From: ahmed%bailey@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Islam Preaching Equality
Date: 17 Dec 1992 13:05:54 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rio.cs.yale.edu

In article <1992Dec16.191806.8222@news.nd.edu>, milind@agni.cc.nd.edu
(Milind Sa
raph) writes:
> From: ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed)
> > The critic of Islam will argue further than Islam permits beating
> > women.  .....
>
> [stuff deleted]
>
> > While there are many arguments on whether the word ``beat'' is
really an
> > appropriate translation, one need not point to that in setting the
> > critic straight.  Capital punishment is not a foreign concept to
> > Islam.  In fact, many punishments in Islam are physical in nature.
>
> So the critic of Islam is right.  Islam does permit beating wives,
> although lightly.

If you would care to actually *read* the above passage, you will find
that I state:

1) There is no unanimous opinion on whether the word "beat" is really
a proper translation

2) The question of capital punishment is something which applies to
*everyone* in Islam, not just women

3) In the case of women, if we do translate the word "beat" to be a
proper interpretation, it is qualified by the word "lightly"

From this we can conclude that it is not clear whether beating wives
is allowed, and that if it is, it is certainly not a form of
discrimination directed at them.  The critic is wrong.

> > Then there is always the most common stereotype and misconception,
> > namely that regarding polygyny.  The Qur'an is quite clear in
> > specifying the stringent conditions under which it may be
permissible:
>
> > It is quite clear from the above that the polygyny allowance is
purely
> > for humanitarian reasons.  The ``if'' clause above distinctly
states
> > that the question of polygyny only arises when there are orphans
to
> > take care of.
>
> and then later...
>
> > Since this is obviously very difficult to
> > do, and the Qur'an mentions this in the same sura (see 4:129), it
> > follows that polygyny can only occur under the most exceptional
> > circumstances.
>
> In a discussion on this issue, you said that the Sura 4:129
overrides
> 4:3.  Ms Rukhsana Merchant posted the following from the Quran.
>
> ****
>          "If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly
>          with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two, or
three,
>          or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal
>          justly (with them), then (marry) only one..." (Qur'an 4:3)
 ... (1)
>
>          "You are never able to be fair and just as between women
>          even if it is your ardent desire...."  (Qur'an 4:129)
 ... (2)
> ****
>
> Sura 4:129 seems to rule out polygamy unambiguously.  It seems
polygamy
> is not "very difficult" but impossible.  If I recall correctly, you
> said that polygamy may be allowed for men with multiple wives
converting
> to Islam.

You recall correctly.  Hence the use of the word "difficult" in this
context.  I don't see an inconsistency.

> > Needless to say, this line of reasoning fails to take into
> > account the complex social situations under which polygyny is
> > permitted -- it is obviously not something for everyone.  But it
also
> > fails to take into account the problem of infinite family chains.
If
> > polyandry were also permitted, it is very easy to show
mathematically
> > that one could end up with infinite family chains.  Given the
> > importance that Islam places on family structure, the problems of
this
> > are obvious.
>
> I am curious about mathematical demonstration of the problem of
infinite
> family chains.  Can you post the analysis or some reference for
this?

Obviously, my use of the word "infinite" here is as a term of
superlatives.  You cannot get an infinite chain when you have a finite
number of people.  But it is mathematically very obvious that you can
get arbitrarily large family chains which completely ruins the concept
of family structure which Islam considers important.

-- Shakil

Xref: sparky soc.culture.bangladesh:6782 soc.culture.indian:41012 soc.culture.pakistan:18275