From: spettigr@engin.umich.edu (Scott C Pettigrew)
Subject: Re: HAM Friend harassed by police because of HAM equiptment
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 23:57:54 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: usa

In article <BuCEn9.7Lr@ais.org> tim@ais.org (Tim Tyler) writes:
>In article <1992Sep9.195719.21221@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> k9jma@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (edwin.m.schaefer) writes:
>>
>>I believe that most of the advice thus far given on the subject of what to
>>do in interactions with police may lead to dangerous consequences.
>>I believe the proper course of action in interactions with police is:
>>
>>0. Always _obey whatever orders the police give_; submit quietly.
>>1. Always, no matter how provoked, be calm, respectful and polite.
>>2. Answer all questions responsively but avoid giving more information than
>>you have to; don't amplify a response _until_ asked directly.
>>3. Do not attempt to assert your "rights" to an armed policeman. The Judge and
>>Jury will determine later what law was violated; the police only bring cases
>>to the court. The court decides the law - not the police.
>>5. Do not antagonize police by ostentatiously noting names, badge numbers, etc.
>>or implying later reprisals.
>>6. Don't get mad - and forget the idea that you can get even.
>    
>    The above advice seems to be common sense to me, & I don't recall
>reading any responses which seemed to be anathema to the above.  In regards
>to #6, I don't recall anyone stating anything that would be the equivalent
>of "getting even" with the police.
>
>>I've appended the original article and several of the followups with my
>>comments included.
>>
>>Just another point of view...  73 de Ed K9JMA
>>=============================================================================
>>>Because of this, my friend was "printed up."  We're not even sure exactly what
>>>that means.  But whatever it was, the whole thing seemed very unfair.
>>
>>That means your friend is now on the list of "usual suspects" that the police
>>will consider probably involved in some classes of crimes. He is now a
>>"known troublemaker". Fair is the event we have once a year at the fairgrounds
>>and isn't related in any way to police.
>>
>>
>>>One last question...  My friend was right and they were wrong...correct?
>>
>>No, the cop is _always, by law, right_.
>>=======================================================================
>>>   Your friend needs to go to that police department during the day & ask to
>>>speak to a command officer (Sgt., Lt., Captain, etc.) about the incident. If
>>>you provide him with the date & time of the incident, he/she ought to be
>>>able to look at the report or 'dispatch card' & see the officer's version.
>>>     Ask the command officer for the # of the city ordinance which prohibits
>>>the use of ham radio (and/or scanners).
>>> 
>>>  Most likely, there isn't one.  Tell the command oficer that you think
>>>Officer ________ acted very unprofessionally and in your opinion, discredits
>>>the whole police force in that city.  I suppose for good measure you could
>>>briefly mention ham radio public service stuff like ARES, RACES, & Skywarn
>>>at this point.
>>>   Tell him/her that you were so irritated that you had planned on going to
>>>the media with this 'ham radio harassment' story, but that since the command
>>>officer seemed so sincere (heh...), you'll hold back on that, & settle for a
>>>note from the officer in question stating that he was made aware of the
>>>legality of amateur radio/scanners in his venue.
>>
>>Very dangerous advice. Talking to cops in a _threatening manner_ like this
>>will get you lots more of the treatment you don't like...and _they_ have 
>>clubs and guns as well as radios. "You _can't_ fight city hall."
>>
>    OK, I don't think I need to quote you any more.  I don't know what sort
>of nasty experience you've had with a police officer or department, but I
>think you are rather paranoid & have some sort of notion that the police are
>gestapo who can & will do as they please without checks & balances, & that
>the only escape we civillians have is to stay out of their way.  
> 
>   I'm not a cop, but I have worked alongside them as well as in command
>positions above & below them.  It is true that they are (naturally) suspect
>of people that walk in off the street to talk to them, but that comes with
>the job.  If you don't act like a jerk or a lawyer, or tell them you pay
>their salaries, etc. they'll listen to you.  These days of 'community
>oriented policing,' they are very receptive to comments & even criticism,
>especially since it might avert a lawsuit in the future.   They don't have
>the time or the resources to try & maintain some sort of database on every
>person who disagrees with them, either.
> 
>   "Printed up" probably just means that the officer ran his name & plate
>thru the databases to make sure he wasn't wanted.  That's a routine
>procedure, once the officer has made the stop.  A brief report, perhaps just
>a paragraph *might* have been written, which will just state that subject
>_____, who was driving ______ was stopped at time/location for _____, & that
>he had radio equipment in the vehicle.
> 
>   This is a routine procedure that is carried out each time an officer is
>dispatched to a scene or runs a plate/ID.
>
>    If you live in a town with a population of about 3, perhaps the police
>will have time to "harass" each person that they've encountered in the past.
>In reality, there are too many serious criminals that the police have to
>contend with.
>
>
>-- 
> Tim Tyler   Internet: tim@ais.org  MCI Mail: 442-5735  C$erve: 72571,1005
>P.O. Box 443     Packet: KA8VIR @KA8UNZ.#SEMI.MI.USA.NA
>Ypsilanti MI
>48197-0443                  PADI, USPA, AFCEA, INEOA, P226, VFR700, etc.

That's probably true enough...but remember:
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean you're NOT being followed!

Scott


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