HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ka02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Kent P. Aitchison)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock adoption (Portland Mystery)
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:55:42 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

# jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis) writes:
##
##      Has the Glock been adopted by any large organization, police-force or
## military?
##                                                              Thanks.
#
#It was adopted by the Portland, Or. PD acouple of years ago (2?), but they are
#now in the process of getting rid of them.  They have had nothing but problems
#with them.                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
#
#--
#Eric Kozowski                | System/Network Administrator
#
What does this phrase mean?  Do Portland's finest have trouble keeping fingers
out of the trigger guard on reholstering?  Unable to master their own weapons?
I have a hard time believing that the weapons are doing anything but
functioning true to their design.

Sorry to harp, but this smells of something from the unsubstantiated gossip
and rumors department.

Kent
-- 

****************************************
**     Kent P. Aitchison              **
**       KA02@NS1.CC.LEHIGH.EDU       **
**       Rauch Business Center 211    **  I'm finally the NRA.
**       #37 Lehigh University        **
**       Bethlehem, PA  18015         **
From: tmi@netcom.com (Peter Alan Kasler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Where to find Prolix in Bay Area
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:23:51 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In <47hc02Yw25R=01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> fjb20@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Francis J. Bruening) writes:


#Hi, 

#I've called almost every gun shop in the South Bay area, and can't find 
#anyone who carries Prolix.

#Can someone recommend a play in the Bay area to get it or if it's only 
#available via mailorder could someone give me the number to call? 

#thanks!
#Francis

#replies by email are fine, or I'll bet others might want this info also...

	Prolix is available from TMI. 

	1 oz.:		$3.00
	4 oz.:		$6.00
	8 oz.:		$9.00
       .5 gal.:	       $35.00
	1 gal.:	       $70.00
-- 
     Peter Alan Kasler                            Fax: 707-939-8684
     Threat Management Institute                Voice: 707-939-0303
     800 West Napa Street                     TMI BBS: 707-935-1713
     Sonoma, CA  95476                     Internet: tmi@netcom.com
From: feustel@netcom.com (David Feustel)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Recommendation for bullet-proof vest wanted.
Date: 7 Oct 92 12:59:46 GMT
Organization: DAFCO: OS/2 Software Support & Consulting

watt-alan@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt) writes:

#The obvious conclusion: disarm the police and the crooks will follow :-)

This is, in fact, what happened in Japan, according to David Kopel
in his book "The Samurai, The Mountie and the Cowboy" which I've just
started reading and which I recommend highly.
-- 
Dave Feustel N9MYI <feustel@netcom.com>
 
[.sig on vacation]
From: tmi@netcom.com (Peter Alan Kasler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock Experience
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:21:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Oct9.074305.1713
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)


	Jeff, 

		Glad you enjoyed the book, especially after such a
long delay in getting it.

		Do you happen to know the name of the person at the
factory you dealt with? They're all very nice and helpful, but I'd
like to know who it was that you met. thanks.

-- 
     Peter Alan Kasler                            Fax: 707-939-8684
     Threat Management Institute                Voice: 707-939-0303
     800 West Napa Street                     TMI BBS: 707-935-1713
     Sonoma, CA  95476                     Internet: tmi@netcom.com
From: gus@prism.gatech.edu (gus Baird)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Smith model 27 wear
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:58:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: hydra.71338
Organization: College of Computing, Georgia Institute of Technology


In article <7277.78.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us> jim.wray@cutting.hou.tx.us (Jim Wray) writes:
 >FC>puzzles me is the wear to the bluing: About 1/4" from the front
 >FC>end of the cylinder, at the side edge of the grooves (I forget
 >FC>what the're really called...) and in a small spot exactly between
 >FC>these grooves. As far as I can tell, this part of the cylinder
 >FC>never contacts _anything_, although it is under a old, empty screw hole
 >FC>in the frame (from a scope mount I got rid of.) So I'm at a loss
 >FC>to understand why the bluing should be wearing there and not anywhere
 >FC>else...
 >
 >I'd bet that the scratching comes from the hand. That's the little gizmo that
 >"times" the cylinder and ensures that it is in the right position WRT the
 >forcing cone. The hand retracts as the cylinder begins it's rotation for

that's not the hand, that's the bolt.  the hand (pawl) is the fellow
who pushes the cylinder around.
-- 
gus Baird, College of Computing
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!prism!gus
ARPA: gus@cc.gatech.edu
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Can airgun scope be used on centerfire rifle?
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:05:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: ke4zv.1992Oct14.160200.26034
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <9210122323.AA15751@elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov> minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov (Minh Lang) writes:
#I know that a centerfire rifle scope cannot be used
#on an air gun due to the dual-phase recoil of a
#piston-operated air gun.  I'm wondering now if

Frankly, I find this hard to believe. I've got a Leupold 1.5x5 on a
Crossman piston-operated airgun and it's survived thousands of shots.

Gary
From: feustel@netcom.com (David Feustel)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: BailBondsman Nationwide Carry Privileges?
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:23:57 GMT
Organization: DAFCO: OS/2 Software Support & Consulting

I recall reading something that implied that bail bondsmen could
carry firearms nationwide. Can someone who knows about this please
confirm or deny with elaboration? Thanks.
-- 
Dave Feustel N9MYI <feustel@netcom.com>
 
[.sig on vacation]
From: cower@ssd.intel.com (Rich Cower)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: experiences with once-fired 223 brass
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:48:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: SSD.9210121550.AA01743
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division (SSD), Intel


For those that might be planning on doing something with this once fired
military brass in 223, here is what I've found.

I ordered up some Midway 223, once fired, cleaned, de-primed and crimp
removed brass. I've processed 1000 of these to date. The results are:

28 total rejects. 
11 had the neck shot. I didn'`t think they would hold a bullet.
12 had the case dented real bad. 
5 had bad shoulders. 

31% needed trimming. 1 still had the primer in, tho the case was ok.

I'm doing this on my Rockchucker. Yes, it can be done. I'm too poor/and or
cheap to purchase a progressive for this. This opinion might change with
the next 1000.

thanks...rich
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm: Which *not* to buy?
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:16:13 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <9210071720.AA08842@danbri.YP.attc> danbri@danbri.Auto-trol.COM (Dan Brigham) writes:
#In article <1992Sep28.221436.11199@cs.rose-hulman.edu> you wrote:
#: 
#: Astra A-100 (someone said these were very accurate)
#
#No info

I don't have any info on the A-100 either, but the 600 is a killer if you
can find one. Possibly the toughest 9mm I've ever used.

#: Browning BDM
#
#I have a Browning Hi-power and if the BDM is half the gun the Hi-power is, you
#could not go wrong. All that I have heard is that it is even better then the 
#Hi-power. I have had great luck with Browning products, a nicer finish you 
#cannot find. (Think about a used Hi-power, you may be able to get a decent 
#deal at a show). 

IMHO the BDA is about half the gun the Hi-Power is. :-(
The Hi-Power, especially older ones, are extremely fine guns, well worth
the trouble to track down. This is, of course, a SA weapon, but it does
have good magazine capacity.

#: Glock 17/19
#
#I have an early 17 and love it. This is one of the ugliest guns in the world 
#to look at but a great shooter. The people who say small handed people should 
#beware could be correct, I have small hands (normal palm size, very short 
#fingers) and >this fits me great, however I have seen some people it did not 
#fit. Never had a problem or jam with it.

The modern combat arm to own. Not pretty, but won't let you down.

Gary
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Penetrating ability of 38 Sp and 9mm
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:54:31 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

gaucher%beryllium.cchem.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU writes:

#I'd like to know what the penetration ability
#of standard 38 Special and 9mm FMJ target loads 
#would be in terms of various target materials:
#              phone books
#              newspaper
#              wood
#I suppose we could assume a muzzle velocity of
#approximately 1100 fps. Any information which
#someone could furnish pertaining to sound levels
#of such ammunition would also be helpful.

	9mm is loud.   I used to shoot outside until some scumbags got
it closed up by deciding that the shooting area was a great place 
to dump their rubbish and filth (Oh how I wished I could find out
where they lived and drop off their soggy tick-infested mattreses 
and mounds of shitty diapers right back into the offender's own 
living room. %^(  ...).    Rather than "no dumping" the sign now
says "no shooting, under penalty of prosecution".

	When my girlfriend was shooting, it seemed like about 90 feet
of distance was required to keep the noise at a sub-pain level if I
had my plugs out.

.38 is a lower pressure round, I would expect it to be less noisy.
The .38 is also ~755 fps vs ~1100, and RN lead would penetrate less
than ball even at the same velocity. 

Penetration:

Phone books, newspaper and wood...  I tried all this and more
(and I always cleaned up).  
9mm FMJ seemed to penetrate an unlimited quantity of any of these.

There was no thickness of wood that seemed to stop FMJ slugs.
I tried 4X4s, thick wood doors,  stacks of boards, etc.  Of
course it couldn't penetrate thick logs, but I'm not sure
how far the slugs got.   Maybe 4 inches or so.

HPs seemed to exibit less penetration, but I can't say by how
much.   .22s, suprisingly, from my little pocket gun also 
penetrated more than I expected, but not to the extent of
the larger round.  They went through a thick door or a dozen
layers of thin sheet metal, but I don't think they could do the 
4x4s.

Clay (the cheap water-based kind) is loads of fun too.  More
so than the phone books because they were less messy and you
can re-use it for every shot.   Unlike jello-type fun-targets,
clay doesn't go back into it's original shape.  It just stays
there with a softball sized meteor-impact cavity (this was
with the .22 funny-gun).

Needless to say, I was not suprised when no Nobel Prize was
awarded to me for my research.

%^)

Jim Del Vecchio

#Lee Gaucher
#gaucher@beryllium.cchem.berkeley.edu
From: leem@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Lee Mellinger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: S&W M1006 vs. M4006
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:55:46 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)

In article <9210060201.AA22252@unix.cie.rpi.edu> vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten) writes:
:I have been looking at the Smith & Wesson M1006 stainless steel autoloader
:in some of my reference books and noticed that it has a 9-round magazine.
:The same book shows that the M4006 in .40 S&W has an 11-round magazine.


The S&W 1006 is based on the single column .45  4506 frame and the 4006 is
based on the stagger column 9mm 5906 frame.:

Lee

"Nothing blasts forever" -- Keats on ammo.

|Lee F. Mellinger                 Caltech/Jet Propulsion Laboratory - NASA
|4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109 818/354-1163  FTS 792-1163     
|leem@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV
From: $$$CBFI@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu (Jack Schudel)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Are there restrictions on carry in public places
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:23:33 GMT
Organization: University of Florida, NERDC


In article <h#kz9tp@rpi.edu>
kokerj@rpi.edu (James Matthew Kokernak) writes:
 
#In article <199209281440.AA21774@tbird.cc.bellcore.com> sykes@donner.cc.bellcore.com (sykes,michael) writes:
#
#It is a violation of Federal Laws to trannsport a firearm into any federally
#insured buildings. This means any banks, post offices, federal court houses,
#etc. In many states it is also against state regulations to bring a gun onto
#any school grounds.
#
#--Jim
 
Can you provide the statute number????
 
Thanks.
 
/jack
From: bluemoon!jamaass@gator.rn.com (Jeffrey A. Maass)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Reloading advice needed
Date: 16 Oct 92 13:17:30 GMT
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])

bakc@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR KR COMAN) writes:

<<<Stuff about cost analysis of reloaded deleted >>

# 
# 2.
# Depreciate your kit on a '1st usage' basis.  Here, the first round you load
# you regard as costing you the full capital cost of your equipment, thereafter
# the only costs you consider are the variable expenses of powder, lube, 
# heads, and primers.
^^^^^
I incur no cost for my head: already have the one I was originally
issued. Why do you have an expense for your head? heads?



Jeff Maass                   Amateur Radio: K8ND (@ W8CQK)
Powell OH (NW of Columbus)         Netmail: jamaass@bluemoon.uucp

[MODERATOR: arg]
From: cmraman@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Focused on Infinity)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: NAvy Seals and Barett Sights
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:59:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: darkstar.1bknouINN1bv
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz


In article <9210100144.aa10817@s.s.ms.uky.edu> miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant) writes:
#Anyone remember the movie that came out a few years back about a couple
#of LA cops who flew this ultra-modern helicopter? 
"Blue Thunder". As I recall, the chopper in question was a heavily modified
Aerospatiale Gazelle, with lots of available equipment on it (there was an
article about it in "Popular Mechanics" magazine, maybe I can find it.).
#I can't think of the name
#right now, but at the beginning of the movie there is a disclaimer that
#says "the weapons and technology depicted in this film are real and in use
#today" or something to that effect. Ay any rate, in the film there was a
#scene that showed the cops eaves-dropping on some "bad guys" inside a building.
#I also seem to remember them showing some sort of "sight" that also showed
#"images" of men as they moved behind a wall.
As I recall, this scene took place in an apartment with glass walls, only a
curtain separating the people inside from the glass.
I'm still not sure that they could get such thermal imaging from it,
though. I have a feeling they tarted that one up in the effects room.
#Anyone else remember this movie, or any more details?
#One more thing I remember is that the helicopter also had a "quiet" mode.
#That is, the engine could be put into a "quiet mode".
Yeah, but it couldn't fly very fast in the "whisper mode". 
You forgot about the surplus minigun turret from a Cobra, too.

One thing I remember most about that film was the climactic chase scene, in
which they were chasing Roy Scheider through downtown LA in the 'copter.
Thought it was really cheesy that they "looped" the thing to allow him to
polish off his opponent.


-- 
..___... ...___... ...___... ...___... ...___... ...___... ...___... ...___...
Marc Reeve
cmraman@ucscb.ucsc.edu	cmraman@deeptht.santa-cruz.ca.us
"Dragon with matches loose on the town
Takes a whole pail of water just to cool him down."

Naturally my opinions are unheard by UCSC, as it is a bureaucratic monolith.
From: toby@carson.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Remington 788
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:15:40 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Oct7.235830.23550@ke4zv.uucp> ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:
#This gun isn't particularly handsome, and the magazine is cheezy,
#but if you're building a single shot bench rifle, you won't find 
#a better starting point than a 788 receiver.

Whoa, there.  I can think of many better -- Hall, Wichita, Stolle,
Hart, Shilen, etc.  By the time you buy any factory action, true
it to BR standards, and sleeve it, the custom action looks like
the bargain it really is.  The last time a big benchrest shoot
was won with a 788-based rifle was.....uh....uh....

Toby Bradshaw
Department of Biochemistry and College of Forest Resources
University of Washington, Seattle
toby@u.washington.edu
From: ehorne@zeus.calpoly.edu (Eric T Horne)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Loaded Clips
Date: 13 Oct 92 03:20:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: nike.9210130106.AA102274
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo

In article <tmi.718437304@well.sf.ca.us> tmi@well.sf.ca.us (Peter Kasler) writes:
#In <9209300801.aa11961@sco1.qdeck.com> burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge) writes:
#
##In article <1992Sep25.015920.1974@odin.corp.sgi.com> barnes@cowboys.esd.sgi.com (Jim Barnes) writes:
###If I have my clip loaded but out of the gun, the gun is still considered
###loaded.
###Right?
###Now what if I have a unloaded clip in the gun and a loaded clip near
###by???????
###Am I still in trouble?????
#
##In California, you still would be in trouble.  The rule of thumb being
##immediate access to both gun and ammo at the same time.  Granted I have
##broken this thumb on many occaisions.  They are supposed to be separate
##and locked.
#
#	Not true! The law in California is very clear and well-settled
#on this point, despite the fact that numerous "experts" and cops don't
#know what is legal and what is not.

A sad fact.. 

#
#[stuff about PC 12031 deleted]
#	Urban myth notwithstanding, if someone is arrested for
#violating PC 12031 (having a loaded gun in a public place without a
#CCW) because he or she had an empty gun in the same container as one
#or more loaded magazines or ammunition in any other form, and no other
#facts exist to complicate the matter, dismissal of charges should be
#rather routine and not difficult.

  I was told by someone that it is LEGAL to carry a UNLOADED weapon in
  California without any type of permit (except for the registration of
  the weapon, probably) so long as you do not have on your person any
  ammunition. Can any of you  legal types cite a PC number or at least
  verify my friends "claim" (personally, I don't think that you can
  do this..). If you are unclear on what I am saying...

  My friend says that it is legal to carry his Ruger P89 with him at any
  time on public property (barring buildings and places which do not allow
  you to carry any type of a weapon, of course) so long as it is unloaded.
  Reason for doing this -- Halloween is coming up... 

  To avoid unnecessary clarifications, lets keep it to carrying unloaded
  handguns (concealed or not), and assume that my friend will not brandish
  the weapon or do anything like that.

  Thanks for you input!

  -Eric
From: lvc@cbvox1.att.com (Lawrence V Cipriani)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: CCW Requirements, Ohio
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:20:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnews.1992Oct9.004602.21134
Organization: Ideology Busters, Inc.

In article <1992Oct8.150946.7006@icd.ab.com> kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. Whitehead) writes:
#Can anybody give me the lowdown on what's required to get a CCW
#in Ohio?

Write, call, visit, lobby, bribe ;-) your legislator.  That's the only
way we'll ever see it happen.

There is no such this as a CCW permit in Ohio.  If you carry concealed,
and are not in law enforcement, or similar occupation, it's a felony.
The only way out of a conviction is to prove you were a "prudent man
in going armed."  For example, if you take lots of money to the bank
for your business, or a threat to your life has been made.  You cannot
carry concealed out of a desire for preparedness.

If you are carrying concealed and are involved in a shooting and you
are not the criminal, that is sufficient defense to not be convicted
of carrying illegally.

I've read in the papers that first time offenders who have no other
criminal record are typically sent to an "education program" for
attitude adjustment but not jail.  If you are serious about doing
this illegally, of course you won't, see a lawyer first to find
out all the risks.
-- 
Larry Cipriani, att!cbvox1!lvc or lvc@cbvox1.att.com
From: valluri@cco.caltech.edu (Siddhartha Valluri)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Navy SEALS gunsite
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:59:38 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena


 This is a followup to the comment on audio detector technology on
the -Blue Thunder- . The fact that the helicopter itself is noisy
does not prevent it from detecting conversations far away. A cool
example of this is in the SR-71 spy plane which has IR cameras which
detect minute temperature differences 70000` below on the earth.However
these are mounted in the fuselage bays and look through windows which
have air at 700+ deg. flowing outside them.Inspite of this huge amount
of thermal noise in their vicinity they are amazingly accurate.A hint on
how this works is somwhat like having a patch of dirt on your window
but still being able to enjoy scenery thats far away because you focus
the dirt out when you are looking far away.

sid.
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun Solvent Substitutes
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:48:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: bbxrbk.1992Oct12.142006.22614
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <199210111655.AA24922@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
#In article <9210111515.AA21226@gw.wmich.edu> x90hornbach1@gw.wmich.edu writes:
##I'm curious if anyone has come up with a cost-effective substitute for gun
##solvent.  I hate to  spend $3-$4 for a few ounces of "gun solvent" when I could
##probably buy some other type fluid at the same price for a gallon.  I realize
##harsher solvents could have undesired results on wood or plastic finishes.  
#
#I once fixed a friend's car brakes, and he mentioned that the Gunk (tm)
#a was using to clean off the asbestos(sp?) dust smelled just like
#the gun solvent he used. We both thought it was probably quite similar.
#Does anyone know for sure?

Brake cleaner is the same thing as the spray "Gun Scrubber" et. al.,
but I think that the posting above was looking for a replacement for
Hoppe's #9 and whatnot.  I don't know of a replacement for those
cleaning solvents (not one that's available off the shelf, or worth
mixing up - I buy Hoppe's by the quart).

The brake cleaners are identical to "Gun Scrubber" and it's ilk, and
are a lot cheaper to boot.  I buy mine at a warehouse outfit (Price
Club) for something like $1.50/can or so.  It works fine on all my
firearms, with only a little softening detected on a Marlin Camp
Carbine when I left a rag soaked in the cleaner on the plastic on the
receiver.  I'd test plastics in a concealed place before spraying 
the cleaner with abandon.

-- 
Russ Kepler, posting from home
Will hack unix for food 		(.sig stolen from dt - sorry, dt)
From: conley@hawk.cs.ukans.edu (Dennis R. Conley)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: CCW in Kansas
Date: 13 Oct 92 13:18:38 GMT
Organization: University of Kansas Computer Science Dept

In article <9210092130.AA07971@doc.ksu.ksu.edu> jimfost@doc.ksu.ksu.edu (Jim Foster) writes:
#Does anyone out there know the CCW requirements/laws for Kansas?

Only licensed private investigators may legally carry concealed. They must be
trained and qualified by "PI instructor" persons, who are in turn certified
by the Attorney General's office.

Efforts to pass a CCW law in Kansas last spring were essentially ignored by
our glorious state legislature, after the Attorney General testified that
allowing citizens to carry concealed would bring back the "wild west" days.

-- 
|Dennis R. Conley, Computer Science Dept., University of Kansas (913)864-7372 |
|conley@hawk.cs.ukans.edu			     conley@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu|