HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: georgen@pooky.cs.mun.ca (George Noel)
Subject: Re: FWWM gripes
Summary: Useless and misinforming?
Keywords: I disagree
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 02:55:58 GMT

In article <Bu38nu.211@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes:
>ww10aac@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Eddie the 'ead) writes:
>
>>   a.  The useless Leo and Shelley scene.
>
>    I can't imagine Leo scrubbing floors for any reason.

 I disagree, that scene wasn't useless.. to the Laura Palmer story it was,
 BUT it answers a question from the TV series.. in the TV series Shelly
 says to Bobby when he tells her about Leo and Jacques and the drugs and says
 "I *KNEW* he was upto something" - in the movie Shelly overhears Leo on the
 phone with Bobby during that floor scrubbing scene and hears Leo ask about
 the $5000 and mouths to herself "$5000?".
  
  Also, remember in the pilot version when Josie tells Pete to "pull the
  plug" at the mill.. Pete is sitting down, saying to himself..
   "2X4s, 4X8s.." repeatedly (I found that scene funny alone) apparently in
   the movie there is a scene cut where Josie and Pete make reference to a
   choice between 2X4s and 4X8s which was supposed to be funny. This would
   explain why Pete was saying that in that scene.
>
>   Also, if Mr Gerard knew Leland was BoB, why the false alarm about
>Ben Horne in the TV version?

 I don't think it was because of Ben Horne, it was because Leland was
 a little ways outside the room, in a hall and after Phillip Gerard
 falls to the floor, they shown Leland smiling evily.
>
>
From: dcormell@sscvx1.ssc.gov
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: <None>
Date: 8 Sep 92 22:20:49 GMT
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory

In article <BtzCM0.G47@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey) writes:
> Date:  2 Sep 1992 21:52 EDT  
> Distribution: world
> Keywords:  
> 
> In article <1992Sep2.211218.22627@adobe.com>, asente@adobe.com (A Usenet Pal) writes...
<previous interesting stuff deleted>

>> But with Laura, on the other hand, I think you've missed a big
>      piece of the point: Laura wasn't killed out of jealousy, Laura
>      was killed out of RAGE because she had the strength (as Leland
>      when he was a child did not) to resist BOB...  BOB wanted Laura
>      as his new host...  She resisted him from the ages of 12 to 17,
>      and it nearly cost her sanity (or maybe it DID cost her sanity).
>      Scott Gorcey

Comment to above paragraph:

Yes, I think that Laura was killed out of RAGE because sh resisted, BUT only
that last day - up until then I think she was too afraid to resist Le/Bob so
gave in, and only on that last day, when she saw Le/Bob as he was really he
dad did she get up enough courage and remember when she went to school that
last day, and told him no more, leave me alone?  To me that marked her as
Le/Bob's next victim.  Interesting thoughts you've given me about the train
sceen.  Just saw the movie FINALLY last night so it is really fresh in my mind.
I *LOVED* it, my husband just thought it was OK.  I'd say, but the audience
here in Dallas, seven in the whole theatre last night (movies been out 1 wk)
that we will see this out on video within two months.

Quietest show I've even been in.  My husband and I were the only ones (I think)
that were fans from the other 5 people's reactions.

Any other thought's on when we will all get to rush out and buy the video
(and ruin one copy just using freeze frame again, and again, and again...)

debbie > dcormell@SSCVX1.gov
From: jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: Who's Judy? "Garmonbozia" == "I is Windom Earle"?
Keywords: Judy
Date: 15 Sep 92 21:30:49 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1992Sep15.173842.20274@cs.wm.edu> adrian@cs.wm.edu (Adrian T. Filipi) writes:
>I
>believe the story of Windom Earle's involvement with the Lodge would be
>very interesting. Unfortunately I would not expect to see more of Cooper than
>was seen in FWWM.

Maybe not.  How about a pre-prequel dating back to the time when Dale was
new to the FBI and just partnered with Windom Earle?  The autobiography
makes it clear that Windom had contact with the Lodges (and maybe even BOB)
even back then.

The story could lead into the story of Caroline.  Just think: "Twin Peaks:
The Face of the Man Who Killed Me"...

Of course, Kyle wouldn't want to do another whole film just about him.
Sigh.

> As a last and conclusionary part, It would be great to have it
>all laid out on the table concearning Cooper and these visions, his ring, etc.

Even less likely.  David Lynch, like Andrew Cartmel, doesn't so much hate
happy endings as he hates clear endings.  Double sigh.


Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
From: abbe@athena.mit.edu (Abbe J Cohen)
Subject: BOB linked to Coop's mom's death?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:53:34 GMT

I'm new to this whole bulletin board/network thing, and I still haven't seen FWWM,
but when I found this net, I couldn't resist reading even the spoilers.  After
looking thru Coop's autobiography, I noticed something that may or may not be
related to the question of the ring and its significance.
Taken from the book:
Coop's mother died when he was 15(?).  Prior to that he spoke to her about dreams 
he had been having of a "man who [he] had never seen who was trying to break into
[his] room.  He kept calling [him] and said that he wanted [him].  He then 
screamed and after a moment it turned into a kind of roar as if he were some kind
of animal" (25).  His mom said that she had had the dream too, and that he must
never let the man in.
    -Later, she told Coop she was having trouble keeping him out.
    -Then, after she died, she came to Coop in a dream, looking younger than when
he knew her.  He couldn't hear what she was saying, but when he woke up he found 
a ring in his hand.  Locked it in his desk, but found it fit on his pinky finger
perfectly.
    -He also found a picture of his mom wearing the ring as a teenager.  His dad
said she stopped wearing it after they were married, and that it had been her 
fathers and was given to her after his death. (44-45 if you feel the need to look 
it up.)

Does anyone have any ideas whether this is related to the ring in FWWM that was
being discussed in various spoilers on this net?  If so, then does this mean that
1. BOB was involved in Coop's mom's death, 2.  wearing the ring has something to
do with being killed by BOB,  3.  Since Coop tried on the ring (to know that it 
fit his pinky finger perfectly), is he going to die too, making the last episode
of the series both more understandable and more depressing,  4.  Does BOB perhaps
choose victims hereditarily (Coop, his mom, perhaps her father;  Laura, Leland).

Any comments on any of this are welcome over the net or by email (abbe@athena.mit.
edu).  						Abbe Cohen
					        (or physics wench if you prefer)
From: drewds@peptide.ecn.purdue.edu (David A Southwood)
Subject: Symbolism List
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 22:42:59 GMT

Add on to the symbolism list as you see fit....

COLOR
White:  White Angel, White Mask, White Horse, White Lodge, White Yak, Cocaine,
White Swans, Blond Laura

Blacks:  Black Lips, Black Dog, Black Lodge, Black Stitches, Black Water, 
Black King, Black Spiders, Black Grim Reaper (over white background)
, The Night, SUNglasses.

Reds:  Red Drapes, Red School Chair, Red Corvette

Greens:  Green Globe, Green Formica Table, Green Owl Cave Ring

Blue:  Blue Rose, Blue Lights, Project Blue Book

Pink:  Pink Rose, Pink Flower

Brown: Monkey, Owl, Tree

Orange: Fire, 3- Triangle Symbols

Yellow: Corn

Purple: None

Grey: None

MOON: Various Phases shown.  Symbols on box.
FIRE: Everyone has a fireplace.  Reflected in sunglasses.  Fire Walk With
Me.
ELECTRICITY:  Television, Flickering Lights, Telephone Pole, Neon Signs,
Telephone Wires, Electric Fans (stolen from Blade Runner), Static, Lightning
WATER:  The Juice Droplets, Lakes, Shaking Hands
SUN: NONE.

Numerology:  Coopers Room Number at the Great Northern. (I think this was
             303, but I don't remember.)
             The Telephone Pole #
             2 + 4 + 8 + 1 + 0 = 15   1 + 5 = 6
             2 * 2 = 4 * 2 = 8 * 2 = 16 - 10 = 6
             BIG 6
             The OAM Room Number
             5 drummers
             3 cops
             7 in the bar outside of town.
             3/3 = 6 on the domino
             Theresa Banks Room Number (1+2+3 = 6)

CIRCLES:     Circle of White candles, Circle of Trees (Glastonberry Grove),
5 Rings (Owl Cave, Golden Circle, Twisted, Audrey's, Diamond), Roulette
Wheel, Eyes

BROKEN HEART: (only 1)

SYMBOLS FROM SPACE: 3 TRIANGLES TOUCHING, 2 MOUNTAINS TOUCHING

STATUES: In the black lodge, with & without arms.

SHADOWS: Shadow against the drapes in episode 3

ANIMALS:  Monkey, Owl, Swan, Dog, Horse, Raven, Llama, Waldo

CALENDARS: Chinese (Year of the Horse, Dog, Monkey)
           Assyrians (Phases of the Moon)
           Clocks everywhere.

TWINS: Maddy & Laura, Bob & Leland, Jade & Emerald

RELIGION & THE OCCULT:  Conjuction, Magic Circles, Souls, Totem Poles,
Telepathic Dreams, Premonitions, Black/White Lodge, Sorcerers, Shamen,
Black Magic, Dopplegangers (also the name of a very good album by
Curve)., Numerology

Boneless - a light beige color.
Fire = pain & suffering.
Moon (is also called) - The Queen of Heaven or The Queen of Night.
The Forest God = The Corn Spirit (in Sylvian Mythology)
Hell in the bible is referred to as "The Fire that shall never be quenched."

"Fire Walk with me" is probably just a sort of "call to the power of evil"
STARS-SPACE-GRIM REAPER-WHITE BACKGROUND-ORANGE SYMBOLS-OWL-FIRE

I think the show is just a symbolic fest for religion with no real driving
end point now.

Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
From: wwc@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (wanna.w.chin)
Subject: The missing 6
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:06:51 GMT
Keywords: 6

Regarding the numbers on the pole
24810
  6
and the previous post on how you can add them to get two 6s but not three 6s.
Here's another 6.

Take 2 and double it, you get 4.
Take 4 and double it, you get 8.
Take 8 and double it, and you should get 16.
But you actually have 10 which is 6 less than 16.
Hence the missing 6.

Wanna
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
From: wiljo@kiel.uucp (Wiljo Heinen)
Subject: Q: Blue Rose (was Re: FWWM (Spoilers))
Organization: OPeN - The Digital Advantage
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 20:31:45 GMT

v113np2v@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (George D Emmons) writes:

>Some comments...

>1) Loved the girl in the beginning. The fact she was there did
>two things for me: One, I instantly respected Desmond for picking
>up on all those clues JUST LIKE THAT! Two, and more importantly,
>GORDON KNOWS ABOUT THE LODGE. Blue Rose, remember? Now, why
>hasn't he said anything?

Well.. now that is my chance to ask a question, that shows my total
ignorance:

WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THE BLUE ROSE ???

So far I'm totally clueless. George, pls. enlighten me, I tried to 
figure it out, but I don't have the slightest idea ...

Wiljo
-- 
wiljo@kiel.uucp            voice:+49 431 95311              fax: +49 431 978126
               "Alle woll'n was von mir haben / keiner will was von mir wissen"
                                       Die Lassie Singers --- "P.A.R.A.N.O.I.D"
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
From: lester@soldev.tti.com (jim)
Subject: Re: More on "pain and sorrow," and fear
Summary: Josie's armmoire
Keywords: Connection
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 04:43:04 GMT

In article <18h4v6INN9qi@agate.berkeley.edu> sally@anableps.berkeley.edu (S. A. Wilson) writes:
>.......... makes me wonder even more about Josie's missing weight after
>her death from fear--wasn't that how Coop referred to her death, that it
>was as if she died from fright.
Do you suppose she was missing the weight of, say, her left arm??  Yeah,
I know it wasn't physically missing, but this is Twin Peaks.
That's why she's stuck in the drawer pull ... she can't just reach
out and open it.  The LEFT arm is the SINISTER (fr. Latin) one.
"I am the Great Went."

Jim
Jim Lester  (an employee)               Citicorp slash TTI
90405  (310)450-9111, x2209             lester@soldev.tti.com
			 "Thunder is good, thunder is impressive,
			  but it is lightning that does the work."  - M. Twain
From: bert@medley.ssdl.com (Bert Medley  )
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Annie's speech in FWWM!!?!?!?!!???!
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 22:14:01 CDT
Organization: Medley's Homestyle Waffle

I just saw FWWM for the second time [no mean feat here in Houston TX as only 
2 theatres now carry it.] and realized that Annie said something verrrry
interesting -"The good Dale is trapped in the Lodge." - not Black Lodge,
not Good Lodge, nor waiting room - ,but "the Lodge".  Suppose there is one
and only one lodge??????


--
Bert Medley              !
bert@medley.ssdl.com     !
From: v113np2v@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (George D Emmons)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: I FOUND OUT WHAT GARMONBOZIA IS!!!(Spoiler, of course)
Date: 12 Sep 92 01:32:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

My roommate and I were playing on the new sounds program he got 
for his Mac, recording things, playing them backwards, and then
recording us saying the backwards stuff and playing that backwards.
You all know what I'm talking about.
Anyhow, we found out what garmonbozia is. Press "n" now if you don't
want to find out...































okay...When we played "Garmonbozia" backward, we got the following:

             "I is Windom Earle."

Try it yourselves. We repeated the process, with both Garmonbozia
and "I is Windom Earle". They're the reverses (Dopplegangers?)
of each other. Okay boys & girls... debate this away....:-)
                                        George...
"I'd better put temptation out of your reach!"
                                       -Leia Organa
From: enomura@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Eddie the 'ead)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: "You shot Mike"
Date: 10 Sep 92 20:08:14 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Sep10.162031.17073@cco.caltech.edu> UnoJ writes:
>By the way, I am not so sure that it is the same deputy as in Deer Meadow. How
>are we so sure about that? I tried to look at the credits but I only could find

It is clearly the same person.  Besides, the shooting script so says that
we are to recognize him as Deputy Cliff.

ed


-- 
   /\__Edwin Nomura -- enomura@ucsd.edu__________.:___________.____________/\
  / \\        .:.         .                      : .         :            / \\
 /  \\\   :  .::     :     :  Fire walk with me  :..        : .     :    /  \\\
/   \\\\..::..:::.:::::.:.:.....:::::...::..:...:::::.:.:::::.:....::.../   \\\\
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: Comments from 2nd viewing
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:53:04 GMT
Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com
In-reply-to: jblum@hamlet.umd.edu's message of 14 Sep 92 19:58:57 GMT

In article <15437@umd5.umd.edu> jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...) writes:
   In article <1992Sep14.033515.6596@cco.caltech.edu> UnoJ writes:
   >LeBob closes the door, the OAM looks at Ronette and simply
   >(coward!) walks away.

   It interests me that people are building whole conspiracy theories about
   MIKE being evil on the fact that we didn't see him check to see if
   Ronnette was OK.

It isn't just that.  It's also that he doesn't do anything to try to
save Laura, once he determines that she is being killed.  And, in the
lodge, he demands his share of garmonbozia.  These don't seem to be
the acts of an unambiguously good guy.  Also, I raised a point that
had always troubled me from the series: that when Mike described ``the
pleasures'', he licks his lips in a lascivious manner, which is hardly
what you'd expect of a reformed inhabiting spirit but which is
consistent with him being a decoy, giving Cooper just enough rope to
hang himself.

-30-
Bob
From: C491153@MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU (John Schultz)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: FWWM - second time around, a second try
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:58:36 GMT

I forgot to include some more observations from my post yesterday, here
they are...

I noticed that Leland's wound or whatever was visible in the train car when
he was wrapping Laura in the plastic.  I didn't think to check during the
cabin scene.

Both Pierre and the strange fellow from Jeffries' dream sequence are seen
holding a stick-like item.  Pierre has it when he runs in a circle at the
hotel (as Leland is leaving), the other guy has it in the dream sequence.

I think I have an idea for the semi-frequent shot of the stairs in the Palmer
house during the series.  We get the same shot in FWWM, except Laura is
running down the stairs after she finds BOB looking for the diary in her
room.  I think this is symbolic of underlying fear that BOB creates, but I
could be stretching it a bit here.  Any ideas?

Anyone else notice that we have the return of the stuffed animal heads in
the Deer Meadow police office?  Still not sure what those imply...

John Schultz (caffeine abuser)   !  ABC killed Laura Palmer
c491153@mizzou1.bitnet           !  Macintosh-free and proud of it!
c491153@mizzou1.missouri.edu     !  Subscriber to the hacker ethic
From: rhaller@oregon.uoregon.edu (Rich Haller)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: Comments from 2nd viewing
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:53:47 GMT
Followup-To: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Organization: University of Oregon

In article <BARB.92Sep13223047@chamarti.ai.mit.edu>, barb@zurich.ai.mit.edu
(Barb Miller) wrote:
[spoilers ahead]



[spoilers ahead]



[spoilers ahead]



[spoilers ahead]




[deletions]
> Presumably once she developed a concrete fear that her connection with
> James would prove fatal to him, she felt that the power of his love to
> save her would not stand up to Bob's power to destroy her, so she
> decided to keep her rendezvous with darkness.

I think you may be right about this. The shooting script is much more
obvious about BOB's involvment in the Donna incident:

#      asking what Laura's father looked like.  Laura starts to get it on
#      with Buck when she hears BOB, "See what we can do to Donna?"  Laura
#      screams at Jacques to get Donna out and at Donna to never ever wear
#      her clothes.

There isn't a similar reference in the section of the posted summary where
she leaves James at Sparkwood and 21, but my memory is at one point in
their little scene she seems to have a vision (presumably of BOB).  By now
she is convinced that  the only way she will escape BOB is by dying and
that otherwise, she will corrupt both Donna and James, like she did Bobby.
Ultimately involving them with BOB.
 
In the Harold incident, she specifically states that she believes he is
safe from BOB, though she later states it is dangerous for him to take the
diary.

-Rich
From: tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Terry Carroll)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: OAMs
Date: 14 Sep 92 23:54:06 GMT
Reply-To: tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Terry Carroll)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation

In article <3307@carroll1.cc.edu>, lzett@carroll1.cc.edu (Leslie D 
Zettergren) writes:
> In TP Jerrard is one of the names of the OAM.
> In Fugitive Jerrard is the police Lt. in search
> of Kimball.  Did the Jerrards have the same first
> names too?

Yes; Phillip.

> In the Fugitive Jerrard chased Kimball who chased
> the OAM.  I'm not sure whether the Fugitive's OAM
> was ever given a name.

He was, but I can't recall it.

Terry Carroll - tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com - 408/992-2152
The opinions presented above are not necessarily those of a sound mind.
From: ulrich@galki.toppoint.de (Ulrich Gall)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: TP publications (wanted)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 10:37:02 GMT
Distribution: world               
Organization: private UUCP site, Kiel, Germany

Hi,

I don't really read this group and I hope this is not a FAQ:

My girl friend would like to actually UNDERSTAND what goes on in Twin Peaks. I
know that's probably impossible and not really the idea of TP, but still -
there must be a little more sense in it than we get from watching a terribly
translated version of TP on TV ( Just imagine: TP in German...)

Does anyone have a list of all TP publications? Is there a book that really
helps understanding the story? Maybe one that goes along really close to the
TV series?

Does anyone have the scripts for TP?

Please send mail since won't be here for a few days, so I might miss a couple
days of news.

Thank you so much,


Ulrich
Ulrich Gall, Seebrooksberg 2, W-2300 Klausdorf, Germany
Tel.: +49-431-790292, EMail: ulrich@galki.toppoint.de


Ulrich Gall, Seebrooksberg 2, W-2300 Klausdorf, Germany
Tel.: +49-431-790292, EMail: ulrich@galki.toppoint.de
From: dgd@csd.bu.edu (David Durand)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: FWWM: Some thoughts about thread (spoiler)
Date: 7 Sep 92 21:07:20 GMT
Distribution: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Organization: Roberstool Research Labs


When Mike is yelling at Leland saying "the thread will break" I
couldn't help but think or Bob's last words before he left Leland
(from memory, so no flames if it's not quite right, but corrections
welcomed) "And then I'm going to pull the cord, and all the memories
are just going to flood back in". And then Leland realizes what he's
done. So perhaps Mike is warning Leland that if he doesn't give up
Bob, he's eventually going to have to face all that he's done.

   Also, Laura notices the burned smell _before_ Leland starts racing
the engine -- so it must be a Bob-ish manifestation, not a the engine
racing.

   Perhaps (as suggested by the fact that the arm is already gone)
Mike _is_ good in FWWM, but just somehow powerless against Bob (in
traincar scene). When he and the LMFAP insist on their Gormonzobia,
and Bob heals Leland, perhaps that's for Leland's own good: If he died
before Bob pulled the string he'd lose his chance for redemption,
which does get (like Laura) through Cooper with an assist from the
Tibetan book of the dead.

    Many things to think about...


    -- David Durand
From: salmieri@whitebase.ukp.com (Gregory Salmieri)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.twin-peaks
Subject: Re: Now we know who Mike is... (SPOILERS)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 92 20:09:31 EDT
Organization: UKP Systems, Middletown, NJ

-> BUt he also saw BoB and Leland seperately. I don't think he
-> ever saw the OAM in the Lodge, did he?
The only time we or anyone elce for that matter saw both Leland and BOB at 
the same time was when Lealand was flowting in the film.

-> I think you might be confusing MIKE the spirit with Phillip
-> Gerard, the man.
No, Mike took the arm off. Because he was in the OAM (Phillip Gerard) at the 
time the OAM felt the effects. What I was saying is that if the LMFAP(the 
miget) is Mike's arm as he implies in FWWM then he cauld not be MIKE as a 
whole. 


 /-------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| It's all a game...                                                        |
|                        Gregory C. Salmieri                                |
|                                                       ...It's all the same|
 \-------------------------------------------------------------------------/