From: kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner)
Subject: Re: Since we are talking about pro equip
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 20:04:54 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.182653.29153@netcom.com>, tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct1.191645.26711@walter.bellcore.com> kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner) writes:
|> 
|> >I guess all those professional triathletes who use disks and composite spoke
|> >wheels either a) never pick up their heads to look forward for a couple of
|> >seconds, b) go faster due to the psychological aid and comfort they receive, c)
|> >are paid big bucks by sponsors to use these products, or d) actually gain speed
|> >through the use of these wheels.
|> 
|> And can you tell me how you would tell if they gained any speed with
|> these aero devices? In our club TT one of the Tri-geeks actually saved
|> 2 minutes or more by taking off all of the aero stuff. Now, granted,

I'd be interested in hearing how you determined that it was the removal of the
aero stuff that gained him 2 minutes.  Back-to-back TTs?  I doubt that he removed
his aero bars.  Please don't insult me by claiming that they don't improve
speed...

|> the course was half mild climbing (600 feet in 10 km) but the whole
|> point is that there is no valid way of comparing the advantages of
|> aero equipment except on a track and with instrumentation that assures
|> you that the rider is performing nearly identical with and without
|> aero equipment.
|> 
|> If you think that the Giro aero helmet is going to save you any measurable
|> time over the Specialized aero helmet then you are really the kind of 
|> person that advertisers like. Likewise the savings of a 24 spoke bladed
|> front aero wheel with an aero rim vs. a three-spoke. One zig and the advantage
|> has completely disappeared.
|> 

Of course, the same zig would have the same effect without the aero equipment,
so the advantage while not zigging (or lifting the head, as you said in an
earlier post) is still gained.  One of us is not thinking clearly.

|> If you're a pro rider you need every advantage. If you are a recreational
|> rider and buy this stuff, you'll just have your doors blown off by some
|> 17 year old kid on a box stock Trek 1400.
|> 

And perhaps I would have my doors blown off by the same kid even worse without
the stuff.  Please make some sense.

When you refer to pro riders needing every advantage, to what are you referring?
Surely not aero helmets, since you said above that there is no measurable time
savings.  Some other piece of aero equipment?  If you were referring to aero
equipment, then there IS a time advantage, at least for some fast people (I'd
think that it would help slower folk, too).  If you weren't referring to aero
equipment, what the heck was the purpose of that statement???

|> How many tri-geeks (not perjoritive -- descriptive) have I passed on
|> their aero bars while I was riding on the tops?
|> 

I dunno.  Come out here and race against Russ Jones with his tri-geeky
Kestrel (wearing running shoes) and 27mph+ TT speed.  Of course, that's his
pace AFTER running, say 5K at 5:15/mile pace.  And he's 37.  This, of course, is
as relevant to the topic as your last statement above...