HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Last chance for EMD E9's
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:33:39 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Virginia

BN F-9s

Is there anyone on the net who would like to swap some
F-9 or other Chicago area shots for something from my
collection?  If so, please contact me vie E-mail.

Thanks.
~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
From: richard@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Old cars never die, they just....
Date: 26 Aug 92 08:36:47 CDT
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <25757@dog.ee.lbl.gov>, b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman) writes:
> 
> I found the discussion of delivering new transit cars to the New York
> system interesting, and it led me to wonder what usually happens
> on the other end.  That is, are cars dismantled in the shops, and
> trucked away as scrap metal, or sent elsewhere?  I also imagine
> lots of parts might be salvageable for use on other cars of the
> same type.
> 
> I suppose similar questions arise with freight and intercity rail cars.
> Is the salvage value of materials/parts from old railcars usually
> more than the cost of scrapping it?

A few years ago, a friend's uncle had a contract with the Santa Fe to wreck
surplus freight cars and cabooses in Topeka.  We visited his operation one
time.

His contract specified that he cut the undercarriage out, return it to ATSF,
and do whatever he wanted with the rest.  Typically, he could sell the
cabooses, and would deliver them on a flatbed truck.  As for most of the
boxcars, he would burn out the wooden interiors, cut the rest up with a torch,
and sell the scrap steel.

He would also sell you a complete (minus the undercarriage) boxcar to use for a
farm shed.  To my untrained eye, these cars appeared to be in great shape --
made me wonder why they were being wrecked.  I seriously considered having one
delivered, but I didn't really have room on my lot here in the city.  Would
have made a great storage building, though.
-- 
					--- Richard

===============================================================================
|  Richard M. Kershenbaum          Bitnet:   richard@ukanvax                  | 
|  Manager, Technical Services     Internet: richard@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu       |
|  The University of Kansas        Fax:      (913)864-0485		      |
|  Computer Center                 Phone:    (913)864-0445                    |
|  Lawrence, Kansas 66045                                                     |
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com (John Mosbarger)
Subject: Steam at the Oregon State Fair
Organization: HP Cardiology Business Unit - McMinnville, OR
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:33:53 GMT

     Last year's Grand Safety Station (Operation Lifesaver) exhibit at the
Oregon State Fair must have been a success, because it's back again this
year.  This time around, though, the 4449 and SP&S 700 will be sharing the
spotlight, as both arrived in Salem yesterday.  Last year 4449 was at the
fair at the beginning, but had to leave for Dunsmuir for some "fence-mend-
ing" trips to bolster SP's image after their Cantara derailment.  The 700
then took it's place at the fair.  

     The fair starts today and runs through Labor Day.  I don't know if there
will be any other locomotives on display (like last year), but if there are,
I hope the steamers don't get in the way of photographing the diesels :-) :-).

John
-- 
John Mosbarger
HP McMinnville, OR
johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com
From: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: rail grinder in ames
Date: 4 Sep 1992 17:35:37 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


   Last May, I saw a Jackson-Jordan railgrinder working just west of the 
Downer's Grove, IL station on the BN Chicago-Aurora line.  It was just one
car/engine, and looked a little like a souped up GE 1974-line switcher.  It
seemed to be running back and forth over one 500ft section of track, and 
nowhere else.  What would be the purpose of an operation like this?  Smoothing
out a localized irregularity?

-- 
 o__II___---__---__---___I~~~|~______________    |~~~~~~|~~|~~~~~~| |~~~~~~|~~|
 _|______________________|___|_|     3000    `\  |      |  |      | |      |  |
/ o~~O-O-O-O-O~~O-O-O-O-O~~o~~~~o-o-o~~~~o-o-o~~~~o--o~~~~~~~~o--o~~~o--o~~~~~~
Evan Werkema---------------------------------------------------elw4@po.cwru.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org
Subject: Re: A few interurban questions
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA 01730
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 23:09:00 GMT

In article <92237.170135U18983@uicvm.uic.edu>
Tim Eisler <U18983@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
 
>
>In article <1992Aug22.182717.2989@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan
>L. Werkema) says:
>
><some text deleted>
>
>> Later in the trip, I visited Cudahy, WI, south of Milwaukee, and just
>> north of the C&NW depot was another brick building resembling a
>> substation/interurban station.  Any ideas on who that might have
>> belonged to?
>
>Perhaps that was the Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul.
>
There was not an interurban by that name.  "Chicago, Milwaukee and St. Paul"
was the earlier name for the "Milwaukee Road", officially "Chicago, Milwaukee,
Saint Paul and Pacific".  The "Pacific" was added when they built their ill-
advised western extension around the turn of the century.  The interurban that
once ran in the area of which you speak was the "Chicago, North Shore and
Milwaukee" aka "North Shore Line".
 
 
Len Bachelder        Archives Committee, Boston and Maine RR Historical Society
MITRE Corp.           Secretary, Massachusetts Bay Railroad Enthusiasts
Bedford MA 01730      Member, 470 Railroad Club
<M00209@mbvm.mitre.org>
 
"Amazing love, how can it be that Thou, my God, should'st die for me!"
                                                 - Charles Wesley
From: jps@dworkin.wustl.edu (James Sterbenz)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Signal type (was: Re: Semaphore Signals)
Date: 1 Sep 92 14:51:12 GMT
Organization: Washington University,  St Louis MO

In article <Bts4nn.D77@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> roma@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Roma) writes:
>elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema) writes:

>>  Around 1986, a sign with the letter "D" began to appear on the inoperative 
>>approaches signals of all the railroads I've seen.  It at least provides quick 
>>identification of the signal's purpose, but may have another meaning.  Just 
>>what the "D" stands for, I have no idea.

>The ``D'' stands for ``distant''.

Yes, and I beleive that the SP used the "D" earlier, but I'll have to check the
rule books.  This would seem to correspond to the time that ASTF joined with
SP in a joint rule book (UP also signed on the the General Code, but retained
its own section of signal aspects/indications.



--
James Sterbenz  IBM HPCC       (High Performance Computing and Communications)
                472 Wheelers Farms Rd. MS93           jpgs@watson.vnet.ibm.com
                Milford CT 06460-1844 USA                      +1 203 783 4380
From: waldin@concerto.lcs.mit.edu (Earl Waldin)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: What is an interlocking? (was: Signal type)
Date: 29 Aug 92 15:58:31 GMT
Reply-To: waldin@lcs.mit.edu
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, Massachussetts Institute of Technology

I have seen the term "interlocking" used a lot lately, mostly in conjunction
with signal descriptions.  I've figured out what block signals are but
I'm not quite sure what an interlocking is.  It appears to be a junction
where lines cross or merge.  Is this right?  Is the place where a siding
joins the main line also considered an interlocking?  Please help this
confused individual.

	Earl Waldin
	waldin@lcs.mit.edu
From: roma@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Roma)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Semaphore Signals
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:52:31 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

wbrill@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Warren Brill) writes:

>I drove out I-40 parallel to this route last summer, and noticed that the 
>semaphores all seemed to be pointing "up", while I didn't see a train for at
>least 150 miles one day. Does this mean that the "default" position (all
>right, I know mixing trains with computer terminology is risky :-) ) when
>a train isn't in the block in question is "go"?

This is an oversimplification but in signaled territory without centralized
traffic control (CTC), the default signal aspect is green.  In CTC territory,
the signals controlled by the dispatcher (i. e., the ones at the ends of
sidings) display red by default.  Intermediate block signals in CTC
territory are automatic block signals and are not controlled directly
by the dispatcher.   green is normally displayed in both directions on
intermediate signals when neither adjacent CTC control point is lined for
a train.  Of course, the signals approaching the red signals at a control
point display yellow.

Below is an example.  Signals are shown on the right of the track in the
direction they apply.

	      RR-|          YR-|            G--|                      R--|
  ----------+----------------------------------------------------+----------
    |--R   /                   |--G            |-RY         |-RR  \
          /                                                        \  R--|
  --------                                                          --------
    |--R

  <control point A>                                       <control point B>

When the dispatcher lines a route at a control point, the intermediate
signals in the opposite direction ``tumble down'' to red.  This is part of
the process that prevents an conflicting opposing move from being cleared at
at the adjacent control point.

This is what the signals would look like when a signal is lined from left
to right through control point ``A'':

	      RR-|          RR-|            R--|                      R--|
  ----------+----------------------------------------------------+----------
    |--G   /                   |--G            |-RY         |-RR  \
          /                                                        \  R--|
  --------                                                          --------
    |--R

  <control point A>                                       <control point B>

Thus in CTC territory, you can get some idea as to whether a train is lined
by the dispatcher.  However, this can take place hours before the train
actually appears.
-- 
Jon Roma
Computing and Communications Services Office,
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Internet:  roma@uiuc.edu      	UUCP:      uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!roma
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: olson@anchor.esd.sgi.com (Dave Olson)
Subject: Re: SFO airport to Davis?
Organization:  Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 18:55:02 GMT

In <1992Aug30.170938.1193@uwm.edu> dave@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Dave Rasmussen) writes:
| I need some advice from transit people in the SFO/Sacramento corridor.
| I need to connect from SFO airport to Davis. 
| 
| The obvious easy solution is to rent a car (I've reserved with Alamo
| for $24.99 a day for 4 days. This is my backup, but I'd rather use transit.)
| 
| My flight to SFO arrives Nov 5 at 21:10 if on time. This rules out
| connecting with #14 at Oakland.  What would you recommend I do to get
| to Davis by transit after say 21:30 from SFO airport?
| 
| On the way back I leave SFO at 12:50, so I would be inclined to take
| #721 from davis to Oakland and hope Amtrak still has a shuttle to Caltrain.
| Some old notes indicate that there is a samtrans bus
| that leaves the Millbrae Caltrain station for the airport?

Rail transit is nearly hopeless for this.  Even buses are somewhat
iffy.  You are probably looking at 3-4 times (minimum) the elapsed time
between SFO and Davis by any form of transit other than automobile.  It
is a bit less than 90 minutes by car at legal speeds.  Public transit
(or even the private bus companies) in this area are less than
wonderful on their schedules, particularly in the evening.  It might
well cost you more than a rental care also...

--
Let no one tell me that silence gives consent,  |   Dave Olson
because whoever is silent dissents.             |   Silicon Graphics, Inc.
    Maria Isabel Barreno                        |   olson@sgi.com
From: rfj@alpha.sunquest.com (RICHARD F. JONES)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Rail photos ... where do I ...
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:43:00 GMT
Organization: Sunquest Information Systems, Tucson AZ
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1


Greetings!!

I have taken several really good photos of trains and have had some 
enlarged to poster size.  Everyone I show them to comments on how I 
should get them published.  I took a trip on Amtrak in July and every 
employee I showed them to agreed ... get them published or on a 
calendar somewhere.

But I do not know where or how to do such a thing ... so hence this 
posting.   If you know of any magazine/publication/etc that would 
perhaps be interrested in seeing some of my photos, please let me know 
the name/address/phone and a contact person (if known).  

Thank you, in advance.

Richard Jones    rfj@alpha.sunquest.com  -  internet
From: jwj2@po.CWRU.Edu (Jerry W. Jordak)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Updated timetables
Date: 4 Sep 1992 02:49:49 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: jwj2@po.CWRU.Edu (Jerry W. Jordak)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


I live in Cleveland, OH, and use a Conrail Pittsburgh Division timetable
with my scanner to track train movements, etc. However, the timetable
is dated 1/15/89, and since that time CR has changed some radio channels,
abandoned a couple lines, etc. Is there any chance of obtaining a current
timetable thru Conrail? Has anyone tried this before? Would they go along
with it? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanx,
-Jer
-- 
Jerry W. Jordak                    What to do I find it hard to know
a.k.a. Jermaster                   The road I walk is not the one I chose    
(jwj2@po.cwru.edu)                                                  -Yes
(jerryj@railnet.nshore.ORG)
From: larsenp@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Paul Larsen)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: F7 in Watseka, IL
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:32:18 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Purdue University

On my way back from a Colorado vacation, I drove through Watseka, IL.
Just visible between some buildings was an F7 sitting on the UP/TP&W
interchange.  It was a yellow engine with as far as I could see no lettering
and it was in between a bunch of freight cars as if it was being interchanged.
Any info on this engine would be appreciated.


Paul B. Larsen
larsenp@mace.cc.purdue.edu
From: salfi@53iss6.Waterloo.NCR.COM (Mike Salfi)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: CSX in Atlanta
Date: 4 Sep 92 12:02:53 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Imaging Systems Division, NCR Corp, Waterloo, Ont., CANADA

I was in Atlanta earlier this week and was checking out local freight
traffic when I saw an interesting combination of diesels heading a
freight train.
The lead diesel was B&O, followed by a Seaboard, and then a CSX diesel.
I assume CSX was formed by merging B&O and Seaboard or are these diesels
just being rented by CSX?
Can anyone provide more information.

Thanks,
Mike Salfi
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Subject: Armco Lima E123
Reply-To: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 05:47:20 GMT


   Last May, Dan Dawdy posted a gif (WWV123) of Armco Steel's 1200hp Lima 
switcher E123 shortly after it was sold to the Whitewater Valley Scenic RR in 
Connersville, IN.  From the gif, one can make out the remains of the Erie
Diamond on the front, and closer examination reveals "Erie" written along
the hood doors.  Armco-Middletown did get Limas second-hand from Erie, but 
several sources (notably _Extra 2200 South_ #88 p.26) list E123 as ex-B&O 
#9376.  Can someone with access to the disposition of B&O's and Erie's Limas 
verify which one became E123?

-- 
 o__II___---__---__---___I~~~|~______________    |~~~~~~|~~|~~~~~~| |~~~~~~|~~|
 _|______________________|___|_|     3000    `\  |      |  |      | |      |  |
/ o~~O-O-O-O-O~~O-O-O-O-O~~o~~~~o-o-o~~~~o-o-o~~~~o--o~~~~~~~~o--o~~~o--o~~~~~~
Evan Werkema---------------------------------------------------elw4@po.cwru.edu
From: schumann@msus1.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: K B & S     What is it ?????????????
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:44:02 GMT
Organization: Minnesota State University System

In article <8152@dirac.physics.purdue.edu>,
stnd@gibbs.physics.purdue.edu (Scott N. Dickson) writes:
> 
> 
> I live just west of Lafayette, Indiana.  The former NKP, NYC line
> that parallels US 52 is pretty close, close enough that I cross
> it several times a day.  I know it wasn't abandoned, but traffic
> had really dwindled.  But lately, judging by the flange marks in
> the dirt at the crossings and the "shinyness" of the rails,
> traffic has really picked up.  I finally saw a train on this
> line, but what a surprise!!
> 
> The engines were marked "K B & S".  What is the K B & S????  Its
> not listed in my Rand McNally Railroad Atlas.  Is this a new
> short-line?  Does anybody out there have any information?
> 
> The engines themselves looked pretty beat up, like when you apply
> new paint to an old car without doing any bodywork or surface
> prep.  I'm not good at model numbers, but my guess would by
> GP9's.  They were high nose.  The lead engine was smoking badly,
> as if it was badly out of tune or pre-emissions (do locomotives
> have to conform to a federal emissions standard?).  I can't say
> for sure whether or not the second loco was running.  They were
> moving pretty well,  I'm guessing 45mph.  There were
> approximately 5 grain hopper type cars in the train.
> 
> Any information about this operation would be greatly
> appreciated.
> 
> BTW, I love this group.  I post about twice a year.  But the
> signal-to-noise ratio in this group is better than any other
> group I read.  There are so many knowledgeable people out there,
> from the many steam volunteers, to the real modern railroaders
> like Steve Hooper, to the subway archeologists like Joe Brennan. 
> There are so many of you I haven't mentioned, I'm sorry.  You all
> make this worth reading.  I've learned so much!  Thanks,
> rec.railroad 'ers   

I believe this would be the Kankakee, Beaver...(something ... maybe 
Beaverville?  My memory is a bit hazy on this -- look for a small town 
on your road atlas that begins with Beaver), and Southern.  As I 
recall, the KB&S was one of the early short-line spin-offs.  I'm not 
sure exactly when it started business, but I want to say it was in the 
mid to late 1970s.  I'm somewhat familiar with the line because a 
close friend of mine stored his North Coast Limited Pullman sleeping 
car on the line for a while during that era and I would sometimes help 
him with the restoration (which is still underway, BTW).
--
   Paul L. Schumann, Ph.D.           |  VAX:  IN%"schumann@MSUS1.MSUS.EDU"
   Professor of Management           |  Office Phone:       (507) 389-5349
   Mankato State University          |  Secretary's Phone:  (507) 389-2966
   Mankato, MN   56002-8400          |  Fax Number:         (507) 389-5497
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: cal@ee.ryerson.ca (Calvin Henry-Cotnam)
Subject: Re: Semaphore Signals
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 02:13:28 GMT

In article <BtpDJy.CMB@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> roma@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Roma) writes:
>This is an oversimplification but in signaled territory without centralized
>traffic control (CTC), the default signal aspect is green.  In CTC territory,
>the signals controlled by the dispatcher (i. e., the ones at the ends of
>sidings) display red by default.  Intermediate block signals in CTC
>territory are automatic block signals and are not controlled directly
>by the dispatcher.   green is normally displayed in both directions on
>intermediate signals when neither adjacent CTC control point is lined for
>a train.

In some situations this is true.  Here are two differing examples right
here in Toronto:


CPR - Belleville Sub - mile 199.5 (Kennedy) to mile 204.2 (Don Mills)

On each of the two CTC controlled tracks, when the RTC (that's
Canadian for dispatcher -- Rail Traffic Controller) lines a control
point for traffic in one direction, the intermediate signals in the
opposite direction tumble to red.  After a train has passed, and if
no other traffic has been lined, signals in both direction cycle
to thier most permissive aspect.  This is what was described above.


CNR - Kingston Sub - Mile 325.2 (Scarborough) to Mile 321.2 (Guildwood)

On each of the three CTC controlled tracks, when the RTC lines a control
point for traffic in one direction, the intermediate signals in the
opposite direction tumble to red, and remain that way until such a time
that traffic is lined for thier direction.  The intermediate signals
in the direction lined will cycle to red as a train passes then cycle
back to its most permissive aspect as the train moves further down the
line.  This differs slightly from the above description.


As described in the earlier post, the "most permissive" aspect for an
intermediate signal depends on its location relative to the next CTC
control point that generally stays at red until traffic is lined by
the RTC.  I do say "generally" as some systems allow for automatic
cycling at control points.  For example, at a location where several
trains are to pass along the same route in the same direction, it is
sometimes possible to line the route once and select the automatic
cycling feature to eliminate the need to re-line the route for each
train.  Thus the signals would appear to operate as the intermediate
block signals as a train passes and moves down the line.  Of course,
at some point the RTC would eventually line the CTC control point for
other movements or switch off the automatic cycling and cause the signals
to revert back to their usual red indication.


Calvin Henry-Cotnam, CATE            |    MY CANADA INCLUDES CANADIANS!
Ryerson Polytechnical Institute      | I would really like this to include
Toronto, Ontario, Canada             | Quebec - but I won't hold my breath.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Subject: Re: Tehachapi Re:  High Speed Rail in Southern California
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 12:08:20 GMT

BEST PICTURE

My best picture is a pair of WP Geeps in Niles Canyon pulling
a rail train.  The engines are nicely framed by vegetation.  
I used a cross screen filter which made the headlight look 
like a star (kitsch, but it is a nice effect and not overdone
here).
~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
From: cleveland@gold.gvg.tek.com (cleveland)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Most spectacular passenger routes
Date: 1 Sep 92 21:27:40 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

>>Other great scenic rides that you can still take by regularly scheduled
>>passenger train, though I wouldn't think they'd qualify to be among the top
>>ten in the world, would be:
>>
> (several scenic routes omitted)
>
 I must add to all this the Seward turn of the Alaska Railroad.
 This southern excursion out of Anchorage offers incredible scenery
 and abundant wildlife (moose, bear, eagles, etc.) with a casual approach
 by the train crew who happily cater to the riders.
 At one point the train backed up a hundred feet so that photgraphers
 could get a better shot. The train even stopped once so that a woman
 passenger who had never touched snow could make a snowball.

 A wonderful all day trip - shouldn't be missed.

 regards,

 Grover Cleveland
 The Grass Valley Group Inc.