HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Kohen Joke
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 07:28:57 GMT

There's another story about a Yisrael who is in a town where no one
knows him one day, and when the Gabbai asks him what he is, he says
"Cohen" figuring just once he'll get the first aliya.  "Could you
please step outside?" says the Gabbai, "There's a simcha this morning
and we need to give all the aliyot to Yisraels."
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@         "WARENS statement in his signature express a Nazi idea."
/ nysernet.org 			    Gideon Ehrlich
From: rice@enterprise.Berkeley.EDU (Daniel S. Rice)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Telnet BBS in Israel?
Date: 14 Dec 1992 07:19:42 GMT
Organization: Gizmonic Institute
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: enterprise.berkeley.edu

	Some time ago, someone announced the availability of some
sort of public information system on one of the Israeli campuses.
("could you be more vague?")  I recall telnetting to it, and finding
it to be a sort of BBS, with want ads and other stuff like that.
There appeared to be plans to put some other, interesting things
on-line.  I then forgot about it for a long time, and now I am
curious again.  Does anyone know what I am talking about who can
remind me how to access this system?  Any clues would be appreciated.

						Dan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism
From: jacobw@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jacob Solomon Weinstein)
Subject: Re: Why I became an Athiest (was: frustrations with christianity)
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:49:31 GMT

Robert Johnson writes:
>>
>>I know lots of Jews, MR. Saal. I was born Jewish. You, sir, are no Jew,
>>only a close minded bigot. Unless you care to argue that all Jews are such. 
>>This I will also argue against.
>>
>>To Mr. Saal: I  Feel very, very sorry for you. Please don't have 
>>children; If you are the one teaching them, I fear for their 
>>well being. Please lock yourself up somewhere, and throw away the key.
>>You are a very scary, pathetic person.
To which David E. Isaacs responds:
>I can understand why your afraid of Sam.  People are often afraid 
>of what they can't or don't want to understand.  I wonder what it is
>about people who believe in something, that makes those who believe in 
>nothing so afraid.
>Boo .....
>Now go back to were you came from!

Good gosh! Can't one disagree with somebody, even
on such a sensitive issue, without resorting to name-calling? Please,
Messrs. Johnson and Isaacs, and anybody else who has flamed when they
should have persuaded; let's try to remain civil. 

If there is God, we ought to treat our fellow man with the
respect that virtually every religion tells us He commands. And, if
there is no God, then our fellow human beings are all we've got, and we
ought to treat them with the respect we would hope they'd show us.

Sorry to preach, but I fear for our species if we can't discuss such
important things in a mature fashion.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Jewish Missions?? was : Re: Intolerance (was SCJ HAS BEEN DECONTAMINATED!
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 05:30:00 GMT

In article <dfs.724697605@noonian> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:
>The only contact I've had with Jewish "missionaries" is the Lubavitch
>movement which tries to make Jews more observant.  As far as I know, they
>do this only with Jews, and would never approach a non-Jew for conversion.
>
>A funny thing happened... I was visiting New York about 5 years ago, and
>my friend and I were approached by a Lubavitcher who wanted to give us some
>literature.  

I got shanghaied by the Lubavitch two-three years ago in New York.  They
had set up a "mitzvah van" on the street in the Village, approached me as
I walked by, got me to go into the van and put on t'fillin, say the prayer,
and ushered me back out.  They were only stopping Jews, as far as I could
tell -- I guess I'm fairly obvious.  I couldn't help but be amused by the
assembly line nature of the process.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Autopsy - Kahane and Rosenbaum
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:36:31 GMT

In article <3023@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:

# In <1992Dec9.235806.9892@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
 
# >	It was the correct paragraph.  Look real closely this time.  It
# >has something in it that you denied.

# OK, I give up.  Clearly I am a closed-minded person whose hatred for
# ... blinds him to the obvious.  Could you tell me now?

	Well, I no longer have the original so I cannot specifically point
it out, but it had to do with intermarriage in Israel.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: The Future Of Israel
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 01:09:21 GMT

This is a Jewish list.  Christian evangelicism disguised as misnamed
Messianic Judaism is not welcome here.
-- 
Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Shabbat question
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 05:56:47 GMT

In <1992Dec11.164314.11148@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld) writes:

>According to most poskim, flames can be lowered only to keep food
>from burning.  So on Yom Tov, make sure to lower the flame *before*
>you take the pot off.  Raising the flame can be done regardless.

There is a gadget that I found in a hardware store in Israel right
before Sukkot which attaches to the knob of the stove, and shuts off
the gas after a settable period.  Since one adjusts it before lighting
the flame (from another flame, of course), the flame is extinguished
without violating Yom Tov.

Unfortunately I didn't have enough time to figure out how to install
it before Sukkot.

My neighbors have one which sits in the gas line of the stove, so that
all burners are extinguished at once.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@         "WARENS statement in his signature express a Nazi idea."
/ nysernet.org 			    Gideon Ehrlich
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: <GOLDBERG@FORDMULC.BITNET>
Subject:  cookbooks
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <<GOLDBERG@FORDMULC.BITNET>>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:16:16 GMT


        My wife has asked me to make a request of all you readers -
she is interested in investing in a Shabat cookbook with ONLY
COLD foods.  Judging by some of the recent recipe requests, it seems
that there may be some people who are familiar with the food domain.

        Thanks much in advance for your suggestions.

                        Regards,
                        Neal
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879)
Subject: Re: Recipes in general
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 14:48:58 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

From article <9212140227.AA22358@host0.COLBY.EDU>, by jjsulliv@COLBY.EDU (Nice Young Lady(tm)):
> 
> I'm compiling, as I may have mentioned,a personal cookbook.  Anyone got
> any traditional Hannukah/Rosh Hashanah or whatever recipes they would be
> willing to share?

B'nai B'rith Women chapters all across the country have published cookbooks
as fundraising projects.  Hadassah chapters have done the same.  ORT has
done it, and so have many synagogue sisterhoods (and perhaps, peoplehoods,
since times are changing).  I've got quite a pile of these, and if you
are looking for good recipes, they are a wonderful source!

> Anyone got a recipe for "Haman Pockets"?  (Passover treat I heard about)

Wrong holiday, off by one.  Try Purim, and look them up under the name
Hamentaschen.  I've seen many varieties, made with dough that varied from
fairly low-rising cookie dough, to dough that was in the "sweet roll"
category -- akin to the dough used for the polish treat known as a
kolach.  The rule that makes it a Hamentaschen is that you put a dollop
of something sweet in the middle of a circle of dough, then fold up the
corners to make a tri-cornered hat shape out of it.  Poppy seed filling
is traditional, but any other sweet filling will do in a pinch.

If you want Hannukah traditions, just fry it in oil, anything fried in
oil has symbolic significance.  French fries (home made), sweet-and-sour
chicken (battered, deep fried chicken lumps, served with a sweet-and-sour
sauce with stir fried vegitables over rice), deep fried jelly doughnuts,
anything, from anywhere in the world, that involves frying in oil will
do.  But there is one standout from the Eastern European post Colombian
tradition -- potato pancakes, or latkes (recall that the potato is from
South America, and then wonder what Ashkenazi Jews ate for Hannukah
before in pre Colombian times).
					Doug Jones
					jones@cs.uiowa.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Subject: Re: What does Hanukkah commemorate?
Summary: Did the miracle of the oil even happen?
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:08:12 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.231011.16650@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:

			......................

>Iy the year 166 bce the Greeks/Syrians were rulers in Jerusalem and
>had long since desecrated the Temple, and forced many Jews to follow
>goyishe practices.  Mattathias (the priest) assembled an army, his
>sons as leaders, and fought off the Greeks/Syrian troops of
>Antiochus, and took back the Temple and began to restore it to its
>proper service.

>So on one level, Chanukah celebrates the rededication of the Temple.

>On another level, Chanukah celebrates the military victory.  But our
>holidays tend not to celebrate military victories.

			......................

>[  I've asked before but don't know:   Just how long does it take to
>   extract olive oil in kislev in Jerusalem?  Is 8 days a reasonable
>   amount of time?  ]

Olives are not normally harvested at this time.  The oil would have had
to have been produced earlier, and the Torah prohibits crude pressing,
but requires that the oil be "beaten for the light."

However, the Book of Maccabbees does give the reason for the eight days.
Because of the defilation of the Temple, Sukkoth, which was a major
festival for them, one of the three pilgimage festivals, was not
celebrated.  

>So today we teach our children about the miracle and play down the
>military aspects of the war.

The miracle of the oil does not even appear in the Talmud, but in
the Midrash.  It apparently was not used until several centuries
after the fact.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Holocaust jokes (was Re: To all Jews)
Organization: Jews for Melkor
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 02:36:54 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.022253.1609@netcom.com> horen@netcom.com (Jonathan B. Horen -- [408] 736-3923) writes:
>Then you asked Madi for, maybe, a Holocaust joke. Well, here's something
>close...

Well, if we're starting on holocaust jokes, here's a venerable
one. (It's technically not a holocaust joke, as it dates to the
early '30s, but...)

Adolf Hitler visits a fortune-teller. She gazes into the crystal
ball, and says, "Now this is very interesting, Herr Hitler! It
seems you will die on a Jewish Holiday!"

Hitler says, "Really? Which holiday will it be?"

The fortune-teller says, "You misunderstand me. Whatever day you
die, will be a Jewish holiday!"
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"SILENCE = QUIET"
                --Girljock Magazine
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879)
Subject: Re: HALVAH Recipies Please
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:32:42 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

From article <1992Dec14.144139.21974@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>,
by saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal):
> 
> For those of you with PostScript printers (or viewers), ...
For those without PostScript, I've extracted the text from Sam's recipe:

Halvah

  1 cup sesame seeds
  2 Tbsp honey
  1 tsp vanilla (optional)
  1 Tbsp cocoa or carob powder (optional)

Grind sesame seeds past meal stage into a nut butter.
Scrape out into a bowl and dribble in the honey.
Mix well until you get one sticky mass.
For a ``chocolate'' halvah, mix in cocoa (or carob) powder don't over-mix;
allow it to become marbled.
For more vanilla flavor, add 1 teaspoon of vanilla with the honey.
Line a small (about 4 inches) box with waxed paper and press in the mixture.
Put in the refrigerator to chill for an hour or so,
take out, and slice into cubes.

Yield: about 1 dozen 1 inch cubes

Hints/Suggestions: There is no reason you couldn't use Tahini instead of
grinding the sesame seeds into a butter.  However, you'll have to drain
some of the oil from the tahini, or else the halvah won't solidify well.
You could probably let the tahini separate, and then use some of the solid
part, and add a little oil.  The original recipe suggested using unhulled
sesame seeds.  I made it that way, and wasn't very satisfied with the
results.  Using hulled seeds will result in a slightly less sesame tasting,
and lighter colored halvah.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
From: srm@world.std.com (Stevens R Miller)
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 04:40:16 GMT

jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:

>In article <BypLs6.91E@world.std.com> srm@world.std.com (Stevens R Miller) writes:
>>jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:

>My main agenda is to see to it that citizens and decent people are
>protected by the law of the land.

Again, we have a common goal.  But, I also want indecent people protected
by that law, since decency isn't a parameter of the function of legal
protections.  And, law  requires that jury verdicts be regarded as valid,
if not accurate.  You will accuse me of being a lawyer, for making that
distinction.  I plead guilty.

>>...I don't claim to know what the truth
>>was on the night Rosenbaum died.  You are the only one who has done
>>that.

>No, the jury has, as well.

Jake, please read this:  In a criminal trial the jury swears to acquit
if they don't know what the truth of a case is.  That's absolutely
fundamental to our law.  If the jury can't find guilt, it is not a
requirement to acquittal that they find facts.  The Nelson jury did
not find guilt.  That's all.  They didn't find innocence.  They
didn't convict (as you have said) the NYPD.  They simply did not
find guilt.  I know you don't like that system.  But don't go out
of your way to misunderstand it; you're too bright for that.

>>>My rules tell me to tell the truth.
>>
>>I salute you for living by a higher standard than our law requires.

>Next you're going to tell me that I'm stupid for paying taxes, too.

I have not said that.

>>>Did Nelson's lawyer advise his client [to deny a] confession?   
>>
>>I don't know...

>Say again?  The law doesn't require one to tell the truth?  What's all
>this stuff about "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the
>truth"? 

It's an oath in court, where a judge, jury and defense lawyer are
present to ensure it's an uncoerced subscription.  An alleged confession
obtained in a police station (have you ever even been in one?) at
3am with no referee of fairness present is hardly comparable.  Yes,
it could have been made.  But as you are fond of pointing out, it
COULD have been something else, and so should be regarded as such 
(that was your thinking about Nelson's knife, presence, alleged
confession, red shirt, black skin and flight from police, wasn't
it?).
-- 
Stevens R. Miller J.D.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:33:11 GMT

faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin) writes:

> You're analogy to the U.S. citizenship process brings up the old question,
> which is really at the heart of the matter. Judaism has a dual nature: it is
> both a "nation" and a "religion".

I don't know if Bnei Yisrael are ever called a religion in TaNaKh.
They are, however, repeatedly referred to as a nation.  (This, of
course, does not validate or invalidate a particular approach.)

It is far easier and more objective to define membership in this way.
Once someone is defined as a Jew, that person is then encouraged to
observe the law.  If we are to be precisely defined by our beliefs,
or even by our practice, I suspect that at most one person could
ever be defined as a Jew.

> Could there be different procedures for
> becoming one who believe in the religion, as opposed to a member of the
> nation?

Yes.  A good example is Christianity, which generally defines its
adherents by their belief, unlike Judaism.  I have a problem with
this.  When doubts surface in one's mind, is one no longer a
Christian?  One's life is a continuum.  Today Chris is 8% Christian.
Yesterday he/she was 73%, only because the office was so busy Chris
had no time to doubt.  Or would that make him/her 0%, since there was
no time to be an affirmative Christian?

Perhaps it's a cop-out for Jews, but it is far clearer.

On re-reading your question, I see you may be asking something
different from what I first thought.  A good example of this second
scenario may be the distinction between members of the Jewish people
and members of the Bnei Noach groups that have been recently discussed
in another thread.  They are, in a sense, believers in Judaism.
They believe in the Torah, as we do.  They also recognize that they
are not Jews, and therefore are under no obligation to observe all
the extra laws G-d has heaped upon us.  We have essentially the
same belief.  But in contrast to the Bnei Noach, we are Jews and
are therefore expected to observe a different set of laws.

> For example, there are those who do not believe in the religion who
> remain members of the nation: Atheists born of a jewish mother are considered
> Jewish. There are obviously those who believe in the religion who are not
> viewed by some as part of the nation. So it may be this distinction that
> dictates the drawing line.

Correct.  Jewsishness is membership in a nation of people that, while
not defined by a charcteristic belief, are legally required to accept
it and practice accordingly.  Those who fail to practice remain
members (Jews), though they are not acting within the law.  Those
who observe the laws but are not members of the nation are non-Jews.
Likewise, a Frenchman may abstain from murder, but that doesn't
make him an American, just because his restraint is consistent
with U.S. law.

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Kahane's philosophy
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 07:04:48 GMT

In <1992Dec9.144821.16854@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

>	Let me just add that while "They Must Go" does talk about
>transfer, it in no way calls for "punishing an entire race" it does
>not call for "an entire ethinc group to be expelled", and it does not
>state "that Israel should be 'Arabrein'".

Yes, andy is incorrect. It is necessary to use accurate information to
criticize one's opponents.

Arabs are not to be "punished", but what is to be done to them is to
be decided by Jews, taking their own interest into account first
(although the author insists that this would benifit the Arabs as
well).  Did we not object when decisions were made for us in the
Diaspora?

And they are not to be "expelled" if they agree to surrender
civil rights including the right to vote.  If another country did this
to Jews, would we not protest?
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@         "WARENS statement in his signature express a Nazi idea."
/ nysernet.org 			    Gideon Ehrlich
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Gerev
Date: 13 Dec 1992 13:49:39 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/trn/lib/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu

As near as I can tell from five minutes of research, gerev
meaning "sock" is masculine and derives from the Arabic
jawrab.

Jack F. Love
From: mkrawitz@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Marc Krawitz)
Subject: Re: land for peace----- NOT!!!!!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Reply-To: mkrawitz@ics.uci.edu (Marc Krawitz)
Organization: Univ. of Calif., Irvine, Info. & Computer Sci. Dept.
Date: 19 Dec 92 22:38:28 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.154620.54962@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> mlsa@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu
(MICHAEL LAUREN SHERMAN) writes:

>There has been much talk of land for peace, that the Jews should for some
>reason be forced to part with the only commmodity they have.  This is
>ridiculous.  Come on.  Look at a fucking map, color the arab areas red and the
>Israeli area blue.  Not much blue is there, Lot of red isn't there, can't the
>palestinians find a wee bit of red area to call their own.  While we are at
>it, color the oil producing areas black, coincides with a lot of the red
>doesn't it, none of the blue getting darker is it?  Don't give the Arab's
>another fucking acre.  Right now it seems that the Israelis are the most
>powerful in the area, so peace for the arabs and israelis is a mutually
>advantageous situation.  Everytime the state of israel made land gains it has
>been after a blatant arab agression.  I say fuck the arabs, they don't deserve
>concessions, every time you deal with the arab leadership (I don't mean the
>average arab off the street) they turn around and spit in your face.  SEE PAST
>AGRESSION.  I am sorry for being rude but some damn palestinian kid was just
>talking about how jews and israel were the great satan and it really began to
>bother me, so I had to get it off my chest.  But in all seriousness, trade
>peace for peace, you stop bombing us, we'll stop bombing you, but as long as
>the arabs continue to perpertrate the agression on us, I see no reason why we
>should not fight back.

I believe that Jews and Arabs must respect and understand one another before
a lasting peace can be created in the Middle East.  Instead of showing that
understanding, Michael has written an article which is rude and insensitive
towards the Arab people.  Such an article can only make the situation worse,
and I certainly hope that only a very small minority of Jews share Michael's
views.

Marc Krawitz
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish