HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jael@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Jael)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Haybox
Date: 4 Sep 92 13:49:34 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

This sounds like a portable version of the hay-hole, a way of keeping food
warm.  The key point is that the food does NOT cook while it is in the hay-
hole - it must be fully cooked and steaming hot when it goes in.  The 
advantage to doing this is that you can prepare your food in the morning,
work in the fields all day, and your food will be hot when you come back
for dinner.

-- 
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Jael                    |   "One dream, one soul, one prize, one goal,     |
| jael@sage.cc.purdue.edu | One golden glance of what should be." -R. Taylor |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: Haybox
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 16:06:43 GMT

There was an article about hayboxes in Mother Earth News a while ago.

If you have a library with this magaizine, you may be able to track
it down.

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Mead recipes?
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:18:40 GMT

Arun Welch shared some questions, and a nice cyser recipe with
us.  I'm going to pick up on the conversation.

  Was it Digby who used other measurements than weight for the amount of
  honey?

He used volume, weight, and the "Hens Egg to the width of a groat"
stuff.  All sorts of things.  The Hens Egg trick makes a nice homebrew
hydrometer, but as you pointed out, the size of the egg, and the
actual measurement matter.  Actually, the freshness of the egg matters
too.  (Has anyone else used floating an egg in a glass of water to
see how fresh it is?  Fresh eggs float really well...)

  Where can I get a copy of Digby anyway?

I wish I knew.  A few years ago someone on the SCA mailing list was
making copies for people, and I got mine that way.  I was gifted
with another copy a year or so later.

In reference to boiling honey.
                     Keep it just below boiling, and skim off the scum
  from the surface until it pretty much stops producing anymore (I've
  never had the patience to take it all the way until it didn't foam
  anymore, does it ever do that?).

Nope, honey water mixtures foam when they boil, forever.  I got
some really nasty burns once, proving that.  I substituted honey
for corn syrup in a recipe.  Corn syrup doesn't foam, rise up,
and boil over, I discovered.  I will never use a stove with rear
controls again (I got badly burned by reaching over the pot to
turn off the honey mixture).

	schuldy (or, sometimes, Tibor in the SCA)
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: flar@iastate.edu (Bradley M Armitage)
Subject: Re: Mead recipes?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 22:33:09 GMT

In <3359@creatures.cs.vt.edu> jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter) writes:

>David Herron asked about pressure.  Schuldy wrote,

>>Well, I had a glass grenade go off in my kitchen, once.  Once was enough.
>>It threw glass 20 feet, fountained off the ceiling, dirtied all the food
>>and dishes in the pantry, and trashed a number of cookbooks (none of the
>>rare ones, fortunately.)

>And someday I'll tell you all about the Incredible Fragged Bathroom.  These
>days, I put my bottles inside a rubber trash can with a latching top, with
>the trash can in the basement bathroom tub.  But these days I also don't
>get many exploders.

WOULD LOVE TO HEAR THIS!!! :)

>Schuldy lets his go until done, so to speak, then adds a teeny touch of
>sugar to get the sparkle.  I've been bottling mine before that point.  One
>precaution is to use nice heavy bottles with Grolsh-like tops.  But another
>is to bottle into (sterilized) 2-liter plastic bottles.  I've found that
>when you _re_seal these, the seal leaks just enough to bleed off excess.

PLASTIC????  REALLY, ALL I'VE EVER HEARD WAS BOTTLES, DOESN'T THE
PLASTIC TAINT THE MEAD??????

>>Truly, here is where introducing modern techniques is a winner.  If you
>>use a hydrometer to measure sugar and alcohol levels, you can bottle at
>>the exact right moment, and never have a problem.  I'm doing historical
>>brewing, and choose to experiment.  Your mileage may vary.  I no longer
>>store the cookbooks and the mead in the same place.

>Like Schuldy, I haven't gone the hydrometer route, though I know it would
>probably give me better brew.  (For that matter, I haven't been brewing
>nearly enough recently.  Have to do something about that....)  You can
>get quite nice results without, but yes, it's a good idea to put the
>bottles somewhere relatively out of the way until you're _sure_ they're
>not grenades.

>Cheers,

>Terry Nutter     Blacksburg, VA     jtn@vtopus.cs.vt.edu     (703)552-1598

*****************************************************************************
*       Spiritus Sanctus Anno Mundi:  Can you see me, are you near me?      *
* Can you hear me crying out for life?  Can you tell me, where's the glory? *
*     BLACK         **********************************      SABBATH         *
*******************  flar@iastate.edu (Brad Armitage)  **********************




Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: justin@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Justin du Coeur MKA Mark Waks)
Subject: Re: Apples Apples everywhere
Followup-To: rec.food.historic
Organization: Many, Sundry, and Odd
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:29:24 GMT

In article <20AUG199213585232@comb1.comb.umd.edu> belas@comb1.comb.umd.edu (BOB AT COMB) writes:
>	   Tom, how about applebutter?  Its easy and you can used windfalls
>and bruised fruit.  All you need to do is peel and core the apples, place
>in large pot with small amount of water.  Heat and mash apples when soft.
>Add sugar, cinnamon, (and ginger) after the volume has been reduced and
>the mixture is thick.  

Getting back to specifically historical stuff, I recall once (several years
ago) working with a recipe that makes (essentially) apple leather. You
need to add a good deal of sugar, and I recall that the recipe calls for
a small quantity of wine, instead of water, but it's basically what Bob
describes here. Once you've got the mixture seriously reduced and
thickened, you lay it out in thin pans in the sun for several days.
(A practical alternative, if making this in the winter, is to lay it
on the radiator.) Quite tasty, and keeps pretty much forever.

Actually, thinking back on it, it seems to me that the recipe called
for a combination of apples and pears. Largely the same result, though...

(Damn, I wish I could remember which source this was from. Can anyone
provide a likely pointer? It would have been something pre-1600, but
that's a pretty large possible selection...)

				-- Justin du Coeur

Random Quote du Jour:

"When Shooter was king, he stood out as one of the company's worst writers.  Now
 DeFalco is vying for that dubious distinction.  Is it listed in their job
 description? ("'Tis your duty, desire and privilege to write talk-heavy comics,
 though mayhap you might'st not win much favor for thineself, though willst make
 thine underlings look mighty by comparison!")."
		-- Rogers Cadenhead
From: norteman@tnpubs.enet.dec.com (Karen Norteman)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Mead recipes?
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:00:58 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


Hi gang --

In article <1992Sep2.091213.17128@alf.uib.no>, edmtl@alf.uib.no (Thor Legvold) writes...
> 
>Hi.
> 
>Everyones talking about this Digby book - if it's so popular, maybe someone
>would like to (or has) made a semi legal electronic version of it, a la
>project Guthenberg...?
> 
>I'd like a copy, but have no idea here to get one.  Nor do I know what an
>SCA is (latest autofocus camera club? ;-)
> 
>Anyone can point me towards (ideally) an on-line copy, or willing to send
>a copied copy???
> 
>Regards,
>Thor
> 
David Friedman, who makes an appearance here from time to time, sells a
photocopied version of Digby (as well as a number of other mediaeval and
Renaissance cookbooks.  He just received his latest updated version of this
collection from his printer.

He had mentioned doing mail order, but I haven't had the time to read
rec.org.sca lately in order to find out if he's actually doing it.  Try
sending him email at ddfr@midway.uchicago.edu to find out.

I've been using a personal variation on David's mead recipe for years now,
without explosions or other unpleasant events.

(He's Duke Cariadoc in the SCA.)

--Karen Norteman (Ariel of Caer Myrddin in the SCA)
Digital Equipment Corporation
Littleton, MA
norteman@tnpubs.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: welch@sacral.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arun Welch)
Subject: Re: Mead recipes?
Originator: welch@sacral.cis.ohio-state.edu
Organization: OSU-LAIR
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:20:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug24.131425.18541@progress.com> schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei) writes:

   approx 3 pounds of honey (aka 1 quart) (from Digby)
   1 gallon of water

Was it Digby who used other measurements than weight for the amount of
honey? The quote "add honey until an hens egg floats to the width of a
groat" (or rather "adde honey until an hens egge "... :-) seems to
come to mind, but I can't remember where it comes from. I remember a
discussion on the homebrew mailing list a couple years ago about how
eggs are different sized now anyway, and did he mean until it showed
the circumference of a groat or the actual width and stuff like that.
Where can I get a copy of Digby anyway? Two excellent books on mead
are Papazian's & ?'s and another little pamphlet written by the
British Mead-Makers Association that was available in this country for
a little while. Someone walked away with my copy, and I'm pretty
depressed about it... The Papazian and ? (sorry, my copy's at home and
I can't remember the other author) is mostly about the history and
culture of mead, followed by a small section by Papazian on actually
making mead. 

Anyway, here's my recipe for cyser (mead made with cider instead of
water).

5 gallons apple cider (it helps to use a relatively tart cider)
5 lbs honey light honey.
2 sticks cinnamon
about 3/4 tablespoon of cloves
champagne yeast

Sterilize the cider. Reserve 2 gallons in fridge, and put the other
three in a pot. Heat gently, but don't boil. When it get's hot, slowly
add the honey, stirring all the time so that it doesn't stick to the
bottom of the pot. Keep it just below boiling, and skim off the scum
from the surface until it pretty much stops producing anymore (I've
never had the patience to take it all the way until it didn't foam
anymore, does it ever do that?). Throw in the spices and let sit
overnight/6 hours. Put it in a primary (large plastic bucket) along
with the reserved cider and yeast. In about 2 to 4 days the really
active fermentation should cease, at which time I rack it into a
secondary (5-gallon glass carboy). Throw on a fermentation lock, then
let it sit. I rack it every 3 months, and taste it. When it reaches a
point that I'm happy with (about a year and half), I bottle it and
then let it age in the bottle for another year to year and a half
(ain't delayed gratification fun!). It's fascinating how the flavor
keeps changing, sometimes all you can taste is honey, sometimes it's
apple, sometimes it's spice. Eventually they all blend together. The
result is a bit on the dry side, I think this year I'll try out
montrachet yeast instead.


...arun
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arun Welch
Lisp Hacker, Anzus Consulting
welch@anzus.com
From: sbloch@silver.cs.umanitoba.ca (Stephen Bloch)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: toxins in food
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:14:44 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada

dcryberg@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David J Cryberg) writes:
>For example, eating too many raw green beans
>is dangerous because of an enzyme present in the bean pod...or peanut
>butter has carcinogenic properties....etc....

On the peanut butter issue... that's a matter of aflatoxins, which are
produced by a mold (? bacterium?) that tends to infect not only peanuts
but all sorts of grains in storage.  My uncle, who's a microbiologist as
well as a serious California granola (i.e. consumes lots of peanuts and
whole grains), claims government inspection and hygiene regulations make
it a nonissue in the U.S. (and probably in Canada and western Europe).

-- 
					Stephen Bloch
				sbloch@silver.cs.umanitoba.ca
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: lrellick@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lorraine M Rellick)
Subject: speaking of toxins in food ...
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 12:30:07 GMT

Speaking of toxins... I have been wondering about this for years.
What is the bitter substance that sometimes occurs in vegtables - 
it seems especially if they come from your garden. Is it harmful,
or just taste awful? - LR

Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: jac54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: toxins in food
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:14:40 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.204404.2049@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> jheath@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Jim Heath) writes:
>From article <1992Sep1.195228.10021@mahendo.jpl.nasa.gov>, by julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas):
>> I was catching up on my reading when I noticed an article in
>> Science News that is relevant to this topic.  Germander and
>> comfrey teas and capsules may cause hepatitis.  A researcher
>> at the University of Arizona, Ryan Huxtable, says that
>> the chemical in germander and comfrey that causes hepatitis has
>> not yet been identified.  Huxtable advises against daily use
>> of herbal products.
>>
>
>I thought the way they talk at the blood center, that hepatitis
>is "caused" by a virus.

	Just about any liver disease can be called hepatitis.  That's
	why you ctach viral hepatitis.

	Alec Chambers
From: erck03@castle.ed.ac.uk (John Wexler)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Boiled Pudding Question?
Date: 4 Sep 92 09:40:54 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University Computing Service

In article <1992Sep3.164143.11107@tc.fluke.COM>, roger@tc.fluke.COM (Roger Hammerquist) writes:
|> In article <25368@castle.ed.ac.uk> erck03@castle.ed.ac.uk (John Wexler) writes:
|> >Baking was not widely used in domestic cookery until relatively
|> >recently, .......
|> >
|> >Scones represent one of the other traditions of ovenless cookery,
|> >although everybody makes them in the oven nowadays. But I won't write a
|> >discourse on scones just now.
|> >
|> Well, if you can't write it now, OK.  But do discourse on scones sometime, 
|> if you would, eh?  Sounds interesting.

Sorry, it turns out that it is not really interesting after all.  In
private e-mail, I have established that the scone is hardly
distinguishable from what is called a biscuit in America.

On my point that ovens did not feature much in domestic cookery, Terry
Nutter has challenged me quite correctly.  I did not mean to suggest
that oven baking was not known; it was in fact highly developed and
highly regarded from well before the Christian era.  What I should have
made clearer is that baking was largely done by professional bakers or
in fairly well-to-do households, because small houses/the common people
often had no ovens, and indeed no kitchens.  [Obviously that's a
generalisation, but this isn't the place to be more specific.]

And as for galingale, it has suddenly appeared in my local Safeway, so
maybe it will be more widely available.  Soak it before you grind it, to
make the job easier (I didn't make that up!).

    John Wexler
    Edinburgh
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: waks@world.std.com (Justin and Jane)
Subject: Re: Mead recipes?
Keywords: Digby
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:18:07 GMT

I got my copy of The Closet of Sir Kenelm Digbie Opened from
Esperanza's Books (The Tuckers, Pittsburgh PA). Mine is
a slipcased softcover facsimile, and is Volume VI from the
Mallinckrodt collection of Food Classics, Reproduction by
Mallinckrodt Chemical Works, 1967.

It's a facisimile right down to the age-discoloration spots
on the pages.  Most dealers in out-of-print books will
offer a search service, and will seek the book for you. (I
just got lucky.)  Of course, if every OP book dealer in 
the U.S. suddenly finds they're all looking for Digby
simultaneously.....

		Good hunting.
		
		Jane Waks 
		(another SCA cook - Caitlin Davies)
		waks@world.std.com
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Mead recipes?
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:52:48 GMT
Followup-To: rec.food.historic

Hi, everyone, from Terry.  Jeffery Scott asked about commercial meads, to
discover what "traditional mead" should taste like.  Schuldy says,

>All I can tell you, is that most of the commercial meads taste less
>pleasant than the stuff I make myself.  I have no idea whose is closer
>to "traditional taste".  I have tasted mead at agricultural fairs,
>made by bee-keepers, and it tasted like an alcoholic honey, not very
>sweet, but with all the complexity of that "honey flavor" that makes
>honey different from sugar.  What's traditional?  I dunno.

First: I have had commercial mead (one swallow) exactly once.  It stands out
vividly in my mind: it was the single foulest alcoholic beverage I have ever
tasted, including the mixed Sabra and (badly) homemade apricot brandy a
"friend" slipped me in college.  I mean, we are talking _vile_.  Someone
left the honey bear in the sun several _decades_ too long....

Try taking very old mead recipes, and making them.  Try making them with
as little flavoring aid as possible, and make smallish batches, with several
different honeys and several different yeasts (labeling clearly, of course).
This will probably give you as clear a notion of what the mead should taste
like compared to the original honey as it is possible to get.

Good luck!

-- Terry Nutter    Blacksburg, VA     jtn@vtopus.cs.vt.edu     (703)552-1598
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: bayla@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Bayla Singer)
Subject: Re: toxins in food
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:37:02 GMT

A session with a good reference librarian (perhaps in an ag library, or
home ec) would probably find you a lot of citation-type sources.  This is
just the sort of thing that librarians love getting their teeth into :-)

Two "foods" to look into are apple pits/seeds and acorns: I've heard rumors
that both contain amounts of cyanide which could be significant if eaten in
large quantities.  

There's a red mold which grows on wheat, and is widely thought to be the
source of hallucinations (and charges of witchcraft, etc) in stored wheat
during the middle ages.  I may have a ref somewhere: I remember seeing an
article on it about 15 years ago, and thought it fascinating.  One of the
biology teachers in the school I was at at the time used this same
micro-organism (invisble to the eye) as a harmless way of showing how germs
could be passed from one hand to another: she'd wipe some on the hand of
one student, have all the class shake hands and culture a wiping from their
palms... You may be sure those students took care washing their hands for
quite a while after!

--bayla
From: jac54@cas.org
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: toxins in food
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:22:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: cas.1992Sep3.162221.28412
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio

In article <1992Sep2.211444.7070@ccu.umanitoba.ca> sbloch@silver.cs.umanitoba.ca (Stephen Bloch) writes:
>dcryberg@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David J Cryberg) writes:
>
>On the peanut butter issue... that's a matter of aflatoxins, which are
>produced by a mold (? bacterium?) that tends to infect not only peanuts

	It's a filamentous fungus, _Aspergillus flavus_ (Hence Afla).

>but all sorts of grains in storage.  My uncle, who's a microbiologist as
>well as a serious California granola (i.e. consumes lots of peanuts and
>whole grains), claims government inspection and hygiene regulations make
>it a nonissue in the U.S. (and probably in Canada and western Europe).
>

	Depends, a couple of years ago there were concerns about
	aflatoxin levels in corn as a result of dry weather in the
	corn belt.  Don't underestimate aflatoxins, they are
	extremely toxic.
	^^^^^^^^^

	Alec Chambers.
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: bayla@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Bayla Singer)
Subject: Re: toxins in food
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:46:17 GMT


Sorry, Claviceps purpurea -isn't- the scientific name of the buggie I
remember.  i suspected it might be similar to, but not identical with,
ergot.  The micro-organism in question definitely feeds on wheat, and was
known to contaminate flour and such cooked breaststuffs as communion hosts.

--bayla
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: Ramon Tate
Subject: Re: Cloves
Organization: Computer Systems Lab., NIH
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 22:23:56 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.144325.18180@mahendo.jpl.nasa.gov>
julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas) writes:
>I saw this on rec.food.cooking and thought I'd repost it here
>(for the herbal lore aspect of this group)....
>
>>From: grimjack@milton.u.washington.edu (Leslie Basel)
>>Newsgroups: rec.food.restaurants,rec.food.cooking
>>Subject: Re: Why do people like hot-spicy food?
>>Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
>>
>>In article <1992Aug28.175248.5266@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> mgraham@zia.aoc.nrao.edu
(Maggie Graham) writes:
>>>	On a related note, I made a pork dish the other day that has
>>>	*a lot* of ground cloves in it. My husband and I both noticed
>>>	that the cloves seemed to make our tongues feel numb. He 
>>>	says the same thing happens when ever he has something that 
>>>	contains a significant amount of cloves in it. For me, it 
>>>	was the first time I experienced it. Anyone heard of this
>>>	happening? Any of the chemists (or anyone else) know why
>>>	it could happen? :) things to think about on a Friday afternoon...
>>>
>>	Clove oil has been used as a home remedy for toothache for a
>>long time.  You have to be careful, though because it'll get rid of the
>>symptoms, but not the cause.. 
>>
>>I don't know what's in it as an anethetic.  Maybe a menthol type of
>>active ingredient.
>>
>>Leslie Basel
>
The active (and predominant) ingredient in clove oil is eugenol, which is
chemically a phenol and thus has fairly good germicidal properties. Dentists
used it in earlier days - and still today in limited cases - as a general
sterilant in tooth cavities before they filled them. It was also used mixed
with zinc oxide, I think it was, to make a rubbery cement for holding temporary
crowns on, etc. You can see now why cloves were valued for their preservative
properties. One of the lab experiments we used to do in Microbiology of Foods
was to examine the microbial content of various spices; cloves rarely showed
any growth at all. On the other hand, ground (from a can) black pepper usually
was loaded with critters...

Phenols, like eugenol, also have an anaesthetic effect, which is what you
experienced. In fact, several common sore throat have either phenol itself or
hexylresorcinol, another phenolic compound, as their active ingredients.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ramon L. Tate
Computer Systems Laboratory, DCRT
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892                               tate@faxcsl.dcrt.nih.gov

Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: food@food.com
Subject: Re: A Roman recipe
Originator: tdng0812@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Organization: food.com
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 04:24:48 GMT
Keywords: Apicius, Roman, recipe

Sorry, no recipe here
-- 
____________________________________

____________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic