HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hannah@pomponio.ai.sri.com (Marsha Jo Hannah)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Seatbelts in Buggies?
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:31:37 GMT
	<3SEP199213293279@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, CA
In-reply-to: broy@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu's message of 3 Sep 92 19:29:00 GMT

In article <3SEP199213293279@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu> broy@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu (Barbara Roy) writes:

   What was the reason that seat belts in buggies were deemed dangerous? Is it
   because people are expected to abandon the horse and buggy when an accident
   is imminent?

   Barbara Roy

There are a number of problems.  Most carriages don't include roll
cages, and most runaway/wrecks include the carriage either flipping or
disintegrating.  I think I would far rather be thrown clear than (for
instance) land on my head with the carriage (to which my butt was
attached by a seatbelt) on top, driving me into the ground.  Then,
too, after the first crash, the horse often gets up and takes off
dragging what's left of the carriage (sideways, or whatever).  I'd
rather be on the ground, waving goodbye at that point.  In the higher
levels of combined driving (international 4-in-hands), some drivers
have gone to a harness to help them stay in position in the seat, but
the rules explicitly *forbid* that it be attached firmly to the
carriage---the securing strap is usually wrapped once around a strut,
with the end of it *held* by the driver's groom.

Under no circumstances should a child or other animal (e.g. dog) be
belted or tied into a carriage!  Think what could happen if the driver
got bounced out at the beginning of a runaway....

Marsha Jo Hannah		Murphy must have been a horseman--
La Honda, CA			anything that can go wrong, will!
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: brandyt@microsoft.com (Barbara Brandy Thorp)
Subject: Stall Floors
Date: 07 Sep 92 20:45:40 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Keywords: Bedding? Mats? Drainage?

We just got a house with a barn.  The stall floors are
concrete and totally uneven.  The concrete continues
up the wall about 6-8".  The previous owners used
stall mats and shavings, but it seems to me that
without drainage, everything is just going to get
really smelly, unless I spend ALL my free time
wrestling with the mats and shoveling wet shavings.

I read the Sept Practical Horseman about just using
mats.  If I used sand to even out the floor and then
mats, and did something so that the wet stuff could 
drain, would that be comfortable enough for ~ 8 
hours a day stall time?  (of course mucking out
the solid stuff) 

Which mats do you prefer?  Some look solid and others
are perforated...

How hard is it to drill through concrete to add drainage
holes?  Would it be prudent to get a concrete person out
to look at it?  Anything else I should be worried about?

Thanks in advance!
..brandyt (and Pajtas - Soon to be coming HOME!)

ps - I'm looking for another horse to board here... If you 
are looking in the Bridle Trails area of Seattle WA...
From: kloomis@cco.caltech.edu (Kate E. Loomis)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Biting
Date: 11 Sep 92 02:21:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

cosborn@dante.nmsu.edu (Cecelia Osborn) writes:

>I have used the cork and needle method of curing biting, especially
>horses that bite while being led. I have always been taught that
>slapping the horse on the shoulder won't work, the shoulder did not
>bite you, but maybe I am not fast enough. After the horse pokes
>himself a few times, they seem to be less interested in biting the
>person leading the horse. I have noticed that colts seem to be more
>prone to nipping than fillys are, has anyone else noticed this?
>:w

I think effectiveness of the remedy (ie., slapping the 
shoulder, or what not) depends in large part WHY the horse is
doing what it's doing, and how SMART the horse is. The cork and
needle thing would probably deter any horse from biting you, as
the cause-effect relationship is pretty obvious, but it may not
cure the reason behind the vice. If the horse is biting you to
try to "show you who's boss", you need to demonstrate to the horse
that YOU are the boss. I've worked with a particularly nasty 
horse that ALWAYS tried nip or bite or disobey in any way because
he didn't want to work (and I think it was habitual). The first
time he took a swipe at me, I punched him HARD on the neck - yes,
it scared the heck out of him, but he knew why I did it, and 
he sure didn't try to bite me again. A horse that just nips, and
maybe doesn't realize he's even doing it wouldn't understand 
a slap on the neck or nose, and would be more likely to become
headshy.

kate
From: Dave@phoenix.sch.symbolics.com (David A. Bentzen)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Can You Believe...
Date: 9 Sep 1992 12:39:57 -0400
Organization: BBN news/mail gateway
Reply-To: equestrians@world.std.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.bbn.com

    Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 20:12 PDT
    From: infonode!blythedr@uunet.uu.net (Dennis Blythe)


      A few weeks ago my ferrier came out to put shoes on my mare. My
    horse acts terrible when it comes to shoeing  She has only been through 
    this a few times so I am sure it is still a frightening experience 
    for her. He tied her to a post that was rotting, and of coarse my 
    mare did act up and pulled the post out of the ground. After the 
    ferrier left I had noticed a day later that there was a 
    deep hole left in the ground where the post had been. He did not bother 
    to mention to me that this hole was there, and I had not noticed it 
    there for at least a day. I can't imagine what would have happened if 
    my horse would have stepped in it.

	Figuring that it was an honest mistake I just brushed it off. Well 
    this morning it was time to be reshoed and I was not able to be there 
    to watch them do it  ( Needed to be in the house w/ baby.) I got out my 
    binoculars only to see him injecting my horse with a tranquilizer. I 
    understand that at times it is nesesary to do this to prevent the horse 
    and ferrier from geting hurt when she acts up. I was hoping that when the 
    job was done that he would mention to me that he needed to do this. But 
    he never did. So finally I asked him if he ever needed to tranquilize a 
    horse before and he said "yes" I then asked him for the name of the drug
    that he used on her for fear that she might have a reaction to it.

       What has me so fumed is that he would have not of mentioned it to me 
    if I had not wittnesed it. And if my horse were to have a bad reaction 
    to it I would not have been able to identify why. Well this is it. I am 
    now looking for a good ferrier, though what upsets me is that he has 
    had a lot of experience in shoeing, though it is his ethics that are 
    in question to me. Good ferriers are hard to find around here.


      Any suggestions or comments?

Find another farrier.  This person had no business injecting your horse
with anything.
From: ckw0@aber.ac.uk (Carl Keri Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Sending a "history" with a horse at sale????
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:44:53 GMT
Organization: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

In article <9209031323.AA05291@watnow.uwaterloo.ca> rmvale@watnow.uwaterloo.ca (Ruth Vale) writes:
>
>1.  The police and the Mennonite community need to work together
>    to test buggy driver skills.  Children as young as 14yrs.
>    drive these horses on the road without formal training of
>    any kind.  I've seen pony carts piled with a half dozen
>    kids trotting down the road.  The vast majority of buggy
>    horses are safe and bombproof - trotting quietly beside
>    a speeding 18 wheeler as if it wasn't there.
>
>
>Ruth    

In the UK, there is a 'Riding and Road Safety Test' which all youngsters
are encouraged to train for and sit if they are members of the Pony Club, and
which most Riding Club members also take.  For most 'formal' riding 
qualifications, it is compulsory to hold the road safety certificate first.

Before taking the test, you have to attend formal training session, then the
actual test is split into three parts.  First there is a 'quiz' where you
have to score 8 out of 10 to be allowed to continue.  This is based on the 
Highway code and general safety awareness.  Then there is a ridden section
held in a 'safe' area with mock hazards which you have to ride around and 
give the correct signals, take the correct line, etc, and show general 
competence at being able to ride a horse safely.  If you pass this test, 
you are allowed on a piece of actual road (with a change of horse if the
examiner feels that the horse you rode in the second part was not safe to 
be on the highway) where you will meet real hazards and be expected to deal
with them competently.  Before the start of the test, your saddlery and riding
gear are checked for safety (you must have a hat to the correct standard, 
well fitting saddlery with no rotten stitches, no bare arms, suitable 
footware (they mean boots....) etc.

I actually got pulled up for not having a noseband (I had hacked 15 miles to
the venue and was using a headcollar under the bridle.)  The embarrassing
thing was that the next month I went on a British Horse Society long distance 
ride and they had the same tack examiner, who coolly noted that I STILL did 
not appear to have a noseband...  

Anyway, the point I was trying to make was that in the UK, there is a 
recognised test which all horse riders are encouraged to take, and was there
a similar scheme in the States?  or anywhere else? 


Esther, Rickie, Mari and baby Non
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| "If God had meant for us to work, then I'm sure he  | ckw0@uk.ac.aberystwyth|
|  would have given us jobs..."  ...                  | ckw0@uk.ac.aber.cs    |
| "Sign on you crazy diamond" - Half man half biscuit |      tardis ?         |
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: cosborn@dante.nmsu.edu (Cecelia Osborn)
Subject: Diesel Dodge Pick Up
Organization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:07:16 GMT

 The Diesel Dodge with the Cummins Turbo Diesel is the superior
pulling engine for trailers, especially with a 5 speed tranmission
The gas mileage is excellent 26+ in town and 20 to 22+ with the
trailer loaded. The Cummins Diesel is a true diesel not a gasoline
engine converted to the diesel, as the the chevrolet 6.2 liter
diesel and the ford diesel (the are both converted gas engines)

No flames now, but I pull my inline trailer with a s-15 GMC pickup.
I do not have trouble stopping it, electric brakes, and it pulls well.
The Stidham inline (2 horse) was designed to be pulled by a car or
small vehicle. With the wheels in the front and in the back the trailer
is extremely stable, no swaying at 65 mph when being passed by a semi,
etc. I is a very balanced trailer and a good follower, alot better than
some I have pulled. It sure is lousy to back up though. The front end
turns around like a farm trailer, backing best in a circle.
From: mlauer@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Mary E. Lauer)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Looking for Dressage-H/J Barn in No. VA
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:00:50 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

Hi.

I've been lurking on this group for many months now, and thought
I might post this inquiry to see what responses I get.

I am moving back to the Northern Virginia area (Alexandria to be
exact) and will actually have a job again! (Finally getting out of
grad school!) Anyway, I am looking for a barn to take lessons at.

I have done some Hunter/Jumper stuff here in Indiana when I have had
the time and money (not very steadily in other words) and would
like to find somewhere to continue work in that area, as well as
hopefully starting to do dressage.

My riding level I would class as Advanced Beginner, perhaps ...
I have done some jumping (maybe in the 2' or 2'3"-2'6" range), 
including some small courses, but I don't really feel comofortable
riding without a trainer/instructor around.

If anyone knows of a barn in the No. VA area that gives lessons on this
level that they would recommend, I'd appreciate hearing about it.

Post or email as you see fit.

Oh yes, I don't own a horse, so I would need a barn with school horses,
maybe I'll lease one as I improve. :)

Thanks in advance for your help.
Mary Lauer
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
   Mary Lauer			|         Marra@PernMUSH
   mlauer@ecn.purdue.edu	|
   Aero/Astro Engineering	|      Instant gratification
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: mary@cairo.watson.ibm.com (Mary McHugh)
Subject: Re: National Horse Show - question
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 19:01:48 GMT
Reply-To: mary@cairo.watson.ibm.com (Mary McHugh)
Organization: IBM TJ Watson Home for Tired Hackers

Hi... I have the ticket order form but not with me.  I won't be able to post
until Monday, so unless someone else can help out before then, look for
my post monday.
BTW, it is always the 1st week in November (sometimes starting on the last
Tuesday in October).  I think the dates this year are Tues. Nov 3 thru Sun
Nov 8.  I'll also post the general schedule.  The most expensive tickets are
$25.00. (unless you want to spring for a table ;-).
Mary McHugh
From: laurie@madre.dasd.honeywell.com
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: RE:TRUCKS
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:34:26 GMT
Organization: Honeywell Inc. DASD
Nntp-Posting-User: laurie

I've been reading this newsgroup for a few months but this is the first time
I've posted.  This is my $.02 in the truck/trailer discussion, since the
posts so far have all been full-size-big-engine-truck recommendations.  I
think there are more possibilities.  I personally can't afford a separate
towing vehicle, don't like pickups, and prefer something smaller than a
Suburban (maybe a tank? ;) ).

I haul around town on the freeway with about 1 out-of-town trip a year:
A two-horse trailer with my '89 Jeep Cherokee, getting 20mpg normally
and 15 when hauling.  The Jeep has the 4.0l in-line 6cyl, (automatic)
and I've had no trouble hauling up hills, but of course I don't race
right up them either.  Like others have said, I don't use overdrive.

The trailer is a Rice that's aluminum over steel, fibreglass roof,
and aerodynamic front. It's pretty lightweight--only 1300 lbs.  I also only
ever haul one horse (can't possibly afford >1), who weighs about 1100-1200
lbs (16.1 Th hunter).  The total that I pull then is about 2600lbs, with
tack inside the Jeep.  The Jeep's curb weight is 4200 lbs so what I'm
pulling doesn't weigh more than the vehicle.  I think that's a key to
hauling with a smaller vehicle.  The trailer pulls and stops easily.

So that's my experience, in my situation.

Laurie
(And Mo)
"My opinions are my own and have nothing to do with Honeywell."
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon)
Subject: Re: quarter sheets
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:46:14 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.015428.27728@news.arc.nasa.gov>,
howland@noc.arc.nasa.gov (Curtis Howland) writes:
>|> >Does anyone out there use a Quarter Sheet for winter/cold weather riding?
>
>An old friend in Mass told me that horses as a group do not need
>blankets and such, but that once they started wearing one, their
>metabolism adjusted so that they needed to be covered ever after.
>
>True or false? (and all variations between, of course....)
>
>Curt

Of course, out on the range, they have the time to adapt to
slowly-changing weather conditions. Wild horses don't go from barn
to ring, or from standing in a stall to being worked. But since we
subject them to such unnatural (and odd) sudden changes of
environment, they need our help to allow them to adjust without
injury/discomfort. Just like we need to put on coats when we go from
a heated office to a snowy street, etc. etc.

Make sense?

=gwyn
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Subject: Re: Trucks & Transmissions for Towing Horses
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
	<gc6ykkh@rpi.edu>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 18:01:22 GMT


When I said light trucks need automatics to tow over a ton,
by "light truck" I meant non-commercial full-size pickups
like the Ford F150, Chevy 1500, and the like. When we were
hunting a twoing truck, the highest either of these would
tow with a manual was 2200 pounds. The clutches of these
"1/2 ton" pickups burn out very quickly under larger loads.

I admit, the Ford F250/F350 and it's commercial-class competitors may 
have heavier clutches on their manual transmissions. But I'd check the
manufacturers specs before you buy.

However, let me add that when my wife was getting her degree
in Animal Husbandry-Horses, they taught that an automatic
was safer to tow with : no clutch to worry about when braking,
no need to downshift when emergency power is needed, and smooth
starts from rest. And when you hit that REALLY steep hill,
you'll apreciate the torque converter !

The only advantage I see to a manual is fuel economy. And if
your towing what my wife calls a "steel parachute" (i.e.
a horse trailer) you're not going to get good fuel economy.

So we believe in automatic trannies for towing, even when a
manual might have the capacity.

--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: sknopp@vax (KNOPP, SHERRON)
Subject: Re: trucks?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Williams College Center for Computing
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 02:17:00 GMT

>       I have one question though..what about distance?  I'm
>   probably mistakenly labouring under a provincial attitude that
>   those of us out in the wide open spaces have to go further to get
>   anywhere, but wouldn't that be a deciding factor as well? My average
>   trip is a 70 mile round trip (for lessons), and that's done once
>   a week.  A pleasure day-ride is anywhere from 50-200 miles
>   roudn trip, once or twice a month.
>       What kind of mileage does everyone usually put on their
>   trailer??  It would be interesting to know.
>                                         Margaret (hauler)
>                                         and Kaiser (haulee)

Well I live in cozy New England.  But I trailer 130 miles round trip
every week for lessons and another 130 miles round trip (+ or -) for
shows, also every week with only occasional breaks.  I haul with a
Chevy S-10 Blazer, V-6, 4.3 liter enhanced (whatever that means)
engine automatic with heavy duty towing package--and in 5 years
anyway no problems (= 86,000 miles).  
                                          Sherron (hauler)
                                    and Judy/Belles Saisons (haulee)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon)
Subject: Re: need help with stubborn horse
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 21:53:30 GMT

In article <Bu2M3p.631@news.larc.nasa.gov>,
patty@alpha.larc.nasa.gov (Patty Howell) writes:
>
> It is difficult to say from what you have told us, but let me suggest a few
> exercises to see if this is indeed the problem. Working on a LOOSE rein
> (think of your horse as a western cow pony), can you play with the horse's
> balance? Try some short turns, no larger than say about 5m. (working at the
> canter, by the way) Can you stop on a dime?

Patty, I agree totally with what you say about the fact that this
horse is unbalanced....BUT. As a side note to the origninal poster
(whose name I don't remember), PLEASE don't expect your horse to
"stop on a dime"! I think you said this horse was green, and a green
horse isn't going to be able to balance well from the canter the the
trot, let alone to the walk or halt. Especially if the horse is
built "downhill" or is lazy. Don't rip his face off trying to get a
fast halt. A gradual but correct and listening downward transition
through a couple of trot strides and a walk stride or two would be
more valuable.  Most importantly, like Patty says,

> This is training for the shows a year or two
> (or ten) from now, not the show next month.

He'll get it, but it's a long slow process. And frustrating! But
good luck, and use those half-halts!!

=gwyn
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon)
Subject: Re: A Basic Glossary
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:44:07 GMT

In article <1992Sep08.220231.39855@watson.ibm.com>,
mary@cairo.watson.ibm.com (Mary McHugh) writes:
>
>Same divisions, different terminology.  Here the Modifieds go to 4'6" while
>they do have (again, at some shows) the Low Jr-A/O which is 3'9 - 4'0.  I'm
>pretty sure that the regular Jr.-A/O's can't go in the Low A/O's, but I'll
>double check.

So let me get this straight -- where you are it's:
1) Low Children's/Low AA's (at some shows) -- 3'0"
2) Children's/AA -- 3'6"
3) Low Jr-A/A -- 3'9" - 4'0"
4) Modified Jr-A/O -- 4'0" - 4'6"
5) Junior/A/O -- 4'3" - 4'9" (?)

Is this right? In CA it's like this:
1) Low Children's/AA (some shows) -- 3'0"
2) Children's/AA -- 3'6"
3) Jr-Amateur Modified -- 3'6" - 4'0"
4) Junior/A/O -- 4'0" - 4'9"

I wonder why the east and west coasts don't have the same divisions?
No wonder people don't go back east too often -- we can't decipher
the prize lists!! Also, when you have a lot of entries I'd think the
jumper ring would go FOREVER. It certainly does here.

Oh, I forgot, cross entries! Here, if you're in Children's or AA's,
you can cross-enter into the Modified, but you can't enter any
jumper class that offers money. <DUHH! MAYBE THAT'S WHY THEY DON'T
OFFER ANY! (Can you believe I just figured that out?)> If you're in
Juniors or A/O's, you can cross-enter into the Modified too. So
that's why the AA's and the A/O's collide here, while they don't
where you are (you have a "buffer" division of sorts).

>And then, some are beginning to do it at the 3'6" level, too.
>The girl who won the M&S at Shallowbrook (CT) left four, count 'em, four
>strides
>out of the last line (down hill at that!).  Granted, it was a bending line, but
>everyone else only left two strides out.  I turned to my trainer and we

Yes, it seems to me that, especially at the smaller shows where the
fences aren't too imposing, a lot of people can get away with being
sloppy at 3'6". It's too bad that the AA divisions (supposedly for
beginners) can be abused by people who just want to win.  They
should be moving up and on, but instead they stay in the low jumpers
and literally run away with all the ribbons.

It reminds me of this girl I remember, who showed at the rated shows
and got, like, 4ths. But whenever she could, she'd go to any
schooling show within 50 miles, and win every class. Why bother? OF
COURSE she outclassed them, but it seemed unfair and
unsportsmanlike. ACK! PFFFT!

=gwyn