From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,soc.singles
Subject: Re: BARBIE DOES IT AGAIN!!!!
Date: 7 Oct 92 18:30:26 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology

In article <1992Oct7.130304.19446@cbfsb.cb.att.com> jjd1@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (james.j.dutton) writes:
>In article <1at09jINN8m9@network.ucsd.edu> dlin@weber.ucsd.edu (Diane Lin) writes:
>>Recently, at a playground, my son was pushed by a kid twice his
>>age and size.  He wasn't hurt, but he was scared out of his wits.  When 
>>I finally found the older boy's father (reading a newspaper about 20
>>yards away from the playhouse), he responded to my request to
>>supervise his kid more carefully with "Hey, boys push.  Your son
>>should just push back."  I told him in no uncertain terms that
>>*even* if I bought into such stupidity, it wouldn't be a fair fight,
>>since his son was so much bigger.  (By the time I was done arguing
>>with this guy, I was ready to punch his lights out, but I didn't,
>>realizing that this was not the behavior I wanted to model for
>>Dylan.)
>>
>>It doesn't help parents like me who are trying to raise our sons to
>>be prosocial rather than aggressive, to run up against people like
>>that father at the playground.  But, to anticipate any other such
>>macho types out there, such a childrearing goal does not mean that
>>my son will not be able to assert himself.  Just as I would
>>want a daughter to be self-assertive but not violent, I expect the
>>same level of civilized behavior from my son.
>>-- 
>>Diane C. Lin			"Live now; make *now* always the
>>(Dylan's mom, 22 months)	 never come again." (ST:TNG)
> 
> Diane, idealism is all fine and good BUT it fades fast when
>the other elementary school kids find out your kid won't fight back.
>He's going to encounter confrontations ten fold.
> At some point a man has to do what a man has to do.

  So you're saying if the big kid pulled a knife, Dylan was
  supposed to pull a gun, right?  I mean, after all, a man's
  got to do....

> Eventually your son will being fighting for his slice of the pie
>in life and you are not going to be there.
>
  Grrr... Just because everyone's doing it doesn't make it right.
  Diane doesn't expect her son to push back, but to stand up for
  himself if pushed.  There's a difference between being violent
  and self-assertive.  Assertive behavior does not allow oneself
  to be picked on, but also doesn't go and pick on someone else.

  Street-smarts also says that you fight someone who is bigger than
  you, you're a stupid jackass.  In this case, it would be better
  for Dylan to just tell the brute he's a jerk and no one likes
  to play with jerks.  Politics works well in the schoolyard to
  ostracize bullies.

  If I'm reading this correctly, she is also taking on the
  sexual stereotype that allows (and by your attitude, encourages)
  boys to be violent and aggressive whereas expecting girls to
  cower and run for protection.  With kids shooting each other
  in high school, I commend Diane's idealism.  If more parents
  taught their kids (boys) that violence is not the answer
  there would be less kids killed in school.  Finally, Diane's
  kid will be less likely to be involved with the brutes that
  do the shooting and stabbing than someone raised to seek
  physical confrontation.