From: davidh@cascade.ens.tek.com (David Hatcher)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Date: 6 Jan 1993 16:00:44 -0800
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cascade.ens.tek.com

In article <79238@hydra.gatech.EDU> rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
>In article <1i9h0mINNi06@cascade.ens.tek.com> davidh@cascade.ens.tek.com (David Hatcher) writes:
>|In article <78447@hydra.gatech.EDU> rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
>|>In article <1gnifaINNsko@cascade.ens.tek.com> davidh@cascade.ens.tek.com (David Hatcher) writes:
>|>>Jen Kilmer writes:
>|>>>Christianity is true.
>|>>
>|>>  And so are many other spiritual traditions.	
>|>
>|>How do you reconcile Jesus' statement of Himself being the only way to
>|>the Father? 
>|
>|  The way that I reconcile those words is that from what I have seen
>|and experienced, I do not believe that the God stuff that Christians see 
>|within the personage of Jesus Christ is limited only to the body that 
>|Christians know by as that name.
>
>The Apostle Peter (a man who knew Jesus up close and personal) said that
>if we didn't belief that THE Christ had come in the flesh, then our
>teachings aren't to be followed.  The angel even told us at Jesus'
>birth that he was CHRIST the Lord, not a christ.

  Regardles, and it's clear we don't agree, the way I still reconcile those 
words, and that is what you asked, is that from what I, and many, many others
have seen and experienced, I do not believe that the God stuff that Christians 
see "only" within the personage of Jesus Christ is limited only to the body 
that Christians know by as that name.

  Way too many know of the experience of God in their lives through other 
means than Jesus Christ for the personage of Jesus Christ to be the only way
to God. So, it seems to me that there has to be stuff happening here between 
people and God that many Christians are not willing to look at. If they did,
then I cant' help but think that they would be forced to see that things are 
not what they have been believing for all of this time. 

  This is sad to me, because instead of wallowing in our differences, we 
could instead be joyfully praising God together.

>|>It is written about Jesus that there is no other name given whereby men 
>|>must be saved.  
>|
>|  When I peer around these words and gaise upon the source of Jesus and
>|experience that source within in my heart and soul, I know that Jesus
>|in not the only way to the Divine. When I experience the Divine through
>|the ways of other spiritual traditions, from those places I also can not 
>|help but know that the Christian way of coming to God is not the only way. 
>
>Jesus told us that the way to God is NARROW and few find it, but the
>way to destruction is WIDE and many find it.  

  Yet, there are still uncounted souls who still find their way to the Divine
with out going though Jesus Christ. As an example of several I can name right
from the Bible, how about David, Moses, Abraham and Noah to name just a few.

 So it seems to me that either Jesus was not being quoted correctly, or else 
he is being missunderstood. I don't know which it is, but clearly something
more is happening than what many a Christian ready ready to acknowledge.

>|When I see the Divine at play within the hearts and souls of those of other 
>|spiritual traditions, again, I know that God is wide open to all, regardless 
>|of the spiritual traditions that anyone follows.
>
>God's divine nature and eternal power is evident to all.  All have an
>awareness of God the Creator and are responsible to that.  

  This is good. We are in full agreement. 

>However, 
>those who have the complete message of God proclaimed to the via the
>message of Jesus the Christ are subject to a greater standard.  The
>Bible asks how can we escape if we neglect so great a salvation?

  The Christian standard of turning towards God is no greater, nor any
less, than the standard of other spiritual traditions where God is the focus.

>To some what I would agree, but the full revelation is in Jesus the
>Christ, who came to reveal the invisible God to us.  

  Yet the invisible God IS also being revealed to others of other spiritual
traditions.

>Yet, without Jesus we don't have access to the Father.

  And again, all I have to do is to look around those words and behond
my Beloved God to know that Jesus Christ is not the only way to God.
  
>I can state where I agree with you, but I don't want to give it
>a go to the degree of ignoring what I know, for as you know we
>do not agree very much, when it comes to Jesus THE Christ and this
>is the key for me.

  How about exploring the "experiences" of God in our lives as the Divine
moves through our heart and soul. Or how about were we see God at work.
Or, how about sharing with each other about the awareness of the presence
of God. There are a lot of areas where it is God whom is the central focus 
where I think we can find a Unity of experiences and a common understanding
of our mutual life in God.



	Ecstatic Love is an ocean, and the Milky Way
	is a flake of foam floating on it.
					Rumi

	David Hatcher






Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc