HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: matt@oddjob.uchicago.edu (Matt Crawford)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Unusual Ways to Propose
Date: 17 Aug 92 15:59:42 GMT
Organization: Big Bang Burger Bar

Reykjavik sez:
) >             How about asking her if she is aware of the tax advantages, 

Robbie sez:
) Don't tell her about "tax advantages", there aren't any.

Matt sez:
That depends.  If one of the couple makes a whole lot more than the
other, they come out ahead.  If not, they lose.  The ratio at which
they break even depends on the brackets they are in separately and
together, but it's greater than 2:1.  Anyone who isn't arithmetic-shy
can check an individual case if they have the information, a tax rate
table, and 5 or 10 minutes.
From: vickiemc@isi.edu (Vickie McCorkendale)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Unusual Ways to Propose
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:01:39 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: USC Information Sciences Institute


Reykjavik sez:
) >             How about asking her if she is aware of the tax advantages, 

Robbie sez:
) Don't tell her about "tax advantages", there aren't any.

Matt sez:
>That depends.  If one of the couple makes a whole lot more than the
>other, they come out ahead.  If not, they lose.  The ratio at which
>they break even depends on the brackets they are in separately and
>together, but it's greater than 2:1.  Anyone who isn't arithmetic-shy
>can check an individual case if they have the information, a tax rate
>table, and 5 or 10 minutes.

Vickie sez:
I have to disagree.  My husband makes more than twice what I make.  Right after
we were married, we filed taxes for last year.  We figured out all the various
combinations for filing, based on last years income (married filing together, 
married filing separately, and single), we were both better off before we 
were married.  It has now become a joke, that there was no reason to get 
married in the first place!! (other than blissful companionship for the 
remainder of our lives).
From: kjb@calmasd.prime.com (Ken Brucker)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Pre-marital counseling
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:25:43 GMT
Organization: Computervision - A Division of Prime Computer

In article <12AUG199208421845@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov>, jac0854@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov (Jennifer A. Corner) writes:
> My fiance and I will be starting pre-marital counseling next month.  We
> are both a little nervous about it and were wondering how other couples
> experiences were - both good and bad. 

Firstly, congratulations!

As to the counseling, as a part of the services the church my fiance and I are
getting married at they provide some pre-marital counseling.  Essentially it
consisted of a multiple choice test asking a number of questions about
virtually all the important aspects of a relationship.  Stuff like, have you
discussed having children, your roles as husband and wife, mother and father,
your financial situation and so on.  The answers were scaled in a strongly
agree, to strongly disagree scale of 1-5.  There was also a section that
dealt with your own family history to determine how stable your home life was
when you were growing up.

And that was the first meeting.  We just took the test.  The second meeting a
few weeks later we went over the results.  Some center that processes these
things creates a strengths/weaknesses, agreement/disagreement chart that we
went over with the counselor, talking about our answers, why we answered the
way we did when we didn't agree on things, pointing out possible problem areas
and areas of strength.

And that was it.  All in all, quite painless and the counselor was impressed
with the amount of discussion that Michele and I had already gone into.

What the counseling comes down to in a nutshell isn't so much trying to
determine if you are compatible, as much as making sure you're talking to each
about your relationship, your future together, your plans and pointing out
areas that could use some attention or that could be sources of conflict. 
(Whew, that was a long sentence!)  If you're going into this relationship with
your eyes open and have been communicating with each other, I'd guess that your
experience with the counseling will be positive.

Ken

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
**  Ken Brucker -- VMS/Ultrix Systems Programmer/Mangler -- Computer Vision
 **  kjb@calmasd.Prime.COM  
  **  Practice Random Kindness and Senseless Acts of Beauty
From: reykja@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Reykja Sigurdsson)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 07:19:31 GMT
Subject: Re: Unusual Ways to Propose
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: soc.couples

> 
> What are the best proposal stories that you've heard?  There's
> always the skywriter and buying TV time and leaving the ring
> in her lunch or something like that ... but have any of y'all
> ever heard of anything REALLY unusual?



             How about asking her if she is aware of the tax advantages, 
cheaper rent, having a man around to lift heavy objects and lots of 
fabulous sex? 

-reykjavik

> 
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: msmallin@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: 'Giving Away' the Bride
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:26:43 GMT

The ceremony that I wrote a few years back (before I met my betrothed :-) )
calls for the partners to enter from seperate sides of the hall/space and
walk to the front/center together, with an optional unision saying: 
  I come to this union of my own free will; I am not given, I am not taken.
  It is the wish of my heart to join my life to yours/____'s.
I'm not sure we will use that particular bit, but I do know that no-one will
'give' me away, or Vincent either. We both feel strongly that our marriage
should be our celebration, to which our friends and family are invited.
 The tradition of the bride being given away by her father is very support-
ive to some, but to me, it smakes of 'woman as father's property first, then
husband's', as it was traditionally in some old (or not so old!) cultures.
 Another tid-bit: the tradition of brides wearing white stems from a time
when the woman was supposed to be in mourning (i.e. white) because she was
'dying' to her father's household. It was only quite recently that white
became the Victorian symbol of virginity/purity.
  (I'm wearing white with lots of bright blue and yellow embroidery :-) )

Just your historic trivia for the day!
 Meg Smallin
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Wednesday, 19 Aug 1992 18:40:29 EDT
From: K. Roper <ROPERK@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Unusual Ways to Propose
 <1992Aug10.195116.13603@verdix.com> <1992Aug18.205543.16694@wts.com>
 <l93g7nINN7v5@roundup.crhc.uiuc.edu>


  I gave him a helium balloon (one of the metallic ones) with the
   words "Marry Me?" printed on it, and an engagement gift/thing
   (a pocket watch) tied to the string.   Mind you, our wedding car
   was a "classic car" hearse and the minister wore a dracula cape.
   We had plastic farm animals on the wedding cake (carrot) "eating"
   the flowers.  Most of my relatives thought the whole thing was a
   hoot.  I should add that my birth mother sewed me an outfit which
   she claimed would be "billowy and romantic" ... the skirt opened to
   well above mid-thigh when I walked and the top was a little spagetti-
   strap affair.  Oh, and to deter the would-be shutterbugs, we whipped
   out Groucho Marx nose glasses after cutting the cake :>

  I've done the traditional wedding thing in the past -- it's an inestimable
   bother and a bore.  It's a really good way to get to hate your in-laws,
   IMHO.  Your mileage may vary.

  I like the fortune cookie idea!

  I suppose a variation on the sky-writing theme would be to fly over
   a message written on the ground ... has this been done? (probably)
   How about writing it on the bottom of a bowl to be filled with tomato
   (or other opaque) soup?  Writing it in the dust on your love's monitor?
   (My husband sez, 'How about tattooing it on your forehead?')  Contest
   entry -- 'You have won an eligible bachelor to marry before the expiry
   date of mm/dd/yyy'?  Painting it on the ceiling over your love's bed or
   or couch, preferably in colourless phosphorescent paint?


  Kim

  Weirdness can be genetic.
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: amymw@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Amy Wisotsky)
Subject: Re: Ending a marriage
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:16:20 GMT

2753s@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Michele White) writes:


>   Hi,

>    I am posting for a friend (A female) who is trying to end her marriage.
>She know that if she just comes out and tells her husband that she doesn't
>want to be married anymore, he will just be devastated.  On the other
>hand if she keeps pretending and playing these little mind games, both
>parties will be miserable...........Doesn't anyone have any suggestions?

Does she want to try working it out at all, or does she just want it
over?  If he will be devastated, then presumably he still loves her.
Perhaps she can tell him that she is miserable and was thinking of
ending it, and then they can talk about what's bothering her.  

							-Amy-
							 :)
----                                      
Amy M. Wisotsky -- amymw@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu 
"Once upon a time, in your wildest dreams...." 
				-Moody Blues   
        				  ----
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: jac0854@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov (Jennifer A. Corner)
Subject: Pre-marital counseling
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center / Cleveland, Ohio
Date: 12 Aug 1992 08:42 EST  

My fiance and I will be starting pre-marital counseling next month.  We
are both a little nervous about it and were wondering how other couples
experiences were - both good and bad. 

**********
      Jennifer Corner              
 NASA Lewis Research Center
      Cleveland, Ohio                   
**********
From: linda@gratton.net.com (Linda Hill)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Hierarchy of Best Man and Maid/Matron of Honor
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:32:40 GMT
Organization: Network Equipment Technologies, Redwood City

In article <1992Aug8.235500.28942@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> au138@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John S. Kennedy) writes:
>
>If I were to ever get married, probably the most appropriate choice
>for Best Man would be my friend Donny.  However, I'm 6'0", most
>of the rest of my male friends are around 5'8", so the pictures
>would look awful funny because Donny is abour 5'1" [rest deleted]

This is a joke right?  But I didn't see a smiley.  I have never heard of
anyone thinking of how their wedding pictures will "look" because of the
height of the people involved.

Maybe someone should tell Donny what a swell "friend" he has.

linda@net.com (no matter what it says in the "From:" line)
From: jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Ending a marriage
Date: 19 Aug 92 04:06:13 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <23782@oasys.dt.navy.mil> 2753s@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Michele White) writes:
+    I am posting for a friend (A female) who is trying to end her marriage.
+She know that if she just comes out and tells her husband that she doesn't
+want to be married anymore, he will just be devastated.  On the other

I don't think at this time there is any 'silver bullet'. As I just
posted to 'Ivan', I think the concept of marriage as the ultimate
relationship is held too widely and too deeply to allow for a 'easy'
separation.  There are some who would immediately say that I have
some 'shallow' view of relationships. This now where near the truth.
I believe that sex and marriage need not define the 'depth' of a
relationship. I also feel that in some sense it is unfortunate that
there is the idea that marriage is the ultimate in 'depth'. 

I have read in several places of late about men's vs. women's
attitudes about marriage. A surpising statement I've run across is
that although women are supposed feel good when married, they are
feeling less 'good' about it, whereas men have a sense of well being in
marriage, which contrasts with their reluctance to 'commit'.
-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu
Xref: sparky soc.history:7352 rec.arts.books:14642
From: hernan@cc.gatech.edu (Hernan Astudillo R.)
Subject: He ain't no cold Turkey...
Reply-To: hernan@cc.gatech.edu
Organization: College of Computing, Georgia Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 22:59:15 GMT

Dear soc.historians:
	I found this in "news.lists".  Yes, we are honored to have among us
one of the top excreters, ahem, posters in the whole world...

> Article 292 of news.lists:
> Subject: Top 25 News Submitters by User by number of articles for the last 2 w
> Sender: usenet@uunet.uu.net (News Statistics)
> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1992 03:30:13 GMT
> 
>          No. of       % of
> Rank Articles KBytes Total   User
> [...]
>   13   151     573.6  0.1%   han@anadolu.MICHIGAN.COM  (hasan.b.mutlu)
> 			      16% of soc.culture.turkish
> 			      15% of soc.culture.europe
> 			      15% of soc.culture.greek
> 			      15% of talk.politics.mideast
> 			      15% of talk.politics.soviet
> 			      14% of soc.history

--hernan
Disclaimer:  GIT has no idea of, much less opinion about any mutluosities.
--			| "If the misery of our poor be caused not by laws of
Hernan Astudillo R.	|  nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin".
hernan@cc.gatech.edu	|		-- Charles Darwin,"Voyage of the Beagle"
College of Computing, Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332 / (404) 853-9390
Xref: sparky soc.history:7323 soc.culture.yugoslavia:7940
From: re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Radu Eugen Edelstein)
Newsgroups: soc.history,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Re: Irony continues in our history
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:31:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.keWoIlC00WB6MQlco4
Organization: Masters student, Information Networking Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Josip writes:
Croatia constitution and other laws guarantee its Serbian minority full equality,
cultural autonomy, etc.  Croatia is not interested in "ruling over" anyone --
"ruling over" simply does not pay.


I say:
There was an article in Newsweek about Croatians and Serbians in
neighboring vilages, at the border between Serbia and Croatia, who
were trying to exchange properties (in one case one whole village
made an offer to another village).
Newsweek claimed that it was a reaction to the new legislation
in Croatia to forbid sale of property and other big items to
"foreigners".  If this type of limiting legislation is indeed
in effect, should I expect a correction of your statement on
your part ?

Rad
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: brian@odie.cs.mun.ca (Brian Paquet)
Subject: Re: Chinese Meet Romans?
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 00:39:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug22.175856.6893@nntp.hut.fi> c34657b@saha.hut.fi (Tuomas Viljanen) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.172229.8035@acuson.com> miklg@acuson.com (Michael Goldman ) writes:
>
>>Might China have become as fragmented by contending groups in the
>>2nd century as they were in the early 20th?  Could the Romans
>>have found some puppets able to raise armies on their behalf?
>
>Certainly ! The Han empire, in fact, split up 220 AD in three kingdoms; Wei, 
>Shu and Wu. Wu later conquered the three others, becoming the Zin empire, 
>
>One can just imagine the opportunities a Macchiavellian politician like Caesar
>or someone similar would have had in that country. Seems like the Chinese have
>only two forms of rulership: dictatorship or anarchy... :-)

It's not the same thing but the roman empire was also split off
into two parts [and later 4]. Now if there was a big powerfull empire
nearby, I am sure they would of been able to set them off against each other.
Also didn't gaul break off for a few years? [Probable those german soldiers..]
I think just about everyone is vulnerable to Macchivellian tactics,
the only way to prevent being a victom of this is to have enought power to
crush those who screw you.
[Or fake it..:)]

But hey, I ain't no PhD  Yet...
Volcano

Newsgroups: soc.history
From: mss2@quads.uchicago.edu (Michael S. Schiffer)
Subject: Re: What happened in 1419?
Keywords: "we shall not see them relit in our lifetime"
Reply-To: mss2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 04:22:18 GMT

In article <57414@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Larry Jewell) writes:
>In article <171m7kINNetf@agate.berkeley.edu> sachs@lhasa.berkeley.edu (Rainer Sachs) writes:
>
>>3. By just reversing pairs you get 1914.  I assume
>>your friend knows 1914 as the famous year in
>>which England for once had truly superb summer weather
>>(well at least during May, June and July).
>
>But don't Europeans traditionally take their holidays in August?  August that 
>year was great, weather-wise, for taking large numbers of young men on outings.

Oh, indeed, indeed.  According to some books, more young British men
chose to spend part of August, 1914 in France than in any previous
year for which records were kept.  In addition, this sojourn was much
more democratic than previous years had been-- where before, French
holidays required a fairly high expenditure, in 1914 new government
programs made it possible for even the poorest lads to see la belle
France.  Sadly, the spectre of sexism remained-- very few women were
allowed to take advantage of this program.  But so successful was it
that by 1917 the Americans successfully clamored for a similar program for
their young men.  Alas, due to various considerations, there were
cutbacks in later years in both countries, but there's no question
that those who were able to participate did have a memorable time.

Mike

-- 
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS	"Workers of the world, forgive me.
mss2@midway.uchicago.edu	 You had more to lose than I thought."
mike.schiffer@um.cc.umich.edu	 -- Karl Marx (1990) as imagined by
mss2@usite-next.uchicago.edu     Jim Koncz (konc@midway.uchicago.edu)
From: ceb@dbrus.Unify.Com (Caroline E. Bryan)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: Civil War:  Battle Hymn of the Republic
Date: 13 Aug 92 20:23:12 GMT
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization

In article <22828@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> meyer@tcville.HAC.COM (Mike Meyer) writes:
>
>Can anybody here either fill me in or point me to a reference about the
>origin of the song "Battle Hymn of the Republic?"
>When was it written?  Did it pre-date the civil war?  Was it written as
>a propaganda song for the war?   Where was it first published or heard?
>Who is this Steffe-Howe person, anyway?
>The song "John Brown's Body" is a variant on the Battle Hymn; which came
>first?  Was the melody already around (like "The Star Spangled Banner") or
>was it composed?
>Any particularly inspiring little stories about it, a la "The Star Spangled
>Banner?"

The tune for Battle Hymn of the Republic predates both that poem and "John
Brown's Body".  The words for "John Brown's Body" were written and sung to
that tune in the early days of the Civil War (John Brown died shortly before
the CW started).  Julia Ward Howe was a New England poet.  During the Civil
War she had been reading accounts of battles in the newspapers.  One night
she dreamed the scene described in the first verse of the Battle Hymn, and
the next morning she wrote down the entire poem.  The poem was published
in several papers and someone had the brilliant idea of putting it to the
same tune as "John Brown's Body".  I don't know anything about any "Steffe",
but as Howe wrote the poem, I'd guess that a Steffe wrote the original tune.


Carrie		ceb@rechenau.unify.com	x6244
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|"To every hard problem, there's a simple solution, and it's wrong." - Turski |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu (Harold_Brooks)
Subject: Re: Civil War:  Battle Hymn of the Republic
Organization: NSSL
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 12:27:34 GMT

In article <22828@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> meyer@tcville.HAC.COM (Mike Meyer) writes:
>
>Can anybody here either fill me in or point me to a reference about the
>origin of the song "Battle Hymn of the Republic?"

Ken Burns' Civil War series, the companion volume, and Shelby Foote's
narrative all discuss the writing.

>
>When was it written?  Did it pre-date the civil war?  Was it written as
>a propaganda song for the war?   Where was it first published or heard?

Poet Julia Ward Howe, abolitionist and suffragette, wanted to do something to
contribute to the war effort.  (She apparently had helped finance John Brown's
raid.)  In her words, her husband "was too old for service, and her oldest
child was but a stripling.  I could not leave the nursery to follow the 
armies."  She was in Washington in the fall of 1861 and watched one of 
McClellan's impressive reviews.  That night, staying at the Willard Hotel,
she awoke from a dream and wrote out the words to the "Battle Hymn of the
Republic", to be sung to the tune of "John Brown's Body", which she had 
heard a New England regiment singing that day.  (Other people had discussed
the origin of the tune.)  She sold the poem to the _Atlantic Monthly_ for 
$4.  It appeared there in February 1862.

Harold
-- 
Harold Brooks                    hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu
National Severe Storms Laboratory/CIMMS (Norman, OK)
Andres Galarraga (Through 12 August)  .230 BA  .352 SLG  .268 OBA
26 H away from .300  7 HBP  6 BB    669+ PA w/o a sacrifice
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: brian@odie.cs.mun.ca (Brian Paquet)
Subject: Re: Chinese Meet Romans?
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 00:33:48 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.172229.8035@acuson.com> miklg@acuson.com (Michael Goldman ) writes:
>It seems to me that one thing the Romans were truly superb in
>was finding a way to divide and conquer.  They were almost
>always able to find allies within the potential enemy through
>bribery, or promises of power, or simply finding who hated whom.
>I don't know that the Chinese were better or worse at that game

I believe the chinese had a policy of paying off the northen nomads
[nomad the politically correct term for barbarian:)]
I believe the crushed the Huns absorbing half of them and forcing the
western half towards the Roman empire with effects we all know.
Both empires were good at manipulating the folks at the borders,
for that matter I believe the "roman tactics" were also esposed
in Sun Tsu's art of war  somewhere.. [I could look it up..

But hey I ain't no PhD.