From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Straight Stereotypes (was Re: To Laura)
Date: 11 Sep 92 03:40:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Sep11.034032.27409
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Sep11.010331.4896@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:
>They shouldn't. Not if it isn't fun or enjoyable for them.  But there
>are thousands of behaviors that people can engage in; by saying that
>someone shouldn't engage in two or three of them, that is by no means
>chopping off their only source of entertainment.

OK, Bob.  Stop fucking your poker buddies.  Gay sex is icky.

>/Or are you asking why gay men would engage in practiced, deliberate 
>/behavior that happens to bother straight men 
>No I am not asking that.  I am asking what good does it do to bring
>to life all the stereotypes that people have about gays.

And who is doing that?

>If there were a TV show that featured a gay character, and the individual
>was written into the script to be nelly, campy, etc. the gay community
>would react in protest, saying that the show "furthered negative
>stereotypes and fueld homophobia".  

Not at all.  Think of _Brothers_, not that it was such a marvelous
show.  I think a lot depends on the character and the context.  "Donald"
was queeny, but he was also an individual, and not simply a stereotype.
(Get it?  N..o..t..s..i..m..p..l..y..a..s..t..e..r..e..o..t..y..p..e)
Or Harvey Fierstein appearing on _Cheers_ as Kirstie Alley's ex-boyfriend.
The whole joke there is that he's "obviously" gay to everyone but her.
No pickets, no protests.  Most gay people I knew thought it was a pretty
funny show.  Or _Torch Song Trilogy_.  Gay people love it.  Straight
people love it.  The recent PBS rebroadcasts of the BBC situation comedy
"Are you Being Served?"  It's a scream to watch, since the gay character
(whose name escapes me) is so obviously superior to his peers.  All these
shows feature effeminate men, but they're _not simply stereotypes_.  Get it?

Now, having let this sink in, perhaps it might dawn on you that your
paranoid reaction to encountering (or imagining) feminine men might
be a bit unfair to them, in the same way that this caricature of
you as a Neanderthal poker-playin' Oscar Madison probably doesn't
even begin to capture the marvelous complexity of what is Bob Sarver,
who has deigned to give us only the most limited, unfair glimpse of
this masterwork.

>I have seen mail-in campaigns over this kind of stuff before.  If there 
>were such a show right now, I am sure that some of the soc.motss folks would 
>be among the first to call the network and complain.

Nope.

>How can some gays insist that such behavior is OK and not up for 
>examination, then turn around and complain when a TV show has a character 
>portraying that same behavior?

Strawman.  They don't.

>/who are stereotypically 
>/straight (who, therefore,engage in practiced, deliberate behavior)?
>No they are not.  Most do it because they like it, not as an 
>attention-getting mechanism, or a way to piss people off. 

Right.  But effeminate men aren't like that, are they?  Feh!

Do you ever get the idea that this guy's mind runs round and round in circles?


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer