HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas Ashers!
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 20:16:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.071944.4063@leland.Stanford.EDU>
jchien@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jennifer Crystal Fang-Chien) writes:
>...
>	But unfortunately, Lucifuge doesn't explore if there exist
>activites he hasn't tried, perhaps by asking Mr.Butler and 
>serious asking himself.  Instead he immediately assumes he's tried all
>activities.  I feel there's a need for deeper examination of the 
>issue by Lucifuge here.
>...

This is deceitful.

No one can try all activities, for there are too many.
There are a thousand and one possibilities, but that doesn't mean
that they all hold promise.

Implicit in that paragraph is the assumption that there is 
always at least 1 additional path which is better than that
last path on which you f*cked up or on which life f*cked you
up.

>	And what is wrong with logic? Are we to muddle through

Yes.  Let's try logic.  We can use simple discrete mathematical
logic to prove that the above indicated assumption is clearly false.

Shall I do it for you?  Okay.  Let's label each of the 1001 possibilities
by a distinct integer--the greater the integer, the better the
possibility.  The set of integers has a maximum.  Take the
path with the greatest integer; then there is no other path better
than the selected path.  Q.E.D.

>life without any reason or sense?  Why does logic equate with lack
>of feeling?  Or inflexible?

Because once the best path has been chosen and it leads to a dead
end, what's the point of going to another path?  This may sound
inflexible, but it's reality.  Accept it.

>> It doesn't do fuck all for me for instance...
>
>	Has one ever tried to understand what was meant, instead of
>ardently denying?  Considered and tried the approach?
>	No?  Of course it doesn't work for you.
>
>
>Jennifer
>

Wake up.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday,alt.personals
Subject: Re: To all my friends, I did it...
From: steiner@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu (jason "Think!" steiner)
Date: 22 Aug 92 18:02:10 EST

megazone@wpi.WPI.EDU (MegaZone23) writes:
> These groups should cover most everyone I talk with, so, I did it. 
> I passed the FAA practical and I'm now a private pilot. So everyone 
> who ws pestering me for rides, I can finally do it.
> 
> Hmmm, I think I'm actually happy... what a weird feeling. Wonder 
> how long  it'll last...

congrats! flying is one of the coolest things ever. i hope you have a
lot of fun.

--
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`
`,` The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, and the Data  `,`
`,`  is Life -- The Player's Litany, from _The Long Run_ by D.K. Moran  `,`
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,` steiner@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu `,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas Ashers!
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 10:15:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.035127.24634@udel.edu> awatson@pecan.cns.udel.edu (angela watson) writes:
>...
>	Many times there isn't a damn thing you can do to improve things...
>your life's condition isn't just determined by your actions, but also
>by the actions of those around you.

I couldn't agree more.

I have great regard for Ms. Mary Jacobs for her ability to pick herself
up after having been knocked down _hard_ in life.  But I think that she
is a bit naive to believe that many people can do as she has done.

Sometimes life just screws you over, and there's no way to recover.

>That doesn't mean you should just
>give in and end life, even when it seems like it can never get better.

But what would you think if, say, tonight a group of people from a
society into which you desparately want to be part of just shut
you out permanently, how would you feel?  Let's say that being a part
of that society was, for very good reasons, crucial to you.

Wouldn't that be justification enough to just "pack up" and "leave"?

>
>	Personally, I survived for many years on hatred and spite.

This is neither healthy nor productive.

>By
>staying alive, I could deprive those around me from having the few things
>I had.

If you are going to live like that, then what's the point of sticking
around?  I suppose that I'm an intellectual.  So, if life has no meaning and
no happiness, then what's the point staying for the duration?

What's the point of living for the sake being alive?  What's the point?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: borders@ms.uky.edu (Johnny Borders)
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas Ashers!
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 21:35:16 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

>This is deceitful.

So are all the shrinks. :)

>No one can try all activities, for there are too many.
>There are a thousand and one possibilities, but that doesn't mean
>that they all hold promise.

How are you going to know if you don't try? It's a simple truth. Not to say
that you HAVE to try them all before giving up, but you can always create
your own possibilities. :)

>Implicit in that paragraph is the assumption that there is 
>always at least 1 additional path which is better than that
>last path on which you f*cked up or on which life f*cked you
>up.

Life is a concept, not a tangible (not in this context anyway :). I am 
afraid that life does not fuck you over.. Things do not 'just happen that
way.' No one goes to bed one night, only to wake up buried in shit. 
Whether the wheels started rolling days or decades ago, they happened,
and you are probably to blame, in one way or another.
I always had a real problem with this, because it's not generally fair.
The real problem is that we all know it's not fair, but it goes on that way.
To be cheated out of something that rightfully belonged to you really sucks,
but it would have been up to you to prevent it. DO nothing and the world
will run all over you. THAT is how it is your fault. Sitting there. In a 
lifetime, doing nothing is worse then doing something drastic. :)
You make any number of choices in your life (back to when you were a few 
days old, probably). No all are innocuous. If your life stinks now, you
probably made a few mistakes way back near the beginning of the path you're
on now. Second Chance, Next Exit.

>Yes.  Let's try logic.  We can use simple discrete mathematical
>logic to prove that the above indicated assumption is clearly false.

Clearly false? My friend, if it were clear there would be no need to
discuss it.

>>life without any reason or sense?  Why does logic equate with lack
>>of feeling?  Or inflexible?

>Because once the best path has been chosen and it leads to a dead
>end, what's the point of going to another path?  This may sound
>inflexible, but it's reality.  Accept it.

This is NOT reality. What would be the point of going on at all? What would
have been the point of coming this far? Wise Man say: "He who stays in bed
is the only one with a fighting chance." Kind of wasteful, don't you think?
I'm not one to say 'you've been given,' so.. You have such wonderful
faculties, for whatever you like. To ignore that is um.. pathetic.
The Walk of Life is not engraved in stone. Things tend to change, you know?
THIS is reality.
-- 
*******************************************************************************
* The University of Kentucky is not responsible * AIX: Marketing or lunacy?   *
* for me, by reason of "Bureaucrats Syndrome,"  * "I never used anything by   *
* a crippling form of insanity.                 *  IBM that I liked."         *
Newsgroups: wpi.test,wpi.students,alt.suicide.holiday,alt.personals
From: megazone@wpi.WPI.EDU (MegaZone23)
Subject: To all my friends, I did it...
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 14:26:59 GMT

These groups should cover most everyone I talk with, so, I did it. I passed
the FAA practical and I'm now a private pilot. So everyone who ws pestering
me for rides, I can finally do it.

Hmmm, I think I'm actually happy... what a weird feeling. Wonder how long 
it'll last...

###############################################################################
# I have one prejudice, and that is against stupidity.  Use your mind, think! #
#Email megazone@wpi.wpi.edu  Moderator, WPI anime FTP site 130.215.24.1 /anime#
###############################################################################
From: dfong@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
Subject: angst and love and death
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:15:56 +1200
Reply-To: dld1@waikato.ac.nz
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand


 tis but a DRAFT... but It's fairly complete
  <Untitled_As_Yet>

Tell me : Why do I walk in the rain ?
 What could make me act this way ?
  Day after day, except possibly
  Maybe it's true what my heart feels for you.

 Rain falling into puddles,
  your effect on my mind, oh so muddled.
 Your face fills my sight,
  your image my mind.
 My heart fills with love,
  but could you fulfil my life ?
 You stand so close, and yet so far.
 The distance, short and long
  slowly breaking the heart
 Could you find the love in your heart,
  or will I just end up falling in the Dark.

 But all I get is silence,
  And in the twilight my heart breaks,
 But if I walk in the rain maybe no one will see me cry.

 Dropping off the edge,
  Into an endless fall
 Just for that love to be returned,
 I would I give it all.

 Life, Fate, what games you play
 People just walk up and then away
 And death comes and sits by your side
 Wondering if you want to go and play that night.

 So I bid you Adieu,
  as I walk along the road
 And only in my heart,
  do I whisper quietly
   "I love you"

       Douglas, August 1992

--         Douglas L. Davey                "...I'm going slightly bONkers..."
--       Dreamer@Waikato.Ac.Nz                 Third year B.C.M.S. Hacker
--     Email : dld1@Waikato.Ac.Nz           Donald ( Comp Sci Novell ) : dld1
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
Subject: gender stats (was: Reasons/seasons for suicide)
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 20:07:51 GMT

walsh+@pitt.edu (Alan M Walsh) writes:
>I'd be interested to know about any numbers regarding
>male vs female suicide rates, and any personal opinions about whether
>motives differ, and/or whether people's experiences match the numbers
>of male vs female suicide rates.  Personally I've known several more women
>than men who've attempted suicide, but all the successful ones have been male.

This information is somewhat old (about 15 years), but back when I was 
more intently studying suicide, the numbers I got were that, in the US,
women attempt suicide 3 times as often as men, but men succeed 3 times
as often as women.  I don't remember raw numbers, but they'd be long out
of date by now anyway.

This pretty much matches my experience, as well.  Not that I've known enough
suicides to be statistically significant, but I've known a lot of attempters.

It's my impression, though I have no proof to back this up, that among the
elderly the numbers are less out of balance.

I occasionally wonder if the attempt figures are really true.  Especially
among younger folks, where most of the failed attempts still happen, I would
expect there to be a much stronger social incentive for men to cover up
failed attempts than for women to do so.  It's just not the manly/macho/etc
thing to do....

Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: jchien@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jennifer Crystal Fang-Chien)
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas Ashers!
Organization: The Land of Earthquakes (Southern Cal)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 09:27:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.101507.12196@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.035127.24634@udel.edu> awatson@pecan.cns.udel.edu (angela watson) writes:

>>That doesn't mean you should just
>>give in and end life, even when it seems like it can never get better.
>
>But what would you think if, say, tonight a group of people from a
>society into which you desparately want to be part of just shut
>you out permanently, how would you feel?  Let's say that being a part
>of that society was, for very good reasons, crucial to you.
>
>Wouldn't that be justification enough to just "pack up" and "leave"?

	From the point of view of the person in the situation, yes.
However, I feel that this would be an unrealistic interpretation of 
any real life situation.  In what real situation could *all* of one's 
importance for life be placed on a group of people of some society, and for 
"very good reasons"?  usually there are other things one finds important
in his/her life, or that comprise of that life, but in a crisis, one
tends to forget about them.

>If you are going to live like that, then what's the point of sticking
>around?  I suppose that I'm an intellectual.  So, if life has no meaning and
>no happiness, then what's the point staying for the duration?
>
>What's the point of living for the sake being alive?  What's the point?
>

	I'm surprised that Dwight is still alive, then.  Perhaps
this is because as he says, his interest is "intellectual" rather
than practical.
	I feel the more interesting question here, would be,
"Why does one _need_ a reason for being alive?"

Jennifer
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com (David Butler)
Subject: Re: Thanks but I'm ok
Organization: =>ESKIMO NORTH (206) 367-3837 SEATTLE, WA.<=
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:04:35 GMT

In article <behrenss.713582004@hphalle6> behrenss@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Soenke Behrens) writes:
>alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com (David Butler) writes:

>>realism.  Realism would be to see the balance.

>Erm, excuse me ... balance?

>How about this explanation: Take a guy who is by nature naive and romantic.
>Confront him with reality. Voila ... you have a cynic.

      Buzzt.  Wrong!  If you get a cynic, then you have someone who is
so incredible biased and emotionally lopsided as to see an extremely distorted
inaccurate view of the world.  If you don't see both positives and negatives,
if you can't see good as well as bad, if you can't see hope as well as
frustration, then something is very wrong with your ability to perceive.
  
     Where do you get your perception of 'reality' anyway?  From the
newspapers?  News on TV?  News magazines?  Sheesh.  Pay attention to a
medium that only prints the exploits (for most of their content) of the
very worst 100th of a percent of the population and sure the world
can seem pretty crappy.  The actions of the worst person in every 10,000
will hardly give you realistic viewpoint on the world.

    Your own perceptions of the world tell you that reality is shit?
Psychological studies have shown that in almost everyone, once you have
a belief you see things that support that belief and ignore things that
don't.  Realism = cynicism falls in this category.  You may believe that
the equation is true, but it is hardly an accurate or 'realistic' view
of the world.

-- 
****************************************************************************
* Dave                          *               The Alpinist               *
* alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com *            DARE to be stoopid!           *
****************************************************************************
From: awatson@pecan.cns.udel.edu (angela watson)
Subject: Merry Christmas Ashers!
Organization: none 
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 03:51:27 GMT

	Reading this thread (parts of it anyway) gives me the urge to
run screaming through a plate glass window...

	Is all this bickering over who's fault it is that life sucks and
whether you can "choose" to feel "positive" about having life suck really
necessary??? Yes, life a bitch and then you die... big deal. We all 
know this. It's possible sometimes to cheer yourself up (partially
at least) by doing constructive or enjoyable things, or to just ignore
your pain and worries for a little while.  But unless the problems are
dealt with or go away on their own (wishful thinking), no amount of
"choosing" to feel better is going to improve your life in the long run.

	You can delude yourself into thinking that things are not as
bad as they seem in your life for a limited amount of time. Eventually,
something will force you to deal with the source of the problem. Just
because you think positivly doesn't mean things will get any better (or
prevent them from getting any worse).  You can't always chose what you
feel... if you think you can, you must have never lost anything or
anyone dear to you or you're deluding yourself.

	Thinking in terms of who's worse off than you are isn't _that_
much help.  Sure, there are millions of people in the world worse off
than me finacially, physically and mentally... but I don't use them
as comparisons.  The only person I'm truely worried about is me, since
I'm the one who has to live my life (despite the efforts of others to
live it for me). 

	Many times there isn't a damn thing you can do to improve things...
your life's condition isn't just determined by your actions, but also
by the actions of those around you.  That doesn't mean you should just
give in and end life, even when it seems like it can never get better.

	Personally, I survived for many years on hatred and spite. By
staying alive, I could deprive those around me from having the few things
I had. If I wasn't going to be able to enjoy life, I'd do my damnest to
make those who put me in that condition suffer.  If nothing else, I
stayed alive to prevent others from "winning" --  beating me so far into
submission that I dissapeared completely.  

	Existing just to make someone else's life a living hell (or
as much of one as possible) isn't the best kind of existance...       
but when events in life back me up against a wall and provide me with
no other way out, I'd prefer to go down fighting until I can't fight
anymore, _then_ I'll give myself the peace I deserve.


					AMW
					aka psycho kitten
 
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas Ashers!
Keywords: humbug
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 05:26:29 GMT

In article <1992Aug16.04139.14731@ms.uky.edu> borders@ms.uky.edu 
(Johnny Borders) writes:
>...
>No doubt, the thoughts and some sentiments in religion are very soothing.
>The promise of a better place after death is very comforting to many people.
>The thought of a harmonious world is very comforting to all, but I'm afraid
>the Bible is just a load of shit. The promise goes unfulfilled.

I won't go so far as to say that Christianity is a load of shit.

I am biased in favor of it.  There is no scientific evidence to
disprove or prove many religions; basically, one believes what
one likes.  I rather like the philosophy of "the sisterhood of
womankind"[1].

However, I often think that God simply doesn't care.  He may be there,
but he's not listening.  I suspect that many people have this view.
When one is feeling like sh*t, even knowing that there'll be a better
place is not too comforting when one has to live with the here and now.

That's what Christianity teaches.  We should tough it out and
live until we die of natural causes.  Suicide is supposed to be wrong.

Therein lies one of the problems with Christianity.  Who are Christians
to tell us what our pain is and whether it is tolerable?  Just
who the heck are they?

>>>   It all depends on your definition of success.  Everyone can sure
>>>live an ok, fairly comfortable life that way.
>
>>And can have 3.78 kids, a loving wife, a dog, a house, a divorce, a
>>custody battle, a retirement, a pension and death. Not my definition of
>>success. Sorry dude.
>
>How about a loving dog, the sun, the sea and the sky. Your kids are bound...

Funny, isn't it?  The ambitions of many depressed people are so
little and insignificant.  I suppose that's why they are depressed.

Angst is wanting so _very_ _little_ and _not_ even being able get that.

[1] My personal twist on a more familiar male-oriented expression
in the interest of equality of the sexes.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.suicide.holiday