From: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Knowing Hashem
Date: 30 Jul 92 04:36:01 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/18.0 - Midrash, Denver CO


 PAB> From: pab1@quads.uchicago.edu (paul andrew braier)
 PAB> Message-ID: <1992Jul29.163553.12416@midway.uchicago.edu>
 PAB> Bill Carlson wrote ... about the field of diamonds...
 PAB> ...the evil men 'goyim/gentiles'.He must intend them to represent
 PAB> the Romans and/or early Christians. The Romans were indeed evil
 PAB> people, and their colonial...and lootings certainly were robbery.
      From the 4th Century "Roman" Church, even up to the present day;
      but NOT all the "Catholics" through out history, nor all the
      "Church" as a whole; but sadly... TOO large a part of it!
 PAB> ...their ignorance must refer to the gentiles' lack of
 PAB> understanding of Judaism.
      Well, not specificly.  More that they didn't understand Spiritual
      things in general.  But the reff. was more to the passage in
      Tanakh; I think it was the Ninevah-ites that Jonah was sent to,
      that didn't know their left from their right hand.  That was to
      illustrate a bankrupt 'Spiritual condition', in general.
 PAB> That these 'folks' didn't know the difference between right and
 PAB> left could also mean that they represent Messianic 'Jews', who
 PAB> don't know Judaism from Christianity.
      Ah come on now!  And when you were on such a roll :-)  Messianic
      Jews know the diff. between Gentile-expressions of Christianity-
      (both true and false); Messianic Judaic forms of Belief; and
      modern Rabbinic Judaism; and ancient Biblical Judaism.
 PAB> I deleted the description of the old man. He is supposed to be
 PAB> Jesus.  It is true that the Romans killed him.
      Well, it was supposed to represent the 1st century Jewish
      Believers, [in type]; but I guess it could fit Y'shua somewhat.
 PAB> Christian brutality toward the Jews is quite well documented. I
 PAB> don't need to go into the gory details of the Inquisition, the
 PAB> Crusades, pogroms and other Christian acts.  The captives
 PAB> obviously are a reference to the forced conversions, that is, the
 PAB> result of 'missionary' work.
      That is right; by FALSE missionary work!  The following few of
      your observations are close; so toward the end of your article:
 PAB> This is apparently _Mr._Carlson's_ view of Christianity. My story
 PAB> was only an attack on missionaries and their poison. ...I suppose
 PAB> that its easier to assault an institution from the inside. It was
 PAB> never my intent to attack Christianity as a whole, just one
 PAB> activity practiced by a few of its more fanatic adherents.
      It's only my viewpoint on PARTS of so called "Christianity" too;
      and NOT my intention to attack "Christianity as a whole" either.
 PAB> I will not allow myself to be bound and gagged like the poor Jew
 PAB> in my story was, or the captives in Mr. Carlson's story were....
      That's right, and neither should you...never forget!  The entire
      Midrash was to illustrate the difference between someone who told
      you of a find of REAL diamonds; and those who tried to force you
      into taking FAKE ones!  You see Sha'ul/(Paul): as soon as someone
      tries to FORCE you - what they have is then NOT real, but FAKE!
      Tell me about something -fine! Force me into something -gaetavek!
      There were also "good gentiles/goyim" on the road too; but that
      comes later in the Darash/homily :-)  The Jewish people, [in
      general, as a whole]; have NOT rejected the "Jewish Messiah"
      Y'shua!  As the "messiah" they've been presented, all too often,
      down through the centuries, has been a hateful false-messiah
      whose followers would kill their children, and rape their wives!
      That type of "messiah" I don't want/need either!  But, if that
      man on the road had been presented with this "type" of false
      messiah FIRST, -(before being approached by the 'three men of
      Israel', about the REAL-Messiah), do you think he'd even stop
      to listen? ...{at least it must surely make it more difficult
      for him to automaticly take them at their word, I'd think!}  I
      hope folks get some kind of a lesson from this!        Shalom

--  
Bill Carlson - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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