From: tonyl@vcd.hp.com (Tony Long)
Subject: Epistomological Discontinuity
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 23:21:02 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard VCD
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

[ Article crossposted from hp.misc.religion ]
[ Author was Tony Long ]
[ Posted on Wed, 30 Dec 1992 23:16:38 GMT ]


Chuck Coen (coen@hpcc01.corp.hp.com) wrote:
: >I would like to know why so many people believe in god without
: >the slightest evidence for one?  I am amazed that people who
: >apply an empirical view to their daily lives can so easily 
: >suspend that view when it comes to gods.
: >
: >I would appreciate any comments about this epistomological
: >inconsistency.
: 
: If you wish to discuss this subject, you will need to present some 
: irrefutable evidence to show that God can not possibly exist.
: 
: And since you opened the discussion, the burden of presentation rests with you.
	I'd like to put in my $.02 worth as one who has run the gamut from
	devout agnostic to devout christian to qualified skeptic!
	*WARNING*: This is quite a lengthy dissertation!

	First, I think the original question is very reasonable: why
believe in God? Where is the evidence? It's not fair to insist that a 
skeptic or agnostic prove his position; if he's asking an honest
question, then the believer has an opportunity as well as a spiritual
obligation to provide an intelligent answer.

	Belief in God, though, can't be narrowed down to empirical proof.
God can't be seen, you can't point to something concrete and say 
"this is God"; by nature he transcends nature and the realm of things 
which are "proveable". In a sense, belief in God is similar to belief in
evolution (although on a much higher level): you don't have "proofs"; you
have *evidence*.

	Children have no problem believing in God, providing they are
presented with his existence at a young age by those they trust. If
raised with this belief, they will often have little problem supporting
their faith as adults, unlike a myth such as Santa Claus. However, a
thinking adult should examine his faith: rather than merely accept
the existence of God because he/she was told to as a child, the adult
owes it to himself to seek and find the evidences and the spiritual
reality that becomes his/her personal "proof".

	What evidence? When the believer looks at a blade of grass,
s/he sees a thing of such beautiful and intricate design that it seems
foolish to suppose that it developed "by chance". Look at a butterfly,
a bird, the marvels of the human body and soul, the delicate balance
of creation, and you see signs of Intelligence. When humans create
a machine, we marvel at the intelligence that went into its' conception
and development; we would scoff at the idea that given time, materials
and environment this machine would create itself! And yet in the cosmos
there is a greater design and balance as well as craftsmanship than
humans could ever duplicate! Which of us could ever create a blade of 
grass, much less the wonders of a human baby or the consciousness of the
human soul. Go ahead and try!

	The believer takes a *natural* law seriously: matter if left
to itself tends to go from order to chaos (as do people, by the way!).
Life, order, the design of the cosmos don't just spring out of nothing!
Take sterile dirt and sterile water, put it in a vacuum and no matter
what you do to it, a living organism (distinct from a chemical formation)
will not appear. Doesn't it take a great amount of faith to believe that
this living system on earth appeared out of sterile dirt and gasses?
The believer considers it far more reasonable to accept the idea that
a being of spiritual power and intelligence designed, formed, and quickened
the universe and life as we know it. Just because you can't *see* or
(knowingly) *feel* the power of God doesn't justify closing your eyes
to the signs of his mind and power, granted, though, that the interpretation
of these things is wide open!

	The jew and the christian go much farther in their belief (assuming
that they accept the biblical records as historically reliable): they
believe that throughout history God has *acted* and revealed himself in
the affairs of men, providing proof of his existence and power. If you
had been with Moses on Mount Sinai and heard the voice of God and seen
him creating the tablets of the law in stone, or if you had been in
the camp of Israel and seen the pillar of smoke and fire constantly
leading them through the desert, or if you had been present at the
parting of the Red Sea, you would have been hard pressed to deny the 
existence of God! Granted that today these accounts are dissected, 
debated and denied by atheists, agnostics and skeptics, but that is because
they *won't* accept the possibility of God's power in their unbelieving
world view: many intelligent and thinking people refuse to rule out
the possibility of a transcendent being of power and intelligence existing
and acting in the earth. The believer embraces these records of God's
acts as fact, and therefore as proof. Nonbelievers have every right to
refuse to accept the biblical accounts, and to dismiss them as myths,
but bear in mind that in many cases they were written by eye witnesses
or second hand historians, and that the events of God's actions continued
to be witnessed over centuries of biblical history--not at all typical 
of your usual religious mythology. To categorically deny their historical
factuality takes real *faith*: a refusal to accept the possibility of
God. The openminded individual will certainly question or even doubt,
but should not shut the door of possibility lightly!

	A christian's "spiritual history", of course, departs from judaism
with the coming of Jesus. We have in the christian Bible multiple reports
gathered from first or second hand accounts, of this unique man. Even
many unbelievers, discounting the idea of Jesus' "divinity", remain
impressed by the profundity of his life and his teaching: "No man ever 
spoke like this!". And yet, Jesus himself pronounced that we should
not believe in him just because of his words, but also because his deeds
were, in fact, the very works of God. In all the accounts of his life,
which were garnered from eyewitness reports, the records may vary in the
minor details but agree in the nature of his extraordinary works: he
healed the sick, freed the tormented, and even brought the dead back to
life. You may freely doubt the veracity of these accounts, but I have
never seen any account from a witness of Jesus' life dispute these
claims--not even Jesus' Jewish contemporaries! Furthermore, these were
not just magical hocus-pocus or metaphysical spoon-bending; these acts
perfectly reflected the works and the nature of God as had been recorded 
all through the previous centuries. Again, the believer makes a choice to
accept these historical records as true, even as we accept the accounts,
say, of the American revolution as true, and even more fundamentally
impacting on human consciousness and history: we accept them as proof 
that God exists, and furthermore chose to reveal himself uniquely in the
man Jesus.

	Finally, those who choose to believe in Jesus and in the biblical
account of his death and resurrection (again witnessed by hundreds) have
further proof available to them: the inner "presence" or "quickening"
of the Spirit of God, and experiences of His power. Now to the skeptic
or the unbeliever this sounds very subjective and ethereal, and normally
a believer can't "demonstrate" God's presence in his life. But, to the
individual believer, the inner presence of God is as real as the air 
s/he breathes, and is the inner "evidence" that faith is not without
substance. 

	The christian Bible states as well, from the promise of
Jesus through the letters of the apostles, that believers who experience
this indwelling presence may also experience God's power in various
ways that may indeed be evident to others: chiefly in dramatic character
changes that begin to reflect the love, joy and peace of God (which, 
because it requires deep cooperation and surrender on the part of the
individual, has been sadly lacking in much of "christendom" throughout
history), but also in works that are to reflect the works that Jesus
himself did in his life, showing Gods' love for humanity and power
in wonderful ways. Many are now christians because of a remarkable
experience of answered prayer, healing of sickness, or dramatic relief
of a mental or emotional condition which had previously been beyond their
power to fight. Many of these experiences have been documented with
medical testimony, and serve to great numbers as further evidence
of the existence and love of a real God. Again, many will understandably
be skeptical, but would it not be wise to fully investigate before
denying the possibility? Even many christians fall to such skepticism
and thereby potentially shut themselves out from benefits that the
Bible clearly promised.

	In the final analysis, no one has the right to dictate the 
beliefs and/or the personal religion or morals to another in this
polycultural society: we are neither a christian country (I'm sure
many believers will disagree, but the founding fathers were by no
means homogenous in their religion) nor an atheistic country. Unspeak-
able tragedy has resulted when one group of people has pitted their
religious beliefs against another, from the crusades through the
wholesale slaughter of innocents during the time of the Reformation,
down to the psychological civil wars brewing in places such as Oregon
and Colorado where christians have sought to legislate their moral
perspectives and signal out groups of nonbelievers for legal sanctions.
However, this should not rule out the possible reality of the existence
of God and his active involvement in the affairs of men!

		Sorry for the *length* of this essay,
		I'll try to do better next time!

			Love and Kisses,

			Tony


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