HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (Andreas  Tovornik)
Subject: Re: FLAME! Only a Manual!
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 01:23:38 GMT

In article 5428@telly.on.ca, evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) writes:
>In article <BxAuD9.8E4@cs.uiuc.edu> ward@cs.uiuc.edu (Christ Ward) writes:
>
>>I just had to toss in my .02 here (it's worth what you paid for it).
>
>>I think you should be concerned, lets say your in the middle of
>>no place and get into a wreck.  Then lets say your car (auto) is 
>>flipped but the other car (manual trany) is good to go, and the 
>>other driver is near death...no phone, no C.B., no help...is this
>>the time to learn to drive a manual?
>
>And what if the other "car" is an 18-wheeler? Do I need to learn that,
>too, just in case?

Why the hell not? Being an ex-trucker, I tell you that it's a good thing
to learn how to drive with 13 or more gears and use air brakes. Besides,
it's a hell of a lot of fun! :+)

Torque Monger
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: car company stock
Date: 10 Nov 92 19:29:22 GMT
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.

In article <1992Nov10.185740.16964@infonode.ingr.com> greg@cherokee.b23b.ingr.com (Greg Moritz) writes:
>The last I heard, the Ford family still owned about 20% of Ford.  They
>have a special kind of stock that is not publicly traded.  That kind of
>thing starts to get complicated:  

They owned 20% of the stock but had most of the voting stock at some
time. One of the many books done about Ford (The Reckoning? or Ford, 
the Man and the Machine) described in detail how they did that. I
think Mr. Ford never wanted to borrow money, and he saw stock offers
as borrowing... I think Ford went public quite late, much later than
other US car companies at the time.

>Another interesting special stock is the EDS stock that is a part of GM,
>yet you can purchase it separately on the market.  EDS is the data 
>processing firm that the presidential candidate Ross Perot founded then
>sold to GM for a place on the board and some GM stock.

And GMH, or GM Hughes Electronics, which includes various Hughes 
subsidiaries, and Delco subsidiaries. 

>Yesterdays close for GM E was 28 1/2 vs 30 7/8 for the common.  There
>are also three kinds of GM preferred stock, a type H stock and a type
>E preferred.  

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       striantafyll@kosds1.gm.hac.com
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (Andreas  Tovornik)
Subject: Re: FLAME! Only a Manual!
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 01:06:11 GMT

In article 1dck4tINNqj3@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu, aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:
>
>In a previous article, atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (Andreas  Tovornik) says:
>[repeated stuff deleted]
>
>>And driving TRABANTS!
>
>haha..nicelyput!!!
>
>*****WARNING: REAL LIFE EXAMPLE TO FOLLOW!! STOP NOW IF YOU DO NOT LIKE IT!!
>(you gotta make sure to put this stuff on these to protect these peeple!! ;-)
>
>>Yeah...My mother's not willing to try either. When her car was in the shop,
>>I said that she was welcome to use mine. I had to drive her all over town
>>because she never could be bothered to learn how to REALLY drive(ARRRGH!)
>>
>
>this is a real life example of what i have been stressing.  EVERYONE should
>LEARN on a stick, as they can then drive EITHER!!..at their WHIM...but, 
>those who never learn on a stick, are relegated to the (monotonouosIMHO)
>life of driving an auto only, and, whenever circumstances call, are left
>looking like idiots because they have to  be either taught, or they have
>to beg someone to take the time to drag them around, or they claim to be
>able to, and screw up the equipment!....if everyone were required to learn
>to drive a manual, then they would have the choice, but as it is now, have
>NONE!!...geez..how can anybody be so blind???
>DREW
>apologies for the cut stuff..it's in other articles, tho.

Apologies accepted. Sorry 'bout the flame. Thought you were a cretin
because you were unclear. Forgive me?

I believe that EVERYONE should also know how to double-clutch effectively.
It makes HIGH PERFORMANCE much, much smoother!!! :+)

Torque Monger
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: sleeziness in car price ads (was Re: NEW MBZ 190E PRICES)
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:09:03 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.

In article <1992Oct30.063238.29893@scott.skidmore.edu> jreiser@scott.skidmore.edu (Jason Reiser... Asleep) writes:
>james@koko.csustan.edu (Jonas Grumpy) writes:
>> I just saw a commercial that adveritesed a new 190e for 14,938!!!
>> This is a drop of over 13,000 dollars if I'm not mistaken. Did I see a
>
>Though I don't know for sure, it sounds like the above figure is
>probably the amount you would pay, in total, over the term of a lease.

It indeed is a lease.  

In our area at least (Indianapolis) few, if any (particularily import)
car dealers advertise prices. The only ones you see are Accord for XXX/mo
and in size 3 font you find out the $199 /month is a lease...

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       striantafyll@kosds1.gm.hac.com
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Analog Brake Light
Date: 11 Nov 1992 02:08:25 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser) says:

>Speakin of brake lights.. hell analog schmanalog.. I'd just be happy
>if all cars even had WORKING brake lights. Driving around here in
>suburbia, there isn't a day that goes by that I don't get stuck behind
>some moron with non-functional brake lights. And inevitably the
>jerk is tailgating the guy in front of him and slams on his brakes
>a few times just to make sure everything I have on my front seat
>goes flying off into the footwells. 
>
>Invariably, when I can't get around the jerk with no brakelights,
>I start backing off to keep a safe distance, and then some other
>idiot cuts in in front of me and starts tailgating the doofus with
>no brakelights, compounding the problem. 
>
>I yearn for the day that California has some money again and can
>consider bringing back those Highway Patrol random car checkpoints.
>I used to go out of my way to try to get stopped at those because it
>gave me a great feeling of personal satisfaction to know that all
>the safety systems on my car which they inspected (brake lights,
>headlamps, turn signals, etc.) were fully functional. 
>
>Please net.folks... don't just ASSume your brakelights are working.
>Get someone to stand behind your car as you tap your brake pedal
>and make SURE they work, or if you have no social life, back up close
>to a wall and check them yourself sometime. 
>Harv
>
this works best in the dark..sometimes you do  not even need to be against
a wall..just hit the brakes with all your lights off, and you can see the
glow on the ground on each side..(not to be done IN TRAFFIC!!..do it 
BEFORE you leave the driveway..or in an isolated place w/o any traffic
(like an ally!)) ;-)
DREW
-- 
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????-----whatever!
From: loszewski_im@hnrc.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Cordless Cellular Phones - which one?
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:43:49 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: USDA HNRC at Tufts University

In article <1992Nov5.191823.4381@linus.mitre.org>, rajiv@hilltop.mitre.org (Rajiv Kohli) writes:
> 
> Can anyone help out on the Cordless Cellular Phones?
> AT&T is selling one in NH for $399. The price is the same 
> for the public and the employees.
> 
> Any comments on this model? What about an alternate model.

Bell Systems has one on the market that isn't cordless but is portable.  It 
sells for $159.00 at Sears.  I bought mine on sale at $129 a couple of weeks.

-Rob


> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Rajiv Kohli		Email: rajiv@mbunix.mitre.org Tel: (617) 271-3506
> Mitre Corporation 	Intelligence System Integration and Support
> 202 Burlington Road 	Bedford, MA-01730 Mail Stop: K 306
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  @                               _                                  ,,       
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>   \\_( )_//                    / Y |                   .      /--( )_//     
>     | Y/--                    /\   /               .        '//  \~ \       
>     |_/       _ / o"         ( _\ /            .                   - \      
>   _ //\      | | |    .       \_\\\        .                     //  \\--,  
>  /_// /      | | |      .    / \ \\\ .                           \\         
> / // /_______|_|_|__________/_/_\ \_______________________________\\_______
> -------------------------------------------- Play Cricket -----------------
From: dye@i88.isc.com (Ken R. Dye )
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Formula (was Re: BETTER? 92 Camaro...)
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:45:10 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL

In article <1992Nov11.210322.20230@lgc.com> jlg@zycor.lgc.com () writes:
>>>Hmmm. I have seen some TPI examples with (ugh) rear drums, but this is
>>>Canada. What year is your Pontiac catalog for? I thought the dual cats
>>>were standard on the GTA and optional on TPI FORMULAS & T/A's
>>
>>        The firebird literature in (88-90? memory fade) claimed that
>>the 4 wheel disks were a required option on the TPI 'birds.  It
>>also said that 5.0 TPI 5 speeds and 5.7 cars got the dual cats.
>>I seem to recollect a recall on TA's or GTA's that didn't get the
>>dual cats....they were re-fitted with the proper setup.
>>
>>        Despite what the literature says, I've seen (usually late
>>in the model year) TPI firebirds with the rear drums.  But the scariest
>>thing I saw was a 5.7 IROC with rear drums and 15", non-speed rated
>>GT +4's!  A car that would go 145 MPH with tires that go to mush
>>at 120....hope that thing had a speed limiter...
>
>1LE f-bodies are not the only f-bodies to have the Borg-Warner 'australian',
>9 bolt rear end.  All '87-'89 5.7 IROC's and all '87-'89 5.0 G92 5 speed IROC's 
>have the BW rear end.  WS6 Firebirds went the BW rear end one year earlier (1986).
>1989 was the last year for any BW f-body rear end.

	Was the LSD unit for these rear ends an Auburn unit (clutch-cone)
or the clutch pack type?

>
>In addition, all 5.7 IROC's ('87-'90) and 5.7 Z28's ('91-'92) required rear disc 
>brakes and the 16 inch wheels.  The same was true for all 5.0 TPI G92 5 speed 
>IROC's ('87-'90) and all 5.0 TPI G92 Z28's ('91-'92).
>
>The only TPI powered f-bodies (a lot of them) that have rear drums are 5.0 non-G92
>automatics and 5.0 non-G92 5 speeds.

	Were any 5.0 G92 automatics ever made?  Sounds like a waste
of time.

>
>The 5.7 IROC you saw with rear drums and 15 inch wheels was likely not a 5.7.
>I have seen several 5.0 IROC's rebadged as 5.7 IROC's.  To be sure, always


	No, this was on a dealer lot, a brand new car.  I have seen
other new, on the lot 5.7 camaros with rear drums as well (but
no 15" wheels other than the one described before).  I was in
the market a couple of years ago and looked at a LOT of f-bodies
(even some 1LEs).  Just because the literature says something
(like the pontiac "all 5.0 5 speeds require rear disks" doesn't
mean they didn't build cars contradicting their claims...or 
perhaps they were ordered from the dealer specifically that way.
Dealers do some pretty weird stuff...I saw a 5.7 1LE IROC with
leather seats and a CD player (and of course, the slime tried 
to tell me it was a 'vette beater...)!

--Ken
-- 
Ken R. Dye				an optimist is a guy		 |
Interactive Systems Corp., Chicago	that has never had		 | 
(800) LAI-UNIX x341			much experience			 |
dye@i88.isc.comm						archy	 |
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Mshar)
Subject: Re: AUTOMATICS CAN BE NICE! (Was Re: FLAME! On
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 04:48:32 GMT

> atovorni@engr.UVic.CA writes:
>>I wrote:

>>I am the proud owner of a 1981 Monte Carlo with a Turbo-Hydramatic 350
>>automatic. The transmission was built for me by a friend who works in trans
>>shop. Best $150.00 deal I ever made. Hell, it`s the best transmission I
>>have ever owned.
>>
>>Anyway, the thing shifts rock hard. If this person had ever driven a
>>car with a tranny like mine, he would not bitch about automatics. 
>>
>>There is nothing like the feeling of flooring it right off the line, letting
>>the car get up to around 45-50 mph, shifting into second, and feeling the
>>transmission _instantly_ shift into second gear as the tires break lose for
>>just that split second. When you can shift a manual from first to second in
>>less than a quarter of a second, then maybe you will understand. I get more
>>compliments on this automatic`s operation than any stickshift I have ever
>>driven.
>>
>>Don`t get me wrong, I like sticks too. But everyone has their preferences,
>>so don`t knock it if you have never really had the chance to feel the best.
>
>Don't get me wrong either. I just prefer sticks. Hope you did something
>with that mushy/wobbly stock suspension when you modified that mushy/wobbly 
>slushbox to your taste. At least your car is RWD! :+)
>

Yes, the back-end is plenty stiff. Don`t you worry, some of us know what we
are doing. Actually, the back end was stiff when I got the car. It does
need new shocks.

Actually, the car handles fairly decent for its size. It is anything but a
cushy ride, I can tell you that. With a little work on the front end, this
chasis could be an excellent candidate for a street machine. Just gotta get
the money to build it up, first!

And BTW, a TH350 is NOT a mushy, wobbly, slushbox. Any tranny that can
survive for 17 years behind a 350 (of which 3 of those years it was behind
a BUILT 350) in the stock configuration is not `slushy`. Ford autos, on the
other hand....   :-)

-- 
|       Michael G. Mshar        | My Life-Long Goal: To keep common sense    |
|   mmshar@mn.ecn.purdue.edu    | alive and keep the idiots from taking over.|
|  mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu   |     \\President, Nice Guys Anonymous//     |
|____>>> United States Steel, Mechanical Engineer, Technical Services <<<____|
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: tflynn@encore.com (Tonya Flynn)
Subject: Re: FLAME! Only a Manual!
Organization: Encore Computer Corp., Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:32:18 GMT



I've tried so hard to stay out of this discussion but just can't
stand it anymore so I guess I'll just 'have' to add my $.02
worth.  It's been so long now I can hardly figure out who said
what but in essense, the comment that drove this response is:

>>Yeah...My mother's not willing to try either. When her car was in the shop,
>>I said that she was welcome to use mine. I had to drive her all over town
>>because she never could be bothered to learn how to REALLY drive(ARRRGH!)
>>

When I was in high school my father showed up in a 1966 Mustang
Convertible-powder blue.  It, of course, had a manual 3-speed and
my Mother had never learned to drive a stick.  Well, our driveway
could accommodate six cars easily provided they were in a straight
line.  You see it coming don't you.  Well, after a few times when
she couldn't get her car out of the driveway because she was unable to move
the Mustang out of the way, she DEMANDED that my Father get rid of
that car.  I was devastated.  I loved that car and my Dad got a real
kick out of driving it.  That was many, many years ago and I still
remember it like it was yesterday.  Everybody should know how to
drive a stick.  What if it had been an emergency instead of just an
inconvenience?

Way back when I took driver's ed, in the days when you used real cars
and real roads, we were required to learn on both manual and 
automatics.  Although we took our 'final exam' in an automatic
(you know the one--the test with parallel parking, and u-turns and
stops without spilling a drop of water, etc), we had to have logged
a certain number of hours in a stick.  Why aren't people taught to
drive both automatic and manuals?

Anyway, I haven't owned a stick in years and I don't plan on ever
buying another one, but I do get a smile on my face every time I
do drive a stick on those rare occasions (like my friend's 
mint-condition TR6).  I understand what those guys are trying
to say about the fun of driving a stick (a fun you can't really
describe) but I don't agree that you're 'not a driver' if you
elect to drive automatics.  Anyway, jumping in the middle of
this thread was fun.  I now return you to your regularly scheduled
programming.

                                           |
Tonya (I'd rather be Sailing) Flynn       /|\      6901 W. Sunrise Blvd.
(305/797-2446)                           / | \     Ft. Lauderdale, Fl 33313
"Let's just punch through that        ----------   UUCP:  uunet!gould!tflynn
sand bar"--Crew of Natty Dread          ------     INTERNET: tflynn@encore.com
From: fengxi@prancer.eche.ualberta.ca (Fengxi Zhou)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Is GM going bankrupt ???
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:28:57 GMT
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

00bndaniels@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
: I am curious to know if a rumor the GM is going bankrupt is true 
: or not?  I live in Indiana where GM is a very big employer.  I am 
: curious to know because if GM is going to go under, it could have 
: a devistating effect on the state's economy.
: Any insights greatly appreciated,
: Barron Daniels
: student at Ball State University,
: Muncie Indiana

We've seen lots of analogies between GM and FUSSR, eg burocracy and low 
efficiency, etc.  Is the analogy becoming literal?  Anyway, something BIG is
going to happen.  The way I see it, Chrysler is in best shape in terms of
product structure, with the Viper on top, new colt at the bottom (Shadow
replacement is on the way), minivan and Jeep Grand Cherokee on the sides,
and the new and stunning LH in the middle to fight off the competition.  Ford
is not bad but the Tarus/Sable line can not soldier on too much longer.  Probe,
Mercury Villiger and the new Lincoln Mark VIII are all exciting, especially
the big and flashy Mark is going in for a serious fight with Caddilac STS,
Lexus SC400 alike.  GM?  Well, if it is in really good shape, there wouldn't
have been that speculation at the first place, right?  Yes, STS is GM product.
But they haven't swamped the market place and I have difficulty to see how
that will ever happen.
  
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: goudreau@batman.rtp.dg.com (Bob Goudreau)
Subject: Re: Camry ham-ry (Was: Dodge Intrepid, Volvo 850)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 92 17:50:14 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, RTP, NC

In article <BwwKyr.AyL@news.cso.uiuc.edu> mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Real life?!  Bahahahahah!!) writes:
>tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:
>
>>mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Real life?!  Bahahahahah!!) writes:
>>> 
>>> > [Toyota Camry] Rear seat does
>>> > fold down, a boon for owners trapped by malfunctioning power locks.
>>> 
>>> I HOPE you're joking...It is simply not possible for the power lock
>>> system to overpower the occupants...
>
>>Obviously you don't read Consumer Reports-- they broke this story a few
>>months back.  Crashes aren't involved.  Rather, heat and/or rain causes
>>the solenoids to malfunction, and the power locks stop working, trapping
>>drivers and passengers inside the car.

> You are right, sir, I DO NOT read Consumer Reports.  My experience
> with them has been that, although their durability tests are often
> spot-on, the remainder of their information is nearly useless.

Geez, Mr. Bahahahahah-afraid-to-give-a-real-name, why don't you
investigate the matter more thoroughly before casting aspersions?
Consumer Reports is correct:  there really *is* a power-lock problem
in 87-91 Camrys.  Toyota has now even set up an 800 number specifically
for owners who are seeing this problem.

If even Toyota admits the existence of the problem, why are you so
reluctant to do the same?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Goudreau			Data General Corporation
goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com		62 Alexander Drive	
+1 919 248 6231			Research Triangle Park, NC  27709, USA
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: johnc@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (John Cooley)
Subject: Re: _____ 1989 Jeep Cherokee Laredo 4wd-v6 ________
Summary: Huh?
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 23:35:09 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523
Followup-To: rec.autos

In article <7410@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com> delanzo@hri.com writes:

>Anyone have any experience with this vehicle? I'm am especially
>interested in the areas of reliabilty, maintenance costs and fuel
>efficiency.

In the original subject line, "this vehicle" was:
       _____ 1989 Jeep Cherokee Laredo 4wd-v6 ________

This would be an unusual vehicle.  The GM V6 was discontinued in Cherokees
by 1989, I think.  Cherokees came with either an inline 4 or an inline 6.
Maybe someone (of questionable intelligence - the V6 was not a particularly
goo engine) transplanted a V6 into a newer Cherokee.  I would avoid a 
vehicle with such a transplant.

       John Cooley
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Are there any Luxary AWD?
From: Karl Nordstrom <KXN2@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:12:39 EST
Organization: Penn State University

eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) says:
>
>mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu () writes:
>>
>>Porsche 911 is available with 4wd.
>
>now you're talking.  here's a sophisticated and complex system that's
>actually better than Audi's.
>
>Audi quattro!!  the cars that started the ball rolling.  The company
>with the most experience with the most refined AWD system your money
>can buy.

Well which is the better system, Porsche's or Audi's?
From: chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Rotary vs. Piston Engines
Date: 6 Nov 1992 19:36:05 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: regenmeister

From article <Bx7o1x.3v2@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, by mwbg9715@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark Wayne Blunier):
> chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael) writes:
>>However, a rotary engine the ratio of combustion chamber surface to
>>volume is much higher in a rotary engine than it is in a reciprocating
>>engine.  Because the combustion chamber surface chills the burning of
>>the fuel mixture, this fact makes the rotary engine much less efficient
>>thermally than is the reciprocating engine.  (It also makes the rotary
>>engine much dirtier.

> The larger surface area to volume results in higher emissions.  The rotary
> has a better themal efficiency than the reciprocating engine.

Close, but no cigar.  The higher surface area to volume ratio results in
less complete combustion.  This is because burning of the fuel/air mixture 
is quenched by the relatively cold surface of the combustion chamber.

Less complete burning has a number of results.  The first is REDUCED
thermal efficiency (in other words, more fuel is consumed to make the
same amount of horse power for the same period of time).  The second
effect is increased fuel consumption.  The third is increased emissions.

> Mark B

Chris Prael
Newsgroups: rec.autos