HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kohn@cs.swarthmore.edu (Daniel Kohn)
Subject: Hi Tech Fare Wars: CRS & RMS
Summary: I'd like some information about CRS & RMS systems
Keywords: air travel,prices,CRS,RMS,hi tech,fares,computers
Organization: Swarthmore College
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:38:39 GMT

	The year end double issue of the Economist magazine had a
fascinating article about hi tech fare wars between airlines.  It seems they
use Revenue Management Systems (RMS) to constantly change the prices and
availability of seats in order to maximize revenues.  In addition, they
compete to get travel agents to take their Computer Reservation Systems
(CRS) so as to be able to priortize their own flights.

	I am fascinated by this subject and would appreciate as much
information as you can add to the thread.  Specifically, I am curious about
the mechanisms the RMS uses and ways to defeat it.  The article mentions the
practice of nesting, where you use only the first halfs of two economy
tickets requiring Saturday night stopovers.  This can be much cheaper than
buying a regular, full fare ticket.

	I am thinking of writing a thesis on the industrial organization of
airlines concentarting on their CRS and RMS systems, so any bibliographies
and suggested readings you might have would also be very useful.  Lastly,
are there any other boards you would suggest that I cross-post to?

	Thank you very much.  Cheers.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________________________
Daniel M. Kohn          "studying" abroad at the   International Students House
Swarthmore College     London School of Economics  10 York Terrace East, Rm. 71
kohn@cs.swarthmore.edu    until March 19, 1993         London  England  NW1 4PT
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: United Mileage plus
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 05:46:35 GMT

ci580@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael J. Schofield) wrote: 
->Can someone explain which airlines United allows tickets to be used on
->in respect to free flights obtained through their Mileage Plus
->programme?

mileageplus "partners" approved for awards in 1993 include air france,
alitalia, british midland, iberia, klm (wonder how long this will
last?), lufthansa, mgm grand, sabena, sas, swissair, aloha airlines,
aloha island air.

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: ncole@nyx.cs.du.edu (Noah Cole)
Subject: Re: Coach Airline Seats
Organization: Macalester College, St. Paul Minnesota USA
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 16:14:11 GMT

murphy@well.sf.ca.us (Daniel A. Murphy) writes:

>As somone who is, uh, a little large, the size of coach airline
>seats is of great concern to me.

>I'm wondering if some airliners or some airlines have better coach
>seats than others.  I'm planning a trip to Europe soon, and I'd like
>to minimize discomfort.

>Also, I'd like to know if seat belt extenders are required equipment or
>even standard.  Last time I was in a coach seat, the seat belt wasn't
>large enough for me, but the flight attendent had an "extender," which
>worked fine.  Anyone know if this is normal?
>-- 

Well, TWA is now advertising that they are changing their legroom in coach to
be larger then any other airline, so you might want to investigate them.

TWA Flies to London from St. Louis, and Phill, er oops. They don't
fly from Philly any more (I think they sold it to USAir).  Anyhow, they
fly to Gatwick with 747's from St. Louis anbd also to Paris from Boston
and maybe some other cities.

-Noah Cole
--
Noah Cole		"Outside is America,		     NCOLE@MACALSTR.EDU
Macalester College	and also the car park"	            ncole@nyx.cs.du.edu
St. Paul, MN 55105    	- Bono, 27 December 1989      cncole@coos.dartmouth.edu
612-696-7388 		 	Dublin	            aj909@cleveland.freenet.edu
From: IO11076@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Naushad Hussain)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Northwest Customer Service
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:24:50 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System

I was wondering if anyone can send me the address of Northwest Airline's
customer relations office.
Thanx in advance.
-Naushad
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: If you have 40,000+ miles with Delta
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 05:52:59 GMT

yan-dicky@cs.yale.edu (Dicky Yan) wrote: 
->Just in case this is not already known, normally you can get only a domestic
->roundtrip ticket with 40,000 miles in your account. Delta told me that
->they are running a "special offer". You can go to Europe or Asia using the
->same number of miles (40,000) until April (?).

wotta scam.  i'm flying to vienna in business class on klm for 50,000
mileageplus (united) miles.  that's a "special deal."  the usual
requirement for free business class is 75,000 miles.

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
From: jog@kpc.com (Rajeev Jog)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Another segment(s) question
Date: 26 Jan 93 00:32:29 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Kubota Pacific Computers Inc.

graiche@hamilton.edu (George Raiche) writes:

>Many thanks to those of you who responded to my request for info
>regarding FF/segment credit for a UA involuntary rerouting.  I called
>the Premier desk and, after navigating voicemail to a human, explained
>the situation.  I was credited immediately (almost--the agent put me on
>hold to check with a supervisor) for both the miles and the segment.

George was involuntarily rerouted by UA.  I didn't think it was
possible to get miles for such a situation but obviously you can.   
On a similar note, I wonder if I could get miles for the following...
seeking the net.gurus.travel opinions on this:

I was scheduled to fly from Newark (EWR) to Philly (PHL) on Continental
(CO) and then connect to *American* for PHL->DFW->SJC (San Jose).  The
EWR -> PHL flight was hopelessly late, and I was sure to miss the
connection in PHL.  So CO rerouted me on a EWR->SFO flight (which was
several hours late, but that's another story...it was the weather, not
CO's fault).

My question is: will I be able to get AA miles for PHL->DFW->SJC,
even though the rerouting was done by CO, not AA?  Also, while I'm
at it: can I get CO credit for EWR->PHL???  (I believe they've credited
me for EWR->SFO, though I haven't received a statement.)

I'll summarize replies to the net.

Thanks in advance,
-- 
Rajeev Jog
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kubota Pacific Computer Inc.                                   +1 408 727 8100
2630 Walsh Avenue, Santa Clara, CA. 95051-0905, USA.               jog@kpc.com
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: jpenovic@encore.com (Jan Penovich)
Subject: Re: Another fare war?
Reply-To: jpenovic@encore.com
Organization: Encore Computer Corp., Fort Lauderdale FL
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:13:15 GMT

In article <1jmep1INNm3j@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>,
prabhag@nicolle.iaims.bcm.tmc.edu (Prabha Ganapathy) writes:
> 
> Is there another fare war going on? A friend of mine said that he had
heard on the
> news that America West had cut it's fare by 30% and American Airlines
and US Air
> were going to match this offer. Please let me know if you have heard
the same. 

  I just purchased tickets on Delta at a special low price.
  The travel agent said that tickets at the lower price had to
  be purchased by today (Thurs. 1/21).  She also that all the
  airlines are offering the lower fares.  (BTW, when I called
  American, United, TWA, and Delta before I called the travel
  agent, not one of their reservationists mentioned it to me.)

********************************************************************
TTFN,    ___           *   jpenovic@encore.com
      / /   /  /\   /  *   
     / /___/  /  \ /   *   
/___/ /   /  /    /    *   
                       *   Encore Computer Corp., Ft. Lauderdale, FL
*********************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: daniels@apollo.hp.com (Stewart Daniels)
Subject: Re: United Mileage plus
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:56:50 GMT
	<sjones.727621715@cunews>
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Cooperative Object Computing Division -
	Chelmsford, MA

As of about 2 months ago, add Ansett Australia to the list (SYD<->MEL
for 10,000 miles, return trips between most other capitals for 20,000
miles).

Stewart.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stewart Daniels
Hewlett-Packard Distributed Object Computing Program
250 Apollo Drive, Chelmsford, MA 01824

phone: 	+1-508-436-4139			email: 	daniels@apollo.hp.com
fax:	+1-508-256-3941
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air,rec.travel
From: fea@athena.cs.wayne.edu (Felicitas Atabong)
Subject: Detroit/Madrid roundtrip.
Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit, MI
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:54:33 GMT

I intend to travel to Madrid-Spain from Detroit,Michigan
sometime in July and I was wondering
if anyone could give me some info on how to obtain a well priced ticket,
and the price ranges. Please an e-mail response would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Feli.
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: reb@Ingres.COM (Phydeaux)
Subject: Re: Is this a "segment"?
Reply-To: reb@Ingres.COM (Phydeaux)
Organization: E 4th St Home For The Overeducated Underemployed - New Jersey Div.
Distribution: usa
Date: 22 Jan 93 17:22:51 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.020742.15119@itsmail1.hamilton.edu> graiche@hamilton.edu (George Raiche) writes:
>Here's the problem.  For one of the O'Hare-Syracuse segments, the
>airplane had mechanical problems and we never boarded.  Instead, after a
>number of assurances that the flight would not be cancelled, they
>cancelled the flight and booked many of us onto an American flight bound
>for Syracuse.  I took the American flight.  I had a boarding pass for
>the UA flight;  I was at the gate on time; and my luggage had been
>accepted on the UA aircraft.  (It was eventually transferred to the
>American flight).  I claim that I should receive credit for that last
>segment, but it hasn't been credited to my FF account.  I haven't called
>UA to complain yet.  Anyone have some encouraging/helpful words?

Submit a copy   of your ticket receipt  to  UA, and  get credit.  They
should not give you a hard time about it.  They'll  look to see if the
ticket was issued and  it will have been.  You  paid UA for the ticket
--  the fact that they put  you on  another airline is  their problem.
Now the fun begins ... you can *also* submit your AA boarding pass for
FF credit in their  program -- since you  actually flew a paid segment
on their airline!  
			reb
From: geng@chem.ucsd.edu (George Eng)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Testing
Date: 23 Jan 1993 01:37:51 GMT
Organization: University of California San Diego, Chemistry
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: chedccf0.ucsd.edu

This is a test.  
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: mps1@cec1.wustl.edu (Mihir Pramod Shah)
Subject: Re: FLYING TO TANZANIA & INDIA
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:30:26 GMT

In article <1993Jan18.073134.15416@news.duc.auburn.edu> gdoraisw@eng.auburn.edu writes:
>I am looking for airlines that fly to TANZANIA & INDIA.
>
>I need to visit some one in Tanzania on my way to India, & I need to
>return from India directly.
>
>My probable route would be
>
>ATLANTA/NEW YORK/ANY DESTINATION IN EUROPE(&/or AFRICA)
>DAR-ES-SALAAM/BOMBAY/EUROPE/NEW YORK.
>
>Please send  your responses directly to
>		 gdoraisw@eng.auburn.edu
>
>Thank you for your responses in advance
>
>Gopal

Gopal,
     First off, you can probably get a non-stop flight from Atlanta to several
destinations in Europe.  A stop in New York would probably not be necessary.
Delta has service from Atlanta to numerous European cities, such as
London, Frankfurt (their European hub), Amsterdam, Paris, among others.
Lufthansa, Swissair, KLM, British Airways, and a few other European airlines
also serve Atlanta non-stop from their European hubs.  In terms of airlines
serving India, I assume you know at least a few.  Most major European airlines,
as well as Air Canada, Air-India, Delta, and United, serve India. 
     As far as Dar-es-Salaam is concerned, I can only speculate.  Since
Tanzania was a German colony, I assume Lufthansa (German) would have decent
service to Dar-es-Salaam from their Frankfurt hub.  A few other European
airlines, such as British Airways, should also serve Tanzania.  From Tanzania
to India, I am even less knowledgeable, since this is a very lightly-travelled
route.  You may have to connect somewhere like Nairobi, using Kenya Airlines
(which might also serve India), or the Tanzanian national carrier, the name of
which I don't know.  It is important to point out that the airlines serving
this route aren't of the best quality, but you shouldn't be in bad shape with
Air-India (which does serve the Nairobi-India and Lusaka(Zambia)-India) or
Kenya Airlines (or is it Airways?).
     Coming back from India should be straightforward, as you would simply
connect somewhere in Europe.  Since you are coming back to New York, you can
take Delta or Air India back without connecting, although there would be one
stop in Europe.  
     While Lufthansa serves all the cities you wish to go through, it doesn't
serve the Tanzania-India route, so you will definitely have to use more than
one one airline on your trip.  Here's a list of airlines you may wish to
consider:

Delta
Lufthansa
Swissair
Sabena
KLM
British
Air France
Air India
Kenya Airways (from Nairobi)
(the Tanzanian national carrier)
United
Zambia Airways (from Lusaka) 

I hope this helps

Mihir 
Xref: sparky rec.travel.air:6623 rec.aviation.misc:1477
From: rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Dick Harrigill)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air,rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: United Airlines: Infos and slides sought!
Keywords: United
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:25:51 GMT
Followup-To: rec.travel.air
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group, Seattle

In article <1jju0uEINNi5o@uni-erlangen.de> almeierh@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Axel Meierhoefer) writes:
>I just have read the articles about United's new color scheme
>in 'sci.aeronautics.airliners'.
>What a surprise! Only four years ago in 1988 United revised
>its livery and introduced bigger titles. I always thought it was
>the nicest scheme flying around over the globe.
>I am really disappointed that they replaced it by a (completely?)
>new one. I haven't seen the new one yet, but it can't be as nice
>as the old one was.

I like it, although the scheme is very similar to British Airways.

The fusalage is a transparent "blueish", and the tail is made up
of small dark blue and black rectangles.

Looks great on a 757 (but I'm sure it will look really lousey
on an Airbus!!!! :-)


-- 
Dick Harrigill, an independent voice from:     Boeing Commercial Airplanes 
M/S 9R-49  PO BOX 3707                       Renton Avionics/Flight Systems
Seattle, WA  91824                                  Computing Support
(206) 393-9539    rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com    CDP, PP-ASEL
From: ponamgi@cs.unc.edu (Krish Ponamgi)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: WANTED AIR LINES TICKETS TO PHILLY
Date: 24 Jan 1993 00:30:43 GMT
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: dali.cs.unc.edu


I'd like to fly from RDU (north carolina) to
Philly at the end of March.  Anyone have tickets
available?

Please email....

ponamgi@cs.unc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: thomp962@Armstrong.EDU
Subject: Re: 767's from BWI to Gatwick??
Organization: Armstrong State College, Savannah, GA
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 01:39:14 GMT

>
>For me, the crucial factor is leg-room assuming I managed to get as
>far away from the smokers as possible. This means getting an aisle seat.
>Don't ever let them put you in a bulkhead seat - you cannot stretch your
>legs, plus you may be sitting next to a wailing infant. The best would
>be an aisle seat next to the main over-wing emergency exits - lots of
>legroom BUT be sure that you read and understand the instructions for
>operating the emergency exits. The downside is that you will usually onl
>get a restricted view of the movie screen, if at all (but I find that
>the movies are not really worth watching anyway because the sound qualit
>is so bad).
>
>
Last I looked, 767's have exit doors near the bulkhead in coach, and lack
"exit rows" as one would find on an MD-80 or 757.  The exit row eats are
the first seat from the door.

thomp962@armstrong.edu
From: Thomas Levitan <tlevitan@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Date: 24 Jan 93 13:24 PST
Subject: Re: Is this a "segment"?
Nf-ID: #R:1993Jan22.020742.15119@itsmail1.:320465030:cdp:1644500016:000:471
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!tlevitan    Jan 24 13:24:00 1993


It should be no problem.  I fly NW usually, and they have a voucher that you
can fill out at the ticket counter to get credit when you are redirected.
In fact, it even works when you give up your seat as an "overbooked volunteer"
and they protect you on another airline.  If you didn'
t complete the form at the time of flight, just write or call.  Of course
if this segment will qualify you for the fall promotion, time is running
out.  You might want to call them.
Tom

Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch)
Subject: Re: New Airline Codes
Organization: Somewhere just far enough out of Toronto
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:54:49 GMT

In article <1jgubsEINN9eb@uni-erlangen.de>
	almeierh@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Axel Meierhoefer) writes:

>I think three letter codes for airlines have already been introduced
>some years ago.
>
>My JP already shows three letter airline codes for every airline.
>I don't have it with me now, but I think the following ones are
>right.

Do you have one for Canadian Airlines International?

Is it CDN or CAI?

I remember hearing someone at the airline saying they were looking
forward to the three-letter codes. Seems that as long as only the
two-letter codes were used, Canadian was stuck with the "CP"
designation that's a throwback to the old Canadian Pacific Airlines.
The Canadian Pacific transportation company (still owns hotels, trains,
and mines) hasn't had an ownership stake in Canadian for quite a while.

-- 
 Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
         evan@telly.on.ca / uunet!utzoo!telly!evan / (416) 452-0504
What's with all this multimedia stuff? Most vendors can't get *one* done right.
Organisation: European Space Operation Centre (E.S.O.C)
Date: Thursday, 28 Jan 1993 01:02:44 CET
From: <KCHAN@ESOC.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: 767's from BWI to Gatwick??

In article <26JAN199318360704@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov>, bwood@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov
(William Wood) says:
>
>  On a flight I'll be taking from Baltimore to Gatwick in March, I
>found out the service will be on a 767.  I've flown to Europe a few
>times on both the old and newer 747 models.  I didn't think a 767
>had the range ability to acheive a trip of this distance.
>
Yes they do! In fact AA flies (or at least used to) a 767 for one of
their twice daily flights from London Heathrow to LA (and vice versa,
I suppose). Approx great circle mileages: LHR-LAX=5400, LHR-BWI=3600.
There was some concern at the beginning about the 767 getting the
necessary certification for extended twin engine operations over
water but that is all now water under the bridge! I have never flown
in a 767 before and in theory it could be quieter than a 747, 2 fewer
engines. Anybody with any comparisons?

>  Does anyone have experiences travelling long distances? If so,
>what seats would you suggest (coach) to be the most comfortable.
>I should mention that the airline is U.S. Air.  Thanks

For me, the crucial factor is leg-room assuming I managed to get as
far away from the smokers as possible. This means getting an aisle seat.
Don't ever let them put you in a bulkhead seat - you cannot stretch your
legs, plus you may be sitting next to a wailing infant. The best would
be an aisle seat next to the main over-wing emergency exits - lots of
legroom BUT be sure that you read and understand the instructions for
operating the emergency exits. The downside is that you will usually onl
get a restricted view of the movie screen, if at all (but I find that
the movies are not really worth watching anyway because the sound qualit
is so bad).

Have a good trip.


-----
Khee Chan
BITNET/EARN: kchan@esoc, kchan@caltech     SPAN: jplsp::kchan
INTERNET: kchan@jplsp.jpl.nasa.gov, kchan@caltech.edu
I speak for no-one, and no-one speaks for me. Sometimes not even myself!
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: rudvin@ncse01.tele.nokia.fi
Subject: AEROFLOT
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 09:27:50 GMT


Some time ago there was some discussion about the Russian (Soviet)
airline Aeroflot. I'd just like to add my experience in case someone
is interested in flying with them in the future:

I recently returned from a trip Helsinki-Moscow-Karachi (and return).
I travelled with my family (wife and two small daughters). We had
heard many not-too-encouraging things about the airline, but decided
to try them since it was absolutely the cheapest fare.
Some comments:

-       The planes are small (very little leg-room unless you have
        the seats right up front, which we had for our baby basket),
        but ok. The interior is not maintained very well.

-       We had a long stay at Moscow airport, but there is a good
        duty free there, and we also took advantage of the "Mother
        and child room" which proved very useful.

-       Free meals are provided for those with a long wait. But it
        is nothing much to look forward to. Our breakfast was a little
        tea in a glass, two slices of hard white bread and some sausage.
        And the waiting time for this was min. 1/2 hour.

-       The meals on the plane are good (at least edible).

-       On the board pass, we were allocated seat numbers, but this didn't
        mean a thing. It was first come first serve, and naturally a mad
        rush for the door when boarding. On the Karachi-Moscow leg, we
        were the last to board, and naturally our places for the baby
        basket were taken. But the airhostess kindly gave us very nice
        seats in their Business Class (yes, it does exist on Aeroflot!)
        with lots of leg-room.

-       At Moscow airport very many of us were approached by the Russian
        guards (and women in the "Mother and Child Room") asking for
        cigarettes. So take some with you if you plan to travel through
        Moscow.

Our experience was very positive, and we would do it again apart from one
fact: I've heard that because of the worsening Russian economic situation,
the airline does problems with spare parts. Ie. safety could be a problem.
But how much truth there is in this, I dont' know. (Many of my fellow-
passengers said "Never Again!")

-Stein Rudvin
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air