From: dave@bradley.bradley.edu (David Vessell)
Subject: Re: Are recent Libertarian crusades not libertarian?
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 22:25:26 GMT

mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson) writes:

>dave@bradley.bradley.edu (David Vessell) writes:
>
>|Ya know, I've been thinking about this for some time now, and I think I
>|agree with him.  If we place adequate restrictions on government, then
>|there should be no need for term limits.
>
>I also agree with you.  But then again the founding fathers thought that they
>had adequate safeguards built in as well.  And we all know how well those
>have worked.
>I have near infinite confidence in the ability of politicians to find a
>way around any restrictions placed in their path, especially if the have
>a compliant court to back them up.
>That is why I have concluded that the best solution is to give each and
>everyone of them the boot before they have a chance to get to comfortable.

I've never been able to understand this phenomenon.  We *elect* our
representatives, do we not?  Is it not our responsibility to vote them out
if we so choose?  It amazes me how much I hear this:

Mr. Dude: I think Dick Gephardt is a dishonest sleazebag out for his own gain.
davE:     So, who are you going to vote for?
Mr. Dude: Gephardt.
davE:     But you just called him a sleazebag.
Mr. Dude: Yeah, but at least if I vote for him I know things aren't going
	to get any worse.  I don't know *what* that other guy would do.

We don't need term limitations, we need ballot access reform.  We need
congressional controls.  We need encumbent privelege removed.

We also need to start sacrificing a bit.  We see Senator X push through the
East Dakota Pork Barrel Act of 1993 and we say, "What a scum sucking pig!
Term limits!  Term limits!"  Meanwhile, the voters in East Dakota are
reelecting Senator X *because* he is good at landing pork.  That pork pays
for roads and schools and government services that the people feel entitled
to because they have their tax money siphoned off.  So the pork scramble
spreads, because if people in East Dakota are going to have a stab at my
tax money, then I'm going to get a piece of theirs, godammit!  I've
paraphrased de Tocqueville before with his quote "When voters realize
their ability to vote themselves public largesse, the decline of American
civilization will have begun."  Well, I argue that it's begun already by
the people's insistence on reelecting porkbarrel politicians.  And nothing
will change until we all decide to give up security for freedom.  Another
common exchange:

davE: The LP would like to eventually do away with the income tax.
Dude: Great!  Then I'll have more money to spend.
davE: Maybe you should save some money for the future.
Dude: Naw, I don't need to do that.  I'll get social security when I
	retire.

These are the same people who keep reelecting useless incumbents.  Now, one
of my prime arguments in favour of libertarianism is that it shouldn't be
against the law to be stupid.  Hell, if these folks I've talked to are any
indication, stupidity is downright democratic!  I don't mean to belittle
these people, but we elect the same politicians and keep the same taxes and
entitlements and laws restricting business because we as a society have
completely unlearned any sense of personal responsibility.  Unless you're a
homeless person, it's practically impossible to fail (i.e. die or starve to
death) because we argue that it's heartless and inhumane to let people go
hungry.  But without that threat of failure, we begin to undermine our
drive to succeed.  There are exceptions, and I'm sure people disagreeing
with me can find a list of counterexamples as long as their arm, but think
about it:  it's in their best short-term interest to undermine that drive,
since the people actually working and investing are actually viewed as
exploiting them, so they pass laws to restrict the very business that
provides their government-imposed minimum standard of living.

My point is (yes, Virginia, there is a point to all of this =-) is that
unless we as a country start addressing the mechanisms that caused the
whole government bureaucracy problem and subsequent loss of control of
government in the first place, that being a fundamental fear of failure, 
we are NEVER going to get our government straightened out until we are 
hopelessly in debt, have taxed every person and company into nonexistence, 
and have involuntarily reverted to a subsistence agrarian society (with 
the city dwellers slowly starving to death because you can't grow tomatoes 
on asphalt).

I apologize for my hysteria, but I hope it makes for lively debate.  Ciao,
dahlinks! =-)

-- 
*davE*   Making the world safe for intelligent dance music.  dave@bradley.edu.
########## David L. Vessell -- Bradley University Computing Services #########
Your shame is neverending. Just one psychological drama after another.-Erasure
Newsgroups: alt.politics.libertarian