HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tmi@netcom.com (Peter Alan Kasler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock doesn't *need* a safety (Re: .40 S&W Help Sought)
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:20:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Oct9.004740.3405
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In <13400047@iftccu.boeing.com> bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler) writes:


#/ iftccu:rec.guns / hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) / 12:40 pm  Oct  6, 1992 /

##BTW, how do you practice jam recovery if your gun never jams?  I know most
##1911's give their owners lots of practice (-:{, but my SIG hasn't given me
##any.

#Well, if your gun will feed empties like my 1911 :-) you can simply add 
#an empty or two to a magazine.  One gives a good tap-rack-bang drill.  
#Two in a row can simulate a stove pipe or similar failures.  

#Good marks to shoot for, (according to Farnum's standards) are 3 seconds 
#from 'bang' to 'bang' for the 'tap rack bang' and 10 seconds for the 
#full clearing procedure. (tap rack click, lock, strip, work, tap
#rack bang)

	Properly trained shooters using Glock pistols are not burdened
with having to do the "tap rack click, lock, strip, work, tap, rack,
bang" procedure that Farnum (correctly) set a 10 second par time for.
Double-feed clearing (generally the most complex, time-consuming
failure that occurs with pistols) on a Glock pistol is accomplished
merely by adding a single step to tap-rack-bang: strip the magazine ot
of the magazine well only as far as necessary to allow a loose round
to fall out (about half-an-inch). The drill then is:
strip-tap-rack-bang. Works like a charm every time, and only requires
about 3-4 seconds to accomplish.

-- 
     Peter Alan Kasler                            Fax: 707-939-8684
     Threat Management Institute                Voice: 707-939-0303
     800 West Napa Street                     TMI BBS: 707-935-1713
     Sonoma, CA  95476                     Internet: tmi@netcom.com
From: amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Reloading advice needed
Date: 9 Oct 92 23:39:30 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1992Oct8.195845.2690@ee.gatech.edu> mailrus!gatech!fisher.eedsp.gatech.edu!tucker@uunet.UU.NET (Jeff Tucker) writes:
#I had some questions about reloading, and thought I'd turn to the
#net for advice.
#
#Right now, I shoot only one caliber, 40 S&W, and that isn't likely
#to change very soon.  I'm interested in the economic aspects of
#reloading small quantities for my own use.
#
#How long does it take to offset the initial costs of reloading 
#equipment?  I'm talking about minimalist stuff, probably adequate
#for 100-200 rounds a month, max.  I'm not a real big shooter right
#now.  (But, if it weren't so expensive I might get that way.)
#
#I'd be interested in hearing what the startup costs are for equipment
#like a press and measures or whatever, and also the recurring costs
#for things like primers and powder.  I'm interested only in short range
#target work and nothing competitive right now, so I don't need the
#most expensive of anything.  Just the plinker stuff.

I'm sure you'll get many responses, but as (perhaps) this groups
newest avid reloader I thought I'd post instead of mail.  Especially I
like to thank Henry for his excellant write up about how to relaod,
trials and tribulations.  I imagine he'll send you a copy.

I found myself in much a similar situation about 7 months ago.  I had
5 different calibers and not enough money to buy ammo to feed them.
So, I sold my 9mm and bought a Lee Challenger single-stage press, a
set of dies in .45, a couple of boxes of primers, a box of 500 lead
round nose bullets, and a 1lb can of Bullseye powder.  Total cost was
under $100.  I had already had .45 cases.  

After reading all the email, and a couple of books on reloading I set
up my press and cranked out my first 50 rounds.  What a feeling when
they all went bang, and seemed to be pretty accurate!  By now I've
reloaded almost 1500 rounds in .45, .357, and 9mm, and I'm thinking
about starting in .30-30.  I added a Lee Autodisk powder measure, and
an autoprimer (total was about another $50, but the labor savings was
well worth it).

1500 rounds of the assortment I shoot would be about $350.  I've spent
just over $250 in all the equipment and supplies.  An important
difference is that now I have all the equipment, and a good stock of
supplies.  Even when I don't have money to buy ammo, I can reload
about as much as I can shoot.

A box of Winchester USA in 9mm costs me ~$10. To reload 50 9mm cost
about $2.  Even if you don't plan on doing a lot of reloading it is very
cost-effective.

-- 
Anmar Mirza   # Mayor of Dogspit, IN  #My Opinions! NotIU's! #Purveyor of
EMT-D         # Located somewhere in  # Legalize Explosives! #nontraditional
N9ISY (tech)  # the Outback of the    #I've got my own fusion#family values
Networks Tech.# Mirza Ranch.C'mon over#plant. Just ask me.   #Space For Rent
From: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: HBAR
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:04:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: cherokee.199210141819.AA05821
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

I finally found a cop who is going to teach me how to shoot
a rifle. I am thinking to get a Colt HBAR. But I'd like to know
what are the differences between HBAR, Competition HBAR, and
Delta HBAR. BTW, the main purpose of this HBAR will be target 
shooting. Although my cop teacher told me a HBAR is a good
self-defense rifle too, I really really really doubt I will ever
use it for that purpose.

Thanks yall!

David
-- 
 K. David Lin, Ph.D.            | E-mail: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com
 Science & Technology Division  | KD6EYN, beer drinker, target shooter
 U S WEST Advanced Technologies | Disclaimer: Only personal opinions.
From: kknox@logdis1.hq.aflc.af.mil (Kevin P. Knox)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: .303 Brit Loads Wanted.
Date: 13 Oct 92 03:20:57 GMT

I  have  an  Enfield #4 Mk I rifle.  It was actually  manufactured  by
Savage in the US for lend/lease to the British.  I don't think it ever
left  the country.  It is in very good/excellent condition.  Thanks to
a  bunch of you all, I have learned that this gun is strong enough  to
actually  be  converted to fire the .308 Win.  Can some kind soul  out
there  share  some reloading data for the .303 British other than  the
wimpy  ones  that  I have in my Speer #10 manual?  The loads  in  this
manual  were worked up for the older Enfield.  Since the older  rifles
weren't  as strong, the loads shown are really disapointing.  Anything
anybody has will be appreciated greatly.  Thanks in advance. --- Kev


Kevin Knox  (KKNOX@LOGDIS1.HQ.AFLC.AF.MIL)

"My Opinions Are My Own And Should Probably Stay That Way!"
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock trigger pull
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:41:55 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1992Oct6.025918.27915@netcom.com> messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk) writes:
##I think the trigger pull is a significant safety problem. As such, it 
##isn't a "great" police/self-defence carry gun.

#In what respect?  I am not sure I see what you mean... 
#The way I see it (and feel when I shoot it :) it is a consistent
#trigger pull, same from first through each following shot (just
#like DAO), it is a little shorter than most DAOs I've seen which
#is GOOD in my book, and it is also easily adjustable to the weight
#you feel comfortable with, 5 lb, 8lb, 11lb.

My point was that the trigger is _alot_ shorter than a double action 
(only a little longer than as single action.) I see this as a
significant disadvantage in a non-military carry gun (I'm thinking
of the 5lb pull here.) The lighter and shorter pull make them a
bit different from a revolver.

I should say, however, that I _do_not_ mean the Glock is a bad
carry gun. I see it as lacking in one respect, and so I wouldn't
say it's _great_ for that purpose. It's other advantages are enough
in my mind, to consider it a "pretty good" carry gun.

                                           Frank Crary
                                           CU Boulder
From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Browning HP safeties etc.
Date: 9 Oct 92 23:39:25 GMT
Organization: The Instrumentality

In article <1992Oct9.123049.27529@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula) writes:

... discussion of Browning HP...

#Also, the new Browning High Power Mk III has an ambidextrous
#safety as well (at least the early Belgian models do -- pre
#Portugese assembly). 

My Portugal-assembled HP has the ambidextrous safety also. 

# Most of the old safety design High Powers
#I have experienced have a very stiff (in addition to small)
#manual safety.

Yeah--the original safety almost seems to be intended to _discourage_
use--perhaps FN intended the gun to be carried in condition 3.
...

#Agreement here too. I would definitely spend the extra 
#bucks to get the enhancements which come standard on the Mk III.
#I would also change the grips to Pachenmeyers (sp?).

Well, that's a matter of taste (and the characteristics of your hand). When
I looked at the new style plastic grip with the ambidextrous thumbrests, I
thought "there's no way this can be comfortable". I changed my mind when I
held it--this grip is perfect for my hand. I think it's a bit fatter than
the original flat grips--this may be a consideration for people with hands
even smaller than mine. 

#I've also had a *lot* of problems with original *Belgian* magazines.  The
#Mk III Belgian came with a magazine which had "made in Italy" stamped upon
#it. This Italian magazine seems to work well in any High Power in which
#I've tested it.  One of my friends has related similar experiences.

Yeah--my Portuguese HP also has the italian mags.

#Personally, I am somewhat of a High Power (and to a lesser extent
#FN in general) fanatic. I find their High Power Mk III to be their
#best combat pistol offering yet and would highly recommend it.

I join you in a chorus of mutual agreement, and prostrate myself in the
general direction of Belgium.
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             |      Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist.     |
Peter Cash   |       (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein)      |cash@convex.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: skimmel@amex-trs.com (Steve Kimmel)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock adoption
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:04:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: rsv08.9210141911.AA107682
Organization: Amex/TRS

# jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis) writes:
#
#      Has the Glock been adopted by any large organization, police-force or
# military?
#                                                              Thanks.
#
The Phoenix PD has been supplying their officers with Glock 17's (I don't
know if PHX is picking up the tab but recent news stories indicate the
program is being speeded up and extra money will be allocated because of a   
spate of altercations with high-capacity toting cranky boyfriends & ex-hubbys
who have been avenging themselves (slaughtering?) on the co-workers of
their wives/girlfriends and other non-involved city employees, but I digress.)  
An article appeared in the 8/13 paper indicating that officers were being 
warned to carry one fewer round in their handguns to prevent them from 
jamming.  Apparently the practice had been to insert a full magazine, chamber
a round, remove the magazine and add another round to it, and then
re-insert the mag.  "The new order is the result of Police Dept.
tests prompted when a Glock Caried by Officer Tommy Abril jammed during a June
""Loading and carrying the Glock semiautomatic-pistol magazine to full capacity
weakens the magazine spring" and could keep the gun from properly feeding
rounds into the chamber." 
 This is the second order.  The first order was issued in July and told 
officers to "regularly examine and clean all parts of their guns, including
the magazine."
From: bluemoon!jbt@gator.rn.com (John Blase Tipshus)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Ruger P-85 grips sought
Date: 12 Oct 92 13:15:28 GMT
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])

I am looking for some unique grips for my Ruger P-85 9mm.  Something 
that stands out, but is also functional.  Any suggestions?  Also, what is 
a good price for additional clips?  I can buy one for $16.95 and it is a 
Ruger item.  Is that a good price?  

<obviously new to this group>,

     John

John Blase Tipshus                       _/   _/        _/       _/   _/
Worthington, Ohio USA                   _/_/ _/        _/       _/ _/_/
                                       _/ _/_/ INE    _/ NCH   _/_/ _/ AILS
Net:  jbt@bluemoon.use.com            _/   _/        _/       _/   _/
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm: Which *not* to buy?
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:20:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Oct8.232702.10019
Organization: Western Washington University

cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) writes:

#I have no experience with the Argentine clones--people have told me they're
#OK. But I _know_ the Portuguese Browning is superb, and I wouldn't trade
#it for anything else. (The matte black finish seems to be virtually
#indestructible, by the way.) 

I was under the impression that there are three finishes on the
hi-powers these days:

polished blue,
parkerized, 
& paint.

Why do they offer that...
Why would anyone want a _paint_ finish on a browning (or a CZ, or any
gun for that matter)???
From: Nigel.Allen@lambada.oit.unc.edu (Nigel Allen)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Virginia State Police to End Smith & Wesson Gun Replacement Program
Date: 7 Oct 92 12:59:58 GMT
Organization: NDA

Here is a press release from the Virginia State Police.

 Virginia State Police to End Smith & Wesson Gun Replacement Program
 Contact: Virginia State Police,
          Richmond Information Office, 804-674-2016, or
          Fairfax Information Office, 703-323-4515

   RlCHMOND, Oct. 6   -- Col. Carl R. Baker, Virginia State 
Police Superintendent, today announced that the department
intends to terminate its program with Smith & Wesson to replace its
original 10mm semi-automatic pistols with current production models.
   "It is critical that law enforcement officers have safe and
reliable weapons," said Baker, "and due to continuing problems with
the Smith & Wesson 10mm, we have decided to take appropriate action
to terminate our agreement with Smith & Wesson and provide our
officers with a different service weapon."  He added that the
currently issued 10mm pistols have been recently modified by Smith &
Wesson and will be retained until replacement weapons can be
purchased.
   Baker also announced that State Police will soon request bids for
replacement weapons and that the department will test all weapons
submitted by companies seeking the contract prior to making its
selection.
   State Police bought the Smith & Wesson 10mm semiautomatic pistols
in the spring of 1990 to replace its .38 revolvers.  However, because
of firing inconsistencies that developed during this spring's
firearms training and the number of weapons returned to Smith &
Wesson over the past two years, the manufacturer agreed to replace
all the original weapons with a later production model and to provide
additional familiarization training for employees.
   Recent testing of the replacement weapons revealed continuing
malfunctions.  The department has surveyed all of the replacement
weapons from Smith & Wesson and found malfunctioning decocking levers
on approximately 30 percent of the weapons.  In addition to this
problem, some of the replacement weapons experienced other
malfunctions.
 -30-

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: hudson@ualr.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Glock firing pin???
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:41:47 GMT
Organization: University of Arkansas at Little Rock



Recently, "Chris" had sent E-Mail to me about a problem with a Glock
firing pin.  I have lost your E-Mail address, could you please reply to
this posting, Chris.

Sorry to use the bandwidth.
Keith

hudson%eivax@ualr.edu
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: How much for mint Uzi?
Date: 13 Oct 92 13:19:05 GMT

If he's asking $1300 for an Uzi pistol, he's way too high.  The Uzi
pistol was not banned and is still being imported.  Current dealer
price on a new Uzi pistol is $475.

Only the Uzi carbines were banned (er, I guess the official term
is 'suspended')...

Rob
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Low brass (was 12 guage recoil: how to limit?)
Date: 15 Oct 92 12:16:11 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:

#finally ammo choice. For the least recoil, get a heavy gun with a good 
#stock fit and recoil pad, and shoot "low brass", "dove&quail", or "skeet" 
#loads. With these steps, even a small child can handle a 12 gauge.

	Alright, "low brass" means the brass butt of the shell is only
about 1/4" an inch long or a bit less, and in high brass it's 3/4" up
the side of the shell (these are guesstimates).  What's the reason?

	I'd been told to use high brass whenever possible, but I've
found that low brass chambers more easily and consistently in my
Remington Model 48 autoloader (Browning action, not gas-operated).
If I only shoot a few shots, the high brass works fine, but after
twenty or so I'll get a jam where the bolt won't slide forward all the
way and the bolt lock safety won't allow the shot.  Shooting low
brass for one hundred rounds doesn't show this sort of problem.
I know it's just grit keeping the high brass from being shoved
fully into the breech, but is there a safety concern with low brass
that I should be aware of?  I use it exclusively now for this reason.
I should also mention that none of my loads are at all "hot," and
are generally loaded to factory specs.

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"I see angels on Ariels in leather and>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | chrome, Swooping down from heaven to >
<viking@iastate.edu      | carry me home."   ---    R. Thompson >
<ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee.>
From: biocca@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (Alan K Biocca)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Can airgun scope be used on centerfire rifle?
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:58:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: dog.26817
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California

In article <1992Oct14.160200.26034@ke4zv.uucp> ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:
#In article <9210122323.AA15751@elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov> minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov (Minh Lang) writes:
##I know that a centerfire rifle scope cannot be used
##on an air gun due to the dual-phase recoil of a
##piston-operated air gun.  I'm wondering now if

#Frankly, I find this hard to believe. I've got a Leupold 1.5x5 on a
#Crossman piston-operated airgun and it's survived thousands of shots.

The manufacturer's specifications for airgun scopes include recoil in both
directions, as well as peak impulses that are higher than for powderburners.
I've known folks who have destroyed normal rifle scopes on pellet guns, so
it can happen.  It depends on the particular rifle's recoil characteristics
and the scope's internal configuration.

There should be no problem going the other way - airgun scopes should have no
problems with powderburner recoil.

Alan K Biocca
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Carrying around country
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:20:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: optilink.12692
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <RTARAZ.92Oct7110857@bigwpi.WPI.EDU>, rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz) writes:
# I was thinking of taking a trip accross country on my motorcycle this
# summer and would feel much better if I had my Taurus PT92 with me.
# I have a Connecticut carry permit.  Can I get a temporary national
# (federal) permit?  If not, how can I carry it without getting into trouble?

There is no such thing as a national permit.  We wish there was!

Was a permit from Connecticut hard to get?

-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Lesson learned from Gov. Wilson's signing of AB 2601: if you don't get 
your way, have a riot.  Next time, Gov. Wilson will cower appropriately.
From: chrisb@wang.com (Chris Bennet)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Penetrating ability of 38 Sp and 9mm
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:21:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: elf.9210090938.aa06805
Organization: Wang Labs, Lowell MA, USA

gaucher%beryllium.cchem.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU writes:

#I'd like to know what the penetration ability
#of standard 38 Special and 9mm FMJ target loads 
#would be in terms of various target materials:

#              phone books
#              newspaper
#              wood

#I suppose we could assume a muzzle velocity of
#approximately 1100 fps. Any information which
#someone could furnish pertaining to sound levels
#of such ammunition would also be helpful.
#Please reply by e-mail. Thank you.

#Lee Gaucher
#gaucher@beryllium.cchem.berkeley.edu


Sounds like someone is thinking of shooting in their basement.
A noble idea.  I considered it too.  Knowing what we know about
lead poisoning [from shooting without proper ventilation] kind of
throws a wrench in the works.  And it was such a great excuse for
a silenced .22 ... :^(

 Chris
From: watt-alan@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: States Granting Nonresident CCWs?
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:42:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Oct8.132344.17802
Organization: Yale University, Computing & Information Systems


In article <9210071400.AA11243@flubber.cs.UMD.EDU>, wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf) writes:
|> 
|> BTW, Indiana does not have a specific non-resident license. It works 
|> like this. Indiana honors licenses from other states. Also, anyone
|> who owns or leases property in the state can get a license even if 
|> they are not residents and don't have a license from they're home state.
|> Confusing, huh?

As with any patch-work legal system, there are some interesting "holes".
Michigan, like Indiana, honors permits issued in other states, but allows
local variations in issuing permits to residents.  Detroit residents,
for example, can pretty much forget about getting a Michigan permit.
New Hampshire on the other hand, issues permits to non-residents, even
if they don't have a permit in their own state.  Thus, Detroit residents
can get a New Hampshire permit, which is valid in Michigan!  It sounds
like a Michigan resident could lease property in Indiana and accomplish
the same result.

Massachusetts, which has a very restrictive permit system, has an
exception clause for law enforcement officers.  I don't know exactly
how it's worded, but it *does not* specify that said officer need have
any jurisdiction in the state of Massachussetts.  Any law enforcement
officer in the Galaxy can carry a concealed firearm in MA.

Both examples are related by Massad Ayoob, who must be pretty good
at finding holes, because he managed to get a permit from Her Majesty's
Government to carry a gun in England.
-- 
  Alan S. Watt
  Yale University			Computing and Information Systems
  Box 2112 Yale Station			(203) 432-6602
  New Haven, CT  06520-2112		Watt-Alan@Yale.Edu