From: pmm7@ellis.uchicago.edu (peggy boucher murphy (you had to ask?))
Subject: Re: using the bible to advance bigotry
Reply-To: pmm7@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 00:28:42 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.174811.3015@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> wgb3@pyuxf.uucp (25336-buoni) writes:
>
>Actually, I am not.  But I am the authority over my children, or are you 
>suggesting that the state step in and teach me the TRUE way?

the state already does.  the state has the power to take your
children away from you if you neglect or abuse them.  the state
requires that they be educated, and since it is required, the
state provides education to *all* citizens.  if you do not 
like the education that the state provides (which, since it is
for *all* citizens,*must* be inclusive and is gradually getting
more so in many ways), you are free to provide your children
with another, provided it meets minimum state standards.  

the age where children were the property of their parents 
is long gone.  

someone else said:  

>>It's intolerant people like Mr. Buoni that caused the death of homosexuals
>>like Alan Turing.  I suggest you read about how he died, Mr. Buoni--
>>it might open your eyes about the kinds of the things that homosexuals
>>go through.

*do* you know anything about the death of alan turing?  
by turning the topic back to jesus and *your* faith (which
you want us all to respect to our own detriment), you neatly 
avoided that question.  i ask it again.  do you know how 
and why alan turin, father of computers, a brilliant man
and a homosexual, died?

>And it was hateful people like you that caused the death of my Lord.  I 
>suggest you read about how he died Mr. "I hate any and all intolerant, 
>closed minded, ignorant, basterds who don't think like me", it might open
>your eyes to a world so wonderful that you won't have to hate anymore.

what makes you think people who don't agree with you haven't
read the bible?  it *is* the predominant religion, you know.  
most of us were raised in it.  

as for the death of jesus christ, it was brought about 
directly by the romans, who were afraid of his potential
political power, and killed him rather routinely, as they
killed many other revolutionaries, by crucifixion.  a horrible
way to die, no doubt. 

and indirectly by (self)-righteous, pious, law-abiding 
(especially god's law!) good citizens who were trying to 
protect the foolish populace from the power of words that 
challenged traditional beliefs.  

*jesus* hung out with sinners, lepers, tax collecters, 
prostitutes, the moral dregs of his society in his day.  
he saved his wrath for the hypocrites, too.  

the only proscriptions against homosexuality in the bible 
are in the pauline texts (and st. paul was quite an interesting
fellow, opposed to all sorts of things including all sex 
{eeewwwww} and any form of women's liberation), and the old
testament, which is hardly even consistent within itself,
let alone with anything jesus himself taught. 

and i am basing my understanding of jesus' teachings on
the only two historically valid gospels, mark and (marginally)
matthew.  

yup, you guessed it, i went to christian schools for most of 
my life (including college) and took a lot of history of the 
bible, history of christianity, etc kind of classes. you should
too.  

>I'll keep you in my prayers.

sure, i'll take all the help i can get.  and i'll keep you 
mine. 

peg

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