HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cb401@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (William Scott Carlson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Btech...Kael says hello. Vehicles?
Date: 2 Jan 1993 05:43:13 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cb401@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (William Scott Carlson)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, clarka@netcom.com (Andrew Clark) says:

>>My idea: during the initiative phase, each side involved rolls initiative
>>for each individual unit, with vehicles suffering a -2 penalty. This can be
>>simplified in large scale battles, with mixed units suffering a -2 penalty.
>
>Why should vehicles get a -2 initiative penalty?  It doesn't solve the
>problem and adds an additional element of confusion to the game. 
>
>Imposing a -2 penalty on the SIDE that uses vehicles -- now that's
>disgusting.  No one would use vehicles if this rule were adopted.  
>Vehicles are there to support 'Mechs, not put them at a disadvantage!
>
>(Besides, what kind of psuedo-realistic "explanation" would account for 
>it?  Let's see, the presence of friendly vehicles taxes the fire-control
>and piloting systems because you don't want to shoot your own hovercraft,
>or step on them . . . or, the MechWarrior's Union doesn't like vehicles
>and encourages Mechwarriors to "fumble" if friendly vehicles are in the
>same battle.  Yeah, right.) 

I think you are missing the point. FASA wants vechiles to move first
PERIOD. That is simply too heavy handed for most of us who realize
vehicles have their place. The whole idea of Mechs becomes kinda stupid
when you realize vehicles are much cheaper to construct and maintain,
unless you find some way to simulate the Mechs added agility. Hence the
initiative penalty to vehicles. Makes much more sense then FASA's fix
without totally undermining the value of vehicles.
>
>>The argument that hovercraft and VTOLs are too dangerous because of backshots
>>is ludicrous. If the mech user has light mechs, he/she can avoid the hovers
>>and VTOLs!
>
>I agree to some extent.  I feel that well-designed 'Mechs using good
>tactics can prevent backshots from being effective.  On the other hand,
>I also believe that small hovercraft are too fast and that this can be
>corrected without wrecking the entire set of vehicle rules, which seems to
>be the current FASA plan.

I always thought the weakness behind vehicles was "stayability". Crits
come easier and Mechs remain function longer than comperably damaged
vehicles. The best defense against backshooting VTOLs....UNIT TACTICS!

"Cover my back dude!"



FIRST POST! Hiya all!

Uhm, could we cut down on the amount of requoted material, espically
Mech Designs? I hate paging through all that again and again and
again....
 


-- 
William Scott Carlson             cb401@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
Battle Tech Player, Paintballer, and Honorable Gentleman.
Alias Kael at bbs.isca.uiowa.edu...come on in and visit.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (RedSwordTarga)
Subject: Re: On the thread of realistic 'mech weapons... (sorta)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 00:47:10 GMT

Jesse.Taylor@launchpad.unc.edu (Jesse Taylor) writes:

>Wire-Guided Short Range Missiles (WGSRMs)

Seems like way too much trouble to try to simulate something that could
be done in the 1960's rather easily..the components wouldn't have to weigh
anywhere near that much anyway. Btech isn't realistic, and trying to
force it to be so by introducing wire guided missles on vehicles powered
by mini-fusion reactors (which we probably won't be able to do for a LONG
time yet) kind of seems silly. Sort of like mounting a catapult on an M-1.

Axly

********************************************************************************
*   Axly      *  "Is Axly tough? Yes. Talented? Yes. Brave? Oh, certainly.     *
* Red Sword   *   He is also erratic, irresponsible, accident-prone, and a     *
*   Targa     *   constant threat to public safety. The trick is to keep him   *
*             *   pointed in the right direction. "                            *
*             *         -Niki                                                  *
********************************************************************************
From: taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Second Genyosha)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Which weapon is best? (Was: Re: btech lrm)
Date: 22 Dec 1992 22:08:25 GMT
Organization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz
Reply-To: taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

In article <BzMw60.Lt4@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (RedSwordTarga) writes:
>taia_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Second Genyosha) writes:
>> For best energy, the old medium laser for old tek (3025).
>>  The choice of all munchkins in the Universe. The obvious Clan energy would
>>be the Medium Pulse Laser.

>Really? I think the ER Medium is a lot better. You basically get a 3025 
>Large Laser that does one less point of damage and 3 less heat for 1 ton.
>Axly

 The reasons for this is the following:
1. -2 to hit
2. The ranges of 1-4/5-8/9-12 are not bad, and the extra 15 hex max range
for the ER Medium laser isn't that great in comparison.

 While the extra tonnage is not good, the -2 more than compensates for the
disavantage. A friend of mine designed a real munchkin mek based on medium
pulse lasers and targeting computer to emphasis(sp) this point.
 Using ER Medium Lasers you run out of HSs and after a while, the tonnage
saving doesn't mean that much.

 The ER Medium laser is the Clan version of the IS Large Laser, but it will
always play second fiddle to the "Pulse" weapons IMHO. It's usefulness
comes when the tonnage available is limited. I like the Dasher-D as it is a
nasty mek with lots of firepower and a targeting computer.
 But I think it would be better served if the mek had MPLs, in this case
2 MPL and 1 ER ML, if not 3 MPL. More accurate and delivers 21 points of 
damage and that means a piloting roll........:)

BTW did anyone notice that the Clan ER Large Laser didn't improve
significantly. The Clan ER PPC went up to 15 Damage from 10 Damage from the
Star League ER PPC. Equalling the heat output of the ER PPC for damage, but
with the ER Large Laser, the damage only went up to 10 and the heat remained
at 12, why? Imagine if the ER Large Laser (Clan) had equal heat and damage.
12 heat and 12 damage! Exactly what you need for a heat shot! Talk about
efficient, an energy weapon that destroys heads with no waste. Glad to see
that FA$A didn't do this one :)

This has been...            : "I have never listened to anyone who criticized
 Tony Taia                  :my taste in space travel, sideshows or gorillas.
  TAIA_A@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz :When this occurs, I pack up my dinosaurs and leave
My ideas are mine only, ok? :leave the room." - Ray Bradbury 1980. Age 60.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: willday@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (The Eye of Fatima)
Subject: Re: MUSE - What's up with it??
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 21:51:46 GMT

In article <1hi64qINNl1q@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> jrob@ecst.csuchico.edu (Gillis the Humble) writes:
>OK.  Call me stupid, but I just need to know.  Is the btech MUSE down 
>or moved?
>I have been gone for a week, I came back and now it says no route to 
>host.(or something.)  Please post or E-mail your response.  Thanks
>							
>Private Cable - 4th Davion Guards

I've been trying it religiously now everyday since my school got
out for the holidays...  It's not that the game is down, but the whole 
machine on which the game is run is down - absent from the net, no 
telnet, ftp, ping, or anything.  I'd wager that they either turned
the machine off for the holidays, or it crashed and the admin person 
responsible for it hasn't been in to fix it. 
   I was on last saturday, and they made no mention of it going to
be down or anything planned, and then the next day on Sunday it
wasn't responding at all.
	 It really sucks that I can't get on now, over the break, when I
actually have TIME for this....:((  I just wish someone in the know 
would let us in on it, so I don't have to waste my time trying it 
everyday and wondering. :-O

will

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
|\\\\              /////\\ "The irony of the   ||      _   ___        |
|    William A. Day      \\  universe has not  ||    ___\   | angerine|
|willday@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu.\\  escaped me."     ||   \\|_|o   __       |
|wad41076@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu.\\  _BattleTech:    ||  /_\  \/   |_)ream  |
|   ^--@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu.\\   Blood Legacy_ || /                   |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
From: logerius@psykoman.cs.hut.fi (Lord Logerius of Angmar)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: What is the telnet for BTECH MUSE? & Muse down??
Date: 21 Dec 1992 21:57:02 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, CS lab
Distribution: inet
NNTP-Posting-Host: psykoman.cs.hut.fi

In <1gj2kgINNnks@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> saruman@cats.ucsc.edu (Nicholas Patrick Popoff) writes:
>In article <1992Dec13.095322.28355@tdb.uu.se> m91kgh@tdb.uu.se (Karl-Gunnar Hultland) writes:
>>DoDGeR (dodger@rajeesh.WPI.EDU) wrote:

>>: okay my friends... if you see anybody head hunting like this please tell
>>: a director or god...IT IS ILLEGAL!!!...and grounds for courtmartial...
>>: if you wish to help a newbie, just don't tell them your house and unit 
>>: until they tell you what they want to be...then try to hook them up with
>>: someone of the approiate house...otherwise you might be expelled..
>>: SCaT!!!
>>
>	Scat, I dont know what youve been listening to, because I have
>never heard such a proclimation.   What IS illegal is hounding newbies
>and standing around in the entrance area in order to get a better location
>to do that.  In no way is it wrong to tell somebody your house and
>unit.  Id like to know where you heard this.....

>(This is also why what he said isnt in the rules)


 Well when I logged first time,I had my share of recruiters and I actually 
found it really amusing to listening their assuarances (no impossible
promises for me) and 'fights' among themselves ("No,no really guys I 
wouldn't page.. no" .. then paged "ever heard of this house.." ;)
  
   But then again I had a pretty clear picture which house I want to
join.And that would be my advice to newbies,that you should have
some sort of picture which house you would like most..,but if you
have no know|ege of BTECH (Not many of those here..)
..well, I just wish you luck :) ,I bet you'll find a house.


  BTW  What has happened to Muse??? the site seems to be down...
what happened? somebody just threw the off switch for the
holidays ? Or am I just hallucinating...



>	The Tick, C.O. 2nd Royal Guards - Steiner

Teclis of Rasalhague regulars

--
                                                                       
   Patrick Buchert                      Helsinki University of Technology
    pbuchert@hut.fi                      Dept. of Mechanical Engineering
     logerius@hut.fi
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: kgnome@cs.concordia.ca (MATIS stephane)
Subject: Re: BIG Naval Ships... Why not!?
Keywords: engines 
Organization: Computer Science, Concordia University, Montreal, Quebec
Distribution: world 
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 06:00:13 GMT

From: kgnome@cs.concordia.ca (MATIS stephane)
>    \/\/here BattleSpace comes in is that it WILL have rules to design
> space naval ships.  This, hopefully, will provide the rules for the
> larger engine sizes needed for large ocean naval vessels.  I haven't
> seen any indication that FASA has thought of this, as well, so there
> probably won't be anything mentioned in BattleSpace about ocean naval
> vessels.  Wouldn't it be funny to see the looks on people's faces,
> though, if when they opened up BattleSpace they found rules for ocean
> naval vessels, as well?  ("I knew this game was about warship combat,
> but I didn't know it included THOSE kinds of warships!" :)
>
>    |\|o shipping date has been announced for BattleSpace, yet.
>

	Hello folks! I guess you've met Gene ... my psychotic pal :-)

	Anyways ... the way I understand it.., Chris Hartford, the
congenial Brit who designed BattleSpace, has said to me even back at
GenCon92 that there WILL be construction rules. BTW, don't expect the
old designs to fit! :) :)

	So Gene... "Ol' Buddy, ol' pal", you can have my test copy, once
I receive it and have made some photocpies :-) Jan 10th or so. 

	It should be near ready. Also, those rules with Vehicels... well
, they still need "playtest" aprooval. You might have only Mechforce
turnaments using it ... but I sorta doubt that. :| 

	Note folks.... Gene doesn't have this neat .sig!

+---------------------------------+   ___     ___       ___
| Stephane I. Matis               |  /   \_BATLLETECH  /\__\ Viva NeXT! 
| E-Mail : kgnome@cs.concordia.ca |  \___/   \___/     \/__/ NeXTSTEP 3.0!
| "It Just Works..." - Steve Jobs |      \___/   
+---------------------------------+       Wolfnet Operative & NeXThead 
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: malloy@crash.cts.com (Sean Malloy)
Subject: Re: Machine Guns in BTECH
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 20 Dec 92 21:54:48 PST

In article <1h2oplEINN77k@uni-erlangen.de> kabreuer@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Klaus Breuer) writes:
>>Vulcan cannon is a 20mm gun and is common to fighter aircraft and
>>anti-missile systems (can you say Ageis?). The closest Battletech
>No, but I can _spell_ Aegis :)

Not to mention that the Aegis system has absolutely _no_ cannon systems of
any kind in it; the Aegis system is an interconnected radar/missile/battle
management system, currently consisting of (for the Ticonderoga-class
cruisers) the SPY-1D phased array radar, the SM2MR missile system, and a
small flock of computer systems.

The Phalanx CIWS (Close-In Weapons System) consists of a standalone weapons
mount with a 30mm cannon, controlled by an integral radar on top of the
mount; if it required the Aegis system to function, then the Navy's thrown
away the millions of dollars it's spent installing them on _all_ their
combatant vessels.

The Vulcan cannon is a 20mm Gatling autocannon originally developed for use
as an aircraft cannon; it acquired the Vulcan designation when the weapon
was modified for ground anti-air use, being mounted on a towed trailer and
later on a heavily-modified tracked vehicle chassis. The weapon was a
companion to the Chaparral system, a four-rail missile launcher firing
AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles, which was also mounted on trailers and modified
tracked vehicles. The Vulcan system suffered from inadequate fire support
aids, rendering its effectiveness almost entirely dependent on the skill of
the operator.


-- 
random sig #11:
 Sean Malloy        Navy Personnel R&D Center | Anything you say will be
                    San Diego, CA 92152-6800  | recorded, edited, distorted,
 malloy@nprdc.navy.mil        < different     | re-mixed, and used against you.
 crash!malloy@nosc.navy.mil   < systems       |
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: A few questions...
From: parnell_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Pi-Rat)
Date: 23 Dec 1992 23:56:41 GMT
Reply-To: parnell_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz

'lo I was playing a game of 'Tech against Peter Hamilton(yes Peter who had 
the monster sig!) in wich I was using an Atlas and he was throwing as many 
20 tonners at me as it took to kill me ... ONE AT A TIME ... Anyway two 
interesting situations occured in the game...

N.B. The following situations occure if you say all dammage is done 
     simultaneously.	

	1)Being charged into a clif face _backwards_
	  e.g. He charged me front on with a Locust while I was standing 
	       in front of a level 3 hill (see the diagram)  
	     __		Where do I get moved to?
	  __/L3\__
	 /L2\__/L2\	Me= The Atlas
	 \__/Me\__/	He= The Locust
	 /L1\__/  \	L?= Level of the hill(no level number on L0)
	 \__/He\__/
	    \__/

	2) Multiple charges/Death From Aboves on the same mech...
	   e.g. A Locust and a Stinger of his double team my Atlas
		in one turn from two different directions...
		how do you work out what hapens and where all units end up?
		(see the next diagram)
	    __  
	 __/Lo\__	Me= The Atlas
	/  \__/  \	Lo= The Locust
	\__/Me\__/	St= The Stinger
	/St\__/  \
	\__/  \__/	The problem occures when his two units move into 
	   \__/		the hex I currently occupy... and also which hex
			I move to after all dammage is done.

and after all that Merry ______ and a Happy _______ 
(insert your holls where approate [B-)<-|  )
				  ^^^^^^^--all New Zealanders dont smile
						like Tony


Paul
	Ciao, May The Dice Be With You
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|       We gaurantee fast service, No matter how long it takes...             |
|                                  EMail:PARNELL_P@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz         |
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/
From: RiTz@eckert (Richard Taillon)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: BTECH: Help with making maps=
Date: 3 Jan 93 02:52:02 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]


nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu says >
> Well what you need is a color scanner and then a color laser 
> printer or a color printer of good enough quality.. You scan the 
> maps available, then using a editor which can be found afew places,
> commercial or otherwise and edit the maps the way you want.. It 
> owuld be nice if someone would write a graphic sprogram that would 
> allow for moving of terrain features on that map.. Might try to get
> some map programs from a SIMTEL20 site.. I kow the programs have a 
> code name, but I know some of the names of the programs after you 
> unzip them. like 520-??? is a core test program.. 
 
If a scanner is available, that is an interesting idea. Another one,
which takes even more time, is to prepare some random hex pattern,
draw terrain on it (like heavy wood combined with light wood), and then
position that on the big maps to change their configuration. But this
method sucks. Computers should facilitate (automate) this process.
I've already asked Klaus Breuer to upgrade his Map Maker program to be able
to print out maps. I dunno if it's on his agenda though.

I looked at Garbo's index and I did'nt see any mapmaker program. I'll try
to get SIMTEL20's index (how the hell can I go to the file directories
on SIMTEL20 ?! I only get a few help files about this and that, but _no_
subdirectory ! <help!>
 
RiTz
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: probe@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Prabal Nandy)
Subject: BTECH: Archive?
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 05:53:54 GMT

   Merry Christmas, Mechwarriors! I shall be out of this local star system
until the 11th for a quick jumpship leap to the local worlds of Daytonis
Ohiois Sector. 
   By the way, is anyone saving these new mechs that appear on this system
in an archive? They are pretty good and would be neat to have around, even
for just 'historical' purposes...

   Also, I have some quasi-battletech prose fiction for you all... The
stories are from 8-12 pages long, and are loosely set in the Post-clan
invasion IS Universe (circa 3050's)... Anyone want me to put them somewhere
or post them somewhere?


-- 
      /| ________________   |probe@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu|  Lord of the Flies 
O|===|* >________________>  |probe@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu|  1st MPC Division
      \|                    | nandy@scivax.stsci.edu |  Colony Mechworks
  Velox - Durus - Infestus  |  nandy@fos.stsci.edu   |  Colony World Myops
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (E. Kontei)
Subject: Re: Mekton II vs B'tech
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 19:46:04 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.002826.6029@ncsu.edu>, dctam@eos.ncsu.edu (DENVER CHUAN-HIN TAM) writes:
> 
> As the title suggests, I am looking for a BRIEF comparison of the games
> (I am already intimately familiar with B'tech).
> 
> I really want to know which is more playable, fun, flexible
> etc.

BATTLETECH is a combat system with an add-on RPG.

MEKTON is an RPG with an add-on combat system.

If you're a mecha gaming "grognard", I'd recommend BTECH for now.

If you like anime, and is the reason why you got into mecha games, then
I'd recommend MEKTON better.  Not only is the combat more "anime-like"
than BATTLETECH, but also you're not constrained by a fixed universe like
BTECH.  True, they do provide a universe of sorts, but the rules are
universe-independent, so you can create anything from GUNDAM to VOLTRON
to MACROSS to PATLABOR to GIANT ROBO.

P.S.  About that silly "Best Weapon" thread:  getting back to mecha,
I'd choose the Buster Machine 3 from GUNBUSTER.  Blow up a planet, or
a star system?  Naah, try leaving a big gaping hole where the Galactic
Core used to be...
-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			       Master of Science!
			      jester@ihlpm.att.com
		    Disclaimer: You're not dealing with AT&T
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
From: lunatic@netcom.com (Lunatic Johnathan Bruce E'Sex)
Subject: BTECH: XL Engines (Was: Re: MECH: Heavy Hammer)
Organization: Netcom; Renegade User
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 19:57:17 GMT

In article <1i10erINN62a@shelley.u.washington.edu> foregone@stein.u.washington.edu (Carl Chavez) writes:
>An IS mech with an
>XL is very vulnerable (according to my design theories) because a knocked out
>LT or RT will disable the mech, and torsos have less armor than legs. I'd
>rather have the mech go slower, since 3050 tech has made speed nearly worthless
>against Clans (lose speed and shoot more since they'll probably hit you if
>you're using mechs that don't jump at least 7 or run 10!).
 
 
    \/\/ell, an XL engine still frees up tremendous amounts of weight
 that can be used for more armour and weapons, too.  Sometimes the
 additional armour makes up for the added vulnerability.  It depends on
 what you're playing against.

-- 
   _______________________________________________________
  /         -= Lunatic Johnathan Bruce E'Sex     (:      /
 /  lunatic@netcom.com  GEnie: LUNATIC  CI$: 76170,672  /
/______________________________________________________/
From: silk@mcl.ucsb.edu (ken mencher)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: BTECH: Archive?
Date: 30 Dec 92 03:39:29 GMT

In <1992Dec23.191332.22146@samba.oit.unc.edu> Jesse.Taylor@launchpad.unc.edu (Jesse Taylor) writes:

>In article <1992Dec23.055354.21313@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> probe@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Prabal Nandy) writes:
>>   By the way, is anyone saving these new mechs that appear on this system
>>in an archive? They are pretty good and would be neat to have around, even
>>for just 'historical' purposes...
>	I'z thinking the same thing. Someone somewhere should archive
>these buggers. I've got a lot of them on my disk - but in seperate files.
>If someone wanted me to, I could categorize 'em and post 'em or stick 'em
>on an archive site somewhere. Actually, having a sort of "'mech catalog"
>postedat the end of each month with the 'mech designs that appeared that
>month might be kind of useful, now that I think of it...

that'd be great, esp. since i did miss a week of gundam-mekton mechs....

However, would this just be BTECH mechs??  some of us don't play BTECH,
and would like something a bit different...

silk


   ______
\ /      \     | silk@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu   |  Computers aren't intelligent:
 > DARWIN >    | silk@next.mcl.ucsb.edu  |  They only thin...
/ \______/     | silk@cs.ucsb.edu        |  ERROR 666 - OPERATOR FAILURE
    L  L       | (that's all...for now)  |  PLEASE REBOOT OPERATOR
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha