HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tbsamsel@DG11SVARMD.ER.USGS.GOV (Theodore B. Samsel)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Subject: RE: BAD DATA DISPLAY / GRAPHS ETC.
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:57:54 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Surely all of us who have produced graphics for clients have taken
jobs where we make a "silk purse out of a sow's ear". I.e. the client
brings in spurious data that we must tart up.
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
""   Ted Samsel (TBSAMSEL@QVARSA.ER.USGS.GOV)                                ""
""          or  (TBSAMSEL@DG11SVARMD.ER.USGS.GOV)                            ""
||          or  (BH419@CLEVELAND.FREENET.EDU)                                ||
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     "Don't you feel more like you do now than you did before?"
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 09:46:59 -0500
From:         hoffmann@URZDFN.KARTOGRAPHIE.TU-DRESDEN.DBP.DE
Subject: Re: Regarding "Bad" Graphfx

As a cartographer I w'd say - you are nearby...!!!
The problem of academic cartography in Germany is that it is "occupied" by
geodesy & geography... I don't know how is situation in USA. For western
Europe you can see one of the papers (not handy just now) in last
GIS-Europe dealing with academic cartography & GIS from UK point of view.
Regards,
FH-TUD
From: ESRIST08@UBVMS.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Subject: Re: BAD DATA DISPLAY / GRAPHS ETC.
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:30:31 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
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look at mark monmonier's how to lie with maps book, and tufte's book on the
display of visual information.

christopher weber
esrist08@ubvms
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 11:58:10 EST
From:         Reed Altemus <IQM104@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject:      Re: BAD DATA DISPLAY / GRAPHS ETC.
              11 Nov 1992 15:25:00 GMT from <MAPPAMUNDI@CSOVAX.PORTSMOUTH.AC.UK>

Justin,
   Take a look at anything by Edward Tufte: "Envisioning Information" (1990)
and especially "The Visual Display of Quantitative Information".
These will give you an idea of what "good data display" is.

Reed Altemus


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
===========================================================================

Leard Reed Altemus, SLIS University of Rhode Island, Kingston

email: IQM104@uriacc.uri.edu
      raltemus@well.sf.ca.us
     laltemus@risc1.acc.uri.edu
mail: Box 156 Kingston RI 02881 USA
tel:   401-782-6337
___________________________________________________________________________
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 09:25:21 -0400
From:         Gary Davis <davis@UNBSJ.CA>
Subject:      Re: Definitely Huff

On Thu, 12 Nov 1992, MAPPAMUNDI@CSOVAX.PORTSMOUTH.AC.UK wrote:

> Anyway keep on writting!
> Rich 'Universuty of Portsmouth' - twinned with nowhere

1) E-mail, like most graphs in advertisements, isnt't worth the paper it's
printed on.
2) I didn't know that Portsmouth was twinned with Saint John!
-------------------------------------------------------------
Gary Davis (PhD)    Associate Professor   Faculty of Business
      University of New Brunswick in Saint John (UNBSJ)
     P.O. Box 5050   Saint John, N.B.   Canada   E2K 3M2
        (506) 648-5537 (Answering machine at my office)
       (506) 648-5528 (UNBSJ fax machine) davis@unbsj.ca
From: CRAMPTONJ@CSOVAX.PORTSMOUTH.AC.UK (jeremy)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Subject: Signal/noise ratios (was:bad graphics)
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:11:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via:      UK.AC.PORT.CV; 12 NOV 92 16:10:03 GMT

>please unsubscribe me from this list.  There is too much private
>discussion and rehashing of obvious sources that should be in
>a FAQ file.  I cannot afford to pay for the machine cycles (yes
>I pay for it myself, it is not paid for by my institution.)

As original listowner and primary cause of the recent traffic,
let me just say that I understand your position (having had to
pay for incoming email myself).  The situation arises from some
eager, rather inexperienced students finding out the attractions
and power of email for the first time.  They are also at a point
in the class where they are seeking advice, so it probably seems
a lot is happening all of a sudden.

I think however, that they will probably learn to take some of the
follow-up chat to private email, rather than swamping the list.  I
am loathe to discourage anyone from using this resource in these
financial times when libraries aren't all they should be.

If you prefer a less radical response to the traffic, set ingrafx
to nomail for a while, or try reading it on USEnet/netnews (if
you have access).  btw, only you can unsubscribe yourself, as I am
no longer listowner of ingrafx.  But it seems to me that there is a
lot of useful material on the list, and we have quite a way to go before
we reach the posting levels of say, GIS-L!

If there is concensus in the group, I will as a last resort consider
making it moderated (which means we need a volunteer!).

__
jeremy..                cramptonj@csovax.portsmouth.ac.uk   [internet]
                  or..  cramptonj@uk.ac.portsmouth.csovax   [janet]
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:19:13 -0600
From:         "(Marsha-W)" <marsha-w@UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      RE: AUDIO DIMENSIONS IN CARTOGRAPHY

>Hi Marsha,
Re: Gettysburg battle maps with audio element.
>
>In answer to your question, yes, this is the kind of thing I would
>like to study; I remember seeing this stuff in action when I went
>to Manassas (?) in Virginia a couple of years ago.
>Do you have any info?

I'm sure we can all pitch in here--what is the best help?  Addresses of the
Park
Service locations?  Who constructed and erected these displays?  They are
extremely
popular--my kids loved them, and my husband and I learned a lot.



Marsha Woodbury  / marsha-w@uiuc.edu / U. of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

Advice from a mother to her college age, Boston-bound daughter:

"Never go out with an MIT student; they are horrible dates.  More than
any other college men, they are only after one thing:

Sleep."
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:18:00 CST
From:         CHUNGR@ISCSVAX.UNI.EDU
Subject:      Re: Regarding "Bad" Graphfx

When my students ask me what is a good map, I tell them that the first question
to ask is : "What is the purpose of the map"?
        Roy Chung (chungr@uni.edu)
        Dept of Geography, University of Northern Iowa
        Cedar Falls, IA 50613-0406
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 08:10:28 EST
From:         "Michael A. Neacsu" <neacsu@NCSC.ORG>
Subject:      RE: AUDIO DIMENSIONS IN CARTOGRAPHY
              "MAPPAMUNDI@CSOVAX.PORTSMOUTH.AC.UK" at Nov 11, 92 12:49 pm

Howdy INGRAFX participants...

Here at the North Carolina Supercomputing Center, there is some
efforts in ''sondification: the use of sound to represent data.''
We have some specialized equipment such as the CERL Sound Group's
KYMA/CAPABYRA multi-DSP synthesizer, misc. synthesizers, etc.  Our
strongest suit is visualization, and we are home/host to the Internation
Application Visualization Systems (AVS) Center, but we see promise
in sondification.  We also have the usual supercomputing resources:
Cray, massively parallel KSR1, Convex, IBM 3090, SGI Power Series, HIPPI
communications, etc.  I would appreciate any info concerning other
efforts in sound and GIS.

Thanks in advance
Michael Neacsu
<neacsu@ncsc.org>


>
> Fellow INGRAFX users,
>
> As part of the coursework component of my advanced cartography course,
> I have to come up with a research bid or grant application on a topic
> derived from the discussions and themes in class.
>
> Last week, we examined the issues surrounding the MacEachren & DiBiasey
> (1991) animated AIDS map article. One of the subjects raised was the use
> of audio as part of the cartographic representation process. I am very
> interested in this kind of thing anyway but I would appreciate some refer-
> ences concerned with (a) any work carried out so far in this field and (b)
> possibilites for research.
>
> Thanks
> Lee
>
> DEPARTMENT OF GEOGRAPHY
> UNIVERSITY OF PORTSMOUTH
> GREAT BRITAIN.
>
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Via: uk.ac.portsmouth.csovax; Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:24:27 +0000
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:25:00 GMT
From:         MAPPAMUNDI@CSOVAX.PORTSMOUTH.AC.UK
Subject:      BAD DATA DISPLAY / GRAPHS ETC.

AS PART OF MY THIRD YEAR COURSE IN CARTOGRAPHY I'M INTERESTED IN

LOOKING AT BAD DATA DISPLAY (WHETHER DELIBERATE OR NOT). I'VE SEEN

HOWARD WAINERS ARTICLE IN THE AMERICAN STATISTICIAN - ANYBODY GOT ANY

OTHER REFERENCES / IDEAS ETC ?


JUSTIN, UNIVERSITY OF PORTSMOUTH.
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 19:19:47 CST
From:         Fred Detwiler <ST8330@SIUCVMB.BITNET>
Subject:      Definitely Huff

Hi,
      I second the comment about Huff's How to Lie with Stats.  I think
one important aspect of the book is that the simplest info can be distorted
in ways that are hard to detect.  My $0.02.
FRED DETWILER
ST8330@SIUCVMB.BITNET
SOUTHERN ILLINOIS UNIVERSITY (CARBONDALE)
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Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 13:50:28 +0100
From:         terjem@IGF.UNIT.NO
Subject:      BAD DATA DISPLAY / GRAPHS ETC.
              12 Nov 1992 12:34:00 GMT
              <"alf.uib.no.721:12.10.92.12.34.46"@uib.no>

Please unsubscribe me from this mail list. (Here is too much privat
discussion).

Terje

-------			     -------		           -------
Terje Midtboe
Division of Surveying and Mapping	Phone:  +47 7 594583
University of Trondheim			Fax:    +47 7 594621
N-7034 TRONDHEIM			E-mail: terjem@igf.unit.no
NORWAY
-------			     -------			   -------
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 14:55:00 GMT
From:         Tom Portante <0003784077@MCIMAIL.COM>
Subject:      SIGNOFF

 Please remove my name from the INGRAFX (listserv) mailing list.
                                   --  Tom Portante
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 09:15:37 -0500
From:         JBK5@PSUVM.BITNET
Subject:      Sound and Cartography

regarding the discussion of sound for information display: as far as i
know there are currently three cartographers/geographers who have dealt
or are dealing with this topic.

i finished an paper on the topic a few months back and am currently
working on a demonstration video (created with macintosh director software).
the paper is organized around the idea of "sound variables" as analagous
to Jacques Bertin's visual variables.  the paper also includes a literature
review and sets the broader context of how sound fits into cartographic
design and visualization.  the citation:

J.B. Krygier  "Sound Variables, Sound Maps, and Cartographic Design."

Peter Fisher (university of leicester) just sent me a copy of a paper
which uses sound to "hear" error in classified remotely sensed images.
he has also constructed a demo software application which runs off dos.
it is a curious program.  the citation

Peter Fisher  "Hearing the Error in Classified Remotely Sensed Images."

both of these papers have been sent out for review so they are sort of in
limbo. i guess the best way to deal with this is to contact the indidual
authors if you want additional information.

finally, Chris Weber (PhD student at SUNY Buffalo) is researching
harmonic intervals as they could be used for representing information.
Chris's approach is more oriented toward musical structures, whereas
Peter and mine are more basic, dealing with individual sound elements.
there are, of course, benefits and problems with either approach.  all
of these approaches are somewhat different from the "realistic" use
of sound (sound icons or "earcons") that have been mentioned with regard
to the battlefield maps.

so contact me personally if anyone wants more information on any of this.

jbk


   ' . ' ' '  .'.'.'..''.'.'..''..'.'.'.''..'.'...''...''' '  . '   '  .
 '    . '..'.'jb krygier    penn state encampment of geography . ' '  .
 .  ' ' .'.. 'jbk5@psuvm.psu.edu          blaise@.essc.psu.edu .'. ' '
   '  '   ' '..'..'...'.''...'.'.'.'...'.'.'''.'.''.'.'.' . .  ' .  ' '
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 11:53:27 -0400
From:         Gary Davis <davis@UNBSJ.CA>
Subject:      Re: BAD DATA DISPLAY / GRAPHS ETC.

On Wed, 11 Nov 1992, MAPPAMUNDI@CSOVAX.PORTSMOUTH.AC.UK wrote:

> AS PART OF MY THIRD YEAR COURSE IN CARTOGRAPHY I'M INTERESTED IN
> LOOKING AT BAD DATA DISPLAY (WHETHER DELIBERATE OR NOT). I'VE SEEN
> HOWARD WAINERS ARTICLE IN THE AMERICAN STATISTICIAN - ANYBODY GOT ANY
> OTHER REFERENCES / IDEAS ETC ?
> -- JUSTIN, UNIVERSITY OF PORTSMOUTH.

Wow! Justin, are you screaming, or what?!?

"My brother Alan", as I call him in this list, is going to visit you in
December!  Your topic is his topic.  Talk to Jeremy Crampton for details,
and tell your friends.
-- Gary Davis
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 06:58:43 CST
From:         Marsha Woodbury <mcwg9235@UXA.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      RE: AUDIO DIMENSIONS IN CARTOGRAPHY
              "MAPPAMUNDI@csovax.portsmouth.ac.uk" at Nov 11, 92 12:49 pm

Hi
I'm a new member of this group, and I am interested in ways
of communicating the results of research in visual and
audio and even (if necessary) tactile form.
When I read the post about cartography and audio, it
reminded me of the map displays of the Civil War battles--
most memorable one was at Gettysburg--it's like a sound
and light show, showing the battles, and I believe they
have an audio tape with sound effects--cannons going off,
etc.  Is that the type of thing you are studying?
--
Marsha Woodbury   marsha-w@uiuc.edu
A simile is like a metaphor.
University of Illinois, Middle of Nowhere
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 07:25:30 CST
From:         Marsha Woodbury <mcwg9235@UXA.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      examples, please
              at Nov 11, 92 8:10 am

I would sure appreciate some examples of the "sondification"
you have done.  Here at Illinois I have seen the thunderstorms
etc. that our super-computing center has done--truly mind-
boggling.  Is everyone aware of these videos?
--
Marsha Woodbury   marsha-w@uiuc.edu
A simile is like a metaphor.
University of Illinois, Middle of Nowhere
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Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 05:36:09 CST
From:         Marsha Woodbury <mcwg9235@UXA.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Definitely Huff
              "MAPPAMUNDI@csovax.portsmouth.ac.uk" at Nov 12, 92 11:06 am

> So then what have you got against the 'E' mail species in general?????

I have such a rotten short-term memory that I have forgotten
what I said about the E mail species.  What did Isay??
>
> So then what is this Huff book then?  It sounds like an interesting read on
> how to manipuale statistics whilst appearing to depict the trueth.
>
I bought a book called "Innumeracy" by John Paulos--this book was a
best-seller on "mathematical illiteracy and its consequesnces"--this book
had particular relevance to me as I am a journalist (one of the hats
I wear).  However, the classic book was "How to Lie with Statistics"
by Darrell Huff with 86 pictures of Irving Geis.  It cost $3.50 in 1954.
He says, "This book is sort of a primer in how to use statiestics
todeceive:
Think about the consequences of our national math consciousness--
the Savings and Loan scandal, the national debt, credit card debt,
etc.
And who is the most mathophobic of all??  Journalists, I'll bet!

--
Marsha Woodbury   marsha-w@uiuc.edu
A simile is like a metaphor.
University of Illinois, Middle of Nowhere
From: wolcott@DPW.COM (Michael Wolcott)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Subject: unsubscribe me, please
Date: 12 Nov 92 13:17:44 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Please unsubscribe me.

Tanks!

Mike
wolcott@dpw.com
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Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 09:32:23 -0500
From:         JBK5@PSUVM.BITNET
Subject:      Regarding "Bad" Graphfx

the idea of "bad" graphics is always a stinker because, as Dr. Edney has
noted, you have to first define what "bad" is.  just look at the big
flap over the Peter's Projection (ridiculed as a "bad" map projection by
many cartographers while trumped up by its somewhat politicized promoters)
to see that this isn't a clear issue.  there are conflicting functions of
graphics and it becomes difficult to judge a graphic created for one
purpose based on the criteria for another.  another example would be the
(in)famous USA Today graphics (or any flashy news graphics) which are
generally low in information and high in "chart-junk".  they may be bad
from one perspective (say an academic who researches graphs) but good
from another (the newspaper editor who sees sales go up because of the
cutsie graphics).

i guess a reasonable approach to the topic would be to look at the heavies
in info-graphics and see what they have to say about what is good and what
is bad.  along with this you should clarify what their intent and criteria
are for making such judgements.  tufte is one obvious source: he is best
known for his goal of increasing the "ink" on a graphic devoted to actual
information and decreasing the "ink" on a graphic devoted to non-data.
jacques bertin's books (especially graphics and graphical information
processing) is more methodical than tufte's work and offers an array of
visual variables and the kind of information (quantitative, qualitative,
etc.) they can represent.  his book has examples of good and poor uses
of the visual variables.  another source would be eduard imhoff's classic
article on type placement (published in the American Cartogapher 2:2, 1975)
which also has good/bad.  there are others too...anyhow...the point is
that all of these sources could be valuable to at least investigating
what researchers on info-graphics have said is good/bad without having
to get tangled in the more difficult task of sorting out what is REALLY
good/bad.

jbk


   ' . ' ' '  .'.'.'..''.'.'..''..'.'.'.''..'.'...''...''' '  . '   '  .
 '    . '..'.'jb krygier    penn state encampment of geography . ' '  .
 .  ' ' .'.. 'jbk5@psuvm.psu.edu          blaise@.essc.psu.edu .'. ' '
   '  '   ' '..'..'...'.''...'.'.'.'...'.'.'''.'.''.'.'.' . .  ' .  ' '
From: MAPPAMUNDI@CSOVAX.PORTSMOUTH.AC.UK
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Subject: RE: BAD DATA DISPLAY / GRAPHS ETC.
Date: 12 Nov 92 12:40:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via:      UK.AC.PORT.CV; 12 NOV 92 12:39:41 GMT

Well Matthew, what do I mean by bad?  Good question, is bad data display
just the opposite of good data display or is there more to it?  I guess
what I am getting at is graphics that are designed to deliberately mislead
the viewer -- propaganda graphics!!  They must exist, political examples
perhaps?  I'll check out the references other people have suggested and see
 where
perhaps?  I'll check out the references other people have suggested and see
 where this takes me

Justin
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 12:38:53 -0500
From:         FOXG@WCSUB.CTSTATEU.EDU
Subject:      RE: examples, please

Please... more on the UIUC thunderstorm simulations.
Geoff Fox
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:12:25 CST
From:         Marsha Woodbury <mcwg9235@UXA.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Definitely Huff
              Nov 11, 92 7:19 pm

Hi
I have a copy of Huff's book, How to Lie With Statistics.
It is out of print--you probably can get it from a library,
but if anyone needs some copies of anything, please let me know.

--
Marsha Woodbury   marsha-w@uiuc.edu
A simile is like a metaphor.
University of Illinois, Middle of Nowhere
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Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 05:29:12 CST
From:         Marsha Woodbury <mcwg9235@UXA.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      funny aspect to sound
              "Jeff.Spitulnik@UM.CC.UMICH.EDU" at Nov 11, 92 10:41 pm

> of the role of forest fires in the park from 1690 to 1990 including one with
> animated colors and sounds representing the average age of the trees in the
> park and occurrences of fires. It's pretty neat, but in a small study I did
> trying to get preliminary data on whether this representation works or not,

is the sound the rush of wind, the sound of fire?  Does it go with what
you are seeing?
>

so you asked your mother to be the "sample" again, I see...
> (Prof in the School of Education) is researching media affects on students
> learning chemistry. (whoops, I meant 'effects') His software shows multiple
> representations of concepts. For example, to show the effect of heating

Here at the U of I, prof Stan Smith, Chemistry, has a whole lab
of simulated chemistry experiments--uses multi-media at each station,
students decide what to mix with what, and they end up with either
an "explosion" or a success.  When it comes to sound, the first thing
they ALL do is turn it off!!!
Why?
Who wants everyone else to know they just "blew up" the building by
mixing the wrong chemicals???

--
Marsha Woodbury   marsha-w@uiuc.edu
A simile is like a metaphor.
University of Illinois, Middle of Nowhere
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ingrafx
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 09:34:54 -0500
From:         JBK5@PSUVM.BITNET
Subject:      Huff's How to Lie With Statistics

contrary to a former post, i recently picked up a copy of this book
so it is still in print.  the publisher is norton, the price was something
like $3.50.  it is in its 47th printing.

jbk

   ' . ' ' '  .'.'.'..''.'.'..''..'.'.'.''..'.'...''...''' '  . '   '  .
 '    . '..'.'jb krygier    penn state encampment of geography . ' '  .
 .  ' ' .'.. 'jbk5@psuvm.psu.edu          blaise@.essc.psu.edu .'. ' '
   '  '   ' '..'..'...'.''...'.'.'.'...'.'.'''.'.''.'.'.' . .  ' .  ' '
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