HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies, & Statistics (was Re: The Monthly Cecil Fielder Thread
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 21:16:05 GMT

In article <10010693@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella) writes:
>
>This doesn't change the fact that first base is a relatively
>easy/unimportant position; Fryman would still get brownie points were
>he really an above average fielder.  His 1991 DA would suggest
>otherwise, however - a rather Lansfordian .571 at third in 1991.

Mike Fester believes he plays a better shortstop.  Not impossible, as
the positions require different skills...  He also *seems* to hit
better when playing shortstop.  (Though that could be a statistical
fluke.)

>He may still get bonus points for being a more
>significant plus offensively compared to others at his position; I don't have
>the data on that.  I'd suspect both are moderately above average in that
>department.

Hardly!  Going by OPS, Fielder is 30 points above the average AL 1B.
Fryman is *110* points above the average shortstop, despite having a
lower OPS than Fielder.  There's a 100 point OPS difference between
the average 1B and the average SS.

>Personally, I'm not inclined to value Travis Fryman above Cecil
>Fielder based on the data I do have.

In "real life", I'd take Fryman first in an instant.  Good-hitting
*YOUNG* shortstops are a valuable commodity.  First basemen are easier
to find.  HoJo (despite his awful D) was a significant part of the
powerhouse Mets offenses in the late 80's.  He contributed as much (or
more) over the average shortstop as Strawberry did over the average
RF!

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: plusrich@wixer.cactus.org (+Rich)
Subject: Re: Clemins,Scraldi,Swindel, and Owen
Organization: Center for Weird Studies
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 13:47:27 GMT

ehlerswm@hackney.ecn.purdue.edu (William Mark Ehlers) writes:

+> I know I probably butchered the spellings of their names, but I have a question
+> about these four former Texas Longhorns.  Did they all play on the same team at
+> one time during their respective careers at Texas.  If not which of these four
+> played together at Texas.  Thanks in advance.
+> 

Spike Owen played either three or four years, starting as a freshman,
probably from 1978-1981.

Calvin Schiraldi & Roger Clemens were teammates on the national
championship team in 1983 when they were both juniors.  They played
from 1981-1983 so perhaps they did overlap with Spike.

Greg Swindell started as a freshman, playing from 1984-1986.

From memory, so beware.
-- 
Richard Everett -- plusrich@wixer.cactus.org -- Austin, TX
-----------------------------------------------------------
The shortest distance between two points is a great circle.
From: yajima@nttcom.ntt.jp (YAJIMA Hiroshi)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,soc.culture.japan,fj.rec.baseball
Subject: Japan Central League
Date: 7 Sep 92 02:14:47 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: NTT Network Information Systems Labs. Musashino, Tokyo


 Japan Central League Standing ( Through games on Sunday September 6th)

                         W   L   T   Pct.   GB
Yakult Swallows         58  48   0  .547    --
Yomiuri Giants          60  51   0  .541    0.5
Hanshin Tigers          56  51   1  .523    2.5
Hiroshima Carp          55  53   0  .509    4.0
Taiyo Whales            52  59   1  .468    8.5
Chunichi Dragons        45  64   0  .413   14.5

--------
 The stuation has become serious. Yakult Swallows lost two games straight.
 Yakult Swallows lost the game to Taiyo Whales by a score of 2 to 1 Sunday
night at Yokohama Stadium.
 With the loss, Yakult Swallows lead over the second place hateful Yomiuri
Giants was cut to a half game.
 What has come over the Yakult Swallows these days ?

 --- Hiroshi
--

    |  / __  __/ __  __/ Hiroshi Yajima, 
  / | /     /       /    NTT Network Information Syatems Laboratories,
_/  _/    _/      _/     9 - 11 Midori-Cho 3-Chome Musashino-Shi,
                         Tokyo, 180 Japan,  E-MAIL: yajima@nttcom.ntt.jp
                         TEL: +81 422-59-4256	 FAX: +81 422-59-4254

                         
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: erics@sco.COM (eric smith)
Subject: Re: Changed allegiance (Was: Say it's so! Baseball in Tampa Bay!!!)
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 18:31:15 GMT


barrym@informix.com (Barry Mednick) writes:

>mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella) writes:

>>Seriously, it's been what, four years since these rumblings started?  The point
>>is, it was not all-of-a-sudden and out-of-the-blue.

>It's been 8 years since Lurie asked for a new ballpark.  Then Mayor Feinstein's
>first reaction was to investigate modifying Candlestick.  Then Giants were
>on their way to Toronto when Lurie bought the team in 1976.  In 1984, he 
>pronounced Candlestick unacceptable.  You might say that Lurie kept the
>Giants in California for 16 years before realizing that he was never going
>to get a decent ballpark.

Yes, but he blew his real chance to keep the team in the area. A few years
ago he had a real opportunity to move the team to San Jose and get a new
ballpark but he snubbed the city. By the time he realized San Jose was
his only hope the city was in a recession and still paying for the yet
uncompleted San Jose Sharks arena and the stadium proposal lost. Lurie's
biggest mistake was not realizing soon enough that San Francisco would
never build him a new ballpark.

-----
Eric Smith
erics@sco.com
erics@infoserv.com
CI$: 70262,3610

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Fielder
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 18:43:02 GMT

In article <11SEP199214292038@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> hasch@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Bruce M Hasch) writes:
>
>I think that if we're talking about a one-year thing, I'd take Cecil
>over Olerud.  Olerud is one of the few guys in the league who is as
>immobile as Cecil, so he loses any defensive/baserunning advantage,
>and all other factors being equal, I'd probably be willing to trade
>the OBP for a higher SLG.

Olerud actually has the higher SLG this year.  He doesn't have as many
HR, but he has 6 more doubles, 60 points more of BA, and 115 fewer AB.
For better or worse, Olerud has seen no more PT than Maldonado this
year.  (Actually, Maldonado has done amazingly well!)

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Prize Money for Playoffs, WS?
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:10:52 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <wall-110992102053@elvis.swarthmore.edu> wall@cc.swarthmore.edu (Matthew Wall) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.192750.26602@sco.com>, jcohen@sco.COM (Jon Cohen)
>wrote:
 
 
 
>> Does anyone know if MLB still gives special bonus money
>> to all players on teams that come in second, win their
>> divisions, win the playoffs, win the world series?
 
>> What are the prizes, and how much do the players get?

>I'm not sure of the figures, but I think the pay-offs still go down to 3rd
>place 

Yesterday, the Padres "beat" the Dodgers 3-1 to move into second
place.  The announcers said that each member of the third place
team gets $3,000 and each member of the second place team gets
$10,000.  The members of the first place team get a split of 
playoff money depending on whether they win the LCS and if
so whether they win the WS.  So, unless the Braves collapse
(or Houston has a big winning streak), the Padres & Reds
are battling over $7,000 checks.  Not much compared
to salaries, but it'll buy a nice vacation or a down payment
on a set of tires for your Ferrari.

-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: The Monthly Cecil Fielder Thread
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:32:02 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.032105.10942@panix.com> spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira) writes:
>In <1992Sep4.174435.3715@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>
>>>We have reached agreement!  The point of disagreement is that you 
>>>contend that Fielder is substantially responsible for the runs, and
>>>thf (with lots of agreement by daves and dave-wanna-bes) says
>>>that Tettleton, Fryman, Phillips and Whitaker on the whole contributed
>>		 ^^^^^^
>>>more.  Fielder just got more of the accounting entries called RBIs.
>
>>How did a guy with lower OBP *AND* lower SLG contribute MORE to his team's 
>>offense? In the BTW category, in 1990, Fielder had the highest SLG and OBP
>>on the team. In '91, he had the highest SLG. This year, he STILL has the highest
>>SLG of anyone who hasn't missed more than ~30 games (as of Aug 30).
>
>Mike, you're missing an important distinction here:
>
>1) Over the past year and 3/4, Cecil Fielder has produced more offense
>than Travis Fryman.
>
>2) Over the past year and 3/4, Travis Fryman has been a more valuable
>offensive player.  He has contributed more though he has produced less.
 		    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'm sure you don't really mean this.

>The key to the difference in contributions is that the difference between
>Fryman and a replacement level shortstop/third baseman is larger than the
>difference between Fielder and a replacement level first baseman.

No, YOU miss the point. The OFFENSE does NOT care what position those hits
come from. NOBODY bats as a 2nd baseman, or catcher, or whatever. The hits,
outs, doubles, runs, stolen bases, etc, are INDEPENDENT of defensive postion.
Unless, of course, you are aware of some new rule that has eluded the rest of
us. You MAY choose to say that a shortstop with a certain amount of hitting
is more valuable than a first baseman with a certain amount more, to his team.
However, you may not say he is a better offensive player. See Bill James if
this point needs further clarification.

As for the "replacement level" stuff, that's only relevant if you have such a
player ready to play. This is not always the case. Ask the Red Sox.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - I'm only doing what the little voices tell me to do. 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.stanford.edu (Nelson Lu)
Subject: RC/27 for 1Bs
Originator: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 01:58:53 GMT

NATIONAL LEAGUE
Fred McGriff, San Diego		9.13
John Kruk, Philadelphia		8.76
Will Clark, San Francisco	7.36
Mark Grace, Chicago		7.16
Hal Morris, Cincinnati		6.06
Sid Bream, Atlanta		5.88
NL AVERAGE			5.34
Jeff Bagwell, Houston		5.30
Eddie Murray, Los Angeles	5.01
Brian Hunter, Atlanta		4.96
Eric Karros, Los Angeles	4.93	; ROY?  ROY?
Orlando Merced, Pittsburgh	4.36
Tim Wallach, Montreal		3.61
Andres Galarraga, St. Louis	3.09

AMERICAN LEAGUE
Frank Thomas, Chicago		10.72
Mark McGwire, Oakland		9.23
John Olerud, Toronto		7.51
Randy Milligan, Baltimore	6.32
Paul Sorrento, Cleveland	6.30
Kent Hrbek, Minnesota		5.92
Cecil Fielder, Detroit		5.64
AL AVERAGE			5.52
Don Mattingly, New York		5.44
Rafael Palmeiro, Texas		5.11
Wally Joyner, Kansas City	4.98
Mo Vaughn, Boston		4.73
Tino Martinez, Seattle		4.62
Franklin Stubbs, Milwaukee	3.81
Lee Stevens, California		3.67
Pete O'Brien, Seattle		3.67	; Stevens is finally out of the cellar!

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: st1ge@Rosie.UH.EDU (Edward Hui)
Subject: Re: Will Clark?
Reply-To: st1ge@Rosie.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 05:06:15 GMT

In article <92258.135734U31764@uicvm.uic.edu>, STEVE ROMAN <U31764@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>Can anyone tell me why Will's been out of the lineup lately?  Except
>for a late-inning pinch hit appearance yesterday, he's been conspicu-
>ously absent the last few days.  Is he hurt?
>
   He was hurt last Wednesday while colliding with the Astros catcher
Scott Servias at home plate.

>Steve
>u31764@uicvm


Edward Hui
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: GET OFF THE BANDWAGON!
Date: 8 Sep 92 17:58:27 GMT
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article <1992Sep8.165938.12009@newsgate.sps.mot.com> jeffh@pisces.sps.mot.com (Jeff Heilner) writes:
>If your not jumping ship, and the rest of you response seems to indicate  
>you are not, then why did you even respond to my post? You seem to be a  
>long time A's fan, I don't think my original posting even applied to you.


Well my post specifically said that although I was very upset by the
trade, I still was rooting for the A's, I just wouldn't get season
tickets anymore, and you specifically accused me of both jumping on the
band wagon, and then abandoning ship, neither of which is true. what I'm
guilty of appears to be the same as what Gary's response to you indicates
he is guilty of, questionng the direction the A's are taking with this
trade.

If the A's blow this lead and don't make the playoffs this year, nobody
will be more upset than me(except maybe Sandy Alderson who would likely
lose his job over it), but it might take something of that magnitude
to teach Sandy that he's abandoning what got him here. The A's made
3 world series on the strength of a solid farms system. Canseco, McGwire
Weiss, 3 ROY's in a row, but Alderson is abandoning this approach. He
got rid of Felix Jose, Chiamparino(who won the other day for Texas after
missing a long time with arm problems) and now he's gotten rid of Canseco.
He continually brings in older players instead of trusting the farm system,
yet the farm system keeps bailing him out when the old guys break down.
That won't continue for long, because the system isn't going to be
strong enough.

One of the things that is now coming out is that Alderson was less than
truthful in stating Canseco's trade came about very late in the going.
USA Today says that the A's talked to Boston about Brunansky, VIola
and Greg Harris, but then went to Texas(who had offered Sierra straight
up in spring training) to get a better deal. It appears the A's DID 
actively try to unload Jose, and not that they started out looking at
Witt and expanded the deal(which has been Alderson's public statement).
Now both sides are taking shots at each other, and La Russa is saying 
that after the season, he will publicly respond to Jose's accusations
against the A's organization.

In other words, it sounds like the real reasons for the trade are now
surfacing, and pitching and economics are not at the top of the list.




Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
The amount of time spent brushing and flossing your teeth is inversely
proportional to how recent your last dental appointment was.
********************************************************************************
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee")
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: baseball/sport cards
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:04:18 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <92259.111109KAP118@psuvm.psu.edu> Kevin Polcovich <KAP118@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>If anyone is looking for any sort of card of a player in any sport,
>especially the hot ones:Ripkin, Sheffield, Guzman-let me know.
                         ^^^^^^

May I assume it's time for people to start hiding under chairs?

(Who was that?  Harold?  David?  Anyone?)


-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) *  kbos@carina.unm.edu * Make outs, not walks!
Keeper of the R.S.BB FAQ, and Junior Stathead {tm} * Yay!  Gary Blickhan's back!
Be kind...don't disillusion the RBI-lovers. * Net.Agent, "Doublin" David Rossing
Not as much of a clubhouse leader as Alfredo Griffin, but better than nothing...
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: whitmore@iastate.edu (Kurt D Whitmore)
Subject: Diameter of a regulation baseball
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 21:12:39 GMT

We were assigned a "body moving in a fluid problem" in one of our chem e. 
classes. And the body happens to be a base ball. I was wondering what
the diameter of a regulation baseball was so I can get this problem finished.

If you interested, the question was if a baseball leaves the pitchers hand
at 90 miles per hour, what is it's speed when crossing home plate, in
chicago (@ 1 ATM & 60 F) and denver (@ 5500 ft +sea level).


Thanks!


Kurt
From: f67700241@violet.ccit.arizona.edu (Greg Franklin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Fay Vincent resigns!
Date: 7 Sep 92 20:47:05 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona
Nntp-Posting-User: f67700241

Fay Vincent has just resigned as commissioner of baseball.

So much for a man who said he would fight for what he thought was right
all the way to the Supreme Court....

-- 
Greg "Mockingbird" Franklin      Interviewer: "Sir, how do you spell relief?"
f67700241@ccit.arizona.edu               Dan: "R-O-L-A-I-D-S-E."

"[George Bush is] the most ruthless white man in the history of the planet."
	-- Richard Ben Cramer, author of _What It Takes_
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: J. Gonzales All-time HR King
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 00:25:42 GMT

In article <BuC3Ly.IFA@news.cso.uiuc.edu> mab50312@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark A. Blickhan) writes:
>
>Those numbers are very incorrect because Gonzalez won't walk JUST 50 time
>per year.  Like McGwire and F.Thomas (not Gorman), the pitchers would put
>him on base.  However,  Gonzalez might have too much support batting 
>behind him now,  but who will in the future cannot be determined.

Gonzalez does not have the patience of McGwire and Thomas.  If the ability
to walk is based on power, then why do guys like Brett Butler and Tommy Herr
draw walks, and why don't guys like Cecil Fielder and Kirby Puckett?

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thornley@micro.cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley)
Subject: Re: Bucs call ups
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:45:49 GMT

In article <Meh0dpa00WB58KXmdM@andrew.cmu.edu> Amit Likhyani <al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Kevin Young, Albert Martin, William Pennyfeather, and Tom Prince were called
>up now that Buffalo's season is over.

I was on vacation and saw the game the Bisons clinched the division.  Penny-
feather didn't impress me in the field; looked like his motto was "It's not
a fly ball, it's an adventure!"  Young looked *real* good, and probably
better than anybody Pittsburgh has at third since the Buechele trade.  I
was going to compute some MLEs (they gave me a nice stat sheet when I bought
my program) but haven't yet.

David Thornley
ObSnideComment:  Driving down Queen Elizabeth's Way from Pilot Field to
Skydome, we passed Lundy's Lane.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: More about Sanders/Alou/Karros
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:33:49 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.003545.19604@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>This is what I get for the three of them, then, using my method:
>
>Sanders:	value as CF:	1.04
>		value as LF:	0.48
>		total:		1.52
>
>Karros:		value as 1B:	0.48
>		total:		0.48
>
>Alou:		value as LF:	0.97
>		value as RF:	0.11
>		value as CF:	0.04
>		total:		1.12
>
>I rest my case for the moment, but reserve the right to cross-examine any
>witnesses. :-)

Alou is a platoon player. Sanders has done quite a bit of that himself.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - I'm only doing what the little voices tell me to do. 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.stanford.edu (Nelson Lu)
Subject: RC/27 for RFs
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 22:28:53 GMT

NATIONAL LEAGUE
Larry Walker, Montreal		6.46
Felix Jose, St. Louis		6.24
Bobby Bonilla, New York		6.18
Tony Gwynn, San Diego		6.14
Paul O'Neill, Cincinnati	5.76
David Justice, Atlanta		5.67
Andre Dawson, Chicago		5.32
NL AVERAGE			4.97
Willie McGee, San Francisco	4.77
Wes Chamberlain, Philadelphia	4.54
Eric Anthony, Houston		4.38

AMERICAN LEAGUE
Danny Tartabull, New York	8.08
Tom Brunansky, Boston		7.15
Rob Deer, Detroit		6.11
Joe Carter, Toronto		5.82
Daryl Hamilton, Milwaukee	5.74
Joe Orsulak, Baltimore		5.65
Dante Bichette, Milwaukee	5.59
Jose Canseco, Texas		5.50
Ruben Sierra, Oakland		5.49
Mark Whiten, Cleveland		5.13
AL AVERAGE			4.91
Jay Buhner, Seattle		4.89
Pedro Munoz, Minnesota		4.72
Phil Plantier, Boston		4.28
Jim Eisenreich, Kansas City	3.86
Von Hayes, California		3.71
Dan Pasqua, Chicago		3.68
Gary Thurman, Kansas City	3.12

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Amazing Walk Total
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:12:33 GMT
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology


In article <1427@swuts.sbc.com> cpg4160@swuts.sbc.com (Dan McCue) writes:
> In article <1992Sep9.182541.20103@news.iastate.edu> sckelm@iastate.edu  
(Steven C Kelm) writes:
> >This is one of the most amazing things I've seen this year.
> >
> >Randy Johnson   172 innings ..... 124 BB !!!
> 
> And at the other end of the spectrum:
> 
> Bob Tewksbury:  213 IP, 16 W, 17 BB !!!  (including his 7 IP on Sunday,
>                                           Sept. 13 against the Cubs)
> 
> While this is not a record, I read something in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch
> about Tewks trying to become the third pitcher in history to have as many
> or more wins than walks in a season (minimum 10 decisions, I believe).
> Would someone who saw that article or has easy access to those stats please
> correct or clarify?

Well, limiting ourselves to 20th century pitchers with 10 or more wins 
(this may miss some 5-5 picher somewhere) the Franklin gives
                        W BB
Dick Hall         1970 10  6
Deacon Phillippe  1910 14  9
Christy Mathewson 1913 25 21
Slin Sallee       1919 21 20
Christ Mathewson  1914 24 23
Dick Hall         1965 11 11
there are several 19th century pitchers 

john rickert
rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu