HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Quakers: What are they? conclusion
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:51:49 GMT

v128juxa@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (SCHUYJUANNAH) writes:

>In article <warren.720713561@beloved>, warren@pws.ma30.bull.com (Warren Lavallee) writes...
>>OK, after reading all the followups I have come to this conclusion:
>> 
>>	o Members are led to the truth by a "Light" that the 
>>		Christians call the Holy Spirit.  What the
>>		non Christians call it I would be extremely
>>		interested in.
>> 

>I think they'd call it 'God'. Since the Holy Spirit is another manifestation 
>of God, other cultures would consider it as such.

Well, I call it many things.  When I am referring to the unified Divine Source,
I call it the Spirit.  However, I use many different names when I am
connecting to various aspects of the Spirit.  When I need the Spirit to be a
Mother, I say Dana; when I need the Spirit to be a Lover, I say Robin, etc.  I
use as many names as I find helpful.  I remind myself, by using many names,
that the true Spirit is beyond any image any person can have.  With many images,
I am not tempted to assume that I *know* what the Spirit is.


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
From: lms@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Max Stern 310-524-6152)
Subject: Re: FAQ minute
Summary: Categorical Imperative defined
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not necessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 16:30:30 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.192232.16001@netcom.com> andyrose@netcom.com (San
Francisco Fractal Factory) writes:

>[...]
>
>What is Kant's categorical imperitive?
>  One must never use another as a means to an ends.
>
>[...]
>-- 
>Andrew Rose andyrose@netcom.com FAX   end killing
> 

Well, Andy, thy many postings of yesterday wander wondrously through
realms spiritual and otherwise.  I would not presume to comment.

However, forgive me for correcting thee on a matter of fact.

Kant's categorical imperative is his very deep attempt at a universal
ethic, which goes far beyond "One must never use another as a means to
an ends."  It is usually stated in English something like this:

    Act only according to that maxim that you would will to become
    universal and absolute.

Or, oversimplified, "Always and only, do what you would be willing to
have everybody do."

In other words, in each moral choice, ask yourself, "Would I choose to
have everybody in the world make this choice when in this situation?",
and only proceed if the answer is "Yes."  This probably implies "One
must never use another as a means to an end" as a specific case of the
general rule.

Anyway, Kant was not a Friend, was he?
-- 

 |\/|  /_\  \/
 |  | /   \ /\                      Max.Stern@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com
From: andyrose@netcom.com (San Francisco Fractal Factory)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Re: Osijek Fundraising
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:41:52 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

same reference to Right Sharing thread.

Asking for money and giving money should
be a fulfilling experience.  Let us make it so!

-- 
Andrew Rose andyrose@netcom.com FAX   end killing
From: Joel Sax <jsax@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Date: 05 Nov 92 10:07 PST
Subject: Re: Prison Reform
Nf-ID: #R:Bx3MnK.51y@usenet.ucs.indiana.ed:1942706128:cdp:1744600016:000:427
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!jsax    Nov  5 10:07:00 1992


Interestingly, the idea of the Penintentiary (a place to
repent for your sin) grew out of early Friends testimonies.
Quakers in Pennsylvania got the right to run the first
penitentiaries with an eye to reform.

The structure of the new prison, however, put the prisoners
into solitary confinement to think about their misdeeds
and reform themselves.  Unfortunately, this practise drove
many of the inmates insane . . . .

Joel
From: Joel Sax <jsax@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Date: 08 Nov 92 11:27 PST
Subject: Orkney Families Vindicated
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1744600024:000:1921
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!jsax    Nov  8 11:27:00 1992


From: Joel Sax <jsax>
Subject: Orkney Families Vindicated

/* Written  6:09 pm  Nov  8, 1992 by aldopacific@gn.apc.org in igc:gen.quaker */
/* ---------- "Orkney Families Vindicated" ---------- */

The judicial enquiry into the Orkney child abuse allegations (where
4 families, including two Quaker ones, had their children removed
in a dawn raid in the spring of 1991) has now been completed by 
Lord Clyde and its findings were published last week.

The social workers, police and child care organisations involved
are severely criticised for appaling errors of judgement, acting
without evidence, using interview techinques which would break
the children down thereby creating apparent evidence, and consistent
refusal to admit that they had been wrong, instead rallying behind
one another to maintain a front of credibility. 

Those of us who struggled on behalf of the families involved would
like to communicate on this network our thanks to those of you who
sent messages of support at the time. Although I have avoided 
recent contact with the families as this will have been a busy and
emotive time (yet again, but good this time!), I know that they too
would wish to extend heartfelt appreciation.

I think that all of us are aware that genuine child abuse does take
place, and that usually it is not something fabricated by insecure,
inexperienced, Christian fundamentalist etc. social workers. In 
fighting this case, we would not in any way wish to detract from the
difficult and devastating work being carried out on behalf of abused
children. On the contrary, the Orkney situation has focussed the minds
of Friends in Britain to be alert to the constant possibility of child
abuse in various forms, including the neglect of childrens' needs apparent
in the care rosters of some of our own meeting houses.

For the kids!

For all who care, including those who make mistakes in so doing!

Alastair McIntosh.
From: hareb_s@cubldr.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: question about Muhammad as last prophet
Date: 8 Nov 92 15:54:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: lear.721238046


In article <ZEESHAN.92Oct23144016@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>, zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan) writes:
> 
> 	This has nothing to do with the current Ahmadiya thread, so
> please don't flame me...
> 	Question:  Does the doctrine of Muhammad as the last prophet
> originate in the Quran, or does it come only from Hadith sources?
> 
> farewell-
> --
> Zeeshan Hasan 




It originates from the Quran: 
The verse is : "Muhammadun Rasoolu LLahi Wa Khatamu-nnabiyyeen"
TR: Muhammad is the messenger of Allah and the seal of the prophet!
I do not remember the verse number now .. but it is easy to check.
Furthermore.. to check the meaning , check with a person whose mother
tongue is arabic or who knows arabic perfectly.  You see a non arabic
speaking speaking person can be misled by some of the Ajami originated
self -claiming prophets (false) that appeared in this century. 
> 
>
From: gt7242a@prism.gatech.edu (KHAN,RAHEEL)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Correction in Article about Ahmadiyya and Islam
Date: 8 Nov 92 16:06:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: romeo.721238807
Followup-To: soc.religion.islam




 
Assalamualaikum:

I recently posted an article on Ahmadiyya and Islam.  As one brother
pointed out, I made a factual mistake (a big one, in fact) in my
article.  I had written about the wars of Apostacy:


        This was not the only time war was raged for Apostacy in 
     the early history of the Khilafa(t).  A tribe of Muslims refused 
     to pay Zakat, declaring that they would do everything that Islam 
     required except pay Zakat!  Abu Bakr, who was the Khalifa, wanted 
     to settle matters peacefully but all of the Companions (RAA) 
     adviced him to wage war against these people, since Zakat
     is as obligitory on Muslims as is Salat!  Abu Bakr (RAA) took the 
     advice of the Companions and waged war against that tribe.


The fact is that it was Omar(RAA), who latter became the second Khalifa
(Caliph) of the Muslims and not Abu Bark(RAA) who had inially opposed
waging war against those who had refused to pay Zakat(obligatory poor-due).
Shortly after Osama bin Zaid (RAA) had with an army against the Romans, 
according to the last commands of the prophet(SAAWS), one group of 
Arabs, seeing the Khalifa had few fighting men left and thinking that the
Muslims were weak, declared that they would follow the other commandments
of Islam but they would not pay Zakat like they used to in the time of the
Prophet (SAAWS).  Omar(RAA) and some other companions advices Abu Bakr to 
be lenient towards these people in view of the grave circumstances,
whereupon Abu Bakr(RAA) told Omar(RAA):

    "O Omar, you used to be very hard in the times of Ignorance!
what is this, have you become soft after accepting Islam?  The chain of
revelations has ended.  The religion has been perfected.  Can it be 
compromised while I am still living?  By Allah, If any tribe stops 
so much as one animal of Zakat, I will wage Jahad against it!"

The community agreed with Abu Bakr's (RAA) decision and fought those who
had refused to pay Zakat, and subsequently defeated them.


I opologize for this mistake and pray that Allah reward the brother who
pointed out this discrepency.

Wassalam


Raheel Ahmed Khan  


-- 
KHAN,RAHEEL
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt7242a
Internet: gt7242a@prism.gatech.edu
From: ahmad@ra.cs.umb.edu (Ahmad Hashem)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Brochures or leaflets on Islam needed
Date: 8 Nov 92 15:54:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: romeo.721238088


This is posted for Waseem Samman <waseem@acs.bu.edu>.  Please respond 
to him directly.

========================================
Dear brothers and sisters,

We, Muslim students at Boston University, intend to start a kind of 
Info Desk on Islam.  We have arranged for a desk, a TV and VCR to 
show Islamic films and to answer any questions.  We are short of
brochures, fliers, leaflets, etc.  Any ideas about where we can obtain
those?  Thanks a lot.

Assalamu alaikum,
Waseem Samman,
waseem@acs.bu.edu
============================================
From: milind@agni.cc.nd.edu (Milind Saraph)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: SOC.RELIGION."ISLAM".AHMADIA
Date: 8 Nov 92 16:11:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: romeo.721239065
Organization: Univ. of Notre Dame


There was a long discussion on Islam and Science on SCP recently.
Aabdalla@pollux.usc.edu (Ahmed Abd-Allah) in his post on Quran and Sci.
talks about Islam and Science.  He concludes that the universe will
continue expanding forever until the day of judgement.  He cites two
verses from the Quran to support his conclusion.

Some weeks ago, Shakil cited an unpublished book by J. U. Ahmed 
which uses some verses from the Quran to reach an opposite 
conclusion, that the universe will end with the Big Crunch.

I think the whole exercise is silly.

-- Milind Saraph

This is from the post on SRI by aabdalla@pollux.usc.edu 
(Ahmed Abd-Allah):

|>It also embodies a prediction: modern 
|>science has not yet discovered whether the universe has enough mass to 
|>eventually cease expanding and consequently collapse upon itself 
|>(because of the overwhelming pull of gravitation)  However, this verse 
|>makes a very clear point that the expansion will never end (until the 
|>Day of Judgement, to be precise).

|>[42:29]
|>And among His signs is the creation of the 
|>heavens and the earth, and the living creatures 
|>that He has scattered through both of them...
|>
|>[45:13]
|>And He has subjected to you (man), from Him, all 
|>that is in the heavens and on earth: behold, in 
|>that are signs indeed for those who reflect.

This is from a post by Shakil Ahmed:

|>Here are some references which almost definitely
|>indicate strong support of the Big Crunch theory.  This is taken from
|>work on a book in preparation by Dr. J.U. Ahmed who is a nuclear
|>physicist.  Please do look beyond Bucaille if you are really
|>interested in this material.  Sura Naml 87-88, Jumar 68, Tur 7-10, Ar
|>Rahma 37-38, Waqiah 1-6, Haqq, Maarij 8-9, Mujammi 14 and 18, Muddasir
|>8-9, Mursalat 7-10, Naba 17-20, Takwir 1-3, Infitar 1-4, Inshiqqat
|>1-4, Ahkaf 1-3.

|>From these, the following becomes obvious:

|>- the sky will be cleft asunder, its color will appear as that of
|>molten brass, and it will appear like a red ointment

|>- the stars will be scattered, will lose their lustre, will be dim,
|>and will fall

|>- the earth will be shaken to depths, it will be flattened, it will
|>swoon, the earth and the mountains and firmament will be in violent
|>commotion

|>- the mountains will be crumbled to atoms, become dust scattered
|>around, will become like wool, will be a heap of sands poured out and
|>throwing down they will vanish like a mirage, they will fly hither and
|>thither, they will pass away as the clouds pass away, they will
|>crumble to powder.

|>- the oceans will burst

|>- the graves will be turned upside down
From: exposim@hp9k.lag.itesm.mx (Simposium de Sistemas)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: I want to know more
Date: 8 Nov 92 16:00:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: lear.721238440



   Hi!

   I am a catholic, but i am very interested in know more about other
   religions, specially islamic, who i think it's a very interesting one.

   How can i learn more?  where can i find info about it?

                                                   Luis Gutierrez

              send your answers and comments to:   lg248399@hp9k.lag.itesm.mx
                                                    exposim@hp9k.lag.itesm.mx
From: exuasqa@exu.ericsson.se (Asem Qaddoura,xt-dk,1209)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: WHy muslims are allowed to kep four wives a
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:52:15 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
Reply-To: exuasqa@exu.ericsson.se
NNTP-Posting-Host: wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.
Originator: gwydion@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article 16397@njitgw.njit.edu, smc2103@hertz.njit.edu (Servant of the Universe!!) writes:
!!-Assalam_O_Alikum !!!!!!
!!-
!!-                      I was asked this question and i was stuck.... can 
!!-anyone please throw a light on this in the light of Islam for me ?
!!-
!!-   " Why are men allowed to marry four women and the women to marry one person
!!- at a time?" . Your views , comments and suggestions are welcome !!!!!
!!-                                                    Thanks .

First, we have to agree that Adultary is not accepted, should not be permitted
or practiced.

If we do so (and this is one of the answers), then how could I women marry more
than one man, and for example the all want to have kids,
Who is the father of the kid, how will take care of the wife during her pregnancy(sp!)
and suppose they all have the same blood type or what ever, how do make sure that
those tests used to identify the father are 100% correct, since there is no place
for a 0.0000..1 mistake.   At least, this is my understanding ......
From: Nadeem G Chaudhry <nchaudhr@cs.ulowell.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Malcom X movie and more
Date: 10 Nov 1992 00:14:12 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
Reply-To: Nadeem G Chaudhry <nchaudhr@cs.ulowell.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu
To: gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Originator: gwydion@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu



	In the name of Allah the most Beneficent and Mercifull.


Assalam-U-Alequm,
		This is a suggestion and not a invitation to
discussion/flame war. This week or next week Newsweek is going to
bring out a special issue on Malcom X/Shebaz. Also during the same
time period, the movie MalcomX is going to be released. These two
events will most probably create some interest in the minds of the
people (those who take interest in such stuff) about Islam. I think it
will be a good opportunity for us to present these people with correct
information about Islam. I think going to the Cinema where it is being
played and distributing some pamphlet or leaflet about Islam will be a
good way to do it. I think this is a good Dawah opportunity and we
should take advantage of it.


Wassalam
Nadeem
From: mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Mazen Mokhtar)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Koran translation
Date: 6 Nov 1992 11:53:03 GMT
Organization: AT&T
NNTP-Posting-Host: wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Originator: gwydion@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article <98865@bu.edu> gavras@acs.bu.edu (Alexis Gavras) writes:

>I'm currently starting to read an English translation of the Koran titled
>"The Koran Interpreted" by A. J. Arberry. If anyone out there is familiar 
>with this version, could you advise me as to the accuracy of this translation
>and the degree to which it does the original justice?

  I do not have the translation myself, but I have an article by A. R. Kidway
of the Islamic Foundation (Leicester, UK) published in the Muslim World
Review (Vol 7 No 4 Summer 1987) entitled: "Translating the Untranslatable, a
survey of English translations of the Qur'an."

  About A. J. Arberry's translation, the article says:
  "A. J. Arberry, a renowned Orientalist and Professor of Arabic at the
  Universities of London and Cambridge, has been, so far, the latest non-Muslim
  translator of the Qur'an. Arberry's 'The Koran Interpreted' (London, 1957) no
  doubt stands out above the other English renderings by non-Muslims in terms of
  both its approach and quality. Nontheless, it is not altogether free from 
  mistakes of omission and mistranslation, such as in Al `Imran III:43,
  Nisa IV:72, 147 and 157, Ma'ida V:55 and 71, An`am VI:20, 105, A`raf VII:157,
  158 and 199, Anfal VIII:17, 29, 41, 59, Yunus X:88, Hud XI:30 and 46 and
  Yusuf XII:61."

  The article concludes with:
  "[...] it is only a matter of time before we have a worthy translation of
  the Qur'an in that tongue [English]. Till then, the Muslim student should
  judiciously make use of Pickthall, A. Yusuf Ali, Asad and Irving. Even
  Arberry's stylistic qualities must not be ignored. Ultimately, of course,
  the Muslim should try to discover the original and not allow himself to be
  lost in a maze of translations and interpretations."

  All in all, I strongly recommend that you use a translation by a Muslim. The
one I recommend is A. Yusuf Ali's, because of the Appendices and the numerous
explanatory footnotes.

  May we all be guided to the Straight Path.


Regards,

Mazen Mokhtar
From: smc2103@hertz.njit.edu (Servant of the Universe!!)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: WHy muslims are allowed to kep four wives at a time?
Date: 9 Nov 1992 23:43:45 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.
NNTP-Posting-Host: wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Originator: smc2103@hertz.njit.edu
Originator: gwydion@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu

Assalam_O_Alikum !!!!!!

                      I was asked this question and i was stuck.... can 
anyone please throw a light on this in the light of Islam for me ?

   " Why are men allowed to marry four women and the women to marry one person
 at a time?" . Your views , comments and suggestions are welcome !!!!!
                                                    Thanks .
-- 
     ,__@`                  'Q__,    'Q__,    'Q__,    'Q__,  Shoaib Chaudhry
      \<,   "Wrong way you   ,>/      ,>/      ,>/      ,>/   Computer science
   /^\/ //\    IDIOTS!"    /\\ \/^\ /\\ \/^\ /\\ \/^\ /\\ \/^\ NJIT,NEWARK,NJ.
   \_/  \_/                \_/  \_/ \_/  \_/ \_/  \_/ \_/  \_/
From: aj@hoqas2.att.com (Ahmad M Jrad)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Talk on Bosnia
Date: 6 Nov 1992 12:17:22 GMT
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Reply-To: aj@hoqas2.att.com (Ahmad M Jrad)
NNTP-Posting-Host: wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Originator: gwydion@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu

<I am posting this for a friend. - Ahma>
---------------------------------------------------------

                            WHEN WILL THE PAIN END?

                               A free lecture on
                      The Current Political Situation and
                         The Humanitarian Condition in
                               Bosnia-Herzegovina

                                    Given by

                        The Honorable Mohammed Sacirbeg
                  Ambassador and Permanent Representative from
                       the United Nations Mission of the
                       Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina

                          Wednesday, November 11, 1992
                                 7:30 - 9:00 pm
                            Edison Science Building
                               Lecture Hall - E 1
                     Monmouth College, West Long Branch, NJ

                               Open to the Public


                 Sponsored by Monmouth College's Departments of
               Political Science, Philosophy, Religious Studies,
                        and of History and Anthropology,
                      and the Holmdel Islamic Studies Club



  Directions to Monmouth College, Long Branch, New Jersey:

  Take Garden State Parkway Exit 105 onto Route 36 East. Continue on
  Route 36 East approximately 3 miles to Route 71. Turn right onto
  Rt. 71 South. After 1 mile, Rt. 71 will fork left and become
  Cedar Ave. Make right on Larchwood Ave. and use the Larchwood
  entrance to the campus.

******************************************************************
SAVE BOSNIANS FROM HUNGER AND FREEZING.
Please make a donation to one of the organizations below:

Bosnia Relief Fund              Bosnia Relief Fund
1926 Freedomlane                330 East 39, Suite 4D
Falls Church, Virginia 22043    Newyork NY 10016

Food & Relief for Bosnia    Ziraat Bank
277 west midland avenue     Account no 60558000433
Paramus NJ 07652            330 Madison Avenue (32nd Floor)
                            New York, NY 10017
From: tang1613@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tariq A. Nayfeh)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Sufi's and Tareek
Date: 8 Nov 92 16:02:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: romeo.721238571

In the name of Allah, the Most Mercifull and Most Gracious.

I have a question about the status of Sufi's and similar
"Islamic" sects.  What is the opinion of Islamic scholars
about them?
Are they considered to be Muslim or not?
etc...
Please provide support through hadith, Quran or acceptable
Islamic sources.
Thanks
Sallam to all 
Tariq

-- 
******************************************************************************** 
Tariq A. Nayfeh                * 
Medical Scholars Program       * 
University of Ill. U-C.        *
From: ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Marriage in Islam
Date: 8 Nov 92 15:46:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: romeo.721237601
Organization: Technical University of Vienna


In article <7OCT199202495804@iago.caltech.edu> mughal@iago.caltech.edu (ASIM M MUGHAL) writes:
[...]
   I never knew that there was a difference. Could you please explain that one?
   A muslim man can marry a jewish woman or a monotheistic christian woman.
   A muslim woman can only marry a muslim man. however this rule applies only in 
   cases where the muslims are the majority. In the case like here in the united
   states where we are the minority, a muslim can only marry a muslimah and vice
   versa.

   zafar

>From where do you know this?
--

_______  __ ________________________________________________ _ _______________
   /|   |    	A. Ekrem SABAN	       / Technische Universitat Wien
  /_|_  |_  ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at/Inst.f. Techn. Informatik, VLSI-Design
 /  |     |    "Nu ninda-a ezateni,  /Address: 1040 Wien, Treitlstr. 3/2
/   |__ __|	vadar ma ekuteni"   /Tel:(43-1)58801/8147, Fax:(43-1)569697