HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Subject: Re: Pakistan
Reply-To: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:04:41 GMT

In article <1g5gj1INN520@crewcut.cs.utexas.edu>, hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan
Hyder) writes:
> In article <samaddar.723407473@dumbo> samaddar@siemens.com writes:
> >
> >IMHO, creation of Pakistan was based on a self-fulfilling prophesy viz;
> >Muslims won't be treated fairly in Hindu-majority India. Creation of
Pakistan
> >contributed to the animosity between the two communities. Let me speculate
> 
> Please do speculate, but don't try to turn history on its head.
> 
> How will you explain Shuddi and Sanghtan organizations in the 1920s
> and thousands of Muslims dying from the riots that
> broke out during the decade flared by the hate mongering of
> Swami Shirdhanand (sp ?).
> 



Perhaps muslims were not blameless themselves. 

Perhaps the fact that an influential section of the muslim 'ulema' preached
hatred was also a factor.

Perhaps the fact that "one cannot clap with both hands" i.e. attitudes of many
muslims viv-a-vis was a factor in giving rise to hate was also a factor. 

Perhaps the fact that some muslims have this screwed up notion that the set of
"Islamic" attitudes contains only one element - duplicating the culture of
Arabia/Persia (what you many times call-the slavish mentality) which they hope
to spread it to the rest of India i.e. *the Muslim's burden* was also a factor. 
Perhaps the fact that many Muslims always divided up the world into Muslim and
non-muslim having a negative connotation to the fact was also a factor. 

Perhaps the fact that Iqbal crystallised the concept of two nations as a direct
result of an age-old popular belief among the "scholars" that muslims cannot
live with "non-believers" was also a factor.

Perhaps the fact that Iqbal his ilk had an inherent "hatred" for Hindu customs
and beliefs was a factor.
 
In any case the solution to the problem could be found not by deserting your
motherland and causing further bloodshed, but by staying within the system and
fighting hate-mongering and prejudice.





> Just to keep the record straight.
> 
> The riots discouraged Mohammad Ali Jinnah from the ideal of Hindu-Muslim
> unity that he was the supporter of  before 1920. He left for  England
> and only returned on the convincing of Iqbal, the person who is credited
> for the idea of two-nation theory. Note that these riots were a catylst
>  in the publication of Nehru report. To the reply of which
> Mohammad Ali Jinnah came up with the 14 points, explaining very
> clearly what is meant by the two -nation theory.
> 
> 






--Javed.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: dbose@aem.umn.edu (Deepak Bose)
Subject: Re: DEMONSTRATION - PAKISTAN EMBASSY - Re: PERSECUTION OF MUSLIMS IN INDIA
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:45:34 GMT

P.Hasan@cs.ucl.ac.uk (Pervaiz Hasan) writes:

>Bismillahirrahmanirrahim

>Assalam-o-alaikum Brs & Srs,


>----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>	  MUSLIMS OF INDIA, WILL THEIR CRY GO UNHEARD !!!!



 THE CRY OF MUSLIMS IN INDIA WILL CERTAINLY NOT GO UNHEARD BUT

 YOUR CRY TO DEFAME HINDUSTAN WILL SURELY GO UNHEARD .




>  It is the duty ie fard of the Muslim governments to do everything
>in their power to come to the aid of Muslims in India ;especially
>those governments who are in close proximity to the area,like
>Bangladesh and Pakistan.We would like to encourage the Pakistani
>government to take the following measures:
^^^^^^^^^^^

YOU CALL THAT "GOVERNMENT" < I CALL THEM A BUNCH OF BASTARDS WAITING

FOR THE ARMY GENERAL TO KICK THEM OUT >

	HA HA HA !!!!


>  1) Break off diplomatic relations with India;maintaining any
>relationship with a government presiding over  a vicious onslaught
>against Muslims is totally unacceptable.


WE ARE NOT VERY KEEN TO HAVE A RELATION WITH YOU .

WE DON"T WANT OUR DIPLOMATS TO GET HARASSED IN PAK.

	SHAME SHAME PAKISTAN !!!!!

>  2)Pakistan should lobby the Gulf States to impose a total trade
>ban(especially an oil embargo) on India and expell all Hindus in their
>territories.                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


WHAT IF INDIANS EXPELLED ALL THE MUSLIMS FROM THEIR TERRITORY ?


>  3)Additionally they should lobby all Muslim countries to break off
>diplomatic ties with the murderous Indian regime.


	HE   HE   HE   !!!
	F**k YOU MAN !!!


>  4)If Pakistan's Generals really want to undertake some
>comprehensively Islamic action,then they should use all means
>necessary to the lives,property and honour of Muslims in India.


THEY CAN"T DO ANYTHING BECAUSE THEY ARE SCARED !!!
THEY HAVE HAD BAD EXPERIENCES WITH INDIA !!!



>DEMONSTRATE!!!!DEMONSTRATE!!!!DEMONSTRATE!!!!DEMONSTRATE!!!!DEMONSTRAT



COME COME !! ALL MUSLIMS ! WASTE YOUR VALUABLE TIME FOR NOTHING !!!!



		HINDUSTAN ZINDABAD !!!!!
From: imustafa@slate.mines.colorado.edu (MUSTAFA IBRAHIM )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: DO WE NEED RELIGION OR DEVELOPMENT ?
Date: 14 Dec 92 16:34:03 GMT
Organization: Colorado School of Mines

In article <14DEC199208203155@vxcrna.cern.ch> mirza@vxcrna.cern.ch (MIRZA,I./EP) writes:
>In article <1992Dec13.231533.6952@gw.wmich.edu>, x92nath@gw.wmich.edu writes...
>>hi netters,
>>...deleted
>
>	First we need religion to reduce the number of people.
>	Development will follow thereafter.
>
>Mirza Ilyas

Let us start reducing the number of people from your family !
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan)
Subject: Re: A SPECIAL RAG NEWS FLASH --- BABRI MOSQUE... apology
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 20:25:57 GMT

>
>>Our source was befundled by the news, but was adamant that after much thought
>>it had to be true, because Pakistan has been responsible for all the problems
>>faced by India. 
>
>
>>******************************************************************************
>>editor-in-chief sahibzada rafay khan
>>editor Tanveer Mohd.
>>reporter farrukh shah khan
>>	 jehangir hashmi
>>*******************************************************************************
>
>
>Hey, how come my name is not on the list ??  My only fault is that I
>wrote some articles about NEPPA and some other idiots.  First, you 
>people took my Honda and now you did this !!!!!!!
>
>Watch out guys ! You know that I'm a Rampuri Pathan, plus I will complain
>to brother Hamza.
>
>						shocked,
>							Naufal Khan.

Our Most humblest aplogies, No? We at the Rag our very sorry
for missing out your name .......................

p.s. naufal its the new editor i have employed, always messes up things

editor -in - chief

p.p.s a few articles written by you, might help in our NEW MYTH
exploding RAG coming to the newstands next week.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:18323 soc.culture.bangladesh:6802
From: un032053@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Victory Day in Bangladesh
Date: 17 Dec 92 05:08:22 GMT
Organization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing

To the Citizens of Bangladesh:

Congratulations on the day of victory against military dictators who 
have robbed and looted every one regardless of the ethnic origion of 
their prey.

A Pakistani

Khalid
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: rairan@ecf.toronto.edu (RAI Ranjan)
Subject: Re: Washington Ready to Brand Pakistan a Terrorist State
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 08:24:58 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.145211.28197@allegra.att.com> ssh@allegra.att.com (syed s haider) writes:
>In article <Dec.16.20.20.14.1992.15621@paul.rutgers.edu> varma@paul.rutgers.edu (not yet) writes:
>>
>>          Washington Ready to Brand Pakistan a Terrorist State
>>
>>The United States government is seriously considering branding
>>pakistan a terrorist state, Western diplomats in Islamabad said
>>yesterday.
>>
>>The point at issue is Pakistan's perceived support for militant
>>Muslim separatists in Indian-controlled Kashmir.
>>
>>A report in a local newspaper on Saturday quoted sources "close"
>>to the state department as saying that "Pakistan's training facilities
>>and material assistance" to Kashmiri guerillas made its addition to
>>the list "obligatory".
>>
                 <some stuff deleted above>
>
>Interesting.  Regardless of whether one considers the Kashmiri Muslims
>separatists, terrorists, guerillas, or freedom fighters, one has only to
>look at U.S. foreign policy towards [and her interference in] Central
>America in the recent past to come to the conclusion that the U.S. belongs
>very near the top of that list.  Nicaragua and El Salvador come readily
>to mind.
>
>Syed Shehryar Haider
>ssh@allegra.att.com

I find this whole business rather ironic.  Pakistan has been kissing Uncle 
Sam's red, white, and blue ass for over forty years and this is the way
the US pays them back.  On the other hand, India has stubbornly insisted
on it's non-aligned stutus since 1947, and now the US is doing it's best to
be friendly towards India.  Maybe Pakistan should start behaving more like 
India.  Any thoughts?

Well, at least now Pakistan can claim the moral high ground and join the 
ranks of such nation states as Nicaragua and El Salvador.

PS.  It's a damn shame George Bush did not win re-election.  Things were
going so good.

-- 
Ranjan Rai                             <rairan@ecf.toronto.edu> 
Engineering Science 9T3                <rr@odin.control.toronto.edu> 
University of Toronto                    
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian
From: jawad@ecst.csuchico.edu (Jawad Ali)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Mandir Dha dai, Masjid Dha dai
Keywords: riots, Babri Masjid
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:33:11 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <aftab.724341923@nsisrv> aftab@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Aftab Ahmad;MU-SPIN/CESDIS) writes:
>	Some saintly person said it:
>
>
>	Mandir dha dai, Masjid dha dai, dha dai jo kujh dhaida
>	daikh kissay da dil na torei'N Rub dila'N wich rhainda


	Per jay dil museetay rhainda hoay?                   :-)


>I keep wondering why so many poeple like this verse. Why didn't they
>criticize it or bacame against the saint who said it.

Now you Know.

>
>	After all, he would have prefered to demolish all these places to
>save one innocent life.

Yes, but he lived in this world where the demolition costs
lives instead of saving them.  The beauty of the his paradox 
is that hearts do break at the demolition.

j n a
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Pir Altaf Hussain retires! His greatest contribution!
Date: 18 Dec 1992 09:58:51 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Dec17.175028.14272@panix.com> imran@panix.com (Imran Anwar) writes:
>
:ALTAF NAMES AZIM TARIQ AS MQM CHAIRMAN, QUITS POLITICS
:MQM	 Chief Altaf Hussain has announced his dissociation from politics on 
:health reasons.  In a fax message received in newspaper office here from 
:London, he said he had taken this decision in the best interest of the nation 
:and MQM.

The only  sensible decision of a Pakistani politician.
I guess he had no other choice.
May be he is too afraid to face music on his return.
This has been his greatest gift and greatest contribution
to mohajirs!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: imran@panix.com (Imran Anwar)
Subject: PakistaNews Text Files Until New Year - #1211
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:43:57 GMT
Organization: IMRAN: Information & Media Resources, Affiliations, Networks

This may be a repeat for some sites:

OPPOSITION PROPOSALS WELCOME

Prime Minister Mohammad Nawaz Sharif said a two-member
committee has been appointed to work for consensus with the
opposition for formulation its policy on the issue of Babri
Masjid.

OPPOSITION FAILS TO ADOPT RESOLUTION

The All Parties Conference was called off without adopting any
resolution on Babri Masjid after four hours of deliberations here
at the residence of PDP leader Mir Akram.

PRAYERS DAY TODAY FOR SAFETY OF INDIAN MUSLIMS

the Muslims the world over and particularly `those living in
Pakistan will observe `Prayers Day' to offer special prayers for
the Indian Muslims on the appeal of Prime Minister Mohammad
Nawaz Sharif on Friday.

STEPS TO PROMOTE WOMEN'S EMPLOYMENT

The government is taking special measures to bring the women
in the mainstream of employment by improving their skills
through education and training in numerous fields.

MOTORBIKE INDUSTRY BURDENED WITH HEAVY TAXES

While Prime Minister's self-finance transport scheme has made
a big difference in the economic life of the people, the
motorcycle manufacturers, both in the public and private
sectors, keen to lend support to Prime Minister's efforts in
providing cheap transport to the poor and needy, are faced with
a big dilemma.

NO CHILD ABUSE IN CARPET INDUSTRY

The ILO report on the employment of children in the carpet
industry is incorrect and misleading and is based on wrong and
fictitious facts and figures supplied by quarters which want to
damage Pakistan carpet exports in the International Market.
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: NEARLY A DOZEN MOSQUES DESTROYED YESTERDAY
Date: 15 Dec 1992 14:49:45 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <3332@ucl-cs.uucp> B.Kumar@cs.ucl.ac.uk writes:
>Repl to: soc.culture.indian, soc.culture.pakistan, soc.culture.bangladesh

>1) Why did Allah destroyed mosques which were build to pray him
>not one, but five times a day by very devout people?

Allah's reply Sura 6

53. And thus do We try some of them by others so that they
say: Are these they upon whom Allah has conferred benefit from
among us? Does not Allah best know the grateful?


Allah's reply in Sura 8 of Quran that can be translated as:

37. That Allah might separate the impure from the good, and
put the impure, some of it upon the other, and pile it up
together, then cast it into hell; these it is that are the losers.

>
>
>3) Can Allah be declared a fanatic of other religion for destroying 
>places of worship?

Allah's reply in Sura 16  that can be translated as:

 70. And Allah has created you, then He causes you to die,
 and of you is he who is brought back to the worst part of
 life, so that after having knowledge he does not know
 anything; surely Allah is Knowing, Powerful.

>
>4) Can Allah be banned for religious offence?

Allah says  in Sura 6 that can be translated as:

65. Say: He has the power that He should send on you a
chastisement from above you or from beneath your feet, or that
He should throw you into confusion, (making you) of different
parties; and make some of you taste the fighting of others. See
how We repeat the communications that they may
understand.

>
>6) can isssue be raised in UN security council for this anti-islamic
>act of Allah by Organisation of Islamic Nations?
>

Allah reply in Sura 6 that can be translated as:

64. Say: Allah delivers you from them and from every distress,
but again you set up others (with Him).
		     ^^^^^
		     [like UN?]
>
>5) Is there a quranic sura that explains why Allah himself caused
>destruction of mosque? Is there any hadith about it?


Quran is filled with replies to such questions. It seems all
the different prophets were asked the same questions.
I guess not much intellectual "evolution"
has not been taking place in this regard!!!!!!!!!!!

Think before you leap!





Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: arun@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (Arun Achyuthan)
Subject: Addresses of PM of Pakistan etc.
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 06:09:29 GMT

Friends:

If any of you know the address (exact with any postal code) of
Nawaz Sharif, the Prime Minister of Pakistan, could you please
mail it to me (arun@vlsi.waterloo)? This is in connection with
our sending of the letter to the Pms of India, Pakistan, and
Bangladesh.

I would also greatly appreceate if any of you can provide me with
the names and addresses of prominent English language dailies of
Pakistan.

Thanks in advance,
Arun Achyuthan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Time of WI vs PAK WSC match
From: S.G.Abbas@massey.ac.nz (S.G. Abbas)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 23:49:17 GMT
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c



Dear Syed Ahmed,
Aslam-o-Alaikoom,

I know that this match is a day/night. According to NZ time i\the
commentry will start at 5.00 PM.

Is it possible for you to figure out time at your own place.

Ghazanfar Abbas
New Zealand

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: hasn@midway.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: DEMONSTRATION - PAKISTAN EMBASSY - Re: PERSECUTION OF MUSLIMS IN INDIA
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:31:13 GMT

In article <3336@ucl-cs.uucp>, P.Hasan@cs.ucl.ac.uk (Pervaiz Hasan) writes:
> 

> 	There is a demonstration on Friday after Jumma at the Pakistan Embassy
> in London (details are given below). 
> When will the muslims wake up - Palestine, Kashmir, Bosnia, India ..... 
> Every muslims should look at himself regarding each of these situtions and 
> see if he/she has fullfilled his/her duty. 
> Are the muslims not concerned that their Sister are getting raped that their
> brothers are being tortured & killed, and their children are being abused and
> murdered.

There are more muslims murdered, raped and abused by muslims
than by people of any other religion.  So are the muslims going
to wake up and demostrate against themselves?  


>   1) Break off diplomatic relations with India;maintaining any
> relationship with a government presiding over  a vicious onslaught
> against Muslims is totally unacceptable.

Good progressive move Parvez!  That will truly solve all the 
problems of muslims by breaking off ties with India.  
You're obviously just look ing for a scapegoat for your hatred and
for blaming the problems of muslims upon.  And you found one.
Lets look within our own societies to see who really is to
blame.  Considering that most muslim women that get
raped by muslim men, should all muslim men be 
castrated and punished?  That is the value of your statement.

>   2)Pakistan should lobby the Gulf States to impose a total trade
> ban(especially an oil embargo) on India and expell all Hindus in their
> territories.

This is absurd.  How would you like Britain, the US and other non-
muslim countries expelling all muslims?  After all plenty of
terrorist acts performed by muslim groups 
have cost the lives of thousands in these (and other)
countries.  The Hindus in (so-called)
muslim countries are respectable people, totally innocent of 
committing the attrocity in Ayodhia.  Will a river of blood
satisfy your conscience Parvez?  Maybe muslims should 
take the initiative of starting peace rather than keep up
this farce of solidarity. 
> 
>   3)Additionally they should lobby all Muslim countries to break off
> diplomatic ties with the murderous Indian regime.

The Pakistani regimes of the past have by any means been
more murderous than the Indian Regime.  Lets not be
so bigoted, Parvez.  Why dont you fight for peace in 
Pakistan?  Dont you care about the homeland of subcontinental
muslims?
> 
>   4)If Pakistan's Generals really want to undertake some
> comprehensively Islamic action,then they should use all means
> necessary to the lives,property and honour of Muslims in India.

Like the Pakistani generals honored the Hindus, Christians and
Parsis etc of Pakistan when they made Pakistan an Islamic 
republic, right?  If you want a secular government, gear your
efforts at home, Parvez.
My advice to muslims:  THINK! THINK! THINK! 
                                      BEFORE YOU ACT!
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: mirza@vxcrna.cern.ch (MIRZA,I./EP)
Subject: some news
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 13:14:00 GMT

    Two interesting items from the lattest Embassy News Bulletin
    1. Scheme allowing duty free purchase of cars, motorcycles etc
    --------------------------------------------------------------
        The Government of Pakistan has approved a scheme allowing
    duty free purchase of Motor Cycles, Suzuki Vans and Cars assembled
    in Pakistan as well as import of other cars against home remittances
    by overseas Pakistanis provided that the purchaser or importer produces
    a certificate from the bank that the requisite amount of foreign exchange
    has been remitted through banking channels as home remittances in
    accordance with the procedures prescribed by the State Bank of Pakistan.

        Entitlement for duty free       Remittance in US Dollars
        purchase/import                 needed for entitlement

        800cc car locally assembled     $30,000.00
        1000cc car locally assembled    $75,000.00
        1000cc car imported             $200,000.00
        1200/1300cc car imported        $500,000.00
        1600cc car imported             $1,500,000.00
        2000cc car imported             $2,500,000.00
        above imported                  $5,000,000,00

        The duty free car will be released by the customs authorities
    on production of the following documents;
    a) certificate from the bank verifying the home remittances as
       aprescribed by the State Bank of Pakistan.
    b) Invoices.
    c) Bill of landing.
    d) Bank's receipt for the payment of license fee.
    e) National Identity Card and Passport of the importer.

    2. Laser Printed Computerized Identity cards
    --------------------------------------------
        The Government of Pakistan has introduced new computerized identity
    Cards. At present the computerized cards are only issued to persons
    who are holding Identity Cards issued to them from Rawalpindi/Islamabad
    districts.
        The new registartion Form RG-1 (B-Automation) printed by the
    Pakistan Postal Services Corporation will be available in this
    Embassy (Berne-Switzerland) shortly on nominal payment as under:-
    1)  Cost of Registration Form (RG-1)         Rs. 1/-
    2)  Cost of Adhesive stamp for printing
        computerized Identity Card.              Rs. 5/-
    3)  Cost of Adhesive stamp for lost/
        revised computerized Identity Card.      Rs. 40/-

        It may however, be mentioned that the persons desirous of
    obtaining the form/adhesive stamps will have to apply well in
    advance so that these could be obtained from the concerned
    department in Pakistan.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Typos are mine.
    For further details please contact your nearest embassy.
    In Berne, Bernastrasse 47, 3005 Berne, tel:031/442992, fax:031/435440.


Mirza Ilyas

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: dbose@aem.umn.edu (Deepak Bose)
Subject: Re: GHANDI
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:15:10 GMT


>In <Byy0C3.J0o@dcs.ed.ac.uk> maya@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Mohammed Ayaz) writes:

>>Question 

>>How many hindus can you get in a mini ?

>>Answer

>>6, 3 in the back 2 in the front and Ghandi in the ashtray.

>>Ha ha ha.
>>         ________________________
>>        |                        |
>> 
 	QUESTION :

	HOW MANY MUSLIM L*NDS CAN YOU FIND IN A MINI ???


	ANSWER :

	TWO AND A HALF


	HALF + HALF       IN FRONT

	HALF + HALF + HALF    IN THE BACK

	______----------------------------------------

	PROBABLY HALF MORE IF JINNAH IS ALLOWED

	IN THE ASHTRAY .


	HA   HA   HA   HA   HA   HA  !!!!!!
	HO   HO   HO   HO   HO   HO  !!!!!!

	HI   HI    HI    HI    HI   HI   !!!!!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian