From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Jedi powers
Date: 21 Nov 1992 10:42:00 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

>You can't find something if you aren't looking for it.  If Vader was
>looking for Ben or Yoda, then perhaps he might have been able to detect
>them via the Force.  In ANH though, Vader was right above Ben and didn't 
>detect him.  Why?  Because he wasn't looking for Ben.  If both he and the 
>emporer thought that they had wiped out the Jedi, then why should they 
>look for Ben or Yoda.

They must have looked for Ben.  Why else would Moff Tarkin know about him?
Was Ben the Jedi that escaped their grasp?  Ben says that he is the only
Jedi left.  Also, surely Vader must've known about Yoda.  I think Yoda
would be some sort of legend among Jedi...

>I'm also not so certain that he could detect them over long distances 
>with the Force.  If Vader or the Emporer could do such things, then 
>no matter where Luke went, they could find him.  What about the 
>scene early in ESB one might ask.  Vader recognized by looking at the
>screen that here is a supposedly barren planet with a powerful generator.
>How many uncharted outposts are rich enough to have such a generator?  Out
>of those uncharted outposts, how many are on barren planets?  I mean, if you
>are going to have such a generator you'd want a return on the money spent 
>for it . . . say by mining minerals or gas or something.  Vader recognized 
>this whereas the general didn't.  No Force used at all, just *brains*.  The
>Emporer, as Nathan writes, felt Luke's presence by using his ability to 
>forsee the future somewhat.  Notice that he didn't feel Luke on Endor while
>Vader did.  Vader is of course expecting Luke and thus is feeling ( with the
>Force ) every ship that comes by. 

I agree.  I don't think that Vader knew that Luke was their.  He just gathered
and used the information wisely.

>In short, I don't buy :

>1) Zahn's thesis of Yoda's power being canceled out by the dark cave and 
>   thus Ben had to hide near some dark cave, tree, Jabba, Luke, ad nausem.

>2) Detection by the Force over long distances.

Hear, hear.

>Ben exhibited only one detection of something over long distances once.
>He felt the destruction of Alderaan.  Easily explained in that let's
>say 5 billion people ( if Alderaan can be compared to Earth ) died as well
>as all the plants and animals.  Anything that huge would be felt like
>an earthquake.

And he detected it while in hyperspace... pretty impressive.  But it was
a massive disturbance.  Jedi surely use the Force, but they don't cause 
such a great change as this...

>Aside: Did Yoda feel it also?  What about any of the Jedi that escaped
>       Vader's grasp ( as in the Dark Horse comics )?  Did Vader get 
>       a headache like Ben did?  What about the emporer?  Could this 
>       destruction be compared to an earthquake in the Force :  Those
>       closest to it felt it most while those farther away felt it less?

Well, the inverse square law might apply.  I am sure that Yoda felt it
as well, however.  He has been watching the progress of Luke for quite
some time.  Also, I am sure he would pay attention to Ben as well.
How does Yoda watch them so?  Well, however he does it, I doubt he can
tell exactly where his watchees are.

It is also interesting that the alliance knew right where Ben was, but that
the Empire couldn't find him...

keith

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars