HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: colins@garfield.cs.mun.ca (Colin)
Subject: Re: PIRACY
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 01:35:49 GMT

>In article <1992Nov17.004327.12839@cs.mun.ca> thom@cs.mun.ca (Thomas Clancy) writes:
>>colins@garfield.cs.mun.ca (Colin) writes:
>
>
>>[rest deleted]
>>  It's disturbing to know that someone with your attitude is a president
>>of a computer users group. It's not hard to see why the local Amiga dealer
>>has trouble selling software here. 
>
>I do resent that, and one can use both those statements with no clash, I
>said that some of the POINTS FOR piracy [IMO] are "VALID" and that I
>do NOT condone Piracy, how is this hard to understand? Just because I
>can "see where someone is coming from" does not mean I too, "agree"
>with them.
> 
> Funny how you conviently deleted the line that said I also see and
> AGREE with the "ANTI-PIRACY" side. I expressly said I do NOT 
> condone piracy, why did you chose to ignore this? I think we
 
  Don't give me that crap. I deleted them because they were stupid.
Here're the missing lines for you:

> While I don't condone piracy, I do believe that some of the points
>that the original poster had in favor of Piracy are valid, as are some
>of the anti-piracy arguments. Morally, piracy is probably wrong, but 
>then "morals" are all relevent to something else. ie: Having more
>than one wife in certain areas of the world is "moral" [oh, I can here
>Skip now "What's marriage got to do with piracy",  nothing, it has to
>do with an example of how DIFFERENT morals can be] }:-)

>Please excuse all typo's/spelling mistakes etc; I am in a bit of a rush!

 That 'morals' argument is so lame. Commercial software *does not* belong
to you. If a programmer makes a program, it's *his* not yours. If he
decides to sell it, then you can buy it. Otherwise you can't have it.
If you don't agree with the price, then make a better program yourself!
(Unless of course, it's shareware or public domain).

 Just because you're not taking the authors 'disk' doesn't mean you're
not taking his property.

> In closing, I said I can "see what others are talking about when it
> comes to reasons why, and that I support the ANTI-piracy side".

  You said no such thing. Look at the above paragraph beginning with
'While I don't condone piracy'. That's the closing you're referring to.

>  
>  Can't make it any simpler...

[Annoying 8 line .sig deleted. Why don't you go read 'Zen and the art of
the Internet'....big signatures are not welcome here]

Colin Stuckless
colins@cs.mun.ca
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 04:01:44 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.033922.11247@ncsu.edu> linville@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (John W. Linville) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.163159.881@nrlvx1.nrl.navy.mil> dyer@nrlvx1.nrl.navy.mil (Doug Dyer) writes:
>
>>run about that many processes every day.  Its CPU INTENSIVE apps that kill - 
>>ie morphers, ray-tracers.  A couple of those at a reasonably high priority is 
>>very noticable on any machine.  
>
>OS/2 ray-tracers never kill my system.
>
>John W. Linville

John, can you suggest a OS/2 ray tracer and where I can get it?

Thanks-
>|   John W. Linville                 Amateur radio:  KD4KHC                   |
>|   #include "std_disclaimer.h"      E-mail:  linville@catt.ncsu.edu          |
-- 
Dan Stephenson                                                 das9674@usl.edu  
"There once was a Lady from Hyde/who ate some bad apples and died/but while we
lamented/the apples fermented/making cider inside her inside!" 
                        -Member of the Court, Texas Renaissance Festival
From: FAA102@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sega stats. VS. Amiga
Date: 22 Nov 92 15:53:14 GMT
 <1992Nov17.034559.21580@ra.msstate.edu> <hgm.722004736@news.ncsu.edu>
 <1992Nov17.215302.29266@news.uit.no> <Bxzqrx.7FB@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
 <etxansk.722276283@garbod20> <udmx.722383399@mcl>
 <92327.005930DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu>
Organization: Penn State University

In article <92327.005930DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu>, <DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu> says:
>
>In article <udmx.722383399@mcl>, udmx@mcl.ucsb.edu (Richard Boyd) says:
>
>>In <etxansk.722276283@garbod20> etxansk@garbo writes:
>
>>>remilld@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Jason Remillard) writes:
>
>
>>I thought Sega did all of their game development on an Amiga.  This would
>>imply
>>that the capabilities (game-wise) are at least equal.
>
>Some Sega developers use PCs. Does that imply that PCs are equal game-wise
>to the Genesis? It implies nothing.
>

I agree, but all Genesis games aren't great. Sega, the company, uses Amiga's to
make games and all (ALL!) of there games are great.
EX. (Altered Beast, Sonic, Sonic2, Golden Axe, Afterburner. ETC. ETC. ETC...)


(Graphic wise)
Case closed.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: rjpogain@socs.uts.edu.au (r j pogainis)
Subject: Re: What Amiga Users Want In Future Software Applications!!!!
Organization: Computing Sciences, Uni of Technology, Sydney.
Date: 19 Nov 92 07:40:51 GMT

With all this fuss about wanting a Word calibre word processor for the Amiga, has anyone seen Final Copy II?  This is supposed to all the features that everyone seems to want!


--
  +-----------------------------------------+   //
  | Real Life  |  Robert Pogainis           | \X/Amiga - The Ultimate!
  | Email      |  rjpogain@socs.uts.edu.au  |
  +------------+----------------------------+ Free Latvia! Russian Army out!!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: New 100 mhz RISC chip, emulate '040 and 486 for fraction of cost.
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 06:32:17 GMT

I love how Byte sticks these things in sidebars...

Apparently, a company called IMS claims to have produced a 100 mhz
RISC chip that is dirt cheap... how'd ya like an '040 / 486 Amiga
that can emulate a Mac or ST or run Unix, for $1500?

Thom

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Re: Amiga/Video Toaster featured on TV program
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 07:00:58 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.205833.24298@sbcs.sunysb.edu> dtiberio@csws19.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
>In article <1992Nov18.132818.16235@zds-oem.zds.com> easton@zds-oem.zds.com (Jeff Easton) writes:
>
>>  After watching the show it became apparent to me why we have no
>>toaster for the A3000 or A4000.  These guys are spending all their
>>time shopping for matching Acura NSX's, corporate jets, playing
>>video games, designing robotic track lighting and musical big birds,
>>and watching star trek.  Sheesh!
>
>	NewTek does not want to make a version for the 3000 or the 4000.
>If they wanted to, they already would have. If Tom, Steve, and Rich at
>Industrial Color Labs can slide the endplate over for $25 so that it fits
>in an A3000, and NewTek can't, then that sure does tell you something
>about NewTek.
>
>	They are up to something and don't let them tell you otherwise.
>I confronted them about this and they just said 'we've been kicking
>around the idea of making it for the 3000'. Yeah, I really believe
>that now.
>
>	For more info call Tom at Industrial Color Labs.
>
>	1-800-MR PHOTO, in Syracuse NY.
>
>
>-- 
>      Amiga Graphics Association BBS (516) 473-6351  24 HRS, 14.4k baud
>PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT
>    "I don't have any experience in running up a 4 trillion dollar debt."

If you want a 4000/3000 Toaster Config, there is something called the
Toaster Cozy which is basically an expansion bus box that sits under the
computer...

Thom

I would assume that if it ran on a 3000, it would do so on a 4000.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
From: dyer@nrlvx1.nrl.navy.mil (Doug Dyer)
Date: 17 Nov 92 16:31:59 -0400
 <Bxu34t.6tB@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> <1992Nov17.162049.9038@ncsu.edu>
Organization: NRL SPACE SYSTEMS DIVISION

In article <1992Nov17.162049.9038@ncsu.edu>, linville@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (John W. Linville) writes:
> In article <Bxu34t.6tB@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason Balicki (KodaK)) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov16.223302.6261@ncsu.edu> linville@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (John W. Linville) writes:
>>>Finally, for those who devalue high processor speeds, try getting 30-40 back-
>>>ground processes running and then tell me how well your Amiga compares to my
>>>PC running OS/2.
>>
>>First, what kind of processes?  Are you talking full fledged apps or just 
>>screen savers and the like...
> 
> I'm talking about editors, games, word processors, networking software, drawing
> programs, etc along with clocks, calculators, etc.  I am running 31 of them
> right this minute, and the foreground process is essentially just as responsive
> as with almost nothing else running.
> 

Gee, I would HOPE so since calculators, word processors generally don't DO
anything while you aren't using them (IO bound for the last time...).  I too 
run about that many processes every day.  Its CPU INTENSIVE apps that kill - 
ie morphers, ray-tracers.  A couple of those at a reasonably high priority is 
very noticable on any machine.  

For those curious, many of my processes are commodities (gotta luv em :)

> John W. Linville
> 
> 
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> |   John W. Linville                 Amateur radio:  KD4KHC                   |
> |   #include "std_disclaimer.h"      E-mail:  linville@catt.ncsu.edu          |
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
-- 
Doug Dyer   *    STI   *    dyer@nrlvax.nrl.navy.mil    | "(2B) | !(2B) -> ?"
DISCLAIMER:  These are my opinions, and not necessarily |  LOWLY SHOPKEEPER,  
those of STI, NRL,  and most likely you too.            | WHERE IS YOUR PEZZ!
--------------------------------------------------------+---------------------
From: Aric.Caley@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: $2000 A500 config
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
Date: 18 Nov 92  11:18:00

> Organization: GE Power Generation
> From:  (Spike)
> Message-ID: 1992Nov17.184632.3083@crd.ge.com
> Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
> Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
>

<deletion>

> When I got the new AmigaWorld the other day, I thought
> it would be entertaining to see what kind of beefed-up
> A500 you could build for about the price of a high-end 486
> or a low-end 386 - I think this is still around $2000 (from
> a reputable dealer, anyway :-). This is what I came up with:
>
> A500: $300 from Tenex. This is a bit of a deceit, however,
> as you also need:
>
> 512K RAM expansion w/clock chip: $50 (who ever heard
> of a machine w/out a clock?)
>
> A530 Accelerator: $1100 from GVP. This swell box  is
> costly, but look what you get:
> - 40 mhz accelerated proc. speed
> - 120 MB HD w/ 11 ms access.
> - SCSI controller
> - Ram expansion bus
> - Mini-slot (for PC emulator et al)
> - Chip slot for math coprocessor
>
> 8 MB RAM in 1-meg SIMMs: $320 from GVP (Don't
> know if the recent RAM crunch affects this, though)
>
> 1084 Monitor: $300.
>
> The grand total for this package: $2070. For this,
> you get an Amiga w/ 9 MB RAM and 120MB HD
> running at 40 mhz.
>
> For added shits and giggles, I'd throw in:
>
> +$400 or so for a Multisync monitor and flicker-
> fixer. This would require cracking the case, though,
> I think.
>
> +$80 for 2.04 chipset and software upgrade.

I  think a better solution would be an A3000/16 from Creative Computers for
$1199.

That  covers  the  base  system,  the  clock,  the  1 meg chip memory, SCSI
controler,  flicker  fixer,  ram  expansion, 2.0 ROMs, plus lots of goodies
that the A500 wouldn't get, like expansion slots and a detachable keyboard.

Now add an '040 card for $829 (also from Creative).  We're now at a speed
much faster than the A530, and still under the price of your system (roughly
$2350 minus monitor, for your system; and $2028 for mine).  Add $232 for 8
megs
of ram (totaling 10 for the system) (Memory World).  That leaves $90 to
increase
the size of the hard drive.  So, you now end up with a system for about the
same price that has these advantages over the A500 system:

*  One piece case with everything inside, that looks nice.
*  4 empty slots for more goodies.
*  A much faster CPU (25Mhz 040 versus 40Mhz EC030)
*  Space for another 8 megs of ram.
*  Detachable keyboard.
*  Two megs of chip ram and ECS.

Pretty nice system, eh? :D

> Spike

 - Dances With Coyotes - World's slowest programer -Given that the universe-
 --- AKA Dances V2.0, Coyote, Magnet, Major, etc ---is infinate, and god is-
 --- Former Net-Lurker - YES, an AMIGA godammit! ---all powerful, would you-
 - If it says SEX and FREE BEER I'll mess with it! -like some toast?       -


--- Maximus 2.00
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@mickey (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Organization: J. Random Misconfigured Site
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:49:18 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
X-Posted-From: yorvic.york.ac.uk
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Jeffrey Grimmett 9999 (jgrimm@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com) wrote:
: 
: That's a sorry excuse.  It's that way of thinking that got us gas lines in the
: 70's.  In this case I'll quibble all I want to -- MY operating system will fit
: in less than 2 megs, while OS/2 reqires around 10x that to be effective.
: 

That's a stupid argument.  Gee, the OS on my Atari 800 occupies 10K, while
AmigaOS requires around 200 times that to be effective.  Get the point? 
There's a tradeoff between size and functionality.  OS/2 has greater
functionality; hence the greater size.

:
: Jeff Grimmett [SuperBitMap BBS]          * fido!1:202/1401.0 [619-460-7290]
:

Jerry J. Shekhel					jerry@msi.com
Spending a week working in the UK!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
From: dyer@nrlvx1.nrl.navy.mil (Doug Dyer)
Date: 17 Nov 92 16:39:53 -0400
 <1992Nov17.091008.8775@eua.ericsson.se> <1992Nov17.162605.9233@ncsu.edu>
Organization: NRL SPACE SYSTEMS DIVISION

In article <1992Nov17.162605.9233@ncsu.edu>, linville@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (John W. Linville) writes:
> In article <1992Nov17.091008.8775@eua.ericsson.se> etxpihl@eua.ericsson.se (Tomas Pihl) writes:
>>In <1992Nov16.223302.6261@ncsu.edu> linville@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (John W. Linville) writes:
>>>pay for all that sound and graphics muscle is if you really need it.  If you
>>>do need it, the Amiga is a decent deal on the low end, but for high-end work,
>>>PC peripherals are usually cheaper and often they are better supported and
>>>more 'state-of-the-art.'  How long did the Amiga wait for AGA?
>>
>>How long did the PC wait for the mouse? 10-15 years?
> 
> Well, that's a little before my time, but Windows and OS/2 have both been 
> around since the mid-80's, and I seem to remember my Dad using a mouse on his
> PC for a long time before that.  Anyway, I believe the IBM PC was introduced
> in '81, so I reckon it was no more than 5 years. 
> 
> At any rate, the PC (at that time) never claimed to be the state-of-the-art
> in user interfaces, the way the Amiga tries to claim state-of-the-art in video.

Who never claimed that? IBM and MS most certainly did claim that each GUI they
had was incredible and adequate for anyone.  What marketdroid wouldn't?  Don't
you remember IBM touting the ignored OS/2? or MS screaming about Windows? 
The amiga is not "state of the art" in video. but it IS state-of-the-art in
desktop-video. THE machine to beat, compare, and (the best one) be compatible
with.

an IBM is a state-of-the-art printer server, though :)
  
> 
> John W. Linville
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> |   John W. Linville                 Amateur radio:  KD4KHC                   |
> |   #include "std_disclaimer.h"      E-mail:  linville@catt.ncsu.edu          |
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
-- 
Doug Dyer   *    STI   *    dyer@nrlvax.nrl.navy.mil    | "(2B) | !(2B) -> ?"
DISCLAIMER:  These are my opinions, and not necessarily |  LOWLY SHOPKEEPER,  
those of STI, NRL,  and most likely you too.            | WHERE IS YOUR PEZZ!
--------------------------------------------------------+---------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jgrimm@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Jeffrey Grimmett 9999)
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not necessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 23:40:37 GMT

Quoth heikki.suopanki@phoenix.oulu.fi:
]> 
]> Jeffrey> What choice do you have?  Well, Winders NT ("Not Today...") or OS/2 2.0 are
]> Jeffrey> the only good choices I have seen so far.  
]> 
]> If you look around you might see Unix too.

If I look at MY TERMINAL I'll see Unix!  Well, actually a bastardized
stepchild called Xenix.  How do I like it?  Well, let me give you a hint:
I refuse to accept responsibility for missing characters in this message;
with the 7 whopping tasks running (three of them shells), this mighty
486 can't keep up with my typing.  Pathetic.  Next....

]> Jeffrey> I reread the remainder of this paragraph three times.  I still don't get
]> Jeffrey> your point.  
]> 
]> My point was that it is possible to get more different things done with
]> 486DX2-66 than with A3000. The guy whose article I was responding to
]> implied that that's not possible.  

Hm, well, I can get "more different things" done on my 020 at home than I can
on a i486 under winders or OS/2 or Unix.  Why do you think that is?

]> -Heikki


-- 
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@********************************************
Jeff Grimmett [SuperBitMap BBS]          * fido!1:202/1401.0 [619-460-7290]
jeff_grimmett@f1401.n202.z1.fidonet.org  * jgrimm@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com
 The opinions expressed in this message are thoughtful, reasoned, and logical.
      	It goes without saying that they are not those of my employer.
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: espensk@stud.cs.uit.no (Espen Skoglund)
Subject: Re: PIRACY
Keywords: semprini, spam, ni, naughty bits
Organization: University of Tromsoe
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:04:33 GMT

skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>> /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\ 
>>(  10 rem *** Nice program! ***            |  Letters: abcdefghijklmnopq    )
>> ) 20 print"Espen Skoglund is my name. ";  |           rstuwxyzABCDEFGHI   (
>>(  30 goto 20                              |           JKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ    )
>> \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/
>
>What a complete tool you are.  Not only is your .sig one of the most stupid
>that I've seen in quite some time, your program is a piece of crap.  You would
>be doing everyone a favor by staying out of a computer related profession.

Hmm.. Well, first I have to say that I'm NOT a tool (I understand that some
tools can be quite foolish, but if _that_ was your point, you have to specify
what tool you're thinking of). What's so crappy about my program? Would it be
better if my sig was an assembly code that opened a window, runned some nice
fractals in it while my name and email address bounced around? I guess not.
BTW, I find your sig quite "stupid" too, but I don't go around complaining
about it. Further discussions should take place via email. Come to think of
it, it should have done that two articles ago. (Didn't you post an article a
while ago complaining about everybody mailing you instead of posting articles?
I'm begining to undestand why?)

>How old are you?  12?  15?  Whose account did you hack into?  

What's the importance of age. I'm sure there are a lot of 9 year old geniuses
smarter than you are. And if it makes any difference, it was my account I
"hacked" into.

>Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate and Pirate Basher
>skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

-- 
 /---------------------------------------------------------------------------\ 
(  10 rem *** Nice program! ***             |   Letters: abcdefghijklmnopq    )
 ) 20 print"Espen Skoglund is my name. ";   |            rstuwxyzABCDEFGHI   (
(  30 goto 20                               |            JKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ    )
 \---------------------------------------------------------------------------/
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Falcon has a 16 bit bus
Date: 22 Nov 92 16:47:54 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Distribution: comp
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <28476@castle.ed.ac.uk> marks@castle.ed.ac.uk (Mark Steyn) writes:
> I've been following and interacting with this thread on atari.st.tech 
> and since nobody has posted anything about it here yet I thought that 
> I might as well add to the great A1200 vs Falcon debate.
> 
> Yes, no more will you have to argue about the Falcon's shared video bus.
> Now you have a much bigger stick to beat 'those who would advocate the
> Falcon in amiga.advocacy' with.
> 
> Yes, the Falcon has a 16 bit data bus and a 24 bit address bus.
> Just like the Mac LCII and Classic.  DSP or no, the Falcon doesn't 
> sound quite so attractive anymore, does it?

There were rumors to the effect that this was the bus interface it provided
at the "expansion slot", but are you *sure* that the internal bus is 16-bit?
I would really doubt it, so please check you facts before spreading more
mis-information.

> Now, does anybody want to compare the speed of the Falcon and the A1200?

Might be a good idea, but I'd wait until some fast-ram expansion devices
for the A1200 hit the market before trying to beat the world with a bunch
of chip-memory-only numbers.

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...
but no way officially representing:   uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
Commodore, Engineering Department     domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com