HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shaw+@CS.CMU.EDU (Mary Shaw)
Subject: Re: Pittsburgh area whitewater partner(s) wanted
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University
Distribution: rec.boats.paddle
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 16:31:41 GMT

The two major Pittsburgh paddling groups are Three Rivers Paddling
Club and the Pittsburgh Council of American Youth Hostels.

TRPC is canoeing-only, has no club equipment.  AYH has a wide-spectrum
outing program and has rental canoes, kayaks, rafts.  Both have
instructional programs.

Sorry, but I don't have contact information in the office.  Send
e-mail to mary.shaw@cs.cmu.edu if no one else sends it to you.

Get the Canoeing Guide to Western PA for comprehensive coverage.
Use the Corps of Engineers bboard to get gauge readings (644-6562,
certainly 1200,2400 baud; 9600 baud with the right protocol).  The
Corps bboard has virtually not trip-organization traffic; it's mostly
about gauge interpretation.

Mary Shaw
From: whitaker@verdi.cs.unc.edu (Ross Whitaker)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: squirt boating on the decline? (or am I missing something?)
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:04:28 GMT
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

In article <1992Aug25.201555.26149@gumby.cc.wmich.edu> peirce@gumby.cc.wmich.edu (Leonard J. Peirce) writes:

>I saw a writeup in Canoe magazine about a plastic squirt boat developed
>by a company in the UK.  I was able to see one at Roger Scott's shop down
>at the Ocoee and it looked pretty nice.  The price was reasonable (I think
>the guy said $495).  I *almost* whipped out the plastic and bought one but
>then reality took over and I was satisfied with some 7mm climbing rope.
>Anyone paddle one of these yet?


I think that you are talking about a boat called the 'enigma'.  I have had
several opportunities to paddle them and they are really very nice.  The
design is great, the price is right, and the plastic is a major advantage.
They come in great colors - bright pink, green, and purple.

There a couple of disadvantages to this boat over conventional (fiber) squirt
boats (squirt boats ... conventional?).  First is size.  I weigh 180 pounds
and this boat is a little too much volume to do some of the more extreme 
squirt moves (cart wheels, mystery moves, etc.).  It does most of the standard
moves just fine.  I would not recommend this boat to anyone who weighs much 
less than I do, or who wants to get seriously into squirting.  REAL squirt 
boats can be 'cut' to the size of the user.  Second is the weight.  It weighs 
slightly less than a Dancer, but more than most fiber squirt boats. 

All in all, however, I think that they did a great job with this boat.

	Ross
From: atb@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Andy Brown)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 18:53:27 GMT
Subject: Re: Blue?  How is it?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle

In rec.boats.paddle, sylvia@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Sylvia Budak) writes:

> 
>  
>    A couple friends and I were thinking of doing the Blue in Colorado in the
> near future, but none of us have run it before.  One member of our party 
> does class III with some class IV.   My other friend and I have just started
> kayaking this year and do class II with some class III.  Does anyone know
> what the river is rated at for various flow-rates?  What would be a good 
> section for us to do?  Is it too much for first-year boaters?  We all like 
> surfing and pop-ups :-), although only the more experienced member of our party
> is any good at it. 
> 
> Thanks in advance for any information,
> 
> Sylvia

The blue, hmm lets see what it is running .... 778 cfs.
The best section of the blue is a pretty class III canyon just below
green mountain reservoir.  The water tends to be damn cold, even this
time of year.  I don't think you'll find very many pop up spots, but I think
that there is one or two good side surfing holes at this level.
A couple of years ago, I took a novice down that section.  He didn't have
many problems (he didn't have a roll, only swam once).
There is really only one rapid to worry about.  I think it is about a mile
or so down stream,  the river constricts, curves to the left
 and creates a long line of standing waves ... fun.

The other sections of the blue tend to be more mellow, although there may
not be enough water in them to run (mostly class IIish).
Doug Wheats (sp) book describes the runs in more detail.

Have fun,
andy "okay, i know there are a couple of class V runs you can do for 5
   months out of the year (i.e. bailey, gore, poudre narrows) in
   colorado, but where the hell are the good play spots in september" brown
From: peirce@gumby.cc.wmich.edu (Leonard J. Peirce)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: squirt boating on the decline? (or am I missing something?)
Date: 25 Aug 92 20:15:55 GMT
Organization: Western Michigan University Academic Computing Services

I was at the Ocoee last week and while the water was great and the weather
was so-so I did notice a surprising lack of squirt boaters the whole time
I was there.  Last year when I was there (Labor Day) I saw a number of
squirt boaters.

When I started thinking about it I really haven't seen that many squirt
boaters this entire year.  Is squirt boating not as popular as it once
was or am I just paddling the wrong rivers?

I've never tried a squirt boat but I'm thinking about buying/making one
for next year.  Before I do that, anyone have any recommendations for
what boat(s) they like?

I saw a writeup in Canoe magazine about a plastic squirt boat developed
by a company in the UK.  I was able to see one at Roger Scott's shop down
at the Ocoee and it looked pretty nice.  The price was reasonable (I think
the guy said $495).  I *almost* whipped out the plastic and bought one but
then reality took over and I was satisfied with some 7mm climbing rope.
Anyone paddle one of these yet?

--
Leonard J. Peirce               Internet:  peirce@mickey.acs.wmich.edu
Western Michigan University                peirce@gw.wmich.edu
University Computing Services
Kalamazoo, MI  49008            Phone:     (616) 387-5469

Let us labor at thinking clearly; herein lies the source of moral conduct.
						- Pascal
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy)
Subject: Re: Info on Cleveland WW Clubs Needed
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 13:54:04 GMT


Andy, the West Virginia Wildwater Association is a good group to get in to.
I joined.  I also belong to Amercian Whitewater Association and they have
a list of affiliates listed, I'll see if I can find anything listed for
your new area.  WV whitewater is awesome.  I usually kayak but went rafting
for the first time this weekend on the lower New....what a blast.  When are
you moving btw?
From: wphnat01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu (William P. Hnat)
Subject: Re: Info on Cleveland WW Clubs Needed
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 11:28:05 GMT
 
Organization: University of Louisville
From: smmyers@pbhyg.PacBell.COM (Sean M. Myers)
Subject: Re: Advice on Purchasing a kayak
Reply-To: smmyers@PacBell.COM (Sean M. Myers)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 18:54:53 GMT


Can anyone suggest a kayak for a big guy ?  

Height:  6' 3 1/2" 
Weight:  290 lbs.

  I'm a beginner to kayaking, so I don't really need the "sport" model.
It would most likely be used for fishing, goofing around,  etc.

Thanks,


  -+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+-
  + Sean M. Myers (smmyers@pbhyg.PacBell.COM)| Sweater, n.:                 +
  = Systems Analyst                          |      A garment worn by       =
  + Operator Services                        |      a child when its        +
  = Software Engineering and Maintenance     |      mother feels            =
  + Pacific Bell SRV, CA. USA                |      chilly.                 +
  -+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+-
  +   Sex without love is an empty experience,    |                         +
  =   but, as empty experiences go,               |                         =
  +   it's one of the best.     -- Woody Allen    |                         +
  -+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+-
From: twc@hpfcbig.SDE.HP.COM (Tom Christian)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:16:53 GMT
Subject: Re: kevlar canoes
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle


	My wife and I have a Mad River Kevlar Explorer that we have used
	on lakes and rivers for five years or so, mostly associated with
	fly fishing.  We are delighted with it, and would replace it with
	the same thing if we needed to do so -- but it shows no signs of
	needing to be replaced.  Reduced weight was one of the reasons we
	bought it, and every time we use it we applaud the wisdom of that
	decision.  It's also quiet (vs. aluminum), strong, stiff, and has
	an effective compromise between white-water maneuverability and
	flat-water tracking.  Great boat.  But they're not cheap.

					Tom Christian
					Hewlett-Packard Co.


From: atb@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Andy Brown)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 16:40:14 GMT
Subject: Re: squirt boating on the decline? (or am I missing something?)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle

In rec.boats.paddle, peirce@gumby.cc.wmich.edu (Leonard J. Peirce) writes:

... stuff deleted
> I've never tried a squirt boat but I'm thinking about buying/making one
> for next year.  Before I do that, anyone have any recommendations for
> what boat(s) they like?
> 
> I saw a writeup in Canoe magazine about a plastic squirt boat developed
> by a company in the UK.  I was able to see one at Roger Scott's shop down
> at the Ocoee and it looked pretty nice.  The price was reasonable (I think
> the guy said $495).  I *almost* whipped out the plastic and bought one but
> then reality took over and I was satisfied with some 7mm climbing rope.
> Anyone paddle one of these yet?

There is a distributor for that plastic boat out here in twin lakes, colorado.
I demoed one of them last june on the arkansas.  I could stern squirt okay,
but anything else ... forget it.  The biggest problem for me was size,
it was just to big for me.  My guess is that it is cut for someone around
190 or 200lbs.

I just got back from the Shoshone run on the Colorado where I paddled my almost virgin new Prize for the weekend.  I highly recomend this boat.  I started
squirting on a Jet (#33) that was too big for me, and really couldn't do
anything with it.  The prize is really nice.  I mystery moved it the first time
out.  Cartwheels are a breeze.  The only problem with it is that its hull speed
kind of sucks (Understandable since it is so short).  I had a rough time
catching some waves that weren't that difficult in the Jet.  
Running rapids proved to be interesting as well.  Out of control seems to
sum it up best for me.  People tell me that I will get my shit together
pretty quick, but for now it is like learning to paddle all over again.
For those that are a little heavier-taller than me, New Wave recomends the
Bigfoot ... overall a little bit bigger than the Prize (basically the same hull)

If any of you Colorado boaters start getting into squirt boating, give me a
call.  So far I've only me about 10 squirt boaters in the whole damn state.


ciao,
andy

atb@hpfcrd.fc.hp.com
From: gordon@sequent.com (Gordon Pennington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Recommendations for canoe trips in Oregon/Washington?
Date: 25 Aug 92 19:53:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Aug25.195304.11723
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

Subject line says it all. Looking for recommendations for primarily
1-day canoe trips in the northwest. Interested in gentle whitewater or 
float-on-the-river-with-the-family trips. 
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy)
Subject: Re: Wanted: New Zealand info
Keywords: new zealand, awa
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 14:22:24 GMT


I second that on AWA, I recently joined but have a few of their back issues.
They need volunteers to help at the Gauley Fest too if anyone is heading
that way and can donate a few hours, you get free admission.  I'll be
selling raffle tickets for a few hours, look me up if your around eh.
From: gra@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Kleeper Sail for Sale
Date: 3 Sep 92 13:35:25 GMT
Reply-To: gra@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Organization: Computer Center, CUNY Graduate School, New York NY 10036

I have a full Kleeper sail rig availabale including leeboards, main, jib 
and mast for sale.  New price for this stuff is $990 and I'm asking $775.
Please E-Mail if interested.

Eric Graig
CUNY Graduate Center
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: shaw+@CS.CMU.EDU (Mary Shaw)
Subject: Re: Whitewater footwear
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 16:36:37 GMT

Among your goals you forgot.. "protect your feet from hazards of the
river and trail".   No sandal can do this without neoprene socks,
and neoprene boots are less nuisance than neoprene socks plus something
else.

Since my Patagonia reef walkers (sock top, felt sole, rubber caps for
toe and heel) died, I've been using neoprene boots all summer.  When
my feet get warm I put them in the water.  When it's very cold I use
neoprene socks under neoprene boots ...

Mary Shaw
From: Christic Institute <christic@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Date: 29 Aug 92 12:59 PDT
Subject: Info on Cleveland WW Clubs Needed
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1450000011:000:693
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!christic    Aug 29 12:59:00 1992


Does anyone have contact names, phone numbers for paddling or
whitewater clubs in Cleveland, Ohio?

I'll be moving to Cleveland this fall.  The city is a reasonably
close to rivers in West Virginia.  Any information on clubs in the
Cleveland area will be much appreciated.

Andy Lang

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Lang              401251507 UI                         telex
Christic Institute       christic                          PeaceNet
8773 Venice Boulevard    christic@igc.apc.org              Internet
Los Angeles, CA 90034    uunet!pyramid!cdp!christic            UUCP
310-287-1556 voice       cdp!christic%labrea@stanford        Bitnet

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: root@ute.Columbia.NCR.COM ()
Subject: Re: squirt boating on the decline? (or am I missing something?)
Summary: Nope!
Organization: NCR Corp, E&M-Columbia, Columbia, SC
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 20:36:30 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.201555.26149@gumby.cc.wmich.edu>
   peirce@gumby.cc.wmich.edu (Leonard J. Peirce) writes:
> When I started thinking about it I really haven't seen that many squirt
> boaters this entire year.  Is squirt boating not as popular as it once
> was or am I just paddling the wrong rivers?

Well, I know a lot of people who just started paddling squirt boats this
past year (myself included), so my perception is that it's becoming more
popular.

> I've never tried a squirt boat but I'm thinking about buying/making one
> for next year.  Before I do that, anyone have any recommendations for
> what boat(s) they like?

The Bigfoot (from New Wave) is very popular around here.  It seems to be
really good at transitions and mystery moves.  (My friend won first place
in the Intermediate division of the Ocoee rodeo in his.  It was his first
rodeo!)  And I still see a lot of T-Birds, ProJets, and Jets.

> I saw a writeup in Canoe magazine about a plastic squirt boat developed
> by a company in the UK.  I was able to see one at Roger Scott's shop down
> at the Ocoee and it looked pretty nice.  The price was reasonable (I think
> the guy said $495).

I saw this boat at Roger Scott's also; I wasn't very impressed.  I suggest
looking for a used boat.  My Jet cost half what the plastic boat cost, and
it was in great shape.  There should be lots of boats for sale at the NOC's
Customer Appreciation event in October (and at Gauley Fesitval next month?).

Barry Shelton                                        Question Authority!
barry@ute.columbiasc.ncr.com                   Resist much, obey little.

Standard disclaimer.

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: squirt boating on the decline? (or am I mis
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:05:24 GMT

In article 26149@gumby.cc.wmich.edu, peirce@gumby.cc.wmich.edu (Leonard J. Peirce) writes:
>
>I saw a writeup in Canoe magazine about a plastic squirt boat developed
>by a company in the UK.  I was able to see one at Roger Scott's shop down
>at the Ocoee and ...  Anyone paddle one of these yet?
>
Yes.  It's all right, but I still plan on getting a glass one.

--Chris
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Wanted: New Zealand info
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:09:49 GMT

I will have the oppotunity to be in New Zealand from
December 26 - January 8th.  I would like to spend that
2 weeks paddling.  Does anyone have information on
places to rent equipment, or contacts down there?
Is it easy to find boaters to hook up with?  Will
I need to rent a car?  What should I bring (my own
paddle & spray deck)?  And any other questions I
forgot to ask.

--Chris		websterc@ncar.ucar.edu
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Wanted: small drybag w/ straps
Date: 31 Aug 1992 23:13:17 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

I'm looking for a one-person overnight drybag with pack straps.
The NRS Bill's Bag 2.2 and the Cascade Outfitters small Drybag
come close, but both are slightly too long.  With bivvy tent,
Thermarest, down sleeping bag, stove, clothing, and food, all
my stuff doesn't fill the drybag enough to make it watertight.
(Pack straps are a requirement for portaging.)

Could anybody recommend a product and vendor?
From: phil@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Phil English)
Subject: <<<HELP, SATNAV MANUAL>>>
Keywords: <<<HELP, SATNAV MANUAL>>>
Organization: Lockheed Santa Cruz, CA.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 21:46:17 GMT

	I have a Walker "Sat Nav 560 auto", made in GB. The Mfr is 
Polytechnic Electronics plc. England. It's supposed to work, I think it's 
trying! The Mfr. has discontinued the product. I need a copy of the manual 
that identifies antenna "Z" and length, strapping the small pin array on the 
back, operation, etc. Again the Mfr is not willing to help me. Any advice 
short of throwing the thing away is appreciated.
	Please EMAIL response.
					Thnx, Phil
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: guido@blink.att.com (Guido Bertocci)
Subject: Re: Electronics legal on racing dinghies?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 14:04:39 GMT

bwb1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (BRENT W. BENSON) writes:

>Although all keelboats seem to have at least a knotmeter, if not a huge array
>of instruments useful for racing, small dinghies do not (with one exception
>which brings up this question). There is the obvious explanation that a
>battery (heavy) is required, but if your boat is underweight anyway,
>might as well ad electronics as lead. So, does anyone know of any rules
>against such devices on small centerboard boats (i.e. 470's, Lightnings, etc)?
>   Class rules often are written to limit costs of racing, so one-design regs
>are a good place to look. Note that I don't plan to install any, but am
>wondering if the only boat that has electronics is legal.

FD class rules prohibit electronics except for watches.  We went through
this issue about 4 years ago where someone wanted to use a Sailcomp.
It ultimately was ruled illegal.  The concern is indeed cost.  As
a result I suspect that in the future, it is likely that electronic
compasses will become comparable or cheaper than good mechanical compasses
and we will change the rules.  FD`s can easily be built underweight
so the weight of the compass is not a big concern.

I haven't looked at electronic compasses recently (are we still talking
about $800-$1000)?  On my boat, I use two large Plastimo 130s which
weigh a few pounds each and cost close to $300 each so the costs 
differentials aren't that large anymore.

In terms of a knotmeter, I doubt that in close one-design dinghy racing
it would be a big help.  If they were legal, I would try one to see
if they were any help, but I doubt that any are accurate enough
to be useful.  For example, I don't know of anyone using one for
training and you can do anything you want when not racing.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: A furling staysail for the Freedom 21
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:01:06 GMT

A 100 sq ft staysail is allowed on the Freedom 21 for upwind sailing
in light (<10k) airs. With winter coming on this looks like a simple
and inexpensive addition, except that I would want a furling mechanism.
The Schaeffer System 100 looks about right, or maybe a little on the weak
side. What other options are there? Anyone have experience with the Schaeffer 
100? Anyone with one to sell cheap?

Gybe Ho!

FLM on FELIX
Port of Redwood City
California USA
From: roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: rules definition question
Keywords: rule definition
Date: 4 Sep 92 13:48:21 GMT
Organization: Public Health Research Institute (New York)

jeff@unix386.Convergent.COM (Jeff Beckmann) writes:
> My skipper claims that overlap is a definition that the boats be neither
> clear ahead or clear astern AND within 2 boat lengths from the other
> boat.  The other skipper claims the same definition, but 3 boat lengths.

	The definition of overlap says nothing about the minimum lateral
seperation between the boats.  I suspect what your skipper is thinking of
is rule 39, which says you can't sail below your proper course if you have
a boat to leeward within 3 boatlengths.

	As far as I can tell, rule 39 is routinely violated.  In the
typical situation of 2 boats on a reach or run with the boat behind trying
to pass the boat ahead, what typically happens is the boat behind tries to
go high and the boat ahead follows her up.  Then, the boat behind goes low
to drive under and the boat ahead follows her back down.  The problem is
that the boat ahead can only follow the one behind down as low as proper
course (presumably the course she was steering before she started to defend
against being passed).  If the boat behind wants to dive way down to
establish an overlap to leeward, the boat ahead may not come down below
proper course to prevent this.  Yet, it seems to happen all the time.

	But, none of this applies to the situation you describe.  In your
case, windward had an overlap and was entitled to room, at least until you
broke the overlap by becoming clear ahead.

	Here's a somewhat related question.  Are "courtesy" hails binding?
For example, the other night we were passing a boat to windward and I told
the helmsperson to stay way high.  Somebody on the other boat heard me and
yelled back, "don't worry, we're not going to take you up" or something
like that.  If, based on that hail, we decided to pass them closer to
windward than we normally would have and they suddenly luffed as hard
causing us to foul them (as they would normally have the right to do),
could we protest them for violating Fair Sailing, or something like that?
-- 
roy@wombat.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Public Health Research Institute
455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016, USA
"This never happened to Bart Simpson."
Newsgroups: rec.boats