HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ferret@irony.engin.umich.edu (kenneth r lipka)
Subject: Re: FULL MOON
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 15:58:39 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: ferret@irony.engin.umich.edu


In article <1992Nov18.034255.14596@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, corleyj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jason D Corley ) writes:
> In article <BxvnEL.205@javelin.sim.es.com> wkirkpat@javelin.sim.es.com writes:
> >Hi, my name is wade and i'm a werewolve.
> 
> Hi, wade.
> 
> (He's really a werewolverINE but he realised he was in the
> wrong newsgroup at the last minute and stopped himself.)
> 
> Jason
> Not a werewolf but an Incredible Simulation!

	Actually, I'm surprised that Wade hasn't stopped by to visit the original home and breeding groud for werewolverines - The University of Michigan.  There's thousand's of us here.

	For those who aren't familiar with the werewolverine, let me acquaint you.  We look like normal people; except maybe for a slightly more liberal attitude/outlook.  But, on certain Saturdays in the afternoon, we gather at the ritual ground and an amazing transformation takes place.  Suddenly, spontaneously, in place of normal students, we have a horde of raving, Blue-and-Gold lunatics franctically snarling and clawing while the strongest of us demonstrate their power on the ritual field by mauling all come


rs!!!  And in about one and half months, we'll hold our ritual in California.

	Watch for us on TV.

	Ken Lipka
	Werewolverine Academian
	ferret@engin.umich.edu
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: werewolf@cwis.unomaha.edu (Eric E. Buckner)
Subject: Re: Good Werewolf/Bad Werewolf ...
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:18:54 GMT

What we envy, we destroy.

Since we envy the gifts of immortality, of shape-shifting, and flight, we 
destroy the groups that have them.  Out of blind fear.  Out of jealosy, we
would gladly kill something which we thought might be different, better off, or
even evil (based on an association of words of what we would destroy).  There 
is no reason why a werewolf would be evil (so long as its persona fit in 
societies standards [no killing of people]) except that humans need to feel 
justified in thier actions of ignorance.

Just some food for thought...
-- 
Never trust the obvious.-- "This," I said pleasantly, "is known as getting it 
on." Charlie Decker, from Stephen King's "Rage"-- "Oh, shit!" anon. wise man--
ALBATROSS!-- It's amazing what you can do, if you don't know you can't do it.
"Denn die Toten reiten schnell." passanger from Bram Stoker's "Dracula"-------
From: tgoodman@phakt.usc.edu (Theodore Goodman)
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
Subject: Werewolf copulation
Date: 16 Nov 1992 23:08:05 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu


  I am working on a werewolf story and a question on werewolves has crossed
my way.  How do werewolves copulate?  Missionary position?  Rear-entry (ie,
doggy-style)?  And how would a werewolf rape a human?  I figured that
individuals who are just beginning to turn werewolf would tend toward human
instincts for such things, while completely-turned werewolves would tend toward
-- 
  Theodore Goodman / tgoodman@usc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: tsullivan@trentu.ca (The OTHER One True God)
Subject: Re: PLEASE?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Trent University Computer Services Department
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 01:44:00 GMT

In article <92325.135359U16244@uicvm.uic.edu>, <U16244@uicvm.uic.edu> writes...
>Terrence Wilcze, Vampire.

  It has been interesting and humourous to follow your rantings on both 
alt.vampyres and here, but I think it's about time for you to cut your 
caffene intake by about 80% or so. Oh, and I think you've read The Vampyre 
Chronicles a few too many times.
  You  state as fact your personal theories (if you can call them that) 
about the Werebeings and the "Kindred"/"Children"/Whatever (names given by 
fiction authors) but it remains that you can spit and shout and type all 
you want, but no one takes you seriously. I'd love to take you seriously, 
drop by for a bite, and then I'll believe you. Til then, perhaps you should 
end this charade and take up writing (you're quite eloquent, in a 
stereotypical, fictionous, Lestat sort of way)...

   Tim Sullivan
   tsullivan@trentu.ca
   cstes@blaze.trentu.ca

A Disclaimer? Yeah, and people BELIEVE what I write, too...
---
 "Virtual Reality has NOTHING on Calvin."
       - Suzy, from Calvin and Hobbes
From: ean@gvls2.gvl.unisys.com (Ed Naratil)
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
Subject: Information I
Date: 20 Nov 92 11:16:55 GMT
Organization: Paramax Systems Corp., Valley Forge Labs, Paoli, PA


Many books have been published regarding werewolves.  Among them is
"The Werewolf" by Montague Summers, "Werwolves" by Elliot O'Donell,
"Vampires, Zombies, and Monster Men" by Daniel Farson, and if you're
into fiction you might try "Wolfen" by Whitley Strieber.  These books 
should be available at your local library.

Of the above mentioned books, I think you will find the book by Daniel
Farson the best and the one by Elliot O'Donell the worst. (Personal
opinion, of course).

A quote from "The Werewolf"  -  "In Normany, tradition tells of certain
fantastic beings know as lupins or lubins.  They pass the night 
chattering together and twattling in an unknown tongue. They take their
stand by the walls of country cemeteries and howl dismally at the moon.
Timorous and fearful of man they will flee away scared at a footstep
or distant voice.  In some districts, however, they are fierce and of
the werewolf race, since they are said to scratch up graves with their
hands and gnaw poor dead bones."

In "Werwolves" Mr. O"Donell says: "My own theory, or rather one of my
own theories, is that the property of transmutation, i.e., the power
of assuming any animal guise, was one of the many properties -- including
second sight, the property of becoming invisible at will, of divining
the presence of water, metals, the advent of death, and of projecting
the etherical body -- which were bestowed on man at the time of his
creation; and no longer possessed of them, a few of these properties
are still, in a lesser degree, to be found among those of us who are
termed psychic."

Someone in a previous message mentioned 'the berserkers'.  You will
find mention of them in the book by Daniel Farson.  They were ancient
Norse warriors who fought with frenzy and exploited the fearsome 
reputation of wild animals by wearing bearskins in battle.  This is
where our word 'beserk' comes from, and these warriors may indeed have
been imitating werewolves.

Another book to look for is "The Book of Werewolves" by Sabine
Baring-Gould.  This was the first serious study of Werewolves in the
English language, and was first published in 1865.  But beware - it
helps if you are versed in Latin, Greek, French, Norweigan, and other
non-descript languages that he keeps referring to; in many cases not
even translating to English.

(Still more to come? - Possibly)

+------------------------+---------------------------------------------------+
!   ean@gvl.Unisys.COM   !      "Since all is well, keep it so:              !
! W3BNR @ N3LA.PA.USA.NA !       wake not the sleeping wolf."                !
!     Amateur Radio      !             William Shakespeare, 'Henry IV'       !
+------------------------+---------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: pw15@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Philip  Wang)
Subject: question about lycanthropes
Reply-To: pw15@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Philip  Wang)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 06:27:46 GMT

Are lycanthropes people who turn into animals or is the term restricted to
those who turn into wolves?

Also it seems to me werewolves doesn't necessarily mean wolf-man (ie a wolf
man being a biped with wolf like features and werewolf being indistinguishable
from your average ordinary really huge wolf except that it turns into a human).
Could someone explain this? It's been a while since I read anything on occult?
(well, some werewolves are created through devil worship - that much I 
remember - I think by wearing a wolfskin and dancing around some Satanic icon
and doing some other stuff) or otherwise night creatures.

Sorry if I sound like I'm totally out of it, but as I haven't read about this
stuff since grammar school, you could say I am.

philip



Philip Wang
E-mail at pw15@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
"Though many a tortured night prevails thy Exorcisms shall but fail
While Crucifix doth burn my flesh I shall not yield to you unless I Die."
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: ferret@irony.engin.umich.edu (kenneth r lipka)
Subject: Re: Ways of becoming a werewolf
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 15:47:26 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: ferret@irony.engin.umich.edu


In article <1992Nov17.161844.28488@news.columbia.edu>, pw15@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Philip  Wang) writes:
>> 
> While we're on that, is the silver bullet remedy actually useful against
> werebeasts? I thought they only affected undead.
> 
> philip
> Philip Wang

	In most of the legends I remember, silver is a major weapon against almost _any_ of the physical supernatural creatures (undead and lycanthropes).  However, as to the specific instance of a silver bullet, that depends on the species.  The "standard" werewolf does die from a silver bullet.  But, there is a french variant (the Loup-Garou) which does not die from a silver bullet.  This one is a man who puts on a wolfskin which merges allowing the wolf form to be achieved.  To kill this variety, one must find


 the skin and salt it; then when the Loup-Garou puts on the skin, he will be killed.

	Anyone know any other variations on the "standard" werewolf?

	With the facts as I know them to be,
	Ken Lipka
	ferret@engin.umich.edu
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: chak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Buckshot Willie)
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
Subject: Books, etc....
Date: 17 Nov 92 23:29:32 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center


  A good book which describes a werewolf-type being is Stephen King/Peter
Straub's _Talisman_.

  I also like the classic movies Teen Wolf and Teen Wolf 2.  I liked the
Saturday morning cartoon even better. {Sarcasm}

Buckshot Willie
chak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu

P.S.: Didn't the old cartoon The Groovy Ghoulies have a werewolf?
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: etxsahm@eua.ericsson.se (Marten Sahlen)
Subject: Re: more questions
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 08:35:59 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.191831.1@hamp.hampshire.edu> jyaruss@hamp.hampshire.edu writes:
>Oh yeah...
>one more question:
>Does anybody have some *really* good werewolf movies to recommend?
>-either high quality w/ good effects and story
>-or just classics I should see
>-or anything else interesting.

Here are a few classics, that probably go under the 'good effect' category rather
than 'high quality'.

'An American Werewolf In London', obviously a must see.
'Company Of Wolves', a surreal adventure were dreams and reality are intertwined. 
                     British pop star Danielle Dax plays a minor role.
'Fright Night', after seeing this one, you'll never peek at your neighbours house again.




-- 
>>>>-----------------Marten Sahlen  etxsahm@eua.ericsson.se-----------------<<<<
>>>-----Ellemtel Telecom Systems Lab, Box 1505, S-125 25 Alvsjo, Sweden------<<<
>>--------------------"An apple a day keeps the doctor away-------------------<<
>--------an orgasm a day keeps the psychiatrist away" - Dusan Makavejev--------<
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: mcr0193@rigel.tamu.edu (ROBERTSON, MATTHEW C)
Subject: Re: more questions
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 05:51:00 GMT

In article <psmith.722015637@cunews>, psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith) writes...
>In <1992Nov16.191831.1@hamp.hampshire.edu> jyaruss@hamp.hampshire.edu writes:
> 
>>Oh yeah...
>>one more question:
>>Does anybody have some *really* good werewolf movies to recommend?
>>-either high quality w/ good effects and story
>>-or just classics I should see
>>-or anything else interesting.
> 
>Obviously the original with Lon Chaney Jr. (I think) is a must see:
>"The Wolfman".  Another of my favourites is "The Howling".
> 
>bye

One of my favorites is "Silver Bullet".
The screenplay is based on _Cycle of the Werewolf_ By Stephen King,
which someone mentioned as good werewolf literature.

On the question of a werewolf raping a human while in wolf form, this 
seems to me kind of like raping a cow before you slaughter it for beef!
Why rape the food, just eat it. ;-)

Matt


Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: mlharley@unix1.tcd.ie (Kubik)
Subject: Re: 2 questions
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 11:35:39 GMT

In <1992Nov16.190225.1@hamp.hampshire.edu> jyaruss@hamp.hampshire.edu writes:

>Okay -- two things:

>1. Does anybody know of any good werewolf novels/short stories/magazines etc.?
>(I guess it would have been easier to just say literature but oh well.)

Check out _Moon Dance_ articles on this group...

>2. Does anyone have any solid reason to beleive that werewolves exist?

Yes. :)

>-Jordan

Mark.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Harley...	         |  "Truth is, Belief is not required",  Gerry Roston.
mlharley@unix1.tcd.ie    |
(Kubik)		         |  "I am, Belief is not required",                Me.
From: REA105@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
Subject: why?
Date: 19 Nov 92 05:20:47 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

Why do you people waste your time on writing about these fictious creatures.  T
hey only exist in one's dreams.  Until the night of one's first transformation
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 20 Nov 1992 13:53:59 CST
From: <U16244@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
Subject: Re: PLEASE?

In article <92325.064523IO20557@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, We all earn our time in Hell
<IO20557@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> says:
>
>Hey..if any of you guys or gals get to Bangor Maine or Boston Mass and
>feel like passing on the gift, let me know.
>Thanx    -TC

Fools!  The Gift, if it can be called that, can only be passed on safely
through heredity.  The Cursed can transmit their gift, but the beings
themselves become uncontrollable monsters, rending people to pieces whenever
the moon is full, until they are destroyed once and forever.  Either be born
with it (too late for you) or find someone who can pass on shammanistic
secrets to you.  Do not use the secrets of cults which call themselves
Satanists, for while they may not deal with him, they are fooling around
with things that cannot be trusted.  Rather, use the secrets of Druidic
science, or Native American magicks whose purpose is not malice, but
unity with nature (even though some of those people do tend to be warped,
they are a minority among the "species.")

Terrence Wilcze, Vampire.
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith)
Subject: Re: Fright Night about Werewolves?
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 15:56:31 GMT

In <1992Nov17.083559.8202@eua.ericsson.se> etxsahm@eua.ericsson.se (Marten Sahlen) writes:

>In article <1992Nov16.191831.1@hamp.hampshire.edu> jyaruss@hamp.hampshire.edu writes:
>>Oh yeah...
>>one more question:
>>Does anybody have some *really* good werewolf movies to recommend?
>>-either high quality w/ good effects and story
>>-or just classics I should see
>>-or anything else interesting.

>Here are a few classics, that probably go under the 'good effect' category rather
>than 'high quality'.

>'An American Werewolf In London', obviously a must see.
>'Company Of Wolves', a surreal adventure were dreams and reality are intertwined. 
>                     British pop star Danielle Dax plays a minor role.
>'Fright Night', after seeing this one, you'll never peek at your neighbours house again.
 I thought this one was about Vampires with an occasional Zombie
thrown in.  Didn't it star Roddy McDowell?



>-- 
>>>>>-----------------Marten Sahlen  etxsahm@eua.ericsson.se-----------------<<<<
>>>>-----Ellemtel Telecom Systems Lab, Box 1505, S-125 25 Alvsjo, Sweden------<<<
>>>--------------------"An apple a day keeps the doctor away-------------------<<
>>--------an orgasm a day keeps the psychiatrist away" - Dusan Makavejev--------<
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: apm4366@cc.utah.edu (Miaullis, Aaron Paul)
Subject: Becoming a werewolf
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: University of Utah Computer Center
Distribution: usa
Date: 20 Nov 1992 12:48 MST  


I've heard that you can be BORN a werewolf.

This may tie in with insantiy in royal houses due to inbreeding.

comments (please, no flames - I don't tan well).


Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith)
Subject: Re: more questions
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 15:53:57 GMT

In <1992Nov16.191831.1@hamp.hampshire.edu> jyaruss@hamp.hampshire.edu writes:

>Oh yeah...
>one more question:
>Does anybody have some *really* good werewolf movies to recommend?
>-either high quality w/ good effects and story
>-or just classics I should see
>-or anything else interesting.

Obviously the original with Lon Chaney Jr. (I think) is a must see:
"The Wolfman".  Another of my favourites is "The Howling".

bye
From: joan@koala.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
Subject: Re: Ways of becoming a werewolf
Date: 17 Nov 1992 19:46:56 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: koala.berkeley.edu


Another way is to have been born on Dec. 25.

Joan V
From: seto@ll.mit.edu (Seton Seto)
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
Subject: Re: dos preguntas
Date: 17 Nov 92 15:14:14 GMT
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory

In article <#6jq7y+@lynx.unm.edu>, rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires) writes:
|> Firstly, anyone have a list of classic Werewolf stories/books
|> (even really good _Wolverine_ issues would do :) )?
|> 
|> Segundo, does there exist a dracula/vampire newsgroup???
|> 
|> Roger Squires
|> rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu

alt.vampyre
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: jyaruss@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: 2 questions
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:02:25 GMT

Okay -- two things:

1. Does anybody know of any good werewolf novels/short stories/magazines etc.?
(I guess it would have been easier to just say literature but oh well.)

2. Does anyone have any solid reason to beleive that werewolves exist?

-Jordan
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: cbnorman@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Bruce Norman)
Subject: Werewolf fiction
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 17:02:52 GMT

I once tried to write a modern psedo-scientific Werewolf novel, entitled
"Werecycle" and then renamed simply "Wolf".  I got about 156k done.  Anyway,
if anyone is interested, I could post it here (in installments).

Reply in E-mail please.
From: rmr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Richard M. Romanowski)
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
Subject: Re: Becoming a werewolf
Date: 23 Nov 92 19:18:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UB

apm4366@cc.utah.edu (Miaullis, Aaron Paul) writes:


>I've heard that you can be BORN a werewolf.

>This may tie in with insantiy in royal houses due to inbreeding.

>comments (please, no flames - I don't tan well).

	Naturally, heredity is a very good indicator of inclination toward
occult studies.  Was it Paracelsus who said that the only true way to be
a magician is to be a magician born?  If you want wer-wolves, or for that
matter vampires, I'd start looking with the nobility of Eastern Europe ...
what little remains.

	As to insanity ... reality is a symbol.  Go with what works.
Luck
(and the snuggly attentions of frothing elder gods)
Rick
(who is ver VERY sane.  All the cabin boys were disloyal.  I proved...
with geometric logic .... that the strawberries were stolen ...:)
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: jcsoepen@cs.ruu.nl (Harold Soepenberg)
Subject: Re: Songs about werewolves
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 11:51:38 GMT
Organization: Utrecht University, Dept. of Computer Science

  What about an oldie: 'Bark at the Moon' by Ozzy 


  Harold.

  -------------------------------------------------------------------
		       C No More
		       ---------  



Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
From: mrjones@eos.ncsu.edu (CARNIFEX)
Subject: Re: newgroup alt.horror.werewolves
Originator: mrjones@c00564-1403br.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: mrjones@eos.ncsu.edu (CARNIFEX)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:46:03 GMT



FINALLY!  I've been waiting for a newsgroup like this since the dawn of time
itself!  Hopefully, this newsgroup will be as popular (and busy post-wise) as
the alt.vampyres newsgroup.

So, fellow wolven, what shall be the first topic o' discussion?

					
						Carnifex
Organization: Sophomore, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:00:53 -0500 
From: Larry Lyle <ll24+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: question about lycanthropes

	Hmmmm, Good question.  I think considering the myth behind the word and
the fact that I have never heard it applied to other werebeasts.. that
'lycantyhrope' refers exclusively to werewolves.

De
The Lupophile


The werewolf at CMU  ...   Lycanthrope@cmu.edu
From: troll@sug.org (A. Newman)
Newsgroups: alt.horror.werewolves
Subject: Re: question about lycanthropes
Date: 17 Nov 92 15:39:31 GMT
Organization: Sun User Group


In article <1992Nov17.062746.17619@news.columbia.edu> pw15@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Philip  Wang) writes:
>Are lycanthropes people who turn into animals or is the term restricted to
>those who turn into wolves?

'Lycanthrope' is restricted to wolves; the word comes from the Greek
words 'lykos' (wolf) and 'anthropos' (man).  Our word 'werewolf', on
the other hand, comes from the Old English word 'wer', which meant
'man', and the Old English 'wulf', which, unsurprisingly, meant
'wolf'.

>Also it seems to me werewolves doesn't necessarily mean wolf-man (ie a wolf
>man being a biped with wolf like features and werewolf being indistinguishable
>from your average ordinary really huge wolf except that it turns into
>a human).

Well, legends have two types of 'werewolves' drawn from differing
cultures.  The original werewolves were shapeshifters; that is, they
were humans, who, under a proscribed set of circumstances (spells,
full moon, etc) turned completely into an animal.  Typically, a large
animal, because humans mass so much more than most animals, and
sometimes a more cunning animal, but not a wolf with human
intelligence.

The other kind, created much later, and not really based on anything,
is the 'wolfman'.  A biped, with lupine features, covered with hair,
with some vestigal human intelligence.  This is the typical Hollywood
werewolf.

>Could someone explain this? It's been a while since I read anything on occult
>(well, some werewolves are created through devil worship - that much I 
>remember - I think by wearing a wolfskin and dancing around some Satanic icon
>and doing some other stuff) or otherwise night creatures.

The methods for becoming a werewolf are too many to go into detail
here, but some of the common ones include:

Being attacked by a werewolf and infected (this is the 'lycanthropy as
a transmitable disease' premise)

Being scratched with wolvesbane - or some similar plant (this is also
scientific lycanthropy, like the one above)

Being born under a specific set of circumstances.  In the Greek
orthodox church, superstition has it that any child born on Christmas
Day will become a werewolf.  In some cultures being the seventh son of
a seventh son will grant you powers - or curse you.  Likewise, you can
inherit a family tendency towards 'werewolfism'.

Being cursed by a witch or warlock. (magical lycanthropy)

Deliberately transforming yourself through ritual (much like you
describe, also magical lycanthropy).

>
>philip
>

Hope this answers some of your questions,

Alex Newman
troll@sug.org