From: EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu
Subject: Re: Chicago Rave Scene/Milw Rave
Organization: Wayne State University, C&IT
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:59:29 GMT

In article <1avffvINN1vb@agate.berkeley.edu>
bbehlen@soda.berkeley.edu (Brian Behlendorf (Vitamin B)) writes:
>In article <1687980B7.EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu> EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Oct6.170402.20489@midway.uchicago.edu>
>>disc@quads.uchicago.edu (Little Fluffy Cloud) writes:
>>>The problem with Chicago is that Southside promoters who used to throw house
>>                                  ^^^^^^^^^
>>>their crowd so that they can charge more money.  I think that's fucked.
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>In spite of the scariness, though, I heard from a few people that "Rave and
>>                 ^^^^^^^^^
>>>Stimpy" was a good time, in spite of all the south-siders there.  (I was in
>>                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Possible translation: south-siders=blacks?
>>>Unfortunately, there are a buncha guidos who also tend to show up, though
>>                                   ^^^^^^
>>Possible translation: guidos=Italians???
>>>doesn't have a Sox jacket on and doesn't look like a gang-banger, try not
>>                                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^
>|Possible translation: gang-bangers=blacks?
>|OK, you like Deee-lite and Underground Resistance, so I'm not going to assume
                                                            ^^^
>|you are a racist, but I do sense some possibly racially biased overtones
>|in your post. I thought the whole rave philosophy was one of unity and
>|peace (as you mention) for all, and that raves were for persons who don't
>|judge others by their clothing, etc.. If you don't want to be PC that's your
>|perogative, but I wish you would elaborate on exactly what is wrong with
                                   ^^^^^^^^^
>|south-siders, and just what is a "guido" anyway?
                         ^^^^^^^
>Oh please.  You're like my English teacher back in high school who could find
>biblical allusions in Mork and Mindy and references to sex in Cat in the Hat.
>If you look hard enough for something, chances are it'll appear to you,
>whether or not it was intentional or even actually present.
 
Can you picture her saying that it's OK to not be PC?
 
>I think Jerry was trying to distinguish between different kinds of _crowds_
>that appear at parties - and these distinct crowds have distinct attitudes
>that can make or break a good event.  I don't know the demographics of
>Chicago, so I don't know if _everyone_ in the south-side is black, so I
 
I do, and practically all of them are. The "house party" comments were a
bit of a clue too.
 
>can't extrapolate that when he says south-siders he means blacks.  Ask Jerry
>what he would think if a black man walked up to him, smiled, danced, gave
>him a hug, and he'd probably be thrilled.  Same thing with Italians, or any
 
Basically, I *was* asking. I explicitly wrote that I won't assume he is
a racist. And I asked him to elaborate on problems he has with south siders
and guidos.
 
>race.  I mean, for all we know Jerry _himself_ might be black!
 
>There is a ton of racism in the music world, that I will not deny.  But I will
>deny that it exists with such prevalence in the rave scene.
 
And anyone who says otherwise should just shut up, huh?
 
Look, we are both doing a good job of reacting here. I tried to be rational,
and just asked about something that was on my mind. When I want to look
at examples of individuals in a supposedly philosophically unified group
who think contrary to the cause, I just look at my ex-hippy friend who I'll
call Bob. Bob isn't big into acid or dope these days, but he still wears his
hair long, has a beard & listens to that good old hippy rock music, and when
he isn't recruiting for the NRA, he reads the Wall Street Jornal, votes
republican, and tells off-color sexist & racist jokes. The moral here is
don't assume the guy next to you at the rave is as nice as you are.
 
 
--Eric
 
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