HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: On the eve of Bill's (not so) Excellent Adventure
Date: 27 Jan 93 20:33:58 GMT
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA

In article <0c-srya@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
>>Yeah, good thing we got that evil John Kennedy out of the way.
>
>Yeah, got his brother too.  Too bad we're one bullet short of a solution 
>to the kennedy problem.

John, I have to thank you and other Right Wing extremists for putting
RKBA in jeopardy by giving the gun banners ammunition.  Nice job, Ace!

>>What?  He was an NRA member?  Ooops...
>
>yep and I'm a member of HCI.  If you think I am a member because I support
>what they do, you are a fool.

Ah, a touch of comedy at last!

     don
From: bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:36:27 GMT
Subject: Re: ACK! Don't Do This In Mass.! (Was: A new solution! (Was: Re: Dressed for Rape))
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group
From: vincent@cad.gatech.edu (Vincent Fox)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: 43 Times more likely?
Date: 20 Jan 1993 23:05:15 -0500
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology, CAE/CAD Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: cae.cad.gatech.edu

In <C14sI1.636@matilda.vut.edu.au> db@matilda.vut.edu.au (David Bowman ) writes:
>There is no denying that merely challenging with a gun
>will reduce violence in some cases. But anecdotal evidence
>does not convince me. Logic does. It follows that if
>you let everyone in a society have free access to guns there
>will be a big problem, unless the people are educated, there
>are no major economic divisions and the majority of people hold
>sound moral vales. Unfortunately there are few places in the world
>where this is the case. And if there were such a place, the
>people would not need guns or want them.

Yep, the familiar "we just want to suspend your rights until societal
perfection is achieved. We'll give them back once you are all acting
like we want you to, really we will." Strange how every temporary
government act becomes permanent. Income tax was just needed to pay
for a war. Of course after the war was over, why should we reduce
our revenue inflow says Congress.....

I would say welcome back Dave, but actually I don't miss you.
Logic can't convince you, nothing can.

From: post@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (David Post)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:20:06 GMT
Subject: Re: Virginia's proposed gun-a-month law
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns

In talk.politics.guns, dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton) writes:

 >In article <8110313@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> post@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (David
 >Post) writes:
 >
 >   When are they going to fix the drivers licensing system such that you need
 >   to show residency?
 >
 >I hope everyone realizes that this is a red herring in Virginia.
 >
 >We have an instant check system here.  Unless I am badly mistaken, it
 >checks residency as well as for felony convictions.  The driver's
 >license bunkum is just that.

Dave and everyone else... I did not mean for it to be a red herring.  I
thought that anyone could get a drivers licence in VA and that false
drivers licenses were being used to:

1. establish a false residency

2. establish a false identity

3. purchase firearms and remove them from the state


If this is not the case, I apoligize.

By the way, how is the instant background check working?

David Post  davep@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com  hplabs!hpfcla!post
Newsgroups: talk.politics.medicine,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: APA and homosexuality,AIDS
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 11:54:05 GMT

In article <C112yt.MLv@umassd.edu> pmsc13sg@UMASSD.EDU writes:

}I do not know the APA arguments against homosexuality. You wrote a book on a 
}close topic. Do you know? The proof, as I stated a while back, may lie in 
}philosophy, not psychology. Humans are biologically heterosexual. Our emotions 
}should be consistent with this. If I felt like a kangaroo, went hopping about 
}and looked for my pouch, you could objectively claim i was insane.

And that you should be admitted to a mental hospital to be cured of this
mental illness?  Even if you didn't consent?  You would be held legally
incompetent, after all.  What's objective about this?


Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Francois Marie Arouet Voltaire
Newsgroups: talk.politics.medicine
From: pmsc13sg@UMASSD.EDU (Stephen Grossman)
Subject: Re: AIDS, homosexuality
Reply-To: pmsc13sg@UMASSD.EDU
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:18:10 GMT

In article <1jh4c6INNrud@lynx.unm.edu>, bhjelle@carina.unm.edu writes:

So it is likely that HIV strains exist that
>either fail to cause AIDS or take forever to do so.

SG 	This group is taking up more of my precious time than i anticipated but 
I hope that people think long and hard about the meaning of the above. 
________________________________________________________________________________
	"In that world, you'll be able to rise in the morning with the spirit
you had known in your childhood: that spirit of eagerness, adventure and cer-
tainty which comes from dealing with a rational universe."
                                                              AYN RAND
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Grossman <PMSC13SG@UMASSD.EDU>
================================================================================
From: mcg2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Marc Gabriel)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.medicine
Subject: New listserv group - LymeNet
Date: 22 Jan 93 05:41:45 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

Introducing...

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*                               LymeNet                                      *
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However, as the number of cases rise, doctors on the front lines are
discovering that LD is more serious that previously suspected, requiring longer
treatment therapies and more complex combinations of medicines.  The battle
lines have been drawn.

And the battles continue at LD conferences, and in the various State
legislatures where insurance companies, terrified at the high cost of LD, are
attempting to short change patients.  Estimates show that the average cost of
treatment for chronic LD patients ranges from $60,000 to $100,000 per patient.

MAILING LIST:
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research news and political events, we introduce the Lyme Disease Electronic
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Please send problem reports to mcg2@Lehigh.EDU.
-- 
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
             Marc C. Gabriel '93    -  U.C. Box 545  -
               (215) 882-0138        Lehigh University
              mcg2@Lehigh.EDU       Bethlehem, PA 18015
                Compu$erve: >internet:mcg2@Lehigh.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: talk.politics.medicine
From: wc4209@writer.yorku.ca (Irene Berkovich)
Subject: Re: Canadian healthcare system
Organization: Computer Assisted Writing Centre, York University, Toronto, Canada
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 04:28:53 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.005156.21613@news.columbia.edu> gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna Watson) writes:
>>
>>The per capita cost is somewhat cheaper while providing universal 
>>coverage. This is supposed to rebut the idea that it would be too 
>>expensive to provide universal coverage.
>
>The secret is amortization across a VERY large population and you know
>what the statistical population looks like: a bell curve.  You can set
>your premiums according to projected demand and what the doctors demand
>from your fee schedule (we have the same AMA/CMA-oriented monopoly as
>the U.S. and they get what they want).

  You don't know what you are talking about.  In Canada, the
provincial governments set the fee schedule.  If you don't like the
fee schedule it's too bad, because it is illegal (under the Canada
Heaalth Act) for a physician to "extra bill" above the government set
rates.  In the province of Ontario the yearly pay increases have
averaged 0.5-1.0% per year for the last six years.  In addition, most
of the provinces have imposed fee caps on doctors.  Doctors who bill
above $450,000 per year in Ontario are paid only $0.33 on the dollar
for all billings above 450K.  This has resulted in many specialists
cutting back their work schedules so that they will not work in excess
of the cap.  It iow takes much longer to see a specialist.

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Gary L. Dare
>> gld@columbia.EDU 			GO  Winnipeg Jets  GO!!!
>> gld@cunixc.BITNET			Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley


Newsgroups: talk.politics.medicine
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: AIDS, homosexuality
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 11:33:05 GMT

In article <1jh4c6INNrud@lynx.unm.edu> bhjelle@carina.unm.edu writes:
}No one has taken up Duesberg on his challenge because it would
}be totally unethical to do so. You do not give someone AIDS
}just because they claim to be stupid enough to accept that fate
}on a dare.

Why is it unethical?  And they wouldn't be giving him AIDS, he would (assuming
both the HIV-AIDS hypothesis and certain probability that he would contract
the syndrome).

}Duesberg could, on his own, obtain blood from an AIDS patient and
}inject it into himself, or he could obtain HTLV-IIIb culture
}supernatent and inject himself with it. He doesn't do so because
}he is quite aware, deep inside, that HIV causes AIDS.

Easier claimed than shown.  Either cite evidence to support this or admit
that you're a gnostic.

However,
}even if he failed to contract AIDS it would not prove a thing.
}There already are long-term HIV "survivors" as well as a cluster
}of people who received HIV-tainted blood at the same time
}years ago who maintain normal CD4 counts and are healthy
}(in Australia). So it is likely that HIV strains exist that
}either fail to cause AIDS or take forever to do so.

It would tend to support the claim that HIV doesn't cause AIDS all the time.
It wouldn't prove that HIV can't cause AIDS, however.

Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Francois Marie Arouet Voltaire
Newsgroups: talk.politics.medicine,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: esther@verdix.com (Esther Lumsdon)
Subject: Re: Canadian healthcare system
Organization: Verdix Corp
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 21:29:07 GMT

How does the Canadian insurance and health care delivery system work
for medical services which are not delivered by doctors, or in a
hospital setting?   Things like crutches, wheelchairs, orthotic
braces, and prosthetics (artificial limbs and other body parts which
are not surgically attached)?  Are those part of the mandated insurance
package, or available only through private insurance?

What about the services of physical therapists?
-- 
-- Esther Lumsdon, not speaking for Verdix.   esther@verdix.com
Q: How many user support people does it take to change a light bulb?
A: We have an exact copy of the light bulb here and it seems to be
   working fine.  Can you tell me what kind of system you have?  
Newsgroups: talk.politics.medicine,sci.skeptic
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: AIDS, homosexuality
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 11:34:38 GMT

In article <C118B6.B2C@dcs.ed.ac.uk> pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley) writes:
}Quoting starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr) in article <1993Jan15.104018.17647@genie.slhs.udel.edu>:
}>In article <1993Jan14.154056.10452@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
}>}Would you volunteer to receive one injection of HIV+ blood?
}>
}>Duesberg will, on the condition that Gallo, Fauci, et al. drop the HIV-AIDS
}>hypothesis if he doesn't get AIDS afterwards.
}
}...knowing that these people cannot consistently take up this offer,
}since it seems well established that HIV doesn't inevitably lead to
}AIDS.

True.

Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Francois Marie Arouet Voltaire
From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.medicine
Subject: Re: Robert Bourassa
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:56:15 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

[reply to mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM]
 
>Of course it should be noted that this expensive experimental procedure
>was being developed in the US and not Canada.
 
Remember that there are only a tenth as many of them as there are of us.
At least in my field (neurology) they pull their weight just fine.

David Nye
nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.medicine
From: pmsc13sg@UMASSD.EDU (Stephen Grossman)
Subject: AIDS, homosexuality, APA
Reply-To: pmsc13sg@UMASSD.EDU
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:13:42 GMT

"You're not really someone else." [Rolling Stones]

"Reality is sneakin' up on you. It's gonna get you wherever you go." [Johnny 
Winter]

"We've been trying to get high without having to pay" [Marianne Faithfull

"I swear there ain't no heaven and i pray there ain't no hell" [Laura Nyro]

"All i need is a shoeshine and a smile."  [_New York Times_]

Good luck, everybody, you're going to need it.

Be kind to your subconscious and your subconscious will be kind to you.

Where have all the hippies gone?
Long time passing...

Subjectivism-head up your ass, checking out your bellybutton, playing with your 
pud.

When people coughed at a poetry reading, I didn't. I must be ignorant.
________________________________________________________________________________
	"In that world, you'll be able to rise in the morning with the spirit
you had known in your childhood: that spirit of eagerness, adventure and cer-
tainty which comes from dealing with a rational universe."
                                                              AYN RAND
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Grossman <PMSC13SG@UMASSD.EDU>
================================================================================
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 07:40:44 EST
From: <DGS4@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.medicine
Subject: Re: Robert Bourassa
 <1993Jan23.080607.1962@news.acns.nwu.edu> <6007@catnip.berkeley.ca.us>
 <1993Jan24.222521.29146@news.columbia.edu> <90639@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM>

In article <90639@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM>, mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM
(Mark Wilson) says:
>
>In <1993Jan24.222521.29146@news.columbia.edu> gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (GaryL
>Dare) writes:
>|"Ici Canada This Week" on PBS, a show of CTV (largest private English
>|network in Canada) newsclips covered the story last week; apparently,
>|Boo-Boo has a very rare and odd form of skin cancer whose experimental
>|treatment by an international research team at NCI involving thoracic
>|surgery techniques not common to the usual cancer specialists (the
>|cancer is on his chest wall and "roots" downward into his torso) plus
>|an experimental drug which sounds a little like "interferon", i.e.,
>|the federalist hope of Quebec is also a guinea pig for Planet Earth.
>|Thus, Bourassa's case turns out not to be that of a wealthy person
>|crossing the US-Canada border to avoid the mythical medical queues.
>
>Of course it should be noted that this expensive experimental procedure
>was being developed in the US and not Canada.

It should also be noted that it is being developed in the U.S. using public
monies, not as a result of private investment.  I've said before that I am
quite willing to believe that the U.S. has a faster growth rate in medical
technology than some of the systems with national health insurance (though
there is little hard evidence on this point).

Advocates of the private system, however, would have to convince me that
this is due to the nature of our private system, not the vast amount the
government spends on such research, to convince me that NHI would harm
technological growth.
These words and thoughts are my own. * I am not bound to swear
**      **      **       **          * allegiance to the word of any
  **  **  **  **  **  **             * master. Where the storm carries
    **      **      **               * me, I put into port and make
D. Shea, PSU                         * myself at home.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.medicine
From: swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Scott Wood - EVENSONG)
Subject: Address needed
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:18:04 GMT

I am looking for a phone number or an address for the American Medical
Association.  Any help is appreciated.

swood

-- 
 All Month  Rabbit and Crow are legal to hunt all month in Michigan
  Current   Michigan Canada Goose special late season still open
      (Southern Michigan Game Management unit only w/stamp)
         <<<<<<  Only nine months until bow season!!! >>>>>>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.medicine
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Robert Bourassa
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: Deep Space Nine (DS9)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 01:56:10 GMT

mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson) writes:
>gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>|Boo-Boo has a very rare and odd form of skin cancer whose experimental
>|treatment by an international research team at NCI involving thoracic
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>|surgery techniques not common to the usual cancer specialists (the
>
>Of course it should be noted that this expensive experimental procedure
>was being developed in the US and not Canada.

Of course ... just as bone marrow transplant that saved Sen. Paul
Tsongas was developed in Canada.  I guess you guys owed us one ...
(-;

[In either case, isn't it all material to how each country does
health insurance (which is the usual bone of contention ...)?]

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@columbia.EDU 			GO  Winnipeg Jets  GO!!!
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley
From: tcox@ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu (Tony Cox - (415)926-3105)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.medicine
Subject: Re: Statement of President Clinton on Health Care Reform Task Force
Date: 26 Jan 93 13:56:24 -0800
Organization: SSRL, Stanford Synchrotron Radiation Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu

jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jennifer S Broekman), writes:-

>In article <C1H6AK.2In@umassd.edu> pmsc13sg@UMASSD.EDU writes:
>>
>>SG	Yeah, that's right. The government should steal money from those who 
>>have it and give it to those who don't. Of course, this can be done with due 
>>process and in non-violent offices by people with briefcases and university 
>>degrees so its not theft (with the implicit threat of a policeman's gun should
>>someone desire not to pay for the welfare state) but social policy."Hey Lefty!
>>Hit that guy with your fist and take his money.Yeah, tell 'em we're liberating
>>his wallet. Har! Har! Yeah, we'll buy Joe some cocaine. Yeah, we're stealing 
>>your money to help a friend. You're not gonna be selfish and refuse to help 
>>Joe, are you? Hit 'em again, Lefty."
>
>May you be faced with the choice between buying food and buying penicillin,
>despite having worked since age 13.

   I second that.

   Lets hope that we all retain the right to decide if we should buy
   food or penicillin after this silly health care "debate" has
   run its course.

Tony Cox, Stanford, CA
Xref: sparky talk.politics.medicine:672 alt.politics.homosexuality:10209
From: esm@june.che.utexas.edu (Edward Scott Meadows)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.medicine,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: APA and homosexuality,AIDS
Date: 24 Jan 93 19:35:00 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.medicine
Organization: UT Department of Chemical Engineering

>SG	If you sewed an elephant's penis on your head, a zebra's asshole on 
>your knee, and a vagina inside your asshole, what would you be?! 

I think it time to add to the kill file...

-- 
Edward S. Meadows
Department of Chemical Engineering
University of Texas
Austin TX 78721-1062
Newsgroups: talk.politics.medicine
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: AIDS, homosexuality
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 09:52:04 GMT

In article <1jpkc2INN2dl@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU> drayer-rebecca@yale.edu (Rebecca Drayer) writes:
}In article <1993Jan22.112836.16611@genie.slhs.udel.edu> starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr) writes:
}>
}>He would have killed himself, not Gallo, Fauci, et al.  They ought to have
}>the courage of their convictions.
}
}They do.  Their convictions are that the HIV virus causes AIDS. 
}Therefore, they aren't willing to take up this little challenge,

This doesn't follow; it's a non-sequitur.


Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Francois Marie Arouet Voltaire
Newsgroups: talk.politics.medicine
From: ez012344@chip.ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.medicine
Subject: Re: German Health Insurance "System" in 1/23 NYT
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:26:05 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

RE: German health system.
Did the article mention future funding problems? When I was "home" eralier this
month, that was getting some media play. The gov't is worried about the future of
the system.

Dan
deherrin@ucdavis.edu
Xref: sparky talk.politics.medicine:703 talk.politics.drugs:8260 sci.med:24478