HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp

To whom it may concern,

Those looking for a way to run HP-PHIGS in a Motif environment now have an
answer!

HP-PHIGS 2.3 on HP-UX 9.0 using Motif 1.2 provides a new Motif Widget called 
"XgPhigsDraw" that creates an PHIGS workstation that is attached to a Motif
DrawingArea.

HP-PHIGS MOTIF WIDGET: XgPhigsDraw
----------------------------------
    A new Motif 1.2 widget has been added for HP-PHIGS that will provide
    the following assistance:

        - Automatically opens a HP-PHIGS workstation inside of a Motif 
          DrawingArea widget
        - Handle resizing the workstation when the window is resized
        - Redraw the workstation when the window is exposed
        - Set the Window Manager colormap priority for the HP-PHIGS colormap
        - Close the HP-PHIGS workstation when the Motif widget is destroyed

    An example HP-PHIGS application using the new widget and demo program
    explaining the different options can be found in the examples (i.e.,
    /usr/lib/phigs/examples/Xg) and demo (i.e., /usr/lib/phigs/demos/Xg)
    directories included in the HP-PHIGS 2.3 Programming Environment
    product.

    Please refer to the "HP-PHIGS Workstation Characteristics and
    Implementation manual" for HP-PHIGS 2.3 and the XgPhigsDraw man
    page for more information.

It has it's own set of X resources that can be set to specify visual depth
and the necessary color environment.

The source and makefile for the XgPhigsDraw widget, as well as, two complete 
examples of how to write HP-PHIGS applications using the widget are shipped
with the HP-PHIGS 2.3 release.

Sincerely,
******************************************************************************
           /
   ,____  /  ,
   / / / /--'   *                Mary K. Jones                /\  /\
  / / / / \    /        User interface Technology Division   /  \/  \/\
 /   /_/   \_ /_             Ft. Collins, Colorado          /   /    \ \
             /
           -'
mkj@hpphigs.hp.com              (303) 229-6249              MS 74 - 1UE7
******************************************************************************
From: andreas@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE (Jim Andreas)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: Re: Problems on VUE
Date: 24 Dec 92 17:11:47 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.9 PL6]

I pulled this out of the FAQ - I think it is applicable....  Could 
be you are missing one of the various if statements below :-}

Jim "is 'DNS' the same thing as BIND (/etc/named)?" Andreas

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
[From FAQ in a notorious waste of internet bandwidth :-)]

6) Can I get HP-UX to try DNS ahead of NIS?

This is the "standard" answer given from the Response Center:

     If there is only one IP address in resolv.conf and
        if the address is the local node's IP add., then NIS or /etc/hosts
                is used because the IP is reachable and named is not running.
        if the address is the name server's IP add.,
                if the address is reachable but named is not running, then
                        NIS or /etc/hosts is used (the same reason)
                if the address is not reachable (eg the node is down) then
                        at 7.0 NIS or /etc/hosts is used;
                        at 8.0 resolution fails.

If there are more than one IP address in resolv.conf, no NIS or /etc/hosts
fallback will be used after all addresses are tried and failed.

In other word, if they only configure one IP address in resolv.conf and are
running 7.0, they should be ok.

As for additional configuration ... the answer is NO, you can't get it
to try NIS before DNS etc ...

[ Thanks to Jim O'Shea at the Atlanta RC for this information. ]
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
From: robert@abblund.se (Robert Storlind)
Subject: Smart linker for HP-UX?
Organization: Ideon Research Park
Date: 21 Dec 92 13:03:01 GMT

Hi,

Does anyone know if there is a smart linker for HP-UX? We're having
problems with C++ code producing 10--15 Mbyte executables (on a 32Mb
machine). A linker that would get rid of unused code would be really
nice.

Environment: HP 720, HP-UX 8.07 (soon 9.0), HP's C++.

Thanks in advance,
--
Robert Storlind                    ASEA BROWN BOVERI             
E-MAIL: robert@crclund.abb.se      Corporate Research dept KLL
FAX   : int+46 46-145620           IDEON Research Park 
PHONE : int+46 46-168528           S-223 70 LUND SWEDEN
From: jwang@sys.toronto.edu (Jingwen Wang)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: HP-UX 8.x kernel variables
Date: 23 Dec 92 19:34:11 GMT
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto


    My program needs to get the following indices:

    1. maximum user memory in the system;
    2. Amount of free swap space.

    I know the monitor program provides all this information, but monitor
is something from HP (that means source not available). Could any body
tell me what kernel variables should I read to get these numbers?

Many thanks in advance.

jwang

-- 
  {}
{}(){} -----> Jingwen Wang, Univ. of Toronto       (416)-978-1675 (office)
  {}          jwang@sys.toronto.edu                1-800-ASK-wang (home)

--
  {}
{}(){} -----> Jingwen Wang, Univ. of Toronto       (416)-978-1675 (office)
  {}          jwang@sys.toronto.edu                1-800-ASK-wang (home)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp,comp.unix.admin
From: andrew@iem.com (Andrew Patterson)
Subject: Re: non-root mount
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 20:24:07 GMT
Organization: IEM, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

derko@rivm.nl (derko drukker z-09) writes:
: Hello,
: 
: Does anyone know how to have non-root users use the mount command
: as more and more users have their own cd-rom connected to their
: workstation ?
: 
: Derko Drukker
: E-mail: derko@rivm.nl


Try settind suid to root on /etc/mount and /etc/umount.  Note that 
this can be very dangerous as users can then dismount all discs.  You
might write a shell wrapper around these programs which will provide
specific security checks.

To suid to root on these programs, execute the following commands


   Log in as root
   # chmod 4555 /etc/mount /etc/umount
   # chown root /etc/mount /etc/umount



-- 



Regards,
From: chris@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Christian Finger)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: Re: how to disable quota check at login???
Date: 22 Dec 92 21:57:03 GMT
Reply-To: finger@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de
Organization: Computer Center, University of Karlsruhe, Germany
NNTP-Posting-Host: tp71.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de

In article <fish.725058012@news.gsfc.nasa.gov>, fish@daacdev1.stx.com writes:
| /etc/rc does not have the quota check in it and i am
| not using quotas so why does the system check for them???
| 
| anyway, i want to turn this off because every time the
| network has a problem (and thus my NFS mounted disks have
| a problem) quota hangs indefinately for some users and
| i have to kill their quota process and then everything
| continues on
| 
| 	thanx,
| 		fish

/bin/login calls /usr/bin/quota to display the user's disk usage and limits.
If an NFS-Server is unavailible /usr/bin/quota will hang.

If you do not use quotas anyway try
	cd /usr/bin; mv quota quota.hp; ln -s /bin/true quota

Hope that helps.

C.Finger
-- 
  .     Christian Finger         |  Tel   : (+49) 721/608-4038
 |||    Computer Center          |  Fax   : (+49) 721/32550
\|||    University of Karlsruhe  |  EMail : finger@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de
    /   Postfach 6980            |  X.400 : S = finger; OU = rz
        D-7500 Karlsruhe 1       |          P = uni-karlsruhe; A = dpb; C = de
From: paul@eye.com (Paul B. Booth)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: cd-rom drive to PC?
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 15:44:43 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: 3D/EYE, Inc.  Ithaca, NY

Hi-

Anybody know if/how it's possible to hook up the little hp cd-rom drive (6100
model 700/s) to a PC?  Has anybody out there done it?

I'm hoping that I pick up an interface board and driver software from NEC or
Toshiba or somebody and have it work w/this drive, what are my chances?

Email's best; I'll summarize any responses back to the group.

Thanks!
PBB
-- 
Paul B. Booth  (paul@eye.com)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3D/EYE, Inc., 2359 N. Triphammer Rd., Ithaca, NY  14850    voice: (607)257-1381
                                                             fax: (607)257-7335
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp,jpl.hpapollo.managers
From: jjt@aristotle.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Jack Tuszynski)
Subject: Re: Seagate Elite II Disktab entry
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, NASA/Caltech
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 03:53:55 GMT


>Does anyone have a disktab entry for a Seagate Elite II ?

>Greg Ramos

>gcr@pacific.jpl.nasa.gov

I have installed Seagate 2.3GB disks on an HP.  It was a half
day task.  Not easy.  If the Elite II is a 2GB disk, then
maybe I can help.

						Jack Tuszynski
						jjt@zeus
From: pagels@cs.arizona.edu (Michael A. Pagels)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: Privileged instructions
Date: 30 Dec 92 18:19:07 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona, CS Dept, Tucson


Is it possible for a UNIX user program, running as root, to acquire
a kernel privilege level, level = 0?  Specifically during an experiment
I need to mask interrupts for a few microseconds while running a timing
loop using the interval timer.


-- 
              Michael A. Pagels -- pagels@cs.arizona.edu
   Department of Computer Science, University of Arizona, Tucson AZ

Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
From: bennett@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Steve Bennett)
Subject: Xwindow debugger
Organization: Motorola, CCR&D, CORP, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 13:19:11 GMT

We have just migrated to the HP700 and have found that xdb is in no way a
replacement for dde on the apollo's Can anyone make any suggestions of a debugger
that is menu driven

-- 

#
# Steve Bennett (bennett@mot.com)
#
From: kevin@carson.u.washington.edu (Kevin Caskey)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: connecting another machine as a remote host
Date: 24 Dec 92 00:54:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Dec24.005457.2186
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

I am trying to connect another computer to my hp9000 340.
when I just add its name and IP address to my hosts file
telenet won't work to it (it works to other some other
machoines in my hosts file) I think I need to specify a
gateway. I would like to specifiy the same gateway as 
another in my hosts file. Where do I do this and how
do I find out what the gateway the other machine is using?

Thanks,
Kevin in U dub IE
Xref: sparky comp.sys.hp:14426 comp.mail.misc:4155
From: trsnyder@mcs.drexel.edu (Bob Snyder)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp,comp.sys.unix.ultrix,comp.mail.misc
Subject: Re: HP-UX and ULTRIX sharing a common NFS'ed mailbox area doesn't work
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:01:04 GMT
Organization: ASCI

In article <1992Dec30.181130.22144@colby.edu> dwcooley@colby.edu (David W. Cooley) writes:

   We are historically a dec and mac shop beginning to install HP
   9K8?7 machines.  Our mail strategy has been to have a common pool
   of mail boxes (...spool/mail for DEC folks, /usr/mail for HP-UX)
   NFS'ed to all machines under the management of the Computer
   Services group.  We also run a POP server on the pool for Mac users
   who wish toread mail on their Mac using Eudora.  Users may have
   accounts on multiple machines and want to have access to their mail
   from each.  The uid/gid/user name/group name data a


   all machines is managed as a unified entity.

   This has worked very well until we tried to integrate HP machines
   into this environment (HP 9K 827 running HP-UX 8.02).

   The presenting problem is that mail delivered by HP-UX to a mailbox
   stored on a ULTRIX NFS server does not have its UID/GID set
   appropriately.

Suggestion #1:  Have only one machine set up to receive mail (running the
sendmail daemon).  Set up MX records in your nameserver for all the
other machines that point to mail server.  A logical choise would be
the machine the mail is NFS mounted from, so you don't have file
locking headaches.


   One problem area is the difference between the group ownerships on
   HP-UX and ULTRIX mailbox directories, mail files, and mail
   programs. On HP-UX it appears that the mailbox directory and the
   mailboxes have gid mail, the mailboxes are rw to gid mail, and two
   of the three mail readers (elm and mail) are setgid-mail (mailx is
   not).  On Ultrix, the mailbox directory is owned by root/system,
   the mailboxes are rw to user only, /usr/bin/mail is setuid-root,
   setgid-kmem, and /usr/ucb/mail runs with the uid/g


   the user.  From this it appears that HP-UX mailboxes and some mail
   readers require special gid treatment which ULTRIX mailboxes do
   not. This probably implies that ULTRIX mail readers can not be used
   on mailboxes residing on and NFSed from HP-UX machines.

   The other problem ares is the incompatibility of the "UNIX" "From"
   header line (the one without the colon) used to separate messages
   in a mail box. We see this when ULTRIX mail readers (notably
   /usr/ucb/mail) try to read mail delivered by a HP-UX delivery
   program.  The contents of a mailbox is parsed into separate
   messages based on the existance of the "UNIX" from header line at
   the start of every message.  The HP-UX from line is missing the two
   second digits and associated colon in the timestamp (th

But does HP-UX choke on Ultrix delivered mail?  If it doesn't, just stop the
HPs from receiving mail.

Bob
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
From: sieler@shell.portal.com (Stan Sieler)
Subject: Re: HP110 Laptop
Organization: Portal Communications Company
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 05:47:54 GMT

Douglas M. Howell (IO10677@MAINE.MAINE.EDU) wrote:
:     I'm seeking advise.  I recieved a HP110 laptop (circa 1985) for X-mas.
: Ps. Can any one give me a ballpark figure of how much a machine such as
: this is worth?

50$, maybe!  If you stay with the machine, try to find the 110 Tech
ref manual.  If you email me at sieler@allegro.com, I'll look around
my office for our old manuals, and send you the part numbers in a week.
 
Stan Sieler
From: tbc@col.hp.com (Tim Chambers)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: Objective Party's Rating of HP-UX
Date: 21 Dec 1992 23:57:58 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard ("microprocessor development systems" division)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hplsdih.col.hp.com

I saw this on hpcwire ("High Performance Computing," telnet hpcwire.ans.net
[147.225.1.51] -- a WAY COOL Internet site, IMHO).  Yes, I work for HP, but at
an instrument division, so my interest in posting this is more as an HP
workstation user and HP shareholder than as an employee.


HP-UX, Progress Garner Top Scores in Datapro Honor Roll
  Delran, N.J. -- Datapro Information Services Group Monday announced that
Hewlett-Packard's HP-UX received the highest overall satisfaction rating for
Unix operating systems in Datapro's 1992 Unix Honor Roll, followed closely by
Unix System Labs' Unix SVR4.
  Progress received the highest overall satisfaction rating for Unix database
management systems.
  The Honor Roll is derived from the results of an annual survey of Unix
users conducted by Datapro.
  HP-UX from Hewlett-Packard Co. received a 3.7 Overall Satisfaction Rating
out of a possible 5 in the Unix Operating Systems category. Progress, from
Progress Software Corp., received a 3.8 Overall Satisfaction Rating out of a
possible 5 in the Unix DBMS category.



Copyright 1992 by HPCwire. All rights reserved.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
From: oliveria@engin.umich.edu (Roque Donizete de Oliveira)
Subject: Compiling a short C program with "cc - Aa"
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 15:59:15 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

Can someone tell me how to make this short program (just the function
"seconds" defined below) compilable with both "cc -O filename" 
and "cc -O -Aa filename.c" ? Right now it compiles with
the former only. I'm using HPUX 8.07.
The reason I ask is that I'm modifying a C program to make it compilable
with both ANSI and non-ANSI C compilers, and on as many unix platforms 
as possible. I'm using, in the big C code, ifdefs like:
           #if defined(__STDC__) || defined(ANSI) || defined(NRANSI)

The symbol "hpux" isn't defined if I use "cc -Aa".
If there is a better ANSI and non-ANSI C way of getting the elapsed cpu time
time of a program in as many unix platforms as possible, please let me know.
Thanks.
        Roque
        oliveria@engin.umich.edu

Here is the same C code (just try it with cc and with and without the
-Aa option and you will see the compilation error when using -Aa).


#include <stdio.h>  /* for printf */
/* Define a function to measure elapsed CPU time */
#ifdef hpux
#include <unistd.h> /* for sysconf */
#include <sys/times.h>
#else
#include <sys/time.h>
#include <sys/resource.h>
#endif
int
seconds()
{
#ifdef hpux
        long ticks;
        struct tms    ruse;
        ticks = sysconf(_SC_CLK_TCK);
	times(&ruse);  
	return ((ruse.tms_utime + ruse.tms_stime)/ticks);     /* user + system time used */
#else
	struct rusage ruse;
	getrusage(RUSAGE_SELF, &ruse);  
	return (ruse.ru_utime.tv_sec + ruse.ru_stime.tv_sec); /* user + system time used */
#endif
}

main(argc, argv)
int	argc;
char	**argv;
{  
   int i, j, t0, t1;
   t0 = seconds();
   for (i=1;i<100000001;i++) 
    {     j = 2*i + 5;     }
   t1 = seconds();   
   printf("t0= %d \n", t0);
   printf("t1= %d \n", t1);
   printf("j= %d \n", j);
   printf("cpu usage: %d seconds \n", t1 - t0);
}
From: rocky@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Rocky Craig)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: Re: standard error redirect
Date: 1 Jan 93 15:49:24 GMT
Organization: HP Fort Collins, CO


           rm -f /usr/junk/* 2> /dev/null
			       ^
Try removing the space---------|

But, as Frank says,

> ...what do you mean by "It doesn't work" ?

Rocky
From: mkj@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Mary K. Jones)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:31:06 GMT
Subject: Re: PHIGS with MOTIF on HP9000
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp

In comp.sys.hp, ueda@sys.crl.melco.co.jp (Takao Ueda) writes:

Takao,

Regarding your question:
> Anyone know how to use Phigs with Motif on HP9000/730CRX+24Z ?
> I am not sure how to set color-map and visual-depth, etc.
> 
> Welcome any information about them.
> 
> Our machine:
> HP9000/730CRX+24Z
> OS:8.0.7
> X11R4
> Motif1.1
> Phigs2.1 ?
> --
> 
> -Takao Ueda-
> ueda@sys.crl.melco.co.jp
> Central Research Lab.
> Mitsubishi Electric Corp.

HP-PHIGS 2.3 on HP-UX 9.0 using Motif 1.2 provides a new Motif Widget called 
"XgPhigsDraw" that creates an PHIGS workstation that is attached to a Motif
DrawingArea.

HP-PHIGS MOTIF WIDGET: XgPhigsDraw
----------------------------------
    A new Motif 1.2 widget has been added for HP-PHIGS that will provide
    the following assistance:

        - Automatically opens a HP-PHIGS workstation inside of a Motif 
          DrawingArea widget
        - Handle resizing the workstation when the window is resized
        - Redraw the workstation when the window is exposed
        - Set the Window Manager colormap priority for the HP-PHIGS colormap
        - Close the HP-PHIGS workstation when the Motif widget is destroyed

    An example HP-PHIGS application using the new widget and demo program
    explaining the different options can be found in the examples (i.e.,
    /usr/lib/phigs/examples/Xg) and demo (i.e., /usr/lib/phigs/demos/Xg)
    directories included in the HP-PHIGS 2.3 Programming Environment
    product.

    Please refer to the "HP-PHIGS Workstation Characteristics and
    Implementation manual" for HP-PHIGS 2.3 and the XgPhigsDraw man
    page for more information.

It has it's own set of X resources that can be set to specify visual depth
and the necessary color environment.

The source and makefile for the XgPhigsDraw widget, as well as, two complete 
examples of how to write HP-PHIGS applications using the widget are shipped
with the HP-PHIGS 2.3 release.

I encourage you to upgrade if possible.  

Sincerely,
******************************************************************************
           /
   ,____  /  ,
   / / / /--'   *                Mary K. Jones                /\  /\
  / / / / \    /        User interface Technology Division   /  \/  \/\
 /   /_/   \_ /_             Ft. Collins, Colorado          /   /    \ \
             /
           -'
mkj@hpphigs.hp.com              (303) 229-6249              MS 74 - 1UE7
******************************************************************************
From: xm9@sdcc12.ucsd.edu (richard g. adair)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: Re: Smart linker for HP-UX?
Summary: executable size
Keywords: executable size
Date: 22 Dec 92 14:51:55 GMT
Organization: Arete Associates, San Diego

In article <robert.724942981@abblund> robert@abblund.se (Robert Storlind)writes:
>Does anyone know if there is a smart linker for HP-UX? We're having
>problems with C++ code producing 10--15 Mbyte executables (on a 32Mb
>machine). A linker that would get rid of unused code would be really
>nice.

Have you tried "strip"?  Do you use only malloc'd memory, not
static allocation?

Tony Burzio
Arete Associates
San Diego, CA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
From: eletanjm@nuscc.nus.sg (Tan Jin Meng)
Subject: Need to compare a SS10 with HP715/50
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 08:52:45 GMT

The Subject line says it all...

I need to compare a SS10 model 30 (with GX accelerator) with a HP715/50
(no CRX). Any comments or pointers to relevant publications are welcome.

Thanks.

jin meng
From: mkj@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Mary K. Jones)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:32:42 GMT
Subject: Re: HP-PHIGS + MOTIF on HP9000
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp

In comp.sys.hp, ueda@sys.crl.melco.co.jp (Takao Ueda) writes:
Takao,

Regarding your question:
> Anyone know how to use Phigs with Motif on HP9000/730CRX+24Z ?
> I am not sure how to set color-map and visual-depth, etc.
> 
> Welcome any information about them.
> 
> Our machine:
> HP9000/730CRX+24Z
> OS:8.0.7
> X11R4
> Motif1.1
> Phigs2.1 ?
> --
> 
> -Takao Ueda-
> ueda@sys.crl.melco.co.jp
> Central Research Lab.
> Mitsubishi Electric Corp.

HP-PHIGS 2.3 on HP-UX 9.0 using Motif 1.2 provides a new Motif Widget called 
"XgPhigsDraw" that creates an PHIGS workstation that is attached to a Motif
DrawingArea.

HP-PHIGS MOTIF WIDGET: XgPhigsDraw
----------------------------------
    A new Motif 1.2 widget has been added for HP-PHIGS that will provide
    the following assistance:

        - Automatically opens a HP-PHIGS workstation inside of a Motif 
          DrawingArea widget
        - Handle resizing the workstation when the window is resized
        - Redraw the workstation when the window is exposed
        - Set the Window Manager colormap priority for the HP-PHIGS colormap
        - Close the HP-PHIGS workstation when the Motif widget is destroyed

    An example HP-PHIGS application using the new widget and demo program
    explaining the different options can be found in the examples (i.e.,
    /usr/lib/phigs/examples/Xg) and demo (i.e., /usr/lib/phigs/demos/Xg)
    directories included in the HP-PHIGS 2.3 Programming Environment
    product.

    Please refer to the "HP-PHIGS Workstation Characteristics and
    Implementation manual" for HP-PHIGS 2.3 and the XgPhigsDraw man
    page for more information.

It has it's own set of X resources that can be set to specify visual depth
and the necessary color environment.

The source and makefile for the XgPhigsDraw widget, as well as, two complete 
examples of how to write HP-PHIGS applications using the widget are shipped
with the HP-PHIGS 2.3 release.

I encourage you to upgrade if possible.  

Sincerely,
******************************************************************************
           /
   ,____  /  ,
   / / / /--'   *                Mary K. Jones                /\  /\
  / / / / \    /        User interface Technology Division   /  \/  \/\
 /   /_/   \_ /_             Ft. Collins, Colorado          /   /    \ \
             /
           -'
mkj@hpphigs.hp.com              (303) 229-6249              MS 74 - 1UE7
******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp