HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Subject: Re: Undecidability and the FAQ
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
	<TORKEL.92Sep4132357@isis.sics.se> <1nnncpj@lynx.unm.edu>
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 16:30:48 GMT

In article <1nnncpj@lynx.unm.edu> bevans@carina.unm.edu (Mathemagician) writes:

   >I await with interest why you claim that CH isn't known to be
   >undecidable if we assume ZF is consistent.

  I have claimed nothing of the sort. You're babbling, incoherently. Allow
me to repeat: the simple point at issue is this, that it is not provable
in ZFC that the continuum hypothesis is undecidable in ZFC. Do you
understand this or not?
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: bevans@carina.unm.edu (Mathemagician)
Subject: Re: not BECAUSE GOD SAID SO, but it is right
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 13:57:17 GMT
Organization: Society for the Preservation of E. coli

Most of these comments relate more to monogamy than marriage.

And for some, they only relate to heterosexual intercourse
(f'rinstance, I don't have to worry about children being a consequent
of sex since I don't sleep with women.)

And the comment that men can't be raped is ludicrous.

-- 
Brian Evans                |     "Bad mood, bad mood...Sure I'm in a bad mood!
bevans@carina.unm.edu      |      I haven't had sex...*EVER!*" -- Virgin Mary
From: jmm25@po.CWRU.Edu (Jessica M. Mcgeary)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: The Doors
Date: 11 Sep 1992 03:18:25 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


In other words, God is more or less like Richard P. Feynman.

Sounds like the kind of God I can believe in.

-- 
Jessica McGeary
jmm25@po.cwru.edu
Case Western Reserve University
Remember! Arguments should be FUN!
From: jmm25@po.CWRU.Edu (Jessica M. Mcgeary)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 13 Sep 1992 07:08:09 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


I did seven consecutive years in Catholic school. The nuns there
taught me that it is not a sin to BE a homosexual, or to feel homosexual
urges. It is, according to the Great White Father in Rome, a sin to ACT
upon said urges. So, technically, homosexuality isn't a sin... homosexual
acts are the sin.

I also worked for lawyers for quite some time this past year. Hair splitting
at its finest.
-- 
Jessica McGeary
jmm25@po.cwru.edu
Case Western Reserve University
Remember! Arguments should be FUN!
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)
Subject: Re: assholes revisited
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 08:26:51 GMT

j1moody@darwin.cc.nd.edu (Humpty Dumpty) writes:

>It was amusing to see so many level-headed, objective athiests get so 
>frazzled at being labeled assholes. The vengefully rude, insecure
>and irrational replies to my original post was all I needed to confirm my
>obtrusive assumption.

I have seen some people that I would label as such.  Of course, theists are
always perfect people, aren't they?  I cannot see that the Jesus you so 
revere would approve of your actions here.  At least the atheists aren't
hypocrites, which is a grave crime.

>Now imagine all the things they called Jesus, even as the blood poured down
>his brow.  And what was his reply?

>"They know not what they do."

Well, either this Jesus guy had some mental problems (perhaps he actually
thought that he was the son of a god), or else others have ascribed these
words to him (or perhaps both).

>Maybe you all will figure the spiritual life out some frightful day,
>when you stop figuring.

Sorry, I do not wish to be brainwashed.  There is no figuring about it.  There
simply is not a god, despite the fact that so many people believe in one.
There is no need to disprove its existance (or lack thereof).

We know that you truely believe there is a god.  This is so deeply ingrained
in your mind that you will probably never recover from it.  Oh well, religion
often causes problems, but it doesn't always do so.  It is probably not worth
the trouble trying to convince anyone of their errors.  It is just like
trying to convince those people that claim to have been abducted by aliens
that they have just experienced a lucid psychologial phenomenon.

keith
.
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc,sci.skeptic,alt.religion.kibology
From: dchatham@utkvx2.utk.edu (Chatham, Doug)
Subject: Re: Pi and the US $$ system was (Re: Pythagorean Reform Church)
Summary: Let's go all the way. 
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: $Pi, $i, humor, Pythagorean Church 
Organization: University of Tennessee Computing Center
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 23:30:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.083942.18126@ttinews.tti.com>, bsmart@bsmart.TTI.COM (Bob Smart) writes...
>In article <87mn6am@lynx.unm.edu>, jfreter@triton.unm.edu (The Myth) writes:
>> Has anyone ever thought of making out a check for $Pi?  or for $e ?
>> 
>> I'm willing to take all these checks to the bank and see what they do when
>> I cash them.
> 
>I doubt it will be very exciting, although you'll probably get to argue
>with a branch manager for a while.  The final result will be that you
>get paid $3.14 -- rounding and truncation take place all the time in
>finiancial transactions (like 6.12% simple interest on $100.23).  When
>interest rates or other functions don't come out even in pennies, the
>result is jammed into something finite anyway.
> 
>For extra fun for your entertainment dollar, try writing such a check to
>the IRS!

	And while we're at it, why not go all the way and write the following:
(1) a check for $0.00 to respond to a billing notice DEMANDING you pay the
$0.00 due ASAP;

(2) a check for a negative amount of money (say -$100).  I wonder what the
bank's reaction would be to that (assuming it even notices); and

(3) (The height of silliness) a check for $i, where i*i=-1.

	I hope I haven't offended any sincere Pythagorean believers.  By the
way, would someone repeat the major tenets of the Reformed Pythagorean Church
(if such have been decided upon)?
From: sham@cs.arizona.edu (Shamim Zvonko Mohamed)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Another quote
Date: 9 Sep 92 23:28:40 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

>In article <1992Sep9.124254.6597@iscsvax.uni.edu>, marshall1198@iscsvax.uni.edu writes...
>>        Without science, Christianity is lame.
>>        Without Christianity, science is aimless.

In article <BuBu8B.8E0@acsu.buffalo.edu> v22964qs@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Mike Cluff) writes:
>Here's a better one:

>	Without science, Christianity is lame.
>	Without Christianity, sciences gain.

And might I add:
    Without science, Christianity is lame.
    With science, Christianity is utterly ridiculous!

[For the dense, and religious: it's a JOKE, son!]

-s
--
  Shamim Mohamed / {uunet,noao,cmcl2..}!arizona!shamim / shamim@cs.arizona.edu
  "Take this cross and garlic; here's a Mezuzah if he's Jewish; a page of the
    Koran if he's a Muslim; and if he's a Zen Buddhist, you're on your own."
 Member of the League for Programming Freedom - write to league@prep.ai.mit.edu
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Free will - the "Jarekian" heresy.
Date: 7 Sep 92 07:17:37 GMT
Followup-To: alt.atheism
Organization: Apple

In article <graham.715833183@galois>, graham@maths.su.oz.au (Graham
Matthews) wrote:
> (Jarek Dabrowski) writes:
> >Imagine yourself as such a being. Wouldn't you, first of all, learn
> >about which things you have to know and what consequences would this
> >knowledge have? 
> 
> Jarek projecting his ideals onto God yet again! Jarek how do you know
> what a God would do? You are just guessing.

True, how could even deists try to understand an intelligence
far more vast than theirs? Jarek, it's impossible. You could never
figure out how this super-intelligent being ticks, how much you
try.

I think it's another nail in the coffin concerning understanding
how omnipotence works. For me it's another good excuse why I don't
want to get involved in figuring out how Gods think.

Kent

"I would rather have a thousands idiots attacking my position, than
have one idiot helping to defend it."	[Paraphrased from Voltaire]
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Crusades; Once more into the breach
Date: 16 Sep 92 02:00:43 GMT
Followup-To: alt.atheism
Organization: Apple

In article <1992Sep11.173051.23529@csrd.uiuc.edu>,
skinner@sp2.csrd.uiuc.edu (Gregg Skinner) wrote:
> I don't know what I've said to make you think this.  I not only grasp
> this possibility; I suspect it may be true.  But my beliefs are not
> the subject here.  It is Christianity that is under scrutiny.  I
> observe that Christianity holds that Jesus was the son of God and that
> Paul did not make a lot of erroneous statements.

My humble but firm opinion is that in order to understand modern
time Christianity we need to understand Paul. In order to understand
the original church Christianity we need to understand Jesus. It's 
a nice separation that seems to work fine.

For instance, Jesus main mission was to make people prepared for the
final days and the Kingdom of God and the end of the Roman tyranny.

For Paul Jesus ment a personal salvation and a new trinity-based
God that raised from the ashes and saved his soul.

The interesting notion is how we finally ended up with a dual
aspect of Christian notion, where Jesus words and Pauli doctrines
were merged together for form Christianity we know today.

Cheers,
Kent

"I would rather have a thousands idiots attacking my position, than
have one idiot helping to defend it."	[Paraphrased from Voltaire]
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.
From: bb099@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Adam Trent Phillips)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: RE:Would you do ANYTHING God told you....?
Date: 15 Sep 1992 12:38:26 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


	I would prefer SPAM !

-- 
"Speak to me in many voices, make them all sound like one.
 Let me see your sacred mysteries, reveal to me the unknown tounge."--B.O.C.
A. Trent Phillips     |personal E-mail:bb099@cleveland.freenet.edu
alias:White Rook      |   NWROC E-mail:usr6418a@tso.uc.edu
From: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu (Charles Hedrick)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Proof: God wrote the Bible
Date: 12 Sep 92 04:58:12 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

charless@sco.com (charles stross) writes:

>BZZZT wrong!

>The N.T. was written in Aramaic and translated into Greek about one to
>two centuries later.

I think you're confused.  There is one scholar (Lamsa?) who claims
this, but he's not taken seriously.  Most people think that Jesus
spoke Aramaic, but recently some have started challenging this.  At
any rate, as far as scholars can tell, the NT books were written
originally in Greek.  There's an early tradition that Matthew wrote a
document in Hebrew.  Most likely this means Aramaic.  But none of the
commentators I've read believe the current Gospel according to Matthew
is a translation of it.  There's no reason to think that any of the
other NT documents were written in Aramaic.  The earliest actual
manuscript we have is from 100 to 120 AD, a fragment of John.  It's in
Greek.  Most of the NT documents were written primarily for Gentile
audiences.  There would be no reason to use Aramaic for them.

It's true that there are traces of Aramaic behind some of the NT
documents, particularly the Gospels.  This may indicate Aramaic
sources, or just the fact the Jesus spoke originally in Aramaic.
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: gsmith@lauren.uucp (Gene W. Smith)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: IWR, University of Heidelberg, Germany
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 14:36:08 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.193139.4493@cs.yale.edu> rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:

>>Perhaps Mr. Rescorla, you could be a bit clearer about what your point
>>is.  How the hell do you prove that anything is immoral?

>I have no clue. That's why I don't make claims about
>what is moral or not.

This is idiotic.  If you have no standard for deciding if someone has
adequately demonstrated the immorality of something or other, why are
you complaining that people are failing to meet this standard?

For your information, most people seem to be using common-sense
standards involving what causes harm (as that would be normally
understood) to decide what is immoral or not.  For instance, if I were
to break into your home, kick you out of you wheelchair, and choke you
until you gave me everything of value which was handy, a common-sense
perpective would tell us that this is immoral.  You may disagree, but
you disagreement has so far failed to acheive any kind of intellectual
coherence.


-- 
     Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/IWR/Ruprect-Karls University 
                gsmith@kalliope.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Subject: Re: Christianic Sacrificesdir
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:40:57 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.133408.6644@iscsvax.uni.edu> marshall1198@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
}It may be so that churches are "seeped in evil", but not all of them. 

Given that you don't survive an encounter with one that it, how are you
suppose to know BEFORE they go out and kill the heathen.

OR whoever they happen to accidently grab and burn?

The FIRST mistake would be the LAST mistake.  Sorry, but I don't care to
play such games.  Running fast and far sounds like a VERY reasonable course
of action.
From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: I still seem to be God
Date: 14 Sep 92 22:54:15 GMT
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <BuKnrz.3A8@knot.ccs.queensu.ca> cisc124@jeff-lab.queensu.ca (Colleen Davis) writes:
>bwilliam@iat.holonet.net (Bill Williams)
>
>Bill is the third disciple and prophet.  Blessed is
>Bill, for he has found favour in the eyes of Colleen.

I would ask Thee a question, Colleen.

Behold, not long ago Thou wast pleased to make a pledge on this forum
to the effect that, if someone prove to Thee that Thou art not God,
Thou wouldst convert to whatever religion he chose to name; and
further, that Thou wouldst instruct the disciples Steve and Dave, the
blessed twain whom Thou hadst at that time, to go out and convert as
many as possible to the same religion.

Seeing that in the meantime Thou acquiredst a third disciple, if a
proof of Thy not being God be announced now, dost mean to instruct
also Bill in the same manner as the other twain, and send him on the
same errand?

The reason I ask Thee this is that perchance someone holdeth a proof,
but prefereth to wait till the number of Thy disciples groweth enow,
so that at the end he may, upon presentation of the proof, win them
all, and have more proponents of his chosen religion to command.

-- 
 `If ye hiv ears oan yer heid - then use them tae lissen.' (The Glasgow Gospel)
Ivan A Derzhanski   (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk;  iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,  Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
* Cowan House, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Park Road, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: millernw@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Neal Miller)
Subject: Re: End of the World...
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 22:22:09 GMT

millernw@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Neal Miller) writes:

>I, for one, am scared.  Not of October, 1994, but of the decisions that

	Oops... My mistake... I meant September 1994, like it makes a 
difference.   ;-)


>--
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Neal Miller         | "Why not go mad?"  | millernw@craft.camp.clarkson.edu
> Clarkson University |     - Ford Prefect |     dark@craft.camp.clarkson.edu
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Neal Miller         | "Why not go mad?"  | millernw@craft.camp.clarkson.edu
 Clarkson University |     - Ford Prefect |     dark@craft.camp.clarkson.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: 9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Virgin Goddess ....
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:19:14 +0930
Organization: University of South Australia

> Virgin Goddess?  Now, there's an idea!  If only I could
> remember where I heard it before ....
>
> BTW, I heard on the radio this morning (normal secular radio,
> mind you) that JC and his mom made an appearance yesterday
> somewhere in Kentucky.  Lots of people claimed to see the
> wonderful apparition.  When one of the lucky viewers was
> asked why some people saw the sight and others did not,
> the answer was that you had to be a believer to see it.
>
> Hmmm ...

Hmmm is right. I've just thought of something.
Remember how Jonathan Swift's "Gulliver's Travels" was a disguised attack on the
government of the day? What's the REAL message in "The Emperor's New
Clothes"....

8->  Chill out Dude!

--
John McVey, Whyalla campus, Uni S.Australia
Electronic Engineering Student & Terror Tekkie G1 (at 19!)
9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au, or try
9051467f@wh.whyalla.unisa.edu.au
'An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.'  Don Marquis
'Those who believe in an afterlife won't be disappointed'  Me
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Obligatory disclaimer : UniSA hates my opinions...			     |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: marshall1198@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: what, me thee asshole?
Date: 9 Sep 92 12:39:06 -0500
Followup-To: alt.atheism
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Sep9.112031.1@fnalno.fnal.gov>, holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman) writes:
> In article <j1moody-080992232050@lafmacconsultant.lafortune.lab.nd.edu>, 
> j1moody@darwin.cc.nd.edu (Humpty Dumpty) whines:
> 
> [bad attempt at peotry deleted]
> 
> In his first post, he demonstrated he couldn't reason.

Maybe so, what was the posting number?

> In his second, that he couldn't empathize.

Again, the posting number?

> In his third, that couldn't write.

Do you expect prize-winning work here?

> 
> Ladies and gentlemen, we may well be looking at the single most useless person
> on the planet.

Most HEARTless of you!

> -- 
> Daniel B. Holzman                    | Eight Words the Witch's Rede Fufill:
> HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET                  | An It Harm None, Do What You Will
> HOLZMAN@FNALC.FNAL.GOV.INTERNET      |
>                                      | All Acts of Love and Pleasure are
> Love doesn't subtract,               | Her Rituals
>    it multiplies    - Heinlein       |
>                                      | Speak the Word.
> Disclaimer:  Fermilab's far too large to have an opinion, let alone mine.

Folks, I don't know what we're looking at here.


Evan Marshall
marshall1198@iscsvax.uni.edu
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: jl
Date: 5 Sep 92 22:35:29 GMT
Followup-To: alt.atheism
Organization: Apple

In article <1992Sep3.061244.25998@lugb.latrobe.edu.au>,
CS19243001D@LUST2.LATROBE.EDU.AU (SEZGIN, BILAL) wrote:
> we have more influence than the church.
>             john lennon

...and for a while Beatles were bigger than Jesus.

Kent
From: dpn2@po.CWRU.Edu (Damien P. Neil)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: End of the World...
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:18:40 GMT
Reply-To: dpn2@po.CWRU.Edu (Damien P. Neil)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, sieferme@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Sieferman) says:

>>Case Western Reserve University
>>Remember! Arguments should be FUN!
>
>Agreed!  

Definately! Let's start a flame war! :-)
-- 
+-------------+------------------+
| Damien Neil | dpn2@po.cwru.edu | 
+-------------+------------------+
From: bcash@crchh410.BNR.CA (Brian Cash)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Christianic Sacrifices
Date: 10 Sep 92 21:19:53 GMT
Reply-To: bcash@crchh410.BNR.CA (Brian Cash)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

In article <1992Sep10.160321.14452@ncsu.edu>, cmgrawbu@eos.ncsu.edu
(CHRISTOPHER M GRAWBURG) writes:
|>
|>
|>>>     But the murders reported were commited as a result of the
killers being 
|>>>Christians.  Ever heard of an atheist killing someone because they believed
|>>>in "god"?
|>
|>Ok, but I think everyone sees my point.
|>
|>You can't judge a group of people---especially a large group of people
|>b/c of a few bad examples.
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>Chris------The Fundamentalist
               
Also consider the idea that the reason murderers SAY they kill people is
not the same as the real reason they are violent.  Too many people blame
the extranious "causes" of crime (D&D(tm), rock and roll, religion, etc)
and don't focus on the true causes (drugs, being abused, mental illness).
Even the crusades and inquisitions had political impetus.
If you charged at me with a pencil-compass, I wouldn't blame geometry!


Brian /-|-\
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: Tim.ONeill@english.utas.edu.au (Tim O'Neill)
Subject: Re: End of the World...
Organization: University of Tasmania (Australia)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 00:29:30 GMT

We Aussies can beat that. There's a pack of lunatics based in Sydney who
are sure the Rapture is coming *next month*. Their publicity is greatly
mirthful, and worth reproducing in full:-
(I will try to reproduce their idiosyncratic layout and syntax)

																			THE FINAL WARNING OF GOD
																						JESUS IS COMING
															 IN (sic) 1 AM 29TH OCT. 1992

															IN THE AIR (Its The Rapture)
													Remember The days of Noah and Lot!
													Reject The 666 of (sic) computer bar code!
													Repent your sins to God!
													Ready The 7 years Great Tribulation (pardon?)
																		If you miss the Rapture!

So there you have it folks, only a couple of months to go. We already have
our 'End of the World Party' planned, and at 1 am we are going to have a
friend of ours go up onto the roof wearing a white robe to blow the last 
trump. What a silly little religion this middle eastern cult is.

Tim O'Neill
Tasmanian Devil
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: dabrowsk@parc.xerox.com (Jarek Dabrowski)
Subject: Re: Free will - the "Jarekian" heresy.
Organization: Xerox PARC
Date: 31 Aug 92 03:32:19 GMT

In <1992Aug29.151018.7211@ac.dal.ca> Sean Hartigan wrote about the
meaning of omniscience:

-Jarek:
>> God should be ABLE to know all future free actions, 
>> not HAVE to know all future free actions
-Sean:
> [Such a God] might not know, for example, that he is only a sub-God 
> of another bigger God, never having bothered to find this out.  
>
Imagine yourself as such a being. Wouldn't you, first of all, learn
about which things you have to know and what consequences would this
knowledge have? So God is still expected to know best. If you don't
think that He is a Stupid Encyclopeadian but rather a Wise one :-D.

Thus, I see no heresy but a modernized DESCRIPTION of omnipotent and
omnibenevolent God. It doesn't give up any of His 'old' virtues. This
idea is neither Christian or non-Christian; in my case it was applied
to Christianity but it could be used within other religions as well.


Best wishes,
             Jarek
======================================================
 .-----.            Dabrowski@Parc.xerox.com       
 `-> <-'       I WANT DAN BREDY BACK TO THE NET
Xref: sparky alt.atheism:16947 talk.religion.misc:16025