From: memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Islam: Difference b/w blasphemy and Criticizm
Date: 1 Sep 92 08:07:47 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <1992Sep1.064416.336@sol.cs.wmich.edu> sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani) writes:
>In article <la4rndINNiq8@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu>, hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:
>> In article <1992Aug28.005031.3295@sol.cs.wmich.edu> sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani) writes:
>> >
>> >example: Comparing Islamic system and US law Justice sytem.
>> >
>> > Islamic system is based is law on earth and law in hereafter.
>> >Which makes sense to muslims ONLY. US law is made to make sense
>> >to EVERYBODY, or as many people as possible.
>> 
>> Well, to us "secularism" like that in India (problems with
>> Kashmiris and Sikhs), Turkey( with Kurds), Germany France and other
>> European nations (problems with immigrants), makes no sense.
>> 
>
>Hyder Bhai:
>
>Let me ask you one question.
>Exactly when Islamic system has been in place
>with not ethnic/regional problems ?
>
>Is it a muslims ULTIMATE pipe dream that such a 
>system exists ? or it has been proved to work ?
>
>The discussion should be focused so I request the we
>stay on the discussion of Blasphemy.
>
>> >
>> >When you need
>> >ultimate justice, we are back to allah[swt], when comes to 
>> >justifying muslim's death threats, you are out to settle the
>> >issues on earth.
>> 
>> When USA needs Oil,  human rights-bla-bla-bla is used to
>> settle the issues on earth, and when Somalia and Bosnia situation 
>> arises they are back to the lame excuse of NOT enough security
>> interests!
>> 
>So now we are comparing, USA with ISLAM!
>what kind of comparision is that.
>
>USA is a country, ISLAM is a religious system.
>
>Again, let stay on blasphemy.
>
>> >
>> >You have vague concept of justice in hereafter,
>> >which can be used to solve any problem whatsoever.
>> >It is like having a non-deterministic turing machine.
>> >Obviously if you have non-detrministic turing machines
>> >you can solve a lot of problems, unfortunately, such machines
>> >dont exist. 
>> >
>> 
>> For you the concept of justice in the hereafter may be vague,
>> but Islamic concept of justice in this world is "definitely"
>> NOT vague and is very clear. And the concept of hereafter, 
>> in the pure logical sense is NOT at all vague, but is rather
>> too "rational", given the axiom that Allah exists!!!!!!
>> 
>The problem is that we cannot seem to find the line, when
>Allah[swt], comes into force and when humans have to take
>action.
>
>This has been the dabate all along. We have to make up our
>mind. What EXACTLY a person must do, and what EXACTLY are
>Allah[swt] must do to deliver the ULTIMATE justice system.
>
>Lets stay on blasphemy.
>
>> >
>> >But my claim is the very basic claim of
>> >Islam is blasphemous to christians. It is nothing
>> >to do with an individual would say or do.
>> >
>> 
>> Please, define "blasphemous" and "libel". I guarantee that
>> Islamic discussion of christianity in no way falls in
>> either category!
>> 
>
>ISLAMIC CLIAM(S):
>
>1.   Islam is true copy of the religion of Abraham, Jesus
>2.   Followers of Christianity and Judaism have corrupted copies.
>3.   Islam is JUST purer version of one religion.
>4.   They are misguided people, who need to become muslims.
> 
>
>Definitions;
>
>Blaspheme: (blas-fem) To speak of (God or something sacred) in an
>          irreverent or impious manner.
>irreverent: disrespectful
>impious: lacking reverence, profane
>
>Now given the definitions above:
>
>I CLAIM:
>
> 1. I have a new religion, with God named NAVEED.

Damn!  I wanted to keep it a secret. Naveed Bhai, dont you see this can 
cause a lot of problem for me in Pakistan, now you have seen right through me 
(yeah I am THE invisible kind, they are the coolest, you've got to love them)

> 2. Muslims, Jews and Chirstians have been praying to NAVEED
>    all their life.

They have?,  I thought I was ok but damn! I am good! That explains
my hiccups(sp) :) 

> 3. In particular, muslims are misguided and have mistaken 
>    NAVEED's name to be ALLAH

I know what you mean, I hate when that happens!

> 4. Muslims have corrupted copy of the religion, the only TRUE
>    copy is the NAVEED's book.
>

No their book is ok. I read it once. Muslims ought not to infer their own
interpretations and may want to move into the 21st century keeping their good
book in mind. But this problem will not be solved easily.

The only copy of Naveed's book is that of love. Xerox copies are free for all 
:) Hey that makes it free love, summer of love, 1967. Damn! I was born in 67.
That's spooky :) 



>Please tell me that above claims are not dis-respectful,  or they
>do not lack reverence to Allah, or they do not talk of Allah in 
>a disrecpectful manner.
>
>The definitions above and the counter claim lead to believe that
>that islamic claims are IRREVERENT to christianity
>and Judaism and therefore constitute Blasphemy.
>
>
>regards,
>
>-Naveed
>
>PS: I have no knowledge of God called NAVEED, people wishing to 
>    pray to such a god should contact 1-800-I-AM-LOST. :-)


Well they could write to me at the following address

Room 153, Hotel Metropole, Club Road
Karachi.


You did'nt think I would trust people with my home address did you, I dont
want people at my door with a rope in their hands. I'll be a phone receptionist
at this address if my resume is'nt worth anything in Pakistan.


Thanks for writing my name in caps. 

Naveed[the younger but divine one] Siraj



PS: Naveed Bhai, sorry to screw up your analogy. You should hope that you
are right though, because you have been my teacher once. That should
ensure your place in the heavens. You have my permission to put that  in your
resume. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan