HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: reply to harkins - followup braindead joke
Date: 23 Jan 93 01:30:49 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <106017@netnews.upenn.edu>, sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin) writes:
>  
>>From figoo@tebya.s.maslim Thu Jan 21 10:35:07 1993

>P.S. Tvoritelnyi padezh slova "maslo" pishetsia "maslom",
>     kretin. A datelnyi padezh mestoimenija "ty" pishetsia
>     "tebe", mudak.
>     
>     Sdohni.
>
Cute. It reminds me of an anecdote. A MGIMO (Moscow Institute of International
Relations) student receives an assignment to write an apology to the president
of an African state where our strategic missile has accidentally "landed" as
the result of a test launch failure. The student writes the "apology", submits
it to the professor and soon gets it back with the remark, "Very good, but
there must be no space after 'po' in 'poebat'', 'na huj' must be written 
separately, and you should use capital letters for 'chernaya obezyana' - 
you are addressing the president of a friendly state!" :)






-- 
---
Thus spake Kalmoth the Dreaded, Bane of the Forests of Gnoy.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:10830 soc.culture.soviet:12509
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 12:41:22 EST
From: Boris A. Veytsman <BAV2@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: CSCE minority commissioner on LATVIA
 <93026.125612BAV2@psuvm.psu.edu> <1993Jan27.113017.1@cc.helsinki.fi>

In article <1993Jan27.113017.1@cc.helsinki.fi>, thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
(Tapani Hietaniemi) says (quotation are from my article):
>
>
B> Maybe it's my error. But what I'm convinced in is that Latvian,
B> Estonian, Ukrainian Govts cannot be Govts of Latvians, Estonians,
B> Ukrainians as ethnic groups but must represent interests of the
B> whole population.
>
>
>Not the whole POPULATION. The governments of REPUBLICS should represent
>the will of their CITIZENS.
>

This is the root of our arguments. You deny the right  of
Russian-speaking population ('Migrants') to citizenship and
fair representation  & protection, I recognize it.

May I say that your argument is    very dangerous. Imagine
the following situation. More than 80% of Portugals are
black-haired. The percentage of redheads is quite small.
Let the black-hair party win the next elections and change
the Portugal constitution, denying citizenship to redheads
(maybe using some rigmarole about historical guilt of redheads.
Or that black-haired are natives, and redheads are migrants).
It would be very democratic, they would have more than 2/3
of the parliament. And they can obtain support of the
Congress of Black-Haired Citizens of Portugal. After that
one can press redheads to emigrate (leave you property here, please!)

Any international organization you quoted in this newsgroup
would say that rights of CITIZENS of Portugal are not violated.
And migrants... Who is concerned about them, anyway?

[I ask Portugals to excuse me for using their nice and hospitable -
I checked it - country in this argument.]

And last point. Dear Tapani, can you explain me, why 7% Swedes
in Finland have right to have their language accepted as the
state one, and much greater percentage of Russians in Baltic
(you can tell exact figures) have not such right?

-Boris
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi (Tapani Hietaniemi)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Emigration data on LATVIA
Date: 27 Jan 93 13:23:11 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki


There has been some discussion on emigration from Latvia. In this
context the following figures might be intresting.
(Source: Baltlist)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Translated from Latvian text.

Republic of Latvia Interior Ministry
December 4, 1992
No. 3/5-620

     I am sending you data about emigration from the Republic of
Latvia to other countries as permanent residents during the
period of 1980 until 1992.

     Simultaneously, I inform you that the main reason for emigration was
reuniting with family.

A. Baltacis
Chairman, Visa & Passport Department
Republic of Latvia Interior Ministry

EMIGRATION DATA FOR LATVIA

Total Emigration:
        1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992

Israel  1151  241  213   81   66   77   75  250  530 2053 3177  917  653
USA        5    6    4    4    2    6    4    6   76   63  158  687  908
Germany   41   38   22    6   14   10   31  106  128  277  291  241  274
Others (data not provided, RD)
TOTAL   1313  297  250  114   99  118  119  393  789 2472 3751 1946 1855

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Ethnic  Identity:

TO ISRAEL

Total of 917    in 1991 *  total of 653 in 1992
Russians            83  *                   172
Ukranians           19  *                    11
Byelorussians       10  *                     1
Latvians            17  *                    15
Others              13  *                    12
Jews(84% of total) 775  *   (67% of total)  442
-------------------------------------------------

TO  USA,  CANADA  &  AUSTRALIA

Total of 755     in 1991   Total of 908 in 1992
Russians             93 *                   90
Latvians             27 *                   34
Byelorussians        15 *                   25
Ukranians            -- *                   33
Others               20 *                   20
Jews (73% of total) 558 *   (77% of total  706
-------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------

Forwarded without permission and without comment by
the observer
Tapani Hietaniemi, Universitas Helsingiensis
                   urbs fennorum
From: sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Recalling in sorrow the boring memory of Mudlu the Undead
Date: 21 Jan 93 20:47:43 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1993Jan21.171046.31651@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF) writes:
>In article <105872@netnews.upenn.edu>, sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin) writes:


>Everybody was warned THRICE not to step into the shit!

 Well, as you correctly guessed, I was afraid of 
 followups.

>> It makes me wonder why, you people, are doing this?
>> Who cares what the program will pick up from the
>> database?  

>Well... First, the mudlu won't post anything as a followup 
>to my message, because its coordinator already knows better
>NOT to argue with me, after I had some fun with it in news.admin.policy.
>Second, as the abovementioned discussion in news.admin.policy
>revealed, there is nothing that can be done about the mudlu
>now legally, and the number of its postings has only weak dependence
>on the number of followups, there is no harm if somebody throws
>a mudlu-bait once more. Third, why U can tease the mudlu thing
>and I am denied this right? $@)

  About 'weak dependence'. I don't agree. My KILL file 
  always catches followups from the program, but only
  a few original postings. The way the program reacts
  is quite clear: it takes one sentence from your post
  and adds numerous quotations. That's why my 'teasing'
  contained one sentence unrelated to any previous topics.
  The reaction looked like a word's swap from the subject
  line (that's original sentence, constructed by the program-
  it can't use swear words from the body of the message:)
  and then random database extraction.
  Last, about 'teasing'. I promise not to reply to any
  followups from the program, however I wanted to see
  the reaction on the two absolutely different & irrelevant
  sentences. And, as I wrote, the other reason was to 
  show people who spend their brains looking for arguments
  that it's not necessary. Just write one keyword.

  I'm quite confident that the program needs your reply
  to be initiated.

>Fourth, U must be extremely grateful for my not having flamed U 4 spelling
>errors. Use a bloody blasted flaming spell-checker sometimes!

  I'm not. For the simple reason - don't want to mess
  with editor, spell-checker and stuff. Your flames
  about my spelling errors would have been much easier
  for me :)

>With best regards from the Lurking Beasts of the Forests of Gnoy who
>have just finished feasting on the bloated corpse of a certain National
>Guard Soldier near Scranton, PA and now turn their long bloodied muzzles
>in search of the next victim.

  I appreciate that. The Little Soldier kinda pisses me
  off. Shall we unscrew his balls?

>Thus spake Kalmoth the Dreaded, Bane of the Forests of Gnoy.


  S.B. 

Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:10756 soc.culture.soviet:12447
From: sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: The Grand Duchy of Transdniestria?
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:43:34 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.soviet
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1993Jan27.014908.14110@dxcern.cern.ch> gen@vsnhd7.cern.ch (Eugene Chudakov) writes:

>   One my friend who had visited Pechory few weeks ago wrote me in 
>an e-mail that the local people got upset about Estonian claims and
>have no will to go into Estonia. 

  No wonder. Firstly, they will be denied in honorable
  Estonian citizenship as being non-ethnic Estonians,
  then they will be called "occupiers" and finally
  will be asked to leave. 

>   The claim was done, however, on a legitimate ground since this place
>was given by the soviet government to Estonia in 1920, perhaps in a trade
>for some political favours (there were still some white troops hanging
>around in Estonia). Sometimes after 1940 the internal border was changed
>again. As far as Estonia wanted to restore the pre-1940
>status, they claimed this land back. Seems logical.

  To me too. And I'd add, (using the same logic - doesn't
  hurt) Russia shall cut off a substantial piece of 
  property in favor of suffered from russification Crimean
  Tatars (SOB, grand duke russificator Potemkin). 
  Did I forget to mention somebody? Who wants a piece..?
  Sure, I did. But don't care :-)

>   Using the same legal logic Russia may claim the left bank of Dniester back.

   No. They (sufferers from russification) will not
   recognize that claim to be a legitimate one. 
   They think (isn't it kinda "dedovskaja logika"?
   : "menia, kogda "molodym" byli - pizdili, vot i ja,
     kogda "dedom" budu "molodyh" pizdit' stanu")
   their time has come - time to take from "occupiers".

>   Evgeni 

 S.B.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi (Tapani Hietaniemi)
Subject: Re: Soviet Estonia (R.I.P.)
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:49:29 GMT

In article <12408@kesson.ed.ac.uk>, alexei@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Alexei Moiseyev) writes:
> Tapani Hietaniemi writes:
> In article <1993Jan13.181157.19302@husc3.harvard.edu>, verbit@widder.harvard.
> edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:
>>> In article <1993Jan13.163829.7828@synapse.bms.com> henry@bms.com writes:
>>>>It was true for every republic, I do not 
>>>>see how it was different in Latvia,Litva & Estonia.
>>> 
>>> 	It was not different, really. 
>>> 	USSR was a fairly unitarian state.
> 
> 
> 
>>The Soviet oppression and "Imperial" features might have been somewhat
>>similar everywhere in Imperium, but the Baltic states have and had a
>>different kind of European history
> .....
> 
> Does this entitle them to a special treatment?  Does THIS make
> violations of human rights in the Baltics more outrageous than in
> Central Asia?

Of course not. But it explains partly why there are no human rights violations
(at least as a mass phenomenon, there have been some single cases even
in Finland) in Estonia and why the Central Asia faces a multiple war.

People accusing Estonia of human rights violations have not been able
to point any - they have just shown that they are dissatisfied with
the existing Estonian citizenship legislation.


- Tapani Hietaniemi


Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:10708 soc.culture.soviet:12379
From: milsh@nmr-z.mgh.harvard.edu (Alex Milshteyn)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: s NAU^NOJ TO^KI ZRENIQ, OTKUDA BER$TSQ TAKOE GOWNO, KAK wLADISLAW?
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:11:21 GMT
Organization: argonisaishen


BTW, govno ili gavno? I vsegda dumal, chto vtoraia versiia verna.
Opinions appreciated.



Alex
-- 
Alexander M. Milshteyn M.D.   <milsh@cipr-server.mgh.harvard.edu>
CIPR, MGH in Boston, MA.     (617)724-9507 Vox  (617)726-7830 Fax
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi (Tapani Hietaniemi)
Subject: The BALTIC occupation (update)
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 12:44:16 GMT


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
             UPDATING THE FACTS ON BALTIC OCCUPATION
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

- About a year ago, there were 150 000 Red army occupants in the three
Baltic states. During the last year 100 000 have left the area, leaving
50 000, which is still enough for purposes of occupation (Source: AP).

- Only Lithuania has signed a treaty with Russia on withdrawal of Russian
troops. The negotiations of Russia with Latvia and Estonia have come in a
standstill. The Estonian negotiators claim that Russia is demanding help
for construction of apartments for (Soviet) officers and, moreover,
Russia wants to retain some military bases in Estonia, which the Estonian
government finds unacceptable.

- The red army controls still 7 per cent of the territorium of the Estonian
republic.

- According to the US ambassador in Estonia, Robert Frasure, it is "unlikely"
that Estonia will sign a treaty with Russia on troop withdrawal issue, but
anyhow he claims that it were "surprising" if there were any Russian
troops in Estonia in September '93 (Source: AP). 

We'll see. Pozhivyom, uvidim!

- The troops are leaving with mixed sentiments. Some commanders find
it natural that the will of the Estonian citizens should be respected,
some - unknown - military men paint huge graffitis before withdrawal:
                   
                    "MY VERNYOMSYA!"

                   
with best regards
Tapani Hietaniemi, Universitas Helsingiensis
                   urbs fennorum

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: STCL000 <STCL@MUSIC.CC.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re:Shevron's Big Game in Kazakhstan
Organization: University of Georgia
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 02:40:03 GMT

I want to clarify a little bit this issue. Two years ago few juicy
facts about this "BIG GAME" got to newspapers. May be they will help
you to understand why Gaidar called this deal "criminal".As it was
proposed initially Chevrov had to get exclusive rights to pump Kazak
oil for 20 years . In return Chevron would give few billion dollars
in loans to xSU and at the end of the term xSU would have to pay this
loan back to Shevron (with interestof course). Sound like absurd,
doesn't it ? By the way, during " investigation " it was discovered
that Shevron spend about one million dollars " on  negotiation ".
None of the high Shevron officers could explain on what exactly this
money had been spent  on. Make a guess.

If you need more information fell free to ask.

(Sorry for my bad English).

Best regards,
Alexander Schwarzkopf.
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Subject: Your subscription to list TPS-L
Date: 27 Jan 93 23:52:29 GMT
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Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: thietani@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Tapani Hietaniemi)
Subject: Re: CSCE minority commissioner on LATVIA
Organization: University of Helsinki
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 14:40:58 GMT

Mikhail S. Verbitsky (verbit@COOLIDGE.HARVARD.EDU) wrote:

> >>You are
> >>trying to say that the Baltics are pressing the non-citizens to emigrate.
> >>Well, you should try to substantiate your claim with some evidence. Which
> >>might be hard.
> 
> >Ok. A lot of Russian-speaking people speak about pressing. Are they all
> >liars? Have I not read Riga newspapers?
> 
> To read scs is enough to gain evidence, if one is not insisting
> on seeing only what he wants. The recent article written
> by some patriot reads "There is PLENTY of space in Russia
> for Baltic Russians" or some such. Clearly, Russian-speakers
> in Baltics *are* pressed to leave - at least by halfwits
> like the author of these words. 


Hard pressure indeed. I wonder how long you can stand such a verbal
torture. 

And, besides, literally taken, the information is correct: Russia
is a large country.

Anyhow, the non-citizens must decide what IS their country
and what is not. There are PLENTY of alternatives.


> It seems to me
> that unfortunately said halfwits are in majority among
> citizens of Estonia and Latvia.


That's your Chauvinist evaluation.

- Tapani Hietaniemi

Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: kosinov@ceg.uiuc.edu (Greg Kosinovsky)
Subject: Re: My .2*10^(-2) $ (Was: Robert Conquest's _The Grea
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 02:19:45 GMT

simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov) writes:

>In article <kosinov.727559248@ceg.uiuc.edu> kosinov@ceg.uiuc.edu (Greg Kosinovsky) writes:

>I skip the part I agree with (-:

>> Given a choice between two essentially similar canditates, ex-Sovoks (who are
>>mostly Jewish) went for the one who didn't seem hostile towards Israel.
>I hope you mean Bush.

>FYI,Clinton's cabinet has bunch of Jews in his cabinet, and all
>of them are connected with Israeli "Peace Now" - very leftist party,
>which wants to give everything to Arabs immediately. It is not regarded
>as a pro-Israel party by most Israelis, as far as I understand it.
>This info was on-line in "israeline" several days ago, I can dig up
>references, if you want.

>Senya

  Well, being friends of Peace Now types was precisely the forte of the Bush Administraion, including
its State Department Jews. If this trend is going to continue under the incoming administration, then
it's really unfortunate, indeed.
 I would really appreciate some references on this one, and if you're right, then, I guess, we'll have
to wait for Kemp administration for Israel to be treated fairly around Washington.

Greg K.

Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:10716 soc.culture.soviet:12394
From: mkagalen@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (michael kagalenko)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: The Grand Duchy of Transdniestria?
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:48:32 GMT
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA

In article <1993Jan25.172930.1@cc.helsinki.fi> thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi (Tapani Hietaniemi) writes:
>
>Reading the Radio Free Europe reports is interesting indeed!
>The detail below got my attention this time:
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>> LEBED URGES TERRITORIAL CHANGES IN MOLDOVA. Lt.-Gen.  Aleksandr
>> Lebed, commander of Russia's 14th Army in Moldova, warned in
>> Pravda of 20 January that hostilities may resume "at any moment"
>  ^^^^^^
???? I believe said newspaper was closed by Eltsin's decree together 
with prohibition of communist party. Am I wrong ?
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:10812 soc.culture.soviet:12498
From: anand@CADENCE.COM (Anand Bemra)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Robert Conquest's _The Great Terror_
Date: 28 Jan 93 16:47:59 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@INDYCMS.BITNET>

zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) writes:


>Try the Black hysteria.  Sacco and Vanzetti were anarchists, and like
>the original Chicago Eight, they were tried as such.  But the earlier

>Haymarket case has the sad merits of being an absolutely
>incontrovertible, and belatedly admitted, travesty of justice.

>In the absence of any evidence of violent action, Albert Parsons, August
>Spies, George Engel, and Adolph Fischer were tried and executed as
>advocates of anarchism.  Six years afler their execution, the Illinois
>Governor John Peter Altgeld issued an unconditional pardon of the
>surviving anarchist co-defendants of Parsons, -- Fielden, Schwab, and
>Neebe, -- denouncing the ruling of Judge Gary in no uncertain terms:

>       "In all the centuries during which government has been
>       maintained among men, and crime has been punished, no judge
>       in a civilized country has ever laid down such a rule."

The eighth person committed suicide in his cell the day before the
execution. The anarchists were fighting for eight-hour work day.
The May Day (May 1) is celebrated in memory of those Chicago martyrs.
(Ref: Daniel Guerin's "Anarchism")




--
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These are my opinions, not my employer's.