HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cruz@lab.ultra.nyu.edu (Nancy Cruz)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Community Residence programs
Date: 11 Sep 92 19:11:55 GMT
Organization: New York University Ultracomputer Research Lab

My sister (29 yrs old.) has had a mental illness since she was 20.
The best living situation for her would be a community residence.  I
have had great difficulty locating 'good' programs.  By 'good' I mean
a program where the family is involved, competent and compassionate staff
and above all a clientele similar to my sister (no prior drug abuse 
or criminal records).  A place where she does not have to be concerned
for her safety and meets people like herself.  I am willing to
consider programs out of NYC (within reason).

I can discuss this further via e-mail if anyone has suggestions or
questions.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Nancy
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Nancy Cruz - a.k.a. "Tensha, the Icewoman" |   New York University    |
|      cruz@lab.ultra.nyu.edu                |Ultracomputer Research lab|
+--------------------------------------------+--------------------------+
From: shannonb@topaz.ucq.edu.au
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Looking for Health / Medical FTP sites
Date: 14 Sep 92 10:10:53 AET
Organization: University of Central Queensland, Australia

I am looking for any FTP sites with health /medical related software. I have
found the site at umich, but was wondering if there are any others.

Please post a reply or email me direct .

Thank you in advance

Bruce Shannon
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Mark D. Kline)
Subject: Re: Thermography
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 20:47:26 EDT

In article <1992Sep2.005751.27782@tvnews.tv.tek.com> adolfo@soul.tv.tek.com (Adolfo Rodriguez) writes:
>Some time ago I read about the use of thermography and thermovision in the
>field of medicine.  Does anyone out there know if thermography or thermovision
>is still used in medicine?

Thermography is one of those things which seems never to have come into
widespread use.  I have heard that thermography has been used fairly often
in personal injury litigation, in which thermographic images have been
presented as "proving" that somebody has pain.  Thermography has been
used in some quarters in the diagnosis of reflex sympathetic dystrophy,
which can be a controversial diagnosis.  

--
================================================================= 
mark kline                              mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu
suny health science center, syracuse    voice: (315) 422-1050
================ courtesy of syracuse university ================
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Doctor's hours
Date: 10 Sep 92 17:59:06 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <+vsng6#.sss@netcom.com> sss@netcom.com (Small Systems Solutions) writes:

>
>My father, a doc, says that the rationale he was given for the long
>hours during residence was so that the residents could follow the course
>of a patient's progress from admittal for some significant period.
>
That is true.  If you just work the night shift and admit the patient,
you are home asleep the next morning when the professor comes around
to tell you what you did right and what you did wrong.  So your
colleagues on the day shift get the teaching on the patient you
admitted.  Unfortunately, they don't have the same investment
in the patient as you do and although they benefit, they don't
benefit as much as you would.  They may tell you at shift change
if you made a bad goof (or you'll get a call from the professor
to chew you out) but it is suboptimal.  You also see fewer patients
per year that way and your competence is a function of the number
of patients you have seen under supervision.  One solutions would
be to hire night shift professors, but where would the money for
that come from?  


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: headaches (was Re: Xanax)
Date: 11 Sep 92 19:33:19 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <PHR.92Sep10022110@soda.berkeley.edu> phr@soda.berkeley.edu (Paul Rubin) writes:
>
>I ever heard of NLP.  I can get rid of most headaches that way, but not all.
>I think just getting into that quiet internal space helps me relax
>and that helps the headache.  Also, someone told me many headaches
>are caused by irregular blood flow in the scalp (I don't know if
>this is true) so perhaps the relaxation is helping that too.
>Neck and scalp massages often have similar effects.

Distension of scalp vessels are part of migraine.  Most people
nowadays think the problem is in the brain and the vascular
effects secondary.  I'll be clear that I do not rule out that
some cognitive procedure in the brain could abort a migraine,
such as the NLP people claim.  So far, I haven't seen any
good evidence that it can be done, however.  Biofeedback has
been tried a lot and it has proved a failure in controlled studies.
I'm waiting to hear about the NLP controlled studies.  The
problem with NLP is the mode does not seem to be science so
much as commercial.  Maybe Lee is an exception, but it seems
to be in the business of selling tricks (the analog of the quack's
secret bug juice) to people rather than doing experiments and
furthering human knowlege.  Far too much like Scientology, a
psychopathic system devised by a classic psychopath, for my taste.
What they have should be put into the open literature and tested
impartially.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: NLP, etc
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:36:10 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <1992Sep9.213641.12891@decuac.dec.com> jcp@islay.dco.dec.com (Jolly C. Pancakes) writes:

>	David has presented a method that he says may make a given
>headache go away. And so it might - headaches can often be ameliorated
>through biofeedback mechanisms, and visualisation of the sort he
>describes can be effective for at least some headache sufferers (as a
>lifelong migraineur, I know whereof I speak). Furthermore, it can't hurt
>anyone if it doesn't work, and it didn't cost any money.
>
Well, in the case of the NLP practitioner I know, he charged the
patients plenty to treat their migraines.  Their insurance didn't
cover it either, I believe.  Some of them said at first they
thought it helped, but it didn't last.  Could have been placebo.




-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Mark D. Kline)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Xanax
Date: 12 Sep 92 19:00:04 GMT
Organization: Syracuse University


Oh yes, one more thing...(in response to Mr. Sternlight's personal
attacks):

If people are helped by NLP, I think that's great. 

Everyday I am amazed at the stuff that people tell me has
helped them; from religious practices (prayer, meditation) to
herbal and nutritional stuff ("I really do feel better when I
take my vitamins") to psychological/communitarian/sociologic
experiences (AA, support groups, psychotherapy, etc).  
I take such accounts from my patients very seriously.  

Taking such accounts seriously does not mean that I necessary
think about those experiences the same way my patients do.
NLP might very well help some people.  But if you're gonna
convince me that it helps people reliably, or that its
underpinnings are solid, you gotta show me some reaserch.
For the present, I would concur with the assessment that NLP
is a "nut case therapy" as Mr. Sternlight put it.  This is
not to say that somebody somewhere might claim to find some
value in it.

A graduate student of William James doing fieldwork asked
an old Maine farmer, "Do you believe in prayer?"  The farmer
paused a moment and said, "Of course i believe in prayer.
I've seen it done!"


--
================================================================= 
mark kline                              mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu
suny health science center, syracuse    voice: (315) 422-1050
================ courtesy of syracuse university ================
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Use of statistical evidence  Was: Re: Xanax
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:07:00 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <Yeh87=K00UzxI1Dp15@andrew.cmu.edu> sean+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sean McLinden) writes:
>>> Either evidence exists for the efficacy of a treatment or it doesn't.
>>> If it doesn't, then those that say the treatment is ineffective are
>>> clinically correct.

I must put on my professional uniform and loudly protest.  This is total
misuse of statistical reasoning.  There is no such thing as clear,
conclusive, statistical evidence.  Unfortunately, too many medical
(and other) people who have had statistics methods courses believe
that the methods came down with whatever religious works they follow.

>>You're forgetting that correctly designed studies may fail to detect
>>real therapeutic effects because they lack statistical power.  Any study
>>which fails to show a difference between treatment and non-treatment
>>groups should comment on the statistical power of the study.
>>Unfortunately, many readers forget to think of this too, and conclude
>>that a treatment is ineffective when in reality there is simply too
>>little evidence to base a decision on.

>Au contraire. I'm not forgetting that at all. You can assert that your
>study fails to detect therapeutic effects because of a lack of statistical
>validity or you can say it was sunspots or "bad karma" but the point is
>that you have demonstrated no effect. Why this was so is a curiosity and,
>perhaps, justification for another study. But it does not, and should not,
>alter any clinical decisions.

>"Too little evidence" as you put it, is no better than no evidence at all.

Whether it should alter scientific reasoning is a much more difficult question,
but it very definitely could, properly used, alter clinical decisions.  We
cannot always wait for the data to trickle in until statistical significance,
which is not a reasonable answer anyhow, is attained.  Even this procedure is
statistically incorrect, assuming that statistical significance is what is
really wanted.


-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: headaches (was Re: Xanax)
Date: 10 Sep 92 06:24:56 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Dana Nau says he's not convinced about the NLP/est Headache cure. Since
I was reporting, not advocating, it's of little interest that he's
not convinced. Aspirin also doesn't work for some, yet that's no reason
to discredit it since, like the above, it works for many.

Putting it another way, claims of efficacy don't require 100% success.

As for my own experience, it works for me, and I've seen it work for
hundreds. If it doesn't work for Nau, he should seek something else.
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: 15 min phobia cures (was Re: Xanax)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 15:57:01 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


There are hundreds and hundreds of cases of NLP phobia cures. I'm
not going to do the research for Joel Levin since this is a
statement, not proof. If he's interested, let him do the research
himself.

I notice that several here try to show how "smart" they are by
putting people in a situation where they are expected to do
massive literature searches and report the results here at their
own expense when they are not trying to prove something but
merely reporting. Let's be clear about something--this place
is a medium of correspondence, not a referreed journal. If
I wrote a letter to someone, he might ask for pointers at best,
and might then choose to believe or disbelieve me, but would
not engage in the kinds of smart-ass flames I've seen here.
(To avoid the need for any bruised egos to respond, I'm
not talking about anyone specific--certainly not Joel--
in the last sentence.)

Even assuming one were interested in reasonable evidence, some
of the standards I've seen here from wise-guy posters saying
"prove it" are more severe than most of the professional
main-stream psychological community applies to itself.

So here's my final summary of this "prove it" discussion.
I've posted my observations and my take on things. They
should be viewed as pointers. One can believe them or
not. They are not advice, recommendations, or proof.
Anyone who feels the need to gratify their own egos
by saying "******I****** don't believe it" is is welcome
to do so, but need not expect a response. Posting a fancy
or nasty version of "I don't believe it." is even more
self-indulgent nonsense as the simpler version would be,
and (whether the writer cares or not) will earn him or
her the silent contumely of many.

As for me, I'm uninterested in whether some of my experiences
are thought to be "unscientific" since I HAVE HAD my Ph.D. for
years and know when I'm in research mode and when I'm not.

Newsgroups: sci.med
From: martink@xenox.w.open.de (Martin Koall)
Subject: dentist is looking for help, please
Organization: Privat Netnews Server
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:08:14 GMT


Hallo everybody,

my name is Martin Koall. I'm a german dentist. Since a few weeks I'm the
proud owner of a modem. I like my job and in the evening, when work is
done, I like working and playing with my computer.
Because I love my job I want to give my best to help my patients. Therefore
I'm looking for contact with other dentists. I'm very interested in
talking with them, telling them how dentistry is done in germany and
hearing how the job is done in other countries.
By preferance I'd like to know how dentistry in the United States of
America is done. I'd also like to have reference to american software
dealers for comercial and shareware programs. Perhaps there is medical
(dental) softwareare availiable? My favorit interest is in grafics 
I'm looking for a way to store video pictures of my patients on pc and
also to store X-ray photographs.
If you can help me please mail to:

			martink@xenox.w.open.de
			martink@xenox.w.open.de
or post to:
			Grosse Weide 16 
			Grosse Weide6
			830 Schwel
			West Germany

Thankyou for your help!

Your
		Martin Koall
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: M20614@mwvm.mitre.org (Hugh Pritchard)
Subject: Re: Bates and myopia treatment
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:49:13 GMT

In article <3978@sicsun.epfl.ch>
basturk@nebin.cica.fr (Erol Basturk) writes:
 
>In 1918, Dr. W. Bates, published a book, "A better Eyesight without
>glasses", which seems to be the beginning of a new way of
>considering optical problems of the eye. Since then, many books and
>articles have been written on the subject, which seems to indicate a
>rich domain of investigation. However, the eye treatement seems to
>be still an alternative science, for reasons which remains obscur.
 
[Not a spelling/usage flame]
That should read "seemed."  Past tense.  It no longer seems so.  Bates
advocated eye exercises to "strengthen" the eye muscles.  It would
seem nice to be able to correct your myopia yourself.  Unfortunately,
corrective glasses or cornea surgery now seems to be the only way to go.
 
The way an eye points is controlled by 6 muscles: 2 up-and-down (rectus:
superior & inferior); 2 side-to-side (rectus: medial & lateral); and
2 slanty (oblique: superior & inferior) -- these oblique muscles are
toward the side of the face.  There are no other muscles directly
attached to the eye.
 
The reason one is myopic is that the focal length of the eye is too
short for the eye.  This could be because the eyeball is too long front-
to-back, or because the cornea is too sharply curved.
 
Although the muscles (in particular, the obliques) have been shown to
be strong enough to be able to slightly flatten the eye, it's not enough
to change the focal length.  The outside of the eye (the sclera) is *tough*.
 
**  Hugh Pritchard,  hapritch@mitre.org,  703/883-6616
From: rind@binoc.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Xanax
Date: 14 Sep 92 13:35:41 GMT
Organization: Beth Israel Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston Mass., USA

In article <Yeh87=K00UzxI1Dp15@andrew.cmu.edu> sean+@andrew.cmu.edu
 (Sean McLinden) writes:
[In response to a comment about Power/Type II errors]
>Au contraire. I'm not forgetting that at all. You can assert that your
>study fails to detect therapeutic effects because of a lack of statistical
>validity or you can say it was sunspots or "bad karma" but the point is
>that you have demonstrated no effect. Why this was so is a curiosity and,
>perhaps, justification for another study. But it does not, and should not,
>alter any clinical decisions.
>"Too little evidence" as you put it, is no better than no evidence at all.

I think this overstates the case a bit.  Presumably before any study 
there is some prior suspicion that the treatment has an effect.  Studies
can then legitimately interpreted as modifying the prior probability of
effect to produce a new probability (by Bayes theorem, for instance).

A study that arrives at a negative result may have done so because of
inadequate power.  If there was strong reason to believe that a therapy
was effective prior to such a study, then the study may only mildly
weaken your appropriate belief in the effect of the therapy.

-- 
David Rind
rind@binoc.bih.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Mark D. Kline)
Subject: Re: Xanax
Organization: Syracuse University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 09:09:57 EDT

In article <53ynlsr.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>
>Mark Kline shows his ability to post snow job messages yet again,
>in which he uses serious language without any understanding. The
>NLP treatment of headaches is not, as he claims, an anchoring
>technique at all, but a submodality technique. Submodalities
>are among the most successful of the NLP techniques.
>

Well excuuuuse me DOCTOR Sternlight.  The bibligraphy sent to me by Lee
Lady had a couple of articles which reported mixed/negative tests of the
"anchoring technique" (whatever that is) in the treatment of headache,
and I assumed this was the "famous headache cure" to which you and
others have made reference.  Terms like "submodality" just don't mean
anything to an unititated ignoramous like myself.  I suspect they don't
mean anything to other NLP nonbelievers either.  In fact, I suspect
they don't mean anything at all outside of NLP.  We might as well
be talking tibetan buddhist philosophy of mind: that would be cool,
wouldn't it?  Unfortunately, while there may be some ideas of real
value in tibetan buddhist psychology, its therapeutic technigues
have not been subject to empirical testing and anyone who promulgated
such techniques on sci.med would get the same treatment you've been getting.

I would remind DOCTOR sternlight that this thread began with HIS
claim about the famous 15 minute headache cure, a claim (along with
others related to NLP) which have yet to be supported by anything 
but hot air on the net.  

My apologies for my scatological language.  Nevertheless, I meant 
everything I said.

--
================================================================= 
mark kline                              mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu
suny health science center, syracuse    voice: (315) 422-1050
================ courtesy of syracuse university ================
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: fedrick@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Kelvin W. Fedrick)
Subject: Re: Xanax
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 03:38:09 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.141719.464@sdf.lonestar.org> marco@sdf.lonestar.org (Steve Giammarco) writes:
>I suffered from Panic Disorder for 11 years. Xanax is one drug that
>effectively suppressed my panic attacks so that I could concentrate
>on group therapy. For you anti-psychotheraputic drug types, you need
>to understand that trying to engage in any meaningful therapy is 
>fairly difficult when your heart if racing, your chest feels crushed,
>and you feel that if youdon't force your next breath to happen it
>might not.
>
>You can quote any book you like. I _lived_ the goddamn experience, you
>knucklehead! I might also add that I've been in uninterrupted remission
>for two years now, BECAUSE psychotheraputic drug regimen allowed me to
>get my foot in the door to "fix" the psychological problems I had.
>
>My $0.02. Your mileage may vary.
>

 I missed most of this debate but let me just add this. I also have dealt
 with panic attacks since I was a child as far back as I can remember (5
 to 6 years of age). I have always been and still am sure that their origin
 was biological and *not* psychological in nature, although having to cope
 with them certainly *caused* some psychological problems. A year ago I
 finally steeled myself and went to see a psychiatrist, fully expecting
 to be told that it was all in my head. After talking with him he prescribed
 a tri-cyclic and informed me that from the symptoms I described it seemed
 very likely that the origin was biological. After reaching an effective
 dosage the symptoms cleared up immediately without any need for psycho-
 therapy or counselling. Further research on my own has uncovered abundant
 information on factors contributing to biological origin of panic disorders.

 The moral? There is ample evidence for biological causes of mental problems.
 Clearly there can also be psychological causes and/or probably most often,
 both biological and psychological.

-kelvin
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Avoiding radioactive household products
From: Robin.Salmansohn@f715.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Robin Salmansohn)
Date: 1 Sep 92 04:51:34 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:273/715 - Alternative Lifesty, Wyndmoor PA


 To: rrempel@selkirk.sfu.ca (Rodney Dwight Rempel)
 
 RDR> Come on now ... the radiation from the 
 RDR> foundation of the house is way
 RDR> worse for you than the bananas. So is the radiation from the other 
 RDR> people in the house ... I'ld like to suggest 
 RDR> that the radiation-phobes
 RDR> move to a deserted island and eat only naturally 
 RDR> grown grain, but both
 RDR> the air they will be breathing and the grain will still contain 
 RDR> radioactive isotopes ... Better luck next life.
 
Is it your foundation or is it a gas (not a flame)?
If you want to scare some people run MESH searches on a lot of people's
favorite mineral suppliment, and see how much lead and radioactive matter is 
indigeneous to (e.g. Dolomite). It is really rather high
in radioctive isotopes, lead, and a few other nice things.


 

--  
Internet: Robin.Salmansohn@f715.n273.z1.fidonet.org