HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.boats




             These comments are all very good.  I agree strongly with the
advice to rent first.  One comment that I didn't specifically
see which was in a previous string is -  if you want to own a boat, buy
a used one at least to start off with. You will be able to spend a lot less
for a given size or get more for the same money.  Remember, as soon as you
take delivery of a new boat, it becomes a used boat too. It's also better
to have a boat that you consider too small than one that you consider too big.


                      Thatch Harvey    


    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
    % Thatch Harvey                                                    %
    % uucp: hplabs!hplsla!thatchh        domain: thatchh@hplsla.hp.com %
    % Hewlett-Packard              Lake Stevens Instrument Division    %
    % Lake Stevens, WA                                                 %
    % (206) 335-2083            31' Baunsgard   1972 twin engine       %
    %      flying bridge, lapstrake, wood cruiser "ENDLESS LIST"       %
    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%





Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: steph@cs.uchicago.edu (Stephen Wilson Bailey)
Subject: Re: IMS, overheard...
Organization: University of Chicago Computer Science
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 18:57:05 GMT

In article <21AUG199214301752@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man...) writes:

   Recently heard about some of the latest IMS boats:

   concordia 46 - PIG
   tripp 47 - Can't get out of it's own way
   wylie 46 - very good
   farr 44 - unbelievable


   Comments?

Seems true from my experience.  I've seen several seasons of (both?)
Wylie 46s (Kropp Duster and Heartbeat, are there others?) and their
performance in Lake Michigan has been exceptional.  I'm especially
impressed with Heartbeat, since she was built, maybe, four years ago.
She was sold to the west coast this year, and just won a big IMS
series out there.

The Tripp 47s certainly don't seem to be compiling a record comparable
to either the Wylies or the Farr, and there are more of them (4 now?).
The Tripp 47 Deep Powder won the NOOD here, but I think that was
because Buddy and son(s?) were aboard.  I bet he could have won the
regatta in Constellation.  I have a feeling that other Tripp 47
victories may be similar.

As for the Farr 44, it was certainly fast in Key West, and has
continued to win after that.  There is a Farr 39 here in Chicago,
which looks like a baby brother.  Its performance has been erratic,
but most people I talk to claim that the boat has speed to burn, but
the crew is still working their own bugs out.

I've never seen Dancer (the Concordia 46) win anything.  She's
probably pretty heavy in the ends for the current IMS rule, isn't she?

Steph
From: venable@faculty.coe.wvu.wvnet.edu (Wallace Venable)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Narrow Boat and Computer.
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:09:47 GMT
Organization: WVU College of Engineering

In article <1992Sep2.151828.4852@cm.cf.ac.uk> Andrew.Stratton@cm.cf.ac.uk (Andrew F Stratton) writes:

>I am considering buying a narrow boat as a home (while I do a PhD), but I
>am concerned that my PC clone wouldn't be up to it.  Any comments (good
>or bad)?

	For Americans:  This is about living on an English CANAL BOAT.
From: bloxham@geophysics.harvard.edu (Jeremy Bloxham)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Recomend good LORAN ???
Date: 1 Sep 92 12:01:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Sep1.120126.20138
Reply-To: bloxham@geophysics.harvard.edu
Organization: Dept. of Earth & Planetary Sciences, Harvard University

In article 92Aug31160435@candide.uchicago.edu, steph@cs.uchicago.edu (Stephen Wilson Bailey) writes:
>We have a small Apelco LORAN, the 6300.  
>
>Also, its ``time to go'' function seems brain dead, inasmuch as it
>just divides the distance by your speed over ground, ignoring your
>course over ground.  You could be heading directly away from the
>waypoint at it would still give you a non-infinite time to go.
>
Maybe it's heard that the Earth's not flat!

Jeremy
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: bennett@erich.triumf.ca (P.Bennett)
Subject: Re: Mayday's and Channel 16 use (was Re: snow goose)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 17:35:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.132300.8552@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, reading2@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes...
>In article <ARO.92Aug24135140@csthor.aber.ac.uk>, aro@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Ormsby) writes:
>> 
>> According to the VHF radio operator's course I attended and the latest
>> issue of the UK magazine "Yachting Monthly" this has changed. The
>> definition of distress (where you are allowed to signal "MAYDAY") is
>> now grave and imminent danger to the vessel (or any other craft) _or_
>> a person.
>> 
>> My understanding is that this means it is now permissible to signal
>> MAYDAY if you lose someone overboard, or (for example) you see someone
>> about to drown on a sandbank whereas in the past this would have been
>> strictly incorrect.
>> 
>> --
>> Andy Ormsby, aro@aber.ac.uk
> 
>Well, the Marconi man who examined me was very indignant about this. He claimed
>that this 'change in the rules' was entirely a figment of the RYA (Royal
>Yachting Association) 's collective mind, and that it was causing considerable
>irritation worldwide...
> 
> 
>Ian Johnston (i_johnston @ uk.ac.open.acs.vax, NOT reading2 @ uk.ac.oxford.vax)

I have heard several incidents where the Canadain Coast Guard (Vancouver CG)
treated a medical or man overboard incident as distress (MAYDAY), although the
originator may have called "PanPan".  In one incident, an unoccupied sailboat
was found - presumably the victim was single-handing and fell overboard -
Channel 16 was under "Silence-Mayday" for nearly an hour before the search for
the victim was moved to a Coast Guard working channel.

Peter Bennett VE7CEI                | Vessels shall be deemed to be in sight
Internet: bennett@erich.triumf.ca   | of one another only when one can be
Bitnet:   bennett@triumfer          | observed visually from the other
TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., Canada     |                          ColRegs 3(k)

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: heon@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (garry.j.heon)
Subject: Re: Bayliner Boats (& Doelfins)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:54:30 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.172252.12517@udel.edu>, goodwin@huey.udel.edu (Thomas Goodwin) writes:
> In article <1992Aug24.111247.42525@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> barnhill@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
> >In article <1992Aug20.074408.12723@hemlock.cray.com>, peder@tamarack.cray.com (Peder Sterling) writes:
> 
> There is a good article on boat buying in this months Boating magazine.
> It explains what to look for when buying a boat by going into the details
> of how quality boats are constructed.  There opinion is that the newer
> chopper guns do as good of a job as hand laid fiberglass.
> 
Again, chopper could be just as strong, but what was said about the
weight.  I sure it will be alot heavier than hand laid glass.  The same goes
for coring, the manufacturers only core to save weight.  Strong yet
light boat = more speed, less power, better fuel eff.  Everything
has its tradeoffs.  Coring is expensive and is the added fuel eff.
of a light boat worth the cost.


******************************************
* MY OPINIONS.............AT&T's NETWORK *
*                                        *
* Garry Heon                     AT&T    *
* heon@cbnewsg.att.com       Holmdel, NJ *
******************************************
From: thatchh@hplsla.hp.com (Thatch Harvey)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Winter Boat Storage
Date: 27 Aug 92 22:36:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: hplsla.6140066
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA




        In the Northwest I have seen two types of shelters which
could be useful. One is a frame of semi-circle cross section made of
steel tubing anchored to the ground. The frame is covered with a very
heavy weight plasticized material (much thicker than the blue tarps).
I just checked the price on a 10'X20'X8'  $1100. They can be taken down
and stored fairly easily.  
   The other type is sections of thin fiberglass molded and/or bolted together
to form little barns and sheds. This is less temporary, but may be more sturdy.
I don't have any pricing info. The least expensive is probably the blue tarp
and pvc or wood frame. A pvc frame can be pretty strong if designed well.
Snow slides off of blue tarps pretty well as long as there is some pitch
to the roof.
    A friend of mine with a 21' Sea Ray got a good quality mooring cover
last year and was very pleased with how it wintered.


              Thatch Harvey
From: bloxham@geophysics.harvard.edu (Jeremy Bloxham)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Awesome sailing last weekend, huh?
Date: 4 Sep 92 12:15:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Sep4.121503.22667
Reply-To: bloxham@geophysics.harvard.edu
Organization: Dept. of Earth & Planetary Sciences, Harvard University

In article 92Sep3144232@candide.uchicago.edu, steph@cs.uchicago.edu (Stephen Wilson Bailey) writes:
> Earlier in the season, we've gotten
>hammered whenever it was time for the #3, prompting excuses like
>``This boat's just too heavy in the ends to do well in this stuff'' or
>``That #3 is a dog, well, hey, it's 6 years old...''
>
>Two problems we've found with heavy air trim, is that we've been way
>oversheeting the #3, so there's absolutely no groove.  
>
>Steph

If your #3 is 6 years old and you suffer from next to no groove it
sounds like you may need to really crank the halyard super-tight or
alternatively get your sailmaker to do a "nose-job" on it. It's a shame
otherwise to lose some of the great pointing ability most boats have
with a #3 just to get a wider groove. Also, we find that when making
the change from the H1 to the #3 it's essential to remember to power
the main back-up to avoid sailing in molasses.

Jeremy
From: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Bayliner myths: a challenge
Date: 4 Sep 92 14:28:48 GMT
Reply-To: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Distribution: na
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Annapolis, MD

In rec.boats, rbaist@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (robert.t.baist) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.194942.21346@cbfsb.cb.att.com> heon@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (ga
>rry.j.heon) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep3.190840.26391@cs.ubc.ca>, goldberg@cs.ubc.ca (Murray W. Go
>ldberg) writes:
>
>    <deleted>
>
>At least you go out to the ocean to do this! I sail on Barnegat Bay and when
>I'm out there I get 40' cigarette boats going flat out (80mph+) buzzing me
>by 20 - 30 feet. .........

The ultimate in insanity that I've experienced was during a vacation with
my family several years ago down the Inland Waterway.  We had trailered
down to St. Augustine from Maryland.  After sailing "outside" to Miami on
the last leg, we decided to return "inside" to Ft. Lauderdale to haul out.
It was *Thanksgiving Day* and EVERYONE IN SOUTHERN FLORIDA was in the
water.  (I should've had my head examined.)  Anyway, in several places
this stretch is quite narrow (<<100 ft or so it seemed).  Boats of all
discriptions were often three abreast in each direction, stepping on each
other's heels!  The water was aboil, three-- sometimes four-- foot waves
bounding around between the vertical concrete shoring.  High powered
boats were impatiently gunning their bows into the sky trying get through
the endless parade, somehow figuring they would find daylight ahead.

Saw several "close encounters" in a matter of minutes.  Now what comes
blasting by at (at least) 40 mph?  Not one... not two... but three
of the biggest cigarette boats I've encountered-- RACING EACH OTHER!
In out out, dodging and weaving.  I swear they passed several boat with
less than 3 feet of clearance-- I kid you not!  I was sure someone would
be killed.

A little farther north the fleet began to thin out and we were now only
single file, each way.  During that run of a few hours, probably a dozen
more of these jockeys came screaming by, often "flat out".  I never did
see what I expected-- one of these idiots mashed against the bulkhead
or, worse, stuffed into another boat.  But in all my days of sailing
(and stink potting), which includes a goodly number of 60-80 knot squalls
and storms, I've never been so scared or angry.

If you're wondering why I continued to motor up the river on that day
of insanity-- I had some misguided thoughts of getting home on time
for a critical work schedule.  Today I would never have done it.  Life
is too short.

-- Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J. Hanners         "My comments; only mine."          *DIASTOLE* 676673
CD, NSWC, Annapolis, MD                              hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Re: Changing a name
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 16:40:08 GMT

In article <OLES.92Sep4103732@kelvin.uio.no> oles@kelvin.uio.no (Ole Swang) writes:
>In article 17174@ans.net, hagens@news.ans.net (Robert Hagens) writes:
> 
>> A simple question for all of you: If you buy a used boat, and want to change 
>> the name, is this bad luck?
>
>No, no. But it can be a problem to get the old lettering off. 
>Good hints, anyone? The letters on my (recently aquired) boat
>look like they are of the self-sticking type, but they have
>proven very hard to remove. Of course, one would prefer to
>keep the gelcoat unhurt.
>

The sticky tape is a real problem. With time, it gets baked on
and almost impossible to remove. The biggest problem, however,
is that, once you remove the tape, you may find that you
haven't removed the name - the surrounding paint has faded to
a noticeably different color. It can take years for the effect
to go away. 

I hate the name of my boat ("Synchronicity" - ugh!) but I'm
not touching that tape.

SM
From: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM (Jeff Huntington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Chesapeake Bay Net Gathering
Date: 27 Aug 1992 15:57:51 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: nonsuch.ebay.sun.com

In article l9pqmuINN7n7@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM, dudley@treefort.Corp.Sun.COM (Dudley Gaman) writes:
> In article <137@cherise.UUCP> cbnet-request@cherise.sandr.com (Bob Parkinson) writes:
> >
> >This is the LAST post to rec.boats concerning the Chesapeake Bay Net 
> >Gathering. I apologize for the wasted(?) bandwidth.
> 
> No need to apologize.  I'm interested to see how it is going.  I sure hope there is
> a follow-up report.
> 
> So, when are we going to have a San Francisco Bay Net Gathering?

Dudley,

Great minds must run in the same direction.  :-)  Following is a copy of mail I posted
to Bob, but it bounced.  

Bob,

Why don't you post a summary to the net after the event is over.  I think a lot
of us will be interested in seeing how it turns out.  I think it is a great idea,
and am considering getting something like it going here in the San Francisco bay
area.  My main problem right now is that I am still putting my new boat together.

Maybe next year.

Jeff Huntington
From: rheinze@lrc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Jib furling systems
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:51:35 EDT
Organization: Lenoir-Rhyne College, Hickory, NC

I would like to see a discussion of furling systems for
smaller sailboats - under 25'
Are they overkill on a small cruiser?
What systems work better under what circumstances?
What are the choices?  etc.?
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: hagens@news.ans.net (Robert Hagens)
Subject: Changing a name
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1992 21:41:58 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Advanced Network & Services - Reston, VA


Hi,

A simple question for all of you: If you buy a used boat, and want to change 
the name, is this bad luck?

Rob Hagens
From: dsmith@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (David R. Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Flares
Date: 25 Aug 92 15:59:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: hplabsz.1992Aug25.155937.17406
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories Palo Alto,CA

In article <1992Aug18.133558.27971@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> legacy@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (wayne.m.simpson) writes:
>   For what it's worth, Olin recommends disposing of handheld flares more
>than three years out of date by lighting them and immediately dropping 
>them overboard. I don't remember anything about a pail of water. This may
>not do the trick as the powder, I think, will continue to burn underwater
>and may eat through a plastic bucket.

I finally got around to looking up the flare section of the USCGA book.  It
doesn't say anything about disposal, so I guess the bit about the bucket of
water came from the instructor.  But neither he nor I suggested lighting
the flare before putting it into the bucket.

-- 
David R. Smith, HP Labs | Quality is like buying oats.  If you want only top
dsmith@hpl.hp.com       | quality oats, you must pay a fair price.  However, if
(415) 857-7898          | you can be satisfied with oats that have already been
                        | through the horse once, that comes more cheaply.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: zielke@FOZZIE.NRL.NAVY.MIL (David Zielke)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Winter Boat Storage
Date: 28 Aug 92 14:47:07 GMT

Whatever you do, don't tie the tarp to the supports holding up the boat in
the yard.  Many a boat have fallen over because a jack stand gets pulled out
from under the boat during a windstorm by the tarp.


David Zielke
'Botany Bay'
Cal 35 Hull 006

zielke@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil
From: pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu (Greg Pavlov)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Formula for speed ?
Date: 1 Sep 92 16:47:32 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

In article <1992Aug25.022311.20748@webo.dg.com>, fishman@tracker.rtp.dg.com (Mike Fishman) writes:
> In article <1992Aug21.123256.9165@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> kevin@turbo.Columbia.NCR.COM (Kevin Ormerod) writes:
> >
> >            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >The horsepower rating has nothing to do with the strength of the
> >transom.  It is calculated using a formula based on the length
> >and width of the boat (in most cases).  :-)
> >
> WRONG again Grasshopper. The max horsepower is directly related to the width,
> strength, material and construction of the transom. Otherwise, all 16' long,
> 7; wide boats would have the same limits.. and trust me, they don't..
> 
  The Grasshopper simplified things a bit but essentially he is correct: formal
  hp ratings have nothing to do with the strength of the transom.  HOWEVER, a
  manufacturer may impose his own more restrictive limits, based on factors
  such as what is in the transom.  Obviously, you void whatever meager warranty
  is available to you if you don't follow them.

> 
> (one wonders how and why these guys make things up and why they post them
> "to thousands of users, costing thousands of dollars")


   - so do all of us.  But we all goof every once in a while....

   greg pavlov
   pavlov@fstrf.org
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Subject: Local Notice to Mariners
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 01:17:51 GMT


My wife pointed out the following to me:

In the August 1992 District I Local Notices to Mariners:

Chart 13218, Martha's Vinyard to Block Island
Change least known depth from 30 feet to 28 feet
			   41.26.02.9 N 071.00.29.1 W
Change least known depth from 30 feet to 27 feet
  .
  .
  .
etc.

(I've approximated the degrees-minutes-seconds and tenths symbols). 
Just thought others might be amused, in view of the QEII discussion
lately. 

-John
From: erck03@castle.ed.ac.uk (John Wexler)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Depth Sounders
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:19:40 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University Computing Service

A few people have expressed a preference for the rotary neon display
that has been common on low-cost echo-sounders, rather than the digital
read-out.  It is perhaps worth mentioning that there are now models with
an analogue read-out that looks like the rotary neon, but which work
digitally.  These give the obvious benefits of the analogue display*, but
they don't show the complicated multiple echos, waverings and vague
responses that were familiar on the old system.  If you want a simple
clear read-out, they are great.  If you have got used to interpreting
the strange things that can appear on the rotary neons, then the new
ones will not give you so much information.  Personally, I have no
preferences and no recommendations. I will happily use whatever is
provided on any boat that I sail on.  For my own use, I am going to buy
a lead line.

    John Wexler
    Edinburgh

* You can read them from a distance; you can read them in more difficult
lighting conditions; you see easily when the depth is increasing or reducing.
From: paul@ee.rochester.edu (Paul Osborne)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Depth Sounders
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:44:49 GMT
Organization: Univ of Rochester, College of Engineering and Applied Science

In article <petere-310892130757@129.83.90.13> petere@tesla.mitre.org (Peter D. Engels) writes:
>In article <1992Aug27.213940.4798@ultb.isc.rit.edu>,
>jrcodl@ritvax.isc.rit.edu wrote:
>> 
>> I am in the market for a depth sounder for my sailboat.  I have noticed
>> that those simple ones marketed for sailboats cost more than the lower
>> cost fishfinders with speed and log functions.  I also fish from my boat
>> so the fish function would be of some use.
>> Is there reason *NOT* to use a fishfinder type with a transom mount on
>> my boat
>> What are the experiences out there?
>> John
>The *fishfinder* type depthsounders work fine on all boats; however,
>transom-mounted transducers are really only suitable for very low speeds
>(less than two knots or so), due to cavitation at higher sppeds.  Pay the
>extra for a thruhull transducer, and you're set.
>.  

	I went through this same thing last year. I went with digital sounder
from Data Marine. I did mount the transducer on the inside of the hull. This 
can ONLY be done if the hull is solid glass. works fine.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mwhhlaw!tim (Timothy E. Hollingsworth)
Subject: Re: porta-potti
Reply-To: uunet!mwhhlaw!tim
Organization: Martin Wade Hartley & Hollingsworth
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:29:07 GMT

I seems to me that people who sail over and swim in water would care a lot  
about its quality.  Some of us had the unfortunate pleasure to sail over Lake  
Erie before massive cleanup efforts returned it back from the open sewer it had  
become.  For years we have known that the Chesapeake was particularly venerable  
to pollution.  Last I heard, the states and everyone, else was trying to blame  
the other guy.  Meanwhile, the most furtile body of water on earth goes down  
the tank.

--
Tim Hollingsworth
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: dwl@watson.ibm.com (David W. Levine)
Subject: Calculating time to go on Lorans (Was: Re: Recomend good LORAN ???)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1992 17:21:23 GMT
Reply-To: dwl@watson.ibm.com 
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center

Of course, in tidal waters, your time to go has to include the projected
current for the next N hours as well, now doesn't it? Frankly, given
that unless you've got terribly consistent conditions, the number's nothing
more than a rough guess, the best thing to do is know what the loran's
telling you and use it as an input to your thinking about the whole
navigational situation. 

David W. Levine      -- IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center
dwl@watson.ibm.com   -- (914) 784-7427 

My Opinions, IBM's hardware. --