HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pazur@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (scott.m.pazur)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Golf Clubs For Sale
Date: 9 Sep 92 13:02:51 GMT
Distribution: nj
Organization: AT&T


 
Dunlop DDH II black graphite irons (3 thru PW).  Used only this season. 
Nevada Bob's Price: $470 (last week)  My price: $275 
 
If you buy before the end of September, I'll throw in the matching 
sand wedge (steel-shaft version). 
 
Call Scott at 908-576-2469 daytime if you're interested. 
  
 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: koenig@convex.com (Mark Koenig)
Subject: Re: Rules question
Keywords: O. B., Rules
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:17:26 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

twete@tweety.wr.tek.com (Bob Twete) writes:

>Thanks for the help. I am pretty sure I got the correct answer. I actually
>simplified this a bit. The ball was found after I had declared the ball
>lost. So I was stuck with a lost ball pentalty anyway. I just wanted to
>know what I should do if I had found the ball first. 

Ok, folks....please read the above....now re-read it....Once *you* declare
the ball lost, it does not matter if it is found in the fence, on the fence,
under the fence (you get the picture).  The ball is lost.  

Mark
--
Mark Koenig, Optimization Specialist
Convex Computer Corporation         koenig@convex.com
P.O. Box 833851  M.S. SAL           Phone: (214) 497-4298
Richardson, Texas  75083-3851       FAX:   (214) 497-4550
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: cdash@moet.cs.colorado.edu (Charles Shub)
Subject: Re: Is golf that much different of a sport?
Keywords: etiquette
Organization: University of Colorado at Colorado Springs
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:57:51 GMT

I wrote...
=> In stroke play, if one observes a rule about to be broken, one
=> can do (legally) one of two things:
=> a) one can inform the person about to break the rule of the potential
=>    infraction.  This is NOT giving advice, but is "INFORMATION ON THE
=>    RULES" as permitted in rule 8.
=> b) one can elect to allow the rule to be broken, and then invoke the
=>    appropriate penalty.

Mike Zimmer augmented my posting with...
=>  And as Tom Watson says in his book on rules, option b) is very poor
=>  etiquette and ought to be used only by players wearing Raiders tank
=>  tops and sucking on a can of Pabst.  On the other hand, such players
=>  probably think that rules are for wimps anyway...

and Bob Twete asked in part...
=>  I must admit I question if I could really deal with the etiquette part
=>  here. If I am playing a tournament and going head to head with someone
=>  for the lead, I think I might wimp out here and not tell the player
=>  they are about to break a rule.
=>  
=>  I bring this up as I struggle with this situation. Is golf that much
=>  different than other sports? I would never think to tell an opponent to
=>  not step on the plate when hitting (an automatic out) nor would I tell
=>  an opponent their foot is on the line during a free-throw (an possible
=>  violation). In soccer there is a play called an off-side trap designed
=>  to MAKE the opponents violate. If I am in a friendly game, I would
=>  certainly point these things out but when winning (or money) is on the
=>  line, I guess I might revert back to old habits. I guess I am a slob
=>  but this is a tough one to figure out.
=>  
=>  Golf is considered a gentleman's game. If the game holds itself to
=>  higher standards than other sports does that imply that other sports
=>  are less than gentleman's games? That I would have a REAL problem
=>  with.  I hope this initiates an interesting debate.

Once again i'm faced with the "gee i wish i saved that posting"
feeling.  Over a year ago, there was some debate here about rules and
friendly games and so on, and there was an outstanding post by
somebody using a sailing analogy about how the rules DEFINE the
competition.  That post is probably somewhat applicable.

A rather subtle difference exists here.  Drawing people off sides in
soccer is a legitimate tactic of that game.  I personally believe
there is a difference among
    a) tactics designed to force an opponent to blunder,
    b) violation of a rule to obtain a competitive advantage, and
    c) inadvertant violation of a rule.
Golf, by and large, makes no distinction between the latter two cases.
I'd feel better beating someone fair and square than by violating a rule,
even inadvertently.
-- 

charlie shub  cdash@cs.Colorado.EDU       -or-         (719) 593-3492     
on leave at the University of Iowa  cdash@cs.uiowa.edu (319) 335-0739
From: "kathy lessa" <kathy.lessa@execnet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: 5 re: divots.....
Date: 10 Sep 92 02:45:05 EST
Reply-To: "kathy lessa" <kathy.lessa@execnet.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Executive Networks Information

2K>I disagree!  I happen to take a few practice swings at each hole.
2K>I like to, and it makes me feel more confident.  Anyone playing in
2K>a group behind me who tries to rush me just may end up eating
2K>one of their own clubs (I wouldn't treat mine so badly).
2K>I mean it, too, so let someone try.  I pay my greens fees every
2K>weekend just like everyone else, and have the right to play at `
2K>my own pace.  If that includes practice swings on each hole, or even
2K>if I decided to mentally adjust myself for a few minutes with silent
2K>contemplation, that's my own choice.  Interfere with that at your
2K>own risk.

Was that you that teed off before my group last weekend?  You know, the
day we played that zippy little 5 1/2 hour game? ;}

Seriously, I do agree with you that you should be able to do whatever the
heck you want to do before swinging... EXCEPT when you drop behind the
four-hour game pace.  

There's one particular hole at the course I play where on any given
weekend, you'll see 6, 7, maybe *10* carts backed up by that time, because
of people who decide they need to toss up a grass leaf to check the wind
between every swing, wait to select clubs until everyone on the fairway
has collapsed from boredom, and take fifteen practice swings.  If you keep
up with the 4-hour pace, then I say more power to you, swing all you want. 
But if you're in the "I don't give a damn HOW many people are backed up
waiting behind me, I'm the most important person on THIS golf course" set,
then I hope you *don't* play at my course!
---
  DeLuxe 1.25 #89  I can hit the woods great; getting out's murder!
--
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: john@meaddata.com (John Manion)
Subject: Re: Rules poser
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:38:35 GMT

In article <ILH.92Sep10094136@winnie-the-pooh.lcs.mit.edu>, ilh@lcs.mit.edu (Lee Hetherington) writes:
|> According to Rule 25-1b regarding taking relief from casual water...
|> 
|> (ii) In a Hazard [not water hazard]: If the ball lies in or touches a
|>      hazard, the player shall lift and drop the ball either:
|> 
|>   (a) without penalty, in the hazard, as near as possible to the spot
|>       where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole, on ground which
|>       affords maximum available relief from the condition; or
|>   (b) under penalty of one stroke, outside the hazard, keeping the
|>       point where the ball lay directly between the hole and the spot
|>       on which the ball is dropped.
|> 
|> So, take relief in the bunker with no penalty, or drop outside
|> (behind) it with a one stroke penalty.
|> 
|> --
|> 
|>                                 Lee Hetherington
|>                                 ilh@lcs.mit.edu

What do you do if the entire bunker is filled with water?  Doesn't seem
fair to have to take a stroke due to poor course maintenance.

P.S. This has happened to me.  I dropped behind the bunker and took no penalty.

-- 
|John T Manion      | What I like about    |                 (513) 865-1773|   
|Mead Data Central  | Beer is you basically|   Legal Collection Engineering|
|P.O. Box 933       | Drink it, then you   |              john@meaddata.com|
|Dayton, Ohio  45401| order another one... |        ...!uunet!meaddata!john|
                             -- Dave Barry
From: mcole@pearl.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: 3 club tournament--which three?
Date: 9 Sep 92 21:31:08 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA

In article <1992Sep9.140034.25278@csc.ti.com>, jimv@dadd.ti.com (Jim Vahsen,VAHZ,) writes:
> In article 151047DLUX@MAINE.MAINE.EDU, DLUX@MAINE.MAINE.EDU () writes:
>>I think anybody taking a wood is crazy
> 
> Well, we all have our opinions, and you're not the first person to call me
> that (I'm married..)  8)
> 
> I'd rather stay home if I can't DRIVE the ball off the tee.  NO, I can't reach
> many greens on my DRIVE.  But, YES I can reach most par 4's with a drive and 
> a 9-iron.  So,  plghhhhh!!!      8)   8)
> 
>>I think you are just as crazy if you do not take your putter.
> 
> Wow, we agree on something....
> 
>>The money club in this tourney is going to be a short iron: 9, PW, SW
> 
> Isn't it always...
> 
>>Keep them down the middle!
> 
> The middle of what?  8)   Unfortunately, I don't hit as many fairways as I'd 
> like too, but I seem happy to sacrifice a little accuracy for an easier approach
> shot (9-iron vs. 5-iron).  Plus, on my muni's, I prefer hitting out of the rough
> over the hardpan fairways...
> ---

I recently played a very tough course that forced me to hit an iron off the tee
most of the time (I only hit the driver 5 times/18 holes.).   I surprised 
myself with the way I played.  I am about a 12 cap and I shot a 78!  I am
convinced that the reason for this was approaching from the fairway most of
the time.  I'd rather hit a 7iron from the center of the fairway, than a 
9iron from the right/left rough.  It really worked for me.  This course was
no sissy either.  I usually play on a muni 113 slope/5900yds.   This course
was a 125 slope/6300yd (from the whites).  Anyway if I were to play in a
three club tourney I would take 4iron, pw, putter.  I think the guy that
says money is made on and around the green is right.  My 2 cents.

Michael P Cole
From: waid@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu (James Waid  ECE-GRAD)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: PGA Scores
Date: 14 Sep 92 18:17:29 GMT
Organization: College Of Engg. & Tech., Ohio University. Athens

Hey all,
I haven't been reading this group.  I have a question.  Does anyone
post scores for PGA events in this news group?  If not, where on the
net can I get them.  Reply via email please...



-- 



To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before..........
From: ilh@lcs.mit.edu (Lee Hetherington)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: ETIQUITTE
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:39:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: winnie-t.ILH.92Sep15153956
	<1992Sep14.182732.860@bmerh85.bnr.ca> <BuMozz.8CB@nntp-sc.Intel.COM>
Reply-To: ilh@lcs.mit.edu
Organization: MIT/LCS Spoken Language Systems

In article <BuMozz.8CB@nntp-sc.Intel.COM>
bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) writes:
   Recognizing an infraction and failing to mention it is
   against the rules, but only if one fails to mention it
   while it can legally be corrected (with or without the
   proper penalties); i.e., the partner has until Anton plays
   his next shot to make the call.

Actually, in this case, the infraction can be corrected (with the
two-stroke penalty) until the player tees off from the next hole (or
leaves the 18th green).  The strokes played with the improperly teed
ball do not count.  So, if I play from out of the teeing area all the
way to sinking my putt and then realize my mistake, I can go back to
the tee shooting three.  (Rule 11-4b.)

I'm pretty sure this is similar to playing a wrong ball.  Time spent
playing a wrong ball does not count towards your five minute limit for
searching, either.

Of course, I don't think I'd very much like to go back to the tee!  On
a crowded course, simply adding two to my score would probably be
adequate assuming that teeing a few inches in front of the markers
didn't help me too much, thus speeding up play.
--

                                Lee Hetherington
                                ilh@lcs.mit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: maceache@fox.nstn.ns.ca (Tim Maceachern)
Subject: Re: Rules question
Keywords: O. B., Rules
Organization: NSTN Network Operations Centre, Nova Scotia, Canada
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:11:11 GMT

twete@tweety.wr.tek.com (Bob Twete) writes:



>Here is a situation that happened to me ealier today. I am playing a
>par 4 with O.B. to the left. I am left handed and I tend to slice.  My
>second shot takes off like a rocket, takes a hard left turn, hits and
>sticks in the fence.  The fence marks the O.B. line. There are no white
>markers and the card notes that the fence is O. B. The ball is found
>and identified as mine.

>Question #1:
>Is the ball O.B.?

No.  The ball would have to be all the way out to be O.B.

>Question #2:
>If the ball is not O.B. what can I do?

You can attempt to play it where it lies (stuck in the fence).  I wouldn't
advise it.  You can drop it within 2 club lengths, not nearer the hole, for
a one stroke penalty.  You can take it back to where you hit the second shot,
drop it for one stroke.  Third, if it is possible to take the ball straight 
back from the hole and drop it while remaining on the course you can do that for
one stroke.

>I did hit a provisional, played the provisional and took a *.

Yes.  When you found the first ball not O.B. your provisional ball was dead.
At that point you had to revert to playing the first ball again.  If you
continued playing the provisional you did not complete the hole and must
take an X, or a DNF in a tournament.

By the way, if you do decide to pick the ball out of the fence and walk back,
please be courteous enough to let the group behind you through.  You can 
play your shot up with them...

>P. S. -  I really enjoy hearing from the folks out of the U.S.

>Thanks for the help,
>RT
>--------------------------------------------------
>Bob Twete                      twete@tweety.WR.TEK.COM
>Prism Engineering              503-629-3147
>Tektronix Inc                  Beaverton, OR    
>--------------------------------------------------

I think those are the right answers...

*******************************************************************
*         Tim MacEachern         * Tim_MacEachern@hawk.nstn.ns.ca *
*     Software Kinetics Ltd.     *  or maceache@hawk.nstn.ns.ca   *
* Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada *                                *
*           Opinions expressed are the author's only              *
*******************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: john@sequent.com (John Vander Borght)
Subject: Re: Rule that I'd like to see changed
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: sqnt
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 20:38:39 GMT

The rule I'd like to eliminate is the restriction on not being able to use
a provisional on an unplayable lie.  There is a local rule in the book that
allows the playing of a provisional when you there is a water hazard that
you might not be able to see if you went into and it just says that if the
ball is in the hazard, you have less options (play it or use the
provisional only.)  I think the same should be true of an unplayable lie vs
a lost ball.  If I hit one deep into a dense jungle where it might be lost
or it might be unplayable, and I hit a provisional I have to abandon the
provisional if I find the ball and decide the ball is unplayable.  It seems
that the rule could be changed (or a local rule adopted) to say I have to
either play the ball or use the provisional (eliminate the other two options.)

There is a place at my home club where the first 200 yards down the left
side of the fairway are jungle.  About 50% of the time you go in there, it
is a lost ball, 25% of the time unplayable and 25% playable.   If I hit a
ball into it, hit a provisional (in case it is lost), walk down the hill
and find it, but it is unplayable, I usually can't drop within two club
lengths, can't go backwards keeping the point of the ball between myself
and the hole so I have to hike back up the hill and play another ball.
This seems silly when there is a perfectly good ball in play out there
somewhere.

Let me play the provisional, but remove my other two options (even if they
could have been useful in this case.)

John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com
-- 
"Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!"
John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com
From: us267384@mmm.serc.3m.com (Steven M. Anastasi)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: no excuse for slow play
Date: 11 Sep 92 13:56:21 GMT
Organization: 3M - St. Paul, MN  55144-1000 US

From article <1992Sep11.123346.14303@sei.cmu.edu>, by ear@sei.cmu.edu (Eugene Rindels):
> 
> There is no excuse for slow play and you don't have to play good to play fast.
> 
> I wish all courses would be marshaled.  If the people that were in charge of
> courses in this country  were as concerned about the quality of your round of
> golf as they are about the quality of their turf slow play would be none
> existent.  
>
.... much deleted ....

But, lets get marshalls with functioning brains.  We have a marshall
who's sole duty (obviously) is to punch your ticket and empty
garbage cans at tees.  

Once we had 5 guys at the 1st tee.  We split into a threesome and a twosome.
After a couple holes of waiting together at the next tee, we rejoined
and played as a 5-some.  We kept up and had to wait for the group
in front of us.  Behind us was another 4-some that seldom had
to wait for us, if they did, it was because of backlog.  

Here comes the marshall, weaving toward the 5th tee box in search of
unpunched tickets and a few paper scraps to fulfill is trash quota
for the hour.  He looked at us and his face turned white seeing
5 (FIVE!) people on the tee.  We explained, blah blah blah we are keeping
up blah blah.  NO, club rules, dictate no fivesomes.  Split up or you're
off.  Fine.  I stayed back and the foursome behind us had to wait
at every tee after that. 

Just a steam vent. 


-- 
Steve Anastasi	
smanastasi@mmm.com
St. Paul, Minnesota
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: koenig@convex.com (Mark Koenig)
Subject: Re: ETIQUITTE
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13:04:15 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

crisar@rulcvx.LeidenUniv.nl (Anton van Rosmalen) writes:

>Playing the local club tournemant , last sunday i boo-boo ed on the
>second hole and teed - off a couple off incches in front off the marker
>one playing partner immediatly after completing my swing corrected me 
>So i gather he knew i was in error but elected not to warn me.....
>what is the concensus on the net on this subject .
>cheers 

Tony, golf is a gentleman's game, if you know you broke the rule, you broke
the rule.  Your playing partner (if he was a true gentleman) should have
advised you out of generosity, however, he is not required to do so.

Take your lumps, lick your wounds and learn from the experience.

Good Putting!
Mark
--
Mark Koenig, Optimization Specialist
Convex Computer Corporation         koenig@convex.com
P.O. Box 833851  M.S. SAL           Phone: (214) 497-4298
Richardson, Texas  75083-3851       FAX:   (214) 497-4550
From: dannya@ESD.3Com.COM (Danny Alvendia)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Club Position on the Backswing
Date: 9 Sep 92 21:29:28 GMT
Organization: 3Com Corporation


 How important is the club position at the end of the backswing?i

 I have been told that the shaft on a driver should be between
 your head and the right shoulder. (Upright swing)

 Others suggest the shaft to be slightly below the right shoulder. (Flat swing)

 What seems to be more logical is the downswing. As long as you meet
 the ball as square as you can get with the clubface, does it matter how
 and where your get the club at the top? Miller Barber and Doug Sanders are
 good examples of unorthodox swingers. Also Chi Chi Rodriguez.

 I tried to consciously keep my left arm straight on the backswing and, boy,
 it does put a lot of strain on the left arm and left side of the body. I also
 tried to simply drag the club about 4-6 inches straight then just bring the
 club on top as far as I can on the backswing with more consistent results.
 Of course the downswing must be the same, at least I try to make it the same.
 At the top of my backswing, I pull the club down with my left arm and continue
 on the inside path as long as I can and rotate my arms on impact. I get a draw
 but if I don't extend I get a mean hook bordering on a duck hook. With this
 backswing though, I feel less strain on my back, sides, and arms. 

 Tell me, is this just a fluke that I feel or is the downswing the real key to
 a more consistent game.

 Could this be the making of a NEW SECRET TO GOLF video? :-)    

 /Danny
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: bohdan.kiszczuk@rose.com (bohdan kiszczuk)
Subject: Canadian Open day 2
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 23:12:58 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 09-11-92 18:09
Hi all,

Conditions today: sunny, winds 12-15 mph, fairways soft. Standings as 
of 6 PM local. The cut currently stands at +3 but will probably go to 
+4.

Bruce Lietzke     -9    low round of the day 64
Greg Norman       -5    shot 66 today. Is the Shark back ?
Nick Price        -5
Don Pooley        -5
Fred Couples      -4
Fran Quinn        -4
Jay Don Blake     -4  after 17
Lee Janzen        -3
Corey Pavin       -3
M. Calcavecchia   -3
Stan Utley        -3
David Frost       -3
Greg Twiggs       -3
Curtis Strange    -2
Jay Delsing       -2
Mark Wiebe        -2
Dillard Pruitt    -2        17
Mike Hulbert      -1
John Daly         -1
Tom Purtzer       -1
Mark McCumber     -1
Kenny Perry       -1
Tom Sieckman      -1
Leonard Thompson  -1
Dan Halldorson     E
Bobby Clampett     E
Keith Clearwater   E
Larry Mize         E
Loren Roberts      E
Joey Sindelar      E
Craig Stadler      E
Jim Thorpe         E
Paul Azinger       E        17
Carl Cooper        E        14
Jerry Anderson    +1
David Edwards     +1
John Inman        +1
Mark O'Meara      +1
Craig Parry       +1
Ted Schulz        +1
Bob Tway          +1
Denis Watson      +1

---
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