From: gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras)
Subject: Re: Time for belts/knife techniques
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:13:54 GMT

drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:

>In article khc2674@zeus.tamu.edu (Bruce as my Shepherd) writes:
>>The point of this post is whether anyone trains against a knife held in 
>>that [reverse grip] manner.

>For some, this is the preferred fighting grip, so you have 
>to train against it even if you would never use it yourself.  
>From the defender's point of view, things I notice about reverse 
>grip include: 

Bear in mind that a good fighter may switch grips in flight.

>   -   The most important feature of a reverse grip attack is 
>that it has less range, requiring the attacker to be closer, and 
>therefore allowing your kicks to be more effective.

It also changes the angle from which strikes will come. You can'd
do a truly straight in strike holding the knife this way.  Someone
who's practiced fighting this grip is likely to use a lot of circular
slashes.  It also facilitates  a sort of reversed "hooking" motion.
In close this can really rip up an opponent.

>   -   It tends to make blades a lot harder to spot.

Yup.

>   -   Forget about wrist controls.  Reverse grip protects the
>attacker's wrists very well.  Even sticky hand checking can get
>you in trouble as it is so easy for your opponent to roll the
>blade right into the forearm of your checking hand.  Better to
>control/destroy the attacking limb at the elbow or higher.

I'm pretty leary of any wrist control techniques against a knife.
It's way too slow and if it fails you are in deep shit.  The knife
wielder has two hands and his feet.  He may aalso be carrying
other hardware.  If you use both hands trying to do a wrist control
and can't settle the matter instantly, you may have thrown the fight.

>   -   Watch for the slash/stab combination.  It is the natural
>move from reverse grip, and very hard to defend against.  Better
>not to be there.

This is true regardless of how the knife is held.  Your good fighter
will not make a commited move until he can kill you with it.  First,
he'll whittle (sp?) your hands and arms into uselessnes.  Then, when 
you're softened up, he'll move in for the finish.  My biggest problem
with all the knife self defense training I've heard of, is that it
concentrates on defeating the finishing move but doesn't help
with making it that far in one piece.

>   -   Watch also for kicks and strikes with the alive 
>(non-weapon-bearing) hand.  People who make a habit of reverse 
>grip seem more likely to use the full range of available weapons.

Again, this is true no matter how the weapon is held, or even what
kind of weapon it is.  Don't fight the weapon, fight the opponent.
If you just concentrate on the knife you'll be easy to roll over.

>   -   You can't afford to let your attacker close.  Reverse grip
>gives him some very powerful slashing and stabbing options
>close-in.  Take a cut on an extremity if you have to, but don't
>let him close without paying a very high price.

On the other hand, you can't afford a fight at the range where he can 
nick you up till blood loss slows you down or your hands are useless.
You have to either flee or get in there and finish it quick.

>   -   If he is holding *two* knives in reverse grip, then one of
>two things.  Either he's just a Michael Echanis groupie with no 
>real skills, or you are in very deep shit ;-)

I'll buy that, even without knowing much about Mr. Echanis.

cheers,
gerard