From: David.Rice@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Women. . . . SHUT UP!
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
Date: 21 Dec 92  08:41:36

Re: Women. . . SHUT UP!
Who: mccall3080@iscsvax.uni.edu
ID: <1992Dec14.224233.9404@iscsvax.uni.edu>
With: Mic.Oettinger@launchpad.unc.edu (Mic Oettinger)
 
[cut to size to save space]
 
> MO> Not to bring up abortion, but I must. Feminists are the reason
> MO> it has become such a contraversy. If they would all just shutup
> MO> and let the world move on, ...."
 
> What utter inanity. "If them blacks would just shut up. . . ."
> right? You anti-woman biggot! "If women would only just shut up,
> stay barefoot and pregnant, and keep in their proper place. . . ."
> It is the Christian hate groups such as "Opperation 'Rescue'" that
> made abortion an issue. It is the Christian hate groups such as
> "The Vineyard" that use violence, bombs, threats, and intimidation
> to beat women down, keep them oppressed, force them into dependant
> roles to men. Feminists would like nothing better than to have
> these Christian hate groups get the fuck out of their vaginas and
> wombs, and leave them alone!
> If Christian cults would all just shut up and let people live
> their own lives without intervention. . . .
 
M> "I didn't feel I could cut any of this out without destroying
M> some important information! I want to thank David for his
M> response. I am soooo tired of feminism getting a bad name."
 
Actuall, I lost my temper, which should not have gone over the
net. Blasting millions of Feminists for the behaviors of a few
is childish and ignorant. I have known only one feminist who fit
the characture Mic paints: she was a Dianic Witch and one of the
board members / leaders of a local Pro-Choice group--- she would
not talk to me (or any other male who helped at clinic defence),
but would tell a woman to tell me where she wanted me placed. But
I understand a little about where she was coming from and why she
acted that way; Mic, it seems, would rather ignore this woman's
hurts, pains, and frustrations, and blame "Feminism." What rot!
 
M> "Yes, I think that SOME feminists go too far in their beliefs
M> and DO think that they are better than men, but that is not the
M> majority. Whenever you have a large group of people classified
M> as one thing, there is going to be some that don't actually
M> believe as the rest do. Of course those are the ones that will
M> get all the negative attention and the rest of the organization
M> suffers."
 
That's where the majority steps up and denounces the minority view,
as long as they allow said minority opinion to be spoken. This is
something Christian groups often fail to do--- denounce their more
violent, hate-filled groups--- because if they speak against these
groups, they become the targets of the hate groups in turn. The
trick is to "condemn with feeling," and place oneself in the boots
of the decenting few, and see what their motivations are.
 
M> I used to consider myself a feminist until I realized that my scope 
M> was larger than that. Yes, I think that our society is dominated
M> by men, but it is changing. My beliefs are that ALL people should
M> be treated with respect and treated equally. I suppose that makes
M> me a humanist. 
 
If the truth be know, every now and then I agree that women are far
superior to men in a great many things. My roommates (two women)
work MUCH harder and much longer than I, and they get paid less;
maybe this is why I empathise on the side of feminism--- my roommates
have no time to "refuse and resist" the Christian fascist pigs, so
I stand in the place of my roommates. Then I read crap from men like
Mic, and I start to think how much better the world would be without
men messing it up.
 
Bottom line is, I read and hear several orders of magnatudes more
hate, lies, and propaganda by men against women, than I do women
against men. I wonder why Mic doesn't address THAT issue first. One
always works on the life-threatening wounds (hate from men) before
patching up the tiny scratches (hate from women).
 
M> Melissa

--- Maximus 2.01wb