HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lld7522@usl.edu (Delcambre Lois L)
Subject: Shipping Canoe
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 21:32:51 GMT

  I am moving from Louisiana to  Oregon and need to ship my Mad
River Explorer.   The moving companies want a 700 pound surcharge
because of the volume the canoe requires.  I am looking for alternative
means of shipping the canoe. ie freight line, rail.  If anyone has any
experience with this or has information that can be of help, please
email to me at the address below.   NOTE that  this is not the posting
address.

Thanks,
 
    Chuck Delcambre                chuck@gator.cacs.usl.edu
    Delcambre Software, Inc        (318)989-8775
    2130 Kaliste Saloom Rd #210
    Lafayette, LA 70508
From: GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: shark attack on kayak
Date: 19 Nov 1992 21:32:46 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1992Nov20.005029.13573@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
morgan@leland.Stanford.EDU (RL "Bob" Morgan) writes:
>and smaller animals and going for the juvenile elephant seals.  Unlike
>someone's claim about shark territoriality (aquatality?), these sharks
>only show up at the Farallons for the two or three months that the
>elephant seals are there (just this time of year, actually).

That was me, I SAID territorial and it's not what I really meant.
You are correct, they will hang around an area until the food goes
away, then move on.  Sorry.

Mike
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: tmenten@boi.hp.com (Tom Menten)
Subject: Re: New newsgroup
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:53:29 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

I agree with the split.  I may continue to subscribe to both, scanning the
titles of the .row group to see if there's something of interest to me.

Looking ahead to some of the other finer distinctions that could be made
(sea kayaking, slalom kayaking, lake canoeing) I don't think it's just the
paddle/oar that distinguishes the interest.  Even though there may be no 
perfect word, doesn't "crew" kind of capture the spirit of crew-like events?
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: dsj@juniper12.cray.com (Douglas Jackson)
Subject: squirt boat + info
Originator: dsj@juniper12
Keywords: squirt
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 19 Nov 92 22:28:50 CST


1. I am interested in purchasing a used squirt boat
   for around $100.  I travel a fair amount so I may
   be able to pick it up somehow.

2. I am interested in river information about Southern
   Rivers.  What rivers would be runnable on Thanksgiving
   weekend.  I heard that the New River (W.Virginia) might
   be...  If anyone has recommendations let me know.  If
   anyone is interested in paddling too!

Thanks in advance,

Douglas Jackson
-- 


	-Doug
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: morgan@nolichucky.rtp.dg.com (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: which canoe to buy?
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 14:31:12 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC

In article <BxrKv4.A5p@world.std.com>, rscarlet@world.std.com (Rich Scarlet) writes:
|> the Royalex canoes. We have an Oldtown and have been very pleased with it
|> - rugged and easy to maintain, reasonably light, etc. BUT it has NO KEEL.
|> It's a pig in a crosswind on open water!

This probably has less to do with the absence of a keel than with the shape of the boat.
I have several kevlar canoes with no keel, and the ones with lower profiles and sharper
entry lines handle just fine in crosswinds.  The ones with more freeboard and flatter
bottoms produce a lot more adrenalin and promises to the water gods to never do this
foolishness again when the wind kicks up 2-3 foot waves.  In the spring we get some
pretty good wind & when it gets big enough to keep the powerboaters off the lakes I
like to put on my wetsuit & play in the waves with my We*No*Nah Advantage.  It has
nice, sharp entry lines and handles like a charm in the wind & waves.
  
-- 
Keith Morgan
Data General
Research Triangle Park, NC
(919)248-6078
morgan@dg-rtp.dg.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: bent kayaks, Thrillseeker address?
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:32:32 GMT

tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:
>Wouldn't a keyhole cockpit help in these [broach] situations?

This is my current theory on this subject.

Obviously it will depend on the situation (i.e. how fast the boat
collapses, etc).  But, once the boat collapses, you won't be able
to get your legs out of the boat, key-hole or not.  The only thing
the key-hole offers is the ability to get your knees out of the
boat, not your legs.  I also think boats with bulk-heads are going
to collapse faster than boats with pilars.

--Chris
From: bml2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (BRIAN MICHAEL LUCY)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: INPUT 2 CENTS WORTH!
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:47:45 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Nov16.054253.44814@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, doty@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
writes:
>Here's your chance!!
>
>Anybody and everybody with their 2 cents worth burning a whole in
>their pockets is welcome to respond.
>
>I got the chance to go on 2 rafting trips this summer and I loved it
>and I want to continue.  However I went as a total novice(basically I
>know nothing about the sport).  I didn't get to try kayaking then but
>I would like to.  For all you kayak people out there, what would it
>cost to get in to the sport(i.e. kayak, equipment, etc..)?  What
>should I know before looking for equipment? etc...
>
>I am not a weekend warrior.  I've played sports most of my
>life(soccer, football, racquetball, swimming), but due to a knee
>injury I can't really enjoy those.

    One thing you may want to consider is how your knee injury may effect your
    kayaking.  Most nonboaters think you just sit in a boat and use only your
    upper body.  The truth is that one of the paddler's main contact points in
    the boat is at the knees.  Personally, I sit in a position where my knees
    are locked in place against the knee pads which I feel gives me greater
    control than just the seat and footpedals.  My point, though, is that my
    knees are under constant pressure and after a long day paddling I often
    have bruises just to the inside of my kneecaps.  I don't know the nature
    of your injury, but you may want to keep this in mind in making your
    decision.


>I am interested in kayaking as
>something to continue with for some years.
>
>Thanks in advance...  (reply public or private).
>
>          +---------------------------------------------------------+
>          |  Chad A. Doty                 Doty@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu   |
>          |  University of Kansas         Doty@ukanvax              |
>          |  --Computer Science           op77@ukanaix.cc.ukans.edu |
>          |  --Philosophy                 op77@ukanvm               |
>          +---------------------------------------------------------+
>
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: roy@zooks.eng.mcmaster.ca (Roy Underhill)
Subject: Re: Solo canoe for Heavy Paddler: which one?
Summary: Do much paddling FIRST, buy canoe SECOND
Keywords: which canoe
Organization: Dept. of Mech. Eng., McMaster University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:49:32 GMT


	Here's a couple of comments from a biased observer.  First
there was the question about which canoe to buy.  Then there was some
commentary offered on a couple of models.  
	Now my bias, I am 6'4", 210 lbs - so I qualify as "heavy" for
this discussion.  I have paddled some variety of canoes under a reasonable 
variety of conditions.  I instruct whitewater technique too.  I have 
eventually settled on a large traditional style canoe, 17' long, 
36" wide, 16" deep, 5 layers of kevlar, oak gunwales.  This canoe can 
dance under just about any conditions.  It has lots of rocker and little 
keel  under a shallow arch.  If ever I obtain or make another, I will not 
have an external keel) under a shalow arch.  I spend up to 4 months a year 
living with my canoe as home.  
	What I have concluded is that no design or material should be
used to make for what one lacks in expertise.  Fancy materials do not
excuse hitting rocks.  That extra inch of rocker will not let a canoe
spin where the paddlers vision will not take it.  Tracking, pivoting and
balancing are things that paddlers do, not canoes. 
	I would not suggest that this model or that one is right or
wrong.  Let your friend paddle many hours in many canoes.  THEN, when
he/she/it has found one to suit that individual's liking, buy that one.  
Over a year or three, taste in paddling develops as well as skill.  There may
be little point in trying to get a "best fit" of boat to paddler until
the paddler is much more developed and has some opinions to own.
	Until then, enjoy every minute of it!  Harangue ends.



Roy
-- 
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  
  Roy Underhill,  (416) 525-9140 x4395   roy@zooks.eng.mcmaster.ca 
  Department of Mechanical Engineering,  McMaster University, 
  Hamilton,  Ontario,  Canada            L8S 4L7
From: afinch@bu.edu (Andrew Finch)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: New Rowing Newsgroup
Date: 23 Nov 92 01:07:07 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5


	About a month ago I posed the question to 
	this group as to whether a new group should
	be formed or not.  I was a new user then
	and thought that it would be a great idea.
	Since then many people have come forth from
	nowhere and expressed concern for the topic.
	I just want to know how a new group can be 
	formed and if someone is presently working 
	on it.  I also think that this rec.boats.paddle
	must be dominated by many younger individuals.
	It is absolutely immature and very high-schoolish
	to play the old "Well my sport is better than 
	your sport" bullshit.  Why can't the kayakers
	and the rowers just accept each other.  I know
	this this will probabley never happen however,
	because too many of you abuse this system and
	use it to hide behind their senseless comments.
	Let's just shut up about who is better than who
	and try to settle the new group business.  I 
	myself would try to do it but do not know how.
	I have only been at this for a month.  I happen to
	think rowing is the ultimate sport but that 
	doesn't mean all the kayakers are weak, non-athletic,
	assholes.  It just means that they think kayaking
	is the ultimate sport.  Let's leave it at that
	and use this board properly.  This should be the 
	last post dealing with the subject of rowers and
	kayakers constantly bickering.  

		"To erg is human, to row, divine"
				-Andrew Finch
From: ghee@vision.larc.nasa.gov (Terry A. Ghee)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: shark attack on kayak
Date: 18 Nov 1992 20:48:06 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: vision.larc.nasa.gov
Keywords: sharks yellow zebra Dowd snacks munch-munch

Bryan Allen writes:

  Sharks detect prey with a variety of sensory inputs (including a
  resistive (electrical) sense); sight is used only if water clarity
  facilitates it and only during 'final approach' as it were. Their
  vision (in most species) is good, but the rest of their sensory
  'bag of tricks' is in total rather amazing/awesome. And Great Whites
  have gotten used to pretty much getting their way for tens of millions
  of years. So I doubt there is some sort of 'magic bullet' solution.


Just an aside, sharks close there eyes just before biting to protect
them.  Saw this on a PBS special, they use there electrical sense the
final fractions of seconds.  That was the reason the pBS documentary
gave for sharks attacking large metal objects (like motors) instead
of hitting there target.  Seems their sensors get mighty confused.
I guess the trick in a kayak is not to do anything that mimics
their prey.  I like the trick of painting the kayak to look like
a killer whale, would look kind o' sharp :-).
From: scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: INPUT 2 CENTS WORTH!
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:13:39 GMT
Reply-To: scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears)
Organization: Columbia University

In article <1992Nov16.054253.44814@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> doty@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>I got the chance to go on 2 rafting trips this summer and I loved it
>and I want to continue.  However I went as a total novice(basically I
>know nothing about the sport).  I didn't get to try kayaking then but
>I would like to.  For all you kayak people out there, what would it
>cost to get in to the sport(i.e. kayak, equipment, etc..)?  What
>should I know before looking for equipment? etc...  
>
>I am not a weekend warrior.  I've played sports most of my
>life(soccer, football, racquetball, swimming), but due to a knee
>injury I can't really enjoy those.  I am interested in kayaking as
>something to continue with for some years.

	I assume we're talking whitewater kayaking here, as you mentioned
	that you'd been rafting.

	My advice would be to try an inflatable kayak first. They are easier
	pick up quickly, and you can rent them a lot of places. Hardshell 
	kayaks are harder to find to rent, and take some getting used to 
	before you can have fun in them. You can have fun in an inflatable
	after about five minutes of practice. 

	If you really like inflatables, maybe you just stick with them (many
	people on the net indicate having tried both inflatables and hardshells
	and preferring inflatables). If you like the idea but want something
	different, then you can try a hardshell. I would recommend some kind
	of clinic to try, as it's the cheapest and safest way to try
	kayaking, as clinics will provide all the gear.

	If you do decide to buy either of these, the gear isn't cheap, but
	at least you don't (usually) have to pay anything once you have
	the gear. Someone already quoted prices for hardshells; I think
	inflatables run around $800, but I could be off.

	Good luck on your new sport. If you have any other questions or
	want the address of the (IMHO) best kayaking clinic around, 
	you can e-mail me...

>          |  Chad A. Doty                 Doty@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu   |

-------
"Don't believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear."  -  Lou Reed
Sea-Bass Sears --> scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu --> DoD#516 <-- |Stanley, ID.|
'79 Yamaha XS750F -- '85 Toyota 4Runner -- Perception Corsica  |  NYC, NY.  |
From: billf@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Bill Faus)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:12:40 GMT
Subject: Re: Reverse Screw Roll?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle


Well...I think I discovered a way to learn this roll on my own 
which makes a lot more sense than Neely's book or Hutchinson.

First, practice a regular screw roll with a transition
to a forward sweep at the end of the back sweep.

Gradually, do less and less of the back sweep and 
depend more and more on coming up on the forward sweep.  

Eventually, you can just go through the arm motions
(i.e. no hip snap) of the back sweep.  Then, at the
end of this fake back sweep your body will be
pretty much in position for the beginning of
a reverse screw roll.

Only, there's very little sweep.  Mostly, you use
the tip of the blade to provide support for
an easy hip snap.  I say easy, because with
your body laid back against the rear deck
it takes little effort to roll yourself upright.  

Have I got it right?

-bill

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: brez8986@mach1.wlu.ca (James Brezina u)
Subject: Kayak clinic in KW area?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Summary: Looking For... 
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 22:04:18 GMT
Keywords: Want to learn

I was just wondering if anyone knew of a somewhere that I could get some
info on a place that offers kayaking lessons/clinics etc. in the Kitchener
Waterloo are (if such exists).  I was introduced to kayaking at a camp
that I worked at two summers ago and thoroughly enjoyed it.  It was only
flatwater, but that in itself was an accomplishment (med. reasons...)
Anyhow, this past summer I spent a decent chunk of my time (again at the
same camp) kayaking.  I'm almost at the point now that I can do a longhand
roll (that's what I was told that it's called anyhow...).  Now I know
there are a number of you out there thinking "Big Deal..."  Well
(once again, med reasons) it is for me that it considering that I have a fairly
prominent balance problem (seems to get worse in a Kayak, not too bad on
dry land though).
 
Well, there I go rambling on again.  Sorry.  Any info would be greatly
appreciated.

Thanx...

--==> jIm <==--
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy)
Subject: Re: squirt boat + info
Keywords: squirt
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 02:36:13 GMT


Doug, the New river is always running....we only do it when nothing
else is running because many times it is the only thing running.
This time of year things are starting to run more and with the temps
being what they are, you don't want to swim the width of the New if
you need to although in a Squirt boat, your pretty wet a lot of the
time anyway.  I have been told that the middle and lower Gualey is
running right now and we are either gonna kayak the loop on the Yough
or the Cheat and Narrows Sunday...other than that, haven't heard about
much else running but it is scheduled to rain...yea
From: jhgillespie@ucdavis.edu (John Gillespie)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Shark attack
Date: 18 Nov 92 21:48:43 GMT
Followup-To: rec.boats.paddle
Organization: Center for Population Biology, UCD

Does anyone have any details about the shark attack on an
ocean kayaker that occurred off Ano Nuevo (Sp?) this
past weekend?
From: MDD114@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: New Rowing Newsgroup
Date: 23 Nov 92 17:24:19 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

The following was written:


        About a month ago I posed the question to
        this group as to whether a new group should
        be formed or not.  I was a new user then
        and thought that it would be a great idea.
        Since then many people have come forth from
        nowhere and expressed concern for the topic.
        I just want to know how a new group can be
        formed and if someone is presently working
        on it.  I also think that this rec.boats.paddle
        must be dominated by many younger individuals.
        It is absolutely immature and very high-schoolish
        to play the old "Well my sport is better than
        your sport" bullshit.  Why can't the kayakers
        and the rowers just accept each other.  I know
        this this will probabley never happen however,
        because too many of you abuse this system and
        use it to hide behind their senseless comments.
        Let's just shut up about who is better than who
        and try to settle the new group business.  I
        myself would try to do it but do not know how.
        I have only been at this for a month.  I happen to
        think rowing is the ultimate sport but that
        doesn't mean all the kayakers are weak, non-athletic,
        assholes.  It just means that they think kayaking
        is the ultimate sport.  Let's leave it at that
        and use this board properly.  This should be the
        last post dealing with the subject of rowers and
        kayakers constantly bickering.

                "To erg is human, to row, divine"
                                -Andrew Finch

I agree with Mr Finch whole heartedly.  If this newsgroup is to ever become a
 reality we need to work together.  I am 100% for the new rowing newsgroup.

I have tried to look into the proceedure of "New news groups."  I have found mo
stly the same thing as Mr Gumby did at Choate.  Mr Gumby has made some efforts
in the past few weeks to get this news group going.  Howeverhe and all other r
owers need to get together and make sure there is enough support for this group
.  Once we get this support I feel we can start the procedure.  There is no sen
ce in trying to get votes if no one is going to vote.  So we as rowers all need
 to come together and get this accomplished.

I am willing to help in the forming of this newsgroup.  If no one objects I wil
l keep a running list of all interested rowers and there addresses.  thus, we c
an contact them as needed.

I have a few addresses thus far.

*******If you are an intersested rower, or are interested in seeing a rowing ne
ws group please mail your address to me at.... MDD114@psuvm.psu.edu**********

This is what I am willing to do. I will find out as much as I can, and if other
 rowers or interest people are willing to help, please jump in.

If I made any ediquite mistakes and any one has any helpful hints please flame
me at MDD114@psuvm.psu.edu  I will do my best to keep withinthe lines of ediqu
ite.  And dont mind spelling.

Thank you mark.
From: Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Royalex canoes
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:05:55 GMT
Reply-To: Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk

rlarsen@bnr.ca (Richard Larsen P220) writes:
> Royalex is intended for whitewater use. That is why there is no
> keel. It would hamper the manuverability of the canoe. Yes, without
> a keel you will do a lot of sideslipping in a crosswind. I have
> an Old Town Penobscott 16' that is relatively fast and handles
> crosswinds not too badly.

Two guys travelled round Wales this summer in a Mad River Revelation, a
17' Royalex canoe with the classic Mad River 'shallow V' hull, no keel. 
Some 2/3 of the trip is on the sea and they did a mixture of paddling
and sailing.  They sailed the boat using a small lateen sail and a
leeboard.  That information isn't going to help much if you just want to
get home across your lake in a crosswind, but it does show you don't
necessarily need a keel to handle a wind. 


Sam
From: brianj@bedrock.cs.umd.edu (Brian Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Paddle Length (was Re: river rescur)
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:40:15 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Univ. of MD, College Park, MD 20742
In-reply-to: sbranch@well.sf.ca.us's message of 15 Nov 92 03:48:09 GMT

I have 200cm (198-202) paddle with about a 45 degree blade offset.
I'm 6'1" and I love it.

Conventional wisdom would deem it too short, but as far as I'm
concerned the shorter the better.  I don't want a lot of extra paddle
flopping all about.

I'm also a big fan of the moderate offset.  Why should I be cranking
my wrist back all the time?  I like to paddle down river, not up wind.
I don't like it on really windy days when I'm paddling into gale force
winds (1% of my paddling), but otherwise I love it.

Brian
--
Brian Johnson                                       Computer Science Department
brianj@cs.umd.edu                                        University of Maryland
(301) 405-2725                                           College Park, Md 20742

  ...there are no strangers in this world, only friends who have never met...
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: rlarsen@bnr.ca (Richard Larsen P220)
Subject: Re: Chad's questions about kayaks
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:14:49 GMT

It depends on what kind of kayaking you want to get involved in. There
is whitewater, sea kayaking, flatwater racing, whitewater racing, and
flatwater touring. There are different materials for different applications.

The most popular is polyethelene (like tupperware) because it is rugged
and relatively inexpensive. Poly is somewhat heavy though. Fiberglass
is about the same price and is lighter but not as durable. Kevlar is
very light and strong but the most expensive.

A whitewater kayak made of poly will cost about $700 to $800 new. A paddle
will cost $100 to $150. PFDs for about $50. A kevlar kayak will cost over
$1000. Sea kayaks are longer and heavier and cost $800 to $1300 depending
on options selected.