HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hanscs@dhhalden.no (HANS CHRISTIAN SANDER)
Subject: Re: Hardwired - once more!
Summary: How to get it 
Keywords: Hardwired, Silents
Organization: Ostfold College
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 11:17:13 GMT

In article <1992Nov7.113639.8686@cc.tut.fi> l115130@cc.tut.fi (Lehtonen Tero) writes:
>From: l115130@cc.tut.fi (Lehtonen Tero)
>Subject: Hardwired - once more!
>Summary: How to get it 
>Keywords: Hardwired, Silents
>Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 11:36:39 GMT
>
>
>	Hello fellow demo freaks out there on the net!
>
>
>  I've just got some trouble with this wonderful piece of demo code. I finally
>made it to work on my machine ( B2000 1.3 , 1Mb Chip , 2Mb Fast , Supra's
>Wordsync controller + 105Mb Quantum ) by turning off everything except the 
>motherboard installed Chip-ram. However, my problems aren't over since my 
>HW disk 2 is corrupted - it crashes soon after the vector spacecraft has 
>appeared. I've heard some other guys have had this problem too. So I decided
>to download a new version of the demo. I tried the one in wuarchive.wustl.edu,
>but oh shit, oh shit... 
>  The .dms'ed file 'Hardwired-disk2' was over 740,000 bytes long so it didn't
>fit on a DD MS-DOS floppy. I access the net via the shitty pc's of the 
>university and move the downloaded files to my Amy on the DD floppies by 
>using DosToDos. That's my only chance, since I don't have a modem or the 
>ability to read HD-floppies.
>  So how the heck can I split up that file and get it on the only  correct
>format? Any ideas? God, I hate these stupid ms-dos machines! Screw 'em!
>  Also, something more to complain about. Does anybody know the programmers
>of Kefrens? I hope they get this: Kefrens, you are the shittiest coders I've
>seen this far! None of many, many, many products carrying your name hasn't
>work on my machine - no matter how much I degrade it. And I've only got a
>68000-based B2000. Can't figure why it's so hard for some guys to write
>WORKING code.
>
>			        Tero Lehtonen, l115130@cc.tut.fi

You hate the MS-DOS machine(you mean PC-Clones?) beacuse they got 1.44MB HD-
Floppy drives? 

1. Get AmigaDos2.xx -> (if don't already got it) and buy your self a HD-
   Floppy drive for your beloved Amiga 2000. Ok. 

2. Buy the A4000, great machine.

3. There is a much easier way of doing this but I will not tell anybody 
   about it since I got this non-disclosure agreement with God. Ok.

Yours Sincerly
Hans C Sander
Xref: sparky alt.sys.amiga.demos:1614 comp.sys.amiga.applications:8638 comp.sys.amiga.introduction:1512 comp.sys.amiga.marketplace:8879 comp.sys.amiga.misc:16815 comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:29101
From: mwm@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us (Mike Meyer)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos,comp.sys.amiga.applications,comp.sys.amiga.introduction,comp.sys.amiga.marketplace,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Programming
Date: 14 Nov 92 22:40:15 GMT
Organization: Missionaria Phonibalonica
X-NewsSoftware: Amiga Yarn 3.4, 1992/08/12 15:49:52

In <1e3os6INN7h7@ub.d.umn.edu>, rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman) wrote:
> What do you mean by 'not system compliant'?  In AMOS, you have access to
> all the libraries, AmigaDOS, system requesters (and they even show up on
> the AMOS screen, so you don't have to do any annoying screen switching),
> and more.

You're right - screen switching is annoying. That's why I want
applications that use the printer to open on the WB, so I can run the
printer prefs on the same screen. Of course, public screens are an
acceptable alternative.

Can I have AMOS open a window on the WB? Can I have it not open a
window at all, but run in CLI mode? Can I have it not steal a the
input stream? Can I have it not disable task switching while it's
running?  If the answer to any of those is "no", then it's not system
compliant.

> On the AMOS disks is a HD install program written in AMOS (you
> can look at the code if you want too, as an example for any programs you
> might want to write).  AMOS IS DEFINITELY AN ALTERNATIVE LANGUAGE. 

For that disk installer, what do you do if you get an "out of space"
requester? In a properly written application, you can switch to the WB
or open a CLI and go delete things.

Everything is an alternative language for SOMETHING. It's just not
always clear what that something is. Unless a language can do windows
on WB (or public screens in 2.0) and CLI style commands, it's not
suitable for general utilties. Unless you can disable the idiotic
stealing of the input stream, it's not suitable for anything that's
going to run unattended for longer than your blanker timeout. Unless
it can open a public screen, it's not suitable for doing productivity
tools under 2.0. Unless it can be prevented from disabling
multitasking, it's not suitable for anything you might want to use
with another tool. After those are eliminated, you want to tell me
what's left?

> Again, I'm NOT saying "AMOS is the best language ever wittten and blows
> everything away" etc.  It does have downfalls (as does ***** EVERY *****
> language).  Many C (and other language) programmers like to use AMOS
> because it is SIMPLE to do VERY COMPLEX THINGS.  Again, I am only a user

That's a good thing about many languages. That's not a problem; it's
that every AMOS program I've ever run into behaves in a completely
unacceptable way. Nuts - I've had more bug reports for AMOS than I
have for ShadowMaster. Because of that, I'm not going to buy a copy,
and I'm certainly not going to pirate one.

	<mike
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: erlebach@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Thomas Erlebach)
Subject: Re: 2.04 demos and sites
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 09:57:11 GMT

MAXIMUM VELOCITY PATCH

wgkramer@cs.vu.nl (Ewout Kramer) writes:

>erlebach@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Thomas Erlebach) writes:
>>Finally I added a MOVE #$2700,SR to the music interrupt (which disables
>>all other interrupts during the music interrupt), and now the demo works
>>fine (including the music).

>Could you make a patch or something for other users, I would certainly
>not enjoy repeating your 4-hours work :-(
 
 The patch necessary is only a few bytes long, so I don't upload it
 to any ftp site. Instead I give you instructions how to do the patch
 yourself.
  
 General Instructions:
   - Use a diskmonitor
   - read block 1066 (that is track 48, head 0, block 10) of the
     Maximum Velocity disk
     (the first words in this block are 33fc 7fff 00df f09a)
   - change the bytes starting at offset $78 (hex) (i.e. 120 decimal)
     to the following: 46fc 2700 4a39 00bf ed01 13fc 0000 00bf
                       ea01 4e71 4e71
     (the bytes before offset $78 are 8008 00df f09a 4e75; these
      must remain the same)
     (the bytes after the ones you change are 13fc 0000 00bf e801)
   - write back the block (don't compute a checksum)
                           
 Special instructions if you are using C-monitor:
   - start the c-mon and put the MAXIMUM VELOCITY disk in df0:
   - enter: <s 50000 48 0 10
   - enter: e 50078
   - enter: 46fc 2700 4a39 00bf ed01 13fc 0000 00bf ea01 4e71 4e71
   - press return again
   - enter >s 50000 48 0 10
                                    
 After this patch the demo should work properly. If you have any problems,
 feel free to mail me. If the patch works on your amiga, i'd be happy to
 hear about that, too.
                                     
>Ewout

                       E.T.


Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: mjbrown@lonestar.utsa.edu (Marc J. Brown)
Subject: Re: Music and Code from Demos
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 05:05:19 GMT

In article <1992Nov08.010259.18859@DIALix.oz.au> shogun@DIALix.oz.au (Matthew Fitzgerald) writes:
>Mahoney & Kaktus are my heroes!!  God they make me laugh!

Mahoney & Kaktus: R.I.P.
I shuddered when one of them said he'd be quitting the scene so he could
toss fish for a living (at least, that's how I remembered it.. could be
wrong :).

 _____________  ________ __  ____  __  ______                                _
<__  _    _  //\\  __  // / / _  >/  \ \  ___> "Nan desu ka!? Kore.." -Ren_ //
   \ \\  // //  \\ \< << <_/ // __ <\ \_> >    mjbrown@lonestar.utsa.edu  \X/
 () \/ \/ \//____\\/ \/ \___/<_/  \_>\___/ ()  of M==E==G==A==W==A==T==T==S

Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Crystal)
Subject: Re: Has anyone gotten the lemmings-2 demo to wor
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:07:52 GMT

In <BxJDGx.19n@unccsun.uncc.edu> jagrizza@uncc.edu (James A Grizzard) writes:

>In article 24954@teetot.acusd.edu, gs@teetot.acusd.edu (Greg Simon) writes:
>>The header says it all--
>>
>>It guru's under 2.04, 1.3 (!) and all memory conditions!
>>
>>HELP!
>>
>>Greg
>>gs@teetot.acusd.edu
>>

>it worked for me under 2.0 with one meg (half fast/half chip)

>had to turn off my 1meg supra-ram before it would work... but it never guru's on me...


Somewhere I posted that all you need to do is run the TEST file to get it
to work (apparently it wasn't in this group).  People seem to be trying to
run it by rebooting, and that's why it's choking.

My $.04 worth    (inflation...)

Crystal
  ;>

Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos,comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: bell@ufp.enet.dec.com ()
Subject: Re: "Picture Enhancement"
Reply-To: bell@ufp.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:28:56 GMT


ADPro allows 3x3 or 5x5 image convolutions, which can produce some
stunning effects as well as do some of the normal-type operations such
as blurring, sharpening, etc.

I believe that streaking blurs are the worst to try and recover, because
you can't really specify an angle (at least in ADPro).

By the way, what George Zdsunzdsa (sp) said about their image
convolutions is blatantly false, or at least misrepresented.  He said
something like "if we programmed the computer to think it's looking for
a baboon, we'd get a baboon" or something.  Anyway, that's a morph
type-effect that doesn't apply to image enhancement.

Mike

disclaimer
From: Paul_Trauth@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Paul Trauth)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: LAST TIME!!! PLEASE RESPOND!  (Hardwired demo)
Distribution: world
Date: 11 Nov 92 11:04:23 CST
Organization: The Amiga GateWay BBS * New Orleans, La.

In a message dated Mon  9 Nov 92 19:22, Idr@rigel.cs.pdx.edu (ian D Romanic
wrote:

 IDR> Because of the way that they track load that demo, it won't work on
 IDR> any processor other than a 7Mhz 68000 (due to the speed).  It will
 IDR> also
 IDR> messup sometimes if you have real fast ram.
Actually, it also works on '010s. But who's got one of those? (they're dirt
cheap for a reason...)
...their busy-wait timing loops must be more than 3 instructions, i guess.

-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

- be zorch, daddi-o --------------- paul (raccoon) trauth ----------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet -> paul_trauth@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US        \\\///\\\///\\\
Usenet   -> rex!agwbbs!paul_trauth                      \\\///\\\///\\\
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "eagles may fly, but a weasel will never get sucked into a jet engine"
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: d90mj@efd.lth.se (Maarten Johansson)
Subject: Re: Phenomena egos??
Organization: Lund Institute of Technology, Sweden
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 10:13:57 GMT

In article <1992Nov7.203516.9849@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> mjbrown@lonestar.utsa.edu (Marc J. Brown) writes:
>In article <1dg7r7INNjil@gap.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:
>>But here...  out of 1000 or so undergraduates, I'd say there are at most
>>10 Amigas.  That's 1% at such a technically oriented college as mine.
>
>Isn't propaganda terrible? :)  I think it's ironic that the best computer
>is the least popular... but then, it's also true that morons are a
>majority.

In Europe (or Germany?) last year Commodore was the second best selling
company, they sold 12.4% of all computers. According to a scientific
report in Sweden almost half of all kids at an age of 10-12 where able
to use an Amiga at home.

****************************************************************
 d90mj@efd.lth.se - Celebrandil of Phenomena - Marten Johansson
****************************************************************
From: kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason Balicki (KodaK))
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: Phenomena egos??
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:05:54 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

>In article <1992Nov5.222433.7579@lth.se>, d90mj@efd.lth.se (Maarten Johansson) writes:
>>Just because you are a bit known in this fancy world of demos, people
>>think that you are arrogant. No, I'm not one of those egomaniacs who
>>thought they ruled the world in 1988. I left Fairlight almost three 
>>years ago just because of that. You americans don't know anything 
>>about eurodemos at all, so you better stop it. 

Calling someone a dickhead for getting the name of your group wrong is
pretty arrogant.  Oh, ok, I don't know anything about eurodemos at all hmmm?
You have *NO* right to make any kind of acusations or assumptions about
Americans, got it?  Try being nice to people and we won't think you're 
arrogant.  Don't make statements like "...I've NEVER made a mistake..." and
people won't think you're arrogant.  Now, if you want to take it to e-mail
fine, but I don't think this is what this group is made for...

--Jason Balicki
kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
From: jxp@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Joe Potter)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: Questions....
Date: 6 Nov 92 11:23:13 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh

In article <1992Nov6.025313.9002@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, jms1086@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
> Has there ever been a demo coded in any other langauage?? Cause I wanna 
> come up with a demo, but I don't know Assembly, nor do I have the time to 
> learn.. I do know C quite well, and actaully got some decent speed out of
> a couple vector (just lines though..Haven't tried prging the Blitter
> yet...) boxes... 

	I understand there are a lot of AMOS demos about.  Even compiled, I can't
imagine they'd be fast...
	C should be OK for most parts of a demo, but I'd recommend learning 68000
ASAP simply to get the max.
	When you use the blitter you should notice a hair-raising increase in speed.  I
would guess (I don't know how well your compiler works) around a 2000% increase in
speed.  The 68000 uses manymanymany cycles for its instructions (averageing around 6,
isn't it?) whereas the blitter uses two per word fetched.  Typically.

> Now.. I could use an algorithum for a Plasma... I would love to do one,
> but can't quite figure it out yet... Maybe an example algurithim (and
> a spelling checker?).. 

	What's difficult abour spelling 'algorithm'? :-)

> Also... What systems has HardWired worked on? Anyone get it working yet?
> Will it work on a: A2000, 1M Chip, 2M Fast, 2 Floppies?
> 

	It works (mostly) on my A1500 w/1M chip, 2M fast, 2 Floppies, GVP SCSI
board + 52MB drive, but crashed after a while.  I understand it works better on my pal's
A600.

						Joe.
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: tfinn@crash.cts.com (Aaron Grier)
Subject: Re: Phenomena egos??
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 06 Nov 92 16:26:50 PST

In article <MKNIP.92Nov6111146@blob.hut.fi> mknip@niksula.hut.fi (Mats Anders Knip) writes:
>[stuff about Tip deleted]
>Get that motherfucker out of the charts! He ain't worth it.His music
>is as mainstream as it could ever be (listen to Bruno - now that's a
>musician!) and his poor ego really shone through in the scrolltexts
>in "crystal sym.".  Yachhh....

Hmm... didn't Tip "redo" a tune by Moby? I thought that was kinda lame...

BTW, where can I find some modules by Bruno and Firefox on ftp? Names?

agrier@gompers.gompers.edu (real internet addy)
tfinn@crash.cts.com (UUCP address)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: Re: Phenomena egos??
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Date: 8 Nov 92 12:37:34 PST
 <1992Nov5.104002.1603@msus1.msus.edu> <1992Nov5.222433.7579@lth.se> <leifv.44.721059550@dhhalden.no>
Organization: TAP

Quoted from <leifv.44.721059550@dhhalden.no> by leifv@dhhalden.no (LEIF HUGO VARUM):

> So far all your arguments have proven you wrong...;)

    Geez, give it a rest.

>         /// Leif Hugo Vaarum, Solbakkvn. 9, 1777  HALDEN  
--
*** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: marvil@lysator.liu.se (Martin Vilcans)
Subject: Re: Music and Code from Demos
Organization: Lysator Academic Computer Society, Linkoping University, Sweden
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 21:58:41 GMT

schwamb@whale.micro.umn.edu (Peter William Schwamb) writes:

>In <1992Nov4.064022.13680@ntg.com> ewhac@ntg.com (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes:

>  <much deleted>
>>	Anyway.  I want to learn.  If someone could direct me to examples of
>>filled vectors, copper plasma, starfields, et al, so I can craft my own
>>stuff, I'd greatly appreciate it.

>Same here.  I don't want to 'cut and paste' it, just learn different
>techniques.

It's not very easy to get hold of good source codes, I guess you'd better
figure out how to do the things yourself, but do ask people how to do it
if you get stuck. I think you learn more that way.
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: tfinn@crash.cts.com (Aaron Grier)
Subject: Re: Phenomena egos??
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 08 Nov 92 16:20:34 PST

In article <1992Nov8.050234.20202@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> mjbrown@lonestar.utsa.edu (Marc J. Brown) writes:
>>I don't mean to sound harsh here, but I think demos are a thing of the
>>past.  They are behind the times.
>
>Many people... even IBM-owners (who are getting their first taste of
>demos), would strongly disagree.  Demos keep up with the times, if
>anything.

	Hey man... you've got to look at what demos really do! They are
practically useless, but fun nonetheless! Boy are they fun. There is just
something unexplainable about watching a good demo, even after the umpteen-
millionth time you've seen it.

	Demos you could say are an artform unto themselves.

agrier@gompers.gompers.edu (real internet addy)
tfinn@crash.cts.com (UUCP address)
From: wdao@aludra.usc.edu (Walter Dao)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
Subject: HBT modules ???
Date: 9 Nov 1992 22:53:21 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu


Does (or has anybody been able to rip-off) the techno module from the 
HBT demo (sunstone).
I would like to have it ..

				Walt
Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: marvil@lysator.liu.se (Martin Vilcans)
Subject: Re: Phenomena egos??
Organization: Lysator Academic Computer Society, Linkoping University, Sweden
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:49:19 GMT

keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:

>That's because so little has changed... besides, somehow I doubt that
>the demos (which emply many hardware tricks) will work so well on the
>A4000.  Many of them won't even run on my 3000...

Amiga demos does NOT do many "hardware tricks", as the Amiga hardware
can't be fooled to do things it shouldn't, as the hardware of the C64,
which has lots of "features" (such as border sprites etc.). The Amiga
hardware is well documented (until now with the AA chipset), so hardware
coding is legal, as long as you do it the right way.


Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: d90mj@efd.lth.se (Maarten Johansson)
Subject: Re: Phenomena egos??
Organization: Lund Institute of Technology, Sweden
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 09:37:58 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.060011.28572@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> mjbrown@lonestar.utsa.edu (Marc J. Brown) writes:
>In article <1992Nov5.222433.7579@lth.se> d90mj@efd.lth.se (Maarten Johansson) writes:
>>
>>You americans don't know anything
>>about eurodemos at all, so you better stop it.
>
>Maybe this is just a too-obvious attempt at flame-bait...ne?
>
>If one person has irritated you, try not to generalize so when you're
>flaming him.  Or if you have something against Americans in general, I
>still say it's safer to keep your opinions to yourself.
>
>BTW, wouldn't it be a shame if we were allowed to enter music by modem
>for the PartyII democomp? :)  There might be a few surprises...
>
> _____________  ________ __  ____  __  ______                                _
><__  _    _  //\\  __  // / / _  >/  \ \  ___> "Nan desu ka!? Kore.." -Ren_ //
>   \ \\  // //  \\ \< << <_/ // __ <\ \_> >    mjbrown@lonestar.utsa.edu  \X/
> () \/ \/ \//____\\/ \/ \___/<_/  \_>\___/ ()  of M==E==G==A==W==A==T==T==S
>

No, I don't dislike Americans and it's often stupid to generalize like
that. All those Americans I know are really nice friends in fact, but most
of them still don't know anything about eurodemos. 

You are free to enter (almost) any democompo in Europe if you like to. If 
you send me a module I can help you enter the next one in Denmark. Music
and demos are still not the same though. 

I have got phonecalls from Americans in the middle of the night a couple
of times. The reason why they call is just in order to complain. I know
that I can't generalize too much, but I haven't seen any good american
demos since EagleSoft in 1986. 

About one year ago I tried to start an American Demo Chart like the 
EuroChart by Crusaders, to make people more aware of the existing american
demos. Maybe that's a good idea, don't you think?

Don't Blame The Lame!

****************************************************************
 d90mj@efd.lth.se - Marten Johansson - Celebrandil of Phenomena
****************************************************************

 

Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: marvil@lysator.liu.se (Martin Vilcans)
Subject: Re: Phenomena egos??
Organization: Lysator Academic Computer Society, Linkoping University, Sweden
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 13:56:13 GMT

njale@dhhalden.no (NJAL EIDE) writes:

>>Just writing programs in C doesn't make them portable to newer
>>machines. C programmers can do the very same mistakes as assembler
>>programmers. The only difference in portability between C and assembler is
>>that C programs sometimes can be ported to a machine with a different
>>processor, but since we're talking Amiga, that's off subject.
>>
>Sorry, but you are wrong. Pure C programs are much more portable. You will 
>at worst have to recompile with a newer compiler (if your old compiler 
>generates code that doesn't follow Commodores programming guidelines.) 
>Anyway your source-code would still be the same.

No, you are wrong. C programmers can do the same mistakes as assembler
programmers. A few examples:
  Assuming structures of private system structures
  Altering system structures which shouldn't be altered
  No proper error handling, which causes the computer to crash
  Assuming the order of which separate task will finish

These are some of the things Commodore has warned us of, and both C and
assembler programmers can do these mistakes. The difference is that is is
easier to program the hardware directly in assembler, but just writing in
assembler don't make the programs unportable and 'nasty'.

And, OS-coded demos would not be as amazing as the hardcoded ones.

Newsgroups: alt.sys.amiga.demos
From: marnold@cwis.unomaha.edu (Matthew Eldon Arnold)
Subject: Everybody, get "ACM 3.0"
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 05:05:49 GMT

I see lots of posts saying, "Hey, how do I code plasma is BASIC" or
"Gee, where does one begin programming these things?"

You only need to be given the proper documentation.  "The Amiga 'C'
Manual 3.0" can be found on Fred Fish disks 691 - 695.  It unarcs to
nearly eight megs.  It covers so much I can't even begin to explain it
all.  Most of it is well-documented source code.

This is what you've been waiting for.  Sure beats to crappy books by Abacus.
Now quit reading news and go code some 'C'.

-- 
+-----------+    /\/\                            Since computers become 
| Will code |   //\/\\                           dated so quickly, UNO 
| for food  |  //    \\arnold@cwis.unomaha.edu   issues CSCI degrees with 
+-----------+  ===============================   an expiration date.