HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mduerst@ifi.unizh.ch (Martin J. Duerst)
Subject: Re: Japanese programming languages?
Organization: University of Zurich, Department of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 20:27:10 GMT


In article <42292@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson) writes:
> I don't think natural langauage grammar and programming language
> grammar are remotely related - even to English - except for keyword
> names and the like.  The arrangement of a program is more related
> to convenience, utility, etc, than whether or not the culture uses
> SVO or SOV, etc.
> 
I thought so too until I really learned to speak (and think) in Japanese.
Although it isn't really something conceptually difficult, it is a hard
step to change the order of thinking when forming a sentence. If it is
convenient then to have tokens in a programming language arranged more
or less in the same sequence as we think them, that might as well be
true for the Japanese.

> That's because it is often simpler for the compiler to do it this
> way. 
The compiler shouldn't be a big argument with the current memory and
everything. The parser is the only thing that is affected, and if you
like, you can start parsing a file backwards :-).

> It's also simpler to read the program (what if you had to
> skip forward a page just to know the name of the function you
> were looking at?)
That a traditional programm is easier to read for you that are used to
English is not by chance. But then you could argue that Japanese would be
easier to read if the verb would appear earlier in the sentence.
This argument may even seem obvious, but Japanese would (probably) say
that the verb is not of much usage if you do not know what it applies to.

> Usually, the "verb" is first, which is definately
> non English.
Yes, it is! Programming is giving orders to your computer, and
imperative statements are just VO in English and OV in Japanese.

----
Dr.sc.  Martin J. Du"rst			    ' , . p y f g c R l / =
Institut fu"r Informatik			     a o e U i D h T n S -
der Universita"t Zu"rich			      ; q j k x b m w v z
Winterthurerstrasse  190			     (the Dvorak keyboard)
CH-8057   Zu"rich-Irchel   Tel: +41 1 257 43 16
 S w i t z e r l a n d	   Fax: +41 1 363 00 35   Email: mduerst@ifi.unizh.ch

----
From: Jay.Majer@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: Song
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
Date: 18 Dec 92  12:18:00

To: hiraga@Csli.Stanford.EDU

U> This is definitely not ordinary Japanese.
U> I suspect something like AINU (or the Okinawa dialect?),
U> but frankly, I have no idea.

U> > Help from anyone is appreciated.

U> Would this kind of negative information help?

Yes. Thanks for letting me know.

 * Q-Blue v0.7
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: Jon Wiederspan <jonwd@uwtc.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: ASLEdit+
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A7548FF4F001CA3F@harajuku.tjp.washington.edu>
X-Xxdate: Wed, 16 Dec 92 15:49:08 GMT
Organization: Technical Japanese Program
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:51:08 GMT

>In article <1992Dec14.202517.23569@adobe.com> Ken Lunde, lunde@adobe.com
writes:
>>In article <1992Dec14.153244.19329@news.columbia.edu
>> Tyson Citerman, citerman@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu writes:
>>I was using ftp.uwtc.washington.edu to try and download
ASLEdit-1.0a30.hqx...
>>The sit was posted about a week ago...But once I was able to get the
remote 
>>file, I was denied access to actually put it on disk.  Is there some
sort of
>>user-only access system at this site that I should know about?  Please
oblige.

There is no special access.  I think the problem is with your local disk
as I had no
trouble downloading the file (which is not to say that I haven't made
several mistakes
in the past about permissions...).
>
>	Do you know of the new version? It is 1.0a35, and you can get it
>at FTP site ftp.tohoku.ac.jp (130.34.8.9) in the pub/mac/tools/editor
>directory as the file asledit-10a35.hqx.
>
>-- Ken R. Lunde
Thanks for the update Ken.  I've grabbed the new version and it is now on
ftp.uwtc.washington.edu in /pub/Japanese/Macintosh.

Jon Wiederspan
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: lunde@adobe.com (Ken Lunde)
Subject: Re: Japanese Outline font
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:24:12 GMT

Hey!

In article <3917@creatures.cs.vt.edu> Screen@yggdras.cs.vt.edu writes:

>> Does anybody know if there is any japanese "outline font" which includes
>> kanji?

	We (Adobe Systems) market 9 fonts which would meet your needs. They
all include full set of kanji as specified in JIS X 0208-1983 (6,353 kanji).
Here is a listing of the fonts:

Ryumin-Light (light mincho)
GothicBBB-Medium (medium gothic)
FutoMinA101-Bold (bold mincho)
FutoGoB101-Bold (bold gothic)
Jun101-Light (light rounded gothic)
MidashiGo-MB31 (display gothic)
MidashiMin-MA31 (display mincho)
ShinseiKai-CBSK1 (medium script)

The above are typefaces licensed from Morisawa, and are copy protected.

HeiseiMin-W3 (light mincho)

The above typeface is from the Font Development & Promotion Center (FDPC),
and is not copy protected.
	Now, how do you get them:

LaserWriterII NTX-J (printer hard disk contains Ryumin-Light & GothicBBB-
  Medium) = about $6000 for printer and fonts
ATM-J (Japanese version of Adobe Type Manager for Macintosh -- comes with
  Ryumin-Light & GothicBBB-Medium) = about $300
PlusPack-J (Additional ATM-J fonts -- comes with FutoGoB101-Bold, Jun101-Light,
  and FutoMinA101-Bold) = about $550
Downloadable Font packages (these download to a PostScript Japanese printer
  hard disk, *and* install on CPU hard disk for ATM-J -- choice of all
  fonts except for Ryumin-Light, GothicBBB-Medium, and HeiseiMin-W3) =
  about $750 for low-res (600dpi and below) and about $3500 for high-res
  (601dpi and up)
Adobe Illustrator 3.2J (Japanese version of graphics application for
  Macintosh -- comes with HeiseiMin-W3, which installs on Macintosh CPU
  for use with ATM-J *and* is downloadable to PostScript Japanese
  printer -- no resolution restriction) = about $1000

Note that ATM-J and PlusPack-J fonts only install to the Mac CPU, and
will not download to a printer hard disk.
	I believe that Qualitas Trading in Berkeley, CA (510-848-8080)
sells all the above products (the prices should be close to actual).
You can also call SystemSoft America at 800-882-8856. Both places should
have literature available.

-- Ken R. Lunde
   Japanese Font Production
   Adobe Systems Incorporated
   lunde@mv.us.adobe.com
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: greadore@jscprofs.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: Need Wordtank reccommendation/advice
Organization: nasa/jsc
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:32:16 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.200426.29554@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
thompson@spot.Colorado.EDU (THOMPSON  BENJAMIN RHINELANDER) writes:
>	I am thinking of ordering a Wordtank and could use some advice.
>For one thing, what's the difference between the models (7100/7200/8500)?
>
>
>	Ben T.
>
>-- 
>Do not be lulled by my present condition,
>Psmith. There are only 35 of you.
>
I have had my word tank for about 1 month now and really like it. All the
models have about the same number of entries in the Japanese/Japanese-English
dictionary and the Kanji dictionary. With the 7100 the English-Japanese
dictionary has 30,908 entries, the 7200 has 51,040 entries and the 8500 has
71,491 entries. The 7100 and the 7200 have a 64 kilobit word memo where you can
store japanese and english words for recall practice. The 8500 has a 256
kilobit word memory. All can accept input in romaji, katakana and hiragana;
have a calculator; calendar thru 2099; and an LCD screen. The 7100 has a 10
minute auto power-off timer, the 7200 and 8500 have a 7 minute auto power-off
timer. The 8500 also has an address & telephone book. There are also various
expamsion cards you can buy that will increase the dictionary capacities. These
sell for approx $100 and up.I know GITCO in California is selling the
wordtanks, but I think they are a little expensive. If you know someone who is
going to Japan ask them to buy one for you; it will be alot less. I got my 7200
in Tokyo in Akihabara for $159. This is a lot less than the $289 GITCO was
charging the last time I got info from them. If you have a fax number I can fax
you the info sheet that I got from GITCO that describes the three models of the
wordtank. It is not a perfect piece of equipment, but what is. I think it is
very helpful in looking up kanji. I have a kanji dictionary, but hardly use it
now that I have the wordtank. The Japanese-English and English-Japanese
dictionaries are pretty good, but sometimes don't have the words you are
looking for. You still should have a good Japanese-English and English-Japanese
bound dictionary also. OVerall I think the word tank is a very good product,
but can use some improvements.

Gerald Readore
NASA/JSC

Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: Pam Ohno Dagoberg <pamod@cfsmo.honeywell.com>
Subject: Need translation for Taiko piece
To: sci.lang.japan
Posted-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 9: 55:29 CST
Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25]
Phone: 785-4359 (vm - 8549)
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Mail-Station: MN51-1335
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:55:29 GMT
Received-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 09: 56:02 CST

The taiko group I am in is working on a new piece that is different than
the other pieces that our group performs ... the new piece is a little more
artsy.  Not so artsy that I would call it avant garde ... just different for
our group.

We would like to have a Japanese name for this piece that translates to
"something new" or "different."  The Japanese name should convey a sense of
something good since this piece is allowing our Taiko group to experiment
with a broader sense of taiko as a performing art.

Any suggestions??

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pam Ohno Dagoberg - pamod@cfsmo.honeywell.com
612-785-4359
Honeywell, Inc. CFS/MO
Minneapolis, MN
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: thompson@spot.Colorado.EDU (THOMPSON  BENJAMIN RHINELANDER)
Subject: Need Wordtank reccommendation/advice
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:04:26 GMT

	I am thinking of ordering a Wordtank and could use some advice.
For one thing, what's the difference between the models (7100/7200/8500)?


	Ben T.

-- 
Do not be lulled by my present condition,
Psmith. There are only 35 of you.
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: mako@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu ("Makoto Shimojima, Univ of Tsukuba/CDF")
Subject: Re: Japanese Song (Not)
Reply-To: mako@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:17:32 GMT

> MY>   > Could someone please help me translate the following Japanese song?
> MY>   >
> MY>   >      doungan kasakuyan
> MY>   >      indou mu'u
> MY>   >      rusato uila-doa
> MY>   >      hanba hanbauyan
> MY>   >      randaban unradan
> MY>   >      tounjiyunkanra-
> MY>   >      kasakuya-nu
>
> MY>        Is this really Japanease song?
> MY>        I native Japanease can't understand even a sigle sentense.
>
>                            I thought it was Japanese because it was in a
> Japanese movie.

It does not look like Japanese, nor are the words spelt like it, but it
resembles to those I used to sing a long time ago --- they were "Okinawa
minyo"es (folk songs of Okinawa, where my first piano teacher, who taught
me these wonderful songs, is from)... I liked them, but I never understood
a word.

The song above is definitely not a standard Japanese song, but it could
be one of minyoes of somewhere in Japan. In which movie did you hear this
song? Did you alphabetise it yourself or did you see it like that in the
movie?
						mako
From: tariqh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Tariq Hamid)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: ASLEdit+
Date: 16 Dec 92 18:51:42 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London


ASLEdit+ is a tiny computer programming environment., and NOT a japanese
wordprocessor. It does provide a basic editor with which you can compose files
containing japanese characters.

Therefore as a wordprocessor it is a toy. Why didn't anyone explain this
earlier?

Yours

tariq
--

Tariq Hamid	                 	Internet:  tariqh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk
 Department of Computer Science  	JANET:     tariqh@uk.ac.qmw.dcs
  Queen Mary & Westfield College  
   Mile End Road                   	  Telephone:  +44 71-975 5245
    LONDON, E1 4NS, UK             	  Fax:        +44 81-980 6533
From: Jay.Majer@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Japanese Song (Not)
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
Date: 17 Dec 92  12:17:00

To: yoneda@sys.semicon.sony.co.jp

MY>   > Could someone please help me translate the following Japanese song?
MY>   >
MY>   >      doungan kasakuyan
MY>   >      indou mu'u
MY>   >      rusato uila-doa
MY>   >      hanba hanbauyan
MY>   >      randaban unradan
MY>   >      tounjiyunkanra-
MY>   >      kasakuya-nu

MY>        Is this really Japanease song?
MY>        I native Japanease can't understand even a sigle sentense.

Oh really? I'm sorry then. I thought it was Japanese because it was in a
Japanese movie. I guess it's not. Thank you for letting me know.

 * Q-Blue v0.7
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: k4lee@student.business.uwo.ca (Kesson Lee)
Subject: Japanese School in Japan
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:34:28 GMT

I'm very interested in learing Japanese and hope to take a summer session 
on Japanese during Summer 1993.  If any body have some information on the 
university/language school in Japan, please send them to me directly.  
Thanks a lot!

k4lee@student.business.uwo.ca (Kesson Lee)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
From: jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: Japanese Song (Not)y
Date: 19 Dec 92 16:03:14 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <BzH4H9.49t@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, mako@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu ("Makoto Shimojima, Univ of Tsukuba/CDF") writes:
>> MY>   > Could someone please help me translate the following Japanese song?
>> MY>   >
>> MY>   >      doungan kasakuyan
>> MY>   >      indou mu'u
>> MY>   >      rusato uila-doa
>> MY>   >      hanba hanbauyan
                ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^
>> MY>   >      randaban unradan
                ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^
>> MY>   >      tounjiyunkanra-
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> MY>   >      kasakuya-nu
>>

Doesn't this part in particular sound like Buddist sutra?
Sounds 'Anya-hara...' 'ish to me. :)

>> MY>        Is this really Japanease song?
>> MY>        I native Japanease can't understand even a sigle sentense.
>>
>>                            I thought it was Japanese because it was in a
>> Japanese movie.
> 
> It does not look like Japanese, nor are the words spelt like it, but it
> resembles to those I used to sing a long time ago --- they were "Okinawa
> minyo"es (folk songs of Okinawa, where my first piano teacher, who taught
> me these wonderful songs, is from)... I liked them, but I never understood
> a word.
> 
> The song above is definitely not a standard Japanese song, but it could
> be one of minyoes of somewhere in Japan. In which movie did you hear this
> song? Did you alphabetise it yourself or did you see it like that in the
> movie?
> 						mako
-- 
jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
James Miller

_chicchai .sig no ho ga ichiban iin janai ka..._
             Enlightenment Happens?
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: matthews_ti@laidbk.enet.dec.com (Tim Matthews)
Subject: RE: Japanese Language Programming
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 01:18:28 GMT


Check out "Soft Landing in Japan: A Market Entry Handbook for U.S. Software
Companies."  It does not specifically address Japanese programming languages,
but it contains a tremendous amount of references and contacts.  It is also a
good overview of the Japanese software market.  It is available for $95 from
the American Electronics Association.  In Japan: 03-3237-7195; in the U.S.
408-987-4200.

Tim
From: Jay.Majer@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Song
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
Date: 15 Dec 92  12:15:00

 Could someone please help me translate the following Japanese song?

      doungan kasakuyan
      indou mu'u
      rusato uila-doa
      hanba hanbauyan
      randaban unradan
      tounjiyunkanra-
      kasakuya-nu


 Help from anyone is appreciated.

 * Q-Blue v0.7
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: ryoichi@athena.mit.edu (Ryoichi Hashimoto)
Subject: Chrismas presents for you.
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 06:08:20 GMT

Merry Christmas!
 As some of you have provided examples of funny mistakes in Japanese,
and I really enjoyed it, here's my OKAESHI (counter-gift :-). The
followings are my mistakes in English conversations. Enjoy them!

1) Like most of Japanese, I feel very unhappy when I say "no," even when 
I know that "No"  is the politest answer in some context.  One day my
friend in my office asked me,
  Friend: "Ryoichi, would you mind if I read your new magazine first?"
  Me:     "_Yes_, of course, ... oopes! Well, well... I mean it's OK!"
I sometimes feel difficult even to say "No thank you."  

2) I sometimes confuse "sensitive" and "sensible," but this confusion
is not so funny as the following.  When I was talking about calendar
system in Japan, I said,
  "We used the _lunatic_ calendar util the beginning of Meiji era."

3) I do not think I am as bad in English as to confuse "S" and "Th"
like some of Japanese employees in IBM corporation :-D  My difficulty
lies between "L" and "R."  When I am nervous, I cannot pronounce
correctly.  When I met a famous professor in a symposium,
  Me: "Nice to meet you, Prof. XX.  I am always interested in your 
       work.  But, you always write very _wrong_ papers..., sorry, I 
       mean very volumous, and bulky...." 
Similar mistake happened when I was talking about the crown prince...,
OOPS!  I had better keep silence ;-D

Have a happy new year!  RAINEN MO DOUZO YOROSHIKU!
-- ryiochi
From: trent@cs.utexas.edu (Scott Ross Trent)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: Slips and Puns in Japanese
Date: 11 Dec 1992 12:59:30 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
Distribution: sci
NNTP-Posting-Host: tokio.cs.utexas.edu

In article <2515@usna.NAVY.MIL> wdw@math3.sma.usna.navy.MIL (Wm. Douglas Withers -- math  FACULTY <wdw@sma.usna.navy.mil>) writes:
>OK, this happened to an acquaintance rather than to me:
>
[ amusing anecdote about confusing jikan with chikan ]

That reminds me of the experience that happened to the sister of a friend of
mine.  (It seems like all of the interesting things happen to other people. :-)

To put it simply, she was riding one of Tokyo's crowded subways, and she was
the victim of a "chikan".  She could tell who did it, and was justifiably
quite upset.  She faced the man, and yelled at him, "Anata wa... MIKAN desu!"
I'm told that he got quite embarrassed at this.

(mikan=small orange fruit)

-- 
scott                             /* We're the United States Government, we   */
trent@cs.utexas.edu               /* don't do that kind of thing! -- Sneakers */
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari)
Subject: JWP: three things that would make my life easier
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:11:09 GMT

	If anyone hasn;t gotten JWP yet, I recommend that you
	run, not walk, to your nearest FTP site and get it.  It's 
	a blessing and a wonder to those of us who could not affoed
	anything more than Moke (and god forbid someone should be 
	suckered into Smart Characters).  The author deserves more
	thanks than I could post, soo.. 

	Three things that I want for Christmas 

	1.  Please add anti-aliasing.  Currently, I use the 48x48
	 font in a fairly small print size to get quality that is 
	 truly beautiful, but it would be nice if the fonts could be 
	 scaled a bit without looking bad (not that anti-aliasing
	 is the answer to the worlds problems, but it's better than 
	 nothing and a lot cheaper than scalables)

	2.  Automated KG entry.  What I mean by this is, it would
	  be nice if I could open up the dictionary and search, insert
	  all of the entries I'm interested in in KG format, without
	  having to go into and out of the dictionary constantly, and
	  without having to type the "other half" (english or japanese)
	  of the entry myself.  Plus, converting the space, []'s and
	  such to their english equivalents (easy to do with 
	  search and replace, tho).  This would make life so much 
	  easier than doing it mostly by hand.  
 
	3.   Support for more than one font size in the document,
	  and more than one Windows TT font for the english.
 
	One thing to think about, perhaps the Japanese fonts could be
	converted over to a series of Windows fonts (i.e. map 200
	characters from the Japanese font onto as many Windows
	fonts as it takes--for each of the 3 bitmaps..).  This might
	be desirable, because I believe that Windows is smart enough
	to do a sort of anti-aliasing when scaling--but I do not know.
	It would, however, allow much easier cutting and pasting
	between applications, assuming they carry the font information
	with them when cutting and pasting.  <If not, you'd get
	garbage>.  This might also help with #3, since you might then
	be able to turn a lot more of the font handling over to 
	Windows.
 
	Just some thoughts.  I have no idea about how practical/useful
	the above paragraph is.


	Question:  Does anyone know if the Ashiya24 font included
	with Moke 2.1 is public domain? 

BTW--thanks to Ken Lunde for the information from Adobe you sent me.
  Please let us all know if/when ATM-J for Windows becomes available
	(is the mac version still using that horrible copy protection?)
 
	 
-- 
	"If you can't eat sand, why the hell are you living in a desert?"

	     Rule 1:  "Don't have more children than you can feed."
	  	  Nuclear redevelopment for a better world!
From: johan@cav2.crc.canon.co.jp
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: Slips and Puns in Japanese
Date: 14 Dec 92 00:28:08 GMT
Organization: Canon Research Center, Canon Inc., Kanagawa, JAPAN
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: cav2

Colleague asking me in front of my waapuro:
-Nani wo shite iru no ?
-Soba ni tegami wo kaite irun desu ga...
- (Laugh)

[I mixed up the basic words soba (noodles) and sobo (grandma)]

- johan
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan