HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Date:         Sun, 13 Dec 1992 23:17:57 LCL
From:         RJ <RJCHIN@SUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      English is the best language...

I've been following the discussions on the above subject matter but hesitated t
o jump in right away.  It's a far cry to say that Rooney's comments were
racially motivated, because he couched his comment in a way that left the
listener in a position to interpret his meaning.  In my opinion, the comment
was insensitive to Asians and especially Japanese Americans.

Here's a citation:
"On his widely distributed newspaper column, Andy Rooney mockingly referred to
Rockerfeller Center as 'Lockefell Center' and said without apology, 'I'm vaguel
y anti Japanese.  Don't ask me why.  Just prejudice, I guess.  I'm very comfort
able with some of my prejudices and have no thought of changing them now'".
    The Dark Heart of Japan-Bashing, San Francisco Sunday Examiner, 3/13/90
    in This World (a section of the Sunday paper)

It's true that one cannot get upset over petty comments like Rooney's but he is
a national figure and one that can influence national opinion -- opinion that
perpetuates hate against Asians--Americans that have nothing to do with the
trade deficit, the automobile industry, wars...

At least I know where he stands and for this freedom of speech is good.
Less he forget the 442nd regimental team of Japanese Americans who
fought heroically in WWII.  They were the most highly decorated batallion
of those who fought in that war.      ~rj
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Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:52:00 CST
From:         Garry Dyck <gdyck@CCU.UMANITOBA.CA>
Subject:      God

I have a difficult time with comments like those expressed by Kerry.

"God , Allah, Yehovah, Jesus, Buddha, Brahma, and other people's gods
who I do not know (the names) bless you all!!"

This is acceptable only to the followers of Buddha and Brahma but not
to the followers of God (with a capital), Allah, Yehovah or Jesus.  The
Islamic Allah, Yehovah and Jesus are mutually exclusive according to their
own doctrines.  (Although Mohammad said that Christians and Jews were also
people of the Book.)  I site this not to be picky, but to raise the issue
that we can to a CERTAIN extent cooperate with out agreeing on theological
issues.

I believe in the one true God.  If you list Him with other gods, I know
that you can not be sincere in your wishes.  If you only mention the god
that you believe in and that god is not the one that I believe in, I can
begin to understand you better.  If you mention mutually exclusive
beliefs, I can only assume that you believe that mutually exclusive
beliefs are compatible.  That would indicate little knowledge of these
religions.

Someone indicated that we need to identify our beliefs.  Maybe this is a
good place to begin...

Garry
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:30:05 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Interpretations of God

Garry,

I see no reason why two people with different and contradictory beliefs
cannot work together.....even if the two feel that the OTHER is wrong
about one issue....religion and God....

I can work with you, however, I would not be interested in exchanging
views and opinions with anyone who feels they have absolute
knowledge of any specific subject...  I have no wish to have a debate
with you on religion and God.....

I do have and have had many discussions on God and religion with Muslims,
Christians, Hindus, and Budhists but there was one essential difference..
we all felt that we had chosen different paths....and noone was really
wrong....and perhaps one might have felt that their path was more
correct than the next.....

I have felt that getting to a "heaven" is open to all good people
whether they kneel to Allah or believe in many Gods....

I am not clear as to what you mean by saying that you feel your
beliefs are right and everyone else's are wrong...Does that mean that
all muslims or all Hindus or all Budhists are headed for HELL ?

zahir
From: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Re: before birth...
Date: 17 Dec 1992 06:50:50 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
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In a previous article, AKARP@GONZAGA.BITNET () says:

>
>RELIGIOUS ABSOLUTISM, as touted by the Religious Christian Right, is
>very closely linked to nationalist socialism, bloody patriotism,
>racism, sexism, antisemitism, homophobia and the like.

Ahem.  Adam, by making this statement, you just earned yourself a small
lecture.  I'm fairly fresh from a major argument concerning statements like
this, and will pull out the stops and get *very* nasty if forced to it.
To make a long tirade short, I *am* a conservative Christian, and am
extremely insulted when anyone makes assumptions like the above about
any other -ism I or my coreligionists may or may not espouse.  It simply
isn't true for the vast majority, and anyone who thinks it is is either
ignorant, listening to too many far left speeches, or just plain
needs a reason to hate conservative Christians.  I've had most of the
above thrown at my face at one time or another, and it simply isn't true.
It never was, and never will be.  I *am*, on the other hand, strongly
anti-ignorance and anti-stupidity, and will gladly own up to those.
And yes, as you put it, I do think those who don't share my basic beliefs
are headed for Hell.  That's all I'm really willing to say on the matter,
though, as chances are no one would be listening anyway....:-/

>Religion, I state again, is an important, albeit socially necessary,
>aspect of human existence; but, I state again, it cannot be used to
>draw lines in the sand.  Celebrate
>
>Celebrate differences yes; celebrate supremacy no.

This I can agree with, wholeheartedly.  Drawing lines in the sand is for
litle children who don't know the meaning of the word "share".  Each 
"absolutist" religious group thinks the others are headed for something
unpleasant.  OK, old story.  Next question.
-- 
		###	Ruth Hanschka, the Nethead    ###
			- ap290@cleveland.freenet.edu
	      Where anything can happen, and it usually does
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:38:00 PDT
From:         AKARP@GONZAGA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Interpretations of God

And, pity it is, Sadat was assassinated after this comment.

Whether or not someone accuses Sadat of liquidating religion to the lowest
common denominator, I must say that he was on the right track.

Say, should we start an institutionalized naturalistic religion?  Or would that
be too dogmatic...

ERACISM
adam karp
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 11:40:36 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: God

And Gary....

I am sorry if I did not get the original point.....  I was  born a Muslim,
lived among Hindus and christians, came to the U.S. and ....at this time,
I cconsider myself an agnostic.... Being in the international education
field, primarily socializing with international faculty and students,
living with an American spouse and in-laws, I suppose I am always
communicating across cultures....and religion is really not as much
a factor as a lot of other more cultural issues...

zahir
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Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 10:17:36 CST
From:         Garry Dyck <gdyck@CCU.UMANITOBA.CA>
Subject:      Christian
              APPARENTLY." at

In an earlier message, an assumption was expressed about Christians who
hold to an absolute God.  Many people who I know in that category vote for
the NDP, a socialist party in Canada, believe in increased aid for less
developed countries, are opposed to abortion on demand, are pacifists and
would like to see corporations and not low and middle income families pay
the bulk of taxes.  The media has consistently painted another picture.
Prejudice makes this largely inaccurate generalization fact.


Politically, Christians usually do not fit neatly into a package.


Garry
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Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:46:00 +0200
From:         TOMY_ACE@EGAUCACS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: News from Germany

Uwe wrote,


>Even more demonstrations against racism this weekend. In Hamburg several
>hundreds of thousands of people light their candles to protest against
>right wing violence. The riverside of the Alster was light up by
>Thousands and thousands of candles.


It is really a relief to hear this news which was already broadcast all
around the world. Finally the German people are taking positive action
to show the neo Nazis that they should stop the wave of violence against
foreigners which reached dangerous levels  in the last year.
I hope that thes neoNazis would seize the violence after some people
expressed their opinions about it in this demonstration and also as we
hear in the media your government is taking strong measures against this
racist neoNazi movement.

Hatem
Cairo-Egypt
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From: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: squeaky wheels and perceptions of Americans
Date: 20 Dec 1992 22:29:38 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
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Dougal, I'd say that the hurricane survivors on camera were the squeaky
wheels.  The self-reliant folks were the ones too busy hamering down new
shingles to talk to camera crews.:-)  Then too, Homestead isn't exactly
the high-rent district.  A lot of people in places of low income and big
government are taught to expect a bailout should disaster strike.  They got
one, too.  I've lived through three hurricanes up in New England, and while
they weren't anywhere nearly as bad, people were still screaming for
government help.  A lot of people kept their mouths shut, cleaned up the mess,
and kept on going, though.  It's a mix.


I'm not trying to defend anything, believe me.   The American media aren't
exactly the best place to get cultural information:-)  Well, maybe Looney 
Tunes are....<grin>  That seems to be the world view of American life
anyway...sanity isn't exactly at a premium....

-- 
		###	Ruth Hanschka, the Nethead    ###
			- ap290@cleveland.freenet.edu
	      Where anything can happen, and it usually does
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Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 14:04:00 PDT
From:         AKARP@GONZAGA.BITNET
Subject:      KKK Update

For those of you in the Austin, Texas area: Check out the KKK march
on January 16 in 'protest' of Martin Luther King, Jr.'s birthday on the
18th.  Show up in full force.  This info tidbit was taken from PEACENET.
For more info, I'm sorry I can't give you the number.

ERACISM
Adam Karp
akarp@gonzaga.edu
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:10:00 PDT
From:         AKARP@GONZAGA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Have a wonderful holiday

Matt:  Now that's the spirit!!

Earlier this evening I had a discussion with some close friends of mine, in
our campus human rights organization and we were discussing how some people
assume various things about other people.

It led to a dialogue about white and male privilege.  (If someone needs
explication about these theories then please ask)  Shortly I became aware
of two other forms of privilege (at least in the USA)-- Christian and
heterosexual privilege.  As a Jew I realize that when people say Merry
Christmas, most of the time they mean to say, "Have a wonderful, merry,
blessed moral vacation, of sorts,"; the stress on what Christmas really
means, (i.e., not the tree and gift-giving but the birth of baby Jesus),
is probably not inferred.  As a Jew, I become aware that during the few
months preceding Christmas vacation, the media, school, peers, malls,
everything rings out christian messages, making me forget that I am
still fundamentally a non-christmas celebrator.  Assimilation tends to
set in and I feel ill at ease to say, "And have a Happy Hanukkah to youurn"
too..."  In

A friend of mine in the human rights group is gay and recognized a similar
dilemma; for example, when people ask, "Do you have a girlfriend?" or
"When are you going to get married to a nice, Catholic girl?"  The answers
are obvious, and the underlying tension is even more evident.
Unfortunately, when you respond in a manner the ASSUMING person hardly
suspects, a reaction of either GUILT or DISGUST or hopefully, a critically-
prompted understanding and future edifying experience.  I realize that the
latter almost never will happen, but all the same, does this concept resound
within any of you?

Anyway, Happy Moral Vacation...
Don't let white, male, heterosexual, Christian guilt get you down;
there's no reason to be guilty--instead, broaden your diversity awareness.
ERACISM
Adam Karp--akarp@gonzaga.edu
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Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:25:00 EST
From:         MJMCGUIR@OWUCOMCN.BITNET
Subject:      Have a wonderful holiday

Hi, everyone!

   I am just about to leave Ohio Wesleyan to begin enjoying the holiday
vacation. I hope that all of you have a wonderful time, no matter whether
you journey halfway around the world, or never leave your own little piece
of it. May all of you simply get the chance to spend the holidays doing
things that you want to do, and with the special people in your lives.
May you all have peaceful, fulfilling holidays.

   See you next month!

                                --- Matt McGuire ---
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:53:46 GMT
From:         Gerry Callaghan <eeigcn@EEIUC.ERICSSON.SE>
Subject:      Odd greetings

I was walking down the corridor at work today, met a workmate I had not seen for
 some weeks  and the following 'conversation' occured!

"Is it yourself thats in it?"

"It is surely, howisit going?"

"Oh pulling the devil by the tail as usual"

I went on my way and the thought occured to me that even though this
conversation was in English it would not be understandable to anyone
who did not grow up in Ireland.

Has anyone any examples of odd greetings?

Gerry
eeigcn@eeiuc.ericsson.se
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:57:07 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Interpretations of God

Garry,

You write that I should accept that absolutes may exist.... Perhaps
you could give a couple of examples and I may better understand you...

I do believe that there are fine people including one of my parents who
believe that there are "Absolutes"....

I am willing to believe there are "Absolutes" if someone can prove there
are...ARE YOU WILLING TO BELIEVE THAT PERHAPS YOU COULD BE WRONG AND THAT
SOME OF THE THINGS YOU CONSIDER "ABSOLUTES" (following your God is the
way to heaven and following the God(s) of Jews or Muslims cannot possibly
lead to heaven?) MAY NOT BE ABSOLUTES AFTER ALL?

In any case, I am looking forward to hearing about some of the Absolutes or
Universal truths you believe exist....

zahir
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Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:44:54 CST
From:         Garry Dyck <gdyck@CCU.UMANITOBA.CA>
Subject:      Re: God
              a

Zahir

You seem to think that it is wrong for me to have absolutes.  On what
basis have you made this decision?  When you answer this question
honestly, you will come closer to understanding your god.  That statement
sounds authoritarian but I don't mean it that way.  I don't know your god.

Garry
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Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 15:22:35 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: CBS: Eng is the Best Language?!

Dave,

You request my thoughts on the feminine gender.... I just think that
from MY PERSPECTIVE and MY VALUE SYSTEM, the feminine gender in the
U.S. is far superior ON THE WHOLE to the male gender..I see them as
kinder, more humane, more open, more adventurous and so on.... and my
hunch is that a larger % of the women than men voted for Clinton...I
suppose for the generally more macho US male, Clinton was not macho enough..

Again, Dave...hope you are not being sarcastic and not taking it personal,
as I said, this is a broad generalization....

zahir
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Date:         Sun, 13 Dec 1992 17:52:00 PDT
From:         AKARP@GONZAGA.BITNET
Subject:      This is amazing...

The extent to which the members of this discussion group are pluralistic
and ethnically, religiously, sexually, etcetrally conscious is remarkable.

What bothers me most, however, is that while practically everyone on this
board is taking off for vacation, I'm just getting into the VAX email scene.

True, I am flying from Spokane to Miami Beach this January 5, but until then,
where will other people be to discuss crucial issues?

Por todos que saldran por las vacaciones, buen suerte con el embotallamiento (is
    that a word?) y volais con seguridad.  Que se vayan bien durante esto mes.

ERACISM
Adam Karp
Gonzaga University
From: ap290@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ruth M. Hanschka)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.xcult-l
Subject: Re: Revisit the mission of Xcult but first...
Date: 19 Dec 1992 20:23:48 GMT
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In a previous article, gdyck@CCU.UMANITOBA.CA (Garry Dyck) says:

>Douglas,
>
>When someone says that
>the early Judeo God is neither kindly nor tolerant
>I can only assume that s/he has not read the Bible or as you say the Old
>Testament.  God is abundantly kind and tolerant.  Evidence abounds.
>
As in the entire book of Exodus....:-)  A bigger bunch of whiners and
mutterers and complainers I've never seen.  Any God who put up with that
crew, and even blessed them, has to be pretty tolerant indeed.:-)

>I thought that this was an unnecesarily derogatory statement.
>
Maybe, but what do you want from a liberal?<*grin*>  

-- 
		###	Ruth Hanschka, the Nethead    ###
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	      Where anything can happen, and it usually does
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Date:         Sun, 20 Dec 1992 10:33:36 EST
From:         Lawrence Chang <UNIT617@TWNMOE10.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: UNSUBSCRIPTION !
              18 Dec 1992 12:04:40 MEZ from <CHWUJIE@NYX.UNI-KONSTANZ.DE>

unsubscription Lawrence Chang
review xcult-l
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:57:58 EST
From:         Dave Nasatir <nasatir@DHVX20.CSUDH.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Odd greetings

"Come vai?"  "Todo legal!"
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Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:00:22 MEZ
From:         Uwe <UWEHAUCK@DOSUNI1.RZ.UNI-OSNABRUECK.DE>
Subject:      Re: News from Germany
              14 Dec 1992 16:27:41 GMT from <eeigcn@EEIUC.ERICSSON.SE>

Well, Gerry, you are right but I think there is some political
danger in the things, those neonazis seem to believe in, and
in the will of lots of people, that are upset with the momentary
government to support them.... That means, if you can't see
the "Metha"-reason for something like a bad economy, it is often
the easiest way to look for something like a scapegoat..
(Not to mention the fact, that some of my relatives have been
urged in this role in the past, because my fathers side of
the family is partly hungarian (By the way, a beautiful country :-)!)
Uwe
From: STCHRI@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA (DOUGL, APPARENTLY.)
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Subject: Re: Right and Wrong
Date: 16 Dec 92 12:24:30 GMT
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I think it would be possible to develop a very short list of 'acts' which
are held, universally, to be wrong or bad. However, this would not establish
a basic universal morality because it would not encompass the locally
specific 'meaning' of the sanction of these acts.

The best one can say is that morality is universal. However, its content
is locally specific.


<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
<-> Douglass St.Christian  <->        ______
<-> Anthropology           <->        \    / This Tribe can
<-> McMaster               <->         \  /  speak
<-> Canada                 <->          \/   for itself
<-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><-><->
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Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 10:25:47 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: God

Garry,

Let us carry the conversation out on X-Cult....some others have
chipped in with excellent conributions....

Now regarding your "cases"... In all three of them, the man will be
punished because he violated the laws of the society he lives in....
The religious man who murders because his God told him to might be
convicted because Murder is illegal.... Aman may not be allowed to marry
his daughter because it may be against the laws in Canada....

Now if you ally wrong or right....I
do not know.... I do not believe in legislating morality ....Fro

From my moral perspective, killing under those circumstances might be
wrong, but killing itself is not always wrong....

zahir
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Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 09:44:46 -0500
From:         AHMED@DAYTON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: before birth...

Douglas,

If you understand Ruth's seeming contradiction, please try to explain to us.....
   ..

And, I am not a Chritian basher....most Christians I know do neither
consider the rest of us doomed to "hell" nor treat us like we need
to be "saved"..... I think you are turning over Christianity to the
"religious right" when you imply that those Christians and others
who disagree are "christian bashers"....

zahir
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