HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tang1613@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tariq A. Nayfeh)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .45 Win. Mag. pistols?
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:56:28 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune) writes:

#Well, Grizzly makes the LAR in .45 Win Mag.  This looks pretty much like a
#1911 with a much larger frame, and the ones I've seen have had a compensator
#at the end.  They're beautiful guns, but quite large.  I saw someone at a 
#local range last Saturday who was firing one, and the sight was quite
#impressive (or scary, as the case may be).  From the other side of the range 
#(10 lanes down), the muzzle flash was still incredible, as was the noise.
#A little observation made it clear that recoil was not something to be taken
#lightly, either...

This is my first post so bare with me...
The LAR in .45 Win Mag. hurts a lot to shoot.  I shot one that belonged to 
a gun store owner and my hand hurt for the next two days.  Personally I like to
shoot my .44 mag offhand and enjoy magnum calibers very much.  This one         (without compensator) was too much to handle.  I'm 6'1" 220lbs and used
to compete as a weightlifter.  Hence, I feel I can handle a lot of recoil.
Tariq
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun Solvent Substitutes
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:16:18 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1992Oct13.002958.6699@netcom.com> douglas@netcom.com (Douglas Mason) writes:
#In article <1992Oct12.142006.22614@bbxrbk> bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler) writes:
#
##The brake cleaners are identical to "Gun Scrubber" and it's ilk, and
#
#Is this really true?  I had some guy in a gun shop (they know everything)
#tell me that the Brake Cleaner stuff is really flammable, and the Gun Scrubebr
#(scrubber) stuff is not - that's the difference.

He's misinformed.

#I like using Gun Scrubber just because the spray blows away bits that I have
#a hard time finding...

Same as the brake cleaner.  Let's see:  I clean Glocks, SIGs and
sundry other guns with synthetic parts with only the Marlin Camp
Carbine showing any signs of plastic softening, and that only after
letting a rag soaked with cleaner sit on the mag well made of plastic.
Since then I've cleaned it a 1/2 dozen times with no problems at all.

OK - here's the contents: 1,1,1 trichloroethane, perchloroethylene and
carbon dioxide (likely as a propellant).  Nope, nothing flammable and
identical to most of the gun cleaning sprays.

My cleaning method usually involves cleaning with Hoppes #9, scrubbing
the bore and cylinder chambers with a phosphor bronze brush, usually
2-3 cycles of scrub, wet patch, dry patch.  This is followed by a
scrubbing of the other parts fouled by powder residue using a nylon or
phosphor bronze brush (nylon for anything with plastic).  At this
point the firearm is pretty well covered by #9, so I hose off the
whole thing with brake cleaner and let it dry (about 5 minutes at the
worst).  I then wet a couple of patches with Break-Free CLP, run one
with a jag through the barrel and the other through cylinder and go
back over the piece with the patches to re-oil the surface.

I don't need to leave the piece sloppy with oil as storage is
protected from humidity (living in New Mexico helps a bit as well).

-- 
Russ Kepler, posting from home
Will hack unix for food 		(.sig stolen from dt - sorry, dt)
From: bluemoon!jamaass@gator.rn.com (Jeffrey A. Maass)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SIG 226 9mm
Date: 14 Oct 92 12:08:53 GMT
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])

hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:

# In article <1992Oct10.024605.23678@newshub.sdsu.edu> ucsd!sdsu!hercules.SDSU.
# }I saw a movie called FEDS (with beautiful Rebecca DeMornay) not too long ago
# }and in one scene they had SIG 226 (not 100% sure about the model number) 9mm
# }I gathered from the dialogue that this handgun is a very good one, able to 
# }handle different load powers, so on and so forth. It was a great looking gun
# }indeed.
# }Can anybody shed light about what this gun is, the exact model, how good it
# }really is and where I can write to get a manual?
# 
# I didn't see the film, but anyone who owns a SIG P226 will be happy to
# tell you they're one of the finest combat pistols made.  My only complaint
# about mine is it's a bit large for concealed carry.  Otherwise, it's very
# accurate and _extremely_ reliable (no jams of any kind in over 1000
# rounds).  Contrary to popular non-wisdom, they can handle +p ammunition
# loaded within SAAMI maximums.
# 


Be aware, though, that the SIG 226 shown in the movie was, most
definately, *NOT* a stock SIG 226! It had a compensator mounted
(how many of THOSE have you seen) which was clearly a Hollywood
attempt to make the weapon more "impressive".

To make sure that the audience was impressed, the compensator
was chromed, while the pistol was dark (K-Kote or whatever).

Jeff Maass                   Amateur Radio: K8ND (@ W8CQK)
Powell OH (NW of Columbus)         Netmail: jamaass@bluemoon.uucp
From: bigdog@bones.et.byu.edu (Dan Canfield)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Is Balistic 4.00 the latest?
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:55:36 GMT
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA

Thanks to all for the input on a balistic program.  I downloaded
Balistic v4.00 last night and have been playing with it today.
Does anyone know if this is the latest version of the program?
Also, because it was created in '89, does anyone know if 
William Frenchu, the author is still at 79 Taylor Terrace  in
Hopewell, NJ.  I want to register with him, but want to make sure
he is still there.

Any info would be appreciated.

Dan Canfield
bigdog@bones.caedm.byu.edu

DoD #0071,RP90
'89 FJ1200
'89 Indy707
------------------------------------------------------------------
"Excuss me while I kiss the sky" - Jimi Hendrix
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: padeniso@eos.ncsu.edu (PAUL ANDREW DENISOWSKI)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SIG 226 9mm
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:58:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: ncsu.1992Oct15.122101.28856
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos




	The Sig-226 is by far the best handgun I've ever fired, very good
weight distribution, very accurate, superbly reliable, etc. As I mentioned
before, it is a somewhat large gun (not a standard CC weapon).  Nevertheless,
as a small-handed person, I think the SIG is easier to hold and handle than
a number of other larger 9mm's -- the factory grips are, in my opinion, quite
comfortable.  It handles all different types of ammunition well (I've shot
everything from el-cheapo 115 gr. remanufacture to the high-pressure Highway
Patrol load stuff) ... definately not a finicky gun.  The downside is of course
the price (given the strong D-Mark, etc.) -- I think they list (ha!) for about
$750, but you can probably find a new one for around $550 if you shop around.
It's also one of the few handguns I would buy used without too many reservations.

	By the way, I saw what I thought was a 226 with (of all things) wood
grips the other day -- does anyone else know what I'm talking about?
From: mcgillis@pooh.sdd.trw.com (J. Mcgillis)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: DCM Activities in S. Cal.
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:54:24 GMT
Organization: TRW, Inc.

Are there any DCM organized / sanctioned shooting events for high power
rifles in southern California?

Thanks,

Jack
-- 

				Jack McGillis
			mcgillis@pooh.sdd.trw.com
From: wmartin@STL-06SIMA.ARMY.MIL (Will Martin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re:  DCM finally responds!
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:59:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: gyre.9210151835.AA12071

#From: "C. H. Lochmuller" <clochmul@nrambr.chem.duke.edu>
#... Then again I could sell the Blue Sky the next day or
#buy 5 more - DCM is never sell without authorization from DCM and one in a
#lifetime. ...

I wonder about this business about not selling without "authorization"
from the DCM. Does *anybody* ever request such "authorization" from the
DCM? After all, there were thousands and thousands of firearms disposed
of via the DCM route and just about all of them so sold pre-WWII are now
out of the hands of their now-deceased original recipients, and in the
collector market or sporterized, and I very much doubt that any appreciable
fraction of those were ever given any such "authorization". I got a DCM
M1 Carbine back in the '50s or early '60s, when that last batch came thru
the NRA, and, while there might be some such restrictive statement on
the original paperwork (which I don't know if I could find now), there
is nothing that keeps me from trundling it down to the gun show or shop
and selling it right now... Does the DCM actually *care* about this? Do
they have the resources to process such requests for "authorization"?

Or are the Garands sold via the high-power-rifle-competition route
treated differently than the other DCM-sold firearms of past years? 
If they have a different level of restrictions on disposal than other
DCM guns, just how is this enforced or is it titular with no pretense
at enforcement? I can see the "one in a lifetime" being easily enforced
via an SSN match, but can't see how any other restrictions could be...

If you really are not legally allowed to sell it, are you supposed to
send it back to the DCM when you no longer want it? (Or is your estate
supposed to send it back after you die?) Or what?

Regards, Will
wmartin@st-louis-emh2.army.mil OR wmartin@stl-06sima.army.mil
From: kknox@logdis1.hq.aflc.af.mil (Kevin P. Knox)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Priming tool
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:16:48 GMT

This  weekend I set about to reload some 9mm ammo for a pistol that  I
ordered.   I  had  about  100  rds of 115 fmj, about  half  a  can  of
Bullseye,  and a case of primers.  I walked down the street to  borrow
the  dies that I sold to my friend (I'm still trying to figure out why
I did it?!) about a month ago, and along with the dies, he lent me the
weirdest  tool.  This tool screwed into the press where the die  would
go.   A shell holder fit into the top of this tool and a primer seater
was  on a shaft on the axis of this thing (which was shaped very  much
like  a  7/8" die).  The jist of it was that you put a primer  in  the
cup, put your sized and ready to prime casing in the shell holder, and
then  seat  the primer on the downstroke instead of the  upstroke.   I
thought  it was pretty neat until I came to realize that I would  have
to  put  each individual primer into the pocket by hand -  NO  THANKS!
What  a hassle.  I just wanted to load what I have left over to  shoot
this  gun  before  I have to store it at my mom's house for  the  next
three  years  (I'll be relocating to Great Britain - I'm  active  duty
AF).   I  couldn't  imagine setting down to load 500 rds or  so  on  a
saturday and have to contend with this tool.

Has anybody else seen anything like this?  What are the advantages?  I
can  attest personally to the disadvantages.  It seems to me that  one
would  be  just  as  well to buy a tool (such as made  by  RCBS)  made
specifically  for priming brass that also stores primers prior to use.
Any advice, comments, etc...  will be appreciated.  Thanks.

--- Kev

Kevin P. Knox  (KKNOX@LOGDIS1.HQ.AFLC.AF.MIL)

"My Opinions Are My Own And Should Probably Stay That Way!"
From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm: Which *not* to buy?
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:56:26 GMT
Organization: The Instrumentality

In article <1992Oct8.052300.20914@netcom.com> messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk) writes:
#danbri@danbri.Auto-trol.COM (Dan Brigham) writes:

[ on Browning High Power Clones ]

##Why get a clone when you can get the real thing? The real thing 
##is what built the reputation.

#Just to play the devil's advocate here for a while: Maybe.  However, 
#I played with the lastest Browning High Power, and they all seem to
#have the nice "action shooting" safety lever, large, clicky, and
#light.  Well, it may be great for the mortal dangers awaiting one from
#the hands of paper targets at a local range, but I for one much prefer
#the small, non-clicky, smooth to unlock and heavy to lock safety on
#the Argentinian clone of the High Power.  It seems designed for
#real-life use.  

Surely you jest. I assume you're talking about the larger safety lever
that's on the Portuguese-assembled-from-Belgian-parts Brownings (the only
"real" Browning High Powers that are made these days). This new safety is
an _enormous_ improvement over the tiny stub featured in the original
Browning design (and still used on the Argentine clones). The Portuguese
lever is actually useful--it's big enough to find without lengthy
examination of the gun under a magnifying glass. Having owned Brownings with
both types of levers, I would never want to go back to the old style. I
don't see how you could accidentally apply the safety, since it's engaged
by pushing _up_--something I've never done accidentally while firing the
pistol.  

#Also, it shoots great and costs *much* less than
#original.  

MUCH less? The Portugee Brownings seem to go for around $300 at local gun
shows. Are you getting the Argentine clone for box-tops, or what? 

#I would be happy to learn of any negative experiences
#with it because I intent to buy it, so any factual warning will be
#appreciated. 

I have no experience with the Argentine clones--people have told me they're
OK. But I _know_ the Portuguese Browning is superb, and I wouldn't trade
it for anything else. (The matte black finish seems to be virtually
indestructible, by the way.) 


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             |      Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist.     |
Peter Cash   |       (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein)      |cash@convex.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 12g shotgun defense ammo
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:48:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: email.1992Oct12.114626.13999
Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA

I am in search for good defense ammo for shotguns.

The guns are 12 gauge, chambered for 2.75" or 3" shotshells, with a 
cylinder choke and a 18-25" barrel.

The requirements are as follows:

- Operative range < 10 yards (indoors)
- Penetration is not an issue (walls are very solid here)
- Optimum shot spread (That could merit another discussion, i think.)
- High stopping power against two-legged vermin.

What I'd lke to know is:  What shot size yields good spread over the
short distance, while preserving enough penetration to stop?  Which
shot sizes are sufficient for defense purposes?  What do you think
about 3" vs. 2.75" cartridges?  Any other points to keep in mind with
defense ammo for shotguns?

Thanks in advance for any insights.

-- 
| Holger Reusch                             |
| Technical University of Vienna, Austria <-+--- No kangaroos here,
| Dept. for Real-Time Systems               |    sorry!
| holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at                 |
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Sale notices
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:16:35 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

Could people posting notices of sales please include their location?
I keep seeing interesting offers, then realize I'd have to drive a
few thousand miles or have it shipped through a dealer...

                                          Frank Crary
                                          CU Boulder
[MODERATOR:  A good idea.  Note, I have recently had suggestions that 
we also limit the "distribution" field a little, so as to not bother the
whole net with localisms (like classes being offered.)  Unfortunately,
news does not always handle limited distribution of *moderated* groups.
So I hope the readership will be a little tolerant of seeing posts for
activities not near their area, since on balance I think this is a win
for the group.]
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm: Which *not* to buy?
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:58:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: claudius.9210151012.aa08559


Jim Del Vecchio writes:
#Why would anyone want a _paint_ finish on a browning (or a CZ, or any
#gun for that matter)???


The "paint" is actually a baked-on enamel finish. It's advantages are that
it's cheap and easy to apply, and provides good protection of the metal
surface when unbroken. It's disadvantage is that it's a relatively thick
layer, much more so than either parkerizing or blueing (or the other
proprietary finishes). It's subject to chipping, and it looks bad when
it wears away on moving surfaces. What the hell, it works.

The British are supposed to have used a "paint" finish on some small arms,
notably the Sten; I don't know if it was enamel.

My Cz75 has the enamel finish, and apart from muddy-looking stamped markings
I find it a reasonably attractive finish, more so that the matte finish on
the metal of my Glock for instance. That may change after a few (or many)
thousand more rounds though :)


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
"That's not true," Bill hissed to his lawyer. "The facts are-"
"Don't worry about facts, Bill, no one else here does. Facts can't
alter this case."       -"Bill the Galactic Hero" Harry Harrison
From: voodoo!tomm@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Tom Mackey)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Which 9mm to buy
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:41:57 GMT
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA


In article <1992Oct1.165322.161@ncsu.edu> padeniso@eos.ncsu.edu (PAUL ANDREW DENISOWSKI) writes:
#
#I've always been very impressed by their quality and performance, albeit
#at a somewhat higher price ($600+) than most 9mm autoloaders.  The P226
#is a good gun, a little too large for CC, but still, in my opinion, an
#excellent weapon.


Ahhh, the perfect lead in to my next question (I know, three in one day is
stretching the patience of the good people assembled here).  Many months
ago someone mentioned the Sig P225.  As a quick aside here, I really don't
remember if I already posted this question.  My sincere apologies if I did
so.  It's been a long day.  Anyway, I recall that the P225 is a single
stack 9mm, which should make it easier to use as a CC weapon.  I checked
with one of my favorite shops, the owner of which checked and found that
he could get me one for $585, and that they were on some sort of closeout.
If any of you Puget Sound readers have one of these, or know someone or
some shop that has one, I'd like to examine one up close and personal.
Any other comments on the P225 welcome, especially opinions as to its use
as a concealed weapon.  Else, I am tempted by the little .380 Colts, as
I found them pretty accurate in my hand.
-- 
Tom Mackey       (206) 865-6575        tomm@voodoo.boeing.com
Boeing Computer Services         ....uunet!bcstec!voodoo!tomm
M/S 7K-20,     P.O. Box 24346,     Seattle, WA     98124-0346
From: pertinax@raley.gwinnett.COM (Pertinax)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Navy SEALS gunsite
Date: 11 Oct 92 23:13:26 GMT

I have been unable to find the original post, so I started this new thread.


I really doubt that one can see through stone walls with any scope currently
available, or likely to be built in this universe.  Infra-red may penetrate
cardboard, drapes, and certain other opaque (to us) substances, but I really
doubt that enough penetrates stone to allow one to pick out what is on the
other side.  The spooks have some suprisingly nifty hardware, but I doubt
this is possible.  Ever.

Now it may be possible to see through walls by shooting microwaves, X-rays, etc. at the building, and analyzing the reflected waves to find density
changes and resonances, and using a computer to sort out what's inside.
This sort of technology is not impossible, not even very improbable.  But
at the moment it would be too large to be gun-mounted.  And I'm not sure
it can be done from one side only.  The fancier X-ray machines at airports
can detect fruit and explosive putties this way, but they detect what passes
through, not what's reflected.  And yes, the "sniffers" probably do a better
job- they sound an alarm if explosives are detected, rather than relying on
a human to notice it.


This particular feature of the movie really annoyed me.  I also doubt that
the .50 cal machine gun rounds will go through a foot of stone, which is
how thick some of the walls appeared to be.  But I guess if you can make up
new laws of physics for light, you can make up new capabilities for ammo.


One of the replies to the original post was grasping for the name of _Blue
Thunder_, which had similar scenes.  I do not remember them seeing through
walls, only curtains.  The audio work they were doing is quite
possible, even though I'm not sure just how quiet a helicopter can be.


							Pertinax
From: bluemoon!grant@gator.rn.com (Grant DeLorean)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Silhouette shooting
Date: 11 Oct 92 23:13:27 GMT
Organization: Blue Moon

joeha@microsoft.COM writes:

#For silhouette shooters and T/C Contender owners.

 I sold both the Contenders and all the barrels I owned. I use an
MOA for production class now...

#Ever in search of new shooting sports to compete in, I
#now find I would like to get into handgun silhouette
#shooting.

 It is a wonderful sport (one might guess I feel that way as I am
a match director, an officer at another club and running for state
director...).

#Since I am already geared up for .357 Magnum, would a
#T/C Contender in this caliber allow me to be
#competitive?  I realize there are better calibers for
#the job, but I want to start out inexpensively.

 It is marginal, unless you use it in field pistol instead of
big bore. You need to use at least 180 grain bullets in .357 to
have a hope of taking the rams and a magnum won't push them fast
enough to ensure knock down consistantly. A .357 Maximum barrel
would serve you better, and a 7mm TC/U barrel even better.
(neither of these later are legal field pistol calibers though)

#As a side note: I've heard conflicting reports of
#whether or not scopes are now allowed.  Could someone
#fill me in?

 Scopes are allowed in NRA silhouette. In IHMSA (much bigger
than NRA silhouette) scopes are alowed in scoped field pistol
(like NRA hunter pistol) and there is a new standing scoped
unlimited category. Other than those categories, it is al iron
sights.
-- 
\   Grant DeLorean  - IHMSA & NRA Life Member -  (grant@bluemoon.use.com)   /

        Good leaders being scarce, following yourself is allowed.
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Penetrating ability of 38 Sp and 9mm
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:14:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Oct16.200444.4551
Organization: Western Washington University

maxxon@swob.nullnet.fi (Mikko Kurki-Suonio) writes:

## More likely it deflected and exited in a spot you didn't notice.

#I don't quite buy this. A dead-on shot from about one yard. The tube had
#a nice round hole in the front, but only cracks at rear. Spotting a 9mm
#hole in the monitor casing shouldn't be too hard.

	Maybe.  Weird stuff can happen though.   My girlfriend shot
a 2 liter bottle filled with jello as part of my important "research" 
some time ago.   The .22 hp slug made a right angle turn and a chunk of
it lodged in my finger.*   I still don't know if it turned somehow, if
it bounced off a rock or piece of metal in the soil, or what.

I collected more data on the round than I had intended.

	Qualifies as a "stupid shooter trick" certainly, but I didn't
want to win any prizes for bringing it up earlier.

I have one of those 43 statistical guns which was used to shoot
a loved one. 	%^)

Jim D

* I was not balancing the bottle on my head, ala William Tell btw.