From: wslee@almond-frost.ai.mit.edu (Whay S. Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: scholarship: a joke ? ( was: UM )
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:56:02 GMT


	This is a long message.  If you are NOT prepared to 
read and understand the article in its entirety before flaming,
please kindly skip this article.  Thank you.

	Comments welcome.  Flames > /dev/null



Whay S. Lee.





In article <1992Sep30.015629.16343@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg>, 
eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
|> mlt@gdwb.oz.au (Mee Teng) writes:
|> : some 'connections'. As for the private scholarships advertised
|> : like Bank Bumi, MTC, & some other foundations, the non-bumi's
|> : have a better chance, but still extremely limited. 
|> : But even then many of them are marked
|> : for BUMI'S ONLY !!!!
|> : In conclusion, 4A's or 5A's do not mean much anymore for
|> : the non-BUMI's.They would still secure a place in local uni's
|> : but not a scholarship from JBA even if you sleep outside the 
|> 
|> You seem to think that only JPA offers scholarships. It is therefore obvious
|> to me that you have not bothered to even apply because of your biased views.
|> Reread my posts and try to understand them.

	I think I agree with Othman.  It seems to me that far too many chinese 
are using the scarcity of opportunities as excuse, and just give up, stop trying.  
Mee Teng mentioned Bank Bumi, MTC etc ... but perhaps people do not realize 
that there is a list out there containing names and addresses of some
hundreds of organizations in Malaysia that offer scholarships to Malaysians, 
bumis and non-bumis... Where's the list, you may ask.  Well, I don't have it 
anymore.  But it was given to me by my seniors.  I am lucky to have come from a 
high school with a very organized career guidance unit, and we keep a pretty 
good database of availability of financial aid/scholarship ....  Now you may say 
I am just lucky to have come from that school where everything is spoon-fed to 
us, but then again, the list was initiated and compiled by students ..  
We ( my school as a collective ) put in the efforts to monitor the papers,
to get feedback from people, to keep track of our alumni .... perhaps 
if people were cooperative enough, everyone would have had such a list.

In article <1992Sep30.015629.16343@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg>, 
eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
|> 	I also have a chinese couple who got JPA scholarships and graduated
|> in 1990, so I'm not just taliking about 1970s. Most of my experiences are in
|> the 80s.

In article <3278@peking.gdwb.oz.au>, mlt@gdwb.oz.au (Mee Teng) writes:
|> .... [stuff deleted] ..... As I told En. Othman the gov't does relax
|> the rules from time to time . If you are talking about mid 70's or so
|> I agree that many non - Bumis have not much problems getting a
|> scholarship especially if the results are good. A large number of my 
|> classmate (including myself are on scholarships too !) But how about
|> in the early 80's ??

	1988 .  [ I am not THAT old, you know ... 8-) ... ]

In article <1992Sep28.213812.14951@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, 
mhmann@nyx.cs.du.edu (Me Mann) writes:
|> >    I went to UM with 16 of my high school classmates.  We shared a house 
|> >in PJ, so we all know each other very well.  All 16 of us are chinese.  11 
|> >were doing engineering, the rest medicine/dentistry.  All but one were supported 
|> >by scholarship or a loan.  The one who wasn't, was eligible for a Kojadi (MCA) loan.
|> 
|> Note that a loan is different from a scholarship!!!. Most people can
|> get a loan if their family can mortgage their property or sign as
|> collateral.    Furthermore the previous poster was lamenting about 
|> the difficulty of getting a scholarship if u are non-bumis due to
|> the very limited numbers or other scholarships either offered
|> by private bussinesses or philantrophists.

        I should have said that about 5 of us got loans, the others were 
on scholarship. The loans I refer to are education loans, free of interest,  
free of collateral.

        So please allow me to rephrase.   The 10 chinese from the same 
high school who got scholarships were darn lucky.

        As you say, Mann, nothing is easy.

In article <1992Sep28.213812.14951@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, 
mhmann@nyx.cs.du.edu (Me Mann) writes:
|> Remember that the number of Chinese in UKM or UTM does not reflect the
|> precentage of Chinese in M'sia. It is save to say, I think, that the
|> number of Chinese that are qualified far out number the qouta alot
|> tothem. In UTM when I was admited non-bumis account for about 16 % of
|> the new in take. Out of this 16 % I wonder how many have a gorventment
|> scholarship? Not me and the few other chinese I knew. It did not take
|> me long to quit and return to my school to do my A levels.  Yes, most
|> Chinese who are good are supported by scholarships, especially those
|> who can make the grades but many more who are deserving, people who
|> could only manage say 2As would be hard pressed to get one . Aas for
|> gorvenment sscholarships, perhaps only a token number are given. Can
|> someone supply some statistics? This is similar to saying well Chinese
|> do get admitted to Med/Engine in the local U so it is not difficult
|> for Chinese to get into these courses but the fact is many derserving
|> ones are not admitted.

        All too true.  Agreed absolutely.  My post was solely refering to 
the all-too-common lament that Chinese don't get scholarships. 
My counter-claim is that chinese do, but it is very very hard.  If one
doesn't put in enough effort, then one doesn't stand a chance. 
	
	Incidentally, how come no one quoted the intake ratio
of the Law Faculty in UM ... If the trend hasn't changed, that
number may surprise people ... My recollection is outdated,
so could someone give a recent number ?

In article <1992Sep28.213812.14951@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, 
mhmann@nyx.cs.du.edu (Me Mann) writes:
|> U have to be careful here. Is it assistantship or scholarship?  
|> The majority of the grads in US are supported by assistantship
|> which requires you to perform services in return.

        100 % tuition grant for me and my brother.  Undergratuate studies.
We are foreigners in USA.

In article <1992Sep28.213812.14951@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, 
mhmann@nyx.cs.du.edu (Me Mann) writes:
|> >eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
|> >|> How come these students do not get scholarships for overseas studies, whereas
|> >|> some who are not as qualified can?
|> 
|> Very true and you know who most of them are?  No prize for the correct 
|> answer. 
|>  ...... stuff deleted .....
|>
|> I guess the other knows where the opportunities are.  You can also ask
|> why the big towkay who does not even know how to write his own name
|> can ride a Benz and live in big houses and many who are more educated
|> don`t?

        This is a very precise observation.  Take Loh Boon Siew (owner of 
Honda) for example ... I don't quite believe that there were too many 
opportunities around during his time, or else everyone his age would be
as rich by now.  But he found the opportunity, and he made it big.
The same seems to be true about scholarship, opportunities are extermely
scarce, and perhaps one just has to go looking for them.  

In article <1992Sep28.213812.14951@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, 
mhmann@nyx.cs.du.edu (Me Mann) writes:
|> The suggestions of exhausting all possibility is a very good one.  It
|> does not only apply to getting scholarship but in almost everything
|> one do.  The lament is there are few M'sian scholarships available for
|> CHinese (Indian) considering the number of derserving or qqualified
|> ones compared to the bumis. These stats. are obvious if you look
|> around you in many campuses in the US.  The majority of M'sians in
|> most cases are bumis and they are here on scholarship. On other hand
|> you will find some Chinese, more in some places and less in others, but
|> almost all are here either on their own (undergrads esp) or are under
|> some form of assistantship given by their University here in the US.

In article <1992Sep28.213812.14951@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, 
mhmann@nyx.cs.du.edu (Me Mann) writes:
|> > [ quoted from wslee@almond-frost.ai.mit.edu ]
|> > I think that some of us tend to blame it all on the government, 
|> >on "the system" ...  it may or may not be true, I don't know. It seems all
|> >too easy to point fingers.  But I recall a saying in chinese: "when the horse dies, 
|> 
|> I do not agree with you here.  It is obvious that  the bulk of the 
|> gorvenment scholarships are taken up by the bumis.. you mean there
|> is nothing wrong with such a system?  I guess it depends on which end you
|> stand. I find many M'sian Chinese very forgiving and treat M'sia
|> as their country with great loyalty despite all the double standards.
|> I find it hard to swallow when Zam (long forgotten?) questioned
|> their loyalty and ability to speak /wrrite Bahasa Malaysia. 

        Perhaps you question where I stand. Well, if you remember the one 
who wrote a 2 page reply in B.M....  that was yours truly.  

	Yes, Malaysia is my country (a fact is a fact), 
despite all the double standards. 

        No, I don't like the system either.  I don't know if it is
right or wrong.    But I don't think lamenting
about it is going to change anything.  An old classmate of mine
also hates the system, but doesn't go around lamenting.  On the other
hand, he is comtemplating going into politics in Malaysia after his degree.
IMHO, that is the way to change things, to get involved directly.
Public laments only add to the misunderstanding and confusion, 
won't do us much good, IMHO.

        Again, it is interesting to inquire what people mean by the word 
"deserving".  Does that refer to paper qualification, or the amount of 
efforts put in ? There are those who come from the kampungs, have no
access to libraries, can't afford to buy Yakin/Delta/Heinemann books, 
have to help work the farms to feed the family, whose schools have a far 
lower teacher-to-student ratio, whose nearest bookshop is ten miles away
.......  For them, just passing is an achievement in itself, taking no
less effort than that put in by those who scored 4A's.

And people may say, "well, some of us have to work too" ... true, me too.  
But the difference being that we as majority city-dwellers 
have access to the facilities, the tools to help us learn.  We can go work 
in McDonalds or give private tuition to earn money to buy books.  But 
what do you do in a kampung where the majority are farmers to earn cash 
as a teenager ?  perhaps that in itself may be an unfair advantage ?  
So what value is the paper qualification ? 

        I am not saying that "the system" is good or bad. I am merely
suggesting that we look deeper into the issues before lamenting. I realise
that there are chinese students who come from kampungs.  And to those
who did, and managed to make it big dispite the disadvantages, I salute
them, whatever color they may be.

	Incidentally, I think Othman has been presenting some
very concrete and critical points in this discussion.


Whay S. Lee
"when the horse dies, go forward on foot".