HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sinister@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Multiple currencies
Date: 12 Dec 92 17:29:02 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <wo41H0&+ab@atlantis.psu.edu>, stine@handel.psu.edu (Jeffrey Stine) writes:
> I will admit this is a good example of how trade can/will occur and that
> it adds dimension etc etc
> One thing I have to question though is what is the purpose of the above
> mentioned stone? _Why_ should that person want it? Something has to get
> the ball rolling. And while it doesn't have to be everything, you still
> need to code some sort of starting base, some way of kickstarting the
> system now and then....

	A good, pre-planned world background will accomplish this.....  One 
thing that lacks in the MUDs I play on is a "Rumor-Mill".  As our intrepid
adventurer is poking through the random book in a library, he finds a hint
a the Great Gee-Whiz Assault Wand.  "Hmmm," thinks our player, "I wonder if
any one has even seen this thing?"  
	He then wil start talking to others about it.  Maybe someone ELSE has 
found a map shred in another area depicting something interesting?  "I'll
trade you a suit of rubber-armor for a look at your map?"
	Of course, maybe the Wand doesn't exist.  Either way, the "Rumor-Mill"
has just gotten things going.  Another area for a call to func RUMOR() might
be as the player relaxes in a busy tavern... he "Overhears" two merchants...

> In a real simulation total barter would be much
> more interesting than an endless supply of things at your local shops.
> And of course any questing involves goals. The way you talked I didn't
> think you desired for the MU* to have any Jamie ;)
> 
> Oh and one other thing about the example before I forget again.
> A person with a RL knack for obtaining a certain object probably
> has a pretty good playing ability and could easily get the stone
> on his own. Though I would allow for exceptions - lack of knowledge
> for one (barter for info). The possibilty to code in the occurance
> of more exceptions in order to keep a barter system viable is relevant.
> 
> -jeff

	Michel... 
		AKA:  Rorr or Cyberjack
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: srmaygar@eos.ncsu.edu (STEVEN RICHARD MAYGAR)
Subject: Getting to ftp sites
Originator: srmaygar@c00517-118rd.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: srmaygar@eos.ncsu.edu (STEVEN RICHARD MAYGAR)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 13:46:07 GMT


I am not all that familiar with building on muds, as a matter of fact I know 
nothing. I also hate to admit my ignorance in using ftp. Once I uptain the 
actual site, such as, ucbvax.berkeley.edu(128.32.133.1):/pub/games/dikumud/utility,
how do I go about getting to the files I want in there, which would be the 
directions on how to build on these muds. I tried telnetting to the site but 
when I got there it asked me for a login and password, so I could not get in
I suppose. Any help on how to get to these files would be greatly appreciated.
Please send any response to-srmaygar@eos.ncsu.edu.   Thanks

						Steve
From: waynem@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Wayne McDonald)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Character names and memory
Date: 14 Dec 92 04:38:03 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON

In <JAMIE.92Dec14165935@kauri.vuw.ac.nz> jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jamieson Norrish) writes:

>Would someone please suggest a feasibly way of restricting character
>knowledge, particularly in regards to the names of other characters?
>As most MU*s stand (although I've heard of exceptions), every
>character knows every other character's name on sight (or even worse,
>straight from the who list). This is easy, and ludicrous. Better is
>having a function for each character which specifies names they know -
>when a character meets another, they can swap something which alerts
>the the code that that character's name is known. This is kludgy and
>artificial.
   As I understand it, most of the games are for roleplaying and killing
monsters(quests,...), but they are also social games and the your suggestions
would seem to limit that.

>What is better and still feasible? Have a player give out his dbref
>with a name, so that various names could be given to different people,
>all of whom will recognize her by their own particular name? Or allow
>players to assign any name they like to the dbref - they are likely to
>choose the name that they first hear being used, but not necessarily.
>I quite like this idea, the more I think about it - every character
>would write a short description which would be used for those players
>who haven't assigned a name to that character's dbref.

>The first problem I see is that it would slow everything down by a
>considerable amount, since every character (object, even?) has its own
>name for every other character. However, there would be some
>uniformity for most characters - if someone is only ever called Jack,
>and refers to himself as Jack, most people aren't likely to label him
>Peter. :-)

>Any comments/criticisms/suggestions?

>Jamie

Takir
waynem@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
Xref: sparky rec.games.mud.admin:1002 rec.games.mud.lp:4606
From: jfk@pender.ee.upenn.edu (James F.  Kennedy)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Looking for a machine site for an LPmud
Keywords: new machine lpmud mystic
Date: 16 Dec 92 05:35:55 GMT
Reply-To: jfk@pender.ee.upenn.edu (James F.  Kennedy)
Followup-To: rec.games.mud.admin
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Hello all,

  We the gods of mystic are currently looking for a new machine on which
to run mystic.  Following are some of our criteria:

  1) Authorization from proper machine authorities (please, if you have no
     say in the run of the machine, don't contact us:)
  2) reasonable disk space (negotioable)
  3) limited account access (again, negotioable)
  4) a machine of decent speed (sparc 1+ or better....)

Most items are negotioable, but of course, we are looking for a fast machine
which we can have reasonable access to.  Please contact me if you have such
machine via jfk@ee.upenn.edu.

Possible compensation (in every form but money:) may also exist.

Thank you for your time and I hope to hear from YOU soon,

Satan
Administrative God of Mystic
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: brumleve@gauss (Dan Brumleve)
Subject: Re: Memory-Usage Question
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 03:39:48 GMT

pmgt1841@altair.selu.edu writes:

>I run a DikuMUD.  One thing I noticed is than when I boot it on a
>Sun, it runs at a consistant 8 megs of mem;  But when I boot it on a
>Sparc, it starts at around 13 megs, and while the MUD is up fer a while,
>it steadily decreases to around 3 megs.  

>Any idea why?

>Thanks,

>Lorin


     Memory fluctuations are usually due to disk swapping, unless you have
some odd bugs.

-Dan
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.mud.tiny,rec.games.mud.misc
From: jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (JKF)
Subject: Re: how many players?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Keywords: stats, MU*s, trivial info
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 04:49:01 GMT

In article <chupchup.724292066@oinker> chupchup@ferkel.ucsb.edu (Robert Earl) writes:
>jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (JKF) writes:
>
>| In article <1992Dec11.184635.19552@seas.gwu.edu> salomon@seas.gwu.edu (A. Lee Salomon) writes:
>| >
>| >what's the highest number of players you've seen logged onto a MU* at any one
>| >time?  i understand the number can reach as high as about 100, but i've never
>| >seen this (am lpmud player so i don't know if this has anything to do with it).
>| >just curious.  thanks
>
>| I see 100+ players on FurryMUCK all the time.  MasqueMUCK got up to 65 and
>| then we hit a player limit since we hadn't installed a concentrator.  
>
>65 is a funny number to hit the limit.  What's the descriptor limit
>on your machine?  70?  It's usually 64, and any sort of MUD will save
>1-4 descriptors for its own use, such as a listen socket, file I/O, etc.

I don't know.  I do know that each time we'd get up to 64 or 65 players
on, someone would disconnect, another person would come on, and say "jeez,
I couldn't get on here."  We never got above 65.  I don't think we'd
*want* to get above 65 unless we do away with formal closing ceremonies
altogether, given that 65+ people can generate Much Spam.  Like that
chupchup there on the left, for example.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jamieson Norrish)
Subject: Re: Character names and memory
Organization: /u/student/jamie/.organization
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 08:12:12 GMT
	<1992Dec19.221323.18708@husc3.harvard.edu>

In article <1992Dec19.221323.18708@husc3.harvard.edu>
tan1@husc10.harvard.edu (Joseph Tan) writes:

   Either I missed something or, amazingly, everyone forgot to credit
   Genesis in this discussion about names and memory.  They've required
   'introduce' for quite a while now and their 'who' lists only those
   people you remember in addition to the number of people logged on.

How exactly does this introduce work? What does it do? How is memory
handled for the who lists? Does introducing yourself force you to give
your real name?

Jamie
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: wcollins@netcom.com (Walter J. Collins)
Subject: Re: Multiple currencies
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 13:53:19 GMT

In article <JAMIE.92Dec11192838@kauri.vuw.ac.nz> jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jamieson Norrish) writes:
>
>Thank you for reminding me why I don't play MUDs. :-) With no resets,
>and no automatic abandoning of equipment and going back to the start,
>this problem is eliminated.
>
>Jamie

Then you have another problem... how do you keep players spending their
money?  Most all mud economies inflate to the point of silliness quickly,
becoming a dictatorial you-can-only-set-the-item-value-so-high kludge.
(N.B. - what we do is charge coins for *everything*, player levels, 
guild levels, attribute advancement, resurrection, etc.. and we (strongly :)
encourage through role-playing donations to various causes in exchange for
certain benefits..)

Any thoughts on a zero-sum economic system that is easy to conceptualize
and install?  Sorry, but I won't install something I don't understand.

Walt (Cynic@UD)

-- 
wcollins@netcom.netcom.com  < Walt Collins / Kristin Harvey >
1011 New Hope St., #12-C  |  Norristown, PA  19401  |  (215)277-2567
From: bakerje@cnsvax.uwec.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: RE: CHARACTER NAMES AND MEMORY...
Date: 14 Dec 92 15:15:59 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

In response to you question about PLAYER NAMES.

	Yes... there is a way to solve your problem.  If you have ever
checked out CyberWorld MUD, you would find that upon looking at people,
you do not see there name, but you see something like HUMAN1, ELF3, etc...
You can only get their name if they INTRODUCE themselves... then you see
GEORGE, BOB, FRED, ect...
	As for the WHO or @who list, on CyberWorld MUD, you only get a 
list of people YOU know (ie have been in contact with during that playing
session) and Administration.
	You didn't specify what kind of MU** you were talking about. If 
you were talking about a MUD, you should contact a Wiz from CyberWorld and
I am sure they would give you the code (or at least tell you how to do it).
If you were talking MUSE/MUSH... I think WHO lists are pretty easy to edit,
but I am not sure how you would go about hiding people's NAMEs.
	
	Also... in response to the first reply about MU**s being social as
well as roleplaying... I think that MU**s specify what nature they are quite
obviously.  If you are using a MUD, it is probably for RP. If you are using
a MUSE/MUSH... then it may be RP or just social, but there is usually a 
description of the MUSE's theme right at the beginning.

							-James

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jamieson Norrish)
Subject: Re: Character names and memory
Organization: /u/student/jamie/.organization
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 05:05:34 GMT

In article <1gl0r8INNemo@coral.bucknell.edu> lesher@coral.bucknell.edu
(T. Lesher) writes:

   This is quite simple in MUSHcode.  Just define an attribute on
   yourself (say, CLOTHES).

   &clothes me=a tatty old cloak that would barely serve to keep out the
   wind

   Then in your @desc, do this:
   @desc me=<blah blah blah> He wears [v(clothes)].

   This will expand out to "He wears a tatty..." etc.

This is not what I meant; I meant that objects would be given a little
description which would become a part of a character's desc when she
wore that item. In fact, this could be extended to cover all objects,
so that descriptions are almost entirely built up with object
descriptions. This, combined with my idea for names mentioned in an
earlier post, could make for some very effective disguises. But of
course, some things like eye colour/hair colour (under most
circumstances) would not change, but still be a generated part of the
desc.

In order to stop deception being rampant, though, I would require the
player to write a small part of the description, giving more
subjective (but unchangeable) details, such as a slightly hooked nose,
a thin face or whatever. Although those too could simply be made into
properties, and then generated for the desc.

The advantage of generated descs is of course that you could have it
use one of a numer of set phrases for each property, and put them into
a semi-random order. It should also be possible for the player to
write her own phrases, into which set properties would be inserted.
This would ensure that descs could be well-written, but containing set
information, with the most part of it being generated from what is
being carried by the player.

This also ensures that descs be physical in nature. I don't want to be
told that someone gives me the creeps, or that they inspire awe. I
want that to come out from the way they behave, from the what they
say, not because their desc says so. I do not want my reactions
dictated to me, and nor would I wish to make my desc reveal what are
non-physical details.

Even some non-physical details could do well to be omitted (BTW, this
is, of course, all IMHO). In my view, the desc is what you see when
you look, for a brief moment, at someone. Moving, talking and acting
do not fall under this, but rather are the province of emote and say.
A lot of work, maybe, to create a continual "personal atmosphere", but
far less work, I would think, than continuous slaughter. :-)

Jamie
From: jacob@fy.chalmers.se (Jacob Hallen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Multiple currencies
Date: 12 Dec 92 04:35:26 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology

In article <Bz3D3L.B4@brunel.ac.uk> cs90djs2@brunel.ac.uk (Duncan J Stansfield) writes:
>gold,silver and copper coins, all weigh the same, each worth ten times
>the next. coins have the same weight. all equipment costs are in copper
>coins for ease of calculation. jewelry is simply a small, expensive object
>there are banks, but they take 10% of EVERY transaction. all objects
>have a selling type(weapon,armour,treasure,etc) and can only be sold in
>shops that accept that type (weaponsmith,armourer,jeweler). all shops
>take a cut from 10-30% depending on charisma,shopkeeper-player race,
>etc but give the best change, and remove the smallest they can. so
>you can get money changed by putting it in the bank, and taking it out
>again, but it costs, or you could buy jewelry, but it costs.
>
>with multiple objects (an object with a number, ie "10 copper coins",
>"15 arrows") you can limit the number of varieties of objects a player
>can carry at any one level, plus the size/weight/volume of objects
>carryable.
>ie.

A system quite a lot like this is in use on Genesis. It has been working for
the better part of a year. However, coins and such stuff are not integral
parts of the player as Mr Stansfield proposes, but belong to a special type
of object called heap_object. This is autoloading in the player, and
also has the property of joining with other heap_objects of the same type,
when it enters an environment.

Jacob Hallen
From: sinister@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Multiple currencies
Date: 13 Dec 92 13:48:32 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Dec13.061659.13583@leland.Stanford.EDU>, whale@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen Schmidt) writes:
	[Stuff Deleted]
> To get something like this, you have to have player-run shops and banks
> and pubs, and some way for players to produce items for a cost.
	[Stuff Deleted]
>   FWIW, I don't really believe in doing zero-sum economies because most
> players want to be adventurers and not fill the more mundane, but much
> more common and necessary, economic roles of shopkeepers and smiths and
> what-not. I'm interested in doing positive-sum economies (ie, the total
> wealth of players rises over time) in which prices of goods and the value
> of money responds "realistically" to aggregate player behavior....
> 
> Mobydick@TMI-2
> -- 
> Steve Schmidt			<><		   whale@leland.stanford.edu

	On a local BBS here in Halifax, a chap is running a SUD.  He has 
a system which is directly in the middle ot these two.  Scattered throughout
the game map are "Ore Seams", which with an application of a mining skill
can be made to yeild iron or silver.  All you have to do is get the stuff
to someone with a blacksmith skill (PC or NPC), and you can have it made into
all sorts of weapons or coin.  A seam will eventually run out.
	However, there are a certain number of towns built on *nearly* 
inexhaustble seams.  There are NPC miners and NPC shippers and NPC smiths
here.  They constantly produce material (coins or equipment) based on player
purchase demand....  Prices fluctuate based on amounts bought over a given time
period.  So, it isn't zero-sum, and it isn't positive-sum.
	He also has "farmland" hexes which seasonally yeild food....  One
player's adventuring costs are defrayed by the fact he stockpiles food and
sells it to N/PC's during the zero-yeild winter phase of the game.  He also
insures *he* has food to eat as well this way.  Farmland can be destroyed
by either over-harvesting or by burning it....  The SUD-Boss has warned
that he won't be doing any Diety-fiat replanting, so if everyone slash-
and-burns themselves out of existance....


______________________________________________________________
|                              |                             |
|  Rowwrr @ Dartmud            |  Aka Michel Vaillancourt    |
|  Cyberjack @ Cyberworld      |			     |
|         		       |    Sinister@ac.dal.ca	     |
|                              |    			     |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|   "..In visiting virtual other worlds, we get a better     |
|	understanding of the real world in which we play.."  |
|                         --Myself	                     |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|   Disclaimer:  None needed;  Dalhousie U doesn't think I   |
|          can do that much damage even unsupervised.        |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: drevreck@colargol.edb.tih.no (Lars Syrstad)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Skills based systems abuse
Date: 12 Dec 92 21:19:28 GMT
Organization: Colargol, Trondheim College of Engineering
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Jamieson Norrish (jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz) wrote:
: In article <1992Dec9.194255.26695@ugle.unit.no>
: drevreck@colargol.edb.tih.no (Lars Syrstad) writes:

:    I might want to get rid of things like spellpoints, hitpoints and
:    other points that are used to measure how much a player might
:    do of any given action. They could be replaced with a general 
:    fatigue score, or perhaps better, two: Physical fatigue and 
:    mental fatigue.

: Physical fatigue sounds okay; I'm not sure about mental though - and
: what does picking locks fall under? I would say neither myself.

So would I... Lock-picking isn't very fatiguing, really. Some mental
fatigue from boredom would apply, I guess. (Modified by the character's
concentration, etc.

:    And when a character tries to climb that mountain, it would
:    perform better the less fatigued it is. The same would apply
:    to combat - one would not lower one's opponent's hitpoints, but
:    make it more physically fatigued. The more fatigued, the greater 
:    the chance of becoming fatally wounded etc etc.

: Hmmmm. Interesting, almost along the lines of the Warhammer Fantasy
: Roleplay mechanic, whereby damgae is deducted from your wounds score,
: but doesn't do anything until they reach zero, and then you start
: taking critical hits. But some things do not readily lend themselves
: to the fatigue system. I imagine someone could ride a horse for long
: periods, or pick locks, or cook food or... 

I've heard plenty of nice things about the Warhammer system. Must check
it out some day.

(Btw: Have you ever ridden a horse? I have. Once. And my body ached for
DAYS afterwards. :-))

By those two fatigue-variants, I try to simulate the Real World. You
are mentally or physically fatigued from time to time. Note that I
imagine boredom as something that would affect mental fatigue. But
I see no point in assigning fatigue to something that is not really
fatiguing. 

: Jamie

Lars S, aka Drevreck
--
Though I try to drown my sorrows, they will surely drown me first
For swallowing my pride won't quench this thirst.
    - Sabbat in 'Wildfire'   ( At least I *think* it was in 'Wildfire'... )
From: lesher@coral.bucknell.edu (T. Lesher)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Character names and memory
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:24:08 GMT
Organization: Bucknell University, Lewisburg, PA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: coral.bucknell.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Jamieson Norrish (jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz) wrote:

: To change tack slightly, has anyone implemented or thought of
: implementing a semi-automatic description creator, whereby certain
: fixed attributes always remain in the description, and whereby clothes
: and other such items appear not in the inventory but in the
: description, with their own set line or two?

: For example, someone picks up a cloak. This automatically adds on a
: line in the character's description saying, maybe, "So-and-so is
: wearing a tatty old cloak that would barely serve to keep out the
: wind." This way, when someone looks at someone, they get a description
: which actually matches what they are carrying, rather than just having
: items listed in an inventory.

This is quite simple in MUSHcode.  Just define an attribute on
yourself (say, CLOTHES).

&clothes me=a tatty old cloak that would barely serve to keep out the
wind

Then in your @desc, do this:
@desc me=<blah blah blah> He wears [v(clothes)].

This will expand out to "He wears a tatty..." etc.

--
		Tim Lesher, aka <lesher@bucknell.edu>
	     "The mantle of leadership is decorated with
	      concentric rings over the heart."-- anon.