From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
Subject: Re: does anybody want ME?
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 04:31:57 GMT

In article <BxMuDD.J6D@twwells.com> anon-1016@twwells.com (Prisoner) writes:
>Nancy Lebovitz writes:
>: In article <BxLt4p.CMz@twwells.com> anon-1016@twwells.com (Prisoner) writes:
>: >Don't read this unless you're able to deal with nasty stuff....
>: >
>: >Yeah, everyone wants a piece of me. My wife wants me to be kind
>: >and caring, so I oblige. The people at work want the products of
>: >my mind, so I'm giving it to them. Those who run stuff through my
>: >computer want service and help, so I do my best. And on it goes.
>: >People want my skills. But no one wants ME.
>:
>: How do you know? You've been keeping yourself invisible from everyone.
>
>Well, there's two answers to that. One is that those are my
>feelings and their validity has nothing to do with whether they
>reflect reality or not. But the other is that I've had my nose
>rubbed in it often enough.
>
>OK, I'm going to be daring.
>
>When I was at Magicon, I stayed away from the places where people
>who knew me as Prisoner were, not being able to deal with anyone
>at that level. I figured you'd be in the dealers room and so hit
>the booksellers and then got out and stayed out. (Kind of
>assuming of me that you'd be there but anyway....) I'm going to
>be at Philcon this weekend; will you?
>
Yes. Stop by the table by all means. I can't guarantee that there'll
be an emotional connection, but I'd like to meet you.

>: >all and go with my feelings, to tell the people at work, my wife,
>: >the people who rely on my computer, to FUCK OFF, that I'm TIRED of
>: >trying to be when all that being is is pain or numbness or
>: >unconsciousness. I really don't know what it is that keeps me
>: >going. I can't pretend that it's a sense of obligation or what.
>:
>: Have you tried eliminating all activities that aren't essential
>: to keeping your life going?
>
>Huh. I spend 90% of my waking hours on work. That is, when I can
>work. Otherwise, I spend that time distracting myself from my
>feelings. The rest of the time is spent paying attention to my
>wife, doing administrative stuff on the computer, and going to
>the occasional social event. That's it. What's to eliminate?

Maybe the time spent distracting yourself from your feelings?  
Basically, though it's your schedule--you consider it.

>:                              How about bodywork to find out what
>: your body/life is like without all that tension?
>
>I do know what that is like. Just before things went bad with the
>situation with Relkie, I had one night at the rink where I was
>actually in my body....

Pretty neat, isn't it?

>: I have my own problems with expressing anger, but sometimes it
>: helps to figure out what the current infuriation is and change
>: my circumstances--I think that rage (the desire to destroy
>: everything within reach) is based in feeling helpless.
>
>Well, of course. But I don't think that my feelings are really
>directed at anything specific. Yes, there are specific things
>that make me angry but the rage I feel isn't caused by them; it's
>a product of everything that's gone before.
>
>: I don't believe that your pain is any sort of a fake. I believe that
>: when people are badly traumatized (whether by another person or by
>: circumstances), they can get physically/emotionally stuck in the
>: moment of horror. A major way of getting out is by paying attention
>: to the present, both one's internal states and one's sensory input.
>
>It is also an excellent way to deny one's past. Another one of
>those half empty/half full things.

I think that if you pay close attention to your present internal
states, you'll find that the past is included in them.

>: >Mind's wandering. Of course, that's what I'm trying to make it
>: >do. If I engage my intellect, you'll all just hate me again.
>:
>: I don't hate you, and I didn't hate you when you were in your
>: more intellectual mode.
>
>As with the first comment, those're my feelings. But you recall

You don't describe them as feelings--you describe them as predictions
of how people will behave.

>the furor over some of the things I've written, I'm sure. Whether
>or not anyone else wants to believe it, when people tell me to
>shut up because they can't deal with what I have to say, that
>feels like rejection. And when they don't even have the guts to
>say that but instead whine about how what I've said is an attack
>on them, with only the implication that I ought to shut up, that
>hurts even worse; it feels like the sort of manipulation that
>I've suffered before.

Since I can't remember exactly what you and other people have said,
I don't want to deal with this. One thing that concerns me is that,
while I'd like to meet you at Philcon, I can't guarentee that I'll
like you, and I don't want to be used as a representative of the
whole rejecting human race. I'm not sure that the chance of that
is avoidable.

>: >What to do with this malevolent monster? Stuff it back? But that's
>: >death. He is me and what I have to deal with. Let it out? You've
>: >already driven me away, for much less an offense. I can do neither
>: >so I do a little of both and find that as with any compromise, I
>: >get the worst of both alternatives. I neither let it out and I am
>: >distanced anyway.
>:
>: Is there anything that it would be safe for you to let your
>: destructiveness out on? (I mean something like cheap crockery.)
>: (I realize that this wouldn't be as strong as destroying every-
>: thing, but it might do some good.)
>
>I dunno. But there's no obvious place where I could do something
>like that....and I think that I'd better have someone around if I
>do try it.
>
>: Have you considered writing about all this as truthfully and
>: fully as you can (in a secure notebook)?
>
>Well, I keep everything I post and I've written a lot that I
>could never post. Typing is a lot more natural than writing for
>me. Does that count? :-)
>
>:                                          It seems to me that, in
>: this post, you're pulled between wanting to communicate and
>: believing that you can't.
>
>Daren't.
>
Thanks for clarifying--I have a feeling that it took a fair amount
of courage for you to say that.

>:                            In a notebook, you could be clear
>: that you're writing to make yourself understandable to you.
>
>I've done things like that before, including doing various
>exercises from some psychological workbooks; it didn't help. On
>the other hand, I didn't try that hard. Sigh.

This stuff can be a thoroughly miserable amount of work. The only
thing that justifies it is that (if it works), it's suffering that
actually improves your life instead of the same old repetition.

>: I don't like seeing you in so much pain, but I'd been wondering
>: how you were doing. I can't save you, but (for no very obvious
>: reason) I rather like you. Us rage-filled intellectuals have to
>: stick together or something.
>
>Something. Anyway, I'm glad to hear that you don't loath me. I
>recall just before Magicon you wrote that you wouldn't get to see
>what I had to say in response to Relkie and that you'd like a
>summary. I've been feeling like what I wrote wouldn't explain
>anything to anyone; hell, I've left out so much of what actually
>happened that I'm sure that no one really understands. Anyway,
>grounded in reality or not, I've felt that after hearing that
>that you'd be just as pissed as most everyone else was.

Maybe, maybe not. There's also the possibility that I'd think
you'd seriously fucked up but weren't a monster.

>Which brings up another point that I've not been able to make
>myself say. I'm pretty sure that we've met once or twice over a
>dealers table at a con; I'm also pretty sure that you've met my
>wife and may actually know her. Worse, however, is that there are
>some people in her life that I *know* that you know. And therein
>lies the problem. Some of the things that I am dealing with
>involve my wife and those people, at least peripherally. To talk
>about them means revealing things that I know they don't want
>talked about and that they have every right to not have me
>reveal. That wasn't a problem when I was anonymous but now that
>that self-justifying, self-righteous bastard has broken my
>anonymity, it is. Any suggestions?

I've been thinking about coming back in anonymously myself. You
could come in under a new pseudonym.

>: >You know, I've not been totally out of contact; I've tried to
>: >keep e-mail contact and the occasional phone contact. But it isn't
>: >helping. I'm not real. It's all fake. It feels fake and it looks
>: >fake.
>:
>: I've felt considerably more "moved in" in this universe since I've
>: been paying more attention to my breathing and my senses. (This is
>: a 10 year+ project that is by no means done, but it's been worth
>: the trouble.)
>
>Hm. I on the other hand am probably a bit too attuned to the
>outside. You get that way when you believe that at any moment
>someone is going to step up behind you and zap you. Ain't
>paranoia wonderful?

I believe that the most powerful thing is to pay attention to the
inside and the outside simultaneously.

>: Also, all this lying you've been doing may be part of what's
>: making you feel unreal.
>
>Oh, I know, I know. One of those Objectivist principles that no
>one seems to grasp: going past all the other ethical reasons why

Apparently, I grasped it, and you grasped it, so it isn't no one.

>one shouldn't be dishonest with others, the essential reason that
>one shouldn't be dishonest is that the habit of dishonesty
>destroys one's contact with reality. I feel unreal because my own
>perceptions are so distorted by my habits that I *cannot* see
>myself. I need to stop it. Somehow.
>
>: >Oh, goddamn. Whining and, soon I'll bet, sulking. Well, maybe not.
>: >I've been awake 24 hours and maybe I'll get to sleep before I do
>: >that. I hope so. Welcome to my life.
>:
>: Treat yourself as gently as you can stand , even in some small
>: matter.  (I know it's very difficult and probably terrifying, but
>: it might get you off the treadmill.)
>
>It's a funny thing. More than one person has said: do something
>nice for yourself; I've been thinking about that. The thing is is
>that I can't figure out what that would be. There are damned few
>things I've taken joy in and all of them involve something else
>that causes me pain as well. Aargh.

My best advice on this is to keep thinking about it--it's important.
This is just a guess, but I think that your mental habit is to focus
on pain. There may be some little source of pleasure in your life 
that you aren't taking seriously, or something that you used to 
enjoy (perhaps as a child) that you've let slide away.

I've got to get ready for Philcon. See you there?

Nancy