From: osyjm@cs.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: INL problems
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:10:11 GMT
Organization: CS

In article <Bt5LrK.48s@wpi.WPI.EDU> bcranton@wpi.WPI.EDU (Brian W. Cranton) writes:

(I realize the poster asked for mail, but this seems like it should warrant
open discussion...)

>I have been reading all the complaints with regards to the INL and so forth and
>am left wondering why nobody has figured out that it is time to start another
>league.  The INL is a formal competition, primarily college orientated
>league set up for veteran players.  Isn't it about time for a B league for the
>rest of us?  As it is, with only four games during the normal season, each team
>doesn't even get to play half the other teams...

While it's true that a majority of the players and teams are from colleges,
I would expect this to change over time.  More and more at-large teams are
forming, drawing in people from non-academic places. (I don't expect
non-college players to ever exceed the number of college players, but the
percentages maybe won't be so wildly skewed... )

The is nothing inherent in the INL that means it's for veteran players.  Heck,
I captained a summer INL team that consisted of utter newbies to Admirals
on some of the most popular servers...  (We didn't do well, but that was
my fault, not theirs...).  I consider myself to be just a tad above the
clueless newbie classification, however, I learned tons watching, and talking
to the "veteran" players on my team.  

The same principle can be applied to the case you're describing...  Volunteer
to captain a team, recruit clueless newbies and veterans alike, and 
scrimmage like maniacs.  That's where you'll learn. 

Forming a second league of inexperienced players doesn't seem to me like it
will really solve anything, except make for a bunch more low-to-mid-clue
games.

If the clue-difference is really as high as I perceive that you're saying
it is, having a second league doesn't really solve anything.  After your
season is over, you still won't be competitive with the general INL
team...  So what's the point?

I'd rather be on a team, and learn by the school of hard knocks, and play
against people where you have to constantly strive to improve, rather than
muddle through against essentially the same skill level...

>
>The INL is organized by and for good teams.  For example, consider the random
>selection of which team will play which during the normal season.  One of my
>favorite quotes from the descriptions of INL games went along the lines of 
>"While trying to decide which of the three planets they had carriers heading 
>for I should defend, they took a fourth planet as well."  I believe this was 
>one of the 15 minute genocide games.

There will always be good teams and bad teams, it's the way of the beast.
My team didn't do well, yet I still picked up valuable organization skills, 
more "situational awareness" skills that will benefit later on, even though
we lost 3 of our games.  I think we all learned a lesson about not letting
up the pressure on the opponent in a game.  If we hadn't slacked off on GBO,
in the last few minutes, we would've had them.  (arguments about Red
Shirt aside)...   But I don't think you'll learn that lesson playing against
people that are at your same general skill level.


>Another league should exist so that a new and novice team need not compete 
>against the best that there is.  Doing so only creates a profession vs. 
>amature type environment where even though both sides are trying, one side 
>doesn't stand a chance from the start.  This is not a situation conducive to 
>fun or learning.

At one time, I suggested to the INL council, that AL teams should be in a 
separate division from the school teams, thus giving the AL teams a 
chance to "win something", and not always be overpowered by the school teams.
Fearless leader (Tom) vociferously disagrees, arguing that the strength
of the AL teams is starting to approach the strength of the school teams (I'd
say the weak school team), and over time, the distinction between the
school teams and the AL teams will taper off...  I didn't agree with him,
but after the SINL, I'm more inclined to agree.  

This is along the same lines as your amateur vs pro argument, with AL teams
being the amateur's, and the school teams being the pro's.  I don't think your
argument is valid.

>I would just like to add that this is not intended as a "you are not playing
>nice so I'll go play elsewhere" kind of suggestion.  It is only meant to
>imply that there are varying degrees of skill when it comes to netrek and
>that I think teams would find it more enjoyable to play other teams of
>similar ability.  

Personally, a much bigger thrill would've been thrashing GBO, a team of
greater ability.  We played/scrimmaged teams of similar ability (12AM,GG),
the games were fun, but not as much stress as playing RS or GBO.  I enjoyed
the high-stress games more.  Maybe that's just me.

		Additionally, if you have a league, each team should play
>most of the other teams in the league, not just a random sampling of them.

This issue is being addressed by the INL council, I suspect this will change.
-- 
 Jaye Mathisen, COE Systems Manager                (406) 994-4780
 410 Roberts Hall,Dept. of Computer Science
 Montana State University,Bozeman MT 59717	osyjm@cs.montana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek