HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cebarton@laplace.waterloo.edu (Casey Barton)
Subject: Panacea "OS/2Speed" drivers?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:37:52 GMT

     Someone posted a little while ago stating that they were going to try to
get in touch with Panacea (Binar graphics?) concerning their possible plans for
"OS/2Speed" drivers.... I'd be real interested in hearing what came of it.
-- 
      Casey Barton (Mr.)   cebarton@descartes.waterloo.edu   (519)725-6861
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: gregde@microsoft.com (Greg Demichillie)
Subject: Re: Origins of IBM / Microsoft rift
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:43:59 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Jul22.154244.26401@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.234116.3461@unislc.uucp> thayne@unislc.uucp (Thayne Forbes) writes:
>
>>Recall that until about '86 Microsoft was making more money selling
>>Mac apps than DOS.  My guess is that Bill will not let any market
>>with 2 million users fall by the wayside.  Just MHO.
>
>Then why did he almost abandon the Mac community?  The new MS apps for
>the Mac are direct ports of the Windows apps, and the Mac users don't
>appreciate this one bit.  The wanted Mac apps, and they're getting
>ported Windows apps.

Huh?  Have you looked at the list of best selling apps on the Mac
lately?  I think you'll find that Word and Excel do very well, thank
you.  And while we are at it, users WANT Excel on the Mac and Excel
on Windows to be similiar.  That doesn't mean that you write them
to be identical and only contain the least common denominator feature
set.  But that isn't what Word and Excel do.  They contain core
functionality across both platforms but then also support the
unique features of each platform (QuickTime and Publish/Subscribe on the
Mac, DDE and OLE on Windows, for example.)

-Greg

-- 
Greg DeMichillie          
gregde@microsoft.com      -- All opinions are mine, not Microsoft's -- 
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: MLONG@isucard.card.iastate.edu
Subject: Re: Extended Services LAN support?
Organization: CARD
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 05:22:12 GMT

In article <Brpu2B.G5p@news.cso.uiuc.edu>                                       
jvmg9796@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Doc) writes:                                         
                                                                                
>I have a couple of 'puters that I would like to LAN.  I also have OS/2 2.0     
>and Extended Services.  The docs for ES are at least a foot thick, Im not      
>exaggerating.  And I know very little about LANs.  My question is, if I buy a  
>pair of ethernet or token ring cards and put them into these machines, and     
>run OS/2 with ES on both of them, will the "communications manager" in ES      
>run the lan?  Or will I still need to buy a separate LAN software package?     
>Basically Im asking, does ES have LAN support built-in or not?  I cant         
>make heads or tails of the docs.                                               
ES comes with LAN support, I beleive it is called LAPS.  It is NDIS based,      
so if you do not buy an adapter that is directly supported, you will need       
to get the OS/2 NDIS portion from the adapter vendor.  The LAPS includes        
802.2 and NETBIOS interfaces.  What do you want to do with your LAN?            
If you want to use to talk to an IBM Host ES is what you want, if you want      
to set up a Database Manager Server and Requesters ES is what you want.         
If you want PC drive and PC printer sharing, ES is not what you want.           
Sorry if this messes up your news reader :->                                    
Mike Long                                                                       
Iowa State University
From: mikeo@spider.co.uk (Mike Overton)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: PC Week dumps on NT
Date: 30 Jul 92 09:28:47 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK

In article <1992Jul29.133118.25496@scott.skidmore.edu> pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu (Pierre VonKaenel) writes:
>Someone recently posted a description of the latest PC Week's article
>on NT and how it won't run all DOS and Windows programs.  As I read
>through the magazine, I was amazed to find article after article
>dumping on NT or raising doubts about its capabilities in the initial
                                                               =======
>release.
>Talk about an about face! 

The word 'initial' says it all - NT isn't even a true beta yet, and MS
have said all along that the DOS and Win support is still not
finalised. (Although I hear a new july release is better).

The current NT is for developers only, who I am sure a sensible enough
not to think it is a final release.

Mike Overton.
Lines: 34
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 07:04:20 MDT
From: earlyd@ee.byu.edu (David Early)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Distribution: world
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
Subject: Re: Can IBM write code?
Keywords: IBM


In article <1992Jul14.135842.19776@engage.pko.dec.com>, eje@irenaeus.mlo.dec.com (Eric James Ewanco) writes:
> 
> >    I dearly hope that you do not use the same method to judge people as you 
> > do operating systems. Do you decide whether a person is worthy of respect
> > based on the number of people you have met from their country of origin?
> 
> No, but I wouldn't hire a hardware engineer to write a next generation operating
> system that I will use for mission-critical applications.  Nor would I hire a
> COBOL or PL/I hacker to write such an operating system.
> 
> > IBM, in the PC market, has never been a large application supplier.
> > I don't know if they ever will be.  But who cares?  OS/2 is slick, slick,
> > slick.
> 
> Remember that MS wrote a large portion of OS/2.  How do we know IBM has the
> capability to keep it running?  Just because Dan Quayle is in the White House
> doesn't mean he can run the presidency if Bush resigns.
>


Oh, come on!!

You can't seriously imply that after almost 4 yours of independent work on OS/2 that IBM is doesn't
have the 'capability' to keep OS/2 running????!????


And as far as the 'large' part that MS wrote, they wrote ~60% of the 1.0, but how much of
that code is left in 2.0???  Knowledgable answers to THAT question might prevent bad, uninformed
rummors from forming.



Dave Early
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: gupw@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Paul Wagland)
Subject: Re: OS2 Good news and Bad news (OS2 & a little windows too)
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 00:48:05 GMT

maynard@ept.msc.cornell.edu (Maynard J. Handley) writes:

>In article <1992Jul24.180308.8662@njitgw.njit.edu>, dic5340@hertz.njit.edu
>(David Charlap) writes:

--<Discussion of different displays deleted>--

>This is not at all true. I have 8 or 24 bit color on my SE/30 and it's not
>co-processed. The color of most Macs (LC, si, ci, and Quadra) is not
>co-processed. My experience has been that supposedly equivalent platforms
>(say LC vs 386sx) will give the Mac faster color. I guess this is because
>the Mac can address the screen as one long array without having constantly
>to shuffle 64K banks around.

Well that's half the reason. The other half is that the Mac can throw
pixels at the screen at full internal bus rate. ie. if the internal bus
runs at 20Mhz, then so does the external bus, the one the graphics sit
on. With the PC, the external bus always runs at 8Mhz, although I think
there are a few that run at 16?  Even this though is not the full speed
of the computer, so the machine has to wait a long time for the bus to
finish writing one pixel, before it can do the next. Also a lot of video
cards are pretty slow in their uptake, because when you are sitting on a
8Mhz bus it doesn't really matter.

-- 
Paul Wagland            | These opinions are mine and no-one elses
gupw@uniwa.uwa.edu.au   | I still don't like Microsoft, even after using
------------------------+  their products. :-)
Xref: sparky comp.os.os2.advocacy:3408 comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy:1672
From: mlevis@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Mike Levis)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: OS/2 apps for OS/2
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:05:50 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio

[was Re: Origins of IBM / Microsoft rift]

In article <1992Jul30.161639.5706@microsoft.com> gordonl@microsoft.com (Gordon Letwin) writes:
>    2) OS/2 runs windows applications.  I hear every day how well it
>    	does so.  So who in their right minds will write apps for
>    	OS/2 PM - and only run on OS/2 - when they could write apps
>    	for Windows and run on BOTH platforms?

You mean companies like Borland, WordPerfect, Lotus, ....
I'm sure you recognize the names of these companies.

Windows support in OS/2 is so that people can run existing
Windows apps.  DOS support follows the same logic.  I refuse
to buy any more DOS or Windows apps (except maybe for a game
or two).  I want OS/2 apps!  I am positive that there are many
other OS/2 fans who share a similar view.

Only OS/2 apps can offer HPFS support, multiple threads, 32-bit
calculations, flat memory model, WPS look-alike, etc.  (I know,
I know, DOS apps or Win apps can provide for 32-bit calcs and
flat memory, but that would eliminate their 8088/286 market)

Only OS/2 apps can be run without loading Windows system code
first.

MS is a parent of OS/2, but abandoned it.  IBM had nothing to
do with Windows, yet it supports it.

MS seems to be taking *every* opportunity to avoid committing
to writing OS/2 apps.  Instead of saying "we'll write OS/2 apps
when there are x users" or "just run Win apps instead", MS
should just say "we ain't gonna write no OS/2 apps ever".  Why
doesn't MS come out and just say that?

PS: I don't know how well NT will run Windows apps, but if NT runs
them well, why would anyone write NT-specific apps?

>
>gordon letwin

-- 
========= Mike Levis   mlevis@ringer.cs.utsa.edu =========  .--.
ftp syrinx.umd.edu (128.8.2.114) for Rush lyrics and info. (OS/2)
::::: Get the Rush FAQL in directory /rush/special. ::::::  ~--~
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: petesk@microsoft.com (Pete Skelly)
Subject: Re: Origins of IBM / Microsoft rift
Date: 30 Jul 92 09:45:08 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <r5nmfzl.xtifr@netcom.com> xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters) writes:
>In <1992Jul29.065821.24656@seas.gwu.edu> lai@seas.gwu.edu (William Y. Lai) writes:
>
>>Let's be honest here, if Microsoft's apps group does not want to lend a hand
>>to the success of OS/2, just come out and say so.  I, like most users, can
>>understand MS for not developing for a competing platform.
>
>I would understand it a heck of a lot better if MS implemented this
>policy consistently.  But they develop for the Mac, despite the fact
>that the presence of Excel (or whatever) for the Mac may mean less sales
>of Intel machines that might run NT.

The difference is, the Macintosh is an established system.  MS has no
obligation to write Apps for any system.  Neither does anyone else
(okay, there may be a few legal contracts, but very few).   App
developers write apps for systems that sell.  This includes WordPerfect,
MS, Frame, etc.  If OS/2 looks like it'll sell well, then MS may write 
apps for it.  However, the general though is that it makes more sense
to write for Win32 at this point in time.  This is true for a lot of
App developers.  If Mac people stopped buying software, MS would stop
selling it.  This includes Excel, the most popular spreadsheet for
the Mac.

>-- 
>Chris Waters    | the insane don't | NOBODY for President!
>xtifr@netcom.COM| need disclaimers | Because Nobody's perfect!!

Oh, yeah, if you really want MS apps for OS/2, get your friends together
and complain to MS.  However, I think you should want the apps for wanting
the apps, not to make OS/2 a success.  Seems kind of sleazy to me if you
request MS apps just to make OS/2 more popular, and then buy other apps.

Heck, you run apps, not operating systems anyway.  (Don't tell me you spend
your whole day formatting floppies and running batch files, Yeuch).

petesk@microsoft.com
My Opinions...


Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: bbrown@infonode.ingr.com (Bailey Brown)
Subject: Re: Impressions of the July NT Release
Keywords: NT
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:43:28 GMT

gess@knex.Gwinnett.COM (Gess Shankar) writes:

>Oh, I don't know about that. There is some truth to that statement. As a
>matter of fact, I, like some others on the net, subscribe to the theory
>that one of important reasons for Win 3.1 success is '3d buttons'. In
>this era, 'image is everything' and I think Microsoft, above all, knows this.
>;-)

OS/2 1.2 had 3D buttons.  The reason for Win 3.0's success was v86 mode,
which OS/2 didn't have until 2.0.

>GeSS
>--
>Gess Shankar      |<><>|Internet: gess@knex.Gwinnett.COM                |<><>|
>Knowledge Exchange|<><>|{rutgers,ogicse,gatech}!emory!gwinnett!knex!gess|<><>|

------------
Bailey Brown                               "Above all else, confusion reigns."
Intergraph Corporation                                  
bbrown@casca.b11.ingr.com                              Procol Harum
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: kcurtis@inthehat.engin.umich.edu (Keith Curtis)
Subject: Impressions of the July NT Release
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 20:05:54 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Keywords:  NT
Originator: kcurtis@inthehat.engin.umich.edu


I recently installed the July NT release:

Its quite stable.  I only crashed it a couple of times, and that had to do with not properly configuring my printer driver.  The rest of the time, it just locks up, and you think its crashed, but it eventually starts working again.

There is a lot of it missing:
No FAT,HPFS->NTFS in-situ file system upgrader
No settings for DOS sessions
No POSIX support
Not many hardware drivers, and I found some to be buggy
Little on-line help
Not all the security features are implemented
Not all the accessories included (write, etc)
Etc, Etc.

There is a lot of code, there, though, but the DOS-16 and the Win-16 code is buggy.  Some of the code is just a port from the Win3, and not Win3.1

All of the code, though is either not tuned or just very slow because of NT's overhead.  NT takes my 486-50 with 16 megs and turns it into an 8086.  It is not at all usable in a work environment, if you are planning on using any DOS or Win-16 apps.  I'm merely using it to test some things, and to attempt to port my stuff to 32-bit.  It better be massively sped up in the next few months, or it won't fly.

I'm not an expert on making operating systems, but my experience with Microsoft is that they have a ton to do and they won't be able to do it in time.  I cannot believe that they expect it to ship at the end of December.  I was a tester for Windows 3.1, and it was very stable and seemed ready to ship from the beginning (last June), yet it shipped 10 months later.  I cannot understand how NT which is only half here could be predicted to ship in 5 months.
From: failsafe@cellar.org (Failsafe)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT=OS2+LANMAN-WPS
Date: 31 Jul 92 06:06:07 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

joiner@cs.umn.edu (Jay Joiner) writes:

> I have the NT CD-ROM and I run OS/2 2.0, but without LANMAN.  It is
> only a hunch since I haven't run LANMAN, but I came away feeling that
> NT is essentially OS/2 + LANMAN + Win 3.1 GUI, in terms of basic 
> operating system services.  I would like to get feedback from anybody 
> who has seen both about this conclusion.  If this is so, then further 
> comparisons as to hardware requirements, cost, etc. should be made 
> between these two comparable configurations.


Do you run OS/2 2.0 and the NT CD-ROM on the same machine? I have OS/2 up
and running but have held off trying to install NT due to the warnings in
the installation manual. If you have it working, pray tell, how?



> 
> From what I could tell so far, the command line shell for NT is CMD.EXE
> from OS/2 (the default prompt, the START command, the '&&' separator).
> This lends credibility to the story that MS programmer's use OS/2 1.x for
> development.  NT is certainly where the 32-bit incarnation of MSC/C++
> 7.0 lives.

Very interesting!



Steve Roth
Philadelphia PA

Mailing address    failsafe@cellar.org

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Roth                      The Cellar BBS (215) 654-9187
Philadelphia, PA.               No witty saying yet, maybe not ever!
Preferred Mailpath: cellar%failsafe@tredysvr.tredydev.unisys.com
Alternate mailpath: failsafe@cellar.org
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters)
Subject: Re: Origins of IBM / Microsoft rift
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 20:16:39 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In <1992Jul29.065821.24656@seas.gwu.edu> lai@seas.gwu.edu (William Y. Lai) writes:

>Let's be honest here, if Microsoft's apps group does not want to lend a hand
>to the success of OS/2, just come out and say so.  I, like most users, can
>understand MS for not developing for a competing platform.

I would understand it a heck of a lot better if MS implemented this
policy consistently.  But they develop for the Mac, despite the fact
that the presence of Excel (or whatever) for the Mac may mean less sales
of Intel machines that might run NT.
-- 
Chris Waters    | the insane don't | NOBODY for President!
xtifr@netcom.COM| need disclaimers | Because Nobody's perfect!!
From: marten@feki.toppoint.de (Marten Feldtmann)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: IBM vs. MS development kit prices?
Distribution: world
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 08:21:49 GMT
Organization: Private Site

jg3o+@andrew.cmu.edu writes in article <YeOlBZC00jWN81EKlW@andrew.cmu.edu>:

> the user base.  A good way to do that is to get the students,
> researchers, etc. as users.  These are the people who generate lots of
> code for nothing (freeware and shareware)  these are the people who are

 Well, IBM in Germany knows the power of the market and gives students
and universities all OS/2 products for 40% less than the normal prices.
That's a nice sign, but unfortunately IBM puts the price of OS/2 very
high in Germany. .... :-)

 Greetings ...

 MF

--
Marten Feldtmann                         E-Mail: marten@tpki.toppoint.de
2300 Kiel 14,    Kieler Str. 29,   Tel.: 0431-731916,   FAX: 0431-737677
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: New version of DOS coming out? (NOOO!! Anything but *that*!)
Date: 31 Jul 92 17:10:28 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <33mm!zf.xtifr@netcom.com> xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters) writes:
>
>2.  Contrariwise, I can't imagine why anyone would need more than 80
>characters for PATH.  PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin is sufficient
>for much larger, more powerful systems.  I have an opinion of people who
>complain about only being able to have 128 characters in their path, but
>I'm far too polite to express that opinion here.  :-)

Well, here's my PATH that I use on my account (hertz.njit.edu).  Note
that I can't change it, because I can't re-arrange the directory tree.

.:/usr/u3/dic5340:/usr/u3/dic5340/bin:/usr/ucb:/bin:/usr/bin:/etc:/usr/local/bin:/usr/new:/usr/games:/usr/bin/X11
123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123456789 123

Note that the length is 113 characters.  Only 15 characters short of
the 128-character DOS-imposed limit.  Sure, I could cut it down a bit,
removing /usr/games and my home directory, but why should I change the
way I want to work for the sake of the OS?
-- 
   |)  David Charlap           "I don't even represent myself
  /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu   sometimes so NJIT is right out!.
 ((|,)
  ~|~  Hi! I am a .signature virus, copy me into your .signature file.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Tetris gripe
Date: 27 Jul 92 19:43:52 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Jul24.165919.16653@midway.uchicago.edu> sip1@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

>>Time out - didn't OS/2 2.0 beta have a version of Tetris?  Yes, it did;
>>I know because I wrote it.  IBM Corporate had a problem with paying money
>>to Spectrum Holobyte (the holder of the copyright) to license the concept
>>of Tetris so that it can distribute the game with OS/2.
>
>I do not know what Microsoft or Quarterdeck Office Systems agreed to,
>but it is possible they have not reached any agreement with Spectrum
>Holobyte, in which case they could face possible legal action.  I
>would not jump to the conclusion that both these companies even
>bothered to talk with Spectrum Holobyte.

I'm surprised IBM even considered talking to SH.  Tetris has been
around in public domain form at least a year before SH released their
version (remember the kid from Russia who invented it?).  True, the PD
game was only text-mode, but it still invalidates any claim on the
concept.

I think someone at IBM either didn't do his homework, or didn't care
much about finding out.

>Now, if that is the case, I really do not know how I would react.  On
>the one hand you have a company (IBM) which is trying as hard as
>possible not to infringe on Spectrum Holobyte's intellectual property,
>and, in discussions with them, they could not agree on royalties.

I'd be really disgusted if IBM had to pay royalties for a PD program.
Unless this version was going to have SH's graphical title screens and
stuff.
-- 
   |)  David Charlap           "I don't even represent myself
  /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu   sometimes so NJIT is right out!.
 ((|,)
  ~|~  Hi! I am a .signature virus, copy me into your .signature file.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: genie@netcom.com (The Genie)
Subject: Re: OS2 Good news and Bad news  (OS2 & a little windows too)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 08:17:40 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 


There's been some talk/argument about people
comparing DOS/OS 2 to System 7 for the MAC.  I'd just
like to remind people that this is actually a OS/2 advocacy
group.  If you think a MAC suits your purpose, go ahead
and buy a MAC.  If you think OS/2 serves your purpose,
go ahead and buy and IBM compatible.  But PLEASE
refrain from replying with long flame wars that waste
our time and bandwidth...

Gene
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu (Pierre VonKaenel)
Subject: Re: Origins of ...  Quayle
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY, 12866
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 00:05:41 GMT

In article <5088@ais.com> bruce@ais.com (Bruce C. Wright) writes:
>In article <1992Jul24.171248.27457@njitgw.njit.edu>, dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>> In article <1992Jul23.073024.2366@unislc.uucp> thayne@unislc.uucp (Thayne Forbes) writes:
>> 
>>>           "If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
>>>                            -U.S. Vice President J. Danforth Quayl[e]
>> 
>> This guy is almost as profound as computer dealers...
>
>The Quayle quote sounds like a somewhat flawed paraphrase of chess
>grandmaster Robert Byrne's dictum that "If you aren't winning, you're
>losing". 

Didn't he also think that "Roe vs. Wade" was a decision Washington had
to make crossing the Delaware?

[ why am I wasting time with this..... ]


-- 
Pierre von Kaenel	| Skidmore College	     | pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu
Math & CS Dept.		| Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 | (518)584-5000 Ext 2391
When asked his position on euthanasia, our local state rep. responded:
"I support youth all over the world."
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy