HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: China never as prosperous as Europe?
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Keywords: predestination
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 19:49:10 GMT

In article <t2wj1vj.kemnitz@netcom.com> kemnitz@netcom.com (Greg Kemnitz)
writes:
>In article <1992Apr12.005212.6475@leland.Stanford.EDU>
underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>You can lay your suspensions to rest.
>>
>>At no point in Chinese history has China ever been as prosperous
>>and well off as the USA or Western Europe.  Even if you reach back
>>3000 years like the way many China-philes like to do, you will find
>>that China was far worse than modern Western society.  There was
>>no penicillin, no antibiotics, no Bill of Rights, no human decency
>>(but that's always been true, hasn't it?), etc. in China.
>
>This contradicts the observations of Europeans who visited China in the from
>the fourteenth century to the time of Napoleon.  Up until about the mid
>nineteenth century, China was in many ways better off than Europe.
>...

I meant that "At no point in Chinese history has China ever been 
as prosperous and well off as the [MODERN = 20th century] USA
or Western Europe".  Mr. Kemnitz is doing what basically many people
who identify with Chinese culture like to do.  Namely, in reponse
to the charge that Chinese society is inferior to the West, they
reach back centuries ago to find some point in time at which the Chinese
did okay for that period of history.

But I say, let f(t, s) = relative figure of accomplishment, where
"t" is an element of (start of time, 1992] and "s" is an element of 
the set of all nations.  Then f(1992, USA) >> f(t, China) for
ALL values of "t".  On the other hand, the Chinese like to play the
following game:  the Chinese want to fix "t" at some point in 
history like, say, "t = 10" and to say that China is great.  Baloney.

I stand by my statment.  "At no point in Chinese history has China ever
been as prosperous and well off as the USA or Western Europe."  "Well
off" does not refer only to the economic sense although many Chinese
people are narrow-minded enough to think that.  "Well off" also refers
to things like "equality of the sexes" and "freedom of speech".

Back in "t = 10", respect for "freedom of speech" and "equality of
the sexes" in China was worse than in today's China, where those
ideals still aren't respected.  Even today, human decency in Chinese
society is still nonexistent for the most part.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi ha nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: upsi1@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (Mathew Waywe Yee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Oriental bias against Indians ? How true ?
Date: 12 Apr 92 21:42:35 GMT
Distribution: usa

In <70164@ut-emx.uucp> vishram@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Vishram P.Dalvi) writes:
>        I had not meant to bring up this issue on SCAA, BUT I did
>because the response from the girl seemed to indicate that my friends
>opinion MIGHT be true indeed ! (I did have the courage to ask !) and
>that's what set me thinking seriously. 
Seems that you got turned down by this girl for the very reasons your
"friends" said that you would.  I'm glad that you did ask her.  Like
I said before, the worst she could do is insult you, which it sounds like
she did.  Since she is incapable of looking beyond your skin color, she's
probably not worth knowing.

>        Is it the same with Chinese too ? How social are Chinese people ?
>One of my friends from Hongkong was applying to Medical School and when
>he sought my help for something, he was totally surprised to find that
>my room-mates too came forward to help him with what ever they could. He
>told me that this would have NEVER happened with the Chinese guys he
>knew. No intentions to offend any body here, but I am curious to know
>how true it is.
Well..., my experience is that many of the Asian students here at UCSB
have a tendancy to be withdrawn if they are foreign nationals.  I find
that many of them are still a bit reserved with me even though I am
Chinese (Yeah Dwight, I'm Chinese and DAMN PROUD of it!!!!) because I'm
American.  I'm not sure why this is true but, I suspect that it is because
of the Chinese GOVERNMENT that the Chinese students are withdrawn.  The rest
of the Asian students, I'm not too sure what their particular hang up happens
to be.


--
Mathew Wayne Yee
upsi1@mcl.ucsb.edu              or                    psi1@engrhub.ucsb.edu
SATAN in 1992!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't believe in voting for the lesser evil.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:3719 soc.culture.taiwan:7613 soc.culture.china:13216
From: s9874203@titan.ucc.umass.edu (s9874203)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: UNDERDOG:  WAKE UP AND OPEN YOUR MIND.
Date: 17 Apr 92 19:42:32 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst

In article <1992Apr17.101644.54577@cc.usu.edu> haoc@cc.usu.edu writes:
>I wrote:
>> In article <1992Apr15.013941.13394@medsys.rn.com> bbs@medsys.UUCP (Public BBS System) writes:
>>>In article <1992Apr12.005212.6475@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>>>
>
>>>That is right. And so many Chinese praise Confucius I simply cannot understand
>>>why. Did Confucius know anything about group theory? Did he know anything
>>>about solving differential equations? Did he speak English? I doubt very
>>>much if he even knew how to ride a bicycle, not mentioning driving a car.
>>>
>>>Chou1
>>>
>                                           
>> You seem to be a mathematician. Then answer the following questions:
>
>> ...
>> I feel sad for your logic.:-(
>
>   which is common for all mathematicians.
>
>--Hao. 

My apology to Chou1. He meant to be sarcastic. Sometimes I cannot
distinguish the sarcastic comments from stupid comments because the
latter one are too frequently seen in this newsgroup (I contributed one
of them :-).
From: houch@cavern.mitre.org (Jim Houchens)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Question about "at what point does it become our business"
Date: 31 Mar 92 16:51:58 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The MITRE Corporation

yumei@wam.umd.edu (Yumei Sun) writes:

[... Context is that Yumei believes so-called "Mail-Order" bride
     arrangements are immoral and should be abolished...]

>Well, at this stage, only women are being "purchased."  If I wanted to
>object to mail order marriages in general, I'd have done some more work
>to figure out its social impact etc.  For now, my objection largely lies
>in the fact that it is the women that are being changed hands.

I kind of question how much you know about these arrangements.  A
large percentage of these women are from the Philippines.  Several
agencies take out ads in Manila newspapers which closely resemble the
ads in the U.S. -- "American men want to meet Filipinas for marriage:
send picture and Bio-data to blah-blah-blah."  Most agencies do not
ask the women to pay anything.  They print names and a short biography
(and sometimes print pictures) in a pamphlet which the send to men
responding to like ads in the U.S. and Canada.  Either the pamphlet
has the women's addresses (and costs a bunch) or the pamphlet costs no
more than a few bucks, but the interested man has to pay to get the address.
After that, it's up to the two to write back and forth and decide if
they want to marry.  The man really must travel to meet the women
before making marriage plans, as the INS frowns upon petitions for
Fiancee visas in cases where the two have not met in person.

I dispute your "fact" that the women are "changing hands."  It's
really no different the Boston "Dating Pages" except it is the women
who advertise and the men who respond.

While I would not choose to meet a potential wife this way, I feel I
(and you) do not have the right to tell anyone that it is wrong.

-- Jim
From: lkoh@elman.austin.ibm.com (Lisa Koh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: UT Austin: Alpha Chi Picnic Sat Apr 11
Keywords: DON'T MISS OUT!!
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:21:13 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Alpha Chi



ATTN ALL THRILL SEEKERS AT UT AUSTIN:

Alpha Chi, the Asian American Social Organization at UT
is having a tennis tournament this weekend at the
intramural tennis courts.  (Fri, Sat, & Sun)

Also, on Saturday April 11 at 5:00 at the courts,
we are having a BARBECUE PICNIC featuring BBQ brisket &
potato salad!!  (ALL YOU CAN EAT!!)
This BBQ is ***FREE*** for all AX members!!
Non-members are also more than welcome, but will have
to fork over a nominal fee.

Don't Miss Out!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: rtang@sunee.waterloo.edu (He who must not be Named.)
Subject: Re: Will America fall?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 18:04:17 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.005256.4868@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>This is a ludicrous comparison.  Mr. Huang is comparing Japanese
>gangs in Japan with Chinese gangs in the USA.  USA is not the
>home turf of Chinese but is fast becoming one.  A fair comparison
>would be between Chinese gangs in Hong Kong (and other unfortunate
>strongholds of Chinese society) and Japanese gangs in Japan.
Never miss an opportunity to take a shot at chinese SOCIETY, do you? 

>As I've said before, the model minority concept might apply to
>the Japanese-Americans and Korean-Americans, but it certainly doesn't
The stereotype shouldnt apply to anyone, if you want to be
politically correct.  But then I don't expect you to be.
Kissing Japanese and Korean American ass' isnt going to get you anywhere
except a mouth full of shit. 

>apply to Chinese-Americans.  A visit to Chinatown should convince
>you.  (I've been told by a couple of Chinese to stay away from
>Chinatown, a very unsafe place--"thanks" to Chinese culture.)
Wow, you actually listened to someone who is chinese.  I don't
believe it.  As for chinatown being unsafe, it has nothing to do
with culture.  Or are you a new-born female, afraid of "chinese
infanticide."  
In case you haven't figured it out, crime makes ANYPLACE unsafe.

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Seikatsu no imi ha nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
>Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
Don't be a hypocrit, you are anything but accepting of new ideas.
Especially those that dont conform to your dream world.  On second
thoughts maybe you should ask the above. 'cause you certainly don't have a clue
what the meaning of life is.
From: vishram@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Vishram P.Dalvi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Oriental bias against Indians ? How true ?
Date: 12 Apr 92 03:41:19 GMT
Reply-To: vishram@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Vishram P.Dalvi)
Distribution: usa
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: vishram@happy.cc.utexas.edu

This is in response to a few replies that I received from various
people on this newsgroup.

        I had not meant to bring up this issue on SCAA, BUT I did
because the response from the girl seemed to indicate that my friends
opinion MIGHT be true indeed ! (I did have the courage to ask !) and
that's what set me thinking seriously. 
	I am no racist but I do think that most Asians (whether from 
Asia or born here) do have a much more understanding attitude towards 
life and friends as compared to a lot of Americans. What I mean to say 
is that WE take life with much more seriousness than THEM. I have also 
noticed atleast amongst Indians that they are very adaptible to new 
environments and people and that's what makes it so easy for us to move 
in with totally unknown people when we come here and also to let strange 
people stay with us (like new arrivals from our country) even when we 
don't know them at all back in India and also to play mentors when ever
the need arises.
        Is it the same with Chinese too ? How social are Chinese people ?
One of my friends from Hongkong was applying to Medical School and when
he sought my help for something, he was totally surprised to find that
my room-mates too came forward to help him with what ever they could. He
told me that this would have NEVER happened with the Chinese guys he
knew. No intentions to offend any body here, but I am curious to know
how true it is.

vishram
From: tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Engineers (was Re: Asian Immigrants on SAT English)
Date: 17 Apr 92 19:13:42 GMT
Organization: University of California, Davis / LLNL

In article <1992Apr17.171452.1487@cs.tulane.edu> jordan@cs.tulane.edu (Misti Jordan) writes:
->In article <MDAY.92Apr16103834@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu>, mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day) writes:
->>
->>
->> Do people really think this is true?
->>
->> A lot depends on what we mean by a "good" engineer.  Sometimes people
->> think that a good engineer is someone who, working alone, gets the
->> right answer to a problem.  Unfortunately, for real engineers this
->> skill is much less important than understanding an ill-formed problem,
->> solving a problem with a team of other people, and convincing others
->> to accept the solution.  None of those is possible without
->> communication skills.
->>
->> So I don't believe what either of the above people agreed on: that you
->> can be a good engineer despite lacking communication skills.  You can
->> succeed in engineering school despite poor communication skills, but
->> that's a different matter.
->>
->> --Mark Day
->>
->> mday@lcs.mit.edu
->
->I agree with Mark.  I worked at an Engineering firm over one summer, and
->I know that you have to be able to work well in a group.  Although each
->person is assigned a specific task of a project, he/she has to be able
->to talk to the other engineers so everyone's individual tasks will click
->together in the end.  Also, through good communication skills, you can
->get management positions and be able to form friendships easier with
->co-workers.  I'm not trying to say that people don't become friends with
->people with poor communication skills.  I'm saying it's easier to form
->friendships with people that have good ones.
->
->-Jenny

Well, I understand what you said.  It all depends on where you are.  I
believe what you said is very true in the east coast.  However, in the
Silicon Valley Asian population is very large.  Most of my Chinese/
Chinese American friends have friends from work that are Chinese also,
not to mention all other Asians.  And yes, they are working in American
firms.  With Japanese taking over US companies, many Chinese are also
taking Japanese classes.  So English might not be the only way you can
communicate with people.  Get ready for future...

--
Terry Cheung
tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov
From: hyx1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Reclaiming our heritage (was: Oriental bias against Indians...)
Keywords: Considerate
Date: 13 Apr 92 01:24:49 GMT
Organization: Columbia University

chin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin) writes:
>
>Right on!  Being so Americanized, we can only think of our immediate
>self-interests.  :-/

	Right on!  U r the 1st one here to show that u hold the same belief
	as I.  Yes.
	Being Americanized = being less considerate.

====================================>.sig <====================================
  Harry Xu  (KB2LHA)	   Internet:  hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
 *Columbia University Amateur Radio Club (CUARC-<>-W2AEE)  *Founded, 1913*
 *The American Radio Relay League:  Amateur Radio >>---> A National Resource
 *New York Road Runners Club  -&-  Columbia University Road Runners Club 
  ::::::"Go run.  Nothing else can make you feel as good as making love."  --ME
====================================> end <====================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (James Pak)
Subject: Chinatown unsafe? (was Re: Will America fall?)
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 19:13:53 GMT

In article <122022@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov writes:
In article <1992Apr8.005256.4868@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>...
>>apply to Chinese-Americans.  A visit to Chinatown should convince
>>you.  (I've been told by a couple of Chinese to stay away from
>>Chinatown, a very unsafe place--"thanks" to Chinese culture.)
>
>Yes.  I used to go to Chinatown and am hesitant to go there now.
>There are many gang related incidents.

Is this true?  Is Chinatown (SF) more unsafe than it was, say, five years ago?
I'd like to know since I'll be visiting the BA this summer and I'd like to go
to Chinatown if I can but I'd rather not get caught in the middle of a cross-
fire.  [wry :-)]

Thanks,

Jim
-- 
(Do not listen to the address on the header.  My correct email address is: )
jpak@manute.sps.mot.com  or  ...!cs.utexas.edu!oakhill!manute!jpak
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go)
Subject: Re: Oriental bias against Indians ? How true ?
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, Rice University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 21:28:24 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.125928.6428@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu Ayala) writes:
>In article <it1.702970865@Ra.MsState.Edu> it1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Tim Tsai) writes:
>>shay@osiris (George Shay) writes:
>>[...]
>>
>>  That's interesting.  Whenever I talk to females on the network
>>(mostly initiated on the other end.  I don't much care for
>>chit-chats, especially over the computer), and usually within 10
>>sentences I will mention that I'm Asian.  9 out of 10 times you
>>can see the tone change immediately.  I never desired to meet
>>any of them anyway, so this doesn't bother me (Don't believe in
>>computer dating).  It's always interesting to note the changes
>>nonetheless.
>>
>  I've never noticed any discrimination over the net about
>  computer chatting.  I've asked all sorts of question in
>  the Amiga groups and people from all over the world are
>  only too glad to help.  I have an obviously Asian last
>  name Chu, and I've tacked on my husband's last name which
>  is Spanish.  Most computer conversations peter out after
>  the topic of interest has been hashed out.  However I've
>  had guys mail me diskettes with their favorite public
>  domain software, mail me sample printouts, call me up
>  when they were in town, ask me if I'm single, etc.  People
>  sometimes compliment me on articles I've posted in misc.kids
>  or back in the old days, in soc.singles.  I'm sure everyone
>  knew that I am Asian all along.  This is the only newsgroup
>  where people have flamed me.  I don't know why I bother,
>  but I guess I do want to keep up with what other Asian Americans
>  are up to.  :-(

I'd say part of the reason why people are nicer to you is because you're
female.  (I will go no further on this thread because the CM/AF thread has
been beaten to death.)  Since most of the people on the net are male, it
is natural that a female would get a generally better reaction than a male.

I, too, have had the situation in which people have stopped writing upon
learning my ethnicity (or gender).
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ar2j+@andrew.cmu.edu (Anthony Russell Rosania)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Reclaiming our heritage (was: Oriental bias against Indians...)
Date: 13 Apr 92 03:42:44 GMT
Organization: Freshman, Drama, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.asian.american: 13-Apr-92 Re:
Reclaiming our heritage.. Harry Y Xu@cunixa.cc.col (794)

> .....Being Americanized = being less considerate.


I REALLY, REALLY, HATE this comment   , it is a blatant over
generalization, that need not appear on this Board. Of course if you
consider yourself American then you just proved yourself right just
there, if you consider yourself Asian, you just proved that Asians can
be just as inconsiderate as Americans. 


						Ant
From: achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Movie/Book Ratings Ballot 4/92
Date: 15 Apr 92 23:49:23 GMT
Organization: Dept of Mathematics, Texas A&M University

Here's the second posting of the s.c.a.a Movie/Book Ratings Ballot.
It's the same as last time except for six new movies.  If 
you voted last time, you need only vote on the new movies.

You can type them into the template below if that will help.  Also, 
you can suggest additions; however, my decision will be final.
The ballot will aim to include all films and books (a) of particular 
interest to Asian-Americans and (b) that have been frequently 
discussed in this group.  These may include Asian films and books 
of high quality that have received US exposure.

Send EMAIL.  DON'T post replies.

Rating  Film
[0-10]

[    ]  Iron and Silk
[    ]  King and I, The
[    ]  Sixteen Candles
[    ]  South Pacific
[    ]  Wayne's World
[    ]  World of Suzy Wong, The

[    ]  Akira Kurosawa's Dreams
[    ]  Armor of God
[    ]  Better Tomorrow, A
[    ]  Boat People
[    ]  Chan is Missing
[    ]  Chicken and Duck Talk
[    ]  Chinese Ghost Story, A
[    ]  Come See the Paradise
[    ]  Days of Being Wild
[    ]  Dim Sum
[    ]  Eat a Bowl of Tea
[    ]  Empire of the Sun
[    ]  Encounters of the Spooky Kind
[    ]  Family Game, The
[    ]  Father and Son
[    ]  Funeral, The
[    ]  God of Gamblers
[    ]  Great Wall, A
[    ]  Gung Ho
[    ]  Homecoming
[    ]  Ju Dou
[    ]  Kagemusha (The Shadow Warrior)
[    ]  Karate Kid, The (I-III)
[    ]  Killer, The
[    ]  Killing Fields, The
[    ]  Last Emporer, The
[    ]  Long Arm of the Law
[    ]  Love and Death in Saigon
[    ]  Love in a Fallen City
[    ]  Mishima
[    ]  Mississippi Masala
[    ]  Mr. Vampire
[    ]  Mystery Train
[    ]  90 Days
[    ]  Ping Pong
[    ]  Ran
[    ]  Rashomon
[    ]  Red Sorghum
[    ]  Rouge
[    ]  Seven Samurai, The
[    ]  Shanghai Blues
[    ]  Summer at Grandpa's, A
[    ]  Tampopo
[    ]  Taxing Woman, A
[    ]  Taxing Woman's Return, A
[    ]  Throne of Blood
[    ]  Yellow Earth
[    ]  Yojimbo

Rating  Book
[0-10]
[    ]  Ancestors (Chin)
[    ]  Children of the Pearl (Bezine)
[    ]  China Boy (Lee)
[    ]  China Men (Hong Kingston)
[    ]  Donald Duk (Chin)
[    ]  Floating World, The (Kadohata)
[    ]  Joy Luck Club, The (Tan)
[    ]  Kitchen God's Wife, The (Tan)
[    ]  Legacies:  A Chinese Mosaic (Bao Lord)
[    ]  Tripmaster Monkey (Hong Kingston)
[    ]  Wild Swans:  Three Daughters of China (Chang)
[    ]  Woman Warrior, The (Hong Kingston)

Send EMAIL.  DON'T post replies.
-- 
Andrew Chin    Dept. of Math.    Texas A&M U.    College Station, TX 77843
achin@math.tamu.edu   Probably not TAMU's exact opinions.   (409) 845-1924
                * Fighting racism is not a special interest *



-- 
Andrew Chin    Dept. of Math.    Texas A&M U.    College Station, TX 77843
achin@math.tamu.edu   Probably not TAMU's exact opinions.   (409) 845-1924
                * Fighting racism is not a special interest *
From: melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (I'm a Stairmasters Junkie)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: re Up and Coming Oriental-American Comedian
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:48:17 GMT
Reply-To: melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (I'm a Stairmasters Junkie)
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: thedarktower.corp.sun.com


	underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) :
	> In any event, they are probably both funnier than
	> the moron who appeared in "Father of the Bride."  That 
	> moron was not funny at all.

What moron are you talking about?

	Melinda