HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Subject: Thanks Michael R.
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 08:57:09 EST


>09-Jan-93 robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) Re: Thank you all

>Utter tripe.  It is a metaphor for the rhetorical strategy of _Twilight of
>the Idols_; no more.

Glad you think so anyway.  I rather like the quotation myself.  

>Before which colonialists in particular?  The Indo-Aryans invaded about 4000
>years ago.  The Persians, under Darius I, invaded in 522 B.C.  Alexander the
>Great invaded in 326 B.C.  The Moguls invaded in 1526, and ruled until 1757,
>when they were kicked out by the British.  The British ruled for another 200
>years or so.

So they were correct in doing so I suppose?  You have at least correctly
placed Euro-American ventures in the proper framework of hegemonistic
barbarism. 

>For someone who has all the answers, you sure don't seem to know very much.

In fact there are advantages to not *knowing* too much, as you seem comfortble
asserting your obvious supremacy.  I would rather be in my position thank you.
At least from my vantage point of abyssmal ignorance and darkness, I may at
least still learn.
From: curt@access.digex.com (curt williams)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Hapkido weapons
Date: 8 Jan 1993 09:45:22 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

>DAH>My question is for all students of Hapkido: what weapons are
>DAH>taught in your style?
>
I was taught some cane by Quan Ro a few years back.  I believe he
also taught the short stick (called dan bon).



In addition to the cane, we practice with a variety of stick lengths,
ranging from slightly larger than the fist to a length slight less than
the person's height (e.g. 6 foot person uses 4 1/2 foot stick).  We have
also practiced with a variety of other weapons of opportunity, including
ballpoint pens.  We jokingly refer to it was "tooth pick style."  It's
not funny at all when someone who knows what they're doing nails you
in a pressure point with a ball point pen.

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Subject: Apologies?
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 13:49:20 EST


Thanks Andy (aka Mr. Tangential) for his description of Cathars and Bogomils
(sounds like an antacid).  Anyway, I know of at least one ethnographic writing
that refers to the Jews who were living in the region now called Israel as
"oriental" as opposed to the European Jews.  I don't think of middle eastern
as "western."  And I associate cabalistic Judaism with the middle east (and to
some extent north Africa for some reason).  

I don't think you need apologize for talking east/west philosophy in this
forum because I think the distinction is essential.  Others might disagree,
but the more I practice MA, the more I am finding out that the platitudes
people often mouth about how much of MA is a matter of mind have become more
and more real to me as time goes on.   

One interesting discussion (I think) is about the "hard vs. soft" issue.  My
view is that "hard" and "soft" are totally misinterpreted typically.  I have
had a black belt TKD instructor tell me... "TKD is the ultimate hard style..."
Because he's my friend, I didn't let him know that I thought of that as a
limitation.  I say that because hardness, as defined by my teacher from China,
is equated with being stiff.  In reality, on observing his class, I did see
that many of them looked stiff, but more importantly, I think their definition
of "hard" would be more like "direct."  That is, their system deals with power
above all, in very straight lines of attack.

But amazingly, I think that irrespective of how my teacher defines "hard" or
how TKD people may view "hard" the reality of how the socalled "soft stylists"
view softness (if they really practice their art for combat) is that softness
is the way by which one achieves the most effective striking and defense
techniques.  That is, having fluidity and coordination net you real hardness.

And, I think the misinterpretation (if indeed that is what it is), has to do
with eastern and western notions of what is.

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: Car Jack
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:58:30 GMT

(curt williams) writes:
>>Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought it took twelve not-guilties.
>>Inability to come to a unanimous verdict results in a mistrial, not
>>an acquittal.  Is that wrong?  (Talking about US law, of course.)
>
>Technically, you do have a hung jury and the state could retry the
>case.  Often, they don't even bother.  Even if they do, it still
>only takes one.................

It only takes one in Russian roulette also.  Far better IMO to stay
out of the clutches of the criminal "justice" system.
--
Richard A. Drury                    National Institutes of Health
drury@helix.nih.gov                 31/B3C27, Bethesda, MD, USA
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: high school kids
Date: 4 Jan 93 14:50:12 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1i7p7iINN380@mirror.digex.com> curt@access.digex.com (curt williams) writes:
>a well coached high school wrestler can kick most martial artists butt.  

	I really can't agree with that.  A well coached collegiate wrestler,
maybe...  

>If you've spent 6 months honestly training and don't feel you can 
>reasonably defend yourself, it's time to switch 

		In my opinion, in six months you've barely begun to 
learn how to train, never mind how to defend yourself.  How many hours
a day do the Marines spend in hand-to-hand combat training, and how many
in rigorous physical conditioning?
From: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM (Garth)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Attitide to female during sparring.
Date: 12 Jan 1993 21:42:29 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: dojo.west.sun.com

In article 1icf72INNglq@mercury.kingston.ac.uk, cs_e445@ceres (Vlod Kalicun) writes:
>Hello all,
>We sometimes have free-sparring in our karate lession, semi-contact (ie. touch
>blows) between men and women.
>I am interested to hear about the attitides of people, about this.
>
>Should I as a man just treat the woman as an opponent and go in as hard as
>I would as if I was against another man, 

Yes.  Treat them as a man of the same skill level.  If they seem to get upset at this,
then tone it down.  I have only met a few women in the MA that were perturbed at
me for not cutting them slack.

>or should I put on 'kid-gloves'.?

No.  This doesn't help you, or them.  The idea of training is to improve,
if you go light people will get the idea that half-assed blocks and counters
will work on the street...not a good idea.

>	The idea is that we leave all ranks and positions outside the dojo
>	when we train, and shouldn't discriminate against women. Also in a 
>	real life situation an attacker might not be so discriminate.

Very true.  In fact it can be worse than this.  If you give someone the
false impression that they are better than they are, then they may get into
some problems that the otherwise could/would have avoided (Example: Walking
alone at night, going to the defence of someone being attacked - rather than call
the police).

>
>	Women are 'mostly' not as physically strong as men, and so are at a
		  ^^^^^^^^
>	disadvantage, and should be trated accordingly.

Good cover.


			= = = = = = =
  | Garth R. Doverspike		Sun Microsystems, S.E. Seattle |
  | garth.doverspike@west.sun.com			       |
From: matylonj@ccmail.orst.edu (John C. Matylonek)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Judo
Date: 5 Jan 1993 17:16:10 GMT
Organization: Oregon State University Libraries
NNTP-Posting-Host: standdx13.kerr.orst.edu
Summary: How about Kodokan Judo's future?
Keywords: Judo, Kodokan

In article <hannula.17@viikki.Helsinki.FI> hannula@viikki.Helsinki.FI (Jaakko Hannula (OPTOIM)) writes:
>From: hannula@viikki.Helsinki.FI (Jaakko Hannula (OPTOIM))
>Subject: Judo
>Summary: How about Kodokan Judo's future?
>Keywords: Judo, Kodokan
>Date: 5 Jan 93 16:26:27 GMT
>Mixed feelings about kodokan's future
>
>Visited recently Tokyo and payed my compulsory visit to Kodokan.
>What a change! Eight years ago that place was full of spirit and
>people. There was only a group of old masters in the Dai Dojo, the Joshibu
>had hardly no activity at all and everybody was complainin that they are 
>loosing the touch. The intenational division and the staff payed no
>interest as I popped in to say hello.
>
>As a many years board member of our Yudanshakai I felt very sad
>noticing that even Kodokan has been trapped by the illness. Did 
>the Olympics really manage to do all this? Who cares for a waza anymore?
>It seems that in Europe there are developing small groups who do it
>in the traditional way: we fight and do kata. And do not care for medals.
>
>Are there any similar experiences?
>
>Jaska Hannula, Helsinki University
 
Jaska:

Very interesting observations. Do you mean to say that the Kodokan is tired 
of competition? Or, that competition is somehow degrading the "art" of Judo 
versus the "sport"? I know that was my attitude before my long hiatus in 
Judo playing. However, I was younger then. I believe it retarded my 
development to a certain extent. Now, 5 years later, I'm back in and much 
more relaxed about "competition techniques". Yet, I am planning to do my 
competing in Kata forms. Do I also detect that ne-waza is being neglected at 
the Kodokan? Anyway, could you elaborate a little?

John Matylonek
Ni-Kyu
Corvallis, OR
From: jcohen@uucp (Jeff Cohen)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: T'ai Chi or Pa Kua in Palo Alto area
Date: 7 Jan 93 04:42:52 GMT
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Distribution: na
Organization: Oracle Corporation
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <28222@dog.ee.lbl.gov> TWChan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan) writes:
>Both gperkins@netcom.com (Glen C. Perkins) and coombs@ivan.uucp 
>ask about T'ai Chi or Pa Kua in the Palo Alto area.
> 
>Further, Glen writes:
> 
>  +I've heard the name Adam Hsu for years, and I know he's around here
>  +somewhere (near Stanford). I know he does taiji and think he might
>  +do the other two, but I don't really know anything about him. If
>  +anyone else cares to comment, we're listening!
>
>Adam Hsu teaches at his home in Cupertino on Wednesdays and at a
>park on Sundays.  The Wed. class is an hour each of Long Fist,
>Baji (that's spelled correctly), and 7 Harmony Praying Mantis.
>The Sunday class is Pa Kua, T'ai Chi, and Hsing-Yi.  He also has

The class schedule changed this year.  More classes are being offered in the
south bay and at his studio in SF.  The south bay schedule is:
Monday evenings: Long Fist, Chen Tai Chi
Wed evenings: xing-i, bagua, tai chi, and a short weapons class.
Fri evenings: Long Fist, Six Harmony Mantis (Terry has an extra harmony :-)
	      and baji
There are afternoon classes for Long Fist, mantis, baji and weapons on sundays,
in addition to the bagua, tai chi, and xing-i that Terry mentioned.  You
can call the school for more information at (415) 326-8253, or send me email.

Master Hsu was born in Shanghai, and he studied kung-fu in Taiwan for
twenty-five years before he came to the US in 1978.  He is well-known for his
mastery of Northern Chinese kung-fu styles.  

	Jeff Cohen
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Subject: Re: Escalation
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 14:31:24 EST

06-Jan-93 11:51	azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward)	Re: Escalation

>    I never leave my house without my buck knife, and I see no point in

>>I'm not convinced this is a good idea. You can expect your opponent to
>>escalate to at least the level of armament that you display. So if you pull a
>>knife, things get very serious. Better to learn the practice and mindset of
>>improvising a weapon from things to hand as required.

>>If the other guy pulls a knife, distract, then run like hell. Dont risk
>>going up against a well used knife.

>>The First Law of Combat has to be the Law of Superior Firepower:
>>If he has a knife, you need a gun. If he has a gun, you need a tank. If he
>>has a tank, you need an A10 etc.

For what it's worth, I agree with this as sentiment, however I never imagine
"going up against..." anything in particular.  If I have to fight with a guy
who has a knife, it's not because I have another choice and I am consciously 
deciding to do so.  I agree, if "...distract, then run like hell" is an
option, then by all means...  But I typically try to imagine the worst kind of
attacker that I can muster, and the worst possible circumstances, to gauge my
practice.  

With respect to knives therefore, while I practice techniques religiously, I
think the true discipline is to mentally prepare for your imminent death.  If
you imagine yourself in unavoidable conflict with an expert knife attacker,
you are going to have to commit yourself to winning the struggle even though
it means you will almost certainly die.  In fact I prefer to remove any
qualification--you will die.  I use this as my springboard.  Since I am going
to die, I must therefore determine the manner of my death.  I choose to die
fighting, and in that case I must fight as though I didn't care at all.  I
keep hoping that some resource in my soul will access these notions if I am
confronted with such a horror.  Otherwise the options aren't many.  Being
slashed and stabbed while you pray for you life or flail your arms uselessly
is not a productive option either--may as well die with excellence.

BTW, whomever it was who was advocating that the stab is better than the slash
(as a knife fighting technique) has obviously never seen "Surviving Edged
Weapons" (a very interesting police training video concerned with knife
wielders).  Clearly a good knife fighter is prepared to turn nearly anyone
into mulch.

Oddly, even given my pessistic stance, I do believe that there are many MA
techniques that will work very effectively to stop even an expert knife
fighter: IF ONLY YOU CAN KEEP YOUR HEAD!
From: tmis1692@altair.selu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: WANTED: Instructional Videos
Date: 7 Jan 93 15:04:05 -0600
Distribution: world
Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University

I would like a list of the best training videos from each style of martial arts
for collection purposes.  The ideal video would contain a section introducting
the style and its philosophy, a demonstration of the basic techniques and the
practical application of each, a solo form or kata, a two-man form or kata and
a demonstration of the major weapons as used in the style and finally, a
philosophical message from the instructor to wrap it up.  For example:

"Title of Video" by Author Name - Publisher Name - Phone Number

I would like to collect a library of such videos.  If the video has a "master"
demonstrating the style, that would be a plus.  Please send suggestions to me
and I will summarize for the list.


Thanks for participating,

Kevin Calmes - TMIS1692@selu.edu
From: gatenby@v2.cgu.mcc.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Date: 7 Jan 93 16:13:18 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre CGU

Charles Yeomans writes:
> Kotegaeshi could also be called "outward wrist twist" - one twists the wrist
> in the direction of the thumb by holding your friend's hand with
						^^^^^^
> your thumbs on the back of her hand , all sets of fingers pointing in 
> approximately the same direction and then twisting (actually with the
> hips)

Charles - this is NOT a good way to make friends ;-)

LPAF
Neil

 Neil Gatenby, Computer Graphics Unit,	| Email: gatenby@uk.ac.mcc.cgu.v2
 University of Manchester,		| Tel: (+44)61 275 6095
 Manchester M13 9PL, England.		| Fax: (+44)61 275 6040
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 	     Strive to Survive, Causing Least Suffering Possible
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Subject: Journey...
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 09:15:46 EST

10-Jan-93 13:29	osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)	Re: Well, well... (last)
>Read "The Journey of a Pilgrim" (I may not have that title quite right)

You have the title exactly right.  I read it quite some time ago, and I still
recite his mantra/prayer myself when I am in desperate trouble.  But Journey
of the Pilgrim is a book about (in my view) eastern Christian mysticism.  It
is the teeny weeny microcosmos of Christian thought.  Eastern mysticism and
practice has traditionally permeated action and thought, even outside the
cloister wall-agreed, the east that I speak of is probably dead.

>Basically, read anything up to about the 5th century CE and you will 	find
>that the flavors of early Christianity have a remarkably strong
>similarity that of the far east.

But this is dead in the west.  I agree however.

>And for that matter you can read 	about other Western traditions such as
>the Bogomils, Cathars,	Cabalistic Judaism, Sufism ("Whirling Dervishes").

I don't know what a Bogomil or Cathar is, however Cabalistic Judaism is (as I
have been told) deeply mystical, and not at all representative of anything I
would describe as western.

>Well, as far as Ch'an goes, this is certainly not so.  Intellectualism
>is considered essential although by no means sufficient.  Read a book 	on
>Ch'an and you will see that development of intellect is every bit as

THis is essentially where I am coming from. ALso, although while my esteemed
opponents have raised a gaggle of western philosphers (about which they
undoubtedly know more than I), they have never identified something like--
Nietzsche-ist practice, Ptolymaic practice, Hegelian practice, and so on.
Instead, they have put forth deceptive and lumpy reasoning that presumes that
these philosophers had virtue in their words alone, and that western mystical
practices, via Christianity (rosaries--give me a break), were somehow enmeshed
with the lineage of western thought.  Not so.  So there really is no
"practice" associated with western thought, as I first asserted.  On the other
hand, there is no disconnection between Lao Tze and practice.  Taoist's
practice.
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Shoes in the dojo (gasp!)
Date: 5 Jan 1993 01:43:37 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <hurd.726181938@sfu.ca> hurd@fraser.sfu.ca (Peter L. Hurd) writes:
>I've always felt that the main limiting factor in my karate training was
>the blisters sloughing off the bottom of my feet,

I really don't know how to relate to this.  Are you seriously suggesting
that you would be a significantly better karateka if you didn't have to 
worry about ripping apart your soles?

Why not wear shoes, then?  I realize there is the Japanese thing about 
wearing shoes indoors, and all, but which is more important, following
customs or following the 'way'?  Outside of karate class, how often do
you go around barefoot?

Practitioners of non-Japanese arts wear shoes while training to no apparent
ill-effect.  In fact, my biggest problem in this regard has been (to
paraphrase Funakoshi) "to make my training shoes my everyday shoes, and make
my everyday shoes my training shoes."  Or, at least, to find shoes suitable
for both roles.

I guess this is ultimately a question of whether martial arts are funny
suits and bowing, or whether they are a significant part of your
moment-to-moment existence.


-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
From: curt@access.digex.com (curt williams)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Wary about pre-class workouts (*puff puff*)
Date: 12 Jan 1993 23:30:26 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

>mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes:
>
>   I think some schools do overdo the "warmup" part of class.  Certainly 
>   it is very important to warmup, but I think endless pushups etc. are
>   not a good idea.  A better idea IMO is to concentrate on technique at


I think Mary posted the above.  I just posted a thread where I extolled
the virtues of conditioning for hours and hours each day.  Even I
have to admit that many of the schools that I am familiar with over-do
the warm-up / exercises also.

That's one of the criteria I use when judging schools.  If the instructor
is watching / encouraging / motivating students during the "warm-up /
conditioning" part of class, it's OK with me.  But when I see a guy
using (usually poorly supervised) exercise to burn class time while
he gabs on the phone, I hit the street.
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Karate Kata question: tekki series
Date: 10 Jan 93 05:56:29 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation


In article <memo.853163@cix.compulink.co.uk> bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>I write:
>>series differently. Most Okinawan styles perform these kata *quite* similarly
>>to the  way Shotokan performs them - although the kiba-dachi (horse stance)
>>used by most Okinawan systems is a little bit narrower than that favored
>>by most of the Shotokan stylists. Individual techniques may be performed

>The narrower stances (according to Kanazawa's kata books) were not called
>kiba dachi, but naihanchin dachi and one other (I can't remember it and I
>don't have the books to hand), certainly those stances are narrower and
>higher.

The Okinawan instructors I have trained with use the terms kiba-dachi and 
naihanchi-dachi interchangeably. Younger instructors (< 60 years of age)
do seem to prefer the former. This may just be a concession to the ubiquity
of Shotokan terminology, or perhaps Okinawan horses were more svelte than their
Japanese counterparts ;-). The Shotokan horse stance is rather exagerrated
by Okinawan standards, although this may be more due to differences in
physical proportions (Okinawans tend to have relatively short legs) between
Okinawans and "mainland" Japanese than anything else.

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tino@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (allen.j.tino)
Subject: Re: Anyone practice Gracie?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:40:54 GMT

From article <C0D4Dw.Exo@eis.calstate.edu>, by jlockha@eis.calstate.edu (Jame A Lockhart):

> There is a guy in my complex that claims to have been neighbors to the
> Gracie Family in Brazil.  He also claims to have trained with them for 9
> years.
> 
> He says that their system is rough and rugged and that the Gracies are
> psycho's that are out to hurt people.  He also says that they are
> unbeaten.  According to this person, their training and diet are
> unconventional (fruits and veggies only - no sheduled meals - and they
> train (strength) solely with body weight).
> 
> Any other info?

1) I know Rickson and Rorian well.  They are the sweetest folks you'll
ever meet.  Of course, this is the USA, not Brazil.  And I do give them
money. :)  I wouldn't make any disparaging remarks about their mother,
however.  They are used to balls-to-the-wall, all-out, "real" fighting --
and are ready to defend and demonstrate their style on the spot.
No bullshit.  How many of us can say the same?  (Hey, I guess those
guys ARE nuts! :)

2) Yes they do eat funny.  But I'm sure their diet is better than mine.

_______
Al Tino
tino@globe2.ATT.COM