HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes)
Subject: Re: Gauntman -- he IS dangerous, novels not withstanding
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Organization: University of North Texas
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Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:17:46 GMT

[anthony greenes question - "why did the GM fail by overconfidence,
 yet Dr Mo gets away with it all the time?" - deleted]

yes, the Nile WLs should hose Mo right and left, but he aint stupid -
he knows that four out of five "perfect" plans will be stopped,
even if the ARE perfect, because the Nile supports the heroes.
he keeps many plans in the air, and many overgovernors on staff
to keep the heroes busy, and maybe one will eventually work
(by the LoDrama, shit will always happen, no matter how perfect the plan -
 he hopes to win by sheer volume, but still makes "perfect" plans out of ego)

so why did the GM fall so quick, after doing so good for so long?
think about it - what are his strong suits? PoFear and the occult.
the PoF wont help in a less than direct confrontation
(mara and the group WERE sneaking around, with thratch's help)
and the occult takes to long to be an efficient weapon -
its greatest ability is like reasearch, to find out things ahead of time

the GM probably depended on his occult "early warning system" to save him,
but this was circumvented by Heketon, who wanted him gone
(if you cant trust your DD, who can you trust)
the GM had set up the "perfect" plan, but realised it needed help
(the poss sorter, the lack of Thark on CE, etc)
he was just blindsided by Heketon, NOT the party

(my take on the novel?  mara gets a cunning plan, and a martyr card, 
 they set the portal, Heketon, who had been feeding the GM less than
 accurate details through the occult, sees his chance, supports the 
 portal and mara, distracts the GM, and BAMMO!, instant maelstrom.
 the party throws the escape card, the (other) GM cuts off maras hand -
 it WAS a martyr card! - and we go to the next book - the nemesis card...)

your watchmen reference was quite apt -
its just that the GM was Dr M, and Heketon was Ozymandius...

dave "insert above quote here" oakes
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 14:55:08 -0600
From: aodn307@BONGO.CC.UTEXAS.EDU(Joshua Henry Geurink)
Reply-To: torg@MORTICIA.CNNS.UNT.EDU(Torg Mailing List)
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Subject: Re:  You did WHAT to WHOM?!?
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QUIT
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: cpearce@nemesis.acs.unt.edu (Chris Pearce)
Subject: Re: Archive and GodNet...Good News
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Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:23:21 GMT

> OK, but what does MUSH stand for?  

> I don't have time to MUD or MUSH these days anyway.....  :(

Just circumventing a question: MOO stands for MUD Object-oriented, I believe.
I don't know what MUSH stands for.

> | ___                    | |#include "voodoo.h"| | "Sufficiently advanced  |
> |  | elestro ip Wandrun, | \-------------------/ |  technology is          |

-- 
Chris Pearce -- cpearce@nemesis.acs.unt.edu
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: wolf@cheshire.oxy.edu (Clinton Richard Wolf)
Subject: Re:  My Tharkpost
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:36:19 GMT

In article <gatemail1.0b324125502118@morticia> Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu> writes:
>Smooge foams at the mouth:
>
>> I like the imagary that you used. I really do. I wished they had used it
>
>The big battle between thousands of tharkoldu and men in power suits
>at the end of "City of Demons" is a major FUBAR (F*ck Up Beyond All
>Reason) that there is no real excuse for.  The writer of the module
>said that he wanted the end to be a grand-scale 'James Bond-like'
                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 'James Bond like?'

 Stupid. Stupid stupid stupid! 

 GET WITH THE GENRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Clint, I can't believe the guy seriously went and designed a Tharkold ad-
          venture like a James Bond movie...
From: jogle@aoc.nrao.edu (Ks. Jim)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Stupid questions
Date: 15 Nov 92 18:15:31 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
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Clinton writes:

> >The Almt. Ks. Jim had the same opinion that "Cry Havoc" pretty well a
> >transcript of an adventure.  The only possible problem with this hypothesis

Actually, I'm pretty sure the author himself admitted on GEnie that it
was a writeup of an adventure he ran.  Rick, do you remember if John
said that or if he just said the characters were from him campaign?

[...]

>  Yah, well, I posted mine before KJ, it just arrived late, I guess, so nyah!

Well, your reply never arrived at my site (all the replies to it have
though) so it must be really late!

> *grin*. But anyway, I doubt the transformation was pre-plotted by the author.
> I think that either a) he totally misunderstood the Torg rules on disconnection
> vs. transformation, so that's what happened in the game, and thus the story,
> or b) she didn't really transform, it was an embellishment added later, and

I really hope it was an embellishment, since the author of that story,
John Terra, is the one who has also written next month's module in
which the Gaunt Man returns and the autobiography of the Gaunt Man
novel, due out next year sometime.  If he's that far out in left field
(compared to the way I see the rules) with his rule interpretations it
could be bad....

> -- Clint, BTW, did I mention I got FIRST PRIZE? *thwack!* ooch. Thanks.

Which creature was it for?  And be wary of letter bombs from Dave.
8-)

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
From: jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu (James H. Kiley)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Stupid questions
Date: 15 Nov 92 20:43:24 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
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On Sun, 15 Nov 1992, Clinton Richard Wolf wrote:

> -- Clint, so, cash or merchandise? I want feedback, darn it!

	Cash.
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: cdr@kpc.com (Carl Rigney)
Subject: Re: GM vs Demon
Summary: feasting on the heart of coyote
Organization: Kanawa Pacific Computer Inc, Santa Clara, CA
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 13:22:37 GMT

Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu> asks:
>
>You mean the High Lords aren't Plot Devices? 8-)

No, no, the High Lords aren't Plot Devices.  It's Mobius that's
constructing a Plot Device that will allow him to Rule the World.
After all, if Storm Knights defeat most but not all of his plots, by
automating the creation of plots he can overwhelm and destroy them, and
then the road is clear to World Domination and (dare one suggest?
Dare!) TORGhood!

Besides, I prefer the idea of Jezrael seducing The Gaunt Man into
long intellectual discussions of the similarities and differences
between Pain and Fear, and they toy with each other in endless
convoluted plots that even Great Mobius would find confusing.

"That's not wicked.  That's just good sense."

But Jez' true love should still be the WotD.

--
Carl Rigney
cdr@kpc.com

"What is THIS gizmo?"
	"It's a plot device.  Be *very* careful with that dial?"
"You mean this dial?"
		"Uh oh."
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re: Flintlocks vs. bows
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:53:21 GMT

Colin writes:

> That's the point of being p-rated -- you can take reckless chances with a
> very good probability of coming through relatively unscathed.  Ords,

I'm not saying that it is a bad thing for PCs to charge into gunfire
with little concern for personal safety, it just isn't going to be
very realistic.  Personally, I'm not too concerned with it since the
PCs are supposed to do heroic (ie, foolhardy 8-) things anyway.

> though, *do* fear pistols.  Usually, though, if I have to make up a damage
> value from scratch, my method is, "How much would this do to an average
> person?", meaning a TOU 8  Ord.  If it should kill the Ord, then the
> damage will be set to something like 8+12=20, for a moderately good bonus.
>  From this point of view, pisol damage does seem to be too undervalued.

An average ord will be knocked unconcious with as few as nine or so
result points so, accounting for a moderate bonus roll, a damage value
of 15 is pretty reasonable for a small pistol.  No, it won't kill an
ord but it is generally shock that kills someone anyway, not the
actual wound (for small wounds of course).  There really isn't
anything to account for shock in TORG but if there was, even one wound
could be fatal.

> > (Ok Dave, now you can leap in and start arguing for rules
> > on getting bonuses to Intimidations when using weapons. 8-)
> 
> Hey, gm's discretion.  You can put in whatever modifiers seem appropriate.
> If character A just vapourised npc 1 with a Thav-Nu, and then points said
> Thav-Nu at npc 2 and smiles, I think that's worth an intimidation bonus. 
> For anyone who plays Hero system, think of using the Presence Attack
> bonuses as Intimidation modifiers.

That I have no real problem with - what Dave wanted was a bonus for
just pointing a weapon at someone even if they haven't seen it in use
(or you do something nondamaging like firing over their heads).  It's a
good idea and has precedent in the cinematic genre, but if you can get
a better Intimidation result by using a weapon its just going to
increase the Big Guns (tm) problem and leave all those weaponless
people out of luck (may be realistic, but doesn't make for good
roleplaying.)  

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
From: jogle@aoc.nrao.edu (Ks. Jim)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Campaign, characters, etc.
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:49:15 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
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Anthony writes:

> 	The Heart of Coyote:  exactly.  How could anyone POSSIBLY consider the
>Gaunt Man the most dangerous High Lord, or dangerous at all for that matter, if
> he could allow himself to be so easily incinerated by a group of Storm Knights
> of almost child-like stupidity!  Now it just testifies that to exactly how
> BAD the _Possibility_Wars_ novels really were that the supposed "Genius
> mastermind" behind this grand scale invasion of Earth would so easily let some
> pretentious group of strangers right into the most heavily fortified and
>nastily guarded fortresses in the country, without a problem whatsoever.  Worse
> yet, he lets one of said Storm Knights stuff an eternity shard down his pants. 
The Orrorsh sourcebook explains it by saying that Heketon "sacrificed" the
Gaunt Man as part of an Occult ritual, so normally the GM wouldn't be taken
out so easily.

Of course, what kind of story would it have been if the GM hadn't been taken
out of action?  "Oh look, stormers.  <ZAP - End of novels>".
 
Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: agreene@mta.ca
Subject: religion
Reply-To: agreene@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:33:11 GMT

This is just a philosophical question (no place in Torg), but I am curious...

Who named Aperios?


--Anthony Greene
-I found gospog inerds in my eggroll...

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: agreene@mta.ca
Subject: THARKOLD
Reply-To: agreene@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:24:22 GMT

The Almighty Kansas Jim writes:

>Maybe I should touch up the adjustments I made to Tharkold in my game
>and post them (I think I have before but don't remember exactly) - one
>of the major things I changed was the tharkoldu writeups.  They're
>still awful creatures but not as bad as they were before.
>
>Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)

	Please do post your changes.  I haven't picked up Tharkold
sourcebook, and from what I heard on this group I didn't really want to.
I do disagree with Jezrael being superior to other High Lords (experience
equals power, especially with a DD giving possibilities for stats and
skills over time).
	It doesn't seem like Tharkold, in itself, is much of a problem,
though.  I'm hesitant to put it in a game because Tharkold characters
would be totally superior to others, and many players would want to play
them.  The surest solution would be to introduce a new world law
for Tharkold (if there isn't one like this already...) that Tharkold
technology and magic (Occulttech, cyber, and whatever) cannot function
outside of a Tharkold realm.  Period.  Not a minor matter of one-case
contradictions (like they ever stop players...), but a simple imposibility
to create a contradiction, as if they were in a Pure zone of non-Tharkold
reality; the only way to make the equipment work would be to create
a reality bubble.
	As to the nuclear question, someone (I don't remember who, might
even have been in Infiniverse) said that Thark is not nuclear capable.
That need not be the case, but Thark nuclear weaponry would have no
possibility of working on Earth.
	I say let Tharkold be as much of a battleground as WEG wants it
to be; its not dangerous to the rest of the world if Thark SKs can't
corrupt the rest of the world with their miserable munchkin technology.

Just a thought, anyway...

--Anthony Greene
-the Gaunt Man puts cabbage in his pea soup...
From: jogle@aoc.nrao.edu (Ks. Jim)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Most Dangerous Highlord
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:16:53 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Smooge writes:

> KJ:
> ]It seems that over time my anti-Tharkold attitude has moved into
> ]Smooge and grown at an exponential rate...while the Thark SB is
> ]gravely lacking in good roleplaying information, the seed of it is
> ]still there...
> 
> If it were a Terminator cosm... it would have some roleplaying in the
> how to survive and lets remake civilization aspects. If it were Hell-
> raiser it would have role playing aspects... buty this hodgepodge
> crapping of them together seems to only bring out the big guns-kill-
> them-all ROLL playing. [Sorry I have a cold... and I am really anti
> munchkin today after letting myself get walked over by a couple of
> munchkins at the con.]

No problems with anyone being anti-munchkin. 8-)

The hodgepodge is workable - the hodgepodge that is the Cyberpapacy
works well (if they'd just do something with it already!) but Tharkold
suffers from the comparison, since its another genre-mix (bleak future
mixed with technohorror) but one that wasn't detailed as well (the
mechanics are all there, but where's the background and the all-
important "feel" of the cosm?)

> I will agree here. (Gee I didn't realize I came across as such a whiner
> about Jezreal... she is a munchkin bitch, though... My problem is that
> if you look at her stats/skills she has been made into someone who can
> outthink Mobius/3327... because she has to be more devious than a demon
> prince who have skills pumped too high.)

Maybe I should touch up the adjustments I made to Tharkold in my game
and post them (I think I have before but don't remember exactly) - one
of the major things I changed was the tharkoldu writeups.  They're
still awful creatures but not as bad as they were before.

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
From: bfbear@penn.Gwinnett.COM (Penn Collins)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Elvish Reality Master
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 16:37:24 EST

I misplaced that file- can someone please e-mail it to me?
thanks!

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: hudson@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu (Kevin Maurice Hudson)
Subject: Campaign, characters, etc.
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Organization: University of North Texas
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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:30:29 GMT

==> On Mon, 16 Nov 1992 12:21:29 +0500 (EST), Colin J. Wynne said:

  CJW> ???????  The Gaunt Man and his DD both have Occult skills of 30
  CJW> or higher!  Heketon's is somewhere in the 50's, I think?

  CJW> Do you know what that means?  Wish parsing!  Whatever they ask
  CJW> for, they get!  How much of a slough is that?  I'll tackle
  CJW> Malreaux over TGM *any* day!

Excuse me?  Wish parsing?  Wish parsing is dependant upon the Magic
Axiom; not the skill level.  No cosm is at the level to allow wish
parsing, although Aysle is close.  I believe it's around 20 or so to
start getting wish parsing.

--
hudson@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu		uhqfba@qentba.pcr.hybjryy.rqh
Kevin Hudson, Systems Manager		Xriva Uhqfba, Flfgrzf Znantre
Center for Productivity Enahncement	Pragre sbe Cebqhpgvivgl Ranuaprzrag
University of Massachusetts Lowell	Havirefvgl bs Znffnpuhfrggf Ybjryy
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: aodn307@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Joshua Henry Geurink)
Subject: Drama Duck?
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:21:57 GMT


Uh, I see that the original posting regarding the drama DECK may have
bounced (the hyperspace monster's big, nasty brother)...

As it'll take at least five days for me to see my message (holy slow,
Kansasman!), did anyone SEE the original, or do I have to reprint it?

	Thanks!
		Josh Geurink, CVE
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: gt7219a@prism.gatech.edu (the manatee)
Subject: priests of pantheons
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 06:22:44 GMT


When I originally suggested the use of specialization, 
I didn't actually have any sourcebooks with me and half
of my brain (doctors now believe) was not actually in this
cosmverse.  Here's how it might be handled using both 
specialization and the optional narrowing of skills rules:

Specialization gives you a +1 in some subset of a skill.  A
person with fire combat could specialize in pistols for
example.  The PC would have his normal skill in the general
skill catagory.  The cost of this is usually 1 poss.  For 
another 2 poss a character can be trademark specialized with
a definite item.  For example, a character could trademark
specialize with his "lucky" Colt 45 revolver.  This adds an
additional +2 to the skill, though the character is screwed 
if he loses his trademark item.

The Narrowing of skills optional rule makes a character pick
a primary and secondary field.  For example a character might
pick pistols as his primary skill and rifles as his secondary.
The character gets full adds in his primary skill, -1 add in
his secondary field and gets a 0 adds but skilled for 
everything else.

Now, bringing this all back to the religeon thing,  I'd say in
the Aysle pantheon a field might mean Honor, Corruption,
and Balance.  The trademark might be one of the Gods. There
are also miracles used by all (general type miracles) and
they would be another field.  Thus a priest of Dunad would
have trademark specialization in Dunad miracles getting
a +3 bonus, primary field of honor getting a +1 (the +3
earlier included this +1) and a secondary field of the 
general miracles getting a -1.  The total cos of this is 3
poss.

Or you might just have the character trademark specialize
in Dunad giving a +2 to casting Dunad miracles with no 
other bonuses or penalties.  The cost would then be 2 poss.

I can forsee some problems with this though.  With normal 
trademark specialization the character losses the plusses
if he loses the item, and that isn't too likely with a God.
I dunno, maybe make the TS worth only +1.  But I guess that's
what this infiniverse thing is for.

On another previous note there was discussion about how
to resolve faith(athiesm).  I once was playing a character
with faith(athieism) and someone else joined the party who
was playing a priest.  I made some general comments about
how in order to be fair I should try to disbelieve *every*
miracle arround me (not overlooking the ones beneficial to 
me) and pretty much all of the other players and the gm
criticized me for it and browbeated me into submission.  
Chalk one up for good roleplaying 8(.

I'm sorry this post was so long

the manatee


 
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: tgt33358@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Thanatos)
Subject: Re: Quantum Leap of Faith...
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 10:03:03 GMT

In article <gatemail1.0b324101481614@morticia> aodn307@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Joshua Henry Geurink) writes:
>
>
>	Hey!  I just got an idea!  Providing anyone remembers (and, boy,
>if you don't you dure have short memories!) the faith(science) discussions
>from a while back...
>
>	Whadda ya say to Project Quantum Leap coming about as a direct
>invocation to SCIENCE...  But instead of *poof* "here's your time-travel
>facility, little boy!", SCIENCE granted one Dr. Samuel Beckett a vision...
>that one could time travel within his own lifetime...
>
>	
Um...no.  As we all remebr from THE EPISODE WHICH MUST _NOT_ BE NAMED, Sam
is being sent from place to place by a guiding force outside the realm of 
traditional science, best seen when we meet the EVIL AL, in the episode 
in question.  True, a majority of the episodes deal with Sam actually doing
the things that will get Project Quantum Leap started, something is actually
making him change time. 

-- 
I don't mind being the smartest	    / Thanatos, DeathUrge, Master of Unknown
man in the world...I just wish it   \ Time and Space tgt33358@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu 
wasn't this one...	       	    / It's a Zen thing... 
	-Ozymandias 		    \	 you wouldn't understand...  
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg