From: terry@eece.ksu.edu (Terry Hull)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Another breeding question
Date: 19 Aug 1992 17:21:55 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: ralph.eece.ksu.edu

mooring@ (Linda Mooring) writes:

No flames here, but being one of the net.Rottweiler folks, I feel compelled
to respond.  

[Description of Phobee deleted]


>I don't know much about Rottie breed conformation specifics, but
>I've noticed that her snout is a little longer than the dogs at
>shows, and her body and legs seem a little longer.  She looks skinny
>compared to some of the corpulent Rotts I've seen at shows.

That may be good.  Many show Rotts are fat.  

>I know my chances of getting a dog like Phoebe from the pound
>is slim.  I love my stray, but he has few of Phoebe's superb
>pet qualities.

It may be tough to get one from the pound, but there are lots of
breeders out there with outstanding dogs who will sell you a puppy.
There really are many many Rottweilers out there with Phoebe's qualities.  
She is not unique.  

>So, with such a wonderful dog, and prospective buyers (which seem to
>offer good, solid homes), should my brother avoid breeding her just
>because of her dubious lineage and *possible* conformation flaws?

Well, her dubious lineage may be a problem.  When I picked out my
puppy, it was from a litter that was so much alike you could not
really tell them apart.  They were all *very* similar in size,
temperament and conformation.  That shows depth of pedigree.  These
bloodlines have been bred for generations for proper type and
temperament.  It shows up in puppies that are correct and uniform.  
Breeding dogs with dubious lineage is really a shot in the dark.  
It is entirely possible that breeding this dog would result in 
very few puppies or even none with her good characteristics.  

The second issue is the responsibility of breeding.  It takes quite
a lot of time to learn what dog makes a good match for which bitch.  
Two dogs that are both outstanding individuals may not produce any
outstanding puppies.  The individual dogs and their pedigrees need
to be carefully studied to verify that weaknesses on one side will
be complemented by strengths on the other side in the same area.  

I would also like to point out that we registered over 120,000
Rottweilers last year.  We do not need yet another litter of
run-of-the-mill Rottweilers.  We already have plenty of those.  In
this country, we have lots of truly outstanding dogs.  Breeding only
those dogs would produce more Rottweiler puppies than we could
possibly find good homes for.  Many of these dogs are owned by people
who spend their time learning about Rottweilers and working with
Rottweilers.  They are truly experts in the breed.  They usually breed
for a specific purpose, with each litter they are looking for a puppy
with a particular set of characteristics.  As a result, they end up
with quite a number of puppies that need to be placed in "pet" homes,
and generally their prices are reasonable.

My current puppy was purchased as a show/breeding prospect.  He will
be shown in conformation, worked in AKC obedience and we are working
on tracking as a foundation for Schutzhund work.  If my puppy ends up
being sound, conformationally correct and has good working character
will he be bred.  He is not of questionable lineage.  He has
conformation and working titles on both sides of his pedigree, but even
at this, I will not breed the dog without the advice of his breeder.
If she were to have a problem with me breeding the pup, he will not be
bred.  I do not feel qualified at this point to make that final
decision, so I have left it up to someone I trust, At the same time, I
have the the desire to learn from her so that in a few years I will be
able to make those decisions for myself.  Too many people have gotten
into this breed with no idea of what makes a good Rottweiler, and the
impressive bite statistics that Rotts have accumulated over the years
validate the fact that this has been very bad for the breed.

You can call me an elitist if you wish, but I would not consider
anyone who does not work or show their Rottweilers competent breeders.
If the dogs are never tested, how can they possibly know what kind of
dogs they are breeding?  I personally do not believe it is possible.
If all they are breeding is companion dogs, I think they either do not
understand the breed, or they do not care much about the breed.  Sure,
they make good companions, but they do so because of the years of
breeding for working character and sound structure.  Keep in mind
these characteristics can be greatly diminished in just a few
generations, so *each* generation needs to be evaluated to make sure
that those qualities that come together to produce a good Rottweiler
are still present.  I really do not believe that breeding of
Rottweilers is something that must be left forever to an elite few, as
I believe it is quite possible to join the ranks of good Rott breeders
by finding a mentor and spending a few years learning about the breed.

The flip side of picture is that breeders are always looking for
outstanding bitches.  Get in touch with some Rott people in your area
that REALLY know their dogs and ask if she is suitable for breeding.  
They may tell you that she is indeed worthy of breeding and may be
able to help select a male for you, help you care for the puppies and
even help evaluate puppy buyers.  Since this bitch's strengths seem to
be in the areas of temperament and willingness to work, I would try to
find someone besides a strictly conformation breeder to evaluate the
dog.  They would be far more likely to recognize the value of the
bitch than someone who was only after good looks.  

>Does absolute perfection really matter for a wonderful pet?

Absolutely not.  A Rottweiler with a white spot on his chest or who is
too tall, too short or has ears too low on his head may make a great
pet.  The dog who is not a working prospect may also make a great pet.
Sound structure and good temperament *are* required for good pets
though.  

--
Terry Hull  -  terry@eece.ksu.edu
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Kansas State University
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs