From: rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu (Rich Winkel)
Subject: Brazilian Nobel Nominee Interviewed
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Originator: rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu
Organization: PACH
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 00:49:46 GMT

/** gn.peacemedia: 185.0 **/
** Topic: Brazilian Bishop Interviewed **
** Written  8:22 pm  Nov 10, 1992 by gn:peacemedia in cdp:gn.peacemedia **
LIVING ON THE ULTIMATE FRONTIER
AN INTERVIEW WITH BRAZIL'S BISHOP PEDRO CASALDALIGA

[Peace Media Service] Pedro Casaldaliga--nominated by the bishops
of Spain for the 1991 Nobel Peace Prize--is bishop of Sao Felix do
Araguaia, a remote Brazilian diocese in the state of Mato Grosso.
A Claretian missionary from Spain, he has lived in Brazil for 32
years. Widely recognized for his commitment to nonviolence and his
firm defense of the poor, Dom Pedro is also a poet whose verse has
been translated in many languages.

Dom Pedro offers his own humble introduction: ``I am 62 years old--
an old horse! I'm the child of a cow wrangler, a simple, humble
family from Barcelona, Spain, with peasant roots. And, by passion,
I'm a Latin American!''

I interviewed Dom Pedro at his simple home of clay and brick, with
its cement floors and two beds to a room. The diminutive priest
wears plastic thongs as do millions of Brazilians. For two days I
observed his morning rituals: prayer in solitude at dawn,
international news on his shortwave radio, prayer with his
community. He served me lunch, cleared the dishes, worked at his
typewriter, instantly dropping his writing when a neighbor stopped
by. Of his mission, his people and the gospel challenge, Dom Pedro
had much to say in response to my questions.    --Mev Puleo


_How has the Brazilian Church changed?

In 1968, there was a full military dictatorship in Brazil. The
hierarchy then supported the dictatorship because of their fear of
Communism. But when the abuses and domination grew, the Church
adopted a more prophetic attitude. The Brazilian Bishops'
Conference voted almost unanimously on documents promoting social
justice, land reform, education and the rights of the indigenous
people. The 1970s were a revolutionary decade for Latin American
consciousness. The Latin American Bishops' Conference also gave us
a greater awareness and inspired us to take up the option for the
poor. Even today, the three countries with the most religious
persons murdered are El Salvador, Haiti and Brazil.

_Have you been touched by this violence?

This region was violent when I arrived and still is. Many peasants
were murdered in conflicts with the landowners, buried without
names or coffins. We've buried so many people. And we have
suffered. My friend Father Joao Bosco Burnier was shot while
standing next to me. Many friends have been killed and I have
received death threats for years. The landowners form death squads
to threaten those who challenge them.

_What sustains you through all this violence?

My faith. I thank God that I've never had a great faith crisis!
Writing--if you communicate in an open way about your experiences--
brings one to a certain coherence. Poetry, a love of nature and a
childlike sensitivity all help one to love with more naturalness,
with vibrancy, overcoming problems. I also thank God, who has
accompanied me with clear signs. Martyrdom has been for me a great
sacrament. When you live so close to death, including the death of
martyrdom, you're always on the ultimate frontier. Life cannot be
banal because you're so close to suffering, at times close to
despair, but also close to heroism.

_As a Spaniard, you come from a ``conquering'' to a ``conquered''
country. How does this feel?

Certainly the Spanish, other Europeans and all children of the
first world should feel a collective historical remorse for
domination and colonialization. We of the First World should feel
an urgency, an obligation to know our history better and tell the
inverse of what is told--the so-called ``discovery'' of America. It
was already a world of God and of human beings.

_Do indigenous peoples have something special to offer
Christianity?

Yes. Some European anthropologists thought that the indigenous
people of Latin America didn't have religion. Then they discovered
that, for the indigenous, everything was religion! I wrote a song
for an Indian liturgy, ``Our dance is worship, our life is worship,
our death is worship!'' This dimension of a contemplative life--
this profound, spontaneous communion with nature, this capacity for
hours of silence in the forest, by the rivers--we should take up
these as aspects of spirituality. We sometimes rationalize our
lives so much that we become parched and cold. We should re-
cultivate a spirituality of silence, myth, a living sense of God
and neighbor, both here and beyond death.

_Is the contemplative life important to you?

It's my whole life. The more radically we are revolutionaries, the
more we should be contemplatives. And what is prayer? A personal
and collective celebration of faith. Our prayers--personal, in
teams, in the pilgrimages for land, our remembering of the martyrs,
the huge meetings of the base ecclesial communities--they're all
celebrative! The Latin American world is a world of many colors,
music, dance. For the indigenous, the world is water, forest,
birds, dance, music. The Churches want to incarnate themselves in
these expressions.

_I heard that once at a meeting of base communities you asked the
bishops present to kneel in repentance before the people. Why?

We in the hierarchy are the main ones responsible for the evil that
occurs and for the good that doesn't occur in the Church. Many
times we haven't had the courage to denounce or announce. Many
times the Christian people, women and the poor in particular,
haven't had the opportunity to participate. Hence, the _mea culpa
should begin with the hierarchy.

_Can the ecology movement be a point of solidarity between the
First and Third Worlds?

The maximum ecology is the human being. The most important thing
isn't the house, but the one who dwells in the house, and the
universe is our home. So, if ecology is only sentimentalism, if
it's only a fear that we can't get quality lumber or that pollution
will reach us, if it doesn't value indigenous people and the people
of the Third World, then it's selfish and colonialist.

Also, it's important for you to see that you in the first world are
sending us pollution: chemical factories, nuclear waste, even risky
medical experiments. This pollution is imposed on us.

_From where does your hope come?

I have hope because I believe that history doesn't repeat itself.
Certain things are irreversible--the new awareness and freedom in
the Church that didn't exist before, participation of laypersons in
the Church and above all the base ecclesial communities, the new
theologies, the new ways of reading the Bible, and ecumenism at the
base. Above all that in the more marginalized sectors of the Church
so much martyrdom is flowering, so much testimony spilled in blood.
This is irreversible. We aren't going back, we are going forward.

I believe we're moving towards a certain international solidarity.
There are many people from the United States in Central America, El
Salvador, Nicaragua--even giving their lives in martyrdom. Yes,
history moves forward and this give me hope.

_How can we value martyrdom without glorifying suffering and death?

How to value the cross--this is the same question, isn't it? We
know that the cross is cursed when it's not a redemptive cross. We
venerate, glorify, perhaps long for martyrdom, not as death but as
a witness, not as losing life, but as giving life. Jesus said this
is the greatest love. I also believe, like the Italians, that ``a
beautiful death beautifies all of life.'' This stimulation to
generosity and radical giving helps one to overcome the monotonies
of life.

Clearly I'm not glorifying oppression, persecution or death. But I
insist on the resurrection. I'm obsessed by the resurrection! I say
over and over again to our people in celebrations and pastoral
visits that the single most Christian word we can pronounce is
Easter.

===
Mev Puleo, a photographer and writer, is preparing a book on the
Brazilian Church for Orbis Books.

** End of text from cdp:gn.peacemedia **

Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive