From: doug@uuisis.isis.org (Doug Thompson)
Subject: Re: Proof: God wrote the Bible
Organization: International Shared Information Service (Ottawa)
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 92 22:18:37 GMT

nordenga@tc.fluke.COM (Arnold E. Nordeng) writes:

> In the case of the tomb, there are 3 observations made by 3 *different*
> authors.  Just as 3 witnesses can report an auto accident 3 different ways,
> and all testimonies can be true and reconciled, so too with the bible.

Wrong. You can't reconcile "Peter was there first" with "Mary was there
first". One is right, one is wrong, if one takes a literalist view.

> An omission or addition is *not* a contradiction.  

No - I'll grant you that. But a contradiction is a contradiction.

> If you want to claim the bible is untrustworthy in its facts or details, 
> then how can you as a "christian" support the resurrection as a fact or 
> detail, the cornerstone of our faith?  

The Bible is a witness - or a collection of witnesses. Some of the
accounts are more believable than others, some are more consistent with
each other than others. One doesn't have to start with "everything is
completely true" to derive "truth" from a witness.

I worship God, with faith. I don't worship the Bible or the Church,
though both can be helpful if they are understood as what they are.

> The common theme of all non-Christian
> religions is to first doubt the bible as the inerrant word of God--something
> that Jesus Christ did not do.
> Just look at JW's, Mormons, Islam, Newage, Christian Science, Moonies & the
> Unitarians, Bahai's etc etc etc......  

I've looked at all those heretics. They also agree with me that the sky
is blue and the sea is wet. Does that mean that the sky isn't blue and
the sea isn't wet?

Just because a Nazi claims that 2 + 2 = 4 doesn't mean I have to argue
against the proposition.

Ad hominem arguments are the weakest and most suspect. Just because
someone you don't like says it's so, doesn't mean that it's not so.

In fact the most powerful way to lie is to tell 99% truth, with 1%
falsehood. The truth content lull's the recipient's bullshit detectors
and the falsehood slips by.

It is not true that everything spoken by an evil person is wrong.
Usually most of it is quite valid.

Finally, the biggest problem with putting the burden of "ultimate truth"
on any document is that the meaning of any passage is very subjective,
depending on the person reading it. Even if we suppose that St. Paul
never said anything that wasn't completely "true", and no words are
preserved that aren't "true", when you read it and when I read it we'll
sometimes come up with very different and often very personal
'meanings'. So which "meaning" or "understanding" of the "truth" is
"true"?

You see? The Bible can never be more than a pointer, a guide, a witness,
a source of information and insight. It cannot be an arbiter of truth
because it's meaning is dependent on the reader's understanding.

Think about the Criminal Code. There is no dispute as to its contents.
There is no dispute as to its 'legal authority'. It is the law. But we
have all these courts and judges and lawyers who spend their time
arguing about variant interpretations of a text whose authority,
authenticity, and 'truth' (it is what it claims to be) is beyond
question.

No truth is "true" until interpreted by living people by the Spirit. The
Bible is not Spirit. "The letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life!"
That's the Bible's own assessment of itself.

So . . . no document is any better than your understanding or
interpretation of it. Ergo, saying the "Bible is all true all the time"
is at best a meaningless bit of fluff, and at worst a highly misleading
falsehood. 

=Doug

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