HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mwlucas@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Michael W. Lucas)
Subject: Original D&D (Was Re:  Dumb Moves by Game Companies)
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 13:12:11 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.223425.8273@netcom.com> akuma@netcom.com (Steven E Barnes) writes:
>
>I was looking through the original 3 book set several weeks
>ago (good for a lot of laughs).  This game (if you can actually
>figure it out) was not role playing.  It was a wargame.
>There are all kinds of great lines, like one explaining that
>the ideal size for a dungeon expedition was 50+ characters,
>or that a good ratio of player to DM was something like
>20:1.  I don't have the books with me, so I can't be exact
>about it...
>
>Somehow, this game evolved into role playing.  Was it Arneson
>and Gygax who did it, or someone else?  I don't know.
>I favor the theory that gamers, unable to figure out the
>rules, started doing Their Own Thing, and ended up with
>gaming styles far different than the authors intended.

I've played D&D under Dave Arnesen (he was GOH at NOVA two years ago).
He did not change D&D into a RPG, at least from what I could tell.

We went on the adventure.

We fought many things.

When interacting wil someone, a 1d20 roll against Charisma determined the
success of the request/interaction.  NOT what the players said, no matter
how reasonable the request was.  If the characters wanted a room for the
night at an inn, a 1d20 roll against CHA determined if the innkeeper liked
our face and let us stay, no matter what attempts we made at roleplaying.

We had a 20-person group, and Dave had no trouble handling us.

On the other hand, in his defense, we all had a great time with the 
miniatures-style individual-level wargame.  It resembles certain computer
games much more than the "modern" FRP style.  Loads of fun, but not much
role-playing.  No character development, lots of neat stuff and epic
battles.


-- 
"No, no, no!  Slash _parallel_ to your arm, not across!"
	-Leck's Suicide Hotline (from Ivan Brunetti's _Misery Loves Comedy_)
		mwlucas@vela.acs.oakland.edu
From: by670@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Marc-Eivind Cruz Evensen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SRII: Physical Adepts
Date: 10 Jan 1993 07:46:06 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


    Physical Adepts... when first published, the rules for PAs gave SR new
life for some of us... in SRII, I don't believe that anything has been lost.
Even though the automatic successes are gone, the PA has an impressive
range of abilities available to him/her, among the most interesting is
the combat sense/danger sense. With the additions from the Grimoire II, 
PAs have even more intersting abilities.
    Even though they are not quite a match for a full samurai (although I
have made and seen some VERY impressive PAs which could give almost any
sam a hard time), the PA doesn't stop there, because he has MAGIC and 
ESSENCE. First, ask any mage who he would like to heal, a PA at Essence 6, or
a sam at essence near zero. Next, ask who you would want when fighting
spirits -- a sam with a SMG, or a PA with STR S Killing Hands (count as
magic weapons). Add to this the ability to completely hide your abilities
from most people (and even more if you initiate) and throw in the style of
the "natural boy" or the martial artist supreme, and you get a character
who brings a unique set of abilities and styles into almost any campaign.
    A previous point was made: play the character, not the power. The way I
see it, with a carefully constructed PA, you get the best of both worlds.*

-- Marc

* this is NOT to say that other archetypes are inferior in any way. I am
partial to PAs, but enjoy normal sams and mages all the same. I just feel
that PAs add a sense of exoticism that other archetypes lack, or have less
of.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: durrant@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Subject: Baby Face and Vampire Sexuality
Keywords: Vampires Sex Hubba Hubba
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 02:42:16 GMT


The published suppliments define quite well what the deal is with vampire and
sex.  On page 10 of the V:tM second edition, the section called "Anatomia
Vampirica" states that 
		"One last question remains _re corporis_--a somewhat prurient
	one, which I shall answer with as much delicacy as I may.  Through
	the popular entertainments, the vampire has become established as a
	highly potent figure of romance--and betimes of more than romance. 
	While the act of love is physically possible for a vampire of either
	sex, the associated impulses, drives and responses have died along with
	the flesh--which, incidentally, is cold to the touch rather than warm.
	By effort of will we may go through the motions, forcing blood to the
	relevant areas in the same way as healing a wound, but that is all.
	The ecstasy of the Kiss replaces all such needs within us.  Bloodis
	the only object of our desire."

The player's guide also talks about how sex can be a very easy way of feeding.
The way we handle it in our Chronicle is that Kindred are capable of the act,
but don't get anything out of it--those with Baby Face are warm and can enjoy
it a little.  We also say, however, that if you have recently fed you are 
warm to the touch.  Several members in our party use sex as their favored methodof feeding (including me) and two members of our group have even had a highly
sexual relationship for almost the entire Chronicle--however, we share blood
during the act to get the feelings.  Another member is "married" to a NPC
Toredador--mutually blood bonded.

Christine

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: gip207@sci.kun.nl (gip2 course)
Subject: Vampire: yet another question
Keywords: Vampire
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 12:00:11 GMT

Thanks for all of you who answered my first questions, I'll probably use the
dice-splitting and bonus dice for parrying with the second weapon rules that
Bryant suggested (thanks for that). And the willpower cost of 2 would probably
make sense except that my players only average a willpower 6 anyway (having
squandered all their freebies on backgrounds and secondary skills).

Now for one question I forgot in my last post. This one is about the Thauma-
turgic Paths mentioned in the Sourcebook (Movement of the Mind, Lure of
Flames and Weather Control). The alternate paths mentioned in the Players
Guide (which is still 1st Edition as far as I can tell) seem to work like
disciplines but those in the sourcbook don't make any sense at all. For
instance at Lure of Flames it is mentioned that only small flames can be
created at lower levels of abilities, but the only indication given on the
size of the fires is the number of successes rolled, and a roll of this
kind is easier at lower levels and so has a greater chance of creating larger
fires......

The only alterations I can think of is that the successes mentioned at the end
of the Path descriptions should be replaced by rating points but even then they
don't make perfect sense. Any suggestions on this subject would be most 
welcome.

			-Jos
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: jacobus@symphony.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Re: RQ: The Relation of the Red Goddess and Orlanth
Keywords: runequest,rq,gods
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 19:34:08 GMT

>Why is the Red Goddess killing Orlanth?  And how?



Poor fellow, our Red Goddess is not killing Orlanth.  In truth, we are
restoring him to his true position.  Orlanth is just a fragment of a god,
his existence is no more a true living state than the twitchings of a severed
limb.

It is our Goddess's will that Orlanth be restored to his original owner,
the Creator.  In a sense, Orlanth will "die" in that his false independent
existence will end after he has once again taken his proper place in the
restored universe.




Don't listen to that chaos bitch-priestess!  The Red Bitch wants to kill
Orlanth because she knows that, so long as Orlanth lives, Chaos will not
be able to destroy the world.  Her Chaos-tainted religion cannot hold the
minds of the true peoples of Prax so long at Orlanth stands guard against
her.  And we all know how that chaos bitch means to kill Orlanth--she 
means to spread her honey-lies and turn us all to Chaos worship--which is
her worship--then, when the soldiers of Orlanth can no longer watch his
back, her broo-skulkers and Thed-lovers will strike from behind like the
cowards they are.  They wish to buy our souls and then feed them to Chaos
like we trade and eat cattle.
From: laurence@cco.caltech.edu (Dustin Lee Laurence)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: net.hero.bestiary
Date: 11 Jan 1993 21:28:01 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

I take a rather different attitude toward this sort of thing; I am not
interested in dealing with a company that distributes something that
nominally encourages creativity but does not want you to tell another
soul about it (or only a few souls, below some arbitrary magic number).
This is as unreasonable as any position TSR or anyone else has ever
taken.

The number of "supplements" available for a game rarely affect the market
for more supplements; consider GURPS, xD&D, or any number of games that
might come readily to your mind.  If shareware supplements threaten the
sales of Hero's own material, then Hero needs to either radically raise
the quality of it's work or suffer the consequences.

I suspect that the truth is entirely the opposite; a shareware supplement
ought to be very good for Hero.  It means that supporting material is
being generated without them spending a nickel, and nothing stops them
from looking it over, contacting the authors of things they like, and
publishing the stuff themselves.  It's got to beat paying people to write
things in advance.

I agree that it would be nice to send Hero a copy as a matter of courtesy,
but if it threatens their market then that is entirely their fault.  And
if they object, then I'd probably buy less of their material on the grounds
that I don't want to support a company so short-sighted that it wants to
suppress the creativity that they should be supporting.  I also imagine
that Hero is smarter than this anyway.

-- 
Dustin Laurence       "As sensitive and broad-minded humans, we must never
                       allow ourselves to be in any way judgmental of the
laurence@alice         religious practices of other people, even when these
caltech.edu           people clearly are raving space loons." -- Dave Barry
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: jlperkin@eos.ncsu.edu (JERRY LEE PERKINSON)
Subject: Re: SRII:  Physical Adepts
Originator: jlperkin@c00748-400wi.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: jlperkin@eos.ncsu.edu (JERRY LEE PERKINSON)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:32:17 GMT


In article <C0HxCL.B13@visix.com>, gray@visix.com (Gray Jones) writes:
|>Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
|>Path: taco!gatech!destroyer!caen!uunet!psinntp!viper!visix!gray
|>From: gray@visix.com (Gray Jones)
|>Subject: SRII:  Physical Adepts
|>Sender: news@visix.com
|>Message-ID: <C0HxCL.B13@visix.com>
|>Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 13:14:45 EST
|>Reply-To: gray@visix.com (Gray Jones)
|>Organization: Visix Software, Reston, Virginia
|>Lines: 28
|>
|>Wow, SRII sure did knock those crazy physical adepts down a peg or two....
|>
|>I just want to double check, are there any misprints in the physical adept
|>section of the SRII book?
|>
|>Did the game designers decide that a starting Physical Adept should not be
|>a match for a starting Samurai?
|>
[example deleted]
|> I think it is rediculous that
|>a PA must be a grade 6 initiate to have the same initiative as a starting samurai.
|>
|>If there is no misprint, could somebody please post some useful house rules that put the
|>PA somewhere between SR (where they were too powerful) and SRII.

PAs just aren't intended to be "fast."  Their strengths come in their other
abilities.  Being able to use a weapon focus is quite nice.  Also extra dice
can come in quite handy as well.  Astral perception, etc.  PAs are good in 
meele, or possibly even firearms, they just aren't as fast.  They do have a
useful niche in the game though.  (i.e. it means the Street Samurai is actually
useful)  It has been quite a while since I've seen the Street Sam. have a fair
balance, and that required Shadow Tech and revamping the PA.

Killjoy, eater of diskettes.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: mfterman@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Mutant for Hire)
Subject: True Reason
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: mfterman@phoenix.princeton.edu (Mutant for Hire)
Organization: Mutant for Hire, Inc.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:28:52 GMT

In article <C0LzvB.JwJ@rice.edu>, swaim@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Parks Swaim) writes:
>  Or it could just be people's faith by itself. People with True Reason
>have the same limited ability to resist magic. (A lot of us think True
>Reason's silly, but it looks like WW's moving away from an absolute 
>position that God is the creator of the universe.)

I always considered True Reason a shift from a metaphorical view of the
world to a purely mathematical view of the world, decoupled from psychological
(or spiritual if you will) values. Logic over emotion. There is no magic,
merely invarient laws of nature following precise equations. No Heaven, Hell
or Faerie.

True Reason is a lame concept as implemented. I'd prefer much more a generic
"Domain of Faith in X" type deal. The stronger the belief in an area, the
more that the concepts of that particular faith. Human faith is stronger
than Faerie faith (at least in human regions), so a belief that Divine forces
are superior to Faerie forces suddenly means that Faeries are vulnerable to
Divine forces. At least in areas dominated by the Church. While the Church
does say that magic is wrong, it does allow for its existance, hence magic
is still working, though the reservations the Church has may explain some of
the weakening of it from the old days.

It also allows for pagan and other non-Xtian religions as well. Note that
partial compatibility in doctrine could allow Jews and Moslems to function
with greater ease in Christian domans than for Taoists, for example. There
is a certain amount of pagan rituals and beliefs in certain wild areas and
in the peasantry (the fact that the Church remade various pagan rituals to
Christian ones helps) so that pagan ceremonies still have a certain force
still working for them.

So in the game you'd have Faith in Reason as opposed to True Reason,
though it would have just about the same results. As time passes, the
more it grows in strength, as the other forces grow weak, as Faith in
Reason denies the existance of any other Domain.

Opinions?
-- 
    Martin Terman, Mutant for Hire, Mean Ol' Top, Priest of Shub-Internet
    Disclaimer: Nobody else takes me seriously, why should you be the first?
mfterman@phoenix.princeton.edu mfterman@pucc.bitnet terman@pupgga.princeton.edu
"Sig quotes are like bumper stickers, only without the same sense of relevance"
From: by670@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Marc-Eivind Cruz Evensen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Killing Attacks
Date: 10 Jan 1993 20:24:56 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Steve,

    One thing I'd like to find out: what is your (or your group's) interpratation of the killing attack rules with regard to armor (this could change the
entire context of the debate). As I recall, we were able to find at least
two different rules regarding the effects of various defenses on killing
attacks, with examples in the books which further confused the issue.

    On the point of my statement about moderation: Killing attacks do not
become a problem unless restraint is not exercised. It may be the case that
you are experienced, but the problems you illustrate do not indicate
self-restraint. Playing a game for "several years" does not necessarily
mean that you practice game balance dynamics in a group, on the contrary,
it could mean that you are all the more willing and able to exploit the
rules to your own advantage. (BTW, I've been playing HERO SYstem since
before it was HERO System, and existed solely as Champions).

    On the variability of stun: That's what Killing attacks do! This is an
attempt to add a small bit of reality to the game -- a sword blow, for
instance may do a certain amount of damage, creating a large or small amount
of stun, depending on where it hit. The d6-1, admittedly is a bit random,
and I prefer the hit location table myself, but it is much better than
a set multiplier.

-- Marc
From: jdelacr@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Jorge DeLaCruz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: superhero game suggestions
Date: 7 Jan 93 19:58:37 GMT
Organization: The Great Beyond

In article <6842@npri6.npri.com> murphy@npri6.npri.com (David P. Murphy) writes:
>i am sheduled to begin GMing a superhero game (our group finally got tired
>of AD&D and wants a change :-) and would like to hear opinions about 
>HERO CHAMPIONS or any other system.  for instance, what is "Superworld"?
>is there any merit in the Marvel (c) system?  is there a decent combination
>of dicing and role-playing?  how about realism vs. fun?  and finally,
>why don't my local dealers know anything about superhero games?
>

	My group started to play villian and vigilantes, but the guy with
    the rule book, and knew the  game bummed out.  But the Characters are
    simple to make, random roles, but it may not be what you want.

	I also played Marvel Supers once, also a random role chart.  But the
    characters come out to powerful.


	We've played GURPS Supers for a while, it takes a while to make a 
    Character and fine tune, but you generally get what you want.  They system
    takes a while to learn, but it isn't really that bad.

	Depending on how detailed you what to be, GURPS Basic and GURPS Supers
    is all you need, but their are GURPS Supers books with sample characters,
    a Martical Arts and High-Tech Weapons Books for those Super Normals.  Hope
    That Helps.


						Jorge
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: Custom built for Lemmings <ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu>
Subject: Re: SRII:  Questions....
X-Posting-Software: GNUS 3.14.1 [ NNTP-based News Reader for GNU Emacs ]
X-Signature-Virus-Protection: Version 1.51
X-Get-A-Clue: Have two, they're small.
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 00:57:13 GMT

>>>>> On Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:06:43 GMT, gray@visix.com (Gray Jones) said:

Gray> When I use fletchette bullets (and shotgun shells) the book says that
Gray> I should raise the damage category one level against unarmored
Gray> targets.  What about armored targets?

Since the book doesn't say anything, you don't do anything. Flechettes
bounce off of rigid armor quite nicely, thankyouverymuch.

Gray> Question 2:

Gray> The Street Samurai archetype has more than 6 points of essence in
Gray> cyberware.  Why?  Is this a misprint or are there new rules on
Gray> cyberware beyond six points of essence (like in the new samurai
Gray> catalog?)?

That is a mistake. Drop the Muscle Replacement from 2 to 1 and you're all
set. And don't forget to drop the Combat Pool from 8 to 7.

The "new" Street Samurai Catalog is the old Street Samurai Catalog with the
SRII tables. There's nothing new in the "new" SSC.

--Rat                               PGP Public Key Block available upon request
||||| | | | |  |  |  |   |   |    |    |    |   |   |  |  |  |  | | | | | |||||
Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat          ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
Carpe Joltem! (Seize the Caffeine)                                         --Me
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: bcd@fang.att.com (Brendan Dwyer)
Subject: Re: Dumb Moves By Game Companies
Organization: AT&T Tax Systems Development, Maitland FL
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 05:15:59 GMT

Games Workshop puts out a great line of figures for WH40K but the rules
suck the wormy turds out of a dogs ass.  Also, the way GW packages figures
forces games stores to buy lots of figures they don't need to get some they
do need.   GW seems to have contempt for their distributors and customers.


Brendan Dwyer

"Hurry Father!   The heathen is getting away!"  Ned Flanders Jr.


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (RedSwordTarga)
Subject: Re: A Shadowrun Question (both 1st and 2nd ed.)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:37:49 GMT

KIRSCH@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de (Juergen Kirsch) writes:

>Hello chummers,

>How can a SIN less fly a Helicopter without getting shot by the first official
>aircraft he meet?

Well, that depends on what I feel is the most erroneous SR assumption, i.e.,
that all the players are SINless. In almost all other cyberpunk style games,
being totally removed from the computer banks is an advantage. Personally,
I feel unless your character background explains your being SINless for
a reason, you have one.

Oh, on the flying thing...So much black ops stuff is going on that the
"Police" aren't dumb enough to try and nab everyone doing something 
sneaky. Yeah, one group may be Shadowrunners, but the other one may
be a corp black ops team.

Axly
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc