From: mece1xg@menudo.uh.edu (purna)
Subject: Re: Heritage and Culture..
Organization: Dept. of Wizardry, Univ. of Houston
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 00:27:43 GMT

howdy!

tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav) questions:
> For once, could someone please tell, what these terms mean/imply:
>  "our heritage"

mba2@Elroy.UH.EDU replies:
>The ideals your/our parents/family instill in us.  Yes, you can't take
>all of the ideals, but there is something there, that i'm sure is good.

tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav) responds:
> These ideals are everywhere. What is unique to "the ideals
> your/our parents/family instill" that isn't instilled by
> humans in Argentina/Zambia ?
> Which "good ideals" are unique to your heritage, that ain't found elsewhere?

it's just what you just quoted! they're *YOURS*!  they're not someone
elses!  in that sense, they are very much a part of you.  now, how
you choose to hold onto or reject none/some/all of them is entirely
up to you.  that in itself makes them unique. note, i'm not saying that
mine, yours, puneet's, or an argentian's ideals are any better or worse,
than anyone else's.  however, it makes sense that these "good ideals"
are similar through most cultures. after all, we're only human :)

tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav) continues about terms with:
>  "our culture"

mba2@Elroy.UH.EDU replies:
>AHHHHH...... Finally, I'm gonna get really philosophical here, so if you
>want to skip it, please do.  Culture (i.e. way of life, mind you not 
>religon)  For reference sake because I consider myself a Hindu, i will stick
>to Hinduism.

huh!?  didn't you just say that culture does not equal religion.  yet,
you now say that you will stick to hinduism?  as far as i am concerned,
hinduism is a religion, so i don't understand your argument.  however,
continuing on....

>          It is that which over generations has been created in a society
>which helps to bind people together to something common.  All right, the rest
>of you before you go off on talking about the crusades and jihads etc..., let
>me finish.  All aspects of our/your/whoevers culture are not necessarily good.
>But, for example, showing respect to your elders is not such a bad thing.  Or
>for that matter, taking care of your parents when they are old (having them
>live with you, instead of putting them in a home) is not such a bad thing.
>Calling your mom/dads friends uncle/aunti is not a bad thing.  Etc...  Look,
>you can either keep the parts of our/your culture that are good or you 
>can disregard every thing because somethings are bad.

tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav) responds:
> These things are natural to every human, IMHO. And we do (or want to do)
> these things because that makes us happy - not for the sake of culture.
>
> The basic reason of doing these things, in summary, is: this is right
> for me and this makes me happier.
>
> There is another way of looking at these things. If you have some way
> of deciding which part of the culture is good and which is bad, then it
> implies that you have some standards/principles already. Well, then, why
> worry about culture etc., decide directly from the standards/principles
> you have already.

i agree with tapesh here.  however, the point i think that needs to
be brought out is that WHERE did you get those standards/principles?
more than likely they came from your parents who got it from their
parents who got it from their parents and so on and so on.....

one other point.  puneet makes a statement that culture is
> that which over generations has been created in a society which
> helps to bind people together to something common.
hmmm...like what?  by such a general definition, i can claim
that the entire human race has the same culture because gravity
was created and it binds us all together to something common......
the planet earth :) :)


tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav) continues about terms with:
>  "pride in heritage,"

mba2@Elroy.UH.EDU replies:
>Again, this simpy upbringing.  I am proud to a punjabi.  My interpretation
>of being a Punjabi for example: We don't stand for shit from anybody.  Fine
>we kill a few people here and there, no bid deal.  <-- Your'e supposed to
>laugh at that, not get mad.

i am....you misspelled big :)

>                      Look, my parents raised me to be a person, along
>with it came some strings.  Those strings are related to their experiences,
>their parents experiences, and so on.  If I can't learn something from them,
>than were their lives wasted?  Supposedly you can use history to help predict
>the future.  Historians pour over books trying to show trends of things to
>come by looking at the past and our past mistakes.  Why can't individuals do
>it with the experiences of their elders, hence their Heritage.  I'm proud of
>my parents, their accomplishments and the accoumplishments of my culture.

tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav) responds:
> I am just another human and I "do not stand for shit from anybody" either.
>
> From your viewpoint, our heritage is collection of experiences of our elders.
> So then, lets get this straight. There is nothing called as "our"
> heritage. Because, experiences are pretty universal to all populations.
>
> Basing behavior on experience isn't the best way of going about life, IMHO.
> The other option is thought/reason; doing things because it is 
> right/just/fair/happiness. 

but, how do you DEFINE these terms? right? fair? just?  at one time, these
terms had SEVERELY different meanings.  the way i see it, your
thoughts/reasons will reflect your views on these matters, but those views
are typically instilled at an early age, which usually implies
parents and other "elders".

> Experience tends to get irrational with time. An American experiences an
> orthodox, irrational brahmin and adjust his/her behavior toward 
> all people with similar features. Is that right? No, we would say.
> Living life by experience is one easy way to become intellectually jaundiced.
>
> Personally speaking, I never care about what my forefather's culture/heritage
> was/is. In social life, I present "myself," and "my" thoughts/reasons.
> And I am happy with the quality of friends I make/keep. 

good for you!  that is EXACTLY how people should be.  unfortunately,
most people do not do that.  they prefer to hide behind masks and
play two-faced games.

but i still wonder.....
do you believe in murder and/or capital punishment?
how about divorce?
pre-marital sex?
the killing of animals?
the killing of animals for food?
rights of a woman?
etc.

your answers to these questions, whether you like it or not, will
be influenced by what you were taught to believe as "right" while
growing up.  and, in that case, it was most likely your parents who
showed you "right" from "wrong".  if so, they were probably relying
on their OWN beliefs as well as experiences.  thus, some part of
your "culture" will be passed on.

peace,
-purna
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian