From: jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell)
Subject: Re: Warp Detection 
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 23:13:28 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <714989004snx@keris.demon.co.uk> chris@keris.demon.co.uk (Chris Croughton) writes:
>In article <1992Aug27.195310.27368@u.washington.edu> mcclaine@milton.u.washington.edu writes:
>>        1.  Yes, you can detect a vessel approaching at warp speed with
>>        subspace sensors, since these sensors travel at the TNG speed of
>>        almost Warp 10 and can give sufficiently speedy bounce-back.
>         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>This illustrates the silly idea of having Warp 10 be infinite!  In TOS
>you could say that the maximum speed for any known spaceship was (say)
>Warp 15, and subspace sensors used Warp 30, but theoretically some more
>advanced race could use more so you couldn't detect them in time.

Well, sure... but at least for TNG Sternback, Okuda & crew have
bothered to sit down and create a semi-reasonable explanation for
warp fields, and the warp 10 maximum makes sense (if you're
overtired, drunk, or generally out to lunch, it helps too).

>In the TNG system it come out as:
>
>The maximum speed for any known spaceship is (say) Warp 9.99, and
>subspace sensors use Warp 9.9999, but theoretically some more advanced
>race could use more so you couldn't detect them in time.

The sensors detect propogations of subspace energy fields, one
would assume - these propagate at the 'speed of light', or
maximum speed for subspace waves. This is equivalent to Warp
Factor 9.9997 under ideal conditions (ie, as flat as spacetime
gets within the milky way). This is about 60 times faster than
the fastest known starship (this is from the Tech Manual).

>The figures for TNG get silly - what's the difference between 9.9999 and
>9.99999 (and did I just add a digit by accident?).
>
>Wesley: "Captain, did you say you wanted Warp 9.9999999 or Warp
>        9.99999999?"
>
>Geordi: "Captain, the engines will only last for 1 second at Warp
>        9.99999999, but if we reduce it to Warp 9.99999998..."

I imagine that when the Federation breaks the 'Subspace
Barrier' and manages speeds faster than 9.9997 (without help from
Q, etc...) they can either describe the new warp generation
scheme using a totally different set of parameters, or use
something akin to scientific notation (eg, 'Warp Factor E-8' or
'Warp Factor 2E-8')

>>        2.  If you can detect the vessel, there is no reason why you cannot
>>        determine the velocity of the vessel with continuous sensor scans.
>
>As long as it's not too fast - you have to have a period <delta>t to do
>the sample, but that if your scans are too infrequent you may find that
>it's arrived before your next scan.

I imagine velocity can be detected using something akin to the
way radar guns work - Dopler modification of the signal pulse. If
its an active scan, thats easy. If not, you can probably detect
the approaching wave-front of the continuum distortion as mere
ripples in spacetime (travelling Warp 9.9997 or so) and get some
info from those.

>>        3.  You would have a difficult time viewing the vessel on the
>>        viewscreen until it got reasonably close, however, I believe that
>>        the computers can make a silhouette comparison and identify what
>>        type of ship it is.
>
>I've never understood how they get such good resolution on very long
>distances anyway...

Possibly the subspace distortions can be focused into something
akin to a picture of the approaching ship. I agree, tho, thats a
REAL blooper unless they use active scanning to get a good image
of the approaching ship...

Mind you, if you 'fake' the returning signal (ie, they send a
scan out in some direction where there's nothing there, and you
somehow feed back to them a fake bounce) they'll see something
there rather like Worf's scheme for saving the ship in a few
episodes.

Joshua
+      "Each woman is a promise that she can't keep that appeals to           +
|  a hope you can't control." - joe theseus, Deadface: Earth Water Air Fire   |
|                                                                             |
+ jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca   Academic Computing Services, University of Calgary +
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.tech