From: slkg9733@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steven L. Kellmeyer)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Kathi, please be careful
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:37:24 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

anne@cco.caltech.edu (Anneliese Lilje) writes:

>In article <1992Apr12.225650.21492@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Apr9.210134.3581@coopsol.com> gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga) writes:
>>
>>>No offense to Nora, Monica, Dean, and many others of the Jewish
>>>faith/race, but at least you have a country to fight for.  At least the
>>>rest of the world came to your rescue when you were being slaughtered by
>>>the millions.  Ah well, I've gone on too long about this.  Sorry for the
>>>diatribe.
>>
>>No problem about going on too long, and yes, it helps that I have a 
>>country to fight for. But the rest of the world certainly did *not*
>>come to our aid. They came to France's aid, and Britain's aid, and

>How dare you. My great uncle was thrown into a concentration camp and 
>tortured for speaking out IN GERMANY against the treatment of the Jews. 
>It was scary listening to him tell us about what it was like.
>There *were*
>people in the world who came to the aid of the Jews and some LOST their
>lives helping. You may THINK everybody deserted your prople but don't shame 
>those who did. A lot turned their backs but many turned to help.
> 

Nora is more than a little rabid on this issue, so watch your back.


>>Russia's aid; and when they had destroyed the threat to the nations
>>of Europe we climbed back up out of hiding. But they did not do any
>>of it for the safety of the Jews: first of all, they didn't believe
>>that we were in real danger (no matter how many times we told them
>>or how much evidence we provided) and second of all, nobody was going

Nora, a lot of the JEWS didn't think they were in that much danger
until WELL into the war.  Read Charles D. Smith, "Palestine and
the Arab-Israeli Conflict".  A Jewish commission after the war tried
to find out how much American Jews did to help European Jews.
It turns out that they didn't do much.  Several members of the 
commission quit because they didn't like what was being found.

>We told them? How old are you??? 40-50-60??? You mean your *relatives*
>don't you? I could say the same thing about my mother's family in the 
>now free eastern block countries. Gee...no one helped them...they were 
>slaughtered. But I am not going to whine about it my whole life. I didn't
>even know them personally.

>>it never really changes. Every time we have had to fight, no matter
>>who was theoretically our ally, we've stood alone. We probably always
>>will. Why do you think many American Jews *do* tend to be so protective
>>of Israel?


>Gimme a break. This is called "feeling sorry for yourself". For God sake
>take this crap to talk.politics.mideast or soc.culture.jewish. It's one
>thing to say that Jews suffered horrendously during the war...it's another
>thing to say WHHHHHAAAAAAAAA nobody likes us, everybody hates us. Bullshit.
>Lots of folks are quite sympathetic to the Jewish cause. Don't give them any
>credit or anything now...

Funny, but Nora never mentions the Stern Gang.  Seems there was this Jewish
extremist group in WWII that wanted the British to deny the White Paper of
1939, limiting Jewish immigration.  So they went around blowing up
British military installations.  During the war.  When the Nazis were 
were making a successful drive towards Egypt.

They also tried to get in touch with the
Italians and the Germans.  The old proverb about "the enemy of my enemy..."
I know it's odd to think of a  group of Jews fighting for the Nazis, but
this particular group did their damndest to set it up.  

Nora's gyrations about how no one helped applied to everyone who wasn't
in a camp, including the Jews themselves.  Her problem is that she doesn't
know enough history to appreciate what the hell she's talking about.

As a sidenote:
What's really weird is the Nazi solution to the Jews in the early '30s.
They set up emigration camps and dumped Jews into Palestine faster 
than the British could handle.  The Nazis even made an exception to
a Weimar law banning the export of capital from Germany - they let the
Rothschilds fund the operation and send money to Palestine in order to
hasten the export of the Jewish population.  What later became Israel was
due in significant part to the Nazi desire to funnel 
all undesirables out of Europe.  Truth is one hell of a lot stranger 
than fiction.

>anne

SK