HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: akkana@netcom.com (Akkana Peck)
Subject: Re: ADVISE sought: WIFE doesn't wear helmet, etc. - how to make her do
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 92 04:58:09 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Distribution: na

In article <1992Sep3.160038.13375@syscen.com> judiths@usisun.UUCP (Judith Speck) writes:
>  One thing that really annoys me that I saw when I was working in a 
>bike shop was the way that couples buy bikes.  The male usually buys
>himself something nice and then buys his wife something much lower, 
>since "she doesn't ride as well".  Right, he expects her to keep up
>on a Schwinn Crisscross while he's on a high end road or mountain bike.

There's a great story in either "The Woman Cyclist" or "Are We Winning
Yet?": the author asks a grade-school-aged girl to imagine a bicycle race
between a girl and a boy: who would win?  The author was disturbed to
hear the girl answer: "The boy would win."  The reason?  "Because boys
get better bikes.  My friend's brother just got an 18-speed for his
birthday, and most girls his age get 3-speeds or 5-speeds."

I have some friends who do the same thing: he borrows a friend's decent
mountain bike, she rides her decade-old road bike or borrows a mountain
bike that's the wrong size for her, and then he gets upset when she has
trouble keeping up.  So she gets even more frustrated and discouraged.
After riding with them once, I was amazed that she ever wanted to
accompany him anywhere, since he kept darting out of sight and forgetting
to wait for her ...

Too bad bikes are so size-dependant, so the stronger rider can't just say
"Hey, let's switch bikes to equalize things a bit."

	...Akkana
	(I upgraded to a better bike than my regular riding partner has,
	and we both have more fun now ...)
From: casseres@apple.com (David Casseres)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: MYTH or FACT: Do bicycle helmets wear out from age?
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:42:52 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.

In article <tech.714251691@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca>,
tech@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Richard Loken) wrote:
> 
> bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com (Bob Geer) writes:
> 
> >tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes:
> >>As an aside I
> >>would not take anything consumer reports says very seriously.  Especially
> >>when they're talking aobut bikes or bike accessories.
> 
> Because they don't have a clue about anything.
> Because they are interested in price and finish not performance or longevity.
> Because they think a bicycle is used on bike paths after carrying it there in
> your new Lexus.
> Because their entire purpose is guilt free consumption.

I can tell this is an unbiased, objective evaluation.  Consumer Reports
doesn't know anything about the bikes enthusiasts buy or the riding
enthusiasts do, but guess what?  Not everybody on a bike is an enthusiast. 
Many of them, thank god, are just people using a bike to get to work or
wherever else they're going.  Consumer Reports has a lot of information for
that class of cyclist, and they'll do a lot better with this information
than they will going down to K-Mart and asking the salesdroid what kind of
bike is good.

--

David Casseres
Exclaimer: Wow!
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: ams@watson.ibm.com (Aaron Shtromas)
Subject: Missing subject header
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 12:18:15 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

last weekend i finally got some time to read my bicisport. by the way,
if you order it through branford bike they keep all the special isssues,
and there are several of them - pre-season, post-season, giro and tour.
so, caveat emptor!

at any rate, bs has a complete world's calendar and the detailed analysis
of the road course at benidorm. the loop is 21.8 km long. it start climbing
from the start line for almost 7 km - 6.7% on 1 km, 5.2% on 2 km, 4.1% on
3 km, 5.5% on 4 km, 4.6% on 5 km, 6.4% on 6 km with 14% in the final 500 m.
then the course decsends rapidly to 10 km to the place called finestrat,
where it takes a sharp left (about 135 degrees on the map) and drops down
almost continuously to 20 km mark, except for 24 m rise from 10 km to 
10.5 km mark and 21 m from 13.5 to 14.5 km. the steepest descent is from
15.5 km to 17.5 km, a drop from 170 m to 40 m above the sea level. the
breakaways would be caught on the descent. the highest point is 396 m on
6.5 km mark.
the last km is almost level for the 1st 600 m, from 5 m to 5.5, then it
raises slightly to 10 m at 300 m to go, to 25 m at the finish line (5%).
bs analyst alfredo martini estimates that it will be 53x15 45 km/h finish
at the wide open avenue. he sais that this finish is very similar to that
in renaix.
it is expected that heat will be an important factor on this exposed
course (there are several pictures of the key points in the course.

back to the bicisprt - i was savouring the tidbits from the special tour
issue. for example, ariostea's rolf goelz was expelled from the tour for
holding on to the team car, along with tvm's peter meinert. there are
also plenty of comments from riders, as well as ex-riders. for example,
hinault's top three prediction was indurain-bugno-leblanc.
oh, and chiappucci is named by bs as "il cacciatore delle alpi" -
"the hunter of the alps".

aaron
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: tohall@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Dave Hall (Sverdrup))
Subject: Re: Length of Races in the U.S.:  Too Short?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date:  4 Sep 1992 07:56 EST  

In article <1992Sep3.161346.29740@tamsun.tamu.edu>, ks@stat.tamu.edu (Kurt F. Sauer) writes...
>There are some items on the USCF Board of Directors agenda which are
>quite interesting and which deal with the length of racing in the U.S.
> 
>I will extract from the agenda; I wonder what you (other racers) think.

>	Submitted by Les Earnest.
>	Comment:  "Riders must be able to go longer in order to be
>	competitive internationally.  

        This is fine for Cat 1/2 races, where some of the competitors
will indeed have international competition as a goal. What about races
in the Cat 3, Cat 4, Cat 5 and Masters ranks? 


>	...
>	[Added] (b) A qualifying race for upgrading is one of the following
>	races that is not a handicap, club, collegiate, or training race
>	and that is open only to riders of the applicant's category or
>	higher.

       So this means that Cat 3's can't get upgrade points in races where
the cat 3/4's are combined? Some of those races are darned competitve! If
you doubt it, you shoulda seen the "expert" category at the Tour De Michigan
series last month!


>	(1)  Individual road races at least 100km long for men or
>	70km long for women and minimum field size of 60 men or 25 women.
>	(2)  Criteriums at least 40km long for men or 32 km for women with
>	minimum field size of 60 men or 25 women.
>	(3)  Stage races at least two days long.  Points can be earned
>	both in the qualifying stages and for overall placing at the end.
> 
>	Submitted by Legislation Committee.
>	Comment:  "This provides upgrades based on a point system similar
>	to the National Ranking System."
> 

      In general, I agree with this proposal IFF it is applied to the 
requirements to upgrade to Cat 1. If it is applied to all categories,
it will, IMHO, make it a lot harder to upgrade for everyone. Some people 
may get discouraged and decide to quit racing. Do you REALLY want this? 




                     Just my $0.2


                                DH




Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: mikeh@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (michael p.herlihy)
Subject: Pro Bicycling
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:18:38 GMT


I remember reading in _Bicycling_ magazine a couple of years
ago about a professional bicycling league.  Does anyone know
what happened to it?

-- 
Da mihi castitatem et continentiam, sed noli modo. 
Confessions of St. Augustine, Book VIII, Chapter 7
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.racing:69 rec.bicycles:22100
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: World Championship Road -- Contest
Date: 2 Sep 92 22:24:48 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Sep2.201229.27471@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) writes:
>
>The posting I saw said there were 350 m, or over 1100 ft, of climbing in
>each of 12 laps.  That makes it 4200 m, or almost 14,000 ft, of climbing
>during the race.  It doesn't sound flat to me.

Pardon me. I didn't mean flat as in the Delta. I meant flat enough
at 6% grade to keep the pack together if the climbing speed doesn't
get skyrocketed by guys like Roche, Fignon and Zulle.

If this is the case then the pack will be held tegether by the teams
and a pack sprint will occur. Since the finish line was said to be all
open, maybe they're planing on this. It's about time we got a World
Championship that the sprinters could contest.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: mac4@cec2.wustl.edu (Miguel Angel Cotignola)
Subject: World Championship
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:25:25 GMT

Hello;

Does anybody knows when the "World Championship" is?

     Thanks, Miguel
     mac4@cec1.wustl.edu
From: scherrer@ifi.unizh.ch (Stefan Scherrer)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: World Championship Road -- Contest
Date: 4 Sep 92 08:52:22 GMT
Reply-To: scherrer@ifi.unizh.ch
Organization: University of Zurich, Department of Computer Science

I would like to see (at least once in my life) a Swiss rider on the top. 
This year, I guess the chances are not that bad, cuz:

* the race gonna be very hard, so I guess that only *really* tough riders
  will be seen first in the end. Riders which have specially prepared for this race
  are more likely to succeed. 
  -> Rominger won the Vuelta but since there, he had an easy schedule.
  
* the particular climbs seem not to be that steep. 
  -> high-speed hammerers like Zuelle should be able to do it.
  
Not to forget the other ones.

Cheers, Stefan

---
Stefan Scherrer                         Phone   : +41 1 257 45 76 
Institut fuer Informatik                Fax     : +41 1 363 00 35
Universitaet Zuerich                    Telex   : 817 251 unii ch 
Winterthurerstrasse 190                 EAN     : scherrer@ifi.unizh.ch
CH-8057 Zuerich, Switzerland 
---
My opinion does not reflect the opinions of my employees...
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest)
Subject: Welcome to rec.bicycles.racing
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 05:36:45 GMT

I'm especially pleased to see that this group is alive and well.
Here is the charter, in case you don't remember.

rec.bicycles.racing: Race results, racing techniques, rules, and
organizations.  Not racing equipment -- see rec.bicycles.marketplace
or rec.bicycles.tech.

--
Les Earnest                                  Phone:  415 941-3984
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: Bernd.Kischnick@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Bernd Kischnick)
Subject: TdF white jersey classification
Summary: they didn't abandon the white jersey
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:17:31 GMT

When I flipped the pages of my monthly cycling magazine,
I was very surprised to find a table of the final ranking in the white
jersey classification amongst their tour coverage articles.

I was surprised because no article, newspaper, TV report, net news,
ever mentioned the white jersey classification of the best 
neo-professional under 25 years old. And I was told that that
classification was abandoned two years ago together with the
more obscure red jersey, green caps etc.

So here are the results from "tour", September issue:
Eddy Bouwmans (Panasonic) 101h 18' 5" (GC 14. @ +28'35")
Virenque                  +17'26" (25.)
van der Laer              +31'54" (30.)
Cepele                    +40'25" (32.)
Jalabert                  +41'33" (34.)
Zhdanov                   +48'29" (38.)
Ledanois                  +51'08" (42.)
Robin                     +57'47" (44.)
Escartin                 +1h0'40" (45.)
Krieger                  +1h9'42" (53.)

When I see the close spacing in the GC,
I would even say that there has been a real contest
for that jersey. Funny everybody else ignored it.

Quote of the day:
Jens Lehmann after his defeat against Chris Boardman on Lotus:
"The way Chris rode today, I would have lost
 even if he had been on a Holland bike."

The definite comment about the Lotus miracle! :-)

-   Bernd.

urgent email to bernd.kischnik@cdc2.ifum.maschinenbau.uni-hannover.dbp.de








--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: ams@watson.ibm.com (Aaron Shtromas)
Subject: Missing subject header
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1992 11:33:10 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

in response to my yesterday's post djconnel@leland.Stanford.EDU writes:
>I just have two questions (don't waste more than one minute answering these,
>as I really am being rather picky) -- when I add your altitudes
>I get:

>dist  alt     delta grade
>(km)  (km)    (km)
>---------------------------
>0.00  0.0250  0.00  0.0000
>1.00  0.0920  1.00  0.0670
>2.00  0.1440  1.00  0.0520
>3.00  0.1850  1.00  0.0410
>4.00  0.2400  1.00  0.0550
>5.00  0.2860  1.00  0.0460
>6.00  0.3500  1.00  0.0640
>6.50  0.4200  0.50  0.1400     <--listed at alt=.396
>10.00 0.2823  3.50  -0.0393    <--grade calculated
>10.50 0.3063  0.50  0.0480
>13.50 0.1884  3.00  -0.0393    <--grade calculated
>14.50 0.2094  1.00  0.0210
>15.50 0.1700  1.00  -0.0393    <--grade calculated
>17.50 0.0400  2.00  -0.0650
>20.00 0.0050  2.50  -0.0140
>20.80 0.0050  0.80  0.0000     <--grade of 0 assumed
>21.40 0.0055  0.60  0.0008
>21.50 0.0100  0.10  0.0450
<21.80 0.0250  0.30  0.0500
>
>I calculated the grad of the descent to make the course have a net
>gain of 0 elevation.  I don't care about that -- the grade of
>the descent isn't important.

>Note though that the top of the climb comes out at 420 m, 24m above
>the 396m you quoted.>

>I can think of three explainations:>

>1) The "396m at 6.5km" is referenced to the
>   25m starting line.

>2) The "14% for 0.5km" is a peak grad of 14%
>   over a 10% average 0.5km.

>3) The grades over kilometers 0-6.5 are generally
>  high by 5% or so.

>Do you know the reason for the discrepency?


>Also, a small point -- you say it descends to kilometer 20 and the
>last km, beginning at km 20.8, is at 50m.  Is it mostly flat from 20km
>to 20.8km?


>Thanks,
>Dan
-- 

clarification: the figures were out of the text. the article is accompanied
by a profile which follows:

0 km	17m above sea level
0.5	45
1	67
1.5	91
2	119
2.5	142
3	160
3.5	182
4	215
4.5	230
5	261
5.5	293
6	325
6.5	396
7	326
7.5	322
8	300
8.5	292
9	260
9.5	250
10	250
10.5	274
11	262
11.5	240
12	230
12.5	210
13	199
13.5	173
14	190
14.5	194
15	184
15.5	170
16	120
16.5	84
17	65
17.5	40
18	24
18.5	23
19	14
19.5	9
20	5
20.5	5
21	17

the last kilometre profile is:

0 - 300		5 m
    400		5.5
    500		7
    600		8.6
    700		10
    800		14
    900		19
   1000		25

i suspect that the finish line, about 1.5 km is different from the main
course. in fact, the article says that the finishing straight is after
a left turn, which cannot be seen on the map of the course.

(on unrelated subject, can anybody suggest why the subject in my postings
is substituted to "missing subject header". i'm using xrn.)

aaron
From: marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: El Paso Road Race and Criterium
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:53:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: slc.1992Aug26.175343.1739
Distribution: usa
Organization: Servio Corp, Beaverton Oregon, US

sery (sery@crunch.unm.edu) writes:

> 			El Paso Road Race, August 22

Nice coverage, Paul. Call up VeloNews!

By the way, which one's your team?

    Marc San Soucie
    Portland, Oregon
    marcs@slc.com
From: harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Cornering tactic- legal or not ?
Date: 1 Sep 92 01:16:56 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

tom@igs.com (Tom Nelson) writes:
: What if taking the inside going into the corner forced him wide
: coming out and caused the others to have to brake to keep from
: getting cut off? (Something I did earlier this season).

It's not against any rules in the book, and is in my opinion a valid and
appropriate tactic.  I've won and lost races through similar approaches.
If another rider wants to counter, "all" they have to do is beat you to
the corner and force you to brake going into the turn.

I'll offer a couple of related anecdotes.  In one race, I found myself
leading into the last turn, but the final straight was just a little
long for a winning lead out from the corner.  I took a weird enough line
into the turn that people thought I was going to fall down.  They backed
off, giving me a gap of around one or two bike lengths exiting the turn.
That was enough for the win.  In another race, the final straight was
only about 100 m or maybe 125 m long.  The preceding straight was even
shorter.  One other guy and I independently figured out that the first
person out of the penultimate turn was going to win the race.  We ended
up in a drag race in the left gutter leading into the left turn.  We
were side by side, with me on the left but about half a wheel ahead.  At
the last possible instant the other rider switched to the right to get a
better cornering line.  I didn't have time to do likewise, so right at
the entrance to the turn I jammed on the brakes.  I basically went
straight, on the brakes, until I was about halfway through the
intersection, and then cranked a hard turn.  I was going slow by that
point, but my weird line had forced everyone else to slow down as well.
I was first out of the turn, and indeed managed to win the race.

Harry Phinney   harry@hp-pcd.cv.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: shenry@cs.rice.edu (Sam Henry)
Subject: Re: RESULTS: Championship of Zurich.
Organization: Rice University, Houston
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:09:36 GMT

In article <Btn72v.4r7@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk> ccsdhd@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk
(Dennis Davis) re-reports: 

>Sigh, I got the above placings slightly wrong.  ...

That's ok, as long as this didn't change:

>>World Cup Overall Standings

>>3.  R Alcala  72 points

Vamanos El Raul!!!



-- 
sam henry <shenry@rice.edu>
Wanna ride?
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.racing:73 rec.bicycles:22140
From: mai@neit.cgd.ucar.edu (Andrew Mai)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: World Championship Road -- Contest
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:54:27 GMT
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO

In article <54jn9fp.tomk@netcom.com> tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
>
>Hmm, a flat course, well -- it looks like a sprinters race if
>the pack stays together and a green jersey type if it doesn't.
>Wouldn't it be wild if Sean Kelly won? Nah, it'll be a match
>between the German and the Italian sprinters.
>

A 350 meter rise in 5km is *not* flat, especially when you need to do
it 12 times.  This is a tougher course than the 1986 World's course
in Colorado where Moreno Argentin won, beating Charly Mottet who had
nothing left on the last climb.  My guess is that this course is a
little too difficult for Argentin and that the race will be won by
someone with some real climbing power, not a pure sprinter.

Andy


      ---  __o          Andrew W. Mai
   ----  _`\<,_         National Center for Atmospheric Research
    --- (*)/ (*)        mai@ncar.ucar.edu
From: lars@craycos.com (Ron Larson)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Celestial Seasoning Classic, Stage 3
Date: 27 Aug 92 19:10:46 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

Road of cycling memories remains at Vail

By Natalie Meisler
Denver Post Sports Writer

VAIL - The graffiti on the pot-holed Vail Pass old frontage road has
faded with the memories of the bicycle race once staged there.

"All these are old people," said a gasping Christy Nicholson, a
Californian unfamiliar with Colorado's altitude or bicycle racing
heritage.

The Celestial Seasonings Bicycle Classic used that 10-mile stretch for
the Vail Pass Time Trial yesterday. It was the same route where Bernard
Hinault, Andrew Hampsten, Greg LeMond, Jeannie Longo and Maria Canins
raced in the Coors Classics of old. Their names are the ones still
whitewashed on the rough pavement.

"I raced with all of them," said Rebecca Twigg, the 1983 Coors Classic
winner who just came out of a three- year retirement to win a bronze
medal in the Olympics at age 29. Longo triumphed from 1985-87 in the
Coors Classics, but Twigg beat her in the quarterfinals of the Olympic
women's track pursuit last month.

Twigg finished the time trial in fifth place, two minutes, 26 seconds
behind Inga Thompson's winning time of 31:44.

Thompson, winner of the final Coors Classic in 1988, said "That hill
keeps getting steeper. I don't remember it this steep."

Thompson, took the overall lead with the time trial victory and kept it
through the Vail Village Criterium won by Glenwood Springs' Jeanne
Golay of the U.S. National Team.

But for Twigg, 2:36 down and in sixth place in the overall standings,
the fun is just being back in Colorado and racing again. She retired
from the sport after failing to make the 1988 Olympic team.  Last
November, she gave up retirement with the goal of going to the
first-ever women's pursuit in the Olympics.

Twigg described herself as a "computer geek" in San Diego. "It was
challenging mentally, but it was so hard for me to be stationary all
the time." She doesn't have enough of a training base to contend in a
multi-day stage race but at the last minute, she decided to join her
boyfriend, J'Me Carney of the Shaklee team.

"The racing in Colorado was the best stage racing women ever had in
this country," Twigg said. "I hope they can bring it back to that level
and keep it."

Meanwhile, with leads of a minute, 32 seconds and 2:08 over Jan Bolland
and Boulder's Dede Demet of the five-rider U.S. National Team, Thompson
wasn't confident of wrapping up the win at today's Morgul-Bismark race.
But then she didn't think she had any chance at all coming into the
race.   I

"It's going to be hard with five national team riders. I'm hoping I'm I
strong enough to neutralize them," I Thompson said. "I know they are
going to try to ride me out of the jersey. If it takes five of them to
beat me, more .  power to me."
-- 
Ron Larson                       |   If pro is the opposite of con,
Cray Computer Corporation        |   what is the opposite of progress??
lars@craycos.com  (719)-540-4232 |              Frank & Ernest
From: holliday@cse.unl.edu (david holliday)
Subject: The Far Side and The Tour de France
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 01:42:41 GMT

The Far Side cartoon that appeared in Monday's paper had sort of a bicycle
racing twist to it.

The picture shows a man with a very large nose laying down (presumably
sleeping) in bed. There are about ten little bugs crawling up and around
his nose. The caption says:

           Every August, the fleas would test their endurance
                     in the grueling Tour de Frank.

I had a chuckle or two when I read that. Obviously, Gary Larson (like E.
Merckx) realizes TIOOYK (tm) :-)

Dave
----
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing