HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: louis@cs.UAlberta.CA (Wang Louis Tsz-min)
Subject: Sorcery
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 04:08:08 GMT

It always seemed puzzling to me why certain feats of sorcery
cannot be duplicated by another sorcerer unless the second
sorcerer can duplicate the thought of the first.  Most feats
of sorcery (at least the one that is under debate, namely the
locking of Zedar in stone at Cthal Mishrak) seem to be mostly
physical in nature.  I can understand why duplication of thought
would be required if the result of the action is somehow
intangable, such as Garion's unintentional curing of the madman
in Arendia (or was it Tolnedra?).  Such a curing would be a
highly subjective thing.  Once the madman was cured, was he as
'sane' as he used to be?  Did Garion do anything 'extra' during
the curing that may have affected the madman's mind and his
behavior?  These questions obviously cannot be answered but it's
easy to see that to cure the madman exactly the same way that
Garion cured him another sorcerer would have to think exactly
the same way Garion was thinking at the instant of the curing.
Ok, now back to the entombing of Zedar.  It's not very clear to
me what exactly happened to Zedar.  If Belgarath had simple 
locked Zedar in a small pocket of rock underneath Cthul Mishrak
then surely there must be a way for Zedar to get back out.  If
nothing else, he could just blast a hole right throught the
rocks (might be a bad idea if he was burried deep).  Or he could
translocate out to the surface.  However, it is possible that
Zedar was burried much the same way as Relg 'burries' people -
by pushing him directly into the rock, then I can't see how that
can happen and still keeping Zedar alive, which according to
Belgarath, Zedar will suffer eternal torment because he can't
get out and since he is a sorcerer, he cannot die.  I think that
the latter method of burial is the most likely, and it explains
why Polgara can't get at Zedar, because it's pretty tough to
extract someone from rock one molecule at a time. 
One last thing about Zedar's demise, I think that it was too easy.
Considering how much power was taken out of Belgarath during his
fight with Ctuchik, Belgarath should not have been able to handle
Zedar so easily.  Zedar is a sorcerer with thousands of years of
training.  Even is he was shocked, his reflexes alone should have
allowed him to defend himself better against Belgarath.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: doom@elaine36.Stanford.EDU (Joseph Brenner)
Subject: Re: alt.fan.fantasy.writers
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
	<1992Nov13.033810.25140@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <BxoJAH.Cp9@ns1.nodak.edu>
	<BxouJD.I0H@knot.ccs.queensu.ca>
Date: 15 Nov 92 18:46:19


Personally, I really dislike the idea.  Too many people are
just going to cross-post things between this group and
rec.arts.sf.written.  

If you could convice everyone one rec.arts.sf.written that
they shouldn't talk about fantasy there, then a
rec.arts.fantasy hierarchy would be great, otherwise it's
just a waste.
From: koczaja@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Donna L. Koczaja)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: advantage to a fantasy disc. group
Date: 15 Nov 92 23:56:28 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Hello, someone posted earlier  (I dunno how to 'quote' stuff, sorry) 
about 'no advantage' to a separate fantasy group.  Well, for me there
would be a great advantage, simply because I do not read Sci. fi. at all.
I am strictly a fantasy enthusiast, and would hate to have to sift through
a lot of articles pertaining to Sci Fi specifically.  So, I do think a separate
group would be worthwhile to have.  (Unfortunately I have no means to create
one, so I cant help y'all there...)

Well, just my .02

Donna  (:

Ob Eddings praise:  I have read both the BElgariad and the Malloreon, cant
  wait to read the Elenium, and even the Tamuli once it comes out...Eddings
  is one of my favorite authors...  Yeah, I admit he isnt perfect, but I still
  think he writes an excellent story with great characters...(:
From: REA105@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: touching the orb/sorcery
Date: 21 Nov 92 23:51:50 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

Yes, I am new to this net.
     Anyone that is without evil intentions may touch the orb.  Not just those
that were of the Rivan line.  This is why those of the Rivan line had to touch
the orb when they were babies.  After growing up they would no longer be withou
t any evil intentions.

     As far as the mark being a mark of a sorceror, it was(sort of).  It is whe
re the power came out of Garion(sorry, I still think of him by that name.) It w
as also a birthmark like any regular mole.  Belgareth said at one point(when he
 was explaining Garion's lineage) that some of Garion's ancestors had the power
of the will, but they had not discovered it.  The power must be discovered by o
neself in order to use it.  Coaching helps, but I am sure that even Durnik had
to discover it on his own.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: reason@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Jason E. Reasoner)
Subject: Re: Nope, it didn't show up...
Summary: Hit "n" if you don't like unrelated topics!!
Keywords: Hit "n" if you don't like unrelated topics!!
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 09:29:35 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.000324.14969@usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU> 2120158@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU () writes:
>In article <BxGL84.4qx@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> reason@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Jason E. Reasoner) writes:
>>>Let's see if my .sig shows up here...I've been gone so long from this group
>>Nope, it didn't show up...
>>But I bet mine does...
[my .sig deleted ;)]
>
> Well what about mine (sorry, but I just gotta do this...)
>Later,
>Matthew.
>
>--- number 12 of the 100 things to do to your body when you're all alone ---
   OH, YEAH... Ummm.... Please tell me!! I'm itchin' to know!!

-- 
     ******************************|---------------------------------|
     *  reason@sage.cc.purdue.edu  |"I will not buy this record, it  |
     *  aka  Smegma, Reason, Rand  | is scratched."      -John Cleese|
     ******************************|---------------------------------|
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: dkf11@cl.cam.ac.uk (D.K. Fellows)
Subject: Re: Who can use the orb
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:26:23 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.161329.2315@maths.tcd.ie>, rjwalsh@maths.tcd.ie (Robert Walsh) writes:
|> In <921917131951@ibm3090.bham.ac.uk> STUCS205@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090 writes:
|> 
|> > On the subject of who can use the Orb, as many people are now pointing out it
|> >is only those people who are pure Rivans but also it is only possible for the c
|> >hild with the #birthmark# who is  able to hold and use the orb. Also all the Go
|> >ds are able to hold it as they were instrumental in it existing.
|> 
|> I don't think so. Look what it did to Torak... Maybe the orb would think
|> that another god would do as much damage as he did.
|> 
|> >       From stucs205@uk.ac.bham
|> 
|> Later,
|>    Robert.
|> -- 
|> rjwalsh@maths.tcd.ie          \ Drain you of your sanity
|> Robert Walsh                   \ Face the thing that should not be
|> Student Computer Research Group \ 
|> Trinity College, Dublin.         \             - Metallica

But Eriond could touch the Orb once he was a god. I think that prior to Torak's
theft of the Orb, anyone could touch it, even if they couldn't wield it. After
the Cracking of the World, the Orb became more selective, and would only permit
certain people to touch it (i.e. Good Gods, the Rivan Line, and possibly The
Child of Light, as the last was not always synonymous with the Rivan Line,
especially during Vo Mimbre, when Poledra was CoL).

Always remember that the Orb is sentient, and can make it's own decisions.

Donal.

-- 
"Everything that is not nailed down is mine.
 Everything that I can pry loose is not nailed down."
    - Collis P. Huntingdon
From: dkf11@cl.cam.ac.uk (Donal K. Fellows)
Subject: Re: Book Two of The Tamuli(smart arses)
Reply-To: dkf11@phx.cam.ac.uk (Donal K. Fellows)
Organization: U of Cambridge Comp Lab, UK
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 01:26:01 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.143053.25202@lugb.latrobe.edu.au> HISC9016351D@LUST.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MAMMONE,Robert) writes:
>That would be right, just another idiot on the net. Well friend, i don't
>particularly give a fuck what you and your fag friends think.  I stated a
>long held opinion about this person, and I'll say it how, and where i want.
>So, get a life, find some real friends, and get your head out your arse,
>idiot.  Love, me 
>

People like you should be shot at dawn.

Stop spreading your useless abuse across the world and at least restrain it to
Australia.

Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against the country or the inhabitants. I
merely object to people who spew boring and irrelevant flames onto an otherwise
pleasant newsgroup. If you wish to continue this drivel, at least specify tell
your pnews to keep it restricted to your local site or your country.

Posters like you are worse pains in the arse than the types who have 16 line
.signatures

If you really feel like polluting the net, go and talk to alt.fan.monty.python,
where they like that sort of thing.

Donal.
--
"Everything that is not nailed down is mine.
 Everything that I can pry loose is not nailed down."
    - Collis P. Huntingdon
From: STUCS204@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Sorcery and Thought Duplication.
Date: 17 Nov 92 10:54:22 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, United Kingdom

There seems to have been a rash of discussion about the fact that once a sorcer
 has done something then another sorcerer could not duplicate this. This does s
eem to be the case. It could be the fact that it may be possible to repeat some
thing another sorcerer has done cf turning into a wolf/falcon but the end resul
ts are all slightly different. This would seem to imply that it is the *way* a
sorcerer thinks about doing something that prevents another sorcrerer from *exa
ctly* duplicating the "spell". So even though Zedar is/was the equal of Belgara
th he couldn't extricate himself from the rock because he didn't know how Belga
rath had thought about putting him there. This idea could be re-inforced by the
incidents with the demon fight involving Belgarath up in Gar og Nadrak (I Think
).Belgarath pointed out that *everything* had to be correct or the demon impris
oned in the body created for it would break free from its imprisonment and be f
ree to roam the world (the other sorcerer forgot to make his demonbody bleed).
This seems to imply that if there is even the slightest deviation in the way a
sorceror copies anothers thought process then all hell will break lose.

  There is also the case that the incident with Zedar has no relevance to the d
iscussion. If you remember the incident where he threw/hit Durnik and killed hi
m he showed remorse to Pol and when Belgarath said 'so thats what it means' bef
ore breaking the door down and entering the room I get the impression that It w
as with *regret* that Zedar fought Belgarath and he already *knew* that he wasn
t going to win and that he probably expected that Belgarath would do something
particulaly gruesome to him (Belgarath gets *very* angry when it concerns his f
amily) and had probably worked out that perhaps this would be the best way to e
scape Torak's will should Belgarion lose he probably allowed himself to be seal
ed up.
     I do feel that Belgarath was too cruel on Zedar because without the death
of Durnik they wouldn't have been able to reject Torak. I assume that Belgarath
 must have known about this (so that's what it means) and so I feel that his se
aling up of Zedar was not called for in that context. Perhaps it was more  for
the fact that Zedar betrayed Aldur more than anything else.
                         Thoughts Please.
                      stucs204@uk.ac.bham  - aka Richard.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: smackiet@cc.curtin.edu.au
Subject: 2nd book of the Tamuli?
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 04:55:36 GMT

Domes of Fire has been out ere for a couple of months now.  What i would like
to know is when the second book of the Tamuli is due out???  By the bye, I
thought the Domes of Fire was better than any of the Elenium, and possibly
better than all previous books he has written.
	If anyone knows when the second and/or third book is due out I would
be most grateful ....


				Terry
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: 910848v@ace.acadiau.ca (VIJAY VENUGOPAL)
Subject: Lifespan
Keywords: Question
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:15:49 GMT

Hi.
I've got two question.  Actually one question with two variations.

1.  Since Belgarion is a sorceror he is `immortal' so what then of his son.  
Is he heir to a throne that he will never have?

2.  At the end of the Mallorean one of the gods (I don't remember who I don'
t have a copy on hand) tell Garion that "probably in his lifetime" he would 
see Eriond become the god of all the people.  Again since he is immortal 
where does the probably come into?

I was wondering if I was interpreting something wrong here.

Also.  Is Garion's son a sorceror also, since he does have the mark on his 
hand???

Vijay
910848@ace.acadiau.ca
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: rjwalsh@maths.tcd.ie (Robert Walsh)
Subject: Re: Who can use the orb
Organisation: Amalgamated Durables
Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:13:29 GMT

In <921917131951@ibm3090.bham.ac.uk> STUCS205@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090 writes:

> On the subject of who can use the Orb, as many people are now pointing out it
>is only those people who are pure Rivans but also it is only possible for the c
>hild with the #birthmark# who is  able to hold and use the orb. Also all the Go
>ds are able to hold it as they were instrumental in it existing.

I don't think so. Look what it did to Torak... Maybe the orb would think
that another god would do as much damage as he did.

>       From stucs205@uk.ac.bham

Later,
   Robert.
-- 
rjwalsh@maths.tcd.ie          \ Drain you of your sanity
Robert Walsh                   \ Face the thing that should not be
Student Computer Research Group \ 
Trinity College, Dublin.         \             - Metallica
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: shemminga@cix.compulink.co.uk (Stuart Hemming)
Subject: Re: Lifespan
Reply-To: shemminga@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:26:00 +0000


In article <910848v.1.722279749@ace.acadiau.ca> VIJAY VENUGOPAL asks:

> 1.  Since Belgarion is a sorceror he is `immortal' so what then of his son.
> Is he heir to a throne that he will never have?

Although C'nedra is dryad an therefore long-lived she will eventually die
(sad but true). At that point I imagine that Garion would will himself
out of existance. I mean, the bond between those two who would have
lived together for *so* long would be too great to allow either one to
live happily for long without the other. (She may be a PITA but he does love
her)

FWIW, I also believe this would be the case for Beldin and Vella.

--------------------------------------------------------------
| Who cares whos opinions these are?!                        |
| Send me mail and I'll love you forever (Maybe)             |
|------------------------------------------------------------|     
| Stuart Hemming       | shemminga@cix.compulink.co.uk       |
| Tudor Labels Ltd     | uunet!cix.compulink.co.uk!shemminga |
| Roman Bank Bourne    | Tel :  (+44) 778 426444             |
| Lincs PE10 9LQ. UK.  | Fax :  (+44) 778 421862             |
--------------------------------------------------------------


Stuart
|8-)
From: st1da@rosie.uh.edu (Jeff Phillips)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Lifespan
Date: 23 Nov 1992 18:36 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rosie.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

>I'm glad someone brought Vella up. She isn't a sorceress, so I assumed
>that Beldin changed her form. But she should have a normal lifespan,
>no? So he would be lonely again. Unless  1) purple hawks live a long
>time, like the wolves of that world, or 2) Vella had some latent ability,
>which a powerful sorceror like Beldin could bring out. I thought that
>scene could have used a bit of clarification, since I though it fortold
>a miserably tragic ending for Beldin with Vella's eventual death, but
>everyone treated itlike the happiest event in the world! Anyone else 
>wonderabout it?
> 
>CKC
> 
> 
You are all forgetting something.  When Polgara changed Salmissra into the 
snake, she also made her immortal.  I beleive that Beldin could also do the
same.  So, when he changed Vella's form, he also made her immortal.  I am sure
that with some training and instruction, Garion could accomplish this with
Ce'Nedra if he so desired, like make her young again when she got old and at 
the same time, make her immortal.  One need not have the ability to do 
sorcery to become immortal.  So, the event is not so sad as you perceive.

These, of course, are just my thoughts.

Jeff Phillips



Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: hawkwind@rahul.net (Bhroam Mann)
Subject: Re: Rumormongering
Organization: a2i network
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 04:57:51 GMT

Hi
Last year I had to do some paper for school on a pair of books, so I picked
David Eddings and on my quest for informations i ran across something
that said he was working on some prequils to the belgariad
I dont remember where i found this info or if its true.
later
Bhroam Mann
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Bhroam 'Hawkwind' Mann
                            hawkwind@a2i.rahul.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: STUCS204@UK.AC.BHAM.IBM3090
Subject: The Orb and Aldur.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 11:48:54 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, United Kingdom

It has been suggested by a few users of this net that the orb has sentience. Th
e question that arises is 'Did Aldur,while forming the orb, give it sentience (
addition - was Aldur the origonal Child of Light).Or did the prophecy (the voic
e that speaks to Garion on occasions) give the orb sentience. Or it the orbs' s
entience the prophecy itself.

             What does anyone think.

             /    stucs204@uk.ac.bham         \   - aka Richard.
            /  or stucs204@uk.ac.bham.ibm3090  \
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: p9b3@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Dan Fleet)
Subject: Re: Size of the orb??
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:30:33 GMT

In article <21NOV199216543383@pavo.concordia.ca> e_dessu@pavo.concordia.ca (dez) writes:
[some lines deleted]

>It wasn't hard to check up on.  Page 1 of "Pawn of Prophecy" says:
>
>"Now it happened that Aldur took up a stone in the shape of an globe, no
>larger than the heart of a child, and he turned the stone in his hand until
>it became a living soul."
>
>I know it's been discussed to death, but I'm still not satisfied with Eddings'
>Orb-Sardion relationship.  If both stones were one in the Beginning, why did
>Aldur have to pick it up and breath life into it?  Is this one of those
>glaring inconsistencies that these newsgroups are made to nitpick about, or
>am I being just a little too snide?  

Of course, it is known that most writers are not consistent in a series,
(YOU try wrtiting a ten book series of Edding's detail and keep track of  
everyting... ;-)

But here is a stab at rationalization of the above passage.

Remember that humans tend to look at Gods in awe (for good reason!).
Since the gods created the world (well, UL did, the other gods populated it),
people tend to think they they are the creators of everthing.

No, say that the orb came hurtling down from space (some thousands of years
after the Sardion did, BTW), and landed in a stream, where Aldur found it.
No, being a god, Aldur would be attuned to sources of power, like the orb.
So, naturally curious about this thing, which neither he nor any of his 
brothers created, he picked it up and looked it over ("tuning it in his 
palm").  Naturally, the orb would try to comminucate, and probably had a
long conversation with Aldur.  It also probably explored Aldur's mind, liked
what it saw, and began to glow (as the Orb is wont to do on occasion).  

To an outside observer, this looks as though Aldur picked up the stone, 
played with it a bit, and, seemingly on a whim, the stone became sentient.
(The type of things that humans picture gods doing.  You have to admit that
there are very few accounts of gods meticulously (sp?) desiging the urinary
tract of a new species they are about to create.  They just mystically call
them into being.

So, what, to the human recorders of history, occured, was Aldur created the
orb.  What is more likely, however, is that Aldur merely DISCOVERED the orb,
and perhaps his divine presence caused the sleeping stone to awaken once
again.

just my $0.0214 worth ($0.02 + 7% GST)

---
Dan Fleet is p9b3@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca
Stay where you're at and I'll come where you're to.




>dez, the Grand Old Dink of the North
>


Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: p9b3@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Dan Fleet)
Subject: Re: The Lock
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 13:04:37 GMT

In article <92318.110418EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu> <EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>Here is something that has bothered me since the first few chapters of Pawn of
>Prophecy:
>          Does anyone remember when Polgara was putting a young Garion to bed,
>he reached out his hand (the one with the mark on it) and touched Pol's white
>lock of hair....And it opened a 'window' of thoughts?
>          I've always wondered what this was.  Eddings seems to use this just
>to capture the reader's interest, but then seems to COMPLETELY forget about thi
>s.   Garion doesn't even ask about this later on.
>
> Any clues?

 This happens a couple of times, I believe.  I think Eddings used it to 
indicate to the reader that Garion was destined to be slightly more than 
just your average "rags to riches" hero.  I think that the contact between
Garion's mark and Polgara's mark catalyzed his sorcerous ability.  
(i.e. The contact "woke up" Garion's sorcery).  Every time he did it, the
slumbering power of Garion's Will began to stir, creating this "window of
thoughts".

This holds with other occurences of sorcerors touching other young sorcerors.
i.e. When Belgarath touches the hair of the young Polgara, that lock turned
white.  (i.e. Belgarath's touch seems to have catalyzed Polgara's then-dormant
ability into active sorcerous ability), marking her in the process.


>Eylon Geva            |   "Somebody please tell me that I'm dreaming,
>geva@orville.psu.edu  |    It's not so easy to stop from screaming..."
>exg106@psuvm.pdu.edu  |                            Iron Maiden

Dan Fleet is p9b3@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca     University of New Brunswick 
Domes of Fire is excellent: read it!           Fredericton, NB, CANADA 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings