HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vixie@pa.dec.com (Paul A Vixie)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: announcing the alt.cabal
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:48:08
Organization: DEC Network Systems Lab
Distribution: alt
	<1993Jan25.055614.5000@spcvxb.spc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cognition.pa.dec.com
In-reply-to: terry@spcvxb.spc.edu's message of 25 Jan 93 10:56:14 GMT

[terry]
> [...] Suppose I'm out here on the fringes and want the alt.cabal to manage
> my collection of alt groups. Will there be a FTP site or email server where
> I can acquire a checkgroups at whatever intervals I desire so I can keep my
> weird non-INN news software happy?

Since a lot of people have expressed "passive" interest in this service, I 
will arrange public summaries of alt.cabal activities and encapsulated
"checkgroups" messages.  It isn't going to be a secret; I just want to make
sure that nothing is ever accidentally *executed* on some non-cabal computer;
I don't want to create or delete alt groups on any computers other than those
whose sysadmins have explicitly subscribed to the service.

> What will the policy be on the "rmgroup wars" for things like alt.graphics?
> For that matter, what about the alt.uu mess? Will there be a mechanism to 
> accept sysadmin imput?

By and large, the people who have responded to my original posting by sending
mail to alt.cabal@vix.com are the kind who basically don't care about rmgroup
wars and don't have an opinion about most "alt" things other than to share my
personal opinion that alt is a wretched sewer that perpetually hovers on the
cusp of worthlessness.  Certainly, if someone has an opinion they'll share it,
and if it's reasonable than it will be done that way.  But there aren't going
to be any arguments about what is or isn't reasonable -- if someone doesn't
like the way something got done, they can unsubscribe or compete or seethe;
it's all the same to the remaining members.

The alt.cabal is going to be a benign dictatorship with respect to policy,
and an authentic democracy with respect to mechanism and implementation.

[jamie]
>     But Paul, what is to stop the newgroupies from forging
> alt.cabal control messages?  They have been forging articles
> from Jef Poskanzar for months...
> [...]
>     No, I'm not volunteering to write the software.  The last
> time I tried to do that... oh well, that's another story.

I can't imagine anyone not on the cabal caring about what cabal members do;
if forgeries occur they will be treated as net.terrorism and some kind of
technical steps (public key encryption, for example) will be taken.
--
Paul Vixie, DEC Network Systems Lab	
Palo Alto, California, USA         	"Don't be a rebel, or a conformist;
<vixie@pa.dec.com> decwrl!vixie		they're the same thing, anyway.  Find
<paul@vix.com>     vixie!paul		your own path, and stay on it."  -me
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: moroney@world.std.com (Michael Moroney)
Subject: Re: newgroup alt.lang.sas
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:58:55 GMT

twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:

>Well, it looks like so much for the "!taco!taco!" trick.  Our friend
>apparently reads alt.config:

No, as I mentioned in my last post, forgeries have shown up with only a
single taco.  The double order is the exception, not the rule.

>Eventually they'll discover ways around taco entirely.  Ah, well.
>More battle wounds.

Well, he hasn't done so for a year.  He has been baiting the people in
rec.org.mensa for about a year now, he is well known there.

-Mike
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.sport.darts,alt.beer,rec.sport.misc
From: fulton@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Ben Fulton)
Subject: How about alt.pool or alt.billiards?
Followup-To: alt.config
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:39:39 GMT

Is there any interest?  There was a short-lived proposal a while ago
for rec.sport.billiards.  The charter looked like this:

>rec.sport.billiards  Discussions on all types of games of billiards

>Proposed charter: rec.sport.billiards is a group for discussing all
>types of games of billiards. Here `billiards' is in its European meaning
>`a cue sport'. So this group is for discussing snooker, pool, English
>billiards, three cushion billiards, one cushion billiards, Russian
>pyramids, Finnish Carolina and yes! even the funny-type-of-billiard-game-
>they-play-in-Italy. (Flames by email, please!)

So how 'bout it?  Followups to alt.config.

-- 
ben
fulton@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Bloomington, IN)
"Verbing weirds language" - Calvin
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: alt.religion.mormon? anyone?
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 05:07:02 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.181104.63182@cc.usu.edu> slhw4@cc.usu.edu (Jason Hunsaker) writes:

>Is there any opposition to creating alt.religion.mormon for
>general, unmoderated discussions about things Mormon?

As best I recall, there was a recent movement for soc.religion.mormon.

Didn't it fail?

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: alt reorg
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 07:40:08 GMT


this is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in a while.
I certainly hope nobody is taking it seriously.

josh

Newsgroups: alt.config
From: LIPSCOJA@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Andy Lipscomb)
Subject: Re: New alt group: alt.divorce
Organization: Vanderbilt University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 07:55:34 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

> I would like to propose a new group for the discussion of any
> issues related to divorce.
> 
> Why?
> 
> 1. No newsgroups currently deal directly with this topic.
> 2. About 50% of all people married will wind up going through it.
> 3. Divorce is one of the most traumatic situations a person
>    can experience.
> 4. Persons in the process of divorce can benefit greatly from
>    contact with those who are also going through it or have already
>    experienced it. This includes dealing with the legal aspects,
>    emotional aspects, issues like alimony and finance, etc.

Given (4), I think it should be called alt.support.divorce.
I have no opinion on whether it should exist or not.

  |   Andy Lipscomb
--+-- lipscoja@(ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu,vuctrvax.bitnet)
  |   Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian.
  |   disclaimer.standard
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Proposal for group alt.fan.ursula-le-guin
Keywords: group creation alt
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 07:33:02 GMT

Alt.fan is a bad choice.

The second hyphen seems unnecessary, since I never see "LeGuin" as two
words on any of her books.

Mailing lists are your friends.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: Proposal for alt.games.super-nes
From: tp@mccall.com (Terry Poot)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 08:50:16 CST
Reply-To: tp@mccall.com (Terry Poot)
Distribution: na
Organization: The McCall Pattern Co., Manhattan, KS, USA
Nntp-Posting-User: tp


In article <C1J815.121@ms.uky.edu>, kherron@ms.uky.edu (Kenneth Herron) writes:
>rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
>
>>   Due to the growing traffic on rec.games.video I suggest the formation
>>of alt.games.super-nes, a Super Nintendo only newsgroup which would deal with
>>buy and sell, cheats, anecdotes, game reviews, etc...basically anything
>>having to do in any way with the Super NES.
>
>Rec.games.video is seen by more people than see any alt.games group.
>Extrapolating from this, some people interested in SNES won't have access
>to the alt group, and will no doubt keep using the rec group.  All you'll
>accomplish is to have independent discussions going on in both groups,
>which is confusing at least.
>
>I recommend that if rec.games.video needs splitting you run a proper
>discussion/vote and keep the new groups within rec.games.

Heartily agreed. And if you are going to split it, I'd suggest the first split
should be to creae a .marketplace group, since easily half the traffic is
buy/sell/trade stuff. If you got that out, I'm not sure there'd be enough
traffic that you'd need to split by game system. That could be the next step, if
needed.
--
Terry Poot <tp@mccall.com>                   The McCall Pattern Company
(uucp: ...!rutgers!depot!mccall!tp)          615 McCall Road
(800)255-2762, in KS (913)776-4041           Manhattan, KS 66502, USA
Xref: sparky alt.config:8645 alt.sport.photon:3
From: banz@umbc.edu (Rob Banz)
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.sport.photon
Subject: Newgroup alt.sport.photon
Date: 26 Jan 1993 23:24:35 -0500
Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County Campus
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: umbc7.umbc.edu

I'd like to know if there's any objection/total jubilation of the creation
of this newsgroup.  Sorry that I didn't post to alt.config before I created
the newsgroup, but I'm sort of new at this newsgroup creation thing.

Anyhow, the newsgroup is there to discuss the game/sport of Photon as
was/is played in Photon centers that are/were across the country.

That's about it...any ideas/flames/etc...

Rob Banz (banz@umbc.edu)
...in the Photon world as "target"
From: emv@msen.com (Edward Vielmetti)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: alt reorg
Date: 27 Jan 1993 08:00:07 GMT
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, Michigan
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.msen.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Paul A Vixie (vixie@pa.dec.com) wrote:

: second, to answer your question, i believe that making this a subscription-only
: service should arrange it so that "becker" will never even see the control
: messages.  and in any case, the members of the "alt.cabal" will not be
: accepting control messages in "alt" from anyone other than the alt.cabal.

We ignore both rmgroups and newgroups for alt group here.  If there
is traffic on any alt group we carry it.  (No traffic, no carry it.)

Votes are for weenies, cabals are for control freaks.  Post early and often.

--Ed
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: smurphy@unix1.tcd.ie (Mithrandir(S))
Subject: Alternative propsal [alt.pub.d to alt.pub.forum]  
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:37:46 GMT

     After reading somebody's article about propsing alt.pub.d,
  I would like to say that I would prefer it to be called 
    something like alt.pub.forum, a name with a bit of flavour
  as opppsed to a simple .d -ing.
 
    I already emailed sometyhing like this, but I don't think it got
 through

--
  To those tryiong to get in touch with Mithrandir, do not email
to the Address in the header. It is borrowed, cause my newsfeed
has exploded.  
     Email:tkelly@unix2.tcd.ie  Thanks.  
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: smurphy@unix1.tcd.ie (Mithrandir(S))
Subject: What happened to alt.books.anne-rice?
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 14:26:50 GMT


  Simple question.


--
  To those tryiong to get in touch with Mithrandir, do not email
to the Address in the header. It is borrowed, cause my newsfeed
has exploded.  
     Email:tkelly@unix2.tcd.ie  Thanks.
From: jbw@bigbird.bu.edu (Joe Wells)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: alt.answers alternatives
Date: 25 Jan 93 12:50:45 GMT
Organization: Boston University Computer Science Department
In-reply-to: jef@netcom.com's message of 21 Jan 93 04:58:58 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.045858.29037@netcom.com> jef@netcom.com (Jef Poskanzer) writes:

   3) Make alt.answers self-moderated.  So far there have been no serious
   objections to this idea.  No doubt Joe Wells will now object, so ignore
   him.

I love this.  "I can't beat Joe Wells's arguments, so I'll just tell
everyone else not to listen to him!".  Wow, how intelligent.

   I don't deal with Kamens, due to long experience with his
   anus-clenching attitude.

In case anyone is wondering, this is the kind of stuff that leads me to
label Jef Poskanzer as a twit.

   I suggested news.answers.d to Kamens twice, by the way, but he shot it
   down.

I hate to break a good conspiracy theory here, but Jonathan Kamens is not
in charge of news group creation, so he can't "shoot it down".

-- 
Joe Wells <jbw@cs.bu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: now batting (Was Babe Ruth was a control-weenie)
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 03:52:54 GMT

In article <2556@blue.cis.pitt.edu> tjw@vms.cis.pitt.edu writes:

>In article <C1G3Dw.CD1@unix.amherst.edu>, twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>
>> In article <2518@blue.cis.pitt.edu> tjw@vms.cis.pitt.edu writes:
>
>>>If you do, you must understand by now that control-weenies aren't looked
>>>upon favorably.  That's WHY there IS an ALTnet.
>>
>> Is that also why alt receives such lower propagation than Usenet?
>
>Possibly.  But remember that quantity doesn't imply quality.  Or vise-versa.

Sure.  But quality isn't the issue -- popularity is.  If
control-weenies aren't popular, anarchists must be considered even
less desirable.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: phil@rahul.net (Phil Gustafson)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: No, don't (Was: Re: eschew moderated alt newsgroups)
Date: 22 Jan 93 00:29:40 GMT
Followup-To: alt.config
Organization: Famed Parquet Floor



In article <2240@blue.cis.pitt.edu> tjw@vms.cis.pitt.edu writes:
>
>Here's some unsolicited advice:  In the future, the moderator should assign
>the archive name when there is a dispute.  "No ifs, ands, or buts.  You don'
>like it?  Start yer own archive!"
>
This is exactly right.  Jonathan Kamens has done a fine job with
news.answers, and had provided a valuable service to the net.  A year or so
ago, he was faced with a bumptious former FAQmeister of AFU who wanted to
call the afu archive jik-dik.  Or maybe jik-dick.

Now, in five minutes, he could have resolved this matter politely:

  I believe that afu-faq is a more appropriate name for the archive.

Or, if he were grouchier:

  I believe that afu-faq is a more appropriate name for the archive, asshole.

Or, if he wished to earn the hearts of afu-ers everywhere (and there are
more than 40,000 of us):

  The archive is called peter-pooter.  Live with it.

People have called Jon "stuffy" and "anal", and this may be true.  This
is why we post to afu and he doesn't.  But the afu FAQ is a valuable 
resource, and deserves news.answers, and it's sad that a silly tiff
has kept it out.

Phil


-- 
|play: phil@rahul.net
|work: (Under Construction)              | Phil Gustafson 408-286-1749      |
|         Opinions outside attributed material are mine alone.              |
|        Satirical matter is not necessarily identified as such.            |
From: warren-matthew@cs.yale.edu (Matthew S. 'Opie' Warren)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Decision time (Was: Re: alt.answers alternatives)
Date: 26 Jan 1993 19:24:07 -0500
Organization: Mail Forwarding Department, Yale College
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: zoo-gw.cs.yale.edu

In article <1993Jan26.045903.6693@netcom.com> Jef Poskanzer 
<jef@netcom.com> writes:
>}2) Make alt.answers with Kamens as moderator.
>}3) Make alt.answers self-moderated.
>}4) New idea: do both 2 and 3, with different groups.
>
>5) Another new idea: do both 2 and 3 with the same group.  Those who
>want to consider Kamens the moderator are free to do so.  Those who
>want to consider the group self-moderated are free to do so.  We agree
>to disagree.

This is getting quite silly.  There appear to be two (very vocal) groups,
one which wants Jonathan as the moderator of alt.answers, and one that,
well, disagrees.  "Agreeing to disagree" is a very nice, alt-like situation,
but NOT one that ever, EVER works in the _same newsgroup_.  

It would be nice if we could have just one alt.answers (complete of course
with the quality archive service already offered at pit-manager, or a
useful equivalent) but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

So, Jef and others against Jonathan, this question is addressed to you:
If two groups were created tomorrow, alt.answers and (say) alt.answers.alt,
would you confine your FAQ postings to alt.answers.alt and not mess with
alt.answers?

If this answer is 'yes,' I humbly propose that we go with the best of
some lousy alternatives and create two groups.

Matt


-- 
Matthew S. "Opie" Warren     warren-matthew@yale.edu
"It wouldn't have been anything, even if it were gonna be a thing."
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: kherron@ms.uky.edu (Kenneth Herron)
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: alt.music.TBone-mafia
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:42:08 GMT

tothmd@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Michael David Toth) writes:

>alt.music.Tbone.et.al  OR  alt.music.TBBurnett.et.al  ?

It bears pointing out that a group name with capital letters in
it won't go anywhere.  They're generally not considered valid
in group names.

As for this particular proposal, unnecessary dots should be 
avoided whenever possible.  "alt.music.tbone" or "alt.music.tbburnett"
would be much better names.
-- 
Kenneth Herron                                            kherron@ms.uky.edu
University of Kentucky                                       +1 606 257 2975
Dept. of Mathematics "Your ball goes over them, it sails off the edge into a
huge cauldren of fire-breathing dragons."  "And they call this a par three?"
From: aforum@moose.uvm.edu (autonome forum)
Subject: ADMIN: please create alt.politics.radical-left
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 22:22:10 GMT

Well, there seems to be lots of support for the creation of
alt.politics.radical-left, both from a few postings here, and
from e-mail we have received.

Could someone with admin privileges please send out a control
message to start the group? Thanks!

	autonome forum
	aforum@moose.uvm.edu

Newsgroups: alt.config
From: phil@rahul.net (Phil Gustafson)
Subject: Re: No, don't (Was: Re: eschew moderated alt newsgroups)
Organization: Famed Parquet Floor
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:26:07 GMT

In article <2240@blue.cis.pitt.edu> tjw@vms.cis.pitt.edu writes:
>
>Here's some unsolicited advice:  In the future, the moderator should assign
>the archive name when there is a dispute.  "No ifs, ands, or buts.  You don'
>like it?  Start yer own archive!"
>
This is exactly right.  Jonathan Kamens has done a fine job with
news.answers, and had provided a valuable service to the net.  A year or so
ago, he was faced with a bumptious former FAQmeister of AFU who wanted to
call the afu archive jik-dik.  Or maybe jik-dick.

Now, in five minutes, he could have resolved this matter politely:

  I believe that afu-faq is a more appropriate name for the archive.

Or, if he were grouchier:

  I believe that afu-faq is a more appropriate name for the archive, asshole.

Or, if he wished to earn the hearts of afu-ers everywhere (and there are
more than 40,000 of us):

  The archive is called peter-pooter.  Live with it.

People have called Jon "stuffy" and "anal", and this may be true.  This
is why we post to afu and he doesn't.  But the afu FAQ is a valuable 
resource, and deserves news.answers, and it's sad that a silly tiff
has kept it out.

Phil


-- 
|play: phil@rahul.net
|work: (Under Construction)              | Phil Gustafson 408-286-1749      |
|         Opinions outside attributed material are mine alone.              |
|        Satirical matter is not necessarily identified as such.            |
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: graaff@dutiws.twi.tudelft.nl (Hans de Graaff)
Subject: Re: alt reorg
Organization: Delft University of Technology
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 17:27:25 GMT

In article <VIXIE.93Jan24010432@cognition.pa.dec.com> vixie@pa.dec.com (Paul A Vixie) writes:
>[Richard H. Miller]
>> You cannot succeed in completely removing an alt group. There will be
>> enough 'becker' types to guarantee that the old groups will never be
>> removed.
>I'm sorry, I've been out of alt.config for a while.  Who is "becker" ?
Somebody who doesn't like any alt-group to disappear, regardless.
Never noticed the fake newgroups for alt.graphics? Becker's in the
path somewhere.

>Would TMC be willing to configure its news transport to unconditionally
>accept control messages in "alt.*" from tale@uunet.uu.net?  You're probably
>right that noone can kill old alt groups, but would could get a band of us
>together who all trust a central authority and at least keep the cruft out
>of the bigger news servers.  My active file has 6,510 lines in it, and I'm
>feeling pressed by my kernel to make each "active" line worthwhile.

Doesn't that defy the whole purpose of alt, it being an uncontrolled
hierarchy? If you want a controlled hierarchy you should either look
for the big seven, or create a new hierarchy like alt-controlled,
which is a contradiction in terms.

I guess that alt will always be the mess that it is. Cope and manage
your active file, or drop alt alltogether.

Hans

-- 
Hans de Graaff                  | I want someone to follow,
J.J.deGraaff@IS.TWI.TUDelft.NL  |   who doesn't lead the way
Department of Informatics       | I want someone to listen,
Delft University of Technology  |   who won't repeat what I say
From: jhurley@husc3.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: alt.pol.r-l; another argument
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:43:50 EST
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1k21rjINNiuc@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu 
responds to a post of mine where I advocated the proposed alt.pol.radical-
left: 
> 
> Is there some reason that [left-wing] theoretical discussions could not 
>be handled by talk.politics. theory?
> --
I have never read t.p.t., but I would point out that leftists are
far outside the mainstream of discourse on political theory in the U.S.,
(though probably less so among the intellectual types who read the net) 
and that a forum for specifically radical-left political theory would
likely elicit more participation than we could expect from leftists in
a broader political discussion group.

Also, by "theoretical discussion," I meant "programme-formulation" as
well as political philosophy. Most non-leftists have little to contribute to,
and no interest in, leftist programme formulation, and hence it would be of 
little benefit to anyone to subsume this realm of discussion under
general political theory.  
> Richard H. Miller                 Email: rick@bcm.tmc.edu
> Asst.           
                                                    
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: fox@rei.com (Fuzzy Fox)
Subject: Re: alt reorg
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:41:51 GMT
Organization: Recognition Equipment, Inc.

vixie@pa.dec.com (Paul A Vixie) writes:

>Would TMC be willing to configure its news transport to unconditionally
>accept control messages in "alt.*" from tale@uunet.uu.net?

How do you handle the problem of forgeries?  Becker has been known to do
this.

-- 
#ifdef TRUE        | Fuzzy Fox (a.k.a. David DeSimone)       fuzzy@netcom.com
#define  TRUE   0  |
#define  FALSE  1  |         "S-O-C-K-S ?   Wow, Spanish *is* easy!!"
#endif             |
Xref: sparky alt.config:8545 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:13330 alt.politics.bush:16198 alt.politics.clinton:20792
From: cstone@husc8.harvard.edu (christopher stone)
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Idea: alt.forensics
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:17:07 GMT
Followup-To: alt.config
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

Since so many college (and high school) debaters seem to have access
to the net, and since a lot of former debaters might like to see 
what's changed in the activity, and since grad students and so forth
in Europe (and Canada I think) still participate in debate, why not
establish an alt group about debate as a formal activity.  We could
also analyze things like presidential debates and so on.  Possible
names: alt.debate, alt.forensics?

Chris
Newsgroups: alt.config