HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rpitts@darth.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: CRI
Date: 26 Jan 93 08:49:14 GMT
Organization: Georgia Tech CERL/EE, Atlanta, Ga

In article <Jan.24.23.46.40.1993.2988@athos.rutgers.edu> markc@eomer.hw.stratus.com (Mark Christensen) writes:
>As far as I know, they are not connected to a church.  They are an
>organization separate from any church affiliation.  However, it is my
>understanding (and I could be wrong), that the employees are comprised,
>for the most part, of people who are from charismatic churches.  As an
>organization, they take a stance for the supernatural spiritual gifts which
>John MacArthur has taken a stand against.  Yet they support other
>doctinal areas espoused by John.  Their main thrust as an organization is
>to expose the falsehoods of cultic movements (Mormonism, Jehovah Witnesses,
>etc).

CRI will address practically any area having to do with Christianity.

They says they answer questions on "the cults, the occult, aberrant
christian teachings, apologetics, the bible" or something like that.

One of their catch phrases is "Would you do more for the Truth,
than a cult would do for a lie?"

However, if you didn't see my post (about two or three responses back)
CRI is very hard on the Faith Movement (Health and Wealth/Prosperity
Gospel, etc.) which is very evident on TV programs and especially
on the Trinity Broadcasting Network.  They have had a whole weeks worth
of programs on the Faith teachings.  Some of their most critical mail
is from the supporters of the Faith teachers (Copeland, Hinn, Hagan, etc.)

For Christ and His Kingdom,
Richard Pitts
-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu  |    Love and Worship God the Father and His Son, 
                      --|--            the Creator of the Earth. 
Pro-Life!          -|-  |  -|-  Come bow down in worship, let us kneel
Pro-Responsibility! |   |   |   before the Lord Our Maker.  Psalm 95:6
From: kim@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Mingoo Kim)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Harold Camping's "1994?" and your opion...please
Date: 26 Jan 93 08:13:41 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

Hi. I've been a long listener of Harold Camping's "Open Forum" heard all across
the US on Family Radio. And I have come to believe his study and his 
translation of the Bible is correct. 

What is your opion on him. Has anyone read his book "1994?" It's scary yet
exciting to think the time is so near (if his studies are correct).

In Christ,

Mingoo
kim@andromeda.rutgers.edu

E-mail prefered.
From: kilroy@gboro.rowan.edu (Dr Nancy's Sweetie)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Meat and the Bible
Date: 26 Jan 93 09:49:40 GMT
Organization: Rowan College of New Jersey

John Long asks:

> Can a Christian eat meat?

Which brings to mind another question: for those Christians who _don't_
eat meat, what about other non-essential uses of animal products?

People wear fur coats, leather jackets/belts/shoes/purses/whatever, and
other items made from dead animals -- is there something special about
eating which makes it unacceptable while the other uses are okay?

Also, if we have any anti-fur-coat people watching, do they object to other
uses such as photogrpahy?  (One of the ingredients in film is dead animals.)
If you do not object to the use of film, but do object to fur coats, what is
the basis for the difference?


Darren F Provine / kilroy@gboro.rowan.edu
From: jmoon@cco.caltech.edu (Jong H. Moon)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: In search of Religion
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:33:36 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

readyja@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Jeffrey A Ready) writes:

>I am a man in search of a religion that suits me best.  I believe in God,  
>and I also believe that Jesus is the son of God.  I don't take the Bible  
>literally.  I don't believe that non-christians always go to hell.  I  
>believe in evolution.  I believe in the Big-Bang.  I believe in other  
>intelligent life in the universe.  
> 
>I don't know what other information might be needed, but is there a  
>religion out there for me?
> 
>Thanks

This is neat...you are in search of a "religion", and you spout off your
"beliefs" like you're applying for a government job or something.  Typical
of most of the stuff that gets posted on this newsgroup.  When is someone
going to post that he/she is looking for _spirituality_ ?  When will people
stop defining themselves with their belief/unbelief in stupid dogmatic points
like those posted above?  Goddamn...what's more important: what the person
_does_ because he believes in Jesus etc (which he doesn't mention at all); or
what the person pretends to philosophize about (which is all he posts about).
I hope to God this person doesn't find his way into a church...
From: whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Bryan Whitsell)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Simple Question
Date: 25 Jan 93 05:15:14 GMT
Reply-To: whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman

In article <Jan.22.03.55.40.1993.6114@athos.rutgers.edu> cmtan@iss.nus.sg  
(Tan Chade Meng - with Dan) writes:
> If God is All Powerful and All Loving, why does He allow sufferings
> to exist?  Why did He create humankind with the propensity for
> Greed, Hatred and Delusions and then allow us to murder and harm
> each other?

Suffering is the result of sin in the world.  He loves us enough to allow  
us to chose to follow him.

In Christ's Love,
Bryan
From: revdak@netcom.com (D. Andrew Kille)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: What are the Triads?  Who are the Irvingites?
Date: 25 Jan 93 05:40:05 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

jfb@macsch.com (John Baskette) writes:
: 
: 1.  "The Triads" which concerns a debate, "Gregory Palamas against Barlaam",
:     and concerns some signs and wonders performing monks called the 
:     Heseychistis?  He was speaking so I am not sure about the correct
:     spellings.
: 
The Hesychiasts were a group of contemplative monks who followed a form
of breathing meditation developed at Mt. Athos in the thirteenth and 
fourteenth centuries.  Gregory Palamas (1296-1359) gave the theological
justification for it, and it was accepted by the Orthodox church in 1351.
The goal was to allow a vision of the light of God's primordial energy,
which was associated with Jesus' transfiguration.

: 2.  Edward Irving and the Irvingites.
: 
Edward Irving (1792-1834) was a Church of Scotland minister who was
in/famous for his eschatological preaching.  He was charged with heresy
on the grounds of "holding the sinfulness of Christ's humanity", and
excommunicated in 1833.  He then served in the new Holy Catholic Apostolic
Church, founded by his former church members, which stressed spiritual
gifts and the second coming.
: 
D. Andrew Kille
GRADUATE THEOLOGICAL UNION
From: jonh@david.wheaton.edu (Jonathan Hayward)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Noriega (was Re: Dodd and Gandi)
Date: 25 Jan 93 05:35:46 GMT
Organization: Wheaton College, IL

In article <Jan.20.00.09.40.1993.818@geneva.rutgers.edu> gilham@csl.sri.com (Fred Gilham) writes:
>In this month's Christianity Today there was a brief article on Manuel
>Noriega's conversion.  It seems that it is sincere.  I remember when I
>first heard about this, a year or two ago, I was hoping that it would
>be.
>
>I think in instances like this, we can only stand amazed at the way
>God can reach people we would never expect, detestable people, and
>how, as the bible says, there is more joy in heaven over one sinner
>who repents than over ninety and nine who need no repentance.

"Christ died to save sinners, of whom I am the worst."

I stand amazed at that conversion, as I stand amazed at any conversion.

But it is not a matter of that being fundamentally different from the
conversion of a "good" person.

When Jesus came, he shocked a lot of people by the poor company that he kept,
and said things such as "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the
sick."  Annoyed at self-righteous hypocrisy, he told some Pharisees "The tax
collectors and prostitutes are entering the kingdom of Heaven ahead of you."

If you read on to what Paul wrote in Romans, you will see a reflection of the
evil that lies within the most "good" (by human measure) person.

To end it, there is the parable Jesus told of the man forgiven ten thousand
talents (equivalent to millions of dollars) and who would not forgive a debt of
a few denarii (equivalent to a few dollars).

This is spectacular and awesome, but let us not be self-righteous towards those
who look more evil.

(I'm not saying that the original poster was falling into that sin, but rather
that it is a danger to be aware of)

################################################################################
# "God, give me mountains # "But the greatest   # Jonathan Hayward             #
# to climb and the        # of these is love."  # Jonathan_Hayward@wheaton.edu #
# strength for climbing." # I Corinthians 13:13 # jhayward@imsa.edu            #
################################################################################
From: amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: ACLU Now Targetting Home Schools
Date: 28 Jan 93 08:33:23 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at Austin

ptfarre@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Peter Farrell) writes:
>If the EEI's listed above are true, then I offer yet another piece of
>evidence to the skeptics out there who believe we Christians and home
>school advocates are paranoid. We are not. This is (again, if true)
>an instance of state power being exerted against a Christian family and
>a Christian student because of their refusal to have their children
>indoctrinated with unacceptable dogma of the new liberal left in this
>nation.  If the above EEI's are not correct, will someone WHO IS INFORMED
>please rectify the mistakes?  Thanks.

I do not believe that this attempt to destroy home schooling (by
regulating it out of existence, something the government is *so* good
at) has anything to do with the religion of the family.  More
specifically, I don't think they are targeted because they are
Christian.  Every time I open the paper and read about six-year-olds
being molested in the school restrooms, about junior high students
being shot by their own peers, about high school students who can't
read past a grade-school level, I consider designing a home school
program for my daughter (who, at seven months, is a few years away
from this issue).  Personally, I feel that educationally my husband
and I could do a better job than the public school system.
Socialization is the factor that keeps holding me back.

But I digress.  I am a pagan; we live in a pagan household.  One of
the things about home schooling that appeals to me is being able to
teach my values and my spirituality to my child without her having to
be inundated by the overtly Christian public school system (irony --
you think there's not enough; I think there's too much).  But if I
were to advance that as an argument, these people would go after me
with the same zeal (if indeed not more).

It's parental choice to let their children learn and grow up the way
*they* consider important that's on the line; not specific religions.
These people just use religion as a smokescreen, thus making
Christians feel they're targeted, Jews feel that *they're* targeted,
and so on.  Divide and conquer, I think it's called.

Home schooling is a big issue here in Texas right now as well.  I hope
and pray that they won't destroy it, because I think it's valuable --
and what's more, I think that the way the schools are going it may
well be our last hope to educate our children and keep them alive.

-- 
-----Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik-------------------------------*<:-)-------------
"Queens never make bargains."  -- The Red Queen, _Through the Looking Glass_
-----amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu--------------The University of Texas @Austin---
From: chuck@cygnus.eid.anl.gov (Charles Cilek)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: I feel threatened by Christianity...
Date: 25 Jan 93 06:48:59 GMT

Dear Mr. Emory,
It may come as a shock to you that 1) I do not necessarily disagree
with everything that Pat Robertson does, nor 2) do I necessarily agree
with everything the initial poster stated.  Someone had asked for a translation
of the .sig, and since I had recently re-read The Handmaid's Tale, I felt
that the context of the .sig shed some important light on the mindset
of the person who felt threatened by Christianity.  However, since
your reply was addressed to me, I feel it necessary that I respond by email
since this sub-discussion is not germane to the list.  

Since you have totally mis-read my background, let me say a little about
myself before I start.  I went to a Catholic grade school and high school
and have recently returned to the Church after a lapse of a few years.  I
consider myself to be a Christian just as much as you do.  However, I do
not feel that this gives me any authority to write all of my moral beliefs
into law. 

Right-wing fundamentalism scares me because I do not beleve that
religion and politics should mix to that extent.  Mr. Robertson and
his followers seem (to me at least) to be attempting an establishment
of  a Christian religion for this government, and I believe that
that is a bad idea. Aside from the fact that there is a sizable
non-Christian population, what type of Chriastianity would be
established? Catholic, Protestant, Morman, JW ?  We have gone over
200 years without the sectarian violence which has plagued Ireland and
I would like to keep it that way.

If parents want to raise their children in a religious manner, that is
what bible-study and C.C.D are for, not the public schools.  

Personally, I believe that the social revolution of the sixties has
gone too far in some areas, but the right-wing response would swing
the pendulum too far in the other direction.

With regards to religious rights being threatened, perhaps you could
send some examples, as I haven't seen any.  If you are referring to
the original poster's implicit desire to keep the Jehova Witnesses
from "harassing" him, I believe that the poster was over-reacting and
just politely decline and close the door on them, as this has always
worked for me.  

I would like to hear your response (by e-mail, please)

Sincerely,
Charles M. Cilek
From: sdittman@liberty.uc.wlu.edu (Scott Dittman)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Looking for Book Title & ISBN
Date: 26 Jan 93 08:13:32 GMT
Organization: Washington & Lee University

michael p.herlihy (mikeh@cbnewsg.cb.att.com) wrote:
: I wonder if someone on the net can help me. I'm trying
: to find a book.  It was written by a French Protestant
: monk.  The book was a discourse on the Rosary titled
: something like:

: 	"Five for Sorrow, Ten for Joy"

: If you know the real title, author and ISBN it would be great.

: If you know if it is still in print, it would be fantastic

: MIke
: -- 
: Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly.
: Orthodoxy (1908), Chapter 7, G. K. Chesterton 1874-1936  

Michael --

In checking the Library of Congress, I find 2 entries.

Five for sorrow, ten for joy, Rumer Godden  
Viking (NY) c1979
ISBN 0-670-31701-2  (fiction, I think)

Five for sorrow, ten for joy: aconsideration of the Rosary, Joseph Neville
Ward
Cambridge (MA), Cowley, c1985 (4th? edition)
ISBN 0-936384-36-0  paperback  $6.95

Sorry, no French protestant monks.
-- 
Scott Dittman                    email: sdittman@wlu.edu
University Registrar             talk: (703)463-8455   fax: (703)463-8024
Washington and Lee University    snail mail:  Lexington Virginia 24450
From: yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: God's contract with man through Jesus Christ
Date: 26 Jan 93 08:21:50 GMT
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #3, Edmonton, AB, Canada

Here is the simplest way to receive salvation!!

Go to God and ask for mercy for all the sins that you have committed througho
your life.    Then ask God to take you in, via Christ, i.e. admit that Christ
is YOUR Saviour!

From then on, all the sins that you commit should be forgiven PROVIDED you ta
it to prayer.

And that simply is God contract and formula for salvation.

Dave Shariff Yadallee (B. Sc. (Econ/Math) (U of Alberta 1990) )
 (yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca, userLIBE@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca)
God Save the Queen, God Bless us All! Remember! Jesus Saves!!
Birthdate: 29 Jan 1969, Redhill, Surrey, England, UK
From: wagner@grace.math.uh.edu (David Wagner)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Choosing Governmental Leaders
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:21:49 GMT
Organization: UH Dept of Math

In Romans 13 we read that there is no authority except that which 
God has established.  We may recall specific examples given elsewhere
in Scripture.  For example, Jesus told Pilate, "You would have no
power over me it it were not given to you from above."  (John 19:11)
Certainly Pilate used that power to do evil--executing Christ--but at
the same time this was in accordance with God's will.  If Christ had
not been sacrificed for our sins, God's plan of salvation would have
come to nothing.

Yet Pilate was (and is) responsible for his own sin, as were Judas
and the High Priest.  God gave Pilate the authority--but Pilate
was responsible for the way in which the authority was used.  I think
we can make similar applications to Hitler and other dictators.

Christ's submission to Pilate and the other authorities is an example
that we can follow in our submission to our own governing authorities.
In particular we can note that while Christ submitted fully, "as a
sheep before her shearers is silent", yet he did not compromise the
truth--and neither should we.

There is a message of comfort in Romans 13, which we can find in more
detail in the Old Testament prophecies.  In the OT, we read that 
God raised up various tyrants (Nebudchadnezzar, etc.) to punish
Israel.  Though these tyrants did evil with the power and authority
that God gave them, he used their evil works for his purpose, *and*
he limited the evil that they did.  In other words, though men
continually do evil, God is in control and works for the good of his
people (the Christian church)--and especially for his plan of salvation.

I hope this helps.

David H. Wagner
a confessional Lutheran
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: *   help    *
Date: 28 Jan 93 08:37:59 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley

In article <Jan.26.04.49.50.1993.15187@athos.rutgers.edu> cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes:
>I am trying to discuss with someone the idea of the historicity of the gospels
>and the trustableness(?) of Christianity in general.  ....

You might try _Who Moved The Stone_ by Frank Morris (maybe Morriss).
Written in the 1930s, recently reprinted in hardback (check Books in
Print).  The author started out as a vehement unbeliever who decided
to do some research on what, exactly, was the legal case the Sanhedrim
made out against Jesus ... and his research branched out (as research
will) and surprised him very much, and he wound up a believer.

Dorothy J. Heydt
UC Berkeley
cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu

Disclaimer:  UCB and the Cozzarelli lab are not responsible for my
opinions, and in fact I don't think they know I have any.
From: west@esd.dl.nec.com	 (Mike West)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Assurance of salvation
Date: 25 Jan 93 05:14:26 GMT

Christopher D. Trevino (trevino@hv-3.pa.dec.com) wrote:
: #########
: This why we cannot lose our salvation, regardless of whether we turn away or not.
: #########

: Praise be to the Lord. Of course, if what you say is true, we don't
: have to believe in a God and we don't care about the lives we lead.
: The once saved, always saved attitude is one that keeps the churches
: empty. Why go to church, read the bible, or pray if we are going to be
: saved regardless of what we do with our lives.

This is missing the rest of the story.  Eternal salvation is only one
point in a broader picture, and the entire picture must be kept in mind
when you examine a given point.  Coupled with eternal salvation is the
concept that if you are a believer, that will show through your life.
In other words, if you do not believe in a God or if you don't care about
the life you lead, you are not a believer regardless of what you claim.  If
you claim to believe something, but there is no evidence in your life,
you are either lying or deceiving yourself because you do not truly believe.
That is why you still go to church, read the Bible, and pray even though
you have eternal salvation.

Mike West
west@esd.dl.nec.com
From: hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: IMPORTANT prophecy about praying for CLINTON
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:34:09 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <Jan.26.04.45.08.1993.15077@athos.rutgers.edu> ogden_jon@macmail1.rtsg.mot.com (Jon Ogden) writes:
>Reportedly the President is not a
>Christian in the New Testament sense, but he is someone who is spiritually
>open.  

I think I have heard that both he and Gore call themselves born again 
Christians.  I am not sure about that, but I know that Clinton is from a 
Baptist background.  We do not know Clinton's heart.  Paul Cain said that
the Clinton God showed him was not the Clinton we see is the press.  It
is probably presumptious for us to say that he is not a Christian.  Paul Cain
said that the Lord showed him that Clinton had a soft heart.  (that was not
in the newsletter.)

>We definitley should keep him in our prayers..Yet at the same time, we must
>continue to press for change and the re-institution of morality back into our
>society.
 
Perhaps the best position to get enough leverage to apply this kind of pressure
is on our knees.

Link Hudson.