HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Pauley@vnet.ibm.com (Paul Benson)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 09:54:04 EDT
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: soundmaster? (read others' replies first!)
Organization: IBM Personal Computer Co. - PS/1 Development
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not those of IBM
News-Software: UReply 3.0
            <1992Sep14.201851.10848@jlc.mv.com>

In <1992Sep14.201851.10848@jlc.mv.com> Scot Salmon writes:
>Doesn't anyone read other people's replies to a question before posting their
>own reply? Someone asked about a SoundMaster workalike for the GS, and the
>next three messages in the thread were:

Timing is everything, the other 2 messages may not have reached the other
poster before they replied.
Also, I am aware of one other response to the above post, where the person
said to use 'm' in rn.  That's a good idea, but I found it annoying whenever
it wrapped back around since I preferred to use 'N' to follow the thread.
It was just easier to post when it was on my mind.

Pauley
GEnie: P.Benson1
From: pauley@VNET.IBM.COM ("P. H. Benson ", Paul)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Compuserve address
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:25:42 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

Hey, I know this is not the proper group, but
1) I have limitted usenet groups and could not find one that was close to
    appropriate.
2) I know somebody here can help me...

So, what is the compuserve address of Rush Limbaugh?  And in the interest of
keeping out of politics, I will not tell you if it is a cheer or jeer that
I want to send him.  Of course, he may mention his addr on his TV show, but
this way is 'sure fire.'

Thanks,
Pauley
GEnie: P.Benson1
The opinions are my own and not necessarily those of IBM.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: mmunson@animal.es.com (Mark Munson)
Subject: Re: Apple disks on DOS
Reply-To: steelem@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (STEELE MARK A)
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, UT
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 01:40:02 GMT

Mark:

There isn't much common ground when it comes to 5.25" disks.  You'll find terms like
"Modified Frequency Modulation" and "Group Code Record" floating about when you get
down to the hardware level.  PC-DOS disks and ProDOS disks are written to using different
format and hardware strategies.

There really isn't much common ground with 3.5" disks either.  But Apple has been shipping
Macs with a 'SuperDrive' that can read both Apple and PC formats.  As a result, the Mac can
act as a translator for 3.5" PC-DOS <-> 3.5" Apple disks.  Use Apple File Exchange on the Mac
to perform the text file conversions (like swapping the order of LF/CR combinations)

To get a PC disk to work on a II, you might consider a PC-Transporter PC emulation card.  With
an attached PC drive, and Transporter software, you can move files to-and-from PC disks.

I've heard about Apple II cards that can be plugged into a PC that give the machine 48K Apple
II+ compatibility.  It won't run all of the latest and greatest, but it will work for file
transfers.  This type of hardware is hard to find anymore, but it does exist.

If you've got an Apple IIgs, you can use the MS-DOS FST (File System Translator) to read and
write 1.44 MB 3.5" disks using the new Apple SuperDrive.  You'll need a special adapter card
though, since the SmartPort circuitry isn't sufficient for it.  I'm not sure if you can work
with 720K 3.5" PC-DOS disks.  I've yet to see this configuration running, but I'm sure a lot
of folks will be doing it shortly.

Lastly, you should consider the modem solution.  You can use software to send the file in over
the phone from home.  Should this be impractical, then consider getting an old Apple ( a //c
will do nicely) and an old PC (8088 vintage).  Connect the serial ports together using a
"Null-Modem" cable.  Then use a telecommunications program on each machine to 'send' the text
file to the other computer over the serial cable.


I expect that the last solution is the cheapest.  Getting an old PC or Apple // is usually less
expensive than trying to get one super do-all product.  Granted, it's not quite as convenient
as just putting in a floppy, but considering that you NEED to perform some text file conversion
between the PC-DOS and Apple world, you might as well let the telecommunication software do it
for you.  The Apple // knows how to read ProDOS, and the PC knows how to read MS-DOS.  Each
machine has the proper hardware to read the appropriate recording strategy used with each.

Heck!  You'll even get an extra computer to use while you're not transferring files.

[MGM]
id <m0mTZt9-0000GHC@crash.cts.com>; Sat, 12 Sep 92 08: 59 PDT
	id <ic31441@pro-sol.cts.com>; Sat, 12 Sep 92 08: 44 PDT
	id <ic10470@pro-fla.cts.com>; Sat, 12 Sep 92 02: 54 EDT
From: bilbo@pro-fla.cts.com (Bill Logsdon)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: more about my proterm...
Date: 12 Sep 92 06:53:10 GMT
Organization: TruckStop BBS  [pro-fla] *A ProLine Networked BBS*  Tampa, FL


It is a custom driver problem... I have several friends here locally
(sysops) who use the Supra, Practical Periphals 14.4's, and a dual standard
with PT3 with no handshaking problems....

however, when I attempted to use the Zoom V32/V42.bis 9600.... it simply
would not handshake properly.... the modem was doing its part, the software
was not recognizing it..... no matter what driver selected (of the ones
available) or what init string used....  Insync wasn't very helpful, they
said the drivers they have for the 2400 and Zoom Turbo would work fine, but
admitted to not having tested the 9600......
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: bk@pro-palmtree.socal.com (Bruce Kravets)
Subject: Apple III
Organization: The Palmtree BBS - 310/453-8726 - Santa Monica, CA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 03:24:44 GMT

I received the following message

 
Dear BK,
|-Our WAP library has lots of Public Domain Disks - $2 each for 4
or fewer, and $1.75 for more than four.  $1 / disk postage up
to a max of $5.  Offerings include Accounting (Easy...), ///ep
templates, Business Basic, Games, Grapphics, Info (35 disk
set), Miscellaneous (19 disks), Pascal, Repairs,
Telecommunications, Utilities (39 disks) and word Processing.
I think we honor other memberships for some things.
 
If any ///ers out there want to join, membership is $39/yr, $9
for TCS, $17 for first class postage on the magazines, and a
great deal if you need a 1200 BAUD Modem for $25.
 
I'm writing from Joan's account because my Unix doesn't like
our GS tonight.  Feel free to come to our meeting next Sat (Sep
12) <grin>.  There are also cards around which will let you use
the /// as a //e - wider choice of software but still a waste.
As for the GS, they (and the Mac) programmers at apple
regressed when they programmed those operating systems
<IMHO>!!!  It is amazing how quickly you can seriously scrw up
a system without any warning.  Kind of like Messy-Dos.
 
Take care and we'll send a listing of the disks available if
you give us a snail-mail address.
|-
Dave (aka djernigan@hq.dla.mil) & Joan Jernigan
703-822-5137
Rt 3 Box 163-A
Lovettsville VA 22080
 
ps, we have some members out your way and even further west,
would you believe Austrailia and Japan?
From: 00bwanderson@bsu-ucs.uucp
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Apple //e (enhanced) upgrades?
Date: 10 Sep 92 03:30:08 GMT

Hey there...

I've got an old //e that I don't know what to do with.  I've been cosidering
upgrading it, but I don't have bunches of money (I'm even thinking of selling
off my Mac Classic to gather a little $$$) to spend doing it.  What, in your
considered opinions, would be the four best upgrades?

Here's what I have so far...

Apple //e, enhanced
AppleColor Monitor //e
2 Apple 5.25" drives
ImageWriter II printer
(and, of course, all of the needed cables and cards)

What I'd like to know:

	Where do I get ProDOS 2.x?
	Is the ZIP for the 8 bit Apples any good?
	Is the AE TransWarp any better?
	Is there a CHEAP hard drive out there that I can use with this?
	Should I chuck it all and stay with the Mac, selling the Apple if
	I can?
	Will john and marsha ever get things patched up with cliff?

oops...sorry...wrong newsgroup...8^)

Thanks much in advance!

The Spockinator
-- 
.sig?  We don' need no steenkin' .sig!

Bruce Anderson: A tradition of Chaos and Disorder since 1967
spock@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (unix)	00bwanderson@bsu-ucs.uucp (VAX)
Don't look at me in that tone of voice!  BSU disclaims me, and I disclaim them.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: behrenss@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Soenke Behrens)
Subject: Re: IDE Card: Is it shipping in the US?
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 20:28:34 GMT

bkogawa@pro-apa.cts.com (Bryan Ogawa) writes:

>Hey, has anyone got one of these yet? My friend wants to know if you guys
>are shipping here yet (in the US).

No. All shipping is still done from FRG. SHH Systeme is talking to a company
in the US about a license, though. So, it might be you actually see it in
the mail-order catalogues before Christmas :) But I don't promise.

Bye
Soenke Behrens
-- 
===========================================================================
More than silver, more than gold, I need   !    behrenss@informatik.
electricity. I need it for my dreams.      !    tu-muenchen.de
(RACTER)                                   !  FIDO: 2:246/13 Soenke Behrens
From: hdgarner@acs.harding.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: gif help
Date: 13 Sep 92 16:23:30 GMT
Reply-To: hdgarner@acs.harding.edu
Organization: Harding University

Could someone please tell me the best way to get gif pictures from ftp
sites so that I can use SHRconvert to view them. I have tried everything
I can think of but nothing seems to work.

HDGARNER
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: bird@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (j.l.walters)
Subject: UltraMacros 4.0 & SuperFonts
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 00:27:26 GMT

Here is Randy's answer to the person that posted that they were
falling into the monitor when using um4.0 and SuperFonts:

From:   BRANDT                          Randy Brandt

To:     J.L.WALTERS                     Joseph L. Walters

Sub: reply

Thanks for being an intermediary...

re: SuperFonts problem
Try delete the I.CLOCK init. Several SuperFonts users have reported
problems, although author Mark Munz and other testers can't reproduce
it. Once we figure out what's wrong, we'll try to fix it quick.

=END=

Hope this helps. Please feed back if it fixes your problem or not.

Regards,
-- 


				Joe Walters att!ihlpw!bird   
				IH 2A-227 (708) 979-9527
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: David.Empson@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Subject: Re: A question or two
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:20:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep09.174634.18343@edsi.plexus.COM> cranem@edsi.plexus.COM (Mike Crane) writes:
> I have had a Transwarp GS and a PC Transporter installed in my machine
> (ROM 01 GS) for 3-4 years now, and there is a "feature" on each one that
> I would like to know the purpose of.  Each one has an unused row  of
> pins that look like a ribbon cable connector of some sort could be
> attached to, but the manuals don't make any metion of what they are
> meant to be used for.  Do they have any *real* use, or were they just put
> there for "future expansion" posibilities?

This is true for the TransWarp.  In theory, a new device could be made
that plugs into this port and is able to be accessed by the processor
at maximum speed (7 MHz or whatever).  The ZIP GS has a similar but
incompatible port.  In practise, I don't think we're likely to see any
devices made to connect to these ports - there is a small enough user
base for IIgs's already, and a device made specifically for a IIgs
with a TransWarp would not sell enough to be profitable.

There aren't any "unused" connectors on the PC Transporter.  It has
several ports used to connect to various parts of the computer, which
may not be used on your particular system (most of them are used on a
IIe or II+ only).

The pair of two-pin jumpers at the front of the card are used to
intercept the speaker in a II+ or IIe.  This isn't needed on the GS.

At the back, there is a five-pin connector which accepts a standard
IBM PC compatible keyboard (via an adaptor cable).  Another two-pin
jumper is used for composite video on a II+ or IIe.  Next to this is a
10-pin connector used to intercept the keyboard on a II+ or IIe (via
another adaptor - needed to detect the Shift keys, etc.)

Another 10-pin connector goes to the "ColorSwitch" RGB adaptor card in
a IIgs, and below that is the disk drive connector (20 pins).

You may have an empty 40-pin socket at the front of the card: you can
put an 8087 maths coprocessor in there.

I can't see any other connectors.
-- 
David Empson

Internet: David.Empson@bbs.actrix.gen.nz    EMPSON_D@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Snail mail: P.O. Box 27-103, Wellington, New Zealand
From: WAXMONRW@SNYBUFVA.BITNET
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: UtilityWorks
Date: 9 Sep 92 01:07:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

From:   BITNET%"Info-Apple@Apple.COM"  8-SEP-1992 04:07:47.56
To:     BITNET%"WAXMONRW@SNYBUFVA.BITNET"  "Ray Waxmonsky"
CC:
Subj:   UtilityWorks

Received: from Jnet-DAEMON by SNYBUFVA.BITNET (PMDF #12405) id
 <01GOJ15KDXQW9KN77X@SNYBUFVA.BITNET>; Tue, 8 Sep 1992 04:07 EST
Received: From UBVM(MAILER_L) by SNYBUFVA with Jnet id 5390 for
 WAXMONRW@SNYBUFVA; Tue,  8 Sep 1992 04:07 EDT
Received: by UBVM (Mailer R2.08 PTF008) id 0624; Tue, 08 Sep 92 04:07:36 EDT
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 04:51:14 GMT
From: lim thye chean
 <cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!usc!wupost!darwin.sura
   .net!jvnc.net!nuscc!rambutan!ltchean@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject: UtilityWorks
To: Ray Waxmonsky <WAXMONRW@SNYBUFVA.BITNET>
Reply-to: Info-Apple@Apple.COM
Message-id: <01GOJ15KDXQW9KN77X@SNYBUFVA.BITNET>
Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was info-apple-request@APPLE.COM
Comments: To: info-apple@apple.com

>After reading GS+ about UtilityWorks and UtilityLaunch (it says, throw away
>Finder 6.0!), I decided to try out the 2 programs. Unfortunately, I can only
>find UtilityLaunch at the used-to-be tybalt.caltech.edu (is this the latest
>version for 6.0?), but NOT UtilityWorks.

>Anybody know where can I get the latest versions of both programs?

The author of both programs is George R. Wilde; his address is:
   24402 Broadwell Ave.
   Harbor City, CA  90710-1812
   The phone no. is 310-325-4456

   Long distance phone rates are relatively cheap but I have no idea what
a call from Singapore to Calif. would cost!

The shareware fee for both programs is a meager $25; they are worth much
more than that! George has an account on Genie but I am not sure of his
user id. His docs indicate that he can provide passwords on America Online,
Compuserve, Delphi and MCI mail as well as Genie.

I hope this helps.

Ray Waxmonsky (waxmonrw@snybufva)
Dept. of Geography and Planning
Buffalo State College
Buffalo, NY 14222
From: cchang@quasar.ssc.gov (Charles Chang)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: 64K RAM on Apple's extended 80 col./RGB card
Keywords: RAM, 80 column, RGB
Date: 11 Sep 92 22:37:00 GMT
Reply-To: cchang@quasar.ssc.gov
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory, Dallas, Texas

I cannot play games which require 128K on my //e.  I do know that my 
extended 80 col./RGB has the extra 64K on it.  I tried the Tetris game
//e version and just cannot make it run, so I have to settle with
//+ version.

Is there something wrong with the card or is it because the extra RAM
is occupied by the RAM disk setup by //e?  How can I get away with this
so I can have full 128K?  Thanks in advance.

-- 

/*----------------------------------------------------------------------*\
 |  Charles Chang, System Development Group, Physics Research Division  |
 |  Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory, Dallas, Texas 75237      |
 |  Internet: cchang@quasar.ssc.gov             Phone: (214) 708-6100   |
\*----------------------------------------------------------------------*/
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: bkogawa@pro-apa.cts.com (Bryan Ogawa)
Subject: Re: Apple Stupidity (was Re: Where does ProDOS come from?)
Organization: AppleWorks Programmers' Association - (213) 463-9289 300-1200-2400
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 04:28:39 GMT

Well, I don't think that Andy N. killing disk archives is a good idea.
1. Then, people can't pack DOS 3.3 disks.
2. Then, people can't pack custom format 3.5" disks (like the FTA stuff).
3. Besides, I think that Dave L. or someone from Apple, Inc. stated some
reasons that they didn't want to use file archives for the files (this
question came up before, I think).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bryan K. Ogawa  Undergraduate Computer Science and Engineering Major, UCLA
                Jesus has done great things for me!     II Infinitum
bkogawa@pro-palmtree.socal.com <-School Yr.  All Yr.-> bkogawa@pro-apa.cts.com
--------------> From Pro-APA BBS,  (213) 463-9298 (D/CALAN) <-----------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: Woz certificates
From: carndt@zeus.calpoly.edu (Chris Arndt)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 02:33:06 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo

In article <max.716427406@isis> max@isis.eng.hou.compaq.com (Max Heffler) writes:
>meekins@anaconda.cis.ohio-state.edu (Tim Meekins) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Sep13.163019.153005@zeus.calpoly.edu> carndt@zeus.calpoly.edu (Chris Arndt) writes:
>>>In article <id14186@pro-harold.cts.com> dcgreen@pro-harold.cts.com (David Green) writes:
>>>>Someone just told me that Apple sent certificates of authenticity to
>>>>registered owners of IIgs Woz Limited Edition models. Is that true? I 
>>>>never received one, if it is. Does that mean my Woz is a forgery? I also
>>>>have a second Woz that I bought used, and I didn't get one with it either.
>>>>
>>>Boy, I haven't thought of THAT in years. Got it right here... Still in
>>>the original envelope postmarked Mar 5'87. Sandwiched between 2 pieces
>>>of cardboard, with a letter from WOZ. Always meant to frame it and hang
>>>it.
>>>
>>>
>>>Chris
>
>>Odd, I never got a certificate....and I'm sure I sent in any registration
>>materials hat were included.
>
>Same here.  Sent in registration.  No certificate...

I did get one of the first GSes sold (the first one in this county). I
don't have the s/n handy (the GS is on a shelf in the kneewell of my
desk, all wired in, and a MAJOR pain to remove!)

Chris


Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: irsman@iastate.edu (Ian Schmidt)
Subject: Re: Apple Stupidity (was Re: Where does ProDOS come from?)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 00:59:39 GMT

All the FTA stuff is actually on catalogable ProDOS formatted disks, just the
boot blocks are custom....


-- 
   _IanSchmidt(oINet+irsman@iastate.edu,oBITNET+twbv4@isuvax,$C000,Data)
 Data  dc i'Apple IIgs,Rush,Tiny Toons,Ren & Stimpy,Dave Barry,David Letterman'
   "I will choose a path that's clear: I will choose free will" - Neil Peart
From: uerics@mcl.ucsb.edu (Eric D. Shepherd)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Looking for TransWarp and Zip Chip info
Summary: Programming info needed
Keywords: Zip TransWarp
Date: 11 Sep 92 22:05:21 GMT

I need information on programming the 8-bit Zip Chip and TransWarp
accelerators.  I want to add accelerator support to ProBOOT 8.  I have
a 4 MHz //e (Zip) for testing, but will need volunteers for testing the
TransWarp and 8 MHz Zips once the coding is finished.

But I need the info first.  Suggestions gratefully accepted! :)

- Eric S.

--
Eric D. Shepherd   | ACM Member | Apple II Alliance Charter Member | 
--------------------------------+-----------------------------------
InterNet: uerics@mcl.ucsb.edu   | Use FahrWorks & watch the sparks
America Online: Sheppy          | fly!      - Fahr Corp. Slogan
From: drees@plains.NoDak.edu (Steve Drees)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: CAD programs
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:46:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.20321
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


Howdy!

I'm looking for pointers to shareware/freeware CAD programs.
Preferably GS specific, but anything will be appreciated.
-- 
+-----------------------+------------------------------------------------+
|Steve Drees            | keeper of apple2 directory on plains.nodak.edu.|  
|drees@plains.Nodak.Edu | Computer Science senior at UND. Please hire me.|
+-----------------------+------------------------------------------------+
From: POSTMASTER@MC.DUKE.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Tape Backup - any recommendations?
Date: 11 Sep 92 22:12:09 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Duke University Medical Center, Durham NC, USA

********************* DEMPO Error Message ***********************
UNSENT MAIL!                            
NO NAME SPECIFIED!                      
From:	BITNET::INFO-APPLE@APPLE.COM
To:	
Subj:	Tape Backup - any recommendations?

********************* DEMPO Error Message ***********************


To:	
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: moorera@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU (Ryan A Moore)
Subject: Re: Keypress function in pascal?
Reply-To: moorera@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:29:48 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.170740.54265@qut.edu.au>, hollandd@qut.edu.au writes:
>>But to the point.  Does there exist in Orca pascal a function that
>will return a keypress without waiting for return to be pressed?
>Not as far as I can tell from the manual?


I have gotten working code for ORCA/Pascal.  The code uses the Keyboard Status
Register to check if anything has been typed on the keyboard and then read the
key once something has been typed.  Once you read the register, you need to
clear the keyboard strobe manualy though, no big deal...

I had that code here in my VAX ccount TWO days ago, but deleted it...  oh
well, I'll just have to get it from my GS again...  if no one posts code, I'll
post it ASAP...
>================================================================================
>Darren Holland: Research Assistant  ->   | School of Social, Business and
>  - Post-Graduate Student:               | Environmental Education.
>  - Faculty of Information Technology    | Queensland University of Technology
>email: hollandd@redgum.qut.edu.au        | Brisbane, Australia.
>================================================================================

Ryan Moore
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Ryan A. Moore			|	  Rose-Hulman Institute       |
|  moorera@rosevc.rose-hulman.edu       |             of Technology           |
|  Okay, so I'm a geeky computer science|            Terre Haute, IN          |
|  major...  BIG DEAL!			|                WHERE?               |
------------------May use a VAX, but I still love my Apple IIgs!!--------------
From: taob@terranet.cts.com (Brian Tao)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Mockingboard
Date: 8 Sep 92 04:38:10 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

foegelle@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Michael Foegelle) writes...
>
>You've got it backwards.  The program is told that there's a
[...]
>device might actually reside there.  Hope that makes more sense...

    I see (I think).  So the Mockingboard provides some sort of timing
signal (via the interrupts) which triggers an interrupt handler which
resides in the program rather than in the Mockingboard ROM.  This
routine then generates the appropriate music/sound through the
Mockingboard, right?  OK, how about emulating the Phasor then? (kidding!)
--
Brian T. Tao    =*8-) | ::::::::> tcomtaob@chasm.scar.utoronto.ca <::::::::
Dept. of Exobiology   | :::::> generic!terranet!taob@zoo.toronto.edu <:::::
University of Toronto | "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2