HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: joshua salter <jsalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Point or Random Systems, What about both?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:13:12 GMT


	It seems to me that there should be systems which are designed for
either point or random roll attributes, as each has it's merits. I myself am
designing one such game at this moment, (and several previous moments). The
game is called Realms, (someone please tell me if that has been used before), 
and it's main goals are: realistic combat, (which so far seems successful from
the playtesting I've done); cool magic, (choose out of three magic systems:
the glib D&D style, the sophisticated Ars Magica style, or MY style); real, not
bogus, skill system, (skills costed and classified as such: Raw skills, Easy,
Medium, Hard, V. Hard); decent campaign ideas, (exists in separate planes, w/
few recommended, play whatever you want); & intelligent character attributes,
(yeah, yeah, you've heard that before).
	I am not so blinded by my pride, however, to realize that my syst. does
have some flaws: lack of real experience gain system, & no filler, (some pers-
ons like this).
	Oh well, just another game against the wash of RPG's...

								-jsalter

		"Massmorph Stone? Where d'you get that?"
		"These things come in handy all the time..."
		"WAAAAARGH!"
From: ward1@husc8.harvard.edu (Lester Ward)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SR: T2?
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:06:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc8.ward1.711738389

dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly) writes:


>	Has anyone out there come up with some good home grown
>	rules for making robots? I was wondering 'cause we 
>	kicked around the idea of how much trouble a 
>	Terminator would cause the average SRun group. 

There was an old Traveller Supplement on robots which was way cool.
In depth, but easy.  "Book 8: Robots" or something.

>	Axly

Wordman
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: ward1@husc8.harvard.edu (Lester Ward)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SRUN: New Technology, New Ideas-
Keywords: Shadowrun, SR, SRUN, SHADOWRUN
Date: 24 Jul 92 22:44:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc8.ward1.712017843

rmongr@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Krishgan) writes:
>- Vehicle Control C-Square Cyberdeck (VCCD)

>  Cost          : Level X 1,500 Nuyen
>  Essence       : Level X .1
>  Placement     : Headware
>  Requirements  : Communications Suite

The only problem I have with this (very useful) peice of cyberware is that
it is 20 times cheaper than a normal remote control deck.  While normal
remote decks are pretty cheap, remote decks that allow the normal Vehicle
Control Rig bonuses or 25K per level.  (That is in the Rigger Black Book,
on the Remote control Deck entry).

I'd devide it into VCR/non-VCR compatible versions (like normal remote
Keywords: Shadowrun, SR, SRUN, SHADOWRUN

warmongr@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Krishgan) writes:
>- Vehicle Control C-Square Cyberdeck (VCCD)

>  Cost          : Level X 1,500 Nuyen
>  Essence       : Level X .1
>  Placement     : Headware
>  Requirements  : Communications Suite

The only problem I have with this (very useful) peice of cyberware is that
it is 20 times cheaper than a normal remote control deck.  While normal
remote decks are pretty cheap, remote decks that allow the normal Vehicle
Control Rig bonuses or 25K per level.  (That is in the Rigger Black Book,
on the Remote control Deck entry).

I'd devide it into VCR/non-VCR compatible versions (like normal remote
decks) and make the VCR one double essence and 30 times cost.


>- Interface Module     (Cybernetic Implantation)
>  The above mentioned cost is related to highest MPCP's of each deck the
>  user will be able to interconnect with.  This setup allows for the second,
>  that is the C-Square's memory and operational procedures to NOT incur against
>  the Load Rating of a node.

I like the restrictions on this one, but for the last line above.  The only
way to make memory not effect Load is if it is off-line (ie. not in active
memory and therefore unusable).

Also, you want want to require that one set of persona be turned off.  Hmm,
if that, this would be a good way to use stolen decks.  Just take the persona
chips out....  Well, I guess the MPCP would have to stay.  Oh well.

>- Reality Filter       (Cybernetic Implantation)

For normal decks, the Filter is part of the MPCP chip.  Having a seperate
chips opens some interesting possibilties, like swapping them.

>- Satellite Uplink     (Cybernetic Implantation)
Where's the dish?  Simple anntena are not going to get the needed bandwidth,
esp. if moving/inside/underground.  Maybe a  head plug to a dish?

Wordman
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly)
Subject: Re: Cyberpunk (was: SR: SRII combat mods)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 21:30:04 GMT

goodwin@orionsci (Ben Goodwin) writes:

>Hum, lets not forget concentration or specialization or whatever.
>1+2+3 gets you to level 3 with a predator or whatever.  I can see wasting
>6 karma points to become competent on the street with a pistol.

Level 3 with a Predator yield maybe one hit with a 6M2 weapon. Gee,
that's going to keep me off the decker's back..*grin*

>And the question that needs answering is, does your decker always tag
>along with the sams?  What if he goes out alone one night, to go to
>a club or something, and someone decides they want to get even or
>somesuch.  "Gee, I don't know how to use a pistol."

He runs. Having a gun makes one think one should stand and fight, when
in all honesty, you are outclassed. No gun lends wings to ones feet
in time of need.

>In that book 2XS there was a decker that lived in her apartment and never
>came out.  She spent every point on skills.  If that's your decker fine.
>No gun skills are needed.  But if you're going to step into the street you
>had better have some combat ability just to survive biker gangs and other
>people who see you as an easy mark.  God, if I was going to make a career
>of pissing powerful people off, I would make sure to spend a few days
>getting acquainted with mr. firearm!

Why? THe people I may piss off will hire people who can kick my butt 
whether I am Firearms 6 or not. Better to be just damn good enough with
that deck to keep from pissing them off in the first place, which means
spending Karma on decking skills and saving it to prevent those
bad rolls when they occur.                

Besides, if I don't know how to shoot, I stay out of combat. If the decker
doesn't know how to shoot, he will advocate noncombat planning. This is
a good balance against the combatmonger ideology of most SR players.
He will want to do things without all the blood and thunder of the 
Samurai (or is that Thud and Blunder, Render?)

Axly

********************************************************************************
*   Axly      *  "Is Axly tough? Yes. Talented? Yes. Brave? Oh, certainly.     *
* Red Sword   *   He is also erratic, irresponsible, accident-prone, and a     *
*   Targa     *   constant threat to public safety. The trick is to keep him   *
*             *   pointed in the right direction. "                            *
*             *         -Niki                                                  *
********************************************************************************
From: speno@clam.rutgers.edu (speno)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Dangerous Journeys
Date: 26 Jul 92 17:33:50 GMT
Organization: M.U.G.A.R.
In-reply-to: Patrick_Andrew_Barnes@cup.portal.com's message of 26 Jul 92 08:59:03 GMT



With Mental, Physical and Spirit, this game has attracted my
attention. Could you tell us more about the system including player
attributes, task resolution system and any other details. What is the
cost of the Magic Sourcebook?

Thanks.
--
========================+======================================================
John P. Speno		| Rutgers Camden is now the Internet Aquarium. Machines
-> Corvus <-            | are: clam, crab, flounder, guppy, marlin, monkfish, 
speno@clam.rutgers.edu	| piranha, and shark and it's not even fully stocked.
========================+======================================================
VOTE FOR REN & STIMPY -- THE HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY TICKET -- REN & STIMPY IN '92!
From: coult@julia.geom.umn.edu (Nicholas Coult)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Anyone Heard of Rifts
Date: 29 Jul 92 19:37:38 GMT
Organization: Geometry Center, University of Minnesota

Ummm, about this whole Rifts issue: it seems that lots of people don't like
the mass-destruction capabilities of mega-damage weapons because it makes
the characters too powerful (or something like that).  My GM's version of the Rifts world has a nice way of handling this.

Most big cities in the Rifts world don't allow mega-damage armor/weapons in.
Entrants to the city are _required_ to deposit their armor/weapons in the
armory, where they will be watched over by the militia (for a fee, of course).
This isn't that much of a hassle for the militia since most of the entrants
to a city don't have such equipment anyway.

Anyone caught with MDC weapons/armor inside the city is thrown in jail and
their stuff is confiscated.  Sneaking stuff in might be possible if
its a small laser pistol or something, but power armor isn't exactly
stealthy.  Forcing your way in would accomplish nothing if all you want
to do is go into town for a bite to eat and a place to stay.

More often than not, however, the "bad guys" usually DO have MDC weapons 
in the city.  This makes for quite a challenge.

There are other issues I would like to address about Rifts, but I'll
stop taking up your time now.
--
Nick Coult internet: coult@geom.umn.edu  or  coultn@carleton.edu
From: paul@sco.COM (Paul Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Champions
Date: 27 Jul 92 16:38:32 GMT
Organization: SCO Canada, Inc.

In article <1992Jul24.232414.525@news.columbia.edu> jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim) writes:
>silber@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ami A. Silberman) writes:
>>A couple of comments. First, skills still cost too much. If one has three
>>INT skills, its cheaper to buy up INT rather than the skills. 
>
>	Not true. +1 to all INT skills costs 5pts, the same as INT. You 
>might want to adjust this to 4pts, but for heroic games I think it is 
>fine. 

+5 to INT, costs 5 points. Now, subtract 1 from all perception rolls (-3),
for a net cost of 2 points to increase all skills by one (I actually fell
into this point hose by accident, I was designing a superheroic character who
was incredibly bright but quite easily distracted, hence I bought down my
perception from the stratospheric levels where my INT (33ish, I believe) had
put it).

>>Another comment. The armor and body given to inanimate objects is far too
>>low. 
>
>	I don't think so. I think the armor DEF values are a little inflated, 
>actually. The problem is that BODY damage works for single blows, but multiple 
>blows are too effective on high-BODY objects. This is because BODY (like just 
>about everything else in Champions) works on a exponential scale. 

For items yes, but not for people ("normal" adult people probably range from
at least from a body of 7 through body of 13, which means that a large burly
person is 64 times the size of a small petite person.
From: jacobus@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Best Super system
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:48:33 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1992Jul22.161755.25460@news.columbia.edu> jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim) writes:
>	The other thing to be careful of is cost ratios. For example, 
>damage generally costs 6pts per d6, whereas defense is 3pts per 1DR. This 
>means that attacks will tend to overwhelm defenses. Pair up a bunch of 


In order to flesh this out a bit more, it costs six points to have a die
of damage, but it costs 9 points to be able to, on average, bounce that
die.  In other words, DR by the book is THREE times as expensive as any
attack power.  Why is this ratio chosen over those which might be more
favorable to a character??

In Champions, the ratio is either four-fifths of cost of an attack (for
normal dice) or somewhere between four-fifths and three-fifths cost
of an attack (for killing dice) for a defense to be able to, on average,
withstand the damage.  In GURPS Supers the ratio is THREE TO ONE of cost
for a defense to withstand an attack.  To be blunt, it is orders of magnitude
cheaper for a character to have a second-chance vest than to purchase the
equivalent DR with reduction for reduced coverage, especially if any
sort of bonded resin Kevlar inserts are added.  Hells Bells!  Even taking
into account encumbrance, etc., it is FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR better for a
GURPS Supers character to take the "20th-century full plate" (from GURPS
High-Tech) than to buy the equivalent DR and PD using Supers costs.


As I've said before, good ideas, but the system is still too broken to use.
From: a_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Best Super system
Date: 23 Jul 92 22:27:41 CST
Distribution: na
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1992Jul23.135009.19129@news.columbia.edu>, jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim) writes:
> 
> 	I am not complaining about a number, I am complaining about *lots* 
> of numbers. I agree that most of my complaints about Supers are not too 
> difficult to solve - but they are very numerous. 
> 
> 	I'm not saying the system is 'inherently flawed' or anything like 
> that - it's just that it is alot of work to implement and balance. 

	I would be very intrested in hearing about your problems.

	With regards to extra hit points, long before I bought Supers,
I used extra hit points both above and below 0; that is, a creature with HT
12/20 started making death rolls at -20 (rolling against the 12). Although
Supers runs this differently, I decided to remain consistant with how I had run
things in the past.

Brandon Cope
From: acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur C. Adams)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Mr. Fantastic in Champions
Date: 28 Jul 92 21:28:07 GMT
Organization: The Great Beyond

In article <1992Jul28.181500.27754@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> aq061@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Scott Devine) writes:
>
>I have been trying to convert my favorite Marvel characters into the more
>detailed game of Champions but I ran into some trouble with Mr. Fantastic
>and his unstable molecules.  I don't know how I should set it up, if any
>of you know a way please post or send me mail.  Thank you.

You have hit upon one of the toughest characters to convert to Champions.
I'm just going to give suggestions, rather than point totals, since
I don't know how many points you want to play with.

Stretching is obvious.

I'd also buy Desolidification, to simulate slipping through cracks and holes.
I'd limit it as follows: -1/2 to keep him from going through completely
solid objects. (That's from the rules, though you might want to increase it
more to simulate the fact a reasonable hole is required.) I'd also allow
being affected by attacks, that should be worth a minus two. The power
should be pretty cheap then. 

Physical damage reduction at 75% would be needed to simulate the resilient
body. Energy damage reduction would not be appropriate; a laser would
effect him as much as anyone. 

Maybe some super-running to simulate making huge steps.

I'd also add some shape-shifting, to allow stretching the body into simple
objects. This would be limited also, since he still resembles himself. In
other words, its not a disguise technique.

And, though this isn't part of the stretching powers, he gets a humongous
variable power pool for his gadgets. Along with that goes a huge
INT score.

-- 
The world is not analog. The world is digital,
with an incredible number of bits.
Arthur C. Adams (not the comic-book artist)                        <fnord>
E-Mail acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil
From: mmadsen@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Matt Madsen)
Subject: Re: New Name for Flesh Golem wanted!
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Reply-To: mmadsen@ics.uci.edu (Matt Madsen)
Organization: Univ. of Calif., Irvine, Info. & Computer Sci. Dept.
Date: 29 Jul 92 02:50:32 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.203214.1668@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> ericg@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (E. Chris Garrison) writes:

>The "19th century creation" is Frankenstein, by Mary Shelley.  Her
>Frankenstein was an artificial human somehow brought to life from
>dead body parts sewn together and imbued with chemicals and so
>on.  The work is often considered the very first true science
>fiction novel, because she was extrapolating from Voltaire's (I think)
>discovery that dead tissue moves as if alive when electric current is
>applied.

Actually, and this is an interesting but silly point, nowhere is it mentioned
that Frankenstein's monster was composed of dead body parts.  Nowhere!  After
reading the story, almost anyone (who's seen the movies, etc.) would _swear_
that it mentioned the monster being composed of dead body parts, but that's
just not the case!

The story _does_ mention Victor Frankenstein studying decomposing bodies to
determine the difference between life and death, but for all we know, the
monster was made out of legos. :^)

>The "Flesh Golem" in the AD&Dv1 rules is described just like that, and the
>picture in the Monster Manual looks remarkably like the modern movie
>Frankenstein appears.
>
>As far as I know, your bit about the legend is correct, but "Gollum"
>from J.R.R. Tolkien has nothing to do with it, he was just a wizened,
>Ring-warped old Hobbit-kin.

I'm pretty sure the golem is a monster of Hebrew legend.  (Actually, I just
checked my dictionary, and it _is_!)  In Jewish legend, the golem was a man
artificially created by cabalistic rites.  A story I recall involves a
sorcerer of some kind creating a servant out of clay.  He asks too much of
the golem and it eventually kills him.  (Typical story, really lame.)

>Eric
>--
>------
>E. Chris Garrison			      Computing Services Support Center
>ericg@ucs.indiana.edu			      Indiana University

Any more questions?

Matt Madsen
mmadsen@ics.uci.edu
From: ward1@husc8.harvard.edu (Lester Ward)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SRUN: New totems request.
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:22:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc8.ward1.711998545

mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner) writes:
>I find totems more interesting if they aren't straightforwardly good or
>evil.

Exactly.  Ever seen a snake feed?

>Mary Kuhner mkkuhner@genetics.washington.edu

Wordman
From: speno@clam.rutgers.edu (speno)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Where if FGU now?
Date: 28 Jul 92 01:21:00 GMT
Distribution: rec.games.frp,rec.games.misc
Organization: M.U.G.A.R.


Could anyone give me information on what happened to Fantasy Games
Unlimited? Does anyone know if the creators of Space Opera have
started anything new in the game world?

--
========================+======================================================
John P. Speno		| Rutgers Camden is now the Internet Aquarium. Machines
-> Corvus <-            | are: clam, crab, flounder, guppy, marlin, monkfish, 
speno@clam.rutgers.edu	| piranha, and shark and it's not even fully stocked.
========================+======================================================
VOTE FOR REN & STIMPY -- THE HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY TICKET -- REN & STIMPY IN '92!
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SRUN: Toning down mages
From: ward1@husc8.harvard.edu (Lester Ward)
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:48:47 GMT

chem7l@jane.uh.edu writes:

>In article <ward1.712333221@husc8>, ward1@husc8.harvard.edu (Lester Ward) writes...
>>chem7l@elroy.uh.edu writes:
>>>First, I treat any item or effect (including Quickening) that a mage has put 
>>>karma into as a suitable link for ritual magic.
>> 
>>Then why bother Quickening?  If I can pay 1 karma point to lock a spell

>Several reasons:  First, spell locks are always considered force 1 and always
>do 1L1 damage in astral combat.  Quickened spells can be any force, and the 
>damage in astral combat is the same as for the spell: force(drain code).  
>Second, spells CAN ground into a spell lock, which can be REALLY nasty.  Lastly,
>a mage can quicken astral barriers, etc. to protect his own home.  Quickening
>spells in controlled locations would not really leave you vulnerable to ritual
>magic.

The force 1 point is a good one, and well taken, but how often have you seen
it matter if a foci was force 1 or force 4?  Usually there being attacked
by hideously strong elementals (at least in the campaign I'm in); also,
not many mages would put 4 points of karma into something so transitory
(although, your milage may vary).

I'm a bit confused on the "spells CAN ground into a spell lock".  The emphasis
used would indicate that they can't ground through quickened spells (which
by the rules is correct), but I thought the point you were driving at in
the first post (quoted above) is that you could ground through quickened
spells, in your rules variant.  If by "suitable link for ritual magic" that
it would be .only. ritual magic (interesting trick) than I have no problem
with it.

>>>Second, I consider any sustained spell to be astrally active, and therefor  
>>>vulnerable in astral space. 
>> 
>>The rules do to.
>>

>Really?  I couldn't find it...

I'll see if I can find it.  It is possible that I just inferred this.  I've
always taken the line that "spells look like living things in astral space"
as a guide.  If it, in fact, is not in the book, it should be.  There is
.no. reason why this should not be true.

>I use the astral combat rules in the Grimoire, which (if I remember correctly)
>say that spells cannot be used against other spells in astral combat; they 
>ignore each other. 

Hmm.  Now that I think about it, you're probably right.  Sorry.

>I think I like the idea of turning foci on and off.  I think I'll use it.

>>Yes, and they also make it much easier to mix astral and non-astral actions,
>>as far a timing goes (meaning that astral and normal combat use the same
>>initiative and action phases).

>I have been playing this way...  I never realized that the rules said anything
>different. <shrug>

As I recal, there is something about when astral and normal combat mix in
SRI, you are supposed to do all astral actions first (unless players choose
to delay actions).  I dunno, we never used them.

>Jim Corbit

Wordman

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: coult@julia.geom.umn.edu (Nicholas Coult)
Subject: Rifts + Body-Fixer OCC
Organization: Geometry Center, University of Minnesota
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:21:24 GMT

I'm an avid Rifts fan, and I recently made a Body-Fixer.  Firstly,
I must say that the Body-Fixer O.C.C. gets _lots_ of skill!  By the time
I got to secondary skill selections, I was really stretching to come up with
good ones.  Also, I noticed that "Medical Doctor +10%" is one of the OCC skills,
but "Medical (any) +15%" is under OCC related skills.  This means that you
could theoretically choose "M.D. Cybernetics" and have a higher skill
rating in that area than in the Medical Doctor skill!  I realize that
a body-fixer is in general opposed to unecessary cybernetic augmentation,
but it doesn't specifically say that a body-fixer could not take the M.D. Cybernetics skill.  What do all you (all too few) rifts-players and G.M.'s think
about this?

(I rolled an 11 for psionics, so i took Psychis Diagnosis as one of his 
abilities - quite the combination! Body-fixers have a great potential, I think).
--
Nick Coult internet: coult@geom.umn.edu  or  coultn@carleton.edu