HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: Why I became an Athiest (was: frustrations with christianity)
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:26:50 GMT

Maddi's initial posting suggested that the reason she adopted atheism
was that she found her family's practice of Judaism unsatisfactory.

If Maddi had written that she is an atheist because she finds it
appealing, comforting, or intellectually parsimonious, I would have
no objection.

But when a person writes that they are atheists because they found
Judaism unappealing -- and come to that conclusion after intensive
study of Jewish practice and tradition -- I am bothered; I would
like to assume that a person who truly understands Judaism would
not find atheism appealing.

Maddi's statement was, however, less compelling.  She did not (so
far as I can tell) study Judaism intensely.  Instead, she adopted
atheism based primarily on very limited exposure to serious Judaism.
Using that as a rationale for atheism does a disservice to atheism
as well as to Judaism. 

Imagine what convinced atheists would say if I entered alt.atheism
with some weak arguments against it based on what had happened to
me when I was 6 or 10 or 15 years old; they would -- with justification --
tell me to go back and study atheism first.  (Read the alt.atheism
FAQ; that is exactly what they assert.)

Thus, Maddi, if you find atheism appealing, I won't argue with you.
But attributing your atheism to Judaism's weaknesses is unfair to
Judaism (given your limited exposure to serious Jewish practice)
and demeans atheism (since it implies you adopted it out of ignorance
about Judaism).

(Incidentally, part of the problem may be that the set of people
who truly understand both atheism and Judaism is VERY VERY small;
furthermore, anyone who claims to know both and adopt one will be
rejected by the other.  


-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: medb@cc.newcastle.edu.au (Dieter Britz)
Subject: Life is Like a Glass of Tea, II
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 09:54:02 GMT

Hello all,
I am not sure whether the message I posted yesterday ever got through (I don't
normally use NEWS), but it had a smallish error in it, which I want to correct.
I pointed out that the book which I recommend:

Richard Raskin, "Life is Like a Glass of Tea", JPS, ISBN 0-8276-0437-8, $20,

may not have the author's own painting on the cover, whereas the Danish
edition does. This is not so, the US edition does indeed have the painting.
Moreover, I should NOT have recommended ordering from the Danish publishers,
since they have an agreement with the US outfit. So please take note, if you
want to buy this excellent book, get it from JPS (or your book shop), in the
US. Sorry to mislead you.

D. Britz alias britz@kemi.aau.dk
--------------------------------
From: eburk@bugs.sfsu.edu (Eli Burk)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: critique of short-story
Date: 14 Dec 92 23:25:23 GMT
Reply-To: eburk@bugs.sfsu.edu (Eli Burk)

I was reading a short story called "Chinese in Haifa". A Jewish  
great-grandmother says the following when she is drunk. She was talking to  
the
main character, who is a Chinese man in his 50's. The man is a friend of  
her
son.
	"No! That's a bad joke! I'm not dying, not yet! I'm only being  
practical.
Who wants to walk into in my room and find me home, but not home. It would  
kill
my friends, I mean, they're not chickens. So I keep moving. Maybe I'll go  
in the airplane or someplace maybe where they can send a body home, but  
they pack me up. It's easier. I fall down and maybe I won't scare somebody  
to death. I don't know. Maybe you're right. If you never start-- how can  
that be? Everybody has a family... You made me talk and I don't even know  
what I'm talking about, Bill."

This does not seem to me to be something that a Jewish great-grandmother
would say.

Any comments.

** email please **



--
Basic training in the techniques of cheerleading, including arm motions,  
cheer-
leading rountines, voice projection, double stunts, pyramid design, along  
with
a development of safety guidelines, crowd control and teamwork. [class at  
UNLV]
eburk@futon.sfsu.edu -or- eburk@sutro.sfsu.edu -or-  
eburk@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene)
Subject: Re: JforJ ad in Newsweek
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 22:45:16 GMT

One person wrote:

>>       J4J has a yearly budget in excess of $100 million, according to
>> my rabbi.

Let's clarify our terms here.

* the "Jews for Jesus" organization has a budget around $ 10.1 million 

* Jews for Judaism estimates that in excess of $100 million is
  spent by Xian groups in their attempt to seduce Jews to Xianity.

* There are, at last count, over 450 groups whose goal is to
  seduce Jews to practice Xianity.

> trying to "thin out" Judaism.  Personally, I am offended at these
> adds.  They portray a "Jewish-looking" (aka eastern Europe
> characteristics) older woman, and use a Jewish star instead of an "o"
> in the word "for."

Reposting again...

This is the introduction to a 5 or 6 page pamphlet
published by Jews for Jesus:

-----------------------------------------------------------
|
| What evangelical Christians should know about
|                           JEWS FOR JESUS;       [the "O" in FOR is
|  A C0NFIDENTIAL REPORT:                           a six-pointed star -RL]
|    _not_ to be distributed to Non-Christians
|
| \    / HAT WE BELIEVE...
|  \/\/
|
|     While others are content to call themselves "inter-
| denominational" or "interfaith," we define ourselves
| as evangelical fundamentalists and we seek the coop-
| eration of individuals and Christian bodies  which
| can be so described by their work.  Though we will not
| allow ourselves to be committed to any one segment of the
| church, we believe in affiliation with a local church and
| in accountability to the church for service and discipline.
|
|     We feel that we are an arm of the local church.  The
| calling of those who minister with Jews for Jesus is
| primarily that of evangelists, and we're always mindful of
| the fact that we should not usurp the authority of the local
| pastor.  As we effectively win and disciple Jewish people,
| we feel that they should either take their place in a local
| church of evangelical character, or establish a congrega-
| tion and call their own minister.  We feel it is our duty to
| aid the church at large, and we consider ourselves as a
| church, we believe in affiliation with a local church and
| in accountability to the church for service and discipline.
| tion and call their own minister.  We feel it is our duty to
| aid the church at large, and we consider ourselves as a
| working arm of the body to gather in the Lost Sheep of the
| House of Israel.
|
|-------------------------------------------------------------

--
Robert A. Levene     Internet: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu
  "/  //  / /"         Bitnet:   RXL1@APLVM
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: The Crucifixion Prophecy
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 21:05:42 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.184649.12289@colorado.edu> wouk@alumni.cs.colorado.edu (Arthur Wouk) writes:
>here is my KILL file entry at the moment:

  "This is My Kill File" by Wouk

  Wasn't this the joke thread? Must clean my glasses.
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Refuting Xian Missionaries (README)
Date: 14 Dec 1992 14:46:51 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
Distribution: world
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.23.70

My great-aunt Kate, who was a fervent Catholic, had the following
technique for dealing with Jehovah's Witnesses.  When they came
knocking on her door, she invited them in for a cup of tea.
She then engaged them in polite conversation until they were
squirming in their seats.  It was senna tea.  They never came back.

(For those who don't know it, senna tea is a very strong laxative.
My father swears this is a true story.)

Brendan.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jjsulliv@COLBY.EDU (Nice Young Lady(tm))
Subject: Re: Jewish Joke of the Day
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <jjsulliv@COLBY.EDU (Nice Young Lady(tm))>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:34:48 GMT

agw@dsm.fordham.edu (Art Werschulz) writes:

(skips body of joke)

Santa bent his head down to the lad, and whispered quietly, "A gezunte
on deiner kopf, yingele."

	For the non-Yiddish speaking population, what does this mean?

	JJ
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: horen@netcom.com (Jonathan B. Horen -- [408] 736-3923)
Subject: Re: Jewish STEREOTYPES - the last time
Organization: NetCom -- OnLine Communication Services
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 01:25:48 GMT

In article <Dec19.212615.34421@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> mk568652@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Mitchell Kotler) writes:
>|> 
>|> 	I am sure that the sages had something to say about laughter, (they
>|> had something to say about everything else <G>), I my ignorance of their
>|> teachings on the subject, I will leave you with my own.
>|> 
>|> 	Laughter is good for the body, Laughter is good for the soul.  Try
>|> it sometime.
>|> 
>  
>ANSWER:
>
>1. Laughter is good, I agree. Self-mockery in front of non-Jews is not.

Why not? Oh, I see -- answer below. OK.

>2. Self-mockery brings about the idea that if Jews can mock themselves, 
>   then anyone can, it's like 'open season'.

It *is* `open season'. For everyone. On everyone. But nobody is forced
to pull the trigger. G-d created everyone -- Jews and non-Jews -- and
gave all of us "zchut b'chira" (freedom of choice).

It sounds to me like you'd want all Jews to be like Daffy Duck during
duck-hunting season (`open') -- that we should cover-up and hide; or
maybe we should buy-off on Yasser Arafat's program, and `get the hell
outta Dodge'.

>3. If we want some respect as a Jewish people, in this world dominated by
>   Christians and Muslims, then there has to be a better way. I can't see
>   self-mockery in the face of non-Jews (i.e., not among Jews) as a way 
>   to achieve this. Do we want to be respected or do we want discrimination?

Respect is something one earns, as an individual. I no more appreciate
someone who says "I respect you Jews", than MLK would have appreciated
someone who said "I respect you Blacks". Respecting ethnic/racial/sexual
groups has no meaning. I repeat, we respect individuals. 

"Self-mockery" (as you call it) is not a method by which one earns
another individual's respect -- neither is it something which prevents
the earning of that respect.

People respect other people "because" (of whom the other people are); people
discriminate against other people "in spite of" (whom they themselves are).

Chag Channukah Sameach!

Jonathan B. Horen       | A man should not strive to eliminate his complexes,
SysAdmin/SrTechWriter   | but to get in accord with them; they are 
Tel: (408) 736-3923     | legitimately what directs his conduct in the world.
Email: horen@netcom.com |                     -- Sigmund Freud
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (David Kaufmann)
Subject: Re: What one man means to the mass...
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-15969]: bourbon
Organization: E.E. Dept., Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 07:09:11 GMT

For accurate information about what Judaism believes about Moshiach,
call 1-800-4-MOSHIACH. Or read Maimonides's Laws of Kings, chap 11 &
12. Or write Sichos In English for a couple of their pamphlets.

David Kaufmann
INTERNET:	david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu
From: johnson@itzb.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Messianic Judiasm
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:09:32 GMT
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs


>The idea of MJ sounded quite ridiculous to me
>when I first heard about it.  I thought I was
>hearing a joke.  "Jews for Jesus"... I could
>not even use those two words in the same
>sentance, let alone comprehend the meaning of
>such an odd couple.  But eventually I realized
>that it was a bonefide religious movement, and
>now I am beginning to hear that it is also a
>growing one.


It used to be inconceivable that a Jew would
break Shabbos.  Now 3 movements support it.

It used to be inconceivable that a Jew would
intermary.  Now one movement (or is it two?)
supports it.

It used to be inconceivable that a Jew would
eat food cooked in non-Kosher utensils.  Now
three movements support it.

It used to be inconceivable that a Jew would
daven in a shul without a mehitza.  Now three
movements support it.

It used to be inconceivable that a Jew would
support homosexuality.  Now no movements
support it but theyre on their way.

It is still inconceivable to most that a Jew
would believe in Yeshu ben Dovid HaMelech.  But
youve decided that anything else goes, and so
will this soon.  Give it a few more years and
we'll be Jews just like the rest of you!

A true blue Messianic Jew
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dkhaikin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dmitry Khaikin)
Subject: Re: The Dispersion (Vijay's Mishegoss)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 05:13:29 GMT

In article <RLK.92Dec15175644@underprize.think.com> rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:
>In article <memo.810578@cix.compulink.co.uk> stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk (Stephen Phillips) writes:
>
>   In-Reply-To: <1992Dec14.194805.25403@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk> ucakrvb@ucl.ac.uk (Vijay Bhuchar)
>
>   > A number of you asked me to qualify my remark that the cause 
>   > of the dispersion was the rejection of Jesus.
>   > 
>   > I am sure that you know there were only 40 years between the cross
>   > and the destruction of the temple.
>   > 
>   > Consider these Talmud entries:
>...
>   > I am curious to see what EXCUSES you crazy Orthodox come up with now.
>
>   This is blatant discrimination. What about the crazy Conservative and
>   Reform?  I'm sure they think just the same as the Orthodox about this
>   bullsh*t.
>
>   **** off, will you.
>
>Hey!  Don't leave us crazy secular Jews out of it, either!
>
>At last, something we can all agree on.

I totaly agree. I am Orthodox and I think that we should thank the.....
for his posts. I never felt closer to Reformism and Conservatism in my
life! Yes, at last, something we all should and do agree on!
Now, how do you think we should thank him? Maybe a good shrismas present
would be a 1000 useless messages to his mail box? Yeah, that was a good
idea, let's do it! All of us: crazy Orthodox, crazy Conservative, crazy
Reform, and other Jews!

Thanks,
Dima
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
  dkhaikin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  ( Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio )
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
  dkhaikin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  ( Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel)
Subject: West Coast s.c.j Chanukah Party
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation; El Segundo, CA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:13:55 GMT


It turns out that the 20th was better for a few people.

Given the short notice and the unlikelihood of making my apartment quite
presentable enough for strangers to see by then, as well as general
ease, we decided to do the get-together at a restaurant instead.

So here's the plan:

Date: 20 December 1992

Time: 4 p,m. until about 7 or 8

Place: Kosher Pizza Nosh, Los Angeles
       This is on Pico Blvd., between Robertson and Livonia, on the south
       side of the street.  I think the number is 8844 but I wouldn't swear
       to it.  For those who don't eat pizza, they also have falafel
       and grilled fish and probably several other things that I've never
       had.

If you need more detailed directions or information, send me email or
call me at (310)336-7809 (this is my work number and it switches to voicemail
if I'm out of the office but I will get back to you).

Miriam Nadel

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: st911306@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (Tox)
Subject: re: Disturbing comments
Reply-To: st911306@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 15:51:49 GMT

[stuff deleted, etc.]

In the time I subscribed to Pridigy, I noticed no significant Jewish 
presence whatsoever.  In fact, this summer during the family values stink
I tried to make a comment saying that the "Old Testament clearly shows us.."
and was vilified for draging my Jewish ass on "their" bbs.

Jewish?  not hardly!

r. scott buchanan
st911306@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
my last paper was due friday at 4 pm.  it is now 11:00 am on sunday.  OOOPS!
From: mark@fenris.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger)
Subject: Re: unhappy thoughts
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 00:43:37 GMT

In article <BzILG8.8nn@world.std.com> elevine@world.std.com (Eugene Levine) writes:
>           On October 28 the Gestapo, on orders from 
>        the Foreign Office, began rounding up Polish 
>        Jews to transport them to the Polish border. ...
>                                      The War Against The Jews
>                                      Lucy Dawidowicz
>   I am troubled by two things: how can the Polish-Jewish leadership
>of Israel be unaware of this resonance; ...

Mr. Levine's post is quite disturbing.

The Jews who were transported by the Nazis were totally innocent.

Hamas and the Islamic Jihad, on the other hand are the '90's
equivalent of the Nazi SA: genocidal terrorists who kill Jews as part
of their political program, choosing their victims essentially at
random. 

Anyone who could equate the transport of the German Jews with the
transport of such terrorists has a problem grasping reality.

I'm not certain if the temporary deportation of these people is the
best solution to the terrorism posed by these murderers, but I don't
know a better solution, either.

What I do know is that this deportation hurts these people very
little. At the same time, Hamas and the Jihad have been wantonly
murdering Jews.

The one thing that is clear is that if Israel were at the "mercy" of
Hamas and the Jihad, then Jewish blood would run in the streets.

So do try to keep things in perspective.

--Mark

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: htoyryla@ntc01.tele.nokia.fi
Subject: Re: Dutch - Hebrew Tanach
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:11:24 GMT

In article <9212162224.AA06002@halibut.nosc.mil>, mgross@halibut.nosc.mil (Michelle K. Gross) writes:
> 
> Thanks to Maurice for letting me know that he hasn't been able to find one
> either. As it seems that we can't exchange e-mail, could you please post
> the names of the Chumashim that you've run across? I'm looking for something 
> that has a modern translation (without 2nd person formal) and a lot of
> commentary.
> --Michelle
> mgross@nosc.mil

The introduction to the Dutch translation of Ch.Pearl's book on
Rashi states, that a Dutch translation of Rashi was published in
1975 by Nederlands Israelitisch Kerkgenootschap. The translation
however is an old one from 1895. It is quite likely that this is
what I saw in the Hague something like two years ago.

I found the address of the publisher in Jewish travel guide:

Nederlands Israelitisch Kerkgenootschap
(Fed. of Dutch Jewish Congs.)
van der Boechorststr. 26
Amsterdam
Tel 020-449968

The guide also lists four bookshops in Amsterdam but I think
the above address might be the first one to try.

Hannu


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Hannu Toyryla            htoyryla@ntc01.tele.nokia.fi
Nokia Telecommunications (Nokia Cellular Systems, Private Mobile Radio)
P.O.B  77    SF-02610 ESPOO FINLAND
TEL	+ 358 0 5118366      FAX	+ 358 0 5118400
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: yaffe@icd.teradyne.com (Art Yaffe)
Subject: Re: Gerev
Reply-To: yaffe@icd.teradyne.com
Organization: Teradyne, Boston MA, USA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 13:38:17 GMT

In article 1gff1jINNb9e@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu, jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love) writes:
>As near as I can tell from five minutes of research, gerev
>meaning "sock" is masculine and derives from the Arabic
>jawrab.
>
>Jack F. Love


 . . or is it that "jawrab" derives from "gerev" ?
---
********************************
Arthur G. Yaffe
Internet: yaffe@icd.teradyne.com
********************************

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: mhaitkin@scott.skidmore.edu (meredith haitkin)
Subject: Re: Hanukkah's significance
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:50:07 GMT

solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay) writes:
> In article <92352.084232YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET> Yaakov Kayman <YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
> >I've been hearing a lot, especially lately, from fellow-Jews who describe
> >Hanukkah as a minor holiday. I find this disturbing.
> 
> Okay, Hanukah's a great holiday. Nevertheless, I think we have to
> consider it a minor holiday, as compared to the holidays which
> are instituted in the Torah.
> 
> Many (most?) Americans have heard of Hanukah and have never heard
> of Shavuout or Sukkot. Many Jews celebrate Hanukah and never
> notice Shavuot. I think it's a good idea to remind everyone that
> as Jewish holidays go, Hanukah is not one of the big ones.
> 
> I think it's healthy to keep a sense of perspective.
> -- 
> Andrew Solovay    
> 
> "SILENCE = QUIET"
>                 --Girljock Magazine


I think that you are both right.  Jews need to be reminded that
Hannukah is an important holiday and not just because it's near
Christmas but because of it's significance.  However, Jews should be
reminded of the more significant holidays.. let's all keep things in
perspective... we can like all the holidays... It seems to me the
whole Hannukah thing is a matter of commercialization anyway...
				Love, Shalom, Meri

























Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rmt51@cas.org (Rick Turkel)
Subject: Re: The difference between a chasid and a misnagid
Reply-To: rmt51@cas.org
Organization: S.W.I.G.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:54:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.161016.1251@Princeton.EDU>, jacobw@phoenix.Princeton.EDU
(Jacob Solomon Weinstein) writes:
|> All right... I hate to be the one to ask, but my
|> knowledge of Jewish culture is generally limited to Conservative
|> Judaism, so: what's a misnagid?
|> 
|> I figure if I keep on asking every time I see a word I don't understand
|> on s.c.j, I'll be a bocher by the end of the year.

It's a Yiddish word (from the Hebrew mitnaged) and means one opposed to 
Chassidus.  Many years ago there was a strong dichotomy between chassidim and
misnagdim, but I guess people realized that there's more in common between
us than divides us.
-- 
Rick Turkel           (___  ____ _  _  _  _  _     _  ___   _  _ _  ___
(rmt51@cas.org)           )    |  |  \  )  |/ \     |    |   |  \_)    |
(rmt51@cas.bitnet)       /     | _| __)/   | __)    | ___|_  | _( \    |
      Rich or poor, it's good to have money.        |