From: brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder)
Subject: Re: John Cage is Dead
Organization: Quake Public Access
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 22:31:35 GMT

In article <2A904248.26806@orion.oac.uci.edu> jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley) writes:
>In article <Bt3xMp.xL@quake.sylmar.ca.us> brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
>>I'm all for letting people think whatever they want about Cage, and I happen 
>>to think he produced garbage, and I am contempuous of him and of those
>>pretentious "art lovers" who fawn at his feet (or grave as it were).  

>Why?  Do you know him?  [Or anyone (or everyone) who enjoys his 
>music for that matter?]   You certainly can dislike his music, but
>why does that translate into contempt for the man.  

How can you divide the two in a total evaluation of how you feel about his
death?  Who knows, maybe Stalin was a really nice guy when he wasn't
"at work", but that doesn't stop me from having contempt for him.  Since
the only "relationship" I have with Cage is through his work, that is the
only grounds on which I can base my evaluations.  Even is he was a kindly
gentleman, his effect on the music world makes his overall impact on the
world (and me in particular) quite negative.

>From all indications
>he didn't seem contemptible.  (It's easier to show the opposite of the
>folly you make here.  Wagner's music is marvellous, but his views
>make the man repugnant.)

Actually, that's not a bad example.  If you just heard (obviously belatedly)
that Wagner had died, would you feel good or bad about it?  Personally,
I would have somewhat mixed feelings since his primary connection with me
was through his (fairly good) music, but based on what I know about his
political and personal habits, I would not shed any tears, nor would I
send a boquet.  Would you?

>>As >someone who has done more to destroy good music than 
>			      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>almost anyone else this century, 

>Cage composed music.  Are you saying that, because John Cage composed, 
>other music was destroyed.  Beethoven's music still exists.  
>As does Mozart's, Verdi's, Bach's, etc. etc.  I don't know how if
>anything Cage did has changed our interpretation of older music.
>I sorta doubt it though.  Thus, music has survived John Cage.

Please read my discussion of this subject in my recent reply to Roger 
Lustig.  

I should add though, that I can attribute the fact there have been no
composers of the caliber of a Beethoven since the advent of this anti-musical
movement arose, and I think that people like Cage are the cause.  Just look
at the musical programs from your local symphony.  Listen to the people
who make the selections for what will be performed.  I know that here in
LA, the musical establishment resents the philistine tastes of the audiences
who are enthusiastic about Mozart, Beethoven, and Tchaikovsky, but not for
the more modern composers.  My impression is that this is not atypical.
Do you disagree?

>I'm unfamiliar with his abilities as a performer?  Did he ever perform
>works other than his own?  Did he give a pathetic performance of 
>some old masterpiece?  Is this how John Cage destroyed music?

By redefining it in the eyes of the "academic world" as including non-music.
If I managed to get people to agree that "fruit" included not only small
edible bits of vegetable matter, but transistor radios, stones, 
thunder storms, spoiled milk, sweet tarts, and ball point pens, I would have
destroyed the idea of "fruit" and going to a "fruit stand" would be a
much different experience than it had been before the change.  Get it?

>Or is his music parasitically displacing other music.  

Indeed, the KIND of music he strove to make "acceptable" does push out
other music, both in performances, and (more importantly) in the work
and education of new composers.  Imagine the reaction of the musical
world today if a young Mozart or Rachmaninoff started to write their
kind of music!  They wouldn't be considered serious composers, would they?
How can you explain that the music of the old masters is what most people
want to listen to, rather than the moderns?  Has there been a change?
What kind of people promoted this change?

>> I would hope to see most music lovers applaud his passing.

>This is sick.  

No more sick than doctors applauding the passing of Dr. Mengele.

--Brian

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical