From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Todd Zeile
Keywords: Please explain
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:22:20 GMT
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article <1992Aug12.184538.28222@m.cs.uiuc.edu> ksmith@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ken Smith) writes:
>I think the real problem is that the Cards lack a solid consistent power/RBI
>hitter.  The Cards lead the league in fielding, are second in hitting,
>and have a promising young pitching staff.  But nobody can get from 3rd to


There are 2 things that jump out at you when you try to figure why the
Cards score so little with their BA, OBP and SA. One, they have an
anemic average with runners in scoring position, so they score fewer
runs than you would expect. Two, they lead the world in out made on the
bases(caught stealings, baserunners getting thrown out), and this is
a direct fault of Torre's mamaging style. He continues to run with guys
who just aren't worth the risk(ie. Ziele and felix Jose).
>get RBIs.  Lankford seems to do the best.  Trading for Gallaraga wasn't that
>dumb when you realize the Cards would just have the same problem with a better
>pitching staff if they hadn't traded.  It was a gamble that didn't pay off,
>but at least the problem was recognized.  Ziele isn't the power hitter they


No it was a dumb trade for several reasons. One they coul have signed Wally
joyner and never had to make a deal. Or they could have gone with Perry
at first using Craig Wilson or even calling up Royer or Rod Brewer to play
1B. None of these guys are great, but they all are capable of duplicating
what Andres has done, without costing us Ken Hill. Dal Maxvill chose to
trade Hill instead of Cormier, they could have gotten Andres and not cost
themselves nearly as much(if they had to have Andres which they didn't).


>100 RBIs in front of him, I think he'll hit much better.  Its good Brian
>Jordan is in Louisville right now, or everyone would be pressuring him to be
>the big guy, and he's not ready yet.  Without a Jack Clark sort of hitter,
>the Cards will remain an also-ran.

But Brian Jordan should have been in Louisville much sooner, they brought
him up to help him decide on baseball, and I can see that, but the day
he signed that deal, he should have gone back to AAA, instead of being
played over Gilkey. 

I've claimed all along that with the Cards, Zeile will end up at 1B
anyways. However this spring, they moved Royer from 3B to 1B, presumably
meaning they felt Ziele was their 3B for the near future. Less than
one year later he's demoted in favor of Woodson who's ~28 and who is
not a prospect, makes no sense.

The thing is that with Dmitri Young now in the Cards system, he looks
like he's the future 1b, he's playing 3rd now, but they say he isn't
agile enough and will end up at 1st or the outfield. So knowing that,
Zeile becomes your 3b now and in the future(Royer isn't doing anything
at AAA to supplant him, and the next best 3B in the system is a 2nd
round pick this year unless you move another player to 3rd like G.
Pena).

If this club was healthy, and playing with a manager who didn't constantly
run them into outs, they would have scored more runs, and if they
still had Ken Hill they might be in 2nd place instead of 5th.

My main fear is that Joe Torre is going to not only harm Zeile, Jose
and Lankford and Gilkey, but that in the future he'll do the same thing
to Dmitri Young, G. Pena, Dan Cholowsky, and pitchers like Allen Watson
and Brian Barber.

When he first got the job I was defending him saying give him a chance
to succed or fail, he's had that chance and he's blown it IMHO. Both
Torre and Maxvill are hurting the Cardinals.





Russ Smith
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"Why do we call it a near miss, when we really mean a near hit?"
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