HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Insults
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:58:58 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

Ah! To watch the master at work.  

He opens...

adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes [quoting some psycho-babble]:

>>"Although many denigrations stem from, and perpetuate,
>>collective self-hatred, at least some undermine the
>>oppressive cognitive structure, attacking those who deny the
>>group."

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, that's all *one* sentence.  I have tried,
several times, to figure out what the spook means by 'undermine the
oppressive cognitive structure.'  To undermine is to make weaker,
yes?  Does he mean to imply that the denigrations are an attempt to
escape from the oppression of others - by, in effect, substituting
an oppression from within the sub-culture itself?  Has the Marquise
(I think I shall stick with Marquise, rather than Madmoiselle, in
reference to The Grand Faggot) misquoted, and perhaps used the word
'undermine' for what should be 'underpin' - whereby the denigrations
would therefore become a force used to define an 'acceptable' 
structure of behavior within the sub-culture?  Tools, as it were,
to punish those who *didn't* belong?

I confess, my mind is weak.  The spook has succeeded with his 
smokescreen.  The psyc-speak doth confound me.

In any event, the Marquise has posted a piece describing, quite
closely, the ebb and flow of discourse in these here parts.  The
*thrust* of the piece seems to be that we take delight in sniping
at each other.

The Marquise continues, in a discussion with another:

The other -

>> If we're talking about homophobes, then as Pogo was made say,
>> "We have met the enemy and he is us."

The Marquise -

>Bullshit.

The other -

>> Internalized homophobia is tenacious.  Bob is just exhibiting one form of it.

The Marquise -

>And he has proved himself to be beyond help.

The other -

>> Bob is just as much manipulated as poor whites who were taught to 
>> treat blacks poorly.  

The Marquise -

>Give me a fuckin' break.

The other -

>> Explanation and education, not insult and ostracism should be the 
>> order of the day.

The Marquise - (master stroke)

>Fuck off, asshole.


Now, if we should include the four of five posts which did follow
forth from a type (the Maroon string...), we have one denigration
after another.  All originating from a post pointing out the high
level of invective common in closed sub-societies.

Truly, *sublime*  Given the august station of la Marquise du West
Hollywood, I'm sure she recognized - and even planned - the 
overwhelming irony of the whole thing.  

*Encore* darling, *encore*


Again, *most* humbly,

Matthew Melmon
Apple Computer, Inc
I don't call the shots
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Mpls./St Paul (was: Just please shoot me :))
Date: 27 Aug 92 03:54:51 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Aug26.223829.6989@medtron.medtronic.com>
cc0001@medtronic.COM (Christopher Carriero) writes:

>Unfortunately, I know nothing about Rochester, MN, but do know 
>quite a bit about the Twin Cities.  Yes, it is very gay affirmative
>here.  Minneapolis has domestic partnership laws as well as anti-
>discrimination laws.  St Paul has anti-discrimination laws as well.

I thought the St. Paul law was overturned in a subsequent action
of some kind.  Do I misremember, or was it subsequently reinstated,
or what?

>I could swear not a day goes by without hearing something about the
>gay and lesbian community on the local news.  Twin Citians are 
>really tuned into the gay and lesbian community.

Sure seems so.  In the years I used to visit my mother
there, I met a lot of very nice people.  I think it's
especially known for a large and friendly lesbian community.
I actually know less about the gay men, as a group.


<> It's important to study and understand what the nazis
<> did in addition to trying to exterminate Jewish people.
<> They also had an entire anti-feminist program, they
<> appealed to "aryan" folk culture, they outlawed abortion,
<> they were violently anti-queer, they promoted "family
<> values", they hated immigrants, they lashed out against
<>  "obscenity", they banned artwork, and the list goes on.
<> The funny thing is, most of those things are also currently
<> on the right-wing agenda in the U.S.  Gee, i wonder why?
<> -- Graham Herrick (Graham.T.Herrick@dartmouth.edu)
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: memorial wishes
Date: 23 Aug 92 19:04:26 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <64496@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>I feel that if someone wants their death to be celebrated in a certain way,
>it should be done as *exactly* as possible, without addition or
>improvisation.

Gawd, a strict constructionist.

>At the risk of starting that eternal flame war
>again, I don't see drag queens of any type at this event; you're
>perfectly welcome to have as many as you want at yours.

Well, what are gay bikers, if not drag queens of a sort?

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Jay and Arsenio on gay issues
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 17:50:05 GMT

In article <174e0gINNpkg@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:

>What's the big deal? I mean, would you have preferred that he devote the
>rest of the interview to Sir Ian being queer?

Politics aside (how many times have I said *that* before?) it is not
the hallmark of a good interviewer to sideskirt a topic that is
obviously very important to your subject simply because you find it
personally distasteful or "controversial."

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "I don't know how much support NAMBLA
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  has in the gay community."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Clayton Cramer, August 1992
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: How evil are the Republicans?
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 17:55:42 GMT

In article <71493@apple.Apple.COM> mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew Melmon) writes:

>And while I agree with Quayle's attack on the 'Cultural Elite' - I doubt
>it was his original conception.  I am *not* in the 11%.

Or even in the 10%, judging from your remarks.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "I don't know how much support NAMBLA
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  has in the gay community."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Clayton Cramer, August 1992
From: jclander@texas.mitre.org (Julian C. Lander)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Snaps (no, not *that* kind, Elizabeth) (was Re: New queer terminology) (was Re: The media, again)
Date: 26 Aug 92 19:57:28 GMT
Reply-To: jclander@texas.mitre.org (Julian C. Lander)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, Va

(Forgive me for going off on a tangent.  But...)

In article <1992Aug26.182206.9045@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
|> 
|> You are adressing the wrong parties.  I am aged, X was the
|> windbag, and you are the asshole.
|>

Is this the new conjugation provided for the verb "to pontificate"?
     I am aged                        We are aged
     You are an asshold               You are assholes
     She/he/it is a windbag           They are windbags

I shall place it along the masculine and feminine conjugations of
"to be gay/lesbian".  (If I remember correctly, the masculine is "I am gay,
you are queer [this predates the reclamation of 'queer'], and 
she is a screaming queen. [She may be p.i., but it's what I originally
hear, so I'm quoting it.]"  I've forgotten the second person for
women, but I think that the others were "I am lesbian" and 
"She is a stomping dyke.")

Distressed by the tone of the thread, but amused by
the new verb,
Julian C. Lander
jclander@mitre.org
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Folsom ST Fair
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 07:28:08 GMT


stephena@netcom.com (Stephen Arrants) writes:

>In article <1992Sep1.170835.9873@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>>>>I don't think there's a place which serves peanut butter and jelly sammiches
>>>>AND has room for 40+ leatherfolk. :-)
>>>I'll check the SF Board of Education and see what the schools have on the
>>>menu that week.
>>Great image.
>
>Well, what other place has PBJ sandwiches *AND* can seat 40+?
>Who want's to be lunchroom monitor?

Oh god, we're going to turn hairnets into fetish garb...

--
John Dorrance  * Don't fuck with Ms. Congeniality *  thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

	Every jumbled pile of person has a thinking part that wonders
	     what the part that isn't thinking isn't thinking of
From: flar@bendenweyr.Eng.Sun.COM (Jim Graham)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Quilt
Date: 31 Aug 1992 03:34:37 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: flar@bendenweyr.Eng.Sun.COM (Jim Graham)
NNTP-Posting-Host: bendenweyr

First I would like to point out two purposes for the Aids Memorial
Quilt.  It serves both as a reminder to everyone of the enormity of
the problem - making visible the names of all of the individuals who
have died - and it also serves as a grief mechanism for the *friends*
of the deceased.

In particular, I remember one scene in the documentary about the DC
showing of the quilt where a gay man was talking about the quilt panel
he had made for his lover.  He said, "He would have hated it.  I
got the stars under his name all uneven.  He would have worked hard
and not stopped until they were perfectly even.  That was his way.
But I can't do that kind of thing, so it will just have to be uneven."

IMHO, the quilt itself does not pay any tribute to any dead person,
it pays tribute to the love of the living for those who have died.

Second I would like to say that I would never seek to have any input
into my own memorial services (when and ?if? they are ever necessary).
Those memorial services are for the friends I leave behind to deal
with their own feelings.  Anything else is too much like writing
lists of what I want for my birthday.  If they wish to have a service
that I would have liked, then that is great, but the motivation is
really to enhance their own memories of me, not to please the "dead
me".

				...jim
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:36:05 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Aug25.142735.381@mcs.gvsu.edu>
orr@perlis.mcs.gvsu.edu (Wes Orr {Academic Computing})
writes:

>One of the rules, however, is that you cannot refer to each
>other using feminine pronouns.  I like that a lot.

Well, dude, I think you've established that rules are just
about your favorite things.  Lemme tell ya, girlfriend (not
a feminine pronoun, please note), I think you and a lot of
other crypto-fascists are trying to get us all killed.  And
I really *hate* that!

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Folsom ST Fair
Date: Tue,  1 Sep 92 20:28:34 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <jtjnzkg.stephena@netcom.com> <1992Sep1.170835.9873@spdcc.com>
  <-zjnncj.stephena@netcom.com>

Stephen Arrants writes:
>Well, what other place has PBJ sandwiches *AND* can seat 40+?

And it only goes to show just how very, **VERY** little Mr. Dyer
knows that this is based in another one of his fuckups. I no more
eat "peanut butter and jelly sammiches" than I do Szechuan food
or old tractor tires.
 
() The highest purpose is to have no purpose at all.
()      -- John Cage
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rickc@agora.rain.com (Rick Coates)
Subject: Re: Prevalence of Tom?
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 23:00:20 GMT

shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:


>More importantly, I think, is that [Tom] has completely bought
>into the notion that you're only entitled to your rights if 
>you're popular, and he's asking you to buy into it, too.  He'd 
>much rather participate in the marginalization of those who 
>are different than put effort into ending it.  He thinks it's
>politically important to be liked, as if there's a committee
>out there who will protect his job, his housing, etc. if he
>bends over really, really far and lets the bigots have their 
>way with him.

AKA 'Tom' per az.

What I want to know is how prevalent is this (Tom) attitude, in practice?

I was milling about with a group of 'political' folk due to a missed 
meeting change notice.  They asked about the difference between the
group we were waiting for and another in town (and why there were
two, but that's another issue).  When I said that this group was more
'grassroots' and the other more 'hierarchical', they all immediately
assumed that this group was more like ACT-UP and Queer Nation, and
therefore more 'in your face' (their words and reasoning).

I'm glad I was standing to the side as they stampeded toward the other
group.  No discussion necessary.

Rick
rickc@agora.rain.com
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: musical finale
Date: 28 Aug 92 08:36:27 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

Well, I've been out and bought the Durufle Requiem,
and it's a little, um, *lush* for my tastes
(but I'm listening to it more, so I get used to it).
I think Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms suits me better.
(There's a good exercise for your lisp.)

If I wanted a *big* production,
I'd request Havergal Brian's Symphony No. 1 (the "Gothic").
-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"*Pooter* n. a petit bourgeois, conventional and unimaginative"
-- Chambers English Dictionary (1988)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: carlson@ab24.larc.nasa.gov (Ann Carlson)
Subject: Re: Gravely Mixed Up
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 12:57:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug29.031721.8152@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
|> 
|> In a long article I won't bother to cite, John Graves, who
|> is a Christian minister, says, of me:
|>      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Unitarian, not Christian.  Some, but not all, Unitarians are Christian. 
Unitarianism is a much more all-encompasing philosophy. 
-- 



*************************************************      
*Dr. Ann B. Carlson (carlson@ab24.larc.nasa.gov)*       O .
*MS 366                                         *         o  _///_ //
*NASA Langley Research Center                   *          <`)=  _<<
*Hampton, VA 23681-0001                         *             \\\  \\
*************************************************
From: "paul bobbitt" <paul.bobbitt@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: move to canada, eh?
Date: 26 Aug 92 10:52:57 EST
Reply-To: "paul bobbitt" <paul.bobbitt@canrem.com>
Distribution: soc
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

I turned on CNN last night, and couldn't help but notice that your
country is up to it's ears in Republicans.

Just thought I'd mention that Canada's Human Rights Code was
just declared unconstitutional by an Ontario Court of Appeals because
it does not offer protection to people for reasons of sexual 
orientation.  This means that they will probably rewrite the law to 
allow for protection of homosexuals.  In fact, Ontario and three other provinces 
already have legislation in place to protect Gays and Lesbians.

Given that fact, perhaps some of you exhausted American Gays should
consider visiting Canada for the next 10 years or so.  We'd love to
have you, and it probably won't be long before same sex marriages are
allowed up here, so we could get you across the border that way...

So, how 'bout it?  Come to the cold country with the warm heart!

Paul D. Bobbitt
---
  DeLuxe 1.25 #7722  >>>  2QT2BSTR8  <<<   paul.bobbitt@canrem.com
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard)
Subject: Quilt overlap
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 04:21:01 GMT

I just got mail saying that the quilt would be displayed on Oct 10th.
Do people have any other suggestions for dates? Are there any major
things happening the next weekend? Oct 17th or so would put it closer
to the elections.

-- 
>>Unix/C Contract worker available 5 years C/unix work experience<<  ______
Available for Telecommuting/Travel and contracts on the T Line       \    /
in the Boston MA area. Send me e-mail for a copy of my Resume.        \  /
       -- VWIS 508-793-9568 (2400 baud), Linux support BBS.--          \/
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Color Me Out of Here
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:09:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Sep1.200922.2635
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <paecoa4@fido.asd.sgi.com> pauli@uniblab.asd.sgi.com (Paul Isaacs) writes:
>Has anyone heard anything about Barbra Streisand's recent statement?
>Apparently, she has said that if George Bush wins the election,
>she is leaving the country and moving to London.  She claims that George
>is another Hitler.

I'm with Bab's on this one.  There are times when there seems little
to convince me to bug outta here and let the bastards have it. 

Although I had Denmark in mind.  They're rather progressive about gay
folk over there.  I however, given my hue, might stick out like a sore
thumb.  Anyway, at least I have a friend who (I think) is living there
now.



-- 
"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
			-Joseph Beam_
Terrance Heath 
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu
From: tdbear@tandon.com (Tom Barrett)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Jeans (was Re: Rob Bernardo)
Date: 31 Aug 92 18:51:19 GMT
Organization: Tandon Corporation, Moorpark, CA

In article <92240.145751IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>does this mean that men don't use toilet paper?  wow...

I tend to use it at home (and others homes), but when you're
out and about it's the old jiggle and milk it out :)

-- 
Tom Barrett (TDBear)    tdbear@tandon.com          voice: 805-378-6207
Tandon Corporation      609 Science Drive          Moorpark, CA  93021 
Sr. HW Design Engineer  "War is Peace, No is Yes, And We're All Free!" 
-=>NOTE:  The feed to tdbear@tandon.com may be interrupted in Sept.<=-
From: jf@threel.co.uk (John Fisher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: German Neo-Nazis bomb Holocaust memorial
Date: 2 Sep 92 12:44:40 GMT
Organization: 3L Ltd, 86/92 Causewayside, Edinburgh EH9 1PY, UK


In article <1992Sep1.040857.15713@s1.gov>,
lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:

> 	There's the interesting historical curiosity that some of the
> early Nazis, such as Ernst Roehm (head of the SA), were gay. But when
> Hitler came to power, homophobia became the Party Line. I remember
> reading somewhere that Hitler personally executed Roehm after he took
> over despite Roehm's being a colleague and close personal friend.

Hitler didn't personally kill Roehm, though Roehm asked for
this. 

There are extreme right-wing groups active in most western
European countries at present.  I think the German
situation, nasty though it is, shouldn't be exaggerated.  A
country which has admitted half a million foreign refugees
in the last year, and which looks like admitting another
250000 before the end of 1992, can scarcely be regarded as
in the grip of official xenophobia.

Certainly some of the other European countries who (with
some reason) regard Germany warily, have little cause to
boast of their own open-heartedness.  The UK, for example,
has so far admitted a grand total of 1200 refugees from the
Balkans, about two hundred times less than Germany.  France,
which has an extreme right-wing party far larger than all
the German Nazi groups put together, has admitted about the
same. 

Sure, there are Nazis in Germany, and they make my flesh
creep too.  There's also the most articulate and vigorous
anti-Nazi movement in Europe.  I certainly don't subscribe
to the notion that Nazism is a hereditary taint on the
German nation, and I personally think (may I not be wrong!)
that they are probably one of the least likely countries to
succumb to that particular poison again. 

--John
From: urso@spdcc.com (Stephen Chappell)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: move to canada, eh?
Date: 29 Aug 92 21:34:34 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In <1992Aug26.941.54425@dosgate> "paul bobbitt" <paul.bobbitt@canrem.com> writes:
>Just thought I'd mention that Canada's Human Rights Code was
>just declared unconstitutional by an Ontario Court of Appeals because
>it does not offer protection to people for reasons of sexual 
>orientation.  This means that they will probably rewrite the law to 
>allow for protection of homosexuals.  In fact, Ontario and three other provinces 
>already have legislation in place to protect Gays and Lesbians.

>Given that fact, perhaps some of you exhausted American Gays should
>consider visiting Canada for the next 10 years or so.  We'd love to
>have you, and it probably won't be long before same sex marriages are
>allowed up here, so we could get you across the border that way...

>So, how 'bout it?  Come to the cold country with the warm heart!
>Paul D. Bobbitt
   
Well, once I find a way, this exhausted American Gay will be on his
way to Toronto.  Unfortunately, the Canadian government doesn't make
it easy to move up there.
 
I'd like to move up there, but I don't want to have to wait for Canada
to legalise gay marriages so I can move up there as the spouse of a
Canadian citizen. 
 
Has anyone else out there had to deal with the difficulties of having
a spouse/fiance on the other side of the international border?
 
[] Urso

-- 
[] Stephen Chappell (a.k.a. "Urso")
[] urso@ursa-major.spdcc.com
[] 15 Walker Street, Powder House Square   
[] Somerville, MA 02144-1622, USA
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Folsom ST Fair
Date: Tue,  1 Sep 92 08:45:29 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <65039@cup.portal.com> <1992Sep1.042746.12576@spdcc.com>

Steve Dyer whines:
>The fact that you despise Chinese food has nothing to do with it, George, eh?

Totally wrong.  I just don't like *SZECHUAN* food, and I see no
reason whatsoever for soc.motss gatherings to be locked into one
particular cuisine.

>I don't think there's a place which serves peanut butter and jelly sammiches
>AND has room for 40+ leatherfolk. :-)

Steve, do you have to *work* at being this big an asshole or were
you born this way?

 
() I am free of all prejudice. I hate everyone equally.
()      -- W.C. Fields
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]