From: mjones@fenway.aix.kingston.ibm.com (Mike Jones)
Subject: Re: Your own words, of course != bigot
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 93 05:05:02 GMT
Distribution: usa, world
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research
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jpsb@NeoSoft.com (Jim Shirreffs) writes:
: 
: Do you get the feeling that I disapprove of homosexual sex?  
: Does that make me a bigot?

Depends. If you disapprove of homosexual sex because of prejudiced ignorant
reasons, then it does. Let's see....

: Does that make me a bigot?  I don't think so. It is my
: contention that anal intercouse is WRONG, men butt fucking other men is
: not a cute idiosyncrasy. It is a serious pervertion of the human body, 
: and the human soul, both in form and function.

OK, strike one. Perhaps you know better, but implying that heterosexual
sex <==> anal intercourse is certainly the type of debating tactic a bigot
would use. It's also clearly a matter of opinion that it's a perversion. People who enjoy doing it would probably argue that it's not perverted. Query: do
you think that anal intercourse between a man and a woman is wrong?

:                                                I cann't believe that 
: society is even debating this issue. If homosexual sex is simply abnormal
: when how come we don't see our dogs (male) and cats (male) giving one 
: another head? 

Strike two.
Actually, homosexuality has been observed in both dogs and cats. We don't
see them "giving one antoher head" because dogs don't engage in oral sex.

: If homosexual sex is not wrong then it should have the same moral
: standing as heterosexual sex, then what? Group sex, sex with animals
: sex with dead people, sex with children, etc. If you are going to break

Ah, the slippery slope argument. A favorite tactic of bigots. Is anyone
claiming that there is a sexual orientation toward group sex? Do you think
this argument is likely to arise? If not, then you are definitely behaving
as a bigot.

: sex with dead people, sex with children, etc. If you are going to break
: a 2000 year old precident, you better have a very good reason. And you
: had better be prepared to demostrate the correctness of your view.

Pardon? Where does this 2000 year number come from? Homosexuality has been
regarded as relatively normal in many times and places, including Greece in
the Hellenic age and Rome into the 5th century. I don't think that the
rather large sections of the world that are primarily Hindu and Buddhist
have any particular moral stricture against homosexuality today.

: Simply calling me a bigot does nothing for your argument. Ive been called
: alot worse. Prove to me that butt fucking is a legitimate expression of 
: love between two men.

I'm not sure just why you think you have the right to judge what the proper
standard for other people's sexual practices is - unless you're a bigot -
but I could certainly produce a few men who would say that it is. Do you
have the chutzpah to claim that your opinion of them is more important than
theirs? If not, we'll take this one as proven.

:                       Prove to me that society will not be harmed by the
: further erosion of our J/C moral

There are a large number of societies which function quite well without
Judeo-Christian morals; Japan, for instance. Enough proof for you? If not,
please explain why.

:                                  The issue here is not tolerance, 
: homosexual have acheived a great deal of tolerance towards thier life
: style.

Ah. You must mean like the four gays in Denver who have been "tolerated" to
death since Colorado passed Amendment 2. The police think the cases are
related. Or the way the military tolerates them. You know, that toleration
must explain why the sucide rate among gay teenagers is much higher than
among straight teenagers. They just can't stand the way their peers tolerate
them.

:        Not satisfied with the tolerance society has towards gays, they
: now want thier deviant acts legitismized. Well your are simply asking 
: to much of this old straight conservative. I will listen, but don't 
: expect me to roll over.

Strike three! I have probably never seen such a concise justification of
one's prejudices. You're a bigot.
  
: PS sorry to take so long answering, had to get my home system
: on the UUCP net.

Our loss.

   Mike Jones  |  AIX/ESA Development  |  mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com

The sheer number of minds to be coordinated affects the cost of the effort.
	- Frederick P. Brooks, Jr., The Mythical Man-Month
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc