From: gmartin@b-cpu.UUCP (George Martin)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.misc
Subject: More answers on Holocaust and Leuchter Report
Date: 9 Apr 92 15:00:43 GMT
Organization: Banished CPU, +1(503) 232-6566

My answers will be between the "?????????????".
 
 
From: M20614@mwvm.mitre.org (Hugh Pritchard)
Newsgroups:
alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship,alt.discrimination,soc.history,sci.resear
ch,alt.activism
Subject: Re: AGAIN, Fred Leuchter's Findings on the FAKE "Gas Chambers"
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1992 18:24:56 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
 
Save your cavils, Ralph.  Conspiracy among a few people is always
possible, but conspiracy among TENS, even HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of people
today, over events 50 years ago?  Hardly.  The Israeli theocracy may
have state secrets, as would any country, but a world-wide conspiracy to
distort facts?  Hardly.  Jewish culture values education and truth,
among other virtues.  And how about lapsed Jews, or people whose mothers
aren't Jewish (making those people technically non-Jews)?  Are they in
on this conspiracy, too?
 
I've seen estimates that Hitler and the Nazis were responsible, directly
and indirectly, for the deaths of fifty (50) million people of all
kinds.  And you want to dispute the deaths of a paltry 6 million?  It
happened; forget it.  Water under the bridge.
 
**  Hugh Pritchard,  hapritch@mitre.org,  703/883-6616
 
 
 
???????????????????????????????????????????????????
The conspiracy doesn't have to be amoung "HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS", all it
needs is control of the media and compliance of the governments
involved.  Just the existence of laws that make it a crime to say
anything against the standard story is proof of a conspiracy. Why make
it against the law to discuss something that didn't happen unless it
realy did?  Don't give me the old "Hate literature" excuse. Nearly
anything can be said about other races or prior history  without being
thrown in jail.  Why can almost anything under the sun be allowed except
this?
????????????????????????????????????????????????????
 
 
 
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Newsgroups:
alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship,alt.discrimination,soc.history,alt.activi
sm,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast,misc.headlines Subject: Re:
AGAIN, Fred Leuchter's Findings on the FAKE (NO, REAL) "Gas Chambers"
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1992 17:23:46 GMT
<1992Apr2.181657.15007@cs.brown.edu> <1992Apr5.051202.15631@anasaz>
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
 
In article <1992Apr5.051202.15631@anasaz# briand@anasaz (Brian Douglass)
writes:
#In article <1992Apr2.181657.15007@cs.brown.edu# dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny
Keren) writes:
##
##I don't know how longer this idioticity is going to be carried on.
##
##----------------------------------------------------------------------
##The "Leuchter report" is BULLSHIT, and bullshit remains bullshit even
##if posted a hundred times.
##---------------------------------------------------------------------
#
#Worse than that, it's just bad science.
#
##
##As stated here, IT TAKES MUCH LONGER EXPOSURE TO HCN (which Zyklon-B
##releases) to kill lice than to kill people. For the SAME concentration
##of HCN people die in LESS THAN 5 MINUTES, while to kill lice and
##clothes moths, bugs etc takes MANY HOURS (up to a day).
#
#Specifically, HCN in a quantity of 200-500 parts per million is fatal
#within 30 minutes, killing by a means of inhibiting cellular oxidation
#(blood can't pick up oxygen) causing the victim to essentially
sufficate
#to death.
 
True indeed. However, this is the *minimal* concentration causing death,
therefore taking 30 minutes. The same concentration as used for
delousing
(5-15 grams per meter cube) kills in less than 5 minutes.
 
Perhaps someone out there knows the dose used in execution gas chambers
in the US - certainly death is much swifter than 30 minutes.
 
 
??????????????????????????????????????????????????
That amount would not mean anything.  It is given over carefully
controlled conditions, with perfect ventilation.  Not just "some
crystals dumped in a slot into a room with no means of distributing the
gas.  The chambers were supposed to be packed to capacity with no room
to move.  The gas would have to be allowed to work for a long time to
insure that everyone was killed.
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????
 
 
A simple calculation shows that the homicidal gas
chambers were exposed to HCN for a period of time approximately 50
times shorter than the delousing chambers, which explains why there are
less traces of cyanic compounds (together with the fact that they were
blown up and exposed to weather conditions, including acid rain, which
dissolves the cyanides. This is clearly stated in the Polish institute's
report. Natrually, B-CPU blames the Polish experts for lying becuase
they were "kissing up to the Zionists", and "have to get loans to
rebuild
their country and the Zionists control international banking").
 
???????????????????????????????????????????????????
You better go back to your chemistry books.  The compound that was
tested for was Ferro-ferric-cyanide compound.  This is a very stable
compound which would not be washed away with acid rain or virtually
anything else short of chiseling the outer layer of the rock away.
By the way, the Leuchter and Polish reports have just be substantiated
by a leading Austrian engineer, Walter Luftl.  He is a court recognized
expert engineer and heads a large engineering firm in Vienna.
He also stated the crematories could not have handled the number of
victims. Luftl also characterizes the story of Jews being gassed with
diesel engine exaust as a "sheer impossibilty," and mentions the
"discrepancies in witness testimonies" which "exist and have not been
explained."
His report set off a furor in Austria. A official feared it could harm
the country's image abroad.  He resigned as president of the engineers
association.  He, in a statement, condemned the Nazi atrocities, but
once again cited the absence of supporting forensic evidence.
(Suddeutsche Zeitung, Munich. March 13 and 14-15: AFB and AP dispatches
from Vienna.)
Another courageous person who paid a price to dare go against the
"standard holocaust story."
The Leuchter report is being upheld by another expert in Germany.  I
will report on this after it is released.
Of course I will get the standard replies concerning the degrees of the
persons involved.  And how they could not possibly know anything unless
they had a couple MA's, BA's, MD's, DDS's, IP's (important person) after
their names.  I didn't rant and rave about the credentials of Jean-
Claude Pressac when his book was mentioned.  He is just a pharmacist. I
can imagine how Leuchter would be treated if that was his only
credentials.  You ridicule him enough as it is.
 
One very important point, Lechter has insisted that a internationally
recognized team of experts go to Auschwitz and the nearby camps that he
tested and settle once and for all whether he is correct.  Of course
they will not do this.  Because he is right.  The big lie would be
exposed.
 
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
 
 
Danny Keren.
 
 
 
 
 
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Newsgroups:
alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship,alt.discrimination,soc.history,alt.activi
sm,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines Subject: Re:
IHR Scores Stunning Victory in $11 Million Mermelstein Trial!
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:52:07 GMT
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
 
In article <gate.e30TiB1w164w@b-cpu.UUCP# ralphw@b-cpu.UUCP (Ralph
Winston) writes:
 
Hey, Ralphie, read this and WEEP, baby, WEEP!
 
***********************************************************************
*
The Honorable Thomas T. Johnson, on October 9, 1981, took judicial
notice as follows:
 
  "Under Evidence Code Section 452(h), this court does take judicial
  notice of the fact that Jews were gassed to death at the Auschwitz
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  Concentration Camp in Poland during the summer of 1944" and "It just
simply
  is a fact that falls within the definition of Evidence Code Section
452(h).
  It is not reasonably subject to dispute.  And it is capable of
immediate
  and accurate determination by resort to sources of reasonably
indisputable
  accuracy.  It is simply a fact."
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
***********************************************************************
 
 
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Notice that the judge did not hear any evidence to support he
revisionists view.  He just "decided" that it was fact.  I can't
understand why we go to all the trouble by having juries and trials when
judges can decide when something is true or not true just because he
believes it. It would certainly save the taxpayers a lot of money. Just
send a judge information on the suspect and he can decide in a few
minutes if he is guilty and send him off to jail if so.  Sounds like the
inquisition.
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
 
 
 
The IHR lost, and they paid 90,000$ to the person who took them to
court.
 
So what is this "stunning victory" bullshit? Look:
 
#     On Thursday afternoon, Sept. 19, Mermelstein and his attorneys
#gave up what was left of their lawsuit, and voluntarily withdrew
#complaints of libel, conspiracy to inflict emotional distress and
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
#intentional infliction of emotional distress.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
Meaning - NOTHING to do with the existance of gas chambers, which was
proved in a different trial, in which some Nazi liars and frauds
were convicted.
 
??????????????????????????????????????????????????
WHAT trial, pray tell, was that?  The gas chambers have never been
proved to exist.
??????????????????????????????????????????????????
 
Ever wonder why "Winston" and "Faust" *never* publish the name of the
person or institute offering the "50,000$ reward for proving gassing
took place"?. Simple enough: nobody is making that offer.
 
??????????????????????????????????????????????
If it is so easy, just do one of the things and see what happens.
??????????????????????????????????????????????
 
-Danny Keren.
 
 
 
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Newsgroups:
alt.activism,alt.censorship,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: More answers on Holocaust (G. Martin)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 20:25:34 GMT
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
 
Please note "G. Martin's" logic: when the "Leuchter report" is exposed
as a stupid hoax, and the team of Polish experts debunks it and
declares it means nothing (Appendix I), what does "Martin" write?
 
----------------------------------------------------------
In article <RaFLiB1w164w@b-cpu.UUCP# gmartin@b-cpu.UUCP (George Martin)
writes:
 
???????????????????????????????????????????????
Poland needs money to rebuild its country.  The Zionists have control
of much of the international banks.  You can fill in the blanks.
???????????????????????????????????????????????
----------------------------------------------------------
 
Atleast, "Martin" could try to prove the above fact (Zionists control
of international banking) and explain why Israel has to run and beg
for loan guarantees if that is the case? But don't expect him to
prove *anything* - just continue with the old Nazi propaganda
of how the Jews control everything, while replacing "Jews" with
"Zionists" (of course sometimes they forget).
 
"Martin" has a great sense of humor, we all know. He once wrote
that the Nazis maybe dropped bannana peels into the gas chambers
so all the Jews would slip and kill themselves. What a great guy.
 
???????????????????????????????????????????????
I said the bannana peels were put in the "Diesel" extermination
chambers.  But you were close enough.
????????????????????????????????????????????????
 
Maybe because he has such a great sense of humor, "Martin" includes
in his post segments from Pressac's "Technique and Operation
of the gas chambers in Auscuwitz-Birenau". The book is a detailed
study of the Auschwitz extermination camp, and exposes the
revisionist's hoaxes.
 
 
*********************************************************************
Appendix I: opinions of Polish experts on the "Leuchter report"
            and the possibility of cyanic traces found in the
            homicidal gas chamber number II in Auschwitz.
            I am quoting directly from the B-CPU post regarding this
            matter. I quote only the relevant parts.
[......]
 
  Stronger acids, such as sulfuric acids, easily dissolve the cyanides.
The compounds of cyanide ions with heavy metals are longer lasting.
This includes the already mentioned Prussian blue, although this will
also slowly dissolve in an acidic environment.
 
  Therefore, one can hardly assume that traces of cyanic compounds
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
could still be detected in construction materials (plaster, brick)
after 45 years, after being subjected to the weather and the elements
(rain, acid oxides, especially sulfuric and nitrogen oxides).  More
reliable would be the analysis of wall plaster [samples] from closed
rooms which were not subject to weather and the elements (including
acid rain).
--------------------------------------------------------------------
 
[.......]
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????
See my answer to Pressac earlier.
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????
 
 
Specialist for Technical Testing
Engineer Jerzy Labedz
 
Director of Toxicology
Dr. Wojciech Gubala
 
Senior Assistant
Beata Trzcinska, M.S.
 
[.......]
 
     In a letter dated June 7, 1991, Dr. Markiewicz responded:
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
 
[.......]
 
hydrogen cyanide."  In connection with the question posed in that
letter I qualified the chances of detecting hydrogen cyanide in such
samples as nearly none.  As a chemist engaged in forensic chemical
           ^^^^^^^^^^^
toxicology for 45 years, I am familiar with the properties of this
volatile substance.  Hence my reply.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
*********************************************************************
 
????????????????????????????????????????????
Again, it was not hydrogen cyanide that was being detected.
?????????????????????????????????????????????
 
 
-Danny Keren.
 
 
 
 
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Newsgroups:
misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast,soc.misc,alt.re
visionism
Subject: Don't Sleep too Comfortably (was: IHR Scores Stunning Victory
...)
Date: 7 Apr 92 16:32:14 GMT
<1992Apr7.162319.16644@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Summit NJ
 
alexander.kostomaroff writes:
>Ralph Winston of "Banished CPU" ends his verbose diatribe
>       "IHR Scores Stunning Victory in $11 Million Mermelstein Trial!"
>with a quote from Nietzsche:
>       "What does not destroy me, makes me stronger".
>
>How appropriate, Ralph! Good old Adolf H. used to repeat the same line
>quite often.
>
>Tell me with whom you share your one-liners and I tell you where are
>you from.
>
>Bye-bye, Parteigenosse Winston! Sieg Heil!
 
For all of you anti-Semities and/or Israel bashers reading this who
are gloating "Boy, those damn Jews are sure getting theirs now" (as if
we are, but that's another story), just remember, the neo-Nazis do
not discriminate.  Today their target are the Jews; tomorrow, it's
your non-white/non-Protestant ethnic/religious group.
 
 
????????????????????????????????????????????????
Stan, Stan, you are sounding a little paranoid with those last remarks.
I assure you, I am not a Jew hater.  You are trying to accuse me of
other agendas that are completely off the wall.
???????????????????????????????????????????????
 
Stan Krieger                     All opinions, advice, or suggestions,
even
AT&T UNIX System Laboratories    if related to my employment, are my
own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
 
 
 
From: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups:
misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast,soc.misc,alt.re
visionism
Subject: Re: NEVER FORGET (the docudrama smear of IHR) / Witness for the
Defense!
Date: 7 Apr 92 19:49:12 GMT
Reply-To: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago, Dept of Molecular Genetics
 
In article <gate.V70TiB1w164w@b-cpu.UUCP>, ralphw@b-cpu.UUCP (Ralph
Winston) writes:
 
The account of the Mermelstein trial given by the IHR is imply false.
Please look at the official court documents below.
Also notice the apology that they were forced to give, for saying that
no Jews were gassed at Aushwitz.  They have made the same claim on the
network.  I am hereby asking them to cease from making the claim, or
to follow up each claim with a copy of the apology.
 
>
>In _The Journal of Historical Review_ Vol. 11, #2 (Summer 1991):
>
>
>       REVIEWS:  "A Forgettable, But Survivable, Hatchet Job on IHR"
>
>              (Or, "Never Forget -- Witness for the Defense")
>
>
>NEVER FORGET.  Produced by Robert Radnitz.  Directed by Joseph Sargent.
>Turner Pictures, Inc. 1991.  2 hours.
>
>Institute for Historical Review
>P.O. Box 1306
>Torrance, California 90505
>
*****  A  *****  A  *****  A  *****  A  *****  A  *****  A  *****  A
*****
 
 
                 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
                       FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES
 
MEL MERMELSTEIN.                )    No. C 356 542
         Plaintiff,             )
vs.                             )    JUDGMENT
                                )
INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL        )
REVIEW, et al.                  )
         Defendants.            )
 
     Pursuant to the Stipulation for Entry of Judgment executed on July
22,
1985, the Court renders the following judgment:
 
    1.  Defendants LIBERTY LOBBY, WILLIS CARTO, ELISABETH CARTO, LEGION
        FOR
SURVIVAL OF FREEDOM, INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL REVIEW, and NOONTIDE
PRESS,
and each of them, are jointly and severally liable to plaintiff MEL
MERMELSTEIN for the sum of One Hundred Fifty Thousand Dollars
($150,000.00),
reduced to the sum of Ninety Thousand Dollars ($90,000.00) payable as
follows:
       (a) Fifty Thousand Dollars ($50,000.00) on August 1, 1985, and
delivered to the law offices of ALLRED, MAROKO, GOLDBERG & RIBAKOFF;
       (b)  Twenty Thousand Dollars ($20,000.00) on September 1, 1985;
       (c)  Twenty Thousand Dollars ($20,000.00) on October 1, 1985.
    2.  Should any of the installments not be made by the defendants
        against
whom judgment herein is entered within the time period provided,
plaintiff,
at his sole option and discretion, shall have the following options:
       (a) To rescind the Stipulation for Entry of Judgment and proceed
           to trial and any payments received by plaintiff to that date
           from defendants shall not be returned to said defendants; or
       (b) Plaintiff may request entry of Judgment against each of said
defendants, jointly or severally, in the sum of One Hundred Fifty
Thousand Dollars ($150,000.00).
    3.  Defendants LIBERTY LOBBY, WILLIS CARTO, ELISABETH CARTO, LEGION
        FOR
SURVIVAL OF FREEDOM, INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL REVIEW, and NOONTIDE
PRESS,
shall issue and execute, by a duly authorized representative, a Letter
of Apology to Mel Mermelstein, as follows:
  "Each of the answering defendants do hereby officially and formally
  apologize to Mr. Mel Mermelstein, a survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau and
  Buchenwald, and all other survivors of Auschwitz for the pain, anguish
  and suffering he and all other Auschwitz survivors have sustained
  relating to the $50,000 reward offer for proof that "Jews were gassed
  in gas chambers at Auschwitz".
 
    DATED: AUG 5, 1985
 
                                          ROBERT A. WENKE, JUDGE
                                          SUPERIOR COURT
 
APPROVED AS TO FORM AND CONTENT:
 
G. G. BAUMEN
Attorney for Defendants
INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL REVIEW,
LEGION FOR SURVIVAL OF FREEDOM,
ELISABETH CARTO and NOONTIDE PRESS
 
VON ESCH & ASSOCIATES
Attorneys for Defendants
LIBERTY LOBBY and WILLIS CARTO
 
*****  B  *****  B  *****  B  *****  B  *****  B  *****  B  *****  B
 
 
                              STATEMENT OF RECORD
                                    AND
                    LETTER OF APOLOGY TO MEL MERMELSTEIN
 
     "WHEREAS, the Legion for Survival of Freedom, and the Institute for
Historical Review, sent by letter dated November 20, 1980, directly to
Mel Mermelstein, a survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau and Buchenwald, an
exclusive reward offer in a letter marked "'personal'" dated November
20, 1980, offering Mr. Mermelstein a $50,000 exclusive reward for
"'proof that Jews were gassed in gas chambers at Auschwitz'" "and
further stating that if Mr.  Mermelstein did not respond to the reward
offer "'very soon"', "the Institute for Historical Review would '
publicize that fact to the mass media' ..."
     "WHEREAS, Mr. Mermelstein formally applied for said $50,000 reward
on December 18, 1980; and "WHEREAS, Mr. Mermelstein now contends that
the Institute for Historical Review knew, or should have known, from Mr.
Mermelstein's letter to the editor of the Jerusalem Post dated Autust
17, 1980, that Mr.  Mermelstein contended he was a survivor of
Auschwitz-Birkenau and Buchenwald; knew, or should have known, that Mr.
Mermelstein contended that his mother and two sisters were gassed to
death at Auschwitz; and knew, or should have known, of his contention
that at dawn on May 22, 1944, he observed his mother and two sisters,
among other women and childred, being lured and driven into the gas
chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau, which he later discovered to be Gas
Chamber No. 5; and
     "WHEREAS, on October 9, 1981, the parties in dispute in the
litigation filed cross-motions for summary judgment resulting in the
court, per the Honorable Thomas T. Johnson, taking judicial notice as
follows:
  "'Under Evidence Code Section 452(h), this court does take judicial
  notice of the fact that Jews were gassed to death at the Auschwitz
  Concentration Camp in Poland during the summer of 1944'" and "'It just
  simply is a fact that falls within the definition of Evidence Code
  Section 452(h).  It is not reasonably subject to dispute.  And it is
  capable of immediate and accurate determination by resort to sources
  of reasonably indisputable accuracy.  It is simply a fact.'"
     "WHEREAS, Mr. Mermelstein and other survivors of Auschwitz contend
that they suffered severe emotional distress resulting from said reward
offer and subsequent conduct of the Institute of Historical Review; and
     "WHEREAS, the Institute for Historical Review and Legion for
Survival
of Freedom now contend that in offering such reward there was no intent
to offend, embarrass or cause emotional strain to anyone, including Mr.
Mermelstein, a survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau and Buchenwald
Concentration Camps of World War II, and a person who lost his father,
mother and twosisters who also were inmates of Auschwitz;
     "WHEREAS, the Institute for Historical Review and Legion for
Survival of Freedom should have been aware that the reward offer would
cause Mr.  Mermelstein and other survivors of Auschwitz to suffer severe
emotional distress which the Institute for Historical Review and Legion
for Survival of Freedom, now recognize is regretable and abusive to
survivors of Auschwitz.
 
                    LETTER OF APOLOGY TO MEL MERMELSTEIN
 
  "Each of the answering defendants do hereby officially and formally
apologize to Mr. Mel Mermelstein, a survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau and
Buchenwald, and all other survivors of Auschwitz for the pain, anguish
and suffering he and all other Auschwitz survivors have sustained
relating to the $50,000 reward offer for proof that "Jews were gassed in
gas chambers at Auschwitz".
 
DATED: 7/24/85             G. G. Baumen
                           Attorney for Defendants
                           Legion For Survival of Freedom,
                           Institute for Historical Review,
                           Noontide Press, and Elisabeth Carto
 
DATED: 7/24/85             MARK F. VON ESCH
                           Attorneys for Defendants
                           Liberty Lobby and Willis Carto
 
?????????????????????????????????????????????????
I think you should read the statement more carefully.  I can tell you
are not a lawyer. The IHR did not acknowledge that "Jews were gassed in
gas chambers in Auschwitz." That is the title of the complaint against
the IHR.  Not what the IHR is acknowledging.  What else could you expect
them to do when the judge would not hear any evidence against what he
"believed?"
??????????????????????????????????????????????????
 
*****  C  *****  C  *****  C  *****  C  *****  C  *****  C  *****  C
*****
 
???????????????????????????????????????????????
Before I forget,  many days ago someone said that the Einsatzgruppen
reports mentioned the use of Zyklon-b to gas people.  I don't know what
Einsatzgruppen reports that person was reading, but nothing, I repeat,
nothing, is ever mentioned about gassing people anywhere in those
reports.
?????????????????????????????????????????????
 
Enough for now.
 
George Martin

-.-
Banished CPU supports FREEDOM OF SPEECH.  Currently no fees.
CALL:  +1(503) 232-6566 (8N1, v.32/42/bis) or +1(503) 232-5783 (8N1)
UUCP:  Path (..twiki!b-cpu) "ELIMINATED" BY ZIONIST THOUGHT POLICE!!!
Users of Banished CPU are solely responsible for their actions.
Xref: sparky alt.activism:7348 alt.conspiracy:6147 talk.politics.misc:17292