From: ahmed@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ahmed El-Habbash)
Subject: Re: What is H a m a s ??
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 10:31:08 GMT

In <1993Jan6.221230.15744@trl.oz.au> faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris) writes:

>In article <1ifc8tINN9o4@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:
>|> 
>|>  I really like your tone of writing this time.  I like the friendly mood.

>And I love the tone of your writing Hamaza!.

>|> of it to God existence.  As muslims, we beleive that there is one and only good
>|> who is the creator, the giving, the almighty, etc..  Anyone who belives that 
>|> God is not the only creator and there other Gods who assist Him in any doing,
>|> then this means he is making ishraak, therefore he is called mushrik.  Jews and
>|> christians are called mushrikeen because the make ishrak, Jews beleive that 
>|> Ozir was the son of God, and christians beleive in the trinity and some others
>|> beleive in God to be the jesus, which all considered by quran in so many verses
>|> as mushrikeen.  Some Jews consider there is only one God, but they don't follow
>|> his rules, that are in Torah.  For example, torah says one thing but they do 
>|> the other.  This means they don't listen to what God judgement is, rather they
>|> follow someone's else.  This is not applicable to jews only, but to all people
>|> who do such a thing.

>If you call Jews and Christians Mushrikeen, how is it that the Qur'an also
>calls them the "People of the book". Isn't there a contradiction here?. Also
>as I understand, in the opening prayer of the Qur'an, Muhammad himself is
>praying to God to be kind on him as he is kind to them. How could you call
>Jews and Christians as such?.

In fact I am doing corrections to the arguments, and I don't like to be
considered as been involved in this debate which I don't feel it
constructive at all. If some one feels that his religion is perfect,
then let him follow it in a proper way. Religion is not to raise
arguments and create conflicts.

NOW:

About the above argument, the part of the opening chapter that you are
referring to says:

Guide us in the straight path, the path of those whom you had blessed, (1)

not of those against whom you are wrathful,        (2)
nor of those who are astray.                       (3)

These verses refer to three categories of people.

1- monotheists who follow the one God.
2- Jews.
3- Christians.

So the Prophet (SAW) was praying to be in category one, not two and not
three.
>Not all Jews and Christians follow their book exactly, also not all Muslims
>follow the Qur'an exactly. Furthermore, it is very difficult to tell who is
>and who is not.

You are absolutely correct.

>Mushrikeen as you point out are those who attempt to divide God into a number
>of pieces and are Polytheists. How is an Atheist or an Agnostic treated, it
>seems they do not fit that catagory. Furthermore, the above groups do not
>care about religion at all and have no intentions of attacking Islam or any
>other religion. Should they be attacked according to your beleif?.

Infact Mushrikeen has many different meanings.

Any one who considers other Gods with Allah is one of those Mushrikeen.
A Muslim who follows his own desires, is in fact taking himself as God,
so he is Mushrik. We have many examples in our Muslim rulers and others.

A Muslim who consider some person as so great so he obeys him the same
as God, and perhaps more, and loves him the same as God and perhaps more
is in fact Mushrik. There are many verses in the Quran to support that.

SO to say that I am a Muslim is not a big deal, and you cannot trick
Allah by that. The pure Islam is the real submission to Allah, and
without having any influences or figures that would let you deviate from
submitting to Allah. Any other kind of free will submission is shirk.

> 
>|> I agree with what you understand about islam.  islam never punished people
>|> for their beleifs.  i hope you understand what islam is all about and don't
>|> jump to conclusions right away.  Please try to for the good of your being.

>If Islam never punished people for their beleif, then why is Sulman Rushdie
>is hiding and why is it not allowed for a Muslim to convert to another religion
>or be Agnostic or an Atheist?.

Islam is punishig no body. Islam gives a guide line for an Islamic
government, how to implement the law, which should be used to control an
Islamic state.

About Salman Rushdi, nobody is punishing him for his beliefe, their are
millions of Muslims who are much worse than Salman Rushdi as far as
their belief is concerned, and no one is punishing them. 

Salman Rushdi
is punished by Khumini apparently for his slanders which are directed to
many prophets and to many Muslim figures and to the faith of all
Muslims.  I am sure that you are not taking part of the prpaganda
against Muslims, but I am sure that you and many others are mislead by
that propaganda.  

>Also, is a "Good being" only a "Religious being" or a "Muslim being" or a
>good being can be any person?.

>A.Faris

I cannot see the point of the whole debate under the title "HAMAS" !!!

Ahmed.
-- 
Ahmed I. El-Habbash, 
Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.
Tel: office: +353-1-7021524,  Home: +353-1-937402.