HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: zaid@seas.gwu.edu (Zaid AL-wandawi)
Subject: Seeking Commercial Solicitation BBS
Originator: zaid@seas.gwu.edu
Organization: George Washington University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 00:56:23 GMT

Hi,

	I have a product I would like to advertise to HW/SW companies.Is there
a BBS that will allow for commercial solicitation? The product will be listed
together with my company's information and contact numbers. I would like to
reach as many people as I can. Please, if you have such information E-mail it
to me and I will forward it to others who request it. Thank you in advance.
From: jmccutch@ds5000.DAC.Northeastern.edu (jeffrey mccutchen)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs.lists
Subject: bbs info
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:37:51 GMT
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston MA. USA 02115

I am a new user of unix and internet. I am a pc/amiga person, but I have
a great idea for a bbs in service of a certain industry. How can I get
info on starting a bbs. Is software available or do I have to write it?
Is any available pub.dom.? 
Any ideas?
Please leave E-mail
Jeff


Newsgroups: alt.bbs.lists
From: casey@well.sf.ca.us (Kathleen Creighton)
Subject: The Most Interesting/Unusual BBS?
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 06:03:09 GMT


I am the BBS/online service reviewer for MicroTimes, a San Francisco Bay
Area computer publication.  But I post this in a private capacity, doing
some research, and I'd like some input from readers of this newsgroup about
the BBS you know about that has an interesting or unusual theme, e.g. UFO
BBS, although it doesn't have to be that far out.  I'll call anywhere to
take a look!

The BBS should be presently online :-).  Thanks for your help.  If you'd
like to send email, I'll summarize and post the list (and maybe add some
of my own faves).

Kathleen Creighton
casey@well.sf.ca.us
Newsgroups: alt.bbs,comp.bbs.misc,comp.misc
From: fournes@belay (Who, me?)
Subject: Re: Coherent Re: The bogus Nixpub Posting
Organization: Belay Enterprises Inc. Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 02:50:31 GMT

In article <BtsqFJ.LEE@gator.rn.com> larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes:
>
>How about UNIX shells for DOS?  These are Unix compatible -- and maybe
>they should be included as well.
>

Hey, why not!  UUPC -- Unix-to-Unix Personal Computers?

(Read with tongue in cheek!) 8-)

                                        --- Eugen
                                path:   fournes%belay@uunet.uu.net
From: Rick.Ellis@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Test
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Aug 21 1992
Date: 15 Sep 92  13:29:44

On <Sep 11 13:29> Robert Presland writes:

 RP> Can you see this?

No!
From: steveh@orbital.demon.co.uk (Stephen Hebditch)
Subject: Re: Big Brother BBS policies
Organization: TQM Communications, London, UK
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 15:28:10 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.162217.1568@panix.com> fnord@panix.com (Cliff Heller) writes:
>However, to require personal information so that you can then rat them out
>to the police is unforgiveable and quite unamerican. 

I read the original message as being that if the cops did come a calling
then you would have sufficient documentation to cover yourself, not that
you should be calling up the police every time someone does something on
your board that might be illegal.

-- 
Stephen Hebditch  TQM Communications  steveh@orbital.demon.co.uk +44 836 825962
From: murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: Fidonet sux
Keywords: Fidonet
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 09:54:06 EDT
Reply-To: murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy)
Organization: The Business Card (BBS), Lawrence, MA - Data: 508-682-5329

randy@psg.com (Randy Bush) writes:

> > I wonder how HE'D suggest I handle a situation like that?  <sigh>
> 
> Why do you folk take all this sooo personally?  Sheesh!  If your NC does not
> want to foot your phone bill, then foot it yourself.

I think Randy's missed the point: Fidonet administrators take themselves too
seriously and if you don't see eye-to-eye with them, they take adverse actions
against end nodes.

He seems to have missed where I wrote that I was perfectly willing to do
everything myself but still needed help in distribution.  My NC was
unable/unwilling to help and when I went elsewhere for that help (the Hubs)
and he found out, he took exception.  My choices were to either take the
gateway down, allow my system to be overburdened to the point of uselessness,
or severly (read: manual intervention) limit the traffic.

What could I do?  I was screwed.

                                      - - - Murph

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
   The Business Card (BBS), Lawrence, Massachusetts - Data: (508) 682-5329
   SysAdmin:  murph@buscard.fidonet.org / ...!ulowell!wizvax!buscard!murph
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: Coherent Re: The bogus Nixpub Posting
From: richard@nacjack.gen.nz (Richard Vowles)
Date: 7 Sep 92 16:06:34 GMT
Organization: Malleus Maleficarum - Nil Mortifi Sine Lucre


>    Wait there...Coherent is Unix, just based on an old release,
>and develop/licensed to someone other then AT&T...if you throw this
>in with OS2/DOS (don't know what QNX is *frown*), then are you
>going to throw in Linux also...that isn't licenced to AT&T??

QNX is POSIX compatable, i.e it is more UNIX than UNIX itself. Of course,
Nixpub is for these inferior UNIX systems, so QNX shouldn't be included.

[A dedicated QNX person]
Hex

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
And Noah Spake unto his children: "Scattered showers my arse!"

FIDONET: Richard Vowles 3:772/110.0         USENET: richard@nacjack.gen.nz
Packet Radio: ZL1UTF@ZL1AB.#11.AKL.NZL.OC   The Demi-Monde: 199:310/1
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: Re2: TBBS/TDBS/UNIX - Price of a BBS
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:23:50 GMT
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser) writes:

>rjus@uonline.com (ren_just) writes:

...

>>When you start comparing costs Larry, please show an objective picture.
>You can have UNIX for free: Linux and 386BSD are free. I don't know what
>happened/happens to BSDI's BSD/386, but it was advertized for $500 binary only
>distribution and $1000 for full source+binary distribution. Unlimited user,
>networking, X, NFS, UUCP, C compiler, etc., etc.

You can ftp it from either agate.berkely.edu or it's mirror,
ftp.mcc.ac.uk. Huge: binaries, source, addtions, etc.

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087

Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: TBBS is very limited
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 06:16:09 GMT

larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes:
>rjus@uonline.com (ren_just) writes:
>>bulletin board systems for corporations and TBBS with TDBS packs a powerful
>>punch.  These corporations could care less about usenet, fidonet and what

>At an expensive price it is a very limited option with no support
>for external third party non eSoft approved applications

More fabricated facts from you on TBBS.  Look, I can understand your
not liking it, it's not for everybody, and if I had my choice I might
be supporting another package instead, but continuing to make up
misinformation about it in the hopes that nobody is going to call you
on it isn't going to help your case.  Note the operative words up
there: "TBBS with TDBS."  TDBS gives you support for external third
party non eSoft approved applications, of which there are quite a
selection.  
-- 
This land is your land.  This land is my land.  So stay on your land.
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: [REGARDING]: Fidonet editorals
Date: 13 Sep 92 23:22:08 GMT
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

beezer@cc.utah.edu (BEEZER) writes:

>In article <2644@aegis.or.jp>, davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes...
>>murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy) writes:
>> 
>>[* editorials by Jennings and Henderson omitted *]
>> 
>>One of peculiarities I encounted with Fido in Japan was the sysops
>>in Tokyo had a requirement that it must be free to the user: that
>>is, the sysop pays.  They said that this was according to the rules
>>of Fidonet and quoted the POLICY4 document. When I got the document
>>and read it, I couldn't find where it said this although it did seem
>>to lay out some policies that were defintely hierarchical. 

>This is odd.  Years back, I was charged for my FIDOnet mail usage as a user.
>I'd send my local sysop funds, and he'd credit it to my account.  Seemed
>to work fine - always paid his and the local hub's cost.

Yes, a lot of people have said that it seemed odd. But that was/is
their policy and I'm not trying to change it. Instead of pissing and
moaning over what is, after all, their decision, I hunted around and
found somebody who would give me a link and didn't mind if Aegis
members kicked in to cover the cost. 

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087



Xref: sparky alt.bbs:5702 alt.bbs.allsysop:654
From: hermit@am.ucsc.edu (William R. Ward)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs,alt.bbs.allsysop
Subject: Wanted: Borland C++-compatible Zmodem source code
Followup-To: alt.bbs
Date: 5 Sep 92 11:22:54
Organization: Computing and Telecommunications Services, UCSC
Distribution: world
Reply-To: hermit@bayview.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


I'm looking for a Zmodem module that I can compile and insert into the
BBS I am working on.  I do NOT want a "door" or any other kind of
external program.  What I'm looking for is C or C++ source code that
can be patched into an existing program.

If anyone has information about such a beast, please send me mail
(note: the reply-to field is "hermit@bayview.com"--if you send mail to
"hermit@am.ucsc.edu" it will NOT get to me and will NOT bounce.) or
post to alt.bbs about it.
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: beezer@cc.utah.edu (BEEZER)
Subject: [REGARDING]: Fidonet editorals
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Salt Lick, UT
Date: 13 Sep 1992 01:32 MST  

In article <2644@aegis.or.jp>, davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes...
>murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy) writes:
> 
>[* editorials by Jennings and Henderson omitted *]
> 
>One of peculiarities I encounted with Fido in Japan was the sysops
>in Tokyo had a requirement that it must be free to the user: that
>is, the sysop pays.  They said that this was according to the rules
>of Fidonet and quoted the POLICY4 document. When I got the document
>and read it, I couldn't find where it said this although it did seem
>to lay out some policies that were defintely hierarchical. 

This is odd.  Years back, I was charged for my FIDOnet mail usage as a user.
I'd send my local sysop funds, and he'd credit it to my account.  Seemed
to work fine - always paid his and the local hub's cost.
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: Sad to say...
Date: 7 Sep 92 22:45:53 GMT
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings) writes:

>In article <2593@aegis.or.jp> davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:
>>
>>One of the reasons I got VPIX for my UNIX system was to allow the
>>possibility of running a Fidonode under its DOS emulation. I believe
>>Dave Hughes in Colorado a UNIX/Fido setup so I'm pretty sure it can
>>be done.... 

> It CAN be done. The problem is that your choices are either really buggy
>and not very good software, paying through the nose for a DOS emulation
>package, or writing your own customized system (which various people have
>done). I am not much of a programmer so that would be difficult. In doing
>so, it would entail taking my board down for a few months, as I said.

This depends on the size of your nose, I would say. I got my DOS
emulator as part of UNIX package so it didn't cost me very much.  In
fact, if I had left out the VPIX and bought just the other things it
would have cost more. 

As for being a programmer, hmmm, maybe this is something that enters
into people's decision but never gets mentioned. I started out in
computers as a main-frame machine-code progammer because I enjoyed
it. I still enjoy creating things so making up the code to fit Fido
onto my system would be a challenge not a chore. 

As for taking your board down for a few months, it took me 6 months
to learn enough UNIX to port Waffle from DOS to UNIX.  The port was
easy, learning UNIX from ground zero was something else! 

However, note that once you get your UNIX system running (and by
UNIX I really mean any true multi-line, multi-tasking OS), the next
version of what users get to run can be developed simultaneously.
No need to shut down the system to 1) let multiple people log on
and run the current version, 2) compile/add/tweak/modify the next
version, 3) have administrative chores fire up and run unattended,
4) anything else that you want.

This may sound too strong: but I would say that if you don't enjoy
programming, it's probably better to stay away from UNIX... 

Only my idea,

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
From: Steven_P._Oliver@bearsden.UUCP (Steven P. Oliver)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: *** ChaelBoard 2.18 BBS Package ***
Date: 8 Sep 92 02:28:19 GMT
Organization: The Bear's Den BBS   (715) 839-7997

can you give a # where this can be DLed from?

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: Big Brother BBS policies
Date: 11 Sep 92 12:08:08 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <HERMIT.92Sep10190239@am.ucsc.edu>, hermit@cats.UCSC.EDU (William R. Ward) writes:
| 
| I've noticed that on a lot of BBS's, the sysops tend to go through a
| lot of effort to identify users.  Things like auto-callback, extremely
| limited access, requiring real names, etc. all strike me as overly
| nosy.
| 
| Can someone please give me a good justification for such activities?
| I just can't see why it's necessary.  If a user won't quit being
| annoying, then just boot them.  If they make a new account, boot them
| again.  Eventually they'll go somewhere else.  At least that's been my
| experience, in the last six years or so of using free-access systems.

  To put it simply, if someone posts something legally actionable, like
a PIN number, where to buy drugs, etc, I want to be able to point the
police at the poster and away from my system.

-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
    I admit that when I was in school I wrote COBOL. But I didn't compile.
Newsgroups: alt.bbs,alt.bbs.ads
From: hlk5268@ultb.isc.rit.edu (H.L. King )
Subject: List of BBS's
Followup-To: poster
Originator: hlk5268@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:40:58 GMT

Hi Folks,

Could anyone send me a list of BBS's in the Rochester, NY (716)
area?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance
-Heidster
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: TBBS/TDBS/UNIX - Price of a BBS
From: kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 10:32:39 GMT
Organization: ACME BBS - Public Access Usenet, Palmerston North, New Zealand

larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes:

> rjus@uonline.com (ren_just) writes:
> 
> >Larry, could you please provide a price for a UNIX system to do the following:
> > 
> >Run up to 16 users
> >Allow the use of a database system of some sort
> >Be inexpensive to maintain
> >Be inexpensive to set-up
> >Be inexpensive to upgrade
> 
> The cost of the UNIX (as low as $495) and using free software.
>
> [...entire DELL spiel deleted...]

Gee Larry, thanks for posting THE ENTIRE FUCKING DELL UNIX SALES BROCHURE.

I hope Dell are giving you kickbacks or some sort of commission for pasting
this verbiage all over the net.

I don't have any idea what the "TDBS" database provides, but I didn't see
an equivalent in all that DELL blather.

Considering that most of the chrome you're getting with full SYSVr4 is
probably unecessary for someone just wanting to run a 16 user BBS, they
could just as easily spend $99 on Coherent 4.0 and get a full 32bit Unix
clone with UUCP and development system, with no limit on number of users.
This would easily support 16 lines with a typical multiport serial card on
an average 486, maybe less.

						- k

PS: I'll ask again, because you didn't reply last time - why are you so
insecure about which OS you use?
-- 
Craig Harding            kilroy@acme.gen.nz             ACME BBS +64 6 3551342
"Jub'f Xvob?"
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: mclement@access.digex.com (Matt Clement)
Subject: Re: phone systems
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:39:14 GMT

bx690@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Mirza) writes:

>   Have you ever phoned up one of those phone systems where you
>can get information without talking to anyone by choosing options
>with your touch tone phone? Some examples are train schedule info
>and tourism info. 

>Does anyone know how complex these systems are and how expensive?

These systems can be had for as little as $199 (from a company called 
BigMouth, appropriately enough.)  Their number can be found in Computer
Shopper.

--Matt
mclement@digex.com
From: psyrobtw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: mail to and from wwivnet
Date: 6 Sep 92 04:58:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


How do I send mail to and from a WWIVnet BBS from an internet address?

Thanks...

=============================
Robert Weiss
psyrobtw@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
From: Robert.Presland@helldisk.helldisk.helldisk (Robert Presland)
Sender: FredMail@helldisk.helldisk.helldisk
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Telegard, other BBS info needed.
Date: 13 Sep 92  14:15:34 EST

 -> If there is another easy to use, DOS (or WIN) BBS out 
 -> there that would support
 -> this, I would greatly appreciate the help.

Max handles this nicely.
From: elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: Fidonet sux
Keywords: Fidonet
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 18:02:39 CDT
Organization: Minas Tirith BBS (Public Access Usenet for New Orleans)

murph@buscard.fidonet.org (Brian Murphy) writes:

> Oh, man, the double work!  You'd explain to someone how to ask a sysop to set
> up netmail access.  If that didn't work, you'd have to find other local
> Fidonet BBSs for the guy to try.  He'd send himself a test message and then
> that _sysop_ would call and object to my intereferring with the operation of
> his system by informing the users of netmail.  On and on...  All this just to
> get mail from one place to another.
>
> And let's not forget the time-lag!  Half the time I'd wind up crashing the
> message directly to the target system.  After awhile, my system's popularity
> grew such that I could no longer afford to crash these messages all around an
> I began routing them through my NC.  His system promptly deleted them!!

Gawd, I remember those days.  One of the things that would really piss off some
of the net coordinators was when someone would subscribe to a busy mailing list
(like ADND-L).  Get a couple of users like that in your area and you were
sucking in lots of mail from your uucp host, then dumping it right back to your
NC.  I didn't mind so much, but some of those guys really freaked at the
increased traffic.

> I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the objections I got from some of these
> coordinators as they complained about the amount and length of some of the
> netmail traffic.  Don't you DARE try routing a uuencoded file!  :-)  Yeeks!

I can remember gateway operators that were actually trying to work out programs
that would filter out mail from mailing lists and uuencoded files.  I'll admit
that fidonet does have better methods of file distribution, but that was going
to an extreme, IMHO.

> Ahhh, the good ol'days.  Hey, Ed, I understand you're the moderator of
> alt.ketchup.  How long do you think that group will last?  :-)

hehehehehe...no I only mentioned alt.ketchup to twist Larry's tail a bit after
he mentioned the 2500 newsgroups.  We've got to work on that number, IMHO, if
that includes alt.ketchup, alt.is.not, alt.is.too, and
alt.ensign.wesley.die.die.die <g>.



>Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us<
>Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087<
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder)
Subject: Re: Sad to say...
Organization: The Gator Public Access Unix Site - 219-289-3745
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 21:36:01 GMT

davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:

>>or as pointed out earlier, you could run rfmail under UNIX
>>to allow for direct support for fidonet under UNIX.  We at
>>one time were running rfmail -- but after maybe 6 months decided
>>fidonet wasn't worth the effort..

>When you say it wasn't worth the effort, how come? Technical problems
>like buggy programs? Network problems like uncooperative hosts?
>Fight-o-Net social problems (like you often mention :-)

we carried fidonet here originally to lure users from the local
fidonet nodes (TBBS systems for the most part), but after those
folks played with the usenet newsgroups and internet email, the
fidonet interest stopped -- so we stopped the service

-- 
Larry Snyder                                    internet: larry@gator.rn.com
keeper of the Gator                                  uucp: uunet!gator!larry
Newsgroups: alt.bbs,comp.dcom.modems
From: berger@atropa (Mike Berger)
Subject: Re: RE-USRobotics SysOp deal
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:14:56 GMT

wolfgang@netcom.com (Wolfgang Henke) writes:

>naddy@mips.ruessel.sub.org (Christian Weisgerber) writes:
>: In <r-vn!5f.wolfgang@netcom.com>, Wolfgang Henke writes:
>: 
>: > There are some manufacturers who where before USR in introducing V.32bis
>: > modems to market.        
>: 
>: Are you willing to name them?

>Digicom, Forval and maybe Motorola's modem divisons.

>I just repeat what the consensus was in some other conference on this
>point and this may not necessarily be correct. 
*----
Why would anybody care?  It's not like USR INVENTED v.32bis or beat
anybody to the market by a significant amount.  Isn't it funny how
totally irrelevant issues, used effectively in advertising, can take
people in?







>-- 
>   _________________________________________________________________________
>   Wolfgang Henke        wolfgang@henke.sf-bay.org       wolfgang@netcom.com

--
	Mike Berger
	Department of Statistics, University of Illinois
	AT&TNET     217-244-6067
	Internet    berger@atropa.stat.uiuc.edu
From: Steven_P._Oliver@bearsden.UUCP (Steven P. Oliver)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Yup
Date: 11 Sep 92 23:21:30 GMT
Organization: The Bear's Den BBS   (715) 839-7997

Use QBBS.  It will respond to just what you are looking for as far as
nodes,etc.  Hooked up properly, QBBS can do almost anything.

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: trwagner@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Ted Wagner)
Subject: BBS like internet MUDs (do they exist?)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 15:37:35 GMT

	Hi.  I was wondering if there are any BBS programs
out there that are similar to a MUD environment....do they 
even exist?  At least, are there BBS's with a TALK command or
something like the VMS PHONE command?

	I would be very interested in a BBS which is similar to
a MUD where there are 'rooms' or places to go and to talk
to others on the BBS.

Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks

Ted

-- 
         Swallowing your pride rarely leads to indigestion.
         A hard thing about business is minding your own!
-trwagner@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu   &    trwagner@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu-
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.bbs