HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: RUBAN@hartford.bitnet ("Timur Y. Ruban")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: On Bulgakov's anti-semitism (was RE: Re: Bulgakov"
Date: 8 Sep 92 20:21:00 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

From:         Ivan Covdy <covdy@SHEMESH.METAPHOR.COM>

>Oh, no!
>
>Again this shit about "enigma of the Russian soul" and that
>the foreigners will never-never-never-never-never understand
>the Russian culture because of its superiority.

Are you suggesting that without knowing the culture and language one
could fully enjoy and understand, while reading, "Otzy i deti" or "Eneida"?
Nobody said anything about superiority - just about necessity of knowledge
to understand, that's it.

>Talking about Bulgakov, I think that he should be expelled (post factum)
>from any honorable organization he belonged to, because it is a
>well-known fact that he was antisemitic :-)

I probably was out of the 'real world' for a while, 'cause I learn more and
more 'well-known' facts in this forum.  What are the evidences of Bulgakov's
anti-semitism?

>--
>  Ivan Covdy, covdy@shemesh.metaphor.com, METAPHOR Inc.,  CA,  USA
> *** People are looking for a Mind somewhere in the Universe,      ***
> *** because on the Earth they've been finding only the Stupidity. ***

Timur
From: covdy@shemesh.metaphor.com (Ivan Covdy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Farewell, Ms. Schwarz
Date: 11 Sep 92 00:34:26 GMT

in article <1992Sep10.161414.46011@watson.ibm.com>, bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) says:
[flame  deleted]
> In article <1992Sep10.102423.24745@cco.caltech.edu> patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz) writes:
[flame  deleted]

Since it's becoming too personal, could you, both, please,
use e-mail for your flames.

Thanks.

-- 
  Ivan Covdy, covdy@shemesh.metaphor.com, METAPHOR Inc.,  CA,  USA
 *** People are looking for a Mind somewhere in the Universe,      ***
 *** because on the Earth they've been finding only the Stupidity. ***
From: mmarkish@FEDS46.PRIME.COM (Mark Markish x2799)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Gogol and Jews; Pushkin and Finns
Date: 16 Sep 92 04:03:17 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

Quite in line with the discussions having been held on this newsgroup,
I have just been told about an encounter an 11 years old son of a friend
of mine (who is a Jew from Russia) recently had with his school teacher.

Speaking about the Russian literature, the teacher asserted that
"Gogol' was an antisemite". The boy raised objections, saying that,
first, at that time the relations among nations were a lot different
from what we are used to now, that's why a modern concept of "antisemite"
should not be applied to Gogol' and his contemporaries,
and, second, if we still decide to judge him, then we ought to accuse
Pushkin of a derogatory attitude towards the Finns (!), recalling his
reference to "Priiut ubogago chuxoncsa" in "The Bronze Horseman".

The teacher admitted that the boy was right. [This is the only part
of the story which has surprised me.]
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:7611 talk.politics.soviet:7931
From: lodzins@pilot.njin.net (Dean Lodzinski)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: English to Russian simple translation
Keywords: Translation,English,Russian,Simple,Favor,Help
Date: 9 Sep 92 02:05:12 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


Would anyone be willing to translate a simple English document into
Russian?  A friend of mine writes to a little girl in Moscow.  She is
about 6 years old.  The letter is very simple and short.  If someone
could translate it and mail/fax the translated document I would
appreciate it.  Please reply to me via Email.  Thanks a lot.
    Dean
-- 
=======================================================================
Dean Lodzinski         dean_l@turbo.kean.edu, lodzins@pilot.njin.net,
47 Mercury Circle      dean_l@support.kean.edu or D.LODZINSKI on GEnie
South Amboy, NJ        Dean Lodzinski on Hologram Inc., FNET Node 133, 
08879-2464  USA          at 908/727-1914 (1200/2400/9600)
From: muh@physics1 (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: The least nationalistic nation
Date: 10 Sep 1992 03:00:18 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics1.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep9.181643.8704@cco.caltech.edu> patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz) writes:
>
>To find a racist stereotype humorous is part of the self-hatred that
>comes along with being a victim of this stereotype.

I think you are absolutely wrong. Ability to laugh at youself is maybe most
important quality of a person, social group or nation. It help balance
excess of self-confidence. Ability to laugh at circumstances, however
grim they are help to live them over. Both features are well developed
in both Russians and, probably even more, in Jews. It may have something
to do with the fact that 60% of American comics, and lot's of Russian's
are Jews. It has _nothing_to_do_ with self-hatred. When you laugh at yourself
it very often help's to prevent other people laughing at you, too.

Another nation, I know about are Czechs. Most popular Czech-written novel
in Russia is "Good soldier Shveik". One of my Czech friends tired of praises
to this novel said once, that it illustrates feature of Czech nation, which
he thinks is bad: that they can not take anything seriously. I do not
think it's that bad. When man can be devoted to some thing, but at the
same time he can laugh at jokes about this, it just means that he is not
devoted blindly. It does not means that he is not devoted fully. That is
neccesity, protecting one from becoming a maniac.

About stereotypes, as we say, "w kazhdoj skazke est' dolja istiny", so when
you laugh at stereotype, you also laugh at that grain of bitter truth.
You also are trained to avoid felling to stereotype.

I must admit that I got a feeling living here, that Americans lack this
feature a little bit. You are so serious around here.

>are exactly the opposite of this. I'm sure there are such Russian men as
>the one Schwarzeneggar portrayed, but I haven't met any and I hate the
>idea of Americans thinking this character is typical.

And moreover only those men will be seriously offended by this film :).
(Well, judging from several episodes I saw.)

Yury
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy)
Subject: Re: On Bulgakov's anti-semitism (was RE: Re: Bulgakov"
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 13:33:09 GMT
Organization: Be. I am.

In article <88268@netnews.upenn.edu> sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin) writes:
>In article <SCS-L%92090815311665@INDYCMS.BITNET> "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:
>
>>I probably was out of the 'real world' for a while, 'cause I learn more and
>>more 'well-known' facts in this forum.  What are the evidences of Bulgakov's
>>anti-semitism?
>
> Remember "Sobachje Serdtse"?  It might be questionable, but I beleive
>that Shvonder was a Jew. Last name sounds Jewish and he was described
>as black haired. 
> So, Philipp Philippovich, absolutely nice and gorgeous person said once:
>"Ja by etogo Shvondera, chestnoe slovo, povesil by na pervom suku" -
>skazal Philipp Philippovich, vgryzajas' v krylo indushki." (Quotation
>from my  memory). 
>
> Isn't that a call to exterminate Jews? 
>
> Or take "Master & ..", what about criticist Latunsky? Very vile person.
> Or succesfully killed Berlioz? 
> How bad fin. director Rymsky looks.  And all that are just from the
>"top of my head". 
>
> And after all that you're asking about the evidences?
>
>>Timur
>
>
> S.B.

Sir, do you know the difference between typical in real literature
and political correctness?

FYI, it's possible to write about bad Jew - what's more, it's
possible to write about two bad Jews - or, I'm reluctant to say that,
three bad Jews - without being antisemitic.

And it's possible do not write about Jews at all - or do not write
at all - or be illiterate if that matters - and be antisemite.

It's all in angle of vision, you know.

So let's stop all that bullshit.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Subject: Re: et tu, Pushkin
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1992 17:47:20 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.11 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In  <9209090638.AA16664@feds46.Prime.COM>  mmarkish@FEDS46.PRIME.COM (Mark Markish x2799) writes:
> Big, big news. It was not only Gogol, who was a pervert, but also Pushkin,
> as Helen Iswolsky clearly attests to in her _Soul_of_Russia_, p.72:
>
> " Pushkin was gay, lighthearted, and dissipated, but his destiny, the
> " story of his life and death, is marked with a mysterious beauty and
> " sadness."

That's what you call "big, big" news ? Hhhmm.
It is quite obvious that most of Russians are homosexuals - it's quite
customary for Russians of the same gender to kiss and hug.  Not only
that, but Russians engage in sexual child molestation quite on
a systematic basis - they kiss and hug their children - some almost
every day !

Oleg
From: burshtey@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Alexander Burshteyn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Who Is Afraid Of Patricia Schwarz?
Date: 11 Sep 92 21:29:44 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Sep10.223803.25232@beaver.cs.washington.edu> gmfich@cs.washington.edu (Greg Fichtenholtz) writes:
>
>Gospoda! 
>After reading soc.culture.soviet for a number of days I put all the 
>pieces of a puzzle together and I have come to a conclusion that
>PATRICIA SCHWARZ   and  HASAN  MUTLU  is THE SAME PERSON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>I mean if you think about that for a while , I am sure you will say the same 
>thing.

Well, not exactly. Certainly, there are similarities, but there are differences
too, as one may notice even without a close textual analysis.
Actually, though, I strongly suspect that both are NOT even PERSONS, but
in fact, well-developed computer programs. If that is true, then I must say
that the P.S. program is much better developed than the H.M. program. However,
just in case this is not true, I have to apologize to Ms.Patricia Schwarz for
suggesting publicly that she is a computer program. If anything, she certainly
seems more human than Has-Been Motley who, in this group, I believe,
is unanimously considered an idiot and putz.


Alex Burshteyn
burshtey@eniac.seas.upenn.edu

********************************************
Even a fool can understand a work of genuis.
But in a totally different way!

    Stanislaw Jerzy Lec, "Uncombed Thoughts"
********************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: krainev@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: COBOK
Date: 13 Sep 92 19:55:33 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services



             C O B O K  is the greatest achivment of socialism.






In article <Bs92qB1w165w@halcyon.com>, mashina <novost@halcyon.com> writes:
       This word was introduced in Russian slang in mid 70's - early 80's,
   when Russian tourists searching for well-traded goods in foreign
   countries were easy-to-recognizable by their behavior.
       COBOK-features:
   1) Loud discussions in the front of shop windows.
   2) Using fingers to attract their own attention to the best valued
      goods (TOBAP).
   3) Public appearance in groups only (Good reference: "Dano dobro na
      striptiz")
   4) Anyone in this group (I mean news-group) can add more positions
      to this list. 
> 
>   As I am somewhat new to some of the discussions going on here at
> this BBS (although I am enjoying it), I am very confused about 
> the use use and meaning of the word sovok and ex-sovok.  So could
> some sovok be tolerant to an idiot and explain it to me.
>   Even one person signs his post with "1917 Sovok St.".
> Chto ehto takoe?  Sovsem ne ponimayu.
> 
>                   Jeff

     What chto takoe COBOK !

 Sincerely, Arkadi Krainev.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz)
Subject: Re: The least nationalistic nation
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 17:32:50 GMT

>Another extreme (and equally dangerous) is to assume that understanding another
>culture is very easy, requiring just a couple of movies like "Red Heat" and
>"Dr Zhivago". I contend that it takes considerable amount of research before
>a person can claim an understanding. Those who assume otherwise tend to
>produce "razvesisty-ye klyukvy" as a case likely to be with a book on Russian
>culture one of netters here threatens to write.

>Oleg

Please don't accuse me of such disrespect. As I have mentioned before,
I am writing this book with a Russian woman who is quite the expert
in Russian culture. Her father was a renowned Russian linguist, and she
grew up in the center of Russian cultural life of the last thirty-five
years.

American culture is picked at and analyzed by everyone, also, but we
don't shout about it so.

You shouldn't punish someone for sincere interest, and for saying that
some things are universal between cultures. Every culture has zeks.
Certainly not as many as Russian. But I hope someday that pain will
subside for you, and you can face life with less anger.

Maybe you need me so that you have somewhere to send your anger.
But at least be angry with accuracy, not misunderstanding. I repeat,
I would never take it upon myself to "explain" Russian culture. I am
working with someone who is an expert in her own right. She's teaching
me a lot, but it will never be enough to replace her expertise in
this project. 

-patricia

PS I can see how "Red Heat" and "Dr. Zhivago" would make you angry.
Especially "Red Heat" which I think is definitely racist against Russians.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: viznyuk@physics.ucla.edu (Sergei Viznyuk)
Subject: Re: Re: Bulgakov
Organization: UCLA Department of Physics
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 21:42:44 GMT

In article <SCS-L%92090815140104@INDYCMS.BITNET> "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:
>From:         Igor Belchinskiy <bil@BURKA..AIX.KINGSTON.IBM.COM>
>
>>Or how can one read M&M without knowing Bulgakov' biography
>>or Russia reality in thirties?
>>Or without knowing history of France in XII(?) century,
>>"albigoitzy" (no dictionary at hands)?
>
>Great topic for the discussion!!!  Actually, let's talk about "albigoitzy".
>Probably you are reffering to the hypothesis, that Koroviev/Fagot was 'written'
>in some ways from the one of knights of "albigoytzi".  There was dome some
>research on backgrounds of Master, including an article in one of old "Context"
>issues. I think we brought some of this issues from USSR, so I'll try to
>take a look and post briefly some ideas.

  Does anybody know the meaning of Bulgakov's words about
Fagot: "rytsar', kotoryi odnazhdy neudachno poshutil.." ?
  And who were the prototypes of other members of Voland's suit ?

S.V.
From: dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM (Dmitri Leschiner)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Bulgakov
Date: 12 Sep 92 00:49:28 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

In article <1992Sep10.110748.25328@cco.caltech.edu> patricia@cco.caltech.edu
 (Patricia M. Schwarz) writes:
>
>But...maybe your whole life has been warning people about communism
>and now there's nothing left to warn about.
>
>You are safe. Relax. Stop listening for footsteps in the hall at 3am,
>because they aren't going to come any more.
>

What?? How do you know!?

P.S. Patricia, that's a secret.
They are to and will.
From: dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM (Dmitri Leschiner)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: something quite familiar
Date: 7 Sep 92 04:31:52 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

>From: "Patricia M. Schwarz" <patricia@CCO.CALTECH.EDU>

>it hurts me when Russian
>friends drop the occasional semi-antisemitic comment and also when some
>of my Jewish Russian friends who emigrated are so happy to predict doom
>for Russia.

Well, I have at least one friend (half-Jewish, half-Russian, in fact),
who combines the both: he is a Jew-hater (in a sense) and Russia-hater
as well. I just wondered, what's more. Well, when he left Russia, a while
ago, he was in better shape, I think(?). Of course, he disagrees.

D.
From: SCATTONL@snycenvm.bitnet ("Linda H. Scatton")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: The least nationalistic nation
Date: 8 Sep 92 16:08:29 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>
Organization: State University of New York - Central Administration

Does the contention that it is impossible to understand another culture unless
you are born into it mean that it is pointless for scholars from one culture to
study another culture (i.e., its arts, customs, attitudes, beliefs, history)
and to try to help other "outsiders" understand it, too?   This is the sort of
xenophobic reasoning that discourages *anyone* outside a culture from attemp-
ting to penetrate it and ultimately retards human knowledge and progress.  Pure
-and totally objectionable- nonsense, to my mind.
                                                    Linda Scatton
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: "democratic" Estonia
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 07:20:14 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.150244.27136@physics.ucla.edu> viznyuk@physics.ucla.edu (Sergei Viznyuk) writes:
>In article <1992Sep4.072539.3173@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>>>
>>>I guess it's not much better for Estonians. Fascist government
>>>separating citizens by blood will eventually start seprating them
>>>by political attitudes. Hitler's example is well-known.
>>>
>>You seem to not know anything about Estonia. 
>>The first free elected governemet in the area of former SU you
>>call faschist!!!??? I call that soviet propaganda
>>of the old style. It seems to be well and kicking.
>>To mix into this even Hitler is more ridiculous.
>>
>
>  "free elected" goverment of Estonia ? Are you kidding,
>Jarmo ? The "elections" in Estonia where 40% of population
>is prohibited to vote are as "free" as those in South Africa
>in 60-ies. And Estonians are going to repeat this show soon.
>Estonia IS a fascist state by all parameters.
>
>S.V.

C'mon dear Serega. The blacks in South Africa are not immigrants
like the russians in Estonia who have come to Estonia mostly
 after the annexion/occupation of Estonia. It is a bit different thing.
I think if we compare with South Africa we could better say that russians
 were earlier "the
whites of Estonia" and the estonians themselves "the blacks of Estonia."
Now the former "whites" of Estonia, people who came with SU colonialism
to Estonia are afraid to loose their status.
 That is more
in question.
The same way the whites of South Africa are afraid of the power shift.
Even if the whites have come to South Africa since centuries when
the russians came to Estonia after 1945 mostly, after the occupation.

You are however clever to find comparisons Serega.
I am waiting for the next one.
Regards,
Jarmo Ryyti
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Organic Russia
Date: 6 Sep 1992 22:54:34 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


To Mark Markish and his story about the plough in 19th Century
Russia:
hopefully the soviet citizens do not have quite the same outlook
as perhaps in the 19th century (certainly seem to be interested
now in importing the "plough" of Ameri-business.
....And to look at traditionally wasteful American farming 
methods and then compare them with the efficiency of say
a Chinese produce garden....well shucks I guess we over here
don't rilly lak the shape of them thar plows neither...
-- 
            Mike Romano     Univ. Calif. Berkeley
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: leonid@tuna.uchicago.edu (Leonid Andreev)
Subject: Re: Cultural differences (Was Re: Who Is Afraid Of Patricia Schwarz?)
Organization: University of Chicago CILS
	<LEONID.92Sep11150746@tuna.uchicago.edu>
	<1992Sep14.132949.39174@watson.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:13:41 GMT

Oleg Vishnepolsky writes:

>   leonid@tuna.uchicago.edu (Leonid Andreev) writes:
>   > Surely I am. As all the educated people know, Andreevs are one of
>   > the best noble families of Russia. Off course I am proud of bearing
>   > such an aristocratic name like this.
>
>   How can one be proud of something one did not earn ?

Are you *SERIOUS*???
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Leonid S Andreev,    Center for Information and Language Studies,  |
|  (312) 955 5012        University of Chicago, Chicago IL, 60637.   |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM (Dmitri Leschiner)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Romanian language
Date: 7 Sep 92 02:24:18 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

>Date:         Sun, 6 Sep 1992 19:10:17 PDT
>From: "Alex Allister Shvartsman, EMF,
>              LKG2-2/T2" <alex@TOOK.ENET.DEC.COM>


>#  After annexation by Romania, the script was changed to
># Latin and remained such until Moldavia's re-annexation
># by Uncle Joe i.e. during 20 years.

>Wrong again! You might find it educational that the alphabet in the entire
>Moldova (East and West) and the alphabet in the Stalin's Autonomous
>Moldavian Soviet Socialist Republic (i.e., much of Transnistria) were one
>and the same -- Latin! It was not until late 1930s that the alphabet in
>Transnistria/AMSSR is changed to Cyrillic. This was done as a precursor to
>Stalin's re-annexation of East Moldova.

It apparently has nothing to do with (allegedly planned) re-annexation.
It was a common communist policy in 20-ies of establishing Latin script
for all non-Slavic nations in USSR (even those who already had either
Cyrillic or Arabic one). In another drastic shift of what probably was
the first precursor of "new national policy", resulted in 1940-ies in
mass depotations of nations and harsh promoting of "Russian patriotism"
(communist-style), bolshevics suddenly changed all those new scripts to
Cyrillics in 1938. It was not applied to Moldovans specifically, but to
all nations uniformly. At that time Hitler-Stalin pact was not even in
project (except in Stalin's mind??) yet.

D.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:7555 talk.politics.soviet:7895
From: avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: ESTONIA and human rights (Was. "de
Date: 13 Sep 1992 19:51:28 -0400
Organization: Berkeley Software Design
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net

/^From:.*\.fi/K

They're hopeless. I'm going to miss Mutlu.

--vadim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: linnan@niksula.hut.fi (Matti Linnanvuori)
Subject: Kto zhenshtshina tvojej zhizni?
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Distribution: soc
Date: 5 Sep 92 19:30:19


  Plennik vozvrashtshajetsja iz lagerev posle 25 let. Jego sprashivajut:

- Kto zhenshtshina tvojej zhizni?

- Ljubov Stalina.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet