From: DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Programming
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:57:23 GMT
 <mwm.2ndl@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us> <1e5rq2INNa7e@ub.d.umn.edu>
 <mwm.2nir@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us>
Organization: Penn State University

In article <mwm.2nir@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us>, mwm@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us
(Mike Meyer) says:

>In <1e5rq2INNa7e@ub.d.umn.edu>, rfentima@ub.d.umn.edu (Robert Fentiman) wrote:
>> In article <mwm.2ndl@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us> mwm@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us
>(Mike Meyer) writes:
>>

>You're right - it's just a reason for not using it for anything but games.

Do you do any personal programming? Do you include ToolTypes and
clipboard support into every throwaway program you write? Ok, an example.
A short while ago I needed to write a simple program to send some
commands to my modem and retrieve some data. It involved serial I/O and
some simple string functions, HEX/decimal/ASCII conversions, binary file
saving, and the like. In C, you're talking about 300 lines of code and
a major headache just get the serial I/O working. Sure, you could use
someone's PD serial library on a Fish disk, but you'll spend more time
trying to get -that- to work than writing it from scratch. In AMOS,
it's 10 lines of code and no headache. I run the program (no waiting for
it to compile, it runs instantly), save the data. I can't imagine an
easier programming envirnment. Maybe you can, I don't know, but none
exists anyway.

>> And if you check my other posts, you notice I'm saying that it is not a
>> problem, but it allows me to to have, say, more sprites on the screen
>> than you can (and other little tricks).  Anyway, as I keep saying, this
>> is NO reason to discount the language (even if if *may* be true).

>No, it *IS* a problem if you can't turn it off. It's sufficient to
>discount the package.

Only if you're a close-minded moron. Let's switch it around. Suppose
I said "Well, SAS/C doesn't even support fast virtual sprites, custom
copperlists, and smooth scrolling. Sure it's good for apps, but that's
sufficient to discount the package.". First, you'd say, 'But there's more
to life than games!' , and then 'You can write your own libraries for that
stuff'. You'd also think I was pretty stupid. Well, I think you're pretty
stupid for applying the same logic to AMOS.

>Prove that AMOS is not buggy. Write something that is AUISG compliant
>in it.



Definitions:
------------
Bug: Anything that Mike Meyer doesn't like.



>I gave the list already - they kill the input stream, which kills
>commodities, and they take window/screen control from intuition. This
>might be acceptable in a game. It's a bug in anything else.

Anything else? There you go again with your absolute statements of
truth. According to you the Video Toaster is a BUG! Geez I hope they
fix it. Their customers must be really pissed.


>Ah, so you admit that AMOS doesn't produce system compliant programs.
>Which is the point. And *NOBODY* should get into the habit of
>producing things that aren't system compliant if it can be avoided.
>Guess what you avoid in this case.

What do mean by "producing things"? If you mean commercial software,
I don't know of any in AMOS. If you mean PD, it's likely that most
AMOS software wouldn't exist ***IN ANY FORM*** if AMOS did not exist.
And what is it with your habit of making blanket statements. It makes
you seem dogmatic and, well, rather small-minded.