HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scott@psy.uwa.oz.au (Scott Fisher)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with American Cars?
Date: 28 Jan 93 06:43:48 GMT
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: wapsy.psy.uwa.oz.au

"Jason M. Roth" <jr4q+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>>I think the Europeans have got the styling fairly right.

>Ah, I see, so in the Platonic world of Ideas, when one sees "car", it's
>a Citroen?

>I'm pretty sure that, of all the subjective issues in cars, styling is
>perhaps #1, and therefore the most pointless to discuss.

Why? are technical appointments any better?   
Does it not all come down to how it looks and drives?

>Case in point:
> Whichever car mag has the "Counterpoint" boxes had, for the Olds 88,
>the following [paraphrased] comments in consecutive notes: "the styling
>is American Ornate, as bland as possible" and "something here has hit
>the elusive style target", and the latter guy was referring to hip types
>who drive Cherokees, etc.! So why mention it!?  When they discuss the
>Lexus SC400, they spend half the article on styling (Porsche-derivative,
>if you ask me), and let that be part of the reason for calling it
>"perfect". But what if I find it only middling attractive? Should I buy
>it? Hard to tell from them. 

Lexus! Perfect! Who said that?????  It looks like every other car to
come out of Japan in the last few years.  The only reason the cars
from japan have been middling attractive is that (as you note) they
are adopting the european styling.  It seems that in the last 6
years the Japanese car firms have started to sucessfuly adopt and
develop the erupoean style to something they perhaps can call their own?

Should you buy the lexus? well if you love the way it looks and drives
then yes you should.  If you only find it middling then what do
the technical specifications of the car have to do with it?  Go
and find a car you love the look of and like to drive.

As for importance? It's what you see!  I am sure my XJ6 will still
be looking desirable many years after the lexus looks "old" and 
boring..now thats a good enough reason to be interested in styling for me.   

No flames intended...I do agree that reviewers should say little about
styling and concentrate on other aspects like the cars handling/drive,
maintenence, economy etc etc and let the pictures do all the talking
for style... 

Regards Scott.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Scott Fisher [scott@psy.uwa.oz.au]  PH: Aus [61] Perth (09) Local (380 3272).                
                                                             _--_|\       N
Department of Psychology                                    /      \    W + E
University of Western Australia.      Perth [32S, 116E]-->  *_.--._/      S
Nedlands, 6009.  PERTH, W.A.                                      v       

Joy is a Jaguar XJ6 with a flat battery, a blown oil seal and an unsympathetic 
wife, 9km outside of a small remote town, 3:15am on a cold wet winters morning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: wchutt@alex.monsanto.com (Bill C Hutton)
Subject: Re: HELP!!VOLVO TURBO NEEDED
Organization: Monsanto Company
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:15:01 GMT


Sorry I, just trying to catch my breath after the stunning cleverness of
the most recent reply to my plea for help (LX comment).  
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: finnegan@invader.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Kenneth Finnegan)
Subject: Volvo Mailing List...
Reply-To: finnegan@navo.navy.mil
Organization: Grumman Data Systems	
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:08:48 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-1610]: invader.navo.navy.mil

Can someone e-mail me the subscription address for the Volvo
mailing list?

Thanks....

Kenneth
finnegan@navo.navy.mil
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Politics of car buying
Date: 21 Jan 1993 14:15:25 GMT
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.239.3.202

c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
>>In Germany, where there are even fewer restrictions on importing cars than in the US
>>(no quota, no extra taxes on light trucks), Japanese cars are almost as successful as
>>they are in the US. 

>I don't think so; I have the figures in the library, but I seem to remember
>that Japanese car market share in Germany is at best in the low teens %,
>while in the US is in the upper twenties or low thirties...

Until January 1, 1992 there were extreme limitations on Japanese
imports into Germany, so I would be really surprised if in the last
year they've managed that much penetration.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com
From: damong@wpi.WPI.EDU (Damon F. Gentile)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Q: how do i know if i need a new catalytic converter?
Date: 28 Jan 93 01:52:29 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu

In article <C1J9zD.31G@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chintan Amin) writes:
>In article <1993Jan27.162959.223@osf.org> kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup) writes:

>>See what happens when Eco-Nazi's and overzealous greenies take over? There
>>is absolutely no reason a BMW dealer or independent shop couldn't have done
>>that work.
>>
>>Stupid assholes. There ain't enough money in the world to get me to move
>>out to one of those greenhead states out West. (Good thing there ain't no
>>spotted owls out here in Mass, or I'd go out and shoot one right now.)
>>
>>	-Kenny
>>
>>p.s. - of course, now that I've thought about it, this could have been pro-
>>paganda- why couldn't he have sold it in another state without green-shit-
>>for-brains lawmakers, who would allow the cat to be retrofitted?
>>-- 
>>Kenny Crudup, Contractor, OSF DCE QA
>>OSF, 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA 02142	+1 617 621 7306
>>kenny@osf.osf.org			OSF has nothing to do with this post.
>>	  Religion: The longest-running gag ever played on Mankind.
>
>	Uh, Kenneth, did you ever think that maybe the Government of the 
>owner's state has an eye out for the safety and health of not just the planet,
>but the states residents?  And as I remember, the law is a FEDERAL STATUTE, so
>it applies in Boston too.  I have NO sympathy for any asshole who, to drop
>1/10 sec in 0-60 times, removes the catalytic converter.  Oh, and BTW, good
>use of the word "ain't", it makes you look even more credible...
>	Notice the absence of ":-)'s".
>					Chintan Amin
>-- 
>Chintan Amin		Internet:  c-amin1@uiuc.edu  ->EVERYTHING I.M.H.O.<-
>The University 		NeXTMail:  cka52397@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu
>of Illinois 	  "Do we have to be forgiving at last?  What else can we do?
>Urbana   Do we have to say goodbye to the past?  Yes, I guess we do." <N.Peart

Nope sorry there big guy.  I have a 74 with a converter on it, and my
converter has had it.  So, I'm just going to get me a header that totally
bypasses the catalytic unit altogether. TOTALLY legal here in Mass, and last
time I checked, Massachusetts was in the US.  Emissions requirements you ask ?
sorry... don't have to even get tested on em.

Think of me with a 12% increase in horesepower and faster 0-60 times when 
you start to choke and gag.

After all, my converter isn't doing anything now anyway. =)  

cough cough hack wheeze carbon monoxide in the breeze !

Damon Gentile           damong@wpi.wpi.edu        73077.2420@compuserve.com
From: doan@aslws01.asl.dl.nec.com (Duc Doan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: mail order a car through car/puter acceptance corp.
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:45:02 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NEC America, Inc Irving TX

I plan to buy a Ford XLT Explorer via the mail with car/puter International
Corp. I would like to know if anyone have experience with this concept of
buying a car through the mail. Is this a good or bad way to buy a car. They
advertised that they can buy you a car for only a $100.00 over invoice.
Is this true?           Thx. DD.
-- 
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
| Duc H. Doan               	  doan@asl.dl.nec.com			|
| NEC America, Inc.                                         		|
| Advanced Switching Lab          TEL: (214) 518-3608       		|
From: david@xlnt.com (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Vehicle size vs. safety (was: Crash Test Info ... )
Date: 21 Jan 93 00:18:30 GMT
Organization: XLNT Designs, Inc (XDI)

In article <96654@rphroy.ph.gmr.com>, rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com (Bob Haar) writes:
|> In article 5984@pcx.ncd.com, johnl@pcx.ncd.com (John Light) writes:
|> |>In article <mills.727332343@dialup.athena.lkg.dec.com> mills@athena.lkg.dec.com (George Mills) writes:
|> |>>Also Size seemed to make very little difference. Some big cars did
|> |>>terrible and some samll ones did great.
|> |>
|> |>Crashing into a fixed barrier negates the advantages of size.  Think of
|> |>crashing into a fixed barrier as the same thing as crashing into a copy
|> |>of your car going your speed head on.  The heavier you are, the bigger the
|> |>impulse from the collision, negating the safety advantage of your bigger
|> |>car.  It is a good test of what it would be like crashing into a concrete
|> |>abutment, but it isn't a good test of what it would be like to crash into
|> |>an average car (unless you happen to be driving an average car).
|> |>
|> 
|> Let me add some data to this discussion. The following is paraphrased
|> from "Traffic Safety and the Driver" by Leonard Evans and is based
|> on the FARS database which contains entries for all on-road vehicle
|> accidents which result in fatalities.
|> 
|> The effect of relative mass is more pronounced in two-car accidents,
|> but even in single-car accidents, the risk of death is higher in
|> lighter cars. When both types of accidents are combined, a person
|> in a 900 kg car is 2.8 times as likely to die in an accident as
|> a person in an 1800 kg car.

The thing about a lighter car is that there is less material to absorb
the energy.  Of course, mass is not the end all in energy absorption.
The car body can be designed to make it more efficient in absorbing
energy without transfering it to the passengers.

I remember reading in the newspaper in 1988 that one model of Porshe
had the second best injury in a collision record of any car.  I am sure
the Porsche is not massive, just well designed so the car absorbs the
energy rather than the passengers.

-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: colombo@bronco.fnal.gov
Subject: Re: 1987 Toyota Camry
Organization: Fermilab Computing Division
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 22:31:33 GMT

In article <1993Jan28.035348.22162@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu>, zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski) writes:
> 
> I'd like to hear any info at all on the 1987 Toyota Camry.  What are its
> strong points?  Weak points?  I'm not talking about styling, I'm talking 
> about reliability, power, quality, etc.
> 
> Does it differ significantly from the '88, '89, etc?
> 

I had one, bought it new in Dec 1986.  By Dec 1989, things started
going bad, so I wanted to trade it in, but the price of a new one
chased me away.  Pound for pound, I felt I could get a better American
made car so I looked around.  I settled on the Cutlass.  I was comparing
a decked out Camry with ground effects package for $24K to a decked out
Cutlass Supreme International for $23.4K.  The Cutlass was the winner.
I have now owned the Cutlass for three years and it has stood up 100%.
The ride is much better, the Camry would bottom out when entering my
driveway, the Cutlass doesn't.  Lots more room, and I got a CD player
to boot.  This car even converted my wife from Japanese cars.  (Both
cars are/were mainly driven by her).

-- 
 ___________________________________________________________________________
 *****  *   *  From the e-net desk of: Rick Colombo CD/DCD/DSG    *    *
 *      **  *  Fermi Nat'l Acc'l Lab   708-840-8225 Fermilab     * *   *
 ***    * * *  P.O. Box 500   MS 369   Feynman Computer Center  *****  *
 *      *  **  Batavia, Ill. USA 60510 Colombo@fnal.fnal.gov    *   *  *****
 *    Of course I speak for: Fermilab, Congress and the President... NOT!!!
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Lieutenant Ripley at The Institute for Telling Lice)
Subject: The psychology of car-mania
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 10:04:56 GMT


I wonder if anyone has ever done a serious psychological study to
determine why we are all so obsessed with cars. One can imagine various
Freudian theories...but I did say "serious".
From: clayb@county.lmt.mn.org (Clay Babcock)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Lotus Elan in 'Basic Instinct'
Date: 24 Jan 93 18:28:52 GMT
Organization: LaserMaster R&D, Minneapolis, MN  USA

In article <SS.93Jan20101639@wpi.WPI.EDU> ss@wpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter) writes:
>From: ss@wpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter)
>Subject: Re: Lotus Elan in 'Basic Instinct'
>Date: 20 Jan 93 10:16:39 GMT

>>>>>> On 20 Jan 1993 08:45:42 -0500, grahamt@phantom.gatech.edu (Graham E. Thomas) said:

>grahamt> grego@bit.UUCP (Greg Sanguinetti) writes:

>>Not to mention the old James Bond movie (thunderball?) that featured
>>the amphibious Esprit. I think it was even sumbersible!

>grahamt> Does anyone know these titles?

>The Lotus that turns into a sub, is From Russia with Love. I think.

>--
> Scott Streeter                             Visit the Star Wars Archive at
> ss@wpi.wpi.edu                             wpi.wpi.edu       130.215.24.1

Nope.
The Spy Who Loved Me.  Roger and Barbra Bach. (Submersible)

The Blown-to-bits Lotus was 'For Your Eyes Only'.  Roger again.

Clay Babcock
clayb@county.lmt.mn.org
From: byrd@mscf.med.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: elderly drivers
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:47:14 GMT
Organization: Univ of Penn - Med School Computer Facility

In article <1993Jan21.181555.19554@newsgate.sps.mot.com>, mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw) writes:

[some deleted]

> What the general public needs to come to grips with is that making it possible for
> an elderly driver to still drive to the grocery on their own is not really doing
> them a service.  With the cost of owning a car going up each year, the real
> solution should be to find ways to give the elderly the same mobility at a reduced
> cost with more safety.
> 
> But as long as the public has this pre-occupation with driving a car as being some
> sort of test of manhood or personal worth, I doubt if anything can be done to improve
> the situation.

Interestingly no one has brought up the possibility that it
will get much worse, before it gets better, as baby boomers age.


	Karen Byrd, VAX Sys. Manager
	University of Pennsylvania
	Medical School Computer Facility
	Philadelphia, PA 19104 (USA)
	Internet: byrd@mscf.med.upenn.edu
From: ss@wpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Rain-X?
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:43:58 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu
In-reply-to: goyal@utdallas.edu's message of 27 Jan 93 18:14:21 GMT

>>>>> On 27 Jan 93 18:14:21 GMT, goyal@utdallas.edu (MOHIT K GOYAL) said:

goyal> Does this product really work?

Yes...

goyal> If so, are their any side-effects, or consequences?

They make your wipers squeak if there isn't alot of rain. But I have
driven in downpours with my wipers off. But if your driving in the
city, you don't get the force to push the rain back, so the
intermediate wiper usage may be needed.

--
 Scott Streeter                             Visit the Star Wars Archive at
 ss@wpi.wpi.edu                             wpi.wpi.edu       130.215.24.1
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jdrout@scott.skidmore.edu (JTD is lost)
Subject: Re: Lexus Commercials
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 05:48:53 GMT


Does anyone remember the Nissan ad (my favourite) when the narrator
quips "I was having the wierdest dream.  I was driving this car <black
300ZX Twin Turbo>, etc etc."  People are chasing him and he spools the
car up to what must be 140 (full boost in 4th, hits the redline, etc).
Absolute wildness.  Anyway, the commercial was only shown here for a
few days (in New Jersey, at least) and was removed from the air.
ANyone know why?

	Jonathan

jdrout@scott.skidmore.edu

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From:  (jmhodapp@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu)
Subject: Re: Lotus Elan in 'Basic Instinct'
Organization: master/peon
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 93 16:45:19 GMT

In article <SS.93Jan20101639@wpi.WPI.EDU>, ss@wpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter) writes:
> 
> >>>>> On 20 Jan 1993 08:45:42 -0500, grahamt@phantom.gatech.edu (Graham E. Thomas) said:
> 
> grahamt> grego@bit.UUCP (Greg Sanguinetti) writes:
> 
> >Not to mention the old James Bond movie (thunderball?) that featured
> >the amphibious Esprit. I think it was even sumbersible!
> 
> grahamt> Does anyone know these titles?
> 
> The Lotus that turns into a sub, is From Russia with Love. I think.
> 
No, no, the Lotus into a sub was a Roger Moore, The Spy Who Loved Me.
>From Russia, With Love is the Best Bond Ever (TM), w/ Sean Connery (c. 1964)
The Exploding car was in For Your Eyes Only.  That had the great scene with
the two thugs trying to break into the 007-mobile, and you see the little
warning sticker: Warning: Car Protected by such and such Alarm System, 
and then - BOOM!

The other classic was Blade Runner with the parking meters that were 20 dollars
for each 12 minuets (approximately) and carried a warning sticker to the
effect that they were protected by high voltage electricity, and that any
attempt to tamper with them may result in death.

Jon jmhodapp@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: rwc@ius4.ius.cs.cmu.edu (Randy Casciola)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Best Car ads (was RE: Lexus Commercials)
Date: 24 Jan 93 20:03:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.C1DJpJ.LEI.2
Organization: CMU Vision and Autonomous Systems


I've always liked most Honda commercials, but I think my favorite
car commercial of all time is the Camry commercial where the guy
is driving on some winding two lane stretch through some hills in what
looks like the American Southwest or someplace like that.  The sun
is beginning to set and as the engine is growling you can here a
telephone ringing.  It rings a few times while he is tossing his
car around these twisties.  Then, he pulls over to the side of the
road where there is this payphone in the middle of nowhere.  This
is the phone that was ringing.  He picks it up, and before he can
say one word, his wife quips "Taking the long way home again?"  He
says something like "I need to unwind" or "I'll be home soon" or
something like that, then gets back into the car and drives off into
the sunset.

The dabate may rage on whether or not American cars are world class,
but American advertising people certainly are first rate.  (I assume
that most commercials for foreign cars in America are done by American
firms.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

Randy
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: sflynn@krusty.ee.udel.edu (Steven J Flynn)
Subject: Re: INSURANCE RATES?
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:29:39 GMT

In article <C19Jtw.2Az@boi.hp.com> wesf@boi.hp.com (Wes Fujii) writes:
>Steven J Flynn (sflynn@krusty.ee.udel.edu) wrote:
>
>: Just to annoy everyone, I'm with State Farm. I have a 92 Stealth Twin
>: Turbo (300hp).  I'm 27, no tickets, AAA Defensive Driving Course, $1,000,000
>: umbrella policy and I pay $137/month = $1644 per year.  
>
>How much is your umbrella policy in DE?  I'm only paying about $94/yr (or
>is it 6 mo?  I'll have to check) here in Idaho.
>

The umbrella policy is an extra $10/mo = $120/year.  So my car insurance
is $127/mo.  The $127 is $100,000 - $100,000 - $300,000 with a $500
deductable.

Steve Flynn
University of Delaware
From: brieck@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Is Blue book on the Internet?
Date: 24 Jan 93 00:44:54 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

	I guess the heading says it all.
	Is the Blue Book available on the Internet?

Brian Rieck
Xref: sparky rec.autos:32974 rec.autos.tech:18468
From: damong@wpi.WPI.EDU (Damon F. Gentile)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Re: What compression value should I expect on a 87 Tercel?
Date: 28 Jan 1993 01:59:40 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu

In article <1993Jan27.215503.11251@ryn.mro4.dec.com> milind@vaxwrk.enet.dec.com () writes:
>Hi guys,
>I recently bought a used 1987 Toyota Tercel 3 dr.liftback. I had a compression
>test done on it before buying and got compression values around 170 in all 
>four cylinders. The range was 166-172. Is this OK?
>What is the significance of the compression value and what is the minimum,
>if any, that would be acceptable?
>Any info. would be appreciated,


170 what ?!?   
that seems a bit high for an 87 toyota hatchback to be in psi....
The compressions seem to be relatively closely grouped,so that all seems fine. 
The compression ration is the amount of mixed air and gas that gets compressed
in the piston's upstroke to fill the area in the head for combustion.
Kinda like a before and after... 9:1 means it takes up 9 times as much
size uncompressed as it flows into the cylinder as when it gets compressed.
What I'd call acceptable would be from like 8:1 to _maybe_ 11:1 (using 
top of the line gas... maybe a carb rejet too...)
--just ballpark figures-- 
  open to flames

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: Re: Worst Car Award
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:32:41 GMT

In article <1k1svlINNd4d@uwm.edu> qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Aamir Hafeez Qazi) writes:
>In article <C1FJxL.2rz@ssesco.com> nau@ssesco.com (William Nau) writes:
>>Ken Rothman <krothman.727987654@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu> writes:
>>> With all the advances in aerodynamics and ergonomics in design in the past ten
>>> years (mostly on the part of European and Japanese makers), this beast is an
>>         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>>Apparently the Ford Taurus had little influence on the shape of cars today.
>>In my opinion there is no car that has had a greater influence on the vast
>>improvements of aerodynamics than the Taurus.

>--Why doesn't anyone give credit to the '84 Audi 5000 S???  I thought this
>  was the car that started the wave of aerosedans!!!  The Taurus merely
>  copied the Audi's aerodynamic styling!

funny ... i was just thinking about this issue.

the earliest aero production cars i can think of are some pre-wwii citroens
and the chrysler airflow of similar vintage.  probably the first production
car to actually be subjected to a wind tunnel would have been the saab 92,
which appeared before 1950.  saab continued this trend, as a loner, for
quite some time; the Audi was to my mind the car that signaled the conversion
of this loner attitude on the part of Saab and Citroen into an actual trend.
Ford i would give credit for being the first US manufacturer to go aero,
but not with the taurus -- it was the aero T-bird that started it.

in any event, ford certainly doesn't deserve major credit for anything
except jumping on the bandwagon earlier than most others.

cheers,
  richard
-- 
richard welty        518-393-7228       welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
``Nothing good has ever been reported about the full rotation of
  a race car about either its pitch or roll axis''  -- Carroll Smith