From: sandro@asylum.UUCP (Sandro Wallach)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Anger towards women (was Re: Ouch.)   (SPOILERS)
Date: 29 Aug 92 01:08:50 GMT


I feel like I have to reply to Doug Sojourner's post, and preemptively
to other people who feel the same way.  I have reflexes built up from
many years of socialization that keep me out of flame wars -- in this
case I'm suppressing them, because there are things I need to say.
I'm not going to spew rage or insults, but I'm also not going to avoid
talking about sensitive subjects in insensitive ways.  In other words,
stop reading if you can.

**** SPOILERS: Anger, Confusion, and Generally Bad Thoughts ****



doug@cdc.hp.com (Doug Sojourner) writes:

>Ouch too (& I'm not even in the group targeted).  Just now I don't
>feel like ever reading something from either of those two people
>again: even if there are good reasons for their pain, I don't think
>that justifies their saying something like that in this environment.
>It feels like abuse to me ...

PLEASE tell me how my post hurt you.  I thought a lot about posting it
-- because I don't think I wanted to hurt anybody here -- and I
couldn't see how anyone could be more hurt by what I said than than by
lots of other spoilers people post. 

Two examples of other dangerous stuff people post:

 * Last weekend there was a discussion on cutting.  It made me very
 sad, and somewhat angry at the abusers.  It also made me see how it
 could make me feel better to cut myself.  I think that's good, but if
 I decide to do it, I'll bet some people would say I was injured in
 part because of the postings.  That would be incorrect: the postings
 just told me of another route I can take to escape my pain.  It's no
 one's fault for giving me information they believe is true, and it's
 my decision how to use it.  Maybe this is beside the point; I'm just
 trying to see what line I seem to have crossed.

 * A month or two ago, about 5 people posted messages talking how they
 wanted to shove red hot pokers up the butts of abusers.  There was
 some discussion of how maybe they shouldn't talk like that, but
 finally everyone seemed to say it was okay.  I'm not sure it was
 okay, but if it was, why is it so "unjustifiable" for me to say
 something as comparitively mild as "I hate [people] like [my
 abusers]"?

The only thing that seems different to me is that I used the word
"women" when I said it.  Suddenly I was visibly taking sides in a war
between the sexes, a war where the women pretend to have all the moral
high ground.  It's an ancient war of power and intellect and emotions,
a war I first entered as an innocent and left as a casualty...

I can't tell some of what happened.  Here's one of the battles I can
talk about, though: As a boy, I was (among other things) being beaten
and tormented by my sister.  She was bigger than me, but the real
power she had over me what that if I ever fought back, I got punished
for _hurting_a_girl_.  So I endured, and did whatever she made me do.
(Finally, when I was about 12, she and I were much less supervised and
I was able to fight back and she stopped.)

Is it any wonder I get angry when girls or women hide behind the
shield or privilege of being female?  I know damn well plenty of women
(including my sister) have been abused, so don't lecture me that they
need special protection or anything: I needed special protection, too,
as a boy, but somehow I was just supposed to take it like a man.


Obviously, "Woman Hater's" post struck a chord in me.  I thought: this
guy (I assumed it was a guy) is jumping into a fire I know too well --
I can't just stand by....    I was kind of hoping some other people
might help, too, but oh well.   It's not a physical fight, but even if
it was, I think I'd rather die than give in any more.  (Probably just
romantic thinking -- I chose to survive so far.  No reason to give up
now.)


Anyway -- I know it's not really a war.  I know we're better off if we
all work together, as thinking, caring creatures of the universe.  War
and power struggles happen when people lose what they need, and do
whatever they can to get it back.  Sometimes it seems like I was raped
and abused by both sides in this stupid war, as a soldier and traitor
(for my father) and a prisoner and spy (for my mother).

I need to express anger at both sides.   It's not hard to find a
sympathic helpful ear if I want to rage against my father.  Father
hating, *man* hating is everywhere.  That's cool (to a point).  It's
much harder to talk about what my mother did.  Maybe I should read
some Bly or something, but I think he's probably to metaphoric.


Let's be clear about one more thing.  Fearsome, horrible misogyny,
which we see throughout our society, is (in fact) fearsome and
horrible, as is any action stemming from hatred, including gay bashing
and racial violence.  There are two ways to deal with it: try to force
people to act nice, or try to actually heal the wounds that drive
people madly towards creating more pain and destruction.  Guess which
tactic I prefer?


Anyway.  I know there are a lot of people who wont be able to
understand what I'm saying, and others who simply wont accept it.  I
hope if you're upset, you'll at least read this once more, imagining
you're hearing it from a crying, precocious seven-year old boy sitting
cross-legged on a hardwood floor.  Thanks.  If that didn't help, you
might as well just put my name in your kill file; you're not likely to
change my mind.

(On the other hand, if you understand and want to send me a note of
support, I could really use it.)

	-- sandro (sandro@ELF.com)



Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery