From: sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:48:17 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <ceYKrJq00Vp44dCX0n@andrew.cmu.edu>, 
 William Henry Timmins <wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

I said:
>>Ah ha, but what if a player can convince you that it makes sense that 
>>something IS there when you had decided (or were in the process of 
>>deciding) that there wasn't something there? Or what if the players 
>>together try to influence these kinds of decisions? GMs aren't immune
>>to peer pressure. I am not saying you have a problem with this, these 
>>are general arguments. 

Then Timmins said: 
> What if I made a mistake? What if in my preparations, I had forgotten
> to consider <bla>?

I've never had a problem with overlooking something that directly impacts
the campaign or scenario. Since the scenario (and some of the campaign) is
mapped out in advance, it's fairly easy to make sure all the ``anchors''
of the scenario are in place. Also, since the scenario is created over
the course of several days, you can examine the plot from several angles
to make sure everything is covered. Now, if I overlook some minor detail, 
then I can improv that. One of the strengths of using both things is that 
they compliment each other. But going into everything on the fly opens up 
every single point of the scenario to player influence.

> If the players have a problem with something that is happening, saying
> that 'Well, that's just how things are' isn't likely to be more
> compelling. You are still the one who made the stuff up. 

But in a prepared scenario there is the sense that the characters are
in an environment that existed before they were there, and that they
can't change things just by being unhappy about it. In order to be 
rewarded, they have to do the right things at the right times. 

Which would be more rewarding to players -- finding something because
they convinced the GM there should be something there -- or -- finding 
something because there was something there and they figured out where
is was? 

>>> Actually, I am known among players at CMU as one of the top two GMs...
>>
>>And?
> 
> Quoting out of context? This came after:
>>And people who wing it are too lazy or unorganized to prepare things in
>>advance. As they get more mature and in control of their lives, they 
>>find time to prepare meaningful, epic-like campaigns, for which their
>>players will eternally remember them. 
> 
> ie- people regard my stuff as memorable and meaningful. So improve does
> work. I don't know if you detected the connection...

Well maybe not. I just posted the inverse of what I thought was a joke --
``Improv GMs are just more talented..''

> Railroading is forcing the players to do something they don't want to
> do, or don't think their characters would do, simply because they are
> deviating from the plot. It can be subtle or overt... I think you
> improvise enough for it not to be a problem.

No, I think I am just in tune with what the players like and what the 
characters would want to do. The characters are constantly giving me all
sorts of feedback -- what they liked, what they didn't like, what they 
want to do next. The portions of the game world I prepare are just more
interesting than the parts that I don't prepare.

> I don't improvise because they are doing things too quickly, I
> improvise so that things remain very flexible. Besides, I make the world
> and the NPCs... there is enough room to guide things without forcing
> them into one plan of action.

I don't force anything. I'm doing what the players want to do, but they
can't do everything at once, so I have plenty of advance notice to take
care of their wants and goals.

> Hmm.
> Improv: +flexibility, -chaotic, Allows many threads to be handled, Can
> get confusing.
> Prep: +structured, -narrow, Allows organized 'reality', Can be too narrow.

Good summary. Prep scenarios can be too narrow, but I'd argue that it's
easier to make a prep campaign flexible than it would be to make an 
improv campaign organized.

Okay,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chadd VanZanten SL9B4@CC.USU.EDU  ``You know, I thought this was a
good idea but this is one weird mama-jama.''  -- TV's Frank, MST3K