HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: The name "alt.m&k" contains an illegal character.
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff & Nonsense Division
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:10:38 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.160426.11592@alf.uib.no> magnus@ii.uib.no writes:

>There now exists a
>charter for the group, it *has* been discussed on alt.config - I admit
>there were a few mistakes in the beginning,

I'm not sure there was a mistake that you didn't make in this process.

>but Tim did not at any
>point try to help - he never suggested a correct name - he never told
>me what I should do, he told me what I should have done. 

Eventually, there comes a time when there is no longer anything that
you can do to correct a situation except to say, "I blew it.  Maybe
I'll wise up next time."  Once you've tried twice and failed to create
a group while ignoring the recommendations sent to you, I think
frankly that my willingness to discuss it with you at *any* level is
pretty considerate.

What you should have done was to discuss this group on alt.config
before you went newgroup-happy.  You didn't.  C'est la vie.  The next
time you get it into your mind to create a newsgroup, maybe you'll
remember.  If you don't, well, that's just your tough luck, now, isn't
it?

>	Harry> Here's a voice in support of his efforts to change the
>	Harry> perception that alt is where any fool gets to mess with
>	Harry> other sites' configurations.
>
>I don't care about your configuration. All I want is for you to let
>your users know that there is a group called a.m.a.k - if they don't
>want to read it - no problem. 

If that's what you want me to do, then you're well-advised to be
considerate about it.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.discordia
From: holt_c@cubldr.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: Alt.Spam
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 04:20:44 GMT

In article <92321.145544IO20902@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, <IO20902@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
> 
> Spam, you can buy it, fry it, sling it, and Yes, even EAT it if you must.
> Spam, the only savior with a list of ingredients! `
> Spam, the one YOU can find in ANY grocery store, in ANY state and MANY nations!
> Spam, TELLS you for CERTAIN when it goes bad!
> Spam, something you can feed to your neighbors dog to make him or her smell bad
> 
> - - - If Sh*t doesn't happen, SPAM will. - - -

I once had blackened SPAM, seriously.  It tasted OK but I couldn't eat very
much, it was NOT a religious thing I was just hungry.  Just thought I'd let 
you know.
							Sincerely,
							Lieutenant Wilkes
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: alt.saturday.night.live
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:40:44 GMT

bedford@asterix.gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Darryl Bedford) writes:
>>From AGRANT@mta.ca:
>>        If it is possible could you please start a newsgroup for
>>me and could you call it Alt.Saturday.Night.Live

>Well, is there demand for a.s.n.l.?

I could go for an alt.tv.snl - it's definitely a show you know isn't
going to go away in a few years, although we've seen the horror that
results when Lorne Michaels leaves.
-- 
Custom is the law of fools.   -- Vanburgh
Xref: sparky alt.config:7023 alt.activism.d:4198 talk.environment:4630
From: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.activism.d,talk.environment
Subject: Re: CFD: alt.politics.green-party
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:39:02 GMT
Reply-To: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland

In article <Jym.15Nov1992.0056@naughty-peahen>, Jym Dyer <jym@mica writes:
>=+= I recommend that we create an alt.politics.green-party
>newsgroup.  In the U.S., the Green Party did quite well
>in this last election -- certainly better than other third
>parties that already have newsgroups (though most of its
>candidates were running for local seats).

I say make it alt.politics.usa.green-party, alt.politics.usa.greens
or something like that.

>=+= There are Green Parties in other countries as well,
>and I would very much like for the proposed newsgroup to
>be a forum for an international exchange of information.

For this, it should be something like alt.politics.green-groups or
alt.politics.green-parties.

//Jyrki
Newsgroups: alt.config,talk.bizarre,alt.slack,alt.net.personalities,alt.fan.biff,alt.geek,alt.1d,alt.fan.bruce-becker,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology,alt.flame
From: osa@wilbur.unh.edu (Bart Simps.. er.. Oktay Ahiska)
Subject: Cancelled articles... (WAS: HOWSABOUT A CRAIG SHERGOLD FAN GROUP???!!!)
X-Advertisement: Use Emacs
Comments: An elephant is a mouse drawn to government specifications
Organization: Springfield Elementary School
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:30:26 GMT
X-Posted-From: wilbur.unh.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu


Someone keeps cancelling this article.  Wouldn't it be easier just to
flame me? I don't even know why you are doing it (aside from the fact
that you are a butthead.)


Newsgroups: alt.config,talk.bizarre,alt.slack,alt.net.personalities,alt.fan.biff,alt.geek,alt.1d,alt.fan.bruce-becker,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: HOWSABOUT A CRAIG SHERGOLD FAN GROUP???!!!
X-Advertisement: Use Emacs
Comments: It's not the work that gets me down - it's the coffee breaks!
Distribution: world


HEY D00DZ!!! THIS IS A SERIOUS PROPOSAL!!! DUE TO THE ALARMING NUMBER
OF PEOPLE WHO POST "A CHILD"S LAST WISH -- SEND BUSINESS CARDS / POST
CARDS / EGG SHELLS TO CRAIG SHERGOLD" KINDA POSTS, I HAVE DETERMINED A
NEED FOR A GROUP CALLED ALT.FAN.CRAIG-SHERGOLD. IF YOU THINK SO TOO,
THEN COO!1, AND LETS HAVE A NEWSG^HFROUP CALLED
ALT>FAN>CRAIG>SHERGOLD< SHALL WE?

10,000 QUATLOOS TO THE FIRST PERSON TO GO AHEAD ANd CREATE THE FROUP
WHITOTUT WAITING FOR RESPONSES IN THE ALT>CONFIG NEWS GROUP. 

BRUCE BECKER EXCLUDED FROM THE CONTEST COZ SOME PEOPLE THINK HE"S
INSANE@!@!@!@!@

I'm not NOT BIFFSTRE!!!!111  by the WAY!!!!...

--
THE OPINIONZ EXPREXED ABOVE ARENT THOZ OF UNH!@!@!@ I MEAN NOT
NECESSARYLY. COOL, HUH????....

HUG ME!@!@!@!@
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Time to Decide on the Name (was Newsgroup For Personality Typing Systems)
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff & Nonsense Division
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:27:04 GMT

In article <18NOV199210085233@cl2.cl.uh.edu> SWEN1B1F@cl.uh.edu writes:

>In checking the newsgroup names, I notice that the groups starting
>alt.personal seem tightly focused on specific areas of human [or
>bestial] behavior.

alt.personal was not proposed as a name for this group.
Alt.personality was proposed, but that's quite a different kettle of
wax.

>Those with psych are in the sci. hierarchy, and
>that type exists nowhere else.

There's no reason why a psychology hierarchy couldn't be created.

>So I toss into the ring the following
>suggestions:
>
>alt.types
>alt.typing
>alt.typology
>alt.typophile
>alt.typical
>
>I doubt anyone would read more than one note in the new group and
>think it was dedicated to faces, feet size, fonts, body width, and
>kerning.

Probably not, but people looking for a group on Myers-Briggs are not
likely to look for a group named "alt.types."  They'll be looking for
a group relating to psychology, or personality.
alt.psychology.personality, for the study of personality types from a
psychological perspective, makes excellent sense.

alt.types is, frankly, a ludicrous suggestion.  Sitting next to
alt.bitterness, alt.atheism, alt.fax, and alt.drugs at the top level
of the alt hierarchy, it doesn't suggest anything about its content.

>In addition to a name, a charter carefully written to be inclusive,
>yet focused on type, typing, and typology of humans, other sentient
>being and their psyches would be important.

Not particularly.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: fsspr@acad3.alaska.edu (Sean P. Ryan, Hardcore Alaskan)
Subject: Re: Proposal: alt.tv.infomercials
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41.UAC
Reply-To: sean@freds.cojones.com
Organization: University of Fairbanks, Alaska...no wait, that's not right...
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 06:29:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.194651.25747@raven.alaska.edu>, mike@raven.alaska.edu (Mike Kienenberger) writes...
>In article <1e3o0nINNaeq@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> warlock@ecst.csuchico.edu (John Kennedy) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov12.161900.19250@raven.alaska.edu> Mike Kienenberger writes:
>>
>>-->  ...  If, after three days, there is a favorable response, I will be
>>-->  issuing newgroups for these groups.  If, after three days, there is
>>-->  no response, I will assume that there is no interest in these groups. ...
>>
>>  *A* favorable response?  (:  Sounds like another person to ignore because
>>they newgroup things on the drop of a hat, alt.* or not.

Apparently you missed the whole point of Mike's excercise;  the reason
he posted this was to make excuses and stall for time in the hopes
that I would go away and this group wouldn't come into place.  The
University of Alaska Computer Network (UACN), which has run the news
server for *.alaska.edu for the past ~18 months, has consistently
refused all requests from U of A students to put new newsgroups into
place, both in local newsgroups and in alt.*.  However, they have
honored every request made by staff/faculty/administrators, which has
led to tons of empty groups taking up space and serving no purpose.

>I never thought I'd hear the day when I was accused of spuriously
>creating new groups.

You have.  I've brought to your attention countless times all of the
aforementioned empty, useless local groups that were created on a whim
for administrative purposes.

>"Control freak" I've been called.  "Clueless" I've been called.
>Heck, Sean Ryan often uses the word "gestapo" when speaking about me.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Really?  When?  Prove it.

>But I've never been accused of creating news groups at the drop a hat.

Of course, this statement doesn't explain the existence of:

ua.admin.ir
ua.cslg
ua.modtest
ua.nwnet
ua.super.admin
ua.super.science
ua.super.selection
ua.sw.employee
uaf.class.ais.312
uaf.class.ais.412
uaf.strategic-planning
uas.general

All of which were created without any discussion that I was aware of,
and which combined sport a total active article count of approximately
zero.  Oh, I forgot that hypocrisy doesn't exist, and is simply a
figment of my imagination.

*********************************************************************
Sean Patrick Ryan, Hardcore Alaskan *** This account is expiring soon;
please direct all e-mail to sean@freds.cojones.com - thanks! *********
Oh, and did I ever tell you how much I want to fnord you?  :-) *******
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.discordia
From: mcspinks@unix.amherst.edu (Snarfblat)
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: Alt.Spam
Followup-To: alt.config,alt.discordia
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 22:06:09 GMT

holt_c@cubldr.colorado.edu (holt_c@cubldr.colorado.edu) wrote:
: In article <92321.145544IO20902@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, <IO20902@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
: > 
: > Spam, you can buy it, fry it, sling it, and Yes, even EAT it if you must.
: > Spam, the only savior with a list of ingredients! `
: > Spam, the one YOU can find in ANY grocery store, in ANY state and MANY nations!
: > Spam, TELLS you for CERTAIN when it goes bad!
: > Spam, something you can feed to your neighbors dog to make him or her smell bad
: > 
: > - - - If Sh*t doesn't happen, SPAM will. - - -
: 
: I once had blackened SPAM, seriously.  It tasted OK but I couldn't eat very
: much, it was NOT a religious thing I was just hungry.  Just thought I'd let 
: you know.
: 							Sincerely,
: 							Lieutenant Wilkes

I have a woodburning stove in my basement. Once at a party, we built a small
temple above it and used a small pulley to sacrifice objects to the fire gods.
after a hot dog which was an effigy of a not-so-friendly friend of ours and a
G.I. Joe figure (I think it was Hawk), we sacrificed Spam. then we ate it.
I have never tasted anything as finger sucking delicious as spam cooked over an
open fire.















Newsgroups: alt.config
From: kgdykes@thinkage.on.ca (Ken Dykes)
Subject: Re: Proposal : alt.tv.liquid-tv (Liquid Television)
Keywords: mtv, liquid, animation, what?
Organization: Thinkage Ltd.
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 22:39:09 GMT

In article <By1ryz.7tD@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>I'm not aware of how well MTV propagates outside of the U.S., but if
>it doesn't reach many places outside of our shores, I would suggest
>us.tv.liquid-tv, if not simply us.tv.mtv.
>
>The group sounds as if it would be better served by a mailing list in
>any case.
>

a canadian network carries liq-tv. i am sure mtv/hbo and other cable networks
(including our own) market their stuff to as many appropriate external
networks as they can. i have seen many productions of foreign networks
on canadian media. or is canada unique in regards to imported kultcha?

and U.S. networks may be picked up worldwide directly off satellite feeds.

when i was in korea, i was watching much american stuff (mtv, cnn) in my hotel.
american forces channels also dedicate many hours to various segments
of popular programming that the "troops" would miss while on station.
american forces channels are often accessible to ANY of the locals.

i like liquid television myself. quite fun.

we also get ren&stimpy. perhaps you should worry about your cultural exports
and what foreigners may think of your society :-) :-)
   -ken

-- 
   - Ken Dykes, Thinkage Ltd., Kitchener, Ontario, Canada    [43.47N 80.52W]
         kgdykes@thinkage.on.ca   postmaster@thinkage.com   thinkage!kgdykes
         harley-request@thinkage.on.ca             kgdykes@math.uwaterloo.ca
Xref: sparky alt.config:7227 rec.music.classical:16677
From: pashley@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Montykins)
Newsgroups: alt.config,rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Proposal: alt.fan.callas
Date: 23 Nov 92 08:26:46 GMT
Followup-To: alt.config
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <JOHNSON.92Nov22220138@physics.berkeley.edu>, johnson@physics.berkeley.edu writes:
>I am proposing the group alt.fan.callas to discuss the life and music
>of the late opera diva Maria Callas.  
>

You might get deluged with fans of Charlie Callas. How about
alt.fan.maria-callas?

 -Paul "Monty" Ashley
   (Okay, I admit it's not _likely_, but it's _possible_ . . .)
-- 
All just the opinions of pashley@sdcc13.ucsd.edu.
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: bedford@asterix.gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Darryl Bedford)
Subject: alt.tv.snl (was Re: alt.saturday.night.live)
Reply-To: bedford@asterix.gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Darryl Bedford)
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:17:26 GMT


Can someone please send out the newgroup for
alt.tv.snl?  I tried but there seems to be something
wrong down here on this site.

Has to be alt.*  
We won't get to see us.* newsgroups here.

Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.rush-limbaugh
From: TKOZMA@cms.cc.wayne.edu
Subject: Re: Expansion of alt.fan.rush-limbaugh proposed
Organization: Wayne State University, C&IT
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:47:58 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.180352.23544@ryn.mro4.dec.com>
shapiro@cfsctc.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro) writes:
 
>For example, when John posts the transcript, there are quite a few responses to
In the interest of accurate terminology, I'd like to point out that what
John posts are not transcripts but, in fact, summaries (as John himself
correctly notes in the subject line of his posts).  A transcript is a
word-for-word recreation; a summary is a paraphrase.  I've noticed this
mistake made quite a few times in this newsgroup.  It may seem a small
matter but, believe me, for anyone who has ever transcribed or summarized
a tape, there is a huge difference.  The larger issue, though, is why
anyone would actually devote the time and effort to summarizing over 15
hours of radio broadcasts every week.
From: tjw@vms.cis.pitt.edu (TJ Wood)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: Expansion of alt.fan.rush-limbaugh proposed
Date: 18 Nov 92 00:27:30 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <BxvtBB.I68@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, ksdavis@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Karleenus Schwartz Davis) writes:

> mike@raven.alaska.edu (Mike Kienenberger) writes:
>>This attitude really irks me.  Groups *are* rmgroup'able in alt.  

> And they get newgrouped the next day.  Groups that move never die --
> people still read alt.mud.  It doesn't matter if *you* honor rmgroups;
> you're only one site and it doesn't stop traffic from being split.

And that's fine.  If people want to read it at their site, they should.
It makes no difference to me what people want to do at their sites.  I do
appreciate the "rmgroup" message when a group moves to "rec" or "soc" or
whatever, because I alias the old group.  It makes it easier for my customers
to find the discussion.

Terry
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: mdw@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Re: alt.tv.snl (was Re: alt.saturday.night.live)
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 23:35:29 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.222226.2459@daimi.aau.dk> rorschak@daimi.aau.dk (Jesper Lauridsen) writes:
>Any reason to make the group worldwide?

Sure. For people with satellite dishes. :)

mdw
-- 
Matt Welsh    mdw@tc.cornell.edu        +1 607 253 2737
Systems Programmer, Cornell Theory Center
  "We're going away now. I fed the cat."
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.activism.d,talk.environment
From: dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska)
Subject: Re: CFD: alt.politics.green-party
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder CO
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:21:14 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.140241.7847@aisb.ed.ac.uk> jamesh@aisb.ed.ac.uk (James Hammerton) writes:
>In article <Bxu2vE.4EA@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>>
>>In light of this, I think all of the comments above are extremely
>>bogus.
>
>Actually you do have a point here, the label 'Green' is now being
>very widely misused( I was speaking of what it meant before the fuss
>about ozone layer and greenhouse effect came to light and what Greens
>mean by the word Green). Maybe alt.politics.ecology? though I am now
>not against alt.politics.green-party due to that being closer to 'Green
>Politics' than the current usage of the label.My preference is towards
>the more general label of alt.politics.ecology though.
>
>
>James

I would certainly like to see a group which focuses on _G_reen, which 
means the parties or movements.  How is alt.political.ecology
different from talk.environment?
-- 

		dingo in boulder	(dean@vexcel.com)
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.rush-limbaugh
From: forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu (Eric Forbis)
Subject: Re: Expansion of alt.fan.rush-limbaugh proposed
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:34:25 GMT

In article <1992Nov14.161601.7874@anomaly.sbs.risc.net> kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan) writes:
>
>Hence, if there are no objections voiced within the next few days, I will
>create the following groups:
>
>alt.fan.rush-limbaugh.politics - (Unmoderated) Arguments over the politics
>				 expressed by Rush and other dittoheads
>alt.fan.rush-limbaugh.transcripts - (Moderated) For posting of transcripts
>				     prepared by John Switzer(sic?)
>alt.fan.rush-limbaugh.tv-show - (Unmoderated) Discussions regarding Rush's
>				television show

I suspect that the vast majority of your traffic will be on a.f.r-l.
politics, and you'll continue to have the same problem. It would be nice if 
you could split it into "politics" and "long-haired-maggot-infested-feminazi-
environmentalist- wacko's", or some such scheme. 

Good luck,
---------

Eric Forbis      forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu
From: rorschak@daimi.aau.dk (Jesper Lauridsen)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: alt.tv.snl (was Re: alt.saturday.night.live)
Date: 17 Nov 92 22:22:26 GMT
Organization: Danish Trainspotter Society

Any reason to make the group worldwide?
-- 
I have things to do and News to read
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: rmgroup alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff & Nonsense Division
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:13:28 GMT

In article <nc#@byu.edu> gritton@byu.edu writes:

>jp@tygra.Michigan.COM (Mr. Friendly) writes:
>
>> Fuck you - I'm working on a Becker-Be-Gone script which will rmgroup
>> any addgroup that he sends.
>
>Now *that* sounds useful. Maybe you two can arrange a feed between
>yourselves so we won't have to wait too many minutes between
>newgroup/rmgroup messages.

Feed, nothing.  How about creating a distribution for them?  I'd love
nothing more than to arrange to have "news.amherst.edu: !john-n-bruce"
placed in my feed site's sys file.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: LIPSCOJA@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu (Andy Lipscomb)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: Alt.Spam
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:16:46 GMT
Organization: Vanderbilt University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.21

> What we desire is a place to sling our holy Spam in A Place All It's Own(tm)
> Dammit, I Spam therefore I AM..

Why don't you guys just bug your admins to pick up alt.spam.tin?
The last thing the Spam community needs is to be fragmented...


Andy Lipscomb
lipscoja@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu (Bitnet: lipscoja@vuctrvax)
Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian.
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.radio.pirate,alt.radio.scanner
From: kherron@ms.uky.edu (Kenneth Herron)
Subject: Re: CFD: alt.radio.sw
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 02:48:06 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:

>In article <rich.722300862@pencil> rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu (Rich Winkel) writes:

>>Any interest out there in a group devoted to shortwave?
>>We don't get the rec.* hierarchy here, so no rec.radio.shortwave.

>Ask your system managers to grab rec.*, or at least
>rec.radio.shortwave.  If you can find a willing system manager, you
>can also have rec.radio.shortwave forwarded to you in e-mail.

I agree. Most sites are more likely to carry rec than alt, so you'd
definitely be in the minority.  Which leaves the question "who *else*
would use an alt shortwave group, when there's a rec group?"
-- 
Kenneth Herron                                              kherron@ms.uky.edu
University of Kentucky                                         +1 606 257 2975
Dept. of Mathematics     "Your ball goes over them, it sails off the edge into
a huge cauldren of fire-breathing dragons."  "And they call this a par three?"