From: chuakh@leland.Stanford.EDU (Khenghwa Chua)
Subject: Re: China/Chua, KhengHwa/Re: An open letter to Emperor Akihito of Japan
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 22:59:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.211923.10986@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.184250.24390@leland.Stanford.EDU>
>chuakh@leland.Stanford.EDU (Khenghwa Chua) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug19.233849.19256@leland.Stanford.EDU>
>>underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>...
>>>Now, with regard to the military threat, China, not Japan, has nuclear
>>>weapons.  China, not Japan, is proliferating nuclear weapons technology
>>>to 3rd world nations.
>>Somehow, I don't recall comparing the relative military might of Japan
>>and China in my original posting.
>>...
>
>Baloney.  Mr. Chua said that he was concerned about (1) Japan's editing
>of the history books in the high schools and that, as a conseqence,
>he was worried that (2) this posed a military threat to Asia in the future.
>Mr. Chua also noted that he was worried about (3) Japan's new law
>enabling the sending of troops overseas.

I guess Dwight didn't read my original posting.  I urge people to do so
before they take Dwight's judgement of me at face value.  I said that I
was concerned about Japan's editing of history books because then young
Japanese will not understand the caution that people in Asia exercise
when Japan expands her armed forces.  The main issue I was pointing out
was the fact that the memory of WWII is still strong in the minds
of most Asians and events might take a tragic turn if Japan is to
miscontrue the caution of her Asian neighbours as some kind of
wartime subjugation, not unlike the sentiment that was strong in Weimar
Germany.

I never said I was worried about Japan as a military threat in Asia or
about her sending troops overseas.  I was only worried that a distorted
view of history and a refusal to acknowledge the facts of WWII will lead
to severe misunderstandings later on.
 
>Note that in order for some country to pose a military threat, 
>it must have adequate weapons technology.  Therefore, we have
>the 3 worries of Mr. Chua:
>
>(1) Japan's editing of history books; distortion of history
>(2) advanced military technology in Japan
>(3) sending troops overseas; Japanese participation in RimPac92 military 
>    exercises is the 1st consequence of the new law that permits Japan
>    to send troops overseas.
Like I said, other than the first point, I never explicitly said points
2 or 3.  The words RimPac 92 didn't even pop up at all.

>>>Japan, not China, has been a democracy for the last 45 years.
>>>Sure, Japan probably poses a greater threat than the USA, militarily,
>>>simply because of how Japan views "why war is wrong".  To the Japanese,
>>>war is wrong because Japanese lives are lost.  Think about what
>>>the means.  In America, we think that war is wrong because _human_ lives
>>>are lost.
>>
>>I too did not mention anything about the governments in both countries
>
>Baloney.  This falls under the category of #3.
Like I said, no mention of 3 in my post.  Besides, your #3 was about
Japan participating in RimPac92 military exercises.  I don't see how a
comparison of governments falls into that category

[some stuff deleted]
>>>
>>>Let's do a line by line comparison to too see just how ridiculous
>>>Mr. KhengHwa's reasoning is.
>>>
>>>  KhengHwa's [Mr. Chua's] "worries"
>>>         about Japan                       China _today_
>>>
>>>  1.    distorts history             Maoist indoctrination for all children
>>>                                     teaches kids that Taiwan must
>>>                                        be destroyed if it goes independent
>>>                                     capitalism is rotten unless
>>>                                        Deng says so
>>>                                     distorts all history
>>>                                     ...
>>>
>>>  2.  advanced military              has A-bomb
>>>       tech. in Japan                has H-bomb
>>>                                     has neutron-bomb because
>>>                                        Chinese-American leaked military
>>>                                        secrets from high energy lab in CA
>>>                                        to the "mother land"
>>>                                     continues to solicit spies among
>>>                                        Chinese-Americans
>>>                                     ...
>>>
>>>  3.  Japan participates             has the largest army in the world
>>>     in RimPac92 military            had military skirmishes with Vietnam
>>>     exercises with USA &            supported military insurgencies in Cambodia
>>>     S. Korea after gut-wrenching    has seized Tibet
>>>     debate in Diet                  has threatened military and nuclear war
>>>                                        if Taiwan declares independence
>>>                                     ...
>>>
>>
>>I have to take you to task for mis-quoting me.  I did mention distorting
>>history but nowhere in my post did I even mention  Japan's advanced military
>>technology in those words.  Neither did I mention Japan's participation
>>in RimPac92, or the words South Korea!  I'm pretty sure you are flaming
>>the worng person.
>
>Baloney.
>
>What's the matter?  Are you surprised at the mass of information that
>I have accumulated about both countries?  I have no intention of letting
>a Chinese-cu person hoodwink Asian-Americans into thinking that Japan
>is the military ogre and that China is some kind of potential
>innocent victim.


Like I said, I never said anything about Japan's military might, her
involvement in RimPac, or South Korea.  I am not surprised at the amount
of information you have massed.  I am surprised at the words that you
seem to put in my mouth when you say something like let's do a line by
line comparison to see how ridiculous my reasoning is when I have in no
way said the majority of what you have problems with.


>Furthermore, as I noted above, you did complain about Japan's
>passing a law to send troops overseas.  The 1st consequence of that
>law is Japan's participation for the 1st time in the RimPac
>military exercises with the USA, S. Korea, and some SE Asian countries,
>to be held in 1992.
>
>Or don't you keep up with the news?  Or is it really that you
>are inclined to believe Chinese-cu bigots as they distort reality
>to fit their pompous Chinese-cu lies?

If you looked at my original posting, I didn't complain about Japan's
passing a law to send troops overseas.  I only said that anti-Japanese
sentiment is still strong here in Asia, not just with ethnic Chinese,
but also among people of other ethnicities and that playing down Japan's
role in the War will only hinder the Japanese understanding of these
feelings.
Just as an aside, could someone help me out by explaining what
Chinese-cu means?  I've never heard that one before.  

>What Mr. Lor, the Chinese-cu, was b*tching about is that he
>and other predominantly Chinese-ge nations?  The Chinese have

I must be missing out on something here, but I have never heard of
Chinese-ge either.

>
>>  I
>>believe this was the main issue that first cropped up in that letter.
>>All this talk about China's oppressive government was never the main
>>issue until people started to compare numbers killed like it was the
>>latest baseball stats.
>
>Maybe, a Chinese-cu might think like this, but a Westerner-cu wouldn't.
>To a Westerner-cu, human lives are important, the same can't be said
>for a Chinese-cu.

So, are you saying that Chinese (are you talking about people of Chinese
nationality or people who are Chinese by race?) are barbaric 'cos
Chinese (stil haven't figured out who you're talking about yet) don't
value human life?  Where, prithee, did you get the impression that I
(I'm assuming you are talking about ethnic Chinese) don't value life as
much as anyone here?

[aside...  Is it just me or do I get the nagging feeling that the
suffixes -cu and -ge are not the most flattering of terms?...]
>



>>I think alot of your confusion is due to the fact that for some reason,
>>these last postings have been posted on 3 different newsgroups,
>>including soc.culture.asianamerican.  I don't know who started posting
>>to all 3 groups but hopefully it won't happen again.
>
>Come on.  You Chinese-cu you.

Ahh, that curious -cu suffix again.  This time it really sounds bad.
Wonder what it means? 


>
>Mr. Chua, you know exactly who started posting to all 3 newsgroups.  Come
>on.  Mr. Lor posted to all three newsgroups.  He thought that Asian-Americans
>are as easy hoodwink as other people born overseas.  He also thought
>that Asian-Americans are really inclined to their "true mother lands"
>on the other side of the Pacific.
>
>Come on, Mr. Chua.  Mr. Lor's original post was made only a
>couple of days again.  So, here's a statement that I just made
>that can be easily verified.  Just do a little search for the string
>"Lor".  You will soon obtain the post in which he hypocritically
>asked Asian-Americans to support his "demands" on the Japanese
>emperor.

Well, I can't speak of Lor but I do take offense to your comment about
people being born overseas (from the US) as being easily hoodwinked.  We
wouldn't have the 4 Tigers plus rapidly expanding M'sia and Thailand if
we were easily hoodwinked.  I'd really appreciate a stop to these gross
generalisations. 


>>The only reason
>>why I'm posting to all 3 is because I have been misquoted and would like
>>to clarify my stand.  Please either email me directly or just post you
>>response to soc.culture.asean
>
>I don't interact in newsgroups where there are excessive numbers of
>Chinese-cu.  I can't stomach stupidity, bigotry, cruelty [especially
>towards children], deceitfulness, and all-around mental masturbations
>for very long.
>
>That's why I only interact in soc.culture.asian.american as far as
>anything Asian in a newsgroup is concerned.  So, if people to don't want
>me to condemn  Chinese-cu bigotry, then I'd suggest that the Chinese-cu
>confine their mental masturbations to predominantly Chinese-cu newsgroups
>and keep it out of s.c.asian.american.

Ahh, some more nastiness.  I guess at this point, it is safe to conclude that
I belong to that group of people Dwight so affectionately calls the
Chinese-cu since I read s.c.asean.  Wonder where that puts the rest of
our ASEAN brothers and sisters?  And to think that I am guilty of
stupidity, bigotry, ...., and all-around mental masturbation.  What will
my mom think, I wonder?  

But seriously, I like discussions but I don't tolerate these generalised
charges and attacks on not only myself, but also towards other readers
of s.c.asean.  I am almost tempted to demand an apology from you for
such insinuations against readers of a newsgroup that you say you don't
read because of the excessive numbers of Chinese-cu. [really, I need to
find out what that modifier means]

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
>Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
>                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
>Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chua, KhengHwa		
PO Box 4489,
Stanford CA 94309
USA
Tel : (415) 497-0755
Blk 14, Marine Terrace,
#16-180, Singapore (1544)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.asean