HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ann@cco.caltech.edu (Ann Terese Heil)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Social inhibitions to environmental change
Date: 15 Dec 1992 16:33:00 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: alumni.caltech.edu

I came in late to this discussion so bear with me if this has been said 
already or I missed the point or something:
 
radzy@ICSI.Berkeley writes:
 
>Does *anyone* know of *any* city that does a single-stage
>processing on their sewage and then sells the resulting sludge
>to local farmers?  Or even double-stage processing?
>
>Fertile Blessings!
 
and Bill Eichman follows up with:
 
>The truth is that most inland sewage processing plants haul their sludge
>to farmers fields or to state forests and spray it onto the land. In it's
>final stage pathogens are at a low enough concentration for this to be a
>completeloy safe and common practice, well within state and federal
>health guidelines. It's only the largest city plants mear rivers and
>oceans that dump sludge and effluent in the way you describe-- and most
>of these are older plants operating under 'grandfather' protections from
>current guidelines.
 
First of all, note that there are very few sewage treatment plants
that still do "single-stage" processing of sewage.  The Clean Water Act
of 1977 basically required all sewage treatment plants to do 
"double-stage" processing.  There was a loophole for getting around
the double-stage processing - known as 301(h) - but that loophole has
been getting tougher and tougher to take advantage of.
 
Anyway, the Clean Water Act in 1977 also made it illegal to dump sludge
to the ocean.  It took a while for larger cities to comply, such as New
York, but I believe that at present all ocean dumping of sludge has
been eliminated in the United States.  As Bill mentioned, there are a 
number of cities that sucessfully use direct land application of sludge for
fertilizer.  The City of Los Angeles is among them.  The County of Los
Angeles does not use its sludge for direct land application but rather
composts it and makes it into soil amendments (in the LA area, you can
go down to your local Home Depot and pick some up under the brand name
Kelloggs).  For those into numbers, currently about 30% of all sewage
sludge is beneficially used on agricultural or non-agricultural land, 
or converted into commercial fertilizers and soil amendment products.
The rest of the sludge is is either incinerated or landfilled.
 
One last thing, for those interested enough in sewage to have made
it this far - the main concern with using sludge as fertilizer is not
bacteria or viruses, but metals in the sludge which can accumulate in
soil and crops.
 
peace
ann

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: L629159@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Looking for names of gods and goddesses for baby
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 01:35:14 GMT

From: jblain@ac.dal.ca

In article <1gisk1INNms6@gap.caltech.edu>, ann@cco.caltech.edu (Ann Terese Heil)
> I am expecting my second child in a couple of months, and would like
> to give her/him the name of a god or goddess or mythological character
> as a middle name.  I am not particular about the mythology from which
> the name is drawn.  My first born's middle name is Ra, after the
> Egyptian sun god.  Any and all suggestions would be very welcome!
>
> I know this subject was discussed a couple of years ago.  Did someone
> save a file of names that could forward it on to me?
>
> peace
> ann
>
I'd suggest getting hold of a dictionary of mythology! A list of names
could rapidly get kind of long . . .

However if you have particular qualities, aspects, or whatever in mind,
I'm sure people on the net could contribute names from different pantheons
that fitted those qualities. How about a Moon name to balance the Sun of Ra?
There are lots of female ones (Luna, Selene, etc, etc) but fewer male. The
Egyptian moon god was Sin, but that would seem to be ruled out . . . what
were the Celtic moon deities (female and male)?

You could also try alt.mythology
 --

	Jenny		Jblain @ ac.dal.ca

Another suggestion:

  (I believe from your original post that you are a native speaker of
English so...)  Consider the pagan origins of traditional names:

Godfrey -- A priest of Frey
Godwyn -- A priest of Weden
Thurston -- Thur's stone (a jewel?)
..

  Our language has changed so much that we frequently fail to recognize
the meaning of that which is familiar.

Al Moore
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: lrabe@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lee A Rabe)
Subject: Yule
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:35:02 GMT


Have a Happy Yule-time, everyone!

See you all in the New Year.

TopCat
From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley Sebastian Kaos)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Living responsibly
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:07:18 GMT
Organization: ABB Systems Control Company, Inc.


In article <gate.RPkLVB1w165w@pil.UUCP>, alizard@pil writes...
>Re: Living responsibly
> 
>> From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
>> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
>> Subject: Living responsibly
>> Date: 10 Dec 92 17:26:47 GMT
> 

(clip!)

>I don't think that anyone around here would disagree substantially with the
>content of this post. This is exercising individual choice in lifestyle in
>a responsible manner. On the other hand, how large a difference in terms of
>resource / energy usage will it make if the targeted "overconsumers" were to
>practice this sort of a lifestyle? Critical resource exhaustion (the big one
>in this civilization seems to be oil, but there are others less well known
>to the public. Do we run out in 2020 instead of 2005? 
> 
>This isn't a complete solution. No one solution to this problem is a complete
>solution...........

(clip!)

I was not proposing this lifestyle as a solution or even 
partial solution. It's just a responsible way of living and 
that seemed to be what the original question was about. 
There are lots of us out here that feel pretty bad about 
having enough to eat and a nice bed to sleep in when we see 
some poor guy camping under a bridge, gnawing on a piece of 
crusty bread. That is what this post was about.

	The only thing that really applies to global 
environmental change in this was the part about 
writing to product manufacturers. That is a painfully slow 
slow but none-the-less real way to affect what we have 
available for consumption and drive industry to create 
products that are environmentally sound.

(clip!)

>.............. we need to buy time to make a package of measures both
>to reduce resource consumption by the average entity and to allow REPLACEMENT
>of resources via space resources. Because it will take a number of years
>for either replacement or conservation measures to take effect. 
>blessings
>                                                 A.Lizard

Again, the new resourses being brought in are fine, but the 
real problem is being able to place those resourses in a 
renewable cycle. The timber industry is a good example of 
short term profit stabbing long term existance in the back.
In order to be long-term feasable, very industry needs to push 
their technology to be reusable and cleaner. Those lunar and 
off-planet origin resourses will just be more useless crap after 
we have used them up unless the basic philosophy behind use of 
resourses changes.



			- Ashley
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 09:44:23 GMT

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
: >:  
: >: An armed society is a paranoid society where parents too often see their
: >: children put into the ground before they are.  
: >
: >The firearms have little to do with it - except as one means to kill others.
: >The problem is the groups of people who feel hopeless about improving their
: >lives or the lives of their children. That is a good part of the cause of
: >the violence.
: 
: So in other words, an armed society is not necesssarily a polite
: society, as the hoary old saying goes.  A society with with good self-
: esteem and a sense of hope is a polite society, guns or no.

Correct - just as an unarmed society is not necessarily polite. We need to
solve the real problems facing this country. The firearms and drugs etc
will then become minor issues.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.magick
From: adam@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca (Adam Mark)
Subject: help wanted: magic anyone?
Summary: i am looking for one
Keywords: pagan magic spell
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Distribution: alt
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:14:40 GMT

            Hello pagans and sorcerers. I 
am presently unemployed and am looking
for money desperately. If anyone can help either directly or with
a reference to an 'alternive' technique(i am trying all the secular ones)
plaese let me know.  Thanks in advance

----------------------------------------------
Through the darkness of futures past
the magician longs to see
one chance out between two worlds
Fire walk with me				from "Twin Peaks"
--------------------------------------------
From: hz225wu@unidui.uni-duisburg.de (Micaela Pantke)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Questions and another poem AND A FURTHER SONG!
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Date: 15 Dec 1992 10:34:54 +0100
Organization: University of Duisburg
Reply-To: hz225wu@unidui.UUCP (Micaela "Stayka" Pantke)
NNTP-Posting-Host: unidui.uni-duisburg.de
Summary: A Song To Praise Her
Keywords: Hi Dan + Song: To Praise Her

Hi there - Stayka is here!

dan@eye.com (Dan Loewus) writes:
DL> Hello to all,
DL> 
DL> I am new to the group, but have wrote a song this year that may apply 
DL> here. It was written for singing on Hollows Eve.

(Wonderful song 'untitled' deleted - well, not actually, of course I saved 
it for the times to come...)

Hiya Dan! Hope to read more of your stuff - I really DID like it! 

And as we are in songs right now - I have another one which is fit for
rituals and to invoke the Goddess... I think it's just fitting for winter 
solstice, after which light and life will return to be cherished. 

----------------------------- CUT HERE -------------------------------

TO PRAISE HER
-------------
by Stayka deyAvemta
(c) 1991

The song of my life starts anew
The dance of fairies in the dew
I'm whirling while I praise Her brightness 

I never need to fear a thing
My Mother teached me how to sing
And I'm flying free - I'm glad to be!

The voice of thunder howls and threatens
My song is lustrous and it sheathes
I'm laughing while I praise the Goddess

I never need to run away
For She's my shield, and She's the way
So I'm flying free - I'm glad to be!

My Mother I would like to thank you
For I'm so happy without blue
I'm dancing while I praise Your kindness

I'm sparkling while I'm dancing high
I shed my light throughout the sky
And I'm flying free - I'm glad to be!

----------------------------- CUT HERE -------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Micaela "Stayka" Pantke  | 
Westhoffstrasse 111      | Beware of girls with flaming red hair and
W-4200 Oberhausen 11     | blue eyes! - I know, I belong to them...
Germany                  | 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: Start again.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:52:27 GMT
Organization: n.o.y.b

In article <1g8p4dINN6e7@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> SL500000@brownvm.brown.edu (Robert Mathiesen) writes:
>The real problem may lie in the fact that almost half of any given popula-
>tion is below average with respect to any given ability, and a sizeable
>pert of that half may well be *way* below average.  What happens when a
>society has advanced to the point (by technology or by any other form of
>progress) when this sizeable part no longer has any skill (with respect
>to that ability) to contribute to society.  This sounds like a real pre-
>scription for disaster to me!  Should we start thinking in terms of (if
>you'll pardon a somewhat pungent way of phrasing it, for the sake of a
>quotable aphorism): "Jobs for the stupid!"?  (I mean jobs that satisfy,
>either in terms of money or something less tangible, for the lower part
>of the distribution of the population.)
>
Actually, what this leads ot is an even more important question: what happens
when most (> 75%) of *all* of our production is automated? The *real* post-
industrial society, or perhaps we should call it a post-scarcity society.
When there is *no real *NEED* to work* to live. How shall we organize 
such a society? Capitalism would be absurd, an exercise in pointlessness.
What would, or should, we do? This is *not* an absurdity; such a time is
clearly visible, within a century, assuming disaster does not overtake us.

	mark

Xref: sparky alt.pagan:14447 alt.magick:6391
From: cn573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ray Henry)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.magick
Subject: Re: help wanted: magic anyone?
Date: 21 Dec 92 01:14:14 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Well, I am in the same boat concerning unemployment. However,
I would be glad to include you in my Work. Perhaps you could
return the favor. It would be nice if we both found something
soon.

Blessed be all,

Antryg
-- 
Ray Henry - cn573@cleveland.freenet.edu

Nice, boring, empty sigfile goes here.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda)
Subject: Re: /What is a Pagan?  
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 22:25:11 GMT

In article <fWvYkG5@quack.sac.ca.us> pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) writes:
>In article <1992Dec12.160457.6276@athena.cs.uga.edu> 
>tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda) writes:
>>>In <fWk3agN@quack.sac.ca.us> pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) writes:
>>>>A'ight. I'll buy that too. But, I think you have to proceed with
>>>>caution, because if you put the field of opposites together, there is
>>>>no guarantee that you can reverse it. So, if you take the two
>>>>opposites of you and me and are able to perceive the ONE, then there is
>>>>no more *you*. By Hindu dogma, *you* vanish in a puff of light, into the
>>>>transcendent.
>>And is "vanishing" something we should strive for?  (or "simply realize in
>>the satori sense).

>>I would think that all pagans would completely reject
>>the idea of a monistic universe, where everything is really illusion and no
>>particular gods exists anyway.
>>Wouldn't ya'll agree?
>
>Why would you think that? Wouldn't that be dogmatic? I am aware of no
>such rules of paganism, perhaps others will care to comment. I think if
>you look around you will even find atheistic pagans. Hinduism, the
>collected beliefs of the pre-Islamic Indian subcontinent, is clearly
>pagan,

Let's see, there are two defninitions of pagan:  1) not a Jew, Christian, or
Muslim, and 2) those who those gods and not the One true God.  

In (2) we are talking about the individuals who are dedicated to a deity, a
bit more so than having a patron saint, so to speak.  Today, these pagans,
or some say "neo-pagans", believe in these deities.  Now, if they wish to
cancel all of their specific beliefs out with some vague Taoist notion of
the "Undifferentiated" then so be it, although I am inclined to think most
neo-pagans really want to retain their personal existence and meet their
deity.    

Ted K
University of Georgia
From: michael@albert.bu.edu (Michael Chaplin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Yule celebrations
Date: 10 Dec 92 21:34:51 GMT
Organization: Boston University
In-reply-to: cn573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu's message of 9 Dec 92 17:17:48 GMT

In article <1g59nsINNfiv@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cn573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ray Henry) writes:
  =Many of the trappings of the traditional Christmas season were
  ="borrowed" from more pagan celebrations. The signifigance of trees
  =and mistletoe are just an example. I like to decorate the house
  =(and especially my Work room) with evergreen, mistletoe, and holly.
  =Later that night (Yule) I go into my back yard and perform a private
  =ceremony to the God and Goddess. Afterwards, I end the night with a
  =mug of hot cider. Wonderful.

  =I would love to hear how everyone else celebrates the Yule season.

Well, I send out Yuletide cards, decorate a Yuletide tree, and give
those I love Yuletide gifts. Mixing some hot cider with orange pekoe
tea and a bit of pure maple syrup makes a great Yuletide concoction.
Ah, the quiet winter evenings!

I'm still working on Yuletide Carols, though. :^)

Chaplin.
--
=========================================================================
Michael A. Chaplin           If you want *their* opinions, ask *them*.
michael@albert.bu.edu ....The Einstein Papers Project, Boston, Mass., USA
chaplin@husc.harvard.edu ....Harvard University, Cambridge, Mass., USA
From: alizard@pil
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: What the hell to do for Solstice
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 17:34:14 PST

Re: Re: What the hell to do for Solstice
 
> From: hz225wu@unidui.uni-duisburg.de (Micaela Pantke)
> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
> Subject: Re: What the hell to do for Solstice
> Date: 15 Dec 1992 10:21:38 +0100
> Hi there - Stayka is here!

Could someone who knows something about Internet connects in Germany
find this woman a free/cheap public access Internet node local to her?
I can't be the only person on alt.pagan who occasionally feels like responding
to her posts via E-mail.

blessings...
                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== sum saurus, sum saurus, sum maximus saurus! ====== 93 ======
 (slogan contributed by Jessica Mc Geary)  (translated by Murray Altheim)
Mail to me should be sent to:       |  There are no fnords in this sig file.
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM     |  autoreply to address I posted this
     ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard     |  solstice or two for my answer.
alizard@seer.mystic.com             |              Kallisti!
^^^use ONLY if all else fails       |  PGP2.0 public key available on request

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Public Image Limited VBBS (510) 831-3634 [MUDS] Free Internet Access.
Subs-On Request/PCP Via CALOAK...     VBBS 5.608

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: jnewman@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: Going into Space...
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:43:47 GMT

ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) writes:
> Well, considering that the march of science goes in leaps an
> sputs, I would not count on technology that we have not
> perfected yet. <snip> What gives us the right to change Mars? I
> know we can only change a little dirt under a bubble, but there
> are theories ...  on how we could change the whole planet ....
> Do we have the right to do this? I'm not sure we do.

  Well, what gives us the right to change *anything*?  I think we have to cease
talk of rights and talk about responsibilities.  We CAN colonize Mars.  That
gives us the "right".  Our responsibility comes into play here: we have to do
this responsibly. Here's an alegory:

  A spacefaring animal must eat.  It does this by settling for short periods of
time on certain planets that hold what it needs to survive.  Then it moves on,
grazing elsewhere.  

  A parallel:

  A bison must eat in order to survive.  It does this by settleing for short
periods in plains that hold what it needs for nurishment.  It eats, then moves
on, careful not to overgraze.

  We, as humans have a nasty habit of overgrazing.  We will change this or die. 
That's a perfectly natural way of dealing with things.  Animals that consume
too much die off due to their inefficiency, and those that don't, survive to
try and improve.

  I think we have to consider what we call artificial as opposed to natural. 
Until very recently, it was understood that Nature had much to do with our
doings.  We are defying nothing by moving to Mars.  If we wish to survive,
however, we must be careful not to overgraze.

  I think also that changing the face of Mars is not neccessarily "bad". 
"Good" and "Bad" are purely human constructs.  Tao teaches me that thigs happen
and they have effects.  This is based on the nature that we live in.  We are
purely incapable of destroying either this planet or Mars.  The most
devaststing things we could unleash might kill off a few species, probably
ourselves included, make the air dirty for a trivial ten millenia, and then
things would be fine again.  What's ten thousand, even a million years to the
Earth?  Not much.  But we are important to ourselves.  Touched by Magic, we
understand, or at least think we do, that we *should* be here.  Our primary
problem should be self preservation via natural preservation.

			These opinions are, of cours, mine.
			Why would I care about anyone else's?

			-Grendel 2.0
From: cn573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ray Henry)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Tree Prayin' Fey Talkin' Foo'
Date: 21 Dec 92 00:56:40 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Earlier in this thread, Ailsa states that all you need do to hear
a tree is be calm and listen. I can well believe this. The problem,
for me at least, is that it is too simple. Ever have that problem?
In matters occult, I am near deaf, blind, and mute. All my Work
is done primarily through ritual and ceremony as that is the only
way I can gather an appropriate amount of energy together to do
anything with. Occasionally, I can get a gut-feeling about something
or someone, but that's it. I know it is only a matter of defeating
the codes I was raised on and opening up, but that is easier said
than done. I am trying, but not having much success.

If any of you know any exercises, rituals, etc that could help me
open myself up to the wonderfully magical world we live in,
PLEEEEEEZE let me know. I am tired of living by candlelight while
the world walks in sunlight.   :)

(I figure my gut-feelings are a start. What say you?)

Blessed be all,

Antryg
-- 
Ray Henry - cn573@cleveland.freenet.edu

Nice, boring, empty sigfile goes here.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan