From: jones@nick.csh.rit.edu (jones)
Subject: Re: Birdie Bouncing!
Organization: Computer Science House @ RIT
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 19:48:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.204625.28585@u.washington.edu> distef@carson.u.washington.edu (Sandra Distefano) writes:
>cdt@zoo.bt.co.uk (Clive Dennet-Thorpe) writes:
>
>
>>Hi!!
>
>>I  have 4 budgies, 2 of each and they all live in a large flight.
>>I have become concerned lately because the 2 males have formed
>>a couple. Steven and Leo spend a great deal of time feeding each other
>>and flirting!
>
>>What really concerns me though is that the two females seem to be
>>changing sex. Their ceres have turned from brown to pale blue.
>
>>Is colour change normal in females????????
>
>>What does it mean??????????????
>
>>Is it related to Steve & Leo getting it on????
>
>>Neither female seems interested in any of the other three.
>
>Cere color is not conclusive for sexing a budgie.  There are 
>some color mutations which make cere color sexing useless, and
>in the other color mutations, it still is only about 85%
>correct according to my old avian vet.  In addition to cere
>color he uses both behavior and biting strength to decide with
>95% certainty what sex a budgie is.  
>
>Biting strength:  Females bite a lot harder and they don't give
>up.  Males bite, but they give up once they figure out that
>you won't let go just because he's biting.  (I'm talking about
>biting when you have to grab them to trim nails or clip wings.)
>This was DEFINATELY true with my pair.
>
>Behavior:  When females reach sexual maturity they become dominant
>over the males (hen pecked is a very good term in budgies).  Males
>tend to do more bobbing (sexual behavior) although females do 
>this occasionally.  Males kept alone will often get very horny
>and will try to copulate with various objects.  I don't know if
>males kept with other budgies do that or not.
>
>In any case, what I'm trying to say is that you may not have 
>two males and two females.  If you have their sexes correct,
>you just may be seeing weird dominance behaviors (that's just
>a guess on my part).  
>
>Sandra
>distef@u.washington.edu

To: distef@carson.u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Birdie Bouncing!
Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds
Organization: Computer Science House @ RIT
Cc: 
Bcc: 

In article <1992Nov20.204625.28585@u.washington.edu> you write:

>>(Clive)
>>I  have 4 budgies, 2 of each and they all live in a large flight.
>>I have become concerned lately because the 2 males have formed
>>a couple. Steven and Leo spend a great deal of time feeding each other
>>and flirting!
>
>>What really concerns me though is that the two females seem to be
>>changing sex. Their ceres have turned from brown to pale blue.
>
>(Sandra)
>Cere color is not conclusive for sexing a budgie.  There are 
>some color mutations which make cere color sexing useless, and
>in the other color mutations, it still is only about 85%
>correct according to my old avian vet.  In addition to cere
>color he uses both behavior and biting strength to decide with
>95% certainty what sex a budgie is.  
>
>Biting strength:  Females bite a lot harder and they don't give
>up.  Males bite, but they give up once they figure out that
>you won't let go just because he's biting.  (I'm talking about
>biting when you have to grab them to trim nails or clip wings.)
>This was DEFINATELY true with my pair.
>

It is not true in all cases though. I have 2 definate males, 1 female, and
one "your guess is as good as mine". (Breeder: female. Vet: maybe male. Me:
maybe female.) 

[(?Her? cere was white until a month ago, when it slowly started turning
brown. Perhaps someone who knows colour genetics can help:  the father of
this bird was a spangle, and this bird is not (recessive).  The mother was a
non-spangle. Can my bird be sexed from this?]

My definate female was not agressive in any way, and never bit anyone --
including her mate. Her mate has bit me and hung on like a little demented
stapling gun. My other male is more toward the norm: he is submissive.  My
?female? is an odd creature. ?She? fluctuates from day to day. (Not too
suprising, really.) 

>Behavior:  When females reach sexual maturity they become dominant
>over the males (hen pecked is a very good term in budgies).  Males
>tend to do more bobbing (sexual behavior) although females do 
>this occasionally.  Males kept alone will often get very horny
>and will try to copulate with various objects.  I don't know if
>males kept with other budgies do that or not.
>

Now that the ????'s cere is turning colours, i am hoping to see some
definate changes in her behaviour. Perhaps she will start pushing the boys
around. 

My male (when lone) did not act horny: he was *extremely* agressive...  My
males have never "copulated" with eachother; they do feed eachother -- much
more than they feed the ?????. 

>In any case, what I'm trying to say is that you may not have >two males and
>two females.  If you have their sexes correct, >you just may be seeing weird
>dominance behaviors (that's just >a guess on my part).  >

Exactly! We thought that our female was a male and the male female because
of behaviour sexing!!! It seems like there is a lot of room for variation
on the theme!!!...:)