HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Monday, 23 Nov 1992 14:26:00 EST
From: <IO10644@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Anyone use Brooks Hydroflow
 <1er8dvINNq0q@spool.mu.edu>

I had a pair of these and for reasons that I can't remember they
were no longer wearable.  Out of curiosity I cut them apart to look
at the HYDROFLOW UNIT.  Let me tell you, that sucker was so solidly
built--to prevent blowout I would guess--that it didn't seem possible
for anyone to generate sufficient force to move the green goop from
one chamber to the other.  It also looked to me, and I admit I'm no
scientist, that the force on one chamber would be pretty damn close
to the force on the other--they are less than an inch apart--and I
saw no reason, short of wanting to visit relatives, why the green
goop shouldn't stay exactly where it was ALL THE TIME.
    I think the cushioning was due to the squishy stuff that the hydro-
flow unit was cased in, and that it was basically a HYPE-FLOW unit that
tricked us poor suckers--that grasped at anything that might possibly
make us run faster--shell out an extra few bucks...

Personally, I think Abebe Bikila had the right idea--bare feet...

             byeeee...
Giles.
From: conway@cstr.ed.ac.uk (Steve Conway)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Jogger is killed when hunter mistakes him for a deer
Date: 15 Nov 92 18:22:25 GMT
	<JQD=ml-@engin.umich.edu>
Organization: Dept. of Linguistics, University of Edinburgh

>>On 14 Nov 92 21:58:46 GMT, lowrie@eddy.engin.umich.edu (Robert Byron Lowrie) said:

> In article <8f1JCLm00iV2Q2XmNc@andrew.cmu.edu>, Thomas Oligino <to0b+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>> Hopefully the family of the Runner will sue Mr. Cook for every thing
>> that he and his family have. It won't bring the man back but at least it
>> serves as some form of punitive action.

> I'm guessing that this news has been given so much response because
> most of us abhor the idea of hunting, myself included.  If the Runner
> had been killed by a drunk driver, I doubt we would have gotten such a
> response in this group.  I would imagine many more runners are killed
> by drunk drivers than shot by hunters.  In perspective, hunting is a
> legal activity, and when you equip a human with a deadly weapon,
> accidents are bound to happen.  Mr. Cook should get no more punishment
> than a careless (NOT drunk or reckless) driver.

I think this argument is kind of backwards.  Anyone who fires a weapon
at anything that moves, without identifying it first is far more
likely to kill or injure another human being than a hunter who is
careful.  Similarily, speeding or drunken drivers are much more likely
to kill or injure than other drivers.  Mr. Cook was reckless (as far
as I can tell from the postings here), not merely careless. 

Anyone who chooses to blast away at anything that moves, or to speed,
or to drink and drive, is deliberately taking actions that greatly
increase the dangers to other people.  All of these actions should be
regarded as anti-social and unacceptable.  Unfortunately, at present
they are often seen as perfectly OK.  (Although, in the UK at least,
drink-driving has become unacceptable).  We should be at as outraged
about the death-toll due to drunken and aggressive driving as we are
about this kind of tragic incident.

As for us not being outraged if a runner was killed by a drunken
driver, I have certainly been outraged by the incidents I know of
(including instances of vehicles deliberately aimed at runners).  The
rec.bicycle groups regularily have reports of deaths of cyclists due
to drunken, reckless, homicidal or incredibly careless drivers,
complete with howls of outrage (often at the paltryness of the
punishment, if any, meted on the driver).

Steve.

--
Steve_Conway@edinburgh.ac.uk             _--_     __          0        /
                                        /    \ __/  \_       /|\/    _/ 
Centre for Speech Technology Research  /   _  \       \      \|     /   
and Department of Linguistics,        / __/ \  \       \ __ \/ \  _/    
Edinburgh University, Scotland.      / /     \----------/  \____|/
From: dutfield@sumax.seattleu.edu (Stewart Dutfield)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Jogger is killed when hunter mistakes him for a deer
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:43:54 GMT
Organization: Seattle University

1. Carry a whistle during hunting season! At least you are safe in the knowledge
   that anyone who shoots you does so out of malice rather than incompetence,
   and they may find it more difficult to evade the consequences.

2. Carry a whistle even when it's not hunting season. I have been with 50 yards
   of guns inside the Rainier National Park (on the Chinook Creek trail between
   Cayuse Pass and Ohanapecosh) outside hunting season. These were obviously
   bozos, which didn't make me feel any better :-)

3. The case of the woman shot in her backyard in Maine or Vermont (the killer
   got off scot free) shows that each individual in the outdoors must bear the
   responsibility for distinguishing her or himself from something huntable.
   Too bad if that requires that we scare of all the game for miles around.

4. Carry a whistle!
From: sanjaym@camus.sni-usa.com (Sanjay Manandhar)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Jogger is killed when hunter mistakes him for a deer
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:04:31 GMT
Reply-To: sanjaym@camus.sni-usa.com (Sanjay Manandhar)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Siemens-Nixdorf Information Systems, Inc. Cambridge, MA

When is deer hunting season anyway?

Most of these postings should also go the rec.hunting. I want to get
their reaction but again maybe not, the philosophies of these two groups
are probably too wide apart.

Alas, killing another(human or animal) for pleasure, how sick...

sanjay

***************************************************************************
* 	Sanjay Manandhar           Internet: sanjaym@sni-usa.com 	* 
* 	SIEMENS-NIXDORF              USENET: ...!uunet!nixbur!sanjaym	* 
* 	4 Cambridge Center               Ph: [usa](617)349-5047		*  
* 	Cambridge, MA   02142 		FAX: [usa](617)864-3176		* 
***************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: epstein@cs.uiuc.edu (Milt Epstein)
Subject: Re: Racing wheelchairs
Reply-To: epstein@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 04:37:56 GMT


In <1992Nov20.021747.11975@umbc3.umbc.edu> cs631112@umbc8.umbc.edu (cs631112) writes:

>Which brings up a point I had been wondering about:
>
>Are those who race in the wheelchair divisions always handicapped?
>Or are there some who, while able to walk, would rather race on
>their arms than their legs?
>
>(I am never near enough to the front to even see the wheelchair
>racers either before or after the race.)
>
>I see no reason why walk-able atheletes should be banned from 
>the wheelchair division, although I imagine that those who have to
>spend their lives in wheelchairs have a decided advantage of practice.
>But is there anybody who tries?
>
>Personally, I don't have the upper body strength to push myself 
>even a mile, much less the 26.2 I try to run.

On a similar note, I've sometimes wondered if when one has some type
of not too serious leg injury (i.e. one that would prohibit one from
running and cycling, but not other activities), would it be feasible
to do some training in wheelchairs.  I realize it might take a while
to get used to the different muscles involved, but otherwise it seems
like it would be a decent way to maintain aerobic conditioning (and
also provide some variety in training, and a way to build up your
upper body at the same time).  Anyone ever heard of people doing this?

-- 
Milt Epstein
Department of Computer Science
University of Illinois
epstein@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: dsmith@atlastele.com (Doug Smith)
Subject: Re: Jogger is killed when hunter mistakes him for a deer
Organization: Atlas Telecom Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:44:30 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.031054.24594@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> jcs@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (john.c.schwebel) writes:
>Text of Article Follows from The New York Times, 11/12/92:
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>
>MORRIS, Conn., Nov. 11 (AP) - A jogger on a dirt road was shot
>and killed today by a deer hunter in this town in rural
>northwestern Connecticut, the state police Said.
>   The state police said the victim, Kevin Ellioott, 33 years old,
>of Terryville, was running on Pitch Road near the Pitch Reservoir
>when he was killed by a single blast from a shotgun. He was
>wearing a blue jogging suit, the police said.

I know little about guns and even less about hunting, but do people
use shotguns to hunt deer with? Don't you need to be close to
your target when using a shotgun? Also, isn't it illegal to discharge
a firearm across a road?
 
The shooter is at least criminally negligent, and more likely is
gun toting, crotch scratching, whiskey swilling in-bred hill
billy who hangs out in the woods looking for 'runner-boys' with
pretty mouths.
  
Yeee-Haaaa
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Nike Any Good? (was: Nike Air Pegasus vs. Air Anodyne)
From: tim@cs.cosc.georgetown.edu (Tim Snyder)
Date: 20 Nov 92 14:34:44 -0500
Distribution: na,world
Organization: Georgetown University, Washington DC

In article <92325.101517IO10644@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> <IO10644@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
>...  I think I would recommend you buy a 1/2 size bigger than
>you normally wear in Pegasus.  Has anyone else noticed that these
>shoes (Anodynes) seem to shrink?  I know it sounds nuts but they
>...

My Anodynes _trashed_ my feet.  Worse than any shoe I have ever used.
The problem was in the toes.  My toes got crunched to pieces; lots of
blisters.

I have E widths, and up until my last purchase, some New Balance 644s,
I used Nike.  My Air Pegasus's had the air in the heel "blow out."
My cross-trainers fell apart.  

Is Nike as good as it is cracked up to be?  I say, No way.

 Timothy Law Snyder
 Department of Computer Science
 Reiss 225
 Georgetown University
 Washington, DC 20057

tim@normal.georgetown.edu
(202) 687-6208

Newsgroups: rec.running
From: tordm@vand (Tord G.M. Malmgren)
Subject: Re: mysterious runners death in Sweden
Reply-To: TordM@VanA.PhySto.SE
Organization: Department of Physics, University of Stockholm -- Sweden
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 11:09:12 GMT


 thanks! now, could there be any connection like taking steroids and doing
heart-stressing training like interval, which orienteering is, could lead
to some problems with your heart like it growing too much or getting "watery"?
("watery" is a term the local bobby-builders use at the gym I go to, to
 describe how their muscles get when they take too many steroids)
I can understand there be no way to find out if they took steroids, but
I'm curious as to whether it's possible at all...




---------------+--------------------------------+----------------------------
 Tord Malmgren | InterNet: TordM@VanA.PhySto.SE | These opinions are my OWN,
               | BITNet  : TordM@SESUF51        | and NOT of this department!
---------------+--------------------------------+----------------------------
 Department of Physics, University of Stockholm -- Sweden (Northern Europe)
Xref: sparky rec.running:3269 news.answers:4140
From: smay@boi.hp.com (Scott Smay)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Jogger is killed when hunter mistakes him for a deer
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:36:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: mail.BxtI5E.9BI
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Robert Byron Lowrie (lowrie@eddy.engin.umich.edu) wrote:
: 
: I'm guessing that this news has been given so much response because
: most of us abhor the idea of hunting, myself included.  If the Runner
: had been killed by a drunk driver, I doubt we would have gotten such a
: response in this group.  I would imagine many more runners are killed
: by drunk drivers than shot by hunters.  In perspective, hunting is a
: legal activity, and when you equip a human with a deadly weapon,
: accidents are bound to happen.  Mr. Cook should get no more punishment
: than a careless (NOT drunk or reckless) driver.

I'm not sure about your distinction between careless and reckless. A reckless
/careless driver who kills someone should be charged with negligent
homicide, as should a hunter who shoots at unidentified targets and connects
with people. Also, I am not opposed to hunting, having hunted for a large
part of my life. I think most hunters are outraged by this type of mistake,
because they know they are easily avoided by responsible people. 


: 
: To prevent this from occurring again, we shouldn't worry so much about
: punishing Mr. Cook, but instead concentrate on keeping the general
: public away from hunting areas.  If this means there should be less
: hunting areas, so be it.  I can't imagine being in an area where my
: life is in so many other people's hands.  In other words, let hunters
: shoot each other, but not me (: Unfortunately, an argument I often
: here is that much of the money used to set aside public lands comes
: from hunters (through license fees, taxes, ...), although I find this
: hard to believe.
:
I think should disabuse the public and the hunting community in
particular of the notion that citizens killed by hunters have themselves
to blame. I think that means punishing and making an example of Mr. Cook,
and others like him. There are accidental deaths that involve no crime,
but this kind of negligence is definitely criminal.

scott smay
From: cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Plantar Facilitus (sp?)
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:37:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: ux1.1992Nov16.193712.39429
Organization: Eastern Illinois University

In article <keithb-161192072706@powderkeg.advtech.uswest.com> keithb@advtech.uswest.com (Keith Bechard) writes:
>
>Well, I started having a pain in my left arch and I knew that I was
>probably experiencing Plantar Facilitus (sp?), PF for short.  A trip to the
>doctor confirmed that.  He also told me what I expected him to say - rest
>and anti-inflammatories.  Anti-inflammatories are no problem, but I'm not
>real crazy about the rest part.  Anybody have any other tips on how to
>eliminate this nagging injury??

    Try seeing a sports podiatrist.  The one I saw prescribed orthotics,
which have been working really well.  When I asked him how much I might
have to cut back on my training, he said he'd rather I just keep at my
normal mileage and see how the orthotics did.  The relief from good
orthotics is usually immediate - during this first run after you get them.
It was wonderful!

    I have some journal articles from sportsmedicine journals that I'd be
glad to forward to anyone.  They present a pretty good clinical picture of
PF and the different treatment strategies.

-- 
   ******************************************************************
     Howard Black                             cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu
     Department of Chemistry                  Eastern Illinois Univ. 
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: kingpin@mole.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Joe Smooth)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Type of gloves?
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:09:59 GMT
Organization: None

In article <1992Nov20.182510.7333@europa.asd.contel.com> pascoe@rocky.gte.com (Dave Pascoe) writes:

   I've just started getting back into running and, as we're starting to
   enter winter here in New England, find that I need gloves for running.

   I'd just be interested to hear what kinds of gloves other runners like
   to use.

  ---

I use the Reebok gloves which I like a lot.. They hug your hands, but they
can still "breathe"..
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: kpapai@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Ken Papai)
Subject: Re: Nike Air Pegasus vs. Air Anodyne
Organization: SF-Bay Public-Access Unix
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:48:52 GMT

 (David Ross) writes:
>Is the Air Anodyne built on the same last as the Pegasus?  If so,
>how do they compare on support/cushioning/stability?
>I ask because I'm a long-time Pegasus wearer (every attempt to switch
>to other brands in recent years has caused injuries), but my current
>shoes are compressing and the local dealers don't have my size (10EE)
>in stock on the Pegasus.  (Moreover, the distributer on the mainland 
>seems to be backordered through January.)  I think I can get the Anodyne
>in my size, but only want to do so if the shoe isn't too different

Posting my reply since the mailed bounced.  I've gone through lots of
Air Peg shoes and have always liked them.  I alternate them every other
day with Air 180's or Air Anodynes.  I like the Anodynes a lot.  The
toe room is a bit tighter though.  They seem to have plenty of cushioning,
support, & stability.  As a strictly Nike wearer, and one who has semi
flat feet and wide feet, 11.5 EE or so, I can recommend the Anodynes.

Ken Papai
Sunnyvale, CA

(I wear the width the stores stock, which seems to always be D width,
 maybe I ought to find a store with E widths?)
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: ross@tarski.tmc.edu (David Ross)
Subject: Nike Air Pegasus vs. Air Anodyne
Organization: University of Hawaii Mathematics Department
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 02:54:05 GMT


Is the Air Anodyne built on the same last as the Pegasus?  If so,
how do they compare on support/cushioning/stability?

I ask because I'm a long-time Pegasus wearer (every attempt to switch
to other brands in recent years has caused injuries), but my current
shoes are compressing and the local dealers don't have my size (10EE)
in stock on the Pegasus.  (Moreover, the distributer on the mainland 
seems to be backordered through January.)  I think I can get the Anodyne
in my size, but only want to do so if the shoe isn't too different
from my usual.

Thanks,

David.

--
David Ross, Dept. of Math., Univ. of Hawaii at Manoa, Honolulu HI  96822
Internet: ross@math.hawaii.edu  -or- ross@tarski.math.hawaii.edu
Phone: 808-956-9949
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: prom@src.honeywell.com (Greg Prom)
Subject: Re: Plantar Facilitus (sp?)
Followup-To: rec.running
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:57:44 GMT


I had a mild case of plantar faciitus. A sports doctor prescribed some soft
orthotics which I wear in my running shoes and my dress shoes at all times.
I take out the removable sockliner first. This can be a problem with some
shoes. I no longer suffer from the problem but the doctor recommends that I
continue to wear them as arch supports to avoid future problems. I initally
used cold packs after a run but never had to quit running. Some of my
running friends had more severe cases and had a more difficult time getting
rid of it. 

Good luck.

prom@src.honeywell.com  (Greg Prom)
-- 
farragut 2%  cd ../sbtool
 cd ../sbtool
farragut 3% assem.sun -voe Bpass1
assem.sun -voe Bpass1
From: leino@rat.vtt.fi (Tapio Leino)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: mysterious runners death in Sweden
Date: 16 Nov 1992 11:32:55 GMT
Organization: VTT / Lab. of Structural Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: rat.vtt.fi


As an orienteer myself I have been following this story about the 
mysterious deaths in Sweden. I know most of what has been found so far
but the truth is that one elite and six other young orienteers died of
heart attacks which they got either while training or just after it. They
all seem to have trained when having some sort of an infection !! A young
field&track runner has also died recently the same way and one of the
skaters of the Swedish national team had some chest pains which were also
connected to these earlier cases. Fortunately he is still living with no
danger anymore.

The result of these death cases which in fact took place starting three
years ago (and were discovered earlier this year as having something in
common) is that the national orienteering, ski-orienteering and skating
national squads in Sweden have been recommended to take a break and see
the doctor before more training. Also the Danish, Norwegian and Finnish
national orienteering teams have been given the same recommendation because
the TWAR (a micro-organism, not a virus or bacteria!) has been detected in
one of the death cases and is suspected to have caused the others too.

Some other reasons for the heart attack have also been presented but they
seem to think the TWAR is their best bet?!? 

TWAR is one of the reasons for all of us to get the flu. When tested in
Sweden more than 65% of a group of common blood donators were fould to have
the counter agent of TWAR in their blood which shows that they sometime
before have had the TWAR. 

Usually the TWAR has only very mild effects on a person. One get maybe
sore throat, a little fever, aching in your body etc.  Only in some 
special circumstances it can cause the heart muscle inflammation which
can cause the death. So there really is nothing new to this TWAR!!

WE JUST HAVE TO BE CLEVER ENOUGH NOT TO TRAIN WHEN WE ARE ILL !!

But this is what we all knew before!

-- 
Tapio Leino
Technical Research Centre of Finland / Laboratory of Structural Engineering
mail: VTT/Rakennetekniikan laboratorio, P.O. Box 26, SF-02151 ESPOO, Finland
tel: -358-0-456 6683, telefax: -358-0-456 7003    e-mail: Tapio.Leino@vtt.fi
From: conway@cstr.ed.ac.uk (Steve Conway)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: mysterious runners death in Sweden
Date: 19 Nov 92 13:47:30 GMT
	<1992Nov16.101150.3779@kth.se>,<1992Nov16.153725.17596@dickens.com>
	<1992Nov18.110912.7043@kth.se>
Organization: Dept. of Linguistics, University of Edinburgh

>>On 18 Nov 92 11:09:12 GMT, tordm@vand (Tord G.M. Malmgren) said:


>  thanks! now, could there be any connection like taking steroids and doing
> heart-stressing training like interval, which orienteering is, could lead
> to some problems with your heart like it growing too much or getting "watery"?
> ("watery" is a term the local bobby-builders use at the gym I go to, to
>  describe how their muscles get when they take too many steroids)
> I can understand there be no way to find out if they took steroids, but
> I'm curious as to whether it's possible at all...

I would doubt this very strongly.  Orienteering has a reputation as a
very "clean" sport, backed up by a very stringent drugs program (going
on the experiences of the international orienteers I know).  I can't
believe that if there was a large group of steroid users in the sport
that there would have been no hint of it.

I don't think steroid use would even make much sense to an orienteer.
EPO would be of more benefit, say.

Finall, heart muscle is of a different type to skeletal muscle.  I
don't know whether the effects of steroids are the same for the two
muscle types.

Training while suffering from infection seems the most likely cause at
present.  This isn't just an orienteering problem - athletes in other
sports have died in similar ways.  Orienteering has just been hit hard
by it, and has reacted in a newsworthy manner.

Steve.
--
Steve_Conway@edinburgh.ac.uk             _--_     __          0        /
                                        /    \ __/  \_       /|\/    _/ 
Centre for Speech Technology Research  /   _  \       \      \|     /   
and Department of Linguistics,        / __/ \  \       \ __ \/ \  _/    
Edinburgh University, Scotland.      / /     \----------/  \____|/