HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore)
Subject: Re: The Big Lie (PC)
Reply-To: john@anasazi.com
Organization: Anasazi Inc, Phoenix AZ USA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:31:14 GMT

Keywords: 

In article <1992Sep8.210403.15477@husc3.harvard.edu> silvers3@husc8.harvard.edu (Jolyon Silversmith) writes:
]However... The ACLU is now involved in an internal conflict over whether to
]continue to defend the nebulous area of "hate speech," whatever that is.
]Many of the members of the national board do not think so. I think that
]reducing this commitment would undercut thye fundamental premise of the ACLU,

The ACLU has already abandoned that fundamental premise with it's failure
to protect the right to self defense.

Also, what does the ACLU say about civil forfeiture as practiced by:
   IRS
   BATF
   DEA

(I really don't know their positiion on civil forfeiture. I would like
to find out, as civil forfeiture is today as much a threat to our
freedoms as anything else the government does)
-- 
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253  (602-951-9326)
john@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
 - - Support ALL ...erk  glugh   mmpph.... Memory fault (core dumped)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: loel@bluemoon.rn.com (Loel Larzelere)
Subject: Re: Ohio Ethnic Intimidation Law
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 00:17:27 EDT

loel@bluemoon.rn.com (Loel Larzelere) writes:

> A flagranunconstitutional law, but no one noticed.

That was supposed to be "flagrantly unconstitutional law"

Aren't noisy phone lines fun?


Loel H. Larzelere -- loel@bluemoon.rn.com

The right to keep and bear arms is the bumper to bumper 
warranty on the rest of the constitution.
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Thursday, 10 Sep 1992 10:08:25 EDT
From: The Computer.... <MABBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: ancient lock


Quick question:  Does that mean that the lock can't be picked or
is the lock safer than some of the present day locks??  Is the best tool
available for picking that lock a handfull of termites??  (quick joke)

*======================================================================*
* Mabbc@Cunyvm.Bitnet      <== Bitnet                                  *
* Mabbc@Cunyvm.Cuny.Edu    <== Internet                                *
*======================================================================*
From: wb8foz@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (David Lesher)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Protecting Door Frames
Date: 12 Sep 1992 14:27:50 GMT
Organization: NRK Clinic for habitual NetNews abusers - Beltway Annex
Reply-To: wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (David Lesher)
NNTP-Posting-Host: skybridge.scl.cwru.edu

Others said
# As I understand it, one way to open a door is to "open" the door frame
# a bit with a car jack or other device.  Apart from sensors, strong
# frames (with bracing), and long lock bolts, what measures are used
# to thwart this entry method?


8" thick walls, of solid concrete with rebar every few
inches.....

--
A host is a host from coast to coast..wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: grnwood@gagme.chi.il.us (Jerry Greenwood)
Subject: Re: Protecting Door Frames
Originator: grnwood@gagme
Organization: Gagme Public Access UNIX, Chicago, Illinois.
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 15:03:14 GMT

.....and then there's the commercial metal door frame that usually easy to
push out because the frame is hollow metal.  We use to fill'm with
concrete!

-- 

Submitted for your approval.....
Jerry Greenwood                                                      N9NRG
grnwood@gagme.chi.il.us                                       312-545-2219

--
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: luckey@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Jon Luckey)
Subject: Re: ABUS Granite
Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches!
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 22:25:18 GMT

dude@losers.hacktic.nl writes:
B
> This lock's my favourite ! I've bought two of 'em and am still very 
> statisfied. They are strong, virtually unpickable, and they don't rust because
> of the plastic outsides. The only way someone would be able to open these, is
> either with a key or with TNT (Or maybe an industrial drill).

Reminds me of the story I heard about the time when the first 'kryptonite'
locks came out, with their guarentee to replace a bike if it was stolen
thru defeating the lock.

Story was about people using liquid nitrogen to freeze the locks, then
breaking it with a hammer.

Has anyone heard of such a thing happening, or should this be crossposted
to alt.folklore.urban-legends?
From: ahay@jarthur.claremont.edu (God)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Mushroom pins
Date: 15 Sep 92 07:38:15 GMT
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711

In article <1992Sep14.015939.11263@cubetech.com> andrew@cubetech.com (Andrew Loewenstern) writes:
>In article <79466@ut-emx.uucp> ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) writes:
>>How does one pick a lock with mushroom or pins?
>
>One techniqe is to push the mushroom pins up to the top and then
>"scrub" them down.

Huh?

< My true intelligence shines through! ;-) >

Exactly what does "'scrub' them down" mean?

Also, you say, "push the mushroom pins up."  This implies that only some of
the pins are mushroom pins.  Is this correct?


If anyone has a full description of picking locks with mushroom pins, it
would be great if they could post it.  This thread has been around a while,
so there must be some interest.

-Alex
ahay@jarthur.claremont.edu
___________________________________________________________________________
I'm unhappy that I can pick my front door lock in 10 seconds, but can't
beat the masterlock on my old $5.00 bike chain.     :(
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: andrew@cubetech.com (Andrew Loewenstern)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: sidebars
Keywords: sidebar lock
Date: 3 Sep 92 09:22:17 GMT
Organization: Cube Technologies, Inc.

In article <star.715206733@husc9> star@husc9.harvard.edu (Joshua Star) writes:
>I don't understand exactly how a sidebar works.  The way I understand it,
>tension on a plug of a lock with a sidebar doesn't put tension at the
>shear line ... therefore not producing a ledge to hold the picked pins on.
>But the sidebar must somehow know when the key is inserted, and the pins
>are effectively picked... how does it do this if no tension is at the shear
>line.  In other words, the way I see it, something must put tension at the
>shear line when the plug is (tried to be) turned.  So how does a sidebar work?

A side-bar is more like a comb.  It's a bar with little 'fingers' that
stick out.  The fingers each fit into a small hole in the side of each
pin.  The sidebar blocks the plug, so the bar has to retract into the
holes on each pin before the lock will open.  Since the bar is just
that, a bar, it won't retract until _all_ of the holes in the pins are
at the right level.  This is what makes it harder to pick.  But since
the pins aren't all the exact same diameter, it's not impossible.

On Medeco biaxial locks, each pin has to be *rotated* as well as
lifted to the correct height before the lock will open.


I'm pretty sure this is how they work, but hey, it's 4:20 am.  If I'm
wrong then Larry will be swift to correct me... ;-)


andrew
-- 
andrew@cubetech.com     | "We shall not cease from exploration
Andrew Loewenstern      |  And the end of our exploring
Cube Technologies, Inc. |  Will be to arrive where we started
                        |  And know the place for the first time." -T.S. Eliot
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: galway@chtm.eece.unm.edu (Denis McKeon)
Subject: Re: ABUS Granite
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 18:13:19 GMT
Organization: Connemara - Computing for People
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.0.1 12/13/89)
Status: OR

In article <1992Sep12.222518.11060@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> luckey@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Jon Luckey) writes:
>
>Reminds me of the story I heard about the time when the first 'kryptonite'
>locks came out, with their guarentee to replace a bike if it was stolen
>thru defeating the lock.
>
>Story was about people using liquid nitrogen to freeze the locks, then
>breaking it with a hammer.
>
>Has anyone heard of such a thing happening, or should this be crossposted
>to alt.folklore.urban-legends?

See the FAQ in rec.bicycles - there are a variety of methods for defeating
U-locks.  Note also that Krypto no longer offers a guarantee in New York City.

--
Denis  McKeon                            Good.   Fast.   Cheap.
galway@chtm.eece.unm.edu                       Pick two.
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: technews@iitmax.iit.edu (Kevin Kadow)
Subject: Re: Libraries - anti-theft systems
Organization: Technology News, IIT, Chicago, IL
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 17:54:19 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.073308.16346@sfu.ca> richard@sfu.ca writes:
)In article <1992Sep2.165007.20015@pt.com> kng@pt.com (Ken Gravenstede) writes:
)> I really have to set the record straight for most of the theft alarms found
)> in libraries, record stores (or CD stores now) etc.  None that I know of are
)> based on a magnetic strip.  However, what most (or maybe all) are based on
)> is a radio transmitter.
)>...
)> If someone has actual firsthand knowledge of a magnetic based system I'd 
)> like to hear about it since I currently know of none.
)
)Sorry, but there really are (at least) two different technologies used for
)library security systems, and one of them uses magnetic strips. I have had
)personal experience with the use of the magnetic strip units. Any library
)that has a degausser at the desk to 'deactivate' the books is using a
)magnetic system... (Some libraries choose not to deactivate the books,
)requiring you to pass them around the barrier, but this can be true for
)either the magnetic or RF schemes.)
)
)- Richard Chycoski 

I'm not sure what the mechanism used by the small strips (about 1/8x6) in
library books is, but they obviously can be deactivated /reactivated by
use of a magnetic field. I sincerely doubt that the MAGNETISM the full extent
of the mechanism used to trigger the alarm.

	There _IS_ a system that uses a small rectangular plastic device about
1/8 high, (it usually  has the barcode/price printed on it). Inside this box
are two mounted steel? strips at each end, with a second, larger strip which
runs most of the length of the little case and can move somewhat.




     _____________________________
    /___________________________  |             ____________________
    |   \            \          | |            /                   /
    |     \            \        | |          /                   /
    |       \            \      | |        /                   /
    |_________\____________\____|/       /___________________/

        Box with two mounted strips           loose strip

Each strip is razor sharp/thin, flexible, and it appears that when the
strips are magnetized (or demagnatized) the metal strips pull together or
are forced apart, changing the resonant frequency of the security device

-- 
Polit Speak #77          Moral Fiber

What Jesse Helms has for breakfast-
 
The breakfast of champions (of censorship, intolerance, and fundamentalism)

technews@iitmax.iit.edu                           kadokev@harpo.iit.edu
                         My Employer Disagrees.
From: profesor@wpi.WPI.EDU (Matthew E Cross)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Card Key Locks
Date: 15 Sep 1992 12:15:31 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu

In article <1992Sep15.050651.28606@cco.caltech.edu> pvmason@cco.caltech.edu (Peter V. Mason) writes:
>In article <1992Sep14.234131.29040@fid.morgan.com> sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep12.233828.21112@cco.caltech.edu>
>>pvmason@cco.caltech.edu (Peter V. Mason) writes:
>>>[explanations of ordered-card cardkey locks deleted]

In a small hotel I worked in (OK, I was only a bus boy), they
installed a set of the cards-with-holes keys type of locks.  And they
told me that there were small radio transmitters for each section of
the hotel which would transmit the new key code to the doors whenever
they were re-programmed.  If you wanted a key to a room, they had to
make up a whole new set (IE making keys for a room implicitly changed
the key required).  They had something that looked like a laptop PC
running the thing.  (This is what they told me, there's always the
chance they made it up to confuse me, but I don't think so...)

	-matt
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| You really need a new reality filter.  |      profesor@wpi.wpi.edu          |
|                  -megazone@wpi.wpi.edu +------------------------------------+
|                                        |    Make love, not War...           |
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Schlage Electronic keys
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:02:27 GMT

crussell@samson.hac.com (Chris Russell) writes:
: I just got one of those credit-card style keys for the electronic doors
: at work.  You don't have to insert the card into a slot or slide it
: through a reader --- the key is recognized by simply placing it FLAT against
: a detection plate.  (The plate can even be in the other side of a window.)
: 
: The system is made by Schlage Electronics.  Does anyone know how it works?

Yes, it uses a series of resonate circuits. These circuits allow the
computer to determine the exact card that is being used and whether
the bearer of that card is allowed access to the controlled area.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: Paul.Elkins@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Paul Elkins)
Subject: Re: Opening a Deadbolt (Request for Advice)
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:54:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep09.231642.34617@watson.ibm.com> margoli@watson.ibm.com writes:
>In  <1992Sep9.221509.17883@leland.Stanford.EDU>  charles@leland.Stanford.EDU (Charles Benjamin Roosen) writes:
>>
>> I have lost the key to a deadbolt lock (I think it's a Kwikset).  If it doesn't


[Bunch of advice deleted...]

>
>You want cheap?  If it's a Kwickset, try using a slap-hammer to yank out the
>cylinder.  The inner face is held in with two spring clips.  (This assumes
>the lock is not in a cheap hollow door.  If it is, this might not be a
>cheap solution.  :-)

What is a "slap-hammer"?  how does it work?  
Is this tool home-made or store-bought?


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: mkohlhaa@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (mike)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: alt.locksmithing archive
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:59:41 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

Does there exist an archive for this group which has a compilation of past
postings?  I remember seeing one a few months back, but I have either 
forgotten the ftp address or it no longer exists.

Any help?

-- 

					-- Mike
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Master keys - how do they work?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 11:04:25 GMT

86b0062@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au (Sam Lander) writes:
: I am completely new to locks, excuse me if this is too much of a FAQ, but 
:     could someone please explain how "master" keys work?
: 
: When I picture a barrel lock I think of a series of pins split along their
: lengths that have to be pushed up just the right amount so that the breaks
: in their bodies all line up with the edge of a cylinder that then can turn
: with the key. (? close enough ?)
: 
: Well then, what does a master key do? In particular, in this building each
: floor has its own master key, they is not one single one. All the doors
: have exactly the same make of lock it seems, a "lockwood schlage" deadlock.

In the simplest system - there are one or more pins positions that are used
for the master combination - as well as the change keys. What this means is
that these positions will have an extra wafer, so that the master key will
work the lock.

Now, there is a tradeoff. The more positions used for master keying, the
more vulnerable the lock is to being picked. However, you gain more useable
change key combinations. 

If, for example, two positions are master keyed, then all the others have
to be the same - for all locks. Obviously, this limits the number of change
keys you can have. If all positions are part of the master keying, then you
have the maximum possible number of change keys available.

: When I buy a very similar looking lock for my front door, how can I be sure
: that the would-be thief would actually have to pick the lock rather than just
: turn it with a master key (presumably from a small set of such keys)? I 
: realise from the discussion here that relying on the lock being difficult too
: pick in the first place might be a mistake, but the question still stands. 
: (Presumably picking the lock is at least a difficult, slow and/or suspicion-
: arousing task)

You do not need to worry about it. Normal locks are not master-keyed - unless
you order them that way. Even if they were, there are thousands of possible
master key combinations.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Protecting Door Frames
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1992 18:37:02 GMT
Reply-To: margoli@watson.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In  <1992Sep8.165142.4948@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>  andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman) writes:
> As I understand it, one way to open a door is to "open" the door frame
> a bit with a car jack or other device.  Apart from sensors, strong
> frames (with bracing), and long lock bolts, what measures are used
> to thwart this entry method?

The most common method is using a jimmy-proof lock - one that interlocks the
door and frame so that they can't be pried apart.

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Protecting Door Frames
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1992 21:18:25 GMT
Reply-To: margoli@watson.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In  <bobk.715981831@slinky.NSD.3Com.COM>  bobk@ESD.3Com.COM (Bob Konigsberg) writes:
> Other methods of protecting the door frame include long screws from the
> strikeplate into the jam, and shear pins in the hinge side.  Also
> shear panels built into the walls will give the doorframe more rigidity.
>
> At one place I worked, none of this did any good.  The break-in in question
> actually ripped the entire door and frame out of the wall.

I also know of apartment buildings where the thieves were able to break
into one apartment, then they broke through the walls between apartments
instead of trying to go through the doors, so they could wipe out an
entire side of a hallway.

Note that the "jimmy" in "jimmy-proof" refers to the nickname for a
small crowbar.  You can get a couple of pieces of metal, one of which
bolts to the face of the door and the other to the door frame, so that
when the door is closed they interlock.  This not only prevents shimming
the lock, but leaves no place to insert a jimmy.  (I don't think they're
strong enough to protect against a decent car jack, though.)

There are multi-point locks; I have one that throws 3 bolts into the
locking side, and one each into the hinge side, top, and bottom of the
door frame.  Using a jack on either side wouldn't do anything about the
bolts sticking out the top and bottom of the door.  There's also the Fox
Police Lock, which uses a bar that braces into the floor a couple of feet
behind the door, so it doesn't rely on the door frame at all.

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Monday, 14 Sep 1992 16:50:41 EDT
From: John Goggan <34II5MT@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Beginner picks... ?

The FAQ suggests a company called Phoenix Systems, Inc. as a source for
picks and other items.  I'm looking for a very basic set that is not too
expensive just to see how interested I am in locksmithing.  I don't want to
go out and spend $75.00 if I have no skill or interest in it.  One of the
items suggested is #607, the "Warded Padlock Pick Set" -- will that be
something I should invest in?  It is $9.95 -- is it ONLY for padlocks, and
ONLY warded ones (what is a warded padlock, the FAQ doesn't really explain
what 'warded' is...)?  Or should I go with #606, The "Tyro Pick Set" which
goes for $34.95.  I was looking for something in between actually -- in the
$20-30 range.  If anyone has any suggestions, please feel free to let me
know!  Any/all ideas are appreciated!  (Also, doesn't a company named
Galls have a $25 beginner set?  Is it worth it/a good idea?  Thanks!

 - John Goggan  (34ii5mt@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu OR jgoggan@opus.csv.cmich.edu)
From: walker@hpl-opus.hpl.hp.com (Rick Walker)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 07:22:37 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Card Key Locks
Organization: HP Labs, High Speed Electronics Dept., Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing

> I don't know a whole lot about locks but I recently went to Disney World with
> a friend and the room keys we were given were simply these plastic cards
> with some holes punched in them.  Would it be all that hard to pick one 
> of these kind of locks?  Just curious (no I don't plan to break in to 
> hotel rooms). 
>                       

I took one of these locks apart (partially) in the last hotel I visited.
The mechanism is not as simple as you think.  There is a snap-off panel
on the inside of the door.  Inside this panel is a second key slot.  In
this slot is a key which is the exact complement of the door key.  In
other words, everywhere a hole exists in the door key, a hole is absent
in the program key, and vice versa.

When the outside key is inserted, the two keys are sandwiched together.
There are pins in every location of the grid on both the top and bottom
of the key "sandwich".  There are clearly four possibilities for the
pin locations:
 
   (top pin)
       |
-----| V |-----  hole in top "program" key 
---------------
---------------  no hole in bottom "door" key
       ^
       |
   (bot. pin)


       |
-----| | |-----  hole in top "program" key 
-----  X  -----
-----| | |-----  hole in bottom "door" key
       |
	   
	   
       V
---------------  no hole in top "program" key 
---------------
---------------  no hole in bottom "door" key
       ^


       V
---------------  no hole in top "program" key 
---------------
-----| ^ |-----  hole in bottom "door" key
       |

Somehow the pins are mechanically arranged so that the door will only
open iff *every* single point in the key matrix is either in the first or
the last configuration.  If a single location is in either of the other
configurations, the door will not open.

This means that an array of 5x7 holes has 2^35 possible number of keys.

The advantage of the system is that the hotel can easily rekey each room
after *every* guest.  If they keep a large enough supply of key pairs,
then it could be months or years before they rotate through any given
code for the second time.

--
Rick Walker
From: bobk@ESD.3Com.COM (Bob Konigsberg)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Protecting Door Frames
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:50:31 GMT

Other methods of protecting the door frame include long screws from the
strikeplate into the jam, and shear pins in the hinge side.  Also
shear panels built into the walls will give the doorframe more rigidity.

At one place I worked, none of this did any good.  The break-in in question
actually ripped the entire door and frame out of the wall.

BobK