From: sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: A Jew knows German ?
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:32:26 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <lexier.716520553@sfu.ca>, lexier@fraser.sfu.ca (Lyle Lexier) writes:
> tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer) writes:
> 
> 
>      Hello Manfredo,
>  
>      What is the difference between "Jews" and "Jewish people" ?

A typical Nazi attitude.  The Nazis were the only ones in
history who also slaughtered born Jews who had converted
to Christianity.  All other closet variety anti-semites
had achieved their objectives by conversion,
at this point and left them alone.
They also sterilized half-Jews.  No previous persecution
also attacked half-Jews, especially those who were not
practicing Judaism.

>      Also, my name is actually Lyle Lexier.  I just love the German people
> that is why I chose a German name.  I have a real interest in the German
> people and their language.  My parents were born here in Vancouver.  Theirm
> parents came to Canada in the 1920's.  
>      I always thought that the Jewish people left Germany in the 1920's and
> 1930's in order to avoid the anti-semitism.  I didn't know that Jews were 
> actually murdered by "Germans".  To me I find it discriminatory against the
> German people when you blame them for Nazis who murdered people.  Then again,
> don't all people kill during war time!  The Germans are no different than are
> Americans, Russians, English, Israelis (who persecute Palestinians), Chinese,
> Japanese, and the list goes on.  I hate it when people keep blaming the Germans
> when Hitler never even planned to murder Jews in the first place.  Didn't 
> Hitler plan to send them to Palestine or Uganda or Mauritania?  Yes, of course
> there were bad Germans, but most of us were good German people.  In actual fact
> there were only the odd Nazi murderer that existed in Europe, just like there
> are murderers today in America, Canada, and elsewhere.
>  

Lets see, most of the Einsatzgruppen were Germans, not members of the
Nazi party, many had doctorates, were artists and opera singers, etc.
The Germans in charge of the death camps were mostly executed after
the war.  We still had Claus Barbie running around until recently
and Schmidt and Brunner are still skulking around the Arab world.
Each death camp had an SS contingent to oversee the Ukrainian
and Lithuanian guards as they murdered 100s of thousands of Jews,
Gypsies, Poles, etc in each camp.  The number of Germans who have supplied
eyewitness testimony about Aushwitz and Treblinka is surprisingly
high, most of them not Nazis.  They worked for chemical companies,
diesel companies, road construction firms, etc.

Just last year the Gestapo commander in Amsterdam (von der Fursten)
and the former civil governer were released from prison.
So much for Holland's 120,000 Jewish casualties.

Murderers in the U.S. and Canada are seldom responsible for the
murders of 1,000,000 plus people as are the Einsatzgruppen members,
In a week a single Einsatzgruppen unit massacred about 25,000 people,
mostly Jews but also local Communist leaders, local church officials,
local intellectuals, etc.  In Makov, near Warsaw the Polish town
officials were publically hung alongside the main Jewish leaders
(NPR radio broadcast interview of a Polish non-Jewish woman from Makov),
or the fellow in Munich filmed in Shoah that used to be the
commandant at Chelmno.  American murderers usually reach 5 or 6
people before someone stops them.  To imply these are ordinary
murderers ignores the fact that the highest levels of government
did indeed endorse these crimes, that all levels of German society
from the civil servants of the transport ministry to the line
soldiers had to contribute to the effort, and that even though
it hurt the war effort, murder was a higher priority than winning
the war.  Can you name one person tried under Nazi justice for
killing a Jew?

The German culture of Goethe, Heine and Beethoven is wonderful,
and was always greatly admired by Europe's Jews.  It is a liberal,
anti-Nazi, progressive culture.  It is no coincidence
that just the other day a Polish poster on another thread
made a sarcastic comment about Jews favoring Germans over Poles.
Yiddish culture was after all at least half-German.
All of this has little to do with the behavior of a majority
of Germans during 1932-1945, and shouldn't be used to excuse it.


		Seth Rosenthal

Disclaimer: All opinions are my own not my employers'.