HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: * Jesus Christ? *
Summary: Hey, lay off, guys.
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:14:13 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.174420.28589@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>JOHN HIATT writes:
>>  I do not want to ask an intensely detailed question so I'll ask as simply
>>as possible:
>>
>>  How does Jesus of Nazareth fail to be the messiah?
>
>The simple answer is that your question is totally irrelevant for
>this (s.c.j.) newsgroup.

Let's not jump all over the guy. I think this was meant as a followup
to the "Religious Questions" posting. In my response, I made a blanket
statement that traditional Jews don't refer to Jesus as "Christ"
because "christ" is the Greek translation of "moshiach", and Jews
believe that Jesus is not the Messiah; therefore Jews do not refer to
him by that title. John Hiatt did *not* post something like, "But he
fulfilled this, and this, and this-- why won't you accept him?" No, he
asked a straightforward question: what is it about Jesus that
disqualifies him, from a traditional Jewish standpoint, from being the
Messiah?

I think this question is perfectly valid and appropriate. The Jewish
idea of "Messiah" is completely different from the Christian
understanding of "Christ", and this was the right place for Mr. Hiatt
to ask what the Jewish understanding is. On the other hand, if he'd
posted to alt.messianic, he would not have gotten a traditional Jewish
response; he would have been swamped by "Yids for Yashka" mishegoss.

Anyway, response to Mr. Hiatt: The substantive (i.e. non-flaming)
responses have been right on the money. I think the key is this:
Traditional Jews do not believe in anything like a "second coming".
When the Messiah has arrived, all the prophecies of the Messianic Age
will be fulfilled. They have not been fulfilled, ergo the Messiah has
not yet come. Q.E.D.

Note that the Messiah might be in the *process* of coming; that is, by
traditional Jewish belief, it is entirely possible that some Jew now
alive is the man who will become the Messiah. However, he isn't the
Messiah yet.
-- 
Andrew M. Solovay       "Work is the curse of the drinking class."
solovay@netcom.com			--Wilde

#include <disclaimer.h>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Tribe descent
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:01:48 GMT

de@moscom.com (David Esan) writes:
>Now this opens an interesting question.

>If I understood correctly, ten women, by themselves form an minyan, and can
>behave like a minyan, reading Torah, repeating Shmona Esreh, etc.

>When they read Torah, do they use Kohen, Levi, etc.?

Ten women do not a minyan make.  They may read the Torah, as may anyone.
They do not say "Barchu," kaddish or kedusha.  They may, perhaps, make
the birchot hatorah for the `aliyah, but we all should all say it in the
morning anyway.  I believe some say that those participating in the
women's "minyan" should wait to say the morning birchot hatorah for their
possible `aliyah.  Of course, this may present other problems.

I don't know of all their procedures with regard to the order of `aliyot.
I've never witnessed it. :-)

I am neither endorsing nor condemning the women's "minyan" movement.
I'll do that in private.

-Don Gertler
From: waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: T'chelet: can anyone help this guy?
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:57:55 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

> In article <1992Sep24.185310.13787@cbnews.cb.att.com>
> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
> >
> >[...]
> >2. If the commandment says to place techailet in the tzitzit and
> >   we don't, how is this better than placing what we think is
> >   techailet (even if it's possible we are wrong)?  Isn't it better
> >   to try to follow th commandment than to throw up our hands
> >   and say it's impossible?

I've often wondered this, as the Shema says, "Ur'item oto" that you will 
see IT, referring to the techalet, not the rest of the tzizit.  If we 
don't have techalet, then why tzizit.

On the other hand, if we were to partially observe mitzvot because we are 
precluded by technality from fulfilling them in entirety, then we might 
offer korbanot, etc.

Didn't some bible dude get killed because he failed to observe a 
technicality with regard to korbanot?

Todd
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Messianic qualifications (was Re: * Jesus Christ? *)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 23:13:07 GMT

In article <199210041330.AA01886@das.wang.com> MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni) writes:
>In: <9210021604.AA01212@hrt213.brooks.af.mil.brooks.af.mil>
>tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller) said in reply:
>
>>On Fri, 2 Oct 1992 07:05:24 GMT, JHIATT@130.187.170.178 (JOHN HIATT) said:
>>
>> J>   How does Jesus of Nazareth fail to be the messiah?
>>
>>       I think that dying without leaving a son behind kind of
>>disqualifies him.  The Messiah will be, above all, a man-- with a wife
>>and kids, too (sooner or later).
>
>These news must upset the Lubavicher  Hassidim, or do the believe that
>the Rebbe, even  living till he is  120 years old, is  going to repeat
>the trick of Avraham Avinu?

There are beliefs to the effect that in the Messianic age, life-spans
will be greatly extended (perhaps even to their pre-Flood levels, e.g.
bar-mitzvah at 100 years, death at as old as 900). In this case, there
would be plenty of time for Rav Schneerson to produce an heir.




-- 
Andrew M. Solovay       "Work is the curse of the drinking class."
solovay@netcom.com			--Wilde

#include <disclaimer.h>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Small joke
Summary: Selach lanu, avinu...
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 03:54:38 GMT

Just thought I'd share a small joke I ran across:

What did the tzaddik say when a camel sat on him?

"Ashirah laShem ki gamal alai."

Sorry 'bout that...

-- 
Andrew M. Solovay       "Work is the curse of the drinking class."
solovay@netcom.com			--Wilde

#include <disclaimer.h>
From: hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Tzom Gedalya
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:16:32 GMT
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems

In article <199210021029.AA06817@das.wang.com> MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni) writes:
>
>Usually  one performs  a Brit  Milah during  daytime, perhaps  by that
>making it easier to find a minyan, but  can one not have a Brit in the
>evening? If one can,  so if a boy is born on Ellul  25, the eighth day
>being Tishre 3, why not perform the Brit sometime in the evening after
>the end of Rosh Hashana? In that  case everyone can eat at the se'uda.
>The only point against it could be the one brought by Warren, and that
>is  that after  two days  of Rosh  Hashana no  person is  able to  eat
>anything let alone a se'uda :-).
>
>On Tish'a  be'av whether  regular or postponed,  this trick  would not
>work, because  there the fasting  lasts the  whole day (not  just from
>morning till evening).
>
>   Michael Shimshoni


I doublechecked with Rabbi Kaganoff to verify my memory and there
is a mishna in Meseches Megillah which lists a number of things
that must be done during the day.  One of the items listed is Bris
Milah.

_______________________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz        |    Im ain ani li mi li             |
| H_Markowitz@att.com     |    Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha      |
|_________________________|____________________________________|
From: hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: meaning of Yom Kippur
Date: 5 Oct 92 22:39:35 GMT
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California


A previous poster had asked a question about the purpose of Yom Kippur
for those Jews who do not accept the concept of ritual obligation by G-d.

I have another question:

Why do Jews, who do not accept the Talmud, keep Yom Kippur on the same
day as those who do? While the Torah stipulates that Yom Kippur
occurs on the 10th day of Tishri, it DOES NOT stipulate when the
1st day of Tishri is. And contrary to public opinion, the 1st day of
Tishri is not necessarily the same day as the new moon.

Although in general, the new-moon (or more precisely the Moled) signals
the 1st of Tishri, there are some cases where the Talmudic Sages
instituted a practice of postponing Rosh Hashana (aka 1st of Tishrei).
For example, if the new-moon (or Moled) would fall on Wednesday, the
Talmud decreed that Rosh Hashana (aka 1st of Tishri) should be delayed
for one day. Or, in a more extreme case, if new-moon (moled) occurs on
a Tuesday afternoon, Rosh Hashana is delayed by 2 days.

These practices were instituted by the Talmudic Sages. Yet, to my
knowledge, *all* Jews observe Yom Kippur on the same day. (At least
those Jews who observe Yom Kippur.) For one who accepts the authority
of the Talmud, the Talmud itself discusses the validity of these
practices. However, for those who do not accept the authority of
the Talmud as binding, it seems inconsistent (to me, at least) to
accept the Talmud in regards to the calendar. Why don't they observe
Yom Kippur on the mathematically determined day?

Food for thought on Yom Kippur (pardon the pun :-)

Wishing everyone a G'mar Chasima Tova.
Hayim Hendeles
From: santen@dutiws.tudelft.nl (Marieke.van.Santen.IS-tel-7216)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Names/attributes of HaShem
Date: 25 Sep 92 23:42:14 GMT
Distribution: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: T W I, Delft University of Technology

In article <ALLEN.92Sep23122533@golem.ssc.gov> allen@ssc.gov writes:
>
>Does anyone know of a good reference concerning the various name used
>for G-d and what are their implications ?implications?

For me a very good reference is: L'au-dela du verset ( beyond the verse ) 
written by Emmanuel Levinas. 
Especially chapter 10 is of great interest. 

Lesjana Tova & Mazzel Tov.

Mischa van Vlaardingen. 




































>


>
B




>


>





>
From: loon@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za (LOON M J)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Y.K.
Date: 6 Oct 92 10:31:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: underdog.loon.68
Organization: Wits Electrical Engineering (Undergrads).

Well over the fast everyone!

--
Marc Loon <loon@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za>
Student No: 8807871/X
Elec Eng. University of the Witwatersrand
Johannesburg

Conversation: a voice competition between two people
in which the one taking a breath is called the listener.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 06:32:19 GMT

matthew@stats.mu.oz.au (Maciek Blasikiewicz) writes:

>goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg) writes:

>>I have received the following text as private mail. I have erased any
>>identification of the sender. The electronic mail address points at a
>>respected UNIVERSITY.
>[...stuff deleted...]
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>In article <goldberg.715809502@techunix.technion.ac.il>, you write:
>>|> matthew@.cs.mu.oz (Maciek Blasikiewicz) writes:
>[...lots of stuff deleted...]

>Since my name appears here, I would like to state that I was NOT the
>author of the private letter quoted. Perhaps J.Goldberg should have
>stated that himself... or maybe refrain from discussing in public any
>private e-mail altogether.

>MB
    Sure Maciek, I repeat, I have removed ANY identification of the author.
    ANY identification left is NOT related IN ANY WAY to the author.
    I am very sorry if YOU thought otherwise, and I do hope that ALL OTHER 
    READERS have understood that if there IS an identification, and I wrote
    that I erased ANY idenitification of the AUTHOR, then you Maciek are NOT
    the author.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Hebrew origin of some English words
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:20:41 GMT

warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) writes:

>When a word sounds like it might come from Hebrew, one should look in
>a dictionary and see what its etymology is.  To do otherwise borders
>on that which prevents piety, something we ought to be striving
>for at this time of year.

Sorry but I personally believe that etymology in dictionaries is often not
too reliable. Please tell us, for example, what your dict. says for the	origin 
of macabre. French dictionaries associate this word to Maccabee, while to me	it seems that MEQAVER is more likely.

Gmar Hatima Tova
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: PLEASE!  I need your help!  Help me keep this love alive!
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:14:57 GMT
Organization: liver ---> spleen

In article <RLK.92Oct6124924@underprize.think.com>
rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:

>If organized Judaism is going to take a hard line toward people who
>intermarry, and parents of someone who intermarries are going to go
>through the whole mourning routine, it's not going to make Judaism look
>very attractive.

Using other (additional) reasons, of course, but isn't that one of the
things Christians, Moslems, idol worshippers, etc. have been saying
about Judaism for the past couple thousand years?

No, I am not calling Christians or Moslems idol worshippers.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: anton@gagme.chi.il.us (Andrzej Borowiec)
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Originator: anton@gagme
Organization: Gagme Public Access UNIX, Chicago, Illinois.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 03:45:20 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.093426.29019@walter.cray.com> aleks@cray.com (Aleksander Mazur) writes:
>
>
>
>I wouldn't generalize also in that area. There are several examples
>of complete assimiliation even in single generation of immigrants
>that came to Poland after WWII. I know examples like that among
>Greeks and Chileans. I think that the main reason of that was that
>those immigrants did not try to form separate communities, didn't
>even try to organize themselves separately. I guess looking
>in the history for Jews it was unacceptable behaviour. Separatism
                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Unacceptable? To whom?

>was the way to avoid assimiliation.

So it was. What about it? Would it matter in a really tolerant
society whether some group tried to assimilate or not?
>
>A. Mazur
>

A. Borowiec
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lhsux@swingset.bae.bellcore.com (Lorne Schachter)
Subject: Re: Chasidic Mysteries
Organization: Bell Communications Research
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 12:30:44 GMT

In article <1aci4kINNquk@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, ad980@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul S. Wolf) writes:
|> 
|> I believe the Author you are looking for is Faye Kellerman.
|> 
|> She has written a number of mysteries about an Orthodox widow
|> who meets, falls in love with, and marries a Police Detective.
|> 
|> The first in the Series is: Ritual Bath
|> Others include: Sacred and Profane, and Day of Atonement.
|> She has written about 7 stories in all.  
|> 
|> I've enjoyed them all and recommend the series.
|> 
|> ps: Her Husband, Jonathan Kellerman, is also a mystery writer.
|> 	His books include one, _The Killing Ground_ , about a
|> 	Detective in Jerusalem.  The rest are based in L.A. and
|> 	feature a Child Psycholgist as the lead character.
|> 	I also recommend these books.
|> 
Hear, hear.   My wife and I are both big Jonathan and Faye Kellerman
fans.  Their books are great and she treats Orthodox Jewish issues
very well.

					Lorne
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: "Mitchell Faust - Adroit Systems -Dayton, Ohio."
Subject: Re: Using vacation days for the Jewish Holidays
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <"Mitchell Faust - Adroit Systems -Dayton, Ohio.">
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 13:48:11 GMT

I have worked for three "high tech" consulting companies over the years
and each one has had different policies.  

My first company told me I had to take vacation days for the Holidays,
no if and or but.  That is what I got for asking.  The first year, that
is what I did.  The next year I developed a little sore throat, a cough,
and took off a couple of days.  No one noticed the significance of those
days, being the only Jewish person had an advantage.

My second company said, we will exchange your holidays with any other 
scheduled holiday, i.e. christmas, columbus day.  That would seem like
a good solution, except I worked full time at an Air Force Base and my
work was done in a highly classified area.  The room could only be opened
by Air Force personel.  So there was no way I could use this policy.
I developed my annual cough.

The company I work for now has no specific policy.  Since I now have my
own office I could make up the work during the time card period or take
vacation days.  I feel a cold comming on...

Whats the ethics of what I do?  Well, I feel rotten that I have to lie
to take off the  holy days  in the jewish calendar.  I don't see
another solution.  I only get 2 weeks vacation.  A couple of days off 
for the holidays is not like a vacation.  I want vacation days that are
vacation; time to get away from work and travel.

Until this christian country begins to deal with religious minorities
there will not be a easy solution.

Mitchell O. Faust
mfaust@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"These opinions and views expressed here are strictly my very own 
 and do not reflect the official position of either the U.S. Air 
 Force, its contractors, staff, management or sponsors."  In fact
 if asked they have never heard of me.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Re: Using vacation days for the Jewish Holidays
Organization: Summit NJ
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 04:56:24 GMT

>>Yes, I work for AT&T, and I do in fact consider their floating holidays
>>vacation policy fair. (By the way, who's USL?) 
>
>Unix Systems Laboratories.  A division of AT&T (or Bellcore, I forget
>which).

USL is a company that's majority owned by AT&T.  It was formed as a
separate subsidiary in mid-1990 with the first shares sold to outside
investors on April 1, 1991 (previously, UNIX system development
were organizations within Bell Labs).

Our vacation, etc., policy is the same as AT&T's, which include 3
floating holidays and 4 paid personal days off (in addition to
vacation).

There are no "extra" days for the Jewish holidays; we have to use
either the floating holidays, paid personal days, or vacation days
(same as AT&T), but, work permitting, we are "officially" allowed
to work Christmas day and take a different day off instead (I
believe many AT&T Bell Labs organizations unofficially allow
this).

In another holiday area, the celebration of Christmas does not
pervade our building.  There is one Christmas tree, with assorted
other decorations, in the building; all other decorations are
individuals decorating their own office area.  (Compare this
to the typical Bell Labs location with Christmas trees in the
lobby, cafeteria, and lounge area, and wreaths by each elevator
stop.)   All other holidays, such as Hannukkah, Chinese
New Year, and Black Heritage Month have similar access to
public areas of the building.
-- 
Stan Krieger                     All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
AT&T UNIX System Laboratories    if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 22:33:41 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.210905.23940@sarah.albany.edu> pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu writes:
>>that's the issue under discussion.  Polish nationalism (as most other
>>nationalism) included a "Jewish Question," but not, say, a Wendish
>>question.

>>Roger

>  It it difficult to answer your quite general statement "who was
>accepted far more readily" in Poland.  It varied in the history,
>we are talking about at least 800 years.

Of course -- but Jews were often an Other in the sense that individuals
of other groups were not.  It's a difficult question, one best answered
in scholarly debate, not in text-bites (byte-bites?) on the net...

>  Nevertheless I want to assure you that Polish pre-WWII nationalism
>included  "Unkrainian question", "German question" (reason
>for WWII, BTW) 

*a* reason, let's say.  And a useful excuse for the Gleiwitz Radio
Station Incident -- which took place about 100 meters from the house
my father's family had left behind, btw.

>and all kind of other questions. Nothing to be proud
>about, of course, but that was the reality of rising nationalisms
>in XIX and XX centuries in Central and Eastern Europe.  You certainly
>remember that modern Jewish nationalism arose in XIX century and
>that it lead to the modern state of Israel.

Indeed -- but it arose in self-defense, mainly, after the wave of
anti-Semitism that followed the other nationalist movements...

Roger

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: literature like chaim potok
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 2 Oct 92 08:24:18 GMT

Did anyone see Hillel Halkin's review of Potok's latest book?  It was
in the Jerusalem Report.  Not long ago.  It talked about his writing
style.  How it was appropriate for Hemmingway.  But Jews don't talk
that way.  Hemmingway's men of action used short sentences.  Since
Shammai no Jew has.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       New signature will appear "acharai hachagim"
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org 			Jerusalem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Shul names
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:07:51 GMT

A while back, we were discussing shul names.  I got an email
message from Michelle K. Gross (a faithful scj-er whom we've
missed) who tells me

a. The Chabad house in Santa Monica calls itself "Chabad of
   Simcha Monica."  :-)

b. She can't post directly to scj anymore. :-(

-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish