Organization: University of Missouri-Columbia Campus Computing, 314-882-2000
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Tue, 5 Jan 1993 12:24:36 CST
From:         CCCAMPER@MIZZOU1.BITNET
Subject: Re: EWTN
              5 Jan 1993 12:59:00 EST from <achavez@UMSA.UMD.EDU>

On Tue, 5 Jan 1993 12:59:00 EST Alfred S. Chavez said:
>What are the objections to Medjugorje?  So far, in all I read, serious
>students of the alleged apparitions always demur to the ultimate authority
>of the Church.  The catch-22 seems to be that the Church never rules on
>such phenomena until the sequence of apparitions is all over and have
>withstood the test of time, or whenever something occurs that definitvely
>shows the phenomena are not of divine origin.  The Virgin's "messages" all
>seem, to me at least, to be straightforward and in line with the gospel, and
>the main point of the events.  There is also a great deal of talk about the
>predictions of Medjugorje (and, as it turns out, of numerous other apparitions
>all over the world, including a rather astonishing offshoot of Medjugorje at

The message of Medjugorje follows Fatima, which *IS* approved by the Church.
Mary said  God wanted a devotion to her Immaculate Heart, prayers -
particularly the Rosary. And "Please do not offend God anymore, for He is
too greatly offended". There was to be a collegial consecration of
Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. If this was not done, Russia would
spread the errors of communism throughout the world and entire nations
would be annihilated. This consecration has not yet been done, although
some, including a Fr. Robert J. Fox in "Soul" magazine, have tried to
say that it has been done.

So enter Medjugorje, and Our Lady trying to get mankind to heed the
message of Fatima. Medjugorje's messages tell of signs and warnings and
events of apocalyptic nature - just as the *approved* message of Fatima.

Sr. Lucia, who was the child who received the Fatima apparitions and spoke
with Our Lady had this to say in an interview with Fr. Augustine Fuentes
on Dec. 26, 1957:

Mary is "very sad because no one has paid any attention to her message,
neither the good nor the bad." Lucia described the punishment from Heaven
as "imminent" and said God was going to chastise the world "in a terrible
manner," repeating the warning that Russia would one day be the instrument
of chastisement if it was not converted, and that many nations would
disappear from the face of the earth. The devil, said Lucia, "Is
especially after those planning on entering the priesthood. He was making
them delay or cancel their entrance into religious vocation, while among
the laypeople, Satan was removing all enthusiasm for sacrifices and
dedication to God.
  "Father," she told Fuentes, "the Most Holy Virgin did not tell me that
we are in the last times of the world but she did make me understand
this for three reasons.
  "The first reason is because she told me that the devil is in a mood
for engaging in a decisive battle against the Virgin. And a decisive
battle is the final battle where one side will be victorious and the
other side will suffer defeat. Hence from now on we must choose sides.
Either we are for God or we are for the Devil. There is no other
possibility.
  "The second reason is because she said to my cousins as well as to
myself that God is giving two last remedies to the world. These are
the Holy Rosary and Devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. These are
the two last remedies, which signify that there will be no others.
  "The third reason is because in the plans of Divine Providence,
God always before He is about to chastise the world exhausts all other
remedies. Now, when He sees that the world pays no attention whatsoever,
then, as we say in our imperfect manner of speaking, He offers us with
a certain trepidation the last means of salvation, His Most Holy Mother.
It is with a certain trepidation because if you despise and repulse
this ultimate means we will not have any more forgiveness from Heaven
because we will have committed a sin which the Gospel calls the sin
against the Holy Spirit....Let us remember that Jesus Christ is a very
good Son and that He does not permit that we offend and despise His
Most Holy Mother".

Either His Most Holy Mother, or Satan, has come to Medjugorje to again
beg us to turn back to God, to prayer, penance, peace, fasting and
conversion.

>a parish in Scottsdale, Az.).  But interpretation of apocalytic messages has
>always been a tricky business: it's one area I feel most comfortable in
>relying on the Magisterium.  The basic messages of Medjugorje,
>however--prayer, fasting, penance, conversion, and renunciation are pretty
>basic to the gospel.  With so many things going to hell in a handbasket, it
>does not stretch my belief system too far to think that heaven would
>intervene in some way.  And as many point out, the woman in the Book of
>Revelation does just that, during the end times.

Yes, and there will be signs and wonders and an outpouring of the Holy
Spirit.
>
>On this last point, my own take (strictly!) on "end times" is that, besides
>the final one, there have been, and will be, many "end times" when history
>turns over a new leaf and new eras begin.  I believe we are going through just
>such a sea change, and that the apparitions, if true, are meant to raise our
>consciousness to what is occurring and to help those "with ears to hear" to
>prepare for the inevitable and not get lost in the confusion described in the
>gospels for end times.

Just think, if all comes to pass as has been written, how unbearably difficult
it will be to cope in those terrible times, without having surrendered to
God and followed the requests of His Mother. We have insurance,savings
accounts, retirement accounts, etc. What are we building with God? How
truly Holy are we trying to become, to prepare to live with Him?

>Fred Chavez

In Jesus and Mary,
Elizabeth

"Mercy is the flower of Love."
                             Sr. Faustina, "Divine Mercy in My Soul"
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU