HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Answer to Mr John
Date: 3 Oct 92 03:43:57 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <REUS.92Sep29164506@klein.euromath.dk> reus@klein.euromath.dk (Jens Peter Reus Christensen) writes:
>
>**********
>
> " ANISA ON THE NET "  You and your peoples support of Saddam Hussein
>makes us speculate , are you really in love with him and support him
>or are you just ...... 
>We are not racist but we would not love to kiss him .

Since this is the answer *you* want to hear, I will tell
you (shhh, don't tell anyone) - I am secretly in love
with Saddam Hussein.  He is so devistatingly handsome.  I would
love to do more than just kiss him.  Maybe I can send him a
lock of my hair for his birthday ...
 
Did I make your day?

Are we happy over there in Copenhagen, insha'Allah?

Anisa
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Jack S Defends MLKing Slur (Was: ARF DEFENDS HIS HONOR)
Date: 5 Oct 1992 12:34:09 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


   The notion of King sleeping around is not at all that exciting
or interesting.  But when the issue is raised by someone like Mr.
Jack Schmidling, it takes on a whole new meaning.
   Now we are confronted with comparing an ignorant bigot who may
never have slept around with a spiritual giant who might have had
an unfaithful episode.
-- 
   "One can be a racist.  Or one can be a human being.  But one
may not be both."
                                 - Rabbi Abraham Joshua heschel

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: A day in the life of a secret service
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 01:44:06 GMT

aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
#	
##Yigal, whi don't you switch to LA-ISHA? Much more juicy stories
##there (and pictures of pretty girls, too!).
#
#	But would Mrs. Keren see it that way?  :-)

I just asked Mrs. Keren and she warmly recommends LA-ISHA to Yigal.
He might not like Uri Porat's articles, though.

-Danny Keren.


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:20842 soc.culture.arabic:4140 talk.politics.misc:49636 soc.culture.turkish:10477
From: kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout)
Subject: Arab Jews are ARABS
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:28:56 GMT


From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:
#
#   First of all, the Arabs have never used religion as a mean to classify
#people as Arabs or non-Arabs.  There are thousands upon thousands of Arab Jews
#who are still living in Arab countries.

>>But are they considered citizens and have equal rights?

     It seems that you are acustomed to the Israeli law that discriminates
among Jewish citizens and non-Jewish citizens.  But that is not the case in the
Arab countries.  I've lived in Beirut and went to school which was in
a district heavily populated by Lebanese Jews; so I ought to know that they
were full citizens.

#Also, there are many Jews who work for the
#PLO (that is the Palestine Liberation Organization).

>>Care to elaborate and give numbers? I have never heard of this.

     I do not have any numbers but we knew a few Jews who did work for the PLO.

Besides, it is not the figures that matter but rather the notion that
Palestinian Jews work for the PLO to liberate their occupied country.

>>-Danny Keren.

Wa Salam
----------------------
Khaled J Shammout
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: Hizbolah Attacjks SLA, UNFIL
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:33:01 GMT

In article <1ailb8INN19d@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>,
bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein) writes:
> 
> In a previous article, hernlem@che13.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) says:
> 
> >Interesting how HA'ARETZ refers to Hezbollah fighters as "terrorists"
> >when they attack occupation forces ...
> 
> The Hezbollah, with a sordid record of attacking innocent civilians and
> holding hostages, certainly are terrorists and deserve to be referred to as
> such, even when reporting certain actions which are not specifically
> terrorist in nature, such as their attacking the SLA.

Israel uses the exact same tactic that you claim the Hezbollah use.
Whenever Israeli or SLA troops are attacked, Israel and the SLA
retaliate by shelling civilian targets. The objective is to terrorize
the civilians so that they will drive out the Hezbollah. This is the
same as a terrorist taking an American hostage in order to try to get
the U.S. to take action to restrain their surrogate (Israel).

> Brad Hernlem errs in referring to "occupation forces."  The SLA consists of
> Lebanese citizens trying to hold onto their country, and in no way are they
> occupation forces.

It is my understanding that the SLA are paid by Israel (something like
$100 per recruit per month in hard currency) and that the SLA use
coercion to recruit soldiers.

> > ...but ignores the Israeli shelling of Lebanese villages and loss of
> civilian life.
>  
> The unfortunate fact of life is that the Hezbollah terrorists, like other
> Arab terrorists such as the PLO, make it a policy to try to protect
> themselves from retaliation by basing themselves in the midst of civilian
> areas.
> -- 
> bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Subject: MEQ #6: "Arabs are Jews"
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
Organization: Australian National University
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 04:40:57 GMT


      MEQ #6.  Brothers!

   ... Israel Belkind, who ... belonged to the first batch of Zionist
   immigrants, [while] travelling on both sides of the Jordan in 1894,
   ... came to the conclusion that 'the overwhelming majority' of the
   inhabitants were descended from Jews 'who had not left the land but
   had endured their political and spiritual exile in it'.  This
   discovery impelled him to ask: 'Are we to go on distinguishing them
   as Arabs ... only because they speak Arabic?'  Evidently not.  'We
   are brothers, brothers in stock, brothers, sons of one people.

   Source: E. Marmorstein, European Jews in Muslim Palestine, in
   Palestine and Israel in the 19th and 20th centuries (E. Kedourie
   and S.G. Haim, eds.) Frank Cass, 1982.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Middle East Quotes is an occasional series of quotations on Middle
East history.  The editor does not necessarily approve of the sentiments
expressed in quotes, nor will he necessarily join in any discussion
they engender.  Contributions are welcome but will not necessarily be
accepted.  Full sources are essential.      Brendan McKay.
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: "SALEM" (Peace)!!! means "MURDER"!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:05:14 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1a0bl9INNdso@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein) writes:

>
>In a previous article, kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J
Shammout) says:

>>     In article 51959, Mr. Ehrlich Says that the village name "SALEM" means
>>(peace) and then contradicts himself by adding that it means (murder).  Pretty
>>confusing!  Well Mr. Ehrlich, may be "SALEM" does mean (peace) or (murder) if
>>it were in Russian, Japanese, Swahili, or ghmstru languag, I do not Know.  BUT
>>NOT IN ARABIC.
>
>A group of people try to murder an innocent man, and Khaled Shammout
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> starts arguing about semantics!
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>--
>bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu


But this is the main point , haled J Shammout many other Arabs in the
middle east and in other places do consider killing Jews as a good
action.

This remind me a case several years a go.
I told a group , many of them arabs, about the poem of Fadua Tukan of
a poetess lieving at Nablus. She wrote about her dream :
 eating a stomack of a Jew.

"A stomack ?" shouted an Arabian girl "it is mizrabel (spell? )" !!!

"He is wrong" an Arabian student corrected me, " Fadua wrote about
eating a liver ! "



Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: naftaly@supergas.dazixco.ingr.com (Naftaly Stramer)
Subject: SHANA TOVA
Reply-To: naftaly@dazixco.ingr.com
Organization: Dazix
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:33:54 GMT


To all of the jews of talk.politics.mideast:





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                      XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX    XXXXXXX   XXX       XXX       XXX
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                                    XXX        XXX    XXX    XXX       XXX
                     XXX            XXX        XXX    XXX   XXX       XXX
                     XXX            XXX   XXXXXXXX     XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
                     XXX            XXX   XXXXXXXX      XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX       XXXXXXX     XXX         XXXX
 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX       XXXXXXX   XXX         XXXXXX
               XXX                 XXX           XXX   XXX        XXX  XXX
               XXX                 XXX           XXX   XXX        XXX   XXX
               XXX                 XXX           XXX    XXX            XXX
XXX            XXX                 XXX           XXX     XXX         XXX
XXX            XXX   XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX        XXX     XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXX            XXX    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX       XXX      XXXXXXXXXXXX


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX



---
Naftaly Stramer (303)581-2370, FAX (303)581-9972    DAZIX, An Intergraph Company
Internet: naftaly@dazixco.ingr.com                  6095 Spine Road    
UUCP: ..uunet!ingr!dazixco!naftaly  	            Boulder, CO 80301
Please excuse my English
Naftaly Stramer (303)581-2370, FAX (303)581-9972    DAZIX, An Intergraph Company
Internet: naftaly@dazixco.ingr.com                  6095 Spine Road    
UUCP: ..uunet!ingr!dazixco!naftaly  	            Boulder, CO 80301
Please excuse my English
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bgdv706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Noam Tractinsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: A day in the life of a secret service
Date: 3 Oct 92 00:01:58 GMT
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin

In article <22485@venera.isi.edu>, arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
> Appeared in the Hebrew language Los Angeles paper "Hadshot L.A." (LA
> News), September 24, 1992.  Article supplied by the Israeli daily
> Hadashot.
> 
> The choppy and confused nature of this news item is due, no doubt, to
> the Israeli censor's unceasing efforts to preserve state security...


	I found the article very detailed (e.g. "he pushed the botton, and
	she held the intercom", or vice versa), and the confused
	nature is probably due much more to the type of information 
	that occupies you than to any censor on earth. Mind you, 
	matters between him and her are inherently confusing, let
	alone when multiple actors are involved.

        But then, why not bashing the censor as an excuse for posting
	some yellow stuff, for a change. 


> Yigal Arens        "You'd think [Bush] was running for First Lady instead


Noam


Noam
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Kozo Okamoto
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:25:33 GMT

jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
# dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
## 
## BTW, Lebanese sources indicate that IDF navigator Ron Arad is still 
## alive. Maybe the Hizebolla could make a first step in a long way back
## to the human race by saying if this is true or not. 
# 
# Who knows, stranger things have happened. Maybe even the Israelis might
# consider being a bit nicer to Mordechai Vanunu, kept in a 9 by 6 cell
# in solitary confinement for 6 years, 2 of which were in 24hr fluorescent
# light. Naaah.

What the hell... Arad is a POW, Vanunu a traitor to his country. People
guilty of similar crimes would probably be executed in other countries.
Remember the Rosenbergs? And what about Pollard? Is he treated
better than Vanunu?

And anyway, I am not even talking about the fact that Arad is not
freed, and/or about the conditions he is held in. But why keep it
secret, for many years, if he is alive or not? And why keep the
bones of dead IDF soldiers and use them as barganing chips? This
is simply disgusting.

-Danny Keren.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: Arab Jews are ARABS
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 22:52:19 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.223235.22610@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:
>In Article: 52184 of talk.politics.mideast, (Steve Berson) writes:
>
>>Apparently my earlier message wasn't clear.  I am aware that the Majlis
>>is elected.
>
>Give us a break.  You do not know anything; this is an old trick.  You just
>attack others and their arguments, come up with a bunch of lies and
>misleading information, and then hope no one will notice.  And if someone
>strikes back with the truth you resort to saying "Oh my message wasn't clear".
>
>Just quit it.  If you can not say the truth, do not say anything.

No, Khaled, I suggest you give *us* a break.  If the above isn't an ad
hominem attack, I don't know what is.  And judging Steve's intentions
both from this posting and from his previous postings on this net, he's
completely on the level - he's being honest with you.  The fact is, the
above is just a completely unjustified and wrong-headed ad hominem
outburst, which we don't need on this net.

-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
From: benali@alcor.concordia.ca ( ILYESS B. BDIRA )
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Autumn in Sudan
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:03:46 GMT

>>
>>
>>	WASHINGTON (UPI) -- The Sudanese government executed for treason a U.
>>S. government employee, and another member of his staff is believed to
>>have suffered the same fate, an administration official said Tuesday.

Of course, the article neglects to mention which government agency those
guys are working for..
If it is intelligence related.. I would say they got what they  deserve.

Do you guys want the CIA to have a free hand in committing all kinds
of covert criminal actions in all countries that are independent of
it (the only Muslim countries that are not virtually run by the CIA
right now are Iran, Sudan, Afghanistan, and maybe Yemen, Syria, Iraq,
and Lybia) and they are all fought by the CIA.)
The governments of those countries may or may not be democratic, may
or may not be just, may or may not be peace-loving nations, but the
only reason they are fought is because they are not under the direct
influence of that criminal organization (CIA).

I think that the FBI and the CIA are the biggest enemies of the American
people. They are monsters that went out of control. The fact that the
director of such an organization is now the President of the U.S just shows
that freedom of the press in the U.S is an illusion.
From: peewee@infoserv.com (Philip Stromer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Alan Dershowitz on Bosnia
Keywords: Hallam-Baker on Dershowitz
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 13:55:39 PDT
Distribution: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: Moon Macrosystems

Phill Hallam-Baker talking about anti-Semitism is like Saddam Hussein
(his buddy) talking about the plight of Iraq's children.

Mr. Baker, did you ever get around to reading your *second* book, or
did you quit after the first one?  :)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: Arab Jews are ARABS
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 02:59:38 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.234459.23656@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:
>
>In Article: 52259 of talk.politics.mideast, (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>
>>Strawman.  And from the postings of the previous 3 weeks, Khaled knows
>>it, too.  I strongly suggest, Khaled, that you start taking people at
>>their word, Khaled; strawman tactics are not legitimate debating
>>tactics, and in my book they're just plain despicable.  The fact is that
>>                                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Herzl, Weizmann et al. - the fathers of the Zionist movement - were not
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>religious men *at all*.  This has been repeated to you over and over
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>again.  You are obviously ignoring anything that doesn't agree with your
>>viewpoint, even when repeatedly proved wrong.
>
>     And how often do we STILL hear from many Israelis and Zionists,relegious
>fanatics or not, civilians or even GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS that this land 
>(Palestine) is the "Promised Land" by GOD, (or is he not part of religion??)

As Khaled well knows - or at least should well know - some do make that
claim, and some do not, as a basis for Zionism.  That fact *alone*
refutes his position, which enforces a false monolithicism on Zionism.

This is what has been stressed to you several times before, yet you
continue to twist words on it.


-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Re: Very Weak Zionist Claims Over Palestine
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:51:17 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.174433.17019@cs.brown.edu>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
|> 
|> kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:
|> #
|> #   First of all, the Arabs have never used religion as a mean to classify
|> #people as Arabs or non-Arabs.  There are thousands upon thousands of Arab Jews
|> #who are still living in Arab countries.  
|> 
|> But are they considered citizens and have equal rights?

My understanding, in Syria they are citizens and have equal civil rights,
except they are not allowed to serve in the army. They are even allowed to
have the Sabath on Saturday.

|> -Danny Keren.
|> 
|> 
A.Faris
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: adam@endor.uucp (Adam Shostack)
Subject: Hizbolah Attacjks SLA, UNFIL
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 17:33:57 GMT

From Israel Line, Sept 30:

Hundreds of Hizbullah Terrorists Attack SLA Posts in South Lebanon

Today's HA'ARETZ reports on the Hizbullah attacks Monday on South
Lebanese Army posts in the Security Zone. "Such an attack hasn't
been in years: hundreds of Hizbullah people shelled 11-15 SLA
posts," said a senior Israeli officer in the IDF's Northern
Command. He added that fifty Hizbullah terrorists attacked the main
SLA post near Rashef village. Two SLA soldiers were killed in the
attack, including the commander of the post, with four others
injured. The soldiers of the SLA posts responded by returning fire
at the Hizbullah and then chasing after them. During the chase,
four Hizbullah terrorists were killed and several injured. While
retreating, a Hizbullah terrorist fired an Rocket Propelled Grenade
at a UNIFIL post, trying to open a UNIFIL blockade. A UN observer
from the Irish battalion was killed and another one injured.


Adam Shostack 					adam@das.harvard.edu

What a terrible thing to have lost one's .sig.  Or not to have a .sig
at all.  How true that is.
From: John C. Mallery <jcma@ai.mit.edu>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: MAC Hypercard Stack of Clinton-Gore Position Papers and Speeches
Date: 28 Sep 92 11:38:37 GMT

A MAC Hypercard Stack of Clinton-Gore Position Papers and Speeches is
now available. If you would like a copy (800K / 1 disk), please send a
note to Michael (msagosta@cs.unlv.edu), who along with JBLIII authored
the Mac stack.

John Mallery
Join the Clinton/Gore '92
         Volunteer Email Campaign
Send To: CLINTON-WINS@Mail.Clinton-Gore.ORG
Subject: Volunteer Info
From: bgdv706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Very Weak Zionist Claims Over Palestine
Date: 30 Sep 92 04:35:11 GMT
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin

In article <bdm.717416634@cs.anu.edu.au>, bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:
> adam@sparkle.uucp (Adam Shostack) writes:

		[...] 


+>Jews then remained in Safed, Jerusalem, and other places around Israel
+>for the next 2000 years.
> 
> An irrelevantly small number did, yes.


	When does a small number become irrelevant?

	Is a continuous number of say, 10,000 along 1000 years irrelevant 
	compared to a wave of immigration of, say, 1,000,000 in 10 years?



> 
+>Most rational historical accounts have Muslims overrunning the area
+>in the 7th century, or so.  There is no evidence that there was any
+>historical continuity or ethnic separation between the 7th century
+>invaders and the local (non-Jewish) population, who you, without
+>evidence claim, were arab.
> 
> I don't know if they were Arab.  I don't think it makes a difference.
> What seems clear is that the locals adopted the culture and religion
> of the invaders.  Unless the locals were all killed off, the argument
> for continuous occupation stands.       =====



	Are you talking about the Jews that remained in Palestine
	or about the non-Jews? Do those who did not adopt the
	invador's culture and religion have somehow less rights than
	those who did?


> 
+>The Arabs, however, never really established a seperate statehood, or
+>nationality in Israel; there is no evidence untill the 20th century of
+>anyone getting attatched to the land.
> 
> I think the last part is silly.  How could they live there for 
> centuries and not be attached to the land?  They didn't show
> overt signs of it until the saw their position threatened; 
> seems what I would expect.  Do you think the Australian
> aborigines formed nationalist organisations during any of the
> 60,000+ years of occupation before white settlers arrived?
> Maybe they weren't attached to the land either?
> 
+>Adam
> 
> Brendan.


Noam