HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: Those Sexy Finns (was: Advice to the World Weary)
Organization: Clark University
Date: 6 NOV 92 16:03:05 GMT


amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell) writes:

>In article <6NOV92.00524853@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:
> 
>>I visited Finland once, and my fondest memories are of Finnish men.  Sexy
>>devils they were.  Robust.  Perhaps it comes from eating things like
>>silakkapihvit, kalakukko and lanttulaatikko, not to mention hernekeitto every
>>Tuesday (or is it Thursday?).  
> 
>Ah, yes, the real Finns?  The peasantry.  What are they?  Humble,
>honest, hardworking, bad self-esteem, and they drink too much.  

But peasants are so REAL.  That's what makes them sexy.  Less
talk, more action.

>I fail
>on all counts, not to mention my nationality and roots. 

Well, I've heard of Swedefinns, you might be called a Pseudfinn.

> As Tom Maddox
>and a few others might guess, my snobbery doesn't go over very well
>here.  Maybe it's that fact I keep saying "I was taught not to eat with
>the help".  

How do you say that in Finnish?  The only Finnish phrase I can remember
is "hattupainen mies ja avoauto".  As you can guess, that doesn't
help much in conversation.

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: msmorris@watsci.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Morris)
Subject: Re: Frontlash
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:17:40 GMT

                            Thursday, the 12th of November, 1992

Roger Squires writes:
	I first thought I would tear apart what Livy has C the Elder
	say, point out all the rhetorical flourishes, look up the
	references to earlier laws, see how much is actually
	substance, and how much is hot air (a good excercise, IMHO),
	but I've just started _The Satires_ and noticed this...

The Juvenal is lovely.

The translator of Livy's Cato speech, Evan Sage, remarks that we have
extant speeches or fragments of speeches from Cato the Elder and that
we can tell therefrom that the speech in Livy is not in Cato's style,
though Sage adds that it is in Cato's character. Cato's speech, by the
way, is immediately and amply rebutted in Livy with another speech,
attributed to Lucius Valerius Flaccus. One assumes that the pair of
speeches were a rhetorical exercise on the part of Livy himself, part
of the historiographical legacy from Thucydides. Personally I think
Cato's speech is laugh-aloud delightful.

Shortly after I first read it (and posted it), I was at my weekly
meeting with a professor who has been donating of her time to
larn me some Greek. We were translating from Book VI of the Odyssey
(the one where Nausikaa gets a sudden urge to do the laundry) and
the adjective _haliporphyros_ was used to describe some yarn that
the queen and her handmaidens were spinning. It means ``sea-purple'',
except the prof began explaining that Greek color terms seem to have
more to do with intensity of light than hue, and that Tyrian purple was
more like a burgundy red (or like porphyry marble) than our notion of
purple. And she began explaining the noisome procedure used to make the
dye, and she said that *real* purple dye was very, very expensive, and
that there were plenty of attempts at faking the colour, evenso that it
became a distinction of snobbery to be able to tell the real stuff from
the fake. Anyway, I suppose I may have been told in the past, but I
don't think I had ever appreciated that ``wearing purple'' wasn't merely
an insignia of rank from arbitrary custom, but that the stuff cost a lot
of money, and you had to be rich to afford it.

Anyway, I brought up Cato's speech in this context, and she was familiar
with it. That is, she gave me the impression that the speech might
be well known to students of Latin. Which occasions the question
whether it would have been well known to Juvenal. There seem to be
affinities between the two speeches, and Juvenal (c. A.D. 55-130) lived
after Livy (59 B.C.-A.D. 17). Or are maybe the affinities only
what would accrue from out of rhetorical convention, the Stoic
reactionary speech against decaying morals being a commonplace?

                Mike Morris
          (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)
From: ah@dunaad.co.uk (Alan Hunter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Et in Arcadia ego
Date: 13 Nov 92 10:06:41 GMT
Organization: Johnson Hunter Limited

In article <1dtlcpINNfbg@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu
(Francis Muir) writes: 

>We were not, however, talking about Oxford or Cambridge but about Baliol.
>Alan Hunter's Scottish History seems to have deserted him, since it was
>and still somewhat is a Scotch College founded by Devorguilla de Baliol
>for the education of a few Scots scholars as a penance exacted by Rome
>for her late husband John's slaying of some Bishops. Well, not so much 
>that he killed them as that he got caught.

I can only say thank you and apologise for my iggerance. Somehow I will
refrain from rephrasing the question with the substitution of Balliol
(they didn't care about spelling back then, did they?) for Oxbridge:-)

>The phrase "civilization as we know it" takes on special significance
>when uttered by one from the Isle of Islay, since the island is defined
>by one product, Islay Mist, to my mind the archetypal Single Malt. It
>has a peaty single-mindedness that is, Thank God, too much for many.
>Helps keep the price down. Obligatory booky reference? Oh yes, I believe
>that Islay mist was the late Sir Compton mcKenzie's favourite tipple.

Afraid I'm a bit of a ditherer, can never make my mind up as to favourite;
just have to try them all again I suppose.  Lagavulin after dinner
definitely.  OBR? err, Dick Francis - Lagavulin?  Julia May - Caol Ila?
Not really central to the plot though. 


Alan

-- 
Alan Hunter
Johnson Hunter Ltd
Isle of Islay, Scotland
A.Hunter@dunaad.co.uk          fax: +44-496-2336         voice: +44-496-2286
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: nickles@sage.cc.purdue.edu (john a nickles)
Subject: Re: Et in Arcadia ego
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 04:50:05 GMT

Muir Minor's rambling accounts of his schooldays at Oggsford 
(Oh, what bliss it was in that dawn to be alive)
remind me of an anecdote Edward Petherbridge (the most recent
portrayer of Lord Peter Wimsey) related about the filming of Gaudy Night.
"We were filming one scene and all around us dressed in the finest robes,
were the dons of Oxford, their faces shining with intellegence, imparting
learned wisdom to their surrounding admirerers. If you listened closely to
the words of these paragons of nobility, you could hear, " Yeah,
I'm doing East Enders next week."
The real dons, whose robes had spots of breakfast on them, looked
like insurance agents"

John A. Nickles
Standard Disclaimer
"Gaudeamus Igitur"

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: Well-Met in Manhattan, part 1
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:42:56 GMT

 
 
donz@ui.org (Don Zirilli <aka Posthumous O'Toole>) writes:
 
> While we leaned against the rail, whistling etc., and I slowly overcame the
> melancholy feeling of having my dream of sheila suddenly fade into a
> reality of sheila, (I eventually took comfort in the fact that even her
> lovely body, as I perceived it, was an illusion of sheila, just as her words
> were, and that, as always, reality had nothing to do with it.
 
Even after meeting sheila, I find that I still read her with the same
little voice in my head -- the one that sounds like the dwarf/psychic
in POLTERGEIST.  So, it doesn't matter that in real life, sheila does
not have the little voice, or even a trace of a Texas accent.
 
 
Mark
 
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.philosophy.misc
From: feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Michael Feld)
Subject: Re: Property Rights
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 23:49:16 GMT

For a fun, semi-scholarly treatment of the alternatives open to the
Nuremburg judges, see  Katz's _Bad Acts and Guilty Minds_.
For a more serious treatment, follow Katz's reference to the original
puzzle set by Lon Fuller.
-- 
Michael Feld                  | E-mail: <feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Dept. of Philosophy           | FAX: (204) 261-0021
University of Manitoba        | Voice: (204) 474-9136
Winnipeg, MB, R3T 2M8, Canada
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: maddona's new book?
Date: 11 Nov 92 18:36:50 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Nov10.204931.686@ab.wvnet.edu> onda@ab.wvnet.edu writes:

>	can someone send me info on maddona's new book
>	i am very *curious* as to what it is about?
>	thanks in advance.

Let's see ... the Spanish/American war?  Pork bellies?  International
investment strategies?  

I give up.  What do _you_ think it's about?


-- 
The trick of reason is to get the imagination to seize the actual world --
if only from time to time.     -- Annie Dillard, "An American Childhood"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Need help FAST on trivia question
Date: 6 Nov 92 15:14:55 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Society for the Appreciation of Janni Lee Simner

tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox) writes:
> some Wombat declaims:
>
> > "Hamlet" was first published in 1603 in a rather corrupt quarto
> > assembled from actors' memories ("To be or not to be; I there's the
> > point") and then again in 1604 in a clean version from Shakespeare's
> > original papers.  Published again in the First Folio, revised from the
> > 1604 edition.
> 
> 	A channeling wombat with answers to questions Shakespeare scholars
> have ached to answer?  A parapsychologically or preternaturally insightful
> wombat, or time-traveling one?  Unless there has been a remarkable 
> breakthrough in Shakespeare studies quite recently, all theories about 
> Shakespearean texts remain conjectural.  None of the "foul papers" has 
> ever been seen and theories about actors' memorial reconstruction, 
> while compelling in many ways, lack for actual evidence.  

Quite true, we have none of Shakespeare's foul papers (rough drafts).
But we do have foul papers of other plays, and know the characteristics
of such a draft -- inconsistant speech attributions, stage directions
fuller than a company's prompt book, loose ends that all drafts have,
and so on.  We can get a very good idea whether a book was set from
foul papers or from the prompt book.

Similarly, we know the characteristics of a text recomstructed from 
actors' memories, and when the playwright has a style as distinctive as
the later Shakespeare, it is reasonably clear when someone has the
sense of a passage but not the music.

Conjectural, but some conjectures can be held much more confidently
than others.  Remind me to rant about "Brightness falls from the hair"
sometime.

My current reference for Shakespearean studies is the Textual Companion
volume to the Oxford THE COMPLETE WORKS.  Facinating stuff.

	Larry "Who were the co-authors of 1 HENRY VI?" Hammer
--

                         \                     Time ...
LNH@physics.arizona.edu   \   Worships language and forgives
GEnie: L.HAMMER2           \  Everyone by whom it lives   -- Auden
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hasch@chem.queensu.ca (Hartmut Schmider)
Subject: Re: A rose is a rose is a rose.
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Summary: Celan's easy
Keywords: Niemand
Organization: Dept. of Chemistry, Queen's University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 00:04:42 GMT

In article <1dblt7INN9i1@agate.berkeley.edu> maverick@fir.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick) writes:

['Psalm' of P. Celan once in the German original, then in an English
 translation]

Now that's easy. And I wonder why the English version sounds almost better
than the German one. Something wrong with my ears? 
Methinks, this kind of portability means something. I'll sit right down and
try it the other way 'round, starting with ... Anybody have any suggestions 
for future projects?
					Hartmut Schmider

'Peace, peace, she cannot hear lyre and sonnet, all my life's burried here,
heap earth upon it.' (Oscar Wilde; bet I would have a hard time with that one).
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian)
Subject: Re: GENIUS:Life/Science of Richard Feynman
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:12:08 GMT


In article <28054@castle.ed.ac.uk> jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson)
writes:
>Incidentally, I found myself curious to learn more about Freeman Dyson. Any
>biographies about him?

In addition to The Starship and the Canoe, earlier mentioned, Dyson has
written a couple of autobiographical works...but the only one whose title I
recall is Disturbing the Universe. He describes his work as a young boffin in
WW 2, trying in vain to get escape hatches widened in Lancaster bombers; the
designers had made them too small and aircrews were going down in the planes
because they couldn't get out. Chilling stuff. He's a very competent writer
and of course a fount of astonishing ideas. Wait till you read about the
Orion Project, which was going to put a very large expedition in orbit around
Saturn by 1977 or so!
--
Crawford Kilian   Communications Department   Capilano College
North Vancouver BC Canada V7J 3H5
Usenet: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca
Internet: ckilian@first.etc.bc.ca

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: gwr@hedonist-1.lanl.gov (Graham W. Redgrave)
Subject: On the Nature of Laughter and its Various Meanings (Was Re: Torturing Politicals)
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:40:10 GMT

[psst ... the Subject line is a joke ... ;*)]

Just a few quotations that were lying around [gotta love these guys]:

... But if we laugh with derision, we will never understand.  Human
intellectual capacity has not altered for thousands of years so far as
we can tell.  If intelligent people invested intense energy in issues
that now seem foolish to us, then the failure lies in our understanding
of their world, not in their distorted perceptions.  Even the standard
example of ancient nonsense -- the debate about angels on pinheads --
makes sense once you realize that theologians were not discussing
whether five or eighteen would fit, but whether a pin could house a
finite or an infinite number.
                -- S. J. Gould, "Wide Hats and Narrow Minds"


The human race has one really effective weapon, and that is laughter.
                -- Mark Twain


-- 
Graham Redgrave    |    --  I don't speak for the government, 
gwr@life.lanl.gov  |        but I wish the government would speak for me ...  --
From: dont@StarConn.com (Don Tuite)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: All-Internet Cabinet
Date: 12 Nov 92 17:45:44 GMT
Organization: Starnet-Public Access UNIX--Los Altos, CA  415-949-3133

Shall r.a.b propose an all-internet cabinet for Bill Clinton? 
While I was brushing my teeth this morning, the notion: . . .
Craig Shergold for Postmaster General. . . crossed my mind.

Some further thoughts thus engendered:

Clayton Cramer, with an eye to "A well regulated militia,"
obviously deserves a spot at Defense or Education.  (Or should we
nominate Jan Yarnot for Education?)  Suze, on soc.culture.celtic,
whose .sig includes Scott's "Ye hypocrites. . . ." would be an
alternative to Clayton.

There used to be a fellow named Dan Moczny on rec.bicycles who had
a closely reasoned, moral, and very extreme position about motor
cars.  He'd be an interesting Secretary of Transportation.  As an
alternative, rec.bicycles offers Jobst Brandt, surely the net's
(and therefore the world's) foremost authority on the physics of
wheels.

There's a guy on sci.skeptic, named, I think, Brian Sienko, who'd
be a hell of a science advisor.

Then there have to be spots for some of the r.a.b.ble: Mikhail,
Francis, John W., Various O'Tooles, etc.

Nominations, anyone?

don
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: PUTTING ON THE RITZ by Joe Keenan
Reply-To: entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 05:15:04 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.184602.27463@netcom.com>, tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox) writes:
>	I would like to second Ms. Leeper's recommendations of Joe
>Keenan's books.  I think of him as a gay New York Wodehouse.  
>-- 
>				Tom Maddox
>		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
>		"The Reptoids eat humans like we eat chickens."
>				Alex Alexander

I second this second, but would have said a post modern E. F. Benson.

Erik Timmerman
From: microsoc@black.ox.ac.uk (Microsoc)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: fake accents
Date: 11 Nov 92 10:27:11 GMT
Organization: Oxford University Computing Service, 13 Banbury Rd, Oxford, U
Originator: microsoc@black

In article <1992Nov9.231256.12432@athena.cs.uga.edu> fuller@athena.cs.uga.edu (James P. H. Fuller) writes:
>
>tourf00@DMI.USherb.CA (Francis Tourillon <Tourfman>) writes:
>
>>>>D'l'aut'c^ot'e c'est passionnant
>>
>>Premierement, vous allez me faire le plaisir de cesser de simuler les accents
>>de notre belle langue.  Regardez la phrase ci-haut, c'est illisible!  Nous 
>>sommes assez intelligents pour les deviner.
>>Une apostrophe n'est pas un accent.
>
>     I agree with this wholeheartedly and wish you well in stamping out
>one particularly ugly species of Usenet idiocy.  One who reads a given
>language knows perfectly well where the accents go; one who doesn't read
>it will not be helped by fake accents.
>
>                                              -- jf
Ahhh - but who is to say it was meant to be _French_ French?
As a Jerseyman (for US readers, that's "Old" Jersey, accept no imitations...),
I feel duty bound to point out that in the Je`rrias dialect [or language?],
almost any vowel can be replaced with an apostrophe, so long as that doesn't
leave three consonants in a row....

	A` b'to^t,

	Votr' serv'teur,

		Marc Read
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: RE: Et in Arcadia ego
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:00:04 GMT
Organization: Clark University

MacFideau writes:

>The phrase "civilization as we know it" takes on special significance
>when uttered by one from the Isle of Islay, since the island is defined
>by one product, Islay Mist, to my mind the archetypal Single Malt. It
>has a peaty single-mindedness that is, Thank God, too much for many.
>Helps keep the price down. Obligatory booky reference? Oh yes, I believe
>that Islay mist was the late Sir Compton mcKenzie's favourite tipple.

Don't forget Laphroaig.

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: anand@Cadence.COM (Anand Bemra)
Subject: Re: Property Rights (was re: Progress: The New Great Divide? (was Re: Cult)
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:57:51 GMT

colten@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (marc.colten) writes:

>As for property rights themselves - when do they begin?  Who owns
>land in America?  I "own" about 3/4 of an acre, which I bought
>from someone who bought it from someone else. Follow that trail
>back far enough and you find some king giving the property to
>a loyal subject - neither of whom had ever been here.

Great. We will just skip over those native american indians who
did not have a piece of paper to show the white folks that they
really owned the land!

Would you believe it. This was the logic put forth by a teacher
at San Jose State University for a history class. Or was it
a sociology class? I forget.

BTW, Mark, make sure you have the papers for your house, tv, sofa, etc.
Someone might just drop by and claim that those things belong to them!

anand
--
Screw PBS & NPR news. Tired of news "sanitized for your protection?". Try:
misc.activism.progressive, "Lies Of Our [NY]Times", "Z" magazine (Boston).
KPFA 94.1 FM (Bay Area), 90.7 (L.A.), 90.1 (Houston, TX), 89.3 (Washington, DC)
These are my opinions, not my employer's.
From: ian@spider.co.uk (Ian Heavens)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: What do you all think of the Situationists?
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:19:27 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK.

In article <TSDAVIES.92Nov3020216@mothra.syr.EDU> tsdavies@mothra.syr.EDU (T.S. Davies) writes:
>
>	_The Revolution In Everyday Life_
>	  -- Raoul Vaneigem, Paris, 1967

This, "The Book of Pleasures" by the same author, and Guy Debord's 
'The Society of the Spectacle' are the primary texts in book form, as 
far as I know.  Collections include "The Situationist International 
Anthology", ed. Ken Knabb, 'BAMN -By Any Means Necessary", by 
Peter Stanshill and David Zane Mairowitz.  Anyone know of others?

There are several 'Situationist' pamphlets and
magazines published here: "Spectacular Times",  some titles from
Rebel Press, (both published from the address of Freedom Press in
Whitechapel, London, which also publishes 'Freedom' itself, the
world's longest running anarchist newspaper, founded by Kropotkin in
1886), and some magazines such as 'Fatuous Times' and 'Leisure'
originating from Cardiff.  

They appear to have sprung up after the 1956 Soviet invasion of
Hungary, which destroyed an attempt to set up workers' and peasants'
councils (anyone know anything more about this?), and are clearly
influenced by Surrealism, Dada, and Cabaret Voltaire.  They
were active in the May 1968 agitation in France, and as the
Provos in Holland (I believe that Provos were elected to local
councils).

'Fatous Times' has an interview with a British member of the
Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, the SF-based organisation of 
gay male nuns.  Is Situationism a  mainly European movement
(if you can call it that) or are there other groups?

I hope I've not committed a faux pas by actually mentioning
the subject of the thread.....I welcome more incisive contributions
on the subject.

I rather like them, myself (I've done a lot of arithmetic too).
I think that they represent the most creative and (occasionally)
wittiest radical criticism of 'modern life'.  

If you think they're nonsense, what do you think of EuroDisney?

ian


---
	 Ian Heavens			ian@spider.co.uk                 
 	 Spider Software
 	 Spider Park, Stanwell Street		
	 Edinburgh, EH6 5NG, Scotland	+44 31 555 5166 (Ext 4347)
--
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ashall@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Andrew S Hall)
Subject: Re: What do you all think of the Situationists?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:49:42 GMT

Andrew Hall
From: wagner@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Truth According to Mickie Medved
Date: 7 Nov 92 18:24:24 GMT

In article <BALDWIN.92Nov6144236@csservera.scs.usna.navy.mil>, baldwin@csservera.scs.usna.navy.mil (J.D. Baldwin) writes:
[ humor {or maybe not} with touchy subject matter deleted]
> You may not find it funny, but to *refuse* to find it funny, due
> solely to the subject matter, is the mark of a truly humorless man.
> All humor above the level of knock-knock jokes is based on the
> misfortune of others (or, sometimes, of ourselves).  There are a
> number of theories about this, but I'll spare you.
> --
>  From the catapult of:              |+| "If anyone disagrees with anything I
>    _,_  J. D. Baldwin, Comp Sci Dept|+| say, I am quite prepared not only to
>  _|70|___:::)=}-  U.S. Naval Academy|+| retract it, but also to deny under
>  \      /   baldwin@usna.navy.mil   |+| oath that I ever said it." --T. Lehrer
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I've heard this line before, and I don't like it.  I don't like it because
humor is a many-splendored thing, good for quiet musings in field and forest,
good for debates in bars, and good for laughing.  So I don't like it when
somebody goes and says that all humor is the avatar of some Higher Principle,
especially when the higher principle applies cleanly only to pie-in-the-face
humor.
	A counterexample:  There is a honeymooners episode where Norton
spends about two minutes gleefully peeling an orange.  Busts me up every 
time I see it.  Jackie Gleason liked it too.  Whose misfortune has hit 
our respective funny spots?  Norton seems pretty happy, and there's no-one
else in the room.
						-Luke