From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: On Banning Private Discrimination
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 07:07:59 GMT

In article <JTURNER.92Jul26175632@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu> jturner@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Jeffrey Turner) writes:
}In article <1992Jul26.050452.12439@genie.slhs.udel.edu> starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr) writes:
}>   Additionally, blacks committed more crime
}>   (as they unfortunately still do) than whites.
}
}	This is absolutely false, by any measure.

I'd like to reference that, si vous plait.

}>   But it's precisely that profit-maximization
}>   I'm counting on.  There's only 30 bigots, so
}>   they can and will only buy 30 houses.  That
}>   leaves 70 left over, and in order to maximize
}>   those profits, the housing industry will end
}>   up having to deal with the minority.  Otherwise
}>   they'll lose money on empty houses.
}
}	Individual landlords or builders don't own
}all 100 houses.  Each, in trying to maximize his/her
}own profits will go after the 90 non-Tasmanians rather
}than the 70 non-bigots, leaving the least desirable
}housing stock to the Tasmanians, especially if for
}historical reasons the Tasmanians are of less than
}average wealth or if as we've posited the bigots will
}pay a premium for segregated housing.

Hmm.  I'll have to sleep on that.  I can't think of any objection yet, but
I'll have to consider it more before I fully accept it.

}Gordon Fitch wrote:
}>>>>   Remember
}>>>>   also that, as noted in the previous article,
}>>>>   the Tasmanians have less money, and the less
}>>>>   money you have, the more you pay per item.
}>>>>   Check supermarkets in slums versus suburban
}>>>>   areas for confirmation of this.
}
}>>>   This may be empirically true, but irrelevant
}>>>   to a free market, as our slums are far from this.
}
}	Nothing empirical can now nor could ever be
}said of free markets.  "Free markets" are a theoretical
}construct without a very large political base except
}as a club to impoverish those who are politically
}powerless.

Hmm?  Smacks of the analytic-synthetic dichotomy, in which case we have a
philosophical disagreement.  As a matter of fact, however, free markets have
been approximated sufficiently in the past for empirical study of them to
be possible.  This stuff about clubbing the "politically powerless" is irrele-
vant nonsense.

}>>   In the case of supermarkets?  How?
}
}>   Another example is how, at least
}>   in CA, hundreds of thousands of pounds of nectarines
}>   are being destroyed by government order because
}>   they're just too small for the instrument to meet
}>   size regulations.  Trained pickers can't tell they're
}>   too small, but consumers are being robbed of their right
}>   to choose for themselves based upon their own
}>   judgement.  Ahh, the myriad ways!
}
}	Trained pickers is a smoke screen, picking nectarines
}is not remunerated well enough to justify this self-serving
}blather.  Nectarine pickers are not skilled professionals.
}The implicit part of the argument, that supermarket prices
}in low-income neighborhoods would be lower if the people
}there had the "opportunity" to buy smaller nectarines does
}not refute the argument that they pay more for goods of the
}same quality.

Excuse me?  You're starting to follow Cicero's advice ("When you have no case,
abuse the plaintiff") in committing the ad hominem of claiming that what I
wrote is "self serving blather."  I know better than to require politeness -
it's out of my power - but you should be able to do better!

As a matter of fact, I was closely paraphrasing an article in the S.F. Chroni-
cle, a pretty good paper, although imperfect.  It seems quite reasonable to
me to expect that those with experience picking nectarines would be in a good
position to tell whether or not the size difference was significant.  It's
doesn't require the modern equivalent of a medieval guild certificate,
"professional" status, to tell this.

In addition to refraining from rudeness, you would also do well to pay closer
attention.  Mr. Fitch claimed that grocery prices in poor neighborhoods are
generally higher than elsewhere.  I accepted this for the sake of argument
because I don't know anything to the contrary.  However, my position was that
statist intervention prevents this from occurring under free market conditions,
whether it would or not (I'm uncertain), and that this intervention tends to
inflate grocery prices.  The nectarines were cited as an example.  I selected
them for their relevancy, a quality which appears to be missing from some of
your comments.

}>   I thought you were trying to prove that private discrimination under the
}>   sort of conditions I've given would be economically detrimental to minorities.
}>   I accept the viciousness of prejudice, but I defend the right of bigots to
}>   act on their prejudice so long as it's peaceful.
}
}	He was, he did.
}
}>   Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
}
}	Selfishness has only achieved a world in the condition
}it's in now, I do not see how more of it would be a corrective.
}Anyone who thinks that those in power have not been acting
}selfishly is deluded.

You don't know what you're talking about.  It's that simple.  If you ever
acquire curiosity, I'll be happy to assist you in informing your opinions in
whatever way I'm able.

}>   "True greatness consists in the use of a powerful
}>   understanding to enlighten oneself and others."
}>					- Voltaire
}
}	Trying to convince others that what is in your political
}and economic self-interest is not only in theirs but the only
}true and right way to organize society - especially when it
}is not very much of a change of course for a rapidly deteriorating
}world - is not enlightenment but its opposite.
}
}					--Jeff Turner

Mr. Turner, this is nonsense.  If you'd care to elaborate your position, and
substantiate your claims, I'll be happy to discuss them, but unsupported
assertions carry little weight.


Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Voltaire
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc