From: ZQH@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Specification of F-16, SU-27 (I)
Date: 11 Sep 92 01:58:01 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

Well, since I'm waiting for research results from others, I got sometime
to write something about these jet fighters (my OLD favorite topics).

Some of recent arm purchases by PROC & ROC:

  ROC(Taiwan)
    1). to buy 150 F-16A/B fighters, probably with OCU (Operational
      Capacity Upgrade).  [F-16C/D for U.S. Airforce only].
    2). to buy 60 Mirage-2000 fighters with deep discounts.
    3). to buy 30 MIG-29 fighters(?).  [But the Russian Vice President
      reiterated to the visiting PROC Defense Minister a few days ago
      that Russia won't sell weapons to Taiwan.  And Russian President
      Boris Yeltsin will visit Mainland China soon].

  PROC(Mainland)
    1). purchased about 24 SU-27 fighters last year.
    2). bought 72 SU-27 and 24 MIG-31 interceptors early this year.
    3). acquired the right to license-production of 200+ MIG-31
    4). to purchase the almost-completed ex-Soviet aircraft
      carrier `Varyag' (which was launched on Nov. 28, 1988
      and is being fitted with weapon systems in port).
    5). to purchase 22 SU-27K (K for korabelnyy, ship-based)
      to arm the above-mentioned carrier.  [The hangar of
      `Varyag' can hold 18 SU-27K --- but you need a few more
      for the possible operational/training loss].  The carrier
      also have 18 helicopters for ASW (Anti-Submarine Warfare)
      and AEW (Airborne Early-Warning).

IMHO, ROC/Taiwan got to buy something to replace its aging F-5E
& F-104 fighters since its self-developed (with U.S. techonology
transfers) IDF's performance is far from what was expected.

On the other side of Taiwan Strait, after PROC/Mainland woke up
from the nightmare of the notorious Culture Revolution, it stopped
the production of 50's-era J-6/MIG-19 (it was at a bonehead rate
of one per day to produce this stone-age plane).  Even the production
of J-7/MIG-21 and J-8 (like an enlarged MIG-21 with twin-engines
but with much upgraded avionics, thanks to the technology transfers
from France) is at small batch rate and mainly for export.  I guess
those in charge of PROC Airforce realized that it's too hard to catch
up with other major powers by its own development and they anticipated
that they may get the license-production of their old big brother's
advanced airplanes (actually, most of them were trained in Russia
in 50's).

But I don't think those Mainland's developments are pointed at Taiwan.
Just as illustrated by the recent acquirement of cruise-missile
technology (by herself) and practice of in-flight refueling,
plus the purchase of aircraft carrier, it's obvious that Mainland
China is seeking means to protect China's interests in the South
China Sea.  I just hope that Mainland and Taiwan stop viewing
each other as enemy and work together for the common interests
of Chinese people.

The following is an old article with the comparison of those fighters:
(items in `[ ]' are empty in orginal article, they are for OCU-type
 or by estimation, see notes at bottom)

-------- cut here --------

From: carlo@gaia.gcs.oz.au (Carlo Kopp)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Date: 7 Feb 91 02:19:23 GMT

As published in May and June 1990 issues of  the  AUSTRALIAN
AVIATION journal

AIR SUPERIORITY PERFORMANCE COMPARISON TABLE (PACIFIC BASIN)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Type                  F-15C      F/A-18A    F-16A      Su-27      MiG-29
                      Eagle      Hornet     Falcon     Flanker B  Fulcrum A
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regional Users        USAF,      USN,RAAF   USAF       USSR       USSR
                      JASDF                 Sth Korea             India
                                            Indonesia             Nth Korea
                                            Singapore
                                            Thailand
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crew                  1(2-D)     1(2-B)     1(2-B)     1(2-UB)    1
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dimensions (ft)
Span                  42.8       40.4       32.8       48.2       37.27
Length                63.8       56.0       47.6       71.9       57.14
Height                18.5       15.3       16.4       19.45      15.52
Wing Area (sq)        608.0      400.0      300        ~680*      408*
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Weights (lb)
Basic Empty           29,900     23,000     14,567     33,800     24,200
MTOW                  44,800     37,500     33,000     66,000     39,000
Combat                39,800     30,000     19,100     48,400     30,200
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Int Fuel(lb)          13,455     11,000     6,972      22,200     8,900
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Propulsion
Manufacturer          GE         GE         P&W        Lyulka     Isotov
Type                  F110-GE100 F404-GE400 F100-PW100 AL-31F     RD-33
Thrust,Dry(lb)        18,300     11,000     16,200     ~17,000    11,000
Thrust,A/B(lb)        28,000     16,000     23,810     27,500     18,300
SFC A/B-Dry(lb/lb.hr) ~2.0-0.8   1.85-~0.8  2.17-~0.8  ~2.0-0.75  1.96-0.77
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Weapon Load (A/A)
Gun                   M-61A1     M-61A1     M-61A1     1x30mm     1x30mm
IR AAM  (A)           4xAIM-9M   2xAIM-9M   4xAIM-9    4xAA-11    4xAA-8
        (B)           -          4xAIM-9M   2xAIM-9    4xAA-8     4xAA-11
BVR AAM (A)           4xAIM-7M   2xAIM-7M  [2xAIM-7M]a 6xAA-10**  2xAA-7
        (B)           4xAIM-120  2xAIM-120  -          4xAA-10**  2xAA-10
        (C)           -          -          -          2xAA-10**  -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fire Control
Radar Type            APG-63PSP  APG-65     APG-66     LD/SD PD   NO-93
Detect.Range(n.mi.)   100+       38+        [40]b     cca 130    cca 54
TWS Targets           8          10         1          1          1
E/O System            -          -          -          IRST/      IRST/
                                                       Laser      Laser
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Electronic Warfare
RWR                   ALR-56C    ALR-67     ALR-69     yes        Sirena 3
ECM(Internal)         ALQ-135    ALQ-126B   -          yes        yes
Dispenser             ALE-45     ALE-39     ALE-40     yes        yes
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Performance
Max.Sp.Alt            2.5M       1.8M       1.95M      2.35M      2.3M+
Combat T/W Dry        0.92       0.733      0.85       ~0.7       0.73
Combat T/W A/B        1.41       1.07       1.25       1.14       1.21
Combat Ld Fctr(G)     +7.33      +7.5       +9         +9         +9
Combat Wg Ldg(lb/ft2) 63.2       75.0       63.7       71.2       74.1
Inst Turn Rt(deg/sec) 16.0       -          [19.6]c    23.0***    21.0***
Sust Turn Rt(deg/sec) 14.0       16.0       [17.2]c    17.0***    16.0***
Combat Radius         ~600       405        490        ~800       ~350
Inflight Refuelling   yes        yes        yes        no         no
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* not accounting for body lift at high AoA
** usually a mix of AA-10A, short range IR AA-10B and long range radar AA-10C
*** these turn rate figures are provisional and probably inaccurate

Definitions:
MTOW                  -          Maximum TakeOff Weight
Combat Weight         -          50% internal fuel, typical AAM load
SFC                   -          Specific Fuel Consumption
IR AAM                -          InfraRed, ie heatseeking Air-Air Missile
BVR AAM               -          Beyond Visual Range Air-Air Missile, usually
                                 radar guided
TWS                   -          Track-While-Scan, the ability of the radar to
                                 maintain multiple target tracks
LD/SD PD              -          LookDown/ShootDown Pulse Doppler
E/O                   -          Electro/Optical, usually infrared or TV
RWR                   -          Radar Warning Receiver
ECM                   -          Electronic CounterMeasures, ie trackbreaker
                                 jamming equipment
Combat Parameter      -          taken at combat weight, typical weapon load,
                                 at         altitude
Missile Weights:
AIM-9=200 lb, AIM-7=500 lb, AIM-120=330 lb,
AA-7=700 lb, AA-8=130 lb, AA-10=~500 lb, AA-11=~200 lb

Author's note:
This table was compiled from a wide range of sources some of
which  disagree  on  specific parameters. Where this has oc-
curred, reasonable estimates or interpolation have been used
and the figure tagged as approximate (~). It is worth noting
that the combat performance of the Flanker is taken  at  50%
of  its  unusually large internal fuel load and thus appears
rather modest. If a combat fuel load of 7,000 lb is assumed,
the combat weight of 44,400 lb yields an afterburning T/W of
1.24 and a wing loading of 65.3  lb/sqft  which  places  the
aircraft firmly in the class of a F100-PW-100 powered F-15C.
Combat missile loads are typical and usually comprise IR AAM
(A)  and  BVR  AAM  (A) loads, although the Flanker is taken
with its typical BVR AAM (A) load only.

-------- cut here --------

Notes for the items in `[ ]':
  a). F-16A/B with OCU (Operational Capacity Upgrade) has
    the added capacity to fire BVR (Beyond Vision Range)
    air-to-air missiles such as AIM-7 Sparrow AAM.
  b). from Jane's Weapon System, 1989
  c). some basic equations:

       Wing_Loading = Lift_Coefficient * 1/2 * Air_Density * Velocity**2

       Load_Factor = Turning_Rate * Velocity

   Since F-16A has almost the same combat wing loading as F-15C, we can
   assume it also has almost the same combat velocity (not max velocity!)
   when dogfighting (well, the lift coefficient might be different but
   considering F-16A and F-15C were the products of the same 70's era
   the difference should be small and once you apply square to velocity
   the difference in velocity become even smaller).

   Then we can estimate the turning rates of F-16A from those of F-15C
   by using the second equation and analog:

     (9.0g/7.33g) * (14.0_16.0) = (17.2_19.6) degree/second

   Those two equations also explain why the modern dog-fighting occurs
   at lower altitude (air is thicker) and slower velocity (subsonic)
   because it's the only way you could have the highest turning rate
   (but you are losing your energy --- velocity + altitude, so you
    need very powerful engines to power your jet fighters and a lot
    of fuel to feed those ever hungrier afterburners of your engines).
   Of course, you could increase the wing lift coefficient at combat
   situations by improving the aerodynamic design of fuselage+wings,
   just like F-18, SU-27 and MIG-29 achieved as the 80's era jet
   fighters.

  (to be continued)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china