HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tom@ulysses.att.com (Tom Smith)
Subject: Re: The Floating Rose routine
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 20:26:00 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ

fmah@mta.ca (Frank) writes about the Floating Rose:
 
|> Where can I get it!!!!  I've been looking in my catalogs and no one seems
|> to have it!

I am pretty sure that Tannen's carries this.
1-800-77MAGIC

Tom Smith.
tom@ulysses.att.com
From: WVOSS@novell.com (Wes Voss)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Help!
Date: 11 Jan 93 22:48:25 GMT
Organization: Novell, Inc.

In article <1993Jan11.150317.4964@memstvx1.memst.edu> gouldh@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:
>From: gouldh@memstvx1.memst.edu
>Subject: Re: Help!
>Date: 11 Jan 93 21:03:17 GMT
>For the person asking about doves, also be aware that doves often
>create an allergic reaction do to the dander in the feathers. 


Boy, I didn't know that so magic was so bad for your health... <G>
Oh well, like they say, when laboratory rats keep dieing, it's time
to get healthier rats... <G>

Wes

--------------------------------------------------
Wes Voss
Internet: wvoss@novell.com
Standard Disclaimer: Yeah, these are my opinions,
and no one elses... You know the rest...
--------------------------------------------------
From: pbaker@tbag.tscs.com (Pete Baker)
Newsgroups: alt.magic
Subject: Re: Penn & Teller
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:44:28 EST
Organization: Tampa Bay Amiga Group

On Tue  5-Jan-1993 11:41p, Wes Voss wrote:

WV> I was very disappointed by the champagne trick... Good to see I wasn't the
WV> only one. I expected something funny...

I think they made a prudent point.  P&T are avid and outspoken when it comes
 to drugs and alcohol.  they are 100% against it!

The point in case you missed it was that you can not escape the inevitable
 forever.. If you are going to drink and drive.. someone WILL get hurt!

--- Via UCI v1.02 (C-Net Amiga)

            _
Pete Baker { }
          ( V-)
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
pbaker@tbag <or was it> tbag!pbaker@uunet.uu.net <maybe> pbaker@tbag.tscs.com
Newsgroups: alt.magic
From: presto@bach.udel.edu (Jason Y Nocks)
Subject: Re: The Floating Rose routine
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 22:30:50 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.202600.22936@ulysses.att.com> tom@ulysses.att.com (Tom Smith) writes:
>fmah@mta.ca (Frank) writes about the Floating Rose:
> 
>|> Where can I get it!!!!  I've been looking in my catalogs and no one seems
>|> to have it!
>
>I am pretty sure that Tannen's carries this.
>1-800-77MAGIC
>

There is a video (plus materials necessary to do the effect) put out by Kevin
James. The video and materials goes for $60. I think p&h is $3.50, but I'm not
sure.
You can order the video directly from Kevin James at:
	Kevin James
	9682 Katella
	Anaheim, California 92804
	(714)520-4381
	(714)535-5237 (FAX)

Hope that helps,
-Jason
-- 
| presto@brahms.udel.edu       | A senior E.E. at the U of D with a side order
| presto@freezer.cns.udel.edu  | of stage and close-up magic. The views
| nocks@snow-white.ee.udel.edu | expressed are exclusively my own (etc).
From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Reply to Marc Talbot #2
Date: 6 Jan 1993 23:00:32 GMT
Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com
In-reply-to: spl@ivem.ucsd.edu's message of 6 Jan 1993 14:43:50 GMT

In article <1ier76INNjm9@network.ucsd.edu> spl@ivem.ucsd.edu (Steve Lamont) writes:
   In article <1993Jan6.041700.17143@nuscc.nus.sg> matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (.) writes:
   >spl@ivem.ucsd.edu (Steve Lamont) writes:
   >: In article <lkk1afINN95j@news.bbn.com> ingria@BBN.COM writes:
   >: >In article <1i8bsgINN29q@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> kar5@po.CWRU.Edu (Kevin A. Roll) writes:
   >: >   So why the hell didn't they kill HIM to shut him up???
   >: >
   >: >That's just the sort of question THEY want you to ask...
   >: 
   >: He's dead, isn't he?  Do we *really* know it was through "natural
   >: causes?"
   >: 
   >Who told you he's dead?

   Paul McCartney.

I think you mean Brian Jones.
--
-30-
Bob Ingria
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy:13966 alt.atheism:25738 talk.religion.misc:25907
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: _Jesus: A Life_ by A.N. Wilson
From: system@codewks.nacjack.gen.nz (Wayne McDougall)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 18:13:53 NZST
Organization: The Code Works Limited, PO Box 10 155, Auckland, New Zealand

tp0x+@cs.cmu.edu (Thomas Price) writes:

> (someone)
> >: >   "+ Jesus' prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane, asking God to spare
> >: >      him from the cup of death but nonetheless bowing to God's will,
> >: >      is a literary creation. If Jesus prayed while his disciples
> >: >      slept, who jotted down a transcript of the conversation?"
> 
> (me)
> >: An alternative explanation is divine inspiration, which is supposedly the
> >: method of composition of the book. Consequently, this observation is
> >: not independently significant: it is subordinate to the result of inquiry
> >: about inspiration, and can add nothing nor take anything away from
> >: that debate.
> 
Another alternative explanation I have seen is that Jesus told the disciples
what he prayed [after the resurrection].



-- 
  Wayne McDougall, BCNU

"I hate quotations." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
From: cmort@NCoast.ORG (Christopher Morton)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz
Reply-To: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 13:04:30 GMT
Followup-To: alt.conspiracy

As quoted from <1i8t6hINNc4m@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> by cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs):

> 
> Does anyone out there know what is happening with Bo Gritz since the
> election?  If you can share anything with me, please send me email.

Maybe the "black (multinational) helicopters" came to get him on December
19th.... 

Sorry, just couldn't help myself.  Just LOVE a good looney conspiracy 
theory.... :)



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  

"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?" 
------------------------------------------------------------------  
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy:13705 alt.activism:20022 alt.society.civil-liberty:7239 alt.individualism:6161 alt.censorship:9819 misc.headlines:7385 soc.culture.usa:9445 misc.activism.progressive:9767
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Bo Gritz vs Chip Berlet
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:50:49 GMT

In article <1isua5INNhec@im4u.cs.utexas.edu> lwb@cs.utexas.edu (Lance W. Bledsoe) writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.090412.20205@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>Given that Gritz has been wrong about everything that is checkable,
>>what makes you think he's truthful about this one?  Especially when
>>Gritz has *no* evidence of his claims.
>
>I'm sorry, you're wrong.  I've seen MUCH evidence of Bo's claims.  With
>reguard to the CIA drug running charges; I have a videotape of Bo Gritz
>interviewing Burmese drug lords that flatly identify their contacts in
>the US as former CIA and state department officials.

And what evidence do you have that the person he interviewed was a 
"Burmese drug lord"?

>>Gritz is just a con-man trying to get money out of you the way he
>>got money out of Ross Perot.
>
>I don't think that Bo Gritz ever go any money from Perot.  

False.  Do a database search.  Perot was quite proud of his support
for Gritz before he became a presidential candidate.

>And if
>he did it was probablly to help find POWs in Southeast Asia.

Well, that's what Gritz told the families of MIA's that he ripped off,
yes.  Then he had a nice cock-and-bull story about how he "infiltrated"
across a river border that didn't exist, found actual "camps", and
as evidence produced "human remains" that turned out to be pig bones.

Gritz is a con-man, and a dangerous one at that, given his anti-Semitism.

>The problem is not people like Gritz, who dedicate their lives trying to
>keep us all free, but people like you that spread misinformation.

And what misinformation is this?  You're talking from bald assertions
and faked videotapes.  I have facts on my side.  Look up this stuff.
Use your goddammed head.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
never shout movie in a crowded firestation
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy:13956 alt.atheism:25686 talk.politics.misc:67176
From: jeon@carson.u.washington.edu (Sangyong Jeon)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.atheism,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: contradictory nature of free will and omni-anything
Date: 11 Jan 1993 23:03:25 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu
Keywords: Signs

In article <L#g=PfC@engin.umich.edu> ingles@engin.umich.edu (Ray Ingles) writes:
>In article <1infdrINNkl1@shelley.u.washington.edu> jeon@carson.u.washington.edu (Sangyong Jeon) writes:
>>In article <0Yf=kJB@engin.umich.edu> ingles@engin.umich.edu (Ray Ingles) writes:
>>>In article <1ilj5cINN7dg@shelley.u.washington.edu> jeon@carson.u.washington.edu (Sangyong Jeon) writes:
>>>[discussion of why omniscience denies free-will deleted]
>
> Ah. I think I see part of the problem; I am not necessarily arguing for
>a creature that is absolutely omnisicent; just one that is capable of
>seeing the future perfectly, and this not conflicting with free will.
>

I think you are mistaken. Take

>..a creature that is absolutely omnisicent; just one that is capable of
>seeing the future perfectly, and this not conflicting with free will.

What is the condition for some body or being to see something "perfectly"?
Suppose you are trying to go to a friend's house. How do you know
the house is where it was last time? Of course you saw it, say a month
ago, so it probably still where it was. But you can't absolutely,
perfectly sure, can you? There might have been an earth-quake, fire, etc.
The only way you can know something perfectly, is equivalent to saying the
thing you know cannot vary in time, or can vary in time but you have to be
looking at it all the time.
So in this sense at least there is no difference between an absolutely
omni-scient being and a being who can see the future perfectly, either way
that means human affairs are (fixed) paintings on the 4-d manifold.
So your statement
>
>This would be indistinguishable (from our point of view) from a 'completely
>omniscient' being.
>
is absolutely right.

>
>>There is no branching point.
>>Only when there are branching points, we can start to think about free
>>will.
>
> Why? When I have a choice, there may be several possible branches...
>but I only take one. The others are merely potential branches that
>were not taken.
>

The point is that we mortals follow time linearly. If there is no such
thing as omni-scient being, you are right, there may (not must, for we
cannot distingush the "illusion of free-will and actual free-will)
actually be branching points. But if there exists an omni-scient being,
the feeling that we (you and I) had a choice is an illusion because that
feeling itself must also be a speck on the painting known to the
omni-being.

Opinions here are mine and mine only.
jeon
From: spl@ivem.ucsd.edu (Steve Lamont)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Reply to Marc Talbot #2
Date: 6 Jan 93 01:36:04 GMT
Organization: University of Calif., San Diego/Microscopy and Imaging Resource
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivem.ucsd.edu

In article <lkk1afINN95j@news.bbn.com> ingria@BBN.COM writes:
>In article <1i8bsgINN29q@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> kar5@po.CWRU.Edu (Kevin A. Roll) writes:
>   So why the hell didn't they kill HIM to shut him up???
>
>That's just the sort of question THEY want you to ask...

He's dead, isn't he?  Do we *really* know it was through "natural
causes?"

							spl


-- 
Steve Lamont, SciViGuy -- (619) 534-7968 -- spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu
UCSD Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UCSD Med School/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608
"Personally, I don't care whether someone is cool enough to quote Doug
Gwyn--I only care whether Doug Gwyn is cool enough to quote." - Larry Wall
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.individualism,alt.censorship,misc.headlines,soc.culture.usa,misc.activism.progressive
From: pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce)
Subject: Hateful ARF on "'Hispanic' barbarians"
Summary: Another un-American quote from ARF
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 93 16:36:24 GMT

In article <C0C66B.96w@ddsw1.mcs.com> arf@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Jack Schmidling) writes:
 
> To believe that multiculturalism somehow improves our 
> society is just plain liberal mush.  What sort of blessing 
> is it to force our police officers to hide from "Hispanic" 
> barbarians when they should be out on the streets?

Reprinted *without* permission from the Los Angeles Times, Book Review,
Sunday, January 3, 1993, p. 9:

-----------------  REPRINTED REVIEW  ---------------------------------

by Charles Solomon

_Bigotry, Prejudice and Hatred: Definition, Causes and Solutions_,
edited Robert M. Baird and Stuart E. Rosenbaum (Prometheus Book:
$15.95; 238 pp., paperback original). This collection of articles and
excerpts drawn from diverse sources is the latest installment in the
"Contemporary Issues" series from Prometheus. The selections range from
Jean-Paul Sartre's withering portrait of a French anti-semite to
discussions of the effort to enforce politically correct speech on
American college campuses. In addition to racism, sexism, religious
bigotry and homophobia, the authors address problems of
multiculturalism and the attempts to extend the definition of prejudice
to include the categories of "weightism" and "lookism." Not
surprisingly, the book offers no easy answers, but it does provide a
starting point for discussions of this insidious problem.

-------------------  END OF REPRINTED REVIEW  ------------------------



Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
From: squirrel@world.std.com (Publius)
Subject: Re: _Jesus: A Life_ by A.N. Wilson
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 06:17:48 GMT

In article <C0G7rM.4oF.1@cs.cmu.edu> tp0x+@cs.cmu.edu (Thomas Price) writes:
>
> ... I thought rabbinism wasn't a meaningful force until the destruction
>of the Temple and the end of Temple-centered worship.

You are wrong!  Though rabbinism became the _official_ Judaism only
after the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 AD, it had been a
powerful _opposition_ party long before that, with strong popular
support at the grass roots.   Hillel, probabily the most important
figure in rabbinism, did most of his works in the early part of the
first century.  The rise of rabbinism in that period had to do with
the corruption, Hellenization, and moral decline of the Roman-appointed
high priests.  With the growing popular support enjoyed by rabbinism,
the high priests clung to their _official_ religious leadership position
with the backing of the Romans.  After all, the high priests had the
control of the Temple Guards, the only armed force outside the Roman
regulars.  The anti-Roman sentiment among the rabbis and the general
Jewish populace kept growing and eventually led to the Jewish War in
the autumn of 66 AD.

> ... What rabbis?

They were called Pharisees in the New Testament.


Regards,
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: lggidden@eos.ncsu.edu (LARRY GRANT GIDDENS)
Subject: MKULTRA and Lee Harvey Oswald
Originator: lggidden@c00058-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
Keywords: MKULTRA JFK Lee Harvey Oswald
Reply-To: lggidden@eos.ncsu.edu (LARRY GRANT GIDDENS)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:51:23 GMT


Lee Harvey Oswald was supposily one of the participants of the MKULTRA CIA
experiments to use LSD to control the american citizens.  Mebbe he got a 
hold of some bad stuff and that casued him to go crazy and assassinate JFK.
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.activism.d,misc.legal,alt.politics.bush,alt.president.clinton
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc,alt.president.clinton
Subject: Re: Execute Amy Fisher!!!
Date: 9 Jan 93 19:19:33 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <hurd.726538145@sfu.ca> hurd@fraser.sfu.ca (Peter L. Hurd) writes:
>
>If I remember correctly, the charge of conspiring to blah blah is more serious
>than the charge of actually doing blah blah in the States.  At least I know
>that charges of conspiring to block a sidewalk were brought against a bunch 
>of annoying protesters since this charge carried a heavier penalty than 
>charging them with blocking the sidewalk.
>-- 

Right, but it does take two to conspire. If I, acting alone, attempt
to do blah blah blah, then I'm not guilty of conspiracy to blah blah
blah.

Paul
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,new,.age
From: sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu (Simon E. Booth)
Subject: Re: Execute Amy Fisher!!!
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 10:58:26 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.162320.17278@news.acns.nwu.edu> dmeier@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Douglas Meier) writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.150808.6452@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> sbooth@lonestar.utsa.edu
>(Simon E. Booth) writes:
>>
>>Need I say more?  We've got to do something about murderers!
>>
>She didn't actually kill anybody, but I must agree.  The punishment should fit
>the crime, and the fact that it seldom does in this country is the sole reason
>crime is now running rampant here.  Ferchrissakes!  Fisher beats a woman over
>the head with a gun, shoots her, and she's going to spend a few scant years in
>a cell and come out MAKING MONEY on the deal.
>
>And who says crime doesn't
I think the victim is entitled to some if not all of the money Fisher is
getting from the obscene number of book/movie deals she got.

Simon

Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
From: pub@riscee.pko.dec.com (Publius)
Subject: Re: _Jesus: A Life_ by A.N. Wilson
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard MA
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 05:05:09 GMT

In article <C0G7rM.4oF.1@cs.cmu.edu> tp0x+@cs.cmu.edu (Thomas Price) writes:
>
> ... I thought rabbinism wasn't a meaningful force until the destruction
>of the Temple and the end of Temple-centered worship.

You are wrong!  Though rabbinism became the _official_ Judaism only
after the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 AD, it had been a
powerful _opposition_ party long before that, with strong popular
support at the grass roots.   Hillel, probabily the most important
figure in rabbinism, did most of his works in the early part of the
first century.  The rise of rabbinism in that period had to do with
the corruption, Hellenization, and moral decline of the Roman-appointed
high priests.  With the growing popular support enjoyed by rabbinism,
the high priests clung to their _official_ religious leadership position
with the backing of the Romans.  After all, the high priests had the
control of the Temple Guards, the only armed force outside the Roman
regulars.  The anti-Roman sentiment among the rabbis and the general
Jewish populace kept growing and eventually led to the Jewish War in
the autumn of 66 AD.

> ... What rabbis?

They were called Pharisees in the New Testament.


Regards,
-- 
For Christ and His Kingdom
-- Publius
Disclaimer: These opinions are mine, all mine, mine alone.
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: The Spotlight
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 02:02:35 GMT


The "Spotlight" is the journal of the "Liberty Lobby", a notoriously
racist organization. It was founded by Willis Carto, a self-admitted
Hitler admirer and Nazi worshiper, who also spearheads the distribution
of the particularly repulsive form of antisemitic propaganda known
as "Holocaust revisionism". Another of Carto's creations is "Noontide
press", a book publishing firm which distributes the most racist
and pro-Nazi propaganda around - books hailing Hitler and Goering,
books claiming Blacks are inferior to whites, etc.

In 1985, the "Liberty Lobby" sued the "Wall Street Journal" for
describing it as antisemitic. The suit was kicked out of court,
and Judge Bork, in his summary, concluded that "if antisemitism
has a core, factual meaning, it was demonstrated here". 

In short - save your money.

-Danny Keren.


Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy:13739 talk.politics.misc:66293
From: ingles@engin.umich.edu (Ray Ingles)
Subject: Re: contradictory nature of free will and omni-anything
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 93 14:59:50 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Keywords: Signs

In article <1ilj5cINN7dg@shelley.u.washington.edu> jeon@carson.u.washington.edu (Sangyong Jeon) writes:
[discussion fo why omniscience denies free-will deleted]

 I tend to disagree with this; I think that (in principle) omniscience and
free will can coexist. Mind you, this is a "weak atheist" saying this, so
I like to think that I don't have an axe to grind about this particular
issue. I don't think there's a "God", but for reasons other then this.
 The problem with discussing this is that is assumes, in effect, that time
travel is possible. The problem with that is that every Earthly language
I've heard of, particularly English, has a grammar insufficient to deal
with the idea.
 Anyway. Consider the typical picture of time. The past is fixed, it's
'already happened,' the present is where choices get made, and the future
is not fixed and can be altered by present choices.
 Now, my parents met, got married, and had me. This choice is done, it
cannot be changed, right? But if this choice is fixed, does it mean that
they didn't have free will then, at that time? Of course not. When that
was the present, they could make their own choices, just as we at this
moment can make our own choices.
 So, in principle, having a known, fixed sequence of events does not deny
free will, correct?
 Now, as you stated in the bit I deleted, omniscience implies that history
could be laid out in front of a 'god' like a painting. This would require
a god 'outside of time,' or at least experiencing duration along a dimension
perpendicular to our own time.
 I think that this would be equivalent to looking at history from the far
future, when *everything* had already happened. Or, to the outside-of-time
type god, 'everything happens at once.' My parents had free will then, I
have free will now, and my kids will have free will in the future; but my
choices are affected by the choices of my parents, and my kids choices
will be affected by my choices. I make choices based on what my parents
chose/'are freely choosing' in the past, and my kids will have to choose
based in part on what I'm freely choosing now.
 Time-travel stories are great for exploring this sort of thing. Try
watching "The Terminator" with this idea in mind; or read "Lifeline,"
"By His Bootstraps," or "All You Zombies..." by Robert Heinlein.
 As for some *extremely* indirect evidence that time and history may behave
this way, solutions of certain equations in General Relativity indicate
that time travle may be possible under certain extreme circumstances.
(References to physics papers available upon request.)

 Sincerely,
 
 Ray Ingles
 ingles@engin.umich.edu

 "Is knowledge knowable? If not, how do we know this?" -- Woody Allen
From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: MKULTRA and Lee Harvey Oswald
Date: 6 Jan 1993 23:12:01 GMT
Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com
In-reply-to: lggidden@eos.ncsu.edu's message of Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:51:23 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.175123.4442@ncsu.edu> lggidden@eos.ncsu.edu (LARRY GRANT GIDDENS) writes:

   Lee Harvey Oswald was supposily one of the participants of the MKULTRA CIA
   experiments to use LSD to control the american citizens.

What's your source for this claim?
--
-30-
Bob Ingria
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy:13885 talk.politics.misc:66895 alt.politics.bush:15747 alt.president.clinton:1470