From: egreen@east.sun.com (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: infant crawlers banned (was: Helmets)
Date: 4 Jan 93 21:16:56 GMT
Reply-To: egreen@east.sun.com
Organization: Sun Microsystems, RTP, NC
NNTP-Posting-Host: laser.east.sun.com

In article 2360@vpbuild.vp.com, jessea@u013.me.vp.com (Jesse W. Asher) writes:
>In article <1992Dec21.173256.2367@progress.com>, matth@progress.COM (Matthew J. Harper) wrote the following:
>
>Now if the owner calls up the company and the company doesn't give them
>help - that is a different story.  But most people know how to use a
>ladder and the benefits of putting warning labels on a latter do _not_
>outweight the costs of those labels.

Wrong.

The warning labels shift the responsibility of the accident from the
manufacturer to the consumer (or at least the burden of establishing
proof otherwise).  It's not just the label.  Warning labels, documented
safety studies, documented engineering analysis of materials chosen for
safety (such as rubber footies), etc., all demonstrate a *pattern* of
safety consciousness on the part of the manufacturer that will often
prevent neglegence cases from even getting to court.

The fees for one legal team to defend one lawsuit can pay for a
boatload of warning labels.

>Unfortunately, I believe this is becoming the norm.  People blame
>somebody else when they make a mistake to don't use good judgement.

True, including the characterization as unfortunate.  In such an
environment, the ladder manufacturer would be an idiot NOT to plaster
warnings all over the thing.

>That means, I, the consumer, are responsible for finding out how to 
>use this item effectively.  
>A company should provide such information on request,
>but not with every item they produce. 

I disagree, without some qualifications.  Complete instructions on the
proper use of a screwdriver are perhaps unnecessary.  A sticker
indicating the point at which extension of a ladder has exceeded its
design is perfectly reasonable.

You suggested consumers should ask their *neighbor* how to use a
ladder!  How utterly preposterous!  The primary reason motorcycles are
so "dangerous" is that this is exactly how 90% of the riders out there
"learned" to ride!  For items such as ladders, the most reliable source
for information on safe use of the product is from the manufacturer,
and such information should be provided upon purchase.

>The cost of providing
>instructions on request is not going to be as high as providing even
>minimal instructions as warnings with every item.

Again, this is simply not true.  To make such information readily
available would require an 800 number, with a paid "expert(s)" manning
the line(s) constantly.  An owners manual included in each item is much
cheaper and more reliable, a warning sticker even more so.

Another point:  it is to the manufacturer's advantage to provide such
instruction, to reduce their overhead in dealing with misuse-caused
repairs submitted for warranty service.

---
Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker,
  Ed.Green@East.Sun.COM   |and I showed him a picture of you.  I said,
DoD #0111  (919)460-8302  |"Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"
 (The Grateful Dead) -->  |It seemed like the least I could do...
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles