HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wayne@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Wayne Fuller)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Scouts Final Chapter!
Date: 12 Oct 92 04:41:39 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

stevenst@iaserv.b1.ingr.com (Todd Stevens) writes:

> I have appreciated all comments in this thread and feel that I can now
> reconcile with my Lord on this one.  I feel since Scouting has so much to
> offer my son and his fellow cub scouts in every other aspect that I must 
> maintain a tolerance in the area of religious awards.  I can see that the 
> BSA in a very real sense does not promote any particular faith in any of its
> activities.  I appreciate its emphasis on spiritual growth and to really
> study and learn about one's religion.  I must allow my Lord to work
> through this effort and trust that all such religious undertakings will 
> eventually lead to a better understanding of Lord Jesus.  As a Christian, I
> must actively defend my Lord against any and all attacks upon his 
> sovereignty, and to teach those who are ready to hear his message.  But 
> these activities must be conducted entirely outside of any "scout" setting
> so as not to be construed as any teaching or indoctrination of the BSA.
> 
> How does that sound, guys?
> 
> BTW, I have now been "promoted" to den leader as everyone else has backed
> out!  HELP!!!  We haven't had one den meeting yet.  I am going to Basic
> Leader Training this weekend but will probably want to have at least an
> hour and a half long den meeting before then.  I don't have any activities 
> information yet and would appreciate any ideas for a first bear den meeting 
> activity.  I know some of the boys need to work on their bobcat badge and 
> our den has been selected to perform a song at the next pack meeting.  I am 
> supposed to get the list of boys in my den very soon (I think there are 7 or
> 8 boys) and I plan to ask that person a lot of these questions then.  But 
> again, HHEELLPP!!!
> 
> Yours in Scouting,
> 
> Todd Stevens
> stevenst@iaserv.b1.ingr.com
  I would sugest getting in touch with your council office and getting
  the two page flyer that has suggestions for your firat months den
  meetings.
  They have lots of good , free, material just to help new leaders get
  started.
  

please pardon any spelling errors as I just got back from a 3 day, below
freezing, campout with the boys from my troop. (and yes it was great to be
out there)
From: robertw@informix.com (Robert Weinberg)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?
Date: 9 Oct 92 22:47:05 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1992Oct8.185406.1020@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan  
Krieger) writes:
> Religion/atheism is a TOTALLY separate issue from
> respecting others RELIGIONS.

Not really. Some religions do not posit a god at all. Such religions could well be  
called atheistic, so tolerance of religion really does require tolerance of  
atheism.

Care to name the god of Buddhism, for example?

--
+================================+================================+
|         Rob Weinberg           |  Workstation publications tech |
|   Email : robertw@informix.com |        Graphic designer        |
|   Voice : 415-926-6754         |     <imagine your ad here>     |
+================================+================================+
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: sav@kepler.unh.edu (Scott A Valcourt)
Subject: Re: Knots: too much bother
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 00:23:55 GMT

I once posed the same question to a distinguished Scouter in my council
and his reply was that he too would just assume leave them all off, but
every knot that he wears, including his Eagle, is not his own.  There 
were lots of people who gave each and every knot to him in some sort of
fashion, be it the Eagle, Scouters' Key, or the Silver Beaver.  I agree,
and when I recieve one knot for only my effortsand mine alone, then I'll
leave that one off of my uniform at my will, but the others stay because
they're not completely mine.



-Scott Valcourt			INTERNET: sav@kepler.cs.unh.edu
 Computer Science Department -- Graduate School
 University of New Hampshire
 Durham, NH 03824

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: jvigneau@cs.ulowell.edu (Joe Vigneau)
Subject: Re: I NEED HELP PLEASE!!
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 00:45:26 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.153832.12125@usl.edu> mxc1059@usl.edu (Carroll Matthew) writes:
>
>I have a problem that someone may be able to help with.
>
>I am an assistant scoutmaster for a small boyscout troup.
>The boys range from age 12 to 17, with most of them 13 and 14.  The problem is that the scoutmaster is an excellent leader who is hardworking and VERY devoted to scouting.  His problem is that he doesn't provide enough enjoyment to the
>scouts.  We seldom go camping and when we do, they have to stay together and not go far.  I guess he's overprotective.  I'm 22 so I have no problems interacting with the boys.  From what they tell me, they are not enjoying scouting very 
>much.  The older boys, who are all close to eagle, have more than once asked me to start a seperate troop of scouts.  I respect the scoutmaster and know that
>he is doing a good job, but how do I tell him that his program needs work?
>What should I do and how should I handle it?
>
> Matthew Carroll
>Troop 459
>Church Point, La.

Go on more campouts. Youv'e heared that most of "Scouting" is "outing".  Do 
different things when you go camping (eg. don't go to the same place all
the time).  Go on a canoe trip, hike through the mountains. Or do other stuff
like go to a ball game or something...  Set up a venture crew for older
Scouts... Get parents involved...

-- 
PaperNet: Joseph W. Vigneau         | InterNet: jvigneau@cs.ulowell.edu
          71 Lilley Ave.            | 
          Lowell, MA 01850-1505     | "Don't blame me, I'm not old
VoiceNet: (508) 452-9466            |              enough to vote!"
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: edelheit@smiley.mitre.org (Jeff Edelheit)
Subject: Re: Cub Scout Leaders
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 15:51:04 GMT

In article <1ass5iINNqvd@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> be829@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jon Lyksett) writes:
>
>"If you don't volunteer, there's no room for your kid"??!!??
>Most parents are willing to help when needed, though not *every*
>parent needs to be registered.  If you refuse the program to the
>boy because the parent doesn't (read can't) volunteer, you lack
>the very stuff that we try to teach: CHARACTER!!!

Something which I didn't say is that this statement is made at the
very begining of the discussion that is held around the table.  It is
used to motivate the parents to select leaders.  I also suggest that a
parent who can't be a leader can take responsibility for only one
activity (lead a hike, scouting for food, Blue/Gold Banquet
coordinator.)  We've not lost a boy yet because of a parent's
UNWILLINGNESS to participate.  If a parent can't help because of real
personal issues (single parent with younger kids at home, parent holds
2 or more jobs), then the other den leaders are willing to take on the
load.

Look at it as something of an empty threat.

Jeff Edelheit		email:  edelheit@mitre.org
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: alan@rsvl.unisys.com (Al Kiecker )
Subject: patch collectors
Organization: rsvl.unisys
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 14:54:17 GMT

I am interested in collecting OA Lodge pocket flap patches. If you would like
trade your lodge's pocket flap patch for mine (Agaming Lodge #257), please
drop me a line. WWW

						-- al

UUCP:	alan@unirsvl.unisys.com
PHONE:	(612)432-8139(H)	(612)635-7240(W)
ADR:	14333 Gladiola Ct., Apple Valley, MN 55124
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|    Al Kiecker				UUCP: 	alan@rsvl.unisys.com    |
|    UNISYS - Open System Products	Phone: 	612-635-7240	        |
|    Roseville,MN 			FAX: 	612-635-3899            |
From: tuned@cheops.qld.tne.oz.au (David_Tune)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Venture Computer System
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:17:52 GMT
Organization: Telecom Australia, TNE Computer Support Services



	I am currently involved in planning for the 9th Australian/ 
	1st Asia-Pacific Venture to be held in Brisbane (Queensland, Australia),	in January 1994.
		
	My area of responsibility is Off-site Activities, and I have been asked
	to help in planning/creating a database system to cope with activity
	bookings and transport scheduling.

	The system needs to cope with both pre-booked activities and those that
	will be booked daily at the Venture. It will need to track individuals
	and buses, give information on such things as diet and medical details
	for individuals, provide reports for catering, admin and the activities
	divisions and control bus boarding.  We have discussed including admin
	functions such as payment details etc, but it has been decided to leave
	this area out of the system for now. Above all, it needs to be 
	inexpensive (we hope that we can cut costs through having hardware and
	software donated or sponsored).

	I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has any experience with 
	any similar systems, and particularly in any specifications or 
	software that may exist for something of this sort.

	I hope that we can avoid re-inventing the wheel on this project,
	and possibly come up with a system that can be used for future events
	such as Jamborees, Moots etc.

	Any input would be appreciated,

	David Tune,
	Off-site Activities Co-ordinator,
	9th. Australian/ 1st. Asia-Pacific Venture.
	(also Rover Advisor, Aspley Rover Crew, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia)
From: pal@moscom.com (Paul A LaChapelle)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: COR registered positions
Date: 12 Oct 92 18:28:45 GMT
Organization: Moscom Corp., Pittsford NY



	Can anyone give me the definitive BSA Publication Number where I can
	find the allowed registration positions that a Chartered Organization
	Representative can hold in a Pack and Troop.

	It is my understanding that they can be registered as members of the
	committee as well as being CR. I have seen Troops where they are also
	the Scoutmaster or Cubmaster. I would like to know what the official
	policy is and where it is written.

	Yours in Scouting,


                                                                      /
                                                       \             / / 
______________________________________________________  \\\' ,      / //
            Paul A. LaChapelle                           \\\//,   _/ //,
            Eagle Class '62                               \_-//' /  //<,
            NE-II-32                                        \ ///  <//`
            NE-CS-29,33,41                                   /  >>  \\\`__/_
            Otetiana Council, Rochester NY                  /,)-^>> _\` \\\
                                                            (/   \\ //\\
               Who hath smelt wood_smoke at twilight?         //  _//\\\\
               Who hath heard the birch log burning?          ((` ((
-------------------------------------------------------- 
********************************************************
*	pal@moscom.com                                 *
*	{rit,tropix,ur-valhalla}!moscom!pal            *
********************************************************
-- 
	Paul A. LaChapelle	pal@moscom.com
	MOSCOM Corporation	{rit,tropix,ur-valhalla}!moscom!pal
	3750 Monroe Avenue	(716) 381-6000 ex 6528
	Pittsford, NY 14534
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.atheism
From: merlyn@digibd.com (Merlyn LeRoy)
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?
Organization: DigiBoard Incorporated, Eden Prairie, MN
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1992 13:40:57 GMT

stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
 >Todd Stevens writes:
...
 >>...  I was greatly disturbed to read about the Buddhist,
 >>Hindu, Islamic and Jewish emblems that I, serving in a leadership
 >>position, might have to award as an achievement someday.  As a Christian,
 >>I would find it extremely difficult to award someone for any work done to 
 >>further beliefs that discredit Jesus as Lord and Savior.  I was wondering
 >>how other Christian scout leaders have handled this moral dilemma.
...
 >Before I answer the question itself, I feel I need to address the tone of
 >Mr. Stevens' posting.  I consider it blatantly anti-Semitic, anti-Islam,
 >anti-Buddhist, anti-Hindu, and anti-any and every other religion that
 >Scouts worldwide observe and are encouraged to observe.   If Mr. Stevens
 >cannot accept the reality that Christianity is but one OPINION of
 >God's relationship with mankind, and not THE opinion or THE Word,
 >it can seriously affect his ability to work with boys who do not
 >share his religious beliefs, and thus his ability to serve as a
 >Cub Scout leader.
...
 >In closing: Mr. Stevens, now that you are a youth group leader,
 >I strongly suggest you learn to show a little tolerance toward
 >those who do not share your religious beliefs.  If you want to
 >believe that the freelance preacher Joshua (commonly known
 >by the Greek translation "Jesus") is the Messiah, that is your
 >right and privilege, but it does NOT give you the right to
 >downgrade or treat with contempt other religious beliefs that
 >boys in your Den or Pack might have.  The religious beliefs
 >of those boys are just as legitimate, and just as real, as
 >yours, and as a Scout leader, you have the OBLIGATION to
 >respect their beliefs and to encourage them, as circumstances
 >arise, to continue their religious and spiritual growth.
 >I also hope that you never, at Scout camp, encourage or force
 >a Jewish boy to attend a Christian service.  Besides the
 >emotional harm it could do to the boy, it could also open
 >you, your unit, your council, and BSA to legal action for
 >mental child abuse.

Stan, you are the most blatant hypocrite I have even seen, and I've
seen Ted Kaldis.  Every single point you've raised applies to atheist
scouts, yet you display EXACTLY the same disgust towards atheist scouts
that this yoyo displays towards non-christian scouts.  Don't like your
own poisonous medicine, eh?

Maybe, just maybe, you might understand why it's not a good idea to
impose your religious orthodoxy on other people.  But I doubt it.

---
Merlyn LeRoy
From: csquared@coos.dartmouth.edu (C Squared)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Centrifuge
Date: 12 Oct 92 02:09:15 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Originator: csquared@coos.dartmouth.edu

I wrote this a couple of years ago, and I though maybe some of you would enjoy
it.

C Squared



Take a deep breath.  Close your eyes.
You are under a tree in the forest.



	CENTRIFUGE


Five years of active service.  Every
Monday night, meetings at the Kennedy
School, Billerica, Mass.  The leaders query,
"What do you want to do with your life?"
The question seems so distant to an
Eleven year old boy.  Yet the competition--
Tenderfoot, Second, First Class, Star, Life--
Is flamed, kindled for survival.
Camping trips in the snow, rain, sleet.
A Klondike derby, a jamboree, a hike
To clean the canal.  The ultimate goal,
The Patrick Doyle Award.  Named for
A boy who died just before reaching
The pinnacle, it breeds the sense of
Egocentricity.  Success is the reward,
Effort is the foreknown price.

And all this strife for what?
The pursuit of the king of birds,
And the good of the value of truth.

--
*             *  *	 ******    *	    *****   ******   *****
 *           *  * *	 *     *   *	   *	 *  *	  *  *	  *
  *         *  *   *	 ******    *	   *	 *  ******   *	   *
   *   *   *  *******    * *	   *	   *	 *  * *	     *	   *
    * * * *  *       *   *  *	   *	   *	 *  *  *     *	  *
     *   *  *         *  *   *	   ******   *****   *	*    *****

***********   *	    *	***********	*********
     *	      *	    *	     *		*		Is
     *	      *	    *	     *		*		This
     *	      *******	     *		*********	Too
     *	      *	    *	     *			*	Subtle
     *	      *	    *	     *			*	?
     *	      *	    *	***********	*********

*******	  *	     *********		*	  *********	*********
*      *  *	     *		       * *	  *		*
*      *  *	     *		      *   *	  *		*
*******	  *	     ********	     *******	  *********	********
*	  *	     *		    *       *		  *	*
*	  *	     *		   *	     *		  *	*
*	  ********   *********	  *	      *	  *********	*********
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: mpb@troy.uucp (22161-bunz)
Subject: Re: Does his leadership still count?
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 17:48:57 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.170918.17512@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
> Here's a BSA advancement question.  There has been a difference of
> opinion over it among typical members of Boards of Review-
> 
>   A boy who advanced to First Class while in the 6th grade served as
>   a Den Chief while in the 7th grade.  At the time, the Scoutmaster
>   determined that his work was satisfactory and that he did meet
>   the leadership requirement for Star;  the Advancement Chairman
>   at the time (me) was also satisfied that he met the requirement,
>   so it was recorded on his advancement record.
> 
>   He never completed the other requirements for Star (primarily
>   merit bades and service project) and dropped out of the Troop
>   after the 7th grade.  He has just rejoined (10th grade) and
>   because we have "High Adventure" activities for Star and above,
>   he wanted to know what it would take for him to advance (and he
>   specifically mentioned that he thought the leadership requirement
>   was already met).
> 
> Would you count the leadership, or would you make him hold another
> job for 4 months?  I'm prepared to accept it, but there have been some
> questions being raised; the issues are-
> 
>      1.	He was not registered as a Scout for 2 years, so what does
> 	carry forward over non-continuous membership.  Clearly,
> 	things that are awarded, like merit badges and rank, are
> 	his, but what about things that are subjective judgments?
> 
>      2.	In case any members of the BofR feel that they need to verify
> 	what the boy has done, there is no longer any record, except
> 	that 2.5 years ago, the Scoutmaster at the time said he
> 	did, and there were no objections at the time.  (Also, the
> 	rule under which our BofR operates is that the boy is
> 	presumed to have met the requirements unless the BofR can
> 	prove differently; a maybe/maybe-not or a "We don't know"
> 	conclusion means the boy passes, which in this case means
> 	that unless anybody knows explicitely why his work as a
> 	Den Chief wasn't up to our standards, we have to accept
> 	it.)
> -- 
> Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
> UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
> Summit, NJ
> smk@usl.com


If the SM signed off two years ago, then you have to assume that
it was acceptable at the time, and that is all that counts.  We've
had 17 1/2 year olds show up wanting to finish their Eagle who we
never/rarely saw, and we had to accept everything that has been previously
approved - even Scout Spirit, though we hadn't seen much lately!

Marc

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: hunter@master.lds-az.loral.com (Bill Hunter)
Subject: Campfire Stories
Followup-To: rec.scouting
Organization: Loral Defense Systems - Arizona
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:40:15 GMT

I also have a vague recollection of those stories, one in particular was
about the New Jersey Devil.  Though I now live in Phoenix, I'd like the
details if anyone remembers that story.

Bill Hunter
Scoutmaster, The Vertical Edge
Loral Defense Systems - Arizona
1300 S. Litchfield Rd.
Goodyear, AZ  85338
PH 602 925 7929  Fax 602 925 6988
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: bkgray@Chaos.mcs.kent.edu (Brian Gray)
Subject: Re: Cub Scout Leaders
Organization: Kent State University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 22:12:56 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.155104.3064@linus.mitre.org>
			edelheit@smiley.mitre.org (Jeff Edelheit) writes:
>In article <1ass5iINNqvd@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
>			be829@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jon Lyksett) writes:
>>
>>"If you don't volunteer, there's no room for your kid"??!!??
>
>Something which I didn't say is that this statement is made at the
>very begining of the discussion that is held around the table.
 [...]
>			We've not lost a boy yet because of a parent's
>UNWILLINGNESS to participate.  

More correctly, you aren't *aware* of any boys you've lost because of
this approach to recruiting adult leaders.  This seems like a
heavy-handed approach to me, with a fairly high chance of really making
a parent or two mad enough to walk away - with their sons.  Is this
approach worth the risk of losing a Scout?

 [...]
 
>Look at it as something of an empty threat.

Empty threats usually don't work for very long - with children or
adults.  I hope you can find a better way to encourage adults to
volunteer. 


brian


-- 
*************************************************************************
* 				Brian Gray				*
* 			924 Allen Drive, Kent, Ohio 44240		*
*	Seneca District, Great Trail Council BSA, Marnoc Lodge #151	*
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: hathaway@stsci.edu
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 04:59:49 GMT

In article <spgpy5a@lynx.unm.edu>, anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo) writes:
   ... [stuff deleted for brevity] ... 
>                                 What about religions or beliefs with more 
> than one deity?  Does the Scouting movement prohibit that?  I was thinking
> about this because of the phrase in the BSA Oath "To do my duty to God..."
> does this mean that polytheistic religions are not acceptable?  I don't
> think I've ever seen anything regarding this before, just the all-inclusive
> yes, any faith is acceptable, but are multi-deity faiths acceptable??
>>
> WWW
> Dominick V. Zurlo
> Eagle Scout '87
> blacklisted '88
> 

   And what about female deities?  Is Goddess Worship considered even worse 
than the "less than one" deity variation of devotion???  If it hasn't come 
up yet in real troops, look out, it may soon appear....  We all can brush up 
on our tolerance training. 

WHH