HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Joel Sax <jsax@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Date: 10 Nov 92 09:06 PST
Subject: Burnout
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1744600026:000:2509
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!jsax    Nov 10 09:06:00 1992


From: Joel Sax <jsax>
Subject: Burnout

/* Written 11:31 pm  Nov  9, 1992 by dfinke@igc.apc.org in igc:gen.quaker */
/* ---------- "Burnout" ---------- */
[Since I just wrote this up for our newsletter, and the bytes are committed
to electronic media, why not let my Q.E.P. Friends know about it too?]
========
*Forum on dealing with burn-out*

Paul Schobernd from Bloomington-Normal, travelling as a field secretary for 
Illinois Yearly Meeting, recently led 14 Friends in a consideration of how 
our lives get burdened in taking on too many good things and then 
experiencing exhaustion, finding ourselves out of balance.  Although the 
secular world has many ideas (and many for-hire gurus) advising us on how 
properly to control our lives with diet, sleep, exercise, yoga, and 
time-management techniques, Paul suggested some spiritual dimensions to the 
burn-out phenomenon:  If we do not stay in touch with a quiet, centered 
place --our Source of power-- our multiplicity of activities can become 
chaos.   Being a Quaker is like a playing a guitar -- it is easy to do, but 
hard to do well, and takes years of practice.

Many Friends shared personal testimonies in the worshipful atmosphere set 
by hearing Thomas Kelly's vision from *Testament of Devotion*.  A Friend 
sojourning from England spoke of the challenges of finding what's *really* 
important to do, and what one can let go.  Several spoke of the blessings 
of being able to ask and receive the support of other Friends in discerning 
what we are called to do, and how we can be present for one another.

An approach Paul has found helpful is to look at the totality of our lives, 
how it all fits into our unique personal portrait --which are the colors we 
choose and don't choose.  He recommended keeping in mind 6 elemental 
phrases, as suggested and practiced by massage-therapist John Calvi: "I 
love you.  Thank you.  I need help.  I'm sorry.  That's not good enough.  
[and] Stop it."   We were reminded that most of these advices relate also 
to the challenges of parenting, and that there are dimensions of burn-out 
and unfair demands that are uniquely experienced by women, even as there 
are special challenges experienced in the rapidly-changing world of paying 
work.   Friends felt that the depth of frankness and authenticity we shared 
in our time together with Paul was particularly valuable, moving us closer 
in our experience of commmunity.
                                                                     --DF
From: andyrose@netcom.com (San Francisco Fractal Factory)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Re: List question
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:01:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Nov5.180150.10355
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

wall@cc.swarthmore.edu (Matthew Wall) writes:
> Howdy. I've been on quaker-l for a while now, and I'm glad to see the net
> list got approved and created.
> 
> Question: is there any overlap with quaker-l here? Should we do
> "cross-postings" or try to keep the usenet group completely separate? 
> 
> I'm trying to decide whether to cancel my mail subscription...
> 
> - Matt
> 
> "I don't think I want to live in a country where George Bush gets to go to
> the all-star game and Cecil Fielder doesn't." - R Rappaport

Please don't cancel your mail until you are sure.  Things are still
in the early stages.

Discusssion regarding cross posting generally lead towards individuals
taking responsibility and not relying on cross posting either way.
It is clear that quaker-l could not handle all the stuff here,
and it is clear that some stuff on quaker-l is simply not meant for 
the entire NEWS community.


-- 
Andrew Rose andyrose@netcom.com FAX   end killing
From: ELLEN@PURCCVM.BITNET
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Re: Quakers and homosexuality
Date: 8 Nov 92 00:32:48 GMT
 <josh.720747208@mowgli> <BxBCpx.63D@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
Organization: Purdue University


   I have been pondering the formalities of same-sex social bonds, and
have been trying to come up with some other word than 'marriage' to
describe the loving lifelong committment of two people who are of the
same sex.  'Marriage' has always implied procreation, and I think it
should be reserved for heterosexual ceremonies.  So here are some
possibilities:  CAREIAGE, SPOUSESHIP, SO (esso, for significant othered)
... actually, I would like to see a whole new line of titles:  Sig to replace
Mr, Ms and Miss ("I'm a Significant, looking for an Other...'), SO to
replace Mr and Mrs, and possibly Fam for parents and children (whether
adopted or whatever).  This would imply that after the children have left
the nest and become Sigs, the parents would revert to SOs (kind of romantic
for the golden years...).
From: nelson@crynwr.com (Russell Nelson)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: What do they do? 
Distribution: world
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 92 04:27:33 GMT
Organization: Crynwr Software

In article <BwzvtL.IMu@acsu.buffalo.edu> v128juxa@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu writes:

   Take Nathanael Greene, Oliver Hazard Perry and Richard Nixon for instance.
   Greene was a great Revolutionary officer, Perry was the Hero of Lake Erie
   during the War of 1812, and Nixon was responsible for further US involvement
   in the Vietnam War.

Ahem.  Nixon is not considered by many to be a model Quaker.  :)

-russ <nelson@crynwr.com> What canst *thou* say?
Crynwr Software           Crynwr Software sells packet driver support.
11 Grant St.              315-268-1925 Voice  |  LPF member - ask me about
Potsdam, NY 13676         315-268-9201 FAX    |  the harm software patents do.
From: hedrick@geneva.rutgers.edu (Charles Hedrick)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Re: Quaker preists? was What do they do?
Date: 9 Nov 92 05:34:07 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

emigh@unity.ncsu.edu (Ted Emigh) writes:

>In article <1992Oct29.205928.21179@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> mhumes@nyx.cs.du.edu (Malcolm Humes) writes:
>>briggs@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Allen `X is kinda cool' Briggs) writes:

>>>I'd like to hear from anyone who has been in a Friends Meeting with a
>>>pastor/preacher.  I have only heard rumors about such services, and I'm
>>>curious to know how such services differ from silent meetings.  It seems
>>>to me that there is more than a superficial difference.

>As a curiosity, I have found that most Churches in the North Carolina
>Yearly Meeting (FUM) have a pastor who graduated from a Baptist Seminary
>(often Southeastern, although is has changed radically in recent years).
>Often they have only rudimentary understanding of Quakers and Quakerism.
...

I should warn you that I'm a Presbyterian.  However I attended the
Haverford Friends Meeting when I was an undergraduate for a couple of
years.  The Cincinnati Friends meeting is located within a few hundred
yards of where my family used to live, and I attended it once or
twice.  The Haverford meeting was (at least in the prehistoric times
when I was in school) a silent meeting.  Cincinnati had a pastor, and
an organ.  However it was still recognizably Quaker.  A good portion
of the service was based on silence.  As far as I could determine from
brief contact, the overall impression given by the meeting was still
similar to the Haverford meeting.  I would assume that Quaker pastors
would do what more conventional Protestant pastors do.  After all, a
pastor only spends an hour a week in church.  The rest of his time is
spent counselling, teaching, providing staff support for his
congregation's ministries, etc.  I would think that Friends would want
to be very careful to avoid judging other Friends because of
differences in style.
From: Jim Lynch <jlynch@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Date: 07 Nov 92 19:06 PST
Subject: Re: Shakers vs. Quakers
Nf-ID: #R:1csqorINNbkr@agate.berkeley.edu:-1929116054:cdp:1744600023:000:2150
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!jlynch    Nov  7 19:06:00 1992


The Sabbathday Lake Shaker community continues to farm the community's
land, has restarted an earlier herb business, sells handmade and craft
items in the store, operates a Shaker museum during tourist season,
publishes the _Shaker Quarterly_ and continues the Shaker Press
publishing both new and reprint titles, leaflets and pamphlets.  When I
visited a year or so ago there were seven people living in community and
their public worship services were well attended by neighbors and
students from nearby Bates College.

The Sabbathday Lake Shakers have just released their 1992 "Christmas
Supplement" -- a catalog listing the various culinary herbs, herbal
teas, herbal vinegars, potpourris, and Shaker rose water made from
plants grown at the community, yarns spun from the fleece of sheep in
Sabbathday Lake's flock, and pecan stuffed date candies.  Books
available include both books about Shakers by other publishers,
including the new volume from Yale University Press--_The Shaker
Experiment in America_ by Stephen Stein, cassettes of Shaker music, as
well as publications, reprints and notecards from Shaker Press.  They
have recently reprinted a couple of hymnals in use in Shaker communities
in the 1890s, _Original Shaker Music_.

The annual Christmas Fair is Saturday, December 5, 1992 from 10 a.m. to
3 p.m. at the Shaker Store, Sabbathday Lake Shaker Village, Route 26,
New Gloucester, Maine.  At the Christmas Fair there will be homemade
Shaker wheat bread, Shaker fruit cakes, herb biscuits, candies and other
goodies, books, calendars, posters, cheese, pickles, apples, Shaker syle
furniture, Shaker antiques, woodcrafts and oval boxes, herbal wreaths,
evergreen wreaths, herbal teas, culinary herbs, herbal vinegars, rose
water, and aromatic potpourris.

For a catalog or further information contact:

        United Society of Shakers
        RR #1, Box 640
        Poland Spring, Maine 04274
        207-926-4597

--Jim Lynch                                        Rochester, New York

Peacenet: jlynch        Fidonet: 1:260/222.2          GEnie: J.LYNCH21
Internet: jlynch@rochgte.fidonet.org       or       jlynch@igc.apc.org
From: josh@cqs.washington.edu (Josh Hayes)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Re: Reactions to the new newsgroup (syrup alert!)
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:11:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: mowgli.josh.721332694
Organization: University of Washington

Since Joel says he cannot receive replies, but asks us to
reply to the group, this is a short reply:

With respect to your query about connections between Quakers
and AA (that's Alcoholics Anonymous, for those of you who
may not know), I do not believe there is an explicit connection
at any point in the history of AA, but I will ask my father,
who is a recovering alcoholic, and also a Friend. He may know....
stay tuned....

Josh

--
Josh Hayes, Quantitative Sciences HR-20 U of Washington
josh@mowgli.cqs.washington.edu             206 543-5004
      We got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand.
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Re: Quakers and homosexuality
Date: 8 Nov 92 14:59:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BxEKBw.CrL
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

<ELLEN@PURCCVM.BITNET> writes:

>   I have been pondering the formalities of same-sex social bonds, and
>have been trying to come up with some other word than 'marriage' to
>describe the loving lifelong committment of two people who are of the
>same sex.  'Marriage' has always implied procreation, and I think it
>should be reserved for heterosexual ceremonies.  So here are some
>possibilities:  CAREIAGE, SPOUSESHIP, SO (esso, for significant othered)
>... actually, I would like to see a whole new line of titles:  Sig to replace
>Mr, Ms and Miss ("I'm a Significant, looking for an Other...'), SO to
>replace Mr and Mrs, and possibly Fam for parents and children (whether
>adopted or whatever).  This would imply that after the children have left
>the nest and become Sigs, the parents would revert to SOs (kind of romantic
>for the golden years...).

Marriage has not always meant procreation.  It is, most fundamentally, an
economic contract.  Margaret and George Fox are only one example of non-
precreative couples.  Should George and Margaret have been something other
than married?  Should they have been spoused?  I doubt that this is plain
speaking.


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
From: wagner@bodie.cs.unc.edu (Michael Wagner)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Re: Burnout
Date: 13 Nov 92 15:35:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: borg.17477
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

In article <1744600026@igc.apc.org> jsax@igc.apc.org (Joel Sax) writes:
>
>From: Joel Sax <jsax>
>Subject: Burnout

One aspect of dealing with "Burnout" is prevention.  I often
sit in Quaker meetings where people are talking about "simplicity"
and seem concerned only that this means that we don't trash the
environmnet, dont buy goods from Sout Africa, and a myriad of
other things.  Then occasionally someone will talk about the 
life style of the Peace Pilgrim.

I wonder if the hardest kind of simplicity for modern Quakers
isn't a simplicity of "causes".  There are a lot of (lost and not
yet lost) causes out there that are very deserving.  If we allow
ourselves to become cause-of-the-week Ouakers, I think we face
two problems: 

	1)  We risk doing a superficial job of what we do.  This
	often means that we talk to poeple more than listen to
	them, study the situation, meditate and pray upon the
	situation and seek guidance from God.  For example, how
	many of the rabidly anti-South Africa members of your
	meeting have tried to learn Afrikaans?  How many have read
	newspapers published in South Africa, or listen to
	the shortwave service of the South African government?
	As liberals, we probably have few duties with regard to
	South Africa other than to believe whatever Jesse Jackson
	says is true about South Africa.  As Quakers,  I believe that
	we have an obligation to study and *listen* to those whom we would
	lead into the light.  

	Let me make it clear that I have nothing agaisnt Jesse 
	Jackson-- I hope Clinton finds a place in his administration 
	for Jesse.  The only reason that I pick South Africa is that
	I lived in East Africa (Mogadishu, Somalia) for a year and
	a half, and South Africa look very different from within
	Africa than it does from wthin American suburbia.

	My point is that preparing to speak truth to power in
	a God-centered way takes a lot of time.  There may be some
	who are so powerfully led by the Light that they can walk
	into a situation that they've never seen before, discern
	God's leading immediately, and move on.  I am not that 
	close to the Spirit right now, and I don't think that many
	of my fellow Quakers are either.  I suspect that when we do
	cause-of-the-week kind of social stuff, what is neglected
	is the study and prayer and meditation.
	  

	2)  I think one other result of a lack of simplicty with
	regard to political causes is burnout.  When people ask me
	about burnout, I suggest that they may hve over-reached their
	leading in matters political (or other).  I believe that 
	God will supply the energy to match His direction.  I do
	not believe He will supply the energy to match the direction 
	that comes from me.


Mike
From: Joel Sax <jsax@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Date: 06 Nov 92 09:47 PST
Subject: Re: Prison Reform
Nf-ID: #R:1992Nov5.195318.17573@netcom.com:-571014641:cdp:1744600020:000:575
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!jsax    Nov  6 09:47:00 1992


Friends and others should know that there are many ways that
one can minister to those in prison.  My wife and I are
part of Pet Assisted Therapy Services (PATS) which enables
pet owners to share their animals with those who cannot 
get out of the places they live (rest homes, special schools,
hospital wards, etc.).  We've chosen to take part in
the monthly visits to Juvenile Hall.

Many suggest, with fear, that our pets will be hurt by the
kids.  Nothing of the sort has ever happened.  The children
are inquisitive, friendly, and compassionate about our
rabbits.

Joel

Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
From: andyrose@netcom.com (San Francisco Fractal Factory)
Subject: Re: Simple Gifts (was Re: Shakers vs. Quakers)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:46:21 GMT

> 
> 	When true simplicity is gained,
> 	to bow and to bend we shan't be ashamed.
> 	To turn and to turn will be our delight,
> 	'til by turning, turning we come round right.


This is how 'we' learned it at Camp Onas in Pa.

Any other Onas grads out there?

Cabel, Danny, Robin, etc?


-- 
Andrew Rose andyrose@netcom.com FAX   end killing
From: andyrose@netcom.com (San Francisco Fractal Factory)
Subject: FAQ minute
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:22:32 GMT

I do not know how to facilitate an automatic posting
of an article but I'm sure I could find out.  If you know please
tell me.  

I think this document would be a great place to start
our 'group' process.  Propose a document, request
discussion, do it again.

Let me say firstly that I think there is only
minimal room for HISTORY in the FAQ.  A second
'Intro to Quakerism, or Quake 101' could be
posted regularly.

so here it is:
Frequently Asked Questions soc.religion.quaker

How do I find out about Quakers?
  The center of the quaker faith is the flowering of
spirituality, in the practice of silent meetings for
worship broken occasionally by spoken word.  
Inquire of the net and you will be directed.

  The history of Quakers can be found in these books:
Joel's cool bibliography. [This would be a second automatic post]

Are there some keywords to help me get my bearings about Quakers?
  from Brinton: community-harmony-equality-simplicity
  
What is the peace testimony?
  I will not bear outward arms in defense of country,
property, or person.

What is the punishment testimony?
  I will not resort to punishment as a discipline
or an educational method or sport.

What is Kant's categorical imperitive?
  One must never use another as a means to an ends.

Why is being Quaker cool/uncool?
  You can live in the light (stop denying it doesn't exist)
and be yourself.
  A quaker has an obligation or onus to follow leadings.
These can sometimes be hard.

What is a leading, how do I know I'm having one?
  Leadings are distinguished from business plans
in that usually money isn't the issue.  That is
enough these days to be considered 'crazy' and
therefor require protection.  A leading is 
'tested' by a community of concerned folks.  
Being Quaker means submitting your leadings to
the corporate body.  Some leadings are for you,
some are not for you, some are for a lot of people.

Just as you are lead to speak in meeting, you are
lead.  Follow your leadings and you will find what
they are.  

Unfortunately this doesn't sound so good.  Leadings
require faith, and you better believe it.


-- 
Andrew Rose andyrose@netcom.com FAX   end killing
From: nelson@crynwr.com (Russell Nelson)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Quaker Humor 
Distribution: world
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 92 04:54:10 GMT
Organization: Crynwr Software

In article <1992Nov3.205012.16406@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> saw@hallc1.cebaf.gov writes:

   Someone who frequently writes on various computer oriented newsgroups always
   signs his messages

   "I am proud to be a humble Quaker."

Thee lies!

   Having grown up Quaker, I am embarrased to say that for months I read
   that as a simple statement of fact rather than as a statement with
   a bit of humor in it.

:)  Never take me seriously, I certainly don't.  :)

-russ <nelson@crynwr.com> What canst *thou* say?
Crynwr Software           Crynwr Software sells packet driver support.
11 Grant St.              315-268-1925 Voice  |  LPF member - ask me about
Potsdam, NY 13676         315-268-9201 FAX    |  the harm software patents do.
From: valenza@bigq.enet.dec.com (Michael K. Valenza)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Re: BEANITE QUAKERISM
Date: 9 Nov 92 01:07:59 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


I believe that the Pacific Yearly Meeting eventually split off into other
yearly meetings. My original home meeting in Colorado Springs, for example, is
part of IMYM, Intermountain Yearly Meeting, and it traces its origins to the
Beanite Quakers.  There may be other Beanite yearly meetings as well in the
West.  These yearly meetings are unaffiliated with any larger body such as FUM
or FGC.

Mike Valenza
From: andyrose@netcom.com (San Francisco Fractal Factory)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Re: A statement by George Fox
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:57:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Nov5.175738.10098
Distribution: soc
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen) writes:
> In article <1992Oct30.164439.17625@ousrvr.oulu.fi> dah@tk12 (David Harwood)
>  writes:
> 
>    >Can this be your saying? I can't recall where Fox might have said
>    >exactly what you say, but it might be a paraphrase.
> 
>   Well, according to my fallible memory, this was the exact saying
> attributed to Fox: There is no time but this present time.

Hanging around a Food Not Bombs kitchen with abunch of folk who
don't wear watches often brings:

The time is now.

Outward Bound version:  It's daytime, or It's nighttime.

Business school doctrine holds: There is no time like the present.
also "Time is money" which is the most disgraceful, conniving, 
enslaving notion I can think of (off the top of my head).

George Fox's "No time but this present time" could be the answer
to "When should I accept that I am but a speck in the creators eye?"
or "When should I stop behaving in harmful ways towards myself"
i.e. drinking, smoking, eating murderous garbage.
or "When should I stop behaving in harmful ways towards others?"
i.e. Sexual harrasment, getting angry, punishing, etc.
or "When should I stop begin stupid and believing that the
system I live in is appropriate, the best-we-can-do, etc,
when it is actually enslaving me to a desk and a keyboard,
robbing me of my present, ruining my health, and making me
a mental case?"

The time is now.


-- 
Andrew Rose andyrose@netcom.com FAX   end killing