From: garrod@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (David Garrod)
Subject: Re: Sexual Discrimination
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 00:03:33 GMT

In article <C1J8Mu.4rv@apollo.hp.com>, nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
> In article <2527@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca> bouche2@server.uwindsor.ca (BOUCHER DAVID            ) writes:
> 
> >I took his question to be "Is this statistic EVIDENCE that men are 
> >denied equal protection?"  The answer to that question is undeniably YES.
> 
>   I deny it, so it's not undeniable.  It's not evidence, or at least
>   good evidence of *anything* without having more information.   As I
>   said before, U.S. EE's are overwhelmingly white males.   Is this 
>   "evidence" or "EVIDENCE" of discrimination by companies that employ
>   them?   No.  It doesn't rule out discrimination but it's hardly evidence
>   of it.  There could be any number of cultural or other factors.
> 
         To some extent, I agree with you.  However, there is difference
         between EEs and divorcing parents.  In terms of people studying
         EE, white males start out dominating the statistics so pure
         numbers are obviously going to be dominated by white males.
         For parents, however, they start out exactly equal in numbers,
         and women end up about 10:1 with custody.
(I took EE to mean Electrical Engineering major, not Elementary 
Education major.....otherwise your arguments ain`t true to start with.)
> 
> >But it is not the LAW that "treats people differently", it is the manner
> >in which the law is ENFORCED.  If there is a law against loitering, but
    Agreed, that`s what the bitching is about.
> >only blacks are arrested for violating that law while whites are set free
> >with a nod and a wink, then surely the law enforcement officers would be 
> >guilty of discrimination.                             
> 
>   But your analogy isn't exact since it has two independent variables
>   -- who gets arrested and who gets set free.   The custody data that
>   prompted this post only had one : the percentage of men awarded
>   custody.  
> 
           The posting had data for percentage of male custody and
           percentage of female custody.

>   So a better analogy would be what if we noted that 75% of 
>   loitering arrests were of blacks?   Does this show evidence
>   of discrimination?   
> 
>   And the answer is no.  What if we were looking at statistics
>   for loitering arrests in a place that was predominantly black?
>   or What if blacks, due to higher unemployment, really DO loiter
>   more often?   (etc).   
> 
              Again note the starting point - equal males and females
              There is an initial constraint of equality of numbers.

   There is an out for the judges:  We were only doing what is in the
best interest of the children and "usually" mothers are better nurturers
than fathers.

OK.   Now take these statistics:

In Indiana, the laws are sex neutral.  The laws also state that a child
support order be made, with a minimum of $25/week for one child.

     The statistics are when a father gets custody, only 48% of the
     time will he get support from the mother.  When a mother gets
     custody 99.6% of the time she gets support from the mother.

Explain that without using, any concept of sexual bias.!!

David Garrod