From: jchokey@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Alexander Chokey)
Subject: Re: Bombadil
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 00:21:37 GMT



In article <Bz6Dyn.B6y@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, dickeyml@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
writes:

>Could someone post a summary of the discussions on Tom
>Bombadil?  

	OK, here's a quick summary of all the Bombadil discussions that 
have come up.  Details and nuances have been left out:

Poster #1:	What is Tom?  He's a strange figure.
Poster #2:	Tom is a powerful being--  he's clearly a Valar or a Maiar.
Poster #3	No way is Tom a Valar-  he's not listed as being one in Sil.
Poster #2	Well, that doesn't mean anything, but let's call him a Maiar
			then.  He's _at least_ that powerful, although I
			still think he's a Maiar.
Poster #3	I remain unconvinced-- you haven't proven anything.  Tom is
			neither a Valar or a Maiar.
Poster #2	Is too!
Poster #3       Is not!
Poster #4	I once read some pseudo-scholarly publication that argued that
			Tom was actually Aule.  I found it quite convincing.
Poster #5	Bombadil was just a character that Tolkien included, but
			acknowledged that he didn't really fit.	In his 
			_Letters_ he calls him an "enigma" and says that he
			is "not an important person."  Don't try to make too
			much sense of him.  He never referred to him as either
			a Valar, a Maiar, or an Istari.
Poster #2	I still think he's a Valar because there's nothing else he
			could be.  Who else could be that old?
Poster #6	Tom is a one-of-a-kind creature-  an sui generis-- who is tied
			to a specific place.  Tolkien once said that he 
			thought Tom embodied the spirit of the English West
			Midlands.
Poster #2	Just because he's tied to one place doesn't mean he's not a
			Valar.  And would you care to provide a citation for
			your quote?			
Poster #7	In one of the numerous volumes of Christopher Tolkien's
			seemingly-endless _History of Middle Earth_, there's
			a passage that in a manuscript that suggests that Tom 
			was a Valar.
Poster #8	There's no textual basis at all for reading Tom as a Valar,
			a Maiar, or an Istari.  If you want to read LOTR
			through the lens of the Silmarillion, then it's true:
			Tom would have to be one of those.  But that's _not_
			what he's presented as in either LOTR, ATB, or 
			Tolkien's letters.  Bombadil and Goldberry frustrate
			the reader's (and Tolkien's) desire for a completely
			logical, unified, and coherent, world in which 
			everything fits perfectly.  One might say that he
			deconstructs the whole idea of the meta-narrative of
			Middle earth.
Poster #9	Couldn't Tom and Goldberry be Elves?  Doesn't Frodo say
			she's Elf-like?
Poster #10	No, his impressions of her are said to be similar to those
			he has of the Elves--  but she is clearly not an Elf.
Poster #2	I still think he's a Valar or a Maiar--  and so's Goldberry.
Poster #5	Look, you're all engaged in pure whimsy.  You're never going
			to figure out what Bombadil is because Tolkien him-
			never knew what he is. 
Poster #11	Bombadil seems to spend a good deal of his time singing.
			Has anyone every thought that he might be a symbol
			for the spirit of poetry, the spirit of music, or
			even of Tolkien himself?

	. . .  and so on.


	Personally, I tend to agree with "posters" 5 and 8, although I think
something can be said for the arguments of "posters" 6 and 11--  but I'm not
going to rehash all of my earlier arguments on that here.


>I have not been able to find any good text
>on where he can from/originated and what his purpose,
>if any, is.  For whose purpose does he serve?  His own?

	I think you can't find any good text on where Tom is from and what is
purpose is because none exist.  Bombadil is present as a major character only
in chapters 6-8 of LOTR, and in _The Adventures of Tom Bombadil_.  Tolkien
also declines to elaborate on such things in his letters.  Any writings
which you come across that purport to explain Tom's origins or his purpose
are mere speculation without any grounding in Tolkien's own texts.


	--  Jim C. <jchokey@leland.stanford.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien