
#been any cases involving this?

There's a lot of talk about this subject. My cut is that in a deadly
force situation, and *any* situation involving a firearm, even a 25ACP,
is a deadly force situation, there is no such thing as excessive force
with any civilian weapon. It *might* be argued that using a 105mm 
howitzer was excessive force *if* it could be shown that you had a
less powerful alternative ready at hand. But, the fact of the matter
is that you are expected to use *what you have at hand* at the time
of the need for exercising deadly force. If that's a .454 Casull
with triplex handloads, so be it.

#Another point my father made that I guess makes sense is that when loading a 
#clip  (doesn't apply in my case, at least not yet :-)  you should 
#"fingerprint-proof" your bullets.  This can be done by loading the clip with a 
#glove on or use a towel when loading.  This gives one less piece of evidence 
#tieing you to the gun.  It may not help, but why give the prosecutor any kind 
#of edge.

This, on the other hand, is a very bad idea. *If* the prosecutor can
prove that you delibrately tried to hide your fingerprints, this is a
serious point against you since it shows your *premeditated* intent to 
obstruct the police in any possible investigation.

Gary
-- 
Gary Coffman KE4ZV          |    You make it,     | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary
Destructive Testing Systems |    we break it.     | uunet!rsiatl!ke4zv!gary
534 Shannon Way             |    Guaranteed!      | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary      
Lawrenceville, GA 30244     |                     |
From: donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SKS Slam fire
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:03:03 GMT
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA

In article <9301202032.AA13947@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM>
fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix) writes:
##With the light recoil of an SKS, it's hard to imagine how it could
##"tear out" of anyone's grip.
#
#In the case of the recent legal judgement against Navy Arms, etc. for
#the survivors of the customer who nailed himself with his slam-firing
#SKS...newspaper reports here imply (where they don't state it outright)
#that the rifle did *not* "tear out" of his grasp.
#
#They said that he one-handedly operated the bolt, the rifle began
#firing, etc.  The SKS appears to have been sitting on the table
#in front of the man.  The nearest I can figure (having shot at the
#range in question) is that he pulled the bolt and let the butt of
#the rifle press against his upper leg or hip. I can't imagine why
#he though this would be safe to do, though.

A fellow gun lover from Santa Cruz read in the paper there that the
guy killed at Los Altos Rod & Gun had dinked around, trying to make
his SKS fire full auto...that it did but didn;t STOP when he let go of
the trigger.

Anyone else hear anything like that?

   don
From: lawler@ektools.kodak.com (Ed Lawler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Savage Stainless Rifles
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:36:48 GMT
Organization: Eastman Kodak

I'm interested in getting some opinions on the Savage stainless rifle
with synthetic stock. It's price is lower than other manufacturers.
Is the trigger OK? I've seen it locally in 30-06 for $280. Both good
and bad opinions are welcome.
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Springfield Amoury Toy Broke ...
Date: 23 Jan 93 15:59:40 GMT
Organization: Circle 'C' Shellfish Ranch, Shores of the Pacific, California


Well,the luster is off a little bit... I was changing the grips
on my new SA 1911-A1 and the little fittings that the grip screw
screws into came of of the frame.  (It is like a bushing with a 
small threaded hole in the middle for the grip screw and a larger
set of threads on the outside that screw into the frame.  I presume
this is so that grip screws that strip the threads don't take a 
frame with them ...)

Well, I think, just loose.  I'll put them back in.  NOT! 

The 3/16 inch or so diameter holes that the bushings screw into
are only slightly threaded.  It looks to me like the holes are
slightly too large and the threads were cut in the hole with a
regular tap, but not enough metal was there to make a decent 
full depth thread.

Being VERY CAREFULL, I can get them seated enough to sort of 
hold if I don't tighten the grip screws too much...  but this
is just bogus.  It had to be visible to the folks installing the
grip screw bushings and/or cutting the threads.

Now I have the problm of deciding to ship it back to the factory,
or just coating the bushing with epoxy, or finding out if there are
oversized bushings available and taping a larger hole...  

Tomorrow I go talk to the GunSmith at the store where it was bought...

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Muzzleloader muzzle velocities?
Date: 23 Jan 93 15:59:55 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

Can anybody help me with muzzle velocities for the following
guns:

Brown Bess
Ferguson Rifle (1776)
Belton's Repeating Rifle (1777)
Baker Rifle (1800) .62 caliber
Brunswick Rifle (1837) .704 caliber
Paterson Colt Revolving Carbine (1838) .525 caliber

Also, could anyone cite any good books to look this stuff up in?
Thanks!

Dakin
burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
From: mjc5@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael J. Cavotta)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Gun Finish Question
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:17:34 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


	I just bought a Walther/Interarms PPK/S in blue, pleased with its
price as well as its looks.  Yesterday, a friend of mine was commenting
on the fine workmanship and finish of my gun, only to qualify his praise
with "...but I would only buy stainless."

	There are but a few guns that I would like to own in stainless
rather than blue, or any of the other black combat finishes out there. 
For me, it's a matter of personal taste, and an aesthetic one at that,
which leaves me wondering if my preference is costing me anything in the
way of quality.
	
Here are some questions I have been unable to answer:

1) Are all factory blue finishes equal (How does Walther measure up)?
2) I have heard that stainless and high-carbon steels have different
   qualities other than corrsion resistance in gun making.  Is this true?
3) Are the "virtues" of stainless enough to cast aside aesthetics?


Thanks....
-- 
Michael J. Cavotta                 
Proud American & NRA Member    (Down with the jibbering masses of liberalism!)
#----------------------------------------------------------------------------<
  "You either ride the steam-roller, or stand there whining and die" (Me).
From: PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: home protection concerns
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:50:12 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee

In article <C1CG68.JIJ@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
#Ahhh...but, if you've been purposely loading down, to get a more accurate 
#_target_ load, that paints another picture entirely--along the lines of
#"I used what I had." It also provides you with another plus: if you've
#been developing target loads, that presumes the fact that you've been
#down to the range quite a bit, which intimates that you talk to the
#people there--relevant character witnesses. Who among us (who reloads)
#hasn't asked another reloader what kind of load he uses, and what his
#results are? If you're developing a load, and you're a steady customer
#of a range, they're going to be very good witnesses to the fact that you
#were devloping the load as a part of your legitimate, sporting hobby, not
#with the intention of dosing out lead-deficiency treatment.

But this "morbid facination with engines of death and destruction" still 
makes you a "gun nut."

#
#But you're right; we know better, and we're not the jury--although, by
#rights, a handloader should be tried by people who actually understand
#handloading and shooting. You know, that "jury of your peers" stuff...

This is a mis-conception.  You are not entitled to a "jury of your peers" 
over here, but a jury of "12 good men and true."  A jury of your "peers" is 
a phrase from english common law meaning that peasants would not wind up 
haveing to judge nobles and nobles wouldn't get to judge peasants.  

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
E-Mail to PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu, mail to ARCHER at that address will
bounce.    "Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Sig P220, Assembled by RPI?????
Date: 22 Jan 93 14:08:07 GMT
Organization: CIE, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY

Mark Sechrest writes:

#A local gun dealer has a limited nember of Sig P220's chambered in 9mm
#at an attractive price. The smith there tells me that these were overruns
#on a production for the Taiwanese special police. On the side they say
#"Assmebled by RPI" but the rest of the Sigs he has on display do not. Any
#idea who RPI is and why they were assembling guns for Sig? Would this be
#a good buy at $470?

Must be some secret research project here at the 'Tute.  Those damn
MechE-types have all the fun. ;-)


John

--
******************************************************************************
               John S. Van Etten     vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu
       Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute  1000 MIPS GaAs F-RISC Project
       --"If sand didn't irritate oysters, there would be no pearls"--