HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: era@csn.org
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
Subject: REQUEST FOR ASSISTANCE
Keywords: Extremists, Christian Right, Amendment 2
Date: 27 Jan 93 23:11:21 GMT
Reply-To: era@csn.org ()
Organization: Citizens Project; Colorado Springs, CO
Originator: era@teal.csn.org

We of the Citizens Project (Colorado Springs, CO) are looking for people
who could assist us in re-distributing the Citizens Project Newsletter
to non-Internet computer services.  If you have an account on any such
services (CompuServe, FidoNet, Genie, Prodigy, America Online, and others)
and are willing to help us, please let us know via return email to
era@ncar.ucar.edu.

The Citizens Project is a Colorado Springs, CO - based group of volunteers
who seek to prevent extremists from eliminating our fundamental freedoms.
Colorado's Amendments 1 and 2 are the extremists' most obvious successes
to date.      
--
Ed Arnold * Boulder, CO * 303-497-1253(voice,weekday) * 303-494-6949(voice)
internet: era@csn.org * compuserve: internet:era@csn.org * bitnet: era@ncario
-- 
Ed Arnold * Boulder, CO * 303-497-1253(voice,weekday) * 303-494-6949(voice)
internet: era@csn.org * compuserve: internet:era@csn.org * bitnet: era@ncario
From: orwell@erich.triumf.ca (BALDEN, RON)
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
Subject: Re: Call For Discussion - unmoderating misc.activism.progressive
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Date: 22 Jan 1993 17:40 PST
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: erich.triumf.ca
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1993Jan22.022307.27241@mont.cs.missouri.edu>, 
oracle!us.oracle.com!mfriedma@uunet.UU.NET (Michael Friedman) writes...
>I think the recent flap over MIM and misc.activism.progressive clearly
>demonstrates that misc.activism.progressive has become exactly what we
>were told it would not be ... 

Would Michael Friedman care to donate a non-trivial sum (say, fifty dollars)
to MIM, so that those of us who have some doubts that his proposal to
unmoderate misc.activism.progressive was prompted by a deep and
genuine concern for the rights of MIM might thereby be reassured?

Evidently Mr. Friedman feels that the advantages in the mass media
varying between 10 to 1 and 100 to 1 for the promotion of the cause of
corporate/consumer capitalism over possible alternatives is
insufficient. I'll consider supporting Mr. Friedman's call to
unmoderate m.a.p. when Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Michael Parenti,
John Pilger, John Stockwell, etc. appear as much as one-fifth as often
in the mass media as William F. Buckley Jr., George Will, Charles
Krauthammer, Paul Johnson, John McLaughlin, etc., etc., etc., etc.. 

To my mind, a quintessential example of the real point at issue was
provided some years ago when CNN's "Crossfire" was cohosted by
Tom Braden and Robert Novak/Patrick Buchanan.  The killer
was the closing lines, "On the left, Tom Braden.  On the right
Patrick Buchanan."  Tom Braden was an unrepentant ex-CIA officer
(no Agee or Stockwell he) whose CIA work in the fifties involved
the penetration and subversion of European labor unions.  
The "center" of debate calibrated by this closing excluded
the real interests of the majority of the U.S. population. 
The real closing line should have been "On the moderate right,
Tom Braden.  On the far right, Pat Buchanan."

Ron Balden


Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Call For Discussion - unmoderating misc.activism.progressive
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 22 Jan 93 18:16:25

1. Everyone has different ideas about where the center is and what
counts as left and right.  There is one objective measure and
that is public opinion.  If half the population is to the left
of a commentator and half to the right, then he is in the center.
Of course, someone who claims that the population would be on
his side if only people had a proper opportunity to hear him
won't accept that criterion.

2. Mr. Balden refers to "the real interests of the majority of the
U.S. population".  Doubtless he knows their real interests better
than they do, so "the real opinions of the majority of the U.S.
population" is irrelevant to balance in the media.

3. Mr. Balden's "subverting European labor unions" would be called
by others "helping European labor unions resist communism".
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Xref: sparky alt.activism.d:4534 talk.environment:5682 sci.environment:14773
From: jamesh@aifh.ed.ac.uk (James Hammerton)
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d,talk.environment,sci.environment
Subject: Re: 11/92 interview w/Dr. Ernest J. Sternglass, author of "Secret Fallout"
Keywords: someone hasn't been taking their Alzeimer's medicine
Date: 23 Jan 93 19:49:38 GMT
Reply-To: jamesh@aifh.ed.ac.uk (James Hammerton)
Organization: Dept of AI, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <1993Jan21.015635.18905@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>,
constant@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Tino) writes:
# >>>    EJS:  We now estimate a few hundred thousand people have already
died
# >>>    as a result of Three Mile Island and that in the United States
*alone*,
# >
# According to this calculation, there should be NO ONE ALIVE IN THE U.S.,
due
# to natural background radiation.
# 
# Here's the numbers:
# 
# The collective dose of TMI on the U.S.: 3300 person-rem (best estimate)
#                                         2000-5000 person-rem (estimate
range)
# 
# Dr. Sternglass' "death count" from TMI: 300,000+ in 10 years
# 
# 
# 
# The collective dose of natural radiation on U.S. in 10 years: ~700,000,000
rem
# 
# By Sternglass' approximation, the death count from nature:
#                                      70,000,000,000 dead Americans in 10
years
# 
# 
# hmmmm.....
# 

Just a question. Could it be that because we have evolved with natural
background
radiation, we can tolerate the levels that we receive from natural sources,
but
that any additions to this will be more lethal to us? The point being that
these
emissions would seem to come on top of any background stuff, and could
therefore
push us over a dosage which evolutionarily speaking, we have been able to deal
with.

James

-- 
*  James Hammerton               *  If Pascal is equivalent to the     *
*  Email: jamesh@uk.ac.ed.aisb   *  mini-metro,then ML is the concept  *
*                                *  car where steering is done         *
*                                *  recursively using the gearstick.   *
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
From: rhfiii@venus.ycc.yale.edu
Subject: <None>
Organization: Yale Computer Center (YCC)
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:56:42 EDT




Newsgroups: alt.activism.d,talk.environment
From: constant@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Tino)
Subject: Re: speech by Narayan Desai on Hiroshima Day, August 6, 1992
Keywords: liberation from everything nuclear, truth is "classified"
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 17:05:46 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.153419.5478@mont.cs.missouri.edu> dave@ratmandu.esd.sgi.com (dave "who can do? ratmandu!" ratcliffe) writes:
>  talk given by the son of the man who was Gandhi's chief scribe and secretary
>  for 25 years--who grew up in Gandhi's ashram--about nuclear power and 
>  weapons and about how their existence is founded on the truth about their 
>  effects on all life and on Mother Earth herself being hidden and classified 
>  and kept from the people so that death dealing material and death producing 
>  industry is able to continue and continue killing and weakening our 
>  spiritual as well as our physical selves.
>
>   One word I should translate for you, That's the crucial word:  shanti.  
>   shanti is peace.  Many of you know the word.  But here in this song the 
>   refrain is shanti karu:  let there be peace, let there be peace, let 
>   there be peace.  That's the refrain.  And the prayer is to the lord 
>   of life, Jivana (JEE-VA-NA).
>   
>   [several mins of singing]

That's beautiful...*sniff, sniff* (tear rolling down cheek)

Tino
-- 
     "Here are the young men, the weight on their shoulders..." - J.D.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Purdue University School of Nuclear Engineering
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d,talk.environment,sci.environment
From: russ@pmafire.inel.gov (Russ Brown)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 22:50:09 GMT
Organization: WINCO
Subject: Re: 11/92 interview w/Dr. Ernest J. Sternglass, author of "Secret Fallout"
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Organization: WINCO
Keywords: someone hasn't been taking their Alzeimer's medicine

In article <1993Jan23.194938@aifh.ed.ac.uk> jamesh@aifh.ed.ac.uk (James Hammerton) writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.015635.18905@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>,
>constant@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Tino) writes:
># >>>    EJS:  We now estimate a few hundred thousand people have already
>died
># >>>    as a result of Three Mile Island and that in the United States
>*alone*,
># >
># According to this calculation, there should be NO ONE ALIVE IN THE U.S.,
>due
># to natural background radiation.
># 
># Here's the numbers:
># 
># The collective dose of TMI on the U.S.: 3300 person-rem (best estimate)
>#                                         2000-5000 person-rem (estimate
>range)
># 
># Dr. Sternglass' "death count" from TMI: 300,000+ in 10 years
># 
># 
># 
># The collective dose of natural radiation on U.S. in 10 years: ~700,000,000
>rem
># 
># By Sternglass' approximation, the death count from nature:
>#                                      70,000,000,000 dead Americans in 10
>years
># 
># 
># hmmmm.....
># 
>
>Just a question. Could it be that because we have evolved with natural
>background
>radiation, we can tolerate the levels that we receive from natural sources,
>but
>that any additions to this will be more lethal to us? The point being that
>these
>emissions would seem to come on top of any background stuff, and could
>therefore
>push us over a dosage which evolutionarily speaking, we have been able to deal
>with.
>
>James
>
No, that is not sensible.  Natural background varies widely from
location to location, by a factor of 2 in the U.S.  Other parts of the
world have very high cosmic and terrestrial doses without any apparent
health effects.  

The highest historical (40 years) leukemia mortality rates in the U.S.
(leukemia being the most radiogenic of cancer types) are not found in
the highest radiation areas.  In fact, the intermountain area has
somewhat lower rates than the U.S. average.  Other etiologic factors
appear to be more important.
From: rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller)
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
Subject: Re: Call For Discussion - unmoderating misc.activism.progressive
Date: 22 Jan 1993 16:05:52 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu

In article <1993Jan22.022307.27241@mont.cs.missouri.edu>, oracle!us.oracle.com!mfriedma@uunet.UU.NET (Michael Friedman) writes:

[Background material deleted for breviety]

> 
> Therefore, I think that misc.activism.progressive should be
> unmoderated.
> 
> Comments, please?

Certainly. We just went through the unmoderation flap on another group a few
weeks (months?) and the consensus is that there is no mechanism to either
unmoderated or remoderate a newsgroup with the consent of the current moderator
Remember, the 'vote' is simply data to news administrators on how to configure
the news and this unmoderation would generate a fair amount of discussion
and flames. The worst thing we could do is to have it 'pass' and not be 
accepted by all sites. Thus we would have the spector of some sites marking 
the group as unmoderated and some as moderated---instant chaos. 

My best advise is to ignore the group. The one thing I could say is for the
moderators of the group to not repost articles from the group to other groups
without also posting to the m.a.p group. 


-- 
Richard H. Miller                 Email: rick@bcm.tmc.edu
Asst. Dir. for Technical Support  Voice: (713)798-3532
Baylor College of Medicine        US Mail: One Baylor Plaza, 302H
                                           Houston, Texas 77030
From: phs265y@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
Subject: Re: Macedonia is GREEK!
Date: 22 Jan 93 09:40:45 +1100
Distribution: world
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia

In article <ellis.727579037@scorpion.ac.cowan.edu.au>, ellis@cowan.edu.au (E.KARANIKOLAOU) writes:
> The Northern Region of Greece is known as Macedonia and the majority
> of the people in this region are Greek!
> 
> If one of the former Yugoslavian territories want's to be called 
> Macedonia well fine but that does not entitle the Yugoslav Macedonians
> to a slice of Northern Greece.
> 
> HANDS OFF GREECE !


         Unfortunately your nationalism makes you blind. It is in fact Greece
which has designs on Macedonia. Why do you think Greece is so friendly with the
Serbs ?  So that they can carve up Macedonia just as the Croats and the Serbs
are carving up Bosnia at the moment.

         Nationalism takes noone but the ruling class forward. Greek,
Macedonian, Croat, Bosnian, Serb workers - none of these has any real 
interest in shooting each other.


                                Tony Hartin
                                ISO, Australia
From: bane@vtx.ma.man.ac.uk (Michael!)
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
Subject: Re: Swords into Ploughshares: British weapons factory attacked
Date: 22 Jan 93 00:34:43 GMT
Reply-To: bane@vtx.ma.man.ac.uk
Distribution: uk
Organization: Magic Michael's Mushroom Factory.

In article <1993Jan20.075730.3991@mont.cs.missouri.edu>, rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu (Rich Winkel) writes:
|> /** reg.easttimor: 349.0 **/
|> ** Topic: BAe weapons factory attacked **
|> ** Written 11:10 am  Jan 17, 1993 by gn:tapol in cdp:reg.easttimor **
|> British Aerospace weapons factory attacked
|>  
|> The following Press Release was issued on 7 January by British
|> Aerospace Ploughshares. (Slightly abridged.)
|>  
|> Note: Chris Cole in now on remand in Bedford Prison. At a
|> court hearing in Stevenage on 14 January, an application for
|> bail was refused; the prosecution argued that he might repeat
|> the offence or fail to attend a future court hearing. Anyone
|> wishing to keep in touch with BAe Ploughshares should write to
|> them at: c/o NVRN, 162 Holloway Road. London N7 8DQ. TAPOL
|>  
|>                    -----------------------
|>  
|> SWORDS INTO PLOUGHSHARES: THE CONVERSION HAS BEGUN
|>  
|> At 4 am on 6 January 1993, Chris Cole, a christian peace
|> activist from Oxford, entered a British Aerospace (BAe)
|> weapons factory in Stevenage, Herts, and used household
|> hammers to disarm nosecones for the European Fighter Aircraft,
|> for Hawk strike attack aircraft and other militer equipment.
|> BAe has agreed to sell 24 Hawk aircraft to Indonesia, for use
|> against the people of East Timor.
|>  
|> Chris was arrested after an hour, after he had visited four
|> buildings. The damage, according to the Crown Prosecution, is
|> valued as at least 475,000. The total could well be twice
|> that figure. The damage Chris has done may well have set back
|> the European Fighter Aircraft Programme and the Hawk
|> production process. This delay could well save many East
|> Timorese lives and strengthen the case for cancellation of the
|> deal.
|>  
|> Chris poured his own blood onto equipment in the Reinforced
|> and Microwave Plastics building where all BAe missiles and
|> aircraft are made. After his arrest, his Oxford home was
|> raided by the police who took away many of his belongings.
|>  
|> Chris was wearing a white coat with "BAe Bomb Disposal"
|> written on the back and had a BAe-style identity card on it
|> saying, "Chris Cole Disarmer". He left a statement at the site
|> which linked his actions to the christian feast of the
|> Epiphany on 6 January. He wrote: "The Epiphany remembers when
|> three men presented gifts to the infant Jesus. My gift of
|> disarmament is for all infants who are threatened by BAe
|> weapons, from Northern Ireland to East Timor."
|> ** End of text from cdp:reg.easttimor **



People might be interested in a meeting about this in Manchester on 16 Feb 93,
in Quaker/Friends meeting house - more details available upon email request.


Michael Bane
From: keithk@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Keith Krueger)
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
Subject: Re: Call For Discussion - unmoderating misc.activism.progressive
Date: 23 Jan 1993 22:25:44 GMT
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cory.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan22.022307.27241@mont.cs.missouri.edu> oracle!us.oracle.com!mfriedma@uunet.UU.NET (Michael Friedman) writes:
>I think the recent flap over MIM and misc.activism.progressive clearly
>demonstrates that misc.activism.progressive has become exactly what we
>were told it would not be - a megaphone for Harel to promulgate views
>he agrees with while muffling those he disagrees with.
>
>I feel very strongly that this is contrary to the basic spirit of
>Usenet - free, unfettered debate.
>
>Therefore, I think that misc.activism.progressive should be
>unmoderated.

I don't find MAP to be perfect, but it does provide generally progressive
viewpoints without the constant bickering that goes on in alt.activism
and many other unmoderated groups.  If it were unmoderated, it 
would be of poorer quality.  I'd rather read a group with an editor I
sometimes disagree with than one with no editor and a very low
information content.

If you don't want to read MAP, don't read it.  If you can't get the
moderators to post your messages, post to alt.activism or start your own
group, moderated or unmoderated.  Making MAP unmoderated is a silly
idea.  We already have ONE unmoderated activism group (alt.activism).
If you don't agree with something on MAP, post your gripe to
alt.activism and have a discussion there (or alt.activism.d, I suppose).

Keep the MAP moderators.

-Keith
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d,talk.environment
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: our plutonium economy & a free democracy are a contradiction in terms
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 22 Jan 93 10:03:38

The number of people who have been inconvenienced by U.S. Government
protection of plutonium from theft is far less that the number
inconvenienced by U.S. Government efforts to protect the President
from assassination.

My only inconvenience on this score has been that I have to stay
in unclassified areas when I visit LLNL.  Big deal!  Some people
exaggerate to the point of being silly.

--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
From: caliban@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (James)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: Libertarians and Labor Unions
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:36:39 GMT
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida

Timothy.J.Young@dartmouth.edu (Timothy J. Young) writes:

>  It seems that those who may need government help either now or some
> point in the future would not be joining Libertarian ranks. I don't
> think that's an irrational assumption. Ronald Reagan (I know he wasn't
> a Libertarian, but he favored "small government" too) once said
> something  about everyone having the right to be a millionare. It
> doesn't take a Rhodes Scholar to figure out 
> that the right to be a millionare means next to nothing if you're
> struggling to get by. (I'm just a college freshman, and I managed to
> figure that out.)

According to a 1984 study by the University of Michigan, 
there is a distinct economic- and educational-class connotation
to ideology.  For example, authoritarianism predominates among
low-income and less-educated groups, but is "insignificant" 
in higher-income and better-educated groups.  
"The strength of libertarian support is the reverse: The
proportion of libertarian supporters decreases as income level
increases . . . Support for libertarian ideas is directly
related to educational attainment; people with less than a
high school education include almost no libertarians, but
one-third of people with college degrees or beyond are 
libertarians."  (Maddox and Lilie, _Beyond Liberal and 
Conservative: Reassessing the Political Spectrum_, Washington,
D.C.: Cato Institute, 1984.)

Perhaps people become libertarians because they are rich, or
better-educated.  Perhaps not.  What's the difference?  After 
all, every ideology serves the interest of some group.  Does
this make it illegitimate?  The important question is whether
the ideology is right or wrong, not whose ox is being gored.
My family is Jewish, but I oppose the Neo-Nazi movement in
Europe not from self-interest but because, as a libertarian,
I am committed to an ideology of tolerance and justice.
It doesn't matter whose ox is being gored: injustice is WRONG.

> The laws of the free market encourage irresponsible exploitation of the
> environment .  This is one example of what government is for ; to
> supplement market laws with a rational framework that prevents many of
> the problems that the market itself cannot. 

Libertarians are among the strongest defenders of the environment.
After all, as the Libertarian Party platform points out, 
"Pollution of other people's property is a violation of their
rights" -- and, as even our enemies admit, we are the strongest
defenders of individual rights.  

Government environmental regulations give big business a "license
to pollute" by setting arbitrary amounts of "acceptable" pollution
and allocating the right to pollute according to political influence.
Libertarians support a "zero-tolerance" policy on pollution,
and would force these environmental criminals to either clean
up their act or else pay for the damage done to the environment
so that it would be repaired or otherwise compensated for.
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: aforum@moose.uvm.edu (autonome forum)
Subject: Grand Jury resister needs support!
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:23:03 GMT

subject: Jonathan Paul needs your support!
posted by: autonome forum
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
February 13: Day of Solidarity and Action for Jonathan Paul

source:   United Anarchist Front
          PO Box 1115
          Whittier, CA  90609
          
     tel: 310.947.1991 (Chris)
          310.694.5485 (Michael)
     fax: 310.696.8119 (attn. United Anarchist Front)

To increase the pressure on nation-wide grand jury
interrorgations of alleged members of the Animal Liberation Front
(ALF), an international campaign has been proposed to show
disgust and anger at the United States' form of criminalizing
progressive movements (ie, students' movements, the civil rights
movement, anti-war movements, native struggles, etc.).

On the local level, the possibilities are countless:
demonstrations at federal buildings, street theatre, leafletting,
letter-writing, city art, etc.

Also, writing to Jonathan Paul directly is very important.
Jonathan was jailed on Election Day in November for refusing to
testify before a federal grand jury. Letters of support would be
very welcome.

     Jonathan Paul
     Spokane County Jail
     1100 W. Mallon
     Spokane, WA  99260

Also, please send reports of local actions to "Love and Rage" and
other anarchist/progressive publications. Communication, as we
all know, if fundamental!

     Love and Rage
     Box 3, Prince St. Stn.
     NY, NY  10012

Solidarity Is Strength!!
Free All Political Prisoners!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                     autonome forum: aforum@moose.uvm.edu
                          "solidarity is a weapon!"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.activism