From: twcaps@tennyson.lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Da lu
Date: 31 Aug 1992 03:42:58 GMT
Organization: Department of Redundancy Department
Reply-To: TWChan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.117

david_yeh@MACMAIL.MED.NYU.EDU ("David Yeh") writes:

 +>In the past, I've heard people talk on the Taiji threads that a "practical"
 +>application or exercise (i.e., the next step after push hands exercise) in
 +>Taiji is da lu.  I practice Taiji myself, but I don't really know what da lu
 +>is.  Can someone explain?

robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU(Michael Robinson) writes:
 +[In this article I concede to pinyin and simplified characters]
 +
 +T`a l^"u ("close repeated stepping") is much like pushing hands, but with 
 +moving steps.  In Yang style, at least, the t`a l^"u exercises emphasize 
 +the four diagonal techniques (shoulder stroke, elbow stroke, pull down, and
 +split), as opposed to the four cardinal techniques (wardoff, rollback, press,
 +and push) of pushing hands.  The t`a l^"u exercises teach offensive and
 +defensive footwork, as well as proper distancing.

[In the following, I draw on Wang Peisheng's and Zeng Weiqi's _Wu
Style Taijiquan_ , Ma Yueh-Liang's and Zee Wen's _Wu Style Taichichuan
Push-Hands_ and discussions with a teacher].

In commenting from the perspective of the Wu style, push hands training
takes several progressions.  There are variations with both fixed steps
and moving steps (the moving steps one being more advanced).  

First, there is single hands pushing followed by double hands pushing.
These are done with fixed steps.  These are followed by push hands/
(called "tuishou" to prevent confusion with the previous) with fixed 
and moving steps, then da lu, and the fighting form.  The single and 
double hand pushing and the fixed and moving step tuishou all develop
in various ways, the four basic postures of "pung" (warding), "lu"
(diverting), "ji" (pressing), and "an" (pushing).

After the four basic postures are mastered, Da Lu is next.  Similar to 
Michael's description of the Yang style Da Lu (which isn't surprising
since the Wu style is descended through Yang Lucan and Yang Banhou), 
Wu style Da Lu is then used to train the next four postures of pulling, 
splitting, elbow- striking, and shoulder striking.  I note that Ma's
book translates Da Lu as "Big Diverting" method.  I seem to recall
that Cheng Man-Ching also translates it differently in his _Thirteen
Treatises_.

 +>My teacher teaches Taiji, and for more advanced classes he teaches push hands
 +>yes.  But for us, the next "practical" exercise he teaches is something he
 +>calls san shou.   [other stuff deleted]

To summarize, in the Wu style I am familiar with, push hands has both 
fixed and moving steps training.  Da Lu is one kind of push hands training
that trains beyond the basic four that many people commonly encounter.

The fighting form (commonly referred to as "san shou" or "Lan Cai Hua"
in the Wu style) is also classified as a form of push hands training.


Terry Chan
--
Internet:  TWChan@lbl.gov                  This is illegal, but I know jujitsu
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory                         so I don't care.
Berkeley, California  USA  94720                      
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts