From: casper@vxcrna.cern.ch (CASPER,DAVI./PPE)
Subject: Re: A Means To Help Keep Change In Check
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 13:48:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.190538.18022@igor.tamri.com>, donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) writes...
>In article <19NOV199221305485@vxcrna.cern.ch> casper@vxcrna.cern.ch
>(CASPER,DAVI./PPE) writes:
>>>Example that point to other countries are irrelevant.  Switzerland has a
>>>higher gun ownership rate than the US, yet their crime rate is a tiny
>>>fraction of ours.  Mexico has togher gun laws than we do and their crime
>>>rate is HIGHER than ours.
>>
>>Just thought I'd point out a few missing facts about the Switzerland claim.
>>It is slightly misleading as stated.
>>
>>First, Switzerland is one of the richest countries in the world.  Hence the
>>motive for violent crime is rather less than in, say, South Central.
> 
>Switzerland is not a rich paradise.  There are people who are not very well
>off and there are drug abusers there.  They are simply not very violent.

I work in Switzerland.  There are some economic problems, but this country is
pretty rich.  There is no comparison to the US in terms of poverty.

>Also, the "militia" mentioned in the Second Amendment consists of all able-
>bodied men (should be people) between 18 and 45 or so.  And the "People"
>mentioned there is ALL the people, as the Supreme Court said in a 1990
>decision.

Excuse me?  Then I must have missed my yearly militia training, since I am not
feeling very "well-regulated" (I don't even know the what platoon I'm in).

The fact remains, there are plenty of "arms" which are understood as being
necessary to control: citizens are not allowed to possess tanks, helicopter
gunships, F-14's, aircraft carriers or ICBMs.  The difference between these
and firearms is merely one of degree.

>>If you use your military issue weapon to commit a crime in Switzerland, they
>>court-martial you (i.e. in a military court) and then execute you by a firing
>>squad when found guilty.
> 
>All well and good.  If you commit a murder in the US with your gun, you
>will also go to prison for a long time or go to death row.

God, it sounds like he actually believes it.  Of course, all murderers are
caught, tried, and found guilty - not.

If you are perceived as a "decent citizen" (i.e., preferably middle-aged,
white, and well-to-do), you have virtually no chance of spending significant
time in prison, much less being condemned.  First, they will reduce the charges,
then they will give you a cushy sentence, and then they will give you lots of
time off.  Of course, if you are sufficiently wealthy, you can hire a good
enough lawyer and might get 3 year's probabation and some community service
time.

Take the guy in Baton Rouge who blew away the Japanese exchange student for
walking up to the wrong door looking for a Halloween party.  The guy shouted
"Freeze!", which the Japanese did not understand to mean "Don't move an inch or
I'll put a hole in your face", and then waxed the kid.

If this wasn't murder, I don't know what is, but charges were not even filed
for almost a week, and when they were, it was manslaughter, not murder, and
you can bet your bottom dollar when all is said and done, this guy is probably
plead to reckless endangerment or some other bullshit charge, and wind up
looking at a whole 6 months jailtime, if that.


Dave

Couldn't help but make me feel ashamed
To live in a land where justice is a game.
      - Bob Dylan, "Hurricane"

Xref: sparky alt.president.clinton:455 talk.politics.guns:24170