HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: verma@pfeast.enet.dec.com (Virendra Verma)
Newsgroups: alt.hindu
Subject: Re: What is the Hindu faith ?
Date: 30 Dec 92 04:20:18 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Status: OR
Apparently-To: alt-hindu@Pa.dec.com
Originator: editor@rbhatnagar
Return-Path: <news@ryn.mro4.dec.com>


In article <BzzHyK.BK1@ucunix.san.uc.edu>, editor@rbhatnagar.csm.uc.edu (digest editor) writes...
> 
>I am unfamiliar with the Hindu faith. I'd appreciate a brief appraisal of
>Hinduism and how it differs from other religeons such as, say, Islam,
>Christianity and Sikhism.

	Hinduism is a way of life not a religion as perceived in the west.
	It is not organized. One doesn't need to go to temple. It recognizes
	all faiths. Man is divine by nature as opposed to sinner.

	There is no equivalent of religion in Sanskrit. The closest word
	is dharma which means to hold for existence. For example, fire
	cannot exist without heat, so heat is the dharma of fire. Dharma
	of air is pressure. That which keeps the human system together is
	'manava dharma', i.e., Hinduism.

	The highest ideal of Hinduism is to overcome the forces of nature,
	such as desire, emotions, ego, anger etc. This can be accomplished
	by complete surrender (samarpan) to the Divine which is seated deep into
	our Self. It is during samarpan that all actions become Divine
	actions, all desire Divine desire. This is called 'krtvyama karma',
	the duty as demanded by the Divine (not as demanded by some ethical
	scriptures).

	In truth, Man is not the doer of all actions. It is the nature in 
	man which does all the actions. These actions are lower actions because
	they are carried out with the influences of three gunas of nature.
	For this reason, man has no control over the fruits of actions.

	Overcoming the forces of nature means that Divine does all the work
	through the person who has attained such a state.

Hope that helps.

namaste,

-- Virendra Verma
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer:
   My employer is not responsible for my views. Read my views at your 
   own risk.
   ****
   tamso ma jyotir gamaha	   - [Lord] take me from darkness to light.
   shramam bina na kimapi saddhyam - Nothing gets accomplished witout work
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.hindu
From: forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu (Eric Forbis )
Subject: Arodhya opinion
Status: OR
Apparently-To: alt-hindu@uunet.uu.net
Originator: editor@rbhatnagar
Keywords: Arodhya Hindu Moslem massacre Rama
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 07:18:31 GMT
Return-Path: <news@news1.cis.umn.edu>

Opinion from outsider: extensive knowledge not claimed, non-flaming 
responses welcome. I realize that I have a somewhat biased opinion, but this 
isn't meant as flame bait.

I first became aware of the Moslem-Hindu friction in Arodhya while taking a 
college course on Buddhism. I'd been reading Buddhist and Hindu texts for 15 
years, had taken most of my religious beliefs from them, and loosely 
considered Hindu interests as my own. Having heard many times that Buddhism 
did not flourish in India, I was surprised to learn that it once had been a 
popular religion-- and shocked to learn how it had fallen in the massacres 
by the invading Moslems, who decreed death for these unbelievers. Millions 
were slaughtered, Hindu as well as Buddhist. Hindu and Buddhist religious 
sites were desecrated and claimed for the invaders.

That's all it takes for me. Moslems believe in living by the sword; let 
them die by the sword, by the fruits of their own philosophy. Tolerance is 
demanded by Hinduism, I know-- but it has been extended uncountable times, 
and rejected. Tolerance isn't a synonym for stupidity; if those it is being 
extended to do not reciprocate, then there's nothing to extend. Practically 
speaking, I wish that Hindus would respect their own ideas enough to insist 
that their own culture and historical sites be restored, and that they ask 
those Moslems who aren't able to extend tolerance for other's faiths to 
leave the country.

I'm glad to see Arodhya finally happening. I hope that as much energy is 
spent reconstructing the Sri Ramjanmabhumi Temple as has been expended 
in fighting, but I'm glad to see the conflict finally resolved-- did anyone 
have any doubts that it would end this way?

Regards, 

---------

Eric Forbis      forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu
From: loca@netcom.com (John Hoag)
Newsgroups: alt.hindu
Subject: Re: What is the Hindu faith ?
Date: 29 Dec 92 07:30:35 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Status: OR
Apparently-To: alt-hindu@ames.arc.nasa.gov
Originator: editor@rbhatnagar
Return-Path: <loca@netcom.com>

>To: alt-hindu
>From: martin@praxis.co.uk (Martin Croxford)
>Newsgroups: alt.hindu
>Subject: What is the Hindu faith ?
>Date: 23 Dec 92 10:14:53 GMT

>I am unfamiliar with the Hindu faith. I'd appreciate a brief appraisal of
>Hinduism and how it differs from other religeons such as, say, Islam,
>Christianity and Sikhism.

That's a pretty tall order, Martin.  ;-)   Hinduism is less a single
faith than a number of faiths, some of them very different from each
other.  I wouldn't claim to speak for anyone's understanding than my
own, but for what it's worth, here's how I put it in its simplest terms...

Hinduism is a Mystical religion.  That is, its basic concept of God is
that God is both immanent and transcendent.  Its concept is not, as you
would find in Catholicism, for instance, that God wholly transcends the
Universe yet is present within it, but rather that God *is* the Universe
-- their Identity is One, and the same -- yet God transcends the Universe
entirely, as well.  Westerners generally have a very bumpy ride trying to
get both of those ideas in their heads at the same time.

Christianity, Judaism and Islam all share essentially the same transcendent
God.  God made the Universe; He is God, the universe is the universe, and
even though He can be everywhere *in* it at the same time, He is not
*it*.  His identity and its identity have always been, and will always be,
different, separate and other.

There have been Christian, Jewish and Muslim Mystics, of course -- but
they invariably have a rather rough go of it in those religious contexts
-- getting burned at the stake, crucified, etc. for claiming that they
were God -- something that is blasphemy in those religions but the most
natural thing in the world for a Mystic to say.  The last Christian Mystic
I read was de Chardin, many years ago.  He was busy bending into all kinds
of verbal contortions trying to not-say what he was actually saying -- so
the orthodoxy wouldn't jump down his throat.  Makes for tedius reading.

Christians fequently mistake Mysticism for "pantheistic" -- because they
can grok the idea of someone thinking that God *is* the Universe (and
that's *all* He is) -- which they think is preposterous -- while
completely core-dumping on the second, and equally important, Mystical
co-statement that God *also* utterly transcends the Universe.  

The Levantine religions (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam), as Joseph
Campbell termed them, are also traditionally fond of accusing Hinduism of
being poly-theistic, which isn't the case.

Well, I've blathered on enough about it.  Hope that gives you some general
ballpark idea.  Others may see the whole thing quite differently.

For a much better discussion of Hinduism, read Zimmer's "Philosophies of
India".  

	-- John Hoag
Newsgroups: alt.hindu
From: umanand0@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Sandeep Anand)
Subject: Glad to See alt.hindu
Status: OR
Apparently-To: alt-hindu@math.waterloo.edu
Originator: editor@rbhatnagar
Keywords: Congratulations!!
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:56:26 GMT
Return-Path: <news@ccu.UManitoba.CA>

 HI netters,
      I am very happy and proud to see that there is Hindu group on the network.
   I would be looking forward to read many articles from this group and I myself be posting the articles in the group.  I hope all others will like this group also.  
       OH YEAH,   GUYS LET'S KEEP IT CLEAN FROM OTHER RELIGION'S DISCUSSIONS!!
                     see ya!!!

                                                Thanking You,
                                            VICRANT ANAND.


Newsgroups: alt.hindu
From: editor@rbhatnagar.csm.uc.edu (digest editor)
Subject: What Is Hindu Fundamentalism?
Organization: Univ of Cincinnati
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 19:18:06 GMT

From loca@netcom.com Sun Dec 27 14:08:17 1992
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Newsgroups: alt.hindu
From: loca@netcom.com (John Hoag)
Subject: What Is Hindu Fundamentalism?
Message-Id: <1992Dec27.191110.10398@netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 19:11:10 GMT
Apparently-To: alt-hindu@ames.arc.nasa.gov
Status: OR

Every now and then, I read or hear the term "Hindu Fundamentalism".  I have
no idea what it means.  As a Westerner who has a great admiration for the
philosophies and mythologies of India, and a positive affection for its
greatest religious works, I find the word 'fundamentalism' hard to imagine
in the context of the word 'Hindu'.  Mahatma Ghandi, for example, is often
said to have been shot by a "Hindu Fundamentalist".

I can understand the word 'Hindu' as used in a purely ethnic, even political
sense, but in that case 'fundamentalist' doesn't really apply. 

Anyone have any ideas on this one?

	- John Hoag

Newsgroups: alt.hindu
From: editor@rbhatnagar.csm.uc.edu (digest editor)
Subject: Re: Glad to See alt.hindu
Organization: Univ of Cincinnati
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 19:19:04 GMT

From loca@netcom.com Sun Dec 27 13:44:49 1992
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Newsgroups: alt.hindu
From: loca@netcom.com (John Hoag)
Subject: Re: Glad to See alt.hindu
Message-Id: <1992Dec27.184740.9072@netcom.com>
Keywords: Congratulations!!
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 18:47:40 GMT
Apparently-To: alt-hindu@ames.arc.nasa.gov
Status: OR

I'm glad to see this newsgroup, too!  Looking forward to reading and posting
to it!  Whoever started it, thanks!

	- John Hoag (loca@netcom.com)


Newsgroups: alt.hindu,soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian
From: veerasam@utdallas.edu (Jey Veerasamy)
Subject: Info. about Vedic Mathematics
Status: OR
To: alt-hindu@rutgers.edu
Originator: editor@rbhatnagar
Organization: Univ. of Texas at Dallas
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 01:24:17 GMT
Return-Path: <news@rutgers.edu>


I have an american friend who is very much interested to know
about Vedic Mathematics. Any information or references from the
netters will be very helpful. Kindly reply me by mail.
I will post the summary.

With regards,
Jey.
veerasam@utdallas.edu

Newsgroups: alt.hindu
From: verma@pfeast.enet.dec.com (Virendra Verma)
Subject: Budhism and Hinduism
Status: OR
Apparently-To: alt-hindu@Pa.dec.com
Originator: editor@rbhatnagar
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 20:20:24 GMT
Return-Path: <news@ryn.mro4.dec.com>


In article <u7egvpo@zola.esd.sgi.com>, murgesh@rendezvous.esd.sgi.com (Murgesh Navar) writes...
> 

	Buddhism was very much part of Hinduism. I cannot agree that
	Buddhism is nastika, i.e., does not depend on Vedas for its
	veracity. It came out as a reaction to Brahmin's monopoly on
	Hinduism.

	Buddhism very much flourished in India as long as it was not
	corrupted by outside influence. Christianity drew heavily from
	Buddhism and also influenced the latter during later part of
	Buddism. That is the reason why Buddhism could not survive in
	India. The miseries of the women (an assaryian concept) was brought
	to India by Buddhists. Remember, a woman can never attain salvation
	is a Buddhists concept. Islam or Moghul invades have nothing to
	do with disappearance of Buddhism from India.

namaste,

-- Virendra Verma
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer:
   My employer is not responsible for my views. Read my views at your 
   own risk.
   ****
   tamso ma jyotir gamaha	   - [Lord] take me from darkness to light.
   shramam bina na kimapi saddhyam - Nothing gets accomplished without work
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.hindu
From: hughes@logos.ucs.indiana.edu (larry hughes)
Subject: Re: Bhakti- The Easy Way Out
Originator: editor@rbhatnagar
Organization: University Computing Services News
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 13:15:12 GMT
  

In article <Bz9wMo.7EA@geog.utoronto.ca>, GSR Gopal <gopal@geog.utoronto.ca> writes:
>editor@rbhatnagar.csm.uc.edu (digest editor) writes:
>>  To which Krishna says :
>>    Those who fix their minds on Me and always worship Me
>>
>what krishna taught arjuna is said to be philosophy, not bhakti
>[...etc...]

Good point; yet philosphy is usually based on theory.

I believe that Krishna meant complete one-pointedness of mind and 
purpose, specifically directed toward Self realization.  Direct
perception of Krishna (or God, Higher Power, etc.) is what enlightens
us, not theory or belief.

 //==================================================================\\
||      Larry J. Hughes, Jr.       |        hughes@indiana.edu        || 
||       Indiana University        | "The person who knows everything ||
||  University Computing Services  |        has a lot to learn."      ||
 \\===================================================================//
From: srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca (Srinivasan K.)
Newsgroups: alt.hindu
Subject: Re: Vegetarianism & Hinduism: Are they linked?
Date: 30 Dec 92 17:56:17 GMT
Organization: Hydro-Quebec
Status: OR
To: editor@rbhatnagar.csm.uc.edu
Originator: editor@rbhatnagar
Return-Path: <srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca>

>From amit@point.cs.uwm.edu Fri Dec 25 00:56:41 1992
> 
>I had been reading a book by historian K.M Sen on Hinduism, and it had
>mentioned that the original (primoridal hindus:-pre Gita period and after the
>puranas), did used to eat cow on celebrative occasions.
>	Does it mandate or say in any of the considered sacred hindu 
>documents, that a hindu should be a vegetarian?  Or has it just been
>something that came wtih the influence of Buddhism and (sanatn dharma) ?
>			-amit.
>-- 
>

You are right. Original Hindu scriptures do not recommend vegetarianism.
Atharva veda is the only one which has some harsh words to say against
meat eating. On the other hand, atherva veda was probably, an independent
work, compiled from the beliefs of the pre-vedic people of the land, their
magic, and other customs. That is why Atherva Veda is 
often excluded by staunch vedics.

Today's vegetarianism in India is due to socio-religious reformers like
Mahavir Jain, (more than Gauthama Buddha, who lived at the same time)
Sankaracharya, Ramanujacharya, Madhvacharya, Mahatma Gandhi etc.

K. Srinivasan at Hydro Quebec.
From: narayana@cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana)
Newsgroups: alt.hindu
Subject: Re: Vedic marriage rituals
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:39:03 GMT
Organization: Penn State Computer Science
Status: OR
To: alt-hindu@rutgers.edu
Originator: editor@rbhatnagar
Return-Path: <news@cs.psu.edu>

In article <9212301733.AA08099@slinda> srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca (Srinivasan K.) writes:
>The list included 8 rituals which formalize a marriage.
>Many marriages all over India incorporate many of those
>8 rituals. But for legal purposes, Only one is sufficient.
>
>In North India:
>Going round the fire
>
>In South India: (Not sure outside Tamil Nadu. Others please confirm)
>Tieing a sacred thread (thaali) around the bride's neck.
>[This was not listed among the eight listed as vedic rituals].
>Interestingly, many Christian sects in South also use 'thaali'
>with a 'Cross' to formalize a marriage.
>
>So even if none of the 8 vedic rituals are performed, it is still legal
>in substantial portion of India.
>
>K. Srinivasan at Hydro Quebec

As for as I know (because I went through the marriage rituals),
all the 8 mentioned did take place. The extra component is the
MangaLa Suuthra DhaaraNa which is a southern variation.

Do all perform the ceremonies? It depends on how religious
the bride and bridegroom are, or their parents are.

For GOI all that is required is the proof that the marriage is performed.
In divorce cases, and cases involving second marriages (contested by the
first wife), the witness by a priest who performed the ceremony is
required. Having a Thaali is not sufficient. Note that all this is
required only if the marraige is not registered according to the
Hindu marriages act. This ofcourse is the approach in AP. Ofcourse
TN I don't know!

...kt
Newsgroups: alt.hindu
From: Mahesh V Tripunitara <tripunit@cs.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: What Is Hindu Fundamentalism?
Status: OR
To: editor@rbhatnagar.csm.uc.edu
Originator: editor@rbhatnagar
Organization: Penn State Computer Science
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 21:10:05 GMT
Return-Path: <tripunit@cs.psu.edu>

You have voiced a question that has haunted me ever since I've heard the
expression myself...by the way, I was born a Hindu (& still like to think
that I am one). After all, we know that 'Hindu' refers only to 'Indu' or
'Indus', the river around which the ancient Indus valley civilization
flourished.

Mahesh.
From: GSR Gopal <gopal@geog.utoronto.ca>
Subject: Re: Bhakti- The Easy Way Out
Status: OR
To: @cs.toronto.edu@uunet.UU.NET, @xenitec.xenitec.on.ca@uunet.UU.NET,
        @uunet.ca:alt-hindu@uunet.UU.NET
Originator: editor@rbhatnagar
Mmdf-Warning:  Parse error in original version of preceding line at xenitec.xenitec.on.ca
Organization: University of Toronto Department of Geography
X-To: alt-hindu@uunet.uucp
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:44:47 GMT
Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca,@relay.cs.toronto.edu:gopal@geog.toronto.edu>

editor@rbhatnagar.csm.uc.edu (digest editor) writes:

>  To which Krishna says :
>    Those who fix their minds on Me and always worship Me
>
what krishna taught arjuna is said to be philosophy, not bhakti
Those fix their minds on ME... is being interpreted in an altogether
different and new way than what we learnt in india. one should
act according to one's positional coordinates dictate.. but without
being result conscious.  ME above only means the brahman (no brahmin, the cast,pl)
and it is what is already contained in all upanishads too.(see for instance,
maandyookopanishad or isavaso.




Newsgroups: alt.hindu
From: revankar@cs.buffalo.edu (Shriram Revankar)
Subject: Re: Request for Vedic marriage rituals
Status: OR
Apparently-To: alt-hindu@cis.ohio-state.edu
Originator: editor@rbhatnagar
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:20:29 GMT
Return-Path: <news@acsu.buffalo.edu>


	I have attended several HINDU marriages that spanned from 1 to 3 days.
It would be of great help to me, and many other fellow netters if some one
posts the symbolic significance of the rituals. 

	Thank you

Shriram


	

Newsgroups: alt.hindu
From: editor@rbhatnagar.csm.uc.edu (digest editor)
Subject: Re:Bhakti- The Easy Way Out
Organization: Univ of Cincinnati
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 02:18:17 GMT

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Newsgroups: alt.hindu
From: forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu (Eric Forbis )
Subject: Re: Bhakti- The Easy Way Out
Message-Id: <forb0004.161.724919539@student.tc.umn.edu>
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 06:32:20 GMT
Apparently-To: alt-hindu@uunet.uu.net
Status: OR

In article <Bz9L2v.BAE@ucunix.san.uc.edu> editor@rbhatnagar.csm.uc.edu (digest editor) writes:

>Subject: Bhakti- The Easy Way Out
[material deleted]
>
> Later Krishna says:
>   Great hardships must be endured by those who are intent
>   on worshipping the Unmanifest by means of meditation, 
>   severe penance, etc. For the embodied (humans) it is  
>   indeed hard to achieve knowledge of the Unmanifest. 
>   Gita 12.5

The phrase taking "the easy way out" has very negative connotations in 
English, and is usually associated with the avoidance of responsibility. 
Doesn't seem to be what you're refering to, though perhaps I should wait for 
part 2 of your post. 

Regards,


---------

Eric Forbis      forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu

Newsgroups: alt.hindu
From: editor@rbhatnagar.csm.uc.edu (digest editor)
Subject: Hinduism A to Z : A primer on Hindu thought and ideals.
Organization: Univ of Cincinnati
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 02:15:04 GMT

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To: alt-hindu@uunet.UU.NET
From: editor@rbhatnagar.csm.uc.edu (digest editor)
Newsgroups: alt.hindu
Subject: Re: What Is Hindu Fundamentalism?
Date: 29 Dec 92 21:10:27 GMT
Organization: Univ of Cincinnati

From loca@netcom.com Tue Dec 29 00:53:30 1992
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Newsgroups: alt.hindu
From: loca@netcom.com (John Hoag)
Subject: Re: What Is Hindu Fundamentalism?
Message-Id: <1992Dec29.055621.21040@netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 05:56:21 GMT
Apparently-To: alt-hindu@ames.arc.nasa.gov
Status: OR

Mahesh V Tripunitara <tripunit@cs.psu.edu> writes:

>You have voiced a question that has haunted me ever since I've heard the
>expression myself...by the way, I was born a Hindu (& still like to think
>that I am one). After all, we know that 'Hindu' refers only to 'Indu' or
>'Indus', the river around which the ancient Indus valley civilization
>flourished.

Yes, it's puzzling.  Glad to know I'm not the only one it puzzles.

Does anyone have a clear idea what "Hindu Fundamentalism" is supposed to
mean, and who means it that way?  Is this just a case of Western reporters
and historians not understanding Hinduism and ascribing to it their best
guess of what they think it must be like, but in Western terms?  Or does
it actually refer to something in Hindu society?

Perhaps befuddlement is the proper response to "Hindu Fundamentalism".   

	-- John Hoag