HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kens@psc.lsa.umich.edu (Ken Small)
Subject: Location of DC Cities
Organization: University of Michigan Population Studies Center
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 23:42:12 GMT

In article <1992Jul19.122949.13740@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> rekle@loligo.cc.fsu.edu (Rick Ekle (CompSci)) writes:
>
>Metropolis = New York (that's pretty obvious)
>
>Gotham City = I'm not positive but I get the impression it is Chicago.
>
>Central City = some city in Florida (Miami?)

The old line was that Gotham/Metropolis were twin cities, usually in New
Jersey.  Central City is clearly midwest (as many comics make a point of
Barry Allen's and Wally West midwestern personalities).  I always figured
that Central City was somewhere in Ohio.  I also believe that Midway City
(home of Hawkman) is usually placed in Michigan, somewhere near Lake Michigan.
I like this one, since that's where I'm from.  :) (reference-- Tony Isabella's
Hawkman series)

[These placements were the ones touted in the late 70's early 80's-- some
have clearly changed since then.  Note Byrne's placement on Metropolis
somewhere off of the East coast.]
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics,rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: New Titans #89
Summary: 
Expires: 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics,rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: New Titans #89
Summary: 
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: University of Michigan Population Studies Center
Keywords: 

In article <1992Jul19.122949.13740@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> rekle@loligo.cc.fsu.edu (Rick Ekle (CompSci)) writes:
>
>Metropolis = New York (that's pretty obvious)
>
>Gotham City = I'm not positive but I get the impression it is Chicago.
>
>Central City = some city in Florida (Miami?)

The old line was that Gotham/Metropolis were twin cities, usually in New
Jersey.  Central City is clearly midwest (as many comics make a point of
Barry Allen's and Wally West midwestern personalities).  I always figured
that Central City was somewhere in Ohio.  I also believe that Midway City
(home of Hawkman) is usually placed in Michigan, somewhere near Lake Michigan.
I like this one, since that's where I'm from.  :) (reference-- Tony Isabella's
Hawkman series)

[These placements were the ones touted in the late 70's early 80's-- some
have clearly changed since then.  Note Byrne's placement on Metropolis
somewhere off of the East coast.]
-- 
Ken Small                    The Ann Arbor Art Fair: Not Art and Not Fair
kens@umich.edu
Consulting and Support Services, University of Michigan
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David VanDomelen)
Subject: Re: DC/CHARLTON: Booster Gold
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 00:35:44 GMT

Refer to the DC Cosmic Cards for all three versions of Beetle: the golden ager 
who took Vitamin X-2 (or the like), Mr. Kaji Ra of the Silver Age Charltons, 
and Ted Kord.
     Dave Van Domelen, read about the original Beetle in a book from the 
library and was confused as hell when neither one in Blue Beetle #1 was him
From: lf7z@ellis.uchicago.edu (glenn alan carnagey jr)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Crisis on Infinite Earths, 6 years later (was Re: JSA#1:BUY IT...)
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:39:41 GMT
Reply-To: lf7z@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Jul24.080634.1502@midway.uchicago.edu> mss2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <ISBELL.92Jul24003248@pop-tarts.ai.mit.edu> isbell@ai.mit.edu (Charles L Isbell) writes:
>>Well, I wouldn't call it a failure, really but it could be confused.
>>It seems to me that there are two kinds of fans we need concern

      I would, without hesitation.  Things are much more complicated
than they were, it's much more difficult to do something radically
different with an character, unless one completely ignores what
has gone before, which can only get more common, given the situation.

>>ourselves with:  those that knew and understood the DC multiverse &
>>Crisis and those that didn't.
>
>>For the first group, well, they can figure out the doublethink
>>necessary to foloow the current continuity.  And for the last group,
>>well it's all new to them and so it doesn't really matter.
>
>	I'm not sure that that's true.  After all, the Hawkman patch
>happened well after the Crisis.  Someone who began reading DC comics
>in the late eighties has to practice the same doublethink with respect
>to Hawkman, the LSH, and others.

It's not true.  I started reading comics in '67, I was six years old,
I had no problem understanding an annual visit to earth 2, or an
imaginary story that took place somewhere else (unless of course
it was Bizarro World).  But I gave up on comics when they got so
bad in the later '70s (slowly, mind you) and came back around '85,
slowly, again.  I'm still trying to figure out all these silly retcons
The problem here is *retroactive*.  The current DC _uni_verse is *much*
more difficult to keep up with than the old one was.  Much of it I've
given up on (e.g. LSH, Titans, JLx, GLx, anything even remotely having
to do with Atlantis) due to unintentionally schizophrenic characters with
overly complicated soap-operatic histories.  And I've become a big fan
of books that ignore the rest of the _uni_verse, or just spoof it like
the Demon.  Incidentally, I agree with most of what Mike said in the rest
of his post, esp. the following:

>	If DC actually were moving towards stability, they might claim
>that they had made things simpler, but as long as they're willing to
>allow gratuitous retconning, they've made the universe harder, not
>easier, to understand.

Amen, bro.

Pax ex machina,
Glenn
............................................................
"I ... am ... Ubermaus!"
  --- Black Veitch
g-carnagey@uchicago.edu, if you must know
............................................................
Organization: Robotics Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: cje@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Cthulhu's Jersey Epopt)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Metropolis/Gotham/NYC (was Re: New Titans #89)
Date: 29 Jul 92 18:51:16 GMT
Organization: Miskatonic U. Computer Operations & User Services

caw@gtech.com (Christopher A. White) writes:

>Color me lost, but, I thought that according to the maps, et al in the DC 
>Heros game, Gotham was actually Rhode Island.

You mean Providence, Rhode Island, no?  Gotham's not big enough to be an entire
state.

Anyway, what the DC Heroes books say is valid only for DC Heroes games.  If
they've taken the info from the comics, then it's obviously valid for the
comics, but the role-playing games in general invent too much info
(necessarily, for playability's sake) to be taken as legitimate sources for
the comics.

-- 
Yog-Sothoth Neblod Zin,

Chris Jarocha-Ernst			Rutgers University Computing Services
Internet: cje@gandalf.rutgers.edu       BITnet: JAROCHAERNST@ZODIAC
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: New Titans #90
Date: 25 Jul 92 06:13:57 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

The two teams meet, and rather than talk long enough to determine that
both are on the side of angels, they fight.  Oh well, at least it has
the virtue of originality.

What's that, you say?  It doesn't?  Oh well, at least having the Titans
break in through the wall rather than use a door has the virtue of
familiarity.

Quibbling aside, the past couple of issues have been far better than
the trash that characterized the title throughout the Titans Hunt
storyline.  Titans fans who were gritting their teeth and wondering
whether to admit defeat and drop the title will probably decide to hold
off a bit longer.  I have.  Now if we could just have a bit less fighting...

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

"The death of God left the angels in a strange position."
	--Internal documentation, programmer unknown
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:15:11 -0400 
From: "Andrew C. Plotkin" <ap1i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Sandman 41: the many titles

Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.comics.misc: 29-Jul-92 Sandman 41: the
many titles Joseph Brenner@leland.St (1246)

> BLOSSOM OF A LADY
> RAIN IN THE DOORWAY
> WANT/NOT WANT
> THE VIEW FROM THE BACKS OF MIRRORS
> JOURNAL OF THE PLAGUE YEAR
> "THE NUMBER YOU HAVE DIALED..."

Also
NOT HER SISTER?

(I may have the pronoun wrong -- "HER", "MY", or "YOUR".)

Which refers to the bit where Delerium sees someone who isn't her
sister, and then Desire, who is only her sister half the time.

Which reminds me. Which gender do you all percieve Desire as? The art
has almost always seemed definitely feminine to me, with just a couple
of ambiguous frames here and there. (Such as at the party in #41, in the
white jacket -- which somehow brought Michael Jackson irresistably to
mind.)

However, Desire *should* be female to me. (Nudge nudge, wink wink.) Does
it vary appropriately for other readers?

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: The Heckler
Date: 25 Jul 92 05:40:28 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

I don't know about this.  I really don't know.  It's funny, it's clever,
but a steady diet of "The Heckler" might be like a steady diet of treacle.

Keith Giffen seems to have taken his artistic propensities to their
logical conclusion:  Instead of drawing facial features which are hidden
by shade or angle of view, he has created characters lacking half their
facial features.  Efficient, I suppose.  The extreme example of this is
El Gusano, who looks just like some of Giffen's thirtieth-century aliens.
How *does* he keep his glasses on without ears or a nose?

The slapstick seems to owe a great deal to Hanna-Barbara.

It wasn't a bad read but, again, it's hard to tell whether this title
would have any staying power.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   If you're going to write, don't pretend to write down.  It's going to be the
   best you can do, and it's the fact that it's the best you can do that kills
   you! -- Dorothy Parker
Organization: Robotics Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:17:09 -0400 
From: "David M. Pahnos" <dp0q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Showcase
	<1992Jul30.053813.2991@zia.aoc.nrao.edu>


It was mentioned in that editorial page thing you find at the back of
most DC books these days; basically it is going to be a place for
characters who probably cannot support a book themselves to be
featured (Marvel has something similar but I'm blanking on the name
right now).  The name is from the original Showcase title, which ran
back in the 70's I believe (that's what I get for just skimming the
editorial page 'thing' 8-).


And I hope will be the vehicle for all of us writers to finally break
into comics.  They have used the Showcase title for such projects before
(Talent Showcase).  Mindy Newell and other famous people got started
there.


michael j pastor iii
guest on davids account
From: katie@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Katie Schwarz)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Green Lantern Stuff
Date: 29 Jul 1992 01:00:21 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu

tyg@dip.eecs.umich.edu (Tom Galloway) writes:
>
>Hal's identity isn't being well handled. Goldface, a major enemy of his,
>knows his ID and can and should reveal it at any time. Hal's also quite
>careless with it, save that sometimes he acts like it matters.
>
What exactly does Goldface know -- just Hal's name? In Green Lantern 28
he encounters Hal in street clothes, and has no clue who he is. (I know
the thing about the mask making him completely unrecognizable isn't too
realistic, but I'm willing to accept it since it's a clearly stated rule.)

...........................
katie@physics.berkeley.edu

Hal Jordan: "I once heard a commentator say that Superman was Apollonian,
             and Batman was Dionysian."
Metamorpho: "Then he was an idiot!"           --Justice League Europe 41
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David VanDomelen)
Subject: Re: Doom Patrol FF send-up
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 01:35:34 GMT

Actually, although she had Rita Farr's powers, she was called by one of Crazy 
Jane's names (I think Kay Challis), not Rita.  This is what I remember, since 
it struck me as odd to be using Jane in Rita's role.
     Dave Van Domelen, on a green-screen terminal, so I can't type the word 
y*****w.
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: LSH #33
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:09:58 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee):
>Except this still doesn't work!  Why did he get Lightning Lad's personality?
>OK, you explained away why he has Proty's memories...

I'm not too upset about this problem.  It's sloppy science fiction, in
that we're being asked to accept a critical technological premise
without reasonable support.  That's not in the same class as the moon
fiasco, though.  In the latter case, we're being asked to throw out
what we know about the fundamentals of physics.  In the cloning case,
we're just being asked to assume an inadequately justified technology.
Granted, there is no good reason to expect memory, personality, DNA, and 
RNA to interact the way they do here.

From a comic-writing standpoint, the notion that Proty could get away with
the secret is a more serious problem, as it involves *many* (mostly minor)
retcons.  To document this, Rich Place (in Klordny) put together five
pages of photocopy clippings showing

	-- Imra routinely reading Garth's mind at home
	-- Occasionally reading his mind in the line of duty
	-- The psychological profile computer where the
		Legionnaires' files are stored, with all
		their deepest fears and darkest secrets
		(There are actually good reasons to retcon this away)
	-- Numerous thought balloons in which Garth thinks of
		Ayla as his sister and Mekt as his brother, on
		a highly emotional level.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

  The surface of the strange, forbidden planet was roughly textured and green,
  much like cottage cheese gets way after the date on the lid says it is all 
  right to buy it.--Scott Jones
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: mlj44080@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael Lee Jacobs)
Subject: Character Aging and Terminator annual #1 (spoilers)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:35:06 GMT

Well colored my shocked when our recent discussion on aging was brought up
in the latest annual of Terminator.  It occurs when Nightwing breaks down
emotionally when he sees the remains of Raven and Joe's portraits that 
were Salavaged by Salvagion [aside: this character seems to have a horrendous
ammount of possiblity...Salvagion mihgt be a nice place for a new base....]
Anyway...he starts crying and says "they shouldnt be gone. None of Us are
over twenty-one. Were NOT supposed to die."
	Well if Mr. Grayson is only 20 then we have a severe continuity problem
seeing as a) he and donna look alot older.  b) all of theTitans have been
through at least 2 years of college...including Raven  c)Dick quit college
right before joinging the Titans 3 years ago (as shown in their third 
anniversary dinner before the Hunt)  So he graduated high-school at the age
of 14-15??????   *sigh* when is Dc going to bite the bullet and age these chars


-- 
  "If the best things in life are free, then my current price is
   $37k with a 10% downpayment."
From: sl859@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Robots in Comicdom
Date: 30 Jul 92 13:34:21 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

	A lot of talk has got me thinking about something that
probably most of you have already noticed, but I will reiterate.
Robots are perfect in comics, because quite a few convenient factors:
	1)  Robots can be great villains.  They are heartless and cannot
relate to the "human" quality in life.  They just follow instructions, 
and can become terrible enemies even by accident.  (Ultron or Nimrod)
	2)  Robots can be torn apart, mangled and "killed" without
criminal intervention or guilt from most everyone.  (Sentinels, Various
IronMan enemies, etc.)
	3)  Robots can be clones or look alikes of real villains, which
seems to satiate some readers I suppose.  Since you get to see the villain
mutilated but the evil villain can come back and fight another day.  This 
is also why clones come in so handily.  (Kang, Mr. Sinister, Doombots)
	4)  I forgot number four and it was a good one. 
	5)  Robots are easy to draw?  I mean most are tin cans and cylinders
and so forth.  I find Ironman a lot easier to draw than Psylocke...  (ok 
Ironman is not a robot, but with all that has happened lately who knows.)
	6)  Robots cause telepaths no end of trouble!  Have you ever noticed
that in a consistent comic, robots are the only things that take telepaths out.
(Which is for the most part, how it should be, since not many people have 
psionic shielding and this and that.)  This part of course could open an
entirely different discussion on telepaths and the trouble they pose to writing
comics, but robots  help alleviate that problem.  
	7)  Robots are somewhat believable in having superhuman abilities.
(if that means anything to the comic industry)  I mean its not too unbelievable
that robots will have all types of gadgets handy for use, etc.
	8)  Robots are reconstructable!  They are recyclable!  They can be
great for the environment and all!  And they come back again and again, which
is a primary quality in any villain for comics!
	Well there you have it, and that is about all I can think of offhand
Add some if you like.  I find the fact that some robots dont fit this mold
equally disturbing!  (Lt. Commander Data, and I guess Machine Man?)  But I'll
save the endearing qualities about robots for another posting!
					wReam...
P.S.  For all you know I could be a Robot! [:-|]  Heh heh heh




Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: ac985@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Joel Tscherne)
Subject: PEOPLE: Joe Shuster Dies
Reply-To: ac985@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Joel Tscherne)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 15:50:52 GMT


I'm surprised not to see this here.

According to Bill Warren of GEnie, who supposed got the word from
Harlan Ellison, Joe Shuster, co-creator of Superman, passed away this
week.

-- 
===============Joel Tscherne:  ac985@cleveland.freenet.edu===============
From: joak@ocf.berkeley.edu (Jonathan A. Kung)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Incredible Hulk #397
Date: 25 Jul 1992 20:12:57 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigbang.berkeley.edu
Summary: confusion over page 18
Keywords: hulk marvel

Hi, just wanted to express some confusion about page 18's panel 1,
where the little yellow box says, "Back at the mount...".  Is this
some kind of acknowledgement of the two-page Genesis spread right
before (kinda likely, considering the writer), or else did I miss
something?

-Jonathan Kung, student who's been hand-cranking these signatures
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Demon #27
Date: 25 Jul 92 05:32:42 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

The "Political Asylum" storyline (pun obviously intentional) continues
to be excellent.  The humor is topical and the satire is laid on with
a trowel, but despite this, it never becomes too heavy-handed, as
topical satire too often does. 

"The candidate, an alleged demon from hell, is running as a Republican.
 Etrigan cites both disappointment with current policies and 'a desire
 for immense personal power' as his motivations."

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

  The surface of the strange, forbidden planet was roughly textured and green,
  much like cottage cheese gets way after the date on the lid says it is all 
  right to buy it.--Scott Jones
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams)
Subject: Re: LSH #33
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: 26 Jul 92 23:49:05 GMT


Easily the stupidest issue ever written.  Kid Quantum serves no real
purpose in LSH history (except that he's the Soul of Antres--another
totally pointless retcon).

I'm seriously reconsidering whether I should collect this series. . . . 
--
 ________________ Alan Williams  vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu ___________________
 \/ A hypothetical paradox: What would happen in a battle between an         \/
    _Enterprise_ security team, who always get killed soon after appearing,
    and a squad of Imperial Stormtroopers, who can't hit the broad side of
    a planet?                 	--Tom Galloway
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: tyg@dip.eecs.umich.edu (Tom Galloway)
Subject: Re: Character Aging (was Re: Marvel Continuity)
Organization: Interleaf
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:11:30 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.074909.10150@midway.uchicago.edu> mss2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>My impression is that the Titans are post-college age.  I don't follow

Except there was just a line in the book that none of them are over 21, which
I think is pushing it, but 23 would be reasonable; just post-college. The Wally
West Flash book opened with him celebrating his 21st birthday, but has also
claimed recently that its been only three years since Iris Allen "died", making
it at most 2 years since Crisis. Troia was acknowledged to have married young.

>average age of a JSAer in 1940 was 30, and we presume the Infinitors

25 is probably closer, with Atom being still in college. '40 was when they
were all just getting started, and most were shown to just be starting in the
working world. The exception would be Dr. Mid-Nite, unless he's been retconned
to be Doogie Howser as he already was a practicing physician.

>	Not _one_ JSAer (or old JSA foe in the case of Brainwave or
>Nuklon) had a child during the famous Baby Boom?  All of these kids

Um, Nuklon is the exception. Cyclotron had his child in 1942, shortly before
he died. Nuklon is the son of that child, and it was established his father
died in Vietnam.

Side note: a while back Derryl DePriest and I came up with a retcon that 
would have had Infinity be the only superheroes active during the 1960s/70s,
currently a period which is empty of superheroes in the DC chronology. And
they'd now be midway between the JSA and JLA in age.

"Notice all the computations, theoretical scribblings, and lab equipment, Norm.
... Yes, curiosity killed these cats." --The Far Side
tyg   tyg@hq.ileaf.com
Organization: Robotics Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA