From: weigl@sibelius.inria.fr (Konrad Weigl)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.moto.harley
Date: 31 Jul 92 11:47:44 GMT
Organization: INRIA, Sophia-Antipolis (Fr)

In article <Bs44qu.Lv6@wpi.WPI.EDU>, mick@maxine.wpi.edu (Ravi Narayan) writes:
|> Somewhere, Sometime, Thus Spake weigl@sibelius.inria.fr (Konrad Weigl):

|> :- We do appreciate the esteem of our dear readership...
|> :- Just like the prisoners in Siberia appreciated that Stalin esteemed their 
|> :- part in the building of the Soviet Union...
|> 
|> 	stalin was one person, whereas rec.motorcycles is a newsgroup. to
|> 	assign a character to it based on the behaviour of some of its
|> 	readers is IMO inaccurate.

I did not and will not assign.
I do and did have a choice to get out and did.

|> 	i, as an individual, have NO MEANS of depriving you of your
|> 	forum. as the people who deigned usenet maybe thought (as did maybe
|> 	those that designed the concept of democracy),

Well, you do if you vote no.


|> "the majority is
|> 	always right" and if this majority (that is assumed to be right)
|> 	chooss to vote down the group, you may well have yourself to
|> 	blame for not providing cohesive arguements in favour of
|> 	the creation of the group.

It is NOT a majority vote:
A relative minority of antagonists can vote down the group against the 
wish of the majority of proponents; refer to guidelines please.
In fact, if we have e.g. 101 proponents, 2 antagonist can vote the 
newsgroup down.

|> if your case is against the idea that
|> 	the majority choice must be right, do not blame that on me. 

Refer to above re;Majority;
furthermore, I do deem the action of no-voters to deprive others and
me of a forum which cannot be replaced by rec.mot an infringement
upon my rights.

I stress once more that:
The creation of rec.mot.harley does NOT infringe upon other people's right of
free expression;
Many Harley riders have left rec.mot already, and the Harley-specific
posts in see up there are of the kind
("Harley rider waived" and similar, no tech tips, no tuning, no mod tips,
nothing.

|>if
|> 	your case is against me being part of the majority that might
|> 	vote the group down, i have already answered that.

I have no _case_ against you.

I just can't resist. 8-)

|> 
|> :- Where we have note that the creation of such a forum would not infringe upon
|> :- yoursorothers rights.Since those that have left will not come back to rec.mot
|> 
|> 	that is sufficient reason to not vote no, but hardly enough to
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> 	vote yes.

That is ALL we proponents want;
we have enough _proponents_ to get the group.
Our problems are the antagonists...

 
|> 	its a simple question really.
|> 
|> 	do you want to create rec.m.h because:
|> 
|> 	1. flaming of harleys in r.m a year and a half ago.
|> 	2. flaming of harleys in r.m even now.
|> 	3. h-dmotorcycling is different from the rest.
|> 	4. you hate jap bikes.
|> 	5. some or all of the above. (if some, specify).
|> 
|> 	not included as a choice: 6. because. of course you *do not
|> 	have* to answer this.


Well, I will certainly answer it:

There is and was a large majority of people for the creation of the
newsgroup rec.mot.harley;
A minority has defeated the move last time, depriving people like Jon Peticolas 
of access to a forum they want, i.e. a forum of Harley riders 
(Jon can get neither mailing list nor alt.hierarchy).

The argument that the creation of rec.mot.harley will destroy the community
of motorcyclists is fallacious, as I have shown:
The community has been split by the vote _against_ rec.mot.harley:
The fact that Harley riders were voted down _did_ alienate them, e.g. me,
and I have left;

rec.mot.harley might bring these people back to the rec. world, where they
can communicate again with us.

To 4)
I own currently four bikes, of which three are japanese;
I have owned up to eight bikes, of which five were japanese,
one european, and two harleys.

Konrad Weigl               Tel. +33 93 65 78 63
Projet Pastis              Fax  +33 93 65 76 43
INRIA                      email weigl@sophia.inria.fr
B.P. 93
06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex 
France