From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: O-C-R debate
Date: 26 Jul 92 20:38:18 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <1992Jul25.205235.6218@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1992Jul24.192801.29415@umbc3.umbc.edu> shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul24.170856.17664@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

>>>but my tools for interpreting Torah are Aristotelian syllogism
>>>and Occam's Razor, and halacha uses neither.

Modern logic started with finding flaws in the works of Aristotle.
I mean flaws, not just inadequacies and extensions.

>>Remember, in any event, that Occam's razor whould be used to sharpen
>>the wit, not whittle away at the imagination.

Even Occam's razor has problems with interpretation.  One of my papers,
and this is a statistics paper, is entitled, "Occam's razor needs new 
blades."  

			................

>>Judaism is, however, important to me.  And, I assume, it is important
>>to you.  Do you reject _all_ expertise (Reform and Conservative as
>>well as Orthodox)?  I assume that you do not necessarily reject expertise
>>in other areas of endeavor (e.g., medicine, math); how (and where) do you
>>draw the distinction?   Doesn't it take a great deal of knowledge
>>(and hubris) to go off on one's own like that?   (I'm asking, not
>>attacking.  Honest.  I'd attack you on the Orthodoxy - Christianity
>>parallel, but not on the rest.)

What is expertise?  Within the past century, the "foundations" of statistics
have been blasted several times.  Finally, we seem to have a reasonable set,
based on minimal assumptions.  But to arrive at this point, it was not
the work of previous statistical specialists which was used; on the 
contrary, their work was replaced by that of people using ideas from
mathematics and economics.  I happened to be at the right place at the
right time and with the right background, so I had a part in this.

>As I said, the only basis for the Orthodoxy-Christianity parallel is that
>I think both of them are wrong; sorry for overstating my case on that one.
>As for the rest, I take logic as paramount on all subjects, and no, I don't
>accept authority in areas like medicine and math. I accept advice, and
>ask that it come with explanations, which I then weigh and make my own
>decision -- this is where the custom of getting a second opinion on a
>medical question comes in. I value the interpretations of my Rabbi and
>of the sages very highly; but in the end, it's my decision, and their
>interpretations are tools I use in making that decision, not authority
>to which I am bound.

As it should be.  If you want to see discussions on the reliance on
medical authorities, sci.med has them all over.  Those authorities
have been shown wrong many times; I can give several clear cases of
it.  In mathematics, you will find little of this, because even 
someone of low ability can verify a proof if all steps are given;
they usually are not, but in principle, it can be done.

-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish