HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Kindred spirits (Vegans)
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:31:26 GMT


>>The following was  an article  Michael Traub  found  in the  Telegraph
>>Magazine on the weekend:
..
>>Uri Geller
>>
>>    'I  have  always  been  an  animal  lover and became vegan 15 years ago
>>    because  I  did not want to eat their corpses. Now even the smell of an
>>    egg  disgusts  me,' says the psychic. 'I'm also much fitter now. I'm 45
>>    years old but I have more stamina than I did in my 20s'

Tom Swiss remarks:

>     Uri Geller? Ulp! Yikes! How distressing to learn that I have something
>in common with such a charlatan. Ah well. An idea is not responsible
>for who believes it.

Yes indeed, it is quite distressing and worrisome that such
mountebanks and fourflushers get as must attention as
they do, even though they already been thoroughly exposed.
Oh well, the desire to believe often supplants our more
reliable and critical faculties in simply working with
the more prosaic facts at hand.

Two questions, the answer to the first is obvious but the second 
remains for me a profound mystery given the above citation ;-)

First, why doesn't Geller break a simple stick of blackboard 
chaulk or celery from a distance?
Second, why didn't Geller, as a vegan, bend steak knives instead
of dessert spoons?  :-)

                                       ted
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,talk.politics.animals
From: tp0x+@cs.cmu.edu (Thomas Price)
Subject: Re: AR Prisoners in need of your written support
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:47:09 GMT

Speaking as a vegetarian who a long time ago subscribed to Field & Stream ...

In article <1dbo2bINNa57@agate.berkeley.edu> spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope) writes:
>
> (lots of quotation deleted)
>
>The original point being debated was whether hunters
>were decimating wildlife populations.  
>
>The point appears to be true, in that the counter-arguments
>all seem to involve redefining who a "hunter" is in a
>very narrow sense.
>
>Something like:
>
>"Legal hunters, operating only in the very recent past, in a
>jurisdiction with strict laws protecting wildlife 
>populations are NOT decimating wildlife populations".
>
>This I'll go along with.  BFD.  It's basically tautological.


Steve, I think you are being obstinate. The point of the thread, as you
say in your own summary, is whether hunters are decimating wildlife
						       ^^^
populations. So the past *is* irrelevant. And it is reasonable for 
someone arguing with you to say "Look, hunters don't want any species to 
disappear, and I think the way to do that is to have strict laws -- when 
they are in place, hunters don't wipe out wildlife populations. Hunters have 
also shown a willingness to have their sport governed by such strict laws,
and to turn violators of those laws -- poachers -- into outcasts."

You, however, seem to let your distaste for any form of hunting -- a distaste
which is reasonable, and defensible, and honorable -- govern your response
to this argument. Unfortunately for you, that means that your contributions
to this argument are circular. You're not getting anywhere.

Tom

******************************************************************************
         Tom Price  |  tp0x@cs.cmu.edu  |  Simplicity, simplicity
******************************************************************************
 plutoniumsurveillanceterroristCIAassassinationIranContrawirefraudcryptology

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@serum.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Subject: Re: AR Prisoners in need of your written support
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 13:17:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.064649.28727@informix.com> proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts) writes:

>In article <148940012@hpindda.cup.hp.com> gph@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Paul Houtz) writes:
>>
>>Could someone please tell me why we are having a discussion about gun
>>legislation in rec.food.veg?
>
>It seems to be some sort of law of nature that once the subject of guns
>comes up in any shape or form, a lot of people feel an irrestistable urge
>to post a lot of stuff about how no-one is going to take away their
>Stinger missles, rifles, handguns, semi-automatics, tactical nukes, flame
>throwers, etc, not ever, until they pry them from their dead cold fingers,
>etc. It is clear that the pro-gun lobby watch a lot of very bad movies.

	All of which is entirely their right, but your polemic begs the
	question.  The reason the gun discussion is happening in r.f.v.
	is that posters don't check the "Newsgroups:" line, and never
	bother to fill in the "Followup-To:" line, so something cross-
	posted to a number of groups stays there forever.

	Posters, please take note: CHECK THE HEADER FOR ACCURACY BEFORE YOU
	POST!  And, out of simple courtesy, limit your posts to the proper
	newsgroup.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: ph@pencom.com (Patrick Hester)
Subject: The Most Important (tm) Poster + recipe
Reply-To: ph@pencom.com
Organization: Pencom Systems Incorporated
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:54:31 GMT

The most important poster to rec.food.veg is whoever posts the next
excellent recipe I've never tried before.

Here's my attempt to become YOUR most important poster...

Cut a large potato into 3/4 inch chunks.
Steam until almost cooked thru, but not squishy.
meanwhile use a little oil to fry up:
	1 chopped up small onion (any color)
	1/2 chopped up green and/or red pepper
	2 cloves minced garlic
	1 sliced stalk of celery
fry in:
	5-10 thickly sliced mushrooms
	some broccoli, chopped up small
Now add the potato and stir fry for a while.
Add a handful of frozen corn and a handful of frozen peas.
Optionally add:
	a shot or two of wine
	some paprika
	some ground cumin
	any other extra veggies which you think would go well
	your favorite other spices
Cover and simmer until the frozen stuff gets hot.
Serve with lots of home made salsa
This recipe serves up to two depending how big a pig you are.
I eat the whole thing  ( *(oo)* )
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Conclusions about Ted Altar
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:14:45 GMT

Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:

[...]
> To single out a handful of
>posters as the "most important" is to degrade the role played by the
>many other posters to this newsgroup.
[...]

I wholeheartedly agree with this.  This good conference is
being maintained by many good people, certainly not just
one, nor is anyone ever the "single" most important poster.

May I also remark in passing that it is indeed regrettable that 
a need to defend somebody due to someone else's denouncement
should ever have been required in the first place.

Just to help put things into perspective, I am guessing
that Abhay's well-intentioned (and I must confess, appreciated),
defense of my person was motivated by a concern that I or anyone
else, don't get discouraged by the few who sometimes lapse into
rudeness and mean-spirited remarks.  In fact, I am here solely
due to Abhay's encouragement and good advice to not let the few
destructive remarks that sometimes occur to deter one from 
participating in a more constructive manner.  This is only
to explain Abhay's over-generous and misplaced generalization,
not to justify it.

Now, maybe we all return to the more important business at hand!

I myself try to post what in turn I would like to see from
others, which for me is discursive dialogue and information
about the ethical/ecological advantages that might pertain to
vegetarianism, nutritional information germaine to being or
becoming a vegetarianism, and finally, some recipes/cooking
advice.   Ok, if it is recipes you formost want Tom, then start
start posting; I've done my share commensurate with my interests
(maybe too much)     :-)   ;-) 

                                               ted
From: tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: What is nutritional yeast?
Date: 6 Nov 92 17:42:07 GMT


Nutritional yeast is probably my favorite and most used ingredient!
I'm not entirely sure that it naturally contains B-12.  I was reading
the back "nutrition" notes in the New Farm Vegetarian Cookbook (every
other recipe uses nut. yeast) and they said that it is added in some
brands, but that it does not normally contain in.  Red Star Nut. Yeast
does contain B-12, and many stores that carry it, carry this brand.  

Since I don't eat cheese, nutritional yeast tends to impart a very
mild cheesy flavor.  It has a very rich flavor on its own.  One word
of caution.  Don't EVER sniff or try to breath in raw nutritional
yeast.  You'll be very sorry.  When I had to fill up the nutritional
yeast bulk bin in my health food store, I used to have to fill it up
holding my breath, then take a couple steps away to breath.  

No vegan or culturally minded vegetarian kitchen should be without a
large crock of nutritional yeast!

--
Tara McDermott                                  tara@starburst.umd.edu

Sweet and sweet is their poisoned note, the little snakes' of silver throat,
in mossy skulls that nest and lie, ever singing "die, oh! die."
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: claudiak@i88.isc.com (Claudia Kale (STG))
Subject: Re: Lurking Omnivores, The Myth of Traub, and The List
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:09:37 GMT

In article <853@smith.CHI.IL.US> leah@smith.UUCP (L.A.Z. Smith) writes:
>In article <1992Oct25.205452.6768@cgrg.ohio-state.edu> 

[quotes from Leslie Bishko and Pat Churchill deleted]
>
>Despite being called rec.FOOD.veg, this group seems more like
>talk.politics.vegetarian.
>
>Is there some other, more appropriate group where those of us interested
>in discussing vegetarian food, recipes and cooking techniques may do so
>without fear of flames over what else we may or may not eat?
>
>---
>LAZSmith  leah@smith.chi.il.us

As I recall, there was some discussion early this past
summer concerning the establishment of rec.food.veg.recipes; it
appears that nothing has come of it however.

Leah, you might want to try rec.food.cooking - the kind participants
over there seem to be quite tolerant and discussion topics run the
gamut; flames, on the rare occasion when I see one, seem to kept on
"low". I read both groups and find the sniping which goes on over
here to be, umm, unique. Of course, if you get squeamish seeing
recipes and discussions involving animal products, this may not
suit your book. But then again, as with all newsgroups, you can
always skip the articles which don't interest you.

Cheers,
Claudia                                claudiak@i88.isc.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: aathanas@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu (Andreas Athanasiades)
Subject: CAROB PRODUCTS
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 17:20:07 GMT

 Does anybody know any products around the market
 that are made of caro ?

 I also want some names of companies thamake these
 kind of products.
From: vprasad@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Kindred spirits (Vegans)
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:31:28 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

avi@seal.imagen.com writes:
> 
>> How distressing to learn that I have something
>>in common with such a charlatan 
> 
>    uh, well, you also have in common the following:
>    eyes, ears, hands, legs, (Not sure about brain, though...)

	Reminds me of a true incident from my undergraduate days, related to
	me by my friend, who is an Elec. Engg. major. There was this EE 
	prof., who was invited to participate in a hostel-day event. While
	all the music and dances were going on the stage, a few students
	started talking to him about this and that - the conversation somehow
	turned towards the subject of partition (of India, during 
	independence). One hot blooded student was quite vocally criticizing
	Mahatma Gandhi, for conceding the demand of Jinnah to form Pakistan
	and dividing India; in his rashness, he called Gandhi "spineless",
	or something like that. The professor, who is an ardent admirer of
	Gandhi, snapped:

	"Just because you have an ass-hole in common with Gandhi, does not
	mean that you have the right to judge him"

	The student immediately shut his mouth.

    
>    The point being, of course, that his dietary choices have NOTHING to do
>    with him being or not being a charlatan.  
>    Quick examples of 2 famous vegetarians: Adolf Hitler & Mahatma Ghandi...
                                                                    ~~~~~~~~

	This is not a flame, just a plea - the correct spelling is "Gandhi"
	and NOT "Ghandi" - it just grieves me to see the name of this great
	man mis-spelt. I have seen far too many people spell it this way, 
	which makes me suspect that it is not just a typographical error.

	Also, Adolf Hitler was not a vegetarian - he liked sausages and 
	apparently, they were a regular part of his diet.

	Thanks,

	Siva Prasad.				vprasad@uofto2.utoledo.edu
From: charlesv@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Charles van Duren)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Is Respect For Nature Enough?
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:30:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: aupair.charlesv.721333802

georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:

#In article <altar.721157294@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
#>
#>IS RESPECT" FOR NATURE ENOUGH FOR A VEGETARIAN OR ECOLOGICAL
#>ETHIC?

#     ( over 100 lines of text deleted)

#Ted, it is unclear why you persist in posting in a vegetarians' newsgroup
#these lengthy articles on ethics, the environment, animal rights, and
#whatever.

#My interest in vegetarianism is restricted to its health benefits and
#the fact that not eating meat reduces my grocery bill. Other participants
#feel likewise. At least this was true for the duration of your exile,
#motivated by your fear of Steve Dyer and others who corrected your
#misleading medical assertions.

George is now the arbiter of what is appropriate in this group, as well as
being a medical expert.

Environmental and ethical questions are part of _my_ interest in
vegetarianism. If they aren't yours, just press 'n'.

CvD
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: susanc@helix.nih.gov (Susan Chacko)
Subject: Re: Conclusions about Ted Altar
Reply-To: susanc@helix.nih.gov (Susan Chacko)
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:00:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.070847.13173@abo.fi>, abulsari@aton.abo.fi writes:
|> The result of last several postings is a consensus - 
|> 
|> So Ted, please keep posting. People like everything you post,
|> and we all look forward to reading your postings.
|> 
|> We should be grateful to him for being the single most
|> important source of informative postings on r.f.v. It is
|> to a good extent because of him and Ferrell Wheeler and
|> Michael Traub that people want to read this newsgroup.
|> 

Must be nice to be so confident that you speak for "everyone". 
It's obvious that you think Ted Altar and Michael Traub post
wonderful information, which opinion you're welcome to, but 
this  relentless deification of them is most irritating. You don't 
speak for everyone, and I for one am much less likely to read 
the ethical threads because I now expect to see yet another 
pompous pronouncement by you about what "everyone" thinks. 
Nor is it your business to decide who "counts" and who doesn't.
Nor do I like being told that I "should be grateful to" anyone.  
This is rec.food.veg, not alt.fan.anyone, and no one is the most 
important poster here. Even the infamous "LIst of posters on 
r.f.v", which claims to be people's descriptions of themselves, 
contains such obvious personal perspectives such as 
"Michael Traub: the single most important..." 

I would have preferred to ignore your post, but I get the feeling
that you take lack of opposition as confirmation of your
own particular views. If we could stay with recipes, discussions
of vegetarianism, and even ethical threads, I'd be most pleased.

Susan.
--
Bldg 2, Rm 316, NIDDK, NIH, Bethesda, MD 20892
(301) 496-4295 (off)
(301) 496-0201 (fax)
From: todd@refrig.dixie.com (Todd H.)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,talk.politics.animals
Subject: Re: California Condor and hunters
Date: 6 Nov 92 13:33:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: refrig.1992Nov06.133351.4097
Organization: the Bear Creek Tinkerer's Society and Social Club

spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope) writes:

>Todd writes:

>Wrong, poachers ARE hunters.  Todd, you are out to lunch
>on this one.

>The fact is hunters, acting illegally, have shot down condors
>within the last couple decades.  They were poaching when they
>were shooting condors, certainly.   None of us on this newsfeed
>approve of this, certainly.  

>The attitude of Todd and the other hunters on this point 
>seems to be that of "don't blame me, don't blame thee,
>blame the poacher behind the tree..."

Steve, who instead of being out to lunch, is just showing off how well the
Animal Rights people can misuse whatever data they can get thier hands on.

I guess now we should oppose teaching because I heard of a teacher who had
her husband killed.  Therefore, given the 'poacher=hunter' reasoning of
Steve, now we can see that obviously 'teacher=murderer'.  Help cut down on
the number of murders, Steve - ban teaching.

-- 
Todd++;
------------------
todd@refrig.dixie.com
From: jeffrey.burrows@almac.co.uk
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: veget. beyond food
Date: 14 Nov 92 01:29:24 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: ALMAC BBS Ltd

I'm ovo-lacto-veg, and am quite used to checking food packets, avoiding
Worcestershire sauce and the like. I was recently prompted to think a
little more by comments on organic farming and the use of animal
products. I think people who see things in black and white (or perhaps
black and green) may have problems in areas such as these.

Anyhow, the other issue which recently came to mind was the use of
animal products in medicine. I know people have different attitudes
towards leather shoes, and I'd like to hear anyone's opinions on the
latter - I've formed no definite ones of my own yet.

Jey

bk848@cleveland.freenet.edu
100010.2007@compuserve.com
jeffrey.burrows@almac.co.uk
--
ALMAC BBS Ltd. 0324-665371
Dos based USENET access,  call for details!
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: robert@unlv.edu (Robert Cray)
Subject: Re: Godhead or Meathead?
Organization: University of Nevada, Las Vegas
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 00:13:19 GMT

In article <altar.720901243@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
>Peter Olin cites:
>> 2. Omnivorous diets (any sort of food) make the best use of complex
>>natural systems; that we should eat from what is edible, at any level
>>(except for other people in most circumstances, and under most laws!)
>
>Then by all means we should be eating insects and grubs.  Maybe
>we should also recycle our deceased bodies for animal feed.
>I think you might agree.

I know a Chinese person who likes wharf roaches.  Not eating insects
is just a cultural thing, with all the other things people eat like
salmon eggs (or regular eggs for that matter), liver, etc. insects are
not all that unusual.  If you are going to eat any part of an animal,
eating all of it is the ecologically sound thing to do.

I really don't understand the evangelism practiced by some vegetarians.
It seems a much better approach is just be a vegetarian and not
constantly whine about how evil the omnivores are.  I suspect you
will get alot more converts that way, as they see that it is a healthy
lifestile practiced by normal people.

I must admit that I've been given plenty of grief by my meat eating friends
since I've become a vegetarian, so perhaps they deserve some grief in
return...

				--robert
--
robert@cs.unlv.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,talk.politics.animals
From: achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jeff Achenbach)
Subject: Re: AR Prisoners in need of your written support
Organization: TI Semiconductor Process and Design Center
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:09:03 GMT

In article <1dbo2bINNa57@agate.berkeley.edu> spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope) writes:
>(Scott Wood - EVENSONG) writes:
>
>>spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope) writes:
>>
>>`The government programs to erdicate mountain lions consisted
>>`of HUNTING them for a bounty.
>>
>>Market hunters - not sport, meat OR recreational hunters (ie the ones that I
>>see being targeted by AR-head groups)
>>
>>`"poaching" is also a form of HUNTING.
>>
>>Correction.  "poaching" is a form of ILLEGAL hunting.  In that context I
>>will accept the statement.
>
>The original point being debated was whether hunters
>were decimating wildlife populations.  
>
>The point appears to be true, in that the counter-arguments
>all seem to involve redefining who a "hunter" is in a
>very narrow sense.
>
>Something like:
>
>"Legal hunters, operating only in the very recent past, in a
>jurisdiction with strict laws protecting wildlife 
>populations are NOT decimating wildlife populations".
>
>This I'll go along with.  BFD.  It's basically tautological.
>

Notice the use of past and present tense? Are you concerned with punishing
present day legal hunters for transgressions of their (and probably your)
ancestors? By the same logic, all the white folks should be packing their
bags and leaving. Let's give the western hemishere back to it's original
rightful owners. And don't forget to reimburse (with interest) all those
whose ancestors were forced to work as slaves. We can't change the past,
but we can learn from it. Legitimate hunters are concerned with maintaining
viable wildlife populations in order to be able to continue hunting.
   Illegal hunters (poachers) are criminals and should be treated
as such. Unfortunately our criminal justice system seems to take their 
crimes a bit too lightly for my tastes, and the only ones I hear raising
hell about it are the hunters. 
   If we are talking about the USA here, name a place that doesn't have 
strict laws protecting wildlife populations.

Jeff Achenbach
From: mkay@sequent.com (Mary Kay Petersen)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Freezing Tofu
Date: 10 Nov 92 02:03:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Nov10.020311.12539
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.

coleman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michele Coleman) writes:

>In article <1992Nov7.005611.10616@sequent.com> mkay@sequent.com (Mary Kay Petersen) writes:
>>                                       It works best if you remove
>>the tofu from the water it is packed in then put it in a freezer
>>bag.  I let the tofu thaw overnight in the refrigerator.  I press
>>the tofu to remove as much water as possible by wrapping it in a
>>couple of paper towels and putting it between two plates weighted 
>>down with some heavy (like a canister of flour) for 1/2 hour.

>Do you drain the water, freeze, thaw, then press?
>Or drain & press, freeze, then thaw?

>I really want to get this right, because my last attempts at freezing
>tofu haven't worked out very well, but I like that frozen-tofu texture.


>--Michele Coleman

I drain the water, freeze, thaw, then press.
---

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/ / /  / \__(_/_/_/	beaverton, or  97006-6063	|     |
mary kay petersen/	mkay@sequent.com 		+-----+
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Newsgroups: rec.food.veg