HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cheese@next05wor.wam.umd.edu (Jason Steinhorn)
Subject: Re: what one should'nt do ..
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 16:41:24 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.181250.20135@pony.Ingres.COM> greg@Ingres.COM (Greg)  
writes:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'd like to know what to avoid doing that marks one as a counter.
> 
> I was splitting 10's at the Clarion in Reno one weeknight on the
> midnight shift and I think I got marked as a (losing) counter..
> (I was betting a 3-10 spread)

Splitting tens isn't always such a great idea.  First of all, if you have  
a minimum bet out, you're not going to fool anyone by splitting tens for  
cover, and secondly, if you have a large bet out and the pit thinks you're  
counting, they would assume it might be reasonable to split.  Anyway, I've  
only split tens once, with close to my maximum bet out, and pulled an Ace  
on the first ten and a ten on the second, and couldn't resplit due to the  
rules.  I don't think I fooled anyone.  In fact, I probably just pissed  
the pit off more since I think I was being watched.
Also, if you're playing single deck, 3-10 is a large spread and you have  
to be careful not to increase nor decrease your bet, at any time, by more  
than twice or half your last bet.  This is one of the most basic counting  
ideas when trying to avoid getting barred, yet for some reason people will  
still jump from a close to minimum to a maximum bet after one hand.

> 
> Are there some  net.guidelines for rookie counters  ??

I don't claim to be an expert counter (far from it), but I can honestly  
say all it takes is common sense.  If you ever wonder what to do in a  
particular situation to avoid getting tagged, put yourself in the position  
of a non-counter, and try to figure out what he would do.
 
> And how much time does it take  for the dealers and pitbosses to
> forget a face ??

Working in a restaurant through high school and college, I can honestly  
say, if someone makes an impression on you, it will be a long time before  
you forget his/her face.  Try not to make an impression.
I'd suggest reading Ian Anderson's 'Turning the Tables on LV.'
It's a good book, and gave me a lot to think about. 


    ____  _                                   
   (      \)     ___   ___         ___             Jason Steinhorn
    \      \____ \__)  \__)   /\   \__)         University of Maryland         
     \____/ \   \/\____/\____/ _)__/\____         cheese@wam.umd.edu
From: jawebb@leo.unm.edu (James Webb)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: More on Sports Betting
Date: 16 Apr 92 07:56:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.!wzjwc=
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque



	With all of this talk on the sports betting question, I'd like to
add my own.

	Let's say Joe Blow lives in Vegas and knows he can pick 9 games
in a row, has $2000, and can do math.

	He figures $2000^9 = $1,024,000 and goes to bet the games.

	Not taking into account the 10% vig on the bets, can he do
this by placing 9 consecutive bets?

	I've asked different people about this and they say different things.

Is there a limit to the amount he can bet? 

Can he be barred if he wins 5 or 6 in a row and the casino doesn't want him
taking their money anymore?

If there is a limit (say $2500 per bet) can he bet $2500 20 times?

If this is the case, will the line be refigured after every bet?

Where would he go to place these bets? Cesears? Harrahs?

Two of the games are being played at the same time. He wants to parlay them.
How does this work? What are the odds for a three game parlay? How bout four?

I saw Bob Stupak bet $1,000,000 on the Cincinati-San Fransico Superbowl. Did
the line jump 3 or 4 points? If this was bet on a regular season game would
the line jump more, less, or about the same as a post season game? Can you
bet that much on a regular season game? How much is bet normally on a regular
season game?

If he wanted to pick an underdog, could he better his odds by making a 
moneyline bet hoping for the upset? How does that work?


	Anyways, I hope that someone can answer this vast multitude of
questions.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: gil@datasrv.chi.il.us (Gil Ben-Noon)
Subject: Any known Cazinos in Europe? I need a list
Organization: DataServe LTD. Information and comm. services, Israel
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 92 11:33:16 GMT

Hello,

I'm looking for a list of Cazinos in Europe. can anyone provide me
such a list?
PLEASE send it to my Email - I'm not receiving this newsgroup.

Thanks in advance,

Gil Ben-Noon.

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From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: <None>
Date: 12 Apr 92 17:08:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: cells.JACOBS.92Apr12120836
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
In-reply-to: bhoughto@hopi.intel.com's message of 12 Apr 92 02:10:44 GMT

In article <10333@inews.intel.com> bhoughto@hopi.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) writes:
>				   --Blair
>				     "Guess which one is mine.
>				      Hint:  I now have a two-dog
>				      backyard and about 900 sq. mi.
>				      of indian reservation across
>				      the street."

But have you bought drapes yet?
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Limit congressmen to two terms.  One in office.  One in jail."
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan)
Subject: what happened to the inside stuff on the dogs?
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 00:43:20 GMT

A couple weeks ago someone posted that he worked at a dog track
and wanted to know if anyone was interested in reading about the
'inside stuff'.  I tried to reply email, bounced, but no matter
since I saw a couple interested replies, and I didn't want to
METOO the forum.  I been waiting patiently.

I'd be interested in hearing the 'inside' scoop on anything.  Did
I miss it?

I hope you didn't get rubbed out!

Mike Sullivan
From: franzen@iris.usc.edu (Wolfgang Franzen)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: a few bj questions
Date: 6 Apr 1992 19:40:54 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: iris.usc.edu

This discussion about doubling for less piqued my interest and so I
modified some of my infinite deck analysis software (all of three lines)
to see how the basic doubling strategy would be affected if one only
doubled for half the original amount.  Here F entries indicate you should
not double in either case, T entries indicate you should double in either
case, and (T) entries indicate that you should double for the full amount,
but not for half the original amount.  Therefore, Wayne is vindicated in
the sense that for the special case he mentioned, namely player holds 11,
doubling by HALF is still more advantangeous than optimal hitting in the
same situations where regular doubling is (sorry Wayne).  However, my
general analysis still holds.

HARD TOTALS:
      2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10  A
 9    F (T) T  T  T  F  F  F  F  F
10    T  T  T  T  T  T  T (T) F  F
11    T  T  T  T  T  T  T  T  T  F

SOFT TOTALS:
      2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10  A
13    F  F  F  F (T) F  F  F  F  F
14    F  F  F (T)(T) F  F  F  F  F
15    F  F  F  T  T  F  F  F  F  F
16    F  F  T  T  T  F  F  F  F  F
17    F  T  T  T  T  F  F  F  F  F
18    F (T) T  T  T  F  F  F  F  F

Wolfgang
From: al.sorhaindo@execnet.com (al sorhaindo)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: foxwoods info needed
Date: 13 Apr 92 11:42:05 GMT
Reply-To: "al sorhaindo" <al.sorhaindo@execnet.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Executive Networks Information

(regarding thr Foxwoods Casino in Connecticut.)
DT>They allow up to 3 people to play on a BJ spot (though the total bet
DT>must be under the table max.). So if you waiting for a seat, you can
DT>back-count, and then just put up a bet when it's favorable.
DT>However, the person who owns that spot gets to make the decisions,
DT>so it can back-fire on you. So, you should look for another counter,
DT>(very few here) or a perfect basic strategy player before doing this.

You should also make sure the person playing the hand has sufficient funds.
Suppose you have a $100 bet out and the player is dealt A-A vs a dealer 7.
Imagine your horror if the player does not split his aces and draws two bricks
because the player lacked the money to split his pair.

What happens if the player playing the hand splits or doubles down and 
someone betting on their hand does not have the money to do so?

Depending on the answer,
if you are betting on someone else's hand, and they do something crazy like
splitting tens vs a dealer ten it may be a good idea for you to pretend you
are broke and not put up the additional money.

                                       Al
---
 ~ DeLuxe} 1.21 #11688 ~ Al.Sorhaindo@Execnet.com
--
Executive Network Information System   (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: messiah@nevada.edu (MARCO)
Subject: "all-in" poker strategy
Originator: messiah@redrock.nevada.edu
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 09:10:29 GMT

To poker fans who are familiar with "all-in" rules commonly used at
Nevada casino poker, I pose the following question to ponder:

Is there an optimal "all-in" strategy? It seems to me that if your
chips are low, and you are in a bad position (Hold 'Em poker assumed),
or have a hand that needs to draw cards cheap, then it can only benefit
you not to have to go into your pocket if you run out of chips.

The other side of the coin is that your also gonna get good cards that
you will want to jam the pot to the max with, but there won'y be any
chips in front of you.

Is going all-in worth foregoing potential profits? Are there any special
playing requirements (minimum calling, betting, raising standards) that
should be adopted? After all if you don't take some risk with dwindling
chips, then they will soon get eaten up by posting the blinds (Hold 'Em -
equivalent to the forced bet on 1st low card in Stud)...

Has anybody ever done a simulation of this type? Thanx...

(P.S. HEY DAMIAN - Get back to work!)
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: a few bj questions
Date: 7 Apr 92 00:00:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: cells.JACOBS.92Apr6190015
	<JJ.92Apr2084335@sol.slc.mentorg.com> <1992Apr3.211247.4555@ultra.com>
	<ku1mb8INNt2m@iris.usc.edu>
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
In-reply-to: franzen@iris.usc.edu's message of 6 Apr 1992 16:06:16 -0700

In article <ku1mb8INNt2m@iris.usc.edu> franzen@iris.usc.edu (Wolfgang Franzen) writes:
> Since neither Steve Jacobs nor Michael Hall has taken the time to respond
> to what I consider to be a possibly misleading posting, I will put in my
> two cents worth.
>
> Wayne Hathaway (wayne@ultra.com) makes the following observations:
>
>> Anyway, I just wanted point out that the term "double down" is a bit
>> of a misnomer, in that you do *NOT* have to exactly double your bet.
>> In fact, you can bet any additional amount UP TO the size of the
>> original bet (subject to table limit restrictions).
>
>> Remember this when you've got a $20 bet out and you get an 11 and want
>> to double, but find that you have only $10 more with you; go ahead and
>> bet the $10!  (Money-management issues aside, of course! :-)
>
> Since I have never seen anyone attempt to ``double for less'', I can only
> take Wayne's word that this is allowed.  However, assuming this is allowed,
> it is clearly not always advantageous to do so.

Although this is allowed, it generally gains unwanted attention from the
pit.  In some casinos, the dealers are required to call out "doubling for
less" if a player does this.  However, it is quite common to see players
double for less in tournament situations.

[omit excellent analysis of doubling down]

> Furthermore, when you have anything less than 11 then E[H1] < E[Hopt] no
> matter what the dealer's upcard, and doubling for less becomes a much
> more dubious proposition.

You are quite correct.  However, if the player's strategy were based on
a utility function that includes factors other than expected gain (such
as variance), then there may be cases where doubling for less will give
the maximum utility.
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Limit congressmen to two terms.  One in office.  One in jail."
From: jacko@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Jacko)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Weather in LV
Date: 15 Apr 92 21:25:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsl.1992Apr15.212515.29320
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr15.190910.25104@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> jschwarz@lonestar.utsa.edu (Jan A. Schwarz) writes:
>
>  Could someone tell me real quick what the weather is like in
>  Las Vegas?  Temperature, etc.
>
>  We will be going this weekend.

As of about 10 days ago it was perfect.  Sunny, daytime highs in the low
80's, nighttime lows in the mid 60's.  Bring your bathing suit, leave all
the jackets and sweaters and stuff home.

Jacko.
"And bring your mask and snorkel if you're Frank"
From: tmcdonal@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Tom McDonald)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: what happened to the inside stuff on the dogs?
Date: 12 Apr 92 18:21:23 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio

In article <1992Apr11.004320.27220@morrow.stanford.edu> GC.SUL@forsythe.
stanford.edu (Sullivan) writes:
>A couple weeks ago someone posted that he worked at a dog track
>and wanted to know if anyone was interested in reading about the
>'inside stuff'.  I tried to reply email, bounced, but no matter
>since I saw a couple interested replies, and I didn't want to
>METOO the forum.  I been waiting patiently.
>
>I'd be interested in hearing the 'inside' scoop on anything.  Did
>I miss it?

Well, I'm not the one who posted the original, but I do have one story for
you.

In his early twenties my uncle worked for a dog track in Iowa.  There was a dog
that was finishing first every race by a wide margin every time there.  When
it came time for him to race again, my Dad went over to make a few bucks off
him.  The odds were almost even money, but he was going to place a fairly large
bet, so he didn't care.  Before he bet, his brother (my uncle) warned him not
to; that the dog wouldn't even finish in the money.  The day before the race
the dog had had his toenails clipped, he told.  My Dad reluctantly didn't bet
on that dog.  The race started, and the dog leaped out to a quick start, but 
it hadn't gone more than 50 yards when it slowed _way_ down.  It finished last,
and almost everyone in the place had bet on him.  The race supposedly wasn't 
fixed, but this seems like one of the easist ways of doing it to me.

						-Tom

-- 
Okay, one more time.  This is your brain. (egg)
This is your brain on drugs. (egg in frying pan)
Any Questions?
"Yeah, can I have mine scrambled?"
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: a few bj questions
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:10:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: cells.JACOBS.92Apr8171038
	<1992Apr8.153206.19973@engage.pko.dec.com>
	<1992Apr8.222653.9794@fid.morgan.com>
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
In-reply-to: sethb@fid.morgan.com's message of Wed, 8 Apr 1992 22:26:53 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.222653.9794@fid.morgan.com> sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart) writes:
>
> In article <1992Apr8.153206.19973@engage.pko.dec.com>
> cantor@star.enet.dec.com (Dave Cantor) writes:
>
>>I suspect (but can't prove) that for every hand in which full doubling
>>is advantageous, there is some fraction x, 0 < x < 1, such that doubling
>>for less than x*the_flat_bet is disadvantageous compared to just hitting,
>>and doubing for less than the_flat_bet, but for more than x*the_flat_bet
>>is more advantageous than just hitting, but less so than full doubling.
>
> Actually, this is true if you allow x to equal 0.  Consider a
> situation (say, 10 vs. 6) where you will draw only one card, and the
> odds favor you.  Doubling for any amount is better than hitting.
> There could also be a situation (which I'd hate to have to try to
> construct) where doubling for the full bet has the same value as
> hitting, doubling for less has less value.

Holding A-2 vs. dealer's 4 is very close to this situation.  Expectation
for doubling is +.115, for hitting it is +.110, so this becomes less
favorable than hitting if you double for less than 90% of a full bet.
If you take risk of ruin into account, it might be better to just hit
with this hand.

Similar situations arise when doubling is only slightly better than
standing.  A good example of this is A8 vs. dealer's 6, which has
an expectation of .4826 for doubling and .4824 for standing.  If you
make a $1000 bet and draw this situation, then find that you only
have $998 in your pocket, standing gives you a higher expectation than
does doubling for $998.  If you factor in any risk of ruin, then standing
is always going to be the better play unless you have a huge bankroll.
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Limit congressmen to two terms.  One in office.  One in jail."
From: Dave.Mortimer@bird.com (Dave Mortimer)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: CRACKS/CHEATS
Date: 16 Apr 92 03:52:00 GMT

if your'e looking for cracsk/ cheats of that similar nature call Star fleet bbs
908-985-9022. Send some of yours up there if you have

 * Origin: (1:107/323@FidoNet)
From: sheneman@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Jerry Sheneman)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 21:38:55 GMT
Subject: Betting on election offered?
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID
Newsgroups: rec.gambling

Does anyone know if Vegas takes bets for U.S. Presidential
elections?  Like giving odds on who will win?  If so, and they
would accept bets early, I would think you could get pretty good
odds for Perot and probably win.   Anyone know if they do this?


-Jerry S.
From: Eugene Shekhtman <escozzlab@berkeley.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: RE: SPORTS BETTING
Date: 6 Apr 1992 11:40:49 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley
Distribution: world
     <1992Apr6.022728.4552@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gpb1mac16.berkeley.edu
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.0


Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: irwin@uvmark.uucp (Frank Irwin)
Subject: Re: FAQ question
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 12:47:18 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <23029@goofy.Apple.COM> Knight@AppleLink.apple.com (Eric Knight) writes:
>Does the FAQ get posted here publicly or do I have to request it?

The answer to that question is in the FAQ.

:-)
-- 
 ============================================================================
 Frank Irwin                   |  "Alas, a lass is what I lack.
 Vmark Software, Inc.          |   Alack, I lack a lass."
 irwin%uvmark@merk.com         |     - Once Upon a Mattress.
From: splee@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Seng-Poh Lee, Speedy)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Players Club: Good deal?
Date: 8 Apr 92 01:32:00 GMT
Followup-To: rec.travel
Organization: Free Software Foundation

I'm planning a trip to Vegas in May, and am considering joining
Players Club just to get the two free nights and discounted
rooms. Is this for real and are there any hidden gotchas? I'm
not a regular visitor, so I'm wondering if the $125 will pay for
itself in just one trip.

I'd like to hear pros and cons from people who have experience with it.

Thanks.

--
Seng-Poh Lee    <splee@gnu.ai.mit.edu>
From: Dave.Mortimer@bird.com (Dave Mortimer)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: LORD OF THE RINGS VOL 1
Date: 16 Apr 92 03:57:00 GMT

Does anyone know how to pass thei F*&#@_0( maze after you have left the shire?
I'm really stuck.

 * Origin: (1:107/323@FidoNet)
From: Chris.Parrott@bird.com (Chris Parrott)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: CARRIERS AT WAR
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:39:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: bird.703530175.6

Jim,

     In a message dated 14 Apr 92 you wrote ...

> Thats the one...a much (supposedly) improved version of that
> game....it ought'a be great

Yeah, I guess now that the technology has improved SSG is re-writing their old
games to take advantage of it.  I really liked Reach for the Stars, that is
one of my all-time favorites...

Later!

Message downloaded from the data banks of:  Chris Parrott

... He's dead, Jim!  You grab his tricorder, I'll get his wallet!
 * Origin: -=> The Richwood BBS <=- 409-265-5958 [USR HST/DS](1:3812/10.13)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
Subject: scratch tickets
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 12:48:59 GMT


	Who knows how to see through the cover material on scratch
	tickets?  I have one of the burger king ones, and the
	first spot I scratched said, "suprise".

-- 
	Alan Yasutovich
	"inquiring  (and nosey) minds WANT TO KNOW!!!"
	I can remember when "safe sex" meant having a padded headboard!!
	Tick Tock.....Tick Tock......Tick Tock .....Tick Tock......
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart)
Subject: Re: a few bj questions
Organization: hardly any
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 22:26:53 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.153206.19973@engage.pko.dec.com>
cantor@star.enet.dec.com (Dave Cantor) writes:

>I suspect (but can't prove) that for every hand in which full doubling
>is advantageous, there is some fraction x, 0 < x < 1, such that doubling
>for less than x*the_flat_bet is disadvantageous compared to just hitting,
>and doubing for less than the_flat_bet, but for more than x*the_flat_bet
>is more advantageous than just hitting, but less so than full doubling.

Actually, this is true if you allow x to equal 0.  Consider a
situation (say, 10 vs. 6) where you will draw only one card, and the
odds favor you.  Doubling for any amount is better than hitting.
There could also be a situation (which I'd hate to have to try to
construct) where doubling for the full bet has the same value as
hitting, doubling for less has less value.

These analyses all assume linear utility of money.  Consider the case
where your bet is $15, you have $10 in cash, and if you double for $15
and lose, you'll have to walk home.  It pays to double for $10, not $15.

I'm sure I can construct cases, assuming log-optimal utility, where
taking insurance for less than the full bet is called for.  This
should also apply to doubling.  (I would play with the deck
composition to arrange these.)

Seth		sethb@fid.morgan.com
From: Chris.Pingor@bird.com (Chris Pingor)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: NHL HOCKEY
Date: 15 Apr 92 05:02:00 GMT


       Im sure many of yas are familier with the nhl hockey for sega. Do any of
yas know if there will be a IBM version out? ITS AWSOME...can any one tell
me if there are any versions out or hockey gamnes out other then...Gretkys
hockey 1 and 2 and faceoff that are any good?
               chris

---
 * Origin: The Batcave BBS (908)354-6855 <HST/DS> RA 1.11+ (1:2605/610)