From: rj24@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Robert  Johnston)
Subject: Re: Arggggh!
Followup-To: alt.flame
Keywords: true, ouch
Reply-To: rj24@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Robert  Johnston)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:35:21 GMT

In article <1ih6saINNr45@s-crim1.dl.ac.uk> mbrgw@s-crim1.dl.ac.uk (R.G. Walters) writes:
>In article <1993Jan7.000906.19081@linus.mitre.org> bs@gauss.mitre.org (Robert D. Silverman) writes:
>>In article <1ifn8mINNc5t@transfer.stratus.com> tnh@sw.stratus.com (Tim Hill) writes:
>>:Dear Bob,
>>:
>>:     I'm sorry if you're having a bad day, but would you please stop wasting
>>:network bandwidth with your flame thrower and offer us some of your wisdom
>> 
>>Why? Most of you don't listen anyway. See below.
>>
>>:on the subject Robin raised?
>>:
>>:     Playing your favorite methods with your favorite partner, if you open
>>:2C in third seat (Chicago, they're vulnerable with 60 on) and LHO overcalls 4S,
>> 
>p>But he asked about some strange 20+ 1NT opening. This is not the same as 2C.
>
>"Strange"?  It's Vienna (only a bit stronger), and we use it precisely to be 
>able to show this sort of hand which isn't quite worth a normal 2C opener.
>


So? It is still strange to 95% of the people reading this group.
How many people have ever played this? It is different enough from
a forcing club, or standard 2C that people can not guess at your
system from only experience.

>>
>>:what are your partner's options?  In particular, what would pass, double, and
>>: 4NT show?
>> 
>>(1) Pass is forcing. It shows a good hand.
>>(2) Double is penalty. It shows either a bad balanced weak hand or one
>>that is not suited for offense in a suit other than spades.
>>It is the most discouraging bid you can make.
>>(3) 4NT is takeout and promises some values with reasonable support for
>>at least 2 suits other than spades. It shows somewhere around 4-7 HCP.
>>A typical hand will be balanced with at least 3 card support for all suits
>>or at least 4-4 in two suits other than spades.
>>(4) 5 of new suit shows a decent 6-bagger. It shows a minimal HCP, but
>>decent suit equivalent of a weak 2-bid.
>>:
>>:     If your partner and RHO pass, what would you call with:
>>:
>>:     9
>>:     KQT
>>:     KQJ98
>>:     AKQ2
>> 
>>I do not open 2C on this hand. I would not open 2C if you held a gun to
>>my head. This hand has between 8 and 9 playing tricks, 3 losers and
>A
>>some eventual losers as well. It is not anywhere close to opening 2C
p>>then rebidding in a minor. It takes a lot better hand to open 2C
>>when intending to show a minor suit, than it does when holding a major.
>>I have said this repeatedly in this forum, but somehow the message just
>>doesn't seem to get through. This is what I meant above about people not 
>>listening. No matter how many times I say it, I still get people (like you)
>A
>>who think random 20 counts not suited to open 2NT should be opened 2C.
>>Do you really think this hand is even close to having a game in a minor?
>
>You've already made that abundantly clear. Well, if you've opened it 1D, and 
>it goes (4S) Pass (Pass), what does partner's pass mean now?
>It _isn't_ forcing, so what does the _net_ think is the best route to
>reopening on such a sequence? 
>

This is another problem. You still haven't given people enough 
information about your system to decide on the original problem.
Would you care to do that?

>>:
>>:How 'bout with:
>>:
>>:     K4
>>:     A62
>>:     A
>>:     AKQJ743
>>:
>>:(You would open both these hands with 2C, wouldn't you?)
>>
>>Over 2C-4S-P-P, I bid a simple 5C. Why is this a problem? It's the
>>value bid on the hand; you have a minimum. The next move is up
>>to partner.
>>
>
>And go off when partner shows up with 
>
>xx
>QJxx
>KQJxx
>xx
>

Boy, What a result monger!
Did you ever consider that you might not always make your bid?

>Or isn't this good enough for a pass?
>
>Robin.

I ,myself, am not a terribly experienced bridge player. As such, I prefer 
to stick to relatively standard methods, and I do not post silly 
bidding problems like yours. I suggest you do the same.

Bob , though his manner may be caustic at times, always has a valid 
point to make. But what you have posted is sheer drivel. There is
nothing to learn, and nothing bridge related to discuss from your 
posts.

Robert Johnston

Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge