HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: charless@sco.COM (charles stross)
Subject: Re: Asimov and the Decay of SF
Organization: The Somewhat Contagious Operation, Inc.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 13:29:12 GMT


In article <1992Jul26.175737.17862@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>
>Joanne Eglash wrote:
> 
>	Can anyone recommend fiction (both by authors in previous 
>	decades and current writers) in which the subject of science 
>	and scientists is handled intelligently?  
>
>Physicists and, in particular, theoretical physicists, not only, for the
>most part, take themselves too seriously, but a number of them even believe
>in a Higher Truth. One fine exeption was Richard Feynman who, from time to
>time was also able to see his work as great artistry rather than great 
>science. In a way I suppose he might have thought that all good science was
>good Science Fiction. His autobiographical little book *Surely you're
>joking, Mr Feynman* (he had asked for lemon and cream with his tea..) is
>a nice little read, and Feynman was also something of a Topless fan in the
>days -- ah, will they never return? -- when Topless was the real higher truth
>in Southern California.
>
Yes, but that wasn't _quite_ what the original question was about. 

Let's see ...

For starters, try finding a copy of _Timescape_ by Gregory Benford.
Benford is a real physicist, and _Timescape_ is one of the best
fictional (science-fictionalized?) accounts of the scientific
process around.

Then there's _The Electric Crocodile_, by D. G. Compton, an
SF writer who was so intelligent that he was virtually unable
to sell some of his books. (In this line of work it doesn't pay
to be too smart.) 

Then there are any of the numerous novels by Fred Hoyle, who
came very close to a Nobel prize in physics and who is certainly
one of the most famous living British astronomers (although lately
his hobby-horses have been becoming rather outre).

Oddly, I can't think of any more off the top of my head. This isn't
because they don't exist, but because it's rare to find a 
convincing portrayal  of scientists or the scientific process in
fiction; most fiction writers know zip about it, and in any case
it isn't the stuff of heroic fantasy ...

-- 
Charlie Stross aka charless@scol.sco.com ..... UNIX oriented text mangler
WARNING: The opinions voiced in the preceding electronic document are the
product of a warped mind. Take two before meals. 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: yarnot@csusac.csus.edu (Jan Yarnot)
Subject: Re: Great last sentences
Organization: Moi?
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 17:32:53 GMT

SF story, and yes, I know title and author, but am not telling, as not to spoil
it for others.

"One by one, without any fuss, the stars were going out."

-- 
---Jan Yarnot, net.grandma.-- | A lifetime of smirking behind your hand
                              | is a lot better than a few seconds of
                              | triumph.
CSUS depends on my every word.              Kinsella, _Box Socials_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: Spoilers - continuing discussion, part 2
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 21:19:15 GMT


fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster) writes:

> I wrote about willed forgetting--a mental maneuver by which you simply
> forget any "spoilers" you may have heard--and Keith Morgan replied:
> . . . .

I noticed that Keith attributed Fiona's passage to Barbara Hlavin.
Perhaps this is evidence that willed forgetting works.  If not, then
perhaps it is evidence that unwilled forgetting takes over when
all else fails.

Now, what did I want to say?

Mark
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Hey, Mikhail, where ya goin' with that gun in you
From: zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Date: 30 Jul 92 02:46:32 EDT
Distribution: na
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1992Jul29.183012.1091@panix.com> 
eck@panix.com (Mark Eckenwiler) writes:

>A minor diversion, for those who recall the Zeleny-Godwin (non)duel of
>some months ago.....

>From: zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny)
>Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,misc.legal
>Subject: Pistol Permits in Massachusetts
>[...]

Alas, last time I inquired, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts doesn't issue
duelling permits.  I have diligently tried to circumvent this unfortunate
lapse of legal judgment by requesting a hunting license, but it seems that
the cunning shyster has managed to register himself as an endangered
species with the state Fish and Reptile board.  The only honorable choice
open to me is to wither the unworthy sod with deadly ridicule.  You may
expect Mike Godwin to drop dead from my witty barbs within the next fifty
years.

>-- 
>      I am George Bush, miwwionaire.  I own a mansion and a yacht.
>
>	Mark Eckenwiler    eck@panix.com    ...!cmcl2!panix!eck

cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
"Un de mes plus grands plaisirs est de jurer Dieu quand je bande."


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,soc.culture.latin-america,soc.culture.spanish
From: tt@tarzan.jyu.fi (Tapani Tarvainen)
Subject: Para Leer al Pato Donald
Originator: tt@tarzan.jyu.fi
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 14:00:01 GMT

I'm trying to locate the book 

	Para Leer al Pato Donald

by Ariel Dorfman and Armand Mattelart.

It was originally published in Chile 1971 but banned there after the
coup; I think (hope) it's since been published elsewhere in Latin
America or in Spain.  (I know an English edition has been published in
USA and is still in print, but I want the Spanish version.)

What I need is name (and preferably address) of the publisher.
Otherwise, any hints as to where it might be obtained would be
welcome, like if someone who has it were willing to sell it.

In any case, I would like recommendations of a good mail-order
bookstore in Spain and/or any Spanish-speaking country in Latin
America, or any other source of unusual Spanish-language books.

Reply preferably by mail, although I'll try to follow these
newsgroups also.  (Replies in Spanish are OK, even though I
don't feel up to writing this in Spanish.)

Muchas gracias,
--
Tapani Tarvainen    (tarvaine@jyu.fi, tarvainen@finjyu.bitnet)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: help please, when did Isaac Asimov die?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 20:33:33 GMT

Michael Chapin writes in response to conversations about Religious
healing and faith healing:

>Yep. It happened. Right here in merry ol'Massachusetts,
>home of the Christian Science Church. The parents were found
>guilty of neglect. If you're willing to look, articles can be
>found in the Boston Globe from about a year to two years ago.
>(I can't remember exactly when it happened, but it was all
>over the local news.) As for those who might not be familiar
>with the Church of Christ Scientist, look up Mary Baker Eddy
>in an encyclopedia. One of its distinguishing tenets is the
>equation of illness with sin, thereby allowing physical problems
>to be treated as religious ones. (Please forgive the simplification
>of the tenet, but I really didn't want to go too much into it.
>And it definitely shouldn't have been crossposted to rec.humor)

	
	Since this was crossposted to rec.arts.books I will make 
reference to Mark Twain's wonderfully grouchy _Christian Science_ in
which Twain castigates Mary baker Eddy and her friends. The book
originated when Twain broke his leg in Switzerland and the only
medical help to be found was a Christian Scientist lady who looked at
his leg and then told him she was going home to pray for him. Twain
was enraged and thus the book. 

--Keith

--
Keith Morgan		      | Just because your voice reaches half-
MIT Libraries                 | way around the world doesn't mean
kamorgan@athena.mit.edu	      | you are wiser than when it reached 
                              | only to the end of the bar. Ed Murrow
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phillip M. Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: help please, when did Isaac Asimov die?
Reply-To: hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: DESY ZEUS Central Data Acquisition
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 22:29:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.132513.29828@CERIS.Purdue.EDU>,
jheath@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Jim Heath) writes:

|>But do atheists _go_ anywhere when they die?

Depends if they are taking part in a snuff movie called `Dinner at
Dahmers or not'.

Phill
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
Subject: Re: Ahasuerus
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 19:53:57 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

>Margaret Mikulska writes:
>	Roger Squires writes:
>		The Dowager Duchess of Denver's cat in Sayers'
>		*Busman's Honeymoon* is named this, and I see that
>		Drury Lane in Ellery Queen's *Drury Lane's Last Case*
>		mentions Ahasuerus as well.
>
>		Who is Ahasuerus? ...
>
>	Ahasuerus or the Wandering Jew - a personnage from a mediaeval 
>	Christian legend, ...
>

And others have pointed out that Ahasuerus is a king in the biblical
book of Esther, but the above I'm sure is the correct reference.
Especially since (I feel like a boffo saying this) on the same page
in _Drury Lane's Last Case_, the Wandering Jew is specifically mentioned.
My brain was on idle then, I guess.

Now for the life of me I don't see any real justification for its use
in either of these novels (it seems especially forced in Queen),
except that they were both written in the 30's (1933 and 1937) when
anti-semitism and race consciousness were 'in the air,' and 
I seem to recall from various books that the germans in particular were
fond of dredging up these sorts of medieval legends.  I wouldn't be
surprised to learn that there was some popular novel circulating
that featured Ahasuerus as a main character.  Also, I recall reading
_The Devil and the Jews_ awhile back, blaming Xtianity for later events,
written in the middle 40's, and mentioning the WJ.

Anyway, thanks to all those who responded!

Roger Squires
rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13089 rec.arts.sf.misc:2218 rec.humor:24552 alt.folklore.urban:19795 alt.religion.kibology:3219
From: joeb@pdnfido.fidonet.org (Joe Beiter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 25 Jul 92 13:23:57 GMT
Organization: The Source for Source Pub Access Unix

In article <1992Jul24.131119.7420@decvax.dec.com> kaehler@zk3.dec.com writes:
>
>In article <1992Jul24.075717.104265@zeus.calpoly.edu>, rcasey@zeus.calpoly.edu (Rosalie J Casey) writes:
>>
>>	If you had a bet to take, either for a god and go to 
>>'eternal bliss', or that there is no god and take your chances...
>>
>>where would your money be?
>>------
>>no sig , to cheep
>>rcasey@iris.calpoly.edu
>>
>Hmm...  Maybe you are right, wouldn't hurt to take up a religion for
>a little "after life" insurance.  As good a reason as any.  Now, which
>religion is the best "after life" insurance policy.  So many to pick
>from...  Hindu, Moslem, Christian, Jewish...  Maybe all...

Thats assuming of course that *a* God can be patronized.  I don't know about
the other religions you mentioned but in the Christian religion it is God
who does the choosing.


-- 
-=@=-=@=-=@=-=@=-::
- JoeB           Joe.Beiter@HauppaugeNY.NCR.COM
                 joeb@pdnfido.fidonet.org
-=@=-=@=-=@=-=@=-::
From: 754dempsey@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Alexander Kent help please?
Date: 27 Jul 92 12:13:32 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

My father is a great fan of Alexander Kent (High Seas adventure/history)
type stuff, and I was wondering if anyone out there in compu-land might
have a complete list of Alexander's works.  My father is trying to 
collect _ALL_ of his books, but believes he is missing one.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.   please E-mail the list to

x90dempsey1@gw.wmich.edu

thanx in advance.

-Daniel
From: dougm@hal.com (Doug Moran)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Revisited Classics (was Re: Little Men)
Date: 22 Jul 1992 19:38:52 GMT
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.; Campbell, CA
Reply-To: dougm@hal.com (Doug Moran)
NNTP-Posting-Host: gizmo.hal.com
In-reply-to: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)

In article <d1fm!ga@lynx.unm.edu>, rsquires@cyclops (Roger Squires) writes:
>In article <22JUL199208582109@nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov> calvo@nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov (Sherri Calvo) writes:
>>
>>Anybody else dig out the dusty classics of their childhood lately? How 
>>did it go?
>>
>
>	Here are ones I've read recently that I still enjoy quite a bit:
[list deleted]

I have often re-read THE HOBBIT, A WRINKLE IN TIME, LITTLE MEN, and
HEIDI over the years; they all seem to stand up just fine for me.
LITTLE WOMEN is a little too much, plus my copy is so old (1888
printing) that I am loathe to take it out and risk damaging it (though
it does have some beautiful drawings, including several full color
plates).

I also have re-read the Hardy Boys, particularly THE SECRET PANEL and
THE TOWER TREASURE, but I would hardly call those classics.  Also, the
occasional Alfred Hitchcock's Three Investigators book -- my favorites
are THE RIDDLE OF THE DEAD MAN'S LAUGH and THE MYSTERY OF THE SCREAMING
CLOCK (or something like that).  And then there are the Heinlein
juveniles. . . 
-- 
    Doug Moran        | Heck, picture if aliens ever landed in California.
   dougm@hal.com      | Instead of running away or even inquiring about the
 {...}!hal.com!dougm  | secrets of the universe, *Californians* would probably
 HaL Computer Systems | ask the BEMs if they had any new cuisine!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser)
Subject: Re: P.K. Dick in Hell (was Re: What happens to authors when they die)
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 03:49:55 GMT

yamauchi@cs.rochester.edu (Brian Yamauchi) writes:


>This thread reminds me of a quote from Phillip Dick, referring to how
>much he hated the original _Blade_Runner_ script (though he liked the
>version actually filmed).  He said, "If you want to put me in Hell
>after I die, have my stories rewritten by Mickey Spillane."

>Well, I don't know about Spillane, but being rewritten by Piers
>Anthony and then having Arnie act in the movie version must come
>pretty close...

   I have to agree with this! Especially about Piers Anthony. When I saw the  
"novel" Total Recall by Piers in the store I almost gagged. What could be
more insulting than a "novel" adapted from a screenplay which was based
on an original short story? Poor PKD...my only hope is that he's in heaven
and that such trifles don't bother him anymore...:-) Personally, I think
all novels based on screenplays are good for nothing except bonfires, but
that's another matter...

--
Richard J. Rauser       "Sonic 2!"
rauser@sfu.ca                -what Guile says
WNI
 
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13001 rec.humor:24482 talk.religion.misc:12644 sci.skeptic:13187
From: cadams@athena.cs.uga.edu (Clark Adams)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,talk.religion.misc,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:34:10 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <1992Jul24.164931.142181@cs.cmu.edu> rudis+@cs.cmu.edu (Rujith S DeSilva) writes:
>
>A nice argument, but I don't quite agree with your conclusion.  One does not
>have to believe or disbelieve in the DBB; one can merely say that one doesn't
>know.  Of course, the real test is when one is forced to decide whether to do
>or not to do something depending on whether the DBB exists or not.  In this
>case, I see no alternative to resorting to probabilities as you did, or to
>Occam's razor (perhaps the same idea in a different guise?).
>
>Anyway, here's the obligatory anecdote (for the benefit of rec.humor): Some
>philosopher/theologician, when questioned as to whether he believes in God,
>replied, [paraphrased] ``Either God exists or He doesn't.  Either I believe in
>God or I don't.  Of the four possibilities, only one is to my disadvantage.
>To avoid that possibility, I believe in God.''
>
>BTW, could someone tell me who said the above?
>
>Rujith de Silva.
>Carnegie-Mellon University.

Thsis is a version of Pascal's Wager , Blaise Pascal, French Cartesian 
theologian.  This is fallacious for a couple of reasons:  1) Which god? and
2)it assumes a dichotomy between atheism and Christianiyty.

THOUGHTfully Yours:
Clark Adams
cadams@athena.cs.uga.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: alisg@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.books.reviews
Subject: Re: RAH
Date: 27 Jul 92 03:30:04 GMT
Reply-To: alisg@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University

>> In article <1992Jul24.130651@IASTATE.EDU> mcoffin@IASTATE.EDU (Marie Coffin)
>writes:
>> >I read Farnham's Freehold a long time ago, and liked it.  The plot is nicely
>> >worked out, tight, and interesting.  For some reason, it was never very
>> >popular.  
>> 
I'll take your word for it that _Farnham's Freehold_ wasn't popular, but since
an earlier post indicated that it went through 21 printings in 22 years, I take
it that popularity is a relative thing.

I read a lot of the stuff that Heinlein wrote for younger readers, both when I
was a kid and later, after I started working as a high school librarian. Some
of it held up very well - anyone else like _Double Star_? - but others, such as
_Starship Troopers_, were well-nigh unreadable.

That leads me to my question: Have any of you gone back and re-read books from
any genre that you loved/liked as a child, up through, say, high school? Did
the book hold up well?  Was it awful? Why do you think either reaction
happened? I took a children's lit course this summer, and had to re-read
_Charlotte's Web_. I'm really sorry I did, since I had liked it as a kid. I
really disliked it as an adult. On the other hand, just about all the Ray
Bradbury that I liked once, I still like. _Rascal_(a children's story about a
pet raccoon) was so good that I think I enjoyed it as much if not more as an
adult.

Anyway, if this is not approriate fare for the net, I'd be glad to hear from
anyone via e-mail. Cheers!

  ***************************************************************************
  * George 'Notso' Suttle            * When Time recently announced the     *
  * SUTTLE/LIB@RENNE.LIB.MONTANA.EDU * discovery of a miles-wide fungus,    *
  * alisg@MtsUnix1.bitnet            * the largest and possibly oldest      *
  * Fax: 406-994-2851                * known living thing, readers wrote in *
  *                                  * immediately to ask "Can I eat it?"   *
  ***************************************************************************
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13236 rec.humor:24684 talk.religion.misc:12803 sci.skeptic:13295
From: yaron@anchor.as.utexas.edu (Mr. Sheffer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,talk.religion.misc,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:21:07 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.books
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <srutt.711951273@beagle> srutt@boulder.Colorado.EDU (DNA Kaifeng) writes:
>an atheist is one who BELIEVES that 
>God does NOT exist and an agnostic is one who is simply skeptical about
>the existence of God.

Gee. I wonder where do I belong in this scheme. I, for one, KNOW that GOD
does not exist. Oh, silly me, I almost forgot. I am a REALIST.

Ronny

ObJ:
One fine Sunday morning, after church, mother carrot, father carrot, and
baby carrot were cruising in the family car. Unfortunately, they slipped
off the road and crashed into a tree. Both carrot parents were only mildy
injured, but baby carrot was rushed to the hospital for emergency surgery.
Mom and Dad are waiting one hour, two hours, three hours... Finally,
the doctor comes out, and they rush to him to find what happened to their
baby carrot. The doc says "I have good news and bad news. Which one
would you like to hear first?" Father carrot says "We wanna hear the good
news!" So the doctor says "Well, your baby carrot is not going to die!"
Relieved, they ask the doc for the bad news, and he answers "Unfortunately,
she's gonna stay a vegetable for the rest of her life!"
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13161 sci.philosophy.meta:1345
From: kyrie@coos.dartmouth.edu (Thomas S. Marlowe)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,talk.religion.misc,sci.skeptic,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 31 Jul 92 01:42:12 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH


Grr.

Agnostic = a + gnostic = not knowing
Atheist  = a + theist  = not God

Agnositicism is not a belief.  It simply means
that the person does not know whether there
is a god or not.

Atheism is a belief.  It is a belief that
there is not a God, just as a monotheist
believes there is one God and a polytheist
believes in many gods.

TSM

PS that misspelling is a typo, ignore it, ok?
--
"Law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice, and that when
they fail to do this they become dangerously structured dams that block
the flow of social progress." -  Martin Luther King, Jr
------------------>Thomas.S.Marlowe@Dartmouth.edu<-----------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett)
Subject: Re: RAH    SPOILER!!!!!!!
Organization: Cooperative Institute for Research in the Environmental Sciences
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:15:12 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.235628.24822@crd.ge.com> kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover) writes:
>In article <1992Jul24.130651@IASTATE.EDU> mcoffin@IASTATE.EDU (Marie Coffin) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul24.163227.4521@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk>, ccaajmf@ucl.ac.uk (John
>>Franks) writes:
>...
>>> 
>>> By the way, it starts off with a nuclear holocaust and - among other things -
>>> a "young, pretty, intelligent female" type character - much like any of the
>>> ones in many of his other books - dies (with her child) in child-birth. This
>>> really surprised me. 
>>> 
>>> Comments? Thoughts?
>>
>>I read Farnham's Freehold a long time ago, and liked it.  The plot is nicely
>>worked out, tight, and interesting.  For some reason, it was never very
>>popular.  
>
>Spoilers follow.
>
>I suppose transmogrifying the East vs West conflict into Black vs
>White had something to do with it.
>
>Farnham's daughter dies, in childbirth, after being congratulated
>by Farnham for contributing to the survival of the freehold.
>
>Farnham's son never amounts to much, in fact goes over to the
>other camp, along with his mother, Farnham's wife.
>
>Farnham takes up with a strange woman, while possibly being able
>to have been considered as still married.
>
>None of these is likely to be seen as wonderful, the issue of
>nuclear war was too close to reality to be dismissed as escape
>fiction, and none of the characters in _Farnham's Freehold_ is as
>sympathetic as those in _Stranger in a Strange Land_
>
>
>While we are at it, how many reading this went out and tried to
>make ammonium tri-iodide from household chemicals, raise your
>hands, please?
>
>Those of you who actually succeeded, leave your hands up.
>How many of you have all your fingers and eyes and things?
>
>Thought so.
>8-)
>
>
>-- 
>David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against

I'm a big fan of RAH since way back, and have read all of his books until
"Friday" which I found so repulsive that I stopped reading them. What has always
really amazed me was how prophetic he was. I remember laughing when I read
in "Space Cadet" that the protaganist (and many other characters) carried 
a little portable phone on his person. Ha Ha! How could you ever have a
phone that someone could carry with them so easily, right?

What made me think of that is the translation in F.F. from East West confrontation
to White Black. If you recall however, it wasn't really White Black, the way it
happened was that after the U.S., Europe, and the U.S.S.R. self-destructed 
in an atomic war, the main survivors were people in Africa. Take a look
at the emerging furture problems in the world, and they're going to be North
vs. South.

Another thing he was constantly predicting was an atomic war. Thank God he
wasn't right all the time.

			Ed Hartnett