From: azjohn@eagle.larc.nasa.gov (John Paul Phillips)
Subject: Re: Sticking with your principles
Reply-To: azjohn@eagle.larc.nasa.gov (John Paul Phillips)
Organization: NASA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 12:41:14 GMT

In article <01GIU7CV20LS8X45M0@canal.crc.uno.edu>, Dennis Baker 
<helios!canal.crc.uno.edu!DCBCS@tssi.com> writes:
> 
> Well *clearly* you can't *prove* any of your beliefs.  So why do you believe
> them?  Sounds like a pretty good story?  Pascal's Wager?  The nice guys go
> to heaven and bad guys go to hell thing?  You were brought up believing this
> stuff, so who are you to quibble?  You think you're *special*?  The Earth is
> the center of the universe?  It makes you feel all yummy inside?  It makes
> you feel benevolent, caring?  What's the scoop?
>
Well, can you conclusively *disprove* the existence of God, aka the Supreme
Being? Don't say that there is no evidence to support the concept of God, 
because that sword cuts both ways! I have had many fascinating discussions 
with agnostics and atheists in college, (Most of them are my good friends)
and we usually end up learning a lot from each other, but always no changes 
in our positions. (BTW, I have borrowed some of their arguments to play the
 Devil's  Advocate with some real sappy Christians, esp. fundementals. Some 
truly think that I'm Satan incarnate because I find loopholes in their logic.  
 <truly EVIL grin>.)

 >      Well, I must warn you... I'm studying to be a mathematican, and 
> >historically, Great mathematicans have been philosophers.
> 
> What??  <My body starts quivering; I start getting the shakes>  Noooooo,
> not a mathematician!!  Arrrrrrrggggghhhhhhh!!!!
> 
You ought see some of the reactions I've gotten from people I've met when
they inquire about my major. I get the feeling that mathematics is just this
side of leprosy. (Visions of a guy running around in rags yelling 
"mathematican! mathematican!") 8) 

> Let me get your argument straight.  You're warning me that since you're
> STUDYING to be a mathematician, and since great mathematicians HAVE BEEN
> philosophers... wait, wait, I don't get it! :)  BTW, I recommend you start
> with a good logical positivist like Kurt Godel. <evil grin>
>
Oh yes, I truly get inspired by Godel's writings! He never fails to cheer me 
up. ;)   Speaking of Godel... remember where he proved that there will be true
statements that is unprovable. I suspect that he really got cheerful when he
realized that Man will never truly know everything. What if the statement
"God exists" fit in that area of unprovable true statements? Just a thought.
 
> >(To wit. Descartes, the architect of Cartesian system, wrote "Cognito, 
ergo 
> >sum" e.g. "I think therefore I am.")  If you wish to continue this, we 
should
> >resort to e-mail and spare other readers the boredom.
> 
> Continue what?  I think therfore I am?  What the hell is that supposed to
> mean??  I mean in relation with the above?  Or are you "phrase" dropping! :)

Continue this debate. It's rather obvious that you are taking the atheist's 
side in this...  I was merely giving you an example of a 
mathematican/philosopher and an example of what he was famous for. Debates
like this have been ongoing for centuries. Only way to conclusively settle 
this kind of debate is to have God show up. (Though there'll be some people
that'll never believe in God even if He materializes and perform all kinds
of wonder in front of their noses. Those are similiar to creationists who
keeps claiming that the universe is only six thousand years old.)

Man, what does this have to do with chess??!! Oh yes, you called Fischer's
former church "those nut group" (Arrrghhh!!!! A pun that I unwittingly 
uttered!!! Fast trivia... what brand names are there on nut snack products?)
Are they nuts because they believe in God? Is that what you were saying?

------------------------
       John Paul Phillips   
             "Azjohn"         
         NASA/Langley        
azjohn@eagle.larc.nasa.gov