HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tom@afthree.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: RP's?
Date: 19 Dec 92 00:37:21 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

gustave@hougen.seas.ucla.edu (Gustave R. Stroes) writes:
>>I have read route descriptions (often for desert climbing) which
>>recomend bringing pro refered to as RP's.  As far as I can tell,
>>these are the very small brass stoppers that I have seen at REI.
>>I must admit that these devices do not look particularly strong.
>>Are they capable of arresting leader falls?  

I don't carry RP's -- but I wouldn't be caught without the equivalent
set of Chouinard (aka Black Diamond (tm)) (:-)) steel nuts.
Seriously, they are essential (IMHO) for sensible climbing in this
area.  In particular the larger (5 and 6) sizes could hold reasonably
long falls.  Rock around here has bizarre shallow features that won't
take a thin stopper in a decent placement, but the more equant steel
nuts can be placed perfectly.  I certainly don't think they are limited
to desert rock (whatever that is, I climb on "granite" (well, usually
quartz monzonite, or granodiorite, or tonalite, maybe event gabbro :-))
The brass nuts don't turn me on at all, steel for me baby in those small
sizes.

>>Or are they intended for aid climbing?  

I am sure they are fine for that, but I don't do much aid climbing.
In the "old days", I used plenty of Forest Mountaineering copperheads
for protection, now *they* were designed for aid climbing.  I still carry
an arrowhead on my rack, the huge cable on that thing inspires confidence.
In fact there is a climb on Mt Lemmon called "Copperhead #5", but I am
getting off on a tangent (It is 5.8 or 5.10 depending on your reach).

>>If you do take a fall on one, is it designed
>>to deform, i.e. one "use" only?  Any advice would be appreciated.

If you can get it out, I think you would be fine to use it again, regard-
less of how messed up it looks, but use your own judgement.  The main
thing that would make me think of retiring a nut would be a severely
kinked cable with some broken wires.

>>Also, if one were to take along a few pitons to use in case of
>>emergency on backcountry bailouts, which type of pitons would be
>>the most usefull/versatile?  How many sizes?

Why carry a hammer? Carry a good selection of inexpensive passive nuts
that won't break your heart to leave behind, and be optimistic.
A friend backed off a route leaving rocks and pebbles jammed in cracks
with slings around them (now that's economy!), but use your own judgement.

If you are not used to placing pins, you don't want to learn when you
are placing them for rap-anchors.  Seemingly solid pitons can surprise
you -- think about that next time you are clipping fixed pro!
--
	Tom Trebisky	ttrebisky@as.arizona.edu
...."There's no sense in being precise when you don't even
.... know what you're talking about." 
                       - John von Neumann  
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: kjl@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (K J Leiden)
Subject: Re: *So* many ways to do it wrong. (very long)
Organization: Lockheed
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 23:36:08 GMT

>flag@banco.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Steve Waddell) writes:
>
>>  . . . fall properly - DO NOT GRAB THE ROPE!
>>-Steve
>
>
In article <eric.724104115@milton> eric@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Hirst) writes:
>For longer falls in an alpine setting, flexibility is everything, as it
>allows you to roll into a tight ball and kiss your ass goodbye.
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Eric Hirst
>eric@u.washington.edu

My pro pulled 35 feet off the ground on an ugly crack on the 
Squamish Chief.  I knew I would deck since it was my only piece
(yeah, how could I be so stupid I think now).  As soon as I
started to fall, I spun around so I could spy the landing zone.
I thought, 'Sh*t, I'm dead', but then I thought I'm not going
without a fight.  About 15 feet from the ground was a 1 foot
ledge that I decided would probably Kiss My Ass Goodbye.
As I rapidly approached it, I decided I could live without my
legs so I jammed them into the ledge to save my back.  They took
some of the energy, but my tail bone did too.  I was flipped
head first and I forced myself to continue the roll.  I hit
the ground with my butt again and roll for another 15 ft before
coming to a stop.  

Amazingly, I broke nothing.  My head required stitches from
the rolling after the fall and my butt and feet were bruised
for a long time.

I was amazed at how fast my thought process was working as I
was falling.  Everything was in slow motion.  My mind was
thinking sacrifice what ever it takes to survive.  The survival
instinct was there and it was strong.  I don't know what
would have happened if I didn't absorb that ledge with my legs,
but I feel I would have been seriously injured. 

I had been on a climbing trip for 3 months prior to this.
I was certainly climbing at my best, physically & mentally.
The piece that pulled was 2 1/2 friend in a parallel crack.
I was hanging on the piece, unweighted it for 10 seconds,
reweighted it and it pulled.  I had just finished climbing
the famous Split Pillar and I was tired, thirsty and wanting
to go back to camp but one of my ropes got snagged on the
last rap.  I broke so many rules that day I almost deserved that
winger.

Be safe out there!
-- 
Ken Leiden
Sunnyvale, CA
kjl@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com 
Xref: sparky rec.climbing:4974 rec.backcountry:9660
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Tibet
Date: 15 Dec 1992 15:57:24 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Yeah, remember the Brit or OZ woman who was assulted/arrested by
the PRC in Tibet for wearing a Sgt Bilko (Phil Silvers) T-shirt.
The PRCs thought it was a picture of the Dalai Lama...
-- 
Ted....
From: tpm@ecs.soton.ac.uk (TP Monks)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: malicous user
Date: 15 Dec 92 14:50:36 GMT
Organization: Vision, Speech and Signal Processing Group

In article <1992Dec6.161244.15918@hellgate.utah.edu>, allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:

|> Once I see an apology from their malicious user to rec.climbing and to
|> the University of Canterbury since they were directly responsible for
|> the problem I will reconsider my position.

Lets not forget that he wasn't the malicious one, he just sent a post
which was obviously designed to taunt, and which people enjoyed responding
to.  These newsgroups are after all just for fun.

If you didn't send gifs I guess you needn't feel responsible, although
in real life it is normal to punish the ringleader in such circumstances,
so what the hell, be big, just send them an apology!

Tim

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Monks                                Vision, Speech and Signal Processing
tpm@ecs.soton.ac.uk                                    Southampton University
Tel: +44 (703) 592774                                   Fax: +44 (703) 592895
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: 2-way radios
Date: 15 Dec 1992 03:15:37 GMT
Organization: Sun
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver
Keywords: non-technical solution to 2-way radios

In article <1992Dec14.104107.25270@hellgate.utah.edu> allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:
>
>My partners and I do this quite frequently on long alpine routes.
>Many times we run pitches together just for speed.  The best example
>of were I did this recently was during a winter ascent of the Grand.
>We did the Direct Exum in 3 hours and the Upper Exum in 2 hours. We
>did 3 belays one at the beginning, one below and one above the Black
>Face. The rest of the time we simul-climbed in gale force winds.

I thought winter was December 21(2) through March 21(2)!  The French
would never have let you get away with calling something winter if
it did not fall between these dates.

Ah, the sporting life,

Bruce
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: gnray@world.std.com (Garry N Ray)
Subject: Re: Need Advice (on BD Bod Harness)
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:57:37 GMT

newbeb@bray1b.its.rpi.edu (Brian Samuel Newberry) writes:

> I am looking into climbing harnesses and would like some advice. I have seen a
>Black Diamond Bod in a local store for $50, and have been seriously considering
>buying it. Any comments as to its performance, comfortability, safety, ect.?
>E-mail me if you have any comments. Thanks!

I tried the bod and thought it too confining, as with every other harness
I tried, from Petzl to Arcterx to you-name-it. I finally decided on the BD
X harness, which is light and unobtrusive (used to climb in a wrapped, 1/2
inch tape swami belt). 

Bottom line is that you should try a bunch of harnesses before you buy
one. They're all safe, and the rest of your concerns ("performance,
comfortability, etc.") all have to do with your body and your fit. No one
can tell you which is "best" for you. I'd add that you might want to
consider gear loops and adjustable leg loops - the former for easy
racking, the latter if you want to do winter and/or alpine.
From: cbrown@islesboro.East.Sun.COM (Chris Brown - SunSelect Operations)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Devils Tower
Date: 16 Dec 1992 21:45:04 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc. - BDC
Distribution: world
Reply-To: cbrown@islesboro.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: islesboro.east.sun.com

Havent been there since 74, but I think you want the Durrance Route. It's hot, it's dry, and it's easy to follow. Beware the biting ants on top. Start early in the day (sunrise) and be off before the face temp hits 120. Bring lots of water.

The rappel is worth the climb.



Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: calexand@agsm.ucla.edu (Craig Alexander)
Subject: Re: Climbing around JFK Space Center in Florida
Organization: UCLA, Anderson Graduate School Of Management
Distribution: usa
Date: 18 Dec 92 12:28:14 PST

In article <1gt94bINNrdi@bmsrs.usc.edu> degennar@bmsrs.usc.edu (Ray) writes:
>Is there any climbing near JFK Space Center in Florida?
>

Climbing in Florida ???  It sure is flat out there.  I'd be surprised
if there is any climbing.  Maybe you could scale one of the abandoned
launch towers at the cape :-)

Craig Alexander


Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: 2-way radios
Date: 14 Dec 92 10:41:07 MST
Keywords: non-technical solution to 2-way radios
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept


A simple solution that does not need coded rope tugs.  First, agree
that the belayer will assume that the leader is always in need of a
belay.  Second the leader will assume that the belayer will not start
climbing until there is no more rope.  Thus the leader will always be
on belay while they are climbing and setting up the next belay.  Once
the leader is ready for the belayer to climb they pull up they extra
rope, when the belayer has no more rope they begin climbing.  Simple
But what about when the leader runs out of rope ?  This is were you
must be willing to simultaneously climb together until the leader gets
to a belay stance.  This must be agreed upon and both people must
understand the risks involved.

My partners and I do this quite frequently on long alpine routes.
Many times we run pitches together just for speed.  The best example
of were I did this recently was during a winter ascent of the Grand.
We did the Direct Exum in 3 hours and the Upper Exum in 2 hours. We
did 3 belays one at the beginning, one below and one above the Black
Face. The rest of the time we simul-climbed in gale force winds.

Cheers,

Allen R. Sanderson

Salt Lake City, Oootah


"Great spirits have always encounter violent opposition from
mediocre minds."
	- Albert Einstein
From: ian@watusi.seas.upenn.edu (Ian M Glazer)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: RE Rock gyms
Date: 15 Dec 92 18:12:34 GMT
Distribution: pa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

I was wondering if anyone knew of some rock gyms in the greater Philadelphia area.  Haw anyone been to Basecamp and if so how is it?  Thanks in advance.

Ian

*********************************************************
Ian Glazer	ian@eniac.seas.upenn.edu		*
"Sometimes there is strength and sometimes weakness;	*
Sometimes one is up and sometimes one is down." Lao Tzu	*
*********************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: kjl@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (K J Leiden)
Subject: Where to live if you love to climb
Organization: Lockheed
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 21:51:26 GMT



Suppose someone offered you a job (not any job, but your
dream job) and said you could work in any city in N. America.
Assuming rock climbing is one of your passions (this is r.c. 
afterall), where would you choose?

I've thought about this a bit.  I lived in Boulder, CO for 4
years and the quantity and diversity of the climbing within a 2
hour drive still boggles my mind.  Definitely would consider
moving back.

Also lived in Redlands, CA (home of FIVE.TEN) for 3 years.
at the base of San Gorgonio Mtn, the highest in S.CA (~11,000 ft).
1 1/2 hours to Joshua Tree and Tahquitz/Suicide.  I haven't really 
looked at the new Josh guide, but I imagine there are over 4000
routes now.  Year-round climbing is the biggest draw. 
Drawbacks - S.CA is very crowded, rush-hour seems to never end.  
The smog can be unbelievable (and I thought Denver was bad)

And for the last 3 years the San Francisco Bay Area.  Climbing 
opportunities here have really dissappointed me.  Any decent
multi-pitch climbing is 3+ hours away ruling out weeknight
and easy day trip type climbing.  The climbing within 1 hour is
very limited so it gets old quick.  Its great to have Yosemite/
Sierra Nevada nearby, just wish the crowds were less so I wouldn't
have to gorilla camp all the time.  Pinnacles offers good non-summer 
climbing.  Drawbacks - crowded,expensive, heavy traffic 

So what's next?

Reno/Tahoe

Salt Lake City/Provo (striking distance to Canyon Country)

Durango (ditto)

SO how about some comments from other netters, how climbing-
friendly is your town.
-- 
Ken Leiden
Sunnyvale, CA
kjl@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com 
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: nancy@wilbur.coyote.trw.com (Nancy Jensen)
Subject: Re: 2-way radios
Organization: TRW Inc., Redondo Beach, CA
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 20:01:10 GMT

janem@janem.mentorg.com (Jane Merrow) writes:

>After a couple of situations where noise of wind or water
>and the outcroppings along a route have made communication 
>between climber and belayer practically impossible, I noticed 
>a headset 2-way radio in an REI catalog and thought, "Well,
>maybe...". 

>Has anyone tried such a technological solution?  ...

Mused about it around a campfire, once.  With a radio headset,
belay signals could be exchanged in a normal, or even muted,
tone of voice.  But what happens to your partner's ears the
first time you forget about the radio, and scream out at the
top of your lungs "*OFF BELAY*!"?

-Nancy
From: esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Eric Sotnak)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Climbing gym in DC?
Summary: Are there any?
Date: 14 Dec 92 01:47:36 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York


  The subject line says it all.  Are there any climbing gyms in Washington
DC?  If so, where are they?


--
********************************************************************
Eric Sotnak                   |  One life.
esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu    |  One chance. 
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: landolt@nexus.yorku.ca (Paul Landolt)
Subject: Re: Southern Ontario Dolomite
Organization: York University
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:50:15 GMT

schuman@eacces.wpd.sgi.com (Aaron Schuman) writes:
>Does Southern Ontario have any climbing areas?  What about
>the Niagara Escarpment

There is some very nice climbing with a short distance of Toronto.
To the west of Toronto, near a town called Milton, has a good deal of
top-rope sites and other. Kelso park is another nice one in that area.

Up North of Toronto, headin up the bruce Peninsula is Lion's head and Mt.
Nemo (I think that's what it's called). _Very_ good climing up there.

Note that the rock is, for the most part, limestone. Very differnt, in
my limited experience, from what you might be used to out west. I was
climbing up in Squamish, Britsh Columbia (I _looked_ at the Cheiftan and
started to sweat!), and the rock there tendined to have more cracks and
flakes.  The rock around here seems to be more 'square'. I assume that it
is because of the composition of limestone that causes it to fracture with
right angles.

>I'll be spending some time in Toronto this year.

Good. Toronto has a few good stores to find decent-priced gear. Check out
the Mountain Equipment Co-Op down on Front street.  They also sell guide
books there for Southern Ontario.  The number is in the book.

Also, we have a farily cool climbing gym downtown, called Joe Rockheads.
Maxs out around 40', but there are some nice overhangs built there. The 
number is in the book.
-- 
J. Paul Landolt - Guest of:         | If it ain't broke, don't fix it...
York University - Toronto, Canaidia | ...unless you're a consultant  
+1 416 736 5257                     | ----------------------------------
InterNet: landolt@nexus.yorku.ca    | My opinions. All mine. So sue me.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: kjl@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (K J Leiden)
Subject: Where to live if you love to climb (Reposted)
Organization: Lockheed
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 15:26:02 GMT


(I originally posted this Friday afternoon.  It had 
already expired by Monday morning on my system.  If it
didn't expire on yours, sorry for the repeat)

Suppose someone offered you a job (not any job, but your
dream job) and said you could work in any city in N. America.
Assuming rock climbing is one of your passions (this is r.c. 
afterall), where would you choose?

I've thought about this a bit.  I lived in Boulder, CO for 4
years and the quantity and diversity of the climbing within a 2
hour drive still boggles my mind.  Definitely would consider
moving back.

Also lived in Redlands, CA (home of FIVE.TEN) for 3 years.
at the base of San Gorgonio Mtn, the highest in S.CA (~11,000 ft).
1 1/2 hours to Joshua Tree and Tahquitz/Suicide.  I haven't really 
looked at the new Josh guide, but I imagine its around 5000.  
Year-round climbing is biggest draw. Drawbacks - S.CA is very
crowded, rush-hour seems to never end.  The smog can be 
unbelievable (and I thought Denver was bad)

And for the last 3 years the San Francisco Bay Area.  Climbing 
opportunities here have really dissappointed me.  Any decent
multi-pitch climbing is 3+ hours away ruling out weeknight
and easy day trip type climbing.  The climbing within 1 hour is
very limited so it gets old quick.  Its great to have Yosemite/
Sierra Nevada nearby, just wish the crowds were less so I wouldn't
have to gorilla camp all the time.  Pinnacles offers good non-summer 
climbing.  Drawbacks of the Bay Area - crowded,expensive

So what's next?

Reno/Tahoe

Salt Lake City/Provo (striking distance to Canyon Country)

Durango (ditto)

SO how about some comments from other netters, how climbing-
friendly is your town.
-- 
Ken Leiden
Sunnyvale, CA
kjl@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: apurmal@us.oracle.com
Subject: Pine Canyon, Mt Diablo, CA ???
Organization: Oracle Corporation, USA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:10:51 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

     The Pine Canyon area of Mt Diablo doesn't have many routes
described in Bay Area Rock.  I'm intersted in where to go in that
area for 5.6 to 5.9 top roping.  Can anyone recommend some routes
which fit that category and/or give me a general description of
the area.

Thanks,

Tony Purmal
apurmal@us.oracle.com
From: davin@hardy.u.washington.edu (David Veale)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: backcountry touring in B.C
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:05:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Dec11.220500.1877
Organization: University of Washington

I'm planning on going skiing for about four days somewhere in the Cascades
or somewhere close to Washington, and have been wondering about skiing
somewhere up in British Columbia (Canada) that might be reasonably close
to the US.  I would be interested in a reasonably remote area that can be
reached by a day of skiing and that would have some nice bowls or good ski
terrain.  Do any of you Canadians have any suggestions?

				-Thanks in advance,
					David Veale
From: hostetlr@bucknell.edu (Jim Hostetler)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: WINTER IN THE WHITE MTNS.
Followup-To: rec.climbing
Date: 15 Dec 1992 14:04:43 GMT
Organization: Bucknell University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: macl52.bucknell.edu

I will be heading for the White Mountains of New Hampshire on the second or
third week in January. I expect to spend 4 nights out. Anyone have any good
ideas as to a route? I've made several winter trips to the these mountains
including going up Pine Link trail and traversing the Presientials,
climbing up the Ammonusic Ravine, Huntington etc. I'd appreciate hearing
about other routes.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: sshostek@sshostek.mentorg.com (Steve Shostek)
Subject: Re: helmets
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:57:04 GMT
Reply-To: steve_shostek@mentorg.com
Organization: mentor
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 

In article <168BD35E.60330903@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu>, 60330903@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu writes:
|> hey,
|>  
|> I saw a letter in a "rock and ice" a while back where a guy asked if biking
|> helmets would work for climbing.  Probably because of advertising or
|> liability, I guess, the ed. didn't really answer. I can imagine a falling
|> rock, or a fall onto rock having more impact than what would normally happen
|> when biking, but can't imagine it would make much difference at that point.
|> what do you people think?  I care for a couple reasons: I already have a bike
|> helmet (but not a climbing h.), b. helmets are more comfortable, and it seems
|> they are more rigorously tested anyway.
|>  
|> k. johnson

I know of at least 2 differences between climbing helmets and bicycle 
helmets:
- Most bike helmets use a compressable material to absorb impact. Once this
   material has compressed, it will do little to absorb the next impact. For
   this reason, this type of helmet is often retired after one crash. 
   Hopefully the biker doesn't have to retire, too.
- A lot of bike helmets have ventilation slots that could permit entry of
   small stones.

I want my helmet to protect me from multiple impacts if I am (god forbid)
in such a situation, and I want protection from small stones. I figure if
anything bigger than a fist comes down it will probably break my neck
anyway, if not my helmet. 

Course if yer choice is a bike helmet or nothing, take the bike helmet.

-- 
* steve_shostek@mentorg.com         | What avail are forty freedoms           *
* sshostek@mentorg.com              | without a blank spot on the map?        *
* {uunet, attunix}!mntgfx!sshostek  |                                         *
*                                   |          --Aldo Leopold                 *