From: wusel@hactar.hanse.de (Kai 'wusel' Siering)
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.sys.amiga.uucp,comp.sys.amiga.datacomm,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: proposal alt.sys.amiga.cnews/cnews.patches
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 08:37:22 +0100
Reply-To: Kai 'wusel' Siering <wusel@hactar.hanse.de>
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In article <rp7as*ST7@kink.PhaedraV.On.Ca>, Hugh D. Gamble writes:

% [ followups to alt.config,alt.sys.amiga.uucp People who don't get alt
% will have to manually change the newsgroups line to
% comp.sys.amiga.misc and/or comp.sys.amiga.datacomm ]

Err ... Do you really think splitting a discussion is a good idea? =:-<

% In article <ciaran.3jif@aldhfn.akron.oh.us>, Skip Watson writes:
%
% > Purpose.
% >
% >     Alt.sys.amiga.cnews is for discussing the Amiga ports of cnews. It
% > is also for finding help in installing, running, and maintaining cnews on
% > the amiga.
%
% It would make more sense to have a group for all amiga news s/w, not

So far, I agree =:->

% just cnews ports. Especially considering that cnews doesn't even have
% its own group for all unix and other systems, but shares one with
% other news s/w (news.software.b).

     Well, how about dropping the `c' in `a.s.a.cnews'? =:-> If `cnews' or
simply `news' makes no real difference for me (considering the fact that
`news.software.b' has been created (I suppose) for discussing BNews and is
now used mainly for CNews/INN related topic); as currently there are only
3 ports of CNews (I know of) for the Amiga as alternative newssystems for
the Amiga, the obvious name is `cnews' ... (`Alternative' in terms of `to
the de-facto standard DUUCP'.)

% We need a formal discussion on the creation of comp.sys.amiga.news.sw.

     Don't really think so; the traffic in a.s.a.u isn't that high to
warrant a mainstream group ...

| Newsgroup-Statistics Tue Dec  1 00:00:00 1992 - Sun Dec 20 23:59:59 1992
| Created: Mon Dec 21 08:47:31 1992
|
| Newsgroups: alt.all

[It's of course only what I receive in alt.*]

|         Articles      Traffic
|  Rank  abs.    %    KBytes    %   Group
| ----- ------ ----- -------- ----- ------
|     1    388 35.86   643.27 21.79 alt.fan.pratchett
|     3    204 18.85   462.48 15.67 alt.sys.amiga.demos
|     4    176 16.27   373.88 12.67 alt.sys.amiga.uucp
|     6     19  1.76   781.80 26.49 alt.sys.amiga.uucp.patches
|    14      1  0.09     0.90  0.03 alt.sources.amiga.d

Almost nothing compared to comp.sys.amiga.* =:->

|     1   1693 19.69  3335.86 22.04 comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
|     2   1249 14.52  2138.54 14.13 comp.sys.amiga.hardware
|     3   1208 14.05  2158.48 14.26 comp.sys.amiga.misc
|     4   1078 12.53  2001.00 13.22 comp.sys.amiga.programmer
|     5    951 11.06  1342.21  8.87 comp.sys.amiga.games
|     6    457  5.31   833.19  5.50 comp.sys.amiga.applications
|     7    359  4.17   407.51  2.69 comp.sys.amiga.marketplace
|     8    357  4.15   557.72  3.68 comp.sys.amiga.emulations
|     9    346  4.02   516.09  3.41 comp.sys.amiga.graphics
|    10    332  3.86   533.36  3.52 comp.sys.amiga.datacomm
|    11    314  3.65   523.62  3.46 comp.sys.amiga.audio
|    12    108  1.26   247.32  1.63 comp.sys.amiga.multimedia
|    13     76  0.88   171.03  1.13 comp.sys.amiga.introduction
|    14     35  0.41   174.73  1.15 comp.sys.amiga.announce
|    15     17  0.20    24.02  0.16 comp.sys.amiga.tech
|    16     15  0.17   164.26  1.09 comp.sys.amiga.reviews
|    17      5  0.06     8.82  0.06 comp.sys.amiga

     And I'm afraid of getting more off-topic crossposts between
c.s.a.datacomm and c.s.a.news.sw. Btw, why not c.s.a.datacomm.-
(news,transports)? Aren't NetNews a kind of data communication?

% >     Alt.sys.amiga.cnews.patches is for distributing patches and
% > scripts for the amiga port of cnews.
%
% Again, I'd like to see this cover all Amiga news s/w, not just Cnews
% ports. And where should complete sources and executables be posted? If
% to the "patches" group, then "patches" is a bad name, "sources" would

     Well, sometimes a complete source may be more useful/shorter than a
posting of patches ... The normal use of this is to post updated versions
of related software; preferred as source AND binary (considering compiler
dependencies) ...

% be better. comp.sys.amiga.sources and comp.sys.amiga.binaries is no
% good until we get a moderator and those get going again (or we change

     NO, DO NOT USE COMP.SYS.AMIGA.SOURCES/.BINARIES! I am NOT interessted
in new versions of Sksh, csh or anything else -- I'll fetch that stuff via
FTP(mail) from Aminet if I really want to. Please remember, several poeple
(including me) get their news via expensive, time-charged dial-up links,
at least here in Germany. I'm ONLY interessted in updates for my news-,
mail-, and transportsystem.

% > Justification.
% >
% >     Cnews on the amiga is sufficiently different from the standard
% > unix cnews to warrant a newsgroup to itself. What unix cnews does with
%
% The core executables are the same. Some of the shell scripts have been

Not exactly =:->

% replaced with Amiga shell scripts or C code and some are just not
% bothered with in the various ports. Some ports stray farther from the
% standard Cnews distribution than others. Right now Amiga specific
% posts about Cnews and other news s/w are all quite nicely carried out
% in alt.sys.amiga.uucp.

For now that's true -- but will hopefully change RSN ;-)

% > shell scripts the amiga does with c programs. Often the unix scripts and
% > binaries are combine to form a single binary for the amiga. This in itself
%
% And often people just run the unix shell scripts with an sh or ksh
% compatible shell running in AmigaOS.

     If they prefer to, ok for me; I never would for several reasons.
Emulating UNOX isn't what AmigaOS was designed for ...

% >     Cnews on the amiga is growing in popularity. Its use would be more
%
% That has not been shown. Once or twice a year there is a spurt of
% posts about it in alt.sys.amiga.uucp. Right now is one of those times
% because a new port is actively in beta testing. After the last one
% became stable there was little discussion and people just kept happily
% using it for years.

We'll see =:->

% > widespread if people had access to the information needed to setup and
% > run it. This newsgroup would meet that need. Also a newsgroup is more
% > efficient than a mailing list.
%
% No, it wouldn't meet that need. There would still have to be mailing
% lists, as the number of requests in alt.sys.amiga.uucp have indicated.

     `The number'? I remember 3, and for the guy from Germany I think it
should be possible to get him at least a.s.amiga ... Anyway, I think that
even the difference of 10 (not able to get alt) to, say, 50 (est. poeple
interested in a cnews mailing list) is significant, but I have no real
figures about the number of poeple :(

% Right now a large number of people get the Cnews and other news posts
% by mailing lists because they can't recieve alt.sys.amiga.uucp as a
% newsgroup. These people would still need mailing lists unless we go to
% the creation of a comp group.

     Well, at least it's possible with CNews to gate the lists back and
forth from mail to news and vice versa -- mail becomes just another
transport for these groups (and sometimes a faster one) =;->

     I'd like a better propagation too, but I neither see other advantages
(but some dis~, see above) nor that the new group will pass (too less
interest, I'm afraid). `One never knows', right; if you want to test this,
go ahead -- but meanwhile let's create the new group in alt as suggested
by Skip.

% > Why an alt group.
% >
% >     Amiga Cnews should be discussed in the same heirarchy as its
% > transport packages. At this point in time only the alt.sys.amiga heirarchy
%
% That's a good point. alt.sys.amiga.uucp should move to comp.sys.amiga.uucp.
% Most transports except uucp are already discussed in
% comp.sys.amiga.datacomm.

     Yeah. And for my own part, I lack the time to scan the comp.sys.amiga
heirarchy for interesting articles (could use only auto-select, but what
articles I am missing then? According to Murphy, the important ones =:->);
your milage (i. e. time-table =:->) will vary.

     If under c.s.a, then in groups separated from the rest, i. e. not in
.datacomm (I know, this never was a subject of this discussion). Appro-
priate names would be -- IMO -- `comp.sys.amiga.datacomm.uucp' and `comp.-
sys.amiga.datacomm.news'.  I'm sure the latter WILL be mis-interpreted,
but as you don't like `.cnews', how else?

% >     Cnews is independant of the transport package. It can work with
% > nntp, uucp, or any other transport package that you'd care to come up with.
% > Because of this, it should have its own group rather than be discussed in a
% > group that is for a transport package.
%
% This is true provided volume warrants it. To date the combined volume
% of uucp and news postings in alt.sys.amiga.uucp has not been onerous.

     Indeed -- which, on the other hand, means there is no justification
for a separate group below c.s.a ...

% >     If you just want to cast a vote now, send your choice to
% > votes@aldhfn.akron.oh.us
%
% I'm sending a "no" vote, and I urge others to do the same.

I urge everyone not to do so, send a `yes' vote =;->

% I propose instead, that a formal discussion be started for the
% creation of comp.sys.amiga.uucp (the success of which is almost a
% foregone conclusion, I think) and possibly at the same time a

As mentioned above, I disagree.

% discussion can be started regarding the creation of a group such as
% comp.sys.amiga.news.sw for the discussion of Amiga specific news s/w.

     Which, according to you explanations, has no justification in terms
of traffic ... Funny.

Regards,
			kai

--  _
 _ //   Kai 'wusel' Siering, Villa Straylight, Hamburg, Germany. Go for MIME!
 \X/: <wusel@hactar.hanse.de>  Exile: <wusel@wolfhh.hanse.de>  iso-8859-1: 

              /away 18.12.1992 - 04.01.1993 (Phone: +49-4755-648)

"Das IN _ist_ eine Portokasse. Wir haben *nur* Mailkosten."
                  -- Kristian Koehntopp auf dem IN-Arbeitstreffen OL, 21.06.1992
Newsgroups: alt.config,rec.humor.d