HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: munnari.oz.au!metro!maths.su.oz.au!szabo_p@uunet.uu.net  (Paul Szabo)
Subject: Disk quotas at 10.4: problems
Organization: Mathematics, University of Sydney
Distribution: fj
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 00:43:28 GMT
Return-Path: <apollo-list-errors@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>


I now have a few nodes at SR10.4, so I wanted to try out the fancy new disk
quota system. I found the following problems with it. In my opinion these
problems (by themselves or in combination) make the quota system unuseable.

1) There is a limit of 1024 users in the disk quota table. (This limitation
   is shown by INVOL.) We have well over that many users: some would have to
   miss out. (It seems that a user without a disk quota entry is equivalent
   to having a limit of zero.)

2) There is no tool to re-build the 'currently-used' table. It seems to me
   that the currently-used values only change when files are created/changed
   (only for users with disk quota entries, and only while quotaon is in
   effect). Creating a quota entry for a user will always see his
   currently-used value start at zero.

3) There is no command to view one's own disk quota limit and usage. The
   command 'edquota -l' displays the full table; this has implications about
   the privacy of other users, besides the inconvenience of having to use
   'grep' on the output.

4) There may be no error messages when exceeding quota. In particular, the
   command 'echo abc > file' would return no error message even though I was
   over my quota (it created an empty file instead: this does not need any
   quota). Similarly the command 'echo abc >> file' would silently fail to
   extend the file. (The commands were run in the /bsd4.3/bin/csh, on a node
   running 10.4; the file was on another node running 10.4 and disk quotas.)

5) Files can be 'given away', after which they are counted against the new
   owner's quota. This defeats the purpose of the system and allows
   denial-of-service attacks.

Does anyone know a way around these problems? (Would HP fix them if I
submitted an APR?) I hope they can be fixed, I was really looking forward to
using disk quotas.

Paul Szabo - System Manager   //        School of Mathematics and Statistics
szabo_p@maths.su.oz.au        //   University of Sydney, NSW 2006, Australia
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.apollo
From: psinntp!polari!lampi%polari.online.com@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Re: SCSI on 5500
Organization: R Squared, Redmond, WA (206) 883-3116
Distribution: fj
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:43:01 GMT
Return-Path: <apollo-list-errors@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>

In article <9209031417.AA02114@cel.cummins.com> philip@cel.cummins.com (Philip D. Pokorny) writes:
>David Krowitz says:
>> The WD7000 controller supports two ESDI disks, a floppy, and SCSI tape
>> drives ... no SCSI disks. This is entirely a software limitation.
>> HP decided not to supply the SCSI disk driver for the DN3500/4500/5500
>> series.
>Perhaps those new SWT guys taking over development of
>Domain/OS will look into making the drivers available.  They
>really want to prove they are going to do good things for the
>Domain/OS customers and SCSI support on DN machines is certainly
>high on the list of Frequently Asked Questions... 
>Unfortunately, I don't think it was raised at the Engineering
>directions at InterWORKS...
>
Yes, the question was raised (by me at the HW & Peripherals SIG table)
at InterWorks, and some other people there even voted for it. I think
it even beat out several other issues :-)

One problem that I see with SWT is that they are absolutely, 100% green to
Domain OS. Also, the main direction they are taking (and I don't blame
them) is to make only those changes that won't break any application.

However, the SWT people I spoke with also indicated that this means they
will be very reluctant to add significant functionality (such as SCSI disks
on WD controllers, >4GB physical disk volumes/RAID, etc.), because this
might break something somewhere. Also, the frequency of system releases is
going to decrease from the torrid pace we've seen recently :-)


-- 
-----
+-+  Michael Lampi       lampi@polari.online.com
|R|  R Squared           16398 NE 85th St., Suite 101, Redmond, WA 98052
+-+                      (206) 883-3116       fax (206) 883-2676
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.apollo
From: agate!bionet!raven.alaska.edu!news.u.washington.edu!milton.u.washington.edu!seymour@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (Richard Seymour)
Subject: Re: Strange packaging technique
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: fj
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:44:05 GMT
Return-Path: <apollo-list-errors@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>

In article <1992Sep5.210747.22758@88opensi.88open.ORG> sartin@88opensi.UUCP (Rob Sartin) writes:
>In article <0ylnpl#.snow@netcom.com> snow@netcom.com (Tim Szeliga) writes:
>>"HP P/N 19511-80014".  
>Ahh, yes, the Eagle shipping braces.  I got one that had a defect (knot hole)
> and we called up to see if there was a repair/replace kit or service manual.
> We were aghast to discover that there was NO SUPPORT for this HP product!

i'm used to DEC's part numbering scheme... where the last few digits reflect
modification status... and we'd receive space-fillers (empty boxes, blocks of
wood, etc.) with -03 or -04 revision levels (i wonder if any were Field
Change Order qualified?)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.apollo
From: paul@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu  (Paul Pomes - UofIllinois CSO)
Subject: Re: CFV: comp.graphics.gnuplot
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: fj
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 15:07:17 GMT
Return-Path: <apollo-list-errors@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>

rees@dabo.citi.umich.edu (Jim Rees) writes:

>According to the smtp daemon handling mail for uiuc.edu, both the sender and
>the vote collector addresses are no good:
>
>> set q=mx
>> uiuc.edu
>Server:  citi.umich.edu
>Address:  141.211.128.16
>
>uiuc.edu	preference = 10, mail exchanger = ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
>uiuc.edu	preference = 10, mail exchanger = uxc.cso.uiuc.edu
>uiuc.edu	preference = 10, mail exchanger = garcon.cso.uiuc.edu
>ux1.cso.uiuc.edu	internet address = 128.174.5.59
>uxc.cso.uiuc.edu	internet address = 128.174.5.50
>garcon.cso.uiuc.edu	internet address = 128.174.5.58
>> *** EOF *** 
>% telnet ux1.cso.uiuc.edu smtp
>Trying 128.174.5.59...
>Connected to ux1.cso.uiuc.edu.
>Escape character is '^]'.
>220 ux1.cso.uiuc.edu 5.67a8/IDA-1.5 Sendmail is ready at Mon, 7 Sep 1992 16:36:27 -0500
>vrfy gnuplot-vote
>550 gnuplot-vote... User unknown
>vrfy d-lewart
>550 d-lewart... User unknown
>quit
>221 ux1.cso.uiuc.edu closing connection

You're making the invalid assumption that all addresses to a MX destination
are to local users via selection of the local mailer.  All three hosts above
(ux1,uxc,garcon) treat d-lewart and d-lewart@uiuc.edu quite differently.
The former selects the local mailer (/bin/mail) while the latter selects
a mailer that performs (people not dns) nameserver lookups.  The nameserver
lookup program (phquery, now shipped with gopher), resolves the d-lewart
name to the address lewart@rsm1.physics.uiuc.edu .  gnuplot-vote@uiuc.edu
resolves to the same userid.

/pbp
-- 
"A well-schooled electorate, being necessary to the security of a free State,
the right of the People to keep and read Books shall not be infringed."
	-- J. Neil Schulman
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.apollo
From: cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!sample.eng.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.uiowa.edu!iworks.ecn.uiowa.edu!librarian@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU  (InterWorks librarian)
Subject: The InterWorks library after the New Orleans conference
Organization: International HP Workstation users' group (InterWorks)
Distribution: fj
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 21:55:42 GMT
Return-Path: <apollo-list-errors@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>

The InterWorks library on iworks.ecn.uiowa.edu has now had all the remaining
problems associated with our recent disk failure corrected. Any recent
attempts to locate things which failed should be ok now. As a followup to
some recent traffic here, an executable "traceroute" for DOMAIN systems
has been in the library for about a year (courtesy of Chelmsford).


As part of my conference-related work, and in conjunction with some very
helpful HP people, InterWorks has produced a CD containing all the software
currently maintained on the iworks node-- both the DOMAIN and HP-UX sides of
the library. Although the CD was a popular item at the conference, there are
still some left. Information on ordering this CD may be obtained by contacting 
Carol Relph at
  relph_c@apollo.hp.com   -or-
  (508) 436-5046
InterWorks expects to periodically generate updated CDs in the future.

Dave Shaw
InterWorks librarian
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.apollo
From: psinntp!polari!lampi%polari.online.com@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Re: NeXT on HP700
Organization: R Squared, Redmond, WA (206) 883-3116
Distribution: fj
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:29:59 GMT
Return-Path: <apollo-list-errors@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>

In article <9209031414.AA02108@cel.cummins.com> philip@cel.cummins.com (Philip D. Pokorny) writes:
>In the August 31, 1992 issue of Open Systems Today there is an
>interview with Lew Platt, HP's president-elect.  Quoting from the
>article:
>
>     Platt said HP, under certain circumstances, would
>     willingly incorporate industry-standard software from
>     Microsoft and even IBM into its products.  Regarding
>     NT, Platt said HP would wait to see how the product is
>     received in the market before deciding whether it would
>     be beneficial to have NT running on PA-RISC.  If NT
>     gains market share, "there is nothing whatsoever that
>     would prevent us from porting that OS to our platform
>     and we've already had discussions with Microsoft about
>     this," said Platt.
>
But not an operating system HP already knows about and "supports".

>     Platt also said that HP would consider incorporating
>     into its own products, technologies that emanate from
>     Taligent, the joint IBM-Apple object-oriented
>     programming project.

But not technology that is already present in its own non-HPUX products.
>
>     HP, for its part, is trying to make its PA-RISC
>     architecture more prevalent in the industry by
>     licensing it to vendors HP does not view as
>     competitors.  One such company, Platt said, is Next,
>     which is currently looking for a RISC technology on
>     which to base its computers.  But Platt declined to say
>     whether there had been any direct negotiations with
>     Next.  Next also declined comment.
>
I find it interesting that HP would partner with a company that has yet to
sell as many workstations as Apollo, port their code to PA-RISC, and ignore
their own DomainOS customer base.

(gripe, grumble, moan die-hard Domainiac :-)

-- 
-----
+-+  Michael Lampi       lampi@polari.online.com
|R|  R Squared           16398 NE 85th St., Suite 101, Redmond, WA 98052
+-+                      (206) 883-3116       fax (206) 883-2676
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.apollo
From: philip@cel.cummins.com (Philip D. Pokorny)
Subject: Strange program behavior
Organization: Electrotechnical Laboratory, Tsukuba Science City
Distribution: fj
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 15:19:33 GMT
Return-Path: <apollo-list-errors@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>

I just ported a new application to the Apollo and it's showing some odd behavior
interacting with the VT100 emulator.  If I don't start the vt100 emulator first,
then the program starts, the screen clears and is replaced with the 'vt100' window
However, no output appears in the vt100 screen.  If I 'cc' the pad, then I can
see that all the output is still being sent to the pad!  However, if I start
vt100 first, and then the program, the output all appears in the vt100 window
correctly.  What would cause this behavior?  I suspect that they aren't using
curses to output the text and thus the output is going to the original output
stream.  Since I know little or nothing about curses on the Apollo or otherwise
I am looking for a quick confirmation of my hypothisis so I can go back to the
vendor with some suggestions on how to fix the problem.

Thanks,

Sincerely,
Philip D. Pokorny
philip@cel.cummins.com
:)

Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.apollo
From: munnari.oz.au!metro!steam.chem.su.oz.au!wonga@uunet.uu.net  (Adrian Wong)
Subject: Strange login behaviour
Organization: Dept. of Theoretical Chemistry, University of Sydney
Distribution: fj
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 06:05:21 GMT
Return-Path: <apollo-list-errors@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>

We have recently upgraded to 10.4 and OCCASIONALLY when we login
the shell is not able to exec anything (except built-in shell commands).
Thus 'cd' works but 'ls' fails with the error message 

'ls : Command not found.'

Even '/bin/ls' fails.
However subshells do work, e.g.
'(cd /bin ; ./ls )'
works fine.

What's happened? I suspect it's specifically a C-shell problem, because
when I use Korn shell it's never occurred.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adrian Wong, Dept.of Theoretical Chemistry     wong_a@summer.chem.su.oz.au
University of Sydney NSW 2006 Australia        061-2-692 4137
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.apollo
From: sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!texsun!digi!kgallagh@ames.arc.nasa.gov  (Kevin Gallagher)
Subject: Re: rz/sz doesn't work on our machines
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX
Distribution: fj
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:12:02 GMT
Return-Path: <apollo-list-errors@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>

In article <1992Sep04.184127.17533@edsi.plexus.COM> chuck@edsi.plexus.COM (Chuck Tomasi) writes:
>We're running mostly DN3550/DN4500/DN5500 machines on our site (with a
>few 425Ts) under Domain/OS 10.3.5.  We compiled the rz/sz sources with
>SYSTYPE=sys5.3 and everything appeared to go alright.  The problem is
>that they don't work.  The same sources work fine from an HP-UX v8.0
>machine however it seems that something is being blocked or trapped when
>we invoke them from the Domain machines.

I compiled the rz/sz sources under Domain/OS 10.3.0.8 on a DN3550 in SYSTYPE
bsd4.3.  I connect from my PC at home to my Apollo through a DECserver to a
VAX (running VMS) and from the VAX to the Apollo via telnet.  The connection
turns out to be very robust.  The modem runs at 2400 baud.  On the PC, I use
Crosstalk Mk.4, the latest version,  using the build-in implementation of
ZMODEM. 

I can upload files from my Apollo node to my PC by invoking the sz command at
the Unix shell prompt.  The transfer rate is outstanding at around 232
characters per second.  However, I can't get the rz command to download files
from my PC to my Apollo.  I do suspect the ZMODEM implementation in Crosstalk
is, at least, partially at fault, but I can't be sure.  The version of Kermit
we have installed doesn't handle downloads to the Apollo as well as it handles
uploads.  We have to use smaller packets when downloading than when uploading,
and download failures happen often.  So it is possible that there is something
about the Apollo that causes problems here.


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Gallagher        kgallagh@digi.lonestar.org OR ...!uunet!digi!kgallagh
DSC Communications Corporation   Addr: MS 152, 1000 Coit Rd, Plano, TX 75075
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.apollo
From: bloom-picayune.mit.edu!pegasus.mit.edu!bri@bloom-beacon.mit.edu  (Brian D. Carlstrom)
Subject: Need Disk Parameters for a MSD-170M Drive
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: fj
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 03:33:04 GMT
Return-Path: <apollo-list-errors@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>

I'm trying to bring a DN3010 back to life that sat on the shelf
for about a year. i need to invol the disk, which is a 170mg 
drive, nodestat -config of a similar machine says its a MSD-170M.
when i run invol on it, it says its unknown disk type 507(?) and
asks if it should read the parameters from the pv label. i say sure
and it fails to read the pv label and asks if i want to manual 
enter the parameters.

What are the parameters of the MSD-170M or where can i find them out?

this drive was running some version SR9.x when it was taken offline
so i assumne the drive is still ok and just needs to be invol'ed to
run SR10.x

-bri
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.apollo
From: bcstec!aw108!vds7789@uunet.uu.net  (Vincent D. Skahan)
Subject: Re: Help Changing Network Numbers.
Organization: none
Distribution: fj
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:47:51 GMT
Return-Path: <apollo-list-errors@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>

levesque@mprgate.mpr.ca (Steve Levesque) writes:

>We have a network of about 25 apollo stations and I have to split them
>into two totally seperate rings, so they don't see each other at all.
>Because they are currently on both ethernet and token ring, we have two 
>seperate network numbers, so I will have to change the network number on 
>one of the networks back to 0.

no you don't have to do that.

>Reading the "Managing Domain O/S and Domain Routing in an Internet" manual,
>it first tells me to make sure I have a slave registry somewhere on the 
>new network (network 0), and then make it the master after the split. 

smart.

>Rather than waiting and using the slave and deleting all the uneccessary
>accounts after the split, I used rgy_create to create a new registry,
>and tried to make all the necessary accounts before the split.

oooohhhh.

>To do this I ran rgyd on the Soon To Be Master node, but didn't tell
>any of the other machines about this new registry, and then ran edrgy,
>and set my site to this S.T.B.M. node.

>However, when I tried to add a new account or to change the properties it said:
>"Unable to add "whatever" - Not authorized to perform operation (RGYC/Server)"
>Even though I did this as root. 

if you did a 'su' to root that's possible
do a '/com/login root' and it'll work.

you might also want to try it after deleting the `node_data/.rgyloc file,
which is kind'a like a hint_file for registries.

>Also, has anybody out there changed network numbers before?

sure, we do it all the time :-(
just split a 170 node ring into 3 interconnected rings...

>Does the book tell all, or are there some unwritten surprises?

Maybe.  The not-always-realized part is that you generally get all kinds
of fun-with-ncs problems when you change an ATR network.  You have to recreate
the glbd database with the new network, then reboot everything so it picks up
the new network.  Also, your hint_file(s) will be all messed up, so do a 
dlf -du on it before you reboot each node.

it's actually reasonably well documented if you look at it after you
did it the first time...
-- 
   ---------   Vince Skahan   -----------   vince@atc.boeing.com   ---------   
	I've finally realized that if you throw enough money and bodies
	at non-existant problems, that they really do appear...
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.apollo
From: bcstec!aw108!vds7789@uunet.uu.net  (Vincent D. Skahan)
Subject: Re: diskless 425e off 425s
Organization: none
Distribution: fj
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:41:14 GMT
Return-Path: <apollo-list-errors@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>

yywang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Yong-Yi Wang) writes:

>I am trying to run a diskless HP/Apollo 425e off a HP/Apollo 425s.
>The OS on the 425s is SR 10.3.4. We also have a diskless 425t off the
>same 425s using the token ring. Now the 425e only has ethernet. When
>we tried to boot the 425e off the 425s, the 425s did not repond to
>the boot (call).

>The 425s is on the outside network using its ethernet card. 
>(So the ethernet on the 425s seems to be OK.)
>However, the principle network on the 425s is token ring.

>My question is:

>Given the token ring as the principal network and the ethernet as
>the secondary network, is it possilbe to boot the 425e and the 425t
>off the 425s at the same time? (There is no problem to boot the 425t 
>as it stands now.)

>Another note:

>To boot the 425e off the 425s, we tried to switch the 
>principal network to ethernet. Then the 425s did not boot. 
>(Well, it went through all the self-tests, loaded the OS and the 
>local files. However, the window did not come up.)


I'm not sure I understand your setup completely, but basically
my understanding is that you can boot a node of any node on
your ATR network, regardless of the media you're using (ethernet
or coax or...)

are you really running the 425t with *token ring* on the ethernet
and token ring on the ring interface ? In other words, if you
type 'lcnet', do you see two distinct networks (one for eth and
one for the token ring) ?
-- 
   ---------   Vince Skahan   -----------   vince@atc.boeing.com   ---------   
	I've finally realized that if you throw enough money and bodies
	at non-existant problems, that they really do appear...
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.apollo
From: sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews@hplabs.hpl.hp.com  (Christopher Beierl)
Subject: Re: SR10.4 Disk Quotas Are Total TRASH
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA
Distribution: fj
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 20:57:44 GMT
Return-Path: <apollo-list-errors@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>

In article <9209151908.AA25075@srvr2.engin.umich.edu> SP02038@SWTEXAS.BITNET writes:
>...
>On a similar note... The PRMGR at SR10.4 is TRASH too.  I have tried everything
>conceivable to get it working, but it still cannot find the global location
>broker.  The glbd is running, and everything is able to access it without
>difficulty EXCEPT the prmgr.  Someone posted something earlier about it, and the
>reply was to use the SR10.3 prmgr.  Well, we upgraded from a much earlier SR and
>don't happen to have the SR10.3 prmgr.  I would be eternally grateful to anyone
>willing to mail me the SR10.3 prmgr as a uuencoded file :)

Patch pd92_m0452 (m68k) / pd92_p0442 (a88k) contains a new prmgr which should fix
this problem.  I believe that both were released on the July '92 patch tape.

-Chris
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Christopher T. Beierl     Hewlett-Packard/Apollo - UTD - Media Technology Lab
INTERNET: beierl_c@apollo.hp.com                        PHONE: (508) 436-4054      
USMAIL: 300 Apollo Dr., Chelmsford, MA 01824           TELNET:       436-4054
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.apollo
From: mcsun!uknet!news.cs.bham.ac.uk!dma@uunet.uu.net  (Denis Martin Anthony)
Subject: X Kernel for Apollos
Organization: School of Computer Science, Birmingham University. Great Britain
Distribution: fj
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:14:31 GMT
Return-Path: <apollo-list-errors@srvr1.engin.umich.edu>

I wish to make some Apollo workstations X terminals to a new HP
network. Has anyone out there already done this? Do you perchance have
an X Kernel available?

Any info welcomed.



-- 
Denis
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.apollo