HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: blenko-tom@CS.YALE.EDU (Tom M. Blenko)
Subject: Re: Warrents
Reply-To: blenko-tom@cs.yale.edu
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:42:25 GMT


| >>>My general recommendation, is that buying a warrant or option 
| >>>is a lot closer to gambling than investing.
| >>
| >>Peter Lynch says that both he and Warren Buffet feel that
| >>options and futures trading should be banned. So you're
| >>in good company.
| >
| >In other words, they want to be able to disallow people to write
| >contracts between themselves ?  That doesn't sound like good
| >company to me. (no matter how much I admire PL and WB, I think
| >they are wrong on this issue)
| 
| I won't argue either side, but I think your statement of the case is
| simplified.  It is not merely a matter of whether people should or
| should not be allowed to write contracts.
| 
| Rather, the contracts themselves have become a negotiable
| commodity.
| 
| (And if we then turn around and write contracts on contracts, such
| as options on futures contracts, we now have a negotiable commodity
| twice removed.)

I don't get it. Options are insurance policies. Options
on options are reinsurance. What is the objection to
either, and why shouldn't they be traded as securities?

Certainly market theory suggests that options have an
important role to play.  

	Tom
From: devine@olympus.CS.Berkeley.EDU (bob devine)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Ruble futures market info?
Date: 17 Nov 1992 02:54:06 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: olympus.cs.berkeley.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET (Yaakov Kayman) writes:
: Now that the Soviet Union's gone and the Russian economy is opening up
: (it hopes) to foreign investors, where might one get some information
: about a rubles futures market?

I dont't think that any investor should plan on a stable Russian market.
The annual ruble-based inflation rate is estimated at > 2000%.  So that
leaves 3 possibilities:
	1. any trading profits you make are instantly devalued
	2. the markets collapse
	3. the ruble is declared as worthless

Currency trading is worth playing only if you are affiliated with
a deep-pockets source of money.  There is currently no stable market
that you can use to trade.  Bartering is about all that is semi-safe.

Bob Devine
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: yhari@uncc.edu (Yog Hari)
Subject: Re: Hot Ideas?
Reply-To: yhari@uncc.edu
Organization: University of NC at Charlotte
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 18:55:52 GMT

In article 27mi@terapin.com, dlaird@terapin.com (Delbert Laird) writes:
>In article <1992Nov12.182111.16342@mailer.cc.fsu.edu>,
>meyers@lorenz.ocean.fsu.edu (Steve Meyers) writes:
>>
>>Anyone other private investors out there care to post hot investment 
>>ideas (along with the reasons they're hot)? 
>>
>>Here's one of mine:
>>
>>GNLB: A medical research company. They recently have gone into 
>>late stage trials on several anti-viral medicines. Could 
>>take off in a year or so but it might crash if their medicines are 
>>not approved. 
>>
>>
>>-Steve
>------
>Here's one...PDLI.  Protein Design Labs out of Palo Alto, California.  Research
>and development of cancer and anti-viral medicines including an
>off-branch of Chiron's IL-2 (with Hoffman-LaRoche).
>
>Currently has FDA and Department of Health examining 2 projects for human
>testing allowance....Initial hype brought the stock from 7 1/4 to 11 7/8 in
>a very short time.
>
>High point of the stock was I believe 17 or 18....Will it go up?..Friday had
>MANY share trade hands but stock only rose 1/8...My guess is investors thought
>the price would peak and sold off their shares.
>
>dlaird@terapin.com


Here is another, Wholesome and Hearty Foods(whfi).  
They make Gardenburgers sold in several resturantes, universities, and stadiums.  They 
used the capital from their ipo to triple, yes triple there production capacity.  There is lot's of demand for their products and they have several new products that are
very good for lactose intolerant and heart patients.  Not to metion those vegetarians..
I predict a huge expansion.......If you need more info , mail me....

Yog Hari	yhari@mosaic.uncc.edu	fax 704 553 8795


Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: steve@cucbs.chem.columbia.edu (Steve Stuart)
Subject: Re: tax free funds & 33% tax bracket ?
Organization: Center for Biomolecular Simulation, Department of Chemistry,
	Columbia University
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 19:19:32 GMT

In article <1elkm7INN3q0@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> jxs18@po.CWRU.Edu (Jerry Sy) writes:



>why is a tax free bonds, or mutual funds always related to somebody
>with 33% tax bracket ?  why ? can't somebody with 20% tax bracket
>invest in tax free bonds ? is there something I'm missing ?

There's nothing to stop people in lower tax brackets from investing in
tax-free bonds - it's just not as smart for them as it is for those in
the highest tax brackets.  To match a 5% taxable yield, if you're in
the 20% tax bracket, you could settle for a 4% tax-free yield.  But
someone in a 33% tax bracket would be happy with just a 3.33% tax-free
yield.  So that group of people is going to bid the price of this
hypothetical tax-free bond up to where it will yield 3.33%, at which
point it will be equivalent to the 5% taxable investment.  Those in
the 20% tax bracket can't afford to pay these prices, so the price is
set by the group with the highest tax bracket.  Assuming, of course,
that there are enough investors in that tax bracket to buy all the
bonds that are offered.




-- 
-Steve

echo "a'rfg cnf Crpv | har" | tr '[a-m][n-z] ' '[n-z][a-m]\012' | sort | tr "\012" " " ; echo " "
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: GCTHORNE@idbsu.idbsu.edu (Broward Horne)
Subject:      Re: Inflation coming?
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 12:25:06 MST
X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA12481; Mon, 16 Nov 92 11:30:46 -0800
X-Received: by inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com; id AA22945; Mon, 16 Nov 92 11:30:39 -0800
X-Received: from IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU by idbsu.idbsu.edu (IBM VM SMTP R1.2.2MX) with BSMTP id 4290; Mon, 16 Nov 92 12:31:25 MST
X-Received: from IDBSU (GCTHORNE) by IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU (Mailer R2.08) with BSMTP id 0771; Mon, 16 Nov 92 12:31:25 MST
X-To: misc.invest.usenet

From: jaorans@pbhyg.PacBell.COM (Jeff Oransky)
Subject: Re: Inflation Coming? (Gold?)
Reply-To: jaorans@PacBell.COM (Jeff Oransky)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:08:08 GMT

>    Clinton also has some plans to increase some payroll taxes for businesses
>    to pay for health care/training costs.  Since this is an increased cost
>    of doing business, the cost will probably be passed on to the consumer
>    in the form higher prices (inflation).  Also it is unclear what the
>    impact of the passage of a family leave mandate will have on businesses
>    and subsequently inflation/unemployment.

      As an interesting aside, CNN "Overnight" had what had to be a
      running average graph of Spending Increases, Inflation Increases,
      and Personal Income Increases.  From the graph, it surely looked
      like the recent " upsurge " in spending was almost completely
      inflation driven, as both graphs had almost equal slopes.  In
      addition, the Personal Income direction was ambiguous, at best.

      With the recent inventory level unchanged, I take this as supporting
      my conclusion above.  Any unexpected spending increase should have
      depleted inventories.

      I.E.  No true growth.  Predictable.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: lott@bogner.informatik.uni-kl.de (Christopher Lott AGSE)
Subject: Re: Beginner questions -- where can we go for help?
Organization: Universitaet Kaiserslautern FB Informatik
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 07:47:12 GMT

In article <BxxJzG.A1r@news.fai.com> flake@flakes.ossi.com writes:
>What advise do you have for beginner investors?
>
>I had
>hoped to find an answer in the FAQ (in this case, First Asked Questions).

Ok, as compiler of the above-mentioned FAQ, I want to confess - I have
included in the FAQ strictly factual articles (what is X, what is Y) and
have purposefully excluded articles on investment advice.  One exception
that I would gladly make is to include an article for exactly the question
posed above: "I'm a beginner, I have X dollars, where do I start?"

The general concensus that I have seen here seems to start with no-load
mutual funds, long-haul thinking, and a recommended reading list.  

Would anyone like to write an article for the FAQ, say, max 100 lines,
that could get a beginner on the road to sensible investing?  (Note that
I didn't say profitable :-)  If a few people respond, I'll combine their
articles somehow and we'll iterate until we get a good version.

thanks.

chris...
-- 
Christopher Lott    lott@informatik.uni-kl.de   +49 (631) 205-3334, -3331 Fax
Post: FB Informatik - Bau 57, Universitaet KL, W-6750 Kaiserslautern, Germany
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Inheritance forthcoming...advice sought
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:58:44 GMT
Keywords: Loop Holes - NOT

In article <1992Nov18.212338.27705@ferrari.nmc.ed.ray.com> smiles@NMC.ED.RAY.COM (Kevin Ruddy) writes:
>In article <BxvCuL.3y5@news.cso.uiuc.edu> acheng@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Albert Cheng) writes:
>>What is stopping people from forming a "gift-swap-club" (read tax evasion
>>joint)?  Say the club has 10 members.  All of them want to gift their
>>one kid $100K this year.  Here is scheme:
>>	Each member gifts his/her kid $10K;
>>	Each member gifts the other nine members $10K each;
>>	Each member then gifts $10K to every other members' kids.
>>
>>$100K from each member channeled to his/her kid tax free.  Any problem
>>besides upsetting IRS?
>
>Yeah.  Try and pry the money out of your fellow clubmembers' hands after
>they've got it!
>
>Actually, this could be done with third-party involvement; some kind of
>escrow would be in order.  But if the reason for this is to sidestep an
>inheritance -- which assumes that the person with the money will die in the
>relatively near-term -- these clubs wouldn't last very long!  Members who
>recently joined would be leaving just as quickly.  The club's membership
>would be very hard to maintain, it would seem.

Besides, it's clearly going to get you into serious trouble.  Can
you spell felony?

It is the difference between tax avoidance -- a nice hobby we should
all practice, and tax evasion, which can get you a trip away from
home for a long time.

The IRS has some curious ways to distinguish between a "gift" and
income or tax evasion schemes.  They say a gift must be bone fide -
real.

If I want to give you a gift because you're a nice guy and I happen
to feel like giving you a gift, and I expect nothing in return, and
I have no reason to expect anything in return, that's more or less
a bone fide gift.

But if I have some expectation of getting something in return --
Judge Wapner will talk about "consideration" -- then it isn't a gift
at all.

So a "gift club"   or "social club" that works  as described fails
the "no expectation" rule.

The IRS has already prosecuted so-called "barter clubs" where, let's
say, a doctor and a lawyer and a plumber and a carpenter and ..."
all get together, and agree to give gifts of their services to each
other.  The IRS has made it exceptionally clear to those folks that
such "barter" arrangements must be treated as income by the
receiver.

Look.  Say I'm an employer and I need someone to do some work for
me.  You think you'd want to work for me.  I tell you I don't
want to pay you for helping me out, but I am a very generous
person who gives out gifts to people whom I like, all the time.

So you do some work for me and at the end of the week I give you a
nice gift.  Same thing each and every week.

These gifts are not gifts, even if both you and I agree that they
are.  The IRS has to also agree, and we both know they won't.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: floydb@rpi.edu
Subject: re: How to Protect Capital Gains?
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:30:55 GMT



>3) You could buy puts. You can't get called on the options and you
>   don't realize any profit this year from the transaction. You
>   lock in the sale price even if the stock goes down. If the stock
>   goes up, you could sell the put options at a loss or you could
>   let them expire worthless. If you don't want to loose much on
>   the put options and you don't think the stock will go up too
>   much in the next two months then you could buy puts in the money
>   at a strike price six months out (April/May). With the stock
>   price staying the same time-value will have little impact and
>   intrinsic value will remain constant, you might loose 10% to time
>   plus commissions.
>
>good luck
>
>barry
>

I forgot to mention that in choice 3) the value of the put options
goes up as the stock goes down. Of course the potential capital
gain on the retained stock decreases. However, if you buy in the
money put options to begin with then the decreasing stock price
could increase option intrinsic value faster than the decrease
in time-value so that the value of the options increase or remain
constant.

For example: Buy an April put at $15 with the stock at $13 1/2;
premium might be $1 1/2 instrinsic plus $1 time value = $2 1/2 cost;
the stock goes to $10 on Feb. 1st-> $5 intrinsic plus $1/2 time value
= $5 1/2. You originally paid $2 1/2 for options worth $5 1/2 now,
however your stock is now worth $3 1/2 less, with net loss = $1/2
per share, which may be attributed to the decreased time-value
of the options. 

You could sell the puts and buy more stock with the proceeds if
you felt the stock would go up again, or you could exercise the
puts at $15 and buy back the stock at $10, or simply sell the
puts and retain the stock.

Commissions cost will probably dictate which choice you make if
you are dealing with small quantities of stock (100 shares) vs
large quantities of stock (10,000 shares).

good luck again

barry

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: iba@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Wayne Iba)
Subject: Still Another Q on Ford vs. Discover
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:06:42 GMT


It seems like there has been conflicting information reported here
regarding the Ford card and its cash-back details.

I have the (an) application in front of me and it says "automatic 0.5%
rebate on every purchase you make, but it becomes a 1.5% rebate ... in
any month when you have carried forward any part of your balance from
the previous month."

Perhaps the graduated scheme that I saw reported here earlier was 
intended to apply to the Discover card?  If so, would someone please
either email (or repost) the scheme?  A simple analysis could say
if you purchase less than $X per month on your card, then use the Ford
for its wider recognition (VISA/Mastercard) but if you spend > $X then
use the Discover card.  

--wayne



Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: jmuth@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (John Muth)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Beginner questions -- where can we go for help?
Date: 19 Nov 92 17:39:02 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

In article <BxxJzG.A1r@news.fai.com> flake@flakes.ossi.com writes:
>Hello,
>
>It seems my wife and I have money *sitting* in our checking account.
>
>Neither of us have MBA's and neither of us have the time or desire to
>study-up on all the ins and outs of investing.
>
>We think we want something like an Investment Advisory Service --
>hopefully one which charges an hourly-based rather than percentage
>based fee.  Is there such a thing?  And are there any recommendations
>for one in the southern SF Bay Area?
>
>What advise do you have for beginner investors?

Go to the library and check out some books on investment basics. You don't
have to become experts, but you do have to learn something before investing. 
Concentrate on books about finacial planning and no-load mutual funds. 
Until you feel comfortable with the subject and start to get an idea of 
what sort of investments are compatable with risks you are willing to 
take, just leave your money in the bank.

In the meantime, avoid anyone calling themselves a "Financial Planner".
I most cases these are insurance sales(wo)men. No matter what your
circumstances, you can bet their advise will be to buy a whole life 
policy.

-John Muth
From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Inflation Coming? (Gold?)
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:45:29 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

In article <1992Nov16.000222.4186@adobe.com> kendall@adobe.com (Janice Kendall) writes:
>For what it's worth, here is Bob Brinker's view on the possibility of
>inflation under Clinton (paraphrased):
>
>  There are two ways that Clinton can cause inflation:
>
>	1) Monetary policy via the Federal Reserve Board.  Greenspan
>	   has made it clear that he will not pursue inflationary policy
>	   and Greenspan will be chairman until 1996.
>
>	2) Spending.  There isn't any money to spend.  Clinton talks
>	   about spending 30-50 billion on infrastructure projects, but
>	   Brinker sees this as pocket change in an economy of our size.
>
>So, Brinker does not see inflation on the horizon.
>
> Janice Kendall    kendall@adobe.com    ...!{decwrl|sun}!adobe!kendall
>
>      Don't Panic!  Clinton will be our *42*nd President.

What about an actual devaluation of the currency, by various
subterfuges?  This was a principle advocated by Keynes to 
increase government revenues without increasing taxes.  
The discount rate could continue to drop until finally it
started to effect long term rates, leading to a big credit
based inflation which, once it got started could run away
with itself.  I think.  May be wrong.  All I know is that
a few years ago we had what looked like endlessly runaway
inflation, and nobody believed it would ever reverse itself
or that interest rates would fall.  Now we have something
like the reverse, plus a government desparately in need
(or want) of money.  Is "what comes down must go up" not a
basic principle of economics?

Just asking.  Not panicking yet.
From: mike@ksr.com (Mike Schloss)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Info Request on Short and Intermediate Term Bond Funds
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:11:17 EST
Distribution: usa
Organization: Kendall Square Research Corp.

I am looking for information on short and intermediate term taxable and
tax-free bond funds.  I am currently leaning towards Strong's Short Term
Bond Fund but I am also considering Dreyfus' Massachusetts Tax Exempt
Intermediate Term Bond Fund.  I am more concerned about the risk
associated with holding longer term notes than I am with the risk of
holding less that AAA quality bonds.  It would also be advantageous if
the fund had associated money-market funds (taxable and non-taxable) as
I have no intention of reinvesting capital gains and/or dividends.  I am
only considering no-load mutual funds.  If anyone has any recommendations
I would be happy to hear from them.  Recommendations from MA residents
would be greatly appreciated as I would like to hear how they made their
decisions degrading taxable vs. tax-free vs. double tax-free funds.

Mike Schloss
mike@ksr.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: gary@intrepid.com (Gary Funck)
Subject: Re: Exp. with Hibbard Brown
Organization: Intrepid Technology, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:56:40 GMT

In article <1992Nov22.194034.890@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>In article <38731@twerp.ease.arco.com> cahuja@twerp.ease.arco.com (Chander Ahuja) writes:
>>Does anyone have experience using Hibbard Brown brokerage firm - have they
>>provided good advice, kept you upto date on happenings etc...am looking
>>to get involved with them , thought i'd see if anyone had any priors...
>
>
>Advice?  Avoid them at all costs.   If they call hang up.  If they
>want to talk, hang up.
>

Art is saving you a lot of money here, if you follow his advice.

I personally was involved with three (it takes me a while) different
"penny brokers".  I eeked a profit out of two of them *only because
I sold when I wanted to, and did not hold as they recommended*, and
lost BIG on the other because I actually believed they knew
more than I did.  This was in the face of contradicting evidence
(I'd call them up, ask them about some info. I'd read and they were
clueless).

As Art says later in his note, the brokers that are good at this
are true professionals  -- keep your money in your pocket and tell
them to get lost.  Art's points about wide bid/ask spreads and
learning who the market makers are is also key to survival in the
penny stock market.  [sidenote: if your broker's firm is a market
maker, they are not supposed to charge you commission.  They made
their money on the bid/ask (which was probably wide) and probably
sold to you from their inventory.  I actually had one of these
clowns try and tack an extra 5/8 on a $12 stock they make a
market in.  They tried to defend this on a "we found you a great
deal" basis.  The stock is 3-3/8 a year later ... any questions?]

If you haven't done so, look for the Forbes article (early Oct)
covering H.B., F.N. Wolf and others.  It'll make your hair stand
on end.

   - Gary
-- 
| Gary Funck  		    gary@intrepid.com  [uunet!uupsi!intrepid!gary]
| Intrepid Technology Inc., Mountain View CA (415) 964-8135
--
From: fjh@bbn.com (Frederick J Hirsch)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Software desired?
Date: 18 Nov 92 21:11:54 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

I am trying to do some market research on what people would want/need 
for software for doing financial analysis including investments.
I am thinking in terms of PCs, palmtops and other machines.

I guess I have two questions. What software do you wish existed, and what is 
the best thing you have found for managing investments, doing financial 
calculations and the like.

Please send email to fjh@bbn.com. I will attempt to post a summary.

Thanks