HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ken@nate.UUCP (Ken Gacioch)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: A Test
Date: 15 Dec 92 14:21:35 GMT
Reply-To: nate!ken@cs.rit.edu
Organization: HealthChex, Inc.

In article <1992Dec15.021221@vieux-maitres.fr> jdaumier@vieux-maitres.fr (Jean de Daumier-Smith) writes:
>[...]
> news. This is just a try to testify my operating of posting news.
>[...]
>Jean de Daumier-Smith

Ca marche bien.  Et, c'est 'test', pas 'testify', mais ca ne fait rien.
Tout le monde comprend. Bienvenu a r.o.m.

Ken Gacioch
nate!ken@cs.rit.edu
Rochester, New York, USA 
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Subject: Re: Results of Mega Test #25
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 05:54:00 GMT


>From: Chris Long <clong@romulus.rutgers.edu>
>Message-ID: <Dec.13.04.12.42.1992.5343@romulus.rutgers.edu>
>
>I've received over 100 responses, and they support my belief that this
>is one of the worst questions I've ever seen on such a test (the worst
>was the tetrahedron-pyramid problem that appeared on the SAT).

I totally agree, and it's an interesting parallel.  That question made
it into the SAT because it worked for the majority of smart people, who
missed the more difficult insight that two pairs of sides join in
planes, making the "correct" answer wrong.  But I'd like to point out
that the clear expectation on the SAT math is that all answers can be
derived by incontrovertible and relatively simple insight and logic.
That is *not* the case with a number of "IQ" question types, including
some of the items on the SAT verbal, though I think the ETS does a
creditable job of keeping it clean for most people with a "normal" U.S.
lifestyle.

>Two
>reasons were given much more frequently than the others.  One was the
>intended answer, and the other was the answer I chose (but for a
>different, even better, reason than why I chose it).  Only a few people
>found both "good" reasons, with these equally divided as to which was
>the "best" answer.

I think I have yet to be convinced that any difficult "which one doesn't
belong" type of question isn't going to suffer from this kind of problem
to some degree.   Do you really think you can come up with a clean
one, to which some other Chris Long won't object?  If not, do
you think IQ tests can't have these kinds of items?

>I'll be happy to provide a more detailed analysis

I'd be interested in seeing it, though not on ROM, of course.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: simonich@croatia.eng.hou.compaq.com (Chris Simonich)
Subject: Re: The Cone Problem
Organization: Compaq Computer Corp.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:53:02 GMT

In article <01GSCJ3DIWSY9VWJ1S@ccfvx3.draper.com> skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum) writes:
>
>>From: Chris Simonich <simonich@croatia.eng.hou.compaq.com>
>>Message-ID: <1992Dec10.192529.4392@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com>
>>
>>...
>>paint, the interior surface area must be "painted."  It follows that it
>>would be possible to paint the exterior surface with finite amount of paint.
>>It might take a while, but that's just a minor detail.....
>>
>>Do you agree or disagree?
>
>I agree.  If you can paint the interior all the way to infinity,
>the paint must be infinitely thin.

Well, sort of.....but if the paint is infinitely thin, the volume required
to paint an infinite surface area is 0 liters....so you don't really need
any paint at all....sort of.


--
======================================================
Christopher Simonich        simonich@twisto.compaq.com
Compaq Computer Corp.       [713] 374-1898
From: fsmgs@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (Michael Schmahl [Black-Robe Mage])
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: The Cone Problem
Date: 19 Dec 92 00:58:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: raven.1992Dec19.005852.20898
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Alaska Computer Network

Ken Arromdee writes
] In article <1992Dec10.192529.4392@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com>  
simonich@croatia.eng.hou.compaq.com (Chris Simonich) writes:
] >The cone problem centers around the idea of forming a shape (volume) which
] >has a finite volume, but infinite surface area.  I was once told that you
] >could fill such a volume with paint, but could not paint it.  Well....
] >...
] >Ok, now that we have a mental image of the shape, we could certainly
] >fill it with paint.  However, the surface area on the inside of the cone
] >equals the surface area outside the cone.  Since the cone is filled with
] >paint, the interior surface area must be "painted."  It follows that it
] >would be possible to paint the exterior surface with finite amount of paint.
] >It might take a while, but that's just a minor detail.....
] >...
] >Do you agree or disagree?
] 
] Disagree.
] 
] If a layer of paint has any finite thickness whatsoever, the procedure you
] have given would not be able to paint the interior, since past a certain
] point the cone is narrower than this thickness.
] 
] On the other hand, if a layer of paint has zero thickness, you have indeed
] painted it with a finite amount of paint, and the fallacy is now in the implied
] equivalence between "infinite area" and "needs infinite amount of paint", an
] equivalence that does not hold if layers of paint are zero thickness.
This happens whenever you measure something with the wrong dimension of units.  For  
example, a disc has infinite length, and zero volume, but finite area.  Fractals of  
dimension >1 and <2 have infinite length and zero area, but a number can be used to  
describe their size in length^D units.

One way of thinking of it is to say it requires an infinite area of paint to paint  
the trumpet.  I think it requires a positive finite volume of paint.
--
CONFIG.DAT not found.  Reboot universe?
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: The Mega Test
Date: 12 Dec 92 03:39:35 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1992Dec11.175606.14490@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, Angus Rodgers writes:

> Gasp! I thought I had virtually "cheated", by spending 28+ hours on the
> Mega Test, at a time (July 1985) when I had the "advantage" of being
> unemployed.

I only spent about 20 hours on it myself.  However, I have talked to
at least one person who did in fact spend that much time.  I also
qualified for Prometheus fairly easily; I was just giving an example.
-- 
Chris Long, 265 Old York Rd., Bridgewater, NJ  08807-2618

"S.B., with an I.Q. of 161, failed to complete his course of study,
running away instead with his professor's wife."
H. J. Eysenck, _Know Your Own I.Q._
From: Dave.Aronson@p11.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: midnight/noon AM/PM?
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 08:51:02 -0500

tipley@solo.eng.hou.compaq.com (Roger Tipley) asks:

 RT> We all agree which day the times 23:59:59.9 and 00:00:00.1 belong
 RT> to (the first is obviously P.M. of one day and the second is A.M.
 RT> of the next day).  The argument is about which day the instant of
 RT> midnight (24:00:00.000..) would be associated with.

 RT> The dictionary definition of A.M. and P.M. would lead me to equate
 RT> noon with "M", so it wasn't of much help.  Please help us out.  I
 RT> want to know if I will be accused of subjecting people to a 14 hour
 RT> meeting or a 2 hour meeting by scheduling the meeting from 10-12
 RT> A.M.  I don't necessarily consider the time-of-day algorithm in my
 RT> computer to reflect the right answer either.

Standard usage dictates that noon is 12 PM and midnight is 12 AM.  This makes
some degree of sense if you consider XX:00:00.0 to be part of the hour
consisting of all times XX:YY:YY.Y.  Since, as you note, 00:00:00.1 is certainly
AM, this could easily be considered to extend to 00:00:00.0.  The same logic
applies to make noon PM.

Of course, someone could probably construct equally valid arguments that the
usage should be the other way around.  B-)


Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: dobbs@ast.saic.com (Lynn Dobbs)
Subject: Re: Atheism and Intelligence
Organization: SAIC
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:05:09 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.035846.28440@ncsu.edu> cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA) writes:
>
>Whoa, Matt. Firstly, the triple-quote is by Lynn Dobbs, who, unless I'm badly 
>mistaken, is a 'her'. Secondly, what is touted above as a Judeo-Christian idea 

It has been fun to allow the readers of my posts to make an assumption about my
sex. But my middle name is Bruce. Now the question is -- what new assumptions
will that cause! :-)

Lynn Bruce Dobbs
"Who is John Galt?"
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Atheism and Intelligence
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:26:52 GMT

In article <Bz7ypq.5CB@cs.dal.ca> franklin@ug.cs.dal.ca (Steve Franklin) writes:
>>dobbs@ast.saic.com (Lynn Dobbs) writes:
>>>What we need is a new word to describe a person who doesn't care
>>>it there is a god and wouldn't worship one if it existed. I don't
>>>fear a possible existence of a god, I just don't care. My rather
>>>strong reaction of in-the-face fundamentalists is based solely in
>>>their desire to be in-my-face. Actually, Individualist may be the
>>>correct word!
>   I find this most puzzling... If you knew of the presence of a God and you
>attributed your existance to this entity, how could you ignore an reject
>that which created you? Now only is this naive and childish, but it seems
>exceptionally ungrateful, and narrow sighted. If you were sure there was 
>a God then how could you reject all that you him? I can clearly see you are
>not an individualist, but a secular humanist more appropriately. Your
>concern is solely for the self. 
>   Are you aware how dangerous and vindictive your selfish and blind
>mentality can be to our society? If you reject the hand that feeds you, how
>quick will you be to feed the hand that beckons you? You my friend are a
>Yuppie, and beyond that - a selfish one. I think the fall of western
>civilization will come solely because mankind does not "Do unto others as he
>would have them do unto you." From what you have told me, if you would
>reject the God that made you, would you reject the friend that aids you? You
>disappoint me, and I hope you have left your terminal unattended.

Jeez, Steve, lighten up.  You are assuming that the god you find is
the god everyone else has described.  What if the god is non-sentient?
What if the god really doesn't care if everyone worships it?  What
if the god would prefer people get on with other things, and is
pretty secure about its self-image?  What if the god thinks worship
is uncomfortable and/or foolish?  What if Eleanor Roosevelt could
fly?

This is the kind of thing I find faulty about Pascal's Wager.  It
assumes a lot about the god in question.

BTW, Lynn's terminal is unattended, because I just replaced all
her files with ASCII smiley faces.

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: tipley@solo.eng.hou.compaq.com (Roger Tipley)
Subject: midnight/noon AM/PM?
Organization: Compaq Computer Corp.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 21:36:08 GMT

This question has been bandied about our hall for a few weeks. 
Perhaps this august group could give us a definitive answer.  

We all agree which day the times 23:59:59.9 and 00:00:00.1 belong
to (the first is obviously P.M. of one day and the second is A.M.
of the next day).  The argument is about which day the instant of
midnight (24:00:00.000..) would be associated with.

The dictionary definition of A.M. and P.M. would lead me to equate
noon with "M", so it wasn't of much help.  Please help us out.  I
want to know if I will be accused of subjecting people to a 14 hour
meeting or a 2 hour meeting by scheduling the meeting from 10-12
A.M.  I don't necessarily consider the time-of-day algorithm in my
computer to reflect the right answer either.

Thanks in advance for your replies,

Roger E. Tipley
tipley@twisto.compaq.com

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: crawford@boole.mitre.org (Randy Crawford)
Subject: Re: Atheism and Intelligence
Originator: crawford@boole.mitre.org
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:28:47 GMT


In article <Bz6zz7.3BD@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, ivaliote@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Lotus ) writes:
> crawford@boole.mitre.org (Randy Crawford) writes:
> >(Unattributed) writes:
> >>I tend to think that agnosticism (a word that annoys me even 
> >>to type, for personal reasons) is basically a declaration faith should not 
> >>exist, perhaps does not exist, or whatever.  To be an agnostic is to say, 
> >>in my view, that one can never have faith in anything.  
> >> 
> >>This is something with which I cannot agree.
> 
> >THAT you cannot agree is of no interest to anyone.
>
> Why say that?  How do you knw it is true?  What do you hope to achieve?
> Why not say "it is of no interest to ME." 
> I just kinda found that beligerent, evcen if it is true.

Yes, it was belligerent.  But I don't think I'm alone in my frustration
at hearing someone voice what appears to be more opinion than idea.  The
difference:  an idea has foundation; an opinion does not.  An idea states 
the premises as well as the conclusion; an opinion is just a conclusion.  
The net/world is full of opinions, but badly lacking in ideas.

No offense intended, BTW.

> Anyway...
>
> >Please tell us WHY you cannot agree.
> 
> It is my feeling that there are far too many things which the reason is 
> incapable of conclusively dealing with in any effective way.  Love, eternity,
> right and wrong all disintegrate into relativistic nonsense if reasonnis all 
> that is consulted.  I just tend to think that faith is as necessary as emotion,
> and that, in fact, those who claim no faith or a lack of ability to believe 
> in anything are merely believing in something else less describable and capable
> of being pinned down.
> 
> That's all.

I can handle that.

Although, I think that faith is more a matter of deliberate choice.  Faith 
means to me that someone believes in something because s/he wants to believe.  
A person doesn't need faith when the belief is based in logic or is a matter
of personal experience.  You KNOW the sun will rise tomorrow; you have FAITH
in the existence of a god. 

Faith is necessary only when your head tells you otherwise. 
-- 

| Randy Crawford        crawford@mitre.org        The MITRE Corporation
|                                                 7525 Colshire Dr., MS Z421
| N=1 -> P=NP           703 883-7940              McLean, VA  22102
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: The Mega Test
Date: 12 Dec 92 03:34:40 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1992Dec11.132202.8998@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, Eric Postpischil writes:

> For the fourth time, I request that Chris Long post a copy of the text
> of question 25 of the Mega Test and a description of any pictorial
> information in it.

It's been posted for several days now (on rec.puzzles and crossposted
here).  If your site hasn't gotten it, I'd be happy to forward a copy
to you.  If you've taken the Mega Test, I'd also be happy to forward
you a summary of the responses (I've gotten close to 100).
-- 
Chris Long, 265 Old York Rd., Bridgewater, NJ  08807-2618

"S.B., with an I.Q. of 161, failed to complete his course of study,
running away instead with his professor's wife."
H. J. Eysenck, _Know Your Own I.Q._
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: fsmgs@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (Michael Schmahl [Black-Robe Mage])
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Politics and Intelligence
Date: 19 Dec 92 01:11:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: raven.1992Dec19.011152.21245
Organization: University of Alaska Computer Network

etbeteille@happy.colorado.edu writes
] 
] Please forgive if already covered . . . . 
] 
] 
] If it is generally true that the more "intelligent"
] among us (i.e. university professors, and other 
] alleged leaders of the mind) tend to be more liberal
] politically, would it follow that those who are
] considered extremely intelligent would naturally
] be libertarian?
] 
] I would argue yes, that libertarianism, as expressed
] in American documents such as the Declaration of
] Independence and the Constitution as well as works
] by Thomas Jefferson, takes an acute mind to understand
] and appreciate without deteriorating into the old
] emotional arguments used by both liberals and conser-
] vatives when they are forcing the rest of us to do
] things.
] 
] Comments?

I believe that intelligent people resent government interfering with them when they  
are smart enough to regulate themselves.  I also believe that intellectuals are  
more for freedom of thought and expression, at least for themselves.

But libertarianism is also based on the idea that people in general are intelligent  
enough to govern themselves.  In my experience, I have found that not all  
intelligent people believe this.  I, however, do.  People deserve more credit than  
they are given, by society or themselves.  Intelligence is nothing more than the  
sum total of everything a person does.

I think there is a correlation between intelligence and perception of inteligence.    
Intelligent people tend to associate with intelligent people and so find  
intelligence more easily, and believe in teh intelligence of humanity.  And so  
believe the libertarian philosophy.

So yes, I believe that the natural bent of intelligence is to be libertarian.

--
CONFIG.DAT not found.  Reboot universe?
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Subject: Re: The Mega Test
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:05:00 GMT


>From: Rodney Adams <radams@bnr.ca>
>Message-ID: <1992Dec14.185206.3312@bnr.ca>
>
>In article <1992Dec14.161740.272@bnr.ca> radams@bnr.ca (Rodney Adams) writes:
>>between 850 and 900 (the cutoff for some universities, I believe) or
>          ^------ I realized immediately after I sent this that some of
>                  your terminals may interpret this character as a five.
>                  It's really a nine, of course ;)

Actually, you're not that far off.  Judging by the SAT score conversions
I've seen, the scaled score difference due to one item can be 0, 10, 20,
30, or 40 points.  The most common difference is 10 points, and the
rarest is 40.

The 40-point difference could occur near the top of the test on those
forms that need to stretch the top scores for equating purposes, where
they can have several consecutive 20-point rungs on the ladder.  The
double drop could occur when you answer an item incorrectly, resulting
in 1/4 off the raw score, and it falls such that a correct answer rounds
up the raw score, but a wrong answer does not.  I'm making the
assumption that the ETS computes scaled scores exactly as stated in the
scoring instructions for the released SAT forms.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: johnson@sleipnir.pb.wes.mot.com (Mark Johnson)
Subject: The Snowflake (nee Cone) Problem
Reply-To: johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Wireless Enterprises, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:07:35 GMT

In article <01GSCOWY47SY9VW7ZP@ccfvx3.draper.com>, skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum) writes:
=)
=)>From: Chris Simonich <simonich@croatia.eng.hou.compaq.com>
=)>Message-ID: <1992Dec15.205302.9605@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com>
=)>
=)>In article <01GSCJ3DIWSY9VWJ1S@ccfvx3.draper.com> skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld
=)> Hvatum) writes:
=)>>
=)>>>From: Chris Simonich <simonich@croatia.eng.hou.compaq.com>
=)>>>Message-ID: <1992Dec10.192529.4392@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com>
=)>>>
=)>>>...
=)>>>paint, the interior surface area must be "painted."  It follows that it
=)>>>would be possible to paint the exterior surface with finite amount of paint.
=)>>>It might take a while, but that's just a minor detail.....
=)>>>
=)>>>Do you agree or disagree?
=)>>
=)>>I agree.  If you can paint the interior all the way to infinity,
=)>>the paint must be infinitely thin.
=)>
=)>Well, sort of.....but if the paint is infinitely thin, the volume required
=)>to paint an infinite surface area is 0 liters....so you don't really need
=)>any paint at all....sort of.
=)
=)That's what I had in mind.  But you have to be careful here - your
=)statement is not generally true.  If you were painting a finite surface
=)with an infinitely thin paint, then, yes, your statement would always be
=)true.  But in this case, you're painting an infinite surface.  The
=)convergence of infinity/infinity can be zero, finite, or infinite.  But
=)you're right in this particular case.  In order to be able to paint the
=)inside of the cone, the paint thickness has to vanish quickly enough
=)when you go to infinity to make it thin enough to require no paint
=)volume to cover the entire infinite surface.

Let's make in an interesting problem, like a 3-dimensional fractal (I think
the Swedish Snowflake would be easily extended to 3d using tetrahedrons in
place of the triangles).  This has a finite volume as well as a finite size,
while maintaining an infinite surface area.  The answer is relatively
simple, but more telling than the 1/x "cone".
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Johnson"                              |Just because you're paranoid doesn't|
| johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com |   mean they're not out to get you. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Let's face it; if our lawyers knew what went on here, they'd shut us down.  |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: Ian.Douglas@f119.n7102.z5.fidonet.org (Ian Douglas)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Atheism and Intelligence
Date: 16 Dec 92 09:32:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: catpe.3355.2B30C989
Organization: FidoNet node 5:7102/119 - Zero 2 Infinity, CT

Hi all!

On 14 Dec 92, Steve Franklin wrote to All:

 SF> Your concern is solely for the self. Are you aware how
 SF> dangerous and vindictive your selfish and blind mentality can be to our
 SF> society? If you reject the hand that feeds you, how quick will you be to
 SF> feed the hand that beckons you? You my friend are a Yuppie, and beyond
 SF> that - a selfish one.

Can you please explain what you mean by 'selfish', and what is wrong with being 'selfish'?

Cheers, Ian


--  
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From: sderby@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Stuart P. Derby)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Favorite Beverages
Date: 20 Dec 92 20:41:13 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu

In article <Dec.20.08.30.16.1992.5200@remus.rutgers.edu> clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long) writes:
>
>To get off the other subjects:
>
  At last, a topic I understand!! :-)

Guiness Stout (at "room temperature")
Hot chocolate w/ cheap whiskey
Keifer (a liquid yogurt-like thang)
more-than-ice-cold Stolichnya
Tea, Earl Grey, hot
Tea, Darjeeling, hot
Shiner Bock (beer) (Viva Tejas!)
Carta Blanca (beer) (Corona's for the tourists)
Cold apple-juice

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stuart Derby - sderby@bcm.tmc.edu  |   Anagram of the Year:
Baylor College of Medicine         | Tuesday, November Third <==>
Houston, Texas                     | Many Voted, Bush Retired
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa