HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elcranor@amhux1.amherst.edu (Erich Cranor '93)
Subject: Re: question + ROTJ FLAME
Summary: Votes for Empire
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 13:50:10 GMT

	In this discussion I've seen people preferring Jedi (hard to
believe) and Star Wars, as the original.  I'm posting the consensus of
about eight people here that Empire outshoined all the others.
	There was character development in terms of revelation in the
first movie, but little in the way of evolution.  In comparison, they
became real people in the 2nd movie, and all of sudden their words
were as interesting as the special effects--which seemed infinitely
imporved.  The important thing was that they weren't relying on the
tricks.
	Then the thrid movie came and it was all costumes and effects.
The confrontation between Vader and Luke under Bespin was
amazing--distubing visually and intriguing psychologically. How was it
resolved?  Pour on the corn syrup and let Vader turn good while the
emporer serves as absolute villain.  Why so simplisitic?  Why no moral
ambiguity?  Because the toy market was too successfull, they had to aim
the movie at up and coming youngsters.  Thus the trilogy that seemed
to grow with us (of course, I speak only for my age group) abandoned
us at the end.  This is the only explanation I have come up with.
	The space opera explanation is good--but the triumphant finish
need not be so overdone.  Look at the heroic resolution of Beowulf,
for example.
	A friend of mine says that EMpire was directed, or overseen,
or something by somebody differeent from the other two--like Lucas
entrusted it to somebody else--can anybody support or refute this?  I 
imagine it will be a while before I have a chance to check the credits.

ec



Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: loverde@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (AstralWolf)
Subject: Re: question + ROTJ FLAME
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 02:01:01 GMT

In <1992Aug25.065913.24618@athena.cs.uga.edu> jordan@castor.cs.uga.edu (Chuck Jordan) writes:
>
>2) The characterization.  I could no longer identify with any of the
>characters.  There were no memorable scenes as far as interaction goes; they
>all seemed to just be wandering around talking at each other.  Carrie
>Fisher often looked bored, and she had horrible lines she was forced to 
>read: "I know.  Somehow I've always known."  "What?  No, he's my brother."
>

     Hmm no memorable interactions?  Well I can't say there were many, but
hidden in this movie was one of the most memorable interactions of all three
movies (at least for me ;)
The confrontation of Luke vs Vader and Palatine.  SOme of Vader's best lines
came from this scene.  (Though of course in ANH he had some damn good ones)
SOmething like ...

   a sister!  Obi Wan was wise to keep her from me.  Now his failure is
complete.  If you won't turn to the Dark side, then perhaps she will.

     I dunno.  To me that line is just memorable, as is the entire
confrontation.  Admittedly the rest of the movie was rather dull.  The
Ewoks beating up stormtroopers was of course rediculous, and made them
seem like feeble old men.  (I mean cmon they were knocked out by a rock
hitting them in the head...what the hell use is that battle armor anyway?)
And the scenes on the planet with Solo just weren't too exciting.
I think it wrapped up the story well, but lacked the depth of the other two.
The best way to describe it is how much I like to rewatch the first two, but
Jedi just seems to be one of those well I watched the first to might as well
watch the conclusion type things, and isn't all that exciting.  Oh well,
my $.02...

						-- Jim

-- 
   /|        /              / |      /       /  /-/  Can be reached on the
  / |  /--/ --- |/-/ /-\|  |  |  ^  /  /-\  |  |/    Astral Planes known as:
 /--|  \-\   |  |   |   |  |  | /| /  |  |  |  |       loverde@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
/   | \--/  /  /    \--/| /   |/ |/   \-/  /   /       jvl45017@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
From: v113np2v@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (George D Emmons)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Canon...the Official Word from Lucasfilm.
Date: 27 Aug 92 17:59:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

in the Heir to the Empire Sourcebook, there is a disclaimer on the
inside front cover, which goes something like this:
     This publication, as well as all other publications
     occurring after Return of the Jedi, is pure speculation.
     Lucasfilm, ltd. reserves the right to change its mind at 
     any point in the future about all the stuff printed in the 
     stuff we're putting out right now...

Dontcha just LOVE these guys?
                                      George...
"Would you like some coffee? Some of your friends are here."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: ss@wpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter)
Subject: Super Nintendo Game
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 12:07:25 GMT

For all you Super Nintendo owners out there, Super Star Wars should be
coming out for the SNES soon. I saw some screen shots in a magazine
and it looks real good. 


-- 
                        Scott Streeter
                        ss@wpi.wpi.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: ss@wpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter)
Subject: Art of Books (was Re: Star Wars script distribution: new info)
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 00:59:29 GMT

>>>>> On 2 Sep 92 18:12:22 GMT, g-martin1@uiuc.edu (Gregory A. Martin) said:

g-martin1> Originator: gamg6900@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

g-martin1> I checked into purchasing _The Art of XXXXX_ books since
g-martin1> they contain the scripts for each movie, but these books
g-martin1> are out of print. There are smaller book versions of the
g-martin1> movie scripts but they are also out of print.

Just a note, that The Art of The Empire Strikes Back does NOT have the
movie script in it. The Empire Strikes Back Sketchbook does.

--
                        Scott Streeter
                        ss@wpi.wpi.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: mcclaine@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Casey)
Subject: Re: Big rebel ships
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 21:06:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.185421.12321@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> sdt8s@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Steve Tilson) writes:
>Actually, the big Rebel ships do serve a purpose. Their
>firepower is considerably greater than that of the fighters,
>and when the time comes when the fleets merge, the Rebel ships
>can be seen exchanging broadsides with the Star Destroyers.
>(Remember, too, that capital ship fire--particularly from the
>Mon Calamari Star Cruisers--brought down the Imperial Super
>Star Destroyer that was serving as command ship for the
>Imperial fleet.)
>

	For the most part, this person had the right idea.  Even though
	the movie may not have elaborated on it too much with flashy scenes,
	the Mon Calamari cruisers did keep the Imperial Cruisers at bay
	with heavy firepower.  I am sure, also, that they helped at least
	weaken the Imperial vessels, if not actually destroy a couple
	of them with concentrated firepower.  You do see one of the 
	Star Destroyers explode in the background while Adm. Ackbar 
	is giving the command to concentrate firepower on the Super 
	Star Destroyer.  The Calamari ships were, however, merely converted
	passenger liners, so they were not optimal combat machines like the
	Star Destroyers.  They were the best that the rebels had , though.

	Another point of note is that the cruisers did not acutally spell the
	final death knell of the Super SD, but they dying kamikaze crash
	of an A-Wing into the bridge of the SD, knocking it out of control
	and slamming it into the Death Star II.  However, I am sure that the 
	rebel cruisers weakened it a bit, but just a *small* bit!

	Finally, another poster was right in pointing out that the fighters
	went into hyperspace outside of the cruisers, so the cruisers did not
	function entirely like aircraft carriers.  They did, however, provide
	cover for the fighters and the main cruiser acted as the focal
	point of rebel operations (with some help from Lando in the
	Falcon of course).

	All, in all, I feel that all of the vessels were necessary for the
	operation to go well.  The cruisers did not just sit there and
	watch the show.  They can pack a serious punch to unwary Imperials!




	_/_/_/_/   _/_/_/_/   _/_/_/   	Han:  "I knew you were going to say
	_/     _/  _/       _/     _/          that, old fool."
	_/     _/  _/       _/              
	_/_/_/_/   _/_/_/   _/            
	_/   _/    _/       _/          Ben:  "Who's more foolish, the fool
	_/    _/   _/       _/     _/          or the fool who follows him?"
	_/     _/  _/_/_/_/   _/_/_/      
	Robert E. Casey  (mcclaine@milton.u.washington.edu)
From: cad214@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("P.Craig")
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Empire - cut scenes?
Date: 2 Sep 92 13:05:55 GMT
Organization: University of Strathclyde

I remember too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: bxp1628@hertz.njit.edu (Brian Perler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: canon
Date: 1 Sep 92 22:33:22 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <dragon.715198739@camelot> dragon@camelot.bradley.edu (Matthew Korth) writes:
>Well, I thought I'd gotten away from all the discussions about what
>was "canon" when I stopped reading the Star Trek newsgroups (except
>for alt.startrek.creative).  Apparently, I was wrong.  People, can we
>*please* just enjoy _Star_Wars_ and its spinoffs without these endless
>arguments over what actually happened?

Personally, I find it hard to enjoy a story based on established characters
if I think that some other writer is going to come by and write something
totally contradictory.  That just spoils both stories to me.  Maybe some
people don't mind, but I don't like it when people tell me that stories 
that I enjoyed never really happened.

Of course, for the most part, Star Wars has good continuity (because
Lucasfilm has to approve everything), but minor discrepencies do exist,
and some people (myself included) like to find ways to explain the
discrepencies, so as to not ruin our enjoyment of the stories.
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Ignoring Canon and other Silly Mistakes
Date: 23 Aug 92 21:17:41 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@pmax1.cis.pitt.edu

In article <1992Aug14.170527.22860@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> tlg4@po.CWRU.Edu (TJ Goldstein) writes:
>In a previous article, caer@iear.arts.rpi.edu (Charlie Figura) says:
>>I dont remember what the faq said, but if it did not include the *movie*
>>books as canon, well, its not fit for toilet paper.

>Now now, be nice.  You can't expect an FAQ to be complete for a group
>that's less than a year old.

	True. 

	Not to mention the fact that I don't take the movie BOOKS as canon
myself. The first one, MAYBE -- Lucas probably approved most of what went
in there (it was ghostwritten, probably by ADF I think). The others, however,
like most movie adaptations, add a whole bunch of stuff. SOME is actually
from what was intended but couldn't fit. Other parts are from OLD SCRIPTS
which were junked. Still others are MADE UP BY THE AUTHOR IN QUESTION
in order to fill in spaces that are needed for the written version but
not in the movie, and this made up stuff may have NO connection whatsoever
to what the creator of the movie intended.

	As far as I'm concerned, some of the books are really neat, but
the ONLY canon materials are what is on the screen in Star Wars, TESB,
and RotJ.


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
From: lim@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Julie Lim)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Mark Hamill's employed again
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:51:50 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark


	I forget whether anyone else has posted this here, but Mark Hamill
finally has another job. Fox is producing a daily afternoon _Batman_ animated
series, in which Hamill will be voicing the Joker. Or at least, so I've heard
from various sources; I've listened to the _Batman_ promos in which the Joker
speaks, and it doesn't sound much like the way I remember Hamill's voice. But
then again, this is a vastly different character from Luke, and who knows what
his voice may have gone through since '83?


-- 
MUDname: Sidera           "...If I seem to give a damn, please tell me. I would
University of Delaware      hate to be giving the wrong impression."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: mjenkins@alfred.carleton.ca (Michael Jenkinson)
Subject: Re: From Star Wars to Jedi ....
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 02:18:59 GMT

I've noticed in a number of recent posts that people are assuming that
because George Lucas is doing a major interview on the new Star Wars
series, people are going to watch for a May 1993 release date for the
first film.

The obvious question (and I am walking out on a BIG limb having just
started following this conference) is that if there was a new movie
coming out in May, it would have to have been shot by now, and would
now be in post-production (or pretty close).

I like to think I'm on top of these things (I'm a journalist, I'm
supposed to know what's going on...) but I can't ever remember seeing
any stories, photos, etc. about a new Star Wars movie *being made*.
I've heard lots of rumors, talk about casting, and such, but no
publicity shots, press releases, anything.

Am I really out of the loop? Is this the most secret movie shoot in
history? Given Star War & series' incredible popularity, you'd think
there would be a media crush on any new shootings.

So, as Jerry Seinfeld would say...what's the deal?

Any information greatfully received. Post or e-mail, your choice.

Michael*
From: shoham@ll.mit.edu (Daniel Shoham)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Big rebel ships
Date: 30 Aug 92 09:45:44 GMT
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory

The large rebel ships (cruisers, frigates) that went into action in the
battle of Endor (ROTJ) seem kind of useless! only the rebel fighters did
anything. Mostly, the fighters were busy PROTECTING the big ships from
the Impirials until the shield was destroyed.

So, my question is: what are those ships good for anyway? and even if there
are situations that call for big ship, using them in the Endor battle was
clearly silly. They just became targets! (which proved devestating when the
DS II turned out to be operational).

The big Imperial ships, on the other hand, do seem to serve some fighting
functions (they shoot!). And this leads to another question, why did the
Emperor order the Imperial fleet to stay out of the fighting in that battle?


- Dan Shoham
shoham@ll.mit.edu
From: z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Canon...the Official Word from Lucasfilm.
Date: 30 Aug 92 22:59:50 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <ah1eq2w@Unify.Com>, tsv@dbrus.Unify.Com (Tim Vannaman) writes:
> In article <1992Aug29.132523.722@uvm.edu> cblaise@moose.uvm.edu.UUCP (Chris Blaise) writes:
>>From article <Bto4Fp.170@acsu.buffalo.edu>, by v113np2v@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (George D Emmons):
>> o SWRPG 2nd edition is to be released in October.
>   What is SWRPG?

	Star Wars Role Playing Game

> 
>> o The sourcebook for The Last Command (final Zahn novel in this series) will
>>   be released simutaniously with Zahn's novel.
>   What is a sourcebook?         
>   Does anyone have a date when the "The Last Command" will be released?
	
	The sourcebook will be for the game.

> 
>> o The "official" timeline for the movies is: ANH-(2-3 years)-ESB-(2-3 weeks)-
>>   ROTJ.
>> o WEG's new contract goes until 1996 when all three of the new movies will
>>   be released, each within 6 months of each other.
>  
>     Who is WEG ?

	West End Games, the folks who make SWRPG.

Brandon Cope

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: aa595@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dan Duvall)
Subject: brand new letterboxed A.N.H. laserdisc for sale soon
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 19:26:09 GMT


I'll be getting an extra copy of Star Wars on laserdisc (the
letterboxed version) in the near future. If anyone wants to buy 
it, let me know: I'm asking $50, postpaid. I should have it in roughly
2-3 weeks.

It'll be brand new in its original shrink wrap.

-- 
aa595@cleveland.freenet.edu  (Dan Dooovall)

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: memmer@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John B. Memmer)
Subject: Re: Does anyone know the name....
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 06:37:29 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.184731.9128@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> bmcm@beech.lle.rochester.edu (Brian McMaster) writes:
>
>Does anyone know the name of the monster in the sand pit that Luke
>and Han were to be thrown into (by Jaba) and slowly digested ?
>
>Also, what was the name of the Creature that Luke killed by closing
>the gate on when it was about to eat him (TESB I think).  This was in
>Jaba's place.

I`ll get it!! I`ll get it!!

Answer to your first question: The All-mighty Sarlacc
                 \ 
      et le deuxieme question: The Rancor

Hope this helps!








-- 
*********************************************************
* Performers and portrayers, * John B. Memmer           *
* Each Anothers audience,    * memmer@gn.ecn.purdue.edu *
* Inside the gilded cage     * Rush-Indianapolis,6/24/92*
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: tlg4@po.CWRU.Edu (TJ Goldstein)
Subject: Re: Hiding a Skywalker on Tatooine.
Reply-To: tlg4@po.CWRU.Edu (TJ Goldstein)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 18:46:06 GMT


In a previous article, v113np2v@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (George D Emmons) says:

>    IMO , Ben and Yoda knew that Vader would turn. However, if they
>sent him into Palpatine with their blessing as well, Luke would
>have been way overconfident and the Emperor would have chewed him 
>up. As it stood, it took all Luke had, and he still lost the fight.
>Had Vader not made the turn, Luke would be scattered across the 
>galaxy.

Personally, our group all left the theatre with a strange urge for
french fries ...

-- 
Assistant Sysop, SF&F Sig       (GO SCIFI)|TJ Goldstein
Primary Sysop, CWRU Safety Sig (GO SAFETY)|tlg4@Cleveland.Freenet.Edu
Chat Coord., Academy One Sim's   (GO ACAD)|
        "I find your lack of faith... disturbing."   --- D. Vader 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: tapio@nic.funet.fi (Tapio Keih{nen)
Subject: Re: From Star Wars to Jedi ....
Organization: Finnish Academic and Research Network, FUNET
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 11:16:35 GMT

In article <BtqpIJ.529@news.cso.uiuc.edu> rnmg1200@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (A Lady and her Walrus) writes:
>In article <1992Aug29.092918.18895@nic.funet.fi> tapio@nic.funet.fi (Tapio Keih{nen) writes:
>>
>>Is this thread on the new SW movie necessary? 
>
>You started it, buddy...:)
>
OK, then I'll continue it a bit more...

>>new Star Wars movie'. We see it next year if we get a new SW movie;
>>if we get, I'll be $10 richer, and if we don't get, I'll lose $10.
>
>Actually, we'll see later this year; if there's going to be a new movie,
>you can bet Lucas will have trailers in the theaters by Christmas.  Unless
>he's releasing it for _next_ Christmas, in which case we'll probably see
>them in the spring of '93, but maybe sooner than that.  You can't tell
>me Lucas won't at least _hype_ the damn thing for all it's worth; after
>the media blitz of the first three movies, and the Indy flicks, it's a safe
>bet he'd milk it for all it's worth in advertising and tie-ins.
>
I wouldn't put my money on that... think what happened with the
Halloween (I don't remember the sequel number) movie - no-one knew
about it until about two weeks before the premiere. Halloweens are
pretty popular among those horror movie fans although its nothing like
Star Wars.

--
  Tapio Keihanen  \ rare DIO records wanted /    Holy Father - Holy Ghost
tapio@nic.funet.fi  \                     /  Who's the one who hurts you most?
From: darkstar@pecan.cns.udel.edu (The Janitor Of Anarchy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Update to Falcon In Tractor Beam
Summary: How About...
Keywords: likes jawas, hates ewoks, knows Han, owes Jabba, etc...
Date: 27 Aug 92 05:23:44 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Green Circle Of Vengence

In article <66974@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt0754b@prism.gatech.EDU (John Richard Deyonke) writes:
>
>As a follow up to my question about the escape pods:
>
> Many people suggested to me that Han either DID launch the
>pods as a diversion escaping Tatooine or that he had them removed   
>or somehow rigged already for his smuggling operation. I can
>buy both of these lines of reasoning so now let me follow up
>with another problem which I should have put in my first post:
>
>The  layout of the Falcon (according to the West End RPG) shows
>that there are two escape pods, one above the ramp and another
>one at the same location on the port side of the ship.  Looking
>at the film, the MF does have both pods intact while in the DS.
>And even though Han is my alltime favourite movie character, I
>doubt even he is cocky enough to run around like he does without
>the MF's escape pods.  Any new theories?
>
>
>  I'd be willing to say West End made a mistake in their
>layout of the MF.  But that would be too easy.  Plus, I still
>think that after reading the log, the first thing the Imperials do 
>is check the status (or existence) of the MF's escape pods.  Of course,
>the Imperials are dumb, but I don't think they're that dumb.
>More thoughts wanted...
>
>
>Jay
>
>-- 
>John Richard Deyonke
>Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
>uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt0754b
>Internet: gt0754b@prism.gatech.edu

Well, you could argue that what you see is the outside of the where 
the escape shuttles are released.  Think of the round part as being
a door or something that slides open.  (It may be stretching it, but
we'll take some liberties, after all, the force is with us...)  Now,
Han could be bold enough to actually fly around without any escape
pods, after all the Falcon is as much a part of his as his arm.  Or,
the pods could be rigged so that they appear to have been ejected.
Now, I assume that Han has that bogus "ejected" log as a prefabricated
precaution.

	--Jerry


-- 

Jerry Alexandratos           | "Choosing a president is like going to
darkstar@freezer.cns.udel.edu|  an adult bookstore...  It's picking 
darkstar@bach.udel.edu       |  the dildo that will hurt the least!!!"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: tlg4@po.CWRU.Edu (TJ Goldstein)
Subject: Re: Empire / RotJ scripts ?
Reply-To: tlg4@po.CWRU.Edu (TJ Goldstein)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 21:28:20 GMT


In a previous article, MHART00@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU (mason hart) says:

>Can anyone post the scripts for Empire or Jedi?  Star Wars has been
>up two or three times already, but I haven't seen the others.
> 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

NO, PLEASE MAKE IT STOPPPPP!!!!!!!

If you have it, Please don't post it, just write to this guy
and tell him you do and/or post the fact that you have it and let
people get it from you, OK?  After the copyright controversy last
time I don't think my nerves can take this again.

-- 
Assistant Sysop, SF&F Sig       (GO SCIFI)|TJ Goldstein
Primary Sysop, CWRU Safety Sig (GO SAFETY)|tlg4@Cleveland.Freenet.Edu
Chat Coord., Academy One Sim's   (GO ACAD)|
        "I find your lack of faith... disturbing."   --- D. Vader 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars