From: avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Koenigsberg/Kaliningrad
Date: 3 Sep 1992 14:47:28 -0400
Organization: Berkeley Software Design
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net


Well, historical claims are double-edged things.
Shouldn't we consider returning Finland to Russia instead?

Seriously, Finland's government is better than its citizens in
understanding that territorial claims in the modern world will
practically inevitably lead to bloodshed. Don't you consider
the experience of Yugoslavia, Abkhazia, Karabakh, South Ossetia,
Gaza Strip, Penjab et al sufficient enough to never make the
same mistake again? It's quite wise of Yeltsin to discourage
any such attempts for the sake of claimant's well-being.
Russia is a big country and has more agressive nationalists
than entire Finland's population, though, God the witness, Russians
are less nationalistic than any European nation. Nationalism
is an earmark of small nations feeling vulnerable facing
seemingly imminent dissolution in an overwhelmingly big nation.
Not the case with Russians who are willingly blending with other
nationalities having no fear of ethnical dissolution. To find
a "pure" Russian is far more difficult task than to find a
"pure" ex-Soviet Jew or Finn or (name YF small ethnic group here).
Anyway, don't wake the sleeping bear. It's bigger than you can
imagine.

In article <1992Sep3.094059.13701@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>I am not at all interested in America, it is not interesting like Russia.

Ah, russophobic blues. Why didn't you emigrate to Russia?

>Now the russians are pouring into the American Wonderland,
>are they not.

First, don't confuse Russians and ex-Soviet Jews. Russians in America
are real active dissidents who were expelled against their will or
descendants of the first-wave refugees (who basically had the
choice between death sentence and emigration, unlike later emigrants)
or professionals who didn't give up their Russian citizenship
and decided to work for a US company for professional reasons.
As a rule, ethnic Russians do not have relatives in US and it's nearly
impossible for them to get a refugee status.

>That is why
>I am deeply concerned that you will loose your russian roots in America. 

Jews aren't real minority in US.

>How the russians keep russian culture alive in America?

Well, concerning Russians -- my wife got baptised here in US (her
God father is count Tolstoy -- no less!). At least, the Russian
Orthodox Church is well alive here. There are numerous Russian
communities in Alaska (which was a Russian province before it was
leased to America and not returned to the Bol'sheviks).

>The task can be very difficult compared to Estonia which
>now is so HORRIBLE place for the russians.

I guess it's not much better for Estonians. Fascist government
separating citizens by blood will eventually start seprating them
by political attitudes. Hitler's example is well-known.

>Sometimes I am about bursting
>into the tears when reading all those hardships our neighbours the russian
>mates/excomrades face in Estonia & Baltic states.

You'd better think of the future of a small country which has
no natural resources or high-technology and is going to aggravate
the neighbor country (which basically is their only reliable
market and source of supplies) by their mindless ethnic policy.

>If once you cannot clear out the whole mess in Motherland you should
>remember after tasting american help that you need in fact a Finn
>to solve out the mess as a consultant sooner or later.

C'mon. Do you really think the American aid makes any real difference
for Russia? The West is simply unable to provide relevant amount of
aid. Moreover, there is strong opposition in Russia to getting any
aid at all. The real purpose of the loans is to get Western economy
more involved in operations in Russian markets and therefore stimulate
closer intergration of the closed-loop ex-Soviet economy with the
world economy.

As for Finns -- your example seems to support the popular in Russia
opinion of Finns being, well, dumb. "Chukhna" is the word.
 
>The thankfulness will be immense in Moscow when someone notices that there
>is at least one peace of the Empire's border where people are
>not whining more land and lebensraum.

Or to get in the neighbor's pockets (which is essentially the same).

>BTW, I red that (Source World Almanac) there is 101 mill. russian
>speakers in Europe.  On a second place there is the german speakers and
>they were 92 millions. 

Russians were involved in trading with Europe for hundreds of years.
I don't find it surprising that French was a household language
of Russian aristocrathy and there is a rather big population of
ethnic Germans in Russia.

>(Redy to consult)

What? Moya tvoya ne ponimaiy.

--vadim