HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: colombo@bronco.fnal.gov
Subject: Re: Tow chains or slings?
Organization: Fermilab Computing Division
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:53:47 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.115432.27931@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>, jschafer@purch.Columbia.NCR.COM () writes:
> I just took delivery of my new 4X4 sport utility vehicle. I want to
> get a chain or nylon tow strap to use to pull somebody out of a ditch
> if necessary.
> 
> What's the net concensus? Is a chain better than a nylon tow strap?
> What are the pro's and con's of each? Where's the best place to buy
> either? 

Don't bother with a chain, you'll rip someone's bumper off (who, me? :-)
A nylon *snatch* strap is the way to go, get one as big as you can afford.

> 
> Care to offer any advice on extraction techniques?

You'll need tow hooks and rap it around the frame of the other vehicle.
Straps have eyelets, so rap it around the frame and though the eyelet.
Then drive away quickly to *snatch* them out.  Of course you need to be
prudent when doing this.  Usually, your tow hooks and the location of
places to attach to the frame are towards one side of the vehicle.  This
will cause the vehicles to canter to one side, rather than move in a
straight line, so I attach the strap to the same side (say right) which
appears to be the opposite side when the vehicles are facing each other.

 ___________________________________________________________________________
 *****  *   *  From the e-net desk of: Rick Colombo CD/DCD/DSG    *    *
 *      **  *  Fermi Nat'l Acc'l Lab   708-840-8225 Fermilab     * *   *
 ***    * * *  P.O. Box 500   MS 369   Feynman Computer Center  *****  *
 *      *  **  Batavia, Ill. USA 60510 Colombo@fnal.fnal.gov    *   *  *****
 *    Of course I speak for: Fermilab, Congress and the President... NOT!!!
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: ross@tarski.tmc.edu (David Ross)
Subject: Re: The Italian Job
Organization: University of Hawaii Mathematics Department
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:46:50 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.171750.9513@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> jern@visual1.jhuapl.edu (Bob Jernigan) writes:


>I just read in Autoweek that Rover has produced a Mini in honor
>of the 25th anniversary of _The Italian Job_. 

I always assumed these were Innocentis, not Minis.  (An Innocenti
is basically a Mini with an engine on steroids.)  

- David

--
David Ross, Dept. of Math., Univ. of Hawaii at Manoa, Honolulu HI  96822
Internet: ross@math.hawaii.edu  -or- ross@tarski.math.hawaii.edu
Phone: 808-956-9949
From: exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (Patrick Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Car-to-car contact at high speeds
Date: 14 Dec 92 23:57:00 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

In article <p6#r8h-@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
>tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen) writes:

>>In article <-#h2caq@rpi.edu> kaminl@aix.rpi.edu (Matt Garretson) writes:
>>>   Suppose I'm going along in the left lane maybe 70mph, and a car to my
>>>right starts to come into my lane where I already am (i.e. to bump into
>>>my right side). There is no shoulder to the left to swerve into safely-
>>>only a guardrail (or oncoming traffic! :( ).  
>>>a situation like this? I know there are many variables, but any
>>>comments would be appreciated.

>>if you're driving a callaway sledgehammer corvette, stomp the gas.
>>if you're driving a more mundane car, hit the brakes.
>>the tailgaters are going to have to take care of themselves.
>>countersteering after contact has been made is a good idea, but
>>it's better to get your car out of the immediate vicinity.  if he's
>>moving into your lane, it's probably because you're in his blind
>>spot (which means your car will be further back than his).  it takes
>>only a fraction of a second of hard braking to put your car behind his.

>This is really dumb advice.  Neither accelerating nor braking will
>get you out of the way of a lane changer in time.  

>To answer the question, situations vary of course, but assuming a quick 
>toot on the horn does not stop the move, the safest thing to do is to 
>steer INTO the oncoming vehicle.  This is about the first thing you 
>learn when you set wheel on a stock car track.  The object is to balance
>the forces so you both stay headed in the same direction.  Better 
>a bit of bent sheet metal than one of you spinning or going over the guard
>rail. 

This is really dumb advice (where have I heard that before).

If this guy didn't see you, he's probably in front of you.  Hitting him 
intentionally on his rear quarter panel is going to cause an oversteer
effect and he will turn even harder into you, possibly even lose control, 
especially if road conditions are not ideal.  

Worst case is that he will end up sideways dead in front of you.

 ----------------------!!! H A P P Y   H O L I D A Y S !!!-------------------
 ObQuotes:
 "Igornance and prejudice, confident their ways are best..."
 "Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand..."

  - Patrick Taylor, Ericsson Network Systems
    exuptr@exu.ericsson.se                    "Don't let the .se fool you"
    Visit the SOUNDING BOARD BBS 214-596-2915, a Wildcat! BBS
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: schludermann@sscvx1.ssc.gov
Subject: Re: "3-band" Radar
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:11:42 GMT

In article <BzCJ5v.Buy@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, dpape@imlab (Daniel X Pape) writes:
> Sorry about this.. this seemed like the most appropriate rec.autos.* group.
> 
> Anyone know a mail order source for good CHEAP 3-band radar detectors. 
> I'm trying to find one for my girlfriend and want to avoid speending $300
> at some retail stores I have been too.
> 
> Thanks for any help.
> 
> Happy Holidays!
> 
> Dan Pape
> 
    
Call damark at 1800 729 9000

I just ordered a uniden wide band for $139 & a Cobra laser detector piggyback
for $79. They also carry bell & escort.

kris


Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: seanr@lobo.rmhs.colorado.edu (Sean Reifschneider)
Subject: Re: Snow and 4x4's
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:45:43 GMT
Organization: Rocky Mountain High School, Fort Collins, CO

In article <1g89reINN31b@gilligan.East.Sun.COM> mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.144049.7860@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> jern@visual1.jhuapl.edu (Bob Jernigan) writes:
>#
>#Well it's happening again.  Today we are having our first
>#snow of the year and the 4x4's are crashing, along with the
>
>I guess they're stupid enough to let that easy takeoff
>lull them into thinking it can brake, steer, etc. just
>as well. It kind of amazes me, but I guess they don't
>give it a thought, until it's too late. I just hope

Well, now that I have a 4WD, it amazes me that people think that 4WDs CAN'T
stop any quicker than 2WDs.  A friend of mine didn't believe it until we went
out and I slammed on the brakes in 4WD, then sped up to the same speed and
slammed on the brakes in 2WD and we slid about twice as far.  4WDs DO stop
quicker unless you're on PURE ICE.

Why is this?  Well, first lets consider that the average person doesn't have
ABS or a brake proportioning valve that they can adjust from the cockpit.  Most
brakes are set up so that the front wheels have much more braking power sent
to them than the backs (because there's more weight transfered there during
braking).  On ice, the fronts will lock up before the backs really grab.

Now, lock the front and back end together.  When the front brakes grab, they're
also slowing the rear wheels.  Since all wheels will try more to go the same
speed instead of just the fronts, you have much more slowing power.  That's why
*I* think they stop so much quicker under most conditions.

Now, as for steering, you have much the same things going for you, especially if
you compare 4WD to rear wheel drive.  You just don't spin, and I find it much
more easy to keep in control then even front wheel drive.  Every year I go out
into a parking lot at 3am or so to get my snow driving skills back, and the 4WD
is HARD to get to spin.

If I'm taking a corner and hit the gas, the turn just widens.  No spins, and not
as much wider as you get in a FWD.

Sean
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,misc.legal
From: whs70@dancer.cc.bellcore.com (sohl,william h)
Subject: Re: Cars, tape recorders, and the police...
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 13:36:31 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.234752.6508@wam.umd.edu> kckbxr@next09wor.wam.umd.edu (Robin Hood) writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.212408.19697@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu>  
>john@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Romanski) writes:
>> I remember seeing sonething on a documentary about police cruisers being  
>built with video cameras built in to the roof console (on the inside of  
>the car) so    that the traffic stops can be videotaped.
>> 
>> I think that police are doing this for there own protection, physical,  
>as well   as legal.
>
>In one of my CJUS classes, the entire class viewed a videotape (I think it  
>was taken by the Georgia State Police Dept.) showing a car chase, a  
>drunk-driving situation, a few traffic stops, a shooting of a police  
>officer, and a drug possession in a car trunk situation.  These were  
>definately valuable situations in which a videotape would be incredibly  
>valuable for prosecutions, but it can be dangerous for situations in which  
>something occurs out of the range of the camera (i.e. behind the police  
>car or to its side).  Videotaping would definately help crime control, but  
>it may infringe on an individual's due process rights.  I think that if  
>police were granted the right to videotape a suspect, a suspect should be 
>granted the equal opportunity/right to videotape as well.  

The police do have the right to videotape as far as I know.  It is done
all the time in many jurisdictions, especially with DWI cases.  The use
of the videotapes as evidence may sometimes be questioned or
challenged, but I've never heard of any challenge to the basic
practice itself.  That being the case, I don't think it is
correct to say "If the police were granted..." since they have had
that "right" all the time and have been videotaping unchallenged for 
several years.  I also agree that any citizen has an automatic right
to "wire" himself, his car, his home (with some exceptions to 
recording of telephone conversations in some states),
etc. for recording purposes
and is under no penalty of law for doing so.  Again, doing the
recording is (IMHO) totally within the bounds of legality (though
many can argue the ethical aspects of doing such recording), though
the resulting recording may or may not be admissable as 
evidence for a specific case.   Hey, remember the Nixon tapes?

Standard Disclaimer- Any opinions, etc. are mine and NOT my employer's.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Sohl (K2UNK) BELLCORE (Bell Communications Research, Inc.)
Morristown, NJ             email via UUCP      bcr!cc!whs70
201-829-2879 Weekdays      email via Internet  whs70@cc.bellcore.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: oyalcin@IASTATE.EDU (Onur Yalcin)
Subject: Re: Car-to-car contact at high speeds
Reply-To: oyalcin@IASTATE.EDU (Onur Yalcin)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:53:50 GMT

In article <_bj2+ak@rpi.edu>, kaminl@rebecca.its.rpi.edu (Matt Garretson)
writes:
> Thanks to everyone who responded to my question. There was some disagreement,
> but it seemed like that stemmed mainly from my failure to clearly define the
> situation.
>
> ...
> 
> -Matt
> 

With this article Matt kind of ended the discussion that had started with his
preceding article. I just want to write about such a case that I witnessed about
a couple of years ago. It was very surprising for me at that time, actually it
still is. 

I was in the Istanbul peripheral in the passenger side of a car driven by my
friend. From 5:00P to 8:30 P this peripheral (called "ring" or cevreyolu) is
very crowded with cars, trucks and buses. It is 4 lanes (+ 2 Emergency ) in most
parts, but  you can see up to 6 cars going side by side at times. Some of them
would be half in one lane and half in another. It is chaotic. And the speed
reaches 120 km/h everyone tailgating eachother. In average 3 persons die because
of traffic accidents in Istanbul in one day.

We were on the left lane and watched the car infrot of us, in the middle lane,
suddenly jerk to the left to avoid a mini-bus stepping into its lane. There was
another car in the leftmost lane that tried to steer away (to the left) to avoid
hitting this car. I did not see its brake lights go on. The cars drove very
close for a few meters shoulder to shoulder until a certain point where the RR
of the car on the left lane touched the FL of this other car. Normally we were
expecting them to stop, and we would probably stop with them and wait for the
police to come as we were witnesses to this accident. But no one stopped, their
desires to get their tired asses home as soon as possible must have prevailed. 

During their contact, none of the cars actually lost control of the steering,
and all this must have happened at around 100 km/h (almost 65 mph).

--
Onur Yalcin 
oyalcin@iastate.edu

"Serefe"
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Car-to-car contact at high speeds
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems
Distribution: usa 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:25:45 GMT

In <1gif6jINNhgr@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:

>kaminl@rebecca.its.rpi.edu (Matt Garretson) writes:
>>PS- What would be the implications of being rear-ended on the highway at
>>high speed? Someone said it wouldn't be too bad (relatively speaking). But
>>I'm sure that my car would stall in such a case. Might this cause other
>>problems?

>I'd be very surprised to see your car stall.  There are two obvious

Well, my Probe has an impact switch on the electric gas pump that is
supposed to switch it off after a certain impact. I just hit the
pump with the side of my fist when I changed the fuel filter (lets
the engine stall and removes pressure from the lines).

Funny thing was that when I was rear ended by a Honda, it didn't
stop the pump. Hmm, guess I have a heavy fist :-/.


>ramifications: 1) loss of rear wheel contact (will cause lateral
>instability and easy oversteer situations); and 2) induced lateral
>vector.  The combination could cause sudden oversteer, particularly if
>the car behind is turning to avoid contact.  If you're braking hard
>this could conceivably put you in a spin.

>You'd have to get hit pretty hard to induce these kinds of effects
>though.  I suspect you'd just get pushed forward.

>jim frost
>jimf@centerline.com

Bob.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: colombo@bronco.fnal.gov
Subject: Re: "3-band" Radar
Organization: Fermilab Computing Division
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:13:35 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.141142.1@sscvx1.ssc.gov>, schludermann@sscvx1.ssc.gov writes:
> In article <BzCJ5v.Buy@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, dpape@imlab (Daniel X Pape) writes:
>> Sorry about this.. this seemed like the most appropriate rec.autos.* group.
>> 
>> Anyone know a mail order source for good CHEAP 3-band radar detectors. 
>> I'm trying to find one for my girlfriend and want to avoid speending $300
>> at some retail stores I have been too.
>> 
>> Thanks for any help.
>> 
>> Happy Holidays!
>> 
>> Dan Pape
>> 
>     
> Call damark at 1800 729 9000
> 
> I just ordered a uniden wide band for $139 & a Cobra laser detector piggyback
> for $79. They also carry bell & escort.
> 

I saw a 3-band for $65 at Walmart, a Uniden I think.
I'm gonna get it myself, if Santa doesn't.

-- 
 ___________________________________________________________________________
 *****  *   *  From the e-net desk of: Rick Colombo CD/DCD/DSG    *    *
 *      **  *  Fermi Nat'l Acc'l Lab   708-840-8225 Fermilab     * *   *
 ***    * * *  P.O. Box 500   MS 369   Feynman Computer Center  *****  *
 *      *  **  Batavia, Ill. USA 60510 Colombo@fnal.fnal.gov    *   *  *****
 *    Of course I speak for: Fermilab, Congress and the President... NOT!!!
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Real Life?!?! HA!!)
Subject: Re: overcompensating steering
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 07:13:13 GMT

winders@aux.support.apple.com (Scott Winders) writes:

>In article <1g89e5INN538@uwm.edu>, danno@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Daniel Gary
>Soiney) wrote:
>> 
>> the 356 uses a swing axle rear suspension which will cause the oversteer you
>> describe.  what happens is the body rolls and th erear wheels try to tuck under the chassis, causing sudden oversteer  no real fix for it except to be careful and aware of the handling characteristics

>Actually, the swing axle design is not the cause but it does
>make the oversteer more severe.  The main problem is the rear
>bias in the weight distribution.  The 911 also has significant
>oversteer and it does not have a swing axle rear suspension.

Well, that's not entirely the case.  The 911 has, in place of swing axles,
semi-trailing arms.  Semi-trailing arm rear suspension is almost as bad as
swing axles in terms of oversteer, but is somewhat less prone to rolling over.
My 1969 BMW just loves to oversteer, and its weight is biased toward the front.
But the rearward weight bias WOULD induce oversteer with just about any kind of
suspension; the swing-axle and semi-trailing arm designs only add to it.
$0.02
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael T. Chaffee        | mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu  |  ______    
                                                       |  \    /   HATE
"I chased a rainbow down a one-way street.  Dead end." |   \  /  is not a
     - S. P. McCall                                    |    \/  FAMILY VALUE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Calling CAA for a jump start
Date: 16 Dec 92 04:04:36 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1giuo6INNne2@gap.caltech.edu> hacker@cco.caltech.edu (Jonathan Bruce Hacker) writes:
>
>I have never been able to successfully jump start my manual gearbox
>fule-injected Supra.  It seems that to just run the fuel pump and
>injectors takes a healthy battery.

By contrast, my old Tercel would actually work just fine with the
battery disconnected, once it was started.

-- 
Matthew T. Russotto	russotto@eng.umd.edu	russotto@wam.umd.edu
Some news readers expect "Disclaimer:" here.
Just say NO to police searches and seizures.  Make them use force.
(not responsible for bodily harm resulting from following above advice)
From: leonglaw@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com (Lawrence LEONG)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Police Intimidation
Date: 15 Dec 92 01:14:26 GMT
Organization: HP Singapore

In rec.autos.driving, jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera) writes:

| {Funny story deleted in which the son of an L.A. (Lower Alabama) judge
| gets questionably stopped and illegally searched in the bad part of town}
|
| Much as I hate to say it, there is a certain amount of logic to this.
| One of the ways the cops try to stick their finger in the proverbial
| dike in The Bad Part of Town (tm) is to hassle people who don't look
| as though they belong there, on the assumption that they are coming 
| in to buy drugs.  They are trying to fire a shot across the bows of
| suburban brats using the poor folks' neighborhood as an open-air drug 
| market and maybe getting ripped off or even killed for dabbling in a 
| game they don't understand with people they underestimate.  And, of
| course, while they're at it they'll also hassle anybody who fits a
| dealer or courier profile.
|
| Racist and otherwise stereotypical. Yes.  Constitutionally questionable?
| Sure.  Hard on innocent motorists just passing through?  Definitely.
| Effective?  I don't know.  It's a philosophical throwback to an outmoded 
| era of policing that was based on ideas of who did and didn't belong in 
| a given area and whether people looked as though they were up to no good. 
|
| Be warned:  a lot of conservative people are nostalgic for that attitude, 
| abuses and all.  If you got busted there (even on bogus charges), local
| of people would sure run their mouths about the judge's no-account son
| who was on dope.  These stories can start despite complete innocence and
| grow in the telling until you're an honorary member of Pablo Escobar's
| posse -- one look at the papers will tell you that a scion of a prominent 
| family gone bad is an irresistible story, true or not.

"Land of the free"?  Scenario sounds like out of "My Cousin Vinny".  Watch it
for this, and how a NY girl with an attitude takes on a southern court.
Funny!

lawrence
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Car-to-car contact at high speeds
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems
Distribution: na 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:51:30 GMT

In <lis2dpINNjcs@spim.mti.sgi.com> plisner@mips.com (Peter Lisner) writes:

>[Some of Doug's stuff deleted]
>>
>>Recommendations.  Don't stay in blind spots.  Look at the situation of the other
>>car.  Does he need to change lanes?  Chances are, you can tell when someone is 
>>about to change lanes.  Either give them enough room to squeeze in (just in case)
>>or keep your front bumper in his view.  Horns work great too.  If you are going to
>>hit, probably better to get hit in the back (straight in the back).  You can take
>>a pretty good shot in the back without much fuss, even at speed. Have you seen
>>a SCCA Showroom Stock Race?
>>
>>---
>>Doug Christensen    SCCA SSB Scirocco 16V
>>doug_christensen@pts.mot.com
>>     _____
>>   _/_|__|\__
>>  | _ |61| _ \
>> <-(_)----(_)-^       "When I'm racing, I'm alive.  Everthing else
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^    is just waiting."  Steve McQueen, Le Mans.

>I think these are good ideas. But what really bothers me is the fact that
>so many people don't use their turn signals for lane changes. If they did, I'm
>sure a lot of these kinds of situations could be avoided. 

>Is it because people aren't taught to signal for lane changes when they learn
>to drive, or do some people just think it is too much trouble to move one hand
>a couple of inches to flick a lever ?

When I first moved here to Maryland/Virginia, I wondered the same thing.
Then I found out why they don't signal, because everytime I did the
idiots would speed up and close the space I was trying to get into.

When folks signal to me, I let them in whenever possible, in hopes
that courtesy is contagious. But it seems they have all had their
shots :-(.


>I apologize in advance if my gripe has already been beaten to death in this group.




>All opinions are mine, not SGI's.
>-- 
>Peter Lisner                    
>e-mail: plisner@mti.sgi.com
>phone : (415)390-4419
>Silicon Graphics Computer Systems

Bob.