HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cs902060@ariel.yorku.ca (GEOFFREY E DIAS)
Subject: Re: Playoff Tickets
Keywords: $$
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:07:48 GMT

In article <9967@ncrwat.Waterloo.NCR.COM> aclark@53iss5.Waterloo.NCR.COM (Allen Clark) writes:
>Well I received my tickets to game one of the ALCS at Skydome
>yesterday and I have a few comments on the process the Blue Jays used
>to offer them to the public.
>
>1) For the regular season good and bad seats are offered to the
>public, when the playoffs roll around the average guy gets offered the
>crap (believe me in Skydome the crap is CRAP!!).
>

	I got my tickets for game 1 on Tuesday, way up in section 541. It
doesn't surprise me since I somehow get that particular section in all
of the 5 games I've gone to this year!

>2) I shelled out $24.00 (CDN) for a ticket that is $4.00 in the
>regular season. (I know the league sets the prices but WOW, I wonder
>what the $17.50 or $22.00 tix go for?)
>

	There were 2 set prices, I think the other was $36. It covers the
area in the skydeck around the bases. The $24 price covers the outfield skydeck
and the seats just above the wall. I think the lower infield area was for 
season ticket holders.	

>5) Here is the kicker, the one that is unbelievable...I had to include
>a stamped addressed envelope!  They would not even send me the tix
>($0.42 for a stamp).  


	I was told that I didn't have to do this. I just mailed in the form,
and they sent me the tickets, with they supplying postage and envelope.
From: zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Didi Seven Huckabay)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Defensive Positional Value (was AL ROY, long ago)
Date: 1 Oct 92 00:52:31 GMT
Organization: Lance Blankenship Appreciation Society (BB Division)

Dr. Dave writes:
>What is the value, to a major-league roster, of a guy who fields like Ozzie
>Smith in his prime, but bats .000 in 1000 plate appearances, with no walks?
>Zero.  

Sorry, Dr. Dave, I have to disagree with this.  Any player with a
positive THAT notable has value.  You just have to find high-leverage
situations for that player to 'shine' in.  The more valuable the
positive, like "He can post a 1.000 OPS without breaking a sweat", the
easier it is to find that niche.

For the player you mention, I'd love to have him on my roster if I
just took a 1-run lead in the top of the ninth.  Get his butt on the
field.  Or if my regular shortstop is Howard Johnson, and we have a
three-run lead in the Sixth, I might let this player (let's call him
Doug Flynn) play.  It would depend on some other variables, but I
think THIS specific player has some value.  Enough to hold on to a
roster spot?  Perhaps.  Depends on the rest of the club.

>What is the value of a guy who fields like Howard Johnson at short, 
>and bats like Raphael Belliard?  Also zero.  

See also Picciolo, Rob.



-- 
* Gary Huckabay * "We need MORE people in the league.  8 isn't going to *
* "Gurgle. Eep."*  cut it.  It's a blast.  Why would someone NOT want   *
* "Acck.  Unh." *  to play?" "Perhaps because you and Chu always pull   *
* "Jose. Igg."  * rabbits out of your hat at the draft." "Ha.  Fear."   *
From: zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Frog Baseball Huckabay)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: TORONTO BLUE JAYS CLINCHED THE AL EAST!!!!!
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:42:05 GMT
Organization: Beavis & Butthead, Ltd.

Jay "Maalox" Chu writes:

>The best team in the American League finally clinches the title.  Now it's
>time to kill Oakland in 4 games and go on to the World Series.
>
>Because the A's sucks, the Toronto Blue Jays will have little difficulty
>winning the American League title.

Dave Kirsch is LOVING this.  Between this Jays woofing and Cito giving
the ball to Jack Morris for potentially three games, Dave must be just
beside himself with glee.

It's a short series, Jay.  ANYTHING can happen.  I have a friend who
believes that the team that has the most players who have a chance to
completely dominate the game offensively will win.  It's nuts of
course, but it's a fun theory.

If you're a Jays fan, just ask yourself: What if Rickey gets hot?

I don't lose any sleep over Joe Carter or Dave Winfield getting hot.
Jim Rising and Dave Till might well have visions of Rickey's beautiful
swing in their heads.

ANYTHING can happen.  It's a short series.  Don't EVER woof in a short
series.  Billy Bates and Billy Hatcher might jump up and bite you.

>Congratulations to the Jays in winning the AL EAST.

Agreed.  Nice season, guys.

>Great game for Cy Young winner Juan Guzman and MVP Joe Carter!!!

Joe Carter of the same OPS as Jose Canseco?
Puh-leese.  Not even MVP of his own team, for chrissake.



-- 
*  Gary Huckabay  * "Hey Mr. Selig - I'm glad to shake your hand.  It's nice  *
*******************  to see you, too, and yes, I understand that I'm not to   *
* take it personal, although we look like people.  And it could be my game on *
* the chopping block, but I'm sure it'll understand." from _Mr._Reinsdorf_KX. *
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: joeb@cserver.plexus.com (Joe Brotz)
Subject: AL ROY - Cal Eldred?
Organization: Plexus Corp. -- Neenah Wisconsin
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:11:47 GMT

The debate the last few weeks over the AL Rookie of the Year has 
centered on Pat Listach and Kenny Lofton, who are of course deserving
candidates. 

How about Cal Eldred? Currently he's 11-1, ~1.5 ERA, and
has a 10 game winning streak. Without a doubt, the basic argument 
against Eldred is that he's put up his numbers for only half a year
(he was called up right after the All-Star break). I don't think anyone
can argue that, in the time that Eldred has been in Milwaukee, his 
level of play is vastly superior to Listach and Lofton (the 1.5 ERA
is incredible). If you could extrapolate his numbers to an entire year,
he'd have the AL Cy Young Award wrapped up too (I know you can't 
extrpolate those numbers with any certainty, but it's fun!!) . 

So the big question is this, How much time do you have
to put in to be a legitimate contender? I know there's no official 
rules except that you must be considered a rookie. After having watched
Eldred pitch the last few weeks in must win games for the Brewers, I'd
give the nod to him over Listach and Lofton.
--
"Statistics are like a girl       <           Joseph A. Brotz         >
in a bikini. They show a lot,     < INTERNET: joeb@cserver.plexus.com >
but not everything" - Toby Harrah <     UUCP: spool!cserver!joeb      >
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jhg8680@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon  Hamkins)
Subject: Re: Kill the Catcher
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 15:01:35 GMT

lbr@holos0.uucp (Len Reed) writes:
>(Jon  Hamkins) writes:
>>lbr@holos0.uucp (Len Reed) writes:

>>Let's see here.... Block: "Sports. to hinder or bar the actions or
>>movements of an opposing player, esp. legitimately."  Sounds to me that
>>if you're standing there, ball or not, you're BLOCKING the plate.
>>Having the ball is for determining the legitimacy of the block.

>Oh, come on, going to the dictionary to support an argument about
>fine details of baseball terminology?  

Well, I don't see it defined in the the official rules.  You seem to be
talking about obstruction, but you keep referring to it as blocking.  I
don't see how your feeling on the issue is somehow better than a
definition from the dictionary.

In baseball parlance, when someone
>speaks of the catcher blocking the plate, he's probably refering to blocking
>it without the ball.  

You keep saying this, but I don't see why.  That's not what I say, and
that's not what I hear other people say, either.  Blocking the plate is
blocking the plate, ball or not.

If you have the ball, you don't need to block
>the plate, since you can just tag the runner.  

You don't need to block the plate, but you can.  Which is the point.

>>>Wrong.  Lonnie Smith, last year in the World Series, was out by 10 feet.
>>>His only hope was to crash the catcher.  On the close plays the runner
>>>can slide; 
>>
>>Sure, if he never wants to get near the plate.  You don't just slide
>>past a catcher standing five feet up the line and expect to reach the
>>plate.  You have to go around him or through him.  (This is not an
>>endorsement of either strategy, BTW.)

>Pay attention.  I said "On *close* plays the runner can slide."  

Huh?  The position of the catcher up the line is determined by where
the throw is coming in, especially on those *close* plays when he
doesn't have time to reposition himself.  If it's five feet up the
line, that's where the catcher will be.  Are you going to tell me now
that there can't be a close play (just barely making/missing a tag)
with the catcher standing five feet up the line?

     ----Jon Hamkins  (hamkins@uiuc.edu)
         University of Illinios
         Urbana, IL
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: joeb@cserver.plexus.com (Joe Brotz)
Subject: Re: Gary Sheffield
Organization: Plexus Corp. -- Neenah Wisconsin
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 21:08:22 GMT

demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers) writes:

>In article <19t04lINN91d@email.sp.unisys.com> fhs@email.sp.unisys.com (Fred Sobottka) writes:
>>Who did the Brewers get in the Sheffield trade anyway?? 

>Ricky Bones, who is a solid #6 starter :-) (maybe a bit
>better) and two good prospects; Matt Mieske, who was
>MVP of Calif. league last year, I believe, and led all
>minor leaguers in OBP, going .341/.456/.530.  
>He was also MVP of the Northwest league in 1990, I think.
>He's not young, however; 24 this season (AAA?) but
>could have a decent career.  OF, average defensively,
>good speed, some power, great batting eye.  If he can
>play CF he'll be dynamite, but I seem to recall him
>being just adequate in LF, so likely he's going to 
>be merely decent.  High Desert was one of the best
>offensive parks in the Calif. League, which is an
>offensive league, so the MLE is probably lower than
>you might think (I didn't compute it); however, I think
>anybody who can draw 94 BBs while hitting .341 with power
>is a decent prospect...

>The other player was Jose Valentin, the Padres top SS
>prospect, who was .251/.335/.436 at Wichita AA (Texas league)
>(MLE is .208/.260/.333; ugh)
>in 1991.  Slick fielder, this was his first season with
>much of a bat.  He's 23 with 6 pro seasons behind him,
>so he's definitely a good prospect, but there seem to
>be a lot of good fielding SSs with no bat, so I wouldn't
>expect a major league career out of him.

>I was against the trade, because these were two of the best
>prospects in a thin farm system.  But this year it
>seems to have worked out :-)

>I don't have 1992 stats for these guys handy, but I seem to
>recall that Mieske had a good enough year to make the
>top 15 for the expansion draft.

A few notes from a Brewer's fan observer. Jose Valentin is currently
with the Brewers (called up in the Sept. expansion). I don't recall
ever seeing him play yet! I don't have any of his minor league stats
either. Matt Mieske started out this year at AA El Paso and moved up
to AAA Denver where he tied for the team lead in home runs (25??). 
He didn't get the call-up in Sept.

--
"Bob Gibson is the luckiest pitcher I ever    <Joseph A. Brotz         >
saw. Every time he pitches, the other team    <joeb@cserver.plexus.com >
doesn't score any runs." - Tim McCarver       <UUCP: spool!cserver!joeb>
From: traven+@pitt.edu (Neal Traven)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Braves-Pirates Pitching Rotation (Does Anyone Know It?)
Keywords: baseball
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:31:42 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <69711@hydra.gatech.EDU> jg10@prism.gatech.EDU (GILMORE,JOHN F) writes:
>
>     We are running our AI baseball demo again this year to predict series
>winners. Last year we picked the Braves in 7 over the Bucs and The Twins in
>6. Hopefully we do as well this time around. 
>
>Here's what I have so far:
>
>Game 1. Smoltz vs Drabek
>Game 2. Avery vs Wakefield
>Game 3. Glavine vs Tomlin
>Game 4. Smoltz vs ?
>Game 5. Avery vs ?
>Game 6. Glavine vs ?
>Game 7. Smoltz vs ?

How come you know who Leyland's using in game 3?  To my knowledge, he hasn't
announced anything beyond game 2.  I'd be surprised if Jackson didn't start 
somewhere during the series, and Jim's been known to start Bob Walk at odd
times as well.  Zane Smith?  Who can say?  He looked good-as-new during his
three innings the other night, and reported no post-game problems with the
shoulder.  In fact, now that he's back, the report is that he had a cortisone
shot right after going on the DL, which completely ended all the pain and
discomfort -- he felt just fine for about 5.5 of the 6 weeks he was on the DL.

I can report, however, that he will use Drabek in games 1, 4, and 7.  So Mr.
Second Half will face Smoltz each time.


>PS Our simulation predictions were presented at the 92 SABR conference. Drop
>   me a note if you want a copy of the paper.

>
Your paper was interesting, though I can't for the life of me figure out why
you need all that computing power to do it.  APBA and PTP can run those 
simulations on a 640K 8088 PC.  I don't recall whether I picked up a copy of
the paper, so I'd be delighted if you'd pass one along to me.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
neal	traven+@pitt.edu	      You're only young once, but you can be
	traven@vms.cis.pitt.edu	       immature forever.   -- Larry Andersen
From: sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: White-Sox Knocking at second place.
Date: 1 Oct 92 03:25:06 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


         White-Sox .......... 4 ;  Twins .......... 3

With a win today, the Sox have again pulled to within 1
game of the Twins in the fight for the second place in
the west. The Sox have dominated the Twins this season
and have taken 8 of the 12 games played so far between them.

Robin Ventura broke a 3-3 tie in the top of the 8th with a 
lead-off homer.  The Twins had a last shot with Harper
in the bottom of the 9th saw his homer die off in the park.

Meanwhile, George Brett got his 2997th hit(3 short of 3000)
against the Angels. Looks like he is on target.

S.H
Forever Twins

The  Bucs and the Braves repeated and also the jays look like
to follow suit. Why did not the Twins.......(thats' life eh!!!)

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Elias/STATS projections
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 21:56:47 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.213728.25271@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> g_waugaman@nac.enet.dec.com (Glenn R. Waugaman) writes:
>Did Elias say if they even looked at minor league stats?  The impression I 
>got from the "similar players" listings was that they didn't. 

I don't believe that Elias gave any details about their system, but I
definitely got the same impression you did: that they ignored minor league
numbers.  

> If they 
>really did just compare the first partial season with those of players of 
>the past, common sense would tell you that that is a terrible system...

Well, Elias had never demonstrated overwhelming quantities of common
sense...

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Bonds "choke"?
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 21:35:42 GMT

In article <GRABINER.92Oct5144048@birkhoff.harvard.edu> grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner) writes:
>
>Tenace was never a .300 hitter; he was a good offensive player because
>he walked and hit for power.  In the five years that the A's won the
>division, he hit .274, .225, .259, .211, .255.  That's a .245 average,
>which would probably go down to .222 facing only the better starters on
>a good team.  The chance that Tenace would go 0 for 20 in a specific
>series of LCS at-bats is .00656.

You are probably still overestimating it.  I'd bet on it dropping to a
.200 BA or lower.  The chance of an 0-20 is then over 1%.  With a .180
BA (quite possibly his true level facing well-rested top pitchers) it
would be almost 2%.  Hardly unlikely when you consider that there are
~40 different hitters *every* *year* in the ALCS and NLCS, and ~20 of
them also get WS at bats.  And that this is the probability for a
*specific* 0-20 streak, not an isolated 0-20 in the middle of 40 AB.

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
From: mm42@prism.gatech.EDU (Mark Mitchell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Sheffield is NL MVP
Date: 30 Sep 92 21:03:05 GMT
Organization: Ramblin' Wrecks from Georgia Tech

genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) wrote:
}
}Not to mention, of course, that Raphael Belliard has successfully squelched
}the notion that how good a hitter you are has something to do with how likely
}you are to get a hit, simply by getting a hit ...

What?  Belliard got a hit?

Does anyone have it on videotape?  I'd really like to see that!

;-)

-- 
Mark Mitchell           Georgia Tech            mm42@prism.gatech.edu

    "I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!"       
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Bonds "choke"?
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:00:44 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.200436.5092@odin.corp.sgi.com> kubey@sgi.com (Ken Kubey) writes:
>>Come back when you can *define* choke.
>
>I don't think it's easy to put into numbers and statistics.
>If you really want me to, I'll make and attempt to put it into that form
>and will post it.  

Please do.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: running <-> errors?
Date: 30 Sep 1992 15:40:42 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <1992Sep29.202136.2138@cs.rose-hulman.edu> rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert) writes:
>
>	In a recent post someone (Paul R. Krueger?) claimed 
>that the Brewers running game was causing their opponents to 
>make lots of throwing errors.
I looked this up in TSN and found that the Brewers 
>had committed the 2nd fewest errors (82), but their opponents
>had committed the second most errors (131).
>
>I still don't think it translates into 20 wins.
   
   Maybe, maybe not. This doesn't include mental errors (like Kelly Downs
   throwing to 3B on a bunt by Listach instead of making the obvious play
   at first) and the numerous times that Milwaukee has gambled on its
   opponent not making a play. For instance, sending non-fleet-afoot Franklin
   Stubbs home from second on a single to left. All it might take is a good
   throw to get him, but more often than not the throw is in the dirt, or up
   the line, or whatever allowing a Brewer baserunner to score or take an
   extra base. Milwaukee takes these chances and because of its reputation,
   usually wins on these gambles. 

   Garner has said that Milwaukee isn't the fastest team around, that Toronto
   may even have more speed (also that if Devon White was on Milwaukee, he'd
   have about 80 stolen bases). But Milwaukee puts the pressure on other teams
   and often the other team doesn't respond well. And when you don't have any
   RBI men on the team (with the possible exception of Molitor and Vaughn,
   when he's on a hot streak), you have to take these chances. 

   --salty

>john rickert
>rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
>Go Brewers!


From: boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:53:09 GMT
Subject: Re: All-Time SF Giant Team
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

What about the Alou boys?
What about Davenport?
What about Butler (or doesn't he qualify based on years of service)?


************************************************
* Donald Boell - Hewlett Packard               *
*                                              *
* When you're chewing on life's gristle        *
* Don't grumble, give a whistle - Monty Python *
*                                 Life of Brian*
************************************************


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rdunkle@engin.umich.edu (R. M. Dunkle)
Subject: Re: Question about AL position pitchers in batting lineup
Organization: Campus Computing Sites, University of Michigan
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 08:25:35 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.030042.10608@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs902060@ariel.yorku.ca (GEOFFREY E DIAS) writes:
>
>
>	I was looking at the boxscore of the Orioles-Indians game. There
>were three Baltimore pitchers in the batting lineup (although they all had
>pinch hitters batting for them).
>
>	What quirk in the rule book brought about this condition? And when
>was the last time this happenned? I noticed that the DH had moved to right
>field. Did this mean that the DH position had to be forfeited and substituted
>with the pitcher's in the lineup?


	This is exactly what happened. When the DH goes in to play a  
position, the pitcher must bat in the spot of the position player that 
was replaced. Or must be pinch-hit for there. :)
	So, if the right fielder was batting sixth, and the DH second, and
the DH went in to play right field, he would still bat second, and the pitcher
would bat sixth. 
	It actually happens pretty often, maybe a few times a year, per team.
Usually it's a case of the only guy left who can play a position being the 
DH. Say the second baseman gets injured, and the only other 2b was DHing. Or
maybe it's a blowout, and the manager wants to rest everyone.
	This late in the season, with a million guys riding the bench, I'd
guess blowout, but I didn't notice the box score, so...
-- 
	Brian A. Dunkle               |          "Dig Zebrox!"
	rdunkle@aal.itd.umich.edu <---|--->    bad@emunix.emich.edu
	[Now residing in fiery Tucson, Arizona...Life is strange..]
	[Lizards are our friends. If only they could talk to us...]
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: the mother of all statistical analyses.
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:01:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: adobe.1992Oct2.160125.19192
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <92275.003858RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu> <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu> writes:
>in my free time next season, i would like to create the mother of all
>statistical analyses.  to do this, i need play-by-plays of each game;
>box scores just won't do.  does anyone know how i would go about getting
>play-by-plays of each game?

You could try contacting Stats, Inc, though to the best of my knowledge,
they've never sold the raw play-by-play data to anyone.  David asked John
Dewan (president of Stats) about the possibility of obtaining raw
play-by-play data, and Dewan didn't discount the possibility, but didn't
have a policy on it.  Your mileage may vary; we know John personally, and
that may have some effect on what he was willing to do.  You also might be
more likely to get data if you ask for older data, rather than the most
recent year.  I should point out that in trying to do a study, it's much
better to have more than one year's worth of data.

The other possibility is to contact Gary Gillette.  I know he collected
play-by-play data last year, and I believe he's collecting it this year,
but I haven't kept up with how it was going.  He's also the person to
contact about purchasing old Project Scoresheet data.  The telephone number
I have for Gillette is 215-248-9899.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com