From: gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: What is Sex to God?
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:56:31 GMT
Organization: Stay Awake Software

<1992Aug18.124519.25933@menudo.uh.edu> HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.) said:
><1992Aug17.172854.6645@coopsol.com> gordons@coopsol.com writes:
>> <1992Aug14.134746.29912@menudo.uh.edu> HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.):
...
>> >Luke 14:26 "If any man come unto me, and hate not his father, and mother, and 
>> >            wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own 
>> >	    life also, he cannot be my disciple.
>> >
>> >Luke 14:27 "And whosoever does not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot
>> >	   be my disciple."
>> >
>> > And now the verse I consider crucial to figuring out what this means:
>> >
>> >Luke 14:28 "For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down
>> >	    first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish
>> >	    it?
>> >
>> > Luke 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to
>> >	    finish it, all that beholden it begin to mock him,
>> >
>> > Luke 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish."
>> >
>> > 14:31-32 give a similar example of a king wanting to make war with not enough
>> > soldiers.  Finally:
>> >
>> > Luke 14:33 "So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all he 
>> >	     hath, he cannot be my disciple."
>> >
>> >  I read it thusly:  One could not become a disciple without first being
>> >prepared to give up all that he had, "counting the cost."  It is not a
>> >simple command to "hate your parents." It was a very honest observation
>> >that following him was not going to be any kind of cakewalk.
>> 
>> In your opinion, with your liberal interpretation.  Not only does he
>> explicitely tell you to hate your family, but he also commands that you
>> give up all that you own.  Note that he didn't qualify that statement by
>> saying "give up the things that you like better than me".  He said "ALL".
>> 
>> If you don't hate your family, and you continue to own possesions YOU
>> CANNOT FOLLOW CHRIST, by his own words.  Many Christians twist his words
>> so that they can get away with owning things.  Tsk, tsk.
>> Gordon
>
>  Gordon, you obviously know nothing about having a flair for the dramatic.

Really?

>Perhaps you should explain why your interpretation is any better than mine--

*Mine* isn't an interpretation, yours is.  All I did was quote his words
in context.  You're the one who feels the need to draw all sorts of
unwarrented conclusions from his simple commands.

>all I see is two people reading what they want to see.  You take the absololute
>literal words (and if we were to do that all the time, we'd never get anything
>done--remember the "duck" example?), without concern for lots of other things
>he said.  

He said many things (including that he came here to bring a sword, to put
father against son, mother against daughter).  But in this case he 
specifically tells you that you must *hate* you parents if you are to 
follow him.

>          Christians are also told to love their enemies, forgive them, turn 
>the other cheek, and hate sin, not the sinner--commands at odds with your
>interpretation.  

Nope.  I made no interpretation.  You did.


Gordon
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