HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: roy_wells@qm.vitalink.COM (Roy H. Wells)
Subject:   Civil War Reenactment in Fresno, CA
Reply-To: roy_wells@qm.vitalink.COM (Roy H. Wells)
Organization: What organization?
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 23:11:01 GMT

  "The Civil War Revisited" in Fresno

	For those who found themselves riveted to their television sets during the PBS series "The 
Civil War," there is an opportunity to go beyond watching the Civil War through still photos.  
During the weekend of October 10-11, the members of the National Civil War Association 
(NCWA), in affiliation with the Fresno City and County Historical Society, will provide the 
opportunity for the public to "experience" what the Civil War was like.

	During the weekend, NCWA members will present a living history of the Civil War in Kearney 
Park, just east of Fresno, California.  Camps of the Union and Confederate armies of 1863 will 
bring to life the soldiers and civilians of that era.  The members of the NCWA will provide a means 
for visitors to step into the past, to an era when horses, not automobiles, were the means of 
transportation.

	This is a history to delight more than just the eyes.  The public can hear the roar of 
cannons, smell the acrid smoke of the black powder muskets, and feel the thundering hooves of 
horses as they race into combat.

	Although most people come to see the two battles each day, there is more going on at an 
NCWA encampment.  Members of the civilian "Town" will be bartering for goods in a Farmer's 
Market.  Soldiers will be drilling, or writing letters home.  Doctors will examine men for fitness to 
serve.  Each moment is filled with a slice of history brought to life.

	"The Civil War Revisited" is only one of several living history reenactments conducted by 
the NCWA each year throughout Northern California.  During the year, the NCWA generally 
conducts approximately one such event per month from March through November each year.

	In addition to the reenactments, NCWA members also contribute to the education of the 
public about the Civil War by making presentations at schools, civic clubs, and other 
organizations.  Founded in 1983, the NCWA is a non-profit educational organization that serves 
the public through its activities.

	For a recording of information about the NCWA, its activities, and other facts, the NCWA 
maintains an automated telephone line at 408-927-7651.

----
"If you can't reach (age) 70 by a comfortable road, don't go."  --Mark Twain
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: pholland@iastate.edu (Paul J Hollander)
Subject: Re: Artillery Question
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:50:16 GMT

In article <00961AEA.28A882C0@OCTAVO> jthoppers@OCTAVO writes:
>regarding exploding shells:
>Shrapnel was invented in 1784. It consisted of a hollow shell filled with 
>powder and shot ball (the caliber varied), and a fuse. The length of the 
>fuse determined the time from firing to shellburst.
>Exploding shells, which were hollow shells filled with powder only and a 
>fuse, were in use at an earlier date (I don't have a year), so may have 
>been available in 1757.

Sounds as if a shrapnel shell would have some significant advantages over
cannister and grape, such as longer range and for lobbing over the wall of
a fortification.  And what would grape do to rifling?  Maybe chew it up 
pretty fast?

Paul Hollander    pholland@iastate.edu
Behold the tortoise: he makes no progress unless he sticks his neck out.


Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Larry Jewell)
Subject: Re: Ironclads (was Re: News of the World)
Keywords: Ironclad, warships, _Monitor_, _Virginia_
Organization: Purdue University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 01:29:21 GMT

In article <1992Sep26.013427.12766@leland.Stanford.EDU> whale@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen Schmidt) writes:
>In article <Bv5JHD.928@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Larry Jewell) writes:

>>We must have different definitions of "peace."  World domination by anyone
>>is not the same as peace, IMHO.

>Umm... peace = not at war?

 Nope, guess again.
 Peace means nobody's dying from military actions.  Peace is a very rare
commodity.

>What would you consider 1946-1949 to be? I thought that was peace although
>the US was clearly dominant.

 Ah, I see, we're talking US at peace, no world world peace?  But the original
post said Britain made world peace by dominating all rivals.  Know how many
"police actions", etc., took place during Pax Britanica?  How about the 
Spanish-American War?  England went to war with Madagascar! during this 
period (war lasted under two hours.)  Boer War?

>How about the first century AD in the Mediterranean?

 That part of the Mediterranean already under Roman rule?  Or that part
that was about to be invaded by legions?

>How about 1820-1860 in Europe?

 Europe was too busy expanding overseas colonies to fight at home ("Bad
for business, don't you know!")

>How about today? Is the United States not at peace?

 How about the fighter's in the sky over Iraq, the threat of military
intervention in Iran and Yugo-Wego-theygo-slavia?

>Curious....

 Yes, isn't it.

>-- 
>Steve Schmidt			<><		   whale@leland.stanford.edu
>I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist
>indoctrination, Communist subversion, and the international Communist
>conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids!

Larry J

-- 
#L.W. Jewell Moderator at the Veterans Information Site (veteran@cc.purdue.edu)#
#& WWII-L Listowner: "Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange,#
#sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all   #
#phases of life." "Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41  #
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: whale@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen Schmidt)
Subject: Re: butternut
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 01:39:12 GMT

At Antietam, A.P. Hill's light division was wearing blue uniforms, maybe
captured at Harper's Ferry. This caused Burnside's rookie regiments not
to fire on them until it was too late, possibly altering the outcome of
the battle/the war/history as we know it...
-- 
Steve Schmidt			<><		   whale@leland.stanford.edu
I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist
indoctrination, Communist subversion, and the international Communist
conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids!
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: whale@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen Schmidt)
Subject: Artillery Question
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 05:09:49 GMT

OK, this question _is_ about 100 years off-thread, but I'm asking anyway.
pffffft. :)

Just saw "Last of the Mohicans" and there's a scene where the French artillery
is shelling a British fort. Both sides are using exploding shell, both from
field pieces and from siege mortars. The movie is set in 1757. Isn't this
about 50 or 100 years too early for them to have exploding shell? Or is my
memory about the introduction of shrapnel wrong?

It's a pretty good movie although it is EXTREMELY violent, and pretty
graphic. Don't take anyone under 18 to see it. There was a lot of
re-enactment in it, and to my untutored eye it was pretty good. You never
saw anyone loading his musket except in one scene, but that aside it was
accurate as far as I could tell.

OK, back to your regularly scheduled war. :)
-- 
Steve Schmidt			<><		   whale@leland.stanford.edu
I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist
indoctrination, Communist subversion, and the international Communist
conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids!
From: jeromema@cc.uvcc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Poetic Sentiments of Maj. Ballou...
Date: 2 Oct 92 22:30:03 GMT
Organization: Utah Valley Community College


                                      July 14, 1861     
                                  Camp Clark, Washington

My very dear Sarah:

The indications are very strong that we shall move in a few
days--perhaps tomorrow.  Lest I should not be able to write again,
I feel impelled to write a few lines that may fall under your eye
when I shall be no more...

I have no misgivings about, or lack of confidence in the cause in
which I am engaged, and my courage does not halt or falter.  I know
how strongly American Civilization now leans on the triumph of the
Government, and how great a debt we owe to those who went before us
through the blood and sufferings of the Revolution.  And I am
willing--perfectly willing--to lay down all my joys in this life,
to help maintain this Government, and to pay that debt...

Sarah, my love for you is deathless, it seems to bind me with
mighty cables that nothing but Omnipotence could break; and yet my
love of Country comes over me like a strong wind and bears me
unresistibly on with all those chains to the battlefield.

The memories of the blissful moments I have spent with you come
creeping over me, and I feel most gratified to God and to you that
I have enjoyed them so long.  And hard it is for me to give them up
and burn to ashes the hopes of future years, when God willing, we
might still have lived and loved together, and seen our sons grown
up to honorable manhood, around us.  I have, I know, but few small
claims upon Divine Providence, but something whispers to me--
perhaps it is the wafted prayer of my little Edgar, that I shall
return to my loved ones unharmed.  If I do not dear Sarah, never
forget how much I love you, and when my last breath escapes me on
the battle field, it will whisper your name.  Forgive my many
faults, and the pains I have caused you.  How thoughtless and
foolish I have often been!  How gladly would I wash out with my
tears every little spot upon your happiness...

But, O Sarah, if the dead can come back to this earth and flit
unseen around those they loved, I shall always be near you; in the
gladdest days and in the darkest nights...always, always, and if
there be a soft breeze upon your cheek, it shall be my breath, as
the cool air fans your throbbing temple, it shall be my spirit
passing by.  Sarah do not mourn me dead; think I am gone and wait
for thee, for we shall meet again.
                                  ---from the opening episode
                                     of "The Civil War" PBS
                                     series @ 1990.

[Postscript:  Major Sullivan Ballou of the 2nd Rhode Island
Infantry was killed at the first battle of Bull Run on the 21st of
July, 1861.]
From: buckley@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (BUCKLEY  CHARLES RAY)
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Re: Ironclads (was Re: News of the World)
Keywords: Ironclad, warships, _Monitor_, _Virginia_
Date: 6 Oct 92 06:26:14 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1992Sep24.213635.25620@leland.Stanford.EDU> whale@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen Schmidt) writes:
>My memory of it:
>
>The British and French ships were the first ironclad ships. The Virginia
>and Monitor were the first two to see combat: France and England weren't
>at war with anyone.
>Foote's boats had iron armor but it was partial, not complete. I think this
>is why they're not counted as ironclads.
>This is all from memory, flame away if I'm wrong... :)
>-- 
{.sig del}

I have a reference of a ship called Fulton the First built in 1814. It was
constructed by Robert Fulton for the defence of New York in the War of 1812.
It is discribed as ironclad and double hulled, armed with a few gigantic guns
to quote the author. The rference is called A Country Made by War by 
Geofferey Perret. ISBN 0-394-55398-5. It is a very good book and recommend that
everyone should read it.

Charles Buckley
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: COWAN@ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu (Paul L. Cowan)
Subject: Re: Ironclads (was Re: News of the World)
Organization: CALIFORNIANS ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 15:36:41 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

In <1992Sep25.182648.11674@leland.Stanford.EDU> whale@leland.Stanford.EDU 
Steve Schmidt (SS) writes:

SS In article <1992Sep25.161453.12683@midway.uchicago.educjt1@midway.uchicago.edu 
SS Chuck Ten Brink (CTB) writes:

CTB Forgive a minor correction, but this sounds as though the US Navy was 
CTB building the Virginia as an ironclad.  I believe that the Merrimac was
                                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^
CTB under construction as a conventional wooden craft; imperfectly scuttled
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
CTB when the shipyard was captured by Confederate troops, it was raised,
CTB redesigned and fitted with armor, and rechristened the CSS Virginia.

SS Forgive a minor correction to a minor correction :) but the Merrimack
                                                               ^^^^^^^^^
SS was burned. One of the major worries the CSA had was that she might have
   ^^^^^^^^^^
SS too much timber damage from the burning to take the weight of the iron
SS armor.
>-- 
SS Steve Schmidt		<><		   whale@leland.stanford.edu

Forgive a minor correction to Steve's minor correction of Chuck's minor
correction (oh boy), but the _Merrimac_ was "imperfectly scuttled"
*AND* burned. Ironically, scuttling the ship served to save it from
worse destruction by flames.

A second minor correction to Chuck's minor correction, The _Merrimac_
was *NOT* under construction, but was in the shipyard for refitting.
She was in fact the sister ship of the _Minnesota_ and the _Roanoke_
lying off Fort Monroe, and was at Gosport because her steam engine
had been "condemned". The _CSS_Virginia's_ slow speed and sluggish
maneuverability can be at least partially blamed on the fact that,
(to quote Shelby Foote) "her wheezy, antiquated engines ... had
scarcely been improved by the fire and the months of immersion."

Sorry to quibble on such minor points, but Steve Schmidt and Chuck Ten
Brink are so rarely inaccurate on even the smallest of matters, I
couldn't resist the opportunity to correct them both (however
slightly) in one reply. ;-)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
P. L. Cowan     Please send replies, comments etc. (no flames thank you) to 
COWAN@ANL.GOV  (I'm posting from my own account, but not the preferred one)
        "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is a War Room!"
from _Dr._Strangelove_or:_How_I_Learned_to_Stop_Worrying_and_Love_the_Bomb_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mujel@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Ranger)
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Re: Reenactment
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:12:18 GMT
Organization: Educational Computing Network

In article <1992Sep14.201926.23365@odin.corp.sgi.com> zursch@whizkid.wpd.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide) writes:
>In article <1992Sep14.132622.1@cc.uvcc.edu>, jeromema@cc.uvcc.edu writes:
>>I would be interested in which units, and what types of activities are
>>available for the less able-bodied reenactors who wear the sky-blue
>>shell jacket.
>
>My guess would be that such a person should simply join a regular fighting 
>unit, or perhaps the hospital corps. (if they wish to portray a recuperating 
>soldier). It depends what they want to do. A person without one or more limbs
>or with other disabilities would certainly not have been an unusual thing to see 
>in a field army. I would also imagine that such a person could do whatever they
>saw fit to do as part of their impression.  I could easily work many fighting posts in my
>artillery unit if I lost an arm, and someone could be, for example, an adjutant or
>some other non-combat post if they felt they couldn't or didn't want to be in the
>actual fighting. 
>
>There are several examples of actual people who stayed in service after being "disabled"
>in some way or another. You generally only hear about the officers, though. The
>ones who were hoisted in the saddle and strapped in, etc etc etc.
>
>I say, Go for it. 
>
>JZ  

There was a unit known as the Invalid Corps that used disabled soldiers.
From: jthoppers@OCTAVO
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Re: Artillery Question
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:25:51 GMT
Reply-To: jthoppers@OCTAVO

regarding exploding shells:
Shrapnel was invented in 1784. It consisted of a hollow shell filled with 
powder and shot ball (the caliber varied), and a fuse. The length of the 
fuse determined the time from firing to shellburst.
Exploding shells, which were hollow shells filled with powder only and a 
fuse, were in use at an earlier date (I don't have a year), so may have 
been available in 1757.
JTHoppers
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: COWAN@ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu (Paul L. Cowan)
Subject: Pope = Bishop Polk? (was Re: butternut)
Organization: CALIFORNIANS ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:19:51 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

In <1992Sep28.154341.29746@news.iastate.edu> pholland@iastate.edu writes:

:  As for confusion, General Pope personally took a Union officer (colonel?) 
:  prisoner at Perryville.  The man came right up to Pope thinking he was 
:  addressing a Union officer.  Pope narrowly escaped capture or death shortly
:  afterwards when he ran into a Union force thinking it was Confederate.
:  
:  Paul Hollander    pholland@iastate.edu

In <009614C7.75E6B620@OCTAVO> jthoppers@OCTAVO writes:

::  regarding "General Pope":
::  I'm confused. Pope was a union officer. I can understand why some union 
::  troops might want to shoot at him, but I don't think that mistaken 
::  identity could be used as their defense. Sarcastically yours,
::  JTHoppers


I overlooked this mistake entirely. In the context of the message I read "Pope"
to mean "Bishop" Polk. Is that correct?


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
P. L. Cowan     Please send replies, comments etc. (no flames thank you) to 
COWAN@ANL.GOV  (I'm posting from my own account, but not the preferred one)
        "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is a War Room!"
from _Dr._Strangelove_or:_How_I_Learned_to_Stop_Worrying_and_Love_the_Bomb_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: cjt1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Charles Ten Brink)
Subject: Re: reenactments
Reply-To: cjt1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:41:19 GMT

In article <009617D5.F0B70EC0@OCTAVO> jthoppers@OCTAVO writes:
>I have posted announcements for Civil War reenactments in the past, and 
>have seen other postings by others. Before I post any further 
>announcements I wanted to check with my fellow readers to make sure that 
>this was generally acceptable (there were several critical responses 
>previously). Any votes, yeah or nay?

I enjoy hearing about them, even if I cannot attend as often as I would
like.  As for critical responses, try to accept them as the price we all 
pay for freedom of expression.  "Life is short - sin bravely."
--Chuck "It's Friday and I'm counting the minutes 'til the pub opens"
Ten Brink



-- 
D'Angelo Law Library         "The dogmas of the quiet past are
cjt1@midway.uchicago.edu      inadequate to the stormy present. . .
uclcjt1@uchimvs1              We must disenthrall ourselves. . ."
From: mujel@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Ranger)
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Re: Poetic License (was Re: Reenactment)
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:14:33 GMT
Organization: Educational Computing Network

In article <14SEP199222262078@vxcrna.cern.ch> casper@vxcrna.cern.ch (CASPER,DAVI./PPE) writes:
>In article <2925477496.6.p00098@mail.psi.net>, p00098@mail.psi.net (Jones M Murphy Jr) writes...
>>>For those of you in North/Central California:
>>>There will be a Reenactment event on Saturday, Sept. 12 and Sunday 
>>>Sept. 13, in Nevada City, California.  [...]
>> 
>>Perhaps some Africans will be whipped and lynched, to add realism?
>>Jones
>
>Well ah, gee Jones, are you volunteering?
>
>
>Dave
>

I've seen slaves at re-enactments, and I've heard of one where a slave
got a good whippin'.
From: jsanders@phys.ksu.edu (Justin M. Sanders)
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Re: Artillery Question
Date: 6 Oct 1992 05:44:35 GMT
Organization: Department of Physics, Kansas State University, Manhattan KS, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bohr.phys.ksu.edu

Here is what my trusty 11th ed, Encyclopaedia Brittanica (1910) has to
say on "Ammunition":

1. (solid) shot was principally of stone, originally, or iron darts.  By
   the end of the 16th century, most shot was iron.
2. Case, or cannister, shot consists of a sheet iron container filled with
   small shot.  In the early days the case was sometimes a wooden cask
   or simply cloth binding up the shot.  Used since the early part of the
   15th century.
3. Grape shot was generally 3 tiers of cast-iron balls separated by iron
   plates and held in place by a bolt running down the center. [There are
   some pictures of grape and quilted shot in Miller's Photographic 
   History, Forts and Artillery volume].
4. Quilted shot was small shot covered in canvass and wrapped up by a 
   rope.
5. Chain shot consisted of two balls connected by a chain.  This spun 
   around and was used to damage the rigging of sailing ships.
6. Red-hot shot (shot heated red hot before firing) was invented in 1579,
   used in naval warfare to set ships afire.
7. Common shell was used primarily as a material destructor (i.e. not 
   anti-personnel).
   It came into general use in the latter part of the 16th century.  The
   early shells were hollow stones or iron balls partially filled with
   powder and the remaining space with some slow-burning substance as a
   fuse.  Cast iron was the material of choice until the more powerful
   guns of the latter 1800's tended to put too much stress on it.

So the bottom line is that all the above types of ammunition had been
known for about 300 years prior to the Civil War and for 200 prior to
the French & Indian War (which had prompted this thread).  The only
really new ammunition which one would have seen in the Civil War were
the projectiles for rifled guns.

--
Justin M. Sanders    "The science of mathematics has no more 
Dept. of Physics       bowels of mercy than has a cast-iron dog." 
Kansas State Univ.      --Rep. John A. Anderson of Kansas, 1882
From: russw@cs.utexas.edu (Russ Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Re: reenactments
Date: 3 Oct 1992 00:11:58 -0500
Organization: Great Northern Hotel
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

I think it's good to post reenactment announcements.  (And announcements
of other events like conferences, book sales, whatever else.)  A few of
the recent ones have been a bit long-winded and "glossy", as if written
for general public tourists instead of people who actually know about
the Civil War, but I guess that's ok.

My only complaint is that I haven't seen announcements for any events
near Austin... :-)

R
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: pholland@iastate.edu (Paul J Hollander)
Subject: Re: butternut
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:38:15 GMT

In article <009614C7.75E6B620@OCTAVO> jthoppers@OCTAVO writes:
>regarding "General Pope":
>I'm confused. Pope was a union officer. I can understand why some union 
>troops might want to shoot at him, but I don't think that mistaken 
>identity could be used as their defense. Sarcastically yours,
>JTHoppers

Oops.  My mistake.  General Polk.  Confederate general and bishop.

Paul Hollander    pholland@iastate.edu
Behold the tortoise: he makes no progress unless he sticks his neck out.

Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa