From: steel@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Nick Steel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Saddam
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:15:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: life.1k6cfhINN8k2
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.ai.mit.edu



Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Saddamn
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <4998@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:
>In article <1jnv0bINNfgk@life.ai.mit.edu> steel@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Nick Steel) writes:
>>
>>I'd like to address here the term "Islamic unity" and how
>>that is related to Saddam.  Islamically, are you supposed to
>>be on the side of Iraq or USA during that bloody war?
>>The intentions of the West/Israel/USA was known, that's
>>why *ALL* of Jihadic/islamic movements around the world was
>>in support or at least on the side of Iraq.  All of less
>
>that "disputes must be settled within an Arab or Islamic framework",
>but there was still the question of Saddam's vindication of his
>invasion of another Muslim nation [nation comprised of Muslim peoples

Again, destruction of Iraq was on the Agenda prior to
Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.  If you as an arab or muslim don't see
that, ask people around you that are familiar with Israel's ways, 
or do a little more research on how Israel behaves.
Kaddafi invaded Chad, Syria invaded Lebanon, Saudia attacked Qatar, 
...etc, we didn't see USA wipe out any of them.

>verses structure of government].  Furthermore, the legitimacy,
>Islamically of declaring jihad [especially on Israel], as a means of
>fueling support among Muslims.  There was still the uncertainty with
>the concepts of jihad and what it meant and how it was applied in
>"international politics", apart from the fact that Saddam is not a
>Muslim leader. 

When can Jihad be declared?  If a nation being completely
wiped out of the face of the earth cannot provoke Jihad,
then Jihad is just an islamic myth and we should
eliminate the Quranic Chapters that talk about it.


>In Algeria, for example, the Islamic groups merged their ideas on
>the issue, but Dr. Abassi Madani [FIS leader] condemned Saddam
>Hussein/Iraq of its invasion of Kuwait from the beginning, stating
>that the FIS leadership refused "Saddam's pretensions to be leading
>a jihad", and discouraged his supporters from "elevating Saddam into
>a hero". 

I don't see where you get this info from.  Abbas Madani asked
Saddam to declare it as an islamic war so he can get the
Algerian support.  He even asked him to eliminate the Baath
party and declare Iraq as an islamic place, Saddam played with
his tail:  He said, OK I'll call it:  The Islamic Baath Party.
Abbas did not buy that.  Ahmad Nofel (dear friend of Abdullah
Azzam) spoke of that. He met with Saddam at that point, but
noticed that Saddam's nationalism over rode his islamism.


>The Arab states were still in a difficult position between "public opinion
>favorable to Saddam Hussein and their financial dependence on the
>Gulf states", and this separation cause difficulties in "creating consensus

Aha, why were the people in support of Saddam?  Any reasons?
You could get a few stupids here and there, but why the
entire Arabic/islamic people including the Paksitanis and the
Iranians.

The Iranian POW's and the Iranian regular army were interviewed
by 60 minutes: Will you fight your enemy Saddam or the US,
all of them responded: The US.


>on foreign policy and national security issues'.  There was pressure, but
>the deployment of troops produced distress among Arabs and Muslims in view
>of Arab unity.  [All quotes from "Islamic Fundamentalism and the Gulf States"
>by James Piscatori:  pp. 196, 75, 140, 19, 20]


There was never such a thing as arabic Unity.  You mean arabic people
common opinion.

>>As to the islamism of Saddam, I cannot judge his heart really,
>>but his previous deeds prove otherwise.  You can ALWAYS BE 
>>a bad person, but when on the Freeway you see you are about
>>to die from a big truck that's about to hit you, you say:
>>Ya Allah out of fear.  i.e. you *remember* God when you 
>>are under pressure, serious pressure.  I think *WE* ALL 
>>can relate to issues like this in our lives.
>
>>I am not a Saddam supporter, but I cannot say that he's not
>>a true islamic believer at this point.  Under pressure you
>>can turn into a Salah-Adden, Abdullah Azzam, Omar,
>>or Abu Bakr.
>
>
>The criminal Saddam has massacred millions of innocent people,
> 
>>We cannot judge people's heart most of the time except
>>from their behavior.  I saw Saddam pray on TV, can you
>>Anisa say that he's not , at that praying point, bowing
>>to Allah?  Can you say he's not really praying for Him?
>>No you shouldn't.
>
>Can you make the same claim that he is?

Why don't you comment on the story of the Prophet I presented
where the Mujahid killed  the man that was killing muslims
minutes before death, and the prophet got angry. ?
Doesn't this story symbolize here?

>If he had the tiniest ounce of fear of Allah The Almighty, he
>would be repenting instead of defiantly breaking the treaties
>that he made with his ex-collaborators, at the further expense
>of Muslim people.

What treaties?  Why are the Palestinians resisting the occupation,
they should just follow the UN orders of Palestine Division.
I hope you don't wish they do.

>
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jle
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic