From: harkcom@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Alton Harkcom)
Subject: Re: education (was: Re: DOES AMERICA SAY YES TO JAPAN?)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:33:34 GMT
	<BzBBw2.5nu@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
	<HARKCOM.92Dec16083416@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp>
	<BzD34B.I8E@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
Organization: Yokogawa Electric Corporation, Tokyo, Japan

In article <BzD34B.I8E@news.cso.uiuc.edu> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu
   (Brent Irvine) writes:

 =}[...] just stated that the "free" education offered 
 =}in the US, meant no tuition.  Based on the possible $1000s you would have
 =}to come up with $30 on schools supplies is TRIVIAL.  Even economically
 =}downtrodden people (myself in my youth) can scrape together $30 or so.

   Basing the relevance of the cost to the family on the entire cost of
the education is another mistake...

   The amount which a family must cover per student is not trivial except
to the financially stable.  I wouldn't estimate the cost as low as you
did either.  Supplies/Fees usually run much more than that for a year.
The big killer though is meals.  'Free lunch' programs help some, but not
many of those who can not afford to feed their children at school.  I
would estimate the cost per student at well over 100$...  Add in the cost
of things like clothing for gym class and such and this figure can climb
to well over 200$...  And since most poorer families have many children,
this cost can be pretty high in total.  And that doesn't even begin to
address the prejudices that those children will have to face due to their
parents lack of funds...

   Now take this into consideration while examining the financial
situation of the family.  In most cases, the family is so deep in debt
(from paying for things like heating oil in the winter, food, shelter...)
that they must scrape together all their loose change just to keep the
collectors from taking the furnace, car, house, first born (Just
Kidding:)...

 =}> =}People quitting before 16, I have never heard of here.
 =}
 =}>   It is easy when families move around a lot (as most financially
 =}>difficult families do).  Records get lost or never get set up...
 =}>Records are there but the family can't be found.  The family can be
 =}>found, but at the slightest bit of pressure they disappear...
 =}
 =}Um, yes, I suppose you could, but it is not common and many parents
 =}would send their kids to school anyway

   It is not as uncommon as you think.  In my first year of high school
several of my friends quit school permanently...  I was even considering
it myself.  I was lucky enough not to because of my mother's high regard
for education.  Many of my friends weren't as lucky.

   But what has 'common' got to do with it anyway?...  Even if the
percentage of students denied an education do to financial circumstances
is as low as 1% (a ridiculously low estimate), then that is 1% too much...

 =}[it is viewed as an easy way out of poverty].

   Nothing easy about getting out of poverty...

   By the poor, school is normally viewed as financial interference as
it costs money without providing benefits (only apparently) and deprives
the family of one more full time worker...  Very few poor people see it
as a means of escape.

   But please don't confuse this with education in general.  Poor people
see education as a means of improving oneself and opening up new
opportunities (possibly financial ones).  What they don't see as such is
the current US educational system...

 =}>   Suspension also varies from system to system.  Suspensions of up to
 =}>one year are not uncommon in some cases.  A student who is suspended
 =}	     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 =}Bzzt.  Suspensions of any kind are fairly UNCOMMON, but are the punishment
 =}for some 'crimes.'

   At schools in poorer areas, suspensions are fairly COMMON. (do all-
caps make it easier to understand? :)

 =}I would like to hear an example of someone that was
 =}suspended for the school year!  The parents would sue the district if a
 =}misguided principal tried to do that!

   My younger brother was suspended for the remainder (nearly half) of the
school year during junior high school.  It is not uncommon or illegal...

 =}>beyond the attendence limits can be suspended for the rest of the year
 =}>in many school systems...
 =}Yeah, if there are 3 days left in school, and the suspension is for
 =}3 days, yes.

   That is only one of the possibilities.  A 3 day suspension in the
middle of the year when the student only has 2 days left for aquiring
attendence can turn into a half year suspension...

 =}Reality check is required at this point:

   Reality checks...  An interesting concept.  A point at which we
examine the current situation to determine if it fits into our
understanding of reality.  Wouldn't it be more properly named
"My-Reality check" ...

 =}Suspensions from school are
 =}typically one week or less.  It can be longer, but that is at the
 =}discretion of the principal and the 'crime.'

   Typically so, but not always so...

 =}> =} Expulsion
 =}>
 =}>   Criminal activities are sometimes used as grounds for expulsion of
 =}>even those under the age of 16...
 =}
 =}True, like selling drugs, or murder or some such. [all but drug dealing
 =}are VERY rare]

   Assault is another one.   This one occurs rather frequently.

   To head off another needless tangent:  yes I know that assaults usually
end up as 'suspension until meeting with parent' or some such, but
occaisionally they can end up as expulsion...

   And there are others...  Malicious damage to school property...
Drug possesion...  Weapons possesion... Sexual activity...
--
---

   I will be on vacation from 12/18 - 12/27 and will not be able to
read email during that time.  My company will be on vacation from
12/29 - 1/4 and our news and mail servers will be down during that time...

   Sorry for the inconvenience...
Xref: sparky misc.education:5241 alt.discrimination:5301 soc.culture.african.american:12859 soc.women:21451