HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: durrant@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy,rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: T$R Newest "Product"
Keywords: TSR Greed Catalog
Date: 18 Dec 92 02:27:31 GMT
Organization: Purdue University

In article <1992Dec17.212606.15713@afterlife.ncsc.mil>, acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur C. Adams) writes:
> Believe it or not, folks, T$R's latest product is:
> CTRL-L inserted for people who can't stand greed:
> 
> A Hardbound version of the 1993 Catalog.
> You buy it. 
> Its not a freebie.
> You pay money for the catalog.
> It does include 32 pages of interviews and insights, but this sounds
> like the most colossal rip-off in history of the RPG industry, 
> with the possible exception of Dangerous Journeys.
> 
> Price is not indicated in the ad, which I saw on the inside front 
> cover of the new issue of Games magazine.
> -- 
> We need not fear those who do evil in the name of evil, but Heaven
> protect us from those who do evil in the name of good.
> Arthur C. Adams acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil            	<fnord>
> No, I'm not the Arthur Adams who draws comic books. Don't even ask.


Geeezzzzeeezzz!  This is so incredibly demented, money grubbing and sad--now
I know why I've abandoned T$R for White Wolf and FASA products!

Christine
From: slb3y@cc.usu.edu (Punk Rocketeer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: How do the readers want anonymous postings handled?
Date: 15 Dec 92 18:13:59 MDT
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Organization: Omega:  The Final Solution

In article <1992Dec15.142358.15845@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
cwatters@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Coyt D Watters) writes:
> What should become the policy of rec.games.frp.announce on anonymous postings?

     It looked OK here.  Some people value their privacy, and so long
as no one uses anonymity to cause problems, I don't mind.  The
anonymous message was about a character generator for Mythus that runs
under Windows.  Perhaps the poster didn't want a mailbox full of
"that's copyrighted stuff, you <censored>" messages.

     In short, I'd suggest reading the anonymous-hopeful messages
first, and if they don't look like some kind of bait, go for it.
-- 
Patrick S. Clark | "I'll be waiting up for Santa like I did last year
Email is life!   |  But my brother says he's already here."
Usual disclaimer | _Twisted Christmas_, "The Chimney Song"
This .sig brought to you in part by the Bob Rivers Comedy Corp.
From: johnson1@cs.uwp.edu (Christina Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Discussion on .advocacy (related to the .cyber RFD)
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:41:48 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Parkside
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

gm1116@albnyvms.bitnet wrote:
: 	As far as shadowrun in .cyber, I see no problem with the tech
: side, but 50 posts a day regarding magic questions?????  No thank you.
: Bring all the riggers and runners you wan't but kill the elves and mages
: before coming to .cyber please

well, one of the reasons SR is going to be seeing a lot of traffic in the
near future  is because of a little thing called "Grimoire II".  THis will
create a great deal of magic traffic.  You can't allow one aspect of a
game to be discussed, and not another.  Especcially when they will affect
each other.  The tech *does* affect the magic, and vice versa in
shadowrun.  and, just a thought...  if you really think there are going to
be "50 posts a day regarding magic"  hmm...  wasn't there talk of a
shadowrun group?  Again, *I* have no problems with having SR relegated to
.cyber.  But if it's going to be in cyber, than it going to be in cyber. 
all of it.  Not just one aspect of the game.  Not only is that rather on
the unfair side, but it doesn't make much sense.  No, magic does not
necissarily belong in a cyber world, but neither does it make sense to
dismember the continuity of a game.  what's the point of moving shadowrun
anywhere if the discussions regarding it will still be split among 3 or 4
groups?  no.  the whole thing goes to cyber, or the whole thing gets its
own group, or the whole thing stays exactly the way it is.  nothing else
makes any sense.
-- 
 _______________________________________________________________________
 -Brandywine-                                  
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine)
Subject: Re: AD&D bashing (was Re: Getting up my nose (Top 5 games))
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:48:52 GMT

In article <1gir5sINNq3o@life.ai.mit.edu> adair@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jonathan Edward Adair) writes:
>Well, when I first started gaming, I got TSR's D&D "Basic Set" (this was
>around '81).  It didn't have DICE!  I guess they ran out of those cheap
>plastic ones they'd toss in the box--the ones that chipped apart in
>a week.  What the set did have, though, was a page of "chits."  You
>would cut out these plastic-coated little pieces of paper and put them
>in cups.  When you needed a die roll, you dipped into the d4 cup,
>for examples.  It was disgusting.  How many other people got these
>sets?  I thought that was the low point of TSR quality until I
>saw "WG4".

Yeah, I got one of those sets, and the 'Expert Set' had those cheesy dice
that flaked/chipped away.  I got a set of Slime green Gamescience dice that
I still have with me (gads!  They are older than my dog! :)) that didn't.
The motivation for getting the Gamescience dice, of course, was the STUPID
IGNORANT chit system.  We got through 1 game session, then went straight
to the game store the next day and each got 'real' dice.

Though I did like 1st Edition Gamma World over Metamorphasis Alpha (yikes!
I am showing my age again... :) )

-- 
+-------------------------+-----------------+---------------------------------+
| Brent L. Irvine         | NE PER INGENIUM | The above personal opinions     |
| irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu | MEUM SED DEI    | can be yours too for only $50!  |
+-------------------------+-----------------+---------------------------------+
From: gal502@huxley.anu.edu.au (Graeme Lindsell)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: RuneQuest advocacy (Rebuttal)
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Date: 16 Dec 1992 07:11:09 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.36.75

In article <APPEL.92Dec7214812@soda.soda.Berkeley.EDU>,
appel@soda.Berkeley.EDU (Shannon D. Appel) wrote:
> It's perfectly easy for a gamemaster to control the rate of increase
> in RuneQuest - you're just not being very creative.  If you want fast
> advancement, you can give multiple checks if skills are used correctly
> multiple times.  Or, you could increase how many points you get from a
> check.  Or, you could allow lots of down time, for people to do
> research and training in.  There are a huge amount of possibilities.
> In a 'fast track' Runequest game, I saw beginning characters
> (initiates, I believe) rise to Runelords, and even a few Heroes in a
> mere two years (real time).

Sure, but you are modfying the rules in order to speed advancement. The
published rules give no options for changing the rate of increase: they
are actually rather strict about it. Lots of down time for training
is the only "official" method, so I think its what most GM's do in that
situation. I agree with your ideas, I only wish the published rules were 
a bit more  flexible about it. RQ doesn't really give the option of
"fast track" anywhere: it's 1 increase = +1d6, need at least a week to 
get it, etc.

> 
> Results are even MORE dramatic when you start off with really low
> level characters, as we did recently in a new RuneQuest game.  It's
> really quite amazing - after a mere ~2 months of play, WE DON'T RUN
> FROM COWS ANY MORE.  And we did at the start, I swear.
> 
> Shannon

 Well if your party maxes out at 25% combat skills, you better run from 
cows: a +3d6 damage modifier can really hurt. Especially if you don't have
any heal spells. Keep the enemies to small cats and poodles, or trollkin
if your feeling brave. Avoid people, and any of the published adventures
( ever noticed how tough most of them are? )

Graeme Lindsell a.k.a gal502@huxley.anu.edu.au
Research School of Chemistry,
Australian National University
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: cwatters@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Coyt D Watters)
Subject: Re: How do the readers want anonymous postings handled?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:35:33 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.132305.6258@lunatix.uucp> lmollett@lunatix.uucp (Laura Mollett) writes:
>
>I can't think of too many reasons, but mebbe the posters boss doesn't like
>them playing role-playing games or doesn't want them using the business 
>computer for games or something.  Who knows?  Really, seems to me like the
>point is, who cares?  If they have a reason to keep their name of it, let
>them.  Why should we take away the chance of seeing a good post by insisting
>it have a name on it?
>
>			Laura Mollett

The problem lies with liability in case there is a copyright problem.  We've
all gone through the "that's copywritten material!" flamefest.

An anonymous posting can not be reliably linked to a real person.  However,
my account can be tracked directly to me.  Yes, I am cwatters, and I do use
the host magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu, and I had to sign a form to do so.  I can
be located easily.  An anonymous posting can not be tracked so easily.

-Coyt



Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall)
Subject: Re: DJ
Organization: Boeing
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:40:09 GMT

zog@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Scott Allen Bauer) writes:
 >         But you need to remember that as a DM you can always
 > change things.  I have started preparing  my world up with the
 > usage of DJ and there is very little that I have not changed
 > slightly.  I changed the terms back to what everyone already knows
 > and understands.

Why spend good money on a game system when you end having to perform
a rewrite just to make it suitable? I'd rather buy a game that already 
has most of the details set up just the way I want, then fiddle with
some bits.       

 >         All in all,  I dont think there is many "good" GMS that dont
 > modify the system to suit both there world and needs.  If you dont like
 > the system see if it is usuable if you change some things around.

Sure, but are you going to purchase a defective product knowing that you
can fix it up? This game costs way too much money for everybody to pick up
a copy and make repairs. IMHO, yours is not a cost-effective philosophy.

Anyway, as long as it works for you...


-- 
 Bob Hall                   |  if [ -bs message ]; then
 Boeing Computer Services   |      mv message /compost/heap/$$
 root@chicken.ca.boeing.com |  fi
From: cn322@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas G Moser)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Dangerous Journeys (Feedback/Discussions)
Date: 15 Dec 1992 00:45:32 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


I had recently posted a similar message on the rec.games.frp.misc
board and was promptly told off.

Anyway,  I would like to hear some disscussion about the new
FRP system Dangerous Journeys (by Gary Gygax).  Most of the
feedback has been negative so far, but I want to hear exactly
why you like or dislike the thing.  Please be specific where
possible.

Thanks for your help
-- 
=================================================================
-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     ... the end
From: cn322@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas G Moser)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dangerous Journeys: OOOOOOPS!
Date: 16 Dec 92 03:16:25 GMT
Reply-To: cn322@po.cwru.edu (Thomas G Moser)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, I said:

>
>I had recently posted a similar message on the rec.games.frp.misc
>board and was promptly told off.

I should mention that I was told via private e-mail to cancel
and re-submit my message.  Sorry about the confusion.
-- 
=================================================================
-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     ... the end
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (RedSwordTarga)
Subject: Re: Dangerous Journeys (Feedback/Discussions)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:55:13 GMT

millerl@wharton.upenn.edu writes:

>At least EGG and GDW didn't go halfway, they didn't make a mediocre
>game, they made a completely unplayable game, even more ridiculously
>complex than C&S, Champions, and Rolemaster all combined.

Hehe. That about sums it up..Wow..that's that best summing up of the
DJ money pit that I've heard yet. 

Axly

********************************************************************************
*   Axly      *  "Is Axly tough? Yes. Talented? Yes. Brave? Oh, certainly.     *
* Red Sword   *   He is also erratic, irresponsible, accident-prone, and a     *
*   Targa     *   constant threat to public safety. The trick is to keep him   *
*             *   pointed in the right direction. "                            *
*             *         -Niki                                                  *
********************************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: lmollett@lunatix.uucp (Laura Mollett)
Subject: Re: How do the readers want anonymous postings handled?
Organization: Lexington Public Access Unix. -KY- (606) 255-9121
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:23:05 GMT

In article <1gm7bnINNocs@trigger.ksu.ksu.edu> camelsho@trigger.ksu.ksu.edu (   James A Seymour) writes:
>Forgive me, but why in the world would anybody want to 
>post to r.g.frp.announce anonymously?  Personally, I
>would not give much credance to something broadcast
>to the world by a nameless shadow.
>
>I really dont see any need for anymous posting on that group.
>
>         james seymour/camel/camelsho@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
>                       1-800-729-0730

I can't think of too many reasons, but mebbe the posters boss doesn't like
them playing role-playing games or doesn't want them using the business 
computer for games or something.  Who knows?  Really, seems to me like the
point is, who cares?  If they have a reason to keep their name of it, let
them.  Why should we take away the chance of seeing a good post by insisting
it have a name on it?

			Laura Mollett



Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy,rec.games.frp.misc
From: irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine)
Subject: Re: T$R Newest "Product"
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 01:23:54 GMT
Keywords: TSR Greed Catalog

In article <1992Dec17.212606.15713@afterlife.ncsc.mil> acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur C. Adams) writes:
>A Hardbound version of the 1993 Catalog.
>You buy it. 
>Its not a freebie.
>You pay money for the catalog.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!  All in the name of glorious
QUOTAS!  "What?  Do you mean were one product short for 1992...um...
the Pres. [who has never played a RPG in his/her life and finds them rather
childish...] will be mad...um....maybe we can.....PUBLISH OUR CATALOG!"

The thing that scares me is that a few non-dealer saps will actually 
buy it! 

-- 
+-------------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------+
| Brent L. Irvine         | For a mere $50 these personal  | I will be gone: |
| irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu | opinions can also be yours!    | 20 Dec - 4 Jan  |
+-------------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------+
Xref: sparky rec.games.frp.advocacy:3672 rec.games.frp.misc:10057
From: mjo@iao.ford.com (Mike O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy,rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: T$R Newest "Product"
Date: 18 Dec 1992 00:21:50 GMT
Organization: Not an official spokesperson for Ford Motor Company
Reply-To: "Mike O'Connor" <mjo@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost

In article <1992Dec17.212606.15713@afterlife.ncsc.mil>
acadams@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur C. Adams) writes:

:Believe it or not, folks, T$R's latest product is:
:A Hardbound version of the 1993 Catalog.

Isn't this an oxymoron?  Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzz...

:It does include 32 pages of interviews and insights, but this sounds
:like the most colossal rip-off in history of the RPG industry, 
:with the possible exception of Dangerous Journeys.

I think AD&D 2nd Edition wins out in terms of magnitude of rip-off.

						...Mike

-- 
 Michael J. O'Connor           |  Internet:  mjo@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com
 Ford Motor Company, OPEO      |  UUCP:      ...!{backbone}!fmsrl7!mjo
 20000 Rotunda, Bldg. 1-3001   |  Phone:     +1 (313) 248-1260
 Dearborn, MI  48121           |  Fax:       +1 (313) 323-6277
From: v121mhb5@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (D.O.G. of S.A.R.P.A.)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dangerous Journeys (Feedback/Discussions)
Date: 15 Dec 92 22:33:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <92349.223005IO11330@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, IO11330@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (the DM) writes...
>Well let me start off by saying that I have neither played Dangerous
>Journeys nor do I own any of the material.  However I have flipped
>through it a bit I I'd like to say the following:  I Love the Camapaign
>world!  Yes I know that sounds stupid, it's the earth after all but
>I think it makes for a great world.  All the players are familiar with
>it, but too familiar with it, plenty of stuff can be added easily (
>just grab the local encyclpedia Critanica or a good history book) you
>don't have to worry about buying gaming supplements because you can
>run down to the library.  I have played on our planet before using
>Rolemaster rules (which I now hate (IMO)) and had a blast orcs and
>goblins were only found on North and South america but these
>continents had just been colinzed, and the pope wanted these Pagans destroyed
>or coverted, what blast, anyway, I play AD&D and intend on running my
>next campaing using the world presented in book 3 (I think) of Dangerous
>Journeys , just my opinion........
> 
>                      Pat Ellis
>                             THE DM

	I just flipped through the 3rd DJ book at the shop, and while the
maps do look nice, I don't how good the source material really is (though
I admit I didn't buy the book).
	I'm starting up a Mythic Europe (tm) campaign using the Ars Magica
rules next semester.  Ars Magica encourages the use of historical fact, the
only difference is that the stories people told in medieval times turn out
to be true, more or less.  Thus you have Arcadia, as well as divine (that's
right, the church) and infernal realms, not to mention magic realms, which
is where the players, who are mostly mages, are centered.  So don't think 
that DJ is the only game that uses a universe which closely parralels
the real things.  Plus, Ars Magica is a much simpler, smoother system,
geared towards storytelling rather than dice rolling.  
	I knew I wasn't going to like Dangerous Journeys when I flipped
through the first rulebook and realized that there was a d100 table for
generating QUIRKS, for crying out loud.

						Jim Scannell
						Director of Gaming
					UB Strategists and Role-Players
From: tdunn@ecst.csuchico.edu (Stress Kitty)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Discussion on .advocacy (related to the .cyber RFD)
Keywords: shadowrun, cyber, newgroup
Date: 14 Dec 92 15:59:19 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu

Let's keep this "in house" for a while.  In other words, seeing as we're
going to be talking about which proposal, there is no need to air it for
the world to see, IMPO/

Anyhow, I have always been under the impression that, given then utter
murkiness and morass of ttrying to define cyberpunk, SR should be 
included.  No definitions of cyberpunk here (I have my own, and you
have  yours) but I feel that whatever the definition, the presence 
of magic and beasts/races of a mystical nature do not preclude SR being
welcomed into the fold.

Thus, in reply to Coyt's proposal, I say one group with both SR and any
non-magical cyber-games under it's umbrella.  As for the namespace issue,
I would think the topic better be served by saying that it is about cyber
gaming, so r.g.f.cyber.

If not, then I was intending to post to r.g.f.shadowrun about non-magical
cyber games anyhow, unless the final charter prohibits that.

-- 
"The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up!"
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: akuma@netcom.com (Steven E Barnes)
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Discussion on .advocacy (related to the .cyber RFD)
Keywords: shadowrun, cyber, newgroup
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:50:34 GMT


Oops, I was assuming that people were proposing a new group
for Shadowrun.  I would be quite happy having a group called
.cyber that excluded SR posts; unfortunatly, the SR people
would inevitably post messages there.

-steve
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: ratinox@kappa.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri)
Subject: Re: Shadowrun Discussion on .advocacy (related to the .cyber RFD)
X-Posting-Software: GNUS 3.14.1 [ NNTP-based News Reader for GNU Emacs ]
Reply-To: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
X-Signature-Virus-Protection: Version 1.51
X-Get-A-Clue: Have two, they're small.
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
	<1992Dec14.235034.7835@netcom.com>,<RATINOX.92Dec14203427@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu>
	<009652B4.CB43AF80@Msu.oscs.montana.edu>
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:28:18 GMT

>>>>> On Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:24:56 GMT, imeslsl@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
>>>>> (LEPRICAN~~~) said:

>There is a group that used to be Shadowrun-free, rec.games.cyber. Due to a
>variety of reasons, rec.games.cyber is now auto-moderated (ie, anything
>posted gets automatically approved).

Leprican> That's a joke...  anything I posted, (about anything!) just
Leprican> dissappeared.  The most popular idea, from what I see is to kill
Leprican> the automoderator.  anyway...

This is part of the discussion about the .cyber move. You can't just
unmoderate a group that's charter states it is moderated, not without a
full Usenet vote. That's what's going on.

--Rat
||||| | | | |  |  |  |   |   |    |    |    |   |   |  |  |  |  | | | | | |||||
Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat          ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
I'm the best there is at what I do.  Trouble is, what I do isn't very nice.