HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: u883161@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Alex Tewes)
Subject: Through a looking glass, darkly
Organization: University of Tasmania (Australia)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 05:13:35 GMT

Greetings all!

I have a question that has been bothering me for a while.

Our group exists right at the edge of the world, in the far far Southern 
Reaches.  We only know the richness and variety of the SCA in the Greater Known
World from photos and the tales of travellers.  In looking at all the photos
which have made their way down to us, I notice the complete absence of black
faces.  Why is that?   Is the SCA in some way culture-specific in not being
interesting to blacks? or is there some prejudice involved?

My somewhat limited experience is that SCA folk are liberal in thought and deed
so I cannot believe that prejudice is the answer.  I understand that blacks 
make up about 13% of the USA population, if so, why do they appear to be so 
rare within our ranks?

I'm asking this out of sheer curiosity and hope not to have offended anyone.

Martin de Mont Blanc    (mka Alex Tewes)

Shire of Ynys Fawr/ Lochac/  West

Purpure, four bendlets enhanced
and in base a mullet of five, Or
From: dickeney@access.digex.com (Dick Eney)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Prepare to receive cavalry!
Date: 21 Dec 1992 03:34:00 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

RE: Shield Wall (was "Military digging")
I don't know who suggested that the infantry shield was to "absorb
the force of the (cavalry) charge".  No infantry god ever made
could resist a charge of heavy cavalry by the solidity of a shield
wall.  A charging armored horseman hit with about three times the
impact energy of a .30 caliber round; if what he hit was you, you
fell down and probably got trampled.  The way to avoid this was by
hitting him, or better still his horse, first, with a pike or a
polearm.  (Note that most pikemen or polearm men didn't carry
shields at all, so they could use their weapons with both hands.) 
By the time pikemen became the regular anti-cavalry fighters, plate
armor was cheap enough for most grunts to afford it.  This was
still better than a shield at keeping you from being taken out by
a missile weapon man before the cavalrymen got within reach of
_your_ weapon.  The use of a shield in melee, when this was
frequent, was to resist the spears or swords of hostile _infantry_
-- who didn't have the momentum of a horse to back up their blows.
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Date: 19 Dec 92 06:13:30
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.intel.com
In-reply-to: Floyd.Bullock@f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org's message of Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:22:00 -0700


With the talk of "truly awful period heraldry", it occured to me ..

Maybe what would be REALLY period is for people to massively bribe the 
College of Arms to get an otherwise unacceptable device passed ...
would the members of the College object to such a system ? :-)
--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
From: odlin@reed.edu (Iain Odlin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: HELP! name searching.
Date: 18 Dec 92 01:17:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Dec18.011756.14007
Organization: The Stuffed Animal Trauma Team  (We're Trained Professionals)


  Does anyone have a good source for period Scots names?  Preferably with the
  non-Anglicized spellings.

  advTHANKSance.
-- 
 --------------------------------- Iain Odlin ---------------------------------
                  10 Crosby Street, Level 3, Portland ME 04103
                                 odlin@reed.edu
 --------------- "Harold, of course, was immediately devoured." ---------------
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: SCA geography (was: through a looking ...)
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:50:51 GMT

John Doucette wrote:
  	When I was talking with some friends in the SCA I mentioned that 
  I'd like to form a Roman Cohort or a Highland Regiment.  They pointed out 
  that those two organizations were outside the period, one a few hundred 
  years before, the second a hundred years after.  I had not been aware of 
  the exact period being examined but when I was made aware, I changed my 
  mind.  I currently have no idea what kind of unit to form, but I am bending 
  my energies to working in period.

Technically, the SCA does not have an early cut off date, although to be
sure, it is much more popular and mainstream to be a person from after
the fall of Rome.  But one local that is very well respected, is exactly
from that period.  And if Ajax doesn't become a Knight within a few years,
I'll be very much surprised....

(You should have seen the car cover he made for his van, to camp in. It
was a giant cloth elephant, with ears that hung from the side mirrors,
glass eyes, and feet that covered the tires.  There was a rug over the
elephants back, that one one side lifted and became the entrance to
the side door.  Fabulous stuff.  Too bad the van died within the week).

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: keradwc@rahul.net (Kevin Davis Connery)
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Organization: Ringworld Engineering
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 14:59:49 GMT

In article <0Nw1VB2w165w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> boris@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (boris) writes:

>  "good" heraldry indeed. Come off it. one man's garbage is another man's 
>treasure.  I've got billions of pieces of 'good' heraldry that the SCA's 
>Coa would never pass. They for instance have no sense of Ha-Ha.  The 
>plain fact that they are working on a computerized database and wouldn't 
>allow a device with a computer in it is a nice bit of ironic hypocracy on 
>their part.  Heck if they're so stuck on period this and OOp that then 
>the least they can do is be heralds in period and do it all by hand with 
>quills.  
>
>  I have a gorgeous set of arms with an astronauts helmet for a helm and 
>a nova in a starfield, set in a hexagonal shield.  Nothing 'bad' about 
>that. Coa would hate it though.   

I suspect many in the collegee would enjoy it. But it does violate something
which the entire Society is at least putatively based on -- the middle ages.
You may have heard of them?

Much of the discussion of OOP articles ignores the premise (I'd call it fact,
but it is open to discussion) that the SCA is, or has some basis in historic
recreation. The level may vary, but it is an integral part of the group's
makeup; removing that changes more than just one part of the SCA.

Typewriters, computers, bi-plane winged camels, atomic symbols, etc., all
detract from that; in many cases the symbols meant something else to those
'in period', in others, even the construction would have been foreign. What
benefit is there in incorporating them? As is sometimes suggested, if you
want to play a game with NO time/place constraints, the SCA really isn't
the place. It doesn't have many, but it does have some.

Keradwc

-- 
Keradwc an Cai                     A Caidan Mistie (or was that a Misty Caidan?)
Kevin Davis Connery                kconnery@isi.com or  keradwc@rahul.net
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Aluminum Armour
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:32:16 GMT

In article <BzBpMu.CG6@news.cso.uiuc.edu> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:
>Also remember that it was until the early 20th century that Aluminum was
>as expensive as a precious metal [until the modern refining process was
>invented c.1900].  
>
>So if you wear Aluminum armor, remember that its price (even if it was
>refined in the Middle Ages) would be equal to a small kingdom! :)

It's worse than that...  Aluminum as a metal was unknown until
relatively recently.  While the Hall process of refining it is late
19th century (I think), Napoleon Bonaparte had an aluminum
spoon--refined by chemical means.  It cost more that the gold
implements his guests got to use.

Prior to the widespread use of the Hall process, you wouldn't have the
aluminum alloys either--and pure aluminum is rather soft.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |            You!
510-823-5447                 |    Out of the Gene Pool!
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: pavao@cae.wisc.edu (Pavao Aaron)
Subject: Re: SCA Role playing game
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 14 Dec 92 10:22:29 CST

In article <1g35boINNo14@lester.appstate.edu> GRS00045@CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU (Neal Townley) writes:
>Unto the rialto, does Niall MacFarlane send greetings!
>
>Gee.. an sca role playing game!
>I suppose Heralds would be Clerics because of their fanaticism
>(I cast thee out oh foul devil of heraldic tackyness)
>
>and wizards would be Laurels
>(I dont know about you... but I think some of the stuff I've seen
>made by our A+S people are pritty damn magical to me...)
>
>and me.. I'm a bard.. always have been.. always will be...
>
>
>Niall MacFarlane
>
	I know this is going to open all sorts of opportunities, but...

	Who would be the orks and ogres? ;)

-> Shandler (another Bard)

SCA: Chandler (Shandler) Greyfeathre
MKA: Aaron Pavao
NET: pavao@cae.wisc.edu
"I have seen the truth and it makes no sense."


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cearr@cwis.unomaha.edu (Jesse C. Neese)
Subject: Re: Sources for Rattan
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Distribution: USA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:20:27 GMT

           Greetings, 
     I may know you from Armourgeddon II.  If you're willing
to drive through Calontir, I know the Baron of Forgotten Sea has
quite a bit.  If you contact him he may also be able to send you
some.
                                CEARR MACBRENDAN
                             Lonely Tower, Calontir
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Estrella '93
Date: 14 Dec 92 09:37:22
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.intel.com
In-reply-to: estokien@jarthur.claremont.edu's message of Mon, 14 Dec 1992 09:07:34 GMT


estokien@jarthur.claremont.edu (Eric Stokien) writes:
] It has been rumored by people I know that the Estrella war is going to have
] to move for this next year.  This is supposably due to renovations at the
] park, and possibly late reservations last year.
]
] Does anyone know if this is true, and if it is, where the event is being 
] moved to.  Much thanks to any who are in the know.

Estrella is still in the same park. I think it may be in a different
part of the park. It's a big park. None of the local veterans seem worried.

Archery is 1 war point at Estrella this year.
A&S competition is 1 war point at Estrella this year.
Champions battles together are 1/2 a war point.
Combat Archery will be allowed in 4 battles.
Should be lots of fun for everybody : this will be my first
Estrella, and I'm really looking forward to it.
--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
From: c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Welch Garb question
Date: 13 Dec 92 21:31:54 GMT


	My lords and ladies, I send greetings from myself and my lady wife.

	My lady wife and I were discussing with one member of the Society his
plans to attend a Twelfth Night celebration when the gentle most kindly invited
us to attend with him.  This seemed to us to be an extraodrinarily good idea,
and it was not until later that we both came to an sobering conclusion:  Neither
of us have ANY idea what would be period for us to wear to such an event.
	This is the first event that either of us have been to, although I have
been toying with the idea of joining for some time, and have a basic idea of the
time and place our personas should hail from.  It is my thought that, as we are
married in real life it would be meet that we should be married in SCA life.  I
like the idea of being from Wales, somewhere within an easy half-days walk of
the coast, and in such a time where the cultural clash between Christian and
pre-Christian groups would be nearly, but not completely, over which my totally
uninformed speculation places around the tenth or eleventh century.  As she has
no objection, this is the period that we will be using.
	On a final note, it is I that will be sewing our garb.  My skill with a
neddle, and our budget is limited, so the simpler a suggested piece of garb, and
the cheaper the clother needed to make it, the better.

	ANY help is more than welcome, and is, in fact GREATLY appreciated.

					Thank you for your time and assistance,
						Michael Carson, the uninformed.

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Crown Tourney Requirements (was Re: Heraldic questions...)
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:50:47 GMT

In article <1gl8h0INNcct@agate.berkeley.edu> dgreen@thor (David Greenebaum) writes:
>Greetings from Bjalfi!
>
>Quoth Godfrey:
>>Carolus Malvoix writes:
>>> Just how many restrictions does Caid have on who may enter crown
>>> tourney?
>>> To put this into perspective, An Tir has only one, so far as I
>>> know:
>>> You and your designated consort must be members of the SCA.
>>What, you don't have to be an authorised fighter who lives in An Tir?  :-)
>
>I _think_ that in the West there is no residency requirement.  If
>you're a visiting Trimarian and want to enter Western crown lists
>and be pummeled by Westerners, you're welcome to do so.  (And they
>call Carolingians chauvinists!!)

There is no residency requirement in the West.  The only restrictions
are the Corporate ones--like membership.  There is the usual caveat of
'acceptable to the Crwon', which is very rarely invoked.  By entering
the Lists you are promising to fulfill the commitments of the reign
which means you'd ahve to come back three more times for your own
Coronation, the next Corwn Tourney, and your successor's Coronation.
However, we should alo note that a typical Western Crown Lists has
anywhere from 90 to over 100 fighters in it and we've been growing
lately....

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |            You!
510-823-5447                 |    Out of the Gene Pool!
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |
From: arion@conquest.ksu.ksu.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Through a looking glass, darkly
Date: 15 Dec 1992 21:54:43 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: conquest.ksu.ksu.edu


I regret to inform you that I have known a few racists here in the Shire of
Spinning Winds, which is in Calontir.  I know that this is certainly not the	
opinion of the Shire as a whole, nor of the SCA.  However, because one racist
is an esteemed personage here, it reflects on the whole.		

				      -Alaric	
From: Riki.Beth.Stein@f906.n142.z1.fidonet.org (Riki Beth Stein)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Through a looking glass,
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 12:18:10 -0500

Bertram asked:
 >  How often do folks chose personas that are _connected_ to their
 >  actual racial/ethnic background, versus the stereotypical 
 >  "blond samurai" ?
 >

I deliberately chose an unconnected one.  My persona is a sixteenth-century
Venetian Catholic; my mundane ancestry is Eastern European Jewish.
People who recreate specifically Jewish personas tend to impose
authentic restrictions on themselves, which the Society doesn't require.
Since I joined to have fun, why would I want to choose a persona from
a group that was severely restricted in my period?

Of course, I look fairly similar to sixteenth-century portraits of
Italian ladies, the dark-haired ones anyway.

-Riki

... This is your brain. This is your brain on thrones...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Scope of the SCA (was Re: Through a looking glass, darkly)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:39:02 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval! 

Replying to Martin's question about non-white races in the SCA, Raedwynne
wrote: 

> ...beyond the shining borders of the Rialto there are many who truly
> believe, in good or sometimes bad faith, that the purpose of the SCA is
> to explore the _European_ Middle Ages.

It was not clear from your posting what you believe to be the scope of the
SCA, but it is well-defined.  Corpora defines the scope of the Society as
"pre-1600 western civilization."  That is not synonymous with "Europe",
since it obviously includes western Asia, the Near and Middle East, and
North Africa, but it does not include the entire world.  That doesn't mean
that people who draw their personae from other areas are to be excluded,
but to paraphrase the essay in the Organizational Handbook, it does mean
that they should expect to adapt to our western-based culture, rather than
expecting the rest of the Society to adapt to them.  

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: robear@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Jay Michael)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: 8th century persona
Date: 18 Dec 92 05:30:29 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

I've been involved with SCA off and on for about four years now.  I've
picked it up again just recently, and found that I should resolve a few
things about my persona.  When I was looking for a period name I came across
an Anglo-Saxon one I was interested in (Aelfgar).  As for a place and time
period, I found Charlemange's "Germany" interesting . . . which poses a bit
of a conflict.  So instead of scrapping either one idea or the other, I was
wondering how period such a merger would be, how might it come about.  I've
tossed about with the notion that I was a traveller of sorts that found
middle Europe to his liking and stayed there, picking up some local custom
and other accoutrements, but maintaining his original name.  I am unsure
of the plausability of this . . . if anyone had any insights I would be
most interested!

I thank you all, Aelfgar

robear@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu



From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 16:44:51

    Lyle FitzWilliam wrote:
 LF> Reply-To: gray@ibis.cs.umass.edu (Lyle FitzWilliam)

 LF> In article <92Dec10.152600.33155@acs.ucalgary.ca> parr@acs.ucalgary.ca
 LF> (Charles Parr) writes:

 LF> >Could someone who understands these things post an explanation
 LF> >of precisely what constitutes "conflict"?

 LF> I can't give you a precise rule listing of conflict, but I can summarize:
 LF> "Conflict" is when one device might be easily mistaken for another.

 A "conflict" is an armorial design that is not sufficiently different from
 an existing protected design to permit its registration by the SCA College
 of Arms. What constitutes "sufficiently different" and "protected design"
 are specified in the Rules for Submissions and the Administrative Handbook
 issued by the Laurel King of Arms.

    Tadhg, Obelisk

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Aluminum Armour (was Re: HELP WANTED RE KINGDOM AWARDS)
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:27:19 GMT

In article <DOCONNOR.92Dec16090456@potato.sedona.intel.com> doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:
>this
>armour will protect me in war, which is my primary reason for
>making it : the authenticity issue is secondary.

But should it be?

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |            You!
510-823-5447                 |    Out of the Gene Pool!
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Through a looking glass, darkly
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:00:24

 AT> which have made their way down to us, I notice the 
 AT> complete absence of black
 AT> faces.  Why is that?   Is the SCA in some way 
 AT> culture-specific in not being
 AT> interesting to blacks? or is there some prejudice involved?
   I think that it's *mainly* the culture-specific thang.  We do have 
 three black people involved in our local group (Dallas, Texas), and 
 they are friends of us all.  I'm not sure of the exact problem -- it 
 may be that we don't do demos in demographically mixed areas, or that 
 we are interested in Western Europe, which was not particularly 
 friendly to dark faces.  Not that we, personally, are unfriendly, just 
 that the dark faces may assume, without checking, that we are because 
 we are studying a period of time in a place that was.
     It may be that invisible barrier of "fitting in".  They don't see 
 a black face, and they are not sufficiently interested in the topic 
 to be the first.  The equally invisible educational barriers may also 
 cause a problem.  The SCA is only attractive to a certain small 
 percentage of the population, which generally tends to be well-educated 
 and well-read.  Black people who are similarly well-educated and 
 well-read are rarer than their white counterparts, through no fault of 
 their own.  I have also noted that the educated blacks I know seem to 
 be of a more serious nature than the educated whites I know.  It may 
 be the problems caused by climbing out of the hole America has shoved 
 their people into for so many years.....
     Anyway, this is just my ramblings along the topic.  Any bearing 
 on reality is probably minimal -- except that we really do have 3 black 
 people involved locally.  Out of a group of, oh, 50-60 fairly active 
 folks, that's a pretty small percentage...
      Gwenllian Cwmystwyth, Steppes, Ansteorra

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Re-joining the SCA as a Bandit
Date: 20 Dec 92 22:36:32
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.intel.com
In-reply-to: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca's message of 21 Dec 92 01:36:33 GMT


There seems to have been a certain joy I got in my own youth
from aquiring worthwhile enemies. As I have gotten older,
that joy has faded, and I have replaced it with others.

For some reason this thread made me think of this.

--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mdewis@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au ( Mark Richard Dewis)
Subject: Re: membership costs too high for Canadians?
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 04:16:49 GMT

In article <724151131snx@babel.DIALix.oz.au>, del@babel.DIALix.oz.au (D Elson) writes:
>Just my $0.02 worth (plus 10c stamp duty and $7 draft fees, converted
>at $US0.69=$A1.00, makes it about $7.13).

Um... Del, that comes to A$7.12 (actually A$7.15 in cash terms :)
which I figure at US$4.91 (or US$4.93 in cash terms :)

You really DO need a break from the exchequer, eh?

Richard of Dunheved, Lochac :
-- 

mdewis@pieman.compserv.utas.edu.au ... but you can call me Richard.
Forma Propositum Perpetuo Praecedit. 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca