HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jane@soave.swdc.stratus.com (Jane Beckman)
Newsgroups: ba.food
Subject: Re: Monterey to San Simeon: food & lodging
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:42:54 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA

>>>I live in Massachusetts and I'll be travelling in the Monterey and San Simeon
>>>area of California during the first week in April.  Can anyone recommend some
>>>good restaurants in that area?  I'd like to know about any types of
>>>restaurants: seafood and ethnic (including Californian cuisine); expensive or
>>>cheap.  I'd also like some recommendations of places to stay in this area.
>>Down the coast from there, there is Ventana Inn and the Post Ranch Inn (not
I might observe that neither of these are *close* to either
Monterey or San Simeon.  It's a half-hour drive to Big Sur
from Monterey (if you speed like me: I learned to drive on
Hiway 1, and can do Monterey to Cambria in less than 2 hours,
allowing for rental car passing).  We won't go into proximity
to San Simeon.  

Warning: do NOT try eating at any of the roadside restaurants
in the heart of Big Sur.  You know, at places like Fernwood,
etc.  I haven't tried a one that wasn't overpriced and
mediocre to awful.  And don't even contemplate jostling elbows
with the inhabitants of twelve tour buses at Nepenthe, which
used to be pretty good until they got overly popular...

Mr. Sushi, one block up from the Monterey Bay Aquarium, is
great for cheap sushi, if you actually eat raw fish.  My
all-time favorite Thai restaurant, Beau Thai, is right across
the street from the aquarium, upstairs.  Very reasonably
priced, too.  Sly McFly's, farther down the street, is good
and has fun decor.  (I miss Eli McFly's in Cupertino, though!)

I grew up in Cambria, visit often,  and can recommend a few places. 
Cambria is 7 miles south of San Simeon.  Bear with me if I
can't remember names---it's the problem with a place too
familiar.  Robin's is good (though not as good as when it was
the Grey Fox).  Moustache Pete's is Italian, and very good as
well, though a bit pricey for Italian food.  The coffee house
in the Old Village, next to the Bank of America, has good
coffee drinks and divine cakes, pastry, etc.  I can't recall
the name of the Mexican restaurant in the Old Village, but
it's definitely one of the best!  (It's run by the widow of
someone I went to school with...)  There are several more
places whose names I can't recall, like the place down by
Cambria Hardware, next door to The Sooty Goose, that has a
placard up on Main, a Georgian lady holding a sign.  Great
ribs!  I'm sorry if I seem bad with names, but it's a case of
trying to recall things that are so familiar you never think
about them...

Although, as a Stratus employee, I am dying to ask what one of
my cohorts from the "home office" is doing in Monterey and San
Simeon...



--
  Jilara   [jane@swdc.stratus.com]

"Every now and then, a big rock falls out of the sky, and everyone has 
a *very bad* day."  --from the PBS "Dinosaurs" special.
Newsgroups: ba.food
From: sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund)
Subject: Re: OK, where's the Greek food?
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 17:34:14 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.020631.27949@netcom.com> bob@netcom.com (Bob Becker) writes:
>In article <vcep5ek@zola.esd.sgi.com> cook@bebop.esd.sgi.com (Doug Cook) writes:
>>I have yet to find a Greek restaurant in the South Bay. There 
>
_warning_ in San Jose, on Bascom between Fruitdael & Hamilton is Zorba's -
DON't BOTHER to try it out

>This is a little out of the area, but I had lunch at a small Greek
>restaurant in Capitola on Saturday.  The name of the place is Lido.
>It had to be one of the best lunches I ever had.
>Has anybody else been there?  It's on the oceanfront in 
>Capitola's shopping area.  Sorry I can't be more descriptive, but
>I'm not that familiar with the area.
>

from hwy 17, go south on hwy 1 to Park and follow the signs to the beach

BTW the 'shopping area' in Capitola is also referred to as the Esplanade



-- 
________________       __        ________________   "They that can give up
\_________      \     /_ \      /      _________/  essential liberty to 
 \_________      \_____/  \____/      _________/  obtain temporary safety
  \___________________      __________________/  deserve neither liberty 
                     /______\                   nor safety."  
ALL disclaimers apply ....                           --Benjamin Franklin
From: tedh@cylink.COM (Ted Hadley)
Newsgroups: ba.food
Subject: Re: OK, where's the Greek food?
Date: 27 Jan 93 23:07:39 GMT
Organization: Cylink Corp.

In article <1993Jan27.155426.26436@netcom.com> schutt@netcom.com (David G. Schutt) writes:
>cook@bebop.esd.sgi.com (Doug Cook) writes:
>
>>I have yet to find a Greek restaurant in the South Bay. There 
>
>If owned by Greeks people qualifies:
>#3 Of course, Zorba's on Bascom Av, but nobody goes there anymore

Because it's _**TERRIBLE**_. Avoid it at all costs! (IMHO, of course).

Yiassou, also mentioned, has received reasonably good reviews in the Mercury
News and elsewhere. Note that in addition to Bascom in San Jose, there is one
in Cupertino on De Anza (?), near De Anza College (?).

Opa!

-- 
Ted A. Hadley  tedh@cylink.COM         "Credo qvia absvrdvm est" -- Tertullian
Cylink Corporation, 310 N. Mary Ave., Sunnyvale, CA 94086  USA    408-735-5847
All opinions expressed are my own, and probably not liked by my employer.
Newsgroups: ba.food
From: aahz@netcom.com (Mean Green Dancing Machine)
Subject: Re: Where do we Eat on the Peninsula??
Organization: Don't blame me, I voted for Bill 'n' Opus
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:18:15 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.025126.11877@leland.Stanford.EDU> shedevil@gw.home.vix.com (Anne P. Mitchell, J.D.) writes:
>Ya know..you wouldn't think my criteria for a place to eat would be that
>hard...it's only a 3-part test, after all:
>
>1) Has to be able to seat folks for dinner at about 10pm on a Friday
>night;
>2) Has to have a real menu and real waiting service; and
>3) Has to serve coffee and dessert.

Try Fresco's on El Camino, just south of Page Mill.
-- 
                         --- Aahz (the *other* Dan Bernstein)
                             @netcom.com 

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

Red shirts finish faster.
From: leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones)
Newsgroups: ba.food
Subject: Re: Where do we Eat on the Peninsula??
Date: 22 Jan 93 17:50:04 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: diver.asd.sgi.com

In article <42876@unix.SRI.COM> cole@unix.SRI.COM (Susan Cole) writes:
>>1) Has to be able to seat folks for dinner at about 10pm on a Friday
>>night;
>>
>>2) Has to have a real menu and real waiting service; and
>>
>>3) Has to serve coffee and dessert.
>>

Garden City (Stevens Creek and Saratoga in SJ).  The main restaurant
is open until 12:00 or 1:00.  They also have live music most nights.
It is, however, *not* cheap.

On the other hand, the Garden City coffee shop (from the lobby of the
main restaurant, walk into the gaming area, turn right and immediately
turn right again) is open 24 hours, and serves a reasonable subset of
the main restaurant's menu.  They have some monster desserts (including
a deep-dish apple pie to die for).  Downside: you have entered the 
smoke zone.  I suspect that I lose time from my life on a 1:1 ratio
with time I spend at Garden City :-(

Regards, Lee
Newsgroups: ba.food
From: tedh@cylink.COM (Ted Hadley)
Subject: Re: OK, where's the Greek food?
Organization: Cylink Corp.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 20:28:13 GMT

>In article <vcep5ek@zola.esd.sgi.com> cook@bebop.esd.sgi.com (Doug Cook) writes:
>I have yet to find a Greek restaurant in the South Bay. There 

A little ot of the Bay Area is Dinelli's Diner on Pescadero Road, Pescadero.
Excellent diner. Run by retired 4* Greek chef & his wife. They won't let you
leave until you're satisfied.

NB: They are only open from about April through November. When the weather is
poor in Pescadero, they travel elsewhere.



-- 
Ted A. Hadley  tedh@cylink.COM         "Credo qvia absvrdvm est" -- Tertullian
Cylink Corporation, 310 N. Mary Ave., Sunnyvale, CA 94086  USA    408-735-5847
All opinions expressed are my own, and probably not liked by my employer.
From: dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov (David Paul Encisco)
Newsgroups: ba.food
Subject: Barbecues for a wedding?
Date: 28 Jan 93 19:36:51 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center

Can someone suggest a good caterer who does barbecues?
Preferably someone who doesn't use artificial smoke
flavor!

Any leads would be much appreciated!
Thanks,
Dave
Newsgroups: ba.food
From: kudzu@netcom.com (Michael Sierchio)
Subject: Re: Gualala (was East Bay Breakfast...)
Summary: Timber Cove Inn Experience
Organization: True Love, and Home-Grown Tomatoes
Distribution: ba
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 01:12:19 GMT


In case anyone is tempted by a visit to Timber Cove, let the following
be a warning.  I have yet to receive any response or acknowledgement.




Michael Sierchio
1563 Solano Avenue, suite 123
Berkeley, CA 94707-2116
(510) 704-3543



Fred Monighetti
Timber Cove Inn
North Coast Highway
Jenner, CA 95450


Wed Dec 30 11:48:20 PST 1992




Dear Sir,

	I am writing regarding my recent stay at the Inn.  It had been
some years since my previous visit,  and while the place remains as
charming as ever,  the meal I had in the restaurant was, quite simply,
appallingly bad.  Because of your location it would be difficult to
dine elsewhere with ease and comfort,  so this is a serious problem.
	
	Let me first state that the service was quite fine,  and the problem
is clearly with the menu and the chef.  With approximately half the
seats occupied,  I cannot imagine how it would take an hour to deliver
our first course.  What is more,  what is termed "Oysters Rockefeller"
on the menu bears only a distant resemblance to the dish of that name,
whose recipe in the numerous cooking books I have at hand does not
include a slab of melted white cheese on top.  The oysters weren't
exactly first rate themselves, or else they suffered at the hands
of the cook.  Secondly, the "Chicken Kiev" was hard as a rock, and also
misinterpreted.  I do not seek to compare you to Chez Panisse,  but I
expect you to do better than any airline other than, say, Air France.
Thirty minutes after we ordered,  we were informed that the chef had
but one veal chop left,  and we were asked to accept some shrimp as
a substitute  -- this reflects well on the server,  who had tact and
negotiation skill,  but was another demerit for the chef.

	If you have a serious interest in improving,  I would be happy
to help by referring you to a consultant/chef who would be perfect for
reengineering your menu and kitchen,  and who can help you in hiring
a competent, professional chef.

	As it stands, it would be difficult to recommend a stay at the Inn
to a friend, or to consider a return visit.  


		Sincerely,


[signed]


-- 
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  Michael Sierchio                          1563 Solano Avenue, Suite 123 |
|  kudzu@netcom.com                                Berkeley, CA 94707-2116 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: chew@macross.csd.sgi.com (Stephen Chew)
Newsgroups: ba.food
Subject: Re: Affordable dining in *downtown* SF?
Date: 28 Jan 93 22:06:37 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

[ question about food near Geary and Mason ]

I just went to see Les Miserables last month and we 
ate at Fino's on Post near Mason I think.  It's 
in some hotel and across the street from Trader Vics.
The food was good and reasonably priced (< $25/person
with appetizers and 1  drink)

There are also many nice restaurants in the area.  You 
never say what expensive is so I list a few.

Las Caux - ~$30/person
Kuleto's - ~$30/person
Pan Pacific Grill - ~$40/person - this was a surprise.  good food
   great crab cakes.

For < $20 and "nice" I'm not sure.   California Pizza kitchen is
cheap.  There's also a cafeteria type sandwich/salad place that a lot
of theater goers go to (across from the Curan) that's pretty cheap
and I here it's good.
--
Stephen Chew (chew@csd.sgi.com) "Have a Happy New Year,
SGI Product Support              but please recycle the old one.  
				  	Green earth and all the rest."
Newsgroups: ba.food
From: jojo@leland.Stanford.EDU (Joanne Spetz)
Subject: Re: Comments on some South Bay area restaurants
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: ba
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 19:05:42 GMT

sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund) writes:
>>>what about    Rue De Paris  downtown San Jose?

Lee Jones and Irene Hensley provide nice reviews...

What's the price range?  Two people, with wine.

Joanne


-- 
Joanne Spetz				Department of Economics
jojo@leland.stanford.edu		Stanford University

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours."  -R.Bach
From: ribet@digel.berkeley.edu (Kenneth A. Ribet)
Newsgroups: ba.food
Subject: where to buy fresh soba?
Date: 27 Jan 93 00:20:19 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Math. Department
NNTP-Posting-Host: digel.berkeley.edu


The subject says most of it, if not all.  Where can one buy fresh
(uncooked) soba noodles to use in Japanese recipes?  I'm especially
interested in sources in the East Bay (Berkeley), but would be
happy to hear about other locations.

Thanks,
Ken Ribet
UC Berkeley Math Dept
From: fishkin@aludra.usc.edu (Stephanie Fishkin)
Newsgroups: ba.food
Subject: Re: Wedding Caterers
Date: 22 Jan 1993 09:07:18 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

owl@taligent.com () writes:

>I know this has been discussed before, but I didn't save the mail.

>I'm looking for recommendations for caterers for a wedding reception,
>hors d'oeuvres for about 150 people.  The reception will be in the
>Santa Cruz mountains.  Reasonably priced, good food is the goal--
>current quotes are astronomical.

Have you considered India Joze?  They have some really good
food, both meals and desserts!

>Thanks,
>owl@taligent.com

Stephanie
From: pstevens@Metaphor.COM (Paul Stevens)
Newsgroups: ba.food
Subject: Re: East Bay Breakfast...
Date: 22 Jan 93 15:36:13 GMT
Reply-To: pstevens@Metaphor.COM (Paul Stevens)
Distribution: ba
Organization: m4

I missed the start of this thread and I don't know the East Bay
that well but I do know of one breakfast place that I like.

The Buttercup in Oakland on College has consistently been good
for their scones and something called Huevos Kathmandu.  If
you imagine a normal Huevos Rancheros but substitute chutney
and mildly curry spiced beans for the Mexican beans and salsa
you're pretty close.
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

   Paul Stevens                        {apple|decwrl}!metaphor!pstevens
   Metaphor Computer Systems           pstevens@metaphor.com
   Mountain View, CA
From: cook@bebop.esd.sgi.com (Doug Cook)
Newsgroups: ba.food
Subject: Re: How do you clean a cheese grater? :)
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:23:13 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA


In article <1993Jan25.195548.363@netcom.com>, salsbury@netcom.com writes:
> Y'know, one of those box kind, with all the little rough edges? I'm sure
> there's got to be a better way than chewing up my sponges and hands (when I
> slip). I figured I'd ask here.... 
> 
> 	Perhaps a small brush/toothbrush?

No, you don't clean them at all. This lends a unique flavor to 
dishes you later make with the same cheese grater. When your
dinner party guests ask why your food tastes so good, you flash
them a smile and say, "Chef's secret!" with a raise of the eyebrows.

	-Doug

Doug Cook, cook@sgi.com		Software Engineer	 Silicon Graphics, Inc.

"...Men ought to be treated well or crushed, because they can avenge themselves
of lighter injuries, of more serious ones they cannot..."	-Machiavelli
Newsgroups: ba.food
From: curtz@lia.com (Curtz Lam)
Subject: Re: 3 Weeks in LA - HELP!
Reply-To: curtz@lia.com (Curtz Lam)
Organization: Litton/Integrated Automation, Alameda, California
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:17:17 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.004009.18199@news.csd.sgi.com> chew@macross.csd.sgi.com (Stephen Chew) writes:
>
>Also good and tres expensive is Spago's, Wolfgang Puck's original place.
>I haven't been there in a few years but I remember a fabulous meal down there.
>He also has a place in Santa Monica on main.  I've never been there and 
>can't remember the name but it's a wolfgang place.
>
>Oh well, I could go on but why?  That's it for now.
>
>--
>Stephen Chew (chew@csd.sgi.com) "Have a Happy New Year,
>SGI Product Support              but please recycle the old one.  
>				  	Green earth and all the rest."

	Spago is good but you need to make reservation well in advance
(2-3 weeks).  It's the place to go if you want a Hollywood experience.
I think his other place in Santa Monica is Chico on Main, I've never
been to it myself but heard good things about it.

								Curtz
-- 
Internet: curtz@lia.com
UUCP: ...!uunet!fernwood!lia!curtz
Phone: (510)-769-2445
Newsgroups: ba.food
From: schutt@netcom.com (David G. Schutt)
Subject: Re: Comments on some South Bay area restaurants
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: ba
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 05:11:58 GMT

sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund) writes:
>>1) Eight-Forty North First (SJ)
>>2) Sundance Mine Company (Palo Alto)
>>3) Emile's (SJ)
>>
>>Please send email to me at: christil@uts.amdahl.com.  This is for a
>>birthday dinner this Thursday (just two people).
>>
>what about   Gervais   on Park at Hedding (by the Rosecrucian) in
>	     Rue De Paris  downtown San Jose?
>	     one of the restaurants in the Fairmount?
Gervais - certainly qualifies as expensive. Food very ordinary--has
          been that way for years and years. We went there about a
          month ago, just to see if it's still bad to poor. Yes!
          The rack of lamb had no discernable flavor. It might as
          well been a piece of liver without flavor. If you have
          this much money to spend, go to Emile's instead.

Rue de Paris - We were there about six months ago. Their lamb dishes
          were good.

Adriatic in Saratoga - We went there last week (after seeing some
   postings here.) Not very good--not very Adriatic either. I was
   expecting some fish stews, but their seafood selections are very
   limited. I decided to have the pasta special (!), but it turned
   out that the waiter's description didn't match what I got.

>-- 
>________________       __        ________________   "They that can give up
>\_________      \     /_ \      /      _________/  essential liberty to 
> \_________      \_____/  \____/      _________/  obtain temporary safety
>  \___________________      __________________/  deserve neither liberty 
>                     /______\                   nor safety."  
>ALL disclaimers apply ....                           --Benjamin Franklin
>	  
Newsgroups: ba.food
From: ronnie@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Ronnie Findley)
Subject: Re:  OK, where's the Greek fod?
Organization: Lockheed Santa Cruz, CA.
Distribution: BA
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 15:09:22 GMT

The Cafe Lido in Capitola *is* wonderful, but it's Italian, not Greek, 
although they do have a few Greek items on the menu.  It's located on the 
Esplanade in Capitola, right next to the Capitola Theater.  I wouldn't want 
the original poster to think that the Lido is exclusively a Greek 
restaurant, hence the reason for this post.
From: georgew@hspice.portal.com (George Wu)
Newsgroups: ba.food
Subject: Re: Oakland Rockridge!
Date: 26 Jan 93 02:09:42 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Meta - Software

In article <1993Jan19.205218.14006@netcom.com> rchao@netcom.com (Robert Chao) writes:

>I eat in the Oakland Rockridge area all the time. I'd like to hear people's
>comments on:
>
>Hunan Garden, Eve's Hunan
>- I've never taken someone there and they didn't love it

     Is that one or two restaurants?  I ate at something along those names, but
I don't really remember what it was called.  That in itself says something.  I
do recall most of my Chinese friends found it too Americanized, but I don't
necessarily think that's an evil thing.  It wasn't outstanding, but it's better
than lots of nearby Berkeley Chinese.

							George


-- 
----
George J Wu,  Superior Maker of Technical Snafus,  georgew@metasw.com
Meta-Software,  1300 White Oaks Road,  Campbell, CA 95008,  (408) 369-5400
Never be the first to believe.  Never be the last to deceive.  ---  Chess
From: spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope)
Newsgroups: ba.food
Subject: Re: Hot Chocolate ( WAS:Looking For A Good Emulsifier)
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:56:02 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: U.C. Berkeley -- ERL
NNTP-Posting-Host: zion.berkeley.edu

Charles Haynes:

> Sigh. This is silly. The original questioner made it quite clear *why*
> he wanted to make his own. Less sugar, and substituting maltose. 
> Neither semi-sweet, nor mexican chocolate fills his needs.

A product called "Cadbury's Chocolate Break" might do the
trick.  Then it might not, but it's good stuff and worth a
try, if you can find it.

Steve
From: cjackson@adobe.com (Curtis Jackson)
Newsgroups: ba.food
Subject: Re: How do you clean a cheese grater? :)
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:51:45 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View

In article <1993Jan25.195548.363@netcom.com> salsbury@netcom.com (The Butterfly) writes:
}Y'know, one of those box kind, with all the little rough edges? I'm sure
}there's got to be a better way than chewing up my sponges and hands (when I
}slip). I figured I'd ask here.... 

Answer to "how do I clean X", where X is heat-safe, is "boiling water".
Most of what dishwashers do has nothing to do with soap, and everything
to do with very hot water.
-- 
Curtis Jackson			'91 Black Lab/Blue Heeler "Studley Doright"
cjackson@mv.us.adobe.com	'92 Collie/Golden "George"
DoD #721	KotB		'91 Hawk GT	'81 Maxim 650
"I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead." -- J. Buffett
Newsgroups: ba.food
From: hensley@melkor.enet.dec.com (Irene Hensley)
Subject: Re: Comments on some South Bay area restaurants
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: ba
Date: 21 JAN 93 12:16:53    


In article <1jkou6INN2q5@fido.asd.sgi.com>, leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones) writes...
>In article <1993Jan20.190903.5867@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com> sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund) writes:
>>
>>what about    Rue De Paris  downtown San Jose?
> 
>My wife and I really enjoyed it.  I got the fish and pretended I was eating
>healthy :-).  If you're into port, they claim to have a top-notch collection.
>I literally *forgot* to order it :-(, but plan to back and try again.
> 
>Regards, Lee

We tried Rue De Paris in the fall and rather enjoyed it.  It was a concert
night, and SJS ticket holders get a discount - something we had been reading on
tickies for ages but never tried before.  They were good about getting us out
on time without any rush.  We had a nice booth - very private altho it is a
smallish place.  The meal was good - I have forgotton everything but the
"yum...." and that we did try port after dinner, and it was reasonably priced
(there is a very decent selection).  I would suggest a reservation. 

It must have been pre-November3rd as the waiter had a no_on_something button on
(health ins. benefits & small business?). . . they say memory is the second
thing to go, and I can't remember the 1st...


	    /	
	 ^ /
	  //|	irene hensley		      / 408.748-6417
       / /  /  customer training	     / "hensley@melkor.enet.dec.com"
      / /  /  santa clara		    /
 	     digital equipment corporation /
From: jturley@netcom.com (Jim Turley)
Newsgroups: ba.food
Subject: Help finding Hakka and Crabs
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:31:12 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

I've been looking for a good Hakka style crab restaurant in the
South Bay Area....just like the ones you find in Hong Kong...
anyone have any ideas?