HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: carlton@scws1.harvard.edu (david carlton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Culture (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:23:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: scws1.CARLTON.92Oct7172343
Organization: Citizens for Boysenberry Jam
In-reply-to: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu's message of 7 Oct 92 03:47:17 GMT

In article <1av7r5INNd75@mizar.usc.edu>, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu
(adolphson) writes:
>In article <CARLTON.92Oct7085238@scws8.harvard.edu> 
>carlton@scws8.harvard.edu (david carlton) writes:

>> I'm with Nelson on this one.  I'd heard of her [Marlene
>> Dietrich] before a few months ago, but not before a couple 
>> of years ago (when I saw _Blue Angel_ for a class of mine) 
>> (Should there be a "The" in that title?), 

> Yes, there should be.  Did you like the film, by the way?

Yes, I did.  I've seen films that I liked a lot more, but I thought
that it was pretty good.  I got the feeling that I would have liked it
a lot more if I had lived when it was made, though.  Or at least I
felt distanced from what was going on for some reason; it may have
been as much that it wasn't American or British as the time
difference.  I don't remember it and my feelings about it clearly
enough to be sure.

david carlton
carlton@husc.harvard.edu

       Those aren't WINOS--that's my JUGGLER, my AERIALIST, my SWORD
       SWALLOWER, and my LATEX NOVELTY SUPPLIER!!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat)
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:47:34 GMT

I thought I would just share this with you ...


} Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 11:38:32 EDT
} From: bfried@attmail.att.com (Burton D Fried)
} To: lovegod@wam.umd.edu
} Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
} Newsgroups: soc.motss
} In-Reply-To: <1992Oct13.132136.27014@wam.umd.edu>
} References: <h4mpxja@lynx.unm.edu>
} Organization: AT&T
} Cc: 

} You're light skinned because your great great grandmother probably
} asked her master to make her feel good!

Boys and Girls, this problem is very real.

Donald - Nigger Stompin' African!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris)
Subject: Re: Kiedis and Vedder Get Tender
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:47:31 GMT

sandro@asylum.UUCP (Sandro Wallach) writes:
>
>While I'm on the subject, there's a picture of Elton and Axl together,
>but they're not kissing and somehow I don't think we'll hear about it
>if that happens.  It's good they're close, but I guess some cool
>people have to be publicly straight.  (If you wanna flame about Axl,
>let's do in e-mail.)

If I remember correctly, Axl was very homophophic early in his career.
But I also remember he "narrated" a very good documentary (Rockumentary?)
about Queen on MTV just before Freddy (sp?) Mercury died.  He has also
said that Elton and Freddy have had a big impact on his music.

-jeff
From: waal@cwi.nl (Peter de Waal)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Madonna offers haven to Diana
Date: 7 Oct 92 10:31:34 GMT

thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:

>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>I could even afford a few
>>scholarships to my special camp here in Madison, I think.

>So, like, what should all us happy campers pack, anyway?

Lots of warm clothing and snowboots I guess. Isn't Wisconsin quite
cold already around this time of year? Jess, couldn't you plan the
special camp on Hawaii? With all those billions of dollars surely you
can afford a private island in the Pacific.

--- Peter de Waal, CWI, Amsterdam --- 
--- "Ceci n'est pas un signature" ---
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Culture (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Date: 8 Oct 1992 18:05:55 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

My oh my.  I take a short (12 hour) break from posting and
what happens?  The Girl with the Golden Hair's biggest fan
in all the world goes ballistic.  I'm still chuckling about
his assertion that Little Mary influenced Hollywood fashions
for 20 years (or was it 30?).  That frump?!  What a *scream*!

In article <1992Oct8.221925.2247@spdcc.com> 
dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
> Ars longa, Melmon brevis.  I can't wait to hear your opinion of books
> and plays, especially "old" ones.

Yes, I've been curious about that, too.  But I'm still thinking
about Marlene and Madonna.  It's curious, as I remarked privately
to Jess earlier today, that a number of people seem to confuse what 
they know of American and/or Western culture with American and/or
Western culture itself.  Just because you don't know, say, _The 
Bacchae_, does not mean that _The Bacchae_ is irrelevant.

But those musings will have to wait.  I have to get out of my
office.

Arne
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Date: 9 Oct 1992 17:08:56 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <73236@apple.Apple.COM> 
stevenso@Apple.COM (David Stevenson) writes:

| Nonsense!  If there's any vegetable more deserving of humiliation, it could
| only be brussels sprouts.  

Oh, I don't know about that.

| However, since said shaving occurs after the head has been removed from 
| the plant body, it's debatable the affect of the shaving on the cabbage 
| (the effect is obvious).  Which brings up the interesting question:  when 
| exactly is the moment of death for a vegetable?  That's something I never 
| hear vegitarians discuss; perhaps because they're ashamed?

David, what say you perform a little experiment for us.  Why not
walk down the hallways there at Apple and pick out a vegetable.
What kind?  How about a melon.  Remove its head and, by careful
observation, determine the exact moment of death.  But remember: for
melons, brain death is a given.  You'll have to watch for other
signs.

Arne


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Ann Landers Is Appalling
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:58:55 GMT

In article <ldjq3kINNm9i@spim.mti.sgi.com> dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>Did anyone read the Ann Landers this morning?  For those
>of you who did not, it was a classic closet case letter,
>complaining that drag queens and leathermen keep them in
>the closet.

Dandy.  Boob gives up on soc.motss, and now he's writing
letters to women with large hair.
--
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Tired and Impatient (was Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.)
Date: 14 Oct 92 07:18:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct14.071838.3842
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Oct14.001737.10135@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>If we talk about one of those Eastern
>Orthodox icons, of say St. Barbara, what's iconic is the
>face of Christ on her handkerchief.

Not to be an iconoclast, but I thought that was Saint Veronica.
(I say this as someone familiar with the Western Church.)

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: Josh Simon <jsimon@convex.COM>
Subject: Re: "Advocate" editor interviewed on CNN
Originator: jsimon@sushi.convex.com
Reply-To: jsimon@convex.com (Josh Simon)
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1992 16:33:24 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <1992Oct7.011247.28788@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>Um, Arne, maybe this is a generational thing, but I've never heard
>of Tucker Quayle until now.  Is he some sort of icon, too?
>
>(Who the hell IS he, Quayle's dad?  brother?)

Son.
-- 
============================================================================
= Josh Simon / Convex Computer / 3000 Waterview Pkwy / Richardson TX 75083 =
= jsimon@convex.com / userJSS@umichum.bitnet / {...}!uiucuxc!convex!jsimon =
============================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: 100 years of homosexuality
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:47:57 GMT

In article <coolidge@kaa.gr.osf.org>, emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn
McManus) anagrammatizes:

> ,
> Eamonn Patrick McManus
> an immune cock's mantrap

I've been admiring these for some time, but this one is an absolute
gem. And *so* *true*!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Frozen Green Tomatoes (mild spoilers)
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 03:53:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.114013.10133@bsu-ucs.uucp> 01klcampbell@bsu-ucs.uucp (Kenton Campbell) writes:

>Ruth kisses Idgie at the end of the scene where they're drunk and playing
>poker at the river.  It was Ruth's birthday, she got drunk, learned to play
>poker and baseball, and then they went swimming in the river.

Rather a chaste kiss it was, though.  At that point, it looked more as
if Idgie was alone in carrying a torch for Ruth.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "You are just naive and repressed because
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /  penis envy is here and it's now and it's
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  all around you." -- Neal C. Wickham
From: gklein@uoft02.utoledo.edu (Gary Klein, bear at heart)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: e-mail
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:12:39 GMT
Organization: Carlson Library, Univ of Toledo

In article <Bw0JEA.2KK@exnet.co.uk>, s0xjg@exnet.co.uk (Xavier Gallagher) 
   writes:
> I just went and picked up a man from the Market Tavern and when we finally
> came to swapping contacts we swapped e-mail addresses.  I think that is a 
> first for for me and strikes me as being quite funny.

     I had my e-mail address on my business cards ever since I got an account
on our mainframe (incorporating both Bitnet & Internet).

     When I attended Centurion's annual weekend run in Columbus OH last year,
there were several folks chatting in the hallway outside the hospitality suite
who when they heard my name, commented, "Oh, I know you -- I read your postings
on Soc.Motss!"

     Even when bumping into librarians at a national conference, I have seen
people pause after reading my name tag, and then light up as they remarked, "Oh 
you're the one with that triangle in your signature that I see posting on XYZ"!

     It has even gone full circle:  When I was marching at this year's Gay
Pride Parade in San Francisco, decked out in full leather, one librarian who
was chatting with mentioned, "I don't know his name, but I keep seeing a
librarian from somewhere in Ohio contributing regularly to the electronic
discussion group for Reference Librarians -- maybe you know this fellow whose
nickname is the Leathered Librarian?"
--
                                               "Librarian, Leather bound"
Gary Klein,   Business Librarian,  (Univ of Toledo)           * * * * 
PO Box 12650                  Toledo OH  43606-0250            *   *   
(w): 419-537-2629      fac2813@uoft01                            *   
(h): 419-243-2740      fac2813@uoft01.utoledo.edu         B4 t+ w- g s+ k
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Subject: send a Sinead for ...
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:01:14 GMT

(Sedentary but sentient?  Saddened by sainthood scandal, slander?
 Spellbound by sedition?  Springboard -> spend stipend secondhand,
 surrender sound by sundown.  Splendid swindle ... slender Sinead
 shouldn't stand singlehanded.)

It seems something calling itself the "National Ethnic Coalition of
Organizations" (made up of 66 other groups) has its knickers in a twist
over Sinead O'Connor tearing up pictures of the Pope on national TV.

It's declared a bounty on Sinead O'Connor albums:  $10 to charity on
behalf of anyone who sends in one of her records, cassettes or CDs --
any registered charity of the record donor's choice.

If you, like I, have a store nearby selling inexpensive second-hand
albums (or cutouts), this sounds like an excellent way to donate to
the registered queer charity of your choice.  :-)

Send cheap Sinead albums to: 

	NECO
	555 Madison Avenue, 12th floor
	New York, NY  10022

Stupendous!
--                    __
Ellen Keyne Seebacher \/             elle@midway.uchicago.edu
  "I'm not looking to get in someone's face, but if my isness coincides
   with your conception of face, you'll just have to deal with it..." 
                           --STella
From: stine@Stars.Reston.Unisys.COM (John P. Stine x7381)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: OCA liability
Keywords: Washington Post
Date: 14 Oct 92 18:32:49 GMT
Reply-To: stine@Stars.Reston.Unisys.COM (John P. Stine)
Followup-To: soc.motss
Distribution: na
Organization: Paramax Systems Corporation, Reston, VA

buckmr@vccsouth15.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>Anyone have 800 numbers for the New York Times, Washington Post or Los Angeles
>Times?
The Washington Post may be reached at (800) 627-1150.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
             John P. Stine  (stine@stars.reston.unisys.com)

   The opinions expressed here certainly don't represent those of my
   employer...but I'm working on it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cjr10@cccvm.ccc.amdahl.com (Chris Russell)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Vacationing in Europe
Date: 13 Oct 92 23:19:00 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corp.

In article <1992Oct12.224309.16369@ads.com>
henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:
 
>"relaxation" varies by the person, the time of day, the weather, etc.
>unless people know what you find relaxing, we'll waste each other's
>time taking pot shots.
 
So let's get more specific.
 
Last month we took a cruise where we did not have a hell of a lot to
do (but it was what we were expecting and had planned for). This kind
of relaxation is NOT what I would like out of a trip to Europe.
 
By "relaxation" I suppose I mean that I want to have time to get to
know a place a little, as opposed to going right to all the tourist
attractions and then moving on elsewhere. I'm not necessarily looking
for beaches but that would be a plus. Taking a train between places
seems like a way to relax also.
 
I don't care a lot for real rural areas, I'm too much of a city boy.
I went to Yosemite last weekend and stayed over one night. I got
bored real fast (the "deluxe" rooms at the Yosemite lodge didn't have
TV sets!). And there were too many people there.
 
Fair to sunny weather (which would probably be a problem if we end
up going to Scotland) is a requirement. I'm from England, but I left
long enough ago that everything would be practically new to me if I
went back there (and I speak the language!). However, I'm somewhat
more inclined towards Germany and the surrounding countries (though
my comprehension of that language dates from High School). The time
period we're thinking of is May/June/July for about 10 days.
 
Now I'm open to other ideas about relaxation also.
 
/*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
 *             Chris Russell (cjr10@cccvm.ccc.amdahl.com)              *
 *---------------------------------------------------------------------*/
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: 7 Oct 1992 15:42:23 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Oct7.220448.21215@quantime.co.uk> 
roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips) writes:

> I've been resisting the wicked temptation
> to refer to Nelson as "the imminently articulate".

When Nelson is articulate, do you think it's
eminently reticulate?

Arne
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:51:52 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Oct8.080444.3464@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu
(Nelson Minar) writes:

>The point is, there's no reason to claim people are "uneducated"
>because they don't have the same cultural vocabulary you do,
>particularly when it is clear that what is going on is a generational
>effect. 

Expatiate on that, if you would.  I believe it contains an
inherent contradiction.  There's no sin in being uneducated;
we were all completely ignorant at birth.  I claim that it
is, in fact, for want of eduation that we remain unaware of
our cultural and historical legacies (of which there are many,
so many that eventually even the most educated, widely
experienced person is at their own limits).

What I think may be different between generations is that
older people have come to accept these limitations as
ineluctable facts of life, whereas younger people have not,
thinking as they do that there's a solution to ignorance.
Believe me (I hope you can) that of all the world's
solutions, few are as overestimated as that idea.

>Icons fade from currency. However, they frequently retain
>their historical interest.

This remark, you see, obscures as much as it says.  There's
a lot more to it.  Everything takes place in a context, or
rather a complex fabric of contexts, bringing to life in our
own time aspects of the past, and in the course of that
process, transformations of the iconography are endemic to
the situation.  

Importantly, that which is not recovered tends to be
reinvented in more contemporary terms.  Madonna furnishes
many examples.  It's the same impulse, though in a radically
different context, that leads to spray-can graffiti.  The
age creates its artifacts, drawing upon such symbols as it
can find in its own experience, its own context.  At some
point it ceases to be aware of how the symbols it picks up
got there in the first place.

One of the things that's remarkable (and you have provided
some rewarding contrasts to it) about Matthew Melmon is the
really startling degree to which he's unaware of what he
says.  It's perfectly all right not to know something, but to
think you do -- when obviously you don't -- on *his* kind of
scale, well that takes the breath away.  As I mention to
Steve, there's little one can do except roll your eyes,
shake your head, and hope time fixes it.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: pc@linus.mitre.org (Penny Chase)
Subject: Re: Culture (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Research Computer Facility, The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA
	<1992Oct7.160729.28914@spdcc.com> <1av7r5INNd75@mizar.usc.edu>
	<mattm-071092122712@mcmelmon.apple.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 23:09:07 GMT

In article <mattm-071092122712@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com
(Matthew Melmon) writes:

   In article <1av7r5INNd75@mizar.usc.edu>, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
   wrote [in response to david carlton]:

   > | >and just last year I saw a movie that she [Dietrich] was in without 
   > | >realizing that it was she.  

   A common failing, no doubt.  To which Dolphie replies:

   > That's not really the point.

   Bullshit.  Complete and utter bullshit!  Where do you come up with
   this crap!?  Someone sees what you believe to be *an* *icon*, does
   not know who the fuck she is (she has, after all, be a nobody for
   God-knows how many decades), and you claim that "It's not the point."

I agree with Arne on this one.  The look, gestures, and style
(icongraphy?) that one associates with Dietrich need not be present in
all her films.  That someone might not recognize her in a film may be
more a testimony to her acting ability (or indicate that she was not
cast to type), rather than raising doubts on her status as an icon.
(I still remember, with some embarrassment, that after seeing "A Room
With a View" a short time after seeing "My Beautiful Laundrette", I
had no idea that Daniel Day Lewis appeared in both films until a
friend pointed it out.  Note, I am not claiming that he is an icon,
only that he is a fine actor).

	Penny

--
UUCP:  { ... }!linus!pc 
INTERNET:  pc@mitre.org
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: By popular demand..
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 01:48:55 GMT

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

> does ibuprofen have
> a known side effect of causing persisting erections in men?

No, but I do!!!

John, going for the cheap laughs (birds of a feather...)

--
John Dorrance * Alleged Homosexual/Shameless Hussy * thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

			Dark. Handsome. 6 feet tall.
		  31 flavors? I believe he's got 'em all!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@vccnw05.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: M A D O N N A 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 19:45:50 GMT

emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:

>I saw the video on MTV Europe last Saturday.  It is *very* explicit,
>not in bare bodies, but in things S&M.  Even the French people present
>(i.e., everybody except me) were pretty startled.  We are placing bets
>for how long it will last.  Previous history (Prince's "Sexy
>Motherfucker" becoming "Sexy [ridiculous scream]") does not bode well.

Well, MTV is only playing "EROTICA" after midnight, and the song itself is not
explicit in any wa so that it can be played on Top40 stations all over America..

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C. in '93!''
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
Samuel R. Delany, Jodie Foster, Barry Diller, Martina Navratilova, k. d. lang,
Audre Lorde, David Geffen, Bob Jackson-Paris, Greg Louganis, Whitney Houston.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Why's It the Way It Is?
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 01:27:50 GMT

max@athena.mit.edu (Max Meredith Vasilatos) writes:

>As one who often leaves gender aside when writing here,
>I've noticed that 95% of the time, responses to me (especially
>from Jess) manage to drag my gender back into the conversation.

Well, I read for months and months before I knew for sure whether
you were male or female, so you were pretty successful here.

John, who missed his mama

--
John Dorrance * Alleged Homosexual/Shameless Hussy * thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

			Dark. Handsome. 6 feet tall.
		  31 flavors? I believe he's got 'em all!
Newsgroups: soc.motss