HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rnmg1200@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (A Lady and her Walrus)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: Marvel's untouchable corpses (was re: STARLIN SELLOUT?)
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:34:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BtyM1F.7x7
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

In article <1992Sep2.153824.23273@njitgw.njit.edu> bxp1628@hertz.njit.edu (Brian Perler) writes:
>In article <Btx664.4uw@news.cso.uiuc.edu> rnmg1200@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (A Lady and her Walrus) writes:
>>In article <5034@news.duke.edu> eja@soc14.acpub.duke.edu (Eric Akawie) writes:
>>>What other Marvel stiffs are untouchable?  I'd guess Uncle Ben, and um...
>>>well, I can't really think of anyone else after the Parker Parents fiasco.  
>>
>>How about:
>>
>>Norman Osborne
>>Gwen Stacy (pseudo-clones do NOT count)
>>Captain Stacy
>>the Professor who helped Stark make the Iron Man armor (forget his name)
>>Mar-Vell (I hope, I hope)
>>The Ancient One
>
>While I doubt that any of these people would come back, it is also 
>important to note that, with the exception of Mar-Vell, none of these
>people were major characters that couldn't be replaced (i.e., Harry
>Osborne is essentially the same as Norman now, and Hobgoblin seemed
>to be replacing him before).  Most important people don't stay dead.

Well, considering the original example given was Uncle Ben, I figured these
people counted.  After all, the question was who wouldn't Marvel resurrect,
not what major characters wouldn't they resurrect.  I also disagree that
Harry is the same as Norman, but I won't get into that now.

>>There are probably others.  At one time I would've said the Swordsman and
>>Jean Grey, but now...
>
>The Swordsman is a replacement, not the original (I think).

They haven't really said one way or the other to my knowledge.  I know he thinks
he's the original, whatever else he is.  

>Of course, no one would ever be tacky enough to try to resurrect or
>replace the mighty Turner D. Century.  Trying that would be like trying
>to replace the Ringer!  (They did?)  Well, how about Firebrand (What?)
>Uh-oh, look's like Turner II is on his way....

Great.  Another lame-o cheese-o-matic villain.  He'll probably wind up 
getting the Infinity Gauntlet. :)

The Walrus
Xref: sparky rec.arts.comics:22312 rec.arts.comics.misc:1517
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics,rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Abusive postings (Was re: Liefield Throws Tantrum)
From: gary@futon.SFSU.EDU (Gary Hoo)
Date: 23 Aug 92 16:02:57 PDT
Organization: San Francisco State University
Keywords: Liefeld flaming abuse growing up
Summary: Who's throwing tantrums now?  

In article <1992Aug20.165913.28496@intelhf.hf.intel.com> hutch@hutch (Stephen Hutchison) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.140145.16334@ryn.mro4.dec.com> midnight@mdnite.enet.dec.com writes:
>Admitting his cluelessness, the intrepid midnight continues with a handful
>of casual slurs:

Speaking of casual slurs...

>
>[...] I suspect the reason he wanted to pay by check in the infamous
>incident at SanDiego was because he'd recently learned to write his name in
>script) ... and in very short order, took something which had been spoiled
>and turned it into a radioactive festering cancerous boil.
>
>>Jest puzzled.  I'll entertain adult discussion (read: if you
>>rant/rave/drool/name call at me, it's not worth my while to read your letter)
>>by email, so as not to clutter up this newsgroup.  Since I guess I'm the only
>>one who doesn't hate this guy....   :)
>
>Isn't that SPECIAL... How good of you to condescend to entertain our
>discussion if it meets your standards.  How ... kind.  We scrape in adulation.
>
>Hutch  (Incendiary)

As I recall, the foregoing was prompted by a report that Leifeld attempted
to bully someone into taking a check at the SD Comics Con when the posted
policy of the vendor was "NO CHECKS."  This has little to do with the 
quality (whatever it may be) of his books.  This hasn't got a damned thing 
to do with comics in general.  

You hate what Liefeld did to your favorite comics.  Fine.  You feel that by
extension, you have to hate him.  Whatever.  But by abusing someone who has
politely asked why one has to hate the man for his work, all you've done is 
to show a lot of people that you need to grow up.  

							/GaryH

PS--Isn't there a member of the LNH, "Netiquette Lad" or something like
that, who is supposed to handle these types of things?  

PPS--BTW, if this rumor about Liefeld is true, he too needs a lot of 
growing up.  I think the last time I saw or heard of an incident like 
this, it was in a bad '40s comedy.  
-- 
			   gary@futon.sfsu.edu
DISCLAIMER: I do not speak for San  | In the short term ... I'd suggest 
Francisco State University, and I   | some _really_ good scotch, preferably
trust SFSU is suitably grateful.    | consumed in Aruba...--Vince Gibboni
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: w95_cook@wums.wustl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: RE: The New DC Implosion  (JSA)
Date: 3 SEP 92 08:48:16 GMT
Organization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER
NNTP-Posting-Host: msnews.wustl.edu


Actually, I can think of quite a few titles there that could use a little
imploding.  For example, all three (soon to be four) of the X-Wannabe Titans
books!

JC

W95_Cook@wums.wustl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt Hucke)
Subject: Re: Face of Doom
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 13:52:22 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.001424.20588@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> cwelsh@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Craig Welsh  8823239) writes:
>The face of Doom has been speculated on for many years. One of them is
>that Doom isn't really hideous scarred, but is just increadiably vain.
>The explosion that maimed him actually only put a small scar on him, but
>because he was so vain about his looks he decided he was scarred
>forever.

When Doom first put on his mask, it was heated... I don't have the issue 
anymore, but a reprint of his origin showed the newly-forged mask placed on
his face... so even if the scar was originally small, his entire face is 
now destroyed.
-- 
"Americans would be much more likely to convert to Metric if American men
 realized that a 15 cm penis sounds more impressive than a 6" one."
                                                 --Leader Kibo
hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu             _V_a_l_h_a_l_l_a BBS, 217-352-3682, WWIV4.21, 14.4k
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: hunter@cse.uta.edu (David Hunter)
Subject: Re: Marvel Bashing
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, Univ. of Texas at Arlington
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 19:30:08 GMT

In article <rdippold.715045380@cancun> rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
>hunter@cse.uta.edu (David Hunter) writes:
>
>>Oh, I see.  You're only interested in "discussions" wherein everyone
>>has the same opinion.  Pardon me.  In that case I would have to
>>agree that you won't find much of that here.
>
>Given that your standard of a "discussion" is "Geez, you are such a
>fuckhead for having dared to ask that question" then yes, there are
>wonderful discussions.  Others can comprehend the difference between
>having differing opinions on a subject and believing that the subject
>shouldn't even be discussed.

Hmm ... I've been reading USENET for seven or eight years now and I
can't ever recall having called someone a "fuckhead".  I admit there's
a lot of senseless flaming on the net, but that's just part of the
package.  If you don't like it then don't post. 

I've explained why I thought most r.a.c.ers don't like Marvel; that
was the main point I wanted to contribute to this thread.   Whiney
complaints about too much flaming -- these I don't have time for.  

David Hunter
hunter@cse.uta.edu
From: ack@coos.dartmouth.edu (Andy J. Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: My thoughts on Sandman 42
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:08:16 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

manley@iies.ecn.purdue.edu (HELD HOSTAGE -- YEAR ONE) writes:

>In article <1992Aug25.170950.29191@udel.edu> lintz@buster.cis.udel.edu (Brian Lintz) writes:
>  I say it was Thessaly.  It was not Johanna Constantine, since she's dead,
>  and it was obvious last issue that the mystery woman had returned to the
>  waking world.

All we have as evidence is a tombstone. Anyone who's seen the Omen will know
that what a stone says is not always what the grave contains...

>  Ditto for Unity Kincaid (she was my previous guess; damn, I'd
>  kind of hoped it was her).

Same here.

>  Lyta Hall would rather scratch Dream's eyes out
>  than anything else, so forget her.

Also, she's talking on the phone with a friend while Daniel is in the
dreaming. While he is there (And she is still at home on earth in the
waking world) Eve makes comments about how Dream is always with the mystery
woman. So, she can't be the one.

>  All of Dream's old flames (Calliope,
>  Nada, Alianora) are dead or, in Nada's case, an infant.

Calliope is not dead. In fact, I have yet to hear a good reason why it
cannot be her. At the end of Calliope (Dream Country) she indicates that
she wants to see him again and he says No. So, what if he changed his mind
later on? Then she goes back and finds out she doesn't love him...

Let's see, that
>  leaves Barbie and Rose Walker.  I think both of those characters' parts in 
>  Gaiman's story are finished.

Maybe, maybe not. It could be either (I would lean more towards Rose) but
their personalities don't really fit what we have been lead to think...

Reason why not Thes: In Brief Lives #2 he mentions how he only knew her
a brief few months. He's known Thes for quite some time (see end of Game
of You)...

Of course, Calliope is disqualified for the same reason I just disqualified
Thes.... damn...

-A
--
Andy J. Williams    |  AndyJW@dartmouth.edu      |  echo "Hello."
Manager, Computer   |  AOL:AndyJW, ALink:A0192   |  setenv NAME 'Inigo Montoya'
Resource Center     |  CIS: 70254,3235           |  user>kill -9 my ppid
Dartmouth College   |  603-646-3989 (w)          |  Prepare to vi.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: louzon@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu (Louzon ronald g)
Subject: Re: Marvel Bashing
Summary: scary experience
Keywords: Marvel
Reply-To: louzon@aplcen (Louzon ronald g)
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 18:08:55 GMT

>It's probably true that most r.a.c. readers both don't like the 
>I think what gets some people mad about certain Marvel readers
>is that these readers seem willing to blindly follow the company
>line and will buy anything they put on the shelf, regardless of
>its quality.  This distorts the market and discourages the
>production of better quality books.
>
>David C. Hunter
>hunter@cse.uta.edu
>

The scariest thing happended to me at a convention two weeks ago.  I
was sharing a table with some friends and had a box of misc stuff.
Most of it was DC and other sophisticated material.  A kid came by and
I said that I had a set of THE RAY below cover price and he said "I
only collect Marvel."  I was shocked.  I turned to my friend with mouth
agape and said that I couldn't believe it.  He used to manage a store
and said that he's seen it before.  What a pity.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: cwelsh@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Craig Welsh  8823239)
Subject: Ray of hope (was Re:  Marvel Bashing
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 00:09:27 GMT

God bless the New Warriors, the best comic Marvel presently puts out.
Intelligently written by Niceza and the new artist (whose name escapes
me) is good, but not quite as good as Bagley.

The thing about New Warriors is that this proves what good writing can
do. With the exception of Night Thrasher (his new armour is awful,
though) these were all cast off character. Nobodies who couldn't cut it
on their own or doomed to make cameos in Defalco written books.

If I do have a nitpick with Warriors it is with Nita. Not meaning to hop
on the continuity bandwagon, but it would be nice if they linked her a
bit more tightly to the events going on in Namor. Then again, I think
Niceza handles her better than Byrne, but that's another matter all
together.
*************************************************************************
* Craig Welsh                  *    "I'm a few bricks short of a       *
*                              *     load, but a full load always      *
* cwelsh@morgan.ucs.mun.ca     *     hurt my back."                    *
*                              *     "Crazy" - Barenaked Ladies        *
************************************************************************
* "Homeboy from Hell." Screw that. I'm the Waiter from Hell.           *
*  You figure out which is scarier.                                    *
************************************************************************

Organization: Sophomore, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 08:55:52 -0400 
From: "Kevin J. Chen" <kc2w+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: My thoughts on Sandman 42
	<1992Aug27.181314.27871@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>

I'm suprised at all of you.  I think it's fairly obvious who Morpheus'
lover was; it was in fact the Eighth Endless, Dump.  :)

Kevin.
kc2w+@andrew.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: kogutt@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SCAVENGER)
Subject: The Return of Scavenger, Questions and thoughts
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 21:41:14 GMT

Well I just returned from summer break.  It's good to be back (almost 3 months
with no net access-sheesh)

I hope everyone had a good summer.

Anyway upon reading through the back log of articles on r.a.c. I've noticed some
changes and thus have some questions to ask:

1: What eventually happened with the r.a.c. split?
2: What happened to the Legion of Net Heroes?
3: Was Connie's (I think that was who was writing it) New Mutants story ever get
      finished, and, if so, is it archived somewhere?
4: Was the "The Game Eternal" (Dirty Pair story) finished?

and for some comments on recent topics:

I thought that Andrew Hagen's origin for Cable was pretty good, even if it was 
ment as a farce (considering the character, farce is about as good as you get!)

I agree that McKone's art on the L.E.G.I.O.N. annual was really good.  I'm gonna
atribute some of it to one of the inkers, JOHN DELL. He also did the DEMON 
annual and one other that escapes me.  JOHN is from New Orleans (like me) and is
a really nice guy.  He's inking the next LOBO series (FRAG RACE 2000--I think)
The penciler is one of the guys at GAIJIN studios (Doc somebody). Both the 
pencils and the inks that I've seen are brilliant (and a lot of fun).

Durring the talk of DC "imagizing" themselves, I haven't seen any mention of 
their new comitment to their "mature" universe.  They're launching a new imprint
VERTIGO (I'm pretty sure, but maybe it's VORTEX).  KAREN BERGER will be in 
charge and it will include the current mature books as well as new projects (
(like the DEATH l.s.).

I read about DC and Marvels annual plans and they both sound horrid.

BTW Just watch for Marvel to do more trading card promotions (Like X-force) now
that they own FLEER Corp.

Has anybody heard anything about the super-secret next DC/Dark Horse x-over.
All I know so far is that the Aliens are envolved.  I know one of the artists,
but she/he has been sworn to secretcy(?) on risk on not working for his/her
company again. (thus I won't name said artist).

Oh, last I heard (from a friend who talked to Claremont) his Image book is
currently postponed cause apparantly Image is being a real bastard with the 
contracts.  And Portacio is no longer linked with the project.
Claremont is, however, working on a 4-issue ELSEWORLDS-SUPERMAN story for DC. It
sounds really cool.

Well that's it for now.  Catch y'all later!!!

----SCAVENGER

-- 
If some unemployed punk in  New Jersey can get | kogutt@ucsu.colorado.edu
a cassette to make love to Elle McPherson for  |     (Internet/Usenet)
$19.95, this virtual reality stuff is going to | No matter where you go, there
make crack look like Sanka. -  Dennis Miller   |     you are."-Buckaroo Banzai
From: sl859@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: Marvel Bashing, if you please!
Date: 31 Aug 92 14:25:01 MDT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Utah State University

Ned says...
> Marvel deserves a lot of the fault for causing what could be the 
> downsliding of an industry.  They also deserve to be blamed for the inflamation
> of egos of such talents like Liefeild (granted the man writes as great as a 
> three year old and draws really tiny feet -but he can draw), McFarland, and
> (God help us) Jim Shooter.
> But right now, Marvel can afford to make these mistakes -if you really look at
> the competition, they're kind of screwed up as to what to publish or 
> they're next story line.

	I say this is perposterous.  Marvel cannot be blamed for the direction
the comic book industry is taking.  If anything its the people who support the
crap that is being produced by ALL companies.  I don't think you give Marvel
enough credit.  After all they're doing what the majority of comic buyers
want, and I cannot say for certain although using my patented trademarked 
logic-common-sensometer I can most assuredly say the people who read this news
group are NOT the majority of Comic readers in the bis.  Marvel is there to
make mooooolah.  We buy it, we live with the consequences of a given few
nitwits in the comic biz becoming egotistical maniacs.  I certainly wouldn't
blame Marvel or any other comic company for inflating egos either.  They dont
dictate to the people who the consumers will and won't like!  They give you 
what sells.  When comic readers begin to feel like many on this network Marvel,
along with all the rest who follow the leader, will change to meet their 
demands, but for now we must suffer.

							wReam...

P.S.  Contrary to DVANDOM's instantaneous belief, the patented trademarked
logic-common-sensometer says this is not a FLAME...

just the reality of capitalism!

:) <--- The Usual Yellow-Bellied Disclaimer!

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David VanDomelen)
Subject: Re: Captain America, shield-slinger
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:10:11 GMT

Steve Rogers learned by dint of long experience to shield-sling.  Walker's 
problem was learning to do it *exactly* the way Rogers did.
     Dave Van Domelen, there's some kinda magnetic field in this room making 
the screen warple
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: X-Men and Batman Animated TV
From: <CM26ACCW@MIAMIU.BITNET>
Date: Friday, 28 Aug 1992 11:07:42 EDT
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service

I beleive the Batman series will air on fox at 4pm, if not
its 430, I don't recall exactly
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: nectar@world.std.com (Jacques A Vidrine)
Subject: Re: Cerebus TPB (was Re: Marvel Writers slyly criticizing Company Poli
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 15:11:29 GMT

Steve Murray <SXM101@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:

>In article <Bu114u.8tu@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca>, jkdickin@yoho.uwaterloo.ca (John
>K. Dickinson) says:
>>
>>In article <Bu0JzF.83r@world.std.com> nectar@world.std.com (Jacques A Vidrine)
>>writes:
>>>
>>>FYI.  I picked up _Jaka's Story_ and _Melmoth_ from my local comic book
>>>store last week, so these should be available already in most cities.  I
>>>payed $20 for each.
>>
>>        Some special arrangements must have been made. I called around the
>>city
>>today and couldn't find any comic store that had all 6 phonebooks. And I live
>>in Kitchener/Waterloo (twin city) were Dave Sim lives and Cerebus is
>>published.

>I just spent the past few months in Boston, and put a lot of time and
>effort into find the phonebooks.  High Society and Church and State I
>were fairly common, but I only found Church and State II in one place
>(a small Newbury Comics in Goverment Center), and I never saw the
>first book, Melmoth, or Jaka's Story.  So apparently, they are not
>*that* widespread.

Wow!  There's an advantage to living in this small town afterall!
-- 
Jacques A. Vidrine? 	   | "Great holes secretly are digged where
nectar@world.std.com	   |  earth's pores ought to suffice, and things
			   |  have learnt to walk that ought to crawl."
Request my PGP public key  |			- Abdul Alhazred
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: visser@convex.com (Lance Visser)
Subject: Re: Marvel Writers slyly criticizing Company Policy
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 18:49:24 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Aug30.004057.4931@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David VanDomelen) writes:

+>I've made other posts to this effect before (such as the Beast quote), but 
+>here's another.  In Indignity Wars #5, Magus comments on why he brought all the
+>superheroes in: to muddle things up and cause confusion.  The way in which it 
+>was said (sorry, can't quote, my copy's at home) lead me to believe that this 
+>reflected Starlin's opinion of Mega-crossovers as well...all they do is muddle 
+>and confuse, and keep anyone from seeing the real story.
+>     If anyone else notices Marvel (or DC) writers subtly slamming the Company 
+>Line (i.e. maximum profits and damn the story), post it.

	Strange Tales #181 is a 70's warlock story in which Starlin devoted
an entire issue to subtly slamming the company.

	I find it difficult to take Starlin slamming anything very seriously
any more since he has pretty well sold out whatever credibility he had by
bringing Thanos and Warlock back from the dead (which as I remember he said
at one point he would never do).  I understand that hes in it for the money
now, but when your a leading producer of stuff like the Infinity wars, it 
removes any credibity in attacking the Company Line.




Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: bjm1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Bobbie J. Mann)
Subject: Re: Valentino and Image
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 08:11:12 GMT

barnejd@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:

>Does anyone know why Valentino isn't on GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY
>any more?  He said he needed the royalties too bad to quit.  Did
>Marvel fire him?

Yes.

Roland


>  Thanks!
>                                           Drizzt
From: chris@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Chris Casey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: Infinity Wars & Related Stuff
Date: 28 Aug 92 23:12:49 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <BtMK66.KrH@acsu.buffalo.edu> v079m8ta@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Jon J Klaybor) writes:
>
>	I usually read 'down-to-earth' stuff like the X-titles, but

???????  X-Titles down to earth?  Hmmm, well, I never thought so, which is why
I've never bothered picking them up, but I guess everyone's entitled to his 
opinion.

I have enjoyed Infinity War, though, although it seems less and less so as the 
issues progress, but it will definitely be interesting to see how it all ends 
(assuming it ever does :> ).


Chris
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics