HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: csstddm@brunel.ac.uk (David Martland)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Instrumental instruction
Date: 12 Nov 92 10:45:45 GMT
Reply-To: csstddm@brunel.ac.uk
Organization: Brunel University

In article 15217@noose.ecn.purdue.edu, lungtt@gus5.ecn.purdue.edu (Terence T. Lung) writes:
>In article <1992Nov9.053454.9152@news.columbia.edu> gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:>>I'm working with a friend to compile a list of some pieces with the following
>>instrumentation:
>>
>>	Piano + Violin
>>	Piano + Clarinet
>>	Piano + Flute
>>
>>These are to be used for educational purposes.  More specifically, the
>>situation is that the pianist will be an accomplished musician, and the
>>other instrumental part should be of an easy enough level that it could
>>be tackled by a beginning or intermediate musician, such as an advanced
>>grade school or high school musician.
>>
>>Anything from renaissance through romantic is ok.  Any suggestions would
>>be appreciated.  Thanks.>

I can comment on Flute + Piano:

	1. Poulenc Sonata    (8)
	2. Lennox Berkeley Sonatina    (6)
	3. Lennox Berkeley Sonata        (7)
	4. Hanel Sonatas       (6)
	5. Bach Sonatas	        (8)
	6. Roussel - Joueurs de flute  (8)
	7. Copland --- can't remember the name.... (8)
	8.  Martinu Sonata (8)
	9. Hindemith Sonata (8)
	10. Prokofiev Sonata (9)

Possibly the least technically demanding are the Handel sonatas - musically
anything is difficult. The Berkeley sonatina is rewarding and quite flashy. In contrast
the sonata is rather dull.
The Prokofiev is absolutely brilliant - but hard!  I think Martinu also wrote a Sonatine
but I haven't played it - I heard it broadcast recently.

Also clarinet and Piano - don't know much about difficulty
	1. Schumann	Pieces
	2. Brahms  Sonatas (also transcribed for viola)
	3. Weber - Duo concertante?
	4. Hindemith sonata

Does this help?

                       David Martland
                  Dept. of Computer Science
                      Brunel University
                       United Kingdom

                  David.Martland@brunel.ac.uk
                  Tel: 0895 - 274000 ext 2139
                  Fax: 0895 - 256186
From: rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Rob Brooks)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: The Best Tchaikovsky's 6th
Date: 10 Nov 92 17:16:34 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College

In article <bTB=1S@engin.umich.edu>, newjack@engin.umich.edu (Kyong Soo
Lee) writes:
> 
> Hello fellow netters!  I'm sure this question has been raised in the past.  Anyway,
> which is the best recording of the Thaikovsky's 6th symphony out there now in your opinion?
> 
> Hope to get a long productive thread on this subject!
>
Hmm, I'm not sure how much of a thread this is going to produce but I'll
throw in my 2".  Is there a 'best' recording of this piece (or any piece
for that matter)?  That's another issue altogether so I'll leave it alone
for now.  I have heard two performances of this piece that I especially
like--Abbado/VPO on DG (*much* better than his more recent CSO recording)
and Reiner/Chicago on RCA (tape--anyone know if it's been reissued on CD?).
 

What are Karajan's performances like? 

> Kyong Lee
> newjack@engin.umich.edu
> U of Michigan, School of Engineering
> Wolverines Rule!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 

Rob (rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu)
From: spacefox@acs.bu.edu (Godfrey Degamo)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: It's in the wrists.
Date: 9 Nov 92 04:38:57 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: spacefox@acs.bu.edu



     Well, I tried playing some Chopin when I realized that my hands
were a bit small for some of the chords in his music!  I hate that!
Anyways, I heard that Chopin had big hands, that Rachmaninoff had
big hands, and that Liszt had real huge hands.
     I believe someone told me that Liszt's could span 12 keys with
his hand.  I can only span with great difficulty, 10. -with real
great difficulty.  Actually, its practically only 9 keys. *sniff*

     Anyways, is there any great piano composer/virtuoso who had
hands the size of mine or smaller?  (I'm looking for insipiration! :)


Well, hopefully this isn't a dumb question, if it is, sorry I posted it.

                             -G. Degamo,
                              spacefox@acs.bu.edu
From: haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bare Vs. Bold
Date: 10 Nov 1992 23:41:12 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ucsc.edu


vs. Bear Valley vs Bald Eagle.
-- 
haynes@cats.ucsc.edu
haynes@cats.bitnet

"Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was!"
"No it aint!  But ya gotta know the territory!"
        Meredith Willson: "The Music Man"
From: 910394f@ace.acadiau.ca (JAMES LEON FALCONE)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Best recording of "1812 Overture"?
Date: 6 Nov 92 00:17:27 GMT
Organization: Acadia University

In article <chiu-051192100848@222.8.248.8> chiu@gpb-mac.sps.mot.com (Norman Chiu) writes:
>Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
>Path: dragon.acadiau.ca!nstn.ns.ca!morgan.ucs.mun.ca!csd.unb.ca!torn!cs.utexas.edu!oakhill!NewsWatcher!user
>From: chiu@gpb-mac.sps.mot.com (Norman Chiu)
>Subject: Best recording of "1812 Overture"?
>Message-ID: <chiu-051192100848@222.8.248.8>
>Followup-To: rec.music.classical
>Sender: news@oakhill.sps.mot.com
>Nntp-Posting-Host: 222.8.248.8
>Organization: Motorola Inc.
>Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:14:50 GMT
>Lines: 10
>Hi Everyone:
>    I am looking for the best CD (in terms of recording and performance)
>of the "1812 Overture" by Tchaikovsky.  Can anyone recommend one?
>
>Please post any info in this group.  Thanks.
>
>   /|   /  chiu@gpb-mac.sps.mot.com  | Norman Chiu - Motorola Inc.
>  / |  / ___________________________ | "We never gonna survive
> /  | / /  / /__/  /\/\   /_\   /| / |  unless we get a little
>/   |/ /__/ /   \ /    \ /   \ / |/  |  crazy"       - Seal



With the exeption of the tacky electronic bells at the end I quite like 
MSO's recording of the 1812.
     J.
From: rseymour@reed.edu (Robert Seymour)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Recomendations on Rachmaninoff's 2nd Concerto for Piano (Cm)?
Keywords: rachmaninoff, concerto, piano
Date: 12 Nov 92 03:43:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov12.034351.14665
Reply-To: rseymour@reed.edu
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR


	What are particularly good recordings of Rachmaninoff's Second Concerto  
for Piano in C minor? I'd like one with both good sound quality, and a notable  
performance, but the performance is more important. DDD disks are also  
preferable. Also, any recomendations on Rachmaninoff's Rhapsody on a Theme of  
Paginini? Last, what other pieces, recordings do you consider amoung  
Rachmaninoff's best (either before or after his counseling).

--
Robert Seymour				rseymour@reed.edu
Departments of Physics and Philosophy
Artificial Life Project			Reed College
Reed Solar Energy Project (SolTrain)	Portland, OR
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Nancarrow (was Re: STRAVINSKY)
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:48:30 GMT

In article <BxGDEM.7qu@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>josh@aris.ss.uci.edu (Josh Stern) wrote:
>> al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (haus der luge) writes:
>>> I recall somebody here mentioning that they have a copy of the 'RITE OF 
>>> SPRING' for ONE piano.
>>> I was extremely skeptical about how the TWO piano version (scored by 
>>> Stravinsky himself) would sound ... but it's fantastic and renewed my 
>>> faith in the sheer power that can come from just two instruments.
>> There is a pianola version, based on a roll prepared by Stravinsky...
>> The pianola `performance' is very effective, particularly in the
>> driving rhythmic sections which are taken at very fast tempos.
>
>OK, returning to the question I posed some while ago about Nancarrow's
>player piano music: what sort of player piano was it, and where do you
>get the rolls?  (My girlfriend has a pianola which should produce great
>results when the main bellows is fixed, as almost everything else is in
>perfect condition; but the rolls we have for it are crap, and something
>like this would be a mindblower).

Nancarrow's rolls are cut on a specially designed machine, and played
back on a modified Ampico - I don't know the details of the
modification, or whether you could play them back on a 'standard'
Ampico.

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Brahms
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:42:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BxMEuD.Exs
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <BxL30t.8FM@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> kldawkin@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Kiwi) writes:

>Are there other
>people out there who think (as I do) that Brahms is highly overrated?
>That's not to say he didn't write great music... but I don't think
>he wrote a *lot* of great music. The strange thing about Brahms
>is that although I like a great deal of music from his time
>(music of contemporaries such as Liszt, Wagner, Bruch, Saint-Saens,
>Balakirev, etc.) I simply can't get into his music at all. 

I have had a similar, not identical problem with Brahms.  Despite the
obvious immediate sonic appeal of his music, I found that it took me a
long time to get interested in each of his pieces.  His manner is
somehow alien to me.  I can't think of a piece of his (that I know) that
I dislike now, but it was a struggle with each of them, sometimes
lasting for years.  And somehow, making the breakthrough with one work
was no help with the next; I needed to go through the whole thing again
each time.  I don't call him overrated, but for me he is difficult.  Far
more so than Wagner.  Still, his fourth symphony, Requiem, and double
concerto would now go on my all-time list of favorite music.

Schubert is in a similar category to Brahms for me.  I need to work hard
at understanding each piece of his; I guess I am not on the same
wavelength, but close enough that I can eventually make it.  Mahler was
a different situation for me; for a time I didn't "get" him at all (this
was in the late 60s), then one recorded performance (the first Bernstein
Das Lied von der Erde) showed me the light and from then on I had no
problems with Mahler at all.

Jon Alan Conrad
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Looking for voice version of Ave Maria (Bach/Gound)
Date: 9 Nov 1992 09:57:10 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

ca_ac@gsbacd.uchicago.edu wrote:
: In article <1dcjknINN663@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>, diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott) writes:
: > The classic performance is John McCormack and Fritz Kreisler, with the
: > piano by (I think) Franz Rupp.
: I must agree. The version by McCormack is truly wonderful, and Kreisler plays
: beatifully. I have a tape of this which I had recorded from one my father's old
: records. I would be interested in knowing if there is a re-release on CD.

I think Biddulph have re-released the McCormack/Kreisler duets, but I'm
not sure. I have them on 78's. He also does an Ave Maria based on the
Intermezzo for Cavalleria Rusticana, as well as the famous Schubert one,
and the lesser know one by Percy Kahn. (There is a version of _this_
with Kahn accompanying Caruso, with Violin by Mischa Elman. Shame _they_
never did Bach/Gounod)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: parson_r@cubldr.colorado.edu (Robert Parson)
Subject: Re: Bernard Shaw quotes (was: Brahms)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 20:04:51 GMT

In article <Yf0o_iG00iV1E_5IhC@andrew.cmu.edu>, Aaron Paul Kozbelt <ak3s+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>  
> There must be many other memorable quotes about music, composers, etc.
> I'd like to hear others.
>  

 Nicholas Slonimsky put together an anthology of such 'memorable quotes',
 from composers, critics, and others. It's called "A Lexicon of Musical
 Invective." Great reading!

 From my own memory:
  Chopin had little regard for Beethoven's and Schumann's piano music.
  Berlioz and Balakirev had low opinions of Bach.
 Shostakovich thought Beethoven's Op. 111 was "very boring."
 It goes on and on. The only composer I can think of who did take a broad,
 generous view of music even when it differed radically from his own is
 Schumann. 

 Robert
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel)
Subject: Bernard Shaw quotes (was: Brahms)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 21:15:31 GMT

In article <BxM4Gt.Dtn@cmcl2.nyu.edu>, tony@cns.nyu.edu writes...
>I can't resist adding George Bernard Shaw's view of Brahms to this (quoting
>frommemory): "Brahms is like a gigantic baby, who insists on dressing himself
>up as Bach or Handel, and making a prolonged and intolerable noise".
> 
GBS also had a couple gems re: Wagner.  He reported to a friend that he had
just heard Wagner's Ring, "and lived".  And he also maintained that "Wagner's
music is not as bad as it sounds."

There must be many other memorable quotes about music, composers, etc.
I'd like to hear others.

ron
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hudu@well.sf.ca.us (Scott Marley)
Subject: Re: HAYDN
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 09:26:05 GMT


>> I must have missed one of the symphony cycles: much as I hate to
   disagree, but I thought the Dorati was still the only complete cycle.

The other complete cycle around the same time as Dorati's was
Maerzendorfer's with the Vienna Chamber Orchestra, on the Musical Heritage
label.

As far as recommendations go, I think a great place to start would be the
op. 76 string quartets.  I like the Takacs Quartet's recording a lot.  The
recent Simon Rattle recording of symponies 60, 70, and 90 is very good, and
the symphonies are quirky and fun.  My favorite modern-instrument
performances of Haydn symphonies, though, are those conducted by Sir Charles
Mackerras: he's done three pairs with the Orchestra of St. Luke's, numbers
31 & 45, 100 & 103, and 101 & 104.  The latter two are from Haydn's last
set of symphonies, and the music is polished and sophisticated; the first
pair is Haydn being more experimental with form.  Number 45, the "Farewell"
symphony, is one of Haydn's very best, full of fire and passion.

As for period instrument performances, I like the Salomon Quartet's
recordings of the string quartets a lot; they've recorded op. 20, 71, and
74, and an op. 33 set is supposed to be on the way.  For the symphonies, the
Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment (led by Sigiswald Kuijken) is my
favorite, particularly their recordings of the Paris symphonies.  I also
like Trevor Pinnock's 6-CD set of the Sturm und Drang symphonies, and
Christopher Hogwood's cycle-in-progress is very good so far.  (I don't think
there's much to recommend the Hanover Band's period-instrument
cycle-in-progress, though.)


As for learning to hear modulations, I just don't know.  I'm not a trained
musician, and yet I've managed to learn to do it, but it's not always easy
even now.  I picked up the knack in my early 20s when I listened to almost
nothing but Haydn and Mozart for nearly a year--I wasn't trying hard, it
just happened.  Then when I started listening to later composers again, I
lost the knack.  But that period when I was hearing the modulations without
straining or even trying, just naturally *getting* them, it was a real
enlightenment.  The sonata form shape had a real emotional effect: I felt
the tension and resolution instinctively, as I think people of the time must
have.

I can still do it if I concentrate, or if I binge on Haydn and Mozart again
for a while to "clean out my ears" of chromaticism.  (I'd love to be able to
keep that natural knack all the time, but giving up all later composers is
too high a price for me to pay!)  One thing that I find helps is to make an
effort to be aware of the tonic at all times.  The tonic is easy to find,
and you can sort of hum it to yourself in your mind, and if you're doing
that then it becomes very obvious when the music modulates up a fifth.  Even
this isn't as good as hearing it naturally, without trying, but at least it
draws your attention to what's happening keywise.

Scott Marley
hudu@well.sf.ca.us
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks)
Subject: Re: Cage's 4'33"
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:47:40 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.205624.1093@sequent.com>, danielh@sequent.com (Daniel Hobbs) writes:
|> I've read so much on this newsgroup about Cage's infamous 4'33".
|> Can anyone recommend any good recordings of it?  What, in the
|> informed opinion of this net, is the _best_ recording?

What a coincidence!  I'm listening to a performance right now, and my CD
player is miles away.

But the disk fan is whirring, my officemate's keyboard is clicking, a phone
just rang nearby, and I can hear my boss's dulcit tones haranguing a
colleague...

There.  It just finished.
-- 
David Brooks					dbrooks@osf.org
Open Software Foundation			uunet!osf.org!dbrooks
Allueberall und ewig blauen licht die Fernen!  Ewig... ewig... earwig... O!
From: smitra@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Sami Mitra)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: The best Tristan und Isolde
Date: 13 Nov 92 15:58:24 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <BxMGF1.F59@news.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
>
>No Sinopoli for me here, please.  Levine conceivably, though I'd prefer
>Kleiber again, or maybe Abbado.  For years Solti was wanting to do it
>with Jessye Norman and Placido Domingo, but now it looks like that won't
>happen because Jessye has opted out. 
>Jon Alan Conrad

Oops, sorry about the last paragraph of my earlier mailing about Jessye 
Norman. If she has decided not to do it that's that then!


					Sami Mitra
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Favorite Ring recordings
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:39:24 GMT

Sigh. If someone would provide me with sufficient financial endowment
that I could retire in a style at least as rich as that to which I
have become accustomed :-) I would have the leisure to listen to all
the available recordings of the _Ring_, or at least all those that
seem like they *might* be interesting. As it is, I'm restricted as far
as personal experience goes to the Solti, the Karajan, the Janowitz,
the Leinsdorf _Walkuere_ on RCA, the Levine _Walkuere_ on CD, and the
videotapes of the Levine cycle at the Met. And it's quite a while
since I've heard most of these.

In some ways, the Levine videotapes are the most satisfying -- maybe
because they *are* video, and the staging is mostly excellent. And
they have Morris, and Behrens (who, for all her problems, does more
for me than Nilsson ever did), and spectacular performances from
Christa Ludwig and Kurt Moll.

But the broadcast sound is sub-par (and the miking is dreadful,
completely screwing up the balances). And Levine can be irritating --
he has an annoying tendency to call attention to *what* he's doing
with the music. This affects my enjoyment of the W CD as well.

In article <BxK83u.8Mw@news.udel.edu>, conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
> The closest rival to Solti
> in my Ring affections is Janowski, and that mostly for his conducting
> and the Dresden State Orchestra's fabulous playing -- and some
> interesting casting in the middle 2 operas.

I like this one too, but it has problems that may be more a matter of
recording technique than performance. None of the big climaxes are
quite big enough for my taste, and the sound is what someone else once
described as "early CD" -- bright, harsh, and lacking in warmth and
fullness. It doesn't help that I have the earlier, 18-CD ripoff, er,
release (it's not paying for 2 or 3 extra disks that I mind so much,
it's the superfluous side breaks).

> The first 2 segements of Karajan's cycle are also treasurable, but he
> didn't solve the Siegfried or Bruennhilde problems later on.

Not to mention the oddness of Sutherland as the Bird (have I got the
right recording?), and a lot of overplaying in the Goetterdaemmerung.
On the other hand, I like Ridderbusch's Hagen better than any other
I've heard (and that includes Salminen).

> 
> >I find myself going back to Solti again and again, especially for
> >Gotterdammerung, which I still find to be an astonishing unified triumph of
> >the art of performance and the art of recording.
> 
> Right once again.  Opera recordings don't come much finer than this one.

Unless, like me, you *really don't* like the sounds made by Gottlob
Frick.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jefrank@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jason E Frank)
Subject: obscene lyrics advisory--new Baltimore Consort album!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 00:21:50 GMT

I've heard that the new release by the Baltimore Consort, "The Art
of the Bawdy Song:  Music from the Gutters of 17th Century England"
due out next Monday, will contain a label warning of lyrics which some
may find objectionable.  I find this quite amusing, to say the least--
how many teenagers are likely to go rushing out to buy this album?
Does anyone know of any other "classical" album which took such an
action (and no, P.D.Q. Bach's "pathetic lyrics" advisory regarding 
"Classical Rap" (from the "Oedipus Tex" album) doesn't count!)?

b.t.w., are there any other fans of the Baltimore Consort out there?
I'd like to get some discussion going once this new album is released.

--jason

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@osc.edu (Steve Koehl)
Subject: Wedding Music
Followup-To: steve@osc.edu
Keywords: wedding
Organization: The Ohio Supercomputer Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 21:56:01 GMT

I've just become the one in charge of "music" for my
daughter's wedding.  I have in mind a mix of light
classical to pop items such as "Memories."  The
instruments are not fixed: could be piano, harp,
3-4 strings, 'cello.  This is to cover pre-ceremony
through sit-down dinner.  After that, it's the
"band" for dancing.

  My starter list is:

     Meditation
     Memories
     Ave Maria
     The Swan
     Some Bach
     Bits and pieces of Beethoven Piano Sonatas

I'm asking for suggestions, and what is an
appropriate instrument for each suggestion.

Alternatively, is there a list or a book addressing
this problem.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: HAYDN
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 17:06:57 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.060054.19013@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
[....]
>b) He's wrong, anyway.  The Haydn revival happened in the 60's and 70's.
>We got at least two complete sets of Haydn symphony recordings, all
>the quartets at least twice, tons of recordings of the Masses, etc.
>Damn little of it on period instruments, either.

I must have missed one of the symphony cycles: much as I hate to
disagree, but I thought the Dorati was still the only complete cycle.
(Gobermann started one but died before he could finish it). I'll be
interested in being proved wrong.

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.