From: cjhs@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: God speaks
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:22:16 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

In case anyone wonders; I am an atheist. I hope a fair minded one.

Kent provides a quote from Russell: (I think it provided by Kent)
>So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in
>praise of intelligence.
>                -- Bertrand Russell

I personally found Russell's comment of little significance. Who cares?
You don't need to praise intelligence. I don't recall one word in any
of the maths papers I have written in praise of intelligence either.
I do not consider this any kind of defect in my papers.

Russell provides here a sound-bite; not an argument. In a debate, such
a line would rightly be rubbished as a snide implication that the gospel
writers don't actually think intelligence is a good thing, without giving
anything to support that conclusion.

Having said this, I think Russell's line is not an argument, but a
provocation inviting one to consider the role of intelligence within
Christian teaching.

Several people have rushed into to demonstrate that Russel was
wrong. The quotes they provide, however, serve to reinforce my
perception that the gospel message is not supported by intelligence
or rational argument, but by revelation.

Here I consider Brian's attempt (Richard Pitt's contribution was
just as berwildering if not worse).

Brian Ceccarelli 602/621-9615 (brian@lpl.arizona.edu) wrote:
: Then I guess Betrand Russell wasn't too intelligent.

Advice: do not put yourself in a position where your intelligence is
mutually exclusive with Russell's. (I would extend the same advice to
atheists when discussing the reasoning power of intelligent theists.)

: Matthew 5:17-18:
: 
:     Do not think that I have come to abolish
:     the Law or the Prophets; I have not
:     come to abolish them but to fufill
:     them.  I tell you the truth, until
:     heaven and earth disappear, not the
:     smallest letter, not the least stroke
:     of a pen, will by any means disappear
:     from the Law until everything is 
:     accomplished.

No mention of intelligence at all; it is quite correct to say that this
has no word in praise of intelligence. Proverbs certainly does praise
wisdom, but this special pleading that the words of the gospel include
the words of everything praised by the gospels would indicate praise of
smashing of heads of Babylonian babies, and other nonsense.

Of more interest to me is that Christians certainly have discarded
most of the law, which means that Jesus was wrong: or else that I
am about to see yet another spectacular rewording of scripture by
its professed supporters.

: Also Jesus's greatest commandment:
: 
: Matthew 22:37
: 
:     Love the Lord your God with all your
:     heart and with all your soul and with
:     all your mind.

Not praise of intelligence. Praise of God; and the requirement that
intelligence be used in God's service.  The position of the gospels is
that truth is revealed by God, and that intelligence is good but
subservient to that revealed truth.

My own experience (Christian for many years, ordained elder in the
church, but eventually and regretfully an atheist) was that it was
allowing my mind free reign that meant I could no longer serve God.

I know of intelligent theists who have different experience.

Felicitations -- Chris Ho-Stuart
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc