HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca (Mike Morris)
Subject: Re: REWARD OF $US100 TO END FATWAH ON RUSHDIE
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 19:34:59 GMT

                                    Monday, the 12th of October, 1992

I had skimmed over this one before, John, only really noticing it
when it was requoted:
  THE PARTY MAY RESORT TO WHICHEVER MEANS ARE NECESSARY TO ACHIEVE THE AIM.

I think one possible way to achieve an end to the fatwah
would be for the West to begin by insisting diplomatically
that the fatwah be recanted. The West could then set a deadline
after which it would plan to make war on Iran until
the fatwah were withdrawn. It is not realistic
that this could happen, since the political will isn't there,
but I will submit that it realistically could achieve the final goal
of getting the fatwah officially stopped. The dollar
cost would no doubt be high, however, (more than, say, $100 per
capita), and even if western casualties could be minimized, we
might still end up killing 100,000 Iranians, say.

Let me make sure I understand you, John: are you willing to
applaud a western leader who would use such means?

             Mike Morris
       (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: danger (was She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia
Date: 8 Oct 92 13:30:49 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <9720@emory.mathcs.emory.edu> mworley@mathcs.emory.edu (Meg Worley) writes:
>Lauren Crawford writes:
> 
>>    Actually, I remember reading somewhere that the homicide rate in
>> Belfast, including all deaths from political violence, is lower than the
>> homicide rate in most large American cities.
>
 
I didn't write this.  



-- 
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: alison@wsrcc.com (Alison Chaiken)
Subject: Re: Seeking: incisive essayists, any race, creed, or gender
Organization: W S Rupprecht Computer Consulting, Fremont CA
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 03:50:56 GMT

I advocate reading Ellen Goodman's books of essays, if newspaper
columns can be called essays.  I am constantly amazed at her ability
to make thought-provoking, novel comments about newsworthy topics.
Even during overexposed media panics like the Gulf War or the Clarence
Thomas debacle, Ellen always has something original to say.  This is
why her essays hold up even years later.  Of course, she also writes
about less time-dependent topics like holidays, motherhood, etc.

-- 
Alison Chaiken 				alison@wsrcc.com
(510) 422-7129 [daytime] 		or chaiken@cmsgee.llnl.gov
Look if you like, but you will have to leap.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox)
Subject: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 16:23:47 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.222648.14265@klaava.Helsinki.FI> amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell) writes:
>One more excellent reason why I left North America for
>belle Europe.  

	An even more excellent reason being that you're gone.
-- 
				Tom Maddox
		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
		"The Reptoids eat humans like we eat chickens."
				Alex Alexander
From: anlyyao@igc.apc.org (An-Ly Yao)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Brecht: Life of Galilei
Date: 11 Oct 92 01:47:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1446700013:000:81
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!anlyyao    Oct 10 18:47:00 1992


Anybody, who knows about an English translation of Brecht's "Leben des
Galilei"?
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:18239 soc.culture.soviet:8646
From: wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au (INFIDEL)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Movies
Date: 13 Oct 1992 11:51:45 GMT
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: madvax.maths.uwa.oz.au

Daniel Read <dr3u+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

> 
>=The director's name is Antonio Antonioni; I forget the name of the film.
>=It's about a filmmaker/intellectual who tries to find happiness amongst
>=the glamourous set of Rome. He falls for a beautiful woman who uses him
>=to get a role in a film; but he ends up living with the woman who loves
>=him and whom he has got pregnant. The last scene of the film is the
>=filmmaker hallucinating that he's being whisked away by aliens.


>This is IDENTIFICATION OF A WOMAN.  However, I don't remember him either
>(a) being used to get a role in the film, (b) getting a woman pregnant,
>or (c) hallucinating being whisked away by aliens.  However, there IS a
>space ship in the last scene.  

>Maybe you were just joking.

No, it's true, I spoke to the aliens last week and they told me.


>daniel
> 
> 

janek
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Wednesday, 7 Oct 1992 10:44:30 CDT
From: Cole Kendall <U48073@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Baseball (was: Re: Attractiveness (was: Re: She's baaaaack)
 <6OCT92.22564320@vax.clarku.edu> <1992Oct6.230805.16629@adobe.com>

In article <1992Oct6.230805.16629@adobe.com>, snichols@adobe.com (Sherri
Nichols) says:
>In article <6OCT92.22564320@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:
>>A book that I've been tempted to recommend to the stat-heads on
>>rec.sport.baseball is FOUL BALL, by Alison Gordon, the first woman sports-
>>writer to be a regular beat reporter (in Toronto, for the Blue Jays).
>>It's the story of her trials and tribulations being accepted into the
>>man's world of baseball.  She was covering the Blue Jays when Bill James'
>>first Baseball Abstract book was published, and she says all the ballplayers
>>sat around reading it and yelling, "What a crock of shit!  This guy knows
>>NOTHING ABOUT BASEBALL!!!"  But I don't want to burst any stat-head balloons -
>>-they're happy in their ignorance.

>Ignorance of what?  That baseball players aren't the most analytical types
>on the face of the earth?

I would like to see Bill James learn to write a little better; I have no
problems with his self-taught statistics (although a few courses in
statistics would help improve his analysis).  But I cannot read
more that a few pages of his prose without resting.

Cole Kendall
From: emzx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Reactions to the new New Yorker
Date: 7 Oct 92 23:28:24 EDT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

I think the new and improved New Yorker is fine and dandy - it's got a nice
blend of young and old stuff.

This week's(Oct. 5th) issue's stories, one by Updike and another by someone I'm
not very familiar with, seem to be a telling duo as far as the future is
concerned.  The story I'm talking about is "Offloading for Mrs. Schwartz," I
think is the correct name.  It's a bona fide sci-fi story.  When was the last
time you saw that in the New Yorker?  And the week before that, we saw a story
by Katherine Heiny, "How to Make the Wrong Impression."  Another fine story -
upbeat, hip, and oh so '90's.

I'm glad for the New New Yorker.  Hail Tina Brown, she's finally put order
into that infernally traditional magazine.

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Start strong, end strong, and look for opportunities in the middle."
                              -S. O'Nan

Sung J. Woo, Secretary of The International Gridlocker Society

emzx@CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: maverick@fir.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Literature Students/Small World
Date: 16 Oct 1992 19:44:48 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: fir.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <16OCT199209415706@portal.lasc.lockheed.com>, le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel) writes:
|> 
|> [I wrote:]
|> >Perhaps my basic disagreement with you is that I don't know
|> >how to distinguish my intellectual pleasures from any other
|> >kind.  
|> 
|> Oh yes you do.  We all do.  Firstly, think of when you were
|> a little kid and none of your pleasures were intellectual.

When was that?  I realize it must seem that I'm playing
dumb, but despite your insistence on calling experience A
"intellectual" and experience B "experiential" (really,
this word has a T), I can't tell what your criteria are.
Reading a book for a story is non-intellectual?  This puzzles
me -- my cat is no stranger to pleasure, but from his point
of view there is one story and one story only that will prove
worth the telling, the one which begins "Vance stood near the
closet" and ends "Eddie ate till he exploded."  The little
children you call unintellectual are all far beyond this,
following stories full of events that could never happen to
them.  Maybe "intellectual" and "experiential" are good and
bad marks on some scale of sophistication?

|> >*Every* pleasure improves if I give my mind to it
|> >fully.  
|> 
|> So there IS already a pleasure there to be improved upon by
|> your intellectual effort, so it must be distinct from it.

Hmm, let me try this logic.  "If you open your eyes wider, you'll
see the picture better" -- thus there must have been something
non-visual in the earlier seeing!  No, this doesn't make sense.

|> >I was electrified the first time I saw
|> >the computation of the area under a segment of a parabola,
|> >and have never quite recovered that charge -- does this
|> >mean it wasn't an intellectual pleasure?
|> 
|> I would say no.  Being electrified is too spontaneous to be
|> intellectual.

Wait, I thought spontaneity wasn't the criterion! You said
responding to the "architecture" of music is intellectual --
but I can think of nothing more spontaneous than the (very
physical) frissons I have experienced at the masterly
architectural moves in my favorite music.

Just to bring this back to the main point where I think we
disagree: I agree fully that there are lots of different ways
for us to bring our brains to bear on whatever object.  A
model which knows of only two, and turns these two into
properties of the object, strikes me as simplistic.

	Vance
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: Paul Schroeder
Subject: John Gardner (both)
Organization: BNR
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 18:13:05 GMT

As I'm sure most of you are aware, there are (or were) two different well-known
novelists named John Gardner.  One was the late (killed in an 1982 motoring
accident) American of a considerable literary reputation whose work included
_Grendel_, _The Sunlight Dialogues_, and _Mickelsson's Ghost_ among others. 
The other, still living, is the British spy/thriller writer who is probably
best known for reviving James Bond, but who has written more serious spy novels
as well.  The reason for this post is to solicit feedback (separately, not
comparatively) on the merit of both these writers.

Some years back I read _Freddy's Book_ by the American JG and liked it quite
well;  however, being interested primarily in British writers, I never got
around to reading any of his other work.  In view of his allegorical approach
and apparent timelessness of themes, I have been tempted to read more of him. 
Accordingly, I would appreciate any opinions/recommendations on the writer and
his work.

Regarding the thriller writer JG, I am curious as to what others have thought
about his James Bond series.  I read all of Fleming's originals about 25 years
ago, but it is my recent reading of Kingsley Amis' Bond pastiche _Colonel Sun_,
written under the pseudonymn of Robert Markham, that has piqued my curiousity
about JG's Bond books.  I enjoyed _Colonel Sun_ quite a bit, but this could be
attributed to my liking for Amis.  Essentially, I'd be interested in reaction
to JG's Bond and comparisons to Fleming or Amis/Markham.

Please post to the net as I don't have an e-mail account at this time.

 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: evanh@sco.COM (Evan Hunt)
Subject: Re: Fictitious Fiction
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1992 23:36:55 GMT
Keywords: Morgenstern, Garp, Trout


nickles@sage.cc.purdue.edu (john a nickles) writes:
>As the subject line says, I am looking for books (or movies or plays) in
>which reference is made to a book, movie or play that does not really exist.

These are incredibly common in fantasy - I think Robert Aspirin started the
trend with his mock historical quotes at the beginning of the chapters. 
Many fantasy authors - Craig Gardner and Terry Pratchett come to mind - now
begin chapters with quotes from books supposedly written by the characters
of the book.

Others:

_I Capture the Castle_ by Dodie Smith has a lot about a fictitous book
called "Jacob Wrestling".

A major plot-point in _The Tightrope Walker_ by Dorothy Gilman is a
children's book called "The Maze in the Heart of the Castle." Gilman
actually went on to write this book, which was a big mistake.

_Night at the Vulcan_ by Ngaio Marsh uses a fictious play. Probably lots
of her books do, since many take place in the theatre. Simon Bretts'
Charles Paris mysteries are also a good source for fictitious plays and
movies. since the main character is an actor.

Interestingly, when a version of "Gaudy Night" was made for television, a
book called _The Search_, which exists, was changed into a fictitious (I
believe) book called _The Quest_. I assume a problem with getting 
permission.
-- 
Some of the new words in the American Heritage Dictionary:  Novelize, El Nino,
moonquake, ombudsperson, shock-jock, metafiction, hypertext, wellness, slam-
dunk, nerd, media event, colorize, preowned, CD/ROM, stress test, four-by-four,
prequel, waitron, infotainment, junk bond, supersaver, sound bite, HIV, wide-
bodied, stun gun, talking head, laptop, leveraged buyout, women's studies.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.railroad
From: takahash@ntmtv.UUCP (Alan Takahashi)
Subject: Re: Whats the title/Author of this story
Reply-To: takahash@ntmtv.UUCP (Alan Takahashi)
Organization: Northern Telecom Inc, Mountain View, CA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:47:44 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.205842.1055@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> (jmhodapp@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu) writes:
> "Matthew Geier" writes:
> >[Description of SF novel with Mars rail system deleted...]
>
>The was an Arthur C. Clarke which takes place on Mars just prior to
>the Solar War.  The protagonist is preteneding to go and study, but
>actually is there to determine which scientist is aiding the 'Outer Worlds'.
>All right, maybe it was Luna, and I cannot recall the title, but the beginning
>has the protagonist and another character riding an elevated train across the 
>lunar surface, and the sunset terminator line crosses their path (parallel)
>in so that they are in darkness riding a sea of light (paraphrase).  There
>aren't that many train scenes, but you can find the book with the 1st few pages, 
>and see if the station is mentioned.
>
>Jon jmhodapp@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu

While not the book that Mr. Geier is looking for, this book was pretty
good in its own right.  It's called _Earthlight_ and was pretty much
a spy thriller set on the moon.  Yes, Arthur C. Clarke was the
author.

As I recall, the 'train' at the beginning of the novel was a 
*monorail*, though...

-------------------------  NEW .SIG IN PROGRESS  -----------------------------
Alan Takahashi                          !        hplabs   amdahl
Northern Telecom Inc.                   !            XXX XXX
Mountain View, CA                       ! UUCP:  ...!{-----}!ntmtv!takahash
					!               |  
"When you need to knock on wood is when !              ames
  you realize the world's composed of   ! INTERNET:
  aluminum and vinyl." -- Flugg's Law   !   ntmtv!takahash@ames.arc.nasa.gov
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: heidi@wolf.net.com (Heidi Wolf)
Subject: The Marvelous Mr. E--- (Was: Re: Literature students)
Organization: N.E.T., Redwood City, CA
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:30:14 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.154116.10558@galileo.physics.arizona.edu> lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat) writes:
>
>Fiona Webster:
>>>Maybe what he's saying, Ron, when he says that he's not very average,
>>>is that he *is* very out of the ordinary.  Perhaps he means us to know
>>>that he is an extremely discontinuous point, a freak of Nature, a wonder
>>>so aberrant as to be called "monstrous," or perhaps a black swan, a
>>>_lusus_naturale_, a queer fish, a _rara_avis_, a prodigy, a miracle.
>>>Sometimes Mr. E-- may be, indeed, a veritable salvo of tasty strangeness!
>
>John Farrell:
>>You forgot to mention that he is a singularity, has no inverse, 
>>second derivative, fixed point or canonical form, causes floating 
>>point exceptions, is a lone wolf, is the black sheep of the family,
>>and is like a bandicoot on a burnt ridge.
>
>Indeed, for he is experienced in persiflage, can snip-snap, flytes with
>the best of them, flirts, flits, gossips, engages in bandiage, loves 
>repartee, and can deal in repartee from now till kingdom con, or at
>least until his thesaurus runs out.  An experience not to be missed.
>Hint:  plying him with coffee helps.


Kit Smart would add:

For he counteracts the powers of darkness by his electrical skin and 
glaring eyes.

For he counteracts the Devil, who is death, by brisking about the life.

For he has the subtlety and hissing of a serpent, which in goodness
he suppresses.

For he will not do destruction, if he is well fed, neither will he spit
without provocation.

For he is a mixture of gravity and waggery.

For he can fetch and carry, which is patience in employment.

For he can jump over a stick, which is patience upon proof positive.

For he can spraggle upon waggle at the word of command.

For, tho he cannot fly, he is an excellent clamberer.


(All of the above excerpts are from my 1984 copy of FOR I WILL CONSIDER
MY CAT JEOFFREY, as illustrated by Emily Arnold McCully with wonderful
squiggly line drawings of Jeoffrey, Christopher Smart his owner, and 
18th century London.)


Heidi Wolf, who if she meets another cat she will kiss her in kindness.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
Subject: Re: Not exaclty a repentance....
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 92 10:53:26 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Oct7.172021.22180@cmcl2.nyu.edu> cruz@lab.ultra.nyu.edu (Nancy Cruz) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.223331.5101@athena.cs.uga.edu> heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes:
>>
>>"18th Century Prose and Poetry" (to fulfill the requirement that I
>
>Uuuggghhhh!  I am glad your enjoying it.  I found that period the most
>pedantic, boring...
>

	Let's see.  Wasn't _The Expedition of Humphrey Clinker_
	written pre-1800?  Hilarious.

>| Nancy Cruz - a.k.a. "Tensha, the Icewoman" |   New York University    |

Roger Squires
rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: More Notes from the Decline
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<12683@optilink.UUCP>
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:07:26

In article <12683@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

   In article <1992Oct8.064638.2146@eff.org>, mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
   > In article <1992Oct7.165438.28710@athena.mit.edu> kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan) writes:
   # #	Very cute Mr. Maddox; however, are you merely extending Mr.
   # #Morris's comment from Republicans don't read to an assertion that they
   # #do but they only read piffle and twaddle? Let's see 48,886,097
   # #Americans identified themselves as Republican enough to vote for Bush
   # #in 1988. Do you think that among this group no one reads, or that they
   # #only read piffle and twaddle?
   # 
   # Well, we can say this much: since they voted for Bush, they clearly
   # have a high piffle-and-twaddle tolerance. We may surmise how they
   # acquired it.
   # 
   # Mike Godwin,    |"Liberty resides in the rights of that person

   I thought it was living under Jimmy Carter that caused it.

   The four years of Jimmy Carter's little fascists trying to run
   everyone's lives played a major role in radicalizing me.  ("Tell
   me, Ms. Claybrook, how does having a speedometer that only reads
   to 85 mph make me a safer driver?")
   -- 
   Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
   Lesson learned from Gov. Wilson's signing of AB 2601: if you don't get 
   your way, have a riot.  Next time, Gov. Wilson will cower appropriately.

My prediction is that if Clinton wins, the environmentalists will
get a lot of power and will overreach themselves to such an extent
that in the next election will get rid of their power for a long
time.  It won't get rid of them; after all the prohibitionists
lasted a long time after 1932.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca (Mike Morris)
Subject: Re: REWARD OF $US100 TO END FATWAH ON RUSHDIE
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 17:00:13 GMT

                                         Friday, the 16th of October, 1992

John Wojdylo writes:
  Any person who claims the right to freedom of speech is dutybound to
  fight for it. If the necessary means turn out to be war with Iran, then
  so be it.

Well, I'm not sure that I agree with the syllogism implied by your
first sentence. I'm not pacifist, John. At the moment, I would support armed
intervention (assuming it were accomplished with strong international
cooperation, and were preceded by a clear diplomatic ultimatum) in
Yugoslavia, Somalia, and East Timor. I would certainly support
strong and repeated diplomatic protest, even economic sanctions,
against Iran to force withdrawal of the fatwah as a human rights
violation. But going to war seems absurdly extreme to me.

[Digress: I think using military force is analogous to using
a police force within a jurisdictional boundary. Due process
is served in war by making the decision to go to war tied
to a formal Declaration of War, voted upon and debated by
a democratically representative legislature---which is why I get
particularly irked by the U.S. Congress' abdication of this responsibility
to the presidency ever since WWII. But war I think is
both a little like making an arrest and a little like criminal
punishment. Thus, I think it not right to go to war over every
wrong. There ought to be some scale of response appropriate
to the crime. Especially I think since the scale of possible
response includes now the potential annihilation of any or all of
human life on the planet. I'd call a policeman, who guns down
a shoplifter, a murderer. Doesn't mean I don't believe in property
rights.]

I, too, consider the fatwah a crime and an outrage, and I, too,
am willing to reward anyone bringing about an end to
the fatwah with $US100 out of my own pocket (over
and above, that is, any tax money the affair will have
already cost me), but I'd qualify this at least by insisting that
that the means used be rather different than the killing of lots
and lots of people.

But, anyway, what puzzles me is that I thought you didn't claim a
human right to free speech yourself. You are an enigma to me,
John. I think you put a lot of energy into epater le bourgouis
by taking these outraged moral stances aimed at demolishing nearly
everyone here, including as I recall Joyceans and their refusal to
use language to objective moral purpose. And yet I think you offer us
in return no clear construction, no consistently assailable assertion
of your own. Would you mind elaborating why it's right to kill
people who want to gun down Rushdie for having written what may
have been a book offensive to them, and yet also right to gun down
Hitler for having written _Mein Kampf_ (assuming that
this is the only thing one knows he has done)? Just what is your
conception of a right to free speech?

                     Mike Morris
             (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)