HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M1911 operation
Date: 22 Dec 92 23:47:51 GMT


Peter Cash writes:
#In article <9212211415.aa16761@claudius.pica.army.mil> erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:
#
##As to the "made in Poland" comment, the Germans acquired the tooling for
##the VIS following the invasion, and liked the design so much that they
##produced over 300,000 of them, including some at Steyr, with the only
##changes being made for ease of production. Let me guess - they were stupid
##too, right?
#
#C'mon, Ed--everyone knows that the Germans lost WWII because they used the
#inferior 9mm Parabellum caliber in their pistols, instead of the awesome
#.45 ACP! Just ask Col. Cooper!
#
#Well, it really shouldn't be necessary, but... 8^)


Insult me to your heart's content - Lord knows everyone else does :)
Mock what I shoot: call my Glock "combat Tupperware", my AR-15 a "mouse
gun", and the 9mm a "minor caliber".

I might take affront a bit, and respond in kind, but I won't take it too
seriously in any event.

However, two posters who responded to my original posting felt the need
to include ethnic slurs based on the Polish origin of the VIS. One
even included a Polish joke having nothing to do with my posting. This
IMHO is going too far, and belies the alleged "kinder, gentler" nature
of this newsgroup.

My grandfather was in the Polish Army that these individuals felt the need
to deride. He used a silly ineffective Polish weapon, a 7.9mm Reczny Karabin
Maszynowy Wz 28. In the US this same weapon in .30 was called the BAR. He
lost part of his left hand to a Russian bullet, and spent the better part
of 6 years in POW camps, first Soviet and then German. If he was an officer
he would most likely have been murdered at Katyn with the other 15,000 by
the Soviets in 1940.

So please excuse me if I don't find Polish "humor" funny.



Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
Geordi: "...it's like the laws of physics went right out the
window." Q: "And why shouldn't they? They're so inconvenient."
Xref: sparky rec.guns:18804 talk.politics.guns:25804
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: NRA Instructor Program
Date: 31 Dec 92 01:26:09 GMT
Followup-To: rec.guns
Organization: The Cat Factory


nracop@cup.portal.com (Leroy Pyle) wrote:

#     The NRA is looking for experienced women pistol shooters to
#become Personal Protection Instructors...

#     The personal protection course consists of a basic pistol
#shooting course with information on firearms and the law, as well
#as how to respond to criminal attack. ...

Unless there's been a change of policy, the NRA requires that the lessons
on the law and response to an attack be taught by a current or retired
police officer, attorney or judge.  Instructors who aren't and never have
been one of those things must hire a qualified person to teach those parts
of the Personal Protection course.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                "If you can't stand solitude,
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483  perhaps others find you boring
Santa Monica, CA  90405                        as well."  -- Mark Twain
From: jdg00@ccc.amdahl.com (Josh Grosse)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Loading data accuracy?
Date: 31 Dec 92 01:25:47 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation


I've recently started handloading .40 S&W.  I have three sources of loading
data:

    Lyman 47th
    Accurate Arms Loading Guide
    Lee data that came with my die set.

The Lyman data consitantly presents lower starting and maximum loads than the
Accurate Arms No. 5 data: to the point where the maximum load in the Lyman book
is close to (or even below) the starting load in the Accurate Arms guide.

The Lee data sheet shows what appear to be starting loads only, and usually 
falls in between the two.  

Example:  170 gr:  Start    Max

Lyman               6.0     6.9
AA Guide            6.9     7.7
   
Lee has two numbers:  for "160-170" it shows 6.4, for "170-180" it shows 5.9. 

Now, I know that Lyman used a "Universal Receiver" and Accurate used an S&W
4006.  But *whose* numbers should I pay attention to?

(I've developed what I think is a good plinking load, which should be under
 both Lyman and AA maximums... 7.4 grains of AA#5 with a 155 Rainier.  Now,
I'd like to work up a Major load, but I don't know which guide to follow.)
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Josh Grosse                                jdg00@amail.amdahl.com
Amdahl Corp.                               313-358-4440
Southfield, Michigan
From: C96@vm.urz.Uni-Heidelberg.de (Alexander EICHENER)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 1000 YD. BR QUESTION
Date: 22 Dec 92 00:00:20 GMT
Organization: University of Heidelberg, Germany

In article <01GSIKU2C9HE005DRR@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU> on
20 Dec 92 15:33:28 GMT 2ftylunar write:

#Could someone tell me what is the best cal. for 1000 meter / 1000 yd benchrest
#shooting. Would the 300-winchester magnum or 300-Weatherby magnum be
#better, I'm leaning towards the 300-Weatherby mag. Which receiver would be the
#best for this condition my preference is the rem-700 but I heard it is not a
#very strong action.  What barrel twist and bullet weight would be the optimum.

Of course, there is always the venerable .50 BMG... However, I earnestly
wonder (or should I say: am annoyed) how few American shooters seem to know
the fine .338 Lapua Magnum that has been specially designed for long-range
precision work. Superior to both .300s you mentioned - and it's a *factory*
cartridge, too.

Greetings, Alexander Eichener <c96@vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
From: kohn@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (Philip Kohn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Accurate semi-auto rifles (AR15?)
Date: 30 Dec 92 16:07:04 GMT
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.

It seems like people are hinting that the AR15 is not the best
choice for a very accurate semi-auto rifle in the $400-$900 price range.
What other rifles are worth considering?

If the AR15 is the right choice, then which one?
I know of Quality Parts (liked their propaganda - I mean catalog),
Olympic Arms, and Colt. I have heard there are many others.

Also, if I want to import a rifle (say from Quality Parts in Maine)
into California, can I do this through my local gun shop, or what
is the best procedure?

Thanks in advance!
Phil Kohn
From: jaf@a2.cim.cdc.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: HK-91 prices
Date: 22 Dec 92 00:00:36 GMT


Could anyone give me an idea if the following is a reasonable
price for an HK-91:
 	Good overall condition(but not great)
	Includes sling, bayonett, bipod, and one 20rnd mag.

	They are asking $1000

The price doesn't seem great but doesn't seem out of line, either.
Also, is there anything in particular to look for on this gun
for problem areas?  And finally, I think that there are two models
of this gun(A2 and A3?).  I neglected to look for a model indication
when I saw the gun.  What are the differences and is one more
desirable than the other?

Thanks a lot for any info that you can give me.

Jim Foster
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: inside turning brass
Date: 22 Dec 92 00:00:18 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

I was reading the "Best of Precision Shooting", and came across
some references to case preperation I'd like some more information
on.

I've got this barrel in a wild cat 6mm-284. My problem is that the
neck thickness variation is 0.008-0.012. Precision shooting claims
that thickness variation only gets worse as one gets closer to the
case head. I've thought of necking the brass up to basic size (ie
making it a straight cylinder) and then forcing it into a
die, and then inside turning it to a consistant diameter all the way
to the head. Does anyone do anything like this to match brass?
The implication in some of the articles/letters in the Best of...
was that something like what I describe above is done.

Do you know of anyone who would offer this as a commercial service,
for 284 brass?

-c
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu
From: emory!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hi-Power mag safety
Date: 31 Dec 92 16:36:19 GMT
Organization: Destructive Testing Systems

In article <1992Dec28.194001.17240@igor.tamri.com> donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) writes:
#In article <9212240001.AA09254@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca> keith@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca
#(Keith de Solla) writes:
##I have a new Hi-Power that I intend to use for IPSC and I was 
##thinking about disconnecting the annoying magazine safety. 
#
#Everything I've ever read about guns has advised against disconnecting
#ANY safety mechanism.  If you disconnect it and some damage is done by
#the gun afterwards, your liability may be substantially increased.

Everything I've ever read about *lawyers* agrees with the above. Everything
I've read about *guns* says get rid of the junky magazine disconnect and
the trigger pull will improve dramatically and the gun will be useful in
a combat situation while changing mags. It won't be any more dangerous
than any gun *without* a magazine disconnect, IE most of them.

Gary
-- 
Gary Coffman KE4ZV          |    You make it,     | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary
Destructive Testing Systems |    we break it.     | uunet!rsiatl!ke4zv!gary
534 Shannon Way             |    Guaranteed!      | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary      
Lawrenceville, GA 30244     |                     | emory!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu
From: cmchui@pollux.usc.edu (Chung Man Chui)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Please help with identity of gun
Date: 24 Dec 92 18:40:01 GMT
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA


  Hi to all, a question have baffled me for some time now and I'm hoping that you guys
could shed some light into this. The gun that Mel Gibson used in the first Lethal
Weapon was a Beretta but the chase seen at Hollywood showed him using a sub-rifle of
some sort. I've seen the same gun used in Die Hard. My first guess was that it was an
HK SP-89 but the one they used seemed larger than the HK I've seen. Any info would
be appreciated. Happy Holidays.


								chung
From: bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Norinco M14/Mini14/SKS
Date: 30 Dec 92 16:07:43 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <1992Dec24.152455.21328@MorningStar.Com> chris@MorningStar.Com (Chris Miller) writes:
#
#A brief comment WRT the Mini-14 accuracy:
#After taking apart the action and buffing all the parts to a mirror
#finish, as well as reducing the trigger pull by 50%, My groups at
#50 yards went from 3-4" to 1".  This is probably simply due to 
#fixing the '14's AWFUL, and I mean AWFUL, trigger break, and not
#due to any improvement in the guns inherent accuracy.  Still not
#spectacular accuracy, but OK for what I for what I do with it.
#

Their *is* something with a trigger which is worse than the
Mini-14, in my experience, .......it's called the Mini-30 :-).

Seriously though, I owned an *early* Mini-14 back when they first
came out (pre raunch rifle), and my memory is that the trigger and accuracy 
were significantly (read: "orders of magnitude") better than the later 
production Mini-30 I used to own. The Mini-30 had the worst trigger 
pull, bar none, of any rifle (centerfire or rimfire) which I have ever 
fired.  It is possible the Mini-30 I got was a dog I guess. What did 
Ruger *do* to screw up this rifle (cost cutting production measures?) so
badly?
-- 
==========================================================================
              Disclaimer: These are my views, not the U's

        "If it's in the paper it must be true!" --- D. Doright
From:  (MJ)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Question to R. Boudrie
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:52:03 GMT


Weren't you a NY resident and belong to FLPPC?  I've got two questions.
1)  I've read that with my NYS Carry permit MA will give me some sort of
pistol permit.  Is this true?  What kind of permit is it?  And where do I
apply?
2)  Were/Are you able to maintain/keep your NYS permit after you moved?

MJ

[As if you didn't already know, my opinions are my own and not my
company's.]
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: New For 93
Date: 3 Jan 93 03:38:22 GMT

Two items of interest for the new year...

SKS - what's that you say?  Nothing new?  Well, now you can get the
original, made in the USSR in the fiftes and sixties.  Complete with
web sling, cleaning kit and blade bayonet.  No price given.  Brought
to you by Big Bear Arms & Sporting Goods - 214-871-7061.

Bersa Thunder9 - a 9mm DA pistol from Bersa.  A quote from the ad...
"The only 9mm D.A. that offers every built-in custom deluxe feature
that shooters demand for top performance.  At absolutely no extra
cost."  Nice looking gun, I might add....from Eagle Imports.

Time to start pinching pennies again....8-)

Rob
From: emory!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock numbering.
Date: 2 Jan 93 14:17:52 GMT
Organization: Destructive Testing Systems

In article <1259@blue.cis.pitt.edu> dcwst8+@pitt.edu (David C Winters) writes:
#
#     The first Glock to hit the market was the 17 - were numbers 1
#through 16 prototype models?
#
#     Also, Glock has the 17, 19, 20, 21, 22, and 23 on the market; why
#is there never any mention of the "Glock 18?"  Does such an animal even
#exist?

The 17 refers to magazine capacity, a marketing ploy. A Glock 1 under
the same system would be a single shot. The following numbers don't
refer to magazine capacity. In true marketeering fashion, later models
have to have higher numbers whatever their capacity. 

The 18 is a full auto pistol, not available here.

Gary
-- 
Gary Coffman KE4ZV          |    You make it,     | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary
Destructive Testing Systems |    we break it.     | uunet!rsiatl!ke4zv!gary
534 Shannon Way             |    Guaranteed!      | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary      
Lawrenceville, GA 30244     |                     | emory!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu
From: mje@pookie.pass.wayne.edu (Michael J. Edelman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: light .44 Magnum loads?
Date: 24 Dec 92 18:40:18 GMT
Organization: Wayne State University

With regards to the "detonation in reduced loads" story: There's a belief among
some who have tried to duplicatethis phnomenon that the problem is one of double
charges dropped in cases. Because of this I have shied away from loads that occupy
only a small fraction of a case. 

When I shot a .44 magnum, I made my low-power loads with .44spl cases and Unique.
I don't recall the load, but I got it right out of the Lyman manual. 

               --mike
From: feustel@netcom.com (David Feustel)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: NRA-ILA bbs
Date: 24 Dec 92 18:40:09 GMT
Organization: DAFCO: OS/2 Software Support & Consulting

ajberg@Athena.MIT.EDU writes:

#I recently say an ad in American Rifleman for NRA-ILA bbs.  I am contemplating
#signing up--its only $15--but I noticed that the phone number is long distance
#for me and most of the rest of the country.  Has anyone used this service and
#might want to comment on what it offers/how good it is?

#What I really want to know is can it be reached through any network?  The
#$15 fee seems like a good way to contribute to NRA-ILA.  Long distance
#phone bills don't give me the same warm feeling inside.

#For those who haven't seen the ad, its called "Gun Talk"and is set up for the exclusive use of NRA members.  You can apparently
#join by dialing in, 703-719-6406 and signing up on-line, or by calling
#1-800-gun-talk.

Subscribing to ATT ReachOutAmerica results in a $6.60/hr charge for LD
calls after 10PM and all day weekends and Holidays. This is not too
stiff for the occasional call to Guntalk to find out what's going on.
-- 
Dave Feustel N9MYI <feustel@netcom.com>
 
The Columbia River is now the most radioactive river in the U.S.

This environmental/nuclear nightmare, one of a series, brought to you
courtesy of Westinghouse and General ("We Bring Good Things to Life")
Electric.
From: rhoten@a.cs.okstate.edu (rhoten r p)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Loading data accuracy?
Date: 1 Jan 93 23:57:16 GMT
Organization: Oklahoma State University, Computer Science, Stillwater

In article <54aB02Bt30GI01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> jdg00@ccc.amdahl.com (Josh Grosse) writes:
#
#
#Yes, I did mean ISPC Major.  I'd like a chronograph, but the ranges where
#I currently shoot all have florescent lights -- I understand that a chrono-
#graph may not function.
# . . .
#-----------------------------------------------------------------
Fluorescent lights do give my Oehler chronograph fits.  I 
found a fix, however.  There is an incandescent light bulb
that is about 1 inch in diameter and 12 inches long, made
I think for use in display cabinets.  I mounted mine
directly above the orange diffuser, although I have seen
one in an archery store (for customers to test equipment)
that had the bulbs mounted below the diffuser.  It takes
a little tinkering to kludge up a bracket to hold the lamp
base, but it wasn't too hard.  It ended up looking like:

             -----------------===___
  Bulb ->    -----------------===   |  <-  Bracket
           _____________________ ___|
           \ Bulb can go here  /
            \                 /
             \               /
              \             /
               \           /
                \         /
                 \       /
                  \     /
                   \   /
                    \ /
Of course,  you are going to have to have access to
a 120 volt receptacle.
r. p. rhoten
From: towle@vssteg.enet.dec.com (Clark Towle Gunsmith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm cheapo car backup
Date: 29 Dec 92 19:02:12 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1hnneaINNf8g@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, bz269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James D. Del Vecchio) writes...
# 
#In a previous article, emory!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) says:

 For an 'El-cheapo knockaround 9mm for a car, truck, boat, etc. backup stash
gun try one of the Norinco Tokarev imports in 9mm. They go less than $130.00 
dealer.

 They work good, are accurate enough for most social encounters where it might 
be required and they are cheap to buy.
From: se08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Adam Eliot)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Fwd: WARNING: Hydrogen peroxide and vinegar
Date: 30 Dec 92 16:07:34 GMT

As the hydrogen peroxide method was posted to rec.guns, I thought the
following (gleaned from rec.hunting) might be of interest:


---------- Forwarded message begins here ----------

 From: hunter@s07.es.llnl.gov (Steve Hunter 423-2219)
 Newsgroups: rec.hunting
 Subject: WARNING: Hydrogen peroxide and vinegar
 Date: 29 Dec 92 15:30:57 GMT
 
 	My dad asked me to use my Outer's Foul Out to electronically
 clean out his .45 auto barrel. For some reason, the unit found the gun
 to be clean after a very short time, but there was still visible lead
 in the barrel, so I tried the hydrogen peroxide and vinegar technique
 that was mentioned recently.
 	After a short while there were bubbles coming up and the
 liquid was discoloring. At bedtime it was still bubbling vigorously,
 so I left the solution in over night. In the morning, the bubbling had
 stopped and the solution was quite brown. There was also a ring of
 rust at the top of the liquid. Pouring out the liquid revealed that
 all of the lead streaking was gone, the entire area that was covered
 by liquid had a frosted appearance, and there were several small but
 deep pits in the chamber.
 	No amount of cleaning, oiling, or even polishing could bring a
 shine back to the barrel or chamber. It appears certain that the
 barrel has been etched and the chamber has been destroyed.
 	The solution was a measured 50-50 mix of new 3% H2O2 and white
 vinegar.
 	Does anyone know of a good place to buy a new .45 auto barrel?
 It is the untapered type. I hope that I don't have to buy a full match
 barrel, but my dad does use it in local competition, so a junk surplus
 is out.
 
  __       __       __    __   __
 /_/|     /_/|     /_/\  /_/| /_/|     Steven Hunter
 | ||     | ||     |  \\ | || | ||     Seismic Observatory
 | ||___  | ||___  |   \\| || | ||___  Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
 | |/__/| | |/__/| | |\ \| || | |/__/| (510)423-2219
  \____|/  \____|/ |_| \___|/  \____|/ StevenHunter@llnl.gov
 
 
 __________________________________________________________________________
 "Why am I dangerous?...
                     ...because I'm right!"     -Rush Limbaugh
 
 Seth Eliot                    Dept of Material Science and Engineering
                               Carnegie Mellon Univerity,   Pittsburgh, PA
 ARPA    :eliot+@cmu.edu       |------------------------------------------
    or    se08+@andrew.cmu.edu |
 Bitnet:  se08%andrew@cmccvb   |      
 ------------------------------|
From: toddc@spot.tv.tek.com (Todd Carlson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hi-Power mag safety
Date: 29 Dec 92 19:02:40 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc.  Beaverton, Oregon

In article <1992Dec28.194001.17240@igor.tamri.com> donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) writes:
#In article <9212240001.AA09254@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca> keith@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca
#(Keith de Solla) writes:
##I have a new Hi-Power that I intend to use for IPSC and I was 
##thinking about disconnecting the annoying magazine safety. 
##- how difficult is this to do? 
##- does it require a gunsmith? 
##- will it make the mags drop out easier?
##- is there any reason I should not do this?  (This is not a carry or
##  self-defence gun;  can't do that in the Great White North)
#
#Everything I've ever read about guns has advised against disconnecting
#ANY safety mechanism.  If you disconnect it and some damage is done by
#the gun afterwards, your liability may be substantially increased.
#
#   don

When I bought my Hi-Power, the gunsmith in the shop I purchased it from
said that if I ever want to shoot IPSC I should have this procedure 
done.  He described a metal strip inside the grip that prevents the
magazine from dropping freely, and also prevents the hammer from dropping
when the magazine has been removed.  The primary safety is unaffected.

Seems like I read from previous postings where part of the procedure in
IPSC is to drop the magazine, and drop the hammer by pulling the
trigger.  If you are using a Hi-Power, you wouldn't be able to do this.

However, I agree with you that removing a safety device is not recommended.
I have only had mine a couple of months, and being primarily a DA revolver
person, with the SA Hi-Power I am still a little gun shy. 8-)
                                                 ^^^ ^^^
If I ever decide to shoot IPSC, I might even consider changing to
something that does not require this procedure.

                               Later,
                                        Todd

p.s. Can anyone tell me who to write to get more info about IPSC??


*********************************************************************
Todd Carlson                      |  Nike vs. Anti-Drug Campaign:
toddc@tv.TV.TEK.COM               | 
Computer Resources Coordinator    |  "Just Say No"  or  "Just Do It!"
TV Division, Tektronix Inc.       | 
Beaverton, Oregon   U.S.A.        |  I, for one, am a little confused.
**********************************************************************