HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mimir@hardy.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Documented Evidence
Date: 5 Jan 93 20:47:14 GMT
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu

In article <1349@abb-sc.abb-sc.COM> ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) writes:
>
>	I do wonder just what evidence people want to see though......because 
>there really isn't any *physical* evidence at all to speak of! What do you 
>leave behind? A trail in the hills and a collection of herbs? A knife and 
>maybe a pouch with some personal talismans in it? No, what one leaves behind 
>that is important is one's children or someone who one can pass it down to. 
>Religion and magic are kept in the mind, so what do you want to see?

 Some fairly comprehensive oral beliefs that are not obviously straight
out of one of Crowley's books would be a good start. Evidence that this
has been passed down from family members would be another. Evidence comes
in all sorts of forms but people saying "Trust me" doesn't help the case.

Wassail,
Grendel Grettisson
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:14964 talk.religion.misc:25179
From: altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim)
Subject: Re: something irritating in Ms. Magazine
Organization: California State University Sacramento
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 23:10:13 GMT

In article <w5c8wB5w164w@tweekco.uucp> alizard@tweekco.uucp (A.Lizard) writes:
>
>I lost interest in Ms. after hearing about a story where the closing
>of a gay/lesbian bookstore in Canada due to their carrying a magazine
>(On Our Backs, I think) considered "pornographic" was hailed as a
>feminist victory. 
>
>I suspect that the proper thing to do with Ms. Magazine is to ignore
>its existence.
>
>Blessings...
>A.Lizard

A.Lizard,

I suspect you are not a reader, nor know of its recent history of 
collapse and rebirth without advertisement. Nor of its rather singular
coverage of world news regarding women, its interesting articles on 
religion and social issues.

I would hope that any person interested in issues facing women would 
check out the magazine for themselves. Even if the story cited is true,
it hardly characterizes Ms., nor should be used as a sole criterion for
being considered a valuable source.

I personally enjoy reading Ms. when I get a chance. I just finished 
an older issue (though still after "rebirth") that had an interesting
article on the Bel Morte matriachs in South America. 

Blessings,

Murray

-- 
Murray M. Altheim      "Ils ont l'orteil de Bouc, & d'un Chevreil l'oreille,
Instructional Consultant    La corne d'un Chamois, & la face vermeille
CSU, Sacramento          Comme un rouge Croissant: & dancent toute nuict
altheimm@csus.edu       Dedans un carrefour, ou pres d'une eau qui bruict."
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Proof That GUI is SATANIC!!!!
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<1993Jan11.173351.9262@pro-haven.cts.com> 
	<2B521390.6364@news.service.uci.edu>
Date: 12 Jan 1993 18:54:48 UTC

In article <2B521390.6364@news.service.uci.edu> 
cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.173351.9262@pro-haven.cts.com> 
troyce@pro-haven.cts.com (Troyce Wilson) writes:
>>I don't know about GUI, but on another computer service, people were
>>talking about how Pat Robertson was saying that credit cards were Satanic. 
>>I wonder if this means he won't take donations on charge cards anymore?
>This had something to do with a certain kind of credit card having the
>digits 666 in the numbers.

Revelation 13:17,18 (KJV): And that no man might buy or sell, save he
that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the
beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred
threescore and six.

UPC Bar Codes have 666 embeded into the code. Credit cards allow central
computers to keep track of what you buy. SPOOKY, isn't it? I don't know
about you but this just sends shivers up my spine, and I mean that in the
kindest way. The Stark Fist of Removal will come quickly. The
SuperNatural JHVH-1 has a cunning plan.
From: tratclif@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Tracy Ratcliff)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Space, the final frontier
Date: 12 Jan 93 01:10:39 GMT
Organization: Ohio University CS Dept,. Athens

There's been a lot of arguing over the length of a rail gun (see References:
line) at a 'reasonable' acceleration.  I just read on sci.space that a _gas_
gun designed to loft a package (I believe) into a suborbital trajectory is 
designed for an acceleration of _1 million_ g's.  I can't remember the 
formula for length (that B.S. in physics wasn't worth much was it??) but it 
must be under 100 meters.

I've seen the acceleration figures for a rail gun, but I can't remember them.
I'll keep an eye out.
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:15067 talk.religion.misc:25463
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: The meaning of "pagan"
Date: 7 Jan 93 21:20:05 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

ses2@po.CWRU.Edu (S. E. Stansfield) writes:


>In a previous article, drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake) says:
>
>>*DISCLAIMER* The opinions and thoughts which I present here on this thread
>>and in this post are not necessarily my own.  They are reactions, both past
>>and projected, by Christian fundamentalists to the arguments presented.  I
>>deliberately take this position to further understand the reasoning behind
>>it and educate myself on some aspects of apologetics.
>>
>>
>>I know this because God has promised this in his Holy Scriptures, and
>>God cannot lie.
>
>If this is true, then how come his book says that pi = 3.0?

It doesn't.  The verses you are talking about describe a basin, and give
measurements.  The context does not specify pi=3.0, and the data given are
correct to within percentage points...

 -Steve
--
  The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                         -------------------
   adams@spss.com                                  Phone: (312) 329-3522
   Steve Adams        "Space-age cybernomad"       Fax:   (312) 329-3558
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: the PENTACLES, people!!!!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 12 Jan 93 00:33:20 GMT

In article <93011.45407.L629159@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM> L629159@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:

[deleted]

><end original>
>
>  I share your frustration at the ability of netters to ignore the
>importance of a post to pervert a thread into a discussion of
>whatever they individually find interesting.  That said...
>
>  People assign meanings to symbols.  The symbols mean what people
>want or intend that they should mean.  The meaning may change (indeed,
>must change) depending on who is using the symbol.  For many people
>here in the US, any non-Christian symbol is, by definition, Satanic.
>The pentacle has the advantage for the editors of Ms magazine, or
>more likely the artist, as being easily recognized as non-Christian.
>That's what they wanted, that's what they got.  Why should we
>expect anything else? Especially from mass market media?

I did expect a little better from Ms., simply because they purport to be
so informed, and this is something that means a great deal to many women
and men who call themselves feminist -- and isn't that what Ms. is
supposed to understand best?  After ignoring women's spirituality for so
long and then making such a cursory reference to it, I was angered at
how they could treat something so intimately connected to feminism (for
many women Witches and Pagans) in such a callous sensationalist way.

I just expected better from Ms., stupidly failing to realize that, after
all, it and "Geraldo" are kin under the skin in being mass media. 

Blessings,
Janis
From: casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Paul Cass)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Ritualistic questions
Date: 8 Jan 93 04:41:52 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: atlantis.cs.orst.edu

In article <1iil2mINN5r7@shelley.u.washington.edu> mimir@hardy.u.washington.edu (Al Billings) writes:
>In article <1iiadjINNa28@leela.CS.ORST.EDU> casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Paul Cass) writes:
>>I am currently reading "Year of Moons, Season of Trees" by Pattalee 
>>Glass-Koentop and I have run into a bit of a block.  Is there anyone
>>on alt.pagan who is willing to go into a little depth on the subject
>>of the Ogham Tree Calendar?  The further I read the more obscure the
>>subject seems to become.
>
> I don't know much about the book or the subject but I have it on good
>authority that that book is pap and has no basis in history other than in
>Graves' White Goddess (which springs from his own inspiration). In other
>words, it isn't historical and doesn't have much to do with the Celts.
>
>Wassail,
>Grendel Grettisson

Grendel...you're in the wrong thread...you're looking for documented 
evidence.  I don't really care one way or the other about historical
basis.  What I am looking for is formulating rituals that will assist
me in making connections with Gaia, Mother Earth, etc.  Infact I think
the whole debate over historic basis wholes little validity for modern
society.  What a tribal religious group did 2000, 5000, or 10000 years
ago can not be known with any degree of accuracy.  Even if we could 
know what a they believed and did I doubt that it would relate well
to our needs in the here and now.

We are all the products of the 20th century and our understanding is
that of the  20th century.  Infact society has moved so fast that the
religious and philisophical understandings of the last century are
hardly relevant.  At the risk of breaking one of my own rules I will
bring up the Christians in order to illustrate what I mean.  They
persist in attempting to foster a creation myth that is unsatisfactory
in application to science and society.  What is needed is a new
creation myth.  One that speaks to the issue of the Earth as a 
biological entity.  One that addresses the degradation of society
and the biosphere.  In short, a creation myth that incorporates
humanity into the patterns of life on Earth rather than appointing
dominion over all else.

If I can find a ceremony or ritual in "Year of Moons, Season of Trees"
or develop a ritual from it, that allows me to establish a bonding
with the Earth then the historical basis for that book is irrelevant.

BB
Paul

-- 
                          * * * * * * *
"It is possible to join forces, to identify common goals, and to agree on
 common action." - U.N. World Commission on Development and Environment
		       casspa@jacobs.cs.orst.edu
From: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Space, the final frontier
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:25:13 GMT
Reply-To: boylan@ljohub.enet.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1993Jan5.192441.10987@radian.uucp>, markbr%radian@natinst.com
(markbr) writes:

[ re-postings deleted ]

> Actually, for a lot of cargo, you could probably go to 15-20 gees.
> That actually wouldn't make a railgun unreasonable, esp if you ran it
> up a mountain.
>

Again - length = (exit velocity) ** 2 / acceleration

	s = (8,000 m/sec) ** 2 / (9.8 m/sec**2 * 15g) = 435 km (about 261 miles)
	s = (8,000 m/sec) ** 2 / (9.8 m/sec**2 * 20g) = 327 km (about 196 miles)

[ further quotes deleted ]

> With the velocities
(accelerations, actually)
>                     I just mentioned, without caclulating it, I
> suspect you're talking about a 40-or-so mile gun. One could even partially
> evacuate such a tunnel, if it's only 3m or so across (vide the SSC). On
> the other hand, for more delicate cargo (like passengers), you could go for,
> say, a third of that final veloicity, and use the railgun *INSTEAD* of those
> damn solid-fuel boosters. That would certainly cut down *drastically* on
> the cost-to-orbit.

Ees seemple calculation, senior - turn the above formula about, and you
get:

	acceleration = (exit velocity) ** 2 / length

	a = (8,000 m/sec) ** 2 / 67 km = 955 m/sec**2 or about 97 gs

Just since you asked . . . :-)

				- - Steve

--
Don't miss the 49th New England Folk Festival,
April 23-25, 1993 in Natick, Massachusetts!
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Proof That GUI is SATANIC!!!!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 12 Jan 93 00:40:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.173351.9262@pro-haven.cts.com> troyce@pro-haven.cts.com (Troyce Wilson) writes:
>I don't know about GUI, but on another computer service, people were
>talking about how Pat Robertson was saying that credit cards were Satanic. 
>I wonder if this means he won't take donations on charge cards anymore?


This had something to do with a certain kind of credit card having the
digits 666 in the numbers.

Blessings,
Janis 

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: Amazons and the Labrys - was: Re: Question/symbol
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:13:01 GMT
Organization: n.o.y.b

In article <2B4E0465.14161@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>In article <4164@master.CNA.TEK.COM> richa@grizzly.CNA.TEK.COM (Grizzly Amber) writes:
>
>[deleted]
>
>>Now, my question to you folks is this: By me wearing this symbol,
>>will the world at large think I am part of what you have been discussing
>>rather than accepting my own interpretations?
>>
>>Griz
>
>Well, if *I* saw you, I'd assume that you were lesbian if you are a
>woman, and something "else" if you were a man.  This goes against what
>*I* would wear one for, though, and I'd like to get a labrys.  I am
>attempting to excavate for myself a mediterranean/Minoan spirituality
>and apply it to modern life.  The labrys is a Minoan symbol and I would
>wear it to signify that.
>
Actually, after skimming through the critiques & respones to Gimbutas',
I was struck with the thought that, what with *only* women pictured 
with labrys, that a) if I was cutting wood, a *lot*, I'd want a double
bitted axe (gee, like I have at home, that I bought when I was thinking
of moving to Maine, years ago), since one has to sharpen the thing less
often; b) cutting wood *could* have been "women's work", or c) if women
were the "keepers of the hearth", and that was sacred, then cutting wood
for the hearth (as opposed to cutting it for any other purpose, incl. non-
sacred bonfires) could have been a religious duty of women.

Just unsupported (except by logic & experience) thoughts. 

	mark
From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Family passed religions
Date: 8 Jan 93 19:01:00 GMT
Organization: Kaos Laboratories


In article <1993Jan7.191236.22687@radian.uucp>, markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes...

(.....Robert's facinating and informatiave post deleted........)

>Robert, 
>   I think it would be of interest to most of us if you could reference
>some of the literature that you mention on eastern European traditions,
>esp if anything's still in print.
> 
>   Thanks!
> 
>	mark

	You beat me to the punch Mark, I was just going to ask myself! My 
friend would also be very interested obviously. And witht the Soviet Bloc 
down maybe we will get to learn more abou the traditions that have survived 
there.


				- Ashley
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pierson@kukri.mps.mlo.dec.com (dan pierson)
Subject: Re: Space, the final frontier
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
	<1993Jan7.015714.9139@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:39:16 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.015714.9139@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
   : You suggested accelerating the mass within 1 second, an acceleration
   : of 8,000 meters / second ** 2.  Let's see - that's only 816 g's.

   You couldn't ship any kind of material, in a container - using that
   kind of acceleration. The container would have to be so massive that
   there would not be any room for the cargo. You could shape and ship
   uncontained solid materials only.

I've been trying to stay out of this but: people HAVE shipped working
electronics, gyroscopes and other things to a height of over 100 miles
with accelerations that result in over 1000g's.  I've talked to some
of these folks.  The cost per pound is comparatively very low and
startup costs are reasonable; they'd be doing it on a larger
commercial scale today if not for the continual opposition of the DOD
and related agencies.

                                            dan

--
Dan L. Pierson          Digital Equipment Corporation
pierson@crl.dec.com     Massively Parallel Systems Group
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek)
Subject: Religion on PBS
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 17:02:45 GMT

Didn't PBS air a documentary on the song "Amazing Grace"?  (I saw the
documentary, I'm just not sure what channel it was taped from)  It was
very historical and anthropological and all that, but the fact remains
that we kept hearing this Christian hymn being sung over and over in
all sorts of variations.
From: alizard@pil
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Space, the final frontier
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 93 19:39:49 PST

Re: Re: Space, the final frontier
 
> From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
> Subject: Re: Space, the final frontier
> Uh -- how do you keep the launching station from soaking up momentum by
> shooting off in the opposite direction?  You'd have to build a PRETTY
> BIG FUCKING STATION.
> Blessings,
> Janis 

Exactly correct. I'm still trying to get my spreadsheet converted to something
this braindamaged DOS clone will be able to upload... I can say that the
structure I've got in mind is a bit under 100 miles in length.
Blessings,,,
                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== sum saurus, sum saurus, sum maximus saurus! ====== 93 ======
 (slogan contributed by Jessica Mc Geary)  (translated by Murray Altheim)
Mail to me should be sent to:       |  There are no fnords in this sig file.
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM     |  autoreply to address I posted this
     ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard     |  solstice or two for my answer.
alizard@seer.mystic.com             |              Kallisti!
^^^use ONLY if all else fails       |  PGP2.0 public key available on request

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Public Image Limited VBBS (510) 831-3634 [MUDS] Free Internet Access.
Subs-On Request/PCP Via CALOAK...     VBBS 5.608
From: Vossdavi@student.msu.edu (Lisa  Ann)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: something irritating in Ms. Magazine
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Date: 11 Jan 1993 04:35:15 GMT
Organization: Chaotic Goods
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cemmac02.cem.msu.edu

In article <1993Jan10.190739.9219@pro-haven.cts.com>,
troyce@pro-haven.cts.com (Troyce Wilson) wrote:
> 
> Did you see Prime Time Live this past week?  They did a story about
> psychologists that specialize in convincing people they were ritually
> abused as children by their "Satanic" parents.  It did a good job of
> showing that these so-called counsellors were projecting their own beliefs
> on their patients, and that there has NEVER been any evidence to prove that
> any of this has ever happened.
> ---
> Internet: troyce@pro-haven.cts.com
> UUCP:     crash!pro-haven!troyce        

     I'm sure somewhere out there you could find a family of satan
worshippers who abuse their kids. I find it completely ridiculous that
there are as many cases as those few therapists on the ritual abuse
bandwagon claim there are. Sounds like the latest psycho-fad. The fact that
the leader of the pack is under investigation for fraud doesn't help their
case much either. The F.B.I. said they couldn't find any evidence to
support satanic cults using human sacrifices.(A very important detail since
many 'victims' claimed to be deeply traumitized by drinking the blood of
human sacrifices!)  The worst part is the fact that these 'victims' of
ritual abuse probably do need help quite desperately. Their true problem
will remain untreated because of a few quacks looking for a field to be the
expert in. In the mean time, let's hope this subject doesn't become one of
those horrid little t.v. docudramas. I'm still a closet witch. If that
happens I'm bolting the door from the inside! Anyone likely to believe that
drivel isn't going to know the difference between a wiccan and a satin
worshipper!

     Blessed be, Lisa Ann, or she who is perpetually annoyed by incompetent
therapists.

********************************************************************************
     Late last night and the night before. Tommy knockers, tommy knockers,
knocking at my door. Want to go out, don't know if I can. 'Cause I'm so
afraid of the tommy knocker man. - Stephen King
********************************************************************************
From: pat@Autodesk.COM (Pat Huey)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Celtic/Druidic Marriage/Commitment Rituals
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:40:52 GMT
Organization: Autodesk Inc., Sausalito CA, USA

A lesbian couple I know wants to have a commitment ceremony, and they'd
like to base it on early Celtic Druidic marriage rituals. Does anyone
know anything about this type of ritual, or know where they can find
more about it? 

If anyone has any ideas, it'd be most appreciated! Please email 
christinad@autodesk.com or pat@autodesk.com with your suggestions.

Thanks,
Pat

pat@autodesk.com
From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Amazons and the Labrys - was: Re: Question/symbol
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:46:14 GMT
Organization: Kaos Laboratories


In article <4164@master.CNA.TEK.COM>, richa@grizzly.CNA.TEK.COM (Grizzly Amber) writes...
> 
>I have been following this discussion, not due particularly to any
>strong interest in people who call themselves "Amazons" or to gay
>or lesbian activities, but because you *appear* to be discussing a
>symbol that I wear too.
> 
>I have a small double-edged ax on a chain. There is a dragon wound
>around the haft and it hangs blades down.
> 
>To me, the dragon represents earth power (ala druids) and the two
>opposing blades say that the truth cuts both ways.
> 
>Now, my question to you folks is this: By me wearing this symbol,
>will the world at large think I am part of what you have been discussing
>rather than accepting my own interpretations?
> 
>Griz


	Not that I have any problem with attaching your own ideas to a symbol, 
I think it's a fine thing, but should the people I know see a man wearing the 
labrys, well, they'll look at you funny at the least, presume you ignorant of 
what the majority believes the symbol represents, and possibly question you. 
In the case of some of the more fevrent Bulldykes of a Dianic coven I am 
friends with, you might find yourself in a rather heated debate on wheter you 
should be wearing that particular symbol.

	A labrys or boleen is presented to the woman at her confirmation 
ceremony as an Amazon by the group I know. Initiates must earn the right to 
wear the symbol. They obviously would give *you* a REALLY odd look shoud they 
see you wearing it. 

	I don't know what is commonly meant by the direction (up or down) of 
the ax-head. Does anyone know if this is precieved as being symbolic and if so, 
what it means?

				- Ashley



(note to flamers: I wouldn't refer to a woman as a Bulldyke unless she refers 
to herslef as one due to the common negative connotations this word somtimes 
caries. The woman I refrence refers to herself as such.)
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:15065 talk.religion.misc:25450