HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: viejones@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Michael A. Jones)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: "No Wavering on Gay Soldiers"
Date: 21 Jan 93 20:12:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <=5j3jfh@rpi.edu>, buckmr@vccsouth16.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes...
>rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams) writes:
> 
> 
>>Yesterday's (01/20/93 -- Inauguration Day) New York Times
>>ran this editorial, reprinted here without permission...
> 
>>Mr. Clinton needs to proceed with his original plan to issue
>>an executive order.  He could lift the ban on homosexuals
>>immediately while granting the military time to devise new
>>policies, if needed, governing housing, gay social clubs,
>>dependents' benefits and other issues.
> 
>Cool beans! But I'm STILL curious about whether the Executive Order will cover
>anything else but the Armed Forces? I mean, the FBI and CIA still discriminate,
>don't they?
> 

As does the State Department I think?


					Mike
From: kmeyer@aero.org (Kraig R. Meyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Greeting the President (was: Clinton Gets Earful at Open House)
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:56:19 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: solarium.aero.org
In-reply-to: rodney@cub.math.oxy.edu.'s message of Sat, 23 Jan 1993 21:09:33 GMT

rodney@cub.math.oxy.edu. (Rodney Hoffman) said:
> In even a very limited sampling, I can say that we seemed to be quite
> well-represented in the crowds lined up to greet the Clintons and Gores
> at Thursday's White House Open House.

> In the short time I was listening, I heard three lesbians greet Clinton...

When I was watching CNN, they showed only 3 snipets of people greeting 
Clinton.  One of the 3 snipets was a gay man thanking him for his support
of gay rights.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| The opinions expressed above are my own and do not necessarily          |
| represent those of The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA.           |
|									  |
| Kraig R. Meyer		   	                 kmeyer@aero.org  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Last night on TV
Date: 27 Jan 93 23:13:23 GMT
Organization: BASIS International, Ltd., Albuquerque NM USA

In article <1993Jan27.154958.29918@news.cs.brandeis.edu> pratt@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>Did anyone see and have a reaction to last night's "First Person with
>Maria Shriver"? I think the title was something cheesy like "The Gay
>Nineties" with a sensational subtitle. I only saw about the last half
>and have random comments.
>[...]

I would never have watched it had my SO not turned it on.  I only caught
the last half but it seemed rather positive.  I'm sure I missed some
homophobic crap earlier in the hour but I was expecting a lot worse.
I also liked their choice of "We Will Rock You" as the logo music.

-- 
Scott Amspoker                       |    
Basis International, Albuquerque, NM |  Too bad ignorance isn't really
                                     |  bliss.  Then it could be outlawed.
scott@bbx.basis.com                  |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: chuck@ssd.kodak.com (Charles S. Collins 726-9461)
Subject: Re: Gay Ban to be lifted in 6 months
Originator: chuck@fourier
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 17:30:06 GMT


>From: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann)
>Subject: Re: Gay Ban to be lifted in 6 months
>Date: 28 Jan 93 14:42:27 GMT


>What he should do/should have done is declare a six month moratorium on
>asking recruits their sexual orientation and in drumming out service people  
>only because of their orientation.  A massive anti-harassment education program  
>needs to be worked into the military.  Extremely strict codes of conduct for  
>behavior on military conduct or in combat need to be understood and practiced  
>by ALL.  Any consensual behavior off-base is NOT the military's business.

This is EXACTLY the point.  When I listen to homophobic comments like:
"Gays wouldn't stand a chance in our platoon", my immediate reaction is:
"Well, then it's time to change the behaviors of the platoon!"

I faxed the president and offered to do my homophobia workshop for the
Joint Chiefs.  It's a solid workshop, and I'd love to see how it would
stand up against such deeply entrenched homophobia.

>I also think the March on Washington has developed new significance.  I think  
>if the march comes off as a "Bill bash" because he hasn't been able to really  
>deliver on lifting the ban yet, I think gay people are going to be perceived as  
>completely unrealistic about what the president can and can't do.  If people at  
>the MOW show strong support for President Clinton's attempts, it will show  
>cohesiveness and will to SOLVE the problems of homophobia in the society.   
>Homophobia won't go away just because the president says it's time for  
>revolutionary change.  It will diminish over time with education and a focus on  
>living in a just society.

I agree.  It's obvious our message should be directed toward Congress, the
military establishment, and the courts to end discrimination and back
the president.




-- 
Chuck Collins				Product Software Engineering
chuck@pixel.kodak.com			Eastman Kodak Company
(716)726-9461				901 Elmgrove Road
					Rochester, NY  14653-5811
From: as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Scorpii)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: MOTSS-Oriented Music, Part II
Date: 27 Jan 93 00:08:18 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <1993Jan26.214706.20154@samba.oit.unc.edu> czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (Season Marie Taylor) writes:

>In article <65-JNEWS-2.1@wonky.UUCP> ailsa@wonky.UUCP (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:



>>and the refrain from that indigo girls song i mentioned in my
>>last post on this topic starts:

>>juliet, when we made love you used to cry...

>yeah, but the song wasn't written by them...it was written by the Dire
>Straits guy.


>season


Sure, he WROTE it, but they SANG it.  You don't discount Erasure's cover of
"River Deep, Mountain High" simply because it was written for females to
sing, do you?

Drewcifer

-- 
***************************************************************************
** Andrew David Simchik, registered Scorpio ************* SCHNOPIA! *******
***************************************************************************
as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Pulped Again (was Re: Tim Chain Porn)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 11:50:57 GMT


In article <1993Jan25.164734.1064@netcom.com>
stephena@netcom.com (Stephen Arrants) rags me:

>In article <1993Jan24.073137.3165@macc.wisc.edu>
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>But at least the steel-nib pen had been invented by the time
>>I got to college.

>Yes, but you DID spend a lot of time making your own ink and
>paper.

Ho ho, but actually, that's true: I *have* spent a lot of
time making ink and paper.  Papermaking is tons of fun and
I've made some really gorgeous paper, for a beginner.  I
really know almost nothing about ink, though.  I think
everybody who really loves words should know something
first-hand about calligraphy, papermaking, and printing from
hand-set type.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Smoke in gay bars
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 00:00:36 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.052407.17366@ads.com> henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:

>cbe@unl.edu (cbe) wrote: 
>
>->For 
>->example, straight bars seem no where near as smoky as gay ones and it 
>->appears that most of the smoke in the straight bars is due to women.  
>
>i don't think you spend enough time in, uh, "straight bars."

Goodness, Henry.  I didn't know that you did.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Gaston's Song
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 02:49:10 GMT

Eventually, with a little help from a local Disney-wizard, I pinned
down the lyrics to Gaston's Song.  Compiled with a certain Omaha twink
in mind.

     Gosh, it disturbs me to see you, Gaston
     Looking so down in the dumps.
     Every guy here'd love to BE you, Gaston
     Even when taking your lumps.

     There's no man in town as admired as you,
     You're everyone's favorite guy.
     Everyone's awed and inspired by you,
     And it's not very hard to see why:

     No one's slick as Gaston,
     No one's quick as Gaston,
     No one's neck's as incredibly thick as Gaston,
     For there's no man in town half as manly:
     Perfect, a pure paragon!
     You can ask any Tom, Dick or Stanley
     And they'll tell you whose team they'd prefer to be on.

     No one's been like Gaston,
     A kingpin like Gaston,
     No one's got a swell cleft in his chin like Gaston.
     "As a specimen, yes, I'm intimidating."
     My, what a guy, that Gaston!
     Give five hurrahs, give ten hip hips,
     Gaston is the best and the rest is all drips!

     No one fights like Gaston,
     Douses lights like Gaston,
     In a wrestling match, nobody bites like Gaston!
     For there's no one as burly and brawny.
     "As you see, I've got biceps to spare."
     Not a bit of him's scraggly or scrawny.
     "That's right, and every last inch of me's covered with HAIR!"

     No one hits like Gaston,
     Matches wits like Gaston,
     In a spitting match, nobody spits like Gaston.
     "I'm especially good at expectorating." <ptui!>
     Ten points for Gaston!

     "When I was a lad, I ate four dozen eggs
      Every morning to help me get large.
      And now that I'm grown, I eat five dozen eggs
      So I'm roughly the size of a barge!"

     No one shoots like Gaston,
     Makes those beauts like Gaston,
     Then goes tromping around wearing boots like Gaston.
     "I use antlers in all of my decorating."
     My, what a guy: Gaston!
-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: allemang@lia.di.epfl.ch (Dean Allemang)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Tim Chain Porn
Date: 25 Jan 93 15:53:16 GMT
Organization: DI-LIA -- Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne
In-reply-to: msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu's message of 22 Jan 93 12:23:45 GMT


Is there something about living in French speaking places that makes
us do this?

In article <15604.2b5fa101@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Michael S. Pettersen) writes:


   "There is no reality beyond that of the senses," said Jose.  Gently
   he moved le Jojo's hand aside, and took hold of the monstrous erection
   engendered on Jojo by the imaginary Tim.  "I must experience it directly
   for myself."  He turned Jojo's stool, and pressed his mouth towards Jojo's.


Jojo placed his hand firmly on Jose's chest, and pushed him away - but
from the force, it was jojo himself who wheeled away on the casters of
his chair.  `Non, je n'y arrive pas!' gasped jojo, realizing that he
had known Jose for less than a year!  He could not meet the Portuguese
eyes, and so turned his head away, his curls tumbling demurely over
his face.  

Jose stared in amazement at the screen, and wondered how this shy
creature cowering before him could have written what he saw there.  In
his fear, jojo appeared small, and even vulnerable there on the floor.
Jose found himself taking pity upon him, as his soft eyes touched a
place deep in Jose's heart.  

They walked through the cool night, the full moon reflecting from the
Seine, the towers of Notre Dame above them.  `What are you saving
yourself for?' asked Jose, `It is time that you experience the real
world.  The screen is only a surrogate.  There are so many places to
see, so many people to do.  Let me open your eyes to a new world of
sensual pleasure.'

Jojo turned toward Jose, tears streaming down his cheeks.  `Be
gentle,' whispered Jojo.

   Jojo felt the rough stubble of Jose's dark shadowed jaw on his lips and 
   the gentle exploratory caresses of Jose's hand in his lap,
   and the bristles of his own blond moustache tangled with the jet
   black of Jose's.  Burly white arms circled a slim waist,
   and olive arms circled burly shoulders.


Another pair of lovers in Paris - the city took no notice.



Dino
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Audrey
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:23:25 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1jr4iqINNdhv@mizar.usc.edu>, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
wrote:

> Oh.  I just never think "great actress" and "Katharine Hepburn"
> at the same time.  "Great movie star", yes, but not "great
> actress".

This may be terribly subjective - and a reflection of political
prowess - but tell me, Dolphie... Which actress has the greatest
number of Academy Awards?

*X*
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: swc@fig.citib.com (Steve Carpenter)
Subject: Re: Jon Secada
Originator: swc@swcdev
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:43:04 GMT


In article <C1GE7E.4rv@unix.amherst.edu>, twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
|> In article <93025.212956REC8@psuvm.psu.edu> REC8@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
|> >Does anyone know what Jon Secada's professed sexual orientation is?  For some r
|> >eason I think he's married but I'm not sure.
|> 
|> Married is a sexual orientation now?  My goodness ...
|> 
|> -- 
|> ____ Tim Pierce                / 
|> \  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
|>  \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 


He's married, and yes.... to a woman.

-- 

Steve Carpenter                                  
5 Jane St.  New York, NY  10014-1934
(212) 691-8547                                  CIS: 70313,122
From: corto@sumax.seattleu.edu (Cort Odekirk)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Domestic Parnters
Date: 26 Jan 1993 09:13:42 -0800
Organization: Seattle University
NNTP-Posting-Host: sumax.seattleu.edu

   Can anyone E-mail me the actual text of a Domestic Partnership Ordinance?
Here at SU I got in a heated debate with a fellow classmate as to whether or
not these represented "Special Rights" for Gays.  He claimed the legislation
gave benefits only to gay couples, and not to heterosexual couples.  I know
he is wrong but not having the actual text of the ordiance it came down to a 
his word vs mine situation.

   I would love to come into class tomorrow with the full text of one (or 
better many) of the Domestic Partnership Ordinances and show him for the fool
he truly is.

    Please send E-mail, I am rarely on his list (too many messages :), and
send it to corto@seattleu.edu.  Many, many thanks.

****************************************************************************
 Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggy"   *  Cort Odekirk
   until you can find a rock                   *
*****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@vccsouth24.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Initiatives Planned in Other States
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 22:24:16 GMT

pfritsch@skid.ps.uci.edu (Paul Fritschle) writes:

>buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:

>>_NEWSWEEK_ magazine has reported that anti-gay ballot initiatives are being
>>organised in 11 states, namely: 

>>CALIFORNIA

>My understanding is that the right to privacy stated in the California
>should make such an initiative as unconstitutional as a ban on
>abortion would be.

Let's hope so! :-)

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``BOYCOTT COLORADO!''
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
"We believe the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which
cannot be infringed." --1992 Republican National Committee campaign platform
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Audrey
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 19:36:49 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1jogjrINNnnr@mizar.usc.edu>

Arne writes:
>Melmoron burbles:
>> There are very few "great" actresses, and the name was already
>> taken by one.
>
>It must be because I've been hideously sick with the flu
>for the past few days, but I don't get the allusion.

*Katherine* Hepburn.

 
() Interpretation is the revenge of the intellect upon art.
()      -- Susan Sontag
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett)
Subject: Re: "No Wavering on Gay Soldiers"
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 15:11:29 GMT

In article <AWOOTTEN.93Jan21160942@slacktide.cv.nrao.edu> awootten@slacktide.cv.nrao.edu (Al Wootten) writes:
>As president, he should stand behind his beliefs as forthrightly as he did
>as a candidate.

Bush and my ex-rep in CA Tom McClintock practiced this and I hated
their philosophy.  Our elected officals represent US, not their
personal views.  Yes, we elect them based on their platforms, but that
does not mean that they have the right to vote against the will of the
people.

Clinton, as well as Bush, is welcome to publically come out in favor
of one program or another, but it is ethically wrong for them to force
their ideology on the rest of the nation if the rest of the nation
wants something else.  That is the main thing that is wrong with
politics now.  We have a bunch of old queens sitting on seats of power
and dispensing their tired old beliefs.  It is the PEOPLE that they
represent who should have the voice... especially in major policy
decisions.


-- 
|Tom Barrett (TDBear), Sr. Engineer|tom.barrett@amd.com|v:512-462-6856 |
|AMD PCD MS-520 | 5900 E. Ben White|Austin, TX  78741  |f:512-462-5155 |
|"No is yes, And we're all free" ---Tracy Chapman, "Why?"              |
|My views are my own and may not be the same as the company of origin  |
From: rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Into the streets!
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:15:53 GMT
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, Ca.
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <C1DHHu.EDn@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:

   I'm with you, Ron.  I'd also like to add that, even if Clinton turns out
   to be really good on our issues, there's a danger that we'll get too
   dependent on having a sympathetic party in the White House and be caught
   napping some presidential election.  It takes time to build up a grassroots
   support structure, we shouldn't let ours get neglected through complasancy.

As Melinda Shore mentioned elsewhere:  A friend in the White House is
not the time we get to sit back and watch the changes happen.  It's
when we REALLY get to work and MAKE the changes happen.

Now we don't have the same old barriers, but we can't expect others to
do our work for us.

Also, there are always new enemies.  Clinton is being told that there
are enough congressional votes to overturn whatever he does on gays in
the military.  We can't let ourselves be one of the issues that helps
sink Clinton -- if that happens, the message to other politicians will
be that gay issues are STILL death to the politician.
--

  - Ronald Hayden

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
   | Documentation Manager, Oracle Toolkit Group                    |
   | Co-chair of Oracle Lambda, Oracle's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual group |
   | Writer, magician, and various other things                     |
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: List of GLBO* Historical and Celebrity Figures  Part 2
Date: 26 Jan 1993 12:00:38 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <C1H1I4.5Kv@ccu.umanitoba.ca> 
wyatt@ccu.umanitoba.ca (David Anthony Wyatt) writes:

> Akhenaten [m] (1364-1334 BC) Egyptian pharoah (OOAT, AA, GGG Jun 90)

I'd *love* to see the evidence for this.  Is there any?
Have these sources (OOAT, AA, GGG) instead felt that
the weird distortions in Amarna art somehow indicate
that Akhenaten was homosexual?

> Augustine, Saint [m] (AD 354-430) Roman theologian (AA)

Augustine of Hippo was *Roman*?

> Bankhead, Tallulah [f] (1903-1968) U.S. actress (GBOL-once)

*Once*?!  That would probably have come as a great surprise
to the women she slept with.

> Dickenson, Emily [f] (1830-1886) U.S. poet (OOAT, TM)

Evidence, please.

> Heliogabalus [m] (r: AD 218-222) Roman emperor (NF)

You've listed him twice, the first time as Elagabalus.


I didn't see Marlene Dietrich.

Arne
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: Are Gay Men Richer, Really?
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 14:40:17 GMT

dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:

	I've read Clay's postings, talked to Clay on the phone (he was
one of the few people on here who would call me up in NM occasionally to
make aure I was OK), and stayed at hisand Xopher's  place.

	Matthew Melmon is *no* Clay Bond.

(Apologies to Lloyd Bentsen).

	I think that people are experiencing memory decay.
Perhaps Jess , if he could be persuaded, could dive into his
vast archives and provide some comparative literature.  IT wouldn't
take much.

BBC

Xref: sparky soc.motss:58937 ca.politics:10726 talk.politics.misc:70413
From: Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Gays in the military (was:Re: Book Review "The Homosexaliti
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 17:49:48 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <PC.93Jan25145316@bacon.linus.mitre.org> <randall.728017145@seashore>
  <44049@zygot.ati.com>

In all fairness, I just picked up a book "Being Homosexual" by Richard A.
Isay. The Homosexualities was done by the dominant camp in psychoanalytics
which belives that homosexuality is a perversion and abberation, and this
goes back to Freud. The same Pillard who reviewed the other book says
"finally a psychoanalytic book that does not presume illness". However,
Isay seems to be in a minority in his field in believing that being gay is
both normal and healthy. So the "truth" is that it is still in dispute
as to whether being gay is healthy or not, and there are "facts" on 
either side of the argument. Anyone who says the argument has been
settled one way or the other is just being PC.