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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 10:09:11 -0500
From:         GAYLA BASSHAM <BASGD@RHODES.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: remedial civics; or,
              moral outrage as the lingua franca of the gop

>I thought that Judy Woodruff was going to slug Barbara Bush.  Mrs. Bush
>was not exactly following Ms. Woodruff's lead.  To be fair, I thought
>that some of Ms. Woodruff's questions were a little off-base to ask
>the First Lady (like who in the cabinet would be replaced).

>   i can't imagine ms. woodruff asking hillary clinton the same kind
>  of questions. "how do you feel about your husband's rumored skirt-
>  chasing?" and people call liberal bias a myth . . .

Wasn't that pretty much what Hillary Clinton *was* asked in the 60 Minutes
interview before the New Hampshire primary?

>...Rick

>   rtf

-----Gayla
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Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 13:22:07 -0400
From:         KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
Subject:      more on Baker

Hi again :)
Last night's TV fare was loaded with stuff on the Baker move.  Some of the
stuff I found interesting:

1.  Mark Shields, among others, said the Democrats should *not* play the
"if foreign policy is so important why did you pull this guy out of the
ring" tune.  But I don't exactly remember why :)

2.  There was lots of discussion about why Baker made the move -- giving up
his obvious important and autonomous position to play second fiddle etc.
etc.  A couple people pointed out, though, that Baker is likely to have a
whole bunch (one even said "unprecedented level") of power to frame policy
(foreign and domestic) within the White House.  They suggested that, both
as Chief of Staff and as head of the Campaign, one of his biggest jobs will
be to provide "the vision thing" -- which he will be doing with the
assistance of the guy who wrote his "farewell" address to the State Dept.
folks.

3.  Speaking of the farewell address: someone stated that Baker's tenure as
Secretary of State was one of trememdous concentration of power at the top
-- that career folks had less autonomy, authority, involvement in decision
making, etc., than they had under other leaders.  This is particularly
interesting because Baker is reportedly taking with him the core of folks
who had the most influence within the State Department.  Where will that
leave diplomacy?

4.  One thing to watch for will be how the relationship between Baker and
Quayle plays out -- what will Quayle's role be once Baker's on board?

Anyway, it all sounds like we're in for some interesting times!  What do
y'all think?

Kerry
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:04:49 -0500
From:         "j.b. cormier" <CORJB@RHODES.BITNET>
Subject:      Reading List

I was just wondering where everyone obtains their
information?  What magazines are read?  What
newspapers?  What news programs are watched or
heard?

I'm just curious.


vox populi, vox dei-
j.b.

"I am immortal and you know what I mean. . . "
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 13:55:58 -0400
From:         KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
Subject:      Re: Somewhat Unusual "Family Values"

MacPhil:
>>working, but whose low skills level confines them to low-paying jobs.
>
>And I'm sure now they wish they had worked harder while in school instead
>of doodling little hearts in their notebooks and figuring ways to copy
>someone's homework.

Huh?????????

Kerry
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:12:00 EDT
From:         "Peter J. Schledorn" <UNCPJS@UNC.BITNET>
Subject: Re: About Buchanan

> >For what it's worth, the one number I remember is this:  if the wealthiest
> >2% were still paying the same rates they were before the 80's cuts, their
> >taxes in 1991 would amount to about $70 billion (or maybe it was million --
> >I'll have to check).
>
> Okay, that's a total figure. But how much are those 2% paying now?  If
> the increase is nominal, then it supports my concern(s).  As an example,
> if those 2% are now paying $50 billion and changing their rates increases
> it to a {total} of $70 billion, then from the perspective of the
> federal budget, it's not all that much...

That would be an increase.  Another estimate is that if the entire
Federal tax system was restored to its pre-1981 state, revenues would
increase by about $100 billion per year.

Best,
Peter

> MacPhil / iqti400@indycms.bitnet / iqti400@indycms.iupui.edu
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 08:49:00 EST
From:         Gary Parsons <PARSONS@FAUVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: RNC IV: A Prudent Finale

      "brainwashed puppets"????

      Just what do yiou think the democrats were????
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 12:01:40 EDT
From:         K=A*T <MEC038@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Suicide, Bush, Abortion, etc.
              13 Aug 1992 11:46:00 -0400 from
              <JULIE%DRYCAS.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU@CARNEGIE>

From:         Song Weaver <JULIE%DRYCAS.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU@CARNEGIE.BITNET>

> Okay-- a couple points: He _could_ threaten to disown her or cut her
> off if she's living off of any of his money.  He could also, easily
> enough, make it very difficult for her by informing the whole family
> and creating massive stigma about it for her.  ......................

And if he is such nice guy (kinder, gentler nation, remember that?)
who cannot do this himself, he can call in Jerry Falwell and Pat
Robertson to have some "friendly" talk with his daughter.

> --Julie

--KAT
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Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 09:46:10 -0500
From:         ANTHLAL@UMNACVX.BITNET
Subject:      *yawn*

yeah, okay.  rights.  fine.

mc carthy, in his infinite wisdom, has correctly pointed out the possible
disasters of not considering history when talking about this sort of stuff.

i don't think the universal declaration of human rights is a treaty.
that's probably a good thing, given how the united states feels about
running roughshod over them (which is to say, uh, like, no compunctions
about doing so).
treaties, i mean, not human rights.  although that's negotiable, too.

ug.  this is not going well.  back after i do my interview and have
some caffeine.
topics to be covered:  kicking out the moderates in the gop
                       the ever-popular tortured language effect; or,
                       political correctness takes a holiday
                       what to do about mice
                       john foster dulles
                       conspicuous consumption
                       architecture in the vast wasteland
                       the murder-suicide phenomenon
                       how gary olson became the center of the universe

stay tuned to this bat-channel....
                                         * * * anneliese
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:16:10 EST
From:         macphil <IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Night 3 at the ol' RNC
Comments: To: Forum for the Discussion of Politics <POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>
              21 Aug 1992 18:57:00 -0400 from <JULIE%DRYCAS.CLUB
              .CC.CMU.EDU@CARNEGIE>

On Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:57:00 Julie said:
>deaths.  Furthermore, I think there is a great deal more education
>that could be done to reduce the occurrence of cancer and heart
>disease.

So if one were to say "we have an idea what contributes to cancer and
heart disease beyond genetics and here's what you should or shouldn't
do" the same principles couldn't be applied to AIDS?

>However, I think that a lot more drugs have been tested for cancer and
>heart disease than have been for AIDS

How much longer has research been done for cancer & heart disease?
AIDS isn't the only immune system disorder...look how little we
really know.

>deliberate stalling when in comes to AIDS research.

One might argue that on the part of the gov't, but do you really
think researchers are stalling?  In addition to my earier statements
'bout instant fame & fortune, humanitarian reasons in general, and
knowing they would be condemning any friends or family who contract
the disease because they were unwilling to work harder?

Now you're starting to sound like _A World /S Cancer_... :)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The lesser of two evils is still evil." - Winston Churchill

MacPhil / iqti400@indycms.bitnet / iqti400@indycms.iupui.edu
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 10:44:23 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: apologies for the last post,
              and maybe even a little politics, too

Anneliese:

What do you mean by "existence precedes essense?"  Is this another
of those stupid Calvin Klein perfume commercials?

--Missy P 2 B
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 12:26:02 CDT
From:         "rufus t. firefly" <U9AA@SDSUMUS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Night 3 at the ol' RNC

   julie, are you maybe thinking of liberace? welk just died a few
months ago, from liver disease or some such. no aids stuff was cited
as cause of death.

rtf
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 12:43:24 EST
From:         macphil <IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Night 3 at the ol' RNC
Comments: To: Forum for the Discussion of Politics <POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>
              20 Aug 1992 13:02:00 -0400 from <JULIE%DRYCAS.CLUB
              .CC.CMU.EDU@CARNEGIE>

On Thu, 20 Aug 1992 13:02:00 -0400 Men-- can't live with 'em,              can't
>Missy:  I think it's the President's responsibility to know when someone
>has died of AIDS-related illnesses, especially someone famous.  I don't
>expect Bush to be alerted every 10 minutes (One Person with AIDS dies
>every 10 minutes, on the average) but I expect him to know when it's
>someone prominent and I wish he'd really care.


Caring by _____________________ ?
(twenty-five words or fewer, please)

Is this going to be more spending on research?  Let's not go through
that again.  Somehow throwing more money at it doesn't necessarily
mean a solution will be found sooner.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The lesser of two evils is still evil." - Winston Churchill

MacPhil / iqti400@indycms.bitnet / iqti400@indycms.iupui.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 14:17:00 EST
From:         linda <SABOE@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject:      shop til you drop

we have malls, but our malls are kinda spaced out (geographically that is)
there is the world famous King of Prussia Plaza which was at one time in
ancient history the largest shopping area in the world (this was before they
were even called malls, dear children).

i was with my sister at the Plaza (as we call it here). my kid was getting
something to eat at the huge eating mall (sort of a food mall w/in a mall).
so anyway, we were sitting on one of these brick sitting things and i was
just sorta watchin the people go by. it struck me then that i had never seen
so many ugly people with really bad taste in one place like that.

so i said, lori (that's her name)...i said, lori, have you ever seen so many
ugly people with really bad taste all in one place before?
she said, yeah, last christmas when i was here shopping.

i like banana republic too. they have great sales sometimes. got a skirt for
$6 once.
i like any book store that has a cooking section.
i cry as i pass the windows at bloomies and macy's.
i like fantes cookware store. i cry alot there also.

TWO NEW BOOKSTORES

barnes & nobles just opened up in bryn mawr. its supposed to be great-cappucino
bar and everything.
borders book store just opened up less that 2 miles from them. they have a
cappucino bar too, but i was there and not too impressed. looked like a giant
encore with food and no discount.

carl forgot to tell everyone how many roadside produce stands there are in
new jersey. they are very important.

we would starve here in pennsylvania without silver queen corn and jersey
tomatoes. its the only reason we continue to allow n.j. to exist

love & kisses to all, and to all a good friday.

-linda   (i'm feeling kinda sentimental today, definitely a red wine night
'stead o' beer)
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Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 08:45:03 EDT
From:         K=A*T <MEC038@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Can the gipper win a forth term...for Republicans?

From:         more noise please <SWEDE@DRYCAS.BITNET>

> So far, the Republican convention has been rather lame, but they're still
> slogging through the b-speakers.  Maybe the gipper will pick things up...

> Gary W.

Actually, Reagan did pick things up.  I caught the last half of
his speech.  I thought he was really good.  He made people feel
good and made everyone laugh many times.  But is this gonna help
that much?  I think what he did was equivalent to a good monologue
by Jay Leno.  But still when you get up next morning, you've got
to worry about bills, child care, sending your kids to college,
public education, health care, etc.  And don't you think Reagan's
speech reminded people of who/what Bush is not, and not who/what
Bush is?

--KAT
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 11:31:25 CDT
From:         the annoying will inherit the earth <T9AA@SDSUMUS.BITNET>
Subject:      Elections

>Imagine:
>  What if Clinton and Bush were not running for President.  Which
>Democrat or Republican would you vote for for President?

Democrat: I really like Bob Kerrey, but I liked Larry Agran more.
     I'll go for Larry.
Republican: Well, as I am generally for fiscal responsibility, but
     I don't like the race-baiting, queer-bashing of Buchanan, I
     know that about a dozen of Kemp's wonderful "Enterprize Zones"
     burned to the ground in Los Angeles, and I don't think that
     William Reilly has the all-around experience to be a president,
     I'd have to go with William Weld, if I had to vote republican.
     I'd prefer not to, however.

>Evelyn Duncan

Dave
t9aa@sdsumus.bitnet
Ask not what your government can do for you,
ask what it is doing to you.
              --Jerome Kingsbury

Disclaimer:  The opinions contained in this post are not the
opinions of the Administration, Faculty, or Student Body of
South Dakota State University.  Hell, they might not even
be mine.
From: 92price@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Family values--isn't that special?
Date: 20 Aug 92 00:07:37 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

I suppose the convention went better on this third night.  There was still a
lot of Clinton-bashing, but I think a lot less.  It still surprises me, though,
the depths of distortion, hypocracy, and outright falsehood these people will
go--they are really desperate.  I think the convention attendees were tonight,
too, they appeared sedate and vacuous, as if they lowered their expectations
and got drunk before coming, so that maybe they could force themselves to
believe the speakers as they explain to the crowds how they actually are better
off four years later, they just don't know it.  Nobody really had anything to 
say much, other than boring campaign rhetoric, from the glimpses I could 
handle--it was really as boring as, say, Mondale or Dukakis, tonight.  I don't
believe Bush will recieve a dramatic rescue from this night, actually, this
being "family values" night, I don't think too many Americans were watching,
as Americans have never liked being preached to ("family values" being much
like the whole "politically correct" thing--both ideas made exteremely
unpopular by distortion by over-zealous avatars).

Oh, and could someone explain how allowing competent gays to remain in the
military, allowing them to teach and adopt children, allowing them to have
legally-recognized marriages, be protected from discrimination in the
workplace, etc. is "giving them special priviledges" as opposed to "treating 
them like everyone else?"  Sounds to me like saying "WAR IS PEACE."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm your governor, Pete Wilson, you know,                  |  Kai Alexis Price
the baddest governor to ever grab the mike and go "boom!"  |
Give me a budget and watch me hack it--                    | Calif. Uber Alles--
Give me a beat and I'll show you how to jack it.           | by the Disposable
I give the rich a giant tax loophole--                     | Heroes of
I leave the poor living in a poophole....                  | Hiphopracy
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 09:57:55 -0700
From:         Andy Freeman <andy@SAIL.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: kerry, have you been inhaling?

>I think, Missy P 2 B, that civility would be NOT to yell "Shut Up" at the
>grieving wives and relatives of those killed and/or missing in action!

According to statements released by the group in question, the
hecklers who were told to "shut up" were NOT "grieving wives and
relatives".

BTW - "Grieving" doesn't imply that one is being civil or attempting
civilized debate.

-andy
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
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Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 11:14:00 EST
From:         linda <SABOE@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Oooops,. . .

DAN QUAYLE HAS THE BEST POLITICAL MIND IN .... no, i can't take it anymore.

anyone know how the job situation is in iceland? nice small place, not many
tourists, norse gods ....

-linda
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 12:15:38 EDT
From:         Jamie <PL436000@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Political browsing

KAT,
You have my permission to cross post from my postings out of
context.

Dunstan,
Uh, you might want to have a building contractor inspect your new
houses for you. Esp. one with some plumbing experience.


Jamie
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Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:53:32 -0400
From:         Andrew Allen <E7L8ALL@TOWSONVX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: i thought libraries were safe places to work

>i think pat robertson has put a curse on libraries cause they are staffed
>primarily with women, giving us access to ungodly amounts of INFORMATION.
>and that could lead to KNOWLEDGE.
>and of course that could lead us all into the depths of INTELLIGENCE.

Ah, why don't you fnord check and see if your books on the fnord CIA
are still in stock, speaking of fnord intelligence. B)

>-linda  (and i feel fine)

-other Andy
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Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 11:47:11 MST
From:         Roger <CARROLL@SCC.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: kerry, have you been inhaling?

Subj:   Re: kerry, have you been inhaling?

>                       Since you asked:
>
>Missy president wish-to-be says:"the republicans are the party of
>civilized debate on every issue".
>
>If this is true, why did George Bush refuse to answer questions on his
>policies at a recent news conference and tell the questioners to shut
>up and listen? Shut up and listen does not equal debate.

>>                        Apparently you are misinformed.  Bush was
>>                        making a speech, not giving a news conference
>>                        in the incident you mention.  He told them to
>>                        shut up and listen because they were in the
>>                        *audience* and this was not a *debate*.
>>                        Civility dictates that an audience allow
>>                        the speaker to speak and to confine their
>>                        comments and responses to those commonly
>>                        accepted in such settings.  They're lucky
>>                        Bush is a civil person.  Axl Rose would have
>>                        jumped into the audience and beaten the
>>                        stuffing out of them.

>>                        --Missy P 2 B

I think, Missy P 2 B, that civility would be NOT to yell "Shut Up" at the
grieving wives and relatives of those killed and/or missing in action!
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