HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: richard@adpgate.UUCP ( ADP OPuS)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Need suit and tie for a job interview ??
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:24:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: outland.1463
Organization: ADP Dealer Services R&D, Portland, OR


  I really think this thread could continue under a different group
  that has to do with men, women, culture, society, etc. I'm not sure
  where since I'm pretty new to the net.  But this topic sure hits my 
  hot buttons and I think it really has a lot more to do about who we 
  are as men, women, culture & society than just the limited subject 
  of getting a job; which certainly fits as a subtopic in those areas.

  I have noticed in this thread that some folks misinterpret 
  the meaning of those who advocate dressing outside of the 
  typical stereotypes.  They talk about greasy hands, soap & water
  torn, sweaty T-shirts and not bathing.  I agree that certain basic
  minimums of hygiene are important.  My comments are not meant to 
  imply an *anything goes* mentality.
  
  I have always felt that social fashion oppression has a lot to 
  do with the strength of militarism in the world and it's hard fisted 
  dogma of authoritarianistic conformity.  Self-expression is a threat 
  to the power mongers, and IMO a strong vein of this influence runs 
  through American culture.

  Conceptually, I feel that this influence manifests itself as  
  discrimination; admittedly an overused buzzword but the correct 
  word in this communication!  If I reject someone for superficial 
  reasons I consider it discrimination.  It may be rejection at a 
  lot of levels -- not talking to them at a party, not volunteering 
  to work with them in some group or even dismissing their job 
  skills in a hiring situation.

  People, can't we practice more tolerance towards those who 
  may look *different* than us?  My experience has been that most 
  of us have the same joys and fears, the same needs and desires. 
  Yet we continue our intolerance and only think about discrimination 
  in the realms that have organized movements (women, black, gay, etc.)

>  oneil@odin.unomaha.edu (Sharon O'Neil) writes:
> 
> (My aunt does hiring/interviews and states that she and most other
> interviewers size applicants up in the first 20 SECONDS of the interview.)

  Is this really the kind of behavior we want to condone in our society? 
  I'll just bet they wouldn't like being on the other side of the desk.

  My hope is to someday work in a place where many different individual 
  people work.  Some may be sikhs with turbans, some may be expressing 
  their African heritage, women will have short and long hair as will 
  men.  And the best part of my dream is that leaders and managers will 
  not be chained to sartorial stereotypes; the black woman in the 
  multi-colored garb may just as possibly be the company president as 
  the man with the waist length hair just as possibly as the man 
  with the sport coat and tie.  Does that sound so damned radical? 
  Maybe then we can get on with being a great economy and stop wasting
  or energy on a lot of unimportant things.
From: ccoprbm@prism.gatech.EDU (bruce mccullough)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Where do old programmers go?
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:54:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Jul23.152523.19558@sei.cmu.edu> rmg@sei.cmu.edu (Richard Green) writes:
>We advance to positions of authority where we can ruin the careers of
>arrogant young snots who won't wear suits to job interviews! ;-)

Yesss - Very good!!
HA- HA!!

MY .02 gOTTA BE A FREAKIN NUT NOT TO WEAR A SUIT TO AN INTERVIEW.
DAMN SURE WOULD EXSPECT MORE FROM PEOPLE IN OUR LINE OF WORK OR JUST ABOUT
ANY JOB RELATED TO PEOPLE WHO POST TO THE NET. sOMEONE FLAMED ABOUT US
NOT LETTING POOR PEOPLE HAVE THE CHANCE-(not) IT'S UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL
TO MAKE IT IN LIFE(ALTHOUGH HELPING THE WEAK SHOULD SOMETHING WE ALL DO).
tHIS IS AMERICA YA KNOW YOU CAN DO JUST ABOUT ANYTHING YOU WANT.

-- 
Bruce Mccullough-Tech Assistant   | "The sharpest sword cannot cut itself".
Office of Information Technology  | "Look into the book of mirrors and find 
Georgia Institute of Technology   | all the knowledge you will ever need to  
Internet: ccoprbm@prism.gatech.edu| know". -    The Teacher              
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: lenny@bmerh174.BNR.CA (Len DePalma)
Subject: Re: Where do old programmers go?
Reply-To: lenny@x400gate.bnr.ca
Organization: BNR Ottawa, Fiber Systems Development
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 19:00:29 GMT


In article <1992Jul30.023038.5098@polari>, hnoble@polari.online.com writes:
|> You gotta be kidding if you think professional programmers become "mediocre"
|> by signing a contract guaranteeing decent hours, pay and training.  What
|> better way to protect the artistry of programmingda quality of work than
|> with a written contract?

Unions?  Programmers?  (I think my .sig says it all...)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
INTERNET: lenny@bnr.ca                 Any opinions expressed are mine.

Kill a Union, save an Industry. 
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: dfriedman@misvax.mis.arizona.edu (D R Friedman)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: getting laid off
Date: 26 Jul 92 21:47:00 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona MIS Department
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Jul24.133516.4302@lloyd.Camex.COM>, johnd@lloyd.Camex.COM (John Duesenberry) writes...
>I have recently learned that the company I work for, which is in deep
>financial doody, has canceled the software development project to
>which I was assigned, and that there is going to be a "downsizing"
>(love that term!) soon. 
>	As in all such situations, bizarre rumors are circulating. Here is
>one that concerns me: that the company wishes to cut costs by eliminating
>as many employees as possible, but also wishes to avoid the costs
>normally associated with layoffs. (such as severance pay, and paying
>into the state's unemployment-compensation fund so that ex-workers
>can collect unemployment comp., etc.) Therefore, it is said, they plan
>to offer people "new" positions that are actually demotions at drastically
>lower pay, or are otherwise inappropriate or designed to be totally
>unacceptable to the employee - thus forcing the employee to quit
>"voluntarily." Thus, the co. would not have to pay severance and the
>employees could not file for unemployment, etc.
>	My question is - IS THIS LEGAL? What are my rights here? If this
>scenario is true, do I have grounds for legal action? What state agencies
>(I'm in Massachusetts) might I contact for help?
>	Any advice would be appreciated....

I was in a similar situation years ago.  The company will say that they
have compassion by not firing people due to financial difficulties
and have offered people positions, rather than laying them off.

This is legal unless you can prove that there were discriminatory reasons
behind such moves i.e, people over 40 get crummy new jobs, all women
are assigned to crummy jobs, people of a particular race are assigned to
specific jobs, etc.

The whole point here is that you cannot afford to voluntarily quit and
if you voluntarily quit you are SOL unless you can prove you are being
harassed, etc.

It is smarter just to take the demotion and while you are working go
out and look for a new job.  It will save you a lot of hassle and
time.  The legal system will not protect you.

Denny 
-------------------------------------
Bushe/Quayl '92 Saddam Hussein still has his job, do you?
From: fitz@ipld01.hac.com (Melissa T. Fitzgerald)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: EDS
Date: 21 Jul 92 23:52:33 GMT

In article <1992Jul15.190454.4918@nova.sarnoff.com> jms@vision.sarnoff.com writes:
>Isn't that Perot's Company?

No, that is GM's Company (formerly Perot's), and I caution anyone considering
going there to look at how GM is run.

I also interviewed with them out of College, and was told that my red suit
was inappropiate at EDS, even for a female.  I was also told that higher
education was not encouraged -- they would teach you everything you needed
to know.
From: nmartin@cadev6.intel.com (Nancy Martin -iNTEL recruiter)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Tech Mktg/Applications Engr Network Device Drivers, Intel, Sac. CA
Date: 28 Jul 92 23:58:27 GMT
Distribution: usa


 
Intel Corporation has an opening for a Technical Marketing Engineer
with experience writing network device drivers in Folsom (near Sacra-
mento), California.
 
Will be responsible for design and implementation of network device
drivers.  Will also be responsible for generating technical documenta-
tion and training materials.  Interaction with customers and contrac-
tors is likely.  Must have strong software debug skills and under-
standing of underlying LAN components.  Knowledge of adapter buses,
such as Microchannel or EISA, and PC architectures strongly desired.
 
Requires BS EE/CS with a minimum of 3 years of experience.  MUST have
experience writing network device drivers and a strong background in
MS/DOS, OS/2 and UNIX.  Should be well versed in Novell NetWare, LAN
Manager and TCP/IP protocols.  Software background should include
programming in C, C86 or 680X0 assembly language.  (Alas, there are no
similar positions for new grads -- industry experience is required.)
 
For immediate consideration, FAX your resume to:
 
                     Robert Belsjoe
                     Intel Corporation
                     FAX:   (512) 490-2999
                     Phone: (512) 490-2998
 

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: viviana@igor.tamri.com (Vivian Aldridge)
Subject: Seek new career in SOFTWARE CONFIGURATION
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 14:30:33 GMT

I'm exploring a new career in software configuration and would
like to "talk" to people already in this field. So far I
understand software configuration is similar to hardware
configuration. Essentially it is breaking down a large
amount of information into subgroups of info that are
easy to revise, track, and build from.

Does anyone have a job like this?
What kind of background would this require?

(Currently I work at a company which uses language C and unix)

I'd really appreciate any info you could send my way!

Thanks,

Vivian
From: mike@pacsoft.com (Mike Stefanik)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: ParcPlace Hiring Trainers/Consultants (Mt View, CA)
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:23:25 GMT
Organization: Pacific Software Group, Riverside, CA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Reg Foulkes writes:
: Previously, I wrote:
: >Of course companies specify they want someone with specific skills; but take
: >note that this is a *wish list* for the employer.  In all cases, there is
: >a compromise between what the employer wants, and who is available for the
: >price the employer is willing to pay.
:  
: Check any local paper and read what skills employeers are asking for and 
: insisting on. Employeers are insisting on specific skills C++, APL, 
: smalltalk etc. Hence, if you do not have the specific skills, eventhough 
: you may have years in other languages your resume will be passed over. 

I agree that employers are partially (or some would say entirely) responsible
for the "specialization urge" that is found in high schools and colleges.
Personally, I think that it's wrong.  If I'm looking for a C programmer, but
someone comes to me who is bright, motivated and knows only Pascal, would I
consider hiring him or her?  Damn straight I would.  I don't think that it
would be that difficult to write an ad for the local paper:

	"Seeking highly skilled and motivated programmer.  We are
	a UNIX/C shop, so experience in this area is a definite plus.
	If you think you have what it takes to develop quality
	software tools for the UNIX marketplace, give us a call
	at +1 123 456 7890 or fax your resume to +1 123 890 4567.
	We are an EOE and prefer that you don't wear suits to work."

Sorry about that last line, I just couldn't resist plugging that in there. :-)
-- 
Mike Stefanik  mike@pacsoft.com  ...!uunet!pacsoft!mike  (+1 714 681 2623)
Pacific Software Group, Riverside, CA
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: orville%weyrich@tnet.com (Orville R. Weyrich)
Subject: Re: Usenet newsgroups postings
Reply-To: tnet.com!weyrich!orville
Organization: Weyrich Computer Consulting
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 07:08:07 GMT

In article <01GMYLI2GSE895MQJG@dcu.ie> 89500831@dcu.ie (Ronnie Albuquerque) writes:
>QUERY::
>
>I'm only on the Internet, with no access to the Usenet. Does anyone know
>if the postings from misc.jobs.* are archived anywhere?
>

Not an FTP-able archive, but if you are desperate enough to pay Ma-Bell:

My system has a bbs set up that allows *read only* access to misc.jobs.offered
postings as well as misc.jobs.resumes.

The system archives over a year's worth of postings [but you can specify
how far back you want to search].

I have a semi-intelligent purge routine that attempts to purge repostings
of substantially similar articles, but I make no guarantees.

I was developing the system in my spare time, but recently I have had more
work than I really have time, so it hasn't been enhanced the way I know it
needs to be. It is running on Microport UNIX 3.0 [obsolete] so I can't 
make some of the improvements [like faster scsi disks, storing archives on
a file server with a better file system, etc.] Sorry, no down-load capability.

I just saw a message saying that misc.jobs.offered.entry [?] has been
created. That may have broken my software.

But anyway, anyone that wants to dial in is welcome to. The modem is a
Hayes Optima [300-9600 baud, v.32, 8-N-1]. You need to emulate a VT-100. You 
probably will want a terminal emulator that has some "print-screen" or
session capture facility.

The phone number is 602-661-0660. The phone line is also my news feed, so
it may be busy. Login as "guest".

Enjoy.


orville

--------------------------------------       **********************************
Orville R. Weyrich, Jr.                          Weyrich Computer Consulting
Certified Data Processor                       POB 5782, Scottsdale, AZ 85261
Certified Systems Professional                      Voice: (602) 391-0821
Certified Computer Programmer                Internet: orville%weyrich@tnet.com
--------------------------------------       **********************************
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: ede@harpo.osf.org (Ted Ede)
Subject: Re: Security Clearance, let's get real
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:42:58 GMT

In article <2A6C3133.1B7B@deneva.sdd.trw.com> shrdlu@willow.sdd.trw.com (Lynda L. True) writes:
>Also, if you win any money gambling you had better declare it, because
>otherwise your bank balance and/or spending habits will change
>unnaturally, and it won't look good.

Take it in cash and stuff it in your mattress...

Don't you think this is a bit excessive?  I'm sure DISCO does a credit
check, but prying into transaction logs of banks is probably
unrealistic.

Seriously, I used to work on a job with secret and above systems.  You
generally work in rooms with no natural light, on system which log
everything you do and generally are mid '80 technology because it's
pain to keep the system up to C2 or B1 security.  The people that make
the security procedures generally know nothing about computing and
just follow an orange book written by another group of people that
couldn't really give a damn that you had to *do* something with the
operating system.

Oh, if you're lucky you may get to use some form of secure unix.
Lotsa big shops use wonderful operating systems like mvs and vm.
those boxes make SE-VMS look real good.

... I won't go any further.  You probably want to look into what else
comes with the jobs along with the required security clearance.  I'm
sure it will be enlightening

   Ted Ede -- ted@world.std.com -- on contract at the Open Software Foundation
      -- All views expressed are mine unless explicitly stated otherwise --
	           -- This line intentionally left blank  --
From: Misara@cup.portal.com (Misara and Associates)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract
Subject: IBM 43xx hardware maint. - SF (Recruiter)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 17:02:24 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: na

07/24/92

Misara & Associates, a full service engineering search
firm, has positions in the San Francisco Bay area.

Position:
Hardware Technicians to provide on-site maintenance
of IBM 43xx systems.

Requirements:
IBM 43xx certification for hardware maintenance.

Respond to:  Misara & Associates
             39055 Hastings St., # 207A
             Fremont, CA 94538

             Fax:   510-796-0738
             Phone: 510-796-3074

             email: misara@cup.portal.com
                   (ASCII format only)
 







        

     


REFERENCE :     Furnished upon request.
From: rebecca@netcom.com (Rebecca Davis)
Newsgroups: ba.jobs,misc.jobs.contract
Subject: 35 Contract Dos Phone Support People!/Silicon Valley/Recruiter
Keywords: DOS/Phone Support/Entry Level OK/ASAP!!!!!!
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:08:33 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Distribution: ba
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Twenty contractors needed by July 28, another 15 by July 30
for phone support positions (DOS utility) at local software
firm.

Requirements:

- MUST NOW DOS and DOS work commands
- MUST know how to create sub-directories
- MUST understand batch and configuration files
- MUST be able to check memory and Hard Drive space available and used

Phone Skills - will be working on phones 7 hrs a day, must be able
to interact well with others, have experience in a customer service
capacity regardless of customer base.

Minimum 6 wks contract, must be flexible, fast-paced, professional.

Rate depends on experience.

Call me or my associate, Lisa Hammond ASAP.  We need to get resumes
into firm by tomorrow.

Rebecca - 408/358-6558
Lisa - 408/358-6564


Engineering & Documentation Serives
15951 Los Gatos Blvd., Ste 6
Los Gatos, CA  95032

408/358-6560 FAX


****** Entry level with above skills welcome to apply
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract
From: msmith@netcom.com (Martin P. Smith)
Subject: Consultants (RDBMS, C, C++ UNIX OS/2 Windows) S.F. area (perm posns)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 08:13:22 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: misc.jobs.contract

In view of todays market I hope you do not mind my posting for permanent 
consulting positions here in misc.jonbs.contract. Marathon Systems I can 
honestly say are NOT a BODY shop and offer a chance to gain experience
in some of the leading technologies of today or to help lead our clients 
into the future. 

The Company
----------------------
Marathon Systems a systems integration firm and the West Coast leader in
client server consulting. 

The company has an outstanding track record of growth and leadership.

Our continued ability to attract business from dynamic organizations
has lead to a number of openings in our consulting buisness unit
for consultants and senior consultants.



The Positions
-----------------------

Senior Consultant
  
     Responsibilities will include

         Business applications analysis design and programming.
         Project estimation
         Project management
   
    Requirements:

        6+ years application development experience

        Development experience in one or more of the following
 
            Relational DBMS ( Sybase, Oracle prefered )
            UNIX    ( RDBMS, C, C++) 
            OS/2    ( RDBMS, C, C++) 
            GUI      ( Windows, PM, X-Windows )
             
        In depth knowledge of systems development life cycle

        Excellent  verbal and written communications skills



Consultant
-----------------

  Responsibilities will include

     Business applications analysis design and programming.

   
  Requirements:

       3+ years application development experience

       Development experience in one or more of the following
 
             Relational DBMS ( Sybase, Oracle prefered )
             UNIX    ( RDBMS, C, C++) 
             OS/2    ( RDBMS, C, C++) 
             GUI      ( Windows, PM, X-Windows )

       Knowledge of systems development life cycle

       Excellent  verbal and written communications skills



The above positions will require local travel and may include regional travel. 

Please send resume and salary history to 

Cathy Hilliard 
4 Embarcadero Center
Suite 780
San Francisco CA 94111

Ref (inet0724)



Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract
From: jhc@iris.uucp (James H. Coombs)
Subject: Re: Salary ranges wanted
Reply-To: jhc@iris.UUCP (James H. Coombs)
Organization: IRIS - Brown University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:30:32 GMT

In article <154a2tINNdoh@cs.utexas.edu> wardrb@cs.utexas.edu (Richard Byron Ward) writes:

>One clarification, my friend is dealing directly with the company that
>he plans to work for.  He is not dealing with a contract house.

Have him read Shenson's books.  He can get them in a couple of days by
calling Wiley Press directly and asking for one or two-day UPS:

	Howard L. Shenson, *Shenson on Consulting*, 0-471-50661-3
	Howard L. Shenson, *The Contract and Fee-Setting Guide*, 0-471-51538-8

--Jim

P.S.  The number for Wiley is in Books In Print.
From: ramana@vu-vlsi.vill.edu (Venkata Ramana)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract
Subject: PART-TIME JOB: COBOL PROGRAMMING IN DOS
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:40:34 GMT
Organization: Villanova University



	I am posting this for a friend. Please do not email to this address.
Call him at the following number.


		PART-TIME COBOL PROGRAMMER: PHILADELPHIA AREA
		============================================= 

REQUIREMENT: Experience with ACCUCOBOL/MICROFOCUS COBOL in DOS environment.
	     DOS communications and C progrmming is a plus.

DURATION:    Min 3 months.

WORK:	     20 hrs/week

CONTACT:     Raj Patil
	     Vice-President
             Colonial Mortgage 
	     Willow Grove, PA 
	     (215)940-1692

	     Hrs: 9-5 EST

College students, recent graduates are most welcome; Experience a big plus
Xref: sparky misc.jobs.contract:2698 soc.culture.indian:26520
From: krc@ulysses.att.com (Kannan Raghavan[pw])
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Contract position in INGRES Windows 4GL, SQL
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:22:06 GMT
Distribution: nj
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Murray Hill, NJ, USA






			CONTRACT POSITION POSTING
			=========================



		Contract position open in INGRES,SQL INGRES-Windows4GL.
	CITIZENS and PERMANENT RESIDENTS ONLY apply.  Please send resume
	and salary requirements to raghavan@grad1.cis.upenn.edu
	(preferably post-script form).  The position is in New Jersey.
Xref: sparky misc.jobs.contract:2660 misc.jobs.offered:9292 ba.jobs.offered:1530
From: alanh@cup.portal.com (Alan E Hattman)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract,misc.jobs.offered,ba.jobs.offered
Subject: Open Look / Open Windows Contract, Mtn View CA (Broker)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 08:22:14 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa

                      Open Look / Open Windows Developers

                                   JOB 43AH



           Six (6) month + assignment in Mountain View California to
           provide technical support and programming to end users in
           the area of OS Programming, Open Windows-Open Look
           programming.  Some travel may be involved.

           You must have a minimum of 5+ Yrs exp. Thorough understanding
           of UNIX software develpment in Open Windows,Open Look and
           SunOS.  Must have development background with C, C++, Pascal
           and Fortran 77.


For consideration / information contact:

Alan Hattman - Branch Manager         The Right People...
Mini-Systems Associates                     The First Time...
100 Homeland Court, Suite 405                    Guaranteed!!
San Jose, CA 95112

Voice:408-451-0246
Fax:408-451-0277
Email:alanh@cup.portal.com (ASCII FORMAT ONLY) 
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.contract