HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thatcher@vcd.hp.com (Garen Thatcher)
Subject: Snowboarders Suck
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:22:32 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard VCD
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Just wanted to post a few of my own notes here on the subject and 
would appreciate some comments back from the "Snowboarders" here.

Let me preface this with the fact that I have skied for about 20 years
after growing up in Utah and working at Sundance and Alta in various
ventures.

I have been known to badmouth(under my breath) snowboarders.

Reasons:

1. I am really bothered by what a group of guys on snowboards can
   do to a hill that is just getting some good close moguls forming
   on it. Since the average turn is much more broad and scoops out much
   more snow, it ends up wiping out the hill for the skier. 

   I like the solution of a few years ago where the snowboarders were
   given certain areas of the hill to ski on.

2. Often times the comment is made that lots of people move from skiing
   to a snowboard but very seldom back. This is a very stupid line of
   reasoning to say the one is better than the other. At what level is
   the person when he gave up skiing? An example of this is me at the 
   ocean. I tried surfing a few times and found it very hard and then
   tried a boogie board. Well it was much easier and I could have
   gotten very attached to the sport. Does this mean that boogie boarding
   is better than surfing. Well ask a surfer and I think he would like
   to kill all boogie boarder, wind surfers, jet skiers out there. Surfing
   was there when it all began. While there are examples of very good skiers
   going over to "shredding", I imagine that it is mostly beginner skiers 
   who were not progressing at the pace that they wanted. 

3. You mention that since the sport is attracting more and more people
   that it must be a good thing. Remember that the MAIN reason that the
   resorts began allowing on in the first place is that the owners of
   these places want to make as much money as they possibly can. If, by 
   allowing boarders on the mountain they get another 100 boarders *
   $30 per ticket + 100 * $5 lunch they get $3500 dollars per day. That 
   money is important to these people. GREED is what drives this and
   most sports. Your line of reasoning is flawed. BOING-- Try again.

Thats all for now.
Let me state that the skiers are at fault here as well. Just be aware
that it takes a VERY long time for attitudes and percetions to change.
Someone mentioned that boarding has been around for 10 years. This 
is not very long when compared to how long sking has been around. Doesn't
even compare. 

I also hope we can stop all the flaming on both sides of the issue here.
All it does is make life more frustating for all of us when we are on 
the slopes.


Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: launce@medusa.med.utah.edu (Tri-Ungulate)
Subject: Re: ? about tele bindings on downhill boards
Organization: Trifurcate-Hooved Ruminant Surveyors, Inc.
Date: 11 Dec 92 15:46:56

In article <1992Dec10.012756.19916@mercury.cair.du.edu> mhartzel@melbourne.cba.du.edu (Mark_Hartzell) writes:
>	   I read various comments in rec.skiing this past fall about 3-pin  
>   bindings on downhill(alpine) skiis.  I recently skimmed an article about  
>   the newest alpine slalom skiis, and was wondering how the would react  
>   telemarking. They would seem to be a great all around ski, except for  
>   cruising. 

Yeah, but how often do you do high-speed cruising on tele-skis anyway?
I mean, sure, it's *possible*, but if you want groomed speeders, you
might as well get a 220cm GS alpine setup. ;-).
 
>   But would a telemarker really be able to flex the ski enough in  
>   a turn.  My question is would one use the ski's full potential. 

My new tele setup is pretty stiff, especially the tails (K2 KVC comp).
Doesn't bother me at all, and I like the responsiveness, just so long
as I'm paying attention.  My other setup is softer (Dyn. Vert.), and I
like it as well.  As for the ski's "full potential", I'm a little
puzzled at what you expect.  I mean, I'm probably not good (or will
ever be good) enough to max out a ski's "full potential" be it on pins
or locked in - I just look for something that corresponds to my needs
& desires in a ski. In my case (for tele skiing) light weight, good
sidecut and a degree of soft flex helps.  The "extreme" skis on the
market (GS flex, SL, sidecut) are good candidates.

>   Also, if I decide to do this ski/binding set-up, would outdoor  
>   shops know how to mount them?

If they can do it on "real" tele-skis, they can do it on alpine skis. 
Got mine mounted for $7, including filling in the old screwholes.

Sorry if this news is just a rehash of my post a couple weeks ago. I
realize I'm wasting valuable bandwidth ;-) that would be better
utilized by a discussion of whether snowboarders suck or whether jesus
really loves you or not :-).
  
| _, launce gouw * internet: launce@medusa.med.utah.edu * ooniversity of ootah 
|(_) medical center * department of human genetics *   palace of the brine
___) we apologise for the previous opinions. those responsible have been sacked




















Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: launce@medusa.med.utah.edu (Tri-Ungulate)
Subject: Re: Park City - Snowboarding
Organization: Trifurcate-Hooved Ruminant Surveyors, Inc.
Date: 14 Dec 92 17:18:47

In article <1992Dec14.182230.17719@pts1.pts.mot.com> ep502ca@pts.mot.com (CHARLES ACTOR X2922 P7091) writes:
>	Where in the Park City area are snowboards allowed?

ParkWest. Further afield, there is Brighton, Solitude and the Bird,
Powder Mtn and Snowbasin.

>	And what are the conditions like?

Pretty good these days. PW is a fine resort when there's snow, and
much cheaper than PC or DV. Unlike PC and DV, PW *encourages*
boarders, and they even have a halfpipe for the waaay coool shredders.
Check ahead for actual snowdepth figures.

| _, launce gouw * internet: launce@medusa.med.utah.edu * ooniversity of ootah 
|(_) medical center * department of human genetics *   palace of the brine
___) we apologise for the previous opinions. those responsible have been sacked






















Newsgroups: rec.skiing,uwisc.general,uwisc.forsale,wi.general,wi.forsale
From: cargille@calypso.cs.wisc.edu (Allan Cargille)
Subject: New Year's Eve "Ski, Steak, and Party" fundraiser at Tyrol Basin
Followup-To: uwisc.forum
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences
Distribution: wi
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:22:48 GMT


Hi, I wanted to announce an event for a good cause that some people
may be interested in.

Tyrol Basin is a downhill skiing place about 30 minutes southwest of
Madison.  They hold an annual New Year's Eve "Steak, Ski, and Party"
fundraiser to support the ski patrol.  The ski patrol is a volunteer,
non-profit, tax-deductible organization to provide emergency first aid
services and help out in some other ways.  Money raised is used to
purchase medical supplies, radios, and other equipment, and to maintain
and improve the first aid room.  This is our patrol's only public
fund-raising event.

For skiers, the price is $26 per person, which includes 

    * lift ticket from 6 pm to 11:30 pm
    * Steak dinner (steak, baked potato, veggie, roll, salad, & dessert)
    * Music with live DJ 9 pm to 1 am
    * Party favors and door prizes

Non-skiers are also welcome, at a discounted price of $16 per person.

You can get more information or make reservations by calling (608)
437-4135 (hours are 10 am to 5 pm).  MC/Visa accepted.  When you
reserve, you have to tell them if you'd like to eat at 6:30, 8:00, or
9:30 pm.

I believe that part of the price should be tax-deductible (the part
that goes to fund the patrol).  You can check on that when you call.

If you read this far, let me encourage you all *not* to drink and
drive on New Years.  Use designated drivers or a cab if you plan to
drink alcohol.

Have fun,

allan

Disclaimer:  I have no commercial relationship with Tyrol Basin.  I'm
             a member of the ski patrol there.

PS:  I've directed follow-up postings to uwisc.forum.
Newsgroups: rec.skiing,rec.backcountry
From: launce@medusa.med.utah.edu (Tri-Ungulate)
Subject: Re: Cable binding modification for dual tension 
Organization: Trifurcate-Hooved Ruminant Surveyors, Inc.
Date: 17 Dec 92 11:39:32

In article <1992Dec17.011857.16280@colorado.edu> parsavan@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Dara Parsavand) writes:

>   I'm thinking of purchasing a cable binding for a set of Tua Escapes with
>   Asolo Snowpine boots.  My only reservation is the difficulty of changing
>   the cable tension to optimize for kick and glide and tele. 

I just got a setup from Voile that uses *both* 3-pin *and* cable.
Basically it is a regular 3-pin binding w/bail, and a "cable" of
coiled spring/metal clip throw hooked onto the toepiece.  The "cable"
part is removable, so when I'm hiking or gliding or mellow descents, I
can take it off.  For steeper stuff, I can hook it back on for a more
controlled descent.  It's also nice due to the redundancy factor, as
if one system fails, there's always the other to hold your boot in.

Problems with the initial runs of these bindings were resolved last
year, and in any case, Voile is really good about replacing defective
stuff.  It should cost about $60 ($30 less than the Rivas on my other
skis)  REI carries it (at least they do here in SLC).  Otherwise, you
can contact Voile at:

	Voile Mfg. 
 	2636S 2700W
	Salt Lake City, UT

	(801) 973-8622

ObDisclaimer: Dont' have any connection with Voile except as a happy
customer and fellow resident of Ootah.  
         
> dara			   was a waxless fan until my base lost half its
> parsavan@prony.colorado    kick in 3 years-now its wax with kicker skins
>			      if necessary.

| _, launce gouw * internet: launce@medusa.med.utah.edu * ooniversity of ootah 
|(_) medical center * department of human genetics *   palace of the brine
___) we apologise for the previous opinions. those responsible have been sacked
From: mctmap@dct.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re:Skiing in NZ
Date: 10 Dec 92 20:58:27 GMT
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology

Hi.....
Re: The request for info on skiing in NZ.  I was there for about 18 months,
and lived on Mount Ruapehu, in the middle of the North Island.  Ruapehu
("Roo-A-PAY-hoo") is home to two ski areas.  Turoa is the smaller of the two,
and I never skied there, but Whakapapa (Fakkapapa) is without doubt the
steepest and deepest!  I got about forty days decent skiing in 1990, and the
seasons have been improving since then.  There's more snow in the South Island
than the North.

There's a NZ consulate/touristy place in LA which could give you the blurb you
need.  NZ skiing is still a well kept secret......hope you get into it

Ski Your Heart Out

Morag
MCTMAP
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: georgew@hspice.portal.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re: N.Tahoe Conditions, etc. ?
Organization: Meta - Software
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 02:08:31 GMT

In article <1gan0oINNh1d@agate.berkeley.edu> ellen@opua.Berkeley.EDU (Ellen M. Sentovich) writes:

>Glen, I know you're the expert, BUT...  Squaw has definitely closed
>the mountain run during periods of lean snow (e.g., end of February
>1991), so they could save the snow for the weekend crowds.  This is
>an extreme case, and who really cares about the mountain run (just
>treat the beginners like moving gates!), but I have experienced other
>instances like that mentioned in Doug's message.
>
>After heavy snow, it takes them a while to avalanche blast and get
>all the lifts/runs open.  They manage to get through this routine much
>more quickly on the weekends than on the weekdays.  I have been there
>several times after a storm on a weekday when the Chief never did open -
>but they manage to get it open on the weekends.  I have been there many
>times on weekdays when Olympic Lady never opened (and heavy snow was
>not the reason).  The lift tickets cost the same on the weekdays, but the
>mountain certainly isn't as open as it is on the weekends.
>
>Is there anything besides Palisades that has frequently been open
>weekdays but not weekends?  I assume they close it on the weekends so
>the infrequently-skiing tourons don't do damage to themselves...

     Could also be they just have more staff available on weekends, since
they know they're going to be more crowded.  (Just my guess, as I don't
really know Squaw [yet:-]).

							George

-- 
----
George J Wu,  Superior Maker of Technical Snafus,  georgew@metasw.com
Meta-Software,  1300 White Oaks Road,  Campbell, CA 95008,  (408) 369-5400
Never be the first to believe.  Never be the last to deceive.  ---  Chess
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: grant@clarinet.com (Grant Robinson)
Subject: Re: Learn on short or long skis?
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:48:48 GMT

In article <djm.723860511@phobos> djm@kbs.citri.edu.au (David Mills) writes:
>>In article <1fo1cqINNkiu@skeena.ucs.ubc.ca> koichi@unixg.ubc.ca (Koichi J Kishimoto) writes:
>
>>-Long or short skis for learning?-
>

Rule #1.  Take all advice from the net with a grain of salt (or don't take
it at all), my post included.

>The first category.  The shorter the skis, the easier they are to turn.  This
>applies to all levels and types of skiing.  

But not all skis.  This generalization is simply not true.  There are
countless examples of longer skis which turn more easily than shorter skis,
without going into the gory details, it's usually newer skis vs. older skis
(new technology, combination of sidecut, flex and materials), or slalom vs
GS skis.

>Unless you ski faster than 40-60kmh most of the time, you will not need a ski
>longer than 180cm.

I ski mostly bumps and steeps, and the only time I hit those speeds is
generally when I'm free-falling.  I ski 200's. I'd ski 207's if I didn't
spend so much time in the bumps.

Where does the 180 number come from?

>The mistake the public makes is that because a very good skier uses longer
>skis (and lets face it most people would prefer to be thought of as a good
>skier) then if I use longer skis it must be a sign that I am a good skier.

I've only ever noticed this trait in more advanced skiers and racers, never
the average skier or general public.  That's only one data point however.

>WRONG!!!  It will inhibit your progress dramatically if your skis are too
>long.  It's better to err on the side of too short.

It's better to be in the right ballpark in the first place, if you are an
extra 5 cm. longer or shorter won't make an earth-shattering difference.

Factors to consider in choosing length of ski:

	1) your weight
	2) ability (and type of skiing you intend to do)
	3) type of ski

Some companies don't even sell skis by length anymore (directly anyways).

It's impossible to say 185's are too long or short without knowing more,
but the fact that your instructor was alarmed probably should give reason for
pause, provided he's not also trying to sell you skis.  He should know all
of the above and more.

For a second and third opinion, go to a couple of ski shops, and tell them
all of the above mentioned factors, and see what they recommend.  Don't
express any intimidation/desire for longer/shorter skis, because as
salespeople, they will let this bias their recommendations.  Between a few
such opinions, and that of your instructor, you should be able to come to
some kind of consensus.
-- 
Grant Robinson -- ClariNet Communications Corp, Sunnyvale, CA (408)-296-0366
From: andyt@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Andy Teetzel)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 00:32:53 GMT
Subject: Wanted: Three Sisters suggestions
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD MWTD)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing

I'm going to drag my tele-boards up to the Three Sisters (Oregon) this 
weekend. Can anyone suggest some sweet places to earn my turns? 

(Confidentiallity assured)



Andy Teetzel           |  andyt@hpmwtd.hp.com       | 
Hewlett-Packard        |                            |  
Microwave Tech. Div.   |  -Disclaimer, standard,    |  
Santa Rosa, CA         |   one each                 |
                       |                            |
From: ranck@joesbar.cc.vt.edu (Wm. L. Ranck)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Snowshoe info???
Date: 11 Dec 92 20:28:26 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

kpjone01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu wrote:
: Anyone been to Snowshoe this year?  If so, have you noticed any major 
: differences between the resort since last year?  Rumor has it that 
: the mountain is now totally owned by Snowshoe and the other resort has been
: bought out.  

Yes, Snowshoe has combined with the other area (can't remember the name) and
they are using a single lift ticket from what I hear.  The local TV weather
guy went to Snowshow last weekend and reported something like 1-1/2 feet of
new snow when everyone else got 6 inches or so.  They've been getting more
snow all this week.  I haven't been there so I can't report on operations.
But, they are getting a lot of snow.
--

*******************************************************************************
* Bill Ranck                                          ranck@joesbar.cc.vt.edu *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: cmacfarl@world.std.com (Craig Macfarlane)
Subject: Intro to XC Ski article needed
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:38:17 GMT

	I'm looking for some help in the form of an intro to XC skiing
article.  The article would appear in New England Cyclist, a monthly
publication on bicycling in the region.

	If you are interested in helping people get into XC Skiing give
me a call or email me.

Thanks!
Craig
617-527-BIKE
cmacfarl@world.std.com
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: davis@lugg.utah.edu (Darrell R. Davis)
Subject: Re: Powder
Organization: College of Science, University of Utah
Date: 17 Dec 92 10:59:06


on Thu, 17 Dec 92 08:49:15 GMT,
>How does one ski the fresh powder, or the used powder?

>> This is covered in the FAQ.
>> Don't.  Stand back.
>> Instead call over myself, Baker, certain guys in CO and UT, etc. and we
>> will clear out all that nasty powder for you.  You can tell us, we are the
>> guys with powder cords, poles which double as probes, carry beepers, shovels,
>> and occasionally 106 mm recoilless rounds....  Well I have a cold right now
>> so you have to get Baker or one of the other guys.
>> A dirty job, but someone has to do it.


"Yes Indy, powder snow.  Very dangerous.  I go first."


--------------------------------------------------------------
 
 Darrell R. Davis 
 Medicinal Chemistry 
 University of Utah 
  
--------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: senator@neocad.com (Bill Armstrong)
Subject: Re: Snowboarders Suck
Organization: NeoCAD, Inc.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:53:23 GMT

Garen Thatcher writes:

> 1. I'm really bothered by what a group of guys on snowboards can do to a
>    hill that is just getting some good close moguls forming on it.

And I'm bothered by people who board or ski on runs which are beyond
their respective abilities. You generalize that snowboarders trash any 
mogul run. Wrong. I have witnessed many boarders not trash a mogul run
no more than the skiers on it. It really depends if they are geting in over
their head, regardless of ski or board use.

> I like the solution of a few years ago where the snowboarders were
> given certain areas of the hill to ski on.
                                     ^^^

Segregration. No. If you pay, you play. If a particular mountain is not
suited for boarding (tight trails, etc.) they might consider banning them.
I think your idea is a bit snobbish.

> While there are examples of very good skiers going over to shredding,
> I imagine that it is mostly beginner skiers who were not progressing
> at the pace they wanted.

Very, Very rash generalization. I really don't think you know very many
snowboarders. Don't be afraid, talk to some. If don't like the first one,
try another. They/we may defy your biased perception.


> 3. You mention that since the sport is attracting more and more people
>    that it must be a good thing. <stuff deleted about greed being the
>    driving factor in allowing boarders on mountains> ..........

More people board because it is an alternative, a challenge, fun and
any other of a million reasons. Whether the growth of any sport is a
"good thing" is debatable. Business is Business, You make money, the more
the better. Resorts allow boarders for financial reasons. They also
evaluate the impact of the decision. You seem like the kind of person who
would avoid resorts which allow boarders. The resorts seem to think that
line of thinking is in the minority. 

Right, shredders, shred for greed and the fact that resorts allow this
perpetuates shredding, hence greed. Greed is just the exploitation, not
the driving force. Your losing your grip.


> Just be aware that it takes a VERY long time for attitudes and
> perceptions to change.

In my opinion, your attitude and misguided perceptions are the problem. 

BTW - I'm a skier first, occasional snowboarder, new tele-marker second.

You tell people to stop flaming after a post like that. I think not.

-- Bill Armstrong
-- senator@neocad.com
-- 

Bill Armstrong	senator@neocad.com
NeoCAD, Inc.	2585 Central Avenue, Boulder, CO 80301
(303) 442-9121
From: dianeho@hpdstma.ptp.hp.com (Diane Ho Binder)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Sugarbush Skiing
Date: 17 Dec 1992 23:55:39 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpdstma.ptp.hp.com

Hi,
   I'll be skiing at Sugarbush (Vermont) in the weekend of 1/22.  I wonder
   whether any netters who have been there could tell me more about the place.
   What is the percentage of ski trails for each class: novice, intermediate,
   and advanced?   Will there be lots of powder skiing during that time
   of the year?   How about moguls skiing?   Is the parking in the
   weekend terrible?  Any info you can think of (except lodging) would
   be very much appreciated.

Diane

Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: zod@ncube.com (Operator)
Subject: Powder
Reply-To: zod@ncube.com
Organization: nCUBE CORPORATION
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:50:42 GMT

How does one ski the fresh powder, or the used powder?
My skies tend to go different directions in those powders!
At some points I even get them crossed, and result in a fall.
Should one not parallel in those conditions?


---



Captain Zod...
zod@ncube.com                                                         
                                                                      ^~
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                                                            \=======&==\===
                                                            \===========&===
From: stachura@erte.next.com (Renata Stachura)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: !!WANTED: X-Country skis for 2!!
Keywords: Cross Coutnry, X-Country, X-C
Date: 12 Dec 92 01:39:07 GMT

Does anyone know where I can get two pairs of X-Country skis cheap?

Also, where are swap meets in the Bay Area with x-country equipment?

Thanks,
Renata
renata_stachura@next.com
From: hilton@leechs.lzo.dec.com (Greg Hilton)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Ski Accomodation in Scotland???
Date: 17 Dec 92 10:08:57 GMT
Reply-To: hilton@bahtat.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Company


Hiya,


I'm thinking of popping up to Scotland for a bit of skiing.

I'd want to come up 29th DEc and leave 2nd or 3rd Jan,

There'd be five of us, we are looking for ANY accomodation
near to the Nevis range or Glencoe area, maybe Aviemore.


Any recommendations, phone numbers to ring etc?

Cheers,

Greg
Newsgroups: rec.skiing