From: soufi@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled S. Soufi)
Subject: Re: Syria, Iraq, and the future of the MidEast
Keywords: Secert Deals?
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 22:45:50 GMT

nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:

>In article <1992Apr2.083212.10607@m.cs.uiuc.edu> soufi@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled S. Soufi) writes:
>>nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>>
>>[...]
>>
>>>Khaled and Elie
>>
>>>I think that religious attacks are outrageous. Talk politics and leave religion 
>>>alone.
>>
>>Politics in Lebanon is stuffed with religion.  While this might come
>>as a shock to some, it sadly is a fact.  So, Nabil, if you have any
>>wise suggestion on how we (the people who write to s.c.l) could chat
>>about, discuss, or debate Lebanese politics without the mention of
>>religion, then by God, let us know what the deal is.  If you don't
>>have any suggestion, then I suggest that you go fly a kite.

>Well, one way for avoiding religion is to refer to group of people by
>their Militia names like, "Kataib", "Ahrar", "PLO", Hizballah", etc...

I don't know if you noticed, the above militias, with the exception of
the PLO, represent religious sects in Lebanon!  And even if I were to
go along with you on naming the religious groups in Lebanon using the
aliases that you have provided above, I still have the problem with
the distribution of government seats based on religion!  The president
of Lebanon is still required to be a Maronite, how would you work
around mentioning the religion here Nabil?  You obviously cannot use
your aliases anymore!

>By the way, I don't fly Kites, I fly real airplanes.

A'zeem, flying a kite will be a piece of cake then :-)

>>By the way, in your universal premise above "religious attacks are
>>outrageous", you unwittingly assumed that I have been making attacks
>>myself on other people's religion.  This contradicts everything I have
>>been trying to say!

>I think I said "IF" religion was involved because I have not read any article
>written by you, somebody told me that you attack religion.

I hope that Mr. "somebody" would not ask you to jump out of a window
some day!

>>The focus Nabil is NOT on religion per se.  The focus is on the
>>existence of religion in the makeup of power in Lebanon.  The way the
>>system is right now, if you are born to a religion/sect that is
>>decreed to have very little power, then you immediately are at a
>>disadvantage--you will receive second or third class schooling, low
>>standards of living, and be deprived of some vital necessities to the
>>success of a human being.  Briefly, you will be treated as a second or

>I thought that this was the case before 1975 when one group of people were
>priviliged. I don't know how the situation is now. I assume that it has changed
>after the War. Correct me if I am wrong. By the way the last time I went to lebanon 
>was in 1988, have you been there after that?

Unless you share the views of Elie Mourad and think that Aoun is the
prime minister of Lebanon, we have yet to beat the religious hierarchy
that exists in the main seats of the government.  You don't have to go
to Lebanon to know that Nabil!  I have a feeling that you either are
very unaware of the simple facts of politics in Lebanon or there is
something unclear in your statement above.  I sure am favoring the
latter scenario because I can't even imagine a Lebanese today, no
matter how apolitical s/he might be (boy, what are the chances of
that?), that s/he still is not aware of the fact that before and after
1975, we never had a non-Maronite president, a non-Sunni prime
minister, a non-Shi'a head of parliament, or a non-Maronite commander
of the armed forces (of course, with the exception of the 24 hours'
marionette show (coup d'etat) run by General Ahdab).  So, what is it
you mean that things have changed after 75 Nabil?

>Nabil 

-- 
+-----------Khaled Soufi-------------+--------------------------+
|   Department of Computer Science   | email: soufi@cs.uiuc.edu |
| U. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign | phone: (217)244-2274 (W) |
+------------------------------------+--------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon