From: kapa@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (k.a.perkins)
Subject: Re: Sanctity of relationships
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 19:51:58 GMT
Followup-To: soc.couples

In article <1992Apr12.063451.9244@ultra.com>, stcroix@ultra.com (Bill St. Croix) writes:
> In article <1992Apr9.173110.24380@cbfsb.cb.att.com> sms@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (steven.m.stein) writes:
> >Hank Janssen writes
>  
> >You apparently do not agree, but I do not feel or believe for a 
> >millisecond that I am "incharge" of women and I do not "order" women
> >to date me or to leave who ever they might be seeing.
> 
> I'm glad you feel this way.
> 
> >I do not create the unhappy or unfulfilling relationship they might
> >be involved in.  I simply might approach a women (not knowing whether
> >she is or is not involved in a relationship) and simply express an
> >interest in getting to know her better.  If she agrees, that's her
> >choice.  
> 
> Oh....so basically you don't care if she is involved with someone or not,
> nor do you care what level of involvement there may be.
> 
> Forgive me, but it sounds like a scenario of "Get some...at any cost."

You're the one who equates "getting to know her better" with
"get some ... at any cost".  That says something about you.

> See Steve, you ARE involved though.  It doesn't mean that you are sleeping
> with her...but if you express an interest and she leaves the other guy, then
> you dare partially (not wholly) at fault.

Or partially to credit.  Sometimes people are happier leaving bad
relationships than they are staying.

> An analogy (Steve, you'll like this one...:+)):
> 
> Your at work...and you have an interest in a co-workers job (more money, better
> benefits).  You see the co-worker do something less than ethical (stealing
> or whatever) so you go to your boss and tell him.  The guy gets fired and you
> get his job.  Whose fault is it that the guy lost his job?? 
> 
> I say...it is MAINLY his fault for doing something so stupid.  But it is also
> your fault because you went and told on him for your personal gain.  You 
> could have gone to him and told him you saw what he was doing and that you
> would tell if he didn't put it back.  The reason that I used stealing is
> because it is generally a *morals* issue.  Many people look the other way 
> when they see something like that happen, many don't.

On the other hand, you didn't make the boss fire the worker.  With
the information at hand and taking into account company policy, the
boss chose to fire the worker rather than overlook the stealing.
Your analogy is perhaps farfetched and it makes the case for the
opposite point of view than the one you espouse.  Also, you leave
out the aspect of
choice on the part of all concerned.  The worker chose to steal,
analogous to developing a shakey relationship with the company.  You
chose to bring this information to the attention of the boss (shed
new light/information on the bad state of the relationship that
existed independent of your own actions), and the boss chose to
terminate the relationship based on the new information and perhaps
other information that you were not aware of (previous history of
stealing, other unsatisfactory performance that weakened the
relationship between the boss/company and the worker).
So, you perhaps had impure motives, but others had choices to make,
and perhaps encouraged by your actions, something you have no way
of knowing unless they tell you, they made their own choices.
The boss could have decided to give the worker another chance but
didn't.

> It may not be a *perfect* analogy (don't worry, Steve will pick it apart), but
> analogies are to represent something with a clear, related example.
Yes, yours proves the opposite of your own point.
> >NO, I wouldn't be happy....but I should have thought about her needs
> >before ****** I ****** (and I can't emphasise the word "I" enough)
> >drove her away.  It's not that the guy took or stole her from me, it's
> >that "I" drove her away.  Understand????
> 
> Oh...so you marry a virgin and you are the only one she has ever slept
> with.  Another guy comes along and she sleeps with him. She has a wonderful
> time and "never thought that sex could feel so wonderful" and leaves you.
> That is your fault for driving her away?

No, it was your fault for being so crummy in bed that you never
figured out how to satisfy her. 1/2 :)
Xref: sparky alt.romance:6832 soc.singles:10800 soc.couples:1996