From: payne@ecf.toronto.edu (PAYNE DENISE JOYCE)
Subject: Re: ok i repent - NOT!
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 07:14:15 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.002903.17016@athena.mit.edu> valerie@athena.mit.edu (who me?) writes:
>I'm too cynical to be a cynic myself.  The "culture" is fine, but I
>don't really want to be a part of it, I don't have the time.  I'd just
>rather sit alone in my room and listen to the music, not run around
>embracing it's misunderstood messages with my wardrobe and attitude.  I
>resent being called one of those "mainstream alternative" idiots because
>I don't own a leather jacket.  The music itself is what matters to me.
 
I find alot more incidence of people that are all hair and black leather
jacket that are into the disco stuff than the real stuff. For some reason'
it has become a fashion competition at clubs to see who can have the biggest
hair and blackest clothes at the industrial-goth-aint-dead clubs. Thats where
the crap is played.
 
What am I saying? I'm wrong. Its NOT suprising that its a fashion competition
at the clubs where discodeath industrial is played. Its just like all the other
clubs full of housers listening to techno, or headbanger clubs or hairspray/
makeup-and-not-black-clothes places. Same everywhere. THe music is adopted
as a fashion statement.
 
I find that people who are REALLY into ANY kind of music rarely adopt that
style of musics (stereo)typical dress code. You can observe this and then
make a point of NOT dressing like that to make be one step k00ler. I dont,
I just think that wearing all black and expensive leather jackets looks
stupid. 
 
Maybe I have no style at all, but most of my clothes are functional and
thats about it. I avoid clothes which are obviously functional but have
been stereotyped to death (or generally look fucking silly) such as
pants with 250 pockets (army jock offshoots) or acid-wash jeans. Thigns
with bows, lace, extra elastics, pockets, shoulder straps, spikes,
fringes, etc. just look stupid.
 
The other problem with my clothing if its not that I'm really not affected
by trends is that I'm affected by too many. My taste goes beyond RMI, tho
not beyond NM List, since anything goes there. I've been listening to
alot of rap lately, as well as death metal, some improv jazz/noise,
classical, madrigals and gothic chanting, severe tribal industrial
percussion, industrial metal percussion, garage core, hardcore and all
the Amphetamine Reptile and Alternative Tentacles that you can stomach, plus
Wire and the rest of the post punk offshoots. Leaves me a little confused,
so functionality is a safe bet.
 
Enough about me, since obviously I'm a special case, and have thought all
of this out just to show I'm cool. Yes? No. I noticed this among others
before I noticed myself. I got caught stereotyping and expected that when
I finally met my college-station fave DJ of an industrial show that he'd
be big haired and all the rest. He looked more like a grad student than
anything else (tho he's wasn't in school). A few more people later that
know shitloads about industrial and related scenes and I was sure: peopel
who know what the hell they're talking about dont dress like anything, and
dont act like anything.
 
Justin certainly doesnt seem very industrial to me. Mebbe its cause in person
we've somehow managed to not talk about industrial very much. He certainly
doesn't look very industrial, in the hair or the clothes. Ask Greg (Clow, not
Duke.)
 
I have noticed that the people who wear lots of leather dont know very much
beyond the hit discodeath band of the month, or if they do, they know alot
about one thing and thats it. (Case in point, super duper leather and hair
acid head worships Thee Psychik Tv Dudes and knows them inside out, and
nothing else.)
 
So I dont know what you're talking about Leather = knowledge. I bet there
was more leather at Lollapalooza per capita than at the :ZF: show here.
There were 6 people in a crowd of 60 at the music gallery when Illusion
Of Safety played who were in leather. (Oh ya, I forgot, you've bastardized
industrial to no longer mean what it meant, tho I still call IoS industrial.)
("Who the hell are illusion of safety?")
 
As for me being so high on knowledge, before you flame me for it and all. I
do think I know someting about industrial, real industrial, when it was
called that. It doesnt matter what it is, but I'm really into it and
I am interested in it, and I dont pretend I know more than I do. (not by
clothes anyway). I have respect for ANYONE who is REALLY into the music
they like. As well, I find they dont have clothes to say that.
 
Final observation. I find that anyone who is REALLY into a music scene likes
selected bits of "popular music" (ranging from Lush to Puppy to Public Enemy
to Soundgarden to Elvis Costello to Madonna to Rush), but their main
interest is NEVER whats popular at all. I dont know what it is, and maybe
what Justin was saying about "good" things being unpopular by definition has
some truth here in. Perhaps he (and I) just think that "good" means new.
(Of course we'll have all the classical music debates here now, but I'd
like to pre-empt them now to save space.)
 
Writing without a fullscreen editor is a bitch. Dont flame me on style
and not re-editting my verbosities. I want my jove.
 
/kc
sizone!really_I_just_cant_afford_cool_clothing@ee.ryerson.ca
via payne@ecf.toronto.edu
 (her clothes dont fit me but somehow mine fit her. unfair. etc.)
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