HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: aids conference in cuba
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:20:46 GMT

> ronp@dazixca.ingr.com (Ron Phillips) writes:
>> nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:

>>  2.) The fact that doing this would require a Constitutional and 
>>      major statutory changes, not to mention a major mindset change,
>>      whereas aggressively attempting to develop a cure would not.
>>      Cuba is a police state.  For a free country to take away 
>>      your civil rights for the "crime" of being sick opens up a 
>>      lot of scary doors.
>
>What "Constitutional and major statutory changes" would be 
>required?  The various state/county/municipal health codes allow
>quarantine for potentially fatal diseases (smallpox, diptheria).
>Why would the addition of AIDs infectees to the list of those
>who can be quarantined require something different?

Those diseases are contagious -- they can be transmitted by
casual contact; carriers are infectious and sick for a
relatively short period -- they either die, or get well and
the quarantine is lifted.  AIDS is not easily transmitted --
you have to do something to be infected; people with HIV can
live healthy, productive lives for many years; it's still not
certain that all HIV+ people will ever develop full-blown
AIDS; but their HIV+ status remains presumably for life.  To
lock HIV+ people up for life -- some for decades -- would
require constitutional changes of a Hitlerian order.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: GA.JRG@forsythe.stanford.edu (June Genis)
Subject: Re: JUNE GENIS IN THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER!!
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 21:57:44 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.164241.13921@odin.corp.sgi.com>,
zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide) writes:
>>June Genis, Libertarian
>
>>Supports loosening and simplyfying immigration laws to allow people to
>>work if they are willing to give up entitlements or welfare.  Says
>>illegal immigration would fall dramatically under such a plan.
>
>Well, of course it would fall. Since you would essentially be legalizing the
>current system. Since another Lib. proposal is the removal of the
>minimum wage, this position is just taking Herschenson's position
>above board. June, how do you feel about the citizenship issue?

I think it's appropriate to require someone to have been a resident
of a country for some period (I'm willing to negotiate the length of
the period) before giving them a right to vote.  People should have
some stake in the country either by virtue of family roots or
financial investment to have a legal voice in shaping it's future.

/June
Xref: sparky ca.politics:6017 soc.culture.asian.american:7119 soc.culture.african.american:8269
From: galan@netlink.cts.com (Greg Gross)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: 1 white male among new San Jose firemen of 22
Date: 25 Jul 92 08:27:09 GMT
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:

> 
> >The idea is not -- repeat, *NOT* -- to have whites experience the
> >pains of racism simply because they are white. It never was. The
> >idea was/is to let the victimizer (TRANSLATION: those whites who
> >hold racist attitudes and engage in racist conduct) walk in the shoes
> >of the victim (TRANSLATION: the non-whites on the receiving end of
> >such attitudes and conduct) in the hope that the victimizer will
> >awaken to the evil s/he is doing...and desist.
> 
> Greg, how do you intend to distinguish between racist and non-racist
> whites for this purpose?  Seems to me like this is a really pathetic
> rationalization of racism.  Maybe we should beat up Blacks because
> Blacks have a higher crim rate than Whites.  The ideas is not --
> repeat, *NOT* -- to have blacks experience the pains of crime simply
> because they are black. It never was.  The idea was/is to let the
> victimizer (TRANSLATION: those blacks who commit crimes) walk in the
> shoes of the victim (TRANSLATION: the non-blacks on the receiving end
> of such conduct) in the hope that the victimizer will awaken to the
> evil s/he is doing...and desist.
> 
What's pathetic, Michael, is your attempted analogy...
 
On the other hand, I wouldn't have much problem with black criminal
suspects experiencing some of the emotional trauma they inflict on 
their victims -- especially given the fact that the overwhelming
majority of their victims are black, anyway.
 
In any case, the whole question is moot, since there is no practical
way to actually execute that idea. Pure wishful thinking. Although
I don't think I'd have much trouble identifying racists who were
eligible for it. In fact, that's the only aspect of it that *is*
workable. 
G.
> 
> >  This is *not* about retribution, revenge, retaliation, payback.
> >It is about finding a way to induce certain people to desist from
> >certain hurtful attitudes and behavior. Nothing more, nothing less.
> 
> Which people?  How do you plan to identify them?
> 
> 
> -- 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.


--
Gregory Alan Gross      Welcome to life, where no good deed goes unpunished.
San Diego Union-Tribune         (619) 293-1270 (voice)
P.O. Box 191                    (619) 293-2333 (fax)
San Diego, CA 92112-4106        galan@netlink.cts.com (Internet)
From: brian@baja.Corp.Sun.COM (Brian Edge)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: The Monster Without Compassion
Date: 30 Jul 92 22:49:18 GMT
Reply-To: brian@baja.Corp.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: baja.corp.sun.com

> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes: 

>Intentionally kept ignorant?  HOW COULD YOU?  Everywhere I go, there
>is literature, much of paid for from government funds, warning 
>everyone, in every age range, about the hazards of AIDS.  There are
>privately funded advertising programs.  Every household in America
>received a flyer about it a couple of years ago.

You're talking about now, what information was out in 1984, 1985??
Not a hell of a lot.  The people that are dying now were infected back
then.  We won't know how effective the literature distributed today is
until 2002.

>Ignorance isn't the problem.  Willful self-destruction is the
>problem.

You can't be that dumb....can you??  Willful self-destruction??  Why
would anyone want to go thru AIDS??  Do you have any idea what AIDS
does to a person??  If I have sex with a woman and she give me AIDS,
I have it coming to me, I deserve that??  If I wanted to die, there
and many other less painful and quicker ways.  If you really believe
that people willfully expose themselves to AIDS, you're more of an
idiot than everyone thinks.


Brian@baja
From: mgm@clipper.ingr.com (Mike Marfell)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: I'm enraged.
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:27:02 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Intergraph Advanced Processor Division - Palo Alto, CA

In article <1992Jul17.034623.7398@cheshire.oxy.edu>, leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:
> 
> I goddamn resent falling straight out of the middle class economically...
> 
> Thom

         And falling right out of daddy's middle class MONEY!  

                                                    Peace

                                                        -Mike
-- 
            "Just a little knowledge can be dangerous"  ....Burmashave

Mike Marfell                                      mgm@clipper.ingr.com
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: GA.JRG@forsythe.stanford.edu (June Genis)
Subject: Herschensohn is a hypocrite
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 21:34:54 GMT

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE           Contact: June Genis, 415-851-5224
July 26, 1992                                     or 415-723-4422
                                         Jerry Pico, 415-664-2539


                  LIBERTARIAN CALLS HERSCHENSOHN'S
                       DEBATE AD HYPOCRITICAL


Woodside -- Libertarian Senate candidate June Genis said today that
Bruce Herschensohn's claim to want "a great campaign of ideas" is
just "hot air and political posturing." Genis says her offers to
debate both of her major party opponents should have reached them by
the time Herschensohn started airing his TV ads inviting only Boxer
to debate.

"If Bruce really wanted a campaign of ideas he would be just as
ready to debate with me as with Barbara", said Genis, "especially in
view of his criticism of Tom Campbell for not debating him more
frequently during the primary campaign".  Instead, Genis says, both
Herschensohn and Boxer have refused to respond in any way to her
challenge.

In Genis' opinion what they really want is to emphasize the polarity
of their positions in order to scare people into voting for them.
"Herschensohn does not want voters to know that there's a
pro-choice, fiscally conservative alternative out there, and Boxer
wants everyone to believe she's the only woman saying that Germany
and Japan should pay for their own defense."

"The Perot phenomenon clearly shows that people are dissatisfied
with both the Democrats and the Republicans," Genis said and claims
she is "the only true moderate and outsider" in this contest, one
that is acceptable to more people than either of the extremes
offered by Herschensohn and Boxer.  That is, she says, if people
have the opportunity to find out about her.

"I don't expect to be able to compete financially with either of
them.  My campaign is a grass roots effort that will depend on one
person telling another and asking them to in turn tell someone else
that they do have a real, viable alternative in November".  She said
that while she remains ready to debate at any time and any place,
she doesn't expect either of her major party opponents to do
anything to let voters know they have another choice.

Genis, a computer programmer at Stanford University was the
Libertarian candidate for Congress in the 11th district in 1990 and
for California's 20th Assembly district in 1988.  In 1989 she lead a
successful referendum effort which forced San Mateo county
supervisors to reverse a 24% pay raise they had given themselves.
The Libertarian party gained permanent ballot status in California
in 1980 and has offered a ballot qualified presidential slate here
since 1976.

                               [END]
From: pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Support for Boy Scouts
Date: 23 Jul 92 12:55:34 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Image Processing Lab

In article <1992Jul23.161346.17720@unlinfo.unl.edu>, rlosee@unlinfo.unl.edu (Robert Losee) writes:
> The BSA has its promise, and point twelve of the law.  On my weekend
> at camp a few days ago I found prayer began each meal.  Church
> services were available for those who wished to participate.  The
> program requires all who enter to sign that they believe in some sort
> of God, and they remove those who deny the existence of some sort of
> God.  I'm in the Cub Scout part of the program where each rank
> advancement has portions requiring scouts to discuss or in some ways
> act on their religious beliefs.  They support God & Country awards as
> part of the program.
> 
> In short the BSA is still non-secular.  I'd like to see it stay that
> way.

I wonder if religious activity in the BSA varies from region to region.  Your
description doesn't match my experiences with the BSA.  For example, we did
not begin meals with a prayer.  There were no church services associated with
the BSA.  We did not have to sign anything about the existence of God, nor in
fact was this even discussed.  In the Cub Scouts, we didn't have to discuss
or act in any way on our religious beliefs.

In short, the BSA group that I joined was decidedly secular.  I'd like to see
it stay that way.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Bartholomew          |   "The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of
                          |    many things..."                  Lewis Carroll
pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov   |   Disclaimer:  Opinions?  What opinions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Subject: Re: "Homophobic Rampages"?
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:58:47 GMT

In article <11359@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

>I'm told that happened; I would be more impressed if the Gay Perotistas
>hadn't been excluded, but NAMBLA had been.

The gay perotistas (good term) were excluded by the city, not by the
parade committee.  It seems they invoked a clause concerning parades that
had never been used before.


FWA
From: jlbrand@pb2esac.UUCP (Jack Brand)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Against Our Will
Date: 29 Jul 92 23:28:00 GMT
Reply-To: jlbrand@pb2esac.UUCP (Jack Brand)
Organization: Pacific*Bell ESAC, Oakland, Ca.

In article <92241@bu.edu+ kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
+In article <11448@optilink.UUCP+ cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
+
++However, females (for many reasons, both cultural
++and biological) are considerably less likely to respond to abuse
+     ^^^^^^^^^^
++with violence.
+
+You stooge! You have the nerve to call me a sexist for pointing out
+that their are slight biological differences between male and female
+brains, and therefore their approach to problem solving, and now
+you say they are partly biologically disposed to self-destruction as
+a response to abuse.
+
+Hypocrite.

You noticed that, eh?  Yes, one would think that the fence would be pretty
worn down by now from a few years of Mr. Cramer hopping back and forth over 
it to suit whatever argument he's currently making.

jb
From: asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Help for California Libraries! Dire Need!
Date: 29 Jul 92 19:44:56 GMT
            <1992Jul19.080439.7633@adobe.com>
            <14msgrINNidm@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
            <1992Jul28.203419.2370@Cadence.COM>
Reply-To: asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Followup-To: ba.politics,ca.politics
Distribution: ca
Organization: Foundation for the Increased Wealth of Chipmunks

Written in article <1992Jul28.203419.2370@Cadence.COM>
 by phz@cadence.com (Pete Zakel):

: In article <14msgrINNidm@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> stephen@orchid.UCSC.EDU writes:

:> My point is the question, it does not reflect my personal attitude,
:> I know many people who would say "I don't have any children, why
:> should I pay school taxes?".

: And you should tell them that not paying school taxes will cost them more
: because the less educated a child is, the more likely s/he will grow up
: to steal, rob, mug, disturb the peace, be on welfare, and otherwise cost
: you for tax revenues many times what the school taxes would have cost.

I've heard this numerous times, and until now, I believed it.  On faith.

Now, I no longer believe this on faith.  Therefore, I'd like some
evidence to back up this assertion.  Failing evidence, which may be
lacking, I'd settle for a logical discourse.

What you must prove:

1) The state of un-educated-ness leads to a life of crime.  Necessarily, 
    or as a tendency.
2) This educated-ness must be provided by the govt.  Necessarily.
3) The govt schools are providing this educated-ness.  There appears to 
    be numerous studies indicating this assertion, at least, is false.

: Remember: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Be that the case, I'm surprised the budget is as low as it is.  Surely
there must be zillion$ we could spend using this same "logic."

: (NOTE for those not sufficiently educated: There are 16 ounces in a pound.)

NOTE for those overly educated, there are 12 ounces in a pound.

:- Pete Zakel

-- 
The Chipmunk.
Opinions are mine, batteries not included, void where prohibited.
It seems like the less a politician amounts to, the more he spouts
devotion to the flag.
From: pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Against Our Will
Date: 28 Jul 92 10:37:16 GMT
Distribution: na,world
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Image Processing Lab

In article <1992Jul25.155245.8290@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, dbetz@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Drew Betz) writes:
> In article <11400@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>>2. I now have children, and I worry for their safety.  I have
>>discovered, by reading soc.motss, and watching the coverage of
>>gay parades, that there is substantial support for child molestation
>>in the gay community -- perhaps not a majority, but certainly a
>>large enough minority that there has been great reluctance to
>>exclude groups like NAMBLA.
> 
> [other stuff about gays molesting children deleted]
> 
> If Clayton is correct, I would forward that the gay community is
> doing itself considerable damage by not actively denouncing child
> molestation.  Gays are already fighting an unhill battle for
> acceptance: Asking mainstream America to accept an alternative
> lifestyle that includes sex with children is a public relations
> disaster.  And why would a majority of non-molestors even
> *want* such a minority among themselves?

They don't and Clayton isn't correct.  He's been posting this trash to various
newsgroups for more than a year now along with other unsubstantiated trash
(e.g., gays are products of child molestation; gays are psychologically
disturbed; homosexuality is a disfunctional lifestyle; homosexuals are trying
to recruit children; the "overwhelming majority" of homosexuals support
child molestation; homosexuality is a choice; etc.).  None of the above is
true and he has never done any research nor posted any evidence to sub-
stantiate his claims.  His homophobia has been well-established by now.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Bartholomew          |   "The time has come, the walrus said, to talk of
                          |    many things..."                  Lewis Carroll
pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov   |   Disclaimer:  Opinions?  What opinions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dreger@seismo.gps.caltech.edu (Doug Dreger)
Subject: Re: survey benchmarks
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: ca
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:48:35 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.162658.9112@qualcomm.com> karn@chicago.qualcomm.com (Phil Karn) writes:
>Yes, I believe you're right, but isn't it true that fault zones (at
>least in California) typically consist of weak, shattered rock a few
>hundred feet wide so you are never really sure exactly where the
>surface faulting will occur? If the faulting misses your structure it
>may well survive if it is well built to withstand the shaking because,
>as you say, the intensity doesn't vary all that strongly with distance
>for the first few miles.

Just for clarification there are laws in place to try to
minimize damage in fault zones.

In California there is an act called the Alquist Priolo Act, which
I believe began soon after the San Fernando EQ.  This act identifies
known active faults, and outlines a region around the fault in which
detailed studies to identify past surface offset are required before
any building can take place.  The act requires trenching of the
site in any area in which a habitable structure is to be built to
identify past events in the substrata.
Unfortunately, I don't have the report
handy, but if memory serves me, I believe the boundaries around the
faults extend to about one-half of a mile.  If there is any recent
offset identified, then structures meant to inhabited cannot
be built in that area, but may be built at some offset distance
from the fault.  I don't recall what these distances are.

Doug
Xref: sparky ca.earthquakes:742 sci.geo.geology:1715
From: jml@solara.ssl.berkeley.edu (Jonathan Loran)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: "Hot, dry weather causes earthquakes"
Date: 22 Jul 92 00:29:17 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: University of California Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: solara.ssl.berkeley.edu


In article <1992Jul21.035216.931@aero.org>, helfman@aero.org (Robert S. Helfman) writes:
|> 
|> That day in San Francisco, because of the Mono condition, the wind was
|> blowing from the east, and when the fire started near the Embarcadero,
|> it swept west pretty much unimpeded until it reached Van Ness. If the
|> weather had been normal (that is, the usual strong westerly), the
|> fire would not have been as disastrous.
|> 
|> But it's a pretty safe bet that the weather had absolutely nothing to
|> do with the earthquake itself!
|> 
|> Incidentally, I believe the great urban fire of 1923 in Berkeley also
|> took place during a Mono condition.

The Oakland hills fire last fall also occured during a mono condition.
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: stgprao@xing.unocal.com (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: rain and earthquakes
Originator: stgprao@xing
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:34:45 GMT

In article <50981@seismo.CSS.GOV> stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead) writes:
>Sure, but I guess it's a matter of what boxes you want to put your quakes
>in.  To me, a classic intraplate quake would be something like the Borah
>Peak quake or the quakes near Alice Springs in Australia, etc.  These are
>quakes that have no direct fault links to the plate bounding faults.
>Failed rifts are a direct link to the plate bounding faults and some may
>represent active rifting - a plate boundary in the process of forming.
>Afterall, we know that the Mississippi embayment has been progressing
>north since the formation of the Atlantic, that the Saint Lawerence
>seaway is a continuous region of current seismicity and the only thing
>separating these two is an old suture through the craton.  Both also
>terminate against plate bounding faults.  This could be the separation
>of North America into two plates.  So is it intra-plate or not?  I'd like

The internal rigidity of plates in plate tectonics is an useful approximation,
not an absolute.  The major plates move with respect to each other from one to
twenty centimenters a year in a consistent direction for hundreds of thousands
of years or longer.  There are lots of minor motions between "parts" of the
major plates on the order of millimeters a year or not in a consistent
direction for long lengths of time.
There is hint from VLBI radio astronomy and GPS surveys that these small 
internal differential motions are very common.
When these measurements increase, we may be able to better determine the
internal strains of North American plate.
There have been only a few dozen VLBI stations.  I think systematic GPS
measurements are about in the thousands now.  Satellite SAR infereometry has
the potential of observing billions of locations cheaply when those programs
get in production in the next few years.
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes