From: maj1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Mark "Beren" Jamison)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 12:17:23 GMT

In article <Brr3Dx.Ey8@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson) writes:
>In article <10010651@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella) writes:
>>In rec.sport.baseball, djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson) writes:
>>
>>Do you really mean to say you'd take the lesser player if he gave 100% effort?
>>Awfully sweet of you, but not conducive to winning, which is what a lot of us
>>enjoy.
>
>If the lesser player can improve the clubhouse atmosphere which in turn
>may improve the the teams performance on the field then of course I would
>take the less talented player.
>

So you are telling me that if both Barry Bonds and Dan Gladden were availible
to your team , you would take dan Gladden??!??

Man oh man don't I wish you were the GM of the Twins or Blue Jays, You would
get the same kind of records that the Florida Marlins will next year..

>>> Another thing that stats don't show is how agressive a player is.  For 
>>> anyone who has seen R. Alomar play a lot you will realize that he forces
>>> other teams to make errors by running extra hard to first on a ground ball
>>> causing the other team to rush a throw etc.  As far as I know there is no
>>> stat which shows this.
>>
>>OBA would if it counted "reached base on errors", which most true sta-heads
>>believe it should.
>
>Even so if the wild through goes into the dugout and the player goes to 
>second the player is now in scoring position which is much better than
>being on first or out which a non agressive players may be.  The same
>can be said for a player trying to stretch a single into a double and
>forces a wild throw and now he is on third which another player may only
>be on first.
>

No, if a wild pitch gets away from a catcher, and you have speed greater than
Jody Davis, you will adavance to second agressive or no.. And for your
single stretching example, 2/3 of the time the throw is on target and your
"agressive" player just cost the team a baserunner.. Is it worth it??
Most people you would label as agressive I bet I would label as 
a) Extremely Fast 
or
b) Stupid, an a liability on the bases..

>>> Stats don't tell everything about a player so don't
>>> base your arguements on stats alone.
>>
>>If the argument is "who is a better player", then good objective statistics
>>contribute a whole lot more than what someone says about how hard the players
>>worked.
>>

Look at Marc's remark down here Dave.. SDCN (tm) don't use qualitative 
things such as clubhouse repoire, because they are subjective. Look at the 
arguement you are having presently in the Winfield is better than Bell bit??
Without statistics, and without having played for the Jays, you are making 
opinions based on second hand information from reporters who may have hated
Bell and loved Winfield..
--
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                       Still looking for Luthien
maj1@ra.msstate.edu                                 maj1@camlost.b17a.ingr.com
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