From: woodhous@latcs2.lat.oz.au (Joe P Woodhouse)
Newsgroups: alt.polyamory
Subject: love and freedom (was Re: poly-wired?)
Date: 18 Aug 92 02:01:06 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

[Time for my next round of posts - I do hope I'm not drowning out anyone's
 voice...]

zen@death.corp.sun.com (d) writes:
>woodhous@latcs2.lat.oz.au (Joe P Woodhouse) writes:
>> Monogamy is about declaring to
>> a partner "No matter how much you love me, you are *not allowed* to love
>> anyone else without getting in heaps of trouble and probably breaking
>> up with me". Not a very loving thing to say, is it?
>
>  To some people it's about the most loving thing you can say to another
>person.  Don't forget that freedom of partner(s) (or many other things)
>is not a prerequisite for happiness for many people, and that some/many
>religions say that polygamy, polyamory, anything non-monogomous is not
>only wrong, but against the commandments of their (various?) 
>[Gg]od{ess}(s).

   I guess I must be reading this the wrong way.

   My first reaction on reading this is to jump up and down and exclaim
"surely you can't be serious"! (But stop calling me Shirley...sorry 8->).

   I'll try to explain this. "The most loving thing one can say to another"
is "too bad, only one love at a time for you"?!? It's loving to say "Your
freedom is *not* an issue for me"?!? 

   Maybe this will explain it better. How do people feel about saying to
a friend "You may not have any other friends than me"? Sure, most reply
that "that's different", and I agree - I think it's very different : 
surely our loved ones are *equally or more* important to us (and we have
an equal or greater committment to treating them well) than friends, so
how come this is not OK to say to friends (I don't think too many would
agree it *was* OK), but it's fine to say to loved ones, equal to or
greater than friends?

   My biases are speaking here, but I simply *cannot* imagine a love that
does not value the freedom of the loved one. Freedom from obligation.
Freedom from oppression. Freedom from unpleasantness. Freedom to live a
life that looks outward on a greater vista, not inwards to a gilded cage.

   Let me qualify that. I'm *not* saying I think monogamous love is not
really love, or anything like that. I do think *enforced* monogamy must
go through mental acrobatics to reconcile love with loss of freedom.

   So for example I'm *not* against the following scene :

Monogamous partner : Hon, I'm really troubled by the idea of you sharing
  intimacy with others. I'm sorry for this, and I'm trying to make it
  not become a problem in our relationship. I'd like your understanding
  that one way or another, this is a charged issue for me, and so I'm
  bound to get uptight about it at times, but look - I really love you,
  and I want what's right for you. I hope we can work something out that
  doesn't involve denying or oppressing either of us.

Poly partner : Gee, thanks for telling me about this. Now I know, I can
  make truly maximally informed decisions. Perhaps the answer for the
  time being is for me *not* to actively go seeking other partners, but
  hey, love happens. I can't promise that it won't, but I'm aware that
  you can be bothered about this, so I'm willing to do a lot towards
  making sure your concerns are addressed to your satisfaction. I *don't*
  want to hurt you, but I'm glad you've recognized that denying any love
  (or even lust) I might feel for others could be a very hurtful thing to
  have to do.

Mono partner : That's right, love. There's no easy answers, but I'm really
  trying to be fair to you. I don't want to hurt you either, but I think
  our relationship would be really damaged if I was anything less than
  honest with you about these feelings I have. I feel a lot better already
  since you're obviously taking me seriously, and respecting my pain.

[...etc...]

   So again, I'm specifically not claiming I think monogamous love is
"inferior" to Poly love. (Yes, I'm bending over backwards being careful,
but people could get - understandably! - very cranky if I didn't make
this clear).

Joe.

  / Joe Woodhouse        / I'm just a sweet bisexual...   / Hello, there.
 / Latrobe University   /    (think - Rocky Horror)      / Threesomes are fun.
/ Melbourne, Australia / Music. Magic. Mathematics. Me. / I like cats! (miaow!)