HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sridhar@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (Sridhar Venkataraman )
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL:  Yes votes >= 200+2*No Votes
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:15:58 GMT

emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire) writes:
)lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
)
)   A rationale like that is certainly a good thing to have, but it seems to
)   me that any group proposal that doesn't have enough interest in it isn't
)   going to have enough votes to pass anyway.  Reader interest is what the
)   vote is designed to measure, after all.
)
)Remember that I'm one of the folks who think that the vote isn't doing
)a good job of this (because of the obsolete 100+ rule).  Seems to me
)that group proposals are passing even though there isn't enough
)interest to justify their existence.

Can u please explain why the 100+ rule is obsolete? I can give you
atleast 2 examples for groups which passed by wafer thin margins and
are far healthier than groups which passed by 400+ votes. IMO, the
100+ rule is still doing a wonderful job of what it is meant for.
Judging about a group is not fair unless the performance of the group
after the vote is taken into account.

)Ed McGuire

Sridhar.
--
Sridhar Venkataraman			sridhar@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups,comp.security.misc,alt.security,sci.crypt
From: kko@fraser.sfu.ca (Samuel Ko)
Subject: Re: RFD: sci.crypt.research
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 09:42:51 GMT

"Thomas W. Strong, Jr." <strong+@CMU.EDU> writes:

>  This is a formal Request For Discussion regarding the establishment of
             ^^^^^^ 
But how can a RFD be a formal one when it has not been approved by 
David Lawrence and posted to news.announce.newgroups? 

Samuel ... aka The Smart One ...

Xref: sparky news.groups:24870 alt.flame:17359
From: dave@frackit.UUCP (Dave Ratcliffe)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.flame
Subject: Re: DAVE HAYES MAY BE RIGHT!
Date: 22 Dec 92 21:56:59 GMT
Followup-To: alt.flame
Organization: Data Factory Services, Harrisburg, Pa.

In article <1992Dec17.230831.24630@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>, dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes) writes:
> dave@frackit.UUCP (Dave Ratcliffe) writes:
> >I fully expect some smarmy smart-ass tap dancing comment in response.
> 
> *poing*

 ..... and I wasn't completely disappointed. Pitiful.

-- 
 vogon1!compnect!frackit!dave@psuvax1.psu.edu            |  Dave Ratcliffe  |
 - or - ..uunet!wa3wbu!frackit!dave                      |  Sys. <*> Admin. |
                                                         | Harrisburg,  Pa. |
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.arts.movies
From: ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper)
Subject: Re: Rec.arts.cinema : rmgroup?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 13:39:51 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.133214.21063@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) writes:
> In article <C04FtH.MLx@polaris.async.vt.edu> jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (J. Furr) writes:
> I also have tried to contact Manavendra, with no response.  He's
> probably left MIT but his login is still sitting there.
               ^^^

Oops--should be "Harvard."

Evelyn C. Leeper  |  +1 908 957 2070  |  att!mtgzy!ecl or  ecl@mtgzy.att.com
--
"God does not play dice with the universe."  --Albert Einstein
"Albert, stop telling God what to do."  --Niels Bohr
From: jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (Joel K. Furr)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: talk.politics.conservative (Was: Re: RFD: talk.politics.patriot)
Date: 21 Dec 92 14:49:54 GMT
Organization: Escape from Blacksburg, VA

In article <1h2j37INNm76@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bu008@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brandon D. Ray) writes:
>In a previous article, nareid@due.unit.no (Helge Nareid) says:
>>In article <1992Dec15.020406.7278@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
>>|> In article <1gjc0uINN2qa@news.UU.NET> brians@atlastele.com (Brian Sheets) writes:
>>|> >I would like to propose a newsgroup for the patriot movement in the U.S.
>>|> >This would include discussions on rights violations by legislation, gold 
>>|> >and silver as payment for debts, freedom organizations and many other basic 
>>|> >US Constitutional topics.
>>|> 
>>|> I'm all for it, if it keeps the loonies in one place.
>>
>Yes...the loonies *are* already in one place...they're going to law school.
> 
>>And put it in the us.* hierarchy, so those of us outside the U.S. won't
>>be bothered.
>Heaven forbid you should be exposed to ideas you don't agree with.

Don't be a cretin, Brandon.  Why should Norwegians be exposed to ideas on
American conservative politics?  Do *you* regularly expose yourself to
talk and debate on Norwegian political issues?

I wish I understood precisely what the Big Seven hierarchies are meant to
be.  If they're truly meant to be worldwide hierarchies, then why doesn't
the us. hierarchy get more use?  I see proposals all the time for groups
that would be of interest only to citizens of the USA and those who follow
American politics and culture, yet we don't label these with a '.us.'
stuck in the namespace anywhere.

I also think that there certainly should be some newsgroup for
conservatives.  I disagree that it should be called talk.politics.patriot
as I vote Democratic, strongly dislike the National Rifle Association,
don't listen to Rush Limbaugh, yet consider myself a patriot.  Call it
talk.politics.usa.conservative, or find a home for it in the us. hierarchy.
From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Informal Interest Poll: rec.arts.sf --> rec.arts.f-sf
Date: 21 Dec 92 16:56:29 GMT
Organization: negligable

In article <1992Dec17.180212.12715@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU writes:
>[Note Followups line! What's this doing in alt.config anyway???]
>
>In <1992Dec16.172522.26109@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> skwatkin@nyx.cs.du.edu (Steven Watkins) writes:
>
>> I really see the need for an alt.fantasy news group.  I read the sf news 
>>groups and the specific fantasy author groups.  I like sf, but I *love*
>>fantasy.  I would like to be able to talk about many different authors
>>with others who share my interest in fantasy.  I would rather not force 
>>sf fans to read fantasy posts as I am forced to read theirs now. 
>
>As has been said before. The 'sf' in rec.arts.sf.* stands for 'speculative
>fiction' not 'science fiction'. Discussion of fantasy belongs in the sf
>groups as well.
>

Yet another case of the name misleading the prospective member.

I haven't run a vote yet, but I am about at the point of posting
an official RFD on renaming rec.arts.sf.* to rec.arts.f-sf.*  No
split.  No other changes.  Just a name that more accurately reflects
it's composition.  And YES I have heard "it *really* MEANS 'speculative
fiction', not 'science fiction'", but what it means to the people who
are already there and people looking for a place to post are entirely
different things.  I would have thought it meant science fiction myself,
but posted articles on fantasy books just because I always mix the two.
(The Tangled Lands indeed!)

Note: I have NOT taken part in rec.arts.sf discussion because I know
it would take all of my time.  Would someone repost this in the appropriate
place under rec.arts.sf w/ replies cross-posted to news.groups?


		-Richard Hartman
		hartman@uLogic.COM

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Ideas are not responsible for the people who believe them."

Xref: sparky news.groups:24999 alt.messianic:3800
From: miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.messianic
Subject: <None>
Date: 1 Jan 93 18:00:09 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

I've been away for a while, but I assume there has been an RFD for a
talk.politics.conservative or a sci.culture.conservative.  I favor the
latter, and would also like to urge that the newsgroup be a moderated
one.  I hope those who are aware of potential moderators will drop
some names...
-- 
miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu | Graecis ac barbaris, sapientibus et
opinions are my own      | insipientibus debitor sum
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire)
Subject: Manly Geoff Bronner (Re: RFD: soc.culture.native.american)
Organization: Intellection, Inc.
	<idoy.724717177@crux1.cit.cornell.edu>
	<1992Dec19.115117.27917@gnosys.svle.ma.us>
	<1992Dec19.195731.11630@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
	<EMCGUIRE.92Dec21093506@mother.intellection.com>
	<1992Dec22.173455.14078@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:30:05 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.173455.14078@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner) writes:

   Nice one, fool. If you really think a smiley covers a rude comment
   like that you have a lot to learn.

   And bye the bye, I share a house with Brian and I have been a guest
   of his Nation and he is NOT white in any way shape or form.

   But he is a man, you got that much right.

   --
   geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU - Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business
   _____________________________________________________________________________
   Cerebus for Dictator in 1993!! | "Whether you are quiet and alive or quiet
       "Vote for me or else."     |  and dead makes no difference to Cerebus."

Be serious, it's hard for me to type and laugh at the same time.
What's your damage?  Who's being rude?  It was rude of Brian to foist
his minority view of the issue on me and everyone with his comment
"what we want here is soc.culture.native," and it was rude of you to
name me a fool.  If you think that punchline is rude, then the joke
has not been told to you properly by a Native American and you are
compounding ignorance with hostility.  But the point of the punchline
was to slam Brian's imputation of his view to everyone, not to label
him a white man, and I doubt that you missed the point.  It is
ridiculous for you to defend his race and his manliness, and I'm
unimpressed that you dragged his Nation into it in the process.  If he
takes offense, I hope he confronts me himself.  He certainly doesn't
need you to fight his battles for him.  Your posturing is more
egotistical and overbearing than his comment and his antagonistic
attitude in general towards the consensus forming on the new group,
and I'm not surprised to hear that the two of you sleep in the same
house.  It's obvious from your signature that you want absolute power
to bludgeon to death anyone who doesn't defer to you.

Do your worst.  You have already.  Thanks for the laugh of the day.
-- 
Ed McGuire                   1603 LBJ Freeway, Suite 780
Systems Administrator/       Dallas, Texas 75234
 Member of Technical Staff   214/620-2100, FAX 214/484-8110
Intellection, Inc.           <ed@intellection.com>

Raise Usenet quality.  Read news.announce.newgroups and vote.
From: jeh@cmkrnl.com
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Informal Interest Poll: rec.arts.sf --> rec.arts.f-sf
Date: 27 Dec 92 10:43:37 GMT
Organization: Kernel Mode Consulting, San Diego, CA

In article <750@ulogic.UUCP>, hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman) writes:
> I haven't run a vote yet, but I am about at the point of posting
> an official RFD on renaming rec.arts.sf.* to rec.arts.f-sf.*  No
> split.  
> [...]
> Note: I have NOT taken part in rec.arts.sf discussion because I know
> it would take all of my time.  Would someone repost this in the appropriate
> place under rec.arts.sf w/ replies cross-posted to news.groups?

Really committed to this, aren't you?  Why didn't you "repost" it yourself?

Oh, wait a minute, I'll bet I know:  This way a lot of the objections that are
sent by mail will be sent to the luckless fool who follows your suggestion, 
rather than to you.  

I think that if you want to run an RFD, let alone a vote, and have anybody pay
attention, you're going to have to show a whole lot more commitment to your own
cause than you have here. 

> 		-Richard Hartman
> 		hartman@uLogic.COM
> 
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> "Ideas are not responsible for the people who believe them."

No comment.

	--- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Consulting, San Diego CA
Internet:  jeh@cmkrnl.com, hanrahan@eisner.decus.org, or jeh@crash.cts.com
Uucp:  ...{crash,eisner,uunet}!cmkrnl!jeh
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: tbooth@netcom.com (Todd Booth)
Subject: How to gateway email list and netnews group?
Organization: Wellfleet Communications, Inc
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 15:57:36 GMT

How can I allow comp.dcom.sys.wellfleet posts to get sent to
the Wellfleet mailling list and have the mailling list submissions
get sent to comp.dcom.sys.wellfleet (if it passes it's CFV next
week)?

Thanks, --todd
Xref: sparky news.groups:24974 rec.arts.movies:36320
From: geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Rec.arts.cinema : rmgroup?
Date: 30 Dec 92 19:01:15 GMT
Reply-To: geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU
Organization: Amos Tuck School
Followups-To: news.groups
Disclaimer: I don't represent Dartmouth and Dartmouth doesn't represent me.

In <1992Dec28.133402.15296@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (JKF) writes:

>Sorry to inject some facts into this discussion, but it should be pointed
>out that rec.arts.cinema is a moderated group, and that no posts seem to
>have appeared for quite some time.  I posted to it a month ago and my post
>never appeared.  I tried again today; we'll see what happens.  

I've crossposed a couple of the 'rmgroup' posts to rec.arts.cinema as
well. No signs of life.

>If memory serves, there is no way to "unmoderate" a newsgroup effectively,
>since some news software programs out there won't ever acknowledge it and
>CAN'T acknowledge it.  David Lawrence has said that basically what you
>have to do is rmgroup the group and then make a new one if people want. 

If my memory serves, you can send out a control message with a new
moderator with somewhat better results, can't you? I seem to remember this
coming up during the recent discussion of rec.arts.erotica.

>I think it might be a good idea to find out exactly where he or she
>went and, if it turns out that the moderator really has given up, rmgroup
>rec.arts.cinema.  Then, if people really *do* want a moderated
>movie/cinema newsgroup, they can go through the regular discussion and
>voting process any new group would follow.

I don't really agree. I like having a moderated cinema newsgroup and one
exists. It seems clear that a number of people have been posting to
rec.arts.cinema with no success so a demand exists as well.
(It just took us awhile to realize it wasn't a local problem...)
Why not just fix it and avoid an un-needed vote?

-Geoff
--
geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU - Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business
_____________________________________________________________________________
Cerebus for Dictator in 1993!! | "Whether you are quiet and alive or quiet
    "Vote for me or else."     |  and dead makes no difference to Cerebus."
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.* (was Re: new newsgroup proposal:talk.politics.motss)
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 06:13:36 GMT

someone wrote:
->>>	soc.motss.misc	- "classic" soc.motss

why not soc.motss.classic ... in fact, why not just two groups:
soc.motss.classic (for we, the merry cabalistas) and
soc.motss.lusing-turistik-skum (for everyone else) ... 

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Subject: Re: what does it take to get someone to vote?
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 16:40:06 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.142741.18990@nastar.uucp> phardie@nastar.uucp (Pete Hardie) writes:
>
>I suppose that if the newsreader could automatically scan and report the
>outstanding RFD/CFV count, and the groups affected, as a separate command,
>this would be nice; this does have the problem with missing messages, history
>file retention, etc, however.

Or even simpler - the newsreader could give you access to a newsgroup
(say we call it news.announce.newgroups) that has this information
in it.  Of course, being user-friendly, it doesn't force people to
read this, just gives them the option.

Yes, that would be very nice indeed.  Now, why didn't anyone ever think
of that?

:-)

       The Rhealist - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.autos.vw
From: Judson West <jwest@r3vm.dsd.trw.com>
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.autos.vw reorganization
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A75C9D0A3F0149F5@jwest.dsd.trw.com>
X-Xxdate: Tue, 22 Dec 92 18:23:06 GMT
Organization: TRW Space & Electronics Group
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:23:07 GMT

In article <1gvs8uINN48f@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Francis A. Uy,
fau@po.CWRU.Edu writes:
>matocha@aurora.engr.latech.edu (Kevin Matocha) says:
>
>>	rec.autos.vw.air-cooled        (un-moderated)
>>	rec.autos.vw.water-cooled      (un-moderated)
>>	rec.autos.vw.misc	       (un-moderated)
>
>Is there enough traffic in rec.autos.vw to justify a
> split?  Please publish some figures, such as
> posts per day + posts per week, in the total group
> and on the subtopics you propose.

It is no trouble for me to skip the articles that I don't want to read.
I think it is sufficient enough to have the one group.
---------------------------
Judson West
Section Head
IBM Operating Systems
TRW Space & Electronics Group
---------------------------
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: sysjmk@sarah.albany.edu (Joe Kane)
Subject: list of valid news groups
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 16:04:41 GMT


 I would appreciate it if someone would directing me to a list of all valid 
news groups since as my active file is not 100% in sync with the valid news 
groups on the net. Please respond by e-mail.

                                     thanks

                                     sysjmk
-- 
Joseph Kane				internet:  sysjmk@csc.albany.edu
State Univ of NY at Albany		(518) 442-3711
1400 Washington Ave
Albany,  NY 12222
Newsgroups: news.groups
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 19:09:15 -0500 
From: "Thomas W. Strong, Jr." <strong+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: RFD: sci.crypt.research
	<1ho7v8INNh13@gaia.ucs.orst.edu>
Organization: Komitet Gosudarstvennoi Bezopaznosti

stanley@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley) writes:
> In article <4fDb2em00WB=84isY1@andrew.cmu.edu> "Thomas W. Strong, Jr." <strong+@CMU.EDU> writes:
> >  This is a formal Request For Discussion regarding the establishment of
> No, it is not. It was not cross-posted to news.announce.newgroups.
> Please, before you attempt to create a new newsgroup, read the
> guidelines that say how it is supposed to be done. Then ask someone who
> has done it for help. It will save YOU a lot of trouble and
> embarassment.

The original message was cross-posted, however, since postings to
news.announce.newgroups are redirected as mail to an address at rpi.edu,
it did not appear in the header due to peculiarities in the news reading
sotware here.  Since the moderator is out until early January, the
posting will not appear there for a few days, however, it was sent at
the same time as the other postings.

 -----------------------------------------------------------------
  Tom Strong              N3NBB              ts49+@andrew.cmu.edu
From: elandal@archtwr.tower.nullnet.fi (Ismo Peltonen)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: rec.games.cyber renaming and unmoderation
Date: 29 Dec 92 04:51:40 GMT
Organization: Chambers of the Archmage
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Lazarus Churchyard (tbpho@rodan.acs.syr.edu) wrote:
: 
: I like talking about rules, to a degree. Especially clairifications, and
: definately the  errata material that  is occasionaly  posted. I think the
: charter of this group should have provisions to perserve such discussion.

  Quoting the proposed charter:

...
All discussion of general roleplaying aspects, cyberpunk roleplaying
not involving rules of any cyberpunk roleplaying game, or aspects of
cyberpunk roleplaying appearing often in other games (like weapons,
they appear in other games, but not smartgun links, as they are mostly
found in cyberpunk but no other games) belongs to .misc or some more
appropriate group (like .advocacy).
...

  Discussion about rules of any cyberpunk roleplaying games is allowed in
the group if it passes.
-- 
Elandal		(aka Ismo Peltonen)			| Hanuripolku 5B15
home (UUCP)	elandal@archtwr.tower.NullNet.FI	| 00420 Helsinki
Univ (internet)	ipeltone@cc.Helsinki.FI			| FINLAND
data		+358-0-5072005			voice	+358-0-537515
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.native
From: emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire)
Subject: Re: RFD: soc.culture.native.american
Organization: Intellection, Inc.
	<idoy.724717177@crux1.cit.cornell.edu>
	<1992Dec19.115117.27917@gnosys.svle.ma.us>
	<1992Dec19.195731.11630@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 15:35:06 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.195731.11630@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:

   Many groups have failed becuase the people involved were too
   concerned with adding more groups, and make a hierarchy.

Many?  How many?  What were their names?  I agree that groups should
not be created if there is no existing traffic on the topic, but let's
stick to the facts about the current proposal.

   Usenet does not exist for you to gateway your mailing lists.

Oh, yes it does.  Conversion from mailing list to newsgroup is a
standard path for a topic to take as it grows.  I would expect many
now reading NATIVE-L or NATCHAT and having access to news to start
reading the topic via news instead of mail.

   What we want here is soc.culture.native, first, and possibly other
   groups at some later date that we really can't talk about at this
   point, because we don't even have the first group.

Like the old punchline, "What you mean `we,' white man?"  :)

There are two mailing lists which have been proposed as candidates for
newsgroup promotion and gateway.  That means two newsgroups.  That
implies a hierarchy, something like what I suggested earlier:

	s.c.<your-favorite>.announce (Moderated)
	s.c.<your-favorite>.talk or .misc
-- 
Ed McGuire                   1603 LBJ Freeway, Suite 780
Systems Administrator/       Dallas, Texas 75234
 Member of Technical Staff   214/620-2100, FAX 214/484-8110
Intellection, Inc.           <ed@intellection.com>
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.motss