HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: slice@gagme.chi.il.us (Steve Steiner)
Subject: Re: Scoutin past
Originator: slice@gagme
Organization: Gagme Public Access UNIX, Chicago, Illinois.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 14:28:30 GMT

I remember along the same lines as the 100ft of shore line, being sent for
the following:
			a cannon report
			a left handed monkey wrench

And now as part of the Bobcat ceremony for the new boys, we turn him over
(upsidedown with his parents permission) and have the parent pin the Bobcat
badge on right side up, and as a final rite, he drink Blood (red juice)
from a bobcat.  This is all don as stated above with the permission of the
parents.

Steve Steiner
Asst. Weblos Leader, Tigers Den Pack 191
Chanonne District, DuPage Area Council Illinois


-- 
Steve Steiner             Preferred address   | Telephone: (708)860-2754 (home)
slice@gagme.chi.il.us   slice@seswho.chi.il.us|            (708)773-5864 (work)
If the elevator to success is out of order... |   Address: 564 Gilbert Drive 
Use the stairs                                |            Wood Dale IL 60191
From: rickc@pogo.wv.tek.com (Rick Clements)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: BSAvoting structure
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:46:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: pogo.13386
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.


In article <1992Aug14.031746.1795@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> naraht@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>Does anyone know what level of pressure that there was or squawks within BSA
> when the idea came up to have women in BSA (in the explorers)?

I don't know what the level of squawks were.  But, I do know that the
traditional posts (all boys, organized like an older troop) didn't go away
for many years after the the specialty posts were formed.  They both existed
for the eight years I was an Explorer.

The only squawks I heard while I was in explorers were from the Girl Scouts.
There were a lot of squawks the first few years that girls were permitted in 
Explorers.  (That's why the first few years they were participants and not
members.)  But, the Girl Scout council was VERY unhappy.

>On another topic: Who has the true decission making power in BSA. Who are the 
>"shareholders". Certainly not the scouts themselves and I don't remember my 
>parents ever voting on anything. Is it the sponsorring organizations?

Yes.

>If it is a question of whether BSA has taken federal funds for things,
>I can give a definite example. Far east council has one of its summer
>camps on the military base @ okinawa and we got certain things for free 
>from the US military. I don't have specific details but would be shocked
>this was not true elsewhere.

The military is probably one of the sponcers who are voting for status quo.

-- 
Rick Clements (RickC@pogo.WV.TEK.COM)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Levis Drops Boy Scouts...
From: klin@husc8.harvard.edu (Karin Lin)
Date: 15 Aug 92 20:14:53 EDT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1992Aug13.224425.9057@midway.uchicago.edu> pmm7@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

>i find it interesting that you equivocate protesting
>against a policy of exclusion with attempted destruction.  
>surely you aren't serious?  after all, the girl scouts 
>are inclusive of both queers and atheists, and they 
>are hardly destroyed, nor lacking in moral values, nor
>lacking in benefits for young girls/women in our society.  

I agreed with most of your article, but not this part.  I'm not sure what
the official GSUSA policy is on homosexuals, but I can say for certain that
it is *not* inclusive of atheists.  They, just like the BSA, require a 
pledge to God in their promise that is perhaps more exclusive in that it
simply states "To serve God" without much room for personal interpretation
like the Boy Scout oath which at least states "To do my duty to God".  I've
written to the National Office on this issue several times, and their only
response was "If you can't accept the Promise, quit".

I'm not entirely certain why the discriminatory policies of GSUSA haven't
received as much attention as those of BSA, and I think it's unfortunate.
My guess is that it's because Girl Scouts don't receive nearly as much
publicity as Boy Scouts in general, or perhaps because not as many Girl
Scouts have risen to bring up the issue.  It's really a sad thing that
both Scout organizations that do so much for young people have to adhere
to traditions of discrimination and intolerance.

-- Karin
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|          Karin Lin               |    ...soon to be                   |
|     klin@husc.harvard.edu        |                  at MIT!!!         |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Scouting Magazine Article
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:58:09 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL

dpfabie@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (David Paul Fabie) writes:

>I have been reading all the hubub over the decision of Levi Strauss and 
>Bank of America et.al to pull support for the BSA over the Homosexual
>issue.

Levi's (but not B of A) also said that the BSA's religious
requirements were incompatible with its nondiscrimination policy.

- Carl
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
From: bkgray@Chaos.mcs.kent.edu (Brian Gray)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: American Flag Disposal
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:06:23 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Kent State University

In article <1992Aug19.170502.8116@webo.dg.com> kahn@emav131.webo.dg.com (Mike Kahn) writes:
>I think that all that is "officially" written about flag disposal is that it
>be done in a fitting ceremony - ususally by burning (or words to that effect).

The US Flag Code says that a flag should be destroyed WITHOUT ceremony,
preferrably by burning.

Your local VFW or American Legion post should have a small booklet about
the proper display and care of the flag.  Ask them for a few copies.


brian
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: brahms@delaware.tdd.sj.nec.com (George Skillman  x2921)
Subject: Re: <None>
Organization: NEC-AM TDD, San Jose, California
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 01:24:37 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.185621.1@heroes> castaldi@heroes writes:
>
>LETS START A NEWSGROUP CALLED BITCH.SCOUTING.  ALL YOU GUYS THAT HAVE HI-
>JACKED REC.SCOUTING CAN GO THERE! I THOUGHT THE REC. STOOD FOR RECREATION!
>
>IF YOU WANT TO POST CAMPFIRE SONGS, SKITS, TROOP ADMIN INFO, SCOUT CAMP
>REVIEWS, EAGLE PROJECTS, QUESTIONS, RANK ADVANCEMENT, JAMBOREE ETC.. , THIS IS
>THE PLACE!  AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED, AND I BET 99% OF THE PEOPLE WHO READ
>THIS, ALL THAT OTHER STUFF IS WASTED DISK SPACE.
>

Suppose the BSA discriminated on the basis of race and people bogged this
newsgroup down with articles condemning this.  Would you still be so
eager to ignore the issue?  Is it that you don't care about others
being discriminated against or is it because you think gays/atheists deserve
it?  What do you think modern day opinions are about people in the previous
generation who never gave a thought about racism or felt that it was
justified?  Do you think your scouts will feel the same way about you
when they grow up?
--
=============================================================
George Skillman (408) 433-2921
brahms@tdd.sj.nec.com
NEC America
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: sbgreene@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Steven Greene)
Subject: Re: Minn: BSA doesn't have to let girls in
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:25:43 GMT

In article <1992Aug07.185233.16343@microsoft.com> philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara) writes:
>       Really?  I thought the BSA's congressional charter was more
>of a "non-legally-binding but still kind of nice to have" thing.  This
>implies that it carries the force of Federal law.  Which is correct?

You're right; the judge in Minnesota is wrong.  The BSA charter reads
as follows:

"The name of the corporation created by this chapter shall be 
'Boy Scouts of America,' and by that name it shall have ...  power 
... to make and adopt by-laws, rules and regulations not inconsistent
with the laws of the United States, or any State thereof ..."
(36 U.S.C.A. s 22)

So if a state bans discrimination, the BSA can't discriminate.
From: ford@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Harry Ford)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Address for No. Wisconsin Canoe Base
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:24:06 GMT
Reply-To: ford@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Harry Ford)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD


   A recent posting gave addresses for many high adventure bases. One
that was given was for the Northern Wisconsin National Canoe Base in
Boulder Junction, Wi. No other address was given and the mail I sent
to this address was returned. DOes anyone have any information or a
more specific address? Our troop is looking for alternative high adventure
locations.

Thanks

Harry Ford
Ass't Scoutmaster Troop 1070 Walkersville MD
-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+  Before space was invented........    +                                  +
+                                       +  ...Time had no place to go!     +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: enough!
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 20:32:28 GMT

R1SCM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (Dr. Steven C. Myers) writes:

[...]
> I do not want
>discussion of membership and discrimination, etc. to crowd
>the practical help and advice off the air.
[...]

There is plenty of room for both.

- Carl

--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
From: ionandr@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Ion Androutsopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Scout Oath/Promise & Scout Law - Multinational!
Keywords: Scout Promise, Greece
Date: 22 Aug 92 11:21:45 GMT
Reply-To: ionandr@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Ion Androutsopoulos)
Organization: Dept of AI, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In Greece the Scout promise is:

On my honour I promise 
to do my duty to God and the country,
to help every person at all times, 
and to obey the Scout Law.

(Yposxomai stnv timn moy
 va ektelw to ka8nkov moy sto 8eo kai tnv patrida,
 va bon8w ka8e av8rwpo se ka8e peristasn
 kai va tnrw to Nomo twv Proskopwv.)


     *******
        *                                    Ion (Ioannis) Androutsopoulos
   *    *        *     *     *     *         Dept.of Artificial Intelligence
        *       *   *   *     *   *          University of Edinburgh
        *       *   *   *      * *           E-mail: ionandr@aisb.ed.ac.uk
     *******     * * * *        *
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: wayne@eng.umd.edu (Wayne C. McCullough)
Subject: Wearing Eagle Badge & Medal
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 13:32:54 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park

Does anyone out there know of the guidelines for wearing the
eagle badge and/or medal?  In particular, can an eagle 18yrs
or older wear the medal at cerimonies?

In my troop, it is customary for everyone who recieved the badge in
the troup (ie, non-parents) to wear the medal at cerimonies (esp eagle
COH), even if they are over 18.  Only those under 18 wear the badge.

W
From: brunner@crchh447.bnr.ca (James Brunner)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Scoutin past
Date: 17 Aug 92 15:53:38 GMT
Reply-To: brunner@crchh447.bnr.ca (James Brunner)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx

In article <1992Aug14.152259.18701@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, csquared@coos.dartmouth.edu (C Squared) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug14.141435.29761@rdg.dec.com> frenchs@forsan.enet.dec.com () writes:
|> >
|> >Memories...
|> >
|> >Left handed screw drivers (for left handed screws of course)
|> >Sky hooks
|> >Elbow grease
|> >A long weight (wait)
|> >
|> 50 feet of Shoreline
|> 
|> C Squared

Latrine plugs
tent dust
bacon stretcher
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Brunner - (brunner@bnr.ca)
All opinions are my own and have nothing whatsoever to do with BNR, NT,
NTI, Bell Canada, or any of the BCE corporations or affiliates.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: brahms@delaware.tdd.sj.nec.com (George Skillman  x2921)
Subject: Re: <None>
Organization: NEC-AM TDD, San Jose, California
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:42:55 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.200729.13425@lsil.com> gascan@dcst16.dc writes:
>
>How can you equate "I don't want to read about this issue here" with "I don't
>care about this issue"?  Your right to free speech is not the same as my right
>not to have you shouting at the top of your lungs at my doorstep.

Posting to a bulletin board is hardly shouting at the top of my lungs at your
doorstep.  Also, you can always use a kill file to unobtrusively skip over
articles on a subject you aren't interested in.

>The rightness
>of your cause and whether or not I agree or disagree have nothing to do with the
>practice of posting political issues in a recreational forum.  Yes, these issues
>are important.  The question (which I do not intend to resolve) is whether or not
>this is the appropriate forum for them.  
>
>---
>1. Bill Gascoyne

Perhaps this isn't an appropriate forum for this issue.  Other posters,
however, have stated that the purpose of this newsgroup isn't as restricted
as you suggest.  I would also like to point out that severe offenses warrant
the use of broader forums.  From my point of view as a gay man who is
being degraded by the BSA's claim that I'm unfit to contribute to the
development of future generations and was unfit to participate in scouting
activities as a child, I think this forum is just fine.

Rather than try to get rid of people like me by just telling us to go away,
why not instead live up to the principles of citizenship that the BSA purports
to defend? Why not recognize their policy as one of biggotry and ignorance
and write the BSA to encourage them to stop this practice?  Perhaps
eventually the policy will be reversed and people like me won't feel
degraded and hence won't interrupt your discussions of scouting activities?

I would assume anyone's conscience would be seriously bothered if they were
a member of an organization that blatantly discriminated by race.
Unless you feel gays and atheists are not as deserving of equal treatment as
everyone else, why doesn't your conscience bother you just as much for your
participation in the activities of the BSA?

--
=============================================================
George Skillman (408) 433-2921
brahms@tdd.sj.nec.com
NEC America
From: rusa@diku.dk (Bjarne Steensgaard)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: 15 Polish Scouts wanting penpals in the US
Date: 12 Aug 92 11:02:56 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

I just returned from summer camp in Poland.  We spent some days in a
camp with Polish Scouts.  When they heard about this newsgroup they
asked me to post a request for penpals.

There were 15 Scouts (both boys and girls) who were interested in
having a foreign Scout penpal.  They are all around 16 to 18 years of
age.  They all speak English (sort of) and want to write in this
language, so language should not be a big problem.  They are all from
Kielce, a city between Crakow and Warsaw.

If you are interested in having a Polish Scout penpal, or know of
anybody else who are, then please drop me a note.  I will then give
you the address of one (or more) of the Polish Scouts.  If there is
overwhelming interest, then I have friends in different parts of
Poland that can contact more Polish Scouts.

--Bjarne Steensgaard
  Explorer leader, Pirates, Peter Lassen Group, Denmark
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination
From: johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 23 Aug 92 00:58:15 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
| And now the challenge: Can you suggest a policy that would include the
| BSA while excluding the KKK? 

A prohibition on funding for groups that discriminated on the
basis of race or advocated such.

The policy was changed because it was broad to the point of being
a little ridiculous.  A hate group based upon racial discrimination
is not compareable to a woman's sewing club.


-- 
-------------------------
My comments are my own.  They are independent and unrelated to the
views of my company , relatives or elected representatives.
From: marty@sw.stratus.com (Marty Frongillo)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: American Flag Disposal
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:02:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Aug20.185521.18927@infonode.ingr.com>, fred@fakpn.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Fred Kidd) writes:
> In article <1992Aug18.152449.21973@uceng.UC.EDU>, jgcombs@uceng.UC.EDU (Joseph Combs) writes:

> years.  There does not appear to be any "official" flag disposal rules other 
> than what is described in the introduction below.

Not true.  There is an official publication, I believe put out by the government,
that covers the proper use of the American flag.  It describes the "rules" for
flying the flag, proper display, and how to retire an old flag.  I don't know the 
name of the book or where you can get it.  I have see it though, 1-2 years ago.

I have retired serveral flags and have see it done many times too in my years in
scouting; the ceremony around it can be just about anything you want. 

The important part is to have at least 4 people stretch out the flag horizontally
and to walk it over a fire.  The person holding the corner with the blue field 
should drop it into the fire.  When it is burning, the remaining (3) people 
holding the corners should toss their corners towards the center of the flag.

Most of the time I have done or seen this ceremony it was preceded by a moment of
silence for all those who have died for our country; then complete silence; then
the retiring of the flag(s).


-- 

Marty Frongillo
SM Troop 18
Milford, MA
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: brunner@crchh447.bnr.ca (James Brunner)
Subject: Re: HELP- History of Scout Promise
Reply-To: brunner@crchh447.bnr.ca (James Brunner)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:52:14 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.195602.5654@news.iastate.edu>, wjturner@iastate.edu () writes:
|> First I would like to point out the REAL Scout Oath in the US goes:
|> 
|> On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country,
|>    and to obey the Scout Law,
|> To help other people at all times,
|> To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.
|> 
|> (Sorry, but you forgot "and to obey the Scout Law.")

Geez, I botched the Oath.  Thanks for correcting my errors.  I also said
physically "fit" rather than "strong".  I wonder what dreary part of my dim
brain that came from.  And to think, I call myself an Eagle Scout :-)
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Brunner - (brunner@bnr.ca)
All opinions are my own and have nothing whatsoever to do with BNR, NT,
NTI, Bell Canada, or any of the BCE corporations or affiliates.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: tinsel@uiuc.edu (Thomas Aaron Insel)
Subject: Re: <None>
Originator: tai50080@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Reply-To: tinsel@uiuc.edu
Organization: {not speaking for the} University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 21:26:50 GMT

afd@bellcore.com (Alex F. Dietz) writes:

> I have to agree with cataldi (the original poster) on this one.  There are
> forums for discussing the material brought up by G. Skillman, but 
> rec.scouting is not one of them.  Perhaps there is a need for a newsgroup
> that discusses BSA policy.  This newgroup, however, is for the exchange of
> BSA program ideas.  I'd like to see it return to that point.

This groups is NOT soley for the discussion of BSA program ideas.  It was
created for the discussion of ALL aspects of scouting worldwide.  At least
that's what we voted on.  If you want a BSA-only group, post a RFD for
rec.org.bsa. 
-- 
Thomas Aaron Insel (tinsel@uiuc.edu)
  I speak for myself, and not for the State or University of Illinois.
  "We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty." -- Edward R. Murrow
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american,chi.general
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Followup-To: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 23:17:27 GMT

[Followup to rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general again.]

This is retraction of my charge against the Bank of America (but not
of my charge against the United Way of Suburban Chicago).

A more careful reading of the Bank of America press release makes it
clear that the B of A is under the (mistaken) impression that Boy
Scout of America oath and law do not preclude gay and atheist boys.

Thus, the BofA's change with respect to the BSA is based on a BofA
misunderstanding of BSA policy, not on a change in the BofA's general
antidiscrimination policy.

I apologize for my mistake.

- Carl

p.s. Who is to blame for the BofA/BSA's (convenient) misunderstanding?
It's probably "nobody's fault".

p.p.s. I stand by my charge that United Way of Suburban Chicago has
lifted its ban on supporting racially and religiously discriminatory
programs. According to the Chicago Tribune the new policy says that
groups "organized by, on behalf of, or to serve persons of a
particular race, religion, sex, national origin" are eligable for
funding.

According to my local reference librarian, the UW of SC phone number
312 242-2540. Their address is 15 Spinning Wheel Rd, Hinsdale IL
?????. I've sent them a copy of my Chicago Tribune letter. If they
reply, I'll post a summary.
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: Levis Drops Boy Scouts...
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 23:01:42 GMT

>In , Carl M. Kadie of kadie@m.cs.uiuc.edu  wrote to All at 1:133/411,
> CMK> I thought a scout was suppose to be tolerant.

deitch@gisatl.fidonet.org (David Deitch) writes:
>     That's not in the Scout Law, and definately not a 
>     trait of this newsgroup.

Here is what I was thinking of:

From the Oath: "[A Scout] faithful in his religious duties and he
respects the beliefs of others."

Also a while back henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) wrote:

>Here are some excerpts from the Scout Handbook (10th Edition):
>
>Under 'A Scout is Friendly'
>	Every person is an individual with his or her own ideas and
>	ways of doing things.  To be a real friend you must accept other
>	people as they are, show interest in them, and respect their
>	differences.
>
>    Under 'A Scout is Kind'
>	... What may be harder is being kind to people you don't know
>	or don't understand, and to people with whom you disagree.  We
>	live in a world that has more than its share of anger, fear, and war.
>	Extending kindness to those around you and having compassion
>	for all people is a good antidote to the poisons of hatred and
>	violence.
>
>    Under 'A Scout is Brave'
>	... And you show true courage when you defend the rights of others.
>
>    Under 'A Scout is Reverent'
>	The United States Constitution gives each of us complete freedom
>	to believe and worship as we wish without fear of punishment.
>	All your life, you will encounter people who hold different
>	religious beliefs or even none at all.  It is your duty to
>	respect and defend the rights of others whose beliefs may
>	differ from yours.
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign