HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: news@royko.Chicago.COM (news at royko)
Subject: Weekly USENET Report for royko
Organization: Chicago Software Works
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 06:53:53 GMT


System       	Accept	Reject	Junked	Xmit to	Control	% total	% rejct
ditka         	  1045	    81	     1	   3339	     20	    25%	     7%
local         	    13	     0	     0	      0	     12	     0%	     0%
marcal        	  3261	    26	     3	    934	     36	    73%	     0%
mcdchg        	     0	     0	     0	    909	      0	     0%	     0%
mgweed        	     0	     0	     0	    235	      0	     0%	     0%
ohare         	    22	     1	     0	      0	      2	     0%	     4%
penl0p        	     0	     0	     0	    653	      0	     0%	     0%
royko         	     0	     0	     0	     12	      0	     0%	     0%

TOTALS        	  4341	   108	     4	   6082	     70	   100%	     2%

Total Articles processed 4449

Control	Invocations
newgroup          1
rmgroup           1
ihave            16
cancel           42, 132 failed
sendme           10

Netnews Categories Received
rec        2040
alt        1403
comp        713
news        298
chi         288
misc        175
chicago     111
talk        106
sci          53
soc          45
ba           36
uiuc         20
general      16
hsv          12
aus           6
ne            6
biz           6
ct            2
uchi          2
ucb           1
in            1
trial         1
ca            1
sub           1
nwu           1
triangle      1
slac          1
phl           1
bbt           1
ny            1
pa            1
metro         1
athena        1
atl           1
Newsgroups: chicago.news.stats,chi.news.stats
From: news@royko.Chicago.COM (news at royko)
Subject: Weekly USENET Report for royko
Organization: Chicago Software Works
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 06:54:13 GMT


System       	Accept	Reject	Junked	Xmit to	Control	% total	% rejct
ditka         	   678	   191	     6	   4203	     30	    17%	    21%
local         	    16	     0	     0	      0	     14	     0%	     0%
marcal        	  4134	    25	     0	    532	     60	    82%	     0%
mcdchg        	     0	     0	     0	    493	      0	     0%	     0%
mgweed        	     0	     0	     0	    188	      0	     0%	     0%
ohare         	     4	     2	     0	      0	      2	     0%	    33%
penl0p        	     0	     0	     0	    953	      0	     0%	     0%
royko         	     0	     0	     0	     14	      0	     0%	     0%

TOTALS        	  4832	   218	     6	   6383	    106	   100%	     4%

Total Articles processed 5050

Control	Invocations
newgroup          2
rmgroup           2
ihave            18
cancel           73, 154 failed
<BxDBEo.Crv@uunet.uu.net>      1
sendme           10

Netnews Categories Received
rec        2081
alt        1854
comp        841
misc        384
news        271
chi         230
talk        182
chicago     126
soc          60
sci          44
ba           44
biz          18
ne           14
general      13
aus          12
us            9
life          7
uiuc          7
pdaxs         6
de            6
atl           6
hsv           5
slac          5
ctdl          4
altl          4
tx            3
triangle      3
sdnet         2
la            2
sanet         2
bit           2
fj            2
fl            2
no            2
ga            2
uchi          2
forsale       1
cmu           1
sa            1
vpnet         1
gnu           1
mi            1
uwisc         1
oc            1
wi            1
uic           1
purdue        1
cle           1
tlak          1
Newsgroups: chicago.news.stats,chi.news.stats,ba.news.stats
From: news@ohare.Chicago.COM (news at ohare)
Subject: Weekly USENET Report for ohare
Organization: Chicago Software Works
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 08:52:06 GMT


System       	Accept	Reject	Junked	Xmit to	Control	% total	% rejct
ditka         	  4274	    57	    61	     47	     40	    99%	     1%
local         	    24	     1	     0	      0	      2	     0%	     4%
royko         	     0	     0	     0	     24	      0	     0%	     0%
unixhub       	     0	     0	     0	     22	      0	     0%	     0%

TOTALS        	  4298	    58	    61	     93	     42	   100%	     1%

Total Articles processed 4356

Control	Invocations
newgroup          1
rmgroup           1
cancel           40, 122 failed

Netnews Categories Received
ba         1582
rec         924
news        921
comp        555
alt         508
ca          390
soc         313
talk        295
misc        292
chi         274
chicago     171
sci          80
co           74
su           73
ne           59
ny           54
nj           53
or           53
ucb          50
sun          22
uiuc         19
general      17
de           15
bit          14
biz          13
hsv          11
gnu           8
trial         7
synopsys      6
vmsnet        6
eunet         5
sco           5
uk            5
test          4
in            3
pnw           3
slac          3
sbay          3
ig            2
la            2
apple         2
pa            2
local         1
sri           1
amb           1
scruz         1
adobe         1
sdnet         1
pdx           1
ont           1
us            1
nwu           1
triangle      1
phl           1
oc            1
bbt           1
world         1
metro         1
athena        1
uchi          1
seattle       1
altos         1
amdahl        1
Newsgroups: chicago.news.stats,chi.news.stats,ba.news.stats
From: fred_s@earwax.pei.com (Fred Scott)
Newsgroups: ca.general
Subject: Re: California Public Schools Funding: A Masterplan for Failure
Date: 19 Nov 92 02:20:08 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Idiots Incorporated

In article <1eepe1INNm7r@skat.usc.edu> walker@skat.usc.edu (Michael D Walker) writes:
>>>What I'm hearing is that CA is spending more on schools now then in the 
>>>past, but the standards keep dropping."
>
>>Michael, CA has not been throwing money at the problems.
>
>The state is spending more money, though I cannot say whether or not
>that is per capita.
>
Well, why don't you find out before you open your mouth.  Per capita (or more
correctly, per student) plus adjustment for inflation is the only true measure
of what we're spending on education.  Anything else is "lies, damn lies, and
statistics" - i.e. dishonest propaganda.

Fred
From: fred_s@earwax.pei.com (Fred Scott)
Newsgroups: ca.general
Subject: Re: California Public Schools Funding: A Masterplan for Failure
Date: 19 Nov 92 07:39:01 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Idiots Incorporated

In article <1992Nov19.020640.3459@pcnntp.apple.com> (Larry Starkand) writes:
>In article <1eeivdINNefe@mizar.usc.edu>, genzuk@mizar.usc.edu (Michael Genzuk) writes:
>> Where in the world do you come up with these figures?  They are totally
>> erroneous.  It is one thing to disagree with a point of view, but 
>> certainly  another to fabricate statistics that are non-existant to

>Several newspapers have quoted the statistic that the California 
>school system employs 110 administrators for every 100 teachers,
>this would equate to less than 50% of the school staff being 
>teachers. This statistic is straight from the california state
>dept of education.

Well, you seem awful sure of your stats.  That would be good if they do, in
fact, turn out to be true.  But why not post the exact cite?  WHICH newspapers?
Date and page, please.  (And no, we're not going to call the California State
Dept. of Education to verify YOUR stats.  Do it yourself.)

>Furthermore just recently in san Jose their was a big brouhaha about the
>fact that the S.J. Union school district spent close to 7 Million (? on the
>figure it may have been 1 million) dollars on creating new administrative
>offices (refered to as the pink palace), while the kids were still being
>taught in temporary buildings (you know, the ones that look like quansit
>huts).

This is a very superficial (and perhaps one-sided) report of the incident.
Buildings cost a lot of money and I can't a large school district doing without
one for administration no matter how much you cut down the number of
administrators.  Or do you disagree?  If you don't, then the question is "how
badly did they need it?" vs. "how badly did the students need the capital
spending dollars?".  Just saying they were being taught in "termporary
buildings" proves little or nothing - the temporary facilties might have been
quite adequate and cost effective for all we know.

>Maybe what they need are better educated teachers, recently a junior
>high teacher taught her english class  that only 2000 people were
>killed in the concentration camps during WW II.

Flame bait!  Antidotal evidence is worse than worthless and I'll tell you
why: out of all the godzillions of teachers in the public school systems in
California, I would expect at least one to be incompetant.  It's impossible
to make sure every single teacher is competant in the course of hiring a large
number.  Does that mean that the hiring process (or firing process) is broken?
Not necessarily - it just means it isn't perfect.  I wonder how many private
school teachers have done as bad or worse.  But you're ready to damn the whole
system on the weight of one incident.  It's just stupid to bring something
like this up and pretend it's an argument.

Fred
From: Rick_Donnelly@taligent.com (Rick Donnelly)
Newsgroups: ca.general
Subject: Wilson recall campaign
Date: 24 Nov 92 04:42:04 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Taligent, Inc.

If you are interested in helping out with the statewide
"Bite 'em Back" campaign to recall Gov. Wilson and disempower
Willie Brown and David Roberti, please see my posting in
ca.politics (have fun wading through all the irrelevant
articles in that group :-( ) or call (408) 279-5432.

This is a non-partisan, all-volunteer effort.

The recall effort has over 100,000 signatures and needs
925,000 by Mar. 18 to force a recall election.  More people
are needed to collect signatures or we won't reach our goal.
Wishing for reform in state govt. isn't enough.  PLEASE
volunteer to help.

(I apologize if a similar posting appeared earlier in this
group -- I thought I posted it, but it hasn't shown up in
my newsreader after 3 days, so I think my newsreader dumped it.)

------------------------------------------------------------
Rick Donnelly                   My opinions, not Taligent's.
Rick_Donnelly@taligent.com
Newsgroups: ca.general
From: rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: California Public Schools Funding: A Masterplan for Failure
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 01:02:11 GMT

genzuk@mizar.usc.edu (Michael Genzuk) writes:
>Ron Dippold responds, "
>   "Sorry, but when the teachers are less than 50% of the school system
>   employees I have trouble feeling much sympathy for the system.  Too
>   many administrators and total waste.  The private school teachers in
>   CA are almost 90% teachers.  They don't have anything to gain by
>   bloating the bureaucracy, unlike the public schools.  The public
>   schools have all the resources they need, they just need to stop
>   pissing so much of it away."

>Where in the world do you come up with these figures?  They are totally
>erroneous.

Totally erroneous my ass.  The figures are, respectively, 86% of
private school employees are teachers.  46% of public school employees
are teachers, 18% are paraprofessionals, and 36% are administrators.
Exact source when I get home.

>  It is one thing to disagree with a point of view, but 
>certainly  another to fabricate statistics that are non-existant to
>defend your position. 

Yes, if you don't like them they're non-existant [sic].

-- 
If you can't fix it, feature it.
Newsgroups: ca.general
From: dhosek@hmcvax.claremont.edu
Subject: Re: California Public Schools Funding: A Materplan for Failure
Organization: Quixote Digital Typography
Date: 22 Nov 92 10:30:02 PST

In article <n0eddt@ofa123.fidonet.org>, Mark.Perew@p201.f208.n103.z1.fidonet.org writes:
> In a message of <Nov 16 09:02>, jordan@IMSI.COM (Jordan Hayes) writes:
 
>  >                      Prop 13 showed clearly that California taxpayers
>  >would rather have lower property taxes than good schools.
 
> The astute reader will notice the implication that more money equates to
> better schools.  An implication which is totally unsupportable, BTW.

Totally? That would indicate that it's always false. From my
research on the topic, putting money into a school doesn't
necessarily make it better, but taking money out almost always
makes it worse. Incidentally, comparing funding levels at private
and public schools won't give any useful information since most
private schools require a level of parental participation which
public schools are not capable of demanding. 

-dh
From: dhosek@hmcvax.claremont.edu
Subject: Re: California Public Schools Funding: A Materplan for Failure
Organization: Quixote Digital Typography
Date: 17 Nov 92 22:01:18 PST

In article <rdippold.722025313@qualcom>, rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
> jordan@IMSI.COM (Jordan Hayes) writes:
>>This is news to me.  Prop 13 showed clearly that California taxpayers
>>would rather have lower property taxes than good schools.  I've seen
 
> We're spending more money per student now than we did then.  Throwing
> more money at schools doesn't help at all when they spend it all on
> expanding the administration.

Pardon my french, but that's bullshit. We're spending more total
dollars on education, but the spending is not keeping pace with
increasing enrollment or with inflation. Where are you getting
your numbers from?

-dh
Newsgroups: ca.general
From: phz@cadence.com (Pete Zakel)
Subject: Re: California Public Schools Funding: A Materplan for Failure
Organization: Cadence Design Systems
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:41:43 GMT

In article <5649@bacon.IMSI.COM> jordan@IMSI.COM (Jordan Hayes) writes:
>This is news to me.  Prop 13 showed clearly that California taxpayers
>would rather have lower property taxes than good schools.  I've seen

This is absolute bullshit.  Prop. 13 showed clearly that people thought
property taxes were going through the roof and needed to be contained.

There is no reason that school funding has to come from property taxes,
and I personally don't think it should.

-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!uunet!cadence!phz)

Hartley's First Law:
	You can lead a horse to water, but if you can get him to float
	on his back, you've got something.
From: Mark.Perew@p201.f208.n103.z1.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: ca.general
Subject: Re: California Public Schools Funding: A Materplan for Failure
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
Date: 19 Nov 92  13:09:02

In a message of <Nov 16 09:02>, jordan@IMSI.COM (Jordan Hayes) writes:

 >                      Prop 13 showed clearly that California taxpayers
 >would rather have lower property taxes than good schools.

The astute reader will notice the implication that more money equates to
better schools.  An implication which is totally unsupportable, BTW.

--- Mark Perew  Mark.Perew@ofa123.fidonet.org
--- Mark's Information Repository and Funtime Emporium (1:103/208.201)


--- Squish v1.00
Newsgroups: ca.general
From: markp@pro-palmtree.socal.com (Mark Panitz)
Subject: Re: California Public Schools Funding: A Masterplan for Failure
Organization: The Palmtree BBS - 310/453-8726 - Santa Monica, CA
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 14:51:09 GMT

also a lot  of people *ASSUME* THE CALIFORNIA STATE LOTTERY PAYS FOR THE
EDUCATION but it DOES NOT!,  (only about 10% (or less goes to education) I
think-
Newsgroups: ca.general
From: markp@pro-palmtree.socal.com (Mark Panitz)
Subject: Re: Why buy anywhere else but FedCo?  (Medium/High-end video, at least
Organization: The Palmtree BBS - 310/453-8726 - Santa Monica, CA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:48:53 GMT

also you can be come member of  Fedco if you get some kind of
social security  (Ie SSI, SSDI, etc- check with Fedco for more info
From: jordan@IMSI.COM (Jordan Hayes)
Newsgroups: ca.general
Subject: Re: California Public Schools Funding: A Materplan for Failure
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:02:36 GMT
Organization: Investment Management Services Inc., NYC

Michael Genzuk <genzuk@mizar.usc.edu> writes:

	California has gone from the number 1 education state in the
	United States to the one with a rapidly decling reputation.

This is news to me.  Prop 13 showed clearly that California taxpayers
would rather have lower property taxes than good schools.  I've seen
bumperstickers as long ago as 1980 that said "If you can read this you
probably didn't go to a California Public School" ...

/jordan
Newsgroups: ca.general
From: rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: California Public Schools Funding: A Masterplan for Failure
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:50:42 GMT

genzuk@mizar.usc.edu (Michael Genzuk) writes:
>The simple fact is that public schools are not receiving the kind of resources
>and attention they need to address the complex needs of such a diverse and
>rapidly changing student population. 

Sorry, but when the teachers are less than 50% of the school system
employees I have trouble feeling much sympathy for the system.  Too
many administrators and total waste.  The private school teachers in
CA are almost 90% teachers.  They don't have anything to gain by
bloating the bureaucracy, unlike the public schools.  The public
schools have all the resources they need, they just need to stop
pissing so much of it away.
-- 
Without life, Biology itself would be impossible.
From: walker@skat.usc.edu (Michael D Walker)
Newsgroups: ca.general
Subject: Re: California Public Schools Funding: A Materplan for Failure
Date: 17 Nov 1992 12:57:57 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: skat.usc.edu

In article <5649@bacon.IMSI.COM> jordan@IMSI.COM (Jordan Hayes) writes:
>This is news to me.  Prop 13 showed clearly that California taxpayers
>would rather have lower property taxes than good schools.

No.  They realized their money was being wasted on school bureaucrats,
poor teachers, kids with bad parents, or to subsidize the rich with
the UC system.

>I've seen bumperstickers as long ago as 1980 that said "If you can
> read this you probably didn't go to a California Public School" ...

Yeah, and if your parent taught you to watch TV, instead of reading,
you're gonna do great....  Schools vary.

Thowing money at it hasn't worked.  What I'm hearing is that CA is
spending more on schools now then in the past, but the standards keep
dropping.

-- 
 /  /\ /\ Mike Walker      walker@usc.edu   uunet!usc!walker  \ /  /  
/ / \ /   University of Southern Cal,   U Computing Services \ \\/\\  
\/ \/ \   University Park, LA, CA 90089-0251  (213) 740-7382  \/  / \/
Jay Leno for Cray Computers - "Crunch all you want.  We'll make more."
From: prusk@rosco.Central.Sun.COM (Paul Rusk [Sun Denver System Engineer])
Newsgroups: ca.general
Subject: QT Wiles
Date: 17 Nov 92 07:22:31 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: prusk@rosco.Central.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: rosco.central.sun.com
Keywords: Wiles, Miniscribe

Anyone out there know what every happened to the infamous
QT Wiles formerly of Miniscribe.  I'm following up on a 
case study.  Any information would be greatly appreciated.

TIA,
Paul

email: paul.rusk@Central.Sun.COM
From: walker@skat.usc.edu (Michael D Walker)
Newsgroups: ca.general
Subject: Re: California Public Schools Funding: A Masterplan for Failure
Date: 19 Nov 92 01:08:17 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: skat.usc.edu

>>What I'm hearing is that CA is spending more on schools now then in the 
>>past, but the standards keep dropping."

>Michael, CA has not been throwing money at the problems.

The state is spending more money, though I cannot say whether or not
that is per capita.

>The bottom line is that if we don't prepare our students for the 21st
>century and the global marketplace, we will descend into mediocrity.
>We can make a difference, it won't be cheap, but we can make a difference.

"Michael at USC", yes, students (children) need to be prepared for
life, but if parents cannot do their job, its ridiculous to expect
teachers to make up for that.





-- 
 /  /\ /\ Mike Walker      walker@usc.edu   uunet!usc!walker  \ /  /  
/ / \ /   University of Southern Cal,   U Computing Services \ \\/\\  
\/ \/ \   University Park, LA, CA 90089-0251  (213) 740-7382  \/  / \/
Jay Leno for Cray Computers - "Crunch all you want.  We'll make more."
Newsgroups: ca.general
From: fred_s@earwax.pei.com (Fred Scott)
Subject: Re: California Public Schools Funding: A Materplan for Failure
Organization: Idiots Incorporated
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 01:41:28 GMT

In article <1ebmclINNcef@skat.usc.edu> walker@skat.usc.edu (Michael D Walker) writes:
>In article <5649@bacon.IMSI.COM> jordan@IMSI.COM (Jordan Hayes) writes:
>>This is news to me.  Prop 13 showed clearly that California taxpayers
>>would rather have lower property taxes than good schools.
>
>No.  They realized their money was being wasted on school bureaucrats,
>poor teachers, kids with bad parents, or to subsidize the rich with
>the UC system.

Oh, I get it.  So, to improve the situation, they cut down the funding to
improve the schools!  Makes sense to me...

Bullshit - they did nothing of sort.  Californians are like Pavlov's dogs or
rats running around in an electrified maze.  They let themselves get conditioned
to believe that if you vote for things like proposition 13, you get more money!
Simple as that...nothing more to it.  Everyone has more money and it must come
from nowhere.  After all, we can't *see* what taxes do, so they must be wasted
by a bunch of incompetant idiots we can't see and never met.

>Thowing money at it hasn't worked.  What I'm hearing is that CA is
>spending more on schools now then in the past, but the standards keep
>dropping.

I know - lots of people have heard that and like to remember it.  It makes nice
dogma when you're voting yourself less taxes.  Minor things like proof of that
concept (like, some DOCUMENTATION, buster) and a *real* solution to the
problem, are of course left to someone else who has more time than you do.  In
the absense of such a person, just cutting taxes must be the answer.

Fred
Newsgroups: ca.general
From: slambert@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: ca.general
Subject: Re: California Public Schools Funding: A Masterplan for Failure
Date: 18 Nov 1992 21:13:38 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

genzuk@mizar.usc.edu (Michael Genzuk) writes:
> We need schools that deal
> fully with issues of diversity; schools that look frankly at matters of
> prejudice and equity; schools that support, celebrate, and integrate the
> cultures, languages, and backgrounds of their students; schools that
> incorporate the curriculum and the teaching strategies appropriate to the vast
> range of learning styles, cultures and needs that are found in our
> multiethnic, multiracial society.
> ... 
> The bottom line is that if we don't prepare our students for the 21st
> century and the global marketplace, we will descend into mediocrity.
> We can make a difference, it won't be cheap, but we can make a difference.

I agree that integrating cultural diversity into public education is important,
but there is a severe lack of funds for other subjects besides cultural such
as MATH and SCIENCE.  The above excerpts say nothing about them.  Math and 
science are inherently expensive subjects to teach. They are materials
intensive (computers, books, lab equipment, etc.).  Math and sciences are 
equally important in "prepar[ing] our students for the 21st century and the
global marketplace."

Ignorance of the world around us is just as bad as ignorance of the people
around us.

Flames encouraged,
Steve


-- 
Stephen M. Lambert  | mu'(i) = mu"(i)     | lambert@mordor.cchem.berkeley.edu
Dept. of Chem. Eng. | for i = 1,2,...,c   | lambert@matahari.cchem.berkeley.edu
U.C. Berkeley       | at constant T and P | slambert@cmsa.berkeley.edu
(510) 642-3928      | (J.W. Gibbs, 1886)  | slambert@garnet.berkeley.edu