From: tcbruno@athena.mit.edu (Tom Bruno)
Subject: Re: 15th Level  Ok, this is in response to the person that said he retires his characters at level 15... I mean, what is the point?  That is when the game starts
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:28:29 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.192738.34499@watson.ibm.com> bergerp@highland.manassas.ibm.com (Patrick Berger x2526 highland) writes:
>to get interesting... That is when all the powerful spells start to come
>in for the mages, and when the fighter types really start to get sharp
>with their swords.... All forms of spell casters would never achieve true
>power if they were limited to level 15.   I, for one, do not retire a
>character until he hits level 45+, it would be pointless.  And contrary to
>some statements I have seen, a character that high is not all powerful.
> Granted, he would kick some hemo-butt on any monster in the monster
>manuals, but only lame DM's and wastoid no brains that use the monster
>manuals completely cant think up new monsters to use.  And level is always
>relative to the world around them.  I had a level 40 Cleric that got his
>face beat in by a Fire Elemental of large proportions...  I currently also
>have a level 18 Magic User/8th level Cleric  that gets his teeth kicked in
>on a regular basis...
>
>  You might say that at that point the monsters get grotesquely huge, well
>again that depends on your point of view.  We fought a dragon once that
>had 1900+ hit points, but when you got to powerful spell casters on your
>side, he lasts as long as any normal dragon would to a "normal" party, and
>does about as much damage.... Granted, the DM has to have a little control
>and be nice to the characters by preventing the dragon from breathing on the
>first round, but usually the characters are experienced enough to know that
>they better have some dragon breath protection handy...  Anyway, you are
>missing out on a lot of fun in the game if you never play a character past
>15th level.... (IMHO)  So, if you get a chance, throw together some tougher
>monsters and get a good DM, and play your heart out....

I always thought adventuring really got interesting around those higher 
levels, too.  I don't want to sound like a munchkin, though-- I love the 
early stages of gaming, when everything outside your door is a threat, and
I try (as a DM) to keep things that way for as long as possible-- years, even.
But high-level campaigns are a whole new vista.  If you play them like the
earlier levels, you're bound to get really bored really fast.

Beyond 'name-level' is the time to build fortresses, carve empires, create
new magicks, explore the multiverse, battle avatars and demons and devils.
A party of 15th-25th level characters actually have a chance of going to Hell
and coming back alive-- don't tell me that it wouldn't be a challenge, either!
Think about it.  Wizard characters can now actually engage in full-time 
magical experimentation and research.  I always thought the neatest thing
about spellcasters was the ability to create new spells and magic items.  At
the high levels, characters can wheel and deal with Demon Lords and their
underlings.  Hell, even BREATHING in many layers of the Abyss can be an
adventure in itself.

Even if you stay in your home plane, characters are now of a caliber to lead
nations, if they'd like.  A 40th-level cleric would be like a Incarnation of
his or her god!  He'd have droves of worshippers, and probably a horde of
enemies who'd perceive him as a threat.  The enemies might not be able to take
down the CLERIC in a fair fight, but then again the cleric has to worry about
safeguarding his 'faithful.'  (a la 'Let my people go...')  It would be fun to
play the Messiah of a campaign world.  40th-level fighters could... well,
FIGHT.  You could take the emphasis off of slaying dragons and dive into the
politics and realities of empire and warfare-- another full-blown campaign.
40th-level rogues could aspire to create a multi-national mafia.

Personally, I'd love to run another high-level game.  But right now the main
characters of the current world are between first and third level, and I like
it that way.  Maybe a long time from now...

>
>  - Rastafan Ballista Durskaen, Legion of the Storm, 44th Ranger Battalion
>
>     -Matthew Royle
>      royle@manvmd1.vnet.ibm.com
>
>
>

- Heinrich, Proprietor of Curious Tomes and Artefacts
  (with franchises in over two hundred alternate Primes)

tom bruno
archaeology
mit
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd