From: stecz@pencom.com (John Steczkowski)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Anti-Lock Brakes makes stopping SAFER?
Date: 29 Dec 92 21:28:50 GMT
Reply-To: stecz@pencom.com
Distribution: austin
Organization: Pencom Software

In article <16105@auspex-gw.auspex.com> tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)  
writes:
> In article <236@io.trident.datasys.swri.edu>, johns@trident.datasys.swri.edu 
> (Stephen Johns) writes:
> > I've driven cars with and without ABS, and I will NEVER own a car
> > without ABS again.  Traffic and drivers in San Antonio are pretty bad
> > and love to pull out in front of you.  Numerous times on wet roads, driving
> > cars with no ABS, I've had people pull out in front of me REALLY close,
> > many times when I hit the brakes, I went into quick, small skids, and I  
hate
> > that feeling of not having control of the car.  (I normally keep a very  
good
> > following distance which many jerks consider large enough to squeeze into.)
> > Same situation with ABS is trivial, hit the brakes and you come to a quick,
> > controlled stop, steering isn't even affected that much.  But don't stop  
and
> > gloat, as the person behind you without ABS may be closing in fast!
> 
> 
> I have ABS and I think I want to buy other cars with ABS.  Is that 
> non-comittal enough?
> 
> So far ABS has helped in wet conditions, and my car monitors all four
> wheels.  I had an experieince that disturbs me, however.
> 
> I was going downhill, around 35 - 40 mPH in the hills above Redwood City.
> As I approached an intersection on a curve and on a steep hill, a person
> decided to run the red light and made a left in front of me.  It was 
> raining at the time.  I did what comes naturally to me -- I expected a
> collision, and decided to put the car sideways into the other car.  To
> do this, I applied heavy brakes and steered hard left.
> 
> Normally this would put the car into a skid sideways and would result in
> lessened impact with the other car (spreads the impact over a larger 
> area).  The ABS kicked in and I simply came to a stop in a half-completed
> left turn.  No collision.  Seems like a good idea, but what if the car
> could not have stopped in time using the ABS?

Actually hitting the object with the front of the car is better than the side.  
Try this...sit in your car, measure the distance from your nose to the drivers  
side window.  Now measure the distance from your nose to the windshield.   
Notice how there is a lot more car to smush in front than the side.  This is a  
good thing.  Actually, one of the advantages to ABS is that it prevents you  
from sliding sideways in a wreck.  

Remember, your tires have more traction not sliding, than sliding.  In your  
scenario, without ABS, you would have slid sideways, and since your tires are  
now sliding, you would have taken longer to stop, probably hitting the other  
car with the passenger side door (at least that is how it sounds from the  
description).  What if you would have had  a passenger?  Their head would have  
hurt awfully bad after getting smashed into the window. (remember seatbelts and  
airbags aren't as effective in a side collision as in a front collision).  
> 
> If the ABS had not been sufficient to stop me, I would have certainly
> been prevented b\from using the skid to lessen the impact.  The skid
> would have:
> 
> 	1. scrubbed speed off from the drag produced thereby reducing
> 		impact.

Not as much as stopping straight without the tires sliding.

> 	2. Spread the impact over a wider surface area, causing the car to
> 		take the impact instead of the human body.

yes, but with a lot shorter crumple zone (inches instead of feet), probably  
injuring the people inside more.

> 	3. Might have allowed me to steer around the other car had they come
> 		to a stop, by converting the skid into forward motion allowing
> 		me to "drift" around the other car.

Not likely, once you are skidding, it is fairly difficult to recover.  Have you  
ever autocrossed?  It's a lot tougher to do than you think.  I know, I know  
you're a great driver, and you've done it before. But the question is, can you  
do it again?

> 
> I don't know if ABS is always a good thing or not.
> 
> 
> 
> Tom Pickett 
> tpickett@auspex.com or 74616.2237@compuserve.com
> SHO  GOZE

--
--
  John Steczkowski                        stecz@pencom.com
  "Achilles raised his spear, took careful aim, and hurled."
  					    from the Iliad
From: genet@hplsla.hp.com (Gene Taylor)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:01:30 GMT
Subject: Re: 110v Electric Auto
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA