HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: albertw@netcom.com (The Email Otaku)
Subject: Re: Distance
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 22:07:08 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.172748.6300@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> agillum@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Aaron C Gillum) writes:
>Can someone explain how one gun shooting a 300 fps can launch a ball farther 
>than a different gun shooting at equal speed? I can see how the gyroscopic 
>affect put on a ball by a rifled barrel could add some distance, but I often 
>here people saying that a certain *gun* has more range than another.
>Could someone please clarify?

I think when most people talk about "range" it's the distance where you can
have a reasoably good chance to hitting your intended target.  Put too
different guns side by side with the same velocity and fire them at a
target.  The gun with the shorter "range" will start to miss as the target
gets farther away.  The ball probably travels the same distance in each
case, bu having a ball travel X feet and hitting the target is not the same
as a ball travelling X feet but Y feet to the left|right of the target.
^_^

-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Albert Wong                                                               |
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| Internet       : albertw@netcom.com | Compu$erve : 72657,2103		    |
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+-------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
From: agillum@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Aaron C Gillum)
Subject: Distance
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:27:48 GMT

Can someone explain how one gun shooting a 300 fps can launch a ball farther 
than a different gun shooting at equal speed? I can see how the gyroscopic 
affect put on a ball by a rifled barrel could add some distance, but I often 
here people saying that a certain *gun* has more range than another.
Could someone please clarify?

Aaron Gillum
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
From: mas@sbctri.tri.sbc.com (Marc A. Sullivan)
Subject: Re: Fixed amount of paint per player..
Organization: Southwestern Bell Technology Resources, St.Louis, MO
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 15:10:24 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.174453.20884@panix.com>, henryc@panix.com (Henry Chan) writes:

|> For the field owner, its a money losing idea.  Players won't be spending as
|> much money on paint (no more 1/2 case per person sales), have to set up a
|> separate group for players which require additional referees, and 
|> administration.
|> I heard alot about the success of California stockgun games, but none of the
|> fields up here feel they can make enough profit to implement it on a routine
|> basis.

I think your field owners have a very limited view (as do most).  For 
paintball to grow as support there HAS to be some control on player costs. 
And for running a field, the volume of players is the key to success.  
Reducing costs will increase the number of players.  

It seems that field owners believe they need to squeeze all the money
they can out of each player.  I don't think they realize that this
situation discourages new players from picking up the sport.  Just ask
yourself how many people you know of who have quit the sport (I know a very
large number).  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
From: henryc@panix.com (Henry Chan)
Subject: Re: Fixed amount of paint per player..
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 07:38:57 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <1992Nov20.151024.17915@sbctri.sbc.com> mas@sbctri.tri.sbc.com (Marc A. Sullivan) writes:
>I think your field owners have a very limited view (as do most).  For 
>paintball to grow as support there HAS to be some control on player costs. 
>And for running a field, the volume of players is the key to success.  
>Reducing costs will increase the number of players.  

To give you an idea of costs.  Normal green fees is $25.  Filling a 7 oz
costs $4-5 and about half of the fields still ban carry-on paint.  Field
can costs $18 for a 100 to a bargin price of $150 a case.  On average, NJ
fields are more liberal and fairer in prices than NY fields.  Its cheaper for
me to drive 3 hours to Wolf's Lair (now known as Adventure World) than to play
at some of the local NY fields.  Go figure.

>It seems that field owners believe they need to squeeze all the money
>they can out of each player.  I don't think they realize that this
>situation discourages new players from picking up the sport.  Just ask
>yourself how many people you know of who have quit the sport (I know a very
>large number).  
I know quite a few people who choose to play renegade or private games because
of the high fees.  Its sad when you feel safer at a renegade field than at a
commercially established field.

-- 
" I am from the planet Larson on the far side of the Galaxy" said the
space cow invading St. Canard -Dark Wing Duck

HenryC@Panix.Com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
From: johnm@cory.Berkeley.EDU (John D. Mitchell)
Subject: Re: How do you like your semiauto?
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 03:52:43 GMT

In article <1ebmdbINNqe5@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> mtnbiker@singletrack.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
[...]
>Another accessory that is excellent for the tippman is the VL 2000 motorized
>hopper, it is quite pricey but is well worth the $$$.  I used to have problems
>with ball jam in intense firefights, which caused my elimination several
>times. 
>After getting the VL, that problem has gone away and I get less breakage and 
>paint feeds more consistently into the breech/reciever.  With the VL I can
>throw 140+ rds per min.  I loaded up the hopper and went to the range and
>blasted away with zero misfeeds/breaks, I emptied in ~1 min.  My bottle
>was cool and I am sure velocity dropped, but that is to be expected with ANY
>gun.

IMO, the VL 2000 is a cool piece of technology that's not worth the price
(~ $70 I believe) to me.  I now use the largest size Indian Springs hopper
(200 rounds or so) and since a) it has a longer neck than a lot of other
hoppers b) it has that grove/channel and c) the Pro/Am has a fair bit of
recoil I find that I can blast away (when I want to waste paint of course
:-) with no problem.  It works beautifully for my normal firing pattern of
two and three (okay, sometime four) round bursts.  Accuracy is improved and
paint usage becomes reasonable.

[...]
>IMHO this is a very good gun/barrel/loader, and will be my back-up after I
>pick up an auto-cocker.

You might rather look into a (semi- ?) custom gun known as the Typhoon.
It's what the auto-cocker wishes it could be.  It's built along the same
principle but was designed from the ground up rather than as a hack to an
existing gun.  It's extremely small/lightweight, simple to clean/maintain,
is really, really quiet, and shoots very, very fast.  The guy who had one
did mention that it cost something like $550 though. :-)  This is what I'm
saving my money for.


On a completely different gun subject, does anybody have an F2 yet?

Go wild,
	John
	johnm@cory.Berkeley.EDU

Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
From: albertw@netcom.com (The Email Otaku)
Subject: Re: Fixed amount of paint per player..
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 22:23:24 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.142001.2373@gacvx2.gac.edu> emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp) writes:
>What do you all think of this? I think it would make the game more fun to
>have a limited amount of paint for each person playing. (Say.. 40 balls 
>per round?)
>
>Opinions?

It would be really cheaper to play. ^_^  No more hose-ball either.
-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Albert Wong                                                               |
+-------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Internet       : albertw@netcom.com | Compu$erve : 72657,2103		    |
| America Online : Al Wong            | Prodigy    : WJTM10B		    |
| Genie          : A.Wong7            | Fidonet    : Albert Wong @ 1:125/2  |
| PC-Relay       : NEWDIM(#97)        | <reserved>                          | 
+-------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
From: sl3nf@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
Subject: Re: Fixed amount of paint per player..
Date: 22 Nov 92 22:47:37 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

> To give you an idea of costs.  Normal green fees is $25.  Filling a 7 oz
> costs $4-5 and about half of the fields still ban carry-on paint.  Field
> can costs $18 for a 100 to a bargin price of $150 a case.  On average, NJ
> fields are more liberal and fairer in prices than NY fields.  Its cheaper for
> me to drive 3 hours to Wolf's Lair (now known as Adventure World) than to play
> at some of the local NY fields.  Go figure.


	HOLY SMOKES!!!  Where have you been playing???  Maybe it's just that I
live in Utah, but the field I play at quotes prices a third to half of the ones
you listed!  IPPA members play for $10, non-members - %15.  A 7oz fill is 3
dollars, and if your group buys paint as a group, paint is a MAX of $7 for 100
rounds.  And on the price of a case of paint, I've seen it as low as $85 a
case, (tack on some for shipping) and no, it wasn't Cal-Mag!

 "... where the 'stuff of life' is raining out of the skies..." 
                            -Carl Sagan 
                         sniggerfardimungus
                        in%"sl3nf@cc.usu.edu"
                 The usual disclaimers apply anywhere 
                     you can find a sticky spot.
From: jimfost@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Jim Foster)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
Subject: Paintball booby traps
Date: 15 Nov 92 07:28:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: matt.1e68c9INNc5n
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

I am intrerested in hearing opinions, anectdotes, etc. regarding paint grenades, mines and other non-gun methods of
painting one's opponents. I have seen some such things advertised in catalogs but have never heard of them being used
in Stateside games. Any info is apprecitated


-- 
Jim Foster                [   At any time, at any place, our snipers can      ]
jimfost@matt.ksu.ksu.edu  [   bring you down. Have a nice day.                ]
Kansas State University   [                                                   ]
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
From: peterbi@microsoft.com (Peter Biddle)
Subject: Re: How to refill air bottles
Date: 20 Nov 92 18:17:58 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Distribution: global

\\  Ok, really silly question, but it's not entirely obvious. You own your 
\\own gun and you're running out of air at the field. Do you keep spare bottles
\\on you, or in the car, or will all the good fields refill it for you. If
\\so, how much do they charge? Or do they swap out the bottles? Or .....
\\Inquiring minds want to know.
\\
\\-David

Average cost for a 7 oz refill (in WA and TX)-- $3

Average cost of bulk CO2-- $.28 per lb

Average ability of field personnel to refill bottles safely-- fair to lethal

The best way to fly in the long run is to invest in a refill station for
yourself.  This will set you back about $150-$200 for a 20 lb bottle, scale, and
valving.  Another option is to lease the bottle, which is what I did for
my field, and set me back a whopping $5 per 20lb bottle per month.  You may
need to be a legitimate business to do this, depending on your local
liquid CO2 wholesaler.

I allow for 1 lb per fill average (as you will lose some due to bleeding and
overfills), which works out to under $.30 per fill.  I'll leave you to amortize
your costs vs. usage and see how long it will take for a refill station to pay 
off.

Never, ever let someone fill your bottle without weighing it.  A 7 oz bottle
will take over 11 oz of CO2 if it is really cold.  When the bottle warms up,
it can get real interesting.  I saw a bottle blow apart a rear window on a Toyota
because it was overfilled and left out in the sun.  The 7 oz means 7 oz of liquid 
CO2.  The extra space is room for it to expand.

Keep in mind that CO2 is dangerous; make sure you know what you are doing
before you take the leap.

I use 3.5 oz bottles, and carry two on the field at a time, which is more than
enough for me at least 700 rounds (which I rarely blow in one game).  I also
carry a quick changer and 10 12 grams "just in case".

The only time that fields swap out (that i have seen) is with their own rental
guns.  Note:  Most fields seem to be pretty lax when it comes to rental gun
bottles.  You may have to really bitch to get a decent fill.

Anybody out there had any direct experience with using Nitrogen as a paintball
power source?  I know it requires a stronger than normal bottle--the last I heard 
was AGD was trying out steel bottles wrapped with fiber-glass, but I haven't heard
much lately.

Peter
+++++
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
From: peterbi@microsoft.com (Peter Biddle)
Subject: Re: Fixed amount of paint per player..
Date: 20 Nov 92 17:38:12 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Distribution: global

I assume that you are trying to limit hosing?  I have been waiting (and I still
am) for a "Novice" level gun/tourney, that would essentially do that for you.

Specs:
Semi-auto (true, not lamoid double action)
8 inch (or less) barrell
Gravity (or sping) feed that accepts 10 rd tubes (remember those?) only
3.5 oz (or less, no 12 grams) CA

I think a lot of us would occasionally like to hit the woods with 100 rds
and a pistol small enough to shoot easily one-handed, that is reliable,
has no learning curve (point it at the bad guy and squeeze the trigger),
and does not reward suppressive fire.

It would also make a killer back-up when you decide to become a hoser.

This would also bring alot of rookies into the fold faster.  The traditional
rookie guns just stink--the PGP, Nelson and all flavors of Splatmaster have
a steep learning curve, meaning that we lose potential players because they 
spend the whole day splitting balls instead of shooting people.
Xref: sparky rec.sport.paintball:1612 alt.sport.paintball:1221
From: hargijk@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball,alt.sport.paintball
Subject: 205 MPH! I QUIT!
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:23:33 GMT
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY


Is it true? 205 MILES PER HOUR!

Forget my previous post about being an excited newbie. I QUIT!

I now have all my equipment up for sale!

Joey Hargis
A "Very Horrified" Ex-Newbie
Hargijk@wkuvx1.bitnet

P.S. Disclaimer: For the Humorously Impaired, This is a joke.
(A semi-bad joke I might add.) My equipment is NOT for sale.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
From: duha3727@elan.glassboro.edu (KIM DUHACEK)
Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP
Organization: Rowan College of New Jersey
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 14:23:21 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.225822.29118@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bcetnar@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Blake Cetnar) writes:
>From: bcetnar@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Blake Cetnar)
>Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP
>Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:58:22 GMT
>In article <1992Nov10.211544.17610@wam.umd.edu> pjaffe@next12csc.wam.umd.edu (P
>aul I. Jaffe) writes:
>>    Hey, I'm going to be paintballing for the first time next week and
>>I was wondering if someone could e-mail me anything dealing with strategy
>>or tips for the beginner. Thank you!!!
>>
>>                   -P
>>                   pjaffe@wam.umd.edu
>
>
>He, He...strategy?  Yeah!  Kill em all!!!

Since it is your first game, I assume that you are doing it for fun, so make 
sure that you just have fun.  I would suggest playing offense, don't be 
afraid to get shot, or you will miss all of the action.  My first game I 
stayed in the fort hidden behind some baracades, the ref would blow the 
whistle to call the game over, and I would wonder what happened.  Now I try 
to get more involved, but sometimes it gets scary.  My biggest piece of 
advice is look carefully before you shoot.  If you are playing with a bunch 
of people and you are not sure who is on which team, I think it is better to 
miss the shot then to shoot a team member, it doesn't make for a very happy 
lunch break.  Have fun

Kimberly
From: hargijk@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
Subject: Re: Price Lists
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:11:40 GMT
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY

In article <gt1158.2bwy@terapin.com>, gt1158@terapin.com (Guillermo Talamantes) writes:
> 
> O.K. guys, let's cool it with the Price Posts. Let's not try to turn this group
> into an on-line catalog by different stores and suppliers. I mean, why not just
> start a new gropup called alt.paintball.slaes?
> We could have many companies, stores, suppliers, etc., post their price lists
> and try to out-do each other in a BBS price battle. Yeah, why not invite the
> big guys over, TASO, PMI, AGD, ICS, USI, CCI, WGP, SI, Tippmann along with some
> growing stores like Foxhunters, PBSoM, PB Paradise, Petaluma PB, Pacific Supply
> PB, TAPS, Delta Archery, DRACO and have them all beat each others prices.  But
> come on, let's keep this group away from becomming too comercialized.
> Otherwise, this group will be all mixed up between tips, questions, and
> *promotions*. So how about it? Does a alt.paintball.sales soun good? I think we
> really need it, Unless we just discourage price post altogether. Oh well   
> LATER...
> 
> 
> 
>         KEEP
>               THOSE
>                      BALLS
>                             FLYING!!!

Let me, as the originator of the price lists string, to humbly
appologize to the net-censors for starting this string. I was mearly
expressing my 1st Amendment rights about how impressed I was with
John's prices. As far as the "Big Guys". I think they are overpriced. 
I think John should be allowed to give his prices over the net.       
This is capitalism at its best.                                       

Let's keep this group away from becoming "Commercialized."
This group is already commercialized! We talk about different
products, what we like, dislike, etc. If you dont want to read John's
posts about Hamiliton Hobbies then put them in your kill file, or
don't read them.

Joey Hargis
An "Overexcited" Paintball Player.
Hargijk@wkuvx1.bitnet
From: btkuo@remus.rutgers.edu (    Bernie)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
Subject: Re: How do you like your semiauto?
Date: 17 Nov 92 04:38:01 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

okay okay okay, I had sent a personal reply about the F-1, but since
it's getting slammed here, I will have to speak up for it.

The VM-68 is a big ugly gun.  First you have that dorky bottle in the
front, and if you move it to the back (like 80% have done), you need
to add more $$$ and you have the silly hose running down the side of
your gun.

The Automag.  Did anyone ever take that thing apart?  I'm not talking
about sliding out that big bolt, but the entire innards.  That has
about 50+ pieces in it.  Liquid gets in the gun, forget about it.
That gun will freeze up on you and most likely blow the internal
o-rings.  Also, it is an expensive gun.  If you don't mind tinkering,
when the automag is working, it shoots great.

Pro-Am, can't say too much about it.  It's a gun made by Tippman which
is saying a lot right there.  It's rugged, reliable, air-efficient,
but the gun isn't for me.

The Illustrator....
Now, that gun doesn't have a lot of pieces inside.  I believe 12 maybe
(lets see valve, cup seal, 2 springs, cocking bolt, hammer).  That is
the majority of the inside of that gun.
	The gun is accurate, quiet and very air efficient.  (unlike
the VM-68, which I might add, does not work in cold weather, unless
you have some sort of expansion chamber (like the Black Rain kit).
During the summer, I have gotten 500+ shots out of my 7oz tank with a
0 groove valve pin.  Breakdown is easy, and the gun rarely breaks any
paintballs, ask any Illustrator owner and they will tell you that.
	With the release of the new F-2 Illustrator, it just spruces
up what the F-1 was lacking, namely...
	1.  Barrel with muzzle break and rifling.
	2.  No tools required for removing the pin on top of gun.
	3.  Top cocking system (don't know if that's an improvement)
	4.  external velocity adjuster.
	5.  A new foregrip in front of the gun.

I am interested to see if this will live up to the F-1's reputation,
but the important thing here, no matter which gun you have...

	IT'S THE PLAYER THAT MAKES THE GAME, NOT THE GUN.
(RIGHT BRUCE?)


- Bernie
Co-Captain
"Team Genocide"
From: john@kennel.FIDONET.ORG (John Hamilton)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
Subject: New Product
Date: 20 Nov 92 19:56:18 GMT
Organization: Fido's Kennel, Cupertino CA

Hamilton Hobbies has another new product you might be interested in.
 
From USI, a camo butt pack with suspenders built in, 8 horizontal (side
entry) tube pouches, adjustable vertical pouch for 7/20oz. bottle, pouch
entry stiffeners, squeegie holder, detachable pocket for personal items,
complete with 8 USI clear 100-round bulk tubes with flexible lids.
 
This is a great system. It is priced at $84.99 with 100-rnd tubes included.
 
We also have Vents Predator OTG Thermal goggle/mask/armor systems for
$85.99. This reflects the manufacturer's recent increase in prices across
the board for the Vents systems. Subtract $5.00 for non-OTG thermal lense.
 
TASO Assault gloves, very nice, sizes S-XXL, $11.95 a pair.
 
John 

--- DB 1.50/001026
 * Origin: Fido's Kennel - usenet newsgroup gateway services (1:143/8)
--  
John Hamilton                  uucp: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!john
DoD #0327   ToT #11            internet: john@f8.n143.z1.fidonet.org
ZX-11 From Hell.               arpa: john@kennel.FIDONET.ORG
She said, "Its either me or that ZX-11!" Too bad, I'll miss her.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball
From: wwg2101@zeus.tamu.edu (GILPIN, W.W.)
Subject: Re: Fixed amount of paint per player..
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:50:00 GMT

>What do you all think of this? I think it would make the game more fun to
>have a limited amount of paint for each person playing. (Say.. 40 balls 
>per round?)

I agree, but I think 40 might be too thin. Say 150. No more than 200. This
gives people with semis a chance to enjoy their guns, but they also have to 
know how to shoot instead of just spray and pray. It would put a balance back
in the game that it has been rapidly losing. This way all players would be
competitive, not just those with the most money. (especially newbies and
occasional players) I would wholeheartedly support this kind of rule. 
(for reference, I use an Illustrator and yes, I sometimes do use more than
150 rounds in a game. For me this is a sign that I paniced or completely
lost all trigger control.)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Wes Gilpin              | I'd kill myself for you...I'd kill you for myself |
| WWG2101@TAMZEUS(BITNet) |------------------------------------------         |
| WWG2101@ZEUS.TAMU.EDU   | Southwest Knights of Nee Paintball Team | PANTERA |
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Newsgroups: rec.sport.paintball