From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Ritual Magick Experiences
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 22:08:27 GMT

mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf) writes:




>>In actual fact, it would seem that you are the one who is deluded.  You
>>presume that a practicing ritual magician actually cares whether or not
>>you believe him.  Or anyone else for that matter. 

>Fine, all I'm saying is that as far as I am concerned, give me some evidence
>if you want me to believe what you are saying.

I don't want to convert you to believing in magic or my religion.  I have a
thing against proseltysing (sp).  If you decide *on your own* that magic is
worthwhile, I would be happy for you.  But I would hope that no one ever
decided that magic was "true" because of what *I* say.

>>"scientific" method on a form of art seems patently ridiculous!  You
>>might as well try and "replicate the results" of Da Vinci or Picasso as
>>to try and duplicate a ritual performed by an adept in the pursuit of
>>his own true will.

>At least Da Vinci and Picasso present the results of their art to the
>world.

My life is the results of my Craft.  If you meet me, then you can see my
Craft in manifest form.  If a group was discussing painting, would you
demand to see their work in GIF form?  Would the painters feel that they
ought to provide you with them?

>>  
>>So, if you must assume that anyone who refuses to discuss very personal
>>things publicly is a charlatan and not to be trusted...  Then you will
>>find that this newsgroup above all others is stuffed full of charlatans
>>and liars!  There, now you can go and put on your smug facade of
>>superiority and tell everyone you can get to listen "I knew they were
>>just a bunch of fakers!"  {Meanwhile, the true magician sits back with a
>>small knowing smile upon his lips.}

>Look if it turns you on to stay in the closet then do so, but don't
>be suprised if the rest of the world considers you to be a maniac, because
>like it or not, society as a whole tends to treat people that are 
>secretive with suspicion.  Since Homosexuals have come out of the closet,
>they are more accepted than they used to be.

Hmm, it is obvious that you are straight from your use of "they".  I am
Queer!  This culture does *not* accept me.  However, since I am open, I end
up only associating with those who will.  There ahs been some improvement,
but just being open is not going to solve the world's problems.  I am also
open about the fact that I practice magic.  However, I do think that anyone's
mind will be changed by anything I type.  Again, people have to *meet* me.
This is how real change has occurred.  If you would like to come to Urbana, 
IL, I would be happy to "do coffee" with you sometime--but I will not try to
convince you that magic works, just that I am a decent human being.  You 
might even enjoy my company.  But not if you are abusive of me or mine--I
can be a very defensive bitch. 

BTW, I am not secretive about *anything* in my life.  But if I cannot put 
something into words, I will not say anything on the net.  In person, I can
work with individuals to bridge the gaps in our language.  The real heart
of my magic is mysticism, which is beyond words.  (That is what the Greek
word meant, as well.)  If I *could* put it into words, I would, but if I 
could put my experiences into words, then I must be doing *something
wrong*.  


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Weird! :-)