From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hand-loads for defense (was Re: Occasional Dud in Glock 20)
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:43:47 GMT
Organization: gte

In article <tmi.714380771@well.sf.ca.us>, tmi@well.sf.ca.us (Peter Kasler) writes:
# In <9208202033.AA25010@gtephx.com> forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:
# 
# #you were justified in shooting.  If you were justified, there will 
# 
# #a free state (tm) like Arizona!
# 
# #As to the cost, 50 rounds of .357 Mag 125 gr HP will cost me anywhere
# #from $12.95 to $18.95 (US).  100 rounds of hand-loaded HP-XTP will 
# 
# 	First off, Andrew, not everyone is so fortunate as to live in
# a state such as Arizona; some of us care about legal liability
# exposure. Moreover, not all that long ago, virtually all of the United
# States was more reasonable than some of the oppressive states (such as
# California) is today. And the way things are going, some day in the
# not too distant future your smug little world might be shattered with
# the enactment of a few restrictive laws. And finally on this point, it
# is precisely folks such as you who increase the burden on the rest of
# us by persisting with foolish and naive notions such as you've posted
# here.

Lighten up, for christ's sake!  I wasn't flaming you, just disagreeing
on a universal application of statements that were obviously based upon
the jurisdiction you live in.  And Arizona is not the only state where
civil immunity is granted in justified use of deadly physical force,
so your statements were not entirely true for the rest of the country.
Perhaps you might include a comment like, "depending on the local
prosecutor, you might be paintes as a ..."

# #cost me $10.00 to $12.00.  So you're suggesting that I *half* my
# #shooting?  
# 
# 	I'm not suggesting anything, Andrew. Perhaps you should be a
# little less defensive and a little more constructive.

I was responding to the following -- I think this was you(?):

! 	If one can not afford the relatively small expense of factory
! defense ammunition that is not used for practice, but only for keeping
! in one's defense gun, then perhaps one should consider how a very
! costly legal defense would impact the old budget. While I wouldn't
! insult someone by suggesting that if factory ammunition is too
! expensive for defense purposes they should abandon their defense gun
! in favor of some other form of defense, I would suggest that a little
                                                  ^^^^^^^
! less practice (*just* enough less to equal the cost difference between
! normal defense quantity of factory ammunition vs. the same quantity of
! handloaded) would indeed be an appropriate resolution.
                                                         
Unless that wasn't your writing, you quite definitely made a suggestion.
If it wasn't your writing, then my whole response was directed to 
someone else.

# #BTW, you really should practice at least 20% of the time with the load
# #you use for defense.  Variations in ammunition alter the point of
# #impact and the amount of recoil and noise.  In a defense situation
# #you will be on edge and you will need every advantage -- including
# #intimate familiarity with the load you are using.  
# 
# 	Thanks so much for the lesson. I'm certain you know of that
# which you write, probably as much or more than I do.

Somehow, that sounds sarcastic -- if it is, then would you care to 
explain why you disagree?

# #Besides, I handload because factory .357 mag ammo is "too hot" and may
# #over penetrate, whereas my handloads are lighter and are of less risk
# #to innocent bystanders. 8^)
# 
# 	Once again, I yield to your obvious expertise. I'm going to go
# right out and replace my pistols with revolvers so I can shoot .357
# Magnum ammunition like you big guys. By the way, heard anything good
# from Evan Marshall lately? "8^)

Well, all right, I'll play God Almighty if you want, but if you're 
gonna treat me like that, then I want ten percent of everything 
you earn and your firstborn daughter (after she turns 18 please,
don't want no statutory rape charges!) 8^) 8^) 8^) 8^) 8^) 8^) 8^)

Geeez, I think you need to go shooting! (not at me please!)
-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda