HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jciccare@adobe.com (John Ciccarelli)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Riding distance from white line (was "Crazy...")
Date: 26 Jan 93 02:25:06 GMT
Reply-To: jciccare@adobe.com (John Ciccarelli)
Organization: Adobe Systems, Mountain View, CA

In article <1k1m1dINN64t@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> 
kipper@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Kip Ingram) writes:

>The further to the right of the white line I can get, the less likely 
>I am to be hit....it will take a lot to convince me that that isn't true.  

You might think that sheer distance is the best protection, but that's
not the only factor in the safety equation.  One other important one
is conspicuity -- how visible and steadily noticeable you are.

The reasoning above leads inexperienced cyclists to weave right in gaps 
between parked cars.  So instead of drivers seeing the cyclist early and 
passing smoothly, they are surprised at the last second and may have to 
take evasive action.  In summary, fear of the rare incompetent driver 
leads to behavior that endangers the cyclist the rest of the time.

/John

-- 
John Ciccarelli           Adobe Systems,  1585 Charleston |    _~C      __C
jciccare@mv.us.adobe.com  Mountain View CA USA 94039-7900 |  ='\<,    ='\<,
uunet!adobe!jciccare      415/962-6677,  fax:415/903-0584 | (&)/(\)  (&)/(\)
=== "If you live within 7 miles of your job, why drive?" === BIKE TO WORK ==
From: m_thiba@pavo.concordia.ca (MICHAEL)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: The Bird (was: Dilemma)
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:19:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Concordia University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

On the subject of a laugh response...Sure, but can you do it genuinely?
Yes, a good laugh can be a very sharp political knife, but too often it 
comes out phoney...in which case, you're just a victim of your times and
their fashions.  Why waste a good blade? 

The power of such insults, it seems to me, lies in a shared agreement 
between sender and receiver that "it's insulting"; if you aren't complicit,
and you can make that clear, the bubble bursts.  


All this is apropos of something I come across quite often here on the 
streets of Mtl in the winter: I'm riding my fold-up bicycle - apparently
not too common in Mtl, less so in the winter in Mtl - and hear pedestrians
now and then emit a forced guffaw followed by some pithy comment or other.
Yawn!  I've got to admit, though, that I do get genuine pleasure out of 
the dropped jaws I and my dinky bicycle occasionally evoke...probably because
the response is genuine - back-brain or pre-linguistic.  



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Language hobbles the brain.
                                                       Michael Thibault
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: kc@core.rose.hp.com (Kurt Chan)
Subject: Re: Do you use a mirror
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:28:32 GMT
Organization: HP, Systems Technology Division
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

| ...I don't like adjustable mirrors.  They un-adjust (when off the bike)
| and need fiddling.  

Right. This is why my commute helmet has an adjustable mirror that I've
converted to be NON-adjustable. I used liberal amounts of epoxy, and
welded it onto the shell, along with all the movable joints.

Now the thing sticks to my helmet closer than Dave Harvey to a rear wheel.
If I absolutely had to, some dynamite or a screwdriver could be used to pry
it off, I guess.

Kurt.
From: apm@hpopdlau.pwd.hp.com (Andrew Merritt)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Calling Hewlett-Packard bike commuters
Date: 22 Jan 93 18:30:07
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, CCSY Messaging Centre, UK
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpopdlau.pwd.hp.com
In-reply-to: apm@hpopdlau.pwd.hp.com's message of 22 Jan 93 13:16:52

Diana McGrogan is only interested in bicycle commuters at HP in the Bay Area.
My message to her has been forwarded to the Corporate Commute and
Transportation Programs Manager.  I will post again if anything of interest
comes of it.

If any HP-ers want the name and phone no. of our CCTPM, drop me a line (Desk
or unix mail will work).

Andrew
--
----
Andrew Merritt (Unix mail: apm@hpopd.pwd.hp.com) 
	       (phone: +44 344 763152  HPDESK/OpenMail: Andy Merritt/HP1600/LB)
	       (X.400: C=GB;AD=GOLD 400;PD=HP;OU1=Pinewood;SN=Merritt;GN=Andy)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: RONEAL@lexmark.com (Randy O'Neal)
Subject: Re: Tri-bar safety
X-Disclaimer: These views are the poster's and not necessarily those of Lexmark
Organization: Lexmark International, Lexington, KY
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:31:31 GMT

In article <rw.728033043@Xenon.Stanford.EDU>
rw@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Rich Washington) writes:
 
>
>Two quick answers:
>- You can draft with aerobars, but only if you trust the guy ahead of you.
>- Aerobars accentuate any shimmying a bike has, but shifting with one hand
>still on the bars shouldn't allow shimmying unless the bike is really bad
>or the rider is unsteady (i.e., the rider's wobbling, not the bike).
 
I personally have never had any problems with shimmy while out on
my Scott DH bars.  ALso, drafting is just as you say, more a factor of
confidence in the lead rider than safety on the aerobars IMHO.
 
>(and it works just fine to brake with one hand while your other one stays
>on the aerobars).
 
Good point... I've done this and the opposite as well (with the brake lever
out on the aero portion of the bars).  Being relaxed is the key to both
comfort and control.  With this in mind, I sincerely believe there are some
people who should *never* use aero bars as they seem to never be able to
bring the bike under control when stretched out... these guys/gals are
dangerous to everyone, including themselves.  Much will come with practice
and patience though.  We should keep an opened mind and not condemn
something that we have neither taken the time to master or even try for
that matter.
 
Randy O'Neal                         "The above views are mine alone,
RONEAL@lexmark.com                    though they can be yours too for
Printer Attach Software Development   a nominal fee..."            __o
Lexmark International, Inc.                                       `\<,
Lexington, Ky.                                                    O/ O
 
Jenning's Corollary:                                                           
     The chance of the bread falling with the buttered side down
     is directly proportional to the cost of the carpet.
From: david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George)
Subject: Re: Crazy and incompetent drivers. (Was: Punishment for the Driver!)
Organization: OSF RI Grenoble
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 10:45:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.041444.459@news.ysu.edu>, ae505@yfn.ysu.edu (Frank Krygowski) writes:

|> Riding out in the lane was the only reasonable choice.
|> If we hugged the edge, they passed when it wasn't safe for us.  
|> (One slip on the wet road and we'd fall into them.)

and riding in the gutter you are much more liable to follow an irratic line
due to road debris, avoiding gutters etc.

I think drivers prefer a cyclist in the road who is following a steady line than
one who is wobbling in and out of the gutter.  My experience suggest that the
majority of drivers are unable to make simple judgements such as where it is
safe to pass objects on the right, the amount of gap to leave etc.  If you
leave enough room for a driver to squeeze by, he will, if you force him to wake
up and think a bit he'll do that too.

David.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: flip@cgrg.ohio-state.edu (Flip Phillips)
Subject: Re: Car intentionally runs down cyclists!
Organization: OSU Advanced Computing Center for the Arts and Design
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:00:58 GMT

In article <2936635146.1.p00004@psilink.com> "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com> writes:
>>DATE:   Tuesday, 19 Jan 1993 07:06:08 PST
>>FROM:   TOM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
>>
>>The worst nightmare of any cyclist happened!  A Contra Costa woman apparently

Can someone tell me where this happened (road wise?) I used to live back there,
and in fact rode for an amature team in CC ounty (Team Peadler)

Made me shiver big time when I heard...

-- flip
-- 
Flip Phillips					flip@cgrg.ohio-state.edu
The Ohio State University 		      Asso porco Diabolus gaudet
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest)
Subject: Teddy takes a ride
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 08:58:31 GMT

Though cyclists often find themselves in adversarial relationships
with motorists, a few years ago I accidentally discovered a way to
elicit uniformly friendly responses from passing drivers.  In fact,
a bit too friendly.

My grown daughter had decided that she no longer needed her 3 foot
tall teddy bear and wanted to give it to the 2 year old daughter of a
friend.  I agreed to effect the transfer but found that when placed in
my shoulder pack its upper torso projected well above the top.  Thus I
found myself cycling along Foothill Expressway in coat and tie with
Teddy looking backward at oncoming traffic and waving his arms
sychronously with my pedalling cadence.  This somehow brought forth an
outpouring of affection -- as cars passed me, most drivers tootled
their horns and waved.  Arg!  How embarrassing!

When I reached Stanford and entered the computer science building
clutching Teddy in front of me, a woman colleague took one look and
said in a very motherly tone "How sweet!"  A-a-a-a-rg!

--
Les Earnest (Les@cs.Stanford.edu)               Phone:  415 941-3984
Computer Science Dept.; Stanford, CA 94305	  Fax:  415 941-3934
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: gdsomerv@eos.ncsu.edu (GARTH D SOMERVILLE)
Subject: Re: Crazy and incompetent drivers
Originator: gdsomerv@c00764-135wl.eos.ncsu.edu
Keywords: paradigm, official reality
Reply-To: somerville@bae.ncsu.edu (Garth Somerville)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:04:16 GMT


In article <39562@sophia.inria.fr>, chandy@marais.inria.fr (Chandra SHEKHAR) writes:

[about the huge death toll from car accidents]
|>Isn't it amazing that people get so easily paranoid about being infected
|>with AIDS by casual contact (the probability of which is negligible),
|>but have no qualms about indulging daily in an activity which kills
|>hundreds of thousands the world over every year?
|>

Indeed!
I am disgusted to say that North Carolina leads the country in
alcohol related car accidents.  What I have found curious living
in the land of Jesse Helmes' fans is that there is constant
discussion of how pornography should be made illegal because in
some cases it can lead to rape and child molestation.  But I have
never heard, or found any support at all, for a parallel 
argument that since alcohol clearly causes many deaths each year
due to drunk driving, it too should be outlawed.

-- 
Garth Somerville
somerville@bae.ncsu.edu
gdsomerv@eos.ncsu.edu
From: casseres@apple.com (David Casseres)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Car intentionally runs down cyclists!
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:12:09 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.soc
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.

In article <19975@mindlink.bc.ca>, Richard_Hennick@mindlink.bc.ca (Richard
Hennick) wrote:
> 
> ... I hope this case will compel a review of the "right to drive" in the
> States.  (It's in the Constitution, isn't it?)

You don't know the half of it.  It's the Right to Drive *Like an Asshole*,
or RDLA.  Our forefathers bled and died for it and it's in the Bill of
Rights in plain English -- just ask the average driver...

--

David Casseres
Exclaimer: Hey!
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,misc.consumers
From: scl@sasha.acc.Virginia.EDU (Steve Losen)
Subject: Re: Car intentionally runs down cyclists!
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:25:49 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.042407.7082@leland.Stanford.EDU>, pcl@leland.Stanford.EDU (Paul Chiao Liu) writes:
|> Hi,
|> The news on the radio is that the manslaughter charge on Linda Skates has 
|> been upped to murder (no degree specified by the report).  Apparently there
|> were several other witnesses in the area besides the cyclists, and they say
|> that she paced behind the cyclists for a while before accelerating and
|> smashing into the middle of the line.  Also, if convicted, she faces
|> 15 years to life imprisonment, so that probably indicates a charge of
|> 1st degree murder, as someone on the net thought.

Perhaps someone with knowlege of the law can clear up the various degrees
of murder charges.  As I understand it, to convict for 1st degree murder,
you have to prove premeditation, that the murderer planned in advance to
kill the victim.  For 2nd degree I believe that you just have to prove the
intent to kill, but not premeditation (a "heat of the moment" murder). 
Then there's a charge for intending to just injure someone, but ending up
killing them. (manslaughter?)  Note that it would be easier to convice a
jury of intent to injure than intent to kill.

Again, I'm no authority on the law, so bear with me.

The point is this.  In order to get a conviction, the prosecutor must
be able to prove the charge in court.  Lesser degrees of murder are
easier to prove.

From the information presented on usenet so far, I have my doubts that
this woman could be convicted of 1st degree murder.  Could a prosecutor
convince a jury that the woman planned the death of the cyclist during the
time that she followed the pack?   This looks more like 2nd degree or
manslaughter to me.  She clearly had no plan to kill the cyclist when she
first got in her car.  Later on she got annoyed with the cyclists, lost
her temper, and rammed them with unquestionable intent injure, and you
could probably prove intent to kill.

-- 
Steve Losen                     scl@virginia.edu

University of Virginia Academic Computing Center
From: m_thiba@pavo.concordia.ca (MICHAEL)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: "Australia's Bicycle Helmet Law" Re-Post and Addenda
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:42:00 GMT
Organization: Concordia University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

This is a re-post of 1237:
A friend of mine is interested in the hard numbers on bicycle ridership
changes, if any, since the passing of helmet-mandatory legislation in Australia
in the last few years.  She's preparing an article to address a proposed change in the 
Quebec codes to require bicycle helmets on all cycle-heads.  Much appreciated
would be the numbers and their source(s); she's a very serious person.
Excuse my bandwidth, but Christ I love the smell of technology in the 
morning!
Thanks much in advance.
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Language hobbles the brain.
                                                       Michael Thibault
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: alanf@cs.monash.edu.au (Alan Grant Finlay)
Subject: An undesirable consequence of mandatory helmets
Organization: Computer Science, Monash University, Australia
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:56:16 GMT

Australia has mandatory bicycle helmet laws.  I would like to share with you
another consequence besides the much mentioned reduction in the number of bike
users.

I have noticed that drivers behave more aggressively towards riders without
a helmet.  I have been a passenger with drivers who do this and their
justification is "he should be wearing a helmet".  The implication is that
a rider who breaks the traffic laws doesn't deserve the benefit of them.
That implication might be justifiable if helmets had any other function besides
protecting the rider.  I can't see how a driver can think that a cyclist not
wearing a helmet presents a threat but some do.

Perhaps the threat is that they have to take more care because the cyclist is
more vulnerable without a helmet.  That implies that helmets encourage drivers
to take more risks near cyclists than they otherwise would!

,-------Alan Finlay, email: alanf@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au, phone: (03)565-5225.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: gdsomerv@eos.ncsu.edu (GARTH D SOMERVILLE)
Subject: Re: Car intentionally runs down cyclists!
Originator: gdsomerv@baepm2.bae.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: somerville@bae.ncsu.edu (Garth Somerville)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 20:53:55 GMT


In article <1993Jan25.155745.1@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>, ccfa001@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu writes:
|>... The day may well come when I'll quit riding and go back to running,
|>or whatever.  I originally got into cycling to avoid the drawbacks of run-
|>ning:  stress on the joints, harder to stay cool, etc.; however, I was 
|>never once threatened by nuts operating two-ton steel weapons while I was
|>a runner.

I know how you feel.  I was a bike racer until my bike was stolen, then
I was a runner.  Then when I started graduate school, I developed severe
chest pain while running, so I went back to cycling.  I still can't run
without having chest pain, so I am stuck with cycling.  But it's great
and I'm only sorry that I once gave it up!  My experience with motorists
makes me untrusting of people and sometimes pretty mean, but I don't
really think of giving up cycling.

(The chest pain thing is totally bizarre, I saw an orthopedist about my
knee and mentioned it to him.  I think his idea is the most reasonable
explanation I have heard -- the joints where my ribs connect to the
sternum are "loose" and rub.  Anyone ever heard of this?)
-- 
Garth Somerville
somerville@bae.ncsu.edu
gdsomerv@eos.ncsu.edu
From: chandy@marais.inria.fr (Chandra SHEKHAR)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Crazy and incompetent drivers. (Was: Punishment for the Driver!)
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:02:01 GMT
Organization: INRIA, Sophia-Antipolis (Fr)

In article <shari.728056023@rlxdev>, shari@modcomp.uucp (Shari Bernhard)
writes:
|> zstern@adobe.com (Zalman Stern) writes:
|>  ....
|> hadn't even gotten a citation for wreckless driving!  It's been over a
                                     ^^^^^^^^^

Hilarious typo. Changes the meaning completely!

Chandy

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: ae505@yfn.ysu.edu (Frank Krygowski)
Subject: Re: Crazy and incompetent drivers. (Was: Punishment for the Driver!)
Organization: Youngstown State/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 04:14:44 GMT


Kip Ingram says he rides as far to the right of the white line as
he can.  The BEST I can say about that philosophy is that it's not
always safe.  (Many would say it's very seldom safe.)  An example:

Years back, after just having read Effective Cycling, I was on a 
minor state highway  riding with a friend.  Wet weather.

We came into an area where, for whatever reason, lots of semi-trailer
rigs were passing.  We were riding too far to the right.  They were
repeatedly passing us even with cars approaching, so they couldn't 
swing around.  Of course, they weren't going to slow for a clear 
spot if they didn't have to.  We had several of them miss us by
inches...

till I remembered the idea of riding out a couple feet.  Now, it 
was a bit scary when the next rig came up.  "Will he stop?  Or 
flatten us?"  He hung back until it was clear, of course, and passed
by swinging wide.  As did all the rest of the trucks.

Riding out in the lane was the only reasonable choice.
If we hugged the edge, they passed when it wasn't safe for us.  
(One slip on the wet road and we'd fall into them.)  By being out
in the lane, we prevented their passing until it was safe.

Of course, one of them could have flattened us.  But it would take
a certified sociopath ... and a certified sociopath could do it 
if we hugged the road edge.

If it's not safe for them to pass, don't let them pass.  It works.

Frank Krygowski  ae505@yfn.ysu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: sims@possum.den.mmc.com (John Sims)
Subject: Re: How do you ride in powerful wind?
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics, Denver
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:24:34 GMT

goodman@cats.ucsc.edu (Ron C Goodman) writes:


>As a non car-owning bicyclist, I ride in pretty much any weather conditions.
>But to be honest, here in Santa Cruz, the range of weather conditions is
>usually pretty favorable to cycling.

>However, the past few days we have had rain accompanied with fairly strong
>and gusty winds in the evening.  I was riding slowly down a long hill and found
>it quite difficult to maintain balance on the slippery road when a gust
>of wind hit.  I felt even less comfortable since it was dark and foggy and I
>envisioned slipping onto the road and being smooshed by a car.

>Are there techniques to riding succesfully in these kinds of conditions?

>-Ron Goodman
>goodman@cats.ucsc.edu

Here is Colorado, we had some bodacious winds last Friday.  On top of
that, my return route took me over some poorly used bike trails which
had packed snow/ice.  The main thing was to hunker down, and 
slow down, which wasn't hard, considering the wind :-), and take 
it easier.   Other than that, just be careful.
John
-- 
John Sims    sims@pogo.den.mmc.com
From: ccfa001@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Car intentionally runs down cyclists!
Date: 25 Jan 93 15:57:44 CST
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: orange.cc.utexas.edu

In article <1993Jan22.125410.13740@ncsu.edu>, gdsomerv@eos.ncsu.edu
(GARTH D SOMERVILLE) writes:

> Being hit from behind is scary, and obviously serious.  But what can you
> really do about it?  I mean, you can't go diving off into the ditch
> every time a car comes up behind you, and in how many of these cases
> do you have a truly clear comprehension that the vehicle is really
> going to hit you, and not just pass close or squeeze you over? 

Of course there are no guarantees on safety, regardless of the endeavor.
I just gave my 4 yr. old grandson his first new bike.  As much as I like
biking, one of the first things that went through my mind is "How will I
ever forgive myself if he should get run over ...."  One has to somehow
weigh the likelihood of tragedy against the likelihood of benefits to be
gained, and make a decision.  Most laws relating to public safety -- traffic
laws, etc. -- make the presumption that Joe or Julie Public is reasonably
sane and would not do such things as take life on a whim; unfortunately,
such laws are fairly useless against criminal lunatics.  I've at times
been so frustrated with rude and careless motorists that I want to quit
cycling -- to be treated to a "combat zone" every time you get on the bike
takes all the joy out of it and becomes just another brick in the stress
wall.  The day may well come when I'll quit riding and go back to running,
or whatever.  I originally got into cycling to avoid the drawbacks of run-
ning:  stress on the joints, harder to stay cool, etc.; however, I was 
never once threatened by nuts operating two-ton steel weapons while I was
a runner.


>                       ... but I would like to stress that it is not
> bicycling itself that is deadly, it is people.

Exactly.  But if I can't cycle without having nuts and idiots running me
off the road and attempting murder, perhaps it's time to take up a safer
hobby, like skydiving ... :-\
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc