From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Distribution: soc
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 13:36:23 GMT

In article <78684@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
>In article <1992Aug28.131455.22802@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>>  Okay, then can we call you clueless?
>
>Why?  Because my experiences and the conclusions that come from them
>are different from yours?  

  Nope, because you need to go study more about race relations in
  this country and not just the microcosm of your particular experiences.
  You need to find out more about how Native Americans have been living
  in the past 500 years, how African Americans have been treated and
  what other Asian Americans have been subjected to before coming
  to your conclusions solely based on your happy childhood.

  As I said to JJ, my life growing up was much happier than his,
  so I don't base my conclusions on my happy childhood, but on
  studying historical and current trends and what hapenned and
  is happening to other ethnic groups in this country.
>
>I thought tolerance for differences was what we were trying to
>achieve.

  We are, that's why I'm pointing out that you need to look beyond
  your own experiences instead of generalizing from your own to
  everyone else.
>
>No I'm saying that the attitude "we are not one of you" instead of "we
>are one of you only a little different" will lead more likely to a

  Fat chance getting them to accept the "little different" part.
  How are you describing that?  Our skin is only slightly darker
  than yours, our hair is only slightly straighter than yours, our
  eyes are only slightly smaller than yours, there are white people
  with black or dark brown hair too, but for the most part we are
  almost the same, so let's get together and oppress those people
  with kinky hair and real dark skin, huh guys?  [obsequieous grin]

>There's a good chance of that happening in the United States in a few
>decades, as Asian-Americans start controlling a disproportionately
>large share of the economy and as the United States starts going on
>the economic skids.  What I'm saying is that the way of keeping the

  Fear not.  I doubt that Asian-Americans will control a large share
  of the economy of this country.  Besides if they do, and if JJ's
  experiences can be generalized, then the petty elite will be playing
  golf in country clubs with the AAs and asking for campaign contributions.
>
>>  The dominant powers will just pick and choose their victims. 
>
>If one becomes a member of the dominant powers, then one is in a
>better position not to find victims, and to open up the dominant
>powers to excluded classes.

  I see your scheme of things.  You're going to join the dominant
  class and then in the kindness of your heart, open it up to
  other less fortunate classes.  Well bless your dear little heart, Joe.
>
>As part of the majority, you can say "hey wait a second, if you
>see me as part of the majority, then what about a person who is
>black, hispanic, etc. etc."  

  Yeah, keep dreaming.  Like they'll buy that.  You the hanger-on
  are going to tell them what to think.  Keep trying.  The most
  likely response is, "Hey Joe, when you joined we thought you were
  one of us.  Now you're trying to tell us to accept them?  Hmmm...
  Looks like we misjudged you Joe."  Joe, you joined not from a
  position of strength where you can go and make such demands,
  but a position of weakness where you begged your way in.  If
  you were in a position of strength, there would be NO majority
  and no reason to include or exclude anyone.  So obviously your
  membership is tenuous at best.
>
>If it all comes crashing down, then no one is safe.  The strategy is
>to look for ways of keeping it all from crashing down.  Right now the
>racial climate is such that Asians can be seen as part of the majority
>in some areas.  What I'm saying is to take advantage of this and try
>to push things forward.

  You still don't get it do you?  In parts of America, where Asians
  are few and professional, the local petty elite will accept you
  as you're harmless and of use to them.  You will be an honorary
  white and feel like you're part of the majority, only because they're
  busy erecting coalitions against other groups that are of
  threat to them.  In the Deep South of Texas in the 1950's Asians
  (and notice I didn't say AsAms) were few and looked on as exotic
  beings to be converted to Baptism and sent back home as missionaries
  to their people.  Of course they were treated royally, and felt like
  they're part of the majority.  But one day, the Asian college student
  was taken to a hospital to see a dying man.  This dying man was a
  coolie who had no family, no one.  The coolie could not speak the
  same dialect as the Asian college student, his only happiness was
  to see another Asian face before he died.  

  A world of difference between the Asian college student and the
  Asian American coolie, and yet each gave a little to the other.
  I do know that the college student realized that her position
  was only given on the whim of the Baptist Texans around and could
  be revoked on moment's notice.  And this college student did not
  become Baptist and go back to oppress her own people.  Nope, in
  fact after seeing the treatment of Blacks and Native Americans
  (which her friends refused to let her talk to), she realized that
  as long as any people are oppressed, then her position as pampered
  Asian pet of the college was a sham too.  And thus the Asian college
  student became Asian American.

  Joe, when are you going to go from Chinese to Asian American?
>
>
>>  They were basically harrassed until the perpetrator got tired of it 
>>  (it was too easy).  
>
>Yup.  And after that you point out to the perpetrator, that he or she
>is tired of making fun of me, but I'm still proudly Chinese.  You can
>beat me up, but you won't make me feel bad, and I'll still be proudly
>Chinese.  You can even kill me, but even then I'll be laughing at you
>from the grave, still proud to be Chinese.

  Ha, ha, this is hilarious.  Can I beat you up too?  I want to make
  you laugh too.

  And if all Chinese people had your attitudes, then we'd all be
  Japanese by now.  Just lie back, let the Japanese beat us up,
  rape us, kill us, because we'll just laugh at them from our
  graves, still proud to be a dead Chinese.  What a great strategy
  Joe.  You really would have made your mother proud being a forward
  thinking Japanese collaborator.  Too bad you were born about 40
  years too late.
>
>I then pointed out to the perpetrator that it might be easier on him,
>if he stopped harrassing me.  It's not going to bother me in the
>slightest if he keeps doing it, and he's only hurting himself. 

  Oh great, what about your son/daughter.  Will you just stand
  there and tell them to keep beating them up too, that they're
  only hurting themselves?  Oh, I forgot, beating up people can
  make your arms sore.
>
>That's the way I handled racism.  It worked quite well.

  Good for you.  So you think we should all do as you do since it
  worked for you.
>
>
>>  You mean you're worried that Asian Americans will become a noticeable
>>  minority, instead of an invisible minority like when you grew up?
>
>Yes.  Exactly.
>
>I'm trying to arrange a society that just doesn't notice these things.
>After all, in Ireland, people kill each other over Catholicism versus
>Protestantism.  Here, no one notices.  Catholics in the United States
>are in essence, "an invisible minority."

  Has nothing to do with it.  One of the founding principles of the U.S.
  is separation of church and state (although how well it is enforced
  is another question).  

  The goal is to change the way the system works to become race blind
  rather than to blend in and become invisible.
>
>My goal is to have the color of one's skin or the language one speaks
>most of the time be something that people just don't notice, just like
>most people don't notice the color of one's eyes or the religion one
>practices.
>

  That's good, we have the same goals.  However becoming invisible
  doesn't satisfy that goal except at the null value, that you are
  invisible so people don't notice you at all, so they don't notice
  your skin or language, because you're invisible.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american