From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Jesus was a man, was Is it Christian values or chavinism?
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:29:58 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <ksand-151092191034@wintermute.apple.com> ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
>In article <71381@hydra.gatech.EDU>, rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard
>Pitts) wrote:
>> 
>> In article <ksand-141092193710@wintermute.apple.com> ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
>> |Richard, as usually I'm quite curious to see how you are trying to
>> |map that in the beginning there was the Word, to the statement that
>> |Jesus is God. It clearly demonstrates the facts that humans have 
>> |a very good creative mind, indeed!
>
>> No, it doesn't - read John chapter 1 and see who you thing the Word is,
>> please.  Let us know what you think.
>
>Sorry, you have a far better fantasy than I, so I'm still waiting 
>to find the answer in the Bible, instead of figuring out what the
>Word maybe means.

Let us look at John chapter 1, since it is the Scripture I reference
and the part of the reasoning I used to say that Jesus is the noble
man in the parable in Luke 19.  [It is a bit long, but worthwhile.]

    John 1 (NIV)   In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
    and the Word was God. {2} He was with God in the beginning. {3} Through 

[The Word was God and with God]

    him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 

[The Word was responsible for making everything that has been made.]

    {4} In him was life, and that life was the light of men. {5} The light 
    shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it. {6} There 

[The Word was the light of men, but the darkness doesn't understand.]

    came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. {7} He came as a 
    witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men 

[John came to tell of the light (the Word).]

    might believe. {8} He himself was not the light; he came only as a 

[John was not that light, himself.]

    witness to the light. {9} The true light that gives light to every man 
    was coming into the world. {10} He was in the world, and though the world 

[The true light was coming - OT prophecy.]

    was made through him, the world did not recognize him. {11} He came to 
    that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. {12} Yet to all 

[The Jews did not recognize him.]

    who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to 
    become children of God-- {13} children born not of natural descent, nor 

[The Word provided for all who believe to be children of God.]

    of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. {14} The Word 
    became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the 

[The Word was made flesh not by a husband, but by God - not of human will.]

    glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and 
    truth. {15} John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This 
    was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because 
    he was before me.'" {16} From the fullness of his grace we have all 

[John was surpassed by the Word, for the Word existed before John.]

    received one blessing after another. {17} For the law was given through 
    Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. {18} No one has ever 
    seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made 
    him known. {19} Now this was John's testimony when the Jews of Jerusalem 

[Jesus made God know to us, as he was at the Father's side.]

    sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. {20} He did not fail to 
    confess, but confessed freely, "I am not the Christ. " {21} They asked 
    him, "Then who are you? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you 
    the Prophet?" He answered, "No." {22} Finally they said, "Who are you? 
    Give us an answer to take back to those who sent us. What do you say 
    about yourself?" {23} John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, 
    "I am the voice of one calling in the desert, 'Make straight the way for 
    the Lord.'" {24} Now some Pharisees who had been sent {25} questioned 
    him, "Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor 
    the Prophet?" {26} "I baptize with water," John replied, "but among you 

[John says he is not the Christ.]

    stands one you do not know. {27} He is the one who comes after me, the 
    thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie." {28} This all happened 

[John says that the Christ is coming.]

    at Bethany on the other side of the Jordan, where John was baptizing. 
    {29} The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,  "Look, the 
    Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! {30} This is the one I 
    meant when I said, 'A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he 
    was before me.' {31} I myself did not know him, but the reason I came 

[John said that Jesus was the one of which he spoke.]

    baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel." {32} Then 
    John gave this testimony: "I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a 
    dove and remain on him. {33} I would not have known him, except that the 
    one who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'The man on whom you see 
    the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy 
    Spirit.' {34} I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God." 

[John gave witness to the Holy Spirit coming and remaining upon Jesus,
 as he was told it would happen - He (Jesus) is the Son of God - the Word.]

    {35} The next day John was there again with two of his disciples. 
    {36} When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, "Look, the Lamb of God!" 
    {37} When the two disciples heard him say this, they followed Jesus. 
    {38} Turning around, Jesus saw them following and asked, "What do you 
    want?" They said, "Rabbi" (which means Teacher), "where are you staying?" 
    {39} "Come," he replied, "and you will see." So they went and saw where 
    he was staying, and spent that day with him. It was about the tenth hour. 
    {40} Andrew, Simon Peter's brother, was one of the two who heard what John 
    had said and who had followed Jesus. {41} The first thing Andrew did was 

[John pointed his disciples to the greater (Jesus) and they followed Him.]

    to find his brother Simon and tell him, "We have found the Messiah" (that 
    is, the Christ). {42} And he brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and 

[The disciples proclaim that they have found the Christ.]

    said, "You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas"  (which, when 
    translated, is Peter ). {43} The next day Jesus decided to leave for 
    Galilee. Finding Philip, he said to him, "Follow me." {44} Philip, like 
    Andrew and Peter, was from the town of Bethsaida. {45} Philip found 
    Nathanael and told him, "We have found the one Moses wrote about in the 
    Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote--Jesus of Nazareth, the son of 
    Joseph." {46} "Nazareth! Can anything good come from there?" Nathanael 
    asked. "Come and see," said Philip. {47} When Jesus saw Nathanael 
    approaching, he said of him, "Here is a true Israelite, in whom there is 
    nothing false." {48} "How do you know me?" Nathanael asked. Jesus answered,     "I saw you while you were still under the fig tree before Philip called 
    you." {49} Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you 
    are the King of Israel." {50} Jesus said, "You believe because I told you 
    I saw you under the fig tree. You shall see greater things than that." 
    {51} He then added, "I tell you the truth, you shall see heaven open, and 
    the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man." 

[Jesus calls more to follow him and tells of greater things to come.]

Who is the Word - the Christ - the Son of God?

For Christ and His Kingdom,
Richard Pitts

-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu       |    
Atlanta, GA                --|-- 
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Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism