HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout)
Subject: Re: STOP Spreading Jewish Stereotypes!!
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:51:22 GMT

In <Dec17.010114.55602@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> mk568652@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Mitchell Kotler) writes:

>**************************************************************
>I RECENTLY HAD A "CONVERSATION" WITH MADDI HAUSMANN
>TELL ME   WHAT  YOU  THINK OF THIS MESS.
>[etc. deleted]

Yup, its a mess alright!  Especially since we've seen this posting
for the 50th time.

We got your drift Mitchell!
--
Eli Chiprout                 
Dept. of Electronics, 
Carleton University, Canada
emc@doe.carleton.ca                                     
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Inquiry
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:43:47 GMT

muskudar@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu (Michael Uskudarli) writes:

> 1) I was told by a muslim that a muslim can eat anything that is Kosher for
> a jewish person. Ias this true? If it is I am dumbfounded. Thinking that for
> a person (muslim) who regards another person ( a jew) as an arch enemy
> and than to claim that since the torah was actually correct at first and
> than corrupted that they can eat what you can. Do you find this utterly
> weird?

My understanding is that, while halal meats are preferred in Islam,
kosher meats are a suitable substitute when halal is not available.
If I'm not mistaken, Muslims require that meat be slaughtered with
"the name of G-d."  I'm not quite sure exactly what that means, but
apparently we do it and Christians don't.

Muslims don't have the same prohibitions that Jews do with respect
to other meats or seafood, though.  So if they partake of kosher foods
only, they may be missing out on other acceptable elements (or aliments)
in their diet.  I believe the only exception here is alcohol.  A kosher
dish may be laced with the stuff and still maintain its kosher status,
but it now becomes forbidden to a Muslim.

As for enemies, well, that's life.  There were times when the Jews
and Muslims were quite friendly, as in Midieval Spain, for instance.
Much of this is politics, which is often intertwined with religion.
But it doesn't change the fact that their law and ours are compatible
in certain areas.

Just to pick a nit, though.  As to Jews and Muslims being enemies,
I would have to take issue with that approach.  I have no problems
with Islam, per se, and I would hope Muslims have no problems with
Judaism, per se.  I have a problem with the politics of many
(predominantly or officially) Muslim nations and organizations.
I would expect that many Muslims (and others) have similar problems
with the Jewish counterparts.  (I may even fit into this category
as well.)  Do I think all Muslims and all Jews are careful to
focus their distaste appropriately?  No more than I expect any
other group to.

> 2) Have you read the book by Victor Ostrovsky " By way of deception"

No.

> 3) Is it true that in order to be a Jew, you must be born into it?

No.  According to Jewish law (Halakha) one becomes a Jew either
by being born to a Jewish woman, or by converting according to
this same law.

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel)
Subject: Re: How to crochet kippot (summary -LONG)
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:24:16 GMT

In article <Pine.3.05.9212160047.A3021-a100000@alsys1> <Seth Ness <ness@aecom.yu.edu>> writes:
>several years ago i saw for the first and only time in my life, a kippah
>where the entire base was a picture, not just a strip along the edge( this
>is crocheted, not painted) This one was an indian bonnet, with the face on
>one side and the feathers extending across to the other side. i imagine
>that this was incredibly hard to design and knit, but it was amazing
>looking. does anyone know anything about this type of design?

Designing it would be tricky but it wouldn't be any harder to crochet than
any other kippah.  What I would do is draw the design on polar
graph paper in order to make a circular grid, with extra lines for increases.
Once it was drawn, following the pattern would be trivial for those who know
how to crochet well.  

Miriam Nadel
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Shabbat question
Date: 13 Dec 92 15:31:05 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)

In article <1992Dec11.162040.9056@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, jgoldber@todah (Joel Goldberg) writes:
>Andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>>  Bicycle riding is definitely allowed in your appartment, but on a road,
>>certain unpaved, but possibly even if paved, your wheels would plough the
>>ground. No ploughing on Shabbath.

I didn't respond to this because I thought it was sarcastic, but I see
people are taking it seriously.  Bicycles are muktzeh.  Riding them in
your apartment is just as forbidden as riding them outside.

>  This holds too for baby carriages/strollers and wheelchairs, which are
>permitted. It was suggested that the differnce is that a broken down
>carriage or wheelchair still preserves some function, while a bicyle
>doesn't, because one can still sit in the C or WC (!) but not on the
>bike. Question 1) what about three wheel bikes?

I recall, vaguely, that tricycles are not muktzeh.  I'm not sure if this
is because children are the usual riders or no one cares if they break or
because they can still provide a seat.

>						 Question 2) One can't
>really sit in a broken down wheelchair.

That's not true.  Perhaps you should talk to some wheelchair bound folk
about life when it breaks down.  Sometimes they stay in the chair.  For
hours.

>  More precisely, the prohibition against  a bicycle is that if it
>breaks down, one might be tempted to either carry it or fix it. If
>a wheelchair breaks down, the same temptations (and they are stronger
>ones even) hold too.

But the usual riders are often not in a position to carry it or to make
the repairs.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Entertaining suggestions for responses to "Merry Christmas"
Date: 12 Dec 1992 18:44:40 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

aliki@nova1.stanford.edu (Alexandra Schmidt) writes:

>on the receiving end of Christmas wishes

You can pre-emp them by wishing people a Happy Hannukka.  After all, 
Hannukkah comes first!

If it's a problem at work (an you want to advertise) you might
try putting a drawing of a menorah on your office door.  One drawn
by a small child works best.

						--  Michal


-- 

                                                --  Michal

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Kahane's philosophy
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:01:01 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.154623.5924@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>In article <3020@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
># And they are not to be "expelled" if they agree to surrender
># civil rights including the right to vote.  If another country did this
># to Jews, would we not protest?
>
>	We probably would protest.  However, Israel is a Jewish State.  It
>seems to me as if (again, if I am wrong I apologize in advance but
>please tell me why) you are willing to sacrifice that so as not to
>bring in a condition that you would protest if it took place in
>another country.  I have no prblem with keeping Israel as a Jewish
>State even if it would mean creating that condition.
  Here David expresses one of the cornerstones of the Kach philosophy,
  which is that there is no intrinsic value in having a democratic 
  government.
From: jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: What does Hanukkah commemorate?
Date: 20 Dec 1992 02:17:21 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/trn/lib/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu

In article <57803@dime.cs.umass.edu> krovetz@cs.umass.edu (Bob Krovetz) writes:
>Does the Talmud say how Channukah is to be celebrated?  Was
>it even considered a holiday during that time?  When were
>chanukiah's first used?

The sources for the laws regarding Hannukah and Hannukiot are
distributed over a number of works that range from pre-Talmudic to
post-Talmudic. There is little question that the holiday was
observed by lighting lamps of one sort or another from quite early
times. Josephus names the holiday "lights" (phota). The holiday is
discussed in scholion to Megilat Ta'anit, a fascinating document
which dates to the 1st century CE and concerning which there is
much interesting scholarly debate.
 
The precise rules for lighting the Hannukiah are derived from a
baraita (a piece of tradition which dates from the period of the
Tanaim, ca 250 CE) and various statements in the Gemara. The most
frequent references are to material found in a treatise known as
Soferim, which some regard as Talmudic, but most regard as post-
Talmudic.
 
You can find adequate discussion of these issues in the
Encyclopedia Judaica, along with a decent article on the subject of
Hannukah lamps.
 
Hope this helps.
-- 
________________________________________
Jack F. Love	| 	Opinions expressed are mine alone.
		|	(Unless you happen to agree.)
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Skoll and "netiquitte"
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:43:15 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)

In article <dfs.724618376@sybok>, dfs@doe (David F. Skoll) writes:
>> Mr Skoll, please stop sending me e-mail. I don't read it and I don't
>> want it!

>Well, "Andy", if you post a public denunciation of me on scj, calling
>me names in front of the entire scj community, I will send you e-mail
>to keep the discussion OFF scj.

I've had similar problems with Andy Bratu.  He expects the right to be
insulting without you replying.  If you do, it's harassment.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout)
Subject: Re: A really important Hanuka question
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:25:50 GMT

In <1992Dec15.205112.29755@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> bfoo_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Brian E. Foont) writes:

>You might try putting you box of candles in the freezer.  This may sound
>stupid, but my landlady doubted the effectiveness of this during 
>Chanukah last year, and so we conducted an experient, and found that 
>the ones that had been frozen tended to last about 50% longer, i.e.
>the room temperature ones lasted about 24 minutes, and the frozen ones
>lasted 36 minutes.

That explains why Hannukah lasts longer up here in Canada!

--
Eli Chiprout                 
Dept. of Electronics, 
Carleton University, Canada
emc@doe.carleton.ca
From: jmunch@hertz.elee.calpoly.edu (John Munch)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Here we go again
Keywords: annoying messianics and missionaries
Date: 19 Dec 92 21:58:31 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo

Quoting saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal):
>
>Has it been 2 months already?  I was sure it was less time than that.
>Two months is about all the respite we get on SCJ before another
>missionary discovers SCJ and all us "Jews bound for hell" unless we
>accept good 'ol GeeWhiz.  Oy Vey.  When will they learn?  More
>importantly, how can we get them to stay away?
>
>This is not a call for a moderator, but wouldn't it be nice if these
>fahkockedeh, fahblunged (sorry my Yiddish accent is not so good)
>missionaries would just leave us alone....
>-- 
>Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
>	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton

On alt.atheism we have a regular posting of a FAQ file.(frequently asked
questions) Assuming people are polite enough to read it when they first
find our group, it cuts down on a lot of repetative prostelization. Often
people really do have a simple question about atheism, so it helps then too.

                        -John David Munch
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: d_ellis@ricks.enet.dec.com (David Ellis  11-Dec-1992 0848)
Subject: Re: Maccabee names
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 05:48:37 PST
X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA08371; Fri, 11 Dec 92 05:48:38 -0800
X-Received: by enet-gw.pa.dec.com; id AA00191; Fri, 11 Dec 92 05:48:37 -0800
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X-To: soc.culture.jewish.usenet
X-Apparently-To: soc.culture.jewish.usenet

em@cvs.rochester.edu (Ethan Montag) writes:

> Everyone knows Judah Maccabee.  What are the names of his brothers?

From my (possibly faulty) memory:

Yohanan, Jonathan, Simeon and Elazar.

----
David  J  Ellis
Digital Equipment Corporation,          Semiconductor Engineering Group
77 Reed Road, Hudson MA 01749           Mailstop HLO2-3/D11         
Internet: d_ellis@ricks.enet.dec.com    Phone: (508) 568-4393 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller)
Subject: Re: If I were Prime Minister
Organization: Trinity College, Hartford, CT.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 01:45:36 GMT

In article <9212151426.AA29193@helix.nih.gov> <norm@helix.nih.gov(Norm Friedman)
> writes:
>Re: the latest murder of an Israeli.  After hearing about the latest
>kidnapping and murder of the Border Policeman, if I were Prime Minister for
>the day, I would authorize the immediated PUBLIC HANGING OF THE SHIEK.

Don't you want to draw-and-quarter him first?

Norman Miller


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: mark@fenris.albany.edu (Mark Steinberger)
Subject: Re: JforJ ad in Newsweek
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 19:56:12 GMT

In article <102335@netnews.upenn.edu> shawn@up.hep.upenn.edu (Shawn Ruby) writes:
>Anybody see that Jews for Jesus ad in Newsweek?  They must have more
>money than I thought to pay for a full page spread like that.

Has anyone thought about boycotting the publishers of this material?


--Mark
From: aliki@nova1.stanford.edu (Alexandra Schmidt)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: kashrut howls
Date: 18 Dec 1992 17:00:59 GMT
Organization: Stanford University
NNTP-Posting-Host: nova1.stanford.edu

I can CMLOR, but if anyone happens to know offhand. . .
Last night we accidentally (of course!) washed a fleishig pot with a 
dairy sponge.  I assume the former now has to be re-kashered?  Not 100%
sure about this (if we'd put dairy food into it, I'd have no question about
that, but if it's a clean but-not-new sponge used for dairy utensils--?).

Sigh.

			. . .Alexandra



Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
From: aliki@nova1.stanford.edu (Alexandra Schmidt)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Question on "Jewish mother = jewish children"
Date: 16 Dec 1992 23:26:18 GMT
Organization: Stanford University
NNTP-Posting-Host: nova1.stanford.edu


Michal asks a good question, and I'll add my own--

How about the adopted child of Jewish parents?  Does the child need to
convert (presumably at a later age)?  In the meantime, if the parents
raise the child as a practicing Jew, does the child have a Bar Mitzvah 
at 13?  Convert at 12.5?  

There's got to be an interpretation on this.  I hope I never *need* to know, 
but for now am curious.

			. . .Alexandra

"I could be sterile.  It runs in my family!" (from 'Singles')


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (David Kaufmann)
Subject: Re: The difference between a chasid and a misnagid
Organization: E.E. Dept., Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 04:43:00 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-23802]: bourbon


Sean writes:
Hasidim?  Misnagdim?
     
IT'S ALL POTATOES!  Let's all sit together as one family, already!

But some only eat their potatoes mashed, while others prefer them
baked.

Seriously, there are no more misnagdim in the original usage of the
term, because the opposition was to supposed violations of Jewish law.
When the chassidim proved themselves not to be heretical, the
antagonism largely disappeared and both groups cooperated greatly in
communal affairs.

And as a chasid, I must say I find no problem with some good-natured
teasing and ribbing now and then. The key is to respect each other.
With that, we can smile with each other. I took Matt's posts in this
spirit and assume he took mine in the same way. 

With Ahavat Yisroel, we may laugh together. Without it, we will cry
apart.

David Kaufmann
INTERNET:	david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: The Dispersion (Vijay's Mishegoss)
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:56:44
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk's message of 15 Dec 92 13:08:00 GMT

In article <memo.810578@cix.compulink.co.uk> stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk (Stephen Phillips) writes:

   In-Reply-To: <1992Dec14.194805.25403@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk> ucakrvb@ucl.ac.uk (Vijay Bhuchar)

   > A number of you asked me to qualify my remark that the cause 
   > of the dispersion was the rejection of Jesus.
   > 
   > I am sure that you know there were only 40 years between the cross
   > and the destruction of the temple.
   > 
   > Consider these Talmud entries:
...
   > I am curious to see what EXCUSES you crazy Orthodox come up with now.

   This is blatant discrimination. What about the crazy Conservative and
   Reform?  I'm sure they think just the same as the Orthodox about this
   bullsh*t.

   **** off, will you.

Hey!  Don't leave us crazy secular Jews out of it, either!

At last, something we can all agree on.
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write lpf@uunet.uu.net
From: horen@netcom.com (Jonathan B. Horen -- [408] 736-3923)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Excerpts From a Reader's Letter-to-the-Editor
Date: 20 Dec 92 21:40:41 GMT
Organization: NetCom -- OnLine Communication Services

In the Perspective section of today's San Jose Mercury-News, a
letter-to-the-editor by one reader, a Rabbi Daniel Pressman,
was printed, in which he responds to another reader's letter
that appeared the previous Sunday (13 Dec 92), by one Cal Thomas.
In his letter, Mr. Thomas complained that "Americans are doing
what they can to wipe out religion from the public schools,"
and that requiring schools to be religiously-neutral is an
effort "to keep many people from exercising their religious
and free-speech rights."

In his response, Rabbi Pressman writes:

   "I urge Thomas, and anyone who agrees with him, to
   imagine what it is like to be a Jewish child, or any
   non-Xian, in an elementary classroom where the techer
   makes the children write a letter to Santa Claus, or
   has them sing songs of an explicitly Xian nature. Even
   if the teacher is aware enough to say, `David, you
   don't have to do this,' the class has been given a
   message: David is different; he's not one of us.

   There was even one teacher who told the class to wear
   red and green on the dy before winter vacation, and
   then said to the Jewish child, `You can wear blue and
   white.' WHY DIDN'T SHE JUST HAVE HIM WEAR A YELLOW STAR?"

My children are fortunate enough to be living in Eretz Yisrael,
and do not have to face this kind of mental/emotional mind-
f*cking in school (or on elevision, radio, or in stores).
For those of you whose children are less-fortunate, try and
remember that they, too, have rights in America, and that
they and their rights must be protected -- by you, their
parents.

It's Hannukah -- let it be *our* choice if, when, and where
we will wear yellow stars.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout)
Subject: Re: atonement thru death of righteous person
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 02:16:27 GMT

In <1gaoa6INNlj0@coral.bucknell.edu> () writes:
>is it a valid JEWISH concept that the death of a righteous person will
>expiate the sins of an entire generation,and if so,where does scripture
>affirm such aprinciple

I don't know about death, but there used to be a medeival Jewish idea  (although
I am not sure that it is still around) that there are certain righteous
men in the world who suffer and suffer and suffer for the rest of mankind.
There are somehow born to bear the suffering of many.
The numbers of these individuals were always vague.  I don't have the references
on hand but I got this from a prof at the Hebrew University.  Does anyone know
any more?

>michael
--
Eli Chiprout                 
Dept. of Electronics, 
Carleton University, Canada
emc@doe.carleton.ca                                     
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Entertaining suggestions for responses to "Merry Christmas"
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:55:26 GMT

strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

> As for a greeting to other Jews who are at least trivially literate
> in a few Hebrew phrases, I think that Chanukah Sameach is an
> artificiality that, as you imply, sounds odd on the ears. Chag
> Sameach, however, does not, is in heavy usage otherwise, and
> since there isn't anything else around Chanukah time won't be
> misinterpreted. It has the additional advantage that you pick
> up a few Hebrew-speaking Christians with it, if you should guess
> wrong. Thus it would be equally appropriate, I'd suspect, to use
> with Christians in Israel.
> 
> oops. Do Moslems have a holiday around now? If not, forget my
> remarks about "everybody with the possible exception of a few
> hard-core athiests".

I suppose the Muslim festival Id al Fitr, which occurs at the close
of the month of Ramadan, coincides with the last days of Chanukkah
roughly every 32-33 years.

-Don Gertler
From: jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: The Crucifixion Prophecy
Date: 12 Dec 1992 23:10:29 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/trn/lib/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu

In article <1992Dec12.184649.12289@colorado.edu> wouk@alumni.cs.colorado.edu (Arthur Wouk) writes:
> in order to get at the contents of the header
>OTHER than the subject line you need
>/missionary's name/h:j  
>if you want the whole article subject to a search, the you write:
>/missionary's name/a:j  
>here is my KILL file entry at the moment:
>/buchar\|sera/h:j
>i think this gets rid of the mad turk as well as the latest messianic
>fool. (i believe it is buchar who is the latest messianic. i
>forget.) (notice how to concatenate two searches into one. saves a
>lot of time. limit seems to be five on my system in one search
>pattern. your mileage may vary.)
>
>if you want all jesus references removed from perusal then
>
>/jesus/a:j
>
>will do it

Thanks Arthur. Now we need a voluteer who will repeat the gist
of your comment whenever we get bombarded. I may not know 
myself since I intend to add one of your suggestions to my
kill file. :-)

Jack F. Love