Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Approved-By:  Uma Ramamurthy <uma@ORION.STJUDE.ORG>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.india-d
Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:52:47 -0600
From:         Uma Ramamurthy <uma@orion.stjude.org>
Subject:      India-D Digest - Jan 22

India Interest Group Digest Fri, 22 Jan 93       Volume 2: Issue  81

Today's Topics:

      A step in the search for common ground
      Balasore missile range
      Comment on divide and rule
      Criminal Waste
      Facts n Figs: Statistically drastic !!!
      From Venkatesh Chandramouli
      GSB - Konkani
      Hatred among Indians????
      India, Hindus and Muslims
      India Map
      Information needed
      Language Debate [ Part 2 of 6 ]
      More info on travelling with infants
      Nationalism !
      Need info about "Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan"
      Nidhi's posting
      Project : 'HYDERABADI' Database
      Taj Mahal using ASCII char set
      Tax Info.
      Telugus in Madras
      The strength of India
      When White Westerners

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Date: 20 Jan 1993 18:32:58 -0600 (CST)
From: Chandra Balachandra <plains!balachan@uunet.UU.NET>
Subject: A step in the search for common ground

Let us begin with ideas.  Here are a few quotes excerpted from Aldous
Huxley's "The Perennial Philosophy." [Chapter titled: "That Thou Art" --
sanskrit: tat tvam asi]:
        "The more God is in all things, the more He is outside them.  The
more He is within, the more without."                  --  Meister Eckhart.
        "Caste, creed, family and lineage do not exist in Brahman.  Brahman
has neither name nor form, transcends merit and demerit, is beyond time,
space and the objects of sense-experience.  Such is Brahman, and 'thou art
That.' Meditate upon this truth within your consciousness"      -- Shankara.
        "All proceeds from It and is under Its influence.  It is in all
things, but is not identical with beings, for it is neither differentiated
nor limited."                                               --  Chuang Tzu.
        "Behold but One in all things; it is the second that leads you
astray."                                                          -- Kabir.
        "In those respects in which the soul is unlike God, it is also
unlike itself."                                            --  St. Bernard.
        "I went from God to God, until they cried from me in me, "O thou
I!"                                                 --  Bayazid of Bistun.
        "Goodness needeth not to enter into the soul, for it is there
already, only it is unperceived."                 --  Theologia Germanica.
        "When the Ten Thousand things are viewed in their oneness, we
return to the Origin and remain where we have always been."  -- Sen T'sen.
        "The Beloved is all in all; the lover merely veils Him;
The Beloved is all that lives, the lover a dead thing." -- Jalal-uddin Rumi.
        The foregoing is but a fleeting glimpse of the profundity of what
unites us beyond all our labels, using which we are bickering and killing
each other today.  As a hero of mine once said, "There was a time when
every riverbank in India was reverberating with the sound "shivo'ham" ["I
am the Eternal"], and now we have descended into "shavo'ham" ["I am a
corpse]."
        Perhaps other netters can join in providing another early step
forward in realizing the common ground among us.

Chandra

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 13:44:05 -0700
From: laks minarashimhan janakiraman <siman@leo.unm.edu>
Subject: Balasore missile range

Hi
  I would like to mention about the article about Balasore missile range- the
  article falsely mention agni as a ICBM but it is a IRBM with range of about
  2000 to 3000 km , ICbms have a range of above 5000 km (i think so).
  And about treaty on Antarctica, I would like to mention that the fact given
  by the author is a irrelevant ( false and misleading ) . And every country
  launches is rockets which are aimed at sea not land ( ICBMS AND IRBMS)
  and I Balasore missile is not to be used completely for military
  purpose, it is decided to launch GSLV ( rocket which can carry
  communication satellite like Insat ) since from Sriharikota it is
  not possible to launch GSLV.

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jan 1993 09:45 -0500 (EST)
From: SKUMAR%2169@gmr.com
Subject: Comment on divide and rule

To further expand on the way 'westerners' respond differently to 'easterners'
look at the way technology is shared so easily amongst western nations.

Also, western nations respond differently to eastern threats - case in point
- when the Lexus cars were release it shook up the US auto industry - all
this while they did not worry about BMW and Mercedes - now Lexus is viewed
as an enemy and there is a feeling of jealousy towards the Japanese -
never heard of such a feeling towards BMW or Mercedes or Jaguar - oh they
are our buddies! sure!

As per Mr Ambekar's note about red and green bombs - its the basic
economic theory of guns and butter. Russia is going to export $4 billion
worth of arms - if India can do that - we'll have a $1billion balance of
trade in our favor!!

Sanjay

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 13:35:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: Ramsundar L <thssrxl@iitmax.acc.iit.edu>
Subject: Criminal Waste

Hi netters,

I am feeling so distressed now-a-days regarding the deteriorating quality of
the India-d.There used to be days when I would read India-d for hours together
and discuss some of the interesting topics with my friends that night.Topics
such as job-market, Ayodhya etc used to be attractive. But it seems as though
the topic of "localism" is creeping up. When I mean localism I mean
"tamilians","Kannadigas", "Gujratis", etc. Believe me, this is more dangerous
than the Ayodhya issue.

Certain people are very proud by the fact that Sridevi was born in Tamil Nadu
(in Sivakasi,land of fireworks). What if she was born in a place in Nagaland.
We can be proud of her still.

Mr.C.Rajagopalachari was the one who advocated that the division of states
should not be on a linguistic basis. But Nehru denounced it. And now we feel
the "fruits" of the language based division.

I am not able to really digest such "pro-language/anti-language" discussions
and I am sure that list would be too big. I would appeal to the Indian
Community to stop fermenting such discussions on the net.

Good-bye,
L Ramsundar

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 22:42:52 -0600 (MDT)
From: SL24K@CC.USU.EDU
Subject: Facts n Figs: Statistically drastic !!!

Hi folks.
wrt Mr. Shankar's comments on my observations about 'facts n figs.', I would
like to clarify some pts. Like I mentioned, I have no problem with the %mus.
population going up. But I don't agree with the strong objection that he took
when someone wrote that this was a 'drastic' increase (refering to family
planning failures). While Mr. Shankar does not think that a 2% increase in the
% of muslims in India is drastic, the original writer felt that a population
increase of muslims from 40m in 1961 to 100m now is drastic. The word drastic
could also have been used in light of the fact that, while the total pop.
has less than doubled, the muslim pop. has gone up 2.25 times. One does not
always need figures to support an argument but if the writer expects readers
to respect the article he had better come up with facts n figs (n refs.).
Inferences are relative and largely reflects personal opinion.

Mr. Shankar made it appear that one cannot pen his opinion without coughing
out the facts. Yes, he certainly can and it is up to the mature reader to... BTW
Mr. Shankar, I don't think statistics deals with determining the 95% confidence
Interval to determine if a bunch of data can be branded as a 'drastic'
observation. I'm real excited to learn it if u have any latest info. Post the
stuff to my address please. Let me proof read it and share your hypothesis
(on statistically drastic observations) on the net.

When I mentioned that some inferences can be drawn for sure from mere observa-
tions without having to rely on figs., I was not refering to the muslim pop.
It was a general statement. If I say that rice is more abundant in India, does
it mean that I must come up with the exact figs. to prove it ? The original
statement (drastic inc in %mus pop.) is not of much significance coz. it is
just someone's opinion, all the same he had the right to air it.
Thanks for suggesting that I take up demography, Mr. Shankar, I assure you that
I will give it a serious thought.
Arjun Ram.

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 13:59:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Chandramouli Venkatesh <cvenkate@eecs.wsu.edu>
Subject: From Venkatesh Chandramouli

Hey guys,
I'm posting this mesg on reading the two mails that I got yesterday posted
to my personal email a/c. They pointed out that though I was justified in
"replying" to the original piece, the tone of my reply sounded as though I
was proclaiming Tamils as one step above the rest and ws looking down upon
others! Lemme tell u that this definitely WAS NOT my intention and if u
personally feel that this was the sort of feeling I had evoked in u and if
u feel that I had hurt ur feelings then I am genuinely sorry about that!
After all we are all humans first before being anything else, isn't it?
I got so very irritated on reading that posting that in my urge to reply
immediately I didn't pay attention to these finer aspects! What to do?
As a saying goes "payikku vaakkapattaal puLiya marathil yeri thaaney ahaNum"
[if u r engaged to a ghost u HAVE to inhabit a tamarind tree!!]. But
even then I never ever stooped down to such low levels of making "profound"
statments like "XYZ people are all of this category.." or "XYZs have nothing
to be proud about.." etc!!

And to those prejudiced, opinionated and arrogant bunch who went about venting
their accumulated hatred by `shouting' on the net, all I have got to tell u
guys is "I care two hoots" and before posting to the net next time register
for some course like "human relations 101"!

a homo sapien (!)
CV

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 16:24:45 -0500 (EST)
From: srn@ulysses.att.com
Subject: GSB - Konkani

> Date: 17 Jan 1993 18:08:06 -0500 (EST)
> From: rnayak@ENG.CLEMSON.EDU (Rajesh S. Nayak)
> Subject: Are there any Konkanis ?
>
> Hello Ajit,
>  your interest in contacting G.S.B s is commendable, but there are a
> lot more G.S.B s here in the U.S than you  imagine. There are a lot
> of G.S.B sabhas too here. I could mail you the address of one in New
> Jersey if you are interested.

I find it interesting when people equate "being GSB" with "being
Konkani" - although its true in many cases. I am a GSB but am
not Konkani (Here, I presume Konkanis are people from North Karnataka -
Karwar region, including Goa). I consider myself Maharashtrian, and
know quite a few other GSBs who are like myself. To put it in a
nutshell, I know GSBs who are NOT Konkanis and I also know Konkanis
who are NOT GSBs.

I put this on the net, instead of sending personal messages, as I
found this misconception prevalent in many Konkani GSBs. (Incidentally,
I have never understood why the lanuguage spoken in North Karnataka
is called Konkani, when Konkan is the name generally used to refer
to the coastal region in Southwest Maharashtra.)

P.S.: BTW Rajesh, I did not understand the last line of your message.
-Shirish

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 21:03:16 +0000 (GMT)
From: kbaratam@drystone.attmail.com
Subject: Hatred among Indians????

Hi netters,
Recently I came across some Indian people, unfortunately, who don't like
Indian parties, Indian functions and the behaviour of Indians! Pretty
Strange, euh? Yes, it was not just one or two but a good proportion.

And the kind of excuses/complaints these people have are varied. All the guys
get in one corner and the girls in the other corner and start talking among
themselves. The group talks in their own language even if they know that one
[or more] person among them doesn't know their language. In places like NJ
there are some [not all] Indian restaurents where being an Indian you don't
get good [acceptable] service. Sometimes Indian people don't say hi [the way
you say to a stranger] if you are an Indian but they do for others.

I know this is a very embarrassing subject to talk about. I just wanted to
know what other netters feel about it. All these things I have mentioned may
not happen always and everywhere. But they do happen in this country with
Indians.

The people who complained say that these do not happen with other
nationalities like chineese etc. What is happening is that these people tend
to stay away from anything 'Indian'! Are there a lot of netters experiencing
this?

Kamesh Baratam

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 15:40:16 -0700
From: Shantanu Sardesai <sardesai@enuxha.eas.asu.edu>
Subject: India, Hindus and Muslims

        The Associated Press publishes in The New York Times and
The Arizona Republic :
        "Since the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Muslims and
Hindus at partition, India has sought a reconciliation between the
Muslims minority and the Hindu majority, but waves of conflict have
undercut the efforts. The partition was forced by Muslims seeking a
separate nation, Pakistan."

        Hindus have tolerated the Indian Muslims too much. Muslims give
more importance to their religion than to the motherland India. For
them we accepted a different national anthem "Jan gan man ..",
than our good old independence song "Vande mataram..", even after
the partition.
        Muslims in India can do any thing under the name of their
religion because they are minority. But  if Hindus  even try to
protect their religion then its an anti-national activity.
        Indian Muslims had it their way for a long time! There are so
many issues which need to be resolved since the independence.The current
sequence of events in India are just a representetive of the lack of
religious independence and the frustration that Hindus have faced for
last 45 years in their own country.
        Common, get together! Don't let Muslims dictate their terms in
India, they can do so in Pakistan. India is not a Muslim contry, neither
we are a "cutter" Hindu country. But, now it is time for us and we wont
hesitate to make India, a Hindu nation "BHARAT".
        Garv se kaho ham Hindu hai! Vande Mataram!

shantanu.

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 22:10:11 -0500 (EST)
From: talukdar@hal.hahnemann.edu
Subject: India Map

Hello,
        This is to let you know that in yesterday's article on Kashmir
in the New York Times, J&K was shown with a dotted line for its southern
border ie., the one with Himachal and Punjab. Please everyone spend 5
minutes and 29 cents to write to the paper informing them of this error.
We must guard against subliminal messages being planted. It is not the
line of control being shown. Thank you..

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 20:37 -0800 (PST)
From: amardeep singh thind <IC46AST@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
Subject: Information needed

Hi netters,
           I'm looking for information on the following :
   (1) NIH Fogarty Fellowships: Is there any recipient of these fellowships out
 there/anybody who can fill me in on the nitty-gritty of these awards?

    (2) Robotics research in Canada,especially in the areas of task driven
control,vision,intelligence-names of Univs/labs/profs to contact

    (3) The e-mail address of Prof.George Sardis at CRISSE,RPI,Troy,NY

    I can be reached by e-mail at IC46AST@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU or if you prefer
voice contact, at (310)-794-3224
    Thanks for the trouble.

    Amardeep Singh Thind.

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 08:30 -0600 (CST)
From: Deivan Durai <DURAI@KSUVM.KSU.EDU>
Subject: Language Debate [ Part 2 of 6 ]

4.  We don't have to go too far to realize that we are playing with fire.
    Just look south and see what is happening in Sri Lanka.  The main problem
    in Sri Lanka has been the way Sinhalese majority treated [and continue to
    treat] Tamil language and consequently the Tamil-speaking population.  Sri
    Lanka could have adopted a two- or three-language policy but they decided to
    force Sinhalese down Tamils' throats while they themselves didn't have to
    touch Tamil.  Sri Lanka hasn't really changed its official policy and only a
    redressal of that policy will alter Tamil's misgivings and prevent Sri
    Lanka's continued bloodshed.  India had a taste of it in the 1960s and we
    don't have to offend the linguistic sensibilities of certain communities.

    It is disconcerting that we find quite a few Indians coming forward to
    remind us that we should not offend the religious sensibilities of any
    community whereas not that many stand up to stop the violation of a commun-
    ity's linguistic sensibilities.  The same North Indian who objects to
    Hinduism becoming a national religion pushes for Hindi becoming a national
    language.

    Even in highly developed countries, language issues can become very serious
    and debilitating.  Canada has that problem in Quebec.  If a community sees
    some implied or open threat to its language or culture, it can easily lead
    to greater problems.  Language issue has as much part to play in the
    creation of Bangladesh as any other.  We have to remind ourselves that
    the perceived subjugation of Bengali language by Urdu pushers from the
    West contributed to the demise of East Pakistan.  Let us learn from history!

5.  Contrary to popular belief among North Indians, none of the the South
    Indian languages is an Indo-European language.  South Indian languages
    that include Tamil, Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam, Tulu, etc., are distinctly
    different from and emerged with no input from Indo-European languages.
    These languages did take considerable input from Sanskrit but that does
    not imply that Sanskrit is the mother of all Indian languages.  It is an
    undeniable historical fact that Tamil is older than Sanskrit.

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 15:31:35 -0600 (CST)
From: shankar@ci.deere.com (Shankar Ramanathan)
Subject: More info on travelling with infants

Things You may need, when you are travelling with infants:
1. Bassinet:
Ask for bassinet when you book your airline ticket (and confirm it before
travelling). Infants generally will sleep comfortably in that. Plus you get to
sleep too.
2. Baby formula:
Specify the baby formula you want, in advance to the airline you are travelling.
But I am skeptical of getting the specified formula when you are travelling
from India.
3. Accessories:
Take the nasal aspirator for infants. This will come in handy if the baby has
cold and not able to breathe. Also this one surprised everybody over there and
you may want to take this as a gift too.
Carry bag for the babies. You can get real fancy one with soft pads etc. It is
real useful especially when you have to change planes etc. Stroller is good but
sometimes you have to carry the babies, that is when you need the carry bag.
4. Medicine:
cold medicine: This has a nice side effect too. Puts the crying baby to sleep,
real quick.
mylicon: Oral drops for stomach upsets. And whatever your doc recommends.

General:
Someone asked me about travelling from india with 2 mo. old baby. In my case we
travelled with a 3 1/2 mo. baby (born here), and came back when she was 6 mo.
old with my wife. We gave her all the shots and she came back before her shots
were due again. I would recommend you to ask your doc "here" for the necessary
shots. Some of them may not be available in india, it is better to call up and
make sure it is available over there. If it is not available you may want to
carry it from here.

We travelled by singapore airlines. The service was outstanding. I would
recommend it strongly to anyone who is flying the pacific route.

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jan 1993 10:41:27 -0300 (BST)
From: Rohit Madhukar Ambekar <A.ROHIT@sheffield.ac.uk>
Subject: Nationalism !

   The definition of the modern "Hindu" dharma, consists of many
religious sects, yet they are all Hindu, by definition of the "west"
or the occident.  The misinterpreted term Hindu refers to a native of
Hindustan, and not someone who worships Ram or any other god of
Indian origin.  Thus, it can be concluded from this evidence that
anyone of Hindustan is a Hindu, without any religious biases, and
MUST follow the law of the land.
   Hindustan has a different culture and a different system altogether.
It has all the necessary world resources for sustainence.  The
question arises:  Which path must we follow ?  At the difficult times
of the independence of India, and partition of Pakistan, we had a
leadership who decided to follow the western model of an economy.  If
Hindustan aspires in this direction, and succeeds to become what is
termed a "World Superpower", and make no mistake, it is perfectly
capable of doing so, then it would be an injustice to the world, as
we would exhaust the world of it's natural resources. It is not in
our nature, or culture, to exploit nature, we milk nature, this is a
purely western concept (ie that nature is there for man's
exploitation).  In Hindustan, villages have all the necessities
that they need to sustain themselves, yet they aspire for a so-called
"better life" and head to the cities, where money talks, even for the
necessities.  Therefore they resort to begging, and hence multiply
the poverty problem.  If they were educated to stay in their
villages, and told how they could govern themselves and look after
all their own needs and that they need not aspire for these
artificial luxuries, then these problems would not arise, and
certainly the government would have a lot more funds available for
other necessary activities.  The cities could remain as trade and
government centres, to bring income into the country.
   People must be made aware of their duties in life, and not aspire for
greed, and money through any means.  Unfortunately, the tool through
which this can be done, (the Indian Media) does not conform to, or
establish, any moral standards that depict how great a country India
actually is.  They too are corrupt, and play as putty in the hands of
the politicians.  If people in power were to be caught and punished
severely for corruption and other anti-national acts, and this was
extensively portrayed by the media, then the common man will begin to
think: "If they cannot get away with it, neither will I, I better not
do it."  Slowly, a moral standard will be rekindled in the population.

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 15:00:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Mahesh Bagade <c23mkb@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Need info about "Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan"

Hi Guys,

Does somebody has any information as to how I can procure certian books from
"Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan" pulication?

Do they have any local office in the U.S.?
Any information regrading this is appreciated..

Thank you...
Mahesh

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 18:00:11 -0700 (MST)
From: sl870@neptune.ee.usu.edu (The Gargonator)
Subject: Nidhi's posting

The posting by Nidhi Srinivas <SRINIVAS@Management.McGill.CA>, ostensibly
on Meher Baba, but addressing wider issues, was one of the few that dealt
with religion but still worth reading, that I have come across for some
time. Like he said,

" ... believe in the simple values of compassion, love, and intense
introspection. As a naive student of religion, I think the best aspects
of Hinduism have always been these values. It saddens me that many so-called
'religious hindus' now negate these beautiful aspects of my religion by
tainting it with the intolerance and cruelty that partly led to Ayodhya
and the recent riots in bombay. "

Ullas

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 21:10:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Ashish K Mathur <ashish@cs.umbc.edu>
Subject: Project : 'HYDERABADI' Database

Dear hyderabadis,
   In an effort to create a database of all the people from hyderabad,
we are involved in a database project. A compilation of the information
will be mailed to all of those who have mailed us one-liners.
   I request to please forward this email to whom-ever you might think is
interested in.
THE REQUESTED ONE-LINER CONSISTS OF 5 KEY INFORMATIONS STARTING
WITH A SPACE AND SEPERATED BY SEMICOLONS.
These are as follows:
  1) First_Name Last_Name.
  2) Email address.
  3) Your coded educational(India) info (example shown below).
  4) Where, in hyderabad, are you from (Roughly).
  5) Your contact phone number in US mainland.
A sample of the requested one-liner from all hyderabadis is shown below:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
<first.last> <email address>                <univ> <addr>  <contact-num>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mahesh Bagade;c23mkb@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com;cbec88;moulali;(317)453-3872
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Example: How to code your education inforamtion.
-----------------------------------------------
 The coded univ information consists of just 6 characters:
 1 & 2 = school :: 3 & 4 = major :: 5 & 6 = year of passing out.
     SCHOOL                            SCHOOL-MAJOR
     ------                            ------------
O.U. (campus) : ou     |     Civil       : ce        Psychology  : ps
J.N.T.U       : ju     |     Mechanical  : me        Literature  : lt
C.B.I.T       : cb     |     Electrical  : ee        Business/Adm: mb
M.V.S.R       : mv     |     Electronics : ec        Metallurgy  : mt
Vasavi        : va     |     Computers   : cs        Architecture: ar
Deccan        : dc     |     Industrial  : ie        Other major : xx
Muffakham Jah : mj     |     Navigation  : ne
H.C.U         : hu     |     Mining      : ye
Other univ.   : xu     |     Statistics  : st

Please send your one-liners to hyd@cs.umbc.edu .
Your cooperation is highly appreciated.
Thanx,
Ashish K Mathur

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jan 1993 08:37:45 -0500 (EST)
From: sanjay@churchill.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM
Subject: Taj Mahal using ASCII char set

One of the great wonders of the world


                                      |
                                     /^\
                                   /     \
                                | (       ) |
               /^\             /^\ \     / /^\             /^\
               |O| /^\        (   )|-----|(   )        /^\ |O|
               |_| |-|    |^-^|---||-----||---|^-^|    |-| |_|
               |O| |O|    |/^\|/^\||  |  ||/^\|/^\|    |O| |O|
               |-| |-|    ||_|||_||| /^\ |||_|||_||    |-| |-|
               |O| |O|    |/^\|/^\||(   )||/^\|/^\|    |O| |O|
               |-| |-|    ||_|||_||||   ||||_|||_||    |-| |-|
               |O| |_|----|___|___|||___|||___|___|----|_| |O|
               |_|/_______________________________________\|_|
              |___|_______________________________________|___|

Sanjay Jain

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jan 1993 20:26:18 -0600 (CST)
From: C556632@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu
Subject: Tax Info.

Hi Everyone,
It seems like Indian F-1 studentscan now file 1040EZ instead of NR
which they had to file earlier. This is evident from a careful reading of the I
ndo-US tax treatysigned recently. Special thanks to Raghufor this useful info
rmation.
If any of you want a copy of the tax treaty, call the IRS at the 1-800
number listed on any tax information form (usually appended to the 1040 form)
and ask them to mail it to you.
David

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Date: 20 Jan 1993 15:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: Dasari Tej <DTEJ@VAX2.CSTP.UMKC.EDU>
Subject: Telugus in Madras

Hello friends,
        This is the first time that I have ventured into this regional war.
Does any of one you realise that after Independance the States were reorganised
into the Nadus and Pradeshes of today?  In this process many districts were
moved around and merged into their neighbouring States. You can notice this
blending of areas if you take a long train ride diferrent States.  I am not
surprised that some Telugu celebraties have settled in Madras lured by the
cine studios there.
        So who ever claims that a VIP is from their land is just basking in
others glory.  They should emulate these great people and do something
constructive for the good of India as a whole.
        So all you warriors and gossipers (and they say only housewives gossip
about their neighbours and blow out of proportion their husbands' achievements)
please dont fill this precious media with your biased and very childish
opinions.  Even if you have some India interest item please check your facts
and figures before posting and not just utter something off the empty top.
         You are supposed to be the intelligentsia of India. From your
postings you appear to be some boat-people fleeing persecution in your land.

Tej

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Date: 20 Jan 1993 22:27:08 -0500
From: dxg10@po.CWRU.Edu (Damodaragoun Gopal)
Subject: The strength of India

Considering the religious and linguistic tones of few comments the one
I am trying to put may not be so bad. Though it may not sound great it is
certainly thought provoking (or atleast somebody can call me less or un or
nonpatriotic - we know Mrs Gandhi used to question the opposition leaders
in the same way and interestingly most of them were from north - so it
does not matter).  I ask all netters to think about the following objectively
1. Was India one country?.  2. Is India one country?. 3. Will India be one
country?.  It is certainly one country. Will it be?.  Of course it was not
(politically). When its own survival is not very sure we are fighting
for one language to save the nation(!). Indias greatest strength was its
unique diversity and its flexibility which is (was) basically reflected by
Hinduism (are we going to change the name -  propably it was given by Europeans
from the word Indus).  Successive invasions could not subdue this culture
(even though politically beaten). It is not a weakness but becomes weakness
when there is no mutual flexibility and accetping the diversness on all sides.
We can have oneness on anything but that will not help India to survive for
centuries.

Remember the USSR, can India have more oneness than it, can India be more
powerful than USSR?  It did not survive. The historic lesson is if we dont stay
together we will not survive.To stay together means accepting the differences
and respecting others. If we want oneness we are risking our own nations
survival. One language or one religion is not going to solve anything.
Even if we achieve one we will have or find so many to divide. Is it true that
according to the Indian constitution Roman numericals are to be used?.
Has this been the practice - I mean is it accepted.  We tamilians use Roman
numericals though we had one of our own. If Rajiv's assasination is to be
blamed on Tamils instead of his infamous Srilanka accord and its cosequences
(remember Rao went to Bombay in bullet proof) with disregarding security, who
is to be blamed for Gandhi - the famous old one remember.  No it is not right.
We as a nation has to take responsibility.  the survival of India is in its
economic prosperity  and the acceptance of diversness and flexibility on all
sides not in its national language or religion.

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Date: 21 Jan 1993 08:38:58 +0100
From: POPOWICZ_ALISON/HP6330_M1@hpgnd.grenoble.hp.com
Subject: When White Westerners

When white westerners come across each other in
India, we do not smile or acknowledge each other's
underbaked colour (as I would expect us to do).

Instead of nodding a cheerful "hello, where are you
from, have you time for a chat over a drink of
something!" we stare blankly at one another with blind
marbled eyes twisting with panic, possessiveness and
bleached alarm that emit a warning growl of "I
discovered India first".

Before we make ourselves invisible and disappear to
lonely-rule over our even more invisible kingdom.

by Mirek Popowicz
Sassenage;  November, 1992

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End of India Interest Group Digest
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