HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Subject: Re: dingy bottoms
Organization: New York University, School of Medicine
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 17:58:23 GMT

EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans) writes:
>1.  Drip detergent into the water just in front of the bow.  Based on
>my (recent) experiments in the bathtub, this might leave a film of detergent
>on the surface of the water long enough for the boat to sail over it and
>get some benifit.

	IYRU rule 63(a) says, "A yacht shall not eject or release from a
container any sustance (such as polymer), the purpose of which is, or could
be, to reduce the fircitional resistance of her surface by altering the
character of the flow of water inside the boundary layer.

	Rule 63(b) also prohibits "specially textured hull surfaces".  I'm
not 100% sure what they're getting at, but I suspect that what David Spencer
suggested, i.e. making the middle third of his bottom rough to induce
non-laminar flow, would be illegal.

From: cgr@otter.hpl.hp.com (Chris Romans)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 07:49:42 GMT
Subject: Re: Rigging Lasers and Bytes
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: rec.boats

In rec.boats, mike@mote.Berkeley.EDU (Mike Friedrich) writes:

> Our sailing club just got 2 Bytes, which are very similar to the Laser, but
> smaller and more maneuverable.  In either of these boats, what's the best
> way to rig it?  I do it by rigging the spars and sail, including the boom,
> on the dock and then pushing the whole thing into the hull.  Others first
> push the mast with sail into the hull, then connect the boom, but I find it
> difficult to tighten the outhaul with the sail whipping around in the wind.


I sail a laser and always put the mast in the boat first before
connecting the boom. When it's windy, force 5+, it's enough of a problem
just getting the mast in without having the sail and boom rigged adding
to the windage. As for tightening the outhaul, tie the outhaul to the
eye on the end of the boom, then feed it through the sail and then back
through the eye before leading it to the cleat which gives you extra
purchase, and you should have no problem tightening it. You may have a
problem feeding the outhaul through the sail if it's windy and the
sail's blowing around but just grab the sail and tuck it under your arm
while you connect the outhaul. 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: wwalker@qualcomm.com (Bill Walker)
Subject: Re: Info wanted on Cascade 36
Followup-To: rec.boats
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 23:01:12 GMT

In article <7259@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM>, alany@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Alan
Yelvington) wrote:
> 
> 
> :vi
> I am looking at a sailboat as a liveaboard.  I have taken a close look
> at the Cascade 36, and was impressed with the deck and cabin layout.
> 
> Can someone tell me about it's sea handling?  I'm never thrilled by a
> fin keel, but I'm reminding myself that it will primarily be my home, and
> then a blue water boat when I get restless.
> 
> I live on the Columbia River, but would like to feel comfortable going
> over the bar, off-shore, and possibly to AK via the inland passage.
> 
> You responses would be very appreciated.  I'm making the move to get
> equity in something instead of just paying rent, so this is a big financial
> move for me.  I can't afford a big mistake.
> :wq

In my view, buying a boat as a means of building equity would be a "big
mistake."  Buy a house.  They rarely depreciate, whereas boats almost
always depreciate.  As Mike Hughes, a former frequent poster, once posted
here,

"People waste time, effort and money on all kinds of things that don't make
sense when by owning a boat one can consolidate and waste them all on one
thing."
 
Source unknown.


----------
Bill Walker - WWalker@qualcomm.com - QUALCOMM, Inc., San Diego, CA
All opinions expressed are mine, and do not reflect those of my employer.
"First thing we do, we kill all the lawyers." - Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: peterhe@microsoft.com (Peter Henriksen)
Subject: Sailing bitmaps/pictures
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:27:58 GMT
Organization: Microsoft International Products Group
Summary: Anybody know of FTP sites? 
Keywords: graphics,picures,bitmaps

Does anybody know of one or more good FTP sites for sailing pictures (GIFs,
BMPs etc.)?  I seem to remember a post about it a while ago, mentioning
dell1.dell.com as a good site, but I can't find that host and my site nukes
old posts after a (short!) while...

Thanks in advance.
-- 
Peter Henriksen, Microsoft Int'l Products Group
uunet!microsoft!peterhe  peterhe@microsoft.uucp 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Subject: Re: Nav lights for a sailboat (WAS: Nav lights quiz)
Organization: New York University, School of Medicine
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:20:58 GMT

erck03@castle.ed.ac.uk (John Wexler) writes:
> The all-round red-over-green at the masttop is allowed for all sailing
> vessels of any length.

	What you are *not* allowed to do, however (which I often see)
is have both your deck-level bowlights and your top-of-the-mast red
and greens on at the same time.  Again, I think it's part of the "the
more lights the better" mentality lots of people seem to have.

> The nearest they get is the phrase "stand on vessel" (they also use "give
> way vessel").  "Right of way" seems to be a misleading phrase in this
> context.  I am wondering how the phrase got into use.  Was it used in
> older ColRegs?

	The terms "stand-on" and "give-way" are relatively new
(within the last 10 years or so).  Previously, you had "right of way"
and "burdened".  They got rid of those phrases because they can be
confusing.  I think the logic goes along the lines of this:

	In general, the boat that has the right of way is the one
that's less maneuverable.  Thus, the fishing trawler has right of way
over the freighter on the open seas because the trawler can't move
very well with all those nets hanging in the water.  But, think about
the word "burdened".  The fishing trawler could be thought of as
carrying a burden; those nets she's dragging through the water.  That
makes her the burdened boat, doesn't it?  No, the burdened boat is not
the one physically burdened, but the one burdened under the rules to
yield the right of way to the other.  Confusing, isn't it.  Or at
least it can be.  Hence the change of phrasiology.

	The IYRU rules still talk about right of way.

	Somebody on this group pointed out some time ago that the only
truly "stand on vessel" is a sailboard, but that's another story.
From: tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lauri Tarkkonen)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: What makes a boat a better pointer ??
Date: 13 Oct 92 13:30:13 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In <26280@oasys.dt.navy.mil> hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners) writes:

>In rec.boats, bobp@cherise.UUCP (Robert Parkinson) writes:
>>My Alberg 30 is faster on a close reach in some conditions, particularly
>>light air. My guess is that when she's a little more close-hauled she's
>>generating more wind by dint of movement, i.e. moving at 5 knots into
>>10 knots = 15 knots apparent. Also, heeling a moderate amount increases
>>my LWL.

>Many factors combine to determine a boat's fastest point of sail and
>it often is quite different for various wind and sea conditions.

>I'm certainly no expert, but the boat's own speed creating increased
>relative wind is not one of them.  

Here your opinion differs from teh opinion of amny experts.

>Such an effect will cause greater wind drag on the boat.  

Of course the drag will increase but the effect will be overcome
by the increased power of the higher apparent wind speed.

>An rare exception to this may be in instances where an extremely 
>flat sail may gain in overall performance with an increased relative 
>wind.

It will work even on spinnakers, you will have more power whenn
the apparent wind comes fore of beam than whenn it is after.

The effect works as long the boat can carry the sails and the
extra power.

>Waves--  Some boats excel in carrying their momentum on through a head
>sea and may find closer points are faster.  These boats will generally
>not be as good a performers in "surfing" conditions downwind.  Planing
>hulls--  A sailboard is an example of the advantage of planing hulls.
>For winds sufficient to permit planing, with its significantly lower
>drag vs speed, it is possible, once on a plane, to sustain much higher
>speeds off the wind as Kevin noted above.  High winds--  At wind speeds
>which begin to burden the boat's sail carrying ability, the boat's
>relative off-wind performance is enhanced.


The behavior of the hull in the water, say planing is another
guestion. This effect is elminated if we consider say ice yahcts.
(they always plane).

- Lauri Tarkkonen
From: bobc@hplsla.hp.com (Bob Cutler)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Help in choosing a VHF radio
Date: 13 Oct 92 01:54:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: hplsla.6140077
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA

I've just replace the Standard VHF radio that came with my boat with
a $150 Uniden.  The Standard seemed to be an OK radio, except for the fact
that it didn't transmit.  I replaced it with the cheapest radio that
I could find locally that had a good warranty.  The Uniden, with its
flat-rate repair fee, seemed to do the trick.

Besides the Uniden, and the dead Standard, I also own two mobile ham 
radios, a Kenwood (my favorite) and an Icom.  But since this is about
VHF marine, I'll restrict my comments to the Uniden.  

The Uniden seems to work very well.  The receiver is every bit as sensitive
as my other radios, and the transmitter hasn't given me any problems.
Frankly I don't think that a more expensive radio will perform that much
better.  The biggest problems that I have with it are the audio and the
display.  The audio is loud enough, but the fidelity is lousy.  I'd also
prefer that the speaker was mounted on the front.  As for the LED display, it 
seems to be more prone to washing out in bright light than with the other
radios I own.  I honestly don't miss the scanning functions or the up/down 
mike keys since the radio is mounted close to the helm.

Bob Cutler
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: finns@hal.nta.no (Finn Stafsnes FBA)
Subject: Re: Arctic Odyssey
Organization: Norwegian Telecom Research
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 09:35:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.162007.3260@wixer.cactus.org>, will@wixer.cactus.org (Bill Staniewicz) writes:
|> Last night the 'Discovery Channel' broadcast "Arctic
|> Odyessy" (an episode of 'Challenge').
|> This program featured the work of Ragnar Thorseth,
|> an explorer who sailed to the high Artic
|> to observe the activity of polar bears.
|> He used a 58' vessel for this purpose that had been
|> designed intially for _hunting_ polar bears. 
|> 
|> Did anyone else see this program and could identify
|> the designation or type of that vessel? They spent
|> alot of time in the program looking at polar bear stuff,
|> but didnt really get into the design or layout of the
|> vessel. Does anyone know about it? I think it was
|> manufactured or at least based out of Norway.
|> 
|> Thank you.
|> -- 
|> Bill
|> will@wixer.cactus.org
|> 

I have checked in the preface of Thorseths book from his trip round the 
world with the viking knarr Saga Siglar (a copy of a viking merchant ship 
with a single square sail on a single mast).
 
There he writes a few words about the vessel "Havella" which he and his 
family used when they spent the winter 1987 - 88 frozen into a fjord 
(Kongsfjord) in Svalbard. I believe this is the boat you are referring 
to from "Arctic Odyssey".

The boat is a traditional Norwegian type built by Sauviks Baatbyggeri 
(Sauviks Boatyard) in Risoer at the south-east coast in Norway. It was
built in 1952. The purpose for the boat was - according to Thorseth - to 
take guests to the islands in the northern arctic. To many of the guests, 
the possibility to hunt polar bears was important. Around 1970 the polar 
bear was protected so hunting became illegal.

I think Thorseth still has the boat "Havella".


 -Finn Stafsnes
From: daver@felix.filenet.com (Dave Richards)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Butane on Powerboats?
Date: 17 Oct 92 01:14:11 GMT
Reply-To: daver@fritz.filenet.com (Dave Richards)
Organization: Costa Mesa, CA

In article <7800118@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> wtm@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bill Mullaney) writes:
>This year I bought *two* single burner butane stoves to replace a double
>burner pressurized alcohol burner.  Reasons given below. 
>etc.

I go along with the butane stove, but my suggestion would be to run it on
Compressed Natural Gas (CNG).  That gives you the best of all worlds.  Being
lighter than air, natural gas is a heck of a lot safer than butane or pro-
pane.  And the butane/propane stove should work just fine with CNG, although
it may require a slight initial adjustment or something.

From what I've read in this group, plus my own experience, it seems that
just about everyone with an alcohol stove has had problems with it.

Dave
From: pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu (Greg Pavlov)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Wellcraft Fishing Boats
Keywords: fishing, recommendations
Date: 13 Oct 92 02:12:44 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

In article <1992Oct12.130646.4975@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, swist@doodly.mcc.dec.com (Jim Swist) writes:
> 
> I am familiar with Wellcraft ...... but they are not a name which comes to
> the tip of one's tongue in fishing boats. Does anyone have any experience/
> comments on the 236/250 Sportsman or Coastal series?
> 
> Also Powerboat Reports recent survey of Wellcraft owners cited poor
> resale value as a negative for the entire line.  This seems inconsistent
> with Wellcraft's supposed position as a maker of much better than
> average boats.  High end boats like Gradys and Whalers (in the fishing
> boat market) tend to have a pretty good resale value.
> 

  I have looked at a LOT of fishing boats these past two months.  I have seen
  apx. half a dozen used 250's in the process and have noticed that there are
  a substantial number of used ones always for sale in various publications
  such as Offshore and Soundings.  

  A couple of things:

  1. I would consider Wellcraft to build a decent boat - I've seen quite a 
     few of their cruisers/runabouts as well - but not "much better than 
     average" by any means.  Overall, I would rank them somewhere below Sea
     Ray but above Bayliner;

  2. maybe a minor point, but:  if you see a 250 on a trailer or on blocks,
     go to a point about halfway between the transom and the console and
     press in on the hull (from the outside of the boat).  Then do the same
     on a Grady White.  The former will flex, the latter won't;

  3. the 250 is supposed to be a "walkaround" fishing boat.  But the "walk-
     around" is rather skimpy, similar to old GWs.  The ratio of cockpit area
     to boat length seems to be smaller than on a GW, Sea Ox, etc and it is
     split into two levels on top of that.  It strikes me as being a cross
     between a fishing boat and a general family boat;

  4. in spite of the above, I think it is a reasonably good boat, particularly
     if you buy a used one (e.g., the cost).  All the ones that I have seen
     were in good shape. 


  greg pavlov,
  pavlov@fstrf.org
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: advax@reg.triumf.ca (A.Daviel)
Subject: Re: GPS
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: Happy
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 02:03:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.142119.7616@cs.brown.edu>, jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes) writes...
>In article <eBs0RB2w165w@gtm-inc.com> terry@gtm-inc.com (Terry Gerritsen) writes:
>>gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras) writes:
>>> keith@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Keith Hawkins) writes:
>>> >
>>> >Would you recommend GPS over Loran.
<etc.>
>By the way, there are two other things worth considering: If you are unaware 
>that you are sailing through magnetic disturbances, you have more troubles 
>than just that your LORAN is acting up. For example, if your LORAN dies, your
>*compass* will be acting up, which is a far more serious problem. The same is
>true for GPS. This suggests that the most important thing is to know something
>about the waters you're sailing in, and to maintain a good DR plot. 

If you have an electronic autopilot, the fluxgate compass in *that* will be
affected. I had a more than 30 degree course change when I sailed over
an undersea power cable. I'm guessing it was DC (reduces transmission losses),
and it was pretty shallow there so I was probably only a matter of 2 feet from
the cable. The chart just said 'cable area'.

Re. Loran, mine dies around sunset. It's a pretty old set, but I thought that
there was some effect with the ionosphere stabilizing that affected the Loran
transmissions. Anyone else see this ?

--
 Andrew Daviel, Vancouver, Canada
From: bartley@spss.com (Dennis Bartley)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: dingy bottoms
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:33:03 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

(Brian Smith) writes:
>
>I read once, somewhere, that a boat will go faster through warm water
>than it will through cold water (don't remember the physics--may have
>been something to do with bouyancy).  Whenever any male member of my
>crew needed to pee, I used to send him up forward to do it over the
>bow, thus gaining and edge on the competition....
>
>B.S! (what do you mean, I just made that up?) 

Seems to me that putting someone up on the bow would slow the boat
down much more than anything a little warm water might help?
From: rwt@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Rainer Thonnes)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Nav lights for a sailboat
Date: 7 Oct 92 11:05:24 GMT
Reply-To: rwt@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Rainer Thonnes)
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Edinburgh University

In article <1992Oct6.203555.1@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi>
mvartiai@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi writes:
>>From: AKILPINEN@finabo.abo.fi (Antti Kilpinen, IAMSR)
>> A minimal configuration would thus
>>consist of a combined tricolor-anchorlight and a combined red-green bowlight
>
>That is almost a permitted way to set the lights for a small (<12m) sailboat.
> [diagram deleted]
>When sailing I use tricolour and it illuminates my Windex too.
>When motoring I use bicoloured lantern and all-round white.
>Bicoloured is OK, but combined masthead light and sternlight is the question. 
>I prefer to have my lights well above the wawes.
>Normally I use a kerosene light as an anchor light.

The "almost minimal" arrangement I use on my 25ft Folkboat avoids the
combined tricolour-anchorlight.  I use an all-round white at the mast
top plus a sternlight mounted on the stern pushpit, plus a bicolour
mounted on the spreaders, just above where the forestay meets the mast
(the Folkboat has a three-quarter rig so there's no danger of the jib
obscuring the bicolour).  I checked the details of the colregs at the
time and convinced myself that it was legal (a) to combine steam and
stern in the anchor light for my size of boat, and (b) to mount the
bicolour up so high.

Sail: bi + stern;  Power: bi + anchor;  Anchor: anchor only.

There's the slight disadvantage of needing two bulbs under sail, but I
was put off by the disproportionately high cost of the tri/anchor
combination (the Aquasignal ones on sale here were about six times the
price of a simple all-round), plus the fact that because the tri is
illegal under power, I'd have needed an additional bi anyway.

Oh, and by the way, I didn't relish the thought of nailing cable tacks
to my wooden mast, so my cable goes up the backstay to the anchorlight,
then down one of the upper shrouds and along the spreader to the bi.

Rainer
From: roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Backing up
Date: 14 Oct 92 13:52:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: phri.1992Oct14.135216.29785
Organization: New York University, School of Medicine

keith@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Keith Hawkins) writes:
> Turning in one direction worked fine, turning the other direction did not.
> In fact, the boat kept turning in the original direction despite havning
> the tiller pushed all the way to the other side.
> [...]
> One of the guys in the marina said that was normal, that sailboats seem
> to back in one direction better than the other.

	I assume you're talking about under motor!  I'll admit I don't fully
understand the physics behind it, but a prop, in addition to providing
thrust along its axis (forward or reverse), also provides some sideways
force which tends to make the boat turn in one direction.  It's for exactly
this reason that boats that have two props usually have them counter-
rotating (i.e. turning in opposite directions); the two props generate a
sideways force in opposite directions, so they cancel out.

	Anyway, this is usually worse in reverse than in forward, again for
reasons I don't fully understand.  Part of the problem seems to be that in
order to cancel out the sideways force in forward, props on sailboats are
often set slightly off-center, or canted off to one side.  The problem with
this is that it exacerbates the problem in reverse.  I guess they figure
that you spend 99+% of your motoring time in forward, so they should
optimize it for that.  I think the problem tends to be worse in sailboats
than in powerboats, but I'm not sure why; it might have something to do with
the fact that sailboats tend to have slow-turning props.

	BTW, having your tiller pushed all the way over to one side probably
didn't help any; there reaches a point where the rudder is so far over that
it stalls, i.e. there is no longer smooth water flow over it.  Once that
happens, it's just providing drag and very little turning force.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: steve_lemme@gateway.qm.apple.com (Steve Lemme)
Subject: Need # for Marlin Manuf.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 20:36:30 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer
Followup-To: rec.boats

Just bought a 1980 Marlin runabout. Would like to get the owners manual
and replacement part ordering info. Consequently, I need to find
the phone number for Marlin. Could anybody help

Thanks
Steve
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: truher@netcom.com (Joel Burke Truher)
Subject: WANTED: Laser Hull
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 06:34:07 GMT

Hello netters,

I'm looking for a laser hull to go with the sails, spars, and rigging that
are lying around my house.  The old hull was stolen last year.  If
anyone has a spare they don't need, especially a beater, let me know.

Thanks,

Joel
From: gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Butane on Powerboats?
Date: 13 Oct 92 15:56:53 GMT
Organization: Progress Software Corp.

mike@ravel.udel.edu (Michael James Porter) writes:

>We're trying to decide between a single burner alcohol stove and a
>butane stove.  

As far as cooking on the thing goes, butane/propane has it all over alcohol.
Specifically, propane has much higher heat output so it cooks faster.  Also,
you can accurately regulate the flame on a gas stove.  Alcohol stoves
tend to have crude regulation by comparison.

>Is butane lighter than air?  How well does it heat compared to alcohol?
>How dangerous is it?

Properly handled, propna/butane are safe.  Improperly handled, they are
a hazard all out of proportion to any benefits from having them around.
Camp type stoves are *not* ok for boats.  Those disposable cartridges 
are made of metal pre-treated to rust quickly.

>Any info or experiences would be appreciated.

My opinion is that if your willing to spend the money and effort for a piece
of gear designed for the marine environment gas is the way to go.  Otherwise
stay with alcoho.  Bear in mind though, that alcohol can be rather dangerous
too.  

cheers,
gerard
Newsgroups: rec.boats