From: martin@parst1.uucp (Martin Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.singles,soc.couples
Subject: Re: Sanctity of relationships
Date: 15 Apr 92 18:35:07 GMT
Organization: Paradigm Systems Technology

In <1992Apr7.153147.17912@panix.com> pw@panix.com (Paul Wallich) writes:
>No! This is all wrong, or if not all wrong, at least based on a notion
>of relationships that is at best stifling and at worst limited. Other
>people's SO's who you are interested in are people too. If you make
>romantic overtures to them, they are perfectly capable of saying, "No,
>thanks" if that's what they mean and "Sure" if that's what they mean. The
>consequences between them and the person they are "officially" involved
>with are their lookout. Now that's not to say bad things may not happen,
>or that you should make a move on someone who's vulnerable to get them to
>do something clearly not in their best interest, but those are dangers
>whether someone is officially attached or not.

This is about he most sensible thing anyone has said on this topic. Sure,
there should be ethical limitations on what you do in such a situation,
but saying that you should, under no circumstances, do _anything_ is very
limiting and very short sighted. 

Certainly I try to avoid such scenarios, but in the past, my feelings have 
been sufficiently strong to make my attempts at controlling them entirely 
futile. The first time this happened to me, I did nothing whatsoever, and 
regret it to this day : this all took place just over seven years ago, and 
(usually when I'm in a fit of mild depression :-) ) I still occasionaly 
wonder what might have been if I had opened my mouth and at least _said_ 
something. My belief at the time that one simply did _not_ interfere at
all in an established relationship prevented me from finding out what her
reaction would have been had she known how I felt. 

She broke up with that SO a few months later anyway, and, again due to my 
somewhat misguided beliefs of the time, I left her alone for what I felt was 
a suitable recovery period. During that time she became involved again, and 
is now married to the gentleman in question. I am genuinely pleased that she 
is happy (or at least I have no reason to believe otherwise), but I still 
must wonder at how different things might have been had she known. Now you 
may say "Probably things would have turned out precisely the same." and 
maybe you are right, but I did find out later that when I was still 
suppressing my attraction to her in the interests of an academic career,
she _had_ in fact been interested in me. Of course by the time I felt (or at
least knew I felt) the same way, she had given up on me. I'm sure you can all
draw lots of morals out of this sordid little tale, but more relevant to this
discussion is the fact that a little communication probably would have saved
everyone a great deal of heartache. Can you see anything unethical or immoral
in that? I certainly can't.....

My second attempt at resolving this particular messy situation was much more 
recent (and, in fact, is still continuing). Again I was attracted to a woman 
with an SO, and managed to keep a tight reign on myself for a long time. 
Recently circumstances threw us into closer contact, and I rapidly found that
my feelings had grown beyond my control. After agonising over the situation
for what seemed an eternity (actually a few weeks) I decided I had to tell 
her how I felt : It had gotten to the stage for me where I simply couldn't do
nothing any longer, and mindful of the previous such situation, I applied
what few shreds of rationality I had left (I still can't believe the 
intensity of my feelings - they make anything in my experience before now 
look positively anaemic) and decided that anything was better than a repeat
performance. 

So I sat down with her and poured it out, and I owe her a great deal for the 
sensitive manner in which she listened and helped quell my embarassment. As I
had expected, she stated that she was not available and (as I had hoped) 
expressed willingness to remain friends. Obviously this was not the outcome 
of my fondest dreams, but one that steered the best path to avoid the chaos 
that otherwise undoubtedly would have erupted. As someone else pointed out in
this thread, it would actually have been rather worrying and certainly
disconcerting if she had dropped her current SO (who is also a friend, just
to complicate matters further) like a hot potato in my favour. I guess I
respect her a great deal for her decision, and, in a way, it is a 
justification of how I feel.

The last couple of weeks of getting my feelings under control have been 
rough to say the least, but now that I have done it, I am content to work 
on cementing a good friendship. I can genuinely say I have no ulterior
motives in doing this either. Don't get me wrong, if circumstances should
change (ie. for whatever reason she sshould decided to terminate her current
relationship), and something should develop between us, I'd be only too
happy, but I don't expect this, and this possibility won't make a difference 
in my offering my friendship as sincerely as I know how.

Certainly I cannot regret having done something about how I feel. I am not
a frivolous person and did not do this lightly. Yes, it may well have been
wrong to lay this on her if my feelings hadn't been so strong, but I cannot
see what I did as unethical. Then again, I'm biased ;-). As Paul said above, 
she was perfectly capable of making her own decision, as indeed she did, 
saying no. It would, in fact, be somewhat insulting of me to assume that she 
would have been better off not knowing. I do, however, believe that it would 
have been wrong to do anything more than this. I do not have any right to 
pressurise her or interfere with her relationship in any other way and I 
fully intend to act strictly according to my beliefs in this regard - I guess
that's all any of us can really do.....

Human relationships are, at best, a hit and miss affair. Although the topic
under consideration here does not lend itself well to reason, I can only 
conclude that it is reasonable to apply one's communication skills as best
one can to shed a little light on, and gain a little control over such
a potentially hurtful, confusing and downright disastrous situation.

>A coupla stories:
>One time I mentioned to a friend of mine that I had been fairly strongly
>interested in her, but hadn't asked her out because she was seeing someone
>else at the time and I didn't want to interfere. She responded with a good
>deal of annoyance, pointing out that she wasn't the property of the person
>she was going out with and would have preferred to make her own choice
>rather than having me make it for her.

Quite. I hope you don't mind my taking this as vindication of the opinions I
expressed above.

>I am _not_ advocating wooing people in relationships just for the heck
>of it. Nonetheless, if two people start falling for each other and one
>of them is in a relationship already, then (gasp) they should talk
>about what to do rather than one of them deciding unilaterally.
>At least that's my humble thoughts on the matter.

Hear, hear! I think you put your humble thoughts most cogently, and humbly
submit that I agree very strongly with them.

Later,
Mart.

-- 
Martin Walker               |  "One way to stop a runaway horse
Paradigm Systems Technology |   is to bet on him"
Pretoria, South Africa      | UUCP : martin@parst1.UUCP                 
++27-12-342-2835            | BANG : ..!ddsw1!olsa99!tabbs!parst1!martin
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