HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 12:23:57 EDT
From:         Cal <PRYLUCK@VM.TEMPLE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: PS to the previous post about JFK
Comments: To: History <HISTORY%RUTVM1.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>
              4 Sep 1992 14:48:01 EDT from
              <MAINT2%ERS.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>

Lenny is right when he says there were few (none, really) amateur 16mm
cameras by 1963.  8mm and Super8mm had superceded the earlier amateur
gear.

As a matter of arithmatic, both 8mm and Super8mm film is exactly half
the width of 16mm.  But, the frame area for 8mm was one-quarter that of
16mm and S8 was more like one-third the frame area of 16mm.  What makes
all of this relevant is that all films used the same emulsion with the
same grain size so that an 8mm blowup had inherently lower resolution
than either of the other sizes.  These technical facts account for the
fuzziness of the Zapruda footage.  The apparent resolution might be
increased by computer enhancement technology.  My memory tells me nothing
about whether computer enhancement was available in 1963.

Cal Pryluck                               <PRYLUCK@VM.TEMPLE.EDU>
Dept of Radio-Television-Film             <PRYLUCK@TEMPLEVM>
Temple University
Philadelphia, PA 19122                    voice (215) 247-9663
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From: bayla@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Bayla Singer)
Subject: Re: Those with any kinda houses shouldn't throw stones
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 08:14:52 GMT

Will someone plese explain to me what is going on here? -- bayla

In <HISTORY%92090720243502@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU> "Daniel A. Foss" <DFOSS@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU> writes:

>I ain't got no kinda life, Bayla, you call me a liar, you got the
documentation 
>from my private correspondence files landing in folks' mailboxes on a
selective 
>basis, bye now, was notathreat.

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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:57:00 CST
From:         JCFITZHARRIS@STTHOMAS.EDU
Subject:      Call for Papers
Comments: To: HISTORY%RUTVM1.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU

			CALL FOR PAPERS AND SESSIONS
			Agricultural Studies Section
		      Western Social Science Association
		21-24 April 1993	Corpus Christi, Texas

Proposals for papers and sessions on agricltural history and economics,
climatology, rural sociology, and rural studies are solicited.  Please
submit them by 1 November 1992 to:  Joseph C. Fitzharris, Dept. of
History, Mail #4018, University of St. Thomas, St. Paul, MN 55105 or
JCFitzharris@StThomas.edu.  (612) 647-5667.

Please post this notice on any relevant lists you subscribe to.  Thanks. Joe
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 10:02:00 EDT
From:         DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Oldest City in North America?

On Fri, 11 Sep 1992 08:30:11 EST "Sidney W. Kitchel"
<kitchel@OCTOPUS.DPSI.COM> said:

> 	It is usually written that Oraibi was established
> approximately 1000 years ago. This makes the present Old Oraibi a good
> candidate for longest inhabited town in North America. It is, however,
> not a city and certainly was not established by the stinkin'
> Europeans.
> 	Acoma, the Sky City, is also old and in the Oraibi class for
> longevity. But it too is not a city. Possibly the title should go to
> Mexico.

All right, clearly we must define our terms.
(1) There is pretty much agreement, I think, that by "longest
continuously inhabited city in North America" we mean inhabited
by people, not limited to Europeans.
(2) However, what do we mean by "city." I have been assuming that
"city" is short-hand for "urban area as opposed to rural area,"
rather than "big urban area as opposed to little urban area."
Mr. Kitchel, however, seems to be using "city" to mean the latter.
I do not like that usage, because it gets into the question of
how big is big.
Denis Paz
dgpaz@clemson.bitnet
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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 09:35:42 EDT
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2
From:         Allan Needell <NASSH100@SIVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The advent of "technological secrecy"

From: Allan Needell

Austin, et. al.,

Perhaps we need a taxonomy of "secrecy." Certainly the secrecy surrounding
proprietary information by a company is common and long-standing. That hardly
conflicts with or strains the principles and function of the American
political economy--it is quite a part of it. Of course strains already occur
once you have government involvement and public funds used to develop new
technology; further strains develop when major public policy issues turn
essentially on information held secret from policy makers or from the public.

Allan Needell
National Air & Space Museum
Smithsonian Institution
Washington, DC 20560  (BITNET: NASSH100@SIVM)
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 09:10:00 EDT
From:         DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET
Subject: re: Clinton Administration?

On Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:36:32 +1000 Marion Diamond
<med@LINGUA.CLTR.UQ.OZ.AU> said:

> Denis,
> George Bush's promise of subsidies to wheat producers in America
> don't look like the Manchester School at work from here (a wheat-
> growing competitor which doesn't subsidise grain).

You are correct. One also might add Bush's policy of lots of
lolly for the victims of Hurricane Andrew. A good mancunian
economist I suppose would let them rot and wait for the invisible
hand to do its work. Like the Potato Famine.
How about this?
George Bush is a believer in the Manchester School of
economics, but he also believes in buying votes.

> On a related issue, has it ever struck anyone that there is a
> fascinating parallel between the Japanese determinatio to protect
> its rice producers, and the 19C Corn Laws?  Both were based partly
> on the need to protect conservative rural electors, both were
> continued long after their respective countries had become far too
> powerful economically to need such protection, both increase/d the
> costs of labour for the manufacturers (and artificially reduced the
> supply of land for housing), and both were/are based partly on
> a perceived fear of starvation which has continued for 40+ years since
> their involvement in global war, and partly on a quasi-religious
> identification with this particular grain as the staff of life,
> which should not be surrendered to foreign producers.

Very interesting parallels--I don't think that the Victorians had
quite the same quasi-religious view of corn as the Japanese apparently
do of rice--although of course corn becomes bread which then becomes
the body of christ -- but most supporters of the corn laws, the
ultra-tories, also believed in the Protestant Constitution and
rejected with contempt the doctrine of the real presence.

Denis Paz
dgpaz@clemson.bitnet
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13:31:00 EDT
From:         JOSE@CLEMSON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: How Low is Higher Education in Clinton's state?

On Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13:06:00 EDT DGPAZ said:
> On Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:52:00 CST CAMPBELL-JENSEN <CAMPBELLD@APSU.BITNET>
> said:
>
> >     I was chatting with some historians yesterday and the question
> >     of the quality of the University of Arkansas came up.  It was
> >     suggested that the academic standing of that university-- and
> >     higher education generally in Clinton's state-- is quite poor,
> >     and notably worse than in neighboring states. Does anyone have
> >     any information on what impact Clinton has had on higher
> >     education?
> >     Richard Jensen, U of Illinois Chicago
>
> Well, without wishing to step on people's toes, and basing
> my comments on little more than vague impressions, I should
> think that the University of Arkansas is more or less on a
> par with Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, LSU, Kansas State, and
> Mississippi State. Missouri, Tennessee, and Mississippi are
> a step up, and the University of Texas bests the lot. (I
> might be too hard on K State and LSU.)
>
> But surely several factors come into play in determining the
> quality of an institution. First, different institutions often
> are stronger in some areas than in others. I should think, for
> instance, that the U. of Michigan has a stronger engineering
> program than either Illinois or Wisconsin. Second, the quality
> of the student body is of great importance in determining the
> quality of an institution. The pool of in-state students
> that Michigan, Illinois, and, for that matter, Chicago Circle
> draw from is much larger and has a higher ratio of urban-dwellers
> to rural-dwellers than does either Arkansas or South Carolina.
> Furthermore, the states of Michigan and Illinois are much richer
> and have higher literacy rates than either Arkansas or South
> Carolina. Certainly those factors affect the quality of a
> state's higher education.
>
> The quality of the faculty also influences educational quality.
> Faculty in many disciplines go where they are offered jobs,
> and are properly grateful for employ. However, faculty being
> only human, many prospective faculty prefer the East, Midwest, and
> West to the South. This is the accident of geography. Chicago
> Circle, for instance, has a distinguished History faculty, but,
> with respect, I suspect that wanting to live in Chicago is a
> powerful explanatory factor.
>
> I bet that governors don't have as great explanatory power as
> the other factors mentioned above.
>
> Denis Paz
> dgpaz@clemson.bitnet


Dear Denis:

All well and good.  But, then, how do you explain Clemson's
"distinguished History faculty"?

One distinguished colleague to another!

JLA
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Date:         Sun, 13 Sep 1992 01:36:00 EST
From:         YONI@BROWNCOG.BITNET
Subject:      Boston BBS'S

Are there any Bostonians out there who might know about some Boston BBS's? An
associate of mine who lives in the greater boston area is searching for some
BBS's that he can log onto. Thanks.
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 13:50:05 METDST
From:         George Welling <welling@LET.RUG.NL>
Subject:      Re: NATIONALLY TELEVISED ADDRESS,
              7,

>
>
> >
> > I would like to know more about this interesting posting feud between Kruchi
> > and Foss. (or is it a feud.)
>
> Hunh??? What's going on? If there is one, where was I? I don't
> think I am playing. I merely mentioned in a weak moment - filling
> in a newcomer to this list, quite some time ago - that the posting by
> Dan Foss that he (the newcomer) had objected to as being too long
> was one of Dan's shorter ones, from a historical perspective...
> the rest is, as they say, history...Dan took my comment and ran with it.
> Let that be a lesson...
>
Reading Dan's contributions is one thing, commenting on them is quite something
Sooner or later he'll single you out and get to you. I am still reading but I re
commenting anymore.

--
                =
             ___|_____               George M. Welling
            /        __|____           phone : +31 50 63 54 74
       _|__         /      /             fax : +31 50 63 49 00
      /    /_______/______/                History and Computing  HCI
     /____/    | ______|__                 depart. ALFA-INFORMATICA
 _______|______|_\  o o o |              University of Groningen
      \  o o o o o o o o  |            welling@let.rug.nl
        \                 /
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 13:28:26 CDT
From:         stan kulikowski ii <STANKULI@UWF.BITNET>
Subject:      looking for teachers of the past

  i am looking for historical descriptions of why someone became a teacher.

  if you want to tell me why you became a teacher that is fine.  i will need
to know something about your academic area and background and years in
practice of this profession.  i am interested in why you wanted to teach.

  but what i am primarily interested in finding is descriptions from previous
centuries.  i suspect i may need to access diaries or personal correspondence
of people who were teachers but i have no idea how to begin finding such
material.  how does one locate sources of specific personal information like
this?

  can any of you provide me with references to famous instructors saying
why they pursued this activity?  abelard, socrates, ...  i would prefer as
close to first-person descriptions as possible for the real oldies.
                                                                   stan

    .                  stankuli@UWF.bitnet
   ===
         close your eyes, my darling, or three of them at least
   ---                                          -- old venusian lullaby
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 20:21:11 EDT
From:         "Daniel A. Foss" <DFOSS@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject:      Those with any kinda houses shouldn't throw stones

I ain't got no kinda life, Bayla, you call me a liar, you got the documentation
from my private correspondence files landing in folks' mailboxes on a selective
basis, bye now, was notathreat.
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 00:16:00 EST
From:         YONI@BROWNCOG.BITNET
Subject:      Re: My trivial side & back pages or whatever

I see, Daniel. Thank you for the answer. I suppose the only thing for us to do
is sit back and follow the postings. It seems as if this list is about to
host a serious battle. I do hope that the list will continue to maintain
discussions of topics directly relating to History. But I guess that such
battles of credibility are part of scholarly life.
As an impartial observer, I await the coming storm.
Oh, I was wondering what the latest is on U.S Military Intervention, I believe
I posted another list of questions and ideas I thought up of that I wanted to
discuss with the list. Well, that was just a side note. But I would like to hear
the list's latest opinions on the matter.
Thanks
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:30:58 BST
From:         Christopher Currie <c.currie@CLUS1.ULCC.AC.UK>
Subject: re: Clinton Administration?

> But this might kill off Bush's chances come November:-
>
> Another headline in today's Greenville News: "Bush Admits
> Economy Lousy"
>
> Denis Paz
> dgpaz@clemson.bitnet
>

Ah, but Recovery's Just Round The Corner, Isn't It? That's what they told
*us* in April :-)

C.
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Date:         Sun, 13 Sep 1992 11:57:14 -0400
From:         Allan Adler <adler@RISC1.ACC.URI.EDU>
Subject:      sacrificing to Artemis
Comments: To: history%ubvm.bitnet@uriacc.ACC.URI.EDU

I read somewhere that the Taurides used to sacrifice shipwrecked foreigners
to Artemis. Why did they do this?

In the case of sacrificial animals, I am under the impression that they
would eat the burnt (i.e. cooked) offerings. Is there any reason to believe
that they also ate human sacrifices?

Allan Adler
adler@risc1.acc.uri.edu

P.S. Please reply to me privately since I don't subscribe to this list.
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:05:54 PDT
From:         bob pasker <bob@HALFDOME.SF.CA.US>
Subject:      secrecy in war
Comments: To: well!rutvm1.BITNET!history@uunet.UU.NET

surely the enhancements to the enigma machine that were in use here
were kept secret.

- bob
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:07:00 CST
From:         CAMPBELL-JENSEN <CAMPBELLD@APSU.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The advent of "technological secrecy"

    The Norden bombsight was the super-secret Air Force weapon on
    ww2. It (supposedly) made the long-range heavy bomber (B-17)
    into a war-winning weapon.  The Norden company in New York City
    had an employment policy that strongly discriminated against
    Jews and Italians.  It favored Nordics.  One of them was a Nazi
    sympathizer who gave a complete set of blueprints to the German
    embassy circa 1937.  The Luftwaffe built a replication of the
    bombsight, but decided not to use it (the Luftwaffe failed to
    develop a strategic bombing strategy). It is unclear whether the
    Luftwaffe used its knowledge of the optics to develop tactics to
    neutralize the bombsight. (Late in the war it built dummy
    factories, for example.)  The Nazis apparently did not get good
    information on later improvements in the bombsight.
    Richard Jensen
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:54:10 +1000
From:         Marion Diamond <med@LINGUA.CLTR.UQ.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: The advent of "technological secrecy"
Comments: To: HISTORY%RUTVM1.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU

Allan,
These are all guesses, since none of this is in my area, but I can think
ofat least 4 much earlier attempts at technological secrecy:

1. the use of 'Greek fire' by the Byzantines - the secret was so
successfully kept, that now nobody knows what it was, though the
guess is some kind of methane or petroleum-based inflammatory device;

2. some of Leonardo da Vinci's designs - not the flying machins, but
some of his catapults and 'tanks' were, I think, produced in secresy -
for the Florentine government, I suppose

3. the various 18C chronometers designed for the British navy, and
used, for instance,by Captain James Cook, were strategically important
because they allowed sailors to calculate longitude accurately - and
were certainly kept secret from the French

4. who returned the compliment during the Napoleonic wars when they
supported an American (whose name escapes me - but I'm a mere
Australian) working on a prototype submarin.e.

I'm sure there are many more examples - in fact, the 20C scientific
(as opposed to military) ethic of open access to research and the
publication of results is new: Roger Bacon or Newton would have thought
this a very altruistic concept.

Marion Diamond
med@lingua.cltr.uq.oz.au
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 21:16:39 EDT
From:         "Daniel A. Foss" <DFOSS@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject:      Re: World's oldest tourist trap in North America?

This would all depend very greatly on what you meant by City, would it not? If
you wanted to badly enough, you could always call Catal Huyuk, Jericho, Lerna
each of them a City. Catal Huyuk cerainly had the outer walls of couses joined
together to make for a City Wall if you wanted badly enough to call it a City.

SO. It had been my understanding that the place in the Valley of Oaxaca they
found the "danzante" reliefs, which actually show the death agonies of slain or
sacrificed enemy chiefs/mighty-warriors, was, you know, *it*. But then it went
through the usual Phases, with proedominance shifting from one habitation site
to another. Anyone recall the name of the place?

Daniel A. Foss
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From: diviney@milton.u.washington.edu (Pat Diviney)
Subject: Re:      Subversion, special case of filibustering
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 02:11:57 GMT

Let us not forget the help of Nixon, Kissinger, et al; which made possible
the overthrow of the Allende government in Chile.

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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 12:28:22 -0500
From:         Bob Rogers <rogers@SOL.INSTRUMENTAL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Oldest City in North America?
Comments: To: HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu

Since the original poster narrowed the question to cities still in
existence, I think Taos Pueblo might qualify.  As a side note, Cahokia
(Illinois), had - in the 13th century - a population greate than
Paris.
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 08:59:49 METDST
From:         George Welling <welling@LET.RUG.NL>
Subject:      Re: Bologna AHC conference
              Se

>
>
> >
> >
> > I have been keeping quiet for a while, because I was on the anual conference
>
> Anual, George? As Sir W. Churchill is supposed to have said of Sir Clive
> Bossom, 'Humph. Neither one thing nor the other'.
>
> Thanks for the rest of the post, which I have saved.
>
> Christopher
>
>
I guess my shrink could do something with it, but I am afraid it was just one
of my typo's.

--
                =
             ___|_____               George M. Welling
            /        __|____           phone : +31 50 63 54 74
       _|__         /      /             fax : +31 50 63 49 00
      /    /_______/______/                History and Computing  HCI
     /____/    | ______|__                 depart. ALFA-INFORMATICA
 _______|______|_\  o o o |              University of Groningen
      \  o o o o o o o o  |            welling@let.rug.nl
        \                 /
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 09:38:00 CST
From:         NFPKP2@AUDUCVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Civil War Lists

Does anyone know of a history list devoted to the American Civil War?  I would s
   ure like to subscribe. their a
Bob Saunders
Auburn University
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:57:53 EDT
From:         Ken Koester <MAINT2@ERS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The advent of "technological secrecy"

On Thu, 10 Sep 1992 06:08:40 EDT Allan Needell said:
>
>My question is, how valid is the assertion that "technological secrecy" on a
>large scale was new to the technologies of World War II. I could list
>technologies developed in secret during earlier wars WW I; chemical weapons
>come first to mind, but was that secrecy on such a smaller scale as to make it
>qualitatively different than the secrecy imposed on technological advances
>after 1930? That is what my speaker is claiming.
>
>Comments?
>
Wouldn't British attempts to limit "technological exports," including the
technological experts themselves!, during Colonial and early 19th century days
count?  Emmigration laws were pretty draconian, if memory serves.
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