HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: marshall@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com (Bob Marshall)
Subject: Re: preposition proposition
Reply-To: marshall@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale, California
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 00:04:55 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.124459.1280@newstand.syr.edu>, kanad@top.cis.syr.edu (Kanad Chakraborty) writes:
>In article <2113@tymix.Tymnet.COM> filfeit@rael.Tymnet.COM writes:
>>Everybody knows that a preposition is a word you should not
>>end a sentence with B-).
>>
>>Can someone post a sentence that ends with FIVE prepostions?

I remember this one :

What did you bring that book that I didn't want to be read to out of up for?

OK, so maybe these aren't prepositions as they're used here, but at times
they *ARE* prepositions. I can't believe there is really a valid sentence
ending in five prepositions that are really being used as prepositions.

=============================================================================
Bob Marshall                     \\     "It ain't age
Lockheed Missiles & Space Co.     \\     That makes me look this way
Sunnyvale, CA                      \\    It ain't the years, boys,
marshall@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com\\   It's the miles"
"I tell the truth 'cept when I lie"  \\     - Chris LeDoux
=============================================================================
From: jimhsu@athena.mit.edu (Jimmy M.D. Hsu)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
Subject: Circular Combinatorics
Date: 30 Jul 92 06:20:05 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Or, to make it tougher, how about a
multi-layered pattern?  Comme ca:

            O     O

       O     O   O     O
           O       O

           O       O   
       O     O   O     O

            O     O


Here's an easy one, so I don't
scare too many folks away-->

Is it any different from:

               O
         O           O
             O   O  
           O       O
       O               O
           O       O
             O   O
         O           O
               O

(These were supposed to be
symmetric, concentric circles,
with the latter pattern having
an outside pattern rotated with
respect to the inside pattern.)

Pick number and type of buttons
to use to suit your tastes.
I suggest 8 red and 8 blue.

What if the outside had only six?

How 'bout with more circles?

(Seems like difficulty increases
exponentially with variations,
doesn't it?)

--
James Tetazoo  MIT

a.k.a.  James Amdee
a.k.a.  Uncle Scooby
a.k.a.  Pen name pour moi

Anyone out there know Russian?
I seem to remember "hello" being
spelled something like "zgpabcbmem"
which is actually "zdravsbtet"
in Cyrillic.  Did I spell it right?
How is it spelled?
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
From: mblum@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Cerebus)
Subject: Re: vacuuously false?
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:02:03 GMT

dhesi@rahul.net (Rahul Dhesi) writes:

>Normally an assertion

>     if A then B

>is considered to be vacuously true if A is known to be false.  But
>consider this assertion:

>     if today is Monday then tomorrow is Tuesday

>Is this vacuously true on Friday?

If that were the complete assertion, you might have a point.  But for
what we know to be the case to be represented you must say:
	Tomorrow is Tuesday if *and only if* today is Monday.

And, as this incorporates the two statements:
	If today is Monday then tomorrow is Tuesday.
and	If tomorrow is Tuesday then today is Monday.

It can never be vacuously true.

-- Matt
+------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
|  Matt "Matt" Blum            | Let's make George Bush the 33rd          |
|                              |     ex-President of the United States!   |
| mblum@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu  |                                          |
|                              | I am not politically incorrect.          |
|  (617)893-2820               | I am politically challenged.             |
+------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
From: hayeso@vxcrna.cern.ch (HAYES,OWEN./PPE)
Subject: Re: Different objects
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 08:00:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul19.192213.10027@eng.umd.edu>, russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes...
>In article <18JUL199220271245@zeus.tamu.edu> dwr2560@zeus.tamu.edu (RING, DAVID WAYNE) writes:
>>wjcastre@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (W.Jose Castrellon G.) writes:
>>>>How about constructing two different objects that cannot be distinguished
>>>>by reasoning within well-established theories (plus lab data -- references to
>>
>>russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes...
>>>How about a magnetic bottle containing protons, and one
>>>containing anti-protons.  Perhaps a bit difficult to construct, and
>>>requires power to maintain, but it should work. 
>>
>>Perhaps the elecric field might give them away.
> 
>Hmm...  I suppose it would.   Neutrons and anti-neutrons should work,
>but I can't think of a way of holding them, and besides, they are
>unstable.  
> 
>-- 
>Matthew T. Russotto	russotto@eng.umd.edu	russotto@wam.umd.edu
>Some news readers expect "Disclaimer:" here.
>Just say NO to police searches and seizures.  Make them use force.
>(not responsible for bodily harm resulting from following above advice)

Well, the obvious extension is two beams:  one of neutrinos, the other
of anti-neutrinos.  pick your favorite flavor (electron, muon, or tau).
does "construct" imply "contained"?  


Owen J. Hayes        hayes@vxcern.cern.ch
Disclaimer:  grad students aren't considered people anyway.
From: t9114145@phillip.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
Subject: Re: Ten equals 9.9999....
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:00:32 GMT
Organization: RMIT (Bundoora Campus)

In article <Bry202.4BF@watdragon.waterloo.edu>, deghare@daisy.waterloo.edu (Dave Hare) writes:
> In article <1992Jul25.145154.12498@phillip.edu.au> t9114145@phillip.edu.au writes:
>>In article <1992Jul24.102553.17411@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, tjoa@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Richard Tjoa) writes:
>>
>>> Ok, here's something interesting...
>>> 9.9999...  (nine point nine repeating)  =   10  (ten)
>>
>>There's the error. 9.9999... does not equal 10, it approaches 10.
> 
> No, it equals 10.  This type of question has subtleties that too often
> are too easily dismissed.  Consider:

Alright, if 9.999... = 10, then why isn't .33333... exactly 1/3?

I don't see how they are equal. I know that 9.999... with infinite 9's
is very close to 10, but that .0000...0001 is what you need to make
exactly 10.

> 
>     - What exactly is a non-terminating decimal?

Let's keep it simple - we're talking about recurring 9's.
> 
>     - How will you determine that two numbers are *not* equal
> 

Why does it need a formal mathematical proof?

>     - If x is a non-terminating decimal, how do you define 10*x?  (Recall
>       that for ordinary multiplication, the computation proceeds from 
>       least significant digit to most significant digit, but x has no
>       least significant digit.)  And how do you define the other arithmetic
>       operations?

10*x is easy. Shift the decimal place one to the right, giving
 
99.9999....   which is still not equal to 10. (or 100 either.)

> 
> The problem is that we are cavalierly taught in grade school that if a
> non-terminating decimal is periodic, then we just multiply it by 10^{the
> period}, subtract the original, divide both sides by 10^{the period}-1
> and reduce to lowest terms, and we have that number as an exact rational.
> 
> These steps require justification.  HOWEVER, that justification is possible,
> and once it is done, then statements such as 9.99999... = 10 make perfect
> sense.
> 
> Dave Hare

Adam Eberbach      t9114145@phillip.edu.au          fnord
Computer Science student, Phillip Institute of Technology.
From: dseal@armltd.co.uk (David Seal)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
Subject: Re: Killing King (variation)
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:25:18 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: A.R.M. Ltd, Swaffham Bulbeck, Cambs, UK

In article <1992Jul29.020939.2822@athena.mit.edu> jimhsu@athena.mit.edu
(Jimmy M.D. Hsu) writes:

>        Brian, being very clever, decides to
>create a variation that is more difficult to
>compute probabilities with.  He decides to make
>the King the death card, not the Joker.  And,
>the first King does not kill, only the second!
>(He said that the four kings are evil, but it
>takes two to conspire together to have enough
>strength for a loss.)  In fact, this could be
>even more difficult to solve if you use the
>fifth spade, or any of the numerous possible
>variations.

Sorry, I think this needs to be clarified a bit. Is the losing criterion
that player A loses when:

(a) Player A picks up *the* second king?

or:

(b) Player A picks up *his* second king?

I.e. if player A picks up a king, then player B picks up a king, does player
B lose, or does the game continue until one of them picks up their second
king?

In the second case, players still want to pick up one card at a time and
discard it immediately, since as before, each card they pick up can only do
them harm. The first case is a lot more complicated, because picking up a
card can harm your opponent as well as you. (The first king picked up brings
both players closer to a loss, not just the player who picked it up.)

Another important question is whether the players have to decide how many
cards they are going to take before seeing any of them? I.e. does a turn go:

  "I'm going to take N cards."
  Takes N cards.
  Looks at cards.
  Announces loss, or discards (end of turn).

Or does it go:

  Either discards (end of turn), or "Give me a card."
  If latter, takes card and looks at it.
  Either announces loss, or discards (end of turn), or "And another."
  If last, takes card and looks at it.
  Either announces loss, or discards (end of turn), or "And another."
  ...

These lead to different results. For instance, I suspect that if the loss
rule is (a) above and the second type of turn is allowed, I suspect optimal
play for the first player is to take cards until he gets a king, changing
the game into the "one card killer" variety with him having an advantage of
a hand full of potential discards.

Assuming the loss rule is (a) above and you've got to say how many cards
you're taking before you see any of them, it's clear that it is advantageous
to take more than 1 card for some variations. E.g. in the "fifth spade"
variant, you can safely take 4-S cards, where S is the number of spades that
have come up so far. And in the extreme "54th card" variant, your optimal
move is clearly to take 53 cards :-)

Thanks for avoiding the probability paradox variations!

David Seal
dseal@armltd.co.uk

All opinions are mine only...
From: chris@peregrine.peregrine.com (Chris Cole)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
Subject: Re: FAQ???
Keywords: Frequently Asked Questions
Date: 21 Jul 92 06:26:15 GMT
Reply-To: chris@peregrine (Chris Cole)
Organization: Peregrine Systems, Inc.

In article <rsakella.711639130@p4.cs.man.ac.uk> rsakella@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Rizos Sakellariou) writes:
>Is there a list of Frequently Asked Questions for rec.puzzles?

For an index of the FAQL, send an email letter containing the single line:
send index
to netlib@peregrine.com

The index will be mailed via return email to the address in your
request's "From:" line.  If you are unsure of this address, and cannot
edit this line, then include in your message BEFORE the first "send" line
the line:

return_address <your_return_email_address>
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
From: karr@cs.cornell.edu (David Karr)
Subject: Re: 3 puzzles
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: rec.puzzles
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:47:38 GMT

In article <BrxA8s.Ew1@news.cso.uiuc.edu> wyg9633@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Wooed Sun) writes:
>karr@cs.cornell.edu (David Karr) writes:
>>Oh.  The problem is your question was not an English sentence.  I thought
>>you meant, "What is the first number in alphabetical order, when all numbers
>>are spelled out [in English --sorry for omitting this condition before]?"
>
>billion?

No, there is no number I would spell out as "billion."  I would write
"one billion."

-- David Karr (karr@cs.cornell.edu)
From: karr@cs.cornell.edu (David Karr)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
Subject: Re: 3 puzzles
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:25:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Jul23.142526.9834
Distribution: rec.puzzles
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853

<SPOILERS ahead>

In article <5071@transfer.stratus.com> markc@eomer.sw.stratus.com (Mark Christensen) writes:


>[1]
>	What is the first number, when spelled out (e.g. O-N-E) is
>in alphabetical order?

eight

>[2]
>	A man walks into a hardware store and goes to the clerk
>and says he wants an item.  "I'll take one", he says. The clerk
>says that that will be $1.  "How much for 12", the man asks?
>That will be $2 the clerk respond.  "OK, I'll take 125", the
>man says, to which the clerk responds, "That will be $3 please".
>What is the item that the man is buying.

Stick-on numbers (e.g. for his mailbox).  $1 per digit.
125 -> 3 digits -> $3.

>[3]
>The first prisoner took his blindfold off, looked at the other
>two prisoner's hats and said, "I can't tell what color my hat is".

(N,COLOR) = "The Nth prisoner is wearing a COLOR hat"
There are only two white hats, so if (2,white) and (3,white) then
1 knows that (1,red).  So (2,red) or (3,red).

>The second prisoner also responded as the first prisoner.

If (3,white) then (2,red) and prisoner 2 would know (2,red).
So the third prisoner's hat is red, and he or she doesn't even
need to look.

-- David Karr (karr@cs.cornell.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
From: karr@cs.cornell.edu (David Karr)
Subject: Re: Game show contestant puzzle. SPOILER!
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 03:05:58 GMT

>echarne@ics.uci.edu (Eli B. Charne) writes:
>>
>>  I recall seeing about a year ago discussion on this puzzle where
>>  someone is a contestant on a game show.
>>
>>  There are three curtained rooms.  One of which contains a prize.  The
>>  contestant picks a curtain.  The game show host then reveals one of
>>  the other rooms to be empty.  The question is, should the contestant
>>  now choose the final curtained room or stick with his/her original
>>  choice.

If you're interested in this puzzle, please send mail to
netlib@peregrine.com containing the line:

send decision/switch.p

For more details, read on (the following is quoted from the rec.puzzles
FAQ).
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Instructions for Accessing rec.puzzles Frequently Asked Questions List

Below is a list of available puzzles, categorized by subject area.
Each puzzle includes a solution, compiled from various sources, which is
supposed to be definitive.  To request a puzzle, send a letter to
netlib@peregrine.com containing one or more lines of the form:

send <puzzle_name>

For example, to request decision/allais.p, send the line:

send decision/allais.p

or just:

send allais

The puzzle will be mailed via return email to the address in your
request's "From:" line.  If you are unsure of this address, and cannot
edit this line, then include in your message BEFORE the first "send" line
the line:

return_address <your_return_email_address>

If you really must have the entire list, please do not request it via
email.  Instead, send a tape (9 track or cartridge) with a return envelope
(including postage, please) to:

Chris Cole
Peregrine Systems
1959 Palomar Oaks Way
Carlsbad, Ca 92009

Address corrections or comments to chris@peregrine.com.

[...]

==> decision/switch.p <==
Switch? (The Monty Hall Problem)

Two black marbles and a red marble are in a bag. You choose one marble from the
bag without looking at it. Another person chooses a marble from the bag and it
is black. You are given a chance to keep the marble you have or switch it with
the one in the bag. If you want to end up with the red marble, is there an
advantage to switching? What if the other person looked at the marbles remaining
in the bag and purposefully selected a black one?

Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
From: bootsma@fys.ruu.nl (Timo Bootsma)
Subject: Re: 3 puzzles
Organization: Physics Department, University of Utrecht,  The Netherlands
Distribution: rec.puzzles
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:49:41 GMT

In article <5071@transfer.stratus.com>, markc@eomer.hw.stratus.com (Mark Christensen) writes:
|> Here are three puzzles:
|> 
|> [1]
|> 	What is the first number, when spelled out (e.g. O-N-E) is
|> in alphabetical order?
|> 

In Dutch: een (1).

timo
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
From: phaedrus@cs.washington.edu (Mark Phaedrus)
Subject: Re: carrying the torch (HINT)
Organization: University of Washington Computer Science
Distribution: rec
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 05:56:48 GMT

In article <PH.92Jul25130436@vortex.ama.caltech.edu> ph@vortex.ama.caltech.edu
(Paul Hardy) writes:
>In article <1992Jul25.065442.12748@beaver.cs.washington.edu> I write:

>>Turn one of the switches (call it #1) on.  Wait about ten minutes.
>>Turn another switch (#2) on.  Race into the other room.  Light #1 will be on;
>>light #2 will be on, but the bulb will be noticeably cooler; light #3 will be
>> off.
>This is not bad, but not the exact answer.  Incandescent light bulbs heat up
>quickly, so the above might not be possible.

     Fine, be that way, see if I care.  :) Well, if I can't get it one way, 
I'll get it the other:  Turn two switches (call them #1 and #2) on.  Wait a few
minutes, then turn #2 off and race into the other room.  Light #1 will still
be on, #2 will be off but warm to the touch, and #3 will be off and at room
temperature.  Incandescent bulbs certainly don't cool down that quickly; I've
nearly burned my hands on bulbs that have been off for a minute or more.
-- 
\ Mark Phaedrus, Computer Science Major, Univ. of Washington, Seattle, WA \*\
*\ Work: phaedrus@cs.washington.edu        Play: phaedrus@u.washington.edu \*\
\*\ Cute .sig quote still under alpha-testing; planned for release in 1993. \*\
 - Hi!  I'm an anti-virus utility!  Install me in your .signature right away! -
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
From: amorgan@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Crunchy Frog)
Subject: Infinite series and bogus math proofs 
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:23:16 GMT


To combine two popular (!) threads in this newsgroup I submit the following
proof that infinity = -1

S = 1 + 2 + 4 + 8 + ........       

2S = 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + ........

S-2S = 1

S = -1

C "Yes, I know what the flaw is" Frog
From: dseal@armltd.co.uk (David Seal)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
Subject: Re: Cubes (SPOILER)
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:40:24 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: A.R.M. Ltd, Swaffham Bulbeck, Cambs, UK

In article <28JUL199217254185@zeus.tamu.edu> dwr2560@zeus.tamu.edu (RING,
DAVID WAYNE) writes:

>s290@brems.ii.uib.no ( Per Ivar Roervik) writes...
>>  In a nxnxn cube of cubes tightly packed, what is the max number
>>  of cubes a straight line can pierce?
>
>3n-2?

Yes, assuming "pierce" means "pass through the interior of the cube, and not
just its boundary". Proof:

(a) Consider the internal planes breaking up the big cube into nxnxn
    cubelets. There are three sets of n-1 of these, for a total of 3n-3 of
    them. Each time the straight line passes from one cubelet to another, it
    must pass through at least one of these planes, and it is impossible for
    the straight line to pass through any plane more than once. So there can
    only be 3n-3 shifts from one cubelet to another, and thus the line
    cannot pass through more than (3n-3) + 1 = 3n-2 cubelets.

(b) To get a straight line passing through 3n-2 cubelets, start with the
    body diagonal of the big cube. This passes through all 3n-3 internal
    planes, though unfortunately it passes through them 3 at a time, so only
    goes through (3n-3)/3 + 1 = n cubelets. But we can rectify this by
    moving one of its endpoints slightly. We will do this by shifting it
    less than one cubelet's width in each of the three co-ordinate
    directions (to ensure that it continues to pass through all 3n-3
    internal planes), and by a different amount in each of the three
    co-ordinate directions - this gets rid of all the places where it passes
    through two or more planes simultaneously. This perturbed line passes
    through all 3n-3 planes, one at a time, and so pierces (3n-3) + 1 = 3n-2
    cubelets. So 3n-2 cubelets is achievable.

If passing through the boundary of a cubelet counts as piercing it, I
believe the optimum is a body diagonal, which passes through the interior of
n cubelets and touches a corner of 6(n-1) more, for a total of 7n-6.

David Seal
dseal@armltd.co.uk

All opinions are mine only...
From: courtes@trimaran.ens.fr (Francois Courtes)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
Subject: Re: 3 puzzles
Date: 26 Jul 92 13:41:05 GMT
Distribution: rec.puzzles
Organization: Ecole Normale Superieure, PARIS, France

In article <5084@transfer.stratus.com> markc@eomer.sw.stratus.com (Mark Christensen) writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.141217.22081@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> jil@uts.uucp (Jamie Lubin) writes:
>>In article <5071@transfer.stratus.com> markc@eomer.sw.stratus.com (Mark Christensen) writes:
>>>Here are three puzzles:
>>>
>>>[1]
>>>	What is the first number, when spelled out (e.g. O-N-E) is
>>>in alphabetical order?
>> 
>>40  (F-O-R-T-Y)
>
>Correct.  

In French the first one is 2 (D-E-U-X).
Is there a language in which 1 is so ?
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
From: tsmaster@media.mit.edu (David LeCompte)
Subject: Re: Ten equals 9.9999....
Keywords: nine ten repeating digits
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:56:30 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.175614.18586@hellgate.utah.edu> tolman%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Kenneth Tolman) writes:
>Now, who are we to believe?  What is the TRUE definition of subtraction?
What is true? Is epistemology true? Does philosophy have the Truth?
>
>In any event, let us suppose that for the moment, 10 does equal 9.999...
>Then by induction, 10 also equals 9.999.....(infinity)...8
>Then by induction, 10 also equals 9.999.....(infinity)...7
>Then by induction, 10 also equals 9.999.....(infinity)...6
>
>If we follow this through, than 10 = 9.  Then 10 = whatever we want.
>That is clearly silly, so I am inclined to agree that 10 != 9.99999....
>

Yeah, if we follow this through, we get 10 - 9.99999(infinity)...x,
where x is a digit.

Where do you get the idea that you can write x as the last digit in
this series? There is no last digit! They're ALL 9s! All of them!

How about the 100th? Yeah, that's a 9.
The millionth? is that a 9? Yup.
The nth, where n is a cardinal number? Sure. 

So where's the last 9? There isn't one. You can't write

9.999...(infinity)...999
                  ^^^^^^
This bit makes no sense. The (infinity) indicates that the nines keep
on going longer than the energizer rabbit.

-- 
---------------------
ObSig
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles
From: jimhsu@athena.mit.edu (Jimmy M.D. Hsu)
Subject: Question for Seth
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 02:15:47 GMT

Since you assumed a round involves shuffling,
how can you pick up only one card per round?
The only way this can happen is if you take
the Joker immediately or your opponent does.
Otherwise, you do not have enough cards to
continue playing and must draw more from A.

I assume you mean taking one card per turn
as a strategy.  Taking *no* cards per round
is optimal.  (just clarifying...  :-)
Newsgroups: rec.puzzles