From: anne@cs.UAlberta.CA (Anne J.R. Nield)
Subject: Re: Vegan dilemma concerning pancreatic enzymes.
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:49:28 GMT

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:


>>Are these the same health care professionals that brought us
>>silicone implants for breasts, thalidomide, breast removal to
>>prevent cancer, and other such goodies?  Not to mention the
>>"normal" (scientifically validated) 15% of iatragenic, i.e.,
>>physician-caused illnesses?

>Um, what does this have to do with colon cleansing?

It has to do with the fact that the medical experts who often ridicule
alternative forms of health care are capable of coming up with some
truly dangerous and mind-boggling "treatments" -- all of which of course
have been scientifically validated by SOMEBODY.  (Actually I forgot
one of my personal favorites -- stomach stapling for weight loss.  I
worked for a stomach stapler once and had long discussions with some
of the nurses caring for the patients.  They had some major 
horror stories.)  The medical establishment happily warns about
the "dangers" or "ineffectiveness" of natural therapies -- and yet continues
to subject people to dangerous procedures because the "scientific" evidence
doesn't indicate that they are harmful -- yet.
 
>>Not to mention the ones who can't
>>quite seem to figure out what's happening with the AIDS virus --
>>despite all those wonderful studies PROVING what now no longer
>>appears to be the case.

>Huh?  Whatever are you talking about?

In case you haven't been keeping up with the debate on AIDS lately, there
has been considerable disagreement among the "scientists" as to whether
HIV is a cause, or the ONLY cause of AIDS.  The man who discovered the
virus now feels it is NOT the only cause.  The people who read all his
papers and believed them choose to continue believing them even when HE
has changed his mind.  Then there's the little matter of AIDS-like
illnesses suddenly showing up in the absence of the HIV virus.  I.e.,
many of those "scientific papers" are now highly questionable -- which
is often what happens.  While the scientists argue and debate, I prefer
to take care of myself through whatever methods work for me based on
information, expert advice, and personal experience.

>>Naturopaths and other alternative
>>practitioners were advocating high-fibre, low-fat diets to
>>prevent cancer (for example) years ago.  Now, all  of a sudden
>>the American Cancer Society has caught on and it's "scientific".

>What does this have to do with colon cleansing?

>It has to do with the fact that the same people have recommended colon
cleansing.  Since many of their other recommendations have now been
validated "scientifically", it would seem reasonable to assume they
might have a few other ideas that are worth considering.

>No, actually we'd prefer to wait until we get cancer, heart
>>disease, and various degenerative diseases, so that we can
>>provide more guinea pigs for the medical/pharmaceutical
>>industry.  Makes a lot more sense. 

>What does this have to do with colon cleansing?

I think your keyboard is stuck.  Colon cleansing is recommended as one
effective way to help prevent many of the degenerative diseases that
come with aging, accumulating toxins in the body, etc.  You don't
believe it; I do.  No problem; you don't have to do it.
>


The adjective is "iatrogenic", BTW.

Whoops!

>>I'll put my health and my money in the hands of people who have
>>proven they can help me, who have a positive track record and who,
>>unlike many in the scientific establishment, understand the dictum
>>"First, do no harm".

>You're lucky you don't have any serious diseases.  Naturopathy
>and its ilk is great for every day problems which disappear
>on their own anyway.

Sorry -- but this is an old argument.  The naturopath that I went
to treated many, many people who had been diagnosed with "untreatable"
illness such as terminal cancer.  They often didn't resort to 
"alternative therapy" until they had been told nothing more could be
done for them and they had, say 6 months to live.  When they not
only survived, but thrived after following his (very individualized)
programs, the inevitable medical response was "Wrong diagnosis" --
not exactly a tribute to the skills of the medical profession in
itself.  And this even when there were x-rays indicating, for example,
that tumors previously x-rayed had disappeared.  I knew this man for
over 20 years -- and became friends with many of his patients.  Most
found going to him a life-changing experience -- and they have never
looked back.  

So -- if it's wrong diagnosis, then I think these doctors are
dangerous.  If it's the "placebo effect", why in hell isn't more
research money going into THAT?  Not too many doctors (with the 
possible exception of people like Bernie Siegel and Deepak Chopra)
are willing to concede the part the mind plays in healing -- but
when another form of therapy succeeds, all of a sudden it's
the "placebo effect".  You can't have it both ways.

And, just for the record, I have been treated by a naturopath for
serious illness.  My health has improved enormously over the years,
and I no longer need that kind of intervention -- but I also do all
the "maintenance" stuff I consider helpful.  One of these things is
occasional cleansing programs.  I'm not a fanatic about them, and
I have never recommended them to anyone on the net -- I don't think
it's my business to do so, unless they ask.  But I really object
to misinformation being spread around as "scientific".  


I really don't want to discuss this any further -- and irritate
the hell out of all those people looking for recipes (:)).  I have a
neat recipe I just discovered -- that I'll post next week to make
up for all this.  

Anne

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg