HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gary.chan@compdyn.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Gary Chan) 
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Can we get the detail
Date: 15 Dec 92 22:06:00 GMT
Reply-To: gary.chan@compdyn.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Gary Chan) 
Distribution: world
Organization: Computer Dynamics - Vancouver B.C. - (604)986-9937 (604)255-9937

Brian Sturgill to All on 12-15-92 All about Re: Can we get the detail

BS>  
BS>Tim, how good is you evidence that Microsoft purposely checks for
BS>OS/2 boot manager to be anti-OS/2?   I personally expect they
BS>have a good reason for it (perhaps the boot manager code interfere's w
BS>NT's boot manager code.
BS>
BS>I definitely think you are wrong about their attempt to keep customers
BS>from triple booting.  In fact, Microsoft, in the MSWIN32 forum on
BS>CompuServe provides explicit instructions on how to set up for triple
BS>boot with OS/2 2.0. This to me, shows a far different picture than the
BS>one you are trying to paint.

Tim does make a very good point.  In the July release there were no 
conflicts.  For what technical reason would Microsoft make this change?  I 
will add that I am using NT and I am betting more than a few dollars on a 
positive outcome with NT.
BS>
BS>...
BS>  > 
BS>  > I suppose someone can flesh out the technical details a bit better
BS>  > based on experience.  But, increasingly, the slogan, "NT: Why Both
BS>  > is hitting home.
BS>
BS>There are many reasons to "bother" with NT (over OS/2).  Good ISV supp
BS>security, superior file system, support for symmetric multiprocessing,
BS>built-in networking, built-in multimedia.
BS>
BS>OS/2 2.0 has a poor stability record and IBM has been very haphazard a
BS>keeping it up to snuff in terms of modern specs.  For example they
BS>are still charging $125 for Multimedia that is about the level of
BS>Windows 3.1's MM.

O/S 2.0 does have some stability problems but I would hardly characterize 
them as poor.

BS>
BS>BTW, I responded to your "benchmark" and haven't got an answer.
BS>In particular, I would very much like to see the breakdown figures for
BS>individual tests as I'm sure they will tell a different story from
BS>the one global one.  Also, could you tell me where I can get the same
BS>benchmark program?  I think it should be tried on different (preferabl
BS>non-IBM) hardware.
BS>

I am interested in these figures as well.  I certainly didn't expect NT to 
perform so poorly.  But again, it is only in Beta.



---
 . WinQwk 2.0 B4 #0 . Unregistered Evaluation Copy

Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: tlilley@jarthur.claremont.edu (Thomas (Ted) Lilley)
Subject: Re: Gates Interview
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 07:43:13 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.053014.20629@cs.mcgill.ca> storm@cs.mcgill.ca (Marc WANDSCHNEIDER) writes:
>
>>>- Kevin Lowey (Lowey@Sask.USask.CA)
>>>>
>>>Of course Windows can exceed DOS sales.  After all, people are
>>>abandoning MS-DOS to DR-DOS, and all the OS/2 sales are probably being
>>>counted as Windows sales by Billy Gates ...
>
>
>	There's a nice load of horse shit to keep the flames coming.
>
>	Fact:  The number of people moving from MS-DOS to DR DOS is definitely
>NOT something that BillG spends sleepless nights worrying about.
>
>	Fact:  OS/2 1.x sales are so pathetically low that I highly doubt
>that MS even bothers shipping it anymore.

He meant that every copy of OS/2 2.0 includes a copy of Windows which MS
gets paid for.  Do you understand now?

>
>>I'm sure he was referring to revenue, not unit sales.  Each Windows
>>sale brings in more revenue that each Dos sale.  I believe the quote
>>actually said they were running about <mumble>Hundred Million/Month
>>each.  That's revenue.
>
>	Thank you.
>
>	toodlepip!
>	Marc 'em.


Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: craigdo@microsoft.com (Craig Dowell)
Subject: Re: SPA Data, was Gates Interview
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:39:28 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Dec16.182244.2182@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_kupkams@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
[...]
>	perhaps you should see Hattophobic (adj); The fear that one is guilty
>of Malloying or Stugilling. Chronic condition following severe head injuries, 
>,oxygen depravation, or employment in Redmond Wa.
>
>Michael Kupka

Come on now.  Not everybody in Redmond is Kupkatatonic.

-- Craig



Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: jmalloy@itsmail1.hamilton.edu (Joseph T. Malloy)
Subject: Re: SPA Data, was Gates Interview
Organization: Hamilton College - Clinton, NY
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:09:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.142630.20546@itsmail1.hamilton.edu> jmalloy@itsmail1.hamilton.edu (Joseph T. Malloy) writes:
>In article <1992Dec12.085137.2160@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_kupkams@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>
>>I saw Will Zachmann speak last week in Houston. After is presentation, he
>>accepted questions from the audience. One of the questions posed was "How can
>>you say that there are not as many windows users as microsoft says when SPA 
>>statistics support Microsofts claims?". Mr Zachmann then explained that the
>>SPA is not an independant auditor, but rather a collector of sales data from
>>manufacturers, and that the reports that Microsoft or any other Software vendor
>>recieve from the SPA are simply the figures reported to the SPA from Software
>>Vendors.
>>
>>
>
>Okay, the SPA must have been assimilated by MicroBorgSoft.  I'm noting
>this piece of idiocy from Willi Z. so that when someone tries to claim
>at some point that OS/2 software sales are strong or growing and uses
>the SPA's figures we call all point out that the SPA issues only
>unreliable data.  And all corporations whose initials are IBM lie all
                                                          ^
                                                          not

>the time, I guess. (BTW, do you trust *anybody* in business to tell the
>absolute truth all the time?) 
>
>Zachmania: (noun) the inability to think straight about anything having 
>to do with OS's; to go off the deep end; to lose all credibility.
>
>jmalloy@hamilton.edu
>      
>
Geez, you'd think I'd have learned to type by now.  How about just
proofreading?

jmalloy@hamilton.edu
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Rude behavior on this group.
Date: 18 Dec 1992 15:28:55 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Distribution: na
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Dec17.185340.29798@mksol.dseg.ti.com>  
mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
> In <1992Dec17.170011.23616@cbnewsh.cb.att.com>  
rkl@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (kevin.laux) writes:
> >	Complaints of a lot of people?  Who said so?  And how does HE  
know?
> 
> Geez, all you have to do is LISTEN.  Why do you think this keeps
> coming up as a thread; serendipity?

Oh come now. You aren't actually extrapolating based on the folks
you see complaining here, are you?  Let's face it: if anybody
posts, "how is product XX" and, in reality 995 people think it's
great, and 5 think it's bad, you'll probably get 8 people responding
here: 4 to say it stinks and 4 to say they like it. Do you
then extrapolate to say that 50% of the users think it stinks?

The vast majority of the evidence is that most people want 
Windows bundled with new machines. They want to use Windows.
(All those Windows apps that are popping up everywhere and selling
well aren't made up, you know. It's not some conspiracy on the
part of PC Connection, MicroWarehouse, Egghead, etc. to stock there
shelves with things that don't sell, just for the fun of it.)

--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  

Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: brian@jaguar.cs.utah.edu (Brian Sturgill)
Subject: Re: os/2 PDK cd-rom license
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 20:54:33 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.181849.1201@kvamdata.no> ekl@kvamdata.no (Eirik Lygre) writes:
>In article <1992Dec12.043928.28866@fcom.cc.utah.edu> brian@jaguar.cs.utah.edu (Brian Sturgill) writes:
>>
>> [quote from cd-rom, stating license expiring on December 15]
>>
>>As I've said all along, the PDK expires on December 15, and is not
>>nearly as nice a deal as what Microsoft offers with its $69 SDK.  This
>>PDK is the same as the one they were selling for $15, and that was the
>>CD-ROM originally discussed in this thread.  Now if you're telling me
>>they're giving something different elsewhere, then I want to hear about
>>it, but I strongly suspect you've just overlooked the expiration date.
>
>There has been a total of three CD-ROMs in the PDK series yet. First, 
>there was an early version of the october cd-rom, then there was a
>rerun (which I have), and then there is the yellow november edition.
>
>Neither the second run of the october cd-rom nor the november cd-rom
>(I have both) expires on a certain day. I'd rather not type the entire
>text from the cd-rom or its cover -- please just trust me.
>
>One very important difference should be notet, though. The IBM PDK only
>contains beta code, and release versions are withdrawn from the next
>cd. This applies, for example, to the IBM LanServer 3.0, which existed
>in beta form on the october cd, but was withdrawn from the november cd, 
>since the product was about to be shipped.

So, this means that the new versions expire when the release version comes
out?
If so, then there's no real difference.  The author of the post that
started this thread believe that IBM was giving him full use of about
> $2,000 worth of software for $15.  This clearly isn't so?

Brian
-- 
C. Brian Sturgill                          NeXTStep 486 is for _YOU_!!!!
University of Utah                    Microsoft needs competition, but I want
Center for Software Science          to be one of the many running Windows NT!
brian@cs.utah.edu; CIS: 70363,1373    :-) :-) :-)  NT SDK: $69; (800) 227-4679
Xref: sparky comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy:3163 comp.os.os2.advocacy:10157
From: sip1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Timothy F. Sipples)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Gates Interview
Date: 13 Dec 92 17:08:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: midway.1992Dec13.170833.11467
Reply-To: sip1@midway.uchicago.edu
Followup-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Organization: Dept. of Econ., Univ. of Chicago

In article <1992Dec13.053014.20629@cs.mcgill.ca> storm@cs.mcgill.ca (Marc WANDSCHNEIDER) writes:
>	Fact:  OS/2 1.x sales are so pathetically low that I highly doubt
>that MS even bothers shipping it anymore.

Every copy of Microsoft LAN Manager and Microsoft SQL Server comes
with Microsoft OS/2 Version 1.3.

Or are you suggesting that Microsoft LAN Manager isn't selling too
well?  :-)

-- 
Timothy F. Sipples      | Read the OS/2 FAQ List 2.0h, available from
sip1@ellis.uchicago.edu | 128.123.35.151, anonymous ftp, in /pub/os2/all/info
Dept. of Econ., Univ.   | /faq, or from LISTSERV@BLEKUL11.BITNET (send "HELP")
of Chicago, 60637       | [Read the List, THEN post to ONE OS/2 newsgroup.]
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: johnsd2@jec315.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Subject: Re: "Windoze" slow? Naah...Re: pc and mac:
Reply-To: johnsd2@jec315.its.rpi.edu.its1
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 02:27:44 GMT

In article 18121@speedy.aero.org, jrg@punch (James R. Goble) writes:
>In article <Bz3x7z.1LD@unix.amherst.edu> hjwulfso@unix.amherst.edu (Harris  
>Wulfson) writes:
>> Iskandar Taib (ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
>> 
>> } are gurus anyhow. I also have to know quite a bit about Macs since 
>> } we have an equal number of Macs and Mac users. I try to avoid them 
>> } for my own work as much as possible however - they just annoy me 
>> } too much. The exception is MacDraw II - I wish Claris would hurry 
>> } up and port it to Windows.
>> 
>> Imagine that. MacDraw for Windows! I don't think it will happen
>> because Claris is a spinoff of Apple Computer.
>> 
>> --
>> Harris Wulfson
>> hjwulfson@amherst.edu
>
>Don't be too sure Harris, stranger things have happened!  Claris is indeed  
>considering producing PC Windows ports.  It may be time to switch to Sun  
>SparcClassic's.
>

It isn't just considering anymore. Filemaker Pro for Windows is out there
already (or so I've heard in the usual mags)

Yes folks... the Evil Claris is Coming For You... :)

---
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

These opinions have had all identifiying marks removed, and are untraceable.
You'll never know whose they are.
From: tsornas@dec5.ulb.ac.be (Thierry Sornasse)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows easy to use!
Date: 14 Dec 92 17:36:22 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Free University Brussels  - Belgium -  Department of Molecular Biology

Hi networkers,

I think that is a good example that children are more sensible than grown-ups. I used to teach some basic
skill on computer to the fellows in my labs, and actually, I am not sure that it would be possible to do
something usable with those folks.
By the way, don't forget to backup your hard disk. Children are able to imagine new games that you won't
be able to forecast.

Thierry Sornasse                       Elm:tsornas@ulb.ac.be
Universite Libre de Bruxelles
BELGIUM

"Don't tell my mother I play with computer"
Xref: sparky comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy:3148 comp.os.os2.advocacy:10089
From: z_kupkams@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: SPA Data, was Gates Interview
Date: 12 Dec 92 08:51:37 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1992Dec10.184840.22816@microsoft.com>, dwightm@microsoft.com (Dwight Matheny) writes:
>>>> Excuse me, but how can Widows sales exceed DOS sales?  Windows needs
>>>> DOS to run!!  A little bit of piracy perhaps?
> 
> I think Bill was referring to the latest SPA (Software Publisher Assoc) application
> sales #s, which we all watch here at MS. For example, the latest data compares
> Sept of '91 units and revenue to Sept of '92. From a units perpective, DOS apps
> are down 3%, Windows apps units have increased by 168%, and OS/2 apps have increased
> by 33%. This data also shows us that OS/2 apps units volume represented only 2.59%
> of Windows apps volume in Sept of '91, and that this has gone down even further in
> Sept of '92, to 1.28%.
> 
> -Dwight (MS)
> 
I saw Will Zachmann speak last week in Houston. After is presentation, he
accepted questions from the audience. One of the questions posed was "How can
you say that there are not as many windows users as microsoft says when SPA 
statistics support Microsofts claims?". Mr Zachmann then explained that the
SPA is not an independant auditor, but rather a collector of sales data from
manufacturers, and that the reports that Microsoft or any other Software vendor
recieve from the SPA are simply the figures reported to the SPA from Software
Vendors.

	Basically if XYZ corp reports to the SPA that they shipped/sold 10
million units of Widgets++, then ABC corp, PDQ corp, and Ziff Davis are told
that XYZ corp shipped 10 million copies of Widgets++.

There is no verification of sales data from companies that report figures to
the SPA. SPA data is only as accurate as the reporting company is honest. I
don't think I need to say any more about the integrity of corporations under
FTC investigation.

Michael S. Kupka
=============================================================================
Thank-You Bill Gates, You are the MVP of TEAM OS/2. Without Microsoft, IBM has
finally delivered the Best Operating System an Intel user could want.
=============================================================================  


Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: ekl@kvamdata.no (Eirik Lygre)
Subject: os/2 PDK cd-rom license
Organization: Kvam data as
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 18:18:49 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.043928.28866@fcom.cc.utah.edu> brian@jaguar.cs.utah.edu (Brian Sturgill) writes:
>
> [quote from cd-rom, stating license expiring on December 15]
>
>As I've said all along, the PDK expires on December 15, and is not
>nearly as nice a deal as what Microsoft offers with its $69 SDK.  This
>PDK is the same as the one they were selling for $15, and that was the
>CD-ROM originally discussed in this thread.  Now if you're telling me
>they're giving something different elsewhere, then I want to hear about
>it, but I strongly suspect you've just overlooked the expiration date.

There has been a total of three CD-ROMs in the PDK series yet. First, 
there was an early version of the october cd-rom, then there was a
rerun (which I have), and then there is the yellow november edition.

Neither the second run of the october cd-rom nor the november cd-rom
(I have both) expires on a certain day. I'd rather not type the entire
text from the cd-rom or its cover -- please just trust me.

One very important difference should be notet, though. The IBM PDK only
contains beta code, and release versions are withdrawn from the next
cd. This applies, for example, to the IBM LanServer 3.0, which existed
in beta form on the october cd, but was withdrawn from the november cd, 
since the product was about to be shipped.
 
>Brian
>-- 
>C. Brian Sturgill                          NeXTStep 486 is for _YOU_!!!!
>University of Utah                    Microsoft needs competition, but I want
>Center for Software Science          to be one of the many running Windows NT!
>brian@cs.utah.edu; CIS: 70363,1373    :-) :-) :-)  NT SDK: $69; (800) 227-4679

Eirik

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eirik Lygre                                     Phone:    +47 4 623766
Kvam data as                                    Fax  :    +47 4 623985
PO Box 1101 Lura                                Email: ekl@kvamdata.no
N-4301  SANDNES, NORWAY
======================================================================
Xref: sparky comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy:3211 comp.sys.mac.advocacy:3331
From: jmalloy@itsmail1.hamilton.edu (Joseph T. Malloy)
Subject: Re: Gates Interview - 640k Limit
Organization: Hamilton College - Clinton, NY
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:16:09 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.054715.28689@dmp.csiro.au> lachlan@dmp.csiro.au (Lachlan Cranswick) writes:
>rwh@moose.cccs.umn.edu (RICHARD HOFFBECK) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Dec11.030952.12486@dmp.csiro.au>, lachlan@dmp.csiro.au (Lachlan Cranswick) writes:
>
>[stuff deleted]
>
>>I tried Windows 3.0 on a 386/16 and it was barely usable but Windows 3.1
>>has been doing just fine.  For about 1.5 Mb of disk space I got a faster
>>product (I believe it also consumes less memory) with OLE, Truetype font
>>support and much more stable network support.  Not bad for about $5
>>worth of disk space.
>
>Have you tried running Windows with your machine stuffed
>full of network drivers high and low giving you only
>~500k of memory.  Both my work and home PC's are 486-33s.
>My "vanilla" home machine runs windows quite fast; however, with
>all the drivers, excluded memory etc, my work machine 
>runs windows only half to a third as fast.  The work machine also
>has 12 Meg more RAM (20Meg) but identical Tseng labs VGA cards.
>
>
My 486/33 with 8 MB RAM runs Windows 3.1 just as swiftly after the
installation of the network card and its associated drivers as it did
before. (I'm left with about 520K before I start Windows).  Perhaps you
have something set up wrong?  or perhaps it's a function of your network
installation?  

I have plenty of DOS memory under Windows to run the apps I need, so
there's no problem here.  I wish you the luck I've had...

jmalloy@hamilton.edu
From: paul@svl.cdc.com (Paul Kohlmiller)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: porting to windows
Summary: Need help in porting to windows, PC help in general
Keywords: windows mac
Date: 11 Dec 92 23:57:48 GMT

If this is the wrong group please let me know where I should go.
I am a Mac person but I'm trying not to be a Mac bigot. I need to
move a Mac app to the PC, at least to Windows 3.1 and maybe to DOS.
Question#1: What kind of PC should I get? Is 4Mb RAM enough? I guess I
can use a 386 CPU but should I go to a 486 right away? In the future I
would like to put NextSTEP on the PC and that will require a 486 anyway.
What other things should I look for in regards to slots, Power supply,
required software, etc. I probably need to add an Ethernet card to the PC.
Anything I should know about these?
Question#2: Porting from the Mac to the PC is not trivial and many people
must have gone through this. Is there some book that covers this in a 
reasonable manner?
Question#3: MS Programmer's Workbench cannot do a compile without giving a
message that says an unimplemented instruction was attempted, close Windows,
reboot, etc. Sometimes it says that file c13216.exe cannot be executed. This
sounds like something rather fundamental is wrong. Any ideas? Bad ROM?
thnx in advance
Paul Kohlmiller
--
     // Paul H. Kohlmiller             //  "Cybers, Macs and Mips"    //
     // Control Data Systems, Inc.    // Internet: paul@svl.cdc.com  //
     // Acronym under construction.  // America Online: Paul CDC    //
     // All comments are strictly my own. I won't lie but my       //
     // perception of reality is at best a personal hunch.        //
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Rude behavior on this group.
Date: 15 Dec 1992 20:19:09 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Distribution: world,local
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Dec15.183951.23430@mksol.dseg.ti.com>  
mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
> And you can bet that those costs are 'passed through', or you're
> looking at a vendor who won't be in business very long.
> 

Only true if you are talking all the costs for the machine,
not just the incremental cost of adding Windows. If, say, 
it costs a company $15 dollars to add Windows to each
of their machines, they can, as you say, charge $15 more (or
even more than that) for the machine. Or they can eat that
cost if they think that they will sell umpty more machines
by having Windows on the machine as a standard (and this DOES
sell machines). They make slightly less ($15) on each machine but
make more money overall by selling lots more machines.

--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  

Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy