From: mzhao@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Min Zhao)
Subject: Re: Ohio State Football - No fun, no future to it's players and recruits
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 23:10:23 GMT

In article <DOEL.93Jan4151417@bbq.bae.bellcore.com> doel@bae.bellcore.com (Michael Doel) writes:
>
>
>Oh no, here we go again.

"Oh no, here we go again."
 
  right, what you just said just about summarized Ohio State's football program.
 

>>   Roger Harper, right on the Citrius Bowl field after losing: I'm out here !
>> 
>>   Smith: This guy is a great talent, but what does he have to show for ?  If
>> we had a winning program,
>
>excuse me, but 8-3-1 is a winning program.  It's also our best record under

     Yes, it is. No doubt about that, especially on paper. We all learned 
arithmatics, we know 8 is better than 3, and we are smart enough to know
8-3 implys we won more times than we lost.
    But ask the players on the team, ask the seniors, ask if they have won
anything.  Ask how they really feel in their heart. Their heart says we NEVER
won. And that is a disappointing feeling ! And that hurts the inside of 
people like Kline, Cook, Herbstreit when they leave Ohio State. Remember, 
they didn't come here for their Master Degrees or PhD degrees like we did 
when we went to school. They came here to play football, to beat Michigan,
to go to Rose Bowl, to become champions.  Some people have told me to put
things into perspective. And that is the perspective.

>Cooper (and an improvement over last year which was an improvement over the
>previous year).  Ohio State is not some insignificant nobody on the map of
>college football.
    
   Not totally yet...

>  We're still a highly respect power.
         ^^^^^ 
    Respected ? Sure. Highly respected ?  Maybe.  But that's not Cooper's
credit to take.
    Cooper's credit is in making that "still" into "used to be"
     
>
>
>>                            Smith would benefit by staying in school and 
>> showcase his abilities next season (and maybe the year after too). There
>> is nothing for him to stay for (as far as football is corcerned).
>
>Smith has nothing to stay for?!?  How about a good shot at a Big10
>Championship next year?  How about being amongst the group considered early
>favorites for the Heisman trophy?  How about another full year to show he's
>ready for the pros?

    How fast we forget !  Ask Chris Stassen and a few others, didn't they
say last (92) should be Cooper's year ?  Wasn't Smith considered a Heisman
candidate early in the season ? 
 
    "Oh no, here we go again".
 
   What Smith and many of the team members have seen are quite different
from what you see.  They don't see no future here in Ohio State. They 
have experienced disappointment after disappointment, grief after grief,
reality after reality. 

>
>
>>   John Cooper and the Ohio State football program have done grave injustice
>> to Smith as well as all the other talents that came to Ohio State to grow.
>
>Phoey!  Tell that to Steve Tovar who led Ohio State's best defense in years.
>Or tell it to Greg Smith and Brian Stablein who earned conference honors
>after walking on.  Or tell it to Kirk Herbstreit who came to Ohio State
>known strictly as an option quarterback only to finish the regular season
>with Ohio State's all-time completion percentage record.
 
     Just think, maybe a Big Ten championship or two, a significant win
(on TV) or two, a bowl victory or two, can help to increase these players
pro stock ? 
     Suppose we had gone 11-0 this year, (which we could), maybe we would 
have a few more All Big-Tens and All-Americas ?  Don't you think so ? Maybe
someone like Robert Smith or Steve Tovar might actually win an award or two ?
Don't you think they have the atheletic skills ?
     Maybe you still remember football is a team sport. A player is as good 
as your team is. What is all the talk about Gino Torreta these two days ? He
has had a winning program in Miami to help him shine ! A championship ring
to let him show ! A good record to speak of !

>>   I can't help to feel for the kids. They came to Ohio State, not just 
>> because it's Ohio State, to be part of a proud tradition, now the 
>> tradition is all but losing it's shine. They came here to win games, 
>> to improve their skills and showcase their talents, and some of them
>> to go on to the next level. Now all these kids will have to live all 
>> their lives to regret their decision to have come to Ohio State, to 
>> live with the fact that they never win anything of significance at 
>> Ohio State, to live with the facts that their potential for better future
>> in the NFL have not been helped at all, if not hurt by playing at 
>> Ohio State.
>
>You make it sound as if the players have nothing to do with it - like
>they're little pawns in some coaching game.  The players have everything to
>do with it.  John Cooper didn't lose to Illinois this year, the players did.
>John Cooper didn't exhibit sloppy tackling against Georgia, the players did.
>John Cooper didn't play uninspired against Wisconsin, the players did.  The
>players aren't regretting their decision to come to Ohio State, they're
>regretting the missed block or tackle that caused the loss.
 
   So can I be coach ?  Or maybe you will make a better coach ? Sure, they are
all the players doing.  But coach's job is to make sure they don't do 
certain things and do certain things, and in the end, to win games. 

    How do you know they are not regreting their decision to come to Ohio
State and not winning anything, no beating Michigan, no Rose Bowl, not 
much anything else.  You don't seem to listen to what the players on this
team have to say, do you ?  I even quoted some in my original article, you
simply deleted those.

>
>Ohio State this year exhibited the talent and preparation to beat every team
>they played.  That's the coach's job.  After that, it comes down to luck and
>execution.  Don't blame the coach when these two don't go your way.  Blame
>the players for poor execution. 
 
   That's Cooper's coaching style, point the blame finger at the players. 
(to be fair, Cooper has been better the last two years than the first two,
 he hasn't blamed the players that much in his news conferences after a 
 loss as he used to)
 
>>   I am also tired of the argument that firing Cooper now will hurt 
>> recruiting.  Who are you cheating ?  If I am an outside coach, be it 
>> Gary Moller, Joe Paterno, or Lou Holtz, recruiting a prep star in Ohio
>> (let's not even consider outside Ohio), all I need to tell the kid is,
>> "Do you really want to go to Ohio State ? " Do you really want to play
>> for John Cooper and his Ohio State team ?" "And you know what means, don't  
>> you ?"
>
>To which Cooper answers "we've improved every year I've been here."  Since
>we finished second in the Big10 this year, I think the pattern shows that
>we're competing for the conference title with regularity now.  If you really
>think Cooper is the problem (i.e. you must think the program is worse off now
>than it was when he arrived) then what is the solution?
>
 
    To which, Gary Moller will say, "look, kid, was Robert Smith a good
player ?  Did he win anything ?   Was Bryan Cook good in High school ?  
you see where he is now ?  Don't you want to follow Desmond Howard's 
step ?  Don't you think we (Michigan) has done good for Elvis Grbac ?"
 
    To which, Lou Holtz will say, "look, you can come to Norte Dame and
you know for sure you'll be on a winning team, among the nations top, 
and you know why Michigan consider us and Michigan State as their real
rivals ?  "

    To which, they kid will think again, "do I really have to play for 
Ohio State just because I was born a Buckeye ?"

>>   (too add to the point, did you read the story that right after Larry
>> Smith's departure and John Robinson's hiring, a couple stars in that 
>> team immediately announced that they will stay in school)
>
>John Robinson is an ex-USC coach with lots of experience in the pros.  This
>is a situation very similar to Bill Walsh returning to Stanford.  Who fits
>this bill for the Buckeyes?  Answer: nobody.  Your anecdotal evidence that
>recruiting and team continuity wouldn't be hurt by a coaching change is
>baseless.
>
   Continuity of what ?  I never understand that reasoning !  You already
know someone can't do the job, and you want keep him for continuity !
If I am a prep star, I sure don't want that continuity if for whatever
reasons I decide to play for Ohio State (that's if I decide to play for
Ohio State). I sure what a change for someone that can help me grow, a 
change for someone who will guide me to winnings and championships and
trophies and sucessess.  Yes, I want change, I don't want continuity of
failure ! 
>
>>   Firing Cooper will only bring hope, and hope is what all is left here 
>> in the state of Ohio, for the Ohio State players who already came
>> here, for the Ohio young kids who are born to bleed Buckeye blood, for
>> the millions of Ohioians who used to take pride in their Ohio State Buckeye
>> football.
>
>Only if you can hire Bill Walsh, Lou Holtz, or resurrect Woody Hayes.  Just
>about anyone else would reveal the act for the cowardice which precipitated
>it.
 
   That's unknown, since we don't have not fired Cooper or hired anyone yet.
But Cooper is known, he can't won anything of significance.
 
   If I run my own bussiness, I always give a guy a chance. If I know after 
a reasonable period he is good, I keep him, if I know he is not, I let him
go and bring another one whom I think in my best judgement is the best
available at that time. Bill Walsh is good, Lou Holtz is good, Joe Smith
can probably be good, John Doe could be the one. The bottom line is, 
John Cooper is not.
   There is no cowardice in that. That's just how things are supposed to be
run.


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