HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Los nin~os que hablan esperanto
Date: 11 Jan 93 08:22:28 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

Saludos Gene Ledbetter,

Aqui van mis comentarios:

>!Vaya, hombre!  ?Quieres hablar con ellos?  Mas en serio,
>prefiero qu no sea nadie que hable esperanto y nada mas.
>Cuando hablamos espan~ol soy yo el extranjero.  Cuando
>hablamos ingles, hay otros que lo son.  Cuando hablamos
>esperanto somos todos extranjeros iguales, es decir ninguno
>de nosotros no lo es.

Precisamente.  No te has dado cuenta como el hablante "extranjero" no tiene la 
capacidad de expresarse con "proficiencia" en otra lengua que no sea su lengua 
nativa. ?Es que acaso nos quieren dejar tartamudos a todos?

>> Pues claro que lo es, [un verdadero idioma] de la misma
>> manera que Pascal, C y Lisp son verdaderos idiomas; pero no
>> son lenguas naturales ....

>Aquellas lenguas son naturales para sus compiladores.
>Digamos que Dios creyo el hombre moderno dentro de unos
>segundos, o Darwin lo creyo durante millones de an~os de
>evolucion; ?Cual de los dos es el hombre natural?  Yo diria
>ambos.

Si, el ultimo que penso asi fue Descartes, pero el dualismo paso de moda hace 
mucho tiempo y yo creo que hay bastante evidencia cientifica que nos dice que 
el hombre "evoluciono", que las lenguas artificiales como LISP no tienen la el 
poder expresivo de las lenguas naturales y que el esperanto no es una lengua 
natural.

[...]

>Sin hablantes nativos, el latin era un buen idioma
>internacial; todos los hablantes eran iguales.  Pero habian
>almenos dos problemas:  el nacionalismo total de nuestro
>tiempo y la dificultad de aprender el latin.

No, no, sin hablantes nativos, el latin no servia como idioma.  Los monjes 
medievales trataron de mantenerlo vivo y llego el momento donde no podian 
comunicarse eficientemente (salvo en la escritura) entre si mismos.  Los 
latinistas de hoy dia tampoco lo pueden usar son eficiencia oral porque es una 
LENGUA MUERTA.  El esperanto, ni siquera es lengua muerta, nunca ha nacido como 
lengua.


>No somos de acuerdo en los detalles, pero hasta ahora parece
>que tu tienes toda la razon.  No tenemos una linguafranca en
>el mundo.  No la quieren mismo los sen~ores en la ONU.
>Almenos tenemos nosotros, muchos amigos internacionales y yo,
>una linguafranca con quien comunicar entre nosotros.

?Quien dijo que habia que saber esperanto para tener muchos amigos 
internacionales?

Edelmiro
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.sex,talk.politics.misc
From: atropos@netlab.cis.brown.edu (David O'Donnell)
Subject: Re: Specil or equal rights?
Summary: (Hopefully) correcting yet-another-phobe
Keywords: rights, equality, homosexuality
Organization: Enhanced Cybernetic Logic Operating Systems Group
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 07:39:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.204624.17742@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>From: ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu
>Edelmiro Salas  says:
>
>>No, in CALIFORNIA we granted them special legal status (given their political 
>>control of places like San Francisco. In Colorado voters rejected a proposal 
>>which would have given gays and lesbians the status of an underrepresented 
>>ethnic minority and would make them qualify for State Affirmative Action 
>>programs and special legal status, when in fact they are overrepresented 
>>economically, are very affulent, have much more political clout, than say... 
>>blacks.  The voters decision simply says were not in favor of people 
>>discriminating you (as we're not in favor of anybody discriminating against 
>>anybody), but we won't give you the same monetary and special legal status 
>>given to Native Americans.  I thinks a very reasonable decision and I don't 
>>know why their making such a fuss about it, they even want to compare the 
>>Colorado vote with the Arizona one refusin to conmemorate King's Holiday!!  
>
>As far as I understand, Gays and Lesbians are asking for equal protection
>under the law and not for special rights.
>Also, I understand that it has nothing to do with Affirmative Action programs.

The latter paragraph is correct. Bisexuals, gay men and lesbians are NOT out
to "grab" any rights other than those which should be accorded every human
being: life, liberty and the pursuit if happiness are among them. We pursue
the right to a job, and the right to not be fired -solely- based on our sex-
uality. We pursue the right to a place to live, and the right not to be ejected
-solely- based on our sexuality.
	We pursue the right to be protected under the law =equally= with other
human beings. Today, law enforcement agencies and the government ignore crimes
against gay men, lesbians and bisexuals. Homicides which would normally be
investigated and prosecuted vigorously are looked into only in passing and
barely, if at all, prosecuted. Men and women who are so much as -perceived- as
being gay or bisexual or lesbian *can be* and *are* ejected from their places
of residence and jobs =solely= because the landlord or employer is a bigot
against sexual orientation/preference.
	We do not seek preferential treatment: we seek EQUITY.

--Dave O'Donnell
  atropos@netlab.cis.brown.edu
  My Opinions!  Mine!  All Mine!
From: ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: CIA Agent on Che's Assassination
Date: 5 Jan 93 21:00:38 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

From my recollections as a former communist, I remember reading on how a        
conflict between Guevarra and Fidel began to emerge soon after the revolution.
Guevarra wanted to embark on a policy of "moral stimulus" to the economy (i.e.,
have the Cubans produce more out of socialist convictions, wheras Fidel
wanted to stress on economic rewards as stimulus for augmenting worker
productivity.  That is, Fidel wanted to institutionalize his "revolution" by
sovietizing the economy, wheras Che wanted to radicalize the process in a
Trotsky like permanent revoultion.  Needless to say Fidel had ultimate power
and Che could only continue his revolution abroad (as a true socialist: an      
internationalist) so he fled Castros pragmatism and adventured on his own
without Soviet support.  The end result was that he tried to shove socialism
down the throats of many peseant who felt more capitalist than A. Smith, and
it was very easy for the Bolivian army to isolate his jacobin adventure into
guerrilla warfare.  So in a sense the lack of support from Castro again did
him in, and was in a way, responsible for his death.

Edelmiro
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
From: ccadeff@sadeff.vislab.olemiss.edu (Sergio Adeff)
Subject: Re: estupideses sobre sendero
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 23:02:40 GMT

In <lks379INNk7m@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> aldo@ips-server.Eng.Sun.COM (Aldo Castillo) writes:

>Julio Gonzalez escribio:

>>	A proposito del Peru. Una pregunta general. Aqui
>>	se habla de que Fujimori no es democratico, pero
>>	tambien se dice que 70% del pueblo respalda sus
>>	acciones. Es esto cierto ?

>Estoy muy seguro de que Adolf Hitler tambien era muy popular,
>o Mussolini, o ... Atila.  La popularidad no implica democracia
>o viceversa.

>Saludos,

>Aldo Castillo

Aldo, never so few words explained so much.  I agree 100 % with you.  I is the
method that somehow works, not the persons selected through it.  The selection
(or election) is not permanent, and the sole fact of abandoning the system
however apparently excusable, destroys it. 

-- 
-- Sergio E. Adeff, Ph.D., Professor of Engineering & Supercomputer Consultant  
-- The University of Mississippi      Phone: 601-232-7206    FAX: 601-232-7180
-- 107 Powers Hall                    Internet: ccAdeff@Crayx.MCSR.OleMiss.Edu 
-- University, MS 38677, U.S.A.       ________________________________________ 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
From: glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
Subject: Re: Homophobia: US vs. CUBA
Originator: glp@merlin
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:48:44 GMT


In article <2B4C706C.23805@news.service.uci.edu>, rravelo@asturias.acs.uci.edu (Ray Ravelo) writes:

|>  Last night on "Nighline" they talked about the Colorado boycott, etc.
|>  Martina was one of the guess. One of the things she insisted on was on their
|>  "right" to adopt children. Now, I don't think it's in the best interest of
|>  a child to be raised by a homosexual couple ....

No study (and there have been several) has found
that being raised by a same-sex couple had adverse
effects on children - in fact, they are usually
happier and better adjusted.

|>  In adoption procedings most government agencies and most black citizens even
|>  oppose adoption of black children by white couples, so adoption of children
|>  by gays seems to me would be more of a traumatic experience than being raised
|>  by couples of another race.....

So then gay children should be placed with gay people?

-- 
Greg Parkinson                  Phone: 212-657-7814  Fax: 212-825-8607
Citibank,111 Wall Street        E-Mail: glp@fig.citib.com
New York, New York  10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
From: jcg2@ukc.ac.uk (J.Castano-Galvez)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Email in the University of North Carolina
Date: 11 Jan 93 10:25:52 GMT
Organization: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.

Alguien podria ser tan amable de conseguirme el email del:

Dr Forrest W. Young
L.L. Thurstone Psychometric Laboratory
University of North Carolina at Chapell Hill

Gracias de antemano,

Jairo Castano, University of Kent at Canterbury, England.
.

~
From: julio@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Julio Gonzalez)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Human Rights in Cuba
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:32:55 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <2B48B4C2.28088@news.service.uci.edu>, rravelo@asturias.acs.uci.edu (Ray Ravelo) writes:

> 
>  Talking about Castro's health care, I have an uncle who's presently visiting
>  his son here in California. He's a communist and he likes "almost everything"
>  Castro had done there, but you should see his teeth and the melanoma-like
>  stuff on his face.
	
	Could we know what he thinks about the Cuban situation ?
	Of course if he doesn't hate it he may be deported back to Cuba.

>    Needless to say, my uncle is seriously considering my nephew's offer
>  to stay here in the US with him!

	I hope he stays. But will he be allowed to visit the Island
	once he starts being a USA citizen ? Remember "Americans" are
	not allowed visits there unless they can prove some "good"
	reasons to do so.
>  
>  Did you know that for every extra month my uncle stays here my nephew has to
>  pay $150.00 per month to Castro's government so his dad's few belongings in Cuba
>  are not confiscated and he won't lose his apartment? Should we call that
>  extortion or what? .......

	That seems a pretty cheap storage price. How much is it to store
	things here ? Does he have to pay rent also ? If I go to Chile
	I have to pay for the rent in my place. $400 per month.


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Julio , U of Penn, Philadelphia 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jy2y1@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (Ton~o Scherer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: RUMOR: Fidel y el Pendulo de Foucalt
Date: 11 Jan 93 14:05:23 EST
Distribution: soc
Organization: Cornell University


	Se rumora entre entre los Paulinos que Fidel es el Conde de
Saint-German ... he ahi la razon que le quito las plantaciones de can~a
a aquellos que simpatizan con Radoski !!! :-)

	(Y dale que dale con el Caballon) 

-- 

_______________________________________________________________________________
             
                                 - "Por la esquina del viejo barrio lo vi
 jy2y1@vax5.cit.cornell.edu      -  pasa', con el tumbao que tienen lo' guapo'
				 -  al camina'"
					
_______________________________________________________________________________ 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
From: salas@ra.nrl.navy.mil (Miguel Salas)
Subject: Guantanamo Bay
Organization: Naval Research Lab, Washington, DC
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:26:42 GMT

I often wonder about Castro allowing US to have a Base in Guantanamo Bay.
Since Castro has such hatred towards the US, why did he allowed a Base
exist?
Is that land leased, therefore they get money out of it?
If this is plenty of land, whynot have Haitians make a community there?
I am one who has known many Haitians in Miami and I think for the most
part, they are beautiful people to be around.

Please reply anyone. 

thanks

Miguel
From: julio@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Julio Gonzalez)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Cuba/Drug Trade
Date: 8 Jan 93 23:04:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <20777@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu writes:

> trial in Havana.  Once they get the evidence I'm all in favor of sending out
> an All Points Bulletin to the Marines.
> 
> Edelmiro

	That's why Chomsky calls the USA a "terrorist state".
	Comm'on, keep on invading Latinoamerica,  you are the
	biggest dog around, arent' you that gives you the right...
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Julio , U of Penn, Philadelphia 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Human Rights in Cuba
Date: 5 Jan 93 17:32:09 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

Ray Ravelo writes:

> Bueno, se sabe que si se le pregunta a doce judios algo te dan 13 respuestas!
> Asi, que unos dicen que ser judio es relacionado con su religion, otros dicen
> que no. Lo que sea. Lo que creo es que decir que la mayoria de los judios
> son socialistas o marxistas es un poco como darle la razon a los anti-semitas
> de Hitler y los "pemiat"(?) rusos de ahora que acusan a los judios del 
> desastre

La verdad es que no conozco a un solo judio que sea Marxista (a menos que 
consideren a Marx Judio solo por haber nacido en una familia Judia (dicen lo 
mismo de Hitler), aunque puede que sea mi falta de conocimiento.  Lo que si 
parece intersante es que nunca he visto a un Judio de "izquierda" abogar a 
favor de Fidel Castro o de un regimen estalinista.  El mismo Timmerman destruye 
el mito de la revolucion Cubana, y Chomsky nunca niega que Castro haya 
cometidos crimines contra la humanidad, solo los minusvalora cuando los compara 
con la dictadura guatemaltecas.  En fin no conozco a ningun judio que alabe a 
Castro.  Es mas, el gobierno de Israel se ha pasado la vida apoyando las 
fuerzas democraticas fuera y dentro de Cuba  Tal vez Alberto sea el primer 
Judio castrista que yo conozca, pues parece ser que hay algo aberrante que 
espan al judaismo en Cuba.  El dia de navidad tuve la oportunidad de Cenar con 
una grupo de medicos judios en Nueva York (capital de Latino America), los 
cuales habian establecido su primera residencia en Santo Domingo, antes de 
volver a Nueva York.  Pasamos una noche excelente llena de humor y 
conversaciones sobre la politica latinoamericana, y me sorprendio  el consenso 
que existia hacia la politica hacia Cuba.  Para colmo de mis estereotipos, lo 
que mas les gusto de la cena fue el pernil relleno (a la Cubana) que les traje. 
 Despues de todo, si los hay "marxistas" tambien los hay quienes comen cerdo...

Edelmiro
From: rravelo@asturias.acs.uci.edu (Ray Ravelo)
Subject: Re: Homophobia: US vs. CUBA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 9 Jan 93 00:25:28 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.121004.24665@tdb.uu.se> Mats.Bredell@udac.uu.se writes:

>Why not? Studies show that children being raised by homosexual parents don't
>suffer from anything that other children don't suffer from. And since most
>sociological studies show that homosexuals are better parents, perhaps it
>should be the other way around.

 Oh sure, from now on we should give our kids to homosexual couples to
 raised them "straight" and with more "love." We'll "make" them and they'll raise
 them and that way all our child-care problems will be solved!
 
 Why didn't we think of that in America?
--
Ray I. Ravelo                "We're your opposition, Mr. Castro, we 10 million
Office of Academic Computing. Cubans who look around us in terror"
UC, Irvine.                 from the open letter to Castro by M.E. Cruz-Varela
From: rravelo@asturias.acs.uci.edu (Ray Ravelo)
Subject: Re: Human Rights in Cuba
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:05:54 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <20687@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu writes:
>Alberto Pinkas writes:

>
>Alberto, I'm still waiting to see where your family lived before being sent to 
>the concentration camps. I'll bet you they weren't homeless.  Now, what's 
>important of all this discussion is that there is no correlation between living 
>healthy and having a roof and enjoying human rights, for opression doesn't 
>necesarilly take on an economic character, unless of course you happen to be a 
>Marxist and believe in material determinism.  Castro could have the best care 
>system in the world (somthing very doubtful sinde they don't even have aspirin 
>for their patients) yet be one of the worst human rights violators as well.
>
>Edelmiro

 Talking about Castro's health care, I have an uncle who's presently visiting
 his son here in California. He's a communist and he likes "almost everything"
 Castro had done there, but you should see his teeth and the melanoma-like
 stuff on his face. My nephew took him to the doctor to have him examine for
 possible skin cancer; he's 73 years old and a few months ago Castro's
 government removed him from the milk quota he was "entitled" to, now he's weight
 is only 120 pounds. Is the American "blockade" preventing Castro's cows from
 producing milk too? I remember that before Castro Cuba used to export foodstuff
 like vegetables and fruits to the US and Europe, now there are not even
 mangos. Even my communist uncle "does not know what happened to the mangos in
 Cuba". Needless to say, my uncle is seriously considering my nephew's offer
 to stay here in the US with him!
 
 Also:
 Did you know that for every extra month my uncle stays here my nephew has to
 pay $150.00 per month to Castro's government so his dad's few belongings in Cuba
 are not confiscated and he won't lose his apartment? Should we call that
 extortion or what? .......
--
Ray I. Ravelo                "We're your opposition, Mr. Castro, we 10 million
Office of Academic Computing. Cubans who look around us in terror"
UC, Irvine.                 from the open letter to Castro by M.E. Cruz-Varela
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 10:28:19 EST
From: <CAC104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: language course

I need a self-paced guide, text, or whatever to learn basic conversational
Spanish.  Does anyone out there have any suggestions?
From: julio@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Julio Gonzalez)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Homophobia: US vs. CUBA
Date: 8 Jan 93 21:56:20 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <2B4C706C.23805@news.service.uci.edu>, rravelo@asturias.acs.uci.edu (Ray Ravelo) writes:

>  Martina was one of the guess. One of the things she insisted on was on their
>  "right" to adopt children. Now, I don't think it's in the best interest of
>  a child to be raised by a homosexual couple ....
>  
> Ray I. Ravelo                "We're your opposition, Mr. Castro, we 10 million
> Office of Academic Computing. Cubans who look around us in terror"
> UC, Irvine.                 from the open letter to Castro by M.E. Cruz-Varela

	Could you be more explicit on this idea. I don't see any
	problems of "principle" for a homosexual-couple to raise
	a child. I do see practical problems due to bigoty in 
	society, but society needs to accept all sorst of minorities.


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Julio , U of Penn, Philadelphia 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rravelo@asturias.acs.uci.edu (Ray Ravelo)
Subject: Re: Homophobia: US vs. CUBA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:39:45 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.202448.15265@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>In article <2B4C706C.23805@news.service.uci.edu> rravelo@asturias.acs.uci.edu (Ray Ravelo) writes:

>
>Can you explain why?

 I you need explanation on this one, then it'll be a waste of time on my
 part to explained to you!

>> In adoption procedings most government agencies and most black citizens even
>> oppose adoption of black children by white couples, so adoption of children
>> by gays seems to me would be more of a traumatic experience than being raised
>> by couples of another race.....
>>
>
>Can you explain why?

 See above

>See, you and Castro have some points in common after all!

 Maybe, but not as many as you and him have in common!



--
Ray I. Ravelo                "We're your opposition, Mr. Castro, we 10 million
Office of Academic Computing. Cubans who look around us in terror"
UC, Irvine.                 from the open letter to Castro by M.E. Cruz-Varela

Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
From: chorley@vms.ocom.okstate.edu
Subject: Argentine Meccano/Exacto
Organization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:45:31 GMT

Evidently there is a company in Argentina which manufactures Meccano (for
USA-nians = erector set) under the trade name of Exacto (?).
I would be grateful if anyone out there could supply the address of that
particular company and also wholesale/retail prices.
	If anyone has experience in exportation of goods from Argentina to the
U.S., I would be interested in what they had to say.

Thank you in advance,

David N. Chorley