HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: terry.martinez@f820.n800.z3.fido.zeta.org.au (Terry Martinez)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: 0mm
Date: 30 Sep 92 21:45:00 GMT
Organization: Fidonet. Gate admin is fido@socs.uts.edu.au

Original to: c[
 1;31mRegistered To: Coffee Au Go-Go1;1H1;37m(1;34mMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
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--- FMail 0.90
 * Origin: Coffee Au Go-Go. We don't know what it means either. (3:800/820)
From: rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu (Jeff Bytof)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: HRMS
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:11:17 GMT
Organization: ucsd
NNTP-Posting-Host: lutherlab.ucsd.edu

eric@ils.nwu.edu asks:

>Would HRMS be able to detect signals from Earth, if (lets pretend) it
>was conducted at Tau Ceti?  In other words, do we generate signals at
>the frequencies HRMS will be listening to?

I think the Targeted Search is designed to detect Earth-similar
microwave LEAKAGE out to 80 light years.  The Sky Survey component
can detect Earth-attainable signals out to tens of thousands of
light years.

Jeff Bytof
rabjab@golem.ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: sci.space,talk.politics.space,alt.politics.marrou,alt.politics.libertarian
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: Space Platforms (political, not physical : -)
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Distribution: sci
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 07:43:29 GMT

In article <exukjb.248.717438569@exu.ericsson.se> exukjb@exu.ericsson.se (ken bell) writes:
}
}Does the libertarian party support US withdrawl from the UN?
}//////////////////////////////////////
}/* Kenny  *   Welcome to Mind Wars! */
}//////////////////////////////////////

Yep.


Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Voltaire
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: raich@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Flammable Jammies)
Subject: nova rocket
Organization: St. Olaf College; Northfield, MN
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 01:07:04 GMT

If interested I will get  the authors name.  Also the book lists approximate
measurements to this beast...let me know.

FYI
Thomas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thomas R. Raich                        
Microcomputing Coordinator/               I dont believe in
Academic Computing Center                  quantum physics
St.Olaf College                           when it comes to 
  Internet:    raich@acc.stolaf.edu     matters of the heart
   Phone 507-646-3289  Applelink:UO691       --Crash Davis
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
"I have seen things that you people wouldn't believe.  Attack 
 ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.  I watched c-beams 
 glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate.  All those 
 moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.  Time to die"
				-- Roy, "BladeRunner"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Newsgroups: sci.space,talk.politics.space
From: szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo)
Subject: Re: Lunar landing in 2002
Followup-To: talk.politics.space
Organization: TECHbooks --- Public Access UNIX --- (503) 220-0636
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 20:48:21 GMT

>In article <Bv3pqq.Cs2@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:
>>There is some hope for action on it if Bush gets reelected.  Nothing is going
>>to happen on it for quite a while if Clinton replaces him.
>
In article <1992Sep25.005536.2794@iti.org> aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) 
writes:

>Or if DC-Y is built and works.

But the same politics apply here, alas: SDI is another highly visible
Reagan/Bush program.  If Clinton gets in, we'll have to hotfoot it
to get the program into NASA, perhaps combined with commercial
investment, before it's cut from SDI.  With any luck, we could make
it look like a new Clinton/Gore initiative!

[P.S. I am not partisan here: I loathe Clinton and Bush equally,
but I very much want to see SSTO fly].


-- 
szabo@techbook.COM  	  Tuesday, November third  ##  Libertarian  $$  vote
Tuesday  ^^ Libertarian  --  change  **  choice && November 3rd @@Libertarian 
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: phfrom@nyx.uni-konstanz.de (Hartmut Frommert)
Subject: Re: Mars Observer orbit
Organization: Dept. of Physics, University of Constance
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:11:06 GMT

fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:

>The Hohmann orbits assume the origin and destination are circular orbits in
>the same plane. If you account for the slight difference between Earth's
>and Mars' orbital planes, you get minimum energy transfer orbits that are
>slightly different from a ideal hohmann. Both have an apihelion slightly
>beyond Mars' orbit. One stops at Mars before reaching apihelion and
>one goes all the way out and comes back to reach Mars. Mars Observer
>is apparently on the later sort of orbit.

Of course it may also launch in a transfer trajectory before or after the
perihelion of this orbit, i.e. might first approach the Sun a bit closer 
than Earth, pass the perihelion and go on to Mars.
 Hartmut Frommert                 <phfrom@nyx.uni-konstanz.de>
 Dept of Physics, Univ of Constance, P.O.Box 55 60, D-W-7750 Konstanz, Germany
                                           -- Eat whale killers, not whales --
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: NASA Daily News for 09/30/92 (Forwarded)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:26:24 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <1992Sep30.200509.16758@news.arc.nasa.gov> yee@trident.arc.nasa.gov (Peter E. Yee) writes:
>... the second shuttle mission for a CSA astronaut -
>the first having been STS-41G in October 1984 with payload specialist
>Marc Garneau...

If I were Roberta Bondar, I'd be annoyed about being omitted...
-- 
There is nothing wrong with making      | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim|  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
From: higgins@fnalf.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Don't forget  Other Guy(was Re: Von Braun -- Hero, Villain, or Both?)
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:30:16 -0600
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: fnalf.fnal.gov

In article <5OCT199216375494@judy.uh.edu>, st17a@judy.uh.edu (University Space Society) writes:
> In article <1992Oct5.192844.6175@coe.montana.edu>, billh@orion.oscs.montana.edu () writes...
>>	Von Braun is clearly an interesting and key historical
>>figure in space flight. Has a decent biography ever been
>>written? (in English?)
> Yes it has. I do not know if it has been published or not yet however.  It was
> written by Dr. Ernst Sthulinger who was one of Dr. Von Braun's deptutys. 

Interesting; I didn't know this.

> Every single conference on space development that I have been to in the last
> four years (and I have been to a lot of them) ends up with a cry in your beer
> session about how we need another Von Braun. 

I'd settle for another Korolev.

Wernher spent one night in jail;  Sergei spent years.

Wernher made unprecedented advances in rocketry while working
in two of the world's most technologically advanced countries.

Sergei did too, working in a nation with a far poorer infrastructure. 
Granted, he had some A-4 technology to play with after the war, but so
did the Americans.  

Coming from technologically behind, Sergei beat Wernher to the first
satellite, the first man in orbit, the first woman in orbit, the first
lunar flyby, the first space station, and other points in the "first"
game.  

> In his life and his work he
> was always dedicated to seeing mankind freed from this little dirt ball we live
> on. I happen to know a number of the surviving Germans and each and every one
> of them have worked far beyond their retirements to continue to work for our
> planet having a space faring civilization.  [...]
> They worked and hijacked and shuffled funds to put a capability in place
> that allowed Kennedy to make his famous speech. It is funny that he made his
> speech only after the first successful firing of the F-1 engine, an engine
> program started in 1959. How many of you out there have that kind of character
> or commitment? 

I am sure there are those behind the Rust Curtain who answer the same
description.  I for one would like to know more of their story.
 
> We went to the moon on the back of Von Braun's dream. 

Absolutely true.  Politics being what they were, though, Von Braun
couldn't have done it without Korolev!

     O~~*           /_) ' / /   /_/ '  ,   ,  ' ,_  _           \|/
   - ~ -~~~~~~~~~~~/_) / / /   / / / (_) (_) / / / _\~~~~~~~~~~~zap!
 /       \                          (_) (_)                    / | \
 |       |     Bill Higgins   Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
 \       /     Bitnet:     HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET
   -   -       Internet:  HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV
     ~         SPAN/Hepnet:      43011::HIGGINS 
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: xrcjd@mudpuppy.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles J. Divine)
Subject: Re: Space platforms (political, not physical : -)
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt MD
Distribution: sci
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:32:35 GMT

In article <6840@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:
>Intersting.  Our society is now freer than at any time in our
>history.  Books that could not have been published 50 years ago
>are published.  People can say or do things in public that would
>have had them arrested in many places 100 years ago.  But, as usual,
>people look at the few places where we aren't as free as they'd
>like and bemoan the long lost days.  (To be fair, we have lost
>a few freedoms.  Like, 150 years ago, people would chew tobacco
>in public buildings and simply spit it on the walls or in the
>corners. They'd probably be arrested if they did that today.  Ah,
>for the long lost days of being able to spit chewing tobacco
>freely, before the Rebublicrats [sic] stopped us from doing so.)


Actually, the situation is more complex than this.   Yes, can we
now read books that were banned 50 years ago.  But similar books
were actually available 150 years ago.  Book banning, like many
other schemes to reduce pleasure (e.g., Prohibition, drug war, etc.),
got its start in the latter part of the 19th century.  Before then
people didn't much care what you read -- with the exception of works
of "blasphemy" in places like Boston.

Economically and technologically we seem more constrained than 50
years ago.  Government has been increasingly active in regulating
all manner of activities that were formerly ignored.

Your example of spitting chewing tobacco in public is clearly an
instance of sensible government action to deal with a significant
public health problem of a past era.

Now, would you care to defend the FBI described in Alien Ink?
That's a clear example of a 20th century government innovation
that has been nothing but a vile assault on a free society.

>
>--
>Jim Mann            
>Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  


-- 
Chuck Divine
From: amon@elegabalus.cs.qub.AC.UK
Subject: Re: Nick Szabo Disinformation debunking (Re: Clinton and Space Funding)
X-Added: Forwarded by Space Digest
Organization: [via International Space University]
Original-Sender: isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU
Distribution: sci
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:06:29 GMT

> The French do not seem to think so. They still have an active breeder program.
> My sister happens to live near the CRBR and your memory has to be real short
> not to remember the political wrangling that went on with the anti-nukers 

> and that project.
> 


This time you are both right :-)

Carter was pushing nonproliferation and recycling was considered to be one of the  
key issues to preventing the spread of enriched materials. That made the program  
a political liability.

But when the economics came down against it as well... then the plug was finally  
pulled. More the knockout punch than the total reason for the shutdown.

You can probably find some references to this in Science Magazine. For some  
reason I think it would have been about 1984 that it shut down.

The french had their own reasons for building the breeders. They are more  
dependant on nukes than just about anyone else, and I believe they are more  
dependant on external sources than say, the US.

The french government is also very well known for supporting targeted industries  
regardless of how much money they lose. On the anecdotal level, a brother-in-law  
of mine has told me stories about bidding against subsidized french firms in  
large civil engineering projects. Keep in mind that things may be changing in  
France as well as other places. You can only keep so many tax subsidized plates  
spinning at once. Eventually you either apply triage or your economic goes down  
the tubes. I do not have enough information to say where the french reprocessing  
plant falls on a scale of economic viability. I suspect it will be another decade  
before anyone can say for sure in any case. At present it serves their national  
interest. Clinch River did not serve the US national interest to any great  
extent. As Nick said, the prices went down...



Newsgroups: sci.space
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: Von Braun -- Hero, Villain, or Both? (was Re: Controversy over V-2)
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
	<3OCT199222334167@judy.uh.edu> <SHAFER.92Oct4084155@ra.dfrf.nasa.gov>
	<YAMAUCHI.92Oct4151839@sartre.ces.cwru.edu>
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 20:23:15 GMT

On 4 Oct 92 15:18:39, yamauchi@ces.cwru.edu (Brian Yamauchi) said:

Brian> In article <SHAFER.92Oct4084155@ra.dfrf.nasa.gov> shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes:

>Furthermore, I think this attitude of yours that nobody's hands are
>clean so people can't be criticized without an understanding of their
>history is in large part responsible for the decline of modern
>morality.  You have to step up and take responsibility for your actions,
>no matter what--you can't wuss out with an unhappy childhood or a mean
>mommy or "everybody's doing it".  If it's wrong, it's wrong.

Brian> Maybe, it's a generational thing...

Brian> I think most young people today (with the exception of those belonging
Brian> to the religious right) tend to see the world more in shades of gray
Brian> than in the black-and-white morality of older generations.  The world
Brian> is a complex place...

It's odd that you'd see it this way--in my circle of acquaintances at
work, the young are the most rigid and intolerant.  Maybe those of us
in our forties have succumbed to apathy, but I just don't see the
burning moral outrage in them that I do in the folks in their
twenties.

Reading the Net tends to reinforce this opinion.

Besides, I didn't say that there weren't shades of grey; I said that
having a good excuse doesn't make something that's wrong (by whatever
standard) right.  You neatly excised my reference to the WW I
reparations levied against Germany not excusing Kristallnacht.  Can
you come up with someone, young or old, who can convince us that the
persecution of the Jews was OK because the reparations were so heavy?

How shady is your gray?  Does anything go if someone can just come
up with some "reason"?  Is it OK to be an ax murderer if your mother
abandoned you?  Is it OK to lie, cheat, and steal to succeed if
everyone else was doing it?  Is it OK to lionize a man who was one
of the most effective servants of a barbaric regime?  Are slave
labor and concentration camps forgivable if everyone was doing it?

But it was still neat to see how they used a bicycle chain to move
the V-2 fins.

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous

Newsgroups: sci.space
From: amon@elegabalus.cs.qub.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Wealth in Space (Was Re: Clinton and Space Funding)
X-Added: Forwarded by Space Digest
Organization: [via International Space University]
Original-Sender: isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU
Distribution: sci
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 12:00:18 GMT

> How?  If you lowered platinum costs by a factor of 10, how would you
> benefit "American Industries Inc." more than "Japan Industries Inc."
> After all, Japan Industries Inc. could buy your cheap platinum on the
> spot market just as easily as American Industries Inc.
> 


Well, so what? It benefits Terran industry and improves Terran living  
standards. Stop being so colloquial. This is a planet. We all live on it. A  
lot of us (here) wish to go elsewhere. Nationalism is for children.
From: clj@ksr.com (Chris Jones)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Controversy over V-2 anniversary
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:38:17 EDT
Reply-To: clj@ksr.com (Chris Jones)
Organization: Kendall Square Research Corp
In-reply-to: wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov

In article <6OCT199211420001@judy.uh.edu>, wingo%cspara writes:
>In article <SHAFER.92Oct6081653@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov>, shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes...
>>Just a bit more on the V-2 commemoration: I was reading the stack of
>>papers that accumulated in my absence and found the story about this
>>controversy.  The article stated that over 60,000 slave laborers were
>>involved and that at least 30,000 did not survive.  A German
>>person/group proposed that a memorial to these people be erected at
>>Peenemunde.  I inferred (but it was not explicitly stated) that were
>>this to be done, many German or European objections would vanish.
>> 
>>Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
>
>Mary that is wrong and you know it. There were never any slave laborers at 
>Peenumde. 

Dennis, that is not what she wrote, and YOU SHOULD KNOW IT.  Read what she
wrote.

	   As I said before, there were some Russian prisoners of war but it
>was never identified as to what they did. To connect the mass production 
>center for the weapons with Peenumde is flat wrong and you know it. 

She didn't connect the two.  She said a German person or group had.

								     Give a
>source for your article stating that it was at Peenumde and we will see.

Give a source for your accusation first.

Or get a grip.  And put Peenemunde in your spell list.
--
Chris Jones    clj@ksr.com
From: johnf@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (John Fordemwalt)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 23:16:24 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Porous Silicon
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <3043.1460.uupcb@spacebbs.com>, howard.smith@spacebbs.com (Howard Smith) writes:

> I haven't seen the EE Times article, but it sounds very much like
> something I read about elsewhere--sorry, don't remember where, but 
> it was recent.

From the EE Times article:

   "Experiments at SUNY suggest that a porous-silicon layer is able
    to trap 100 percent of the photons striking it, eliminating the
    additional anti-reflection processing step."

   [ Wayne Anderson, a SUNY researcher, states that ] "... it was
   concluded that the porous-silicon layer converts virtually all
   the light that is trapped.  That would make porous silicon an
   ideal candidate for high-efficiency solar cells."

> The article I read mentioned very high conversion efficiency for
> current -> photons.  I don't recall that it said anything about
> conversion the other way.  But there didn't seem to be anything
> fundamentally irreversable about the conversion process, so the 97%
> figure that you cite doesn't seem out of the question.  However..

You may also be thinking of the June 24, 1991 EE Times, page 39
article regarding "an all-silicon light-emitting diode."

> The catch is that the 97% figure would only apply to point source
> illumination at the single frequency for which the device was
> physically configured.

This is not clear from the article text, although it is implied that
these devices don't radically out-perform other solar cell technology,
just that they are simpler to make (no anti-reflection coatings
required for high efficiency).

In any case, the devices look pretty cool, with power generation,
photo-detection, and photo-emission applications.  Kudos to the SUNY
team!

--
Roger Arnold
arnold@clipper.ingr.com
----------

John Fordemwalt
johnf@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com