From: carroll@ori.cis.udel.edu (Mark C. Carroll)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 22:00:45 GMT

In article <memo.731281@cix.compulink.co.uk> stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
]In-Reply-To: <1992Nov4.162107.16259@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
]
]] +From         : ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
]] +Subject      : Re: Conversion Question
]] 
]] In article <memo.729068@cix.compulink.co.uk> stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
]] ]You say that the person is NO LONGER keeping MANY of the mitzvot,
]] ]from which one might infer that he or she at one time kept all the
]] ]mitzvot and still keeps some of them. If that is the case, then in
]] ]all probability the conversion would remain valid. The only way it
]] ]could be found to be invalid is if one of the conditions for
]] ]conversion was lacking at the time of the conversion, viz. the Beis
]] ]Din was not Kosher (eg. Conservative), ...
]] 
]] I try hard not to let my anger get the best of me,  but why does the
]] author have to go out of his was to provoke so many people?
]] 
]] Wasn't it sufficient to say "the Beis Din was not kosher" without
]] being insulting and political and wrong?
]
]I'm not trying to insult anybody, merely stating a fact.
]

Nonsense. 

You _deliberately_ went out of your way to add something to your post
in order to make it pointedly insulting to a large number of your
fellow Jews on the net. There was _no_ reason to go out of your way
and point out your (unjustified) belief that Conservative conversion
are invalid _unless_ you wanted to make an effort to insult and/or
denigrate the Conservative readers on the net.

]] To state that a conservative Bet Din is not kosher is inflammatory,
]] insulting and wrong.  True, there are significant political issues
]] at stake, but they do not per se make a conservative Bet Din not
]] kosher.  What they do is, in practice, make a conservative
]] conversion much more difficult or near impossible to be accepted in
]] certain circles.  And many people will defend the politics as being
]] religious in nature.   I don't.
]
]Politics has nothing to do with it. My concern is strictly halachik
]and I claim for support the Teshuvos (Responsa) of Reb Moshe
]Feinstein z'tzl who in many of them stated that a conversion through
]a Conservative Beis Din was not a valid conversion. And anyone who
]thinks that Reb Moshe had any considerations other than halachik ones
]is completely misguided.
]

Pointing a finger at someone else and saying "He said it first, and
you know that he didn't mean it as an insult" is hardly an excuse.
Rabbi Feinstein was an excellent Rabbi. But I don't think that he
would have defended your insulting post. Whether you believe that
Conservative conversions are valid or not, to go out of your way to
point out your belief *for no good reason* is deliberately insulting
your fellow Jews. And that, my friend, is something which is *not*
defensible halachically.

	<MC>
-- 
|| Mark Craig Carroll: <MC>     || "There is no such thing as a problem 
|| Univ of Delaware, Dept of CIS||  without a gift for you in its hands. You
|| Grad Student/Labstaff Hacker ||  seek problems because you need their 
|| carroll@udel.edu             ||  gifts" - _Illusions_, by Richard Bach
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