HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: smmcafee@mtu.edu (Sean McAfee)
Subject: Circle Guide?
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:44:37 GMT

Does anyone out there know when the revised Circle Guide to Pagan Resources
(I think I got the name right) is coming out?  I ordered one earlier this
year, but got a note saying that the current edition was out of print, that
they will be ready to send out the new edition soon, that it will cost
an as-yet-unspecified amount more than the old one, and that my account had
been credited with the amount I had sent.  Haven't heard anything since.

Oh, and while I'm at it...I got back to school just in time to catch the
tail end of a thread about Scott Mayo losing his net access.  Last May Scott
had told me how to get a copy of his survey results (sending him a message
with the subject "@daemon info pagans"), but it hasn't worked.  If someone
could send me a copy of said survey results, I'd be eternally thankful.
Well, thankful for at least a week, anyway.  :)

If you respond to this message, please mail me or post and mail me.  It's not
that I don't read the group frequently--I do--but I'm still catching up on
the ~500 articles that were waiting for me at the end of the summer.

Thanks and blessed be!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's for real, all right.  But real what?  It doesn't       Sean McAfee
talk...Is it evil?  Good?  Or just a GEEK!"                smmcafee@mtu.edu
Nick, "Brother Power, the Geek" #1
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Subject: Re: ancestors stories
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 00:46:00 GMT

In article <NX3oqB1w165w@brewich.hou.tx.us>, gerda@brewich.hou.tx.us (Gerda Thunarsson) writes...
>Tammy,
> 
>You're so right about grandparents stories, and even other elders if 
>possible.  i've let 3 of 4 grandparents die with stories untold.  and the 
>remaining grandmother doesn't care, "what's the use of telling those old 
>stories?" is her attitude.
> 

Unfortunately I have found that this is a common sentiment among
eldars.  They grew up with the stories being told, so it was
an every day thing.  They don't understand how *starved* we are
for them.  Whatever you do, get those stories.

You will have to be crafty in the way you get them.  Get into a
conversation and "innocently" ask a question.  You, I'm sure, 
understand the routine.  Don't just ask about stories, ask about
what dad was like as a kid or point at a picture and ask who is
that or such.

Take some paper and write down all you know about your family.
Then use it as a guide post.  Often, if they get lost in talking
you will get the greatest stories.

Tammy
From: hulda@Eagles.uucp (Hulda Thunarsson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: womens mysteries?
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 19:41:33 CDT
Organization: Eagles Reaches Church of Asatru - Elder Hof

Sorry Ailsa,
I just can't let this one go by.
Men created womens mysteries to make a profit from women. Do your 
homework. I'm a woman, like yourself but I have to say this, 
statements like the one you just made make me want to cut my hair, wear 
trousers and put a sock in the front...
}iIt began with that old trickster Gerald Gardner and was passed on 
through the likes of Alexander and Buckland. What people commanly refer 
to as "feminine mysteries" or modern day "wicca" (that includes all forms 
of wicca i.e. Dianic) is really neither an old religion nor mysteriousat 
all. The fact is todays "wicca" is a new and relatively ecclectic 
psuedo-religion based upon Golden Dawn and other forms of ceremonial 
magick, smatterings of Celtic, Saxon and Germanic Folklore and more than 
just a small portion of Gardners' personal beliefs and view points.
If you wish to find out about the true Lord and Lady and the 
roots of the "old religion" I, my husband and others that we associate 
with would be more than happy to share such information and historical 
references with you.
Wassail!
                          Hulda Thunarsson
From: donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: pagan self-defense
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 07:55:01 CDT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes:
[...]
> So, if you do those things and still want the gun, then go
> ahead and get it/them.  Then, follow some basic safety
> precautions. (e.g. Don't leave the gun loaded, or easily
> accessible to anyone.)

Tim... Do you really think that if an intruder is in your house you 
are going to have the time and presence of mind to load your gun? I 
keep mine loaded, without a shell in the chamber except when I am 
travelling, and in the headboard of my bed. I do agree with everything 
else you said. The only way to keep a gun is in the full knowledge 
that you can and will use it should the need arise. And the only way 
to keep it safely is education and training. Locking it away is dumb 
as well, for the same reason keeping it unloaded won't work. You won't 
have time to unlock it.

Did you know that the average exchange of gunfire takes place at less 
then 12 feet and takes less then 4 seconds?

BTW, I also load my pistol with an alternating load of Glazer safety 
slugs, Silver-tip hollow points, and parabellum solids. The Glazer's 
will not go thru walls, the hollow points will destroy anything they 
hit, and the 9mm Parabellum has more penetration than a .357 and will 
penetrate most brands of body armor, as well as stop the engine of a 
mack truck.

"An armed society is a polite society."


--------------------
Donal, SysAdmin of The Brewer's Witch BBS -- +1 713 272 7350
(Internet) donal@brewich.hou.tx.us  (Work) bill%pssi@lobster.hou.tx.us
(CIS) 76460,1443 
(SCA) Ld. Donal Dubh, IC of Dun Bruddair, B of the Stargate, K of Ansteorra
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: uphrrmk@Msu.oscs.montana.edu (DEATH)
Subject: Re: books for new pagans
Reply-To: uphrrmk@Msu.oscs.montana.edu (DEATH)
Organization: Montana State University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:17:57 GMT

In article <gLisqB5w165w@Eagles.uucp>, vlaad@Eagles.uucp (Vlaad Thunarsson) writes:
>dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:
>
>> In article <1992Sep4.233224.7745@news.cs.brandeis.edu>, st923058@pip.cc.brand
>> 
>> > My problem is that I am eighteen years old and have recently
>> > informed my parents that I have been Wiccan for over a year. Now they want 
>> > book about it to read so they can decide whether or not they are going to
>> > disown me. (I HOPE I'm only joking...) Does anyone have any suggestions,
>> > either for books of the parentally readable type or for a good explanation
>> > I can give them?
>> 
>> I'm going to be thirty soon, but I'm in the same situation of trying to
>> come out to my mother.  I gave her a copy of _The Mists of Avalon_ to
>> try to warm her up a bit.  She loved the book and we had a lot of discussion
>> about some of the ideas in it.  I feel more comfortable now that she won't
>> just turn off to the idea.  For Christmas, I'll try a good non-fiction book,
>> maybe _Spiral Dance_, to show her that some thoughtful people take this stuff
>> seriously.  I figure I have two years -- my deadline is to get them used to
>> the idea before my baby talks well enough to say "We had a neat ritual for
>> Beltane, grammy."
>> 
>
>I am in a similar situation; but I am following Asatru.  I've been contemplating
>loaning my mother my copy of Edred's  _Book_of_Troth_.  I don't think that 
>"easing" them into the idea is the way.  IMHO, one should either tell them,
>or not tell them.  Period.
>
>RE: neat ritual at beltane, grammy....
>MUAHAHAHAHAAH>.....  That really had me rolling...
>I liked it, too...Hmmm... what would be a good book...How about War for the
Oaks, if they're fiction-inclined?  If not...  hmmmmph.  Good question.  I'd be
dealing with this problem, too, if it weren't for my decision not to speak to
my mother again, and for good reason.  I'm twenty-one, and I've read many books
on the subject, but I can't think of a good book philosophy-wise on the
subjects at hand.(I'm a Celt, so maybe some Celtic folktales might do the
trick, if you're into that sort of thing.  Blessed be.  La Morte.



Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: mephron@tronsbox.xei.com (Mephron)
Subject: Re: Wicca and the SCA
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 05:21:37 GMT

<Commentary on pentagrams as armory in the SCA deleted, including remarks 
from Awful Bunnyfur>

Peter, I support your efforts to change things.  But I warn you:  I've been
heralding for two years, seen this thing pop through twice in that time.  Both
times, the Laurel King of Arms (the head herald in the SCA) has said "No".
Considering the current one (Bruce Draconarius) is somewhat of a conservative,
I think it won't go through this time.

<sigh>  Some of these dopes are a real pain.  I tell ya, give me some more 
years under the belt, and I might put in a bid for LKoA, just for kicks.
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: New pagans and reading
Date: 9 Sep 92 05:54:49 GMT
	<2AAC1F36.23983@news.service.uci.edu> 
	<1992Sep8.193403.4038@access.digex.com>
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.

In article <1992Sep8.193403.4038@access.digex.com> 
corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra) writes:
>However, I must not have made my question clear. It's not that women's
>mysteries frighten or worry me, it's that I can't find anyone who knows
>diddlybop about men's mysteries. The session I went to at Ecumenicon was
>worthless. Nothing was said except that smoe of the men were afraid to open
>up because of the women in the room, and subsequently the whole thing turned
>into one big whine session. Nobody discussed men's mysteries at all, and 
>I'm curious. Is there such a thing? Does it go beyond the sweat lodge?
>What are it's roots? Things like that.

Are you serious? Well, there's the whole wildman/drum banging thing,
that's (oh what's his name, damn I can't remember, you know, Iron Man
Jake, or something like that?) and Sam Keane. If you want something a 
bit more scholarly, there is the works of Joseph Campbell and you can 
follow his references for an entire lifetime if you so chose. The whole 
world is mostly man's work, you have to search to find woman's work. Not 
that a man can't learn from women or cultures outside of the cultures of 
self, ie we are all ethnics, just some of us don't know it yet. So, you
asked, is there such a thing as the men's movement, yes there is. Many
book stores have a section just on this topic. Sweat lodge? That's
American, I'm not so sure about its maleness. Roots? Basically the last
12,000 years, ie the neolithic, from what I can tell, aka HIStory.
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: pagan self-defense
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 14 Sep 92 04:22:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.035113.22335@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>: >
>: >>I though the penal system was supposed to REHABILITATE people.  Yeah,
>: >
>: >	Where did you get that idea?  It is not intended to rehabilitate 
>: >anyone, and never has been.  Penal is short for penalize.
>: 
>: Are we going to waste time arguing semantics?  Okay, mea culpa.  I
>: should have said "justice" instead of "penal."  Happy now? 
>
>Nope. The government gave up the pretext of "rehabilitation" long ago.
>
>Bill

Then if the government gave up the idea of rehabilitation, they should
just kill everyone from the jaywalkers to the Dahmer-loons.  Isn't that
consistent?  If not, we're talking about judging whose crime is worthy
of life and whose of death.  Given the current state of this place, I'm
not prepared to trust that judgement to the PTB.

BTW, I know who lives and who dies -- whomever does the most
sensationalistic, saddest crime dies, especially if that crime involves
blood and gore.  The S&L freaks, though?  The guys who bilked the
country out of 250 *BILLION* dollars?  Nope, they can live.  While the
looney-tune crazies who cut people up are certainly never going to do
any good to this world, I think the S&L crooks impacted this country far
more intimately.  Why, then, are they still walking around?

Because you can't find a specific victim who can appeal to the cameras,
that people can sympathize with.  I'm not running down the families of
people killed by crazies like this; I'm running down the system that
screws the people like you and me who are forced to pay for the S&L party, 
and we have no one giving us sympathy.  Only crimes with specific discrete
victims are punished swiftly and surely.  Those that impact an entire
nation and reduce many people to welfare level and less -- you can get
away with that.   If it's something you can make a top-rated
sensationalist TV movie out of, you'll fry.  If it's just something that
nearly pauperizes an entire nation of almost 300,000,000 people, though
we're willing to let you off.  WE ARE NOT CONSISTENT.

Blessings,
Janis
From: michael@adriaan.bu.edu (Michael Chaplin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Fundies: expensive
Date: 14 Sep 92 20:41:12 GMT
	<1992Sep5.011411.21823@csus.edu>
Organization: Boston University
In-reply-to: altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu's message of 5 Sep 92 01:14:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.011411.21823@csus.edu> altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim) writes:
[some things deleted]

  =For example, it is now well accepted that Jesus did not believe he was
  =divine, nor the "one and true son of God". The term "Christ" was not used
  =by him nor applied to him during his lifetime, and was a later, Greek
  =title. 

All who thought Jeshua was the son of Joe and Mary Christ, please
raise your hands. :-) (sorry, I couldn't resist.)
   
  =Personally, I'm more interested in investigating the teachings of Jesus
  =from what little we CAN be certain of than in denigrating the Christian
  =church.  I was raised Missouri Synod Lutheran, and respect many of the 
  =people who tried to instill in me their beliefs and values.  I hope for
  =their sake they can come to grips with their own history and resolve some
  =sort of "way" for the future that achieves a healthier society than the
  =ostensibly "Christian" one we are now enduring.

To comment on this, though, would be to gild a flower. Very well said.

  =Blessings,
  =Murray

Ciao,
Michael "Can you guess the occupation of ONE of my ancestors?" Chaplin
--
===========================================================================
Michael Chaplin                    Language is a virus from outer space.
michael@albert.bu.edu                     - William S. Burroughs

The Einstein Papers Project        The opinions contained herein reflect
Boston University                      neither those of the project, 
Boston, Massachusetts, U.S.A.          nor those of Albert Einstein.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Paul Cass)
Subject: Re: Men's Mysteries
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 02:04:22 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.172742.14391@uwm.edu> pst@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Stephen Thomas Iii) writes:
>
>I think a appropritate place would be with rites of passsage from boy to
>manhood.  
ah...but just when is that time?
>
>For males there is no clear sign.  Worse yet, our culture doesn't provide any
>way of marking that change clearly.  Legally, when we turn 18, we're an
>adult, but it isn't indicated in any clear fashion.

At 18 I was running around the jungle playing soldier.  Though I was a 
grim sort of kit I was certainly no man.  At 22 I was in college and if
anything I was more immature then than before.  At 24 my first daughter
was born and that did not make me a man, at least not from the perspective
of 26 years later.  None-the-less, somehow, I have reached the state of
manhood and do not have the foggyist idea of when the transition occured.>
>
>Back on topic.  I think the first thing we need to address as a men's mystery
>is the idea of what it is to become a man and the responsibilities that go
>with it.
>
>Peter Thomas
>
Just what are those responsibilities?  To home and family? Extended family?
The community?  Possibly we become men when we make an internal decision to
take responsibilty for ourselves and to accept the consequences and benefits
of our actions.  I think though that it extends further than that...at this
point I only know that I have no clear framework to define `what constitutes
being a man'.
BB
Paul
>


-- 
                          * * * * * * *
"It is possible to join forces, to identify common goals, and to agree on
 common action." - U.N. World Commission on Development and Environment
		       casspa@jacobs.cs.orst.edu
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Newsgroups: alt.pagan

liam@brewich.hou.tx.us (Liam) writes:
>        Has anyone ever heard of a group called  Desert Wind?  My fiance' 
>played some of thier stuff for me recently, and I admit it .....I am 
>hooked.  I don't remember the names of any of thier tapes right now, but 
>I highly recomend them.

Just last night I received the following postcard:

   New Recording From Desert Wind:

	    "Return to the Goddess in Chants and Song"

   The 4th recording from the group "Desert Wind", who gave us the
   original "Return to the Goddess", "Mystic Nights", and "Ancient Nights". 
   This new recording is 75 minutes long, a reorchestration of the three
   original songs (Return to the Goddess, I Am, Dona), and 10 new songs,
   including a belly dance routine "Goddess Dance Cycle".  Let the
   goddess within you dance out with this music!!!

   Cassette: $9.50   CD: $18.00  (plus $1.50 shipping, 
				    CA residents add 7-3/4% tax)

   Artemis Imports
   P.O. Box 68
   Pacific Grove, CA 93950


Needless to say, my check is already in the mail!

For those not familiar with their music, here is some information.  Their
first three cassette tapes (original "Return to the Goddess", "Mystic Nights",
and "Ancient Nights") have some vocals and some instrumentals.  Of the vocals,
some of these are chant style, and some are songs.  Below are some
examples:

(can't remember title):

	 The earth is my body
	 Her water is my blood
	 Her winds are my breath
         Her fire, my spirit.

	 (over and over, with various voices coming in and out)


"Return to the Goddess":

	.
	.
	.
        As the new moon approaches to shade my way,
	The end of the cycle leaves me old and grey.
	The matter returns to the earth mother,
	For another purpose, another day.
	For death is life in the cyclical way.
	Return in love.

	In the music is hidden in the secret
	Of what we're made of and the moon above.
	The spiral of the ancients
	Sends me within for eternal love.
	Enter your kingdom of plenty.
	In the dark, the rhythm sent you soaring like a dove.
	As the earth mother lent you her matter
	That you may leave her womb and get to freedom, is love.
        .
	.
	.
                (thanks to radzy for the transcription)


-----------------

--Lynne

lynne@hpnst.mayfield.hp.com



Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Subject: Re: a gift for Ciaran
Reply-To: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 23:56:08 GMT

In article <16858@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard 
Darsie) writes:
> Hi, Ciaran,
> 
> I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed your various posts. You are
> truly a wonderful person - don't ever leave alt.pagan!
> 
> My gift is a tune (I am a Tuneweaver, after all). I hope you like
> Irish music. This is a slip jig. I'm posting it here as a postscript
> file. It should be printable from any postscript printer. If you
> (or anyone else) has trouble with it let me know.
> 
> Blessings,
> 
> Richard
> (Tuneweaver)
> 

  Dear Tuneweaver,

  Your song printed beautifully.  I haven't had a chance to
try it yet, but I'm thinking that I'm going to ask a friend 
who plays Scottish bagpipes to give it a go.

  I really can't tell you how immensely your post struck me.

  I've been fighting with my writing group to get some sort
of feed-back on my work, and my folks have discovered that I'm
writing and now THEY want to read it (YIKES), and I've been
flaming so badly at anyone who looks at me cross-eyed that,
well, I guess I just started to think pretty badly of myself
in just the kind of way that I always do whenever I've been
stuck in the same chapter for so long that I'm completely
convinced no one's ever going to read it anyway, so why
bother.

  This is just what I needed at just the moment I needed it
most ... thank you.

  I'm going to go off and blush now.

  Blessed be, Ciaran.

  $uslinit; include oblig.sig <<
  "...And here, Queen Aphrodite, pour heavenly nectar into gold
   cups, and fill them gracefully with sudden joy."  -- Sappho >>
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: another view of guns and leaving
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 00:44:32 GMT

With all the talk about guns and leaving, I though some of you might
find something in the following. Quik is a poet from Compton, Ca. You've
probably heard of the place. He just recently got the chance to leave on
a tour of the US and Canada, and the following excerpt is a tale of his
observations. Most of you probably don't understand or know of Quik's
culture, so most of this is probably out of context, but see if you can
here the voice of Homo sapiens sapiens here:

DJ Quik: Jus Lyke Compton
...
after about a month on the road, we came home
and I can safely say, that LA is a much better place to stay
how could a bunch a suckers in a town like this
have such a big influence on brothers so far away?
but still, my story ain't over, 'cause I got one more to tell
and the people in Colorado, they know it well
it was all in the news and if you don't remember
I had to show ID in Denver
with a first time promoter, it was done in a skatin' rink
hoochies was lovin' us, but suckers was ready to bust
to the front of the stage, they threw they gang signs
but I'm gettin' paid, so I didn't pay it no mind
when it was over, two suckers needed stiches
got checked in they're jaws for being nothin' but snitches
now Denver, is just like Compton
Oakland, St. Louis, San Antonio ...
is just like Compton, they wanna-be like Compton
I thought you knew
From: acarr@pell2l8.alleg.edu (Amelia Carr)
Subject: Re: Book stores --Pittsburgh & Cleveland?
Organization: Allegheny College
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 13:31:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.174914.3177@linus.mitre.org>  
spaceman@mwunix.mitre.org (Fletcher Williams) writes:
> 
> 
>      I don't know if they are nation-wide, but in the Washington, D.C.
> area, there are two bookstores called 'Borders'. One in Rockville, MD  
and
> they other in the Tyson's Corner area of VA. They have a great selection  
and the place is huge. I took my booklist in one day and found what I  
wanted straight 
> away. 
>      They seem to carry multiple titles of a wide assortment of  
subjects. Of course, this means that they also stock the fluffy stuff. :)
> 
> pob hwyl,
> * Fletcher
> 
Borders are great, and there are number of them.  I've been to the ones in  
Pittsburgh, Columbus OH, and outside of Washington D.C.  It's worth a  
separate trip -- especially if you a book-buyer in general.  While we're  
on the subject, any recommendations for occult book stores in the  
Pittsburgh-Cleveland area?
Newsgroups: alt.pagan