HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ARBOGASTW@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu (Warren Arbogast)
Subject: Re: NBA/NHL exhibition games?
Organization: Darden Center, University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 21:50:07 GMT

In article <43778@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> byonef@sage.cc.purdue.edu (E. Fred Byon) writes:

>There are quite a number of NBA and NHL teams that share the same arenas, so
>I think there is a good chance of fan support.  Of course, realistically 
>speaking, the NBA team would end up winning every time, but I would like to
>see the games set up so that it would be fun for everyone involved (i.e. 
>make it a "playground basketball" athmosphere; not really that competitive,
>similar to the charity game Magic Johnson has in LA every year).  

>I'd like to hear some predictions from you guys here on the net on these
>potential matchups:

>For each description give a prediction, margin of victory, game summary, 
etc....

>At Madison Square Garden:
>   RANGERS VS. KNICKS
Ewing would easily handle Messier, and since it's April, I'd bet a lot that 
Gartner will shoot wide almost EVERY time.  Knicks by 50.

>   ISLANDERS VS. KNICKS
The Islanders have been strong of late.  Of course they haven't been beating 
anybody particularly strong.  The Knicks again.  This time by 49.  (Does 
this mean that the Isles are BETTER than the Rangers? Not usually, but 
Gartner, in the playoffs, ANY playoffs, is fairly worthless.

>At Boston Garden:>   BRUINS VS. CELTICS
It's about time Ray Bourque picked up his game -- and here's his chance. 
Bird's been hurt, so the Bruins might do fairly well.  Celts by 35.

>At the Hartford Civic Center:>   WHALERS VS. CELTICS  (The Civic Center is 
the Celtic's "Home Away from home">                         BTW)
The Whalers are misserable.  Celts by 50.  Now the Celts and Nordiques in a 
pick-up hoops game might be a real thrill.

>At the Spectrum:
>   FLYERS VS. SIXERS
If Hextall doesn't wander too much, the Flyers might have a chance.  
Barkley  wanders too much, and that's why the Sixers are where they are.
(Of course, I know nothing about basketball (and some of you might say I 
know nothing about hockey,) but I'm desperate.)

>At the Meadowlands:>   
DEVILS VS. NETS
Scott Stevens playing hoops?  White Boys can't jump!  Nets by 55.

>At Chicago Stadium (can't forget this one!)
>   BLACKHAWKS VS. BULLS
Man, I'd hate to be in Keenan's locker room after this one.  Jordan by 1000. 
DA BULLS by 1001.

>At the Great Western Forum:
>   LA KINGS VS LAKERS
If Magic plays, it'll be another game where everybody gives him room and 
doesn't take him, just like watching Gretzky and a Kings game!
Lakers by 35.

>At the Los Angeles Sports Arena:>   LA KINGS VS CLIPPERS
Even I'm not THAT desparate.

You forgot the NHL's best chance...
At the Capital Centre:
WASHINGTON CAPITALS vs. Les Boulez
Bulley, bulley!  Pervis is nervous, and so is Hatcher.  And I bet Dale 
Hunter is a real SOB in the paint.  Caps by 20.

Hey, I'm a homer AND the Bullets really suck.
From: cadams@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Chris Adams)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 23:11:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Dear Sherri
Organization: HP Stanford Park - Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey

Sherri asks:

>How do you define "compete"?

This is getting really weak!  How do you define "How"?  

How about: "All teams should have equal opportunity to build a team
capable of winning the Stanley Cup."

>True.  But one team can only find room for so many players.  Would a player
>go to a winner who would pay him lots of money if he were scratched half
>the time?

I don't know why you don't get it Sherri.  I will try to make a simple
model for you.  Let's say one team can afford to pay salaries which are
twice as high as any other team.  Say this team carries only 18
players so that no one ever gets scratched (four forward lines, three
defensive pairs and two goalies).  Without a draft there is an extremely
high probability that this team would have 18 of the *very best* players
in the league.  It would not be hard to build such a team using only the
"no-brainer" draft picks".  Even if the 18 players are only 18 of the
top 36 or something the team would still have a lopsided advantage over
the other teams in the league.  

Just curious Sherri; do you have a favorite team?  LA Kings perhaps?

 _______________
/ |   | | |   | \  Chris Adams
| | O |.|.| O | |  (415)857-7864
|[|   | | |   |]|  cadams%hpspd%hplabs@hp.com
| | O |.|.| O | |
\_|___|_|_|___|_/  GO CANUCKS!!!

Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: aranta@milton.u.washington.edu (Aaron Ranta)
Subject: 1 game remaining... ?!
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:44:09 GMT

OK, if the games are picking up where they left off to finish the season, then
somewhere in there I missed one... So could anyone tell me what the results
were of the Canucks vs Calgary game that was to have been played on April 2?

Seattle is the worst town in the entire civilized world to live in if you're a
hockey fan from Canada... ( Bass fishing and the status of the Ling Cod 
fishery get more newspaper coverage )

If the game was played then I know the Canucks lost ( seeing as how they are
on this 4 game losing streak and all ) but I have no clue other than that.

   Much obliged.
From: jmd@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (joseph.m.dakes)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: FLYERS notes 4/1
Summary: CHANGE THE FRICKIN' SUBJECT TITLE!
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:21:15 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T


Isn't this just great!  Two clowns arguing about whether an apology
is in order, another one getting involved to tell one of the others
to give it a rest, and then some idiot quotes all 100 lines of that
article just to add, "thank you".

If you guys want to continue, go right ahead.  BUT CHANGE THE
FRICKIN' SUBJECT TITLE ALREADY.  It no longer has anything to do
with the Flyers.

Can you tell I'm upset about the strike?

                                         \ \
Joe Dakes                                 \/\
AT&T Microelectronics                      \/\
555 Union Boulevard                         \ \
Allentown, PA  18103                     LET'S GO FLYERS! 
alux5!jmd                                     \ \
                                               \ \__________
                                                \____/_//__/
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Big Bri)
Subject: Re: NCAA officiating
Organization: Clarkson University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 16:23:36 GMT

lsa@ll.mit.edu (lisa s anderson) writes:

>In article <1992Apr17.063024.19014@noao.edu>, alex@noao.edu (Alex Macdonald) writes:

>|> Hockey is a
>|>game, a tough game where you're held accountable for your actions by
>|>your fellow players. Do something cheap and prepare to pay, maybe not
>|>this period or this game but count on a measure of repayment. The
>|>players with guts and honor know who they are and they respect each
>|>other. In short, players have seen alot of hockey and know the game,
>|>what they need is someone to call offsides and icing, they can police
>|>themselves. 

>Let me get this straight.  So are you suggesting we don't need a ref at all,
>only linesmen (since they're the ones who call offsides and icing).  So if
>a player hooks or holds or trips another player, he shouldn't be called for
>a penalty because, since the players police themselves, he'll just be "taken 
>care of" later.  I wonder if you feel this way if a player on the team you 
>like is hooked down on a scoring opportunity (or anytime for that matter).

Not only does this imply that there shouldn't be refs, but it goes even
further. We don't need any rules at all other than offsides, icing, etc.

BRI
From: nhmas@gauss.med.harvard.edu (Mark Shneyder 432-4219)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Who will you be pulling for?
Date: 17 Apr 92 18:16:10 GMT
Organization: HMS

In article <sn47jINNbdf@seven-up.East.Sun.COM> ken@hooters.East.Sun.COM writes:
>If the B's get bounced I would like to see either Chicago or St. Louis!!!
Bruins are not gonna get bounced. 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: aq614@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert G. Guydosh)
Subject: Kings vs. Canucks
Reply-To: aq614@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert G. Guydosh)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 14:02:38 GMT


Who was in goal for Vancouver a couple nights ago vs. the Kings?
Was it Gamble or MacLean?

Bobby

-- 

"Scratch my back with a hacksaw."
 - Mike Lange, Penguins Announcer
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: migod@turing.toronto.edu (Mike Godfrey)
Subject: STRIKE IS OVER
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Date: 11 Apr 92 04:42:05 GMT


OK, I just watched the news conference live on CBC-Newsworld (and TSN)
and the strike is over, pending player ratification of the new deal (which
should be automatic).

There weren't a lot of details, however they have reached agreement on all
of the important details, and it seems that there are smaller details that
they'll work out later.

The deal is for two years, retroactive to last September and there is a
clause that guarantees no lockouts or strikes during that time.  The new
deal expires on Sept 15, 1993.

The big issues, mechandising and free agency, have been agreed upon and no
real amount of detail was given:  the agreements are rather detailed.

There will be no salary cap.  There will be extra games next year,
inlcuding possibly some in Europe.  There will be a moe active role for the
players in the running of league business -- they mentioned the need for a
better US cable deal as an example.

Some dollar figures are conditional on how the league fares financially
over the next year.

Look for games to start on Sunday, and the playoffs beginning next
weekend.

Time to lace up the skates again.  Face off at centre ice!!

-- 
Mike Godfrey   	           		"Either that wallpaper goes, or I do."
Dept of Comp Sci, UofT      	         	-- allegedly, the last words
migod@turing.toronto.edu			   of Oscar Wilde
From: seth@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (peter.r.clark..jr)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Kiss the playoffs goodbye
Date: 8 Apr 92 02:50:44 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T


For those who don't get clari-net, and haven't watched tonights newscasts,
you can forget the playoffs this year. The owners put up a deal that made
some concessions on the licensing issue and was retroactive to sept. and
could have been the three year deal the players wanted. But the players
reps. rejected it unanimously citing insufficient movement on licensing
(they want to retain full rights to their images, the owners offered
playing card rights and a partnership on other use of images) and a lack
of mention of the $7.5 million in pension funds.

The owners said that this was it. Agree by Thursday, practice Friday and
Saturday and play by Sunday or forget the season. The players reps voted
no.

Until a couple days ago I was completely with the players. Now, however,
my feeling is that they're asking too much too quickly. Whether the deal
is fair or not, it is not IMHO reasonable to expect the league to make
this big of a change this quickly. The players should accept a short term
deal that adresses most of the important issues and work out the rest
in the meantime. They've made their point by now. They can talk all they
want. This strike isn't about money any more. It can't be.

But then again, maybe I don't know enough to reasonably form an opinion.
After all, I'm not in the meeting rooms. I'm just a very disappointed fan
who misses the best part of the only real sport...:-(

pete clark jr. - r.s.h FLYERS contact, and currently an unhappy camper
att!hos1cad!seth
From: bks@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (bryan.k.strouse)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Examining the books (was Re: The upcoming STRIKE.)
Summary: attendance
Date: 7 Apr 92 19:37:20 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr7.185730.27689@cbnewsh.cb.att.com>, seth@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (peter.r.clark..jr) writes:
> > team is doing well...).  Even Philly started to draw fans after their
> > miserable start when they started winning.
> 
> The attendance at FLYERS games by quarter was over 171,000 for each
> of the 1st three quarters out of a possible max attendance of 173,800.
> The fans were there all season...this after the team missed the playoffs
> for 2 straight years.
> 
> Just setting the record straight...
> 

According two the number of this year attendance, the Flyers are one of the
teams that have declined compared to last year, although be it only by a few
thousand.


\|||||/
-SPIKE-
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: bks@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (bryan.k.strouse)
Subject: Re: DO YOU NEED THAT HOCKEY FIX?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 14:30:51 GMT
Summary: figure skating
	 SCA
Keywords: playoffs, strike, withdrawal, etc......n

In article <1992Apr3.210134.5528@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, davidw@vista.atmos.uiuc.edu (David Wojtowicz) writes:
> In article <1992Apr3.163653.16985@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> bks@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (bryan.k.strouse) writes:
> >
> >
> >Due to the NHL strike, I have come up with the idea to hold our own playoff
> >games in around the NHL cities by use of the SEGA GENESIS NHL HOCKEY GAME.
> >
> >Yes, for those who need that NHL fix, games could be held around NHL cities.
> >We could use the team contacts to represent each team and hold our own playoffs.
> >>
> >Oh what the hell...why don't you all come over to my house and we'll hold them
> >there.  I can even get in touch with a play by play announcer and a color man
> >to do the games......
> >
> 
> Do you suppose we should invite SCA?  They should be desperate by now.


Yeah.  I was getting tired of seeing championship figure skating the past week.

Now, we have to deal with college baseball every night on a tape delay....


\|||||/
-SPIKE-
From: ab870@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Rickin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Ziegler announces "New Proposal"
Date: 8 Apr 92 20:32:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr8.203209.23615
Reply-To: ab870@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Rickin)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, lyddy@ecs.umass.edu () says:

>I just heard this on CNN radio:
>
>NHL President John Ziegler announced today that the owners
>have put forward a "new proposal."  The players have until
>3PM Thursday to vote on this proposal.  If approved, the  
>regular season would resume on Sunday, followed by the 
>playoffs.
>
>Does anyone have info about the details of this proposal?
>
>-Dan Lyddy
>-UMass at Amherst
>

Ya know, most labor issues get settled when both sides sit down and talk
about the issue, and jointly come up with the answer, not firing salvos
back and forth.
-- 
ab870@cleveland.freenet.edu (Eric Rickin) or bu072@gnh-bauhaus.cts.com
Slap and Tickle... The Canadian National Sport
University of Michigan: Class of 1996
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: kwfrackl@lily09.uwaterloo.ca (SCOOP-meister)
Subject: AN ODE TO SHERRI
Originator: kwfrackl@lily09.waterloo.edu
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 05:33:50 GMT


AN ODE TO SHERRI

Sherri, oh Sherri, our Flame-able Honey,
You, like the players, are in it only for money.
Despite agreeing to total free agency,
You like the idea of high player salary.
You worship and praise that snot, Mr. Lindros,
You admire him for his worth, not his Net, but his Gross.
But why are you so blind, and can't see the truth,
Have you been guzzling cheap Italian vermouth?
This argument is growing long, and getting really blah,
Pretty soon you'll be like Eric and crying "WAAAAAAAAAH"
But don't you worry, despite you being smug,
We don't really hate you, so here's a big hug!


	H H  U U  GGG  !!
	H H  U U  G    !!
	HHH  U U  G G  !!
	H H  U U  G G  
	H H  UUU  GGG  !!

Signed, the SCOOP-meister (with the help of Fluffy the Wonder Bunny)

PS- Everyone please email Sherri a hug and tell her we still love her.

PPS- Let us know if/what you want more poems about.
From: ab870@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Rickin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Pens, Martha meet to discuss strike
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:02:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr9.200202.15479
Reply-To: ab870@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Rickin)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, lli+@cs.cmu.edu (Lori Iannamico) says:

>Said Martha, "I don't ever think you are ever really at a complete impasse in
>these things.  When you're in court, that's an impasse.  When the union 
>decertifies, that's an impasse.  But you're never really at a 100% impasse."
>
>Ownership is believed to be fretting about the possibility the union will
>attempt to de-certify.

WHat does a "union decertifying itself"mean?
-- 
ab870@cleveland.freenet.edu (Eric Rickin) or bu072@gnh-bauhaus.cts.com
Slap and Tickle... The Canadian National Sport
University of Michigan: Class of 1996
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: cs911030@ariel.yorku.ca (STAVROS TSOKOS)
Subject: Re: Kiss the playoffs goodbye
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 14:43:49 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.025044.11515@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> seth@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (peter.r.clark..jr) writes:
>
>Until a couple days ago I was completely with the players. Now, however,
>my feeling is that they're asking too much too quickly. Whether the deal
>is fair or not, it is not IMHO reasonable to expect the league to make
>this big of a change this quickly. The players should accept a short term
>deal that adresses most of the important issues and work out the rest
>in the meantime. They've made their point by now. They can talk all they
>want. This strike isn't about money any more. It can't be.
>
>But then again, maybe I don't know enough to reasonably form an opinion.
>After all, I'm not in the meeting rooms. I'm just a very disappointed fan
>who misses the best part of the only real sport...:-(
>
>pete clark jr. - r.s.h FLYERS contact, and currently an unhappy camper
>att!hos1cad!seth

Pete, I agree with everything you've said, my sentiments exactly -
except for one part - besides hockey, soccer is another ONLY real sport.
As far as these players' interest are concerned, I get the distinct
feeling that the owners are in a position where they must surrender
their ownership.  Everybody out there reading this, tell me this: You
own a restaurant, say for lack of a better idea McDonalds.  Ok, now you
have an employee - who performs his services well and becomes EMPLOYEE
of the month, and you get a nice framed photo plastered on the wall
where all the customers can see it.  This employee demands they get
full rights to the potential customers this photo brings the business.
What, all of a sudden, this employee becomes an owner?!  I thought this
guy was getting paid a salary - and if he didn't like it he should go
work elsewhere.
JUST A TASTEFUL ANALOGY.

                                    Steve

Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: chin@sask.usask.ca (Glenn Chin)
Subject: Another parity debate (was Re: Dear Sherri)
Organization: University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 21:14:39 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.222022.9749@adobe.com>, snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:

> However, if total free agency existed, then those bad teams wouldn't have to
> rely on the draft for new talent; instead, they could go out and get already-
> developed talent.  Much easier to project what a 24 year old who's already
> played in the NHL is going to do than what an 18 year old is going to do.

I don't disagree with the above statements.  However, there is only so much
established talent to go around.  A few teams signing some top players means
other teams have less to choose from.
 
> In article <1992Apr8.214022.3689@ists.ists.ca> dchhabra@stpl.UUCP (Deepak CHHABRA) writes:
>>You argue that free agency will work, and the counter-argument is that free
>>agency leads to an auction-type free-for-all.  Baseball already serves as a
>>precedent.   
> 
> As a precedent for what?  Increased parity?  That's exactly what exists in
> baseball right now.  

How about parity in the NBA over the past ten years (championships won by
big-market teams in Boston, L.A., Detroit, and Chicago)?  Also, one must be
careful when comparing parity among different sports.  How consistent (and
hence, predictable when signing big-name talent) are, say, baseball players
compared to basketball players?  From my personal observation, the performance
of baseball players appears to be less consistent than their colleagues in
basketball and hockey.

Furthermore, in basketball and hockey, star players can log extra time,
whereas star hitters in baseball come up no more than once every nine slots. 
Star pitchers are also not available every game.

If you compare the seasonal results in MLB with those in Cuba or Japan, there
would be more merit to your claim.


Glenn
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: shayne@cs.mcgill.ca (Lydia MANCINI)
Subject: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs
Organization: SOCS, McGill University, Montreal, Canada
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 17:45:23 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.005453.21265@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ash@sumex-aim.stanford.edu (David Ash) writes:

>No, but almost every baseball fan in Ontario supports the Blue Jays.  A big
>part of the reason they do is that the Jays are winners, while the Leafs are
>losers.  So Ontario fans support other NHL teams, but with less enthusiasm
>than they'd support the Leafs if they were contenders.  

I guess you guys really are starved for a winner. 

>When I watched Hockey Night in Canada this past Christmas when I was home,
>I was promised the Leafs in "Southern Ontario".  Evidently Belleville wasn't
>considered "S. Ontario", so I was treated to the Flames instead.  I don't
>know if this was typical, but when the closest NHL team is shunned by
>television, how are people supposed to stay/get interested in the product?
>I've had better luck catching the Sharks on TV out here.

The Leafs aren't the only team that they've screwed over.     
HNIC's broadcasting basically sucks. 
They have a monopoly, so I don't think things will get any better.

>Well, imagine if CA and NY together had just a single baseball team, and
>that team was forever finishing 6th or 7th in its division.  Don't you think
>that would hurt baseball?  Well, that's essentially the situation we have in
>hockey.  Maybe the Senators can turn things around.

Things don't seem to be that bad down there, the arena's always packed.
(At least when I've watched their games).

>I can blame Leafs management for this, but I can also blame HNIC for not
>televising the Leafs, and the NHL for not putting any more teams in Ontario
>until now.

Well, the main of the NHL is the US. Don't hold your breath for another team.

>David W. Ash

-- Lydia
-- 
  Lydia Mancini | shayne@cs.mcgill.ca | McGill University | Montreal, Canada
 (==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)
 "I don't want to be coach of the year, just coach for the year" -- Pat Burns
 (I always liked that comment)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey