HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen)
Subject: Re: Hungarian GP
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date: 18 Aug 92 01:26:04 GMT

In <1992Aug16.224815.29756@sequent.com> dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller) writes:

>>i wonder if there were fisticuffs in the beneton pits later?

>Kinda doubt it.  But I do think that Billy Bob's seat will be open at
>the end of the year.  Schumacher's clearly earned his spurs. 

Schumacher's earned his spurs yes, but Brundle aint doing so bad
either. He was being held up by Schumacher during various parts of 
the race. There is now (after a fairly shaky start) little difference
in speed between the Benetton Boys, and in finishing reliability.
I wonder who'll have more points at the end of the year?
Only if Benetton were short on money would they replace Brundle (IMHO).
Plus that Walkinshaw has a high opinion of him tends to give him a
bit of staying power.

>I wonder if Nige and Gerhard will be speaking.  Berger, for my tastes,
>tried a little TOO hard to squeeze nige on the two times Nige passed him.

Was a little interesting there for a moment, wasn't it? Still, Nige
didn't seem unhappy on the podium or in the press conference. 
Was Berger driving another unequal car?


regards,
-- 
thos cohen  				       |Softway Pty Ltd
 The best way to make a Japanese engineer wince|ACSnet:         thos@softway.oz
 is (when talking about an NSX) to say slowly  |UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!thos
 'but its _not a Ferrari_ is it?' R.Bulgin, CAR|Internet:    thos@softway.oz.au
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui)
Subject: Driver-owned teams; are they the best?
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 03:15:27 GMT

In article <z09mngn.esprit@netcom.com> esprit@netcom.com (Alan F. Perry) writes:
>No, once you get on Team Willy's bad side, you might as well kiss it off.
>Well, except for Nigel.
>Actually, I hope that Team Willy gives in on Nigel's demands for $23M, then
>Nigel says, "No, thanks" anyway.  Nigel can live pretty comfortably with
>the money he has got.

What? And flog around midfield next year while Senna leads from start
to finish every single race in a Renault-Williams? What I really want
to see is everyone gang up on Frank Williams so that no one will drive
for him unless Patresse is the codriver on that team.

Which brings us to one of my old haunts: employee-employer relationships
and whether small entrepreneural teams are better than big ego and cash
laden teams.

If Frank Williams is indeed as much of a prick as Ron Dennis is reputed
to be, then that may explain why dieties like Alain Prost seriously wants
to own his own team.

As Bobby Rahal has shown lately, it's definitely a winning combination.

I'm not too up on my F1 history, but has there ever been a mildly
succesful driver-owned team contesting in F1? Ever?
Lotus? Nahhhh ...

Michael MY Hui  myhui@bnr.ca  Ottawa Canada
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: brims@bnkl01.astro.ucla.edu (George Brims)
Subject: Nettiquette
Organization: UCLA Dept of Astronomy
Date: 17 Aug 92 12:34:51 PDT

Will everyone please remember that you should not give away race results
in either the subject heading or the beginning of the text. If you are going to
mention what happened in a race within a couple of days, put "spoiler" in
the subject line, and add a page break (control-L) to the beginning of the
message. If you don't know your editor well enough to insert a page break,
consult your system manager or software support personnel.
This time it was KNX radio who told me what I didn't want to know (yet) but if
not a lot of today's messages were spoilers.

George Brims
From: chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Driver-owned teams; are they the best?
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:27:07 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: regenmeister

From article <1992Aug18.031527.13944@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, by myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui):
> I'm not too up on my F1 history, but has there ever been a mildly
> succesful driver-owned team contesting in F1? Ever?
> Lotus? Nahhhh ...

McLaren was successful is a driver owned team (Bruce McLaren was the
founder and owner).  However, they were not that successful in F1.
During Bruce's time, McLaren OWNED the CanAm series.  (Look up the Bruce
and Dennie show, followed by the Dennie and Peter show, after Bruce died
in testing).

A driver owned team that was very successful was Brabham, founded and
originally owned by 3-time world champion Sir Jack Brabham.  Jack won
his third championship in 1966 in the Repco-Brabham.  He is the only 
driver to win the world championship in a car of his own manufacture.  
Dennis Hulme won his world championship in 1967 in the Repco-Brabham.

To a lesser extent, we must also note the Dan Gurney won GP of Belgium
in 1967 in the All-American Racing Eagle-Weslake.  AAR was later very
successful in Indy-car racing and builds and runs the Toyota that is
cleaning up in IMSA GTP.

Chris Prael
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Re: Driver-owned teams; are they the best?
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 21:22:05 GMT

And of course don't forget that there were several owners/drivers
in NASCAR, particular in the late 50's.  Coming to mind are Lee
Petty, Ralph Moody (well, Holman-Moody), Cotton Owens - all with
varying degrees of success.

Unsuccessful, yet courageous owners/drivers in NASCAR:  J.D. McDuffie
and Wendell Scott, to name but a few.

Coming also to mind right now is Jim Derhaag who runs his own car in
TransAm.  Holds the record for consecutive starts over a very long haul.
I don't really believe he's had more than 1 career victory, if that.

NHRA:  Kenny Bernstein, Don Prudhomme, Eddie Hill....and lots more.

-c'ball-

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: rsm@doe.carleton.ca (Raul San Martin)
Subject: Re: Piquet and Senna at Hungary in 1986 (WOW!)
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:06:33 GMT

In <5127@sersun1.essex.ac.uk> aghao@sersun2.essex.ac.uk (Aghanya O A) writes:

>I remember this race vividly, and I also remember shouting out (very) loudly 
>as Nelson repeatedly tried to squeeze his FW11 round Senna's Lotus 97T (?)
>At the time, I described Nelson's driving as "Real Man's Driving (tm)" :-),
>and I still think so!
...
>amazing driving by both men.
>Thanks for bringing that up - it made me smile for the rest of that day!! :-)

Yes, amazing driving by both men indeed. Thanks for bringing back those
memories again and with such vivid details. I do remember Piquet's rally-type
manouevre very well. Wow! The great Piquet!

Thanks to you.

rsm.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Mazdas @ Bonneville
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:10:22 GMT

While we're on this land speed record thread - something for
the Mazda fans, from NSSN:

"Racing Beat, an Anaheim, Calif. based house that specializes
in massaging rotary engines for more horses, is prepping a 1993
Mazda RX-7 for a crack at the C/Blown Modified Sports record of
241.48 mph at the Bonneville (Utah) Speed Trials this month.  Its
three-deck rotary will have superchargers all over it, upping its
output to 760 horses at 8,000 revs.  Other goodies on the car include
a Weismann 5-speed transaxle in unit with a custom differential with
a final drive ratio of 2:1!"

What I'd like to see them also do at Bonneville to put to rest some of
the debates that have appeared in r.a.s. in the past:
Make runs in the following vehicles:

- A current Lola/ChevB (C?) or Lola/Ford XB or Penske/Chev Indycar
- A McLaren/Honda or Williams/Renault F1 car
- A Jaguar XJR14 or Toyota Eagle MkIII IMSA GTP
- An unrestricted, dropped rear deck spoiler NASCAR Ford or Chev
- Anything else??

-c'ball-
From: esprit@netcom.com (Alan F. Perry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Sennas $0.00 offer
Date: 17 Aug 92 15:07:01 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Aug17.135524.12725@phillip.edu.au> t9014153@phillip.edu.au writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.113711.12722@phillip.edu.au>, t9014143@phillip.edu.au writes:
>> Can anyone confirm what James Hunt said at Hungary about Senna offering his
>> services to Williams next year for free.
>> 
>> No salary seems an unbelievable statement for an driver the calibre of Senna.
>> But under consideration he wants another championship badly and the records
>> that may come with this(most wins in a season for example).
>
>I heard this too, so I guess money don't matter to him anymore..
>

My understanding of Senna's financial situation is that his family was pretty
well off before he ever started making money racing.  Also, I am sure he
has earned enough money (how much has he made in the last few seasons) that
he could take a year with pay.

If Senna thinks that Williams is going to have the dominant car, then I
can see why he would go to Williams for free.  Senna still needs to beat
Prost's 40-odd victory record as well as Fangio's 5-time WC record.

alan
From: nicos@csa.bu.edu (Nicos Kontopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1: Frank Williams (was: Driver-owned teams)
Keywords: Frank Williams
Date: 21 Aug 92 20:04:21 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

Grayson Walker wrote:

>When did FW have his road accident? Remember that he is now a quadra-
>plegic. He must be attended by nurses 24 hours. He cannot control anything
>below his neck. Such a horrible personal tragedy could change the 
>personality of ANYONE!

Yes, if someone could give us some history on F.W. (his accident AND before),
please.




-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Nicos Kontopoulos                             Voice: (617) 787-1780
   INTERnet: nicos@cs.bu.edu                    BITnet: ecolpqc@buacca
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu (Jay C. Smith)
Subject: Cleveland GP Results and IndyCar stuff
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:48:22 GMT

In article <7136490203936@c00015-118dan.eos.ncsu.edu> I wrote:
>                      Cleveland GP [etc.]
>Time:  ?
>Margin of Victory:  ? (14+ seconds? 16+ seconds?)

Time:  1:30:38.527
Margin of Victory:  16.030s

And now AutoWeek is saying that Bobby Rahal will lease the Truesports shop
from Barbara Trueman and use the nearby Truesports-Ohio State wind tunnel,
too.

This probably means Truesports sponsor Budweiser will be moving to another
team, most likely to Kenny Bernstein who has Bud deals in other areas.  AW
thinks Bernstein will stick with GM engines--Buicks at Indy and Chevys 
elsewhere.

AW says CART/IndyCar's '93 schedule may include a street race in Houston,
and there is talk of a '94 schedule with a January race in Brazil, followed
by a race at a new North Miami course before setting off for Australia.  The
season would end in early September.  I can't wait to hear what FISA will
have to say about this!

AW says Emerson Fittipaldi will be staying at Penske in '93.

Last Friday's local newspaper said that Rick Mears has undergone surgery
on his injured right wrist and probably will miss the rest of the IndyCar
season.

And I've read somewhere that Galles-Kraco will probably have a new Galmer
chassis racing before the end of the year that incorporates '93 footbox 
rules.

--
Jay C. Smith
Domain/internet: jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu  uucp: ...!mcnc!ncsuvx!eos!jcsmith
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Good.  For a minute I thought we were in trouble."

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
Subject: Re: Proposal: rec.autos.formula1
Reply-To: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 13:37:02 GMT


I really would like to see a rec.autos.sport.tech.

I only read this newsgroup for the articles about technical advances
on race cars and I get sick of wasting time paging articles with
technical looking subject headings to find out its glibberish.

Richard Earl
From: Dino_P._Chiesa@transarc.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: New F-Ford engine info
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:50:57 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


poole@hpspkla.spk.hp.com (Gary R Poole) writes:
> Anyway, can anyone give me any info about this 1800cc "Zeta" engine?  Also,
> what cars (U.S.) have this engine?
> 

This is a new engine, I believe developed in the U.K. by Ford for its
Escort.  No US Fords have this engine yet, though it is supposed to
come here soon in an Escort GT.  It's supposed to be pretty hot for a
1.8 liter.  Something like 130+ hp and lots more torque than the
current Escort GT engine, which, I believe, is the basis for the
F-Ford 1600.

Sorry this isn't very specific.  If you want to know more, a while
back in the industry magazines there was some coverage of the Zeta.  I
think Autoweek may have done a 1-page article on it, and I'm pretty
sure a few others did news bits on it. 

-dpc
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui)
Subject: Re: Hungarian GP
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 20:12:02 GMT

At least now we don't need to debate anymore whether Nigel can pass
anyone cleanly or not. He did get past Gerhard Berger cleanly.

Of course, getting past Senna, even while driving a superior car,
always appears to be far more difficult.

Michael MY Hui          myhui@bnr.ca           Ottawa Canada
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (David Wilson)
Subject: Re: Hungarian GP
Organization: Schlumberger CAD/CAM; Ann Arbor, Michigan (USA)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 20:58:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug16.224815.29756@sequent.com> dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller) writes:
>
>Kinda doubt it.  But I do think that Billy Bob's seat will be open at
>the end of the year.  Schumacher's clearly earned his spurs. 
>

He certainly has.  I think that's why Brundle will KEEP his seat --
Schumacher will drive for another team next year.  And then only time
will reveal whether he would have been better off sitting tight
instead of going to Ferrari or McLaren (I won't even try to guess
which of the two it will be).

Dave Wilson

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: lms@rle-vlsi.mit.edu (Luis Miguel Silveira)
Subject: Re: Driver-owned teams; are they the best?
Reply-To: lms@rle-vlsi.mit.edu
Organization: Research Laboratory of Electronics, Massachusetts Institute of
	Technology
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 05:42:54 GMT



Emerson Fittipaldi also ran his Coppersucar team for a few years in
the late 70's.  I would not call this a successfull enterprise though...

Didn't Bruce McLaren started his own team also ?  And what about Sir
Jack Brabham ?

-Miguel

--
=============================================================================
Luis Miguel Silveira                            e-mail : lms@rle-vlsi.mit.edu
=============================================================================
Research Laboratory for Electronics  -  Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Room 36-893, 77 Massachusetts Ave,                      Phone: (617)-253-7307
Cambridge MA 02139                                      Fax:   (617)-258-7864
=============================================================================
also affiliated with:
INESC - Instituto de Engenharia de Sistemas e Computadores
Av. Alves Redol, 9-3o, 1000 Lisboa, PORTUGAL           Phone: (351)-1-3100288
=============================================================================
From: MJackson.Wbst147@XEROX.COM
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: F1: McLaren-[Indy] Ford (was Re: Potted History of Brabham)
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:27:31 GMT
Reply-To: MJackson.Wbst147@xerox.com

Received: by yngvi.wbst147 (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA11736; Fri, 21 Aug 92 09:28:10 EDT
Organization: Xerox Corporation, Webster NY

In article 16916@minster.york.ac.uk, pete@minster.york.ac.uk writes:

> The Serenissima engine was good enough to give McLaren their first point --
> it was far superior to the linered-down 4.2 Ford V8 they started out using,
> which made a lot of noise but was _far_ too short-stroke to be of any use.
> Lesson Number 1: Reducing an engine from 4.2l to 3.0l does it no good.

Does "linered-down" mean something different in the UK than it does in
the US?  My memory, your reference to "too short-stroke", and
Pritchard's /Directory of Formula One Cars, 1966-1986/ (". . .plagued
by bearing failure. . .") all suggest the stroke was reduced (by 28%!)
rather than the bore. . .

Mark <MJackson.Wbst147@Xerox.COM>
    International Racers of the World:  "One Big rec.autos.sport"
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller)
Subject: Re: Economaki on PITSTOP (8/11)
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 21:40:29 GMT

>
>Now, for those of you guys on the net who don't remember what
>motorsports coverage on TV in the 60's was (or was not):  Sometimes
>when I'm apt to bitch about some flaw in today's coverage, I stop and
>bite my tongue, 'cuz there was a time when we had, basically, nuthin'.

Yep, and I think the Trenton race was what made me insist (as a 7 year old)
that we go to the fairgrounds for the next USAC race (I lived in Springfield,
IL at the time and the '100 was a USAS points race).

I still see pix from those early Daytona races and it always makes me
smile that those guys went THAT FAST with essentially stock motors with
big cams and dual carbs.  I remember seeing Tiger Tom Pistone proudly show
off his "spare motor", strapped in the back of a pickup, saying "you can
build a good 'n for about $2000".  Those were the days.

On unrelated subjects:

	Saw the WoO race last night on American Sports Cavalcade (TNN);  
	I was refreshed by the coverage.  Brock Yates and company did a 
	nice, low-key job.

	This as apposed to being subjected to Saturday Night Thunder again,
	where the Gary and Larry show is starting to REALLY GRATE ON ME.
	
	Case in point: They yammered for 30 seconds about how bad it was
	that the leader had fallen out, without taking a second to say
	who the lucky inheritor of the lead was, or how many laps were left.

	GIMME A BREAK!  Tone it down, guys.  

	Has anyone else heard about the rumors that the previous SNT
	crew got canned because they accepted, umm, monetary blandishments
	from one of Jeff Gordon's promoters?


-- 
Dave Fuller		 	All opinions expressed are my own and not
Sequent Computer Systems	those of Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
dafuller@sequent.com
From: nicos@csa.bu.edu (Nicos Kontopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Senna, Prost & Mansell
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:57:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: bu.94191
Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <1992Aug20.144852.7785@fang.att.com> agwiii@fang.att.com (Grayson Walker (660-7949)(12/92)) writes:
>their competition was interesting. But neither Senna nor Prost is Lauda.
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Forza!
>
>-- 
>Grayson Walker                                            AGWIII@fang.att.com
>CHC, Maitland, FL                   Big brown river..... Tuli Kupferberg, 1964


One of the BEST comments in r.a.s! And it is important, so that we do not
forget where it all started from...

Thank you Grayson.



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Nicos Kontopoulos                             Voice: (617) 787-1780
   INTERnet: nicos@cs.bu.edu                    BITnet: ecolpqc@buacca
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pete@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Chapman (was Re: driver owned teams)
Date: 20 Aug 92 10:59:51 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

David Wilson (wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com) wrote:
: In article <1144@racerx.bridge.COM> james@Bridge.COM (James Montebello) writes:
: >
: >Colin Chapman never raced cars of his own construction; so, no, Lotus
: >is not on this list. While Enzo Ferrari raced cars in the '20s, he
: >never drove his own cars, which he didn't start making until after the
: >war. 
: >
: 
: I've seen a photo of Chapman driving a Lotus 49.  He wasn't even wearing
: a helmet (and I don't think the original had seatbelts)!  It may have
: been a prototype.  

I've seen that photo or a similar one too. I think he was driving the
first 49 at Hethel. Not quite as impressive as the photo of Tony Vandervell
conducting a Vanwall at obscene speeds, bareheaded and still wearing a
tie...

Pete
--
*Peter Fenelon -- Research Associate -- Software Safety Assessment Procedures*
Dept. of Computer Science, University of York, York, Y01 5DD (+44/0)904 433388
EMAIL: pete@minster.york.ac.uk `There's no room for enigmas in built up areas'
From: D.S.Walker@bradford.ac.uk (Simeon Walker)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: senna
Date: 17 Aug 92 10:31:43 GMT
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Originator: 91909178@occam

In article <1992Aug17.035329.25173@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> s1055814@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au (Richard Miller) writes:
>
>   If Senna is to go to Williams, as James Hunt says, Frank would be advised
>   to buy a quality driver rather than a quality winger!Mansell is pricing
>   himself out of the contest, obviously trying to match Senna's effort last
>   year with McLaren.
>   Mansell may be quick but only in a very good car! Senna has done much
>   better in an uncompetitive car. By the way I am no fan of Senna but I
>   am a fan of GOOD drivers.
>
>
>
>   Flames are welcome......
>                                    rich
I disagree, I would say that Mansell was driving an uncompetitive car when
he was with Ferrari! He still managed to win some races. I think it was at
Hungary several years ago when he came from 12th place on the grid to win
the race in a Ferrari, overtaking Senna in his Mclaren.

I am a fan of Mansell, but also of many other drivers, except Senna...


-- 
Sim. ----------------------------------------------------------- Simeon Walker,
----------------------------------------- Department of Electrical Engineering,
D.S.Walker@bradford.ac.uk -------------------- University of Bradford, England.
From: danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Speeds at Le Mans, Rondeau, Rondel (was: Mazdas @ Bonneville)
Date: 15 Aug 92 16:24:49 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

Robert Marti writes:
>Dan Jones writes:
>|> And what was the fastest speed ever turned at LeMans?  I'm thinking that a 
>|> Rondel (sp?) got into the low 250's at one point.
>
>I think this is correct. However, as far as I remember, the car was
>called a Rondeau (pronounced something like Rondoh, with the "on"
>actually a singly nasal "o").  I believe they used Ford-Cosworth
>DFV V8 powerplants.  
>
>What I find interesting is that there was a Formula-2 team called Rondel
>in the early 1970ies.  They first fielded Brabham BT38s with drivers like
>Bob Wollek and Tim Schenken.  Later, they designed their own F2 chassis.
>I vaguely recall that they were even thinking of entering F1, but I don't
>remember what came out of it.  Also, I keep wondering if there wasn't
>a certain Ron Dennis behind the whole thing?

Yes, Rondeau was the make I was thinking of, but Rondel was a team too like
you say.  I guess maybe thats part of my mix up.  And Ron Dennis was one of
the managers of the Rondel F2 team or something like that.  That team later
went into F1 by the name of Token for a short period.  Tom Pryce was a 
driver.  Originally, Dennis was suppose to be part of the F1 project, but 
I'm not sure if he was associated with it when it became into being somewhere
around '74.

Dan Jones