HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dks@kristyna.Prime.COM (Dave Snay)
Subject: Re:      Re: repairing a caned chair
Reply-To: dks@kristyna.Prime.COM (Dave Snay)
Organization: Prime Computer R&D
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 12:11:47 GMT

My wife's grandfather re-does caned chairs as a hobby. From watching 
him, it seems that there is no glue in the caned chairs. It is simply
wedged in. The only suggestion I have for removing it is a lot of 
patience while you pry it out. My wife's grandfather has some tools
that look like they are specialized for the task of removing old caning,
but I could be wrong. 

best of luck,

--
--
Ever try golfing in scuba gear?
Not a pretty sight.

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Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 11:33:26 -0800
From:         RMTYE@BIIVAX.DP.BECKMAN.COM
Subject:      Re: Band Saw and wood lathe
X-To:         WOODWORK%IPFWVM.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU

I've been looking at the add's for reliant 14" band saws too. I haven't
broken down and gotten one yet (I'd like to hear from owners too); but,
I've seen ocasional mail order sale prices of $280 - $300 including shipping.


                                Ron
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: kell@lark.jsc.nasa.gov (TED KELL)
Subject: Re: Maybe YOU can learn from MY mistake
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: kell@lark.jsc.nasa.gov
Organization: NASA Johnson Space Flight Center - Clear Lake City, TX, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: 21 AUG 92 16:46:49    

In article <1992Aug21.172627.16199@kodak.kodak.com>, kroth@sunshine.Kodak.COM (David Kroth) writes...
>In article <1992Aug21.094514.1@max.u.washington.edu> John writes:
>>Hopefully you took pictures with a handy polaroid first to make sure that
>                                          ^^^^^^^^
>>the insurance adjuster sees the damage at its worst.
> 
> 
>Use Kodak film and developing instead of Polaroid ;)
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> 
> 
>Dave Kroth
>kroth@acadia.kodak.com
> 
>Disclaimer: I am in no way connected to Eastman Kodak, except that they
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>employ me as an engineer and pay me a substantial salary for my ideas and
>opinions.  I also own a small amount of stock in the company.

Hummmmm
From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: An UnGrizzly Tale, and too tall stuff
Date: 14 Aug 92 00:45:28 GMT
Organization: Elegant Communications Inc., Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Aug12.234310.23644@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.134917.1@max.u.washington.edu> games@max.u.washington.edu writes:

>>I notice that there is only a 10" discrepancy between the unit, and the 
>>ceiling.  Will it not fit between the joists? (Typically 12" tall, and 16"
>>on center?) 

>Before anyone knocks holes in ceilings checking on this, I worked in
>construction trades for nearly 15 years and I've never seen a house with
>1x12 joists. I have seen several go up with 1x10s for the ground floor,
>but 1x8s are much more commonly used. Both my house and my brother's
>house here in NJ have 1x8 joists for the ground floor, and (in mine)
>the second floor. Other houses I've worked on were in the Southeast U.S.

>Perhaps things are different out west?

Must be pretty wierd down there too.  I've never seen 1x*anything* used
as floor joists.

I think you mean 2x...

It entirely depends on the spans involved.  2x10 is reasonably common.
My house for example - 2x10, 12" OC.  (15 foot spans)  Nice solid floor...

When you're getting a house built, it's always a good idea to go up a
size or two (or down in joist spacing) from the "contractor standard"...

Besides, if that 10" is really something a little closer to 9.5", he
just *might* make it with 2x10s.  Especially when you factor in the
thickness of the ceiling material, and lathe or whatever - which could
add as much as another 2 inches.
-- 
Chris Lewis; clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca; Phone: Canada 613 832-0541
Psroff 3.0 info: psroff-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Ferret list: ferret-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: john@westford.ccur.com (John Cooper)
Subject: Re: An UnGrizzly Tale, and too tall stuff
Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp. Westford MA.
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:18:57 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.234310.23644@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.134917.1@max.u.washington.edu> games@max.u.washington.edu writes:
>
>>I notice that there is only a 10" discrepancy between the unit, and the 
>>ceiling.  Will it not fit between the joists? (Typically 12" tall, and 16"
>>on center?) 
>
>Before anyone knocks holes in ceilings checking on this, I worked in
>construction trades for nearly 15 years and I've never seen a house with
>1x12 joists. I have seen several go up with 1x10s for the ground floor,
>but 1x8s are much more commonly used. Both my house and my brother's
>house here in NJ have 1x8 joists for the ground floor, and (in mine)
>the second floor. Other houses I've worked on were in the Southeast U.S.
>
>Perhaps things are different out west?
    :
>George Patterson -

I think you meant (2xN).  One reason to use deeper joists is to reduce
deflection.  Joist deflection (not strength) is the limiting factor of
the allowable clear span for a joist.  Deflection typically is limited
to 1/360th of clear span for floors and 1/240th span for ceilings.  The
deflection under load varies with species/grade/moisture content of the
wood used and charts are available which detail maximum clear span for
various applications.  If my memory serves me correctly the deflection of a
beam for a given load varies indirectly with the cube of the beam's depth
and strength varies directly with the square of the depth.  Thus if a 2x8
joist (7.25" deep) deflects 1.0cm under load, a 2x10 and 2x12 would deflect
0.625cm and 0.42cm respectively with the same load applied.  This gives the
2x10 60% more and the 2x12 140% more stiffness that the 2x8.

Floors which deflect excessively cause problems with coverings like ceramic
tile and IMHO are unsettling when walked on.  My 'old' house had spruce 2x8's
16" o.c. spanning just under 12'.  Lamps would rattle on tables placed mid-span
when someone walked across the floor.  When I framed my current house I used
2x12's 16" o.c. with a span of ~13' with two layers of 3/4" T&G plywood glue-
nailed to the joists.  The deflection is minimal and the incremental cost is
quite small compared with overall materials cost (ask me about red cedar
$iding).

-john
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: yasin@laser.dev.cdx.mot.com (Yasin)
Subject: Problem with Belt Sander
Organization: Motorola Codex, Canton, Massachusetts
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:00:12 GMT


The belt sander I have either throws the belt away 
from the path or grooves into the handle, I have
tried turning the adjustement of the knob, but as
soon as it hits the job, the belt is again off the
path.

Appreciate any help on this problem. Had used this
for over couple of months without any problem.
From: furr@pilot.njin.net (Grover Furr)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Forstner vs spur from Grizzly
Keywords: Forstner, Grizzly
Date: 22 Aug 92 22:15:38 GMT
Organization: Montclair State College, Upper Montclair, NJ


	I really do like the products and tools I've bought from
Grizzly. Last week,  however, I got a multi-spur bit, 1", from
Grizzly. I had ordered, and given the part number for, a Forstner bit.
Grizzly sells multi-spur bits, advertised as such, for larger sizes,
and this was supposed to be a Forstner bit. 

	Since I'll probably never sharpen the bit either way, I wonder
whether one is longer-lasting than the other, or in general which one
is better. Last year I did order a 1 1/8" Forstner from Grizzly, and
that's what I got. 

	Any insights into which kind is better? 

	
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Grover C. Furr

Home: 121 Oakland Terrace               Work: English Department
      Newark, NJ 07106                        Montclair State College
      ARS AA2GP                               Upper Montclair, NJ 07043
email: furr@pilot.njin.net
       furr@apollo.montclair.edu
 
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
From: tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Maybe YOU can learn from MY mistake
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:43:41 GMT
Distribution: world, usa, na
Organization: A.I. Chem Lab, University of Arizona

Yesterday, while I was at work,  we had a tremendous desert storm with wind 
gusts and over 2 inches of rain.  Last night I had the distinct "pleasure" 
of coming home from work to find my garage roof waiting for me in the 
driveway.  My shop is in the garage...   can you guess whats coming???


Everything that was put away in drawers that were closed is okay.   My
brand new Bosch 3 HP plunge router, which I lefft on top of the bench
was sitting in 1/2" of water, and had water running INTO the motor...
My planes and carving tools left on the bench are all a nice brown color.

The wood in the rack is all dry and okay.  But the 200+ BF of 16/4 white
oak hadn't been put in the rack yet.  It was sitting on the floor,
in a 1" deep puddle of water.   

Worse yet!  The waste from the drinding wheel had left iron filings on
the floor...    Oak and iron rust and water gives a nice permanant
blue black ink...  so a lot of my white oak is blue black oak to goodness
knows how deep.

The take home lesson...    I had actually somewhat worried about water
seepeage. That's why I built a BIG rack for all of my wood.  Thank goodness
80% of my wood was in the rack.   Everything that was put away was safe.
The tools that were put away correctly (other than the  floor tools like the 
table saw) were all safe.  The only ones that were damaged were out
or in drawers that were left open a crack (imagine opening a drawer to find
a #45 Stanly and a complete set of cutters SLOSHING in 1" of water).

Plan for disaster.   Stick to your plan.

It took 4 hours to get everything stabilized (it will take days to
steel wool all of the tables, blades, etc..).  Then I sat down with a 
very large brandy... about 2/3 pint.  Tis morning I relearned a second
lesson - booze never helps, and the mornings after are a bitch.
From: jfarmer@cs.utk.edu (JOHN FARMER)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: Emperor Clock Kits - any experiences?
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:23:06 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee, Knoxville - CS Department
NNTP-Posting-Host: duncan.cs.utk.edu
Summary: No direct experience but everybody should build a clock

In article <1992Aug18.201513.4262@comp.lancs.ac.uk> davei@comp.lancs.ac.uk (Mr D Ingles) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.122306.10795@walter.cray.com> jeffz@cray.com (Jeff Zais) writes:
>>I'm getting serious about purchasing a grandfather clock kit from the 
>>Emperor Clock Company catalog.  Does anyone out there have any 
>>experience with these kits (or other clock kits from other makers)?
>
>I am interested in such kits etc as well. Does anyone know of any good 
>catalogues for this type of hobby ?
>
>Davei

I don't know much about the Emperor Clocks, most of my experience has
been (indirectly) with the Mason & Sullivan clocks.  My father-in-law
has built several, including the Vienna Regulator hanging in my
living room.  His comment on the Emperor Clocks was that they didn't
appear to be as good as the M&S's.  I think that his assetment was 
based on how their kits, materials, movements, etc. appeared in 
their literture.

I have to say that based on helping him on several wall clocks
and several "grandfather" clocks that the Mason & Sullivan's are
excellent.  You can buy a complete "kit", a bare-bones partial
kit (glass and the harder moldings, turnings, etc), a partial
kit with the materials for case work, just the plans, ..
well you get the idea.  Since my father-in-law does not have a 
lathe and does not want to get into the glass grinding business,
he usually buys the bare-bones partial kit.

The big thing to watch (small joke there...) for is the quality
of the movement.  Of course if all you want is "just a clock"
then most of the suppliers have good quartz electric movements
to hide in your wood/plastic/whatever...

I like having the case full of gears, weights, etc. that our clock
has (even winding it every six days...).  Call it romatic, call it
silly, but it's hard to sleep now without that steady "tic-toc"
echoing faintly through the house.  Every house should have it.

(Besides, most of my woodworking is the rougher "build a cabinet",
build a bookcase, I want oak, no I want pine, no I want cheap!
variety. That lovely collection of walnut on my living room wall
reminds me that a useful thing can also be a beautiful thing.)

John

-- 
John T. Farmer, Jr.					jfarmer@cs.utk.edu
Full-time Daddy, Part-time Grad Student,
Full-time wage slave, Wood butcher when I can.
From: tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: crown moulding
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:11:17 GMT
Organization: A.I. Chem Lab, University of Arizona

In article <1992Aug12.174205.8200@informix.com> davek@informix.com (David Kosenko) writes:
>
>>As with things such as wood panelled walls the more affluent you were
>>the more ornate the woodwork was!! 
>
>According to David Owen ("The Walls Around Us"), in the past, the more
>affluent had more PLASTER on their walls, and moulding (waincoting, etc.)
>was there solely to protect the precious plaster from damage by chairs,
>tables, boots, etc.  The really, REALLY affluent had ornate plaster work
>on their walls and ceiling. 

Well,  it all depends on "when" you are talking about.   In the 1300's
the affulent lived in castles of stone (most every one else lived in mud huts)
and tapestries were the norm.  However, starting in early 1500 paneling
became more and more common.  In the later 1500's and 1600's it wouldn't
be uncommon to find rooms completely panelled from floor to ceiling.
However, in the later 1600's and early 1700's carved details became more
and mroe common, until we get people like Grinling Gibbons carving
thousands of fruit clusters (and such) for Hampton Court and other
stately houses.  These were carved out of limewood.

Very few people could afford Grinling Gibbons,  so the less affluent
utilized plaster from moulds to simulate the carvings that the REALLY
well to do had.  This would include lesser nobility (the Earl of Powys
at Powys Castle) and the rising middle class (Tredegar House, Farningham
Hall, etc..).  As mentioned,  the walls were often plastered in 
amazingly wonderful patterns (the long hall of Powys Castle,  Sedgewick
Hall, etc...).
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: dwb@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (david.boyle)
Subject: Re: woodworking club in No. NJ?
Keywords: club, No. NJ, woodworking
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 15:40:07 GMT

> In article <Aug.9.01.48.26.1992.3983@pilot.njin.net>, furr@pilot.njin.net (Grover Furr) writes:
> > 
> > 	I'm looking for a woodworking club in No. NJ. If you know of
> > one, or if you are looking for one, too, post a reply (I know others
> > are interested in this question as well.
> 
> 
> I'm interested as well, however, I live near Trenton - Newark/Montclair
> is a decent trip.
> -Scott
Me too, Somerset.....looking for some type of instruction more than a club
right now, although that would also give me the opportunity to learn.
								Dave
From: d3a132@pnl.gov (Carl P Baker)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: A Grizzly Tale: Mr. Grizzly Returns
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:55:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: oracle.1992Aug14.195518.4630
Reply-To: d3a132@pnl.gov
Organization: Battelle Pacific Northwest Laboratories

I think that someone should get Mr. Baiola access to the news
feed so that we all can talk to him directly.  This could get
fun!


Carl P Baker
cp_baker@pnl.gov
509-375-2724

Disclaimer: I am not the official spokesperson for anyone.  For which
organizations that use spokespersons are profoundly grateful.
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: mark@thor.asteroids (Mark Bakke)
Subject: Re: What grits to buy?
Keywords: sander
Reply-To: mark@network.com
Organization: Network Systems Corporation
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 20:49:06 GMT

In article 27758@news.eng.convex.com, rmingee@convex.com (Robert Mingee) writes:
>I may not have enough information yet for this question to have a good answer,
>but here goes:  What assortment of sandpaper grits would be good for general
>use?  I am looking for sanding disks for a Bosch 5" sander, and saw the posting
>yesterday about Quaker State.  They have disks in the following grits:
>80,100,120,150,220,320.  You can buy packs of 100 (50 each of any 2 grits)
>for $27, or they have another 100 pc assortment (25 each of 80,120,150,220) for
>$30.  I haven't done much of any work yet, so I don't know what kinds of wood
>I will be dealing with, but the things I would like to build are basic furniture
>for the house (tables, etc.), and I will have a number of things to refinish.
>is the 4/25 assortment a good range of grits?  Or would I be better off choosing
>50 bundles of other grits?
>
>Any and all advice is appreciated!
>
>Thanks,
>-- robert

I got the 100pc assortment from Quaker State, in addition to a few disks
that came with my sander.  The Quake State disks were made of a strange
white grit that I hadn't seen before.  The Bosch disks were normal
sandpaper.  The Quake State disks don't seem to last quite as long, but
they also give a much more swirl-free finish, which is important for a
RO sander.  The assortment should last quite a while, though, so I'll
wait to order more until I've used up most of a grit.

BTW, the assortment of grits is pretty good.

Mark A. Bakke
mark@network.com

Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: cpr4k@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (Christian P. Roberts)
Subject:  Butcher block - refinishing
Reply-To: cpr4k@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (Christian P. Roberts)
Organization: Academic Computing Center - U.Va.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:05:37 GMT

I have an island counter in my kitchen with a maple butcher
block top, roughly 2.5'x5.5'.  I have treated it on several
occasions over the years with a mixture of mineral oil and
VMP Naphtha.  It may have had a finish on it when installed -
I can't remember now.

The surface is is good shape, but seems rough after the
treatment I gave it yesterday.  That was to clean it with
a baking soda solution, which seems to have raised the grain.
I would like to refinish it to a smooth surface.

Years ago, I built a walnut grandmother clock and refinished it
using a wet-sand technique with oil, turpentine, and varnish.
Could my memory be correct?  

Would this technique work on the butcher block?  The advantage,
I recall, was that the hairs of the wood were raised and stiffened,
to be removed with the next application of the mixture.

If I were to use it on the butcher block, what sort of oil 
should I use?  For the clock, I recall using a Watco oil stain,
but in teh present case, I don't really want to change the
color of the top.

--

Chris Roberts                     Academic Computing Center
cpr4k@virginia.edu                University of Virginia           
(804) 982-4693                    Charlottesville, Virginia 22903
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Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 02:38:05 EST
From:         "Lawrence E. Rondot" <RONDOT@IPFWVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: bending wood

On Wed, 19 Aug 1992 20:30:54 GMT <billq@FNAL.GOV> said:
>In article <9cIk02Zr1eJO01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>, twl10@ccc.amdahl.com (Tom
>Littauer) writes:
>|> In article <1992Aug19.063021.19782@mr.med.ge.com> bednarek@picard.med.ge.com
>(Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971) writes:
>|> >Les Bartel (lester@naomi.NoSubdomain.NoDomain) wrote:
>|> >: What is the best way to bend wood?  I need to make a smooth 90 degree
>|> >: bend on a piece of wood 1 x 3/8 x 8 (the board is longer than this, but
>|> >: the bend must occur in 8 inches).  I soaked the wood in water for
>|> >: about a day and it developed creases in the bend.

Much good stuff on steam bending

>One more thought that hasn't yet been mentioned... is it possible to put
>some saw kerf's on the inside of the bend?  Maybe the kerf's in addition
>to the hot water and/or steam?  Constant pressure seems to work too.  Put
>a weight on the end of the board to provide constant force.  I've also heard
>that there's a chemical that will make wood like rubber, but if I remember
>correctly, it's really nasty stuff.  Anyone else hear of anything like this?
>
>-billq

I was looking at a variety of books on steam bending, and I tend to remember
an article reprint (from FWW I think) that had some type of Ammonia bending
procedure described.  I think that folks at Univ of Wisconsin were responsible
for the article.

If I am remembering the article correctly (a 50-50 chance at 2 in the morn)
they worked their process out with 2-3X atmospheric (sp?) pressure plus some
amount of heat in a containment set up on the top of a building where the
wind would blow away fumes.  I also remembering talking to several of the
folks in our Chem dept about this process.  They looked at me like I was
nuts for even suggesting that I wanted to use "real" ammonia for a hobby.
According to them, it can be real nasty stuff and I should avoid it without
breathing equipment (and its not for looks - at least as long as I want to
continue to breath).

Larry Rondot
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Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 11:13:01 -0600
From:         BOULAN@TECHNET.NM.ORG
Subject:      Re: A Grizzly Tale: Mr. Grizzly Returns
X-To:         WOODWORK%IPFWVM.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU

Well, I quess I am one of those who is enough of an amateur woodworker that
I seldom feel I have enough knowledge to contribute to topics being discussed
by others on the net. I am however experienced in the area of customer service
operations, not only running such operations but conducting classes for other
businesses in the development and operation of effective organizations.

I can only tell you that based on the latest response from Mr. Baiola, I will
never do business with Grizzly. In this competitive age, I can certainly find
alternate sources that are willing to serve me regardless of how long a letter
I wish to write, how upset I am, or any other factor I wish to consider
important to me. I know many of you will question whether or not the original
complaint was reasonably stated or if expectations of what to expect from the
company were reasonable or not, but let me first sya that that is not the point.
A truly good customer service organization deals with a variety of these types
of problems daily and must defuse emotionally distraught customers complaints.
It is part of the business of a good customer service operation. If that is too
much trouble for the Grizzly company, then they don't need my business. I'll
continue to pay a litte but buy from someone like Woodworker's Supply wherw I
have always been treated with the greatest of courtesy and respect despite my
obvious lack of knowkedge.

So Mr. Baiola, my suggeestion to you would be to read two books that might
give you some insight into how to develop a proper customer service mentality:
		1. Thriving on Chaos - Tom Peters
		2. Service America - Karl Albrecht

In the meantime, I'll spent my money somewhere else.
From: ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: An UnGrizzly Tale, and too tall stuff
Date: 13 Aug 92 12:48:24 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

> Before anyone knocks holes in ceilings checking on this, I worked in
> construction trades for nearly 15 years and I've never seen a house with
> 1x12 joists.

Actually, George, I've never seen a house with 1-by-anything joists.
And it's all a matter of how far they've got to span, but you're
right 2x12 joists are unusual.

-Ron

A 2x4 ain't two anythings by four anythings.
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking