From: kendall@adobe.com (Janice Kendall)
Subject: Re: Male Men Bashers
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 03:54:06 GMT

In article <93020.1332133399390@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> <3399390@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>Someone (The Great Name?) offered as a definition of feminism "that set of

 Well... he never actually did give a definition...

>beliefs which is held by 95% of all feminists".  This needs some work.  I
>call myself a feminist, so I'll start.  This is a list of SOME of my beliefs.

 As another so called feminist, I'll see how our beliefs match up:

>For fun, I'll start with:
>
>0.  The earth goes around the sun.
>
>The rest, though, are the beliefs I have which I connect in some sense
>with being a feminist:
>
>1.  Awareness of date rape should be raised among college students (my
>    age group).

 Agree.

>2.  Abortion is morally wrong, and should be illegal except in the case
>    when the life of the woman is in danger... etc etc disclaimer etc
>    etc more disclaimer...rape...incest..etc.

 Disagree.

>3.  If birth control fails, both the man and the woman should be stuck
>    with supporting the child, or else must agree to put the child up
>    for adoption.

 Too black and white.  I believe in abortion rights and believe that 
 a man should have a mechanism for "aborting" during the same period 
 that a woman can.  In other words, the woman should be able to make
 her decision on whether to abort, keep the baby, or give it up for
 adoption based on whether the man desires to raise and be responsible
 for a child resulting from an unplanned pregnancy.

x>4.  Educational establishments are still in various ways preventing or
>    discouraging women from reaching their full potential in such areas
>    as engineering, math etc.  Female role models would play an important
>    part in overcoming this.

 I experienced this.

>5.  Censorship of pornography is OK.  (Note: here take pornography to mean
>    sexual material which *I* think is degrading to men or women.  If some-
>    one is in doubt as to whether or not something is pornography, they
>    can just ask me! :)

 I disagree.

>6.  Affirmative action is OK.

 Depends on what you mean.  I believe in Equal Opportunity for those
 qualified.  I don't know how you ensure this.  What I do believe in is
 an equally good education for all.

>7.  Sexual harrassment of men or women is bad.  Men and women have a respon-
>    sibility to learn about what the other gender (or anyone) might
>    consider harassing, and to respect this.

 Although this can vary greatly from one person to another.  Better, they
 should listen to one another and there should be support from superiors,
 when a complaint is made, to work through the problem.

>8.  Men and women make equally good parents,and equally good employees.

 Agree.

>9.  Jokes putting women down are sexist.  Jokes putting men down are funny.
>    (This is terrible, I know, and I feel guilty.  I know
>    its wrong but... but... well, I'm working on it.  Q:  How many
>    feminists does it take to screw in a light bulb?  A:  Thats not funny.)

 Sigh.

>10. Men and women should be paid the same for doing the same job.

 Agree.

>11. Jobs
>    that have traditionally been done by women are underpaid (like nursing).

 Agree. 

>12. Women should be drafted as well, where a draft exists.
 
 Agree.  I have trouble with the draft in general (when the country is
 really threated, or jobs scarce, you'll have enough volunteers).

>13. There is an epidemic of male violence against women.

 There is an epidemic of violence against men, too.

>14. It would be great to have a female Prime Minister of Canada!

 It would be great to have a female president of the U.S.!

 Your list hits on some basic themes.  Another topic on my feminist/
 humanist list is the treatment of children by our society:

 - I support parental leave.  Parents should not be penalized for
   being parents.  (Only 1% of fathers who have parental leave available
   take advantage of it because of the stigma associated with it and the
   possible negative effects it will have on their careers.  Or so said
   a radio news item...)

 - There should be programs to enable men and women to reenter the job 
   market and their career track after staying home with a pre-school child.  
   
 - Businesses and government and parents should come together to provide
   higher quality child care.
   
 - There should be better access to quality education for any that desire it.

 Janice Kendall    kendall@adobe.com    ...!{decwrl|sun}!adobe!kendall

      Don't Panic!  Clinton will be our *42*nd President.