HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:10:06 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.055723.17114@cbnewse.cb.att.com> gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
}In article <mike_steiner-190193142329@192.35.50.131> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:

}>|                         Boycott Colorado                            |

}... I understand the sentiment,
}but isn't this recommending an action that would make the businesses
}suffer rather than the legislators?  I understand that it may have an
}indirect effect, but couldn't many innocent people suffer when their
}legislators could be told directly?  I'm curious as to the various
}opinions regarding this.

Businesses are owned by and employ people.  Businesses don't suffer,
people do.  People vote.  Legislators only listen to people who vote or
affect the vote (that's their job).

Boycott is the only legitimate way I can think of for non-residents of
Colorado to bring any significant pressure to bear on Colorado's
legislative process.  Yes, innocent people will be hurt.  Innocent people
are also hurt by bad laws.  Both causes give them incentives, and help, to
get the non-innocent (who are also suffering) to reconsider.

It's not pretty, but it's one way our system works.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                "If you can't stand solitude,
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483  perhaps others find you boring
Santa Monica, CA  90405                        as well."  -- Mark Twain
From: jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 23:52:07 EDT
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants


>In article <1993Jan12> griffidc@c-17igp.wpafb.af.mil writes...
>>If I were running National as a business, there are a few options I
>>would at least look at.  First, why are we located on some of the most
>>expensive real estate in the country?  A move into the heartland would
>>a) lower rent, utilities, wages and salaries; b) provide greater
>>geographic access for those of us outside of NY; and c) I suspect,
>>broaden the editorial viewpoint.


>shapiro@cfsctc.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro) writes:
>
>This is an issue that we addressed with national way back in 1983-1984. At that
>time, the 'answer' was that Margot wouldn't work/live/exist/move anywhere else
>and therefore, national wasn't going to be willing to move the headquarters
>(because she was the high priestess of Mensa).


This pattern of following the leader to the grave ain't new in social organizations, especially Mensa.  I can think of a few chapters where the
people in power are the ones who have always been in power.  Usually things
don't change until these key players either die or move away.

The great Margot (who really did do a lot for Mensa) is gone, so we should
seriously be thinking of saving Mensa bucks by moving headquarters out of
New York City.  (Each time I hear that mentioned to AMC bigwigs, they squak
that we have a long lease with the Landlord and we can't break it.  Plus
they say it'll cost too much to move people out to Peroria and many of them
don't want to go!  -- Breaking leases is easy, that's what lawyers are for.
Moving the clerks out may not be the right way to think about this.  How about
letting the clerks go in NYC and hiring new ones in Peroria?)

                                                      - John Cooley
                                                        LocSec & Troublemaker
                                                        Boston Mensa

 ==========================================================================
       John Cooley              Zappa as a waste management engineer: 
                                  "Hey, there, Brother!  Whatcha
    jcooley@miracle.com            doing with that Cosmic Debris?"
From: skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Date: 26 Jan 93 12:55:00 GMT
Organization: Draper Laboratory


>From: ARNOLD J RIMMER <ajr%holly.massima.com@surname.draper.com>
>Message-ID: <1993Jan12.123204@massima.com>
>
>From: <01GTEV4BIAO2BDJFRV@ccfvx3.draper.com>
>>
>>>From: Arnold J Rimmer <ajr%ice.massima.com@surname.draper.com>
>>>Message-ID: <1993Jan11.103830@massima.com>
>>>
>>>People People People...
>>>
>>>What is all the fuss about?
>>>IQ tests are not true indicators of intelligence or of mental accuity...
>>>Outside of academic pursuits, does anyone really care what your IQ, SAT,

I forgot to mention, there is one very important area in which IQ is
important, and that is in sociological studies.  IQ is really the only
way to try to draw objective conclusions about the effect of various
levels of nutrition, toxins, lead paint, etc., on large group averages.
As you may know, group averages are much more accurate than individual
scores - a very useful fact.  In these kinds of studies, the
philosophical discussion about whether IQ measures intelligence well or
not so well is almost irrelevant.  You can think of the IQ test as
merely nothing more than a fairly wide variety of tasks which have been
well standardized, and which definitely have something to do with the
health of the brain.  When the performance of a whole group suffers, you
know something is up.  Without the IQ test in this scenario, you're left
with nothing but tea leaves.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: hloedolf@cs.sun.ac.za (Hans Loedolff)
Subject: Mensa Japan
Reply-To: hloedolf@cs.sun.ac.za
Organization: Stellenbosch University, South Africa
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 11:00:23 GMT

Forgive me if this has already been discussed at length in this
newsgroup, but what happened to Mensa Japan?

-Hans
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: The Nine Dots Problem
Date: 26 Jan 93 10:03:34 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

In article <32820005@hpkslx.mayfield.HP.COM> seghers@hpkslx.mayfield.HP.COM (David Seghers) writes:

>I got a lot more email about the "Nine Dots" problem than I expected!

Well I really do hope most of it was saying "isn't this one a bit easy?".
Working with only the vague memory that I had once seen this puzzle, it took 
me about 1 minute - and 40 seconds of that was finding a pencil&paper.

possible spoiler below





















Unless of course the 4 lines are not supposed to cross?

            All creatures will make merry   (on pain of death)
    Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England    (44|0)61-275-6033
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:28:26 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <22Jan93163318@miracle.com>, jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley)
wrote:
> 
> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
> >In article <C12DEq.5uv@world.std.com>, apb@world.std.com (Al Beecy) wrote:
> >
> >> John Cumming (Second Vice Chairman) summed up what appears to be
> >> National's view when he said on CIS that the Bulletin needs to be the type
> >> of publication that can be thrown on tables in doctor's offices to help
> >> recruit new members. They don't seem to want it full of nasty internal
> >> politics. 
> >
> >Yup, he did write that, and some of us (Cindy Moog and I, among others)
> >disagreed.  I believe that the Bulletin should be primarily for the
> >members, and not necessarily be a recruitment aid.  (Don't take me wrong on
> >this; I don't think that it should be a "brown wrapper" publication
> >either.)      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> 
> You mean the Bulletin should have shied away from those SHOCKING covers
> they had recently?  ( The woman in white clothes sitting on a tree stump
> holding a rose in the snow and the woman playing the obviously phallic
> symbol flute on another cover comes to mind...)
> 
> (I personally thought these were very tame.  But it was a lot of fun to
> see the prudes come out of the woodwork on these two covers in the letters
> section of the Bulletin!)

I never did figure out what the complainers were complaining about.  If
they had complained that the covers were not tied in to any of the
articles, I could understand that, but that apparently wasn't their point.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                         Boycott Colorado                            |
|     These are my opinions, and not necessarily any one else's.      |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:02:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.084457.119776@marshall.wvnet.edu> smith@marshall.wvnet.edu writes:

}...Thus the questions becomes 'So why stay?'

I was going to try for a Letterman-style top 10 reasons, but I couldn't
come up with that many.

Before answering, I'd ask "Why did you join in the first place?  Do those
reasons still apply?"

Another reason might be "So it's there when you want/need it." If you do
find yourself with time on your hands, Mensa events are an option.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                "If you can't stand solitude,
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483  perhaps others find you boring
Santa Monica, CA  90405                        as well."  -- Mark Twain
From: shapiro@cfsctc.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:18:54 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - Marlboro, MA
Organisation: SKS Computer Consulting, Inc.


In article <727678891.AA00000@blkcat.UUCP>,
Linda.Cunningham@p811.f70.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Linda Cunningham) writes...

>I won't even mention my experiences with Intertel, as people may be eating food
>as they read this.  :-(

Hmmm. I used to belong to Intertel also.

Talk about a group of exclusionary dullards!

Back then the dues were really cheap, and I really enjoyed the newsletter as it
was pretty good and had a lot of discussions of issues. Then things changed. An
awful lot of infighting started. The newsletter became a forum for people to
argue with each other. It got to the point that the newsletter was similar to a
published newsgroup, with letters back and forth between people just argueing
with each other. 

The 'meat' of the newsletter was lost, and with it, they lost me as a member.

Personally I think that Mensa is wonderful. But it is one of those kinds of
groups where you have to participate to get full benefits from the group. I
realize this and accept it as the nature of the group.

But now that I don't have the time to participate fully, is it worth retaining
membership, just in case? I guess it is kind of like having an attorney on
retainer. You think that you're never going to need to use it, but just in case
you have to, its nice to know its available. 8-)

Regards,
Steve.

/*******************************************************************
* Steve Shapiro                 * All views and opinions expressed *
* SKS Computer Consulting, Inc. * are my own and are offered as-is *
********************************************************************
* Steve.Shapiro@f440.n101.z1.fidonet.org  BBS: (508) 664-6354 N81  *
*******************************************************************/
From: pirtle@sri.com (Dave Pirtle)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: From the Pages of Omni, Part II
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:24:16 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa
Organization: sri.com

In article <374655.655374@acme.com>, wecoyote@warner.acme.com[GENIUS
COYOTIUS] (Wile E Coyote) wrote:
> Also, the answer to the puzzle is equal to the number of posters
> as clever as I.
> 
There are at least 4 solutions.  Did you have a particular one in mind?
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:17:37 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <1993Jan21.131753.23762@ryn.mro4.dec.com>,
shapiro@cfsctc.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro) wrote:
> 
> 
> In article <1993Jan20.055723.17114@cbnewse.cb.att.com>,
> gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes...
> 
> >>+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
> >>|                         Boycott Colorado                            |
> >>|     These are my opinions, and not necessarily any one else's.      |
> >>+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
> > 
> > 
> >Your .sig brings up an interesting notion.  I understand the sentiment,
> >but isn't this recommending an action that would make the businesses
> >suffer rather than the legislators?  I understand that it may have an
> >indirect effect, but couldn't many innocent people suffer when their
> >legislators could be told directly?  I'm curious as to the various
> >opinions regarding this.
> 
> The vote was a vote by the PEOPLE, not by legislators. Under our DEMOCRATIC
> process in this country, and exemplified by the citizens of Colorado, the
> democratic method as determined that the people of Colorado, by a majority
> vote, do not want homosexuals to be considered a protected class and subject to
> special privileges which are not available to non-homosexuals. 

The people of Colorado voted to deny homosexuals the same protection from
discrimination that is afforded to other classes of people who are
historically discriminated against, and that those who voted for the
amendment are normally not subject to.  The discriminators voted not to
protect those whom they're discriminating against from that discrimination.

> If something were to be boycotted, how about actually going out, finding which
> businesses were actually discriminating based on homosexuality, and boycot
> those businesses.

How about boycotting those who have affirmed that discrimination?  IOW, the
state of Colorado.

> Also, since the 'boycott', it seems that Colorado has been prospering even
> more! Guess that the publicity helped.
> 
> The thing that galls me is the hypocrisy of those who called for the boycott,
> and then exempted themselves and certain areas of Colorado for arbitrary
> reasons.

I agree.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                         Boycott Colorado                            |
|     These are my opinions, and not necessarily any one else's.      |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 00:52:11 EDT
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants


shapiro@cfsctc.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro) writes:

>>What I was doing was pointing out ONE OF SEVERAL ways in which members are
>>lost. If you can acknowledge that this is ONE WAY in which we lose members,
>>then we can look at ways in which to prevent THIS from being one of the ways
>>new members are lost.

apb@world.std.com (Al Beecy) writes:

>What, specifically, do you suggest? We can't be everything to everyone.
>Some people simply are not going to find what they're looking for. As for
>some folks not feeling welcome, most of the event hosts that I know go out
>of their way to be friendly. As for those (hosts) who don't, what are we to
>do -- banish them from the calendar?

Al, we could both easily name one person we'd like to not sponsor
events because of how they've historically "welcomed" new members.

Maybe we could get Steve to tell that member they're no longer having
an event listed in the calendar plus work out all the damned bylaws changes
we'd need to have to make this enforcable.  (It'd still be ugly, but Steve
is a Mensan, he should be able to handle the job!)

>Hmm, Steve, sounds like you're volunteering to be our loss prevention
>officer... :^)

Seriously, thant's not a bad idea.  But first we gotta get Steve to come to
a few local Boston Mensa events...

                                               - John Cooley
                                                 LocSec, Boston Mensa

 ==========================================================================
       John Cooley              Zappa as a waste management engineer: 
                                  "Hey, there, Brother!  Whatcha
    jcooley@miracle.com            doing with that Cosmic Debris?"
From: jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Budget cuts
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 15:36:55 EDT
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

apb@world.std.com (Al Beecy) writes:
>In article <1993Jan25.095554.1@nlzcl.decnet.philips.nl> zwanenbu@nlzcl.decnet.philips.nl (Godwin Zwanenburg) writes:
>>> 
>>>>> >14) Stop paying to send national editors and AMC members to IGs
>>>>> 
>>Mensa asks his volonteers to do a lot of work, are they supposed to pay for all 
>>the expences involved? That makes the offices only open to people who not only
>
>I don't consider AMC members' attending IGs to be a *necessary* expense.
>So the answer to your question is, no, they're not supposed to pay the
>expenses involved -- unless they want to go. Same as everyone else.

I agree with Al on this.  The local groups get 1/6 of the $45 annual
dues to enable them to barely crank out a newsletter.  5/6 of the $45
goes either to National or International Mensa.  Cutting AMC & the like's
all expense paid trips to IG's perhaps is a good start to saving some
money.

I'm not against AMC members going to IG's; but we're in a fiscal crunch right
now and luxaries should be the first things that we cut.

                                                   - John Cooley

 ==========================================================================
       John Cooley              Zappa as a waste management engineer: 
                                  "Hey, there, Brother!  Whatcha
    jcooley@miracle.com            doing with that Cosmic Debris?"  

From: Craig.Wagner@p2.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Craig Wagner)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Gay Mensans?
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 23:36:22 -0500

  MY> From: <MORIARTY@NDSUVM1.BITNET> Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
  MY> Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network
  MY> 
  MY> I betthat got your attention.  :-)  The title speaks for itself so
  MY> where do we go from here? Virtually,     Michael

Where did you _want_ to go?  I know several members of Mensa's Gay SIG - did you
need someone to get an address from one of them for you?
Xref: sparky rec.org.mensa:9626 rec.answers:39 news.answers:5466
From: rjarecki@balboa.eng.uci.edu (Robert Jarecki)
Subject: Re: Colorado (was Membership Renewal ??)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 27 Jan 93 02:49:34 GMT

>> >
>> >+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
>> >|                         Boycott Colorado                            |
>> >|     These are my opinions, and not necessarily any one else's.      |
>> >+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
>> 
>> 
>> Your .sig brings up an interesting notion.  I understand the sentiment,
>> but isn't this recommending an action that would make the businesses
>> suffer rather than the legislators?  I understand that it may have an
>> indirect effect, but couldn't many innocent people suffer when their
>> legislators could be told directly?  I'm curious as to the various
>> opinions regarding this.
>
>People living outside of Colorado have no effective access to the
>legislators.  Further, it was the people of the state who approved the
>constitutional amendment after it had passed in the legislature.  If the
>state is hurt financially, perhaps it will reverse itself.  Last year, it
>was homosexuals; who will it be next year:  Jews, women, Hispanics, Asians,
>Blacks?
>
Also, articles in a recent Orange County Register indicated that
a large portion of the support for the amendment came from Colorado
businessmen (such as the Chrysler? dealer in Boulder).  If a businessman
is going to promote a constitutional amendment, shouldn't he expect the
people it effects to pressure him through his business and his peers?

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: pbroenen@northwest.corp.sgi.com (Paul Broenen)
Subject: Thanks for helping make up my mind
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:34:20 GMT


A fellow worker and Mensan had suggested I join Mensa.  I 
asked other friends of mine who had contacts with Mensa 
whether they thought it was a good idea.  Some had been 
members and quit, some were relatives of Mensans.  Except 
for the one who had originally suggested it, all recommended 
I not join. 

Next, I subscribed to rec.org.mensa to get a feel for what 
Mensans talk about.  In all fairness, there's nothing 
preventing non-Mensans from posting to this newsgroup (like
me) so much of what is discussed here (and HOW it is discussed)
may NOT be typical Mensa material.  But nonetheless, I have to 
admit, reading the name-calling and bickering that goes on here 
made my decision much easier.

Now let's see, where's that 'Unsubscribe' button...?


------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Broenen               | pbroenen@northwest.corp.sgi.com
Silicon Graphics, Inc.     | Phone: (415) 390-3258
Mountain View, CA          | Fax:   (415) 960-1284
------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:12:04 GMT

In article 55n@HQ.Ileaf.COM, mukesh@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Mukesh Prasad) writes:

[Quotes from two different people deleted]

>I could have misread you.

[more quotes deleted]

>Yes, we both seem to be using same logic here.

Mukesh -- It helps if you include attribution lines so that people can
tell who you are quoting.  Especially when there are more than one quotes
from different people.


---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141
From: jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Amendment 2 (Was: Re: Membership Renewal ??)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 15:23:37 EDT
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

matt@severian.chi.il.us (Matt Crawford) writes:
>> platinum@montage.UUCP (Doug Swallow) writes:
>> >There's is no other effect of this amendment except to PROVIDE THE
>> >RIGHT TO DISCRIMINATE BASED ON SEXUAL ORIENTATION.
>> 
>
>In article <wiegand.727987724@lido16> motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net writes:
>> I just couldn't let this pass.
>> 
>> Just because *you* can't think of other any reason to support Amendment 2
>> doesn't mean that someone else can't. 
>
>I just couldn't let *this* pass.
>
>Just because *you*, Robert Wiegand, can't see the logic leading from
>the text of the ammendment to Doug's conclusion doesn't mean that
>nobody else can.  Either show some other reason to support Amendment
>2 or admit that you are verbally masturbating at your terminal.
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Is this anything like oral sex?   :^)


Seriously, if you're going to go into a discussion on this topic, please
discuss the topic instead of all the ad hominum attacks.

(I really like to read the merits and drawbacks of both sides of this topic
instead of the usual: "Did not!  Did To!  Did Not!  Did To" crap plus the
"you can't read" baloney.)

-John


 ==========================================================================
       John Cooley              Zappa as a waste management engineer: 
                                  "Hey, there, Brother!  Whatcha
    jcooley@miracle.com            doing with that Cosmic Debris?"