From: etxansk@garbo.ericsson.se
Subject: Re: Any Commodore users buying the Falcon in Germany?
Originator: etxansk@garbod20
Organization: Ericsson
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 13:39:09 GMT

cadwallader@forty2.enet.dec.com () writes:

>>>>Anyone owning an Amiga considering the Falcon 030 over there?
>>>>
>>>No..why ?
>>
>> Sigh. Because it's obviously better than the Amiga, and perhaps
>>computer hobbyists in Europe aren't as impressed by the PC clones
>>as they are in the US.
>
>Why would Amiga users go back to a bits-in-a-box /|\? We'll wait for AA
>which promises to be a much nicer solution than Falcon (quelle surprise!).
>Falcon has attempted to address Amiga-strengths in typical /|\ style,
>e.g. poor-man's overscan, ("snap-to-one-size" only), still no excellent
>copper type device (the REAL crux of the Amiga IMO, what makes ALL the
>diff).

 I've seen this technique (assuming that copper type device means
a graphics coprocessor with its own instruction list) in the Atari 800
and in the Amiga. Both systems were quite popular and the Amiga still
is, but they never made it to the top. The fairly simple C64 proved
to be _the_ 8-bit computer, and the Amiga can't compete with the PC. Atari
will probably make advanced 680x0 technology affordable once again, only
that this time they'll have better graphics and sound specs (for
the time of release). There's still no established PC graphics standard
that supports advanced animation.

 I don't think the Falcon will survive in the US. Is there a US release
date planned? 

>Falcon is "tomorrow's ST", why pitch it against "today's Amiga".Wait for
>AA machines then decide which is best :-).

 Because it's available now. On the other hand, I didn't know Commodore
were planning something spectacular. I thought they were going to
get the few bucks they deserve out of the European low-end market 
while they wait for increasing competition. Are they really working on
an improvement as good as the Falcon? Do you think it'll become a
saleable item? 

> [stuff about what C= AA chips will be like deleted]
>Amigas are flexible, powerful, graphics tools that have
>had inherent flexibility from day 1, they just go on improving (albeit
>in leaps rather than smoothly :-) ),

 I can't wait to see these wonderful products at my local dealer. Not
that Commodore can be accused for announcing too much vapourware, but just
how good is the new AA thing going to be?

> where /|\s are boxes full of junk
>bits added on addhoc (look at STe). Falcon is primarily, ST + STe bits
>+ new modes + DSP.... a big, big kludge!

 Yes, there are kludges. The MS-DOS' 640K barrier is a kludge. Atari's
backwards compatibility features with their new chips form a big
kludge. I just can't see why the Amiga won't suffer from this? Look
at the DSP. Do you think it's going to make the Falcon worse? What new
features will be in Commodores monster?

>> [stuff deleted]
>>
>> I suppose Len is referring to the fact that the Atari ST line
>>has been outselling the Amiga for many years in Europe. Unfortunately
>>they didn't get a new product ready in time to keep down the
>>Amiga during its entire life cycle. 
> 
>Do I believe I read this right? Even in the UK, just about THE primary
>ST market, STs USED TO outsell Amigas 10-1 (when A500s were 573). Now
>you find 1/5 of the ST software that is available for Amiga, STs are
>almost gone from all high-street stores, noone wants to know.... 

 Sorry, I think it's my problem with the English language. I did
indeed try to point out that Atari _used_to_ outsell the Amiga. They
still have a big market share (a big user base), but sales are extremely
poor.

>Forget the US in calculations, stupid meatheads who like PCs and Macs on
>the whole... BUT you really can't be saying that the ST still outsells the
>Amiga! Wake up!

 PCs aren't boring any longer, and they're affordable, but they can't
do good animation, that's why I prefer true video games consoles for
gaming. I wish Atari could have released this beast (the Falcon)
as a console instead.

 Unfortunately the big bucks are where the "meatheads" live.

>Another thing I believe CBM don't get credit for is support (really!).
>Look at Apple, terrible, 5 different OS's needed to run all soft, new
>machines every other week bringing new problems... When I had my ST it
>had a single sided floppy (ho-ho). /|\ upgrade without telling anyone
>to double sided, no upgrade path, no recompense. They upgrade TOS, no
>upgrade path, LOADS of incompatibility. They bring out STe in packs
>without telling anyone, no upgrade path... get the idea, how can they
>keep shitting on their users like that? You could have a 4 year old 1.2
>Amiga 500 and now run the newest OS 2.04, you can trade it in for a CDTV,
>you could upgrade your machine to a new Agnus and ECS... etc... running
>a bit thin now to keep a 4 year old machine up with the pack, but at least
>we weren't left out in the cold!

 I agree it wasn't easy to upgrade the first ST computers, and the current
STFM/STEs have no expansion slots for new cards. Isn't that a problem
with both Commodore and Atari computers? The A500 and ST computers offer
nothing like the PC/AT expansion slot.

> [stuff deleted] 

>Finally (yawn), remember that market image is hardest to regain, /|\ are
>just about dead in US, at least CBM have *some* respect there, in Europe
>/|\ are failing badly, in UK they are almost withered and dead.

 Non-PC home computers seem dead in the US. Perhaps CBM have some respect,
but I doubt the Amiga has. That computer too should've been improved and
turned into a video game.

> [stuff deleted]
 
>Falcon could well be THE most risky machine you'll ever buy!

 Look who's talking. The Amiga 1000's future didn't look too bright
either. (On the other hand, it didn't get along very well. Har har.)

 Anders Skelander
 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy