From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Israel as fascist state? 
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 04:00:13 GMT

ez012344@chip.ucdavis.edu writes:

# Within its boundaries and occupied territories Israel seems intent on 
# a slow but steady removal of Arabs. They declare a curfew in an area and
# then kill a girl who ventures out after a patrol comes through and announces
# that the curfew is lifted. 

Bullshit. Children have been killed (and Israeli children, too) but
never in such circumstances and becaue they are tricked to come out
so they can be shot. I especially remember a case in which a group
of Jewish school children went on a hike with an armed guard; they
were attacked with stones by numerous people, and in the mayhem that
developed the guard shot (accidently) one of the Jewish girls, which
died of her wounds. This goes to show you how people can react in
such circumstances, and that tragic accidents happen.

This is not to say the IDF has not screwed up to a degree in its
treatment of the Intifada - it has. But your cute little story stinks.
Where did you read this? The "Spotlight"?

# They remove, possibly illegally and certainly inhumanely, 400 or so Arabs ...

I don't support these deportations, certainly not such a number of
them. But: firstly, Israel didn't, in its worst nightmare, envision
such a situation as the current one - it was assumed that the deportees
would be accomodated by Lebanon. Second, let me broaden your horizons
with the agenda of the people being expelled - they are members of
the Islamic Jihad and HAMAS. Here are some relevant excerpts:

-----------------------------------------------------------
Today's YEDIOT AHRONOT reports that the Islamic Jihad yesterday
again claimed responsibility for the terrorist attack on the
Israeli Embassy in Argentina. The organization proclaimed that it
will continue its attacks on Israel, "be there as many victims as
there may." Islamic Jihad is one of the aliases of the pro-Iranian
Hizbullah organization.  This is the second time in five days that
the organization has claimed responsibility for the attack in
Buenos Aires. In a statement in Arabic communicated to the Lebanese
newspaper "A-Nahar" in Beirut, the Islamic Jihad said that it was
still at war and would continue to strike.  The statement added
that "The war is on until Israel ceases to exist and until the last
Jew in the world has been eliminated. Israel is completely evil and
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
it must be erased from the face of the Earth."  


                            The Covenant
                               of the
                     Islamic Resistance Movement


                           18 August 1988
.
.
.
Israel  will  exist and  will  continue  to  exist until  Islam  will
obliterate  it,   just  as  it obliterated  others  before  it"  (The
Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
.
.
.

    Moreover,   if  the  links  have been  distant  from  each  other
and if  obstacles,  placed by  those who  are the lackeys  of Zionism
in  the  way of  the  fighters  obstructed  the continuation  of  the
struggle,    the  Islamic   Resistance   Movement   aspires  to   the
realisation  of Allah's  promise,   no matter  how  long that  should
take.  The  Prophet,  Allah bless him  and grant him  salvation,  has
said:   "The Day  of  Judgement will  not  come  about until  Moslems
fight the  Jews (killing the  Jews),  when  the Jew will  hide behind
stones  and trees.   The  stones and  trees will  say  O Moslems,   O
Abdulla,  there  is a Jew  behind me,  come  and kill him.   Only the
Gharkad  tree,  (evidently  a certain  kind  of tree)   would not  do
that  because it  is  one of  the  trees of  the  Jews." (related  by
al-Bukhari and Moslem).
-------------------------------------------------------------------

A great bunch of guys, eh?

# So what is my message doing in soc.culture.german since it's about Jews and
# Arabs? Only to make this point: whoever is in power, whoever is victorious
# at the moment, dictates oppression and brutality. 

True, to an extent, but Israel's position is tricky: either it is in
power, or it is in the mediterranean sea. Tough choice. 

Also, there is no comparison between Israel's treatment of Arabs and
the Nazi method of dealing with the Jews. Except for the obvious
difference in the goal and the scale of both, there is no way the
Jews presented any kind of danger, or menace, to the Nazis. They were
a small, persecuted, peaceful minority, and it simply did not make
any practical sense to exterminate them. Although I hold no grudge
against present day Germans (as I have posted often) I am starting
to find the attempts to classify the Holocaust as "just another
atrocity" annoying.

-Danny Keren.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.german