HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Mohammad Khan <mohammad.khan@canrem.com>
Subject: what is wrong
Originator: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan -Moderator)
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:21:13 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

                        Dear Brothers and Sisters in Islam I ask you
what is wrong with the Muslim umah?  Muslims are being slaughtered and
raped in Bosnia and we are just sitting around.  I heard that an Islamic
Conferance was held and about 50 "Islamic Countries" agreed to go into
Bosnia by Jan 15th if nothing else was done by the "International
community".  Are we really so naive that we belive the U.S will head
into Bosnia to save the muslims??  The only reason they are in somalia
is because 2/3s of somalia was sold to an american oil exploration
company and the army is securing the area for EXPLORATION!!  We MUSLIMS
must defend ourselves and cannot depend on others e.g France, Britian
and espcially the U.S.  The only help and the best help is from ALLAH!
Allah says sins against him can be forgiven by him BUT sins against
others (humans) can only be forgiven by THEM.  We cannot continue to let
the serbs kill and rape muslim men, women and children something must be
done!

                                                Wassalam Alaikum,
                                                     Riaz Khan
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044

Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
From: nahmed@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Nawaz Ahmed)
Subject: Re: what is wrong
Originator: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan -Moderator)
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:47:37 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1993Jan25.4320.3322@dosgate>, Mohammad Khan
<mohammad.khan@canrem.com> wrote:
> 
>                         Dear Brothers and Sisters in Islam I ask you
> what is wrong with the Muslim umah?  Muslims are being slaughtered and
> raped in Bosnia and we are just sitting around.  I heard that an Islamic
> Conferance was held and about 50 "Islamic Countries" agreed to go into
> Bosnia by Jan 15th if nothing else was done by the "International
> community".  Are we really so naive that we belive the U.S will head
> into Bosnia to save the muslims?? The only help and the best help is from  	>ALLAH!

Here is what I think what is wrong with Muslim umah:
What Muslims do not have is unity. Muslims have
countries/Governments/resources
both manpower and richness but there is no unity. Muslims have been devided
on
teritory, sects and then races and among races are further divisions of
have and
have not or power/wealth. There are so many Islamic movements and
organisation
that even they can't bring about unity because they are also devided into
intrest groups. There is no way that unity can be brought brought about in
any way. Dajjally and Geoge and Megogue forces have occupied the muslims
with all kind of influence. UN is being used to further devide and weaken
the Muslims.

In this situation there is no way that unity can be brought about among
Muslims
with out the " Promised " person, you may call him "Messiah" or "Mahdi", or
any thing else. When this "promised person" is accepted by the Muslims then
unity will come automatically because there will be only one leader and one
umah. Associations, conferences, governments, aliances or sectarian
leaderships can not produce "one leader" and with out one leader there
can't be any unity. Muslims can't compete with Dajjal/Geoge/Megeoge forces
with arms and resources
of any kind but through unity of all kind. Unity of beliefs,political
system,human and material resources. Such a unity can't be achieved with
out "one leader" the acceptance of whome will not be voluntary but "Must"
because 
revival of Islam is linked to this "one leader" concept in later days. If
we read the Quran and Ahadees about later days this becomes very clear.

> We cannot continue to let
> the serbs kill and rape muslim men, women and children something must be
> done!
> 
>                                                 Wassalam Alaikum,
>                                                      Riaz Khan
> --
> Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
> World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044

nahmed@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
[standard disclaimer]


Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
From: Faraz Rabbani <faraz.rabbani@canrem.com>
Subject: re: un:what is wrong
Originator: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan -Moderator)
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:48:23 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

 MK> Assalaamu alaikum,

Waleikum assalam.

 MK> Dear Brothers and Sisters in Islam I ask you
 MK> what is wrong with the Muslim umah?  Muslims are being slaughtered and
 MK> raped in Bosnia and we are just sitting around.  I heard that an
 MK> Islamic Conferance was held and about 50 "Islamic Countries" agreed to
 MK> go into Bosnia by Jan 15th if nothing else was done by the
 MK> "International community".  Are we really so naive that we belive the
 MK> U.S will head into Bosnia to save the muslims??  The only reason they
 MK> are in somalia is because 2/3s of somalia was sold to an american oil
 MK> exploration company and the army is securing the area for EXPLORATION!!
 MK> We MUSLIMS must defend ourselves and cannot depend on others e.g
 MK> France, Britian and espcially the U.S.  The only help and the best help
 MK> is from ALLAH! Allah says sins against him can be forgiven by him BUT
 MK> sins against others (humans) can only be forgiven by THEM.  We cannot
 MK> continue to let the serbs kill and rape muslim men, women and children
 MK> something must be done!

Yes.  But we cannot just sit down and say "Allah will help Muslims."
He will only help us if we choose to help ourselves.

One example of this is that quite a few Pakistanis were deported
*immediately* from Dubai FOR PROTESTING (PEACEFULLY) outside the
Indian Embassy there when the Babri Masjid was torn down in
Ayodhya. 

If we Muslim "Brothers" treat _ourselves_ this way, then how can we
expect better treatment from others?

By the way: I saw no routing information in your message.  So, are
you local to Toronto? I study at UofT.

Faraz Rabbani
Toronto, Canada

Usenet: faraz.rabbani@canrem.com
Fido  : 1:229/15

... Death and taxes are both certain, but death isn't annual.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044

Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
From: khater@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (Issam Abu-Khater)
Subject: Boycotting American Cars
Originator: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan -Moderator)
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:45:58 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Assalam Alaikum,
I am forwarding this call by Prof. M. I. Elmasry hopping that it will
be of benefit for you:

Please Circulate...........
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Forwarded message:
> From elmasry Tue Jan 26 13:46:45 1993
> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 13:46:45 -0500
> From: "M.I. Elmasry" <elmasry>
> Message-Id: <9301261846.AA12582@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca>
> To: khater
> Subject: Boycott American Cars 
> 
>               D O  N O T  B U Y  A M E R I C A N  C A R S
> 
>               PROTEST U.S. DOUBLE-STANDARD FOREIGN POLICY
> 
> U.S. double-standard foreign policy in dealing with international problems is 
> so unfair that it is a real threat to world peace. 
> 
> The U.S. is now the only superpower and it is manipulating the U.N. to its 
> advantage. Now there are two types of U.N. resolutions: ones which are 
> enforceable by the U.S. military (eg. regarding Iraq and Libya) and the others 
> which are not (eg regarding Serbia and Israel). 
> 
> It is the time for peace loving people to protest this dangerous U.S. 
> double-standard foreign policy by boycotting American products, especially
> big-ticket items, eg. American cars. This will send the message to Washington
> loud and clear. 
> 
> This is not a new approach to register your protest. To this day, most 
> Japanese don't buy American cars because they still remember Heroshima and
> most Jews don't buy German cars because they still remember the Holocaust. 
> 
>                   L E T  U S  N O T  F O R G E T  ! ! 
> 
>               D O  N O T  B U Y  A M E R I C A N  C A R S 
> 
> 

..........................End Forwarded Messege.........................
Issam.
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Subject: Re: Questions!!!!
Originator: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan -Moderator)
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 01:48:39 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
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In article <21JAN199314471250@venus.cc.hollandc.pe.ca> young@venus.cc.hollandc.pe.ca (Don't touch WHAT button????) writes:
>am just asking questions so I may learn.
>     I have always beleived that there were three true(main) religions in 
>the world Christianity, Judaism and Islam (not listed in any order of 
>importance). Now my question is I have always wanted to learn about Islam 
>an I was wondering if anyone could suggest a good book to start with. I 

  If you want to know the essence of Islam, then you have to read
	"Quran". This is the original word of Allah (God) as believed
 	by Muslims. 

        [Try Abdullah Yousuf Ali's translation or M. Picthall's.]

  For a purely Muslim  point of view try
	Syed Abul Ala Maudoodi's "Towards Understanding Islam"
	 
         [It is succinct and can be finished in a few hours. It is
	 presented in today's language, easily understandable]

  For a non-Muslim's point of view of Islam, I have found
	John L. Esposito's "Islam" to be one of the better coverages.
        [Esposito's other books are also quite informative).

 
Note: The scholarship of Western orientalists
   who have written before 1970 (or thereabout) about Islam is often 
   not upto the mark because they
   have generally relied upon second and third sources,
   translated 100-150 or more years ago. As such they are not so 
   reliable. If you must, it is better to consult
   the recent Western authors. They have generally looked at Islam
   through the original references. Also, better translations are available
   today.


Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
From: rached@blanc.eng.ohio-state.edu (rached)
Subject: MONITOR:soc.culture.canada
Originator: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan -Moderator)
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:08:58 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Article: 14156 of soc.culture.canada
From: irfan@n3000c.ece.wisc.edu ()
Subject: SHORT NOTICE about a posting in alt.religion.all-worlds
Date: 20 Jan 93 15:32:54 CST

Anybody interested! 

There is a PART-1 of an article about the EVIDENCES OF EXISTENCE OF ALLAH (THE GOD)

WHERE?

In    alt.religion.all-worlds 
      talk.religion.misc



Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
From: as5h+@andrew.cmu.edu (Azleena Salleh)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Interpretations of the Quran
Date: 22 Jan 93 00:18:54 GMT


On 09-Dec-92 in Interpretations of the Quran 
 ahmed@dsg.cs.tcd.ie writes:
>I think if you read the Quran you will find that it is forbidden for a
>muslim woman to marry a non-muslim. Not only that but you will find also
>that a muslim woman should not continue, in marriage relationship, with
>a non-muslim man. 

I think as it says in the commentary by Abdullah Yusuf Ali that this is
so because in traditional practise the woman's cultural and religious
status is usually lost when she marries, that is, she usually takes on
that of her husband's.  Perhaps someone knowledgeable can comment as to
whether that this rule is still applicable in cases where the woman can
keep her own Islamic identity?  

wassalam,
-azleena
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
From: John E Hinton <jhinton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: seeking books about Hamas & Hizballah
Originator: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan -Moderator)
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:41:38 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

I am looking for books, secondary and primary sources, about Hamas and
Hizballah. Can anyone suggest any and tell me how to acquire them?

Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
From: mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Mazen Mokhtar)
Subject: Re: drinking and dancing
Originator: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan -Moderator)
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:07:30 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Assalamu `alaykum,

ahmed@dsg.cs.tcd.ie writes:
>Suresh Thennarangam writes:

>>But about drinking .. what do you have to say of people who live in extremely
>>cold climes and need to ingest alcohol perhaps as a form of self-preserval ?
>[...] In general there is no general answers to such
>hypothetical questions. Any answer should be between the lines:

>1- Alcohol is forbidden by Allah.
>2- One can use forbidden things only in a dire need ( to avoid certain
>death ). but one shouldn't jump to these forbidden things if there is any 
>possible alternative.


  I would like to add an important point. If you are in extremely cold
climate, DO NOT ingest alcohol. When faced with a cold environment, the
body concentrates the heat it can produce in the vital parts of the body
and away from the extremities. Comsumption of alcohol redistributes this
heat to the extremities, it produces no additional heat. This can cause
death if the body cannot maintain its internal temperature.


Assalamu `alaykum,

Mazen Mokhtar

Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
From: young@venus.cc.hollandc.pe.ca (Don't touch WHAT button????)
Subject: Questions!!!!
Originator: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan -Moderator)
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:38:37 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

am just asking questions so I may learn.
     I have always beleived that there were three true(main) religions in 
the world Christianity, Judaism and Islam (not listed in any order of 
importance). Now my question is I have always wanted to learn about Islam 
an I was wondering if anyone could suggest a good book to start with. I 
would perfer something that doesn't just jump right out and start throwing 
heavy theories at me. I would perfer something that comes from a gentle 
teaching point of view. Thanks for any help in advance.

                             Peace to all,
                             Stephen Young

p.s.-I am sorry if I might of offended anyone.
From: west@esd.dl.nec.com	 (Mike West)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Question about Joseph
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:24:14 GMT

I wanted to add my quick $.02.  I hope this discussion is not closed yet.

In this "Did Mary stay a virgin or not?" and "Who are Jesus' 'brothers'?"
discussion one answer seems to be overlooked.  Appearantly there is a body
of tradition that says that Joseph was a widower, and that Jesus'
brothers and sisters were His step-brothers and step-sisters.  In this
tradition, Mary stayed a virgin.

This view is presented in "The Protoevagelion" (or however it is spelled),
an ancient Christian writing.  It evidentally was one the the "rejected
books" of the Bible.

(Please note that I am *not* espousing this view.  I am just simply
curious as to why this solution had not been raised yet.)

Mike West
west@esd.dl.nec.com
From: mayne@ds2.scri.fsu.edu (Bill Mayne)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: *   help    *
Date: 28 Jan 93 08:49:24 GMT
Reply-To: mayne@ds2.scri.fsu.edu (Bill Mayne)
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

In article <Jan.26.04.49.50.1993.15187@athos.rutgers.edu> cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes:
>I am trying to discuss with someone the idea of the historicity of the gospels
>and the trustableness(?) of Christianity in general.  He wants to know why he 
>should accept the miracle accounts and the general historicity of the New 
>Testament and not accept miracle accounts in other books and/or religions.  If
>you can help, thank you, and if you want me to explain further, I would be 
>happy to do so.

You imply that this person should not accept miracle accounts in other
books and/or religions. I presume then that you yourself do not. What
reasons do you have?

*** SARCASM ON ***

What? You haven't read the holy books of other religions, together with
their commentaries and the supporting arguments they give?

*** SARCASM OFF ***

If you have and your acceptance of Christianity is based on reason then
you already know the answer to your question. Since you had to ask...

Bill Mayne
From: jtauber@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (James Tauber)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Bye-bye Home Bible Studies
Date: 25 Jan 93 05:47:18 GMT
Organization: The University of Western Australia

Tom Short (short@seismo.css.gov) wrote:
: church and state issue.  Apparently their thinking is you are inviting 
: people to your home, which is located in a residential neighborhood, and 
: having a Bible study.  Therefore your home is now a church.  
: 

Actually it's the people who are the church. See Philemon "to the church
that meet in your house" (apparently the Romans didn't have rezoning)

The whole church state issue hinges on the terrible linguistic mistake
of thinking the word `church' can possibly refer to an organization.

The word church comes from the greek kuriakon - the Lord's house
but the word NEVER occurs in Scripture. When we read `church' in
Scripture it is the word ekklesia - called out [ones].
Extra-biblically it refers to the assembly of the citizens of a city.
How this linguistic mistake occurred is unbelievable but its effect
has not been good. (The church-state issue for one). Most of Paul's
instructions on what to do amongst the church are misunderstood when
churches are seen as the *organizations* that use this term (wrongly).
As a linguistics student it would silly of me to ignore that fact that
words change meaning and given that the use of church in reference to an
organization or building is so widespread it could be argued that the
word now means those things. If this is the case, then Bibles have
mistranslated the word ekklesia.

I support the one suggestion of someone else on this thread 
that the law be delibrately broken. If
nothing else it will bring about a more Scriptural church.

In His Majesty's Service
James Tauber (Yaakov ben-Avraham)
jtauber@tartarus.uwa.edu.au
From: cnews@umr.edu (UMR Usenet News Post)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Assurance of salvation
Date: 22 Jan 93 08:35:14 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla, Rolla, MO

OFM writes:
> ...
>I have a problem with the attempt to treat assurance doctrinally.  It
>seems that what people want is some doctrine that guarantees them that
>they are saved, or at least specifies a test that can show that they
>are.  The results all seem unsatisfying.
> ...
>In my view, assurance has to come from trust in God.  And that trust
>has to grow out of your relationship with him.  That is, it's an issue
>of relationship, not an issue of doctrine.

I tend to agree.  If at the end of Joe's life Joe is not living for God,
Joe's "eternally secure" friends will simply say that Joe was never
saved.  Joe's "temporally insecure" friends will say, if Joe had ever
been a regular church-goer before, that Joe had "fallen away".

Neither doctrinal position helped Joe.  Joe's friends simply saw Joe's
unsaved state through their own doctrinal glasses.  What's important
is to pray for each other and to encourage one another in holy living.

Scott Hayes
scotth@cs.umr.edu
From: mjsmith@cac.washington.edu (Martha Smith )
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Maya Angelou poem
Date: 28 Jan 93 08:41:55 GMT
Organization: UW Computing

Please respect the copyright ... don't publish her poem like this
From: ddavis@cass.ma02.bull.com (Dave Davis)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Christian Research Institute (CRI)
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:17:19 GMT

[This message is somewhat edited.  In the original copy, the body
was repeated twice.  --clh]

Hi Jennifer. In Message-ID: <Jan.24.23.46.54.1993.2998@athos.rutgers.edu>
you write, 

> I am also in the Assemblies of God (Calvary Lighthouse, NJ) and have
> never heard of CRI.  I, too, would appreciate any more comments on
> this organization.  Does anyone know what exactly are the
> organization's qualms with Benny Hinn and or Kenneth Copeland?  I must
> admit that I was surprised to read CRI is "against" (for lack of a
> better word) such people...

I listen to a CRI broadcast on my way home from work most nights;
they impress me as mostly calm (they don't shout) and mostly
conservative protestants, and theologically orthodox (they talk 
a lot about 'the historic Christian faith' and 'the faith once 
given to the saints.').

Their address is CRI, P.O. Box 500, San Juan Capistrano, CA
			92693-0500. 
Their 'Christian Research Newsletter' is free (but that does
put you on the mailing list, for other 'offers', so use your
judgement); their 'Christian Research Journal' is $25 per
year, I think; it's quarterly . They were 'founded' (a
bequest?) by Walter Martin, whose book were mostly
about cults, etc. 

As to what their beef is with Benny Hinn, etc. (of whom
I know nothing directly), Hinn is often referred to on the
radio show as a 'Word-Faith' teacher, which movement is
considered (by CRI spokesmen) to be contrary to orthodoxy. 
They also regularly take issue with JW, LDS, and what
they call 'cults, the occult, and abberant Christian
doctrines.' Last night's show, for instance, was 
concerned with the New Age movement.

If anyone wants to know the specifics, you could write to
the address I mention above and ask for any free pamphlets
they have on the subject ('CRI Perspectives').

Hope this helps.


Dave Davis, ddavis@ma30.bull.com
These are my opinions & activities alone