From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: Israeli soldiers kill Palestinian boy
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:10:22 GMT

In article <1ghfbrINN5b1@manuel.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>In article<1992Dec13.170823.14064@colorado.edu> Eric Perlman writes:
>>In article <1genihINNhqk@manuel.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>>>In article 22288@colorado.edu, perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>>>>In article <1602@tdat.teradata.COM> jcg@tdat.teradata.com (Jonathan Gingerich) >writes:
>>>>>In article <4570@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>
>>>>>>  A mericans. please inform us what an American soldier is expected to
>>>>>>do if he is stoned at Somally ?
>
>>>>>Leave.
>
>>>>While I don't often side with Gideon Ehrlich, in this case I am forced
>>>>to.  Jonathan, the UN mandate given to the multinational forces
>>>>currently operating in Somalia does allow shooting back if resistance is
>>>>met.  Anyone who doesn't think that stoning doesn't fall under the
>>>>category of possibly deadly force needs to re-think their position.
>>>>Under the UN mandate, the US (or any of the other nations') forces would
>>>>be justified in countering resistance.  [..rest deleted..]
>
>>>I can't believe my eyes.  If American soldiers start killing Somali 
>>>children (I include younger teenagers) who throw stones at them
>>>there will an international outcry like you have never seen.
>
>>If that were all that were going on in Somalia, perhaps. ut that never
>>was all that is going on in the intifada.  
>
>I can't seem to interpret this in any other way than that Palestinian
>violence against Palestinians somehow justifies Israeli violence
>against Palestinians.  Despite seeing this presented as an argument
>quite a lot of times, I am still at a loss about its logic.
>Perhaps you can explain it?

No, it's more of a perspective argument.  Let me also throw into the
equation the fact that nearly 150 Israeli civilians - this does not
include IDF soldiers - have been killed by Palestinians during the
intifada.  Yes, this is between 1/5th and 1/6th of the number of
Palestinians killed by the IDF, but my point is this:  for Israel, it's
not a bunch of protests, it's a war.  I don't think you're wont to say
that Israeli troops actually are trying to kill Palestinians; no one
likes killing, and Israelis are no different that way.  Indeed, the IDF
is highly trained in riot-prevention techniques and the like.  However,
when faced with thousands of people throwing stones at you don't you
think you might well snap, or start shooting back with your sidearm if
you had one?  If you doubt that a stone can be a dangerous - even deadly
- weapon, try standing as a target for a pitcher in a baseball game,
with 95-mph fastballs hitting you.  

That's the logic.  Israel doesn't want to kill Palestinians any more
than anyone else.  That's why it's participating in negotiations.

>>                                           The intifada is not a popular
>>uprising - not anymore, whether or not it was at the beginning.  Right
>>now it has deteriorated into a battle between members of different PLO
>>factions, which hold a large portion of the Palestinian population in
>>terror.  Over the last two years, many more Palestinians have died at the
>>hands of such militia than have been killed by the IDF.  And the vast
>>majority of those killed by PLO-affiliated death squads are completely
>>innocent.  The militias charge that they're collaborators, but the
>>reality is far from that.
>
>Some are certain to be collaborators, but I'm sure many are not.
>I would be 99% certain that this corruption of the focus of the
>intifada had more than a little Israeli help.  No, I'm not talking
>about death squads necessarily; there are many subtler ways to go
>about it.  On the other hand, as I've said before, the killing of
>collaborators is an unfortunate invariant of "resistance movements",
>especially at similar stages.

Not sure what you're trying to say here, Brendan.  Does the IDF try to
recruit Palestinians to help in the security situation?  Of course it
does - that's just plain common sense.  But the vast majority of those
assaulted by the Death Squads aren't guilty in the slightest.  Even PLO
activists realize this yet make no attempt to rein in the squads.  


-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast