HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fred@wrs.com (Fred Kline)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Ram Dass
Date: 29 Aug 92 21:44:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: cco.1992Aug29.214424.29721
Organization: ----
Originator: toshi@sandman

Does anyone know if Ram Dass will be speaking
in the US this fall or winter?


Fred Kline  fred@wrs.com
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: sparta!asanders@uunet.uu.net (Alan Sanders)
Subject: Re: More BS about Death
Originator: toshi@sandman
Organization: ----
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 17:43:11 GMT

| If it brings some enjoyment to discuss metaphysics, 
| which ultimately has little to do with living or dying, 
| then that's cool.  
			-Lorenzo Farris

Truly, if people like to "wiseacre" (as Gurdjieff put it) about
things that humans know next to nothing about, that's fine.
It is certainly no worse than watching television! But when
people invoke scriptures, or otherwise attempt to put the seal
of Authority on their speculative (and possibly wish-fulfilling)
utterances, then the search for Truth, which (to my way of thinking, 
at least) ought to be the legitimate aim of all spiritual studies 
and practices, becomes seriously compromised, or at least confused. 
There is no better subject than Death to illustrate the difference.

| If everything you do is as if it was your last act on earth, 
| then you have lived.

Amen, brother!

     -Alan
From: RAHLFS@BEATE.RZ.FH-ULM.DE (RZ D. Rahlfs)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Meditation and smoking
Date: 3 Sep 92 13:22:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Sep4.054146.1009
Organization: FACHHOCHSCHULE ULM (GERMANY)

Who is/has been a smoker and meditates? Is smoking an impediment for
good meditation?

--
RAHLFS@BEATE.RZ.FH-ULM.DE (RZ D. Rahlfs)
From: fred@wrs.com (Fred Kline)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Share truth
Date: 29 Aug 92 02:17:48 GMT
Organization: ----
Originator: toshi@sandman

Hi All,

I am new to the spiritual path, and I have just
found this news group. I have been practicing
meditation and reading the "Gospel of Rama Krishna"
for about a month now.

My life is changing and I have a million questions.
Well not really a million, but I am confused about
various things that I am experiencing.

If anyone has the time to correspond via email, I would
appreciate it. 

thanks,

Fred Kline  fred@wrs.com
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Enlightened Beings
Date: 1 Sep 92 09:05:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Sep1.215836.18328
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista

In article <1992Sep1.010919.10259@qiclab.scn.rain.com> jrk@information-
systems.east-anglia.ac.uk (Richard Kennaway) writes:

   >What is the sound of a tree, falling in the forest when no-one is there to
   >hear?

  That one is easy! For some reason it does not appear to be generally
known, but the sound of a tree falling in the forest when no one is there
to here is

     Kwangooo-thunk!
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: raj@globe1.att.com (Rajendra P Sharma)
Subject: Re: Enlightened Beings
Originator: toshi@sandman
Organization: ----
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 02:15:13 GMT


Alan writes:

> I don't get it. Kristian asks the question, then answers it???


	It's like an ocean being playful.
	
	
---raj
From: darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Would like info on Kundalini
Date: 2 Sep 92 23:03:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Sep3.084046.22581
Organization: University of California, Davis

Would some knowledgeable person please post or email basic (and if
possible, not-so-basic) information about Kundalini?  This can include
references to good reading material about Kundalini as a goddess persona,
chakras, and Kundalini Yoga as well. I think this may be important for
me.  Thanks very much in advance for all replies.

Richard
From: eradm@wbst845e.xerox.com (Erik Radmall)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Buddha's "No Soul" theory.
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:18:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Sep1.220656.19000
Organization: ----

I am wondering a lot about the "No Soul" theory in Buddhism. I can accept
almost all other Buddhist tenets except that one. Maybe I just don't
understand it clearly enough. If existence is composed of the "5 aggregates"
and is a "dependent arising", then why the need to experience Nirvana? If
Nirvana is the cessation of all sensation - even though Buddha said it is
not a nihilistic thing, I just don't see how it could be other than that.
It would seem to be senseless to annihialate your own consciousness for
some undefined end. Personally, I don't see what I stand to gain by
"entering the Stream". If anyone has opinions on this, please share them, this
is a real bone in my throat.

Thank You,
Erik.
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: mw@gandalf.ki.fht-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz)
Subject: Re: More BS about Death
Originator: toshi@sandman
Organization: Fachhochschule fuer Technik Mannheim
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 17:39:46 GMT

Lorenzo Farris <farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu> wrote:
: If it brings some enjoyment to discuss metaphysics, which ultimately has
: little to do with living or dying, then that's cool.
Thanks, and just a (very small!) criticism to a beautyful article:
When you are enjoying discussions about metaphysics, this is also life.
The distinction between abstract and concrete is still abstract,
though happening concretely.

: For all this metaphysical speculation, a rational person must recognize that
: you can't know what happens when you die.
Even if you could know it [I don't] - there's still the actual experience left.
Having drunken orange juice is not the same as the taste of orange juice.

: Like I can't KNOW anything, really.
Do you know that for sure? :-)

: If everything you do is as if it was your last act on earth,
     ====================              =============
: then you have lived.
                ====

  8-)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Wachowitz, mw@gandalf.ki.fht-mannheim.de, 75742@novell1.rz.fht-mannheim.de
  *  wonder everyday    *    nothing in particular    *    all is special  *
From: fstawit@icomp01.lerc.nasa.gov (Tawit Chitsomboon)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Why meditate?
Date: 4 Sep 92 03:18:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Sep4.055216.1991
Organization: Institute for Computational Mechanics in Propulsion

In article <1992Sep3.084012.22419@qiclab.scn.rain.com> 
farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris) writes:
>.....................X
>For anyone that wants to meditate, I think that if it's not fun, you
>just won't keep with it.  It's that simple.  And if it's not fun,
>whatever you are doing is not right.  Either you're doing it wrong, or
>this just isn't the way for you.  There is no more accurate indicator
>for correct spiritual practise than happiness.  

Allow me to disagree.

Meditation can be painful, nuetral, or happy. The most dangerous form
,IMO, is a happy meditation. This is because you'll attach to the
happiness and refuse to move ahead. This is infact, one of the greatest
traps in Vipassana (insight) meditation in the buddhist tradition.

A proper attitude should be to reflect upon the happiness, see the
impermanent processes of happiness and finally let go of it. The same
reflection should be used for the case of painful and neutral meditation.

Many a sage had fell deep down into the hell of happiness while in
deep meditation, and were deluded into believing that they had attained
something lofty.

-Tawit

------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm smart enough to know that I'm stupid.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jack Carroll <SECBH@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
Subject:      Apology to Mr. Kish
Originator: toshi@sandman
Organization: ----
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 02:20:50 GMT


In article <1992Aug29.022057.24070@cco.caltech.edu>,
kish@titania.rutgers.edu (Kish) writes:

>How can you cop such an attitude about quoting others and then quote
>from Ying-an for support ?!?  As a friend of mine was fond of saying in
>very tongue in cheek fashion, "I quote others to better express myself!".
>I think he was quoting this from someone else, but I can't remember who:)

I have no all-encompassing objection to quoting other people.  I am not
sure how you arrived at that misunderstanding.  However, in areas
of commonplace of human activity (death in this case) it seems very
bizarre when quotations are the message.

Your friend's remark is an excellent example of a figure of speech called
an Irish Bull -- the definition of which is: An Irish Bull is like any
other bull, except that it is pregnant.

>Speculating about death and its consequences may or may not be born froma
>desire to avoid the issue.

No, of course not.  Though alongside what seems to me to be a paucity of
comparable focus on dying, I wonder.

>Even where this is not true, I think lofty
>speculation is still better than
>avoiding the issue altogether, something
>many people are more than happy to do.

Yes, relative to avoidance, I would agree.

What was pointed out to me in e-mail was that my own life experiences
and level of voluntary involvement with people who are terminally ill
gives me a very skewed viewpoint and one which is not appropriate to
persons in other circumstances.  Not having mentioned it at all is
probably the strongest indication of how out of touch this has made me.

>> Perhaps at the bottom of my puzzlement is the fact that none of
>> those who speak so loftily about post-death seems to have ever
>> seen that the stork is attracted to the worms and
>> comes back to get us.

>Since you have so generously offered us the stork-and-worms model,
>I don't feel embarrassed to say that mindfulness practice
>is the most gentle and sane way I've found to look death in the eye.

My apologies for the charnelhouse humor.  I do hospice work and the
"stork and worms model" was an uncredited observation from a patient
named Mark Bovee.  (There you are, Mark, your name in print.)

As to mindfulness practice - I do it, as do some of the other workers,
as do a few patients.  And vipassana as well.  Given the circumstances,
the minutia of getting dead is probably preponderant.

Jack Carroll
From: fstawit@.lerc.nasa.gov (Tawit Chitsomboon)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Enlightened Beings
Date: 2 Sep 92 01:41:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Sep3.083541.21990
Organization: Institute for Computational Mechanics in Propulsion

Here're 2 Q&As from 2 buddhist monks in Thailand:
[Things in brackets are my comments]

Someone asked (the late) Ven. Grandfather (Luang-Pu) Dool Atulo:

Q: Do you have any suffering thesedays?
A: Yes, I do. But I don't take it personally.

Someone asked Buddhadasa Bhikkhu:

Q: Do you have any suffering thesedays?

A: I must say, no. But if I say so, it'll be bragging [Oop! :)
he used the word "to show off Utarimanussadhamma" which, i believe,
is recorded in the Vinaya (discipline)] 
[The reason for saying 'no' is] Because I don't crave for anything,
don't want anything that will cause a problem. I fear those
cravings ; so I don't dare to crave because it'll cause sufferings,
or cause problems. But to say that one doesn't crave for anything
is equivalent to saying that one is enlightened, that is, the cessation
of craving. Anyone speaking like that is announcing oneself to be an
arahat (enlightened one). So, we [he used 'we'] don't want to say like
that because we believe there might be other forms of craving that we
have never experienced; they might surface someday. If they surfaced, it
would mean suffering still exists. If they don't surface until death, it'll
be the end -- It'll be good, that's all. [So, I am] Careful not to do things
by craving. The work that I'm doing right now, I am also careful not to
do it by craving; but by reasons of wisdom for the sake of 
the world.

[I hope my translation from Thai language accurately represents the
true intentions of the above mentioned monks.
It's considered polite in Thailand to ask 'Do you have any suffering?'
It really translates as 'Are you enlightened?']

-Tawit [fstawit@icomp01.lerc.nasa.gov]

------------------------------------------------------------------------
How many capable light bulbs does it take to change a man?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: plains!sivaram@uunet.UU.NET (Sivaram Hariharan )
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: On death
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:09:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Sep3.083844.22178
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

I cannot agree more with Tawit on his views on death. 
Modern science is increasingly coming to the conclusion
that living organisms are mere biochemical systems out
of equilibruim with the Universe and coming to thermodynamic
equilibrium on their death. 

Even thought is nothing but the play of the neurotrasmitters
in the brain. The concept of the individual soul is becoming
more and more moot and so also the concept of life after
death. Whether non-living matter, which be become on death,
has any awareness of existance is a question yet to be
answered by science.  

We have one life to live and one life for realization of
the Creator of this Universe.

Our existance as human beings is a gift of probablity.

S.H
Tat Tvam Asi
From: island!green@uunet.UU.NET (Robert Greenstein)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Enlightened Beings
Keywords: Re: Enlightened Beings
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:01:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Sep1.220052.18682
Organization: Strawman Incorporated

In article <1992Aug29.214511.29778@cco.caltech.edu> tucker@mitre.org (William Tucker) writes:
>I count only two posts by people speaking of enlightened beings.
>Aren't there any more? Please no messages about what enlightenment 
>means.............feel free to use YOUR OWN opinion, I will respect
>that as valid. Does this mean that there are no elightened beings 
>with computers?  ;-)

I'm enlightened. Please send money. Large bills are preferable.

Thank you.
-- 
******************************************************************************
Robert Greenstein           What the fool cannot learn he laughs at, thinking
green@island.com            that by his laughter he shows superiority instead
                            of latent idiocy - M. Corelli
From: wong@rkna50.riken.go.jp (Wong Weng Fai)
Subject: Re: On death
Organization: ----
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 00:47:19 GMT

Hi, 
   jdavis@netlink.cts.com (James Davis) wrote ...

>Some are afraid to live forever.  It would mean they are responsible
>for all they have done.

   For any one such person, I can name you another who had tried really hard
"to live forever" and another several thousands who are simply afraid of
dying.

W.F. Wong.
From: radams@cerritos.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: More (response to Tagi) About Death
Date: 1 Sep 92 01:14:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Sep1.215916.18439
Organization: Cerritos College, Norwalk CA

In article <1992Aug31.021905.14132@cco.caltech.edu>, 
cup.portal.com!Tagi%portal@uunet.uu.net writes:
> 
> Death is change.
> We always die.
> Fear arises from a desire to maintain a 'self' which isn't real, does
> not change.
> 
This is true. The real fear is loosing the 'self' or ego which is not real.
Death is a gift. When the body grows old and frail, death comes to relieve
us from that old bag of flesh and bones. Actually I really feel we are
meant to live in health all our life and death should come as a relatively
painless cessation of breath and heartbeat, perhaps in our sleep or a
conscious exit from our bodies as accomplished yogis do but for most of us,
death comes after long and painful illness, and I think its the prolonged
pain and suffering that people are afraid of too which they associate with
death and dying. I would recommend some of the books of Deepak Chopra on
the subject of whether or not perfect health can be possible in our lives
and on the body-mind connection regarding health (see also books by Norman
Cousins) as I feel that quality of life is improved and fear of prolonged
illness reduced when one understands the mind-body connection regarding
health and illness  and then this can reduce much of the anxiety of growing
older and approaching death.

> 'Souls' and 'future lives' are images which serve our security well, yet
> which are no more truths than 'void' and 'ends'.
> 
Yes but they are no less true than you sitting at your computer reading this
post and me having written it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	Roger Adams
	radams@cerritos.edu               To those in whom love dwells,
	Cerritos College                  the whole world is one family.
	11110 Alondra Blvd                             A Hindu Proverb
        Norwalk, California 90650
	USA        		          292 Dwapara :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: oak@mwilliams.eche.ualberta.ca
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: The spiritual master
Date: 29 Aug 92 21:46:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: cco.1992Aug29.214637.29975
Organization: ----
Originator: toshi@sandman

THE SPIRITUAL MASTER AS A MANIFESTATION OR REPRESENTATIVE OF KRISHNA, THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD
 
	acharyam mam vijaniyan
	navamanyeta karhicit
	na martya-buddhyasuyeta
	sarva-devamayo guruh
 
One should know the 'acharya' as Myself (Krishna) and never disrespect him in any way.  One should not envy him, thinking him an ordinary man, for he is the representative of all the demigods.
 
						( Bhagvatam 11.17.27 )
 
	guru krishna-rupa hana sastrera pramane
	guru-rupe krishna kripa karena bhakta-gane
 
According to the deliberate opinion of all revealed scriptures, the spiritual master is nondifferent form Krishna.  Lord Krishna in the form of the spiritual master delivers His devotees.
 
				( Chaitanya Charitamruta Adilila 1.45 )
 
Comments/ questions....corrections welcome.
 
Nilesh		oak@mwilliams.eche.ualberta.ca
---------------------------------------------------------------------
hare krishna hare krisna krishna krishna hare hare
hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: tt@wag.caltech.edu (Toshi Takeuchi)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: test
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:29:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: cco.1992Aug28.172925.9998
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA

Test
From: jdavis@netlink.cts.com (James Davis)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: On death
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:44:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Sep1.215955.18525
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

wong@rkna50.riken.go.jp (Wong Weng Fai) writes:

> Hi, 
>    jdavis@netlink.cts.com (James Davis) wrote ...
> 
> >Some are afraid to live forever.  It would mean they are responsible
> >for all they have done.
> 
>    For any one such person, I can name you another who had tried really hard
> "to live forever" and another several thousands who are simply afraid of
> dying.
> 
> W.F. Wong.

Sure, but I was thinking of the less obvious and more interesting case.

A realted thought:  we sometimes fear good sense because it may
prove us guilty.

Yours in guilt,
Jim  :)

--                    
INTERNET:  jdavis@netlink.cts.com (James Davis)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!jdavis
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: jdavis@netlink.cts.com (James Davis)
Subject: Death
Originator: toshi@sandman
Organization: ----
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 17:41:16 GMT

Some are afraid to live forever.  It would mean they are responsible
for all they have done.

--                    
INTERNET:  jdavis@netlink.cts.com (James Davis)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!jdavis
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
From: kish@titania.rutgers.edu (Kish)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: needed: translation of Tara mantra.
Date: 29 Aug 92 02:18:35 GMT
Organization: ----
Originator: toshi@sandman


In article <1992Aug18.000258.20397@qiclab.scn.rain.com>, walsha@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com writes:
> does anyone know the literal meaning of the words of the 
> Tara mantra: OM TARE TUTTARE TURE SOHA?
> 
> many thanks for any info.
> 
>    ando

The following is from "Meditations on the Lower Tantras", which is culled
from writings of the II, V, VII, XIII Dalai Lamas.  It is published by
the Library of Tibetan Works and Archives, but it doesn't seem to have and
ISBN #, I guess since it was actually printed in New Delhi.  I purchased mine 
at the Office of Tibet in NYC.  
	On page 97, in the section which discusses various Tara practices,
the VII Dalai Lama says:

	TARE means freedom from samsara

	TUTTARE means freedom from the eight terrors

	TURE means freedom from illness

Om (Aum) seems to have many translations. Among them include 1) the primordial 
sound or vibration, or 2) "things-as-they-are", or ???  Maybe some of the 
other readers can help out here ?  With respect to SOHA, I'm not familiar with 
this term and it doesn't seem to be mentioned in the text I'm quoting from 
here.  Perhaps you meant SVAHA ??  Somewhere along the line, I learned/read 
that SVAHA was sort of like AMEN or so-be-it.  My Sanskrit is far from 
adequate - perhaps someone else can help ?  Of course, there is always 
Monier-Williams or whatever your favorite Sanskrit-English lexicon happens 
to be.

Hope this helps,
-Bill
-- 

PHONE: (908) 932-5026
UUCP : {ames,att,harvard}!uunet!rutgers!jove.rutgers.edu!kish
INTERNET: kish@jove.rutgers.edu