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Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 12:18:20 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2899
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2899

                           Friday, August 28, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******


                              Phantom Limb Pain
                               Tens units, etc
                                   cancer
                                    TENS
                            Re: General Interest
                            Re: General Interest
                                Pain.... not!
                               Tens units, etc
                                    PAIN
                               Tens units, etc


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Subject: Phantom Limb Pain
From: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org (Arthur Saus)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:376/72.160 - Windows of the Worl, Columbia SC


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Hello Shari!

14 Aug 92, Shari Messner writes to Arthur Saus:

 SM> His surgeon feels that since
 SM> there really isn't any pain except for in his head, he doesn't want to
 SM> give him anything as he *might become addicted*.  I am also hoping that
 SM> when the weather settles down and the humidity goes away as it usually
 SM> does in another month or so at the most, that that will help him.  Of
 SM> course, time will tell.

The drugs to which he "might become addicted" are good to treat
acute pain, but will not help with chronic pain.  The surgeon is
making a wise choice by refusing to prescribe them.  Too often, the
mistake is made by very well-meaning physicians to prescribe these
drugs, and a patient winds up with an addiction problem as well as
the chronic pain problem which is not treated appropriately with
these addicting drugs.

There are non-addiction drugs which will help chronic pain problems
such as phantom limb pain.  There are also other non-drug
approaches which can be used to help minimize the pain and its
effects on someone's life.  These approaches are what you should
find in a pain clinic.  Again, I hope this is the approach your
friend will take to help with this phantom limb pain problem,
instead of just finding a "more cooperative physician" who will
prescribe narcotics or other potentially addictive drugs to treat
his pain.

Arthur

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Subject: Tens units, etc
From: Bob.Officer@f408.n208.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Officer)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:208/408 - The Beemer Board, Manteca CA


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

I guess I would like to see comment from those of us that use tens
units. I am interested in what type, size and makeup of the various
pads we use and what we like about the different types and sizes. I
am curious becuase I have fornd some work "better" or longer that
others.

I hope this is making sense.

Bob Officer
===
 * SLMR 2.1a * "It's a lot like nothing, only more so..."

--
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Internet: Bob.Officer@f408.n208.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: cancer
From: Debra.Devault@f11.n232.z1.fidonet.org (Debra Devault)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:232/11 - BearWhiz BBS, Peoria IL


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Hi.I joined this echo in hopes of getting info and possibly support.I'm on
the other side of the situation.My mother has lieukemia and she has about 2
years to live.She's on cytoxin right now,they've got her on it for life.Just
recently they took her off the meds that take away the pain.I couldn't bear
with it.There's got to be something else she can get for the pain.It's
really hard watching your own mother die.I remember how I felt when my
husbands mother died.It keeps getting worse.The hardest part is I have to be
her strength and take care of her,who takes care of me?Well at least I'm
strong in front of her.
   There is a BBS # I need to find.It's for the National Library of
Medicine.

--
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Internet: Debra.Devault@f11.n232.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: TENS
From: Michael.Rooney@f737.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Michael Rooney)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:106/737 - AirBoat OnLine, Houston TX


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

WB>I've used a TENS on/off since about 1985.I was allergic to all but the
WB>deposite pads with flesh colored tape arrached. LOCATION OF PADS IS
WB>CRITICAL!  Suggest to talk with MD pain management spedialist or PT on
WB>placement. It helped someon thee timw, which was100% better thannone of
WB>the time. Goof luvk!

They tried several plcements of the pads and no go. Except for when
it gets real bad (usually bad weather or as it moves lower down the
spine) I can stand it. Two weeks ago I had a real bad attack and a
steroid burst starting with 30 mg. of prednisone the first day and
tapering off by 5 mg. a day for seven days  calmed it down to a
reasonable level. When it started up again last week he put me on
Medrol one every other day and that seems to have had some effect.
It has almost reached the base of the spine and once it does it will
burn itself out and just leave the damage behind. It has caused some
hip damage though and was told last year that I will need hip
replacements when the hip damage becomes more severe but thats
probably 1-3 years off and hopefully longer.

To be quite honest, after over 30 years of this I probably wouldn't
know what to do if I were pain free.<G> At least I can still walk
although movement is quite restricted. As long as the doctors can keep
it somewhat regulated I'm happy. Please don't take any of this a
complaining becaues it is not. In many ways I have been truly blessed.
I have five great kids and two wonderful grandchildren and up until
a few years ago was always able to work full time. I now do part time
computer consulting for a few companies and do work for friends just to
keep busy. Don't make a lot of money but it keeps me out of trouble and
helps pay for my toys. There are many people out there with a lot worse
problems, some of them life threatening, that make mine look minor. I
just try to remember to thank GOD each day for what I have. I believe
that a strong belief in a Higher Power goes a long way in accepting
graciously both the good and the bad that happens in our lives. I base
this not on what people have told me but from my own personal experience.

This reply turned out a litle longer than planned but sometimes I get
a little wound up. Take care, Mike...

 * SLMR 2.1a * All computers are greedy money eliminators.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!106!737!Michael.Rooney
Internet: Michael.Rooney@f737.n106.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: General Interest
From: Caleb.Burns@p0.f14.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Caleb Burns)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/14.0 - Busker's Boneyard, Portland OR


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Dear Shelby:
The codeine sold without presciption in Canada is, I believe, what
people refer to as 2, less than the strength sold in this country as
Tylenol 3. Frankly, for the last several years, in getting ready for
marathons, the stuff came in handy to remove some of the leg pain I
would get later on in the long runs.
    Absolutely I agree with you about tolerance, addiction, etc. I am
not a physician (am a psychologist), but it strikes me that for many
people, the medical community is too censorious. To pursue the point to
its ultimate limit, perhaps all aspirin should be taken from the
shelves, etc. Yeah, but when I have a headache, I reach for the aspirin.
    It is my understanding that the border personnel permit an
individual taking one large bottle of tylenol or aspirin with codeine
to enter the US without problems. But I am not sure about this.
    I would be interested to find out whether the stuff is abused in
Canada (I should think not terribly).
    Anyway, one simply asks the Canadian pharmacist for the material --
it isn't on display on the shelves -- and out you walk with it.
    Yours, Caleb

--
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Internet: Caleb.Burns@p0.f14.n105.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: General Interest
From: David.Venable@p0.f14.n105.z1.fidonet.org (David Venable)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/14.0 - Busker's Boneyard, Portland OR


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

INHO, it would be better to have a functioning painfree addict (who
would NOT need to resort to violence, since a prescription could be
filled) than a non functioning, painful person forced to be on welfare
or some such because there is too much pain to work.

but the rest of the world doesnt seem to agree.

--
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Internet: David.Venable@p0.f14.n105.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Pain.... not!
From: Mark.Munson@p0.f14.n279.z1.fidonet.org (Mark Munson)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:279/14.0 - Project Enable, Dunbar WV


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

BM>Hi, I am new to this echo, I have had the spinal injury echo before and
BM>I just got it again.  I had a OJI in August of 89, I then had
BM>surgery in January of 1990 to remove a herniated disk at L4-L5,
BM>I had success for about 2 months after this.  Then wham, the
BM>pain was right back.  I then had another surgery in June 1991
BM>to remove more disk and scar tissue.  This was successful for
BM>only about a month.  Now I am in more pain than before either
BM>of the surgeries and they (the doctors) are telling me that I
BM>am gonna have to live with it.  The Pain goes across the lower
BM>part of my back and down the left leg just like before the
BM>surgeries.  I am 32 years old and they tell me I will have to
BM>live with this, I have possibly 40 plus years to go, this is
BM>misreable.  In the last 3 years, I have worked very little, one
BM>thing I would like to do is be able to get back into the swing
BM>of things.  I go to work and sit in their chairs and it feels
BM>like someone is sitting on my shoulders pressing my lower back
BM>down onto my pelvis.  I have been on pain killers for the most
BM>part but really do not like taking them.  I also have a tens
BM>unit and when I wear it it works great, however, when I take it
BM>off when I get home it feels like someone hit me with a
BM>baseball bat in the back.  I don't mean to seem like I'm
BM>whining, but lets face it, I AM, hahahah, does anyone have any
BM>suggestions as to what might make my life a little more
BM>comfortable??  Please, any suggestions will do, Thanks.
BM>                                   Bob Moffatt

This is a personal opinion!

I think you have already answered your own question.. You have gone down
the line of the normal things that happen when you cross this part in
ones life... Drugs, Tens, Live with it,...  There is not one answer..

It sounds like the most recent and most painfull was like the one that
broke the camels back... I am not saying deal with it like the doctors
did,... But part of it is true..  You can do other things to get your
MIND off of it. if you want.. or you can find a doctor that will
prescribe what you want.. (I think a lot of the people in this
conference might agree)...  You meet the system... The system of ethics
and doctors..  When they don't have the answer, they say live with it or
go to a pain clinic..

So your choices are, Find the right Doc, if thats how you want to live,
Get into sports, something that will replace or equival the pain or keep
on searching and suffering....

Not much of a choice but its really not so unreal.

Theres no magic.. Just what you want and what will make you happy and a
better person for your friends and family.. One word of advice though...

If you choose the drug end, eventionally you will have to start over and
face it all again, or ....  well face the facts...

Mark

 * SLMR 2.1a * Ouch..... Maybe!....NOT!

--
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Internet: Mark.Munson@p0.f14.n279.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Tens units, etc
From: Mark.Munson@p0.f14.n279.z1.fidonet.org (Mark Munson)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:279/14.0 - Project Enable, Dunbar WV


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

BO>I guess I would like to see comment from those of us that use tens
BO>units. I am interested in what type, size and makeup of the
BO>various pads we use and what we like about the different types
BO>and sizes. I am curious becuase I have fornd some work "better"
BO>or longer that others.

BO>I hope this is making sense.

Bob,
   Tens units like similar units on the spinal cord side of the house
   are similar... Tens or Neural Muscular Stimulator..

   Its not the size of the pad, its the muscle it goes on to match.. If
   you are dealing with a Quadricep, then obvioulsly you would want a
   wider spread for that muscle group..   If you are dealing with a
   digit muscle, then you want a smaller one..  Main point is do what
   you therapist taught you to do, let max current for that nerve group
   get through... Don't over do it and don't under do it..

Mark

 * SLMR 2.1a * Its not like a jock strap, its science!

--
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Internet: Mark.Munson@p0.f14.n279.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: PAIN
From: Ruthie.Hoffman@f223.n260.z1.fidonet.org (Ruthie Hoffman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:260/223 - Interstellar System, Vine Valley NY


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Hiya Bob....

I'm so sorry to hear about another person having to deal with lower
lumbar pain.  I too had surgery on L4-L5, (L5-S1 isn't healthy, but
they left it alone..thankfully), did well for 9 months and then
re-injured it.  My neurosurgeon and I felt that another surgery was
NOT in the picture.

That was almost 2 yrs ago (original surgery was almost 3 yrs ago).
Last fall I couldn't stand the pain anymore (lower back and mostly
down the left leg, like you...and some down the right leg), nor the
thought of living with it the rest of my life.  I'm just a few
years older than you (I'm now 35).  My family doc sent me to a
Physiatrist.  I was skeptical, but went. Went through some physical
theraphy for several months (mild stretching, deep heat and a TENS
unit). I came away from the PT experience with a TENS unit of my
own, good stretching exercises (very important) and the same pain I
had when I started.  Although that sounds discouraging, it isn't.
My whole approach and attitude towards the pain, the injury, and my
life to come changed.

The stretching is very mild, but done every day, to whatever degree
I can manage, it really helps. Also my TENS unit is my savior.  My
intake of painkillers has dropped overall, although I still need
them at times.  The muscle spasms I have I'm finally learning to
control a little more (via medication and particular types of
stretching) and live with too.  One thing I recently bought was one
of those Panasonic hand held back massagers. This thing really
helps!!!!!  I'm amazed.  What I'm doing with it is using it on the
trigger points where I usually place my TENS unit electrodes.  It's
a "quick relief" sorta thing, but oh so good while it lasts.

I am wondering why you take your TENS unit off when you get home???
Why not leave it on??  I used to leave mine on me 24 hrs at times.
THe dr. said it was OK.  Have you thought of a Physiatrist?????

I can't say enough good things about the one I went to...and I was
VERY skeptical when I went.  They have a "whole body" sorta
approach to it, and darned if it didn't help.  I know there are no
cures out there, but I've found that alot of little things I do and
don't do or changed, piled up to make a noticable difference.  This
didn't happen overnight tho. Good luck and keep writing!!

CULater, Ruthie

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Internet: Ruthie.Hoffman@f223.n260.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Tens units, etc
From: Ruthie.Hoffman@f223.n260.z1.fidonet.org (Ruthie Hoffman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:260/223 - Interstellar System, Vine Valley NY


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

 > I guess I would like to see comment from those of us that use
 > tens units. I am interested in what type, size and makeup of the
 > various pads we use and what we like about the different types
 > and sizes. I am curious becuase I have fornd some work "better"
 > or longer that others.

Hullo Bob....  I've tried several different types of electrodes.
The ones that came with my unit were nice for a couple days and
then...no good.  They were called Jeltrodes.  They were re-usable,
supposidly for a couple weeks, but they dried out quickly and when
I tried to rejuvienate them as they suggested (put them in water),
the gel junk came off.  I then tried a couple different sizes of
the re-usable ones that are silver in color and round made by Empi
and called The Soft Touch.  The big ones were too big....the relief
I got from them compared to the smaller electrodes was diminished,
and they tended to "roll" off me...like...roll up from rubbing
against my clothing and sitting.  With the smaller ones the line
that you plug your electrode wire into pulled out of the pad!

What I use successfully now is a combination. I love the multi day
adhesive ones, either from Medtronic or Uni-Patch Multi-Days.  They
are square and stick on with an adhesive pad all around the carbon
rubber electrode (which has it's own gel on it too). (The ones that
the TENS unit maker sent me were awful. They had nylon reinforcing
webbing accross the gel area and the nylon lines poked and rubbed
like crazy!!!  Like those tags on clothing!!! YUKO!)   I can leave
this type of electrode on for several days...3-4 usually, through
daily showers and all.  A couple disadvantages to them are that you
can't move them around..once they're on a spot they're there to
stay until you take it off and throw it away.  Also, I have had
some trouble with skin breakdown with them.  I now use this stuff
before I put on the adhesive multiple day electrodes called
Skin-Prep by Smith & Nephew United and that helps ALOT with
protecting my skin from the adhesive.  When I remove them, I wash
the area real good, but gently, and use Uni-Solve, also by Smith &
Nephew, to remove any leftover ahesive. Sween Cream also helps to
heal any irritated skin after I'm all done.

When my skin gets too irritated by the multi day adhesive ones, or
I need to move the electrodes around alot or whatever, I use carbon
rubber electrodes by Staoderm along with Duraderm II skin mounts.
This makes the electrodes re-usable and self-sticking too.  No tape
and gel to mess with.  The skin mounts last for a few uses and
don't bother my skin.  They do, however, slid around on my skin in
warm weather, I've found. That I don't like.

So.....  you asked a question and got a book of a reply from me!!!
Sorry about that, but hopefully we can all learn a little from one
another about this subject.

CULater, Ruthie

--
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                  End of Issue # 2899 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
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