HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: william@kub.nl (William Verkooijen)
Subject: bike questions
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 07:14:07 GMT
Organization: KUB, The Netherlands


Hello,

I have some bike questions:

- When you have a road bike (with conventional frame geometry) and you
install a tri-clip-on-bar at an orginal race bar, usually you have to
adjust the distance between saddle and bar to achieve the easiest race
position. When having this done, the distance has become too small to ride
comfortable in the conventional position. What can be done to avoid
this situation?

- Which of the following options is recommendable for a tri-bike (and why?):

 (a) a real tri-bike with the steep angle frame
 (b) a conventional race bike adjusted with a tri-saddle post and a
 clip on tri-bar



Thanks,

William Verkooijen
E-mail: william@kub.nl
From: mvm@caesun6.harris-atd.com (Matt Mahoney)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon
Subject: Re: More ?'s (was Re: Donner Lake Triathlon)
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:11:23 GMT
Reply-To: mvm@epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney)
Organization: CAE Design Center, Harris Corp., Melbourne, Fl.

In article <5382@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> roat@rrc.chevron.com writes:
>Does anybody have any comments on the
>state of the organization - TriFed that is - good or bad?

If you want a national ranking or entry into the championships, then
only Tri-Fed races count.  But for most people, Tri-Fed only means
higher entry fees and no day-of-race registration.  No wonder about 80%
of the races in Florida are not Tri-Fed.

I guess they finally woke up.  In the last issue of Triathlon Times,
they announced that starting next year, the annual membership will drop
from $32 to $20, one day licenses from $12 to $5, and the one-day
license procedure will be streamlined.  We'll see.

--------------------------------        _\/_
Matt Mahoney, mvm@epg.harris.com       |(TV)|  Drug of the Nation
#include <disclaimer.h>                |____|
From: arands@zodiac.rutgers.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon
Subject: Re: The Standard Bike (aka flames!!!)
Date: 31 Jul 92 02:05:49 GMT
Organization: Rutgers University Computing Services

Oops.  Flame war started.  Sorry folks.


Suzanne Roats - Are you for or against these tri-toys?  Your posting was a bit
vague.

Rolf Arands
arands@zodiac.rutgers.edu

(Red alert!!!  Shields up!!!  Beam me to Triathlononius - NOW!!!)
From: roat@rrc.chevron.com (Suzanne Roat,Chevron,(510)242-5313)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon
Subject: Re: Triple Falls Tri
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:45:18 GMT
Reply-To: roat@rrc.chevron.com
Organization: Chevron, Richmond, California

In article 5094@ncsu.edu, ceclybur@unity.ncsu.edu (Clinton E. Clyburn) writes:
>Just wanted to report on a tri I did this weekend, the Hendersonville, NC Triple
>Falls Triathlon. Nestled in the NC mountains, the Dupont nature area made a beautiful >backdrop for the race. Unfortunately, the mountains also took a bite out of everyone's >legs on the bike.
>Kip Clyburn
>ceclybur@unity.ncsu.edu

Glad to see this race is still in business.  I did the very first one they had.  I think 1989 or 1990.  That year they started everybody individually at 3 second intervals for the swim.  I started 11th and ended up 2nd out of the water.  The one person ahead of me was way ahead.  On the bike going up the first hill to the first turn-around, I was directed off course by the course marshalls.  I ended up losing nearly 3 minutes.  Pissed but undaunted, I hammered the rest of the bike trying to make up the tim

e I lost and to catch Janet Thiel, my one nemesis that season (actually she never beat me because I always ran her down but she made the swim and bike interesting).  Heading out on the run, I was still about 2 minutes behind Janet.  I had to make up at least 1:30 to win because she started about 30 seconds behind me in the swim.  I ended up missing catching her by 25 seconds and won the race by 5 seconds.  By the time the race finished, everybody knew what had happened to me and were out in force to watch 

the finish cheering us both on.  My mother was also on hand for a rare visit so I was glad to give her something exciting to witness.

I loved the course.  Hilly bike rides suit me (good thing given where I live now) and I really enjoyed the trail run including the creek crossing.  That year we had a great time kidding one of our Greater Knoxville Triathlon Club members about how the water came up to her armpits while the rest of us got wet only to our knees.  Kay is a might short.

Anyway, I hope this race continues to occur.  It's a great one.

---
Suzanne Roat				Phone:	(510) 242-5313 Voice 
Chevron Research and Technology Company		(510) 242-4647 FAX
100 Chevron Way				Email:	roat@rrc.chevron.com
Richmond, CA  94802-0627

Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon
From: jpringle@den.mmc.com (James E. Pringle)
Subject: Farmers Branch Triathlon
Originator: jpringle@everest
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics, Denver
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:11:42 GMT


I heard a rumor last week that there might have been a drowning
at the "Farmers Branch Triathlon" held July 11 (or was it 12th)
in Farmers Branch, Texas.  Does anyone have any info on this?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon
From: brand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert W. Brand)
Subject: Wetsuits
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 13:50:27 GMT

I woke up Saturday morning and drove down to Lake Michigan.  It was 
probably about 9am when I walked out to Ohio St. beach, and I could 
see that there were about a dozen people standing around and/or swimming, 
but all of them clad in wetsuits.  I walked down to the water, put my 
hand in and said "shit."  I mean it was *cold*.   And that was at the 
beach where it's usually a little warmer than it is away.

Anyway, I walked back to my car (not even considering the possibility of
swimming), drove to a shop, and bought a new QR Longjohn.  Very nice - 
very out of my budget.  But, at least I'll not die in the race this 
coming weekend.  BTW, the shop said that mine was the sixth suit they'd sold
so far that day, and it was only 11am.


Now I have some new questions:


   - It took me longer than I thought it would to get out of the thing.
     I've heard about greasing the lower part of your legs with vasoline,
     but the QR says that vasoline will destroy the suit and void the
     warrenty.  They mention silicone based lubricant.  Can someone tell
     me exactly how it should be done?

   - Are the suits easier or harder to get off when you are wet?  I haven't
     swum in this one yet.  Should I definitely do this before this race?


P.S.
Hey Todd.  No way, man.

-- 
Bob Brand
From: raterink@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (keith raterink 283-4133)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon
Subject: Re: Big event in Cleveland?
Keywords: cleveland nationals
Date: 29 Jul 1992 16:04:40 GMT
Organization: McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Company

Vernon Schabert says:
>> I'm unfamiliar with the top athletes outside my own age group, so
>> perhaps other netters could provide suggestions on other race favorites.

I'll put in a plug for some local BAT members:

  Roger Wacker    M  30-34  (Fastest M amateur @ BLTS-Hou)
  Sally Taggart   F  25-29  (Fastest F amateur @ BLTS-Hou, Former World Champion)
  Janet Bonecki   F  25-29
  Brigid Kranz    F  25-29
  Ian Paddie      M  34-39
  Roger Price     M  Masters

***  Keith 'Bonk' Raterink,   Bay Area Triathletes (Tx)   (713)-283-4133  ***
     ............. _My_ ideas only, nobody else can claim them .......
 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon
From: brand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert W. Brand)
Subject: Re: bike questions
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:16:45 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.071407.7132@kub.nl> william@kub.nl (William Verkooijen) writes:
>
>Hello,
>
>I have some bike questions:
>
>- When you have a road bike (with conventional frame geometry) and you
>install a tri-clip-on-bar at an orginal race bar, usually you have to
>adjust the distance between saddle and bar to achieve the easiest race
>position. When having this done, the distance has become too small to ride
>comfortable in the conventional position. What can be done to avoid
>this situation?

Rather than move the seat around on the bike, I use more of the seat.
By pushing back and sitting on the back of the seat, you can get more
leverage to power up hills, ala MTB riding.  When riding the bars, I slide
up a little and sit towards the nose of the saddle.  This gives me the 
forward position that is nice for the bars.  It's more comfortable than
it sounds, and a lot lighter than seatpost adaptors.  If you have 
one of those long Flite saddles, I imagine its nicer, but I don't have 
one (yet) so it's not necessary.  You do lower your effective seat height a 
little when you slide forward, but it hasn't been a problem for me.


>
>- Which of the following options is recommendable for a tri-bike (and why?):
>
> (a) a real tri-bike with the steep angle frame
> (b) a conventional race bike adjusted with a tri-saddle post and a
> clip on tri-bar
>

I don't train as much as some people, but I do ride about five hours a week.
If I had to ride all of those hours on a steep angle, beat the hell out of
you, jam you into an aero position whether you like it or not, tri-bike, then 
I might not want to ride as much.  

Ideally, you might have both a road and tri-bike, and split your training up 
between them, but the road bike/tri setup is a nice compromise.   A more 
conventional bike is a ticket to ride with bicycle clubs also, which is great 
way to improve handling skills and knowledge of the sport. 

Well, that's just my .02.


-- 
Bob Brand
From: roat@rrc.chevron.com (Suzanne Roat,Chevron,(510)242-5313)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon
Subject: Re: Source of Wetsuits
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:44:10 GMT
Reply-To: roat@rrc.chevron.com
Organization: Chevron, Richmond, California

In article 294@hellgate.utah.edu, liebchen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Armin Liebchen) writes:
>
>Does anyone know of places where to buy wetsuits? I looked through the
>ads in the Triathlete, but it seems this item is not in fashion around
>this time of the year,
>
>Armin.


And Neoprene caps?  Charlie Lincoln insists that all triathletes wear them at
World's Toughest.  I have a pin head.  I need a small one.  Quintana Roo makes a
'one size fits all' cap that I could put two heads in.  It won't do at all.
---
Suzanne Roat				Phone:	(510) 242-5313 Voice 
Chevron Research and Technology Company		(510) 242-4647 FAX
100 Chevron Way				Email:	roat@rrc.chevron.com
Richmond, CA  94802-0627
From: jmo28514@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (James Michael Ockers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon
Subject: Re: Question about J-discs
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:56:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Brt3F0.GBv
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

klinich@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:


>P.S. How are these wheels able to be trued?

I've heard that they claim that there is no need to true the wheels because
the wheels are prestressed (by wrenching your wheel around like a toy to 
strain harden the spokes)  and then retrued and the spoke nipples loc-tite
shut. 

Actually, there was an interesting post a few months ago where an ingenious
fellow took the 3M shrink-fit window covering and cut it in a circle with a 
cutout for the hub and then used the tape and applied it to his wheel.  Best
thing is that it is VERY cheap and removable.  I plan to give it a try sometime
if you really just want to try it out I think it probably is the most logical
thing to do considering the price.

I also remember there were a few people that were completely horrified by the
suggestion.  

Jim Ockers
jmo28514@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
From: bk1a+@andrew.cmu.edu (Bryan Michael Kearney)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon
Subject: Wheelchair Racers
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:01:09 GMT
Organization: Junior, IM - MCS/CIT Track, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I am sorry if this is inappropriate for this list.

I am looking for anyone who happens to race in wheelchairs. I am
specifically in need of information concerning racing wheelchair wheels.
Any help would greatly be appreciated.


-- bk
From: tjensen@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (todd.r.jensen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon
Subject: Re: The Standard Bike (aka flames!!!)
Date: 31 Jul 92 14:04:28 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Jul30.220549.1@zodiac.rutgers.edu> arands@zodiac.rutgers.edu writes:
>Oops.  Flame war started.  Sorry folks.
>
>
>Suzanne Roats - Are you for or against these tri-toys?  Your posting was a bit
>vague.
>
>Rolf Arands
>arands@zodiac.rutgers.edu
>
>(Red alert!!!  Shields up!!!  Beam me to Triathlononius - NOW!!!)

I think it might be kind of interesting to have everyone on the same 
bike.  Just like the Little Indy 500 at the U of Indiana (refer to the
movie "Breaking Away") or one of those auto races where they put Indy,
Formula One, and NASCAR drivers in the same kind of car.  Of course,
even if the bikes were the same model and components, there would still
be differences - size of frame to match rider, quality of maintenence
(one rider regularly overhauls his hubs, the other lets the grease turn
into black goo), pressure in the tires, ect.

Personally, I'd rather see everyone use the equipment they want (including
making wetsuits legal no matter what the temp of the water is 8^) ).
For me, I think it's kind of funny to see how far some people will go
with their equipment, while others go fast no matter what they use.
Mike Pigg rode a Trek 2300 last year, not even the top of the line Trek
frame.  I personally have a standard road racing frame (steel), Scott DH
bars, a HED disk, and a radially-spoke front wheel.  My shifters are on the
down tube, along with my water bottles.  Some people say you lose seconds
reaching down to shift or drink, but I have learned to stay aero and maintain
a steady cadence even with one or both hands off of the bars so I don't think
I lose any time worth worrying about.  My bike splits are not usually too
far off the top times.  I spent about $1500 total on my bike 3 years ago,
and still feel competitive against the people who spent $1500 just on their
wheels.  As I'm sure Mike Pigg will tell you, trick equipment comes after
a good training plan and a strong mental will.

From what I see, a lot of people think putting something aero
on their bike will automatically make them faster, but there are trade offs
with everything.  A rear disk cuts through the air better, but it usually
weighs a bit more and is harder to accelerate.  Aerobars definately
help you go faster, but you lose some steering control.  Water bottles behind
your seat usually fall out and make you reach farther back, pressurized
water systems are hard to clean, ect...

Todd Jensen                                  o
AT&T Bell Labs             ___^o_    __o    <|\
(708) 979-1254                     _ \<_     \
tjensen@ihlpe.att.com             (_)/(_)    /
From: roat@rrc.chevron.com (Suzanne Roat,Chevron,(510)242-5313)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon
Subject: The Standard Bike (was Arm air foils...)
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:54:04 GMT
Reply-To: roat@rrc.chevron.com
Organization: Chevron, Richmond, California

In article 1@zodiac.rutgers.edu, arands@zodiac.rutgers.edu () writes:
>spesau writes...
>
>
>>One thing that Langford and another top triathlete (Dave Smit) had on
>>where foils developed by Profile that you put on your arms.  They
>>decrease in width for about 12 inches (look kind of like an
>>airplane wing) that are strapped to the biceps.  They are suppose
>>to be worth about 1.5-2 min in the 40 km.  Look for them in
>>Cleveland.
>
>
>I mean no offense to Shane, nor do I wish to start a traditionalist versus
>tri-geek flame war, but I think if we start using these types of devices, we
>are starting to lose the point of triathlon.  These devices ***to me*** would
>seem to be an excuse for inadequate triathlon training and conditioning.  I use
>aerobars, and that's it.  No other trick components.  And yet I still finish
>regularly in tri/biathlons and pure time trials (against USCF racers) with 
>bike splits in the top 5% overall.  No, I am not going to win the Tour de
>France next year, but I train and race on a bike very hard, and I feel that
>hard work shows.  

stuff deleted...

>Rolf Arands
>Department of Chemical and Biochemical Engineering
>Rutgers University
>
>arands@zodiac.rutgers.edu 

Oh lets get this thing really fired up.  How about standardizing the bike used in a 
triathlon?  It would cost say $500.  Everybody must use the exact same bike in their size.  No modifications could be made.  Under this scheme, we would all be competing on the same turf.  The harder you train, the faster you will go on the standard bike.  Every 3 years the bike gets updated and we all have to buy a new one.  I for one would vote for no disk wheels - to heavy anyway, aero bars, standard bike racking feature - no more goof balls taking up three spaces on the bike racks, and clipless pedals.

  And none of this armband wing garbage or helmets with tail fins on them or any other crap like that.  Just you, the standard bike, a bathing suit, bike shorts (optional), plain old shoes, and a plain old helmet.

What do the folks in ether land think of this idea?  Asbestos underwear on - flame away.

---
Suzanne Roat				Phone:	(510) 242-5313 Voice 
Chevron Research and Technology Company		(510) 242-4647 FAX
100 Chevron Way				Email:	roat@rrc.chevron.com
Richmond, CA  94802-0627

Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon,rec.sport.swimming
From: kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner)
Subject: More weird swimmer's races
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 15:43:00 GMT

I did the nth Annual Avon (NJ) Run-Swim-Run (~900yd soft beach run, ~400yd
ocean swim, ~700yd hard beach run) a few weeks back.  Can't describe the course
any more than that.  Race tactics are run hard, swim hard, run hard.  I was
about 6th into the water (210 finishers), about 17th out of the water
(those damned lifeguards again!), and 16th at the finish (11:31).  Somehow,
I managed to get 1st in 30-39 (contrast this to a recent 5k where I was 27th
out of >460, and 14th in 30-34!).  Last year I was 12th and 4th; go figure.  
I got passed by many childrens during the swim.  The winner (~10:25) is a
swimmer for Penn State.  My $15 entry got me a t-shirt, a nice big medal (hey,
I got my first multi-sport hardware only last year, so it's still a big deal
for me) and a $10 gift certificate at a local surf-type shop.  Note:  beach
running is HARD!

I also did the 14th Annual Ocean Grove (NJ) Biathlon (2mile run, ~200yd ocean
swim) this past Saturday.  The run varies from street to boardwalk to walkway
and back and forth, finishing on the boardwalk.  We then go down some stairs,
about 100yds on the beach, and into the surf.  Out about 75yds, across about
50yds, and back in, followed by the longest 15yds up the beach to the finish
gate.

Lou Zimmerman (15:07 for 5k last week) took everyone out, with Harold Nolan
(over 40) right behind.  I hit the mile mark at 5:15 (!!!) (hey, it was an
electronic clock they had, so it *must* be accurate) in about 13th place, and
the 2 mile mark at 10:26 (!!!) (I asked Lou whether he felt the course was
accurate, and he said he felt like he ran about 4:45 pace; we clocked him
at ~9:25).  Zimmerman was 1st into the water, Nolan was 2nd, and I was 10th
into the water.  The surf was really nasty going out and coming back in.  I
passed some people (hard to tell who or how many), and struggled out of the
water.  I raced someone to the line, and dove at the line.  Reading the paper
the next day, I determined that he and I were given the same time, so I
finished in a tie for 4th, and 1st in 30-39.  Lou finished 2nd, and Nolan was
14th.  Got a nice (little) trophy, a t-shirt, and 3 cans of Gatorade, all for
$12.

So far this season I've done a swim/bike, a swim/run, a run/swim/run, and now a
run/swim.  Unfortunately, I don't know of any more sprint-type races around
here that are geared towards swimmers, so it's back to being humiliated on the
bike in triathlons.  While it's fun coming out of the water at or near the
front, it can be depressing getting passed for the rest of the race...
Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon
From: brand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert W. Brand)
Subject: Re: "Waxing" a chain / Disc wheel covers
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:41:52 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.181548.20658@den.mmc.com> jpringle@den.mmc.com (James E. Pringle) writes:
>
>Could someone explain the advantages/disadvantages to "waxing" a chain as opposed to oiling it (I use "Tri-flow").  I realize that by using wax instead of oil, you won't get oil on everything that touches the chain.  I am more interested in performance.
>

I've heard this is not worth the trouble, and wrecks the chain faster.  The rec.bike FAQ
has more details.



>Also, I have seen wheel covers advertised in magazines and catalogs for around $50 (Stealth Uni Disc).  Has anyone had any experience with these covers? Do they offer any performance improvements (decreased drag?), or are they just a scam trying to cash in on the success of true disc wheels?
>

I ride with a cover, the Uni-Pro (magnesium hoops - 155g).  I don't think the covers
are a scam at all and some insist that they work as well if not better than a disc 
in most circumstances.  The discs advantage is a better surface for less air resistance.
The weight of the disc is a problem though, as it is hard to accelerate one coming off
of a turn or up a hill -- this is where the cover has an advantage.

As for an advantage, I don't know that it is a very large one.  My bike splits have
been faster since I got mine, but my training has increased 10 fold, so I'm not
quick to credit the cover.  I've heard about 1.5 minutes over 25 miles in good
conditions -- not a great advantage, compared to say, aerobars.


>I am only an average swimmer, so I am interested in any advantage I can get on the bike.
>
>Please email your comments to me.  
>
>Thanks,
>Jim
>
                              Bob

P.S.
The best way to get an advantage on the bike is to ride more miles and do more 
speed work.  Greasing a chain differently, or adding bullseye pulleys, or 
titanium stem bolts may be fun, but isn't going to get you ahead of the guy
in front of you.  I vote for hard work -- not that I don't have my share of
poser equipment, but the way I look at it, is that it makes me train harder, as 
it is embarassing to be passed by someone on a bike that has less, and fun
to pass the guys on the disc-dressed 5500's and Kestrels.


-- 
Bob Brand
Xref: sparky rec.sport.triathlon:985 misc.fitness:6291
From: gs7413@noah.sbc.com (Bert Soto)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon,misc.fitness
Subject: Swimming Equipment
Keywords: Goggles, etc...
Date: 30 Jul 92 12:30:26 GMT
Followup-To: rec.sport.triathlon
Organization: Southwestern Bell - Arkansas

I used to swim competitively in high school and remember getting   
catalogs from The Finals and Hind among others that sold all brands 
of high quality swimming gear (Arena, Hind, etc.).  I'm primarily 
looking for goggles other than Speedo's.

All I can find in my local shops are the Speedo's with the very thick
foam pads.  They suck.  Any help will be greatly appreciated.
-- 
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Bert Soto 				Southwestern Bell Telephone
Transmission Equipment Engineering        	    Little Rock, AR
(501)373-6459  	   peiges@ark.sbc.com  	        gs7413@noah.sbc.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.triathlon