HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: th2_oate@csd.uwe-bristol.ac.uk (Tom Oates)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: DeLisle Carbine - Information.
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:15:54 GMT
Organization: University of the West of England, Bristol

In article <3863.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> ben.sansing@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Ben Sansing) writes:

#Does anyone know where I could find detailed plans/specs/info regarding
#the DeLisle carbine? 

Since it was manufactured by the SOE a British Government department, the
plans may belong to the Government and be copyrighted. However I'm not
sure of the legal situation, so you may be able to manufacture under licence.

It's been done before. During the 1980s, a company called 'Law Enforcement
International' of the UK started remaking them. At that time the designer of 
the original weapon (William Godfray DeLisle) was still alive and he helped
the company make small improvements to the weapon. He's since died of old
age. I don't know if LEI are still in existence or their address. Perhaps if 
you consulted the relevant 'Janes' book - start with the '92 edition and then 
work back. I do remember reading a few reviews of the carbine in UK gun 
magazines. By all accounts it was the quietest yet most effective short range 
sniping weapon ever produced. The reason that American shooters are ignorant 
of the DeLisle is because it suffers from NIH (not invented here) syndrome 
and was Briddish (worse still!) and thereby totally interest-free.

#the surplus Enfields on the market, the basic gun (a converted MkIII,
#from what little we've been able to gather) can be built quite cheaply,
#with only the barrel

The original used a modified .45 ACP Thompson barrel - very common during
WW2. The LEI version of the DeLisle retailed for 570 pounds. That was 
circa 1985. Be aware that the stock of the DeLisle was collapsible ie.
you could break it in two for easier concealment. 

#bolt face, and magzine modifications to deal with.
#And, of course, the silencer. We figure there might be a limited market
#for these replicas 

Only among assassins and special forces. Apparently Mossad bought a few for
pest control. If you could make a prototype, demonstrate it to the US
special forces. They might well be interested in a few. I just hope you resist
the urge to give your replica an awful Americanised name like the 'Terminator'
or something equally tasteless. It was named the DeLisle, and that name
should stay. Alter the internal workings if you must, but try to keep the
outward looks of the DeLisle because it is rather an attractive weapon.

Good luck. I hope you make it. Let me know if you succeed.

-- 
****************************************************************************** 
* Tom Oates (Univ. of West of England) * DISCLAIMER:I speak only for myself. * 
* Email to: th2_oate@uk.ac.uwe.csd     * PGP 2.1 Key available upon request. *
******************************************************************************
From: loia@leland.Stanford.EDU (David Loia)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Trouble in MiraMesa
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:03:25 GMT
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA

In article <1993Jan19.170624.15773@btree.uucp> btree!andy@UCSD.EDU (Andy Bosik) writes:
#Hey Y'all!
#I have a dellemma at the house I live at.
#I rent a room a a friends house,and my friend
#likes keeping one of my guns,a Ruger GP100
#.357 revolver, in His room for self-protection.
#I kept my Colt .45 in my room. I don't mind
#allowing Him to use the .357,but it is very
#hard to get him to practice with any frequency. 

IMHO, it is not a good idea to loan firearms to
anyone unless you have strong trust in that
individual.

Remember that California is a very suit-happy
state. If someone were to be injured with your
firearm as result of your friend (mis)use I'd
hate to think what the lawyers would say.

If your friends is worried about's self protection
he can use some of the rent you pay him to buy 
his own firearm.

-------------------------------------------------------
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Guns used in assassinations
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:52:25 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <9301231457.AA24104@zippy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
}Here's a rather morbid question:  what were the makes and models
}of guns used in various assassinations and attempts?  ...

}Add others to the list if you like...

I've heard the Mosaad is partial to the Beretta 950 Minx (.22 short
autoloader -- easily concealed, easily silenced and, IMHO, not much good
for anything else).  Of course, they're generally closed mouthed about who
they've used them on ... (-:{

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                "If you can't stand solitude,
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483  perhaps others find you boring
Santa Monica, CA  90405                        as well."  -- Mark Twain
From: breslau@watson.ibm.com (Art Breslau)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: FFL Application Form Question?
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:51:01 GMT
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <1993Jan23.021157.15986@henson.cc.wwu.edu>, n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
|> WES@SSCVX1.ssc.gov (Wes Smith) writes:
|>
|> #I received an FFL application yesterday in the mail.  The BATF people seem
|> #real adamant about the FFL being issued for business purposes, rather than
|> #personal use (my intentions).  They insist that you have regular business
|> #hours and be open to the public.  Since I am not intending to buy and sell
|> #guns as a business would, and not keep regular hours for the public (I
|> #don't even wish to deal with the public), how do I answer on the form?  Is
|> #this some attempt by the Feds to limit the FFLs being issued?  It seems
|> #unreasonable to me that they would attempt to limit issuance to business
|> #organizations only.  Or did I miss a real obvious answer for the hobbyist?
|>
|> Two simple ways to comply:
|>
|> 1) 	Set short business hours: one hour a week, either after work or
|> during the weekend, when you are home.  My business is open from
|> 9-10 am on Saturday.
|>
|> 2)	Give hours as "by appointment only".   This is a legitmate way
|> to run a business, and I know of dealers who advertise their hours as
|> this.   How the BATF reacts to this in leu of a set "open doors" time I
|> cannot answer, because I chose #1 to minimise potential objections.
|>
|> JD
|>
|>
|>

The BATF can and WILL come to inspect your premises and books during THEIR
business hours. You better be damn sure you are in compiliance with all Federal,
State and Local regulations and be prepared to pay taxes as a legitimate business.
I run a supply house when I am not twiddling bits and bytes, and know from first
hand experience what an inspection entails.
From: holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock vs. Sig!?
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:16:02 GMT
Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA

gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes:
#In article <1993Jan25.200540.3372@email.tuwien.ac.at> holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe)) writes:
##-  In case of misfire, the Glock trigger can't be pulled again
##   without racking the slide.  Same situation as with SA pistols.
##   With the SIG I have the additional option of pulling the
##   trigger again.

#But one could alternatively say that with a Glock one doesn't even
#THINK about wasting time pulling the trigger repeatedly when it isn't
#going to help anyway..

Point well taken.  Especially with 15+ rounds per magazine doing the
tap-rack-bang immediately is certainly the more sensible way to handle
a misfire.  In that case a single maybe-ok cartridge is a small price
for a new one.  Especially for defense purposes, it's not optimal to
keep pulling.

-- 
| Holger Reusch                             |
| Technical University of Vienna, Austria <-+--- No kangaroos here,
| Dept. for Real-Time Systems               |    sorry!
| holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at                 |
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Quick reloading question (bullets)
Date: 23 Jan 93 15:59:38 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <1993Jan19.173334.23145@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> kkrh@troi.cc.rochester.edu (K. Karcich) writes:
#In <C139vJ.58z@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
#
##Another newbie reloading question....
#
##I got some 240gr. SWCBB cast lead bullets, and I have two questions about
##them. 
##First, what does SWCBB stand for? I figured out Semi-Wad-Cutter, but what's
##the BB for? I suppose it doesn't stand for Ballistic Ball :-)
##Second: they all have two grooves; the top groove's top edge is about 1mm
##(maybe less; it's just a guesstimate) deep, and the groove itself angles
##up from there to end up flush with the surface. The bottom groove is lower
##down and about twice as deep as the upper groove.
##		    __
##		   /  \
##		 _/    \_
##		|_	_|
##		 /	\   <-- top groove
##		|	 |
##		|_	_|
##		 _|    |_   <-- bottom groove
##		|	 |
##		 \______/
#
##		FIG 1. Crude-ASCII graphic of 240gr. SWCBB bullet
#
##(Sorry I don't know the technical terms for these things; "thingies" didn't
##seem quite appropriate :-)
#
##Anyhow, the second groove is filled with a wax-like purple substance. I 
##assume that this is left over from the casting process, but what I want
##to know is if I should clean it out, or should I just not worry about it
##(or should I definitely leave it alone)?
#
#Jim,
#
#	The top groove is for crimping the case and the bottom groove is a
#lube groove. Leave the lube in the groove. Also, from your picture, it appears
#that this bullet may be designed for a gas check. This is a little guilding
#metal cup which can be crimped on the bullet base, which protects the base and
#permits heavier loads and higher velocitys without leading. 
#


That's the bevel base.

Bill	burge@qdeck.com
From: keith@orioncmc.ca (Keith de Solla)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: [Pistol] Hi-Power question.
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:57:11 GMT
Organization: Canadian Microelectronics Corporation

In article <1993Jan26.180319.3115@news.eng.convex.com>, cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) writes:
|> In article <C1GvxJ.56C@boi.hp.com> wes@hpbs2500.boi.hp.com (Wes Nielson) writes:
|> #Shawn L Rinehart (srinehar@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
|> #
|> 
|> 	 I have a 1990 Browning Hi-Power 'Sport model' that might have a
|> 	problem.  My gun will not eject an empty magazine once the slide is
|> 	locked to the rear (as happens after it is empty). If the slide is
|> 	forward, it will usually pop it
|> 
|> #This is normal. The pressure from the magazine safety is enough to hold
|> #the mag in place. When the slide is forward the pressure of the magazine
|> #follower on the underside of the slide is apparently enough the "pop"
|> #out the magazine. The only fix I know of is to remove the magazine safety.
|> #Any other ideas??
|> 
|> No, it ain't normal! My Browning (and several others I've tried) eject the
|> empty magazine partway no matter where the slide is. It's true that
|> removing the magazine safety will reduce the friction on the magazine, and
|> thus might be a kludge--but you're really breaking something to fix
|> something else that's broke.
|> 
Yes, it is normal.  Part-way ejection is not what we want.  The interest
(for me) is to have it completely eject the magazine for fast reloading (IPSC).
My Hi-Powers will eject the mag completely if the slide is closed, but not
when its open.
From: gt2067c@prism.gatech.edu (J. Paul Patton)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 10mm S&W?  I can't decide.....
Date: 25 Jan 93 01:04:56 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


	I have recently become interested in the S&W Mod. 1006, 10mm auto.
However, I have not really heard much about 10mm weapons, and moreover I
haven't heard more than a whisper about the S&W-1006.  I would appreciate any
information about the two topics, whether personal experience, from a gun
magazine or digest, or from a friend or acquaintance.  It is pretty hard to 
make up one's mind about buying a $600 firearm without any prior experience
with it, so all info is helpful.  Thanks in advance for the info!

-P

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
J. Paul Patton                      <>    Be an optimist - at least until they
gt2067c@prism.gatech.edu            <>    start leading animals by twos to
Georgia Institute of Technology     <>    Cape Canaveral.
Atlanta Georgia, 30332              <>                      --source unknown
#<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
From: clarkj@a.cs.okstate.edu (CLARK JAMES ROLLYN)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE : good, bad and ugly
Date: 22 Jan 93 03:59:41 GMT
Organization: Oklahoma State University, Computer Science, Stillwater


My votes on guns

1.)  Best looking
   Rifle : Winchester Model 94, my grandfather has one and I love it, 
           or the Steyer-Mannlicher SSG PII sniper, double set trigger,
           and night scope.

   Pistol : Desert Eagle, any of them.

2.)  Worst looking
   Rifle : just about anything with a laminate stock
  
   Pistol : snub nose revolvers

   Shotgun : S.P.A.S 12 with the folding stock.

3.) Most Menacing
    
   Rifle : Barrett Light 50 Model 82 A1, or just anything in .50 BMG

   Pistol : Desert Eagle
   
   Shotgun : any of them

4.)  Whimpiest looking.
 
   Rifle : anything in .22lr
  
   Pistol : Derringers and anything in .25ACP, most worthless cartridge
            ever made.

   Shotguns : Break action single barrels


Well here they are, takem or leavem


----------------------------------------------------------------------
                          normal disclaimer applies
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: home protection concerns
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:16:26 GMT
Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA

morlan@afit.af.mil (Bruce W. Morlan) writes:
#I handle my home defense weapon with a slightly oily cloth when I
#preload it in the "readly alert" mode.  This cuts down on the oils and
#salts that the gun has to endure during storage - but probably removes
#fingerprints.  Is the net.opinion really strong on this issue?

Since you have a factual reason for wiping your gun  the  finger-
print   viewpoint   is  of  minor importance.  You did it because
you are a responsible gun owner interested in keeping his guns in
serviceable  condition.   BTW,  who is interested in fingerprints
when it is wholly clear from the start who used  the gun?

#Also - I use factory loads - partially jacketed hollow points (.357
#Mag), would I be better off if I used a more conventional round (is the
#hollow point a problem?

If the law doesn't prohibit HPs, I don't think  that  they  would
pose  a  problem.   HPs  are, for instance, less penetrative than
round-nosed bullets.

This is a means of protecting  bystanders,  neighbors,  etc.   (I
never  understood  why  certain  police  forces  use FMJ bullets.
IMHO, that's utter insanity for street usage.)

If you shoot in defense, you shoot to stop.  (SJ)HPs are the best
means  of  _stopping_  an  attack.  Riddling an assailer with 9mm
holes is not.

#I can take e-mail if the net thinks these are too specific for general
#comment.  Either way - thanks.

Why rob the fun from us?  We thrive on discussing such things
here. :-)

-- 
| Holger Reusch                             |
| Technical University of Vienna, Austria <-+--- No kangaroos here,
| Dept. for Real-Time Systems               |    sorry!
| holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at                 |
From: mjm3170@zeus.tamu.edu (MATTSON, MATTHEW JUL)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Is this corrosion?......
Date: 23 Jan 93 16:00:01 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services

I have a shooting buddy that recently asked me to post a question to the
group to see if anybody out there could help him.
He has noticed that his FEDERAL 9mm ammunition has a greenish, stick 
residue left on it after a few days on duty (police officer) and was wondering
if anyone knew what was causing it.

At first I thought it was corrosion, but he tells me that it wipes off with
a clean rag and does not pit the casing of the round.

Could this be a reaction with the chemicals in his leather holster, etc.?

MM
From: petekunz@iiic.ethz.ch (Peter John Kunz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: shooting under water?
Date: 26 Jan 93 13:05:19 GMT
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH

hia folks,

ok, i'm new to the thread, so maybe this has already been said:

i know someone who has done tests under water. after some experiemnting, he
managed to fire a .22 under water. he had greased the rounds. if more info is
requested, i will post.


cu
-pete



-- 
Peter J. Kunz	Vogesenstr. 60	4106 Therwil	Switzerland
petekunz@iiic.ethz.ch	pkunz@amiga.physik.unizh.ch
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Baking soda to clean steel barrels
Date: 24 Jan 93 03:32:39 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

What I've done is wrap a bit of paper towel neatly and 
tightly around a bore brush, coat it with cleaning slime 
(a runny grit suspension of baking soda in CLP), and it
takes leading out very quickly.  I got some of it onto the
rest of the guns, and the frames and slides are still gritty 
after a CLP bath and wipe.   

This stuff takes lead out so fast I wonder if it might wear
the blue off if I leave any grit on the the slide rails or
other metal-to metal parts.    There are some other hard
to reach areas that will have a little in them almost whatever
I do without a complete dis-assembly (such as the firing pin
cavity).

I'll clean it out as well as I can, of course.

Can any of you chemists assure me that baking soda is harmless
to blue steel and has no rust inducing powers?

Thanks
Jim D
From: chrisb@wang.com (Chris Bennet)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Suggestions for small hands
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:37:46 GMT
Organization: Wang Labs, Lowell MA, USA

hancock@iex.iex.com (David Hancock) writes:

#In article <c61802wv32X.01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> mws20@ccc.amdahl.com (Mark Sechrest) writes:
##
##I am in the market for a 9mm handgun, and I would like to hear some
##suggestions about what guns fit well in smaller hands. A friend has a
#[snipped for brevity]

#I suspect this will be echoed several times (if *this* isn't already an
#echo ;-).  Consider a Browning High Power.  I have fairly small mitts,
#and it fits my hand better than any other high-cap 9mms.  Were I in the
#market, the HP would be in the race.  Having shot a SIG P226 at the range
#a couple months ago, I would have to consider it, too, in *spite* of a
#larger grip.  It might be worth learning to compensate for it. 

ECHO, Echo, echo,... :)

 The BHP _is_ very good in the grip.  The trigger can be a little
far to reach.  My finger touches the _side_ instead of the front
of the trigger.  The gunsmith is in the process of chopping the
trigger off mine and welding it on so I can reach it easier - and
take advantage of the trigger job.  Even the SIG 226 is too large for 
those of us with really small paws.  
  The Colt 1911 with the short [not the "target length/long"] trigger
is even smaller but does sacrifice the large capacity of say the
"new" wonder nines like the BHP [aka P35 as in 1935].
 Chris
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ammo
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:56:44 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <1993Jan26.151052.258@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov> leem@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Lee Mellinger) writes:
-I have heard a semi-official, probably true rumor that Winchester has
-yielded to law enforcement entreaties and is going to change the name
-of the Black Talon ammo to something a defense attorney can't use for
-his or his clients personal gain.

Aw, that's sad..
Maybe, though, they'll pick a name like "Baby Boomer" instead?
	[MODERATOR:  *groan* ]
From: se08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Adam Eliot)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: ram-line magazine: impressions
Date: 28 Jan 93 16:09:18 GMT

I recall a while back that some people complained about aftermarket mags
(ramline included) not being up to snuff.  Well, I saw a ram-line mag
for the SIG P226 with a capacity of 18 for $15 and thought that it would
be a neat thing to have for my SIG P228 (it fits, just sticks out a
little).

When I took it out of the package, it had a definite film of grease (or
something on it) which I proceeded to wipe off with some Hoppes.  I
loaded up a full mag and cycled the stuff through my SIG, no problem.

I then noticed that the base plate was not securely attached.  It should
slide onto two rails on the magazine itself, but was only on one of them.

I then got curious and popped the baseplate off.  The entire inside was
covered with a THICK layer of grease, with obvious excesses built up at
the feeder (is this the right name?  the part that moves up and down.). 
This may be a great way to insure smooth operation, but I don't want
that crap on my ammo.  I wiped down the insides with Hoppes.

The spring by the way is pretty neat.  It appears to be a coil spring
attached to the feeder that unwinds as the feeder is depressed down.

Attaching the baseplate was difficult.  Difficult to do correctly that
is, I could see why only one rail was attached.

I took it to the range today and experienced flawless function.

Overall, once I corrected the defects (inexcusable I admit) it seems to
be a good piece of work.  I especially like the finish which is some
sort of smooth laquer -- should ease magazine insertion and ejection.

By the way, would there be any problem with using a magazine that sticks
out like this one, other than a slightly changed grip?  It doesn't stick
out much, seems OK.

-Seth

__________________________________________________________________________
"Why am I dangerous?...
                    ...because I'm right!"     -Rush Limbaugh

Seth Eliot                    Dept of Material Science and Engineering
                              Carnegie Mellon Univerity,   Pittsburgh, PA
ARPA    :eliot+@cmu.edu       |------------------------------------------
   or    se08+@andrew.cmu.edu |
Bitnet:  se08%andrew@cmccvb   |      
------------------------------|
From: holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why ?
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:16:22 GMT
Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA

mtxinu!sybase.sybase.com!thorick@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Thorick Chow) writes:
#I have a question that maybe someone can answer...

#Why is it that many pistol target shooters put their non-shooting
#hand in their pockets ?

#I have often puzzled over this...  While informal Bullseye is
#a hobby kind of thing for me, I still have an undercurrent of
#'self-defense' in my practice.. so naturally I wouldn't
#be caught dead (so to speak) with one hand in my pocket.

#('tradition' is an acceptable reason BTW  :-)   )

I have a better one:  Because it looks so d*mn cool and relaxed.  :-)

Earnestly, it relaces the muscles in the  non-shooting  arm  and,
thereby, reduces the tension of the whole body.  Keeps the shoot-
ing hand more stable.

With defense guns (distinguished by big caliber and/or high capa-
city)  single-handed  shooting  might  make  less  sense, because
weight or recoil become a problem.

One time I corked off a cylinderful of .357s  in  the  DC  stance
(that's my informal name for it :-) and quickly found out that it
was not the right thing to do...

With my friend's .22 pistol, it's an entirely different matter.

-- 
| Holger Reusch                             |
| Technical University of Vienna, Austria <-+--- No kangaroos here,
| Dept. for Real-Time Systems               |    sorry!
| holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at                 |