HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rm4@st-andrews.ac.uk (Rosa Michaelson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Celtic Nationalism or something similar
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:50:13 GMT
Organization: working at a University

Morna's ideas on 'the new facism' are a wee bit far fetched!
To ask for specific types of partner is not a eugenics issue -
after all the short codes in the singles collumns cover jews, blacks,
wasps, noraid supporters, vegetarians, quakers, etc (they never
say that theya re policemen though ...)
And the Nazi ensignia is a REVERSED ARYAN CROSS from the earliest
conquerors of the Indus delta civilizations (perhaps over 5000 years
ago give or take an era) that is it goes round the opposite way
from what is now a lucky hindi sign.
Any totalitarian state will appropriate the appropriate symbols
of the cultural group and use them to reinvent history and  thereby
justify all the ensuing unpleasantness. The celtic history is murky
and re-written for each groups/ages new needs, just as scottish
history is reinterpreted/rewritten for each age. And the issues
raised here about what-is-is-not-celtic often are to do with which
group wants power/money/rights...
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: Brit Bashing
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 19:21:51 GMT

From article <1OCT199217250671@vxcrna.cern.ch>, by veitch@vxcrna.cern.ch (Liz Veitch):
> In article <1992Sep29.115140.1@ccsua.ctstateu.edu>, kellyb@ccsua.ctstateu.edu writes...
>> 
>> By the way, did anyone ever say" I regret that I have
>> but one life to give for my country" about England?
> 
> 
> Yes, but we got over it in about 1917 in the mud of the Somme.  Try 
> reading some of the 1st world war poets.
> 
> Liz

I suggest Wilfred Owen (in particular "Dulce et Decorum est pro Patria
More - or such like) and Sigfreid Sasoon (sp) - who was given the VC
(and may have sent it back, as I remember).

														GW
From: skaamjm@ucl.ac.uk (Matthew Moore)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Nationalism - or Why do people have flags in their gardens?
Date: 5 Oct 92 13:34:13 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium

spain@galvia.enet.dec.com writes:
>98.4% of our electorate chose not to vote for Sinn Fein in the last
>general election.  That does not make us English or anti Irish.

Hardly an equal choice was it? 

Are you not aware that Sinn Fein are, and have been censored from TV
and radio in the Irish Republic for many years, including election
times?
From: ccsdgdc@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Douglas Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Seamus Heaney
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:25:38 GMT
Organization: Bath University Computing Services, UK


Seamus Heaney
c/o Faber and Faber Ltd
3 Queen Square
LONDON
WC1N 3AU
-- 
Douglas Clark                                  Voice : +44 225 826039
Regional Services,                       JANET : D.G.D.Clark@uk.ac.bath
Bath University Computing Services, UUCP : ...uunet!mcsun!uknet!gdr!D.G.D.Clark
Bath, Avon, England BA2 7AY    ARPA : D.G.D.Clark%bath.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
From: downey@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re:  Nationalism, etc. . . .
Date: 6 Oct 92 04:06:19 GMT
Organization: NIST


From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
   spain@galvia.enet.dec.com () CONFESSES:
>>Sorry Ulick, I'm Irish and proud of it.  I may not support the IRA and I

>Ooh, you wicked, bombastic, um, er, nationalist, you!  How embarrassed
>we all are.  Repent, sinner!

I like this bit of humor.  How come we didn't see this when Suzanne,
myself and/or others spoke about American nationalism?

Proud to be a human!  (Oh no, is this OK?  No flames, please! or
philosophical arguments.  Thank you.  :-)  )

Have a great day everyone regardless of your country, race, or gender!

Tolerance is the word of the day.

Laura

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: ulick@angelico.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: Re: [SOC] ABOUT THE BEATING DEATH OF MR. LUYEN PHAN NGUYEN
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:48:00 GMT

In article <sauter@kaa.gr.osf.org> emcmanus@kaa.gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:
>ulick@rodin.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:
>>Short comments may be
>>acceptable, but when I see 3% at the bottom of the screen, I get really
>>pissed off.
>
>I don't know why.  It is just as easy to skip a long article as a
>short one.

Yeah, and it probably takes up the same amount of space if cross posted as
not.  It just strikes me as being an abuse of netiquette, although in
retrospect might be better than that flame war going on about America in
this group at the moment.  Hey, guys, aren't there groups in the talk.  
hieracrchy that would be a more appropriate place for that discussion.  


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: mike@inti.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Culture Death (was BASH! BASH! BASH!)
Date: 2 Oct 1992 01:53:25 GMT
Organization: N.I.C.E.
Reply-To: mike@inti.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.82

Graham Walker writes:
>the occasional Corries concert).  However, after about 1984 I started
>noticing a lot more stuff (when I would return), and inparticular, more
>books and music tapes. Now we have all of Gibbon's books being reissued

This is sort of inane of me to say, but I think this is an aspect
of the information explosion noted elsewhere: somebody kicked over
pandora's box a while ago & it's all just pouring out.   Backlists
of publishing houses & music co's are being dug up, reprinted,
reissued, but also there is so much more activity in "original"
material than there was years ago.  Distribution to markets around
the world must make some difference.  A few years ago ... 10, 15
years back ... you couldn't buy Brazilian records in the US for
love or money -- nobody brot them in.  You couldn't buy African
or Middle Eastern music in the US -- if anyone was even manufacturing
the software, it wasn't getting here.  Now we're flooded. Some of
this is the capitalist system at work of course, the relentless
search for more places to market stuff.

As for Scottish music, I have a feeling a lot of the revival of
interest in it has to do with the successes of the English folk
revival in the '60's.  Audiences wanted more material like
that, & players of trad-style music began getting some attention.
In the US we had a country blues & old time music revival in
the early '60's that may be analogous; it also paved the way for
acceptance of the Irish & British traditional musicians.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn)
Subject: Re: Scottish Newsgroup
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Reading, England
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 19:51:38 GMT


In article <1992Oct4.195647.4319@news.clarkson.edu>, walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) writes...
>From article <1992Oct4.082321.3797@rdg.dec.com>, by cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn):
>> 
>> In article <1992Oct3.232158.7877@philmtl.philips.ca>, ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes...
>>> 
>>>Rather than me make some up.  maybe Craig would like to post some of the
>>>topics under discussion in his local Digital group to show what is
>>>appropriate in a Scottish forum but not in the general celtic one.
>>>-- 
>> Here's a few ideas to get you started:
>> 
>> Irn Bru
>>
> 
>This should obviously carry a Government Health Warning, since increased
>levels of iron in the blood has been linked with heart attacks. There we
>now have a discussion going in this group about Irn Bru.
> 
I'll take you up on that.

Does anyone know anywhere in the south of England where you can get Irn Bru
in glass bottles ? The plastic stuff just doesn't taste the same!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Reading, England.     Suas
  Internet: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com                           leis
  UUCP:..!decwrl!edieng.enet.dec.com!cockburn                      a'
                                                                   Gha\idhlig!
  Views here are my own, and are not necessarily those of Digital
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: American Bashing
Date: 29 Sep 92 08:43:11 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: mlhb@mammoth.dr.att.com (Sky Warrior)
>I have a hard time with people who don't know or understand anything about
>a particular country (namely, the US) who can so thoroughly criticize it,
>especially when you take offense when someone else criticizes your country.

What do you have to do to "know or understand anything" about a
country? You are perhaps unaware of the depth of penetration of
American culture into our country. It is quite possible here to flip
through the channels on your TV set and find an American accent
on every one. The newspapers have whole pages devoted to news
from America. And we usenet readers are regular particpants in
electronic conversations in which we are often the only
non-Americans.

I don't think I have ever taken offence when I've seen the UK
criticised here. I'll correct errors or wrongful thinking, but
I have never actually taken offence. I don't think the UK is
that wonderful that I should want to take offence at
justifiable criticism. I don't think this country "stands for"
anything, except as the government of those who happen to live on
that largish island off the north-west coast of Europe. How could I
be "proud" of that? I might as well be proud of the no.25 bus
route.

Matthew Huntbach
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: My Ugly American post for the year....
Date: 2 Oct 92 08:45:33 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
>In article <1992Oct1.132209.25353@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
>> have forgotten their own language because America has made
>> English the dominant language of the world,
>
> Now this is news - so the Americans are responsible for the death of the
>Irish language? Hmmm..... quite an interesting view of things you have
>Matthew. One might have thought that the English had a tiny bit to do with it

It is recognised that throughout Europe the power of the
American media-machine is a major factor in the detioration of
interest in national cultures and languages. The French (both
in France and Quebec) actually have laws to try and control it.

>> And all you can do is say that those of us who would
>> like to protect a little bit of this heritage, who want to keep
>> it alive, who don't want to see it swamped by world
>> Americanisation are "snobs" who "haven't gotten over the
>> revolution".
>
> No - do something about it.

Well, posting articles suggesting that Americans be a bit more
sensitive about other people's cultures *is* doing something
about it.

Matthew Huntbach
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: My Ugly American post for the year....
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:48:07 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Sep29.131551.8083@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
> "starbuck" appears to be one of those who is unable even to
> consider the possibility that people in other countries may not
> be so blindly nationalistic as some Americans are in theirs.

Frankly - who gives a damn? I couldn't care less what Europeans think of
the US or Americans. In fact, I doubt if most americans would give
two-cents for the views on the US from Europeans. We are still the leader 
of the free world and we are still the most powerful nation on earth.
If that bothers you - well too bad - get used to it. Self-righteous, American
bashing posts have long been a part of s.c.c, and Matthew's presence in these
critical attacks is also to be expected, but this time I get the impression
that some of you really expect us to care - I wouldn't hold my breath.
Although it seems that Britain has never quite gotten over the fact that
it is no longer the super-power it once was, it seems to me that criticism
which implies that Europe has somehow reached a higher level of humanity and
being while we poor dumb yanks just trod along one step beyond the 
Neanderthal is laughable at best. Need we look at the current state of
affairs in Europe? Do we need to actually watch the neo-nazis march through
the streets of Germany beating and killing immigrants to see that the
high and mighty position that many Europeans take is simply a modern
myth intended to ease the pain of has-been nations? So my suggestion would
be that some of you should simply be happy with your country's moral
superiority, your absolutely superior television, your new found joy
in a united Europe (ha ha ha ha - I'm sorry, I *still* can't help but
laugh when I think or hear about the "European Community"...) and be
satisfied that your US-bashing has been effective. As we speak, hundreds
of thousands of Americans are hanging their heads in shame and praying
that they can overcome their short-sighted view of the world....



				gln
From: watson@ccsf.caltech.edu (Stephen H. Watson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Americans! *smile*
Date: 28 Sep 1992 20:28:49 GMT
Organization: CCSF Caltech, Pasadena, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sampson.ccsf.caltech.edu

Forgive me for appearing out of touch, but exactly what does
all the recent discussion of George Bush, Bill Clinton, and
other American political topics (as well as 'merican pride,
European nationalism, etc.) have to do with celtic culture?
					    _______

I used to actually enjoy reading this newsgroup...sigh.

Stephen Watson
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:6295 soc.culture.usa:7554
From: starbuck@ucrmath.ucr.edu (starbuck)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Americans! *smile*
Date: 29 Sep 92 08:37:55 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.celtic
Organization: University of California, Riverside

In article <1992Sep28.101050.11573@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:

-No it is not. It is rooted in the fact that we have seen how
-nationalism has contributed to wars, death, imperialistic
-conquest, suppression of minorities, racism and many other evils.
-Nationalism of the sort which Americans find natural and
-unexceptional is in Europe regarded as the height of bad
-manners, boorish and dangerous.
-
-Matthew Huntbach

It might be of benifit to you to read some European history.  I would start
with the histroy of Britian in India, then perhaps the history of Germany.
If you want examples of racism, suppression of minorities, mperialistic 
conquest, war, and many other evils you'll find them all in your own history.

starbuck
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: silva@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Holly Silva)
Subject: Re: European superiority
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 21:27:35 GMT

In article <23323@optima.cs.arizona.edu> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:
>In article <1992Oct4.011002.12125@news.clarkson.edu>, walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) writes:
>> As to comments about this not being appropriate s.c.c material, I would
>> suggest that s.c.c be view as a forum where people from (or have a link
>> with) Ireland, Scotland, Walse, Breton, etc. can discuss topics that
>> affect their lives, and the role that the US has on the culture of these
>> lands is certainly worth discussing.
>
> I'm not sure what you are trying to say here - if I read this correctly you
>seem to be implying that US-bashing is OK, but defending those attacks is
>not appropriate - is that right? So, someone from the UK can accuse the US
>of being responsible for the state of Celtic culture today but an American
>cannot respond to those charges? 
>
>			gln
>
	I did not get the impression that he meant that, nor would that
idea have a rat's ass of a chance to succeed while you, suzanne sims or
I continue to post. A broad reading of his statement, one that I would 
prefer to take, is that he considers both the socio-political
ramifications of the 'celtic diaspora' _and_ the 'Kilts and Music'
sub-culture in North America to be valid topics for discussion in s.c.c.
	By 'celtic diaspora' I mean the vast out-migration of celtic people 
from Europe through the past 300 years, which occurred in response to
events such as the Highland Clearances and the Irish Potato Famine, and in 
response to the chronic poverty of the celtic regions of pre-20th century
Britain, France and Ireland.
	Unfortunately, in s.c.c. there exists a sentiment in favor of ignoring
or discounting the effects of these migrations on celtic cultures. Likewise,
there is a rather strong sentiment in favor of discounting the lives, 
thoughts, and values of celtic people born in lands outside the aboriginal 
celtic regions.
	
>


--
======================================================================
|| Holly Silva			I have nothing terribly clever to say||
|| Applied Earth Sciences	today.  You're in luck.		     ||
|| Stanford University						     ||
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Sinead O'Connor's cute little performance
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:27:38 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Oct6.180223.21820@news.nd.edu>, ulick@angelico.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:
> Americans!!  Taking this seriously:-).  Unless you hadn't noticed Ms. O'Connor's
> entire act from her hairdo, illegitimate child, abortions, the bullshit
> about the American flag a while back are all designed to shock, to help her
> sell more records.  

 Interesting approach. I've always found her to be a bit naive when it
comes to her so-called political views but I was surprised to see her
do this - I couldn't tell what she expected as a response - the absolute
silence that followed surprised me - I would have expected that you could
go on stage, beat a cat to death, and some stupid ass would still
applaud because he thought he was supposed to - I couldn't tell if she
expected the reaction or not. 

> Most Irish people attempt to ignore her, in the expectation
> that if noone pays any attention, she'll stop behaving like an ass (apologies
> to all donkies) and go away (or at least stop getting media attention).

 One would think that this latest stunt will cause even more anger in
Ireland than in the states. I mean it was the pope's picture after all.

I was shocked to hear that SNL was considering a "lifetime ban" on Ms.
O'Connor. - although they did say that they would probably just not
deal with her for the near future. I heard that NBC has received
steady complaints since show aired.

> I am sure she is really upset that the University of Notre Dame Student Senate
> has called on NBC, our most benelovent benefactors :-), to apologise, and
> it was covered on the front page of the University rag.  It would be much 
> better to ignore her.

 I just want to know "What is her point?" What the hell is she supposedly
standing for? Anything? Why is the pope "the real enemy"? Does she have
any grand view which explains any of her behavior or is she simply a
twit trying to behave as if she has important things to say? 

			gln
From: ah@dunaad.co.uk (Alan Hunter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Celtic Holidays
Keywords: Celtic, holidays
Date: 4 Oct 92 07:57:47 GMT
Organization: Johnson Hunter Limited

>>In article <gT1sRB4w165w@bluemoon.rn.com> papageno@bluemoon.rn.com (Andrew Armstrong) writes:
>>>
>>>  I am relatively new to this newsgroup.  I have only been reading it for 
>>>a few months now.  But in this time, I have seen little discussion about 
>>>Celtic holidays.  I would appreciate it if someone could make a list of 
>>>magor holidays, their signifigance, and how they are observed.  I am very 
>>>interested in learning more about the Celtic culture.  The holidays can be 
>>>pagan, Christian, national, regional, etc.
>

The co-op is shut tomorrow. Why?  Because it was a bank holiday last week and
they missed it:-)

Alan


-- 
Alan Hunter
Johnson Hunter Ltd
Isle of Islay, Scotland
A.Hunter@dunaad.co.uk          fax: +44-496-2336         voice: +44-496-2286
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: irish@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Brian OReilly)
Subject: Re: Brit Bashing
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 23:05:32 GMT

Wilfred Owen is good. But......

I think Rupert Brooke was sort of Gung-Ho about war, at least his poetry was
used in that way.  Lessee, what was that about the "corner of a foreign field
that is for ever England" etc. etc. Very stirring stuff :) Of course most
people contrast him with Wilfred Owen (who was truly awesome) and use that as
a way to convey how brutal the Great (????) War was.



-- 
-------------------/The Muon is a harsh mistress\----------------------------
Evolution is all \       Brian O'Reilly           / "Most people have nation-
that separates us >  Northwestern University     <  -alities, Jews and Irish 
from the animals./  irish@casbah.acns.nwu.edu     \  have psychoses." (B. Behan)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:6261 rec.music.folk:6619
From: Gerry.Mulvenna@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Gerry Mulvenna)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,rec.music.folk
Subject: Critical appraisal of Goats Don't Shave, The Limelight, Belfast
Summary: Goats Don't Shave concert 27/09/1992
Date: 28 Sep 92 11:07:49 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.celtic
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology

Goats Don't Shave - fuckin' brilliant.


What's all this about them asking for 20 grand to play for the Donegal
football team's homecoming?

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: papageno@bluemoon.rn.com (Andrew Armstrong)
Subject: Celtic Holidays
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 05:13:39 EDT

  I am relatively new to this newsgroup.  I have only been reading it for 
a few months now.  But in this time, I have seen little discussion about 
Celtic holidays.  I would appreciate it if someone could make a list of 
magor holidays, their signifigance, and how they are observed.  I am very 
interested in learning more about the Celtic culture.  The holidays can be 
pagan, Christian, national, regional, etc.

  Also, does anyone know how one might be able to get ahold of music by 
groups such as Runrig, Rawlin Cross, the Stoaters, or The Alarm in the US, 
namely (cringing) Ohio?  I haven't seen any of these in local record 
shops.


Der Vogelfaenger bin ich ja!

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic