HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: baron@cattell.psych.upenn.edu (Jonathan Baron)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Subject: brief replies on free trade
Date: 3 Oct 92 19:21:45 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

I understand from extensive recent postings here that both NAFTA
and GATT will have bad effects (as I acknowledged in my own
recent posting).  The question is whether the good effects
outweigh the bad (or whether it is worth the risk of failure to
try to renegotiate, in the case of NAFTA).  Part of this question
concerns the possible mechanism by which rich countries can help
poor countries.  Mexico is strongly for NAFTA because the
government believes that more trade will help economic
development, which in the long run will mean less poverty.  This
is almost a prerequisite to environmental reform in Mexico.  So
my question to the critics is, "How else do you propose,
REALISTICALLY, that rich nations (like the U.S.) help poor
nations (like Mexico) develop?"

A second point concerns some of the environmental laws that are
under challenge, such as the Delaney clause, which mandates zero
cancer risk from certain products.  I, for one, would love to see
this sort of law disappear.  If followed (which it isn't), it
would impose tremendous costs for tiny reductions in risk from
some artificially produced chemicals, while much greater risks
from other artificial chemicals or from natural sources (such as
radon) go untreated because of lack of available funds.  [This is
aside from the difficulty of detecting carcinogenicity from the
usual methods (mostly animal tests).  Bruce Ames and others have
pointed out that as many natural chemicals (constituents of
broccoli, for example) fail these tests as artificial chemicals.]

Likewise, the risk of "bad beef" is probably tiny compared to the
risk of "good beef" in terms of heart disease, colon cancer,
etc., not to mention the risk to the animals involved.

In sum, if these sorts of things are the SUBSTANTIVE examples of
how trade laws can hurt, I'm not impressed.  (I AM impressed, I
admit, by Mexico's successful challenge of the law about tuna.)

Again, I ask for an overall comparison of the good effects and
bad effects.  I see the opponents of free trade as simply
focusing on one side, without trying to balance one against the
other.  And I see the good effects as potentially very great.
One estimate held that the proposed GATT treaty would do roughly
as much good for the poor countries as the entire foreign aid
budget of the world.

Jon Baron (baron@cattell.psych.upenn.edu)

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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 12:43:20 PDT
Reply-To:     Bill Arnett <USERARNT@UBCMTSA.BITNET>
From:         Bill Arnett <USERARNT@UBCMTSA.BITNET>
Subject:      re: Article: Pursuing Truth about Recycled Paper

Response to Tracy Logan's post about
Ed Ayers' "Whitewash: Pursuing the Truth about Paper"

> One of Ayers' conclusions I thought was not entirely legitimate:
> after defining "post consumer" as "paper that has actually been
> used and discarded by final consumers such as magazine readers
> and office workers," Ayers states that "only the recycling of
> post-consumer waste reduces the cutting of trees or flow to
> landfills."
>
> I believe he overlooks a standard (=insane) practice in our
> normal (=insane) world, namely that most publishers print at
> least twice as many newsstand copies of a magazine as will sell.
> When returned at end of week or month, these magazines are not
> post-consumer, ...
> I contend that in this crazy world, paper utilizing such waste is
> just as tree-saving as paper made from magazines read and tossed.

I agree that it is important to recycle this kind of pre-consumer
waste, but several thoughts occur....

-  Most pre-consumer waste has always been recycled (because it
   was convenient and cost effective).  Did that include these
   returned magazines?  Did it include unshipped magazines?

-  Ayers may have been generalizing a bit too much.  Perhaps his
   statement should have been rephrased "only the recycling of
   waste that wasn't traditionally recycled will reduce the
   cutting of trees or flow to landfills."  But in general
   terms (in my understanding) these are *essentially* the
   same thing.  Tracy may have hit upon an exception.
   There are probably others.

-  As a consumer reading "50% recycled, 10% post-consumer" on
   a package of paper I *cannot* conclude that the 40%
   pre-consumer recycling has made *any* contribution to
   reducing tree consumption.  I *can* conclude that the 10%
   post-consumer portion has had a positive impact.  I think
   this is what Ayers was trying to point out.

-  Only the post-consumer portion has served a *useful* life.
   All the pre-consumer stuff (whether it made it out of the
   mill or not) is still just waste produced by the paper-
   making and printing stages.

-  Ayers mantioned this in one of the quotes, but I'll
   reiterate it:  It is *easy* for a paper company to increase
   the percentage of pre-consumer recycled fibre *without*
   having a positive effect on reducing consumption.  They
   can simply divert all their traditionally recycled pre-
   consumer waste into a single end product (so that the
   other products contain *no* recycled material), or they
   can deliberately generate more waste so that they can
   throw it back in and call it recycled.

Bill.

PS: Tracy, don't take this post as criticism.  You just
gave me an oportunity to send something I was discussing
only moments before reading your post.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 22:31:11 -0900
Reply-To:     "ACAD1A::JNJMC" <JNJMC@ALASKA.BITNET>
From:         Jan Marie Conitz <JNJMC@ALASKA.BITNET>
Subject:      Solid Waste Disposal

I've read of "natural"sewage treatment systems where sewage
and waste water flow slowly though a series of large ponds,
which contain aquatic plants that thrive on the extra nutrients.
At the end of the line, the system can even support fish.
I'm sorry I can't give a reference.  Though not my only
source, I did see a good summary of such a project in a
jr. high science "weekly reader" type publication.
I'm also wondering if there are any marine algae that would
perform purification services in the salt-water environment.
Some brown algae are known to actively take up heavy metals.
And then there are the "oil-eating" bacteria.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:46:05 EDT
Reply-To:     "100012.1163@compuserve.com (Rainer Stumpe)"
              <100012.1163@COMPUSERVE.COM>
From:         "100012.1163@compuserve.com (Rainer Stumpe)"
              <100012.1163@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Reply to "Where's the solar energy?"

To:   >internet:biosph-l@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu

Dear Ms. DeRubertis,
Our civilization is based on electrical power. Thatos the
problem with solar energy. The present technology to convert
solar energy to electrical energy is based on silicon
photovoltaic cells. Although there has been much progress in
the yield of electricity, it is easy to calculate that
producing silicon based photovoltaic cells by advanced
electrolytic methods in a scale to substitute contemporary
power plants would take hundreds of years and consume our
fossil fuel resources.

There is much research going on. But it is not yet at a stage
for industrial application. If you are interested in ongoing
research, the following books have been published by Springer-
Verlag. For more information, please send me a message.

Pleskov, Yuri V.: Solar Energy Conversion - A
Photoelectrochemical Approach (Transl. from the Russian by
Dang, Prem K.) 1990.

Becker, Manfred; Funken, Karl-Heinz; Schneider, Gernot (Ed.):
Solar Thermal Energy Utilization. German Studies on Technology
and Applications.

Norton, Brian: Solar Energy Thermal Technology 1992.

Announcements for new books published by Springer-Verlag and
many useful routines are available for free download from
Springer-Verlagos mail server. Simply send the commands HELP
and DIRALL in the body of your message to:
     SVSERV@DHDSPRI6.BITNET

Rainer Stumpe
internet:100012.1163@compuserve.com
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X-Envelope-to: BIOSPH-L@UBVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"BIOSPH-L@UBVM"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:51:00 BSC
Reply-To:     gomide@BRFAPQ.BITNET
Comments:     @FAPQ.FAPESP.BR - @FAPQ%FPSP.HEPNET - @BRFAPQ.BITNET - .BR gateway
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was GOMIDE@BRFAPQ
From:         gomide@FPSP.FAPESP.BR
Subject:      Apologies re: InterMeta course

PLEASE DO NOT SEND MONEY !
It is with regret that I perform this task. Dr. Gelson V. Gomes. a
professor of the University of Parana, Brazil, has exceeded this
privileges and announced a eletronic course:

> ____________________________________________________________
>        Mastering INTERNET Tools, Seizing METANET Power -
>                      The InterMeta Course
> ____________________________________________________________

I must apologize for this flagrant breach of network etiquette. Please
be aware that Dr. Gelson had no right to do so, since this is against
the rules of our ANSP network, and also against the Bitnet rules.
PLEASE DO NOT SEND MONEY!
I will not discuss what his motivations were. But his account has been
revoked, and there will be no such course through my network.

Please write by normal mail, to:
-> Gelson V. Gomes
-> 358, R. Alvaro Andrade - ap.1201
-> Curitiba PR BRAZIL 80610-240
to get more information on his objectives. He may want to give the
course by normal mail.  :-)

With regards,
--
Alberto Courrege Gomide | Fundacao de Amparo `a Pesquisa - (11)831-3357
Software Supervisor     | Rua Pio XI, 1500 - CEP 05468-901 - Sao Paulo
<gomide@fapq.fapesp.br> | FAX (11)261-4167 Telex (11)82014 - Brazil
(ACG8) - .BR Domain Technical Contact. |
--
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Original_To:  BITNET%"biosph-l@ubvm"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 13:02:00 CDT
Reply-To:     JM01@SWTEXAS.BITNET
From:         JM01@SWTEXAS.BITNET
Subject:      green economy

> From: EDU%"hudson@MAIL.BUCKNELL.EDU" 29-SEP-1992 11:13:54.39
> To:   "Joseph M. Meyer" <JM01@SWTNYSSA.BITNET>
> Subj: What Does Green Mean to Business?
> X-To:         Multiple recipients of list BIOSPH-L
>               <BIOSPH-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>
>
> Greening of the corporation sounds like a wonderful idea, but what does
> this entail? Are corporations really making a profound effect on preserving
> the environment? Does everyone benefit when companies are forced to uphold
> strict environmental standards at the expense of the economy?
> The basic intentions that have created this concept of "Greening of the
> corporation" is relatively good one, but several other factors must be
> taken into account.
> What is better a sustainable world for future generations at the expense of
> the present population? This concept has made it difficult for small
> companies to convert to conduct business in this fashion. Often the
> environmental requirements make it too hard to continue operating, thus
> businesses close and jobs are lost. Are the costs outweighing the benefits?
> I wonder.
> please respond......janine

Putting on my philosophy hat for the sake of argument, I think your question is
related to social responsibility and the value society puts on things:  Are the
businesses, and jobs they provide, more important than the planet on which they
are established?  I would argue that companies unable to live by environmental
regulations should not be operating anyway.  We'll all be 6-feet underground in
100 years anyway, but our descendants will have to live here.  So, should the
short-term profitability of businesses outweigh the long-term effects of
pollution on the liveability of a planet?  Another question might be whether
the carcinogenic pollutants that are released by some companies result in more
cancer deaths than the economic benefits offset.  I think the carcinogenic
effect of cigarettes is worse economically, and in human terms, than the hurt
to North Carolina farmers caused by cutting tobacco subsidies.  The same type
of argument might be applied to industrial polluters--but, since the effects
of these polluters are less obvious, it may never happen.

Joe Meyer
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 12:14:04 -0400
Reply-To:     lwhite@MAIL.BUCKNELL.EDU
From:         lwhite@MAIL.BUCKNELL.EDU
Subject:      Environmental President

        I am a member of a group of students at Bucknell University working
on a project about Bush and Clinton--who is more the environmental
president and why.  If anyone has any comments,facts, etc., please let me
know!
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X-Original-To:  biosph-l@ubvm, 3_SWOOD
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 17:30:00 EDT
Reply-To:     3_SWOOD@FAIR1.BITNET
From:         3_SWOOD@FAIR1.BITNET
Subject:      World Watch Magazine

        Does anyone have any information on how to go about
subscribing to World Watch Magazine?  An address would be helpful.
I haven't been able to find it anywhere.  Thanks for any help.

                        Steven Wood - Fairfield University
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1992 11:20:11 EDT
Reply-To:     hkaplan%UDCVAX.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU
From:         hkaplan%UDCVAX.BITNET@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU
Subject:      A "Green" University?

In reading the requests for information about the greening of the corporation
and other institutions, I began to wonder about applying that concept to the
University.  What I have in mind is a University ala St. Johns or U. of Chicago
but, instead of great books, the educational program would be built around
green themes such as the environment, ecology, continuity, responsibility, etc.
Does anyone know of any such institutions or plans for same?  I would like to
limit the responother than religious or mystical organizations, not
because their ideas aren't valid or applicable, but simply in order to keep
responses focused and manageable.
                                        Howard Kaplan
                                        HKAPLAN@UDCVAX.BITNET
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From: rowland@zorba7.larc.nasa.gov (Michael W. Rowland)
Subject: Env. Satellites Shutdown Dec. 1992
Keywords: satellite, budget cuts
Reply-To: rowland@zorba7.larc.nasa.gov (Michael W. Rowland)
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA 23681  USA
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:47:38 GMT

  We at Langley Research Center received news on Thursday, October 2,
1992 that NASA intends to shutdown the following satellites in
December to save about $15M:

     NUMBUS-7

     ERBS

     NOAA-9

     NOAA-10

The following experiments will not be operational while
the satellites are shutdown:

     Stratospheric Aerosol Measurement II  (SAM II)

     Earth Radiation Budget Experiment (ERBS) (3)

     Stratospheric Aerosol and Gas Experiment II (SAGE II)

There were no plans stated to restart the satellites at a
later date.

Also UARS (Upper Atmosphere Research Satellite) may go after its
18 months are completed!

Mike Rowland

Mike Rowland, Aerosol Research Branch, MS 475
NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton VA 23681
internet: rowland@zorba7.larc.nasa.gov
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X-Envelope-to: BIOSPH-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Sun, 4 Oct 1992 11:15:00 EDT
Reply-To:     RORPAYNE@THINK2.LAKEHEADU.CA
From:         RORPAYNE@THINK2.LAKEHEADU.CA
Subject:      Free Trade: FTA & NAFTA

Theorizing aside, this view from the north side of the
American elephant sees only marginal benefits to the FTA
and almost none to NAFTA. Canadians, by and large, did NOT
support the FTA and are no more enamoured of it today.
Who benefits up here? Large corporations certainly - for
them a level playing field. Current "Progressive Conservative"
politicians, the buddies of business. Quite cosy, eh?

The down side features a quite dazzling loss of manufacturing
employment as firms end "branch plant" operations here and take
advantage of lower wage and benefit requirements in the (southern)
USA. Regional development programs come to be seen (through
US eyes) as economic subsidies rather than income and job re-
distribution efforts. Firms whine about environmental standards
and yearn for the "good old days".

The argument that free trade ought to work well in a global
economy is a pleasant one but it plainly ignores some of
the important differences between nations in social and even
economic policy. Do those differences matter? Well, they seem
to matter to quite a few Canadians. Unfortunately, the current
governing party is not among that group!

From here, it is interesting to see Americans slowly waking up
and realizing that something is happening which could very well
change things radically for many.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	R.J. Payne
	School of Outdoor Recreation, Parks and Tourism
	Lakehead University
	Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
	P7B 5E1
	807-343-8758 (voice)
	807-343-8023 (fax)
	Internet: RORPAYNE@Think2.LakeheadU.Ca
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Sun, 4 Oct 1992 12:31:29 -0400
Reply-To:     derubrts@MAIL.BUCKNELL.EDU
From:         derubrts@MAIL.BUCKNELL.EDU
Subject: Help! Where's the solar energy?

        As a student at Bucknell University researching energy
alternatives, I would like to know why solar energy is not in extensive use
today.  What economic, political, commercial and technological factors are
slowing the development of this seemingly perfect resource?


                                               Diana DeRubertis
From: baron@cattell.psych.upenn.edu (Jonathan Baron)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Subject: Re: World Watch Magazine
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:55:50 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

To subscribe, write:

Worldwatch Institute 
1776 Massachusetts Ave., NW
Washington, DC 20036 USA
phone 202-452-1999 (fax 202-296-7365)

Subscriptions are $15 for US, $30 for international airmail
(Doesn't say about Canada or Mexico).

World Watch is also published in Japanese, Italian, and Russian,
as well as English.
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Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:57:18 -0400
Reply-To:     yancy@MAIL.BUCKNELL.EDU
From:         yancy@MAIL.BUCKNELL.EDU

        Free Trade: What has brought this issue to the political arena?
What policies have made it a leading economic option when tarrifs and other
trade barriers are the norm?  It could be that the economies of North
America and most of the world have been slumping for a couple of years now,
but in the speciffic case of North America I think it could be more
political than economic.  In the mid 1980's, when Free Trade came to the
political scene, there were some disagreements between the U.S. and Canada.
 The main problems were Acid Rain caused by sulfur and nitogen oxides
produced by U.S. industry, and the dispute over the Atlantic and Pacific
fisheries.  These disputes and others with one of the U.S.'s most important
allies and trading partners may have brought Free Trade to the negotiating
table to once again join the two politically in both the North American and
world arenas. Reply.


%%% overflow headers %%%
To: young@bucknell.edu, amrhein@bucknell.edu, babij@bucknell.edu,
        bardeen@bucknell.edu, bobeczko@bucknell.edu, bongirni@bucknell.edu,
        booher@bucknell.edu, debndct.s@bucknell.edu, derubrts@bucknell.edu,
        mdunn@bucknell.edu, fedele@bucknell.edu, finnican@bucknell.edu,
        gussett@bucknell.edu, helwig@bucknell.edu, mhender@buckn.ell.edu,
        hopkins@bucknell.edu, hudson@bucknell.edu, keller@bucknell.edu,
        kochman@bucknell.edu, lenci@bucknell.edu, jmarshll@bucknell.edu,
        nmason@bucknell.edu, m.assaro@bucknell.edu, mcvey@bucknell.edu,
        kparker@bucknell.edu, schaeffr@bucknel.l.edu, jesmith@bucknell.edu,
        jsmolko@bucknell.edu, lwhite@bucknell.edu, wolowski@bucknell.edu,
        yancy@bucknell.edu, pelliott@bucknell.edu, tackneyr@bucknell.edu,
        biosph-l@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu
%%% end overflow headers %%%
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 03:40:55 +0200
Reply-To:     gussett@MAIL.BUCKNELL.EDU
From:         gussett@MAIL.BUCKNELL.EDU

Help! Help! Please send any information on the rainforest catastrophe in
Laos.  Is it linked to Debt for Nature Swaps or IMF policies?  Any
information would be most appreciated.  Thanks!
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Sun, 4 Oct 1992 12:31:32 -0400
Reply-To:     derubrts@MAIL.BUCKNELL.EDU
From:         derubrts@MAIL.BUCKNELL.EDU
Subject: Help! Where's the soloar energy?

        As a student at Bucknell University researching energy
alternatives, I would like to know why solar energy is not in extensive use
today.  What economic, political, commercial and technological factors are
slowing the development of this seemingly perfect resource?

                                                    Diana DeRubertis
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1992 11:01:40 -0400
Reply-To:     Dave Saunders <inter01@WORLDLINK.COM>
From:         Dave Saunders <inter01@WORLDLINK.COM>
Subject:      Re: Greening of the Corporation

>         I am a member of a group of students at Bucknell University working
> on a project dealing with the greening of the corporation in America. If
> you have any opinions, information, or ideas about this topic, let me know!

Proper education is an absolute must. It's also nifty when you can cost-
justify recycling.

For example: Instead of using paper coffee filters, you can buy one of those
nifty gold mesh filters that have a indefinite reuse life. You acheive two
results here...One, you eliminate the waste created by paper filters (not to
mention the nasty things that the paper bleachings create) and two, the
reusable filter is a one time cost!

Although we can always wish that the advantages of a recycling and reusing
program should speak for themselves, take advantage of the American
propensity to see $ value first. Eventaully, the other advantages work
themselves in...

Dave Saunders
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Sun, 4 Oct 1992 13:04:06 -0400
Reply-To:     Dave Saunders <inter01@WORLDLINK.COM>
From:         Dave Saunders <inter01@WORLDLINK.COM>
Subject: Re: Help! Where's the solar energy?

>         As a student at Bucknell University researching energy
> alternatives, I would like to know why solar energy is not in extensive use
> today.  What economic, political, commercial and technological factors are
> slowing the development of this seemingly perfect resource?

I guess part of that question should also be...

-Do current technologies make Solar Energy usefull enough to outweigh the
costs of installation?
-What are the costs of installation for a private residance?
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