HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mvjh3@mvuas.att.com (James M Hajjar)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Info. on CZ 9mm pistol
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:38:58 GMT
Organization: AT&T


Does anyone out there have any information on CZ pistols.  I have an
opportunity to purchase a CZ model 99 9mm pistol.  I have heard some good
things about the Czechoslovakian firearms, but I'm concerned over the issue
of reliability and getting parts.  I looked in Gun Digest, but the model 99
was not listed.  Any comments will be greatle appreciated.

Thanks,

Jim Hajjar
AT&T
From: kennejs@a.cs.okstate.edu (KENNEDY JAMES SCOT)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Plastic Magazines (was Re: Ramline Sig Magazines...)
Date: 21 Nov 92 23:35:08 GMT
Organization: Oklahoma State University, Computer Science, Stillwater

#In article <1992Nov18.171411.17005@netcom.com>, pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune) writes:
## Does anyone have any experience, good or bad, with Ramline's 18-round (!) Sig
## P226 magazines?  I was considering ordering a couple, but would like to know
## what their reputation for reliability/durability is.  Thanks in advance...
## 
## Paul Yoshimune
#
Clayton E. Cramer writes:
#I used to think highly of Ramline's pistol magazines.  I won't buy them
#any more.  They don't seem to last long enough to trust my life on.

Every Ramline magazine I have ever seen has broken, usually the feed lips.
True Story:
From: edsr!hkelly@uunet.UU.NET (Kelly Shuldberg)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bullet hole size question
Date: 24 Nov 92 00:02:56 GMT
Organization: EDS Research


Thanks to all who reponded to my question.  There were many knowledgeable
shooters out there who had an opinion on the direction from which the shot
was fired.  Unfortunately, the opinions were split about 50/50, so I'm
still not positive.  However, after some time and some thought, I've
decided that the car was probably shot from the road.  I have two reasons
for coming to this conclusion: 1) shooting objects along a road is a common
occurence out here.  Hardly a road sign exists that isn't sprinkled with
bullet holes of various sizes.  Rural street lights are an endangered
species.  And woe unto the varmints that show their flea-bitten coats along
a rural road by night (or by day, for that matter).  I expect it was a
bunch of drunken good ol' boys out for some fun and games; 2) there has
been no indication of any further aggression, and there has been plenty of
opportunity.  Heavy snow a few days ago shows that no one but myself and my
dogs have been anywhere close to the property.  I believe that if it had
been a deliberate act of intimidation or whatever, that the perpetrators
would have come back.  They still may, but I doubt it.

Thanks again for the response.

h. kelly shuldberg
hkelly@edsr.eds.com
Albuquerque, NM
From: bressler@iftccu.boeing.com (Rick Bressler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 20 Nov 92 13:46:33 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group


/ iftccu:rec.guns / watt-alan@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt) /  3:07 pm  Nov 16, 1992 /

#Someone who has unlawfully entered you home armed with a firearm
#has etablished both hostile intent and lethal capabilities.  You can shoot
#him even if his back is turned to you.  For ethical reasons, and to
#avoid any possible legal difficulties, you may want to give this intruder
#the chance to retreat from confrontation, but you need not if doing so
#would place you or other innocent lives at greater risk.

Or stated another way, you don't have to wait for the perp's bullets to 
tear through your body before returning fire.  The object isn't to 
take them with you.  At least one well known authority has stated that 
if he finds em in house, armed, they are going down.  No warning and he
doesn't care if their back is turned.  This guy knows his stuff pretty well.

Rick.
From: chrisb@wang.com (Chris Bennet)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rifle in Defense ( was Re: Why are there no reliable semi-auto shotguns? )
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:32:13 GMT
Organization: Wang Labs, Lowell MA, USA

kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin) writes:

#In article <7624CA0F00001A29@UALR.EDU> hudson@ualr.edu writes:
##...
##BTW  They also have a choice in rifles of a Ruger Mini-14 or the Colt  AR15
##(which would you choose?).

#This is an interesting choice. I always wonder when would one pick his
#rifle for defense purpose, assuming he is a regular citizen and he has
#other choices like handguns and shotguns. ( Noting the plural nouns ;)

#When I took an AR15 shooting class from a cop, he told me the regular
#stuff: I wish you would never have to use it for self-defense purpose.....
#I'm wondering if you guys can give me a scenario in which I might want to
#use a rifle instead of other weapons. Thanks.

Maybe for people with _very_ big houses - those long indoor shots. :-)
  Chris
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: x-country skiing and target shooting
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:41:36 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.

In article <1992Nov22.215307.24483@wixer.cactus.org> wixer!wixer.cactus.org!will@cs.utexas.edu (Bill Staniewicz) writes:
#I don't recall the name for this sport but
#I remember that it involves x-country skiing and
#target shooting with a rifle. It was part of the
#winter olympics.
#
#My questions are:
#
#What is the name of this sport?

Biathlon.

#Outside of olympic competition are there any opportunities
#to compete?

Yes.

There is also summer biathlon that involves running reasonably
short distances between shooting stages.

#What type of rifle and ammo is used?

Usually a bolt-action .22 with a 5-round magazine and open or
target peep sight.

--
-------------------------------------------------------
| Some things are too important not to give away      |
| to everybody else and have none left for yourself.  |
-------------------------------------------------------
From: kkirksey@world.std.com (Ken B Kirksey)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glocks
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:09:26 GMT
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

# #To answer your question, I've only seen a few malfunctions with other
# #people's
# #Glocks.  They were as follows.
# #Front site fell off. (Model 17, early U.S. shipment)
# #Magazine lips bent or broke. (again early U.S.)
# #Jammed. (guy insisted on using lead reloads in violation of Mfgr's
# #warning)
# 
# This is unacceptable. My 1911A1 will feed Round nose lead reloads
# FLAWLESSLY and it has never had ANY feedramp or throat work of any kind.
# It also feeds semiwadcutters with only an occaisional jam (less than 1
# in 100).
# 
# Is it possible to get a feed job done on a Glock to let it run lead bullets??
# 
# If not, maybe the colt &/or clone IS a better gun?
 
 
FYI, I've fired over 1000 rounds of 125 grain lead realoads through my
Glock 17 and have never had a single misfeed or jam.  Just my $0.02 worth.
 
                              Ken
                              


+----------------------------+------------------------------------------------+
| Ken Kirksey                | "A man cannot be too careful in his choice     |
| kkirksey@world.std.com     |  of enemies."                                  |
| The World, Brookline, MA   |                - Oscar Wilde                   |
From: megatek!hollen@uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hang Fires
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:32:15 GMT
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

#>>>> On 19 Nov 92 15:05:25 GMT, roa@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Robert O. Anderson Jr.) said:

Robert>         Experienced a hang fire yesterday, well, my son did and it made
Robert> him a little nervous. 
Robert> Specifics:
Robert>   .243 WIN        Rem 700 BDL
Robert>   CCI Large Rifle Primers - Primer are 2 years old(two years old)

Well, I have recently experienced 2 hangfires in my Rem 700BDL .17
Rem.  I doubt if the 700 BDL being in common has anything to do with
it, however, I was using 2 or 3 year old CCI 450 primers (small rifle
magnum).  My powder was A2230 newly purchased from the store.  My
primer was dented sufficiently, seated sufficiently, if anything,
maybe I could have crushed it a little too much.  Primer did not go
off at all.  Inspection of it after de-capping showed no evidence of
combustion in the primer, it was just dented.

I am going to throw out all my old primers as of right now, unless I
hear different from you all out there, but it sure seems to reinforce
my belied that the primer was the problem.

dion

 
-- 
Dion Hollenbeck       UUCP: {uunet, ucsd, sun}!megatek!hollen
                      INTERNET:            hollen@megatek.com
Megatek Corporation  9645 Scranton Rd.  San Diego, Ca.  92121
From: vojak@icebucket.stortek.com (Bill Vojak)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Browning Hi-Powers
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:08:20 GMT
Organization: Storage Technology Corp.

I've been thinking about what to buy before Dec 31., and really wasn't
sure what to get.  Today I walked into a Country_General store which
just opened in town.  They had a fairly good selection including
Mini-14 Ranch rifles for $350 and Browning Hi-Powers for $400.

I handled a Browning Hi-Powers for the first time, and I was highly
impressed.  It has a 13 rnd mag, and I have small hands, yet it
fit my hand really well.  The finish on it was remarkable.  This
brings up a few questions?

A while back on the net, people were talking about NOT using +p
ammo in Hi-Powers.  There were conflicting opinions.  Was this
ever resolved?

At one time, (several years back), there was a question about Hi-Powers
feeding HP ammo.  For you high-Power owners out their, what has your
experience been?

What is the diff between the Mini-14 and the Mini-14 Ranch rifle? 
(Don't worry. We have a gun show coming up next week, and if I
 buy one, it will be a used gun.  I'm NOT giving Bill Ruger any of
 my $$$$).

				Thanks,

                                Bill Vojak
                                Bill_Vojak@stortek.com
                                NRA, ILA, CFC

------------------------------------------------------------
"Whenever someone tells you you won't need a gun, you better
 bring one along."  -  Robert Mitchum as PI Philip Marlowe
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: roa@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Robert O. Anderson Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Hang Fires
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:05:25 GMT



Jim,
        I think you're doing a terrific job....... please keep up the good
work.


Now I know ALL OF THIS has been hashed out before, BUT.... I guess the 
older you get, the more careful you are. And besides, it's been 22 years
since my last hang fire. So....

        Experienced a hang fire yesterday, well, my son did and it made
him a little nervous. 
Specifics:
  .243 WIN        Rem 700 BDL
  CCI Large Rifle Primers - Primer are 2 years old(two years old)
  IMR 4350 - 39.5 grs. - Powder is 22 years old(twenty-two years old)(FSO*)
  Hornady 87 gr. HPBT
  Lee Hand Loader
  Lee Hand Primer
  I do not clean the cases. I always inspect the base for over 
  pressure and give a good visual for cracks. I check case length..

It's the first hang fire I've had since using the hand primer and I don't
want to make my 13 yr. old son nervous about reloading.

I always thought hang fires were a result of the primer not being seated
deep enough.....
Questions: (after having lost all instructions)
        Lee hand primer - How far do you screw on the shell holder? 
        A. Until the primer 'bottoms out' in the primer pocket
        B. Until 'C' and more to flatten the bottom of the primer
        C. All the way

Just thought I'd get the net's wisdom on this one.

*FSO-Flame Suit On

Thanks for any help...
Bobby
From: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glocks
Date: 22 Nov 92 20:20:21 GMT
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH

As quoted from <57hG025l2b3S01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> by efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger):

# Is it possible to get a feed job done on a Glock to let it run lead bullets??

I don't know.  That's ALL I've EVER fired in my Glock 22, and it handles them
just fine, so long as it's reasonably clean.  I fired quite a few through a
friend's Glock 22 today, again with NO malfunctions.


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  

"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?" 
------------------------------------------------------------------  
"It's 11:59pm, do you know where your congressman's checkbook is?"
------------------------------------------------------------------ 
Christopher Morton
{uunet|backbone}!ncoast.org!cmort                      cmort@ncoast.org
From: rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com (Dana Rigg)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Defense/Combat Questions
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:33:13 GMT

-> #Personally, I would not use a flashlight in my own home.  First, it tells
-> #the bad guy where you are and destroys your peripheral vision.  Second, you
-> #already have the advantage of knowing the layout of your home.
-> 
-> 	I'm amazed nobody brought it up already -- turn on the room light.

I don't think this is a good idea since a light switch only turns on
the lights in the room that you are in, thus making a target of yourself.
Worse, it the bad guy is not in this room, you not only give yourself away
without spotting him, you wreck your night vision as well.

-> 	[MODERATOR:  A related suggestion, passed along at the risk of
-> 	 giving away too much of our own tactical plans ... we installed
-> 	 an, hmm, enhanced version of those X10 home control systems.

[ Cut ]

This is the best possible solution, the ability to selective turn on
any light anywhere in the house from your location.  Of course, it would
be even better if you could flood the entire house with nerve gas
while all the good guys are wearing their handy-dandy gas masks but
that might be a little expensive :-).

Dana Rigg
Chandler, AZ.
rigg@sdt-tempe.sps.mot.com
From: lklawson@acs.harding.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .357 in a 9mm
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:33:22 GMT
Organization: Harding University

In article <9211181912.AA10177@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca>, keith@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca (Keith de Solla) writes:
#
#This is probably a silly question but, is there any problem with
#reloading 9mm with .357 JSP bullets?  I tried a few rounds and
#though they are shorter & shaped differently from 9mm JSP bullets,
#they fed ok in my Hi-Power.  The Speer .357JSPs are somewhat cheaper
#(where I shop) than Speer 9mm JSPs & I would like to load a lot up
#to break in my Hi-Power.

I don't know about reloading, but a friend of mine has .357 mag revolver that
came with a special cylinder for 9mm.  He fired it with the 9mm cylinder and it
worked perfect.  I don't remember who made the revolver.  It was a single
action, internal pin revolver.  Probably S&W knowing my friend.

Kirk Lawson
LKLAWSON@ACS.HARDING.EDU

There is no problem that can not be solved with the proper aplication of photon
torpedoes.
From: bz269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James D. Del Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 7.62 Mauser vs 7.62 Tokarev & the CZ-52
Date: 24 Nov 92 00:03:16 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula) says:
#.30 Luger is in no way, shape, or form the same cartridge as the
#.30 Mauser or Tokerov. I'm pretty sure .30 Luger is a shorter round and 
#I believe it is loaded to lower pressures.


Ok, here's the run-down, ala Cart. of the World, Fank Barnes.
							    ca	
.30 Borchardt	.99" case, 1.36" OL,	85 gr 1280 /312	    1893
.30 Mauser	.99" case, 1.36" OL,	86 gr 1410 /375	    1893
7.62 Tokarev	.97" case, 1.35" OL,	87 gr 1390 /365	    1930
.30 Luger	.75" case, 1.15" OL,	93 gr 1220 /307	    1900

The Luger is just a 9mm Luger necked down to take .32 ACP bullets.
(Or, the 9mm is just a .30 necked up to take .355" bullets, as you prefer.)

The .30s are aka 7.65mm, and all take a .308" bullet.  7.62mm is 
the same bore size.   The CZ52 just uses a +p version of the 
Tok round.  Same dimensions. 

The Mauser was the highest vel factory pistol cartridge in town
until the .357, according to the book.  (good book, btw).
JD
From: HBX@PSUVM.PSU.EDU (Terry Harrison 336 Beam BAB 3-3357)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Program to compute bullet trajectory?
Date: 24 Nov 92 01:50:49 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

i am a casual reader of REC.GUNS.  my interest is primarily in the use of
hunting rifles.  i am going on a trip where i will be shooting at longer
ranges than i am used to (200-350 yards versus my usual 50-100).  i am looking
for a DOS-based commerical or public domain program to compute ballistic
statistics for my rifle sighted in at various distances.  if there is
sufficient interest, i will post a summary.   thanks.
_____________________________
Terry Harrison
Management Science Department
Penn State University
INTERNET: hbx at psuvm.psu.edu

[MODERATOR:  Don't forget to check out the rec.guns archives, at
flubber.cs.umd.edu on your internet dial ....]
From: zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: target/hunting rifle
Date: 22 Nov 92 20:20:51 GMT
Organization: The Phallogocentric Cabal

In article <1elerrINNisk@quasar.genrad.com> 
lrf@quasar.genrad.com (Larry R. Forest) writes:

#I am looking for a winter project of sporterizing a military rifle. This
#rifle may be used for an ELK hunt in the future in the northwest.
#I assume that a swedish 6.5mm would be to light for this but would be better
#for informal target practice.

In one word, don't.  There is no way to make a sporter out of a
military rifle without throwing out everything but the action.  The
rifle was made this way for a number of reasons, most of which are
applicable to a civilian situation.  Moreover, if you do the job
halfway, you will end up with an ugly mongrel, while if you do it
professionally, you will have a weapon worth about 1/3 of your parts
cost (check out the asking prices of custom rifles in the Gun List).
Just get a rifle you are happy with, add a B-Square scope mount, and
avoid any cutting of wood or metal; in the long run, you will be
better off.

In my opinion, 6.5 is just fine for elk.

#I can get whatever I want for cost thanks to my handy brother-in-laws ffl.
#Rifles considered:  Lee Enfield #4 about $70.

Good battle rifle, so-so for hunting.

#		    Carcanos 6.5mm about $30. (lousy action i was told)

Avoid.

#		    Chilean    -----|
#		    Brazilian       |-- MAUSERS  98 action only
#		    Argentinean-----|

Best bet.  Get a DWM-made carbine, and limit yourself to sanding and
refinishing the wood, if you must.  Some of those have walnut stocks,
which can be very satisfying.  Use a long eye-relief pistol scope.
Try to get an unissued rifle with the original muzzle cap.  Keep it
stock, and enjoy.

#		    Springfield 1903

Action slightly inferior to the Mauser because of needless complexity,
but better peep sights and safety.  Some are unsafe to shoot; check
the SN, and ask an expert.

#
#What can I get in 7mm Mag. for hunting purposes?

Nothing.  Except for very expensive sniper rifles, magnums are mostly
civilian cartridges.  With proper loads, the standard Mauser
cartridges are more than adequate for any American animal.

Also consider an Arisaka, -- these are very tough and accurate.

I have a Venezuelan FN Mauser carbine in 7x57, which I like very much.
However, my personal favorite is a semi-automatic FN-49 in 30-06.

#I do reload so ammo would be no problem.
#
#
#Thanks Larry

cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
"Le cul des femmes est monotone comme l'esprit des hommes."
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Accidental Discharges
Date: 21 Nov 92 13:19:11 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <9211171851.AA04010@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov> weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (daniel weed 283-4162) writes:
#It is said there are two kinds of people:  those who have had ADs, and those
#who will.  I would like to add a third category - those who will not.

Very good points about AD vs. ND!

#I invite anyone to elaborate and pass on their "laws" for safe gun
#handling.

There's a basic firearms safety video starring Jeff Cooper that is very
good about making the essential points (besides the two rules you cited
there was one more, to the effect "keep your finger off the trigger
until you're ready to fire").  It also showed other gun handling hints,
cleaning, etc. and makes an excellent introduction for the beginner.
Sorry I don't remember the exact title but I found it some time ago in
the instructional section of a local Blockbusters video rental store.

#... anyone on the net care to comment on the Davis' safety?  

Generally carrying an unholstered gun in a purse is stupid (if the
trigger doesn't get pulled, at least the safety could be flipped), but
I've seen it done.  (Usually the gun is loose in an inside pocket.)

#By the way, carrying a concealed firearm is illegal in TX, so I'm sure she 
#was spanked real hard after getting out of the hospital.

Assuming she didn't have a permit, which I am told are as hard to get
in Texas as they are in Maryland.  Some 10 years ago it was fairly
common for young single women to carry a small gun in their purse in
Texas, regardless of any carry laws.  I guess they figured that nobody
would catch them since generally police didn't search purses without
darn good probable cause.  An airline gate security officer recently
told me that they catch quite a few guns coming through the scanners
in purses whose owners had forgotten they had them (or so they say).
I think that sort of casual attitude contributes to what were labeled
NDs; responsible gun owners keep track of their guns, always.

I don't know what percentage of Texas women go around armed today, but
given the increasing level of violent crime (judging by TV news there)
it wouldn't surprise me if it were a large fraction.

Last Christmas season the fad among Houston criminals was to follow
elderly well-to-do citizens home from shopping and mug them in their
own driveways.  I don't know yet what this year's fad is but it could
be carjacking.  The criminals grow more audacious every day as the
citizenry become progressively disarmed by the lawmakers.  To me the
most shocking aspect of Hennard's Killeen Luby's massacre was the
absence of any ability of a restaurant full of central Texans to
resist -- as recently as a decade ago I suspect the situation would
have been quite different.
From: jeff@wisdom.bubble.org
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: identify this brass
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:31:37 GMT
Organization: Wisdom's Pony Express


I was given a whole bunch of old military brass, all of which is .30-06
however there is one peticulary case type that I can't reload, the 
head stamp is as follows

on the top is "M2",across the middle is "RD" and the date is "59"

ok, I know that M2 is the caliber, RD is the manufacturer(I don't know
who RD is) and "59" is the year the brass was made.

what is presenting the problem is when I attempted to decap the case
I found I was unable, ok, I figured maybe its a berdan primer, well 
after taking a hacksaw to one of the cases a suprise was in store, 
the single flash hole was offset from the center and was smaller than
the ones found in boxer primed cases (I didn't measure, but it was a very
obvious difference)

any ideas on this case??

thanks...

			Jeff
-- 

.Sig??? you want a stinkin' .Sig???
Jeff Ross					jeff@dss.com
201-299-1819 (home)				jeff@wisdom.bubble.org