From: varnavas@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (varnavas constantine)
Subject: Re: Turkish Logic (was Re: Understanding...)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:56:11 GMT

sadi@physics1 (Sadi Turgut) writes:

>In article <1992Oct6.072441.25547@wuecl.wustl.edu> tpd1@cec2.wustl.edu (Theodore P. David) writes:
>> > How about Enosis?  Isn't it based on Megali Idea? Although, today people
>> 
>> 	I don't think so. "Enosis" was the desire of 82% of the population of 
>                                                     ^^^
>> the island to unify with Greece and not vice versa (which is "Megali Idea").

> Are you inventing numbers by yourself Theodore? :-). 

Theodore does not invent numbers.  It is true that more than 95% of the Greek-
Cypriots and even some Turkish Cypriots demanded Enosis in the plebiscite
of 1950.  Given the fact that Greek-Cypriots are 82% of the population then
it is clear where Theodore's numbers come form.  I don't understand the smiley
after your comment.  Unless even yourself don't believe that what you are
saying is serious.

>There was only one case in which 'Enosis' is brought to the vote of
>Greek Cypriots, which was the so-called "plebiscite" of 1950, where
>voting took the form of writing ones name on a petition posted outside
>the churches.

What is the problem of the plebiscite and why to you refer to it as "the 
so-called "plebiscite" "?  It was after all a plebiscite performed under
British rule.  Cypriots did not have the luxury to express their will in
free elections.  So they resorted to expressing their will by signing the
plebiscite.

>In this way Greek Cypriots got the oppurtunity to display
>how nationalistic they were by "voting," or ....(you fill in the spaces.)

Greek Cypriots had the opportunity to express their WILL and DESIRE.
Again I don't understand the sarcasm.  The plebiscite was not an election.
Nobody claimed that.  Theodore refer to it as "expression of desire".  If
it was not fair or not democratic or there was any violence involved then
present evidence to support it.  Otherwise accept it as what it is:  The
expression of the desire of 82% of the population of Cyprus to unite with
Greece.

> Anyway. Let's get back to the main point. Enosis efforts were not the sole product
>of Greek Cypriots or the Greek Cypriot people. There were many more active
>supporters from the "motherland," like Grivas.

Is this a display of ignorance?  Grivas was a Cypriot.

>the Sampson coup, which was completely arranged by Greek junta to oust
>slow-working-in-the-way-of-Enosis Makarios. The point is not  whether
>or not Greek Cypriots supported Enosis (which most of us don't have
>such suspicions, though it may not be true.) but whether some people
>in Greece supported it. And by support, I don't mean emotionally or
>principally. Support in a way to destroy it.

Your logical train of throught puzzles me.  The fact that Greece supported
Cypriots in their desire of Enosis does not constitute the 'Megali Idea'.
Cypriots, in their vast majority,  desired Enosis with Greece.  Some Greeks
supported this idea.  This is quite different than Greece invading Cyprus
to annex her, despite of the will of the Cypriots (Hm...  what does that
reminds me of?)   I think it is you that has missed the point entirely.

>> >do not talk much about it, it didn't disappear yet. During Papandreu's
>> >visit, lots of 'Enosis' slogans were heard. Also, what does 'pan-Hellenic'
>> >mean? And why 'Hellen-ism' frequently means 'Greeks'?
>> >
>> 	Well, that's an easy one. Because 'Hellenism' does not "frequently"
>> means 'Greeks'; it is the SAME thing. From Webster's dictionary:
>> 	Hel-len-ic: of or relating to Greece, its people or its language.
>> 	Hel-len-ism : Greek civilization.

> You are not saying the same thing. The main question is what is the
>job of "-ism" there?

I am trying to understand the meaning of the above.  The job of the "-ism"
there is to indicate the Greek civilization, as it was pointed above.
What is the problem with that?

>> Regards,
>> Theodore David

> Sadi Turgut
>-- 
-- 
Constantinos Varnavas
University of Illinois