From: ytanaka@icot.or.jp (Yuichi TANAKA)
Newsgroups: fj.sci.lang
Subject: Re: Kiiroi (was: Re: souda (was: Re: Hanashi))
Date: 28 Jul 92 02:29:07 GMT
	<ONIZUKA.92Jul23114828@psiux535.icot.or.JP>
	<1992Jul23.095549.21516@rkna50.riken.go.jp>
	<YAMAGAMI.92Jul24115453@nlsun2.okilab.oki.co.jp>
Followup-To: fj.sci.lang
Distribution: fj
Organization: Institute for New Generation Computer Technology (ICOT)

In article <YAMAGAMI.92Jul24115453@nlsun2.okilab.oki.co.jp>
yamagami@okilab.oki.co.jp (Cozy Yamagami) writes:

 >   $B2-EE5$9)6H$N;3>e$G$9!#(B
 >   $B30Ln$+$i%3%a%s%H$G$9$,!"(B
 > 
 > In article <1992Jul23.095549.21516@rkna50.riken.go.jp>
 > mtachiba@rkna50.riken.go.jp (Masahiko Tachibana) writes:
 >
 >   |>$B$H$3$m$,@$3&Cf$N$$$m$$$m$JL1B2$N8@8l$G$N4pK\E*$J?'$N?t$H$=$N?'$H$OHs>o(B
 >   |>$B$K87L)$J4X78(B$B$,$"$j$^$9!#(B
 >   |>$B@53N$K$OK:$l$^$7$?$,!"$?$7$+!"$3$s$J46$8$G$7$?!#(B
 >   |>
 >   |>$B#2?'$NL1B2(B	$B9u(B	$BGr(B
 >   |>$B#3?'$NL1B2(B	$B9u(B	$BGr(B	$B@V(B
 >   |>$B#4?'$NL1B2(B	$B9u(B	$BGr(B	$B@V(B	$B@D(B
 >   |>$B#5?'$NL1B2(B	$B9u(B	$BGr(B	$B@V(B	$B@D(B	$B2+(B
 >   |>$B#6?'(B$B$NL1B2(B	$B9u(B	$BGr(B	$B@V(B	$B@D(B	$B2+(B	$BNP(B
 >   |>					__________________
 >   |>					$B$3$NJU$N=gHV$O<+?.$,$J$$(B
 >   |
 >   |$B!!$3$l$O$*$b$7$m$$$G$9$M!*$G$-$l$P%=!<%9$rCN$j$?$$$G$9!#(B
 > 
 >   Berlin and Kay (1969) "Basic Color Terms: Their Universality and
 >     Evolution", Univ. of California Press $B!JF|K\8lLu$OB?J,$J$$!K(B
 > $B$"$?$j$,%O%7%j$G$O$J$$$G$7$g$&$+!#(B
 >   $BF|K\8l$K4X$7$F$O!"Ip0fK.I'!V?':L$H7ABV$H8@8l!W!J!X7n4)8@8l(B$B!Y(B1989$BG/(B11$B7n(B
 > $B9f!K$J$I$,$"$j$^$9!#(B
 > 
 >   $B$J$*!"(BBerlin & Kay$B$G$O!">e$N#6?'$KB3$$$F(B $BCc?'!";g!"Em?'(B$B!"\t?'!"3%?'(B
 > $B$H$J$C$F$$$k$h$&$G$9!#$^$?!"H`$i$N@b$G$O>e$NI=$N@D$HNP$O5U$G$9!#(B

$B$3$NJU$NOCBj$O(B sci.lang $B$G$b4{$K(B1$BG/H>$[$IA0!"5DO@$K(B
$B$J$C$F$$$F!"2<$N$h$&$JEj9F$,$"$j$^$7$?!#$J$*!"3F9q8l(B
$B$G$N?'$NG'<1$HI=(B$B8=$K$D$$$F$O!"(B

    $BNkLZ9'IW(B, $BF|K\8l$H309q8l(B, $B4dGH?7=q(B ($B?7@VHG(B) 101,
    1990$BG/(B1$B7n(B, ISBN 4-00-430101-7.

$B$KHs>o$KNI$$2r@b$,$"$j$^$9!#(B

    Richard of York gained battles in vain.

--
$BEDCf(B $BM50l(B     ( ytanaka@icot.or.jp )
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 $B")(B108  $BEl5~(B$BET9A6h;0ED(B 1-4-28  $B;0ED9q:]%S%k(B 21F       FAX: 03-3456-1618

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From: loren@tristan.llnl.gov (Loren Petrich)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: Color hierarchy (help!)
Date: 8 Nov 90 22:07:16 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory


	There have been some studies on the question of color words
and their acquisition in different languages (I don't recall
references offhand), and here are the principal results:

	One checks out color words with the help of a color chart, and
by asking speakers of different languages which areas they designate
with which color words.

	The results are remarkably consistent. The centers
corresponding to various color words agree with each other across
languages, even distant ones. The boundaries of the different color
regions showed more variations from informant to informant than they
did across languages. This is readily accounted for by the hypothesis
that the perception of color is genetically controlled and is the same
for all normal humans (with the exception of those suffering from
color blindness).

	And color acquisition? One can work this out from what color
words are present in different languages.

	The first set of words are those for "white" and "black". If
one is present, then the other is always present. This set is often
interpreted as an opposition between "hot" and "cold" colors; the
former being white, red, and yellow; and the latter being green, blue,
and black.

	If "white" and "black" are present, then the next color is
always "red". Following that is either "yellow" or "green", with the
next one the other one of this pair. The next one to follow is "blue".
I don't recall what the order for the next colors, such as "orange"
and "brown", is. 

	I guess I should try to track down this research, as well as
do some investigation of Indo-European and Nostratic color terms.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Loren Petrich, the Master Blaster: loren@sunlight.llnl.gov

Since this nodename is not widely known, you may have to try:

loren%sunlight.llnl.gov@star.stanford.edu

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From: shirriff@sprite.berkeley.edu (Ken Shirriff)
Newsgroups: sci.lang,sci.psychology,sci.misc
Subject: Re: Color hierarchy (help!)
Date: 10 Nov 90 00:18:56 GMT
Reply-To: shirriff@sprite.berkeley.edu (Ken Shirriff)
Organization: University of California, Berkeley

In article <981@babcock.cerc.wvu.wvnet.edu> vrm@blackwater.cerc.wvu.wvnet.edu (Vasile R. Montan) writes:
>Several years ago I remember reading about a study which was done earlier
>in the century.  The study was about the way that languages arrange their
>systems of color nomenclature.

I read "Basic color terms" (which some other poster mentioned) and
the rules are:
1.  All languages contain terms for white and black.
2.  If a language contains 3 terms, then it contains a term for red.
3.  If a language contains 4 terms, then it contains a term for either green
    or yellow, but not both.
4.  If a languages contains 5 terms, then it contains terms for both green
    and yellow.
5.  If a language contains 6 terms, then it contains a term for blue.
6.  If a language contains 7 terms, then it contains a term for brown.
7.  If a language contains 8 terms, then it contains a term for purple,
    pink, orange, grey, or some combination.

The 11 basic color terms are:

white,black   red   green    blue   brown   purple
                    yellow                  pink
                                            orange
                                            grey

The main point of the book is that languages don't divide up color space
arbitrarily.  There are basic similarities across language groups.   The
study looked at basic color terms, as opposed to words such as "leaf" or
"blood" that can be used as colors.

They did the study by using a chart of 400 or so color squares.
They asked people what was the most representative square for each color
and what squares could be described by the color.  The resulting
color representatives and regions were similar across widely differing
languages.

Note that languages with just black and white (there's a couple described
in the book) use these terms to describe dark colors and light colors,
not just achromatic white and black.  Likewise, 3 term languages use
their red term to describe browns, purples, etc, as well red.

My theory is that the hierarchy is the result of laundry.  Primitive
cultures separate clothes into whites and darks.  Later they invent a term
so they can separate out reds to keep things from turning pink.  More
advanced societies need words for blue to separate out their jeans, etc.  :-)

Ken Shirriff		shirriff@sprite.Berkeley.EDU
I don't kill flies, but I like to mess with their minds.  I hold them above
globes.  They freak out and yell "Whooa, I'm way too high."  - Bruce Baum