HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: odp@ldgo.columbia.edu (carl brenner)
Subject: Re: CFIDS and Lyme
Summary: Misunderstanding, I think . . .
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 19:28:43 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.150712.10256@athena.mit.edu>, jgnassi@athena.mit.edu (John Angelo Gnassi) writes:
> In article <1992Aug31.195028.4974@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu> odp@ldgo.columbia.edu (carl brenner) writes:
> >modify your attitude. Seronegativity is real; there is nothing scientific
> >about pretending it isn't. Withholding treatment for seronegative patients
> >with symptoms highly suggestive of Lyme: *That's* quackery. I promise
> 
> Seems to me that physicians who decline to treat people with unproven
> therapies hardly could be be considered quacks.  If good studies show
> that treating people suspected of having MS, but also of perhaps
> having seronegative Lyme, with intravenous ceftriaxone for 6 weeks
> leads to objective improvement, then you might have something to
> complain about.  But until then, "modify your attitude", and save
> the term "quackery" for egregious practices.

	I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I was not saying that
MS patients should be treated for Lyme. I was saying that seronegative patients
with a high index of suspicion for Lyme should be treated, after efforts to
find another cause for their symptoms have been sufficiently explored.
	I most certainly was not advocating that all MS patients be treated
for Lyme. That would indeed be a waste.

> --
>      John Angelo Gnassi			Lab of Computer Science
>    jgnassi@hstbme.mit.edu		Massachusetts General Hospital
>      "Eternal Student"			Boston, Massachusetts, USA
> 		"24 years of school down, 2 to go!"


Carl Brenner
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: The dangers of a low cholesterol level
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:56:06 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <seiler-010992201046@seiler.stx.com> seiler@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ed Seiler) writes:

>  A friend of mine in Phoenix, AZ told me he read an article in the
>newspaper about the results of a study that showed a number of afflictions
>statistically associated with persons who have cholesterol levels below
>150. The article stated that the medical community was reluctant to
>publicize the findings for fear that the general public would perceive
>a risk in lowering their cholesterol levels. Is anyone familiar with
>this study, or any others on this subject, and willing to provide a
>critical assessment?
>

There are many diseases, such as AIDS, alcoholism, and liver disease
in which the body is unable to synthesize cholesterol or doesn't
absorb it well.  Many very ill people will therefore have low
cholesterol because their bodies are too sick to make it.
But typically, if that finding was publicized, the public would
jump to the conclusion that the low cholesterol was *causing*
the other problems.  I suspect that now you have posted this,
we will see some of the more naive persons here on the net
jumping to this same conclusion, so you will have a demonstration
of why medics didn't want it in the newspapers.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bhjelle@carina.unm.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: The dangers of a low cholesterol level
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:26:55 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

>seiler@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ed Seiler) writes:
>
>>  A friend of mine in Phoenix, AZ told me he read an article in the
>>newspaper about the results of a study that showed a number of afflictions
>>statistically associated with persons who have cholesterol levels below
>>150. The article stated that the medical community was reluctant to
>>publicize the findings for fear that the general public would perceive
>>a risk in lowering their cholesterol levels. Is anyone familiar with
>>this study, or any others on this subject, and willing to provide a
>>critical assessment?
>
If a person suffers from widely disseminated cancer (whether they
are aware of it yet or not), they will often have rock-bottom
serum cholesterols, like 100 or less. If you test cholesterol
levels in 1000 elderly people, a few of them will probably be in
that situation. When you see how their health is 2 years later,
you may notice that several people with rock-bottom cholesterols
died of cancer within that short interval. Hence, low cholestorol
"increases cancer risk".

This may seem to be a trivial statistical problem, but studies
reporting this sort of correlation were published before that
phenomon was recognized.

Just one of the many ways one can be fooled by statistics.

Brian
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: drand@spinner.osf.org (Douglas Rand)
Subject: Fat free foods not really?
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Distribution: sci
Date: 31 Aug 92 10:58:24


Here's a request for comment.  I notice that many "fat free" foods 
contain what would appear from the ordering of ingredients to be
substantial amounts of mono and diglycerides as well as lecithin.
Now regular fats are triglycerides, if I'm not mistaken.  Wouldn't
the mono and diglycerides have essentially the same effect on my
metabolism as triglycerides? 

--
Douglas S. Rand <drand@osf.org>		OSF/Motif Dev.
Snail:         11 Cambridge Center,  Cambridge,  MA  02142
Disclaimer:    I don't know if OSF agrees with me... let's vote on it.
Amateur Radio: KC1KJ
From: holly@sybase.com (Innocent Bystander)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Whay is the biological role of the epiglottis?
Date: 26 Aug 92 16:26:50 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: slim to none...

In article <10464.2A965239@stjhmc.fidonet.org> Robin.Salmansohn@f715.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Robin Salmansohn) writes:
>O.K., gang. What does the epiglottis do? (What is its role)?
>

It's important for spelling bees, Trivial Pursuit, and the solutions to 
some crossword puzzles.

--
holly@sybase.com			 
Not the opinion of Sybase. Not valid with other offers. Not for use in 
microwave oven.  Use with UL-listed grounded equipment only. Cash value 
less than $.0002.
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Mercury in dental fillings?
Date: 1 Sep 92 14:47:58 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <BtvE6G.CtK@wpg.com> russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence) writes:
>
>As I said, the only reference that I was able to find in the New 
>Orleans Public Library was written by a notorious anti-amalgamist.  
>
Did the librarian not inform you that you needed to look at
medical reference books to research MS?  Few public libraries
carry that.  But Tulane would have all you would need.  Perhaps
the librarian needs to be sued too.

>
>I presume that you're in favor of higher educational and 
>scientific standards.  Should these standards be strictly 
>voluntary?  Or, should they be enforced by some private or 
>governmental agency?  
>

The government can't enforce these well because of political
considerations.  I think a private agency (although never
tried, to my knowledge) might be able to do something here.



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: andreaf@houdini.Rational.COM (Andrea Frankel)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Hi!  I'm back...
Summary: new job = net access
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:37:56 GMT


Hello!  I've been off net for nearly a year, but for those who remember,
I was "andrea@sdd.hp.com", and am now "andreaf@rational.com".  Glad to be
back.  

I've had one helluva year - moved up to Nevada City/Grass Valley area,
my asthma completely cleared up, but the CFIDS/FM flared up something
awful.  Fortunately, there's an excellent doctor in town who specializes
in chronic diseases and preventative medicine, and he works hand-in-hand
with a very scientifically oriented acupuncturist on CFIDS patients.
Plus, I screwed up my right knee and just had arthroscopic surgery on it,
and am recovering just fine.

This area is so lovely - lots of trees, clean air, quiet, beautiful
seasonal changes, deer - that I truly didn't mind being wiped out for a
while (although I'm glad to report I'm feeling at least 70% human these
days!).

All for now.  Anyone who wants to compare notes on CFIDS/FM treatments
and what has worked for them, please drop me a line!



Andrea Frankel (andreaf@rational.com) -- "Suffering is optional."
From: mcovingt@athena.cs.uga.edu (Michael A. Covington)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Ken's concerns about misuse of net info
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:13:54 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

I would favor:

- a FAQ file with a disclaimer in it about medical advice;

- splitting sci.med into sci.med.medicine and sci.med.debate, with
"adversarial discussions" in the second one. 
(Like comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy, which is the place for
"adversarial discussions" [their choice of words] about Windows.)

-- 
+ Michael Covington - Artificial Intelligence Programs - U of Georgia - USA 
+ Unless otherwise noted, these are private opinions, not official statements.
+ VOTE NO GEORGIA LOTTERY - we need not imitate mistakes of other states.
From: Robin.Salmansohn@f715.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Robin Salmansohn)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Vitamin C dosage?
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:36:04 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:273/715 - Alternative Lifesty, Wyndmoor PA

To : markmc@sierra.com (Mark McWiggins)
 
 MM> An M.D. I respect recommends up to 2 grams 3 
 MM> times/day as an antioxidant.
 MM> I can't see any harm, so I'm doing that (along 
 MM> with 25,000 i.u. of beta
 MM> carotene and 400-800 i.u. of vitamin E).
 
Please note that there is potential for a drug interaction from vitamin
E (when taken with certain anticoagualants it can cause an increase in bleed 
time that can lead to death). 
 
Beta carotine can interact with certain drugs used to treat acne, cancer, or 
AIDS. It increases the bodies sensitivity to sunlight,
potenially giving the patient burns or skin cancer. Ask your doctor/
pharmacist.


 

--  
Internet: Robin.Salmansohn@f715.n273.z1.fidonet.org
From: choudhri@njmsa.umdnj.edu (Ajay Choudhri)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Do Doctors Give a Damn? The Other Health Care Crisis
Date: 26 Aug 92 02:18:53 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Medical School, Newark NJ


I haven't read the articles in the Washington Post about the issue but
I'd like to add my $0.02 anyways(Its a free country... still I think)

One of the major issues that we as medical students are presented now
are the deteriorating image doctors now have.  A good doctor is not hard
to find, the bad apples on the other hand do tremendous amounts of damage
to the reputation of doctors as a whole.  whether its a medicare billing
scandal, unnecessary surgery etc, behind lawyers, doctors are starting
to come under fire.  I think patient/doctor interaction and ethics is 
surging greatly now in medical schools as this issue is targeted in
almost every clinical lecture course.  One of the big problems in this
country though is not the large amount of specialists but the huge
deemphasis on preventive medicine.  Primary care in the US quality wise
is not a high priority as in european countries.  Simple preventitive
medicine would knock down the amount of surgery and therapy performed
currently.  

healthcare in general has reached crisis levels now as Medicare/Medicaid
and related healthcare costs the government $350 billion dollars out
of a 1.2 trillion budget.  The reason?  People blame the providers, the
providers have no choice but to charge what they do for a couple of reasons.
1) Litigation
2) No market driven price on low cost procedures.
3) technology.. everybody wants the latest advance done, but nobody wants
to foot the bill to pay for it.  
4) No preventitive med.

There's a whole lot more in this issue and I might have a biased view
but I tried to target the problems that exist now.

As per declining family med, it takes serious desire to be a doctor to
begin with and unless dedication is your middle name, most students 
dont see family medicine as rewarding as some specialties.  It takes a little
foresight now to become a doctor.  After 4yrs of college and average of
$20,000 debt, add another $80,000 for medical school, you leave medical
school with a debt burden of $100,000 and then earn $25-$27k for 4-8 years
before you are no longer a resident. Throw in a 2 year fellowship and after
anywhere from 10-18 years of subaverage life and 120 hour work weeks, 
A high income is not hard to rationalize.  I think the crux of the fiscal
matter does not lie with irresponsible doctors but with bureaucrats.

Thats my $0.02 but then again, looks like a lot of bull to me.
thanks
 -Ajay
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: K.Spagnolo@massey.ac.nz (Ken Spagnolo)
Subject: What foods have Tyramine in them?
Organization: Massey University Computer Centre
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 08:12:57 GMT

In the latest chapter of my quest to rid myself of headaches, I've been
recommended to go on a low Tyramine (a vaso-constrictor) diet.  Here is
a list I was given of substances to avoid.  If you know of any others,
please let me know.  I'd also appreciate referrences, if you have them.

mature cheese, chocolate, cola, nuts, peanuts, pork, coffee, eggs,
red wine, pickled herring, avocado, marmite, vegemite, broad beans,
yoghourt, beer, gin, vodka, whiskey, coconut, banana, nitrates

Thanx,
-- 
Ken Spagnolo - Ph: +64-6-350-5160
Systems Programmer, Network Support, Usenet Admin, etc.
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner)
Subject: Effect of glycerin taken internally?
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 18:37:52 GMT

(I hope this is the correct newsgroup for this topic...)

In response to my query in rec.sport.triathlon, I asked if there is
any way for me to reduce the (copious) amount of sweat I produce during
exercise, since I cannot come near replacing the lost water during the
exercise.  Someone posted about research done using glycerol prior to
exercise, in order to maintain blood volume to help cool, ease heart
effort, and help fuel muscles.  The research indicated using 1ml glycerol
per kg body weight in a 20% solution twice prior to exercise.

Well, I thought I'd try it.  Upon finding glycerin at the local pharmacy,
I note that the bottle (which says "U.S.P." and "Pure") indicates "For
External Use Only"!

My questions are

1) What is the difference between glycerin marked "for external use only"
andd glycerin to be taken internally, and can either be taken safely at
the desired quantities (~75ml)?

2) What effects does glycerin have on the body that I should be aware of?

Thanks in advance for any info.  I can cite the references, if necessary.

Ken "the human well" Lehner
From: km@speedy.cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Ken's concerns about misuse of net info
Date: 31 Aug 92 12:53:29 GMT
Reply-To: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Organization: Computer Science Dept., University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Aug28.114825.217@news.wesleyan.edu> RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg) writes:

[cocktail parties, relatives' inquries, etc]

>How do you usually handle such situations, & would that work in this newsgroup?

I generally avoid talking medicine to non-medical people at parties:
if someone doesn't want to talk about Pirate baseball or houseboats, I
go on to someone else! 

Seriously, there is a big difference in giving advice to someone you
know and posting information on the net. With an individual, during
a conversation, if the other person misinterprets something you say,
you can immediately correct this, etc. You are not posting something
to hundreds of people whom you don't know.

[FAQ file]

I think that would be a good idea, although it would be a lot of work
for. As I have stated before, I think part of the problem is the
lack of a single purpose for the newsgroup, and perhaps an FAQ file
could help focus things. But I don't think it would solve the problem
of how the information here is interpreted.

I am a very late newcomer to sci.med - while I have been reading news
for the past several years, it is only in the last few months that I
have paid any attention to sci.med. I have always been interested in a
newsgroup where medical people could discuss things, but there really
is no such group devoted to this. Sci.med seems to be more of a
combination soapbox/question-answer group, which appeals much more
to non-professionals. 


 -km






Newsgroups: sci.med
From: tnfx1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Subject: help me find article on fluoxetine
Reply-To: tnfx1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 15:55:21 GMT

I once read an story about people having side effects of yawns and orgasm
from taking certain prescription drugs.  I found an index that had an article 
about this, but our library doesn't have the journal.  I was wondering if 
anyone could find this article at their library, would they please type it in 
and either post or email me a copy.  

The article is:

Repeated observations of yawning, and orgasm associated with fluoxetine
administration.  Journal of Clinical Psychopharmacology; Feb. Vol 9(1)
pages 63-65

Thanks in advance...
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: sdl@linus.mitre.org (Steven D. Litvintchouk)
Subject: treatment for bone cancer?
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 20:26:27 GMT


I am interested in finding out what treatments are currently available
for bone cancer.  What drugs are typically used, whether surgery is of
any help, etc.



--
Steven Litvintchouk
MITRE Corporation
202 Burlington Road
Bedford, MA  01730

Fone:  (617)271-7753
ARPA:  sdl@mitre.org
UUCP:  linus!sdl
	"Where does he get those wonderful toys?"
Organisation: European Space Operation Centre (E.S.O.C)
Date: Tuesday, 1 Sep 1992 20:27:11 CET
From: <RFLOOD@ESOC.BITNET>
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Turning into a Pig

Thanks for all the advice. Turns out it was an abcess (or a pre-abcess)
above a tooth, which was drained by drilling and antibiotics were
prescribed. She is now as beautiful as she ever was (which is quite a lot).
Robin "The Evil Mr." Flood
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: preiss@griffin.uvm.edu (Kurt K. Preiss)
Subject: Re: Foreskin
Organization: Division of EMBA, University of Vermont
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 21:36:42 GMT


Hi,

I am an uncircumcised male in my 20's. I can pull my foreskin back only 
about 1/2 inch, midway between the tip and the rim. I was told by some
readers on a different newsgroup that I can pull it further back by doing 
so a little everyday. I would like to get more professional advice on this 
matter.

Would it be difficult to have sex in this condition? Is it crucial to
be able to extend it all the way back to the rim? BTW, I have not had any
infection in that area. 

Any input will be deeply appreciated.

-KP
Newsgroups: sci.med

Re: Annals article

What John is referring to about "unhappy" is that the article did what
the shlock chiropractor here in town does ---- use their own definition
of "chronic fatigue"  

I have heard a retraction was printed in subsequent issues. 

Annals should be embarrassed for their pre-publication review process.

Ron Miller
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: lnprvz@appl.nnov.su (Ludmila N. Perevezenceva)
Subject: Looking for specialists working on CHEMICALLY PROGRAMMED MAGNET-GUIDED REMEDIES
Reply-To: lnprvz@appl.nnov.su
Organization: Applied Physics Institute
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 17:12:38 +0400



I AM LOOKING FOR THE SPECIALISTS WORKING ON CHEMICALLY
PROGRAMMED MAGNET-GUIDED REMEDIES!
I intend to discuss about medical instruments for treating
amocio retinae using magnet-guided surgical method and for
treating tympanic membrane perforation using magnet-guided
surgical method of ORL pathology.

e-mail:  lnprvz@appl.nnov.su      (Ludmila N.Perevezenceva)
From: cuegf@dcatla.uucp
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Xanax
Date: 1 Sep 92 10:09:23 GMT
Organization: Digital Communications Associates, Alpharetta, GA

In article <1992Aug26.194604.19032@equator.com>, jod@equator.com (John Setel O'Donnell) writes:
> Xanax is neither safe nor effective for other than short-term use
> (short term, e.g.: you have to fly today and you have fear of flying).
> It is physically addictive, and loses most of its antianxiety effect
> after about 2 weeks use.

This is a false statement.  Xanax does not lose effect after 2 
weeks.  The poster's knowledge of benzodiazepines is biased and
contorted.

For those who read this post, the poster expresses views and cites
literature commonly known as anti-psychiatry, a vocal, rabid 
minority movement which regards all drugs in psychiatry as 
dangerous and ignores any positive help persons may have received
from medications.  They dismiss all scientific evidence 
implicated in brain disorders, such as neurotransmitter imbalance,
structural changes (such as enlarged ventricles, changes in 
limbic system substructures, differences in frontal and temporal
lobes), electrical abnormalities, etc.

Fortunately, overwhelming scientific evidence has emerged, 
particularly in the last 10 years (and is still accelerating)
that brain disorders like schizophrenia, manic-depressive
psychosis, major depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder,
anxiety disoders, and others are diseases of the brain.

The anti-psychiatrists choose to ignore irrefutable scientific
evidence and cling to the notion that there are no beneficial
effects of psychiatric medications. Obviously, this attitude
becomes more and more illogical and bizarre as time goes on.

About 6 to 7 large pharmaceutical companies are now developing
and testing compounds for schizophrenia. This confirms that the
scientific community now regards schizophrenia as a brain 
disease which medication can be extremely effective for.  These
companies are working at reducing serious side effects while
maintaining strongly beneficial effects of new medications like
Clozaril.

It is rather amusing that while these anti-psychiatry people
cite all psychiatric medications as dangerous because of their
side effects, they say nothing about chemotherapy treatments
for cancer, which are far more life-threatening and "toxic"
than effects of properly used psychiatric medications. Why 
don't they protest cancer chemotherapy?  Isn't that a 
"dangerous" treatment?  Why not advocate "love" for treating
person's with cancer, like an anti-psychiatry "doctor"
advocates?

This person's post deserves refutation only because these 
bizarre philosophies have been so widely dispersed and the
scientific basis of mental illness has not.



Ed Francell
From: ssouth@hpldsla.sid.hp.com (Steve South)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:29:48 GMT
Subject: Re: "Anti-psychiatry": Cool the flames  ...was: Re: Xanax
Organization: HP Scientific Instruments Division - Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: sci.med

On the general subject, did anyone see the BBC series by Jonathan Miller
called "Madness"? I found it to be an excellent series on the history of
diagnosis and treatment of mental illness. In particular, it dwelt at some
length on the problem of defining exactly what constitutes mental illness. 
It was shown on PBS in the SF Bay area in April/May this year.

If you get a chance, watch it. 

As an aside, I nearly fell off my chair on hearing the announcement:

 "Madness is made possible by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, and by
  viewers like you"


Steve South.