From: cosc1871@rosie.uh.edu (92F06787)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech
Subject: Re: More warp/s'date babble...
Date: 14 Dec 1992 15:11 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rosie.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1992Dec14.133243.24967@abo.fi>, MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI (Marcus Lindroos INF) writes...
>In <1992Dec13.211040.547@u.washington.edu> mcclaine@hardy.u.washington.edu writes:

[SNIP :)]

> 
>> >
>> >According to Sternbach's/Okuda's technical manual, warp factors work like this:
>> >
>> >Warp factor 1 = 1     x the speed of light
>> >            2 = 10
>> >            3 = 39
>> >            4 = 102
>> >            5 = 214
>> >            6 = 392
>> >            7 = 656 
>> >            8 = 1024
>> >            9 = 1516
>> >          9.2 = 2000 (estimate from graph. on page 55)
>> >          9.6 = 2500 (              "                )
>> >
>> >The main problems with this scale:
>> >1) In "Where No Man Has Gone Before," Geordi tells Picard the Enterprise will
>> >   need 300 years to travel 2,7 million light-years "at maximum velocity" 
>> >   which is supposed to be warp 9.6. This translates into a maximum velocity of
>> >   9000c.
>> 
>> 	However, if you take into account that the warp engines can only 
>> 	maintain a warp speed of 9.6 for 12 hours before it needs maintenance,
>> 	I think the values would translate to much higher speeds.  Perhaps
>> 	even to the believable scale given by Leon Myerson, no?
> 
>Well...you would be wrong here if it weren't for STAR TREK V with its idiotic
>journey to the center of the galaxy. This is a nice, short two-way trip of some
>65,000 light-years - they didn't seem to need to much time to do it [and after
[SNIP ]

Let's not forget about OST .Where No Man Has Gone Before. where the original
Consititution-Class Enterprise is at the edge of the Galaxy.  Surely, this
isn't a short little jaunt.  Granted, some could argue that the E went 
upward or downward relative to the galactic disk, but ST always liked things
flat in 2-d.  So, if they went perpendicular it's at least 2000 or so ly.  If
they went out to the arm of Perseus (IMHO would be more akin to boldly going)
then thats 20,000 ly.  And for that old ship too :)


>---
>I do think Leon's scale is way too high, especially the figures for higher warp
>speeds. Geordi probably didn't even care to calculate what the real time it
>would take to travel 2,700,000 light-years after discovering it would take 300
>years at warp 9.6.
> 
[SNIP ]

>> 
>> 	As a final point on warp speeds.  I found the Okuda/Sternbach speed
>> 	figures to be to far off to fit with what we are familiar with in 
>> 	Star Trek.  How long do you suppose it takes a starship to get from
>> 	Earth to the Klingon border?  A day?  A week?  3 months? 
>> 
>> 	If all of you fans whip out your Starlog Technical Journal and do a
>> 	little measuring, you will find that by proportion, since the galaxy
>> 	is approximately 100,000 ly across, a straight shot to the Klingon
>> 	border would be a trip of about 10,500 ly from Earth.  Will this 
>> 	take three months?  No, if the Enterprise went at the new scale speed
>> 	of Warp 9 or 1516 times c, it would take 6.9 YEARS to get there!
> 
>10,500ly to the Klingon border? Hogwash! We know from Star Trek II:TWOK that the
>neutral zone is in the vicinity of Gamma Hydrae, some 120ly from the Sun. In
>"Heart of Glory," we are being told that a subspace message [moving at
>50,000ly/year] needs one day to reach Earth from the neutral zone =150ly.
>The "Federation Exploration Zone" may or may not be correct, but we haven't
>seen it in any of the movies or the TV episodes.
> 

The border should be greater than 150 ly.  I wonder if the relay/booster 
stations are taking in account for this figure.  In any case, from the
OST .The Balance of Terror. It takes 3 or so hours for the initial response
(if I remember correctly...or actually 3 hours for the E's statreports reach
Starfleet Command) so does that mean the Romulans are at Earth's doorstep?

Then there is the thing in that very same episode where the E is roaring in
at full speedtowards the stations of the Rom Neutral Zone.  If the TNG
manual scale is used, then the Neutral Zone was ridiculously *small*.

[SNIP ]

>---
>The remaining 99% of explored space has been surveyed by remote, unmanned
>probes but no starships. We know that the alien"Tin Man" spacecraft 
>originally was discovered by a
>Vega IX automatic probe and sending out small, semi-intelligent probes on long
>journeys that would take decades even for the Enterprise makes sense,
>particularly from a financial point of view.  
> 

According to several non-canon sources, during OST roughly 10% of the galaxy
had been explored to some extent.  Kirk mentions to Cochrane in one episode
the Federation has a thousand planet (members?) and is still growing.  By
TNG things seem to have stalled out :( In my opinion it seems right to 
have Myerson's ramped up warp scale since space is *big*.  Of that, why
aren't there millions of planet members in the Federation?  Only one
thing comes to mind: the Prime Directive.  Many of those worlds are 
probably low on the development scale etc.  

Mutual ramblings from myself, my pencil and my scantron :)

Oh, Happy holly-daze too.


Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech