HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: PGP - Legal?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:55:02 GMT

In article <9301051125.AA51399@chaos.intercon.com> amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker) writes:
>David, perhaps you misunderstand what I mean by "natural" superiority; I am 
>saying that any such superiority is a matter of circumstance, not something 
>magic about the USA...
>
If by circumstance you mean such things as a national decision to create
the NSA and spend a lot of money on it, I'd agree. Yet there's no reason
to believe this circumstance will not continue.

If by circumstance you mean the externals of non-governmental
support--academic department funding, tenure tracks, etc. I don't have
enough information to comment.

I will say that a few hackers copying someone else's program or
algorithm, or refining it don't a cryptographic dominance make. If it
did we wouldn't be having all those discussions about 'has the NSA
broken thus and so?', which sound to my ears like some of the fears of
developing countries in the face of the dominance of the
Industrialized ones in economic matters.

One caveat with respect to the U.K. GCHQ has made major contributions
and breakthroughs, and thus the (heretofore?) American dominance
might more accurately be described as Anglo-American dominance.

Finally, if by "natural" superiority you meant something nationally
inherent, I don't follow you because I don't know of anyone who
ever made THAT claim.

David


-- 
David Sternlight
RIPEM Public Key on server  --  Consider it an envelope for your e-mail

Newsgroups: sci.crypt
From: Owen.Lewis@purplet.demon.co.uk (Owen Lewis)
Subject: Re: DES (Was: Re: 800MHz
Organization: FidoNet node 2:252/305 - The Purple Tentacle, Reading
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:24:00 +0000

 CB> In article <1444.204.uupcb@ssr.com> jani.patokallio%acc1bbs@ssr.com
 CB> (Jani Patokallio)  writes:
 
 CB> Gripe #1:
 CB> The US is not part of the "first world".

 CB> The ordering is:

 CB> "Old World"  i.e. - Europe
 CB> "New World"  i.e. - the Americas, and generally NORTH America
 CB> "Third World" which refers to "the rest", generally dealing with
 CB> poorer/newer countries in some combination of Africa, Asia, and
 CB> sometimes South America.

 CB> North America is most certainly NOT in the "first world".
 
 Your political geographic education has been different to mine.
        1st world = 'Free' and developed nations, mainly of N.America and 
        Western Europe . 
        2nd world = 'Communist Bloc' countries.
        3rd world = 'Non=aligned' (and mainly developing) nations.

 However, since the recent disappearance of the communist bloc, your 
 categorization may be more current. 
 
For the rest of your post, I think Steve Bellovin and Chris Browne have  
disposed of the matter sufficiently.


Owen Lewis


___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: PGP - Legal?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 03:02:28 GMT


Amanda Walker writes that the assumption that the U.S. has natural superiority
in cryptography is unwarranted.

My impression is that the key modern breakthroughs are in public
key crypto systems, including RSA, and that those were invented
mostly by Americans (not sure if Shamir is Israeli or American).
My impression is that the non-U.S. developments are essentially
derivative, elaboration, etc.

This is not an argument but a request for information. Am I mistaken?

David
-- 
David Sternlight
RIPEM Public Key on server  --  Consider it an envelope for your e-mail

Newsgroups: sci.crypt
From: Owen.Lewis@purplet.demon.co.uk (Owen Lewis)
Subject: Re: RSAREF and RIPEM
Organization: FidoNet node 2:252/305 - The Purple Tentacle, Reading
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:24:00 +0000

 -=> Quoting David Sternlight to All <=-

 DS> We next come to the point of whether the act is a violation of the
 DS> national laws in the country where the downloader is. From what
 DS> responses I've seen so far to that inquiry, it probably is in France,
 DS> Germany, maybe Italy, Canada, and the U.K., not the Netherlands, and
 DS> not Finland.  I'd like more hard information on this point, though,
 DS> from those who can quote the national laws directly.

 David, where do you get your information. As I already told you, I 
 believe the  UK has no law that specifically deals with this issue. I 
 also told you that I would ask the advice of a legal group, some of 
 whom have expert legal knowledge in the field. My first response appears 
 to have been correct.

 As of 1st January 1993, there are no longer export/import restrictions
 between member states of the EC. Therefore, the movement of PGP NL/UK,
 NL/IT, NL/GE, NL/FR (or any of the 16^2 combinations possible) is no 
 longer any concern of national member states. National regulations 
 regarding the use of PGP or other strong cryptology may still exist. 
 For the UK, there is no bar to its use of which I am aware (and I have 
 looked).
 
 In simple terms then, any of the intra-EC uploads/downloads of PGP to 
 which you alluded create no offence. Canada mustspeak for itself.

 Owen Lewis


___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11

Xref: sparky sci.crypt:6538 alt.security.ripem:70
From: mjr@TIS.COM (Marcus J Ranum)
Newsgroups: sci.crypt,alt.security.ripem
Subject: KH-11 pictures -
Date: 8 Jan 93 16:44:19 GMT
Reply-To: mjr@TIS.COM
Followup-To: sci.crypt
Organization: Trusted Information Systems, Inc.

>[...] the reason pictures of that quality
>were published is that one of the "secrets" in this area is just how
>high the resolution of reconnaisance satellites is. Every so often
>we read an episodic speculation ("able to read a license plate in
>a parking lot") in Aviation Week or elsewhere. By publishing the
>pictures in as high quality as possible, The Times was answering
>the question by implication, and cleverly enough that the Official
>Secrets Act folks didn't twig that that's part of what they were doing.

	Those pictures were from a KH-11. KH-11's are presumably
quite obsolete. We're talking a matter of years since those pictures
were published. If you extrapolate a little bit, based on the kinds
of advances in commercial electronic imaging that we've been seeing,
it's quite possible that far, far higher resolution pictures are
possible. That doesn't address the question of whether or not you
would *want* them. The pictures of the Kirov were pretty damn good
and an intelligence analyst could get a lot of information at that
resolution. I'm not sure what being able to read license plates
would buy you. In military terms, I guess you'd want to be able
to read unit flashes off of troops' collars and tank turrets, but
other than that ultra-high resolution just sells disk drives.

mjr.
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
From: cbarkley@alex (The DarkMage)
Subject: Public key for Mac?
Reply-To: cbarkley@tusol.cs.trinity.edu
Organization: Computer Science, Trinity University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 09:11:29 GMT

Does anyone know of a public key encryption system available for the
Macintosh?  If not, can someone tell me what would be involved effort
and money-wise in getting a license to write/use one.  Since it would
be for domestic use only, there should be no problems with the law.
However, I am not sure what is involved in the patent on the algorithms
themselves.

If anyone can help out, please mail to me directly and let me know.
Thanks a bundle in advance!

-- 
Christopher Barkley                                       The DarkMage
cbarkley@tusol.cs.trinity.edu               Reality is a State of Mind
From: anon.491@pax.tpa.com.au
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Subject: Re: FAQ/good resource
Date: 13 Jan 1993 06:33:08 +1030
Organization: PAX - Public Access Unix (Adelaide,South Australia) - Anonymous Service
Reply-To: anon.491@pax.tpa.com.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: flash.pax.tpa.com.au


In article <cf681-110193182815@714-725-3170.nts.uci.edu> you write:
-In article <1993Jan11.210957.8578@linus.mitre.org>, hal@gateway.mitre.org
-(Hal Feinstein) wrote:
-> 
-> 
-> A good introductory book on cryptograhy is NIST special publication 800-2
-> called Public-Key Cryptograhy" by James Nechvatal  April 1991
-
-> The text is 162 pages long and is not an in-depth examination of these
-> topics but a good introduction. Just right for the frequenctly asked
-> beginner questions.
-
-This sounds very interesting, and being a beginner, it sounds like just
-what I am looking for. However, how do I go about getting a copy? A phone
-or mail address would be nice. Thanx for recommending it.
-Brian

anonymous ftp from wimsey.bc.ca

grab crypt.txt.Z from the crypto directory.

alternatively send me mail and I'll email it to you.


--
** Anonymity & Privacy by PAX - Public Access Unix (Adelaide,South Australia) **

anon.admin@pax.tpa.com.au (a human)   anon.info@pax.tpa.com.au    (for help)
anon.ping@pax.tpa.com.au  (get alias) anon.key@pax.tpa.com.au     (register key)
anon.###@pax.tpa.com.au   (reply)     anon.post.grp@pax.tpa.com.au (post to grp)
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For dialup Unix access phone +61-8-235-9010 - online registration.
Newsgroups: sci.crypt,alt.society.civil-liberty
From: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Vesselin Bontchev)
Subject: Re: Question from someone who's new to all this
Reply-To: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de
Organization: Virus Test Center, University of Hamburg
Date:  4 Jan 93 14:49:39 GMT

positron@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Jonathan Haas) writes:

> How can someone (PKP) patent a mathematical algorithm?

Well, they do not have patented the mathematical algorithm. They have
pathented the usage of certain mathematical operation to implement a
communication system. That is, anybody is free to use modular
arithmetic in general, but usage of modular arithmetic for encrypted
and/or authenticated communication is patented.

> Has this patent yet been challenged in court? It seems

Nope. RSA/PKP has filed a suit once or twice, but that matter was
always settled outside the court.

> to me that it would be like trying to patent the Pythagorean
> Theorem.

You are free to patent anything, if you succeed to convince the patent
office experts that this is something new.

Regards,
Vesselin
-- 
Vesselin Vladimirov Bontchev          Virus Test Center, University of Hamburg
Tel.:+49-40-54715-224, Fax: +49-40-54715-226      Fachbereich Informatik - AGN
< PGP 2.1 public key available on request. > Vogt-Koelln-Strasse 30, rm. 107 C
e-mail: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de    D-2000 Hamburg 54, Germany
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
From: Markowitz@DOCKMASTER.NCSC.MIL
Subject: RE: How fast is DES?
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:19:00 GMT

Holger Muenx asked:

>>Is it possible for a software solution to reach an encryption rate
>>of about 100kB/sec (read 100 * 1024 Byte not 100 * 1024 Bit per
second) >>on a typical PC (say, Intel 386DX 33MHz)?

Our fastest implementation runs at 96KB/sec.  on such a beast (386/33).
Close enough?

---------- dockmaster.ncsc.mil
  Information Security Corp.        708 405-0500, fax: 708 405-0506
  1141 Lake Cook Rd., Suite D       MCI:  363-1959
  Deerfield, IL  60302              CIS: 76206,2617


Newsgroups: sci.crypt
From: s0rah@exnet.co.uk (R A Hollands)
Subject: Re: RSA
Organization: ExNet Systems Ltd Public Access News, London, UK
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 09:40:06 GMT

In article <qZ1XwB1w165w@west.darkside.com> sspy@west.darkside.com (mshannon) writes:
>I have been looking for a program that uses the RSA for the actual 
>message encryption, not just for the DES or IDEA key. I found an old copy 
>of a program called Iris, produced in England by a Mr. Peter Moreton at 
>Digital Crypto. Apparently this Iris does just that, but it's hard to 
>tell from the cryptic help file. Does anyone know of this program? It 
>also has the DES and several other ciphers, but they are all in one big 
>.exe file. Thanx in advance...


I have a copy in my desk.  It is available from:

    S&S International Limited
    Weylands Court
    Water Meadow
    Chesham
    Bucks
    England
    HP5 1LP

Phone: 44-494-791900  Fax: 44-494-791602

(I'm just reading this off the paperwork)

Natrually I can't post you a copy but I don't mind e-mailing the README
or whatever.

Richard

[R A Hollands s0rah@exnet.co.uk]




Newsgroups: sci.crypt
From: markh@wimsey.bc.ca (Mark C. Henderson)
Subject: Re: RIPEM and RSAREF available by anonymous ftp !!!
Organization: Wimsey Information Services
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:26:43 GMT

In article <bontchev.726339031@fbihh> bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de writes:
>markh@wimsey.bc.ca (Mark C. Henderson) writes:
>
>> The following just came in on rsaref-users mailing list.
>
>> >RSAREF is now available via anonymous FTP to 'rsa.com'. Along with
>
>Sorry, the information is not true. I just tried and the directory
>/rsaref contains only the README file and a subdirectory called
>'dist'. This directory is not readable for the anonymous user. I knew
>what to look for, but got the message that the file is not a plain
>file or something like that. Seems that it is still USA-only product.

The README file contains complete instructions for getting
the files.

Here's the relevant line of the file README in /rsaref.
> then change to the directory 'dist/930105'.

Mark
-- 
Mark Henderson
markh@wimsey.bc.ca
RIPEM key available by key server/finger/E-mail
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
From: smb@research.att.com (Steven Bellovin)
Subject: Re: DES (Was: Re: 800MHz
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 14:38:53 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <23.2B4A0D74@purplet.demon.co.uk>, Owen.Lewis@purplet.demon.co.uk (Owen Lewis) writes:
>         What first world government permits the use of DES for the protection 
>         of classified material? Does the US government? I believe not.

Definitely not in the U.S.  Bamford quotes Kahn (I think from ``Kahn on
Codes'', but that book is in my office, and I'm at home) as speculating
that there was a debate within NSA on how strong a putative DES should
be.  Certainly, they wanted to be able to crack it, but they also had
to ensure that enemies couldn't.  Remember that espionage against American
companies was (and is) a significant threat.

>  And while we are discussing theories, I believe James Bamforth, the NSA 
>  watcher, went on record some time ago with a claim that the cost to the US 
>  taxpayer for breaking each DES ciphertext is $56. Can anyone supply the  
>  assumptions from which he must have made this extrapolation?

These appear to be Diffie and Hellman's numbers.  That is, design a
brute-force cracker with a million chips at $10 apiece.  Double that for
power supplies, control circuitry, etc.  If each chip can do a trial
decryption in 1 microsecond, an average solution takes ~10 hours.
Depreciating over five years gives ~$5K per solution.  They then
noted that the cost of computation has been dropping by a factor of 10
every five years, so ten years later, the machine should cost $200,000
instead of $20,000,000, and each solution would cost $50.

I don't think that that projection has held up.  Chips of that sophistication
don't, I think, cost that little, even in such large quantities.  For a
more recent analysis of the cost of a brute-force cracker, see

@article{deswatch,
        author = {Gilles Garon and Richard Outerbridge},
        title = {{DES} {Watch}:  An Examination of the Sufficiency of the Data
                Encryption Standard for Financial Institution Information Securi
ty
                in the 1990's},
        journal = {Cryptologia},
        month = {July},
        year = {1991},
        volume = {XV},
        number = 3,
        pages = {177--193}
}

Their conclusion -- and I agree with it -- is that straight DES is
probably still useful for protecting individual sessions, but is not
suitable for encrypting keys.  Why?  An enemy can turn a cracker loose
on a single message, and -- at a considerable cost -- achieve a solution.
But that solution gives you the plaintext to a key distribution message,
which will let you recover the master key.  And after that, you're home
free.  They suggest using triple encryption for key distribution.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:49:38 EST
From: <JDG111@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Subject: VCR+ Source repost wanted

I missed the original posting of the VCR+ source,but would really like to
have it.  Would someone mind reposting it?  Thanks...

Douglas Good
Newsgroups: sci.crypt,alt.security.ripem
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Complete ITAR Available
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 02:18:05 GMT

DS> == David Sternlight <strnlght@netcom.com>

 DS> My point is that perhaps the law requires one to have the right
 DS> to publish or release in order for the language quoted to apply.
 DS> This is not yet a firm conclusion on my part, but should be read
 DS> for now as an "uh, er," until I can read further. But I didn't want
 DS> Ed's "conclusion" to stand undisputed.

Even if this is the case, that would imply (in my layman's understanding)
that export of RIPEM would be legal, which would make it possible for those
both inside and outside the US and Canada to use it, and make it a
practical cross-border public-key encryption system.

(Of course, people may prefer PGP's keyring handling; Mark will probably
merge some of the more-requested features into RIPEM at some point.)

--
Christopher K. Davis      | ``Usenet seems to run much like the Kif (or,
<ckd@eff.org>   EFF #14   |   for the TV generation, Klingon) high command.
System Administrator, EFF |   Whoever takes action and can be heard wins.''
+1 617 864 0665  [CKD1]   |   --Peter da Silva <peter@ferranti.com>
From: hagopes@works.uucp (Yinco Schmeer)
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Subject: vcr+
Date: 6 Jan 93 00:14:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: works.uuqXwB2w165w
Organization: The Works BBS - Informational Archives - Est. 1985

Russ Schnapp writes:
>>I guess the question is whether the patent number is public 
information...<<

Isn't there a listing of these? Or some way to find out? And don't they 
have to print the patent number somewhere on the prodcut?
                                        -Hagopes
Newsgroups: sci.crypt,alt.security.ripem
From: markh@wimsey.bc.ca (Mark C. Henderson)
Subject: Re: Nonlinear Amplification of Information
Organization: Wimsey Information Services
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 00:47:12 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.224335.14204@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>The rest of Cain's message consists mostly of personal attacks, and
>i won't dignify them with a reply.
>
>I will point out that he's one who seems to be deliberately violating
>RSA's patents by offering to correspond in both PGP 1.0 and 2.0
>from a site actually quite near to RSA's offices in Northern
>California, and that perhaps reveals more about Cain than anything
>I can say.
>
>David
Well just be sure to include Mr. Cain on one of the lists of 
"nasty" people you send to the president of RSADSI.  ;-)

Mark
-- 
Mark Henderson
markh@wimsey.bc.ca
RIPEM key available by key server/finger/E-mail
From: unruh@physics.ubc.ca (William Unruh)
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Subject: MD5 description and software?
Date: 12 Jan 1993 21:18:56 GMT
Organization: The University of British Columbia
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.ubc.ca
Summary: MD5 description software, where?
Keywords: MD5, text software,

where can I get a description of MD5 ( or the other MD's as well)
Thanks
Bill Urnuh
unruh@physics.ubc.ca

Newsgroups: sci.crypt
From: Owen.Lewis@purplet.demon.co.uk (Owen Lewis)
Subject: Re: My book
Organization: FidoNet node 2:252/305 - The Purple Tentacle, Reading
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:27:00 +0000

 -=> Quoting Mshannon to All <=-

 Ms> .... the book I am writing. Title is Digital Privacy, 
 
 I look forward to seeing a copy when it is published over here. Would 
 you let me know the publisher?
 
 Ms> I have concluded that using RSA keys longer than 200 digits and triple
 Ms> encrypting the DES (360 bit keyspace?) are totally unnecessary for the
 Ms> average person and small business owner. 
 
 Who - or what - is the average person? If you only need to maintain privacy
 from the casual overhearing of a neighbour, fine. If, to change the metaphor, 
 you believe that you are not only entitled to close your door but to lock it
 also, then you might hold another view.

 Owen



___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11

Newsgroups: sci.crypt
From: johnm@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.s.maddaus)
Subject: This is a Test
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:53:14 GMT

This is a test!

Newsgroups: sci.crypt,alt.security.ripem
From: rcain@netcom.com (Robert Cain)
Subject: Re: Nonlinear Amplification of Information
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 04:16:24 GMT

strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
: 
: Given that my view of that situation is thought partisan by some,
: I'd be very interested to hear Bob's view, since there can be no
: doubt he's not a fan of mine.

:-)

: 
: The reason I ask is his characterization of Jim Bidzos as reasonable
: and tough. I'd agree with that, so perhaps those who don't care for
: my views about the RSA/PGP situation might be more able to hear what
: Bob has to say about that (not knowing in advance what that might be).
: 

I appreciate the challenge and its tone but I don't know what, of that
which I have been told by either party, is in confidence.  Nor is my
memory of sufficient acuity to be up to the task of telling it like it
is.  That may sound like a cop-out but it is honest.

Peace,

Bob

-- 
Bob Cain    rcain@netcom.com   408-358-2007

    'The meek shall inherit the earth--the rest of us will move on..'
                                                    Sameer Parekh


               PGP 1.0 or 2.0 public key available on request.
From: cme@ellisun.sw.stratus.com (Carl Ellison)
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Subject: NPR spot on encryption
Date: 4 Jan 1993 19:57:54 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ellisun.sw.stratus.com


Yesterday morning, NPR did a spot on the battle over ITAR, etc., on its
Weekend Edition.  It was reasonable.  They left out the public availability
of encryption S/W overseas but the rest of the argument seemed to be
fairly represented.

For those who want transcripts, I have learned that you can order them
from NPR

	(202) 822-2323

	$10	transcript
	$12.50	tape

-- 
-- <<Disclaimer: All opinions expressed are my own, of course.>>
-- Carl Ellison						cme@sw.stratus.com
-- Stratus Computer Inc.	M3-2-BKW		TEL: (508)460-2783
-- 55 Fairbanks Boulevard ; Marlborough MA 01752-1298	FAX: (508)624-7488
Newsgroups: sci.crypt