HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
Subject: Re: Ownership of files prevent Viruses
From: nunn@nutmeg.ntu.edu.au (JsNO  BAR---NUNN)
Date: 27 Sep 92 11:26:54 +0900
Distribution: world
Organization: Information Technology, Northern Territory University

Reply to Craig Burley:

   I totally agree with you. But lets be reasonable here. You are talking about
viruses that do exhaustive searches on users passwords, or bend over backwards to
get passwords. For an experenced user on PC-386, those sorts of activities don't
go unnoticed.



P.S. Thinking about it now, it would be a lot of work to convert it.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      One banana...Two banana...three banana, four!!... <POW> he appears
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  GET SET TAX DODGERS (and perspective COBOL freaks)...it's JsNO BAR----NUNN
                                  DARWIN, NT
   Physican's on the side of compiler boxes say that COBOL reduces your
 fitness. Sociologist's will tell you that it's responsible for 22% of public
 service deaths. Historians will tell you that it caused the fall of the
 British Empire. Politicians will tell you that it creates negative growth
 in the economy and Acid addicts will tell you that COBOL gives you a bad trip.
   Did you know that Managers have caught programmers peeing
 on their disk packs when there COBOL program's didn't work. So here's some
 advice from a COBOL programmer:
 Man is not a SELECT INPUT-FILE ASSIGN TO "INPUT.TXT": Stay away from COBOL!.
                          nunn@pandanus.cs.ntu.edu.au
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: martin@unislc.uucp (Martin Cryer)
Subject: Re: SCO and Microsoft (Was: Re: Attempted summary (Was Re: UNIX on a PC clone))
Reply-To: martin@unislc.UUCP (Martin Cryer,D1Z01,5754)
Organization: Unisys, Salt Lake City
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:48:18 GMT

In article <1992Sep26.170538.14908@Celestial.COM> bill@Celestial.COM (Bill Campbell) writes:
>In <Bv542n.2Aw@portal.hq.videocart.com> kdenning@portal.hq.videocart.com (Karl Denninger) writes:
>
>......
>:2)	It is a REAL Unix, and not a SVR3 knock-off.
>
>Version 7 was ``REAL Unix''.  Everything after that is feaping
>creaturism :-).

I remember going from V6 to V7. V7 was a memory / cpu hog, who needed
all this extra functionality and support for larger files?... But with
time V7 was fondly remembered when System III came. And the same for V.2
and V.3 and now with SVR4...

I suppose it is progress and if I went back to V6 now, I would see
what a real heap of flakey rubbish it probably was.

We all hate progress, more stuff to learn... But when I am truthful
I wouldn't swap SVR4.0/MP (or any equivalent generation of UN*X OS)
for V6, V7 or anything that went before it.
Some features I don't use (probably most) but as progress and change goes
its not bad, just different and in time will be seen to be better.

Those new to UNIX will regard SVR4 in the same light in 15 years time
that we regard V6/V7 etc now.

What I do miss though is all those wonderfull incandescents and switches
on the front of the old PDP's etc. Boot ROMS and BIOSes etc take
all the fun and confusion out of starting systems. Sigh.

:-) :-) :-)

>
>:--
>:Karl Denninger 		Inet:  kdenning@hq.videocart.com
>:VideOcart Inc.		Voice: (312) 987-5022
>-- 
>INTERNET:  bill@Celestial.COM   Bill Campbell; Celestial Software
>UUCP:   ...!thebes!camco!bill   6641 East Mercer Way
>             uunet!camco!bill   Mercer Island, WA 98040; (206) 947-5591
>SPEED COSTS MONEY -- HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO?

Martin Cryer
SVR4.0/MP Development
UNISYS Salt Lake City

All opinions my own and not those of my employer.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: bcr@cernapo.cern.ch (Bill Riemers)
Subject: Re: Ownership of files prevent Viruses
Organization: CERN, European Research Center for High Energy Physics
	<BCR.92Sep26113735@hpl3sn02.cern.ch>
	<1992Sep27.112655.3832@darwin.ntu.edu.au>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:08:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.112655.3832@darwin.ntu.edu.au> nunn@nutmeg.ntu.edu.au (JsNO  BAR---NUNN) writes:
>     I totally agree with you. But lets be reasonable here. You are talking about
>  viruses that do exhaustive searches on users passwords, or bend over backwards to
>  get passwords. For an experenced user on PC-386, those sorts of activities don't
>  go unnoticed.

There are many ways on most system to get access without a password.  Then normally
it is only one word in memory to change user id.

                                   Bill
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: ketil@svale.ii.uib.no (Ketil M. Malde)
Subject: Re: X fascination
Reply-To: ketil@ii.uib.no
Organization: student of computer science at the University of Bergen, Norway
	<id.3RIT.P5A@ferranti.com> <1992Sep24.195925.23312@csx.cciw.ca>
	<klamer.717420586@mi.el.utwente.nl>
	<KETIL.92Sep26001345@spurv.ii.uib.no> <greg.717466874@saltydog>
	<ABRAHAM.92Sep27175740@loke.iesd.auc.dk>
Date: 27 Sep 92 20:31:33

In article <ABRAHAM.92Sep27175740@loke.iesd.auc.dk> abraham@iesd.auc.dk (Per Abrahamsen) writes:

   [...]
   Gregory> we have here.  I thought computers were supposed to be used
   Gregory> to get real work done, not so one can modify one's .Xdefaults
   Gregory> all day.

   Give them a GUI (like OPEN LOOK) which does not require days to
   customize.  Those who wants to spends time customizing can install gwm
   themselves.

Agreed.  Usually, a new account will be given a default setup that works.
Which many people will be happy with.  But if you want, you can create
a window environment that suits your minutest demand.  But of course,
some people may prefer a GUI that forces the user to do everything the
way the software wants... read comp.sys.bondage instead :-)

   X stand between the GUI and the machine.

Yeah!

   WordPervert, Lotus 1-2-3, CoralDraw, etc.   

Well, yeah.

   Gregory> How about Display Postscript?  Or 8.5?  

   Display Postscript is not a window system.  8.5 is not available.
   NeWS is dead.

I've run OpenWindows on a sun here.  Now, I'm not much into these
matters, but it's supposedly superior to X.  To tell you the truth, I
couldn't tell any difference.  Apart from the startup logo... :-)

   imake?  As in "xmkmf; make; make install"?  I have found X11R5 and X11
   aplications with Imakefiles to be the free software most easy to
   install.

Maybe he was referring to the other end of it, maintaining the info
that imake needs?  I found imake an *extremely* pleasnt experience.

--
 = Ketil Malde                     In real life:  ketil@ii.uib.no =
 = Nuke the whales!                    Honk if you love unicorns! =
From: sheldon@iastate.edu (Steve Sheldon)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
Subject: Re: Many questions..
Date: 30 Sep 92 03:18:39 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

In <BvDD4y.DL1@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us> mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst) writes:

>In article <BvCz9K.5Fw@gator.rn.com> larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes:
>>Or, a 386/40 unless you plan to do a lot of math work --  

>A 386DX/40 is about as fast as a 486DX/20, assuming you are leaving
>floating-point math out of the benchmark.  A 486DX/33 will blow the
>doors off a 386DX/40.

>He also said he wanted to run X.  X, if I am not mistaken, benefits
>quite a bit from the addition of a FPU.

 According to the coprocesser FAQ which came across in comp.sys.ibm.pc.
(misc or hardware?) a coprocessor doesn't make that much of a difference
in X11R5.  The author did say that the older X11R3 did tend to use the
coprocessor more.  Maybe if someone had some benchmarks for X11R5?

 The original author indicated that he wished to run linux.  First
I would suggest inquiring in comp.os.linux, as you're more likely to
get better experiences.
 
 IMO, I'd go with the 386DX-40, and the 100 Meg disk only if you
weren't going to do any DOS stuff, or massive programming.  It just
sounded like he wanted to run some application stuff, which he should
be able to easily just obtain the binaries for.

 But for X, definately 8 megs.  And with the money saved on the 486
maybe a 200 meg drive.

 Nothing wrong with going the 486 route.  But there still seems to be
about a $300-400 difference in price with the 386 lineup(which are
getting pretty cheap).


-- 
Steve Sheldon         sheldon@iastate.edu
Iowa Cooperative Soil Survey Resource Unit
2142 Agronomy, Iowa State University  (515) 294-5429
From: shwake@nearside.UUCP (Raymond Shwake)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
Subject: Re: Unix "Lite" is not so light
Date: 2 Oct 92 13:59:46 GMT
Organization: A/C International

larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes:

>debra@wsinis07.info.win.tue.nl (Paul De Bra) writes:
>>Also important is the available range of media the system ships on.
>>Esix has been one of the few that can still be installed from floppies
>>or a 60Mbyte tape.

>How about with their 4.2 -- will that require a CD for installation?

USL's beta 4.2 was *only* available in floppy and QIC tape formats. That
may suggest how they intend to offer it. I, for one, hope they add CD ROM
as an installation option. (I used floppy on my beta.)
-- 

uunet!media!ka3ovk!nearside!shwake			shwake@rsxtech
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: X fascination (was Re: Attempted summary (Was Re: UNIX on a PC clone))
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 20:35:07 GMT

Better correct myself...

> The whole computer can be had for about $300 these days.

(that's not my system... my system is a bit more than $300. But you can run the
 same system on a 68000/7 for $300 and the window system STILL takes a
 negligable fraction of the CPU)
-- 
Peter da Silva                                               `-_-'
Ferranti Intl. Ctls. Corp.                                    'U` 
Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012
+1 713 274 5180                                   Har du kramat din varg idag?
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: X fascination
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 20:20:34 GMT

In article <ABRAHAM.92Sep27175740@loke.iesd.auc.dk> abraham@iesd.auc.dk (Per Abrahamsen) writes:
> Gregory> To paraphrase Mills, "X stands between the user and the machine."

> X stand between the GUI and the machine.

X stands between the application and the bitmap.

I don't want my applications spending their cycles fucking with bitmaps. I
want them to say "here's my window objects, wake me up when the user wants
ME to do something". Give me the important events, and let me do *my* thing
(which may be something compute-intensive) while he's playing with menus and
pushing buttons.

"User entered a rectangular region" isn't an important event.
"User pushed button 3~ isn't an important event.

"User selected menu 2, item 3 and menu 4, item 5. Text gadget 17 now
contains (frog legs)". That's an important event.

> Display Postscript is not a window system.  8.5 is not available.
> NeWS is dead.

Bad money drives out good.

X is the MS-DOS of window systems.
-- 
Peter da Silva                                               `-_-'
Ferranti Intl. Ctls. Corp.                                    'U` 
Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012
+1 713 274 5180                                   Har du kramat din varg idag?
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: pauls@css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth)
Subject: Re: Where can I get 'extract' utility from?
Organization: University of Michigan ITD Consulting and Support Services
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 05:42:10 GMT

In article <00961744.8FBAD700@vms.csd.mu.edu> 5916rahmank@vms.csd.mu.edu writes:
>Hi all, I have downloaded the bin files from a ftp site. But can't extract
>the files fom the bin01.?? distribution files. How do I extract them?
>Thank you for help.

First you need to use the bootable floppy (the dist.fs floppy image is in
386bsd/386bsd-0.1/bootable on most distribution sites) to boot the machine
and partition the hard drive.  You do this by booting from the floppy and
typing "install".  The package on that floppy "baseutils.cpio.Z" is a 
compressed set of basic utilities, including "extract".  The "extract"
utility gets automatically copied into /tmp on your hard drive after
you install the kernel.  After you install the binaries, the machine will
reboot.  Since /tmp gets cleared with every reboot, you would be wise
to copy "extract" into one of the other directories before running it,
such as /usr/distbin so that it does not disappear and force you to track
it down before being able to extract further distribution sets.  When you
have all of the bin01.* files copied into /tmp you type "extract bin01" and
the distribution will be unpacked, and the "install.bin01" script will
be executed.  Note that etc01 and src01 distributions do NOT have an
installation script, which means the extraction will finish with an
error "install script not found" or something.  This means nothing.

Please join us over on comp.unix.bsd where you will find many more people
discussing 386BSD 0.1

Paul Southworth                    |     ftp redspread.css.itd.umich.edu
Consulting and Support Services    |        Anonymous Political Archives
Information Technology Division    |                     100% 386BSD 0.1
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor  |  Coming soon: mirror of ftp.eff.org

  <Representing myself.  Everything I say is for educational use only.>
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: ccml@hippo.ru.ac.za (Mike Lawrie)
Subject: Re: Announcing the availability of XFree86 1.1
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 15:33:43 GMT

In <1992Oct3.132808.11065@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> dwex@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (david.e.wexelblat) writes:


>			Announcing XFree86 1.1
>..[etc]...
>		agate.berkeley.edu		- 386BSD binaries
>			under /pub/386BSD/0.1-ports/XFree86

Am I jumping the gun, or is the above a mistake? It was not there when I
looked a few minutes ago.

Mike
-- 
Mike Lawrie                                    <ccml@hippo.ru.ac.za>
Director, Computing Services                   ph +27 461 22023 x 279
Rhodes University, Drostdy Rd                  fx +27 461 25049
Grahamstown 6140, South Africa
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: dhong@wam.umd.edu (Sze Yuen Hong)
Subject: Looking for a Clock device
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 05:21:18 GMT


   
Hi guys, I am posting this for a friend, he is looking for something like this:

   I am looking for an UTC (GMT) device for my 386/486 machine
   running ISC system V 3.2.
 
   The device should either automatically update my system clock or
   should come with device driver.
 
   The accuracy of the clock should be within one second or better
   than the clock that comes with the mother board.
    
   James
 
 
If anyone has answers to this question, please email me at dhong@wam.umd.edu.

Thanks,
Sze Hong
From: mike@pacsoft.com (Mike Stefanik)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
Subject: Re: UNIX on a PC clone
Keywords: Linux, Coherent, comparisons, *_OPINIONS_* ;^)
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:39:48 GMT
Organization: Pacific Software Group, Riverside, CA

In an article, keith@ksmith.uucp (Keith Smith) writes:
>[...] MWC did not get it's start in writing unix clones. They wrote
>lots of other reasonably priced stuff like 'C' compilers, and such [...]
>Coherent to x86 port was kinda was a "keen idea", that developed a lot
>more interest than they expected. [...] I think it has only been recently
>that MWC has really begun to push Coherent on PC platforms. 

        "Several other companies sell UNIX-like operating systems
        for the Personal Computer. The Mark Williams Company in
        Chicago, Illinois, for example, sells Coherent." [...]

        From the book "IBM's Personal Computer" by Que. Copyright 1983.

So this question is valid:
"If they have been hacking on UNIX-like kernels for the past 10 years or so,
why is it that in 1992 they *just* came to market with a 32-bit flavor which
still lacks virtual memory, networking and other essentials?"

I would guess that they *chose* not to for non-technical reasons; since
the folks who produced Linux (and other freely available software) are
not bound by marketeers and accountants, they can be considerably more
nimble in terms of getting "product" out the door.  But keep in mind that
writing the code is only half the job ... and that other half is where a
significant portion of the cost of bringing a product to market lies.

Ultimately I believe that comparing Linux to Coherent is akin to comparing
apples to oranges -- both have a place in the world, and are designed to
attract and serve the needs of different kinds of people.

-- 
Mike Stefanik  mike@pacsoft.com  ...!uunet!pacsoft!mike  (714) 681-2623
Pacific Software Group, Riverside, CA
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: pauls@css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth)
Subject: Re: Many questions..
Organization: University of Michigan ITD Consulting and Support Services
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 05:28:35 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.024011.6080@super.org> pcolsen@super.org (Peter C Olsen) writes:
>
>Does either Linux or 386BSD (the PD one) support SCSI drives?
>

Yes, both do.

Paul Southworth                    |     ftp redspread.css.itd.umich.edu
Consulting and Support Services    |        Anonymous Political Archives
Information Technology Division    |                     100% 386BSD 0.1
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor  |  Coming soon: mirror of ftp.eff.org

  <Representing myself.  Everything I say is for educational use only.>
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: u009@csx.cciw.ca (G. Stewart Beal)
Subject: Re: need help with tiny intallation disk for bsd386
Organization: Canada Centre for Inland Waters
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:04:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep26.110646.26258@newstand.syr.edu> kfoudil@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Foudil-Bey) writes:
>I just retrieved the tiny installation disk  from agate.berkeley.edu
>. I am supposed to insert the disk in drive a and reboot. My problem
>is that my machine does not reboot from disk b and that't the only
>31/2 disk. How can I remediate to that problem?

Just do the rawrite to a 5-1/4 1.2 m disk and boot that. There is only
1.2 meg of info in the .fs file

>Other problem: Currently DOS manages all my disk space. If I want
>to create a partition for Unix, do I have to reformat all of my disk
>space or is there an easier way?
>thanks
>
Generally, you have to make room for the system to reside on your disk.
Backup everything, re-FDISK to make the bsd partition and reload your DOS
stuff. (Just reload necessary stuff at first because there might be
some growing pains requiring re sizing later.)
Also, look in the comp.unix.bsd news group and on agate.berkeley.edu for
the FAQ.
 
Regards, Stu Beal, VE3MWM, U009@CS.CCIW.CA,
National Water Research Institute, Burlington, Ontario, Canada.
 
"We'd made it through yet another nuclear winter and
 the lawn had just trapped and eaten it's first robin." - Kyle J. Spiller


Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
Subject: Re: UNIX on a PC clone
From: rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Organization: The Man With Ten Cats
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 18:48:58 GMT
Reply-To: rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Keywords: Linux, Coherent, comparisons, *_OPINIONS_* ;^)

In article <id.E7PT.0FK@ferranti.com> peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva) writes:
>In article <1406@pacsoft.com> mike@pacsoft.com (Mike Stefanik) writes:
>> "If they have been hacking on UNIX-like kernels for the past 10 years or so,
>> why is it that in 1992 they *just* came to market with a 32-bit flavor which
>> still lacks virtual memory, networking and other essentials?"
>
>Because they did not consider them essentials. They were selling Coherent
>for 80286 and (I believe) 8088 based systems, and they were selling it for
>real-time, near-real-time, and low-end applications.
>
>	Real-time and virtual memory just isn't easy to do. The only system
>I've used that managed it was RSX11-M (though I'm sure there are others).

Coherent 3.x is capable of doing swapping.  By default it is turned off.
With db and the docs it can be flipped on.  They left this code out of
Coherent 4.0 as they are working on demand paging and more efficient file
systems for 4.x.

>	Virtual memory hurts performance, particularly in a swapping
>environment like you'd have on an 8088 or 80286.

It would be a killer on an 8088.

>One could as well ask:
>
>"If they have been hacking on real-time UNIX-related kernels for the past
>15 years or so (MERT was discussed in the UNIX BSTJ issue in the mid '70s)
>why is that in 1992 AT&T *still* hasn't produced a viable real-time UNIX?"
>
>> I would guess that they *chose* not to for non-technical reasons;
>
>They chose not to for *technical* reasons. It would have impacted their
>ability to provide the performance characteristics they were aiming for.

And for a large part of the last decade, the main product of MWC was
C compilers.

-- 

Rick Kelly	rmk@rmkhome.UUCP	unixland!rmkhome!rmk	rmk@frog.UUCP
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
Subject: Re: DOS and Unix on one disk?
Date: 27 Sep 92 07:35:41 GMT
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

scott@ryptyde.cts.com (Scott McClure) writes:

>ucosmo@mcl.ucsb.edu (Boris Burtin) writes:

>>Everyone seems to be talking about whether to run DOS or Unix.  Is it possible
>>to run both from one disk?  Granted, not at the same time, but maybe determine
>>which system to run at boot time?

>Yes, it is possible.  The actual way it works depends on the Unix vendor.
>For SCO, you get a boot prompt that looks something like this:               

>			UNIX System V
>			Boot 
>			:

>If you press <RETURN> at this prompt, Unix is booted.  If you type "dos"
>and press <RETURN>, the system is booted from the DOS partition.
>Other vendors (such as ISC/SunSoft) may require you to boot the machine
>with a DOS boot floppy in drive A:, but it still works.

ISC 2.2 was that way but 3.0 pops up a menu and let you chose which
you would like to boot. If you don't do anything, it books UNIX
after some delay ... maybe a minute: I don't have it setup that way
any more so I can't check. 

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
ISC 2.2 was that was but 3.0 pops up a menu and let you chose which
you would like to boot. If you don't do anything, it books UNIX
after some delay ... maybe a minute: I don't have it setup that way
any more so I can't check.

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
ISC 2.2 was that was but 3.0 pops up a menu and let you chose which
you would like to boot. If you don't do anything, it books UNIX
after some delay ... maybe a minute: I don't have it setup that way
any more so I can't check.

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
ISC 2.2 was that was but 3.0 pops up a menu and let you chose which
you would like to boot. If you don't do anything, it books UNIX
after some delay ... maybe a minute: I don't have it setup that way
any more so I can't check.

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087