HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 17:34:00 -0400 
From: "Arun K. Gupta" <ag3l+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Multiple wives


Oops, I didn't complete what I was writing:

Moreover, since for example alcohol was banned in stages, presumably
some of the sahaba did drink. But alcohol is easy to ban, what does
one do about pre-existing polygamous marriages ? (or slaves for that
matter ?) Therefore,...etc.

-arun
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: g9220348@cc.uow.edu.au (adil shaikh)
Subject: Re: 14 August.....
Keywords: Pakistan Zindabad
Organization: University Of Wollongong
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 06:54:38 GMT

amuh2@bu-pub.bu.edu (muhammad ahmed) writes:



>         Jis khet kay dehkaN ko muyyassar na ho rozi
>         Uss khet kay her khosha-e-gandum ko jalaa do.




Iqbal also said:



Sare Janha Se Achhchha Hindostan Hamara.
Hum  Bulbulain haiN iske yeh GulsitaN hamara.
(Tarana-e-Hindi)


>             Yeh jeena bhi koyee jeena hay lalloo.



>    Mera joota hay Japani, Yeh patloon Inglistani
>    Sir pay laal topi Russi, dil hay phir bhi hindustani.




The above two lines indicates how much you (Pakistanis)
are affected by Indians and their point of view.


>            ToR day butt khana-e-azar kay sub laat-o-manat
>            Muntizar hay teree zarb-e-la illah ka somnat.


Dr. Iqbal also said:


Her Subha Ko Uth Kar Ganye Mantar Voh Mithe Mithe
Sare PujariyonN Ko MaiN Prit ki Pila De.

Shakti Bhi Shanti bi Bhkton ke Git Main hai
Dharti ke BasiyoN ki Mukti Bhi Prit Main Hai

(Naya Shival)

(If above four lines are not in order then please correct it.)



>ISLAM ZINDABAD
>PAKISTAN PAINDABAD.


Allama Iqbal Said:


Mazhab Nahi Sikhata Apas main Baair rakhan
Hindi hain ham vatan hai Hindostan Hamara.




Alas! Dr. Iqbal Lahori also said:

TaigoN ke Sayen maiN pal kar JanvaN huai
Khanjar halal ka Quami Nishan Hamara.





Bye
Adil
From: mughal@iago.caltech.edu (ASIM M MUGHAL)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: shooting husbands(not to b taken seriously need i add) : )
Date: 30 Aug 92 07:57:00 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug30.015213.12044@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, alam@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (ALAM AFSHAN) writes...
>merchant@davidsys.com (Rukhsana Merchant) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug19.183759.1@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu>, ali@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu writes:
>>> I for one would shoot my good man in case he became interested in 
>>> acquiring another wife.  No doubt about it!!
>which reminds me.heh.
>this woman goes to the gun shop.'i'd like a gun for my husband please.'
>'did he specify what caliber he wanted?' 'r u kidding?he doesn't even
>know i'm going to shoot him.'
>and another. the crystal gazer says solemnly 'i'm afraid yr husband is
>gonna die soon' to which she replies impatiently 'i alrdy know that. but
>does yr crystal say anything about an enquiry?'
>then there's the nonviolent way of getting rid of a husband. this lady
>calls her lawyer 'i'd like a divorce.' 'do u have a reason for that?'
>'yes.i'm married.'
>:)
     	Good ones :)
> 
>>But then you would lose your good man!! ;-)  Just kidding!! I see your
>and u know what they say ab it being hard to find a good man or was it
>the other way around :)

     I have always marvelled at your playful sentences with possible
     hidden meanings, or is it the other way around ? P)
> 
>>> jahanara  
>>-Rukhsana
>Afshan.  uh-huh:)

Asim Mughal
[Standard Disclaimer]
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: minhaszt@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Zafar T Minhas)
Subject: Re: blue eyes shine ice
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 18:31:59 GMT

In article <714854830@flounder.cs.duke.edu> azhar@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar) writes:
>In article <24AUG199213552428@iago.caltech.edu> mughal@iago.caltech.edu (ASIM M MUGHAL) writes:
>>
>>"Blue eyes shine ice...
>>[Standard Disclaimer]
>
>	   Gimme dark eyes, black hair, and a heart of gold
>	   And, forever, my friend, I wont ask you for anymore
>

Amin ya rabbee!

>Salman [just another dsqa-original] Azhar
>
>

zafar
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: ahmad@seas.gwu.edu (Aftab Ahmad)
Subject: Urdu
Originator: ahmad@seas.gwu.edu
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:03:12 GMT

	Sorry for the length of the article. I have tried to be so
	brief, that there seem to be omissions.


	There has been a discussoin on Urdu in the past. Unfortunately,
	I couldn't follow it then. My opinion is that one of the biggest
	problems we are going to face in future is being without a language.

	The pros and cons of having Urdu as a National Language are
	a topic of constant debate. While one generation of Pakistan
	is giving responsibilities to the next, we find many areas in
	which we have a gross disadvantage. Urdu is one of them.

	The tragedies that have happened to Urdu since the birth of Pakistan
	are many:

	1. Disliking for India: THough there seems to be no connection
	between the two, the disliking passed down by our first generation
	for India has paid its price by eliminating any co-operation and
	exchange between Hindi and Urdu. We always introduce Urdu as an
	amalgam of Persian and Arabic but an Urdu speaking person hardly
	understands two people speaking Persian or Arabic. We definitely
	understand the most part of  Hindi conversation. I think the reason
	for this isolation from Hindi is the problem with Muslims that they
	blame people if someone raises a finger to Islam but blame the
	other religion if they see something wrong with their people. Hindi
	has been assumed as a language of Hinduism - thus boycotted.
	Terminology borrowed from Arabic and Persian has not been working
	well, at least after the birth of Pakistan.

	2. Fear of Change: The conservative structure of the society places
	an obstacle wherever improvements should be effected. This trend has
	stopped progress in all fields of life - let alone the language.

	3. There has been severe lack of patronage by (all) governments
	to the funding of new fields of research.

	4. The influencial class of people in Pakistan feel honored and
	proud to associate themselves to the Western culture, in their
	speech and manners, thus making Urdu a second class language.

	5. Due to the lack of establishment of a stable form of governent,
	the laws could not be translated/developed in Urdu. The British
	still rule us in legal form.

	6. We donot seem to be concerned about our future.

Given the situation my question to all is what are we doing for the 
	future of our National language. Some choices are:

	1. Realize that we are responsible for ourselves and take
	the pain of progressing instead of bragging. 
	2. Make another language as national, an advanced one, and
	just follow the developments in that language.
	3. Wait for Allah.

Is there any concern at all?
From: merchant@davidsys.com (Rukhsana Merchant)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Multiple wives
Date: 23 Aug 92 17:01:49 PST
Organization: DAVID Systems Inc, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Aug19.183759.1@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu>, ali@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu writes:
> In article <1992Aug18.101149.30461@davidsys.com>, merchant@davidsys.com (Rukhsana Merchant) writes:
>> 
>> 	The point of Islam allowing multiple wives is not an issue that
>> is debatable.  It is allowed and it is the sunnah of Prophet Muhammed (phuh)
>> and it is still valid today as it was fourteen centuries ago.  There are
>> **reasons why** it is permitted and the guidelines in Islam are for all
>> people and all time.  Those who disagree with the concept and call it
>> sexist and baised against women can choose not to practise it.  But when
>> people conclude to questioning the character of Prophet Muhammed (pbuh)
>> and theorizing that Islam deprives the rights of women, then, those
>> people haven't really understood what Islam has given to women.   
>> 
>> Islam is the exception.
> 
>   You're right there * were* definite reasons for allowing multiple
> wives, but most of those reasons do not exist today.  There is no

The reasons were not defined when the allowance was made, but I can
see many reasons why it is still a valid guideline today.  I stated
one in a previous reply,

> shortage of men for one thing (thank G-d :-)) and women, many women, 
> do not need to be taken care of, you and I are probably good examples.
That's true.

> I dont think it is a matter of questioning the Prophets (pbuh)
> character to call it a sexist rule, because the concept of sexism 
> didnt exist at that time; however it does exist today, and by
> definition allowing multiple wives is a sexist concept.  However to 
Well I don't agree.

> each his own and if someone feels he can treat more than one wife 
> equally and his wives agree to it then it is their personal business.
> I for one would shoot my good man in case he became interested in 
> acquiring another wife.  No doubt about it!!

But then you would lose your good man!! ;-)  Just kidding!! I see your
point.  But he has failed to respect your feelings if he does acquire
another wife without consideration to you.

> jahanara  
>> 
>> -Rukhsana Merchant

-Rukhsana

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: g9220348@cc.uow.edu.au (adil shaikh)
Subject: Re: PAKISTAN KA MATLUB KAYA ?   (PAPISTAN)
Organization: University Of Wollongong
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 22:21:00 GMT


Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal)
Subject: Islamic universalism (was Re: Polyandry in Tibet and ...)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:22:08 GMT

In article <24AUG199216072212@juliet.caltech.edu> mughal@juliet.caltech.edu (ASIM M MUGHAL) writes:
>     Islam presents a way a life and leaves it up to the masses to 
		   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     adopt it or not. It doesn't force everyone to practice it rather
>     it only shows them the distant light and awaits their drift toward it :)
>     {which is bound to happen if they open up their minds, methinks}
>

We seems to be going around in circles. The original thread about polyandry 
was to question the belief that this "WAY OF LIFE" is universal under all 
circumstances. The dictionary definition of something being universal means 
that it applies all over the universe at all times. The debates here could 
not prove that while polygyny should be universally accepted, polyandry 
should not be accepted even under the rarest circumstances. In other words,
no one could prove that certain beliefs followed by muslims is UNIVERSAL. 
Presenting a way of life and hoping everyone will drift towards it is not 
tantamount to saying that its beliefs should be universally applied. But 
when people say 'Islam is Universal', it gives the impression that these 
people actually want to IMPOSE their beliefs on others. Perhaps you should 
use some other word instead of "universal". If you teach your kids that 
Islamic beliefs are 'universal', then they are bound to get the impression
that what others follow is necessarily wrong and therefore it is their 
divine duty to correct them (by force if necessary). This infact is the 
phenomena that you see all over the world where a different style of 
prayer or eating or dressing cannot be accepted in countries with Islam as 
the predominant religion. 

regards,
--   
   ______ ______ ______ ______ __  |\/\/\/|
    ____/  __  /  __  /  __  /  /  |  \  /|   LIFE'S COMPLEX - IT HAS 
   / __   /   /  /   /  /   /  /   | (o)(o)   REAL & IMAGINARY PARTS  
  /   /  /   /   ___/  __  /  /    C      _) 
_____/ _____/ __/   __/ __/ ______/ | \___|  
E-mail - gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu       |   /   All Std. Disclaimers apply.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: Naseer Khan <khan@us17501.mdc.com>
Subject: Re: The Rag....  back.....
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 92 15:23:51 GMT
Organization: Somewhere in Sunny Southern California
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6CB7B0A5D01CDAB@l33359.mdc.com>
X-Xxdate: Thu, 3 Sep 92 16:19:22 GMT

In article ... Abdur Khan, arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU writes:

>* altaf hussain throws away his rayben and buys wayfarers for a cooler
image

Pardon me for being nitpicky but I always thought Wayfairers were Ray Bans
Did you mean to say that he gave up his Aviators..... I wouldn't want my
fellow SCP'ers to be unclear on a subject of this magnitude !!!  ;-)

>* Imran khan moves in with abdul qadir

I didn't know Imran was inclined that way.  Is that why he has so easily 
brushed off all those female advances in the past?  If he is, could
someone please get him to change his last name....???!!!

      |      |                        Signed:  Naseer Khan
      | (~)(o)                                 ___________
     C      _)
      | ,___|                                  khan@us17501.mdc.com
From: asim@heckle.ugcs.caltech.edu (A. M. Mughal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Islam a fascist .... NOT!
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:43:21 GMT
Organization: Caltech Undergraduate Computer Science

In article <1992Aug25.010334.629@sol.cs.wmich.edu> sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani) writes:
>In article <l9iqs9INN54e@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu>, hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:
>> In article <1992Aug24.204608.27253@tamsun.tamu.edu> gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal) writes:
>> >
>> >When saying that Islam is "tolerant", it means that there is scope 
>> >for forgiving infractions. All the more especially when the accused 
>> >is naive of what he/she is getting into. 
>> 
>> Well, if you one claims that USA's democracy is tolerant, then
>> would it also imply that USA should forgive infractions like
>> defrauding IRS?????
>> 
>> Dear Sir,
>> 
>> 	Tolerance is defined w.r.t a system and its own functioning.
>> Just as one can not apply the rules of "tolerance" of a cycle's
>> axle on the tolerance required for (say) an aeroplane's or a
>> train's axle, similarly, one should look for the definition
>> of tolerance in the context of the requirements of that system.
>> 
>> Now if you want to find out the "tolerance" of Islam, then
>> see where it allows tolerance, and by how much. 
>> 
>> In Islam, there is scope of forgiveness from Allah depending
>> upon one's relationship with HIM concerning ONLY one's
>> sins agains HIM. For sins committed against fellow
>> human beings, only the person wronged against can
>> forgive.  We, you or third party can not determine
>> forgiveness in a dispute between two people.
>
>If the person who was wronged is DEAD, then is it between 
>wrong doer and god ?
			Obviously, Nadeem bhai... :)
>
>regards,
>
>-Naveed
>
>
>


--

Asim Mughal

[Standard Disclaimer]
From: milind@agni.cc.nd.edu (Milind Saraph)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Bharat's (India's) Ballistic Missile Program !
Date: 30 Aug 92 02:35:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Aug30.023558.29448
Reply-To: milind@agni.cc.nd.edu (Milind Saraph)
Organization: Univ. of Notre Dame

In article <29AUG199211252623@iago.caltech.edu>, mughal@iago.caltech.edu
(ASIM M MUGHAL) writes:

|>     This is not an exhaustive list, one wonders;
|>
|>     1. Why our friendly neighbor is so keen on stock piling long range
|>        missiles when it already has superiority of 4-7 times in military?

May be because India has one more friendly neighbor -- China.


|>Asim Mughal
|>
|>[Standard Disclaimer]
                                                       
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:14078 soc.rights.human:3157
From: aim@ocf.berkeley.edu (Ali Mirza)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Ride needed from Berkeley/SF to LA & back: Labor Day Weekend
Date: 3 Sep 1992 23:20:18 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: earthquake.berkeley.edu

Hi everyone,

I'ld like to leave the Bay Area on Friday and come back on Monday or Tuesday. If anyone's
going either way, I'ld like to come along. I'll more than happy to share gas and
driving.

If interested, give me a call at 510/548-8320 before noon tomorrow or e-mail me
before midnight tonight.

Thanks.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:14393 soc.rights.human:3252
From: gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.rights.human
Subject: Re: The Real Problem (Was Is Islam equal to Intolearnce )
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:40:12 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University

In article <la4n11INNih6@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu> hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:
>Dear Sir, by relegating Islam to the personal sphere
>(every one minds one's own business) you make defunct
>more than half of Islamic injunctions in the Quran.
>Note that in USA the government "does" mind what
>people do or do not. Like enforcing penalties for
>stealing, murdering and other crimes.
>

Wrong Analogy Sir. USA govt. (or even Indian govt.) does 
not mind what you do as long as what you do affects only 
you (sucide is an exception though). Stealing, murder and 
other crimes are not activities that are relegated to one's 
personal self. They affect the community and hence it is 
right for the community to bother about what affects them. 

regards,
--   
   ______ ______ ______ ______ __  |\/\/\/|
    ____/  __  /  __  /  __  /  /  |  \  /|   LIFE'S COMPLEX - IT HAS 
   / __   /   /  /   /  /   /  /   | (o)(o)   REAL & IMAGINARY PARTS  
  /   /  /   /   ___/  __  /  /    C      _) 
_____/ _____/ __/   __/ __/ ______/ | \___|  
E-mail - gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu       |   /   All Std. Disclaimers apply.
From: khalid@bu-bio.bu.edu (Rasheed A. Khalid)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC BROTERHOOD - BOSNIA V/S SOMALIA
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:02:56 GMT
Organization: Biology Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

Nice points by B. Kumar on the subject.

I heard on CNN that Pakistan was going to send 500 troops to
Somalia.  I don't know whether they went there or not. Does
anyone know about this for sure?

Secondly, I absolutely agree with the above writer that Muslims
should not look towards the West for help.  Even if the West
responds, it will do so if there are other benefits available for
it.  The west has never been, and will never be a friend in the
near future as a whole.  This Dajjal has to be eliminated with
prayer and unity among the ranks of the believers.

If the Muslim states unite today and cast their votes together
after mutual consultation, favoring the S.C. permanent member(s)
who are in favor of the Muslim opinion, the edifice of the Council
and the U.N. can be shaken at least a bit.  One or more members,
China and Russia for instance, can be made friends even by giving them
financial help  when they need it.  Our one country alone,
Saudi Arabia, can be rich enough to be heard loudly worldwide, but
it chooses the path of the old style Bedoine, who always chose to
follow, rather than to lead.

Take Salman Rushdie himself for instance, I remember seeing full-page
posters in the New York Times and other dailies, in which the western
leaders and writers' associations proclaimed: We are free to write,
we will write,....etc.
Saudies alone could buy the whole paper for a while to answer the
allegations raised by this Satanic writer against Islam and its Holy
personages.  But I do not remember seeing a hair of the Saudi's head
stand with anger, scorn, or even slight concern.  The response was
from the late Ayatolla Khomeini, forceful and memorable, though I do
not agree with that approach either.

Now, who would ask the West, self-proclaimed lovers of freedom of
speech, press and democracy, to publish pamphlets like:

	THE PROTOCOL FOR THE ELDERS OF ZION

It was banned and taken of the shelves of libraries.
Where does their freedom go at this time?  They play double standards
in one case after another and show you a very different face from
what they really are.  The poor in their simplicity take them on their
word and even accept terms and conditions set by the west itself.
It needs a many Saddams and Bhutto's together.  One at a time, scattered
here and there won't do.  And Iraq alone is not enough.  There need to
be at least ten Iraqs with more rational leaders than the present ones.
From: jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Bosnia has seven weeks to live!
Keywords: Bosnia
Date: 30 Aug 92 00:53:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: newton.1992Aug30.005348.29863
Organization: Technical University of Nova Scotia, Halifax, N.S.

In article <mirza.715125628@terminus.sce.carleton.ca> mirza@sce.carleton.ca (Murad A. Mirza) writes:
>assalam alaikum
>

........(stuff deleted)

>the stories of horrifying crimes which i can only relate to the ones
>committed in 1947-51, the struggle for pakistan days, and to the 
>crimes of which there is mention in Quran (a hadith in Bukhari, as i
>remember says that once, during the early days of islam, when sahaba
>asked the Prophet(SAW) that if any believers (Jews, Christians, and others
>before islam) were tortured as much as they are being tortured? the 
>Prophet(SAW) replied, " Yes, and they were skinned alive and thrown in
>fire and cut in two pieces starting from the head, just because they
>said that Allah (God) is One."

We don't have to go too far to look for examples... how about MQM's
drilling holes in limbs, literally removing knee-caps, killing, raping, 
cutting off women's breasts.... throwing children into fire... obviously, 
while the victims were alive and conscious....

....... (stuff deleted)

>
>Murad [ anytime my number can be up too! as Allah wishes ] Mirza.

That Bosnian Muslims are humans is sufficient reason for anyone to help.
It's a shame that we don't want to miss even this chance of showing our 
bigotry.

Nadeem

-- 
Nadeem Jamali                                     jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca
						 
School of Computer Science			  
Technical University of Nova Scotia		  (902)420-7882
From: i000@iss700.Columbia.NCR.COM
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: August 14'..    (There is a nice book...)
Keywords: Pakistan India Missile Bosnia August
Date: 1 Sep 92 21:29:53 GMT
Organization: NCR Corp, E&M-Columbia, Columbia, SC
Originator: indu@iss700

Article: 21966 of soc.culture.pakistan
From: mirza@vxcrna.cern.ch (MIRZA,I./EP)
Subject: Re: 14 August.....

>> WHEN DOES YOUR HISTORY START?....
>
>>  ...stuff deleted

>There is a very nice book written on this(I think in late 70's).
>"PAKISTAN MAN TEHZEEB KA IRTIQA"
>by
>Sibt-e-Hasan

>Mirza Ilyas

  HISTORY IS NOT Re-CREATED BY WRITING BOOKS :-)
  IT HAPPENS.  YOU ONLY LEARN AND TRY TO UNDO IT 
  if any HISTORICAL ERRORS TAKE PLACE ! :-)


-Indu.
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  The views expressed above are on my personal basis.                 |
|  No Group or  Organization   can be held responsible                 |
|                                ( for those in quest of truth .......)|
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: ag3l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Arun K. Gupta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: How the Europeans overtook...
Date: 28 Aug 92 13:31:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.MebdhCe00VpLE80V0=
Organization: Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


In China gunpowder was used for fireworks and entertainment,
not warfare.

And yes, the Arabs had cannon too. The point is that if my
cannon shoots 500 yards and yours 450 yards, you lose almost
all naval battles.

Anyway, the fact remains that there were Arab/Muslim trading
posts all over the African coast that in a very short time
were supplanted by European posts.
Coming to think of the ebb and flow of civilization: another
random thought:

England was last invaded in 1066. Since then, they essentially
have been in control of their internal affairs. There is a series
of political developments: the Magna Carta, the struggle against
the Roman Catholic Church, the struggle against the monarchy,  the
establishment of Parliament. The USA inherited the British experience,
and the Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution reflect
the previous several hundred years of movement towards democracy.

In today's world, this is the one stream of development that has
had the least external influence or disruption. Think about it !

-arun
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan