HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: odlin@reed.edu (Iain Odlin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Points to Ponder:  Man of the People (spoilers, o' course)
Date: 7 Oct 92 06:02:36 GMT
Organization: The Stuffed Animal Trauma Team  (We're Trained Professionals)


  First: 30 or so blank lines, seeing as how I cannae do CNTL-Ls... *sniff*






























  All in all, a watchable episode!  Much good or average, and very little
  actually bad.  The worst part of it was that it was so reminicent of other
  TNG episodes, particularly (in no particular order) "Loud as a Whisper,"
  "The Price," and "Violations."  But that's not much of a problem, really.

  The points to ponder:
  - I was struck by the direction and camera work.  A definite change of pace,
    with many interesting angles (the close-up of the Stargazer model and the
    shot from way back in the transporter pad come to mind) and, at least in
    the teaser, very dynamic camera action (pans and dollies, and so forth).
    Nice.
  - "You're in good hands... with Picard." (I just watched the TOS blooper
    reels, so this was particularly amusing)
  - I wonder how intentional the coffin shape of the box was.
  - Nice to see Worf is still teaching Tai-Chi.  Good thing, too:  It'll be a
    good new career for him when he gets kicked out of his "Security" job.
  - Pardon the blatant sexism (but I am a normal, healthy human male), but
    Marina Sirtis can be one Hell of a knockout.  Oof!
  - In the turbolift with Ensign Hunk, you can almost hear Troi's thoughts:
    "Hello, little boy.  Want some candy?"
  - So, the Federation honours Safe-Passages even when the recipient of the
    S-P commits murder?
  - Nobody seemed really worried that they "had to" kill Troi to save her.
    I know Riker made a token complaint, but his heart didn't really seem to
    be in it.  A very odd scene, all told.
  - I liked the rest of the Troi/Riker scenes, though.  They seemed very nat-
    ural.  Even the "Clawing-Troi-From-Hell" scene.
  - Nurse Hill (my memory might be wrong on her name, but I mean the Nurse
    who gets lines and can out-act [to quote someone else on the Net] Keiko
    by simply raising her eyebrows) is back!
  - Riker waited until the next day to get the scratches dealt with??  (He
    specifically says "last night" when he talks to Dr Crusher)
  - Picard seems to have bad luck when low-tech weapons are about, doesn't he?
    He's now been knifed twice, "speared" once and shot with an arrow...

  The above, of course, is all IMO.  Your mileage will vary.  

  Next week looks like it could be *so* good.  I hope they don't screw it up...
-- 
 --------------------------------- Iain Odlin ---------------------------------
                  10 Crosby Street, Level 3, Portland ME 04103
                                 odlin@reed.edu
 --------- Two plus two equals five only for very large values of two ---------
From: pdg@crosfield.co.uk (paul goffin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: star trek TNG censorship: I.R.A. victory
Date: 7 Oct 92 10:37:20 GMT
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.

In article <1687810F1C.YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu> YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu writes:
>>>> Do any of you trekkies out there know the title of the episode in ST/new generation in which
>>>> a reference is made to a 'fictional' victory of the IRA (Irish Republican Army) over the
>>>> British forces sometime in the 21st century.

>   The name of the episode is "The High Ground" from the third season.
>The tape is not available in the US, but it may be available in UK.  My
>recollection was that neither side came off looking too well, but from
>the title, that was the whole point.

"The High Ground" tape is available in the UK.  You can buy it at
any video shop which has StarTrek Videos.  In fact, I've got a copy.

"The High Ground" was not actually *censored*.  The BBC decided not
to show it for fear it might cause offence.   As most of the people
who watch the BBC do not support the IRA, I suspect they might
have been right.

Paul
-- 
+-------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
+ Paul Goffin +  Crosfield Electronics Ltd. U.K.  +44 442 230000x3357 +
+             +  Opinions expressed are mine! (Yours for a small fee) +
+-------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: kanamori@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori)
Subject: Re: Dread of Scotty Episode
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 12:23:02 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.040947.15525@athena.mit.edu> johnnyp@athena.mit.edu (John Piscitello) writes:
>In article <1992Oct8.190133.4557@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> kanamori@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct7.214128.857@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu> jfeldhouse@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu (Jim Feldhouse) writes:
>>
>>How many here get the feeling that this
>>>episode where Scotty returns is not going to be to good?
>>
>>Count one.
>>
>>>That means that 3 out of the 1st 4 episodes
>>>are not very good 
>>
>>Personally, I'd call it 0 for 4.
>
>	BTW, word is from Cons and from Paramount that people inside the
>show are *very* big on Relics....many think it may be the best TNG episode
>so far. We'll have to wait and see...

They are also "*very* big" on "The Outcast", "Q-Pid" (at least Stewart is)
and "Cost of Living". 

Need I say more?


                       .        
 :....: : .  ::.: .  ..: :    ..     : :    .:   :.:   .
:::::::.:::::::::::.:::::: :?.:::::..::::.:.:: :.:::: ::W
-------------------------- -------------------.------ ------------------------
Kanamori's Episode Ratings: (last episode rated: "Man of the People") 
  Legend: 5-1 dots = A-F       "-.-" = "Cost of Living" 
          "?" = "don't know"   "W" = "walked out" 

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current,rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: joshm@crash.cts.com (Josh Mercer)
Subject: Re: Paramount Press Release - #233: Rascals
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 15 Oct 92 06:29:22 GMT

In <rccarm00.719076618@mik.uky.edu> rccarm00@mik.uky.edu (ron c carman) writes:

>In <4264@vidiot.UUCP> brown@vidiot.UUCP (Vidiot) writes:


>>Episode #233			uplink dates: 10/31/92, 11/01/92

>>	STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION: A bizarre transporter mishap transform
>>	Picard and three other staff members into children just as Ferengis
>>	invade and disable the ship.

>   Does this scare anyone else as much as it does me?
>What happened to the writers who came up with 'The Inner Light',
>'I, Borg', and 'Darmok'??  Have they been taking lessons
>from the writers of 'Cost of Living'?

And just what is it with transporter weirdness this season?  It's worse
than last-season's preoccupation with things being "out of phase."

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: areid@mary.fordham.edu (Darin Reid)
Subject: Re: Fox SF (NOT! NOT! NOT!): ST:TNG alumni, ALien Nation, etc
Organization: Fordham University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Distribution: rec
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 17:00:00 GMT
X-Posted-From: mary.fordham.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

ONCE AND FOR ALL, ST:TNG is _NOT_ a Fox show!!!!!!!!
People are starting to piss me off, ST:TNG is nationally syndicated, not
a Fox network show.  No matter how many times I say or post this someone 
else says otherwise.  Want proof that it is not a Fox show?  Here in
New York City, WNYW Fox 5 (the cornerstone of the Fox Network) dosen't
show TNG, WPIX ch. 11 our biggest independent carries it!  Please for 
the sake of my sanity, stop calling it a Fox show!

Darin Reid
areid@mary.fordham.edu
From: balesej@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Eric J Bales)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Dyson Sphere's (was Re: Relics (mistakes) ***SPOILERS***)
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:24:35 GMT
Organization: University of Cincinnati

In article <ewright.719171798@convex.convex.com> ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) writes:
>In <6#qpypf@lynx.unm.edu> follick@jemez.eece.unm.edu (Jeremy Follick) writes:
>
>>The sphere could be rotated to provide centrifugal pseudo-gravity around the
>>equatorial region of the sphere. As another poster pointed out, this
>>would leave much of the sphere in a vacuum, not a problem IMHO. You
>>would still have an inhabitable region that is HUGE. 
>
>And an uninhabitable that is huger.  If you were going to do that,
>you wouldn't bother building the whole sphere, you'd just build a
>ringworld.

Not necessarily.  The whole point of the Dyson Sphere is to make it
possible to capture all the sun's output.  The uninhabitable areas
would be purely 'solar collectors' (or whatever).

>>Another possibility
>>would be to have a shell with asymmetrically non-uniform density. Consider
>>a uniform shell. On the inside surface, scatter some areas with rock a
>>few thousand miles thick. Instant gravity, but only in some regions.
>
>In other words, planets imbedded in the shell.  Interesting concept,
>but it defeats the purpose of the Dyson sphere.  Only the planets
>would be habitable, so you wouldn't gain any living area you didn't
>have before.

Again, not really for the same reason as above.

-- 
balesej@ucunix.san.uc.edu - atreis@tso.uc.edu		 -Eric Bales-
ebales@ddt.eng.uc.edu - at098@Cleveland.Freenet.Edu
		        -The second dolphin-
Dolphins. Soon you will be one of us, and then you will understand.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: steve@sep.Stanford.EDU (Steve Cole)
Subject: Re: No more "Opinionated Comments"
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:23:52 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.171059.20332@athena.mit.edu>, johnnyp@athena.mit.edu (John Piscitello) writes:
|> 	Well, you certainly won't be missed. Let's have the REAL FANS of TNG
|> take this newsgroup BACK! Enough of these pretentious reviewers whose only
|> purpose in life is to tear down the work of others. TNG is among the
|> top shows on television. 

I don't think Atsushi would dispute this. He devoted a lot of
time to his reviews. I think he must have thought that TNG was
worth that time.

|> Even when it's at its worst, it outranks
|> all of the brain-dead garbage being shown on the networks.

Yes, but when it is at its worst, what do you propose to do on
this group? Sit back and say "Well, this episode wasn't that great, 
but it sure beats the heck out of everything else on TV." That
will get pretty boring after a while.

More interesting is discussion about good and bad points and how various 
episodes could be better. This is just what Atsushi was doing, and doing 
well too IMHO. He may be a little more severe than some of the other 
reviewers, but I don't think he or any of the others are "pretentious".
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Cole  (steve@sep.stanford.edu, apple!sep!steve)
Department of Geophysics, Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305
From: rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: No more "Opinionated Comments"
Date: 17 Oct 92 02:51:08 GMT
Reply-To: rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Dept., Madison, WI

In <1992Oct16.184013.8720@ncsu.edu> rhballan@eos.ncsu.edu (ROBERT HAMI BALLANTINE) writes:
>Now this is more of a waste of bandwidth than the original waste.
>Anyone care to second this opinion?   :-}

Speaking as one of the contenders for title of "Biggest Waste of Bandwidth
on rec.arts.startrek", I will! :-)

-- 
Michael Rawdon				 rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Department, Madison, WI

"Go?  Where are we going?"
"Where they went."
"Suppose they went nowhere?"
"Then, this will be your big chance to get away from it all."
			- McCoy and Kirk; Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan
From: jane@adpgate.UUCP (Jane Dunkin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Major Disappointment!
Date: 13 Oct 92 20:36:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: tongo.1625
Organization: ADP Dealer Services R&D, Portland, OR

I don't know about anyone else out there, but those last two episodes were
nothing more than crummy!  What's with these sappy, unbelievable, far-fetched
endings?  Example: "Man of the People"... how do they expect anyone to
believe this metamorphosis thing at the end?? It would have been much more
believable to resolve the problem of Troi's appearance with the transporter
technology they've used before, or even to have Crusher do extensive plastic
surgery (she did fix Picard up after the Borg thing), but this return to
youth miraculously for the sake of the special effects?

I'm growing more and more dissatisfied with the episodes this season.. and now
this "Scotti thing". When can we get back to some mentally challenging,
intelligent stuff? 

OK, I've vented.. I feel better, now!

O'Dunk
From: v070p6nd@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Anthos)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: O'Brien's Rank [THE FINAL ANSWER]
Date: 9 Oct 92 02:39:00 GMT
Organization: SUNY at Beefalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <DAVIDM.92Oct8103648@consilium.com>, davidm@consilium.com (David S. Masterson) writes...
>>>>>> On 8 Oct 92 04:14:00 GMT, v070p6nd@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Anthos) said:
> 
>> In article <DAVIDM.92Oct7193638@consilium.com>, davidm@consilium.com (David
>> S. Masterson) writes...
> 
>>>2. Lt. Cmdr Crusher's promotion to Cmdr. after Starfleet tour.
> 
>> As far as I know, she was a Cmdr. before then.  But I could be mistaken.
>> (I asked for her rank once, and this observation was mentioned MANY times
>> by different people)
> 
>I think I saw Lt. Cmdr. pips on her collar at Far Point station.

I think it was changed VERY soon afterwards (like an episode or two 
	{or three, or four or...}
>--
>====================================================================
>David Masterson					Consilium, Inc.
>(415) 691-6311					640 Clyde Ct.
>davidm@consilium.com				Mtn. View, CA  94043
>====================================================================
>We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur.
>                -- Vice President Dan Quayle.
Anthos, the Grey Knight, High Preist of Minikar, God of Chaos, Horrible Puns,
                                                  and Extremely Bad Form
================================================================================
Across time and space/ The grey knight cometh/ With dragons to rape/
Madiens to slay/ Castles to sack/ Towns to pillage/ Quarterbacks to plunder

Oh, how I am confused!
===========I wish this was a .sig so I wouldn't have to type all this===========
Xref: sparky rec.arts.startrek.current:15601 rec.arts.startrek.misc:10407
From: brown@vidiot.UUCP (Vidiot)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current,rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: Episode Q-Me is no more!
Date: 15 Oct 92 00:02:40 GMT
Reply-To: brown@vidiot.UUCP (Vidiot)
Organization: Vidiot's Hangout

In article <4263@vidiot.UUCP> brown@vidiot.UUCP (Vidiot) writes:
<
<
<Trivia question....
<
<Name the only other ST:TNG episode to have the title changed AFTER it was
<published in an official promotion department schedule.  What was the first
<title and what was the new title?

Oops, I slipped up.  There are two stories that had the name changed, not
including "Q-Me".  Name the original published title and the final on-screen
title.
-- 
      harvard\                          spool.cs.wisc.edu!astroatc!vidiot!brown
Vidiot  ucbvax!uwvax..........!astroatc!vidiot!brown
      rutgers/            INTERNET:vidiot!brown%astroatc.UUCP@spool.cs.wisc.edu
                                   brown@wi.extrel.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: singley@helix.nih.gov (Erick Singley)
Subject: Re: Guinan and her secrets
Organization: (National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, MD)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:33:37 GMT

>>What was Guinan doing on Earth in the first
>>place?
>
>>Enquiring minds want to know...
>>Mark

>Guinen several times asks Data if her father had sent him.  My guess is that,
>at the time of TA, she is very young and has either run away or has somehow
>traveled to Earth as a lark

Agreed that the father had sent her. My impression of the next couple lines
were that she was sent to 'talk to Twain'.
Erick
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: kanamori@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori)
Subject: Re: Dread of Scotty Episode
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 21:21:50 GMT

In article <1992Oct08.200352.14069@eng.umd.edu> wombat@eng.umd.edu (Jose Gonzalez) writes:
>In article <1992Oct8.190133.4557@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> kanamori@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct7.214128.857@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu> jfeldhouse@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu (Jim Feldhouse) writes:
>>>Just a little preliminary survey.
>>>How many here get the feeling that this
>>>episode where Scotty returns is not going
>>>to be to good?
>>
>>Count one.
>
>Subtract one.  That makes zero. (-: (Isn't this fun?)

Add two (two for being right :-)


>>At least they kept it to one hour this time.
>
>Another good thing, there's not *nearly* as much hype for this as for
>"Unification."  Expectations aren't as high, so hopefully it ends up 
>surprising a lot of people.  

I s'pose, although it seems there's been less hype for the season 6
shows in general. However, you see fairly little discussion and a *lot*
of complaining these days.


>>>That means that 3 out of the 1st 4 episodes
>>>are not very good 
>>
>>Personally, I'd call it 0 for 4.
>
>What?  You gave "Realm of Fear" a C, did you not?  I'd think you'd be 
>singing in the aisles with a grade like that.  (-:

A "C" is okay. It ain't "very good."



                       .        
 :....: : .  ::.: .  ..: :    ..     : :    .:   :.:   .
:::::::.:::::::::::.:::::: :?.:::::..::::.:.:: :.:::: ::W
-------------------------- -------------------.------ ------------------------
Kanamori's Episode Ratings: (last episode rated: "Man of the People") 
  Legend: 5-1 dots = A-F       "-.-" = "Cost of Living" 
          "?" = "don't know"   "W" = "walked out" 

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: 910252m@ace.acadiau.ca (DWAYNE ALLAN MACKINNON)
Subject: Re: _Best Destiny_ novel: Diane Carey can't write!
Summary: Some thoughts on Diane DUANE
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 17:54:37 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.185949.1663@sarah.albany.edu> ys3359@thor.albany.edu (Yazmasterj) writes:
>From: ys3359@thor.albany.edu (Yazmasterj)
>Subject: Re: _Best Destiny_ novel: Diane Carey can't write!
>Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 18:59:49 GMT
>In article <1bb204INNfc7@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bt979@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Preston) writes:
>>  Is this the same Diane who writes novels using Horta crewmembers and
>>other unlikely characters?  I always get the Dianes confused.  :)  All I
>>can tell you is after half of a novel with the penis-envy characters
>>associated with the books which contained this Horta character... well...
>>I decided they'd let the fans go too far with their fictionalizing. If
>>this is the same person, I'd have to agree that she could NOT write a
>>decent shopping list. Utilitarian, perhaps. Decent, no.
>
>The Diane who uses Horta characters is Diane Duane.  The one who wrote
>Best Destiny is Diane Carey.  Personally, I have read books by both and
>while I like Diane Duane better, I have enjoyed the books by both
>authors.  IMHO they stand up there with some of the best Trek authors
>like JM Dillard, AC Crispin and PAD.
>
>Yasmin
>
>**************************************************************************
>*                                   *                                    *
>*  Yasmin Sohrawardy                *                                    *
>*                                   *          Clinton/Gore '92          *
>*  Internet:  ys3359@csc.albany.edu *                                    *
>*                                   *                                    *
>**************************************************************************

Guys and Gals,
    Is it just me or does Diane Duane do the best version of McCoy ever 
found in a novel? The debate in Spock's World definitely comes to 
mind.........

DMK
Acadia University, Wolfville, N.S., Canada.
   
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: rat1@me1.MsState.Edu (Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: No more "Opinionated Comments"
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 17:32:56 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.145646.3430@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> kanamori@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) writes:
>Because of the low quality of the recent episodes and the even lower
>quality of the *promisings* of upcoming episodes, I am dropping
>ST:TNG from my viewing schedule effective immediately. I will not be 
>reviewing (or watching) "Relics", nor will there be any further episode 
>reviews from this site.
>                       .        
Thank God!

--Another environmentalist for nuclear energy--
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: ys3359@thor.albany.edu (Yazmasterj)
Subject: Re: "Imzadi" and "Man of The People"
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 01:58:43 GMT

In article <92285.162100LEN101@psuvm.psu.edu> <LEN101@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>While watching the episode "MofTP" I thought I heard Troi and Riker
>refer to each other as Imzadi I know by reading the jacket of the book
>that this is a name they have for each other special conotations etc.
>
>My question is has this been established in other episodes or just in
>the book and drawn into this episode.  In case you missed it, it was
>just before she scratched him.

The term Imzadi first came up in the first season episode where Troi
was going to get married through an ancient Betazoid custom of arranged
marriages.  I believe the name of the episode was Haven but I could be
wrong.

Yasmin

**************************************************************************
*                                   *                                    *
*  Yasmin Sohrawardy                *  "Only Nixon can go to China"      *
*                                   *                                    *
*  Internet:  ys3359@csc.albany.edu *            - Ancient Vulcan        *
*                                   *              Proverb               *
**************************************************************************
From: jagrizza@uncc.edu (James A Grizzard)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: --<Man of the People>-- *SPOILERS*
Date: 11 Oct 92 04:37:21 GMT
Reply-To: jagrizza@uncc.edu
Organization: University of NC at Charlotte

In article 1b89ogINN45o@bigboote.WPI.EDU, jseaver@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Jason John Seaver) writes:
>In article <1992Oct9.184527.1@us.oracle.com> sstephen@us.oracle.com writes:
>
>>It was a "Picture of Dorian Grey" rip-off that was produced for the sole
>>purpose of titilating the audience AND letting the special-effects gang show
>>off their "morphing" effect that is going to become a lot more popular in the
>>next few years, (started with some music videos - peaked with Michael Jackson's
>>Black and White album + ST-VI), this is exactly the same thing that happenened
>>when they started using the "balooning skin" effect almost a decade ago.
>>
>	That's about the same impression I've got.  However, this one had 
>unnecessary (and stupid) use of morph.  This was NOT one of the all-time great
>episodes.  It may be down there with "Data's Day" (give me a day or two for my
>revulsion to wear off), with what is easily some of the worst acting by TNG
>regulars and most bludgeon-like writing that the series has seen.
>
>	Boy, it was bad.  Thank god Relics is next week!

which one is 'data's day'?? I'm not good with names...

:>

tnx
From: pip@pro-freedom.cts.com (David Pipgras)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: nudity on trek
Date: 8 Oct 92 06:41:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: pro-free.1992Oct7.234128.3939
Organization: ProLine [pro-freedom] AppleVan (Apple UG of Vancouver, WA)

>But somehow I can't see them saying, "It's sweeps month; quick, get Troi's
>clothes off."


Picture the following scene on the bridge of the big-E :

"...Imzadi....I feel.....a........draft...."

           or

"Captain......I feel....a draft....I'm sure of it....It's a draft..."


Dave
==============================================================