HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 03:07:30 EDT
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
 <96448@netnews.upenn.edu> <1992Nov6.212211.29037@cs.tulane.edu>

In article <1992Nov6.212211.29037@cs.tulane.edu>, js@cs.tulane.edu (Jan
Silbermann) says:
>   I was trying not to give too much information as I don't want to
> say anything about the actual people involved which could be
> damaging to either one.
>
> I am sorry for all the baggage flying back and forth, that is not
> what I intended to happen.

welcome to s.c.j.:)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk (Stephen Phillips)
Subject: Re: British Royal Family question.
Cc: stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk
Reply-To: stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:17:00 +0000


> +From         : jweber@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (jodi.weber)
> +Subject      : Re: British Royal Family question.
> 
> On "thirtysomething" a few years back, Melissa was talking about this very
> subject.  She noted that the Royal Family used a mohel to circumcise their
> male babies, thereby giving him the title of the Royal Mohel.

To get the sense right, you have to write it as "Royal Moyel". :-)

> (It was actually nice to see at the end of the episode that the baby, who
> had been named Leo, was called Aryeh Lev ben Michael.  They got the
> translation right.)

> Why does (did) the royal family use a mohel instead of a surgeon or some
> other M.D.?


Presumably because Mohelim are THE experts in circumcision. Also, the
Royal Mohel, Dr. Snowman, was an M.D..

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stephen (Yisroel) Phillips      Tel: 44-895-442141
Burch Phillips & Co.            Fax: 44-895-421231
63a Station Road
West Drayton
Middlesex
UB7 7LR
United Kingdom                  stephenp@compulink.co.uk
From: moochie@camelot.bradley.edu (Melissa Koontz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Modest dress in Judaism (was Re: sexism in Judaism)
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:19:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: camelot.moochie.720983949
Distribution: na
Organization: Bradley University


   How would one determine what is modest dress for a young lady who
is attending a university?


--
	The wise horse cares not how fast a man may run.
				- Armenian Proverb

moochie@camelot.bradley.edu             Adelind von Rosenberg
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: schw_mi@pts.mot.com (Michael Schwarz)
Subject: Death of Aunts and Uncles
Reply-To: schw_mi@pts.mot.com
Organization: Paging and Wireless Data Group
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:28:53 GMT

Yesterday I lost my father's sister to hepatitis.  I say my father's sister and not my
aunt because since 1962, I have seen her a total of 10 times, the last being at my
sister's wedding in 1987.  She refused to come to my wedding two years earlier, 
despite by father asking her.  In addition, my "AUNT" did nothing until 1987 to call
my father or my uncle.  My father always initiated communications between my aunt and
him.  

My father, his sister, and brother escaped from Germany in 1941 with the help 
of his mother(who then went back to the camps).  When the German government started
offering restitution, my aunt refused to signed the papers for a long period of time,
delaying the whole procedure.(My father's memory of the whole thing is fuzzy so I 
really don't know why)

Due to monetary problems, I can't attend the funeral Wednesday.

Question is what is my obiligations under jewish law in this matter???

thanks in advance


---
Michael A. Schwarz
A missed place Bronco Fan in Dolphin Country.
Go Broncos

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rmt51@cas.org (Rick Turkel)
Subject: Re: Prayer shawls
Reply-To: rmt51@cas.org
Organization: S.W.I.G.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:47:00 GMT

A friend of mine in St. Louis tied tzitzit onto the four corners of a
beautiful woolen Mexican blanket (broad, multicolored stripes) and
sometimes wears it as his tallit.
-- 
Rick Turkel           (___  ____ _  _  _  _  _     _  ___   _  _ _  ___
(rmt51@cas.org)           )    |  |  \  )  |/ \     |    |   |  \_)    |
(rmt51@cas.bitnet)       /     | _| __)/   | __)    | ___|_  | _( \    |
			Ein navi be`iro.            |

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jjsulliv@COLBY.EDU (Nice Young Lady(tm))
Subject: Prayer shawls
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <jjsulliv@COLBY.EDU (Nice Young Lady(tm))>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:17:19 GMT


I see a great variety of tallit (where is my hebrew textbook when i need a 
plural form?) in our local temple, from the plain white with a few blue stripes,
to the rabbis gold-embroidered one, some with colored embroidered hebrew letters,
I've even seen on with BLACK stripes and one covered totally with blue stripes (most of them only have a few stripes on either end, this one looked like
some sort of kitsch horse blanket).  I want to make (handsew, embroider, etc.)
a tallis for a friend of mine, as a gift, and I was wondering, among
all the variations, what are the absolute REQUIRED characteristics of prayer
shawls, and what variations are dictated mostly by fashion, and, of them, what do you all find preferable?  

JJ
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 16:00:10 EDT
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: WARNING: Sam Saal coercion
 <emc.721074151@pulaski>

In article <emc.721074151@pulaski>, emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout) says:
>
>In <1992Nov6.163303.7364@nynexst.com> schwartz@nynexst.com (Steven Schwartz)
>writes:
>
>
>>Come to think of it, Eli, I also wouldn't object to
>>your hasty departure.
>
>>G'bye.
>
>Thanks for your opinion Steven.
>At least it is publicly posted for all to see.
>
>It's a good thing however that this isn't the wild west or you
>might have your guns out and saying "This town ain't big enough..."
>
>I recommend that all who are interested start
>soc.culture.jewish.moderated as the Xtian newsgroup has.  That
>way, you can squash all dissenting opinion before it even
>gets posted, and without having to use coercion (Sorry for the typo).
>And you would not have to hear from me or anyone else that you
>object to.  Until then I'll assume that democratic principles
>are in operation.
>
>>Steven H. Schwartz             Expert Systems Laboratory
>>schwartz@nynexst.com           NYNEX Science and Technology Center
>>PROFS: SCHWARTZ@UNIX           500 Westchester Avenue
>>914-644-2960                   White Plains NY 10604
>--
>Eli Chiprout
>Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
>emc@doe.carleton.ca
>"Je ne peut etre sauf qui je suis"

I suspect that if Sam Saal were the moderator, he would rapidly become the
sole appender. I maintain that debate is the life essence of Judaism, an attack
on Jewish debate is an attack on Judaism itself. I was once told that it is
written one must "love G-d with your entire mind" this means it is wrong
to ignore doubt or dissent in the name of faith, rather true faith necessitates
debate. As for Sam, I have informed him of my postmaster's request for copies


of his abusive posts (ie accusations of anti-semitism and of lying) presumable
so some action could be taken. I have informed Sam that I will take no action
as long as he ceases and desists both e-mail to me and posting abusive posts.
He has so far complied. I suggest that if anyone else is being harassed by Sam
they inform him that if he persists in his activity, he will be reported on.
From: emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout)
Subject: Re: What Does it take to be a Prophet/Messanger?
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 16:29:54 GMT

In <BxEnLt.CDI@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:

>In article <1992Nov8.143442.15078@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov8.030057.8951@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny
>>Keren) writes:

>>> I would be grateful for answers to the following:

>>> 2) Are there any criterions one has to fill to be considered a
>>>   prhophet/messanger?

>>Maimonides spells them out in detail in Hilchos Yesodei HaTorah,
>>particularly chapters 7-10 and thereabouts.  Among the qualifications
>>are scrupulous Torah observance, impeccable character, a demostrated
>>ability to tell the future precisely and accurately, physical health,
>>avoidance of daily trivialities, and maintenance of a consistently
>>high level of spirituality.

>This does not jibe with some of those generally considered to be
>prophets.  Balaam (Bil'am) is accepted as a prophet, and while he
>could be excused for not observing Torah, his character was far
>from impeccable.  

>One of the most successful prophets, from the standpoint of God,
>was Jonah.  Certainly his character was not impeccable.  Also, he
>was successful ONLY because his foretelling the future caused acts
>which made his predictions false!

>Many of the recognized prophets made no predictions whatever.
>False predictions are stated in the Torah as a way of recognizing
>a false prophet.  The idea of a prophet was someone who broadcast
>at least a reasonable version of what God wanted said.

This is a good point.  We can trace the change of the concept of prophet
through the Tanach.  The earliest writings interchange prophet (navi) with
seer (ro-eh) where the emphasis is on predicting the future (I Sam 9:9).
Later the concept changed emphasis, probably around the time of Elijah,
Sometimes the early prophets had accompanying ecstatic states (Bamidbar)
In the time of Samuel the prophets were organized in bands (I Sam. 10:5,10)
while in the time of Elijah were members of prophets' guild ( I Melachim
20:35).  Later, the primary emphasis on true prophets was their MORAL teaching
rather than foretelling the future or doing any supernatural acts, and
as spokesmen for God.

>Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
>Phone: (317)494-6054
>hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
>{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
--
Eli Chiprout
Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
emc@doe.carleton.ca                                     
"Je ne peut etre sauf qui je suis"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: markr@mot.com (Mark)
Subject: Re: Autopsy - Kahane and Rosenbaum
Reply-To: markr@mcil.comm.mot.com
Organization: MCIL
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:22:00 GMT

In article <92306.1839142893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>In article <1992Nov1.224610.9790@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>,
>friedenb@silver.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg) says:
>>
>>I heard that part of the reason that there was no convictions in the
>>murder cases of R. Meir Kahane and Yankel Rosenbaum was because the
>>families would not consent to an autopsy.
>
>
>Frankly, I always thought the guy who got Kahane deserved a medal.

This is absolutely ridiculous, lets have a collection to get a medal for
Gedaliah after he kills Farhakkan for us, since he believes it is better
to silence a person by killing him rather than refuting him.

Mark


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Bobby Fischer's anti-semitism
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:53:48 GMT
Reply-To: simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov)
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: Boston University

In article <BxKr7w.JDz@acsu.buffalo.edu> v206gb6c@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (IS AN ILLEGAL PERSONAL NAME) writes:
>
>    I just read that former chess champion Bobby Fischer blames his quitting
>world chess play on the Jews.  The article also said he has made other
>anti-semitic remarks in the past.  Can anyone comment on this?

I have very mixed feelings about him :
first, when I was 10, and he - a world champ, I studied
hundreds of his games, and maybe even now remember some
of his great ideas.

2 - He is jewish himself, and while being young refused to play
on Shabbat. He got into trouble because of that in 1968 (?) pretendent
tournament in Tunis, when in the last moment ( several hours before Shabat) 
his request to change a date was declined, he left the tournament,
otherwise he could possibly become a champion 4 years eoarlier in really
young age. 
Sidenote: it was funny to read this story in Soviet books, where mentioning
of Shabbat was censored and the story sounded really funny.

3 - Although he blames Jews for everything, he still is in good 
relationships with 1/2 Jew Spassky and is going to play one of
Polgar sisters, who are also Jewish.

4 - I think, he is plain sick, maybe also influenced by a X sect,
he was (is?) involved for some time.

5 - I guess more info is available in rec.games.chess

Simon Streltsov			    	! Disclaimer :
PhD Student,				! I can not speak for the
Dept. of Manufacturing Engineering	! Engineering Dept, ONLY because
Boston University			! I claim to be a mathematician..


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: friedenb@boswell.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Subject: Lecture Recommendation - R' Dovid Gottleib
Reply-To: friedenb@boswell.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 06:56:33 GMT


There is a fantastic speaker currently touring the East Coast who I highly
recommend to all Jews.

R' Dovid Gottleib, a lecturer from Ohr Somayach Yeshiva in Jerusalem.
He was a Professor of Philsosophy at Johns Hopkins U. and recently published
a book called "The Informed Soul" from ArtScroll.

I had the honor of eating Shabbos lunch with him yesterday, and I know
that he will be at Penn State this week.  Send me mail and I can *try*
to find out more of his schedule.  Otherwise call Ohr Somayach and they 
*may* be able to help you: 1-800-431-2272

Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
-=-Michigan State University
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:42:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: netnews.96448
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)

In article <1992Nov6.003524.9730@netcom.com>, solovay@netcom (Andrew Solovay) writes:
>As I recall, the question was, under what circumstances might
>Orthodox Jews view a conversion as invalid.

I don't recall Orthodoxy being mentioned in the original post.  But I do
have the impression that unconversion is a rare, but mostly an Orthodox
phenomenon, so it seems to be a reasonable assumption when such a question
is raised.

>					     One such circumstance
>would be an invalid bet din. There's pretty much only one
>siutuation in which a bet din is convened which an Orthodox Jew
>would consider invalid, and that's when the members of the bet
>din belong to a non-Orthodox movement.

Hardly so.  There are Orthodox rabbis that have trouble with other
Orthodox rabbi's conversions, who apparently are in it for the money
or other embarrassments.

>				        Given that, it was
>entirely appropriate to give a Conservative bet din as an example.

I agree.  Whoever was seeking general information about a potential
unconversion needs the information, not the politics.  General statements
about "maybe the beis din wasn't kosher" _without_ giving examples is
not very informative.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: terra@athena.mit.edu (Terra Incognita)
Subject: Re: sexism
Organization: MIT - DMSE and Bait
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:43:09 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.053807.7220@sarah.albany.edu> mark@fenris.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger) writes:
>In article <GJSSBPF6@cc.swarthmore.edu> mwertz1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Melanie Wertz) writes:
>>No one has answered my questions yet.  Why is it that MEN are not barred
>>from appearing provocative to women?  WOMEN EXPERIENCE ATTRACTION TOO!
>
>Barred or not, how many observant men do you know that dress
>immodestly or provocatively?

This raises the interesting question of what constitutes "immodest"
or "provocative" dress for men?  Off the top of my head, all I
can think of is "less clothes".  Is there, in fact, some sort of
official standard of modesty for Jewish men with a specific "dress
code", as there seems to be for women?

--
Terra Incognita                             terra@athena.mit.edu
Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, MA    USA
"Work. Worry. Consume. Die. It's a wonderful life." (Lippy)
From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: AIDS testing in Israel
Date: 8 Nov 92 07:31:21 GMT
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

I just heard on the Sunday morning news that the Israeli Ministry of the
Interior will now demand AIDS testing for anyone requesting a tourist visa for
a period of over 3 months. From what I understood, the policy will soon be
extended  to those requesting to come on ALIYA.

Josh
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.african-american,misc.legal
From: goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman)
Subject: Re: ARF says is aint so
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:32:12 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

In article <BxGzLz.K2A@world.std.com> srm@world.std.com (Stevens R Miller) writes:
>arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes:
...
>As it happens, persons with Jewish sounding surnames were called for the
>Nelson jury, but all asked to be excused (this according to the Brooklyn
>DA, in a report published by the National Jewish Post and Dispatch).

>
>Now, I agree with Jack that a racial mix does not necessarily yield justice,
>nor would I assert that an unmixed jury necessarily precludes justice.  My
>point here is simply that if the jury's verdict in the Nelson case was the
>product of pro-black, anti-Jewish bigotry, then blacks, whites and Hispanics
>who all held that type of prejudice somehow got by the prosecutor during
>voir dire.

    The verdict could have been (in part) the product of fear: those would-be 
    jurors who were ready to consider the evidence had asked to be excused 
    fearing retribution and/or a Central LA-style riot in their own backyard, 
    leaving those who were pre-disposed toward acquittal.

   I do not understand why the trial had to be held in Brooklyn.

>  Given the conflicting testimony of the police, I believe what
>some of the jurors said was the reason for their verdict:  They didn't believe
>the evidence.  What's so hard about accepting that reason?

    Isn't that the same reason why Kahane's murderer was acquitted of
    murder charges?
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Subject: Re: Kosher Question: Eggs and chesse
Reply-To: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 16:03:36 GMT

In article <13NOV199210332754@utkvx2.utk.edu>, egw@utkvx2.utk.edu (Wolpert, Edward Greenwal) writes:
|> 	Just a quick question: I was over at a friends house who made a
|> chesse ohmlet(sp).  I was taught (read: my mother says) that since an
|> egg comes from a chicken that you can't have it with chesse.  Is this true?

Not true.  Eggs are "pareve" - i.e., neither dairy nor meat.  Also, the fact 
that an egg comes from a chicken is not relevant - after all, milk itself
comes from cows!
-- 
Elie Rosenfeld      | "I am what I am, Leila -- and if there are self-made
Bellcore            |  purgatories, then we all must live in them.
Piscataway, N.J.    |  Mine is no worse than someone else's."
(908) 699-8800      |                     - Spock, "This Side of Paradise"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:10:40 GMT

bd@fluent@dartmouth.EDU (Brice Dowaliby) writes:

> Trial is supposed to be by a jury of the defendant's peers, not
> a jury of the victim's peers.                        ^^^^^

Where is this written?

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: icpa@iat.holonet.net (Tony Rodriguez)
Subject: International Software Jobs
Organization: HoloNet (BBS: 510-704-1058)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 20:32:23 GMT

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Director ICPA


International Computer Professional Association
2261 Market Street, Suite 309
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Tel: (415) 695 - 7618
Fax: (415) 252 - 5769

email icpa@holonet.net



Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: silverm@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Jeff Silverman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish Fundamentalism
Date: 8 Nov 92 01:02:01 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle

Maybe this is going to sound naive, but here goes anyway.

There are moral principles.  There are ethical rules.  There are religious
regulations.

Moral rules are great, sweeping generalizations, which we believe to be
universal in scope.  Examples include "Thou shalt not murder", "Remember the
sabbath and keep it holy", "Be polite", etc.  As Jews, we hold that murder
is repellent to us, so this is something we avoid whenever possible.  I think
that at this point, the fundementalist Jews and the rest of us are in agreement.

Then there are ethical rules.  These include questions of what is and is not
justifiable homicide, how do we remember the sabbath, and questions of courtesy.
Here is where people disagree.  It is reasonable for people to disagree on
what is justifiable and non-justifiable homicides, and I will leave it to
the reader to develop good arguments on both sides of the question.  There is
a lot of debate over how to remember the sabbath.  There is debate over questions
of courtesy.

The question, in my mind, comes down to the objective of the person on the
other side of the discussion.  We can legitimately disagree on questions of
ethical rules, but we have to respect the decisions of others if their 
ethical rules are grounded in moral principles.  If the other person in the
discussion cannot connect their ethical rule system to moral principles, then
you might have reasonable grounds to take issue with what they are doing.


I won't even touch the question of religious regulations: I'm probably going
to get into a lot of trouble as it is anyway.



Bottom line: I am not sure that you are listening to one another.  This is a
hard concept to understand as none of these messages are audible; they're
carried by computer; but there is a process whereby you understand at least
what the other person communicates and respond to it.


Jeff Silverman, Boeing




Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Jewish Movies on Video? (Bernard Malamud)
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 03:28:25 GMT

segs@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (susan.e.slusky) writes:

#something I can't remember the name of, based on a novel 
#of B. Malamud, starring R. Steiger.

Just guessing - would that be "The Assistant"?

If so, I hope it was better than the adoption of other books of his.
Two great novels, "The Natural" and "The Fixer", were made into
two truly horrible movies.

-Danny Keren.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.african-american,misc.legal