From: sug6@usite-next.uchicago.edu (Patrick Sugent)
Subject: Re: Entitlements and the deficit? (Was: Setting some of Bush/Quayle's
Organization: University of Chicago
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 23:07:38 GMT

In article <92246.074652DGS4@psuvm.psu.edu> <DGS4@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:

  I just want to correct your statement of my views on one or two
points and I'll let you do whatever you like.


>I've never diaagreed with this.  It is the main problem, yet the numbers
>in the academic literature that I've seen are not nearly as pessimistic
>as those you suggest.  I agree that it will take political courage.  I also
>think we should be willing to admit that it won't be painless.

  This is where you mislead.  I never said painless.  However, I think
our current course will induce a greater pain.


>Where I think you err, and in fact mislead netters, is in suggesting that
>we can just cut off entitlements to the rich, and nobody will get hurt.

  I never said this in any way, shape, or form.  You accuse me of
misleading?   In fact, I think you would be hard pressed to find
me ever use the term "rich".  "Richer" perhaps, but I'm
not certain of what "rich" means.  My opinions are more accurately
stated by my comments above.

 
>In addition, I think your arguments are weakened when you employ data that
>are less than factual.

  I have never, to the best of my knowledge, employed such data.  I 
have always cited my sources for my data.  If you don't like it, look
it up.  The numbers I use are very public and come from (primarily)
_Time_ and _The Economist_.  You may not like them and have a right
to say why (of course), but (as I noted) we have been through this
before.


>It seems that you want me to keep
>quiet so that you can persuade the netters to see things the Sugent way.

  No.  I want to avoid long drawn out flames, just as this is
quickly becoming and as posts I remember with you (on this topic) tend to
become (whether with me or others).  I did feel a need to post
and clarify your errors in stating my opinions.  

  I am not silly enough to think that I can persuade netters to see
things any particular way nor am I silly enough to think it would matter
in any real sense if I could.  My goal is to provide information to
let people do with as they like.  As I said, the media and politicians
feed us a great deal of misinformation on entitlements for political
reasons (it's a hot topic and _is_ going to cause a lot of people some
pain one way or another.  Actually, it already does.)  I've cited my sources 
and my relevant data.  I'm willing to leave it at that and answer any 
questions as best I can.

  One of the few reasons I read the net is to gain information.
Believe it or not, I have even done so from you.  However, I do dislike
flame wars and you get involved in a high number of them on this topic.  
I just wish not to participate.  (Unfortunately, I felt reeled in to this 
post with your claims about my "no pain" opinions of "the rich". 
Anyone who knows me knows I wouldn't say that.)

  Anyway, best flames to you.

Pat


-- 
Patrick Sugent				"Cry 'Havoc!' and let slip   
sug6@usite-next.uchicago.edu		 the Hogs of Peace."
(708) 447-1771				 --P.J. O'Rourke