From: fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: The story of the Scottish flag
Date: 28 Dec 1992 05:35:56 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: weber.ucsd.edu

In article <1992Dec27.223453.6892@newstand.syr.edu> crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea) writes:
>In article <1harg7INNjua@network.ucsd.edu> fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec23.164653.20895@newstand.syr.edu> crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea) writes:
>>>In article <1h7v9uINNq2t@network.ucsd.edu> fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) writes:
>>>
>>Irish prisoners were used as indentured servants in various West
>>Indian colonies in the 17th century (most certainly including
>>Montserrat). Indeed, there are stories of Gaelic being spoken in the
>>West Indies through the late 18th century.
>>
>>Indentured servants, however, were not slaves. Unless, perhaps, you
>>are equating slavery and contractual service.
>>
>
>You're right; African slaves cost three time as much as Irish servants.
>
>On paper, you are correct; in practice, you are wrong. There were too many 
>similarities between white "service" and black slavery to see much diference.
>Both suffered an average of over 50% mortality in coffin ships during the
>crossing, usually due to cramping, unsanitary conditions, rotten food,
>slimy water, etc. Both lived in unheated shacks, with poor rations, rags,
>and restrictions that made them chattel property (this was true for BOTH 
>servants and slaves). Finally, neither were expexted to actually live in
>the New World for longer than 3 years without succumbing to forced labor,
>exposure, disease, whipings, etc.

It needs to be noted here that indentures were in vogue for only a
few decades, while African slavery lasted for over two centuries. In
no way, even given horrible conditions of life and work, could
indentured servants be considered chattel property.



>
>The only difference was price. Slaves from Africa cost 60 lbs. to puchase
>in America, because the Africans doing the hunting had to be paid for their     work; white servants were criminals who took the choice between a quick 

By no means all white indentured servants were criminals, some were
people down on their luck who were given the choice of signing an
indenture or going to the workhouse.


>death on the gallows or a slow one in the Jamaican canefields. They only

Indentured service was of little significance in the colonisation of
Jamaica. The problem of runaways was greater in that colony, since
in the late 17th century an alternative to working on the
plantations was available on the island. That alternative, service
on a privateer, seems to have been quite popular.


>cost 20 lbs because they were criminals (ie, no overhead). While you may
         ^^^
           \ this is pounds weight, not pounds sterling

>read great things about how America was founded by these freed indentured
>servants, the reality shown by mortality rates was quite different. 

But once they ran away, they were rather hard to find. And a lot of
them skipped on their contracts. It has to be noted that slavery was
to last longer than contract servitude, and was to become far more
prevalent and operate on a far larger scale. You need to explain
why, if slaves were more expensive, there were far more of them.

>
>By the way, those "contracts" for indenture could be extended at the masters'
>discretion, provided he or his friends on the county assize felt the need
>to do so. So there were relatively few servants being freed with land
>for their service in the 17th century.
>
This is true (a point which, alas, libertarians are slow to
appreciate).

Indentured servitude, by the way, was reintroduced in the mid-19th
slavery. Most of the bonded labourers came from the Indian
subcontinent, though some were brought from Germany and from
Madeira, and some were recruited in China.  

-- 
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Dawn over the dark sea brings on the sun;                      
She leans across the hilltop: see, the light!
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic