From: M22079@mwvm.mitre.org
Subject: Re: Term Limits for the Landed Baroncy
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 14:04:41 GMT

Lucky for me Hossein civility speaks for itself and I can address the actual
points, such as they are.
 
I have been in various circles of the SCA for multiple years, and have had
arguments with various Oldcastle's including the ones cited and stand by
my opinion about monarchists.
 
Let us strip the wording from Baron and democratically elected and instead
choose to discuss local leaders and chosen by the populace.  In many cases
there were local rulers who gave only lip service to the King and only when
he was around.  The choosing of a local ruler can be by force of arms but
that involves massed field battles not crown tourneys.  So I would argue that
an election is not period but is closer than single combat to choose leaders.
 
Finally, let us address custom or benes.  As the learned Hossein will recall
it is the custom that tends to stay the hand of the moment.  The King was
bound not by the laws of his choosing but rather by an unpublished standard
of the area.  What was reasonable in one area was not reasonable in another.
It is period to have the choice of the local ruler be given to the King as
a fait d'accompli.  If you think that most the Kings were free to choose
anyone, I would suggest that you cite examples.
 
For a king to interfere in local succession required a great deal of strength
and though because it tended to unsettle the other local rulers.
 
As for my comments about "dweebs".  I will say that the SCA has its fair share
and that the peerage is not noticeably more reasonable.  The real question is
the manner in which the rod of rule is passed.  Do we have any reason to
believe that the current SCA tactic is better than strict chance.  My argument
is that it selects for those who wish to rule and are committed to the
fighting element of the SCA.  There are no selection criteria for interest
in any other element.  The chivalry is at fault only indirectly because they
seem to be the only group that can impress ideas upon the Kings.  I would
also like to point out that the King knows very little of the local custom and
 should seek guidance in tradition rather than employing his own, perhaps
limited rationality of the situation.
 
In short, I think the local customs should be allowed to flourish and that
Kings should respect them, if not understand them.  I think the Peers should
be recognized as experts in their fields and committed to the SCA, but should
also be taken with grain of salt.
 
Perhaps I should note that the Baron who was deposed and put up such an awful
stink is one of the SCA's foremost authorities on law and custom in the Middle
Ages.  I would like to see this issue discussed academically and at length.
Perhaps a Parliment should be called and the matters of the BoD, the Crown
Tourney, and the impact of local custom/succession should be addressed.  It
 could be a constitutional convention (I love getting a monarchists goat).  I
 should note that democracy as a concept is period (Aristotle) but absolute
monarchy is in vogue in the SCA.  The reality of the Middle Ages is more of
an Oligarchy, with occasional flashes of Tyranny.  I am using the Aristotelian
definitions not the SCA definitions.
 
I wish to say to close that most of the figures in this discussion have meant
well and are generally reasonable people.  It is to the credit of many that
the matter has been settled.  It is the larger question of local custom or
autonomy that is my pet peeve although dweebs who gain power is a close second.
 
                                       If this argument forces one person to
                                       actually look into the real power
                                       structures of the Middle Ages,
                                       it is worth my time,
 
                                       Ian of Gloucester
                                       Storvik, Atlantia
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca