From: metraton@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems,rec.humor
Subject: The "Roses are red" Controversy
Keywords: Rosese red funny animals
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:00:46 GMT
Reply-To: metraton@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us


                  
                  
                  ROSES MIGHT VERY WELL BE RED:  
                    AN ADVENTURE IN RESEARCH

      We all know the poem that begins "Roses are red, violets are blue..."
  Or do we? It recently occurred to me that I don't have the vaguest idea how 
  the rest of this poem goes. I mean REALLY goes. Oh sure, we've the funny 
  versions that end "You look like a monkey and you smell like one too," or 
  whatever. But that can't be how it was originally written. Before it became 
  a greeting card cliche', it must have been a real poem (or part of one), 
  written perhaps by a grandmother in 1879, and published posthumously in the 
  Thirties in The Saturday Evening Post. Who knows?

     Well, I aimed to find out. I conducted an extemely scientific survey  
  consisting of asking my friends. The version I got most often was:
   
                    Roses are red, violets are blue.
                    Sugar is sweet and so are you.

     Touching, wouldn't you agree? However, it obviously is not the original.
  Notice that the lines do not really mesh very well. The first line refers 
  to certain flowers and their color attributes, while the second shifts 
  gears grindingly and suddenly starts talking about flavorings. (If it 
  said that sugar is WHITE we might have something. But no.) 
  
     One woman I asked thought perhaps it was supposed to be "something 
  something I love you". That sounds closer, but it was still a cold trail. 
  In response to the query "Who wrote it?" I usually got either "Some guy at 
  Hallmark Labs?" or "Dottie Parker maybe?"

     Thus, my only recourse was...REAL RESEARCH. Ewwww. Fortunately, I was 
  able to weasle out of it by posing the question to The Great Unwashed, that
  is, the readers of rec.arts.poems. (Message #19994, in case you're 
  interested.) I received one interesting and useful response. A Mr. Mark 
  Taranto (thanks Marky!) informed me that the original was in Spenser's THE 
  FAERIE QUEEN and could be looked up in Bartlett's Familiar Quotations.
     
     Naturally, I assumed Mr. Taranto was lying. I would have bet money that
  it was written by some nameless word technician in the Valentine's Day 
  section at Hallmark. Still, it was a clue. I scampered down to the library 
  and looked it up. Sure enough, there it was:

                Roses red and violets blew
                And all the sweetest flowers in the forest grew.

     Not exactly the version we're now familiar with, but without a doubt the 
  original. Small wonder few remember this version. Isn't it AWFUL?! I mean,
  jeez, what the hell does it MEAN? (Sure, it's out of context but I'll bet
  the whole damn book reads like that.)

     But I'm not here to mock dead guys who obviously couldn't spell. 
  (Violets blew what? Bubbles?) No, we're obviously no better off than 
  before. The Edmund Spencer version, while it does have seniority, is not
  the one that has wormed its way into our collective subconscious. 
  
     Then which one is?

     Again, I put it to you, The Great Unwashed: We have all heard a couplet
  that starts "Roses are red, violets are blue..." The question is, how do
  YOU remember the second line? It can be any version, even the funny ones.
  I don't mind. Mail them to:
   
  metraton@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
  or:
  ...netcom!cruzio!metraton

     I will include useful responses in a future posting. Expect no payment
  or recompense. (I want it to be a surprise.)

1200-- 
"Metraton" is mentioned in the Bible as a Throne, or highest order of angel.
That, or he's a giant robot that transforms into a Camaro. I forget which.
-Jacob Bronowski
Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems