From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.greek
Subject: Fake?
Date: 17 Aug 92 23:30:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 


RS>From: sachs@lhasa.berkeley.edu (Rainer Sachs)
RS>Mutlu's posting policies are explicable if he is trying
RS>to stir up anger against Turks or discredit Turkish policy.
RS>Not otherwise.  Any reason to believe that he actually
RS>has such a hidden agenda?

 I doubt that this is his goal. I feel that his primary targets are the
 fellow Turkish netters on this board.

 I have had the fortunate experience to have met and talked with Turkish
 fellow students in college. Most are very, very reasonable people.

 Talking politics, we generally agreed that the borders should just stay were
 they are, and that all these confrontations are hurting both counties. Their
 opinions vary on Cyprus, but they are far more moderate than Mr Multu. Here
 in NYC, thousands of miles away from their government, they feel free to
 complain about the lack of freedom of expression in Turkey, especially in
 Turkish schools. Even those who feel that the 1974 invasion was "necessary",
 still agree that the military is running the Turkish government. I know
 exactly how they feel because I am not that happy with the Greek establishment
 myself, or with the American establishment (I am a US citizen due to my
 mother, and I do have strong feelings for both countries).

 These Turkish students, many of which have access to this board, pose a threat
 to the Turkish government. They do not serve their motherland like their
 government would like them to. Even worse, they may come back one day,
 carrying such ideas as absolute freedom of speech and freedom for all political
 parties (not just the ones that the army feels 'qualified' to run). Even
 worse, they may start to express their opinions about the system. The Turkish
 government does not want that to happen.

 Even those students who are not politically oposed to the Turkish govmnt
 generally forget all the propaganda they have been fed in high-school once
 they are away from Turkey. It is hard for the Turkish government to gather
 up enough demonstrators for their "protests" when Turkish-American students
 are too busy studying/working/partying or whatever, not giving
 a dime for the propaganda of their government.

 Mutlu's "theories" are designed to attract these Turkish students and other
 turkish-americans towards a more nationalistic point of view. First of all,
 Mutlu brings the politically apathetic a reminder of the stuff they were
 fed in high school. To the rest he provides a view of history that is very
 attractive for anyone who is proud to be a Turk. It is very natural for
 anyone to be proud of their country; and even as a Greek I will say that Turks
 have a lot to be proud of, and should be proud of it. But the massacre of
 Armenians and the long reign of dictatorial regimes from 1924 to 1950
 are nothing to be proud of, just as Greeks are not proud of the 1967-74
 dictatorship, or the germanotsoliades.

 Mutlu tries to exploit this natural love for one's nation, by stressing
 the 'good stuff' and denying that anything bad ever happened under the
 graceful reign of the Ottoman Empire or Kemal Attaturk. He provides
 fake proofs that are either not easily verifiable (how many books has Mr
 Shaw ever sold? Does anyone except Mutlu really know what is in Bulding F,
 Floor 2, Sector C, Cabinet [34:2], Drawer 7/A of the Grughteing Building
 in West Fragglebourg?) or are mis-represented (read Re: Men are like that).
 He takes advantage of the patriotic feelings of Turkish netters, to draw
 them to the far extreme.

 What dissapoints me is that I have not seen any of the Turkish netters
 telling this kind of. If someone on this group was defending the 1967
 dictatorial regime of Greece, or EOKA-B, or Sampson's 1974 actions, I would
 tell them to buzz off.

 I don't know if Turkish netters don't critisize him because they agree
 with Mutlu, or because those who disagree with him are afraid of the
 long arm of the turkish government. Most Turkish students in the USA
 will eventually have to return to Turkey, serve in the Turkish army,
 and then look for a job there. If I had all this in front of me, I
 admit I would think twice about being vocal, lest my name become a
 record in a database in a computer somewhere. Ever seen the
 "Midnight Express?"

 I am very interested of the opinions of Turkish netters on the subject.

 Michael.

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