From: hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: RACISM
Date: 23 Nov 92 16:52:12 GMT
Reply-To: hira@cme.nist.gov
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology

In article <1992Nov19.010843.6830@wuecl.wustl.edu>, mps1@cec1.wustl.edu (Mihir Pramod Shah) writes:
|> From: mps1@cec1.wustl.edu (Mihir Pramod Shah)

|> Ron,
|> 	Sorry about the "liberal trap" comment.  I should have said "Radical
|> Liberal".  From what I have seen, you seem to be a pragmatic liberal.  There
|> is a big difference between being a Far-L Wing liberal like Sister Souljah
|> and being a liberal with reasonable views.  Most liberals are decent people.
|> And yes, there are many white liberals.  But there is that small fringe group,
|> including radical white liberals, who believe minorities are the eternal
|> victim of racism and all whites should feel guilty for it.  VERY FEW people
|> think this way, but they are there.  Often the fringe groups exert more 
|> pressure than their numbers suggest.  The Far-Right conservative wing is
|> another example.

No offense taken. Part of the reason for free speach is to provide 
a forum where everyone has an opportunity to speak out. There is 
extremism on both sides of the spectrum, but some of this is healthy.
It allows the rest of us to take in other angles of arguments and 
filter out what we consider 'radical', and what we consider rational.
The media invariably reports the extremes, because it sells well. 
Look at someone like Al Sharpton in NYC. One might also look at
Malcolm X and the message that he was able to and is still able to
bring to young black men. Most people considered X a radical and 
extremist in his day, but I think that he provided healthy dialogue
that many more 'moderate' civil rights leaders could not provide.

|>      About the rest of the world.  I guess I was thinking on a more diplomatic
|> plane, rather then a grass-roots level.  Your example of Yugoslavia was a very
|> good arguement against me.  I should have revised my comment.  Let's just
|> say that SOME parts of the world are VERY SLOWLY becoming enlightened about
|> racial and cultural tolerance.  It is my opinion that American society, while
|> having its racist sides, provides much hope in terms of racial concilliation
|> and harmony.  It is not a prime example, but it is the only major example.

Unfortunately, I think that the world is becoming more and more nationalistic.
The EC is really sputtering before it can even get going. Eastern Europe
& the former USSR is in a shambles. There are tribal wars in Somalia, South
Africa, and much of Africa. There are problems in India, with Sikh and 
Tamil separatists. I view this 'new' world order with much trepidation.
Racial tensions in the US are not being addressed. I could go on & on...

|> 	About whites and racism. Here is where I must disagree.  It is ALL of
|> our responsiblity to fight racism.  The white race is not the ones who have
|> to bear the burden.  The ball is not totally "in their court".  The reason I
|> say this is that, like any other race, every white person has different
|> opinions.  There are white liberals, white moderates, and white conservatives.
|> I myself am an Asian-American moderate (I hate to hyphenate, but have to in
|> this case for clarification).  I voted for Bill Clinton.  Much of what I like
|> about him is his bridge-building attitude on race.  He is not a radical
|> left-wing goon who believes in a white race guilt-trip.  Nor is he a radical
|> right-wing goon who believes it's all blacks or other races own responsibility
|> and racism doesn't exist, except in the form of so-called "reverse
|> discrimination."

I'd tend to agree with you, but I would like to point out that the white
male still dominates upper management in virtually all large companies,
and politics. Therein lies the power for change, if they choose to. I 
believe like you that it is a two way street, and that we need to 
educate others about ourselves. IAs whose friends consist almost 
exclusively of other IAs is not going to go a long way in finding common
ground with the two major cultures in America.

|> 	My own assessment of racism is this:  Most racism in this country
|> comes from "white sources".  Nevertheless, there is a growing and valid concern
|> over how the minorities are reacting.  I don't agree with the extreme "PC"
|> attitude that the whites alone must clean up their t.  If we are to succeed in
|> combatting racism, then people of ALL races must work TOGETHER.  There many
|> fine examples of whites and minorities who have pragmatically liberal to
|> pragmatically conservative views.  This also includes moderates and centrists.
|> Listen to Bill Clinton, Tony Brown, Clarence Page, Jack Kemp, Douglas Wilder,
|> William Weld, John Danforth.  These are proment people who have reasonable
|> and decent views.  They are not extremists at either end.  I keep saying the
|> same thing:  The think I hate most is not liberals or conservatives, but
|> EXTREMISM IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM, whether they be Ice Cube or David Duke.

Why does etremism frighten you so? Do you think that after listening to
these extremists, that regular people will somehow be converted over to
their gospel? It worked for Hitler, but is it possible in today's society?

Ron