HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George)
Subject: Re: Privatisation snippets
Organization: OSF RI Grenoble
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 11:53:24 GMT


In article <JIM.92Oct12172829@hunter.cs.strath.ac.uk> jim@cs.strath.ac.uk (Jim Reid) writes:
>:In article <1bbnqaINN96v@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> martin.baines@uk.sun.com >(Martin Baines - Sun UK - SE Manager Cambridge) writes:
>:   I own shares in BP and expect them to
>:   get a good price when they sell off the sunsidiary.
>
>:The difference is that the Government has been *deliberately* selling
>:off shares in the nationalised industries at artificially LOW prices.

Maybe you could produce some evidence to support this claim ?  If you look
at all the privatisation issues you don't see anything that out of line with
rights issues and share offerings for private companies.  The big difference
being the scale of the share issues which makes finding a correct price without
market guidance very difficult.

The first big privatisation, Britoil, was a complete flop as it was overpriced.
The Govt. ended up loosing a lot of money to the underwriters and were soundly
criticised for being greedy and setting the price too high!  B.T. was
subsequently underpriced which created a lot of expectation for subsequent
issues, but after the dust settled, and especially post 1987 many of the shares
were not trading at much of a premium.  I'm afraid that you've just got to
accept that share prices can go up as well as down.

Should Bill Gates or Laura Ashley or Anita Roddick also be criticised for
selling shares which subsequently showed an increase in value ?  Or how about
Prudent old TSB ?  who bribed account holders with shares, underpriced their
offering (by Jim Reid's expert financial criteria), and have managed to blow
about a Billion quid a year on nothing since.

Jim, if your so good at telling which shares are underpriced, how come your
not a millionaire yet ?


In article <1992Oct13.090412.27631@bristol.ac.uk>, smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:

|> It's been suggested that if the rules for local councillors applied to
|> the Government, Major and Lawson would have been 'surcharged'

It could also be suggested that they were simply following the policy that the
government recently won an election on.  That is maintaining the pounds value
within the ERM, a policy supported by Mr Smith and Mr Ashdown.

This of course to a lot more potential people to surcharge, if they could be
shown to be acting 'unconsitutionally'.  Unfortunately we havn't got one of
those.

|> How long does it take to pay back a few billion on a Cabinet salary?

Hang on, if they are "likely to be barred from public office" they won't even
have a cabinet salary.  They'll have to pay it back from all the directoryships
they'll hold.  Maybe John Major will team up with Swan Vesta... "box of matches
for an old soldier, guv".

David.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George)
Subject: Re: Name of the Royal family ?
Organization: OSF RI Grenoble
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:22:33 GMT

In article <7OCT199211325746@sscvx1.ssc.gov>, godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY) writes:

|> Edward Windsor, the only member of the royal family
|> who has a real job working for the Really Useful Theatre Company 

I heard he'd been fired for having no talent, a commodity in very
short supply at the RUTC.

David.
From: smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Privatisation snippets
Date: 13 Oct 92 09:04:12 GMT
Reply-To: P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Organization: University of Bristol

In article <JIM.92Oct12172829@hunter.cs.strath.ac.uk> jim@cs.strath.ac.uk (Jim Reid) writes:
>I wonder how our government ministers would act if they were subject
>to the same strictures which apply to company directors? Or
>councillors in local government for that matter...

It's been suggested that if the rules for local councillors applied to
the Government, Major and Lawson would have been 'surcharged', i.e.
held personally and individually liable for the money lost defending
the pound just before it was cut loose.  (How long does it take to pay
back a few billion on a Cabinet salary?)  Further, they'd likely have 
been barred from standing for public office in future.

-- 
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
 P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!uknet!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: evansg@uproar.enet.dec.com (Gwyn Evans @ IME)
Subject: VNS: Fri  9-Oct-1992
Keywords: VNS,news
Organization: Digital Equipment Service Industries Solutions Company Ltd
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 11:44:29 GMT


<><><><><><><><>  T h e   V O G O N   N e w s   S e r v i c e  <><><><><><><><>

 Edition : 2680               Friday  9-Oct-1992            Circulation :  7742

        VNS MAIN NEWS .....................................   47 Lines

VNS MAIN NEWS:                                    [Tom Povey, VNS UK News Desk]
==============                                    [Reading, England           ]

     Here is the News at 07:00 BST on day -October-1992
     --------------------------------------------------

     UK News
     -------
     FT-SE = 2538.8

     John Major makes an important speech at the conservative party conference
     today following one of the most fractious conferences weeks for years.

     Yesterday, the chancellor gave what appears to have been a satisfactory
     speech in which he gave the governments aim of reducing inflation to 4%
     now and 2% eventually. He also said that Britain will stay out of the ERM
     until conditions are right for re-entry. He told British businesses to
     take advantage of the floating pound and mount an export drive.

     The inflation rate for the last month is to be released later today and
     is expected to be 3.9%.

     Two bombs exploded last night in London, slightly injuring 1 person.

     Two bombs exploded in Northern Ireland last night.

     A murder inquiry is underway in the north east after the body of a 7 year
     old girl was found in an empty warehouse. She had disappeared from
     outside her home on Wednesday.

     European News
     -------------

     The former West German chancellor and mayor of West Berlin Willy Brant
     has died at his home.

     International News
     ------------------

     There is a warning that southern Sudan is about to suffer a huge famine
     on the scale of Somalia following years of civil war.

     There are reports of a big explosion at an oil refinary in Los Angeles.

     {News courtesy of the BBC}

     Local Weather
     -------------

     Cloudy but dry start. Staying cooler. High 14C/57F.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><>   VNS Edition : 2680      Friday  9-Oct-1992   <><><><><><><><>
--
+======================================================================+
| Gwyn Evans  | evansg@uproar.enet.dec.com |  Uxbridge, Middlesex, UK  |
| DESISCo - Digital Equipment Service Industries Solutions Company Ltd |
|  Views expressed and statements made are mine and not those of DEC   |
+======================================================================+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
From: quigley@acs.ucalgary.ca (Martyn Thomas Quigley)
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 05:40:52 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
>|> >|> >What are we going to do next?   Excuse the little darlings
>|> >|> >from listening to Mozart because it doesn't have a nice
>|> >|> >solid disco beat?
>|> >|> 
>|> >|> No, because it does.  To paraphrase Glenn Gould "A day without
>|> >|> Mozart is like a day without memos."
>|> >
>|> >You wouldn't be one of those people who saw Amadeus and concluded
>|> >that you had heard His music, would you?
>|> 
>|> No.  Simply pointing out that some people don't like Mozart.
>
>Oh, I could have sworn you were saying his music has a disco beat.
>
>jon.

You asked if I was "one of those people who saw Amadeus ..." and I said no.
If you "could have sworn...beat" you should have made that the content
of your posting.  Too late to change now.

But yes, Mozart does have a "nice solid disco beat".  That's why it is 
so tiresome.

Mart
From: colin@cs.uq.oz.au (Colin Millerchip)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Dum dee dum...
Date: 8 Oct 92 01:30:42 GMT
Reply-To: colin@cs.uq.oz.au

I know: I (almost) only ever post to this group when I want something.

Well... what gives? Any news gratefully received. When last I heard,
things were getting interesting for the Pargitters.

Also, any news on a possible Omnibus on the World Service?

C.

--
|Colin Millerchip           | "And all this science I don't understand,|
|University of Queensland,  |  It's just my job five days a week"      |
|Brisbane, Australia.       |   - "Rocketman", Elton John              |
|colin@cs.uq.oz.au          |                                          |
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:14237 alt.politics.british:291 soc.culture.celtic:6865
From: nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.politics.british,soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Is there any need for that struggle(Re: Irish Rejects Associated (IRA))
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:53:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: VOILA.NICKH.92Oct16105335
	<1992Oct14.173845.26611@infodev.cam.ac.uk>
	<Bw605L.tG@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> <1992Oct15.181934.8772@infodev.cam.ac.uk>
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: nickh@VOILA.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <1992Oct15.181934.8772@infodev.cam.ac.uk> ag129@cus.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant) writes:

			And surely it's significant that the most
   outspoken Unionist leader (the Revd. Ian Paisley) is a priest?

But he had to set up his own church. By those rules Adolf Hitler could
have been a priest.

Nick Haines nickh@cmu.edu

BTW: hi, Alasdair
From: srd@ukc.ac.uk (S.R.Davies)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: exeter university
Date: 14 Oct 92 12:26:36 GMT
Reply-To: srd@ukc.ac.uk (S.R.Davies)
Organization: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.


 In article <venus.718739721@yorku.ca> venus@nexus.yorku.ca (Venus M Adler) 
 writes :
>
>> i'm interested in speaking to electronic people from exeter university
>> regarding their computer network.
>

	Looks like you want the Robotics Department !

 Regards, Steve.
From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Privatisation snippets
Date: 15 Oct 92 02:13:02 GMT
Organization: sgi
NNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com

In article <1992Oct15.012818.1733@morrow.stanford.edu>, mossop@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Antony Mossop) writes:
>
> Large banks, insurance companies etc.. have a very good idea how much
> say a large telecommunications monopoly in a country like the UK is
> worth. They employ large numbers of people to make them large sums of
> money on exactly this kind of information.

No.   Large banks, insurance companies etc. *say* that they can
do this kind of thing and come up with a price.   But they lie.

You really must not be taken in by the idea that just because
a Bank has a shiny marble hall, they know how to price shares.
If banks and insurance companies knew how to price shares, they
would be able to play the stock market a lot more successfully
than they do.

The reality is that they screw up often as not.    There was 
the failure of the BP (?) offering that these genuises put out 
the same day as the '87 crash, and the failure of the BAe 
offering just this year.   But there's a more general reason.

The reality is that *no-one* knows how to price shares.   That's
because the price of shares has a large component which is not
based on static information, like current assets and liabilities,
or even this year's profits, but instead on information which
is anyone's guess, like how well will this country/company/market
be doing in five/ten/twenty years.    The stock market exists,
and prices go up and down precisely because no two people agree
about that kind of thing.   Add in the odd panic, and the 
problem starts to look quite difficult.

Ask yourself a simple question: if banks are so good at 
estimating the prices of shares, how come the Japanese banks 
have taken such a pasting in the Japanese Stock market as it 
came down this past year or so.    These genuises didn't just
buy these shares: for some of them these shares are the main
component of the banks' assets, and now the Japanese Govt.
is looking at something like a trillion dollar bank bailout.

Given that, just how good can they be at estimating share
prices?

jon. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,uk.misc
From: keith@unipalm.co.uk (Keith Mitchell)
Subject: Re: BBC Radio 4 Longwave
Organization: Unipalm Ltd., 216 Cambridge Science Park, Cambridge CB4 4WA, UK
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 16:35:43 GMT

des@inmos.co.uk (David Shepherd) writes:

>In any case it seems that R4 and R6 will share many programs ... i.e.
>the core news programs and documentary series, with R4 having more
>drama etc in the gaps while R6 has more documentary/news comment etc
>slots.

They *better* share some programs - if they move any of the Today
programme, World at One/this Weekend, PM, or the only decent-length
national news bulletins you can get on Radio (or at all at the
weekend), off of FM onto crunchy LW, they will most certainly be
hearing from me.

Contrary to many of the pro-Radio 4 views expressed in this debate,
I must admit to having little patience with a lot of it's non-news
output. (Having to listen to some twee serialisation between 0840 and 0900
on the morning a major news story is breaking, just because parliament is on
holiday is particularly irritating). However, I tend to believe that
all tastes should be catered for, so am fairly tolerant.

I do not understand why people are so against FM - AM, especially LW,
sounds particulary awful, and the Beeb are putting a lot of money
into extending the R4FM network. LW coverage is by no means universal
either - try listening to AM with a Walkman on a train, never mind
in the West Highlands.

Maybe the solution is to have R6 on FM, and R4 on LW, since those who
seem to be reactionary about news programming also seem to have a smilar
attitude to FM :-)

Seriously, though, the Government's views on simultaneous frequency use
don't seem to be congruent with the public's, and 24-hour news *can*
be boring. How about having R6 as an opt-in only when there is big news,
or even better, extend coverage of the World Service on 648kHz MW to
the whole of the UK ?

Keith Mitchell

Public IP Exchange             keith@pipex.net
216 The Science Park           keith@unipalm.co.uk
Cambridge, UK        
Phone: +44 223-424616
Fax:   +44 223-426868
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: james@syacus.acus.oz.au (James Smith)
Subject: Re: VNS:The Vogon News Service
Organization: ACUS Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Sydney
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 21:55:59 GMT

jlloyd@cc.uow.edu.au (Jonathan Lloyd) writes:

>I would like to thank the guys who keep VNS going for providing 
>us poor expats with the most reliable and unbiased news service
>we could wish for.

>Keep up the good work. One suggestion, less world news we can all get that 
>from the local media. More UK news and more rugby coverage.


Hear, Hear ! VNS is much appreciated. More UK news would be very welcome.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: Salaries
Reply-To: Hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron, Experiment ZEUS bei HERA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 10:00:54 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.083506.136@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew
Huntbach) writes:

|>From: hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R Pennell)
|>>Question:
|>>       Assume a basic salary of 17,000 pounds a year. Before tax.
|>>       Assume that there is sufficient capital to buy house without
|>>       having to take out a mortgage.
|>>       Is the salary enough to live on in S.W. England (husband, wife
|>>       two small children)?
|>>       What do people think (restrain yourself, Laurence)?
|>
|>17,000 is more than many people with families and mortgages or
|>rent to pay earn. It is about the average salary in the UK.
|>Thus if it is not possible to live on this salary when you have
|>the luxury of not having to pay a mortgage then over
|>half the population of the UK cannot live.

During the hose price mega-inflation a few years back I remember working out the
tyoe of house I could afford as a professional engineer with two degrees and
expert knowlege in a highly paid area. I rapidly came to the conclusion that I
could not afford to buy a house of any kind without additional capital.

Point is if I cannot afford to buy a house in the UK how can anybody else? Fact
is that house prices in the UK are still grossly overpriced and must inevitably
face a reduction. The September house price figures were encouraging. Hoepfully
they will continue at this rate for a year which would return the situation to
that before the Lawson blunder-budget.

--

Phill Hallam-Baker
From: amcb@unixg.ubc.ca (Adam McBain)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Cities with 7 hills (was Responding to the Nick and Jon challenge
Date: 14 Oct 1992 22:50:02 GMT
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca

<stuff deleted>

Dave Shariff Yadallee writes:

Rome is the only city that I know of that has 7 hills.

Others reply:

>>Tallahassee, FL, is also built on seven hills.  And it is much more
>>unpleasant than Rome.

>>> Edinburgh also has seven hills and is  much more pleasant than Rome.

>>>>Cincinnatti is built on seven hills, and is IMHO quite pleasant. 

How many hills has Manchester got then?
Couldn't they put in a bid for Centre of the AntiChrist's Empire 2000 AD?
From: fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Privatisation snippets
Date: 10 Oct 92 01:04:29 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:

-From: fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes)

[...sorry, but it is all relevant...]

--However, I'm confused by those people who argue:
--
--a) The government shouldn't be selling the shares. I am happy currently
--being an effective shareholder in nationalised company X.
--
--b) They're selling them too cheaply anyway.
--
--..the obvious thing for these people to do is to buy some shares,
--because:
--
--a) They'll still be a shareholder as they requested above.
--
--b) By their own calculation, they're getting a bargain.

-That's all very well if you have the money to buy them back.
-Yes, I am sure you will argue that you do have the money in the
-form of the having to pay less tax. That argument doesn't hold
-though when the proceeds of privatisation were used only to
-reduce some people's taxes (the rich of course).

Well, the last tax cut was on the basic rate. And don't forget that
mortgage tax relief was abolished at the higher rate. Your statement
just doesn7t hold water here :-)

-Matthew Huntbach

FoFP
From: Schoenling
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Betting on the Prez
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:16:52 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Research Triangle Park, NC

In article <1992Oct13.001248.7752@dscomsf.desy.de> hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill
Hallam-Baker) writes:
>In article <1992Oct12.173821.18501@pony.Ingres.COM>, cmorris@Ingres.COM (Colin
>Morris) writes:
>
>|>In article <PLUMMER.92Oct10131431@nutmeg.cs.swarthmore.edu>
>|>plummer@cs.swarthmore.edu (David Barker-Plummer) writes:
>
>|> You can go to legalized brothels (in
>|>some counties) but you can't bet on the next president. An interesting
>|>sense of priorities.
>
>Ah But can you bet on the brothel the president will go to next?
>
>
>--
>Phill Hallam-Baker
>
That's not a gamble, its a sure thing!  It's the big white building
on the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue(a.k.a. Congress) :-)!

D. Schoenling
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Does being Tory mean you're Thick
Date: 15 Oct 92 12:37:02 GMT
	<14OCT199212293233@sscvx1.ssc.gov> <1bi1c6INNfd9@fido.asd.sgi.com>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <1bi1c6INNfd9@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:

   In article <14OCT199212293233@sscvx1.ssc.gov>, godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY) writes:
   |> 
   |> What is your evidence for that statement?  I know that's what the Mail,
   |> Sun, Star, Express constantly claim in their editorials "it's bad but
   |> it would be worse under Labour", but where is the justification?

   Wilson, Callaghan, a loony whose name escapes me, and Kinnock.

   jon.

Yes, but where is the justification?
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Does being Tory mean you're Thick
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:28:10 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1992Oct16.134158.9012@osf.org>, sp@osf.org (Simon Patience) writes:
> In article <26950@castle.ed.ac.uk>, cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) writes:


>> We have such things in the national curriculum as the
>> history cut-off date -- history officially finishes at the end of the
>> 2nd World War. That will stop these blasted left-wing teachers from
>> talking to the kids about modern politics.
> 
> This is what happens when you don't do your job properly I suppose. You
> get stupidly restrictive rules placed on you.
> 
No, it's what happens when you have a paranoid ideologue in charge of the
Department of Education and Science. There were some fascinating snippets in
Tuesday's Guardian (funny how every fasciniating snippet someone quotes is
either from the Guardian or the BBC) from a forthcoming book by the former
head of the body responsible for the National Curriculum describing how one
ignorant minister managed to reject the advice given him by a whole team of
civil servants and an expert committee on this very point. There has never been
any suggestion (except of course from succesive Education Secretaries) that
teachers have been trying to indoctrinate their pupils. It is one more of the
government's myths about `the enemy within'.

-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R Pennell)
Subject: Re: The BBC on KALW - FM 91.7 in the San Francisco Bay Area
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:01:02 GMT

proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts) writes:
: Here is the schedule for BBC programs on KALW.
:      Letter from America(*) Monday         9:15am 
:     (*) Alistair Cooke's weekly discussion of the state of the
:         world in general and the United States in particular.
		[lots and lots of programmes deleted]

	Ah yes, Mr Cooke. When I was small, my parents used to listen
religiously to him. I was brought up on Cooke-on-America. SO were lots
of other people I know. It took the form of brainwashing, I think.
My wife (Singaporean) pointed out as we were listening to the great man
on the car radio here (World Service on FM in Singapore) that he is
actually a pompous boring old fart. I suddenly realised a. that (as
usual) she is right and b. that for thirty years I had never actually
listened to a word the p.b.o.f had said. Do other people agree with this
assessment? and what do Mercans think of his account of THEIR country. 

Richard Pennell, History NUS


.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british