HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tzs@stein.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Stores can't "detain" shoplifters
Date: 24 Jan 1993 11:13:25 GMT
Organization: University of Washington School of Law, Class of '95
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu

ewv@craycos.com (Eric Varsanyi) writes:
>Actually, my girlfriend works at a Target and when she started they had
>a security briefing. No one (not even the security guys at the store)
>can 'detain' anyone from leaving, or use any other type of physical
>force on them. If someone is observed shoplifting the manager (or

This may be Target policy, or may be a local law, but in general, your
claim is wrong.  Here's a typical statute:

	An act of shoplifting as defined herein, is hereby declared to
	to constitute a breach of peace and any owner of merchandise, his
	agent or employee, or any law-enforcement officer who has resonable
	ground to believe that a person has committed shoplifiting, may
	detain such person in a reasonable manner and for a reasonable length
	of time not to exceed thirty minutes, for the purpose of investigating
	whether or not such person has committed or attempted to commit
	shoplifting.  Such reasonable detention shall not constitute an
	arrest nor shall it render the owner of merchandise, his agent or
	employee, liable to the person detained.

(That was from Virginia.)

My guess is that it is Target policy.  Consider the following, from Prosser
and Keeton on Torts, talking about when someone can be detained [Note that
in this "defendant" is the store and "plaintiff" is the detained person]:

	The privilege is, however, a very restricted one, confined to
	what is reasonably necessary for its limited purpose, of enabling
	the defendant to do defendant to do what is possible on the spot
	to discover the facts.  There will be liability if the detention
	is for a length of time beyond that which is reasonably necessary
	for such a short investigation, or if the plaintiff is assaulted,
	insulted or bullied, or public accusation is made against him, or
	the priviledge is exercised in an unreasonable manner, and certainly
	if the defendant purports to make a definite arrest and take the
	plaintiff into legal custody, or to use the detention to coerce
	payment, or the signing of a confession.

My guess is that Target thought that the risk of their employees making
mistakes and subjecting Target to liability was too high.

--Tim Smith
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: staggers@cup.hp.com (Ken Staggers)
Subject: Re: Insurance question
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 01:40:12 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8.1]

: David Goldreich <dg10+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

: >Suppose someone takes out life insurance and "forgets" that he has
: >cancer or AIDS.  The insurance company can't be liable in such a case,
: >can it?

No, since the insurance policy usually has some checklist or some line that
asks about previous illnesses or problems.  If you lie and it can be proven
that you lied, they will sue your estate for the money if they have already
written the check.

--Ken
From: bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: CRYSTAL PEPSI & TAB CLEAR
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:10:48 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Logicon Technical Services, Inc.

In article <7399.25.uupcb@uttsbbs.uucp>, neil.black@uttsbbs.uucp (Neil Black)  writes:
> Earlier today I had the misfortune of tasting PepsiCo's new offering
> here on the West Coast (Bay Area to be exact), Pepsi Clear.  This stuff
> is AWFUL!

	Well, Crystal Pepsi (I guess Coke Marketing gets the award for better
name) seems to taste different to each person.

	My wife thinks it tastes like RC, and is ok.  I think it tastes like a
cross between the old Pepsi Light (that used lemon to distract you from the
aftertaste) and ginger ale.  Thumbs down from me.

Brett
"The opinions and views expressed here are strictly my own and do not 
necessarily reflect the official position of either the U.S. Air Force 
or its contractors."
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: sasjcs@canoe.unx.sas.com (Joan Stout)
Subject: Re: Deer Whistles
Originator: sasjcs@canoe.unx.sas.com
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:13:06 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.


In article <QfN31pG00WB3Mhtkhf@andrew.cmu.edu>, ez03+@andrew.cmu.edu (Eric C. Zinner) writes:
|> After totalling two cars in two years by hitting two deer I am ready to
|> try anything to keep my new car from suffering the same fate.  A friend
|> suggested that I spend $5 and buy "deer whistles", small plastic devices
|> that mount to the front of a car.  Supposedly, when the car is driven at
|> more than 35MPH the whistle emits a frequency of 16,000-20,000 Hertz, in
|> a deer's audible range, and that scares them away from the car.  Of
|> course, since it is relatively rare to hit deer (unless you're me), it
|> is difficult to test the effectiveness of such a device unless a large
|> sample of people is surveyed.  Does anyone know of such a study or have
|> any knowledge of the usefulness of this gizmo?
|>
|> With my luck I'll put them on backwards and deer will be attracted to my
|> car :-)

This isn't scientific, but I know a realtor who works mostly in a 
rural and semi-rural area. Collisions with deer happen quite frequently
in this area. The realtor has the whistles on her vehicle, and she says
she hasn't seen a deer near her car since she got them. She's convinced
that they work.

Joan
sasjcs@unx.sas.com
From: kdj@sw.stratus.com (Ken Jordan)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: FORD credit card .5% rebate
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:45:43 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: mrbt.sw.stratus.com

In article <lmb21rINNnko@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, mimit@benji.Eng.Sun.COM (Mimi Tam) writes:
> I have a FORD MC since '91 and I'm enjoying their cash rebate on
> purchases I made ever since, but I got a letter from FORD yesterday
> saying that they will upgrade my existing FORD MC to a Gold MC, still
> with no annual fee, but the cash rebate feature of my MC will discontinue
> after my next anniversary date.
> [TEXT DELETED]
> Does any FORD card member out there get the same notice of change?
> 
> ************************************************************************
> Mimi Tam				Mimi.Tam@Eng.Sun.COM
> Sun Microsystems Inc., MTV10-129
> Mountain View, CA 94043

I got the same notice yesterday from Ford M/C.  I too would rather get the
rebate then an upgrade with all kinds of "wonderful" features.

I suspect that they realized that it wasn't as profitable to pay people
to use their card. Like you, i will be using my card a lot less after my
anniversary date (and the rebate expires)...


-- 
Ken Jordan                   |Definition:    hill-bil-ly (hil-bil-ee)
kdj@sw.stratus.com           |n. 1. someone from a remote rural area in
Stratus Computer             |the US (e.g. Arkansas).  2. Short for 
Marlboro, MA, USA            |Hil-lary and Bil-ly.
--------- These are my opinions and not necessarily those of Stratus.------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Distribution: world
From: assist@ultramac.uucp (Harley Nolan)
Organization: Odyssey Ultraware, Inc
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:28:44 CDT
Subject: Re: Gevalia Kaffe Offer

Don't take second-hand information as gospel.  The Gevalia offer is still a
very nice one with the coffee-maker that they offer as incentive. 

Gevalia coffee is superior in every way, and it takes a coffee-maker of the
style that they offer, to achieve the best results.  It takes the experience
of "coffee-appreciation" to a new level.  I've been getting the coffee for
about a year now, and have never regretted it.

Harley Nolan
assist@oui.com
From: cerulean@access.digex.com (Bill Christens-Barry)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Insurance scam
Date: 24 Jan 1993 21:32:25 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com
Summary: WARNING: insurance scam
Keywords: insurance, scam, medical

I thought I should post a recent experience with an insurance company that
others can learn from.

I take care of my mother's finances and have for several years.  Last January,
I got a bill for a "major medical" insurance policy that she had through a
company called "Life of America Insurance Company", an outfit in Houston,
Texas.  The bill indicated a premium of $671.88 was due only several days
after I got it.  I didn't have time to check out in detail what this policy
covered, so, fearing that paying late would endanger my mother's future
medical care and coverage, I paid the bill.  This January (1993), I got
around to getting the details on the policy just before the annual bill
arrived in the mail.  I found out the policy was for hospitilization, and
had benefits of $25 per day maximum, and a lifetime toal benefits cap of
$7500!

Now, when this year's bill arrived, the premium had gone up to $1007.82 with
the same benefits.  The bill also contained a warning that this was the only
notice of payment due that I would get and that the due date was imminent.

So, you can guess, I blew them off.  This coverage, together with the method
of billing aimed at frightening me into paying, is what I call a SCAM.

Let's look at the coverage.  First, let me also mention that there was a
$250 annual deductible.  Thus, my mother would have to stay in the hospital
for 10 days before getting any benefit.  Then she would only get $25 per
day after that.  Finally, she would have to stay in the hospital for 300
more days before she would get the maximum possible benefit from this policy.

Big f***ing deal.  In this day and age of megabucks medical bills (and this
policy only covered hospitilization), do you think I'm going to even CARE
about 7500 stinking dollars on a 310 day hospitalization bill?  Has anyone
ever survived such a stay?  No, we are not talking about a stay in a nursing
home but a stay in a hospital.

Now, is there anyone who can tell me that premiums amounting currently to
about 13.4% of the maximum benefit is a good investment?  How about annual
premiums in past years that were around $400 five years ago up to $600 two
years ago, totalling probably $6000 (never mind inflation and lost
income) over the years?

If you think this is something you should get for your parents or loved
ones, please think again and get someone who can think straight looking
after their wellbeing.

Lastly, look into your parents Medicare coverage.  It may be that hosp-
italization isn't necessary.

One last thing (I promise) that I overlooked: this policy was bought
through CIGNA (formerly Connecticut General), so it's not safe to think
you are dealing with honest legitimate people just because a major
insurer steers you toward a policy.

Bill Christens-Barry
cerulean@digex.com

Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: derich@netcom.com (Scotty*Tissue)
Subject: Re: Pepsi Consumer Line - call up and get a free pepsi!
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 11:56:26 GMT

Here's the 800 nbr - 800 433 2652 ---

 Expect a long line.

- Scotty

-- 
Scott Allen Steinbrink
 
NetCom: Derich@netcom.com
America Online: Derichman
Bitnet: 11sstein%gallua.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu 
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: clak@calvin.edu (Kelly James Clark)
Subject: Nordic Trac vs. Fit One
Organization: Calvin College
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:42:00 GMT

I saw a Joe and Jennifer Montana infomercial extolling the virtues of a ski 
machine named Fit One.  Their statistics proved it was better than Nordic Trac.
And it is cheaper.  My wife is interested in a ski machine.  Any advice?

Anyone with either machine is invited to extoll the virtues of their own; but
that special someone who has tried both machines is especially invited to 
reply.

Thanks,
Kelly Clark
clak@calvin.edu
From: mimit@benji.Eng.Sun.COM (Mimi Tam)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: FORD credit card .5% rebate
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:51:39 GMT
Reply-To: mimit@benji.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: benji

In article 12382@watson.ibm.com, rubin@watson.ibm.com (Bill Rubin) writes:
>
>Alas, they changed their deal in August, 1992 to this new offer. Old 
>cardholders still get the "up to 1.5%" even if we do not carry a balance.
>
>If you shop at the places their refund checks are good at, check out the GE 
>Rewards MC.  They've just removed the annual fee.  1-800-GE-REWARD.  
>
>-- Bill rubin@watson.ibm.com

I have a FORD MC since '91 and I'm enjoying their cash rebate on
purchases I made ever since, but I got a letter from FORD yesterday
saying that they will upgrade my existing FORD MC to a Gold MC, still
with no annual fee, but the cash rebate feature of my MC will discontinue
after my next anniversary date.

I called their customer service and asked if I can choose not to accept the
upgrade and keep the cash rebate feature, cause I'd rather get some money
back each year than carry a gold card. They said I can deny the upgrade, but
the cash rebate will still be discontinued no matter what. I'm sure they
will see a lot less activities on my card after they discontinue the cash
rebate. It's time to take out my Discover Card again.

Does any FORD card member out there get the same notice of change?

************************************************************************
Mimi Tam				Mimi.Tam@Eng.Sun.COM
Sun Microsystems Inc., MTV10-129
Mountain View, CA 94043
From: bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Sneaky Cop Caught Me (was Re:Radar Detectors)
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:11:54 GMT
Distribution: usa,misc
Organization: Logicon Technical Services, Inc.

In article <1993Jan26.205421.17039@vax5.cit.cornell.edu>, gggj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
...
> me and the guy who was passing him over.  He never used his radar (my detector
> was silent), but clocked me at 72mph using his own speedometer.  Cost me $133
> there.  Now I know I was speeding, but he was speeding in the first place.  It
> just sucked.  I think it should be illegal in that situation ofr an unmarked,
> non-flashing police car to go 70mph passing people.
> Scott
> (PS - I just sold my radar detectors, and am now just setting my cruise control
> around 65mph and staying there)

	I would have argued entrapment.  But then again at 70 that Rustang
never would have caught up with me :).

	(How can you stand going that slow on that road???)

Brett
"The opinions and views expressed here are strictly my own and do not 
necessarily reflect the official position of either the U.S. Air Force 
or its contractors."
From: arun@tinton.ccur.com (Arun Kandappan)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Bread makers: recommendations?
Date: 28 Jan 93 21:19:44 GMT
Organization: Concurrent Computer Corporation, Tinton Falls, NJ

In <1k7aoqINN340@usenet.pa.dec.com> klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee) writes:

>> The approach I'm taking is to call Panasonic and Hitachi and others and 
>> get their sales literature on the bread machines.  It's so hard to shop 
>> and compare features when one store has one Panasonic model and another 
>> store has another Panasonic model.  I plan on picking the model I want 
>> from the literature and then go looking for a store that has it.
>
>Panasonic has alot of models, but I don't think there are significant
>differences between models, other than max. size of the loaf (1#, 1.5#)
>and whether or not there is a yeast dispenser.  The other model number
>differences are probably mostly for cosmetic things like colors.
>

	I do not know if the different numbering schemes mean anything. It
might be to dissuade people from comparing models at discount shops and high
end stores. For example, some of the VCRs that Panasonic sells have identical
features but are labelled differently at a discount store and Macy's. Has
anyone else noticed this ?
	Arun
-- 
arun
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: cory@akix.uucp (Cory Krell)
Subject: Bank of America has problems!
Organization: ALS Imaging
Distribution: CA
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 05:34:11 GMT
Keywords: Bank of America, lost deposts

I've got a problem here.  Bank of America lost my year-end bonus check,
which I deposited in a Versateller on 12/24/92.  On 12/28/92, the funds
were taken from my company's bank, but not put into my bank account.
Only through a lot of phone calls, and through faxing copies of the
cancelled check, did I get the funds in my bank account, on 1/16/93.

My problem is this:  I was without access to my funds for three weeks,
which caused bounced checks and all sorts of problems, like being able
to buy food, pay the rent, etc.  Bank of America has offered to write
letters to the people who got the bounced checks, but that's about it.
What sort of compensation, if any am I entitled to?

More global problem:  According to our company treasurer, Bank of America
also lost other employee bonus checks, causing them similar problems.
Additionally, someone in my company is active with the local school
district, and they have had their funds misplaced on numerous occasions.

If Bank of America does this enough times, they can essentially get the
use of customer's money for free.


Please email me - I will summarize if requested.

Thanks in advance,
     Cory
------------
cory@akix.uucp
  - or better yet -
{ncr-sd,ucsd}!serene!akix!cory
{nosc,ucsd,hplabs!hp-sdd}!crash!akix!cory
Date: Thursday, 21 Jan 1993 13:09:32 MST
From: <AOAFF@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Greedy Banks Re: Banks that offer debit cards???????
Distribution: usa
 <1993Jan21.050045.17633@netcom.com>

>So why are they still in business?  If they have such annoying charges
>and fees, why don't their customers just use some other bank?

Oh, if the world were so simple! Although credit card applications can
be big money makers for banks, consumer banking in general is not. I
think many banks wish you would take your checking elsewhere, unless
you are leaving thousands of dollars in your checking account. With
the advent of ATMs, lowering  banks' transaction costs and non-return
of checks, lowering postage costs, profit margins may have improved
in some markets. Allen
From: egreen@East.Sun.COM (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Making your own cheques...
Date: 28 Jan 1993 15:24:50 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, RTP, NC
Distribution: world
Reply-To: egreen@East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: laser.east.sun.com

In article 29628@nynexst.com, schwartz@nynexst.com (Steven Schwartz) writes:
>
>EXCEPTION:  One guy posted some time back that his credit union had an
>account agreement clause that required that he use only checks 
>ordered from the CU.  A nice moneymaker for them, and
>legally enforceable, but most banks have no such requirement.

Perhaps legally enforceable, but not practically.  Checks are paid by a
clearinghouse, and most CUs probably use the same services for
microfishing the canceled ones.  They *may* notice and complain or give
you grief, but I doubt if they could refuse to honor an independantly
printed check.  If you chose a style essentially the same as one the CU
offers, they would probably never know the difference.

BTW - the federal requirements are required only for checks that you
insist conform to the federal time limits for handling and paying.
When obtaining cash from a teller, most banks and CUs use their own
printed forms, with no magnetic characters or endorsement areas.
Similarly, you can legally write a check on any form you like... just
don't expect to be able to buy groceries with it.

---
Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker,
  Ed.Green@East.Sun.COM   |and I showed him a picture of you.  I said,
DoD #0111  (919)460-8302  |"Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"
 (The Grateful Dead) -->  |It seemed like the least I could do...
From: gomer+@pitt.edu (Richard J Coyle)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Insurance Comparison
Date: 21 Jan 93 22:30:08 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: gomer@unixd2.cis.pitt.edu

I'm looking into buying a life insurance policy for my wife, but I
need a bit of help.  I'm going to get her a term policy for now,
with the intention of converting to whole life in a few years.  I
have my reasons for doing this, which I won't go into here, but I'm
comparing two companies, mainly Northwestern Mutual and Connecticut
Mutual.  Northwestern is a bit more highly rated in the various
rating schemes, but when you look at the ratings it seems like it's
splitting hairs (AAA vs. AA+....that sort of thing).  It's also a 
bit more expensive than Connecticut Mutual.  Both are pretty similar
in the way they cover disability.  I guess what it comes down to is
Northwestern is a bit more expensive, and I'm wondering if I need to
pay the extra money for what may be unnecessary peace of mind.

Any of you know the insurance field better than me who want to comment
on this?  Everyone's paranoid these days about insurance companies going
under, and if it were 5 years ago I probably wouldn't even think that
hard about this.  I'm just not sure what to do.

Thanks in advance.

rick
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: greg@core.rose.hp.com (Greg Dolkas)
Subject: Re: ZIMA  was Re: PEPSI CLEAR & TAB CLEAR
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:40:15 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: HP - Systems Technology Division
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

> ... To me it tastes
> like a watered down fresca.

Alcoholic 7-up to me.  Or a bad Gin & Tonic.  I believe Sacramento is another
of the test markets.

Definitely wierd stuff.  

Greg.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: sasjcs@canoe.unx.sas.com (Joan Stout)
Subject: Re: Insurance question
Originator: sasjcs@canoe.unx.sas.com
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 20:41:50 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.


In article <1715@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM>, lsnow@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM (Linda Snow) writes:
|> In article <wfLKkAK00WBOI22X1A@andrew.cmu.edu> dg10+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Goldreich) writes:
|> >
|> >A friend of mine will be taking out auto insurance soon.  In the past
|> >he has gotten a couple of speeding tickets.  He is planning on
|> >"forgetting" about the tickets when the insurance company asks.
|> >(I don't believe he has any points or any other easy way for the
|> >insurance company to find out.)
|>
|> If the tickets occurred within the last 3 years then he *does* have points,
|> and the insurance co. will find out about them when they query the state
|> database (assuming the tickets are in his home state; and there may be some
|> data sharing between states, I don't know).  If they were more than 3
|> years ago the insurance co. probably isn't interested in them anyway.  They
|> may not even ask him about his driving record, since they can get the
|> info elsewhere.

If the tickets were more than three years ago, the insurance company
probably *IS* still interested in them. I worked for an independent
insurance agency for five years. (Two agents who placed insurance with
several different companies.) Legally, we could charge points only for
violations that happened three years ago or less. However, when we 
obtained a driving record from the DMV (standard practice for all
applications), it usually went back five or six years, sometimes more. 
If that driving record suggested a "high risk" driver, we insured them 
at a higher rate, whether or not they had any points. This was legal.

Joan

<------------------------------->
|  Joan Stout                   |
|  Technical Writer             |
|  sasjcs@unx.sas.com           |
|  SAS Institute, Inc.          |
|  Cary, NC 919 677-8000        |
<------------------------------->