HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: philo@orion.IntelliCorp.COM (Philip R. Obermarck)
Subject: Re: Horse armoring
Date: 9 Oct 92 18:11:51 GMT
Reply-To: POBERMARCK@intellicorp.com
Organization: IntelliCorp Inc.

nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:

|> 00rkspicher@bsu-ucs.uucp (Randall Spicher) writes:
|>>Many/most horses,when seriously involved in running,often get the hind and 
|>>front feet *very* close, often even hitting them togather, (if you've ever
|>>watched a lot of horse events in which speed or action was the objective,
|>>you might have noticed a large number of horses with things wrapped 
|>>around their fetlocks (ankles to us humans).  These things are to 
|>>protect the horse from injuring itself.)  Just imagine what a spike
|>>would do to a horses leg.....
|> 
|> Ok, could it work if you had padding under the anklets, and had the 
|> spikes pointing _away_ from the horse's other legs? (In other words,
|> the spikes would point to the sides, and possibly straight forwards
|> on the front and backwards on the back.) Also, it crosses my mind
|> that the spikes should be fairly short so that they don't get caught
|> in whatever they're stabbing. Maybe just sandpaper? :-)
|> 
|>                                   Nancy Lebovitz
|>                                   nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu


 I'm afraid that I came into this thread late, so please forgive me if this
was explained previously. 

 I don't see the benifit of having anklets with spikes on a horse, even
if the spikes are pointed away from the other legs.  When a horse strikes,
it uses its hooves.  I have _never_ seen a horse intentionally strike with
an ankle.  If the spikes are just for show, then they don't need to be more
than dull studs.  If they are for offense, then the placement is all wrong.

 If a horse were to strike and drag its leg accross the opponent, (the only
reason I can see for spiked anklets) then the spikes would have a tendency
to hang up in the opponent and throw the horse off balance.

 I might concede using spiked shoes (with "toe-caps"), but this discussion
about anklets has me thoroughly confused.

        -Phil Obermarck (with a few IMHO's tossed in)
         PObermarck@IntelliCorp.COM
From: Mark_Hood@mindlink.bc.ca (Mark Hood)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Looking for Couriers
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:39:37 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

Greetings all.

Having already checked the latest Courier's List, I am searching for anyone
in the following areas:

The Baronies of Borealis and Montengarde
The Shires of Appledore, Bitter End, Ramsgaard, Windwyrm, and Hartwood.

Is there anyone here on the Rialto from these areas? And if so, could they
drop me a quick note?

In Service,

Wllm.


William MacAndrew
Barony of Lions Gate,
An Tir

mark_hood@mindlink.bc.ca
From: jim@woodowl.UUCP (jim klessig)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Alchemy
Keywords: al-Chemy
Date: 12 Oct 92 23:09:07 GMT
Organization: Woodowl, Livermore CA

samlb@optilink.UUCP (Sam Bassett) writes:

> In article <9210072250.AA07780@inmet.camb.inmet.com> justin@inmet.camb.inmet.
> >Question: how far back did alchemy in the Christian world go? Most of
> >the "major" alchemists I've heard about have been pretty late; the
> >ones I can think of offhand seem to all be Renaissance. Not that
> >Renaissance is OOP, but I *am* curious...
> 
> 	Jung (in his alchemical works, especially "Mysterium
> Conjunctionis", traces it back to Graeco-Roman Antiquity -- his earliest
> text was from about 500 A.D., showing earlier roots.
> 
> 	Again according to Jung, it ends shortly after our period -- with
> the rise of modern science in the middle 1600s.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Sam'l Bassett -- System Administrator 	      (among other silly things)
> Work: DSC/Optilink, 1310-C Redwood Wy, Petaluma CA 94954; 1-707-792-7253
> Internet: samlb@optilink.com 		      UUCP: uunet!optilink!samlb

?????
Doesn't the term it self derive fro arabic? al_Khemi or some such? Just 
like algebra?


--
jim@woodowl.UUCP  (jim klessig)
Woodowl BBS, Livermore, CA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Why have the SCA, Inc.?
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:27:54 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.182357.15628@pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
>A case can be made for directly taking all extra-fuedal issues
>directly to the external entity, or even creating a parallel,
>non-Medieval structure to deal with such things.  We have, at least
>partially, done so by giving Senschals, Autocrats, Exchequers, and
>Constables one foot in the 20th century.  Most of the difficulties we
>encounter seem to arise from this dualism of job.

I should add that, while at present the Board of the SCA acts as a
purely 'secular' (i.e. Non-Medieval) body, this has not always been
the case.  It is the errors on the part of the Board in the past that
points to the to keep these two spheres of activity clearly delineated
and separated.  (Perhaps a few anecdotes from the times of the
'Imperial Electors' are called for...)

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Reeves (Was Re:One Oh)
Date: 9 Oct 1992 21:20:20 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, Dorothea asked:

>Waitaminnit.  Reeve?  What's a Reeve?  How do you say "Reeve" in
>Western?

Reeve = Chancellor of the Exchequery = Exchequer = Treasurer = whatever
you call the person that handles the cash and cooks, er, balances the
account ledgers.

Mikjal Annarbjorn
-- 
Michael A. Chance          St. Louis, Missouri, USA    "At play in the fields
Work: mc3078@sw1sta.sbc.com                             of St. Vidicon"
Play: bq434@cleveland.freenet.edu
      mchance@nyx.cs.du.edu
From: branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Twcs's helm
Date: 7 Oct 92 18:03:45 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

Twcs (Catie Helm) writes:

>I wish I could post with good heart tonight, but I cannot.  I discovered
>that the camper back on my truck was broken into on Saturday morning,
>and one of the things that was stolen was that new helmet I was so proud
>of.  That makes this the third helmet to be stolen from me in my SCA
>career.

>So I am looking at a long time without being able to fight.  I do not
>have the money to replace a Steven Norham sallet, and I do not have
>the skill to make one myself.

Hey, wait a minute! We have outstanding challenges to fight! 
Well, there's only one thing we here on the Rialto can do: 
give to the Replace Catie's Helm Fund. Yes, send your checks
and money orders, made out to Catie Helm, to

The Replace Catie's Helm Fund
c/o Karen Williams
1093 Plaza Dr.
Sunnyvale, CA 94086

where I, Branwen ferch Emrys, will act as a central clearinghouse,
and will make sure Twcs gets the cash. In fact, I'll donate the first
ten dollars. Remember: give early, give often.

(Hey, why not?)

Branwen ferch Emrys
The Mists, the West
--
                                          Karen Williams
                                          branwen@cerebus.ras.amdahl.com
"Don't whine. Warrior women speak in a husky whisper."
  -- Brat Pack #3
From: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Multi-Multi-Dukes
Date: 9 Oct 1992 21:28:55 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, Arval wrote:

>Siegfriend [sic] is
>widely favored as the most likely to be the first four-time Eastern ruler.

Interesting.  I would have put my money on either Morgunn or Randel.
Hasn't been a rather long time since Siegfried was last on the throne?

Mikjal Annarbjorn
-- 
Michael A. Chance          St. Louis, Missouri, USA    "At play in the fields
Work: mc3078@sw1sta.sbc.com                             of St. Vidicon"
Play: bq434@cleveland.freenet.edu
      mchance@nyx.cs.du.edu
From: thistle@brewich.hou.tx.us (Thistle)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Pickups in SCA
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 21:51:36 CDT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

I feel the need to put my two pence in about larger vehicles.  I have 
found it almost impossible to put a bastard sword into a Yugo without 
minor body modifications.  I also had the dubious privelege of traveling 
to an event 2hrs. from home with 2 other 200+lb fighters, pavillion, 
table, chairs, coolers, etc. in a Honda Civic.  
I got rid of the Yugo and bought a pickup.  My friends and I have also 
learned the joy of convoying.  The Honda died of hernia soon after.
Sigvald Browncloak, IC of Gate's Edge, B of Stargate, K of Ansteorra.

------------------
thistle@brewich.hou.tx.us (Thistle)
Origin: The Brewer's Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350
     "Silence is the voice of complicity" - Vote Early, Vote Often!
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d,comp.os.msdos.misc
From: polowin@chem.queensu.ca (Joel Polowin)
Subject: Text file search utility (e.g. for SCA armorial)
Organization: Dept. of Chemistry, Queen's University
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:37:40 GMT

I found a minor error in the earlier version of my search utility: it
didn't correctly warn of too-long input lines being truncated.  I've
received all of the other error messages at appropriate times, so I
HOPE that there are no more problems.  The earlier version works OK
in general, and there are no too-long entries in the S.C.A. file, but
people may wish to get the clean version of 'filter', v.1.4.

For any who might have missed the earlier announcement (there were 
server problems last week) but still might be interested:
I've written a multiple-term text search utility.  It's functionally
similar to 'fgrep' but allows simultaneous checking for up to fifteen
search terms -- each independently to be present/absent, and case 
sensitive/insensitive; each can be 'or'-linked to preceding term(s).
I originally wrote it for searching the Society for Creative Anachronism's
file of heraldic devices -- such searching involves applying a lot of
separate conditions -- but have found it useful for a variety of other
tasks as well.  I'm making it freely available for public use.

'filter' is available in two forms for anonymous ftp from ftp.ccs.queensu.ca
(130.15.126.54), in pub/qu-pub/.  'filter14.c.Z' is the compressed
source code for version 1.4; ARJ-compressed 'filter14.arj' contains
the source code and the DOS executable compiled with Borland's Turbo C++.
The source is pretty plain C and should work with any ANSI-standard C
at the very least.  For those on Fidonet, 'filter14.zip' can be F'REQed
from the Typecast BBS, 1:249/107.

On my PC at home (40MHz 386dx), 'filter' chews through the 1.9MB S.C.A.
armorial file (available from meadow.stanford.edu, rainbow.cse.nau.edu, 
and bransle.ucs.mun.edu), searching for entries containing the strings
"aardvark", "winged pig", or "wombat", and which are not badges, in
about 37 seconds.  It's made armorial-searching a LOT faster and easier.
And because it reads a file line by line (or reads from standard input)
there are no size limitations other than the 300-character line length
limit (trivially changed with a #DEFINE in the source code).

Documentation is internal: any error in syntax causes 'filter' to print
a brief error message and a concise description of proper syntax plus
examples.

Joel Polowin
polowin@silicon.chem.queensu.ca, polowin@chem.queensu.ca,
 polowinj@qucdn.queensu.ca
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Why have the SCA, Inc.?
Date: 13 Oct 92 05:22:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.719029641.AA00000

DS>  From: David Schroeder <ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
DS>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
DS>
DS>  Greetings once again, good gentles --
DS>
DS>  A fellow Rialtan dropped me a note to say that she appreciated my
DS>  brief
DS>  reference to the possibility of Kingdoms splitting from the
DS>  Corporation
DS>  in the future if the burden of regulations becomes excessive.....
DS>
DS>  [reminiscences deleted....]    But the BIGGEST service the
DS>  Corporation offered was providing the Registry and managing/printing
DS>  mailing labels for 2,000 plus members using time on Cliveden's
DS>  husband Guy's company mainframe computer system.  Back in the
DS>  dim past, before powerful microcomputers were around, it was
DS>  quite a big deal to manage 2,000 plus names and addresses.......
DS>
DS>  Today that is no longer the case.  Even TI's 20,000+ record mailing
DS>  list could be kept on a less than $5,000 computer system, given a
DS>  Mac or PC with a large hard disk, a heavy duty printer, software,
DS>  and a tape-backup device.

In fact, they might even do it BETTER.

My #1 deputy is getting her TIs, but not her kingdom newsletters. This was 
the case since the second month of her membership. No one knows how this can 
happen, since the TIs arrive on schedule, and it should all be a part of the 
same membership package.

Meanwhile, as an Assoc. Member, I can't get it no matter *how* much I'm 
willing to pay..."isn't done that way"... I know, because I tried.

Very frustrating when you live right in the same town with the person who 
handles it at the kingdom end.

Moreach NicMhaolain
trifid@agora.rain.com
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: One Oh
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:56:02 GMT
Organization: Progress Software Corp.

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin wrote:
  In the West a Chatelaine meets newcomers with explanations and useful
  handouts.  What does an Eastern one do?  

V.C.14 of the Laws of the East Kingdom (1992)
   14. Chatelaine:
    a.  Is  responsible for the introduction and education of new
    members in the culture and customs of the Society.
    b. Prepares, maintains, and disseminates such materials.
    c. Is responsible to the Kingdom Seneschal.

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Why have the SCA, Inc.?
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:29:48

 AN> Back in the old, ancient days before unified armour 
 AN> standards, authorisations
 AN> were pretty routinely transferable between the 
 AN> kingdoms which had them.
  Ahem.  That's right, "kingdoms which had them".  Close ahem. Lemme 
 tell a small story here.  You see, before the BoD standardized the rules  Ansteorra didn't use authorization.  One year, back when it was the 
 Midrealm that we shared a border with, we held a war with them.  
 Actually, now that I think about it, this was the 2nd war.  The first 
 was held on Ansteorran grounds.  Well, the 2nd was held on Midrealm 
 grounds.  They decided that we had to be authorized in order to fight on  their territory.  Fortunately we only had about 35 non-belts with us 
 or the whole weekend would have been taken up with authorization.  Plus, 
 they then just made a token, rather ridiculous effort at auth.  I'd 
 be willing to bet that this was one of the snippets of info that 
 helped put SCA-wide standards on track.  We like to play together too 
 much. 
      Gwenllian CfM

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Pickup Trucks (was Re: regalia trailer)
Organization: University of Toronto -- Office of the Provost
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 03:11:12 GMT

In article <1558@niktow.canisius.edu> salley@niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley) writes:

>....  Lord Madog, who was in Atlantia while in the Army, 
>said that in Atlantia, you could skip the phrase 'and vans'.  If you don't 
>have a pickup, you ain't a _real_ fighter.  How is it in the other 10 kingdoms?

I thought that in the Fort Bragg Metropolitan Area if you don't have a pickup
you ain't a real _man_!

Personal observation:  People who transport their armour in the trunk of a
solid middle-class looking sedan rarely get stopped at the border.  Station
wagons, minivans and other visible load areas do (imho) get stopped more often.

Aryk

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Subject: Re: Stolen armor (was Re: Twcs' helm)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 01:58:29 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.205445.3770@ee.gatech.edu> ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel) writes:
>Where does it go?
>
>Recently Baroness Domenica had her coronet stolen from
>the back of her truck along with some truly beautiful and
>sentimental garb of two Peers that were traveling with her.
>
>So where does one fence or use a braided, gold-wire cronet?
>
I dunno. It probably looked valuable. The traditional fate of stolen
jewelry is to be melted down :( and the stones sold seperately or cut
into smaller gems if they are truly huge.:(  I think that a lot of
stolen stuff that turns out to be worthless probably gets thrown away :(

Sorry to be depressing,

Lothar \|/
        0
>Aoghann
>
>-- 
>     The comments and spelling herein are mine and nobody
>                     else lays claim to them.
>================================================================
>Lonnie D. Harvel                 |  ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From:  ()
Subject: card weaving
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: Michigan State University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 00:36:59 GMT

THE BOOK on card weaving is "Techniques of tablet weaving" by peter
collingwood.
It is not hard to do the simpler geometrics. The material is cheap and
easly portable. I tryed it and liked it
From: c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Parental Permissions
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:13:35 GMT
Organization: Monmouth College, W. Long Branch, N.J.  07764

In article <9210141501.AA03350@orsino> sharons@juliet.ll.mit.EDU (Sharon Stanfill) writes:
>2. In the case of the under-agers who showed up at the door, having
>	come 100 miles... I think I might have attempted to call the
>	parents - even if you couldn't get anything in writing, at
>	least you would know that the parents had some idea where
>	their kids were.

	This gives me an idea.  In some locals, at least, it is possible for
a recorded telephone consent to replace a writen one.  The equipment is
reasonably cheap, and it can solve some situations like this.  One MAJOR caveat:

CHECK YOUR LOCAL LAWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

	If you don't, and something goes wrong, you are now DOUBLY screwed,
once for not having a valid waiver, and once for illegally recording a phone
call.  
	If there are any insurance types out there, do you know anything about
this?  After my first car wreck Allstate took my statement over the phone,
in lieu of my taking a 20-minute ride out of my way to their offices in a car
that for all practical purposes no longer existed.  :)

|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
|o| Of Course I speak  |      michael carson       | Carpe Diem, Man.        |o|
|o|  only for myself.  | c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu | Carpe Vitam, too.       |o|
|o| Would YOU let me   +---------------------------+-------------------------|o|
|o|  speak for you?!?  |      All flames to: nobody@moncol.monmouth.edu      |o|
|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: STEWARTL@wood-emh1.army.MIL (LOU STEWART)
Subject: Bardic School?
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 20:54:16 GMT

Greetings, good gentles!  Would anyone have any information concerning
a Bardic School operated at Castle Blarney by the McCarthys between
1300-1600?  I read about this in an Irish guidebook, and would like to
use the setting for my persona.  Any help with this would be greatly
appreciated.  Luigsech ni hIfearnain

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: SCAidians who FRP games (part II)
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:45:40 GMT

In article <199210081246.AA22329@comm.Tandem.COM> MCKAY_MICHAEL@tandem.COM writes:
>     Not to force anybody out of the "FRP game" closet, but I first met Hal
>Ravin and Hillary of Serendip at a game con; cirica AS XII.  Hal was running
>the registration counter, and Hillary was "running" (at least being the primary
>"spokesman") the SCA demo.  Gaming convention demos are still very popular (at
>here in the West), where a recent labor day con had over 40 members signed up
>in advance.

I haven't been running DunDraCon Reg *that* long....

Actually, DDC is likely to be an exception in it's association with
the SCA.  Several of the committee are both long-time gamers and long
time or old ex- SCAers.  Besides me and Hilary there are Steve Perrin
(Comte Stephen de Lorraine), Gordon Monson (Sir William of York), and
Steve Henderson (Sir Steven MacEanruig).  Perrin and Henderson were
two of the four original authors of RuneQuest--which is a major reason
the combat system 'feels' right to most folks who are both SCA and
gamers.

I think the problem is not the crossover in indivduals, so much as
making the point that they are separate activities--even while
acknowledging that the SCA has a lot to teach gamers and (especially)
game designers about how medievaloid worlds have to work if they're to
make sense and how muscle-powered weapons work in practice.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)

-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: ... "Autocr Dancing from Pictures; Waivers
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:32:36 GMT

In article <BvtryF.K4D@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:
>In article <718495270.F00004@blkcat.UUCP> Dave.Aronson@p11.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:
>
>>So tell us, Aryk, why ARE the women dressed like mushrooms???
>
>I'm buggered if I know.  I think some Western woman once saw a picture of
>a 16th century German woman with her skirts hiked up over a belt, and so
>they all do it with their 16th century German dresses.  And it makes them
>look like mushrooms.

It was speculated locally that you had the various Germans in mind,
but they hardly comprise *all* the women in the West--they're a very
small minority.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare