HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jet@win30.nas.nasa.gov (J. Eric Townsend)
Subject: Re: Laserdisk Digitizing...
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Organization: Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation, NASA Ames
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:53:08

"Larry" == Larry Clevenger <larry.clevenger@mtask.omahug.org> writes:

Larry> How do you do it off the air?  With a frame-grabber?  I don't
Larry> have a freeze-frame grabber thingy...  Ugh...

I have a JVC (8000 series, now out of production) with built-in
"digital freeze".  It's not as good as a frame-grabber, but it'll do.

Larry> Hoping to pick up another Stereo VCR (Sanyo model).  Pausing
Larry> makes line-bar noise... Ick. I don't know if the Laserdisk does

Good luck finding a non-professional deck that does *not* have noise
in pause.  That's one of the reasons I picked up the JVC (demo model,
got it for $850).

--
             J. Eric Townsend --  jet@nas.nasa.gov -- 415.604.4311
                              '92 R100R, DoD# 0378
"I love the iPSC/860.
The iPSC/860 is my friend." (repeat until your code runs...)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: Hamish.Macdonald@x400gate.bnr.ca (Hamish Macdonald)
Subject: Re: Toaster on A4000????
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Organization: Bell Northern Research
	<1992Sep26.225822.19805@news.unomaha.edu> <tdenbo.717640872@guru>
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 16:54:21 GMT

>>>>> On 28 Sep 92 00:41:12 GMT,
>>>>> In message <tdenbo.717640872@guru>,
>>>>> tdenbo@dwp.la.ca.us (Tom Denbo) wrote:

Tom> CBM didn't give NewTek a A3000 until 2 weeks before the
Tom> announcement, I doubt if relations between them has improved with
Tom> the A4000!

NewTek wouldn't have needed an A3000 if they'd stuck to specifications
for the size of a ZorroII slot.

Instead of sticking to specifications, they built a card using all the
available space in an A2000.

Unfortunately, this space was not available in the A3000.

Any ZorroII card with a size conforming to the specifications will fit
in an A3000, however.

Another case of developers ignoring specifications.  duh....

Blame NewTek.
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: Toaster on A4000????
Date: 30 Sep 1992 00:45:15 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

Hamish.Macdonald@x400gate.bnr.ca (Hamish Macdonald) writes:
: NewTek wouldn't have needed an A3000 if they'd stuck to specifications
: for the size of a ZorroII slot.

What's worse, the NewTek card is the only Zorro II card that I know of
that is like that.

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: 	"Yeah, if improving the system is screwing the user base,     :)
(:	 you all need to be screwed more often." -Dave Haynie	      :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
From: jbono@tension.UUCP (John Bono)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: Problem with No New Copper in A4000
Date: 1 Oct 92 21:42:41 EST
Organization: High Tension BBS

>That is the same as 24-bit in 640x480... I bet that is what 
>it means...
> 
>None have told me if the colors work that way in other modes. 
>This was a good thng for CBM, but I know of PC cards that 
>will do the same thing... And the numbers of cards are growing. 
>You can get 640x480 in 24-bit on the MAC's even. 
>I bet the real-time animation speeds are just becuase of the 32-bit 
>bus and the on-board 68040... 
>
>Later
>
 
With the 4000, you can for all practical purposes have 24-bit color in all
video modes using HAM-8 mode.  Before you say "OH, NO! NOT HAM!" there is a big
difference between HAM-8 and regular HAM mode.  For one, there is much less
fringing, because the base palette is much larger than regular HAM.  Secondly,
since HAM-8 can be used at any resolution, any fringing that might be
noticeable on a 320*200 ham screen will disappear at 1280*200 screen(not
including overscan).  Secondly, the reason why animation speeds have picked up
so much in the A4000 is because 1)The blitter has been improved and optimized,
and 2) the bandwidth is a true 32-bit and the custom chips clock has been
doubled over ECS.  This means that you will be able to animate 640*480 HAM-8
screens at the same speed it took to animate 320*240 screens on an A3000.  In
other words, you would have a difficult time differentiating between a HAM8
animation and video tape, due to the high speed and number of colors.
 
John
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: strider@hydra.unm.edu (nathan s  alteronellis)
Subject:  Help!! Graphics!! 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 01:20:36 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Help me!  I am a lowly novice to the use of a modem.
How can I get a program to convert pictures to a format
useable on the Amiga.  ie.  .gif to .iff.

How do I get a program to decompress files and how do I
use it.

What about animations?

How do I get these files to my Amiga?

Feel free to call me an idiotic piece of scum, but give me answers please.

Ta-Da!  AmigaMan.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: jpalko@krk.fi (Jukka Palko)
Subject: Gif->IFF
Organization: Radio Club of Kauniainen (OH2NRG)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:45:00 GMT

For those who want to convert really well Gif pictures to Ham pictures,
I suggest a program that I saw at my friends.. 
I think it was the best I have seen, and was called HamLab-Plus.
With that you can also convert Gifs or IFFs to PostScript, but what we 
got out was nice, but I think that on a BW-Laser you have to make a 
negative of the picture... :-)
Anyway, the program is really nice..

-- 
      Jukka Palko,                   
     Bodomintie 14			InterNet: jpalko@krksun.krk.fi
      02940 Espoo                /// 
       Finland                  ///  Yet another happy Amiga user!!!
Sysop of Rising Sun            ///   
BBS: +358-0-5053942 2400 \\\  ///    Home: +358-0-841306
     +358-0-5053692 9600  \\\///     Data:     -||-
     +358-0-5053673 1200   \XX/      
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: ins141f@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (Adam Bradley)
Subject: Wasp Converter On Unix
Organization: Monash University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 05:03:37 GMT

For a while now I have been trying to compile Wasp 2.02 beta on the machine
at Uni.  Fair enough I hear you say !  Well, heres the problem.   

1. It doesnt work
2. I cant get past 1 :)

Has anyone managed to do this ?  BTW, were running a Decstation 5000 here...
if thats any help.

Any help appreciated.


Adam Bradley - 2nd Year Comp Sci            |       ///
 Monash University - Clayton Campus         |      /// Amiga makes it 
  Melbourne Victoria, 3192.                 | \\\ ///    possible ! 
   email - ins141f@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au  |  \XX// #include "std_disc.h"
    "The time will come, one day you'll see, that we can all be friends" Queen89
      "The great thing with standards is that there are so many of them..."
From: g.coulter@daresbury.ac.uk (Gary.C)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Upgrade 2000 or to 4000
Date: 2 Oct 92 14:20:52 GMT
Reply-To: g.coulter@daresbury.ac.uk
Organization: Daresbury Laboratory, UK

I already have a B2000 with the following specification:

	(1) 1.2 Kickstart
        (2) 20  Mega/Byte Hard disk.
        (3) CPU standard 68000

I have looked at upgrading the above machine to the following

     	(1) GVP G-Force 030 50Mhz Combo -50Mhz 68030
            50Mhz 68882, 8 Mega/Byte ram SCSI controler

    	(2) 120 Mega/Byte hard disk.
	(3) 2.04 Kickstart + Workbench to suit.
        (4) DCTV
        (5) MegaChip 2000 2Meg Agnus

The main use of my machine is running Read3D, creating raytraced
animations. ie Rendering. What I want to know is (1) does anyone
have any comments on the above upgrade. (2) Would I be better to
upgrade  to a 040  board. (3) or  would I do better to sell  the 
B2000 and buy a Amiga 4000. If so does anyone know the price of
an Amiga 4000 + Appropriate monitor in the UK I have heard about
2500 pounds.


     (*) 
      \    __
   AMIGA  ///  Gary Coulter
     __ \///   SERC Daresbury Laboratory
     \\\/X/(*)       
      \X//\/   G.Coulter@Daresbury.ac.uk




 
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.graphics:6446 comp.sys.amiga.hardware:16182
From: andrey@cco.caltech.edu (Andre T. Yew)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics,comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re: ## 24 Bit Graphics Cards - A summary ##
Date: 30 Sep 1992 04:40:51 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu
Keywords: 24 bit opalvision iv24 rambrandt vivid24

mbuc1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (Matthew Richard     Buchanan       ) writes:

>Next: OpalVision. Again some incredible claims, good software support promised
>		  from many major houses. Priced a little higher, but then
>		  even greater cost for the three add-ons planned to date.
>		  These are: Framegrabber/Genlock, the DeInterlacer and the
>		  Video Roaster (for digital fx).

	Opalvision is totally incredible.  It has the best paint
program I've seen on any PC.  Don't worry about the flicker-
fixer -- the flicker is surprisingly unnoticeable (more colors?).
This board is fast -- I saw realtime playback of digitized
movies.  Couple it with a nice Wacom tablet, and you have a
really great paint system.  In my opinion, anyone buying
a Firecracker right now has rocks in their heads.  The
board also comes with stuff so you can program it directly.
The lowest price I've seen is $975 at a LOCAL dealer.

>Top: Rambrandt and Vivid24. I have only read about the Rambrandt - extensive

	Haven't seen a Rambrandt, but the Vivid 24 is way overhyped
and overrated (of course you all knew that already, right? :)

	Why don't you say what you're going to be using the board
for?  That would help us direct our comments.

--Andre

-- 
             Andre Yew andrey@cco.caltech.edu (131.215.139.2)
From: eyeq@wpi.WPI.EDU (Brent Burkholder)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: Aladdin 4D vs. Real 3D 2.0 ???
Date: 29 Sep 1992 00:05:17 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu

What I REALLY want to see is a cycle editor that will simply let you
specify different objects for each stage of the cycle. I've got several
projects that need this feature either because I've never been able to get
Imagine's cycle editor to work correctly  or because the estetics of the
object required that they be seemless and couldn't have parts stuck into
it in any case.

Since I'll probably never see that I'm working on a program that will
(hopefully) read in an imagine scene and alter it with all my data intact.
Its just TOO much work to do it all by hand (and I have done it... ick)

brent

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: johnl@crash.cts.com (John Lindwall)
Subject: Re: Comments on NEC 3FGX
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:42:19 PDT

In article <QelZ8WS00Vp288vktn@andrew.cmu.edu> Berend Ozceri <bo24+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>I am planning to get an Amiga 4000 soon. I don't want to buy a Commodore
>monitor with it. They seem to have a bad reputation (Although my 1084
>survived without any problems for four years, and is still working) I
>was considering the NEC 3FGX monitor.

I'm in the same boat.  I've received some info from NEC regarding their
monitors (BTW if you have a fax machine, you can have NEC send you product
info by calling 1-800-366-0476.  Its a computerized "fax server").  Anyway,
The NEC 3FGx is listed as
      Horizontal Freq: 31 Khz to 38.5 Khz & 47.8 Khz to 49
      Vertical Freq:   55 Hz to 90 Hz (automatically)

The flyer for the A4000 states: 
      Horizontal Freq: 15 Khz - 31 Khz
      Vertical Freq:   50 Hz - 72 Hz

So the vertical scan rate is OK, but the 3FGx won't go down to the Amiga's
15 Khz modes.  I assume this is a "bad thing", but can anyone enlighten us as
to the exact problems this will cause?  What happens if I boot my A4000
off of a 1.3/2.0 floppy?

---
John Lindwall                                    johnl@crash.cts.com
"...always use the formal attribute mechanisms for changing any field;
do not poke the objects." -- Jim Mackraz
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: trevore@vast.unsw.edu.au (Trevor Elbourne (Supr. Hell) BE)
Subject: AGA compatible graphics board
Organization: University of New South Wales
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 00:15:30 GMT

[ Article crossposted from comp.sys.amiga.advocacy ]
[ Author was Trevor Elbourne (Supr. Hell) BE (trevore@vast.unsw.edu.au) ]
[ Posted on Thu, 1 Oct 1992 23:59:57 GMT ]

A group of electrical engineers & computer scientists here at UNSW have begun 
designing a ZorroII, AGA compatible graphics board. The board itself will support
resolutions up to 1280x1024 in 24-bit. It will be totally system call compatible
with AGA and ECS, so that HAM modes etc will be supported, which will mean rewriting 
of certain libraries (definately graphics.library and maybe layers.library and 
intuition.library). When a AGA HAM8 screen is opened, the board will actually open
a true 18-bit screen and the library will handle the details. The aim of
the project is to make it fast and cheap -- affordable by everyone, not just
those who have a spare $3000 lying around. Another aim is to make it forward
compatible with anything else C= release in the future, this will involve
updating libraries and should mean you will never need to replace the board itself
(unless C= decide to support 2Kx2K resolutions, but this does seem unlikely).

The reason for the posting is to get any ideas/suggestions/comments that you
guys have, in order to make the board something that everyone is pleased
with. Please send in email with your ideas/suggestions/comments and I will
post a summary at a later date.

Cheers,
-Trevor
From: faith@amiganet.chi.il.us (Fred Drummand)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Imagine Mailing List
Date: 30 Sep 92 06:13:04 GMT
Organization: Amiga Network Information Systems




How does one get on the Imagine Mailing list

Fred Drummand
Collumbia College
Graphic Arts Major
From: acs_mogged@rivers.acc.uwrf.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Morphing Software Challenge
Date: 2 Oct 92 20:03:24 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin - River Falls

	Hey,

	    After reading the Amiga World(yeah, I love that cover!!!).  I 
really would like some un-bias comparison between morphing software (GVP, ASDG,
Black Belt System, and any other programs I don't know about..)  I think the 
best way to compare these is for people to render pictures and upload them to
internet....

	To do this could somebody please try three or four different morphs on
different packages.  Take some images (from internet or digitize them yourself)
and upload the pictures plus a morph anim from the competing morphing packages 
(ImageMaster, Morph Plus, etc).  

	Some morphs that people should try.....   Person to another person, 
Person to an animal(That really looked good on the cover of amiga(I wonder if
you morph a human and a wolf could you get a cinematic were-wolf style effect 
hmmm...)), person to another object(like car).......   You get the idea.....

	As a challenge to these software package could these be rendered in
either 32 color low-res, Half-bright low-res, HAM color mode, or 16-color
high-res....  Plus make sure these are rendered in some sort of anim format..
Please use color in your pictures and use the full screen... This will show 
what the common Amiga can at least do...

	When you are finished with the rendering and upload it, PLEASE describe
what package, what effect you were trying to do, how long it took on what
what hardware, and what you did with that package to make this effect....

	I hope this isn't so hard and I hope at lease someone tries to create
1 or 2 morphs....  It would be fun to see some user created morphs.....

	Thanks in Advance
		Brian.s.mogged@uwrf.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: jandreas@cs.ulowell.edu (Jason Andreas)
Subject: Re: Toaster on A4000????
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 05:08:04 GMT

Rumor has it that Newtek plans to have an A4000 compatible toaster 
(READ: Completely redesigned) by next summer.  Maybe even including a 
certain LSI chipset.  

-- 
/* WORK: (508)934-3611  DORM:(508)934-5303  HOME:(508)476-2143 <--on sundays 
 * BAND:  Wicked Kat Soup and an unnamed Industrial Hardcore band.
 *                  Remember, just say "N O"
 */                                      2
From: Michel@mike.CAM.ORG (Michel Lauzon)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: BIG! Pictures
Date: 29 Sep 92 04:06:22 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Rainer V Mager (rvmst1@gl.pitt.edu) wrote:
: 	I'm looking for two things...1 I need a program that can print
: VERY large pictures (2800 X 2500 X 1), I would use AdPro, but it wont
: load it (out of memory), even though I can just barely display the whole
: thing (about 80k CHIP RAM free after viewing it (out of 1M chip)).  
: 	The second program I'm looking for is one that will print (large
: or small) color (more than 1 bitplane, up to 24) to a black and white
: printer.  I realize that I can expect GREQAT results, but something
: reasonable using patterns would be nice, BTW I have a Panasonic
: KXP-1124i printer.

I have seen a msg here in a local bbs about a prg called TruePrint24
by ASDG. I haven't see this prg running but i think (after having read 
some msg about TP24) it's can fit your need. I now that TP24 can load
a 400K jpeg file on a 2000 wint 3 meg (512k chip) and print them on
a 9 pin with a good result 

           __
          ///
     __  ///   Michel Lauzon
     \\\///    michel@mike.CAM.ORG
      \XX/     1:242/193.0
From: rvmst1@gl.pitt.edu (Rainer V Mager)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: BIG! Pictures
Date: 26 Sep 92 15:28:50 GMT

Hi,
	I'm looking for two things...1 I need a program that can print
VERY large pictures (2800 X 2500 X 1), I would use AdPro, but it wont
load it (out of memory), even though I can just barely display the whole
thing (about 80k CHIP RAM free after viewing it (out of 1M chip)).  
	The second program I'm looking for is one that will print (large
or small) color (more than 1 bitplane, up to 24) to a black and white
printer.  I realize that I can expect GREQAT results, but something
reasonable using patterns would be nice, BTW I have a Panasonic
KXP-1124i printer.

		Thanx,
				Rainer
From: ewilts@galaxy.gov.bc.ca (Ed Wilts)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: IFF -> PostScript Bitmap...
Date: 2 Oct 92 12:19:01 -0700
Reply-To: EWILTS@GALAXY.GOV.BC.CA
Distribution: world
Organization: BC Systems Corporation

In article <1ai0fhINN56r@bowen.rick.cs.ubc.ca>, c1a192@rick.cs.ubc.ca (Oliver Erik Seiler) writes:
> 
> Does anyone know of a graphics conversion program (with source) for converting
> an IFF picture file into a postscript file? The program must run on either
> a standard UNIX workstation running X windows, or on an Amiga.

There's an old program called CLAZ (Fish 87) that does this.  I even ran it on
a Vax for a while so the code is fairly portable.  I no longer have the source
online though.

-- 

Ed Wilts, BC Systems Corp., 4000 Seymour Place, Victoria, B.C., Canada, V8X 4S8
EWilts@Galaxy.Gov.BC.CA   |   Ed.Wilts@BCSystems.Gov.BC.CA   |   (604) 389-3430
From: spence@cbmvax.commodore.com (Spencer Shanson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: Is SuperHiRes Deinterlaced in AGA Lisa?
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:46:43 GMT
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <92262.143829K3027E6@ALIJKU11.BITNET> K3027E6@ALIJKU11.BITNET writes:
>I have several suggestions/questions to the bandwith/interlace problem:
>everybody says, that today it is impossible to deinterlace a 1280*400 screen,
>because of bandwith. That's right if you think about a 1280*400 screen in
>8 Bits (=256 Cols.). But, like the ECS, the AGA should also be programmable,
>so when we say, we can live with 4 Colors, there must be enough bandwith left,
>to double the lines from 200 to 400 but stay at the same vert. frequency of 60
>Hz! I think that's the way productivity was created:

The chips were not designed with that in mind. A 1280x400 60Hz non-laced screen
would require 17.5ns pixels, which is twice the speed of the 35ns pixels that AA
can handle.

From your suggestion, it should be possible to take the original chip set, and
make a 1280x200x2 mode, because that uses the same bandwidth as a 640x200x4
mode. The reason you can't do that is because 1280x200 at 60Hz requires 35ns
pixels, which the original chip set did not support.

Q.E.D.

>rk (Rainer Klier)
>rk@gup.uni-linz.ac.at


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spencer Shanson - Amiga Software Engineer     | email: spence@commodore.COM
                                              | or uunet!cbmvax!spence
All opinions expressed are my own, and do not | Bix: sshanson
(necessarily) represent those of Commodore.   | Weebles Wobble, but
                                              | they don't fall down.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: cshort@nmsu.edu (Spmg*d, Lord of Potted Meat Product)
Subject: imagine objects
Organization: Computing Research Lab
Distribution: comp
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 22:26:16 GMT


hi. for a video i'm doing as part of a performance art show, i need
anatomical objects in the imagine format. things of interest to me
include: heads, torsos, faces, limbs, organs. many thanks and i'll be
happy to give you credit.

c.
--

                                                                      |S
  |------------------------|                                          |P
  |don't fear the hippie   |-------------------------------           |L
  |he's got mind control-dm|    spamgod is: cshort@crl.nmsu.edu       |E     
  |------P|-----i was driving at the speed of light and turned on my  |E
         E|   headlights. the light piled up on my windshield like----|N ----|
         A|   wet toilet paper.            ----------------|Yak Cheese Abuser|
	 C|				                   |-----------------|
         E|
From: jmpor@dynam.adsp.sub.org (Jean-Marc Porchet)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: Which genlock to buy
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:48:19 GMT
Reply-To: cbmehq!cbmswi!dynam!jmpor@cbmvax.commodore.com
Organization: Merging Technologies (IV-24 designers)
X-Newsreader: Arn V1.00 beta rel2

In article <5338@balrog.ctron.com>, Randy Manchester writes:

> I'm getting ready to go out and purchase a genlock.  I've been told
> that there is a big difference between manufacturers as far as
> picture quality is concerned.  Can anyone recommend a good genlock?
> I'm looking for semi-professional quality output, but not necessarily
> broadcast quality.  What's the difference between a genlock that's
> RS-170A complient and one that isn't? 

well, take a look at the new genlock from GVP, it's called G-LOCK, is
price should be around $350.

Output quality is good for the price (I mean the quality is not broadcast, but
I think it's the best output you can get for a genlock under $1000-$1500)


It as the following caracteristics :

   
      2 CVS inputs
      1 Y/C input
      2 sound inputs
      1 CVS output
      1 Y/C Output
   
You can control all the features by software (the control panel as an arexx port),
for examples you can adjust the hue, saturation, brightness, color, switch
from one input to the other, etc... 

This board as been designed by Scott Hood, the designer of Amber in the A3000.

PS : I doesn't get any money from this product, it just happen that
I wrote the software that calibrate the boards in factory, so I had the
time to look at it.

--

PS : forgive my bad English, I'm still trying to learn it
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jean-Marc "JUMP" Porchet                             Phone : (41) 22-754-1733

EMAIL :   ...{uunet,rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmehq!cbmswi!dynam!jmpor
	       or try   mcsun!cbmswi!dynam!jmpor		 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
'Simple things should be simple & complex things should be possible' Alan Kay