HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: Random tidbits regarding WOC & A4000
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 04:36:43 GMT

ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
>	He's dreaming if he thinks the A4000 with IDE is competition for the
>  various 486 boxes out there that offer much more for the same price.

You would have to compare the A4000 to an EISA 486 with a good graphics
card and sound card.  Most 1meg SVGA cards do not have the HiColor DAC
for more than 256 colors.  Of course, the 486 system will be a bit cheaper,
but the A4000 is not a clone.

-- Gerald
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Re: A4000 announcements!
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 07:46:58 GMT

WHAP!!!!   Under $3000 for a complete '040.  Excellent.

Can I really use my A570 as a standard CD player?  Neat, if so.

Thom
From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: SCSI Vs. IDE?
Date: Sat,  5 Sep 92 17:02:01 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

In article <1992Sep5.020858.11399@gbrmpa.gov.au>
storage@gbrmpa.gov.au (FTP Storage A/C) writes:

|  In article <copes.715597537@pride> copes@pride.cs.curtin.edu.au (Simon Cope)
|  writes:
|  >
|  >BTW, last week I read a comparison test between 14 486/50's.  They all ran 
|  >around 400-500k sec on the Hdisk tests
|  
|  What a crock of shit, my 386/33 with IDE pulls around 850k/s.

What a pathetic piece of shit (the 386/33); my 68020/20 with SCSI "pulls"
1.5Mbytes/Second tested on 50MB and 100MB files.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: New Product opinions
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 23:34:23 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.134513.25869@lonex.rl.af.mil> kopackm@lonex.rl.af.mil (Michael A. Kopack) writes:
>4) How about giving the IBM compatable slots a break. If I wanted an IBM,
>I'd go buy one. I'm not saying that we should dump all the slots, but people
>have been saying that there are gonna be 7 or 8 PC slots in the A4000. I
>don't think most PC's come with that many slots!! 

   The IBM slots don't cost more than a few dollars to install.  As long as
Zorro II or III slots are being provided, leaving out the IBM slots would
mean unnused space in front of the Zorro slots, and filling that space with
an IBM slot costs almost nothing.  (The only exception to this is the A3000-
style Zorro slot in line with the video slot)

>6) Would it be so difficult to put high density drives in all amiga's? I
>mean, crap, the MS-Dos world has had 1.44 Meg floppies for a few years now,
>and by the time we get 1.76 (maybe) they'll be getting ready for 2.88Megs
>!!! Why not just skip 1.76 and go to 2.88 also???

   Or better yet, use floptical drives.  Several months ago, there were
rumors that Commodore had signed a deal with Insite to use their floptical
drives in new Amigas.  But they've effectively locked themselves out of 
this possibility by using IDE instead of SCSI.  Imagine all of the 
possibilities for these computers down the proverbial drain all because 
some idiot wanted to save a tiny few manufacturing dollars and use IDE 
instead...

>8) VM should be included and I'll be downright pissed if it's not in 3.0!!

   I agree.  And if the Commodore people cannot develop it themselves, they
could at least license it from this German/Dutch company that supposedly
developed an amiga VMem system.  This assumes that this VMem system actually
exists and is not vaporware, though, but I still have not been proven that 
it is not vaporware.

>9) The moron who came up with IDE for the A4000 should be shot! That's great,
>I've got a 105 Meg SCSI for my A500, but if I want to upgrade to the A4000
>I either have to purchase a $300 card or sell my drive and get a $300 IDE
>drive. Hey joe-dork engineer, I'd say that 80% of the Amiga owners that have
>HD's have SCSI, and since C= sales are usually to previous C= owners......

   I agree.

>10) They must be joking with the price of the A3000T! Crap, I think I'll just
>go buy an 040 accelerator for my A500! I can do one hell of an upgrade hack
>for $6000. Anybody interested??? I'll take your money!!!!

   Or better yet, buy an A3000T and put a third-party '040 card into it for
about $1000 less.  

>--Mike Kopack
>
>-- 
>Mike Kopack                         | Sex, Drugs, Rock & Roll and my Amiga,
>Internet : gt6758b@prism.gatech.edu | what more could anyone want?
>           kopack@bugs.rl.af.mil    \              -- Me 
>           kopackm@lonex.rl.af.mil   -----------------------------------------

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
From: M.W.Johnson@bradford.ac.uk (Mark Johnson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Icon default tool paths (was Re: A4000 Specs? Who knows.)
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:21:18 GMT
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Originator: 90371980@ccw315

danaf@bray1a.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.) writes:

>I stand by my previous statement... any program that does not allow the user
>to customize fonts under 2.04+ is NOT written properly...

Excuse me, but some people may not be able to afford KS/WB 2.  Some people are 
perfectly happy with 1.3.  IMHO, software is not written properly iff it doesn't
work under 2.04. By this I mean a user can access all the features of the program
in question without Gurus and whatever.  Wasting time allowing esoteric use of fonts
at the cost of not adding features which make software better is not writing properly.

BTW I myself have 1.3.  The next peripheral I'm buying for my amiga is more memory 
to enhance the use of software I already own (as well as allowing me to play Links 
without a hard drive :-)


-- 
| Mark Johnson	     |Hold a chicken in the air,			|	
| Comp Sci II	     |Stick a deckchair up your nose.......		|
| Bradford University|			_The_Chicken_Song_		|
| UK       	     |				_Spitting_Image		|
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro)
Subject: Re: Lots of code?
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:00:26 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.232644.8028@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> ccb8m@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Charles C. Bundy) writes:

>>That's a moronic comment, Mike.  Greater sophistication implies greater
>>code size, which in turn implies a higher chance of bugs.  It doesn't work
>>backwards; take a logic course.
>
>Had to comment on this :)  Jerry, Jerry, Jerry ... If greater code
>size implied a higher chance of bugs, why do we use High Level
>Languages?
>
>   1) HLL's have a one to many lines of code generation facility,
>      whose premise is:
>
>   2) Reducing programmer errors through machine generated, verifable
>      code.
>
>Your 'logic' fails, because the # of lines of code does not imply
>human introduced bugs, (libraries/toolkits..etc... have to be taken
>into account).  Also, depending upon the programming methodology
>in use, QA/program correctness should be verified before a
>SINGLE line of code is written, (Check out E. Dikstra).  I realize
>that many companies don't practice software engineering, but that
>doesn't excuse the lack of discipline.

Okay, I accept your argument about the way things *should* be.
Theoretically, code size should not necessarily be linearly related to
the number of bugs.  Now, would anyone like to show me v1.00 of a
multi-megabyte program in the real world that didn't have some bugs -
and occasionally serious ones?  How many bugs did AmigaOS have in
V1.00?

Flaming an early version of complex software is fruitless, because
when the bugs are fixed, the arguments just evaporate.  If they aren't
fixed, or if they persist long enough to hurt market share, then
that's a different story.

Paul
-- 
Paul Secinaro
pss1@kepler.unh.edu
Synthetic Vision and Pattern Analysis Laboratory
UNH Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering
From: nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interlace video (Was Re: PC (OS/2) / Amiga debate)
Date: 7 Sep 1992 14:47:20 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

danaf@vccsouth28.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.) writes:
>nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou) writes:
>|> danaf@bray1b.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.) writes:
>|> >nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou) writes:

>|> [...]
>|> >>I think you're wrong on that one.  Standard VGA use 31.5 KHz horizontal
>|> 
>|> >I said DISPLAYS, which was not the best choice of words. I should have used
>|> >a word like "screens" or "monitors"... I meant interlaced monitors.

[ tons of old quoted text ]

Hey Frank, do you HAVE TO quote the whole 100+ lines just to add these two
irrelevant comments?

>Well, actually, there are people who buy Video Toaster workstations who never
>even see the Amiga O/S... 8)

>But, as I have REPEATEDLY stated, if you want to do something like write a
>letter, you just drop to a NON-INTERLACED DISPLAY MODE. There are plenty.

>I refuse to repeat this one more time. Read through that statement, S-L-O-W-L-Y
>and carefully. THE AMIGA SUPPORTS NON-INTERLACED DISPLAY MODES AS WELL AS 
>INTERLACED ONES.

DID I EVER SAY THE AMIGA DOESN'T SUPPORT NON-INTERLACED VIDEO MODE?  WHERE
DID YOU GET THE IDEA THAT I SAID SUCH THING?

Sorry I have to shout, I hate it when people read into lines I didn't
write.

For the record: I only said interlaced mode flickers more than
non-interlaced ones at the same field rate (but does reduce flicker with a
given bandwidth, as pointed out to me by David).

[ another tons of quoted text ]

Learn to trim the articles to save bandwidth.

-- Nan
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: amuser@cs.curtin.edu.au (Bill Sharp-Smith AUG)
Subject: Re: Random tidbits regarding WOC & A4000
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 05:00:17 GMT

IDE is a shame when you start considering CDROM. Commodore finally
starts doing something about CDTV compatablility with the Amiga, then
releases its star machine without a SCSI interface to support it !

Sure you can add it in later, but the base configuration of a machine
has a significant influence on how people view a machine, especially
magazine reviewers who may not know about 3rd party controllers.

The only positive point is it opens the door for 3rd party SCSI-II
cards.

-- 
 ________________________________________________________________________
/[  /~7 / / /~~ /  / /~7 | Email: amuser@marsh.cs.curtin.edu.au          ]
 [ / 7 /_/ /_7 //l/ / 7  | By post: PO Box 595, Cloverdale,W. Aust 6105  ]
 [ Amiga Users Group of  |                                               ]
 [ Western Australia Inc | Opinions expressed are my own etc...          ]
 [_______________________________________________________________________]
/ / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / /
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: copes@cs.curtin.edu.au (Simon Cope)
Subject: Re: A4000 at WOC
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 03:59:13 GMT

keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:

>aciceran@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (A. J. Ciceran) writes:

>>(Keith Allan Schneider) writes:

>>>The workbench is very slow in 256 color mode.  Also, it seems to shimmer.
>>>It is still useable, if you have patience.

>>Based on the assumption that the A4000/AGA machine was being displayed on
>>an interlaced 1960 with a limited refresh rate, how much can we attribute
>>this shimmer/flicker to the monitor itself? 

>Well, the lower color modes didn't shimmer...

The shimmer can also be caused by something trivial like interference from
power cables.  Presuming the machine was on a stand with many others, this is
quite likely.

>keith

--
copes@cs.curtin.edu.au
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com (Dances With Bikers)
Subject: Re: AA & A3000???
Reply-To: blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 01:06:25 GMT

>In article <1992Sep14.075004.21751@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:

>>   OK, the bandwidth isn't there.  Yes, I realize that the bandwidth isn't
>>there.  I assure you that I am FULLY AWARE that the bandwidth isn't there.

>>But what does bandwidth have to do with it?

For me, these two little bits just about sum up the wisdom of MB.
-- 
Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland  blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com  BIX:blaine_g
580 Arapeen Drive, SLC, Utah 84108           Favorite road signs:
Dumper of Dirtbikes #46             FJ1200   Winding Road Next 77 Miles
My other motorcycle is a Quadracer           Caution: Passing Areas Not Marked
From: doiron@starpt.UUCP (Glenn Doiron)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Atari Falcon Discount Supermachine  Re: Sydnes is gone?!!
Date: 11 Sep 92 12:29:17 GMT
Organization: 68K Software Development
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith

In article <1992Sep1.235926.11222@athena.cs.uga.edu> kjohnson@castor.cs.uga.edu (Kristopher Johnson) writes:
> In article <1992Sep1.084427.27049@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
> >kjohnson@castor.cs.uga.edu (Kristopher Johnson) writes:
> >: One of the planned third-party 'peripherals' for the Falcon030's 
> >: processor-direct slot is an external 'bus cage' (an external box
> >: with several VMEbus and/or other-type bus slots), so it *WILL* be
> >: able to handle more than a single peripheral card.
> >
> >But there's a slight problem:  The other third party "peripherals"
> >being designed are FOR that "processor direct slot".  They won't work
> >with the cage...  Which gives it even less of a base than the PDS will
> >have.
> 
> Presumably, the 'bus cage' will also offer connectors for "PDS"-designed
> peripherals.
> 
> Steve

That is RIDICULOUS!  There will be no arbitration.  It's similar to the old
Subsystem hacks that put ZorroII buses on A1000's/500's.  Kiss your
multiple-card compatibility goodbye.

Glenn Doiron
--
Amiga UUCP+
Origin:  uunet!starpt!doiron     (Organization:68K Software Development)
         BIX: gdoiron
** Not enough memory to perform requested operation.  Add 4 megs and retry.
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:23322 comp.sys.amiga.misc:13536
From: rdixon@pentagon-ai.army.mil (Roger Dixon)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: CDTV Ads
Date: 4 Sep 92 11:19:17 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Artificial Intelligence Center, The Pentagon


 I tried to post this a couple of weeks ago, but have been having
trouble getting off my host.....

    About a month ago I decided to fill out on one of those cards that
comes with the magazines requesting more info on CDTV.  I was surprised
a couple of weeks later to receive a large package directly from C=.
Inside, there was not only the standard brochures on what a wonderful
product it is, but also a very professionally done, 16 minute video tape
about CDTV, it's features, and it's possible uses.  I'm impressed by
this level of marketing effort if everyone who requests info is getting
this package.  No, it is not reaching the mass market, but it can go
a long way to sway people who express a real interest.

    Good job Commodore!

-- 
********************************************************************
* Roger Dixon             rdixon@pentagon-ai.army.mil              * 
* (703) 325-2587          PERSCOM OPMD Knowledge Engineering Group *
******************************************************************** 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn)
Subject: Re: IFF database of .advocacy folks
Organization: Qld Dept Primary Industries
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 09:47:30 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.001136.2451@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>Exactly where and how did people start think there was going to be
>a new 'AA' chipset?

I first heard rumours of a new chipset that would blow away the new chips
Atari was developing (they were going to get a blitter for the ST, thereby
upgrading it to Amiga-killer level) back in 1986.  The new chipset was to go
in a new machine called the Ranger, which was to use the 020.

Of course, that has nothing to do with AA chipset rumours, but it shows that
we've been hanging out for an upgrade for a long, long time.  As for AA, well,
we started hearing about ECS back in 1988.  By the time the ECS was pretty well
known in 1989, there was much disappointment, and people started to wonder what
might be next.  It's hard to remember exactly when the true AA rumours began,
but I had certainly heard of chips with modes similar to AA by the start of 91.
I first heard the term "AA" earlier this year.  Rumours on the net took on a
more substantial form after a device called "HAM-E" was taken off the market,
and the only reason the developers would give was that they couldn't tell us
because of their NDA with Commodore.  This led some of us to think that a new
chipset was coming which would feature an enhanced HAM mode like HAM-E
provided, and, lo and behold, it does!  Some people at the time thought that
Commodore must have licensed Black Belt's technology, but it's clear now that
they thought they wouldn't sell too many HAM-E's when everyone had AA.
Rumours continued to increase from there, and some of what was real became
more obvious over time.  By the time the infamous leaked documents appeared,
we had heard it all before (well, most of it...  ;-)

>i was curious - and how might this possibly 
>affect video resolution/colors?

Do you mean to say that you haven't heard by now?  Amazing...  In brief, no
new resolutions, but with 8 bitplanes (256 colours) from 24-bits, available
in all resolutions, including superhires (1280 pixels across), plus HAM8,
with 256k colours from 256k, with similar restrictions to HAM, but again
available in all modes.

>Would the 1084S still qualify?

Rumours (very strong ones - try reading between the lines in one of Dave
Haynie's recent articles) indicate that AA will either include a deinterlacer,
or will offer non-interlaced versions of (some) current modes.  It will at the
very least provide the same non-interlaced productivity mode (640x480) that
ECS gives you now, but without the present colour restrictions.  To take
advantage of these, you'd need a VGA or multisync.  The 1084 would qualify
for playing games, but that's about it.


-- 

David Meiklejohn                  | Internet : davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au
Computer Systems Officer, QDPI    | Fax      : +61 70 92 3593
Mareeba, Australia                | Voice    : +61 70 92 1555
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Critical mass getting bigger? - was re: AmigaWorld Lies about Links
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:52:17 GMT
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
>
>Windows can't run unless you have a config.sys and autoexec.bat file which
>defines certain things in DOS. In particular, you must load sound, CD-ROM,
>etc...then. Why won't Jerry comment as to why QEMM et al make a living off
>of selling expanded memory managers. Junk, it's all junk.
> 

OK, if you insist, I'll comment on QEMM, as I myself use it.  Look, QEMM isn't
necessary.  DOS 5 has all you need in terms of memory management drivers.
QEMM is just more convenient.  If you only run in DOS or Windows, you don't
really need it, but if you switch back and forth all the time, it's kind of
useful.  It's EMS emulation is also faster than DOS's.

>
>Philip McDunnough
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A3400/A4000 specs...
Date: 6 Sep 92 19:47:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntp.1992Sep6.194757.29263
Organization: University of Oregon Campus Information Exchange

In article <1992Sep5.154623.24426@ra.msstate.edu> ada@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Sunga Rettaf) writes:
>
>Is the information real or fake?  If real, is this the type of machine
>that people are expecting?

[ Bogus drivel deleted ]

>Sunga Rettaf
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^
 FATTER AGNUS  (Oh, please. At least be original.) 

   People, could we please cut this crap out? There are way too many people
in .advocacy that actually BELIEVE this hooey, and then they pass it on to
friends, who pass it on to friends, who distort a lie, and then Commodore
gets blamed for doing something they never did in the first place.
   IT'S GETTING OLD. IT'S NOT FUNNY ANYMORE. PLEASE STOP IT. 

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Giles (Dynamix, Inc.)                 BIX: ggiles 
All opinions expressed are my own.          Internet: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Random tidbits regarding WOC & A4000
Date: 14 Sep 92 01:02:18 GMT
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Atlantic City NJ

ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles) writes:

>   Price is fine, except it hurts expandability. While many users may never go
>beyond a single hard drive, there are problems when dealing with CD-ROM and
>tape drives. Everything in the Amiga world is oriented towards SCSI, and all o
>a sudden we're whacked with IDE. 

  What problem?  The IDE port does not preclude the addition of a SCSI port
because you can simply drop in a controller.  It's actually a better deal
since it gives 3rd party vendors the chance to create SCSI cards of their
own which might be better and cheaper than a Commodore offering (as if we've
not seen that before in other peripherals).

  Basically, the problem is not the IDE port, it's the profile of the Amiga
community.  The SCSI port was not a "must have" for the large majority of them,
so why include one?

  -jack-
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: u894776@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (James McCoull)
Subject: Re: A4000 at WOC
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 00:13:02 GMT

barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:

>   But along comes the AA chipset, and we finally get to see how an Amiga 
>performs with 8 bitplanes at 640x480, and we see that it **CRAWLS**.  In fact,
>we find that the Workbench is **UNUSABLE** in 256-color mode because it is
>so slow, even though the Mac and IBM systems -- which have been available for
>much longer -- are pokish but still very usable with 256 colors.

Hmm CBM did take a while to give us 256 colours and from all accounts
this new machine doesnt have much grunt in the high bandwidth modes.

All one can hope is that CBM had their real engineers working on
the group of machines after this one.

Hmm... I've been doing solid realtime window drags on my 1987
Archimedes in 256 colour mode for quite some time now...  this new
A4000 from CBM really would be a dissapointment at the low end
let alone the high end.


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy