HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: melstien@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (michael.l.elstien)
Subject: Re: Travelog: Buzzing New York
Summary: Hudson river tour altitude
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:46:26 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.184655.22804@eddie.mit.edu>, ronnie@eddie.mit.edu (Ron Schnell) writes:
> Just another angle to add:
> 
>    Another way to do this is the "inside the TCA" route.  NY approach is
> more than happy to give you a hudson tour as long as LGA isn't westbound,
> and it isn't "rush hour".  I usually phone first just to let them know
> that I'll be requesting it, and that makes them even more happy to
> accommodate.  Of course this means you are at 2,000 instead of < 1,000,
> but I actually like the view better.  Same tour, including the circling of the
> statue.
> 
> #Ron
> (ronnie@eddie.mit.edu)

Whenever I take this tour, ATC usually gives me 1,300 or 1,400 MSL.
I personally like flying over Newark Airport 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: hopkins@gvlf9-o.gvl.unisys.com (Bill Hopkins)
Subject: Re: prevalence of engine failures
Reply-To: hopkins@gvl.unisys.com
Organization: Paramax Systems Corp (A Unisys Company), Great Valley Labs, PA
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:49:50 GMT

In article <92204.174222ROPBB@CUNYVM.BITNET> ROPBB@CUNYVM.BITNET (Bliss B. Siman) writes:

> I may be in the wrong place, but I hope you guys will put up with me. I
> am a very fearful flyer faced with a trip to Barcelona on Friday and
> just discovered the plane is a 767 which I am told has only two engines.

A note on rec.aviation culture:

Oshkosh is coming up and here's a chance to talk about airplanes (any
type).  But the comments on this thread lack a certain awareness of
what's going on in rest of the world.  This poor soul is being forced
to go to Barcelona on Friday!  Saturday, the Olympics start there!
No wonder her family is threatening death if she backs out!

(Of course, the Olympics folks did schedule their little party right
on top of Oshkosh.  Darn careless of them, if you ask me.)

Well, it's Friday, so it's too late to wish her bon voyage; wish
the net connection hadn't been down this week...

	Bill (who finds ignorance of the Olympics refreshing)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Hopkins                    Paramax Systems Corporation (A Unisys Company)
215-648-2854                    Great Valley Labs, PO Box 517, Paoli, PA 19301
hopkins@GVL.Unisys.Com             Opening my mouth is not company policy.
From: fskevin@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (Kevin R. Kirtley (SVER))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Little Iron
Keywords: corporate flying
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:19:00 GMT
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1389@systech.com>, ken@systech.com (Ken Brown) writes...
> 
>I know that some people are in aviation so that they can (eventually)
>fly for the airlines (the Big Iron).
> 
>Does anybody out there want to be a Corporate pilot?
> 
>But what are the downsides to this story?  Are these jobs few and
>far between?  Is the pay really low?  Are these jobs just considered
>'stepping stones' to airline jobs?  Do the pilots have to empty the
>holding tanks after the bigwigs get off?
> 

My three data points:

1)  A friend who flew twin otters for FedEx used to fly right seat in a
King Air for a small company.  The company wanted the aircraft on call but
seldom used it.  Soooo, he stood around the airplane most of the time, washed
it, stuffed it with crackers, pulled loose change from the seats, and seldom
had control of the aircraft because the captain wouldn't give it up. A very
boring job indeed.

2) I spoke with corporate pilots who flew and HS-125 for Caterpillar (sp) and
their average day was: get up early, preflight the aircraft (stuff it with
crackers), fly a 250nm leg, play golf-see sights-have lunch, fly back.

3) My wife's friend's husband is a corporate pilot who flys almost every day
in either a Baron, an HS-125, or a Gulfstream G-II. Quite a mix but loves it.

Kevin 
Short Wing Piper Lover
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: rex@eng.umd.edu (Rex Root)
Subject: Re: Tuned pipes
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 18:07:25 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <j6cm6sm@quantum.on.ca> aboyd@quantum.on.ca (Andrew Boyd) writes:
>In article <92198.235943U54136@uicvm.uic.edu> <U54136@uicvm.uic.edu> 
>writes:
>>  Short and simply, what are tuned pipes???
>
>Ever blow across the top of a beer bottle?  Notice how the frequency of
>the tone decreases as you drink more beer?
>

Gee ... I always thought the change was an effect of the alcohol .. although
I was always puzzled to why each fresh bottle of beer began with the same
high frequency tone as the previous one.

	*******************************************************

   Rex L. Root Jr.  PP-ASEL-G              "I only fly inverted on purpose."   
   Electrical Engineering Dept.
   University of Maryland                               ()   ()
   College Park, Maryland  20742                  _______\___/_______
   e-mail: rex@eng.umd.edu                            |   ( )   |
   voice: (301) 405-3688                         ---------------------
   FAX: (301) 314-9281                                     T
            
                                             and ONLY 8 hours after that 
                                              last low frequency beer
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,sci.aeronautics
From: rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett)
Subject: Re: CAL 747 (Re: Coffee cups in the cockpit (Re: A320 yarns))
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:23:35 GMT

In article <168324152.M21208@mwvm.mitre.org> M21208@mwvm.mitre.org writes:
>In article <1992Jul27.221731.822@cactus.org>

>I don't think anybody (even Airbus Industrie) thinks cockpit problems
>don't exist, but that CAL upset was a pretty gross case of bizarre pilot
>behavior.  

One of the alarming things of the NTSB report is that the problem (over-
reliance on automation) was *not* bizarre, and, in fact, is fairly 
common.  After all, we're talking about people who fly 12-14 hour
flights, maybe make 5-6 landings a month, on a *very* reliable airplane,
in a very uneventful, over-the-water setting; this encourages *complacancy*.
It puts the pilot out of the loop.

Studies have shown that average pilots WILL tend to keep the autopilot
or FMS on, longer than is really wise.

Solutions?

1.  Training.  In this case, it *has* been pretty effective.  "Click it off"
training is now widespread in the industry.  

2.  Better interfaces.  Keep the pilots in the loop.  Give them things to
do.  Suggestions have ranged from more *fundamental*, old-fashioned inter-
faces, to *very* high-tech interfaces, which provide a "cocoon," not to
insulate, as in the Airbus case, but to prompt more brain activity, but
at the same time "protecting" the airplane from virtually all mistakes.
This has the relatively major problem of making the airplane the de facto
manager of the flight, with the pilot a back-up component.  Thus, regardless
of how "involved" the pilot gets, there may always be the knowledge that
the airplane will "save" him.  Then, just as with the A320, there may be
"overconfidence" crashes.

3.  Reduce the level of complexity of flight-management automation, while
retaining the other general trends of system/flightdeck design.  Many studies
have shown that the most effective autopilot modes are some combination of
heading and altitude holds; get much more complex than that, and operational
mistakes start to set in.  Food for thought.






---
Robert Dorsett
rdd@cactus.org
...cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!rdd
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: cstacy@ai.mit.edu (Christopher C. Stacy)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: overflying military ships [was Quantus]
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:49:39 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: random

How timely the Quantus story: a similar thing happened to me last night!  
On my way down to Hyannis on Cape Cod (BED -> HYA), I happened to fly 
(at 2500 ft) over the vicinity of a small ship, and was greeted with 
one of those "Unknown aircraft overflying US Coast Guard vessel blah blah 
blah Identify Yourself Blah Blah!!"  type of transmissions.
While I was sitting there going, "Hunh? Hey, I uhhh think maybe they mean me,
I wonder if I should---" Cape Approach (which is the nearby Otis AFB, from
whom I was already getting radar service from) came on and told the ship they
were on the wrong frequency, told me everything was OK, and then had a
conversation with the ship about where they and their planes were going to be.
Apparently the Coast Guard was conducting a little exercise in conjunction
with some of their own planes, and just transmitted over the wrong frequency.
It does wake one up, though!
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: rice@ttd.teradyne.com
Subject: Re: Manufacturer being sued _for_no_reason_
Organization: Teradyne Inc., Telecommunications Division
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 00:00:57 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.183517.16066@exu.ericsson.se>, exumfs@exu.ericsson.se (Mark Steph, XT/DO, x7534) writes:
> In article BqL@news.cso.uiuc.edu, rls@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Ray Swartz (Oh, that guy again)) writes:
>>	I just got this off of the wire.  Disgusting, as usual.
>>
>>Ray Swartz
>>
>>
>>	CHICAGO (UPI) -- The estate of blues guitarist Stevie Ray Vaughan,
>>killed with four others when a helicopter crashed into a fog-shrouded
>>ski hill in southern Wisconsin, sued the pilot, the helcopter company
>>and the makers of the helicopter Wednesday.
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>[...]
> 
> Oh, there's a reason, all right: Bell Helicopter has money and (I assume) some
> type of liability insurance to cover suits like this.
> 
> Any clue as to why they are sueing the pilot? I thought the pilot died in the
> crash, too???
>  
   Pilots, too, carry insurance, which pay's out to the estate AFTER all
outstanding claims are paid....

> ---
> Mark Steph               | Leave out the fiction / The fact is:
> exumfs@exu.ericsson.se   | This friction, Will only be worn by persistance
> (yes, .se *is* in Texas) | Leave out conditions--Courageous convictions,
> PO Box 833875, MS L-05   | Will drag the dream into existence
> Richardson, TX 75083     |      -Neil Peart, "Vital Signs"
> 
-- 
   John Rice        K9IJ     |  "Did I say that ?" I must have, but It was
                             |   MY opinion only, no one else's...Especially
                             |   Not my Employer's....
   rice@ttd.teradyne.com     |   Purveyor of Miracles,Magic and Sleight-of-hand
From: kzk00@ccc.amdahl.com (  200  Klaus Kraemer)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Tuned pipes
Date: 24 Jul 92 00:02:03 GMT
Reply-To: kzk00@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (  200  Klaus Kraemer)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <j6cm6sm@quantum.on.ca> aboyd@quantum.on.ca (Andrew Boyd) writes:
>In article <92198.235943U54136@uicvm.uic.edu> <U54136@uicvm.uic.edu> 
>writes:
>>  Short and simply, what are tuned pipes???
>
>Ever blow across the top of a beer bottle?  Notice how the frequency of
>the tone decreases as you drink more beer?
>
......and how the frequency, volume, grace and beauty of your singing
increases proportionally?
From: glenb@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Glen Baker)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Dogs in Planes
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:31:49 GMT
Organization: What, me? Organized?

In rec.aviation, morishig@sizzlean.berkeley.edu (Nina Morishige) writes:

> Has anyone got any experience flying with their dogs, or is it probably
> a bad idea? 

 Sure! Fido and Elliott fly with us to Tahoe all the time. The Golden
 (Elliott) jumps right into the rear of the plane as soon as we open
 the door and the Aussie (Fido) gets stuffed into a doggy-carrier in the
 back seat (he's too fuzzy, don't want dog hair all over the plane!).

 They seem to do just fine in the plane. No whining or anything. In fact
 they usually go right to sleep.

 ..glen "wouldn't fly without my dog!"
From: dougm@moses.juliet.ll.mit.edu (Doug Marquis x4018 g41)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: In-flight radar from ground stations?
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:33:45 GMT
Reply-To: dougm@atc.ll.mit.edu
Organization: M.I.T. Lincoln Laboratory - Group 41

In article <1992Jul23.125735.4309@bb1t.monsanto.com> demcma@bb1t.monsanto.com writes:

>   At the risk of exposing my total ignorance (and maybe stupidity also) on the
>   subject, I'd like to inquire as to the technical/practible feasibility of data 
>   transmission of ground-based weather radar either by video or fax....

FAA is currently providing limited funding to MIT Lincoln Laboratory
to investigate the delivery of real-time (updates every 15 mintes)
graphical weather radar products to a general aviation cockpit.  The
goals include specific cost targets for avionics equippage, and reuse
of the data link for other services, such as the traffic information
service (sort of a ground-based TCAS).  The program includes an
evaluation of a prototype system, which I believe will be installed in
a C172.

--
                                    -*- Doug -*-
                                    dougm@atc.ll.mit.edu
From: ritter@claude.ma30.bull.com (Roger Ritter)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: In-flight radar from ground stations?
Date: 29 Jul 92 12:59:18 GMT
Organization: Bull HN Informations Systems Inc.

wisch@Apple.COM (Ed Wischmeyer) writes:

>Frankly, I'll take any airborne collision system I can get that really works.

Surely, Ed, you meant a collision *avoidance* system?  :-)

-- 
Roger Ritter N1FZZ (R.Ritter@ma30.bull.com) PP-ASEL, AGI
1946 Luscombe 8A N71983 "Rocky"
Sheep do not so much fly as plummet!        NH CAP: Profile 49
From: tima@CFSMO.HONEYWELL.COM (Timothy D Aanerud)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Cultass production figures (was Flaps on approach and go around)
Date: 21 Jul 92 13:37:36 GMT
Organization: Honeywell Commercial Flight Systems/Minneapolis Operations

In article <2510458@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> Scott Turner writes:

>Anybody have an idea how many fixed gear Cutlass's were
>built?  And what's the model designation, if a standard Skyhawk is a
>172, and a Cutlass RG is a 172RG?  Enquiring minds and all that don'tcha
>know.  How 'bout it, oh guru Greg!

Cutlass RG is the 172RG, and the fix gear Cutlass is the 172Q.  Production
figures are from _Wings_of_Cessna_ by Edward H. Phillips, ISBN 0-91139-05-2

    Year  172RG   172Q
    1980   570
    1981   320
    1982   179
    1983    44     210
    1984    32     179
    1985    13

How do you spot a fixed gear Cutlass from a ordinary 172?  Look for the trim
paint starting on the dorsal fin, if it extends up on to the vertical
stablizer, it probably a Cutlass.

 
>I'll also bet that better than half the GA pilots in the world of 80's
>and 90's vintage did their first retract time in a Cutlass.

Not me! I did mine in the Skylane RG!
-- 
We will get you there within       |           Timothy Aanerud
 2 NM/hr, 95% of the time...       |  Honeywell Commercial Flight Systems
                                   |      Makers of Laser Gyro IRU's
       N45.07.9  W93.16.6          |         tima@cfsmo.honeywell.com 

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: gjh@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Galen J. Hekhuis)
Subject: Re: Carlsbad Caverns Fly In
Organization: University of Virginia Health Sciences Center
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:05:54 GMT

In article <76@newave.mn.org> john@newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III) writes:
}In <s2dmtm#@lynx.unm.edu> ingham@lacerta.unm.edu (Kenneth Ingham) writes:
}> Carlsbad Caverns Fly In (CACAFI*)

}I didn't know it was legal to fly an airplane inside of a cave.  It must
}be a really big cave....

It is a really big cave.  I'll bet you didn't know that the first
underground hot air balloon ascent was made in Meremac Caverns in 
Missouri, either...   :^)


--
       hang gliding mailing list: hang-gliding-request@virginia.edu 
     Galen Hekhuis  UVa Health Sci Ctr (804)982-1646 gjh@virginia.edu
  chinaware from China, indiaware from India, and underwear from down under
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: tel@cbnews.cb.att.com (thomas.e.lester)
Subject: Re: Question: what might cause a dead battery?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:40:15 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.154832.29026@selway.umt.edu> cap@selway.umt.edu (Charles A. Smith) writes:
>I know, I know, leaving the master on!
>
>Here's the deal: the Skylane has had the battery go dead twice in the last
>month.  One day the battery is fully charged, and the next it is stone
>dead.  But we didn't leave the master on (really).  When it happened
>
>It seems more likely that the battery cable is pinched against the 
>fuselage somewhere, but we haven't found such a thing.
>
>Any ideas?

	Yep.   Put an ammeter in series with the battery with 
	everything turned off. Do this AT the battery (+ terminal).
	Measure the leakage current and then trace it down by disconnecting
	any wires branching off the main bus. When you disconnect the
	faulty branch, leakage current should go to zero.
	Continue this process until you isolate the problem part/area.

	Good luck.


-- 
	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	Tom Lester				att!cblph!tel
	Sonerai IIL (under TEST)		(614) 860-3259
	N4LX 					(614) 927-8106
From: glenb@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Glen Baker)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:53:41 GMT
Subject: Re: "remain clear of the ARSA..."
Organization: What, me? Organized?
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

In rec.aviation, davea@col.hp.com (Dave Allen) writes:

>>    3) "Monterey Approach 36Z. Say date. Say time. Say initials."

>  #3 sounds extreme. You don't know how busy he/she is and the more it
>  stays friendly and cooperative the better off we all are. 

 Yeah, I know. I wasn't really serious about that one...

> How about... 4) Ask how long a delay to expect.

 Well in this particular case by the time you can ask the question the
 answer is meaningless. You can't contact Monterey until you're about
 1000 AGL or so due to the surrounding hills which gives you about 30
 seconds from your initial contact until the ARSA hits the surface. 
 If they say "remain clear" you *may* have to respond: 
 
    "36Z unable due to terrain and cloud clearance requirements".

 Note that this isn't an emergency yet, but it may be nearly impossible
 to remain clear of the ARSA!

 I guess the *best* solution would be to call 'em on the phone prior
 to departure. Now if there was just a phone at Carmel Valley....

 ..glen
From: oskar@isbank.is (Oskar Armannsson)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: P-38s in Ice?
Date: 22 Jul 92 08:36:30 GMT
Organization: Islandsbanki, Reykjavik Iceland

In <2810017@hpsad.sad.hp.com> lesb@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Les Brabetz) writes:

>   I am very interested in any further information on the recovery
>of 8 vintage P-38s that were buried in the ice in Greenland. I have
>seen two articles in the local paper about the effort; one to say
>the group was trying to recover the planes and another this morning
>that stated they had recovered one without the canopy section. This
>article was datelined Ft. Lauderdale.

I heard in the radio Reykjavik  news that they had managed to get 
one P-38 up from the icehole.  There was stated that it was done piece 
by piece and the canopy section was not mentioned.  This news was 
broadcasted some days ago.

>   The task was to tunnel into the ice using steam and then to lift
>the airplanes out.

The news also said the group hoped to get more of the plaines from 
the ice as they get more experienced and the method get more advanced.

>                    The planes were forced to land due to lack of
>fuel near the end of WW II and were never recovered, until now!
>There were 8 P-38s and one B-17. What an interesting story! But, I
>want more. A National Geographic special, or equivalent?

>   Any further information would be welcomed!

The planes where on their way to Reykjavik (the capital of Iceland) from
U.S.A. (Goosbay if I remember it correctly).  The crews got message in 
their radios about very bat weather in Reykjavik.  Therefore they tried
to fly to some airfield in Greenland (I don't remember where in Greenland).
The weather in Reykjavik was fine this day and nobody knows hwo transmitted
these message.  It is considered most likely that some german U-boot has
sent this false alarm.

Regards

-- 
    Oskar Armannsson          Internet: oskar@isbank.is   
    Islandsbanki h.f.         Phone:    354-1-608000      
    Kringlan 7                Fax:      354-1-678711      
    155 Reykjavik, Iceland                                
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: hagood@sabre.den.mmc.com (Dave Hagood)
Subject: Re: Wave from wind sheer?
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics Group
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 23:25:09 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.103247.19079@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>, kaye@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Kaye Stott) writes:
[ about wave lift over flat terrain ]

	Mountain wave conditions can extend hundreds of miles downwind of the
barrier that creates the wave.  Assuming the visbility was ok, you might 
have seen the lenticular clouds, marking the other lift zones, upwind of you.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
									|
David M. Hagood			Martin Marietta Astronautics Group	|
									|
Voice:  (303) 977-9657		When in danger, or in doubt,		|
E-mail: hagood@den.mmc.com	Run in circles, scream and shout.	|
Fax: (303) 977-1530							|
									|
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
     static char *disclaimer = "My opinions, not Martin Marietta's."    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Small Children in GA aircraft
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:47:02 GMT
Reply-To: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.  Engineering

In article <1992Jul28.020518.24153@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, gdw@po.CWRU.Edu 
(Gary D. Wright) writes:
> So.....does anyone in this gang have experiences/expertise in this 
> matter?  How young can (should) passengers be?  Any FAA dictates 
> concerning this?  Any thoughts would be appreciated.  

In 1989 I traveled with my then 2.5 year old to Oshkosh, and I just
used EAR plugs in his ears.  He took them out once or twice, but the
sound level convinced him to leave them in, so I think they were of
some value in reducing the noise.

Now if I could find some way to deal with my ten year olds propensity
for airsickness...


Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com
SHO  GOZE
From: haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: SJC ILS and ALS OTS until 5/31/93?
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:19:16 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ucsc.edu


In article <8dYm02RV1bak01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> kzk00@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (  200  Klaus Kraemer) writes:
>To get out of that embarrassment, AA pressured
>the city of San Jose to speed up the plans for the runway extension.
>Of course, now somebody is sueing... Their theory is a longer runway
>makes more noise...
And AA keeps making noises about ceasing to use SJC as a hub, as they aren't
making money there.
-- 
haynes@cats.ucsc.edu
haynes@cats.bitnet

"Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an Art."
        Charles McCabe, San Francisco Chronicle
From: erik@tera.com (Erik Hedberg)
Subject: Re: 747 Loop ANSWER
Organization: Tera Computer Company, Seattle, WA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 21:12:13 GMT

In article <1992Jul16.144518.3821@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> mperlman@nyx.cs.du.edu (Marshal "Airborne" Perlman) writes:
>
>SO TO END THE DEBATE I TELL YOU THIS:
>
>You can ROLL a 707...
>You cannot ROLL a 747
>and both cannot be looped.

You must mean "and neither can be looped".

China Airlines did a nice barrel roll in one of their 747's over the
Pacific.  The pilot suffered spatial disorientation, rolled the plane
into a dive, pulled up when he broke through the clouds at 10,000
feet, pulled 5G's and bent the main wing spar while trying to bring
the plane to straight and level flight.  It wasn't pretty, but it was
a roll.

Erik
Newsgroups: rec.aviation