HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: JB <jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com>
Subject: Re: WHICH Dales??
Organization: NT/BNR
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1b3
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1992 13:24:33 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.015030.7130@serveme.chi.il.us> joe grosch,
joeg@gagme writes:
>. When the Mega-mall was
>being buildt a number of radio wags (Morning Zoo types) kept refering to
>it as "Mega-Dale". Only in the Cities would that get a laugh. sigh

Not so!!!  The rest of us wallowing in suburbia (even if we don't
actually, technically live in one) can get that one.  The joke in the
Raleigh area is;
Where do you live?
I live in Ridge-Mont-Downs-Moor-Run-Way-Chase
Gee.  I live there too.

JB......soon to vacationing in lovely Minnesota.  I'll be easy to
recognize, I'll be the ONLY ONE with red hair and green
eyes........AAAIIIGGGHHHHH.
From: ira2p@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Iain Robert Asplin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: Long live Sylvester McCoy
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:32:24 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <1992Aug31.192416.21206@wam.umd.edu> mrmuon@next09pg2.wam.umd.edu (Eli John Hawkins) writes:
>In article <1992Aug29.012819.1908@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>  
>ira2p@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Iain Robert Asplin) writes:
>> Why don't you like Greatest Show?  
>
>Do you have any Idea who the "gods of Ragnarok" were?


In a way, yes, they are figures from Norse mythology.
As to how they pertain in the story, all we do know and all we need to
know for the story is that the Doctor has met them before somewhere,
they inhabit another time/space, and they have formidable mind powers
which the eye-mirror could reflect back onto them.
From: ira2p@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Iain Robert Asplin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: Return of the Doctor
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:24:55 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <15169@umd5.umd.edu> jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...) writes:
>You'd be surprised.  The recent DWIN newsletter actually had a defense
>of Timelash.  And I remember, when Season 24 first made it over here I
>was so starved for new Who that I actually *liked* Time and the Rani.
>Thank God I recovered.  :-)
>

I and all my friends had EXACTLY the same reaction!
Of course, after about a week, when we looked back at it again we started
to rethink those opinions....

And has anyone else noticed this (I think I said this a few months ago too),
but in *every* single one of Pip and Jane Baker's stories, one character
at some point tells another how "astute" they are.
That's the kind of dialogue repitition that annoys the Hades out of me....
From: jorgi@cs.uow.edu.au (George B Zamroz)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: Long live Sylvester McCoy
Date: 29 Aug 92 12:11:32 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Wollongong University, Australia

mrmuon@next03epsl.wam.umd.edu (Eli John Hawkins) writes:

>I think that "the Gunfighters" was better than "Time and the Rani". When I  
>saw "the Gunfighters" I had such low expectations that it exceeded them  
>and I was pleased. When I saw "Time and the Rani" I was quite open until  
>it got to the giant brain and the kidnapped Einstein, then I couldn't take  
>it anymore. I don't mind "the Greatest show in the Galaxy" that much; I  
>was a bit cynical about it until someone explained to me that it is an  
>allegory of Doctor Who itself. One story I like, although I have no idea  
>why, is "Paradise Towers".

I like "Paradise Towers" as well, but I didn't really appreciate till I had
seen it at least twice. I think it has something to do with the simplicity
of the characters in the story. My favourite episode of the McCoy era would
have to be "Silver Nemisis". This episode is so wonderfully complex and
convoluted, what with everyone (Lady Penfort, the Fourth Reich, the Cybermen
and the Doctor) all out after the same thing.
-- 
George B. Zamroz, University of Wollongong, Australia
ex-Masters Student (Computer Science)        
Internet: jorgi@cs.uow.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: bcr@cernapo (Bill Riemers)
Subject: Re: Long live Sylvester McCoy
Organization: CERN, European Research Center for High Energy Physics
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 08:08:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.170351.11372@ioe.ac.uk> teexijd@ioe.ac.uk (IAN DAVENPORT) writes:

>  Let's not exaggerate here. You would appear to be the unique fan which has
>  not seen a stomach-turning episode? Everyone seems to have differing
>  opinions on this, but surely no-one really liked such dross as Timelash
>  or Time  and the Rani ?

Oh comeon.  These were reasonable episodes.  (Maybe not the best, but reasonable.)
The only episode I can't stand is "The Gunfighters".  I even errased my VHS
copy of this episode.

>  In <1992Aug27.085657.1845@bvc.edu> juoncatherin@bvc.edu writes:

>  >So why should Sylvester McCoy be replaced if Doctor Who starts up again?  
>  >That seems to be what everyone is saying.  Give the guy a chance!  I think 
>  >he is one of the three best we've had yet.  He deserves at least another 
>  >two seasons.  That's all.

Maybe he wasn't the best... But still he was unique, but definitly "The Doctor".
That is all any actor in the role can hope to achieve.

>  IMHO a new DW series should make a clean break with the old one. From what
>  I hear, all the standard sets will have to me remade, and so probably
>  redesigned too. Should they really try to carbon-copy the old series, or
>  should there be sweeping changes in the look of a new show? I'm not saying
>  that the basic premise of the show should be altered, but a redesign
>  surely wouldn't go amiss? At the least, they should get rid of those
>  dopey BBC micro screens in the main console, boy they sucked.

Obviously we are never going to get the "same" show back...  Then again,
Doctor Who has changed a number of times in the past.  In retrospect, it
seems usually for the better, but it didn't seem that way at the time.

                                   Bill
From: ira2p@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Iain Robert Asplin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: Writing for DR. WHO (was Re: Long live Sylvester McCoy)
Date: 29 Aug 92 01:32:54 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <1992Aug28.200031.5137@ulowell.ulowell.edu> pcrossma@cs.ulowell.edu (The Gillrocker) writes:
>
>I think if the show returns they should look carefully at who writes scripts
>for the show....
>
>I think the following people should write for Who
>
>Paul Cornell    (Timewyrm was SUPERB!!!!  Let him write for the show)
>Ben Aaronovitch (sp)  (good writer....like both shows and the book)
>Marc Platt      (confusing.....but good)
>Ian Briggs	(if Ace leaves, let this guy write her out....he wrote her in)
>
>I'm gonna get shot for this one..... :)
>
>Steven Wyatt	(I don't care what you think...Paradise Towers and 
>		 Greatest Show in the Galaxy were terrific)
>
>Christopher Bidmead  (Always liked his work...)
>
>
>
I'll agree with most of the above, especially Bidmead and Aaronovitch.
One reservation about Cornell though, he's never written for TV before,
so an editor would need to keep a tighter rein on his imagination to
keep the thing within budget.

One note about Wyatt, he has said in a DWM interview that he no longer
wishes to write for the series.
From: neal@RIEMANN.MATH.MUN.CA (Neal Crossan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Quiz 5 corrections
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:16:08 GMT

>*3)  Name the first DW to feature Patrick Troughton's face at the beginning
>     of the show?
>
>     The Macra Terror

   From CMS Dr.Who An Adventure In Space and Time - 
    The Macra Terror was the last use of the standard Doctor Who opening 
   title sequence and title music.

>*4) Who was suppose to be the next companion after Ben and Polly had left?
>
>    Jean Rock
>

     From DWM #115, 'Fantasy Females' by Richard Marson
      'This story [The Faceless Ones] featured the delightul charms of 
     Pauline Collins later to achieve fame in both Upstairs, Downstairs and
     No, Honestly.  Her character, Sam Briggs, was designed as a companion
     but sadly Collins refused a regular role with the series'

     From the same issue, Gary Russell writes in his review of 'The Faceless
     Ones' novelization;
      'At the time the story was made Sam, as she was called, was intended to
     become a companion to the Doctor.'

> 8) Describe the Master of the LAnd?
>
>    A Master computer in the Land of Fiction which needed human imagination
>    to operate on.

     From The Doctor Who Quiz Book (the first one)
     Q. Whom did the 'Master' of the land of fiction serve?
     A. The Master Brain, a computer.

     -Neal Crossan-
From: dale.clayton@canrem.com (dale clayton)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: who do it
Date: 2 Sep 92 00:44:21 GMT
Reply-To: "dale clayton" <dale.clayton@canrem.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

boyd@unb.ca wrote:
------------------
-> Dale: if you're still really bothered about an American-made <Doctor
-> Who>, what would you think about getting it done in Canada (or one of

 Let me assure you that I would not be in favour of that either. My view
is simply that I would not like _any_ outside (the UK) productions of
DW. My position is based on the fondness I have for the distinction DW
has possessed in its many years of production. Take that distinct
flavour away, you'll only be left with an imitation, _IMO_. Isn't DW's
distinction one of its major features to us?
 There was no insult to "outsiders" intended. Every country on Earth has
its TV excellence. Britain has its Doctor Who.

Regards,
Dale Clayton
-----------------------
dale@clayton@canrem.com
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: mrmuon@next16pg2.wam.umd.edu (Eli John Hawkins)
Subject: Re: Hartnell-Troughton Regeneration Sequence
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:29:02 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.211810.7501@intelhf.hf.intel.com>  
hilp@intelhf.hf.intel.com (Robin Rosenbaum) writes:
> In article <1992Sep2.155132.7788@wam.umd.edu>  
mrmuon@next03epsl.wam.umd.edu (Eli John Hawkins) writes:
> >... It says the Doctor regenerates in the TARDIS sleep  
> >augmentor, which is not what happens in the clip.
> 
> Is the "sleep augmentor" the same as the "zero room" then?
> 
> BTW, when was the first mention of the "zero room" under that
> name?  The first one I'm aware of was in _Castrovalva_, but
> I haven't seen most of the pre-Tom Baker episodes.

I think the sleep augmentor was described as a covered couch, so no. I  
don't think the sleep augmentor exists outside of the "10th Planet" novel.
The zero room was indeed first mentioned in "Castrovalva".
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: c8643631@cc.newcastle.edu.au (THE MAD DUCK)
Subject: Re: Long live Sylvester McCoy
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 08:26:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.170351.11372@ioe.ac.uk>, teexijd@ioe.ac.uk (IAN DAVENPORT) writes:
> Let's not exaggerate here. You would appear to be the unique fan which has
> not seen a stomach-turning episode? Everyone seems to have differing
> opinions on this, but surely no-one really liked such dross as Timelash
> or Time  and the Rani ?

Actually, I did enjoy 'Time And The Rani'. I thought it was fun. Nothing
brilliant and - having read the book beforehand - I reckon it could have done
with being a three-parter, but it was still a zillion times better than my
all-time least favourite episode of any tv show which I have ever watched on a
semi-regular basis: 'Delta And The Bannermen'. Boy, that story was a case of
wasted potential if there ever was one.



> Ian J Davenport   MULLARD SPACE SCIENCE LABORATORY   ijd@uk.ac.ucl.mssl
> 
>                "Get a life!" - William Shatner
>     "Is there something wrong with the one I have?" - Spock, STIV

Edward Duck
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: amigo@milton.u.washington.edu (The Friend)
Subject: Re: Question on New Scifi Channel
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 23:43:10 GMT

lambert_l@ab.wvnet.edu writes:

><I have a question about the new scifi channel?
>Is it going to cost anything to have it or will it be free like 
>the USA channel? Someone please answer my question.


>   Thanx, 

>   Desperate at Alderson-Broaddus College


>   Also #1 Doctor Who Fan!!!!!!


>     YEAH DOCTOR!!!!!!!!!!!!
>         

	I was told by my cable co. its not a subscriber-based service,
so yes its just like USA - a free-bie.

						--> Mike
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: Red Dwarf (was Re: Americanizing of the UK,.....)
From: ace@kryton.UUCP (Catherine Beckstead)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 10:35:13 PDT
Organization: Paradox Alley F&SF BBS 805-492-8789

ekho.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu writes:

> 
>   I just wandered into my local new/used bookstore and to my utter horror 
> and delight, a book rudely hit me over the head! ;))    After
> recovering, I read the title once again just to make sure... Yup... It is 
> titled, "Red Dwarf:  Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers"!  I looked at the 
> back and inside cover in disbelief... Yup... It is about those Smegheads 
> Lister, Rimmer, Holly, and company.  It is written by Grant Naylor, and 
> it costs $4.99 in the U.S. ($5.99 in Canada).  I haven't read it yet, 
> needing the entire day and night (this happened yesterday by the way) to 
> recouperate. ;}  Hope it's good!
> 
>   Stay Safe!
> 
>          Yours in Time and Space,
> 
>              Ekho (Killer Queen, Dynamite with a Laser Beam)

Yes, I saw that book at a con last Feburary.  But since they wanted
something like 10 dollars for it, I decided to wait.   I'm glad it is
available here in the US now.  I'll check my bookstore for it.
Thanks.
-Cathy


-------------------------------------------------------------------
Catherine Beckstead                    ace@kryton.uucp
"Do you want to argue with a can of deodorant that registers
NINE on the Richter scale?"        --Ace, in "Dragonfire"
From: mrmuon@next15epsl.wam.umd.edu (Eli John Hawkins)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: "SHADA" US release {Update}
Date: 27 Aug 92 19:44:31 GMT
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1992Aug27.084414.8424@cam-orl.co.uk> daj@cam-orl.co.uk (David  
A. James) writes:
> They did better than that! John Leeson spent 1 or 2 seasons away from
> the job of doing K9's voice and for Season 17 that role was filled by  
David
> Brierley, who was therefore the obvious choice of dubbing the lines in  
the
> reconstituted Shada.
Although Brierley was the one scheduled to do K9's voice in Shada  
originally, I would be happier if it had been done by Leeson. I think  
Brierley's version of K9's voice is extremely and annoyingly silly  
sounding.
> not too much of a minefield, I am prepared to spend a day
> typing/scanning the script in and posting it for the benefit of those
> whose copies of
> Shada do not/will not contain a copy of it.
I'd appreciate that.
From: sdh5@po.CWRU.Edu (Scott D. Hurley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: ALL OUR TOMORROWS:  The Doctor and Causality
Date: 3 Sep 1992 16:15:42 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


Stop HIM.  Sorry about the typo.

-- 
Though it will take me to Forever's Rim,
I sail through the reaches of Time's Twilight Dim.
Questing for Knowledge, on Night's Darkest Sea,
Bound for those shores enshrouded by Mystery.  --Thaliaer's Oath
From: jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: Americans and Who
Date: 27 Aug 92 17:22:41 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <27AUG92.10549744.0077@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> BOYD@UNB.CA (Boyd) writes:
>In article <1992Aug27.081433.16431@unixg.ubc.ca> guth@unixg.ubc.ca (A lonely wanderer from the 15th century) writes:

>>Perhaps a collaboration between a PBS station or stations and the BBC
>>could bring it back.  Such things have been done in the past.

>I dare say a collaboration between A&E and the BBC would work quite well

This brings to mind a name:  Rebecca Eaton.  She's the American co-
producer for "Mystery!", and actually helps put up funding for series
such as the fabulous Jeremy Brett Sherlock Holmes stories.  That kind
of collaboration might actually work.
From: ira2p@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Iain Robert Asplin)
Subject: Re: Production company chosen?
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 19:30:51 GMT

In article <9209011613.AA24172@riemann.math.mun.ca> neal@RIEMANN.MATH.MUN.CA (Neal Crossan) writes:
>From the latest issue of The Frame, in an interview with former script editor
>Anthony Root;
>
>   Frame: How do you feel about the fact that the show's future is once again
>          in the balance at present?
>
>   AR: Well, interestingly enough, when I heard about that, and the fact that 
>       the BBC were looking for an independent company to take over production
>       I immediantly wrote to say that I thought that we could do a good job
>       on it here at Working title and that I had some ideas about it.  But
>       Peter Creegan, Head of Series, said that he'd already secured the
>       company that was going to do it.
>   
>   F: Really?
>  
>   AR: Yes.  That was about six months ago and I keep expecting to see an
>       announcement.
>
>
>      -Neal Crossan-
>

Oh,  GOD I HOPE THIS IS TRUE!!!!!!!!!
	PLEASE, PLEASE LET IT BE TRUE!!!!!!!!!

This is probably extremely wishful thinking on my part, but perhaps a 
delayed announcement is intentional by the Beeb to keep the fans sitting
on the edge of their seats in frustration, and then all of a sudden
some week, they'll up and announce "Hey, it's back!  And we have a new
episode already ready for you all!  Here it is!"

Motive for such a surprise move?  It's probably the only way they can
win back some fans who hwould like to see the BBC burn to the ground by now,
by pulling a really big and pleasant surprise.

Of course, that's what I've been hoping for two years now.....

Maybe K9 sais it all when he said this in "The Armageddon Factor:"
"Optimism:  Believe that all will work out well.  Irrational, bordering
		on insane."

Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: mrmuon@next05pg2.wam.umd.edu (Eli John Hawkins)
Subject: Re: An idea for the return of our favouring show
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:08:25 GMT

In article <1o64PB3w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca>  
yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee) writes:
> I though of something nostalgic.  When the show does return, why not a  
trial
> run of 3 seasons of 48 25-minutes episodes.

Because this would be incredibly difficult and expensive, that's why they  
switched to 26 episodes in season 7. 
This is also a bit much to ask. Getting someone to produce a normal size  
season is difficult enough; it would be even harder to get someone to  
produce three jumbo seasons.
From: EEC@PORTIA.UMDS.LON.AC.UK (Steve P eec@portia.umds.lon.ac.uk)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Don't believe everything you read....
Date: 2 Sep 1992 08:26:38 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee) writes:

> Correction to quiz 5,  "The Faceless Ones" not "Macra Terror" is the first
> time the Doctor's face was featuring at the show's opening.

Aghhh not again !    Examine the EVIDENCE before you pronounce !

See my earlier post.

Don't take DWM as being the ultimate reference on things !  Remember, this
is the magazine that told us the early shows went out live, once upon
a time!

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: Boyd <BOYD@UNB.CA>
Subject: RE: PBS & SCIFI CHANNELS
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 23:02:18 GMT

Just a note:
   As usual, when I try to find out about something here in Fredericton,
the person I'm asking tells me that I'm the first person they've even
heard mention the thing.  Such is the case with the Sci-Fi Channel.
Ho-hum.
   Well, they've heard of it now. Perhaps something will come of it.

=+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+=
|  ____                        |  The more necessary anything appears  |
|   /  /_   _ _ _ _   __  ,    |  to my  mind  the  more  certain  it  |
|  /  /  )_(_) / ) )_(_/_/)__  |  is that I only assert a limitation.  |
|        (boyd@unb.ca)         |                  -- Aleister Crowley  |
=+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+=
From: riff@coos.dartmouth.edu (Christopher P. Riff)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: Long live Sylvester McCoy
Date: 28 Aug 92 13:34:43 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

bcr@cernapo (Bill Riemers) writes:

>In article <1992Aug27.170351.11372@ioe.ac.uk> teexijd@ioe.ac.uk (IAN DAVENPORT) writes:

>>  Let's not exaggerate here. You would appear to be the unique fan which has
>>  not seen a stomach-turning episode? Everyone seems to have differing
>>  opinions on this, but surely no-one really liked such dross as Timelash
>>  or Time  and the Rani ?

>Oh comeon.  These were reasonable episodes.  (Maybe not the best, but reasonable.)
>The only episode I can't stand is "The Gunfighters".  I even errased my VHS
>copy of this episode.

I didn't think "The Gunfighters" was >that< bad, although the British 
accents on cowboys was pretty abysmal.  The one story I can't stand
is "The Greatest Show in the Galaxy."  

----------------
Chris Riff
riff@dartmouth.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: hilp@intelhf.hf.intel.com (Robin Rosenbaum)
Subject: Re: Hartnell-Troughton Regeneration Sequence
Organization: Development Tools Operation, Intel Corp., Hillsboro, OR
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 21:18:10 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.155132.7788@wam.umd.edu> mrmuon@next03epsl.wam.umd.edu (Eli John Hawkins) writes:
>... It says the Doctor regenerates in the TARDIS sleep  
>augmentor, which is not what happens in the clip.

Is the "sleep augmentor" the same as the "zero room" then?

BTW, when was the first mention of the "zero room" under that
name?  The first one I'm aware of was in _Castrovalva_, but
I haven't seen most of the pre-Tom Baker episodes.

Robin Hilp
Please send email replies to rosenrob@ccm.hf.intel.com,
not the account originating this message.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: Boyd <BOYD@UNB.CA>
Subject: RE: brit. comercials
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 12:53:33 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.752.12085@dosgate> "mike rizzello" <mike.rizzello@canrem.com> writes:
>
> Regarding the 'traces' of British in U.S. comercials, how about the one
>for the Quicksnap cameras.  [details deleted]
>
> There is also the Kit-Kat commercial ... [d.d.]

   Just wondering: what is it about these commercials that you think is
somehow distinctively British??

=+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+=
|  ____                        |  The more necessary anything appears  |
|   /  /_   _ _ _ _   __  ,    |  to my  mind  the  more  certain  it  |
|  /  /  )_(_) / ) )_(_/_/)__  |  is that I only assert a limitation.  |
|        (boyd@unb.ca)         |                  -- Aleister Crowley  |
=+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+=