HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu
Subject: Re: Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 04:12:20 GMT

In article <92Aug29.025449.16130@acs.ucalgary.ca>, bauwens@acs.ucalgary.ca (Luc Bauwens) writes:
> In article <1992Aug28.145518.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:
>>Does anybody know if it is possible to establish "beyond a reasonable
>>doubt" if Fabrikant sent the e-messages?  I was talking to a law prof
>>here in Indiana, (the law may well be different in Canada) and he said
>>that while the prosecution may try and use the e-mail to establish
>>premeditation, the defence may be able to say that there is no way to
>>prove that Fabrikant actually sent them (forgery, etc.)
>  
> What's the point?  He is defending himself, and I can't see him
> denying the very thing he wants to say...    That stuff *is* his 
> 'defence'...
> 
>>[...]  (I am a journalism student.  Send >all flames to the NY Times.)
> 
> So that's why you are indulging in this uninformed speculation,
> irrelevant and unrelated to the case, right :-)?

Uninformed speculation, eh?  So _you_ know what his defence will be?
Anyway it was just a question.  Unscrew the sphincter a couple of turns, Luc.

Thomas 
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: gerard@caliban.soest.hawaii.edu (Gerard Fryer)
Subject: Re: Concordia killings
Organization: Scum Of the Earth and Senile Tenured
Distribution: sci.research.careers
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 00:36:04 GMT

In article <aqh-PWA@engin.umich.edu>, rasmussn@engin.umich.edu (Craig E Rasmussen) writes:
|> <stuff deleted>
|> 
|> I think I can almost safely say that few full
|> professors in my field have the time to do much research.  They spend most of
|> their time teaching, serving on commitees, writing proposals, reviewing papers
|> and proposals, going to meetings, and directing the research of others. 
|>

Then, of course, there are those of us non-tenurable scum who get only
a fraction of a faculty position, spend most of our time teaching,
serving on commitees (sic), writing proposals, reviewing papers and
proposals, going to meetings, and directing the research of others, but
have zero job security and have to scrape for soft-money salary
justified only by that 30% (ha!) of time available to do research.
-- 
Gerard Fryer  (g.fryer@soest.hawaii.edu)
School of Ocean & Earth Science & Technology
University of Hawaii at Manoa
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: joslyn@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Cliff Joslyn)
Subject: Re: Do the police have Fabrikant's postings?
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 01:09:46 GMT

orpheus@reed.edu (P. Hawthorne) writes:

>Do the police have copies of his
>recent posts here? I mean, are we sure that they've been handed over?

Other issues concern possible evidence that might exist on his
accounts, personal email dialogs he might have had w/people over the
last few months, etc. It's likely that there are threats or veiled
threats in them. A police investigator might actually USE the net to
collect such information (e.g. mailing lists kept by Fabrikant). Are
there any interesting issues here regarding the legal frontier of
computer communications?  Any active CPSR people listening in?

O----------------------------------------------------------------------------->
| Cliff Joslyn, Cybernetician at Large, 327 Spring St #2 Portland ME 04102 USA
| Systems Science, SUNY Binghamton      NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
| cjoslyn@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu    joslyn@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov
V All the world is biscuit shaped. . .
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: nico@athena.mit.edu (Nicolas Reinecke)
Subject: Shootings
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:10:30 GMT


This is an article I just picked up from one of the canada newsgroups:



Article: 5208 of clari.canada.newscast
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (SBN)
Newsgroups: clari.canada.newscast
Subject: Newscast of the hour (23-26) Aug 26 10 pm EDT
Keywords: canadian broadcast
Date: 27 Aug 92 02:26:50 GMT

	
	-26-&
	
	(Shootings)+
	A computer sleuth may be called in to help solve Monday's triple-
murder at Montreal's Concordia University. John Jessen runs a Seattle
firm called ``Electronics Evidence Discovery''.
	The firm specializes in finding computer files in out-of-the-way
places. Jessen told a Victoria radio station he's been contacted by a
Montreal reporter about a certain aspect of the case. 
	The suspect in the case, Valery Fabrikant, is said to have sent
lengthy computer messages over the university's computer system. Jessen
says early memos may provide a clue to the case.
	Jessen says some messages may have been taken out of the memory bank
of Fabrikant's computer, but may have been transferred elsewhere. Jessen
says he knows how to find them. (23)
From: Dave Koert
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Other violence against academicians (was Re: Concordia killings
Date: 27 Aug 92 19:03:18 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Drexel Univ., Dept. of Mechanical Engr.

In article <aqh-PWA@engin.umich.edu> rasmussn@engin.umich.edu (Craig E
Rasmussen) writes:
>The very sad news from Concordia is becoming all too common...


Very recently (Tuesday 8/25?) an article in the Philadelphia Inquirer told of
a break-in at the residence of Chang L. Tien, Chancellor, Berkeley.  If I
remember correctly, the intruder was characterized as a female *radical*,
was carrying a hunting knife and machete, and was mortally wounded by the
police.

Does anyone know more about this?

What were *her* motives?

My feeling is:  call them crazy, call them radicals, say they have their 
reasons -- a small number of people seem to lose all perspective due to
the miriad of pressures and difficulties that present themselves, and lash
out violently.

It would be more than nice if we could help ... them ... one another ...



David N. Koert                     | (Disgruntler)
Mechanical Engr. & Mechanics Dept. | 
Drexel University                  |   "Nuke the unborn, gay whale"
David.Koert@cbis.ECE.Drexel.EDU    |       bumper sticker seen in RI, 1983
From: marie@paris.erg.sri.com (Marie desJardins)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Second Undergraduate Degree, or transitional master's
Date: 27 Aug 92 00:43:16 GMT
Reply-To: marie@paris.erg.sri.com (Marie desJardins)
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, CA

In article <1992Aug26.161539.2935@unocal.com>, stgprao@st.unocal.COM
(Richard Ottolini) writes:
|>I did not plan my
|>extra 120 units wisely and ended up with cultural enrichment rather than a
|>second degree.

I disagree -- if you were culturally enriched, you were far wiser than somebody
else who got another bachelor's degree but no breadth.

I finished my undergraduate requirements (in engineering/computer science at
Harvard) in 3 years, and stayed the fourth year.  I studied music,
French, political
science, philosophy, and women's studies.  I think I'm a lot more
marketable than
if I had gotten a second degree in, say, applied math.  Why?  Because
I'm a well-
rounded, well-read person with a lot to say about a lot of different
areas of life,
not somebody who thinks that getting five bachelor's degrees is a useful
pursuit.
In my (admittedly limited) experience, most employers would prefer to hire a 
technically competent, well-rounded individual than a technically
slightly-more-
competent person with narrow interests (and more degrees than they know
what to do
with).

(And if an employer *wouldn't* prefer to hire such a person, well, I
probably wouldn't
prefer to work for them, so that works out nicely. :-)

However, I think that this issue is somewhat off the original question, which
was about whether it's worth getting a second bachelor's sometime after
the first,
to prepare for a career move into a *very* different field (e.g.,
journalism into
biophysics).  Here, I agree with various earlier posters who said that you're 
probably better off applying to a master's program (perhaps after taking enough
courses on your own to convince the admissions committee of your
seriousness, and
your ability to succeed in the field).

UC Berkeley, by the way, has a re-entry program specifically designed
for women and
minorities who want to pursue graduate studies in computer science, but
don't have
the background.  The students in this program take one or two years of
courses and
then apply to Berkeley's graduate program and/or graduate programs at
other schools.

Marie desJardins
marie@erg.sri.com
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Concordia Deaths
From: (Lisa Nixon)
Date: 26 Aug 92 10:18:11 +0900
Followup-To: sci.research.careers
Distribution: world
Organization: NTU

I just wanted to express my sorrow at what has happened at my alma mater. 
I knew Mike Hogben through work at Human Resources at Concordia University.
 Tragedies like this shouldn't happen.  

Lisa Nixon
BA Con U '91
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers,sci.psychology
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Other violence against academicians (was Re: Concordia killings
Followup-To: sci.psychology
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 23:16:20 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <1992Aug27.190318.8549@netnews.noc.drexel.edu> Dave Koert writes:
>>The very sad news from Concordia is becoming all too common...
>
>Very recently (Tuesday 8/25?) an article in the Philadelphia Inquirer told of
>a break-in at the residence of Chang L. Tien, Chancellor, Berkeley.  If I
>remember correctly, the intruder was characterized as a female *radical*,
>was carrying a hunting knife and machete, and was mortally wounded by the
>police.
>
>Does anyone know more about this?

People in Berkeley can tell you more.
Basically,
1) she was NOT a student.  So this has nothing to do with careers or research.

>What were *her* motives?

2) She was one of the major activitists protesting the Berkeley People's Park
being turned into Volleyball courts.  This has been the scene of numerous
demonstrations over the decades.
3) She was a self-proclaimed activitist and "radical" at age 19.
Enough so that she changed he name to Rosebud DeNovo.
4) She is claimed to have a history of problems but was bright.

The SJ Merc reports she was part of a previously unknown organization
whose plans included a take over of Washington DC, the Pentagon and the
theft of nuclear weapons.

>My feeling is:  call them crazy, call them radicals, say they have their 
>reasons -- a small number of people seem to lose all perspective due to
>the miriad of pressures and difficulties that present themselves, and lash
>out violently.
>It would be more than nice if we could help ... them ... one another ...

It reported that she broken into the home via a blow torch around 6 AM.
A campus poice officer found her, but she ran further into the house.
She had time to phone a friend from the house before being found.
She was located by an Oakland canine (had a dog) police officer just after
7 AM and repeated swung the machete and knife.  At was at this point
the officer decided his life was at threat and fired three times.
She had a note on her person statign that one had to be willing to
die for their beliefs.

Follow-ups to the appropriate group.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: orpheus@reed.edu (P. Hawthorne)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Do the police have Fabrikant's postings?
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:19:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Aug25.211931.12120
Distribution: na
Organization: Reed College, Portland OR

The events that have unfolded before us are stunning, and I would prefer to
get over the ersatz trauma of having followed the thread to it's horrible
conclusion, but I feel compelled to ask: Do the police have copies of his
recent posts here? I mean, are we sure that they've been handed over?

Bizarre. News is an abstract involvement in an untangible world, an almost
prosthetic existence with little or no impact on physical reality. To have
seen the posts the Fabrikant made before us all, followed by such physical
and evil acts, is really disturbing. 

I sided with him, totally. I believed his evidence. Now that I hear what
he's done... Should we have done something right away, like notifying some
authority, after seeing the parts of the posts where he talks about fearing
for his life and being willing to die? I'd really like to get my mind off
the subject, but it's a sticky one.


Theus (orpheus@reed.edu)
From: ljhr@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Job Hunting
Date: 30 Aug 92 16:29:43 GMT

I'm looking for a position in entomology/parasitology/invertebrate
zoology in the western PA-eastern OH-northern WV-western VA area.
I will be available in one year (Aug/Sep 1993).  Will consider
university, college, state, federal, county, city positions.  CV
& reprints AOR.  Specialties medical-veterinary entomology &
descriptive-functional morphology of aquatic fly larvae.
From: blake@milton.u.washington.edu (Blake Hannaford)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Halt harrasment, lawyer urged Fabrikant in 1983.....
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:25:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: milton.blake.715375500
Organization: University of Washington

alexa@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Alexander Anger) writes:

>These lawsuit actions by Fabrikant against the world speak much about
>his character.  I have had to change my opinions about the man quite
>a bit since the original postings forwarded by "Dov".  Fabrikant seems

 ...



>On Fabrikant's prolific literature, one almost gets the impression from
>reading the abstracts that he was as good at squeezing papers out of
>related topics as the best administrator.  Although interesting in
>their own right as intellectual tomes, the description of the problems
>leaves one wondering if any ME who ever built a real structure could
>make use of them.

Another recent posting which is quite revealing in this regard is taht
of someone who did a computer literature search on Fab.  There were 
indeed many papers, but all were single authored by Fabrikant.  THis
is inconsistent to say the least with what seemed to be his main 
greivance - that his adminstrators forced him to include them as
authors even though they knew nothing of the work. ... why don`t
they show up on the printout???

THis whole thing has been a very revealing look at the internet phenomenon.
It seems that each medium has its own affect on the message.  In this
case people saw some selective and highly crafted documents which are
ideally transmitted by USENET and which made what seemed like a 
compelling case to some.  In contrast the reality of his truely
barbarous actions seemed relatively *less* vivid when merely typed 
in from CNN etc!

Blake Hannaford
U. of Washington
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Concordia shootings
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 06:26:56 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.035456.25427@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca>
rob@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Robert Robson) writes:
>All of us would like to know the true story and this would be a
>great opportunity for some investigative journalism.

Not to color this post with opportunism, it would be useful if a
Montreal resident could follow this story and if possible attend Fabrikant's
arrainment and trial.  It must be followed closely.

John Markoff of the New York Times is aware of these events.

This is history.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Fabrikant and Concordia ME's response
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:01:56 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <1992Sep2.003122.11730@unislc.uucp> erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes:
>gordon e. banks (geb@dsl.pitt.edu) wrote:
>
>: I don't know about Canada, but here they would not have any
>: standing in court to have him committed against his will.
>
>Again, Gordon shows what he does not know <sigh>.  In the USA, anyone can
>get a court order committing anyone for (I think the time period is) 72
>hours for psych ob., providing they have enough evidence, (depositions,
>sworn testimony by known reliable persons, etc.).  What country *do* you
>live in, Gordon?

I challenge this.  Please document it.  Any state will do (none of
this has anything to do with the federal government here).  If anyone
should have done this, it would seem to have been the judge in the
legal case that Fabrikant was pressing.  Presumably he had the same
access to the paranoid writings as we did.  I think putting the onus
on his employer to try to get him committed is quite silly.
Can you document any cases of employers having employees committed?

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Fabrikant did not post to sci.research.careers
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 22:06:42 GMT

In paper mail, the author of a letter or the author's estate, owns the copyright
of the letter.  This has torpedoed more than one biographer who wanted to
print correspondence excerpts.  I don't know if this has been tested in other
media like email or videos.  I don't know what the Canadian precedent is.
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: zukicn@wl.aecl.ca
Subject: COMPUTER MODELLER - R&D
Organization: AECL RESEARCH
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:03:40 GMT

I am posting this for my manager & branch. Do NOT send your resumes, 
inquiries, etc. to me, as it all has to go through the Human
Resources and the person listed below. Our phone is: (204) 753-2311. 

Thank you,

Nermin Zukic

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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        conditions.  Immediate work involves the development of
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        various experiments, and the comparison of the actual
        experimental results with the predictions.

        An advanced degree in Mechanical, Chemical or Nuclear
        Engineering, Applied Mathematics, or Physics is preferred,
        although a bachelors degree with high academic standing and
        relevant experience in research will also be considered.  

        A strong background in heat transfer and scientific
        programming is essential.  Additional background in fluid
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        The Whiteshell Laboratories is located at Pinawa, an
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  INTERESTED?    Contact A. Portman
                 AECL Research
                 Whiteshell Laboratories
                 Pinawa, Manitoba
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Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: eog@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Vicki Finkenstadt)
Subject: Concordia events
Keywords: Fabrikant, Fraud, Concordia,
Organization: Purdue University
Distribution: w
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:37:52 GMT

This has been a very disturbing event. Tragic.
I'm sure the readers who have been following this posting are
all concerned and quite curious about the situation that led
up to yesterday's events.
Can anyone provide a summary of Fabrikant's position and 
Concordia Administration's position?

Xref: sparky sci.research.careers:931 alt.grad-student.tenured:43
From: peterson@CS.ColoState.EDU (james peterson)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers,alt.grad-student.tenured
Subject: Re: Second Undergraduate Degree, or transitional master's
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:55:21 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Sep1.231630.8453@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> boaz@lcs.mit.edu writes:
>In article <Aug26.205011.59158@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, peterson@CS.ColoState.EDU (james peterson) writes:
>
>|> There are two ways of earning a second bachelor's degree: simultaneously 
>|> with the first degree, or after the first degree is earned. In either case,
>|> the requirements for a second degree usually consist simply in fulfilling
>|> whatever requirements are not covered by work completed for the first degree
>
>Not exactly. In case the two degrees are closely related (e.g., BS in
>Electrical Eng. or BS in Computer Eng. in my alma mater), you'll be 
>required (for the second degree) to take at least a certain amount of credit 
>above what was taken for the first (else I could have gotten two degrees
>with the effort of one, provided I picked the appropriate courses).
>

I stand by my statement.  Residency requirements for a degree (which is
what you are here discussing) are still requirements.

james sends

-- 
james lee peterson				peterson@CS.ColoState.edu
dept. of computer science                       
colorado state university		"Some ignorance is invincible."
ft. collins, colorado  (voice:303/491-7137; fax:303/491-6639)