HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again.
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Date: 22 Jan 1993 17:47:42 GMT
Organization: N.I.C.E.
Reply-To: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.60
Summary: They are Everywhere

Paul Smee writes:
>based on ancestry.  The fact of the matter is that there are few, if
>any people in the world who can claim to be descended from the original
>inhabitants of wherever they live.

>To take NI as an example -- we have the 'Irish' Irish ....
>a mere few hundred years ago.  However, most of these 'Irish' Irish are
>Gaels -- they didn't originate in Ireland, but rather invaded Ireland
>from Scotland, taking over from the Picts, about 1000-1500 years ago.

Sheesh -- You'd think people who'd like to wade in here with an
argument would crack a book once in a while.  I mean, everybody
who is anybody in this here debate knows full well that the
"Gaels" are the descendents of Space Aliens, as Whitley
Strieber proved.  Do your homework, pal!

>So, by the same arguments they use, they don't belong there either, and
>ought to move back to Scotland where they belong.

>I'm not sure who they took over from.  (The reason you don't hear much
>about them is that they were completely wiped out by the Gaels.  I
>suppose there may be a lesson in this, but it's not a very pleasant

I'll bet those Picts were space aliens too.  Considering their
legendary clothing style they just couldn't have been human.

>This is NOT an attempt to justify the British handling of NI.  Rather,

Heck, no.

>even further.  All you end up with is more Bosnias.  Someone is going
>to have to make the breakthrough of figuring out a different way of
>looking at these problems.  ('Whoever holds it now gets it', which is

How about, "convert everyone to Islam".
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,alt.news.macedonia,soc.culture.misc
Subject: Re: Info on Macedonia
Date: 26 Jan 93 10:30:43 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England

From article <Jan24.214235.67995@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, by irakliot@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Leo J. Irakliotis):
> In article <carlos.727894949@morgan>, carlos@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Miguel Borges) writes:
> |> 
> |> You can't be serious.  Is this what the big controversy is over
> |> Macedonia?  The Name?  HAHAHAHAHAH!
> 
> The name is just the tip of the iceberg. This should be clear by now.
> Perhaps the following official document released by the US Dept of State
> in 1944, might help you a bit:



Chronology check - this is 1993

Andy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna,soc.culture.croatia
From: medvidov@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Nenad Medvidovid)
Subject: Re: NPR: Bosnia Faces Aggression now from Croats
Followup-To: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Reply-To: medvidov@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Nenad Medvidovid)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:08:36 GMT

In article <1jmqsa$hld@agate.berkeley.edu> boyle@kirkuk.berkeley.edu (Joseph Boyle) writes:
>In article <C17t4G.Iyx@apollo.hp.com> goykhman@apollo.hp.com (Red Herring) writes:
>

	[STUFF DELETED]

>I think so.  The Bosnian government and armed forces include Croats and
>Serbs as well as Muslims, and has consistently supported a pluralist
>democratic state through the whole conflict.  Government-held areas now
>hold mostly Muslims, but this is more because the government lost Serb-
>or Croat- majority areas early on, because government-held areas have 
>received Muslim refugees, and because only Serbs or Croats are welcomed
>as refugees in Serbia or Croatia, not because of massacres or expulsion.
>

	[MORE STUFF DELETED]

	I do not intend to dispute your statement that Bosnian gov't and
armed forces do indeed include Croats and Serbs.  Probably true, although I
would for once like to see a name, any name, associated with the Bosnian army
or gov't that wasn't Muslim.  But then, of course, it would just make me wonder
further how it is that, while they had no intentions of living in the same
country - Yugoslavia - Muslims, Croats, and Serbs (at least some of the latter
two) have no problem living together and fighting for B-H.  And, please, do not
give me the "Serbian dominated" arguments.  I lived in the ex-Yugoslavia most of
my life and can be the judge of that for myself (i.e. I don't buy it for a
moment).
	However, I would appreciate it if you could substantiate your claim that
"only Serbs and Croats are welcomed as refugees in Serbia and Croatia."  Whereas
it has only been hinted by the press that there are a number of Muslims who
escaped to Serbia (this claim has been floating around relatively often lately),
how can you possibly deny (or ignore) the fact that Croatia has embraced (more
or less) tens of thousands of Muslim refugees?
	There is plenty of blame to go around in Yugoslavia.  Let's give some
credit where it is due as well.

Peace,

Nenad Medvidovic  


Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:10659 alt.news.macedonia:150 soc.culture.misc:549
From: anderson@sapir.cog.jhu.edu (Stephen Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,alt.news.macedonia,soc.culture.misc
Subject: Re: Info on Macedonia
Date: 24 Jan 93 19:31:31 GMT
	<Jan22.214458.56574@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> <carlos.727895790@morgan>
Organization: Dept. of Cognitive Science, The Johns Hopkins University
In-reply-to: carlos@morgan.ucs.mun.ca's message of 24 Jan 93 17:16:30 GMT

>>>>> On 24 Jan 93 17:16:30 GMT, carlos@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Miguel Borges) said:


	CMB> How dare those capitalist pigs in Georgia, U.S.A. use the
	CMB> name of the Republic of Georgia (of the X-USSR) ?  They
	CMB> don't speak "Georgian" there, and besides - they haven't
	CMB> been there as long.

Actually, it's only in English, French, German, etc. that "Georgia"
(the place in the Caucasus) and the "Georgian language" spoken there
are called that. In [sic] Georgian, the place is Kartli, and the
language "kartul ena". In Russian, the root is gruzh- (as in
"gruzhinskij jazyk" 'Georgian language') etc. So neither they nor the
citizens of Atlanta (and Athens...), GA pose a nationalist threat to
each other.

That's a relief :-)

--Steve Anderson
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna,soc.culture.croatia
From: goykhman@apollo.hp.com (Red Herring)
Subject: Re: NPR: Bosnia Faces Aggression now from Croats
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:20:27 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1993Jan22.224828.939@walter.bellcore.com> cza@troy.cc.bellcore.com (C. Akgun) writes:
>In article <C19t2s.Hru@apollo.hp.com> goykhman@apollo.hp.com (Red Herring) writes:

>>    Also, could you name a single Islamic "pluralist democratic"
>>    state?  Turkey?  Isn't that a country where the Kurds are
              ^^^^^^
>>    denied the right to speak their own language (imagine 
>>    prohibiting Hispanics from speaking Spanish)?
>>
>
>Aren't you Alex Goykhman that I've encountered before because of 
>snobby slurs against Azerbeycanis by calling them animals?  
>If not, my appologies from A. Goykhman.  Otherwise, the alias- Red 
>Herring (or yellow-snapper for that matter) cannot disguise your Muslim 
>xenophobia.                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^
  
    Isn't "C. Akgun" just a copy of the "Argic/Mutlu" hatemongering AI
    program designed to scan Usenet feed and kick in every time the word 
    "Turkey" gets mentioned?

    If so, could it be re-written to produce a copy of the original article 
    every time a human is being slandered based on the alleged contents 
    of that article?  I guess not.  In fact, I am willing to bet that 
    the "Argic/Mutlu" virus only exists to shield one or more professional 
    slanderers from legal action.

    BTW, you surely "meant" anti-Muslim, not Muslim, xenophobia.
    Is it a bug, or is the program now capable of Freudian-slips?




-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Follow the money" Deep Throat
Disclaimer: Other opinions are mine only
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: damir@infopls.chi.il.us (Damir Matanic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: Argicman Matanic
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 19:25:18 CST
Organization: INFOPLUS support, Wheeling, IL

wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Edward Wiener) writes:

> 
> Damir Matanic, an unrepentant admirer of Pavelic,  writes:
> 
> 
> >Croatia and Serbia-Why is their peaceful separation a European necessity!
> >by Dr. George Cesarich
> >Cultural Publishing Center
> >Chicago, IL
> >1954
> >
> >Chap. 1, p.19
> >
> >"There are certain idiosyncrasies of the Serbian national character of 
>                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >which the outside world is totally unaware....We have particulary in mind 
> >the Serbian propensity to narcissiam, megalomania, and mystification.
>      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  
> >Many Serbians, and specially their leading circles, gravitate 
> >execessively to these mental attitudes which are unknown to most 
>                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >Croatians...
>  ^^^^^^^^^
> 
> 
> 
>       This garbage was written by Cesarich of the CULTURAL Publishing
>       Center?  Are these two guys for real?
>    
>       I'm certainly impressed by the magnitude of hatred harboured
>       by Croats in the West, an attitude they share with some diaspora
>       communities from other regions of Eastern Europe -- Russia,
>       Ukraine, etc.  There won't be any peace in the Balkans anytime
>       soon, I'm afraid.
> 
> -- Ed


  Hey!!!  Eddie's back!!!!!!!

Well, Weener, who invited you?  Serbo-fascist trash such as yourself do 
not belong on this newsgroup.  Go back to your fascist friends at 
s.c.yugo.  
  So, you don't like my citation, huh?  The truth really stings doesn't 
it.  That citation explains perfectly what the Serbian mentality is, and 
because of that, you can't handle it. You just can't accept the truth, 
can you Weener? Huh...  Of course you can't.  You're a sick puppy Edward. 
Only a sick, mentaly disturbed individual such as yourself and your 
fascist friends can openly support Serb cetnik terrorists who have killed 
100,000 Muslim civilians, raped thousands of women (so that they can 
spread the 'Serbian seed'), mutilated countless Croat and Muslim 
civilians and destroyed their cultural heritage, etc...  
  The Croats and Muslims experienced this same type of treatment during 
the first Yugo, and afterwards during the war.  We reponded then, and 
we'll repond now.  If peace indeed doesn't return to the Balkans, the 
primary responsibility for it's failure will lie with Belgrade's hords 
and individuals such as youself.
  
   Crawl back into the manure from where you came from, stoko.

Damir

--
damir@infopls.chi.il.us (Damir Matanic)
Infoplus BBS, +1 708 537 0247, v32bis. Home of Infoplus.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:10751 soc.culture.europe:11492
From: chemae@jane.uh.edu (Todorov, Stanislav S.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Wherefore art thou, Khruschev [was Re: Info on Macedonia]
Date: 28 Jan 1993 09:30 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <Jan26.211139.74290@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, irakliot@lance.colostate.edu writes...
>In article <C1H6wG.F2B@gabriel.keele.ac.uk>, cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear) writes:
>|> Of course not. But then I don't like bullying and when I see Greece
>|> trying to bludgon a small country like Macedonia I feel it's necessary
>|> to set the record straight. As for inaccuracy I wonder if you've ever
>|> looked at Greek propaganda on this issue recently.
> 
>Andy:
>I am quite impressed by your gentle feelings for FYRM a small country that
>Greece bludgon. You are really a noble soul. Do you have similar feelings
>for UK bludgon Ireland?
> 
> 
>-- 
>Leo J Irakliotis                 irakliot@eva.lance.colostate.edu
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>Electrical Engineering                      l.irakliotis@ieee.org
>Colorado State U
>(303) 491-2021                              Optical Computing Lab

Some thirty years ago, an eminent Soviet politician [see subject line] when
asked by his contemporary American president about violations of human rights
in the USSR, replied: "And why do you beat up Negroes?". [politically correct
term for an afroamerican at the time]

Good to see the tradition is alive.

ST
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:10701 soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna:1365 soc.culture.croatia:503
From: ir@escher.unh.edu (Ivo Raznjevic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna,soc.culture.croatia
Subject: Re: Good News from U.S.
Date: 22 Jan 1993 19:42:55 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: escher.unh.edu

In article <1jpb8vINN3eh@SUNED.ZOO.CS.YALE.EDU>, jovanovic-nick@cs.yale.edu (Nick Jovanovic) writes:
> 
> Croatia has
> troops in B-H, Croatia violates the no-fly zone, Croatia violates the arms
> embargo, Croatia violates human and civil rights of minorities, Croatia
> is grabbing land in B-H (Herceg-Bosna), Croatia is guilty of ethnic
> cleansing, Croatia is guilty of having atrocious POW camps, etc.  WHY ARE
  ^^^^^^^^^
Yup, especialy in the Serb contoled areas whichare full of Croats and
Muslims. And I wonder why all those Muslim refuges go to Croatia, instead 
to Serboslavia
Croatia is guilty because it is Croatia.

> THERE NO SANCTIONS ON CROATIA???  What message do you think that sends to
> Serbia and ethnic Serbs in other countries?

Serbs are wrong , Croats are OK. How about that message.

> 
> -Nick

-- Ivo
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,alt.news.macedonia,soc.culture.misc
From: jtsilla@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu (James Tsillas)
Subject: Re: Info on Macedonia
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA
	<1993Jan22.014007.6171@news.weeg.uiowa.edu>
	<1993Jan24.185354.4249@enea.se>
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 00:32:29 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.185354.4249@enea.se> sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:

   Xref: random.ccs.northeastern.edu soc.culture.yugoslavia:11720 alt.news.macedonia:144 soc.culture.misc:771
Path: random.ccs.northeastern.edu!lynx!noc.near.net!hri.com!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!Germany.EU.net!mcsun!sunic!seunet!enea!sommar
   From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
   Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,alt.news.macedonia,soc.culture.misc
   Date: 24 Jan 93 18:53:54 GMT
   References: <1993Jan21.072031.29283@wam.umd.edu> <C186BL.A9I@gabriel.keele.ac.uk> <1993Jan22.014007.6171@news.weeg.uiowa.edu>
   Organization: Enea Data AB
   Lines: 20

	[del]

   I hope even a Greek can understand which sacrifice is the largest,
   having to "share" or having to abandon completely. But of course
   Greeks are so much more worth than any other people so solely their
   desires should be fulfilled. Go fuck yourselves.

Perhaps your energies, Erland, can be channelled more constructively
through one of the many new youth organizations spinging up all around
the north. Of course you may need a haircut to join :-) I think Greeks
understand all too much.. they understand that now is the time to speak
out about this issue.

Oh and BTW why should we fuck ourselves when we have nice Scandinavian
girls to help us. (My apologies to anyone else who read this).

-Jim.

   -- 
   Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
--
	***  James Tsillas  jtsilla@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu   ***
	***      Work: (508)898-2800, Home: (617)641-0513        ***
	***        "He is after me. Jim is after him."           ***
	***            - Hop on Pop, Dr. Seuss                   ***
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,alt.news.macedonia,soc.culture.misc
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Info on Macedonia
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:02:02 GMT

In article <C186BL.A9I@gabriel.keele.ac.uk> cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear) writes:
>By this reasoning the Grand Duchy of Luxemburg can't have a constitution
>either as there's a province called Luxemburg in Belgium. Come to think
>of it perhaps we don't have a constitution in England because there's
>part of France called Bretagne (Britain). Let's try not to be silly.
>There is indeed a province in the North of Greece called Macedonia and
>no one, including the government of the Republic of Macedonia disputes
>its right to that name or of the GraecoMacedonians to call themselves
>Macedonians. However there is also the Republic of Macedonia which has
>an equal right to this name and part of Bulgaria with similar rights. No
>one group has exclusive rights here, there isn't one sort of Macedonian
>there are many.

But the people in the UK don't go around complaining about Britain being
partitioned between the UK and France, and complaining about the oppressed
British minority in Bretagne....
--
"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Leftover Turkey!
On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Turkey Casserole
    that she made from Leftover Turkey.
[days 3-4 deleted] ...  Flaming Turkey Wings! ...
   -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
From: cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,alt.news.macedonia,soc.culture.misc
Subject: Re: Info on Macedonia
Date: 21 Jan 93 22:26:08 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England

From article <1993Jan21.072031.29283@wam.umd.edu>, by yiannis@wam.umd.edu (IOANNIS VELISSARAKOS  ATHINA-HELLAS):
> 
> 	Macedonia doesn't have any Constitution of its own. MAcedonia is
> 	a province in Greece (Northern Greece) and its people are 
> 	Greek citizens under the Greek constitution. Also, the laws
> 	which are existed in Macedonia are the same ones as the ones in 
> 	the rest of Greece. I hope that I helped you a little bit.
 
By this reasoning the Grand Duchy of Luxemburg can't have a constitution
either as there's a province called Luxemburg in Belgium. Come to think
of it perhaps we don't have a constitution in England because there's
part of France called Bretagne (Britain). Let's try not to be silly.
There is indeed a province in the North of Greece called Macedonia and
no one, including the government of the Republic of Macedonia disputes
its right to that name or of the GraecoMacedonians to call themselves
Macedonians. However there is also the Republic of Macedonia which has
an equal right to this name and part of Bulgaria with similar rights. No
one group has exclusive rights here, there isn't one sort of Macedonian
there are many.

BTW if anyone does know of a useful ftp site please post it.

Andy
From: Institute for Global Communications <pnbalkans@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Date: 25 Jan 93 10:55 PST
Subject: No Armenian Genocide here, please
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1475300390:000:119
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!pnbalkans    Jan 25 10:55:00 1993


Please leave the discussion about whether or not there was an
Armenian genocide in soc.culture.turkey.

Joel GAzis-SAx
From: wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Edward Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.croatia,soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Argicman Matanic
Date: 23 Jan 93 22:29:54 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.


Damir Matanic, an unrepentant admirer of Pavelic,  writes:


>Croatia and Serbia-Why is their peaceful separation a European necessity!
>by Dr. George Cesarich
>Cultural Publishing Center
>Chicago, IL
>1954
>
>Chap. 1, p.19
>
>"There are certain idiosyncrasies of the Serbian national character of 
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>which the outside world is totally unaware....We have particulary in mind 
>the Serbian propensity to narcissiam, megalomania, and mystification.
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  
>Many Serbians, and specially their leading circles, gravitate 
>execessively to these mental attitudes which are unknown to most 
                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Croatians...
 ^^^^^^^^^



      This garbage was written by Cesarich of the CULTURAL Publishing
      Center?  Are these two guys for real?
   
      I'm certainly impressed by the magnitude of hatred harboured
      by Croats in the West, an attitude they share with some diaspora
      communities from other regions of Eastern Europe -- Russia,
      Ukraine, etc.  There won't be any peace in the Balkans anytime
      soon, I'm afraid.

-- Ed
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,alt.news.macedonia,soc.culture.misc
From: carlos@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Miguel Borges)
Subject: Re: Info on Macedonia
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:34:59 GMT

cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear) writes:
>Is this a reference to the old communist constitution or the one
>adopted since Independence?? I have a feeling that it might be the
>former which is not an entirely honest way of arguing.

Exactly.  But then again, such fanatics rarely argue honestly.
When they feel their arguements are weak, they immediately attack
you personally.  Every response I've gotten has done this.

And fanatics rarely answer direct questions.                  

-- 
\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\
C. Miguel Borges        and his EVIL TWIN BROTHER (tm)        Carlos M. Borges
carlos@morgan.ucs.mun.ca <-------------------------> carlos@garfield.cs.mun.ca
Memorial University of Newfoundland, St. John's, NF. Canada []*[] <- flag
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,alt.news.macedonia,soc.culture.misc