HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Flame wars on sci.med
Date: 12 Oct 92 14:09:11 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

This weekend I received an email communication from someone
who I respect very much for his accomplishments (without which
you very likely would not be reading this message or any others).
In a very nice way he said he appreciated the information that
Steve, Ken, and other of the professional posted to sci.med.
However, he felt that we detracted from the professionality
of the information by getting into debates with the lunatic
fringe.  This is something that some people like Ray Dunn have
been saying also, although not in such a nice way.  

Thinking about it, he is probably right.  Most people who read 
sci.med are capable of telling nonsense without us having to
counter each posting, which merely lowers us to their level.

So I'm going to attempt to stop debating these people.  I will
still answer questions and post information, but will try very
hard to avoid responding to nonsense and getting drawn into
flame wars with medical hobbyists.  

Occassionally I may still respond, when I think I might have some
chance of influencing someone who needs to be influenced.
An example is the fellow who said they refused to let their hyperactive
child have Ritalin.  His initial posting looked like someone who
might have been convinced by his wife to follow an irrational course
but still may have some of his own faculties intact, and so for the
child's sake, I did make an attempt to get him to see reason.  Subsequent
postings of his have shown him to be beyond reason, and I won't have
any more to say about it.

Hope this doesn't disappoint any of you who have enjoyed fighting
with me over the net.  

And I also hope I will be able to stick to it.  Arguing is a lot of
fun for me and it will be hard to give it up.  I guess I'll have
to go to talk.misc.religion and argue there.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: susan@wpi.WPI.EDU (susan)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: hepatitis
Date: 16 Oct 92 12:59:17 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu


Will chronic persistant hepatitis (as a result
of hepatitis C) automatically turn into chronic
active hepatitis, over the course of time?

Or does chronic persistant maybe *never* turn into 
chronic active?

if chronic persistant can turn into chronic
active - how often should liver biopsies be
performed (annually, biannually, etc.) to check
on progression.

thank you,

sue
From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David A. Nye MD)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Starting an alternative medicine newsgroup
Date: 9 Oct 92 23:49:54 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

In article <1992Oct8.180240.8661@philmtl.philips.ca>, ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes:
> This is exactly what's wrong with sci.med at the moment.  Not that the
> fringe posts their views, but that they're then hounded in umpteen

The real trouble with sci.med at the moment IMHO is that it contains
incompatible groups who each want sci.med to be something different.
You will NEVER get alternative medicine and scientific medicine 
types together in one forum without this happening.  The resulting
fighting makes others not want to be here.  It is not a warm, fuzzy
place.  The discord has prevented several others I know of from
joining.  It's time for a divorce.
From: fulk@cs.rochester.edu (Mark Fulk)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: My wife drank during her pregnancy and the baby lived!
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:46:24 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department University of Rochester

In article <1992Oct12.153803.1985@news.columbia.edu> stone@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Glenn Stone) writes:
>In article <1992Oct11.045815.4727@cs.rochester.edu> fulk@cs.rochester.edu (Mark Fulk) writes:
>>so, they dissected out the umbilical cord of an in-utero baboon fetus
>>(putting the mother under anesthesia, I assume), then administered a
>>shot of grain alcohol (via naso-gastric tube, if I recall correctly).
>>They started drawing blood samples from the cord.
>>
>>The result?  No alcohol!  What's even more amazing, no blood!  The umbilical
>>cord shut down, becoming visibly empty of blood for some time.  The
>
>Was this published?  Do you have a reference?

An article describing the result appeared in Science News in 1983, sometime
in the spring.  (My original date was wrong.)  Science News is a weekly,
and nearly always supplies a bibliographic reference for its articles.  Our
obstetricians, Murray Yost and Jack Lippes, were also aware of this result.
I could spend an hour or so looking for the reference, and will if enough
people ask, but you now know enough to find it as efficiently as I.
-- 
Mark A. Fulk			University of Rochester
Computer Science Department	fulk@cs.rochester.edu
From: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: ken mitchum, please don't leave sci.med
Date: 14 Oct 92 12:53:11 GMT
Reply-To: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <KPC.92Oct10152014@zog.arc.nasa.gov> kpc@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov writes:

>i gain more knowledge per apparent unit of energy expended by you (ken
>mitchum, steve dyer, et al.)  in your advice- or question-answering
>modes than in your anti-flake modes.

I am sure this is true. Contrary to what may seem to be the case,
I do try to use a measure of restraint, and I ignore many postings
which secretly infuriate me. As I've stated before, the thing that
really bothers me about this group is the "guilt by association":
even if I don't pay attention to the crazy stuff, the fact that I
post here makes me feel a bit uneasy at times. If I do go into
"anti-flake mode", it is usually after silently watching several
other postings which just increasingly irritate me. I will certainly
try to limit this in the future.


I am flattered but also slightly embarassed by being asked to not
leave the newsgroup. I am certainly no expert, and there is very
little factual material that I have posted that a reasonable physician
would not have already told the patient. It bothers me that people
have to seek this information from a newsgroup.

 -km



Newsgroups: sci.med
From: FHERTZBERG@finabo.abo.fi (Fredrik Hertzberg Lit)
Subject: PSYCHIATRY: Where to study in the U.S.
Organization: Abo Akademi University, Finland
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 12:44:37 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.23

  I got a Fulbright scholarship from 1993- onwards for grad study in the
U.S. I'm planning to go to California (to study English), but I've got one
problem: what sould my wife - who becomes a licensed doctor in Dec 1993 - 
do over there? She would be interested in specializing in pshychiatry or
in working as a doctor in the U.S. Could anyone give us some information on
what would be the wisest thing to do? (My grant is for one year, but I will
try to stay on longer and obtain a Ph.D) We hope to go to California, but
please suggest other good places for pshyc. study / doctor's work as well,
and could anybodtell us what a foreign doctor needs to do before he/she
may get an occupation in the U S. Is it terribly difficult and improbable?
Yearning for any kind of help,
Fredrik Hertzberg, ]bo Akademi, Finland.

Newsgroups: sci.med,sci.med.nutrition
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Giving Blood! "Gimme that thing, I'll do it myself"
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:28:44 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

Collene Pearce writes:
> yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo) wrote:
>> You need to give blood for a blood test and the nurse looks at
>> your arms and says you have small veins...
> 
> Yes, I have had that same experience and variations of. Occasionally the
> expert is able to find it, but by that time your arm looks like a pincushion.
...  Very, very rarely I've
> had a nurse or technician who can find the vein the first time and without
> pain.  This tells me that if you really know what you are doing, then 
> inserting the needle doesn't have to be painful.
> 
> I no longer give blood for this reason.  

I have crummy little, deep veins that work well when they're hit (they
don't roll or collapse) but they can be hard to find.  Now, I just tell
the nurse or tech that the left arm is an easier stick than the right,
and the veins are small and deep.  Some will immediately go find someone
with more experience, others will say, "Thanks" and hit it the first time.
Before I started mentioning my veins, I had my share of bad sticks.

My mother has veins that are apparently easy to hit, but they roll and
collapse.  This time, when she was in the hospital, I persuaded her to
_tell_ the phlebotomists she didn't know that her veins rolled.  
Result: many fewer failed attempts, many fewer bruises.

Suggestion: Next time someone finds your veins on the first go, ask them
how they would describe your veins to another (nurse/tech/phlebotomist).
Then see if the "batting average" improves when you can tell the person
what the difficulties might be.

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Using the net for Curbside Consults
From: RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg)
Date: 12 Oct 92 09:19:18 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Philosophy Dept., Wesleyan University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20Lines: 24

The idea of physicians' using the net for curbside consults makes me just a tad
nervous.  I mean, if my doc consults with someone (formally or informally) I
HOPE its because either (1) she knows the person professionally & knows that
this person is knowledgeable, wise, savvy, an expert, etc.; or (2) the person
she consults with is involved in current research on the subject; or (3) she
has some other way of ascertaining that she ought to take that particular
person's opinions, ideas, etc. about the topic seriously.

What worries me is that any net.bozo (folks who've had their med licenses
revoked, psychopaths impersonating physicians, disgruntled med school rejects,
& god knows who else) could set up an account under a name with "MD" tacked
onto it.  I mean, it even occasionally happens that someone can impersonate a
physician successfully for a while in f-t-f encounters before being discovered.
Wouldn't net.consults just provide a ready forum for such wannabee's, with no
credential verification at all?

I mean, I'd be pretty nervous about it if my doc ever said to me, "Well, I'm
not sure about this treatment in this situation.  I've never encountered X,Y,Z
in situation A before.  But I queried sci.med.consult, & some doc from Nebraska
says he's seen that work before."  Gulp!?

------------------------
Ruth Ginzberg <rginzberg@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
Philosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA
Newsgroups: sci.med.aids
From: Ron Buckmire <buckmr@rpi.edu>
Subject: 'Innocent Victims' grab AIDS dollars
Note: Copyright 1992, Dan R. Greening. Non-commercial reproduction allowed.
Archive-Number: 6314
Organization: unspecified
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 23:44:05 EDT

I heard on the international gay and lesbianradio magazine THIS WAY OUT that
40 PERCENT of the NIH AIDS research budget is being assigned to research on
drugs for PEDIATRIC AIDS cases, even though children with AIDS make up only
TWO PERCENT of the people with the disease.

The report said that it was unclear whether Congress knew that by mandating the
level of Pediatric AIDS research while not explicitly provoding for it in
the overall AIDS budget that the money would have to come from money that would
go towards fighting AIDS in the majority of cases [gay men, IVDU].

Regardless, the result is that adult AIDS programs are being scaled back.

Anyone know more about this?

---
RON BUCKMIRE
The Gloria Allred Fan Club
11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
Newsgroups: sci.med.aids
From: tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda)
Subject: Re: Statistical help needed...
Note: Copyright 1992, Dan R. Greening. Non-commercial reproduction allowed.
Archive-Number: 6296
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:10:57 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.174247.20090@cs.ucla.edu> pepke@scri1.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.034711.23203@cs.ucla.edu> tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted 
>Kalivoda) writes:
>>  Of course, many
>> organizations, like WHO, have given proclamations (WHO said 100,000 
>million
>> HIV by 88), but I have yet to see any scientists (epidemiolgists) suggest
>> risks for each American living today.
>
>Does not compute. 100,000 million is twenty times the human population of 
>the Earth.  What was it really? 100 million?
>
Woops...That was terrible.  Yes, 100 million.

Ted kalivoda

Newsgroups: sci.med.aids
From: Billi Goldberg <bigoldberg@igc.apc.org>
Subject: Delaneys' New Role
Note: Copyright 1992, Dan R. Greening. Non-commercial reproduction allowed.
Archive-Number: 6318
Organization: unspecified
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 11:27:06 PDT

LEADERSHIP CHANGE FOR S.F. AIDS GROUP

New role for founder of Project Inform

  Project Inform found Martin Delaney is stepping aside as executive 
director of the influential San Francisco AIDS advocacy organization, 
which is facing financial problems.

  Delaney said yesterday that an interim executive director will be 
sought to run the day-to-day operations of the program until a permanent 
replacement is found.

  He said that his own role at Project Inform will remain largely 
unchanged under the new title of founding director, but that he will no 
longer be managing the local headquarters staff.

  A controversial leader of national stature in the fight against AIDS, 
Delaney has played a highly visible role in attempts to change U.S. Food 
and Drug Administration rules to speed approval of experimental AIDS 
drugs.

  He has also been instrumental in distributing information about 
underground medications procured overseas or from clandestine 
laboratories.

  Delaney acknowledged that Project Inform has been struggling 
financially in recent months because, he said, of a drop-off in 
contributions attributed to the economy.

  "We are coming out of a financial hole," he said.

  With an annual budget of $1.8 million, the organization is entirely 
dependent on donations for its operation, and Delaney said major donors 
have recently shifted their resources to the Bill Clinton presidential 
campaign.

  "It has been a difficult situation," he said.

  The organization is currently trying to find a way to avoid layoffs 
among its 16-member staff.

  Delaney said Project Inform's development director, Robert Elkins, a 
former banker, resigned last month. He said the resignation was the 
result of "a mutual agreement."

  Delaney said he and the staffers have recognized that he was not 
spending enough time in San Francisco to properly manage the local 
office, and that the decision to seek a new executive director was under 
consideration for a long time.

  With his new title, Delaney said, he will be able to devote more time 
to fund raising and to his primary responsibility of public advocacy in 
Washington, D.C., and around the country.
Newsgroups: sci.med.aids
From: Billi Goldberg <bigoldberg@igc.apc.org>
Subject: Re: UVR Activism
Note: Copyright 1992, Dan R. Greening. Non-commercial reproduction allowed.
Archive-Number: 6300
Organization: unspecified
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 07:32:26 PDT

I have received a response from Dr. Marcus A. Conant concerning my 
complaint to the Medical Board of California. 

I am quoting only that section of the letter that pertains to treatment 
of psoriases and UVR.

"As a general rule, we try to manage psoriasis with AZT and eosinophilic 
folliculitis with Itraconazole."

"Short burst of high dose corticosteroids are effective in managing both 
of these conditions, but as you know, the immunosuppressive effects of 
cortisone in an HIV positive patient is problematic. In those patients 
who cannot tolerate AZT or who do not respond to itraconazole and where 
their psoriasis or eosinophilic folliculitis is so severe as to 
compromise their quality of life, I have recommended controlled exposure 
to ultraviolet light, stressing to the patient that she should be 
certain that they tan only without obtaining enough ultraviolet light to 
burn. Using this technique, I have seen improvement in these patients 
and we have seen no evidence of CD4 drop or the appearance of Kaposi's 
sarcoma to suggest that this therapy is detrimental."

/s/Marcus A. Conant, MD
Newsgroups: sci.med.aids
From: wixer!wixer.cactus.org!will@cs.utexas.edu (Bill Staniewicz)
Subject: 60 Minutes telecast
Note: Copyright 1992, Dan R. Greening. Non-commercial reproduction allowed.
Archive-Number: 6298
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 17:38:05 GMT

The recent 60 Minutes telecast profiled the work
of two aids activists who expedited the AIDS
drug testing process.

I am a new subscriber to this group and was curious
if this effort and the work of these individuals
has been discussed before.
-- 
Bill
will@wixer.cactus.org

Newsgroups: sci.med.aids
From: jnynge@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: deaf PWAs
Note: Copyright 1992, Dan R. Greening. Non-commercial reproduction allowed.
Reply-To: jnynge@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Archive-Number: 6289
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:03:02 GMT

Does anyone know of any organizations who deal with deaf PWAs?  We
are trying to get a speaker for our school here and dpn't
exactly know how to go about it.
       Thanks
             Jeanne
Newsgroups: sci.med.aids
From: bigoldberg@igc.apc.org (Billi Goldberg)
Newsgroups: sci.med.aids
Subject: Sabin and Vaccines
Date: 10 Oct 92 14:43:44 GMT
Organization: unspecified
Note: Copyright 1992, Dan R. Greening. Non-commercial reproduction allowed.
Archive-Number: 6306

Interesting article. One voice against the AIDS vaccine "experts."
But, then again, he has had some experience with vaccines.

My feeling is that he's absolutely correct as I have stated many times 
before.
************************************************************************
SABIN AB.

IMPROBABILITY OF EFFECTIVE VACCINATION AGAINST HUMAN IMMUNODEFICIENCY
VIRUS BECAUSE OF ITS INTRACELLULAR TRANSMISSION AND RECTAL PORTAL OF 
ENTRY.

PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES OF THE UNITED STATES OF
AMERICA, 1992 SEP 15, V89 N18:8852-8855.     

ABSTRACT:
The worldwide effort to produce a vaccine against AIDS continues to 
disregard the fact that even human immunodeficiency virus (HIV)-specific 
neutralizing antibodies and cell-mediated immunity are ineffective 
against virus within cells without viral antigens on the cell 
membrane--and that much of HIV infection is transmitted in this manner. 
According to a recent report, a simian immunodeficiency virus vaccine 
that protected monkeys against an intravenous challenge with cell-free 
virus was, as predicted, ineffective against an intravenous challenge 
with the same amount of virus in infected cells. Moreover, antibody and 
HIV have been found to coexist in cell-free plasma from asymptomatic and 
symptomatic patients. Excluding direct introduction of HIV into the 
bloodstream, the most common and efficient form of transmission is by 
receptive anal intercourse, and semen contains large number of infected 
cells per milliliter. Recent reports showing that colorectal cells can 
be persistently infected by HIV and that HIV RNA and cDNA are present in 
the cells of the colon of dead AIDS patients indicated that either 
cell-free or intracellular HIV has the capacity to multiply at the 
portal of entry in the colorectal area without interference from 
neutralizing antibodies. The available data provide no basis for testing 
any HIV vaccine in human being either before or after infection. The 
main challenge is to find a way to kill cells with chromosomally 
integrated HIV cDNA without harming normal cells, perhaps by identifying 
repressor proteins that might be produced by the cells with integrated 
HIV cDNA and thus could become specific targets for cell-killing drugs.

Page 8853:
"It has been report that seminal fluid can have 100,000,000 infectious 
doses of HIV-1 per mil. a much higher concentration than is found in the 
blood."

Page 8854:
"In healthy men, semen contains about 3 million lymphocytes per ml and 
infected persons it contains many more."
Newsgroups: sci.med.aids
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: deaf PWAs
Note: Copyright 1992, Dan R. Greening. Non-commercial reproduction allowed.
Archive-Number: 6293
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 05:01:54 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.141059.15191@cs.ucla.edu> jnynge@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>Does anyone know of any organizations who deal with deaf PWAs?  We
>are trying to get a speaker for our school here and dpn't
>exactly know how to go about it.

These groups, listed in the San Francisco Bay Times,  might be able to give
you some pointers: 

   Services for deaf and hearing impaired people infected with HIV:
   Offered by the UCSF Center on Deafness (UCCD) & the Hearing Society.
   Mental health services, hearing aid and decoding equipment loans, 
   and more.  Call Florrie Burke at the Center on Deafness, 476-4980
   (voice), 476-7600 (TDD) or Jerry Friedman at the Hearing Society, 
   863-4710 (voice), 863-2550 (TDD).  [All numbers area code 415.]

or 

   Bridging the Gap Alliance: Social/political group of deaf, hard-of-hearing,
   and hearing lesbians.  Meets monthly (meetings in ASL).  New signers are
   welcome.   Info: write BGA, PO Box 5669, Berkeley, CA  94705.

I couldn't find a listing for the Rainbow Society for the Deaf.

You might also try the Gay Men's Health Crisis in New York, AmFAR, or one
of the other large AIDS groups. 

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Newsgroups: sci.med.aids
From: pepke@scri1.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
Subject: Re: Statistical help needed...
Note: Copyright 1992, Dan R. Greening. Non-commercial reproduction allowed.
Archive-Number: 6292
Organization: Florida State University, but I don't speak for them
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:27:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.034711.23203@cs.ucla.edu> tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted 
Kalivoda) writes:
>  Of course, many
> organizations, like WHO, have given proclamations (WHO said 100,000 
million
> HIV by 88), but I have yet to see any scientists (epidemiolgists) suggest
> risks for each American living today.

Does not compute. 100,000 million is twenty times the human population of 
the Earth.  What was it really? 100 million?

Eric Pepke                                    INTERNET: pepke@scri.fsu.edu
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute MFENET:   pepke@fsu
Florida State University                      SPAN:     scri::pepke
Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052                    BITNET:   pepke@fsu

Disclaimer: My employers seldom even LISTEN to my opinions.
Meta-disclaimer: Any society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.
From: ESPINOZA%RIO.BITNET@VM.USC.EDU
Newsgroups: sci.med.aids
Subject: Re: (6252) Project Open Hand changes criteria
Date: 11 Oct 92 14:44:00 GMT
Organization: unspecified
Note: Copyright 1992, Dan R. Greening. Non-commercial reproduction allowed.
Archive-Number: 6308

How is this project being funded?

Would it be something that could be used in other citys?

Please keep me informed

Richard
Newsgroups: sci.med.aids
From: <RA05477%SWTEXAS.BITNET@VM.USC.EDU>
Subject:  question about trasnsmission by mosquitoes
Note: Copyright 1992, Dan R. Greening. Non-commercial reproduction allowed.
Archive-Number: 6301
Organization: unspecified
Date:     Fri,  9 Oct 1992 11:11 CDT

I am interested in who is working on the transmission of AIDS by Mosquitoes?

I would like information on this subject along with references to get further
information.
Thanks
Ron Abramson
Newsgroups: sci.med.aids