HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bfbear@penn.Gwinnett.COM (Penn Collins)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: There was this sign in the window...
Keywords: @$#!% NewsWatcher bug...
Date: 24 Jul 92 00:02:32 GMT

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

> In article <1992Jul22.180155.27529@intelhf.hf.intel.com> hutch@hutch (Stephen
> >Hutch (my brothers are both truck drivers)
> 
> Do you have their phone numbers handy?

Zing!!!
(wishing I had said that....(and tried in vain to think of something t'riffically
pithy to say and failed...)

growf?
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard)
Subject: Re: Unitarian Universalists vote pro-LGB
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 23:59:31 GMT

In article <92204.161849IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Ailsa N.T. Murphy <IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
>yay!  granted, this is my church, and i wouldn't ever have considered
>beig a member if they DIDN'T have this attitude, but it is great to
>hear it nonetheless...  now if only THOSE OTHERS would get a clue...

So how can we join :)
-- 
>>Unix/C Contract worker available 5 years C/unix work experience<<  ______
Available for Telecommuting/Travel and contracts on the T Line       \    /
in the Boston MA area. Send me e-mail for a copy of my Resume.        \  /
       -- VWIS 508-793-9568 (2400 baud), Linux support BBS.--          \/
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Engineer bashing
Date: 22 Jul 92 21:37:07 GMT
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA

In article <1992Jul21.191020.29010@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>eric.hunt@matrix.sbs.com (Eric Hunt) writes:
>
>: It's called "Go to a Liberal Arts College" - I know, I'm at one. I'm CIS, 
>: but the mind reels at the humanities and arts classes I'm required to 
>: take.
>
>Colleges which teach humanities on a level higher than "basketweaving"
>are generally thought to be _good_ places.  What's your problem with it?

What's CIS?  Perhpas they don't teach humanities on a level much
higher than basketweaving.

Or perhaps they have a strict distribution requirement, the lack of
which placed Amherst high on my list of desirable colleges.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "You mean there are TWO of you, Pierce?
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  God help us all."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Major Charles Emerson Winchester III
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Gay martial artists (was Re: aikido!)
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 01:52:10 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.002328.18848@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
> In article <1992Jul30.225047.7741@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
> >(And no snide comments about my queer card. See the photo of me and
> >Johnny "sweet thang" Dorrance skipping in the park hand in hand, first)
> 
> It's a Generation X thang, Arne.  We wouldn't understand...

  I guess you had to be there :-) The little fountain thing 
was I bit beyond comprehension or explaination.
 
> >>>Seriously hon, have you considered getting fucked? You've been
> >>>awfully crabby lately.
> >>You know, you just might have, ahem, put your finger on it.  Anyone
> >>care to volunteer his services?
> >You're the one who didn't show up at the con, dear, not us :-)

  That's my theory. Arne's been awfully cranky lately. I mean
really, "Fuck off asshole" doesn't even have an obscure literary
and/or movie reference in it. I think he is just pouting that he
didn't get to go to the .con. A good stiff -er- helper, I sure, 
will do Arne good. Maybe I should fix him up with our friend
Mark Mann (whose real life name I can never remember, but was very
amused when we put him on our guest list under his stage name).
Or maybe Mark's aquaintence Jeff Stryker (who Mark says is really 
short and chain smokes. Oh, did I mention neurons?). Just how
much crabbiness needs to be -er- rectified, Arne?
  Arne, darling, Mark didn't end up going up Mt Adams, so your
ice axe would have been useless. You did miss the part of Joel
falling over the falls on their little Eagle Creek hike and Todd
saving him (or so he claims). 
  The chiffon may have come in handy at the Greek place; *you* 
would have been far more entertaining than that belly dancer. 
The poor dear, she might just as well have been dancing for the 
Neighborhood Ladies Koffee Klatch.
  Mark does know where to get the best beer in Portland though.
I was happy to know that he approves of the Deschutes Brewery
which is local to my folks place around Bend. 

> There did seem to be an awful lot of that going on.

  Color me clueless (or married), but I didn't see much going
on -- well maybe I did see grandmama being a bit naughty :-)
The Portland folks are *wonderful*, Thanks Mark, Thanks Alan,
Thanks Nelson, Thanks Marc, Thanks Garrit, Thanks Ken and
Thanks Scooter (who I did get to dance with; yum, yum). 
I wanna move :-(
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Metzenbaum introduces Senate bill to end military ban
Date: 30 Jul 92 09:44:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Jul30.094407.28436
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <yq1xg+_@rpi.edu> buckmr@aix.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>
>    Sen. Howard M. Metzenbaum, D.-Ohio, has offered
>legislation to overturn the Pentagon's ban on homosexuals in the U.S. armed
>forces.
>   "I introduced this legislation because I think this military tradition is
>unfair, wrong, discriminatory and a little bit un-American, " Metzenbaum said
>Tuesday.
>   "I think that all people in this country should be treated equally and not
>discriminated against and I think that applies as well to the military," he
>said.

I hope everyone realizes the implications of such a bill, if passed.

1) Gays and Lesbians will have the right to kill and die just like 
   heterosexuals. I'm not sure this is interesting.

2) States where Homosexuality is a Felony will not be able to keep the
   law on the books if they have military bases, i.e. every state in the
   union. For instance, in Florida, you can't be a doctor or a lawyer if 
   you can be proven to be gay, and someone pursues it, since it is illegal.
   The loophole will probably be that non-civilians will not be able to have
   gay sex with civilians, like in Britain. A similar law was recently
   overturned in Switzerland. I think Majors in Britain has even begun
   discussion of eliminating the British provision.

3) Companies who take military contracts, Schools with ROTC, will
   probably not be able to discriminate on basis of sexual orientation.

4) HIV research may fall more and more into the military domain as a facet
   of national security. I'm not sure why it isn't couched in those terms
   now. It isn't a small problem according to doctor friends I have in
   San Diego; Navy personnel who test positive are relocated there for
   desk jobs.

5) A tremendous amount of opposition will come from in-the-closet military
   personnell who stand the most to lose if it could be perceived that
   being casually 'outed' by other personnel would have no career impact.
   The number of gay men and women in the military is considerable; I won't
   even think about the closed gay military circles that exist in D.C.
   alone.

6) Within 15 years, the old-boy and old-girl network ex-military lesbigays
   will be moving into governmental positions, and leaders of industry.
   That's when one will see quite interesting changes.

-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: HIV- cases of full blown AIDS?
Date: 23 Jul 92 04:17:46 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

There are some reports from Amsterdam in sci.med.aids which discuss this
issue.  Also, there was an article about it in this morning's paper, which
said that all the AIDS+ HIV- people have something in common: "the levels
of their protective immune system cells were depressed far below normal" (I
assume they mean t-cells).

James Curran from the CDC pointed out two other things:

1)  Over 40 million HIV tests have been conducted.  The number of HIV-
    AIDS+ people is around 25.  That's a vanishingly small percentage.

2) If they're not HIV+, they don't have AIDS, by definition. 

Curran had not wanted to publish anything about these new cases in the
MMWR, but angry doctors and activists may have caused him to change his
mind.

Luc Montagnier said that he suspects the culprit is a variant of HIV with a
different protein coat not detected by standard tests.

Most of the 25 people involved have not donated blood recently because
they're in high risk groups and were excluded on that basis. 


On another topic, I had always heard that it was not a good idea for two
HIV+ people to have unprotected sex, because they could infect each other
with different starins of the virus.  Another report in sci.med.aids said
that no cases have been found where someone was infected with more than one
strain, suggesting that there's some sort of exclusion principle going on.




-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kjc7435@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.J. Cater )
Subject: Break-up Etiquette?
Originator: kjc7435@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:04:00 GMT

Sadly, two of my best friends just split up after 10 years together....
my question is, should I stay in touch with both of them or not?  I
don't want either of them thinking I'm "taking sides;" although I
communicated more with one of them than with the other, I feel it would
be unfair to leave the other one out. (These two are womyn, by the way).

SO.....for all you Miss Manners womyn out there, how do I handle this?
I'm also going back home in about two weeks, and there is a possibility
I will be visiting the one with whom I communicated well....I don't know
if I should also go see the other, or she'd feel slighted?

I don't want to make any big mistakes about this!!!!! PLEASE
send replies via e-mail if possible to:
"kjc7435@ritvax.isc.rit.edu".

Thanks.    

Miss Kerry Cater.

"doesn't anybody stay together anymore?...."  Phil Collins, 1985.
**************************************************************************
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: gay and bi male lovers (part 1)
Date: 30 Jul 92 03:12:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Jul30.031222.24838
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

Is this sort of stereotyping useful?

I see a collection of features that mr. zwicky is describing:

>exclusively gay
>one man at a time and one woman at a time.
>easy-going, relaxed.
>energetic, restless, always on the move, full of projects.
>likes to think things through and figure out motivations
>prefers to communicate his feelings and wishes nonverbally
>tells you what he wants and likes
>when the sex works ... ferocious, hungry, intense,
>would be a *great* dad
>neither a queen *or* a stud.
>a queen or a stud or some incredible hybrid.

As I read Arnold and Jojo, they are saying that some of these
qualities typically go with gay men, and others typically go with
bisexual men.

But I see no such correlation, myself. I suspect that both Jojo and
Arnold have had much more experience in "dating" gay and bi men than I
have - they both have the advantage in years. Maybe as I live longer,
I will find that these stereotypes are useful.

So far, that is not the case. I prefer gentle, relaxed men who like to
communicate their desires verbally and figure out motivations. Most of
the men I've gotten to know well who match this description are almost
exclusively gay (Kinsey 5+). The one man I have loved who is bisexual
(Kinsey 2) was the exact opposite - ferocious, energetic, didn't talk.
What's going on? Is my own experience backwards? Or are the
stereotypes invalid?

Part of this distresses me, too. I find that the qualities I like, the
ones I wish to have myself and to find in partners, are attributed to
bisexuals, and that the qualities I don't particularly care for are
attributed to homosexuals.

While I don't think Jojo or Arnold meant this, I read their
descriptions as "gay men raunchy fuckers, bi men thoughtful sweet
people". Is there some unusual sexual orientation prejudice I am
reading in these characterizations?
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                   There is absolutely no other possibility
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Vatican equates homosexuality with mental illness
Date: 28 Jul 92 21:24:59 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) wrote:
>As opposed to a crack like Penn made?  Wow, that was constructive,
>wasn't it?  And so insightful!  Insightful enough that it trivializes
>real cases of abuse, as well as insulting people who were raised
>Catholic or who are still Catholic.

I didn't say the original quote was constrictive, or that I in any way
agreed with it.  I'm just tired of your repetitive remarks that asar is
only good for e-hugs, and your current statement such as this would be welcome
there.  You know just as well as I that that is not true.

>However asar may help some people, and I can only trust what they say,
>I think there are some really problematic things about that group which
>have come up in recent months, and I haven't been the only one to
>comment on them.  People don't take responsibility for their verbal
>behavior in the group itself, and there's a lot of inexcusable
>behavior which is excused by virtue of the fact that some of these
>people have been victims of abuse in the past.  Like I've said before,
>I don't think that does anyone any favors.  I think it often encourages
>continued maladaptive and inappropriate behavior on the part of some people
>who need to be directed in other directions.

I think we can agree on this. 

>Nonetheless, I think if you've read my (infrequent) articles I've posted
>in asar in the past few months, they've been more than single-note comments.

I think the note has been a part of your posts.  On this I think we will
disagree.  I think that while you have made some constructive comments,
you have included some negative ones in mosts of your postings there.

>I'll bring my autographed copy of "I'm Dysfunctional, You're
>Dysfunctional". :-)

You never showed it to me. I wonder if that was "abuse."  :-)

>Oh, and Sim, I might growl but I don't bite.
>I do look forward to meeting you there.

Unfortunately our paths didn't cross too often there.  I would have liked to
have talked to you, and many other people, more.  The five days was much too
short.

The question most asked of me during the con:  "So, have you met Steve Dyer
yet?"  The answer is unfortunately both yes and no.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
From: elliott@a8.ima.umn.edu (Frank Elliott)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Do You Remember any Gay/Lesbian Characters on TV Series?
Date: 28 Jul 92 02:24:52 GMT
Organization: ima

Am I the only one who'll admit remembering "Love,Sidney" ?

Frank

(Feeling very old.)
Xref: sparky soc.motss:32117 rec.arts.tv:15140 rec.arts.tv.uk:4424 rec.arts.tv.soaps:25987 soc.bi:9340 alt.politics.homosexuality:5096
From: samc@coos.dartmouth.edu (Scott McElfresh)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.tv.uk,rec.arts.tv.soaps,soc.bi,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Do You Remember any Gay/Lesbian Characters on TV Series?
Date: 22 Jul 92 13:55:19 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In article <armitage.28@ficus.lmc.edu> armitage@ficus.lmc.edu writes:
>a British program I've seen in the States on Public Television once or twice 
>has a gay male regular -- I believe it's called "Are You Being Served".  
>They play off of it with puns and such.

This is a good example I think, but ....   They never actually say that he
is gay.  They make jokes about it, but never come out and say it.  There
have also been episodes where he enjoys women also.  I think the writers/
producers are intentionally leaving it ambiguous just what his tastes are.

-Scott
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gaynet, Mailing Lists, etc. (Was: Re:
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:30:04 GMT
Reply-To: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl
Organization: Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam

In article 165140IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU, IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
:i'm shocked that someone would actually suggest getting onto sappho
:under false pretenses.  FJ, i'm ashamed of you...

That's ok. I'm pretty ashamed of myself as well, sometimes. Just as
long as I could jolt you to remember:

This is the Internet. No guarantees.



:TSes are allowed on sappho as long as the are living as female.

So many questions this sentence starts in my mind...sappho is 'meant to
be wimminspace, pure and simple' yet male->female TS's have a life of
being percieved as a male behind them, so some of their assumptions and
dealing with power must reflect that in their participation on the
list. Or doesn't it show? How deep does it go anyway? If the difference
between being percieved and raised as male or female surfaces and is
made concrete and visible anywhere, it must be here, in this
interaction...

I'm starting to get that urge to '_know_' again. It's dangerous, it has
made me far too often throw my ethics out of the window.

							FJ!!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: I HATE GAY MEN.
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 06:38:05 GMT

There were some really hot guys at the con. *Really* hot. And I don't
think I would be overly egotistical in saying I could probably have
had more than a few of them if I'd have set my mind to it. And I *did*
have a couple of them, and had quite a lot of fun. And reading this
makes me think back on all that motssman watching and fucking and
wonder what's so wrong. The author probably would be disgusted to
hear the casualness with which I can contemplate the chase and capture
of the various babes in attendance, but I'm proud to see how my atti-
tudes about sex have changed as I've grown. One of the more important
lessons I have learned in coming out is that sex is a good and natural
thing, and that shame is the only real evil. And now this person is
saying that I've got it all backwards. That's disturbing.

Seems to me that the author has a pretty one-dimensional, negative
view of the gay community (and the lesbian one, too; he'd have us
believe that lesbians are stoic asexual taskmasters). Sure, anger at
people who don't have safe sex is justifiable, but to extrapolate
that anger to cover all gay men is extreme, as is the suggestion that
gay men are all looksist sex maniacs. That's exactly what the strayt
community tries to tell us. And so what if we are? I know I am; from
day to day I might get turned on by a built blond buff bodybuilderboy
or a burly hairy bear or a scrawny wiry intellexshul. And lord knows
I'm a slut.

So maybe I'm exactly what this person loathes; a sexual faggot who's
not afraid to acknowledge/act on his feelings. Oh well, I'm safe;
I'll live.

--
John Dorrance    ** Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico **    thaaang@odin.unomaha.edu

		I always thought of you as my brick wall
		   Built like an angel, six feet tall.
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: There was this sign in the window...
Keywords: @$#!% NewsWatcher bug...
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:33:56 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <11421@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.145049.1784@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US>, rob@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US (Rob Bernardo) writes:

># A publicly displayed sign stating one's sexual orientation is not just
># an act of saying "no." In context, it's obnoxious and insensitive.

>I see.  Sort of like a public display of affection by a same-sex
>couple.  I guess those laws are OK after all, aren't they?

Rob, does your point also apply to .sigs which make it clear that the
poster is gay?  Why or why not?
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
From: hechtel@meteor.wisc.edu (Leslie Hechtel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: There was this sign in the window...
Keywords: @$#!% NewsWatcher bug...
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:21:43 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Meteorology and Space Science

>In article <84006@netnews.upenn.edu> sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu
>(Sandy F. Smith, Jr.) writes:
>
>>The organizers of the Pride Parade contract with a local ambulance service to
>>provide emergency care for the marchers.  The ambulance brings up the rear in
>>case anybody ahead needs assistance.  This year, according to an article in
>>the _Philadelphia Gay News_, the two-man ambulance crew put signs in the
>>windows reading "We're Straight" in response to what they said were unwanted
>>advances from people along the parade route.  According to the crew (as quoted
>>in the article), bystanders were asking if they could "do it" with them in the
>>back of the ambulance and yelling phrases like "try it, you don't know what
>>you're missing."
>[...]
>>The paper was deluged with letters -- supporting the ambulance drivers.  The
>>general tone of the letters ran like this: "Sexual harassment is sexual
>>harassment, regardless who's doing the harassing.  Putting a "We're Straight"
>>sign in the window in response to a come-on should be no more offensive than
>>saying "no, I'm not interested" to a pick-up line in a bar.  And now these
>>men are getting punished for just saying no?  Come on--this is grossly 
>>unfair."  The paper also excerpted a _Philadelphia Daily News_ column by
>>Jill Porter that made much the same point.
>[...]


If they had *truly* been overwhelmed with propositions, signs that
said "Thanks, but no thanks" or "Sorry, not while we're on duty"
would have done the trick.....without dragging heterosexuality into
a venue in which it had no business.

Leslie

-- 
Leslie M. Hechtel
Dept. of Meteorology
1225 W. Dayton St.
Madison  WI  53706            Internet:hechtel@meteor.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss