HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: be honest and you might get some respect
Date: 23 Jul 92 09:38:34 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <l6r4p1INNo8p@pollux.usc.edu> mcyang@pollux.usc.edu (Bien-Chao Iunn) writes:
>So, those countries which seceded from the Great Big Britain, such as
>the U.S, Canada, New Zealand and Austrlia, ..etc, are ALL worse off ??!!

All the places (except for Ireland) which were once part of British
territory were so far away from each other that it's impossible for
one to really affect each other.  The British rule in Ireland was
oppressive enough (and the resulting civil disorder was messy enough)
that both were indeed better off.

>Oh, I forgot to remind you that Taiwan needs no secession.   Taiwan IS
>a de facto independent country already.

I have no objection to a sovereign state called the Republic of China
whose jurisdiction includes only Taiwan.  I feel this is the best path
toward a unified Chinese community.  I argue that it is in the best
interest of Taiwan, to be a sovereign part of a "big China" which will
resemble the European Community in structure with a common set of
economic laws, unified economy, a joint foreign policy, and perhaps
after enough time has passed for trust to build, a joint defense
system.

If this is acceptable to you, then we can stop arguing.

If this is not acceptable to you, then political independence is not
the core of our dispute.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: kzumy@watnow.waterloo.edu (Kazuo Uezumi)
Subject: Re: NBC......Gan!
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 04:17:19 GMT

In article <uc=vHfkfp8@atlantis.psu.edu> jclee@atlantis.psu.edu (Chieh-Sheng Lee;;blue) writes:
>I waited two hours just for seeing the appearance of the athletes from
>"Chinese Taipei" in the opening ceremony of the Olympics, and finally
>it's "Swaziland". After the commercial, however, the camera switched
>to the Torch outside the stadium and what did I see next? "Tchekoslovakia"
>(Czechoslovakia).........
>
>I can't help but say: Gan, NBC! (If my memory serves me right, they
>screwed me up 4 years ago, too).
>
>Jason Lee
>

	You should have known by now that americans are just like
that. Dream team, american flag,..., why don't they mention something
like riot, recessions? The image of the superpower country is merely a
joke.
From: mengweil@nunki.usc.edu (Meng-Wei Lin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Olympic Baseball Games (Was Re: Our Olympic Baseball Team vs US Te
Date: 30 Jul 1992 10:59:22 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: nunki.usc.edu
Keywords: Baseball of

In article <1992Jul30.174925.5292@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> rsanders@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (RRobert M Sanders) writes:
>In English we have a special term to refer to getting all four types of hits in
>one game.  It is called "hitting for the cycle."  Does Chinese have an 
>equivalent term?  If so, please let me know what it is.
>
>Robert Sanders

Maybe in Chinese we can call it "Da4 Man3 Guan4."

Mengwei Lin     
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: pcteoh00@nx33.mik.uky.edu (Pek Chan Teoh)
Subject: looking for Malaysians who are studying at NTU(Tai Da)
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:44:48 GMT

	I am looking for Malaysians who are studying in NTU (National  
Taiwan University). Can somebody out there help me to locate them? E-mail  
addresses of them will be very fine. Thanks a lot.
From: yang@dante.cs.uiuc.edu (Der-Shung Yang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: abortion, homosexuality vs. Christians (Was: Racial Problem?
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:02:53 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL


cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:

>Anti-Abortion movement, strongly pushed by Catholic Church and member in 
>U.S. are only an viecles for those Catholic project their influnce over
>U.S.'s political lifes.
>Those nations in Europe which have most Catolic population, most 
>have liberal abortion laws.


George_Lin@mindlink.bc.ca (George Lin) writes:

>What do you mean by accept?
>Biblically, both abortion and homosexuality are sins.  It is very clear as far
>as I am concerned.  I could give you a list of Bible versus to support the
>Biblical point of view.

I guess the second sentence of what Chunde said is true. At least France
has the famous abortion pill, which is illegal in the U.S. So, I'm still
wondering what the Bible really says about abortion (and homosexuality).
George, could you quote some Bible verses (sp?) to prove that these two
things are really sins from the viewpoint of Bible?

Thanks.

--
DerShung Yang    
yang@cs.uiuc.edu 
Beckman Institute
Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
From: tsai@tecrus.enet.dec.com (Kuo-Yeang Tsai)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: UPI News: Taiwan delegation to visit Vietnam, discuss air links
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:10:39 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


        TAIPEI, Taiwan (UPI) -- A delegation of high ranking Taiwanese
government officials will soon visit Vietnam in hopes of opening direct
air links between Taipei and Ho Chi Minh City, state radio reported
Wednesday.
...
...
From: onghiok@ling.nthu.edu.tw (H.Samual Wang (035)715131-4398)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: American-Chinese food (was Re: fc, sushi, egg/spring rolls)
Date: 30 Jul 92 02:04:35 GMT
Organization: National Tsing Hua University (HsinChu)

James D. McCawley, Professor of Linguistics at University of Chicago,
has written a book entitled "The Eater's Guide to Chinese Characters"
(U. Chicago Press, 1984) (The bookstore at Normal University in Taipei
has a pirated edition), which teaches western people to read Chinese
menus.  This book is highly recommended.  If one wants to each
Chinese food, he is better off being able to read some Chinese characters.
S.W.
From: bsou@cs.arizona.edu (Brandon S. Ou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Question on Taiwan baseball (was Re: Taiwan Olympics Results)
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:10:18 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Jul28.071606.25761%onghiok@ling.nthu.edu.tw> onghiok@ling.nthu.edu.tw (H.Samual Wang (035)715131-4398) writes:

>> Just heard we lost to USA 10-9.  Can anybody confirm??
>This piece of information is correct.  Actually I think the guys
>are doing OK, only losing one point to the US. US was the champion
>in Seoul Olympics.  This time the baseball is an official item, and
>we can expect that the US will select a good team for the medal.
>I will be happy if the Taiwan baseball team can win a bronze medal,
>which is possible, but the boys have to fight real hard.

Just wondering, are the professional baseball players in the Taiwanese
league playing in the Olympics?


Brandon
--
Brandon S. Ou               Computer Science    
University of Arizona       Tucson, Arizona
Internet:  bsou@caslon.cs.arizona.edu
" It's up to YOU... "  - Kevin Costner as Jim Garrison, "JFK"
From: pan@arete.ATMOS.ColoState.Edu (Victor Pan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: God knows ! Re: Racial Problem?
Date: 29 Jul 92 23:18:44 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523


   now i see how a conversation can be carried on for days on the net. there will always be  
some self-centered "gentleman" who makes a statement like "the western women are lazy", and  
then 0.001%-ish of the population of that offended group happens to be interested in and  
care about everybody's opinion ( this is sorta contrary to the point of the First Amendment,  
isn't it?)....
   
   my experience tells me, generally speaking, A difference between the taiwanese (or  
chinese) and the americans ( in the u.s., i don't know about the "westerns" ) is that the  
latter tends to make statements like "Barkley is a jerk" which is easier for others to  
either accept or ignore. as a "chiwanese" being in the u.s. for 3 yrs, i would say: 
   1, as for being lazy or not, each individual is very different, i've seen either very  
sloppy one or mucho neat one
   2, some are bimbo's, some are witty, and some are smart too
   3, as for the looks, redheads are icky-poo to me. ( sorry, a personal taste which could  
vary with time )
   
   an interesting thing is that, one can be interested in somebody's instead of everybody's  
opinion, simply because there's only 7*24 hrs a week, so if it's not too late to stop  
reading this article, you can cut it out now :-)
From: George_Lin@mindlink.bc.ca (George Lin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: abortion, homosexuality vs. Christians (Was: Racial Prob
Date: 27 Jul 92 11:46:46 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

> Der-Shung Yang writes:
> 
> I guess the second sentence of what Chunde said is true. At least France
> has the famous abortion pill, which is illegal in the U.S. So, I'm still
> wondering what the Bible really says about abortion (and homosexuality).
> George, could you quote some Bible verses (sp?) to prove that these two
> things are really sins from the viewpoint of Bible?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> --
> DerShung Yang
> yang@cs.uiuc.edu


I'll have to dig up the info on abortion, but here is the homosexuality
stuff:

Follow is an taken from "HOMOSEXUALITY: WHAT THE BIBLE HAS TO SAY"
by Winston Sayson, barrister.

----------------------------------------------

PROPER AND NATUAL SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP:
Genesis 2:24
Genesis 9:7
1 Corinthians 7:3-4
Psalm 127:3

HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN:
Romans 1:24-27
Leviticus 18:22; 20:13
1 Thessalonians 4:7-8

HOMOSEXUALITY WILL BE JUDGED AND PUNISHED BY GOD:
Galatians 6:7
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
1 Thessalonians 4:3-8
Genesis 18 - 19:29

THE POWER OF THE GOSPEL CAN DELIVER ALL SINNERS INCLUDING HOMOSEXUALS:
2 Corinthians 5:17
Romans 1:16
1 Corinthians 6:11

------------------------------------------------------

--

 -------------------------------------------
| George Lin                  | 145.270 MHz |
| George_Lin@mindlink.bc.ca   |   VE7FKU    |
 -------------------------------------------
From: tylee@austin.ibm.com (Ter-Yuan Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: We support Taiwan Independence
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:59:19 GMT
Organization: IBM Austin Advanced Workstation Division
Originator: tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com


In article <1992Jul18.070930.21271@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, hwang@hermes.Berkeley.EDU (Kailan Hwang) writes:
> In article <l68njiINNm3m@pollux.usc.edu> mcyang@pollux.usc.edu (Bien-Chao Iunn) writes:
> =In article <75687@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
> =>Why?  CCP may be brutal and oppressive, but they are not stupid.  If TI
> =>doesn't happen, why would CCP want to invade Taiwan?
> =
> =Why?  CCP may be brutal and oppressive, but they are not stupid.  As long as
> =Taiwan doesn't pose a threat to China, why would CCP want to invade Taiwan?
> 
> 
> Yeaa, why CCP kills their own people and students?
> Why CCP invades Tibet and kills Tibetnese?
> Why CCP invades Vietnan and kill Vietnanese?
> 

Corrections to the above statements are needed. It always is a pain in the
butt to view this guy's sottish babbles.

Tibet is a part of China. It was not an invasion by any means.
Vietnam is not a part of China. Chinese did not invade Vietnam; the Chinese
were crossing the border in return for the invasion from the Vietnamese.

> Why people blinds thenselve on purpose?
>

Your "an eye for an eye" attitude makes you blind.
 
> If I ask my friend Greg "Why's some people always acting like jerks?"
> 
> Greg: "Cuuuzzz, they are jerks."
>

You stupid nerd.
 
> -- 
> | Above is my own opinion and I do not mind if Berkeley agrees with me. :-) |
> | E-Mail Addr.: hwang@postgres.berkeley.edu                                 | 
> | Real world: Kailan Hwang                              % flame > /dev/null |
> | "The job of a citizen is to keep his mouth open."    --- Gunter Grass     |
-- 
/* ------------------------------------------------------------------------- *\
 * The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of IBM's.         *
 *                                                                           *
 * Take care and have a nice day.                                            *
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.china
From: onghiok@ling.nthu.edu.tw (H.Samual Wang (035)715131-4398)
Subject: Re: God knows ! Re: Racial Problem?
Organization: National Tsing Hua University (HsinChu)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 07:04:47 GMT

zzuo@iastate.edu (Zhiqi Zuo) writes:
> >|>>>>Chinese culture is different for American culture. As a matter of
> >|>>>>fact, it is very rare for a Chinese man to marry an American woman.
> >|>>>             ^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Some back sounds: why is that?
> 
> Many chinese men are still kind of "conservative," this is only one of
> the important reasons, if not the most decisive one.
I had a conversation with one of my Canadian friends (female) years ago on
topic like this.  She said that from the western point of view, Chinese
women are attractive to western men, but Chinese men are not attractive
to western women.  Sigh! I am a Chinese man, unforturnately.
S.W.
From: mcyang@pollux.usc.edu (Bien-Chao Iunn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: We support Taiwan Independence
Date: 23 Jul 1992 13:41:18 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

In article <76217@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
>So do I.  That's why I don't think force is the best option for
>unification.				         ????

Hmmm ... not THE best option ....

Does that mean that it is still an option ?   I thought you don't like
CCP.  How come you have exactly the same way of thinking of CCP ?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.japan
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Subject: Re: Zen Story (14)
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:52:45 GMT

In article <Bs5w6G.FE9@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> ptyshih@watnow.uwaterloo.ca 
(Paul T.Y. Shih (Taku or Pear)) writes:

   >Monk Ching-swe once told monk Chao-shan (840-901AD);
   >"I am leading a very poor life, can you help me with it?"

   >After heard this, monk Chao-shan replied; "You've drank
   >three cups of good wine and you told me that you've never
   >tried the taste of good wine?"

  But this is only half of the story! After monk Chao-shan's comment,
monk Ching-swe retorted, "You silly old buffoon, this wine is clearly
part of the watered-down swill sold to us by your uncle." And to this
monk Chao-shan replied, "So what? Even tired old charlatans have to
make a buck somehow." After that they went on drinking the stuff in
silence.
From: phung@ATTMAIL.COM
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: HK: COMMEMORATION OF THE 55TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE SINO-JAPANESE WAR
Date: 21 Jul 92 07:50:10 GMT

COMMEMORATION OF THE 55TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE SINO-JAPANESE WAR IN HONG
KONG

On 7/7, the China Youth Service & Recreation Centre organized 
an event for the commemoration of the 55th Anniversary of the 
Sino-Japanese War in Hong Kong.  The event was co-sponsored by 
the Hong Kong Professional Teachers' Union, the Chinese Alliance for
Commemoration of the Sino-Japanese War Victims, and several other
organizations.  It took place beside the Tsim Sha Tsui bell tower, 
with an excellent view of the Victoria Harbour and the Hong Kong Island.

The event started at about 8pm.  It was in the form of a variety
show.  Several celebrities including Mr. Szeto Wah, Mr. Andrew Tu
(chairman of the Chinese Alliance for Commemoration of the Sino-Japanese
War Victims), and Dr. Chan Yiu Nam (Chinese Dept, HKU) were invited to
say a few words about the event.  Among the speeches Mr. Tu's was the
most memorable. In fact it was interrupted a few times by the audience's
applause.  Mr. Tu talked about the importance of remembering the
Sino-Japanese War as a historical lesson.  In particular, he
mentioned that a Japanese friend recently said something heart-breaking
to him,"If you (Chinese) forget, are we (Japanese) going to remember?"

A total of 17 verterans who fought in the War were invited
and tribute was paid to them for their contribution.  Also on the
program were chrous performances of songs during the War, and a talk
show on the commemoration of the War.  The event ended with a climax
when a documentary (in Cantonese) produced by the China Youth Service &
Recreation Centre was shown.  The documentary gave an account of
Japan's aggression on China from the last century to the present --
it probably is one of the most comprehensive documentaries on the
subject.

The production of the event was truely professional.  The event attracted 
about two hundred audience and was a remarkable success.
From: stlin@stevelin.Eng.Sun.COM (Steven Lin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: be honest and you might get some respect
Date: 25 Jul 1992 00:21:09 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: stevelin

In article <1992Jul24.221704.22788@ncsu.edu> shchen@eos.ncsu.edu writes:
>
>|>Taiwan needs no secession from CCP, but TIers have to be separated from
>|>Chinese people to be indepedent in your "Green Island". 
>China NEVER OWNED Taiwan either, but just made meaningless claims.

READ the above carefully. The China who owns Taiwan is ROC. Your TIers
have no problem with CCP. TIers are trying to steal something that their
parents own, come on! Don't be a weird kid who can only steal things!:-)

>|>You TIers are trying to steal property from home land that ROC owns.
>|>You TIers are trying to rename yourselves non-Chinese. You TIers are
>|>trying to change race, language, writing, history, and government.
>What's wrong with that?  Who wants to be a stinking Chinese all their lives.

Well, you can claim to be American, Japanese as you wish to get "GREEN card".
After denouncing Chinese, don't cry shame that you want go home that is no
longer your country! Your home is what GREEN crad shows, GREEN LAND.:-)
Come on! Don't be a weird kid who can only complain day by day!

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: jch@netcom.com (Jack Hwang)
Subject: Re: Radar detector in Taiwan ?
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 17:43:22 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Jul21.005428.11351@Veritas.COM> tsai@Veritas.COM (Cary Tsai) writes:
>
>Hi there:
>
>I know speeding is not the right thing to do, but I don't think guys
>who got speeding tickets (once a while) are the bad guys.
>
>My brother is visiting me, he and my dad got some speeding tickets
>(all for business trips). So I like to buy them a radar dector as a gift
>to him. I know that the speeding ticket is mailed with the picture taken
>by the radar in Taiwan. I saw the ad of 'passport 3200' claiming that 
>it can detect the ka wideband radar (such as photo radar, and staller).
>
>Is the police dept. (or any institution) using the photo radar in
>the taiwan's highway? Is this device, the radar dector can detect the ka band,
>going to reduce the speeding tickets in Taiwan? Does any one out there
>have (or know) the gadget can beat the photo radar? 

The traffic police in Taiwan did use radars.  However, I havn't heard any
of my families, relatives, or friends who was caught for speeding.  I think
the reason might be that there is no road empty enough for the radar to
be used effectively. :-)  The gadget such as radar detecotrs would just be 
another decoration in a car.
From: linhoo@cs.uq.oz.au (Hu Lin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: 99% will support Taiwan Independence
Date: 29 Jul 92 01:53:13 GMT
Reply-To: linhoo@cs.uq.oz.au

In <1992Jul27.034837.14490@medsys.rn.com> bbs@medsys.rn.com (Public BBS System) writes:

>In article <l6r46vINNnsl@pollux.usc.edu> mcyang@pollux.usc.edu (Bien-Chao Iunn) writes:
>>
>>By the way, Mr. Joe Wang, why do you always avoid answering the question
>>about the claim of Mr. Lin Rong-San, a KMT Central Standing COmmittee
>>member, that 99% of Taiwanese will support independence if there is no
>>military threat from Chia ?
If you have any logic knowledge of high school level, you should know that 

	false assumption implies any thing.

If there is no gravity, you TIner might possibly like to independent from the
earth. right? 

>No doubt I belong to that 1 % category.

>Chou1

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: ccc@ee.nthu.edu.tw (Chi-chao Chao)
Subject: Our Olympic Baseball Team vs US Team (Was Re: Bad News) 
Keywords: Baseball
Organization: National Tsing Hua University (Hsinchu, Taiwan, R.O.C.)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 10:29:31 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.071606.25761%onghiok@ling.nthu.edu.tw> onghiok@ling.nthu.edu.tw (H.Samual Wang (035)715131-4398) writes:
>hankwong@ocf.berkeley.edu (Henry Y. Wong) writes:
>> Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
>> Keywords: Baseball
>> 
>> Just heard we lost to USA 10-9.  Can anybody confirm??
>This piece of information is correct.  Actually I think the guys
>are doing OK, only losing one point to the US. US was the champion
>in Seoul Olympics.  This time the baseball is an official item, and
>we can expect that the US will select a good team for the medal.
>I will be happy if the Taiwan baseball team can win a bronze medal,
>which is possible, but the boys have to fight real hard.
>S.W.

Well, this year's US team is not as good as the '88 team (which had Jim Abbot (sp?) 
and many other good players.)  According to the news, after the game with US, 
our team's coaches admitted that the major mistakes they made were overestimating 
US team's strength and so not letting our best pitcher KuoLee Chien-Fu enter the 
game until the 8th inning.  Note that KuoLee allowed no hits and gave three strike-
outs in two innings of the game with US and allowed only three hits in nine innings
of the game with Puerto Rico.

Though this year our olympic team's whole pitching power is not comparable to that
of '84 and '88 teams, (only KuoLee Chien-Fu and Lin Chao-Huang are good enough),
its batting is very very impressive.  (Anyone who had follow the radio coverage of 
the games closely would have no doubt about this.)
I think our team will have a fairly good chance to beat US in the finals if two 
meet again.

--
Chi-chao Chao
ccc@ee.nthu.edu.tw
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: std_hashiguc@hg.uleth.ca
Subject: Re: Fortune cookies, sushis, eggrolls etc.
Reply-To: std_hashiguc@hg.uleth.ca
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 08:54:07 GMT

About Fortune Cookies, I heard they were invented(?) in California.
		
					Masayo
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: kzumy@watnow.waterloo.edu (Kazuo Uezumi)
Subject: Re: Zen Story (8)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 04:24:40 GMT

In article <BrwIsK.J8M@acsu.buffalo.edu> chuang@acsu.buffalo.edu (E-Ren Chuang) writes:
>>>	"I lost my keys, I am looking for my keys."
>>>
>>>	"I'll help you. Do you remember where about you lost you keys?"
>>>	The friend said.
>>>
>>>	"I lost it in my house."
>>>
>>>	"Then why are you looking for the keys here on the street?"
>>>
>>>	"Oh well, don't you think that here is brighter?" 
>>
>
>An article in the latest Central Daily News are reporting the fever of
>jin4-zhuo4 (still sit) in Taiwan. A lot of people go to famouse temple, 
>or famous master to learn it. Some ones go to the temple which has 
>some celebrities as its members because  they think this temple is
>"brighter". They are blonde, aren't they? Please check the Bible
>Romans 2:15, then you might know what the meanings of the "house" and
>"key".
>
>Eren Chuang.

	Sit-zen is regarded as one of the most useful method to clear
	one's mind. Sakyamuni(563-483BC) sat under a bondhidruma for 
	six years to attain his enlightenment and became buddha. Da-
	mol master(the father of zenism, regarded as the first zen
	master) sat-zen in Shau4-lin2 temple for 9 years and gained
	his enlightenment as well. I personally think ti is very useful
	to learn how to sit-zen.