From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 10:57:26 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.151453.7988@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>In article <1993Jan5.065144.1918@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> abde@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Tamer A. Abdelgawad) writes:
># In <1993Jan5.024625.1717@ennews.eas.asu.edu> (David Makowsky) writes:

># >	Providing a context also helps justify for two other reasons.
># >One, it shows the neighborhood Israel is trying to survive in.
># >Certain behaviors which are not acceptable under certain conditions
># >may be acceptable in others.

># >	Two, the full range of facts and opinions on any given subject are
># >almost always never available.  Usually things are presented according
># >to the bias of those presenting them.  When someone presents material
># >in a hypocritical fashion by not providing the whole side, one can
># >assume that what is being given is being given in such a way as to
># >maximize the point of view that the presenter is trying to impress.
># >It might be that were everything (or at least more) presented, the
># >presenter's point of view might not have much sympathy.  In other
># >words, the credibility of the presenter is a key issue and therfor it
># >is relevent to bring up things like what would happen to Jewish
># >members of terrorist organizations in Arab countries.
 
># You seem to forget two simple facts:
 
># 1) You are not dealing with Arab governments in this case.  You are 
>#    dealing with individuals.  So your argument is basically:  Since
>#    Arab countries would probably do worse (remember, your whole premise
>#    is hypothetical, after all), Israel is justified.  That argument won't
>#    get you very far.

>	I did not forget I am dealing with individuals and not with Arab
>governments.  That point is not relevent anyway.  I am not claiming
>that Israel is justified simply because Arabs do worse.  I am claiming
>that those who fail to point out Arabs would do worse are good
>candidates to be providing information that does not point out other
>significant facts which could change the sympathies of the readers if
>they knew them.

Now you're just being silly.  While it would be a sign of bias to
condemn one country for doing something which you support another
country doing, no one has to go around posting things like:

"The deportation of 400 alleged Hamas members is awful.  It's against
international law, it's stupid, and it won't do any good.  Oh, and by
the way, Iraq would have killed them."

>	I am also claiming that the neighborhood Israel lives in could
>justify certain actions that would otherwise not be justifiable.  I am
>not claiming that this automatically justifies those actions.

Well, either it does justify it or it doesn't.  If you're claiming it
doesn't, then there's no point in bringing it up.  If you're claiming it
does, then you're claiming it does.

># 2) The Arab governments are not conductiong discussions on USENET.  You
>#    and I are.  And the fact that I am Egyptian, or that I like french fries
>#    doesn't make my arguments any better or any worse.

>	Just as in any court of law, a persons background is relevent when
>it comes to the question of credibility.  It does not, in and of
>itself, make or break credibility.  This applies to me, you, and the
>man on the moon.

># You are wrong if you think you are presenting an 'eye for an eye' argument.
># That presupposes that the response is directed at the same person who 
># initiated the attack.  In your (hypothetical) case, the Arab governments
># attack, and the deportees are punished for it.

>	I am not making an "eye for an eye" argument (although I probably
>could).  I am making a "If you are a threat I will deal with you
>before you have a chance to deal with me" argument.

Which is usually the sign of a dictatorship, not a democracy.

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | Is it too early to start making predictions for 1993?
niepornt@phoenix.    | Probably, but that never stopped me before.
   princeton.edu     | ALE: Baltimore ALW: Chicago NLE: Montreal NLW: Atlanta
Baltimore Orioles 93 | AL MVP: Cal Ripken  AL Cy Young: Mike Mussina
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic