From: rjh@andante.att.com (Robert Holt)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Least Valuable Players (career)
Date: 11 Apr 92 21:50:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: andante.1992Apr11.215043.1650
Organization: AT&t bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ

In article <reynard.702932234@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu!> reynard@susie.cs.scarolina.edu (John Reynard) writes:
>
>dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:
>
>>I've scanned about half of the _TB_ ratings, and come up with a few of the
>>all-time career LVP candidates.  I'll let you guess who the #1 player on the
>>list so far is.  (Numbers through 1990 season.)
                                                 (No 1991 update seen)
>
>>Player                Batting	        SB runs        	Fielding       Total
>
>>???????????		 -269	         -22		  -32		-323
>>Tom Thevenow		 -297		   0		    9		-289
>>Granny Hamner		 -145		   0		 -138		-283
>>Joe Dugan		 -151		   ?		 -105		-256
>>Ivy Olson		 -216		   ?		  -32		-248
>>Julian Javier		 -182		   3		  -67		-246

Leo Durocher             -260              ?               17           -243

>>Tim Foli		 -297		  -9		   70		-238
>>Felix Millan		 -103		  -6		 -128		-237
>>Rafael Ramirez	 -162		 -11		  -43		-216
>>Denny Doyle		 -138		 -13		  -60		-211
>>Roger Metzger		 -178		   3		  -35		-210
>
>>Dishonorable mention:  Frank DeMaestri, Chico Fernandez, Tito Fuentes, Chick
>>			Galloway, Damaso Garcia, Mario Guerrero, Hal Janvrin,
>>			Billy Martin, Eddie Brinkman, Dal Maxvill.

>>Any guesses on The Champion?
>
>Shawon Dunston or doesn't he have enough playing time to rack up those #'s
>
Bad guess.  -22 stolen base runs and -32 fielding runs?
I thought it was more likely that Dunston has been the best
all around shortstop for the Cubs since Ernie Banks.  While
investigating this, I found someone with a much worse rating
than ???????????, who has been revealed in a subsequent post to be

Alfredo Griffin.  Anyway, the career ratings for shortstops who
played regularly at least a few years for the Cubs during the
last 25 years look like this:

Player                Batting         SB runs         Fielding       Total

Shawon Dunston          -77               8              57           -12
Ivan DeJesus           -145               5              41           -99
Don Kessinger          -283             -21              62          -242

Larry Bowa	       -341 (!)          32             -75          -384

I disagree with this method of determining the least valuable player.
If you're going to accept fielding runs (glorifed range factor
adjusted for strikeouts), then you might as well accept positional
adjustments and give all the above shortstops a break.  Then you're
just using Thorn&Palmer's "Total Player Rating".  IMHO the difference
compared to a "replacement level player" as opposed to "league average"
should be used for a few (2-3) years anyway.  Interesting, using TPR
Bowa does much better (less worse :<) ) than Griffin, -14.3 versus -19.1.
Evidently the average AL SS was a lot better than the average NL SS
during the 80s (influence of Cal Ripken).
-- 
+--------------------------------+
|  Bob Holt                      |
|  rjh@allegra.research.att.com  |
+--------------------------------+