HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: Monthly Mortgage vs. Biweekly Mortgage
Date: 24 Jul 92 01:16:09 GMT
Reply-To: asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Organization: Foundation for the Increased Wealth of Chipmunks

Written in article <9014202@bailey.UUCP>
 by ben@bailey.UUCP (Ben Bailey):

: sherm@phx.mcd.mot.com (cassie) writes:
:> I hadn't run across any lenders who would permit you to 
:> not send in the extra 2 payments.  In my experience
:> paying off a 30 year loan early is the only CAN option.
:> With the bi-weekly scheme you MUST make all 26 payments.
:
: I'm not sure if I've followed your meaning here, so my followup may sound
: out of context.  Anyway, I have a 30 year loan which calls for monthly 
:    payments,
: which I am actually paying off in bi-weekly payments.  So I'm obligated to
: monthly payments, but am choosing the bi-weekly.  

I believe the point is this: if you pay bi-weekly payments, you pay the
loan off faster, because you have 26 payments/year.  Monthly payments
are 12/year, and paying twice a month is only 24/year.  Therefore, bi-
weekly is like paying 13 months instead of 12.

Now.  That extra month works towards reducing the principle.  This is
how the loan is payed off faster, thus saving money in interest.  But, 
you MUST pay that extra month.  If you run into temporary financial 
difficulties, you is stuck.

If you pay a normal 12 month loan, then VOLUNTARILY put in an extra
month's worth, you acheive essentially the same effect.  Except, if 
times is tough, you don't HAVE to pay it.  You can choose to keep that
extra month's payment because you need it elsewhere.

Similary, with the 15 year mortgages.  Instead of a 30 year mortgage, 
you pay more per month, and the loan is paid off in 15 years.  Equity
accumulates much faster, so even if you only stay but a few years, 
you'll owe a LOT less on the house.

However, I prefer the 30 year plan.  You can compute the 15 year monthly
payment minus the 30 year monthly payment, and simply make that EXTRA
monthly payment to reduce your principle.  You have a 30 year contract,
with the lower monthly obligation, but you simply pay as tho it were a 
15 year contract.

If you work it out on a spreadsheet, you'll find the results are the 
same, within a few dollars.  The loan will be paid off in the same 
amount of time, within a month or two.

BUT ... if you lose your job, or your wife decides to quit work, or you
pick up an investment house with negative cash-flow, or WHATEVER ... you 
won't be foreclosed because you decide NOT to put in that extra principle 
payment.  With a 15 year contract, the entire payment is necessary.

-- 
The Chipmunk.
Opinions are mine, batteries not included, void where prohibited.
Politics is like coaching a football team.  You have to be smart enough
to understand the game but not smart enough to lose interest.
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate,misc.invest,misc.consumers
From: rgarg@tellabs.com (Rajesh Garg)
Subject: Re: Mortgage rates (Refinance Rates).
Organization: T
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:00:03 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.175748.23132) writes:
>
>
>15 YEARS Fixed rate at 7.75% with 0 points.
>
>The name of the company is Century Mortgage.  Telephone number is
>(708)369-1900. I talked to Ken Derickson.
>
>Please, do some more research. Do not take my word for it. At least
>you have some basis to compare rates from other companies. Give me call
>if I can answer any basic questions. 
>
>

Their service and their rates are alright.
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: HUD homes (types)
From: asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:05:15 GMT
Reply-To: asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Organization: Foundation for the Increased Wealth of Chipmunks

Written in article <143530002@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>
 by duanej@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Duane Jacobson):

: It's my understanding that HUD handles properties resulting from defaults
: on federally-insured loans (usually FHA loans).  I've noticed that most
: of the HUD properties are condos and cheaper homes.  I'm not sure why this
: is,

Well, for one thing, the FHA will only lend up to a certain amount.
That amount is adjusted for inflation from time to time, but, depending
on where you're shopping, tends to remain at or beneath the average
selling price.

Also, don't forget that sometimes the reason a house gets foreclosed is
because they could NOT SELL IT.  Why couldn't they sell?  One reason
often is the neighborhood STINKS.  I've seen a HUD house that was on a 
lousy street surrounded by wonderful streets.  It was amazing driving 
around the area: nice street, nice street, YUCK! HUD House Street, nice 
street, nice street ...  It was hard to believe the difference a few 
feet made.

: but there must surely be defaults on more expensive FHA-financed loans.

What do you call "expensive?"  Federally insured maximum loan is now at
around $203k, someone tells me, only very recently increased from $191k.
In parts of California that'll buy you a real nice 1 bdrm condo, with a
view of the neighbor's wall, and 5 free cans of graffitti removal paint.

: Anyway, I found the HUD listings to be pretty useless (today) in my search
: for a house.

If the range of values is under what you're looking for, that very well
may be true.  Consider the investment value of getting a cheap house in
a cheap neighborhood, unless you only want your own dwelling right now.

Also, don't give up totally on the listings.  Get to know the areas
you're interested in that have the price range within FHA guidelines.
You might just spot something.

-- 
The Chipmunk.
Opinions are mine, batteries not included, void where prohibited.
The more we disagree, the more chance there is that at least one of us
is right.
From: markh@sag4.ssl.berkeley.edu (Mark Hurwitz)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: One Man's Survey of Recent San Francisco Home Prices
Date: 27 Jul 1992 19:43:16 GMT
Organization: Space Science Labs
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: sag4.ssl.berkeley.edu

	As a followup to my previous posting about San Francisco
home prices...

	Home prices are still obscene.  But, prices are softening, and 
homes are not selling, despite the lower prices and despite the phenomenally 
low mortgage rates we have right now.  Over the past few months we have seen

	-2 Br home offered at $279 K.  No takers.  Lowered to $249 K.
No takers.  Home is remodeled: new kitchen, new paint.  Priced at
$275 K.  No takers.  Home is now offered at $265 K, with "sellers motivated!".
Still sitting.

	-1 Br home offered at $179 K.  Now at $159 K.  Still sitting.

	-2 Br home offered at $269 K; now down to $239 K.  Still sitting.

	The initial asking price for these home was not especially 
high by (former) CA standards.  I see things slipping, even in SF.
And real estate brokers are *not* eager to talk about it - I keep
looking for those articles about declining home values in the weekly 
Real Estate section of the newspaper, and I'm not seeing 'em.

	The stories newspapers do carry contain news of the state budget
crisis, and news of companies relocating to cheaper areas, taking jobs
with them.

	I scanned some of the tax rolls which our agent printed out
for us back when we were considering a purchase.  Typical scenario:
8 houses on a block.  7 houses last sold between 1970 - 1980; owners
paying about $500 a year in property taxes.  "Home value" for property
tax purposes is $60 - 100 K.  Then there's always one house, bought
in 1988, for $249 K, owners paying $2800 in property taxes.  Somehow,
that's always the house that's currently for sale.
	
	The bubble hasn't burst yet, but I think it's getting there...

-Mark
From: markh@sag4.ssl.berkeley.edu (Mark Hurwitz)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: One Man's Survey of Recent San Francisco Home Prices
Date: 28 Jul 1992 00:40:39 GMT
Organization: Space Science Labs
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: sag4.ssl.berkeley.edu

In article <64465@hydra.gatech.EDU> jbutterf@mal-s1.gatech.edu (Jill Butterfield) writes:
>
>I've always heard that home prices in CA were ridiculous, but this 
>amazed me! Are salaries that much higher than everywhere else?

The prices I quoted (roughly $250 K for a 2 Br / 1 Ba) are for ordinary
San Francisco homes on a 25 X 100 foot lot in the Glen Park area.
For a nicely remodeled house, add $20 K.  For a generally run-down
place (inadequate electrical outlets, other repair work needed) subtract
the $20 K.  Amenities such as a view, 2-car gar, etc. cost more.

Glen Park is a reasonably nice but by no means fancy or exclusive
neighborhood of San Francisco.  Just on the other side of the highway,
in a not-so-nice neighborhood without good access to a safe park or the subway 
system, a comparable house would be about $30K cheaper.

Prices in smaller towns are of course more reasonable.  But,
most places in the Bay Area and LA area (i.e. where most jobs
are), prices are high.  In Palo Alto, I think you'd have to spend 
about $40K more than the prices I estimated in Glen Park.

Of course, this is as of today / last month.  Next month?  Who knows.

>My house (much larger, nicer house) cost $98900!
>So this same house would probably cost 3x that in CA.
>Would my salary be 3x higher out there?

Maybe 25% higher (ballpark figure only).

>No wonder so many people are leaving CA! 

On the other hand, do you have only a 3.5-hour drive to reach fine ski areas?

Are you 20 minutes away from a gorgeous sea coast?

Are you an hour from world-class vineyards and wine makers?

Does it get hot and sticky where you are?  Are there mosquitoes?

I am not putting down the world beyond California.
Nor do I mean to ignore the other problems we do face out here
	(traffic, earthquakes, drought, and, increasingly, crime).
But there *are* many reasons why people choose to live here.
Affordable housing, however, is not one of them...

-Mark

Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: jstein@tellab1.tellabs.com (Jeff Steinhauer)
Subject: FIXED vs BALOON vs ARM
Organization: Tellabs, Inc. Lisle IL
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:29:37 GMT

Which mortgage is better is which situation? Advantages? Disadvantages?
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: bobk@sequent.com (Bob Krull)
Subject: Re: Books/Mags on home repairing
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 17:08:11 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.152722.20670@tc.fluke.COM> kimbo@tc.fluke.COM (Kim R. Boyer) writes:
>amar@Data-IO.COM (Amar Chawla) writes:
>
>>It is a pleasure to subscribe to a News group in real-estate investing.
>
>>I am planning to buy a house which needs repair and fixing up.  Could
>>any of you out there tell me if there are any magazines or books which 
>>might make me literate in home repairing.  What else can I do to gain 
>>experience in repairing before I buy this house?  
>
>
>I've always found the Time-Life series of books on Home Improvement and
>the series on Home Repairs (Fix It Yourself?) to be very useful.  They
>are well illustrated and usually have enough info. to get you started.
>Or, more importantly, enough CONFIDENCE to get you started!
>
>

Far be it from me (Mr. Handyman) to discourage anyone from trying his hand
at this stuff.  But just don't forget the old adage:

"If you think a professinal is expensive, just try hiring an amateur".

Bob Krull
bobk@sequent.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: ramezani@are.Berkeley.EDU (Cyrus Ahmad Ramezani)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: The ALL INCLUSIVE LOANS
Date: 25 Jul 1992 23:01:01 GMT
Organization: UC Berkeley, Agr & Res Economics
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: are.berkeley.edu



Dear Netters, Investors, etc.

   Though unsure if this is the appropriate place to post this questions,
I seek help to demystify what the so called "All Inclusive" (AI) loans are.

  Our encounter with this beast happened in the following setting: A relative
responding to an advertisement in local new paper went in to refinance his
thirty year loan. His aim was to get a fifteen year loan at lower rate.
Given his week language skills we believe he was taken for a ride: i.e.,
he ended up with another thirty year loan at the same rate ( paid the
full expense of refinancing) and a so called AI loan for 13 years
that essentially restructures the payments on the 30 year loan so that it
is paid off in 13 years. For this service they ended up paying 2 points
"AI Loan Fee".

   They were never told of the thirty year refinancing business and only
discovered its existence when the financing company had neglected payment
on this loan while collecting on the 13 year loan.  This is how we
discovered the details of the loan. Our attempts to get the attention of
the financing company proved fruitless until we brought a suit at the
small claims court. Then the president of the company met with us about
three times and we began to discover all the details of the deal. We
demanded that the 2 points AI fee be refunded to us and we be given
guaranties that after the 13 years of payment we should not be held
for the thirty years loan.  The firm offered to give us $500 for our troubles
and a statement to absolve us of responsibility for the 30 year loan.
Would any one out there be interested to comment on the following:

  1. How common and safe are these AI loans.
  2. Given that my relatives spoke very little English can we claim
     they did not understand all the form that they actually signed ?
  3. Does the fact that the company is willing to give up something
     indicate that something may be wrong?
  4. We have a small claim court shortly. Is there any hope that we
     can recover the added fee ?

  5. Any suggestion you may have would be most appreciated. We strongly
     believe that the sales person misrepresented the facts and was at
     fault. Certainly they were very pushy in their dealing.

Thanks you for your comments. If you like you can direct mail to me
and I will summarize for other netters. Also I would appreciate suggestions
for posting else where.

Regards,

 Cyrus  (ramezani@are.berkeley.edu)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: lgold@callahans.Cadence.COM (Lynn Gold)
Subject: Re: Disadvantages with For Sale by Owner?
Organization: /mnt4/lgold/.organization
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1992 06:58:47 GMT

I bought my place from the owners.

To get the legal stuff processed, we went to a place where you pay $1k
and they hash out the title search and so forth.

Had the owner gone through a real estate agent, it would've cost me
about $7k more to buy the place.  I feel I got a good deal, and the
owners didn't have to hassle with agents.

If you're selling and you can find a buyer without going through an
agent, you both get a better deal.

--Lynn
--
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?<&QY97(@=V5R92!T;R!H97)E(&%B;W5T('1H:7,A"F%P
`
From: alvin@zany.mips.com (Alvin Oga)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: Resale of vacation property
Date: 24 Jul 1992 02:53:58 GMT
Organization: MIPS Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: alvin@zany.mips.com (Alvin Oga)
NNTP-Posting-Host: zany.mips.com
Keywords: resale, tax

In article <1992Jul23.234903.25002@nmsu.edu>, mmartin@nmsu.edu (Marilyn Martin) writes:
|> If I sell a vacation property (a cabin in the mountains), is it treated
|> like a home? I don't own any other property. Do I have to pay capital
|> gains on the profits if I don't spend the money on another house?
|> 
|> If I spend the money on another house, do I have to pay taxes anyway?
|> 
|> Thanks
|> Marilyn

THAT DEPENDS ON HOW YOU'VE BEEN HANDLING THE
PROPERTY ON YOUR TAX RETURNS PREVIOUSLY.

In either case, you can do a tax deferred exchange:
	IRC 1031 for rental/income property
	IRC 1034 for primary residence rollover
You can have 'two primary residences'...!!!!

If you been collecting rent and declaring it as income and offseting it
with your PITI payments and taking depreciation...than it kind-a-looks
like an 'income/rental property'.

If you just wrote off the PITI payments on your schedule A ...then it
probably is a 'primary residence'....

There's a few more 'tests' that you need to meet in order to find out
what you can and what you cannot do.

PS...It doesn't matter what you want to call it...BUT WHAT YOU DID
	over the last few tax returns that makes a difference.

Please talk with a knowledgeable CPA relating to 1034 & 1031 issues.
If they don't know what you're talking about...find another CPA or 
tax attorney.

Good Luck
alvin		alvin@mips.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: dan@cae.prds.cdx.mot.com (Dan Breslau)
Subject: Re: is buyer - agent agreement necessary?
Organization: none
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 12:45:51 GMT

ajg@controls.ccd.harris.com (Arnold Goldberg) writes:

>>>>>> On 20 Jul 1992 13:57:33 -0700, sutter@calvin.usc.edu (Carl Sutter) said:
>	Carl> In article <1992Jul20.200600.2967@rice.edu> rep@is.rice.edu (Robert Pietsch) writes:
>>A Real-estate agent works for the seller not the buyer. 
>>In fact.... if you tell the agent you will go as high as $xxx,xxx.00
>>he/she is obligated to tell the owner.
>	Carl> I've received a couple of replies to this effect.  I guess it's not clear
>	Carl> to me who my agent represents, since he is mostly showing me houses that
>	Carl> are not being sold by his company.  If I decide to buy a place being listed
>	Carl> by another agent, I was assuming my agent would bargain on my behalf.
>	Carl> Is that right, or do both agents work for the seller at that point?

>Well, you're encountering one of the main shortcomings of the current Realtor
>setup.  Both agents actually DO work for the seller, but someone obviously
>has to give the appearance that they are working for the buyer so that
>they can entice him to buy.

>The optimal solution is to find a good Buyer Realtor.  They're few and
>far between, but becoming more and more popular as more buyers realize
>that they've got the odds stacked against them.

From the original post, not included here, it sounds like this *is* a Buyer
Realtor we're talking about -- one who works for the buyer, not the seller.

Whether he's good, and worth the extra 3.5% (remember, this is probably ON
TOP OF the regular seller's commission) is another story.  I'd NEVER sign
a contract for an *exclusive* buyer's broker.  Paying the extra commission
depends on what you feel comfortable with.

The best bet is probably to find a regular broker, one who does represent
the seller, but whom you can trust personally (preferably a friend or
a friend of a trusted friend.)  This is how I bought my condo (at the top
of the market :-(, but that's my fault, not the broker's.)  It worked
out well -- I knew she represented the seller, but as a Realtor (tm), and
as a FOAF, she was bound to deal ethically with me, and did so.

Dan Breslau
dan@codex.com
Disc claimer:  "Hey!  That's my floppy!"


Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: jstein@tellabs.com (Jeff Steinhauer)
Subject: Ballon vs fixed vs ARM
Organization: Tellabs, Inc., Lisle, IL
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:20:18 GMT


I'm pretty familiar with the types of loans available, but which
loan is better in which situation(recommendations of when to use
what type of loan).
From: ben@bailey.UUCP (Ben Bailey)
Subject: Re: Monthly Mortgage vs. Biweekly Mortgage
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:46:55 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Ben Bailey's Home..Tampa Fl.

macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis) writes:
> In article <6812205@bailey.UUCP> ben@bailey.UUCP (Ben Bailey) writes:
> 
> To compare monthly and biweekly fairly, please recalculate the
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> advantage using biweekly-schedule payments of 2*X/4.33 instead of
> 2*X/4.  You will find that the advantage is indeed marginal.
> 

I've already shown my calculations and demonstrated my conclusions.  You
should show your calculations and demonstrate your conclusions.
(I've shown you mine, now you show me yours! :-) )

Ben
--
Ben Bailey                 ben@bailey.uucp -- bailey!ben@uunet.uu.net
12210 Shady Forest Dr.     ben@bailey.tscs.com
Riverview, Fl. 33569       -- A programmer without his computer is like a 
813-677-5021                  boy without his dog.
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: bobk@sequent.com (Bob Krull)
Subject: Re: A FAQ on interest
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 17:26:59 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.162017.20429@cbfsb.cb.att.com> gnreddy@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (G.Narotham Reddy) writes:
>While skimming through the Real Estate section, I was paying close
>attention to the 'fine' print which says "You have to pay $7.92 /month
>per 1k borrowed".  
>
>Can some one explain this in detail.
>
>Narotham Reddy
>

Hmm,

Not much detail here.  Were you perhaps reading about a home equity line
of credit?  These are frequently quoted as interest-only loans (at least
for the first couple of years),  and the $7.92/$1000/month is about the
right interest rate (9.5%).

-Bob Krull
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: wicklund@intellistor.com (Tom Wicklund)
Subject: Re: 3% discount on houses
Organization: Intellistor, Inc.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 23:56:59 GMT

In <1992Jul21.150351.9921@nb.rockwell.com> guthrie@nb.rockwell.com (Karen Guthrie) writes:

>OK, here is how you get around half of the realtors commission
>when you buy.  

>3.  Now that you are talking to the listing agent who has something
>    to gain by selling the property express interest in their listing
>    at ... address.  Tell them that you are working without a realtor
>    and that if you should buy this property you will expect them to
>    write your offer but only to take the 3% due to the listing agent.

Since the seller pays the commission, realize that you're probably
just reducing the selling price to the seller by 3%.

Real estate listing contracts I've seen (in Minnesota) specifically
state that the agent gets 6% (or whatever) from the seller.  Legally
the seller must pay the agent the stated commission.  The agent might
agree with you but they can then go to the seller for the full 6%.

However, I have had an agent offer to reduce his commission in order
to have a sale go through.  I basically said I wouldn't accept an
offer if my share were less than a certain amount (in this case, the
amount of my loss).  The agent reduced the commission a bit to stay
within my constraints.

Personally I'd say you're much better off making an offer for about 3%
less than the asking price.  Offers are often made for less than the
asking price and unless the market is really hot you have a good
chance of having the seller accept 3% under the listing price.

By the way -- you can't go directly to the seller to avoid the
commission (at least, not legally).  Listing contracts prohibit the
seller from cancelling the contract and then selling to anybody who
expressed interest in the property while the contract was in force.  I
assume that agents will scrutinize any quick sale of a property which
had a recently cancelled or expired listing.
From: duanej@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Duane Jacobson)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 01:06:51 GMT
Subject: Re: Monthly Mortgage vs. Biweekly Mortgage
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA