HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.railroad

In rec.railroad, x92ochs1@gw.wmich.edu writes:

> In article <lfipggINNahd@news.bbn.com>, rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman) writes:
> > Seriously....
> > 
> > how did the National Rail Passenger Corporation ever
> > get the name "Amtrak" anyway?
> > 
> > -- 
> > Ron Newman		rnewman@bbn.com
> 
> "Amtrak" is a short version of "Americans on track."
>                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                 Isn't this sort of dangerous?
 
 
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
o                                          i---i_________________      o
o    Warren T. Brill, a.k.a.          *----|[|]|  #### #### #### |*    o
o    wbrill@hpxxx.fc.hp.com         i_|___/|___|\________________|_i   o
o    wbrill@hpfcso.fc.hp.com       =++()=()=() `========' ()=()=()++=  o
o                                  =================================== o
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: L.Chisholm@massey.ac.nz (Len Chisholm)
Subject: The New Zealand Vauclain compound Mallet tank loco
Followup-To: rec.railroad
Summary: E66 , a 2-6-6-0 Vauclain compound Mallet tank loco from New Zealand
Keywords: compound mallet
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 04:55:10 GMT

As nobody else from New Zealand has said anything about the NZ 
compound Mallet, I have extracted some information from the book 
"A Line of Railway" ( W.N.Cameron , ISBN 0-908573 -00-6 ) which 
is about the Rimutaka Incline ( a Fell-system incline operating 
at gradients as steep as 1 in 15 for 2.5 miles ).

This locomotive, a 2-6-6-0T prototype numbered "E"66 was 
constructed in an attempt to provide motive power without needing 
the centre-rail equipment of the existing locomotives. Two spare 
pairs of Vauclain compound cylinders intended for 2-6-2 
locomotives and spare wheels from 0-6-0 locomotives were used. 
The LP cylinders were placed above the HP cylinders and were 
actuated by Stephenson link motion. The cylinders were placed at 
the outer ends of the wheelsets i.e. under the smoke-box and cab. 
The exhaust from the rear cylinders was fed up an auxiliary 
funnel through the rear of the cab. There was a Vanderbilt boiler 
with a Morrison suspension-tube combustion chamber. The weight in 
service order was 65.8 tons , with 61 tons available for 
adhesion. It was completed in 1906.

The locomotive , although it attained the design performance , 
was not popular. The heat in the cab was excruciating, as the 
Morrison furnace did not have a water jacket at the back 
( although there was asbestos insulation ), and there was also 
heat from the rear exhaust. The fireman was provided with a 
leather apron and leather leg pads to attempt to lessen the heat; 
the crew could be blistered if they touched the coal-bunker 
opposite the fire-box. There was very little air supply to the 
crew in the tunnels on the Incline.
The boiler proved to be a poor steamer and with poor water 
circulation unequal expansion caused leakages at riveted joints. 
Mechanical problems dogged the loco thoughout its life.

"E"66 was transferred to banking duties on a 1 in 40 grade in 
1910 , and was written off in 1917.

"E"66 was generally known as "Pearson's Dream" after the 
designer.

( New Zealand also had 3 unsuccessful 4-6-2+2-6-4 6-cylinder 
  Garratt locos with Gresley conjugated motion which were broken
  up into 6 unsuccessful Pacifics )

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  LEN CHISHOLM , Systems programmer  | EMail: L.Chisholm@massey.ac.nz  |
| Department of Production Technology | Phone: +64 6 3505262            |
|         Massey University           | FAX:   +64 6 3505604            |
|   Palmerston North, New Zealand     |                                 |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cs90nrs@brunel.ac.uk (Nicholas R Swift)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: SNCF in UK
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:03:06 GMT
Organization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Loren I. Petrich (lip@s1.gov) wrote:
: In article <1992Nov6.174914.8338@bcrka451.bnr.ca> dewi@bnr.ca (Dewi Williams) writes:
: 
: >Can anybody comment on the rumour that SNCF (French National Rlys)
: >are proposing to purchase the London-Edinburgh line when the latter
: >gets privatized?
: 
: 	I haven't heard of _that_ one, but that would be politically
: embarrassing, something like the Japanese acquisition of some major
: American company.
: 
: 	But on the plus side, mayby they'll run TGV's.

The last I heard, a question was asked in the House of Commons and the
Minister for Transport denied that any enquiries had been made by SNCF.

SNCF will, of course, be involved in the UK because of European Passenger
Services, a company owned jointly by BR and SNCF to run trains to/from UK
and the rest of Europe via the Channel Tunnel.

As far as TGVs go - I'd rather have a 91 + Mk 4s any day. (There's more leg
room!)

Nick, cs90nrs@brunel.ac.uk

.sigless
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Subject: Re: compound locos (was Re: High Speed Rail Query)
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:47:08 GMT

CONDENSING LOCOMOTIVES

Locomotives with condensing tenders were used in some 
arid regions to reuse precious water.  Probably the
most famous were 42" guage engines of the South African
Railways.  I believe that most were 4-8-2s, though they
condensers may have been used on other classes as well.

I cannot check here at work (disclaimer!) but I seem to
remember reading that the C&O's ill-fated Chessie
turbines were fitted with condensers.  Also the never-
built ACE engine was to have had condensers.

~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Subject: Re: _Discover_ Magazine: "Personal Rail Transit"
Organization: LLNL
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:10:18 GMT

	[Correction to error: It is the _December_ 1992 issue, the one
with a Komodo Dragon on its cover]

In article <7861@skye.ed.ac.uk> ken@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Ken Johnson) writes:
>
>In article <1992Nov4.010141.23624@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I.  Petrich)
>writes:

$  	A plus of this system is that it would be convenient for
$  low-density areas like a lot of suburbia where it is difficult to run
$  frequent transit service.

>This system has not evolved anywhere, though.

	At least not with on-demand service like a taxi.

Remember that most of the
>cost of such a system would be the cost of the track.

	The inventor of this system _has_ addressed this question. He
expects the cars to be _very_ light, and not to need much strength in
the tracks.

Once you have the
>track erected, you might as well run scheduled services on it.

	But that would not be as convenient as on-demand service if
the headways are big.

If
>vehicles on the proposed system are privately owned, you will get all
>the problems of `transport deprivation' associated with cars.  If
>publicly owned, I would guess that one hundred three-seater vehicles
>would cost more than one 300-seater train, and would suffer far more
>serious congestion at junctions. 

	But not if the system is very spread out, with several
possible routes. Part of the design is that the central computer can
recognize congested spots and redirect cars around them.

	Junction congestion? That _might_ be resolved by having tracks
at different heights, so as to resolve the intersection problem. What
do you think freeways are? Switching _might_ be a problem, however.

	Vehicle cost? It would be spread out between several users,
since each one would make several trips in a day.

$   And the elevated tracks necessary ... 

>Why are elevated tracks necessary? Why not fix some high-tech to
>conventional ground level track?

	The elevated track is so that a driverless system can work at
the present level of AI -- no heavy-duty visual recognition needed.
From: brianrh@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Brian R Hutchison)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Sacramento/SFO happenings?
Date: 5 Nov 92 00:45:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpmwwav7.12460011
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD MWTD)

The hobby shop in Roseville is called Railroad Hobbies(Address in MR). They
have a  pretty good selection and discount prices(Not as discounted as Train
Shop in Santa Clara).  They should have a good selection this weekend as 
Railfair is going on at the Fairgrounds on Nov 14 & 15 and they get a lot of
traffic from it. Don't forget driving by Roseville yard. Also the Portola 
museum offers rent-a-loco for ~$75/hr on their balloon track. Just hope we
aren't in the middle of another early Sierra storm then.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: Prime Mover Software Development <U93_PTUPACZE@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU>
Subject: Old Railway Age?
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Organization: Indiana University
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:18:48 GMT
X-Vms-To: IN%"rec.railroad@silver.ucs.indiana.edu"

I'm just trying to see what the interest would be in reprints of Railway Age 
magazine, circa 1940's-1950's.  A friend of mine has a collection and was 
thinking of reprinting them if people would want them... any takers?

    - Paul Tupaczewski
      Stevens Tech
      Hoboken, NJ
      u93_ptupacze@vaxa.stevens-tech.edu
From: hammondr@sunroof.crd.ge.com (Richard A Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: compound locos (was Re: High Speed Rail Query)
Date: 11 Nov 92 15:05:02 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: GE Corp. Research & Development, Schenectady, NY

In article <1992Nov10.151902.24966@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> johna@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (john.a.welsh) writes:
 ...
>The original topic seems to be compounds.  Compound locomotives
>seemed to be victims of their own complexity.  From Vauclain
>to the latest European designs 4 and 3 cylinder designs came and
>went because the cost of maintaining them exceeded their fuel and
>water savings.  It is ironic that the last steam engines built
>for road service in the USA were very simple Mallet compounds
>(C&O 2-6-6-2s and N&W 2-8-8-2s)  They were 1920s designs built
>in the 1950s

I don't have my C&O Historical Society info here at the office, but
at least for C&O I think you're 1/2way mistaken.  The C&O built the
2-6-6-2 engines in the 20's as simple articulateds, i.e. all
cylinders used high pressure steam, but the reason was the clearance
problems.  Low pressure cylinders are larger and the C&O didn't
have the clearance for them.  A blessing in disguise :-)

In the late 40's C&O built 2-6-6-6 engines, which are considerably
wider and taller than the 2-6-6-2 engines, because the clearances
had been improved.  Given the low cost of coal to the C&O and the
favorable experience with the 2-6-6-2s, it is not surprising that
the C&O stuck with simple articulateds, but the factors are not just
maintenance.  So you're correct when you claim the simple articulateds
were the last ones built, but I'm not sure the maintenance was the
major issue for the C&O.o

Cheers,
Rich Hammond
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: yves@speedy.dev.cdx.mot.com (Yves Vidal)
Subject: Steam locomotives with Condensers
Organization: Motorola Codex, Canton, MA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:25:02 GMT

Since, there is a discussion about condensers going on, 
I'd like to mention that a few countries and more specifically
South Africa are still using a lot of Steam engines with very
strange kind of features and arrangements. One of them is the 
famous condenser tender used on Niagara 4-8-4 arrangement 
locomotives. Those monsters are capable to travel long distance 
in deserts where water is hard to find or get, thanks to 
an enormous tender equipped with 3 huge fans on the top, to cool
the exhausted steam. 
For steam engines fans, South Africa is a heaven as there are 
so many of steam engines of all kinds running. 

Yves 

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: eoliver@ocs.mq.edu.au (Eddie Oliver)
Subject: what is this HO scale E8?
Originator: eoliver@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au
Organization: Macquarie University, Australia.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 02:49:38 GMT

At an auction last Saturday, I bought an HO Santa Fe E8/E9 for $25 Australian -
i.e. about $18 US. After a bit of tuning, it runs well - very smooth but
a bit noisy with the shell on (although the mechanism itself is quiet).

However, my question is - what brand is it? There are absolutely no
markings on it  re manufacturer or even country of origin.

It is an extremely solid unit - thick cast frame, very large can motor,
flywheel that makes it coast further than any other loco I've ever seen.

Rivarossi and Model Power have both marketed E8's in the past, I think,
but this looks much more solid than anything else I have seen from either of
those manufacturers. It is certainly not one of the new ConCor production,
of course.

Is it Rivarossi or Model Power, and if not, what is it?

And perhaps I should add (further to other recent debates in this group)
that although it has six axles and a very long wheelbase, it takes #4
turnouts and 18" radius curves with ease.

Eddie Oliver
From: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: ATSF CW's (865) and UP SD60M's (6365)
Date: 12 Nov 1992 00:33:03 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, FBCB@iunsys.iun.indiana.edu () says:

>New UP and ATSF cabs are now all on their respective railroads. The
>final units should have just gone through at the time of this posting.
>
>Santa Fe C40-8W's delivered on Conrail train ELSF:

>11/08 (ATSF 2832, ATSF 2343, ATSF 2727, ATSF 2351, ATSF 865)

  That must have been an interesting train to see!  For those who aren't
familiar with ATSF classes, that consist is a GP35, GP38, GP30, GP38, C40-8W,
everything but the GE is at least 20 years old!

-- 
   -----_._._,_,,_,__._._     _._.__,_,,_,_._._----      
  _Ioo I ===        ====I     I====        === IooI____   I~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~I
|_II___I____Santa Fe____I_| |_I__Evan Werkema__I__I___I_| I elw4@po.cwru.edu I
`-~O==O~===========~O==O~-`~`-~O==O~=============~O==O~-`~~o==o~\/~\/~\/~o==o~
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: fwk@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (f.w.kerfoot..iii)
Subject: Re: Mallet / Compound
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 13:50:36 GMT

From article <61813@mimsy.umd.edu>, by mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate):
> Garth Groff writes:
> 
>>Lopsided compounds with a high pressure cylinder on one side and a low
>>pressure cylinder on the other were not uncommon in the U.S.  in the late
>>19th century.  They were usually called Vulcain Cross Compounds, after Sam
>>Vulcain (sp?)  of the Baldwin Locomotive Works who pushed the design.
> 
> That's Vauclain compound, and they had a low and high pressure cylinders on
> both sides.  The high pressure cylinder and the valves were on top; the low
> pressure was on the bottom, and the crosshead and its guides were in between
> the two piston rods.  It was indeed a Baldwin design.

There were in fact two flavors of Vulcain compounds. The passenger designs
with large drivers used the arrangement mentioned above, with the high
pressure cylinders above the low pressure cylinders. On freight engines
with small drivers the large diameter of the low pressure cylinder
combined with its off center (up and down) location placed it too close
to the roadbed. For these engines the order was reversed, and the high
pressure cylinder was placed on the bottom and the low pressure cylinder
on top.

By the way, the elegance on the Vulcain design, in addition to the
shared crosshead, was a single piston valve which simultaineously
performed the required functions for both the high and the low
pressure cylinders.

Frank Kerfoot
fwk@hogpa.att.com
From: gemmellj@merrimack.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Misspelling of "Amtrak" (was Re: Metroliners)Y
Date: 8 Nov 92 19:46:30 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Merrimack College, No. Andover, MA, USA

In article <1992Nov5.191533.6177@gw.wmich.edu>, x92ochs1@gw.wmich.edu writes:
> In article <lfipggINNahd@news.bbn.com>, rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman) writes:
>> Seriously....
>> 
>> how did the National Rail Passenger Corporation ever
>> get the name "Amtrak" anyway?
>> 
>> -- 
>> Ron Newman		rnewman@bbn.com
> 
 I think I heard that a Canadian advertising agency came up with
the name AMTRACK..  If it is true then I wonder why any US agencies could
not come up w/ a name for the NPRC that was simular to the Canadian proposal.

john gemmell           gemmellj@merrimack.edu
From: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Hudson Leighton)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Hawaii Railroads (Kauai)
Date: 4 Nov 92 16:45:04 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

There are several (3?) steam engines on Kauai owned by a private owner.

They get fired up several times a year, a friend found them several yaers
ago unfortuneatly the day after steamup day, but did get to look at the 
engines.

I was diving on Kauai a few years ago and for some reason decided to check
out the anchor of a buoy, turned out to be a RR wheel that looked alot 
like a pilot truck wheel about 24" dia.

/s

UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!hudson
INET: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org
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From: dewi@bnr.ca (Dewi Williams)
Subject: SNCF in UK
Originator: dewi@bcrks78
Reply-To: dewi@bnr.ca (Dewi Williams)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ltd
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:49:14 GMT


Can anybody comment on the rumour that SNCF (French National Rlys)
are proposing to purchase the London-Edinburgh line when the latter
gets privatized?

... Dewi
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: johna@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (john.a.welsh)
Subject: Re: compound locos (was Re: High Speed Rail Query)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:19:02 GMT
Summary: More on condensers and compounds

In article <1992Nov9.175825.8605@engage.pko.dec.com>, pierson@cimcad.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson) writes:
> 	Also, boiler "water" was sometimes treated with various chemistry, to
> 	make it easier on the boiler.  Typically, this took out various nasties
> 	in the local water.  Condensate, having been boiled once, was purer, and
> 	easier on the boiler...
This idea of purer condensate made sense to me, too, until I read
a little more on the subject.  The steam may lose mineral impurities,
but it gains oil and grease.  The Germans developed a good condenser
system and an improved version of this is what the S. African 4-8-4s
used.  This system (I understand) handles this oil/grease problem
about as well as possible.  Another problem with condensing steam
locomotives is maintaining a strong draft for the fire.  It has to
be induced and the fans or turbines at either end take a lot of
physical abuse from heat and residue (oils and cinders).   That is
why condensers are so rare.
The original topic seems to be compounds.  Compound locomotives
seemed to be victims of their own complexity.  From Vauclain
to the latest European designs 4 and 3 cylinder designs came and
went because the cost of maintaining them exceeded their fuel and
water savings.  It is ironic that the last steam engines built
for road service in the USA were very simple Mallet compounds
(C&O 2-6-6-2s and N&W 2-8-8-2s)  They were 1920s designs built
in the 1950s
What does this prove? - KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid!  When it comes
to the railroad environment, a little complexity increases costs
a great deal. Look at the Pennsy's 10-coupled engines, the I1 Decapod,
the J1 Texas and the Q class duplexes.  They were designed and built
in this order, but were retired in the reverse order.  The simple
but powerful I1 lasted the longest.  Except for the N&W and a few
other railroads, the last steam passenger trains were pulled by Pacifics
and the steam freights drew Mikados or very basic Berkshires (there
is not very much fancy about a Nickel Plate Berk, no thermic siphons,
over-fire air jets, poppet valves or experimental exhaust nozzles). 
British Rail's last design was a 2-cylinder 2-10-0.  3 and 4 cyls.
were too costly to maintain.  Compared to the harsh environment of
a railroad, these multi-cylinder designs and condensers as well are
too fragile.  This fragility may be the downfall of EMD from No. 1
in the US diesel market.  The new energy saving circuit and engine
designs are not as robust as the old 567s and 645s.  GE seems to
have gotten a robust design that is also cost effective.  So it goes,
the railroad is a tough place for machinery, and only the fittest
will survive.  In 30 years, will people miss the SD-40 like we long
to see a Berkshire?  We will see.

                     John Welsh
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: kolt@quads.uchicago.edu (Matt K/Gonzo)
Subject: Rail service: Bangkok to Kuala Lumpur
Reply-To: kolt@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 12:34:14 GMT

My mom and dad might be going to SE asia next yr. They were wondering how/if
one can take a train from Bangkok to KL. Any help, or a place to ask would
be great. 

Thanks!
Matt

-- 
Matt Koltnow   B0 t-- w- c g+ k s+ e r- p   "Truth is not kind; and you
Email: kolt@midway.uchicago.edu              say neither am I." --Toad the    
Ntalk: kolt@ellis.uchicago.edu (or @quads)   Wet Sprocket      
Boycott the IP... R.I.P. MSS...Hugs to all...Standard Disclaimers Apply...
From: wbrill@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Warren Brill)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:44:58 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Misspelling of "Amtrak" (was Re: Metroliners)Y
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.railroad

In rec.railroad, johna@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (john.a.welsh) writes:

> In article <lfipggINNahd@news.bbn.com>, rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman) writes:
> > Seriously....
>   
> > how did the National Rail Passenger Corporation ever
> > get the name "Amtrak" anyway?
> 
> 
> Ron,
> This is the story that I have heard, and as far as I know it is true:
> 
> The original name was a much more appropriate NARPAC, but it was
                                                ^^^^^^
                                    Am I to assume this was alternately
                                    spelled *NARPACK*?
                                             ^^^^^^^   :-) :-)
> taken already, and Amtrak was their next choice.
> 
>                          John Welsh

 
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
o                                          i---i_________________      o
o    Warren T. Brill, a.k.a.          *----|[|]|  #### #### #### |*    o
o    wbrill@hpxxx.fc.hp.com         i_|___/|___|\________________|_i   o
o    wbrill@hpfcso.fc.hp.com       =++()=()=() `========' ()=()=()++=  o
o                                  =================================== o
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,ba.transportation