From: 97994779@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu
Subject: Re: Collegiate Cycling - Qualifying for Nationals
Organization: SYSTEMS & COMPUTING
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 00:49:08 PST

In article <1993Jan26.231316.2146@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu>
webel@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes:
 
>In article <16B62E734.97994779@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu>, 97994779@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu writes:
>
>I hate to shatter any illusions, but of course larger schools have an
>advantage; and if you limit the riders, the advantage will simply be
>seen because they will have a larger pool of talented riders to draw
>from and will thus have a better chance to come up with the talent to
>win.  And schools with good weather will have an advantage because
 
I think that is somewhat true, but at least they will be limited to
five riders and not 15 on 5. It is definately fairer to limit team size.
We don't count B teams for qualification and we have no problem getting
riders. We look at the B team as developmental. I was on the B team and did
some races to get my feet wet. It was a good experience before making the A
team. I look at it as less pressure to perform and more pressure to learn!!
 
>they can ride more.  And schools in areas with mountains will have
>better climbers because they have hills to climb.  And schools outside
>of a city will have an advantage because they don't have the
>congestion  and cars to deal with...and there is nothing you can do to
>eliminate such "advantages"  Life isn't always fair.  Yes, you could
 
Yes, there are some things which we can't control, but there are some
things which we can and that is what we are dealing with here. We CAN
make a change here tat would improve the sport for all. There is nothing
we can do about the lay of teh land or climatic trends. (yet anyway)
 
>eliminate the lower categories, which would mean that new riders
>wouldn't get into the sport because they wouldn't be good enough.  I
>certainly know I wouldn't be in the sport at all if not for starting
>to race as a D my sophomore year.
>
I am not saying eliminate lower cats, but why place so much emphasis on them
when it is not neccessary. In football players often wait 3 of their five years
before they ever start a game. And hey we still have more football players
every year. Why not treat B,C,D cats as JV Cycling. A development program.
If you place participation as a prereq for A team racing they will show!
 
>>
>> Why do women's points count for less than men's? Its because some schools
>> can't field a full women's team. Why not treat them as equals and give them
>> their own title and races? Why treat them like second class racers who are
>> only worth 3/5. (remember the last time we treated people as less than a
>> whole?)
>>
>
>Women's points do not count less than men's, but their races score
>less points because of the fewer numbers of riders.  I, for one, would
>be happy to have parity between the sexes, especially in the Nationals
>scoring, but then we would have more men whining that it wasn't fair
>because they couldn't find women to compete on their squad and were
>disadvantaged because of it. (and let's be a little less ridiculous
>with our parenthetical remarks)
>
 
So, you are saying that when a man wins a race and gets 22 points and a
wins a race on the same course and gets 10 points, we are not placing
less value on the woman racer. It looks like we are to me! (Anytime
we place less value on the results achieved by person because they are
of a differenet sex, race, gender orientation than the majority group
we are just as guilty of bigotry, biase and stereotyping as any
slave owner.
 
>I had previously hoped that this thread might die, as it seems that
>about all the arguments have been threshed out, but it seems there is
>a pretty fundamental difference between the collegiate cycling
>experience at WSU and my previous time at Stanford.  I am a little
>unhappy  that it seems the stress on teamwork and comradery that I
>found to be the greatest hallmark of collegiate cycling isn't
>duplicated everywhere.  It is too bad.
 
I am sorry that you feel that way. I am sorry that the experience of
treating women as second rate cyclists is so popular in the NCCA!!
I love the sport of cycling and we at WSU do everything we can to
encourage all people of any group to compete. I am very sensitive
to this issues as President of the club and as an RA on three very
non-traditional floors.  I think that you have a flawed sense of
teamwork where you can value someone's contribution to the team as
less important than that of your own.
 
--
Patrick David Walters                     President WSU Cycling Club
97994779@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu                Race Dircetor WSU Stage Race
Undergrad Soc Minor in Fren and Bus         Send Mail for more info on
Washington State University   Pullman, WA   either !
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing