From: petonic@hal.com (Michael A. Petonic)
Subject: Re: speed traps on 2222
Reply-To: petonic@hal.com (Michael A. Petonic)
Organization: Henry's Laughing Gas Co., Inc.
	<275@zx11.cactus. <920@rider.UUCP>
Distribution: austin
Date: 06 Nov 92 17:05:25 GMT

In article <920@rider.UUCP> joe@rider.cactus.org (Joe Senner) writes:
>petonic@hal.com
>]joe@woody.mpd.tandem.com (Joe Senner) writes:
>]>there's no such thing as a "dangerous section of road". there is such
>]>a thing as someone driving beyond their abilities.
>]If a road turns left and the camber goes right, it's dangerous.
>
>hooey. when the person that happens to be driving on it does so in a
>manner that exceeds the ability of the vehicle or the person himself,
>he has become a danger to himself and others.
>
>inanimate objects like roads, three wheelers, the space shuttle, etc,
>are only dangerous when improperly used.

Just like the Pinto wasn't dangerous.  

OK -- let's look up the word "dangerous":

<WEB>Define dangerous
<WEB>DEFINITION 0
<WEB>dan-ger-ous \'da^-nj-(e-)res\ adj
<WEB>(15c)
<WEB>1: exposing to or involving danger
<WEB>2: able or likely to inflict injury
<WEB>-- dan-ger-ous-ly adv
<WEB>-- dan-ger-ous-ness n
<WEB>syn DANGEROUS, HAZARDOUS, PRECARIOUS, PERILOUS, RISKY mean bringing
<WEB>     or involving the chance of loss or injury. DANGEROUS applies
<WEB>     to something that may cause harm or loss unless dealt with carefully;
<WEB>     HAZARDOUS implies great and continuous risk of harm or failure
<WEB>     and small chance of successfully avoiding disaster; PRECARIOUS
<WEB>     suggests both insecurity and uncertainty; PERILOUS strongly implies
<WEB>     the immediacy of danger; RISKY often applies to a known and
<WEB>     accepted danger.

Hmmm, sure sounds like curves and roads and three wheelers can be
dangerous to me.  Look at definition #2 and the synonym section.

>]If you have a blind intersection like the City Park road used to be
>](without a stop), it's dangerous.
>
>only when used improperly. if you're incapable of correctly navigating 
>that section of the road, then it's your fault. you should have chosen 
>a route that you are capable of.

You're assuming, of course, *perfect* conditions.  There's a first
time on 2222 for everyone. 

You're also assuming restraint on the part of the driver.  For whatever
macho reasons, people don't drive within their abilities and *other*
people's abilities.  Especially in Texas, where the ego reigns.

>]Joe, you aren't going to change any driver's behaviours, so the best
>]that we can do is to set some reasonable limits that people may obey
>]or disregard at their own (pocketbook's) discretion.
>
>this is a really pessamistic attitude. 

No -- it's an entirely *healthy* attitude.  *You*, personally, aren't going
to change many people's behaviour.

This reminds me of my frustration when I first moved to Texas.  I came
from L.A. and though the drivers were fast and fairly agressive, there
was usually a reason for their actions.  They were also a hell of a lot
more attentive.  When I first moved to Austin, I wanted to buy a junker
Monte Carlo or something and teach these slackfaces how to drive.

Good thing I didn't.

>I believe that we CAN change
>drivers attitudes. maybe we can't change those established drivers
>but we can sure work on the new ones. we can adapt to the changing
>needs of our society or we can sit by and watch it happen and cry
>when it doesn't work. we can put decent education systems in place,
>we can test that driving abilities are to a certain level of competance.
>instead we take your attitude, why bother, just run around trying to
>patch up the leaks in the system.

I'm entirely for making more stringent tests, and stiffer penalties for
things like unsafe passing, lack of signals, tailgaiting (failure to 
maintain safe distance), blowing off stop signals and signs, ...  In short,
things that tend to result in accidents.

They should loosen up the penalties on speeding since the speed limits
cater to the highest comment factor in drivers.  Which is pretty low, given
today's tests.

>ever hear that saying that it costs a hell of a lot more to keep someone
>in prison than it does to educate them and make them a productive member
>of society? the same principle applies to a lot of things, including
>driving on public roads.

I agree.  So let's do it.  But let's do that BEFORE making any rash
changes on the road systems.  It would be a bloodbath, otherwise.

>]Hell, drivers around here lack the muscle coordination and cohesive
>]thought necessary to use turn signals, 
>
>the only reason they don't is because they LEARNED not to.

What ever happened to the Personal Responsibility kick that we were just
on?  

>]how do you expect them to
>]manage a tight, hairpin turn at 50 MPH???
>
>it shouldn't be a problem with proper training.

Heh heh.  Actually, there are so many drivers out there, you can't post
the limit to be the lowest common denominator.  People would push it.

I take 2222 pretty fast, but then I've got a SAAB turbo with excellent
suspension, and I'm fairly coordinated and have good reactions.  I'm
26, now...  by the time I'm 35, my reactions will have slowed.  When
I'm 55, if I tried to push the envelope out as far as I do now, I'd
be a dead man.   Hopefully, my gain in prudence will counteract my
loss in reactions.

-pet-
--
Michael A. Petonic	       petonic@hal.com		       +1-512-794-2855
        HaL Computer Systems International, Ltd. -- A Bermuda Corporation
                     Director of Dangerous Activities  [ACK to GeoffK@ism780c]
				 Austin, Texas
                          "No balls, no blue chip."