HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: slick@netcom.com (Martin Veneroso)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Cameo Club Update
Date: 13 Sep 92 17:12:06 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

mitch@lsil.com (Mitch Sako) writes:

>I stopped by the Cameo to checkout the no-limit holdem games this weekend
>and to my surprise, they have changed the holdem games, for the worse.  It
>seems that the city council of Palo Alto has gotten into the act and has
>really screwed them over.  The first change is that time collections are now
>collected on the button and chopped from the pot instead of being paid on
>the half hour.  Although this is probably a change for the better it doesn't
>play out that way.

OK, I'm probably going to expose myself as a chip-burning neophyte for
opining on this, but I stopped in at the Cameo yesterday for a little
2-4 holdem for the first time since _before_ they started the now-defunct
jackpots junk, and I kind of like the change in time collections.  I say
this even though it cost me money:  I only played for 80 minutes, which
would have cost me $10.50 by the old $3.50 per half hour scheme, but I
won eight pots and so I "payed" $16 in "rake" from the house taking the
button's $2 forced opener -- this ignores the fact that the player on the
button may have folded before the flop on some of those hands under the
old rules.  Still, in spite of the extra $5.50 it cost me to play for the
80 minutes, I think that the new structure will allow tighter play without
being eaten up by the time collection, in a way similar to the Nevada rake
structure.  Granted, at the Cameo the rake is $2 regardless of the puny size
of the pot, but I think (after this short exposure) that this is a step in
the right direction.

>The second change (and most brutal) is that the games are all limited now
>to eight players.  Heck, I thought the Garden City was bad news at nine 
>handed but now, eight handed?  Get real.  The city council must be on the
>payroll of Artichoke Joes AND the Garden City.

I agree whole-heartedly on this count.  In fact, this tends to lessen what
I perceive as the advantage of the change in time collection, by making
for more small pots from which the $2 rake is a significant chunk.

BTW, I seem to recall reading some months ago that the Cameo was living on
borrowed time, and that the zoning for the property on which it sits is due
to be changed (or perhaps the current zoning regs enforced) in such a way
as to force the card room to close.  Can anyone back this up, or did it
occur in some sort of dream sequence?

-- 
Martin Veneroso
slick@netcom.com
Jung'f vg gb ln?
jneybeqf fhpx fjbeqf
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall)
Subject: Re: multi-action BJ
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 18:00:07 GMT

In article <JACOBS.92Sep15094043@cells.cs.utah.edu> jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs) writes:
>In article <1992Sep15.133747.19140@mcnc.org> yung@mcnc.org (Edward K. Yung) writes:

>>It is claimed by experts in this newsgroup that the same basic strategy
>>for regular BJ should be used in this game.  My question is related to
>>the bankroll.
>>Suppose my bankroll is Y, and the optimal bet size is X.
>
>If the optimal bet size is X, you should bet about X/3 on each of the
>three spots.  The "true" optimal bet size will be slightly larger than
>this since the bets are not entirely correlated, but this effect is small
>enough that it isn't really worth worrying about.

Um, I get the impression that Mr. Yung is not a card counter.  So note
that the optimal bet size is zero (or negative), or the required bankroll is
infinite, given typical rules on a shoe game and basic strategy without
card counting and a utility function that requires you have some chance
of not losing in the long run.

-- 
Michael Hall            \"If you had hit soft 18, we would have been worried
NASA Ames Research Center\ about you." - unnamed pit critter, after I stood
hall@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov \ on soft 18 versus 9 as a costly cover play.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: ERIC@hup.ucla.edu (Eric J. Splaver)
Subject: Optimal Strategy for Multi-Action BJ?
Keywords: BJ, Multi-Action
Organization: UCLA Honors & Undergraduate Programs
Date: 13 Sep 92 12:36:32 PDT

Is there a consensus on the optimal strategy for Multi-Action BJ?
I've seen some posts advertising that the optimal strategy is the same as 
for single action, while others seem to believe a "busting adverse" strategy 
is better.  If anyone is interested I'd be willing to summarize responses 
and post the summary.  Michael, Steve, what do you think?  

________________________
Eric J. Splaver
eric@hup.ucla.edu
(310) 825-2768
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: mah@cs.UAlberta.CA (Dean S. Mah)
Subject: FAQ for BJ location
Keywords: FAQ, Black Jack
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:19:35 GMT


  Is there a FTP site that I can pick up the FAQ list for Black Jack? Or
  how often is it posted?


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dean S. Mah
University of Alberta
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada               email: mah@cs.ualberta.ca
From: "al sorhaindo" <al.sorhaindo@execnet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: football handicapping
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:21:16 EST
Reply-To: "al sorhaindo" <al.sorhaindo@execnet.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Executive Networks Information

I posted 3 selections for the weekend yesterday. I now have added
two more plays. This gives five recommended wagers for the football
weekend of Sep 12-14, 1992.

** GIANTS      +3  over Dallas
** CLEVELAND   +2- over Miami
 * Va. Tech    +1- over E. Carolina
 * W. Virginia +6- over PITTSBURGH
 * Memphis St  +2- over LOUISVILLE

Wager at your own risk.

Correct money managent would be to only risk 1-2% of your bankroll
per "*". Season record 1-1, +1.9 Units(with Vigorish taken into account.)

                                    Al
---
  DeLuxe 1.21 #11688  al.sorhaindo@execnet.com
--
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: ron@osf.org (Ron Birnbaum)
Subject: Re: SF CA gambling
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 21:33:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.053652.11194@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, mgins@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Ginsberg) writes:
|> I keep hearing about people gambling all across the country on rec.gambling.
|> I spend all my gambling time in either Reno or Las Vegas (a few hour drive
|> from where I am) and was wondering if there was gambling in California in the
|> San Francisco area (I'm in Berkeley).  Respond either via email or to
|> rec.gambling.


  Sure - everyone living in the San Francisco area is gambling!!


|> Thanks alot,


You're welcome!


-Ron "even I in Boston have quake insurance" Birnbaum

|> --Michael Ginsberg, Univ. California at Berkeley CS PhD student
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall)
Subject: Re: Optimal Strategy for Multi-Action BJ?
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:05:31 GMT

In article <JACOBS.92Sep14070429@cells.cs.utah.edu> jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs) writes:
>In article <ERIC.24.0@hup.ucla.edu> ERIC@hup.ucla.edu (Eric J. Splaver) writes:
>>
>>Is there a consensus on the optimal strategy for Multi-Action BJ?
>>I've seen some posts advertising that the optimal strategy is the same as 
>>for single action, while others seem to believe a "busting adverse" strategy 
>>is better.  If anyone is interested I'd be willing to summarize responses 
>>and post the summary.  Michael, Steve, what do you think?  
>
>The correct basic strategy for Multi-Action BJ is the same as for
>"regular" BJ.  The house _wants_ you to use a "busting adverse"
>strategy in order to increase the house edge.  Expensive mistake.

The correct card counting adjusted strategy for Multi-Action BJ is not
the same as "regular" BJ.  Nobody knows what it is, and I don't care
what it is, plus it would be a bitch to do exactly, so I'm not going
to figure it out.  You have to take into account the variance per
round, or more exactly the log-growth of your bankroll.  But true,
basic strategy is not changed, since basic strategy maximizes
expected value, which is the best strategy for negative expected
value games, aside from not playing.

-- 
Michael Hall            \ 
NASA Ames Research Center\ "WTH? HODYGTE,A? AIR?" -- attributed to Jacko  
hall@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov \
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: mgins@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Ginsberg)
Subject: SF CA gambling
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 05:36:52 GMT

I keep hearing about people gambling all across the country on rec.gambling.
I spend all my gambling time in either Reno or Las Vegas (a few hour drive
from where I am) and was wondering if there was gambling in California in the
San Francisco area (I'm in Berkeley).  Respond either via email or to
rec.gambling.

Thanks alot,
--Michael Ginsberg, Univ. California at Berkeley CS PhD student
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Attention Hold'em vultures^H^H^H^Hexperts
Date: 14 Sep 92 20:25:32 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <1992Sep13.020839.13098@RedBrick.COM>, jfr@glitter.RedBrick.COM writes:

|   You may find check-and-raise frowned on in "polite" Friday night
|   social poker.  However, it is a vital part of the strategy of
|   poker and should always be permitted.  The best players are
|   commanders of check-and-raise strategies.  

  There is no less strategy involved in no check and raise, just
different strategy. If you bet big you may not get a raise, if you bet
small you still might not get a raise and don't even get the max bet out
of people.

  A "friendly" game usually has a limit on the number of raises, because
without it any two plays can raise each other and turn it into a table
stakes game.

-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
    I admit that when I was in school I wrote COBOL. But I didn't compile.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: weinstoc@sei.cmu.edu (Chuck Weinstock)
Subject: Re: LVA = Vegas in December
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:31:08 GMT


A quick reminder: rec.gamblers can get a discounted subscription to the Las
Vegas Advisor.  Contact me for details.



Chuck Weinstock				weinstock@sei.cmu.edu
Software Engineering Institute		(412) 268-7719
Carnegie Mellon University		(412) 268-5758 (Fax)
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
From: mchen@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Futile Visionary)
Subject: Re: Horse Racing
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Reply-To: mchen@ics.uci.edu (Futile Visionary)
Organization: Univ. of Calif., Irvine, Info. & Computer Sci. Dept.
Date: 15 Sep 92 18:29:09 GMT

In article <BuKqpu.Jrw@animal.er.bell.ca> sjc@stam.bell.ca writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.151239.192593@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, bmk2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (BRIAN MICHAEL KIELTY) writes:
>|> Is anyone out there interested in Horse Racing? I am a big racing fan and

	Here's an excerpt from FAQ regarding horse racing...

Q:M5  Is there a horse racing newsgroup?
A:M5  (John Wilkes)

  Not another newsgroup, but there is a mailing list for discussion of horse
  racing and handicapping.  If you are interested in joining us, send a note
  to derby-request@ekrl.com and be sure to include an Internet email address
  (i.e., a "@" address.)  Uucp "bang-style" addresses severely confuse the
  local software that processes alias mail, so I cannnot accept them for the
  list.


Hope this helps...

Morison
****************************************************************************
Morison I. Chen			       |"He who is not contented with what
Undergrad., Info. & Computer Sci. Major| he has, would not be contented with
University of California, Irvine       | what he would like to have."
EMail: mchen@bonnie.ics.uci.edu	       |            --Socrates (470?-399 BC)
****************************************************************************
From: jmn@crown.berkeley.edu (J. Mark Noworolski)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Attention Hold'em vultures^H^H^H^Hexperts
Date: 10 Sep 1992 20:53:29 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: crown.berkeley.edu

I will hereby identify myself as a relative newbie to no-limit Texas Hold'em
and as a participant in the wrgpt2.

I've only played home games of poker, and so I was hoping somebody could 
clarify the small and big blind betting system.

I also don't understand the difference between a call and a check. It seems
that they are the same, no? What exactly is a 'check and raise'?

(I feel the vultures circling overhead.....)

mark
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: Optimal Strategy for Multi-Action BJ?
In-reply-to: ERIC@hup.ucla.edu's message of 13 Sep 92 19:36:32 GMT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Date: 14 Sep 92 07:04:29

In article <ERIC.24.0@hup.ucla.edu> ERIC@hup.ucla.edu (Eric J. Splaver) writes:
>
>Is there a consensus on the optimal strategy for Multi-Action BJ?
>I've seen some posts advertising that the optimal strategy is the same as 
>for single action, while others seem to believe a "busting adverse" strategy 
>is better.  If anyone is interested I'd be willing to summarize responses 
>and post the summary.  Michael, Steve, what do you think?  

The correct basic strategy for Multi-Action BJ is the same as for
"regular" BJ.  The house _wants_ you to use a "busting adverse"
strategy in order to increase the house edge.  Expensive mistake.
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Be afraid.  Be very afraid.  I have K-10 offsuit...."
From: jacko@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Jacko)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: blackjack pair splitting
Keywords: blackjack, pair splitting, Humble, Cooper, Hi-Opt I
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:21:03 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Sep1.224753.17144@inter-tel.com> kennedy@inter-tel.com (Matt Kennedy) writes:
>
>     I have a question about basic strategy and Hi-Opt I as described in _The
>World's Greatest Blackjack Book_ (Revised Edition  Copyright  1987)  by Lance
>Humble and Carl Cooper.

In my opinion this book is crap.  The basic information about card 
counting is OK, but it sandwiched in between so much garbage that I
would advise you to learn from some other book, such as Stanford Wong's
Professional Blackjack or Kenny Uston's Million Dollar Blackjack.

>     My question concerns  a one-deck blackjack game where you are allowed to
>double after splitting.  In particular, my question is should  you  split 7,7
>against a dealer 8 in such a game,  and should you split 6,6 against a dealer
>7 in such a game?

Yes, basic strategy in a 1D DAS game is to split both these hands.   
However this is such a rare game that most people don't worry about
marginal plays like this.

Jacko.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: lance@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (lance.r.ogasawara)
Subject: BJ conditions in Vegas
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 23:29:30 GMT



All, I'll be going to Vegas at the end of November and I'm interested in
hearing peoples opinions about the best places to play blackjack. I used
to like the 4-Queens single deck game but if they have the automatic
shuffler described in an earlier net article I would assume the game
is nowhere near as good. In the past I have also spent significant time
at Frontier playing their single deck game but I am having serious
doubts about the fairness of their game. (I'd like to hear opinions
about this topic also.) Considering the favorable rules at Frontier,
I have had rather dismal results.

I'm starting to think that Jerkus Jerkus has the best single deck
game (7 spots, DOA, S17, but what is penetration like if the table
is not full?) Besides the Jerkus Jerkus and 4-Queens games, are
there any other 7 spot, single deck, DOA games in Vegas. I would
assume that there are some downtown but I can't think of any offhand.

Anyway, would I be better off looking at some of the more favorable
double deck games? If I were to play one of these games I would be
most interested in penetration and spread allowed. Does anyone
have information about which double deck games have the best
penetration and/or allow the most liberal spreads?

If there is enough interest I can summarize the responses.


Lance
From: why@kpc.com (Will Hyde)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: JOHN TAIS alert...
Summary: att.com bounces!
Date: 6 Sep 92 13:21:56 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Kubota Pacific Computer Inc, Santa Clara, CA


  John Tais ... jdt@lzsc.att.com

  att.com says:  "can't contact machine lzsc" 

  Your (tournament) mail is bouncing!  

  [...insert usual apology re postings like this...]

  -will (wrgpt2 tournament director)

-- 
________________________________________________________________________
___ why@kpc.com   LADY LUCK IS A FICKLE BITCH, AND HER NAME IS KARMA ___
___ -** --- * ***   -* --- -   *** *- -*--   -* --- - **** ** -* --* ___
___ JUSTINCASE:  Guest acct. This writer does not work/speak for kpc ___
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: weinstoc@sei.cmu.edu (Chuck Weinstock)
Subject: And they probably spell it potatoe
Reply-To: weinstoc@sei.cmu.edu (Chuck Weinstock)
Organization: Software Engineering Institute, Pittsburgh, PA
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 19:29:57 GMT

Las Vegas (AP) - The driver of a potato chip truck was beaten and robbed after
two men discovered the Vegas Chips he was hauling were not poker chips, police
said.

The driver was accosted at knife-point Tuesday and forced to drive to a remote
area, where the robbers demanded he "turn over the chips," said Police Lt.
Carl Fruge.

The robbers became irate when they learned the truck contained potato chips,
Fruge said.  They hit the driver on the head, then fled after stealing his
keys and an undisclosed amount of money.

The driver was not seriously injured.

Dick Falk, vice president and general manager of Vegas Chips, said the cargo
was clearly identified.  He said the company logo displays a bag with both
potato chips and gaming chips coming out of it.
Chuck Weinstock				weinstock@sei.cmu.edu
Software Engineering Institute		(412) 268-7719
Carnegie Mellon University		(412) 268-5758 (Fax)
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
From: bmk2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (BRIAN MICHAEL KIELTY)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Horse Racing
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:12:39 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

Is anyone out there interested in Horse Racing? I am a big racing fan and
usually goto Monmouth Park in NJ or Meadowlands.. I haven't seen any
discussion on this topic. Am I the last of a dying breed?
Bk-
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: winslade@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Winslade)
Subject: Re: Vegas World info wanted
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:58:34 GMT

yali@bgtys28.bnr.ca (Yawar Ali) writes:

>Can anyone provide info. on playing conditions and accommodations
>at Vegas World? Also, a summary of rec.gamblers' analysis of 
>Bob Stupak's current promotional would be much appreciated.
>Thanks in advance...

In short, gag_me_with_a_spoon!  ;-(

My wife and I got suckered into one of their be-a-prisoner-for-three-hours
deals a while back.  I'm glad we did not fall for their bigger 'deals'.

Of all of the places I've seen in Vegas, VW has to be one of the darkest
and dingiest of them all (except maybe the Continental).

The gambling deals are a rip, period.  The chips are restricted and they
are not treated as chips you would buy from the dealer.  On a win, they
take the phony chip and give you a real one.  (Like you get to keep your
money if you win.)  Lose, they take it anyway.

The 'slot action' is a scam.  I don't know any other word for it.  They
give you these tokens that will only work in specially-hacked machines.
They SAY these are worth $5.  The hacked machines are dollar machines.
I have not seen anyone win anything with these.

Bottom line is that there are many fine places in Vegas.  Stardust,
Riviera, Caesar's, Imperial, Circus^2 (if you don't mind rugrats ;-),
etc., etc.  With the competition as fierce as it is, I don't see how a
place like VW can keep its doors open (let alone build an alleged
skyscraper) with what they are doing.  Of all of the people I know who
frequent Vegas, I don't know anyone who likes VW.
 
Good day        JSW

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: 900073s@dragon.acadiau.ca (Donald Smith)
Subject: Roulette: Shareware game found!
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 00:38:33 GMT


  In my quest to find a Roulette game, I found one thanks to PCSIG.
At "tamu.edu", do an anonymous FTP, and get the file:
pc-sig/pc_sigcd/23/8/disk2381.zip

  It contains a nice little roulette game, and appropriate doc's.  Also, keep
the Shareware message in mind.  If the Author of the program reads this message
please E-Mail me.

 -Don

-- 
 "In the news today, George Bush ate breakfast.  Political analysts think it    is an attept to boost his popularity before the election."                       I'll believe in the first religion I find that realizes God is a Habs Fan. 
 Donald.Smith@dragon.acadiau.ca 
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: Optimal Strategy for Multi-Action BJ?
In-reply-to: hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov's message of Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:05:31 GMT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
	<1992Sep14.190531.14946@kronos.arc.nasa.gov>
Date: 14 Sep 92 15:49:57

In article <1992Sep14.190531.14946@kronos.arc.nasa.gov> hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall) writes:
> In article <JACOBS.92Sep14070429@cells.cs.utah.edu> jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs) writes:
>>In article <ERIC.24.0@hup.ucla.edu> ERIC@hup.ucla.edu (Eric J. Splaver) writes:
>>>
>>>Is there a consensus on the optimal strategy for Multi-Action BJ?
>>>I've seen some posts advertising that the optimal strategy is the same as 
>>>for single action, while others seem to believe a "busting adverse" strategy 
>>>is better.  If anyone is interested I'd be willing to summarize responses 
>>>and post the summary.  Michael, Steve, what do you think?  
>>
>>The correct basic strategy for Multi-Action BJ is the same as for
>>"regular" BJ.  The house _wants_ you to use a "busting adverse"
>>strategy in order to increase the house edge.  Expensive mistake.
>
> The correct card counting adjusted strategy for Multi-Action BJ is not
> the same as "regular" BJ.

I didn't claim that it was.  My statement mentioned only basic strategy.

> Nobody knows what it is, and I don't care
> what it is, plus it would be a bitch to do exactly, so I'm not going
> to figure it out.

Whew!  We're all very relieved...

> You have to take into account the variance per
> round, or more exactly the log-growth of your bankroll.

You don't *have* to unless your idea of "optimal" is to optimize
log(bankroll) (shhh... don't tell Michael there are other utility
functions...).  Even for TK (True Kelly) players, a good approximation
would be to bet 1/3 of your Kelly bet on each spot and make playing
adjustments according to the count, just like "real" blackjack.  This
would probably be just as good as the approximations you are already
using when choosing bet size withing real-world contraints.

> But true,
> basic strategy is not changed, since basic strategy maximizes
> expected value, which is the best strategy for negative expected
> value games, aside from not playing.

Nope.  Card counting can still do better than basic strategy in negative
expectation games (unless you increase your bets on -6 counts :-)
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Be afraid.  Be very afraid.  I have K-10 offsuit...."
Newsgroups: rec.gambling