From: jhhardy@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (J. Hardy)
Subject: Re: The overpopulation problem. NOT!
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:28:42 GMT

In <1992Nov20.122731.1@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu> cvakgaaq@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu writes:


>	Situational ethics consist of introducing a contradiction then asking
>the challenged to resolve the unresolvable. It's illogical.

So who said anything about situational ethics (not to mention your incredibly
innacurate charicature of it)?
	
>	I disagree that anyplace is a lifeboat-situation.

Not even a lifeboat?  Sweeping generalizations are not a replacement for
thought.

>The Earth is hardly
>crowded. If 4 billion people can exist at subsistence conditions in
>collectivist countries, then perhaps 30 billion could be comfortable in
>Capitalist, free nations in their place.

Shouldn't this be in rec.politics.imperialism?

>	The Backcountry is hardly crowded. Go up into the Sierra now if you
>want solitude or visit some of the North Faces. Nevada is empty as is
>Washington state. Canada is a practical vacuum. Siberia is as empty as any
>place can be. But, then, maybe the emptiness you seek is to be found somewhere
>else..

Obviously the voice of a man who's never been to any of these places recently.
Or whose idea of solitude includes going to the mall by himself.  

I'll speak
directly to the issue of Washington state.  I spent a fair bit of last summer
wandering around the backcountry of western washington.  Its incredibly rare
to be able to go an entire day without seeing another person.  And I can't
recall the last time I spent a day without seeing any *trace* of humans.  It
generally requires extra planning to stand any chance at all of not running
into other ppl in the backcountry of Wahington.  As a teenager growing up there
I used to be able to easily find place where nobody else was.

I used to (5 yrs ago) frequent a lake in the cascades where it was uncommon
to see more than one group at a time.  Now there are generally two or three
cars at the trail head on weekdays, and by the weekend... well if you dont
get there early you have to walk past about a dozen cars on your way from where
you finally found a wide pace in the road to park.  Of course if you do get 
there early you find yourself quickly overrun.  Needless to say I've stopped
going there.  Last time I was there thus undergrowth was trampled, mud trails
ran across the meadows, the trees had hatchet and rope scars, and of course -
trash everywhere.   Damn shame - it used to be close to pristine.  Its still
pretty if you dont look too close.  Keep your attention on the mountain
that rises out of the lake, and try to ignore all the ppl on the shore.

The olympic penninsula is a bit better.  Unfortunately the beach is overrun.
Still beautiful of course - just don't count on solitude, and arrive early
early at your intended camp so that its the next poor sucker who was nowhere
to put his tent, instead of you.  A trip to the penninula used to guarantee
at least one sighting of a black bear.  I didnt see any last summer, despite
two weeks of hiking.

>	-Austin Moseley

You're lucky Austin.  I think most ppl (tho perhaps not on this group) would
agree with you.  Most folk in Seattle certainly do.  All so impressed with
living that close to 'nature' that they don't notice that theyre standing
on a trillium.  I doubt I could ever adequately express just how much
such ppl disgust me - how much I loathe them.  But there are certainly
more of your opinion than mine, so it will probably be me that dies and
rots in hell, instead of you.  At least, with a little luck, there'll be
a little more elbow room there than there is here.

regards

jim hardy
jhhardy@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry