From: kellmeye@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (kellmeyer steven l)
Subject: Re: Lifestyle Choices and Secular Reasoning
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 14:39:33 GMT

harp@netcom.com (Gregory O. Harp) writes:

>kellmeye@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (kellmeyer steven l) writes:

>>harp@netcom.com (Gregory O. Harp) writes:

>>>Your statement never stood.  You're trying to blame atheism for the
>>>fall of the USSR.  The Jews, Christians, and Muslims who live/lived
>>>there would be surprised.

>>Greg, I pointed out two nations, noted a characteristic of each, and noted
>>that one exists while the other one does not.  I laid no blame anywhere.

>Specifically, you said:
>   And it was designed in a country founded upon a belief in God.  The 
>   country founded upon atheism and a belief in man no longer exists.

>Your connection of the two facts implies a placing of the blame on
>atheism for the downfall of the USSR.  If you intend to sidestep and
>deny this after-the-fact, then you're definitely politician material.
>Then again, you've made several statments that didn't actually say
>anything, so perhaps this case isn't so unique.

The rooster crowed.  The sun came up.  I guess you think I imply that
the rooster's crowing caused the sun to rise?  I can't help the fact that
your logic is faulty.  I admit, I relied on it, to be truthful.  I've
been deliberately baiting you to see how long it would take you to catch
on.  :)

>>I certainly have no quarrel with your interpretation that atheism was
>>to blame, but you might want to provide a more thorough study of 
>>precisely why atheism brought about the downfall of the USSR, if you
>>wish to get published with that thesis.

>I in _no_ way implied this.  In fact, atheism had nothing to do with
>the downfall of the USSR.  If it had, the U.S. would have gone first.

So, I take it you're a Unitarian?  :)

>>>Check it out for yourself.  And please, feel free to post proof
>>>positive that these two men were Christians.  I don't think you have
>>>it, not do I think you can produce it.

>>I did not say they were Christians, Greg.  One can believe in a Supreme
>>Being and be a Founding Father without being Christian.  Many were.

>That still doesn't prove that the country was founded on a "belief in
>God".  The values, views, and opinions of the founding fathers who
>believed in a "Supreme Being" conflicted quite a bit.  There were very
>few common religious opinions among them.

>You still haven't provided any evidence here.  Let's see some examples
>of uniquely Judeo-Christian values that form the foundation of this
>country.  You're going to have a hard time finding them, I assure you.

I have no idea why you insist that I prove something I did not assert.

>-- 
>-----------------Greg-Harp----------------harp@netcom.com------------------
>  "I think I've reached that point / Where every word that you write /
>  Of every blood dark sea / And every soul black night / And every dream
>  you dream me in / And every perfect free from sin / And burning eyes /
>  And hearts on fire / Are just the same old song" -- The Cure

Steve Kellmeyer
-- 

Steve Kellmeyer 
kellmeye@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
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