From: kendall@adobe.com (Janice Kendall)
Subject: Re: Am I "exploiting" this woman?
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:56:26 GMT


Rob, 

It's nice to see that one man understands the gist of what I was trying to
say.  The KKK calendar is a good analogy.

Thanks,
  Janice


In article <Bx9K6F.Gu1@news.cso.uiuc.edu> parker@ehsn17.cen.uiuc.edu () writes:
>kaarts@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Kenneth John Aarts) writes:
>
>>In <1992Nov3.195735.13037@adobe.com> kendall@adobe.com (Janice Kendall) writes:
>
>
>>> 2) Same with the offensive magazine - it should be read in private, not
>>>    public.  How would you feel if you walked up to a woman at lunch to
>>>    visit and then realized she was staring at a picture of some guy's
>>>    erect penis?
>
>>      This is very authorative, telling people what they can and cannot read in
>>your presence.  It is also pretty narrow.  I don't see why anybody should be
>>upset at the woman for reading an erotic magazine.
>
>Not everyone is bothered by such things.  Many people *would* find it
>uncomfortable; that is why it is "wrong".
>
>>> Guys, it can't be too much skin off your back to keep this stuff at home.
>>> Put it on the ceiling over your bed, in your bathroom, on your refrigerator,
>>> I don't care, but don't put it on your office wall.  I tend to avoid men
>>> who put such things on their office walls as I tend to feel that they have
>>> little respect for the women with which they work.
>
>>	This also seems to be a pretty narrow view of people.  Do you really
>>think that the fact that a women puts up a Chip & Dale's calender says anything
>>about what she thinks of you as an individual?
>
>Ditto above.
>
>>> An interesting experiment is to bring in similar material which features 
>>> the opposite sex and display it in a similar fashion - sometimes people 
>>> have to experience the discomfort themselves.
>
>>	And sometimes people have to realize that we are not all carbon copies
>>of each other. People can have different tastes.
>
>I read a paper about the obstacles that women face in Computer Science and
>Engineering (mostly CS, maybe all of it was CS).  A large section (or two) was
>dedicated to sexual harassment, mostly "soft" unintentional stuff.  (Stuff not
>done specifically to make women uncomfortable, but which causes that as an
>obvious side effect.)  One woman paraphrased in the study described a situation
>where she and other female coworkers were annoyed at the pin-up calendars
>displayed by the male workers in *obvious* places.  I believe their solution
>was to post their own similar material right next to it (or in similar places):
>The men got the hint and took their stuff down.  (I think they *did* complain
>first, getting a "what's the harm" response.)
>
>>	I myself plan to get a 1993 Sports Illustrated Swim Suit Calender
>>solely as a protest against the polically Incorrect Attitude that I shouldn't.
>
>I have no problem with what you or anyone else owns for your amusement.  The
>problem comes when you display things that would "obviously" make other people
>uncomfortable in areas that they can not be expected to avoid.  Posting a KKK
>calendar (if they make such things) in a publicly visible area would make
>members of most minorities rather uncomfortable.  That is wrong.  Even if you
>aren't "really" racist, to display such material *says* that you are and can be
>intimidating to minorities.  Similarly for you to display your SI Swim Suit
>Calendar on the wall behind your desk, or on the wall of your alcove, or
>whatever you have, *says* that you value women for their bodies and that will
>make women uncomfortable.  (not everyone will care, but some surely will)
>Ditto for a woman displaying a Chip & Dale's Calendar, which would make (some)
>men uncomfortable.
>
>If you have to have your SI calendar at work, try putting it someplace that
>won't force it on anyone who walks by or who comes to talk to you (about work).
>
>>Ken
>
>-Rob


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