HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: moochie@camelot.bradley.edu (Melissa Koontz)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: You Know You're in the SCA....
Keywords: nose
Date: 9 Nov 92 15:47:39 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Bradley University


   ....When you go to a fabric store with a friend to buy matterial
for an evening dress, and when your friend asks you if you like a
peice of pretty rayon fabric you automatically reply " Thats not
period".

:-)

--
   Slowly, gently night unfurls it's splendour...
   Grasp it, sense it - tremulous and tender...
   Turn your face away from the garish light of day, 
   turn your thoughts away from cold, unfeeling light -
   and listen to the music of the night...
					-Phantom of the Opera
moochie@camelot.bradley.edu             Adelind von Rosenberg
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: jael@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Jael)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: You Know You're In The SCA......
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:47:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.Bx95Aq.95J
Distribution: world
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center


Your children learn "sword hand" and "shield hand" long before learning
"right" and "left."

This is also how we teach our stick jocks to dance....

-- 
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Jael                    |   "One dream, one soul, one prize, one goal,     |
| jael@sage.cc.purdue.edu | One golden glance of what should be." -R. Taylor |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Fealty to a kingdom
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:19:00 GMT

In article <92309.191833JJ9262A@auvm.american.edu> John A. Jordan Ii. <JJ9262A@auvm.american.edu> writes:
>   My apologies for using so much space on the Rialto, but I have failed to
>correctly state the extent of my question.  Let me try again.  As a participant
>in the SCA, what are my obligations to a Kingdom?  Please take into account
>that my character is of free peasant stock and a professional soldier/
>mercenary.  I am specifically interested in obligations that are "rules of
>the society"  I.E. According to the BoD, you must do.....

As I recall from my relatively recent reading of Corpora, that
document is silent on the subject.  However, if you were to become an
officer--especially at the kingdom level--then there are some relevant
items.

I think you will find that your obligations under the situation you
have laid down most likely do not exist in law at all.  There may be
*customs* that dictate certain things, but what those are and how they
are 'enforced' will be very dependent on purely local conditions.

You are certainly *allowed* to simply state "I am visiting from a
distant land--and that is where my loyaties lie."  How this will fly
will depend on local conditions.

>    Also, how much authority do kingdoms have in establishing their own
>regulations.  Could a kingdom, at the direction of the king, withdraw
>the fighting authorization from certain members in order to enforce the will
>of the crown?

Yes--but unless there was cause its not overly likely to stick.
(Again, this sort of thing depends on local law and custom.)  I can't
imagine (well..  yes I can...) a king doing so over something as
trivial as a fighter being resident but retaining prior loyalties.
Indeed, he would be well advised not to make an issue of it as he
might someday find himself in a similar position and have his own
actions cited....

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: TALLAN@flis.utoronto.ca (David)
Subject: Re: paper
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 09:18:11 GMT

> Date: 05 Nov 92 05:41:34 EST
> From: Jack Thompson <76520.3531@compuserve.com>
> To: SCA@mc.lcs.mit.edu
> Subject: checking in
> Message-Id: <921105104133_76520.3531_DHE29-1@CompuServe.COM>
>
> Greetings.
> I am new to this list. Although not a member of any SCA chapter, I do have
> an interest in matters medieval, in that I am a conservator/restorer of such
> things, primarily books.  To me, that means wood, metal, findings, pigments,
...

Just pointing out to those who may not have made the connection that
this is the same Jack Thompson who authored all of those
bibliographies that were so recently cross-posted from MEDTEXT-L.
Welcome aboard.

Actually, while I'm on the subject can anyone recommend a good sort
of acid free paper for use in making some books of hours (to be hand
calligraphed, illuminated and boud). Don't say parchment unless you
also quote a source that is REAL CHEAP as I'm pretty close to my debt
limit and these thing look to be three to four hundred pages long.

David/Thomas
David Tallan (tallan@flis.utoronto.ca)
From: JRECHTSCHAFF@hamp.hampshire.EDU
Subject: endurance
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 04:10:00 GMT

Greetings to the Rialto,

   On endurance and training in the middle ages...
   The training schedule of Jean le Meingre, also known as Boucicault, 
the marshall of France in the early 15th century (he was at Agincourt)
goes as follows:  Every day he would run for miles in his armor.  He
would then practice using an axe or mace and do summersaults in his 
armor.  Also clad in armor, he would mount on his horse without the aid
of stirrups, scale wall.  He would also climb the reverse side of a ladder
in a "steel surcoat" (which I assume is mail).

Boucicault was also one of the survivors of the disaster at Nicopolis and
held the field for 30 days at St. Inglebert.  He was captured at Agincourt
and died in England as he could not afford the heavy ransom. 

Sources: Sydney Anglo, Technique of Chivalric Combat, Archaelogical Journal,
1988 and Le Livre des faicts du Mareschal de Boucicault ed. by Michaud and
Poujoulat.

In Service,

Lyanna of Bergental
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Group activity
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:29:27 GMT
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM

Greetings from Arval!

Elwyn wrote:

> While I realize there are exceptions to every rule, IN GENERAL, a group
> which functions only within itself and holds no events for outsiders to
> attend, and whose members do not often travel to events in other, more
> distant areas, is either stagnating or in danger of stagnation.

You ahve introduced something that was not part of the discussion:
You are assuming that the branch is not only not holding published events,
but it is also not inviting outsiders to its meetings _and_ it's members
are not travelling.  If a group were not interacting with the rest of the
Society in any way, then there would be a good argument that it should be
dissolved.  However, there are many ways to interact with the kingdom other
than holding events.  

Furthermore, as Tibor has noted, the fact that the branch has held a
published event does not establish anything about the actual level of
activity in the branch.  The requirement does not accomplish what it is
supposed to do, and it narrows the range of possibilities available to a
branch.  Those seem to me to be excellent criteria for eliminating the
requirement. 

> Now, I would ask:  What is so difficult about meeting the requirement?  

That is entirely beside the point.  The bureaucracy should not impose upon
local branches and individual members unless there is a solid reason for
doing so.  The bureaucracy exists for the convenience of the membership,
not the other way round.


Tibor wrote:

> Perhaps one of our Kingdom Officers, or former Kingdom Officers, could
> enlighten me on what services the Kingdom provides branches, even
> moribund ones, that merit compensation?  

The existance of a branch requires the regional and kingdom officers to do
a certain amount of paper: processing tax reports & quarterly reports,
overseeing local officers, ensuring that there _are_ local officers, etc.
For offices which primarily provide specific services as requested (herald,
marshal), the central workload is only weakly related to the number of
branches; for offices which primarily supervise (seneschal), there is a
stronger correlation.

> And, is running an event an appropriate and suitable form of
> compensation?

That is the real question.  There is a legitimate argument that it is:
Running a public event uses your group's resources to benefit the members
of other groups.  In a sense, when you run an event you shift resources
from the local branch to the kingdom.  Therefore it is a reasonable
pay-back for using kingdom resources to support your group.  I don't think
this is a particularly strong argument, but it is logically sound.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: You Know You're In The SCA......
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:20:50 GMT

Christofer de Hoyland wrote:
  It's amazing how a good loud "Oyez!" will stop people
  in their tracks mundanely. Seems to be a function of
  the unexpected....

Or, maybe they speak Spanish.  In spanish, the imperative
of to listen, is Oye (Listen!).  In Miami, the Cuban Hispanics
use it in their speech all the time, like we would use hey.

	Tibor (Oyeme, Gringo, soy un Herald Profesional!)
	(well, OK Arval, I'm an apprentice.  But I play one
	one on the net.)
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel)
Subject: Re: Dance video (was Re: out-of-period dancing)
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology - DSP
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 16:29:22 GMT

Greetings unto the Rialto.

Bjalfi (how on earth do you pronounce that?) brought up
some good questions concerning the video idea.  Well,
the initial idea was just thinking out loud.  I will
now put out some other ideas.  Not that I think they
can all work, but it is easier to shoot at a specific 
target, than some vague moving shape in the dark.

1) Distribution  -- the distribution can be handled
                    centrally by the same office which handles
                    the Known World H. and the Comp. An.
                    This would probably only work if the video
                    concept is used for other uses besides just
                    dance.

2) Selection -- Whoever makes the tape, decides what to put
                on it.  Maybe later a group can get together
                and create a compilation.

3) Quality Control -- "What, that dance! It's all wrong!
                       Only a crippled stork from 1547 would
                       ever move that way!"  This is probably
                       the biggest problem.  To start out,
                       maybe the tapes can be limited to
                       dance Laurels, or those sponsered by
                       such a knoweldgeable source.  How is
                       this handled in the fighters Handbook
                       or the Complete An.?

4) Style -- You make the tape, you pick the style.  If, for
            instance, Vashti prefers her interpretation over
            Justin's, then she can put her version on her tape.
            Competition goes a long way.

5) Production -- Example.  Justin and company decide to perform
                 4 dances at event A, and 3 dances and event
                 B and C.  Someone is asked to videotape these
                 dances.  Either at rehearsal (to keep the 
                 evil machine from the event) or at the event.
                 Actually, a small one day event could be staged
                 just to make the tape.  Then Justin and 
                 company write instructions, some information
                 and create a copy of the sheet music. 
                 (Don't break copyright!)  Then this can be
                 made available to individuals via mail
                 with the costs covered by the buyer.  I would
                 expect around $25-$35 after shipping.

OK, fire when ready!

In Service...
Aoghann

-- 
     The comments and spelling herein are mine and nobody
                     else lays claim to them.
================================================================
Lonnie D. Harvel                 |  ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Renn Faire overlap
Date: 9 Nov 1992 17:28:39 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <urcat.721208068@mcl> urcat@mcl.ucsb.edu (Eilidh Swan) writes:
>
>Regarding So.Cal.'s Ren Faire (which to the people out here *IS FAIRE*....
>translate: you mean there's Faire in other places??!!).....

There is a Northern Faire too...run by the same people more or less...
and a lot of us in Northern California used to work in it.  Most of
us don't any more.  There were several reasons, as I recall.  (1) They
used to pay fairly generously, at the least in enough meal tickets to
feed you through the weekend.  They dwindled down and stopped this in
about AS X.  (2)  They do, not unreasonably, concentrate on one particular
period, the reign of Elizabeth, and those of us who live in earlier
centuries and don't want to do Renaissance don't fit in.  (3)  They
don't [and indeed didn't from the first, but it became more noticeable
as time went on] care a flying frog's fart about courtesy.  I can still
remember when some of our people were, as part of their Sheriff's Men
act, helping patrol the boundaries and turning away those who hoped to
get in on the cheap.  Our people would say things like, "Excuse me,
milord, I believe you're in the wrong part of the Faire grounds; the
entrance gate is over there..." and the Faire staff would bawl them
out for not saying, "Awright, you @#$%%^&$$#, get the $%^^&$&@# out
of here before I beat your face in."

But the biggest difference, as other posters on this subject have
mentioned, is the one I use for mundanes who want to know the difference:
"At the Ren Faire they're actors, performing for an audience.  In the
SCA we're doing this for ourselves."




Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt

(who hasn't been to the Faire in about fifteen years, it is too G*D*
expensive.....

Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Argent, a cross forme'e sable

Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: OOP Dance/fun period dances
From: pears@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Arnold N Pears)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 06:34:57 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

In article <720933436.F00001@ocitor.fidonet> Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring) writes:
> How do you handle teaching at revels? 

I have seen dancing taught at revels often. Never by me, people know
how much I hate imprecision, and sloppy footwork. In a revel environment
you can never hope to get more than the basic formations across
unless people already know the dance a bit.

Another method used here in Stormhold, (Melb, Aust) is for there to be
dance classes during the afternoon prior to the event. Often the dances
that will be danced are published in advance, then people who know them
can turn up to the event with partners and dance. Those who cannot do
those dances can practice, and then dance in the evening.
In this way anyone with a bit of forethough can dance, and those of us
who dance regularly, (In my case 4-6 hours per week) can  just come
along and have a good time.

Arenwald von Hagenburg.

-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Arnold Pears.  Computer Sci Dept		ACSNET : pears@latcs1.oz
La Trobe Uni, Bundoora 3083.			"Well here we all are then."
    Ph (03) 479-1144						-ME
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: out-of-period dancing
Date: 9 Nov 92 22:46:55 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

sherman@trln.lib.unc.EDU ("Dennis R. Sherman"):
>A rule of thumb previously mentioned -- if the dance is for a longways 
>set, it doesn't look period to many of us who have studied dance.  

As people have noted here before, the longways dance is tied to two
post-period trends:

-- The transition from dance-as-performance to general-participation dance.
	(This doesn't mean that there wasn't general-participation dancing
	in period.)

-- The adoption (in England, at any rate) of an architecture which
	supported general-participation dancing.  In particular,
	longer halls.

-----
Dani of the Seven Wells
dani@netcom.com

   Aphorism is better than none.
From: WILLIS%EIVAX@ualr.EDU (Braendur)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: (none)
Date: 4 Nov 92 17:37:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Good Tidings to the Gentles of the Rialto,

The Patent of Arms that was given to the former Queen in Meridies was revoked
because it violated the law of the Kingdom.  It was not attached to any
peerage order, Chivalry, Laurel, or Pelican, and Kingdom law specifically
stated that to recieve a POA one must be approved by one of the peerage orders.
Since that time, Kingdom law has been changed to allow someone holding a
County or Duchy to be recieve a POA and not become a peer.  It will not effect
their precedence since they must be a royal peer to recieve it.  Whether or not
Her Excellency holds the POA now I do not know.

Brandr Wyborn, Shire of the Small Grey Bear, Kingdom of Meridies
////////////////////////
/willis%eivax@ualr.edu /
////////////////////////
From: patmcg@home.merit.edu (Pat McGregor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: russki garb
Date: 8 Nov 92 16:42:05 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan
NNTP-Posting-Host: home.merit.edu

> > From: Henry.Best@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Henry Best)
> >
> >   Greetings to all and sundry,
> >
> >   I have a lady in my shire who wants to wear russian or
> > bulgarian garb.
> > I have tried, in my own humble way, to find her some good
> > sources. All I can

The gentle who posts from Michigan (Alan?) should be able to find you the
name of the lady from SE michigan who makes the most amazing Russian wear.
(I'd look it up myself but I'm away from such useful things as my home
and telephone directory.)
 
(Can you tell I'm stuck in a hotel and bored? ;-)  )
 
siobhan

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
       Siobhan Medhbh O'Roarke                Pat McGregor
       Shire Cynnabar, Middle Kingdom         3638 Greenook Blvd
                                              Ann Arbor, MI 48103-9143
       patmcg@merit.edu     
       smor@um.cc.umich.edu                   (313) 426-3506
       UserW02V@umichum.bitnet
From: stevenr@coch11.alleg.edu (Rebecca Stevenson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: RE: NW PA, thank you!
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:47:24 GMT
Reply-To: mccombj@alleg.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: Allegheny College


Sorry I have to post this netwide, I'm not very good at this yet, but  
thank you to those who responded to my plea.  Maybe I'll be seeing you  
around!

			Rebekah   
			stevenr@alleg.edu
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Welsh name question
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:11:33 GMT


    > >The Welsh letter "f" is always pronounced "v".
 WH> > 
 WH> > Unless, of course, there are two of them together, in which case
 WH> > it's pronounced exactly like English 'f.'

 WH> Sheesh... :-)

 WH> And people complain about simple, easy to pronounce names like Bjalfi
 WH> or Hrolf....

 WH>      --Hal

 Or (even worse) simple, easy to pronounce two-syllable names like Tadhg...

    Tadhg, Obelisk

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Godfrey de Shipbrook <jlee@smylex.UUCP>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Oyez (was Re: You Know You're In The SCA......)
Date: Sat,  7 Nov 92 11:01:01 EST
Organization: Shipbrook Software  (Tampa, FL)

Greetings from Godfrey!

Tibor writes:
> Christofer de Hoyland wrote:
>   It's amazing how a good loud "Oyez!" will stop people
>   in their tracks mundanely. Seems to be a function of
>   the unexpected....
> 
> Or, maybe they speak Spanish.  In spanish, the imperative
> of to listen, is Oye (Listen!).  In Miami, the Cuban Hispanics
> use it in their speech all the time, like we would use hey.

Interesting.  In Connecticut, Puerto Ricans use "mira" (look) in
the same fashion.

Then again, when I was in college, I knew an English major who used
"hwaet!" to gain attention...  :-)

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Net:  Jeff Lee / jlee@smylex.uucp / jlee%smylex.uucp@tscs.tscs.com     |
| SCA:  Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook / Wyvernwood, Trimaris                 |
|       Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
  Please to remember the fifth of November / Gunpowder treason and plot.
From: willektk@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: You Know You're In The SCA......
Date: 7 Nov 92 06:27:07 EST
Distribution: usa,world
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati

In article <1992Nov5.192050.27650@progress.com>, schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei) writes:
> Christofer de Hoyland wrote:
>   It's amazing how a good loud "Oyez!" will stop people
>   in their tracks mundanely. Seems to be a function of
>   the unexpected....
> 
> Or, maybe they speak Spanish.  In spanish, the imperative
> of to listen, is Oye (Listen!).  In Miami, the Cuban Hispanics
> use it in their speech all the time, like we would use hey.
> 
> 	Tibor (Oyeme, Gringo, soy un Herald Profesional!)
> 	(well, OK Arval, I'm an apprentice.  But I play one
> 	one on the net.)
> --
> Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
> [I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]


Well.....   Oyez is the French imperitive of listen...  thats where it was
taken from...... 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: u83161@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Alex Tewes)
Subject: Management styles vis a vis SCA
Organization: University of Tasmania
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:56:51 GMT

Greeting All!

Bretram writes
>I know that Carolyn and a few others might be interested in discussing
>the SCA in light a various management philosophies.  Would anyone else
>like to add their comments?


Indeed I do!

Anyone given any thought to the "Management Teams" approach and why it is 
usually a *group* of officers/ autocrats/ household that gets things done?

Anyone done any study on "Management in the SCA?"

Pls feel free to write and comment privately; I'd be interested in some 
discussion

Martin de Mont Blanc (mka Alex Tewes)

Shire of Ynys Fawr/Lochac/West

U883161@postoffice.utas.edu.au


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca