HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:28:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Sep2.172825.8471
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <1992Aug31.184318.361@oracorp.com> daryl@oracorp.com (Daryl McCullough) writes:
>In article <1992Aug28.051513.17019@cheshire.oxy.edu>,
>rooney@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael Sean Rooney) writes:
>(in response to Clayton Cramer):
>
>>	Your appreciation of Chinua Achebe is very big-minded of
>>you, Clayton.  But pause for a moment to consider why it is that
>>non-European cultures haven't had impact on European or U.S. culture,
>>in spite of the world-wide presence of Europeans and Americans.
>>It wouldn't have anything to do with having the bigger guns, would
>>it?
>
>I don't think there is any kind of simple equation between military
>power ("bigger guns") and cultural influence. The Soviet Union for
>several decades had one of the most powerful militaries in history,
>yet their cultural influence on even their allies was minimal and
>fleeting.

	I assumed the "bigger guns" statement was not simply in
reference to military power, but inreference to the effects on
imperialism and colonialism on the culture of indegenous people.
Perhaps I was reading a bit much into the original post, but I would
see military power as relevant only inasmuch as it made colonialism
and imperialism posible. In that sense "bigger guns" have a lot to do
with cultural influence.




-- 
"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
			-Joseph Beam_
Terrance Heath 
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Why I read the Economist
In-reply-to: francis@oas.stanford.edu's message of Tue, 1 Sep 1992 19:32:02 GMT
Organization: pubs
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:47:15 CDT

Francis Muir writes:

   ... The function of the original TIME magazine has been long usurped
   by TV. We have no need of newsmagazines. ...

I think this overestimates TV and underestimates the quality of the
newsmagazines in their original incarnations.  Sure, they could be slick
or slanted, but they could also provide a good wrap-up of major
developments, from a (slightly!) longer perspective than that of a daily
paper.  For example, an ongoing story such as a peace conference or
international blow-up can be difficult to follow from daily accounts,
especially if you're busy that week, on vacation, or whatever.  I've
often caught up with such stories by reading a magazine account later.
But there's no really good source of such summaries now.  Take a look at
old Times from the 50s or 60s; you'll find you can get a sense of what
was happening at a given time.  Whatever misconceptions or biases they
show were undoubtedly true of other media of the time.  Time is now
trying to recast itself as some kind of feature magazine, which is much
less useful.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Family Relationships
Date: 25 Aug 92 23:30:53 GMT


bkt@blacks.jpl.nasa.gov (Barrie Trinkle) writes:

> mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:

>> As I wrote to Barrie, I suspect his sources.  General Novello speaks
                                 ^^^

>    Make that "her", please, Mark.

Oooops.

I am so sorrie (intentional mis-spelling).  I would have suspected
that the 'ie' ending applied to females if Francis hadn't started
referring to me as 'Markie.'

>    Is "U.S. Surgeon General" a military title?  I don't remember ever
> seeing Koop addressed as "General Koop".

Yes, it is.  Koop was a general, as is General Novello.  Actually!
Check that!  I believe that Koop may have been in the nave, and was
an Admiral.

>    I believe I read this brother-sister factoid in the L. A. Times,
> but my error bars are large.   I also remember reading therein
> that Antonia Novello is Cuban-born.

Is this a reputable paper?  We who are in New York wonder about L.A.

> ..nothing is so fatal to maidenly delicacy of speech as the run of
> a good library.
>                               Robertson Davies, _Tempest Tost_

Well -- I have to admire anyone who quotes Robertson Davies.


Marky
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:25:40 GMT



le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel) writes:

> mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes...

>> Since I have recently been very critical of Clayton Cramer about some
>> things where I felt he was wrong, I feel compelled to voice my agreement
>> with him about something where I feel that he is right.

> I guess you think we care, or we're keeping score, and that we now hold
> you in high regard for your altruism and fairness, hunh.  And I guess you
> also think that we need you as a reference point for what/who is right or
> not in the previous and future wankings between you and Cramer, hunh.

Yes.

By the way, will someone send Ron a score card.  It appears that he has
not received his copy.

This might be a good time to announce a change in r.a.b.  I appears that
we have become a moderated group.  In the future I will be sending all
subsequent articles to Ron Nadel, so that I can get his approval before
posting.

--------

Who is this "we" that Ron mentions?  Judging from the e-mail I have
received, it is clear that some people do care.  Ron should speak
for himself.  Just as I am not the moral center of r.a.b, neither
is he the one who sets the opinions for the rest of us.

> Spare us.

Ron should follow his own advice.

Mark

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Why I read the Economist
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 16:25:04 GMT

In article <10518@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> nall@sun8.scri.fsu.edu (John Nall)
writes:

>Oh, come on, now.  Both TIME and NEWSWEEK, as well as practically all of the
>daily newspapers, have changed their format/substance to try and "appeal to
>what the public wants".

I'm not sure how this is meant to be a response to what I wrote, John.
No one is disputing that these publications have changed their formats.
My posting, which you quoted, addressed the difference in quality between
the writing and reporting of two American newsweeklies. Your introductory
"Oh, come on now" suggests that you are trying to take issue with me, yet
your posting doesn't seem to address what I said at all.


--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact 
mnemonic@eff.org| of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, 
(617) 864-0665  | both are transformed."
EFF, Cambridge  |                           --Carl Jung 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Time for Burgess?
Date: 2 Sep 1992 10:53:43 GMT
Organization: A poorly-installed InterNetNews site
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


Yes, Read anything by Burgess. I've been reading him since '65.
I like his Vol I of his Autobio better.
-- 
Ted....
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: loosemore-sandra@CS.YALE.EDU (Sandra Loosemore)
Subject: Re: A Biog of Captain James Cook
Organization: staff hacker @ Yale Haskell project
        <1992Sep2.195258.14862@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu>
        <1992Sep2.201747.1295@ncar.ucar.edu>
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:53:30 GMT

 
chucks@uars2.acd.ucar.edu (Chuck Smythe) writes:
 
   Beaglehole has also edited the logs of the _Endeavour_.  Good reading.  
   _The Voyages of Captain James Cook in the Pacific_.  Available in paper,
   don't remember the publisher.
 
Beaglehole did indeed edit the journals, but they are definitely *not*
available in paper.  I believe the whole set runs to 6 volumes plus
another volume of charts, and will run you $600 or so.  (Yup, it's
been on my wish list for a while -- I've been hoping to run across a
used set somewhere.)  He also edited Sir Joseph Banks's journals from
the first voyage (another two volumes).  I found this in the library a
few years ago and it was fascinating.
 
There is a slim Dover edition containing a few excerpts from the journals.
Maybe this is what you had in mind?
 
-Sandra
From: wagner@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Unreliable narrator in "Pale Fire"
Date: 28 Aug 92 11:00:15 EDT

In article <25288@castle.ed.ac.uk>, egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
> I'm only about 6 months behind in catching up on this, but
> exactly *how* unreliable is the narrator. Is there *anything*
> he says that can be believed? He doesn't seem to have been
> a close friend of Shade's (not invited to the birthday party)
> and he probably told fibs about the assassination (lift in
> Emerald's car) - was he telling the truth about *anything*?
> 
> -- 

He is the fallen king of a vanished kingdom, which may never have 
existed.  He is a student of literature.
	  					-Luke		
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kwilling@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au (Ken Willing)
Subject: Re: Why I read the Economist
Organization: Macquarie University, Australia.
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 18:48:23 GMT

IMHO one of the best sources for what some posters on this thread seem to be
wanting (namely reasonably well-informed, balanced, not excessively
longwinded summaries of the news) is actually in another medium: namely --
believe it or not --:  radio.  E.g., the hour-long news features programs on
the World Service of the BBC (available loud and clear anywhere, for free,
on short wave radio).

This is not meant facetiously, and far be it from me to be wanting to start
a debate about TV & radio.  But personally I prefer to leave the job of the
provision of basic facts and ground-level interpretation to the [best of
the] electronic media; and then use paper'n'print for what it does best: 
i.e., communication that is more considered, slower, more personally direct,
more deliberately cross-textual, etc.  Hence the, if anything, increased
importance of what magazines like The Nation supply nowadays. 

But let's face it, rags like Time Magazine never did amount to a hill of
beans.  Thirty years ago, as today, if you happened to be a participant in
an event that Time subsequently reported, you could bet your bottom dollar
that that event would be garbled beyond recognition (plus, nine times out of
ten they would spell your name wrong). 

Ken Willing   <kwilling@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au>
Macquarie University, Sydney 2109, Australia
[displaced Yank]
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,rec.arts.sf.misc
From: IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU (macphil)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Organization: IUPUI
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:25:15 GMT

In article <1ZLaqB2w164w@opus.mcds.com>
speers@opus.mcds.com (Daniel E. Speers) writes:
 
>
>  Nevemind motivation...  If God created us, who created God?
>
>  Second Question:  If God can do anything, can (s)he create
>                    a rock that (s)he cannot lift?
 
The list of questions like this are endless: Can God imagine a being
greater than himself? Can God commit suicide?  As a philosophy professor
once said, "God is that of which none greater can be imagined."
 
And as I wrote in a paper for that class:  our ability to ask questions
like this is a sign of weakness of our understanding and greater
weakess in our language.
 
>Ignorance is bliss...
 
Let's not butcher Shakespeare:
 
"Ignorance is bliss, but to be wise is folly."
From: manes@bu-pub.bu.edu (Michelle Manes)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Bookstores in the Boston Area
Date: 26 Aug 92 14:37:07 GMT
Organization: Boston University

Why is it that despite so many bookstores in this area,
and despite so many netters in this area, we fail to have
a list of bookstores in the Boston area?

Should I hit the streets with a journal and make my own?
Or does one exist that didn't get posted with the recent
FAQ stuff?

michelle

-- 
Michelle Manes		|	"What should I be when I grow up?"
manes@bass.bu.edu	|	"Honest."
			|	-Robert M. Pirsig
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: spb0457@zeus.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Subject: Re: The Clockwork Test of Merit -or- Burning Burgess at both ends
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 07:57:00 GMT

(Alayne McGregor and Brett Delmage) writes...
>In article <26AUG199217290170@zeus.tamu.edu> spb0457@zeus.tamu.edu (SubGenius) writes:
>>So, it a typical fit of SubG wishywashyness (which I could have avioded by
>>buying a used copy of _Little Wilson and so on_ for $8.00, but I seldom
>>pay that much for a single book) I've decided to shove the autobiography 
>>towards the rear of my To Read pile, behind an unabridged _Life of Johnson_
>>I just got (single volume, making the book roughly cubic, $4.95), a copy
>>of Somerset Maugham's _Cakes and Ale_ that was mysteriously on the $1.98
>>table at the local university bookstore, ...
> 
>Read _Cakes and Ale_ first. Its wonderful acerbity will clear your palate.
> 
>Alayne McGregor

+-----------------------------------SubG-------------------------------------+
Well, sir or sirs, I certainly appreciate your interest, but your
recommendation comes too late;  I've plowed through two volumes since my
post and, as I am quite spiflicated and dawn is many hours away, I stand
a good chance of finishing yet another translation of _Gargantua and 
Pantagruel_ (I've gone through several translations of said work(s),
maintaining a private vow to read them only when pixilated which I've
thus far managed to keep with a furvour that might be misconstrued if
everybody didn't understand that I'm quite the teetotaler at heart.  Really
I am.  Some folks that I know, i.e. baldish aging poofs that happen to
read r.a.b., might be serious drinkers, but I really never touch the
stuff, maybe other folks whot owe me a Fosters or two, but not me, no way...)
tonight, so although I can promise to read _Cakes and Ale_ soon, I'm 
afraid that I cannot follow your advice to the letter.

Which is as it would be predicted:  Wise men don't need advise, and
fools never follow it.







Schnokeredly,
Yours etc.,




SubGenius
From: snow@netcom.com (Tim Szeliga)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Why I read the Economist
Date: 1 Sep 92 16:01:51 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Sep1.141452.14468@eff.org> mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
>In article <12054@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>
>>And even by the current definition of "conservative" in America,
>>they aren't conservative.  Note their oft-expressed feelings about
>>gun prohibitionism.
>

It is a sign of the intellectual corruption of the age that the honorable term
"conservatism" can be appropriated to disguise the advocacy of a powerful,
lawless, aggressive and violent, a welfare state for the rich dedicated to
a lunatic form of Keynesian economic intervention that enhances state and 
private power while mortgaging the country's future.
				Noam Chomsky,  1988

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tim Szeliga	 Org: National Weather Service / Hydrologic Remote Sensing
UUCP:	apple!netcomsv!frost!tim  Internet: tim@snow.nohrsc.nws.gov
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,rec.arts.sf.misc
From: charles@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Charles Jacob Cohen)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:04:55 GMT

>>>>>>>>>>>>>IF THIS DOESN'T STOP, IM GOING TO START THE WORST CASCADE EVER.
>>>>>>>>>>>>WHILE EATING THIS SLOP, I SEWED THE FIRST BROCADE BEAVER.
>>>>>>>>>>>BILE FITTING RIG STOP, LIE SPEWED THIRST LIVER !!!!
>>>>>>>>>>IF YOU MUST CONTRIBUTE, AT LEAST DELIVER...
>>>>>>>>>WHO MAY I ATTRIBUTE TO THIS BEASTLY SLIVER?
>>>>>>>>TO SPAY A LUTE IN A GREASY RIVER
>>>>>>>DAMN CASCADERS THINK YOU'RE SO CLEVER
>>>>>>I WILL NOT CASCADE; NOPE, NO, NEVER
>>>>>WOULD YOU, COULD YOU, ON A TRAIN?
>>>>WOULD YOU, COULD YOU, IN THE RAIN?
>>>R2-D2 ON THE BRAIN?
>>This cascade is damn insane!
>And it's really getting lame!
Can't we include just one name?



-- 
"I do not feel obliged to believe that same God who endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect, had intended for us to forgo their use." - Galileo
"I'm an engineer, not a dictionary!" - Me
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Subject: Re: Buckdancer's choice
Reply-To: djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:21:24 GMT

In article <BtvtMA.7DB@wsrcc.com> alison@wsrcc.com (Alison Chaiken) writes:
>	Anyone know what this phrase means?  It is both the title of a
>James Dickey poetry collection and is mentioned in the song "Uncle
>John's Cabin."

Well, someone else has already answered the question, but I had to point out
that it's "Uncle John's *BAND*," Alison.  Tom was the Uncle with the Cabin.
And Ben was the one with the Rice. . .


		The Pavlov dog and the Schroedinger cat
		Side by side in my forebrain sat
		With Shakespeare's monkeys crowding in behind. . .
		. . . it's all in your mind.
			-- Visual Purple

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, Net.Roach
My opinions do NOT represent Pacific Bell,
Professional Development, or anyone else.
But I'm willing to share.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Date: 30 Aug 92 15:27:40 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute

In article <1992Aug29.031003.18602@u.washington.edu> twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin) writes:
>In article <28AUG199208263920@portal.lasc.lockheed.com> le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025)) writes:
>>
>>Boy, Cramer is so lucky to have a friend like you.  
>>Yawn...
>
>rec.arts.books is lucky to attract people like Mark Taranto.  

I second that.  Mark is intelligent and open minded.


-- 
Barclay Elizabeth Blanchard    barclay@rail9000@gatech.edu
"I've been laughed at by some of the funniest people."
--Lissie, Alice Walker's _The Temple of My Familiar_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis)
Subject: Re: couple Ross Macdonald queries
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date:  4 Sep 92 16:39:39 GMT

(jmhodapp@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu) writes:


>Current authors who, (IMSWHO) , rank up there for grittiness are James
>Lee Burke, Estelman (who tries too hard), Ellroy, and Mosley.
>Speaking of Mosley, his first book, Devil in A Blue Dress is amazing,
>but his second is only fair.  Does anyone have any word on number 3?
>Any suggestions for other noir novels?  

   To my mind by far the best American crime novelist writing today whom
I've read is K. C. Constantine.  He writes police procedurals which are
not exactly noir -- they're not exactly anything.  Anyone especially who
comes out of a working-class ethnic-American heartland background will
be stunned by the shock of recognition his books produce.  I'm amazed he
hasn't received more attention.  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: gere@umunhum.stanford.edu (Susan Gere)
Subject: Re: rabfest
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: ba
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 18:49:09 GMT

Barclay Blanchard (shades of Tennessee Williams!) writes:
>Have y'all in California had your rabfest yet?  How was it?
>

Okay, time for a refresher:

The RABfest is scheduled for 6pm Saturday, Sept. 12.

It will be at my house; write for directions.

Respondez in any case if you haven't done so, that we may 
have the proper amounts of food, wine, and cheer. A small
donation will be requested (approx. $12.50 ea).

Note: due to the adult (?) nature of this gathering, which 
 will inevitably contain many references to R.A.B proper, 
 s.o.'s must attend at their own risk.

Please do bring a favorite passage to read aloud. Casual
attire; possibly pillows on the floor. Barbara Hlavin may 
of course come as Coco Channel, with tails.

++ Susan Gere +++ 415 723-1559 +++ Computer Systems Lab ++
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mls@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (mike.siemon)
Subject: Re: Why I read the Economist
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:04:56 GMT
Summary: demonization

In article <25378@castle.ed.ac.uk>, egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:

> I'm surprised to have seen no mention of the one US news magazine
> that is intelligent, informative, well-written, and entertaining.
> I refer, of course, to The Nation.

Sigh.  I *should* like _The Nation_; it far more closely matches my
own political viewpoint than most of the rest; certainly I am always
surprised when _The Economist_ takes a stance I agree with.

However, like the other American rags, _The Nation_ has the utterly
infuriating tendency to regard all positions but their own as too
vile and worthless to even consider -- the mere mouthings of idiots.
As a result, its articles are little more than smug self-congratulation
on how very good and smart *we* are as opposed to those awful others.
It is like _Forbes_ dressed in a different ideology.

_The Economist_ is often supercilious, sometimes even to the level of
_Time_, but it *will* on occasion *argue* for its positions granting
opposing views the respect of extended and competent statement (one
must put up with smug and condescending editorializing in places, but
it is not universal as it is in American newsmagazines, which seem
to have but one goal among them, defining for the readership what a
correct political attitude should be.  Since I have plenty of attitude
of my own, I don't find myself in need of what they are selling.)

And the writers for _The Economist_ *do* write exceptionally well
-- the cute word plays of the headlines seem to suffice, letting
the body text be clear and careful prose making its point without 
posturing.  (BTW: there is a good parody by Wolcott Gibbs of the
original incarnation of Timespeak; _Time_ has toned down a lot,
but has maintained its pristine disregard for reality.)
-- 
Michael L. Siemon		The Son of Man has come eating and drinking;
				and you say "Behold, a glutton and a drunkard,
mls@usl.com			a friend of tax collectors and sinners."  And
standard disclaimer		yet, Wisdom is justified by all her children.
From: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Date: 26 Aug 92 23:29:32 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

Thank heavens, the literary canon is still loose on deck!

Michael S. Rooney talks about the "disproportionately small numbers of
minorities in the traditional canon of so-called great literature." I wonder if
he'd complain about the "disproportionately small numbers" of Tahitians and
Norwegians in the traditional canon of Inuit sculpture," or the
disproportionately small number of Nigerians in the ranks of British Columbia
totem-pole carvers, or the virtual absence of Italian tenors in Mexican
mariachi bands.

The "so-called" great literature of the northwest Europeans is a cultural
expression which we should not expect to find duplicated among other cultures.
Every art has its history, and every work of art is a commentary on earlier
works in the genre. The literary canon of the northwest Europeans has inspired
respectable work in other cultures (from the Russians to the Japanese to a very
fine Inuit novel by Markoosie, "Harpoon of the Hunter"), but we should no more
expect every culture to find expression in prose fiction, any more than we
should expect the Welsh to be good transPacific navigators, or residents of
Cincinnatti to be brilliant makers of pinatas.