From: PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.peeves,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Statement of President Clinton on Health Care Reform Task Force
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:06:09 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee

In article <1993Jan26.231247.9812@odin.corp.sgi.com> zursch@whizkid.wpd.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide) writes:
>>Yeah, that's right. The government should steal money from those who 
>>have it and give it to those who don't...
>
[assumption of studenthood deleted]

>The for-profit health care system
>in this country is manifestly broken. 

True enough.  It is over-regulated.

The insurance companies 
>providing "health care coverage" are little better than your average
>coke dealer. 

This is true as well, but that is because they have both a captive audience 
and a protected market.  You can't start a small or specialty insurance 
company today.  It's illegal.

>I've been steadily employed since leaving college and 
>I've never had more than the most minor occasions to use my
>benefits. (The odd wound requiring sutures or a trip to get my 
>prescription for my contact lenses updated.) And even though I
>belong to one of the better "self-funded" plans, I have yet to ever
>have the insurance company pay a claim without sending me 
>some kind of nasty note disputing the nature of the claim or
>my coverage under some small print. 

That's because it's in their best interests not to pay.  This keeps costs 
down.  Do you expect socialized medicine to even TRY to keep costs down?

It's ludicrous.  
>
>I took EMT training a short while ago, and the guy who taught
>it was an ex-paramedic. He told us that he tries to get everyone
>he teaches or knows to get a medic-alert bracelet with their 
>insurance information on it, because without it, you simply will
>not get treated until someone plunks down a card for you. He said
>that this is especially important for non-white people, who routinely
>die in the ER for lack of care because they don't assume that you
>can pay or have insurance.

Someone's got to pay for it.  Who do you suggest should pay for services 
rendered?  The state?

>
>The point is, you will pay for it one way or another. You can either
>shut up and pay taxes and get some warm fuzzy somewhere in

I don't want a warm fuzzy, I want control over how the money I've earned is 
spent.

>your being that you are doing your part to keep your fellow humans
>out of poverty and degradation, or you can work to achieve some 

I can do this without the state extorting the money from my paycheck.

>Libertarian fantasy world. Which, now that I think about it, isn't
>such a bad thing for you to do, since it will keep you out of the way
>of those of us who have real work to do. But even if you achieve 
>some kind of Libertarian/Feudal utopia, you'll pay for security
>*from* the poor if you don't pay for security *for* the poor. 

How does this follow?

>Louis
>XVI found that out the hard way....   

Louis XVI is irrelivant here.  He neglected to support his power-base:  the 
nobility, and angered them.  When they refused to support the monarchy, they 
lost not only their titles, but their heads as well.

>
>Am I the only one who gets bored stiff listening to Libertarian 
>drivel all the time?  

Drivel?  Why do you dismiss assertions you cannot successfully rebut?

>You'd think that we were living under maoism
>in this country the way these bozos whine about everything...Bill

I fail to see where expressing an opinion in a public forum consitutes "
whining."

>Clinton starts talking about basic health coverage and they start
>going on like he's gonna come by and steal the food right outta
>their children's mouths. 

Someone has to pay for it.  Some of us prefer to decide what, if anything, 
we spend the fruits of our labors on.  If you are content to let the state 
make those decisions for you, that's your privilige.  Others would prefer to 
make those decisions for themselves.

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