From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Subject: Re: Human Rights Commission 1
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 21:35:53 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

shaze@cs.ubc.ca (Scott Hazelwurst) writes:
: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:
: 
: a long criticism of the HRC, most of it rhetoric. 

Eh.
 
: Before saying anything else, I need to clear that I have
: accepted that there is HRC is biased, and that there is
: lots of room for improvement.

Most generous of you. 
 
: I have posted as a separate article, an opinion piece which
: appeared in The Star dates 22 September 1992 so you can read
: in full an analysis of the Jeffery article which Gavan
: quoted. 
  ^^^^^^

I WASN'T quoting Jeffery at all, as even a cursory glance at
my post would reveal.
 
: What Jeffery's actually said in her report was:

Actually said indeed. Nobody claimed she said anything else,
since she wasn't being quoted or even paraphrased. More
blundering Scott, tut tut.

:   "The HRC ... attributes the Crossroads massacre -- in
:   which 23 sleeping members of the IFP (including a woman and
:   two children) were killed by Xhosa-speaking men, allegedly from
:   an ANC squatter camp -- to 'vigilante related action'. It defines
:   such action as attacks by (or in defence against) surrogate
:   forces of the State, in the form of 'vigilante' provate armies
:   formed by homeland administrations or black local authorities.
:   Deaths thus laid at the door of the State are said by the HRC
:   to include the deaths of these 23 supporters."

 
: What did the HRC actually say in their report (read if for
: yourself)
:   "The victims were caught unawares by the attackers who were
:   armed with guns, petrol bombs, pangas and spears and some of
:   the victims died in their burning homes. The area waas
:   forcefully taken over by Inkatha supporters in August 1990 and
:   has remained an Inkatha stronghold since then. Among those
:   killed were a woman and two children. Witnesses reported that
:   the attackers came from the direction of the Holomisa camp.
:   The ANC disputed this, reporting that the attackers had got
:   off a train near Crossroads at 10pm and had launched the
:   attack at 10.45pm".

Heh he he heh. Caught reading a report on a report without bothering
to read the report itself. As I show in reply to the Davis nonsense
this is utter crap - Jeffery gives an even more complete paraphrase of the
HRC report. But Scott is working second-=hand here as usual, taking Denis
Davis at his word. Putzah. 

: Now the report may be criticised on a number a issues. The categorisation
: may be wrong. It may be sympathetic towards the ANC in that it
: reprots the ANC's respons. BUT: it makes quite clear that Inkatha
: was the victim; and it makes it clear that it was an ANC/Inkatha
: conflict, 

No it doesn't - it makes no such claim or linkage, merely reporting
the allegation and then the DENIAL.

: and I think the implication is clear that ANC supporters
: were responsible. So the one instance we are given is fundamentally
: flawed. 

It is classed as VRA, there is no category for ANC initiated violence at all
and no attempt is made by the HRC to pin this on the ANC. In fact
it emerges as STATE linked violence (defn of vigilante by HRC). This is how
they pin 86% of violence in April 1992 on the state via vigilantes.
Hence it never gets linked to the ANC at all. But Scott thinks this is clear.
Oh well, ...

: Had another (perhaps equally flawed) flawed instance been
: given I would not have been able to respond as I don't have the
: original HRC reports.

That's obvious. Nor do you have the Jeffery report either, which
is equally obvious.
 
: Whatever, it doesn't say much for the much vaunted analytical and
: FACTUAL (not my capitalisation) skills of Anthea Jeffery.

Thanks for that informed analysis, based on a Denis Davis report
on a report on several HRC reports.
 
: >The next enthralling installment will reveal the sleight of hand used
: >to classify violence involving unidentifiable agressors and victims
: >as VRA, with a selection of examples stretching over several years.

 
: I suppose it is a similar sleight of hand that Jeffery uses
: in selecting excerpts from an HRC report to show them in as
: bad a light as possible.

He heh, caught in the Davis trap again. you might try reading the originals
before lapping up Davis' nonsense. How embarrasing.
 
: Sorry, Gavan, I don't buy it. Your selective excerpts from Jeffery's
: selective excerpts need analysis. 

Excerpts again? Which excerpts Scott? Ah, the quotation blunder
again. tut tut. 

: I now need to go back to each
: HRC report to see what they actually said in order to verify
: Jeffery's claim.

No, you need to read Jeffery too. That way you can remove your
dependence on Denis Davis' recycled versions. How bloody
embarrasing.

: And where does it get us. You posted this in response to my challenge
: to Hardy who claimed there was a world-wide smear campaign against
: Inkatha supported by the "liberal" [his quotes not mine] press. 

No I didn't - in fact I mentioned
it in passing some drivel of yours that I can't even remember. You're
hardly worth the effort old boy - you're much better suited
to target practice. 

Gavan Tredoux
UCT