HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: My next machine: Amiga or PC Clone? Help me out.
Date: 28 Sep 92 11:33:47 GMT
Organization: Wright State University

In article <1992Sep25.220450.918@msi.com>, bill@snoopy (Bill Poitras) writes:
> coult (coult@poincare.geom.umn.edu) wrote:
> : I am asking for some advice from all you net-people out there.
> 
> 1) What math and other packages are you going to use, and which machines
> are they availible for?
> 
	We'll  I know one person who is using an Amiga 3000 for writing
	his PhD in Physics (I think).  He has been able to find enough stuff
	to get by.  LaTeX,  Maple,  GNUPlot, etc.   However,  I think as far
	as commercial software,  you'd probably be better off looking at
	PC Clowns or Macs.  But on the other hand, if you are a true-blue
	Amiga person,  you could try to get it done using your favorite
	machine!

> 2) What are the campus computers?  Some time you find yourself sitting at
> a school computer with incompatible software.  It could happen.
> 
> 3) If the OS is a big factor in your decision, then look into OS/2 2.0.
> A 486/66 with 8MB will be more than enough power.  A lot of Amiga users
> are impressed with the stuff OS/2 2.0 can do.  Dell will preload it for
> you if I'm not mistaken.
> 
> 4) A 486/66 will probably be too fast for time critical games.  Maybe
> that's a minus :-)

	This speed problem is not present on the Amiga.  Most Amiga games
	get their timming from the VBlank timer (I think).  There are games
	that don't run because they were made to work on a 7mhz 68000 only.
	Most new games run fine.  I am not a voracious game player so I haven't
	had a big sample though.

> 
> I personally think software availibility is most important.  

	Software availablity for *you*, not in general.  If every body
	used software availablilty in general for criteria, then we'd 
	mostly use clones and what fun would that be?
> 
> --
> +-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
> | Bill Poitras    | Molecular Simulations Inc.    | Tel (408)522-9229       |
> | (bill)          | Sunnyvale, CA USA             |                         | 
> |                 | FAX (408)732-0831             | bill@msi.com            |
> +-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
> 
Fred Heitkamp,  ** Not an organization.  My opinions only **
From: eas3714@ultb.isc.rit.edu (E.A. Story)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Low End AGA Machine
Date: 1 Oct 92 21:06:09 GMT
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Originator: eas3714@ultb

In article <1992Sep30.175457.8235@lth.se> e91sg@efd.lth.se (Stefan Gimeson) writes:
>In article <Marc.A.Echeveste.1-290992120346@129.74.207.54> Marc.A.Echeveste.1@nd.edu (Marc.A.Echeveste.1@nd.edu) writes:
>>I have heard many mixed reviews about the A4000, but it seems that AGA is
>>the wave of the future.  Since my old A500's just about kicked, I'm going
>>to want a new Amiga, but the A4000 is a bit steep for this struggling
>>college student.  This may be a dumb question, but is Commodore planning on
>>coming out with an AGA machine that's a bit less pricey?  I'm sure they
>>will, but any idea on when this might happen, and possible specs?  

>According to a german friend of mine and some german Amiga-magazine
>there will be an A1200 with -020, AGA, and a harddrive before 
>christmas (that's christmas 1992 for all you pessimists out there...)
>for about half the price of an A4000.

$3000/2 = $1500 ..egad!  Too damn much!.. especially for a '20
machine.  C= better not, or the AGA line won't survive PAST christmas.

                       ---Ezra
-- 
"THAT is a DRY turtle.  That turtle is NOT moist!"
Ezra Story, a student at RIT, and
eas3714@ultb.isc.rit.edu, his trusty(?) mailing address.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com>
Subject: a4000
Reply-To: "robert buonincontro" <robert.buonincontro@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: comp
Date: 5 Oct 92 10:16:35 EST

-> I have no idea. I doubt you would see it for some time, however,
-> since the
-> AGA market is really tiny right now. If you thought it was hard to
-> get good games to Amigas before AGA, just imagine how hard it will be
-> to get them on to machines with an even smaller user-base (ie: AGA
-> Amigas). Commodore has to push these machines like they've never
-> pushed anything before - halfassed marketing and moderate pricing
-> just won't do it - they absolutely must blow doors with th AGA
-> machines if they want them to attract any decent publisher support
-> (for games, at least).
-> The pricing on the A4000 is a very good start in the right direction.
-> Imagin
-> what it will be down to in a year or two. If all goes as planned, I
-> should have my own AGA Amiga by January. Unfortunately, I think the
-> only software that will take advantage of it by then is ADPro,
-> ProWrite, a handful of other apps, some new public domain GIF
-> viewers, and games like Fighter Duel Pro. It's chicken-and-the-egg
-> time again folks. Let's hope Commodore picks one an
-> goes with it this time.

 I agree, Commodore will have to offer some trade up promotions.
Replacement motherboards would be a smart idea. While replacement
motherboards aren't in Commodores nature since it means replacing 1
Amiga instead of putting 1 Amiga in a home. I think it's needed to get
as large a user base on AGA machines as possible. After all we don't
want to see the AGA graphic Amiga go the way of the Atari STE.
A superior computer with better graphics but not many developers took
advantage of the better graphics because there weren't enough machines
out there.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: andrey@cco.caltech.edu (Andre T. Yew)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: AGA hidden registers - C= is giving me an attitude
Date: 1 Oct 1992 15:51:41 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu
Keywords: The worse part is I have the cash for the A4000

kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:

>kontos@clipper.ingr.com (Thorne Kontos) writes:
>>Some folks here are already beginning to gripe about C=
>>not releasing information about the AGA chip set. They
>>tell us they don't want us to "hit" the hardware but
>>instead only use authorized system routines.
>>[...]
>>PUBLISH THE SPECS/REGISTERS OF THE AGA CHIPSET

>Yep, not publishing the specs simply delays the inevitable... it
>only means that someone (other than Commodore) will make big bucks
>selling "inside the Amiga AGA chipset" manuals.

>It might also mean that some companies will pass over the Amiga in
>their projects (eg: stuff like PreVue Guide, big VR games, etc)
>simply because of the possible hassle of convincing Commodore that
>they need the specs.

	I can't believe that I've just read two of the utterly
stupidest articles in advocacy yet.  People complain about
not having DIG, and now they want C= to release register-
level information about the AGA chipset?  What happens
when the next generation chipset comes out?  Does C= have
to bend over backwards to accomodate the hardware bangers
again and compromise progress?  Besides, as the hardware
gets more complicated, do you expect hackers to have the
sophistication to figure out how to align and schedule
their graphics calls so they can get the best possible
peformance?  I personally doubt it with no documentation.

	I hate to break it to both of you, but the Amiga isn't
a giant Commodore 64.  And for people who still doubt that
this will restrict graphics applications because of performance
loss, I have three letters for you:  SGI.

--Andre

-- 
             Andre Yew andrey@cco.caltech.edu (131.215.139.2)
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: REAL FALCON 030 SPECS
Date: 2 Oct 92 04:16:20 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <Chris_Millar.058g@lppl.mi.org> Chris_Millar@lppl.mi.org (Chris Millar) writes:
> About the combined video/memory bus, etc....
> Atari installed a new BLITTER chip in the Falcon - technically, it is not a
> Blitter, but a multi-purpose I/O processor - it is called the COMBEL - it
> handles a great deal of disk reads and writes and all of the video mode
> handlings......the bandwidth limitations lie in the COMBEL's ability to
> process the video, and nothing else - and if you think the Falcon's video
> is slow, you have obviously never seen one - it zips!
> Oh, BTW, since the 68030 doesn't handle video, it is realistically rated at
> 4.5 MIPS.....

Chris - If you have factual information on the Falcon architecture beyond
what has been available here to date, please do everyone a favor and post
it in some coherent form.  Most of the discussion here has been based on
the best information publically available and is subject to reconsideration
should better information become avaiilable.
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: REAL FALCON 030 SPECS
Date: 2 Oct 92 03:38:30 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <Chris_Millar.058e@lppl.mi.org> Chris_Millar@lppl.mi.org (Chris Millar) writes:
> Very limited amount of memory for the Falcon's DSP?  Oh, ok, pal...
> Obviously you don't realize that the 32Kwords of StaticRAM available to the
> DSP is FOUR TIMES the amount available to the DSP on the NeXT's.....

Well, the NeXT proved that a DSP was more powerful as a sales feature
and a way of selling disk drives than really adding something that the
average use of the machine takes advantage of.  Does this make the
Atari DSP 4 times as useless?  8-)

In case this seems harsh, the utility of the DSP isn't just being there,
it's what it can do and how well it is supported by the software.  The
extra RAM is nice, but doesn't really change this.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.tech,comp.sys.amiga.programmer,comp.sys.amiga.applications,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: cschneid@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (Schneider Christian)
Subject: Re:  HDMem vs GigaMem for virtual memory on Amigas?
Organization: Informatik Club d. Universitaet, Zuerich
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 19:29:18 GMT

In article <dej.01pt@qpoint.ocunix.on.ca> dej@qpoint.ocunix.on.ca (David Jones) writes:
>Does it work if I Forbid() and then page fault?  Disable() and page fault?
>(i.e. if my Forbid() gets broken and whatever I was trying to mutex with
>the Forbid() gets un-mutexed, then it don't work.)

GigaMem tries its best to keep Forbid()s mutex. This is nevertheless
100%, one could figure configurations where another task could sneak
in and change some lists etc.
Disable() does not work and will provoke a software failure-like requester
giving the user the ability to Suspend/Reboot...

Note: Both this cases could be avoided for existing software due to
GigaMem's unique feature to use program specific settings..
Even for 'nasty' programs like ImageMaster which uses MEMF_PUBLIC for
ALL his buffer allocations.

>I've heard of GigaMem, but I'd be interested in seeing exactly what
>restrictions are placed on programmers because of it.  I am writing a
>shared library, and I don't want to deny appliction programmers use of
>my library if they want to use GigaMem.

I try to put this as short as possible:
1) Use MEMF_PUBLIC for all allocations except the large (and probably
   growing with the data) buffers. 
2) Not these large buffers from within Disable()/SoftInts/IntHandlers
   and preferably not Forbid(). Don't put  program code into such buffers.

Note: Point 1 is a hint, point 2 is a general rule for virtual memory...

More complete information can be obtained from the GigaMem developer
kit which includes information about vmem.library and its support routines
and can be obtained from the distributor of GigaMem.

- Chris
-- 
-- 
Chris Schneider - cschneid@amiga.physik.unizh.ch BIX: hschneider IRC: cschneid
It's impossible to enjoy idling thoroughly unless one has plenty of work to do
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.tech,comp.sys.amiga.programmer,comp.sys.amiga.applications,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: dave@news.ccutah.edu (dave martin)
Subject: Re: HDMem vs GigaMem for virtual memory on Amigas?
Organization: University of Utah Computer Center
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 04:18:27 GMT

Does Imagine work with GigaMem?

What programs are known to not work with it? (and what is known to work?)

dave@csulx.weber.edu (ignore the header, its probably wrong)

Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.tech:95 comp.sys.amiga.programmer:13910 comp.sys.amiga.applications:7525 comp.sys.amiga.misc:14580
From: chrisg@cbmvax.commodore.com (Chris Green)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.tech,comp.sys.amiga.programmer,comp.sys.amiga.applications,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: HDMem vs GigaMem for virtual memory on Amigas?
Date: 1 Oct 92 12:20:00 GMT
Reply-To: chrisg@cbmvax.commodore.com (Chris Green)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1992Sep30.165503.23440@ifi.unizh.ch> blatter@ifi.unizh.ch (Martin A. Blatter) writes:
>GigaMem can manage up to 1 GB of virtual memory. It works on a
>per-program basis, this means you can continue to use programs
>that are incompatible with virtual memory while GigaMem is running. 
>You can individually set memory priorities and settings for each 
>program.
>
	Does it work on a 2620 (68020+mmu) card?
	Does it work on the 040?
-- 
*-------------------------------------------*---------------------------*
|Chris Green - Graphics Software Engineer   - chrisg@commodore.COM      f
|                  Commodore-Amiga          - uunet!cbmvax!chrisg       n
|My opinions are my own, and do not         - icantforgettheimpression  o
|necessarily represent those of my employer.- youmadeyouleftaholeinthe  r
|"A screaming comes across the sky..."      - backofmyhead              d
*-------------------------------------------*---------------------------*
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.tech,comp.sys.amiga.programmer,comp.sys.amiga.applications,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga
From: traynor@fnalc.fnal.gov
Subject: HDMem vs GigaMem for virtual memory on Amigas?
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 05:29:52 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalc.fnal.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Hello--

Just wondering if anyone out there had tried the follwoing programs out and
could review them or even tell me info on how to get one:

	o HDMem
	o GigaMem

Both are programs that allow any user with AmigaDOS 2.0+ and an MMU to use 
virtual memory on the Amiga.  I know that GigaMem is $110 at a store around
here; HDMem is on Fred Fish 740 in a demo version; have no other details on
it.  Do they work?  How easy are they to install?  What features/bugs are
on them?  Which if either do you recommend?  What is street/retail price of
real HDMem?

Please e-mail directly.  Thank you for your responses.

					-Mike Traynor

-- 
NNN  NN DDDD    Mike Traynor (ND '86)(Rice '93?) |||     Amiga 500 owner   ///
 N N N   D  D   Fermilab PO Box 500 MS 221 E683  |||     w/MMR 7 Meg DRAM ///
 N  NN   D  D   Batavia IL, 60510               //|\\    190 Meg HD   \\\/// 
NN   NN DDDD    (708) 879-6095 [ans. mach.]    /// \\\   14.4Kbps modem\XX/
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.tech,comp.sys.amiga.programmer,comp.sys.amiga.applications,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: cschneid@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (Schneider Christian)
Subject: Re: HDMem vs GigaMem for virtual memory on Amigas?
Organization: Informatik Club d. Universitaet, Zuerich
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 10:16:46 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.041827.18781@fcom.cc.utah.edu> dave@news.ccutah.edu (dave martin) writes:
>Does Imagine work with GigaMem?

Yes.

>What programs are known to not work with it? (and what is known to work?)

Currently none I tried. The only limitations are
DPaint can use vmem only for animations (pics are kept in chip memory),
AudioMaster cannot sample to vmem (which would not make sense anyway
since hard disk access would result in ugly noise... Only way around
this is a specialized hard disk recording tool using some clever double
buffering scheme).

Perhaps a list with memory eating program could be constructed,
so the already existing database of GigaMem could be made more
complete.
I plan to release updated databases via ftp etc. regularly...

>dave@csulx.weber.edu (ignore the header, its probably wrong)

- Chris
-- 
-- 
Chris Schneider - cschneid@amiga.physik.unizh.ch BIX: hschneider IRC: cschneid
It's impossible to enjoy idling thoroughly unless one has plenty of work to do
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.tech:89 comp.sys.amiga.misc:14510 comp.sys.amiga.applications:7456
From: will@vulcan.austin.ibm.com (Will Fiveash)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.tech,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.applications
Subject: Setpatch/Kickstart1.2 = Kickstart1.3 ?
Date: 29 Sep 92 01:48:39 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.applications
Organization: IBM PSP Austin, Tx.

I am running Kickstart 1.2 with setpatch.  My question is, is this
equivalent to Kickstart 1.3?  I am having serious problems (guru time)
with Final Copy which is supposed to be 1.3 compatible.  Does anyone
have a definitive answer.  If I need to upgrade, what is the most
convienient way.  I have a 2000 with a 020 board in it and I have a
harddrive with Workbench 1.3 and I do not want to lose 1.3
compatibility since I run older applications besides Final Copy.  It
would be nice if there was some sort of boot option I could select.
-- 
Will Fiveash,  "My opinions above, facts below."
Internet:  will@austin.ibm.com 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.tech,comp.sys.amiga.programmer,comp.sys.amiga.applications,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: matija@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (Matija Milostnik)
Subject: Re: HDMem vs GigaMem for virtual memory on Amigas?
Summary: GigaMem and 680x0
Keywords: GigaMem
Organization: Informatik Club d. Universitaet, Zuerich
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:26:28 GMT

In article <35504@cbmvax.commodore.com> chrisg@cbmvax.commodore.com (Chris Green) writes:
>In article <1992Sep30.165503.23440@ifi.unizh.ch> blatter@ifi.unizh.ch (Martin A. Blatter) writes:
>>GigaMem can manage up to 1 GB of virtual memory. It works on a
>	Does it work on a 2620 (68020+mmu) card?
Yes
>	Does it work on the 040?
Not (yet)

Bye
 Matija
>|Chris Green - Graphics Software Engineer   - chrisg@commodore.COM      f
-- 
Best regards from Matija Milostinik           : matija@avalon.ifi.unizh.ch  
                                              : matija@amiga.physik.unizh.ch
Therefore, use local labels in the procedures as often as possible. 
Save the environment!  Recycle!  ;-)                 (Bjoern Reese)
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.tech:96 comp.sys.amiga.programmer:13917 comp.sys.amiga.applications:7529 comp.sys.amiga.misc:14584
From: sacke@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Elizabeth E Sack)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.tech,comp.sys.amiga.programmer,comp.sys.amiga.applications,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: HDMem vs GigaMem for virtual memory on Amigas?
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:02:01 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <35504@cbmvax.commodore.com> chrisg@cbmvax.commodore.com (Chris Green) writes:
>>
>	Does it work on a 2620 (68020+mmu) card?
>	Does it work on the 040?
>-- 
>*-------------------------------------------*---------------------------*
>|Chris Green - Graphics Software Engineer   - chrisg@commodore.COM      f

GigaMem currently only supports the 68020 and 68030 chips.  There is a 
mention of 68040 compatibility in the future.  Yes, the 68020 must have
an MMU.  You can not use 68EC030 chips, because they have no onboard
MMU.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+|----------------------|+|------------------------------|+
+|                      |+|  Studio J Video Productions  |+
+| Jeff Hanna           |+|  PO Box 3086                 |+ 
+| Animation Consultant |+|  West Lafayette, IN 47906    |+
+|                      |+|  (317) 743-2983              |+
+|----------------------|+|------------------------------|+
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+|-----------------|+|-----------------------------------|+
+| GEnie: J.HANNA5 |+| InterNet: sacke@gn.ecn.purdue.edu |+
+|-----------------|+|-----------------------------------|+
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.tech,comp.sys.amiga.programmer,comp.sys.amiga.applications,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: blatter@ifi.unizh.ch (Martin A. Blatter)
Subject: Re: HDMem vs GigaMem for virtual memory on Amigas?
Organization: University of Zurich, Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 16:55:03 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.232952.1@fnalc.fnal.gov> traynor@fnalc.fnal.gov writes:
>	o HDMem
>	o GigaMem
>
>Both are programs that allow any user with AmigaDOS 2.0+ and an MMU to use 
>virtual memory on the Amiga.  

GigaMem is actually supposed to work on 1.3 machines too. I never
tried it myself though ;-)

>Do they work?  

I can only speak of GigaMem which I'm running right now on my machine.
It works great.

>How easy are they to install?  

GigaMem has an `Installer' script so it's very easy to install. It
even automatically detects and fixes incorrect DMA masks on your system.

>What features/bugs are on them?  

GigaMem can manage up to 1 GB of virtual memory. It works on a
per-program basis, this means you can continue to use programs
that are incompatible with virtual memory while GigaMem is running. 
You can individually set memory priorities and settings for each 
program.

>NNN  NN DDDD    Mike Traynor (ND '86)(Rice '93?) |||     Amiga 500 owner   ///

Hope that helps
--Martin

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin A. Blatter                           blatter@amiga.physik.unizh.ch
Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature.
                                                         -- Rich Kulawiec
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.tech:98 comp.sys.amiga.programmer:13936 comp.sys.amiga.applications:7544
From: diskount@micromed.com (don hirschfeld)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.tech,comp.sys.amiga.programmer,comp.sys.amiga.applications,comp.s
Subject: Re: HDMem vs GigaMem for virtual memory on Amigas?
Date: 1 Oct 92 19:34:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: micromed.wkDZRB1w165w
Organization: Micro-Medic BBS - +1 408 279 5240 - Public Access

> GigaMem currently only supports the 68020 and 68030 chips.  There is a 
> mention of 68040 compatibility in the future.  Yes, the 68020 must have
> an MMU.  You can not use 68EC030 chips, because they have no onboard
> MMU.
Does GigaMem require 2.04 or can it be used with 1.3 WB?

-- 
diskount@micromed.com (don hirschfeld)
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.tech:106 comp.sys.amiga.programmer:14021