HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: TALLAN@flis.utoronto.ca (David Tallan)
Subject: less traffic
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:11:04 GMT

I too have noticed a heck of a lot less traffic across the Digest
recently, getting one Digest a day containing at most two or three
messages. I really have trouble believing people have stopped
writing. Is this a problem at my end or what gives?
David/Thomas
David Tallan (tallan@flis.utoronto.ca)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: 22636SBS@msu.EDU ("Sandy.Straubhaar")
Subject: norraent tungumal
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 06:31:00 GMT

Kvedjur til rialtofolksins fra brynhildi kormaks dottur.
Good gentles, one of the requests I get most often has to do with good texts
for the selfteaching of (modern) Icelandic--that language being as close as we
can come nowadays to what Viking Age types would have spoken.  Up till now I
have only been able to point them to the Glendinning book or lend out my Jon
Fridjonsson. However, today's mail brings this good news (in the Frettabref of
the Stofnun Sigurdar Nordals): "The Icelandic Correspondence College offers a
beginners' Icelandic course for foreigners.  'Icelandic for Beginners' is a
practical guide to the language for those who want to study on their own.  For
further information write to: The Icelandic Correspondence College, P. O. Box
5144, 125 Reykjavik."  No details about costs or whether tapes come with it,
but I imagine they would fill you in if you should choose to write.
Gjorid thid svo vel!  Til hamingju!
brynhildr jarla kormaks dottir
22636sbs@msu.edu
From: dmb@lyapunov.ucsd.edu (Doug Brownell)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: tristadigiphobia
Date: 23 Jan 1993 03:17:20 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: lyapunov.ucsd.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

Philandros wrote:

:  Forgive me, but I can't resist; your spellings of 
: this word are most amusing:
: 
: "tristadigiphobia": possibly "the fear of sad fingers"
: 
: "tristadectophobia": possibly "the fear of beggars [who loiter on] three 
: porches" (not sure of this one?)
: 
:                               - Philandros Kalochromenos
:                     

Speaking of which, doesn't your name mean Loveman Goodtimer?
;-)

Thomas Brownwell
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: helm@ymir.ucdavis.EDU (Seriously Tweaked)
Subject: Heralds for Hire
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:41:30 GMT


I was fortunate enough to visit Carolingia last May and participated
in a challange tourney there.  Being very fond of heraldic display,
I hired a local herald, dressed him in a surcoat bearing my arms,
coached him in just how ostentaciously I wanted to be announced on the
field, and paid him with sweets.  It was a lot of fun, especially since
a few other fighters had done the same (no one else brought their own
livery though - I one-upped the locals there  ;-)

I'd do it again given the opportunity.  I didn't win all my fights, but
I opine that I took the field with heraldic schmaltz; and remember, good
gentles, a little schmaltz goes a long way (just ask me!) ...

Twcs, lurking about as of late

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: asgds@acad2.alaska.edu
Subject: SCA Campus Groups
Organization: University of Alaska
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 23:42:20 GMT



Unto the Gentles (and the not so gentles) of the Rialto,

	Im am thinking about trying to start an SCA chapter on the
campus of the University of Alaska Anchorage.  I would be very interested
in hearing any advice you may have for me so PLEASE E-mail me...
			asgds@acad2.alaska.edu
				OR
			asgds@acad2a.alaska.edu

	(I can't remember which one is right!) ANyway if you don't feel like
mailing me PLEASE POST!!!
					Your befuddled servant,
						Charles Toutaurien
					      MKA Geoff Stewart
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Subject: Re: awarding awards
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:05:16 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.233815.32417@watson.ibm.com> mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman) writes:
>
>That's one way to think about it, but it makes me cringe.  In my mind, one
>of the first qualifications of any peer is understanding herself.  If you
>don't know your own strengths and limitations, how can you possibly advise
>the Crown on other people's?  If a new peer has no idea that she is ready to
>be a peer, then she has no understanding of the nature of her new estate; I
>think that means that she isn't ready for peerage.
>

I think that this process of understanding has several stages:

1) Working hard "for the award".
2) Sulking because you didn't get the award after you thought you did
enough work.
3) Realizing that you enjoy what you were doing to get the award for its
own sake, and that awards are silly. (Or, realizing that all you wanted
was the award, and the work isn't worth it.)
4) Working hard "for the fun of it"
5) Getting the award after you had forgotten you ever wanted it at all.

At least, this is the way I've seen it work. Most people with the
"Laurel wanna-be" syndrome either quit or mellow out at stage 2. As a
not-gonna-be-a-peer with Peer friends, I have noticed that the Laurels
only start noticing candidates at stage 4 after they've mellowed a lot,
and have REALLY learned their art (or for Pelicans really worked their
butts off).

Lothar \|/
        0
From: vader@meryl.csd.uu.se (]ke Eldberg)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: icelandic wedding
Date: 25 Jan 93 14:08:28
Organization: University of Uppsala, Sweden
NNTP-Posting-Host: meryl.csd.uu.se
In-reply-to: nemesis's message of Mon, 25 Jan 1993 00:11:04 EST

Greetings from William de Corbie!

Varg Nagr asks for assistance in designing an Icelandic wedding for
two 10th century personas. The primary question is: what religion?
In the 900's, Iceland had both Christians and Pagans. The ceremonies
are a bit different -- though perhaps not quite as different as one
would think.
I may be able to dig up some hints, if you tell me the context.

William
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: habura@vccnw11.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Subject: Re: Islamic Heraldry
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:04:45 GMT

This is a long post...consider yourselves warned.

Trumpets and Tabards

T. Archer discusses using a quartering system for heralds' tabards.

My lord, I'd prefer to see heralds distinguished a) by the style of tabard
they wear, since heralds' tabards usually differed in style from the 
surcoats worn by fighters and b) by carrying a staff of office if they wish.
These staves are very useful as pointers and attention-getters in the list; 
it wouldn't surprise me to learn that our medieval predecessors used them for
the same reasons. (I blush to admit I used a white tuxedo-cane for a while,
borrowed from the rental store I was seamstressing in. I'll make myself
a real one one of these days....)
The idea of quartering the heralds' trumpets has an interesting period 
corrolary; frequently, English bishops would impale their arms with the 
arms of their see. (A nagging voice is telling me that German clergy quartered
the arms, based on a period manuscript. I will want to check it, however.)
On the other hand, I don't see a compelling reason to toss aside what the
period *heralds* did in favor of what period *clergy* did. 

*****************************************************************************

Levels of Authenticity

Bertram writes discussing levels of authenticity in SCA recreation.

I think I'd flip the definitions of L3 and L4. Hand-sewing and hand-dyeing 
are time consuming and (in the case of dyeing and weaving) require 
considerable space, skill and effort. Making an entire outfit with a 
contiguous gestalt merely requires research and attention to detail. 
It strikes me that having the necessary skill to (as appropriate) weave,
dye, handsew, and embroider a garment, which tasks were performed by four
separate groups of craftspeople in the Middle Ages, is much more impressive
(or insane) than merely putting together a garment that is convincing as
a 15th century Genoese merchant's, for example. My opinion of Laurel
caliber work in garb is an L3 who knows what should be done for an L4
recreation of the clothing, and can do *some* of it. 

*****************************************************************************

Narrow Focus Events: The Series

Doctor Peregrinus writes about narrow-focus events held in a series 
throughout a year.

Boy, that does sound like fun! I can imagine people involved in such a
thing writing temporary newsletters (the Lancastrian Times-Pickayune, anyone?)
about what's happening from their perspective back in the RMA; people
planning confrontations/interactions between their personae; etc. Too bad
I live all the way over here, three kingdoms away....

******************************************************************************

Islamic Script in Heraldry

In response to John Patrick's question:

Yes, Islamic script is permitted in SCA heraldry.


************

Alison MacDermot
*Ex Ungue Leonem*
From: Huy.Nghiem@dartmouth.edu (Huy Nghiem)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: New England SCA Chapter?
Date: 23 Jan 93 02:06:42 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

Howdy y'all.  Interested in joining the SCA, but am not aware of the
local chapter to Dartmouth College in New Hampshire.  Can someone
respond to percival@dartmouth.edu with the number and address of who to
talk to in order to join?  If there isn't a local chapter, I am aware
of several fellow students interested in starting a Dartmouth
chapter...

Percival Nghiem  603/640.4122          | Carpe caro --
percival@dartmouth.edu                 | Seize the meat!
From: bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Jennifer Geard)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Attitude Origins 
Distribution: world
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 02:53:21 GMT
Organization: Lethargy Inc.

Unto Bertram does Pagan send Greetings!

  > I wonder if we could enumerate the various sources of modern SCA attitudes.
  > Here are just a few, from my understanding of our organizational history:
    [list deleted]
  > What are some others I've missed in this quick note?

For the Romantic aspect (personal view):

  * Victorian Pre-Raphaelite painters (esp. Burne-Jones and D.G. Rosetti) 
    'a beautiful romantic dream of something that never was, never will be'
  * Fairy tales, in particular the children's versions of the Round Table 
    stories.

For history:

  * Real Renaissance artists (Titian's lushness and Artemesia Gentileschi's 
    violence.) 
  * Eleanor of Acquitaine, Henry VIII, and various other larger-than-life 
    stars of TV movies and Jean Plaidy novels.
  * The music.  (Well, for me.)

For practical attitudes (a *very* personal view):

  * lots of dressing up and play-acting as a kid.  Encouragement to do 
    bucket chemistry on the back lawn or in the kitchen, and tolerance of 
    most of the diverse and *wonderful* results.  ]^)  A mother who was a 
    fanatic hoarder, do-it-yourselfer, and ex-teacher, and an aunt whose 
    business makes wedding and evening dresses.  Too many libraries (phooey!  
    As if there's such a thing!), too many books in general, too much music, 
    and a fair amount of art.  Deep feelings of resentment about the 
    Industrial Revolution.  ]-)  ]-)  ]-)

That's my excuse:  what's yours?  ]-)

Pagan le Chaunster
________________________________________________________________________ 
Jennifer Geard                         bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz 
Christchurch, New Zealand 
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Treasurer/Seneschale
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:28:44

 RRB> I may be incorrect, but at least here in the West -
 RRB>  it is considered bad form for
 RRB> the Exchequer and the Seneschal to be the same person. 
 RRB> What with having the person who controls the money 
 RRB> be the same person who needs 
 RRB> access to it for events, etc.
 Ditto for Ansteorra (which is probably *why* Ulfie's Baron was under-
 whelmed...) It's generally a Bad Thing to have the same person sign 
 the checks as the person who keeps track of the $.  The Steppes recent 
 difficulty with our treasurer was due to the fact that nobody else was 
 seeing the bank statement....
     (make that:  was *possible* due....)
        Gwenllian Cwmystwyth
        Steppes, Ansteorra

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: dgreen@athena (David Greenebaum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Potential New Topics
Date: 22 Jan 1993 02:49:51 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena.berkeley.edu

Greetings from Bjalfi!

Quoth Daniel of Lincoln:
>This should really go to the Herald's Mailing List,
>scahrlds@pucc.princeton.edu (I think).

People other than I have discussed this on the Heralds' List, better
than I myself can address the issue.  But it deserves a response from
me, so I'll answer it here.

>What "idea that a herald on duty is the voice of the Crown" (Bjalfi)?
>Never heard of it before, and I've associated with a high-level
>herald.  In period and in my experience and knowledge, the herald
>was/is the voice of his lord, period.

Wee heraldlets in the West are often told that a herald on duty is
"the voice of the Crown".  Even in the WK Heralds' Handbook, in the 
section on Field and Duty Heraldry, written by Caoimhin o Fiodhabhra,
former Vesper Herald, there stands: "...remember that you are speaking
as the King's Voice....  The King's Voice is a *Useful Tool*.  Being a
tool keeps you safe from any undue reprisals [from] those who do not
appreciate loud noises or the accidental mispronunciation of their
names..." {WKHH, Sec. V.1, p. 1}  This passage is concerned with the
differences between the King's Voice and the King's Word (which is
*Law*), and it is closely followed by injunctions against the misuse of
the immunity involved in being a Useful Tool.

---------------------  Bjalfi Thordharson/College of St. Katherine/Province of
 |\  | |\  |\  |// |       the Mists/Principality of the Mists/West Kingdom
 | > | |\\ | \ |/  |   David Greenebaum/University of California/Berkeley, CA
 |<  | | \ |   |   |   dgreen@athena.berkeley.edu, dgreen@garnet.berkeley.edu
 | > | |   |   |   |
 |/  | |   |   |   |   "I make mistakes, but I am on the side of good -- by
---------------------  accident and happenchance." -- the Golux
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: donna@envy.kwantlen.bc.ca (Donna Hrynkiw)
Subject: S.C.A. in Literature
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 17:47:00 GMT

Just came across another reference to the S.C.A. in a work of fiction:
_Fallen_Angels_ by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle and Michael Flynn
describes the earth in a not-too-distant future when the inhabitants of
the space station and the earth-bound are at odds with each other. When
two space "angels" are accidentally marooned on earth, the science-fiction
community (and, in passing, the S.C.A. community) come to their rescue.
It's interesting to note that the staunch, anti-science earth authorities
were referred to as "'danes" (contraction of "mundanes") and their laws
as "danelaw". While the book's storyline is sort of mushy, the references
to fandom, classic s-f, and the S.C.A. kept me reading to the end.

Ta!

==================

Elizabeth "E.B." Braidwood                Donna Hrynkiw
Lions Gate, An Tir                        Kwantlen College
donna@envy.kwantlen.bc.ca                 Surrey, B.C.

Per bend sinister Or and vert, two bendlets enhanced above two holly leaves
all counterchanged.
From: Ulf.Gunnarsson@f1077.n147.z1.fidonet.org (Ulf Gunnarsson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Who's Next?
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 12:17:00 -0500

 On 01-13-93 TOMCAT wrote to ALL... 
 
 T > My personal feeling was that I, as Baronial Treasurer, was the acting 
 T > Seneschal until a replacement was named.  My Baron didn't like >that< 
 T > idea! 
 
   I don't think that's a bad idea...<g> 
 
 T >   JABBER v1.2  Namron - Where a fool can become a Baron! 
 
   I'll tell His Excellency you said that! 
 
Ulfie 
 
 
... OFFLINE 1.44 * Software: what you delete. Hardware: what you kick...
From: hjfeld@acs.bu.edu (harold feld)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Made in Atlantia
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:03:09 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

Unto all who read these words, and most particularly the learned
Hossein Ali Qomi (may he live to be a hundred and twenty!), greetings
from Yaakov.

In article <1993Jan23.013302.29603@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> greg@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Hossein Ali Qomi (mka Gregory F. Rose)) writes:

>Now for the real kicker.  "_In Atlantia fit_" is perfectly grammatical
>medieval Latin.  Yet, it doesn't have a medieval flavor to it.  I have
>examined thousands of medieval artifacts with manufacturer and
>ownership marks on them and I have never seen a national reference.
>Only occasionally do you see reference to a town.  Overwhelmingly it is
>the name of the manufacturer or owner which is present in the
>ablative with some form of _fio_.  "Made in Atlantia" has the ring of
>"Made in the U.S.A." precisely because physical identification of
>national origin of manufactured goods is a modern concept, not a
>medieval one.

Oh most learned Excellency (for it has come to my ears that this
long deserved accolade has at last been given), do you in your
discussion include seals?  For mine own studies have shown that many
communitties had seals, with which to stamp papers and goods
manufactured therein. (See Friedenberg, *Medievel Jewish Seals from 
Europe* p.94, p.133, and others.)  Also, in matters of ritual
importance, such as the growers of Etrogim, they would indicate
the place of origin. (This being important, as some Etrog growers
would use the fruits of grafted trees.  Such a practice is forbidden
among our people.)  Thus, the place where the etrog was grown became 
important, as certain regions could not be trusted.  So to with
other objects for which particular items of worth became associated.
(This last assertion comes from a speach I heard several years
ago from Prof. Jonathon Sarna of Brandies on the evolution of the
Etrog market.)

Thus, I postulate that an item might have placed on it some seal
of Atlantia, even if the sign be not engraved as a makers mark.
Howeer, if this custom be unknown among the Christians, than
I pray someone of more knowledge inform me.

In Service,
Yaakov
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: West Kingdom's Land Fund, Kingdom Trust, Inc.
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 15:16:04 GMT

Ellisif Flakkari wrote:
  I don't have the wording to hand, but the Articles of Incorporation state
  that the SCA can transfer assets only to other 501(c)(3) organizations
  *with compatible goals* to those of the SCA.  (In other words, SCA Inc. 
  can't donate money to, say, Greenpeace even if the latter is 501(c)(3),
  and it can't donate to organizations that are not 501(c)(3) no matter who
  they are and what they do.)

Not exactly.  The closest the Articles of Incorporation come to this is in
section V, where it talks about what happens to the SCA's assets should the
SCA close up shop:

    The property of this corporation is irrevocably dedicated to
  charitable purposes and no part of the net income or assets of this
  corporation shall ever inure to the benefit of any director, officer
  or member thereof or to the benefit of any private person.  Upon the
  dissolution or winding up of the corporation, its assets remaining
  after payment, or provision for payment, of all debts and liabilities
  of this corporation shall be distributed to a nonprofit fund,
  foundation or corporation which is organized and operated exclusively
  for charitable purposes and which has established its tax exempt
  status under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.

The By-laws repeat this, in slightly different wording:

  IV.  DEDICATION OF ASSETS 

  The properties and assets of the Society are irrevocably dedicated
  to charitable purposes.  No part of the net earnings, properties, or
  assets of this corporation, on dissolution or otherwise, shall inure
  to the benefit of any private person or individual, or any member,
  Director or officer of the Society.  On liquidation or dissolution,
  all properties and assets and obligations shall be distributed and
  paid over to an organization dedicated to charitable purposes which
  has established its tax-exempt status under Internal Revenue Service
  Code Section 501(c)(3).

A keyword search of all the governing documents does not show the word
"goal" or "compatible" anywhere.  This doesn't mean you are wrong,
Ellisif.  I have no idea what California Law says.  We are prohibited
from political action, though.  I have no idea if this means we
cannot contribute to Greenpeace and the like.

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
From: clynne@cco.caltech.edu (Connie Lynne Villani)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Wraps and baskethilts (was pseudo-illegal targets)
Date: 28 Jan 93 08:29:56 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu



I think I know what Dennis means when he talks about the difficulty of throwing
wraps with adequately covering baskethilts.

My basket covers basically a little more than a half-globe around my hand, righ
now, and doesn't interfere with wraps thrown at my opponents' heads. Yesterday,
however, I was trying to learn a "rising wrap" and the entire lower half of my
hand is a big, painful, self-inflicted bruise, thanks to my baskethilt.  The 
bars kept rolling along my hand whenever I got to the point in a wrap where 
my hand kind of turns over.  I borrowed a weapon which doesn't cover as much of
the hand (maybe this is a 1/3 globe) and had no problem with the shot.

P. S. Does anyone know a way around this problem? I padding the inside of the
baskethilt doesn't work well, and padding the outside is awkward...

Felicity Pig-working-on-a-summary-person  clynne@cco.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: tensen@aol.COM
Subject: unsubscribe
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:11:48 GMT

please unsubscribe me
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: period fighting styles
Organization: University of Toronto - Office of the Provost Marshal
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:02:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.161803.3865@colorado.edu> klosky@cage.Colorado.EDU (KLOSKY JAMES LEDLIE ) writes:

>To add to this, isn't there a story about William Marshall having to be
>cold-chiseled (sp?) out of his helmet after winning a tournement?  I don't
>have docs for this story, does anybody know if its true?  If it is true, 
>that would say to me that the padding used in period was sufficient to
>withstand multiple steel-bending blows without the occupent becoming
>senseless.

I had to be cold-chiselled out of my helmet after _losing_ a
tournament once ... and it only took one blow!

Aryk (who might well have been knocked senseless, and just didn't notice)


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca