Original_To:  BITNET%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
Original_cc:  HUTTER
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 09:47:00 N
From:         Wolfgang Hutter <HUTTER@DULRUU51.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Praying in tongues (was Re: centering prayer...)

In a message of Tue, 26 Jan 1993 05:23:28 GMT
Received on Wed, 27 Jan 1993 01:23 N
D. Keith Rice <drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu> wrote:

> I do not believe that the gift of tongues involves non-earthly
> tongues.

What abour 1Cor.13:1?

> I do not understand why people would desire to pray in tongues anyway since
> God understands all languages.

Simple: It's a convenient way to spend more time in prayer. If I pray
"with my mind" I can do no other job that requires mental capacities.
While praying in tongues ("in the Spirit") this is possible. In
addition: if I don't know what to pray for a specific situation I
frequently start to pray pray in tongues so the Spirit can pray through
me. This may sound confusing or strange. It took quite a while for me to
feel convenient about it. But now I find it very uplifting to practice
this kind of prayer.

In a message of Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:33:09 MST
Received on Wed, 27 Jan 1993 01:39 N
John R Laplante <jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> wrote:

>   I have some questions on this.
>   First of all, my position on this is in flux. I come from a church that
>   says 'it was only for the age when the bible wasn't written yet. now
>   that we have the complete bible, we don't need this, and it
>   stopped.'

I've heard this, too and often it is based on 1Cor.13:10 where it says:
"But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part
shall be done away.". But if you read the whole chapter you see what
Paul has in mind. Verse 8 says, "Charity never faileth: but whether
there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they
shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away."
So the things "in part" are: prophecy (most critics agree), tongues (I
hear a loud "Yeah!") and knowledge! (silence?). So I dare to say that
tongues will cease when the perfect (or should I capitalize it: the
Perfect One?) comes, which in my view is at the Second Coming of Christ.

>   Just a few questions that still trouble me:
>   1. I Cor 12-14 seems to say thaat there should be an interpretatioon if
>      there is to be a tongue. Yet whenever i've heard something (which
>      i interpret, if you will, as a tongue), there's no interpretation to
>     tell people what it means. And what if everyone bursts out all at once,
>      which frequently happens? how can there be interpretation then?

When a single person speaks in a tongue it should indeed be interpreted.
Paul says, "if there is no interpreter, let the one [who wants to speak
in tongues] keep silent." As for the common speaking in tongues: I think
that it doesn't need interpretation as well as it is impossible. Another
question would be: is it expedient? I don't know. We don't do it.

>  2. I can hear some say "aha! but you're confusing 'intelligible language'
>     kind of tongues from 'unintelligible language' kinds of tongues.
>     I don't get that from my reading of scripture, which leads me to
>    think that we are talking about natural languages, not a 'prayer
>     language.'

I mentioned earlier that there are tongues "of men and of angels". This
could be an indication to languages not spoken on earth. The other thing
is: how do you know whether some inhabitant of the South American jungle
speaks this very language or not? And: count numbers in Acts 2. It says
that, "they were all ... in one place" which according to Acts 1:15
would be about 120 people. The languages that are mentioned are 12. Now
this list need not be complete. There may have been other people who
understood still another language. And some of the speakers may indeed
have spoken in the same language. But it may well be possible that some
of them spoke a language which is not spoken on earth. - And again:
where is the difference between a language that you cannot tell and a
language which is not at all spoken on earth?

>  3.  i've heard somer people describe tongues as a way of private prayer.
>    but the purpose of spiritual gifts in the NT is to benefit others,
>   not yourself (well, ok, so you can use it to pray for other o people).
>    Again, i look at i cor 14 and see a problem -- it seems that it's meant
>    to be a way of God speaking to us, not for us to use in prayer to God.

Paul says that someone who speaks in a tongue speaks to God (1Cor14:2) -
not the other way around. And the content of the "tongue" is praise
(1Cor14:16f). And Paul even urges us to pray silently and speak to
ourselves and to God (1Cor.14:28) if there is no interpreter - which is
the case most of the time when I am alone. :-)

> againb, this is nbot meant to be a flame, or to be getting into a fight.
> just some 'doubter's questions.'

I was very suspicious for a long time. But as you have said: there are
three sources from where tongues can come. As I rule out the demonic
source for me and for all of my brethren in our church I have no
problems with it. We lay no stress upon tongues. If they are divine -
great. If they are human - well, no damage. I found out that much of the
division in the Body arises from this issue. It would be better if we'd
relax and take a child-like view.

Shalom,
Wolfgang <><
--
 Wolfgang Hutter <><, Abt. Chem. Phys., Uni Ulm
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