HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (E. Kontei)
Subject: Re: BTAS: silly villians
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:02:23 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.140731.23459@b30.ingr.com>, mueller@b30news.b30.ingr.com ( Phil Mueller ) writes:
> 
> >And as such, villains and heroes who routinely break the laws of science
> >are his stock-in-trade. 
> But *Batman* doesn't do this.

No, but many of the classic Batman villains do.

> >                         I should mention that ALL the villains mentioned
> >above come from the BATMAN comic book.
> 
> Which brings up another question:  
> Should BTAS be absolutely faithful to BTCB?

As much as they can get away with.  The big mistake with the recent Batman
movies is that they threw the comic book story through the window and made
their own interpretations of the characters, and in the process lost what
had made the comic book good in the first place!
-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			The Incredible Man-with-no-Life
			      jester@ihlpm.att.com
		    Disclaimer: You're not dealing with AT&T
From: emru@CAM.ORG (Emru Townsend)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: Poor writing in anime (Was: Cheap animatio
Date: 12 Dec 92 02:20:44 GMT
Organization: MegaCorp Central Complex

In article <1g8djfINN4e8@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> lerouxm@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (Markie Mark) writes:
>
>Come on people!  
>
>The reason big eyes are used in US and Japan is to give the characters
>*life*.  
>
>Eyes are the window to the soul.  If you want to give the character 
>*soul* give them large expressive eyes.  It is a convention that
>has worked for decades.
>
>IMHO Disney is able to create expressive eyes that convey many 
>emotions whereas anime eyes are just
>plain big.  It is as if the anime characters are thinking "OHH SHIT!!"
>all the time.

Big eyes are also cuter and more innocent.  Ever notice it's mainly the
cute/young characters with the biggest eyes?

-- 
This message is brought to you by     |    Emru Townsend  BIX: switch
MACHEESMO, a MAN's kind of cheese!    |    emru@cam.org   Fido: 1:167/133
From: Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: AKIRA the movie
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
Date: 11 Dec 92  03:10:28

>    I was wondering how come no one mentioned 
> AKIRA the movie.. it has the 
>animation effects that I have ever seen.  The 
>animation is very fluid and 
>takes care of very details.. even those that most 
>people would not notice..
>In short .. it was the best animation film that I 
>have ever seen.. you 
>should see it to believe it.               


 MM> Yes, it is good.  I enjoyed it though it still had plot problems.

 MM> I just wanted to say this in case anybody thought I was a professional
 MM> anime basher.
 I thought the character designs in Akira were a start (no saucered-eyed
people) but it just had too much blood an gore that took away from the movie
and sorry to say, I thought it looked more like spilled red ink all over the
animation than a piece of quality animation.

--- Maximus 2.00
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: mueller@b30news.b30.ingr.com ( Phil Mueller )
Subject: BTAS: prime time
Organization: Intergraph
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 02:32:53 GMT


Prime time premiere -- "I am the Night"

Brrrrr, they sure started off with a dark one.  Too dark, I think.
"Nothing to Fear" is just as good, a little lighter, and more in keeping
with the rest of the series.  I suppose Fox figured that most adults
tuning in would expect the movie, but NtF is, IMO, closer to the movie.

In fact <ego trip alert> I would program the Sunday nights as follows:

Nothing to Fear
first Madhatter episode
I am the Night
Two Face pt 1
Two Face pt 2
second Madhatter episode
Vendetta
Beware the Gray Ghost
First Catwomam episode
Almost Got 'Im

I'm sure I missed a couple of good ones.
But, I deliberatly left out "Heart of Ice" ( see previous post ).

Phil, the computer^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H tv programmer.
-- 
Phil Mueller    mueller@b30news.b30.ingr.com
The preceeding opinions are not necessarily those of Intergraph Corporation.
From: cs64fad@sdcc8.ucsd.edu (Robert Cook)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: Why is animation for kids?
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:03:37 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Dec10.184323.1@vaxb.acs.unt.edu> ij59@vaxb.acs.unt.edu writes:
>Well, with Anime Flame War '92 v2.0 in full swing, I am reminded of a question
>I've had for a while about the general _attitude_ about America and animation.
>
>So, my question is, "Why?"
>
>How did this attitude come about?

I can't say that I *know*, but it might have begun with the subject
matter Walt Disney chose for his features.  Cartoons created
commercially basically started out as short subjects shown with
regular films at movies theaters.  The attitude then does not appear
to be that animation was for children.  But Disney selected a fairy
tale (Snow White, of course) for his first feature.  Fairy tales are
enjoyed by many adults, but they are still considered children's
stories by the American "public consciousness," as I see it.  Disney
really liked this "kiddie-fare," so he kept making animated features
in this vein.  Reading a few old reviews of these films, a number of
critics specifically pointed out that the subject matter was for
kids, but that adults would also enjoy Disney's movies.

Then came...<drum roll>...TV.  Some newer studios (like
Hanna-Barbera) found that cartoons made for TV were very appealing
to a *young* market.  The rest is pretty intuitive.

This attitude has changed somewhat in the U.S. recently, with
more broadly appealing movies like Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin.
Hopefully this trend will continue.


- Robert Cook
From: ray.rooney@satalink.com (Ray Rooney) 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Sherlock Hound (was defending animation)
Date: 14 Dec 92 23:00:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Datamax/Satalink Connection * Ivyland, PA (215) 443-9434
Reply-To: ray.rooney@satalink.com (Ray Rooney) 

To: Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org

KE> Thankks for the information on where to find them... I think I also heard
KE>some people mentioning Kay Bee toys as a place to find them.  Do you know th
KE>name of the company putting out Sherlock Hound?  I might be able to find it
KE>my local video store (they carry 3 different areas of animation).  I think
KE>I'll check Kay Bee also and see if they have any left in stock.

They're put out (under the "Just For Kids" label by:
                   Celebrity Home Entertainment, Inc.
                   P.O.Box 4112
                   Woodland Hills, CA 91365-9797

They also have some butchered anime like Space Firebird.

Better editions are available from them at $39.95.


 * SLMR 2.1a * Don't take life too seriously, it's not permanent.
From: cs64fad@sdcc8.ucsd.edu (Robert Cook)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: Poor writing in anime (Was: Cheap animation)
Date: 11 Dec 92 17:33:44 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Dec10.070214.4554@news2.cis.umn.edu> avatar@wings.micro.umn.edu (Timothy Fay) writes:
>Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org wrote:
>>
>> RA> Just a suggestion: Take a good look at Disney`s pathetic 
>> RA> Little Mermaid and at HER SAUCER EYES !!!
>> Ariel in no way had SAUCERED eyes!!!  Do you see multiple white specs in her 
>>eye, or is it correctly done with just 1 white spec at all times!!
>
>Actually, she did have oversized oculars, but I'm not sure if its because
>Disney was trying to copy Japanese animation, or due to the fact that
>Glen Keane doesn't draw very well.

Maybe you haven't looked at enough of Glen Keane's work.  Some great
examples are the bear fight in The Fox and the Hound, the battle
between Ratigan and Basil in The Great Mouse Detective, Marahute the
eagle in The Rescuers Down Under, and Beast in Beauty and the Beast.
Look at the power and the movement--he's one of Disney's best, IMHO.

As for his *human* (or mermaid) characters, such as Ariel (The
Little Mermaid) and Aladdin, they admittedly look second-rate.  But
let's not make too broad a statement about his skills.


- Robert Cook
From: collins_w@cubldr.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Garfield nails NBC
Date: 20 Dec 92 04:13:26 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder


   Did anyone else catch the beginning of Garfield today? Garfield
said something like "Kids: Don't bother checking NBC, they aren't
running cartoons anymore". Good one.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|				  Neil Collins				      |
| For email responses, please say the mail is "For Neil" on the subject line. |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: ssquier@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Sean Alan Squier)
Subject: Re: Trip down Memory Lane
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:45:25 GMT

In article <ByzzyA.9DB@ccu.umanitoba.ca> umcho000@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Connie Cho) writes:
>In article <1992Dec4.172503.2850@wuecl.wustl.edu> tsb1@cec1.wustl.edu (Tonya Suzette Bartow) writes:
>>
>>And of course the most fun of all:  School House Rock!  A traveling a capella
>>group did a 15 minute medley of SHR during their show and we were all rolling
>>here.  I seem to remember seeing SHR almost once an hour when I was little,
>>but last time I turned on the Saturday cartoons they only showed one the
>>whole morning.  How are today's kids going to learn their multiplication
>>tables?  Or the preamble?  Or their adverbs?  "Lolly lolly lolly get your
>>adverbs here..."

>and parts of the song. Overall, though, the producers should be
>commended.

Well, you could start by sending a man named Michael Eisner a thank
you letter.  He was the man behind SchoolHouse Rock...He didn't write
it, but he put it on the air.  Thanks Mike!  He also came up with the
Wuzzles and the Gummi Bears cartoon, inspired by his daughters candy.
(If you don't believe me, all this and more can be found in THE PRINCE
OF THE MAGIC KINGDOM or THE DISNEY TOUCH) =-)



Sean Squier
(Future CEO - The Walt Disney Company)
ssquier@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
From: Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: Perception of Japanimation
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
Date: 16 Dec 92  05:29:40

 RPG> Disney has carved a niche, indeed, but maybe they 
 RPG> would at least try something
 RPG> a little different and say, release it under 
 RPG> Touchstone (like WfRogerRabbit).
 RPG> It couldn't hurt their strangle hold on things.  
 RPG> (Plus, Katzenburg wouldn't
 RPG> pass up anything that would make $$$)
 That is a good ides (for Disney to release a more mature animated feature
under their Touchstone label).  They did do that with "Who Framed Roger
Rabbit" and that took in big $$$ in 1988, albeit I only count that as 1/2 of
an animated film because it was partly live action also.  
 Who knows?   They may just do that in the future if the trend towards more
mature animation continues.  (And I don't mean "girls with guns" either!). 
What I think will happen is that Disney will slowly evolve (it is starting to 
happen already) where their films will get more mature and this could lead to 
them showing more mature animation and making some movies out of their
Touchstone unit if the demand for animation continues to grow.  It could be
until 1995 or later for this to happen though given the speed Disney does
things.  
 But in order for the above to even happen, there has to be a market for
responsible mature animation (I don't think Disney will stoop itself to doing 
"girls with guns" or blood and gore even with the Touchstone label) which is
growing right now but we have a long way to go.  And no, teen-age fanboy
animation WILL NOT DO.  All that will do is send us back to square one.    

--- Maximus 2.00
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: synth@deepthought.unm.edu (Synth F. Oberheim)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation,rec.arts.anime
Subject: Re: Defending anime (was Re: Cheap animation)
Date: 18 Dec 92 21:39:01 GMT
	<73sXVB2w165w@noncomf.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca>
Organization: SynthMedia Productions Ltd -- Now Appearing Nightly With DON HO


thespian@noncomf.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Stephanie M. Clarkson) writes:

Stephanie> anime = ANN - i - MAY
Stephanie> the I should be very short, like "its"

Actually you're pronouncing it with an American accent. :-)  It should be
spoken more like AHH-NEE-MEH.


emartine@digi.lonestar.org (Edgar Martinez) writes:
 
Edgar> Why is the word "Japanimation" considered inappropiate?

Since World War II, the term "jap" was used as a racial slur, and while
the word "japanimation" was coined more as a clever dovetail of "japan"
and "animation", some people hear it -- or say it -- as "jap animation".
If you prefer not to unintentionally sound like a racist to some folks,
it's best to just call it "anime".


==============================================================================
    :: :: :: :: ::     Synth F.   synth@deepthought.unm.edu    U S E N E T   
 :: :: :: :: :: :: ::  Oberheim   synth@yenta.alb.nm.us             in color!
==============================================================================
"A dozen pizzas?  Oh, it's those damn KIDS!"
From: ynecgan@cid.aes.doe.CA (Greg Neill)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Saying from "Thunderbirds"
Summary: What is "FAB"?
Keywords: Thunderbirds, FAB
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:30:56 GMT
Organization: HNSX Supercomputers Inc.

Hello,
  I'm not certain that this is the appropriate forum for this question,
but I here goes anyways.

  The "Supermarionation" series "Thunderbirds" has recently begun
airing in my viewing area.  The characters frequently use the term
"F.A.B." (pronounced eff-eh-bee), when conducting dialog over their 
radios, and it usually comes as an acknowledgment to an accepted order 
or suggested course of action.  The question is, what does F.A.B. stand
for?  
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Neill,               | "When you travel around as much as I do, it's
HNSX Supercomputers   Inc.|  almost inevitable that you'll run into yourself
ynecgan@cid.aes.doe.ca    |  at some point"  -- Dr. Who
From: JVI100@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: WANTED: STAR BLAZERS
Date: 15 Dec 92 01:10:21 GMT
 <1992Dec14.022622.25941@ncsu.edu> <1ghq2kINN5lh@bigboote.WPI.EDU>
Organization: Penn State University


     Sorry, I can into this conversation late, and missed some of the
  eariler postings, so I hope I don't repeat what has already been said.

     The question is: I've only seen two of the story arcs in Star Blazers
  (The one when they went to get the cosmo D.N.A, and the Comet Empire one).
  I had heard, years ago, that there were one or two other story arcs,
  which I have never seen. Can anybody tell me, briefly, what they were
  about, and if they were any good. No spoilers please, I'd try and get
  if/when(?) they appear on tape.

                                          Thanks....

                                             Jim.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: fletch@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Lurie)
Subject: Re: Return of the Transformer Toys
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: na
Date: 12 Dec 92 03:35:01 GMT

In <1992Dec10.004036.1609@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu> ptsyck@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu writes:

>In article <1992Dec6.032821.24755@wam.umd.edu>, vgriscep@wam.umd.edu (VGR (Craig Pell)) writes:
>> In article <1992Dec3.164421.13816@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows) writes:
>>>
>>>I heard that the Transformer toys are back.  Tell me, did they
>>>have Skyfire/Jetfire (I've heard the name both ways), the exact
>>>copy of the Robotech Veritech Fighter?
>> 
>> No.

>YES!~

>The Transformers are going to released sometime in Fedruary `93, might not
>really start see them in the stored till March or April.

	Uh, I hate to tell you this, but they're already out.  I have
Grimlock now.  I'm getting Optimus Prime.

>Four Autobots will be released.
>Jazz and Sidewipe with new spring-loaded missile launchers. Inferno with new 
>firing water cannon. And Optimus Prime with new spring-loaded missile 
>launchers, and a special electronic power pack (with electronic lights and 
>sound/speech effects). 

	Why only four!!?!?!?!?!??

>Three of the Dinobots will be released. 
>Grimlock (Tyrannosaurus), Slag (Triceratops) , and Snarl (Stegosaurus).

	Where's the Pterodactyl?

>Two Decepticons will be released.
>Starscream and Ramjet. Both will have new spring-loaded missile launchers, and
>electronic ligh and sound power packs.

	Only two?!?!?!?!?!?  What about Megatron??????


>The Macross/Robotech Valkryie/Veritech are a different design than Jetfire. For 
>one the nose of the Valkryie/Veritech looks more like a jet fighter, the nose
>on Jetfire was more square. And the peices on the Valkryie/Veritech weren't as
>hard to move around. 
>I have a Valkryie and I use to have Jetfire (I broke Jetfire).

	I heard they weren't going to put out Jetfire for quite some time.
Just to see if sales were worth the effort!  Where did you get this information?

--

______________________________________________________________________________
Alan S. Lurie, Esq., Time Traveller Extrordinaire = fletch@camelot.bradley.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Count de Money: "The people are revolting."
King Louis XVI: "You said it.  They stink on ice."
			-- HISTORY OF THE WORLD, PART I
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: avatar@wings.micro.umn.edu (Timothy Fay)
Subject: Re: Cheap Animation
Organization: University of Minnesota
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 01:12:56 GMT

Robert Cook (rcook@sdcc13.ucsd.edu) wrote:
>
>RDU was severely underrated...  It also failed to
>recoup its cost at the box office (though it made a decent profit on
>home video).

Depends on how you figure these things.  If I recall correctly, RDU
made about $20-$30 million at the box office (which was fairly typical
for a Disney cartoon before the recent "boom" in animation), but cost
only $10-$15 million to make (again, fairly typical for a Disney cartoon).
However, in order to be considered profitible, most films have to gross
about three times their cost.  So now, because RDU didn't make $50+
million, the Disney bigwigs feel that films like RDU (and animated sequels,
in general) "won't sell."

>...His [Don Bluth] next film to be released (if he stays in
>business!) is Thumbelina...

Sullivan-Bluth recently filed for bankruptcy in Ireland, and laid off
their entire staff (including several American animators who are now 
'stranded' on the Emerald Isle).  So it seems unlikely that he will
produce any more animated features, in the near future, at least.

--
		Reply to:  avatar@wings.micro.umn.edu

  "My mental facilities are TWICE what yours are -- you pea brain!"
			-Percival MacLeach

Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (E. Kontei)
Subject: Re: Anime will destroy animation as we know it... NOT!!!
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:06:17 GMT


Oh, and another thing:

In article <n11f9t@ofa123.fidonet.org>, Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:
>  As for Orange Road... Well, put it this way in terms of character designs 2
> for 3 isn't bad, eh?   I personally think Orange Road is what will turn OFF
> people to more "mature" stuff since it contains the typical junk that make
> people hate anime.

I didn't get into ORANGE ROAD for the character designs.  I didn't get
into ORANGE ROAD for the animation.  I got into ORANGE ROAD because it's
witty, funny, and there's some brilliant characterization in there.
Same goes for URUSEI YATSURA.

But of course, given that you lose all sense of rationality whenever
you see an anime-style character design, I'm not surprised you can't
notice.  Michael Denehey(sp?) doesn't like anime for the same reason
(the character designs), but at least he can be rational and sensible
about it.

I've lost my patience.  This will be my last posting in this thread.
-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			The Incredible Man-with-no-Life
			      jester@ihlpm.att.com
		    Disclaimer: You're not dealing with AT&T
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: avatar@wings.micro.umn.edu (Timothy Fay)
Subject: Re: Defending anime (was Re: Cheap animation)
Organization: University of Minnesota
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 11:20:44 GMT

Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org wrote:
> Was the Nippon Sunrise version (AROUND THE WORLD IN 80 DAYS/THE
> ADVENTURES OF WILLY FOGG -Tim) ever shown here on US TV in any way, BTW?

In another post, Ray Rooney mentioned that he had heard that it was
shown, somewhere, but that's news to me.  Eight of the episodes were
released on home video in this country, however.

--
		Reply to:  avatar@wings.micro.umn.edu

  "My mental facilities are TWICE what yours are -- you pea brain!"
			-Percival MacLeach
From: mlj44080@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael Lee Jacobs)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: BTAS episode list, please...
Date: 13 Dec 92 23:42:15 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

hmmmm

we have now seen 45 out of the 65 episodes...that means less than 1/3 more
to go  *sigh*   Most of these will probably be seen on Sunday night after
awhile to enhance prime time ratings....any word on more episodes?
USA Today said they would be probably be making more for new episodes prime
time next season so that might imply another 26.

-- 
"Salam and good evening to you sir.  Welcome to Agribah, land of mystery
of enchantment, and the best deals this side of the river Jordan, come on down"
From: klein@egr.msu.edu (Jeffrey Klein)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: Anime: Pardon me
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:15:14 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University College of Stunt Piloting

In article <1gm1fvINN8le@bigboote.WPI.EDU> megazone@buckaroo.WPI.EDU (MegaZone23) writes:
>In article <rdippold.724468450@cancun> rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
>>What happened with the big push back in news.groups a while back for
>>an anime group?  Did it fail or pass?  Has it died since?
>
>FYI, rec.arts.anime existed long before rec.arts.animation and yes it is still
>around.... rec.arts.animation was created since it was felt non-anime was
>unwelcome on rec.arts.anime... which was untrue, but oh well...

Well, if you wanna get technical, r.a.animation was created for discussion
of -producing- animation, but there wasn't much traffic on the subject and
so the "watching" animation crowd came in.  (You can still talk about 
production if you wanna, encourage encourage) :)

Nowadays r.a.anime seems somewhat set against non-Japanese shows. 
-- 
Jeff Klein             | "Happily, Ral doffs his outer clothing for a
Browsing Boy of the LNH|  refreshing dip in one of the dangerous 
klein@frith.egr.msu.edu|  chemical vats." - Ty Templeton 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: collins_w@cubldr.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: now.. how about the BEST saturday morning 'toon?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 11:29:08 GMT

In article <4_a2-7q@rpi.edu>, riouxp@rs6201.ecs.rpi.edu (Peter Joseph Rioux) writes:
> the besty one has to be the little mermaid.. the series...on abc...well, i
> know everybody won't agree, but what the hell...:)
> 
> SQUID   (having fun under the sae...:)
> riouxp@rpi.edu
   Do you mean Disney's TLM on CBS? If this wasn't limited to Saturday
mornings, I would have to say "Saban's Adventures of The Little Mermaid"
(of course :-) ).


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|				  Neil Collins				      |
| For email responses, please say the mail is "For Neil" on the subject line. |
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