HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:20:33 EST
From:         Henry Kucera <HENRY@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Proper Names for Czech and Slovak Republics

>Posted on 25 Jan 1993 at 17:53:27 by Bill Diamond
>
>Proper Names for Czech and Slovak Republics
>
>Ahoj!
>I've learnt the Clinton Administration is using the terms "Cechen" and
>"Slovenija" for Bohemia/Moravia and Slovakia respectively.
>
>Cechen, alone, is pretty dubious - It seems derivative of the german
>Tschechei; but I cannot fathom Slovenija for Slovakia.  This seems to
>be rather embarrasing, on the whole.
>
>What are the official international postal names for these two
>countries?  I'm more than happy to ensure the information will be
>provided to the new administration through friends on the transition team.
>
>Thanks so much,
>Bill

You must be kidding. Even if Bill (Clinton, that is) does not know, Hilary
should.

All the best from Chris Columbus land, H.K.
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:40:11 EST
From:         George Frajkor <gfrajkor@CCS.CARLETON.CA>
Subject:      Re: Report in RFE/RL Mail
              "KUBASKA@UAKOM.CS" at Jan 27, 93 7:24 am

KUBASKA@UAKOM.CS writes:
>
> > |> I think that the calls for civil disobedience ( I
> > |> understand under this term the call for violating constitution and
> > |> law) is already criminal act.
> > |>
> >
> >Unless the law is a "bad law" (see Gandhi and the Indian revolution) or what
> >about the Great October Soc. Revolution . Without those India would still be
> >a British colony and Russia a czarist empire.

> I can not agree with your oppinion. You can not compare the
> situation in pre '18 Russia or British India with Slovak republic.
> Slovak republic has the parliament established by the will of free
> people in free ellection. This parliament is the source of law
> and ANYONE in SR has to act in accord with this law. If anybody
> considers that some law is bad he can express his oppinion in next
> free ellection by voting for those sharing his oppinion.

        I strongly suspect we are arguing semantics and translations
here and I would like to see the original quotation in Slovak.  "Civil
disobedience" has taken on a certain meaning in Western circles which I
do not believe it has elsewhere. And perhaps in the context the
translation should have been something like "anti-constitutional
behavior"  "violating civil laws".
     I accidentally came across a very good example of this the other
day when someone from Slovakia said the results of certain
negotiations were "inconvenient for the Slovak side".
   He was translating in his mind directly from the slovak "nevyhodne
pre Slovakov".    In the context, the translation should have been
"unacceptable to the Slovak side"  (quite a bit stronger than
'inconvenient')  but literally, it is correct.
  Perhaps someone with a better knowledge of the language and the
context in which the statement was made can say whether "civil
disobedience " -- in the Western understanding of it -- is what was meant.


    Jan George Frajkor       _!_
 School of Journalism       __!__
 Carleton University,         |
 Ottawa, Ontario             /^\
 Canada K1S 5B6           /^\   /^\
   -- gfrajkor@ccs.carleton.ca --
  613 788-7404     fax:613 788-5604
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:28:00 EST
From:         TOMAS BLAZEK & RENATA BLAZEKOVA <BLAZEK@MPS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject:      appx to "your information ...."

Ahoj,
Since the postings of the news from RFE/RL have started
in this group I dared to send here the letter expressing
my own personal opinion about reporting from Slovakia.
When I was at home I heard that the staff at the Radio
Free Europe was unbalanced with respect to Czech-Slovak
relationship but I didn't pay attention to that since
I was not a regular listener oh that station. Now when
they became my main source of information it started to
bother me.
I don't know where the filter is but I guess that my personal
reactions are not enough to change this situation. Maybe
if you share the same opinion after some time of regular
postings of their news here, maybe you will have similar
feelings and more voices can do more.
What do you think, Henry ?

Tomas Blazek
blazek@mps.ohio-state.edu
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 09:01:18 EST
From:         Henry Kucera <HENRY@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Proper Names for Czech and Slovak Republic

>Posted on 27 Jan 1993 at 05:44:02 by Francis Rysavy x3292

>>                            . By that time, Mrs. Sverma was a dissident of
>> sorts, although still a Communist. At any rate, she could have explained the
>> proper terminology to him since she spoke some English.
>>
>> I don't want to carp but I am a 1948 dissident, a little earlier than some.
>>
>> Best regards, H.K.
>
>Mrs. Sverma and a dissident ? Vous voulez rire, monsieur. I think that
>Mr.Nabelek in his contribution to Mideur-L of 23rd January 1993 well
>described the role of this lady and her entourage in the fifties.
>
>Kind Regards FRR

Well, I did say "dissident of sorts, although still a Communist." The facts are
that Mrs. Svermova was indeed a Stalinist of the first order in the 40's and
early 50's, but got caught in the Communist party's purges in the 50's, spent
some years in jail, supported Dubcek, and later signed  Charter 77.

So, a bit complex but hardly just a laughing matter.

Regards, H.K.
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 10:26:18 -0500
From:         GEORGE BAUER <BAUER@RCKHRST1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Report in RFE/RL Mail

I thought it was GOOD to resist bad law  during the Communist regime.

Civil disobedience, within rigid limits, is an essential ingredient of
freedom of expression in a democracy.  Isn't it???

george bauer
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:17:13 PST
From:         Norma Rudinsky <rudinskn@CCMAIL.ORST.EDU>
Subject:      apology & free press

          Sorry for burdening everyone's mail with a uuencode message.
          (Our Computer Center is still wondering how it happened.)
          And thanks to Louise Hammer for sending out a readable
          version ("Women ambassadors").
          Since the subject of press coverage has come up again,
          I'll add a remark that occurred to me late last year when
          Jan Szelepczenyi was criticized for his frustration about
          world press coverage (and lack of coverage) of Slovakia.
          There was nothing new in his complaints, because small
          and/or less-known countries have long complained about the
          world press, and the "third-world" bloc in the UN appealed
          for a "world information order" or something similar (I
          remember no details but George Frajkor and Owen Johnson in
          journalism schools must have info).  The African states
          complained that the only news carried in the "first world"
          concerned wild animals, tribal custos, famine, or drought.
          It's a truism that the "first" world translates little but
          the so-called minor languages usually carry the major texts
          of all the major languages.  The advocates of a World
          Information Order were attacked as advocating control of the
          world press, censorship of opinion, etc., which they were
          advocating, but nevertheless the problem is real.  The
          "first world" knows too little about the other countries,
          just as the powerful study the powerless less than vice
          versa, i.e. the servant always knows the master better than
          the master knows the servant, or David studied Goliath more
          than Goliath studied David.

          I don't know the solution either, but I'm sure it does not
          exist in a cavalier dismissal of the problem as attempts to
          censor the press, return to communism, etc, nor does it
          exist in high-minded references to freedom, Voltaire,
          Ghandi, etc.  There are honest differences of opinion and
          customs, as with the extremely stringent laws on libel in
          Britain compared to our more liberal ones.  The knee jerk
          response to anything on civil rights in Slovakia is to call
          it fascism or communism, and some of the
          government releases make this response easy, but that
          response only illustrates the problem.
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:41:17 EST
From:         George Frajkor <gfrajkor@CCS.CARLETON.CA>
Subject:      Re: Proper Names for Czech and Slovak Republics
              Diamond" at Jan 25, 93 1:24 pm

Bill Diamond writes:

> I've learnt the Clinton Administration is using the terms "Cechen" and
> "Slovenija" for Bohemia/Moravia and Slovakia respectively.
>
> Cechen, alone, is pretty dubious - It seems derivative of the german
> Tschechei;

      This guy is a good at picking names as attorney-generals.
I am almost certain Cechen will insult the Czechs but they can speak
for themselves on that.

> but I cannot fathom Slovenija for Slovakia.  This seems to
> be rather embarrasing, on the whole.

       Slovenija is a perfectly proper name for Slovenia.
       Slovensko would be the proper name for Slovakia.

    Slovenska Republika is the name for the Slovak Republic.
  And I will bet you 10 to one
that three quarters of the mail from the West will end up in Slovenia
if it is addressed to the Slovenska Republika.

   We used to complain about being mistaken for Czechs. Now we are
going to be mistaken for Slovenes.  The only answer is a union of
Slovenia and Slovakia under the name "Smith".


    Jan George Frajkor       _!_
 School of Journalism       __!__
 Carleton University,         |
 Ottawa, Ontario             /^\
 Canada K1S 5B6           /^\   /^\
   -- gfrajkor@ccs.carleton.ca --
  613 788-7404     fax:613 788-5604
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:24:59 PST
From:         Bill Diamond <billdi@MICROSOFT.COM>
Subject:      Proper Names for Czech and Slovak Republics

Ahoj!
I've learnt the Clinton Administration is using the terms "Cechen" and
"Slovenija" for Bohemia/Moravia and Slovakia respectively.

Cechen, alone, is pretty dubious - It seems derivative of the german
Tschechei; but I cannot fathom Slovenija for Slovakia.  This seems to
be rather embarrasing, on the whole.

What are the official international postal names for these two
countries?  I'm more than happy to ensure the information will be
provided to the new administration through friends on the transition team.

Thanks so much,
Bill
From: pacek@slee01.srl.ford.com (Tony Pace)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Subject: External Service of Slovak Radio
Date: 25 Jan 1993 14:31:51 GMT
Organization: Ford Motor Company Research Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: slee01.srl.ford.com
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This is an updated cross-posting of articles from
soc.culture.czecho-slovak:648 and rec.radio.shortwave:19295

>SLOVAKIA--Slovak Radio's new external service in Slovak has been heard at
>01:30-02:00 hrs on 5930 and 7345 kHz and at 19:00-19:30 hrs on 9505 and 9580
>kHz. The station is announcing as well an hour long program at 14:00 hrs on
>6055, 7345, and 9505 kHz. (BBC Monitoring)

>The Slovak broadcasts have already started, According to Sweden Calling
>DXers and BBC Monitoring.

>The Slovak external service has been heard at 01:30-02:00 hrs GMT
>on 5930 and 7345 kHz and at 19:00-19:30 hrs on 9505 and 9580 kHz.

>The station is announcing as well an hour long program at 14:00 hrs on 6055,
>7345, and 9505 kHz for Western Europe.
>Slovak Radio is apparently using a different transmitter than the one used
>by Radio Prague on 5930 and 7345 kHz just after the English and just before
>the Spanish Czech broadcasts.

>There are a few minutes of overlap of the two stations making the start of
>the interval signal and the end of the broadcast of Slovak Radio a bit
>difficult to hear.  This broadcast from Slovak Radio was a bit weaker than
>the preceeding and following broadcasts from Radio Prague.

The 01:30 to 02:00 GMT broadcast is audible in North America on 5930 kHz.

The 19:00-19:30 hrs on 9505 and 9580 kHz are not audible in North America.
Some Scandinavian station seems to share the 9505 and 9580 kHz frequencies
with higher transmitter power levels.

The interval signal of Slovak Radio is a 6-note synthesizer tune of
Na Kra'l'ovej holi jasny' ohni'k hori'

>Here in Scandinavia Radio Bratislava is easily heard on AM/MW 1098 kHz, too,
>but this is the domestic service of Slovakian radio.

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Date:         Sun, 24 Jan 1993 22:56:20 EST
From:         Henry Kucera <HENRY@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Let put this in proper perspective

>Posted on 24 Jan 1993 at 21:18:22 by lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKM
>
>Let put this in proper perspective
>
>Date:         Sun, 24 Jan 1993 18:06:41 PST
>Reply-To:     Discussion of Slovak issues <SLOVAK-L@UBVM.BITNET>
>From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
>
>With great amusement I read the posting in Slovak language which ended
>with the infamous "NA STRAZ." The one response that surprised me was
>by Henry Kucera, where he said something like it's no wonder Slovak
>Republic gets bad reputation. I expected George Frajkor and other
>to jump on this--and no one did.
>
>Considering the source of the posting, it has absolutely no reflection
>on the Slovak Republic or the Slovak nation. It has about as much
>relevance as the US Nazi party portrayed in "The Blues Brothers."
>The same would be true if the statements were made by a deranged
>person or a group in Slovakia, as long as it a fringe phenomenon.
>It would be relevant if statements of that sort were made by an
>official, or a by group of significant political power or popularity.
>Thank God, that's not the case.
>
>I am disappointed to see this sort of unfair treatment.
>
>--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)

I realy don't want to get into a detailed argument. But the Na Straz posting
was not exactly totally out of context. Did they not unveil a plague at Tiso's
house in Slovakia? Surely that was not done by a professor of mathematics at
Penn State. The problem is that those things just compound each other. It's
too bad and it may be unfair but the world out there is not very forgiving.

That's all I meant to say by my previous one-sentence posting.

So long, H.K.
From: frysavy@crc.ac.uk (Francis Rysavy x3292)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Subject: Re:      Re: Proper Names for Czech and Slovak Republic
Date: 27 Jan 93 08:37:51 GMT
Reply-To: frysavy@crc.ac.uk (Francis Rysavy x3292)
Organization: MRC Harrow, UK

In article <SLOVAK-L%93012521445242@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>,         Henry Kucera <HENRY@BROWNVM.BITNET> writes:
> >Posted on 25 Jan 1993 at 21:16:46 by GEORGE BAUER
> >Actually, I assume Bill should know.
> >
> >Did he not visit Prague when he was a student in England and after he
> >visited the Soviet Union?
> >
> >george bauer
> 
> Yes, he did, in 1969, I think. And he stayed with Mrs. Sverma (the widow
> of the Communist leader who was killed during the Slovak uprising in '44) and
> her daughter and son-in-law. By that time, Mrs. Sverma was a dissident of
> sorts, although still a Communist. At any rate, she could have explained the
> proper terminology to him since she spoke some English.
> 
> I don't want to carp but I am a 1948 dissident, a little earlier than some.
> 
> Best regards, H.K.

Mrs. Sverma and a dissident ? Vous voulez rire, monsieur. I think that 
Mr.Nabelek in his contribution to Mideur-L of 23rd January 1993 well 
described the role of this lady and her entourage in the fifties.

Kind Regards FRR
From: paco@cs.rice.edu (Paul Havlak)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Subject: Re: apology & free press
Date: 27 Jan 93 00:41:59 GMT
Reply-To: Paul Havlak <paco@cs.rice.edu>
Organization: Center for Research on Parallel Computation


    The problem with the West's coverage of Slovakia and other "small"
countries (as I, a native and lifelong resident of Texas, see it) is
NOT that there is too much information, so that some of it needs to be
censored (or otherwise restricted or sanitized).
    The problem is that there is too little information.  Even a
religious reader of the New York Times will get a narrow and skewed
view of Slovakia.  Local newspapers tend to be worse, and most
Americans rely on 30 minute's worth of television "news" per day,
averaging way below five minutes of international news daily.

    The way for Slovak patriots to rectify this situation is to make
more Slovak news, written by Slovaks, available.  Any chance of
getting Slovak Radio or TV to provide English transcripts for posting
on the net?  Are there any Slovak newspapers that can provide English
translations on the net?  (I doubt that it would hurt circulations.)
    Let's see news.misc.slovak.sme and news.misc.slovak.ta-sr!

Regards,
Paul
--
Paul Havlak			Dept. of Computer Science
Graduate Student		Rice University, Houston TX 77251-1892
PFC/ParaScope projects		(713) 527-8101 x2738 	paco@cs.rice.edu
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From: LODEESENJ@ADMINB.RFERL.ORG (Username was LODEESEN)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Subject: Re: Proper Names for Czech and Slovak Republics
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:35:24 GMT
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I called the State Department and spoke with the Desk Officer who handles
Slovakia.  Her name is Elizabeth Richard.  If there are any questions about
US policy on refering to friendly sovereign states, she will be happy to
explain how that is conducted with relation to Slovakia.  The procedure is
the long-standing one in such cases, of course--the country tells us, we don't
tell them.  There is absolutely no substitution of Slovenia (in any spelling)
for Slovakia (or any variant thereof) authorized for use by USG.  Ms. Richard
would be willing to accept a telephone call from Mr. Blazek on this matter,
I am certain.  Her number is 647-3298.  Calls to the State Department currently
involve frequent delays because of the really titanic amount of restructuring
which is going on in our relations with so many new or newly independent
countries at once and the accompanying requirements for changes in the
assistance required in establishing contacts, educating on existing institu-
tions, etc.
  For my benefit, what was the origin of the impression that there had been a
decision by the new administration to impose a new name?  Did someone
misspeak?  I'm sure some will remember the instance in a Presidential debate
two decades ago in which Yugoslovak and Czechoslovakia were confused.  There
are frequent lapses on TV in which Baltic and Balkan are reversed.  But the
new possibilities created by the sovereignty declaration of Chechenia, formerly
part of the Chechen-Ingush ASSR are staggering.  It will probably happen once
a Sunday.
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 17:05:31 EST
From:         George Frajkor <gfrajkor@CCS.CARLETON.CA>
Subject:      Re: Report in RFE/RL Mail
              Kucera" at Jan 27, 93 7:53 pm

Henry Kucera writes:

> >   He was translating in his mind directly from the slovak "nevyhodne
> >pre Slovakov".    In the context, the translation should have been
> >"unacceptable to the Slovak side"  (quite a bit stronger than
> >'inconvenient')  but literally, it is correct.
> >  Perhaps someone with a better knowledge of the language and the
> >context in which the statement was made can say whether "civil
> >disobedience " -- in the Western understanding of it -- is what was meant.
>
>Actually, neither is correct. "Nevyhodne pre Slovakov" is "disadvantageous for
> the Slovaks" or "detrimental to the Slovaks" in English.

     Right. That is a correct translation, but what I was trying to
get across was the importance of translating meaning rather than
words, which means knowing context as well as having a dictionary.  In
the context of this conversation, what the speaker was trying to say
was that Slovaks could not be expected to accept a deal so
disadvantageous -- and the sense of that did not come through in the
word "inconvenient" .  Poetry translation is the best example of
knowing how to go from meaning to meaning rather than word to word.


    Jan George Frajkor       _!_
 School of Journalism       __!__
 Carleton University,         |
 Ottawa, Ontario             /^\
 Canada K1S 5B6           /^\   /^\
   -- gfrajkor@ccs.carleton.ca --
  613 788-7404     fax:613 788-5604
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:26:07 +0100
From:         Username was LODEESEN <LODEESENJ@ADMINB.RFERL.ORG>
Subject:      News distribution

Paul Havlak is absolutely right that putting information out through media
such as internet does not reduce circulation of the for-sale item.  As a rule,
those items which are very expensive are wanted either for library shelves or
for use which invokes copyright.  On net presentation demonstrates the
suppliers' capabilities and increases demand for his (currently important)
printed product and his (very near-future primary output) service capability.
News is so transient, widely available, and readily distributed that it is no
longer the kind of valuable possession to the write or rewrite team that it
once was.  Anyone wanting to increase circulation should put on the internet
anything he does not want to conceal from his market.  It runs so counter
to some other marketing philosophies that it bothers some, but whether the
image is chumming the fish with bait or whether you prefer the picture of a
Big Top drawing people to the circus, only if you let people know you have
something can you get them interested in buying it.
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