HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper)
Subject: Re: Switch Heaters?
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:31:43 GMT

> Calvin Henry-Cotnam writes:
>
> Specifically, Rule 104.2(c):
>
> (ii) the hand throw lever is operated until the switch points move in
>      both directions with the movement of the hand throw lever; and
>
> My question is, is sub-clause (ii) saying that you have to fully test
> the switch points by throwing them to the desired route then returning them
> to the normal route, after which sub-clause (iii) allows you to line
> the switch for movement?


Wow, you DO know your rules!  I usually generalize when talking on this group
rather than spout off rule numbers and such that the average reader may not
know...not that this is bad!  :-)

What Para ii refers to is the moving of the handle on a dual-control switch.
When you take one out of Power and place it in Hand position (removing
control from the dispatcher and basically placing it in "Local" mode if you
will), you must move the handle back and forth, back and forth until you get
control of the switch points (ie they move the same time as the handle).  The
manual throw handle is not engaged or connected to the points while it is in
Power, and thus when you pop it to Hand, you have to engage the mechanism
inside so that the handle is connected mechanically to the points and thus
you can line the switch.  Usually it will catch as soon as you make one arc
with the switch, but I always throw it a few times just to be sure.

Also, the reason you wait for the leading wheels of the unit to hit the
switch before putting it back to power is to make sure it does not
mechanically (under power) line itself the wrong way.  When the wheels are on
the bond of the switch, and you return it to power, it will not move.

Hope that helps,


--

 steve_hooper@mindlink.bc.ca   []  The Great White North in
 OR      a777@mindlink.bc.ca   []   Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Conductor on the Cascade Sub.  []         CP Rail
                     Opinions are my OWN!
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: cal@ee.ryerson.ca (Calvin Henry-Cotnam)
Subject: Re: VIA and CN (was Re: VIA Station Codes)
Keywords: Trains, planes & automobiles
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:28:14 GMT

nzr20@meadow.UUCP (Nicholas Russon) writes:
> cal@ee.ryerson.ca (Calvin Henry-Cotnam) writes:
>>
>>The rest of the timetable is additional information, rules and regulations,
>>seating diagrams, and pretty pictures.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>I'd certainly not want this information dropped out of what's left
>of the TT!

Neither would I, but in order to give an accurate description of just
how small the timetabling information is, it was necessary to point out.
The original poster had thought that the TT for an entire nation could
be almost 1" thick in pages -- this is not the case in Canada.

>>Our wonderful government has really cut our service to the bone.
>     ^^^^^^^^^
>Notation for the sarcasm impaired among the readership: Calvin is
>not actually a fan of the current Canadian government.  ;-)

All other issues aside, can anyone reading this newsgroup honestly
state that they would be pleased with a government that did the following?
Get elected because of promises, one of which was to restore passenger
rail service cut by the previous government.  After elected, they DID
come through with this promise, only to cut the same services, plus others
a couple of years later.

>Face it, Canadian railways would
>be radically different organizations if the governments (at all levels)
>could keep a hands-off attitude to travel.

Absolutely true.  The problem is, that any subsidization that the
railways receive is tangable in the eyes of the tax payer.  ie, it is
a definate dollar figure that is part of a government budget.

The airlines, bus companies, and trucking companies do not receive any
such tangable dollar contribution (Canadian Airlines Int'l not counted
as they are only getting a "loan guaranty" which is not a cash subsidy
unless they go under -- a lot like student loans!).  But dollar for
dollar, they receive *more* subsidies than the railways when one considers
that they don't have to maintain their right-of-ways, or their terminal
facilities, etc.


Calvin Henry-Cotnam, CATE          | "...My brain IBM"
Ryerson Polytechnical Institute    | "So if you see me, acting stangely..."
Toronto, Ontario, Canada           |                  STYX, Mr. Roboto
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper)
Subject: Re: Railroad Signals
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:53:37 GMT

> Tom Vervaeke writes:
>
>     * When the signal is not lit at all, there are no trains in the
>       block.
>
>     * When the signal is on there is a train somewhere in the block but
>       I can't tell which direction.


Correct, for the most part.  There are exceptions, but for the most part,
that's correct

>
>     * Green means proceed, red means stop, yellow means slow or caution.


Again, lots of variations.  Usually, in CTC, Green is "Clear" (Go like
hell!), Yellow is "Approach" (Approach the next signal prepared to stop), and
Red is "Stop" (whoa horsey!).

Sometimes the Red can be a "Restricting"...depends on the railroad and rule
book they are using.  This means "Proceed, preparing to stop within one-half
the range of vision being on the lookout for broken rail, switches lined
incorectly etc and in no case exceeding 15 mph".  This allows for trains to
get bunched up, rather than have them waiting at each signal.  A train, under
this signal indication, can in fact crawl right up to within a few feet of
the guy ahead, since reverse movements on ANY mainline (without proper
authority) is forbidden.

--

 steve_hooper@mindlink.bc.ca   []  The Great White North in
 OR      a777@mindlink.bc.ca   []   Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Conductor on the Cascade Sub.  []         CP Rail
                     Opinions are my OWN!
From: rrw@sunset.cse.nau.edu (Bob Wier)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Grand Canyon Railway
Date: 18 Dec 92 09:11:13 GMT
Originator: rrw@sunset.cse.nau.edu

From article <3d6K02l22f8i01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>, by jaz00@diag.amdahl.com (Joe Zuk):
> Theres been some talk about the Grand Canyon Railway on the net
> the last few days; so here is a short trip report that I did on
> the railway last year. They may have gotten more equipment since
> I wrote this so please feel free to update it.
> 
    --- Good information deleted ---

 When the GCR was getting started, the ceo (I forget his name) came in
 and gave a talk (it was either engineer's day or commencement - this was
 probably 4 years ago or so).  The tracks has last been used in 1968 and
 basically abandoned since then.  When I was up at the Canyon in 1987 the
 station really looked bad at that time (peeling paint, broken windows,
 high weeds - it looked really nasty compared with the El Tovar).  Anyway,
 a lot of people were pretty skeptical here because mutiple  schemes to
 bring the RR back to life had gone on over the years and nothing had
 ever come of it.

 I'm happy to say that the current company proved everybody wrong and 
 they are doing an outstanding job.  And apparantly making money to boot.
 
 One thing to bear in mind if you come up to Williams to catch the GCR
 is that Santa Fe also passes thru Williams (I can't recall if there
 is still a direct connection between SF and the GCR or not.  I seem
 to remember that the rails had been taken out, but I may be wrong on
 that...) Anyway - the SF line thru Flagstaff/Williams is about the
 busiest I've seen anywhere - from 50 to 80 heavy freights plus 
 Amtrak a day.  If you have an auto, there are a number of outstanding
 photo opportunities around, depending on the weather and what 
 equipment is being used.  Earlier this fall I put out for ftp a number
 of maintanence equipment photos I took in the Flag yard of things like
 track grinders, cranes, etc... while they had been pulled in from all
 over the No. Az section for pre-winter maintanence.

 I guess it does take a certain kind of person to enjoy the GCR, though.
 I've heard a number of people say that it takes too long as far as they
 are concerned.  Ah, modern times....   :-)

- Bob Wier

  ---------- insert favorite standard disclaimers here ----------
                   College of Engineering
      Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff Arizona
  Internet: rrw@naucse.cse.nau.edu | WB5KXH | fax:602 523 2300
From: Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: The value (if any) of B units
Date: 18 Dec 92 20:50:53 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

> Bill Smith writes:
>
> I too seem to remember a recent article about some railroad boarding up
> or painting over the windows of  A  units and removing the controls,
> turning them into   B  units essentially.   I don't remember why
> they had decided to do this now.
>


Heh, that's my employer...CP.  They boarded up the windows, removed every
single appliance (from speedo to ditch lights to wipers), and tore the cab
out.  The only thing left is the control stand which has basic controls and
that's it.

Why?  Who the hell knows...some stupid idea from someone who has never been
in the field.  We have been fighting for decent cab conditions since they
went cabooseless in 1990.  So far they have re-furbuished 20 units.  CN is
pumping out 30 per MONTH and we get 20 in almost 3 years!  Yet when it was
decided to turn those units to slugs (I know they are not actual slugs, but
that term seems to have stuck to them), they pumped out 40 in a matter of
months.  As usual, the men come last.

They are a pain in the ass.  Imagine being crammed in the lead cab with three
other men.  Then imagine you are a smoker (I am) and no one else is.  Well,
in the summer, my favourite spot is right behind the hog's seat on the
catwalk outside.  Beautiful scenery, wind rushing through your hair.  Now
imagine it's raining or it's winter.  We always walk back to the second unit.
Now, you get back there and discover there is NO windows, NO chairs, NO heat,
nothing.  And you only have TWO units.  Yer screwed!

Another scenario.  When we run grain trains through our terminal (Coquitlam)
right to Vancouver, we have to run the power light back to Coquitlam.  So you
set your train out, pick up your slaves, only to discover the trailing slave
is a slug.  Well, you cannot back up without someone on the point, and I'll
be god-damned if I will ride the platform the almost 20 miles of 40mph track
back to Coquitlam.  So we call a taxi and leave the power there to be picked
up by a transfer.


--

 steve_hooper@mindlink.bc.ca   []  The Great White North in
 OR      a777@mindlink.bc.ca   []   Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Conductor on the Cascade Sub.  []         CP Rail
                     Opinions are my OWN!
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: nzr20@meadow.uucp (Nicholas Russon)
Subject: Thomas and Friends
Followup-To: rec.railroad
Summary: Are there actual prototypes for the engines in STS?
Keywords: Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends
Reply-To: nzr20@meadow.UUCP (Nicholas Russon)
Organization: Amdahl Canada Ltd., Software Development Centre
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 20:29:39 GMT


My son (age 22 months) is addicted to Shining Time Station/Thomas 
the Tank Engine and Friends. At his age, he's not too worried about 
such details as scale or historical accuracy. Just in case he ever
gets around to asking about British railways and the relationship
between his current favourite engine (James the Red Engine, or as he
is known to Victor "Jaym") and reality, I'd like to be able to say 
something halfway intelligent about it ("...of course, son, James 
is based on an LNER mixed traffic engine from the early 1900s..."). 
I'm sure that some magazine has probably done an article on the 
prototypes (or lack thereof) for the various characters in the series.

I've had to be in the same room with the VCR for the last year, and I'm
curious about which engines the Rev. Awdry was modelling his creations
on, and I hope someone has already found this information. There was an 
article in Model Railroader several months ago, but I don't recall it 
answering my question. Can any of the British railfans help me out on 
this?

I don't need a lot of information, but knowing which railway designed
and built similar engines during approximately what time period would be
more than satisfactory.

Regards,
Nicholas


-- 
Nicholas Russon    nzr20@meadow.uucp           | Prostitution is merely sex
Amdahl Canada      nzr20@amail.amdahl.com      | plus free enterprise. Which
416-542-6530       nicholas.russon@canrem.uucp | part do you object to?
416-750-0979       nick@bedrock.guild.org      |           (Anonymous)
From: jmd@bear.com (Josh Diamond)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: San Jose/Santa Cruz 6,200 ft tunnel
Date: 11 Dec 92 21:57:25 GMT
Organization: Bear, Stearns & Co. - FAST
In-reply-to: js@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM's message of 7 Dec 92 18:06:30 GMT


In article <3440013@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> js@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Jon Sawyer) writes:

   In rec.railroad, jim@specialix.com (Jim Maurer) writes:

   >   In 1944 the tunnel was sealed at both ends with dynamite because
   >   people feared that Japanese saboteurs would use the tunnel to hide
   >   out.  In the '70s some geologists probed the tunnel and found that
   >   it had filled up with natural gas.  (Gas had been a big headache
   >   for the railroad when the tunnel was in use.)

   Reading this, it naturally occurs to one that there exists a simple
   solution to both removing the gas *and* re-opening the tunnel portals
   for subsequent spelunking.

It probably wouldn't be as big a bang as you think -- you need both 
gas _and_ oxygen to have an explosion...

   I think I'd like to be in another state, however, when the >6000'
   cylinder of natural gas ignited.  I wonder if the portal "plugs" would
   reach escape velocity?  That would be quite an achievement, given that
   most railroad tunnels are at a nearly perfect tangent to the surface
   of the earth.

This isn't railroad related, but during the atomic bomb testing
program in the 50's someone had the great idea of putting a
muti-megaton weapon at the bottom of a 200ft pit drilled into the
desert bedrock.  They put a thick steel plate over the top of the pit.
They never did find that plate, despite searching for over a year.  It
was probably the first man-made object to reach earth escape velocity
-- beating the US and Soviet space programs by several years...

				Spidey!!!

--
You don't hunt ducks with a turnip! 

 /\ \  / /\  Josh Diamond                                          jmd@bear.com
//\\ .. //\\ AKA Spidey!!!                        ...!ctr.columbia.edu!ursa!jmd
//\((  ))/\\
/  < `' >  \                                              Do whatever it takes.
From: btiffany@pbs.org
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Up and down trains (and Southern Pacific!)
Date: 20 Dec 92 16:11:48 GMT
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

In article <1992Dec16.083611.26849@mailhost.ocs.mq.edu.au>, eoliver@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au (Eddie Oliver) writes:

> At least the American practice of using west/east or north/south largely
> solves the problem, but even there, there seem to be cases which are rather
> perverse (i.e. nominally eastbound trains travelling geographically west).

Some railroads are strictly north/south, or strictly east/west, depending on
their primary orientation, which means that secondary routes which might go
in different directions have to conform.  I believe BN is an example.

On SP anything going towards San Francisco was heading west, and anything
going away from San Francisco was heading east.  This caused some problems
for Amtrak, because the COAST STARLIGHT northbound from Los Angeles to
Portland was SP #11 to Oakland, and SP #12 to Portland (one train).  The
southbound train was SP #13 to Oakland and SP #14 to L.A..  At least this
was the situation a decade ago when I worked in Oakland.  I hope I got
the numbers right, but if I didn't, you at least get the idea.  The
timetable direction on SP from Los Angeles to the Bay Area is west, and
from the Bay Area to Oregon is east.

-- Bruce Tiffany
From: bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Unusual tunnels?
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 13:43:25 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: 1776 Enterprises, Sudbury MA

wcsswag@alfred.carleton.ca (The Charlatan) writes:
>   In Canada, there is least one spirial tunnel, that is Kicking Horse
> Pass. It is located in the Western Rockies.

Is that the summit of Field Hill (on the CPR west of Banff, Alberta)?  There 
are two spiral tunnels on Field Hill: upper and lower.  I believe you can see
all four portals from the road (although possibly not all four from the same
vantage point).  There are turnouts with signs posted telling you where to
look.  At least there were when I was there in 1977.

I hadn't mentioned these tunnels because I assumed that Steve Hooper would
jump in and tell us about them.  I'm sure he knows more about them than I
do.   :^)

   ___            _                                           -  Bob
   /__) _   /    / ) _   _
(_/__) (_)_(_)  (___(_)_(/_______________________________________ bob@1776.COM
Robert K. Coe ** 14 Churchill St, Sudbury, Massachusetts 01776 ** 508-443-3265
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: Rich.Rubel@launchpad.unc.edu (Rich Rubel)
Subject: old railroad-related books
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:07:15 GMT


I was cleaning off some shelves at home and came across sopme books I'd
forgotten I owned.  These might be interesting references, and though I
won't sell them I think I can photocopy parts of them for interested
parties.   
  One's a Westinghouse Air Brake instruction book dated 1902, published in
Pittsburgh and inscribed with the name "D. S. Ryan, Chisolm, Minn".  It's
chock full of line-drawn plates of the brake system of steam engines and
cars, and explanations of what each part of the system does.
  The other's entitled "The Traveling Engineers' Association Examination
Questions and Answers.  For Firemen for promotion and new men for
employment".  Revised edition, January 1924.  It contains a multitude of
questions and answers on running a steam engine, including
trouble-shooting and trackside repairs.  It also includes a list of
definitions and a table of train speeds (if you pass two mileposts in X
seconds, you're doing Y mph).
[RICHR]
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: wcsswag@alfred.carleton.ca (The Charlatan)
Subject: Re: Unusual tunnels?
Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 05:08:35 GMT

  In Canada, there is least one spirial tunnel, that is Kicking Horse
Pass. It is located in the Western Rockies.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: The Railroad List
From: Geert K. Marien <GKMQC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Friday, 11 Dec 1992 19:52:45 EST

  RAILROAD on LISTSERV@CUNYVM : The list for Railfans and Railroaders!
                 (For Internet access: CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU)

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real and model.

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   To subscribe, you may send  an interactive message (from BITNET sites
which provide such a facility), or mail (with the command as the body of
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   The command should be in the form:

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                               ** End **
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: cal@ee.ryerson.ca (Calvin Henry-Cotnam)
Subject: Re: Davis (CA) accident - idiot of the month!
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:55:32 GMT

hill@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Rich Hill) writes:
>
> [description of an idiot trying to drive down the ROW delteted]
>
>The car (a Cadillac) was basically nonexistant the front seats back, ....
>

More importantly, what type of locomotive was on the train ?!?


         :-)



Calvin Henry-Cotnam, CATE          | "...My brain IBM"
Ryerson Polytechnical Institute    | "So if you see me, acting stangely..."
Toronto, Ontario, Canada           |                  STYX, Mr. Roboto
From: hill@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Rich Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Davis (CA) accident - idiot of the month!
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:16:48 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: U.C. Davis - Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science

The westbound Capitol from Sacramento to Oakland and San Jose derailed just
east of Davis last night (about 6:00 pm) after someone hung a left turn
at a grade crossing and tried to drive down the tracks.  Seems this guy got
about 100 feet before getting stuck, grabbing some of his stuff, and leaving
his car.  The CHP was trying to notify Southern Pacific when the Capitol
came by and destroyed the car and a few hundred yards of ties and track.  The
results were pretty spectacular - The car (a Cadillac) was basically 
nonexistant the front seats back, it's a good thing noone was inside.  There
was a small fire but that was put out quickly.  The locmotive and cars
remained upright but one of the rails fell over.  There were 37 passengers
and 4 crew - none were seriously injured.  Apperently, service (passenger
and freight) will not be disrupted much because the other track (this section
is double tracked) was not damaged.  SP figures repairs will cost approx.
$21,000 and be completed in a few days.

So....what was this guy thinking???  The CHP said he did not smell like he
had been drinking but he did resist arrest and get in a scuffle with them.
He was eventually arrested and taken to a local hospital (for some unknown
reason).

Can Amtrak/SP sue in a situation like this?  Are they likely to?

Rich Hill
hill@eecs.ucdavis.edu
From: ford@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Harry Ford)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Switch Heaters?
Date: 15 Dec 92 20:21:19 GMT
Reply-To: ford@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Harry Ford)
Distribution: usa
Organization: ADVANCED DOUBLE HULL DESIGN TEAM

In rec.railroad, tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke) writes:
>
>natural gas line (I looked for a meter). I felt the switch and all
>surrounding equipment with my hand for heat and did not find any (it was
>about 10 degrees F outside). This is a busy intersection. Within about

    This is an absolutely wonderful way of learning first hand about
how skin freezes to metal at low temperatures. I would suggest that
you not do this is the future otherwise....

>
>I waited in hope of a southbound train so the switch would have to be
>reset. No luck. Had to make it home to the family for dinner


    Your wish might come true..

harry
-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+  Before space was invented........    +                                  +
+                                       +  ...Time had no place to go!     +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: rec.railroad