HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anton@HQ.Ileaf.COM (steve norton)
Subject: Re: fourteenth bashers: get a grip
Reply-To: anton@HQ.Ileaf.COM (steve norton)
Organization: interleaf, inc., waltham, ma, usa
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 16:00:00 GMT


recordings of the 14th:

Mstislav Rostropovich, Ensemble of Soloists of the Moscow Phil.
Columbia/Melodiya LP 34507
Galina Vishnevskaya, soprano; Mark Reshetin, bass

this was recorded in 1973.  it is passionate and authoritative.  mark
reshetin is fantastic in the solo bass part.


Bernard Haitink, Concertgebouw Orch.
London (i'm sure its on CD, but i don't know the number).
Julia Varady, soprano; Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, bass (isn't he a
							baritone?) 

recorded in 1980.  Fischer-Dieskau, is truly a great, of course, but
he was getting on in years when this was recorded.  i definitely
prefer reshetin.  the interesting thing about this recording is that
it has the poems sung in their original languages, as opposed to the
the rostropovich, which is a recording of the original version which
has them sung in russian.  its interesting to have both, but i love
the sound of sung russian, further strengthening my preference for the
rostropovich.

the sym. no. 14 was written in 1969 and dedicated to benjamin britten
who conducted the premier at the aldeburgh festival in 1970.  it is
scored for soprano and bass voices, string orchestra and percussion.
to my mind it is more easily apprehendable as chamber music: a song
cycle or a chamber opera than as a symphony.  and for me, it has the
fascinating scoring one expects from dsch, and very dramatic,
compelling settings.

anyone ever heard the Suite on Verses by Michaelangelo, Op. 145?  the
two have quite a bit in common, imho.
-- 

/steve
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: syti@jyu.fi (Syti-projekti)
Subject: Re: fourteenth bashers: get a grip
Followup-To: alt.fan.shostakovich
Summary: Well, what would YOU write about death?
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 07:28:55 GMT


In article <1992Aug25.125547.20398@bnlux1.bnl.gov> schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder) writes:
[Previous messages deleted]
>
>"Oh, please" indeed.  Everyone has their own feelings on a piece of
>music.  I'm afraid that I have to join the crowd on this one.  I just
>can't bring myself to listen to that one.  I'm holding it in reserve for
>some night when I decide to engage in extended contemplations of death
>or suicide.
>
>
>
>-- 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Gary Schroeder	                |  Warning: prolonged exposure to this
>schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov         |  .sig may cause retinal damage and 
>Brookhaven National Laboratory  |  blistering skin rashes. 

Well, there's a very nice piece in that symphony-cantata about what
becomes of a suicide... Perhaps you should listen to it one of these
nights :-) :-).

I agree wholeheartedly that everyone has a right to his/her taste.
Personally I like the 14th very much, indeed I'd place it third or
fourth in my personal list of favourite Shost. symphonies, but I can see
how "Malaguena" or the "Suicide" (actually, I have no idea of the
English names of the parts having a German recording...) might be
too much for some people. Those of you who find the symphony too
harsh, have you tried listening to the _last_ few movements? I'd say
they are more easy listening than the rest of the work (relatively,
of course).

More seriously :-), as this is a piece about death, which, we may
remember, was not very far away from DS at this time, what would you
expect it to sound like? For example, Mahler's 6th and 9th are
pretty harsh works too...

Veli-Pekka
-- 
Veli-Pekka Tahvanainen  |All opinions are sole- |This ain't no party
University of Jyvaskyla |ly mine unless explic- |This ain't no disco
Finland                 |itly otherwise stated, |This ain't no fooling around
vpt@hyeena.jyu.fi       |and subject to change! | D.Byrne:"Life during wartime"
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: danny@cs.su.oz.au (Danny)
Subject: Re: 14th/5th
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 02:01:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.171054.19636@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA]) writes:
>bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
>
>>I now know why later in life D.S. called Mravinsky an "Insensitive buffoon."
>>Poor Dmitri.....all he had was Mravinsky for a while.....
>
>phew you've saved me from going out and getting 'em. Someone told me
>his 10 was really good...
>
>Dmitri is lucky he met and liked Neeme Jarvi, even if it was late
>in life. Maybe I should gif the picture I have of Jarvi and Shost
>and Jarvi's kids from '69 (hey about the time of the 14th symphony
>even ;-) )...

Well I borrowed Mravinsky's recordings of the 8th and 15th from a friend,
and thought the 15th was good and the 8th brilliant (better than the
Haitink I have).  Some of Mravinksy's recordings probaby have dubious
sound, which may be responsible for your dislike.

As for Jarvi, he will be my first choice when I complete my collection
of symphonies (I've got his 4th, 10th and the 2 violin concertos) but
I would want to listen to the alternative Haitink and Mravinsky recordings
(and perhaps some others) before making a decision.

Danny.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA])
Subject: The 2nd Piano Concerto
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:42:26 EST


        What do people think of the 2nd Piano Concerto? I love it!

        Maxim writes in the CD of the 2nd Piano Concerto's liner notes:
        
        When  my  sister and I were children still,  our  father,  Dmitri 
        Dmitrievich  Shostakovich, to encourage our interest  in  musical 
        studies, would periodically make gifts to us of new piano  pieces 
        he had composed. As our skills developed, the pieces became  more 
        difficult. We were delighted to learn them and performed them  at 
        home  for relatives and guests. Subsequently, these  pieces  were 
        collected into special "Children's Albums". One of these  pieces, 
        "The Birthday", written for my sister's birthday, then served  as 
        the  principal  theme of the celebrated  "Festival  Overture"  by 
        Shostakovich. Later, when I was studying in Music School,  father 
        wrote  for me much more complicated pieces such  as  "Tarantella" 
        and  "concertino"  for two pianos, which we played  and  recorded 
        with  him. But my dream as well as the dream of my beloved  piano 
        teacher, Elera Hoven, with whom I and then my son Dmitri  studied 
        from early childhood, was a big, serious piano concerto, which we 
        kept soliciting from the composer. Finally, our perseverance  was 
        rewarded and to our enormous joy the concerto was written. I  was 
        especially proud of the fact that father dedicated it to me.  Its 
        music  is  clear,  demanding,  intended  for  young   performers, 
        permeated  itself  by youthful audacity. The  first  movement  is 
        energetic  and  bright.  In  contrast,  the  second  movement  is 
        surprisingly  pure, with a touch of sadness. An  airy,  hastening 
        finale,  wittily  inlaid  with  fragments  from  Hanon's  student 
        exercises, completes this brilliant concerto.
        
        The CD contains the 2nd Piano Concerto, Op.102 played by
        Dmitri Shostakovich, jnr, with Maxim Shostakovich conducting
        I Musici De Montreal.
        
        It also contains the Symphony for Strings, Op.118a with 
        Yuli Tyrovsky conducting the same group.
        
        I  think this is a very fine recording of the concerto,  ignoring 
        who  is playing and conducting it. With the Shostakovichs at  the 
        helm  it is even better and holds a wonderful place in  recording 
        history. 
        
        This CD is Chandos 8443.
        
        What does everyone else think?

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard A. Muirden, System Administator, Wesley College :)
E-Mail: ram@lionet.wesley.OZ.AU, s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU, ram@tintern1.?? 
----------------- Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" ---------------------
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder)
Subject: Re: fourteenth bashers: get a grip
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 12:55:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug24.171558.651@HQ.Ileaf.COM> anton@HQ.Ileaf.COM (steve norton) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.173630.29888@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA]) writes:
>> bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton) writes:
>> 
>> >exception is the Fourteenth; I don't find much in that piece.  A friend
>> >of mine has subtitled it "9 cats and a hammer" and I have to agree
>> >with him.
>> 
>> Yes! I have this CD and hardly ever put it on, and if I do decide
>> I need to get my money's worth (:-)) I end up turning it off after
>> a little while because it is just so awful and everything...

>oh, please.  the fourteenth is positively one of my favourites.


"Oh, please" indeed.  Everyone has their own feelings on a piece of
music.  I'm afraid that I have to join the crowd on this one.  I just
can't bring myself to listen to that one.  I'm holding it in reserve for
some night when I decide to engage in extended contemplations of death
or suicide.



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary Schroeder	                |  Warning: prolonged exposure to this
schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov         |  .sig may cause retinal damage and 
Brookhaven National Laboratory  |  blistering skin rashes.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: 14th rostropovich
From: bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 08:13:13 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

Thanks to all that posted concerning the rostrpovich/14th! i really appreciate
having you all as a source! 
 
     I ran out and bought it (on Lp). I am sure that rostrpovich will do
another recording of the 14th soon. Either with the LSO or NPO. ( his 7th with
the Nat'l phil is a kick by the way...try it if you want another version, also
i have the Toscanini NBC recording recently reissued....very interesting
indeed!
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: nsn@ee.mu.OZ.AU (Nick Nicholas)
Subject: Fave shosty symphony: riiiight of the top of my head
Organization: Electronic and Electrical Engineering - University of Melbourne 
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 04:36:50 GMT

May I be controversial on this topic tooooo? :) Not controversial enough,
because I haven't heard the 14th yet... :) (and strangely, I *still* haven't
taken to Das Lied von der Erde... I wonder if that's a warning...)

the 9th. My first Shosty symphony, and dammit, it's a subtle little piece,
with lots to say.
the 7th. I think the flute recitative in the 3rd movement is a mistake, and
the finale is a bit brutish, but the 1st movement has *never* left me
disappointed.
the 4th. I only heard it once (gotta go hear it again soon) --- and it
scared the shit out of me! *Damn* effective stuff.

The 5th I find just alright (but have to get more familiar with), the 15th
and the 6th (very different works) I have a *lot* of time for, the 8th seems 
to me to drag a bit (I won't hold this view adamantly before a lot of 
marauding shosty fans though :) , the 2nd is, um, interesting :) , and what 
I've heard of the 10th (first two movements), I liked. The 11th is competent
program music, moving in places, but I'm not sure it says that much about
the human condition. The 1st is quite impressive, but I'd have to hear it
some more before I decided if I actually liked it. I've yet to hear the 3rd, 
12th, 13th or 14th. And it having been at least three months since I heard 
any of these anyway, I don't know what I'm talking about :)

So is anyone gonna do an alt.fan.mahler now, or what? :)

PS: Bummer, I *knew* I shoulda watched Testimony instead of irc-ing :(

---				
Nick Nicholas: [s]h[r]ug-osexual.  Greek, short, greasy, romantic, and as
B1 f+ t- w s-? e- r-- dr+(+)	   bi as he wants to be. [ObMauveHeptagon]
nsn@munagin.ee.mu.oz.au (IRC: nicxjo).  Likes Cavafy, Mahler, and cashews.
						      ^^^^^^ AND shosty %^)
From: s892024@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Richard A. Muirden [GA])
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Testimony - frightening but a great film...
Date: 27 Aug 92 07:07:36 GMT

First Prize: Dinner with Stalin.
Second Prize: A week with Stalin.

Old joke.

cripes. says it all.

poor Dmitri

-richard
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: RE: Festive Overture
From: bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 18:12:19 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

	After rolling my eyes at all of the "jarvi-heads" out there, i am going
to recommend his recording of festive overture. :) Figures......
 It can be found along with the Ninth on Chandos. IMHO it really captures the
mood (and SPEED). Have any of you tried the overture on Russian and Kirghiz
folk tunes? AGAIN--jarvi (ican't believe it TWO jarvi recommendations...ugh) on
DG with the 15th and OCTOBER. TRY IT. We're doing the latter overture at my
conservatory this year (at my bidding!) and it is fantastic.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 19:49:56 EDT
From: <HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Festive Overture

I am looking for an excellent CD of the Festive Overture.

Any suggestions?

| HANS C. MASING                   | A BAD ATTITUDE IS THE      |
| HCM100 @ PSUVM.PSU.EDU           | DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE     |
| MANAGEMENT INFORMATION SYSTEMS   | WAY I THINK AND THE WAY    |
| PENN STATE UNIVERSITY            | YOU THINK I SHOULD THINK.  |
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder)
Subject: Re: the 14th/rostropovich?
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 12:57:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug24.164544.1@vax1.umkc.edu> bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
>I find the fourteenth possibly the most difficult to get to know. A bad
>recording can make it even more difficult. Listen to a couple of versions
>before dropping the work from your libraries... Does Rostropovich have a
>version out? I know Haitink does...probably Jarvi. (Since you are all in love
>with him! :) )


I have the Haitink version, which, acoustically, is a fine recording.
It dosen't help.


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary Schroeder	                |  Warning: prolonged exposure to this
schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov         |  .sig may cause retinal damage and 
Brookhaven National Laboratory  |  blistering skin rashes. 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA])
Subject: Re: Festive Overture
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:34:44 EST

HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

>I am looking for an excellent CD of the Festive Overture.

>Any suggestions?

YES! This is easy ;-)

Get the version on the Chandos recording. I'm not too sure of the
number, but it is coupled with the Symphony No. 9, Tea for Two Op.16
and a suite from Katerina Ismalova...

Of course it's the SNO/Jarvi performing! ;-)


>| HANS C. MASING                   | A BAD ATTITUDE IS THE      |
>| HCM100 @ PSUVM.PSU.EDU           | DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE     |
>| MANAGEMENT INFORMATION SYSTEMS   | WAY I THINK AND THE WAY    |
>| PENN STATE UNIVERSITY            | YOU THINK I SHOULD THINK.  |

-richard

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard A. Muirden, System Administator, Wesley College :)
E-Mail: ram@lionet.wesley.OZ.AU, s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU, ram@tintern1.?? 
----------------- Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" ---------------------
From: bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: The 13th from "Testimony" (was Re: the 14th/rostropovich?)
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:30:42 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1992Aug28.152212.3894@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA]) writes:

>  ....  Who thinks the 13th sounds good in english as
>sung in Testimony? I think the russian is far better, even if I
>don't understand a word!!

Read the liner notes.  I, too, prefer the lyrics by Yevtuchenko in the
original Russian.  For one thing, it's poetry.  The music follows the rhythm
of the poetry so well.  It rhymes where it has to rhyme, and doesn't where it 
doesn't.  I generally dislike poetry but the beauty of the poetry is just
so lovely, I can't help myself.  In fact, I, at one time, learned the 
lyrics by rote and sang them in the shower.

-- 
Bob Sutton                        Love, most bitterly and fiercely oppresses
bobs@gnu.ai.mit.edu		  those who fight it than those who offer
al876@cleveland.freenet.edu       their servitude.    -- Ovid (Amores)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: gustavo@dent.uchicago.edu (Gustavo Comezana)
Subject: Re: the 14th/rostropovich?
Organization: Dept. of Mathematics, U. of Chicago
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:04:26 GMT

    The recording in question does exist and is currently available on
CD; it is a Melodiya import, and is distributed by Koch. If you have
trouble finding it, I suggest you try getting it from the same source
as I did (Muchnick's, in Philadelphia; 1-800-373-9873), although I
suppose that any well-stocked record dealer should carry it. The
recording is excellent, well up to Western standards, and the reading
itself is the best I have heard (by far).


    About other recordings, I would like to issue a warning ot those
considering Haitink: his version is *not* in Russian, but has each of
the poems in its original language, which not only is not in line with
the composer's original intentions, but simply does not work (IMHO).
So, if you are sensitive to matters of language, the very least I'd
say is: check it out before you buy it.

    In reference to the ongoing controversy about this piece, I'd like
to say that it is at the very top of my own list of favorite
Shostakovich works, sharing honors with the First Violin Concerto and
Sixth and Eight Symphonies (not very popular choices, I know).

                                   G.C.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Learner's Manual.
From: bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 06:13:50 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

The Learner's Manual on Erato is catalogued as:

                        ECD 75571



Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA])
Subject: What happened to Shost's daughter?
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:44:32 EST

We all know what happened to Maxim, and then Dmitri jnr (well so far
anyway), but what ever happened to DS's daughter? I believe she became
a pianist (how predictable :) ), but what then? Or is she still playing
in a small St. Petersberg (never Moscow!) night spot? :-)

just wondering...

-richard

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard A. Muirden, System Administator, Wesley College :)
E-Mail: ram@lionet.wesley.OZ.AU, s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU, ram@tintern1.?? 
----------------- Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" ---------------------
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA])
Subject: Re: Fave shosty symphony: riiiight of the top of my head
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:26:57 EST

nsn@ee.mu.OZ.AU (Nick Nicholas) writes:

SHOSTY?!~?!? SHOSTY!??!?! SHOSTY!??!!

COME ON NSN!!! You can't insult Dmitri like that!!!!

>May I be controversial on this topic tooooo? :) Not controversial enough,
>because I haven't heard the 14th yet... :) (and strangely, I *still* haven't
>taken to Das Lied von der Erde... I wonder if that's a warning...)

You can borrow my 14th if you like ;-)

>the 9th. My first Shosty symphony, and dammit, it's a subtle little piece,
>with lots to say.

Yes, the hollow victory at the end really sticks it up stalin. Pitty
they really got back at Dmitri :-(

>the 7th. I think the flute recitative in the 3rd movement is a mistake, and
>the finale is a bit brutish, but the 1st movement has *never* left me
>disappointed.

Nor should it.... very impressive..

>the 4th. I only heard it once (gotta go hear it again soon) --- and it
>scared the shit out of me! *Damn* effective stuff.

The Jarvi version is totally frighttening... *phew*

>The 5th I find just alright (but have to get more familiar with), the 15th

the 5th and the 10th are two of the best works of the century, IMHO.
The 15th isn't very far behind...

>and the 6th (very different works) I have a *lot* of time for, the 8th seems 
>to me to drag a bit (I won't hold this view adamantly before a lot of 
>marauding shosty fans though :) , the 2nd is, um, interesting :) , and what 

All those dense tones and so on in the first movement... ugh!

Expermiental shost...

>I've heard of the 10th (first two movements), I liked. The 11th is competent

The first movement is simply awesome!!!!

Try the 11-13 minute mark.. 

>program music, moving in places, but I'm not sure it says that much about
>the human condition. The 1st is quite impressive, but I'd have to hear it
>some more before I decided if I actually liked it. I've yet to hear the 3rd, 
>12th, 13th or 14th. And it having been at least three months since I heard 
>any of these anyway, I don't know what I'm talking about :)

>So is anyone gonna do an alt.fan.mahler now, or what? :)

you want? easy to do ;-)


>PS: Bummer, I *knew* I shoulda watched Testimony instead of irc-ing :(

You can borrow my tape if you like ;-)


>---				
>Nick Nicholas: [s]h[r]ug-osexual.  Greek, short, greasy, romantic, and as
>B1 f+ t- w s-? e- r-- dr+(+)	   bi as he wants to be. [ObMauveHeptagon]
>nsn@munagin.ee.mu.oz.au (IRC: nicxjo).  Likes Cavafy, Mahler, and cashews.
>						      ^^^^^^ AND shosty %^)

Stop saying shosty!!! ;-)

-richard

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard A. Muirden, System Administator, Wesley College :)
E-Mail: ram@lionet.wesley.OZ.AU, s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU, ram@tintern1.?? 
----------------- Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" ---------------------
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich