From: samir@sphinx.rtp.dg.com (M. Yasser Samir)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Top 10 Reasons for Believing in the Deity of Jesus Christ.
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:02:41 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC


          In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

   After reading article # 53702, written by Mr. Richard Pitts, speaking about
Islam and the relationship between Christianity and Islam, I thought I have to
respond to his article to correct what has been said.  To me, it seems that he
was talking about different kind of Islam, I personally never heard about it. 
It also seems to me, that there was no knowledge about the religion from it's
own sources before the writing began.  It sounded to me like the typical orintalists literature.


Mr. Pitts wrote :
>Since muslims consider Jesus a prophet, much like Mohommed, how do they
>or you reconcile him being called the Son of God, Lord, Savior, The Annointed
>One, etc ?

The first part is right.  Yes, Muslims take Jesus exactly like Mohammed,Moses,
Abraham, Jacob, Ishmaeel, Noeh, and all the others (may peace be upon all of
them). The second part is to be answered from the Bible(the authentic and most
reliable source accroding to Mr. Pitts belifs).  So, let's examine the word
"Son of God", and how it's used in the Bible.

Prophets that were called "sons of God", even His firstborn sometimes :

(1) Adam (PBUH) Luk 3:38
    "The son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God".

(2) Abraham (PBUH) Jeremiah 31:9
    "because I AM Israel's father, and Ephraim is my firstborn son".

(3) Jacob (PBUH) Exodus 4:22
    "Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the Lord says: 
    "Israel is my firstborn son."".

(4) David (PBUH) 2ed Samuel 7:14
    "I will be his father, and he will be my son".

(5) Solomon (PBUH) 1st Chronicles 22:10
    "He is the one who will build a house for my Name,
     He will be my son, and I will be his father.

(6) David (PBUH) Psalm 89:27
    "I will also oppoint him my firstborn, the most exalted of 
     the kings of the earth.".

(7) David (PBUH) was even called "BEGOTTEN" in Psalm 2:7
    "I will proclaim the decree of the Lord : he said to me;
    "You are my son; today I have bogotten you.".

Let's examine what the Bible said about the word "Only Son" :

Only son - is NOT used literally in the Bible.

(1) Genesis 22:2
    "Then God said "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love......"
     (We all know that Isaac (PBUH) never was the only son for Abraham(PBUH)).

(2) Genesis 6:2
    "The sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful".

(3) Deuteronomy 14:1
    "You are the childern of the Lord your God".

(4) Hosea 1:10
    "Yet the Israelites will br like the sand on the seashore, which can not
     be measured or counted, in the place where it was said to them "You are 
     not my people, they will be called "Sons of the living God"".

What about the word "Lord"?  Can we take it litterally that Jesus (PBUH) was 
God in the flesh as Christians say?!    The answer is NO.  We can't take it 
litterally, because number of people were called "Lord" in the Bible as a 
sign of intense love from God to them, like Moses, David (PBUT).  
Let's say for the sack of argument that the word Lord means God.  Does that
mean, we have a house full of Gods in England (The House of Lords)?!!.

What about the word "Savior"?  It simply applies on all the prophets, without
any further explaination.  What was the mission of prophet Moses (PBUH) for
example to the Jews in Egypt?  Wasn't he a Savior to them?  Isn't this the
mission of every prophet..to come and save people from the disbelieve of the
true God, and to save them from hell fire?!!.

What about the word "The Annointed One"?  So does other people.  Psalm 2:2,
prophet David (PBUH) was called annointed.  Syrus (the pagon one according to
the Bible) was described as annointed in the Book of Isiah 24:1.  The word
annionted never was/is one of God's attributes.

I hope that is sufficient enough to show how we reconcile him being called the Son of God, Lord, Savior, The Annointed One, etc ?.


Mr. Pitts wrote :
>Why would you want to restrict me or anyone else to not being able to use
>the Bible????  It is a source of knowledge, more than I or anyone else has.

Are you sure?  If you are that sure, then speak for yourself please.


Mr. Pitts wrote :
Ask Allah how much work you have to do to get to heaven.  What if you don't do one of these works???

There is some implication here that Muslims believe that work and good deeds
will take them to heavens.  First, I DEMAND Mr. Pitts to give me his sources
of that information.  Second, there is NOWHERE in the intire Quran (the book
of Muslims, that they believe it's the verbatim word of God) that humans will
be saved by work alone.  The Quran always says, that heavens will be to those
who have- FAITH and GOOD DEEDS.  Faith has to come first, not any faith - it
has to be the right faith in the first place.  Also, the Quran answered the 
question about those people who do good deeds alone without faith.  It says,
that those people will come on the day of judgment to find their work just like a mirrage.  They think it's there, but there will be nothing for them from their good deeds they had done in their life, because they didn't have the right faith in the first place. So, Muslim believe in faith and then work.
No murder or blood shade in required.  Allah is so merciful of us.  Anything
good we will do, He will accept and reward us on it.  It's even said in so
many places in the Quran that, every single good deed a Muslim will do, will
erase 10 bad deeds.  Everything will be foregivin except to disbelieve in God
(Allah), or to associate any other dieties or powers with him

Mr. Pitts wrote :
>I think they hold that the Old Testament is valid, it is hard to see how
>they hold the New Testament as valid and yet not see Jesus as God's Son.

He was speaking about Muslims.  Again, I DEMAND Mr. Pitts to give me his sources on this one too.  There is NOWHERE in the intire Quran, or by any Muslim scholar that ever suggested that Muslims take the Old Tastement.  The
Old Tastement to Muslims is exactly like the New Tastement.  Both were written
with no authority, encluding by the way, the first 5 book of "Moses".  Please
realize that I did put Moses's name (PBUH) in " " following what Christian
scholars do.  Which means : that what people believe they are.  That what people know them by.  There is no 100% knowldge or even proof that Moses (PBUH) worte those books or even anything.  How in the world could he have
written in the Book of Deuteronomy that he died on 120 years of age.  How in
the world could God for example have written the Book of Ezeikiel Chapter 23?
I myself CAN NOT even dare to write some of it here.  How could that language
be the "word of God"?  Just for God's sack, read chapter 23 for yourself, and
you will know exactly what I mean.



Mohamed Yasser Samir
Tel : (919) 248-6266
Fax : (919) 248-6352