From: davidh@cascade.ens.tek.com (David Hatcher)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Top 10 Reasons for Believing in the Deity of Jesus Christ.
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:29:10 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1992Apr14.023152.6429@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>In article <22812@zephyr.ens.tek.com> davidh@cascade.ens.tek.com (David Hatcher) writes:
>The second may be more spiritual in nature, but the first is more factual.  

  Is that why there are over 2000 different Christian sects, each of which
is following a different, but what to them is a factual image of that they 
see in Holy Scripture?

>If
>Jesus really _was_ resurrected, and if he really _does_ want you to have
>"belief" as Christians describe, it doesn't _matter_ that you decide to
>"internally experience" since that isn't going to get you into heaven, any more
>than "experiencing" a fire as nonburning is going to leave you unburned.

  If one can not internally experience Christ, than I would claim that
they do not *really* know Jesus Christ, and that they have not *really*
invited Jesus Christ into their hearts, and because of that, they can not
*really* know God through Jesus Christ. As a result, they will never
be saved because they will never come to a place where their soul and heart
is so open to God, that through God, they will be able to do things like
forgive all who have sinned against them. (Math 6:14-15). 

  There's a state of being here that I feel Christ was talking about
that is *way* beyond the simple state of "belief" that you seem to be
pointing towards. It's a state where one is so totally open that they 
can and do worship in spirit and truth. They shine with the Divine
because they are filled with the Divine from the inside out. 

  A focus upon mental perceptions and beliefs *only*, by their very 
nature, just can not open one's soul towards the Divine in this way. 
It's spiritually impossible.

>By the way, here's an interesting idea: Imagine some powerful being, not Jesus,
>looking around to see what mischief he can cause.  He sees someone sitting,
>trying to "experience" God.  Now, this person is not experiencing God.
>However, our powerful being is pretty smart.  In fact, smart enough that he
>can figure out exactly what parts of the brain to stimulate to make his subject
>_think_ he's experiencing God.  He then takes his spiritual needle and pokes
>the poor guy in the "God experiencing" areas of the brain.
>
>Now, how could you tell this from a _real_ experience of God?

  The more spiritual aspects of the various spiritual traditions, including
Christianity, offer guides for reasons like this. Also, the very tapestry 
behind the landscape of the spiritual path is full of periods where
one has to stop and search inward in order to question ones perceptions.
It's a very important thing to be doing within ones spiritual journey
as one grows ever closer to the Divine. Also, spiritual practices
are often offered by the guide, or director, in order to open ones
soul to the awareness of the Divine and/or to fine tune those awareness.
Being able to talk over those experiences with other people who have
also passed through the path is helpfull in helping one discern on
whether they are on track or not. It's an on going, step by step process 
that can and often does go on for a persons whole life time.




	Ecstatic Love is an ocean, and the Milky Way
	is a flake of foam floating on it.
					Rumi

	David Hatcher