From: cacst9+@pitt.edu (Cecelia A Clancy)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: holocaust almanac
Date: 2 Oct 92 10:51:05 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


>    In article <1992Sep30.2176.139@channel1> "john lovett" 
>    <john.lovett@channel1.com> writes:

>You and the other Holocaustomaniacs have been spewing this drivel since
>the end of World War Two, but people are finally beginning to realize
>that it is nothing but a gigantic hoax, used as a moral club to beat
>Christians over the head, and to help establish your racist state of
>Israel.

JOHN, This is exactly what we Revisionists NOT need.    There is enough
psychological and sociological reqsons why people who believe in the
"standard version" of the Holocaust would just automatically assume
that anybody who asks questions about the Six Million is some kind of
neo-Nazi or anti-Semite.    I have been called these myself when there
was no intended anti-Semitism on my part.     For the majority of (at 
least Ashkenazic) Jews, there are additional psychological and
social factors.    These things alone are hard enough and prevent
Revisionists and Defenders of the Legend from finding common ground
that we could otherwisr find if we were not so busy calling each
other anti-Semites, Exterminationists, neo-Nazis, Holohoaxers, net-nazis, 
and now, Holocaustomaniacs.


Yes, "the drivel has been spewed since the end of WWII", as you put it,
or "shoved down out throats", as I would say it.    It has most especially
been shoved down us Germans' throats to a much greater extent that for
Western civilization in general.     I do not know what is happening in
other countries, but in the United States, there has been much less
shoving of the Holocaust down us Germans' throats than in the past.   For
example, in school, I had to endure Holocaust-inspired ethnic intimidation
in school on a regular basis.    The teachers, whose only "training" in the
subject was what they remember from the severely Germanophobic newsreels
they saw  as kids and as teenagers and from any ol' wild Holocalust story
they heard (many of which are today totally or partially refuted by the
"standard" academic and professional historians who specialize in the
Holocaust subject).    Teachers today are offered formal training in many
school districts  and many districts have adopted carfully studied formal
Holocaust curricula and guidlines for the teachers.    We Revisionists
might disagree with the pure historical teachings of these curricula,
but they have made a careful effort to GET  RID OF THE GERMANOPHOBIA, which
I deeply appreciate.     In my day, the  emphasis was on the Holocaust as
an example of "you bad, bad Germans", or of "the intrinsic evilness of
the German people", as teacher I had for READING class would regularly
say.    She was NOT Jewish, rather, she was a Self-Hating German.   We
had one Jewish teacher that I know of (Mr. G.) and our principal was not
only Jewish, but somebody who had fled his native  Austria because of
HItler and his extremely anti-Semitic policies and programs.    Neither
Mr. G. nor our principal  ever showed any Garmanophobia to me.   And
neither man ever mentioned a word about the  Holocaust - and this was
back in the days when the societal standard was  "shove it down the
Germans' throats every chance you get".     But today,  the emphasis is
on the  Holocaust as a general example  of what prejudice carried to an
extreme can do - prejudice done by ANY antionality/ethnic  group against 
ANY other nationality/ethnic group.

Although I have concentrated most of my efforts into the social aspects
and the psychological aspects of this issue to the expense of the
historical aspects, I still feel confident to tell you, as one
Revisionist to another, that the Holocaust is NOT "a gigantic hoax".
The "standard historical version" is a MIXTURE of truth, deliberate
fabrications (probably by Allied Military powers,  NOT the "Zionists"),
honest mistakes, hidden truths that need to be drawn out or unpacked
bu careful study and rational discussion, personal  testimony whose
emotional and hearsay and  direct-observation aspects  are still poorly 
separated but CAN be separated by careful and patient work. 

We have been  using the word "hoax" for years, myself included.    I did
not think there to be anything wrong with the word or anything special
about it either.   Only in the past year have I realized that the use of
that word is a big mistake on our part.   One reason is that it sends a
false message to the other side that have no care or concern connected
with Hitlers extreme anti-Semitic policiet and programs.   This is 
ONE of the  psychological reasons why anti-Semitism is assumed in us,
even "when all [we] did was ask questions about the Six Million."  

It is not designed "as a club to beat Christians over the head with".
The "Christian aspect" among "standard version" people is a rather
recent development.    What Rosemary Reuther of Northwestern University,
Father  Pavlikowski of  ????, and others are teaching about the role of 
centuries of official Christian and Church teachings against the Jews 
in making fertile ground for Hitlers extreme anti-Semitic policies and
programs  was NOT being said in the  Fourties, Fifties., and much of
the Sixties.    What they are studying and teaching needs to be studied
and taught. 


The factors that led to the establishment of the State of Israel are 
complex.    A wide variety of Zionist individuals and organizations 
nd movements ahd been doing a wide variety of things for quite a long
time before the Third Reich to try to establish a Jewish homeland, 
presence, or state in Palestine.   The early Zionists were a diverse 
mixture nof ideologies and outlooks.    Some were culteral, some were
religious. some were secular., some right-wing (such such a movement 
to  which Menachm Begin and Yitzak Ahamir belonged to called "the
Revisionists" - no kidding - that is REALLY what they were called !!!),
some left-wing.     

During Third Reich times itself, the many and splintered  Zionist
organizsations were too busy trying to get Palestine ready for Jewish
stettlement after the Great HItler Pogrom will finally be over to 
be running around Europe concocting a giagantic hoax.    Germanophobia
associalted with  the war hysterial was the main cause of  errors being
insurted into the "standard" Holocaust record, not some grand "Zionist
Conspiracy".    Are you  German, John?   If so, then maybe you can
relate to the following anologies.   "The bombing of Dresden and all
the other fabrications of alleged British terror bombing of German
civilians in other citeies, plus the ludicrous Teutonistisc tales
of holocausts of firestorms created by those alleged "bombing raids"
is nothing but a gigantic hoax. 
There is not a shred of scientific  or forensic evidence that such
firestorms really occured or even COULD have occured.    Therefore
the "bombings" and associated Tall Teutonistic Tales are nothing
but a gigantic hoax concoccted by the Teutonists just to drum up
post-War sympathy from the Western Powers in order to extort and
guilt-wretch the Marshall Plan from them.     The Marshall plan
was all "planned" out by the Teutonists long before its nominal
namesake was even born."     How does THAT make you feel , JOhn ???
If it shocks, insults, saddens, grieves, and/or enrages you, then that
is exactly how you are making the Jews feel with your assurtion that
the Holocaust is nothing but a gigantic Zionist hoax planned beforehand
(before WWII) with the sole intention of drumming up sympathy in order
to guilt-wretch  a never-ending flow of dollars and Marks from the
Western world to Israel. 

As for your characterizing the current State of Israel as "thuggish"
"racist", persecuting Arabs, etc, do you mean that the State of Israel
is by its very nature inherently racist, thuggish,  etc, or are
you criticizing the specific policies of the ruling party or coalition
of parties at a certain times in Israel's history ????    I believe in
Israel's right to exist within  secure boundaries  and want peace to come
to the entire Mid East region.     I am also critical fo some of the
policies of the current right-wing Shamir-led coalition, but they are
beyond the scope of this newsgroup.

Let me close with one final analogy, but this one is not msde up.
It is a part of my daily life here at the University of Pittsburgh,
where I am officially a Math major until I can offically transfer
into the Electrical  Engineering Department.    I comsider the 
Pitt EE Dept my "home", follow ist curriculum, know a lot of its
people, and do things  within it.     The following real-life
anlogy is designed to relate to the German-Jewish-Arab issues that
you and I have delt with in this article.

Here goes.   Our Department Chair is Arab and so  are at least two
more of our professors.    There are many Arabs among our grad students 
as well.     At three of our professors are Jewish, along with some of
grad students and an even greater percentage of the undergrads. 
And naturally there are many, many Germans in our Department.
Guess what.    We get along.


Cecelia Mu"ller <muller+Apitt.edu>



    >>>>>>>>>     Ich komme aus dem Lande Fessendens.    <<<<<<<<      
                         

                                 und
                                     
                          
    >>>>>>>>>            Quaecumque sunt vera            <<<<<<<< 
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