HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jlevy@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (janet.s.levy)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: sentementality
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:04:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsd.1992Oct6.190456.9533
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <2345@gandalf.intel.com> linda@linda.intel.com (Linda Harbin) writes:
>
>This thread has really gotten me thinking.  My other horse, Asa, never gave
>me the chance to put him down.  He died before the vet and I could make a
>decision.  But now I have Reba who, many of you may remember, has bone spavins.
>I am still riding her but if I want to get into serious riding, I am going
>to have to look at getting another horse.  Since I cannot afford two horses,
>I want to find a good home for her and will not look for another horse until
>I have found a home for Reba.  The thought keeps crossing my mind that with
>her bone spavins, I may not be able to find a good home for her and I would
>rather put her down that risk her going to a bad home.  
>
>Now the hard question.  I do not want to start any flame wars but if I have
>to put her down, do I have the vet do it or do I sell her to the meat
>market and get some money out of her.  I know this sounds cold and I really
>agonize over it.  I hear horrible stories of how horses are treated on their
>way to the meat market, then I hear other people say the horrible stories are
>just rumors and horses are not treated that way.  How do you know? 
>
>Like I said, I do not want to start a flame war, but does anyone out there
>have any thoughts on this subject?
>

I had a friend whose wonderful Appaloosa was discovered to have a
navicular bone which was virtually in tiny pieces.  (It probably
was a consequence of an overdose of wormer which was administered by
a vet hospital and gave the horse many subsequent circulatory problems.)
Anyway, her only choice was nerving which would give him a little more
time, but eventually, the tendon would be severed by the bone chips.
She decided to put him down, and because she needed money to buy a new
horse, she considered selling him for meat.  She researched extensively
in our area (Chicago) to try to find a safe way to get him to the
market and humanely destroyed, but even the dealers who could trailer
him there in good equipment had to put the horses through an auction at
the slaughter house.  There the horse could be sold to anyone.  There
was no way she could find to be sure that the horse would be humanely
destroyed, so she had the vet clinic put him down.

This is my only experience with this matter - maybe there is some way
to get it done but she couldn't find one.  My own feelings have always
been that the most fair way to treat your faithful friend is to make sure
the end is peaceful and painless.

Janet Levy
jsl@ihlpm.ATT.COM
From: linda@linda.intel.com (Linda Harbin)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Slaughtering
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:30:14 GMT
Reply-To: linda@linda.intel.com (Linda Harbin)
Organization: Adams Software, Lake Oswego OR  USA


Why is it that horses being sent to the slaughter house are treated differently
than cattle, or sheep, or pigs, etc.  Why aren't they under the same laws -
or are they but the meat-marketeers do what they can to avoid the laws? 

I KNOW it use to be that livestock could not be transported more than 8 hours
without feed and water.  Wouldn't horses be covered by this law?  I doubt if 
this law has changed but I would not be surprised if haulers did all they 
could to avoid the law (i.e. travel at night to avoid being detected, taking 
back roads when possible, etc.)

Isn't there something we as a group can do to help prevent this?  Is writing
our Congressmen enough?  Are there groups lobbying against this in Wash D.C.?
Are there groups in the US that are fighting this kind of treatment to 
horses that I can write to and offer my support - both monetary and otherwise?  

If anyone has any thoughts on this, I would love to hear them.

Megan, I did not talk about this last night at pizza because the thought of
even putting Reba down is too depressing and emotional for me and I usually
start crying even at the thought of it.  I did not feel like crying last
night.  Hope you understand.

***************************************************
	Linda Harbin       Hillsboro, Oregon 
	503-696-2261       linda@littlei.intel.com
***************************************************
From: C20211@prime-a.plymouth.ac.uk (John Horne)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Feeding too much fat.
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:54:31 GMT
Reply-To: equestrians@world.std.com
Organization: BBN news/mail gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.bbn.com

Hi all,

There was, in the UK, a symposium some time ago about nutrition for
performance horses, and one of the topics was about feeding fat/oil to them.
Most of the stuff I learnt has already been touched on in the recent postings,
but one point raised was that feeding TOO MUCH fat can cause problems for
the horse since it inhibits his/her normal energy production from glycogen.
As to what constitutes 'too much', or if the effect is quickly noticable or
only after a period of time, was not mentioned. Actually the speaker, he was
something like head of R&D at Purina, was talking of the 'optimum' amount to
feed a horse as 1/2Lb of fat a day - again, optimum for whom (or what)?
(Sorry it's a bit vague, but it was a symposium and not a training day/lecture.
Some of us were writing as much down as we could, but these guys kept on
talking without a break! :-) )

Another point was that they only fed vegetable oils. Animal fat caused
problems, and apparently none of the horses would go near fish oil! Anyone
any comments on this?
He also recommended feeding a supplement of Vitamin E and Selenium if a
significant amount of fat was in the horses diet. This would help avoid the
horse tying up, although it wasn't actually mentioned.

As to Francis's original question about using it as a prophylactic - the
answer from the symposium seemed to be 'Yes. Horses benefit by being fed
fat/oil.'

(BTW, Francis if you want a copy of my notes, then send me your
work address. Also you mentioned feeding linseed. I gather that UK farmers
are being encouraged to grow linseed; I think it has some benefit to cattle
(I can't remember the exact reason), and no-one at the moment seems to grow
much of it. So maybe we'll see more linseed being fed to horses, as it becomes
more readily available).


John Horne,
Univ. of Plymouth, UK.
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Putting a floor in a horse trailer
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Date: 4 Oct 92 09:38:20 EST
Organization: Wright State University 


In many horse trailers, replacing the floor is really 'no big deal'.  I'm
currently involved in putting a new floor in my cousin's trailer.  He has
been very nice in loaning his trailers to me so I decided to pay him back
by replacing the floor in his two horse King trailer.  I just bought two
2 by 12 by 12 oak pieces and one 2 by 8 by 8.  I only paid around 23 dollars
for all this at the local saw mill.  And these are full 2 by 12 slabs, not
the trimmed and planed stuff you get at a lumber yard.  I'll be cutting them
to fit and putting in place today.  Not a hard task at all, except cutting
the oak with my circular saw is sorta tough.

Sue
From: mclain@hpspkla.spk.hp.com (Dara L. Mclain)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Software for a vet (followup and summary)
Date: 30 Sep 92 21:17:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpspkla.6730008
Organization: Hewlett Packard Company, Spokane, Wa.



>If anyone can, on further reconsideration, provide a pointer to
>a developer of such a package, please (please, please) let
>me know.

My husband works in a small animal practice and they use a package called
VetPak. It keeps track of animal history, as well as all the usual stuff,
inventory, accounts etc. It also does reminders automatically. I'm sure
there's lots I'm not mentioning, but I know it's fairly easy to learn
because my husband had never touched a computer before and he got through
it fine. It is used with WordPerfect, a reasonably easy word processing
software package and is easily modified to suit your practice.

The originator and seller is: Phil Ruemmler
                              Dr. Harding D.V.M.
                              42 Goethals Drive
                              Richland, WA 99352 

                              (509) 946-4138

Good luck in your search!

Dara McLain
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: sentementality
Date: 6 Oct 92 11:35:02 GMT
 <1aq4acINNi9n@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> <2345@gandalf.intel.com>
Organization: Wright State University

In article <2345@gandalf.intel.com>, linda@linda.intel.com (Linda Harbin) writes:
> In article <1aq4acINNi9n@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, pallas@CEPHALO.NEUSC.BCM.TMC.EDU (Sarah Pallas) writes:
> |> Sarah Pallas and Monty (my half-leased horse who is owned and loved by
>                                                                  ^^^^^^^^
> |> somebody else!)
>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Don't you love him too?
> 
> This thread has really gotten me thinking.  My other horse, Asa, never gave
> me the chance to put him down.  He died before the vet and I could make a
> decision.  But now I have Reba who, many of you may remember, has bone spavins.
> I am still riding her but if I want to get into serious riding, I am going
> to have to look at getting another horse.  Since I cannot afford two horses,
> I want to find a good home for her and will not look for another horse until
> I have found a home for Reba.  The thought keeps crossing my mind that with
> her bone spavins, I may not be able to find a good home for her and I would
> rather put her down that risk her going to a bad home.  
> 

When my horses get older and are no longer able to be shown or else just need
a place where they are ridden less, I lease them out on a long term lease.
I always retain title, repeatedly tell the people that they have the horse
ONLY as long as I am sure they are giving it a good home, I drop in from time
to time unexpectedly to check out the horse's condition and, when they no
longer want the horse, I find a new home for it.  I just recently moved one
of my old mares to a new home.  She is now teaching a family how to ride.
I have three old horses, all over 20 who are now out on lease.  I even get
Christmas cards from one family with a yearly picture of the mare they have.

I don't think I'll ever sell another horse.  The last one I sold was mistreated
and there was no way I could get her back.

Sue

> Now the hard question.  I do not want to start any flame wars but if I have
> to put her down, do I have the vet do it or do I sell her to the meat
> market and get some money out of her.  I know this sounds cold and I really
> agonize over it.  I hear horrible stories of how horses are treated on their
> way to the meat market, then I hear other people say the horrible stories are
> just rumors and horses are not treated that way.  How do you know? 
> 
> Like I said, I do not want to start a flame war, but does anyone out there
> have any thoughts on this subject?
> 
> ***************************************************
> 	Linda Harbin       Hillsboro, Oregon 
> 	503-696-2261       linda@littlei.intel.com
> ***************************************************
From: rlt@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (r l taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: sentementality
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:27:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsl.1992Oct6.182749.9124
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

All these postings have got me thinking about the new friend I made this
weekend.  I had stopped at the barn to pay my board and nag my nag :-)
but since nobody was around, I took a ride up to the main barn.  After
filling me in about all the latest problems (owner's horse was at the
Equine Trauma Center with a case of colic that just wouldn't quit...as
it turned out, he recovered without surgery, but that's another story)
Shelly asked me if I had seen their new TB stallion.  Knowing my love
for TB's and hardluck cases, she found it hard to believe I'd missed him.
But, since (I thought) all the horses were out, I hadn't even browsed
the barn.  (I should know better.  Linda's always collecting strays.)
Turns out this old fella, whose name is Lee Gary (anybody ever hear of
him?) was being boarded, but his owner stopped paying...so I guess they
stopped feeding him.  When the owner was contacted for back board, he
(she?) signed over the papers, saying "You can have him - I don't want
him."  Apparently he still didn't get fed too well, as he's skin and
bones (though he's gained a bit in the week Linda has had him.)  His
feet were a mess, as are his teeth.  Those teeth are going to have to
wait a little while, though, cause he won't let anyone near his mouth.
When they went to halter him, he lunged out and bit the halter, so we
speculate that someone used to beat him with one.  But he's coming around.
The vet has been out to worm and vaccinate him, he's had his feet done,
and the dentist will be out as soon as it's practical.  According to the
vet, he should recover completely, and be useful for breeding by next
spring.  Linda has decided that, as long as he can earn part of his
keep with stud fees, he can stay.  If I know her, he'll probably be
around for the rest of his life, regardless.  If I know me, :-) if she
does decide to sell him, he may stay around anyway...(I know, the last
thing in the world I need is a 20-year old ex-racing *stallion*!  But
that never stopped me before.)

It makes me sick to see the way some people repay their horses for years
of service and friendship.  From what I understand, LG was no slouch on
the track.  And his foals have done a lot of winning, as well.  Plus, for
all the mistreatment, he seems good natured, like he wants to be friends.
I wish I could be so forgiving...

So please, keep posting those sentimental stories.  I need to remind
myself that there are a whole lot of good people out there!

Roberta
..and CQ, the SquirrellyBred DingBat Love-of-my-Life :-)
From: james@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (James E. Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: GIF's of Horses?
Date: 2 Oct 92 22:20:29 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Northeastern University
In-reply-to: jen187@mis.csiro.au's message of 1 Oct 92 06:47:24 GMT


I for one am *very* interested.  Looking forward to your message!
--
-------------------------

James E. Jones, Jr.
College of Engineering
Northeastern University
Boston, Massachusetts 02115

internet: james@nueng.coe.northeastern.edu
BITnet:  james@nuhub
Phone: (617)437-4430
FAX: (617)437-2501

*** All comments made are my own,                 ***
*** they are not those of Northeastern University ***
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: ceduke@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (Carolyn Duke)
Subject: Re: Pulling contests
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 10:36:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.211349.3368@u.washington.edu> jespah@carson.u.washington.edu (Kathleen Hunt) writes:
>woit@qucis.queensu.ca (Denise Woit) writes:
>>They are percheron horses. They were used, as apparently most percherons are
>>in Newfoundland, to compete in pulling contests. Some believe these contests
>>are cruel, because the horse is hitched to heavier and heavier weights, and
>>whipped until they're so exhausted that they can't pull anymore.
>
>I was very interested to see this description of pulling as a cruel sporti,
>as literally a fate worse than death.  I've seen a lot of pulling contests
>in small county fairs in Maine, and for the most part the horses seemed
>to be treated well -- though they did work hard (but I don't think hard
>work per se is cruel).  Have any of you seen cruelty at pulling contests,
>and is it maybe more common in some areas or at some levels of the sport
>than in others?  I'll describe what I saw in Maine:
>
>The horses all seemed very excited about pulling.  They would all trot
>into the arena with this big high-stepping trot, with the driver and
>his flank men racing along behind holding up the harness.  As the horses
>were backed up to attach the, whatcha call it, the big metal piece that
>the traces were attached to (sorry, I don't know anything about harnesses)
>to the sled, they would just be dancing in place, those huge hooves going
>up and down like they were walking on hot coals, all their muscles bunched
>up.  The *instant* the horses heard the "clang!" of the metal thing 
>dropping onto the cart pin, they would *LUNGE* forward to start pulling.
>Sometimes the pin didn't connect, and the horses would launch themselves
>practically out of the arena in one jump, dragging all their men 
>behind them.  Some horses seemed to be too hyper to be able to coordinate
>their efforts, while other teams were very smooth and efficient.  The
>teams I saw all looked in good flesh, with massive muscles.  I didn't see
>any starved horses.  Maybe that happens only with horses just on the edge
>of a weight class.  

Disclaimer: All my info is hearsay. I have never been directly involved
with draft horses, in fact my horse is scared witless of them (silly horse).

But I do know that it's very difficult to retrain a draft horse that's been
used in pulling contents, since he will take off and never stop. Very dangerous
to hitch to a regular wagon or cart. Only young horses are used in pulling
contests. I have dark suspicions of the training involved to make the horses
so hyper to pull right away, and of what happens to the older horses (since
they're too dangerous to use for regular driving).

I don't believe that horses are starved, although, since that would weaken them.
------
ceduke & Amadeus, the one scared silly of drafts.
Just mah lil ol' opinions.
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: crowede@ucs.orst.edu (Debra Crowe)
Subject: Morbid question ...
Organization: UCS, Oregon State University
Distribution: us
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:57:34 GMT

I have an uncomfortable subject to be brought up...but it has been discussed in
our family recently and I just didn't know the answer. 

What does one DO with a horse once it's died?? No, my horse isn't dead, but
eventually we'll have to deal with this. (she's a healthy, happy 26 yo). She's
currently at my folks 8+ acre farm in retirement. Can you dig a BIG hole in the
'back 40' and buy her? They're in a rural area. I know that the vets take them
sometimes, but since she's been with the family for 17 years and is thought of
as one of the family, we want her final resting place to be something better
than a 'knacker'.

What DO people do in this situation?

Thanks in advance :)


Debra Crowe                          Email:crowede@ucs.orst.edu
University Computing Services        Phone: (503)737-2998
Oregon State University
Corvallis, OR 97331
From: lcasey@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Trucking/Trailers
Date: 30 Sep 92 10:08:34 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

The Dodge turbo diesel is available in an extended cab version.  I saw
a dually on display at the Ohio QH Futurity the had the rear seat convertible
into a bed!  Nice looking truck, but I'll stick to the 4WD Dodge.  No duallies!

Leigh



From: kyle@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Kyle Karnosh)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:14:46 GMT
Subject: FORD Truck Recall
Organization: HP Stanford Park - Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian



With the talk of trucks and hauling we've been having of date, I
thought I'd post this information. FORD has issued a recall of some
89-91 trucks (E250, E350, F250, F350 ) for a brake problem.
This used to be as service bulletin but is now a full recall.
If you have one of these trucks, please check with your FORD
service person to see if your truck ID number is one of the
recalled ones, EVEN IF YOU HAVEN'T RECEIVED A RECALL NOTICE.
We are talking brake failure here, nothing to mess around with,
especially when hauling a trailer. I haven't received a recall
notice yet, but my truck was on the list. I happened to hear
about it from someone who had their brakes fail( nothing major
happened luckily). The service to fix the problem takes about
 3 hours at most. 

Just wanted to alert everyone.

Kyle Karnosh
Con Brio Farms
Quality Warmblood Sporthorses
Gilroy, CA
From: reichard@nb.rockwell.com (Diane Reichard)
Subject: Re:  National HS, Nov. 3 thru Nov. 8 
Organization: Rockwell International
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:36:38 GMT


Mary,

Thanks for posting the info. on the National Horse Show.  I was planning
to make a trip back east for the start of foxhunting season and was going
to catch the tail end of WIHS.  It looks like I could also arrange to
catch the World Cup qualifier at the NHS.  This trip is sounding better
all the time........


Diane


I tried sending this to you directly but it bounced.  Is 

       mary@cairo.watson.ibm.com

the correct address for replying to you?
From: kris@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (kris troxel)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 14:05:51 GMT
Subject: Re: Another Try
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian

I ride reining horses, and have done some training also. Sometimes the best
horse for a beginner isn't the most highly trained. A good "finished"
reiner will be highly sensitive to leg and body weight changes. New riders
require a horse with a great deal of forgiveness, particularly in the leg
response area. However, my soapbox has always been that too many new riders,
particularly kids, are placed on partially broke horses that I would never
ride. Usually this is in the name of saving money. I like your idea of the
week tryout period, and would encourage you to get lessons from a competent 
instructor with reining experience during that week. A few pointers may
make all the difference in the success of that week. I recently sold a 5
yr. old AQHA mare that I had ridden for 6 mo. to a 12 year old girl. I had
shown this mare a few times in reining and the only reason I was comfortable
doing this was that the girls uncle rides cutters and the mare was basically
too lazy to make a good reiner. Good luck and I hope this one works out.

Kris Troxel
Boise, Idaho.
From: pallas@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Sarah Pallas)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: sentementality
Date: 6 Oct 1992 20:37:05 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston,Tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu

In article <1992Oct6.175212.2483@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> MAUSEN@vm.ucs.UAlberta.CA writes:

>     What happens to carcasses of horses that vets put down, does
>     anyone know??
I don't know about horses, but when I worked for a small animal vet,
euthanized dogs and cats were cremated en masse by a compnay who
charged for the service.  Clients could ask for indivdual cremation,
and had the option of keeping the ashes.  I imagine that horses are
also cremated because of the legal risk if an owner would find that
the carcass had been sold for meat.  Also, meat coming from a vet is
usually assumed to be infected with a contagious disease by the health
department. 

Sarah Pallas


Newsgroups: rec.equestrian