HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: callahan@clubzen.fidonet.org (Greg scanlan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.anime
Subject: Re: moving the Expo
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 08:41:17 PST
Organization: Club Zen BBS - Fidonet/Internet - +1 408 734 2289

wbarnes@sura.net (Bill Barnes) writes:
> 
> >Could someone point out the address of the group that is running Anim????
> >for 93.  I would like to send in my pre-registation payment...
> 
> Ahh, but *which* committee will you send it to?  So far there are two
> people competing for your hard-earned money, and unless they come to
> an accord, you're gonna have some dillemma!
> -- 
> Bill "Whassamatter?!  Can't you take a joke?!" Barnes   wbarnes@sura.net
> Disclaimer:  The author apologizes for any thought-provoking material he may
> 	     have accidentally included and promises not to do it again.
> Datclaimer:  My employers wouldn't WANT to share some of my opinions.

  PLEASE LOOK UP POSTING 4851.
          ........GREG........

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg scanlan -> (callahan@clubzen.fidonet.org)
From: TILTONJ%UOFPORT.BITNET@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU (JAMES TILTON)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.anime
Subject: Battle of the Planets
Date: 24 Jul 92 05:24:00 GMT
To: ANIME-L@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU
Original_To:  JNET%"ANIME-L@VTVM1"

Actually, to be clear, the version I saw was the Battle of the Planets.
We just called it G-Force because that's shorter. (I was about 7 years old.)
I'd never heard of the Turner abomination.  If I had, I would have
asassinated him by now.  I can't believe those names!!!!!!!


James Tilton
University of Portland
TILTONJ@UOFPORT.BITNET
Xref: sparky rec.arts.anime:15307 rec.arts.manga:486
From: dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (David C Blume)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.anime,rec.arts.manga
Subject: Lum, Nausicaa & Mai, FREE!
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:54:12 GMT
Organization: Loral Western Development Labs

I'm giving away a bunch of my English graphic novels.  They are all in
mint condition.  I'm giving them away because I am lazy, and I need more
shelf space  Here are the conditions:

1)  They all go together.
     - Mai, the Psychic Girl (4 graphic novels. (Entire story))
     - Urusei Yatsura (2 graphic novels. (Those released in comic, +2 extras))
     - Nausicaa (4 graphic novels. (all that have been made so far.))

2)  You have to come by and pick them up.  Or, meet me at an A.N.I.M.E.
    or CA/West meeting that I would go to anyway.  If you really want them,
    and don't live within driving distance, I will mail them to you for the
    cost of the mailing.  (I live in Sunnyvale. (Northern California))

First ask, first get.

--David
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+-----+
| <:-)  -KOR fans,   | David Blume            | "..." - KOR fans,     |  o  |
| reading manga #18. | dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com | watching the movie.   | ^ ^ |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+-----+
From: michael@izumi.DIALix.oz.au (Michael Studte)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.anime
Subject: Otakus, fanboys, and psychos (was Re: KOR Questions.)
Distribution: world
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 15:12:53 GMT
Organization: JAFWA, Cal-Animage Zeta, Perth, Western Australia


In article <36100@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> tkim@sdcc3.ucsd.edu writes:
 > to deny that I'm an otaku (although I won't introduce myself as an otaku
 > :-) to people who know my hobby since they'll label me as an otaku
 > whether I like or not. Heck, when I told a Japanese that I like
 > anime & manga, she almost said "Ota-. :-)

Speaking of usage of the term "otaku", I'm sure Gainax made an otaku
injoke even before OnV. What about Coach "Ota" in Gunbuster? He was
called "Ota-kun" by the captain (and a couple of others). Yes, I know
that's the way to address him, but it's also quite a co-incidence them
choosing THAT name considering the number of other injokes in that
series. :)

+-------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Michael Studte    | Japanese Animation Fans of Western Australia |
| 46 Hackbridge Way | CAL-ANIMAGE ZETA, Perth, Australia   +-------+
| Bayswater  6053   | Internet: michaels@DIALix.oz.au      |
| AUSTRALIA         |           michael@izumi.DIALix.oz.au |
+-------------------+ FidoNet:  3:690/728 (MegaTokyo 2033) |
|  Inokuma Yawara   |--------------------------------------+
|        for        | Indiana Kou: "CARROTS!! Why did it   |
|       GOLD!       |               have to be carrots??"  |
+-------------------+--------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.arts.anime
From: bbs.lar@tsoft.sf-bay.org (Larry Greenfield)
Subject: Akira Music on Marketplace
Organization: The TSoft BBS and Public Access Unix, +1 415 969 8238
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 05:03:15 GMT

Just a short humorous note, but I was listening to "Marketplace", a 
business-oriented radio show (30mins) from APR (American Public Radio), 
and inbetween segments, they always play short little musical interludes. 
 Well, in between the "NBA clothes in Asia" and "Business Scams in 
Nigeria" segment, all of a sudden I hear 30 seconds of that great "Akira" 
music (all the drums, and the "sei dah, sei dah....").  
Hmmmm.... :)
:::::Larry:::::

--
Larry Greenfield (bbs.lar@tsoft.sf-bay.org)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.anime,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.taiwan
From: henryc@panix.com (Henry Chan)
Subject: Re: Learning about World War II in Japan
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 06:02:32 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <1992Jul21.184222.14034@husc3.harvard.edu> liu10@husc8.harvard.edu (Eric Liu) writes:
>>> the Japanese think they are the only people suffering in WWII because
>unconditionally!  The militant government was so determined that they would
>have fought on at all cost!  (I believe when the emperor made the surrender
>announcement, many many Japanese were were in shock, and there was a strong
In actuality the Japanese were quite willing to end the fighting months earlier.
In the later years of the war the economic condition for people in the home
islands deteriorated drastically from the devastation inflicted on the Japanese
merchant marine fleet.  The Japanese government were willing to halt fighting
but the Allies wanted an unconditional surrender.  I read that in the famous
announcement by the Emperor he never mentioned the word surrender and many of
the psy-op safe passage certificates never mention the word surrender(to save
face).  

>if a-bombs were not used, the U.S. army would have to invade Japan just like
>what they did to Germany, only at a greater cost.   Remember Okiwana (Sp??)?
>where I think thousands of U.S. soldier died, but hundreds of thousand of 

In the American media the Japanese and the Japanese soldiers were portrayed as
inhuman and antlike.  They were potrayed as the yellow hoard from the East.
(in the Korean War, the Communist Chinese inherited the same stereotypes)  
Life magazine had articles from frontline reporters describing how the Japanese
troops would jump off of cliffs than surrender or fight to the last man.  That
made a big impact at home when America was reeling in from the shock of the
cost of victory for places such as Okinawa.  Wether the A-Bomb saved American
lives is still debatable, but Tokyo had organized civilian militias to resist
the American landings armed with bamboo spears.  For the Japanses citizentry
losing the war was probably welcomed.  It was the end of the Public Security
Bureau police state over the people and ended the drafting of men.  

The HeiSei Emperor has been invited to China by BeiJing.  If the Emperor accepts, it will be the first trip by a Japanese Emperor since the war.  Tokyo is
being hesitant in accepting the offer because of the possibility  for BeiJing
to raise the issue of compensation.  In 1972 I think Chou En-Lai made a speech
to PM Tanaka Kakuei that China renounce her claims to war reparations.  In
light of the events of the recent years; rewriting the history books, the
shooting of the mayor of Nagasaki over his comments of the Emperor, and
continual claims by South Korea made in the behalf of Korean descendant
japanese the Emperor will be expected to make and official apology.

-- 
Don't think of it as four more years of Bush but four additional years
of Quayle and a likely Qualye bid in '96.   Don't Worry Be Happy.

Volvo, there is no substitute.        Henryc@panix.com
From: mfolivo@sactoh0.sac.ca.us (Mark Newton-John)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.anime
Subject: Sailor Moon
Keywords: Renting at Yaohan
Date: 30 Jul 92 09:16:07 GMT
Organization: Sacramento Public Access Unix

Running over to Yaohan San Jose to rent the latest Ranma 1/2 tapes,
I see a new series called Sailor Moon.

DOes anyone know anything about this? Is this kiddie (Anpanman,
Doreamon), pre-teen (Dragonball-Z), or what?


-- 
#############################################################
# Scaramento Public Access UNIX     sactoh0.SAC.CA.US       #  
#  (916) 649-0161, 722-6516 & 722-5068    E-Mail & USENET   #
################## default .signature file ##################
From: macross@foretune.co.jp (Michael House)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.anime
Subject: Re: Barefoot Gen, a different opinion
Date: 26 Jul 92 16:41:53 GMT
Organization: Foretune Co., Ltd.  Tokyo, Japan

In article <1471@tnc.UUCP> m0336@tnc.UUCP (RALPH JENKINS) writes:
>
>Most of the Japanese films I have seen (or anime, at least) that deal
>with war tend not to deal solely with Japanese suffering, but with the
>futility of war in general...that no side seems to "win" a war for
>very long.  Movies that have this pacifist angle include Wings of
>Honneamise, Windaria, and even escapist fare such as Macross.

I would add to this list the original Uchuu Senkan Yamato, wherein
Gamilas bombs Earth trying to make a new home for themselves because their
own planet is becoming uninhabitable, just as they have destroyed countless
other civilizations in a misguided attempt to find a cure for the plague
killing off the Iscandars, who ultimately give the dying Earthpeople the
means to destroy Gamilas, in an attempt to undo some of the wrong they have
wrought by unleashing Gamilas in the first place.

Kodai Susumu makes a simple, eloquent speech about this war that should
never have happened, and how what these people fought and died for
came to nothing.  Everyone is caught up in the tragedy; there are no
winners, only survivors.

I enjoy the occasional mind candy, but I'm also glad that stories with
more serious ideas are also being told in anime and manga.


"I'm in love."
Mason said, "Paying fifteen hundred bucks every thirty days should be good
medicine for that."
	--Erle Stanley Gardner, _The Case of the Sleepwalker's Niece_
From: jkim@jingoro.Eng.Sun.COM (Jun Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.anime
Subject: Re: A tantalising question  (Kyoko weren't no virgin....)
Date: 29 Jul 1992 20:42:12 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: jingoro

In article <1992Jul29.163503.21881@wdl.loral.com> dcb@wdl30.wdl.loral.com (David C Blume) writes:
>scotth@hoshi.corp.sgi.com (Scott Henry) writes:
>>rksuzuki@mott.seas.ucla.edu (Richard K. Suzuki) writes:
>>
>>[...stuff deleted...]
>>
>>rksuzuki> but I'm sure they got things right eventually....:) Since
>>rksuzuki> we're on the subject of virginity, I don't think it's ever
>>rksuzuki> directly stated but it seems pretty obvious Godai was a
>>rksuzuki> virgin until he married Kyoko (took, what...4 or so years?
>>rksuzuki> That's patience....)
>>
>>At least in the manga, Godai was definitely *NOT* a virgin on their
>>wedding night. I don't know if he slept with anybody before than Kyoko,
>>though (my Japanese is pretty poor).
>
>Egads.  I didn't know that.  How did the widow Kyoko consent to this?
>

There was an episode I watched (it was one of the last ones) which dealt
with this...Kyoko and Godai were having a heart to heart in her room
and Kyoko was talking about Souichiro and what he was to her, while Godai
promised that, although he couldn't replace Souichiro, he'd give her
a different kind of happiness... anyway, they get invited to a party
at Cha Cha Maru, and they're about to go, when it starts to snow...They
exchange some more words (sorry, I don't remember what)  and we see them
kiss and the lights go off...

Well, of course, it's only hinted at, but my assumption was that they got
intimate.  (I believe the following episode plays off of this assumption).
How did Kyoko consent to this?  I'm not sure since it almost seems out of
character for her... but then I guess we should remember that she was also
"holding back" her feelings for all those years too...  and maybe the
sweet surrender of the moment was just too much to resist...

(Boy, that last sentence sounds like it came straight out of some 
romance novel...  :)


--
Jun Kim                                    jkim@jingoro.Eng.Sun.Com
Sun Microsystems           "It's amazing that that tiny little brain of his 
Mountain View, CA           can generate enough energy to keep his legs moving"
From: michael@izumi.DIALix.oz.au (Michael Studte)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.anime
Subject: Otakus, fanboys, and psychos (was Re: KOR Questions.)
Distribution: world
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 15:08:28 GMT
Organization: JAFWA, Cal-Animage Zeta, Perth, Western Australia


In article <1992Jul24.204911.1084@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com writes:
 > However, there is another, darker connotation to "otaku" in Japan.
 > Because of the Miyazaki murders (no relation to Hayao Miyazaki, see
 > ANIMAG V2.1), "otaku" has acquired a connotation among some people
 > not unlike "psychopath".  I think that's the reason Hiroshi doesn't
 > want to be called an "otaku".  I, for one, plan to respect that.

Yes, but people who do believe these darker connotations are the sort
of people who believe what tabloid newspapers write! Those sorts of
people are a lot more dangerous than your average otaku. :)

+-------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Michael Studte    | Japanese Animation Fans of Western Australia |
| 46 Hackbridge Way | CAL-ANIMAGE ZETA, Perth, Australia   +-------+
| Bayswater  6053   | Internet: michaels@DIALix.oz.au      |
| AUSTRALIA         |           michael@izumi.DIALix.oz.au |
+-------------------+ FidoNet:  3:690/728 (MegaTokyo 2033) |
|  Inokuma Yawara   |--------------------------------------+
|        for        | Indiana Kou: "CARROTS!! Why did it   |
|       GOLD!       |               have to be carrots??"  |
+-------------------+--------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.arts.anime
From: ken@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Ken Primer)
Subject: Re: Otakus, fanboys, and psychos (was Re: KOR Questions.)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 05:00:58 GMT

conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Conty 1/2) writes:

>In article <Jul.24.08.42.11.1992.1341@remus.rutgers.edu> pearl@remus.rutgers.edu (Starbuck) writes:
>
>> > >Hiroshi "Death to all Otakus" Haga 
>> I think what we have here is a culture clash caused by the American
>> definition of Otaku and the traditional Japanese definition of Otaku.
>
>Actually, it's a little more complex than that.
>
>For us Americans, "otaku" has a connotation not unlike "fanboy", which is
>that of a rabid fan.   Some people jokingly refer to themselves as "fanboys",
>using a bit of self-deprecating humor ("After I bought all the back issues
>of MUCUS MAN, I went and bought all the compilation volumes!  Gosh, I'm
>such a fanboy...").  That's the sense in which people like me use the word
>"otaku".
>
>However, there is another, darker connotation to "otaku" in Japan.
>Because of the Miyazaki murders (no relation to Hayao Miyazaki, see
>ANIMAG V2.1), "otaku" has acquired a connotation among some people
>not unlike "psychopath".  I think that's the reason Hiroshi doesn't
>want to be called an "otaku".  I, for one, plan to respect that.
    Ok, fine let's not call him Otaku, I can understand that.... But is it
really that bad??? How did Sonada come up with Otaku generation? He has a
sense of humor just like an American fanboy...maybe even a Japanese Otaku?
Many people love to call themselves fanboys but would rather not be called 
fanboys by others. I suspect it is the same in Japan.

-- 
  RUMORS OF MY DEMISE ARE IN FACT...
ARE NOT EXAGGERATED! I AM IN FACT DEAD.        ken@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu

                        <<FNORD>> 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.anime
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Conty 1/2)
Subject: Re: Otakus, fanboys, and psychos (was Re: KOR Questions.)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 03:50:07 GMT

In article <36157@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, tkim@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Tonghyun Kim) writes:
> In article <seQXECm00WB9IwI1R=@andrew.cmu.edu> hh0u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Hiroshi Haga) writes:
> >
> >Hm, apparently you don't know where the word 'Otaku' come from....  
> >
> >Heh heh, I still need to learn a lot about English.  ^_^
> 
> I know "otaku" comes from a formal form of "you", used by many anime
> fans in 80's. But "otaku" in its original meaning is used by both
> genders. Please site the reference that describes "feminine" 
> quality in the word.

It's polite speech.  If I remember correctly, "o-taku" has the same
connotation as "you and your household".

BTW, about why liking anime is thought to be "not OK" by some:

- Maybe it's not so noticeable in college, but out here in the grossly
  misnamed "real" world watching animation and reading comics is a weird
  thing for a "professional" to do.  I would assume that in Japan, where
  uniformity and conformity are a virtue, it's even worse.

  Then again, I can't remember the last time I gave a %u@k whether people
  thought I was weird or not.
-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			The Incredible Man-with-no-Life
			      jester@ihlpl.att.com
		    Disclaimer: You're not dealing with AT&T
Newsgroups: rec.arts.anime
From: takahash@ntmtv.UUCP (Alan Takahashi)
Subject: Re: COR?
Keywords: Nanmo
Reply-To: takahash@ntmtv.UUCP (Alan Takahashi)
Organization: Northern Telecom Inc, Mountain View, CA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:38:25 GMT

In article <1465@tnc.UUCP> m0336@tnc.UUCP (RALPH JENKINS) writes:
>
>Forget "Kimagure".  Someone asked me today what the title "Orange
>Road" meant.  Couldn't think of anything.  So, anyone know just where
>the "Orange Road" in "Kimagure Orange Road" is?
> 
>-RJ

OK, so this *is* a hard one... :-)

Ummmmmm, well there was an Orange *Street* that appeared in one of
the first episodes (I think the 5th).  Is that enough justification??

Naaawwwwwwwwww... :-)

><I get the feeling this has been asked before.>

You're right...

-------------------------  NEW .SIG IN PROGRESS  -----------------------------
Alan Takahashi                          !        hplabs   amdahl
Northern Telecom Inc.                   !            XXX XXX
Mountain View, CA                       ! UUCP:  ...!{-----}!ntmtv!takahash
					!               |  
"When you need to knock on wood is when !              ames
  you realize the world's composed of   ! INTERNET:
  aluminum and vinyl." -- Flugg's Law   !   ntmtv!takahash@ames.arc.nasa.gov
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: anthony@ender.tamu.edu (Anthony Lau)
Subject: Madoka Gif
Organization: Texas A&M University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 00:09:58 GMT

	About two years ago, there was a 3meg Madoka gif floating around.  
	Does anybody have this gif?

						Anthony "Ender" Lau

"Yuri?  Dokoyou?  Nani yatten no you?"     "Kei?  Dokoyou?  Nani yatten no you?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
anthony@ender.tamu.edu		"Ureshii, ureshii, yorokobi, yorokobi..."
all5044@tamsun.tamu.edu		- Sutenpii
From: jogle@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim))
Newsgroups: rec.arts.anime
Subject: Re: More Streamline mercenary dubbing
Date: 31 Jul 92 01:56:12 GMT
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM

Speaking of Streamline and their dubbing, according to the latest
issue of Previews their version of "Affair of Nolandia" (you know,
Dirty Pair, sort of 8-) will be out this October!



-- 
Kansas Jim (Jim Ogle, TORG guru)
jogle@aoc.nrao.edu (NRAO-VLBA, Socorro New Mexico)
"I'd be apathetic if I cared."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.anime
From: francis@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Francis Ho)
Subject: info on Metal Aromored Police Metal Jack
Followup-To: fih1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: francis@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Francis Ho)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 00:03:28 GMT


has anyone seen "Metal Armored Police Metal"?
(any reviews, synopsis, opinions?)

on other matters, how many episodes is MS Gundam 0083?


-f92

Francis I. Ho                     You can dig for silver with a shovel of gold
francis@cunixF.cc.columbia.edu    You can search for a lover and a hand to hold
                                  You can wait forever or so I've been told
Newsgroups: rec.arts.anime
From: kilpatri@nextnet.ccs.csus.edu ()
Subject: BGC book
Originator: kilpatri@nextnet
Organization: California State University Sacramento
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 02:41:44 GMT

I finally got that big Bandai Bubblegum Crisis book and it is totally awesome.
If you are a BGC fan, you have to get this.  It has pictorial retrospective
of every OVA (4 pages for 1-4, 6 pages for 5-8, all full color, with other 
original artwork for the episode) and lots of character development sketches
and even a map of Mega-Tokyo.  I totally love this book.  It is too awesome for
words.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
"I gotta fly like a duck...I gotta run like a wounded badger"
Alternate lyrics for "Back to Paradise" from Gundam 0083
kilpatri@nextnet.ccs.csus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.anime
From: bn981@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ryan Mathews)
Subject: Anime Reebok Commercial
Reply-To: bn981@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ryan Mathews)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 04:21:12 GMT


Mike runs Anime Expo...
Dave runs AnimeCon...

Mike is skilled at running a convention...
Dave is skilled at running a convention...

Mike has contacts in high places...
Dave has contacts in high places...

Mike wears Reebok Anime Crosstrainers...
Dave wears Reebok Anime Crosstrainers...

Okay... but who makes the most noise?

MIKE:  "Anime Expo is moving right along!"
DAVE:  "I can run a better convention than Mike!"
MIKE:  "We're still accepting memberships!"
DAVE:  "I'll accept Mike's memberships!"

TO BE SETTLED IN SAN JOSE...

(I hope they both have a sense of humor... :-) )

			---------- Ryan Mathews
-- 
Email: bn981@cleveland.freenet.edu      DISCLAIMER:  Any resemblence of this
Snailmail: 786 High Street              article to rational thought is
           Bedford, OH 44146            purely coincidental.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.anime
From: rtang@sunee.waterloo.edu (The One Your Mother Warned You About!)
Subject: Supernatural Beast City
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 12:13:34 GMT

Has anyone out there seen, "Supernatural Beast City"?
What do you all think of it.  Anyone willing to make a copy
of it for me? (I'll provide tape and postage).  Also, I heard
Streamline has the rights to distribute it.  I assume it will
be a dub?  Correct me if I am wrong.  Anyone seen THIS version?
Is it true to the original? Is it worth getting? 
Any info will be appreciated.

ALSO:  I dont really need to have english (dub or sub) if anyone
        can get it direct from Japan.  Give me a shout.

Yoroshiku onegaishimasu, 


Ray
Newsgroups: rec.arts.fine,rec.music.classical
From: packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer)
Subject: Re: Comparative Art
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Dept. of Independence
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 10:33:00 GMT

Most people's experience of the visual arts of any distinction comes
from photography. Rec.photo has roughly 50 percent more postings
per week than rec.music.classical.