From: lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax)
Subject: Re: Family Values
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 03:18:35 GMT

In article <1992Sep6.181209.12231@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> mycroft@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Charles Hannum) writes:
>
>In article <1992Sep1.221503.15330@Princeton.EDU>
>elliott@leda.princeton.edu (Frank W. Elliott) writes:
>>
>> What does the phrase "family values" mean? Literally, it has _no_
>> meaning; however, it serves as a signal that "It's US against THEM."
>> (In this respect it's much like Hitler's phrase "white culture".)
>
>Or like the "gay rights movement"'s term "straights".
>

Huh?  Maybe in your mind...

>These analogies to the holocaust are dangerous.  With respect to the
>"gay community" (and I use the term loosely) in this country, there are
>no concentration camps; there are no death camps; the leadership is
>*not* actively encouraging people to hunt down and abuse/kill
>homosexuals.  There is simply no basis for comparison.  The use of
>analogies such as the above is offensive, and only generates hatred; it
>does nothing to cure it.
>

No, analogies to the Holocaust are _not_ dangerous, unless you fear
truthful observations.  What's dangerous is pretending there is not a
problem.  Hitler and the Nazis did not start out with concentration
camps or encouraging people to hunt and kill Jews, Turks, Gypsies and
Gays.  That took decades.  It started out by making certain acts
illegal, not allowing the oppressed groups to hold certain jobs, and
_actively_ attempting to tell people certain people were not "right."
These are all things the radical Right is doing, and which Bush is
doing NOTHING to stop.  Am I supposed to _wait_ until Bush/Quayle feels
it's safe enough to start rounding up gays and lesbians before I note
where their actions could lead?

>People have been killed in minor brawls and large wars over their
>beliefs for many thousands of years.  This is neither good nor unusual,
>and there is no reason to expect that it will stop, even (or perhaps
>especially) through legislation.
>

"Stop" I don't think is an issue.  But do you suggest we just ignore it
because we can do nothing about it?  I hope not.  Legislation should 
_NEVER_ be the only answer to a problem - but it should not be 
dismissed either.  

>Statistically, I don't see "gay bashing" as being any more common than
>the "fat" boy or the "ugly" girl getting beat up on the playground, or
>the "straight" guy getting beat up because he made a pass at someone's
>girlfriend.  While none of these is truly acceptable, the source of the
>problem has nothing to do with homosexuality; it has do to with low
>tolerance for someone else's views or lifestyle, or in the latter case,
>selfishness and (usually) insecurity.
>

Just curious, but where do you get your "statistics"?  Not many exist
at the moment, but everything I've read that the more and more numbers
collected indicate that gays and lesbians - or those simply _perceived_
to be gay or lesbian - are beat, and beat badly, with increasing 
frequency.  The response "it's not a problem" - which many on the
Radical Right do, when they're not saying/suggesting we 'deserve' it -
simply makes gay bashing more acceptable.  I don't know of teenagers
going out and looking for ugly girls or fat boys to beat with baseball
bats, BTW.

>Any doctor can tell you that you cannot cure a disease by attacking the
>symptom(s); you must attack the disease itself.  In this case, morality
>itself is diseased.  How do you propose curing it?
>

NOW you make a tiny bit of sense.  But, if we really wish to use the "our
society is a body" analogy, it can be very difficult to treat a disease 
until you at least handle the symptoms.  Would you tell a migraine sufferer
he/she can't have pain killers?  Mothers Against Drunk Drivers is a prime
example of tackling a problem at both ends.  They worked at getting
laws passed, and enforced, that aimed at the "symptoms" of drunk 
driving.  They also worked at educating the public ("No thanks,
I'm driving") about how easy it is to avoid drinking & driving.  The
gay community is attempting to do the same thing.  "Cure" hatred?
I don't pretend to be that wise.                 
>
>Anyway, I'm rambling.
>
Perhaps you should consider what you're rambling about.

>-- 
> \   Charles Hannum, mycroft@ai.mit.edu
> /\  White heterosexual atheist male (WHAM) pride!
      White Homosexual agnostic/Jewish/Pagan/Faerie/maybe Buddhist human 
      (WHAJPFMBH) pride!

  
======================================================================
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"An eye for an eye will blind the world."
                                      Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

"I'm here, I'm queer, get used to it."
                                                             ME!

lazarus@wixer.cactus.org
Michael Lax, 12514 Esplanade St., #B, Austin, TX  78727-4409
512.837.1596 (h), 512.836.9715 (fax)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton