HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu (Greg Pavlov)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Bayliner myths: a challenge
Date: 7 Sep 92 15:27:56 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

In article <1992Sep3.163343.26227@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, heon@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (garry.j.heon) writes:
> In article <184ti1INN1fk@gilligan.East.Sun.COM>, mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori) writes:
> > In article <1992Sep3.021622.28298@mdd.comm.mot.com> zintel@mdd.comm.mot.com (Mike Zintel) writes:
> > Speed != immaturity
> > 
> > As long as a person handles a fast boat SAFELY, then you should
> > have no problem with it. .......
> > One can be an immature jackass in a canoe. It does not require
> > a big engine, just a lack of common sense.
> > 
> Very well said.  ....
> jump the wake of our local NYC ferry.  I must admit it's wake is
> very large (broke an arm of a passenger jumping it myself), ....

  NO inconsistencies here.  Jumping a wake and breaking a passenger's arm
  is the "mature" thing to do.  The immature thing would be to jump a large
  wake in a SeaDoo, or whatever the hell they call those things....

  greg pavlov
  pavlov@fstrf.org

  (yes, I'm sure it was the passenger's fault, one way or another....)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: billp@voyager.chm.clarkson.edu (Bill Plunkett)
Subject: Re: "Jiffy" reefing
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:05:44 GMT

From article <1992Sep9.215730.24186@morrow.stanford.edu>, by francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir):
> My Freedom 21 has built-in one-lead jiffy reefing on each of two
> reef points, and its not as practical as it should be. One problem

> and no mechanical advantage? Could i use blocks at the reef hooks to
> return me the 2:1 advantage? Is it OK to use blocks like this or is it an
> aerodynamic disaster? maybe blocks are OK forward at the mast end but not
> at the leech?

Sailrite sells a small, streamlined turning block that is meant to be
sewn (or riveted?) to a sail (instead of a reef cringle), just for this
purpose.  Although not aerodynamically ideal, I don't think any kind
of small block would be a "disaster."  The sewn in block does look
like a nifty solution, however.  I think the catalog said suitable for
"small boats" (under 30'?).  Call for a copy if you're interested:

Sailrite Kits       (800) 348-2769

-billp

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mwhhlaw!tim (Timothy E. Hollingsworth)
Subject: Re: Splices vs Bends
Reply-To: uunet!mwhhlaw!tim
Organization: Martin Wade Hartley & Hollingsworth
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 12:08:22 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.154645.2047@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu  
(Francis Muir) writes:
> My Freedom 21 came with several lines finished with eye-splices. In
> aperticular, there was one at the end of the mainsheet that was attached
> to the fiddle (?) on the main block. The problem was that that there was
> so much length to the splice that the sheet had a problem getting round
> another block when I was hauled right in. I then rtealized how much I
> really disliked splices in braided line. So, I turned the line around,
> rerplaced the eye-splice with a carrick bend, and got margaret to execute
> one of her super whipping jobs to the (bitter?) end. It looks better,
> and its pretty obvious how good it is; I can never tell with braid splices
> just what they're up to. I'm going to go round the rest of the fittings
> replacing eye-splices with Carricks. The carrick bend, by the way, is
> my favorit (and only!) bend, and I'm surprised it is not more used.

I thought you lose more strength with a knot than with a splice.  The figures I  
recall are 60% of strength retained with a well executed knot and 90% with a  
splice.  I can splice three strand from memory, but have to have the  
instructions in front of me to do braided.  I use a Uni-fid (now Uni-Fid II,  
West Marine Model 3172297, $23.50).  The included instructions are as clear as  
I have found any where.  The finshed product looks neat and seamanlike to me,  
but that may be a matter of taste.

--
Tim Hollingsworth
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: STU@mwvm.mitre.org
Subject: Re: Need advice on small used runabout power boats
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:56:49 GMT

>My husband and I are in the market for a small used runabout for skiing and
>exploring on a lake.  The lake in question is Wheeler Lake, part of the
>Tennessee River reservoir system in Alabama.
>
>We found a boat that we are interested in - a 1987 Bayliner 1750 Capri (~17 foot)
>with a Ford 2.3 liter I/O engine.  The boat is attractive, it seemed to be
 
The Ford 2.3 is, IMHO, a little to small for solom skiing with other than
a light, experienced skiier.  For two ski skiing - it is just fine.  Economical
to run, reliable and a reasonable engine.
 
The Bayliner problems are no worse than any other small boat.  I've owned
several - the only very serious problem I know of is that the windows in
some models "blow out" with potentially very, very serious effects.  Our
side window shattered and threw glass into my son's face - only luck
prevented very serious injury.  This has happened to several in our area.
 
If your Bayliner is the one with two side windows of non-safety glass, be
careful.  they only used that crap for a few months - so it is unlikely.
 
I took my 19 foot Capri-Bayliner on several 200 mile weekend trips - really
pusher her very hard - with little problems.  She was as least as reliable
in that type of use as my first MasterCraft - a boat of twice the cost and
1/2 the reliability.
 
If the engine is OK - and the outdrive looks good, buy her - get a stainless
cupped prop for a little better ski performance (add $400 to the price for
the prop change).
 
 
Enjoy the boat - it will be fun.  /Stu
Xref: sparky rec.boats:6149 ne.forsale:3956 misc.forsale:25704
From: long@nic.near.net (Dan Long)
Newsgroups: rec.boats,ne.forsale,misc.forsale
Subject: Olympic Tornado For Sale
Date: 8 Sep 1992 21:14:53 -0400
Organization: NEARnet, Cambridge, MA
Distribution: na
Expires: 11/15/92
NNTP-Posting-Host: nic.near.net
Keywords: sailboat, sale

**** Posted for a friend ****

20' Olympic Tornado Catamaran -- 1986 -- White hulls -- Race ready 
Lots of extras -- Asking $5500

Call Andrew at 617-367-0870 (home) or 617-726-7323 (work)
-- 
Dan Long
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Re: knots and splices
Keywords: not auto, full display
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 18:23:01 GMT

>
>  
>                                       \  ATDT Switch
>                                    ~X  X  X~
>     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~   ~   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~                      
>     ~                                  ~               ~
>     ~                                  ~               ~
>     ~                 Voltmeter~~~~~~~Synchrotron      ~
>     ~                          ~       ~               ~
>     ~                          ~       ~               ~
>     ~       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[-]~    [+]~               ~
>     ~       ~               -----------                ~
>     ~       ~               |Dilithium|                B2
>     B1      ~               | Source  |               Light
>    Light    ~               | From    |                ~
>     ~       ~               | Engine  |                ~
>     ~       ~               -----------                ~
>     ~       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~          ~ 
>    [+]   [-]~                               ~[-]    [+]~
>    Battery 1                                 16" gun


Francis,

How about some ASCII artwork for your bowline alternative?
(you weren't planning to do anything this weekend, anyway)
My little black book of knots ( written by J.T. Burgess, 
revised by Cmdr. J. Irving, copyright 1934) describes the 
Carrick Bend as "two overhand loops crossing each other...a 
very secure means of fastening together two hawsers of different 
sizes".



Stefan
From: tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lauri Tarkkonen)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Furling Jibs & Reefing Mains
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:21:07 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In <1992Sep15.182740.7254@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:


>Lauri the Finn had good advice about Single Line Jiffy Reefing --
>don't use it. He's right. I split mine into two and straight away
>the whole thing is much less of a strain to pull in, and there's
>a real advantage in being able to seperately tension the luff and 
>leech lines. It means that my first and second reefs now occupy
>four lines going back to the cockpit, but what the hay, I've got
>eight line stoppers. Also, i don't anticipate flying a spinnaker
>this or next season, so I've lots of deck hardware available. Lets
>see, 4 reef lines, 2 halyards, 3 sheets, 1 cunningham, 1 outhaul,
>1 cinningham...wow, it adds up...

Happy to hear that someone believes. The number of lines is the tradeoff
you pay for the advantage of less friction and better control of the 
shape of the sail. In my book the shape of the sail comes fairly high.

In my boat I have three reefing lines, but two sets of reefing lines.
Then I have messenger lines to the third reefing lines; this is a loop
that is moderately tight going through the second and third reefing 
cringles one in the luff and one in the leach. Where the ends of the
string meet, the other forms a second loop about four inches in diameter.

When the first and second reef are pulled in and I think that I later
might need the third one, I untie the end of the first reef reefing line,
attaach it to the small loop in the messenger string and pull the reefing
line through the third cringle and tie the end of the reefing line to
the proper place in the boom. This is done for the leach and the luff.
Then when I need it I just pull in the third reef. (This sommer was
fairly windy in the Baltic Sea, even the third reef was used several 
times.)

>Oh yes. Someone mentioned reefing blocks from SailRite (?). These
>replace the cringles and might have significantly less friction.
>They are only $3.85, so I ordered a couple to look at. I'll let
>you know how they work if I get to install them.

The reefing blocks are not a bad idea, but if you have the third reef
as I explained, then it might be difficult to pull the reefing line
tied to the messenger string through the block.
                                
- Lauri Tarkkonen
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Subject: Re: Inexperienced boaters
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 12:49:27 GMT

In article <3669@unisql.UUCP> torsten@unisql.UUCP (Torsten Weirich) writes:
>
>Speaking of mistakes...after launching my boat hundreds of times, I think
>I made what I consider to be one of the most embarassing mistakes...I
>partially submerged my trailer without first putting the plug in my boat.
>

Reminds me of my first real boat. My dad had owned and raced a C-class catamaran
(a Hellcat 3-S), which sat for several years in our driveway. When I was
about 16, I asked him "If I get Cataclysm in shape, will you teach me to sail
her?" and he (in a moment of madness) said "I'll go you one better--I'll give
her to you." 

So I spent a lot of time repainting her, replacing the trampoline, etc. And
then, without my Dad around, I tried to launch her one summer day. We took her
over to a place with a hoist, dropped her in the water, and proceeded to start
stepping the mast (which is 35 feet long, and seemed to weigh about a billion
pounds at the time). As we set it down into the mast step, the center beam
began to bend, and bend, ...  and then we realized that we'd forgotten the 
dolphin striker.  Well, we set the mast down on deck lying down, and figured 
we'd just tow the boat across the harbor to my home, put in the dolphin 
striker, and raise the mast. 

About this time, a fellow on the dock said "Uh, guys??? I think perhaps your
trusty craft is sinking..." Sure enough, she was about 7" down in the water
(this boat normally draws about 3"), and sinking fast---no plugs in the
transoms. 

We did eventually recover from this ignominious start, and I kept that boat
going for about 8 years, as the plywood she was made of began to delaminate,
etc. 

A remarkable craft overall. She was 25' long, 13' beam, carried 300 sq ft of
sail on a 35 foot mast, and weighed about 450 lbs fully rigged. She used to
start humming when we got moving, and sometimes it felt as if we had an engine
that was a little out of alignment the way she vibrated. 

And when we eventually replaced the trampoline with nylon mesh with a 2" grid
(which meant that lines tended to fall through, but it *was* cheap), she kicked
up an amazing rooster tail from the dolphin striker--the plume would rise up
through the tramp, over the aft beam, and land well aft. Sigh...

I think that this was the boat that taught me caution, though. As she
deteriorated, I got to experience things like seeing the traveller lift away
from the aft beam, watching the centerboards start to fall apart (they were
essentially butcher-block construction, and the glue began to fail), having the
dacron trampoline slit down the middle so that one had to crawl across the
beams to tack, having the forward beam develop a large crack in the tail end 
of a 3-day nor-easter in Buzzard's Bay, and having someone step through the
deck. 

I never managed to do what my father did, though: he pitchpoled her in the
middle of Woods Hole...

-John
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: www@Ingres.COM (Bill White)
Subject: Re: Wind - the movie
Reply-To: www@Ingres.COM (Bill White)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:49:24 GMT

Thank you, Stefan!  I only wish you'd posted this a few days earlier!  I
saw this over the weekend, and I agree with every word of your review!

Great photography!  Ridiculous story!  

--Bill

In article <1992Sep14.171110.25994@leland.Stanford.EDU> stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski) writes:
>Anyone who wants to see the new movie "Wind" had better do so quickly.
>This tub is about to sink at the dock.  "Wind" (or is it "Gas"?)  has
>some great footage of 12-meter boats bashing through the waves like
>overwrought rhinoceroses. Unfortunately, these scenes make up a mere
>10% of the movie. The rest is devoted to a plot of intense stupidity,
>concoted out of pure cornpone and steeped in hogwash like an old piece
>of salt horse.  The Hero and Heroine are detestable yuppies, straight
>out of "Top Gun" by way of a Lite Beer commercial. They set out to win
>the America's Cup. He says things like "If you believe in your
>destiny, you just have to go out and believe in it.". She has nice
>legs, a PhD in Aeronautical Engineering, and says things like "This
>idea is so crazy it just might work." (ok, I made that last bit up).
>He's so sensitive that, before deciding on the final shape of the
>hull, he goes out into the desert to scream. The audience knows
>exactly how he feels. When it's time for the final Cup race, everyone
>is rooting for the Australians, whose skipper is (unintenionally) the
>only likeable character in the movie
>
>One breast. No dead bodies. Petroglyph fu. Ripped spinnaker fu.
>Dry-humping afterguard fu. Gratuitous Puccini aria. Gratuitous North
>Sails logo.  Print ad has mast mounted backwards on boat. No Stars 
>(great International 14s, though). Joe Bob says go sailing instead.


Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: donr@hpcvcdo.cv.hp.com (Don Reid)
Subject: Re: Splices vs Bends
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 18:53:49 GMT

jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes) writes:
: In article <25689@castle.ed.ac.uk> ercn72@festival.ed.ac.uk (R.J.Hare) writes:
: :A buntline hitch is simply a clove hitch tied around the standing part of a
: :rope with that ropes own fall. The clove hitch is tied with the bitter end on
: :the inside of the loop so formed so that it is trapped when the loop is drawn
: :tight. 
: 
: 
: For those interested, this perfectly-described "buntline hitch" is the same 
: as the "stu'ns'l tack bend" mentioned in anohter couple of postings.


Well I am still not sure I understand the expalination.

This may be getting pretty bad, but below is a ascii graphic of
what I think was described.  Is this what you mean?


                                 Standing part
                                     |
                                     |
                                     |
                          \----------|------\
                           \         |      |
                        /---\---------------/
                        |    \       |
                        |     \  *---|------\    * is end coming out of screen
                        |      \     |      |
                        |       \-----------/
                        |            |
                        |            |
                        |  LOOP      |
                        \____________/
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: stop Auburn Dam, save $1 billion
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:42:02 GMT

>Auburn Dam is being touted for flood control,

Using 'California' and 'flood' in the same sentence is
contradictory.  ;^)

--Chris

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: lampi@polari.online.com
Subject: Re: Advice on Purchasing a Canoe
Organization: R Squared, Redmond, WA (206) 883-3116
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 20:26:22 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.183726.4046@phx.mcd.mot.com> gpaul@phx.mcd.mot.com (Gerry Paul) writes:
>I am a new reader to this group.  I would like some advice and product 
>recommendations before purchasing a canoe.
>I would like a canoe that is suitable for lakes and calm rivers.  The main use 
>would be for short day excursions with little gear.  
>I would like the canoe to be large enough for two adults (occassionally three 
>adults on a short trek around a local urban lake).
>I want to keep the price to about $500.
>One product line that seems to fit is the Old Town Discovery series, which 
>comes in various lengths from about 14 to 17 feet.  I was particularly 
>interested in ther Discovery 146K, which is 14' 6" with a keel.
>
>I would appreciate any information/advice/expericen that you have regarding 
>the type of canoe that I am looking for.  In particualr, is a 14' or 15' 
>boat stable enough for two or three adults nd little or not gear, or am I 
>better off with a 16' or 17 canoe.
>  

I've had the Old Town Discovery 169 for a couple of years, and it is a
pretty durable canoe. It does quite well in the sometimes choppy water
(due to water skiers, jet skiers, yachts, etc.) that I've been in, and
has *no problem* with 2 adults, kid & equipment, etc. However, it is
pretty heavy (about 88 lbs.) which makes it a bit inconvenient for my
wife & I to lift onto our car/van/whatever for transport. (Yes, we're wimps.)

-- 
-----
+-+  Michael Lampi       lampi@polari.online.com
|R|  R Squared           16398 NE 85th St., Suite 101, Redmond, WA 98052
+-+                      (206) 883-3116       fax (206) 883-2676
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy)
Subject: Re: dry suit and winter gear
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 01:15:27 GMT


So what do you wear on your legs?  Polypropoline, wet suit?  I'm confused.
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy)
Subject: Re: AWA subscription
Keywords: AWA
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Distribution: ca
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 01:45:17 GMT


When you join AWA, one of the things you get is the magazine but they
also send you a few other things, trivial but nice.  They have  a great
brochure with a C-1 canoist going off a fall, its on my desk, keeps me
sane during the week.  Anyway, the address is AWA, P.O. Box 85,
Phoenicia, NY 12464  It costs $20 to join AWA and the contribution is
tax deductable.  The group is dedicated to conserving whitewater resources
and promote river safety (that's what the subscription form says)  I called
the editor and she dropped the issue in the mail to me even before she
received my check.  Neat group.
From: scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: American Rivers
Date: 12 Sep 92 20:28:58 GMT
Reply-To: scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Columbia University


	Does anybody know anything specific about American Rivers.
	Like, do they really do the good job they claim, or are they just an
	oversized, bureaucratic (sp?) nightmare?

	I was a member last year, but am not very impressed. Now I am trying to
	decide whether I should re-up.

	Anyone have any input?
-------
Bored of my old .sig and lacking enough bikes to make an impressive list...
Sea-Bass Sears --> scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu --> DoD#0516      |Stanley, ID.|
'79 Yamaha XS750F -- '85 Toyota 4Runner -- '92 Perception Corisca|    NYC, NY.|
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy)
Subject: Re: dry suit and winter gear
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:32:37 GMT


thanks a bunch for your input.   don't plan to swim much in the winter, plan
to keep paddling so as not to get rusty but don't plan on hitting any
class 4, I don't even do that now.  But do want everything, versatility but
wanna stay dry.  We plan on paddling small streams that usually only run
that time of year, so even if I do swim, don't expect it to be a long one..
famous last words...
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: steve@pepe.aero.org (Steve Sedlacek)
Subject: AWA subscription
Keywords: AWA
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation; El Segundo, CA
Distribution: ca
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:15:48 GMT

I would like the subscription address of the American Whitewater
Association magazine.  I was a River Runner subscriber until it
turned into Paddler and would prefer to subscribe to a magazine
with more whitewater focus.

-- 
Steven Sedlacek			sedlacek@aero.org
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Guidebook opinions
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 16:12:42 GMT


>The worst guidebook I've seen is Anderson & Hopkinson "Rivers of
>the Southwest".  Every time I run something in their book, I am
>amazed at the inaccuracy of their description,

He leaves out Supermax (V+) in the Baily Canyon Run.
The first edition had a typo on the Lower box rating,
it is class IV not class II.

> and the pomposity of their prose.

It probably helps to know Fletcher.  As a native Aspenite,
I love his description of Aspen.

>Stohlquist's "CO Whitewater" is OK but kind of
>class-V-kayak nerdy and limited.

I like the format, but Stolquist couldn't have been more
than a Class-IV boater at best.  He tells you to avoid
all sorts of things that are fairly routinly run and even
leaves out whole rivers (e.g. Clear Creek).

Going by his description of the Animus River it sounds
like you have to be God to run it, when in actuallity
no particular rapid is harder than V-.  He also overrates
everything by at least half a grade  (it has good ratings
if you are squirt boating).

--Chris