HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lord@andersen.uucp (Bob Lord)
Subject: Re: Express Modems: When?
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 21:10:35 GMT

archie@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Archie Cobbs) writes:

>lord@andersen.uucp (Bob Lord) writes:

>>Does anyone know when the Express Modems from Apple are going to ship?  Why
>>are they back-ordered?
>>-- 
>>Bob Lord					100 South Wacker Room 932
>>Network Manager					Chicago IL, 60606
>>CSTaR Group, Andersen Consulting		312-507-5353
>>lord@andersen.com

>According to the folks who backordered one for me, MARCH (!)

>-Archie

And according to MacLeek, they have been trickling out of the factory for
only a little while now.  This problem would not be so bad, except that I
bought a Duo to be more mobile, not to force me to work at the office.

Also, since this modem is part hardware (data pump) and part software (most
of the rest of a standard modem), I wonder if part of the problem is the
software.  I am sure it would not be simple to write.  It would be nice if
Apple could deliver what it promised.

-Bob

-- 
Bob Lord					100 South Wacker Room 932
Network Manager					Chicago IL, 60606
CSTaR Group, Andersen Consulting		312-507-5353
lord@andersen.com
From: noel@wtgdir.UUCP (noel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Re: How safe is it to send money to Hermes BBS software??
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 93 14:54:16 GMT
Organization: wtgdir
Reply-To: grace!wtgdir!noel@moscom.com


In article <1993Jan23.145249.1@cc.curtin.edu.au> (comp.sys.mac.comm), ssocl01@cc.curtin.edu.au writes:
> Hi Hermes BBS users
> 
> 	A few months ago someone posted messages in this group saying how
> he got ripped off after he send money (to support "keyware" as the author 
> names it) but don't get anything back - details not shown here.
> 	Does anyone know is it safe to send money in (this may seem a stupid
> question!) so that I can get the rego number in order to use the BBS software?
> I am impressed with the way the BBS software works. However I don't want to 
> send in the $75 the author asks for but don't get any number back!
> 
> 	Please let me know wether it is safe to send money in or to look for
> other BBS software somewhere else.
> 

Probably as safe as it is to send in your money for v1.1 of Macintercomm.
 I bought it at the BOSTON expo and was promised an upgrade in a month,
then I was promised an upgrade a month later... This continued until
I was promised an upgrade at the SanFran Expo and guess what.... NO
UPGRADE....  Now when I ask about the upgrade, they only reply 'soon'.

So, maybe the Hermes and MacIntercomm are not the same product but
it is beginning to seem like they are treated the same way.


Harry Noel
--------------------------------------------------
grace!wtgdir!noel@moscom.com or noel@aber.umsl.edu           
--------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: Bret Oeltjen <oelt0002@student.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: New Data Line -- UUCP? ARA? Fax???
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A78A4BC0BC026515@dialup-slip-1-21.gw.umn.edu>
X-Xxdate: Tue, 26 Jan 93 02:00:32 GMT
Organization: U of M
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d17
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 07:59:03 GMT

I just installed a data line for my Mac.  I am in college and use
 it mostly to pass homework files and new shareware/freeware from
 friends, read mail, news, ftp, etc...  I was thinking of either
 setting UUCP or ARA to answer the phone.  Friends could call, 
 leave mail and the homework files, right?  Another little added
 plus to UUCP is that my parents could call from their 486 and
 leave mail.  I wouldn't want to use UUCP for internet mail or
 news because I don't have the HD space, and the U doesn't like
 to send us UUCP.  Two questions:  Which is the better setup?
 What programs would be good?  UUCP 3.0 (beta?)  PC version?
 
 Of course, I could always just leave SLIP connected...mmm...
 
 Thanks in advance,
 Bret Oeltjen
 University of Minnesota
 
 p.s. sorry, one more question, is it possible to have more than
 one of these as on option, and the computer switch between?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: tigger@bach.udel.edu (David P Faust)
Subject: Drag and Drop MacBinary?
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:26:30 GMT

Is there a drag and drop macbinary utility out there? We just started using
MFS Share by intercon and want to drag our archived files on the unix server
to the mac without having to do too much work. Storing in apple double is not
really workable for us, so we are changing type and creator and using MacBinary
translation. It would be nice to have a drag and drop app for the macbinary
conversion. Thanks for any ideas,
Dave
-- 
 David Faust    | tigger@fiesta.cns.udel.edu   |   Student Consultant
 222 Ray St. B  | tigger@chopin.udel.edu       | Microcomputing Resource
 Newark, DE     | tigger@freezer.cns.udel.edu  |        Center
 19717          | dfaust@aol.com               | University of Delaware
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: gary.garrett@hyperion.lanl.gov (Gary Garrett)
Subject: Re: 14.4K bps Modems for LanRover/E
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.comm
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 15:55:59 GMT

In article <wayne-220193110203@pico.nimh.nih.gov>, wayne@helix.nih.gov
(Wayne Rasband) wrote:
> 
> We are buying an 8-port Shiva LanRover/E to use as an ARA server and need
> to buy a bunch of 14.4Kbps modems for it. I'm looking for modems that are
> reliable and well supported, but would prefer to pay no more than $400. I
> am considering the SupraFAXModem, the ZyXEL U-1496E, and the Gobal Village
> TelePort/Gold. What modems do LanRover owners on the net recommend?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> --wayne

In our organization we are using both LanRover and GatorLink ARA servers. I
originally based my ARA modem decision on an article that appeared in
MacUser. It rated various modems on their ability to discriminate signals
over phone lines of varying quality. The SupraFax modem received a good
score. I purchased the SupraFax modems and quickly found that our remote
users were complaining about not being able to make reliable connection
when on travel (local connections have not been as much of an issue). I
then tried several other modems (Intel, Global Village and Hayes) with
similiar complaints from our users on travel. I personally have conducted
numerous tests from various locations in the US. One such test in Hawaii
revealed that reliable connection was very uncertain at best. In
discussions with phone company representatives I found the wire
infrastructure to be in very poor condition.

Bottom line is that even the best modems will not work reliably with ARA
over phone lines of marginal quality.



 ...Gary Garrett
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: ctrbdo@iapa.uucp%mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu (bryan d oakley)
Subject: Re: WorldLink???
Organization: FAA / Mike Monroney Aeronautical Center
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:55:56 GMT

>>>>> On Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:35:15 GMT, eric@sad.hp.com (Eric Lucas) said:



Eric> Has anyone heard of WorldLink?  From the sound of it, it allows
Eric> users with modems to access the Internet.  Does anyone have this
Eric> program?  Any info would be greatly appreciated as I need some
Eric> way to connect my mac to the net.  My main concern would be the
Eric> usage fee, as I assume the software (which costs only $26) gives
Eric> you a limited membership, but you have to pay more later.
Eric> Thanks

Eric> Eric Lucas
Eric> Hewlett-Packard

(paraphrased from the online version of boardwatch magazine...)
Worldlink is available for both the PC and Mac.  Pricing is $19/$29
for their 'lite' service (just email) at 1200/2400 baud.  Basic
service is $29/$39 and gets you up to 50 mb of news/month in addition
to email.  There is not telnet or ftp service.

Call 1-800-638-2968 and talk to Johnny.  Intercon Systems Corporation,
950 Herndon Parkway, Suite 420, Herndon, VA 22070.

I called Johnny; he was very friendly.  He sent me a demo disk but,
alas, no local access number in Oklahoma City :-(.  If you think it's
worth the money it looks like a good deal.  From what little I saw,
the interface was very mac-like and easy to use.  It looks like an
easy way to get a news feed if you live in a major metropolitan area
and consider news worth 30 bucks or so.  Hmmmm.....

Disclaimer: I am not connected with WorldLink, nor do I subscribe to
their service.  All I have is a demo disk...

-- 
/'''  ---------------------------------------------------------------
c-OO  Instrument Approach Procedures Automation       DOT/FAA/AMI-230
   \  ---------------------------------------------------------------
  -   Bryan D. Oakley            ctrbdo%iapa@constellation.uoknor.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: lumsdaine@nd.edu (Andrew Lumsdaine)
Subject: AUFS?
Reply-To: lumsdaine@nd.edu (Andrew Lumsdaine)
Organization: University of Notre Dame
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:56:50 GMT


I just started using AUFS to share files between my mac and 
unix machines.  I often work with my mac from home, and use 
NCSA Telnet/MactTCP/MacPPP to connect from home to the unix
machine.  At work, the mac connects to localtalk and there is
a bridge somewhere to the internet.  At home, I dial up with
a modem to the unix machine which is running ppp.

Now, is there any way to set things up so that I can access unix 
files when I'm at home in the same way that I do when I'm at work?
That is, it would be very nice to have the AUFS on my desktop 
when I'm at home.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
 Andrew Lumsdaine
 Dept. Comp. Sci. & Engr.            email: Andrew.Lumsdaine@nd.edu
 353 Fitzpatrick Hall                phone: (219) 631-8716
 University of Notre Dame              fax: (219) 631-8007
 Notre Dame, IN  46556
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ogawa@sm.sony.co.jp (Masato Ogawa)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: PowerBook tuner on 7.1?
Date: 26 Jan 93 07:48:45 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Super-Micro Group, Sony Corporation, Tokyo, Japan


  I have upgrade my system to 7.1 on my PowerBook 100.
Then Should I still need PowerBook tuner in GVC PowerPort software
(for the internal PowerPort modem)?

--
==========================================================================
Masato Ogawa					Sony corp.

ogawa@sm.sony.co.jp				Tokyo, Japan
==========================================================================
Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.comm:13270 comp.sys.mac.misc:22121
From: time@ice.com (Tim Endres)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: uAccess 1.62
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 21:05:50 EST
Organization: ICE Engineering, Inc.
Reply-To: time@ice.com (Tim Endres)
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v2


In article <TRSNYDER.93Jan21152135@vf0031.mcs.drexel.edu> (comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.misc), trsnyder@mcs.drexel.edu (Bob Snyder) writes:
> (I was interested in the product; now I'm not.  If I'm going to spend $400
> for UUCP, I'll save up a little more, and get MachTen or A/UX, and do real
> UUCP, with real news/mail, etc....)

uAccess *is* "real" UUCP. Period. Better than many UNIX versions actually.
uAccess provides "real" mail and news.
uAccess is much simpler than UNIX UUCP, mail, and news.

uAccess does not give you the rest of UNIX, but please be careful
not to say that it is not "real" UUCP, mail or news, since it is.


tim endres - time@ice.com  (UUCP: heifetz!tbomb!time)

USENET - a slow moving self parody... ph
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: michel@cst02.segin.com (Michel Pollet)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:30:08 GMT
Reply-To: michel@cst02.segin.com (Michel Pollet)
Organization: Segin, Groupe Axime
Subject: Re: emacs and MacLayers

David J. Wang problem:
>I seem to be experiencing a problem using emacs and MacLayers (in layers mode).
>The problem occurs when I try to save ( C-x C-s).  My computer just hangs, and
>the only way to escape is by  a hardware break.  Has anyone else had this 
>problem.  I am using MacLayers 1.20, and the latest version of emacs.  This
>problem only occurs when I am in layers mode.                            

	That I think I may help :-) do you know of the caracters XON/XOFF ?
	when you type C-s, you freeze your terminal session. you have to
	type (C-x s y) to save in XON mode in emacs..
	If your computer is really crashed.. (mouse, menus..) I can't help.

	Michel
	
-- 
- Michel Pollet: michel@segin.com(Office), michel@trantor.fr.mugnet.org(uucp) -
- Money is the root of all evil, and man needs roots                          -
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: aggarwal@tigger.jvnc.net (Vikas Aggarwal)
Subject: Coexistence of LocalTalk and Ethernet MacTCP on Mac
Summary: Is it possible for LocalTalk + ethernet MacTCP
Keywords: MacTCP LocalTalk Network ethernet
Organization: JvNCnet
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:40:28 GMT
Originator: aggarwal@nisc.jvnc.net

My mac-II (running system 7) has an Asante Ethernet card (as well
as the Localtalk port, ofcourse :-)

The ethernet has TCP/IP hosts on it, whereas the Localtalk net
has all the other Macs, printers on it. A gatorbox also connects
between the ethernet and the localtalk.

Until now, all the Macs on the LocalTalk would connect to the TCP/IP
hosts (on the ethernet) thru the gatorbox using NCSA+MacTCP.

Now, I would like that for AppleTalk, my mac uses the LocalTalk
connection and for TCP/IP, my mac uses the ethernet directly.

That cuts down my dependence on the gatorbox entirely.

can I do this ? And if so, how would I configure my AppleTalk and my
MacTCP (I think NCSA doesn't care if the MacTCP drivers are doing their
job and properly configured) ?

(pushing my luck here).. Is there a way for the LocalTalk macs to use
my Mac as a gateway to the TCP/IP hosts also in case the gatorbox goes
down ?

lastly, can I configure my mac so that EtherTalk macs can access my
mac via the ethernet card, localtalk macs access me via the localtalk
interface and ethernet TCP/IP hosts access me via the ethernet all
at the same time ?


Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: pfeiffer@netcom.com (Kevin Pfeiffer)
Subject: Re: WorldLink???
Organization: Pfeiffer Design Assoc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 02:39:59 GMT

Eric Lucas (eric@sad.hp.com) wrote:

: Has anyone heard of WorldLink?  From the sound of it, it allows users with
: modems to access the Internet.  Does anyone have this program?

	The WorldLink I tried used batch processing, transfering mail
read/written offline and used a custom-type ftp via mail function that was
quite nice (if you typed _every_ character correctly); but the service was
expensive--about $30/month for 9600 access. Also the Mac software was very
poorly written (as of Dec.) although it did essentially work.

	For that $26 or so, you do (or I did) get the first month's service
free. It did not do telnet.
 
-- 
     * Kevin Pfeiffer     <pfeiffer@netcom.com>     Pasadena, California * 
Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.comm:13424 comp.sys.mac.hardware:26892
From: dtomack@mv.us.adobe.com (Darin Tomack)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.hardware,comp.dcomm.modems
Subject: REQUEST: User testimonials from Teleport Gold owners
Keywords: 14.4, modem, Global Village, TelePort, Gold
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:59:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: adobe.1993Jan25.205920.13387
Reply-To: dtomack@mv.us.adobe.com (Darin Tomack)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

I'd appreciate it if you could drop me a note sharing your thoughts/feelings  
about the Teleport Gold modem.  Earlier this month I posted asking in general  
about 14.4 modems.  I got almost no responses from anyone using the Teleport  
Gold.  

I've been sent one of GV's special offer cards for their Gold modem.  I was  
tempted to jump at the chance, but then I've seen a lot of negative comments  
about other modems on these groups.  I'd like to hear both the good and bad  
things people have found with this modem.  Has anyone had trouble with it with  
noisy lines, etc...

Thanks,

darin

P.S.  Email repliese prefered... I am willing to send out or post a summary if  
anyone is interested.

--
Darin Tomack       dtomack@mv.us.adobe.com       ...!{sun,decwrl}!adobe!dtomack
"...And then the alien anthropologists/Admitted they were still perplexed/
But on eliminating every other reason/For our sad demise/They logged the
only explanation left/This species has amused itself to death"     -- Roger  
Waters
From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Re: pocket modem recommendations?
Date: 25 Jan 93 13:01:37 EDT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <1993Jan24.224032.17056@netcom.com>, rhn@netcom.com (Ron Nicholson) writes:
> Can anyone recommend an external pocket modem for a Macintosh powerbook.
> I'm looking for a 9600 data/9600 fax modem that I can use both with the
> powerbook while traveling and with a desktop Mac.

How about a 14,400 bps modem? 

At MacWorld, Hayes was showing the Optima 144 Pocket Edition. This is a 
14,400 bps data and FAX modem about the size of a packet of cigarettes.

You can use it on your desktop with the AC power transformer, or take it on
the road and use either the AC or the battery pack. The battery pack uses
4 AA cells and can power the modem for about 2 hours. 

Available in March '93. Retail price $629, dealers will of course, discount
below that.

Does this help?

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
Principal Software Engineer        ! Packet Radio: AA4LR @ W4QO
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc. ! UUCP: uunet!hayes!bcoleman
POB 105203 Atlanta, GA 30348 USA   ! Internet: bcoleman%hayes@uunet.uu.net
Disclaimer: "My employer doesn't pay me to have opinions."
Quote: "The same light shines on vineyards that makes deserts." -Steve Hackett.
From: todd.strauch@med.umich.edu (Todd R Strauch)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
Subject: Re: TCP connection via ARA? Possible?
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.comm
Date: 27 Jan 1993 11:57:25 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan Medical School
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.214.40.110

In article <brian_vickers-260193151226@137.79.110.112>,
brian_vickers@isd.jpl.nasa.gov (Brian Vickers) wrote:
> 
> I'm trying to connect a remote Macintosh to an EtherNet network via an ARA
> connection. Not that difficult, just dial in, right? The problem is that I
> need to run MacTCP applications from the remote Mac.
> 
> Has anyone done this? Is it possible?
> 
It's possible.  Find yourself a zone that contains a Shiva FastPath or
other such device.  Within MacTCP, set your LocalTalk zone to the zone with
the FastPath.  If the FastPath has some available IP addresses it can
dynamically assign, you're all set.  Just launch your IP applications. 
MacTCP will attach to the FastPath and obtain the required IP address on
the fly.

Todd R. Strauch
University of Michigan Medical School
Ann Arbor, Michigan
todd.r.strauch@med.umich.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: fisher@ncselxsi.uucp (Chuck Fisher)
Subject: Re: Powerbook Modems
Organization: National Computer Systems, San Jose, CA 95131
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:23:07 GMT

In article <1993Jan18.181000.1257@mobil.com> winney@dal.mobil.com (Randy Winney) writes:
>In article <1993Jan17.173102.10880@ncselxsi.uucp>, fisher@ncselxsi.uucp (Chuck Fisher) writes:
>|> I bought an APS PowerModem 4 a couple of weeks ago.  I'm using it
>
>Is this the one that includes OCR software so you can translate your
>fax into text? 


No.  The APS bundle includes FAXstf and *no* OCR technology.  However,
PSI Integration, the modem's manufacturer, is working on a new software
product called Faxilation which *does* include OCR.  This should be
available by the end of this quarter.

-- 
Chuck Fisher                                        (800) 359-7997 Work
ncselxsi system administrator                       (415) 964-2819 Home
uucp:  ...!netcom!ncselxsi!fisher
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.programmer
From: d88-jwa@hemul.nada.kth.se (Jon Wtte)
Subject: Re: rpc on macs?
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:04:36 GMT

In <1993Jan25.193606.268@proximus.north.de> gemoe@proximus.north.de (Gerhard Moeller) writes:

>and  a NeXT.  We have  to use  a  fast and  reliable protocol,  probably
>TCP/IP. (UDP is not reliable enough, Appletalk too slow and only local).

I wish people would stop saying that!

AppleTalk Phase 2 is NOT slow. It's no slower than TCP/IP, and
the ZIP and MBP are great for not having network management
headaches! TCP/IP can't be expected to be driven by users
knowing nothing about routing or network configuration...

Besides, AppleTalk is not "only local," it can be zoned as any
other internetwork protocol, and can be tunelled through TCP/IP
or X.25 or whatever.

However, I'm not sure if NeXTs speak AppleTalk with their
EtherNet cards.

Now, if you meant LocalTalk (i.e. the physical cabling connecting
to the serial port) I'm all with you that wasn't the discussion,
right?

Cheers,

						/ h+
-- 
 -- Jon W{tte, h+@nada.kth.se, Mac Hacker Deluxe --
   This signature is kept shorter than 4 lines in the interests of UseNet
   S/N ratio.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: flog@open.ch (Florian Gutzwiller)
Subject: Unix LPR?
Reply-To: Florian.Gutzwiller@open.ch
Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:42:39 GMT

Are there decent implementations of Unix Berkeley LPR based on MacTCP that  
would make remote unix post script printers appear in the macintosh chooser?

Thanks

-Florian

--
Florian Gutzwiller		Tel: +41 61 262 05 10, Fax: +41 61 262 05 10
Open Systems AG, Basel		flog@Open.CH
Switzerland			S=gutzwiller;O=open;P=EUnet=A=EUnet;C=CH
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: dbasinge@ucs.indiana.edu (Mike Basinger)
Subject: Newswatcher problem
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.comm
Organization: School of HPER, Indiana University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:41:12 GMT

I'm using Newswatcher 1.3d6. I really like the program, but the send/get
Group List from host only works one out of five times I try. 

I get the following message.

A server error occured
425 Can't build data connection. Can't assign requested address.

Thanks for any info,
Mike
--
Mike Basinger: Not speaking for Indiana University, or the School of HPER
Computer Scecialist     dbasinge@ucs.indiana.edu
School of HPER          dbasinge@arapahoe.ucs.indiana.edu (NeXT Mail)
Phone: (812) 855-1562   Fax: (812) 855-4983
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm
From: Ben Burch <Burch_Ben@wes.mot.com>
Subject: Re: White Knight and Hermes BBS Problems
Organization: Motorola, Inc.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 22:41:58 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d16
X-Xxdate: Fri, 22 Jan 93 10:41:21 GMT

In article <1505@shrike.com> p653663, p653663@austin.lockheed.com writes:
> Hermes BBS using zmodem at speeds greater than 9600. I have

I would suspect (based on having run a Hermes system for some time) that
you have a flow control problem.  This problem could be on the Hermes
end or on the WK end.  With high speed modems, ONLY hardware flow control
gives acceptable results.  No amount of fiddling with software (XON/XOFF)
flow control will avail you.  Belive me, I tried.  The reason this is so
is that XON and XOFF can be valid characters in any binary transfer.
High speed modems have buffering for compression, and throughput is
variable, and so they must be able to say "Hey!  My buffer is full!
hold off!"

-Ben Burch
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.protocols.appletalk