HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bvandepe@iti.org (Brenton Vandepeer)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Adelaide: Senna-Mansell crash
Date: 11 Nov 1992 23:35:19 GMT
Organization: The University of Adelaide
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: adelphi.itd.adelaide.edu.au

mrp@ITD.Adelaide.EDU.AU (Mark Prior) writes:

>In article <1dk3psINN65t@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cf947@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chun-Hung Wan) writes:
>|>
>|> Does someone have the full story on how these two drivers crashed.  I did
>|> watch the race but I'm still not too clear on the reasons for the crash.
>|> As far as I know, Senna's reason was that Mansell outbraked him.

>I wasn't down that end of the track but according to the press Mansell
>claims that Senna deliberately rammed him where as Senna claimed that
>Mansell braked sooner than normal and that because he was running so
>close to Mansell he couldn't stop (or get out of the way). The FISA
>officials supported Senna's view of the incident.

>Looking at the tape of the race I too would support Senna's view.

My only objection to this view is that Senna was some 2 to 3 car lengths behind Mansell when Mansell began to break. Mansell did appear (at least to me) to
break early, but not rapidly, before the hairpin. Senna seemed to close the
gap rapidly to Mansell and did not appear to attempt to brake until
collision was unavoidable at which point his car did seem to get a bit
sideways. He (Senna) did say after the race that his rear brakes locked &
hence he could not avoid Mansell. Probably true, but braking after closing
that sort of gap at that speed differential would be impossible. No wonder
his rear brakes locked. Mansell estimated that he was struck by Senna with a
speed differential of about 50 to 60 mph. Watching the replay, it would
appear that Senna had a substantial amount of time to avoid the collision as
he closed the gap to Mansell.

I for one do not believe that Senna deliberately collided with Mansell at
that early stage of the race (lap 19 of 81). I do, however, believe that
Senna suffered the appreciable amount of brain fade usually associated with
certain backmarkers of recent years. The accident must have been,
maliciously or not, Senna's fault.

My final observation? Consider the reaction of the net (and FISA) had Senna
led the race from the beginning and was punted out by a lapped Aguri Suzuki
during an identical incident. Would anyone be out there defending Aguri?
I don't think so.

Regards,

>Mark.
>--
>Mark Prior                              Phone : +61 8 228 5680
>Information Technology Division         Telex : UNIVAD AA89141
>University of Adelaide                  Fax   : +61 8 223 6245
>GPO Box 498 Adelaide S.AUSTRALIA 5001   E-mail: mrp@ITD.Adelaide.EDU.AU
--

Brenton Vandepeer, University of Adelaide, South Australia.

email: bvandepe@physics.adelaide.edu.au
From: Alan.Crowder@prg.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: F1 Stuff
Date: 9 Nov 92 12:52:39 GMT
X-Mailer: mail-news 2.0.3


Hi racers

We all know how much Williams have dominated F1 this year (except
yesterday in aussi) but how about a think for next year. My information
is as follows. ABS on the car which we all heard about some time ago.
But Willy has looked at pre-programmed wings. So when the FW15 gets
to a circut the car knows the circuit like the driver. The wings move
up and down hydralically (sp) so to get speed down the straight and
grip on the corners. Good idea ey!!! And i'm told it works. There is 
something in the rules about things not moving but somehow this has
been got round. Lawyers have been through the rule book backwards this
last four months.

Also i understand they have tried front wings that rotate rearwards
at speed like a jet plane. Another pre-programmed innovation.

Well its getting out if hand if you ask me.

More when i know.

Alan
From: mayor@bayes.ece.cmu.edu (Gilberto S. Mayor)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Senn x Mansell
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:48:28 GMT
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon

>The FISA officials supported Senna's view of the incident.

But, Mansell's fans support Mansell's bright interpretation of the accident.
I really think that each driver has the kind of fans that he deserves.


Gilberto

>Mark.
From: ecrjbruce@economics.adelaide.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Aus GP Stuff
Date: 13 Nov 92 17:51:51 ACST
Organization: Economics, University of Adelaide
NNTP-Posting-Host: eco.economics.adelaide.edu.au

In article <thos.721358186@suite.sw.oz.au>, thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen) writes:
> In <frank.31.721350221@wench.ece.jcu.edu.au> frank@wench.ece.jcu.edu.au (Frank Savaglio) writes:

>>extremely impressed at how Senna 
>>could manage to stay so competetive in an inferior car. For my money, this 
>>makes him the better driver.

According to reports, the Honda has a power advantage over the Renault, its
just that the Williams is a better overall package, particularly with the
semi-auto and the active ride suspension.

>> I couldn't see Mansell doin as well as Senna 
>>given the situation was reversed. (my two cents).


What about at Ferarri?

> He had 
> increased his lead to probably 4 or 5 car lengths, until he ran into the
> backmarkers. Senna, being slightly quicker in traffic closed that gap up
> quite quickly.

the way I saw it the backmarkers hindered NM more than Senna.  This is not a
whinge just a statement that the backmarkers almost invariably hinder the first
guy to pass them more than the second.

> However, kudos to Senna for hanging on like that, pity it
> destroyed some of the race interest.

It was brilliant racing, and was what F1 should be all about.  Senna was going
crazy trying everything to get ahead and NM was doing everything to keep him
out.  Neither was giving an inch and it was brilliant, I was in a stand at the
end of the straight and it was awesome.  Shame wwe didn't get more races like
it during the year.  Hopefully next year something will change, although the
improvements that Williams felt able to release to the papers is scary. 
Traction control, stronger semiauto, less tyre wear, smoother power delivery,
better tyre wear characteristics and of course, the ABS system.  Just hope
somone else whips that damn Frenchman.

>>[driver changes]
>>Ayrton most likely to stay at Maclaren

We keep getting reports that he's gone to Sauber - could be interesting.

> 
> Last I heard they still didn't have engines, and I don't think Senna 
> wanted to stay without a top notch engine.

Again we got told that Ron Dennis knew what the situation was and that he'd
release details in about 1 months time.  I guess when we find out where Senna
goes that will tell us if Renault are supplying him or not.

Another rumour (and I stress rumour) is that NM is going to be at McLaren,
Senna at Sauber and Prost/Damon Hill at Williams.  However this is NOT a
widespread thing.

regs

Rob

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: rda735z@nella12.cc.monash.edu.au (Simon Cocking)
Subject: Re: Adelaide F1 3rd practice, (Sat. am)
Keywords: F1
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 03:23:54 GMT

graeme@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au (Graeme) writes:

.
.

>Mansell commented that the weather was getting hotter,
>and he thought the Friday times were unlikely to be bettered.

Hmmm... judging by his comments yesterday (something like "Can you arrange
for a little rain about midday [today]"), I'd say he rather hopes they won't
:)... although, I must admit it doesn't look as if Senna will manage to go
faster than 1:14.

>Graeme.

Simon.
-- 
+---------------  Simon Cocking, sgc@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au  --------------+
|                       Robotics & Digital Technology                     |
|                             Monash University                           |
+-------------------------  Melbourne, Australia.  -----------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: EHP@snowyt.me.psu.edu (PADDOCK, EVERETT H.)
Subject: Why doesn't Cheever have a ride? (Was: Ganassi/Luyendyk)
Organization: Pennsylvania State Univ., Dept. of Mechanical Engineering
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 21:53:43 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

In <1992Nov11.174310.23051@reed.edu> bradley@reed.edu writes:

Stuff deleted ...

> 1993 PPG Indy Car series.  He replaces Eddie "Undera-" Cheever who had
> a couple of lacklustre seasons with the team.  Cheever has always cited
> lack of testing time as the main reason he never won a race; in fair-
> ness he did have some good finishes and might have had a win were it not

... more Stuff deleted

1.  Let me qualify these statements with this news flash: I am an Eddie
Cheever fan.

2.  Arie is a good Indycar driver who has won the 500.

However, for a driver who was supposed to bring the ability to win oval races to
Ganassi's team, he did not show me much.  Granted that Arie was only in an 
Indycar for a few days this year, but Cheever outqualified him at Michigan and
at the brickyard.

In fact, I think Eddie's showing at the brickyard supports his claim that a
'lack of testing time is the main reason he has never won a race'.  Since the
only place I know that Ganassi's team tested for any length of time is Indy,
one could assume he would have fared better with testing at other tracks.

I really can't explain Eddie's poor perfomances at Detroit, Elkhart Lake and
Cleveland (except for just a plain old lack of track time due to mechanical
failures and a mistake on cold tires).  But I do know that the team tested at
Mid-Ohio before this year's race and he had a respectable effort going until
he ran out of Methanol.  That small amount of testing did seem to improve his
qualifying efforts (Eddie usually does OK during the race) at the remaining
street circuits and road courses.

Overall, I am more dissapointed with Ganassi's efforts than Cheever's (Eddie
always gives 11/10).  If Mr. Ganassi really wanted to please his sponsers
and win a race, he might try testing.

Anyway, WHY DOESN'T EDDIE HAVE A RIDE?!


=============================================================================

Everett Paddock 				email: ehp@snowyt.meZ.psu.edu
Center for Acoustics and Vibration		phone: (814) 863-1986
Department of Mecanical Engineering
Penn State University


	          "I don't just draw cars ..." - John Barnard

=============================================================================
From: uemura@isl.melco.co.jp (Joe Uemura)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Mansell and Senna
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:01:42 GMT
	<1992Nov10.155711.9540@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>
Organization: Mitsubishi Electric, Ofuna, Kanagawa, Japan

In article <1992Nov10.155711.9540@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> kimes@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (Kit Kimes @ Bell Labs) writes:
 |It sounds like what Mansel didn't say is more important than what he did
 |say.  I was quick to blame Senna too (and I still think he was following
 |a little close at a point that he had no chance to overtake), but on
 |further examination, it did look like Mansel either slowed too early or
 |slowed more than he had too.  I didn't hear Mansel say "I took that
 |corner exactly as I had every lap before and Senna just ran up the
 |back of me."  I think we can all remember when Patrese ran up the back
 |of Berger as he slowed to pit just how hard it is to react quickly when
 |someone in front of you does something you don't expect.  
 |
Finally an analysis of the accident I agree completely. I find important 
to remember that it is a lot easier to judge how ____ (insert driver's name 
here) should have behaved on a given incident by simply watching it on TV, 
often several times and with the benefit of slow motion. Bear in mind 
those guys are constantly driving at the limit, and if an incident 
happens, it does not necessarily mean it was done on purpose, brain fade, 
or the guy is an ass. I'm always reminded of this when they show how 
things look from the on-board camera.

 |If every driver left enough room to anticipate the unexpected, we would
 |have a parade and not a race.  I bet that would generate a lot of
 |flames here on the net about the current bunch of F1 whimps.   :-)
 |
Exactly. I found amusing how some people blamed Brundle for not leaving
more room between him and Schumacher in Hungary. When you're racing, you
want to stay as close as you can the guy in front if you want to have any
chance of passing him. If the guy in front does anything unexpected, 
the guy behind may or may not avoid contact. This seems to explain
several incidents this year (Patrese-Berger, Senna-Mansell) without having
to blame  malicious behavior.

Joe
From: nicos@cs.bu.edu (Nicos Kontopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Nigel's records
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:28:07 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: nicos@csa


 I am getting confused with all this so I thought I'd ask:

MOST POLES IN A SEASON
Ayrton had the record before this season.
Has Nigel beaten this record or just tied it? What if he [Nigel] does get
pole tommorow in Australia?

MOST WINS IN A SEASON
Ayrton again had the record before this season.
Has Nigel tied this record? Will he beat this record with a win in
Australia?



 Thanks in advance,

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Nicos Kontopoulos                             Voice: (617) 787-1780
   INTERnet: nicos@cs.bu.edu                           '81 931
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: ctoth@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Christopher M Toth)
Subject: Corvette Turbos
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 07:24:44 GMT

	Do Corvette's come with a Turbo option? Can I get a turbo
on a Vette?

Thanks


-- 
Christopher M. Toth                   "With an Iron fist in a velvet glove
The Ohio State University              We are sheltered under the gun
Columbus State                         In the glory game on the power train
CIS/History Major                      Thy's kingdom's will be done."-Rush
From: veit@Unify.com (Veit Irtenkauf)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Schumacher in F1
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:35:36 GMT
Organization: Unify Corporation (Sacramento)

What's the final ranking on Schumacher in the F1 championship this
year, and who was better?


-- Veit


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Veit Irtenkauf    Technical Marketing Manager  |  email: veit@unify.Com
Unify Corporation                              |  voice: (916) 928-6322
3901 Lennane Drive, Sacramento, CA 95834-1922  |    fax: (916) 928-6406
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: thomas@datamark.co.nz (Thomas Beagle)
Subject: TV Coverage of Adelaide GP (was Re: TSN's "coverage" of Australian GP)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 03:50:54 GMT
Organization: Datamark International Ltd.

Did anyone else think that the coverage of the race was a lot better
than normal?

Example : Where Schumacher was chasing someone (Hakkinen?). Lots of
shots from Schumacher's camera. Switch to aerial shot to show the gap.
Schumacher gets closer. Switch to in car shot. Show the second half of
the pass from a conveniently placed camera on the corner where it
happened.

I just hope that they can export the producer. :-)


-- 
    Thomas Beagle | thomas@datamark.co.nz           Work: 64 4 233 8186
Datamark Intl Ltd | thomas@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz     Home: 64 4 499 3832
 Technical Writer |   Be kind to me, I think I'm suffering from angst.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: mclellan@maximillion.mcc.com (David McLellan)
Subject: Petty chooses a driver
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: MCC Corporate Computing
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:10:00 GMT

For those who haven't heard, Richard Petty chose the driver for #44 
next year -  Rick "Wreck" Wilson. 

David
From: eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Mansell and Senna
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:16:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: engr.Nov09.211253.17772
Organization: clearer than blir

In article <1dmgleINNn3h@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks) writes:
>I don't think Senna did this on purpose.  ESPN had cut to a commercial
>right before the incident.  In this time Senna had gained a lot of ground
>back on Mansell and we never get to see what happened.

it was due to lapped traffic that allowed Senna to catch up with
Mansell.  btw, i think that mika hakkinen should be given a serious
spanking for holding up schumacher so much.  if it wasn't for hakkinen
schumacher may have won.  the schumacher-berger gap opened to 20 odd
seconds because hakkinen would not let him through.  a lot of this was
during espn's commercials, btw.  espn viewers also missed quite a
horrific gugelmin crash, where the detached rear wheel threatened to
come down on his head.

>I think Mansell may have slowed ans Senna was not prepared for this.
>Maybe Mansell even had a problem, I don't know, but I don't think it was
>on purpose.  At any rate you still have to say it was Senna's fault,

my first reaction was that senna punted him off, given his record, but
then after watching several replays, it looked like what the stewards
said it was, "a racing accident".  notice that senna was sideways
before he even hit mansell.  compare that to when he went straight for
prost in suzuka.  also, senna's body language when he came to a halt
makes me believe that indeed it was simply an accident.  i think i am
more upset with hakkinen than i am with senna. (sorry, tom!!)


eliot
From: mclellan@maximillion.mcc.com (David McLellan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Jim Bown at Hickory (BGN)
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:03:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: MCC Corporate Computing
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Nov9.161524.10330@ncube.com>, bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes...
>Just wanted to give a call to my friend Jim Bown for his
>performance at Hickory over the weekend in BGN.  Here's
>a great example of what racings' all about.  

Yes, a great example of what an individual can do.  Also, Bobby Dotter 
should share the same credits, as he kept his unsponsered car near the 
front for a good part of the race.  When you also see the sponser 
trouble of Joe Nemacheck earlier this year and Todd Bodine gaining a 
sponser in mid season last year.

>Congrats to Joe Nemechek for squeezing out the championship.
>Earlier in the season, he was strictly a race-by-race operation.
>He managed to come home 6th yesterday, despite Jimmy Spencer's
>efforts!    

I was just beginning to revise my opinion of Spencer after the last 
two WC races.  Oh well.  Congrats to Chuck Bown also, who may have 
taken more damage to his car when Spencer hit Nemechek.  Bown and 
Nemechek both finished the race in the same order they were in at the 
time of the incident, and maybe even moved up a spot or two.

Glen Jarrett and Buddy Baker had different opinions on that incident, 
Baker being willing to give Spencer more room for doubt.

Did you catch the comment made about Glen interviewing Kenny Wallace 
on Saturday.  Went something like this.  "Kenny, I want to interview 
you, but I have to hold the mike."

>Lastly, is Bobby Labonte destined for #43?
> 

Thought Richard Petty didn't want a BGN driver for the first year.  
But I have no doubt who the better driver of Labonte and Wilson is.  
Guess we'll find out for certain on Thursday.

Lastly, did I hear correctly that Cope and his car owner are 
reconsidering 1993 plans in light of Cope's strong finish at Phoenix?  
That should be one of the first rate rides in WC, but it just hasn't 
been right the last two years.

david
From: cg894@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brian Lee Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Fabi and Hall/VDS
Date: 5 Nov 1992 19:36:32 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Also according to SpeedWeek, Teo Fabi is to replace John Andretti
at Hall/VDS.  The two used to be teamates on the ill-fated Porsche
IndyCar team.  Andretti will reportedly drive the P.I.G. car,   
relacing Ted Prappas.
-- 
      
Brian Wilson...                 Not from the Beach Boys!

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: tvp53202@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Toby Vaughn Padfield)
Subject: Re: Nissan leaving IMSA GTP for IndyCar
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:54:14 GMT

hpb@hpb.cis.pitt.edu (Harry Bloomberg) writes:

>In article <1992Nov11.032805.4425@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:
>>
>>According to the USA Today Sports newsgroup, Team Nissan are pulling out of
>>GTP competition, both IMSA Camel GT Series and Le Mans, and instead will field
>>an IndyCar team.  The article said that Nissan is doing this because the
>>recession has forced them to re-evaluate the marketing aspect of their sports
>>car program.
>>
>   Will they be merely sponsoring a team, or will Nissan build a chassis
>and engine?

 	They will be building their own chassis and enigne, I would imagine.
The GTP car was built in California by Nissan Performance Technology, Inc.
with engines from Japan? (Can somebody expand on teh engine part?) Anyway,
NPTI has is a fully modern facility, with their own composite shop and CAD
stuff. They design the car there, and maybe even rebuild the engines. 


>   If they try to build their own car, I wonder if they'll have the same
>success as Porche and Alfa. :-) :-)  It's tough for a new kid on the
>block to break into the Indy playground.

	I wouldn't expect much more from them in the first year. Porsche
had a very good car designed, but CART did not change their rules regarding
all-carbon composite chassis, so they had to alter it- by replacing many 
pieces formerly made of CREP with aluminum. This caused the car to be slightly
overweight and through the weight distribution off as well. I would agree with
the Alfa being pretty bad. Oh, I meant that March had a good chassis designed
FOR Porsche not BY Porsche. Sorry...


>Harry Bloomberg
>hpb@vms.cis.pitt.edu

TOBY...

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: GR743@uacsc2.albany.edu (Greg Rickes)
Subject: Re: Petty Press Conference
Organization: University at Albany, Albany NY 12222
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 11:45:01 EST

>
>Does anyone have any information on the Press Conference
>that was supposed to be held yesterday?
>
>Shelley
 
Rick Wilson will drive the car, numbered 44, next year.
Wilson originally hailed from Bartow Florida, and had
several seasons of Winston Cup experience. His most
notable ride may have been the Kodak #4, where he
preceeded Ernie Irvan. RW just missed winning the
Firecracker 400 at Daytona in this car, losing to
Bill Elliott by just a few inches.
 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: comptec92070@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: F1: Tyrrell Announce Yamaha Deal
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 17:39:08 GMT

In article <10702296.18.721283112@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au>, 10702296@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (DECLAN MC) writes:
> In article <720921233.26440@minster.york.ac.uk> pete@minster.york.ac.uk writes:
>>: This makes four engines in four years for Tyrrell.  The deal is 
>>: for two years. Given that Yamaha's contract with Jordan was for 
>>: four years, and it lasted one, does this herald a mid-season
>>: engine swap for Ken's team ?  :-)
>>
>>Four engines in four years never hurt Toleman/Benetton much -- Hart, BMW, 
>>Cosworth turbo and DFR (1985-88)
> 
> Tyrell will be hurtin' heaps!
> Just look at what happened to the Jordan team this year, Tyrell will be  
> languishing among the back markers next season, wait and see!
> The Yamaha engine is a lemon, Jordan were glad to see the back of it.
> 
> Declan McCreesh


   Tyrrell's engines next year will not be the terrible Yamaha V12s, which
have been permanently shelved, but Yamaha badged and financed Judd V10s.
The Judd V10 showed reasonable competitiveness in its first year, with
Scuderia Italia in 1990, and should enable Uncle Ken's team to maintain
its current level of mid-field-occasional-points-scoring mediocrity.

   Sylvan Smyth.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport