HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hrbob@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (robert.e.wiersbe)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: HPR motor hooks (was Re: Estes composites, etc...)
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:18:59 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <BtyI5y.C9H@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> jsivier@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jonathon Sivier ) writes:
>
>   On this subject, does anyone have any suggestions/recomendations for systems
>to provide positive retention of the motor in the motor mount.  Something like
>the motor hooks used in 18 and 24mm motor mounts, only larger.  Are such things
>available or do you have to roll your own.  Every time I tape a reloadable in
>one of my rockets I think "What if I didn't secure it well enough and it blows
>out instead of deploying the chute?".  If that happens then the rocket is
>destroyed (prang!) and the reloadable motor is lost and/or destroyed falling
>from a great height.  I'm trying to think of some clever system to ensure that
>this doesn't happen and thought that other folks have probably had these same
>problems and may have worked out solutions.
>
>   Thanks for your assistance.
>
>Jonathan
>

Bob Kaplow uses special metal hooks that he bolts to the bottom centering ring.
The hooks look like this:

        |\
        | \
        |  \
        |   \
        |
        |
        |
        |
 _______|

He epoxies the nut to the inside of the centering ring, and the bolts need an
allen wrench to tighten (you could use any kind). He also has different length
hooks for different size motors. I think the hooks are made out of brass.

BTW, thanks for posting the info on the CIA launch last Sunday! I've wanted to
try out my Nike-Tomahawk for months! Those runways sure are rough on rockets...

Bob Wiersbe	NAR# 44588	hrbob@ihlpb.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: Jim Cook <J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM>
Subject: Re: Summary of NARAM Coming?
Reply-To: <J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM>
Organization: Prime Computer, Inc.
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:40:23 GMT

In article <1992Aug24.152142.343@primerd.prime.com> Jim Cook (me!)
<J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM> writes:

>Ummm...Maybe I can recommend a couple of things:
>
>1. Join the NAR and receive "American Spacemodeling" magazine.  AmSpac
>   should have extensive coverage in an issue or two.  Or you can just
>   order a back issue with coverage of last year's event.
>
>2. Kyle Shruge was there all week with his S-VHS outfit recording the
>   event and interviewing people.  He probably has about 10 - 15 hours
>   of raw tape to edit down now.  He will be selling copies for about
>   $25 - $30.  I bought a copy.
>

Okay, the 1991 NARAM 33 was covered in the November/December 1991 issue of
"American Spacemodeling" (there were some photos in the previous issue,
but not much text).  Back copies of this issue can be had for $4.50 each
from: Back Issues, 5521 Newell Street, Zachary, LA  70791.  The coordinator
for these is Terre Barklage.  Note: Be sure to include a note on whether a
photocopy is acceptable in case they are out of that particular issue.

Videos are avail from: Kyle Shurge, 6201 Sunset Blvd. #158, Hollywood,
CA  90028.  (310) 247-5962.  I ordered the NARAM 34 video.  I believe 
the prices are $29 each plus $4 postage, but you probably should call to
confirm this.  Though neither have arrived yet, a friend also ordered the
"Rocket Men 4" compilation tape which includes "Randall Redd's flying tank,
Ray Dunakin's movie camera rockets, Neil Fishman's alternate propulsion 
systems, and Greg Berg launching a Butterball turkey."

Jim
From: msjohnso@daisy.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Mark Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Where did my rocket go??
Date: 24 Aug 92 12:50:42 GMT
Reply-To: msjohnso@daisy.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Mark Johnson)
Organization: NCR Corporation, Wichita KS

In article <1992Aug18.223722.23955@primerd.prime.com> <J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM> writes:
>Estes did demonstrate some of their composite motors at NARAM-34.
>Mary Roberts of Estes said although they had the correct propellant
>formulations, they were not the final casings, etc.
>
>I don't remember any official promised date for their release.

Mike Hellmund of Estes told me they expected to be shipping by about
March 31, 1993. I'm not certain whether this is initial quantities or 
volume shipments. Given the state of the industry, it had better mean
volume delivery into the distributor pipeline, but who knows.


-- 
Mark Johnson                          USnail: NCR Peripheral Products Division
E-mail:  Mark.Johnson@WichitaKS.NCR.COM       3718 N. Rock Rd.
Voice: (316) 636-8189 [V+ 654-8189]           Wichita, KS  67226
[Non-business email: 76670.1775@compuserve.com]
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu
Subject: Re: Ignition Systems
Organization: U of M Hospitals
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 17:37:13 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.144744.25361@rsd0.rsd.dl.nec.com> buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com
(Buzz McDermott) writes:
>
>Are you sure this was an ENIAC?  I do recall a DATAMATION article (in the
>spring of '76, I think...I remember the date 'cause it was my senior year
>and all...) about the last IBM 650 to be taken off line.  This was supposed 
>to be the last all-tube commercial computer in use.  It was a rather 
>interesting article.  The fact that I remember most about the story was when
>the old IBM SE described the diagnostic procedure for fixing the thing:
>turn off all the lights and replace any tubes that don't glow!!  Well, that's
>what he said in the article, anyway!
>
>It was replaced with some type of much smaller computer system (I don't recall
>which type).  Mention was also made of the fact that the economic
justification
>for replacing the 650 included the fact that the money saved in power consump-
>tion alone paid for the basic lease price of the new computer!
>

My memory is from an old DDJ (Doctor Dobbs Journal of Computer Calesthentics
and Orthodontia/Running Light with out Over Byte) ca. 1980.  I'm using the
organic archive so I may not have all of the names right.  The article did talk
about the same trouble shooting technique.  The company ran batch accounting
and payroll routines and had refined their programs over the years so that they
could handle increased work loads.  The company always kept an eye out for
other machines that were being decommissioned - they bought them for spare
parts and had a couple more frames in a warehouse. 
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Nike v.s. Mosquito
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 23:31:36 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <24AUG199210175511@erin.caltech.edu> shoppa@erin.caltech.edu (TIM SHOPPA) writes:
>Many of the rockets mentioned in this book have similar accelerations, but
>there is no mention I have found about the difficulties of making payloads
>take these accelerations...

It's actually not that big a deal for solid-state electronics.  I saw an
article some years ago on the guidance package for the Copperhead, which
basically said "we just make sure everything's secured well to the boards
and the boards are well secured at their edges"... and the Copperhead is
an *artillery shell*.
-- 
There is nothing wrong with making      | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim|  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Competition Kits Question
Keywords: QCR and Apogee
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:46:11 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Aug28.052740.9264@ennews.eas.asu.edu>, elder@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Greg Elder) writes:
> I've decided to have a go at model rocketry competition and am
> looking at ordering some kits from Qualified Competition Rockets (QCR) and/or
> Apogee Components (streamer/parachute duration and boost glide kits).
> Does any one have an experience and or advice concerning kits from
> either of these companies?  (Yes, I checked the FAQ but it just lists
> their addresses.)  I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has built
> kits from any of these companies.  Thanks.

QCR sells simple, competition-tested kits.  Traditionally, they come in
a plastic fruit bag (the gaudier, the better).  Their motto is, "You can't
fly the packaging!"  The best thing about QCR is that they are CHEAP!  I
don't have a price list here, but many of their kits are $2, and some
of their B/G and R/G kits are only $3.50.  The instructions are xeroxed.
They are NOT like anyone else's kits.  If you were an expert competitor
and were putting together your own design out of hand-picked parts and
a sheet of balsa wood from the hobby shop, these are the parts you would
have.  No die-cut nonsense.  Ken Brown, who runs is, has been the Senior
Advisor of NOVAAR for something like 7 years, and has been the Regional
Contest Board chairman for about that long, too.  He's one of the nicest
guys in the world, and he's the inventor of the Purple People Eater 
oddroc.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: wcsbeau@alfred.carleton.ca (OPIRG)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: 'Tiger tail' igniters
Keywords: igniters
Date: 25 Aug 92 23:27:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: cunews.wcsbeau.714785260
Organization: Carleton University

I was in a local hobby shop today, and I was browsing through the
non-Estes section that was recently added.  Most or all of this
equipment is made by another company who's name I forget, but (I
belive) may be Canadian-based.  For sale were packages of "Tiger-tail
Igniters" (or something like that), which (from the back of the
package) appear to consist of a copper wire, coated at one end with
the usual chemical compounds, and secured into the engine with a
sticker wrapped around other end which was also wrapped around the
base of the engine.  There were two holes on the sticker arranged so
that the launcher clips would connect to opposite sides of the wire
about .5 - 1.5 cm appart (couldn't tell exactly).

Now, here are my questions:

Has anyone else seen/used such an igniter?  I'm used to the standard
Estes ones, and I've never seen anything like this before.

How do they work? is the wire actually two strips insulated from each
other with a standard igniter (nichrome, whatever) wire embedded in
the chemically-coated end, or is heat generated between the clips
simply conducted downd the wire into the chemicals at the engine end?
(This seems a little unlikly).

I'd really appreciate hearing from anyone about how [well] these
igniters work.

Christopher Allen
(wcsbeau@alfred.carleton.ca)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu
Subject: Re: Scale rocket competition
Organization: U of M Hospitals
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 11:12:07 GMT

In article <6082@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
writes:
>In article <BtwM40.5C5@news.larc.nasa.gov>, biedron@tab00.larc.nasa.gov
(Robert Biedron) writes:
>
>> hmm...sweeping shavings off the floor to make model rocket motors...?
>> I've never heard that story 
>> before - sounds a little far-fetched to me. Still, I suppose stranger things

>> have happened. 
>
>Why do you say that?  Isn't that how Jerry... um... forget I mentioned it.
>-- 
>
Jerry Brown has never made rocket motors - just Linda.
From: marchant@cea.berkeley.edu (Will Marchant)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Please stop calling Kaplow about the Prang Film...
Followup-To: rec.models.rockets
Date: 25 Aug 1992 18:53:24 GMT
Organization: Space Science Labs
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: sag4.ssl.berkeley.edu

Hey, Folks! Stop calling Bob Kaplow about the Prang film! He will investigate
making copies and will arrange for a posting to the Usenet when more details
are available. But for now PLEASE STOP CALLING. Thanks for your patience!

I just talked to him a few moments ago and he is getting bothered by the
number of calls. He asked me to post this and get people to cool off for a
while. Thanks!

(This is a repost with a different subject line. I wanted to try and attract
the attention of people that might not have remembered the original subject.
My apologies if this upset you.)

Will Marchant                   Center for Extreme Ultraviolet Astrophysics
marchant@cea.berkeley.edu       University of California
KC6ROL@WA6HAM.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA  2150 Kittredge St., Berkeley, CA 94720 USA
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets,rec.models.rc
From: miked@syscon.rn.com (Mike DeMetz)
Subject: Re: Micro Video
Organization: Syscon Corporate Headquarters - South Bend, IN USA
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:06:30 GMT

ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:

>In article <20AUG199211340700@vx.cis.umn.edu> soc1070                          writes:
>>This is the second time I'm sending this, so if it shows up twice forgive
>>me....
>>
>>I was in the local Target last night flipping through the new issue
>>of Popular Science when this item caught my eye. In the new products
>>section was a *micro* video camera/transmitter - 1.3 OUNCES and not
>>more than two inches square. In other words, ideal for a model/HP
>>rocket. (the blurb specifically mentions r/c aircraft as one intended
>>application).

Yes there are a few out there from the security bussiness. Check Supercircuits
ads in RCM. What was the price? Most I have seen are about $200.





>-- 
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
>Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
>Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: neil@boi.hp.com (Neil Pyke)
Subject: Re: HPR motor hooks (was Re: Estes composites, etc...)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 18:57:42 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1scd1 PL4

neil@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com		Neil Pyke at Hewlett Packard Co, Boise, ID

jsivier@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jonathon Sivier) writes:
:    On this subject, does anyone have any suggestions/recomendations for systems
: to provide positive retention of the motor in the motor mount.  Something like
: the motor hooks used in 18 and 24mm motor mounts, only larger.  Are such things
: available or do you have to roll your own.  Every time I tape a reloadable in
: one of my rockets I think "What if I didn't secure it well enough and it blows
: out instead of deploying the chute?".  If that happens then the rocket is
: destroyed (prang!) and the reloadable motor is lost and/or destroyed falling
: from a great height.  I'm trying to think of some clever system to ensure that
: this doesn't happen and thought that other folks have probably had these same
: problems and may have worked out solutions.
:
I've built #8-32 "t-nuts" into my last couple of rockets and then made sheet 
metal brackets to hold the motor in.  I drill two holes, 180 degrees apart, in
the aft centering ring and then press and glue the t-nut into the hole.  The 
screw holds the bracket to the centering ring and I bend the bracket so it 
hooks over the end of the motor.  

The t-nut works great but I've made my brackets too wimpy.  Those that saw 
me wandering  around just past the flight line at LDRS a couple weeks
ago, looking for my ejected motor, will know that I have not perfected my
application of this design.

This doesn't help for rockets that are already built since the t-nut goes on 
the "inside" of the centering ring.

Neil Pyke
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Nike v.s. Mosquito
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:12:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: transfer.6102
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1SEP199221101875@vx.cis.umn.edu>, soc1070 writes:
> Over the last 2 summers, I have put 26 flights on a Red Max that is at
> least ten years old. Does that count for anything?
> 
> The other guys in my club are sick of seeing it on the rack...

I still fly the same "Diet Pepsi bottle" rocket that I published plans and
photo of in the 12/80 Model Rocketeer.  There are people sick of seeing
THAT rocket, located all over the United States!
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: Nike v.s. Mosquito
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:50:10 GMT

In article <1SEP199221101875@vx.cis.umn.edu> soc1070                          writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.154428.3642@ringer.cs.utsa.edu>, mdavis@alex (M. Davis) writes...
>
>>When I was younger, I didn't keep track but got at least a dozen flights with
>>successful recoveries out of my first Mosquito.
>
>Over the last 2 summers, I have put 26 flights on a Red Max that is at
>least ten years old. Does that count for anything?

My guess is that the Mosquito is a little easy to lose, since its 
small. So a dozen flights without losing it might be a great accom-
plishment.














-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
From: elder@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Greg Elder)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Astrocam 110 Film
Keywords: 400 speed 110 film still being produced?
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:58:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: ennews.1992Sep2.165814.28661
Organization: Arizona State University

Is it may imagination, or did someone in an old post (about 3-5 months ago)
mention that 400 speed 110 film was no longer being produced?  As a result,
you would have to use 200 speed in the Astrocam.  The reason I ask is that
I was in a local Wal-Mart store last evening, and they had lots of
400 speed 110 film.  Maybe they are getting rid of whatever they have
left (or maybe I am just imagining what I thought I had read months
ago).  If 400 speed is not going to be produced any longer, I'll
go out and buy a few rolls for myself.  (I have an Astrocam 110 but have not
built or flown it yet.)  Thanks.
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu (A. Roger Wilfong)
Subject: Re: HPR motor hooks (was Re: Estes composites, etc...)
Organization: U of Michigan - Information & Networking Services
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 20:30:35 GMT

In article <Btyso6.FnI@mail.boi.hp.com> neil@boi.hp.com (Neil Pyke) writes:
:
>I've built #8-32 "t-nuts" into my last couple of rockets and then made sheet 
>metal brackets to hold the motor in.  I drill two holes, 180 degrees apart, in
>the aft centering ring and then press and glue the t-nut into the hole.  The 
>screw holds the bracket to the centering ring and I bend the bracket so it 
>hooks over the end of the motor.  
>
>The t-nut works great but I've made my brackets too wimpy.  Those that saw 
>me wandering  around just past the flight line at LDRS a couple weeks
>ago, looking for my ejected motor, will know that I have not perfected my
>application of this design.
>
>This doesn't help for rockets that are already built since the t-nut goes on 
>the "inside" of the centering ring.
>
I've used a similar technique with t-nuts and had no problems - yet.  I've also
tried a coarse thread sheet metal type screw (I'm not sure what they're really
called - the threading is about twice as coase as a regular sheet metal screw)
screwed into the rear centering ring at three locations.  The centering ring
needs to be plywood and you need to carefully drill the correct sized pilot
hole for the screw.  After 'tapping' the screw into the hole, I took it out and
ran a small amount of thin CA into the hole for reinforcement - let the CA set
before you put the screw back in the hole or you won't get it out again.  This
has worked on RMS-29 and while it is not as strong as the T-nuts, so far it has
been more reliable than masking tape.
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: HPR motor hooks (was Re: Estes composites, etc...)
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:48:25 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

jsivier@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jonathon Sivier) writes:
: 
:    On this subject, does anyone have any suggestions/recomendations for systems
: to provide positive retention of the motor in the motor mount.  Something like
: the motor hooks used in 18 and 24mm motor mounts, only larger.  Are such things
: available or do you have to roll your own.  Every time I tape a reloadable in
: one of my rockets I think "What if I didn't secure it well enough and it blows
: out instead of deploying the chute?".  If that happens then the rocket is
: destroyed (prang!) and the reloadable motor is lost and/or destroyed falling
: from a great height.  I'm trying to think of some clever system to ensure that
: this doesn't happen and thought that other folks have probably had these same
: problems and may have worked out solutions.

I don't recall if my Aerotech Initiator had a retainer clip. None of my other
kits had them - I had to make my own. Like you, I do not trust taping to hold
the engine in the rocket.

I make a clip similar to the ones used on model rockets - however, I do not
pierce the motor mount tube - I place the front end of the retainer over the
front of the tube. It is epoxied/taped in place, just like with a model
rocket.  I do not rely on spring pressure to hold the clip over the end of
the engine. I use several turns of strapping tape - wrapped around the engine
or motor mount and the retainer clip. So far, I have never had a problem with
an ejected engine.

There are a number of methods that can be used.  Look at the rockets at a
HPR launch - you will see quite a variety, some better than others.

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: barrett@add.itg.ti.com
Subject: RE: RMS engines
Organization: Texas Instruments, Austin, Tx.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 20:19:46 GMT

bo@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Bo Viger) writes:

[stuff deleted about losing reloadable motors]

>> Yep, I get really bummed when I lose a RMS casing.  I lost two in
>> one day once, and it really hurt.  The main thing is that even if you
>> have more rockets, you may not be able to continue launching without
>> your motors

jsivier@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jonathon Sivier ) writes:

[Stuff deleted about motor clips and damaged falling motors}

>> Some folks have already posted various methods.  I drill two holes in
>> the aft casing and use steel wire to attach the engine to the aft
>> bulkhead.  If you plan ahead, then you can add t-nuts to the
>> aft bulkhead when your building the model, else you have to use
>> threaded WOOD screw eyes and make sure they are epoxied in real good.

>> BTW, the RMS engines are pretty sturdy, I've never seen one hit the
>> ground (not concrete!) and be damaged.  I put a little too much
>> ejection charge in my Loc Caliber (and my baffle was a little dirty)
>> at LDRS and it spit the 54mm 825 motor out at 7400' (parachute
>> deployed though :-). I found it (it still was attached to the WOOD
>> screw eyes!) with no damage.  This was the only time I've spit out an
>> engine using this method.  The t-nuts with METAL screw eyes are much
>> sturdier.  I hope that everyone realizes that the METAL vs WOOD
>> refers to the threading NOT the material (they both are made of metal
>> ;-).

Stu Barrett  TRA#1277  NAR# 4341
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: svoboda@rtsg.mot.com (David Svoboda)
Subject: Re: Micro Video
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:23:17 GMT

In article <5993@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
|In article <POPAT.92Aug28114243@image.mit.edu>, popat@image.mit.edu (Kris Popat) writes:
|
|> 3. How does the AMA feel about flying an RC plane via video
|> transmitter and ground-based receiver/monitor?
|
|What, you mean AMA insurance doesn't cover IFR?  :-)

I have talked to an AMA insurance rep a couple of times to ask about
the insurance applicability to some of the fun fly events that I and
my clubmates have dreamed up.  To date, regardless of what event we
wanted to have, the answer has been (can you guess?)  NO.

I bet that C/L Navy Carrier wouldn't be covered, if it weren't in
the rule book already.

		Dave Svoboda, Palatine, IL
Xref: sparky rec.models.rockets:2406 rec.models.rc:3621