HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: niel@cars.com (Niel Bornstein)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: The Critique (was Re: major staff changes for Phantom)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 09:57:26 EDT
Organization: Heavy Objects R Us
Reply-To: chinchilla!niel@cars.com
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1


In article <1dm28iINN16k@bigboote.WPI.EDU> (alt.drumcorps), ddm@wpi.WPI.EDU (David D Marshall) writes:
>In article <01050023.hvt3f8@chinchilla.cars.com> chinchilla!niel@cars.com writes:
>>
>>...  Joe fan can't go up to Freddy Martin and say, "Yo, Fred,
>>I think if you had changed that second move in the OTL, you would
>>have gotten a better M&M score."  The judges can, however.
>>
>I don't think Freddy Martin would listen to Joe Fan or Mr. Judge.  He'll
>just ignore them all say that he knows what's right and wrong.
>Just my $0.02.
>--David

I was just using him as an example, but this brings up the point I
was trying to make:  Freddy uses the critique (or did, I don't know
if he's still involved in the day-to-day operations) as a chance to
tell the judges what fools they are.  Do other corp directors and
staffers do this too?

Niel

|--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Niel M. Bornstein                              chinchilla!niel@cars.com |
| 1352 North Morningside Drive               ...csn!sable!chinchilla!niel |
| Atlanta, Georgia  30306                 (404) 872-6883   (404) 551-8075 |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Opinions? I don't need no stinkin' opinions!                            |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: R.Vincent.Lamb@um.cc.umich.edu
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: St. Angel and the Bird
Date: 11 Nov 1992 13:11:02 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Nov11.051749.22419@hubcap.clemson.edu>, rwberry@ 
hubcap.clemson.edu (Robert W Berry) wrote (Re: St. Angel and the
Bird):
 
|>There are *so* many reasons not to march Phantom, though.  1/2 ;-).
|> 
|>I have *always* hated their run-it-until-we-get-it philosophy.  It's
|>better now (or at least the last time I saw them rehearse which was
|>in 1990) but it's still there.
|> 
|>Back in the '70's the kids from Phantom were always bitching that
|>they rehearsed so hard when BD had time for days off and such.  But the staff
|>at BD had an incredible way of cleaning their show in that they
|>would identify the cause of the problem, and not address the symptoms.
|>(Which was what Phantom did at the time.)
 
This "run-it-until-we-get-it" philosophy had its effects on other
corps as well.  In 1979, North Star was on tour with Phantom and
our housing was so close to theirs that we could hear them rehearse.
They *never* stopped!  The instructors noted this and used it.
One day, the horn line was getting tired from the heat and long
rehearsals on tour (at home, North Star only practiced 7:30-10:30
Tuesday-Friday and 1-5 on weekends, even at summer peak, so that
practicing 8+ hr/day on tour was more than the corps was used to), 
so they (we!) asked for a break.  The instructors retorted that:
"Phantom was out all day rehearsing at full volume without a break
and they're 5 points ahead of you!  You want to beat Phantom?  Keep
practicing!"  So we played our show full volume in the hot sun all
day :-b !
|>... this is not meant to offend you, Brad.  These are just personal
|>Observations that I had while marching against Phantom night after
|>night.)
 
I doubt Brad will be offended.  He seems fed up with Phantom enough
as it is.
 
Vince
From: greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: Snare Technology
Date: 6 Nov 92 17:03:50 GMT
Reply-To: greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: antizen.ebay.sun.com


>It was all simpler when BD marched with North Drums...

Now that was very cool. They sounded sooooooo awesome. The biggest
problem was the the drums weren't constructed to take the pressure
that they were taking by being tuned so high. The rims were caving
in and squaring out.

There was a Canadian Corps that marched with triple congas back 
in either '76, '77 or '78. Anyone remember who they were?

Greg
From: niel@cars.com (Niel Bornstein)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: The Critique (was Re: major staff changes for Phantom)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 10:07:43 EDT
Organization: Heavy Objects R Us
Reply-To: chinchilla!niel@cars.com
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1


In article <1992Nov5.031420.7982@vela.acs.oakland.edu> (alt.drumcorps), bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu (HALLS BRADLEY F) writes:
>... You have to realise that it us frustrating to be
>judged by people who are not as educated in the activity as you would like
>them to be, but it's something you have to deal with. ...

This brings up a subject which was bandied about a bit when I marched.
Originally the critique existed so that the judges could educate the
instructors as to what they were doing wrong, or what they could improve.
Later, as the caliber of instruction improved, the instructors started
using it as an instrument for ranting at the judges.  I don't know
what happens today.

So, what does the critique do today?  Both the judges and the instructors
have a very high level of knowledge (at least at the open-class level)
about the activity and what it takes to get ahead.  I tend to view
the critique as the judges' chance to, effectively, act as consultants
to the corps.  Joe fan can't go up to Freddy Martin and say, "Yo, Fred,
I think if you had changed that second move in the OTL, you would
have gotten a better M&M score."  The judges can, however.

Any thoughts on this?

|--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Niel M. Bornstein                              chinchilla!niel@cars.com |
| 1352 North Morningside Drive               ...csn!sable!chinchilla!niel |
| Atlanta, Georgia  30306                 (404) 872-6883   (404) 551-8075 |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Opinions? I don't need no stinkin' opinions!                            |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: rbeckham@bnr.ca (Rick Beckham)
Subject: Re: Snare Technology
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:31:21 GMT

In article <1dp059INNf0p@bigboote.WPI.EDU> ddm@wpi.WPI.EDU (David D Marshall) writes:
>In article <1992Nov10.154849.13203@bnr.ca> rbeckham@bnr.ca (Rick Beckham) writes:
>>
>>  All this talk about the falams and whether they project/don't project as
>>well as silver-dots deserves some further reflection. Examining this
>>discussion from aspects such as '..air being displaced' seems to me a bit
>>on the long-road. Why not drag out the physics books and look up which
>>sound has a longer duration? If memory serves, the lower pitch has a
>>shorter duration (correct me if I'm wrong), therefore it will travel the	shortest distance.
>>
>>  As for the falams I find that mistakes are easily masked (such as flat
>>flams) because of the high-pitched shorter duration sound. I've witnessed
>>quite a few lines (high school, college, drum corp) that in my opinion
>>received higher scores than they should've because of the falams.	
>>
>I have to disagree with this last point.  On the contrary, there is less
>post attack resonation from a Falam head because of the higher tensions
>in the surface of the head.  It is tougher for the head to propagate waves
>(displace air) when a large force is required to establish the amplitude of
>the wave.  Therefore, the initial attack will be heard (qualitatively at
>a near equivalent volume as plastic), but there will be less residual
>resonation (grass) to cover up the dirt.  

  Good point.
  I agree that there will be less residual resonation, but I think dirt
  is easier to cover because more than one player is involved.
  A single snare drummer's flat flams are very noticeable (tick), and     
  flat flams coming from a strong player in a line are also noticeable.
  But generally mistakes like flat flams tend to be dropped more by weak
  players, hence can be covered by the other players. With a deeper
  pitch, this same player will project more, his/her mistake will
  resonant longer.    

>There is probably the phenomena of echoing occuring more frequently with 
>the Falams since they are rich in upper frequencies, and those frequencies
>aren't absorbed as well by objects.  That would explain how a lot of lines
>sound trashy on tapes.

  Stadiums are pretty big. If the sound doesn't travel far it may not have
  to be absorbed.

>These are just guesses using the few courses I've taken that can relate to
>the issue.  Please feel free to question.
>--David
>-- 
> Spirit '88      |"So get off your butt and ride."      |     _,-~o     |
> ?????? '93      |"It's the motor that wins the races." |    _-\_<,     |
>                 |               E-mail ddm@wpi.wpi.edu |   (*)/'(*)    |


  This also reminds me of a trick the Bridgemen used to pull, whereas
  they tuned the bottom heads a full octave lower than the top. IMHO
  this is only one step higher than stuffing the drum.
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: rbeckham@bnr.ca (Rick Beckham)
Subject: Re: Snare Technology
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:48:49 GMT


  All this talk about the falams and whether they project/don't project as
well as silver-dots deserves some further reflection. Examining this
discussion from aspects such as '..air being displaced' seems to me a bit
on the long-road. Why not drag out the physics books and look up which
sound has a longer duration? If memory serves, the lower pitch has a
shorter duration (correct me if I'm wrong), therefore it will travel the	shortest distance.

  As for the falams I find that mistakes are easily masked (such as flat
flams) because of the high-pitched shorter duration sound. I've witnessed
quite a few lines (high school, college, drum corp) that in my opinion
received higher scores than they should've because of the falams.	

  The reminds me of the Ludwig HV snares from '81 (remember those?).
Phantom was the most exposed snare line that year (the sound projected
further, hence mistakes were more noticable), and they paid for it
with lower execution scores. My thoughts then were 'this is sort of
unfair, if every line used this snare Phantom would be in a higher
execution position'. Why do I say this? Because I remember other lines,
particularly the Bridgemen, dropping mistakes that went completely by
the judges without so much as a tick. But the same type error made by	
Phantom's snares stood out like a swollen thumb on a cartoon character.
From: byork@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: Madison music
Date: 13 Nov 92 09:45:25 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

In article <1992Nov11.190956.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu>, jgjohn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
> If anyone wants to know this year Madison will have 3 tunes.
> 
> 		Numro uno???
> 		Strawberry soup (they played it in '83)
> 		and an undecided tune at this time
> 
> 
> If anyone knows about the music for other corps please send me e-mail or post
> it. If you plan to be at the brass camp at Madison please e-mail for possible   
> carpool.
> 
> Ps. any Star almni from '90 '91 out there???
                THE SHOW WILL BE:

                  NUMERO UNO ('81 -ISH)
                  STRAWBERRY SOUP ( '82 AND '83 I BELIEVE)
                  REMEMBRANCE ( 1990)
           
        I WAS AT THE SCOUTS BANQUET THIS LAST WEEKEND, ADN THE DIRECTOR
REFERED TO LAST SEVERAL YEARS AS RE-BUILDING YEARS; AND NOW THE CORPS IS
READY TO MAINTAIN ITS HIGH LEVEL.
                            BARRY
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: taylor@news.cis.ohio-state.edu (kurt alan taylor)
Subject: BOA results
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:38:30 GMT

This is my first posting so bare with me.  

I went to both the prelims and the finals of BOA in Indianapolis
this past weekend.  I had never been (my high school band never
had enough money while I was there) so I found it was amazing.
Some of these top twelve bands would give drum corps a good run
for there money.  Anyway, the results as I remember them were:

1st place      Centerville Jazz Band (Centerville, OH)
2nd place      Marion Catholic (somewhere close to Chicago,IL)
3rd place      Plymouth Centennial Educational Park (somewhere in MI)
4th place      Westerville South (Westerville, OH)
5th place      Lake Park (Roselle, IL)
 
and I don't remember the placements of the other top twelve.

If anyone else out there saw the show this weekend then please respond
if you thought Plymouth was ripped off.  I thought they should have won and
Centerville should have been second.  I would have put Marion Catholic about
5th (BORING)!  What about that California band that played one of Garfield's
old shows to the 'T'.  They did a decent job but if you saw Garfield do it
like I did you would've laughed too.

If there are alums out there from Metamora Township H.S. in Illinois then
please post so we can chat.

Kurt Taylor
GO BUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: 9225978@ul.ie
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: drumcorps recruitment
Date: 9 Nov 92 13:24:13 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland

Hi there ,
         I just heard that the recruitment advertisements are out...
   So if anyone could please give some info on this please e-mail me at
   9225978@ul.ie    Personally I feel that some people know where they're 
   going.....CADETS ....
   

    From him that walks alone amongst the masses....


    JUICY,.
From: phelps1230@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Me too!-->Drill Writing Programs???
Date: 11 Nov 92 16:11:26 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Nov10.195233.1@vax1.umkc.edu>, cputnam@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
> 
> I was wondering if anyone out there has any, or knows of any, IBM drill writing
> disk producers?    I have plenty of hard drive space and VGA monitors and
> stuff.  So, any info (price, especially) on who to call or what you have would
> be greatly appreciated.
> Product reviews of what
> program you have or have heard of or whatever would be great, too.
> 
> Thanks!!
> 

Me too! I like the concept of having a general idea of how the movement works
before I stick the drill in front of a group! I would prefer something
good...but money would definitely be a factor.  Please post replies.

> Chris
> '93 Star?????
> Baritone
> Because all other horns are lesser  :)
> 

Thanks!!!

Brooke
'89-'93 Colts
Mellophone
'Cause we're the coolest! ;)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: jgjohn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Madison music
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 23:09:56 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

If anyone wants to know this year Madison will have 3 tunes.

		Numro uno???
		Strawberry soup (they played it in '83)
		and an undecided tune at this time


If anyone knows about the music for other corps please send me e-mail or post
it. If you plan to be at the brass camp at Madison please e-mail for possible   
carpool.

Ps. any Star almni from '90 '91 out there???
From: MHUGHES@MIAMIU.BITNET
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: 1993 POC in Yplisanti?
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:31:36 GMT
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service

Is it true, folks?  I heard that the 1993 Preview of Champions is in
Yplisanti, MI.  Any comments on the stadium/facilities/area?
 
Thanks, Mike Hughes
From: fath@mbcrr.dfci.harvard.edu (Michael Fath)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: A Night in Tunesia
Date: 13 Nov 1992 13:50:34 GMT
Organization: Dana-Farber Cancer Institute
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mbcrr.harvard.edu

Am I mistaken or didn't VK do "A Night in Tunesia" not long ago - I think
it was 1989.

Confirm or deny?

-- 
MM   MM FFFFF 	Michael Fath		fath@mbcrr.harvard.edu
M M M M F	Dept of Microbiology and Molecular Genetics
M  M  M FFF     Harvard Medical School         
M     M F       Boston, MA 02115	*****Clinton/Gore '92*****
From: R.Vincent.Lamb@um.cc.umich.edu
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re:  Trojan Band Busted
Date: 8 Nov 1992 17:53:43 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway

In article <92311.222015ERB107@psuvm.psu.edu>, Elizabeth R. Bain
<ERB107@psuvm.psu.edu> wrote (Re: Trojan Band busted):
 
>Interesting news. I had heard that recently a fraternity songbook was
|>"confiscated" or whatever at some university, but if I remember correctly
|>the major charge on that particular book was that it advocated gang rape.
|>(It was a Phi Psi book, for anyone out there who might have heard of it.)
|>Somehow, that seems a bit more objectionable than advocating drinking to
>excess, which is going to happen on almost any college campus anyway.
 
That was at UCLA.  It "lightheartedly" mentioned group statuatory 
rape of minorities.  The student government and adminstration was
*not* amused!
 
|>PC.  Hmph.
 
My sentiments exactly.
 
Vince
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu (Robert W Berry)
Subject: Re: St.Angel and the Bird
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 05:17:49 GMT

bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu (HALLS BRADLEY F) writes:

>I am sorry to hear this. I thought that maybe things had changed at
>Phantom since I marched there, but it is obvious that they are still
>brainwashing the kids with the "We got screwed again" bullshit. I
>would never, ever recommend to a kid to march there.

There are *so* many reasons not to march Phantom, though.  1/2 ;-).

I have *always* hated their run-it-until-we-get-it philosophy.  It's
better now (or at least the last time I saw them rehearse which was in
1990) but it's still there.

Back in the '70's the kids from Phantom were always bitching that they
rehearsed so hard when BD had time for days off and such.  But the staff
at BD had an incredible way of cleaning their show in that they would
identify the cause of the problem, and not address the symptoms.   (Which
was what Phantom did at the time.)

Then the kids who marched in Phantom grew up and started teaching other
kids the same way.  But generally, IMHO, it doesn't take long for the
teacher or the students to burn out in an environment like that.

(All of this is not meant to offend you, Brad.  These are just personal
observations that I had while marching against Phantom night after
night.)

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=- Bob Berry -=- Net-Guru's Inc.        ! rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu   -=-
-=- Teach them quick, before they think. ! 803-654-7623 || 803-656-1076 -=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: fath@mbcrr.dfci.harvard.edu (Michael Fath)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: TX Bands 3A/5A results
Date: 10 Nov 1992 15:44:42 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation
NNTP-Posting-Host: mbcrr.harvard.edu

>
>
>Does anyone have MBA finals results, or the Oklahoma O.B.A. 4A/5A results??
>E-mail or post. Please don't flame for the MB talk--the season is over 
>anyway. thanks.
>
>chris
>
I second the request for BOA info!!  Maybe I'll have to call 1-900-CAN-DRUM
tonight to get it if no one posts it soon.

And I agree, no flames for band postings allowed....
We're all friends here.



-- 
--------
Test signature from mbcrr account - M. Fath

Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu (HALLS BRADLEY F)
Subject: Re: Snares on top, pipebands (was Re: Snare Technology)
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 01:40:06 GMT

In article <BxLyuK.9Mn@apollo.hp.com> afo@apollo.HP.COM (Aaron Oppenheimer) writes:

>The Premier pipe-band drums I played in college had snares on the top
>and bottom heads.
>
>Anyone else ever play in a pipe-band? If you can stand the sound of
>bagpipes, it's a lot of fun - the style is very different from what
>corps here play. Everything is crushed, the rhythms are strange, the
>sticks are weighted differently, etc.

Never played in one, but I have seen some good ones. Every year their
is a big scottish highland festival not far from here in Canada. They
have these great pipe band shows, and the pipers and drummers even
compete in individuals. It's great. I have also seen a (famous?) one
from Scotland that toured with her majesty's royal high and mighty
Coldstream guards (or something like that) from England. Maybe they
were called the Black Watch?...can't seem to remember, but I remember
that they could RAM, and it was pretty cool. Are you in a pipe band
now, Aaron?

--Brad.



-- 
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
Brad Halls                                "Still looking for witty quote."
Oakland University                         -me    
Rochester, Michigan
bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu

^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
From: 9225978@ul.ie
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: DRUM CORPS IRELAND
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:14:08 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland

Hi there everyone this is me ,
 .....(what no applause???...)...


....I just decided to tell you's all that we <the members>decided to announce
the arrival of the BLUE DEMONS on the scene of world drumcorps....

My name is Juicy and I play contra-bass ....What's yours??????...

I'm still looking for yhe address of the CADETS so if anyone out there
knows this or are involved in the cadets please let me know..<this folder
will do as a means of communication>

I'm a new mailer in this folder so I'd like to say hi to ye all......

JUICY.
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Drill Writing Programs???
From: cputnam@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 01:52:33 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City


I was wondering if anyone out there has any, or knows of any, IBM drill writing
disk producers?  I have an apple program, but I don't know of any IBM
compatible stuff.  I have plenty of hard drive space and VGA monitors and
stuff.  So, any info (price, especially) on who to call or what you have would
be greatly appreciated.

Please respond through email or post a reply here.  Product reviews of what
program you have or have heard of of or whatever would be great, too.

Thanks!!

Chris
'93 Star?????
Baritone
Because all other horns are lesser  :)
From: jwise@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jeff Wise)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: current scuttlebutt
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:39:35 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University


   Allright, I just got connected to this seemingly plethora of drum corps 
info,excellent! Especially for newly inducted age out (yeah life sucks).
Me, I marched Bluecoats '86 and 88 thru 92, in the horn line. And yes I can
take any criticism (especially about not marching 87) or any good news.  I've
been corrupted by the activity, and for those of you praising DCW, PLEASE!
Maybe it's time you crawled out from under that rock!
   Anyhow, current news says there is no, repeat no DCM all-star trip this 
year, seems Jim Mason and Star have a lot, a whole lot of things going on.
I'm told to watch out for a new circuit, drum corps south, and that Star wants
to be a founding member! And Star's show is to incorporate Barber's Adagio for
Strings to a highly unconventional drill (as is few, if any drill sets).
   As for the BLuecoats, well I figure most of you don't know the inside story 
as to last years extremely succesful season (yes you read that correctly). This
year the story goes: plans for Gillespie's Night in Tunisia and Manteca plus 
some other be-bop stuff.  Arranger Bruce Mc Connell is reportedly heavy into 
the late great Miles Davis.
     And SCV now has three former judges on their staff (brass dudes Bill 
Doyle, Paul Rubino and the head o' judges Jay Kennedy) Reportedly they'd like 
to get Ralph Hardimon back from Blue Knights, and Phantom wants him badly too.
     Of course when the name Hardimon puts BK's drumline 4th ahead of Crossmen,
then you know there's political clout in DCI.
     I gotta run, it's late, please any other nuts out there respond, Ohio 
State doesn't exactly contain the hotbed of drum corps activity.