From: davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami)
Subject: Re: Who are the Occupiers?
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 12:47:42 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.022344.27498@cs.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>In article 26010@discus.technion.ac.il, davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami) writes:
>>Mythology or not mythology the fact is that Jews were related to this
>>specific piece of land for 3000+ years , the last 2000 mainly spiritualy
>>although throughout the ages Jews maintained small communities in cities
>>like Safed,Tiberias,Hebron and Jerusalem and billages in teh Gallilee.
>>
>>You may argue that Israel should return the lands to the Cannanites if
>>you want to fight ownership. Palestinian Arabs are VERY LATE invaders
>>occiupiers who have ENORMOUS NERVE to claim anything in this country.
>
>Please explain the principle by which late invaders have fewer rights
>than early invaders.

Since the Cannanites are the only people who can claim that they have
more rights in the country and since they are not around for more than
3000 years - The Jews were/are the ones who have the best claim to the
territory. Needless to say any of the latter occiupiers didn't establish 
independent or significant center here - and that includes the Arabs.

Their claim is the weakest since they are relative newcomers and their
national identity was formed ONLY AFTER the Jews reclaimed the country.

>>They live here - as Jews live in NY and in Germany: Jews don't claim
>>NY or Germany as a NATIONAL home. they have rights as individuals - no
>>rights as a nation. The Fiction of Plaestinian nation is one of the
>>greatest tricks in propaganda the 20th century experienced.
>
>I am perfectly happy for the Jews of the world to decide amongst
>themselves whether or not they form a "nation".  I think that the
>Palestinians have the same right.  Just because their "nation"hood
>is a more recent development than that of the Jews doesn't make it
>less real.

The Arabs of Palestine are part of the Arab nation. The redefinition of
2 Arab "nations" the Jordanian and Palestinian ones was done in the sole 
aim to stall the forming of a Jewish presnce "in the heart of the Arab
World". I think that pedant application of the "Self Determination"
principle of W. Wilson is hazardous and is causing turbulence in the 
world ever since it's been stated. After all who could prevent the Arabs
holding Arab pasports to declare that there is yet another Arab people
in Israel "Galilleans" that would not suffice in the Palestinian State
that will be founded in the WB & GS and demand a "Gallilean State" in
the Gallilee which has already >50% Arab population.

They might claim that they are not Palestinian - they have a slightly 
different dialect and slightly different customs and folklore. Bingo
- The Arabs can have another piece of the Jewish land.

I think Palestinians of today have no significant difference to what is
called "Jordanian people". They are one people and they already share a
state that has a transplante dmobarch from the Arab peninsula in it.

Trying to "simulate a seoperate nation" is just propaganda trick which
gained success even in the Israeli public and threatens to destroy Israel.

>>                                                             There was
>>no such thing - they were "Syrians of the South" and no more than that.
>>many Arabs from all over the Arab world Egypt,Sudan,Syria flowed into
>>the country since the 1910s - they have not the flimisiest right to
>>sit here on the expense of prosecuted Jews who finally came to rest.
>
>I see, the Massive Recent Immigration myth.  It has been debunked so
>many times that it must take some courage to still believe it.
>Congratulations.

Maybe you can enlighten me with references since I haven't had the
pleasure of seeing these "debunktions". 

>>The Arabs that sat here before the Jews came will be welcome as Israeli
>>citizens (and are welcomed) - they have no national rights here.
>
>So all the Arabs who have recent ancestors who lived in modern-Israel
>are welcome to return as citizens?  I didn't expect such a concession
>from you.

No, they are not!

If they were sitting in the country peacefully and not trying to throw
the Jews into the sea - noone would have dreamt to deport them. Since
they made a gross and TRAGIC (for them that is) mistake and decided to
rob the Jews of their land and throw them into the sea, they must face
the price of their deeds. As did the Germans of Posen and Sudeten after
WWII, as did the Indians and Pakistanis in 1948 and as did the Turks and
the Greeks in the Balkans in the 1900s.

I do not offer any "reversal of the time wheel" now, nor does any sane
Israeli. They lost their rights by either stupidity or maliciousness of
themselves. I will not give them the opportunity to try again.

I know that many Palestinians were not malicious at all, rather they
were frightened and misled by Arabs and Jews (and British). They are
not at fault of their people's stupid/malicious behaviour. But this 
could be said of the kids that died in the bombings of Dresden and
Hiroshima and yet these are the woes of war - and trying to reverse
them by force/pressure will yield only more of the same thing.

>
>>David.
>
>Brendan.

David.
-- 
=============================================================================
  David Ben-Ami (irc: bigdav)      |   "I can resist anything but Temptation"
  s2780369@Techst02.Technion.Ac.Il |       Oscar Wilde
  davidba@Carmel.Technion.Ac.Il  davidba@Moav.Techniona.Ac.Il