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Date:         Sun, 16 Aug 1992 11:17:00 EDT
From:         IAN YORK <YORK@MCMASTER.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: SPIN-OFF PRIMETIME SERIES ANNOUNCED!

Uncle Timmy and all the other proud parents:  Cangratulations.  If I can make
a suggestion, I think there's room for some cross-talk between this list and
yours.  Perhaps what you could do is at intervals, (monthly?) pick a poem and/or
   some of the more interesting commentary and transfer it to this list.  That
'way, you can keep the routine stuff for those specifically interested but
get more general input on topics of wider interest.  Think of it as showing
your baby's pictures to strangers on the bus.
Ian
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Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1992 13:27:25 -0500
From:         "VALENTINE M. SMITH" <CDELL@UMKCVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: On reading as a process

In 1969, a few months before I married the first time, I began keeping a
"books read" journal. Somehow, I've managed to keep it up, fine-tune it
the years, so now, when I finish a book, I write down the date I complete
it, the number of pages, the title, the author, and the date published. I
average 94,000 pages a year, about 296 books per year, averaging about 305
pages per book (I read a lot of long history books!).

Jonh D. MacDonald is only a vice in that I read him for pleasure, not for
learning, as so much of the rest of my reading is. Who is Grisham? (See,
even a well-read person can miss a lot!). VMS
From: mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU (MM)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Subject: poetasters
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:56:02 GMT
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Posted-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 12:56:02 EDT
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Uncle Timmie:

Just for that, we might do it just to torment you.

But seriously, just how easy is starting a new list?

Michael B.
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Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1992 10:54:00 EDT
From:         MJOSEPH@ZODIAC.BITNET
Subject:      well, I became

Congratulations Chris on baby boy! Hope child & mother are both okay. Did the
name Galen arrive with the seemingly interminable labor?
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Posted-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 00:23:31 EDT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 00:23:31 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      poetry group
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

As I mentioned, putting up an occasional poem with criticism or comments
going not to the board but to the poet would be one solution. Also, I have
recently been apprised of the existence of a board called Prosody, which
other of your may have heard of. Now, the word is, this board is very quiet.
Why not organize a small expeditionary force, travel there, and take up
positions. Our activity may be recognized as being legit and relevant,
especially if for the first couple of days we stage an argument about
meter versus free verse. Throw in talk about a trochee on Tuesdays.  Some
listserv editors are more tolerant of altering definition than others, I
imagine, but if the list has been quiet.... What do you think?  Michael B.
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:21:11 EDT
From:         eliz kirk <AP201111@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Byatt

The accident scene between the cars _was_ wonderful...and do you remember
how, several pages later, a large black Mercedes "grinds" past Blackadder
and Leonora?
I think that the most remarkable thing about Byatt's prose style is its
discretion, to use one of Mallarme's terms...in other words, that style
never makes itself noticeable. Everything is put into submission to her
vision of what is happening, as though the novel were creating itself. In
the end, you have to admit that makes her a master of style.
At the other end of the spectrum, Angela Carter is a "stylish" stylist of
immense gifts. Read everything you can of hers. The last sentences of the
Magic toyshop, and lines such as "Oneness with destiny lends style and
distinction", from Heroes and villains make her work unforgettable.
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:23:14 EST
From:         Entropy Warrior <AUSBROOK@UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: hello?

>The problem with this list is that it
>seems difficult to get people to get involved
>in serious discussion of the lit.  Even when

How serious is serious?

>I'm certainly willing to sacrifice bazillions of
>posts of chatter (like is found on Words-L) for
>an intermittent list filled with substance.  But

Watch out--you're likely to start a list war.

-Mka
the entropy storm continues
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:26:00 EST
From:         LESST5@PITTVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Vonnegut, mostly

Some miscellaneous thoughts on Vonnegut from a new kid on the block:

I was a Vonnegut junkie in high school and college (although I missed some of
the classics like *Slaughterhouse 5* and *Cat's Cradle* and when I go back
and look at it now, I can't really read it because the prose style is too raw
and, yes, the characters too superficial, but I can't help thinking that
still there must have been a reason I liked him so much.  Mostly, I think
of him not as a science fiction writer, but as a satirist of science fiction
writers, a sort of self-mocking incarnation of his Kilgore Trout (sf author
of *Venus on the Halfshell*).  There's an element of teasing in all of his
sci fi conceits.  LIke when the people on Mars swallow some kind of oxygen
pill and stop bothering to breath, or in *Slapstick* when the gravity goes
out of whack and there are heavy days and light days.  In plain old science
fiction, the pleasure is in half-believing what you read, but the pleasure
in Vonnegut is in *disbelieving* him.

I sometimes wonder whether Vonnegut writes with so little polish just to
tease the people who have dubbed him a capital W writer.

I also wonder whether it's guilt that keeps him from writing as well as he
could.  Mediocrity is a big issue in *Slapstick* and *God Bless You, Mr.
Rosewater.*  The lead characters in both are these bumblers or incomplete
people who succeed because their incompleteness makes them accessible. (Mr.
Rosewater, who's incredibly rich, gets his impoverished neighbors involved
in his life by paying them to catch flies; the guy in *Slapstick* makes it
big with a corny scheme to give everyone a new middle name).  So maybe
it's too psychological, but I wonder he's dealing with guilt over wartime
experiences.  I read an interview once in which he talked about how the
bombing of Dresden profited no one, not the Germans, of course, but not
even the Allies, either.  He said that in fact the only person who profited
from the bombing was him.  And he had an actual dollars/per/dead person
figure of the extent to which he had profited.

Anyone out there an Ursula K. LeGuin fan?
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Posted-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 16:53:52 EDT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:53:52 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      poetry list
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Really, even that many might be plenty, who knows?  I vote it goes forward
regardless. Mike.
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Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:20:24 GMT
From:         LITERARY <LITERARY@CLOVIS.FELTON.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: poetasters

Reply-to: Tim.Bowden@p0.f509.n216.z1.fidonet.org (Tim Bowden)
Fido-To: mbm@pacscl.uarc.upenn.edu

Been asked by my dear pal Michael to run up a flag of
poetry to see who salutes it.  Would anyone interested
in joining such a list please mail me your honorable
intentions?  Tell me how avid you are and what you are
willing to do to support the project.

GIVEN:  There shall be a poetry workshop list formed
       and policies formulated accordingly.

I suspect two hundred to be sufficient to set up the List,
but I will accept ten pledges as a starter.

Operators are standing by.


Uncle Timmie
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 22:34:23 EDT
From:         Tim Johnson <PH408014@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      writing about reading

>A mentor once told me that anything that can be *speed-read* is not worth
>reading. Anyone wish to comment on this statement in relation to the books in
>the  *last week* list?

  Oh geeze, can y'all give me a break about the "last week"
already?  I'm sorry I ever mentioned it.  Next time I'll just
say "recently."

  But, as to speed-reading; I'm not sure what you mean.  If
you mean something other than just reading quickly, then I
can't say.  Is that some sort of scanning technique or something?

  At any rate, I'd say that all those books were worth reading.

  And even more, I'd say that they were all worth discussing;
if any of you would like to talk about the books, instead of
the reader.

               thanks.

                      -Tim
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
From: jerrett@iastate.edu (Gregory A Jerrett)
Subject: Re: Science Fiction
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 23:35:37 GMT

Ian,

While I have no dispute with your opinion of SF (it is actually right on
the mark in every possible way) I do disagree with your estimation of Vonnegut.  Whoile his wrting is no
epoch shattering, I do believe that it is worth examination.  By your
own defintion, the problem with SF is that it plot driven, and I called it
self-concerned, I would state that by your own cstandards, Vonnegut doesn't
fit.  His work is usually quite experimental, often times very little actually
happens in terms of plot and story ;line.  Even his "SF" writing has less
to do with SF than it does with existentialism.  Slaughterhouse Five is
a prime example.  the SF bits of this novel are inconsequential except as a
device for the examination of the human condition.  SF readers never refer to
Vionnegut, they do not acknowledge hima as one of their own, and I do not
believe that this is because he is merely a bad SF writer, I think that it is because he is a writer of good literatureecause he is a writer of good literature
.

I would be interested in a further discussion of how Delillo and other writers are borrowing from SF, I don't see it
right off hand and would like to know your opinion .

Greg


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Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1992 12:29:37 EDT
From:         Tim Johnson <PH408014@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Nina Berberova

    "Art?  Literature?  There used to be that.  People
  read until daybreak, got swept up in politics (though
  I never have).  But now they know better.  They've
  learned.  What's left?"
    Engel walked away to the window and looked out at
  the September twilight.
    "But if you think that, then how can you live?  How
  can you die?"
    "How can you live?  Listen to this:  I was on my way
  to see a client today.  A male dog was having it off
  with a bitch on the pavement.  And do you know what I
  said to myself?  How simple happiness is."

  ....

    Astashev drew himself up.
    "I place very high demands on literature," he said
  with dignity.  "If I were a writer, I would delve
  deep into the human spirit and write somewhere between
  Tolstoy and Dostoevsky, but in French."

  ....

    The day was drawing to a close.  As usual, the elevator
  wasn't working at Klavdia Ivanovna's.  He drank tea and
  she knit.  Today they talked politics, and Aloysha tried
  to explain to his mother that the proletariat were the
  people who smelled.



                  Nina Berberova, _Ashatshev in Paris_
                       from _The Tattered Cloak and Other Novels_
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 08:49:20 CST
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From:         Melanie Willis <GS0383%SPRINGB.bitnet@SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU>
Subject:      Where is talkin?

Michael, I am sorry to hear of your dismay. I for one would be glad to comment
on any poetry submissions to this list.

My favorite poems are pretty much common knowledge type poems--the "When to
the sessions of sweet silent thought" sonnet by Shakespeare, "When you are
old" byYeats, "Sonnets from the Portuguese" by Elizabeth Barrett Browning, and
some others I can't quite recall right now. There's an old English guy named
Arnold, I think it is? He had some beautiful poetry. If I had my books here at
work I could bring up a few more, but since I'm supposed to be working right
now I should go.. .

Anyway, don't be dismayed, and send poetry please!

Melanie

Statistics & Research Consulting
782-4418
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Date:         Sat, 22 Aug 1992 07:11:20 PDT
From:         Tim Bowden <tcbowden@CLOVIS.FELTON.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Trollope

DM> I enjoyed "The Warden" and "Barchester Towers", but most of
DM> his writing reminds me of Dickens at his broadest.  (Maybe
DM> Pickwick Papers).


_Pickwick Papers_ would have to be my favorite because it was
the least maudlin of any Dickens I have read.  I like the
Victorian stylists, and George Eliot for my money is
superior to Dickens in every respect.  I was wondering
about Trollope, though, when I heard somewhere he had
a better sense of Lords and Commons in Pallisers than
did other writers with more direct personal experience.

Another for my reading list...
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Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:30:45 -0400
From:         Agnes Kruchio <kruchio@EPAS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject:      Re: Where is talkin?
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu
              92 5:43 pm

Michael -

{"I'm here", she said, in a little tiny voice. Kind of quiet, I know,
but I am still new - as well as rather busy...}

> what, and instead of talking literary I had to go over to belief-l and

 {So what, pray tell, is belief-l? And where does it live? Does it bite?}

Regards,

Agnes
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:10:02 PDT
From:         Tim Bowden <tcbowden@CLOVIS.FELTON.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: poetry list
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu
Comments: cc: mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU

UP> Really, even that many might be plenty, who knows?  I vote it
UP> goes forward regardless.  Mike.


Hey, Mike!  Only two more volunteers!  Just two!  And we have
critical throw weight!

Of course, that's what General Custer said...

-Uncle Timmie

Remember that's

   tcbowden@clovis.felton.ca.us

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"In California, the pack rat, the original old type who goes
walking from town to town with supplies and bedding on his
back, the "Homeless Brother," has practically vanished,
along with the ancient gold-panning desert rat who used
to walk with hope in his heart through the struggling
Western towns that are now so prosperous they dont want
old bums any more."  Kerouac, _Lonesome Traveler_ 1960
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 01:12:00 EST
From:         MARGARET WRIGHT <MWRIGHT@TRINCC.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Novels on disc

There are several commercial outlets available (or will be shortly). "Library
of the future" which contains over 950 titles including Jane Eyre, Wuthering
Heights, Way of all flesh, Tom Jones, Portrait of a lady, as well as all of
Shakespeare is available on CD ROM from World Library (I ordered it through
Radio Shack) and v. 1 is available on Sony's electronic book (I purchased
this through Sound Playground (a very tiny screen but it is portable while
my 486 is not!)

Apple and Random House have a contract to produce the old Modern library series
on floppies - beginning this fall I believe.  Whether these can be used on IBM
clones I don't know but the thought of having Proust on a disc with keyword
would (almost but not quite) make me buy an Apple as these floppies will be
relatively cheap.  Time-Warner is also considering getting into the act I
understand.  (This information was probably in Library journal - in June
I believe but I can't verify at the moment). J

        Maggie Wright
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 10:27:07 EDT
From:         Tim Johnson <PH408014@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Byatt

>Amusingly, Tim, you and I seem fated to have strong disagreements regarding
>literary works.  I not only *love* *The French Lieutenant's Woman* but have
>taught it to undergraduates with some success;

  Amusingly?  I think that's great.  Maybe we can discuss that a bit,
too.  Disagreement leads to much better discussion.  ("Did you like
it."  "Yup, sure did."  "Yup, me too.")  Hang on a sec., I'll pull a
the comments I wrote to another list after finishing that book and
post 'em ...

                        -Tim
From: FSCLL@ALASKA.BITNET (the First and Only Nude Vaxer)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Subject: Re: hello?
Date: 21 Aug 92 01:55:41 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

>Yes, they were all read in one week.
>
>.Yes, I thought a list of books might
>inspire a list member to post on the
>books instead of the compiler of the
>list.

                 -Tim

Maybe some of us aare just a bit jealous when it comes to having that muich
time to spend reading...

Maybe you should try starting a bit of discussion yourself as well. Posting a
list o0f books you have read says nothing to any of us that might have read
the books that you want to talk about. I can do literary backscratching at
home with any number of friends...

I'd rather have dead periods than teh amazing amount of rubbish on other
groups/lists...

chris
cooling down poet and pauper
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Posted-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 15:03:05 EDT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:03:05 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      Vonnegut
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Some of you literary people may enjoy a little synchronicity now and then.
Scrolling through messages, I came to the Vonnegut message. At message 16,
approximately 60 seconds later, the doorbell rang. The mailman rings when
he has a package that won't fit through the slot. It was a book wrapped in
brown paper: _Hocus Pocus_, which my sister had finally sent to me from
Pittsburgh. Somewhat suspicious. Michael.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 12:25:00 CDT
From:         LEISUR42@MMC.BITNET
Subject:      LENINGEN'S ANTS

                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date:     12-Aug-1992 12:21pm CDT
                                        From:     Carole Leisure
                                                  LEISUR42
                                        Dept:     Marketing and Development
                                        Tel No:   (615) 327-5940

TO:  Remote NJE Network User              ( _JNET%LITERARY@UCF1VM.BITNET )


Subject: LENINGEN'S ANTS

Does anyone remember the author of the short story, 'Leningen(?) and the
Ants' or 'Leningen's Ants' upon which the movie 'Naked Jungle' was based?
I can't find it anywhere.  Also, if it has been anthologized, I would
appreciate bib info.  Thanks.

Carole Leisure
LEISUR42%MMC@CTRVAX.VANDERBILT.EDU
615-327-5940
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Posted-Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 22:36:21 EDT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 22:36:21 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      science fiction
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Greg, The academy has been taking SF very seriously. As I mentioned a couple
of days ago, Cyberpunk is being said to illustrate much of what is contained
in postmodern theory. I noticed that there is a new book of short stories
out by J.
C.Ballard--I don't know if he is classified as SF, but the one novel I read
was very good. Philip Dick has also been recommended to me. You're right
though about elements of the tradition that turn many people off. Mike.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:58:43 EST
From:         Entropy Warrior <AUSBROOK@UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: hello?

>> Last week I read
>>
>>   Byatt, _Possession_
>>   Kundera, _Book of Laughter and Forgetting_
>>   Camus, _The Fall_
>>   Thurber, _My Life and Hard Times_
>>   Gabriel Garcia Marquez, _Love in the Time of Cholera_
>
>You read all of this LAST WEEK  ????
>                                            --Tom

That was my reaction too, Doc.

-Mka
Entre-who?
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:49:16 EDT
From:         Tim Johnson <PH408014@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Resurrecting Tolstoy

From Nina Berberova's _The Resurrection of Mozart_

    "Come on, if you're going to resurrect anyone, then
  don't resurrect Taglioni," said Fyodor Egorovich Krein
  with barely repressed irritation....  "There's no need
  to be frivolous.  I would make the best of the occasion.
  I would drag Tolstoy back into God's world.  Wasn't it
  you, dear sir, who denied the role of the individual in
  history?  You who declared that there would be no more
  wars?  And wasn't it you who took a skeptical view of
  vaccination?  No, don't try to wriggle out of it now.
  Just have a look at the result."  It was evident that
  Fyodor Egorovich had scores to settle with Tolstoy and
  that he had an entire text prepared should they happen
  to meet in the next life.


                              -Tim
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