HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Subject: Re: No discrimination and fascism in Estonia!
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 08:41:24 GMT

In article <1inqtlINN7r8@morrow.stanford.edu>, mihai@sep.Stanford.EDU (Alexander Mihai Popovici) writes:
> In article <1993Jan9.225123.26882@enea.se>, sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
> |> 
> |> Where, where have I said this?
> |> 
> |> Just for the record, I don't subscribe to the opinion which the
> |> great liar Sergei Viznyuk tries to put in my mouth. And anyone
> |> who have read postings where I have criticized Estonian legislation
> |> knows this. Even Viznuyk, unless he is a complete illiterate idiot.
> 
> Unfortunately, without doubt, he is!
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Mihai


I do not agree. I think he is a war monger instead - he understands our postings
but does not care about any arguments put before him (which is clever:
accepting the argumentation might be fatal for his war propaganda). And, being 
a Soviet army official (as he once said in his postings) it might be even
profitable to him.


- Tapani Hietaniemi
  a conscientious objector from Helsinki, Finland

Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:11800 soc.culture.europe:11002 talk.politics.soviet:10213
From: muh@physics1 (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Bilingualism
Date: 4 Jan 1993 22:38:25 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics1.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec31.161143.11815@cs.chalmers.se> tammet@cs.chalmers.se (Tanel Tammet) writes:
>
>1) Politicians (and ordinary folks) in Russia will get a new,
>very strong reason to consider Estonia as a country where
>Russian dominance would be a natural thing to reintroduce - they
>even have Russian as one of the official languages, don't they?
>Both in a short and long run this will be very dangerous to Estonia.
>
>2) The same goes for the other countries, unfortunately,
>who will find it only too easy to associate Estonia with the Russian
>empire again - well, they speak Russian and some small local language.
>

Some other suggestions:
1. Swiss swuitches to Hindi and Suachili, not to be mixed with nearby Garmany
and France.
2. Austria switches to mumbu-umbu, for same reason.
3. England switches from American to ..., what about latin.
4. India bans English as oficcial language.

Yury M.
.
From: LANDSBERG@sbhep2.phy.sunysb.edu (Greg Landsberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: First astronaut?
Date: 4 Jan 93 20:22:36 GMT
Organization: SUNY at Stony Brook
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <93004.124821X30KB@CUNYVM.BITNET> X30KB@CUNYVM.BITNET writes:

>          My step-grandfather was colonel in soviet air-force intelligence
>  (or something like that). He told me once that Gagarin was not the first
> astronaut ever. Supposedly there was another one before him - I believe, that
> one's last name was Bondarenko, but his ship exploded on start.
>      Does anyone knows something about it?
>                           *** TimeLord ***

Yes,  I  heard  exactly  the  same  story. I  don't  know  the name  of the
astronaut,    however.  What I   heard is  that   several  days  before the
announcement of the successful  flight by Gagarin, some VIP's were informed
that the first  man-operated starship has been  launched. 

I know  that story  from my  father who  had an  audience in  the office of
Alikhanov,    former   director  of the    Institute for    Theoretical and
Experimental Physics in  Moscow. During the  audience Alikhanov got a phone
call; his faced changed  and he told my father  that the first man has been
launched in space.

Several days later the whole country greeted Gagarin...

Greg
From: mam18@jaguar.uofs.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: some Soviet emigre restaurant jokes
Date: 11 Jan 93 21:49:52 GMT
Organization: University of Scranton

In article <93007.013227DLVGC@CUNYVM.BITNET>, DLVGC@CUNYVM.BITNET 
(Dimitri Vulis) writes the following shit:

[..some deleted as obscenety..]

> Tozhe mne, intelligentsiya hueva. :)
> 
> S glubokim prezreniem,
> Dima Vulis

A ne poshel by ty, Dima, na khui, da pobystree?

Etot sosunok eshche ukazyvat' budet kak materit'sia.  Naglets i nevezha!

Michael Martynov.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu
Subject: <None>
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 00:57:53 GMT

Christmas is a old atleast in some parts of the world a old holiday to have
nothing to do with Jesus Christ but more to do with the rebirth of the SUN.. 

We must remember that the Winter Solstice is Dec 21, and the day that the sun
starts to be noticibly to have risen is around the 25th of December..
Basically people got together to celebrate and to pray fo the sun to rise...

Father Frost, possible connect with Santa Clause or is that Saint Nicholas..

Lately some scientist have figured that if Jesus existed, he was more than
liekly was born around Jun or Jul 5BC.. But it is a matter of faith..

Some would have you believe that Santa Claus is Satan. Well bah humbug.

Happy Orthodox Christmass...
Jan 7th.

==
==
Michael Adams alias Ghost Wheel/Morgoth NSMCA@acad3.alaska.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: sheli@nsipo.arc.nasa.gov
Subject: NPO energia
Summary: Where is NPO energia? In Moscow?
Organization: nsipo
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 00:48:42 GMT

Where is NPO energia located?  In Moscow?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: frants@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Leonid Frants)
Subject: Re: USA source for videos of Russian movies?
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:36:47 GMT

In article <93012.095011ICBAL@ASUACAD.BITNET> <ICBAL@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:
>Does anyone know of a good American mail-order source for videos of Russian
>movies? English sub-titles would be nice, but not necessary.  The standard
>video catalog available in most video stores only has about a dozen titles.
>I know the Kamkin bookstore has another handful of titles.  Does anyone
>know of a good source, both of the "classics" (such as War and Peace--not the
>short dubbed version) and the more recent films?
>
>Bruce Long
>Arizona State University  icbal@asuvm.inre.asu.edu


I wonder if you can try an interlibrary loan from another university
as you can do with books. I know that our library here at Stanford has
a couple of hundred titles including a lot of "classics".

Just a guess,

Leonid.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: kilman2y@fiu.edu (Yevgeny Kilman)
Subject: Re: some Soviet emigre restaurant jokes
Organization: Florida International University, Miami
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:45:22 GMT

In article <93007.013227DLVGC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Dimitri Vulis <DLVGC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>Netu u was, gospoda, togo chuvstva russkogo yazyka, kotorue estx
>dazhe u rasposlednej brajtonskoj blyadi.   Bylo by delo na brajtone,
>davno by uzhe slyzhalos':  ah ty suka, blyad', petyh toptannyj,
>vertukhaj poganyj (VV), shob tebe vek velfera ne vidat'!
>Esli uzh vy sobralisx pisat' svoi flames na velikom i moguchem,
>tak nauchites' matyugat'sya po-nashemu, po-brajtonski.
>
>Tozhe mne, intelligentsiya hueva. :)
>
>S glubokim prezreniem,
>Dima Vulis

To to i vidno chto eto uebishe peresranoe, eta pizdoproebina bladushaia 
jivet na braitone, gde vsakie jertvi abortov nagulivaut jirok na velfere.
A kto velfer im platit? Mi, gospoda! Iz nashih taksov etu padol' korm'at!

S glubokoi nenevist'u.
Y.K.
From: esuleym@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: stop violence
Date: 8 Jan 93 12:38:59 EST
Keywords: protest
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services


First of all I wanted to express my simpathy with victims of January,13,in
Vilnius.In that time,after soviet army killed people on the streets of Baku in
January,20,we could understand our Lithuanian brothers very well.Today we must
sorry about all victims of Soviet militarists in Vilnius,in Baku,in Alma-ata,in
Tbilisi,in Moscow and many other places.And also it is our duty to do something
to stop Serbians.Please,let's do some kind of protest actions against war in
Bosnia.I am waiting for you ideas.
Elin.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:18:58 EST
From: <BAV2@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Soc.Culture.Soviet (was Re: some Soviet emigre restaurant jokes)
 <93008.100028BAV2@psuvm.psu.edu> <1ikjor$5ul@agate.berkeley.edu>

In article <1ikjor$5ul@agate.berkeley.edu>, muh@physics2 (Yury M. Mukharsky)
says:
>
>In article <93008.100028BAV2@psuvm.psu.edu> <BAV2@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>>
>>It really proves that the soc.culture.soviet exists - not a newsgroup,
>>but a socio-cultural phenomenon. We must try hard to part with it.
>
>What makes you think so? I myself prefere what you would call "soviet" and
>other may call "italian" or "french" style of discussion to "american" one.
>It's more fun with about same result. Actually maybe with more result, as
>I do not think that "You think so? Than it's right, calm down calm down"
>style is very effective exept with asylum escapees. Anyway, the fact that you
>are reading this...
>
>Yury M.


Dear Yuri, this is not a style of discussion. (And a bad style, BTW).
This is a style of life. This disrespect to other's personality and
feelings is just a symtom of something more serious - disrespect to
other's freedom and dignity - and finally to one's own freedom and
dignity. I shall not discuss what is to blame - Russian history,
Communists or something other. This phenomenon exists, I know that, you
know that, Mr Kilman knows that (even if somebody denies it).

Have you ever thought why we - with a superior education system (just
compare it to the American one!), a best literature history in the world
(except, maybe, Hebrew or old Chineese), a lot of talented people etc -
why we are in such a condition now? Is there any influence of this
lifestyle?



And why I'm reding this? Well, I'm not of Sakhara Desert origin.

-Boris
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:11941 soc.culture.europe:11079 talk.politics.soviet:10308
From: solodov@monterey1.cs.wisc.edu (Mikhail V. Solodov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Bilingualism - a good cause!
Date: 8 Jan 93 20:19:24 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.


    Funny and rather chacteristic of the audience involved -
    In all this long discussion nobody yet mentioned that the
Russian language is connected to one of the greatest cultures
of mankind. The latter is long and universally acknowledged.
This is not intended to downplay the importance of
national (e.g. Estonian or whatever) culture. However, you can't
compare its influence on civilization with that of Russian.
Many Estonians have some knowledge of Russian - good for them !
And you know, if their young ones won't lose it , it will only
be to their advantage, really ! It won't hurt to be able to benefit
from reading in the original language Tolstoi, Dostoevskii and others.
Michael.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 10:00:17 EST
From: <BAV2@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Soc.Culture.Soviet (was Re: some Soviet emigre restaurant jokes)
 <93008.151858BAV2@psuvm.psu.edu> <104101@netnews.upenn.edu>

I initiated this discussion, so I hope I may make a couple of comments.

First, personal. Somebody called me a chauvinist. Ok, I was called a
Rusofob previously, so it's nice to hear. (A friend of mine was called
an Ukrainian nationalist and an anti-Ukrainian - by same people).

This name I obtained   because of my praise of the Russian classic
literature and Soviet education system. I'm not a specialist in the
literature; I thought what I said is a general opinion. I still think Russian
literature of 19 - beginning of 20 century is a unique phenomenon. I
worked in the education system however, and when I call ours superior I
speak as a specialist in this field. (BTW, it is becouse of our
education a lot of us are here). It gives a superb background in natural
sciences (and our special math/phys schools!) and a very good general
education. Yes, it has a lot of lacunes due to ideology, but it is much
better that the American one. To check it just see the records of our
emigrees in high schools. Or speak with an American.


A lot of people think that I condemn four-letter words. To prove the
opposite I'd like to quote Igor GUBERMAN's verse (please do not read if
you can be offended):


       Davno pora, yebena mat',
       Umom Rossiyu ponimat'!

There is a side branch of this discussion, whose ancestors sat on the
trees, and whose founded Universities. I would not like to discuss
pedigree, but as I remember, American Universities were opened even
later then ours. You want to say that the pioneers were from Europe? But
did they visited European Universities before mounting their ships? Or,
even more vivid, do you know who founded Australian state?

Somebody argues, that there is no  a special flavor in our discussions,
and you can even read curses in other groups or meet an idiot on a
highway. There is a lot of idiots or rougues everywhere, but I spoke
about the general air. To understand what I mean just read a couple of
articles in s.c.japan or s.c.french  (please don't throw SOME articles
from these newsgroupsd on me).

To make it short. I think we are going through national catastrophe
(everybody agrees?). Therefore we must understand and revise our
cultural heritage - no other way out. The attitude to personal values
and personal dignity must be revised and changed. And this attitude is
in OUR - mine, yours, his, hers - background. And s.c.soviet proves it
clearly. Any contradictions?

-Boris

Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:11846 soc.culture.europe:11030 talk.politics.soviet:10255
From: solodov@monterey1.cs.wisc.edu (Mikhail V. Solodov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Bilingualism - a good cause!
Date: 9 Jan 93 00:17:19 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.

In article <1ikisd$5o0@agate.berkeley.edu> muh@physics2 (Yury M. Mukharsky) writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.153654.8861@cs.chalmers.se> tammet@cs.chalmers.se (Tanel Tammet) writes:
>>
>>Completely agreed. You define greateness as size. All
>>physically small cultures have to defend themselves.
>>Even relatively large cultures like French are concerned.
>
>Here is story about academician Kapitza. 
>
>He had a habbit to keep complited work in the desk, to check it with time.
>He also required this from other people in his Institute. As a result there
>was substantial delay between finishing the work and publishing, as you can
>not publish without approval of science council. 
>
>So, once of scientist came to Kapitza, complaining that somebody repeated 
>result he obtained a year ago, but have not published yet, due to the policy.
>Kapitza replied:
>
>What, only a year and somebody was able to repeat your experiment? Then
>it was not worth of regret.
>
>Yury M.

  this is really a good one. it will be interesting to see
  how many folks out there will actually get it and how many will
  think that they did (the latter will flame you).
  Michael.
From: muh@physics1 (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Soc.Culture.Soviet
Date: 9 Jan 1993 21:42:45 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics1.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan9.023041.19136@husc3.harvard.edu> zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) writes:
>if "War and Peace", or, for that matter, Brezhnev's prize-winning
>opus, has had more of a press run than "Mein Kampf".

Maybe, but influence, influence.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: alexeev@math.utah.edu (Valery A. Alexeev)
Subject: Re: digest of relcom.humor (take 3)
Organization: Department of Mathematics, University of Utah
	<ALEXEEV.93Jan4200916@solitude.math.utah.edu>
Distribution: soc
Date: 4 Jan 93 20:12:11

I am giving up. Just take my word that was a r-real funny joke.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:11920 soc.culture.europe:11064 talk.politics.soviet:10294
From: mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Bilingualism - a good cause!
Date: 8 Jan 93 12:39:46 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

In article <1993Jan7.164927.1@cc.helsinki.fi> thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi writes:
>
>In article <1993Jan7.113100.28196@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk
>(Matthew Huntbach) writes:
>> In article <1993Jan7.083616.15949@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>>>Matthew Huntbach (mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk) wrote:
>>>So you compare the asians of London with the russians of Estonia?
>>
>> Well, if I were to advocate treating Asians in the UK in the
>> same way that Russians in Estonia are being treated, I would be
>> accused of being a racist and fascist.
>
>You are yourself accusing Estonias of being racists and fascists.
>And even without any argument. Which is a pity.

I was very careful to say "Estonia", meaning the government,
rather than "Estonians" meaning the people. Clearly it would be
wrong to say that individual Estonians are necessarily guilty
of the prejudfice shown by their government.

>The Russian language was the leading language in Estonian Socialist Soviet
>Republic. The Soviet Union came to the country as an occupator and
>the most important political offices were given to Soviet-educated
>Soviet citizens, sometimes to sovietized Estonians.

Yes, I can very well understand why Estonians might feel
bitterness against Russians, but I do not see this as a
justification for reverse discrimination.

>And the position of Russian language in Estonia is still a strong one.
>It's the Estonians that have received in last years the right to
>use Estonian in all situations in everyday life, like in all shops,
>visiting doctor and in railway stations.

Yes, and I would fully support and defend this right, and the
right of *anyone* to use whatever language they like, that is
precisely what I am arguing about. If there are a substantial
proportion of people who are native to a country (and by
"native" I would suggest born in that country, or normally
resident in that country and accepted as citiznes of it) whose
mother tongue is one other than the mother tongue of the
majority, then I would suggest that the basic human right that
everyone is treated as an equal means that they should have the
right to use that mother tongue on all occasion, and not to be
dsicriminated against in any form because that is their mother
tongue. We might argue over what is a "substantial
proportionm", but I wouldn't put it above 10%.

Matthew Huntbach
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Soviet army starshina.
From: verbit@brauer.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Date: 8 Jan 93 01:16:24 EST
Organization: Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv

In article <93007.212557DLVGC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Dimitri Vulis <DLVGC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>In article <1993Jan7.174213.19075@husc3.harvard.edu>, verbit@brauer.harvard.edu
>(Mikhail S. Verbitsky) says:
>> many (like me) simulated psychic disability,
>Are you sure you 'simulated'? ;)
>Disclaimer: you don't have to simulate psychic, telepathic, or
>sexual disability to be a CUNY student!

/From: DLVGC@CUNYVM.BITNET/Kh:=:j

Depositing command in
/home/zariski/verbit/News/talk/politics/soviet/KILL...done
 
Searching...

Not found.

----------

Gotta got rid from the sucker!

Chego i vam vsem zhelayu.

Ciao.

Misha.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.soviet
From: delval@scottie.Stanford.EDU (Alvaro DelVal)
Subject: Re: Bilingualism - a good cause!
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University, CA, USA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 07:06:53 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.191358.24203@linus.mitre.org> ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei) writes:
>      Two points:
>
>     First, I can't think of a country where multiple official
>languages exist, and the groups using the languages are geographically
>mixed.  Multilingual countries generally have areas where one language
>or another is considered predominant (examples: Canada, Belgium, and
>Switzerland), or one official language, with the others given second
>class status (examples: Spanish and Chinese in the US, anything
>besides Russian in Russia).
>

In Galicia, Catalonia and the Basque Country (three
regions/countries/nations of Spain, or whatever you want to call them)
there two official languages and the population is mixed: large
segments of the population are *native* spanish speakers, and except
in some isolated parts of the countryside, I think almost all the
population is (possibly non-native) spanish speaker. In the case of
Catalonia, there are some grumblings on the part of the native spanish
speaking minority (often migrants from the south of Spain) about their
"rights" being infringed by the pro-Catalan language legislation and
more generally the catalan government's linguistic policies. These
gripes resemble what we are reading in this group about russian
speakers in Estonians, save for the (crucial) question of citizenship,
that doesn't arise in Spain. To put things a little bit more in
context, this legislation and policies try to address issues arising
in part from the *imposition* of the spanish language on the catalan
population in the past. For various reasons which I do not pretend to
understand completely, as far as I know there haven't been any such
gripes in the case of the Basque country (where native Basque speakers
are a minority anyway) or Galicia. But I'll be happy to stand
corrected if I'm wrong.

All this, for your information, with no value judgements implied
(polemics on this issue have sometimes dragged for ages in
soc.culture.spain, and I just don't feel as having them rehearsed :-))

Alvaro del Val
From: muh@physics1 (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: some Soviet emigre restaurant jokes
Date: 6 Jan 93 21:00:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.1ifh8hINNnmh
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics1.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan6.125821.1@jaguar.uofs.edu> mam18@jaguar.uofs.edu writes:
>s Ohio), a osobenno s predstaviteliami eio Vnutrennikh Voisk, koim ia
>iavliaius'.

Gospoda lejtenanty, vam ne kazhetsja chto u etogo parnja mania velichija?
Vsego-to mladshij serzhant, a oret kak praporschik.

Yury M.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:11821 soc.culture.europe:11011 talk.politics.soviet:10236