HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rankin@eql.caltech.edu (Pat Rankin)
Newsgroups: vmsnet.admin
Subject: Re: CFD: VMSNET Alpha newsgroup
Date: 20 Nov 1992 19:38 PST
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: eql10.caltech.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

> vmsnet.alphaAXP.whatever

     Newsgroup names are not case sensitive, so please don't present ones
which rely on that to convey something.  Anyway I thought that "AXP"
superceded the development name "Alpha", so "alphaaxp" is not only ugly
but redundant.  Use a hyphen if you want to tack two things together.

     The login banner on an Alpha running VMS says "OpenVMS AXP (tm)"
(where VAX/VMS still says "VAX/VMS", without the extra marketeers' nonsense)
and there's no mention of "Alpha" to be seen.  Personally I prefer "Alpha/VMS" 
and "VAX/VMS" and hope to relegate "OpenVMS" to the circular file where
it belongs.

     An Alpha porting group would be useful, but VMS is still VMS and
there's no need for separate groups for regular software.  I can't imagine
why someone would propose an OSF/1 or WindowsNT group in the vmsnet
hierarchy though.  Haven't we been through this several times before?

		Pat Rankin, rankin@eql.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: gnu.chess
From: chess@rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Juergen Lang)
Subject: Develop a chess program
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:26:46 GMT
Organization: TU Darmstadt
Keywords: Just do it!


Hi everybody out there!

I am developing a chessprogram for quite a while now. I have passed all basic 
problems like testing for illegal moves, making a tree list and so on. The
program is now able to play "a game", but it is not too successful.

My question is: I am searching for useable algorithms to improve:

1. Alpha-Beta pruning
2. Hashing 
3. Valuation in certain situations. (stratetic moves). 
   Does anybody know the 'Opfermann'-strategie of playing chess?


Also I am interested to discuss cartain problems of playing chess and
chess-programing with anybody who is interested in.
From: det@hawkmoon.mn.org (Derek Terveer)
Newsgroups: gnu.chess
Subject: xboard 2.0 pl22 problems
Date: 16 Nov 92 04:01:55 GMT
Organization: Demi-Public System (One of the Eternal Champions); Eagan, MN, 55123-2507, USA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

I have compiled xboard 2.0 pl22 as well as gnuchess 4.0 pl58 and when i
run xboard it pops up a very nice chess board in my xwindows and then
immediately gives me the error:

hawkmoon:xboard-2.0$ ./xboard
xboard: can't open pseudo-tty
No such file or directory

I have tried to figure out what is going on there and it looks like
xboard is trying to get a psuedo-tty in order to spawn off the gnuchessx
program, but it is failing.  The xboard that comes with XFree86 works
fine in this regard.  The problem i have with that xboard (can't tell
what version it is) is that when invoked in its default mode, i.e., just
"xboard", and the five minutes of time expire for black (the computer),
xboard will put up a message "Black's flag dropped" and go into an
infinite loop just printing that.  I have not been able to figure out a
way of getting past that point.

I have tried a number of different compiles, including gcc, /usr/ucb/cc,
cc, various optimizations and load options.  All to no avail.

What am i doing wrong here?  I would use the older(?) xboard that comes
with XFree86 but it generally won't get past black's 2nd or 3rd move
because its time expires...

sigh.

derek
-- 
Derek Terveer   Work:	derekt@stpaul.gov	+1 612 292 6009
		Play:	det@hawkmoon.mn.org	+1 612 683 0413
"Big business and big government distract us with entertainment;
 they manufacture our consent while we destroy the environment."
From: duong@chestnut.chem.upenn.edu (Duc Duong)
Newsgroups: gnu.chess
Subject: Re: xboard 2.0 pl22 problems
Date: 17 Nov 92 16:30:06 GMT
Organization: UPENN NMR-Biochemistry Graduate Research Lab

In article <1992Nov16.040155.1183@hawkmoon.mn.org>, det@hawkmoon.mn.org (Derek Terveer) writes:
|> I have compiled xboard 2.0 pl22 as well as gnuchess 4.0 pl58 and when i
|> run xboard it pops up a very nice chess board in my xwindows and then
|> immediately gives me the error:
|> 
|> hawkmoon:xboard-2.0$ ./xboard
|> xboard: can't open pseudo-tty
|> No such file or directory
|> 
|> I have tried to figure out what is going on there and it looks like
|> xboard is trying to get a psuedo-tty in order to spawn off the gnuchessx
|> program, but it is failing.  The xboard that comes with XFree86 works
|> fine in this regard.  The problem i have with that xboard (can't tell
|> what version it is) is that when invoked in its default mode, i.e., just
|> "xboard", and the five minutes of time expire for black (the computer),
|> xboard will put up a message "Black's flag dropped" and go into an
|> infinite loop just printing that.  I have not been able to figure out a
|> way of getting past that point.
|> 

 I have the same problem when I installed the Xboard2.0,pl25. I have no problem when compile the program on SGI310VGX/RISC4000, IRIX4.05 but when I start Xboard the Xboard window popup sucessfully about 1-2 secs then it crash. The error message is that: 
xboard: can't open pseudo-tty
no such file or directory

I think the problem is not installation procedure..some how I have to specify the path for the pseudo-tty file..etc..Is there any one have a way getting around this? Email please..Thank you..

duc
From: mann@src.dec.com (Tim Mann)
Newsgroups: gnu.chess
Subject: Re: xboard 2.0 pl22 problems
Date: 19 Nov 92 20:13:53 GMT
Organization: DEC Systems Research Center

To compile xboard for IRIX, you need to add -DIRIX to the DEFINES line
in the Imakefile.  Then type 

	rm xboard.o
	make Makefile
	make

This info should be added to the documentation.

	--Tim
From: cracraft@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu (Stuart Cracraft)
Newsgroups: gnu.chess
Subject: Re: Is there a mail-address for bug reports about Gnuchess ?
Date: 21 Nov 1992 23:14:01 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
Distribution: gnu
NNTP-Posting-Host: rice-chex.ai.mit.edu

In article <1992Nov21.152907.9479@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> schoenfr@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (Erik Schoenfelder) writes:
>Hi!
>
>Or should this group be used. I have not found a address for bug
>reports in the gnuchess distribution.
>
>Thanx, Erik.



Sorry, you should send your bug reports for GNU Chess to
bug-gnu-chess@prep.ai.mit.edu.

Please include the version number and patch number of the
GNU Chess for which you are reporting the bug.

--Stuart
Newsgroups: gnu.chess
From: schoenfr@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (Erik Schoenfelder)
Subject: Is there a mail-address for bug reports about Gnuchess ?
Originator: schoenfr@ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de
Reply-To: schoenfr@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (Erik Schoenfelder)
Organization: TU Braunschweig, Informatik (Bueltenweg), Germany
Distribution: gnu
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 15:29:07 GMT

Hi!

Or should this group be used. I have not found a address for bug
reports in the gnuchess distribution.

Thanx, Erik.
Newsgroups: gnu.chess
From: shugrue@spatial (Leon Shugrue)
Subject: gnu chess
Organization: ANL
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:27:17 GMT

Is gnu chess a chess program? If so, where can I get a 
copy. Or at least a copy of some chess program.

Leon Shugrue 
shugrue@spatial.eid.anl.gov
From: cracraft@wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu (Stuart Cracraft)
Newsgroups: gnu.chess
Subject: Re: GnuChess 4.0 ported to DOS?
Date: 22 Nov 1992 15:06:31 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
Distribution: gnu
NNTP-Posting-Host: wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu

In article <2b0db322.farpoint@farpoint.tucson.az.us> cr@farpoint.tucson.az.US (Clint Ruoho) writes:
>Has anybody ported GnuChess 4.0 to DOS yet?  If so, then where
>can I FTP it?
>
>Thanks,
>cr@farpoint.tucson.az.us

It has been ported to DOS. You need to get the latest version.
See my earlier post on how to get GNU in order to get this version.

If you have any trouble, send a note to bug-gnu-chess@prep.ai.mit.edu

	Stuart

Newsgroups: gnu.chess
From: p7003ag@sun1.LRZ-Muenchen.DE ()
Subject: Human-Human via XBoard2.0?
Keywords: Human XBoard gnuchess
Organization: Leibniz-Rechenzentrum, Muenchen (Germany)
Distribution: all
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 13:41:04 GMT


Hi again,

I had to repost this question to all.
I'm searching for a way to enable two people on different machines to play
chess against each other via XBoard 2.0.
If anybody has a solution to this Problem please let me know.

Alaric (p7003ag@sun1.lrz-muenchen.de)
Newsgroups: gnu.chess
From: det@hawkmoon.mn.org (Derek Terveer)
Subject: Re: xboard 2.0 pl22 problems
Organization: Demi-Public System (One of the Eternal Champions); Eagan, MN, 55123-2507, USA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 06:24:02 GMT

Duc Duong (duong@chestnut.chem.upenn.edu) wrote:
:  I have the same problem when I installed the Xboard2.0,pl25. I have no problem when compile the program on SGI310VGX/RISC4000, IRIX4.05 but when I start Xboard the Xboard window popup sucessfully about 1-2 secs then it crash. The error message is that: 
: xboard: can't open pseudo-tty
: no such file or directory
: 
: I think the problem is not installation procedure..some how I have to specify the path for the pseudo-tty file..etc..Is there any one have a way getting around this? Email please..Thank you..

I discovered that i had missed one of the system v defines,
specifically, SVR4.  I had only defined SYSV and after the addition of
SVR4 to the Makefile, it worked fine!

derek
-- 
Derek Terveer   Work:	derekt@stpaul.gov	+1 612 292 6009
		Play:	det@hawkmoon.mn.org	+1 612 683 0413
"Big business and big government distract us with entertainment;
 they manufacture our consent while we destroy the environment."
Newsgroups: gnu.chess
From: p7003ag@sun1.LRZ-Muenchen.DE ()
Subject: XBoard 2.0
Keywords: human-human playing
Organization: Leibniz-Rechenzentrum, Muenchen (Germany)
Distribution: lrz
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 13:29:09 GMT


Yoho !

I'm searching for a possibility to let two users on different machines play
chess against one another using XBoard 2.0.
I think many people might have had the same idea, so there could easily
be a solution to my problem already. If anybody can give me a hint,
please mail me.

Alaric

(p7003ag@sun1.lrz-muenchen.de)
From: cracraft@wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu (Stuart Cracraft)
Newsgroups: gnu.chess
Subject: Re: gnu chess
Date: 22 Nov 1992 15:05:02 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu

In article <72238516429299@spatial> shugrue@spatial (Leon Shugrue) writes:
>In article <1992Nov19.120242.17133@daimi.aau.dk> tusk@daimi.aau.dk (Martin M|ller Pedersen) writes:
>>shugrue@spatial (Leon Shugrue) writes:
>>
>>>Is gnu chess a chess program? If so, where can I get a 
>>>copy. Or at least a copy of some chess program.
>>
>>>Leon Shugrue 
>>>shugrue@spatial.eid.anl.gov
>>
>>You need to tell what machine you are using and with operating system!
>>I will gladly help if you tell that.
>>
>
>The system here at the lab is a typical Sun workstation under SunOS Release 4.1.1.
>As I'm far from the sysad, I don't know a whole lot more, but I could find out
>if that's not enough.
>
>Leon Shugrue 
>shugrue@spatial.eid.anl.gov

This is all relatively unimportant. GNU Chess will run on everything
from a PC to a Cray with little trouble at all.

For the uninitiated, GNU Chess is a chess program I started in 1984. There
have been at least a half-dozen major rewrites and revisions since then
by both American and European groups.

Follow the advice in my posting on "How to get GNU Chess" (which,
unfortunately, has the Usenet subject title "re: gnu.chess"). I cannot
service requests from people who are not on the Internet. They will either
have to find a UUCP site or pay FSF for a copy of the distribution tape.

There are adequate instructions in the distribution that describe how
to get the distribution compiled and installed. It helps but is not essential
for you to have GNU's C-compiler. At the very least, it compiles a more
efficienct code and produces a program that plays a stronger game of chess
due to increased speed.

Stuart
From: maufu@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr P S Pelton)
Newsgroups: gnu.chess
Subject: Re: Is this move valid?
Date: 17 Nov 1992 18:42:34 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
Distribution: gnu
NNTP-Posting-Host: lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk

In article <1dst5fINN6t5@NYAYA.SYSTEMSZ.CS.YALE.EDU> tsioutsias-dimitris@cs.yale.edu (Dimitris Ioannis Tsioutsias) writes:
>I want to know if the following move is valid (I think is called
>an-passan (?)) That is, you move your pawn from its initial position
>(*2 for the whites or *7 for the blacks) two places forward and
>get the pawn of your opponent that is resting in the same row that
>your pawn ends but one column to the left or right. So, you don't
>get it by moving diagonaly, but for a pawn's 1st move that's allowed.
>
>Please let me know if this move is valid or not.
>
>->dimitris
>
The en-passent (French- in passing I think) rule is that any pawn moving
two squares forward may be captured by an enemy pawn that can move to
the square the original pawn moved through. An example may help.
White plays e2e4/ pk2-k4
a black pawn on f4 or d4 / kb5 or q5 can move to e3/k6 removing the white
pawn on e4/k4.

This move must be played immediately by black or the opportunity is lost.

The rule came about because pawns could only move 1 square at a time. This
made games rather slow, and pawns were given 2 moves at the start. The
en-passent rule was introduced to compensate.

Hope this helped, 
                Phil
From: cracraft@wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu (Stuart Cracraft)
Newsgroups: gnu.chess
Subject: Re: gnu chess
Date: 22 Nov 1992 15:00:45 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu

In article <72213283722719@spatial> shugrue@spatial (Leon Shugrue) writes:
>Is gnu chess a chess program? If so, where can I get a 
>copy. Or at least a copy of some chess program.
>
>Leon Shugrue 
>shugrue@spatial.eid.anl.gov

HOW TO GET GNU CHESS

Use anonymous ftp to reach prep.ai.mit.edu on the Internet
(18.71.0.38). Connect to the directory pub/gnu/. Get the file
gnuchess-X.Y.tar.Z. Where X.Y is the highest version number
you see in the pub/gnu directory for the prefix gnuchess*.
(Find this with "dir gnuchess*").

Stuart


Newsgroups: gnu.chess
From: cr@farpoint.tucson.az.US (Clint Ruoho)
Subject: GnuChess 4.0 ported to DOS?
Organization: GNUs Not Usenet
Distribution: gnu
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 03:55:12 GMT

Has anybody ported GnuChess 4.0 to DOS yet?  If so, then where
can I FTP it?

Thanks,
cr@farpoint.tucson.az.us


Newsgroups: gnu.chess
From: shugrue@spatial (Leon Shugrue)
Subject: Re: gnu chess
Organization: ANL
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 22:32:44 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.120242.17133@daimi.aau.dk> tusk@daimi.aau.dk (Martin M|ller Pedersen) writes:
>shugrue@spatial (Leon Shugrue) writes:
>
>>Is gnu chess a chess program? If so, where can I get a 
>>copy. Or at least a copy of some chess program.
>
>>Leon Shugrue 
>>shugrue@spatial.eid.anl.gov
>
>You need to tell what machine you are using and with operating system!
>I will gladly help if you tell that.
>

The system here at the lab is a typical Sun workstation under SunOS Release 4.1.1.
As I'm far from the sysad, I don't know a whole lot more, but I could find out
if that's not enough.

Leon Shugrue 
shugrue@spatial.eid.anl.gov

Newsgroups: gnu.chess
From: absmaier@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Fritz Absmaier)
Subject: NeXT	
Originator: absmaier@hphalle3e.informatik.tu-muenchen.de
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:38:57 GMT


Hello,
did anyone manage to get gnuchess4.pl60 to run on a NeXT machine?
After some trying I could compile it. It started up fine but when
I enter in my first move it goes down with a bus error.
Thanks in advance

Fritz Absmaier
absmaier@informatik.tu-muenchen.de

Newsgroups: gnu.chess
From: mann@src.dec.com (Tim Mann)
Subject: Re: xboard 2.0 pl25 problems
Organization: DEC Systems Research Center
Distribution: gnu
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 02:50:17 GMT


Oops, sorry for that blunder.  The fix is to change the declaration of
yylexstr near the top of xboard.c.

< extern ChessMove yylexstr P((void));
-----
> extern ChessMove yylexstr P((int boardIndex, char *s));

	--Tim
Newsgroups: gnu.chess
From: tusk@daimi.aau.dk (Martin M|ller Pedersen)
Subject: Re: gnu chess
Organization: DAIMI: Computer Science Department, Aarhus University, Denmark
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 12:02:42 GMT

shugrue@spatial (Leon Shugrue) writes:

>Is gnu chess a chess program? If so, where can I get a 
>copy. Or at least a copy of some chess program.

>Leon Shugrue 
>shugrue@spatial.eid.anl.gov

You need to tell what machine you are using and with operating system!
I will gladly help if you tell that.

Newsgroups: gnu.chess
From: gary@st.unocal.com (Gary Cattelino)
Subject: Re: Is there a mail-address for bug reports about Gnuchess ?
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Distribution: gnu
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:47:49 GMT

I just finished my game with gnuchess-4.0.pl60 and won!  This version
of gnuchess seems to have fixed the bugs I had with 3.1.  Also, I like
xboard much better than xchess.  Gnuchess-3.1 refused to respond to my
move #17 of Nb3; it thought for over 24 hours before I killed it.
Gnuchess-4.0 responded almost immediately, so I could finish my game.

I must say, I'm a little disappointed that gnuchess allowed my to
checkmate it so easily.  It chose to take a pawn instead of preventing
the checkmate.  Someone may want to look at this, it might be a bug.

Here's my game.  It's half in english and half algebraic notation
because I changed from gnuchess-3.1/xchess to gnuchess-4.0/xboard
in the middle.

# xboard game file -- Sun Nov 22 22:54:57 1992
        gary@yogi vs. gnuchessx@localhost
        algebraic
 1. P/k2-k4          P/qb2-qb4
 2. N/kn1-kb3        P/q2-q3
 3. P/q2-q4          P/qb4xP/q5
 4. N/kb3xP/q4       N/kn1-kb3
 5. N/qn1-qb3        P/qr2-qr3
 6. B/kb1-k2         P/k2-k4
 7. N/q4-qn3         B/kb1-k2
 8. O-O              O-O
 9. B/qb1-k3         N/qn1-q2
10. P/kb2-kb4        Q/q1-qb2
11. P/kb4xP/k5       P/q3xP/k4
12. B/k3-kn5         N/q2-qb4
13. B/kn5xN/kb6      B/k2xB/kb3
14. N/qb3-q5         Q/qb2-q2
15. N/q5xB/kb6+      P/kn2xN/kb3
16. N/qn3xN/qb5      Q/q2-k2
17. Nb3 Be6
18. Bg4 Rac8
19. Bxe6 fxe6
20. Qg4 Kh8
21. Rf2 f5
22. exf5 exf5
23. Rxf5 Rxc2
24. Rxf8 Qxf8
25. Rf1 Qg8
26. Qe4 Rxb2
27. Qxe5 Qg7
28. Rf8 White wins

-- 
Gary A. Cattelino                  Unocal Corporate Information Services
Phone: (714) 693-6762              5460 E. La Palma Ave.
INTERNET: gary@unocal.COM          Anaheim, CA 92807
From: ks@cs.tut.fi (Syst{ Kari)
Newsgroups: gnu.chess
Subject: xboard 2.0 pl25 problems
Date: 20 Nov 92 11:44:49
Organization: Tampere Univ. of Technology, Finland.
Distribution: gnu
NNTP-Posting-Host: karikukko.cs.tut.fi


% make
rm -f parser.c
lex  -t parser.l > parser.c
614/1000 nodes(%e), 1796/2500 positions(%p), 256/500 (%n), 11357 transitions
, 885/1000 packed char classes(%k), 2368/5000 packed transitions(%a), 3195/5000 output slots(%o)
gcc -O   -I/usr/include     -DHAS_GETTIMEOFDAY   -target sun4 -c  parser.c
gcc -O   -I/usr/include     -DHAS_GETTIMEOFDAY   -target sun4 -c  xboard.c
xboard.c: In function MakeAlg:
xboard.c:1404: too many arguments to function `yylexstr'
xboard.c:1415: too many arguments to function `yylexstr'
xboard.c:1434: too many arguments to function `yylexstr'
xboard.c:1442: too many arguments to function `yylexstr'
xboard.c:1449: too many arguments to function `yylexstr'
xboard.c:1460: too many arguments to function `yylexstr'
*** Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `xboard.o'

--
% This article represents my personal views.
% Kari Systa, Tampere Univ. Technology, Box 553, 33101 Tampere, Finland
% work: +358 31 162585      fax: +358 31 162913      home: +358 31 177412
% Internet: ks@cs.tut.fi    X.400: C=fi ADMD=fumail O=TUT OU=CS S=ks
Newsgroups: gnu.chess
From: mann@src.dec.com (Tim Mann)
Subject: Re: XBoard 2.0
Keywords: human-human playing
Organization: DEC Systems Research Center
Distribution: lrz
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 20:17:28 GMT


If anyone writes code for human-human playing in xboard, please send
it to me and I will merge it into the next release.

Right now I'm merging in some code from John Chanak to let xboard be a
front end to the Internet Chess Server.  This provides human-human
playing using the chess server as an intermediary.  You can get John's
version of the code via FTP from valkyries.andrew.cmu.edu if you're in
a hurry.

	--Tim
From: news@athena.mit.edu (News system)
Newsgroups: gnu.gnusenet.test
Subject: testing distribution.
Date: 23 Nov 1992 02:37:29 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: gnu
NNTP-Posting-Host: enterpoop.mit.edu

testing distribution of the GNUsgroups..
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
From: randy@kcin.alphacdc.com (Randy S. Welch)
Subject: Re: GNU stuff is a pain to install, and I can't get any help!
Organization: Randy's own unix box..
	<1992Nov20.234315.5743@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 07:42:23 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.234315.5743@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> bogstad@blaze.cs.jhu.edu (Bill Bogstad) writes:

[... comments on installing GNU code ...]

I've been installing GNU code on my machine at home and at work for the
past 3 years, if anything ( imho ) the GNU code has gotten *much* easier
to install on the systems I  work on.  These systems are not your state of
the art equipment either.  These are old SystemV.2 Plexus 680X0 platforms.

Granted I didn't use cpio 1.x (x>1) cause it would never run right (  2.x does
), and I had to edit tar1.0X code to get it to run on the Plexus, but now,
Configure does all the work and I make a tweak to the Makefiles and off it
runs.  And that goes for nearly every GNU package out threre (  well at least
those in a Plain Jane SysV environment ).

Granted it took awhile to get gcc going, but that was working around a
compiler that would create code that would crash our systems, and getting
a real assembler going.  At least now I have a real C/C++ compier for my
antique. ( ie. puts out better code that the compiler use to originally
bootstrap gcc ).

Just my .02

-randy

-- 
Randy Welch   also known as..       (home) randy@kcin.alphacdc.com
Boulder, CO                           or   randy%kcin@csn.org
"MS-DOS is to computing as the      (uucp) {csn,scicom}!kcin!randy
 black plague was to Europe" - NH   
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss