HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gw18@prism.gatech.EDU (Greg Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Isuzu to stop selling in the US?
Date: 4 Jan 93 20:57:35 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


While visiting home over the holidays, the dealership where my father works
got a memo from GM stating that after '93, Isuzu will stop selling cars in
American.  This means that after this model year, there will be no more Geo
Storm.  It will supposedly be replaced by something else in '96, but it will
be a different car.  However, I have heard nothing in the news anywhere that
mentions this.  (I also heard nothing about a non-disclosure, so I decided to
post.)  I never saw the actual memo, so I don't know for sure exactly what it
said.  Anyone else know anything about this?

-- 
Greg Williams
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gw18
Internet: gw18@prism.gatech.edu
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: pop-up lights
Date: 7 Jan 93 02:38:15 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation

In article <1993Jan6.180803.10601@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com> sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund) writes:
>>>Which was the first production car with pop-up headlights?		  
>>
>
>I believe corvettes had the swing around rather than pop-up - I think it
>was datzun z's 
>
   The Lambo Miura had pop-ups, complete with eyelashes, in 1965-66,
   long before the Z came out.                    
>>
>>	advantages: looks cool, attracts members of the opposite sex
>
>   WRONG  ......
>
    Hey, maybe he meant GUYS like 'em.
From: ah190@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stuart Pearl)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Protective Coating for Auto Transport?
Date: 8 Jan 1993 17:47:27 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


Recently during rapidly deteriorating negotiations on a new Sable,
the sales manager (the CLOSER himself) said one of the reasons he
had to charge me $250 for dealer prep was to clean off the special
coating on the new car.

"What is that?" I inquired, blood pressure rising further.

"When they ship the car from the factory, they put a special coating
(spray?) on the paint to protect it from the road dirt, weather and
salt.  My prep guy has to take that off with a solvent and I'm sure
you wouldn't want to do that, and that's all part of dealer prep."

This took me by surprise - I had never heard of such a thing.  I thought
they just ran the damn vehicle through their car wash when it arrived.
Is this truth or more sales science fiction?

He also said that it took time to assemble the standard roof rack on
the station wagon - true, but then, isn't that one of the costs that
contributes to the higher base price of the wagon?  Why should that
be figured into part of the dealer prep additional charge?

-stu
-- 
                   ---===<<< Stuart Pearl >>>===---
                           Cleveland, Ohio
                      ah190@cleveland.freenet.edu
                         --------------------
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Mini-van or utility vehicle...4WD vs gas mileage
Date: 4 Jan 93 20:36:17 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

viviana@igor.tamri.com (Vivian Aldridge) writes:
> 
> My other big concern is gas mileage. 15-18 miles per
> gallon is not a spec I can live with. Are there any [SUVs
> or minivans] that at least make 25 miles per gallon?

No.  The Chrysler minivan with manual transmission and 2.5L four
makes 22/30 EPA, but doesn't have 4WD.  The usefulness of 4WD on
a Chrysler minivan is marginal anyway, because of poor clearance
below the rear axle-- though AWD is available.  The Toyota minivan
with AWD musters only 17/21, about the same as the AWD Chrysler.
The Ford minivan would probably be worse.

The "best" SUV fuel economy might be the Jeep Cherokee at 17/21 or
the Grand Cherokee at 16/20.  Even with manual transmission the
Ford Explorer is no better than 17/21, as I remember.  (Somebody
correct me if I'm wrong.)  Imported SUVs are even worse.

You might consider a station wagon instead.  The Subaru Legacy AWD
gets 21/27 EPA, and the Toyota Celica All-trac gets 19/24.  Measure
the cargo area; you'll find that station wagons often have as much
floor space as SUVs, without the height.  For example, the Legacy
has more usable floorspace than the Grand Cherokee, and the Taurus
wagon has more floorspace than the Explorer.
From: tonya@hpldsla.sid.hp.com (Tony Arnerich)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 02:33:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Braking techniques
Organization: HP Scientific Instruments Division - Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.autos

bsmg9810@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Bhaskar S.Manda) writes:

> Been getting a decent amount of freezing rain here lately,
> and the roads are pretty slick most of the time. I had
> occasion :) to come to a few hot stops, and downshifted always
> to get braking help. In fact, I did a  5 -> 2 once and was 
> quite surprised at how much deceleration resulted.

You were *surprised*? You were lucky that that particular patch
of ground wasn't slippery.

>                                                    Hence the
> following questions inviting your opinions.
> 1. Since engine braking has nothing to do with the tire/road
   > contact,

It can *only* work through the tires.

   >          it should not cause skidding or loss of control.
   > True ? Counterexamples ?

ABS exercises control by temporarily reducing brake fluid pressure at the 
wheel. The engine braking can't possibly respond to the ABS system, it just
keeps on dragging at the wheel no matter what. Therefore, engine braking pretty
obviously can fight the ABS system, possibly defeating it on the drive wheels.

Also consider that brake systems work on all the wheels, but engine braking can
only work on the drive wheels. Therefore, engine braking + normal brakes will
put too much braking force at the drive wheels, in a relative sense, and can
cause the drive wheels to lock up prematurely. Again, loss of control, irres-
pective of the presence of ABS.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw)
Subject: Re: Why is US engine technology so retrograde?
Organization: Motorola Western MCU Design Center, Chandler Arizona
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:13:33 GMT

In article <184859@pyramid.pyramid.com>, lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
|> In article <96151@rphroy.ph.gmr.com> rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com writes:
|> >	Cadillac Northstar engine
|> 
|>                  290-295 depending on who you believe.  About like
|> 		 the old Z-28 302 had "only" 290 hp.   
|> 		 Screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeech!
|> 
|> 		 Damfino why they don't stick that thing in the
|> 		 buick or better yet Camaro/Firebird.  
|> 
|> 		 Or the Saturn... >:-)

I suppose you are talking about a '60s Z-28, in which case the 290 hp
was gross and not the 290 hp NET from the Northstar engine.  The older
measurement method was way off from reality.  When Detroit changed over
in 1971 to net hp ratings they all dropper by 30-50% depending on the
engine.  GM was the only one with enough guts to give both before and
after ratings in the trade press.   

Sometimes I think Detroit purposefully made the change when they were
starting to deal with the emissions issue so they could sort of let the
public draw the conclusion that all that smog control stuff was sapping
off the power.  

I suspect an old 302 Z-28 had only about 180 hp net.
I can check my old data sheets tonight, if anyone is interested.

Mark
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: phr@telebit.com (Paul Rubin)
Subject: Re: Question on Nissan Sentra : Engine Oil
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 01:31:30 GMT

	    I recently bought a '87 Nissan Sentra. I changed the oil about
    1500 miles back, but it already has a black color. 

Oil gets carbon and dirt in it with use.  I've never run a car for
1500 miles after and oil change and not had the oil be pretty dark
by then.  I usually change it at about 3000.
From: Bob_Hearn@qm.claris.com (Robert Hearn)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Lotus Elan...why did it fail?
Date: 12 Jan 93 21:10:39 GMT
Followup-To: rec.autos
Organization: Spartacus Software

In article <4224@eastman.UUCP> golder@titan.ppd.kodak.com (Patrick Golder)
writes:
>In article <1992Dec26.045016.13570@nuscc.nus.sg>, matmcinn@nuscc.nus.sg (Brett McInnes) writes:
>|> 
>|> Now that you have had some time to think about it...why?
>
>I'd guess that the biggest reason was price.  $40K was just too much
>money for what you got, considering the competition.  IMHO, they made
>a big mistake making the car front-wheel-drive too.  Then there's the
>lesser but significant factors of not having much of a dealer network,
>not knowing how to market the car or who their market even was, not 
>advertising it much, etc.

Speaking as an ex-prospective buyer, one big problem was that it was
intended to be positioned to grab a much larger market than the exotic
Esprit, but it was marketed through the same exotic dealer network.
The Lotus dealer in Portland is also the Ferrari dealer.  He wouldn't
let me test drive the Elan without signing all the papers first.  The
Mazda dealer would let me test drive the RX7, so that decided it.

Bob Hearn
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: Tom Wetzel <twetzel@ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Emblems, names and meanings...
Organization: Indiana University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:03:18 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.034851.22228@walter.bellcore.com> Ramiro Reinoso,
ramiro@rrunner.NoSubdomain.NoDomain writes:
>|> Anybody want to add more to the list?

Some obvious ones are:

  Chevrolet - The Heartbeat of America!
  Corvette  - America's Sportscar
  Cadillac  - The standard of the World
  Ford      - Where Quality is Job 1
From: dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: LH: Should I or Shouldn't I?
Date: 7 Jan 93 13:48:56 GMT
Reply-To: dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: clesun.central.sun.com

In article 7740239@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM, tmw@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Tom Walley) writes:
>I'm not an owner, but Click and Clack the Tappet brothers that have the PBS
>show 'Car Talk' give this car high praise.
>
>Tom Walley



I'm sure they're praising the design engineering.  But how well will the real
engineering and manufacturing stand up down the road?  How many bugs will this
model have for its first model year, and for the first few?  Once the sale is
made, how good has Chrysler's reputation been in servicing and repairing its
cars (answer: (^(&^(*&%&).

Even the succesful Taurus had its share of problems the first few model years.
What is Chrysler's recent experience in introducing new models?  (The minivans
were built on already-available K-car chassis, right?  Most of Chrysler's fleet
is).  The only other recent model that comes to mind is the Grand Cherokee, but
I probably missed something.

The question I'd ask myself is, why should I invest 17-20K in something Chrysler
only claims is good, when there are so many other models in the same category
that are already established?  Guess my recommendation would be, wait a few years.

	Dave
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: easton@zds-oem.zds.com (Jeff Easton)
Subject: Re: rocks from overpass (was Re: Acura Integra Bodywork. Costs)
Organization: Zenith Data Systems, OEM Systems Engineering
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1993 21:47:32 GMT

In article <JWG.93Jan8102010@sedv1.acd4.acd.com> jwg@acd4.acd.com (jim grey) writes:
>In article <2443@shaman.wv.tek.com> andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM (Andrew Klossner) writes:
>
>	   "some little kid who had nothing better to do and dropped a 10
>	   pound rock or something off an overpass and hit my hood as I
>	   was on the freeway. the rock hit my hood, dented it, scratched
>	   off a lot of paint then hit my fender."
>
>   We had a rash of such incidents here in the Portland Oregon area.  If
>   your rock had dropped a split second later, it might have gone through
>   your windshield.  We've had people sent to the hospital with destroyed
>   faces.
>
>     -=- Andrew Klossner  (andrew@frip.wv.tek.com)
>			  (uunet!tektronix!frip.WV.TEK!andrew)
>
>About twenty minutes east of here (Terre Haute) on I-70, last year a
>woman bled to death when a (large) rock thrown from an overpass went through
>her windshield and cut through her neck.  The police are still looking for
>the responsible party.  This is serious stuff.

  She was my cousin.  Yes, she died, leaving behind two children.  As
far as I know you are correct in that they still have not found the group
that did it.  Reports were that several near misses had occured previously
from this same overpass, it was a known trouble spot (at least to the
police).

>jim grey
>jwg@acd4.acd.com

-- 
  ___  ___    Jeff Easton             easton@zds-oem.zds.com
 (__  (__     Zenith Data Systems     j.easton@mi04.zds.com
 ___) ___)    Saint Joseph, Mich.     easton@andrews.edu
Monte Carlo   Z-LS/20 - Choice of a quiet generation

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: "Gary Hopkins" <wk00624@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Anti-Lock Brakes makes stopping SAFER?
Organization: Gary Hopkins Typesetting
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 01:31:59 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)

>In article <16218@auspex-gw.auspex.com> tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett) writes:
>>Anyone know how the handbrake is actuated on a four wheel disk brake 
>>system?  Is it the same as with drum brakes?
>>
>There is basically no difference in the parking activation of a car with a
>disk/drum setup and one with 4 disks.  There is a cable that runs from the
>parking brake handle to the rear wheels, except for SAABs which use the 
>front brakes as a parking brake, which pulls a lever on the caliper which 
>sets the brakes.

Or Volvos, which have 4-wheel discs PLUS 2 drums inboard exclusively for 
the parking brake.
From: jice@echo.asd.sgi.com (John Eisenman)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Tires of the Integra
Date: 7 Jan 1993 00:40:25 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: echo.asd.sgi.com

The time has come for me to replace my tires on my '88 Integra.
I have been following the recommendations in the group and elsewhere
and have some idea as to which tires to purchase.  However, as I am
still a novice care owner (I never purchased tires before), I still
have a few questions.

The tires that came with the car are:

	Yokohama AX-323   195/60R14 85H

In this group, I usually see the size listed as HR14.  What does the
H mean?  High performance?  Also, what does the 85H mean?

I gather that tire must have been somewhere near bottom of the line.
Is that true?  It had a treadwear rating of 160.  It has lasted me for
less than 40,000 miles.  Does that seem right, or is there something
wrong with my driving?  I understand that these tires sell for about $50.

My mechanic sells the Michelin MXV2 and MXV3 as well as the XGT H4 for
$103 and the XGTV for $115.  However, I see that nobody on the net likes
the MXV's.

I am considering the following tires:

	Yokahama A509
	Yokohama AVS A+4
	Dunlop D40M2
	Michelin XGT H4
	Goodyear Eagle GT+4

Which of these would be the best combination of performance and
treadwear?  Would they all be ok in rain and snow (for trips to Tahoe, etc)?
What about price?

Can anybody suggest where to look in the San Francisco Bay Area?

Thanks,
John

--
John Eisenman (jice@sgi.com)

Silicon Graphics Computer Systems
7U-550
2011 N. Shoreline Blvd.		
P.O. Box 7311		
Mt. View, CA 94039-7311		

(415) 390-1551
From: tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu (Terry Quinn)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Before Buying Japanese.
Date: 12 Jan 1993 22:49:41 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Reply-To: tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu



In the July-August 1992 Harvard Business Review, there is an 
article by Robert L. Cutts entitled "Capitalism in Japan:  Cartels 
and Keiretsu."
 
This article describes the nature of the Japanese governmental and 
business cartels, their pervasiveness throughout Japanese society, 
the legal system that permits and supports them, and how they have 
been applied to achieve competitive advantage in markets.  It also 
talks about some of the problems of the cartels, not the least of 
which the fact that they cause exhorbitant costs to Japanese 
consumers.
 
The article is fairly consistent with the discussion of this 
subject in the JAPANYES article.  Some people have criticized that 
article as being simple Japan bashing and intimated that it was 
inaccurate.  At least with regard to the keirutsu, it appears to 
be accurate.

--
                                    Terry Quinn
                                     Germantown Hills, IL
                                      tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu
from Compuserve . . .                  >INTERNET: tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Re: What is the resonable oil comsumption?
Date: 7 Jan 93 20:21:52 GMT
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems

In <1993Jan5.150953.6944@osf.org> kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup) writes:

>In article <1992Dec30.194333.24745@osf.org> I asked:

>>I've got a turbocharged Ford 2.3L I4 that seems to use a lot of oil, I
>>haven't measured it, but I'd figure about a qt. every Kmi or so. I've
>>always attributed this to my habit of slowing with the transmission
>>(== high rpm downshifts,  which == lotsa vacuum, which == oil sucked down
>>the valve guides).

>> Anyone else with this experience?

>In article <1993Jan5.021818.11839@tandem.com>
>norcott_bill@tandem.com (Bill Norcott) writes:

>>The car (1987 Topaz with 84,000 miles) uses less than 1/2 quart between
>>oil changes. We have put around 9500 miles on it in a year.  The car is just
>>driven locally by my wife who does not go fast.

>Yeah, but I asked if anyone had *my* experience with the engine....I'm sure
>my engine would use no oil at all if my Grandmother drove it.

>I don't buy the 45/65 consumption thing, either. Gearing means a lot, esp.
>with a manual transmission car. There's only about 1k rpm difference in my
>car between the two speeds in 5.

>	-Kenny

A lot depends on the speed you drive AND hard acceleration/decelleration.
I have always driven fast but my '89 Probe does not require oil between
changes (every 5k miles/ Mobil 1 10w30). My old '81 Buick Century was
still giving 800m/qt at 140,000 miles in a 3.3L V6, which I didn't
feel was too shabby. And driving that sucker hard was a challenge!

Bob.
From: jimd@pequod.gvg.tek.com (Jim Delwiche)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Saturn Do It Yourself Mtce.
Date: 9 Jan 93 01:08:31 GMT
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <1ihc7rINNim1@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ah190@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stuart Pearl) writes:
>
>Here's one for you Saturn folks.... how easy is it to perform do-it-
>yourself stuff maintenance on the vehicle.  I'm interested in things
>like oil and filter changes, belts, hoses, tune-ups (plugs) etc.
>

The oil filter is hard to reach.  It's on the rear of the block,
facing backwards.  You basically have to crawl under the car, which is
hard to do unless you happen to be 4 inches thick or less.  I put my
car on ramps to do it, (or actually just a couple of 2x6's lying on
the ground).  Once you get to it, everything is easy, and there's a
little drip channel to try to make the job less messy.

The designers obviously drew the line at the oil filter for user
service.  Some members of the mailing list have talked about an
'access panel' in the right wheel well, but it looks more to me like a
splash cover which isn't meant to be taken off for routing oil
changes.

Everything else is accessable, and seems to be easy to work on.  I
haven't had a need to mess with hoses or belts, so I can't really
comment on them.

Jim
From: dloyer@zacson4.EBay.Sun.COM (Dennis Loyer)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Suction cup slide hammer ?
Date: 8 Jan 1993 20:36:11 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dloyer@zacson4.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: zacson4.ebay.sun.com

Try  "The Eastwood Company" (1-800-345-1178) The catalog is free, they offer a set of
3 suctions cups (2-1/8",3-1/4",4-1/4") all for $13.95 plus tax,shipping and handling.
These are not slide hammer operated, but are pulled by hand, though, you might find
some way to attach a slide hammer, my thought is that since door skin metal is usually
pretty thin you probably won't need a hammer.

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: barry@geovision.gvc.com (Barry Comer)
Subject: Brakes on Mazda Protege
Organization: Not officially GeoVision Systems Inc., Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 19:26:17 GMT


Folks:

	A person here at work has a 1991 Mazda Protege and she has 
	heard that Mazda has had a lot of trouble with the brakes
	on these cars.  Can anyone offer any information concerning
	this problem or offer any experiences they may of had trying to
	get them fixed?

	Here is a bit of the history:
	-	At 20,000 km both front and back pads/shoes were replaced 
		and machining done.

	-	At 40,000 the local dealer says that the front pads have ~30%
		material left on them and the rear have ~70% left.

	-	She does not drive with two feet which would cause the wear.


Cheers
Barry


-- 

===========================================================================
	I would write a signiture file but I don't have the time.  Then again
	I guess I just did, go figure.  Funnier things have happened.....
From: aland@informix.com (Colonel Panic)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Saturn mailing list (was Re: (LONG)Re: Saturn SL2: the REAL test drive)
Date: 5 Jan 93 20:40:26 GMT
Organization: Helen Keller Bondurant's Performance Driving School for the Blind

In article <1993Jan5.153709.9157@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com> basar@compaq.com (George Basar) writes:
>...
>P.S.- I heard their was a Saturn-owners mailing list.  Any one have any info?

Admin address (subscribe/unsubscribe requests): saturn-request@oar.net
                           Mailing list access: saturn@oar.net


--
Alan Denney       aland@informix.com        {pyramid|uunet}!infmx!aland

"Feel free to hit 15-pound jackrabbits with your Saturn."  - Charles Guest
From: dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Before Buying Japanese.
Date: 6 Jan 1993 12:39:28 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: clesun.central.sun.com

Alan Denney writes:

>If you don't like the Saturns, fine, but many drivers who appear to have done 
>far more exhaustive comparisons than you prefer the Saturns.  If rumors 
>about the 1994 models are true, I'll end up owning one myself in a year or
>two.  Meanwhile, I'm glad my mom got out of her deathtrap Accord into an SL1,
>so I don't have to work on the damn Accord every few months anymore.

I hadn't heard... what are the rumors about the 94 models?

	Dave

Newsgroups: rec.autos