From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Death of America
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: The Bates Motel
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 04:17:22 GMT

an030@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Broward Horne) writes:
>
>      My friends I stayed with in Toronto had interesting things to
>  say:
>
>        Their property tax was raised 5% last year.  They felt they
>     were "lucky" since they knew others had been raised up to 14%
>     more.

That's a local city tax, just like in the United States.  Nothing to
do with the federal government.  Even my German in-laws in New Jersey
had their property taxes raised big in (Republican) Bergen County ...

> Their income tax was raised almost $20 / WEEK!.  That's a $1000/year!

So, did they both get hefty raises last year and/or get married?
Getting married is enought to get your taxes upped by $1000 in the
U.S., ya know ...

I get UPI Clarinet's Canadian news on our feed; where in the last
couple of federal budgets has such a tax hike come through?  Hey,
I'm a tax-hating son of entrepreneurs ... but I can see where your
friends were exaggerating in their bellyaching.  Do you know of any
sources to contradict them?  Do your local papers ever print anything
about Canada? (Except for explosions and Quebec nationalist eruptions?)

>   They receive no interest deduction for house payments.

That's an aberration of the U.S. tax system.  Everything's relative.
Does the U.S. give you a deduction for expenses in running a power
saw?  Order a federal tax form from a Canadian consulate or embassy.
It's in there.  It has it's own little outlined section ...

>      I think NOT!  Not from what *I* saw in Toronto.  About the
>      only difference I could find between it and L.A. was that 
>      the gangs weren't spraying graffiti or littering.

Could you please explain the "gangs" in a realistic manner that is
consistent with what someone living in Toronto could confirm?  Where
are the shootings?  Where is the crack?

I'm not trying to excuse Canadian street gangs, but they are more
of a political/class nature like in Britain and Europe rather than
having an organized crime agenda.  (BTW, I'm anti-prohibition but
the nature of the dealers is something else entirely, and one of
the reasons why I am anti-prohibition ...)

By the way, Broward, I don't mean to insinuate anything but all that
you've written so far reads like a bad paraphrase (very bad re: the
gangs) of an article that Charles Packer posted during the summer ...
did you stay with his friends? (-; (Which district were you staying in?)

>      The gas tax ALONE is a killer.  It effectively DOUBLES the cost
>      per gallon.

We do not have toll booths up north.  (Once again, Charles Packer ...)

>      I've seen the future.  It's highly bumming to think that the 
>      U.S. will be like this by the end of the decade. 

Canada hasn't been like that, as you've exaggerated; I'm not denying
the warts (check the companion article to this one; I'm a free trader)
but we are reconfiguring.  It's not necessarily a matter of socialism,
as I realize that Canada and Western Europe are now a favourite target
of McCarthyists in the new world order, but note that we suffered the
scourge of Victorianism, which has not had very good effects on our
efforts in commerce.

>>The educated populace and investment in facilities is being noticed as
>>the country restructures (after all you've written, please don't turn
>>around and say you're against free trade!), with upgrades at Amdahl
>>and IBM Research in Toronto, DuPont in Kingston, etc. -- real jobs in
>>white collar, intellectual capital areas that have long suffered up
>>north.  If you go along with the general domestic complaining, you
>>are arguing for more chicken-cutting jobs for our university grads.
>
>      Upgrades at IBM?  When I was there this summer, they were 
>      laying off.

I'm not talking about IBM in general ... even with their layoffs,
they are hiring.  People in our EE and CS departments are going in
as new hires for specific projects they can't move existing people
into (I'm not breaking any nondisclosure here; it's in the papers).
I've interviewed and have had follow-ups.  In Toronto, IBM Canada
Research is no longer a white elephant tax write-off but has a real
product development mandate.  I don't know how much of their work
has been written in the business press (WSJ, NYT or Globe & Mail)
but I'll have to claim nondisclosure on this one ... all I can say
though, is that it's quite different from what they told me when I
went calling on them as an undergrad or when I was working between
degrees and "checking things out", so to speak.

>      Oh, oh, I get it.  "Upppggrrraaddddiiiinnnngggg".  Like, eh,
>     the "realignment" at HP.  Okay, gotcha. ;)

Amdahl has moved a lot of their software systems development to
their site in north Toronto and were hiring from May through the
fall.  I've been waiting a year for an interview at their hardware
lab in the Bay Area (I'm not flaming Amdahl here; they have their
valid corporate reasons for their ongoing freeze at that site; I'm
just using this for an illustration).

As much as I can sympathize with your friends' complaints, I'm afraid
that you should be a little more critical before accepting every word
at face value rather than taking caution for any exaggerations and/or
artistic licence ... I realize that it goes along with your general
frame of mind at the moment (I don't mean that as a flame; I've
enjoyed reading your articles), but do pause and take a deep breath
next time ...

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@cunixd.cc.columbia.EDU 		Support NAFTA
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			 Eat Mexican  (El Teddy's ad)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,alt.politics.libertarian