HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: damiel@netcom.com (Paul Theodoropoulos)
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
X-Spook-Fodder: hero heroin tree shrub bush birth life death FBI CIA NSA
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 00:35:42 GMT

In <C0I60E.30n@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:

>   Does Apple really have to do anything to the internals of the machine?  
>Apple sold 2 million Macintoshes last year -- and three Macintoshes for every
>Amiga that Commodore sold -- despite the lack of a real multitasking OS.  
>Perhaps if Commodore took the old cliche "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em"
>and made the Amiga a little more Mac-like by giving the Amiga more surface
>polish and friendliness, Commodore would sell more Amigas.  They would also
>need to push some major software developers to devleop Amiga software.

thanks for sharing that (twice).

"if you can't beat 'em, join 'em", nonsense. by that logic, amiga should 
break the multitasking and add a few surface pretties to the OS and
the Amiga will sell like hotcakes. HA! i seem to recall a certain nimrod with 
the initials MARC BARRETT saying that the reason amiga doesn't sell is
because of the braindead marketing department (an opinion i agree with).

the amiga GUI is *different* from the mac GUI. that's it. its different. not
better not worse. or more accurately - there are as many things better about 
the amiga gui as there are things worse, compared with the mac.

the major features of the gui are just fine - fine enough for the typical
user. you are nattering on about certain smaller details of the implementation
that are different or nonexistant on the amiga, while ignoring *other* small
details of the implementation that are better than on the mac.

but this comes as no surprise.

-- 
paul theodoropoulos     damiel@netcom.com     (hooools@well.sf.ca.us)

"Those who will trade essential liberty for promise of security will have
 neither" - Benjamin Franklin
From: doiron@starpt.UUCP (Glenn Doiron)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: clone prices & doom & gloom
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:33:58 GMT
Organization: 68K Software Development
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (10.17.92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith

In article <jeremym.726120538@sfu.ca> jeremym@fraser.sfu.ca (Jeremy Thomas McDonald) writes:
[zap]
> 
> That's because North American users are not concerned with having fun,
> and only consider the best CPU vs. price ratio.  Ever notice the only 
> difference between all the IBM-compatibles/clones is CPU type?  Where
> are the custom chips to make it all happen?  Oh well, price arguments
> are stupid when comparing anything non-IBM compatible to anything
> IBM-compatible in the US or Canada.  North American users are socially
> pressured to buying IBM-compatible machines.  At least there's a large 
> Amiga market in Europe.  At least Europeans know how to have a good time.

Oh, brooooooother.
 
> - jeremym@fraser.sfu.ca - yes, a lowly computer science student

Glenn Doiron
--
Amiga UUCP+
Origin:  uunet.uu.net!starpt.UUCP!doiron (Organization:68K Software Development)
         BIX: gdoiron
** Not enough memory to perform requested operation.  Add 4 megs and retry.
From: cs_e445@ceres (Vlod Kalicun)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Date: 5 Jan 1993 15:30:21 GMT
Organization: Kingston University
NNTP-Posting-Host: ceres.kingston.ac.uk
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
: of CrossDOS.  If having two disk icons for every disk was a "feature" 
: Commodore would have left the FastFileSystem that way, since the FFS did 
: exactly the same thing under 1.3.  Yet Commodore rewrote the FFS to remove 
: this "feature", but has never bothered to do so for CrossDOS in 2.1 or 3.0.

Actually I don't really mind this because if I have PC disk in, and I wish to
format it for the amiga, I can just select df1:??? and use the format menu.
If I select the PC disk icon it will PC format it. (which it should) but not
for FFS.

If above icon didn't exist I would have to use a disk formatting prog, like
SuperDuper etc.

Regards..

Vlod
-Amiga Advocate.
----------------------------------------------
Amiga - Anything else isn't worth considering
----------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:43:10 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.154229.11004@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Gregory R Block (bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu) wrote:
>:
>: Perhaps you'd sound less dumb if you avoided trying to use
>: applications to justify the OS at the moment.  If that were true, Plan
>: 9 would probably be a pointless, dead OS, as would OS/9.  Fortunately,
>: they're two extremely good OSes.  The existence or lack of
>: applications does not justify an operating environment/system.
>:
>
>Once again, Greg, you fail to grasp the meaning of the words you read.
>I'm not using applications to justify the OS.  I'm saying that Windows
>has the functionality to support applications the likes of which you
>can't get anywhere else.  This functionality includes complete device
>independence and communications protocols such as OLE.

I didn't think that Windows had a stranglehold on that sort of thing.
Your statement will certainly come as a surprise to folks using Macs,
NeXTs, OS/2, and other systems...

>But while we're at it, perhaps YOU'd sound less dumb if you could tell me
>what an OS is good for without applications.

For learning about operating systems.  Minix doesn't have anything in the
way of great applications, yet it is fine for teaching an OS course.

>+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
>| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
>| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
>|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
>+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+

Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dusek@cadsun.corp.mot.com (James Dusek)
Subject: Re: looking for good strip poker
Organization: Motorola, Inc., Software Research and Development, Rolling Meadows, IL. 60008
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 22:00:36 GMT

barrett@astro.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett) writes:
>forget.  Anyway, nobody can POSSIBLY be offended... not even total SCUMBAGS
>such as the people reading this article.

	Some of us are just readiing it because you wrote it, not because of the
subject matter :)

James Dusek

	
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: kennethm@cc.gatech.edu (Kenneth Moorman)
Subject: Re: Does reading this group make you depressed? The story of a victim.
Reply-To: kennethm@cc.gatech.edu (Kenneth Moorman)
Organization: College of Computing
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:49:22 GMT

In article <C0G9p9.Ez1@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>
>   Where do I buy them?  I can't exactly go down to the local WaldenBooks and
>buy a European Amiga magazine.  How do I go about getting one of these 
>magazines from deep in the heart of the U.S.?
>
>---
>| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
>--------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, I get mine from a local dealer, Ampex Computers here in
Atlanta.   I have also seen them at B. Daltons Bookstores.
If that fails, I have always been able to find them at
bookstores which are a little "nicer" than chain stores.  I don't
know how to describe them except as nicer.  Examples are
Joseph Beth in Lexington, Ky; Hawley Cooke in Louisville, Ky; 
and Borders in Atlanta, Ga.  Check a yellow pages under
books.  

And ANYWAY, if you do not have access to information 
about the state of affairs in Europe, how can you make informed
comments about them.   That's equivalent to me saying something
like "There's no movie theaters in Florida because I have never
seen any and I can't get hold of a Florida newspaper to check". 
Ludicrous, ain't it?



			- Kenneth Moorman (kennethm@cc.gatech.edu)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: To VM or not to VM?
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 00:14:50 GMT

das9674@ucs.usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>>abuhr@owlnet.rice.edu (Aaron M. Buhr) writes:
>>>     The Amiga advocates' argument against VM seems ...
>>
>>... unreasonable, since the Amiga has VM.
>
>You logic fails.  They do not say that they do not have
>VM, but they they (have it and) do not want it.

Again, this is unreasonable.  Let me make 'me logic' clearer.  :-)
If they do not want chocolate syrup on their ice-cream, they do not have
to put any on--or something like that.

-- Gerald
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: philip@utstat.toronto.edu (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: Will PC Makers Survive Mutimedia?? 
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 09:49:43 GMT

In article <C0LI7H.G0o@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:

[ ]
>
>Yes, I have heard many good things about Grandma and Me.  Conversely, I
>have seen, and am VERY impressed with Mammals, severaly encyclopedias
>and Multimedia beethoven.  For young children, CD-ROM isn't the best
>investment because they couldn't assimilate 680MB of information if
>they tried!  Simple programs, like the Bearenstien Bear's Counting (an
>EXCELLENT title) are just as good to them.

Mammals is in fact quite good, although strictly speaking it is not an MPC
title. Both the Beethovan and Mozart CD's would never be enough to convince
anyone to buy a 12" monitor+computer in order to listen to them. They really
have a limited audience, especially on that solitary unit known as a 
computer.
 
As for an encyclopedia, I haven't seen the one Microsoft is coming out with,
but I have yet to see an encyclopedia on a computer better than Grolier's,
and that exists for CDTV. Compton's has never been taken seriously in book
form. Why both spending $500 to listen to the thing? Now, the Oxford 
dictionary is another matter. I really think that CD-ROM's are only of use
for delivery of large programs, and not as a unit to use these on. It's far
too slow.
>
>But when a set of encyclopedias costs >$1000.00 and an MPC with CD-ROM
>can be had for about the same (with a computer thrown in to boot!) I
>don't see how you can say that CD-ROM has little to offer.  And you
>haven't given any rationale why CD-I or CDTV is better.  CDTV has less
>titles in EVERY category.  How can it, therefore, be better?

I didn't say they were better. I said they had more potential. They are 
family oriented and computers are solitary devices. 
 
For $1000 you'll get an MPC that you'll have to hide next to the furnace.
 
Philip McDunnough
philip@utstat.toronto.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: University of Helsinki
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:33:19 GMT

Tom R Krotchko (TomK@cup.portal.com) wrote:
> >You've been reading too much Motorola PR.  At least the 486 contains
> >a complete implementation of the FPU and MMU; the same cannot be said of
> >the '040.  What an upgrade.
> 
> Wow. So you're saying the FPU in the 040 is incomplete. And yet its
> still faster than a 486 at floating point.

Not to mention it multiplies faster than 486 integer unit...:)

-- 
Jarkko Lindblad         | sleep my friend and you will see
lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi | that dream is my reality
------------------------| they keep me locked up in this cage
          - MetallicA - | can't they see it's why my brain say rage
From: mitchell@cbmvax.commodore.com (Fred Mitchell - Product Assurance)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Date: 11 Jan 93 20:08:52 GMT
Reply-To: mitchell@cbmvax.commodore.com (Fred Mitchell - Product Assurance)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

bill@west.msi.com wrote:
>Joe O'Hara - Product Assurance (joe@cbmvax.commodore.com) wrote:
>: In article <1993Jan6.184331.25829@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>: >Windows is a hell of a lot more functional for me than AmigaOS until you
>: >can tell me where I can buy AmigaOS versions of Quicken and FrameMaker.
>: >What do you know about the inside of Windows anyway?
>:
>: This thread was about GUI environments, not the choice of applications to
>: run under them. That's a different subject altogether; although I realize
>: that it's one of your ongoing criticisms, do you have to inject it into
>: everything :)
>
>The list of availible applications for an OS is definitely a
>strength/weakness.  People don't buy operating systems, they buy
>applications.

Ah yes, true. But the DISCUSSION was about GUI merits, not applications.
That railroad just won't quit, will it?

>+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
>| Bill Poitras    | Molecular Simulations Inc.    | Tel (408)522-9229       |

=== Fred Mitchell (mitchell@cbmvax.UUCP) ===================================
 One man's reality  ..      ///      If all that you say is true,         ..
 is another man's   .. \\\ ///       then why do you exist here?          ..
 fantasy.   (  72)  ..  \\X//                                  - DS9      ..
============================================================================
Tl9ckdr/hM*#/F(>DSsBq9*TQ&6\AGk`^Hd_Ejfn^3P43QXU:v+YLrgv-og_^:CEVIL6H#JhL9l]
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jasonb@cs.uwa.oz.au (Jason S Birch)
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Organization: Dept. Computer Science, University of Western Australia.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 04:35:53 GMT

In <1993Jan6.164028.2005@msus1.msus.edu> martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Psigon Matrix....do you DOUBT us??) writes:

>In article <C0F5z7.A7A@news.iastate.edu>, barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>>
>>   I've been using 2.0 for a LONG time (since right after it became available),
>>and I noticed that feature only just now.  Shows how often I use it.
>>
>Just to correct the original statement.  The mac does have open parent. You
>hold down either the option or OA command key while clicking on the drag
>bar at the top of the childs window that you want to go from.  

I knew the mac had it but had no idea WB2.0 had it until I went home last night
and RTFM :). The first thing interesting I noticed was that if you open a few
drawers, then close the parents, and then open any of the parents using either
"open parent" or double-clicking on the disk icon, for example, all the icons
come up instantaneously. BUT, the moment you close the "deepest" drawer
(assuming all the rest are closed also) the disk must be accessed (even when
addbuffers dh0: 230 has been executed :) to draw the icons again... So,
presumeably, the previous window's icons have been buffered, and those buffers
are flushed (I suspect they are not the same buffers used by addbuffers) when
the "child" window is closed. What would be nice, for those with enough memory,
is if we could allocate those "other buffers" ourselves, to achieve the same
effect without having to leave the child window open. IMHO, of course. :-)

Later,
Jason.

>Jim
>          Jim Martin   MATRIX -- If it's made, we sell it. Almost.
-- 
Mr Jason Birch                       _--_|\  Internet: jasonb@cs.uwa.edu.au
Department of Computer Science      /      \ Tel (work): +61 9 380 1840
The University of Western Australia *_.--._/ Fax (work): +61 9 380 1126
Nedlands  W. Australia  6009              v  Tel (home): +61 9 386 8630
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dtiberio@engws10.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio)
Subject: Re: RISC Amiga?
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:02:43 GMT

In article <C0qsMv.794@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>>The A4000 is 68060 and RISC-ready by virtue of the modular CPU slot.
>
>I specifically said "A stock Amiga."  It makes no sense to buy two CPUs
>because C= hasn't got around to supporting the 68060 yet.

	The following Amigas have CPU sockets: 

	Amiga 1000
	Amiga 500
	Amiga 500+
	Amiga 1500
	Amiga 2000
	Amiga 2500

	The following Amigas have CPU slots:

	Amiga 1500
	Amiga 2000
	Amiga 2500
	Amiga 3000
	Amiga 3000T
	Amiga 4000

	The following Amigas have CPU expansion ports:

	Amiga 1200
	Amiga 2200 (new)

	The following Amigas have no CPU slots (I don't think):

	Amiga 600 (but apparantly a 68030 card is available somehow)




	So I don't think it is that bad. Oops, silly me, the Amiga 2200
doesn't exist. :) Just thought I would make a little joke...

-- 
      Amiga Graphics Association BBS (516) 473-6351  24 HRS 14.4 v.32bis
ixemul.library mpeg_play mpeg_movies jpegs gifs 3d_objs music_mods adobe_fonts
	 login: ANONYMOUS password: GUEST for unrestricted downloads
From: dleslie@phakt.usc.edu (David Leslie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Date: 10 Jan 1993 17:58:12 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

In article mbrown@legend.akron.oh.us writes:
>well LUCKILY we don't have to worry about which Video Card Maker and 
>WHICH sound card Maker, and WE DEFINATLY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ALL 
>THE FREEKIN' I N C O M P A T I B I L I T Y!!!. that comes with buying 
>a clone. 

	I guess I know what you mean, but in reality, I have had
more 'freekin' incompatibility problems with the amiga. Granted
they are usually due to poorly written software(often games). But 
there are a bunch of problems the amiga has

The biggest is 1.3 stuff that crashes under 2.04
Software hangs because of second disk drive
Software hangs because of existence of fast-ram
Software hangs because of existence of 1 or 2 meg agnus

Anyway, I have had endless hours of problems moving software
between the A1000, and the A3000. 

[stuff deleted]
>C= Has always uses the fastest Ram Scemes for 
>the Amiga so you don't have to worry about the Speed of the ram.
[stuff deleted]
>    Mark

What about the a2091? To fill that baby I had to find some
shop that sold HP printer ram. Not only is it a slow ram,
(and yes, you do indeed have to worry about the speed) it
is hard to find and expensive, and harder to install
that simms.


 /  Amiga  ///    |  U.S.C. Trojans  | O Bar  | David Leslie        \
|         ///     |     Fight On!    | E O    |                      |
|     \\\///      |        --        | Meu    | dleslie@usc.edu      |
 \     \XX/ A1000 |     Go Kings!    | Lar!   |                     /
From: mike@rahul.net (Mike Smithwick)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: More on 3DO
Date: 12 Jan 93 01:29:18 GMT
Organization: a2i network

[]

When the Amiga was first under development it was to be the "ultimate"
game machine. As time went on this game machine got a keyboard, floppy
drives and a real OS.

It seems that that is the path that 3DO is taking, according to the
most recent Computer Currents magazine. Once the basic
3DO box is available, keyboards and other peripherals will come out for
it.

The basic description also sounds roughly like the early Amiga : Game
box with special graphics chips, expandable, beat the hell out of
the competiton, etc, etc, etc. (This is not to imply that this is
an Amiga, not by a long shot, but the nature and level of excitement 
is the same).

While the Amy was the king of graphics in its day, doing things that
no other machine could do back in the mid-80s, 3DO seems to be ready
to take its place, advancing the expectations of home graphics machines
yet another couple of generations.

The article states : "If you have ever seen graphics done on a high-end
workstation, then you have seen a good representation of the graphics
and effects you can get on the 3DO machine. It includes 3-D rendering,
360 degree rotation, and shading features that allow you to see
through a 3-D rotating object...Although you could not classify this 
system as a graphics workstation by any means, it is a graphics workstation
quality playing device."

The article ends "...when the game market gets a look at the quality of
the 3DO system, I think that demand for this game machine could be very
high by this time next year.And it could be well on its way to being
a PC that finally breaks into the home..."

Remember all of the outcry from those folks who got tired of people
calling the Amiga a "great game machine"?

With RJs involvement, I can only hope that this sucker comes with
some good user interface libs, CD-I sure doesn't.

Mike

PS. Anyone wanting to start comp.sys.3DO  ??  ;-)


-- 
This message brought to you by the Happy Fun Ball! It's Happy! It's
fun!! It's the HAPPY FUN BALL!!! (Still legal in 16 states)
*** Mike Smithwick - mike@rahul.net 
*** No disclaimer is necessary since I only work for myself, HA! HA! HA! HA!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: CBM does it again... 23 watt p.s. for A1200?!?
Summary: Is this cheezy or what?
Keywords: gimme a break
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 12:29:14 GMT

Geez, thats even less powerful than the pathetic 35 watt p.o.s. I had
burn up on me with a console alone!  Of all the things to scrimp on, this
has to be about the most ridiculous... come on, why not give us a standard
150 or 200 watt p.s.  How much could it cost?

Thom
k 


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 14:49:14 GMT

In <1993Jan5.001113.6264@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>YOU think about it.  Take a non-VM system with the same amount of RAM.  As
>soon as IT reaches the limit, it will stall until you turn off the computer
>and reboot.

Hardly. It will refuse to run the program or perform an operation until
the memory is freed.

There's hardly any application for VM where a single program requires
more memory than physically exists. As I said, it is a stopgap. Nothing
you will really want to have.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy