HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
Subject: Jared Diamond's _The Third Chimpanzee_
Distribution: world
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 05:10:00 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <C17GqJ.FnK@brunel.ac.uk> mt90dac@brunel.ac.uk writes:

 > In article <727510995snx@tillage.DIALix.oz.au> gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au (Gil
 > Hardwick) writes:
 > >
 > >BORING BORING BORING BORING BORING BORING BORING BORING BORING BORING!
 > >
 > Hi Gil, I see the tranquillisers are working.
 >  
 > When my sister didn't like what I was saying, she used to stick her fingers
 > her ears while shouting 'boring boring ...' etc.  I used to try to point
 > out that sticking your fingers in your ears is quite enough.  You don't
 > have to shout as well.

Ah, two of us now. I wonder how many more will be so inflicted?

Sticking fingers in my ears are for *my* benefit. The shouting is for
*your* benefit that you will know why I have my fingers in my ears.

 > Have you thought of using a kill file?

Kill files are more boring than ever. Interesting that it is the most
boring people who keep suggesting them as a solution to their patent
inability to post anything interesting or informative.

Gil
From: gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
Subject: Clinton transition
Distribution: world
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 02:26:17 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <21742@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> ez012344@chip.ucdavis.edu writes:

 >  
 > In article <727687368snx@tillage.DIALix.oz.au> gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au (Gil
 > Hardwick) writes:
 > >
 > [ez012344@ucdavis.edu impression of the inauguration coverage as capitalistic]
 > >
 > >Perhaps we would be more inclined to stand back away from it a little,
 > >and make some sort of observation on the event within a wider context.
 > >
 > Wider context is fine, but ought it include humour?
 > Yours ROTFLing,
 > Dan
 > deherrin@ucdavis.edu

What humour?

Gil
From: mjensen@access.digex.com (MPJensen)
Newsgroups: sci.edu
Subject: Re: Course structures
Date: 27 Jan 1993 10:55:54 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com
Summary: +7days

In article <77102@apple.apple.COM> billc@Apple.COM (Bill Cockayne) writes:
>...what people thought of Education By Appointment curriculums.
>
>In this setting, the students carry mostly the same course load as they 
>normally would, but they are not required to meet for class more than, say,
>one hour a week. In this hour the teacher interacts with the class as a whole
>explaining something that the students might not have seen in their book (ie,
>.....
>	All the students start on the same assignment, but when Suzy is done
>she goes and takes the "test" on it, even if no one else has even started. Suxy
>[Suzy] is then given the next assignment to work on. She could fininsh the 
>class in a couple of weeks if she were determined, or slack off compleeley and
>only finish a percentage of the course. The student will not advance within
>the classes curriculum until she has passed the current test (ie, you take the
>test until you pass with an A).
>
>	Could we do this in the present GT programs? In normal curricula?
>

I taught under a system like this called "Continuous Progress" for several
years.  It is a wonderful system for both teaching a curriculum and skills
like self-motivation and self-discipline.

Some problems led to its demise during the years that I taught:
1.  The system seemed to work well when each teacher handled 80-100
students.  Four years later, when the same teachers had 120-130 students,
the system had collapsed.  It seems to require low student-teacher ratios
to work.

2.  I believe the second problem is related to the first.  As
student-teacher ratios grew, the teachers were less able to trouble shoot
lapses in self-motivation or self-discipline among the students.  When
faced with the alternative of telling student and parent that Suzy had not
finished the course, there was a collective loss of nerve.  Instead, more
courses were created that Suzy could not help but finish because
everyone-was-taught-the-same-thing-at-the same-time.  Of course now the
problem was worse, instead of Suzy not finishing the course, Suzy was
failing the course.  Still, parents seem to prefer this option.

My conclusion is that this approach will be politically feasible among
students who are already fairly motivated and disciplined.  Students who
lack these skills cannot develop them without close supervision by parents
and teachers who constantly point out the effects and consequences of
their choices.
From: danmac@bohr.physics.purdue.edu (Daniel L. MacIsaac)
Newsgroups: sci.edu
Subject: Why can't the conservatives just admit that they are obsolescent?
Keywords: NRA, Helms, Buchanan, Reagan, Bush, IBM, mass extinctions
Date: 21 Jan 93 15:05:45 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Physics Department

...ahh, much better!

Interesting commentary on the "failure" of American public schooling due to
funding-related issues is graphically portrayed in:

Dec 92/Jan 93  Educational Leadership, Vol 50 (4).

Kozol, Jonathan (1991).  Savage Inequalities: Children in America's Schools.
Crown Publishers:NY.

Let's get out there and throw some $$ at those schools!  
(Or build some more prisons -- it's the American Way)

Dan

[Physics] '...is a narrow and rigid education, probably more so than any other
except perhaps in orthodox theology'
                        --  T.S. Kuhn, The Structure of Scientific Revolutions
Dan MacIsaac, Science Ed/Physics Grad Student, danmac@physics.purdue.edu

-- 
[Physics] '...is a narrow and rigid education, probably more so than any other
except perhaps in orthodox theology'
                        --  T.S. Kuhn, The Structure of Scientific Revolutions
Dan MacIsaac, Science Ed/Physics Grad Student, danmac@physics.purdue.edu
From: choy@dvinci.USask.Ca (Henry Choy)
Newsgroups: sci.edu
Subject: Entertainment as Educator
Date: 26 Jan 1993 02:34:35 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
NNTP-Posting-Host: dvinci.usask.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

People have a lot of time to spend at mass entertainment places.
Important issues may be introduced in such activities spiced with
some fun to attract attention. I'm not speaking of indoctrination
where people are herded into doing something, but stimulus for
thinking may be given. People may become interested in broadening
their lives, solving problems, etc. One example is the environment.
It's more than a cleanup and hygiene problem. There's recycling,
efficiency, improvement, you name it. The entertainment industry
might suggest solutions, but I think it would be best to let the
problems hit home.

--

Henry Choy
choy@cs.usask.ca

What rolls down stairs alone or in pairs            This has been brought to 
Rolls over your neighbor's dog?                     you by the numbers 4
What's great for a snack and fits on your back?     and 9 and the letter P.
It's Log, Log, Log!  -- "The Log Song", from            -- Big Bird
                         Ren & Stimpy

Math is tough!       -- Barbie
Xref: sparky sci.edu:1449 misc.education:6080
From: susan@csbvax.uucp (Susan Finkelman)
Newsgroups: sci.edu,misc.education
Subject: Re: Merit pay
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:14:40 GMT
Organization: Varian Chromatography Systems

In article <00727506198@elgamy.jpunix.com> elg@elgamy.jpunix.com (Eric Lee Green) writes:
>The problem is: what does a teacher do when s/he is handed these kids, told
>"Here, these kids are 4th graders, they learn 4th grade math" -- and the
>kids can't reliably do subtract with borrow and are at a loss when it comes
>to place value? What about the two kids in my class who can't even add and
>subtract without counting on their fingers, putting sticks on their paper,
>or some other counting method?

And what does a parent do when she tries to get her child to give up
the counting aids in the 2nd grade and again in the 3rd grade and is
told by the teachers that the children will be using them in school until
the fifth grade if the children would like to?  We teach our kids at
home and use the school for childcare as we both must work.  Something
is wrong here...
Susan Finkelman
susan@varian.com
Xref: sparky sci.edu:1454 misc.education:6088
From: kprashan@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (hyderabadi)
Newsgroups: sci.edu,misc.education
Subject: Re: Smart kids
Date: 22 Jan 93 00:35:54 GMT
Followup-To: poster


 
> In article <1993Jan13.155128.4753@linus.mitre.org> bs@gauss.mitre.org (Robert D. Silverman) writes:
> >:In a thread that was discussing the value of sports and other extra-curricular
> >:activities, 
> > 
> >Please explain to me how sports can teach him what is necessary to 
> >get a job and support himself after he finishes school? There are
> >really very few professional athletes, and it is NOT a lifelong
> >career.


Yes.. sports is a career for very few people in this world. But playing
and participating in sports (especially team sports) teaches kids things 
that are helpful in tougher things down the road. When you play in team 
sports you win some and lose some. When you lose, its not always your fault, 
& when you win, its not always because of you. It teaches you to persist, 
win as a team, and accept the fact you don't always get what you want 
(i.e. win). It teaches you how to handle situations when you don't 
get what you want (lose). It teaches you how to lose.

I still remember the days when I
played ball in the streets as a kid. At first, I used to be devastated
when I (and my team) lost. But then, you learn, you get another shot the 
next day. You have to take the disappointments and as they come.
Sports is a 'meaningless' activity that prepares you for the real world.

_______________________________________________________
| Prashanth                    |                      |
| U. of California @ San Diego | prash@raman.ucsd.edu |
#######################################################
Xref: sparky sci.edu:1504 sci.electronics:23552 sci.energy:7309 sci.engr:2546 sci.environment:14883
From: jimmosk@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Jim J Moskowitz)
Newsgroups: sci.edu,sci.electronics,sci.energy,sci.engr,sci.environment
Subject: Science Fair JUDGES WANTED
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:00:00 GMT
Followup-To: sci.edu
Distribution: pa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


   The Delaware Valley Science Fairs are seeking research-experienced
scientists, engineers, and technologists willing to volunteer one (1) day to
help one of the most important science education programs in the Delaware
Valley.  The 1993 DVSF will be judged Thursday, April 1st, 1993 at the
Philadelphia Civic Center.  Judging requires a full day.  Criteria for
evaluating science projects will be provided (as will breakfast and lunch).
   Contact with student scientists in a Science Fair is an interesting
experience for scientists or technicians with training and recent experience
in any field of medicine, science, or engineering.  To volunteer as a
Science Fair judge, contact:

Dr. Lee Bennett
The Franklin Institute
Franklin Parkway at 20th St.
Philadelphia PA  19103
(215) 448-1269

or email your name and mailing address to jimmosk@eniac.seas.upenn.edu

--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Jim Moskowitz                   "All you can logically say about 
jimmosk@eniac.seas.upenn.edu     a guy who thinks he's a poached egg
                                 is that he's in the minority." - James Burke
Newsgroups: sci.edu
From: jdh@medicine.newcastle.edu.au (John Hendriks)
Subject: (Re: Why can't the liberals: etc...)
Keywords: Class sizes
Organization: Faculty of Medicine
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:15:02 GMT

I have read with interest the discussion re teacher moral and worth. As an 
outsider and ex-teacher (Australian) I would like to ask what class sizes 
are in the US. To me it seems that the profession of teaching will only 
become valued when it achieves the glamour that sport currently holds (
gladatorial entertainment for the masses - keeps ones mind off the real 
issues). This value will be reflected in realistic class sizes - 10 to 15 
max. Currently here class sizes can be 30 - 35 (after all, to quote one 
illustrious politician, class size has no detrimental effect on the learning 
of the student). In a catch 22 senario the students of small classes would 
most likely enjoy learning, their teachers would enjoy teaching, and the 
social emphasis on education would therefore change ie more money for 
education (less for the armies etc) and for teachers salaries, for they 
would be valued professionals.

John Hendriks                  jdh@medicine.newcastle.edu.au
Faculty of Medicine
University of Newcastle
Australia
From: laurie@biomath.mda.uth.tmc.edu (Laurie Gelb)
Newsgroups: sci.edu
Subject: Re: Growing up to be a truck driver (was: RE: Branding Kids)
Date: 21 Jan 1993 23:48:05 GMT
Organization: UT M.D. Anderson Cancer Center

In article <IfLiGe600WB98iAXsl@andrew.cmu.edu> lv08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Lili
Velez) writes:

>Is there something inherently _wrong_ about being a truck driver?  Must we
>be disappointed in someone who _wants_ to be a beautician, a cook, a
>mechanic?

I certainly hope not.  Doing something you enjoy well generally benefits
everyone, including the doer.

>Yes, I completely understand being distressed when someone believes that one
>career or another is the "only job they could ever be suited for, so
>why try...?".  Abandoned or misguided potential is a tremendous loss, to
>both the person and the society which has to trundle on without their
>contributions -- but it seems to me that we can brand careers ('vocations'?)
>as unworthy or `below us' just as easily as we can brand children.

Sure.  It's the self-justification of someone who has advanced degrees and
can't fix a radiator.  Why should s/he care about radiators and those who
can fix them?  If s/he can't do it, it's not worth doing.  The converse is
also true--why should the mechanic care about Hegel's philosophy?  Humans
are self-centered as a consequence  of being pretty good survivors.  However,
this means we tend to care the least about the things we personally do the
worst.  And stereotypes about intellect persist...we use "blue-collar" and
"white-collar" as endpoints of a range, as if the more you work with your
hands, the less well your brain functions.

Laurie Gelb
laurie@biomath.mda.uth.tmc.edu

Uncle Sam wants YOU...
to pay your taxes, obey his laws, and keep your mouth shut.
From: "george caplan" <george.caplan@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: sci.edu
Subject: help teaching physics
Date: 23 Jan 93 23:37:28 EST
Reply-To: "george caplan" <george.caplan@channel1.com>
Distribution: sci
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

I have just been hired to teach an "algebra based college physics
course"
at a local community college. This is my first time teaching. The text
is _Physics, Principles with Applications_ by Douglas C. Giancoli.
There are twelve students. About half have had only algebra. Of the
remainder, all have had pre-calculus and one or two have had calculus.
.
   --> Anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with
       such diverse math backgrounds in a course of this
       type?
   --> Anyone have experience with this text book?
   --> Anyone have general suggestions for supplementary
       material for a course of this type. (I think
       the PSSC high school book looks good.)
   --> Anyone know whether Giancoli can be reached on
       the net?
.
                 Please reply to:
.
                 george.caplan@channel1.com
.
(Channel1 is a Boston-area bulletin board. It has no connection
  with Whittle Communication's Channle One.)
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA
From: faiw@tgic.Corp.Sun.COM ()
Newsgroups: sci.edu
Subject: scholarship & financial aid information
Date: 24 Jan 1993 06:42:17 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: faiw@tgic.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: tgic.corp.sun.com
Keywords: scholarship


Thought you might be interested...

There's some information on financial aid funds 
from corporations, etc. for college level studies.

Send your request to:  scholarship@netarch.com.

(This is for a friend of mine at netarch. 
No relation to Sun Microsystems.)


faiw
From: choy@dvinci.USask.Ca (Henry Choy)
Newsgroups: sci.edu
Subject: Let's Have Better Education
Date: 26 Jan 1993 03:01:23 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
NNTP-Posting-Host: dvinci.usask.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]


Employers want educated people and are reluctant to hire any odd bum
from the street, but the education system turn many people off. People
would have to be really desperate or really smart to go through the
messy education system. Everything written by people in academics is
so yucky. It's very difficult to make progress. People need to see
a brighter picture. Work should be fun. It should be more than just
bread and butter. People are lazy. They take so many shortcuts once
they are educated that it seems they are there just to earn their
money and then go have fun someplace else. Of course, people need
broader lives than just their narrow field of work, but things are
massively confusing right now. That's got to be combed out.

--

Henry Choy
choy@cs.usask.ca

What rolls down stairs alone or in pairs            This has been brought to 
Rolls over your neighbor's dog?                     you by the numbers 4
What's great for a snack and fits on your back?     and 9 and the letter P.
It's Log, Log, Log!  -- "The Log Song", from            -- Big Bird
                         Ren & Stimpy

Math is tough!       -- Barbie
Newsgroups: sci.edu,misc.education
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Subject: Re: Merit pay
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:41:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.161440.936@varian.com> susan@csbvax.uucp (Susan Finkelman) writes:
>In article <00727506198@elgamy.jpunix.com> elg@elgamy.jpunix.com (Eric Lee Green) writes:
>>The problem is: what does a teacher do when s/he is handed these kids, told
>>"Here, these kids are 4th graders, they learn 4th grade math" -- and the
>>kids can't reliably do subtract with borrow and are at a loss when it comes
>>to place value? What about the two kids in my class who can't even add and
>>subtract without counting on their fingers, putting sticks on their paper,
>>or some other counting method?

>And what does a parent do when she tries to get her child to give up
>the counting aids in the 2nd grade and again in the 3rd grade and is
>told by the teachers that the children will be using them in school until
>the fifth grade if the children would like to?  We teach our kids at
>home and use the school for childcare as we both must work.  Something
>is wrong here...

You have stated it well; all the schools do even moderately well is
child care, and we have also seen that they do not even do that well.
Would you send your children to a child care center which allows some
of them to beat up others?

How much should "teachers" who can only do child care be paid?
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
From: diverson@phys.ksu.edu (David Iverson)
Newsgroups: sci.edu
Subject: Re: Growing up to be a truck driver (was: RE: Branding Kids)
Date: 22 Jan 1993 18:05:34 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: bose.phys.ksu.edu

In <IfLiGe600WB98iAXsl@andrew.cmu.edu> Lili Velez <lv08+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:


>Is there something inherently _wrong_ about being a truck driver?  Must we
>be disappointed in someone who _wants_ to be a beautician, a cook, a
>mechanic?

I definitely agree.  And I'll bring the discussion a little closer to home. 
I have (since the day that I started college) wanted to be a High School
science teacher.  I am currently a graduate student at the Kansas State
Physics department, with my area of specialty being Physics Education.

You would not believe how many times I have encountered fallen faces of
Professors and peers who all ask the same question, "You're so intelligent,
why would you want to do something like teach high school."    Well, the
answer is, because: A) Somebody's got to do it.  B) I know I'm good at it.
and C) It gives me emotional and intellectual satisfaction  (i.e. I enjoy
doing it).

So how is this any different from looking down ones nose at truck drivers or
mechanics or other service employee's.  The fact of the matter is, the level
of education needed to compete for and sucessfully complete these jobs is
increasing every day.  To my way of thinking, fixing cars is a much more
self-actualizing way to live than scurrying around a law-library
photocopying articles for people. 

-David Iverson
--
diverson@phys.ksu.edu
Newsgroups: sci.edu
From: susan@csbvax.uucp (Susan Finkelman)
Subject: Re: Growing up to be a truck driver (was: RE: Branding Kids)
Organization: Varian Chromatography Systems
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 18:50:12 GMT

In article <IfLiGe600WB98iAXsl@andrew.cmu.edu> lv08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Lili Velez) writes:
>Is there something inherently _wrong_ about being a truck driver?  Must we
>be disappointed in someone who _wants_ to be a beautician, a cook, a
>mechanic?
>
>Yes, I completely understand being distressed when someone believes that one
>career or another is the "only job they could ever be suited for, so
>why try...?".  Abandoned or misguided potential is a tremendous loss, to
>both the person and the society which has to trundle on without their
>contributions -- but it seems to me that we can brand careers ('vocations'?)
>as unworthy or `below us' just as easily as we can brand children.

What an interesting set of examples.  I don't know about truck driver,
but I've know beauticians, cooks, and mechanics who are interesting,
creative people, not to mention carpenters, tool & die makers, autobody
repairers, farmers and electricians.  It never occured to me to aspire
to any of these careers, partly because I was a girl and partly because
I was going to college...I might well be happier as a mechanic.  My
partner certainly loves being one.

I try to let my kids know that honest work is fine.  Honest work that
one loves is best.  It's also important to be able to make enough money
to cover one's needs.  

(oh, yeah, I've also taken my share of flack for choosing a "blue collar
type" as a partner, just to show how pervasive this bias it, but we get on ok.)
Susan
susan@varian.com
From: mjensen@access.digex.com (MPJensen)
Newsgroups: sci.edu
Subject: Re: Merit pay
Date: 27 Jan 1993 10:14:54 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Expires: +7days
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <8485@lib.tmc.edu> laurie@biomath.mda.uth.tmc.edu (Laurie Gelb) writes:
>
>I could put it more strongly; the school district I'm in recently passed
>a large tax increase, largely on the argument that it would permit a 6%
>increase for some teachers.  "Merit pay?"  No, the original proposal broke
>it down by seniority.....  A school district asks for millions of dollars
>more, and they can't afford a real study to see what the teachers want?
>Laurie Gelb
>laurie@biomath.mda.uth.tmc.edu

I share your concern about proposals like this.  The district seems to to
fear a mass-exodus of experienced teachers but won't spend money on either
1. finding out if the teachers really want more money or on 2. finding a
distribution method that promotes good teaching.  If the district
officials won't do their own homework, the community should decide what
people/behaviors it wants to subsidize. 

  Why not use the extra money to pay teachers to take advanced course
work.  In addition, offer to pay a living stipend during the summer, but
require that the courses be substantial, in the area of certification, and
that the teachers pass it.  (Tuition programs usually fail on these
additional points.)