HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: Alomar and Range Factor (was Re: Lists: The Best Players In Baseball)
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 02:10:25 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.142208.5524@sni.ca> dave@snitor.sni.ca (Dave Till) writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.032738.23621@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:

>BTW:  has anyone else noticed that Alomar's stats resemble those of the
>young Joe Morgan?  Alomar isn't walking quite as much as Morgan yet, and
>doesn't have the power that the mature Morgan did, but they both have
>the same broad range of skills...

Which brings up a question I've been meaning to ask.  I'm too young to
remember them first hand, so how did Joe Morgan get those MVP awards?  
I can't believe that could happen.  Not that he didn't deserve them; of 
COURSE he did.  I can't believe that the mediots were smart enough to 
give MVPs to a guy who didn't hit a billion home runs and didn't lead the 
league in RBIs.  I mean, look how many it years it was before Rickey got
one - how did Morgan manage?

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | Is it too early to start making predictions for 1993?
niepornt@phoenix.    | Probably, but that never stopped me before.
   princeton.edu     | ALE: Baltimore ALW: Chicago NLE: Montreal NLW: Atlanta
Baltimore Orioles 93 | AL MVP: Cal Ripken  AL Cy Young: Mike Mussina
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,soc.women,soc.men
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Women Sports Reporters
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 00:00:56 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.182640.944@uoft02.utoledo.edu> dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>Hey!
>
>What's all the complaining about?
>
>I don't think any of us liberated souls would mind having a job where, when
>we are showering at the end of our day, we are FORCED to have members
>of the opposite sex come in on us. In fact, if our boss doesn't permit
>a male into a female's shower, or vice versa, he gets a heavy fine.
>
>Nothing wrong with that!
>
>Makes me wish I had worked on the sports section of the college newspaper so
>I could "interview" the women's basketball and volleyball teams right after a
>game.
>
>I know all of the people on here who are defending the right of female sports
>writers to go into male locker rooms, would not stoop to being hypocritical and
>saying a man should not be able to force his way into an area where
>women are nude.
>
>Or, would you?

Nice of you to join a thread in progress without bothering to read
any of the prior posts.  This point has been addressed.  Male sports
reporters have the same access to women athletes in the locker room
that women sports reporters do.  

Go argue against a strawman somewhere else.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
never shout movie in a crowded firestation
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: prb@chinet.chi.il.us (Paul Botts)
Subject: Re: Hall of Fame voting (read - Disgusted)
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 21:26:05 GMT

In article <38164@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> ACKER@oak.circa.ufl.edu writes:
>Okay folks.. press (N) now or forever hold your peace...
>
>Like joining the BBWAA (BaseBall Writers of America Association for those of
>you still reading).  And why do I want to join that association?
>BECAUSE THE CURRENT MEMBERS ARE IGNORANT, STUPID, GENERAL WASTES OF BRAIN
>TISSUE THAT HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE ABOUT THE SPORT OF BASEBALL.
>Well, most of them anyway.  How can 35% of the members of the BBWAA choose NOT
>to elect a man who won 318 games in his career, struck out more than 3500
>batters, threw a no-hitter and became the oldest player ever to throw a shutout?
>And most of this for perhaps the worst team of the 1970's?
>I'll tell you why.  Prejudice.  Ignorance.  A closed-minded view that thinks
>anyone who isn't named Babe or Cy should NOT be voted into the Hall of Fame
>anymore because it's too big already.  Remember -- these guys also voted Kirk
>Gibson as NL MVP in 1988.
>Phil Niekro deserves to be in the hall of fame.  Period.

Well yes, of course he does, and he will be before long. But you have
got to remember that the Hall of Fame as an objective recognition of
performance has long since proved itself to be a joke (as a museum it is
way cool and definitely worth the trip). This is the same screwy system
and boneheaded bunch of voters that has included mediocrities like Fred
Lindstrom and Bobby Doerr, while excluding clearly deserving people like
Ron Santo. The thing is a complete mess and not worth taking seriously.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: nissim@mary.fordham.edu (Leonard J. Nissim)
Subject: Cal Abrams afloat
Keywords:  Dodgers
Organization: Fordham University
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:40:00 GMT
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Distribution: usa
X-Posted-From: mary.fordham.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

I have just returned from a 7-day cruise on the M.S. Seaward (which is part
of the Norwegian Cruise Line) and had a very pleasant surprise:  

Cal Abrams was on board as part of their "Sports Afloat" program.  (For 
younger fans who don't read baseball history, he was an outfielder for the 
Brooklyn Dodgers from 1949 to 1952; although never a regular all season, 
he was part of some exciting pennant races in those years.  He later played
for other teams.) 

After a video of the 1955 World Series was shown, Cal gave a short talk with a 
question-and-answer period afterward.  I asked about the managers he had 
played for, and he gave his thoughts about Leo Durocher ["excellent manager, 
but bad character"] and  Burt Shotton ["like having no manger at all--he just 
sat in the back of the dugout and watched the games.  We players had to have 
our own signs."]. He wouldn't talk about Charlie Dressen--it was clear that he
still hates Dressen very much, but he won't say why.  Afterward, he gave out 
(and autographed) pictures of himself in his Brooklyn days.  

But even before the talk, I got the chance to speak with him.  Just before 
lunch one day, I was walking on Deck 4 towards the shore excurstion desk wearing
one of my Brooklyn Dodger T-shirts.  Cal's wife noticed it and called me over.
So I had a nice private talk about the Dodgers of that era, and, unfortunately,
the recent deaths of some of them (Sandy Amoros and Sal Maglie).  

I must relate one anecdote he told about salaries.  One year he reported to 
Vero Beach with an unsigned contract for the same amount that he had been 
paid the year before: the then minimum salary of $5000.  He very politely 
requested from Mr. Branch Rickey (sp?) a raise to $5500.  Branch replied:  
                      *"Have you unpacked yet?"*  
Cal signed for the $5000 minimum.  That was most certainly a different era. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leonard Nissim, notorious Dodger fanatic     (nissim@mary.fordham.edu)  
Disclaimer:  "I speak only for myself."   
World Championships:  Brooklyn-----1955   
                      Los Angeles--1959  1963  1965  1981  1988
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Hall of Fame voting (read - Disgusted)
Date: 7 Jan 93 20:28:33 GMT
Organization: Biochemistry

In article <1993Jan07.161713.24781@watson.ibm.com>
mjones@fenway.aix.kingston.ibm.com (Mike Jones) writes:
>acker@maple.circa.ufl.edu writes:
>: Phil Niekro deserves to be in the hall of fame.  Period.
>
>Yup. Very possibly more than Reggie does.


HEAR HEAR!!!!

(Sorry, but I really felt this topic deserves the bandwidth, even though all
I'm doing is seconding a pair of great statements)



Eric Roush			Deck us all with Boston Charlie
fierkelab@			Walla Walla Wash and Kalamazoo!
bchm.biochem.duke.edu	Nora's freezin' on the Trolley,
				Swaller Dollar Cauliflower Alla-ga-Roo!

				Walt Kelley
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sckelm@iastate.edu (Steven C Kelm)
Subject: Any news on Frankie Rodriguez?
Followup-To: sckelm@iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 16:59:30 GMT

Does anyone have news on Frankie Rodriguez, former number one pick of the 
Red Sox?  I vaguely remember that he had converted to pitching from his
position at SS, or was this only an experiment?  Where is he now and what
is his projected future with the Red Sox? (Yes, I realize that asking anyone 
to predict the moves of the Red Sox this year is difficult at best, but I'm
just interested in some opinions.)

Steve Kelm   sckelm@iastate.edu

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

I'm sorry, but there is no way I'll give Thomas the Nod over Will the-thrill
Clark.  At the end of their careers lets see who makes the HOF.  Will is the
best 1b in the game.

Don Boell
From: sfh@po.CWRU.Edu (Steven F. Hubbard)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Hall of Fame voting (read - Disgusted)
Date: 8 Jan 1993 20:36:19 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: sfh@po.CWRU.Edu (Steven F. Hubbard)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, rinehart@aramis.rutgers.edu (Mark J. Rinehart) says:

>
>There are plenty of Reggie fans around. If you ever saw him play - and
>it appears that you didn't - you'd know how exciting he made the game,
>especially when he was a Yankee......
>
>> BTW, I don't particularly care for Garvey either, but he was a better player 
>> than Jackson.  Post-season heroics have never particularly impressed me.
>
>What does impress you?  
>Thankfully, you don't vote for HOFers. If you did, I shutter to think
>of who WOULD be in the Hall right now. 

   Clearly Barry Bonds would be well on the way.

:-)

SfH
-- 
Steven F. Hubbard                ** "If people don't want to come to the 
Case Western Reserve University  **     ballpark, how are you gonna stop them? 
Department of Physics            **  
Cleveland, OH 44106              **                         -- Yogi
From: rand@muttley.ucsd.edu (Rand Steiger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Mets Sign Charlie .100'brien
Date: 9 Jan 1993 01:32:28 GMT
Organization: Department of Music, UC San Diego
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: muttley.ucsd.edu


The New York Mets continued their march into mediocrity by signing 
good field/no hit catcher Charlie O'Brien to a one year contract. Get
this! They gave him $500,000!

If only they could have grafted his throwing onto Macky Sassers batting.....

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: All-time All-Star trades (ATAS)
Date: 13 Jan 1993 03:34:50 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) says:

>In article <1iviu5INNpqn@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler) writes:
>>
>>     More in this continuing pre-season saga.  I'll let some of these sink
>>in, and do "reports" from spring training sites in a few days.
>
>i love these lists. keep it up, Doug.
>
>i can add one to the list, assuming it qualifies:
>
>San Diego & Toronto:
>To Jays: OF Joe Carter and 2B Roberto Alomar
>To Pads: 1B Fred McGriff and SS Tony Fernandez
>
>my friends in TO and i still refer to this as simply "the trade".
>i can't remember as big a trade in the last 10 years involving a straight
>swap of top players for top players (as opposed to the 1 star for a whole
>bunch of players, money, draft picks, etc. trade which is much more common now).

     Well, the trades I mentioned would be from across eras, too, but that
trade is probably going to be seen as just as big as Ernie Lombardi and
Del Crandall for Phil Niekro and Tony Perez would be.  I thik if you want to
talk trades that actually could have happened, it was reported several years
ago that a 3-way trade was in the works with Wade Boggs to the Mets,
Danny Tartabull to the Red Sox, and some pitcher to the Royals.  In fact,
there may have been another team at one point.
     How's this for filling team's needs, though, on all-time teams:
George Kell, Lance Parrish, and Lou Whittaker for Early Wynn, Al Rosen, and
Mel Harder. (Lajoie could play short, with WHittaker at 2nd.)
-- 
Doug Fowler: dxf12@po.CWRU.edu  : Me, age 4 & now: "Mommys and Daddys & other
    Ever wonder if, after Casey : relatives have to give lots of hugs & love
missed the 3rd strike in the poem: & support, 'cause Heaven is just a great
he ran to first and made it?     : big hug that lasts forever and ever!!!"
Organization: University Libraries - Library Automatio, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 11:39:11 -0500 
From: Richard Schall <rs0i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Orestes Destrade

Does anybody have the last 2 or 3 years stats
for Destrade? I haven't gotten my copies of the
ML Handbook or Player Profiles yet.


--------------------
!!!Richard Schall!!!
rs0i+@andrew.cmu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kettler@pierre.mit.edu (KETTLER, THOMAS R.)
Subject: First Game Memories (Was: Re: Hey Giants fans!)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: MIT Lab for Nuclear Science
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 18:14:00 GMT

In article <mzya3rs@Unify.Com>, .Unify.Com.wm@unify.uucp 
(William Morehouse writes...
> 
>The first baseball game I ever saw was in 1976 I believe,
>Giants against the Pirates in Candlestick when the 'Stick
>was still artificial turf.  Clark hit a game tying home run
>in the 10th.  He became an instant hero to this 9-year old.
>The game ended in the 12th with Gary Thommason (anybody
>remember him?) hitting a home run.  
> 
>With my first baseball game being so exciting, I was hooked for
>life.  Anybody else have a good story about their first ballgame?
> 
My first ballgame story is almost as good. It occured when my parents took me 
to a doubleheader at Crosley Field in 1968 when I was just a baby. They say the 
games were exciting but I was so overwhelmed by everything that I just did a 
"Hanoi Jane" Fonda. d::-)

					Sincerely yours,

					Thomas R. Kettler "Expos Fanatic"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: frisch1@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan Katz)
Subject: Baseball rules question
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:43:00 GMT

Here's a baseball rules question which I've never seen come up:
Say there's a runner on first, running with the pitch, and the batter 
hits a pitch foul and into the stands.  
Now, of course, the umpire takes out a new ball and throws it to the pitcher.
However, what if the runner is still midway between first and second (he was
running with the pitch, remember) when the pitcher gets the ball from the umpire?
Obviously the runner can't be thrown out, but at what point _can_ he be thrown
out?
For instance, is there any rule which says that the runner must come back and
touch the first base bag before the ball is in play?  This seems to be what
occurs.
-Jonathan Katz
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sterbenc@ivhs.mot.com (Joe Sterbenc)
Subject: Darrell Evans in Hall?
Organization: MOTOROLA 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:20:55 GMT
Followup-To: rec.sport.baseball

In article <8471@news.duke.edu>, fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu wrote:
> 
> What, you don't think Darrell Evans is a HOF player?  I'll agree that he's no
> Reggie Jackson, but he was a pretty darn good 3rd baseman.  Great power, great
> eye, average batting average, decent glove at a moderately difficult defensive
> position.  Who in his era, (early 70's through mid-80's at 3B), other than
> Schmidt, was a better 3B?  For how long?  Unfortunately, Darrell played in

	George Brett. By a country mile.
 
> I would argue that Darrell Evans has is more qualified for the HOF than Steve
> Garvey (to tie into this thread again.)  Maybe Darrell and Ron Santo should go
> in together when the time comes.

IMHO, Evans would have to be more qualified than Garvey to get in. Don't
think he's "more qualified" enough, though....
 
=====
Joe Sterbenc - Intelligent Vehicle Highway Systems - Motorola
All opinions are my own, but can be rented for reasonable rates
sterbenc@ivhs.mot.com
=====
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: red sox are laughable.
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 01:03:46 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.003448.11145@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>In article <1993Jan4.233544.24378@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>>In article <Jan.4.10.44.20.1993.12236@pilot.njin.net> gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite) writes:
>
>>>there are several people i know, who were disgruntled
>>> red sox fans the past 2 years, who have abandoned the red
>>> sox ship with their recent signings/trades/actions.  however,
>>> i just heard an interesting thing...
>
>>>the red sox are supposedly interested in signing jerome walton.
>
>>>which would give them more outfielders than the rest of the major
>>> leagues put together.  
>
>>at least they got rid of ellis burks... who signed with the other
>>color sox.
>
>At least?
>
>I mean, sure, this gets rid of one of their outfielders.
>
>But not the right one.  
>
>What kind of idiot would look at Ellis Burks and Billy Hatcher and say
>Billy Hatcher is the guy he wants?  Oh, of course.  Lou Gorman.
>
>On the other hand, what kind of idiot would look at Tom Brunansky and
>Andre Dawson and pick Andre Dawson?  Oh, of course.  Lou Gorman.
>
>What kind of idiot would look at Phil Plantier and Bob Zupcic and keep
>Bob Zupcic, while trading Phil Plantier for a middle reliever?  Oh, of
>course, Lou Gorman.
>
>I don't care; I'm an Orioles fan.  I just think it's amusing.

boy, i'm going to have to be sure to go back to using those
smileys strictly...

PLEASE don't accuse me of sympathizing with, or heaven forbid,
*agreeing* with, Gorman's moves this year.

thank you very much and sorry for any inconvenience :^) :^)

--
charles
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: vbdiep@iastate.edu (Vinh Diep)
Subject: The Best First-base Player in !993
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 01:27:11 GMT

	While many of you are arguing about Will Clark and Frank Thomas, and 
one is better than the other, one player that some of you seem to ignore will
surprise baseball fans in 1993. That All-Star first-baseman is DON MATTINGLY.
 	Any questions?
From: bspencer@cs.mcgill.ca (Brian SPENCER)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Expos news
Date: 9 Jan 93 17:06:59 GMT
Organization: SOCS - Mcgill University, Montreal, Canada

Here is a summarof some Expos news in the Saturday Montreal Gazette:

1) Apparently, Larry Walker is seeking $3M for next season. He said if
the Expos offered anything in this area, he'll not go to arbitration. In
my opinion, $3M per year in this market is a bargain. Delino Deshiel has
been quoted as saying that "What's good for the goose is good for the
gander" i.e. I want that too!

2) Felipe Alou has no plans for the new team captain position left
vacated by Tim Wallach. When asked this, Alou said that he wasn't even
aware that Wallach was the captain (hmmmmm)

3) Wil Cordero led Puerto Rican Winter League during the regular season
with a .304 average...a good sign. As many people know, I criticized
Cordero for his defense, not his offense (let's drop that)

4) Marquis Grissom was slapped a paternity suit last year and its to go
to court this Monday (just before he signs a big
contract...coincidence?)

5) Dennis Boyd pitched for Felipe Alou's team in the Puerto Rican
league. There was some mutterings of the Can returning to Montreal (God
help us) 

6) The Expos and Red Sox are having trouble getting in touch with Ivan
Colderon. No-one from either team has told him personally that he's been
traded. His agent knows, but apparently he's disappeared. He promised to
play winter ball this year, but didn't because he's feuding with the
owner of the team in the DR that hold's his rights. Anyway, the last
time he disappeared like this, last winter, he showed up to training
camp so out of shape that he hurt his elbow shooting a commercial.

That's it from Montreal, where it's -22 Celcius and under clear skies.

Brian Spencer (bspencer@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca)
From: gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cards. Are there collectors outthere?
Keywords: cards
Date: 7 Jan 93 01:02:38 GMT
Organization: Somewhere in Hoboken

the group for cards is rec.collecting.cards

it was supposed to be in effect today.  before today, it was in
 part of rec.collecting

check in there for interested people.

- bob gaj
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sckelm@iastate.edu (Steven C Kelm)
Subject: Worrell arm problems
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:58:59 GMT

Todd Worrell is reported as experiencing stiffness which Dodger officials are
claiming is only tendonitis.  Apparently, the stiffness is near the bicep in
the elbow region.  He will be examined by Dr. Frank Jobe this week.  I guess
signing that three-year guaranteed contract was a little more than his arm
could take. :)

Steve Kelm   sckelm@iastate.edu


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball