HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Newsgroups: nz.comp
Subject: Re: What computer is the "Coruba, DO DA" ad done on?
Date: 20 Dec 92 11:29:56 PST
Organization: TAP

Quoted from <1992Dec17.134730.12855@waikato.ac.nz> by ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Waikato University):

> >What you're neglecting to mention, of course, is that those frames have to be
> >in RAM first. And not just any RAM, but "chip" RAM, of which you're only allowed
> >to have a total of 2MB, even on the newest machines (or so I'm told).

    ...

> As far as I can determine, none of the followup postings has exactly refuted
> my statement. Someone explained the capabilities of the Amiga to decompress
> frame-differenced images from fast RAM into chip RAM (interestingly, I can't

    That was explaining how animation works on the Amiga, in an
    attempt to point out that the 2000 fps figure is misleading. In
    fact, the 2000 fps example also assumes that the "animation" would
    be demo stuff, like 3D vectors or bouncing text, etc, which are
    drawn in "real time", not simple animations.

    The reason the OS guys posted that figure was to show that in a
    demo which ran at 50 fps, only a very small part of each frame was
    required to switch buffers.

    Basically what we have here is an "edge" figure of 2000 fps being
    mangled into a discussion on normal animation, which is
    inappropriate.

> recally anyone mentioning anything about decompression from disk), but no one
> has claimed that this can be done at 2000 frames per second, nor do I believe
> that it is possible.

    I mentioned decompression from disk, in the form of buffering the
    data before decompressing it. The other approach, which is done
    for some trade shows but which isn't "normal", is to read the
    data directly into display RAM from disk, for the duration of the
    animation. This requires a special disk format and custom code,
    apparently. They can do the reverse when creating the animation,
    like a VCR.

    As for a conventional animation working at 2000 fps - if you use
    the OS, then yes, you'll quickly run out of frames (unless your
    animation is a very short loop, like the spinning coin Psygnosis
    use), because you haven't got any spare time to decompress
    anything. :)

    If you do the double-buffering yourself, then you can pick an
    animation that will work quickly, like a dot moving around the
    screen... :)

    BTW, do you know what's involved in double-buffering on the Mac?

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro                       fone: +64-7-856-2889
--
*** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Newsgroups: nz.comp
Subject: Re: What computer is the "Coruba, DO DA" ad done on?
Date: 17 Dec 92 08:49:05 PST
Organization: TAP

Quoted from <FXuRVB2w165w@amigans.gen.nz> by batman@amigans.gen.nz (Kerry Emerson):

> > Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Waikato University (ldo@waikato.ac.nz) wrote:

    ...

> OK, all those ibm lovers that are saying about Amigas being useless for 

    Lawrence is a frequent Mac advocate, and he hasn't exactly said
    that they are _useless_ for animation. He just has some mistaken
    information about what's involved in Amiga animation.
--
*** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Waikato University)
Newsgroups: nz.comp
Subject: Re: What computer is the "Coruba, DO DA" ad done on?
Date: 17 Dec 92 16:09:20 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <BzDsD6.C2D@cantua.canterbury.ac.nz>, cree@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (Michael Cree) writes:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Waikato University (ldo@waikato.ac.nz) wrote:
>> That 2000 frame-per-second rate would apply if you were just changing a
>> copper-list register to point to a different image which is already in chip
>> RAM (and as someone else has pointed out, 500 microseconds is really pretty
>> slow for such a simple operation). Thus any claim that an Amiga can animate at
>> this speed for any length of time (even with unlimited fast RAM) can't be the
>> whole truth, and I claimed no more than this.
>
> As I understand it that figure is for copying from a memory buffer
> into the display buffer as I explained in a previous reply to your
> posting. If it was just changing the copper list it could be done
> probably close to a million times per second (since that is how long
> the operation takes) ...

Is that from a buffer in fast RAM to one in chip RAM? If so, it's pretty
impressive, since I gather you can't use the blitter for an operation like that.

How many bytes are you talking about, though? At 320*200 resolution, a
single bitplane takes up 8000 bytes (or so my calculator tells me). Is that
the time to move 5 bitplanes, or are you talking about some other screen mode?

Lawrence D'Oliveiro                       fone: +64-7-856-2889
Computer Services Dept                     fax: +64-7-838-4066
University of Waikato            electric mail: ldo@waikato.ac.nz
Hamilton, New Zealand    37^ 47' 26" S, 175^ 19' 7" E, GMT+13:00
From: dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz (Kennelmeister)
Newsgroups: nz.comp
Subject: Re: Atari Portfolio file transfer software
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 13:00:34 +1300
Organization: The Dawghaus BBS, Palmerston North, New Zealand (+64 6 357 9245)

cctr132@csc.canterbury.ac.nz writes:

> Hi All,
> 
> Does anyone out there have (or have access to) an Atari Portfolio -with-
> the parallel interface??
> 
> If so, could you be persuaded to send me a copy of the file transfer
> software.  I have a user here with one of these machines and he got the
> parallel interface at a fire sale and discovered when he got home that
> the diskette with the software was nowhere to be found.  Consequently,
> he is unable to transfer stuff between his PC and the Portfolio.  I
> realize there are some murky copyright issues here, but as the Portfolio
> is now out of production, alternative sources of this stuff are getting
> hard to find.

Check the atari archives - it may be lurking there somewhere.

Actrix has some stuff, the USA site is atari.archive.umich.edu

--
Alan B                           See Janet's ball. See John's chainsaw
Dogbowl@dogbox.acme.gen.nz       See Spot run. Run, Spot, run!
Dawghaus BBS +64 6 357-9245      Far too slow......
Palmerston North, New Zealand    Spot's in bits. Run Janet Run!
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Newsgroups: nz.comp
Subject: Re: SAS/C v6.1 patch in NZ?
Date: 18 Dec 92 09:52:01 PST
Organization: TAP

Quoted from <Bz9zz3.58I@comp.vuw.ac.nz> by Francesco.Ballara@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Francesco (devitt)):

> Is is available anywhere in NZ?

    Yes. It has been uploaded to Maranatha (of course), and Feeling
    Baud.

> Francesco Ballara
--
*** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
From: nicaugh@otago.ac.nz
Newsgroups: nz.comp
Subject: Re: What computer is the "Coruba, DO DA" ad done on?
Date: 16 Dec 92 16:44:13 +1300
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand

>>     The 8 fps value is based on what someone said on the net about the
>>     frame rate for Disney cartoons. Is it incorrect?
> 
> I find this hard to believe. Hanna-Barbera cartoons, maybe.
> 
> Personal experience: I was doing some experiments in single-frame grabbing
> last night, and the material I happened to be using was a recording of the
> "Goodnight Kiwi" animation off TV2. Most of that was drawn at 12.5 frames per
> second (ie there was only a change every other frame). However in one section
> (the kiwi and the cat walking/frolicing through the studio) there was a
> change every frame--25 frames per second!
Sounds about right, alot of drawn stuff/plasticine/model is at 12.5
due to time/cost of 25. Though if need be (as you noticed) they go
to 25. 
You would find pretty much all Computer Animations on TV is 25 or 50.
For example the Panasonic add we just did with a bettery was field 
animated ie we generated 50 half height images per second & use the
interlacing to get 50fps.
Pixel Perfect did one once at 12.5 for a space program. Can't remember the 
name, though I think time had something to do with that.
Disney stuff I would have thought would have been at 12 (24fps for film,
so they generate at half rate) though maybe they did go down to 8 for some 
stuff. Out of my league I'm afraid.

Cheers
Nigel
-- 
===============================================================================
Nigel Caughey                       Phone : +64-3-4799750
Animation Research Ltd              Fax   : +64-3-4799751
Dunedin 
New Zealand                         Email : nicaugh@otago.ac.nz
From: athomson@otago.ac.nz (Alastair Thomson)
Newsgroups: nz.comp
Subject: Re: What computer is the "Coruba, DO DA" ad done on?
Date: 18 Dec 92 12:49:15 +1300
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand

In article <BzDry4.Bt6@cantua.canterbury.ac.nz>, cree@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (Michael Cree) writes:
> 
> It is a little unfair to heap Amigas in with the C64 and the BBC. Heck, there
> are Amigas available (admittedly not yet in NZ) that have comparable speed
> to the SUN sparc stations we use in the elec eng dept here.

> Considering you lack of knowledge of Amigas (which at a guess is based on
> the observation of Amiga 500s only, which btw are faster than the basic
> 8MHz 286) it is not suprising that you have no knowledge of software
> either.
> 
I am not lumping them together as you say, I have used assorted Amigas, and I
do have some knowledge of what is out there for them, I looked seriously at
equipping my busines with them. They just don *NOT* have high quality software
available for 3D animation at a sensible speed.

Considering your lack of knowledge of animation, I suggest that you actaully
listen to someone from one of NZs top animation companies - Animation Research
Limited. 
>> Alastair
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Michael Cree                              Gold there is
> cree@elec.canterbury.ac.nz                 and rubies in abundance;
>                                           But lips that speak knowledge
>                                            are a rare jewel. (Prov 20:15)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Waikato University)
Newsgroups: nz.comp
Subject: Re: What computer is the "Coruba, DO DA" ad done on?
Date: 16 Dec 92 13:42:20 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <jbickers.0lbo@templar.actrix.gen.nz>, jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers) writes:
> Quoted from <1992Dec13.144855.393@otago.ac.nz> by nicaugh@otago.ac.nz:
>
>> >         30 is excessive, anything >= 8 is acceptable. That's 8 frames
>
>> No way. 25fps for TV animation mate. maybe 12.5 if your lucky.
>
>     The 8 fps value is based on what someone said on the net about the
>     frame rate for Disney cartoons. Is it incorrect?

I find this hard to believe. Hanna-Barbera cartoons, maybe.

Personal experience: I was doing some experiments in single-frame grabbing
last night, and the material I happened to be using was a recording of the
"Goodnight Kiwi" animation off TV2. Most of that was drawn at 12.5 frames per
second (ie there was only a change every other frame). However in one section
(the kiwi and the cat walking/frolicing through the studio) there was a
change every frame--25 frames per second!

Lawrence D'Oliveiro                       fone: +64-7-856-2889
Computer Services Dept                     fax: +64-7-838-4066
University of Waikato            electric mail: ldo@waikato.ac.nz
Hamilton, New Zealand    37^ 47' 26" S, 175^ 19' 7" E, GMT+13:00
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Newsgroups: nz.comp
Subject: Re: What computer is the "Coruba, DO DA" ad done on?
Date: 16 Dec 92 11:26:10 PST
Organization: TAP

Quoted from <1992Dec13.144855.393@otago.ac.nz> by nicaugh@otago.ac.nz:

> >         30 is excessive, anything >= 8 is acceptable. That's 8 frames

> No way. 25fps for TV animation mate. maybe 12.5 if your lucky.

    The 8 fps value is based on what someone said on the net about the
    frame rate for Disney cartoons. Is it incorrect?

> RAM. Anyone got such an Amiga in NZ or Aus!.

    Heh. 2GB just in disk space is a dream for most Amigans.

> Nigel
--
*** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
From: Twin-Peaks@fbi.amigans.gen.nz (Dale Cooper)
Newsgroups: nz.comp
Subject: Re:  What computer is the "Coruba, DO DA" ad done on?
Date: 19 Dec 92 11:29:43 PST
Distribution: world
Organization: Federal Bureau of Investigation (Twin Peaks)

In article <1992Dec15.104758.408@otago.ac.nz> nicaugh@otago.ac.nz writes:
> Artistically maybe brilliant, technically NO WAY in a MILLION YEARS.
> You should also be careful about Channel 2 stuff, it was not all
> done on Amiga's though I would love to know who did what. Pixel Perfect
> in Wellington did the Groucho Marx stuff on a PC.
By this do you mean that "Diet Coke" ad with Paula Abdul and other old
actors?

> The earlier station id with the revolving 2 was done in Aus, on what I
> don't know (though I'll wager not an Amiga).
> In case you are wondering we use DEC, SGI & HP gear. Not a PC or Amiga in > sight.
What other ads have your company done, just out of curiosity?

> In case you are interested which I doubt I don't dislike Amiga's just
> people who think they are the be all and end all!!!!.
Right.  They aren't the be all and end all, they are just very well
constructed machines for basic sound/graphics manipulation at a low price.
Fair comment?

--
               Dale Cooper --- Twin-Peaks@FBI.amigans.gen.nz
         Ring "Silent Imperium: +64 06 3471763 2400bps (24 HOURS)"
                        **** Quote of the Week ****
      "This is, excuse me, a DAMN fine cup of coffee" - [Dale Cooper]
From: nicaugh@otago.ac.nz
Newsgroups: nz.comp
Subject: Re: What computer is the "Coruba, DO DA" ad done on?
Date: 15 Dec 92 10:47:58 +1300
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand

> OK, all those ibm lovers that are saying about Amigas being useless for 
> Animation, well you know the Channel 2 and Mobil Sports animations, they 
> are BRILLIANT, and DONE ON AMIGA!  Kiss it babe!
Artistically maybe brilliant, technically NO WAY in a MILLION YEARS.
You should also be careful about Channel 2 stuff, it was not all
done on Amiga's though I would love to know who did what. Pixel Perfect
in Wellington did the Groucho Marx stuff on a PC.
The earlier station id with the revolving 2 was done in Aus, on what I don't
know (though I'll wager not an Amiga).
In case you are wondering we use DEC, SGI & HP gear. Not a PC or Amiga in 
sight.
In case you are interested which I doubt I don't dislike Amiga's just people
who think they are the be all and end all!!!!.

Nigel

-- 
===============================================================================
Nigel Caughey                       Phone : +64-3-4799750
Animation Research Ltd              Fax   : +64-3-4799751
Dunedin 
New Zealand                         Email : nicaugh@otago.ac.nz
(My opinions not my employers)
From: allan@otago.ac.nz
Newsgroups: nz.comp
Subject: Wellington Sysops
Date: 14 Dec 92 14:20:21 +1300
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand

hi,

Could someone please mail me the correct addresses for the 'sysops' on:
   actrix.gen.nz         and             kosmos.w-cc.govt.nz


Thanks,

Allan

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Allan Udy, Mac Consultant, Golden Micro Solutions,|Phone:     +64 3 473 8710
9 Norwood St, N.E.V., Dunedin 9001, New Zealand.  |Fax:       +64 3 473 8710
                                                  |CompuServe:    100035,552
'Whatever happened to all the heroes?' Stranglers |E-Mail: allan@otago.ac.nz
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: slang@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: nz.comp
Subject: Re: What computer is the "Coruba, DO DA" ad done on?
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:00:31 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

>     Lawrence is a frequent Mac advocate, and he hasn't exactly said

This is very true!

>     that they are _useless_ for animation. He just has some mistaken
>     information about what's involved in Amiga animation.

From December 11 ComputerWorld Australia -
-start quote-
A AUS $30,000 486DS micro has displaced a proprietary $1.1 million 3-D computer
graphics system at a Queensland video production house.

...

It takes on-hundredth as long to render an image on the screen, said ...

At the same time it can calculate the shading, texture and lighting for 100
times as many cones per frame as the FGS could handle.

...
-end quote-

Now that's a heck of a lot (30,000) to spend on a PC, but it's obviousely not
much to spend on a 3-D Graphics system.

50MHz 486
256K cache
32Mb of 60 nanosecond memory

Vista Technology video adaptor with 4Mb of video memory
Tseng Lab 24Bit with 1Mb memory (this one for seperate menu screen.)

660 Mb Control Data hard disk
Diaquest Comms card

4Mb video memory could give around 1360x1024 with 16,700,00 colours.

PC's can play the same game as the others, but who cares anyway.

Steve Lang...
Newsgroups: nz.comp
From: pols051@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
Subject: MODEM wanted in Christchurch
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 00:12:18 GMT

I am looking to buy a second hand or new modem for an Amiga computer, so that I
can still use e-mail and News when I leave university at the end of the year.

Anything considered, but I would prefer to buy from someone living in the
Christchurch area.

Please contact me by e-mail before midday on Monday, with details of your modem,
giving me your asking price and a contact phone number if possible.  
Alternatively, call me on Saturday or Sunday at 3597-268 (Christchurch).

Thanks

Andrew Hoy
Political Science Department
University of Canterbury.
From: batman@amigans.gen.nz (Kerry Emerson)
Newsgroups: nz.comp
Subject: Re: What computer is the "Coruba, DO DA" ad done on?
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 12:23:14 GMT+1
Organization: Wanganui Amigans, Wanganui, New Zealand

cree@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (Michael Cree) writes:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Waikato University (ldo@waikato.ac.nz) wrote:
> > In article <Byys6D.9Ay@cantua.canterbury.ac.nz>, cree@elec.canterbury.ac.nz
> > >
> > > For animation the Commodore engineers claim that 2000 fps can be done on 
> > > Amiga 4000 (25MHz 68040 based machine) through the operating system.
> 
> > What you're neglecting to mention, of course, is that those frames have to 
> > in RAM first. And not just any RAM, but "chip" RAM, of which you're only al
> > to have a total of 2MB, even on the newest machines (or so I'm told).
> 
> Granted.
> 
> However the point is that for real time animation there is plenty of time
> to either render the images or pull them off disk, since only 50/2000 of
> cpu time is being used to transfer image data from a frame buffer into the
> visible screen. Thus only one extra screenfull of chip RAM need be allocated.
 
OK, all those ibm lovers that are saying about Amigas being useless for 
Animation, well you know the Channel 2 and Mobil Sports animations, they 
are BRILLIANT, and DONE ON AMIGA!  Kiss it babe!

 
Newsgroups: nz.comp
From: kjx@comp.vuw.ac.nz (R James Noble)
Subject: Re: What computer is the "Coruba, DO DA" ad done on?
Organization: Victoria University of Wellington, Wellington, New Zealand
	<1992Dec18.125458.434@otago.ac.nz>
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:22:26 GMT

In response to some of my misinformed blatherings, 

Alastair Thomson writes: [edited]

> Sorry, the Quantel is a 2D system only - Pixel do not have one either.
> I don't know who your authority is, but Pixel have used a PC based
> Cubicomp for several years and have just moved to an SGI machine with
> SoftImage.

I stand corrected - my information was second hand and obviously out
of date.  The showreel would have been from the Cubicomp (this may
have been the name I couldn't remember) - which I guess would cover
the add in question. Perhaps now we can all go home.

kjx
--
James Noble, Graduate Student, Computer Science Department
Victoria University, Box 600, Wellington 1, New Zealand
kjx@comp.vuw.ac.nz
Newsgroups: nz.comp
From: kjx@comp.vuw.ac.nz (R James Noble)
Subject: Re: What computer is the "Coruba, DO DA" ad done on?
Organization: Victoria University of Wellington, Wellington, New Zealand
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 02:58:15 GMT

In article <e5B9uB1w165w@amigans.gen.nz> batman@amigans.gen.nz (Kerry Emerson) writes:

At a risk of injecting some light into this situation, and since
no-one seems to have come up with anything better than MNSHO...

   Please does any one know which 
   computer/system/software this was done on?

I _think_ I remember this on a Pixel Perfect showreel I borrowed this
year - the reel was old by then. The reel definitely included things
like the Pepsi/RTR clip, the Kiwi from the Trade Developement Board
programme, and lots of Beer Logos :-)

   sneaky suspicion it was done on either an IBM or an Amiga.

This was done on a custom "paintbox" - I was told the name (second
hand) but I don't remember it - something like "Quantel" :-). However,
I have on good authority that like everyone else in the smallish-pro
animation world Pixel Perfect are moving to fast Intel boxes, with
heaps of memory (dedicated frame buffers) and hardware to write out to
video. Algorithms in all cases are fast, configurable, and pixel
buffer based - not raytracing.

(there was a flame here but I deleted it. those interested can apply
for a copy by mail)

kjx
--
James Noble, Graduate Student, Computer Science Department
Victoria University, Box 600, Wellington 1, New Zealand
kjx@comp.vuw.ac.nz