HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cgraham@convex.com (Chip Graham)
Subject: ex-gays and the church
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Distribution: USA
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1993 13:13:23 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Recently there was a group called Exodus International (or soemthing like that)
which was a 'ministry' to help gays go straight thru some twist of Christian
teaching.  I remember seeing the founder on TV not too long ago saying that
although he began this ministry, was gay, went straight, married, the whole
schmeel, he could not quit being gay and finally left the 'ministry'. The 
whole thing was said to be a sham. Now, I know there are several groups out 
there who do this sort of thing, but this one interests me the most. I need
to know who this person was that was converted and then fell back into 
gaydom... 

Sorry if this seems rambling, but I have a need to know, because someone is 
trying to push this Exodus crap down my throat, and I recall the big deal
about them going on TV and saying it was all crap.

Now, if anyone remembers this or can give me more info please e-mail me.
-- 
Chip Graham      cgraham@convex.com         +1 214 497 4642
Convex Computer Corporation 
3000 Waterview Parkway     
Box 833851, Richardson,Tx,75083
From: mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Another Epithet Discovered (was Re: Do hard times cause hate?)
Summary: usage
Date: 11 Jan 93 14:23:06 GMT
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC

In article <1993Jan11.025626.11155@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>What's the technical name for those things placed on tombstones?

epitaph.

>Recently bearded Jess says:
>>The negatively associated usage seems to be gaining in popularity,
>>and according to the AHD's Usage panel, is not incorrect.
>
>Is this the AHD's Usage panel's way of giving an example of the word
>"futility"? At least they claim that a common usage is "not incorrect".

The word can mean simply "descriptive adjective or phrase" -- however,
it is most commonly employed for such a description that has become
attached more or less permanently and conventionally to its noun.
That is the sense of the word when a classicist talks about the Homeric
epithets (with the additional level, in that case, of a theory about
*why* the epithets are attached as they are, namely as a structuring
device for oral hexameters.)

The negative connotation in modern use would seem to me to develop out
of this context -- what after all would be the sort of description that
attaches "conventionally" or "permanently" to a memeber of a group? is
that not automatically a stereotype, at least if one is not making up
a new and unique description of an individual, as in "stately, plump
Buck Mulligan"?
-- 
Michael L. Siemon	"We honour founders of these starving cities
mls@panix.com		 Whose honour is the image of our sorrow ...
			 They built by rivers and at night the water
			 Running past the windows comforted their sorrow."
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: crabs (was Re: Changing standards of female beauty)
Date: 10 Jan 93 01:13:44 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <1993Jan9.092552.25147@thinkage.on.ca>,
kgdykes@thinkage.on.ca (Ken Dykes) writes:
> a few years ago, after *several* shots with Kwellada (canada's name
> for it) didnt work on beard/hair infestation.

For our UK readers:

Quellada ("gamma benzene hexachloride BP 1%
in a pleasant perfumed lotion base")
is indicated "for the destruction and elimination of
scabies, body lice, and their eggs".
I've used it successfully on crabs.

Derbac ("Malathion 0.5% w/w Also contains Parabens
and other ingredients in am aqueous base")
"eradicates head lice crab lice and the scabies mite".
I haven't tried it.

Ascabiol ("Benzyl Benzoate BP 25% w/v")
"is an efficient acaricide and is used in the treatment of scabies.
It is also indicated in the treatment of pediculosis."
I've used it, apparently successfully,
against what was unconfirmedly scabies.

-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"*crapulence* n. sickness caused by excessive drinking"
-- Chambers English Dictionary (1988)
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Date: 6 Jan 93 19:43:52 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <C0G2K1.IqF@hpuerca.atl.hp.com>, mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike
Reaser) wrote:

> >Why, there isn't
>                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >a day that goes by I am not made dizzy by the swirling 
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >maelstrom of activity.

> Dizzy is as dizzy does?   :-)

And I'm not even blond...

*X*
(though I was, at one point a brilliant strawberry-gold)
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Changing standards of female beauty
Date: 6 Jan 93 17:57:15 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1993Jan6.015730.14655@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu
(Jess Anderson) wrote:

> If any part of that story is true, I'll enjoy (considerably)
> the thought of having irrefutable proof that you're *even*
> stupider than you seemed heretofore.

Perhaps one of the language meisters could clarify:  is "stupider"
correct; or should Jezeboo have, in fact, penned:  "more stupid?"
And, what is a word that - when used - serves as an example of
its meaning?

*X*
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Person in flux)
Subject: Re: race based fetishes
Reply-To: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 14:49:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.111235.7149@netcom.com>, cjlee@netcom.com (Caroline Jean 
Lee) writes:
>
>The other possibility is that I will be seen as some kind of cultural
>resource for people who are "really into" Asian cultures and the
>"exoticism" of it, and that they will try to use me to immerse
>themselves in it because they think it's cool.  More generally, there
>are white people who are into people of color and the cultures of
>people of color, and try to use people of color to "colorize" their
>lives--put a little or a lot of ethnic "spice" in their lives.  I
>think this is just as objectifying.

    This particular point interests me greatly because I have
    seen it happen with deaf people and hearing people who wish
    to learn sign language.  There's an unspoken (used to be
    explicit, but now it's not P.C.) "rule" that the best way to
    learn sign language is to take a deaf lover.  Whether or not
    this is true ignores the very real possibility that the love
    relationship is somewhat exploitative.  And the possibility
    is compounded by the social imbalance between the two
    partners; rightly or wrongly, deaf people aren't always (to
    put it mildly) viewed as being capable talented individuals,
    and hearing people involved with deaf lovers often are viewed
    as having savior complexes.  

    The most successful "mixed" relationships I've seen have
    followed their own paths and ignored social conventions.

    Katie
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jefu@nmt.edu (Jeff Putnam)
Subject: Re: Enjoying Smallpox
Organization: The Museum of Differential Geometry
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 01:20:02 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.052451.1833@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca> aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca writes:
>> >I'm trying to remember the last person I knew who enjoyed
>> >smallpox.
 
>> ...  Hasn't
>> it been more than 30 years since the last reported case?

I thought the last case was in Ethiopia around 1970, but could be
wrong.

>But no, nobody has had smallpox in a long time.

Well, it wasnt really smallpox, but while in Africa (Peace Corps) I had
a vaccination against smallpox from some Russian vaccine and was sick
for about 4 days.  My arm got all swollen and the vaccination site got
marvelously icky.  The vaccine was spozed to be extra powerful. 

-- 
jefu <=> Jeff Putnam - New Mexico Tech <=> jefu@nmt.edu 
"Daffodils go Ping! and Oink! // They Really are alarming 
I'm scared of big geraniums // And I'm sure that Lilac's harming"
(Dr. Bertram X. Fegg)
From: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Looking for Text of Colorado Ammendment 2
Date: 8 Jan 1993 19:29:40 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Reply-To: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: ansible.pubs.stratus.com

Terrance Heath writes
>	If anyone out there has the text to Colorado's Ammendment 2,
>please send it to me by email.  I have to do some writing on it, and
>need the text of the ammendment to clear up some specific points.

I think Evelyn Leeper just posted it over in rec.arts.books this week
(in the thread about Homophobia).  She generally checks out this
news group, but in case she's really busy, you might want
to go over and look for it.

*  In Germany they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak *
*  because I wasn't a Communist.  Then they came for the Jews, and I *
*  didn't speak because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade *
* unionists, and I didn't speak because I wasn't a trade unionist... *
*Then they came for me--and by that time no one was left to speak up.*
*  Rev. Martin Niemoeller     [Why to March on Washington in April]  *
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tcarlin@athena.mit.edu (Thomas B Carlin)
Subject: Bar Etiquette: Further digression
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:01:35 GMT

I don't have a clue how it got to this:

>>Wait! you forgot about 
>>the biscuits and gravy!  I've already given Arne the recipe for 
>>gravy:  add flour, salt, and pepper to a pan of hot bacon
>>grease; stir until it's a glue-like substance; add whole milk;
>>heat (to disolve the congealed grease), and Voila! ...gravy.

This March, on a truly foolish drive from Boston to Sarasota, I stopped
in one of these "Shoney's", which I had never heard of until I had
gotten south of DC.  There is a reason these don't exist north of DC.

I had order something called a "country fried steak", which the menu
listed as having "gravy" on it.  When it came, I had this breaded fried
steak covered in what could only be wallpaper paste.  When I asked the
waitress what the white stuff was, she - looking at me blankly like I
had just asked her what direction was up - said "that's the gravy". 
Well, I dipped my finger in it to taste it, and replied "this is not
gravy - gravy is brown, this is a rue".  Anyhow, she didn't have a clue
what a rue was, and I had her take it back to scrape the white stuff
off, asking for steak sauce or something.

They were really quite offended by all this.

How do these people live on this stuff?

Tom
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu (Tracey McCartney)
Subject: Re: Muffin on Parade
Organization: Home of the @&#^%$* Crimson Tide
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 23:51:36 GMT

In article <C0JzuA.GKt@unix.amherst.edu>
twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
 
>In article <16B49BC51.TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu> TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu (Tracey McCartney) writes:
>
>>Peni don't have much appeal to me;
>>large breasts have a certain appeal in some contexts. But I'm not
>>much of a size queen under any circumstances... : )
>
>Wouldn't you be a size king, anyway?
>
>--
>____ Tim Pierce                /
 
Hmmmmmmmm, I guess you're right. OHMIGAWD I'M SO *CONFUSED*! : )
 
Tracey
From: mickw@autodesk.com (Mick Washbrook)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Date: 7 Jan 93 21:23:44 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.223042.26742@gordian.com>, mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
> 
>   Not to mention Dame Edna. Did anybody else see that special last
> Saturday? We just happened to be watching the tube before cocktails
> were to commence (I even went to the Eagle, it felt so butch yet 
> boring) and all I have to say is WHO IS THAT DRAG QUEEN? I've never
> even heard of her before, but I have to say that I liked the little
> ditty she did with Robin Leach. And Caeser Romero as the butler,
> how special.

Dame Edna is played by Barrie Humphries, an Australian comic. He used
to appear quite a lot on British TV. I remember seeing him play a drunken
Aussie journalist, with about half a gallon of slobber hanging from
his mouth. Guess he left for greener pastures.



--
Death to all fanatics!!

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
From: black@lester.sybase.com (Chris Black)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Changing standards of female beauty (Is: the empowerment of women)
Date: 6 Jan 93 03:05:08 GMT

In article <1i90auINNjpa@hp-col.col.hp.com>, reykja@col.hp.com (Reykja Sigurdsson) writes:

|> I agree. But please don't judge women who are unwilling to throw 
|> the stuff in the trash (where it belongs) and go 'bare-faced'. 
|> There is years and years of acculturation and many women really 
|> believe it enhances their beauty. 

I would go further than this.  It does enhance or at least affect people's 
reactions to them.  Many women work in jobs where they have no choice
but to wear make-up, impractical shoes, impractical clothes, etc.  Doing
anything else would get them a lecture on "proper professional
appearance".

-- Chris
black@sybase.com
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Date: 13 Jan 93 01:52:01 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <1993Jan11.211716.13256@psych.toronto.edu>,
jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis) writes:
[Henry and Brian elided]
> >->In article <C0MB65.Ln1@queernet.org>
> >->rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
> >->>It is the observation of queerdom's most sacred holiday, the anniversary
> >->>of the Stonewall riots.
> ...
> The anniversary of Stonewall has very little importance in my life.
> It is, to me, an American event, something that happened in a foreign
> country.

My initial reaction on hearing that the Pride march in London
would happen on a different date this year,
to avoid clashing with Europride in Berlin,
was one of disappointment: which was the *real* Pride day?

Now, however, I'm thinking of Pride as something which has grown
and is too big to be crammed into one day.
I get the opportunity to celebrate from London to Berlin and back.

-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"*Nancy-pretty* n. the plant _Saxifraga umbrosa_, London Pride"
-- Chambers English Dictionary (1988)
From: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Bar etiquette
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 05:15:04 GMT
Reply-To: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca

In article <1ila2bINNasp@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)  
writes:
> In article <1993Jan3.062520.3441@reed.edu> 
> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
> 
> > But I've never seen a person with a book
> > in a bar, and aren't most bars too dark anyway?
> 
> I rarely go anywhere without bringing along something 
> to read....  Sure it looks peculiar, and
> it does invite comment, but I haven't yet had someone
> who continued the conversation after hearing my answer
> to the question "Hey, what are you reading?"  

I read regularly in bars, but it's usually during the day in an outdoors  
area, and it's usually a gay newspaper.

Actually, I would like very much to *work* in a bar, specifically,  
programming on a Powerbook in the back courtyard of the Lone Star during  
those long, quiet San Francisco afternoons. It strikes me as an absolutely  
pleasant place to earn a living.

Unfortunately, I just don't think that it would go over very well with the  
regulars... computers are still too much an indication of economic  
privilege to make their use tasteful in all situations.

Why aren't there any gay-nerd-bear bars, anyway? Ones where bear  
programmers network their computers through glory holes and exchange  
filthy email? Now, there's a market!

-Anthony

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris)
Subject: Re: Out to parents in relationships (was Re: long-term relationships..
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:03:26 GMT

>kmeyer@aero.org (Kraig R. Meyer) writes:
>>
>>I have noticed one peculiar characteristic about every couple that
>>I know who have had successful long term relationships.  In every
>>instance, both partners have been out to their parents.
>>
>>Have others seen this same thing?  If so, why do you think it is?
>>It seems as though there could be a lot of different factors.  There
>>could be an added element of support, or higher level of maturity
>>or self-esteem.

I can see how it might help, but so far my mother is the only one of our
parents "in the know", and she's been very negative.

dyarman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Donald L Yarman) writes:
>It was really very hard beginning my
>relationship with Mike without telling my mom.  The most wonderful
>thing ever to have happened to me, and I was afraid to share it
>with her.  Mom and I danced around for nearly two years, me wondering
>if this would be the weekend I'd tell her, her wondering if this
>would be the weekend she'd ask.
>
>Everything's wonderful now.  The whole family bends over backwards
>to make sure they treat my relationship the same way they treat
>my sister's marriage.

I'm sooo jealous!  I spent the Thanksgiving holiday with my "in-laws"
and they were wonderful.  They were even calling my their "other son"
before we left.  The sad part is, because of my disappointing experience
with my mother, it may be years before we'll feel confident enough to be
open with the other parents.

jeff
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 04:18:59 GMT

In article <1993Jan13.004420.10904@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
> however, the attempts here to cast Stonewall as a religious
>event with ecclesiastical sanctions towards non-believers strikes me
>as a bit too enthusiastic.

My interest in turning Stonewall into a religious event
is negligible, but that business about ecclesiastical
sanctions sounds fun.  What do we do - read carnivorous
lesbians out of the meeting?  Sit shivah for gay men
with lousy taste in clothes?  Tell me more.
--
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: teddybur@netcom.com (John Sanger)
Subject: Re: Why not cure homosexuality?
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 13:53:30 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.015458.956@gagme.chi.il.us> eak@gagme.chi.il.us (The.Avenger) writes:
>
>In article <92364.223718MEH124@psuvm.psu.edu> MEH124@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>:Also, just for your info, there are even 12 step groups (like AA) that are
>:called Homosexuals Anonymous that are set up world-wide to help people 
>:overcome their unwanted homosexual feelings.
> 
>The therapies that utilize screaming seem to work a whole lot 
>better.  See _The_Primal_Scream:_The_Cure_for_Neurosis_ by Art 
>Janov.  Janov has a lot to say about homosexuality.
> 
>Dr. Joseph Nicolosi, who was featured on 20/20 last year, also 
>uses a form of scream therapy.  He has a book out called, I think, 
>_Reparitive_Therapy_ with something in the sub title about 
>curing _the_Male_Homosexual_.
> 
>The 12-step therapies seem to help people fight their urges 
>toward homosexuality while the scream therapies seem to make 
>those urges go away for ever.
> 
>-Ed

Road apples!

There has never been anyone who is a homosexual that has ever been cured.

You cannot cure something that is not a malfunction.



Ciao!
	John S. :^)
	teddybur@netcom.com
__

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Maria Montez vs Burl Ives, or Lighten Up a Little, Folks
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 04:00:06 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.164741.28912@Csli.Stanford.EDU>
zwicky@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Arnold Zwicky) writes:

>AUTOLOGICAL, not ONTOLOGICAL.  

>arnold (about to be off-line until monday the 11th)

Well damn, how in hell did you manage to be offline
the other 222 times I asked? :-)

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Bar Etiquette: Further digression
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 20:09:10 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.180135.29601@athena.mit.edu>
tcarlin@athena.mit.edu (Thomas B Carlin) writes:

>"...gravy is brown, this is a rue".

>They were really quite offended by all this.

Perhaps they rued the rude spelling of roux.

>How do these people live on this stuff?

Poorly and not long.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Date: 12 Jan 93 01:50:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan12.015014.24336
Organization: insert anything here

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>After reading BBC's last article addressed to Brian Jarvis, I'm
>convinced he can argue any point, just for the sheer pleasure of it,
>as long as it gets his mind off his thesis.  Having more groff problems,
>Bob?

>This is a corollary to Jeff Dauber's rule about having bad days.

	I'm sorry to hear that you're having a bad week, and that
my postings are causing you to vent steam on the net.  I'm sure
that after what ever is bugging you is over you'll be able to
critique my *postings* instead of *me*.  IT's OK - everyone is
entitled to have a bad week now and then...

	Me, I'm having a great week, I just need to make an important
decision or two real soon.

BBC
From: ST402341@brownvm.brown.edu (Gary Byma)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: race based fetishes
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 00:37:09 EST
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

In article <1993Jan10.034929.20876@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess
Anderson) said:
>
>In article <thaaang.726635080@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu
>(John Dorrance), trying hard to have serious discussion
>about important matters, writes:
>
>>Is that any worse than liking blondes with big boobs?
>
>Well, Jojo *is* very popular, for good reasons.
>
Stop! I'm getting moist, I'm feeling a little dirty, and I'm hungry now, too.

Gary Byma
From: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Arne Adolphson, Moron At Large
Date: 8 Jan 93 16:57:01 GMT
Reply-To: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Organization: sgi
NNTP-Posting-Host: tattoo.mti.sgi.com

In article <1993Jan8.142957.14372@spdcc.com>, rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) 
|> >John, who somehow senses George would rather die than do drag
|> 
|> 	Hon, he IS doing drag!  Think about it.

To quote RuPaul, "You were born naked, everything else is DRAG"


FWA