From: katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: [UPI] "Queer Nation Milwaukee to boycott United Way"
Date: 29 Aug 92 03:05:56 GMT
Organization: Auto-trol Technology Corporation -- Denver, Colorado
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

jce@cs.scarolina.edu (James C. Evans) writes:
: katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty) writes:
: 
: >jce@cs.scarolina.edu (James C. Evans) writes:
: >: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo) writes:
: >: 
: >: >In article <1992Aug26.011106.14665@uwm.edu> dpfabie@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (David Paul Fabie) writes:
: >: >>The issue is the right of a private organization to set
: >: >>standards for its membership.  I don't agree with the Catholic Church's
: >: >>stance on Women being unfit to be clergy.  But I respect and accept their
: >: >>right as a private organization to set such standards.  The ramifications
: >: >>for all private groups should the BSA lose are staggering.
: >: 
: >: >It's not a question of private organizations, it's a question of
: >: >discrimination.  It is a question of gays being role models.  If you think 
: >: >not, then you aren't thinking!  And you're right, the ramifications if
: >: >the BSA loses are staggering! Civil Rights for all!! What a concept!
: >: 
: >: How about freedom of association?
: >: 
: >What conservatives really mean by freedom of association is freedom for
: >them to discriminate against anyone they hate. It's a red herring.
: 
: I'm sorry, but from the standpoint of protecting civil rights, I have
: to agree with Mr. Fabie.  So long as a club's connections with government
: are weak, its membership should be allowed to discriminate in its
: admission policies against whomever it wants.  Now you and I may find
: that discrimination ridiculous or even offensive, but that is the nature
: of civil rights--to protect people who are doing unpopular things.
: To the extent BSA is a religious organization, and some would argue
: that it is, BSA's argument is strengthened.  I simply don't know
: enough about the strength of BSA's government connections, or about
: recent case law on the subject, to comment on the issue of whether
: BSA's actions are government actions for purposes of applicability of
: the Bill of Rights.  In any event,
: it doesn't strengthen an argument to minimize or
: reject someone else's civil rights when claiming your own.
: 
I stand by my statement. The same argument can (and is) used to 
exclude Jews, Hispanics, African Americans, name-your-favorite-
target-of-bigots. If bigots don't want to associate with whomever,
it is within their rights to walk away. It is not within their
rights to demand others be excluded. But that's not what bigots
want, they really just want to make themselves "superior" to 
others. In fact, if bigots had their way, those whom they hate
would be excluded from public places. They don't give a gnat's
ass about rights, they just want to justify their bigotry by
claiming the right of association. 

It's a shame that tolerance seems to have been excluded from the
BSA, as well as gays and atheists.  Here's reality: gays and lesbians
(and atheists) are, and always have been, everywhere, including the
scouts. All of a sudden, in part because gays and lesbians have 
decided that it's about time we claim EQUAL RIGHTS, the BSA, instead
of acknowledging those who have always been there, embarks upon an
intolerant witch hunt. 

Make no mistake about it - unless Pat Buchanan comes to power in 
this country and starts putting us in ovens, we will win this fight,
because it is just and right that we should end this abhorrent bigotry.


Kathy



Kathy
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