From: kmubarak@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Kamal Mubarak MD)
Subject: Re: sex in hereafter (was Re: the terminator part n : )
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 06:37:37 GMT

Gopal writes:

>I did not miss Zafar Minhas's post. It is good that muslims today are
>tending to use non-sexist interpretations. The only problem remains is
>that you do not recognize your interpretation as a change to what was
>hithereto practised. Islam is changing (albiet very slowly) by new
>interpreters like you but you refuse to see that (or admit that) because
>admitting change is like blasphemy to you, isn't it ?!

My dear Gopal, you missed  the  point  completely.  You see, I am *not*
interpreting the Qura'n.  Not at all.  I am only giving you a *literal*
*translation*. It is you who is *interpreting* the Qura'n, and that too
in a sexist manner.  Have you forgotten?  Let me quote for you your own
writings. You begin the discussion by stating very clearly:

  MEN who go to heaven will be serviced by young VIRGINs. (Seems like someone
  was letting their sexual fantasies run awild. No mention is made if WOMEN
  are serviced by young STUDs).

You have not asked a question. You have made a definite *statement*. So
I point out to you by quoting the Qura'n that this is not  so  and  you
should not be making such statements. And Zafar Minhas points out that:

  The word hoor in Arabic from the Quran does not imply women in Heaven as a
  reward for living the pious life....The word hoor in Arabic and as
  translated in the Quran means a heavenly partner....The Quran does not
  specify male or female, and hoor is a word that implies neither male
  nor female.  [Edited.]

Do you accept your mistake and apologize like a gentleman? No! You must
now go and look up a second translation of the Qura'n and state:

  It seems that the interpretation that you have is actually trying to
  hide the sexist connotations.

I point out to you once again what Zafar has posted.  You now  seem  to
have lost the battle.  But do you apologize for you mistake?  Of course
not! You must now try and change the  subject.  You  label  my  literal
translation of the original as a mere new  interpretation  which  is  a
change from "what was hitherto practiced". Well my dear Gopal, we  have
not been discussing Islamic practices.  Only what the Qura'n says.  And
then you go one step further and throw another  red  herring  into  the
discussion.  You state that I am unwilling the accept "change"  because
"admitting change is like blasphemy" to me.  Don't you  see, I  am  not
changing anything.  I am only giving you a literal translation  of  the
of the verses as originally revealed.

Would you be a gentleman and accept that:

1.  You did not have  adequate  knowledge  on  the  subject, but  still
resorted to making categorical statements about what the Qura'n says?

2.  That  you  interpretation  was  sexist  while the original Qura'nic
verses on this subject are not?

3.  That you have persisted in maintaining that  sexist  interpretation
despite evidence to the contrary from both myself and Zafar?

4.  That you have tried to deflect the discussion to another  topic  so
you don't have to apologize?

Something tells me that you may not have the moral courage to do so.

Which brings us to the question as to why you  persist  in  maintaining
that these verses are sexist  despite  evidence  to  the contrary.  One
possibility is that you have a hidden agenda to promote (that Islam  is
sexist).  But there is even a better one.  You have  publicly  admitted
that your religion is sexist and that you still believe in parts of it.
Is it possible that psyche is so influenced by your religion that  when
you read the Qura'n you can only interpret it in a sexist  manner?  And
even when evidence is presented to  the  contrary, you  can  not  bring
yourself to change your interpretation?

But if you want to maintain this sexist stance please do so.  At  least
this way you get to read the  Qura'n.  Who  knows  one  day  you  might
achieve your nirvana in a Muslim heaven with multiple female  Hurs  for
your orgiastic pleasure.

Kamal [Hum  ko  ma'aloom  hai  *HuroN* ki  haqeeqat  laikin
       Dil kai khush rakhnay ko Gopal yeh Khayal achcha hai] Mubarak.

Apologies to Ghalib.
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