HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: A4000 Specs? Who knows.
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 19:45:45 GMT

In article <34874@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes:
>In article <1992Sep2.173948.1819@nmsu.edu> dleland@dante.nmsu.edu (LELAND) writes:
>>Get rid of the flicker fixer? Why? So people can complain about interlaced 
>>displays again? 
>
>The A3000's scan converter logic probably adds $70 to the _cost_ of the
>system.  If some future machine were capable of generating such a display
>directly, what's the point of a scan converter?  Not to mention that the
>cost of the converter is directly proportional to the system's palette.  If
>a new system had an 18, 21, or 24 bit palette instead of the current 12-bit
>one, the scan converter costs would go up considerably (eg, most of the
>cost is field and frame store memories, not the Amber chip or PLL).

Funny how much you can say without breaking the rules.  :-)

>>I myself would like to see a streamlined A4000 that saves some money by 
>>having NO ibmpc slots.
>
>You're talking about a couple of dollars in cost there.  And PC slots are
>useful -- where else are you going to put your TBC boards?

So your saying that the Toaster will fit in the new machines?  :-)

>Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests"
>   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh      BIX: hazy
>	"Work like a horse, drink like a fish"	- Psychefunkapus

Skip Sauls
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: IFF database of .advocacy folks
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 14:02:32 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
    <1992Aug27.054653.28730@pdnfido.fidonet.org> <64812@cup.portal.com>
  <u894776.714987094@bruny>

In article <u894776.714987094@bruny>
u894776@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (James McCoull) writes:

| thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes:
| >[...]
| >Go ahead, send your 640x480x24 (921 KiloBytes) pictures to Skip and see how
| >far it gets across the net.
| 
| 	Suggest you learn a little more about JPEG, before you make such
| an outrageous claim!

Gee, was it that difficult to "see" the inherent sarcasm?    :-)

I'm quite aware of the "lossy" compression with JPEG (having incorporated
JPEG displays in one of my programs (on another platform (and using "djpeg"
daily))).

It appears that Skip's original [implied] requirement:

	a small picture (like a driver's license ID photo) which doesn't
	use much disk space and satisfies "what does the person look like?"

is being subjected to creeping-feature-itis (re: full-color portraits).

The already well-defined "faces" format would have served the intended purpose
and could have already been placed in operation.
From: crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Crystal)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: No Figs in the Apple Newton
Date: 30 Aug 92 17:34:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: glia.crystal.715196070
Organization: University of Washington

In <1992Aug30.165338.19126@leland.Stanford.EDU> Evan Torrie <torrie@cs.stanford.edu> writes:

>In article <64783@cup.portal.com> Tom R Krotchko, TomK@cup.portal.com
>writes:

>>This happens all the time. Beretta is the name of what 2 famous product?
>The
>>gun manufacturer sued Chevy a few years back. Do you think many people
>went
>>into the gun dealer and walked out with a Chevy by mistake?
>>
>>Sony sued a restaurant in Baltimore about a year back with the name of
>"Sony"
>>(pronounced "sonny"). The retaurant had that name for a long time, and
>the
>>nickname of the owner was "Sony". I wonder how many people walked in to
>>get some lasagna and came out with a 20 inch portable instead?

>  Did these law actions succeed though?

Considering a car is not a gun and a restaurant doesn't sell/manufacture
electronics, I seriously doubt it (though I could be wrong).

One that I know DID succeed, was a little 2-man software company called
Pacific Micro Software.   Guess who sued them?
	^^^^^^^^^^

Now THAT is getting way too picky and paranoid, but it WAS a "competing" 
business in the same field. :<
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: IFF database of .advocacy folks
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 13:07:34 GMT

In article <haley.715216728@unixg.ubc.ca> haley@unixg.ubc.ca (Ross MacGregor) writes:
>In <1992Aug30.203942.14211@ra.msstate.edu> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>
>>I have the source code for 2 or 3 IFF viewers for MS-DOS and the results on
>>a VGA display are as good as a flicker-fixed Amiga.  Also, the SOX program
>>will convert IFF sounfiles to a SoundBlaster format, so it should be no
>
>Where can I find this SOX program?  Is it available via ftp?


I probably got it from ab20, but it has been quite some time.  I don't know
if I've got all of the original files, but I'll see if I can find them and
put them on an ftp site.

>Thanks.
>-- 
>Ross MacGregor           |  These views are my own and can be considered 
>haley@unixg.ubc.ca       |  absolute truth.

Skip Sauls
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: AmigaWorld LIES about Amiga Links
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:00:33 PST
Organization: TAP, NZAmigaUG

Quoted from <1992Sep3.075530.22445@news.iastate.edu> by barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett):

> actual point.  My point is that the Amiga is no longer the best game machine 
> around, and probably will never be ever again.  So many 386 systems with SVGA

    There's much more to being a good games platform than the number
    of colors available. For example, what's Elite like on a PC? Many
    people even consider the C= 64 version superior to the Amiga
    version, even though the Amiga one is much faster.

    And lets not forget Elite II is being developed for the Amiga.

    You are failing to look at everything that makes up a quality
    game in your insane scramble to bleat about colors. The funniest
    thing though, is that you used to complain about the Amiga being
    a "games machine".

> | Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--
*** John Bickers, TAP, NZAmigaUG.        jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: THIS IS THE PLAN:  IFF Database of .advocacy folks  (!)
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 18:14:41 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>
>Although this is in theory a grand idea...but I guess not all of .advocacy 
>readers/posters are Amigans.  Say, JERRY, what do YOU think?
>

I don't really care.  I haven't been following this thread.  What's the deal
here?  Do people want to look their opponents straight in the eye while they
type their articles?

>
>das9674@usl.edu
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Re: A Windows API for Amiga OS?
Date: Thu,  3 Sep 92 18:30:45 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
  <1992Aug31.001139.13995@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au>
  <1992Aug31.034352.17503@marlin.jcu.edu.au> <mykes.0db5@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG>

>> The Windows API is okay.  Most applications don't need to even know
>> that it is non-preemtive.  But it would be difficult to add a Windows API
>> on top of the Amiga OS as many parts of Windows would be difficult to
>> interface with the Amiga.
>>
>
>If you can run IBem in a window on the Amiga, you can run Windoze on an Amiga
>screen, too.  All Windoze programs would just be part of a single Exec Task.
>Not such a big deal, folks.  Anytime a windoze app calls a windows function,
>just wedge in a Reschedule() call and it is multitasking friendly.  What's
>the big deal?

This approach makes some sense; given that MS is trying to take over the
world, they might even cooperate by giving the source code to CBM.

But, I think it would have to be implemented the way "Seamless Windows" is
done in OS/2.

TomK@cup.portal.com
Tom Krotchko
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: rickan@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Mark Rickan)
Subject: Re: Shakeout in PC Industry Continues 
Organization: Department of Computer Science, McMaster University
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 14:58:17 GMT

In article <1992Aug30.022034.6012@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:

>>This article did not mention Gateway specifically, however another article in
>>the same issue indicated that Gateway placed 70th in the list of top mail
>>order companies (IBM and DEC are the top computer direct-order vendors).

>Wow, really?  I would think that Gateway 2000 would be much larger than that.
>This is especially suspicious since I thought Packard Bell sold second only to
>IBM in *units* sold.  And that wasn't mentioned.  Or was it?

You have to take two things into consideration however: there are some
companies that generate most of their revenue from mail-order (computer
manufacturers are only a small proportion compared to Sears etc.). The
other factor is that this ranking only took mail-order status into
consideration, rather than total units.

>The one good thing (at least) resulting from this is that is the prices rise
>too much (laughable) more vendors would appear and we'd start all over again.
>Isn't competition great?

It appears that the companies contributing most of the R&D aren't especially
enthused about losing a large proportion of their market share. For a number
of years, the computer industry sustained a 12-13% annual growth. This has
since declined to where the market has stabilized and the result is a
battle based on price/performance. In the end, it looks like we'll return
to the two extremes: compatible makers (as opposed to clone manufacturers)
and garage outfits.

Mark

-- 
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
 = Mark Rickan                         ...!uunet!utai!utgpu!maccs!rickan = 
 = DCSS, McMaster University               rickan@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca = 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ahansfor@wpi.wpi.edu (Andrew L. Hansford)
Subject: REAL Information????
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 06:32:56 GMT

>>>>> On 2 Sep 92 20:49:29 GMT, dingebre@imp.sim.es.com (David Ingebretsen) said:


dingebre> The following is included in its enitirety. I didn't change
dingebre> a word.  So... what has anyone to say!?!? Kickstart 3.0?!?
dingebre> New Amiga Graphics Chips?!?  Does this mean that we're
dingebre> finally going to get *REAL* information????

          *************************************************************
dingebre> * Kickstart 3.0 and New Amiga Graphics Chips Support
dingebre> ProWrite 3.3 includes support for new features in Kickstart
dingebre> 3.0, as well as allowing you to open up to 256 color screens
dingebre> on machines with the new Amiga graphics chips.
dingebre> ************************************************************
dingebre> END OF QUOTE

REAL information?  

There is a 3.0 and a new graphics chipset and when they come out
ProWrite 3.3 will support them.  Wheat REAL information do you want?

Is there anyone who believes a new chipset doesn't exist?  and an OS
to support it?  Details here are a bit cloudy not as to those issues
as much as to the configuration of new machines and the marketing
strategy of CBM here in the US.

The questions seem to be:

Can the new chipset be put in the 3000 somehow?

What will the new machine be configuration?
  A4000 with CPU processor
  A4000 with CPU on board
  Other AA machines over the user range
  IDE vs. SCSI
  2.1 vs. 3.0
  DSP or not
  
Marketing?

How does the A600 fit with a A4000 if the 500 and 2000 are
discontinued and a 3000T is $6000?

Will there be a low end console AA with a 020 for very little money?

Power up options like before?

Price of new Machines?

-- Andrew Hansford
   ahansfor@wpi.wpi.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: AmigaWorld LIES about Amiga Links
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 06:17:05 GMT

danaf@aix.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.) writes:
: 1 - That NewTek comment was just that, a comment. From what I've heard from
:    manufacturers, both hardware and software, one thing they LIKE about C= is
:     that they DO "keep in touch". The DevCon suppor from Commodore, and other
:     services, is one of the main reasons they stick with the Amiga. All I
:     meant is that Commodore should avoid the temptation to take a holier-than
:     thou attitude with the new machines. Don't say"here it is,work with it."
:     Instead, try to work YOUR designs around things like the Toaster, as well
:     vice-versa.

That's a little bit of a double-edged sword.  They can't really do
that without saying "Fine, since NewTek decided that they needed more
space and took more space than our specifications allowed, we'll
change our specifications to fit them.  Of course, we're only doing
that because they're making lots of money."

It would make them look bad, in my eyes, to do it for that reason
alone.  They're, so far, the only developer that's done something like
this with a product, as far as I know.  All of the others have access
to a hardware reference manual, I guess.  They DO go out of their way
to keep backwards compatible, and that's the best they can ask.  The
kind of thing you're looking for was done in 2.0:  They placed kludges
in which would allow old, illegal habits to work.

A lot of people feel that was a mistake.


: 2 - the Chip RAM thing is not "this again". Of course I don't understand the 
:     full workings of the Chip RAM / Fast RAM connection, there are probably
:     than a dozen people alive that REALLY do. But it seems to me that a row o

Wow.  :)  I feel good.  :)

:     DIP switches that cuts a RAM bank from one path to the other would not ba
:     major engineering task for the people designing the third in a line of 
:    revolutionary custom chipsets that impressed, at one point or another, jut
:     about every "real computer person" in the world. Furthermore, not to 
:  challenge your superior knowledge, but it seems to me you're oversimplifying
:   the conditions a little. If they're SEPARATE, period, then how can the 512K
:   of A2000 motherboard fast RAM be converted to Chip RAM just by adding a new
:     Agnus chip????

Because they had pseudo-forethought, and, through cutting a few jumper
pads, made it possible.  It doesn't happen "magically".  You can't
just drop in the new agnus, which determines how much memory, at most,
can be handled by the custom chipset for its deterministic access.
And if such "dip switch handling" was possible, it would probably be
tough to implement.  It's not magical, remember that.

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(:"...High adventure that's beyond compare, they are the Gummi Bears.":)
(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block      :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams)
Subject: Re: A4000 Specs? Who knows.
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 03:35:47 GMT

In article <13806@chalmers.se> d0dak@dtek.chalmers.se (David Kinnvall) writes:
>gfm@gnu.ai.mit.edu (George Francis McBay) writes:
>>Amiga 4000 Preliminary:
>> 
>Prices according to the second fax (or paper scan...):
>
>Amiga 4000 mit  40 MB HD, Art.-Nr. 342504, DM 3.420,00.
>Amiga 4000 mit 120 MB HD, Art.-Nr. 342512, DM 3.645,00.

>This should be the prices for the dealers..

What are these prices like?  How do they compare to the A3000 selling price?


-- 
Colin Adams       Honours Student - James Cook University of North Queensland
  "And if I seem a little strange, well that's because I am." - The Smiths 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: Atari Falcon Discount Supermachine  Re: Sydnes is gone?!!
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 06:14:37 GMT

Chris_Millar@lppl.mi.org (Chris Millar) writes:
: The PDS IS being used as a processor upgrade you bonehead!

A PC-emulator is a processor upgrade?  A Mac-emulator is a processor
upgrade?  Most of the other products being sold for that are processor
upgrades?

No.  It's not being used as a processor upgrade.  It's being used as a
general expansion bus, and if you can't see that, it's your problem.
I'm not here to revert your state of architectural retardedness.

And if you don't mind...  would you PLEASE quote.

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :) :)
(: "...and here's Clinton giving the correct spelling of bong-resin..."  :)
(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block         :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: IFF database of .advocacy folks
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Date: 31 Aug 92 06:39:42 PST
 <1992Aug29.210801.13940@pdnfido.fidonet.org> <52689@dime.cs.umass.edu> <1992Aug30.152045.25571@usl.edu>
Organization: TAP, NZAmigaUG

Quoted from <1992Aug30.152045.25571@usl.edu> by das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A):

> Oh, well, if we do this, count me out.   The only Amiga I know of anywhere
> is at an Amiga/Clone dealer in town.  I don't know how cooperative they'd

    Pretty dense. Why not find yourself a program like VPIC on the PC
    that can display IFF files? Or find an IFF to GIF converter that
    runs on the PC... there are a few of them about, that will even do
    HAM...

> Dan Stephenson                                           das9674@usl.edu
--
*** John Bickers, TAP, NZAmigaUG.        jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Date: 29 Aug 92 19:12:39 PST
Organization: TAP, NZAmigaUG

Quoted from <1992Aug28.213334.121@ctr.columbia.edu> by jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel):

> priority when its quantum expires, no?  Is it possible, in AmigaOS, to
> designate a task as "non-preemptible"?  If not, there's no difference in

    Yes it is possible to make a task non-preemtible. One function
    call to get into that state, another one to get out.

> | Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
--
*** John Bickers, TAP, NZAmigaUG.        jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: A4000 Specs? Who knows.
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 05:07:17 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.014642.18659@leland.Stanford.EDU> Evan Torrie <torrie@cs.stanford.edu> writes:
>  How much does a SCSI DMA device, vs an IDE DMA device really add
>to the price of a machine though?  Wasn't there someone who posted
>here about 6 months ago who claimed that it was at most only $50.
>  In a $1500-2000 machine, is this a significant factor?
>  If CD-ROM really takes off, leaving out SCSI may prove to be
>a mistake (unless they start making IDE CD-ROM drives?  Do they?)

   There are IDE CD-ROMs available, but strangely enough they are usually
more expensive than the SCSI variety.  The new systems will also not likely
have a connector for a second IDE device, so that you will be forced to buy
a SCSI card even if cheap IDE CD-ROM drives were available.  Implementing
the second IDE device just isn't as simple as with SCSI -- IDE wasn't 
meant for this kind of device chaining.

   Basically, this forces you to buy a SCSI card no matter what you do.
If you want a tape drive, you must spend $200 or more on a SCSI card.  If
you want a CD-ROM, you must spend $200 or more on a SCSI card.  If you want
to use a second hard drive, you must spend $200 or more on a SCSI card.  If
you want to use the system with A-Max or Emplant and want to use Macintosh SCSI
devices, you must spend $200 or more on a SCSI card.  So with so many people
spending $200 or more on a SCSI card just to use trivial devices such as
these, it would have made much more sense for Commodore to simply boost the
price by $50 and save the majority of potential buyers most of the cost of
a SCSI card.

   Finally, I cannot say why right now, but it is a total fallacy that using
IDE is lowering the list prices of the new systems.  I have solid reasons for
believeing that the initial list prices on the new systems will be HIGHER now
than if SCSI had been used.  Stay tuned for my reasons. 

>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Embrace rationalism, reject superstition      Break away from the past
>Evan Torrie             Stanford University     torrie@cs.stanford.edu

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: let's help him ( about -MB- )
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:56:01 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.175355.8206@cgrg.ohio-state.edu> derek@cgrg.ohio-state.edu (Dariusz Bolski) writes:
>I just thought that it would do you, folks, a service.
>
>-MB- is selling his Amiga. Let's help him.

   Before you get too excited, let my tell you that I will still have access
to an A3000.  I am selling the A500 so that I can get into digital packet
radio.  I have been wanting to get back into HAM radio, as I haven't had time
to keep my Morse code skills up since high school.  I also want to get into
the new computer-related aspecs of HAM radio, which require an expensive
digital transiever and a device called a TNC.

>Dariusz Bolski     Ohio Supercomputer Center, IBM POWER Visualization System
>Systems Programmer Ohio State University , Columbus U.S.
>                   The Advanced Computing Center For The Arts And Design
>e-mail: derek@cgrg.ohio-state.edu  derek@osc.edu

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
     "Beware the ides of September..."