From: 9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au (The Eidolon)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Immortality
Date: 7 Nov 92 00:42:39 +1030
Organization: That damn kid is still here!
NNTP-Posting-Host: sirius.itd.adelaide.edu.au
Originator: daemon@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au

In article <t8c1xs_@rpi.edu>, johnsd2@jec314.its.rpi.edu (Daniel Norman Johnson) writes:

> |> >|> Err...I'm 18, and I know that I'm going to die. Sweeping generalizations are 
> |> >|> rarely correct.
> |>
> |> >Im 19, and I also know Im going to die. But, I can't really
> |> >visualize it. For me, its vague and distant.
> |> 	I am almost 20.
> 
> Anybody out there who's 21? :)
> (c'mon.. lets see how far we can take this..)

Hey, I am 20! We are getting there!

> Well, you do have one, but its not a very big one. If you assume that
> your senses give you an accurate portrayal of the world around
> you, you can see that other people act very much like you do. Very
> much as if they were concious. For me, this is good enough. (conversely,
> if something acts as if it was NOT concious, I generally assume it isn't.
> Hence, dead people aren't, imho, concious)

Agreed. You think you exist. Why not? You think so why shouldn't you
be existing? If this is a dream then what constitutes real existance?
(look out below....)

> If you don't so assume, I think that makes you a "Sophist" (sp?), right?
> Don't believe ANYTHING wo/ proof, even your senses? Only thing you know
> is that you exist?

Yeah, if you ask me, that is a VERY self-important view to take, almost
downright arrogant.

Since we have now come to the conclusion that, based on the fact
that one can think, you exist. This only shows that you, the
thinker exists. Next question: If you exist, which includes your
physical form, then it seems reasonable that what you survey also
exists. Wether or not what you survey is an accurate representation
or not, the fact that they can be percieved is proof that they do
exists in one form or another. If it's a fabrication, then there
MUST have been a fabricator. If it wasn't you, then there is 
definately someone else around. To believe that it's all to trick
you somehow is very paranoid so until further evidence which indicates
otherwise, the logical conclusion is that not only do you exist but
other people and other things do also.

> Well, once again there is circumstatial evidence that the world existed
> before you did- there appear to be people claiming to have been around
> before you were born. (or for that matter before your first memory)

According to Young Earth Creationsists, all the fossils that say they
were around ARE lying - which means God is lying. Oh dear. No wonder
they are all morons.

> You do have some evidence that you will cease to live, in that it seems
> to be happening to everyone else, and it would be quite odd for you
> to be exempt.

Uhuh. Odd, but not impossible. How did natural death start in
the first place? I know about evolution bringing life to a
stop since there are no resoureces etc, but exactly where did
natural death come from? WHY do we age? Did life burst up several
times and die from starvation until it had the quirk of death,
or what? I now what happens if we don't die, but how did dying
actually come about?

> I never understood why people insist on separating out "you" from
> your body. I see no evidence that our "selves" are separate things,
> and not merely an artifact of the functioning of our brains. (or,
> alternately, a feature of this functioning. Not sure myself)

Agreed. Life is a chemical reaction and the 'soul' cannot be
separated from one's physical brain (there's a bodacious Star Trek
thread down in .moderated which discusses this).

> There is even some evidence (if you believe your senses, as I do) that
> they are at least intimately connected, as dammage to your body can
> result in (apparant) damage to your "self". (don't believe me?
> Get yourself a frontal lobotomy and find out firsthand! :) )

> You never know. You have no conclusive evidence that it will hurt. Unless
> you've been hit by one. Even if you have, can't trust yer senses. Might
> have been some sort of abberation last time. :)

I saw a cool cartoon stuck on the wall of a physics lab: there were
two skiers, one is down past a pole with a single track swerving
around each side of it and the other is staring dumbfounded at the
first who is none the worse for wear!!

DYK, according to the Ramsauer effect, this is actually possible!!!!!
EXTREMELY remote of course but it CAN happen.
(don't laugh, I have perfomed the experiment myself and I assure
it DOES work).

So there you go, there is physical evidence to support the idea
that an oncoming truck will tunnel through you and leave you
unharmed! Cool eh!

-- 
John J McVey, Whyalla, Uni S. Australia    9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au
Electronic Engineering student & Terror Tekkie!
Any email can be posted unless I state explicitly otherwise.
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|  Obligatory disclaimer: UniSA hates my opinions...  |  \/Darwin o\
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An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it. Marquis
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