HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kapa@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (k.a.perkins)
Subject: Re: Alternatives to Spanking?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 19:27:11 GMT
Summary: mom at the end of her rope

In article <1992Jul13.110820.1@acad3.alaska.edu>, fsacp@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
> Hi Jay here,
>   I have a question on discipline (not for Aaron, but for a 2 year old I know) 
> Lately he seems to always throw a tantrum when he doesn't get what he wants,
> and the mother turns around and spanks him for the tantrum.  This only makes
> things worse and has made it so that he cringes when he's gonna be spanked.
> She has tried Time-out and he doesn't understand the concept.  She used cold
> showers for a while, and that got so bad that for a while he was afraid to
> take showers!  Now all she has to use is the threat of one and he sort of
> behaves.
> 

It sounds to me like this mother is at the end of her rope and
needs a break.  

For the kid, I suggest something like assigning consequences
to things, explaining them verbally, and then following through.
Things like, if you throw the toy, I will put it away for the rest
of today.  You can condense it to "throw the toy, no toy" and then
immediately put it away when he throws it.  Sometimes things don't
have such obvious consequences, like when I wanted Maddie to put away
her stool, wash her face and then we were going to go to Dairy Queen.
Well, she refused to put the stool away, so we didn't go to DQ, she
went to bed instead.  I had made clear the desired sequence of events,
and when she wouldn't do her part, she didn't get her treat.

It also helps us if we spend time in situations where she's almost
guaranteed to be "good", like playing in the sandbox or somewhere where
there are no rules to be broken.  It calms us down when we are crabby
with each other.

I also try to praise good behaviour when it occurs.  2 year olds love
attention and praise.  They also are just naturally going to throw
tantrums when they don't get their way.  What else can they do?  They
have no control and no concept of deferred gratification.  Also, young 2 year
olds don't have good verbal skills, and this is frustrating to them.  I
compare it to stroke victims, who can understand others but can't make
themselves understood.  It's very frustrating.  I usually just let Maddie
have her tantrum and put her in another room if it's bothering
me or someone else.  When she calms down, she often needs a hug, which
she gets.

What this mother's doing isn't working, is it?  But it sounds like she can't
think of anything else and may be so frazzled that she doesn't need
someone telling her she's doing the wrong thing again.  She probably
already knows that.

>   Lately he's wanted to be held a lot and cuddled and she doesn't understand
> why and if she says no and he climbs up on her lap anyways, she spanks him.

I would never do this.  If a child wants to be held and cuddled, that's
what s/he should get.  We are so big that we forget how little they are and
how much they need us.

Kate Perkins
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Monday, 27 Jul 1992 14:22:03 EDT
From: <34LI6RE@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Waters Break...Go to Hospital..Why? (was Re: Use of drugs during l
 <1992Jul27.173329.11643@ast.saic.com>

My OB/GYN admitted me (9.5 yrs.ago) to the hospital when my waters
broke and I was 0.5 cm dil.  I asked and the nurse said that with the
water sac gone, the umbilical cord could prolapse, with the baby
moving down the birthcanal after it, possibly cutting off the cord's
circulation.

Holly Whitehead
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: L638615@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM (STAFFORD, KD)
Subject: Rhogam Shot
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 16:13:41 GMT

Hi out there!  Just wanted to add a little note to this subject for those
of you who are fearing the possibility of a Rhogam shot after birth (or
miscarriage/abortion).  I think the pain factor must be different for
everyone and judging from the posts I've read most people seem to think
this shot hurts pretty bad!  Mine didn't hurt at all as far as shots go,
no burning sensation, no "after" pain, and I got mine more in the hip than
in my rear.  Hope that puts some minds at ease!

Kelly
From: diane@camden.uswest.com (Diane Diesh)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Jordan: The Labor Story
Date: 27 Jul 92 19:54:46 GMT
Reply-To: diane@advtech.uswest.com
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

In article <1992Jul24.205211.81@cgc.com>, armstrongmw@cgc.com writes:

> I had Stadol while I was in labor, but it didn't take any edge off of anything
> that I could feel.  I really, really appreciated that epidural, though.  I
> would totally recommend it to anyone.  They say it extends labor, and I was
> induced so they were particularly concerned about that, but I'd rather have
> longer, less painful labor than short, excruciating pain.

Just to express an alternative viewpoint: I had an epidural for my first
child, and yes, it helped me relax; I stopped fighting the contractions and
the labor finally started progressing.  But along with the relief I also
got an IV, an internal monitor, and (of course) immobility.  I was also
catheterized post-partum.  It was over 24 hours before I was able to get
out of bed (and shakily, at that).

I had a small dose of Stadol for my second.  No IV, no constant monitoring,
no immobilization.  I got up and took a shower about 6 hours post-partum,
and went home a few hours after that.

Epidurals do a *great* job of pain relief and I believe they definitely have
their place.  Everyone should be aware of what extras they may be getting in
the bargain, though.  Discuss it with your OB.

-- 
Diane Diesh
diane@advtech.uswest.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: nelson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Mike Nelson)
Subject: Re: Alternatives to Spanking?
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:45:17 GMT

In article <18753@drutx.ATT.COM> seb1@druhi.att.com writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.143510.6791@ll.mit.edu>, yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich) writes:
>|> 	Even *I*, the advocate of spanking, disagree with this.
>|> 
>|> 	Our daughter threw a tantrum once.  My wife walked away.
>|> 				     ^^^^
>
>My mom used this method. I'm one of three daughters. I remember my sister
>once throwing a tantrum in a busy department store. I'm sure many people
>would consider this to be an embarrassing situation. My mom just ignored
>her. Mom said we threw very few tantrums. My mom's take on it was we were
>doing it for the attention. She just wouldn't give us the satisfaction of
>giving us any while the tantrum was in progress. But, of course, you have
>to be willing to withstand the looks of strangers. My mom is very good at
>that.
>
>-- 
>Sharon Badian
>AT&T Bell Labs - Denver
>seb1@druhi.att.com

I'm sure looking forward to the tantrum in the busy store scene. 8-(

I think I'll try to ignore it and withstand the onlookers stares.

Is there a better way?

I've heard that removing the child from the store gives the child
too much control. ie. they can MAKE you leave the store when THEY want.

Mike N.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: daved@convex.com (David Dorfman)
Subject: Re: God's Family Values
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:57:48 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Jul22.175738.3968@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> dhanson@nyx.cs.du.edu (David L. Hanson) writes:

>Reposted with a correction(near bottom):

>Now that we have seen what man has to say about children (re: Hillary
>Clinton - Family Values), let's see some of what God has to say:

( lot's of biblical quotes,  etc)

God did not write the bible, people did, and even if God did write the
original bible, it has been revised by people repeatedly.

I am asking for the consideration of not being preached to about specific 
religous beliefs which I do not share.

Please keep your religion to yourself and those who invite you to share it
with them.

Respectfully Yours

Dave
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: shannah@netcom.com (Teri Miller)
Subject: Re: Thanks + Question re: Sharing between one-year-olds (LONG)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 06:40:08 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Jul28.001806.2226199@locus.com> judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer) writes:
>In article <TIGGER.92Jul25112112@satyr.Sylvan.COM> tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM (Grace Sylvan) writes:
>>
>>I think interfering all the time (when they aren't physically
>>*FIGHTING* or screaming for extended periods of time) does children a
>>disservice in a few ways. 
>
>This bothers me and I'll tell you why.  I was the younger cousin of a bully
>who thought is was fun to do things like try to suffocate me with a pillow,
>try to drown me in the swimming pool, glue fire crackers to my thumb and
>light them, rape me when I was 9 and he was 12, etc., etc., etc.  Needless
>to say we fought rather violently.  And the thing that sticks in my mind
>is that not ONCE did any adult intervene.  I was told things like "ignore
>him and he won't pick on you".  He would break my things, really hurt me
>(once almost putting my eye out), etc.   And were left to "work things
>out".

Judy, I don't understand this.  What I got from what Tigger was saying
was that it was appropriate to let kids try to work it out unless they
were physically *FIGHTING*. 

Wouldn't you consider what your cousin did to you to be at least *FIGHTING*,
if not something more serious?

Do you really think that Tigger would condone such actions?  I cannot 
imagine her allowing something like that to go on.  I find her a relaxed
parent (which I think is a plus, honestly) but she also seems prepared to
take action when necessary.

On balance, she also seems willing to allow her daughter the space to
try to deal with things herself, which I think is very healthy.  She
isn't (IMHO) overprotective of Kathy, but she certainly isn't a callous
or neglectful mom, either.

Not having been a parent yet, I suppose my opinions aren't really worth
much.  As a human being, though, I consider what you describe your
cousin as having done to you as torture, though, and mom or not, I
don't see Tigger as someone who would stand by and allow that to happen
to *anyone*.
From: M18611@MBVM.Mitre.Org (Kathy Wilk)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Family Values?
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:20:30 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA 01730

In article <13483@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>
pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch) writes:
>
>|> I don't know what you people think about this, but *I* think the world
>|> is becoming a very lonely place.
>
>The world is becoming lonely, you think, because biological ties are no
>longer cast in stone. Does this mean that nobody would live with you if
>they were not forced to by law? That's what it sounds like. Pitiful.
>
>Paula Burch
>pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
 
 The world is not becoming lonely.  We are learning more about things that
weren't discussed publicly before.  I now appreciate more how lonely someone
can be in some situations, now that facts are coming to light.
 
                        K. Wilk
                        M18611@MBVM.MITRE.ORG
 
            <--********************************-->
 'Thrusting my nose firmly between his teeth, I threw him to the ground
  on top of me.' - Mark Twain
            <--********************************-->
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: bhjelle@vaxine.unm.edu (Brian Hjelle)
Subject: Re: Re; Strep B?
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 22:48:28 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <9207241229.AA16883@panhed.psc.edu> grant@panhed.psc.edu (Shirl Grant) writes:
>
>I just asked my OB if he tests for this routinely and he said no.  That
>since they regularly test urine, something would show up there.  So now
>I am wondering how so many babies are being born with it.  Is it
>because we are coming down with it right before delivery?  I guess we
>should seriously worry if we come down with flu-like symptoms towrd the
>end?  Anyone know?

Group B Strep is normal vaginal flora, in other words a bug that
normally resides in the vagina. Not to creep you out or anything
but our bodies are covered with organisms, and each part of the
body has its own distinctive set of bugs. If babies were born
through the mouth babies would have another set of infectious
illnesses (a lot would be worse than gp. B strep I suspect).

Babies are at risk for group B after prolonged deliveries in
which the mom spikes a temperature. This is a situation in
which group B chorioamniitis is much more common.

Brian




>
From: singer@almaden.ibm.com (David Singer)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Where to find "Sesame Street" tapes?
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:05:17 GMT
Reply-To: singer@almaden.ibm.com (David Singer)
Organization: IBM Almaden Research Center

We've bought ours in Target ("discount department store"), and at the
Warehouse (a record/tape chain).  The tapes are produced by the same 
company that does Golden Books (I think it's Western Publishing Company,
but I don't have the tapes at my fingertips here), so you might be able
to track them down that way.

--  
David Singer -- Internet: singer@almaden.ibm.com   BITNET: SINGER at ALMADEN
                Voice: (408) 927-2509              Fax: (408) 927-4073
(If I needed a disclaimer, I'd put one here.)

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mhn@cs.brown.edu (Marian H. Nodine)
Subject: Re: God's view of children (and adults)
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:58:47 GMT

In article <111819@muvms3.bitnet> swk004@muvms3.bitnet (CONNIE LEINEN, SWK004@MARSHALL, HUNTINGTON, WV) writes:
>I've always wondered why a great deal of Christians who are so fond 
>of quoting "Honor your father and mother" and "spare the rod, spoil
>the child" ...

Umm, this may be nitpicking, but "spare the rod, spoil the child"
is *not* a quote from the bible.

>almost never quote "provoke not your children to wrath."

I find this frustrating as well.

-- Misty
From: lynn@elan.Elan.COM (Lynn Gazis)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: birth announcement (very late)
Date: 30 Jul 92 16:36:07 GMT
Reply-To: lynn@elan (Lynn Gazis)
Organization: Elan Computer Group, Inc., Mountain View, CA

What business is it of yours if the name is hyphenated?
I don't think it is any terrific burden to a child anyway,
or any more unwieldy than a lot of unhyphenated names.
I think I got more teasing about the short, unhyphenated
name of Gazis than my classmate Irene Brussel-Smith
ever got for her hyphenated name.  But never for a minute
did I wish my father had changed his name on immigration.

If a hyphenated name really bothers the child, they can
always drop one name later (my niece Caitlin Gendron-MacGinitie
may be known as Caitlin MacGinitie at school).

Lynn Gazis-Sax
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: anne@dolores.Stanford.EDU (Anne Paulson)
Subject: Re: Use of drugs during labor
Organization: Stanford University
	<1992Jul29.201849.16412@nynexst.com>
	<seS061_00WBN425ZB3@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<1992Jul30.183418.14721@nynexst.com>
Date: 31 Jul 92 12:50:19

In article <1992Jul30.183418.14721@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:

     I suppose if you've been laboring for 10 hours, it's probably
     worth the epidural pain.  It's frankly scary reading about
     the 10+ hour labor and the 2+ hour pushing, now that I
     know what it's all about. 

Oh, come on, women can deal with this.  Don't scare all these poor
women who are pregnant.  The average first labor is 17 hours long.
Or you might have a short, intense labor, or a longer, easier labor
(being in labor for two or three days is quite common).  Plenty of
women have dealt with this without resorting to pain relief, and you
can too, *if you want to*.

Just to counter all those pro-epidural stories:  My labor with Will
was seventeen *tough* hours, including an hour of "blowing" so as not
to push when I wanted to, and four hours of pushing.  Oh, and it was
induced, so the contractions were extremely painful from the start.  I
had not planned for any pain relief, and I didn't have any.  I'm glad.  

In my Bradley class, the instructor claimed that there was a study
(once again, no references, sorry) measuring women's satisfaction with
their birthing experience.  Women who, before they were in labor, had
thought they would want pain relief, and who had gotten it, and women
who had thought they wouldn't want pain relief, and who had not gotten
it, were more satisfied with their birth experiences than women who
had ended up with what they hadn't thought they would want.  Makes
sense to me.  I would have been very unhappy after Will was born if I
had had an epidural.

-- Anne Paulson
anne@dolores.stanford.edu

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mrp@world.std.com (Marjorie R Peskin)
Subject: Re: posting without netnews access
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 02:55:44 GMT

In article <9207222219.AA05163@ROC.MBIR.BCM.TMC.EDU> pburch@cmb.bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch) writes:
>
>I tried to e-mail Sherry Tatar and failed--the exclamation point appears
>to screw things up.
>
>Anyway, she, as well as others, might be interested in a service whereby
>you can post a message by mailing it to a certain address. The address
>would be
>                      misc-kids@cs.utexas.edu
>This saves getting a friend to post for you, and I think that it might be
>set up so replies go to the original sender.
>
>This service seems to work for most newsgroups, as long as you replace
>the periods with dashes.
>
>This posting will serve as a test--I'm sending it to cs.utexas.edu. If it
>works, tell your friends who want to post without having access to do so.
>
>Paula Burch
>pburch@bcm.tmc.edu


You can also post without net access using the following:

	newsgroup-name@ucbvax.berkeley.edu

Note that you have to use hyphens rather than periods in the newsgroup 
name, and that the subject might include some abbreviation if the newsgroup is 
subdivided into topics (i.e. rec-arts-tv@ucbvax.berkeley.edu  with the
subject as LA Law).

Marjorie	mrp@world.std.com


Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: jackie8@dasher.uucp (25853-brady)
Subject: Re: God's Family Values
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 20:16:58 GMT

In article <daved.711831468@convex.convex.com>, daved@convex.com (David Dorfman) writes:
> In <1992Jul22.175738.3968@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> dhanson@nyx.cs.du.edu (David L. Hanson) writes:
> 
> ( lot's of biblical quotes,  etc)
> 
> God did not write the bible, people did, and even if God did write the
> original bible, it has been revised by people repeatedly.

Excellent point.

> 
> I am asking for the consideration of not being preached to about specific 
> religous beliefs which I do not share.
> 
> Please keep your religion to yourself and those who invite you to share it
> with them.

I second that motion.

One more thing:  I never thought I'd *ever* have to say this, but ---
			GOD IS IN MY KILL FILE

:-) :-) for the :-)-impaired.

---
Jackie Brady		       
jackie8@dasher.cc.bellcore.com
Bellcore/Piscataway, NJ      908-699-5458		    
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: cew@med.unc.edu (Cathryn White)
Subject: Problem hair: Mom's
Originator: cew@pelham
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:07:50 GMT

As a friend of mine says, "I need a reality check".  My son is
2 and a half.  While I was pregnant, I had a perament during
the second and third trimesters.  I also had one about tow
months after delivery.  They all came out OK.  I did not 
loose any hair while pregnant, but did loose some postpartum.
The problem is, that for the last two years every perm I have had
has not lasted more that 3 weeks and the curl is very relaxed.
I have short hair so most of what I had while pregnant is gone.
I have switched hairdresser, but so far I still can't achieve
that pre-pregnancy look.  Has anyone else found that their
hair changed after pregnancy.  Maybe the next pregnancy will
reverse this !?!?!?!?!?

Cathryn W. Chiesa
cew@med.unc.edu
From: wang@optigfx.optigfx.com (Alice Wang)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Funny things we do: 1 week
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:52:12 GMT
Organization: Optigraphics Corporation, San Diego

In article <70413@apple.Apple.COM> scott@Apple.COM (scott douglass) writes:
>
>I bet you guys all wish your babies pooped once a week, like mine does.
>Yes, she's a fat and sassy six-month-old who's only pooped, what, thirty
>times in her whole life.  Of course, we have to get a new house each time....
>
>		--  maggie

Well, that's what Christine did from 2 weeks on, she pooped only once a
week!  We thought there was something physically wrong!  We actually
looked forward to see a poopy diaper and were disappointed if it was
just a wet one.  And when she finally had a BM, we'd be very happy and
relieve.  Never thought I'd be jumping up and down for a poopy diaper...

After numerous visits to the ped, he finally proclaimed that there is
nothing wrong except that Christine is a very efficient baby.  Apparently
she absorbed EVERYTHING she got from my breast milk, therefore, there
was no waste to produce!

Anyways, this changed when she started solids at 4 months :-(.

Alice Wang
Mom to Christine, 7 mo
wang@optigfx.com
From: llf@alice.att.com (alice!llf)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Hillary Clinton - Family Values?
Date: 29 Jul 92 20:01:56 GMT
Reply-To: llf@alice.UUCP (alice!llf)
Organization: New Jersey State Home for Bewildered Kittens

In article <1992Jul29.135904.3135@samba.oit.unc.edu> Mic.Oettinger@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Mic Oettinger) writes:
>In article <92210.211354JLB155@psuvm.psu.edu> JLB155@psuvm.psu.edu (Jennifer Brown) writes:
>
>>the best interests of the child are *usually* recognized by the parent.
>>Notice, I say "once the child is born", not "once the child is past the
>>first or second tri-mester".  I say this because, during those times, the
>>welfare of the mother is still most important to most of the mothers&fathers.
>
>I must say Jennifer, that this was THE most short-sighted and IGNORANT
>article I have read thus far. YOU have never been pregnant, so do the
>world a favor and stick your generalized comments where they would serve
>more purpose. If what you're saying is true, there would be a hell of a
.....
>>However, without actually having children of my own, in order to compare
>>and contrast the emotional feelings, this is just my opinion.  As it stands
>
>Your opinion is too asinine to even deserve to be posted!!
.....
>Jennifer, just wait til you have a child, your views will change
>drastically, (unless of course, you are greedy, overly self-centered,
>cold, or do drugs, in which case I'd say please don't bother even carrying

Do we have to do this?  Can't we talk about things in a civil fashion?

Look.  Jennifer has a valid point.  And her point is valid whether or not
she's ever been pregnant or had a child, as if there were universal
pre-qualifications on opinions.  (Hey, what about the opinions of all
the fathers?!)  And there is nothing magical about having a child that
MUST change her opinion, whether she's "greedy, overly self-centered,
cold, or do drugs" or not.

There are indeed parents who behave in the way she's described.  If there
weren't, we wouldn't have AIDs babies and addicted babies, and some number
of other horrible things that happen to newborns before they are born.  And
there are people who, no fault of their own, are forced to choose between
unborn baby and mother.  Note that this is NOT to say that ALL parents behave
that way.  (And certainly not on misc.kids.)  As with any generalization,
sometimes is applies, sometimes it doesn't.  And it says nothing about how
Mic, or anyone else in specific, behaves or what s/he believes.

And now back to your regularly scheduled flame-fest.
Lynda
-- 
					Member HASA, Atheist-Scum Division
"The One Horseman and Three Pedestrians of the Apocalypse" - Terry Pratchet
Newsgroups: misc.kids