HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Edward M. Averett)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Mathematical  Magick
Date: 14 Aug 92 23:25:30 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

In article <7490@monmouth.edu> c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON) writes:
>In article <msmuga.713167039@vega> msmuga@vega.math.ualberta.ca (M. Smuga-Otto) writes:
>> Has anybody heard of or practiced MATHEMATICAL magic?
>
>	I seem to remember hearing of something in the writings of Pythagoras.

Gosh, if Combinatorial Mathematics, Type-Free grammars, Recursive Theorems, 
and Computation Theory aren't magick, I don't know what is, and I mean that.

					-eddie@legba.oit.unc.edu
From: donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Is Magick worth the effort??
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 21:10:54 CDT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

grimoire@byron.u.washington.edu (John Greer) writes:

> ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:
> 
> >this.  If there is anyone out there who started studying any form of magic
> >before experiencing any sort of phenomena, please tell us about it.  I would
> 
> Um.  Well.  (An uncertain hand rises.)
> My own involvement with magic began in a way I don't normally admit to.  As
> a child of about 10, I ran into J.R.R. Tolkien's books, fell in, and didn't
> emerge for the better part of a decade.  Ever met the kind of teenage 
> mutant Tolkien fan who can write fluent Elvish and knows the kings of
> Gondor backwards and forwards?  Yeah.  In my own defense, it was one of 
> the few resources available to a bookworm with no social skills who wanted,
> oddly enough, to survive a suburban public school childhood.

I have to speak up. I too was one of those 'mutant tolkein fans' that could
write fluent Quenya in the Tengwar alphabet. I also had some use for the
Angertha's (i deciphered the inscriptions on the doors of Moria, etc). My
uncle, who to this day goes by the craft name of Fiannor, speaks fluent 
Sylvan. There are more of us in the world, you don't have to be alone! :D
         Namarie!
         

--------------------
Donal, Sysop of The Brewer's Witch BBS -- +1 713 272 7350
(Internet) donal@brewich.hou.tx.us  (Work) bill%pssi@lobster.hou.tx.us
(CIS) 76460,1443 
(SCA) Ld. Donal Dubh, IC of Dun Bruddair, B of the Stargate, K of Ansteorra
From: cward@Think.COM (Christopher)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Unity
Date: 22 Aug 1992 23:03:37 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: godot.think.com

In article <Gerald_Del_Campo.0087@sorinc.UUCP>, Gerald_Del_Campo@sorinc.UUCP (Gerald Del Campo) writes:
|> Why do the personalities of the men have to enter into the equation?  I
|> consider the teachings of the Bible to be quite warped, and certainly worth
|> questioning.  You seem to subscribe to the idea that a person needws to be
|> perfect to bring a perfect principle to light.  This is very Xtian outlook.
|> Crowley was just a man, as was freud, and Jesus, etc.  Why do you expect
|> them to be any less warped than any other man.

I almost didn't respond to this since it does not appear to be asking a 
questions but just a subtle (or not so subtle) christian-bashing post.  I'll
give you the benefit of the doubt but for the record, I take usage of the
term "xtian" as derisive and find people who use it are generally talking
from their genitals not their intellect.

No I don't think every author has to be perfect.  Some, like Freud and Crowley,
had some serious personal problems that not only colored their writings but
both men seemed quite blind to their deviations.  Few men are insightful 
enough, say like Jung, to admit their biases up front.  Now Jung, didn't air
all his dirty laundry and not all of it came out in his later writings.  Still,
it seems his self-delusions are more paletable (to me) and detract less from
his work as a whole.  In rewriting someone else's idea's one tends to smooth
the hills and fill the valleys a bit more.

Also, Crowley wasn't a very good writer.  Expression of ideas in print is a
talent (not one I can claim myself!) and other authors with this talent have
come along and reworked things at least into a form more understandable by me.
They have taken "Crowley's truth" and filtered out a good portion of the
Crowley to get at the truth.

|>  C> In a highly personal and subjective field like psychology or magic(k),
|>  C> the personalities of the writers play a much more important role than
|>  C> in more rigorous fields like physics.
|> 
|> Why?

Because it's personal.  A book on what is good art by some neo-nazi, skinhead,
cubist might not be the one I want to learn to paint from.  The author's point
of view may be so diametrically opposed to mine that I find the book offensive
yet the guy in art class next to me can't get enough.  Such is art!
 
|> You would be surprised how much of these "new works" are simply
|> regurgitated works of Crowley.

No, I wouldn't.  In fact, strict regurgitations are almost worse.  The ones
which filter and enhance are the keepers.

-Christopher
From: dart@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dart the Witchling)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Duel?
Date: 20 Aug 92 09:01:27 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1992Aug19.145626.3173@engage.pko.dec.com> stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) writes:
0You're not a whole lot of fun, are you? :-)
0How about this.... 
0A prank (staged by Act Up but no one finds out who the perpetrator was until
0they announce it later) during Bush's final speech.  
0Lets see....  what would be a good joke?  How about if they arrange to have
0hundreds of live chickens let loose in the stadium?  
0Pandemonium .... chaos... the Republicans blaming the Democrats... the
0Democrats accusing the Republicans of staging it... it's great.. I love it..
0... Lords of Chaos.. indulge me in this little prank...
0.... the gather together grim and determined... under coats and in bags they
0plan their fowl deed.... no clucking is heard above the roar of the right
0wing at play.... come forces of chaos and join in our laughter... 
0Let the games begin....

	Try flourescent Chickens.
	I saw some at this amusement park called something Geiselwind in
germany once.
	Then add some loose, wild baboons.
	Then a rocketship.
	Then a car full of eels.
	Half a mile of goats,
	And a big pink train!
From: amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Mini book review: Kaplan's "Bahir" & "Meditations on the Tarot"
Date: 21 Aug 92 10:50:12 GMT

Thanks to the recent opening of a Real(tm) Bookstore in the area (Borders 
Bookshop in Tysons Corner, VA), I've started adding to my esoterica bookshelf 
again.  Among my latest acquisitions have been Aryeh Kaplan's translation of 
and commentary on the Bahir, and an anonymous book called "Meditations on the 
Tarot--an Introduction to Christian Hermeticism."  Both are very good.

Since I already had read Kaplan's book on the Sefer Yetzirah, I was prepared 
for a masterful treatment of the Bahir, and was not disappointed.  In 
particular, I came away from reading it with a much improved conception of 
the Qlippoth and their nature and function.  I still wouldn't feel 
comfortable working with them just yet :), but they make a lot more sense now.

Meditations on the Tarot is remarkable.  Not only is it written from a 
mystical Christian point of view (which is my "home framework"), it brings in 
quite a lot of material from other sources, including the Kabbalah, Sufism, 
and so on.  I strongly recommend it to anyone who is working with the Tarot 
or Hermeticism in general, including people who think that "Christian Magick" 
is a contradiction in terms.  This book may surprise you...


Peace,

Amanda Walker

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: grimoire@byron.u.washington.edu (John Greer)
Subject: Pythagoras (Was: Re: Intellectual involvement in Magick)
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 23:25:16 GMT

In article <7490@monmouth.edu> c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON) writes:
>In article <msmuga.713167039@vega> msmuga@vega.math.ualberta.ca (M. Smuga-Otto) writes:
>>
>> Incidentally:
>> Has anybody heard of or practiced MATHEMATICAL magic?
>> (this would not necessarily be the same as numerology- it would rather
>> be a mystical union of the subject with a particularily arcane mathematical
>> theory...)
>>
>>						-Mike Smuga-Otto
>>						humble student.
>
>	I seem to remember hearing of something in the writings of Pythagoras.
>I couldn't give you any real references, though, as I've never even SEEN 'em,
>much less read 'em.


Some books to start with might be Thomas Taylor's _Theoretical Arithmetic 
of the Pythagoreans_ and Kenneth Sylvan Guthrie's _Pythagorean Sourcebook
and Library_.  I believe they're both currently in print.

Fair warning, though; Pythagoras' mathematics are mystical in focus rather
than magical. They might be a good starting place for what you've 
suggested, but they'll take a lot of converting...

On related matters, you might want to pick up Robert Lawlor's _Sacred
Geometry: Principles and Practice_; it has some good workbook sections
on the uses of esoteric geometry.

-- John Michael Greer
From: cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Liber XLIV - The Mass of the Phoenix
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:12:15 EDT

Hello,

ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes, in response to the
posting of Liber XLIV...

>I tend to refer to this ritual as "Crowley channels Dr. Suess".  I guess the
>point of the bad verse is to see if the practitioner can retain enough control
>to say this whole thing without laughing.  And my flatmate cringes at the
>thought of people actually rubbing bread in an open wound.  Having lots of
>nurses in his family, he is well trained in sanitation and health.
>"Gangrene, anyone?" :-)

Ha ha ha!  I couldn't even *read* it without cringing.  Definitely below
par for Crowley.  I hope the rest of his poetry is better if he compared
himself to Yeats.

By the way, to whomever is posting the rituals:  Keep'm coming!!  With
only 2 Thelemic books on my shelf, the footnotes help!  (SELFISH HINT:
If you want to post rituals, post ones *not* in _Magick_in_Theory_and_
Practice_, since that is the book most Thelema-literates around here
seem to have close at hand.  I'd like to see Libers NU and HAD, from
'Gems from the Equinox' with some explanatory footnotes)  Thanks!
____________________________________________________________________________
   "Hold your fire -- Keep it burning bright..."

                                  Steve Cranmer
                                  cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark Peterson)
Subject: Re: Duel?
Originator: hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Reply-To: hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:07:37 GMT

From article <83950129@otter.hpl.hp.com>, by cal@otter.hpl.hp.com (Colin Low):

>>being Colin Low ...
> 
> My magical powers are limited to making the Sun rise every morning.
> Traditional, not very chaotic, but a lot of job satisfaction.


Making the sun rise in *Europe*, you mean.  -)



hiho
-- 
mark ce peterson   | uw-washington county  | hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu 
dept of philosophy | west bend, wi.  53095 | (414) 335-5200        

     The shorter the tether, the sooner the goat starves.
From: shaman@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (David Melton)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Duel?
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:24:03 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center


     You gentlemen have been reading too much Lackey and Zelazny.  
'nuff said.

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com 
Subject: Re: Duel?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:22:21 GMT


In article <57246@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, shaman@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (David Melton) writes...
> 
>     You gentlemen have been reading too much Lackey and Zelazny.  
>'nuff said.

Ohhhhh  ... a   s e r i o u s   magickian...  they're no more fun than the
scientists...
From: knightster+@CMU.EDU (Shawn Clayton Knight)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Duel?
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:14:54 GMT
	<16tipoINNqqr@early-bird.think.com>
Organization: Freshman, Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

>Oops, I forgot you're a chaos magician, right?  So, I'll walk the pattern
>and you can call up the Logris and reach into Shadow for whatever you like.
> 
>BTW: :-)

As netnews.rec.humor.funny immediately follows netnews.alt.magick in my
morning mail list, I suppose I'll continue this smiley thing. :)

Do NOT, oh True Believer, mess with the Logrus!  or I shall use the
Necronomicon to raise that Most Ancient Sage of Kabbalistic Might and
Pow'r to claim thy Immortal Soul as Food for the Lilim ... that Sage
being Colin Low ... :) :) :)

-shawn
No, I'm not on drugs, except endorphins.
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: rjb@milton.u.washington.edu (LeGrand Cinq-Mars)
Subject: Re: Neurolinguistic Programming (NLP)
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 06:06:36 GMT

Amanda Walker observes

And so, as I see it, the artful use of language and nonverbal communication
that (to my mind) should be part of any literate person's education (formal
or otherwise) gets packaged up as "NLP;" Pathworking and mental rehearsal get
packaged up as "SyberVision;" Introductory contemplative techniques get
packaged up as "TM;" and so on.  In the process of this packaging, a lot of
hype gets added into the mix.


It should be.  Unfortunately, however, it often isn't.  It's less a 
stupidity tax than a remedial education surcharge.

--LeGrand
From: jbs@korova.uucp (jacques)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Uncle Aleister
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 01:37:59 CDT
Organization: VHF void tube of the mind (713) 492-2783

And speaking of the old boy's legacy...the new CD by the band Ministry is 
called KEPHALH (XI)(TH) (pardon the spelling errors!) and includes a 
wacky cut entitled Psalm 69, which ends with the spoken line "The way to 
succeed...and the way to suck eggs." I think he would have wanted it this 
way.

Also included is the fine "Jesus Built My Hotrod."

EVOE! YEE-HAW!

--
              VHF void tube of the mind (713) 492-2783
        "where you can find the Zeta Greys SAFEWAYING themselves
                into the WONDERBREAD *heart* of America!"
Organization: Senior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:54:14 -0400 
From: Nanci Ann Miller <nm0w+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Benign magic spells (empathy?)
	<57354@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>

mcmorris@vet.vet.purdue.edu (brandywine) writes:
> Before a person wishes that kind of stress and pain on another person,
> they should try it themselves.  Be empathic without barriers for a day,
> and you will understand what I mean. Better yet, try a shopping mall
> or a Guns and Roses concert and pick up the feelings there without
> barriers or emotional protection.
> 
> But take a friend so they can pick up the pieces you fall into.
> 
> -brandywine

Out of curiousity, how?  How does one take down the empathic "barriers"
that block others' feelings?

Nanci


A mind is a terrible thing to waste someone with.
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Unity
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 16:23:41 GMT

eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Edward M. Averett) writes:

>There's been some criticism of the use of the newsgroup in using Mr. 
>Aleister Crow-ley's book Magic In Theory and Practice as a basis for 
>terminology and discussion here.  Well. it IS alt.magick.  Not alt.shamanism
>or alt.pagan or alt.taoist sorcery.  In addition, Mr Crow-ley is certainly

Well, I would prefer to have it called alt.magic, but that is already taken.
I think it is useful to have a forum for all of the various magics, rather than
trying to draw hard and fast lines.  I am reminded of rec.arts.sf.*, which 
decided to define sf as speculative fiction because there was no clear line
between science fiction and fantasy.  I think we accept a.m as including
anything magical, rather than trying to create a dozen different groups, and
having people crosspost for miles.  alt.pagan is different, in that it is
focussed on religion/spirituality, rather than magic.  I occasionally mention
magic there, but only occasionally.  And I try to avoid mentioning religion
here.

              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)
From: Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: I Ching and Magick Squares (Errata)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 10:13:13 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

To 'Illustration C.'

Note that in the 'I Ching Magick Square' the number '2' which is NOT
in the bottom right corner is supposed to be a '21'.  Please email
me if you find any other such typos.  Thanks.

Tagi (Nigris)
From: dart@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Dartanyan the Witchling)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: "do[ing] stuff" (was Re: Is Magick worth the effort??)
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:37:16 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1992Aug12.202148.11042@PA.dec.com> dantonio@flashy.tay2.dec.com writes:
>How does BT (Bell's Theorem) cause phrases like 'cause and effect' to
>become questionable? What it DOES do it call into question Einstein's
>'No information can be transfered faster than the speed of Light'
>statement.

		Just a note, i heard that they have managed to transfer 
information at 1.5 times the speed of light.  Something about turning a carrier
wave sideways.  I'll try to get the rest of the information from the person
who related this info to me.

						D
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:53:01 -0400 
From: Alex Feely <af2e+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Help

Hello,

Belive it or not, I'm am a 14 year old tarot reader/rune reader/soon to
be magick user.   I would like some info on what type of magick to use.

                                                                        
              Sincerely,
                                                                        
     Alex Feely
From: Gerald_Del_Campo@sorinc.UUCP (Gerald Del Campo)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Another Crowley question
Distribution: world
Date: 11 Aug 92 23:04:02 PDT
Organization: Shades of Reality BBS - Medford, Oregon

In a message dated Tue 11 Aug 92  5:10, ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A.
Davis-Howe) wrote:

 BD> I don't fear Crowley or his descendents--I just disagree with them a
lot.  BD> Before making further comments, how about reading some of his
stuff.
 BD> Either that or just don't comment on him.  He is not the only source
of
 BD> information on magick, even of Ceremonial magic.  Ignoring his is a
 BD> perfectly reasonable response.  Making patently false accusations is
not.

 BD>               Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
 BD>                                Br'anArthur

 BD> Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

This post has Thelemic overtones, and I mean that in the most respectful
manner.  I wonder if you could define "Thelemite" for us so that we can
better understand one another?  :)

Love is the Law.
Gerald

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: friday@netcom.com (Carol Anne Ogdin)
Subject: Re: Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 05:37:25 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

I have a rather longish (162 line) response to Amanda Walker which
follows, separately; you may elect to skip it or read it, at your
option.
-- 
---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---
    - Friday -                   "If a miracle happens in your vicinity--
      friday@well.sf.ca.us                            take credit for it!"
      (Carol Anne Ogdin)
From: cigp07@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Liber XXXVI - The Star Sapphire
Date: 18 Aug 92 09:47:16 GMT
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster

LIBER XXXVI - The Star Sapphire

Let the Adept be armed with his Magick Rood ( and provided with his Mystic
Rose (1)).

In the center(2), let him give the L.V.X. signs(3); or if he knows them, if he
will and dare do them, and can keep silent about them, the signs of N.O.X.
being the signs of Puer, Vir, Puella, Mulier(4). Omit the sign I.R.(5)

Then let him advance to the East and make the Holy Hexagram(6), saying: Pater
et Mater unus deus Ararita.(8)

Let him go round to the South, make the Holy Hexagram and say: Filius et Filia
unus deus Ararita.(9)

Let him go round to the North, make the Holy Hexagram and then say: Filia et
Pater unus deus Ararita.(10)

Let him then return to the Centre, and so to The Centre of All ( making the 
Rosy Cross as he may know how ) saying Ararita Ararita Ararita.(11)
(In this the Signs shall be those of Set Triumphant and of Baphomet. Also 
shall Set appear in the Circle. Let him drink of the Sacrament and let him
communicate the same.(12)) Then let him say: Omnia i Duos: Duo in Unum: Unus 
in Nihil: Haec nec Quatuor nec Omnia nec Duo nec Unus nec Nihil Sunt(13).

Gloria Patri et Marti et filiae et Spiritui Sancto externo et Spritui Sancto
interno ut erat est erit in saecula Saeculorum sex in uno per nomen Septem
in uno Ararita.(14)

Let him then repeat the signs of L.V.X. but not the signs of N.O.X.: for it 
is not he that shall arise in the Sign of Isis Rejoicing.

NOTES:

1) The Magick Rood is the Rod or Wand of the Magician, in this context the
   erect penis. The Mystic Rose is the Holy Graal or Cup of the Priestess, ie,
   her vagina.
2) Of the circle.
3) See plate 3 - refers to a page in Magick, A.Crowley ( Guild 1989 )
4) Boy, Girl, Man, Woman. The signs of NOX are given in Liber V vel Reguli
5) Isis Rejoicing
6) See page 454 - again refers to Magick, A.Crowley ( Guild 1989 ) Copies of
   this operation can be found in many other places though, eg, Golden Dawn
   papers et al.
7) Father and Mother one god Ararita
8) Mother and Son one god Ararita
9) Son and Daughter one god Ararita
10) Daughter and Father one god Ararita
11) Ararita is a notariqon of a sentence in Hebrew, meaning 'One is His
    beginning: One is His Individuality: His permutation is One'
12) Set is triumphant over Horus, ie, the Horus force is expended in the Cup.
    It is consumed as a Sacrament.
13) All in Two: Two in One: One in Nothingness: These are neither Four nor All
    nor Two nor One nor Nothing.
14) Glory be to the Father and to the Mother and to the Son and to the Daughter
    and to the Holy Spirit without and within, which was, is, and shall be,
    world without end. Six in One through the names of Seven in One, Ararita.
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     *            	V.
                        cigp07@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
 *	 *              acarty@cs.strath.ac.uk

   *   *		"Convictions cause convicts"

What is real??                           - Principia Discordia