HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rh3b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Robert W. Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Conceited Arrogant Assholes
Date: 13 Apr 92 00:01:32 GMT
Organization: Sophomore, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 11-Apr-92 Conceited Arrogant
Assholes Kevin M. Bernatz@andrew. (839)

> Hmmm,
> 	It seems this board has become swamped with a bunch of Conceited
> Arrogant Assholes.  I always thought that the beauty of Netrek was that
> talk was cheap, and everyone knew who they respected.  All this Horseman
> and UPenn bullshit is getting out of hand.  All the horsemen are decent
> players, that's a fact not an opinion.  Upenn has FreeKill and Hector
> (and I'd be willing to bet others that I don't know).  Both are also
> clued, though Hector is similar to Fury in being a planet scum.  I don't
> know who started the "we're better than you " shit, but I used to think
> that a few people were above it, Rob...Don.....   Don't let your rank go
> to your head, you both know what respect is and why/how it's gotten.  If
> everyone else wants to act like an ass, it doesn't mean you have to too.
>  

> -KB
>  A very disappointed Rear Admiral Akira

> Rank has not, and will not go to my head.  If you would take the time to
> read mine (and don's) post(s), you would see that we never said 'we are
> better than you...we will genocide you...'.  Frankly, i don't care.  I
> posted this whole challenge thing because some of the UPENN players were
> running their mouth about my team, and i wanted to see if their talk was
> truly cheap.  I understand that the UPENN team doesn't have the time for
> the game...perhaps they could withdrawl their challenge?

> Also, i never mentioned anything about a genocide...how the hell did my
> name get on this?  Anyway, i think the UPENN team is one of the best INL
> teams, but i think that the horsmen would narrowly beat them due to our
> superior experience, not necessarily skill as i previously stated.

> Kev...where did you get that don or I said anything about being better
> than the UPENN players?  I would not make a statement like
> that....unless one of them were being rather obnoxious during a game. 
> Get your facts straight...there has been far too many posts, but i don't
> believe that don or I ever said this.

> As for a clueful team being genocided...it can happen.  Team :) was
> never genocided, Darkhorse was never even close.  Both played excellent
> games, but only :) was in danger of being genocided.

> I disagree with mojo about the attacking team having the advantage,
> though.  The advantage is clearly with the defending team.  A defender
> can generally ogg the planet taker and escorts 4 times before the group
> is near his home planet.

> Rob
> Spaceace!
From: tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Timothy C. Worsley)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: 'Q' in an SB
Date: 7 Apr 92 03:27:31 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


	You should quit out instantly if you are in green alert with zero
damage.  Sometimes it gets a bit confused and starts a countdown when it
shouldn't, or circumstances change.  This also happens to normal ships,
but it's less noticeable with only a 10 second countdown.  My
understanding is that quitting out does not rob your team of the SB
(unless they have less than 5 planets, of course).

ZZnew guy
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: special clue server
Date: 10 Apr 92 22:31:01 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <8dtNk1i00axfIUqFBF@andrew.cmu.edu> jc7o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joo C. Chung) writes:
>> Anyways, is there any way we could get a high clue server going that is 
>> invitation only.  Perhaps the invitation system could be made such that anybody
>> who is Flt. Capt. or higher on bronco AND would make Flt. Capt. with only a
>> 2.0 planet rating could be invited.  Or it could just be up to the server god
>
>	[some more stuff deleted]
>	
>> FreeKill
>
>I resent this. I have a Flt. Capt. on bronco but I consistently do not
>maintain high stats because I don't "scum" enough.
[thwack]

The part that went into the "some more stuff deleted section" was, if I'm
not mistaken, a proposal that the server diety would choose who would be
allowed and who wouldn't.  This makes good sense, although it could get into
the realm of personal politics, elitism, etc, etc.

Let's face it though, it's a free country, and people can set up servers
any way they want to.  If you scream and yell about how you resent it and
how unfair it is, they aren't going to let you on no matter what rank you
have.

You do have a point though.  As you said:

>P.S. Rank is meaningless. It only intimidates the neophytes. Get to know
>the people, not the rank.

If there is a "clue" server, I strongly recommend that rank be *REMOVED*
from it.  Since everyone has a clue, and there's no need to impress the
newbies, why bother?  By eliminating rank from the clued server, you'd
remove any remaining tendency to scum.

Please note that I am *NOT* suggesting we remove ranks from all servers;
this has been discussed countless times and has been rejected.  However, on
an invitation-only clue-only server, rank really would be meaningless.

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: von@wucs1.wustl.edu (Steve Von Worley)
Subject: Re: Ogging for the wrong reasons
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis Mo.
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 20:16:31 GMT

In article <73449@netnews.upenn.edu> paulsen@widget.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen ) writes:
>In article <1992Apr8.231114.3686@wuecl.wustl.edu> von@wucs1.wustl.edu (Steve Von Worley) writes:
>>In article <73322@netnews.upenn.edu> paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen ) writes:
>
>>Yes, they were a pretty good source of free kills (until I switched).
>
>Watermelon scum!

Damn straight!  The team that bomb scums, planet scums, and ogg scums the
best wins!  Throw in a pinch of teamwork, at strategic intervals, and 

	eureka!  
	Genocide!

Scum! Scum! Scum!
	Scum! Scum! Scum!
		Scum! Scum! Scum!
			Scum! Scum! Scum!
		Scum! Scum! Scum!
	Scum! Scum! Scum!
Scum! Scum! Scum!
	Scum! Scum! Scum!
		Scum! Scum! Scum!
			Scum! Scum! Scum!

>>>I like to think that if people ogg me for no reason, it says something about
>>>the threat that I am...
>
>>They seemed to be ogging whoever was closest.
>
>Sure, go ahead and deflate my ego...  Maybe I was always closest was the
>problem...

Someone needed to deflate it;  I could see it from St. Louis!

:)  <-  note, means flames not necessary, the posting was in jest!
And remember, 4 is bloated!

Sandia (watermelon scum) - Ogglomaniac - SCUM

Stephen "Feed Me Giblets and Call Me Frank" Von Worley
von@wuccrc.wustl.edu
Computer and Communications Research Center
Washington University, St. Louis, MO
From: tundra@conquest.ksu.ksu.edu (Daniel Gene McDaniel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Scout Wars! Wheeeee!!!
Date: 13 Apr 1992 14:07:45 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: conquest.ksu.ksu.edu


The other night at netrek.cis.ksu.edu
it was an all out scout war...  Zippp!!!!!   Is there
anywhere where you can have an all out, free for all
duel match?   I just thought I would be cool to have
a bunch of people start with the same ship and battle.
  (you could login as guest or something like that.)
Thus giving an idea of how good you are at dog fighting...

I have a good idea how I match up with Tar and some other
good dog fighters... (Not Good nice 0.4 ratio)  but I would 
like to try against others...

=============================================================================== 
--Tundra/Dan | "The Bigger they are the harder they fall"
             |            -- David
===============================================================================


Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: esj@cs.brown.edu (Eugene Santos Jr.)
Subject: Re: Server code on dec
Keywords: server, code, dec
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 18:22:11 GMT

In article <1992Apr17.091935.54490@yuma.acns.colostate.edu> dd435157@longs.lance.colostate.edu writes:
>
>I am trying to set up a server an am having problems with my systems time.h
>
>compiling socket.c reports:
>
>ccom: Error: socket.c, line 1438: static function declared and
>referenced, but not defined: time
>

My first question is: Which version of the server source code do you have?
Try and get the latest from the various ftp sites.

For a quick fix, just comment out the time() declaration in line 1438.
That should solve the cc problem.

There are various other porting problems for the DEC machines.
My server is fully up and running on a DEC 3100. Feel free to ask me
various questions. But I suggest you grab the latest stuff first.

Limofel / Quovadis / timid / StarBase / (too many others)



uucp:	...!{ihnp4,decvax}!brunix!esj		Eugene Santos Jr.
bitnet:	esj@browncs.bitnet			PO Box 1910, Computer Science
arpa:	esj%cs.brown.edu@relay.cs.net		Brown University
csnet:	esj@cs.brown.edu			Providence, RI 02912
From: ds50+@andrew.cmu.edu (Donald Alan Sutton)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Upenn against any CMU team
Date: 11 Apr 92 19:05:33 GMT
Organization: Senior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Hmm... Let me just say.

I remember a game, fuzzily, before the INL even came into existance
where it was CMU's best verse Berkely's best played on an away server
for both (somewhere in the middle of the country I believe).  CMU
GENOCIDED in something like 30 minutes.  Done. Gone. A clueful team can
"easily" be genocided if the game is not played at home.  The difference
between me taking your agri home planet and my death has often been 1
torp....... And with lag your gonna miss!

Admiral Quar
From: hde+@CS.CMU.EDU (Herbert Enderton)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the *Stategic Game of Netrek*
Date: 17 Apr 92 20:32:20 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University

In article <1992Apr17.185242.8022@cs.brown.edu>, esj@cs.brown.edu (Eugene Santos Jr.) writes:
...
|> What I am considering, is setting up various *balanced* scenarios
|> where strategies maybe vastly different at winning them. For example,
|> consider the following scenario:
|> 
|> 	"The Early Federation" - early technology
|> 		-Ships available - SC, DD, CA
|> 		-CA's only allowed once a player has earned 4+ kills.
|> 		-No plasmas
|> 		-No cloaking
|> 		-Weapons on SC/DD also scaled down.
|> 		-Lower repair/fuel rates.
|> 		-Persistent damage - Permanently retain 10% of any hull damage
|> 			until a refit. Repair planets do not fix permanent damage.
|> 		-Beaming up/down armies slower.
|> 		-Slower ship rebuild time. Refit also slower.

It's possible that we've worked out most of the strategy and tactics
appropriate for vanilla servers, but we can't really know, and personally,
I doubt it.  I only rarely get the feeling that I really know which
direction my ship should be headed; most of the time I just figure
"well, here's a reasonable thing to try to do."  Most players make
what I consider obvious strategic blunders very often, but of course
they could be right and I could be wrong.  Maybe flying at warp 5 towards
the nearest enemy really is a good strategy.  Anyway, I guess I don't
really feel much need to muck with the server parameters.  The main
variety in the game comes from the human element.  In most pick-up games,
I think a lot about what my opponents and teammates are likely to do, given
their various abilities and tendencies, and this influences my playing style
a lot.

"No cloaking" sounds like an interesting mod, for a change of pace.
Restricting ship classes could be fun too, especially if it's set
up so various teams have different restrictions (e.g. Orion scouts
versus Fed cruisers).  The whole "Early Federation" scenario you
describe sounds interesting, but kind of complicated to explain.
When someone joins the game and says "what's going on, why can't I cloak?"
it'd be nice to be able to explain in a one or two line message
exactly what the rule of the day is.

By the way, Gene's server (flint.cs.brown.edu) is way cool, and gets my
vote for the server for clued players to migrate to when bronco is full.
The main thing I like about it is the mechanism for starting tourney-like
games:  everybody sends READY to themselves, and then 60 seconds later
the game starts.  Last night's game (arranged after the scheduled
second test of George's INL server failed to happen) was quite fun.

  -- Red Shirt
From: terence@bronco.ece.cmu.edu (Terence Chang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: UDP and regions
Date: 7 Apr 92 04:23:39 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University

In article <aa7K02aobf1p00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> fadden@xserver.uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden) writes:
>I'm trying xrn.  Anybody know how to change the quote thingy from "|> "?!?

Hmm, the local version of xrn(1X) has a command line option:

     -includePrefix prefix text
               Change the standard prefix for each line of included text from
               the default, "|> ", to the given text string.

>Unless they're
>using fat UDP, double UDP, or forced UDP, the difference should be negligible
>(especially in the server).  The server really isn't doing any extra work;
>it's just supplying bcopy() with a different destination.  Obviously the
>extended modes make things worse, but it's not THAT big a difference.

Yeah, looks like you're right; take a look at this modified ps dump (UDP
users were crossreferenced from netstat, hostnames x'ed to protect the
innocent):

pid       CPU usage (secs)

27482         140 ntserv xxx.ECE.CMU.EDU
27515         137 ntserv xxxxx-xxxx.ECE.CMU.EDU
27578         130 ntserv xxxxxxxxxx.BH.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
27581 UDP     151 ntserv xxx-xx.Berkeley.EDU
27596         136 ntserv xxxxx-xxxx.ECE.CMU.EDU
27630 UDP     124 ntserv xxxxxxx.cs.umd.edu
27631         114 ntserv xxxxxx.cs.umd.edu
27641          96 ntserv xxxxxxxxx.its.rpi.edu
27643 UDP     121 ntserv xxxxxxx.SEAS.UPENN.EDU
27644         109 ntserv xxxxxxx.RES.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
27656 UDP     117 ntserv xxxxx.reed.edu
27657          98 ntserv xxxxxxxx.WS.CC.CMU.EDU
27692          94 ntserv xxxxxx.FRC.RI.CMU.EDU
27696          71 ntserv xxxxxx.BH.ANDREW.CMU.EDU
27707 UDP      38 ntserv xxxxxx.SEAS.UPENN.EDU
27721          23 ntserv xxxxxxxxx.gatech.edu
27757           0 ntserv xxxxxxxxx.BH.ANDREW.CMU.EDU

There are 17 entries given, by increasing pid, therefore by sequential
arrival (connection) time to the server.  The 17th (and subsequent entries)
are listed with 0 seconds CPU time used because they're sleeping on the
queue.

At the time the dump was made, the update limit was set to 5.

If we assume evenly spaced arrival times (unlikely), assume that UDP
connections are initated immediately, ignore the different flavors of UDP,
assume that CPU usage is linearly proportional to total connection time, and
assume that this is a representative sample (unlikely), you can plot CPU
usage vs time for TCP and UDP with xgraph and then do a best straight-line
fit, and compare the slopes.

Heh heh.  Right.  Well, anyway, I tried all that and found that the UDP CPU
usage was 20% +/- 5% steeper than TCP -- which isn't much.  More accurate
measurements could be made.

I guess I'll keep trying these silly experiments.

Terence
-- 
"People who get nostalgic      |  Terence Chang:
 about childhood were          |    e-mail: terence@bronco.ece.cmu.edu
 obviously never children."    |            or an acceptable facsimile thereof
       -- "Calvin and Hobbes"  |            (subject to change w/o notice)
From: hde+@CS.CMU.EDU (Herbert Enderton)
Subject: simplifying netrek
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 20:57:39 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University

If I had time, here's what I would build, a game that I think would
be more fun than netrek:

The client would have just one screen, which shows all the planets,
ships and torpedos.  Put in a background of stars so that nearby cloaked
ships can be subtlely shown by distorting parts of the starfield by a pixel
or two.

The galaxy would be smaller (since otherwise the ships have to be
miniscule in the display).  Two races only, just a handful of planets each.

Give the ships thrusters and keys to turn left and right, like in Asteroids.
The mouse could be used just for weapons.  Put in more friction than Asteroids
has, though, so that the ships can't go too fast.  Keep some mechanism
for locking course for a planet.

Keep the netrek rules for planet conquest.  Well, simplify them, but keep
the same basic idea of getting kills in order to pick up armies with which
to take planets.  Keep bombing and army growth similar to netrek too.
Other rules and mechanisms would be similar to netrek's, just simpler.

Do the client-server communication in a smart way, e.g. have the server just
send out course corrections and collision information, and let the client
interpolate to make the motion of the torpedos look smooth and so forth.

  -- Red Shirt
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jg@cs.brown.edu (Jeremy Gaffney)
Subject: Re: plasmas?
Organization: Brown Computer Science Dept.
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 19:54:59 GMT

Heh. The best uses for plasma torps are:
a) To check for unannounced borgs.
b) To kill people who are dodging torps well.
c) Planet-taker or ogger destruction.

c) is obvious, how does one do the first 2?  Simple. Fire a stream
of torps, and right in the middile (4th-5th torp or so) imbed a 
plasma. The plasma is almost impossible to see, so if you've done 
this well, it will be phasered only by a borg (such as that RPI 
unannouncing one).  Consistent shooting of it as it goes past or
equidistant shooting thru multiple plasmas are a sure sign.  And someone 
(like me) who dodges torps with as little room to spare as possible gets 
nailed with the plasma, and becomes an easy kill for your nearby 
teamates who otherwise couldn't shoot 'im. 
(Gawd, I hate giving up my secrets, and this one has 
worked so well...)
-- 
/*  Jeremy Gaffney [jg@cs.brown.edu gaffer@brownvm.brown.edu] */
From: kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu (Kevin Michael Bernatz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Conceited Arrogant Assholes
Date: 12 Apr 92 01:21:52 GMT
Organization: Junior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Hmmm,
	It seems this board has become swamped with a bunch of Conceited
Arrogant Assholes.  I always thought that the beauty of Netrek was that
talk was cheap, and everyone knew who they respected.  All this Horseman
and UPenn bullshit is getting out of hand.  All the horsemen are decent
players, that's a fact not an opinion.  Upenn has FreeKill and Hector
(and I'd be willing to bet others that I don't know).  Both are also
clued, though Hector is similar to Fury in being a planet scum.  I don't
know who started the "we're better than you " shit, but I used to think
that a few people were above it, Rob...Don.....   Don't let your rank go
to your head, you both know what respect is and why/how it's gotten.  If
everyone else wants to act like an ass, it doesn't mean you have to too.
 

-KB
 A very disappointed Rear Admiral Akira
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: explorer@iastate.edu (Michael Graff)
Subject: Anyone running a server under Ultrix 4.1?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 19:59:31 GMT

I'm running a server on a DECstation 2100 under Ultrix 4.1, and am having
memory problems with the daemon process:

root      1359  0.0  2.9  508  412 ?  S     0:02 daemon
root      1359  0.0  4.6  844  664 ?  S     0:06 daemon
root      1359  0.0  6.3 1180  916 ?  S     0:14 daemon
root      1359  0.0  8.0 1516 1168 ?  S     0:31 daemon
root      1359  0.0 14.9 2860 2180 ?  S     6:51 daemon
root      1359  0.0 16.6 3196 2432 ?  S     7:02 daemon

As you can see, the process just eats more memory until reaching around 33
meg then dies because of lack of core.  Hmm...

So I was hoping to find others who run under Ultrix 4.1 and see if this is
a problem I have or a problem everyone under 4.1 has.

Bronco runs 4.2, and does not have this problem.

-- 
Michael Graff    Iowa State University Computation Center      Project Vincent
237 Durham                voice: (515) 294-4994           explorer@iastate.edu
Ames, IA  50010           fax:   (515) 294-1717           gg.mlg@isumvs.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: osyjm@coe.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen)
Subject: Re: Concerning INL stats
Organization: Montana State University, College of Engineering, Bozeman MT, 59717
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 14:47:46 GMT

In article <4dsl1SW00Vp88kFkdX@andrew.cmu.edu> cb39+@andrew.cmu.edu (Craig Boas) writes:
>Hi!
>
>	This is really unimportant, but the INL stats aren't right.  It might
>involve playing base, since most people's look ok, but I think the stats
>only reflect the time I played from when I lost my last base in both of
>the previous games.  I know for a fact I scout bombed for a while, but

It seems like the servers lose whatever you do before you become a base.

ie, I play a BB, get a couple kills, then switch to base.  Mess around,
refit back to BB, and not only do I not have my SB kills (which is
right), I also don't have my original 2 kills as well.
-- 
 Jaye Mathisen, COE Systems Manager                (406) 994-4780
 410 Roberts Hall,Dept. of Computer Science
 Montana State University,Bozeman MT 59717	osyjm@{cs,coe}.montana.edu
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen )
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Eh?
Date: 8 Apr 92 21:21:26 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <QdscPd200WBO0=C9gj@andrew.cmu.edu> jd3w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jeffrey Dawn) writes:
>Obviously you haven't seen The EVIL twin oggers at work..
>namely, Val Ckurai, and guest_ ( or _ensign).

And you haven't seen the tag team ogging of MUCUS PIG and FreeKill

FreeKill
Xref: sparky rec.games.netrek:174 alt.games.xtrek:3650
From: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek,alt.games.xtrek
Subject: Re: Random bit of detail
Date: 6 Apr 92 08:19:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.rp1ieINNpn
Reply-To: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
Organization: The Sinister Icy Black Hand of Death Club
NNTP-Posting-Host: hailstorm.berkeley.edu
Originator: goldfarb@hailstorm.berkeley.edu

In article <03uA02Vkbf7u00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden) writes:
)In article <SFRAZIER.92Apr4140515@cs.ulowell.edu> sfrazier@cs.ulowell.edu (Scott Frazier) writes:
)>	I'm planning to change the server code such that torps/phasers
)>damage anything they hit.  The idea that a torp won't kill you because
)>someone on your team shot it is kinda silly.  I want to allow for
)>"friendly fire" and see how things work out.
)
)Of course, as soon as you get a newbie who doesn't know the difference between
)his team and the enemy you'll wish you hadn't made that change...
)
)>Scott W. Frazier
)-- 
)Andy McFadden

	Worse than newbies are deliberate traitors. When I was first starting
out playing netrek declaring war on your own team was permitted, with results
similar to this. About once a night someone would think it was a giggle to
turn traitor. His teammates would start ignoring the enemy in favor of killing
him whenever they could and the game would just generally be screwed up until
that person got bored and left.

	IMHO, having your torps not damage your teammates was a very good idea.

Rear Admiral Zach Paleozogt
-- 
David Goldfarb    goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu   (Insert standard disclaimer)
"Baldrick, you wouldn't know a cunning plan if it came up, bit you on the
behind, and sang three choruses of a song set to the tune of 'I am a Pirate 
King' called 'I am a Cunning Plan'."
From: labc-3ae@web-2h.berkeley.edu (Superman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: New Horsemen proposal
Date: 15 Apr 92 21:02:14 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: web-2h.berkeley.edu
Originator: labc-3ae@web-2h.berkeley.edu


It has been my life long dream to ride
among the Horsemen.

Will you guys take me into your elite 
deathmonging crew?????

My Little Pony
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek