HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin)
Subject: Re: The Nurturing Network 1-800-TNN-4MOM
Keywords: From: decay@
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 23:36:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.165435.2167@brandonu.ca> mcbeanb@brandonu.ca writes:

[text deleted before and after quote]

#One day (maybe when I'm 65), I'd like very much to be a doctor.  
#One of my fears of attaining that goal is that a patient may ask me 
#to perform an abortion, even after considering all the alternatives.
#Personally, I would rather loathe the dirty deed, as I don't feel
#abortion should be used after implantation because (basically) it kills
#a potential person.  BUT I can't just say to my patient "Too bad, you'll
#have to go to a strange doctor if you want to have an abortion because
#doing that for you would make me feel all icky inside."  Or can I?
#Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
#
#Any comments on that?  I'd really appreciate some.

I'm assuming that you want to go into OB/GYN, or that you
want to be a good old fashioned G.P....

I can't be your conscience, of course, but I can tell you what
I would do.  I'd ask myself if I were hurting the patient by
refusing to perform an abortion or not.  Some people are
frightened by doctors - one of your patients might not be
able to face making an appointment with another physician.
Also, if there are no other doctors in the area, or none 
who will perform abortions, you might be the woman's only
hope for aid.  (I have noticed that older doctors who saw 
the results of unsafe, illegal abortions tend to be more 
willing to do the procedures themselves than are younger 
doctors who have not seen such horrors.  I hope that you
never have to face the worst possible outcome - that
you deny a woman's request and she seeks help from a
butcher or attempts to self-abort.  I recommend learning
how to detect such desperation.)

I think that the best way out of your problem is to do 
everything that you can to make sure that abortion remains
legal, and that doctors who do not share your feelings
are able to perform abortions without harassment.  You can
also make sure that you educate your patients on the
most effective methods of birth control available.  Try
to do all you can to make sure that you aren't someone's
only hope.

(I tried to put aside my feelings here - I hope it helps.)

Susan


Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: dsh@zeus.csc.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger)
Subject: Re: Abortion:  My Views
Organization: North Carolina State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 21:12:45 GMT

In article <lach7lINN577@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> 
emarsh@hernes-sun.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Marsh) writes:

>dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:

>>emarsh@hernes-sun.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Marsh) writes:

>>>dsh@odin.ece.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:

>>>>Eric_Gorr@coglab_psych.uoregon.edu (Eric gorr) writes:

>>>>> Legislated morality doesn't work.  

>>>> Then are you against legislating in the areas of homicide, 
>>>> rape, and theft?

>>> These are not necessairly moral issues.

>> If homicide, rape, and theft laws are not based upon morality,
>> then what are they based upon? 

> They are based on the need to restrict certain behavior in order to
> improve the functioning of the society. This is not a moral issue,
> it is a social issue.

So homicide, rape, and theft are acceptable in specific instances where 
they would improve the functioning of "society"?  

>Eric


Doug Holtsinger

      "My logic is based on ... a religious perspective which says
 that personhood begins at birth (actually a month after birth if
 we want to be precise)..."
   -- Gloria Feldt,
      chief executive, Planned Parenthood of Central and Northern Arizona

  "I see nothing extreme or reprehensible about this statement."
    -- garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) <BtnDAw.Iwo.2@cs.cmu.edu>
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,rec.music.misc
From: dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan King)
Subject: Re: "Drain You" by Nirvana
Organization: Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation Facility NASA
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 23:38:18 GMT
Reply-To: dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan King)


In article <1992Aug23.235433.2161@brandonu.ca> mcbeanb@brandonu.ca writes:

>Does anyone know all the lyrics to this Nirvana song which
>appears as the second song on the second side of "Nevermind"?

I tried to play the second side on this disc, but no luck.
I did give listening to the lyrics to Drain You here at work a shot.
Let me warn others who may try this, "Don't, I mean don't try to 
interpret Kurt Cobains lyrics while at work."  It can destroy 
your will to work.  Only try this in the privacy of your own 
home.

>All I know is something like "one baby said to another because you're
>lucky...." and "You've taught me all about abortion that I know..."

I could only get as far as the first few lines.  It sounded to me like:
One baby to another says, "I'm lucky to met you"
"I don't care what you think you ask it is about me"
 
Okay its not much.  I have some good headphones at home and I'll give 
it a shot there.  I haven't heard anything about abortion, but hey
Kurt don't make it easy to understand.

>Anyone know, or is everybody as clueless as I am?

When it comes to Nirvana lyrics, we are all clueless.  Hopefully
I'll have more information tomorrow after using good headphones.

Dan King
Xref: sparky talk.abortion:33472 alt.flame:12334
From: trashman@crud.mn.org (Barry Schwartz)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.flame
Subject: Re: And Now, You're A Coatrack!! Was: without even being asked ....
Date: 26 Aug 92 00:38:00 GMT
Organization: TSAKC-TC

In article <1992Aug15.224854.14033@csus.edu>
        chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney) writes:

]===============================================================================
]Question: If you don't have truck bombs and thousands of fanatics to
]	  sacrifice their lives and drive them, how do you scare a 
]	  nation into giving in to your demands?
]
]Answer:   Buy coat hangers and encourage women to kill themselves
]	  with them and call yourself "pro-choice".
]===============================================================================

It is a shame to lose one's mind.


--
Barry Schwartz        trashman@crud.mn.org
From: regard@sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Should abortionists be allowed to purposely kill viable fetu
Date: 1 Sep 1992 13:26:27 -0700
Organization: Hewlett Packard, San Diego Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpsdde.sdd.hp.com
Keywords: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)

In article <1992Sep1.150941.28459@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> smgarvin@nyx.cs.du.edu (susan garvin) writes:
>Why stop there, Dan?  You can combine the best of Nyikos and
>DOD's worlds by having the doctor use a BIG RUSTY NAIL to
>perform the procedure.

Yeah, AFTER he misleads her purposefully on the point of the procedure,
the relative risks, and denudes all libraries within a 400 mile radius
of "Aborted Women - Silent No More.".

Adrienne Regard

Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity
From: bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com (J H Woodyatt)
Subject: Re: Two pretentious pseudo-intellectuals lock horns (was Re: Observations)
Reply-To: bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com
Organization: Abiogenesis 4 Less
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 22:22:29 GMT

dsh@zeus.csc.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
# Are men actually going around impregnanting women against their 
# will so that they can coerce women into marrying them?  How awful!  
# You should call the police and have these men arrested at once!

Guess again.  It ain't illegal for a man to impregnate a woman against
her will, if he can do it with her consent to sex.

Maybe you think it should be?


-- 
J H Woodyatt (a.k.a. Dr. Strychnine)
Space Systems/Loral

"there's a lot going on that you miss. nothing soft about THESE
machines. mean, timeless, mean, purposeful, crammed with meaning."
                                                  -- Andrew Palfreyman
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: lefty@apple.com (Lefty)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Don't inhale (was Re: Life at conception...)
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:37:50 GMT
Followup-To: talk.abortion
Organization: Our Lady of Heavy Artillery

In article <1992Aug25.002241.11735@csus.edu>, chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu
(Stephen A Chaney) wrote:
> 
> And besides, Siamese Twins rely entirely on the other's organs - most
> particularly, the ones they're sharing - in order to live, 24 hours a day,
> for several decades. Yet it isn't legal to separate them when one will die.

This statement is not correct.

--
Lefty (lefty@apple.com)
C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin)
Subject: Re: 18 year old comparison of US abortion policy with 101 other nations
Keywords: From: decay@
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 03:52:10 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.224316.10304@ncsu.edu> dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:

#  "The Supreme Court's Wade decision moved far ahead of prevailing world
#   opinion on this subject.  Abortion on demand was promulgated here in
#   1973.  

First, DOD shows why he chose this author and this dated text -
he wanted support for his erroneous interpretation of Roe, no
matter how biased that support might be.

#   When compared to the abortion policies of 101 other nations
#   in 1974, it becomes clear that very few countries had so fully
#   legalized abortion.  Listed below are the therapeutic and social
#   indications (if any) allowed in these countries in 1974:

Why do you find this relevant, DOD?  

Do you just hate it when the U.S. is a trendsetter, or what?  Would
you rather that the country waited until all other nations adopt
new laws?

[DOD's numbers deleted.  Until I doublecheck them, I'm not
repeating them.]

Susan
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity
From: nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos)
Subject: Re: THIRD TRIMESTER ABORTIONS
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:18:38 GMT

In <1992Aug24.212415.16597@menudo.uh.edu> HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.) writes:

>In <1992Aug24.192619.23063@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu writes:

>>  It you agree that all
>> adult women, before fetal viability, have a right to an abortion,
>> I will agree to oppose third trimester abortions.  Any takers?  I
>> didn't think so.

>  Wrong, RVW breath!  You're on.  That is, in fact, exactly what I
>support.  Now, please start supporting a ban on 3rd trimester abortions.

Uh-oh.  Looks like Miller and Tiller aren't as far apart as I thought
they were.  

For those who haven't been following my posts too closely: "Killer
Tiller" as the Operation Rescue people call him, is the Wichita
abortionist who is one of the three in the country who still do
3rd trimester abortions in non-life-threatening cases.

BTW, does anyone know who the other two are?

>Jammer Jim Miller
From: smezias@option.GBA.NYU.EDU (Stephen J. Mezias)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Pro-Choice Challenge  (WAS THIRD TRIMESTER ABORTIONS)
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:53:54 GMT
Organization: NYU Stern School of Business

Newborn infants are entitled to full protection under the law last
time I checked.  For ethical reasons, I personally have no problem
with this aspect of the status quo.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Subject: NO, JOHN! IT'S NOT YOUR DECISION!  NOT EVER!
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 21:15:09 GMT


   John Stevens has claimed that if a pregnant woman got that way
because of him,..."it IS partially my decision."  WRONG!  A woman
does NOT relinquish her self-sovereignty, just because YOU want a
kid.  The woman, even if she is your wife,  even if she AGRRED to
have a baby with you, has the right to change her mind.  If it is
not to your liking, get a divorce, and marry someone else.  There
is no way that any woman can ethically be forced to bear for you,
or me, or any other man.  The way God divided up reproduction may
be lopsided, but that's the way it is.  A man and a woman dance a
horizontal cha-cha for a matter of minutes, and for the next nine
months, the man is a SPECTATOR.  He has no biological effect on a
process that may result in HIS child.  That's how God created us.
And no law can change it.  If a woman decides to not have a baby,
no force on earth can make her do it.  If the anti-abortion folks
get their way, the woman may die terminating the pregnancy, and I
will fight to make sure that this NEVER happens again.
-- 
   "We're going to have the best educated American people in the
world."                              Dan Quayle - Sept. 21, 1988
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.clinton
From: nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos)
Subject: Re: The myth of "unrestricted abortion on demand throughout pregnancy"
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date: 28 Aug 92 23:26:04 GMT

In <1992Aug25.051827.13902@watson.ibm.com> Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com> writes:

>In  <1992Aug24.223701.21380@ncsu.edu>  dsh@zeus.csc.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
>> In article <1992Aug24.213446.40811@watson.ibm.com>
>> margoli@watson.ibm.com writes:
>>
>> >dsh@odin.ece.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
>>
>> >> margoli@watson.IBM.com writes:
>>
>> >>>dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
>It's not possible in the U.S.A. to get an abortion in the third trimester
>for other than serious health reasons.

"Killer" Tiller of Wichita says he will do them when the fetus is
deformed (regardless of how healthy the woman is) without spelling
out what "deformed" means.  Luhra Tivis says she saw a "very
high percentage" that were not deformed at all.

Does anyone know the names and/or locations of the other two
3rd semester abortionists, and what their stated/actual
policies are?
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Pro-Choice Challenge  (WAS THIRD TRIMESTER ABORTIONS)
From: garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 00:24:28 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Keywords: From: decay@

In article <1992Aug30.231850.16762@ncsu.edu> dsh@odin.ece.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
#In article <BtqG7r.J43.2@cs.cmu.edu> 
#garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) writes:
##dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
#
###garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) writes:
#
####dsh@csl36h.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
#
##### You miss the point Ms. Garvin.  When you vigorously denounce the 
##### extremists on the pro-life side and try to ignore the extremists 
##### on the pro-choice side such as Mr. Loomis, it makes you look a 
##### little hypocritical.  
#
#### No, you miss the point, Holtsinger.  Did you denounce Buchanan's
#### speech or didn't you?
#
### No, I didn't see Buchanan's speech.  But then again, I haven't
### denounced any of the extremists in the Democratic party.  

Where's the included text, DOD?  Why did you delete the proof
that you have done this?  

[text deleted - I want to see if DOD can admit that he lied here.]

## "I am not "pro-life", and I don't normally express substantial disagreement 
## with pro-lifers in my posts because I know pro-aborts like you will gloat 
## over it.  I do sometimes send e-mail to pro-lifers when I disagree with 
## their views."
#
#Ms. Garvin, I'm not "gloating" over your disagreement with Michael
#Loomis.  I'm commending you on your display of consistency. 

Nice double standard, DOD.

[text deleted]

Susan



Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos)
Subject: Re: Nyikos Goes Under (WAS Re: THIRD TRIMESTER ABORTIONS)
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date: 27 Aug 92 23:12:05 GMT

In <1992Aug27.161752.12975@advtech.uswest.com> steven@jaynes ( Steve Novak) writes:

>> = (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>>> = (James G Keegan Jr) writes:

>>>do you have special powers to do this or do you think
>>>any male has the power to barter away the rights of all
>>>females?

>>No, only Harry Blackmun and the six justices whom he either
>>conned or was in cahoots with back in '73.

>"Conned".  He conned SIX JUSTICES?  My, Blackmun would be amused at
>the power you give him due to your mindless hatred of him.

>>They bartered away the rights of women vis-a-vis abortionists.

><*knock* *knock*>  HelLO!  McNyikos!! Anybody home?  

I understood the allusion to Doug Holtsinger below, but whom does
this "Mc" allude to?

>Exactly which rights have women LOST due to Roe v Wade?  Are you
>lying through your teeth...AGAIN, Doug Jr.?

I'm going to have to post some of the relevant parts of COERCED
ABORTION again.  One right that was lost was the right to have
an abortionist prosecuted for felony sexual battery if he or she
 goes on with an abortion after a woman changes
her mind and wants out.

The outrage that was committed on my friend would be a felony
punishable by thirty (30) years in jail were it not for the 
common understanding, in the wake of Roe v. Wade and Doe v. Bolton,
that abortion is a "medical" act.

As Bernard Nathanson says, abortion is no more a medical issue because
doctors do it than is capital punishment a medical issue just because
it is sometimes done by doctors administering lethal injections. 
But Blackmun and the other six saw it differently.

[Some tasteless comments deleted.]
From: gjh@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Galen J. Hekhuis)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Another good reason not to vote for Bush
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:46:29 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia Health Sciences Center

It's your fault CJ, do something --

--
       hang gliding mailing list: hang-gliding-request@virginia.edu 
     Galen Hekhuis  UVa Health Sci Ctr (804)982-1646 gjh@virginia.edu
           Remember, behind most silver linings is a cloud...
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Subject: Re: A DIRECT QUESTION FOR HOLTSINGER...
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 19:25:05 GMT


   Dougie, quit chickening out on answering a direct question, on
the pretext that your words would be misrepresented by others.  I
have given you the chance to express yourself, in your own words.
So don't blame others for your lack of courage.  The only one who
can speak for you is you.  The only problem that you have to fret
about is getting caught lying.  Nobody can take away your chances
to express yourself.  Be as explicit as you want.  You are trying
to weasel out of this by blaming others.  It won't work.  It just
makes you look cowardly.
-- 
   "We're going to have the best educated American people in the
world."                              Dan Quayle - Sept. 21, 1988
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity
From: Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Observations
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1992 23:17:20 GMT
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: margoli@watson.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In  <Btx4G6.E2y@cs.psu.edu>  beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver) writes:
> In article <1992Sep01.191402.16457@watson.ibm.com> margoli@watson.ibm.com writes
>
> >And it's not enforcing beliefs, any more than the killing of cattle
> >being legal enforcing beliefs on those believe cattle to be holy.
> >They are still free to believe any way they like; what they are not free
> >to do is act on those beliefs in such a way as to violate the rights
> >of other people.
>
> Interesting.  So human fetuses are roughly equivalent to cattle.

Perhaps you should have someone explain the concept of an analogy to you.
I could also say that it's not enforcing beliefs any more than the fact
that blood transfusions are legal enforces beliefs on those whose
religion prohibits them.  This is not saying that a fetus is roughly
equivalent to a pint of blood.

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.clinton
From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Subject: Re: Other Flip-Floppers on abortion
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organizatoin
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 01:53:12 GMT

In article <BtJzC0.FL2@newcastle.ac.uk> Chris.Holt@newcastle.ac.uk (Chris Holt) writes:
>chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney) writes:
>>That and few Americans currently oppose parental consent laws...
>
>Few Americans believe that a father could rape a 13 year old daughter,
>and that both parents would then refuse to allow an abortion.  Is
>this the kind of parental consent you mean?

If Holt had been paying attention AND was interested in the discussion,
he'd know that the laws under discussion have a judicial bypass provision.
The daughter gets to decide whom to ask.

However, Holt is just looking for a cheap shot, so he took it.

-andy
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos)
Subject: Re: "only 3 doctors ... perform third trimester abortions"
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date: 31 Aug 92 18:13:53 GMT

In <1992Aug30.035846.40919@watson.ibm.com> Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com> writes:

>In  <1992Aug29.180604.13845@ncsu.edu>  dsh@odin.ece.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
>>
>> a) Mr. Margolis claims that only three doctors in the United
>>    States perform third trimester abortions, but 60 Minutes
>>    claims that only three doctors specialize in late-term
>>    abortions.

>>  I may write to 60 Minutes to ask
>> them for a source.  It doesn't appear that Mr. Margolis is
>> willing to track down the source.

>That's right - I'm not.  As far as I know, it's true.  If you can
>list more doctors that perform third tri abortions,

"List more doctors?"  I'm still looking for someone to complete 
the list of three.

So far there is George Tiller of Wichita, Kansas.  Who and where are
the other two?

Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: gjh@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Galen J. Hekhuis)
Subject: Re: Another fantastic reason to vote for Bush
Organization: University of Virginia Health Sciences Center
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 11:51:18 GMT

In article <kytyfza@rpi.edu> cookc@aix.rpi.edu (rocker) writes:
}dsh@odin.ece.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:

}>The next-of-kin of an organ donor acts in the best interests
}>of the deceased when they give permission to transplant organs.

}Ummmm, Holtsinger, the deceased HAS no "best interests".

Wait a minuite!  I speak for the dead.  In this case, they have 
instructed me to position themselves as far from Mr. Holtsinger
as possible.  While they do not entirely embrace rocker (deadly
embrace?) they would much, much rather she speak for them than
have any kind of representation made about them by Mr.
Holtsinger.  The dead do have one request, and that is 
"Don't Cremate Us!"  They are expected to announce a stand on 
organ transplants later this week...

--
       hang gliding mailing list: hang-gliding-request@virginia.edu 
     Galen Hekhuis  UVa Health Sci Ctr (804)982-1646 gjh@virginia.edu
           Remember, behind most silver linings is a cloud...
Newsgroups: talk.abortion