HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hanss@microsoft.com (Hans Spiller)
Subject: Re: F1: some Belgian questions
Date: 01 Sep 92 06:09:17 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Summary: all season tires

In article <Aug31.171156.23477@engr.washington.edu>, eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:
> 
> I've got an additional question:
> 
> Has anybody considered making an "all-season" tire for these cars?
> One which has some water dissipating treads but can be driven flat out
> in the dry with only slightly less grip than a pure slick.  This may
> sound somewhat ridiculous, but then consider the number of pit stops
> these guys took and the number of laps they drove with the wrong tire
> on.  i.e.  Senna and Mansell.

last year at the 12 Hours of Sebring, it rained on and off for part of
the race, much as it did in Belgium yesterday.  Several of the teams had
modified ordinary slicks by hand cutting water dispersing treads in them,
to just the end you suggest.  ESPN's coverage didn't explain how effective
these were and I've never seen mention of them again, but it sure seems
like a good idea to me.   Obviously it would be better if Goodyear or
whoever did the surgury themselves...


I think ESPN/Ohlmeyer's coverage was vastly improved for Hungary and Belgium.
not all better for sure, but it seems clear they're listening to us.  Way to
go, folks!  (I do have some bad things to say about covering a golf game
*during* the indy car race though...)

				-Hans
				hanss@microsoft.com
From: jmb3+@andrew.cmu.edu (Juan Jose Mata)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1: No Williams for Senna in 93
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:43:11 GMT
	<1992Aug30.131955.11535@dscomsf.desy.de>
Organization: Sophomore, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

> If he hadn't crashed to steal the Championship title Prost might have had a
>          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> higher opinion of him. As it is Senna has made his bed and must lie in it.


Senna only did what Prost had done to him the year before under the same
circumstances. Only he was a little less cynical and agreed on doing so
... 
If in the year's before Suzuka chicane incident you just take Senna's
McLaren out of the road we can clearly see how Prost would have put his
right hand fron wheel out of the track, something a race driver is very
unlikely to do when taking a turn ...

Sorry if I bring up some flame that you guys discussed long ago!

Hope Senna has the courage to get into Benetton's barnard design and
with the help of the upcoming Ford V12 gives us more F1 races to
cherish. I beleive it would be childish of him to quit if he doesn't
have the best car ... (that beign the only reason it would be very
unpopular to me), but iof he just wants to play around with the F1 world
and his fans he might loose some of them (and I am one of the big ones).

Just my cent worth!

		- J.J.


#################################################
#     Juan Jose Mata <jmb3+@Andrew.CMU.EDU>     # 
#     Carnegie Mellon University - Freshman     # 
#     Electrical and Computer Engineering       # 
#-----------------------------------------------# 
#     Go L.A. Dodgers !   Go L.A. Kings !       # 
#     Go L.A. Lakers !    Go S. F. 49ers !      #  
#               ! Hala Madrid !                 # 
#################################################

"How terrible is wisdom when it brings no profit to the wise, Johnny."
				-Louis Cyphre (Lucifer)
				 (Robert DeNiro in Alan Parker's Angel Heart)
From: glenn@misty.boeing.com (Glenn Cirlincione)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: UK vs. USA Fabricators
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:07:40 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane BCS Support

Just a reminder that McLaren did us a US company named Hercules to fabricate
their carbon fibre tubs in the late 80's.

Glenn
From: fleck@acsu.buffalo.edu (richard j fleck)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Rahal's comments
Date: 1 Sep 92 03:23:39 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

Rahal's comments as reported in our local rag were mainly to
this effect. It was early in the race and conserving fuel
was the major effort.  Rahal said he was trying to save his car until
after the first fuel stop. Which would have been the proper time
to do some agressive driving after seein how things sorted out.

Maybe his comments to the camera weren't the kind we 
were are used to hearing from him but they did ring true.

With limited fuel indy car racing cannot always be pure agression, it 
also requires tactics and a cool head.  I would give Rahal
the upper hand in that department over Johanson.

just my 0.02
Rich Fleck
From: rons@soul.tv.tek.com (Ron Selberg)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: IMSA WEIGHTS
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:25:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix TV Products
Originator: rons@soul.tv.tek.com

I love IMSA. It's the race of the year for me here in Portland. A true
chance to see tha absolute latest in technology from TRUE car manufacturers.
But the race is always a snooze. Because IMSA can't get the weight vs. 
displacement vs. engine type correct. How do you compare the horsepower of a 
two valve stock block with that of a 4 valve F1 engine to that of a turboed
2 Litre. I will guarantee you that the manufacturers of these engines aren't
talking. Neither are the teams. And if the teams are doing thier homework
during the season, they've got more power at the end of the year than they
started with.
So what's a mother (I mean IMSA) to do?
Indy cars handle the turbo situation with a wastegate.
F1 handled the turbo problem by banning them.
Two valve vs. four valve shouldn't be too tough to figure.
And then there are those Mazdas. Who knows how they figure in!

Looks like the whole IMSA formula is VERY tough to get right. And as soon 
as they get it close, some team finds some more power.
I'd really hate to see it fall apart, but I agree that it appears to be in
trouble.

Anybody out there got any thoughts on how IMSA can get somewhere near close
racing again?

RON
From: rbt@dracut.keps.kodak.com (Bob Tufts)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Generic Racing Tidbits
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:57:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: dracut.1992Sep2.165731.4576
Organization: Kodak Electronic Printing Systems
Originator: rbt@dracut

In article <1992Sep1.180049.22987@ncube.com> bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:
> 
> 2.  NASCAR:
> - Sunoco will drop its sponsorship of the Billy Hagan team
> at the end of the season (Terry Labonte).  There have been
> rumors that negotiations are underway for Sunoco to become
> the official gas of NASCAR, replacing Unocal.  The Hagan 

Say it isn't so! What will happen to the "hat-man"? You know, the
guy who kinda looks like Kenny Rogers that changes the hats for
the winner in Victory Circle. It's my understanding he's a Unocal 
person. (Please tell me that this guy did something besides change hats :-)

-Bob T.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: lang@wharfin.mit.edu
Subject: Re: David Letterman's top 10
Organization: Massachvsetts Institvte of Technology
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:57:13 GMT

> 
> Top ten enjoyable things about EPSN's Formula One coverage
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------

> 9. Just crazy about new pit lane reporter, Robin Leach.

I thought it was also hilarious when Andrew Marriot finished one of the
pit reports with "This Robin Leach back to you Bob."

Apparently the guys from ESPN had to explain to Andrew just _who_ Robin
Leach was.

Now back to real racing stuff...

Bob Lang
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 13:59:06 -0400 
From: Dino_P._Chiesa@transarc.com
Subject: Belgium spoilers: sandbagging?


Just to stir up some dust...

What are the chances that Mansell was sandbagging after the second
tire change, when Schu was leading?  The story on Nige was that his
engine was off.  Wouldn't that have been only the second time this
year that a Williams-Renault experienced engine trouble in a race?
And why didn't Patrese, et al, catch him if this were the case?

How plausible is it that Mansell took it easy, cruised to 2nd,
allowing Schu to go on to win unchallenged? 

----------

And another thing:

I thought it would be most interesting to see Schumacher on the podium
after this, his first win ever, as Germany's anthem was played.  But
ESPN cut out just as it was beginning, and just as Schu looked like he
would burst with pride.

-dpc
From: slana@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (charles.e.slana)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: CART - Highest Attrition?
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:47:51 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Sep4.162817.24048@ncube.com>, bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:
> In article <johnl.0744@amiganet.chi.il.us> johnl@amiganet.chi.il.us (John Liskey) writes:
> >Anyone know off the top of their head what the 2 or 3 highest attrition races
> >have been in CART history?
> >
> From the info I've got, it would take me awhiles to work backwards in
> order to figure this out.  The CART Media Guide doesn't have a special
> listing for attrition, per se.

I'd be willing to bet that these two are among the tops in recent history
(hint to anybody with a media guide: look these up):

	- The Road America race that Hector Rebacque won ('82, I believe?)
		where all of the leaders broke down or ran out of gas

	- The last (or the 2nd to last) "California 500" that was held
		on the Riverside road course.  This race was 500 km
		(~311 miles) of torture in the heat, and one of the last
		two times it was run, there were only about 6-7 cars 
		on the track at the finish.  Probably in the '81-'83
		time range..

That's the best I can come up with.  Does anybody know Donald Davidson's
number???

A few of the early Michigan 500s had very high attrition, but I don't
think any had less than 10 cars running.  '85(?) had probably more destroyed
cars than any race I've seen (except perhaps this year Indy)..

Chuck Slana
AT&T Bell Labs
Naperville, IL
email: ..!att!ihlpm!slana
   or  slana@ihlpm.att.com
From: james@Bridge.COM (James Montebello)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Indy Vancouver <spoilers!>
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:56:45 GMT
Organization: Bridge Information Systems

In article <1992Aug30.235757.3222@cabot.balltown.cma.COM> welty@balltown.cma.com (richard welty) writes:
>this race looked more like the `world wrestling federation' than
>a genteel open wheel race.  contact, serious hard contact, and plenty of
>it.
>
>people were not watching their mirrors, experienced pros like emerson
>fittapaldi, even.

Actually, everyone thought this was actually an F3 race. Emmo and
Cheever out of nostalgia for those days. Al Jr and Mikey 'cause their
beginning to think that's the closest they'll ever get to F1. Of
course, Mario, right-thinking man that he is, knew this was an IndyCar
race, and drove normally. Rahal? Oh, he's practicing to be a proper
World Champion. Rumor has it Frank Williams was quite impressed by that
post-race interview and is going to slide him right into Mansell's
spot.  ;-)
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
james montebello (james@bridge.com)         'my employer has no opinions'		
It's the good girls who keep the diaries; the bad girls never have the time.
	- Tallulah Bankhead
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Re: IMSA (Jaguar)
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:50:10 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.152329.19909@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov> cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (David Cornutt) writes:
>Agreed -- they have screwed this up in a major way.  IMSA needs to go
>back and re-think the whole concept of GTP.  Or else, pretty soon it
>won't be possible to have an IMSA Pick-6 because there won't be
>six cars in the field!
>
We'll make room for them (the 4-5 GTPs) in the Firehawk Endurance
events.  Call 'em.....well.....SSSM (Showroom Stock Slightly Modified).
From: svissa@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Sirish Vissa)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Polish VW Joke
Date: 30 Aug 92 05:48:10 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <issa.715118316@cwis> issa@cwis.unomaha.edu (Issa El-Hazin) writes:
>
>
>>A man was sentenced to 4 years in Poland because he was caught
>>smuggling an engine in the rear trunk of his VW Bug.
>
I may be the only one that found this to be in bad taste, but I still dont 
think this belongs in r.a.s.
      hope the poster reads this.
                      Sirish

-- 
| Sirish 'RACE OR DIE' Vissa                       |--\__            _____  |
| Gen II  Motorsports, India              /-------|     \---\       /  27 | |
| svissa@mentor.cc.purdue.edu        /--\/__/-----------------\_ /--\\----/ |
| sirish@mn.ecn.purdue.edu       _/_|_()_|__|##|_FERRARI______|:|_()_|      |
From: salil@igor.tamri.com (Salil Saxena)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1: some Belgian questions
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:00:21 GMT
Organization: Toshiba America MRI Inc, S. San Francisco, CA.

In article <"31-Aug-92.10:50:12.EDT".*.MJackson.Wbst147@Xerox.com> MJackson.Wbst147@xerox.com writes:
>Received: by yngvi.wbst147 (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA16198; Mon, 31 Aug 92 10:50:58
>EDT
>Organization: Xerox Corporation, Webster NY
>
	stuff deleted .....
>
>4) Speaking of regulations, it appears that the silly "stop a dry race to
>declare it wet" rule has been changed.  When did this happen, and what is the
>new rule?
>
>Mark <MJackson.Wbst147@Xerox.COM>

I don't know if the regulations have changed.  It is very possible that the
race was called a "wet race", but nobody decided to start on slicks.  ESPN 
didn't elaborate on this point.

-- 
Salil Saxena		Gotta love those British Roadsters - '91 Lotus Elan SE
Toshiba America MRI, Inc.		Internet: salil@igor.tamri.com	
South San Francisco, CA  94080		Phone: (415) 872-2722 x2283
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Opionions expressed are mine and only mine <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
From: dreining@gmuvax.gmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Marlboro Challenge Question
Date: 2 Sep 92 11:59:03 -0500
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, VA.


           Roberto Guerrero has qualified for the Marlboro
           Challenge because of his pole at Indy. Does
           anyone know who will provide him with a ride 
           for this race? 

           DAVE     dreining@gmuvax.gmu.edu
From: wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (David Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1: trivia time again
Date: 24 Aug 92 14:28:07 GMT
Organization: Schlumberger CAD/CAM; Ann Arbor, Michigan (USA)

In article <1992Aug20.215044.15839@news.clarkson.edu> taylor@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Ross Taylor,Peyt312,6652,2655436) writes:
>
>Has the F1 drivers championship been decided this early in the
>season ever before?
>
I would have to hit the books to calculate according to ratio of races
run over total races in the season, but Autoweek's article on Hungary
mentioned that Jimmy Clark put one of his championships away in the
month of August.  Nigel is the second to do that.

Of course, going by calendar months won't give a consistent comparison
between different years.  We had an era when the South African GP
started the season off in January, as an extreme example.  In fact,
Jimmy Clark's last victory was at Kyalami in January 1968.  He was
dead before the the F1 season resumed in Europe in April.

Dave Wilson
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: gck@hector.uucp (24641-kemmerling)
Subject: Re: Clifford Allison's accident
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 19:34:08 GMT


Their article seems to be pretty much the opposite of what the
Winston Cup Scene wrote up.  If I remember correctly it said
the car hit on the passenger side and the seat did not come loose.
But, they did also say no-one witnessed it.  Hmmm.


Gayle 'wish I was back in Illinois' Kemmerling
E-mail address: gck@hector.cc.bellcore.com 
Morristown, N.J.
(201) 829-3950
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: tomh@wes.on.ca (Tom Haapanen)
Subject: Building F1/IndyCars in N. America (was: World or national series?)
Organization: Waterloo Engineering Software
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 12:11:07 GMT

> marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti) writes:
>> I cannot help to conclude that, for some reason, there do not seem to
>> be US companies which are able to design and build chassis which are
>> competitive with British-English companies at the level of F1 or
>> IndyCar/CART racing.  The same appears to be true of engines.

I agree with Robert -- the only potential exceptions are (were?) Truesports
and Swift.  And Swift hasn't attempted to break into the top echelons yet.

salil@igor.tamri.com (Salil Saxena) writes:
> I remember David Hobbs of ESPN saying that the environment laws in the US
> basically keep the "cottage" industry of making race cars very very expensive
> and unreasonable.  

Sorry, I don't buy this.  Most of the manufacture of an F1 or CART racecar
is fairly conventional machining, welding and fabrication.  Sure, you need 
an autoclave to do the carbon fibre tub, but US has all kinds of aerospace
industry dependent on autoclaves.  However, Salil goes on...

> Additionally, he mentioned that since there are already a very large number
> of small shops which specialize in this process in the UK, it again makes no
> sense to start your own.  This is perhaps the reason why Penske, Galmer,
> Lolas, March, etc.  are based in the UK.  BTW, I am reffereing to the small
> bits and piecies of the racing car (i.e. brake pads, rotors, Mg wheels,
> titanium under pieces, etc....)

This has more truth in it.  There are suppliers for *everything* in UK,
and, more importantly, that is where you will find knowledgeable designers
and skilled craftsmen who can come up with that car from that pile of
components.

This does *NOT*, however, preclude building a car in North America.  You'd
need to either find a good "native" designer or import one from England,
and to build a team of dedicated and skilled people around him.  You'd
locate near a wind tunnel (let's see, NRC has a BIG one...) and with
reasonably good access to an autoclave (start talking to those aerospace
companies with excess capacity).  The components?  Sure, I might call Xtrac
for a transmission, and maybe Zytek or Magneti-Marelli for electrics, but
the world is a small place these days.  I can get overnight courier service
to/from England, and a flight might take only five hours.

A bigger problem would be logistics for running an F1 team from here --
there, you'd need a European base, I think.  Or maybe IndyCar would be the
way to go at first.  :)

All right, so who'll get this thing started?  B^)

[ \tom haapanen  | "only bullfighting, mountain climbing and motor racing are ]
[ tomh@wes.on.ca |  sports -- all others are only games" -- ernest hemingway  ]
[ waterloo engineering software |     "to thine own self be true" -- polonius ]
From: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Richard Beckett)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: A Funny Ole F1 World..........
Date: 2 Sep 92 08:06:31 GMT
Reply-To: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Labs, Bristol, UK





			ENCORE !!
From: mferrare@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Mark Ferraretto)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1: Answers to recent trivia
Date: 2 Sep 92 01:54:58 GMT

burden_d@oass.enet.dec.com writes:


>>How about 1986 When Prost won the WC at Adelaide after Mansell's blowout?

>What's the question?  Prost clinched the title on the last race of
>the season (16/16).....

My apologies.  The question was:  "When, since 1980 (I think) was the WC 
decided at the last race?"
--
   \ | /   PA38.| Now | Name  : Mark Ferraretto
-----O-----Gotta| Aero| Place : Department of Physics and Mathematical Physics
     |     love |Rated|         University of Adelaide
    ---    it!! |-----| Email : mferrare@physics.adelaide.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: tvp53202@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Toby Vaughn Padfield)
Subject: Lotus?....
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 03:11:12 GMT

	Hey everyone!!! I just read that Herbert has resigned for '93.
Does anyone know about Hakkinen??? I read in AutoWeek that Sauber were
interested in Mika and Jyrki Jarvilehto.. It would be a damn shame to see
Mika somewhere other than Lotus next year. If anyone has any info, please
post. ADthanksVANCE...

TOBY PADBERG...

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Re: Patrese VS Schumacher
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 18:22:04 GMT

In article <95359@bu.edu> nicos@cs.bu.edu (Nicos Kontopoulos) writes:
>
>Can anyone confirm that Patrese will be #2 to Schumacher at Benneton in 1993?
>
>Someone mentioned this, but I seriously doubt it...
>
I read weeks ago that Schumacher (in his own words) was a for sure
at Benneton next year.  I see nothing wrong with him being #1 driver
there.

-c'ball-

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: esprit@netcom.com (Alan F. Perry)
Subject: Re: F1: No Williams for Senna in 93
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 18:22:06 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

aghao@sersun2.essex.ac.uk (Aghanya O A) writes:
>On the other hand, I have to say that I can clearly remember him doing 
>somehing similar in 1985 or 1986 to Martin Brundle (I think), who he expressly
>prevented from joining Lotus by prevailing on the team management.

Actually, it was Derek Warwick.  He did eventually get to drive for the team,
though.

alan

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: smiley@sdf.lonestar.org (M. Smiley)
Subject: Re: F1: No Williams for Senna in 93
Organization: sdf Public Access UNIX, Dallas--unrestricted free shell access
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 18:49:00 GMT

In article <BttF1p.CK3@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tvp53202@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Toby Vaughn Padfield) writes:
>	 The posts along this thread were getting to long to include, so
>I'll just add my $0.02... Williams will again be the benchmark in '93, but
>the Benetton with the new Ford-Cosworth V-12 will also be a FORCE!!!!!! 	I'm sure it will have some teething problems, but the HB V-8 didn't have
>too many bugs when it first came out, so i THINK it should be pretty compet-

Yeah, and the Honda V-10 didn't have too many problems out of the box, but,
look at the problems the V-12 had. Benneton will be a force only because they
posess the 2cd best chassis at the moment (alright Schumacher helps a bit).

>TOBY PADDINGTON...
>
How many last names do you have Toby ?

George.

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport