Newsgroups: bit.listserv.gaynet
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 11:58:54 -0400
From:         gaynet@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject:      GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 645

In this issue:
                    Bank of America funding the BSA
                      To Anonymous re: Ungay Gays
                    GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 642
                 Flag Burning at Republican Convention
                            Anagrams please
                             Greg Louganis
                            gabriel's story
                             politics on ..
                    GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 639
                    GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 643
                             Greg Louganis
            THE LIVING END: NuArt Theatre Sat 8/22 -- NOT!!!
                          MARY FISHER'S SPEECH

Please send messages for the entire list to gaynet@ATHENA.MIT.EDU,
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Postings to GayNet are public communications.  If you must keep your
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: kadie@eff.org (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: Bank of America funding the BSA
Originator: kadie@eff.org
Organization: The Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 11:05:57 GMT

[...]
>Let me suggest that you first call your local Scout Council to find out
>what their policy on gays in scouting is.
[...]

You don't have to work that hard. The September copy of "Scouting"
Magazine (just "out") has a 3-page article that makes clear that gays
and atheists are not welcome.

- Carl
--
Carl Kadie -- I do not represent EFF; this is just me.
 =kadie@eff.org, kadie@cs.uiuc.edu =

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 09:26:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Schwartzberg <sabra@cs.umb.edu>
Subject: To Anonymous re: Ungay Gays
Mime-Version: 1.0

Please contact me, I would love to do the show, or at least give u
whatever info you need.  And please if anyone is going to flame me
for discriminating, either a) write me privately and we'll discuss it
(we don't need to take up bandwidth) or b)put a condom on it and stick
it somewhere.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DAVID SCHWARTZBERG     ____/\____   Those who know what's best for us, must
SABRA @ RA.UMB.EDU     \  /  \  /   rise and save us from ourselves.  Quick
                        \/ \  \/    to judge,quick to anger, slow to under-
UNIV MASS - BOSTON      /\ /\ /\    stand; ignorance and prejudice and fear
                       /__\__/__\   walk hand in hand.        ---Neil Peart
RUSH & AEPi RULE!          \/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: csb@world.std.com (Charles S Bedard)
Subject: Re: GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 642
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 10:31:47 EDT

My computer got a severe case of indigestion from the Pat Buchanon
speech.  It was bad enough the first time around. Could you please
put stuff like that in a separate envelope so that those of us who
are trying to lower our stress level could hit the 'd' key.

Thanks.

Charles
Cambridge  (not located in the infinite landscape without location
or vector) (Where are youse guys anyway??)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 07:27:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Loren Meissner <lmeissne@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Flag Burning at Republican Convention
Mime-Version: 1.0

I never said that the American flag was sacred. I did mean to say that the
burning of the flag at the RNC in Houston Sunday at an ACT-UP
demonstration last Sunday was counterproductive in that it shifted the
debate from AIDS to flag-burning. Since most of the responses to my
earlier comments were on the subject of flag-burning, not AIDS, I feel
I've made my point.
I think most of my differences with some of you on Gaynet is that I am a
pragmatist, not an idealist. Ideally, the American flag should not be held
as an icon. Even the Fundamentalist Bible says "no other Gods before me"
and I admit that to many, the American flag is like a God. Ideally, this
probably shouldn't be so, but pragmatically speaking, many in the US
revere the flag and to burn what is sacred to them makes them so angry
that they won't even listen to anything else you're saying. So I'd like to
encourage the most radical among you to try a little pragmatism for a change.
'Nuff said. This is all I'm saying on the subject.
(Disclaimer: all this is IMHO-No flames or personal attacks,please).

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 92 10:38:40 EDT
From: Sarah R <SRICH@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Anagrams please

AAARRRGGGHHH, I accidentally deleted the post with the wonderful anagrams
for GHWB, the Repub. Convention, etc.  Please, please, whoever posted that,
send it to me!  Many thanks.

Sarah  /  srich@vtvm1.cc.vt.edu  /  srich@vtvm1.bitnet  /  no clever sig.

------------------------------

Date: Friday, 21 August 92 09:45:23 CST
From: LLRLF%UTXDP.BITNET@utxvm.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Greg Louganis

I need help.  CAn anyone out there verify that Greg Louganis has been in
any films other than "Dirty Laundry"?  I read in TV Guide that he was
co-starring in a thriller called "Deadly Obsession" (I think that was the
title) with ex-porn actress Traci Lords about an obsessed fan stalking a
soap opera star. I don't remember hearing anything else about the film.

Richard Foster

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 10:45:55 EDT
From: Catherine Moroney <moroney@oldkat.physics.utoronto.ca>
Subject: gabriel's story

Gabriel:  Thought I'd post this publically to let you know that I have made
my run-through the story and have mailed it back to you complete with
comments.  (be warned!)  Please let me know if you don't get it.
Catherine

------------------------------

Date: 21 Aug 1992 10:56:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: politics on ..
From: An Anonymous Sender

>From: jsol@Athena.MIT.EDU
>Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 15:17:41 -0400
>Subject: politics on gaynet
>
>Gaynet has a lot of diverse politics. I'm a conservative republican

A conservative republican.  I used to think I knew what that ment, I'm not
so sure anymore.  There was a time when it ment keeping government out of
the lives of people as much as possible while still providing guidance,
leadership and assistance toward acheiving the American Dream.  I do not
know *your* personal meaning, but government interference in personal
decisions such as abortion, voluntary military service and who I do or
don't committ consenting sodomy with is not *my* idea of reduced government
interference.

>One reason I went into therapy isa to learn that my relatives have been
>in powert for the last 10 years....

I missed the point of this paragraph, sorry. :)

>now, I heard Buchannan's speech too, and felt that (as a conservative) I can
>see why he said Homosexuals don't need rights (other than the ones already
>prrovided in the constitution and bill of rights)..

Wait a minute.  Women had to have an ammendment added to get the *right* to
vote, people of colour needed one to keep from being _owned_.  Don't tell
me that LBGs have constitutional rights because we've already seen that
that line of thinking is crooked.  I think you would find there would be
fewer ammendments if everyone was given their "rights" to begin with.

>Homosexuality is a church concern, not one for state. if you ask for
>more rights you will interfere with the separation between state
>government (or federal) and the church.

Ummm.  Well, this is wierd.  I could use that argument to fight *for*
abortion rights for women.  But thats not the issue here is it?  No one is
asking for _special rights_.  We are asking for protection against
(sometimes violent) discrimination.  We are asking for job security and
protection against biggoted landlords, etc.  I can use your argument
against you my friend.  If *my* sexuality is a moral issue, its an issue
between me and my God(dess).  You and your religion and morality should
have no place preventing me from equal protection under the law in areas
such as work and housing.  This is especially true if the discrimination we
are discussing is a tangent of the seperation of church and state.  Please
refrain from using this argument too often, I get really fired up about it.

>you can't get the state to bar
>the roman catholic chburch because of the bill of rights requiring the
>separation of church and state.

Ah, but the government can decide what a *real* religion is, can't it?
Very interesting.

>best wishes to the campaiggn and whoever wins I hope they are a winner.

If you are gay, and if you vote for Bush, don't complain *ever* about the
lack of AIDS funding, about good soldiers getting discharged, about losing
your job because somone somewhere doesn't think what you do in your bedroom
is your own business.  Vote for Calvin and Hobbes, vote for Bill and Al,
vote for someone who will continue to preserve and protect individual
rights in the USA.

Please don't flame me, that wasn't my intent here.  Respectable comments
are welcome.   ;)

PS. to Loren, I don't think flag burning is effective either.
PS. to Tim, I agree that freedom of expression is molto
important..but..flag burning isn't always the most effective way to go.
"I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is.  I
only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that
differentiate me from a doormat, or a prostitute."   -Rebecca West, 1913

------------------------------

Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 92 10:54:19 EDT
From: CLDIXO01@UKCC.uky.edu
Subject:      Re: GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 639

Can you please take me off of GAYNET.  I don't know how to reply to the subscri
ption.  I want to stay on SAPPHO.  THANKS. Carol

------------------------------

Date: 21 Aug 1992 10:15:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: TVICK@carleton.edu
Subject: Re: GayNet Digest Volume 5 Issue 643
Mime-Version: 1.0

There's been quite a bit of discussion about the Boy Scouts' policy on
gays in (or not in) scouting, but what about the Girl Scouts?  What are
their policies reagarding lesbians as either scouts or leaders?
thanks, tim vick

------------------------------

Date: Friday, 21 August 92 10:22:47 CST
From: LLRLF%UTXDP.BITNET@utxvm.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Greg Louganis

Well, everyone is asking me what I've heard Greg's nickname is (I don't
know whether or not this is true), but it's Greg LOOSEANUS (pardon my language,
 girls!).  I hope this satisfies everyone's curiosity.
To the woman who didn't know what *NELLIE* meant: Webster's states it being
a slang word meaning a 'fussily effeminate male' (which was considered
offensive, and may be still).

Richard Foster
UT Austin

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 08:38:32 -0800
From: b_blumberg@macsch.com (Bryan J. Blumberg)
Subject: THE LIVING END: NuArt Theatre Sat 8/22 -- NOT!!!

>Subject: THE LIVING END: NuArt Theatre Sat 8/22
>Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 01:51:31 -0400
>From: Ron Buckmire <buckmr>
>
>
>Well, if anyone is interested, I'm trying to get a bunch of people together
>to go see the new ``irresponsible movie by Gregg Araki'' called THE LIVING
>END at the NuArt theatre on Saturday night/afternoon.

No!  Ron!  We just discussed this 2 hours ago and I thought you wrote it
down!

The Living End is playing at the NUWILSHIRE, not the NuArt.  (It's also
playing at the Cineplex Odeon Showcase on Melrose and La Brea.)

Ron, Dean, Guy and I are planning on going to the NuWilshire performance at
7:40 p.m. on Saturday, August 22, 1992.  We'd love to have more net people
there.

The NuWilshire is located at 1314 Wilshire Boulevard in Santa Monica
California.  Take the Santa Monica Freeway (Interstate 10) west to
Cloverfield.  North on Cloverfield to Wilshire.  Left on Wilshire,
then seven blocks.


========================================
Bryan  J. Blumberg, The MacNeal-Schwendler Corporation
815 Colorado Boulevard, Los Angeles, California  90041-1777
(213) 259-4914, B_BLUMBERG@MACSCH.COM

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 10:58:21 EST
From: ALBRIGH@ucs.indiana.edu
Subject: MARY FISHER'S SPEECH

I've been asked to post Mary Fisher's speech on the net, so here goes:

                  Text Of Mary Fisher's Speech to
                  the Republican Convention on
                  Aug. 19, 1992:
                                ---
                   Thank you.
                   Less than three months ago, at
               platform hearings in Salt Lake City, I
               asked the Republican Party to lift the
               shroud of silence which has been draped
               over the issue of HIV/AIDS. I have come
               tonight to bring our silence to an end.
                   I bear a message of challenge, not
               self-congratulation. I want your
               attention, not your applause.
                   I would never have asked to be
               HIV-positive. But I believe that in all
               things there is a purpose, and I stand
               before you, and before the nation,
               gladly.
                   The reality of AIDS is brutally
               clear. Two-hundred thousand Americans
               are dead or dying; a million more are
               infected. Worldwide, 40 million, or 60
               million, or a 100 million infections
               will be counted in the coming few
               years.
                   But despite science and research,
               White House meetings and congressional
               hearings; despite good intentions and
               bold initiatives, campaign slogans and
               hopeful promises - despite it all, it's
               the epidemic which is winning tonight.
                   In the context of an election year,
               I ask you - here, in this great hall,
               or listening in the quiet of your home
               - to recognize that the AIDS virus is
               not a political creature.
                   It does not care whether you are
               Democrat or Republican. It does not ask
               whether you are black or white, male or
               female, gay or straight, young or old.
                   Tonight, I represent an AIDS
               community whose members have been
               reluctantly drafted from every segment
               of American society.
                   Though I am white, and a mother, I
               am one with a black infant struggling
               with tubes in a Philadelphia hospital.
                   Though I am female, and contracted
               this disease in marriage, and enjoy the
               warm support of my family, I am one
               with the lonely gay man sheltering a
               flickering candle from the cold wind of
               his family's rejection.
                   This is not a distant threat; it is
               a present danger. The rate of infection
               is increasing fastest among women and
               children. Largely unknown a decade ago,
               AIDS is the third leading killer of
               young-adult Americans today - but it
               won't be third for long.
                   Because, unlike other diseases,
               this one travels. Adolescents don't
               give each other cancer or heart disease
               because they believe they are in love.
               But HIV is different. And we have
               helped it along - we have killed each
               other - with our ignorance, our
               prejudice, and our silence.
                   We may take refuge in our
               stereotypes, but we cannot hide there
               long. Because HIV asks only one thing
               of those it attacks: Are you human? And
               this is the right question: Are you
               human?
                   Because people with HIV have not
               entered some alien state of being. They
               are human. They have not earned cruelty
               and they do not deserve meanness. They
               don't benefit from being isolated or
               treated as outcasts.
                   Each of them is exactly what God
               made: a person. Not evil, deserving of
               our judgment; not victims, longing for
               our pity. People. Ready for support and
               worthy of compassion.
                   My call to you, my party, is to
               take a public stand no less
               compassionate than that of the
               president and Mrs. Bush. They have
               embraced me and my family in memorable
               ways. In the place of judgment, they
               have shown affection. In difficult
               moments, they have raised our spirits.
               In the darkest hours, I have seen them
               reaching not only to me, but also to my
               parents, armed with that stunning grief
               and special grace that comes only to
               parents who have themselves leaned too
               long over the bedside of a dying child.
                   With the president's leadership,
               much good has been done; much of the
               good has gone unheralded; as the
               president has insisted, ''Much remains
               to be done.'' But we do the president's
               cause no good if we praise the American
               family but ignore a virus that destroys
               it. We must be consistent if we are to
               be believed. We cannot love justice and
               ignore prejudice, love our children and
               fear to teach them. Whatever our role,
               as parent or policy maker, we must act
               as eloquently as we speak - else we
               have no integrity.
                   My call to the nation is a plea for
               awareness. If you believe you are safe,
               you are in danger. Because I was not
               hemophiliac, I was not at risk. Because
               I was not gay, I was not at risk.
               Because I did not inject drugs, I was
               not at risk.
                   My father has devoted much of his
               lifetime to guarding against another
               holocaust.
                   He is part of the generation who
               heard Pastor Niemoeller come out of the
               Nazi death camps to say, ''They came
               after the Jews and I was not a Jew, so
               I did not protest. They came after the
               trade unionists, and I was not a trade
               unionist, so I did not protest. They
               came after the Roman Catholics, and I
               was not a Roman Catholic, so I did not
               protest. Then they came after me, and
               there was no one left to protest.''
                   The lesson history teaches is this:
               If you believe you are safe, you are at
               risk. If you do not see this killer
               stalking your children, look again.
               There is no family or community, no
               race or religion, no place left in
               America that is safe.
                   Until we genuinely embrace this
               message, we are a nation at risk.
                   Tonight, HIV marches resolutely
               toward AIDS in more than a million
               American homes, littering its pathway
               with the bodies of the young. Young
               men. Young women. Young parents. Young
               children. One of the families is mine.
                   If it is true that HIV inevitably
               turns to AIDS, then my children will
               inevitably turn to orphans.
                   My family has been a rock of
               support. My 84-year-old father, who has
               pursued the healing of the nations,
               will not accept the premise that he
               cannot heal his daughter.
                   My mother refuses to be broken; she
               still calls at midnight to tell
               wonderful jokes that make me laugh.
               Sisters and friends, and my brother
               Phillip (whose birthday is today) - all
               have helped carry me over the hardest
               places. I am blessed, richly and deeply
               blessed, to have such a family.
                   But not all of you have been so
               blessed. You are HIV-positive but dare
               not say it. You have lost loved ones,
               but you dared not whisper the word
               AIDS. You weep silently; you grieve
               alone.
                   I have a message for you: It is not
               you who should feel shame, it is we. We
               who tolerate ignorance and practice
               prejudice, we who have taught you to
               fear. We must lift our shroud of
               silence, making it safe for you to
               reach out for compassion.
                   It is our task to seek safety for
               our children, not in quiet denial but
               in effective action. Some day our
               children will be grown. My son Max, now
               4, will take the measure of his mother;
               my son Zachary, now 2, will sort
               through his memories.
                   I may not be here to hear their
               judgments, but I know already what I
               hope they are.
                   I want my children to know that
               their mother was not a victim. She was
               a messenger. I do not want them to
               think, as I once did, that courage is
               the absence of fear. I want them to
               know that courage is the strength to
               act wisely when most we are afraid. I
               want them to have the courage to step
               forward when called by their nation, or
               their party, and give leadership - no
               matter what the personal cost.
                   I ask no more of you than I ask of
               myself, or of my children.
                   To the millions of you who are
               grieving, who are frightened, who have
               suffered the ravages of AIDS firsthand:
               have courage and you will find comfort.
               To the millions who are strong, I issue
               the plea: Set aside prejudice and
               politics to make room for compassion
               and sound policy.
                   To my children, I make this pledge:
               I will not give in, Zachary, because I
               draw my courage from you. Your silly
               giggle gives me hope. Your gentle
               prayers give me strength. And you, my
               child, give me reason to say to
               America, ''You are at risk.'' And I
               will not rest, Max, until I have done
               all I can to make your world safe. I
               will seek a place where intimacy is not
               the prelude to suffering.
                   I will not hurry to leave you, my
               children. But when I go, I pray that
               you will not suffer shame on my
               account. To all within the sound of my
               voice, I appeal: Learn with me the
               lessons of history and of grace, so my
               children will not be afraid to say the
               word AIDS when I am gone. Then their
               children, and yours may not need to
               whisper it at all.
                   God bless the children. God bless
               us all - and good night.


End of Mary Fisher's speech.

------------------------------

End of GayNet Digest
********************
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