From: assist@orion.oac.uci.edu (ASSIST Coordination Site)
Subject: Re: Feminist Perspective of Batman Returns
Newsgroups: rec.arts.movies
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:03:10 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.094342.73@news.uwyo.edu> rtravsky@news.uwyo.edu (Rich Travsky) writes:
>A good post, lots to digest, so just a coupla qwik comments. Real
>easy to over indulge here.    (Many deletions to save space...)
>
>In article <poznikof.711847807@sfu.ca>, poznikof@fraser.sfu.ca
>   (Kenneth Shane Poznikoff) writes:
>
>> On the other hand, there were some very confusing messages sent out by 
>> the movie.  
>>
>It was a confused movie period.  But I had fun for all that.
>
>> For example, the cat woman:
>> Yeah sure she is sexy but she also stands for women's liberation.  
>                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Most assuredly this is probably the primary association one is to make,
>but I also saw her as Everyperson (is that PC enough?), rebelling against
>the de-humanizing environment.
>
>> Then when Cat Woman and Batman are fighting he ends up knocking her
>> down and she says "How could you,  I'm a woman".  That is so pathetic.
>> This sends out a very negative message about the women's movement.  If, 
>> for a moment, we take the view that she represents a positive image of 
>> woman (ie strong and powerful, knowing what she wants) this scene 
>> completely negates all of her strong attributes.  She has reverted to 
>> a meek stereotypical woman.  It trivializes the feminist movement.
>>
>Bzzzt! Wrong! That's not how I saw the scene (or anyone else in my area
>that I talked with). CW plays BM for a sap, playing on HIS stereotypes.
>Once he's close enough, he gets kicked for his efforts.
>
>> And when the Penguin says that line about "pussy".  (I think it was
>I couldn't believe they had the guts to put this line in. Truly amazing.
>
>> I have no idea what to make of the (obvious) parallel of the Penguin
>> being dropped in a basket to float down the creek and the story of
>> Moses.
>>
>Penguin is the Anti-Moses? (sorry, couldn't resist) 
> 
>> I feel that the film had nothing positive to say about women, yet
>I don't want to jump too far into this one. The one thing I'll
>add for certain is that CW shows is that you can't repress someone
>forever. Their spirit will rise (in some form).
>
>> Still, the image of (Cat)woman (strong, independent), juxtaposed
>> with her psychotic (feeble-minded) nature seems to be a reflection of
>                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Feeble-minded? I did not see anything feeble-minded at all about her.
>
>> some male's view of the women in the feminist movement.  Someone
>> pointed out to me that except for her psychotic nature, the Catwoman
>> may actually represent a strong/powerful female character, without
>> having to adorn the female with masculine qualities.   Let me explain.
>Evil tends to me more fascinating than good. This is a notion that goes 
>back to Milton's Paradise Lost (if not further). Darth Vader is more
>interesting than (the bland) Luke Skywalker, for example. If CW were
>not a touch psychotic, the character would have been really dull...Her
>psychotic nature lends motivation and energy.
>
>> scenes in a different light, I see very negative, reactionary 
>> notions, for example, the psychotic nature of (Cat)woman.
>>
>BM is also supposed to borderline psychotic, something the first BM movie
>tried to portray, with mixed degrees of success. But this is another 
>topic...
>
 Richard Travsky   RTRAVSKY @ CORRAL.UWYO.EDU


 ** Could you people PLEASE lighten up!  This was a fictional movie
    based on a comic strip.  I don't believe their intention was 
    to make any political statements, positive or negative, about 
    society, feminism, etc.  Now, I guess producers and directors
    have to worry about making politically correct movies too :-) !

 ** Kristina **  

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