HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 S&W Help Sought
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:56:46 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
##...It'd certainly ease a lot of minds unaccustomed
##to the thought of holstering  what essentially acts as a Condition
##Zero piece.  If I recall correctly, this was Massad Ayoob's only beef
##with the Glock.

#In these respects, how is a Glock different from a revolver? (Which 
#I notice _many_ police officers holstering with perfectly easy minds.)



The Glock is like a single action revolver that's always cocked.  

...or more like a revolver with a concealed hammer (like the S&W Centenial), 
that's always cocked, and cocks itself after each round, except after a
misfire, in which case it stays uncocked until you do something to
fiddle with it (open the cylinder, for example).

Glocks are tough, reliable, accurate, cheap to manufacture guns, and I like 
that about them, but I do not like the "safe action", aka the "essentialy 
like a long heavy single action trigger but no exposed hammer action".

Jim Del Vecchio
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: Citizenship
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:39:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: mimsy.9210061218.AA09644

The question's pretty much been answered on a federal level, but
in Missouri, you must be a US citizen to get a handgun purchase
permit.

One of the local rags wrote had a story on this last year - they
wanted to see how easy it was to buy a handgun and sent a reporter
to get the permit.  However, he was born in another country (to
American parents), but never became a US citizen.  They turned him
down.

Rob
From: mjalava@lk-hp-21.hut.fi (Mika Matti Jalava)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .38 cleaning brush for 9mm?
Date: 27 Sep 92 21:07:38 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology

In article <9209270431.AA16660@news.cis.ohio-state.edu> rwb@borg.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Berger) writes:

#Can a .38 cleaning brush (Hoppes) be used to clean a 9 MM?

Yes.

	Mika
From: keith@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca (Keith de Solla)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: reloading .308 Winchester
Date: 28 Sep 92 11:21:03 GMT
Organization: Canadian Microelectronics Corporation

I am interested in what people are using to reload .308 Winchester.
I will be reloading (in the near future) for casual target shooting
and whitetail deer hunting with Remington 700 BDL.  I have a few
questions:

1. I reload 9mm & .357Mag on a Lee Challenger press (gotta get me
a Dillon progressive...).  How much harder will loading rifle rounds
be?  Will this press stand up to low volume .308 reloading or will
I break it trying to resize the brass?

2. Any suggestions for powder and bullets (in addition to the info
I already got from Henry)?

thanks.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
| Keith P. de Solla        | "I don't enforce the law, I regulate |
| CMC                      |  human behaviour"                    |
| keith@orion.ic.cmc.ca    |    - Commissioner Scali              |
From: craig@osf.org (Craig Peterson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Need advice on semi-auto rifles
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:03:28 GMT
Organization: Open Software Foundation

#In article <9210021745.AA00228@spsgate.sps.mot.com> wloka@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com (Markus G. Wloka) writes:
##HK-91 308:  Roller system.  I have some concern on the HK's ability to feed
##when slightly dirty.  Is that concern unfounded?  

A demo film of H&K shows their weapons being dumped into the mud, mud
poured down the barrel and oozing out of every "pore".  They then let
most of the mud drain out of the barrel, and bangbangbang.  No
problem.

I've never had substantial problems with any HK product.  I have had a
slide lock back on a P7M8.  This was after ~2500 rounds, and was most
likely caused by buildup in the gas chamber.  It seems to be fine now
(although I think I'm going to send it back to H&K to have it looked
at -- lifetime warranty on the newer products).

Craig.
-- 
Craig Peterson, n8ino	craig@mainstream.com
PO Box 1120, Merrimack, NH  03054-1120
Unless otherwise noted opinions expressed are not those
of my employers.
From: STX@MSUS1.MSUS.EDU (Kevin Whyte)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Cor-bon safe in Glock?
Date: 3 Oct 92 20:37:55 GMT

I went to one of the local gun shops yesterday and saw (to my suprise) they
had some Cor-Bon ammo.  It was 35 bucks for 50 so I didn't buy any but
when I mentioned that I might buy some after I got paid to shoot in my Glock
the guy behind the counter said that thier gunsmith doesn't recomend it
because of excess pressure.  The data on the outside of the box stated that 
it pushed a 180 (155?) grain bullet at 1200 fps.  That is about 300fps
faster than the other ammo I have seen in this caliber.  Has anyone out
there actually fired this ammo?  Does it show signs of excessive pressure?

Thanks
Kevin
stx@msus1.msus.edu
From: mark@pdx.csd.mot.com (Mark O'Shea)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Sight picture and eyes
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:02:37 GMT
Organization: Motorola CSD, Beaverton, OR


In article <9210020511.AA07933@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com# davep@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com (David Post) writes:
#I wonder what is going on with my eyes.
#
#The past few trips to the range I have noticed the my dominant eye doesn't
#seem so dominant anymore.
#
#I seem to focus on the handgun's front sight ok, but often there are two
#target images.  I don't exactly need to work to make sure I have the right
#target, but it is distracting.  It is especially bad when there is motion in
#my field of vision.
#
#When I lower the handgun and my focus shifts to the target, I see one
#target.
#
#I'm not so sure what I am observing is abnormal, but something has changed.
#Has anyone else noticed this?

It is called aging ;-).

It happens to me also.  I find squinting my weak eye just a little clears
up the problem.

Mark O'Shea
Gun Control is the Ability to Hit Your Target
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SKS origins
Date: 27 Sep 92 11:27:57 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <Bv40q0.4xF@world.std.com> lucifer@world.std.com (Kevin S Green) writes:
#|	V stands for Vintovka, which I think is loosly translated into
#| rifle, but I probably am wrong!

#You are wrong. It translates _exactly_ as "rifle" (according to my 
#English-Russian, Russian-English dictionary)

The roots of the word are even similar: Vintoboi means screw or spiral
(as would be used in "rifling".)
  
                                              Frank Crary
                                              CU Boulder
Xref: sparky rec.guns:13704 talk.politics.guns:21635
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: .308 PISTOL
Date: 2 Oct 92 11:39:04 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.guns
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1992Sep30.174138.9923@news.columbia.edu> pes3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Paul Eric Stoufflet) writes:
##The BATF has all sorts of strange rules about what constitutes a pistol
##and what constitutes a rifle. They even tried to enforce a provision 
##that it was illegal to make a rifle out of a pistol by adding a long
##barrel and shoulder stock. The Thompson Center case finally put an end 
##to that nonsense. You still can't legally convert the other way without 
##following the stricter pistol manufacturing rules however. You've got

#Is this literally enforced?  IE; if one has a T/C pistol, and puts the
#long barrel and stock (in that order) on the receiver, one cannot then
#remove the stock and long barrel (again in that order) to restore the
#T/C to its original state?

This wasn't the subject of the Thompson Center case: BAFT claimed that
someone could buy the conversion kit, and put only the stock on. He
would then have an illegal, 10"-barrel rifle. Since the kit contained
all the parts necessary to make a short barrel rifle, BATF felt the
$200 tax should have been paid on all the conversion kits. The Supreme
Court ruled that Thompson clearly hadn't intended this use of the 
kit (they included _very_ clear warnings not to do this), and therefore
they shouldn't be required to pay the tax (specifically applying a 
legal principle that an ambiguous law should be interperted in favor
of the defendant if there was no criminal intent.)

                                                Frank Crary
                                                CU Boulder
From: megatek!hollen@uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: A bunch of 223 reloading questions
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:41:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: peg.HOLLEN.92Sep30082706
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

#>>>> On 28 Sep 92 19:39:12 GMT, cower@SSD.intel.com (Rich Cower) said:


Rich> I'm planning on loading up a bunch of 223 ammo for a Colt HBAR.
Rich> I'm not looking for extremely accurate ammo, reliability is
Rich> important.  I've found brass and bullets are inexpensive, TCCI
Rich> has once fired military brass and Win. 55 gr. FMJ bullets for
Rich> $54 per 1000. If anyone has any experience with this brass,
Rich> bullets or company - please let me know.

Once fired military brass (or any military brass) is going to require
that you rework the primer pockets.  Military .223 have the primers
crimped in and you will need to get an die set for your press to
remove this crimp.  I've used this a thousand times or more, but for
the life of me, the proper name of the die set escapes me.

I have used the Winchester 55 FMJ bulk bullets and they are OK, but
not very consistent.  If you are content with 2 to 3" groups at 100
yards they will do fine, they may even do better, bu don't count on
it.  They have up to .007" of difference in length from bullet to
bullet in the same lot.

Rich> Powder is not this easy. I can get Hodgson mil. spec powder - H108,
Rich> H872, H5010, H870 very inexpensively. I need about 8 lbs. for what I
Rich> plan to do, and these cost around $55 for a keg. I'd like to use
Rich> one of these powders, as the cost is right for what I'm trying to do. 
Rich> However, I can't find any loading data in my books (Speer or Nosler) for 
Rich> any of these powders in 223. Will they work? Which one might be best?
Rich> H335 runs about $78 per keg, will it do a good job with the 55 grain
Rich> bullet? I think the Nosler manual lists it as being most accuarte, but
Rich> they weren't using a Colt HBAR. TCCI has some powder they list as T-2202 
Rich> and T2208 for 223 and 308, anyone know what this stuff is? 

Two questions.  1) Have you developed a load for EVERY one of these
powders?  Do you know that they are appropriate, not only for .223,
but for your particular rifle?  2)  Why are you not considering W748.
In developing .223 ammo for both a bolt action and a Mini-14, I found
W748 to be a VERY accurate powder.

Rich> Oh - TCCI is in Phoenix, this brass is cleaned. Midway has the same
Rich> stuff but de-primed and crimp removed, for a bit more money. I'm trying
Rich> to do this as inexpensively as possible.

For all the extra time it will take you, I would go for the de-primed,
de-crimped stuff, but that is merely personal preference.

-- 
Dion Hollenbeck       UUCP: {uunet, ucsd, sun}!megatek!hollen
                      INTERNET:            hollen@megatek.com
Megatek Corporation  9645 Scranton Rd.  San Diego, Ca.  92121
From: mjalava@lk-hp-21.hut.fi (Mika Matti Jalava)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Silencer questions
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:04:45 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology

In article <1992Sep30.220955.2543@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
(my text about a silencer for DES deleted)
#Low vel, like standard vel .22 LR?
Yes, I usually shoot Fiocchi Standard Pistol cartridges through the
tube. Any subsonic (most normal cartridges are subsonic from a short
pistol barrel) is very quiet.

#How loud is it with various higher velocity .22 LRs?

The muzzle blast is very minimal with any .22 LR, but the bullet makes
a weird sound in the air if it travels at hypersonic velocities.

#It sounds like a very good design, that it is simple to clean
#and doesn't wear out.  Is there a brand name or something?

Not really, it is made by a gunsmith here in Finland. He makes those
silencers for any .22 LR (I haven't asked, maybe other calibers, too).
There are many smiths here that make silencers, some are better than
others.

Actually, if you just could get the bayonet part (or whatever it is
called, the part that connects the tube to the barrel) machined
somewhere, or if you use some other method to connect the tube, it
would be very easy to make a decent silencer yourself.  The materials
are not critical at least in .22 LR, and even the plates inside the
tube should be quite easy to make. An idea I have decided to try
sometime is to use two tubes, a bigger one and another that just fits
inside it. You would cut the smaller one in pieces and put the plates
between these pieces inside the bigger tube as in the pic:

outer tube->  -------------------------------- I
inner tube->  -------I-------I-------I...etc   I
plates ->            I       I       I         I

                     I       I       I         I
              -------I-------I-------I-------- I
              -------------------------------- I

BTW, much of the noise from my gun comes from the action, and of
course there is some pressure in the barrel when the breech opens.
Some guns are quieter, and mine gives practically no noise if I use
cartridges that are too weak to operate the slide.

I have heard .22 LR rifles with good silencers and subsonic cartridges
give sound like blowing a pea through a pipe. The firing pin clicking
was the loudest noise. I've never heard a pistol as quiet, but they
can be silenced pretty well, too.

Also another poster told about a .223 with a silencer not being too
quiet. Of course the bullet is much too fast, but you can reduce the
muzzle blast very much. That makes a big difference in the distance
from which you can hear the shot. Maybe useful if you have problems
with noise disturbing people nearby but don't really need an absolutely
quiet gun.

	Mika
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rifle Calibers for Long Distance Shooting
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:23:42 GMT
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi

In article <dlamber-021092013022@m248-99.bgsu.edu> dlamber@andy.bgsu.edu (Don Lambert) writes:
#Is this gun going to be sed for hunting or competition ?? Using 7mm will
#make you ineligable for some of the biggest 1000 yard matches. But a gun in
#.308 could be used across the course (200-600) and long range (600 - 1000).

Exactly which 1000 yard matches are you talking about? In the USA the only
long range match, that I know of, that limits you to .308 is The Palma which
is only fired here every 12-15 years. By the time you make the Palma team
you probably own a different long-range gun for every day of the week and
two for Sunday.  The only mid-range matches that restrict calibers are
service rifle matches and you won't be allowed to shoot a bolt gun in one
of them. If you are shooting match rifle you can use any caliber you want.
Now in UK and some other countries (Canada?) what you say is true.

You could, of course, get Jim Cloward or some other good bolt gun smith
to set you up with one action and a set of barrels in different calibers.
You could shoot .308 at 200-300 and .30-'06 at 600. Mid Tompkins did
this one year at Perry. It is "legal" under NRA rules too, as long as
it is the same action.

#As for .50 BMG, it's fun but the cost is still to high. 

Somewhere in the Highpower Rule Book it says you can't use a muzzle
brake or compensator (yes, we know about the HBAR). I would like
to see someone shoot a .50 BMG without a muzzle brake. (Call the
doctor! Ouch!)
-- 

Donald R. Newcomb
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet
From: bigdog@bones.et.byu.edu (Dan Canfield)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Ballistic Programs
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:39:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: alaska.9210061612.AA21360
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA

I was looking through the Sierra reloading manual last night and
noticed that they are making a bullet ballistics program for computers
now.  Does anyone have one of these and if so, how does it work?
Also, is there any of such programs available from an ftp site or 
shareware or the likes?  Ultimately, is it worth having?

Thanks for the info.

Dan Canfield
bigdog@bones.caedm.byu.edu

DoD #0071,RP90
'89 FJ1200
'89 Indy707
------------------------------------------------------------------
"Excuss me while I kiss the sky" - Jimi Hendrix
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mark@pdx.csd.mot.com (Mark O'Shea)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 45 for IPSC
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:39:23 GMT
Organization: Motorola CSD, Beaverton, OR


In article <pf!p92p.pauly@netcom.com> pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune) writes:
#In article <9209251816.AA08877@austlcm.sps.mot.com> jeffs@austlcm.sps.mot.com (jeff stump) writes:
##
##   I would like to hear from anyone shooting .45cal in IPSC. As a new 
##shooter, and reloader , I am developing a load for competition. 
##The requirement is minimum power factor of 175. I am using the following :
##
## Win brass
## Win LP primer
## Win 231 powder      ( Gold Cup Nat'l Match )
## 200gr. SWC

Just for your reference.  I shoot a .45 with the following load, a CCI LP 
primer, 5.0 grains of 700x and a 200 grain BBSWC.  It consistently shows up 
on the chrono at between 840fps and 910fps depending on the temperature.  
The lower the temp the slower the muzzle velocity.  This summer at the Oregon 
Open I got an average PF of 178.  The temp when I was squadded thru the chrono 
was ~ 80 degrees.  

The temperature is very important if you are going to cut the PF line close 
(as many of us do).  I would up my load to 5.1 or 5.2 grains if I were going 
to be chronographed in cooler weather.  You should take temperature into 
consideration when developing your IPSC loads.  BTW I shoot a stock (limited) 
gun so the lower speed (PF) is important to me.

DVC,
Mark O'Shea
Gun Control is the Ability to Hit Your Target
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: shooting with contacts
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:58:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: btree.1992Oct2.151327.7958
Organization: Brooktree Corporation, San Diego

In article <19241@smoke.brl.mil> gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes:
#
#In article <3101@voodoo.UUCP> voodoo!tomm@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Tom Mackey) writes:
##I was out sighting in some rifles yesterday and noticed after an hour or
##so that I was having a lot of trouble keeping both the scope hairs and
##the target in good focus.
#
#Something must be wrong with your scope.  The reticle should be exactly in
#the virtual image focal plane at reasonable distances, so both the target
#image and the reticle (crosshairs, red dot, whatever) should be in focus
#simultaneously.  Is there any adjustment for this?

I agree with Doug's diagnosis of a scope problem.  Of all the
scopes that I have, a Leupold Vari-X II is the only one that gives
me the problem that Tom described.  It's on a .223 rifle so there's
not a whole lot of recoil to disturb it.  And Leupold is supposed to
be a good scope!  The Tascos that I have on bigger calibers never
give this problem; even a B&L doesn't have the problem.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Are there restrictions on carry in public places
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:14:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: smoke.19238
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <199209281440.AA21774@tbird.cc.bellcore.com> sykes@donner.cc.bellcore.com (sykes,michael) writes:
#If you have been granted a permit to carry concealed weapons are there
#any places that you are not allowed to carry at all. (e.g. public places
#such as malls, sports arenas, etc.) I would figure the police would 
#give you such a hard time you might as well leave your weapon at home.

You really need to check the legal codes that have jurisdiction.
For example, regardless of whether or not you have a permit to carry
a handgun in the state of Maryland, it is illegal for anyone except an
on-duty law enforcement officer to possess a firearm on or near public
school grounds, in establishments where alcoholic beverages are served,
in public gatherings, etc.  And citizens in general are not permitted
to bring weapons into federal buildings.  I'm sure there are other such
legal restrictions.

As to the practicality, if you're carrying for reasons of general
readiness for a self-defense emergency situation, it would defeat the
purpose to go around unarmed.  If you are assaulted by police etc. for
no lawful reason, perhaps you can get their supervisors to straighten
out their policies after a few successful lawsuits.  Alas, that's what
it may take if you live in a police state.  If you're not prepared to
fight for your rights and really do not feel the need to carry for
self defense, then you might consider leaving your weapon at home just
to avoid hassles
	"... but it would be wrong."  - R. M. Nixon

#I have a CCW permit and I was wondering if I am justified in being a litte
#aprehensive about carrying in a public place, or am I overreacting.

It depends on the official laws and unofficial police policies and
local customs.  In some western states there is no real problem; in
some eastern US cities you can expect no end of hassles.  You have to
investigate your specific location.

#Sorry if this is a FAQ or irrevalent to this group.

Seems neither a FAQ nor irrelevant to me..
From: pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm: Which *not* to buy?
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:57:42 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Sep28.221436.11199@cs.rose-hulman.edu> rayma@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Michael A Ray) writes:
#
#I plan on using this for action/combat pistol shooting (not too  
#serious; no compensators, optics, etc), casual target shooting, and  
#home defense.  This seems to require higher capacity (12+) to compete  
#in the combat matches (I saw my first this past Sunday!).   

Definitely not required, but it sure helps...

#Unfortunately, I have quite small hands.  As an aside, are adjustable  
#sights a must for combat shooting?  I would like to get a new 9mm for  

Adjustable sights are definitely not required.  When running around a combat
course, you don't have much time to make click adjustments for windage and
elevation...

#less than $400 at a gun show and have listed below what I think are  
#contenders regardless of whether they are too big for me.  I plan on  
#going to the local store sometime soon and handling as many as  
#possible.

Well, around here, the P9/CZ75/EAA clones are popular, as well as the Sigs
and Berettas.  Probably far more popular are the Glocks, though.  If it were
me, I'd get a High Power, Sig, or 1911 (preferably a high-capacity frame).


-- 
DVC,
  Paul

Paul Yoshimune
pauly@netcom.com