From: ianchan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Ian Hin Yun Chan)
Subject: Amps around $1k Compilation
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 23:24:03 GMT

Here's my Compilation of responses on the subject "Amplifiers around $1k."
Basically:
	Parasound power amps are great. They have a lot of juice.
	Between the Parasound PFET900 pre and the Acurus L10, no one knows....
		I may have to try 'em both out myself to find out. But both
		are good.
	Other options are the regular bunch - B&K, Adcom, Carver (?), etc.
My plans: I'm broke now, but I once my parents send me money for next quarter
(ie Jan '93), I'll conduct a home-based trial and settle the preamp question
(Parasound or Acurus) once and for all.
My wish to all: I _hope_ this proves useful!


From image@leland.stanford.edu Tue Sep 29 21:58:29 1992
Full-Name: John B. Mooney

Ian,

I just purchased a used California Audio Labs Icon MkII CD player from a 
person in Iowa.  He had a six month old Acurus L10 for $350.  I can find
his number if you are interested.

Another pre-amp you may want to consider is the Mod Squad Line Drive Deluxe
pre-amp.  This is a passive pre-amp (I believe the L10 is passive as well).  
Passive pre-amps are considered to be the best pre-amp for use with line level
sources (such as cd players.)   However the retail price is $1150.  The Mod
Squad (now, actually McCormack) also makes a regular Line Drive for around
$500.  In my experience, however, the difference between the two is not subtle.
The Deluxe presented a much more focused soundstage, vocalists had much more
of a chest (the sound seemed to eminate from a body cavity rather than simply
a single point in space), and the soundstage depth jumped.

The Deluxe Line Drive is rated a Class A component from Stereophile (a very
prestigous position.)  Shop around -- I found a new Deluxe for $695 with 5 year
warranty.

One last thing.  Because of its passive nature, your source actually drives 
your system.  It is critical that you audition any passive pre-amp with your
cd player. Many CD players simply cannot support the load.  Also,
interconnects must be kept short. 

Hope this helps,

   -- John

P.S.  If your are living in a dorm, forget all of this and by a Sony boom box!
      I've been strugling for a week now to get a decent soundstage.  

  
From jchrissi@afit.af.mil Tue Sep 29 11:47:01 1992

In rec.audio you write:

>I've been told that the preamp is one of the more important components in a
>system, and I'd like to get some "public opinion" on two around the $500
>price range. They are a) the Acurus L10 (I don't need phono inputs), and b)
>the Parasound something-or-other (has a 700 or 900 in it, I think). What
>would their respective sonic signatures be, and what kind of matching
>power amps should I be looking at?

Some years ago I had a Parasound pre-amp (P200 maybe?).  I thought it
was pretty good - good sound for the very reasonable price.  In fact, it
was my first pre-amp when I went to all separates.  They aren't as well
known as some brands, but do have a good reputation.  I like their newer
power amps a lot.

>I read in a review that the L10 is designed by an ex-Krell engineer, and that
>it uses Krell topology and high quality components, which of course sounds
>irresistable. The Parasound, on the other hand, may be more matched to their
>own power amps, which I am considering because of their high current
>capability (I'm going to get a subwoofer, you see...).
>I would greatly appreciate any comments on the two, as well as suggestions
>of alternatives.

Alternatives?  Adcom, B&K, Belles (are they still around?  It's what I
am using now).

>- Ian
-- 
James W. Chrissis                      |  Right.  No quote.
Air Force Institute of Technology      |  Is there a problem with that?
Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio             |


From eric@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu Tue Sep 29 09:29:41 1992
From: Eric Hansen <eric@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu>

In rec.audio you write:

>I've been told that the preamp is one of the more important components in a
>system, and I'd like to get some "public opinion" on two around the $500
>price range. They are a) the Acurus L10 (I don't need phono inputs), and b)
>the Parasound something-or-other (has a 700 or 900 in it, I think). What
>would their respective sonic signatures be, and what kind of matching
>power amps should I be looking at?
>I read in a review that the L10 is designed by an ex-Krell engineer, and that
>it uses Krell topology and high quality components, which of course sounds
>irresistable. The Parasound, on the other hand, may be more matched to their
>own power amps, which I am considering because of their high current
>capability (I'm going to get a subwoofer, you see...).
>I would greatly appreciate any comments on the two, as well as suggestions
>of alternatives.

I think that the Parasound equipment is designed by John Curl, who also
designs for one of the high-end companies... either Krell or Threshold, I
think.  I've listened to the L10, and it is a good sounding (and nice
looking) preamp.  I auditioned it with the Aragon 24k which costs more than
twice what the Acurus does.  I don't recall any startling differences.  

If you use more than one source, you might consider both passive and active
preamps.  If you only use CD (like me), you might be able to get away with
driving the amp directly with variable outputs on the CD player.  For
passive preamps, consider the Sonograph (which is made by Conrad Johnson) --
I think it's around $400.  Also, the Adcom GFA 565 is reputably an excellent
preamp (active) around the $600 range.

Try posting a message to rec.audio.high-end and list all of your current
equipment.  You will get a smaller number of responses, but they will
probably be more what you're looking for.

- Eric


From kenyee@ksr.com Tue Sep 29 09:15:51 1992
From: kenyee@ksr.com (Ken Yee)

In rec.audio article <1992Sep28.191003.26006@leland.Stanford.EDU> you wrote:
> irresistable. The Parasound, on the other hand, may be more matched to their
> own power amps, which I am considering because of their high current
> capability (I'm going to get a subwoofer, you see...).
    let me know what other replies you get.
    Parasound is also coming out with a balanced preamp for $600 in January.
    I'm waiting to get it with a Parasound 2200 (just in case they make some changes
    to the 2200 to make it work better with the preamp).

 ken


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Date: 28 September 1992 20:17:15 CDT
To: <IANCHAN@leland.stanford.edu>
Subject: preamplifiers
Status: OR

Concerning your request for opinoins about preamplfiers.  Have you
concidered any Carver preamplifiers?  I believe they offer an impressive
sound for a very good value.  I have recently purchased a Carver CT-6
preamplfier/tuner for $475.  Pairing that up with a Carver Magnetic
Field Power Amplifier (simultaneous high voltage high current) has
resulted in some of the finest sound  I have ever heard! No joke! I
really think you should give Carver a chance.  They have many preamps
for many different setups (some with some without tuners).  I think you
will be impressed.  I would be most interested to here what you think on
the other preamps you have listened to and in what your final decison
is.  tom


From YKWON%SLACVM.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu Mon Sep 28 12:44:29 1992
From: "Youngjoon Kwon     (415)926-2761"             <YKWON%SLACVM.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu>

Hello!
I am also interested in Acurus components...
Actually, I've heard it once in San Francisco at Performance Audio.
The preamp was matched with Acurus power amp (don't know the model number)
and the source was NAD 5000 cd player driving Definitive Technology BP10
speakers. Listening to Mozart symphony, the soundstage was awesome.
Unfortunately, I didn't do much of extended listening so I cannot tell
any more.
If you gather some information from others on Acurus components, could
you send me a summary, too?
Thank you very much.  -Youngjoon

PS: BTW, there is a review in Audio magazine (I think it is September, 92)
    on Acurus L10 preamp.


From kester@mat.mte.ncsu.edu Fri Oct  2 06:37:09 1992
From: kester@mat.mte.ncsu.edu (Dan Kester)

In your posting you write:
>I'm interested in upgrading my integrated Arcam Delta60 to a pre and power
>combination for roundabout $1k.
>
>

No specific advice, but the Audio critic generally is into specs only, and not
sound.  Once you get to the price you're interested in, you need to consider
how it actually sounds.  Try B&K and Rotel.  Both are good, and competitive
with Acurus.  Try and find a good high end dealer where you can listen to
several brands.  


From eric@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu Fri Oct  2 07:06:30 1992
From: Eric Hansen <eric@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu>

In rec.audio.high-end you write:
>combination for roundabout $1k. A preamp that's caught my eye is the Acurus
>L10 (which The Audio Critic rated as #1 in their review of <$800 preamps).
>However, the reasons for for their choice seemed to be build quality and
>lab measurements, rather than listening tests. Sure those qualities are
>important, but I would feel more comfortable knowing how it _actually sounds_.
>Has anyone tried these things and would like to share their experiences?

There was an article (review) of the L10 in Audio a month or two back.  They
called it "musically satisfying".  I can get the issue #/month for you if
you want (and I'll even photocopy and mail the article if you *really*
want).  I auditioned the L10 a while back, comparing it with the Aragon 24k
and a Classe (big$$$) preamp.  For under 1k, though, you're going to have
to look long and hard to get a power+pre combo that is decent.  Not that
they don't exist...  I have heard alot about the Parasound, but have never
atually listened to them.  You might also consider Adcom, BK and Hafler.  I
think that all these brands are pretty reputable, but I don't know how much
of an improvement they'd make over your Arcam.

If you're interested, I'm selling my SAE a205 power amp for $300, and my
Proton P1100 preamp for $150.  You probably want something better than the
Proton (i.e., Acurus), but you might think about something with similar
qualitites as my SAE amp.  I posted a message about it to misc.forsale and
rec.audio a few days ago, but let me know if you want me to mail you the
posting.

Good luck....


- Eric

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Eric J. Hansen                            Center for Clinical Computing   |
|  eric@binoc.bih.harvard.edu              350 Longwood Avenue, Boston, MA  |
|  eric@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu                (617) 732-5925          |
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------*


From nau@ssesco.com Fri Oct  2 10:04:21 1992

I don't claim to know much about the other componets you mentioned but
I am also in the market for an amplifier.  The parasound is one of the
better ones I've heard.  I've been dragging around my 200wpc Denon to
compare the amps with.  The parasound (model 1200) sounded very good.
I'm gonig to see if I can take one home for a few days.  Halfler was
in the ballpark with the Denon.  Bryston turned out to be just too much
$$$$ for the power.  nice amp tho.  I'm going to try to listen to a
B&K 202 (you may want the 140).  I've heard tremendous things about
the 140 and have high hopes for it.

In other words, I like the Parasound and I recommend you listen to a
B&K.  Let me know if you run across any other good amps in the price
range (haven't seen Arcam around here)


From geers@eniac.seas.upenn.edu Fri Oct  2 13:38:49 1992
From: geers@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (GGeers)

I can personally vouch for the sound quality of the Parasound HCA-800II;
I use one to drive Acoustat electrostatics and am quite impressed with
dynamics, bass response, spatiality, and smoothness.  This amp compared
favorably in my system to others costing 2 to 3 times as much.  You can't
go wrong with this one, especially at the price.  


From yen@stsci.edu Sat Oct  3 19:03:36 1992
From: Felix Yen <yen@stsci.edu>

i'm very interested in what you're doing.  you see i bought my Legacy
Satellites about a year ago and auditioned amplification around then
as well.  for various reasons, most notably availability and price,
my wife and i auditioned separates by NAD (pre-amp) and Rotel (amp),
a Creek 4140s2, and the now-discontinued Creek 5050.  the 5050 walked
away from the rest which was no surprise given that its list price
was about twice as much as the others.  (my 5050 was a demo unit so
it wasn't that much more.)  the separates gave me excellent dynamics,
but no image whereas the 4140s2 gave me a nice image but a weak top
and bottom.  the 5050 gives me everything.

i could refer you to my dealer (mail-order) who also sells the Acurus
L10 as well as the Mod Squad Line Drive.  i feel that he's given me
*excellent* advice.  i might also suggest that you consider the Creek
6060 ($1050).  also, it's conceivable that my dealer would buy your
Arcam but you wouldn't get much.  (my last price list has a blemished
demo unit for $350.)

which subwoofer are you thinking about and how much does it cost?
as i said earlier, i'm very interested in what you're doing because
i'm wondering how much better things would sound with a quality sub-
woofer.


Felix


From yen@stsci.edu Mon Oct  5 08:57:24 1992
From: Felix Yen <yen@stsci.edu>

re: The Cable Co.  i've done business with them and i like his advice
too.  still, it's not like there's such a thing as an impartial dealer.

my dealer also gives free trials (you pay return shipping of course).
i don't have the stats in front of me, but i'm pretty sure the 6060
is a "high-current" design.  its predecessor the 5050 certainly is
and i appreciate your qualms about the integrated amp architecture
and the needs of two 10" drivers.  i'll try to remember to type in
the 5050's current-output stat tomorrow after i come back from holiday.

i'm going to do you a tremendous favor because i happen to be in a
fabulous mood today.  call my dealer and tell him Felix from Baltimore
sent you.  please mention that i'm extremely happy with the That's
ASIV (metal) tapes he sold me.  (i realize that my CD player's pretty
weak, but my tapes sound virtually identical to their CD masters with
no NR but with HX-Pro.  and i only paid him $350 for the tape deck!
i'm not even sure if i can hear a difference and i forced one guy to
be a single-blind test subject and he couldn't tell.)

anyway, tell him your situation.  don't say a lot.  just say that you're
thinking about the L10 and see what he has to say.  knowing him and the
quality of Bob Stein's advice, Vladimir will probably recommend something
else, maybe even the 6060.  if he doesn't mention the 6060, you might
want to bring it up.  (i'm even tempted to call him and mention it since
if it works for you, the 5050 will probably work for me and i just might
be willing to pay $500 for better sound.)

i think you'll find his terms extremely attractive.  here's the wrap-up:

	NorthCountry Audio (they answer the phone: "Cadence/NorthCountry")
	(315) 287 2852 (mon-fri: 930-530, sat: 10-12)
	ask for Vladimir (actually, NorthCountry's his and he's the only
		one who does this sort of counseling)

re: subwoofer price.  how did you get that $45 discount?


Felix


From @freezer.cns.udel.edu:bower@cns.udel.edu Tue Oct  6 01:26:53 1992
From: Tyson Bower <bower@freezer.cns.udel.edu>

I'm not sure how helpful this will be to you, but I once compiled a list
of power amps for the $800 price range.  This is slightly less than
the $1k limit you mentioned, but still pretty close.

I have not listened to most of these pieces.  The specs are all taken
from the manufactuer.  I found the listing in Stereo Review, and weeded
out the ones which fit the criteria in which I was interested (~$800,
fairly high power output).

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adcom GFA-555II 200-W/ch Amplifier                  $799 

1-ohm stability. Features low-negative feedback
design; constant damping factor; toroidal transformer;
direct coupling.  200 W/ch into 8 ohms or
350 W/ch into 4 ohms; FR 20-20,000 Hz; THD
0.04%; IM 0.05% 

Carver TFM-25 225-W/ch Amplifier                    $670

Magnetic-field amp with transfer-function
calibration.  Features 2-ohm stability, analog
power meters.  225 W x 2 into 8 ohms, 350 x 2
into 4 ohms, or 350 x 1 bridged; THD 0.5%; slew
rate 180 V/us; input imp 100 kiloohms. 20 lbs.

Denon POA-2800 200-W/ch Amplifier                   $800

Features MOSFET Class A circuitry; dual power
supplies with toroidal transformers; RCA inputs.
Remote power switching from Denon preamps;
A/B speaker switching. 200 W x 2 into 8 ohms from
20-20,000 Hz with 0.01% THD or 300 x 2 into 4
ohms; FR 1-150,000 Hz at 1 W; THD 0.002% at -3
dB; S/N 123 dBA.

Harmon Kardon Citation22 200-W/ch Amplifier       $1,149

Dual-mono bridgeable design.  Features discrete
circuitry; 110-ampere (!) high-current capability.
200 W x 2.

Jeff Rowland Model 8 200-W/ch Amplifier           $7,500

Solid-state design. Features direct-coupled
circuit topology; fully-balanced differential
circuitry from input to output; remote AC power
switching; chassis components machined from solid
aluminum; switchable balanced/unbalanced inputs,
26- or 32-dB gain, absolute phase, input
imp, and input muting.  200 W x 2 into 8 ohms, 400
x 2 cont avg into 4 ohms, or 700 W x 2 into 2 ohms;
FR 0.1-160,000 Hz +0, -3 dB; THD 0.01% at 1,000
Hz, 50 W; slew rate 50 V/us; damping factor 300
from 20-20,000 Hz. 17.5 x 11.375 x 22 in; 125 lb.

Soundcraftsmen Pro-Power Four 205-W/ch Amplifier    $849

MOSFET design with dual 20-segment LED clipping
indicators and speaker switching for 2 speaker
pairs. 205 W x 2 cont avg into 8 ohms with 0.05%
THD, 300 x 2 into 4 ohms, or 450 x 2 into 2 ohms;
S/N 105 dB; slew rate 40 V/us; IM 0.05%. 
19 x 5.25 x 11 in; 28 lb.

Soundcraftsmen PCR800 205-W/ch Amplifier            $499

Phase-control-regulated MOSFET amp. 205 W x 2
cont avg into 8 ohms; THD 0.05%; S/N 105 dB.
8.25 x 5 x 12 in; 18 lb.
Pro-Power. As above, 300 W x 2 into 4 ohms or
450 x 2 into 2 ohms.  $579

NAD Model 2400THX 100-W/ch Amplifier                $599

Bridgeable amplifier with power-envelope
circuitry. Features soft-clipping circuit; input
level controls. 100 W x 2 cont avg; dynamic
headroom 5.7 dB. Rack mountable.

Onkyo Integra M-502 140-W/ch Amplifier              $650

Dual-mono design with low-imp drive capability.
Features 4-way speaker selector. 140 W x 2 cont
avg into 8 ohms; dynamic power 290 W x 2 into 4 
ohms or 425 x 2 into 2 ohms; THD 0.005%; S/N 120
dB; IM 0.004%; damping factor 140. 17.125 x 7.25 x
16.625 in; 41 lb.

Parasound HCA-1200 200-W/ch Amplifier               $775

High-current discrete amplifier. Features toroidal
transformer; 60-MHz output transistor; 57-
ampere peak current; FET driver; mono BTL
switchable; 5-way terminals; gold-plated input
jacks; front-panel level controls. FR 8-90,000 Hz;
THD 0.08%

Sumo Polaris II 120-W/ch Amplifier                  $799

Class AB MOSFET design. Features proprietary
MOSFET circuitry; pure Class A gain stage. 350 W
x 1 bridged into 8 ohms; 50 amperes peak/ch; THD
0.05% into 8 ohms, 0.1% into 4 ohms; IM 0.05%;
rise time 2us; damping factor 500. 19 x 5.25 x 10 in;
35 lb.

Yamaha MX-830 170-W/ch Amplifier                    $699

Features hyperbolic conversion amplification
power circuitry; A/B/C speaker switching; independent
left and right level controls; clipping indicators;
banana-plug compatible. 170 W x 2 into 8 ohms
or 600 W into 1 ohm; THD 0.003%. Black finish.

         
                                                 -Ty


From fred@mtl.mit.edu Tue Oct  6 07:23:12 1992
From: fred trusell <fred@mtl.mit.edu>

I have the Parasound PFET 900 preamp and a DAS1000 Amp(a few years old now,
but I have had it for only a little over a year.)  I read many reviews on the
preamp from all over the planet, and ALL were very favorable in regards to
topology, lab measurements, and listening opinions.  The PFET 900II is only
slightly altered, apparently by John Curl who redisigned their largest amp
now called 2200(A F____in' beast with serious current output and high-end
sound according to several reviewers)  It can be had for about $1200 and will
never leave you wanting for juice.  One review said that one slip with the
tonearm is completely lethal to woofers.  I really like the flexibility of
the preamp in regards to listening, recording, variable loudness and defeatabletone controls, without compromising the sound with a long signal path. (CMOS
switching)  Sorry for any typos,..'typing with gloves on..Cheers.
Fred


From amigo@u.washington.edu Wed Oct  7 17:14:29 1992
From: The Friend <amigo@u.washington.edu>

In rec.audio.high-end you write:

>I'm also considering a setup consisting of Parasound equipment (FET900 pre and
>800MkII power, going for $792). They are attractive because the speakers I
>use (Legacy Satellites + soon-to-be Subs) use Parasound amps in their design
>process. However, I've never read a review on them, so I need input from the
>net.
>Of couse, if you've got other great suggestions, don't hesitate to inform me!
>Thanks in advance,
>- Ian
<

	I bought a Parasound HCA1200, which is comparable to a Adcom 555II,
but with considerably more horsepower (current is 45 amps RMS). Its been
a great amp, sounds very clean, detailed and never shows any sign of weakness.
I'm driving a pair of home-brew electrostats with it, and they draw every
bit of current they can get typically.. especially on female vocals and any
frequencies in the upper end - by natural laws, AC has considerable amounts
of current the higher the frequency.
	 I really like the amplifier - though
its manual states 4 ohm is the minimum RMS speaker impedence, I called
the tech dept. at Parasound to clear up why only 4 ohms min. when its such
a high-current design.. they basically said it was the fact it was heavy
Class-A biased, meaning it gets warm even at idle. They said it'd do 2 ohms
no problem with fan cooling, so I bought a 4" fan to keep it cool just to 
play it safe.. it has thermal protection as well as overload protection, but
its better not to run it into thermal overload anyhow. The tech staff also
mentioned it was very similar to the upper-end model HCA2200, but with
slightly less current, and one 1 KV transformer instead of 2. Course I noted
over the summer it cooked considerably - hence the fan as the solution,
which works great anyhow.
	My friend has a HCA-500II, which he raves about. I purchased mine
after hearing/using his amplifier awhile to see what it could do/couldn't do.
Basically I was fairly impressed with how well it could drive tough, power
hungry loads like electrostats, but of course 50 W/ch isn't near enough to
do real justification (gets you around 96 dB max output). In contrast, I use
a Proton AA-1150 (50w/ch, 250w peak) to drive a pair of subs, and the HCA500II
wasn't near as powerful, but the Proton has considerable dynamic headroom -
7 dB vs. the HCA500II's 2 dB.
	None of the models I mentioned were what you're looking at, but I'd
thought I'd give you my expierences with Parasound equipment. I think
its a great brand in terms of price/quality, they give you a 2 year warranty
even - much better then most companies. I guess you don't see reviews and
the like because they haven't established a reputation like Adcom, but
of course they've only been out for a few short years. I think Adcom
has become too fixed that they have the mid-end market... now Parasound is
starting to be noticed more, so tha Adcom has some real competition. Not
that I don't like Adcom, I had a GFA535 for awhile, which is a good amp
for very little $.. its just good to see some other companies offering
good quality products in the same price range..

							--> Mike