HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Telemark skis
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 19:03:20 GMT

eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu writes:
>>As one of those skiers who has been skiing since birth
>
>Chris!  You must have been cute in your suit!  Powder Blue of course?

Of course.

>Come on!

Ok, my mother started me when I was 2 and I was skiing SilverQueen
and the ElevatorShaft by the time I was 4......'course I didn't go
back 'til I was 10.

>Weren't you the person swathed in blankets with the two big
>Nordic guys (King of Norway) fleeing, the two guys had helmets (!),
>metal breast places, stout poles in the painting?.
>Honored for your presence your excellency! 8^)

Sounds impresive, I'll take credit.

>[........]
>
>The truth is that Wayne and I would like to get you to break trail.
>Mush!

No problem, I already break for everyone else. ;^)

--Chris
From: ssh@snow.boulder.ibm.com (Steve Hultquist (347-3994))
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: "Ski Mountaineering" (?) advice wanted.
Date: 12 Oct 92 09:38:47 GMT
Organization: ISSC Boulder

Hey, Chris!  I've been thinking about using some of the new, lightweight
snowshoes to hike up, then switch to skis to come down.  Any thoughts?
--
Steve Hultquist                          Open systems and networking specialist
I think, therefore I ski...                                        ISSC Boulder
From: carlson@raman.ECE.CMU.EDU (Daniel W Carlson)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Ski Cards, how useful???
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:39:52 GMT
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon

I've noticed the Ski Cards from different groups that allow people to buy
cheap tickets around the country. What do you think of these. I'm going
off to Summit County this New Year's and I doubt the discount works then.
How about Jackson Hole? Can you get discounts for there?

I think only ~$8 is a decent price for a ticket. How many of you use these?


Danny

PS. I bought tickets at a Safeway in Denver last year, cheaper than Ski
the Summit package.
From: sommer@scd.hp.com (Jeremy Sommer)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Telemark skis
Date: 16 Oct 1992 22:35:48 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard Santa Clara Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpscau.scd.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Mark Rosenberg (mr@delfin.com) wrote:
..
: tele technique is cleaner and more effective with the Snowfields. Ankle flex
: is key to good turns of whatever kind on any kind of skis. When you wear
: macho tele boots like Super Comps or Extreme Pros, the height and stiffness
: of them hinders your ability to flex your ankles.

I've noticed this too.  I have used both my Extreme Pros and Merrell Ultras on
the lifts, and I find that the Extreme Pros actually prevent me (in many cases)
from flexing my ankles correctly.  Not to mention that the old toe-creases in
them destroy the tops of my feet by the end of the day...

..
: get it to carve. The strongest tele positions maximize foot contact on
: both skis. In addition to keeping the heel down on the lead ski, you
: want as much of the foot down on the trailing ski as well.
: 
: If you experiment with these ideas without any boots on, you discover
: that with maximal ankle flex, you can assume a strong tele position
: with a gap of a couple of inches between your front heel and rear toe,
: a comfortable amount of knee bend, and *both* heels down.
: Given the moderate knee bend and ski separation, this position would seem
: to be great for situations where you want quick lead changes.
..
: I'd like to hear from other expert tele skiers on the net about
: whether they agree that this is an effective position. Also, it seems
: to me that if the sole of the boot is torsionally rigid, the
: biomechanics of a fully flexed ankle can effectively substitute for
: high, stiff boots.

Gee, you mean if I answer this I'm an expert?
I agree that in many situations, it is more effective to drop into a "partial"
telemark position than a "full" one.  I find that I can derive a tremendous
amount of stability in the telemark position if I press the front inside of the
trailing knee against the rear inside of the leading knee, thereby creating a
small strong triangular region with my lower legs.  This is most useful on
medium- to long-radius turns, because in this position the angle between skis
is limited.  I'm not so sure about the angle of the trailing foot;  all I can
say is I know I've done it both ways (big angle and no angle).

Biomechanics of a fully flexed ankle:  rotating about a vertical axis is more
constrained, but rotating about a fore-and-aft axis is not (at least on mine).

More reasons a "partial" telemark position is good:  it allows you to
unweight one or both skis more rapidly if you need to.  And it can be less
tiring with a heavy pack on (less up and down).  Both important in the
backcountry.

-Jeremy Sommer
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: rwaters@spdg.com (Rolland Waters)
Subject: Eugene Makes a Technical Mistake! (Re: MAN MADE SNOW)
Organization: Stratos Product Development Group (Seattle)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 17:14:20 GMT

...Film at 11   :-)

In article <> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
> Snow condenses (technically subliminates) onto nuclei which are 1/10 the
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> size of nuclei rain condenses upon.  You can't just throw water into the air
> and expect it to freeze into snow...

No, Eugene!  Sublimation is going from a solid to a vapor without
passing through the liquid state.  Can gases even be made to go
directly to a solid from a vapor?  Besides, snow has a crystalline
form anyway, which is why it needs a condensation nucleus, right?
Isn't this more fun than posting answers to queries about whether
Vail will have snow over Thanksgiving?


Rolland

(Actually, there is a definition of sublimation: "to convert
(something inferior) to something of higher worth", which technically
you could say snow making was.)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: sokay@cyclone.mitre.org (Stephen J. Okay)
Subject: Re: Skier classification
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 13:28:06 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.220155.7184@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> lillie@anchor.comm.mot.com writes:
>In article <1992Oct8.145611.506@apex.com>, marshab@apex.com (Marsha Bates) writes:
>|>Newsgroups: rec.skiing
>|>From: marshab@apex.com (Marsha Bates)
>|>Subject: Re: Skier classification
>|>
>|>In article <BvpyC9.LvE@mail.boi.hp.com> kde@boi.hp.com (Keith Emmen) writes:
>|>>   A friendly suggestion.  On his first day, make sure the weather is good,
>|>>and don't try to push him to hard.  Be *very* supportive, and don't critize
>|>>much.  Words like "That's great!, but try this next" work well.  
>|>>Make sure his boots don't hurt his feet. 
>|>>Good luck!
>|>>Keith
>|>
>|>A better suggestion.  Don't take him yourself the first time.  Have
>|>him take a lesson or make him go with a friend of yours that skiis 
>|>well. 
>|>
>
>Absolutely!  Having taken many trips with 1st time beginners along, I couldn't
>agree more.  Put your boyfriend in GROUP lessons for the first several days.
>This will expose him to a (hopefully) good instructor, put him together with
>other people in the same boat, and, in general, make his first ski trip a much
>more pleasant experience.

I hate to be a "me-too" poster, but I *HAVE* to agree here.
I managed to cajole a friend who'd never been skiing before into going to
Winter Park with me last March. We got to the slopes bright and early
the first morning and I promptly dumped him in the beginner's cattle crush
and headed off to Mary Jane myself.
After 3 days of this we were able to cruise down some of the greens and even
tried a couple blues. By the last day, he was able to keep up at a reasonable
distance with me on the blues. We had a really cool time. I wasn't always waiting 
for him to pick himself up, and he didn't feel totally out of his element, 
stranded at the top of a killer mountain.

>Do him a favor.  Have him take lessons!!  Don't let him convince you that he
>doesn't need to take any lessons (male ego, perhaps?).  This way, he'll want
>to go skiing again :-)

Yes!!!
Contrast my above story to a couple years ago at a local slope when my then-SO and I 
went up for a day ski. I figured "I've been going for about 5 years, I can
teach her". Ha! It was a major disaster and she ended up giving up after
a couple frustrating hours and turning in her skis 'cause the skill that
I had I just couldn't seem to transfer to her and it just ended up being 
a big mess. I think I could have gotten her out again if hubris hadn't ruined
our first outing...

---Steve
-- 
Stephen Okay  sokay@mitre.org
"You see, I'm kind of this control freak who likes to create his own
personal hells before the real one can get to him. I like to beat hell
to hell so to speak".--Spalding Gray "Monster in a box"
From: crane@coral.bucknell.edu (The Whooping Crane)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Make offer on Ski Boots... please!
Date: 14 Oct 1992 21:37:49 -0400
Organization: Bucknell University, Lewisburg, PA, USA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: coral.bucknell.edu


I have a pair of Salomon SX71 ski boots for sale.
They are grey and fit size 11 to 11.5 foot.
I only used them 3 times and they are in great shape.
I would like around $100 for them.
Or feel free to make an offer!!

I also have a pair of size 11-11.5 Raichle Flexon Comps.
These boots are black and yellow.  they are in good condition.
I would like around $100 for them also but feel
free to make an offer.

Please reply to:  crane@coral.bucknell.edu

Thanks,

Curt
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
       -- Curt Crane Was here
From: glenb@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Glen Baker)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:02:25 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Crosscountry/Backcountry skiing [LONG]
Organization: What, me? Organized?
Newsgroups: rec.skiing

In rec.skiing, ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes:

>  Hey, I left the cutesy stuff that Glen had in there already, and just
>  added some technical information.  

 Go ahead and remove the "cutesy" stuff...that was a (successful) attempt
 to goad the XC community into providing some input to the FAQ!

 ..glen 
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: bob@cadnetix.COM (Bob Hamel)
Subject: Re: Skier classification
Reply-To: bob@dazix.COM (Bob Hamel)
Organization: Daisy/Cadnetix Corp.,  Boulder, CO
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 22:28:28 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.090910@is.morgan.com> sergei@is.morgan.com (Sergei Poliakoff) writes:
>
>50% of enrollment in first-time-never-ever  ski lesson groups are usually 
>people whose level  of physical fitness is close to zero.  Activities
>are usually centered about their attempts to get up after a fall, which
>takes about 5-10 minutes on each occasion and happens every minute.

A good instructor will help the helpless get up. Besides, many ski schools
try to separate aggressive and timid people in beginner's classes. We do that
at Breckenridge if it's not too busy.

>Use good judgement when  persuading someone to take
>such a lesson : it is depressing, discouraging, time-wasting and useless
>for someone who can walk the streets unassisted.

It's more depressing and discouraging for the so-called athlete to be taken up
an 'easy' slope before he/she is ready! It's also more time-wasting for the
'expert' friend who gets to spend his/her day screaming "STOP" or "TURN" while
following a human missile down the slope.

>Usually, a learning slope (like Snowshed in Killington) with a 
>detachable quad (or just a slow lift) is enough to get a person who
>can squat 20 times without collapsing started. Second day he/she can
>join the group according to actual ability .   

The biggest mistake friends make when teaching friends is mis-judging terrain.
Snowshed is not a good learning slope for a first timer until he/she can at
least stop.

>Further down the line  it again becomes apparent that teaching methods
>and suggested technique  assume  general physical UNfitness of the
>clientele.

How's that? Yeah. I guess we don't teach people to ski bent over at the waist
and to turn by throwing their skis side to side like they're 2X4's.

>The bottom line is : if your friend/wife/uncle are somewhat above 
>general unfitness level you either have to teach them yourself,
>or pay for private instruction.

The bottom line is:

Friends shouldn't teach friends to ski unless they are qualified!

If you want lots of individual attention, have a very specific skill you want
to work on, and/or have the money, take a private lesson.

If you want general feedback, are just trying to get better at skiing, and/or
want to have fun with some interesting people, try a group lesson. If it
doesn't work out for some reason, most ski areas will refund your lesson cost.
The customer is always right!

Think snow!

Bob Hamel

Bob Hamel     / Dazix-Intergraph / 5101 Spine Rd. / Boulder, CO. 80301
bob@sunbox.dazixco.ingr.com / Hey Now! /
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Man made snow (SUCKS)
Date: 9 Oct 92 18:01:43 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

A decent post by 
>>Dave Harsant,

In article <1992Oct9.025404.17315@news.cs.brandeis.edu>
TODD st910131@pip.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>The character may change a shitload, but it is still water... not just 5-15%
>but damn near 100%....SURE it may be more or less dense (Like some people who
>post on this group) but no matter how many skiers pack it down, it just gets
>to be a denser form of water.... and on the same principle, no matter how

I'll let some one else berate, but....
Water maybe 100% water.  Ice maybe 100% water
But snow is mostly air.  Any book on snow, on hydrology, or weather
will tell you this.  Dave basically got it right.

Must be one of the less dense readers.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			Imhof, Cartographic Relief Presentation
			Books on or by Benjamin Whorf
From: crane@coral.bucknell.edu (The Whooping Crane)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Please buy my ski boots!
Date: 16 Oct 1992 11:14:44 -0400
Organization: Bucknell University, Lewisburg, PA, USA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: coral.bucknell.edu


I have a pair of Salomon SX71 ski boots for sale.
They are grey and fit size 11 to 11.5 foot.
I only used them 3 times and they are in great shape.
I would like around $100 for them.
Or feel free to make an offer!!

I also have a pair of size 11-11.5 Raichle Flexon Comps.
These boots are black and yellow.  they are in good condition.
I would like around $100 for them also but feel
free to make an offer.

Please reply to:  crane@coral.bucknell.edu

Thanks,

Curt
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
       -- Curt Crane Was here
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: 002173s@ace.acadiau.ca (JENNIFER LYNNE SHYNAL)
Subject: tuning
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 00:15:20 GMT

I tune skiies for $15.00.  My name is Jen Shynal and I have raced and 
coached for Martock. I'll hand file and wax your skiies in my basement, and 
I do a damn good job!! Either give me a call once the snow comes or write 
me.  
Jen Shynal 542-9421 
or write:  002173s@ace.acadiau.ca.
From: william@castle.ed.ac.uk (William Warburton)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: "Ski Mountaineering" (?) advice wanted.
Date: 12 Oct 92 09:43:13 GMT
Reply-To: W.Warburton@ed.ac.uk
Organization: Edinburgh University Computing Service

Hi,
	I am looking for advice on what I think is usually termed
Ski mountaineering. I have been downhill skiing for a while and have
done quite a lot of hillwalking, usually in Spring or Autumn.

 What I would like to know is how much I need to learn & what equipment
would be necessary to combine walking & skiing in winter. Essentially
I am considering climbing Scottish mountains & skiing back down them
but I do not know how ambitious this is, or how to find out.

 Most of the information I have come across seems to refer either to
winter mountaineering (walk up & down, Crampons, Ice-axe etc. required)
or X-C skiing (ski along the valleys rather than up & down the hills).

 Is this because what I am contemplating is very ambitious and only
undertaken by experienced winter mountaineers or is it just that there
arn't many people who are inclined to mix climbing up with skiing down?

 Re. equipment: It seems to me (from the X-C FAQ) that I need Randonee
		bindings on appropriate skis, probably with skins for
		climbing. Boots need to be appropriate for walking and
		for skiing (?) does this mean carrying both? Is it
		possible to get a boot that will do both jobs well?

 Thanks for any info,

		W.

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: harsant@headplant.trl.OZ.AU (Dave Harsant)
Subject: Re: What, Raichele SWEDISH? (Re: Boots recommendations wanted)
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne Australia
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 01:18:32 GMT

In article <Oct07.182136.60503@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> johnc@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (John Cooley) writes:
>In article <BvpEIH.6uB@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> 
>           mkoechli@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Marco Koechli) writes:
>
>> (many people confuse Switzerland with
>>Sweden) 
>
>I hate it when that happens.  These Americans have such a poor grasp of
>geography!  But if you keep all your skiing funds in one of those numbered

Hey, the first time I skiid in the US, way back in '83, people would
ask where I was from, and I'd say Australia.  A few times, people
thought I said "Espagnol", despite no trace of Spanish accent in our
previous conversation.  Others would start talking about Europe,
thinking of Austria.  Some were amazed to find it was summer down here
while it was winter over there (I pointed out it was 42deg C when I'd
left home).

I remember being in the Little Red Ski Haus in Aspen, going out with a
group of people including a Swede, three Australians, a Scot with a
thick accent, and an Englishman.  A few of the Americans we met
couldn't pick our accents apart.  I guess it's because you don't see
much non-US TV over there.

By the way, our season has just about finished here.  It's been raining
since Sunday, most mountains have closed, I've hung up my boots for
now.  Mt. Buller is still open, but the snow was fairly lousy on Sunday
- very soft and very wet, it doesn't freeze overnight at this time of
year.  No rocks.  I'm considering coming over to CO or Utah in Feb, if
I can find something not too expensive.

--
Dave Harsant,
Telecom Australia Research Laboratories  |  d.harsant@trl.oz.au
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: sergei@is.morgan.com (Sergei Poliakoff)
Subject: Re: Skier classification
Organization: Morgan Stanley - IS
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 13:09:10 GMT

|> agree more.  Put your boyfriend in GROUP lessons for the first several days.
|> This will expose him to a (hopefully) good instructor, put him together with
|> other people in the same boat, and, in general, make his first ski trip a much


50% of enrollment in first-time-never-ever  ski lesson groups are usually 
people whose level  of physical fitness is close to zero.  Activities
are usually centered about their attempts to get up after a fall, which
takes about 5-10 minutes on each occasion and happens every minute.
Use good judgement when  persuading someone to take
such a lesson : it is depressing, discouraging, time-wasting and useless
for someone who can walk the streets unassisted.

Usually, a learning slope (like Snowshed in Killington) with a 
detachable quad (or just a slow lift) is enough to get a person who
can squat 20 times without collapsing started. Second day he/she can
join the group according to actual ability .   

Further down the line  it again becomes apparent that teaching methods
and suggested technique  assume  general physical UNfitness of the
clientele.

The bottom line is : if your friend/wife/uncle are somewhat above 
general unfitness level you either have to teach them yourself,
or pay for private instruction.


Sergei
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Where to go in France...
From: hugh@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Hugh Grierson)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 20:30:55 GMT
Organization: Fujitsu New Zealand

In article <1992Oct12.145238.8907@bristol.ac.uk> P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
>Places that have come to mind so far are the Porte Du Soliel (Avoriaz,
>Morzine, Les Gets), and Chamonix.  Anyone have any nice/nasty useful
>comments about either of those?  Or any other suggestions/comments?

>Recognised (i.e. findable and mapped, but not pisted) 'itineraire'
>routes a plus.

Chamonix (esp Les Grands Montets, out of Argentiere) is my pick, particularly
if you like off-piste skiing.  Not being one of those purpose-built monsters
like Val Thorens etc is a plus (IMHO), despite the fact that the ski areas
don't connect.  Many good pubs in town.

Maybe take a look at La Clusaz also - nice village, fewer people, good skiing.

-- 
Hugh Grierson          Fujitsu/ICL New Zealand - Software Development Centre
hugh@nezsdc.icl.co.nz                Speaking for myself only.  See figure 1.
    Quote of the decade: "We're not just talking about unpopulated areas
     of the Southern Hemisphere anymore" [Pres. Bush, on the Ozone hole]
From: jefftb@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Jeff Brown)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:48:55 GMT
Subject: Re: Ski Season Tire Info Wanted
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD MWTD)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing

   I too have a Mazda 626 and I bought some Michelen MXL(I think) they are a fin   tire, but not a snow tire. I had to order the M&S one and it came looking
   exactly the same.(?!) The tire has very little void area. It works well for 
   every thing but snow. The M&S rateing gets you trough tthe chain controls
   but it can be dicy. If I were to do it again I would opt for a second set
   of rims w/ REAL snow tires on them, not all seasons.

   Just my $0.02
   Jeff Brow

Newsgroups: rec.skiing