HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "alan pickersgill" <alan.pickersgill@canrem.com>
Subject: re: reform party of canad
Reply-To: "alan pickersgill" <alan.pickersgill@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: can
Date: 26 Dec 92 20:24:30 EST

 -=> On 12-23-92  14:32, Jim Robinson wrote to All <=-

 JR> Please elaborate on how the RP has made itself "deliberately"
 JR> "attractive to bigots". That is a strong statement and one should
 JR> really provide some evidence if one is going to make it.

 I am thinking of policies on immigration, multi-culturalism, rcmp
 uniforms, bilingualism. They are doing nothing to discourage bigotry.

 JR> The RP "Mulroney Deal" ad was offensive. However, most of the
 JR> pro-accord ads were offensive as well - they either played to people's
 JR> emotions and fears (e.g., the kettle ad), or assumed we were incredibly
 JR> stupid. *Nobody* has anything to be proud about as far as campaigning
 JR> in the referendum goes.
 
 It is important to note, though, that the RP had been promoting itself
 as being different, and as the answer for Canadians who have become
 cynical about politicians. In its first major campaign, it showed itself
 to be the same as the rest.

 JR> My *current* prediction is that the Reform Party will take 20 to 30
 JR> seats in the next election. How they do after that is up to how they
 JR> perform in Parliament.

 A prediction I have heard, and which has some currency, is that Reform
 could take that many seats in Western Canada, the Bloc Quebecois could
 run away with Quebec's seats, and the Conservatives come out a close third
 in a three-way split of the other seats. The tories then make a deal with
 the RP & BQ, form a government, and we are back with Mulroney for a
 third term.

... Mulroney is to Manning as Frying Pan is to Fire
--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: can.politics,can.general,soc.culture.canada
From: 4224_5201@uwovax.uwo.ca (John LaRocque)
Subject: Re: Legalized Discrimination in Quebec
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:27:53 GMT
Followup-To: can.politics,can.general,soc.culture.canada

In article <1992Dec21.165049.7782@mdivax1.uucp>, robinson@mdivax1.uucp (Jim Robinson) writes:

I write about my dad:
>>>in Ontario he got hassled for his French accent. Even now racist
>>>assholes where he works hand him Reform/APEC pamphlets and hassle
>>>him and the other factory workers for speaking French.

Michael Hui sounds off his death wish on Reform:
>>I guess I was right after all when I fought so hard against the
>>Reform party. Their policies may be passable on paper. Too bad
>>a few of their member aren't even toilet trained.

And Jim replies
> My, my, but don't we like to make sweeping generalizations based on partial
> information concerning a few private citizens. Tell me, is it true that all
> NDPers hide AK-47s? under their beds and sleep below a picture of Stalin? I
> though not.

My original comment was about the people at my dad's work place. I posit 
that if you dig deep enough - you will find repugnant people like those
guys working for all of the parties. There was this guy quoted in Jean
Chretien's book (oddly enough, from BC) who said he was going to vote for
Trudeau (in 1968, I think) so he could stick it to the French. Does that
mean that the Liberal party is a party of bigots? Hey, my dad's workplace
even had a professional communist (I am not making this up) who also handed out
pamphlets to the "workers" and worked for the union. He may have been a
good union man - but his politics, yeeeech. (maybe he IS NDP - snicker :-))

For every "asshole" (my quote) who hands out pamphlets, there are probably
a dozen "nice" people. I'll give you one guess who gets all the attention.

> -- 
> Jim Robinson
> robinson@mdd.comm.mot.com
> {ubc-cs!van-bc,uunet}!mdivax1!robinson
-- 

John P. LaRocque
vader@uwo.ca
University of Western Ontario
London, Ontario


"Urk..urk..."
"Apology accepted, Captain Needa", Darth Vader
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.australian
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Subject: Re: Do we really need the monarchy?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:51:30 GMT

In article <i013VB1w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee) writes:
>sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:
>
>-
>-
>- <flutter> Oooh, do you think so??
>
>  The scent of Monty python humour
>
>-
>- Nah, let's get real.  TPHRH Dave thinks I am chasing him.
>- Which I am.  I'm trying to pack him off to BP and get him off the
>- continient of North America.  If he plays his cards right he might
>- even land Diana.  She might think he's a bit of pompous windbag,
>- but if he doesn't whinge about her bulimia I'll bet she might be
>- willing to proofread his material.
>
>  Nice try.  I am actually after a Celtie, descendant of Liverpudlian Welsh
>  and Edinburghan Scots. She is after all slighter younger than me, younger
>  enough and responsible for intro'ing me to the next.
>-
>- Dave, do you like to go to discos?
>-
>  Anywher Sarah tells me to go, that is sarah from Whitehall.

I have tried for several days to respond to this note and several
others you have posted.  All my attempts caused me great racking
spasms of laughter and blinding fits of mirth.  So the less said
about Celties, the better.


Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada,can.general
From: yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee)
Newsgroups: ab.general,can.politics,edm.general
Subject: Re: Federal Liberals nominated
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 05:55:11 MST
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #1, Edmonton, AB, Canada

golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:

- In article <o5qgVB3w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca
- >OKAY!! I know that Reform has its candidates in place for the next National
- >election in Edmonton.
- >
- >The Liberals have 4 to date:
- >
- >Edmonton Strathcona - Chris Pierce
- >Edmonton South-East - David Kilgour
- >Edmonton North      - John Loney
- >Edmonton North-West - (?)
- >
- >That nomination was last night.  I wonder how the other parteis are doing.
- >
-
- You actually have nomination meetings in Alberta...in Toronto, Chretien
- dictates who the candidates are to be.
-
- Gerald
-

  Could give us full details of the Toronto situation?

Dave Shariff Yadallee (B. Sc. (Econ/Math) (U of Alberta 1990) )
 (yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca, userLIBE@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca)
God Save the Queen, God Bless us All! Remember! Jesus Saves!!
Happy Christmas and Merry New Year to One and All - John Lennon
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: twt@mindlink.bc.ca (Tom W. Tomlinson)
Subject: Is there an NDP `think-tank'?
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: can
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:59:14 GMT

Here in BC there is an awful conservative (so-called) `think-tank'
called the Fraser Institute which is often in the news.  Is there
an equivalent for the NDP or for progressive political thought in
general?  What is it called, and where is it located?

Tired of the Regressive Regurgitives (TM)
Tom

(P.S.: please send me replies via E-mail if possible)

--
   ----------------------------------------------------
  |   Thomas W Tomlinson  |  Vancouver, B.C., Canada   |
  |       aka: Hylas      |        `Lotusland'         |
  |....................................................|
  |   twt@mindlink.bc.ca  | English/francais/italiano  |
   ----------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: robinson@mdivax1.uucp (Jim Robinson)
Subject: Re: reform party of canad
Reply-To: robinson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Jim Robinson)
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Distribution: can
Date: 23 Dec 92 17:32:47 GMT

alan pickersgill (alan.pickersgill@canrem.com) wrote:
> -=> On 12-21-92  18:06, Thomas Corbett wrote to All <=-

> TC> think they are the best thing to happen since sliced bread (brown of
> TC> course)or the scourge of the earth. I would like to know what your
> TC> opinions of the party are, either on specific issues or generally.

> OK, I'll bite.
> I think the Reform Party panders to people's fears by posing real
> problems and offering simpistic solutions. 

In other words, they do exactly what the other parties do. Which party
says: throw out the PCs, elect us, and all will be well? Yep, they all do.

> It has deliberately
> made itself attractive to bigots, which is not to say that everyone
> who would vote for it is a bigot.

Please elaborate on how the RP has made itself "deliberately" "attractive
to bigots". That is a strong statement and one should really provide some
evidence if one is going to make it.

> During the referendum campaign it
> showed itself to be quite comfortable with the politics of sleaze and
> deceit.

The RP "Mulroney Deal" ad was offensive. However, most of the pro-accord
ads were offensive as well - they either played to people's emotions and
fears (e.g., the kettle ad), or assumed we were incredibly stupid.
*Nobody* has anything to be proud about as far as campaigning in the
referendum goes.

> Like Social Credit, it will hang out on the fringe and then wither
> away.

My *current* prediction is that the Reform Party will take 20 to 30 seats
in the next election. How they do after that is up to how they perform in
Parliament.

I have heard one person describe the RP as being similar to liberal
Republicans (yes, they are a dying breed) in the US; I think that is a
fairly good description.

I am considering voting for the RP. I think they have a fresh attitude on a
number of issues and I am hoping that they will act as a "fiscal
conscience" after the next election, in a manner similar to how the NDP
acts as a "social conscience" now. 

Lastly, as a rule of thumb, if you think the NDP's policies are the
greatest thing since slice bread, you will not like the RP's policies. On
the other hand, it you like the PC's policies, you might want to consider
the RP. If you usually lean towards the Liberals, then it is less clear
cut.

-- 
Jim Robinson
robinson@mdd.comm.mot.com
{ubc-cs!van-bc,uunet}!mdivax1!robinson
From: marc@tanda.isis.org (Marc Thibault)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Do we really need the monarchy?
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 15:30:36 EST
Reply-To: marc@tanda.isis.org
Distribution: na
Organization: Thibault & Friends

In article <3mRTVB2w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> 
(Dave Shariff Yadallee) writes: 

>  In short, /i say let all the people under the God-conttolled domain come
> together and work together for the each ohters benefit, Not as a hierachy, but
> as first among equals.

        And anybody who can escape from that domain is welcome
        to come and visit us here, where no one is in control.

        Cheers,
                Marc

---
 Marc Thibault        |  Consulting Systems Analyst  |  The PC: Colt '45
 marc@tanda.isis.org  |  R.R.1, Oxford Mills,        |  of the information
 CIS:71441,2226       |  Ontario, Canada  K0G 1S0    |   frontier
 NC FreeNet: aa185    |                              |

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Newsgroups: can.politics
From: rickie@trickie.UUCP (Richard Nash)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re:  UI Benfits Cut
Date: 30 Dec 92 22:38:17 CST
Distribution: na
Organization: Not an Organization

In article <1992Dec29.112913.25691@ee.ubc.ca> jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison) writes:
>
>What I would say about new immigration policies: Canada should be a fairly
>open country (not like we'are short on space!), and shouldn't be too 
              ********************************
                              | 
                              |-  what is the criteria to determine
                                  spacing limitations?
                               -  rivers so polluted,  dumps so clogged,
                                  racial hatred so rampant, crimes so
                                  desparate?
With an out of control federal spending deficit,  how can Canada be the
place to responsibly accept more immigration?  Our government has
clearly illustrated their ineptness. 
 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Richard Nash              Edmonton, Alberta Canada T6K 0E8
 UUCP:                     rickie%trickie@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca
 


Newsgroups: can.politics
From: marky@engin.umich.edu (Mark Anthony Young)
Subject: Re: No Senate Elections
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 22:26:50 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: can

wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith) writes:
>In article <kJT=LvA@engin.umich.edu> marky@engin.umich.edu (Mark Anthony Young) writes:
>>The constitution specifically says that changing the method of selecting
>>senators requires a constitutional amendment (42(1)(b)).  Mulroney _can_
>>appoint whoever he chooses, including those that have been selected by
>>electoral processes.
>
>>But electoral processes require laws to govern
>>them, and such laws are arguably unconstitutional -- and would (I am
>>sure) be challenged in the courts.
>
>Are you saying that if a province were to hold a senate election by  
>following the standard electoral process, that the result of the election
>would be challenged simply because of the nature of the position being
>voted on is not "constitutionally correct"?
>
The election would be challenged _because_ there are people out there who
are opposed to an elected Senate.  The doubtful constitutionality of the
election is one weapon the opponents would use.

As for "standard" electoral processes, which set of spending laws is in
effect, provincial or federal?  The province would have to decide by law
in advance, or risk having a miffed candidate challenge the results on
_that_ basis ("My opponent spent too much money and that's why I lost.
Please, Mr Justice, make the premier put my name on the list instead of
hers.").  Once there is a law, it can be challenged in the courts ("The
province had no right to restrict my spending on this election, since it
would require a constitutional amendment to set rules for Senate 
elections").  Either way, the opponents have a weapon.  Since the goal is
to block Senate elections, any reason to challenge the process will do.

>I can't see how elections canada could could prevent a senate election in a
>particular province.  Maybe the resulting election would be "invalid" in
>election canada's eyes, but that's irrelevant, because if the provincial
>officials are satisfied that they have run a clean and fair senate election
>process, then they have the winner's name to put on the "list" to give to the
>bm'er.  If they want to make it a list, then they can a add few names
>out of the phone book.
>
The election would be invalid if the Supreme Court ruled that the election
constituted an illegal change to the way Senators are selected.  If the SC
struck down the laws under which Senate elections were held, there would be
no more Senate elections.  If adding a bunch of bogus names to the list
kept the SC from striking down the law, then hooray!  But it seems a trifle
transparent to me.

>>Of course, the court _might_not_ strike down those laws, either.  But 
>>then the election/appointment combination would still only continue at 
>>the will of the Prime Minister (since the power to legislate the 
>>appointment process would definitely be _ultra_vires_).

...mark young
From: jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison)
Subject: Re: ui benfits cut
Organization: University of BC, Electrical Engineering
Distribution: can
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 08:04:22 GMT

In article <199229.4112.13886@dosgate> "robert radford" <robert.radford@canrem.com> writes:
> JPM> What I would say about new immigration policies: Canada should be a 
> JPM> fairly open country (not like we'are short on space!)
>
>Actually, we are short of space. The fact that most Canadians live in a 
>narrow ribbon along the border is no accident. The rest of the country is 
>without jobs or infrastructure and will not support people except at a 
>subsistence level.
>

If people can live happily as far north as Edmonton, they can make do
in many other areas of Canada. The Kelowna / interior of BC is experiencing
rapid growth, and if Kelowna can sustain that growth, so can many areas of
BC. You may reasonably predict BC to double in population.

>In any case, you should read "Beyond the Limits" by Dennis Meadows et al 
>which notes that environmental impact is a function of the number of 
>people times their affluence times the adverse effects of their 
>technology. Under that definition, one Canadian does far more 
>environmental damage than a residents of most of the world and the number 
>of Canadians we have now does an incredible amount of damage. So what you 
>are arguing for is more pollution.
>

yeah, and your lot all think that humans are parasites on 'nature' and
shouldn't exist.

Pollution is a red herring, because most of your crowd call a lot of
things pollution, that aren't REALLY pollution. Canada's resources
can support generations of people at current living standards. And you also
mistake my intent: not to increase net world population, but to shift
some of it here, and let attrition reduce populations elsewhere, while
letting developed countries, who know how to manage growth, expand.


>---
> * Freddie 1.2 * Genie: R.L.Radford  Compuserve: 76354,535                  Other: Robert.Radford@canrem.com   
>--
>Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
>World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044


-- 
__________________________________________________________________________
 John Paul Morrison                     |  
 University of British Columbia, Canada |  
 Electrical Engineering                 |   .sig file without a cause
 jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca              VE7JPM |  
________________________________________|_________________________________
Xref: sparky can.politics:10997 can.general:6121 soc.culture.canada:9595
From: CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94)
Newsgroups: can.politics,can.general,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Legalized Discrimination in Quebec
Date: 21 Dec 92 18:36:09 GMT
Organization: McGill University

In article <1992Dec21.124110.1@uwovax.uwo.ca> 4224_5201@uwovax.uwo.ca (John LaRocque) writes:
>In article <21DEC92.12369098.0091@VM1.MCGILL.CA>, CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94) writes:
>
>
>> This is not due to a lack of imperialistic brainwashing from the
>> Ontario school system.  When I started school, the current Canadian
>> flag had not yet been adopted.  Outside the school, the Canadian Red
>> Ensign was flown (a red flag with the Union Jack in the upper left
>> quadrant and the Canadian coat of arms (itself made up of mostly
>> British and French symbols) on the right hand side).  Inside the
>> classrooms, no such compromise was made.  The flag flown there
>> was the Union Jack, right next to the picture of the Queen.
>> We learned to sing "God Save the Queen" in kindergarten, but
>> didn't get around to "O Canada" until grade 1.  For Victoria Day
>> (better known to us kids as Firecracker Day) we learned songs
>> with absurd pompous lyrics about the glories of the British Empire.
>> Fortunately, none of this had any lasting effect on me.
>
>Don't forget (drumroll, please) - the Maple Leaf Forever! When I first
>saw the lyrics to this song, I wanted to heave. My mom liked the tune
>but never understood the lyrics.

Fortunately, this one had gone out of fashion by my time.  I think it
had dawned on someone that celebrating Wolfe's glorious victory could
be seen as anti-French.  And though my education was at times
absurdly pro-British, it was not generally anti-French.  People
like Champlain and Talon were portrayed as great builders of Canada.
And guys like Radisson and Le Moyne d'Iberville seemed a lot more
exciting than those stodgy HBC clerks.

>But - this is not my country. Flying foreign flags                     gs
>on Canada Day is an obscenity. The Maple Leaf Flag is only 25 years old and
>already forgotten. Doesn't anybody care for Canada? I know that in my
>neighbourhood - that is no longer the case. Contrast that repulsive attitude
>with that shown by Quebecers on the fete nationale. Here you hear nothing
>BUT Quebec's heritage and Quebec's history. I guess it is toilet paper here
>in South Western Ontario, but in Quebec they RESPECT their history. Shame
>on my neighbourhood.
>
Bad news, John.  The SSJB had been getting a lot of flak for being
too ethnocentric, so one of the themes of this year's St-Jean
parade was the "cultural communities" (the approved term for "ethnics")
of Quebec.

Tom Box
CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison)
Subject: Where did all the left wingers go??? : -)
Organization: University of BC, Electrical Engineering
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 23:48:17 GMT


Except for one or two, all the socialists seem to be hiding... 
too bad, no one to beat up verbally any more :)

Seems the conservatives, objectivists, libertarians, 'Reagan Democrats'
rat pack (they know who they are) has scared them away (no great loss :-)

(PS, I think Chuck and Gerry should keep their bickering private, definitely
Bad Form, old sport. All this damn bickering whilst the bolshies are readying
the firing squad....tsk tsk)



-- 
__________________________________________________________________________
 John Paul Morrison                     |  
 University of British Columbia, Canada |  
 Electrical Engineering                 |   .sig file without a cause
 jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca              VE7JPM |  
________________________________________|_________________________________
Newsgroups: can.politics,can.general,soc.culture.canada
From: 4224_5201@uwovax.uwo.ca (John LaRocque)
Subject: Re: Pro British is not anti French (Was: Legalized ...)
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:36:12 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.141124.20349@bnr.ca>, rob@bcarh475.bnr.ca (Rob Sutherland) writes:
> In posting <1992Dec22.175553.1@uwovax.uwo.ca> the lifeform 4224_5201@uwovax.uwo.ca (John LaRocque) said:

>>No, but it is not nice to kick somebody when their down and say, "hahaha,
>>you lost 1759 and we're proud of it"...
>  ^^^      ****     ^^
> 
>    That battle was 233 years ago - the "We" and the "They" no longer exist.
> In any event, it was the British vs French, not CHQ vs Quebec.
> Besides, can't I admire a good military victory without "kicking" somebody?
> Some of my ancestors were shmucked along with Bonnie Prince Charlie.  It
> was, however, a good victory by the English.  I don't feel "kicked" if
> someone mentions the defeat and I most certainly don't feel "down".

I was referring to the lyrics of the Maple Leaf Forever - which stated in
the utmost terms how proud we should be of a military defeat which occurred
in 1759 and praised the victor in the utmost terms. As for Bonnie Prince
Charlie - I saw this amazing documentary in school full of blood and guts
- the battle of Culloden. Makes you almost choke knowing that there is
a place of the 401 called Culloden  (much crying).

>    Can't we all, just for once, look to the future and forget the past?

Heyyyy, I'm all for it. Rob my man - let's forget 125 years of Canadian
history and start something better.
 
> Rob the QHQ (Quebecois Hors Quebec)
> Rob Sutherland
> Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Ontario Canada 
> {...}!uunet!bnrgate!bcarh475!rob  
-- 

John P. LaRocque
vader@uwo.ca
University of Western Ontario
London, Ontario


"Urk..urk..."
"Apology accepted, Captain Needa", Darth Vader