HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: misc.legal
Subject: Re: Another Gun Thread Gets Cross-Posted
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:09:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.44209
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <1992Apr6.224331.11723@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Joe.Francis@dartmouth.edu (Joe Francis) writes:
>In article <10317@optilink.UUCP>
>cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

|. So tell me, do we similarly restrict free speech to the sort of
|. printing presses used in 1791?  We either take an expansive view
|. of "press", "speech", and "arms", or we take the narrow definition
|. based on 1791 technology.

>Are you claiming that those who prefer an "expansive view" of free
>speech but prefer a "narrower definition" of our arms rights are
>hypocritical?  If so, would you please explain how you arrived at this
>conclusion?

>Perhaps if the second amendment had read "...the right of the people to
>defend themselves in any way available against right wing bigots who
>desire to dictate their private lives using the force of
>government...", I would be able to see your point.

Why are you excluding the left-wing bigots?  They are at least as
desirous of eliminating our gun rights, and many others which the
right-wing bigots will allow us.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Newsgroups: misc.legal
From: olson@acf9.nyu.edu (David Olson)
Subject: Re: Noriega Trial Implications
Keywords: FEMINISMUS DELENDUS EST
Organization: New York University
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 16:22:58 GMT

matt@smoke.brl.mil (Matthew Rosenblatt) writes:

>Since when does the protection of the American Constitution extend
>to foreign despots acting in foreign countries? [rhetorically, of course]

It doesn't seem to extend to government action overseas, either, so we
get such absurd policies as supporting dictatorships and repressive
regimes to further our business and general ideology interests.  Because
business is our main interaction with other countries, it isn't surprising
that their interests dominate the agenda, but we should not leave behind
our principles.


>... Justice for the American "crack babies" demands that Noriega be 
>punished for protecting the dope dealers whose crack ruined the 
>babies' lives.

And I'd like to see some evidence that crack babies exist.  The most
recent review found only a possible connection with urinary tract
defects.  The rest were attributed to other know defect-causing
substances such as alcohol and nicotine.  I expect that Matt Rosenblatt
is more than willing to call for justice for those drug pushers who sell
from convenience stores, those propagandists who push on TV and on 
billboards, and who make and grow the stuff.   I wish him luck.


david
Newsgroups: misc.legal
From: mmwang@adobe.com (Michael Wang)
Subject: Re: Justice Thomas (was Socialism Security Rides Again)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Distribution: usa 
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 01:07:38 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.214615.21832@midway.uchicago.edu> Ted Frank writes:
>In article <1992Apr9.141507.1@hamp.hampshire.edu>
>jyanowitz@hamp.hampshire.edu writes:
>>BTW, I don't like Thomas, and I think it's a disgrace that
>>he (along with 7 others) upheld beatings of prisoners in jail, along
>>with other heinous descisions.  
>
>Thomas did not uphold "beatings of prisoners in jail."  The vote was
>a decision that it was not a Constitutional violation by the government
>when its employees engage in unreasonable beatings -- the prisoner, I
>believe still has a cause of action against the guards who beat him,
>just not a Constitutional one.  Not optimal, to be sure, but hardly
>in support of beating prisoners.  Read the opinions rather than the
>propaganda regarding the opinions.  (I don't believe seven others
>voted with Thomas either -- I thought he was on a losing 7-2 side.)

From my recollection, Thomas said to the effect, "I don't believe
that beatings in jails constitutes 'cruel and unusual punishment.'"
The other person that agreed with him was Scalia. Everybody else
believed that those beatings were unconstitutional (I believe they
upheld the state court's ruling).

-- 
Michael Wang
mmwang@adobe.com
Newsgroups: misc.legal,alt.bbs
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Subject: Little Rascals Jury deliberating ...
Originator: hes@ccvr1.cc.ncsu.edu
Organization: Computing Center, North Carolina State University
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 00:03:19 GMT

  Eight days of deliberation have passed, the jury has requested
thousands of pages of transcripts of testimony, and the judge gave
the jury a pep talk after they recessed today. (wednesday)

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
From: tucker@shiva.edsg.hac.com (George Tucker)
Newsgroups: misc.legal
Subject: Re: INFO: References and Quotes about Jury Nullification
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:01:49 GMT
Reply-To: tucker@shiva.hac.com (George Tucker)
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

In article <1992Apr10.211704.22206@crash.cts.com> danr@pro-franklin.cts.com (Daniel Roberts) writes:
>I wonder if some of the support for jury nullification in historic writings
>would be tempered by the reality that today's jury often does not reflect a
>true cross section of the community nor the peers of the defendant to the
>degree that it did when the Bill of Rights was drafted.

If you are a stable white male resident of what passes for a "community" 
nowadays, a jury is less likely to be composed of what you would regard as
"peers".  Otherwise the modern jury is probably closer to the ideal than the
late 19th century jury.  In any case, according to my dictionary one 
definition of "peer" is "equal before the law", which is theoretically
true of all citizens (those with political connections being even more
equal).

As for comprising a "cross-section", I would guess that at least people who
know much about the Bill of Rights or jury nullification are discriminated
against.

	George Tucker        tucker@kali.hac.com
		Just say NO to incumbents.
Newsgroups: misc.legal
From: jwoodman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jonathan A Woodman)
Subject: Re: Photos of minors
Organization: The Ohio State University College of Law
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 15:39:17 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.112048.16691@eff.org> jkogan@eff.org (Julia Kogan) writes:

>Carl, for once you're not completely right:  there is settled law on
>possession of child pornography.  See Osborne v. Ohio, 58 U.S.L.W. 4467
>(1990), in which the Court upheld a statute criminalizing even private
>possession of sexually explicit nude photos of children.  Rationale:  
>to prevent exploitation and abuse of children.

Since Carl was involved in last year's debate over _Osborne_, I'm willing
to say that he is well aware of the case and what it says. But he is 100%
correct that the laws are unclear as to *what* constitutes child pornography.
Sure, we know that the possession of "sexually explicit nude photos of
children" is illegal in Ohio, but how do you determine which pictures are
and which pictures are not? Like Justice Stewart, are we all just suppose
to "know it when we see it"? I would prefer it if the laws were a little
more specific so that people would have a better idea how not to violate
the law.

-- 
Jonathan Woodman                   \ "I mean, sex is one thing, but reading
jwoodman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu /  to someone is *really* intimate." C. Duda
The Ohio State University          \ "Oh, you can slice that salami of 
   College of Law                  /  copyright any number of ways." S. Halpern
From: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Newsgroups: misc.legal
Subject: Re: Noriega Trial Implications
Keywords: FEMINISMUS DELENDUS EST
Date: 14 Apr 92 07:24:05 GMT
Reply-To: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland

In article <18471@smoke.brl.mil>, matt@smoke (Matthew Rosenblatt) writes:
>I wrote about Justice, and Jari Jokiniemi responds with a statement
>about Islamic law.  Are we supposed to believe that the two are
>equivalent?

You wrote about the U.S. enforcement of law particularly as regarding
Noriega, referring to it as "Justice".  Now, in the sense you are
using the word "Justice", yes, I would say that it can well be used
for Islamic law.  Then again, with the sense of "Justice" you used it
can reasonably be said that a court who uses Lewis Carroll's Alice in
Wonderland as it's highest authority is enforcing Justice.

//Jyrki
Newsgroups: misc.legal
From: russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto)
Subject: Re: jury nullification
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 18:04:05 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <21199@hacgate.UUCP> tucker@shiva.hac.com (George Tucker) writes:
>In article <1992Apr09.152612.16381@eng.umd.edu> russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes:
>>
>>(obviously, I am a believer in 'natural law'.  However, I think that
>>some procedurally good laws can be shown to be substantially bad, even
>>without that assumption.  For instance, a law as widely violated as
>>speed limit 55 cannot be a good law.)
>
>Didn't people once claim it was "God's will" or some similar synonym 
>for "natural law" that people should not go faster than 15 mph?

"God's will" and natural law are not the same.  God can worry about
enforcing his own will....

>I am a believer in 'natural law' too;  like you, I believe that my
>opinions are Truth and the only rational basis for Law.
>
>Anyway, the solution is very simple.  Mandatory execution of anyone
>who drives over 55mph will reduce the number of violations substantially
>and thereby render it a Good law.

I think you will find that the othe bad side effects will destroy this
solution.  For instance, NOBODY will stop for the flashing blue
lights...


-- 
Matthew T. Russotto	russotto@eng.umd.edu	russotto@wam.umd.edu
Some news readers expect "Disclaimer:" here.
Just say NO to police searches and seizures.  Make them use force.
(not responsible for bodily harm resulting from following above advice)
Newsgroups: misc.legal
From: pjs269@tijc02.uucp (Paul Schmidt)
Subject: Re: DEADBEAT ROOMATE
Organization: Siemens Industrial Automation, Johnson City TN
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 13:36:49 GMT

From article <287@esun_server40.gdc.com>, by rattinge@gdc.com (John Rattinger):
> 
> I hope someone out there can help me a problem I have with a deadbeat
> ex-roomate.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
>  
> Any Suggestions?
> 
My brother had a similar problem.  The amount was for $1200 and it was only
a verbal agreement.  A good book to read is "Getting to Yes" by Fisher and
Ury.  This will help you explore the options and try to solve the problem
outside of court.

My brother ended up filing in court, but getting all the money, just before
the court was to hear the case, from his ex-roommate.
> 
> thanks in advance
> John
> 
> email - rattinge@gdc.com

Paul Schmidt
Newsgroups: misc.legal
From: dpollard@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dennis B Pollard)
Subject: Re: Noriega Trial Implications
Keywords: FEMINISMUS DELENDUS EST
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 22:09:57 GMT

It is beside the point that Mr. Noriega may be an "innocent citizen."  The 
simply fact was that the U.S. went into Panama and removed a Panama citizen 
without due process of law, i.e., the law of the jurisdiction, which was 
Panama.

Dennis B. Pollard
Newsgroups: misc.legal
Subject: Help a qualfied immigration find a legal job
From: f71839389@milori.ccit.arizona.edu (D R Friedman)
Date: 15 Apr 1992 01:36 MST  
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona
Keywords: job
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

I have a friend who is seeking legal work in the U.S.  He is from
Hungary and very qualifed, he is desperately seeking work and will go
anywhere in the U.S.  for a job.  Arizona hasn't been kind to him.
Here is a summary of his qualifications:

Education  MBA, MS International TRade and economic policy
JD

Languages   English, Hungarian, German, Russian

Experience  REal estate, corporate, government(Hungary)

Legal Specialties  Business Law, Contracts, Real Estate,
International transactions, immigration and naturalization law
joint venture development in Europe, especially in Hungary

He has passed part 1  MRPE and has applied for part 2 California Bar

If you can help, send me E-mail and I'll pass the information to him.

Thank you for any help.


Denny Friedman                            F71839389@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu

"Any kind of machinery used for shortening labour-except used in a cooperative 
society like ours- must tend to less wages, and to deprive working men of 
employment and finally either starve them or compel them to emigrate."

	--Manifesto Cooperative Community County Clare Ireland, 1883
	on the introduction of the reaping machine.

April 11, 1992:  Thousands of IBM workers were declared "surplus" and told to
get another job within IBM or get severance pay.
Xref: sparky alt.sex:14698 misc.legal:9347 rec.arts.tv:9675
From: rlcollins@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Ryan 'Gozar' Collins)
Newsgroups: alt.sex,misc.legal,rec.arts.tv
Subject: alt.sex,misc.legal,rec.arts.tv
Date: 15 Apr 92 21:02:27 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

In article <1992Apr8.135341.3401@CERIS.Purdue.EDU>, jheath@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Jim Heath) writes:
> It isn't just for "pornographic" purposes.  There was a piece on
> 60 minutes, last fall I think, about a photographer who was
> arrested and had his entire life work confiscated because he had
> some pictures of nude children (as far as I could tell, _no_ sex
> acts were portrayed).  I understand that the negatives and prints
> were later returned (damaged), but the guy was out big $ for
> lawyers and such.  BTW, the parents of the kids gave their
> permission and were there when the pictures were taken.   
> 
> I understand that parents who have pictures of their kids in the
> buff have been prosecuted or gone after by the child protective
> services.  It is my further understanding that in some cases
> these folks have gone to jail or lost their kids.

     This sounds like the Mapplethorpe case in Cincinnati that happened
recently. An art museum was showing his collection of photos, which, if
I remember correctly, contained full nudity of children, some urinating
scenes, and something else, I can't remember. Anyway the museum's
director was taken to court on charges of pornography, but was
acquitted.

Later.......

------======={{{{{{{{((((((Ryan 'Gozar' Collins))))))))}}}}}}}}=======--------
"You can give her the usual		     rlcollins@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
things: candy, flowers, promises 	      RC1DSANU@miamiu.acs.muohio.edu
you don't intend to keep."		      rcollins@apsvax.aps.muohio.edu
  -Cogsworth	 			      R.COLLINS1 on GEnie
(Beauty and the Beast)
	------======={{{{{{{{(((((())))))))}}}}}}}}=======--------
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Newsgroups: misc.legal
Subject: Re: Supreme Court to consider limiting Habeas Corpus
Date: 26 Mar 92 00:43:22 GMT
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org

In article <1992Mar25.192648.19448@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Joe.Francis@dartmouth.edu (Joe Francis) writes:

>I'm no lawyer, but presumeably it's because of the habeas corpus
>statute passed by Congress and refered to in the article?  Corrections
>and clarifications welcome.

Habeas corpus is grounded in statute nowadays, but it predates the federal
statute. The purpose of habeas corpus is for the prisoner to raise 
Constitutional challenges to his detention by the state. Guys, don't you
ever bother to look this stuff up in Black's?


--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,     |"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis
mnemonic@eff.org | qu'on a perdus."
(617) 864-0665   | 
EFF, Cambridge   |          --Marcel Proust
Newsgroups: alt.sex,misc.legal,rec.arts.tv
From: kreme@isis.cs.du.edu (Corwit of Amber)
Subject: Re: Censoship of nudity (was Re: Photo of minor: is it illegal to possess?
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 11:36:52 GMT

garvey@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (Heather Garvey) writes:

>alyoung@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (amy young) writes:
>>smmcafee@pace1.cts.mtu.edu (SEAN M. MCAFEE) writes:
>>
>>>I can think of two examples offhand...One in "The Fisher King"; Robin
>>>William's eleventh finger was briefly visible as he danced around nude in
>>>Central Park in the moonlight.  The other was in "The Life of Brian".
>>
>>That's it... I've got to see this movie... when is it coming out on
>>video???  =)  (For those of you who haven't caught it in a post, I
>>have a thing for Robin Williams... )

>	I just saw the movie last night and, remembering this thread,
>seriously and intently watched to see if anything could be seen. You'd
>have to be able to see in the dark to catch anything. Usually the shadows
>fell *just*right*. So you'll see plenty of rear-end but *I* saw no frontal
>exposure that wasn't hidden in shadow...

Get a better TV and/or watch the movie off of Laserdisc instead of tape.
 (Yes, it is there.  I remember being quite suprised at the time)

--
   | kreme@isis.cs.du.edu | The Coven BBS [303/777-2911] 1st METAL in MST |
   | kreme@#22 (FV3 Net)  | MST3K, Spacer Quest 3.4w, Anime files, & More |
   | [303/722-2009] Voice |    "Unity Sleeps" -- Neil Gaiman, Sandman     |
   |      USR HST/V.32bis, 100 Megs, All code in RAM, Super Fast          |
Newsgroups: misc.legal
Subject: fully informed jury a
From: hilary.miller@execnet.com (hilary miller)
Date: 11 Apr 92 02:11:28 GMT
Reply-To: "hilary miller" <hilary.miller@execnet.com>
Distribution: misc
Organization: Executive Networks Information


Bill Nelson, in a message to All on 04-10-92 at 4:32am, said:

BN/3: There are also preemptory challenges which allow the prosecution
   3: and defense to excuse jurors for any reason at all -- blue eyes,
   3: for instance.  These challenges, however, are limited in number.
   TMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM>

          Peremptory challenges cannot be exercised to exclude jurors
          on the basis of race or national origin.


   L A
 I    R        Hilary B. Miller of Greenwich, Connecticut
  H/\Y         CIS: 76040,1743
   s r
---
 ~ DeLuxe} 1.21 #11645 ~ Heisenberg may have been here.
--
Executive Network Information System   (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
From: danr@pro-franklin.cts.com (Daniel Roberts)
Newsgroups: misc.legal
Subject: Re: INFO: References and Quotes about Jury Nullification
Date: 10 Apr 92 21:17:04 GMT
Organization: Crash TimeSharing, El Cajon, CA

I wonder if some of the support for jury nullification in historic writings
would be tempered by the reality that today's jury often does not reflect a
true cross section of the community nor the peers of the defendant to the
degree that it did when the Bill of Rights was drafted.

Dan

---------
danr@pro-franklin.cts.com
Sysop of pro-franklin 614-462-7458 at up to 2400 BPS.
Home of pro.apo pro.scout and 2nd home of pro.law and pro.security.
From: danr@pro-franklin.cts.com (Daniel Roberts)
Newsgroups: misc.legal
Subject: Re: Get Back on Welfare Where You Belong!
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:17:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: crash.1992Apr16.151739.28110
Organization: Crash TimeSharing, El Cajon, CA

In <1992Apr14.213522.21811@midway.uchicago.edu>
thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) (U of C law school) writes:
(Stuff omitted about drunk on booze vs. power and money)
>After six months here, I'm not so sure the two are mutually exclusive.

Sadly the rate of addiction to all three seems high both in our profession and
in the medical profession.

Dan
---------
danr@pro-franklin.cts.com
Sysop of pro-franklin 614-462-7458 at up to 2400 BPS.
Home of pro.apo pro.scout and 2nd home of pro.law and pro.security.
Xref: sparky alt.sex:13530 misc.legal:8856 rec.arts.tv:9218
From: rdavis@lonestar.utsa.edu (Roger P. Davis)
Newsgroups: alt.sex,misc.legal,rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: Censoship of nudity -- babies in movies
Summary: Unclear laws
Date: 6 Apr 92 03:31:23 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio

In article <1992Apr6.030314.19143@m.cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>kflores@skat.usc.edu (Kelly Flores) writes:
>
>[...]
>>Is there an official definiton of what's legal and what isn't? Or is this
>>another one of those federal vs. state issues?
>[...]
>
 Carl Kadie writes:
>The only way to find out is get get arrested and to go to trail.
>
>If the laws were clear, only illegal material would be suppressed.
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If laws were clear we'd have to shut down all those law schools and go back
to working things out for ourselves.  Wouldn't want that, now would we!

Roger P. Davis -- rdavis@lonestar.utsa.edu --
University of Texas at San Antonio -- Where the cows come to play :).








-- 
Newsgroups: misc.legal,alt.censorship,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.guns
From: russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto)
Subject: Re: Thinking like a lawyer :-)
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 92 18:52:44 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1992Apr4.234324.11656@athena.mit.edu> sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Terminator) writes:
>>    `Black Death' Vodka Import, Riles Regulators
>>    --------------------------------------------
>>
>>       This week, the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
>>    notified Black Death's importer that the vodka's marketing --
>>    including the label that the agency itself approved in 1969 --
>>    has been deemed misleading and illegal.  U.S. officials are
>>    pursuing a peculiar technical argument: that Black Death uses
>>    misleading advertising because the name and the label's
>>    top-hatted, smiling skull logo create the impression of bubonic
>>    plague and poison, yet the bottle contains only vodka.
>>
>
>When Dan Quayle wants an ego trip, he goes over to BATF and compares
>his his normally developed brain to the the atrophied reptilian medulas
>sported by BATF agents.

Since none of the references are on April 1, I'll assume this is real.
I think an appropriate response would be to add a little poison and
bubonic plaugue bacteria, mail it to the regulators with a note saying
"Is this OK now?"

-- 
Matthew T. Russotto	russotto@eng.umd.edu	russotto@wam.umd.edu
Some news readers expect "Disclaimer:" here.
Just say NO to police searches and seizures.  Make them use force.
(not responsible for bodily harm resulting from following above advice)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: mvm@caesun6.harris-atd.com (Matt Mahoney)
Subject: Re: slim shake, NOT!
Reply-To: mvm@epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney)
Organization: CAE Design Center, Harris Corp., Melbourne, Fl.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 16:04:32 GMT

There are a couple of ways for the calories (Kcal) not to add up by:

	Kcal = carbohydrates*4 + protein*4 + fat*9 (in grams)

1.  Additional calories from other sources, such as alcohol.

2.  Calories subtracted from fiber, which is a carbohydrate, but is 
not digested.

Calories are sometimes measured by drying a food sample and burning it
(actually exploding it) in pure oxygen under high pressure inside a
calorimeter, a chamber immersed in water.  The calories are calculated 
from the temperature increase in the water:

	Kcal = (temperature increase in degrees C) * (liters of water)

which includes fiber and alcohol.

Some foods list nutritional information when "prepared as directed"
(adding other foods).  However, the label should be consistent in
this respect.  It sounds to me like the slim-shake label is simply 
wrong.

--------------------------------        _\/_
Matt Mahoney, mvm@epg.harris.com       |(TV)|  Drug of the Nation
#include <disclaimer.h>                |____|