From: slumos@unlv.edu (Steve Lumos)
Subject: Re: Why OS/2 **WILL** fail
Organization: UNLV Computer Science
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 09:33:00 GMT

In article <1abbgoINNmk6@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> craig@ec.uwa.oz.au (Craig Richmond - division) writes:
>First let me state that I am not going to get drawn into a flame war here.

Nor am I. I can get a little intense at times, don't take it personally.

>I am happy you can organise your hard disk.  You obviously don't ever share
>your computer with other people and consequently have to store files in
>folders that are not under the application.  Or maybe you should all have
>your own folder under the wp-docs directory.  I don't know which is best,

No, I don't share my PC at home much. A couple other people use
WordPerfect sometimes, but WordPerfect puts anything saved into the
wp-docs directory automatically. I love the directory tree system. K&R
knew what they were doing when they created it.

>Nobodies ever given you a disk with a file on it that you can't work out
>the program to open it with?

No. Honestly. There are programs out there that examine files to tell
you what program made them, I guess that is not nearly as effecient as
Extended Attributes.


>enough if they all have .xxx extensions which is another stupid idea.  I
>once had someone argue that it was a good thing having 8.3 filenames

Yes, 8.3 sucks. The problem is that the software base for DOS is so
huge that people can't even think of switching to something that is
not backward compatable. That's the same reason it took so long to
FINALLY get an OS that runs in 386 protected mode.

>>Oh golly! Well, the Apple IIe can't use a 1 Gig hard disk at all!
>>What's your point? I don't even have a copy of DOS 3.3, I have a copy
>>of DOS 2.11 in the closet...
>
>I never said I liked the Apple IIe.  I never owned an Apple II and I never
>wanted to.

I know. I just tried to bring up something old and outdated :-)

>I consider the macintosh Finder to be a GUI.  Things like Xtree fall half
>way between.  They are still text based but provide some of the

I like to use File Commander for OS/2 and Directory Freedom for DOS. I
would say that if anything these programs are 1/4 GUI. They are really
mode like regular text directories that you can move through and mark
files from to delete/move/copy/etc.

>functionality of a GUI.  Many DOS users always use Norton Commander of
>Xtree for doing even the simplest tasks.  Using the mac, I can click on an

That is one of the things that I hate about GUIs. For deleting either
one file or ALL files in a directory, del * or del <file> will ALWAYS
be faster than clicking and dragging.

>trash can at which point they are erased.  They can be dragged out of the
>trashcan before it is emptied if I want them back.

This is something that the OS/2 shredder does not do. Well, actually I
suppose that if you have undelete enabled, you can bring stuff back
but not as easily.

>>I have used a Mac and I hate them. Big deal. If you love them use
>>them, don't tell me what I should be using. I personally hate being
>>tied to working in graphics mode. The Mac does this and the graphics
>>are SLOW! OK, so I haven't used a sate-of-the-art Mac, but you did
>>bring up DOS 3.3...
>
>I'm sorry you hate macs and I just hope that it isn't just idealogical hate
>because you prefer PCs.  I would much rather use a macintosh than a PC.

It is not idealogical hate. I truely don't understand how somebody can
use a word processor that can't even update the screen as fast as you
can type (for example). The Mac we have here are that slow and I'm
sure that this is because they are stuck in graphics mode. I also
don't like the attutide of not telling the user what is wrong with
his/her own system. I remember a teacher I had in High School who had
a Mac problem. Our conversation went like this:

Her: There is something wrong with my hard drive.
Me: I know alot about hard drives, what is it doing?
Her: Well, my hard drive icon is blinking.
Me: What does that mean?
Her: It means that I have to take it in to a repair shop.

>I see you hate the Macintosh and I feel sorry for you.  Go and enjoy your
>PC.  It will be a long time before windows is as nice as MacOS and I have

Oh please DON'T feel sorry for me. I have used Macs. I have really
TRIED to get along with them. I think they are just too limited. For
instance I think that TWO buttons on a mouse is not enough. I (like
many others) wish that IBM had defined a use for the middle mouse
button and simulated it on two button mouses with both buttons.

>great doubts that Microsfot can ever achieve the integration that Apple has
>achieved by producing both the hardware and the software.  Only one

Well, MicroSoft is trying to monopolize the market like Apple :-)
Maybe they will come out with their own PC to compete with the Power
PC (g'zz, that is scary!)

>production model macintosh currently lacks a built in speaker.  Apple is
>moving from Localtalk to faster networking so Voicemail rather than
>telephoning and leaving messages is just a step away.  We could all rush
>out and buy soundcards for our PCs but isn't that just a tad of overkill?

Or we could configure our PC exactally as we want it. You have to
admit that there is much more flexibility in a PC. How many people
have you seen building special purpose cards for their Mac or
connecting Sega 3D goggles to their Mac?

>How many PC programs (non windows) support strange size monitors?  Oh, you
>have video drivers for 1/2 a dozen applications that you use.  How nice for
>you.  While the PC does have some things in its favour, I would sooner beat
>myself senseless against a brick wall than buy one for my home.

That is pretty extreme. IMO, Apple's attepts at look-and-feel patents
are enough to make me gag at the site of a Mac. Even if I loved the
Mac, I would not support a company like that.

>Sorry to all the OS/2 people who read this group and have no concern
>whatsoever about our differing opinions as to the merits of PCs and
>Macintoshes.  Personally I think the OS/2 People are on my sode because
>OS/2 and MacOS are both moving to a common hardware platform :-)

I think that there are a large number of OS/2 users who never bought
into the Mac or Windows because they hate being tied to graphics mode.
Text mode will ALWAYS be faster and ALWAYS be better for alot of
things that just don't need a GUI. With Windows or the Mac, you have
no choice, with OS/2 you do. That is the biggest feature OS/2 provides
for me: Freedom of Choice.

-- 
Steve Lumos - slumos@cs.unlv.edu