HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chuckm@dakota.tcs.com (Chuck Meares)
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Organization: Teknekron Communications Inc.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:33:58 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.205433.20980@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob >Donahue) wrote:
>
>>> 	To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't know a $2500 Fashionable
>>> Italian Suit if it bit me in the ass.  
>
>>Actually, you probably *would* recognize a $2,500 suit, just as you would
>>know that a twenty dollar entree was not McDonald's.  Certainly, if you
>>saw someone in a $2,500 suit (a mid-range Armani) standing next to someone
>>in a generic suit from Macy's (costing perhaps four or five hundred) -
>>you would recognize the difference.  
>
>	Really, (and I *never* thought I'd ever say this!) you're
>giving me too much credit.  In day-to-day life these are things I
>just don't notice...  I might be able to distinguish between
>a poorly-made/fitting suit and a tailor-made one.  But that's
>about it.  Call me a heathen.  But somehow I've managed to get by 
>in the lasdt 29.985 years - and with only slight remedial fashion
>lessons for things like colloquia, lectures, etc.  I'l lprobably get
>by for another 29.985 years.  
>

I'm with BBC.  I still can't pick out clothes.  My SO has to buy all my stuff
and still I can't tell the difference between something from Nordstoms and
Mervyn's. 

In fact the only way I really know that I put on something that halfway looks
good is when someone else tells me.  

I have learned to take such compliments, note exactly what I'm wearing, and
attempt to match the same outfit again.  :)

(OK, so revoke my queer card.  I also can't shop to save my life! )
:) :)

Chuck


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chuck Meares                               |
Systems & Network Administration           | PHONE: (510) 649-3649       
Teknekron Communication Systems            | INTERNET: chuckm@tcs.com
2121 Allston Way                           | 
Berkeley, California, 94704                |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Opinions expressed here are mine, mine, all mine ... I was never good
at sharing.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: PKJAMES@UKCC.UKY.EDU
Subject: Re: How do you send e-mail to Compuserve mailboxes?
    <1992Sep26.175920.14145@macc.wisc.edu>
Organization: University of Kentucky
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 10:59:17 GMT

In article <1992Sep26.175920.14145@macc.wisc.edu>
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
 
>
>
>In article
><1992Sep26.163617.23620@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
>lschmers@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lawrence S Schmersal)
>writes:
>
>>I'm on Internet and I've got a friend on Compuserve and I wanted if anyone out
>>there knew what I had to place on front of the box number to send him some
>>mail.  There's no soc.motss relevance, I just thought some kind soul would
>>know.
>
>If your friend's box number were 12345,67890 you'd send internet
>mail to 12345.67890@compuserv.com
>
>Simple, eh?  Works, too.
>
 
Are you sure you can drop the "e" at the last of CompuServe?
I'm on CompuServe and also mail people from here, there.  I've always
used compuserve.com as the host.  And mail I receive from there always
has that form.
Paul
From: nedervol@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Eric Nedervold)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Hospital Study Suggests Gays Are Very Unlikely To Be Molesters
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:10:14 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics

pc@linus.mitre.org (Penny Chase) writes:

>   > The heterosexual men
>   > responded most to the prepubscent girls, and then to the prepubescent
>   > girls.                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     ^^^^^

>Either my mind or my fingers were elsewhere. . . Replace the second
>use of "girls" by "boys" (what a shame it isn't the other way.  *That*
>would have been a *truly* amazing result :-)).

>	Penny

Are you sure it *wasn't* the other way around?  I'll go up to the library 
sometime this week and take another look at what _Sexual_Landscapes_
says if it's in.

--Eric
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Subject: Re: To Bob Sarver
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 10:08:57 GMT

bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:
>I am somewhat tied up dealing with cramer and ronzone in
>another thread. 

We know, honey, we know. But Phil's and Clayton's agenda are pretty
clear, and according to our charter and FAQ - you _have_ read those
haven't you? - their agendas are not to be discussed here.

Could you pretty pretty please edit your 'Newsgroups:' line, Bob, and
take the 'soc.motss' out?

						FJ!!

(PS: Does anybody still have those first postings of Bob? You know, the
ones wityh the fem and masc gays and mlle Dyer and that I'm keeping
handsome butch gay men in the closet on purpose because I say Dahling
all the time?

I couldn't handle them then, but now I'd like to reread them closely,
so please send them to me. )
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Heterosexuals (was Re: Faggots)
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:27:33 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1acuceINNhp8@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> tachyon@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Tane' 
Tachyon) writes:
>
>The men can all go around naked for all I care!  :-)

That would be OK with me too. 

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: evil twins
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 10:50:14 GMT


In article <thaaang.717831843@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu
(John Dorrance) writes:

>richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel) writes:

>>You'd both make an interesting pair of houseboys.

>House boy? Darling, you've seen my apartment; 

He has?  Now there's an interesting tidbit I didn't know
about.  Richard, you slyboots!  John, you slut from hell,
I'm telling your dad and pop right away, you hear me?

>imagine that expanded to an entire *house*!  Can you say
>fire hazard?

Well, damn, I was hoping so much for someone who knew how to
clean *and* did same with some regularity (like, I am an
excellent housekeeper, but I hate doing it).  Well, one must
live in the present, eh?  We'll just have to find some other
way to maintain order while you're here.  Perhaps we can
arrange not to notice -- I'm *really* good at that.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: may@hpcea.CE.HP.COM (Elaine May)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1992 00:41:37 GMT
Subject: Re: Straight Stereotypes (was Re: To Laura)
Organization: HP Corporate Engineering - Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: soc.motss

/ hpcea:soc.motss / bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) /  4:51 pm  Sep 14, 1992 /

>Behavior that has to be practiced is not natural.  Any behavior that is 
>natural comes without practice or forethought; it just happens.

Guess football, basketball, and baseball players are engaged in 
unnatural pursuits then. :-)
From: wje00@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Warren Jay Eggly)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Call the Office of the Governor in Oregon - No on 9
Date: 29 Sep 92 00:57:36 GMT
Return-Path: <@juts.ccc.amdahl.com:wje00@juts.ccc.amdahl.com>

>From: wje00@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Warren Jay Eggly)
Subject: Re: Call the Office of the Governor in Oregon - No on 9
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:32:59 GMT
> 
> Call the Office of the Governor in Oregon - No on 9
> 
> I just got off the phone with the Oregon Governors office. They are compiling 
> a tally of the numbers of calls they are getting about Measure 9. Please call 
> them and tell them you are not in support of Measure 9. It does not mater 
> where you are from. The number of the Governor is 
> 
> 		In Oregon      800-378-3111
> 		Outside Oregon 508-378-3111
> 
> eggs

		Note corrected area code
					503-378-3111


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Subject: Re: evil twins
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 12:48:30 GMT

roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips) writes:
>If FJ!! seems to have cut off almost all of his hair

You don't have to take my word for it, so ask Martin about the length
of my hair since March.

And the accent...Eamonn, what did you say once? "He's got the typical
faggy American accent." ?

						FJ!! (who needs
						clippers because this
						apprentice-barber stuff
						is costing megabucks)
From: timbomb@cs.uq.oz.au (Tim Mansfield)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: My Very Own Out List
Date: 29 Sep 92 04:44:57 GMT
Reply-To: timbomb@cs.uq.oz.au

In <1a5p78INNhde@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>In article <10417@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au>
>timbomb@cs.uq.oz.au (Tim Mansfield) wrote:

>I really hate these lists. 

Yeah, well, I think they're quite silly, but the discussion pops up every so 
often so I figured why not make a list and save the endless discussion.

Seems the list creates just as much discussion....

Anyway Arne, there's always the "fuck-off-and-die-mansfield" key...

>What's the (non-speculative) evidence for including:
>> Emily Dickenson                        author
>> John Milton                            1608-1674, British author

As I should have explained, I have no evidence, I'm simply compiling what seemed
to be accepted motss specualtion that I've saved over the last year or so. It 
may well be wrong. Do you have any reason for believing they're hets?

>What's the difference between:
>> George Gordon (Lord Byron)             1788-1824, British poet laureate 
>> Lord Byron                             poet 

Ah hah, probably that they came from different lists and ended up in different
positions when sorted?? I'll delete one.

>And what the hell does *this* mean:
>> Ramon Novarro                          actor (aka Sabu)

>Ramon Novarro was the screen name of the Mexican-born, US silent
>film star Ramon Samaniegos (1899-1968).  Sabu (1924-63; full name 
>Sabu Dastagir) was an India-born US film star of sorts in the '40s 
>and '50s.  Is it possible someone confused the two?  How could that
>have happened?  Ramon Novarro was a dashing, handsome leading man. 
>Sabu was a loinclothed jungle boy.  Novarro *was* gay.  About Sabu's
>sexuality I know nothing.

It means that I didn't know who Ramon Novarro was, and the list I got it from 
said "see Ramon Novarro" in Sabu's comment field. I'll correct it.

Thanks for your comments Arne.

tim
--
Tim Mansfield                                         timbomb@cs.uq.oz.au
Dept of Comp Sci, Uni of Qld, Australia, 4072           +61 (0)7 365 2956
"Nothing is wrong with the idea that there would be a God...  
		who changes the water." mvs@softway.oz (Mark V. Shaney)
From: bw462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bucky Whaley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: where's gaynet?
Date: 30 Sep 1992 18:16:52 GMT
Organization: The Lutefisk Watch
Reply-To: bw462@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bucky Whaley)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Does anyone know what's happened to Gaynet Digest (bit.listserv.gaynet)?
The last issue I saw was dated September 22.

-- 
Bucky Whaley
bw462@cleveland.freenet.edu
From: hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Heterosexuals (was Re: Faggots)
Date: 30 Sep 92 03:33:35 GMT
Organization: Botany Department - U of Georgia, Athens

In article <1992Sep29.181233.20236@fig.citib.com> glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)  forgets to add:
>
>I forgot to add:
      see?
>In article <1992Sep29.175950.20136@fig.citib.com>, glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
>
>|> I have to admit, though, that when I seen a big hot
>|> burly man with anyone who doesn't appreciate them
>|> (female or male) I think that he deserves better.
    
    He deserves muffins.

>And that I'm the one to give it to them!
>
    Of this I have no doubt.


    Muffins *with* honey, Jeff.

    Wayne
From: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Subject: Re: Phyllis Schlafly Still Doesn't Get It
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Reply-To: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Organization: ICS Dept., UC Irvine
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:55:14 GMT

In <1992Sep30.172545.1483@tc.cornell.edu> shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:

>In article <1992Sep30.170443.29422@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams) writes:
>|"That's what we've had in this country for 20 years," Schlafly
>|said, "a nonjudgmental description of all kinds of sex acts
>|with demonstrations of how to do it, and with an attempt to
>|break down the natural modesty of the girls."

>I feel cheated.  Is it too late to return to high school?

I dunno, I've obviously been cheated too, and I was in high school
within the last 20 years.  Where *does* she find these places?

--Cindy


--

*  I would rather that a bigot thought I was a lesbian than that a
*  lesbian thought I was a bigot.        -- Tovah Hollander
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gsmith@lauren.uucp (Gene W. Smith)
Subject: Re: usenet.age
Organization: IWR, University of Heidelberg, Germany
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 18:35:18 GMT

In article <15730@umd5.umd.edu> jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:

>But prudence advises us to distinguish carefully
>betwee 'use' and 'useful'.  [Fortunately, I'm an
>experimentalist, so none of it makes any sense 
>to me.]

Happily, no astronomer or physicist has at yet stepped forward and
claimed to use categories all the time professionally.  Maybe if I
asked in sci.physics or sci.astro I could sleep again at night without
worrying  about this.

What about category theory in Gay and Lesbian studies?
-- 
     Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/IWR/Ruprecht-Karls University 
               gsmith@kalliope.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: buckmr@lib110.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: OR:9 Sappho Letter
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 20:42:37 GMT

markm@ogicse.cse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:


>Address for the Lesbian Community Project

>PO Box 5931
>Portland, Oregon 97228
>503-223-0071

>BTW, LCP is the largest Lesbian organization in the nation.
Huh? What does this mean? LCP has the largest budget for a lesbian organisation?
The most members, or what?

-- 
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
"We oppose efforts to include sexual preference as a protected minority 
receiving preferential status under civil rights statutes at the Federal, state
and local level." --1992 Republican National Commitee campaign platform.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@vccnw02.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: My Very Own Out List
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 19:43:12 GMT

kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:

>In article <dcgzqkb@rpi.edu> buckmr@lib110.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:

>>timbomb@cs.uq.oz.au (Tim Mansfield) writes:

>>>I've decided to post my list of queer men and women

>[...]
>>>Camilla Paglia			writer

>>It's Camille. And we don't want her.

>Speak for yourself, Ron. Paglia must be the most misunderstood person
>on Earth today.
MISUNDERSTOOD? Please read Mim Udovitch's review of her latest work in the
VILLAGE VOICE this week. As well as another review in NEWSWEEK last week.
I think people understand Camille quite well.

>Let's put it this way...Paglia and the women who put out "On Our Backs"
>have similar philosophies.
And just what IS Camille Paglia's philosophy?

I did lie her Op-Ed piece at the back of the last ADVOCATE, however.

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735.  "D.C. IN 93!"
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
"You know, you should really change your position on abortion."
                                 --Katharine Hepburn to George Bush, Nov 1990
From: Charlie Fulton <charlie@isis.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Phyllis Schaffly's son John . . . COMES OUT NATIONALLY!
Organization: Ctr for Advanced Rsrch in Oppressive Binarisms
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
     <17683@autodesk.COM> <72836@apple.Apple.COM>
     <mcmelmon-270992163026@mcmelmon.apple.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:45:30 GMT

In article <mcmelmon-270992163026@mcmelmon.apple.com> Matthew Melmon,
mcmelmon@aruba.apple.com writes:
>Much as it pains me to admit, I went overboard on this one.  I do not,
>however, recall advocating policies of discrimination.  The 'parody'
>struck me as a trite little piece of crap at the time, and it still
>does.  This does not, however, remove the harsh reality that
discrimination
>is a reality.  There are certainly people trapped in situations they
>have no easy escape from; and yes, while I am in a very pleasant
>environment, I shouldn't be so quick to dismiss their suffering.

Neither should you dismiss the fact that without legislative
mandate, your pleasant work environment is a revocable 
largesse, and if you are willing to tie your right to earn a 
living to the whims of market forces, you shouldn't be 
so arrogant as to assume that my trite piece of crap won't 
one day splat squarely on you.

Corporate magnanimity is fickle and you are a fool if
you risk your pocketbook on it.  

Charlie
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Date: 5 Oct 92 03:19:10 GMT
Organization: insert anything here

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>>Michael Thomas postures:
>>>  You know, I always thought that bears were omnivorous. You know,
>>>  Turn in your card.
>>You're not even a *MEMBER* of the BearCabal, much less one of the 
>>Ruling Ursines.

>Would it be rude to say "You'd be a handsome puss if you just grew a beard?"
>:-) :-)

	:-) :-)  Objectively, (and overly seriously I know), I would
say that it is no more or less rude than "You'd be a handsome puss
if you just shaved your beard."  :-) :-)

	And what's this BearCabal?  Waldeaux insists he did not
authorize it, and is ready to go to God herself...  (you hoo
Elizabeth?)  :-)

BBC, chief priest
at the cathedral of
St. Waldeaux of the Ethernet
Xref: sparky soc.motss:41391 soc.bi:13318
From: hwt@bcarh11a.BNR.CA (Henry Troup)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: Civil War in Oregon
Date: 1 Oct 92 20:01:02 GMT
Reply-To: Henry.Troup@BNR.CA
Distribution: world
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada


|>>>The average homosexual 
|>>>has between 20 to 106 different partners per year--300 to 500 in a 
|>>>lifetime.  Is that typical sexual behavior?

The average homosexual also has one breast and one testicle.  Is that
typical sexual anatomy?
                                             
  Henry Troup - HWT@BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions
From: bschwart@testament.bbn.com (Bev Schwartz)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Why is sex important?
Date: 6 Oct 92 03:09:28 GMT
Reply-To: bschwart@testament.bbn.com. (Bev Schwartz)
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

I'm 31 years old, in my first relationship (now about 8 months old), and
find myself uncomfortable with sex.  I'm interested in how others worked
through their sexual problems, but more importantly...

Why is sex important in a relationship?

I'm not looking for the type of hype about how wonderful sex is, it's the
best thing ever, etc, etc.  I don't buy the message I get from tv and
other media.

Sell me on sex.  You're talking to someone who, if she didn't get horny,
would probably not have anymore sex, nor miss it at all.  (Needless to
say, my girlfriend, who loves sex and is _always_ in the mood, is less 
than thrilled with this attitude.)

-Bev
 bschwart@bbn.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Subject: Re: Faggots
Followup-To: rec.arts.cooking.yams
Summary: TITTY SAUCE YAMS (part IV: the end game)
Organization: earnestly practicing faggots
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 01:18:37 GMT

[finally, george brings it all together: the honey on the tits, the
yams, the hot stove.  you know how you feel when beethoven finally
gets all those melodic and rhythmic and harmonic bits all together
in a way that feels just so overwhelmingly *right*?  well, this is
ok, but it's no beethoven...]

     Take one half cup of water and place in a small pot and heat
until good and warm.  Add one fourth cup of honey to the water [remember
the honey, honey?] and stir in until well dissolved.  Remove from the
heat.  Add one teaspoon of almond flavoring and one teaspoon of cherry
flavoring.  You can get these both at practically all grocery stores
[??].  Stir in and quickly pour over the bite size portions of yams.
Put small pieces of butter over the yams.

 yams
 butter over the
   yams
 small pieces of
   butter
   over the yams
 put
   small
   pieces of butter
     over the
     yams
 yams
   bite size
   portions of yams
 pour
 pour over
 pour over the bite
   size
   size portions
        portions of
   yams
     bite size
     of yams
 butter pieces
   of yams
   bites of butter
   yams, of
   pieces, honey
     honey yams,
     bite portions
   tits, saucy yams
titty sauce
   bits, bites of
   yams, butter
titty sauce yams


Xref: sparky soc.motss:41376 soc.bi:13316 alt.politics.clinton:8063
From: drp@dosbears.UUCP (David R. Preston)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Clinton In New Jesery
Date: 1 Oct 92 20:18:42 GMT
Reply-To: drp@dosbears.uucp
Organization: DosBears

In article <1992Sep30.194129.16528@erenj.com> bdboyle@erenj.com (Bryan D. Boyle) writes:
>In article <1992Sep30.174855.2000@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> duane@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (duane.galensky) writes:
>>In article <1441@dosbears> drp@dosbears.uucp writes:
>>>In article <1ab8c8INN4i3@plts.uucp> tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli) writes:
>>>>
>>>>His negotiating skills developed for getting concensus resulted in
>>>>people calling him "Slick Willie".
>>>
>>>Actually, "Slick Willie's" is the name of a bar in Little Rock;
>>>some local newsperson started calling Clinton that and it stuck.
>>>
>>so much for this "liberal media" propaganda horse crap.

There's a local paper (Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, or some such
goofy newspapaper name) that's been anti-Clinton for as long
as he's been Governor. I'm not sure if they're the ones who
started the "Slick Willie" thing, but I wouldn't be surprised.

>Or maybe, like a recent "slick" politician, he is perceived as 
>talking out of both sides of his mouth at the same time, with
>the truth a distant casualty.

I heard an interesting snippet yesterday on NPR that goes back
to what Tom says above. Apparently Clinton lost his first
re-election campaign because he targeted the "Big Timber"
industry in Arkansas - he tried to get them to stop clear-cutting.
He didn't have enough of a coalition behind his re-election
effort, so the timber industry was able to blow him away with
money. When he came back in the next election he had transformed
himself into Slick Willie, super campaigner. If that's what it
takes to effect positive change in Arkansas, or positive change
in this country, then so be it.

--
         David R. Preston   drp@dosbears.uucp dosbears@netcom.com
              Information gladly given but safety requires
               the avoidance of unnecessary conversation.
            D. R. Preston 584 Castro St. #614 SF CA 94114 USA