From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Pentagrams
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 09:34:44 GMT

locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Scott Locklin) writes:
: In article <1992Dec23.085454.4093@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
: >: >
: >: >And you don't think that the pagan faiths are not? If so, then you have a 
: >: >lot of reading to do.
: >: 
: >: Well!
: >: SOMEONE seems to have had a shitty day!
: >
: >Nope - I just believe that the same criteria should be used to judge
: >all - if you are going to judge at all.
: 
: Then why 5 three to four line flames in a row? No creativity?

Did I call the person an "asshole" or an "idiot"? If not, then you have
a different definition of "flame" than I do. 

Granted, I could have worded my comments more politely. However, in this
case, I did not choose to do so. Is being blunt "flaming"?

 ... delided ...

: >The point was - does this make the pagan faiths "wrong"? If not, then why 
: >does the same weakness make Christianity "wrong".
: 
: The reason Christianity is "wrong" (which BTW, I never said in the first place)
: to my set of "morals" is because it has the noxious habit of attempting to
: impose its set of repressive moral restrictions on my lifestyle. If we had
: "jehovas witness" style Pagans going door to door, or attempting to teach
: their dogma in publically funded schools, or running for office on 
: "Pagan-centric" family values; then I would be more anti-pagan  than 
: anti-christian.

From what I have learned - it is not the Christian faith that has this
problem - it is the people who practice some versions of the religion
that have this problem. There are also pagans who are just as set in
their ways as some of the fundamentalist Christian sects. Granted, they
are in the minority - but so are the activist Christians. If pagans felt
that running for office on "Pagan-centric" values would get them elected,
you can bet that they would be doing so. If religion was allowed to be
taught in public schools, I would expect that pagans would insist that
their religion be taught along with the others.

: Meanwhile, we have pagans whos religions are based on an equal or greater
: fiction than christianity. For the most part, unless they get in my face about
: it, I could care less. When they become self-righteous to the point on nausea,
: it is time to use the sword of reason.

To me, all religions are based on fiction - so what? If a person feels 
comfortable with a myth, and that myth somehow makes their life easier
or more enjoyable, then more power to them.

... delided ...

: My question was a simple one: What is the historical basis for the use of the
: inverted versus the upright pentagram as a symbol of "evil" or satanism.
: I have gotten no useful answers here, only parrots of the possible answers that
: I stated were uninteresting in the beginning (i.e. symbol of a man, point to
: hell etc...). How this turned into some riduculous comparison between xtianity
: and the neo-pagan movement, I will never guess (actually, it was the result
: of several pointless flames & the expected responses).

As far as I know - the pentagram, whether inverted or not, was claimed to be
an evil symbol by the Christians. I am uncertain about the time period. You
might recall that the ceremonial magicians of the middle ages and before,
who were good Christians, used the pentagram in their ceremonies. Maybe there
is someone, who posts here, who has made a study of the matter.

Bill