HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mcdowell@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Mike McDowell)
Subject: Re: Woodstocks Pizza
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 23:40:48 GMT

franks@synoptics.com (Frank Stutzman) writes:

>In article 722203236@zmcipdec1, zrsuk01@zmcipdec1.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (U. Koch) writes:
>>Nearly the same with me. That's one of the things I miss. But I miss
>>Nearly Normal's a lot more...

>Its gone?!?!  I remember when they were in their old place.  
>Decidedly funky.  Their new place was just as funky but in a 
>hippi-yuppie kinda way.  

It's still there!  I think it was the poster who had left.  Clod's is
still there too.  You'd prefer McMenamin's, though.

>|Frank Stutzman                    | "Practice makes perfect,
>|SynOptics Communcations, Inc.     |  perfect is a fault,
>|Santa Clara, Ca                   |  and fault lines change"
>|franks@synoptics.com              |             - REM


Mike McDowell
mcdowell@atlantis.cs.orst.edu

Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: walter@nova.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de (Walter Obermiller)
Subject: Re: Me be a oregoner
Organization: TAT (Theoretical Astrophysics Tuebingen), U. of Tuebingen, FRG
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 07:09:40 GMT

merlyn@ora.com (Randal L. Schwartz) writes:

>In article <1992Nov18.173019.2862@cs.sfu.ca> shell@cs.sfu.ca (Barry Shell) writes:
>   I always felt the best example of Oregonian culture was a poster ad
>   program I once saw in Portland. The poster showed a fellow in a big
>   overcoat, from the back, standing in front of a statue, with the coat
>   open. The caption underneath read, "Expose Yourself To Art".

>My poster says "to Randal, the best video guy I know...  Whoop Whoop!"

Do you know whether that poster is still sold yet? I was negligent
enough not to get a copy when I could. Interestingly, I have seen
this poster as far away from OR as Paris (not Tx, but France). People
there however didn't know about the 'mayor implications'.

walter

walter@mira.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de
former 'part-time' oregonian on loan to UO
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: gclapp@javelin.sim.es.com (Glenn Clapp)
Subject: Re: Yet another 'goner...
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Corp.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:05:56 GMT

In article <1econnINNo2i@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> pauls@css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth) writes:
>In article <CORYWEST.92Nov17161459@rio-grande.is.rice.edu> corywest@is.rice.edu (Cory West) writes:
>>	Well, I can't believe my eyes :-).  I'm from Talent
>>(near Medford and Ashland).  Anyone else from this area?
>
>Yep, from Arshland.  (And how could any self-respecting person from the
>Rogue Valley describe their origins in relation to *Medford* ?!)
>

What?  Someone ELSE from Talent?  I'm getting all misty!

BTW Paul, Ashland isn't Oregon anymore, it's Southern California.  The
"Oregon" state of mind is gone from that place.  (Well, there are pockets,
where there are Oregonians that haven't been displaced by the tide of
Ca'ans yet.)


-- 
=============================================================================
= Glenn Clapp                          |  gclapp@thunder.sim.es.com         =
= Evans and Sutherland Computer Corp.  |  My opinions are my own, but then  =
= Salt Lake City, Utah  (801) 582-5847 |  that's my opinion.                =
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: bsy+@CS.CMU.EDU (Bennet Yee)
Subject: Woodstocks Pizza
Reply-To: bsy+@cs.cmu.edu
Organization: Cranberry Melon, School of Cucumber Science
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:51:00 GMT

I still fondly recall the time when I got disgusted by the residence
hall ``food'' and got Woodstocks pizza for an entire week.  Five
toppings Moo U special.  Yummers!  Of course, it didn't exactly help
my weight any....

I wish there's a pizza place that's comparable here.

-bsy

-- 
Bennet S. Yee		Phone: +1 412 268-7571		Email: bsy+@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: Martin A Laster <mlaster@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Write a short story
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:13:46 GMT


This is for all you creative story writers.  Let's see how well you can write.

If you could create a character for you to be for only one night at your
favorite night club, what would you think would happen that night at that
club.  Explain in detail the following;
 
	1) your character (i.e. employee, user)
	2) your night at the club (i.e. things you did, people you met)
  
Please keep it as realistic as possible, but also creative as possible.
This is for a study that I am doing for a night club owner who is planning
to open a new club.

Send all replies to this post to vlusane@magnusug.acs.ohio-state.edu

Have Fun !!!!!!!!!

Thank you
From: dzappala@caldera.usc.edu (Daniel Zappala)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: New thread
Date: 17 Nov 1992 16:50:20 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dzappala@caldera.usc.edu (Daniel Zappala)
NNTP-Posting-Host: caldera.usc.edu


In article <1ec05rINNedi@pollux.usc.edu>, mholling@pollux.usc.edu (Michelle Hollinger) writes:
|> 
|> I really miss the people from my hometown of Portland.
|> 
|> Just out of curiosity, are there any native Oregonians out here in LA. 
|> Maybe we could get together and have a six-pack of Henry's.
|> 
|> 							Michelle

Nope, though I do go to Corvallis periodically to visit my girlfriend.
Now *that* is a wonderful town, whether it be hiking Mary's peak
or roller-blading the parks or having dinner at Michael's Landing
over the river...heck, even going to watch the Beavers lose would
be fun.  I miss Oregon a lot, and I'm not even a resident...

I've been to Portland as well, around Council Crest, and into
the downtown area.  What great fountains you folks have!  I can't wait
to visit Portland again over Christmas.  I hope it snows again.

I plan to get out of LA as soon as possible. :-)


Daniel
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Paul Cass)
Subject: Re: Measure 9 (was Re: Me be a oregoner)
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 18:37:10 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.125622.5015@cs.cornell.edu> aleta@cs.cornell.edu (Aleta Ricciardi) writes:
>In article <richard.722036600@dutepp13>, Richard.Kooijman@dnpap.et.tudelft.nl (Richard Kooijman) writes:
>|> dixon@spot.Colorado.EDU (Life is real?) writes:
>|> 
>|> Oregon is also the state where some sick souls came up with measure 9.
>
>that's what i'm curious about.  how'd such a vile thing get so far? 
>so much support?  on the east coast coverage was sporadic, but i'd be 
>interested in understanding the tactics this lon mabon person used in
>hyping measure 9, why these were successful, and - more important - the
>tactics used to defeat it.  it's no secret that he and others of his ilk
>plan to target other states...
>
>	aleta
>
>"the new world order has a third reich odor"
>	

Measure #9 was promoted through the use of scare tactics.  Homosexuality
was equated with perversion and the idea that there was some sort of
evil group intent upon corrupting and morally devouring children.  Fear
and biblical interpretation remained the primary weapons.

The actual measure was probabley illegal and would have been challenged
in the courts by the state before it could have gone into effect.

Paul

-- 
                          * * * * * * *
"It is possible to join forces, to identify common goals, and to agree on
 common action." - U.N. World Commission on Development and Environment
		       casspa@jacobs.cs.orst.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: forbesm@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Mark Forbes)
Subject: Re: Woodstocks Pizza
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 03:18:35 GMT

Fear not, all. It's all still here. Clod's, Normal's, Woodstock's, Togo's, 
the Old Weird Deli, Michael's Landing and the New Morning Bakery. 

After 7 years in exile (SF bay area) it's sure nice to be home.

Mark G. Forbes | forbesm@atlantis.cs.orst.edu
Corvallis, OR  | 503 757 8416 work phone    | Hardware R & D
Sparcom Corp.

Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: devore@ftp.phy.uab.edu (Todd Edward DeVore)
Subject: Re: new thread
Keywords: Ashland, etc.
Organization: University of Alabama at Birmingham
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 18:52:40 GMT

In article <By1pEn.AvL@rice.edu> dboyes@is.rice.edu (David E Boyes) writes:
>In article <1992Nov19.193814.20779@leland.Stanford.EDU> geddy@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scott Schaefer) writes:
>
>>Neither
>>Oregon nor Oregon State can afford to pay competitive salaries,
>
>That's true enough. Thanks, Measure 5...8-(.
>
>>isn't much research done anywhere in the state. 
>
>Depends on your field. There's some terrific stuff being done in
>marine bio, laser optics and sociology being done at UO, but the
>scope and depth is really strangled by the lack of funds. Most of
>the really significant stuff is funded by outside grants.
>
>On another topic, could someone arrange an airlift of Henry's to
>Houston? The last supplier in Houston stopped carrying it a few
>months ago, and some of us are getting pretty desperate. The
>nearest Henry's is in Austin....sigh.
>
>
>
>-- 
>David Boyes
>dboyes@rice.edu


i myself would have loved to stay in OR and do my graduate work in physics,
 since they do have a strong program(and a cool new building at UO).
 Unfortunately, not being among the small % given TA's or financial support
 nnd in debt from my Lewis&Clark degree, i like many others have
 been temporarily transplanted. I hope Oregons higher ed. will recover
 from measure five. Oregon deserves better than that.

 Soon ill be back with my girlfried in good ol Newberg OR an
 ahvin some widmer hiefewiezen with a view of hood -CANT WAIT! :)
From: stansbury-travis@yale.edu (Travis Stansbury)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Oregon is the best (after B.C)
Date: 18 Nov 1992 16:01:47 -0500
Organization: Yale University
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

In article <1ee8c7INN12t@talon.UCS.ORST.EDU> scotts@math.orst.edu (Scott Settlemier) writes:
>Waldo Lake, supposedly the clearest lake in the world. (Snorkeling in the lake
>is like flying over some otherworld landscape. The water is as if not there
>and the bottom is covered with lichen like stuff in places, lots of rocks in
>others, light colored sand in still others. No damn algae or mud.)

I grew up in Oakridge, and simply love the whole area - spent some time
up at Waldo Lake this summer - its beauty just never wears out.  Also
skiing at Willamette Pass has been an activity I've enjoyed since I was
five - it's getting bigger, but hasn't lost that small-area feeling that
I remember so well from the late 70's.

>
>Crater Lake. (Nothing need be more said.)
>
Also was there this summer - same comments as above...

>Sahalie Falls and Wild Horse Falls and lots of others. (It's nice to live in
>a region where volcanism is active leaving lots of rock for falls.)
>
Don't forget to stop in at Salt Creek Falls on your way up Willamette
Pass.

>Three Sisters. (Nice easy climbs yet still beatiful mountains.)

I was on a fire (great summer job fire-fighting) in a BEAUTIFUL place
near Sisters (the town)... I think it was called George Lake or
something.  It was like a mini Crater Lake nestled deep in a wilderness
area (as in USFS Wilderness Area), a good hike away from any road...
I'll go back one of these days to enjoy it while it is not on fire :)

I've only spent a few summers there, but if you have the time, Eastern
Oregon has some really remote and beautiful places to visit.  The Owyhee
River offers some tremendous camping and recreational opportunites, if
you can manage to get in (we're talkin remote here).  The Baker (City)
area offers some very interesting history - especially if you are
interested in mining, Native American History, etc.  Also don't forget
the Southern Oregon Coast, the Oregon Caves, the Hult Center in Eugene,
etc.    I can't wait to get Home!
                         
   



-- 
   ______________________________________________________
   | Travis Stansbury, Yale '94  || 2358 Yale Station   |
   | travis@minerva.cis.yale.edu || New Haven, CT 06520 |
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: geddy@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scott Schaefer)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Help wanted.
Date: 17 Nov 92 22:21:34 GMT
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA

In article <MERLYN.92Nov17132328@romulus.reed.edu> merlyn@ora.com (Randal L. Schwartz) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.201418.26999@leland.Stanford.EDU> hemiola@leland.Stanford.EDU (e. shen) writes:
>   how please to pronounce the following word:
>
>
>		      TUALATIN
>
>"Throat Warbler Mangrove"
>
>You're welcome.
>
>[if you don't get it, ask on alt.fan.monty-python]
>

Hey, this is alt.CULTURE.oregon.  We don't want no monty python jokes.

We only want stuff about symphonies and plays...

sjs
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: dicks@cfsmo.honeywell.com (Richard D. Schlotfeldt)
Subject: Re: Me be a oregoner
Organization: J. Random Misconfigured Site
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:43:23 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
X-Posted-From: sun3a-hyde.honeywell.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Travis Stansbury (stansbury-travis@yale.edu) wrote:
: Oh come now, Oregon is full of culture - just perhaps not what your
: average yuppy urbanite expects.  For my money, Oregon, culture and all,
: is the best of all worlds - urban (if that is what you want), rural,
: mountains (that's where I'm from), coast, desert, etc., etc.,  Its got
: it all, and if we can manage to keep the Californians from flooding in,
: there is no state that rivals it, IMHO.  
:  
I want to pick berries in July. Don't tell those Californians
where to find them!

With the decline of Univac<<<<<<Sperry<<<<<<Unisys, CDC, Honeywell,
Northwest Airlines, and Zycad (extracted by Californians) we may
*have* to move when this contract is finished. Moving back to
Oregon would be a good cultural experience.

Dick Schlotfeldt
Temporarily? a Minnesotan
From: bryce_jasmer@next.com (Bryce Jasmer)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: New thread
Date: 23 Nov 92 20:24:16 GMT

Scott Schaefer writes
>What do you miss most about the Beaver State?

The variety in weather. I've been here (Silicon Valley) a year and a half now  
and the weather hasn't changed. OK, it rained a couple of times, but that was  
it. My final four years of residency in Oregon all had some decent snow  
storms. The thought of driving to the snow is pretty foreign to me. Oregon  
had a great variety of weather (although just a tad on the wet side.)

An interesting thing to note is that my commute has improved by moving from  
Beaverton to Silicon Valley. Sunset highway was much worse than the chunk of  
101 that I have to drive down here.

Bryce Jasmer
bryce_jasmer@next.com
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: merlyn@ora.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Help wanted.
Organization: Stonehenge Consulting Services; Portland, Oregon, USA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 21:23:35 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.201418.26999@leland.Stanford.EDU> hemiola@leland.Stanford.EDU (e. shen) writes:
   how please to pronounce the following word:


		      TUALATIN

"Throat Warbler Mangrove"

You're welcome.

[if you don't get it, ask on alt.fan.monty-python]

Just another native-born Oregonian,
--
Randal L. Schwartz / Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095
merlyn@ora.com (semi-permanent) merlyn@reed.edu (for newsreading only)
factoid: "Portland, Oregon, home of the California Raisins and Lone-Star Beer!"
From: @prism.cs.orst.edu ()
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Wanna Scare Off Californians?
Date: 23 Nov 1992 21:27:59 GMT
Organization: Oregon State University, Computer Science Dept.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: prism.cs.orst.edu

In article <1erfuuINN8ng@agate.berkeley.edu> lindaa@sooth.Berkeley.EDU (Linda Absher) writes:
>Want to frighten off Californians?  Just *tell* them how much rain
>falls in (plug-in name of hometown here!)  
>

Some places on the West side of the coast range get up to 150 inches of
rain a year.  It's thought that some places may go over 200 inches,
but no one has measuring stations there.

Lots of places in the valley get only 30-40 inches a year, but it tends
to be strung out in 1/4-inch days from October to, oh, September.

I recall one winter when there was measurable rain every day for some
43 straight days.

Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: lockheed@nevada.edu (STEVE KIRK)
Subject: Rogue Valley...
Originator: lockheed@redrock.nevada.edu
Keywords: Medford, Ashland, Central Point, Rogue Valley
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 02:40:58 GMT

The Big Question of the day...

Any hail from the Rogue Valley??  
Medford/Ashland/Grants Pass
Talent/Phoenix/Jacksonville/Eagle Pt/Central Pt./White City/Gold Hill/etc

I don't believe that SOSC has an internet link (that's a shame) so I don't
'spose I'll find any posts FROM the valley, but it'd still be interesting
to see who all out there in big-bad net-land recalls...
Pappy's Pizza?
How about the old Heiney Wine commercials from KTMT 93.1
Let's see... Crater High School??? (my alma matter, of course--Class of 88!)
Otis MaGoo's in Ashland?

Been in Vegas now for nearly 5 yrs and have YET to find someone who's familiar
with the ol' homestead.  

I'll be up there in the Valley for a couple of days over Christmas...
anyone interested in getting together and downin' a couple tall ones?
 
LATE!
-Steve  (lockheed@redrock.nevada.edu)




-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven B. Kirk        |Do ya hear 'em??          |I'Net - lockheed@nevada.edu
Business Student &    |IT'S THE DAMN KILLER BEES!|CIS   - 72330,1756
 Future Banker        |DIVE!DIVE! AOOGA! AOOGA!  |Subspace - <in progress>
From: scotts@math.orst.edu (Scott Settlemier)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Oregon is the best (after B.C)
Date: 18 Nov 1992 20:17:11 GMT
Organization: Oregon State University Math Department
NNTP-Posting-Host: buyme.math.orst.edu

Places to see, there are SO many. Here's a couple off the top of my head.
I'd be interested in hearing of others and why to see them.

The Umpqua river area, and especially the Boulder Creek Wilderness adjacent.
(The most fantastic campsite I've ever seen was atop a cliff there. It had a
spring for water that turned into a tiny water fall. A flat clean area for
setting up camp that overlooked the Boulder Creek valley, tabletop rocks that
look made for sitting and enjoying the view. All of it was not far from the
trail and had good sites for responsible fires.)

Waldo Lake, supposedly the clearest lake in the world. (Snorkeling in the lake
is like flying over some otherworld landscape. The water is as if not there
and the bottom is covered with lichen like stuff in places, lots of rocks in
others, light colored sand in still others. No damn algae or mud.)

Terwilliger Hot Springs. (Yeah, great to enjoy a relaxing soak in several
pools, one of which should suit you temperature-wise.)

Crater Lake. (Nothing need be more said.)

Sahalie Falls and Wild Horse Falls and lots of others. (It's nice to live in
a region where volcanism is active leaving lots of rock for falls.)

Three Sisters. (Nice easy climbs yet still beatiful mountains.)

Mission Street Theatre and Pub. (Drink a Henry's and watch free movies on the
big screen.)

Old Town Pizza. (If you've been there, you know why. If not you need to go.)

Well, enough. Let's hear others.


     Scott Settlemier (6th gen. Oregonian and planning to stay.)

Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: coleman@rocky.cs.ucla.edu (Mike Coleman)
Subject: Re: Influx of Californians? Gee--what a surprise!
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 14:09:12 GMT

reidyj@CS.ORST.EDU (Jay Reidy) writes:
|  People are leaving California because it's polluted, overcroded and
|  broke.

California is still has a positive immigration flow; i.e., more people move to
CA each year (from other states) than away from it.

With the exception of LA and SF/Oakland, it's not particularly polluted or
overcroded [sic].

It's not obvious that the financial condition of CA is bad enough to motivate
someone to move.  Those most affected, the poor, are less likely to have the
wherewithal to move in any case.

|  The place has been broken for years, and now it doesn't have any
|  money to bail itself out.  The place is politically, intellectually
|  and morally bankrupt.

Many progressive laws are first enacted in CA and then spread across the
nation.  CA has more than its share of excellent educational institutions.  CA
likely has the most socially progressive and tolerant atmosphere in the
country.


There are a great many good reasons to leave CA.  You haven't mentioned them,
though.  Have you even lived in CA?





-- 
--Mike Coleman (coleman@cs.ucla.edu), Lord High Executioner of Anhedonia-----
     Q: And you program in BASIC, of course...  A: Not even at gunpoint.
From: reidyj@CS.ORST.EDU (Jay Reidy)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Influx of Californians?  Gee--what a surprise!
Date: 20 Nov 1992 18:01:30 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: storm.cs.orst.edu

In article <1992Nov20.111347.24071@cs.ucla.edu> coleman@rocky.cs.ucla.edu (Mike Coleman) writes:
>I don't see why everyone is so surprised that neighboring states are
>experiencing a sizeable influx of Californians--what would you expect?
>Wyomingans?  
>
>California is the most populous state in the nation, and much larger than its
>neighbors.  If you assume that CAers move out of state as much as everyone
>else, then naturally surrounding states will see a large inflow.
  People are leaving California because it's polluted, overcroded and
  broke.
  
  The place has been broken for years, and now it doesn't have any
  money to bail itself out.  The place is politically, intellectually
  and morally bankrupt.
  

Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: mcginnis-john@cs.yale.edu (mcginni)
Subject: Re: Me be a oregoner
Organization: Yale University
	<1992Nov17.205652.26390@cs.cornell.edu>
	<1992Nov18.173019.2862@cs.sfu.ca>
	<MERLYN.92Nov18114428@romulus.reed.edu> <walter.722329780@nova>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 02:52:43 GMT


In article <walter.722329780@nova> walter@nova.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de (Walter Obermiller) writes:

> merlyn@ora.com (Randal L. Schwartz) writes:
> 
> >In article <1992Nov18.173019.2862@cs.sfu.ca> shell@cs.sfu.ca (Barry Shell) writes:
> >   I always felt the best example of Oregonian culture was a poster ad
> >   program I once saw in Portland. The poster showed a fellow in a big
> >   overcoat, from the back, standing in front of a statue, with the coat
> >   open. The caption underneath read, "Expose Yourself To Art".
> 
> >My poster says "to Randal, the best video guy I know...  Whoop Whoop!"
> 
> Do you know whether that poster is still sold yet? I was negligent
> enough not to get a copy when I could. Interestingly, I have seen
> this poster as far away from OR as Paris (not Tx, but France). People
> there however didn't know about the 'mayor implications'.
> 

Well, the strangest place I have ever seen this poster was on the
wall in an episode of the British comedy series "The Young Ones."
That was kinda bizarre...

I also personally ran across the poster when I was walking down to
the lower level of the Yale Co-op.  I would have bought it, but it
was being sold framed, and I am but a poor student...  :-)

- mcginni
-- 
--
John McGinnis				There's a feeling I get,
mcginnis-john@yale.edu			When I look to the West,
(203) 436-1504				And my spirit is crying for leaving.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon