HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kcy@meaddata.com (Cheong Yu)
Subject: Re: regarding tennis tips
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:57:32 GMT
Reply-To: kcy@meaddata.com

In article <1992Dec11.072441.16077@eng.umd.edu>, clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin) writes:
|> 
|> In article <1992Dec10.221223.23832@midway.uchicago.edu>, j-nolan@uchicago.edu (John Nolan) writes:
|> >
|>  [ stuff deleted ]
|> >
|> >I have another tip.  Try time the serve by doing a litle jump just before
|> >your opponent makes contact. Once you get his motion down, you should have
|> >your weight going slightly forward, and you should be balanced equally on
|> >the balls of both your feet, just as he hits his serve.  From this position
|> >you can go in either direction and can hit a pretty sharp return with a 
|> >shorther backswing.
|> 
|>     I just mentioned this in a previous post.   Why does this work?
|> Why not be at the balls of your feet to begin with?  It almost seems
|> to throw another bit of timing to the return.   I see pros do it all
|> the time, but I still can't fathom why.
|> 

An instructor that I had, recommends swaying from side-to-side
rhythmically as the server is preparing to serve (that part may be
nothing more than a ritual), and concentrating by keeping your eyes on
the ball throughout his service motion.  Then at the moment of impact,
you jump up and go into the split-step.  My instructor didn't explain
all the reasoning behind it, but it is suppose to help you with the
timing.  I read or heard from somewhere that the split-step allows you
to move quickly in any direction, especially when you are volleying.
When you're falling from your slight hop, you are putting almost none
of your body weight on your feet (essentially you are in a weightless
free-fall), so you can be pivot more quickly and explode in the
direction of the ball.  Kind of makes sense to me....

Here's a different tip I read or heard somewhere: always bounce the
ball up and down before you serve.  It's suppose to help you to
concentrate on the up and down motion of the service toss, instead of
the horizontal motion of the rally that just completed.  (And I always
thought bouncing the ball was a stall tactic to catch my breath. :-)

|> --
|> Charles Lin
|> clin@eng.umd.edu
|> 

-- 
Cheong Yu             |                        |        (513) 865-7048
Mead Data Central     |                        |   Fax: (513) 865-1755
P.O. Box 933          |                        |      kcy@meaddata.com
Dayton, Ohio  45401   |                        |    uunet!meaddata!kcy
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin)
Subject: Re: Position On The Tennis Court
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 02:21:02 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Maryversity von Uniland, College Park
Originator: clin@bandwidth.eng.umd.edu


In article <1812@idacrd.UUCP>, babyface@idacrd.UUCP (Lewis E. Jones) writes:
>Position yourself on the Tennis Court is very important. 
>Knowing where your opponent shot will land before hand. 
>This is like chess, knowing were to move and when to move.
>This depends on placement of your shots into your opponent
>court. Mixing up shots as well as placement creates position
>on the court.
>

   This is nice advice, but one that doesn't easily translate to the
court.   Even if I know where my opponent is hitting, if I don't get
there, it doesn't matter.   I can try to hit shots that will make his/her
choice of shots more predicatable.   You might want to say that you
should always stand in the middle of the court.   Or that you should
stand in such a way as to divide the court more or less in half
if you drew a line from you to your opponent.  Or that if you get
a lob over someone's head, you ought to come in.   Or that you
should alternate topspins and slices in hopes that differing height
balls will disturb your opponent.

   Or that you should drop shot when your opponent is deep behind the
baseline, or lob after the first volley if your opponent has closed in
tight, or aim to the backhand on the second serve if your opponent's
backhand is weak.   Being more specific as to how you should carry
out your advice is probably more useful to a player.

--
Charles Lin
clin@eng.umd.edu
From: arijeet@lorelei.ece.drexel.edu (Arijit Das)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Grand Slam cup - choice of surface
Date: 14 Dec 92 00:33:42 GMT
Organization: Drexel University, Philadelphia PA

After watching Kulti play MacEnroe I felt that the choice of surface 
for the Grand slam cup cup was not fair. For a clay court player doing well
on carpet in not expected. Also I don't know if there is any surface that
is fair to players from clay, grass, and carpet.
---
arijit
 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: shun@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (shun.cheung)
Subject: Gorman remains as US Davis Cup captain
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:51:21 GMT

The USTA announced that Tom Gorman will again be the US Davis Cup
team captain in 1993. IMO, that is a good decision. Gorman has been
doing a very good job in the past few years. While he has a lot of
high-ranked players to choose from, some of those are not exactly
good Davis Cup players and there are a lot of expectations on him.
Given his on-court behavior in the past, McEnroe would be a risky
choice at this point.

The US will begin to defend its title in March, 1993 on the grass
court at Kooyong in Australia. That is a very tough first round tie
since the US doesn't have very many good grass court players, despite
the fact that Agassi won Wimbledon last year. Moreover, it'll be
hard to convince the top players to travel "down under" to play
on grass in the middle of the spring hard/clay season.
-- 
-- Shun Cheung,    electronic: shun.cheung@att.com    voice: (908) 615-5135
     AT&T, 480 Red Hill Road, Middletown, NJ,  07748  USA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: mliu@garden.csc.calpoly.edu (Mei-Ling L. Liu)
Subject: Some pros are playing in Australia
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 16:03:25 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, UCSB
From: shun@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (shun.cheung)
Subject: Re: ESPN tennis
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 23:05:40 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.222419.22768@rat.csc.calpoly.edu> mliu@garden.csc.calpoly.edu (Mei-Ling L. Liu) writes:
>In article <1992Dec13.214720.20477@actrix.gen.nz> Kent.Nelson@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:
>>I've just started watching ESPN, in particular the tennis. Doesn't Mary Carillo
>>murmuring during points bug people? She whispers in this really low voice, and
>>can't understand a word she says. It's really irritating, and its when I go to
>>turn the volume up that the crowd cheers really loudly.

Is this above article posted from New Zealand? If so, looks like ESPN
has really gone international. This is good news. While I have some
reservations about Carillo and Drysdale, ESPN certainly has the best
team of commentators.

>The whispering is inaudible and has been pointed out by a sportswriter
>in the newspaper U.S.A. Today.  I myself have just written to ESPN
>to thank them for their generous televising of the Grand Slam
>Cup, and then complain about this whispering business.

The whispering problem is the result of their recent sitting arrangement.
Drysdale and Stolle are up in the booth so that they can speak normally.
Carillo, however, is now sitting at court side to cover what is going on
from close range. There are some advantages of this arrangement. For
example, during their Davis Cup coverage, Carillo was able to find out
what was going on with the coaches and the other players. However,
during points, she has to whisper or she would bother the people around
her or even the players. She does raise her voice between points. I too
find her whispering annoying though.
-- 
-- Shun Cheung,    electronic: shun.cheung@att.com    voice: (908) 615-5135
     HR 1A-304, AT&T Bell Labs, 480 Red Hill Road, Middletown, NJ, 07748 USA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: solodov@monterey1.cs.wisc.edu (Mikhail V. Solodov)
Subject: Re: ESPN tennis
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:13:41 GMT

>In article <1992Dec13.214720.20477@actrix.gen.nz> Kent.Nelson@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:
>>I've just started watching ESPN, in particular the tennis. Doesn't Mary Carillo
>>murmuring during points bug people? She whispers in this really low voice, and
>>can't understand a word she says. It's really irritating, and its when I go to
>>turn the volume up that the crowd cheers really loudly.
>>Bugs the shit out of me.
>
    If you can't understand what Mary Carillo is saying,
you don't loose much. This lady has all kind of troubles
putting a couple of words together. Recently, while talking
about the McEnroe - Davis Cup captain controversy she managed
to use the phrase "...you know..." about 10 times in 2 minutes.
Who hired her ?!
She is in no way qualified for the job, as opposed to some
other players - John and especially Chris, for example.
Michael.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: marmoset@mondo.engin.umich.edu (Dave Walker)
Subject: Re: ESPN tennis
Organization: U of Michigan Computer Aided Engineering Network
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:06:01 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.153029.1298@research.nj.nec.com> tim@research.nj.nec.com (Tim Van Der Avoird) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.025202.5503@eng.umd.edu> clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin) writes:
>
>Do you really think that people in Sweden pronounce the name "Stefan
>Edberg" the way Americans do...? Stop dreaming... And what about the
>way the people at ESPN pronounce "Michael Stich"...?!
>

i.e. never the same twice in a row. :-)  Really, it was funny seeing
how many ways, between the three different announcers, they could
mangle it.  And I won't even begin to mention the local TV
sportscasters...

---
Dave Walker, Scummy Sticky Stuff, Inc.                                 
marmoset@mondo.engin.umich.edu            "cheddar and cheez is for meez"  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: Byron Rakitzis <byron@netapp.com>
Subject: Re: Tennis Players' Education (Was: ESPN tennis)
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:57:17 GMT

In article <5375@calmasd.Prime.COM> mas@calmasd.Prime.COM (Marisa SorBello) writes:
>Nothing prevents these people from going back to school after
>retiring, if they are so inclined.

Far be it from me to tell tennis players how to run their lives, but if
I thought I were, say, the Future Mr. Graf (as someone here signs off)
I would want to make darn sure that my kids could make a decent living
from tennis before committing them at age 13 or so. 

I don't really know how much of a problem this is in tennis, actually.
Much has been made in the press about other sports like basketball and
football where the recruiting from college->pro is very selective, and
where academic standards for college athletes are not very high.
From: kcy@meaddata.com (Cheong Yu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Re: grunting rule
Date: 14 Dec 1992 17:30:51 GMT
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Reply-To: kcy@meaddata.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: monster.meaddata.com

In article <1992Dec14.134151.27392@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, marmoset@mondo.engin.umich.edu (Dave Walker) writes:
|> In article <13DEC92.01342377@vax.clarku.edu> htilney@vax.clarku.edu writes:
|> >There have been plenty of players before Seles who have grunted during
|> >matches. I wonder why it's become a bigger concern now.
|> >
|> 
|> Going along these lines, has anyone else noticed how much noise
|> McEnroe is making on the court these days?  I wonder if there's
|> a double-standard at work here.
|> 
|> | Dave Walker, Detroit Art Services (DAS)                                |

I doubt few people, if any, grunts as loud as Seles or has the long
two-syllable grunt that Seles has, which may make it even more
distracting.  However, since Seles hits every shot hard, the grunt
doesn't really disguise her shots.

On the men's side, I think nobody complains about McEnroe's grunts
because they can still beat him despite the distractions.  Also, I
remeber Lendl complaining about Agassi's grunts back when Agassi was
entering the tennis scene in '88 or '89.

-- 
Cheong Yu             |                        |        (513) 865-7048
Mead Data Central     |                        |   Fax: (513) 865-1755
P.O. Box 933          |                        |      kcy@meaddata.com
Dayton, Ohio  45401   |                        |    uunet!meaddata!kcy
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: ESPN tennis
From: Kent.Nelson@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 21:47:20 GMT
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange

I've just started watching ESPN, in particular the tennis. Doesn't Mary Carillo
murmuring during points bug people? She whispers in this really low voice, and
can't understand a word she says. It's really irritating, and its when I go to
turn the volume up that the crowd cheers really loudly.
Bugs the shit out of me.
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: solodov@monterey1.cs.wisc.edu (Mikhail V. Solodov)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Re: Monica's Prime??
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:47:21 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.

In article <1992Dec17.033811.7771@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> shun@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (shun.cheung) writes:
>
>>What I don't like in Steffi's game particularly is that constant
>>running around the ball to hit the forehand and using slice every
>>time she doesn't have the time to run around. Unnatural, against
>>all the inner rules of the game, and ... dosn't look pretty ( to me,
>>what about you ?).
>
>Have you ever watched the Martina-Graf Wimbledon finals from 1988
>and 1989, or the Sabatini-Graf Wimbledon semi this year? Graf has
>demonstrated that she has a very good top-spin backhand as well as
>a good (but not great) net game. IMO, Graf's backhand is one of
>the most under-rated shots. Her slice is among the best and is very
>effective against baseliners, especially those with two-handed backhand
>such as Seles, Sanchez, Mary Joe, etc. What's wrong with using
>the slice if it works? Graf runs around excessively mainly on slower
>surfaces. Courier also has a tendency to run around when he has the
>time to do so, and he is #1 in the world. Whether that is "pretty"
>or not is very subjective. Seles' two-handed forehand is a lot more
>unorthodox and against the inner rules of the game, but it works for her,
>at least for now.
>
>-- Shun Cheung,    electronic: shun.cheung@att.com    voice: (908) 615-5135

    Of course, Graf knows ,in principle, how to hit top-spin backhand.
However, 90% (!) of her shots from this side are slices. There is nothing
wrong with  using slice occasionally, but to build your game on this basis
is, IMO, lousy. And this is exactly my point. Just look at tne men.
There are more great/good tennis players among them at this time, right ?
Is there anyone among them (in top ,say, 20) who didn't master such basics
as top-spin back/fore-hand ? The last of the mohicans was, I believe,
Yannic Noah who also played backhand slice most of the time.
    Your comparison with Courier doesn't work, for he plays 90% backhand
topspin when he has to, and only 10% slice or forehand from the backhand
conner.
    Seles's shots aren't traditional (and many of John's, for that matter).
This is not exactly what they usually teach in tennis classes. However,
their motion , movement , choice of shots does look natural and beautiful -
to me that is. but the sense of what is or isn't pretty is subjective,
as you've mentioned. I agree with that.
Michael.
From: gaf5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Gail A. Fullman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Re: Monica's Prime??
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:55:28 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University


>>   Even when Graf dominated the game she had too many weak spots ,
>>in my opinion , anyway. Her backhand  and her passing shots (from
>>both sides) deserve to be ranked #50 or so. Of course, she has
>>outstanding forehand, but when the player runs around to play forehand
>>all the time ,it (again, in my opinion) just ruins the harmony of tennis.
>>This should backfire, and I am glad it did.
>
>In my opinion, Monica has more weak spots than Steffi has.  Monica's problems
>were glaringly obvious during the Wimbledon final: the drop shots, the
>angled shots that pull her wide, the slices to her forehand, the shots that
>force her to hit one-handed, all the limitations of two-handed hitting.  Monica
>grew up hitting two-handed, & although she's been trying one-handed shots more
>often, they don't have much punch to them.  With the young players coming up
>hitting harder & harder these days, Monica may be forced more & more to hit
>one-handed, & this could eventually backfire.  Right now, even though the
>players may know what to do against Monica, not many can do it often enough, if
>at all, to beat her (except for Graf & sometimes Navratilova).  But that was
>also the case with Graf in '87-'90: the weaknesses (eg backhand passing shots)
>were always there, but few at that time could exploit them.
>Natasha
>
Imagine being on the receiving end of a Steffi forehand or a a Monica
two-handed shot!  I'd run for cover.

You're right; there's a big difference in knowing what to do and doing it.
When Steffi was so dominant, Martina would say she knows how to beat her, what
to do to beat her, but doing it was a different story.

I'm also a novice collage wrestling fan.  Someone once said that the
difference between a good wrestler and a great wrestler was:  a good wrestler,
you knew what was coming and had a chance to counter it; a great wrestler, you
knew what was coming but didn't have a prayer of doing anything about it.
-- 

------------------------
|   Gail A. Fullman    |
|   Manager - ADMO     |
|   Ext. 83113         |
------------------------
From: mantell@pi.mathlab.sunysb.edu (Abraham S. Mantell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Test...
Date: 21 Dec 92 03:56:31 GMT
Organization: SUNY at Stony Brook, Dept. of Math

This is a test...please ignore...
From: dpc2@po.CWRU.Edu (David P. Caldwell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Re: BACKSPIN & SLICE
Date: 18 Dec 1992 16:33:57 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: dpc2@po.CWRU.Edu (David P. Caldwell)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, jpt@telecaster.think.com (James P. Taylor) says:

>Something that I have found over the years playing under bad wind
>conditions is that you can get more depth hitting into the wind with
>underspin.  Hit topspin with the wind and underspin into the wind.
>
>jim taylor Thinking Machines Corp  Cambridge MA 

     Hmmm...This is interesting.  I have always done the opposite; let me
try to explain why.  When there is a strong wind which is not a
crosswind...

     If I am hitting *with* the wind, my topspin shots tend to be long.  My
topspin is rather heavy, and so the stroke itself which I hit assumes that
the spin applied will bring the ball down.  When hitting with the wind,
this calibration is wrong; the ball doesn't come down fast enough and
sails.  The major problem with my underspin under normal conditions is that
it floats and sits; it is not "penetrating."  When hitting with the wind,
this problem is solved.  Therefore, I advocate (for me anyway) hitting
underspin with the wind.

     If hitting *against* the wind, the problem with my underspin is
exacerbated.  The ball will typically land short, hanging in the air for an
exaggerated period because of the wind and giving sitters for my opponent
to whack for winners or tough approaches.  My topspin, on the other hand, I
can whack with abandon, confident that the wind-exaggerated spin will bring
the ball down.

     I'm no expert in physics, but I guess I would say this -- the effects
of spin upon the flight of the ball are exaggerated when hitting into the
wind, but reduced when hitting with the wind.  This adjustment is in
addition to the obvious effect of tending to hit deeper with the wind and
shorter against.

     I love it when I am hitting with the wind and my opponent gives me
underspin.  This virtually ensures that the ball will have virtually no
forward velocity after the bounce, enabling me to step into the court and
slug the high sitter.  Of course, if I had a volley, I would just chip and
come in :)...Where was I?  Uh, I guess that's it.

...Babbitt
-- 
David Caldwell (Babbitt on IRC)  E-mail:  CALDWELL@CWBIO.BIOC.CWRU.EDU)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin)
Subject: Grand Slam Cup -- Friday play (spoilers)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 22:51:10 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Maryversity von Uniland, College Park
Originator: clin@transform.eng.umd.edu


   I didn't see much of the Stich-Krajicek match, only that it looked pretty
close and that there weren't too many rallies.   Stich won 7-6, 6-4 and
made the only break of the match in the second set.   He said there
wasn't much between the two, but he felt that he was more mentally
into it (perhaps after winning the tie-break).

    The Leconte-Sampras match was a lot of fun.   The crowd seemed heavily
pro-Leconte, and Leconte played the crowd like Connors did.   Leconte
showed a lot of the shotmaking brilliance he is capable of, and the
match looked awfully close throughout the first set with Leconte
never facing a break point, and Sampras fighting of a few break
points.    The problem Leconte had was partly his consistency
in returning serve, and partly that Sampras served quite well, hitting
a dozen aces thoughout the match.

    Sampras was basically content hitting good shots, and waiting for
Leconte to fade.   Down 3-0 in the tie-break,  Sampras won the next
7 points in the tie-break, and it seemed with this, the momentum had
switched to Sampras's favor.   Early in the second set, Sampras was
able to break Leconte, and then hold this break through to win the 
match.   There was an interesting and amusing exchange when Sampras
had served two consecutive let serves.   He came to the net to measure
the height with his racquet.   Leconte then came up to measure the
net as well.   Finally, the net judge, Sultan Gangji came up to officially
measure the height.   Sampras hit quite a few double faults in the
match, and this was attributed to a low toss.   Nevertheless, he
never hit them at critical times.    All the Davis Cup ties Sampras
has now played probably helped keep Sampras calm and hitting his shots
while Leconte was playing to the crowd.   Leconte, I felt, had his
chances.   If he was a little more consistent, he could have taken
at least the set.

    There was one funny scene that ESPN showed with Leconte peeling
and eating a banana.   I guess you would have had to seen it.

--
Charles Lin
clin@eng.umd.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Monday, 14 Dec 1992 10:31:30 CST
From: <U58476@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Re: grunting rule

htilney@vax.clarku.edu writes:

>There have been plenty of players before Seles who have grunted during
>matches.  I wonder why it is becoming a bigger concern now.

For one thing, Monica Seles does not grunt, she emits a high-pitched SCREAM,
or shriek even.  I don't think anyone before her ever created such an audio
sensation virtually EVERY TIME she hits the ball...my TV buzzes sometimes. :-)
Nevertheless, after being on the receiving end of Monica at her loudest (French
Open finals), Steffi Graf said that she doesn't really notice it because she's
concentrating on her own game, & Mary Jo Fernandez has made similar comments.
Obviously, some players can block it out better than others.

I am not a fan of Seles or her sound effects, but I think making such a big
issue out of it now is too much after the fact.

Natasha