HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pallas@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Sarah Pallas)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: A Hard Keeper
Date: 14 Dec 1992 18:16:43 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston,Tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu

In article <1gh1tdINNk4c@nigel.msen.com> dan@msen.com (Dan Sugalski) writes:
>Sarah Pallas (pallas@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu) wrote:
>: Some people (including fellow netters) have said that corn oil may
>: make a horse tie up, so you might want to try something else, like
>: soybean oil.
> 
>Does anyone have further information?  


Sorry, I'm only repeating what I've heard.  Can the persons who
originally said this reply?  I have also heard the selenium-tying up
connection, and I think there is more research to back that up.  But
I've heard about problems with corn oil from several completely
different sources, all anecdotal.  Tying up is an acute muscular
fatigue problem, I believe from lactate build-up in the muscles.  I
don't know much about it so someone else should fill in here.

-Sarah Pallas
From: mags@wsl.dec.com (John Magdziarz)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: stables in the Bay Area?
Date: 15 Dec 1992 23:29:51 GMT
Organization: DEC  Western Software Lab
Distribution: ba
Reply-To: mags@wsl.dec.com (John Magdziarz)
NNTP-Posting-Host: fnodoze.pa.dec.com

A tired and beaten old question no doubt but...

Are there any good stables in the Bay Area that have horses 
to "rent"  ie. ride for a couple hours.  This is for a
moderately experienced rider.  

Cost, location, quality of horses?

thanks,

]mags[

-- 
John Magdziarz                                     mags@wsl.pa.dec.com
DEC Western Software Lab., Palo Alto, California.  .....!decwrl!mags
"I know it's really ugly but it's only a buck."
893 days and still no natural disasters on my block.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:31:42 EST
From: <GMG7@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: RE: dead T-bred shot

Not to beat a dead horse (please excuse the pun but I counldn't help myself :-)
I found this on story on another net and thought maybe some of you might find
it amuzing.

Here goes:
    A man had finally talked his wife into going deer hunting with him and
they were about to start out when he gave her some last minute instructions
He said, "Before we get out there, I have to explain a few things.  First of
all, we are going to split up and walk both sides of this canyon.  I'll be on
one side and you'll be on the other.  Second, if you should shoot a deer, you
MUST get up to the deer ASAP, because if somebody else gets to it first, they
could tag it and take it from you.  Be prepared to protect your kill if you doo
get there first."  She decided that it didn't sound too hard and they went on
their way.

     As he was walking along on his side of the canyon he heard a shot from
where his wife should have been and went running to see how she had done.  When
he found her, she had her gun pulled and aimed at this cowboy.  the cowboy was
slowly walking backward with his hands in the air saying:  "Okay Lady, you can
have the deer, but can I have the saddle off of it?".

I got a kick out of it, I hope someone else did too.

--Gina M. Giansante
From: templin@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (TEMPLIN GERI ELLEN)
Subject: Re: 1993
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:28:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.225110.12609@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> jwg2y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Warner Granade) writes:
>1993 will be a year of change.  But what changes will we
>equestrians see?  Will 1993 be the year for
>1. The K-Tel mane braiding machine?
>2. A Lazy-Boy saddle?
>3. The halter with an electronic fly repellant?
>4. Evian water for horses?
>5. Spandex leg stockings and tail wraps for horses?
>6. A new type of polo with a fence across the field
>   requiring the horses to jump?
>7. a 900# for training questions?
>8. Musical Kur to rap music?
>9. Madonna Lady Godiva photo book?
>10.A Nordic excercise machine simulating a posting trot?
>11.A TV soap opera centered around a hunter barn (or a
>   hunt club)?
>12.NFL Superstars competing on horseback?
>
>
>Did I leave anything out?
>--
>Warner Granade *****jwg2y@virginia.edu
>804-924-7409
>

13. Rollerblades for horses - allowing grand prix tests
    with pirouette at the halt?
From: steve.king@idcbbs.uu.holonet.net (Steve King) 
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Hay Cubes Anyone?
Date: 19 Dec 92 07:39:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: IDC BBS - Alameda, CA - 510-865-7115
Reply-To: steve.king@idcbbs.uu.holonet.net (Steve King) 

To: kristinr@sco.COM

KR . pluses and minuses?  I am thinking of switching from Alfalfa/Oat hay to
KR . a combination cube and was just wondering what I should look out for.
KR . The horses seem to be wasting a lot of hay this time of year.  It is 
KR . obviously lacking in quality.  I supplement with complete pellets,
KR . bran and some grain.

We fed cubes when we lived in So. CA (San Diego area), primarily because 
they were a bit cheaper than hay, but also because their protein content 
is pretty fixed at 17%, whereas hay varies.  Up here in No. CA (Redding 
area), we feed a hay because it's *much* cheaper than cubes.  Actually, 
since we had such a good experience with them, we'd rather feed cubes.  
Also, we found with cubes we didn't need to supplement with grain or 
pellets, except with mares in foal or rapidly-growing weened youngsters.

steve.king@idcbbs.uu.holonet.net (Steve King)
From: dan@msen.com (Dan Sugalski)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: ARABIANS
Date: 13 Dec 1992 04:23:08 GMT
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, Michigan
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.msen.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

: I just want to make one point, bay is NOT an exotic color in Arabians.  For
: many years the majority of Arabians in this country were grey, mostly because
: the early imports were mostly grey.  Now there are many bay, chestnut, and
: black Arabians.  My mare Quality is chestnut, her sire was bay, her dam was
: flea-bit grey.  She also has a half-sister who is bay, out of the same dam.

just for clarification:
 
I was under the assumption that Sha Hameer was an exotic color of bay, not
that bay was an exotic color.  Grey tends to be tha predominant color because
tha gene which causes greying is dominant.  I was wondering if Shah Hameer
might be exotic because of the beginning of a color change--rose greys
can look really neat during the beginning stages of the bay-grey change.

Karen
From: steve.king@idcbbs.uu.holonet.net (Steve King) 
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: ARABIANS
Date: 13 Dec 92 05:41:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: IDC BBS - Alameda, CA - 510-865-7115
Reply-To: steve.king@idcbbs.uu.holonet.net (Steve King) 

TO:donnag@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM

DG . What color exactly is a bay horse with a white tail?

Brown.

steve.king@idcbbs.uu.holonet.net (Steve King)
From: mary@cloudpeak.tivoli.com (Mary Anthony)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Advice needed for "Stall Kicking"
Date: 16 Dec 92 00:09:14 GMT
Organization: TIVOLI Systems, Inc.


Hello,

I need some advice regarding what to do about my TB, Doug, who has a habit of
kicking at feeding time.  I board Doug, so I'm not usually at the barn at
feeding time.  However, I do know from my own observations (when I have been
there) and the observations of the folks who are feeding, what Doug does.

Doug is kept in a wooden box stall. There is another box stall to his right
with another horse in it.  Just before feeding Doug gets a bit excited.  He
strikes forward with his hoof and bangs against the stall door.  He'll stop for
a short bit if you yell "Quit"!  But he'll start up again after a bit.  Once
he's been fed, he kicks with his back feet, the right hind, against the side of
the stall as he is eating -- apparently to warn the other horse.  Again, he'll
stop if you yell and start up again after a bit.

This is really hard on the stalls. It isn't feasible for Doug to be fed
outside.  I've been considering putting something like "kicking chains" (I
don't know if this is the right term) on him.  These are heavy chains that go
around the pastern loosely enough so that when the horse kicks out the chains
slide up and down -- the horse doesn't like the feel and stops kicking.  I've
seen these on other horses and I've asked my vet about them.  I hesitate about
using them.  1) The chains sound cruel -- maybe it's the word chain connected
with my horse I don't like. 2) I'm worried the chain will scar him.  3) Will
the chain catch on something?.

Has anyone had a similar problem?  Is there another solution other than these
kicking chain things?  Also, if someone is using these chains I'd appreciate
some words of experience.

Thanks,

Mary

*****************************************************************
* YOU WANTED TO OWN A HORSE.		| Mary M. Anthony	*
* YOU WANTED TO BE A HORSE.		| mary@tivoli.com	*
* YOU WANTED YOUR BROTHER TO BE HORSE.	| Tivoli Systems, Inc.	*
*     - from a Nike ad			| Austin, Texas		*
*****************************************************************
--
*****************************************************************
* YOU WANTED TO OWN A HORSE.		| Mary M. Anthony	*
* YOU WANTED TO BE A HORSE.		| mary@tivoli.com	*
* YOU WANTED YOUR BROTHER TO BE HORSE.	| Tivoli Systems, Inc.	*
*     - from a Nike ad			| Austin, Texas		*
*****************************************************************
From: brownlow@mala.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: 5398
Date: 15 Dec 92 12:31:43 -0700
Organization: Malaspina College

we call them rainbow reins and find them very useful for our therapeutic riders
as well as our hunter/jumper students.
Jennifer
From: jd@rust.zso.dec.com (John D'Addamio)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: History of Dressage v2.01
Summary: Balderdash!
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:22:46 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering

I have read the news notes on dressage with great interest and marvel.
However, there are several bits of misinformation that have appeared in 
the first 2 installments of this history of dressage and the arguments over
whether dressage origininated in the military circles or the courts.

First of all, Xenophon was NOT a statesman. He was a military officer
and soldier of fortune. I refer you to pages 69-75 and onward in the
J.A. Allen published translation of "On Horsemanship". It quite clearly
says that little was known of Xenophon before he joined the army in 401
BC! It also says he was exiled from his home city-state for fighting on
the "wrong" side of some conflict or another.

People who want to argue that dressage originated in the courts
frequently overlook Xenophon's checkered life as a military man. They
also point to the fact that de la Gueriniere taught in the courts. They
over look the fact that the nobles were the officers in the military!
They also overlook the fact that the title of de la Gueriniere's book,
"Ecole de Cavalrie" means "The Cavalry School" It was the dream of every
ecuyer to have his methods accepted by the courts and therefore by the
military. 

The argument about whether dressage was a courtly or a military entity
is entirely specious. The 2 were inseparable in those days.

John
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: alan_c@cix.compulink.co.uk (Alan Chapman)
Subject: Re: A Hard Keeper
Cc: alan_c@cix.compulink.co.uk
Reply-To: alan_c@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:19:00 +0000


> +From         : dan@msen.com (Dan Sugalski)
> 
> Just a reminder to anyone feeding beet pulp.  Beet pulp absorbs several
> times its weight in water and should be soaked for several hours prior to
> feeding.

24 hrs for cubed sugar beet
12 hrs for shredded/pulp.

these times can be reduced *if* you use warm water to soak the beet
in.


> Karen

Alan.
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Extended trail ride questions.
Date: 12 Dec 92 09:59:37 EST
Distribution: world
Organization:  Wright State University 

In article <Bish.00ki@xanodria.UUCP>, Bish@xanodria.UUCP (Doug Bischoff) writes:
>     Hello all.	More questions.
> 
>     When I was getting fairly good at staying on the horse at all gaits, I
> suggested to my friend that we take the horses out overnight or perhaps over
> a weekend and make it a camping trip.  She's a VERY outdoors-y person, so I
> was very surprised when she VEHEMENTLY refused.  Her reasoning was that we'd
> have to carry food AND water for the horses as well as ourselves.
> 
>     Now call me naieve, but I thought that horses were once wild animals
> that could drink water from practically any (non-industrial waste
> contaminated, of course) water source.	Do horses have to worry about
> Giradelli and bacteria and all that jazz like we fragile humans do?  Would
> Iodine tabs help?  And as for food, so I loosen up a bit and let my horse
> graze as we're walking and find a campsite with lotsa grass and tie 'em with
> a long rope.
> 

Horses can drink water anywhere.  Just depends on the horse.  Some are 
spoiled and fussy and don't like 'strange' water.  But when they get thirsty
enough, usually they'll drink it.  
Lots of horses don't do well on a long rope.  They have to know how to handle
it, most get the rope wrapped around their legs and panic.  You can pack 
grain to take, though.  

>     Am I way off base here?  If not, could someone tell me what precautions
> and planning is necessary to assure that the horses will be properly cared
> for on an extended ride (perhaps even to weeks long?)  Thanks!
> 
> 

Sorry, I don't know an answer to this one.  Any one else?

Sue

--
> ----
> Doug Bischoff		 Xanodria: Step Into a Storybook \
> 3103 Leidolf Ct.	   Where YOU become the hero in   EMail for Info
> Floyds Knobs, IN 47119	 an authentic Fantasy Adventure! /
> ----
> bish@xanodria.UUCP  -or-  coplex.com!bish%xanodria.UUCP  -or-  DEB110@psuvm
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: alan_c@cix.compulink.co.uk (Alan Chapman)
Subject: Re: A Hard Keeper
Cc: alan_c@cix.compulink.co.uk
Reply-To: alan_c@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:19:00 +0000


Sarah Pallas (pallas@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu) wrote:
> Tying up is an acute muscular
> fatigue problem, I believe from lactate build-up in the muscles.  I
> don't know much about it so someone else should fill in here.
> 
> -Sarah Pallas
> 
Quoting from one of my vet books (notes in SQUARE brackets are mine) :

'Whatever the actual cause, it [azoturia, tying up, setfast,
exertional rhabdomyolysis] results in damage of the muscle cells
(myopathy). their outer membranes become more leaky, permitting loss
from the cells of two enzymes, creatine kinase and aspartate
aminotransferase. As a result the concentration of these enzymes
increases in the blood. This rise in concentration reflects
accurately the severity of muscle damage. [...]

If the damage to the cells is severe, a muscle pigment, myoglobin,
may be released into the blood. This is a large molecule which is
excreted via the kidneys causing dark discolouration of the urine.
The name azoturia refers to this. Because of their large size,
myoglobin molecules may impair the filtration mechanism of the
kidney and, in extremely severe cases, cause irreparable kidney
damage.

The muscle damage causes release of lactic acid [other references I
have to hand - but less recent to this one - put a build up of
lactic acid a one of the causes of azoturia, which is actually
correct?] (a substance responsible for muscle cramp) and pain.'

Alan.
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: templin@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (TEMPLIN GERI ELLEN)
Subject: Re: 1993
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:55:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.225110.12609@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> jwg2y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Warner Granade) writes:
>1993 will be a year of change.  But what changes will we
>equestrians see?  Will 1993 be the year for
>1. The K-Tel mane braiding machine?
>2. A Lazy-Boy saddle?
>3. The halter with an electronic fly repellant?
>4. Evian water for horses?
>5. Spandex leg stockings and tail wraps for horses?
>6. A new type of polo with a fence across the field
>   requiring the horses to jump?
>7. a 900# for training questions?
>8. Musical Kur to rap music?
>9. Madonna Lady Godiva photo book?
>10.A Nordic excercise machine simulating a posting trot?
>11.A TV soap opera centered around a hunter barn (or a
>   hunt club)?
>12.NFL Superstars competing on horseback?
>
>
>Did I leave anything out?
>--
>Warner Granade *****jwg2y@virginia.edu
>804-924-7409


13. Rollerblades for horses - allowing Grand Prix tests
    with pirouette at the halt?


Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: jespah@carson.u.washington.edu (Kathleen Hunt)
Subject: Minor corrections about color genetics
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 03:16:30 GMT

Just a couple minor points about genetics...

From: dan@msen.com (Dan Sugalski)
>  Buckskin is a dilute
>form of bay. Buckskin (dilute bay), palomino (dilute chestnut), red
>dun (also dilute chestnut) and grulla (dilute black) horses all
>carry a single gene for dilution.  Dilution is a dominant trait, and 
>a double dose will produce another color, even paler.  Perlino and
>cremello are double dilute bay and chestnut respectively.  I can't 
>remember what the black is.

I just wanted to point out that dilution is *incompletely dominant*, not
truly dominant.  The very fact that one dilution allele gives different
results than two dilution alleles shows that it is not truly dominant.
(in other words, a single dilution allele is unable to totally override
the non-dilution allele; the non-dilution allele still makes its presence felt.)

>  Grey tends to be tha predominant color because
>tha gene which causes greying is dominant. 

Another minor correction: whether or not a gene is dominant has nothing to
do with how common it is.  For example, grey is dominant in Thoroughbreds
too, and in Morgans, yet there are few grey Thoroughbreds and
few (none?) grey Morgans.  That's because the grey gene, even though it
is dominant, simply isn't common in those breeds.  Horses with a dominant
gene aren't necessarily any better, and don't breed any more often, than
horses with the recessive genes -- so the recessive genes (non-grey) go on
being common.  Only if breeders deliberately bred for grey, or if there were
some influential grey stallions, would grey start to become more common. 

Genetically yours,   
Kathleen



-- 
Halfway round the course, up spoke the noble rider:  
 "I fear we must fall back, for she's going like a tiger."
Up spoke the noble horse:  "Ride on, my noble master,
  For we're halfway round the course, and now we'll see who's faster."
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: ktracy@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Karin L Tracy)
Subject: Re: Help! My horse has turned into a Juvenile Delinquent!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:25:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.153509.15893@walter.cray.com> radner@cray.com (Lauren Rad
ner) writes:
>Hi, folks. I am having a problem with one of my horses and am looking
>for innovative and insightful ways to correct it.
>
>First off, I know full well that this is a problem due to ME not
>spending enough time doing proper training (like most manners problems!).
>I won't go into why I haven't been around to do the correcting, I'll just
>describe the problem (please don't blast me for not making the time, it's
>been unavoidable and I couldn't feel any worse about it).

Stuff deleted about a stallion behaving like, well, a stallion.

As the owner of several young stallions who at one time or another
have exhibited 'stud' behavior, I have a few suggestions/warnings.
Yes, it's hormone based, and can become worse as a horse ages.
However, I think your problem is more lack of consistent discipline.
You say you have not been able to give the horse as much attention
as you would like which may make matters worse, but I suspect you
have a barn manager who's afraid of your horse and has let things
get out of hand.  Give a stud an inch and he'll take a mile...plus.
I know it sounds harsh, but you must stop that behavior quickly,
or someone is going to get hurt.  Let him have it with a whip or
whatever it takes to make him stop AS SOON AS HE SHOWS EVEN THE
SLIGHTEST TENDENCY to misbehave, even if it's only a nicker.  Your
barn manager and everyone who handles the horse must do the same.
I don't mean to sound sexist (I'm female after all), but many
women aren't firm enough with stallions and end up with incorrigible
horses, or worse, get themselves badly hurt.  That's a lot of pounds
and muscle power there.  This is one of the few times I would ever
advocate using brute force on a horse, but his behavior is very
dangerous and will get worse unless you make it very clear to him
that it won't be tolerated.  Good luck!
                            Karin Tracy and THE MIGHTY MORGANS
From: Kermit2@cup.portal.com (Kermit N Hylen)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: W. Saddle FOR SALE
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 00:06:11 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: ba


*** don't mail me...just for a friend who takes me riding ;} 

Saddle FOR SALE:
One 17" Western Saddle in Good Condition
Suede seat with burgundy leather
Extra comfortable

$595 or best offer
415-328-6545 (Palo Alto)
Evenings, or leave message
From: dan@msen.com (Dan Sugalski)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: horse toys/boredom alleviators
Date: 12 Dec 1992 19:51:44 GMT
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, Michigan
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.msen.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]


: 	Kosmos cant stay out during the day because he cant stand flies
: 	and drives himself crazy in a yard or field, so I have him in a box
: 	at a riding school.

I don't know if it available in your area, but Equicare Flysect products
are very good for repeling flies.  Sone of them are longer acting than 
others, these also contain sunscreens.

Would it be possible for you to turn him out over night?   This has
been a good solution for me.  It also allows the horse some playtime
during the cooler (even if only slightly) hours.

Have fun!
Karen and Sterling
(on Dan's account)

From: donnag@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Donna Griffiths)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:37:06 GMT
Subject: Gentle Arabian at Stud
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian

		gentle

	Sheyk Obeyd Arabian Stallion At Stud

Exquisite conformation, intelligent and prepotent, 

		AH Ahrah 

is a grey, 14.2 Ansata El Nisr Son (National Top Ten Stallion, produced
6 National  Winners  out of only 91 foals) who is himself  an  Egyptian
Event Top Ten  stallion.  AH Ahrahs, dam,  Rahoney, is a full sister to
Bint  Gulida,  (Endurance  champion and Tevis Cup record  holder(to  my
knowledge)) one of Linda Tellington-Jones Endurance horses.

He has the  biggest  eyes I have  ever seen on an  Arabian,  as well as
extremely  correct knees and legs in general.  A beautiful,  airy mover
with great intelligence and a great capacity for friendship and affection.

Colorado Futurity Nominations paid with breeding.

Introductory fee of:     $950 LFFG for Pure Breds 
		         $450 LFG for half arabs

There is a $50 Booking fee to reserve your breeding.

Special considerations for Al Khamsa and 4-H horses...



Donna Griffiths--

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Donna Griffiths  (303)225-0505   telnet 1-229-4347  email
donnag@fc.HP UX.com
Fax (303)229-6370
Work
Hewlett Packard FWL Perf. Lab, 3404 East Harmony Rd. Ft. Collins
CO 80525
or Home
Tassan Egyptians
2300 ECR 36 
Ft Collins, CO
80525
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
P.S
(Pass/Post around for 10% commission on breedings if I get your name as a
reference before 3/15/93)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


		

From: donnag@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Donna Griffiths)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:12:26 GMT
Subject: Arabians for Sale
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA