HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson)
Subject: Re: The Term "Biracial"
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 00:07:55 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.235250.12603@cgrg.ohio-state.edu> demetri@cgrg.ohio-state.edu  writes:
>To Mr. Jackson:
>
>Amazing!  I put time and effort into explaining our beliefs about our
>child's identity and still got back the same line "Well, your child will be
>seen as Black and therefore is Black".  You completely ignored everything I
>said.  How interesting that you, as an African American, would tell me that
>I should accept a less than accurate label for my child because "that's how
>White America sees him".  If your ancestors thought that way, you would not
>be at a major university having this discussion.  But since I now see that
>you will not even afford me the minimal respect of *acknowledging* my
>arguments, I will leave you to your opinions and turn my attention to
>raising a proudly BIRACIAL child.  Ciao.
>                              Renee
Renee,
     I don't care what you call your child ! The facts still remain that
if your child looks like an African American then that's what your child
will be labeled as. Right or wrong that's the way it is for now. 
     Your anger at me is ridiculous since I could care less that you choose to
call your child BIRACIAL. Like I stated before the large majority of 
AfAms from slavery in America are biracial, triracial, etc. The fact still
remains that we are identified not by our genetic makeup but our appearance.
If I looked like an Asian person, I would be looked upon as Asian regardless
of how my parents look. Just by calling your child biracial doesn't mean that
he/she won't be looked upon as an AfAm if he/she looks like one. Ciao.
From: q2tj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: A bushel of raspberries for Kolodney
Date: 25 Jan 93 12:42:16 EST
Distribution: soc
Organization: Cornell University

sieh@panix.com (Nutella) writes: 
> 
> Just a quick comment here.  I found the above to be rather ironic
> because from Larry Kolodney, I see the theme of how people are people
> no matter what the skin color/ethnicity.  In other words, people being
> humans are governed by the same sort of behavior, emotions that every
> human being has.  That is why he is basically saying that there's no
> reason to believe that Indians or Africans would not exhibit the same
> sort of actions that Europeans have.  He's saying the opposite you
> accuse him of, which is that Europeans, Indians (native), Africans
> are the same and no one is better than one another.  You on the other
> hand, seem to have been arguing that there is a very fundamental 
> difference between the groups.
>
	
yeah, sure sure: "people are people"; now I've got to soapbox again:
Sure, I have dogmatic beliefs too that there is a basic humanity
in everyone.  But this "Great Humanistic Leveler" has often been
used as a device to avoid actually looking seriously at people
who are different from ourselves.  If one insists that "we" or
"cultures" are basically the same (e.g. conquest, manifest destiny)
because "human nature" is the same then one need *never* bother to seriously
look at your own culture that you are immersed in, let alone even
recognize other cultures in their own right.  I think this trick
is being used right now by *some* people in this thread to brush
off some serious history (that isn't over yet).

Also, this cliche "People are People" is a pretty weak premise
on which to base a contention that Native Indians or Africans
would exhibit "the same sorts of actions that Eruos have"
We're talking about *3* *continents* with incredible amounts
of variance on all levels (*difference*, not sameness is the
important thing to look at for real understanding)  And respect
for difference is not an easy trait to cultivate (few cultures
even attempt it).

Steve Seidman
 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african.american:14297 alt.conspiracy:14559
From: sieh@panix.com (Nutella)
Subject: Re: A bushel of raspberries for Kolodney
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 20:19:47 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.043153.19450@midway.uchicago.edu> 
thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1jnhq7INN4ro@morrow.stanford.edu> HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu 
>(Gabrielle Daniels) writes:
>>Look at the Chinese.  Im not saying that they werent casting
>>covetous glances at the Vietnamese and the Cambodians.  There was
>>the Mongol Empire, too.  But when it came time to check out the
>>great unknown of the Pacific, or even to consider stretching out to
>>the Levant and Eastern Europe, they probably just said, wait a
>>minute.  Whats the limit?  Are we stepping into something we hadnt
>>oughta?  Do we have everything we need?  Maybe we need to look into
>>ourselves and develop our inner selves.  Maybe controlling others
>>doesnt get the same result in the long run as controlling ourselves
>>and depending on our own initiative.
>
>I'm sure the Tibetans and Koreans will be happy to learn this surprising
>fact.

Gabrielle Daniels fundamentally misunderstands Chinese Dynastic history.
To begin with, China is a country carved into existence through wars and
conquest of other ethnic people, of which Tibetans were one such group.
Furthermore, the reasons for China not pursuing their sea technology 
lies in their philosophical outlook of the world rather than wondering
whether or not pursuing imperialistic was "moral".  They certainly had
no qualms about it before, so it's not reasonable to think that they had
this sudden change of heart.  For the "Chinese", calling China the "Middle
Kingdom" was no accident.  It was a form of cultural chauvinism on their
part in which they believed that only they were the only "civilized" ones
and all other people were "barbarians".  This lasted even until the
Qing Dynasty in which the rise of Western Civilization (ie. Europe) 
surpassed even Chinese Civilizaton in many aspects.  Also, increasingly,
their outlook became more parochial, inward looking.

-- 
//Lui Sieh		|How seldom we weigh our neighbor in the same
Mail: sieh@panix.com 	|balance with ourselves.  -- Thomas A. Kempis
_____________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: These are my opinions...but others may share them as well
From: dw3p+@andrew.cmu.edu (Derek Walker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: A Black Videofest
Date: 23 Jan 93 13:46:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.4fMRXZS00WB28Frn8r
Organization: Masters student, Information Networking Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


     I saw an interesting bit of information in the new Pittsburgh
Post-Gazette that you video buffs may be interested in:

-------
[Taken from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Weekend Magazine, January 22, 1992]

A black videofest

    If you plan to mark Black History Month with a videofest, a new
catalog may prove useful.  Facets Video has published an
African-American catalog with 800 titles grouped by categories such as
Inside Hollywood and Outside It, the African-American Experience, and
the Music Legacy.
    It offers well-known hits like "Do the Right Thing" along with
obscure features from filmmaking pioneer Oscar Micheaux, historical
overviews on black cowboys and athletes, and early works with Sidney
Poitier, Ossie Davis, and Ruby Dee.
    This specialty catalog is not very slick, just an oversize newsprint
tabloid, but it's free by calling 1-800-331-6197 or writing Facets
Video, 1517 W. Fullerton Ave., Chicago, Ill. 60614.

-----
[End of Article]


-------------------------
Derek X. Walker                       "Professor X     
6721 Thomas Blvd. #34                    is on          ###########
Pittsburgh, PA 15208                   the Flex!!"     ##         ##
(412) 661-1733                                         #  ~~   ~~  #
dw3p@andrew.cmu.edu                                    #  ()   ()  #
dwalker@faline.bellcore.com                            (     ^     )
                                                        |         |
                                                        |  {===}  |
                                                         \       /
                                                        /  -----  \
                                                     ---  |%\ /%|  ---
                                                    /     |%%%%%|     \
                                                          |%/ \%|
From: grj1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Matrix)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: How white America perceives African-Americans??!??
Date: 23 Jan 93 20:34:31 GMT
Reply-To: grj1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago

In article <1993Jan21.180129.13733@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
>In article <1993Jan20.223413.10464@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> dem2@pyuxd.uucp (Me) writes:
>>In various articles mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
>
>>>As I asked you, how many people do you know who have been
>>>mugged by blacks and how many who have been mugged by whites?
>
>>A stand-up comic said it best: Blacks and whites just have different
>>ways of mugging you. A Black person will approach you with a gun
>>and say "Give me all your money!". A white person will approach
>>you with a pen and say "Sign here Mr. Jones." 8-)
>
>Perhaps, but I can always say "No" to the guy with a pen.  The guy
>with the gun usually makes that option much harder.
>
>As before, how many people do you know who have been mugged by blacks
>and how many who have been mugged by whites?  Why don't you want to
>answer the question?

Actually i have been assaulted by whites much more frequently than i have by
blacks.  Even with that fact you don't see me avoiding whites as much as 
I can.  You don't see me crossing the street every time I see a white male.
The basic reason I have for this is....*I* would be running all the time.
There wouldn't be a way for me to avoid whites.  Furthermore, I believe that 
I am safer by keeping an eye on everyone.  That means looking at all *People*
as potential dangers.  Unfortunately, I doubt that most people do that.



>
>>>A permanent policy of shoot to kill against rioters
>>>might be a pretty effective permanent solution to riots.
>
>>Not in a society that pretends to be democratic. 
>
>Sorry, dude, but democracy refers to majority rule.  If the majority
>is happy killing rioters then there is no problem.
>
>>I guess a similar sentiment on the part of the British necessitated 
>>the Revolutionary War. And look what happened...
>
>Darryle, I suggest you read up a bit on US history.  The British had
>no such sentiment - they usually bent over backwards by the standards
>of the day to avoid violence.  The Revolutionary War was not caused by
>the Brittish shooting rioters.  If your highschool history courses
>left you with that impression they were pretty pathetic.
>

While we are on the topic of poor education, I wonder what you were taught in
your politics class.  First, *American* democracy isn't soley based on 
majority rule.  If majority rule were such a strong American principle
the Bill of Rights would never have been formed.  The entire reason for the 
Bill of Rights were to protect all citizens...especially those in the minority
opinion from the oppression of the majority.  I would suggest that you do 
some American political history readings before you make your generalizations.




>-- 
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
From: taylor@hojo.larc.nasa.gov (Barney Taylor)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Talk, Talk, and Talk on....
Date: 26 Jan 1993 21:05:48 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hojo.larc.nasa.gov

In article <1993Jan26.164639.28989@netnews.noc.drexel.edu>, glovercj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu writes:
|> In article <skp3vsh@rpi.edu> muhamo@nuge106.its.rpi.edu (Omari Wakweli
|> Muhammad) writes:
|> >As I was saying in the summary, 
|> >
|> >Just like talking is good for understanding, the  only thing worth talking 
|> >about is getting the fuck out of this country. That's the deal, and when we
|> >face reality, well see that we are better off seeking sources of understanding
|> >that will develop our values in a direction towards leaving this mother. 
|> >muhamo@rpi.edu
|> >
|> Leave?? Would you leave a house that you built with your blood sweat and tears?
|> Even if someone asked you to, you wouldn't. Hard work, injury, and pain brought
|> the building of the house to where it is now. A house is not a home, unless you
|> make it one. I wouldn't even know where to go. Do You? Africa? Yeah, Africa,
|> the same system of racists white supremacy exists there too. You can not beat
|> the problem by running away from it, because the problem is EVERYWHERE!! There
|> is no where on this world, where it will not find you. Leaving is a temporary
|> solution to a permanent problem my brother. Just like drugs take people away
|> from the problem for a moment or two, but when they come back and even while
|> they're there, the problems is still there. 
|> 	The library is th place for knowledge, but we must become our own liberators
|> with our own knowledge.

I must agree with Chad, though I understand the comments of the first brother.
My heart too, yearns to be back in ancient Kemet (Egypt). To know and live by the
42 negative confessions in respect of Maat. But where is Kemet now? 

per The book of Ipuwer in The Husia, retranslated by Maulana Karenga

   "Lo, what the ancestors foretold has come to pass. The land is full of
    bands of evil-doers and the plowman goes to plow with his shield. Faces
    are pale; the bowmen stand ready; wrongdoing is everywhere and there is
    no man or woman of yesterday."


This text is older than any on earth. The ancient african priests foretold of this
time that is now. I too wish to hear the ancient religions of Ausar, Auset, and Heru.
We Alkebulanians (Africans), are in a foriegn land having suffered 400 years, as was foretold in Genesis of the Holy Bible ( a translation of ancient texts). But, we will
rise again as was also foretold. The body of Ausar has be cut up in pieces and spread
across the world (Alkebulanians in the diaspora). But, the body will be put back to-
gether again.

Only those properly trained in the ancient mysteries will understand what I have written.

Barney,

_________________________________________
NASA Computer Scientist / Software Engineer

The previous comments do not represent the
opinions of my employer or the government in
any part.

Hetep
-------------------------------------------
From: glovercj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: What History & His Burden to AfAM
Date: 22 Jan 93 20:28:57 GMT
Organization: Drexel University

In article <1993Jan21.230402.3161@leland.Stanford.EDU>
stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski) writes:
>Chad Glover writes:
>
>>Stefan, ...
>>                                                              I am not a
>>racist. I am a African-American that is tired of sitting back watching my
>>people constantly being treated like Animals, and you'll NEVER understand
that.
>
>Chad,
>I understand completely, and could not possibly object.
>What shocked me, and made me come down so hard, was something very
>different. If you would re-read your original article, you will find 
>that it VERY EXPLICITLY advanced the folowing proposition:
>
>      Because of past and present racist acts by whites, 
>      black perpetrators of hate crimes should not be prosecuted.
>
>I found this proposition to be offensive, racist and wrong.
>
>Stefan
>

I never said that Stefan, and if that's what you though I implied, it is really
unfortunate. I came to the proposition that people should judge people for who
they are, individuals and not by what someone else has done to them that looks
like them.

Peace, :-)
Chad J Glover
glovercj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu   or   glovercj@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu 
Drexel University Software Testing Lab
"Give a Man a Fish, you Feed him for a Day,
Teach a man to Fish, you Feed him for a Lifetime."
From: zursch@whizkid.wpd.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Masons
Date: 20 Jan 93 23:18:02 GMT
Reply-To: zursch@whizkid.wpd.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <1993Jan20.163855.9773@midway.uchicago.edu>, Ted Frank writes:
>I'm not a big Mason fan, but this is completely false.  No one has
>thought this since the racist Know-Nothings in the 1840's.

That's not wholly true, either, Ted. 

Many looney fundamentalist Christians now believe the Masons to be a
satanic and cultist organization. 

(Considering my Grandfather was a Mason and I myself was a DeMolay (junior
masonic group) I find that pretty funny...) 

JZ
From: Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Statistics
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 11:35:34 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1993Jan21.165129.20720@netnews.noc.drexel.edu>

You fool, don't you know there's a ban on statistics that show
progress in racial relations? 

Here's some more - the ACE which publishes annual bad new report points
out that Hispanics still drop out at a 50% rate, but they skip the fact
that the Black dropout rate and literacy rate has reached parity with
whites.

They also downplay the fact that black enrollment in professional schools
has doubled during the Reagan/Bush years, and grad school enrollment was up
by 52 percent.

How about the fact that blacks have increased by 79% in management and exec
jobs? It's +45% for males, +120% for females?

(Ecnomist 1-9-93 p.26)

Read Derek Bell's new book - he and other still insist that blacks have
suffered nothing but setbacks, when in fact the number setbacks is very
small, and largely restridcted to the small underclass that gets all the
headlines.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: barnhart@ddsw1.mcs.com (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: Re: Anyone know James Earl Jones' politics?
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 04:06:18 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.

HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) wrote:
:.
:My credentials: B.A. in Radio-TV Journalism, San Jose State
:University, 1976.
:

Shelby Steele's home base!  No wonder you're so fonda him.

A.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Re: More raspberries for Kolodney
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 18:45:39 GMT

Gabrielle Daniels writes:
>...
>Thirdly, and this is for Michorowski. You made a rather stupid
>remark about my talking about the murder of millions of women who
>were healers, midwives and herbalists.  Well, dude, most of those
>women were persecuted for being witches.  They were burned at the
>stake, for instance.  So much for the enlightened views of Western
>Civ.
>...

This is dishonest, Gabrielle. As you well know, I was making fun of
your claim that MILLIONS of midwives and herbalists had been burned by
the Catholic church.  The claim was, and still is, phantasmagorical.

I don't understand the peculiar desire that you (and others) have to
multiply the numbers of the dead. 60 million Africans here, a million
midwives there. Somebody recently tossed in a few hundred thousand
Africans mowed down by British machine guns. Why can't we have some
respect for those who actually suffered and died? Do we need an additional
imaginary mountain of corpses before we know that we need to get our 
act together?

You and I live on different planets, Gabrielle. Mine is the third one
from the Sun.

S.
From: glovercj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Talk, Talk, and Talk on....
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:46:39 GMT
Organization: Drexel University

In article <skp3vsh@rpi.edu> muhamo@nuge106.its.rpi.edu (Omari Wakweli
Muhammad) writes:
>As I was saying in the summary, 
>
>Just like talking is good for understanding, the  only thing worth talking 
>about is getting the fuck out of this country. That's the deal, and when we
>face reality, well see that we are better off seeking sources of understanding
>that will develop our values in a direction towards leaving this mother. 
>muhamo@rpi.edu
>
Leave?? Would you leave a house that you built with your blood sweat and tears?
Even if someone asked you to, you wouldn't. Hard work, injury, and pain brought
the building of the house to where it is now. A house is not a home, unless you
make it one. I wouldn't even know where to go. Do You? Africa? Yeah, Africa,
the same system of racists white supremacy exists there too. You can not beat
the problem by running away from it, because the problem is EVERYWHERE!! There
is no where on this world, where it will not find you. Leaving is a temporary
solution to a permanent problem my brother. Just like drugs take people away
from the problem for a moment or two, but when they come back and even while
they're there, the problems is still there. 
	The library is th place for knowledge, but we must become our own liberators
with our own knowledge.

Peace, :-)
Chad J Glover
glovercj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu   or   glovercj@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu 
Drexel University Software Testing Lab
"Give a Man a Fish, you Feed him for a Day,
Teach a man to Fish, you Feed him for a Lifetime."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.african
From: mukasa@panix.com (Michael K Mukasa)
Subject: Re: The White Man's Burden.
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:50:05 GMT

@panix.com> <1993Jan21.233323.16467@odin.corp.sgi.com>

In <1993Jan21.233323.16467@odin.corp.sgi.com> zursch@whizkid.wpd.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide) writes:

>In article <C16GEq.D59@panix.com> lkk@panix.com (Larry Kolodney) writes:
>>How can you "steal" technology?  All you can do is copy it.  Yet there
>>absolutely no evidence of industrialization in Africa in pre-colonial
>>times.  So whatever was stolen, it certainly wasn't the technology
>>which Europe used to rule the world.

>Sorry, Larry, but you're wrong here. When your ancestors and mine were
>living in caves making interesting paintings of animals, our African brethren 
>were working iron in central and northern Africa. It came to Europe through
>Spain and through the Balkans from North Africa and the middle east. 

>Now, I don't consider the expansion of basic technologies to be stealing, unless
>you take all the apparatus and kill all the people who know how to make the
>apparatus, and that was clearly not done in this case, but the technology 
>of the iron age did come from sub-saharan africa first. 

>JZ

Add to that mining gold, copper, etc and vast knowledge in the sciences
like astronomy etc.

I really have to run  or I would go on and on.

Kiggundu.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american