HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gimper@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stuart Miyasato)
Subject: Re: Rush & Ayn Rand - HELP PLEASE
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 00:12:48 GMT

In article <1992Aug29.182615.7513@leland.Stanford.EDU> jchokey@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Alexander Chokey) writes:
>In article <Hw28PB1w165w@eebbs.isis.org> ericm@eebbs.isis.org (Eric Mathurin) writes:
>>> The obvious ones are Anthem and 2112. Anthem the song is more general, but
>>> 2112 is a musical adaptation of Ayn Rand's book _Anthem_. It's a short book,
>>> any avid Rush fan should read it.
>>
>>If I recall correctly (and this may be in the FAQ), Neil says that Ayn Rand
>>did NOT influence 2112.  After writing the song, he read the book and noticed
>>many similarities and decided to mention her name/quote (which ever).
>>
>
>	Neil did say that and it is in the FAQ, but I wouldn't believe it for
>a second.  
>	
>[...]
>
>	What is more likely, IMHO, is that Neil had read Rand's _Anthem_
>a few years before he wrote "2112."  After he wrote the song, he may have
>re-read the book and realized that the song he had just written really was
>an adaption of the story in _Anthem_, something he may not have realized
>while still writing it.

I think we can erase that IMHO from your quote above, Jim.  :-)  Your
'opinion' is pretty much what happened, as Neil stated in his 12/2/91
Rockline interview.  I've transcribed the following from that interview:

Q:  What was the inspiration behind the album 2112 and if you are surprised
at how popular the album still is today?

A:  The inspiration behind it was...  It's difficult always to trace those
lines because so many things tend to coalesce, and in fact it ended up
being quite similar to a book called _Anthem_ by the writer Ayn Rand.  But
I didn't realize that while I was working on it, and then eventually as the
story came together, the parallels became obvious to me and I thought, "Oh
gee, I don't want to be a plagiarist here."  So I did give credit to her
writings in the liner notes.

[Popularity quote deleted...]

>	--  Jim C. <jchokey@leland.stanford.edu>

-- Stuart  (gimper@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: bill@verdix.com (William Spencer)
Subject: Re: Sound Production of Early Albums?
Organization: Verdix Corp.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:07:59 GMT

dan@rat.csc.calpoly.edu (Dan Delany) writes:

>According to my calculations, bill@verdix.com typed...
>> The production on later albums such as Grace is horrible.

>In what way?  It's easy to say that you don't like something.  Why don't
>you like the production on later albums?

I almost don't know because the later albums bore me so much I never listen to
them if I even own them... but they sound lifeless. Mostly it's the guitar.
Moving pictures era guitar sounds were incredible. The early stuff seems "raw"
due to the guitar also (actually, on the studio albums the distortion level is
so low it may not seem intense to some, but it still sounds more lively to me
than the newer sounds). Probably no fault of the producer -- Lifeson's choice.
Eras: Marshall, HiWatt, Gallien-Kruger.

bill
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: jchokey@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Alexander Chokey)
Subject: Re: Rush & Ayn Rand - HELP PLEASE
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 18:26:15 GMT

In article <Hw28PB1w165w@eebbs.isis.org> ericm@eebbs.isis.org (Eric Mathurin) writes:
>> The obvious ones are Anthem and 2112. Anthem the song is more general, but
>> 2112 is a musical adaptation of Ayn Rand's book _Anthem_. It's a short book,
>> any avid Rush fan should read it.
>
>If I recall correctly (and this may be in the FAQ), Neil says that Ayn Rand
>did NOT influence 2112.  After writing the song, he read the book and noticed
>many similarities and decided to mention her name/quote (which ever).
>

	Neil did say that and it is in the FAQ, but I wouldn't believe it for
a second.  
	
	The album _2112_ came out in 1976.  The album _Fly By Night_, 
which contains the song "Anthem" came out in early 1975.  This song is 
extremely Randian, containing lines such as "Live for yourself, there's no
one else more worth living for/ Begging hands and bleeding hearts always cry
out for more" and "I know they've always told you selfishness was wrong/ but
it was for me, not you, that I came to write this song."  In short, Neil had
was at least familiar with Ayn Rand's _Anthem_ back when he was writing 
songs for _Fly by Night_.
	Unless Neil had written the lyrics for "2112" before he started 
writing the lyrics for either _Fly by Night_ or _Caress of Steel_--  an 
extremely unlikely possibility-- his claim just doesn't wash.

	What is more likely, IMHO, is that Neil had read Rand's _Anthem_
a few years before he wrote "2112."  After he wrote the song, he may have
re-read the book and realized that the song he had just written really was
an adaption of the story in _Anthem_, something he may not have realized
while still writing it.
	Or, he may have been consciously and deliberately basing "2112" on
_Anthem_ as a sort of tribute to Rand, and simply was being coy when he denied
the influence of the novel on the song. 

	--  Jim C. <jchokey@leland.stanford.edu>
From: exumfs@exu.ericsson.se (Mark Steph)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Rush & Ayn Rand - HELP PLEASE
Date: 31 Aug 92 15:06:03 GMT
Reply-To: exumfs@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems

In article 24579@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu, KAMCHAR@ibm.cl.msu.edu () writes:
>     I would suggest that you check out the book "The New Left--The
>Anti-Industrial Revolution" and read the chapter "Apollo vs Dionysis," then
>listen to "Hemispheres" (the cut, althought the whole album is good).  Then ask
>yourself--who would you rather pick on this-Rand or Rush.  I'm sure you'll
>choose Rush on this matter.
>     Enjoy.
>Kamchatka Charlie          KAMCHAR@ibm.cl.msu.edu

Hold on a minute... Hemishpheres is *extremely* "Randian."  Rand's books
(and subsequent other Objectivist writers) are *full* of references to
the "Mind-Body Dichotomy."  (In fact, there is an extensive article in 
*Intro to Objectivist Epistemology*, which you recommended.)

Objectivism's conclusion is much like Rush's: Heart and mind (emotion and logic)
are inter-related and should be integrated together.

---
Mark Steph               | You don't get something for nothing
exumfs@exu.ericsson.se   | You don't get freedom for free
(yes, .se *is* in Texas) | You won't get wise with the sleep still in your eyes
PO Box 833875, MS L-05   | No matter what your dream might be
Richardson, TX 75083     |      -Neil Peart, "Something for Nothing"
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: smills@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (MuffinHead)
Subject: Re: Rush & Terry Brown
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 20:17:31 GMT

srf6200@zeus.tamu.edu   writes:

>Yes, their recent work has been rather lame.  But believe me, their older 
>works were simply copies of Led Zeppelin.  Rush simply has not been able to 
>keep up in these recent years with more progressive bands.

   Led Zeppelin?!? How can you compare Rush with a bunch of hippies? And what
constitutes "keeping up" with ANY progressive band?
Flames to /dev/nul.

Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: jchokey@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Alexander Chokey)
Subject: Re: Jacob's Ladder question
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 18:54:54 GMT

In article <16852C254.PRAETHE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu> PRAETHE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Ethan Evan Prater) writes:
>The final lyrics of "Jacob's Ladder" are the following:
> 
>   "Follow men's eyes as they look to the skies
>    The shifting shafts of shining weave the fabric of their dreams."
> 
>I was wondering, what is the verb in that last line, or is it merely implied?
>Is "shining" a noun doing the weaving, or does "weave" = "fabric"?  I favor the
>latter, but I'm not sure.


	I love these two lines--  I really do. 

	Anyway, I think the active noun in this line is "shafts" and the verb
is "weave."  The "shafts" are composed "of shining" (i.e. of light, presumably
from the sun, coming down in rays through the clouds).  The wondefully play-
ful part comes with the verb "weave".  These shafts of light are the subject--
they are the ones are doing the weaving, but I think we are also to see them 
as the material out of which the "fabric" is being woven.  The "shafts of
shining," one might say, are being woven into this "fabric" of dreams by
the men who are looking at the sky and seeing this light streaming down.
One could phrase the sense of this last line more clearly by using the
passive tense ("the shifting shafts of shining are woven into the fabric of 
their dreams").  By using an active verb, but still keeping the shafts of 
light in the position of subject, Neil manages to preserve the meter of the
song and also to create the sense of a mystical/religious experience by 
suggesting that these shafts of light are actually weaving themselves into
this "fabric" as if they were a sentient and purposeful supernatural 
phenomenon which possessed that was trying to create something for or 
communicate something to these men who are looking at it.


>This is really esoteric, I know, but does anyone have any insight?

	Believe me, there's been far sillier questions on this group.  Do you
remember the discussion on which member had the coolest hairstyle?  :-)


	--  Jim C. <jchokey@leland.stanford.edu>
From: rob@eebbs.isis.org (Rob Mayer)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Geddy's influences
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 11:38:58 EST
Organization: Electronic Encounters BBS

With all this discussion about who or what influences Neil's 
lyrics I was just wonder, if Geddy is influenced by books, Neil or
other forms of input. To me his lyrics are more poetic than those 
of Neil (ie. Different Strings, Cinderella Man). I would also like to 
hear opinions from others on Geddys' lyrical talents. I personnly 
like them.

Rob

Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: d40374w@kaira.hut.fi (Tero Valkonen)
Subject: Re: Kid Gloves
Organization: The rational midnight star
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:33:40

In article <2SEP199215272434@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov> inthalw@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (Magnus) writes:

   I was wondering what everyone out there thinks about "Kid Gloves" on p/g. I 
   don't believe that I've even seen the song mentioned here in months. Is it 
   crap not worth mentioning or sublime enough to not need any discussion.

I think it's one of the best songs on the album. Musically and - especially -
lyrically. The 5/4 rhythm is really nice and the guitar solo is totally 
wicked. And the lyric, well, Neil proves again that he's quite a knowledge-
able guy. Some of the lines would imply that he knows the history of the
term "kid gloves" quite well. "Anger got bare knuckles" is the clearest
indication of this. The funny thing about the lyric is that you don't have
to know anything about the "kidding gloves" and the history of them, but
if you do, it adds a whole new dimension. 

--
Tero Valkonen
d40374w@kaira.hut.fi
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush,comp.theory,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.warlord,alt.romance,alt.stupidity,alt.whine,rec.arts.disney
From: echeverr@chaph.usc.edu (5150)
Subject: A 5150 group!
Reply-To: rone@skat.usc.edu (5150)
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 03:39:05 GMT

Hey dudz, as I'm now net personality number one (eat shit and die Carasso,
Kibo and you other weenie loosers), how about an alt.fan.5150 group on the
net? What does everyone think? It'd be a scream. Maybe another one called
alt.religion.5150ology as well? Whaddya think? Let's get this show on the
road, fans!

-- 
Ron Echeverri                     |
echeverr@chaph.usc.edu            |       "I don't THINK so."
rone@skat.usc.edu                 |                 - Homey The Clown
flames: nobody@usc.edu            |

 _ __                 __
' )  )               /  `     /
 /--' ________      /--   _. /_  _ , __/> __  __  o
/  \_(_) / / <_    (___, (__/ /_</_\/ (__/ (_/ (_<_


RUSH are way, way kool!!!

Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: PRAETHE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Ethan Evan Prater)
Subject: Re: ? bootlegs (was Rush's Greatest Moment & Live/Recorded Moments)
Organization: Yale University
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 17:05:00 EDT

So how do we bootleg neophytes get them?
 
Ethan
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: herrage@crchh451.bnr.ca (Robert Herrage)
Subject: Dream Theater Sounds Like RUSH -- NOT!
Reply-To: herrage@bnr.ca
Organization: BNR
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1992 13:41:08 GMT

I completely disagree with whoever thought that Dream Theater sounded a lot
like RUSH.  Someone I work with picked up their "Images and Words" CD and
loaned it to me.  I've listened to the whole thing at least twice and could
not find anything musically, technically, lyrically, or instrumentally com-
mon between them and RUSH.

Don't get me wrong, there's some nifty licks here and there but it is defi-
nitely not my preference.  

I had a percussion instructor a while back that stated something that I've
always believed:

  There are drummers.  However, just about anyone can bang on a drum.

  There are percussionists.  These people can play drums as well as 
  the other percussion instruments -- but that's about it.

  Then, there are (percussive) musicians.  These people are percussion-
  ists that know how to play musically, blending with the rest of what's
  going on in a song, using dynamics properly, phrasing in such a way that
  makes a song flow almost effortlessly, etc.

I consider myself to fall in between the last two categories.  Therefore,
when I listen to a song, I am a little biased when it comes to the drum
and/or rhythm section parts -- but I do listen to everything.

Personally, Dream Theater is too choppy with their phrasing.  There's not
any smooth flowing.  I also don't care that much for drummers/percussion-
ists who try to cram too much where it doesn't belong (musically).  This
guy is technically capable but doesn't have the qualities of a musician
(at least in the terms I've mentioned above).  I also don't like bands
that make songs with time signature changes just for the sake of having
them.  There are a lot of these that just don't fit (musically) where they
occurred.  The intros to almost every song seemed to last forever; it wore
the song out for me before I had a chance enjoy the song.  This also seemed
to be the case for various other rhythms later on in some of the songs.  I
don't care for the rhythm section members mimicking each other as much as
these guys do.  Sure, mimicking bass guitar and bass drum or snare drum
licks are great -- in their proper place and at the proper time.  But not
almost all of the time.

Overall, I'm glad that I didn't buy it.  If someone gave it to me, I'd prob-
ably keep it and use portions of it for warming up.
  
Please keep in mind that these are just my opinions.  For others, it may be
right up your alley.  I would, however, recommend that you listen to it be-
fore you buy it just to be safe :)

Please redirect any flames to /dev/null.  I would, however, like to know if
anyone else agrees or disagrees.  Please post them here for everyone else's
benefit.

Rob
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu (Brian E. Saunders)
Subject: Re: Great Moments / Emotive Music
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Madison
Date: 2 Sep 92 14:29:16 CDT

In article <1992Sep1.233847.13809@afit.af.mil> jholtgra@afit.af.mil (Jeremy C. Holtgrave) writes:
>Great Moments:  "A Lyrxst in Wonderland"...La Villa Strangiato
>
>		That is, Alex's first guitar solo after the "Strangiato
>		Theme".  Neil beating a syncopated 7/8 time, the synth
>		(and bass at first) modulating between F and A.
>
>		With no words Alex says so much during that part.

Agreed.  My favorite Alex solo (and one of my favorite guitar solos,
period).  Alex just seems to get his guitar to sing that solo.
-- 

Brian E. Saunders			saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu
From: albertr@crchh780.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Albert Reva)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: ? bootlegs (was Rush's Greatest Moment & Live/Recorded Moments)
Keywords: bootleg's
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:07:26 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx

Exactly, people record it by themselves....some are really good, some are really bad, but overall they are pretty cool...there are also about 20-30 bootlegs on records, and I seen about 10 boots on CD (I have 5 of them)...I hope this begins to clarify your comments.....

albertr
From: KAMCHAR@ibm.cl.msu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Rush & Ayn Rand - HELP PLEASE
Date: 2 Sep 92 00:53:39 GMT
Organization: Kamchatka Charlie

exumfs@exu.ericsson.se (Mark Steph) writes:
>KAMCHAR@ibm.cl.msu.edu (Kamchatka Charlie) writes:
>>     I would suggest that you check out the book "The New Left--The
>>Anti-Industrial Revolution" and read the chapter "Apollo vs Dionysis,"
>>then listen to "Hemispheres" (the cut, althought the whole album is good).
>>Then ask yourself--who would you rather pick on this-Rand or Rush.  I'm
>>sure you'll choose Rush on this matter.
>
>Hold on a minute... Hemishpheres is *extremely* "Randian."  Rand's books
>(and subsequent other Objectivist writers) are *full* of references to
>the "Mind-Body Dichotomy."  (In fact, there is an extensive article in 
>*Intro to Objectivist Epistemology*, which you recommended.).
>
>Objectivism's conclusion is much like Rush's: Heart and mind
>(emotion and logic) are inter-related and should be integrated together.

     There is a difference between the two in how the integration is to be
done.
     Rand and the Objectivists declare that one must INTEGRATE one's heart and
mind through values, with one's highest value being the thing through which all
over values are related and measured.  With them, ALL actions, thoughts,
emotions, and values are to be brought in line with your HIGHEST value (or
suffer the pain of ambivalence and inability to succeed in society).  This is
highly Apollinian, as it subjagates (sp?) the emotions to the mind, and reason
above all these.
     Rush, on the other hand (and using "Hemispheres" as the prime example),
declares that one must BALANCE the wants and needs of the heart and mind. 
Since the mind cannot dictate the soul to be happy and pleasuralbe emotions do
not guard against want and pain, one must balance the two and, while you won't
be extremely happy, you will be able to experience happiness throughout your
life.
     That's the reason I suggested the article "Apollo vs Dionysis" (note the
vs in the title) in "The New Left..."  In it, she comes out fully on the side
of the Apollinian side of human nature--the ability of the mind to overcome all
obstacles and reach its goal.  In it she also trashes what she portrays as the
Dionysian side of human nature (the emotional) by trashing Woodstock and
everything about it.
     Compare this to "Hemispheres (Cygnus X-1 Book 2)."  Here both sides of the
"Mind-Body Dichotomy" are given a positive and sympathetic showing of their
effects, yet are in the end shown as worthless without the other.  Also, note
that the character who survives "Cygnus X-1 Book 1" is named; not Cygnus God of
Integration, but Cygnus God of Balance.
     (Geez, it's getting to the point that I'm doing my review of Hemispheres
before I do it.  Guess I'll have to lay low for the next few days before going
full tilt into the review itself...B+)

Later
KAMCHATKA CHARLIE          KAMCHAR@ibm.cl.msu.edu
From: gownder@husc9.harvard.edu (Joseph Gownder)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Red Sector A and Distant Early Warning
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:16:18 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1992Aug31.204550.1977@afit.af.mil> jholtgra@afit.af.mil (Jeremy C. Holtgrave) writes:
>>Comments?
>
>Two haunted songs off a very haunted album.  p/g, IMHO, is Rush's most
>coherent and focused album.  Even moreso than theme albumsides like 2112
>and Hemishperes.  Each song on p/g is part of a big picture.  That along
>with a sound unique even for Rush makes it really stand out among the
>rest.

My original post was _supposed_ to say much more than just "Comments?" --
I'm not quite sure what happened.
 
Anyway, I'm surprised to see that these two songs are doing relatively
poorly in the poll.  "Red Sector A" is my very favorite Rush song.  It's
complex in both music and lyrics -- is it about the holocaust in WWII? A
sci-fi scenario (as someone suggested to me)?  It's one of those songs I
can just listen to over and over.
 
"Distant Early Warning," at #17, is doing a bit better in the polls, but
seems to me a better song than, for instance, "The Trees," which ranks
ahead of it in the polls.

(Now) Comments?

- J. P. Gownder
gownder@husc9.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: ericm@eebbs.isis.org (Eric Mathurin)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Rush & Terry Brown
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 21:39:54 EST
Organization: Electronic Encounters BBS

> Oh, please!  They were certainly NOT the greatest.  Good, very innovative, bu
> mostly behind the times.  I mean, come on, a rap on an album, 10 years AFTER 
> rap came up from the underground.

Calling it rap could be lethal around here.  ;-)  And are you saying any
new band that plays rock and roll is behind the times?  Sounds like it.

> Yes, their recent work has been rather lame.  But believe me, their older 
> works were simply copies of Led Zeppelin.  Rush simply has not been able to 
> keep up in these recent years with more progressive bands.

I don't think they're trying to 'keep up' with anyone.  I don't think
you really know what you're talking about to say that their older works
were copies of Zeppelin.  Perhaps maybe their first, and maybe second
album.  The rest?  No way.

Take care,
Eroc

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 ericm@eebbs.isis.org (Eric Mathurin)  | "no one is blameless,          
 Sysop, Electronic Encounters BBS      |  but we're all without shame"   
 (613)820-0324, 1:163/133@FidoNet      |       -- Second Nature, Rush        
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ericm@eebbs.isis.org (Eric Mathurin)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: anybody know what this means?
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 23:20:55 EST
Organization: Electronic Encounters BBS

> dark" it's time to start the tour.  Makes sense to me...

It could mean anything.  Isn't that the beauty of it?  ;-)

Take care,
Eric 


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 ericm@eebbs.isis.org (Eric Mathurin)  | "no one is blameless,          
 Sysop, Electronic Encounters BBS      |  but we're all without shame"   
 (613)820-0324, 1:163/133@FidoNet      |       -- Second Nature, Rush        
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush