HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sr072@mesrx.com (Santanu Ray)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Traffic Tickets !
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:41:42 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Measurex, Corporation    "The Results Company"

I recently moved to the bay area from Louisiana, and still haven't
gotten around to getting my CA driving licence. But I have managed
to collect TWO tickets already :-(. 

I got the first one while taking a turn (left) as the light was turning
red - I was already into the turn when the light went from yellow to red and
didn't think it prudent to stop in the middle of the intersection, but
the cop didn't agree. The second was a speeding ticket I got last night
(80 on 55 - 101 near Woodside Road). Now here comes my questions :

	- What are the chances that these violations (assuming that I
	  get convicted for both) will appear on my CA driving record
	  if I get a CA licence BEFORE my court appearences/fine payments?

	- What kind of fine am I looking at for the speeding violation
	  (somebody told me it'll be in the range of $400, is that     
	  correct?)

	- How many "points" will it be on my record (assuming ....)
	  and what does that translate into in terms of insurance
	  premiums (I drive a 300 ZX turbo and currently pay $1300
	  per year)?

	- Somebody also told me that insurance rates do not go up unless
	  you have 4 or more points on your record; is this correct?

	- Any suggestions as to how I might end up not paying for
	  the tickets or at least not have them appear on my CA driving
	  record? 

	- What are the chances of the charge(s) being dropped if I
	  appear in court?

Hints/advice/suggestions urgently needed.

Thanx in advance.

santanu.
sr072@stest.measurex.com
ray_s@measurex.com

=======================================================================
So long as I have a need, I have a reason for living, satisfaction is
death - Mark Twain
=======================================================================
.
Xref: sparky ca.driving:2221 news.answers:3442
From: markp@pro-palmtree.socal.com (Mark Panitz)
Subject: Re: Traffic Tickets !
Organization: The Palmtree BBS - 310/453-8726 - Santa Monica, CA
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 01:19:03 GMT

it depend if Louisna state has a traffic ticket agreement with California
(I think)
From: asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: fine-based restriction on driving school
Date: 9 Oct 92 19:08:32 GMT
            <1992Oct7.055446.23807@netcom.com>
            <1b1le3INNhv2@news.aero.org>
Reply-To: asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Distribution: ca
Organization: Foundation for the Increased Wealth of Chipmunks

Written in article <1b1le3INNhv2@news.aero.org>
 by helfman@aero.org (Robert S. Helfman):

: In 1989, my idiot friend Darren insisted on
: smoking a cigarette in my car. When he finished, did he put it out
: in the ashtray? No, he tossed it out the open sunroof, still lit.
: Guess where it landed? On the windshield of the CHP car behind me,
: spraying sparks. The CHP stopped me and started to write a ticket to
: me. I just thought the driver automatically gets the ticket. But
: midway through the writing process, I asked him and he said, "I saw
: YOU toss it." I told him I don't even smoke. He said, "well, you should
: have said something before I started writing."

You should have FOUGHT that one!!  You could have brought some friends
along to testify to your non-smoking status.  The cop might even fail to
show, assuming he's now aware that he ticketed the wrong person.

-- 
The Chipmunk.
Opinions are mine, void where prohibited, taxed, licensed or regulated.
What this country needs is a good five cent ANYTHING!
Newsgroups: ca.driving
From: dman@netcom.com (Dallman Ross)
Subject: Re: fine-based restriction on driving school
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 05:54:46 GMT

Ari Ollikainen (ari@leland.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
: >> I have a $271 fine 
: 
: Couldn't stay out of the CarPool lane, eh?
: 
I suspect something else.  I think the carpool lane is $276.  Also, it
would be not the best strategy to waste traffic school on a carpool-lane
ticket, as your insurance company probably doesn't count it as a
point that will raise your rates.  CSAA doesn't, for example.

The answer to the poster's original question is that each county
jurisdiction has its own traffic-school rules.  Some counties don't even
*have* traffic school to get out of DMV points (Sacramento, for example,
I believe -- though I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong with
that one).  So the best thing to do is to call the court clerk.

-- 
 __D_a l_l m a_n  _ R o_s s _ |dman@netcom.com  /or/  |"You sound like a man|
 l  \\ l\\   /l  /\\  l\\   l |dross@well.sf.ca.us    |with a rubber nose." |
 l   >)l \\ /ll /  \\ l \\  l |vox/fax: 1.510.645.1883| -- One-Lung Bill    |
 l  // l  \X ll/--- \\l  \\ l |350 Perkins St., #108  |     Remmer (deceased)
_l//______________________\\l_|Oakland,_CA__94610-3422|_____________________|_
From: helfman@aero.org (Robert S. Helfman)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
Subject: Re: fine-based restriction on driving school
Date: 8 Oct 1992 15:51:31 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Distribution: ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: aerospace.aero.org

In article <1992Oct7.055446.23807@netcom.com> dman@netcom.com (Dallman Ross) writes:
>Ari Ollikainen (ari@leland.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
>: >> I have a $271 fine 
>: 
>: Couldn't stay out of the CarPool lane, eh?
>: 
>I suspect something else.  I think the carpool lane is $276.  Also, it
>would be not the best strategy to waste traffic school on a carpool-lane
>ticket, as your insurance company probably doesn't count it as a
>point that will raise your rates.  CSAA doesn't, for example.

I wouldn't be so sure. In 1989, my idiot friend Darren insisted on
smoking a cigarette in my car. When he finished, did he put it out
in the ashtray? No, he tossed it out the open sunroof, still lit.
Guess where it landed? On the windshield of the CHP car behind me,
spraying sparks. The CHP stopped me and started to write a ticket to
me. I just thought the driver automatically gets the ticket. But
midway through the writing process, I asked him and he said, "I saw
YOU toss it." I told him I don't even smoke. He said, "well, you should
have said something before I started writing." I let it go, knowing that
my idiot friend Darren had a warrant from an old ticket and that if they
ran a make on him, he would spend the weekend in County Jail (it was a
Friday night).

Not only did idiot friend Darren never pay me the $84 ("Throwing a
Lighted Substance"; thank God it wasn't littering, that's $500.) but
my insurer - the Auto Club of Southern Calif. (AAA) - surcharged me
$134 for three consecutive years for that miserable ticket.

Needless to say, no one smokes in my car any more AND I kill them for
tossing so much as a bubble-gum wrapper out the window.


Newsgroups: ca.driving
From: jtc@gain.com (J.T. Conklin)
Subject: What can be done to get a car off the road???
Organization: Gain Technology, Inc., Palo Alto, CA
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 02:35:38 GMT

A few months ago, I was driving to downtown San Francisco to pick up
my fiance about 10:00 pm.  While changing lanes, I nearly collided
with a car without any headlights on.  I couldn't see it until it was
nearly too late, even though I checked my mirrors and glanced over my
shoulder before merging.

Since that date, I've seen the car at least once a week (Our schedules
must match or something), always without its headlights on.  Am I the
only one that thinks that this is dangerous?  Is there anything that
can be done to force the owner to fix its headlights?

Thanks,

	--jtc

--
J.T. Conklin	GAIN Technology, Inc.
		Palo Alto, California
Newsgroups: ca.driving
From: ari@leland.Stanford.EDU (Ari Ollikainen)
Subject: Re: fine-based restriction on driving school
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: ca
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:09:58 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.055446.23807@netcom.com> dman@netcom.com (Dallman Ross) writes:
>>Ari Ollikainen (ari@leland.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
>>: >> I have a $271 fine 
>>: 
>>: Couldn't stay out of the CarPool lane, eh?
>>: 
>>I suspect something else.  I think the carpool lane is $276.  Also, it

It's an interesting USENET phenomenon that someone would quibble over 
a specific number like this. The reason I responded as I did was that
*I* pass several signs on my commute each day which say: 

	...MINIMUM FINE $ 271 ...

for violating the CarPool lane occupancy minimum. This particular set 
of signs is in the approach(es) to the toll booths at the Dunbarton 
(and San Mateo) Bridge(s). Can you cite the location of the *sign*
which supports  *your* figure?

Hmmm...??


Newsgroups: ca.driving
From: dman@netcom.com (Dallman Ross)
Subject: Re: fine-based restriction on driving school
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Distribution: ca
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 14:46:36 GMT

Ari Ollikainen (ari@leland.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
: It's an interesting USENET phenomenon that someone would quibble over 
: a specific number like this. The reason I responded as I did was that
: *I* pass several signs on my commute each day which say: 
: 
: 	...MINIMUM FINE $ 271 ...

If by interesting you mean unexpected, I don't agree.  This is just a big
conversation, and I felt like adding my thoughts.  You are now part of the
phenomenon yourself.

:                  Can you cite the location of the *sign*
: which supports  *your* figure?
: 
: Hmmm...??

No, you are making a false assumption: that a *sign* is the only evidence
or the best evidence.  I never said you had no right to your guess.  I
just stated why I had a *different* guess.  My reasons were not a sign,
but a check I wrote to the local muni court for violating the same
law; and the considered surmisal that someone would likely not "waste"
traffic school on a ticket that wouldn't affect his or her insurance
rates.  (At least not somebody who reads this newsgroup.)

Now, can we stop the childish one-upmanship?

Hmmm...??

--
 __D_a l_l m a_n  _ R o_s s _ |dman@netcom.com  /or/  |"You sound like a man|
 l  \\ l\\   /l  /\\  l\\   l |dross@well.sf.ca.us    |with a rubber nose." |
 l   >)l \\ /ll /  \\ l \\  l |vox/fax: 1.510.645.1883| -- One-Lung Bill    |
 l  // l  \X ll/--- \\l  \\ l |350 Perkins St., #108  |     Remmer (deceased)
_l//______________________\\l_|Oakland,_CA__94610-3422|_____________________|_
Newsgroups: ca.driving
From: jet@boxer.nas.nasa.gov (J. Eric Townsend)
Subject: Re: fine-based restriction on driving school
	<1b1le3INNhv2@news.aero.org>
Organization: Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation, NASA Ames
Date: 8 Oct 92 10:34:18
Distribution: ca

Ari Ollikainen (ari@leland.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
>> I have a $271>fine
>Couldn't stay out of the CarPool lane, eh?


I have a motorcycle, I'm *allowed* to ride in the carpool lane.  I was
cited for 85 in a 55 (280N, 8am, sunday, grr...).  I was only doing
75, but there's no way for me to prove it.

So I went to see the judge at Redwood City, he lowered the fine, but
after court costs and fees, I paid them $296.  But I get to take
traffic school...


--
             J. Eric Townsend --  jet@nas.nasa.gov -- 415.604.4311
                              '92 R100R, DoD# 0378
"I love the iPSC/860.
The iPSC/860 is my friend." (repeat until your code runs...)
Newsgroups: ca.driving
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: LA subway opens Oct 26
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Distribution: ca
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 21:53:51 GMT


Pomona to downtown segment I heard on the radio.
Newsgroups: ca.driving
From: dman@netcom.com (Dallman Ross)
Subject: Re: fine-based restriction on driving school
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Distribution: ca
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 06:37:03 GMT

Robert S. Helfman (helfman@aero.org) wrote:
:                                                I let it go, knowing that
: my idiot friend Darren had a warrant from an old ticket and that if they
: ran a make on him, he would spend the weekend in County Jail (it was a
: Friday night).
: 
: Not only did idiot friend Darren never pay me the $84 ("Throwing a
: Lighted Substance"; thank God it wasn't littering, that's $500.) but
: my insurer - the Auto Club of Southern Calif. (AAA) - surcharged me
: $134 for three consecutive years for that miserable ticket.

Wow, that sure sucks.  I'd heard that different insurance companies had
their own lists of which non-moving-violations "counted," but that's
ridiculous.

When I got a carpool lane ticket on the Bay Bridge approach (who'd've
thought they'd turn the carpool lanes back on at 3 p.m. Westbound?!),
CSAA at first told me it *would* raise count against me, so I fought
the ticket and lost.  (Appealed the loss and lost again.)  But it
turned out they didn't count it after all.

I suppose it's conceiveable that CSAA and ACSC as different branches
could have different "lists."

My only question for you at this point is, why didn't you fight the ticket
in court later (after your friend was safely away from being nabbed)?

--
 __D_a l_l m a_n  _ R o_s s _ |dman@netcom.com  /or/  |"You sound like a man|
 l  \\ l\\   /l  /\\  l\\   l |dross@well.sf.ca.us    |with a rubber nose." |
 l   >)l \\ /ll /  \\ l \\  l |vox/fax: 1.510.645.1883| -- One-Lung Bill    |
 l  // l  \X ll/--- \\l  \\ l |350 Perkins St., #108  |     Remmer (deceased)
_l//______________________\\l_|Oakland,_CA__94610-3422|_____________________|_
Newsgroups: ca.driving
From: rjc@devo.unify.com (Ronald Cole)
Subject: Re: Berkeley Traffic Court
Organization: Unify Corporation, Sacramento, California
Distribution: ba
Date: 11 Oct 92 19:02:27

In article <1992Oct6.222716.18762@netcom.com> dman@netcom.com (Dallman Ross) writes:
   Ronald Cole (rjc@devo.unify.com) wrote:
   : In a settled statement, it's the judge's statement that goes to the
   : appellate court...  Sounds pretty fair, huh?  I would do three things
   : at or after arraignment to improve my odds:

   Good advice, generally.  My understanding is that the defendant and the
   judge have to agree on a "settled statement" (usually at a special hearing).

Here is the relevant part of Rule 187, California Rules of Court,
interspersed with my commentary:

    "The appellant's specifications of grounds of appeal shall not in
     any case be eliminated from the settled statement.  [but your
     version of what happened in the courtroom to support those
     grounds will probably never make it into it.]  At the time of
     settlement the judge may direct the appellant to engross the
     statement ... as settled.  [in layman's terms: better look and
     see what is going to the Superior Court, son...  and good luck
     with your opening brief because you can't admit new evidence...
     like what really happened at the trial!]"

--
Ronald Cole           +----------------------+  internet: rjc@unify.com
Software Engineer II  |   Marrou/Lord  '92   |  uucp:     uunet!unify!rjc
Unify Corporation     +----------------------+  voice:    +1 916 928 6238
          "THE BILL OF RIGHTS --- Void where prohibited by law"
Newsgroups: ca.driving
From: dman@netcom.com (Dallman Ross)
Subject: Re: Traffic Tickets !
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Distribution: ca
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 06:45:32 GMT

Santanu Ray (sr072@mesrx.com) wrote:
: 	- What are the chances that these violations (assuming that I
: 	  get convicted for both) will appear on my CA driving record
: 	  if I get a CA licence BEFORE my court appearences/fine payments?

They won't go on your record before conviction.  But I believe the
recently-expanded interstate pact means that all tickets are reported
among the various states.  If convicted, you will eventually find the
tickets on your CA record, and your home state's, if your license there
remains valid.
: 
: 	- Somebody also told me that insurance rates do not go up unless
: 	  you have 4 or more points on your record; is this correct?

Not true, in the wake of Prop. 103.  Expect your $1300 rate to hit
at least $2800 through the *third year* following your convictions. 
Two tickets are all that's needed to raise rates 90% *plus* lose your
"good-driver discount."
: 
: 	- Any suggestions as to how I might end up not paying for
: 	  the tickets or at least not have them appear on my CA driving
: 	  record? 
: 
Buy _Fight Your Ticket_ by Brown.

: 	- What are the chances of the charge(s) being dropped if I
: 	  appear in court?

Too speculative to answer fairly; but a helluva lot better than if you
*don't* go to court!
 
: Hints/advice/suggestions urgently needed.
: 
Hire a lawyer.  Gail Dekreon in S.F. is cheap and good.  (SF Traffic
Clinic.)

: Thanx in advance.

You in a heap o' trouble, boy!

--
 __D_a l_l m a_n  _ R o_s s _ |dman@netcom.com  /or/  |"You sound like a man|
 l  \\ l\\   /l  /\\  l\\   l |dross@well.sf.ca.us    |with a rubber nose." |
 l   >)l \\ /ll /  \\ l \\  l |vox/fax: 1.510.645.1883| -- One-Lung Bill    |
 l  // l  \X ll/--- \\l  \\ l |350 Perkins St., #108  |     Remmer (deceased)
_l//______________________\\l_|Oakland,_CA__94610-3422|_____________________|_
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: ethanb@ptolemy.astro.washington.edu (Ethan Bradford)
Subject: The mysterious mrc (was Re: so, pro-windmill cadres...)
Cc: MRC@CAC
Organization: U. of Washington
	<1992Oct06.171942.805@ssc.com> <1992Oct7.152545.16581@tc.fluke.COM>
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 07:36:09 GMT

Mark is a full time and very competent programmer with UW's CAC.  He
has enjoyed taking controversial positions throughout the 12 years
which I have known him.  Any psychology he practices is a hobby,
though I'm sure he enjoys watching the reactions his postings engender.

-- Ethan
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: seth@polari.online.com
Subject: Re: needed: repair, espresso machine
Organization: Seattle Online Public Access Unix (206) 328-4944
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:28:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.042759.10566@nwnexus.WA.COM> gregory@halcyon.com (Gregory Wright) writes:
> The subject says it all. I blew the seal out on my machine and
>the steam keeps leaking around the "coffee bowl." 
>
>Any help?
>greg.
>
>machine: krups nova-33mhz 8mb......
>

Try Home Espresso Repair in Seattle (789-9513).  They have repaired my
espesso maker.  They do good work and have been nice to deal with.


-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|   Seth Siegal                                                    |
|   Internet:   seth@polari.online.com                             |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
Xref: sparky seattle.general:3327 misc.legal:18582 misc.consumers:17739
From: milan@bcsaic.boeing.com (Milan Richter)
Newsgroups: seattle.general,misc.legal,misc.consumers
Subject: HELP! Landlord refuses to return rent overpayment
Date: 12 Oct 92 18:05:51 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Boeing Computer Services

I need an advice on how to make my former landlord refund me part of my 
rent.

In the beginning of September I moved out of an apartment. Since I did 
not give 20 days notice, I had to pay rent for the whole month. (ThatUs 
fine, it was my mistake not to notify them earlier.) When I was leaving, 
I asked the manager of the complex if she could refund me part of the 
rent if someone moves in before the end of the month. She agreed.

On Sunday, September 27, I went back to see if the apartment is still 
unoccupied, and found that somebody moved in. I knocked on the door and 
spoke to the tenant - a lady. She said she just moved in on Friday. I 
explained why I was asking and she told me that she was assured by the 
manager she did not have to pay any rent for September.

On Monday I called the manager and told her that somebody lives in the 
apartment. She first tried to convince me that nobody lives there, but 
when I told her that I actually spoke to the tenant, she reversed and 
said that she just allowed the lady to move in some of her belongings 
and that she does not occupy the apartment.

I went back the same afternoon, and spoke again to the tenant. She was 
apparently already instructed by the manager, was very defensive and 
kept repeating that she has not signed the lease yet. (I wonder how 
somebody can move into an apartment without signing anything.)

On Wednesday I called the manager and asked her for her name, as I want 
to complain. She replied that I had been harassing(!) her tenant and 
that she wants me off the property, but gave me her name.

I called the head office of the property management company and spoke to 
the supervisor of the manager. I told him that I paid the entire 
September rent and that somebody has already moved in, and asked for 
refund. Without hesitation, he said they will pay me back and that heUd 
contact me in a week.

Twelve days went by, he never called, and hasnUt returned my messages. 
Finally, I reached him. He told me that he spike to the manager, and 
repeated the whole story about the tenant actually not signing the lease  
until October. He also said that I can take whatever action I want if I 
want to complain.

I have a written statement of two other tenants who saw the new tenant 
moved in and testify that the tenant lived in the apartment at least 6 
days in September. Although that amounts to only about $154 of rent, I 
feel quite upset about being jerked around this way.

I would appreciate any advice on a possible legal or other recourse.
Apart from getting my money back, I wonder if Better Business Bureau
or any other watchdog organization may be interested in my experience.

Many thanks for help!

-- Milan Richter, Seattle, WA.
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: monaghan@cac.washington.edu (Tracy Monaghan )
Subject: Re: Need cat vet in Wallingford
Organization: UW Computing
Distribution: seattle
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 23:15:37 GMT

FYI: There's Cat Clinic on StoneWay (about 38th I think).

Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: dxxb@hardy.u.washington.edu (David Barts)
Subject: Re: so, pro-windmill cadres...
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:40:39 GMT

witters@tc.fluke.COM (John Witters) writes:

>In article <1992Oct06.171942.805@ssc.com> markz@ssc.com (Mark Zenier) writes:
>>I've heard of selective perception cause by excessive adherence
>>to ideology.  But a case of actual blindness caused by being
>>a right wing contrarian?
>I think you've hit the nail on the head here.  Either that, or Mark Crispin
>isn't really a right wing contrarian, but a psych major performing a
>frighteningly clever experiment on all of us.  After all, his account seems to
>be somewhere at the University of Washington.  Anyone else feel like a white
>lab mouse?

Judging by his posting address, Mark works for the Computers &
Communications department (CAC) as a programmer.  His name is all
over most of the E-mail code (pine, IMAP, etc.) code written at
UW.  However, that's not to say he can't be working his way through
school as a psych major.

Either that or he's a closet liberal posting parodies of conservative
opinions and laughing his head off that noboby has figured him out
yet.

-- 
David Barts  N5JRN                      UW Civil Engineering, FX-10
davidb@ce.washington.edu                Seattle, WA  98195
Newsgroups: seattle.general,misc.legal,misc.consumers
From: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Paying for unlisted phone number.
Date: 10 Oct 92 00:29:03 GMT
Reply-To: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Zortech, Seattle

In article <1992Oct5.230254.4013@GTEtele.com> ken@GTEtele.com (Ken Swapp) writes:
/I just investigated changing my home phone number to an
/unlisted number, and was told by GTE NW that it will cost 
/me $2.20 each MONTH!!!    
/This is absurd!

Oh, the joys of legally enforced monopolies. The best thing would be to lobby
to remove their legal monopoly status.