HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jim.wray@cutting.hou.tx.us (Jim Wray)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: .17 Rem
Date: 23 Jul 92 00:42:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: cutting.4165.78.uupcb
Organization: The Cutting Edge - Houston, TX - 713-466-1525

I'm getting interested in .17 Rem, both from target shooting and varmit
shooting perspectives. Does anybody out there in gun-net-land have any
first hand experience with this caliber that they would like to share?
How about strong opinions based on personal prejudices? I'm interested
in how you used this caliber, what kinds of loads were used, bore
fouling/cleaning considerations, ranges shots were taken and all that
good stuff. Any replies greatly appreciated.....
---
 . OLX 2.2 . When I come back.... no more Mr. Nice Guy!      A. Hitler
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Metal Detectors (Was Re: Ricochets)
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:38:09 GMT
Organization: Computing Center, North Carolina State University

In article <9207262133.AA01515@gtephx.com> forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:
# ...
#I believe the walk-through detectors use magnetic fields: metals which
#can be magnatized will be detected whereas aluminums will not.   ...

  I have a brass business-card case which sets off the detector every
time.  If I'm not carrying much metal that alone will make the
difference (i.e. all I have to do is take it out and then I "pass".)

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
From: DCS4@psuvm.psu.edu (Dave Shaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Seeking help to ID odd German signal pistol...
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:15:51 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

I'm looking for some help/advice on an unusual item I picked up this
summer at a yard sale.

It is not a firearm in the strictest sense, but I suspect this may be
the best group to find someone who might know more about it.

The device appears to be a mini flare gun. It is very small, the size
of a derringer, perhaps, and fires .22 blank ammo. It would work just
fine as a single shot .22 blank gun, like a starter's pistol, for
instance.

But here's where it gets more interesting. The inside of its short
barrel is threaded, and it comes with a short extension that screws
into the end of the barrel and looks kind of like the silencer on a
handgun from a spy movie, only shorter. The extension is only about an
inch long and very smooth, like a short length of shotgun barrel. The
inside diameter of the extension is about half an inch.

The previous owner said that when the gun was new, he had a variety of
"charges" that could be dropped into the barrel extension. He would
load the .22 blank and the charge, point the gun up in the air, and
pull the trigger. Apparently the firing of the .22 blank both ignited
the charge, so to speak, and expelled it out of the barrel. He said it
would shoot 40 or 50 feet in the air and go off with a bang. He said
there were even different color flares for the gun.

Now, here's the catch -- there are no flares left -- and he has no
idea where to get them, as the shop where the gun was purchased closed
ten years ago. Nevertheless, I found this little thing intriguing, so
I bought it. Besides, he was virtually giving it away, as he couldn't
actually demonstrate it.

A couple of questions:

1) If I had flares for this thing, would it be legal? Or is there
anything *illegal* about it?

2) Has anybody ever seen anything like this? What are they actually
used for?

3) Does anyone know of a source for the flares?

A couple of additional clues:

The upper portion of the gun and firing mechanism is made of cast
metal of some sort, the lower portion (grip, frame, and trigger guard)
is black plastic. The gun was made in Germany, or at least it says so
on the right side of the frame.

There is more information on the left side. There is a sort of a sun
graphic with the letters "FB" in the center followed by the stylized
word "Record" and smaller "Cal. 6MM". Further back on that side there
is a round symbol with "PTB 113" in the middle and the words "WEINBERG
u. SIGNAL PISTOL" around the circle. "PTB 113" also appears on the top
of the frame.

So what is it? Anybody know more?                - Dave
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M1 Garand/M1A history & differences?
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:33:57 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <9207210938.AA02403@jupiter.ame.arizona.edu>, raymond@jupiter.ame.arizona.edu (Raymond Man) writes:
# #The Garand was also used in Nam.  As you may have observed, when
# #the Garand fires its last round it makes a distinctive "t-ting"
# #sound as it ejects the clip.  Victor Charlie observed this and ...
# 
# I have heard of the "t-ting" sound problem when the clip fallen
# on freeze ground in WWII, probably at the time of the Battle of
# the Bulge. However, I cannot imagine a VC can hear that good in
# a jungle.
# 
# The US Army were already buying M16 in the hundreds of thousands in 
# 1958 - 1961, so I guess very few VC had the good fortune to run into
# an M1.
# 
# Could that just be a rehash of the old WWII legend?

M14s were commonly used in Vietnam in the early days -- if M1 Garands
were used, it would have been either the sniper models, or rifles
given to ARVN.  (I shudder to think of 5' soldiers firing and carrying
Garands).

-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
From: andy@sail.stanford.edu (Andy Freeman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Air Weapons and the Olympics
Date: 29 Jul 92 11:51:59 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.

In article <1992Jul28.211552.4518@wam.umd.edu> you write:
#All of the shooting sports are held at the Camp de Tir Olimpic (Mollet
#del Valles).  Seating is unlimited (I guess it's a field).  Does anyone
#know if the triplecast stuff is showing any of the shooting competition?

The short answer is "no".

The long answer is that I sent for an info packet and responded with a
letter pointing out that they weren't covering shooting events, so I
wouldn't be buying.  I got a nice phone call from a salesdroid asking
me if I wanted to subscribe.  Said droid knew of my letter and
"understood" when I said that I'd subscribe iff they covered shooting
events.

-andy
-- 
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
From: bweaver@quack.sac.ca.us (Brian Weaver)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Sig P220 vs. Glock 21
Date: 22 Jul 92 11:41:06 GMT
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.

callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:

#far less critical of what you feed it than any other auto (including the
#Glock, from what I've read and heard--my personal experience with a Glock
#was that it jammed something awful, but I'm willing to attribute that to
#its being a dirty range gun. Never mind the fact that the range SIG P226
#was in similar shape, and didn't fail once... ;-) And personally, I prefer
#the hammer and being able to choose between SA and DA. And the ergonomics
#of the SIG...the Glock, fine a pistol as it is (yes, I said it was a fine
#pistol) just cannot compare to the ergonomics of the SIG. It also can't
#compare in the accuracy catagory...


 I dont agree with your last sentence. The glock is damn accurate. 
 At least I can get under 2 inch groups at 25 yards with the Glock
 22 in .40 S&W. Thats pretty accurate to me. 
-- 
Brian Weaver
Internet:      bweaver@quack.sac.ca.us
Packet Radio:  KD6CFA@N0ARY.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA
From: gt9989a@prism.gatech.edu (John Martin Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm Information
Date: 31 Jul 92 12:57:44 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


one that you like is shooting as many as possible.  You don't have to rent
them, just act friendly to the guy shooting next to you at a range and he'll
probably offer to let you pop a few rounds.

John

-- 
John Martin Chapman
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt9989a
Internet: gt9989a@prism.gatech.edu
From: uk09365@nx06.mik.uky.edu (robert i kesten)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: National Shooting Schools
Date: 30 Jul 92 21:47:33 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

[related to the subject line, so I kept it]

Is anyone familiar with the gun-smith training program
at Northern Kentucky University?  I know it sounds 
ignorant of a Kentuckian to be asking this on the net;
but I don't get up to the greater-Cincinatti area very often.

Robert K.
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: British gun laws circa 1960
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:33:19 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

prichard@devon.larc.nasa.gov writes:


#not a t.p.g. question, but an informational one;

#I have a book by an English dude who sailed around the world sometime
#around 1960.  at one point, he mentions checking his Webley .45 since
#the upcoming port had a bad reputation.  

#1) would this handgun (presumably a revolver) been legal to posess in
#   the British isles, and
#2) might this an American cartridge such as .45 Colt or .45 ACP?  .45
#   seems a bit big for an old British revolver.


The .45 Welby was from the 1870s.   It was a stubby little blackpowder
centerfire round a little shorter than the .45 ACP, but much weaker, 
being inferior even to the .44 Welby in ballistics.

The nominal specs were a 230 gr slug at 550 fps.

The .455 Welby revolver round was used by the British Army in the 1890s.
The specs were hotter than the older round: a 265 gr slug at 700 fps for
blackpowder, and ~750 fps in the American smokeless version up into the
1930s.  It was also known as the .455 Colt.
  
The Welby Co. made quite a few revolvers, so it could be an entirely
different round also.  The .450 Adams could be fired through .455 
Welby revolvers.


Jim Del Vecchio
From: gisie@wam.umd.edu (Dr. Death)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Concealed Carry
Date: 24 Jul 92 03:19:01 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

I have a few avid shooting friends and each one of them respects the
local laws EXCEPT for the fact that they both carry either a
concealed firearm with them or a partially concealed firearm in their
car.  They are not paranoid but would rather run the risk of getting
in trouble for carry a loaded firearm rather than getting killed in
a mugging, etc.  Now, after reading several gun magazines for several
years, have come to conclude that although they always state "for
those of you with concealed carry permits..." they actually are hinting
that many people carry illegally.

My question is:

	Do you carry without a permit?  Is it worth the risk of 
getting caught carrying a concealed weapon while getting a traffic
ticket?  One of my friends keeps his auto pistol on his front seat
of his car so if he is pulled over he wont have it concealed.

I am not sure that these guys are not doing the right thing,
and this will cause them more problems than what its worth.

Any input on why/why not you carry is greatl appreciated.

Doc
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Death    gisie@wam.umd.edu
How can you tell when a lawyer is lying?  His lips are moving.
______________________________________________________________

[MODERATOR:  Your Humble Moderator points out that it is unclear
how representative a set of responses will come in, given that
this is a public forum without opportunity for anonymous posts.
Many of our readers won't express anything here that they would
not feel comfortable saying on their home telephone to the local
police dispatcher.   Hmm.   Maybe there's a lesson in this too...]
From: reb@amc.com (Bob Brunjes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glass bedding orthodoxy
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:33:50 GMT
Organization: Applied Microsystems, Redmond, WA

In article <1992Jul22.205121.918@u.washington.edu> toby@milton.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw) writes:
#I recently finished glass bedding my Remington Model 7 in .223
#with hopes of producing a more portable coyote rifle than my
#PSS.  In the process, I found myself wondering why the "how-to"
#articles on glass bedding always admonish against recoil lug
#contact except on the rear face; no contact is supposed to 
#occur between the recoil lug and the sides, bottom, or front
#of the mortise.  I have two problems with the "back-of-the-
#lug-only" concept.  First, what difference could it make if
#the recoil lug were completely fixed on all sides by bedding
#compound?  I actually have a rifle bedded this way (by
#someone else) and it shoots just fine (sub-0.5 MOA).  Second,
#on a cylindrical action like the Rem, what stops the action
#from rotating due to torque produced upon firing?  The tang
#area is pretty far away and not really shaped well to resist
#this torque.  If the sides of the lug were bedded, it would be
#the moral equivalent of a flat-bottom action, as far as I
#can tell.
#
#I guess the best way to solve the problem is benchrest-style --
#leave off the release agent and glue the action into the stock.
#My only glue-in is by far the most accurate rifle I've ever had,
#but on a factory action it's hard to get to the trigger pins
#on a glue-in.  Comments/answers?
#
This is only another set of data points, but when I bedded 5
or 6 Remington 788s (another cylindrical action, for those who
aren't familiar) in the late 60s/early 70s, the sources available
to me advised that only contact with the bottom of the recoil lug
had a deleterious on accuracy.

This (with no bottom contact, but with front, rear, and side
contact) is how I bedded these rifles, all in 6mm Rem, and they 
_all_ shot sub .75 MOA.  My wife and I still have two of these
rifles, in southpaw and northpaw(?) form, and mine seems to 
shoot very nearly .25 MOA.

I certainly don't think you're out of line questioning your
information sources.

#Toby Bradshaw


Bob Brunjes		Applied Microsystems Corp
			Redmond, WA
			reb@amc.com
From: selikow@odie.ee.wits.ac.za (Anthony Selikow)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What is Bore/Gauge ???
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:34:05 GMT
Organization: Wits Electrical Engineering (Novell Users).

In article <1992Jul22.023238.4603@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> 
gunter@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Gunter Ahrendt) writes:

#Maybe an obvious answer for the experts, but not for a novice...

#What exactly is 16 Gauge in inches or cm diameter?
#Better still if you could tell me the formula to work it out?

#:)
#Thanks

As I understand it, the gauge of a shotgun is defined as : the number of 
perfectly spherical pure lead balls from one (1) pound of lead such that 
the diameter of one (1) ball is the diameter of the  shotgun ie. the chamber.  

Thus the formula for the chamber (in S.I. units ie. metric) is :

n(4/3 pi r^3) = Volume of n balls
              = Mass / Relative Density
              = 0.45359x10^6 / 11.37
Therefore
           r  = Third Root of [9523.89 / n]
        Diam  = 2r
              = 42.4 / Third Root of n (mm)
or            = 42.4 / n ^ (1/3)

16 Ga. = 16.8 mm

This is fairly difficult to do in text format but in english : The diameter 
(in millimeters) is equal to 42.4 divided by the third root of the gauge 
number.

The above has not been validated by anyone other than myself, so I hope it is
correct!
 
         *         *     Selikow@odie.ee.wits.ac.za
        ***       **     Department of Electrical Engineering
       *****     ***     University of the Witwatersrand
      *******   *******  Johannesburg, South Africa.
      ANTHONY   SELIKOW
From: burens@4ccvw70.scg.hac.com (Mark Burens)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Looking for Info on .380's and dealers
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:38:54 GMT
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA


In article <59284@mimsy.umd.edu> googs@gilligan.rtp.dg.com (Joe Gugliemino) writes:
#
#I've been thinking about buying a pistol for concealed carry/home
#defense and am leaning towards a .380 as a good compromise between a
#number of factors, including concealability, power, and magazine capacity.
#I have seen a lot of .380's advertised as backup weapons, so I don't
#feel too off-base about making this choice, as opposed to selecting a
#.22 or .25 popgun.

##Stuff deleted##

Joe,

   Whatever you do, I highly advise against buying the Davis Industries
.380 auto. My sister bought one because it was inexpensive. Well, she
got what she paid for. I took her out target shooting one weekend and
every other shot the gun would jam. It wedged a spent casing down the
barrel once, there was plenty of felt recoil and I found it to be
somewhat inaccurate. 

                                      Just my opinion.
From: rhoten@a.cs.okstate.edu (rhoten r p)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: CLAYS powder for light loads
Date: 21 Jul 92 23:33:22 GMT

I like to practice with my .308 match rifle in an indoor
50 foot range with squibb loads of around 5 grains of Unique
and lead bullets for the M1 carbine.  However, Unique is
fairly dirty.  I recently saw an ad for CLAYS powder (from
Hodgdon) that claims it is very clean burning.  Of course, 
loading data is available for full loads, but not very,
very light ones.  Does anyone know anything about
this powder?

r. p. rhoten
From: tarl@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AVOIDING GETTING MISTAKENLY SHOT
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:42:06 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.


In article <1992Jul29.015300.1827@athena.mit.edu>, sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Rifleman) writes:
# Of course, if you had an unregistered one sealed behind a wall panel,
# it might go unnoticed.  Sigh.  Yet another reason for weapons caching.

Unless you buy it on the black market, you local cops will know about it
and look until they find it. THey probably can't put you on the rack, but
they can and will trash your place until they find it. Remember those cute 
little flimsys you had to fill out when you bought your handgun? Well, the
state police has (against the law) been accumulating these onto a computer
database, producing effectively a per-owner firearms list in this state.
-- 
         Tarl Neustaedter	tarl@sw.stratus.com
         Marlboro, Mass.	Stratus Computer
Disclaimer: My employer is not responsible for my opinions.
From: holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. ALF in spe))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: European Gun Magazines - Second Edition
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:38:01 GMT
Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA

Here are the addenda for the second edition of the list of European
Gun magazines.  Thanks to Jonathan Spencer for the information about
British magazines.  I've yet to hear about Romanic and Scandinavian
countries.  Anybody know some gun magazines there?

In order not to waste too much bandwidth, only the magazines not listed
in the latest edition are included.  The full list, however, can be
grabbed via anon FTP from our local FTP server ftp.vmars.tuwien.ac.at
(128.130.39.16).  Look into the directory /pub/misc/guns.  There are
two versions of the file, a plain ASCII file and a compressed one.
The files are called European_Gun_Magazines.*, where * is 'txt' or 'Z'.
If you encounter any problems receiving the files or if you aren't able
to use the FTP, drop me a note.

Now here are the addenda:


EUROPEAN GUN MAGAZINES  --  Second Edition, 92-07-20

DISCLAIMER:  I don't garantee the completeness, correctness or validity
  of the information included herein.  If you find any data no longer
  valid or want another magazine included, please send me mail.  I'll
  post changed versions of this list to the rec.guns newsgroup.


Name............:  Guns Review
Country/Language:  England / (British) English
# issues/year...:  12 (monthly)
Main interests..:  Rifles, handguns, reloading, blackpowder, historical
                   weapons, collectors items
ISSN number.....:  0017-5692
Publisher.......:  Ravenhill Publishing Co Ltd, Standard House,
                   Bonhill St, London EC2A 4DA, England
Distributor addr:  Seymour, Windsor House, 1270 London Rd,
                   Norbury SW16 4DH, England
Dist. phone.....:  +44 679 1899 [voice]
Sub.price/yr[*].:  D: BPD 18, F/S: BPD 20 (USD 40), Eu/A: BPD 23,
                   AA/A: BPD 38, Others/A: BPD 33 (USD 66)

 

Name............:  Target Gun
Country/Language:  England / (British) English
# issues/year...:  12 (monthly)
Main interests..:  Personal protection, sport shooting, handguns
ISSN number.....:  0143-8751
Publisher.......:  Peterson Publishings Ltd.
Distributor addr:  Comag Magazine Marketing, Tavistock Rd
                   West Drayton, Middlesex, UB7 QE, England
Dist. phone.....:  +44 905 795564 [voice], +44 905 795905 [fax]
Sub.price/yr[*].:  D: BPD 20, Eire: BPD 26, F/S: BPD 26 (USD 52),
                   F/A: BPD 47 (USD 92)
 

[*] Price for an 1 year subscription;
    Codes: AA=Australasia, D=domestic, Eu=Europe, F=foreign, O=overseas
           /S=surface mail, /A=air mail

-- 
| Holger Reusch                             |
| Technical University of Vienna, Austria <-+--- No kangaroos here,
| Dept. for Real-Time Systems               |    sorry!
| holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at                 |
From: syoung@pecanpi.UUCP (Stan Young)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Poll
Date: 25 Jul 92 22:02:33 GMT
Organization: Pecan Pi, Doraville, Georgia


In article <92206.145624TTC103@psuvm.psu.edu> TTC103@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
#handgun: FN P-90
#rifle  : HK G-11
#
#If only one gun:  One of those 16 inchers off USS Iowa
#
#	[MODERATOR:  Doesn't it have to be over 18inches for ATF to
#	 consider it a real rifle ... ?  Errr ... could be interesting
#	 trying to convince a jury of the difference... :-) ]

Pat, if that's all they'd be worried about, it would be worth while to 
pay the $5 short barrel tax.  Actually, a 5 incher would suit my needs....:-)


-- 
Stan Young                                {emory, slammer}!pecanpi!syoung
From: egolub@cs.umd.edu (Evan Golub)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: .22 Conversion for a Colt 45
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:29:48 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742


    I have a nice little automatic handgun, a Colt 45, which I would
like to buy a .22 conversion kit for.  I have not been able to track
down a dealer who has these.  Does anyone out there have any idea as
to where I can find one?


					-Evan-