HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Stores can't "detain" shoplifters
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 20:24:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.165358.23188@wuecl.wustl.edu> gl1@cec2.wustl.edu (Greg Lyon) writes:
>ewv@craycos.com (Eric Varsanyi) writes:
>>Actually, my girlfriend works at a Target and when she started they had
>>a security briefing. No one (not even the security guys at the store)
>>can 'detain' anyone from leaving, or use any other type of physical
>>force on them. If someone is observed shoplifting the manager (or
>>security types) can go over and say anything they want (I'm sure they
>>make up some good stuff to convince the person that they must stay in
>>the store, sign a release, etc...) but if the person walks out the
>>front door they can't stop him/her, if anyone tries the legal fees and
>>damages possible far outweigh whatever the value of the item they might
>>be able to carry off.
>
>   One thing that I've been told is that if a store security officer approaches
>you and asks to "take a look in" your purse/shopping bag/whatever, you should
>refuse and ask them to call the cops.
>
>   If they call the cops, have you arrested and it turns out that you
>_didn't_ steal anything, you might be able to file false arrest charges against
>the store and perhaps receive some form of restitution for the incident.

In most states anyone who sees you commit a misdemeanor can place
you under arrest and use reasonable force to deatin you until the
police arrive.

A subsequent conviction is a virtually  perfect defense against a
false arrest suit.  But if the case is not brought to trial by the
prosecutor if it is but no conviction results, the false arrest suit
has to stand on the evidence.

For this reason, many jurisdictions have passed specific ordinances
dealing with shoplifting, which allows a shopowner to detain you
upon reasonable suspicion, a lower standard than other misdemeanor
arrests.

Examples:  If a security guard observes you  putting a store item
into your pocket, that is a misdemeanor committed in his presence.
But if the guard observes Mrs. Jones put store items into a store
suitcase, and a few  minutes later Mr. Smith picks up the suitcase
and goes to purchase it, under many shoplifting ordinances he can
detain Mrs. Jones and Mr. Smith.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,rec.food.cooking
From: haydens@bullwinkle.juliet.ll.mit.edu (Hayden Schultz x3685 g42)
Subject: Re: Black and Decker Handy Steamer
Reply-To: haydens@juliet.ll.mit.edu
Organization: M.I.T. Lincoln Lab - Group 42
Distribution: na
Date: 27 Jan 93 01:13:02


In article <1718@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM> lsnow@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM (Linda Snow) writes:

   Does anyone have one of these and if so do they work well?  How about
   on very small quantities (1 cup) of vegetables or rice?  And are they
   easy to clean.  Also if you have a different brand I'd be interested
   in hearing about it -- I'm having trouble finding a B&D in stock anywhere.

I don't have one, but Consumer's Report gave it a favorable
review a few months ago. The article said that they don't usually go
in for things like that, but they were pleased that the B&D was an
exception.

	Hayden
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: abbott@priory.enet.dec.com (Robert Abbott)
Subject: Re: Deer Whistles
Organization: TP Performance
Distribution: usa
Date: 27 JAN 93 10:51:21    


In article <C1Gstu.KH0@unx.sas.com>, sasjcs@canoe.unx.sas.com (Joan Stout) writes...
>This isn't scientific, but I know a realtor who works mostly in a 
>rural and semi-rural area. Collisions with deer happen quite frequently
>in this area. The realtor has the whistles on her vehicle, and she says
>she hasn't seen a deer near her car since she got them. She's convinced
>that they work.

I have a couple of realtors strapped to my 
fenders and I haven't hit a deer yet.

------------------------
Robert K. Abbott
abbott@tps.enet.dec.com          
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: konstan@saturn.cs.umn.edu (Joe Konstan)
Subject: Re: KMart's policy if items scan at the wrong price.
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:05:56 GMT

In article <1jopleINNot@shelley.u.washington.edu>, tzs@carson.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes:
|> You are starting off with a fundamental misconception.  Breaching a
|> contract is not a crime.  In fact, contract law *ENCOURAGES* the
|> breach of contract!  The legal consequences of a breach are that the
|> breacher will basically have to pay damages.  Damages are basically
|> awarded to cover the expectation interest of the injured party.  There
|> is almost never a punitive damage award under contract law.  

and he continues to explain the KMart example under contract law.  

I don't think this is the principle that dominates here, however.  In an
isolated case where there is a single mismarking and it is corrected 
quickly I would agree that it is fair to consider this under contract
lay.  However, what we have here is a case with large numbers of
systematic errors.  While the mismarkings aren't intentional, they are
not being fixed and the system (as tested by the attorney general in
California) is heavily biased towards overcharging rather than
undercharging.  This is illegal as fraud, completely apart from
contract law.  As fraud, punitive damages are not only allowable but
customary as is the possibility of civil class action.  The law
intends to discourage fraud by making it uneconomical and therefore
would not consider compensatory damages awarded to only the parties
who discover the fraud to be acceptable.  Frankly, I think jail time
would be a more effective deterrent than most fines since this seems
to be a very profitable endeavor.

If you wish to view this in contract terms, an earlier poster had a
good example.  If I switch bar codes, you could allege that I merely
made a counter-offer which was accepted when the cashier rang up the
sale and took my money.  If it was discovered, then the counter-offer
must have been rejected.  This argument will take you far (but most of
the trip will be in handcuffs).  The penalty for this form of theft
will be far more than the few cents by which I "offered" to reduce the
price.

Joe Konstan
konstan@cs.umn.edu
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,co.general
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: Illegal telephone recording
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 18:22:42 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.021011.26809@colorado.edu> fedrick@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Kelvin W. Fedrick) writes:
> Probably, but what if the police just place an ad in a magazine for,
> oh say child prostitution, and give an address or phone number to
> call or write to? When the poor fool calls, he is recorded. Then further
> meetings are set up and at those meetings, they are video taped,
> recorded, and finally arrested. Entrapment? Evidently not since this
> happened in Denver not to long ago and some of the individual were
> convicted according to the news.

As I understand these laws, the idea of the crime can not be initially
suggested by the government. If the individual had never considered
child prostitution, never seen an ad on the subject, saw the 
government's ad and became "sold" on the idea; that would be entrapment. 
If, however, the government could show that the same magazine had run
other, similar ads for child prostitution and/or that the idea had
already occured to the accused, then it wouldn't be entrapment.

                                             Frank Crary
                                             CU Boulder
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,misc.misc,soc.culture.usa
From: dtorok@nynexst.com (David Torok)
Subject: Re: Insane NYC Tolls
Followup-To: misc.consumers,misc.misc,soc.culture.usa
Organization: NYNEX Science & Technology, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 13:28:43 GMT

White (pbwhite@rodan.acs.syr.EDU) wrote:
: At least they have a reason for keeping the NYC Tolls insane.  If the tolls
: were any cheaper, every person would drive over the bridges, tunnels and get
: into the city - an then, as if there isn't enough traffic already - we'd
: really have a jam.  

And I just heard on the radio (although this is probably old news) that
the Verezanno Bridge (connecting Staten Island with Brooklyn/Long Island)
will now cost SIX dollars round trip!!  And this doesn't even TOUCH
Manhattan.  It does, however, touch all the people from New Jersey who
have to go to Kennedy Airport.

-=$>Dave<$=-
-- 
David Torok, NYNEX Science & Technology, 914-644-2378 Fax: 914-644-2404
500 Westchester Ave, White Plains, NY 10604  "torok@nynexst.com"  Juggle!
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: poulsen@sp91.csrd.uiuc.edu (David K. Poulsen)
Subject: Re: PEPSI CLEAR & TAB CLEAR
Organization: UIUC Center for Supercomputing Research and Development
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 01:13:20 GMT

krajnatg@infonode.ingr.com (Tom G. Krajna) writes:

>Okay, it's clear that no one seems to like the new stuff.  But am I missing
>something here about it *tasting* so different?  Didn't they just ditch
>the coloring, leaving the flavor alone?  Can you identify Pepsi Clear in
>a blind taste test vs. Pepsi Unclear?

They definitely taste quite a bit different (even blindfolded).  Like I
said, I think the clear stuff tastes like Coke, not Pepsi.  I don't think
they intended to just remove the color from original Pepsi.  I think their
intent was to produce a totally new "cola beverage" that just happens to
be associated with the Pepsi company.  Arrg.

DP
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: wex@cs.ulowell.edu (Paul M. Wexelblat)
Subject: Re: Deer Whistles
Originator: wex@bigmax.ulowell.edu
Reply-To: wex@cs.ulowell.edu
Organization: Univ. of Lowell CS Dept.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:42:03 GMT


In article <QfN31pG00WB3Mhtkhf@andrew.cmu.edu>, ez03+@andrew.cmu.edu (Eric C. Zinner) writes:
|> From: ez03+@andrew.cmu.edu (Eric C. Zinner)
|> Subject: Deer Whistles
|> Date: 25 Jan 93 08:24:53 GMT
|> 
|> After totalling two cars in two years by hitting two deer I am ready to
|> try anything to keep my new car from suffering the same fate.  A friend
|> suggested that I spend $5 and buy "deer whistles", small plastic devices

	. . .

|> Does anyone know of such a study or have
|> any knowledge of the usefulness of this gizmo?

Consumer Reports has said that they have seen no evidence that they are at all 
effective	Sorry

-- 

	...Wex
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: xzs1970@rchland.vnet.ibm.com
Subject: Re: FORD credit card .5% rebate
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:01:34 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Rochester

In article <27JAN199309484319@addvax.llnl.gov>, lim@addvax.llnl.gov (Doug Lim) writes:
|> Does this mean *NO* cash back at all or the new 0.5% back or 1.5% back if
|> you carry a balance? I just recently got the Ford VISA (not MC) which has
|> the above cash back terms and wonder whether or not I will be receiving
|> a similar type of notice in a year! :-(  If it is *NO* cash back, I wonder
|> if this is just for their MC Card? 

No, it is not just for their MC Card.  I got the same offer for my Ford Visa.

-- 
J N
Rochester, MN
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: lbd@cbnews.cb.att.com (linda.b.dunlap)
Subject: Re: Stores can't "detain" shoplifters
Organization: AT&T Network Systems - Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 12:52:48 GMT

We have a sorry case going in Columbus right now.

A man was detained by a security man at a large local combination grocery/
department store.  In the process of being detained he was thrown to the
ground and suffered a broken neck.  He is now paralyzed.

He either is going to or has already sued the company for millions.  The
store no longer allows its security people to touch anyone.

What is sad is that he sort of admits to taking something out of the store
without paying for it.  Something about needing to check if the batteries
he is supposed to have stolen were the right size before he paid for them.

Total stupidity no matter who's side you take.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,soc.culture.usa
From: arup+@cs.cmu.edu (Arup Mukherjee)
Subject: Re: Speeding ticket in OKlahoma --- what's SP8?
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 23:06:24 GMT

In article <C1D9H7.C61@agora.rain.com> robart@agora.rain.com (Joe Bob) writes:
>  I have to disagree about the relative conditions of I-80 vs. the
>PA Turnpike, too.  I drove both last summer and although the turnpike
>had a few sections which were quite new looking, overall it's probably
>the lamest toll road in the country.

The PA turnpike may well be the worst TOLL road in the country, but I-80 
in PA is not toll (that was my original point -- I suspect that they 
intentionally never get around to fixing it...). I drive from Pittsburgh
to New York City fairly regularly, and have pretty much given up on I-80 (my
most recent drive on 80 was this past September, and my most recent drive on 
the turnpike was 2 wks ago).  Even though the route is longer via the turnpike,
there is only minor construction for a 5 mile stretch and that's it -- the 
result is that I wind up getting to NYC faster (in spite of the fact that there
are more cops on the turnpike!) just because it never narrows to a single lane 
at any point. The PA turnpike could certainly use another lane for its entire
length, but I don't recall any extended stretches of bad road and construction
like I-80 has...


Don't get me wrong -- I hate the turnpike too -- but more because of the cops
and an abundance of losers who insist on doing 50 in the left lane (the PA 
turnpike only has two lanes in each direction...). It was voted the second
worst roadway in the country by some group of truckers a few months ago, and
I almost agree with them (the worst was the Cross Bronx Expyway in New York 
City -- but I think at least that's not a toll road!). However, for a road in
Western PA, it's not too bad (given that I consider I-(2)79 to be the only
decent road in the area). It's just darned expensive!

Has anyone other there driven both the Cross Bronx and the turnpike recently?

Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup)
Subject: Re: Toll Roads (was: Speeding ticket in OKlahoma --- what's SP8?)
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:58:43 GMT

I'm surprised no-one's mentioned the Mass Pike. To go from Cambridge to Newton
(10 miles tops) costs a dollar. 50 cents to get on, 50 cents to get off. I
understand the Mass 'Pike Extension (from Weston eastbound into Boston I93)
is the most expensive toll road in the country, by mile. I understand that
our 'Pike Authority also found some way of keeping itself in business instead
of pulling the booths as well.

	-Kenny

-- 
Kenny Crudup, Contractor, OSF DCE QA
OSF, 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA 02142	+1 617 621 7306
kenny@osf.osf.org			OSF has nothing to do with this post.
	  Religion: The longest-running gag ever played on Mankind.
From: andrew.carpenter@idcbbs.com (Andrew Carpenter) 
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: PRODIGY -- WHAT ABOUT
Date: 23 Jan 93 17:54:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: IDC BBS - Alameda, CA - 510-865-7115
Reply-To: andrew.carpenter@idcbbs.com (Andrew Carpenter) 

>>2 hrs, plan "A": 2 * $7.95 = $15.90.
>>2 hrs, plan "B": $2.00 + 2 * $6.00 = $14.00

KC>Considering you can't do much on Compu$erve in an hour, I don't see how you
KC>like the first plan better. More hours work even better in your favor.

There's some confusion here. Compuserve basic service is 7.95 per month,
with free connect time. That includes a fair bit of free email credits
(for sending messages, around $9.00, I think), although you pay extra
for mail that crosses into Internet and other networks.

Of course, many compuserve services aren't include in the basic package,
and for those you must pay a connect fee. Some databases are quite
expensive, other serives are charged at a "standard" connect fee that
varies with baud rate.

Compuserve is a huge system; there's lots you can do with the basic
package, but lots lots more you can do outside of the basic services....

 * KingQWK 1.05 # 6 * No lemons, no melon.                                                       
                                       
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: thearn@nmsu.edu (Tom Hearn)
Subject: Re: Deer Whistles
Organization: New Mexico State University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:20:35 GMT

In article <QfN31pG00WB3Mhtkhf@andrew.cmu.edu> ez03+@andrew.cmu.edu (Eric C. Zinner) writes:
>After totalling two cars in two years by hitting two deer I am ready to
>try anything to keep my new car from suffering the same fate.  A friend
>suggested that I spend $5 and buy "deer whistles", small plastic devices
>that mount to the front of a car.  Supposedly, when the car is driven at
>more than 35MPH the whistle emits a frequency of 16,000-20,000 Hertz, in
>a deer's audible range, and that scares them away from the car.  Of
>course, since it is relatively rare to hit deer (unless you're me), it
>is difficult to test the effectiveness of such a device unless a large
>sample of people is surveyed.  Does anyone know of such a study or have
>any knowledge of the usefulness of this gizmo?
>
>With my luck I'll put them on backwards and deer will be attracted to my
>car :-)  

After I totaled my car by hitting a four point buck at 70mph in NY state
I got deer whistles for my next car.
What the hell, for $5 its cheap insurance.  I have noticed on occasion some
animals (possum, racoon) running away from my car after starting out into
the road.

Do they really work?  I don't know but I haven't hit any deer or
other animals in the four years I've had them.

	-Tom
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: erc@netcom.com (Eric Smith)
Subject: Re: Pre-Approved card Mail in annual fee??
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 01:08:58 GMT

In article <C1FI3u.Aqq@encore.com> slightbo@encore.com writes:
>My wife received a pre-approved credit application for a Gold MC
>they offer a $10,000 credit line.  All they ask is that she mail 
>in the "annual fee" payment of $39. This is not covered in the FAQ,
>but I smell a rat? What do you think? 


If they were a legitimate bank, they would have no reason to ask for
an advance payment, because they could just put it on your the first
bill for your credit card.  Thus it is most probably fraud.  If the
person running it gets 5000 replies with $39 in each reply, that adds
up to $195,000.00, and the person would probably not pay taxes on that,
but would probably go overseas to a resort area to lie low till the
heat is off.  If they leave town fast enough, they might never be
identified.  They might have used fake ID to open their business bank
account, etc.
From: egreen@east.sun.com (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Making a purchase with a check
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:07:57 GMT
Reply-To: egreen@east.sun.com
Organization: Sun Microsystems, RTP, NC
NNTP-Posting-Host: laser.east.sun.com

In article 2C8@hpfcmdd.fc.hp.com, sandya@hpfcmdd.fc.hp.com (Sandy A) writes:
>
>Question: it's my check, shouldn't I be able to put whatever I want
>on it, as long as there's no law against it?

Of course you can.  BTW, there is no law that says the check must be
the little 6" X 2.75" preprinted slips of paper we all know and love.
You can write a check on a torn-up paper bag and it's a legal draft.
Convincing anybody to accept is a different matter...

>btw, lots of people seem impressed that I memorized the number.  I also
>memorized my license number and usually write that down to -- saves *lots*
>of time at the register.

Just have all the numbers printed with your address the next time you
reorder checks.

---
Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker,
  Ed.Green@East.Sun.COM   |and I showed him a picture of you.  I said,
DoD #0111  (919)460-8302  |"Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"
 (The Grateful Dead) -->  |It seemed like the least I could do...
From: andor@inode.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: PRODIGY -- WHAT ABOUT
Date: 26 Jan 93 09:21:23 EST
Reply-To: andor@inode.com
Distribution: world
Organization: inode BBS, NYC's Best Usenet Access (212-679-9146)

 -=> Quoting Mikeb@macbeth.ocpt.ccur.c to News <=-

 Mi> andor@inode.com wrote:
 Mi> : They have a monthly "Basic Services" membership that costs
 Mi> $8.00/month with : unlimited access during all hours and at all speeds
 Mi> I think that CI$ is $7.95 per hour and anything over 2400 baud is

You think wrong.

Why not do some checking before you make foolish posts contradicting true
information? 

Too much trouble? 

Easier to look foolish?


... Militant Agnostic: I don't know and you don't know either!
--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
#! rnews 2
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,rec.autos.driving
From: mike%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu (Mike S.)
Subject: Re: Insurance question
Organization: BITS, St. Louis, MO
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:04:12 GMT


>If the tickets occurred within the last 3 years then he *does* have points,
>and the insurance co. will find out about them when they query the state
>database (assuming the tickets are in his home state; and there may be some
>data sharing between states, I don't know).  If they were more than 3
>years ago the insurance co. probably isn't interested in them anyway.  They
>may not even ask him about his driving record, since they can get the
>info elsewhere.

This brings up an interesting point.  In general, do the
insurance companies check for points on your record, or do
they check for moving violations in particular?

If given a moving violation with no points, how would this be
treated?

Mike
-- 
mike%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,rec.food.cooking
From: bdewey@grok116.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Bob Dewey)
Subject: Kitchen Aid mixers
Organization: NCR Corp., Columbia SC
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 16:57:45 GMT

I am looking for a mail order (read inexpensive/discount) source for a Kitchen
Aid food mixer. I am looking for the larger size where you move the bowl
up to the beaters rather than having the head tilt.

Someone posted a similar query a short time ago but I did not see any
responses. 
-- 
Bob Dewey                       e-mail: Bob.Dewey@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM 
Customer Satisfaction, MSBU        fax: (803) 739-7317
MCPD Columbia                    phone: (803) 791-6425 or VoicePlus 632-6425
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Tenants Ins.
From: <FGBCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Saturday, 23 Jan 1993 22:59:48 EST
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

Hi,

Anyone know of a good tenants Insurance place.  I also want to know about
getting a rider on my computer.  I hear most insurance co. want your auto
policy before signing you to a tenants policy.  I just want tenants and
is their some sort of Insurance agenda that determines whether or not
they'll cover you for tenants.
Thanks in advance