From: gaillard@panix.com (Ed Gaillard)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Bullshit (was: *Any* kind of r.a.b. split, or at least a *serious*
Date: 25 Dec 92 00:52:09 GMT
Organization: Radio Free Hades

hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:

>Barbara Hlavin responded:

>>Hey, this goes with the territory.  One person's attempt at formality 
>>and courtesy will inevitably be interpreted by *some*one, *some*where 
>>as rudeness or indecisiveness.  There's no end to the ways we are 
>>capable of misinterpreting one another. 

>Ever read the Gettysburg Address?  

Yes.  Perhaps you could be so kind as to tell me why this isn't a
non-sequitur? 

>>People who engage in what passes for communication here have to 
>>understand that we, collectively, form a brand-new culture, one 
>>that has a life of its own.  Not everyone is comfortable with its 
>>manners and rituals as they've more or less evolved, just as not 
>>everyone in the world is comfortable eating with knives and forks,  
>>or with chopsticks; it's not Their Way.  But it's the way it is 
>>*here*.  

>Oh, bullshit.  Bullshit!  BULLSHIT!!  There's no brand-new culture!  There
>are no new rules for politeness and propriety!  What people like you have to
>understand is: This group is not some kind of shadow play, this is Real Life.
>You are talking to Real People.  People who can be irritated, have their
>feelings hurt, be pleased, made joyful, and made furious.  The same kind of
>humans that we've always been throughout history, except that now we have a
>quicker mode of communication.  So we're allowed to be ruder now that we've
>entered an age where one can communicate in three seconds rather than three
>months?  Bullshit.  So we can allow a public group to be controlled by
>whomever gets there first?  Bullshit.

Who do you think is "controlling" this group, exactly?  I was unaware
that it was moderated or censored.

>					I would venture a guess that everyone
>who reads this group knows something about books, and would probably be able
>to contribute something useful to this discussion, however stupid it might
>seem to some others in the group.  That's the purpose of this discussion, to
>get these elements out into the open.  Everyone who reads netnews who's
>interested in something connected to the vague title rec.arts.books should
>feel able to contribute.  Maybe this is too broad a definition for you.  If
>you want a cozy little enclave where select like minds can commune, it isn't
>here.  Go somewhere else.  This is a public forum.  
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Is any comment necessary here?

>Barbara, you and others have done better than I possibly could at
>illustrating the cliquish attitude among some contributors to r.a.b.  The
>hilarious thing is, the few of you have no idea that, in fact, you've been
>living in a dream world.  

Only a paragaph ago, this was Real Life!

>			You believe that you've been existing in some
>exalted state, in some walled-off duchy in which you can make your own rules
>about who's going to discuss what, and when, and how.  

You are missing the most basic fact about the net-world, which is:
Each participant in this group makes his own rules about what, when,
and how he will post.  Nobody makes rules about anyone else's
postings, except whether to read them or respond to them.

>Let me tell you this
>again, because it needs repeating:  This is the Real World!  There are many,
>many different people reading this group, and lots of different people who
>want to contribute, and who should *feel* as though they are able to
>contribute, even though they don't belong to some "private club".   If you
>raise a ruckus at their wanting to contribute, fine, be a jerk.  If you
>insist that there's this bizarre "divine right of r.a.b." that all newcomers
>have to acknowledge, you're full of shit.  Why is this so fucking hard to
>understand?  

In other words, *you* want to make rules about the discussions on
this group.  You also seem to have your own "rules about politeness
and propriety".

>Heather
>HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu

-ed g.
<gaillard@panix.com>
I have no clique, but my computer hums and buzzes.