HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: broy@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu (Barbara Roy)
Subject: Re: Winter Pasture Care
Summary: Round Bales
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:27:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.190311.24144@piston.detroit.ingr.com>, ferricpl@piston.detroit.ingr.com (Pat Ferrick) writes...
>In article <18NOV199208491326@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu>, broy@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu (Barbara Roy) writes:
> 
>(Much stuff deleted)
> 
>> I feed big round
>> bales all winter in a 3 acre lot, so the horses get a little running around
>> room even in the winter.
> 
>I don't meant this as a flame, but I was under the impression that feeding
>horses round bales is not especially healthy for them. The barn where my horse
>is boarded used to do this in the winter. They have decided not to do this
>anymore because of the numerous vets who have voiced their collective concern
>over this practice. They are notorious for mold, which can upset the digestive
>tracts of some horses. I believe round bales are meant for cows who do not
>seem to be as sensitive.
> 
>Has anybody else found this to be true?
> 
>Pat 
>Golden Ghost(who is happy that the cold weather is here and that his riding time
>has been curtailed somewhat!)

I have been feeding big round bales for at least 10 years to my Arabians with
nary a digestive problem. My vets are aware of this and have no problem with
it. In fact, this is a fairly standard practice here in the midwest where there
are lots of farmers with the larger equipment. In less rural areas, smaller
equipment is more prevalent. 

Baled properly, at the right time, any type of hay bale is fine for horses. When 
stored outside ANY type of hay bale will acquire some outer mold, but the horses
ignore the outer layer and go right for the good stuff in the middle. Big bales 
stored inside are equally as good as small square bales. I have 7 big round 
bales in the center aisle of my barn that I can fork off to my stalled horses 
and ponies who don't have access to a big round bale outside. Again, the trick 
is to make sure the hay is properly cured before baling. Square bales will also 
mold if they are baled wet.

By the way, dairy hay (pure alfalfa usually) is THE most expensive and best
hay you can buy. Dairy farmers are VERY finicky about what they feed their
milk cows. Feeder cattle are a different story though.

Barbara Roy, University of Iowa, Weeg Computing Center, Iowa City, IA.  52242
Internet:   broy@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu or Barbara-Roy@uiowa.edu
Bitnet:     broyva@uiamvs.bitnet  
Disclaimer: My opinions are solely my own and may change daily.
From: deblev@nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu (Debbie Levine)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: White Spots from Injurys?
Date: 16 Nov 1992 19:22:50 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
NNTP-Posting-Host: nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu

In article <92318.33881.6175190@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> 6175190@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
>...Why, at least on a dark horse, after an injury does the hair sometimes


It seems to have as much to do with genetics as the severity of the wound,
and I think I have noticed that it tends to happen more often with
age.  There is one horse at our barn, a bay, whose girth area is 
COMPLETELY white from girth galls (horrible thought).  There is another
chestnut mare who seems, suddenly, at 21, to be sprouting white hairs
over every minor nick and fly-bite.

Debbie
deblev@ipac.caltech.edu

Xref: sparky rec.equestrian:5787 ne.forsale:5177 misc.forsale:31826
From: kenr@isc.com (Ken Rossen)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,ne.forsale,misc.forsale
Subject: Dressage Bridle For Sale
Date: 22 Nov 92 01:29:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: ima.1992Nov22.012926.22610
Distribution: na
Organization: Interactive Systems, Cambridge, MA 02138-5302
Originator: kenr@grunt.ima.isc.com

Posted for my spouse.  All other items from previous posting have been sold.

Warmblood-sized English made black leather dressage bridle.  White
lining with brass buckles.  Purchased from Dover Saddlery.  Excellent
condition.  - $75.00, less reins.  Add postage, if applicable.

[This is a very sharp-looking bridle --Ken]

For information, reply by e-mail to me or call Karen at 508.928.5367.
--
KENR@ISC.COM
From: ae361@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Sonya Paetzel)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: horse doesn't like to be groomed
Date: 23 Nov 1992 20:29:13 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


The horse I used to have, Col.Rags (aka Robin) used to HATE
being brushed.  He would pin his ears and try to bit me
while I tried to brush him.  He had had a very bad life until
I bought him (from what I heard from others and various scars
on him).  First thing I did was go to the tack store and buy
every kind of soft brush I could find (most were with black bristles)..
Then I slowly started working with him. Because he was a show
horse, he spent most of his time blanketed, so he usually wasn't
extremely dirty (and he wasn't much of a "roller" (thank goodness)).
I always kept small pieces of carrots in my pockets and then
while I would brush him and he would try to bite me, I'd stick
a carrot peice in his mouth.  Eventually  I was able to brush
him without getting bit.  After a while he just made faces at me
but didn't try to hurt me.  He never was completely cured of
hating being brushed but I did discover that he LOVED having
his face brushed with a really tiny black bristled brush I 
bought him so after our daily grooming I rewarded him by doing
his face.  I guess the "carrot trick" might be dangerous
with horses that get nippy, but it worked for me (maybe because
he hated being brushed baecause he had been abused and not
because of a moody personality).  I also had access to a vacuum
cleaner and he didn't mind being vacuumed.

Sonja
From: AS.KCC@forsythe.stanford.edu (Keith Chinn)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: horse doesn't like to be groomed
Date: 23 Nov 1992 15:29:19 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

Boy, can I relate to this one.  My horse tosses his head, bites the
air and sometimes paws the ground when he's being groomed.  He's
especially ticklish along his spine and ribs it seems.  No amount of
bribes or varied approaches has ever made a difference.  He even
squirms under a horse hair brush!  I think some horses just don't
like being handled or are hyper-sensitive -- I don't think it's a
matter of trust for the most part.

In my case the best thing is simply to get through the grooming
process as quickly as possible using the softest brushes available.
I spray a bit of Show Sheen on the brush every so often which seems
to help pick up the dust and dander and imparts a nice sheen.

One thing I do insist upon is his standing still while being
groomed.  He can toss his head around all he wants but he's not
allowed to move the rest of himself about.  If Dollar moves around
while tied for grooming I'd recommend your getting someone
experienced to help deal with the problem.

Good Luck!

Keith and Kindred Spirit
From: deblev@nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu (Debbie Levine)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Pigeon Toed Sweetness
Date: 18 Nov 1992 02:40:00 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
NNTP-Posting-Host: nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu

In article <92322.50327.6175190@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> 6175190@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
>... The only time I know of that she went lame was when they
>"trimmed" her long show feet too severely. She was fine once they grew out
>to a more normal (for her) length. Before anyone flames, they are not long
>now.

I think I heard somewhere that pigeon-toed horses were apt to be OK
unless someone tries to straighten them out with corrective shoeing!

Debbie
deblev@ipac.caltech.edu
From: deblev@nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu (Debbie Levine)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: XC Schooling Safety Question
Date: 24 Nov 1992 01:48:49 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
NNTP-Posting-Host: nimoy.ipac.caltech.edu

In article <1992Nov19.235301.8720@nb.rockwell.com> reichard@nb.rockwell.com (Diane Reichard) writes:
>[...]
>That makes sense--but brings up a couple questions...  I can see where the
>horse would quickly learn the difference between xc fences that are solid
>and the stadium jumps which can be knocked down.  How do you keep your horses
>careful for stadium if they learn that these can be knocked down (assuming
>we're talking about a horse that doesn't mind rubbing the occasional rail)?

Well, some horses AREN'T careful in stadium and there's not a lot you
can do about it.  Some top eventers have been infamous for dropping
back in the placings by dropping lots of rails in stadium.  I think
some horses wind up with eventing careers rather than jumper careers
precisely because of this...

And then there are horses like this little thoroughbred mare I rode
for a little while up in Washington-- if she so much as rubbed a 
pole, she'd canter 3-legged halfway around the arena.  She was so
paranoid  that I once dropped my stick a couple of trot strides
out from a crossrail, and she just took off from there rather than
chance stepping on it!

Debbie
deblev@ipac.caltech.edu
From: patty@alpha.larc.nasa.gov (Patty Howell)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: cost of lessons
Date: 23 Nov 1992 18:04:57 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: alpha.larc.nasa.gov


I recently read a magazine article that mentioned the going
price of dressage lessons from about $85 - infinity, and I got
to wondering what other people *really* pay. 

So, how about it guy's....what do you pay for dressage lessons
[and what contributing factors influence that cost (i.e. location,
trainer's background .....)]?

e-mail or post. I'll be away for Thanksgiving, but I'll compile
and post Monday the 30th.

patty@alpha.larc.nasa.gov

ps I know I promised a listing of "the old masters" by date
   and their contributions...In my pre-first cup of coffee
   state I left my notes with exact dates on the kitchen counter.
   Aren't Mondays horrible? I'll see if I'm in a better state
   of coherent thought tomorrow.
From: gale@chrysos.Eng.Sun.COM (Gale Snow)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Shoeing, Blacksmith Questions...
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:40:58 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: chrysos

In article <1992Nov12.175933.22667@nas.nasa.gov> gundy@equus.nas.nasa.gov (Karen L. Gundy-Burlet) writes:
>In article <1dr447INNh8r@seven-up.East.Sun.COM> sfrisch@panache.East.Sun.COM writes:
>>I am looking for some input, advice regarding shoeing.
>>
>>... that there
>>was about an 1/8 of an inch of shoe overlapping his hoof.
>>
>
>This is good!  Usually shoers are pressured by owners to exactly fit
>the shoe to the edges of the hoof because it looks pretty.  I have been
>told by both my shoer and my riding instructor that this gives the hoof
>insufficient support and no room to expand as it grows.  T-Bar has only
>pulled a shoe 2-3 times in the 13 years I have owned him, and I insist
>on ~1/8 inch of shoe outside of the hoof and sufficient shoe behind to
>support his heel (fortunately my shoer does this naturally!).  Too bad
>I have to shoe him in the first place...I would rather he go barefoot,
>but he has extremely soft feet.
>
>Karen & T-Bar
>

be careful here.  there seems to be two schools of thought about shoes
providing support by leaving some heel.  my mare had a terrible time last
winter with shoes that had lots of heel left on them.  i tried to tell the
farrier that it wasn't working for her, she would forge (audible clanking of
front and hind shoes) and pull the front shoe off by stepping on the heel.
the shoer didn't believe me and wouldn't change the way the shoes fit.  after
she pulled the shoes off 6 times in 6 weeks, there wasn't enough hoof left
to nail a shoe on anymore (like swiss cheese is how my new shoer put it).  i
changed shoers and had to go with glue-on shoes for 3 months before she could
wear regular shoes again.  now her shoes are 1/2 rounds that fit her hooves
exactly.  anyway, that's been my experience - thought it might help others ...

gale snow
c'est jolie and jaseroque
portola valley (sf peninsula) california
gale.snow@sun.com
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: alan_c@cix.compulink.co.uk (Alan Chapman)
Subject: Re: Feeding Old Horses
Cc: alan_c@cix.compulink.co.uk
Reply-To: alan_c@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 11:35:32 +0000

In: <9211110515.AA15913@sophia.smith.edu> turowski@sophia.smith.edu
(Petra Turowski) writes:

> ever.  A useful addition to his feed might be a bran mash every time.


The latest opinions of equine nutritionists is that bran
mashes are not a good idea.

As, bran is indigestible it passes through the gut unchanged, in doing
so, it removes the helpful intestinal flora - so you may need to feed
more. These bacteria take around a week to re-establish themselves.

It also contains a substance (phytate) which can reduce the uptake of
calcium from the gut leading to a calcium deficiency.

Alan.


Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: <tonyp@cnvxla.COM> (good, Conan - good!)
Subject: Re: Horse breakdown potential
Reply-To: tonyp@convex.COM 
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:57:10 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

I'd like to thank everyone who has given me input onto this.

The general concensus of opinion is "Don't get a horse!", -But- *DO*
join a stable, go to ride-meets, talk to people, learn about horses,
and in a year or two THEN you'll be ready to take one on full time.

This sounds like some good advice.

In fact, one young lady has invited me to visit her riding association!   :-)

I was under the impression that they were about the same as owning
a dog or cat. Don't laugh too hard... I see horses all around my
place, that just stand out in a small corral, day after day, looking
bored to death. I assumed they required ZERO maintenance because I've
never seen anyone pay them any mind. It really hurts to see an animal
treated like this. 

One day, I'd like to be able to take in some of those old timers, show
them some love and affection, and make their final days pleasant.

BCNU
tonyp
--
    Tony J. Podrasky          - When God was making big men,
     San Diego , Ca                        -and- 
    tonyp@convex.com            When God was making little men,
QSL? QRU? QRZ? QLZ? QFA?        Samuel Colt was making  EVENERS     - unknown  
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: kcarver@dante.nmsu.edu (Kenneth Carver)
Subject: Re: Heaves (was: Feeding Old Horses)(LONG)
Summary: excess lung capacity allows function despite damage
Keywords: heaves, emphysema, alveoli, lungs
Organization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 04:33:58 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.230555.16962@watson.ibm.com> mchugh@watson.ibm.com (Mary McHugh) writes:

>I was under the impression that as a result of the overload of
>histimines from the allergic reaction, the alveoli in the lungs are
>damaged irreparably.  In a less severe case, the efficiency of the
>healthy portion of the lung can be increased to compensate for the
>damage, but a severely damaged lung can never recover.  Am I
>mistaken???  Can I dare to hope that I can rehabilitate Bub
>somewhat????  Has anyone out there been able to return a seriously
>heavey horse to work??? Let me know!!!

You are right on about the lung damage.  Let me quote from the Horse
Of Course article:
"The degenerative changes in the areas of emphysema are irreversible.
Once the alveoli are destroyed, they do not grow back."
"Since the alveolar changes are not reversible, there is no way for us
to truly "cure" heaves in a horse.  Once the patches of emphysema have
formed they will be there forever.  Fortunately nature has supplied
the horse with a generous supply of excess lung capacity.  It can
survive and function quite well with large patches of enphysema
PROVIDING nothing interferes with respiration through the remaining
normal lung tissue."
"Your veterinarian can prescribe certain drugs such as
corticosteroids, antihistamines, expectorant cough syrup and
bronchiodilators to aid nature in getting rid of the exudates that
have already formed in your horse's lungs.  But, that's symptomatic
relief...and in most cases temporary.  It's fine for taking care of
periods of acute respiratory distress, but not very practical for the
long haul.
Originally, the swelling of the bronchial tree and the production of
the exudates was the body's response to the presence of an irritant.
It would appear, that when the irritants are eliminated from the
heavey horse's diet and environment, these responses can reverse
themselves." 
                          *    *    *
As long as you're not talking about racing or endurance riding, you
should be able to get a horse back in condition for most any activity,
IMHO.  At the point that recovery begins, the horse is not only
functioning without the damaged portions of the lung, but with the
remaining lung capacity severely impaired by reversible conditions.
Once the lungs are clear, there should be sufficient capacity for most
activities, and that can be improved further by exercise.

--Ken Carver
From: betsy@vesuvius.esd.sgi.com (Betsy Zeller)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: My Sailor is gone
Date: 20 Nov 92 17:48:58 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

Yesterday, on Thursday Nov. 19, I had my beloved Sailor
put to sleep. He had been suffering from intractible laminitis
for seven weeks, which was being driven by the fact that he
had a pituatary tumour. This caused his pituatory to tell
his adrenals to pump out too much corticosteroid, which in
turn kept causing the laminitis to flare up.

Even up to last Tuesday, we thought he was going to get better.
He was on a drug to control the results of the tumour, and
despite a mild setback the previous Monday, he looked good.
Unfortunately, despite all the medications he was on,
he had two more bouts later in the week. By the next
Tuesday, the left pedal bone had come out the bottom
of his foot, despite the cast that was on it. He kept 
fighting, but by Thursday it was clear we couldn't
control the pain, and I had to let him free.

He was so brave, and so good. No matter what we had to
do to him, he never complained. He was my comfort and my
joy for the fifteen years I had him. My only consolation
is that his feet don't hurt him any more. He has been
part of me for my entire adult life, and it's hard to
imagine what it will be like without him. 

He always greeted me with a nicker or a whinny, even
the last morning of his life, when he was in so much
pain.  When he was young, he went out in a big 
50 acre paddock, and I would go to the gate and
call to him, once.  Then I would go and get my
tack, and when I came back outside he would be
at the gate waiting for me. 

I miss him so much. I loved him so much.

Betsy Zeller
From: ae361@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Sonya Paetzel)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Storing leather tack
Date: 17 Nov 1992 18:37:43 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


Does anyone have any suggestions on how to properly store unused
tack (ie, bridles and saddles).  I have a lot of tack I don't
use on a regular basis and I am getting tired of cleaning it 
every week.  I read in this month's PRACTICAL HORSEMAN that
I should use a product called something like KU CHO LINE (I
may be WAY off on the name!!!).  Anyone have any other suggestions?
Thanks!
Sonja
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: wcollins@netcom.com (Walter J. Collins)
Subject: Re: Feeding Old Horses
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:18:47 GMT

In article <memo.760222@cix.compulink.co.uk> alan_c@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>In-Reply-To: <1992Nov19.053311.23565@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au> macaj2@cspyr1.cs.ad-
>fa.oz.au (MACKINNELL AMANDA)
>>         calcium/phosphorus balances. Something I didnt know was that an
>>         imbalance in this  Ca/P can cause mental problems . Does anyone know-
>
>Don't know about mental problems but:
>
>        Calcium is required for muscle function, blood clotting and
>bone development. A deficiency of calcium in a young animal causes

If I am remembering my biology correctly, the reason calcium is required
for muscle function (or at least part of the reason) is because calcium
is used in transfering the signals nerves give to the muscles.  This
is why a cqalcium deficiency can cause muscle spasms- without sufficient
calcium, the messages from the nerves to the muscles get confused.  I
suppose that a similar function of calcium in the brian transfering
signals from one neuron to another is possible, and could cause the
mentioned mental problems. 
Sorry this is all rather vague and non-technical, its the best I can do
without one of my bio texts in front of me.

Kristin
-- 
wcollins@netcom.netcom.com  < Walt Collins / Kristin Harvey >
1011 New Hope St., #12-C  |  Norristown, PA  19401  |  (215)277-2567
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Riding Sneakers
Date: 20 Nov 92 18:37:14 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 



I just got a catalog from a company called Triple Tree Trading Co.  They 
have riding sneakers!  They call them Ride and Run Shoes.  They look like
great Hi-top gym shoes but have steel shanks and a 1/2 inch heel.  Colors:
Black or White.  Price $58.00  Sizes Ladies 5 - 9 and Men's 8 - 12, even
sizes only.  Call 1-800-677-tree

Sue

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: dianem@boi.hp.com (Diane Mathews)
Subject: Conditioning old horses
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:58:28 GMT

This is sort of an extension of feeding older horses.

My old horse and i were recently reunited.  She wasn't worked while we were
apart, and i am in the process of reconditioning her.  Is there any advice out
there for such?

Here is what i am doing:

What i am doing is watching her weight, watching what goes in and what comes
out.  I'm taking it pretty easy on her.  Most days we do a 20 to 30 minute
workout, w/ occasional days off.  After 8 weeks of slowly increasing the amount
of time working i have noticed a firming in her muscles, and slightly less
stiffness.  I'm patterning our workouts w/ what we used to do before i had to
move away and couldn't afford to bring her along yet.

The plan is to continue on like this, adding in some of the occasional
dressage/agility exercises.  I'm not interested in competition, perfection,
etc w/ her, so we have all the time in the world.  It's just that if she's in
decent shape she will probably be more comfortable.  Having had her for a long
time, and seeing her every day, i'm pretty aware of her mood.  I can tell when
she's having good or bad days.  (They're mostly good :-)

If anyone has any insights or suggestions, please respond!  She was stumbling
a little before we parted, and stumbles more now.  I've received quite a bit
of input on what could be done.  It appears to be more a matter of conditioning
than anything.

Thanks,
Diane

Samantha - 1/2 Percheron,1/2 Morgan mare
Mister & Quad - white collies
Spot - the cat (black)

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian