From: jamesou@ZYGOTE.HSC.USC.EDU (James Ou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Parents
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:43:55 GMT


In <133219@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>, tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov
writes:

>In article <13AUG199210014244@venus.lerc.nasa.gov> fsbrn12@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Andrew Hsu) writes:
>->jamesou@ZYGOTE.HSC.USC.EDU (James Ou) writes...
>->>
>->>What?????  We raise kids because we love them, not because we
>->>want them to pay us back later on.
>->
>->I'm not sure whom you are representing when you say "we". Have you ever
>->heard of the old saying: "Yang3 er2 fang2 lao3"? Clearly, according to
>->the Chinese tradition, "we" raise kids not only because "we" love them,
>->but also because "we" want somebody to take care of us when "we" are old.

I was about to stop following up on this topic due to possible
"generation gap" that I might have with other netters. But, looks
like I can't drop the topic yet (i.e., Yu4 Ba4 Bu4 Neng2). :-)

Yes, the phrase you quoted was a common Chinese saying which I
also quoted in my response to Barbara's original article. The
question is: do you think that phrase is right?  When I said
"we", I was speaking from the heart of a parent.

>And for males, "we" have to raise kids (boys) in order to "Chuan2 Zong1
>Jie1 Dai4". :-)  IMHO, I think this is a ridiculous tradition - why do
>"we" need boys to "Chuan2 Zong1 Jie1 Dai4"?  What do you guys think?

This is a Chinese tradition and religion which started long
before Confucius was born. Ancient Chinese religion believed that
spirits did exist after people died. Thus, it was important to
worship ancestors to make sure that they would not be hungry in
the unknown world (Yin1 Jian1). Thus, Confucius said, "Bu2 Xiao4
You3 San1, Wu2 Hou4 Wei2 Da4." (There are three things that will
render a person impious. The worst one is having no son to carry
the family name.) He said that because, based on ancient Chinese
custom, a married woman would worship her husband's ancestors. In
Chinese history, when a person's family was going to be
exterminated due to serious crimes, the person often said,
"Wu2[me] Bu4[no] Xue3[blood] Shi2[eat] Yi2." It means that there
would be no one to worship him and he would have no food to eat
after he died.)

Of course, to an atheist, or any other person not believing in
this type of Chinese religion, he/she will likely think this
"Chuan2 Zong1 Jie1 Dai4" business is rediculous.

>Anyway, it's quite unrealistic to expect kids grown up in US to take
>care of "us" when "we" are old.  The most "we" can expect is for them
>to visit "us" then, but even that is too much to ask for sometimes...

That is correct. From a parent point of view, I will be very
happy, if my children come to visit me often after they move out.
But, from a child point of view, I will not consider that
visiting my elderly parents is doing them a favor. After all, they
spent all those years taking care of me with love.


*****Confucius said, "Shu4 Yu4 Jing4 Er2 Feng1 Bu4 Zhi3, Zi3 Yu4
Yang3 Er2 Qin1 Bu2 Dai4."
(The tree wants to stop moving, but the wind does not allow the
tree to do so. The son wants to take care of his parents, but his
parents were long deceased.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china