HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: robertw@informix.com (Robert Weinberg)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Talon - suggestions from builders?
Date: 8 Sep 92 22:07:20 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

I guess my next plane for slope soaring will be a Talon.

I plan to use transparent yellow monocote as the wing covering for high visibility  
on low-ceiling foggy days, which we get a lot of in Pacifica.

Other than that, I am looking for helpful tips for a novice builder (I've built a  
Super Cheetah, but that's about it, and I've never built a balsa plane).

Especially, how are the instructions that come with the Talon kit? Do they omit  
anything important? If the instructions are inadequate, does anyone sell a much  
better set of instructions somewhere (I know RC Modelling sells some instruction  
kits - any good?)?

Any suggestions on changes in the standard building procedure to make a better  
plane?

Thanks for any and all help!

--
+================================+================================+
|         Rob Weinberg           |  Workstation publications tech |
|   Email : robertw@informix.com |        Graphic designer        |
|   Voice : 415-926-6754         |     <imagine your ad here>     |
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Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: rferrel@ecst.csuchico.edu (Robert Douglas Ferrell)
Subject: Beginner seeks recommendations: 2m sailplane/radio
Organization: California State University, Chico
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1992 06:10:45 GMT

Hello, RCers-
        I'm a greenhorn who recently got hooked on RC soaring.  I've always
been intrigued by RC flying, but never had the time or money (or an
instructor) to get involved.  Well, now I have some of each.  My roommate
has been flying RC models for about 10 years, and has "lent" me a Goldberg
Electra as a trainer.  We have been out flying twice now and I'm itching to
start building my first kit (while I slowly wear out the Electra).  I have
landed successfully four times and crashed once (so I get my first repair
lesson this week).  The last time we went flying we took a highstart and an
RO-8 (by Dynaflight) along with the Electra.  It was a blast!  Lots of lift
and a light breeze.  Anyway, I really liked the RO-8, but Ray says I should
start off building something a little easier.  So here's where you come in:
recommend a good 2M glider kit for me to start building.
        I have model building experience ranging from polystyrene kits (a
long time ago) to balsa and cardboard (scratch built architectural models
for friends in school).  I've built model rockets, too.  Anyway, I'd like a
nice flying sailplane as a sort of second model.  After trying out the RO-8,
I'm a bit spoiled as it flies much better than the heavy Electra.  I'll
probably be highstarting and hand-launching whatever I end up with.
        I'm also looking at radios.  Right now, I don't think I'll really
want to slope soar much, or fly sailplanes which need a winch for launching.
I'd like to keep it simple--eventually maybe ailerons and/or flaps, but
nothing too big or too fancy.  I'm torn between keeping it cheap and getting
a 4 CH FM or going for it and getting a nice programmable set.  I've read
the FAQ, but I want some specific experiences (especially regarding the
radio).  Anyway, any info regarding RC soaring is appreciated.  If I get
worthwhile feedback, I'll try to summarize it...thanks again.

-Doug Ferrell
rferrel@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: miked@syscon.rn.com (Mike DeMetz)
Subject: Re: Airtronics / Futaba
Organization: Syscon Corporate Headquarters - South Bend, IN USA
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1992 14:34:31 GMT

bobwo@ecs.comm.mot.com (Bob Woodhouse) writes:


>This question has come up recently.  I have e-mailed the answer to someone before,
>but a follow-up posting contradicted my answer.  Perhaps someone will disagree with
>my answer, but I have recently and succesfully followed verbal instructions from
>Airtronics and written instructions on a spare Futaba connector I bought, so there.

>Airtronics red or black/red    =  Futaba red 
>Airtronics outer black         =  Futaba white 
>Airtronics middle wire (black) =  Futaba black

>The wires will cross in a twisted way, so don't worry about that.
You are correct. The + and - are swapped from Airtronics to
Fut/JR.
Xref: sparky rec.models.rc:3762 news.answers:2890
From: bloom@inland.com
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: FAQ? (questions about engines)
Date: 8 Sep 92 08:52:34 CST
Organization: Inland Steel Company; East Chicago, IN

In article <Bu31B3.CBM@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:
> In article <1992Aug31.111533.2265@inland.com> bloom@inland.com writes:
>>In article <1992Aug28.220048.9625@c3177208.ssr.hp.com>, bill@c3177208.ssr.hp.com (Bill Chidester) writes:
> 
>>> : 2. Too cold a fuel or bad fuel contaminated with water.  Cold fuel 
>>> : is equivalent to low or no nitromethane.
>>> 
>>>     Actually, adding nitromethane to fuel will make an engine run cooler, not
>>>     hotter (allowing lower temperature for a given RPM, or higher RPM for a
>>>     given temperature).  From the engine's point of view, "cold" = "good", so
>>>     it will run faster and more efficiently.  I agree with the water contami-
>>>     nation, especially if you leave fuel sitting in an unsealed container in
>>>     your flight box.
>>
>>I don't think the laws of thermodynamics can be violated!  Nitro gives you 
>>more power thru more heat per power stroke.  Have you measured the 
>>head temperature of an engine running more nitro???  I'd bet a big dinner 
>>on this one.
> 
> 
> Actually he's right under some conditions. 
> 
> When the C/L speed fliers were told to limit their nitro (they were 
> running 50-60% nitro, and the new rules said they had to run somewhat
> less - 40%?) they discovered that the engines ran hotter. Why? Well, 
> with more nitro, you actually have to feed more fuel in per unit time,
> since nitro contains less energy (joules, or btu, or whatever unit 
> you'd like to use) both per unit mass and per unit volume, since it 
> releases oxygen upon burning, which is why it it used to augment power 
> in the first place (it doesn't "contain" more power; gasoline has 
> far more btu/cc than methanol or nitromethane does - it releases oxygen 
> which would give the same effect as a turbocharger would). 
> 

Wrong Iskandar!  Nitro provides more heat per power stroke than an engine 
running methanol or gasoline.  You are correct in saying that nitro has 
lower btu per mass or volume, BUT and this is the important point, 
the power of the internal combustion engine is determined by the volume 
of oxygen that can be pumped thru it.  Nitro requires less oxygen than 
either methanol or gasoline for stoichiometric burning.  This means that 
for a fixed amount of oxygen you burn more nitromethane than alcohol 
or gasoline and thus the BTUs of the nitro burn are significantly higher.
From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: AM vs FM AGAIN? - Have Mercy
Date: 15 Sep 92 10:49:31 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <BuKoo1.Ixs@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:
> 
> There isn't anything magical about dual conversion + AM. Dual conversion
> simply means that the receiver uses two intermediate frequencies instead
> of one. Single conversion receivers use 455 KHz for the IF, so the osci-
> llator crystal on the receiver (which is mixed with the incoming RF) is
> 455 KHz above or below the frequency to be detected. A filter then admits 
> 455 KHz to the rest of the receiver. Problem is with the megahertz wide band
> we operate in these days the frequencies at the top and bottom of the band
> may interfere with the ones in the middle. 

Usually the problem is with "images" at twice the IF frequency away from
the channel. For 455 KHz IFs, this would be 910 KHz above or below the
channel (whatever side the crystal is on). Careful selection of crystals
would permit operation on all channels with no chance of image receiption
within the MHz- wide band.

> Double conversion receivers get around this by using a 10 MHz or so IF,
> with a 455 KHz second stage. Such receivers are also supposedly better
> at discriminating between adjacent signals. 

And they are. Lots better.

> Now: Whats to prevent someone on a totally different band (i.e. 10 MHz
> away) from interfering with you?

Well, the first IF is usually 10.7 MHz, so the interfering image signal
would have to be 21.4 MHz away.

This isn't usually a problem. You see, before the first mixer stage (where
the crystal and channel frequencies are mixed to form the IF), there's a bit
of filtering that takes place. This filter has a hard time rejecting something
that is only 910 KHz away, but no problem eliminating very strong signals
21.4 MHz away.

It isn't foolproof, of course, but it works well. I'd recommend dual
conversion receivers in any case.

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
Principal Software Engineer        ! Packet Radio: AA4LR @ W4QO
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc. ! UUCP: uunet!hayes!bcoleman
POB 105203 Atlanta, GA 30348 USA   ! Internet: bcoleman%hayes@uunet.uu.net
Disclaimer: "My employer doesn't pay me to have opinions."
Quote: "The same light shines on vineyards that makes deserts." -Steve Hackett.

Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: jrp@bohra.cpg.oz.au (John Pitman)
Subject: wing breakage
Organization: Computer Power Software
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 01:39:54 GMT

hi There,
I ALWAYS glass the wing centres on everything I build - there is no such thing
as a plane that wont need it sometime to me. I have seen an oldtimer that
wasn't glassed 'because its never going to go fast, so I wont need to do any
high G pullouts' ! guess what - he got crossed up, lost orientation, into a 
dive, and a high G pullout - clap hands everybody! Some wings need it less
than others if they have good dihedral braces, but they still need something
to spread out the loads.
jp
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: bobwo@ecs.comm.mot.com (Bob Woodhouse)
Subject: Re: DOESN'T ANYONE RACE OFFROAD?
Organization: secure_comm
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:58:47 GMT

In article <92254.110033RJF120@psuvm.psu.edu> <RJF120@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>ALL THAT ANYBODY EVER TALKS ABOUT IS 1/10TH AND 1/12TH SCALE ON-ROAD RACING.
>WHAT ABOUT 1/10TH OFFROAD?  SURE RC10L'S ARE NICE, BUT WHEN YOU ARE ON DIRT
>WITH A LARGE JUMP IN FRONT OF YOU, YOU REALLY NEED A TRUCK.  A LOSI LX-T OR
>AN RC10-T.  SOMETHING THAT CAN TAKE A BEATING AND STILL COME OUT ON TOP.
>ANYBODY ELSE FEEL THIS WAY?
>                                        RJF120
>


Yea, sure, but the RC10Ls jump so much further that I like them better.
No, really it's a near miracle that there is any car discussion at all,
and off-road comes up now and then.  Just ask away and start somethin'.
There are some Schumacher CougarII racers out there somewhere, I think.

Have a good day,
Bob Woodhouse
Xref: sparky rec.models.rc:3639 alt.models:1165
From: ying@dirac.phys.washington.edu (Shuqian Ying)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc,alt.models
Subject: RC system for sale.
Date: 6 Sep 92 17:10:43 GMT
Organization: University of Washington


    The system includes:
 
     * MAX 4 channel radio remote control for (model) airplane (72MHz).
       Two Sticks.
     * Receiver and 4 Servos.
     * Batteries.
     * One galon of 5% nitromethane fuel.
     * O.S. 40 Engine (FP Series). Already break in but hardly used.
     * Some assesories (like the charger, certain tools, wood, superglue etc).

    The whole system could be worth of $350 if new. It is rarely used. A year 
and a half old. Ask for $140/obo. Need to get rid of due to moving. Great stuff
for hobby. E-mail or call (206)522-6084. If your are close to seattle area,
you are wellcome to come to have a look.
From: i001444@disc.dla.mil (james ogorek)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: BUILDING PLANS FOR KAOS
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:46:35 GMT
Followup-To: rec.models.rc
Organization: Defense Industrial Supply Center, Philadelphia, Pa

Looking for plans to build a KAOS using a 90 + size 
engine.
.
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: fwing@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen James Morris)
Subject: X-Cell Helicopter mod's
Summary: Improved handling with altered Bell-Hiller mixing
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 20:46:43 GMT

Remove the flybar weights (completely!) and flip the mixing lever
on each rotor blade by 180 degrees. Readjust the linkages for proper
throttle-collective mixing.  This modification decreases the 
Bell-Hiller mixing ratio and forces the chopper to fly more "from
the flybar", similar to the Concept 30 helicopter.  My helicopter
now has great hover stability and very responsive aerobatic
performance! 

Has anyone else tried or heard of this type of modification for
X-Cell helicopters?

Steve Morris
Stanford, CA




Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: ericj@hwcae.Honeywell.COM (Eric Jacobsen)
Subject: Re: Radio dreams
Organization: Honeywell, Air Transport Division; Phoenix, AZ
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 18:47:02 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.150729.4381@informix.com> robertw@informix.com (Robert Weinberg) writes:

   OK, set loose your electronic imagination.

   SUPPOSE all transmitters used the SAME frequency, sending out packets of digitally  
   encoded signals. The receiver would look for a packet addressed to it with a  
   digital code, and only pay attention to that packet.

   Everyone would have to time-share the same airwaves, so the packets would have to  
   be brief, and there would have to be assurances that if there were, say, 25 planes  
   up, nobody got bumped.

... some stuff deleted ...

This sort of thing does work, but adds a lot of complexity (interpret $$$$)
to the systems, both in the airplane and in the xmitter. The other problem
is that the channel access management (how to decide when you can transmit)
is not trivial and signal traffic collisions do occur. How to do the access
management is a current topic for networks, cellular systems, etc. Many
of the current methods involve waiting some random length of time and trying
again if a collision occurs. If another collision occurs, you wait again, etc.

The problem comes along when you need your model to respond *really quickly*
and can't tolerate the access delays. (I brought my T34 home in a body bag
this weekend because I didn't have enough response time. In this case it
was because the ground was too close to recover in time (my fault). How
would you feel if it was because the radios wouldn't respond in time?)

Another method, though is to use a spread spectrum technique where you don't
really care (as much, anyway) about how much radios are interfering with
each other. This also complicates ($$$$ again) the transmitter and receiver.

--
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
* Eric Jacobsen        Honeywell Inc.                           *
|     1-602-436-3941   Commercial Flight Systems, Air Transport |
* HVN       436-3941   US Mail: P.O. Box 21111, MS 2Q34C1       *
| FAX 1-602-436-1310   Phoenix AZ 85036-1111                    |
* INet: ericj@hwcae.honeywell.com                               *
| UUCP: uunet!hwcae.honeywell.com!ericj@uunet.uu.net            |
* The opinions expressed are my own and therefore better        *
| thought out than my employer's.                               |
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: jjf@peewee.enet.dec.com (John J. Franey)
Subject: Re: Radio dreams
Reply-To: jjf@peewee.enet.dec.com (John J. Franey)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 12:41:18 GMT


Check out the ALOHA packet radio research project in Hawaii: sometimes in
the seventies.  (Abramson, N: "Development of the ALOHANET," IEEE Trans.
on Information Theory, vol. IT-31, pp.119-123, March 1985.)

This research lead directly to the Carrier Sense/Collision Detect technology
used in the Ethernet and IEEE 802.3.

The performance attributes of this system has been thorugouhly researched.
Basically, the result is that as load increases, throughput decreases.
That is, the more pilots on the flight line, the more time it will take
for your instructions to reach your airplane.  This is due to packet collision,
whose probability increases as the number of ready stations increases.
The suggestion of using acknowledgements from the receiver will merely
compound the problem of packet loss.

I reccommend A. Tannenbaum's Computer Networks, 2nd Edtion, Prentice Hall,
Englewood Cliffs, NJ, 1988.  This book clearly discusses this and other
transmission techniques and protocols.

The CS/MD technology is an inherently unreliable datalink mechanism. 
Personally, I'll keep my Futaba.
From: tmr@cs.bham.ac.uk (Tim M. Read)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: RC submarines
Date: 5 Sep 92 13:26:35 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, University of Birmingham, UK

>>>>> On 5 Sep 92 05:17:42 GMT, fisher@kay.enet.dec.com (kay::fisher) said:

Kay> There was one Seaview - from the television show.  So here is a
Kay> trivia question.  Anybody remember the name of TV show.  I remember
Kay> Admiral Nelson and Chief Kowalski(sp) was it.

Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea

 Tim
--
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tim Read, Email: tmr@cs.bham.ac.uk, The Attention and Affect Project
    Room LG23, School of Computer Science, The University of Birmingham,
    B15 2TT, England, Phone: +44-(0)21-414-4766, Fax: +44-(0)21-414-4281
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: FAQ? (questions about engines)
Date: 13 Sep 92 20:58:49 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1992Sep11.083511.2295@inland.com> bloom@inland.com writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.025001.18866@c3177208.ssr.hp.com>, bill@c3177208.ssr.hp.com (Bill Chidester) writes:

>Running any engine too lean will cause the temperature to increase.  Your 
>experiment is flawed.  The point is to run an engine on the two fuels 
>in the proper mixture range and then measure the results.  You will find 
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You'll find the needle has to be opened more with more nitro. The reason
is you'll need more fuel per unit time to get a proper mixture. (As a side
note, when flying pulse jets, the fuel jet needed for the high nitro blends
used in Speed are far larger than the jets used when using white gas).

>that higher nitro produces both higher rpm and higher engine 
>temperatures.  As an example of nitro creating more heat in an engine, as 
>engine displacement is decreased the glow engines require more nitro 
>to maintain operating temperature to keep the plug lit.  This is the 
>reason that the .049 engines need 25% nitro to run and your .40 inch 
>engine will do fine on 5-10% nitro.  As displacement decreases, engines 
>run cooler because the surface to volume ratio of the engine increases. 
>The engine loses heat proportional to the surface area and generates heat 
>proportional to the volume (displacement) of the engine.  
>Little engines run too cool without the added nitro for heat.  
>Any questions?  I'll use Clarence Lee and Mike Billington as references.

You may very well be right, and I do think more nitro will keep a colder
plug lit when less nitro will not, but I think the effect of fuel vapor-
ization will serve to keep the engine running cooler when running more 
nitro. It may well be that the amount of heat delivered to the glowplug 
during the power stroke may be higher, but the engine runs cooler overall.

Small engines can easily be set up to run less nitro. Simply increase the
compression ratio. The Cox .049s love high nitro because, I think, they 
are set up with fairly low compression. Of course, with less nitro, they
produce markedly less power, and since they (especially Tee Dees) are main-
ly for competition use they are more often made to run with more nitro. 
I've run Cox reed valve engines with 0% fuel by using a Tee Dee "high com-
pression" head (works great!). 

My Cipolla .09s like fairly low nitro (10% or so) until they got so worn 
that blowby became horrendrous, in which case high nitro was tolerated. 

Different engines in the same size range will accept different amounts 
of nitro. Try running 25% in a box stock Fox .35 stunt and see what hap-
pens. Try the same thing with a Fox .36 Combat Special. Works just fine.





-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: Thermodynamic laws
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 00:32:00 GMT

There are a few things to consider here:

1) If you use more nitro you produce more energy per stroke, and
   presumably more heat.

2) If you use more nitro you cool the engine more since you need 
   more fuel (which vaporizes) per stroke.

3) If you use more nitro without increasing head clearance you 
   run the risk of pre-ignition which _decreases_ efficiency, so
   more of the energy is lost as heat and less goes into the power
   stroke, and this is why in sport engines you get overheating 
   from addition of nitro.




-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: FAQ? (questions about engines)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 04:37:21 GMT

Theres one other thing that may help flame-out troubles. Adding
an "ignitor" to the fuel. Most fuel manufacturers do this already. 
The usual ones to use are propylene oxide and acetone. I've even
heard of gasoline being used. Use about 1-3%. 

I did have Red Max mix me up some special 1/2-A brew with about 15% 
propylene oxide once (a formula published in a Model Builder free 
flight column). 35% nitro. Worked great in Tee Dee .049's. Quick easy
starts.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !