HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fulton@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Ben Fulton)
Subject: Re: Age of Consent
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:46:57 GMT

In <19920813203901ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack Newsbaum) writes:

>systems. Children are required to live according to the rules set up by
>their parents, and child abuse is always forbidden. Presumably, the
>parents would not consent to their children having sex with adults.

Presumably, but not definitively.  If the parent does consent, however,
I do not believe that young children have the ability to make the decision
for themselves.  Here are the lines from the platform I have problems with:

>persons who are  willing to assume guardianship, and children have the
>right to seek other guardians who place a higher value on their lives.

and

>Children should always  have the right  to establish their maturity by
>assuming administration and  protection of their  own  rights,  ending
>dependency upon their  parents or other guardians and assuming all the
>responsibilities of adulthood.

Well and good, but what happens when my 8-year old decides I make her
go to bed too early, and decides to "seek other guardians", or move out
on her own?  While the ability of children to make their own decisions is
not directly based on age, it is related, and I don't think the platform
covers well enough the gray area of those who think they are capable of
making their own decisions, but demonstrably are not.

ben
fulton@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
will be president for food
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: Recall CA Gov. Pete Wilson!
Date: 22 Aug 92 09:06:30 GMT
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

In article <55823@olivea.atc.olivetti.com>, davepat@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Dave Patterson) writes:
> Hi all!
> 
> I am so angry with the budget situation here in California, that I feel 
> drastic measures must be taken.  A friend of mine and I are currently
> starting a Recall measure to oust Gov. Pete Wilson out of office.
> 
> We feel that his lack of leadership, his consistent arrogance with the
> electorate and the legislature, his imperilment of the California 
> educational system, his imperilment of the California health system,
> and the simple fact that he is not capable of efficiently leading this 
> state by not passing a budget (in 52 days), is in our opinion, reckless 
> and unwarranted.

	He is toeing the line against spending.  If you want to see part of the
reason why CA is in such a mess, see "Derailing the Reagan Revolution, part II:
seven more years?".  It has an article by Arthur Laffer demonstrating how that
tax increase in 1990 has really munged up the revenue picture.

> His consistent failures with the Legislature, (yes, including Republicans
> within), and his policy of blaming the Democrats, as well as the previously
> mentioned issues shows an extreme lack of leadership, professionalism, and 
> maturity.
> 
> Since we have never undertaken such a task, our question is:  Are there
> any good methods, books, advice from netters, on how to organize a large
> "grass roots" movement to get this going?

	Vote against the incumbents in November.

> We understand the procedures of creating, and are able to generate the 
> preliminary Recall documents, but are unsure as to the "Large Amount of
> Public Support/Volunteer Work" end, with respect to how to organize this.
> 
> We would appreciate your help in giving us pointers on how to go about
> achieving our goal of removing Gov. Wilson from office, and electing
> a real leader.

	Recall Reagan from retirement.
:)

Brett                                                      
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
Disclaimer:								   NOT!
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc,soc.women
From: stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Stephen Jascourt)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines
Subject: Re: Derailing the Reagan Revolution: Part zero: highlights
Date: 20 Aug 92 05:47:32 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Meteorology and Space Science

Brett writes:
>Stephen writes:
>>Brett writes:
>>> [concerning article he posted from Forbes magazine]
>>>	We'll see that while places like Eastern Europe and Mexico use the
>>>Supply Side Bible to bootstrap themselves into prosperity, the US, Japan and
>>>Europe seem content to emulate the failed socialist systems we defeated 
>>>in the cold war.
>> 
>> The systems referred to as "we defeated in the cold war" were NOT socialist.
>
>	Look, Steve.  We know all the die-hard socialists hopped on the "that
>wasn't socialism!!!" bandwagon as soon as the socialist countries started
>dropping like flies.

Real socialists were saying all along, for many decades now, that those
countries were *not* socialist. The term socialism is filled with mythologies
created by both the western capitalist states and the Soviet-block state
capitalists. The Soviet block countries did not empower the masses nor did
it make decisions for their benefit and well-being. Its policies were not one
of socialism. An centralized economy controlled by the state is not what
socialism is all about. Socialism is about  determining production and modes
of production according to the needs of society with fair and equal input by
all members of that society, and in a practical sense would work best with 
most things determined on a highly decentralized organization so that people
have the most control over things that affect them most directly. But it
is understandable how Brett and others misunderstood socialism, because of
the popular mythology surrounding that term.

>	But they called themselves socialist.  They named themselves socialist. 
>They followed socialist precepts.  They quacked like socialists.

They did not follow socialist precepts. As for quacking, I'll duck such a
foul remark. :) :)

>	Oh--all this backpeddling would be just a wee bit more believable if it
>had been done during the heydays of the xUSSR, instead of after the coup
>failed.

It was, but nobody was listening, and the volume is proportional to what the
press will print, and the press didn't want to undermine the popular mythology.

>Brett                                                      

Stephen Jascourt   stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
From: bfrg9732@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Brian F. Redman)
Subject: Re: Never again. How soon we forget.
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 16:50:02 GMT

kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay) writes:

>>>	Which US forces would that be?  I'm unaware of any US forces fighting
>>>for Tito after the war.

>>Quoting from the NEWSWEEK article (August 17th issue, page 20):

>>    On the frontier between Italy and Yugoslavia between 1945 and
>>    1953, dozens of American servicemen were killed, wounded
>>    or captured when Harry Truman's grunts and airmen [a.k.a. U.S.
>>    troops] exchanged shots with Tito's guerrillas.

>Ah, they exchanged pot-shots across the border?

It is a brief article and the author does not provide more details as
to the nature of the conflict. Perhaps you could write to him in care
of NEWSWEEK if you want more details. The point is that there *were*     e
U.S. forces over there.

>>>> wandering around battlefieds, I've never met fiercer fighters. They
>>>> could easily suck the United States into a ground war -- hook, line
>>>> and body bag." writes Hackworth.

>There is an alarming trend here to evaluate the horror and misery on some
>sort of Richter-like Scale of Universal Worth - it's not that you don't care
>about the folks being killed, you just don't think Americans should put
>themselves at risk for them, right?   That's clear enough, and cuts right to
>the core of western corruption.

It's like rushing in to a burning building. Sometimes the level of
risk is acceptable but other times it is not. It is not that one
doesn't care, it is just that if the situation is hopeless then it
is hopeless. 


>The issue here isn't whether or not stopping the internicene warfare will be
>easy, or painless, but whether or not we care to stop it at all. Whether the
>job would be a 'pushover' or a dangerous and painful undertaking isn't the
>issue, so Hackworth's comments are meaningless. (And yes, since you asked in
>a prior post, I would go - I'm an ex-Marine, trained in air delivery, and
>yes, I know what it feels like to have family at risk - my son served in the
>Gulf with the Marine Corps.)

B
[............. stuff deleted ..............]

>Sorry, Jack, no banana. I don't get my news from Yankee TV, although it
>would not matter if I did - folks _are_ dying over there, whether you
>believe it or not. We are not powerless, just lacking the moral fibre
>required to put a stop to the barbarity.

I am a bit puzzled as to your claim that you are an ex-Marine and your
later statement that "I don't get my news from Yankee TV." Could you
please clarify this?


Brian Redman
(bfrg9732@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu)
"Ah yes, Armageddon. I remember it well."


Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
From: dmorse@igc.apc.org (Dorothy Morse)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Fax Attack CORRECTION!!!
Date: 20 Aug 92 12:49:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1296500295:000:441
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dmorse    Aug 20 05:49:00 1992


From: Dorothy Morse <dmorse>
Subject: Fax Attack CORRECTION!!!

/* Written  5:47 am  Aug 20, 1992 by dmorse in cdp:soc.cult.afric */
/* ---------- "Fax Attack CORRECTION!!!" ---------- */
The number posted for Kunder in SOMALIA: Big Fax AttacK" is garbled.

It should be:  James_Kunder@f00912026475269.fax.sunet.se

So if you tried this and it didn't work, my profound apologies for the
incorrect posting.  Hope you will try again.
Dorothy.
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.individualism,talk.politics.misc
From: ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack Newsbaum)
Subject: Re: Age of Consent
Date: 17 Aug 92 11:20:37 PDT

In article <l8nm3pINNd3a@spim.mips.com>, on 14 Aug 92 15:59:53 GMT,
mpolen@gelato.mips.com (Michael Polen) writes:

>
>Jack Newsbaum) writes:
>|> >
>|> The age where the child assumes full responsibility for his needs, and
>|> leaves the guardianship of his parents or other adults. This may be
>|> either by his own declaration of emancipation, or it may be by virtue
>|> of his parents or other guardians having relinquished responsibility
>|> for the child's guardianship. As I see it, this need not be tied down
>|> to any specific chronological age.
>|>
>|> Any child who has moved out of his parents' home, and assumed total
>|> responsibility for his life's needs is, in my opinion, old enough to
>|> be considered a legal adult and to make decisions about sexual
>|> relationships for himself.
>|>
>So if parents kick out a 6 year old child, for any reason (lets say he
>reminds daddy of a brother he hated as a child), then that child is
>now responsible for his own life and is ready to consent to sexual and
>economic offers?
>
The child always has the right to seek new guardians who will act in
his interest in better fashion than his natural fashion. The Platform
seems to be unclear as to whether parents may kick out a child without
providing for alternate guardians.

    ====Jack====
From: l1z@ecl.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Protest! Protest! Protest!
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:34:15 EDT
Organization: Engineering Computer Lab, Pennsylvania State University

    The international students at PennState will be holding a protest against
the university's health insurance policy. The protest is dated August 17th,
Monday, in front of the HUB(hertzel Union Building) and the Old Main.
    PennState requires all international students came after fall,1990 to
buy insurance for themself and their dependents. The insurance should be the
MEGA plan provided by this school or other insurance that meet the waiver
standards. The waiver standards were set very strict so that international
students have no choice but to buy MEGA because any insurance that meet all
the waiver standards will be much more expensive than MEGA. The MEGA cost
about $500 a year for the student but $1778 for the student spouse and $800
for a child. If the  international student has assistantship, the school pays
%80 of the insurance for the student, but not for spouses and children.
MEGA doesn't provide good coverage for illnesses though it's so expensive.
    American students are not required to buy insurance for their dependents,
but they can choose to buy MEGA for their dependents if they want. So when
their wifes are going to have a baby. they may spend a few hundred dollars
to buy MEGA for their wifes for only one semester, and enjoy the maternity
coverage. The cost, certainly, will be imposed on international students who
are forced to buy MEGA even there's a lot of unwanted coverages like the
maternity coverages for their husbands and children!
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: IPO President, Zepp-LaRouche Address UN Human Rights Commission
Date: 21 Aug 92 06:59:26 GMT
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island, CANADA

In article <127-PCNews-124beta@ccs.covici.com> covici@ccs.covici.com writes:
>           IPO President, Zepp-LaRouche Address
>               U.N. Human Rights Commission
>
>GENEVA, August 19 (EIRNS)--This morning at 11:30 a.m., Dr.
>Hans Ko@auchler, President of the Vienna-based International
>Progress Organization, and Helga Zepp-LaRouche, wife of the
>jailed American political figure Lyndon H. LaRouche,
                 ^^^^^^^^^
An obvious typo - should have been "jailed American pathetic figure"

>doctrine upheld by the Supreme Court on June 16, 1992; and
>the case of Lyndon LaRouche. He then gave the floor to Mr.
>LaRouche's wife, Helga Zepp-LaRouche. 

LaRouche is a convicted criminal - that's easy enough to understand...

>United States Government. The real reason behind this, she
>said, is the fact that ``millions of people look to my
>husband and his fight for a global reconstruction plan, as
>the only alternative to a worldwide Thirty Years' War,

In your dreams.

>   Thanks to documents recently released under the FOIA,
>she continued, we now know that not only the police, but
>also, and most significantly, the U.S. Armed Forces, took
>part in operations against her husband, notably the October
>6, 1986 raid on their home in Virginia, which was supposed
>to have ended in the deaths of her husband and probably
>herself. The U.S. military, deployed against a political
>opposition movement! 

You mean the American government is incapable of toasting LaRouche at will?
(Oh, ye of little faith...)

[remaining drivel toasted with, apparently, more success than the Evil
Government Plan to dispatch LaRouche to his grave]
-- 
     -------------------> The Old Frog's Almanac <-----------------
I don't know why these net.nazis are always worried about "Thought Police"
How  can you be arrested by thought police if  you don't have  any brains?
(FidoNet: Joshua Lee on 1:109/542)
Xref: sparky alt.activism:15145 alt.news-media:852
From: cedman@714-725-3165.nts.uci.edu (Carl Edman)
Subject: Re: Media Bias at Republican Convention
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.news-media
Reply-To: cedman@golem.ps.uci.edu (Carl Edman)
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:45:49 GMT

Carl M. Kadie writes
> jswitzer@afit.af.mil (Chip Switzer) writes:
> 
> [...]
> >Every poll I have ever seen (including one I posted by the L.A. Times)
> >has put the news media considerably to the left of the American public.
> >Would you like me to repost it or email it to you?
> [...]
> 
> So what do you want quotas? If conservatives are less likely to choose
> media careers, that is their own fault.

Nobody is suggesting that there ought to be a quota system or that people with  
left-wing leanings should be fired from their media jobs. (Though of course  
that its what the left would do if things were otherwise). That is not the  
point of the frequent mention of the fact that the establishment mainstream  
media are considerably to the left of the general population. 

The point is to make people aware of the fact that if they open one of the  
better mainstream newspapers like the LA Times or the NY Times or the  
Washington Post or turn on PBS or CBS and read the 'factual' reports they are  
very likely reading someone whose allegiance is to the left and who is not  
afraid to let this influence his reporting and that hence all this information   
is to be taken cum grano salis.

	Carl Edman
Xref: sparky alt.activism:14877 talk.politics.misc:39988 soc.culture.latin-america:3084
From: kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.drugs,alt.society.civil-liberty
Subject: Re: Broward County Sheriff (was Re: SWAT...)
Date: 22 Aug 92 21:27:04 GMT
Organization: >>> Eskimo North (206)-FOR-EVER <<<

In article <1992Aug17.035229.17253@infonode.ingr.com> pat@fitz.uucp (Patrick Fitzgerald) writes:
>kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum) writes:
>
>>If you think you have cowboys here, be lucky you aren't in Florida, where
>>the Sherriff of Broward County, Nick Navarro, has carved himself a dukedom
>>amidst the Everglades canebrakes.  He was even making his own rock cocaine
>>for use in coke stings when said stings weren't bringing in enough rock to
>>act as stingbait for successive bust cycles.
>
>Sounds interesting, can you post more about this?

It's all in the old postings of these newsgroups (see Newsgroups: line)
and in alt.drugs .  I would like to supply a reference but can't.

>I seem to remember an incident in Florida, where police tactics backfired
>(literally).  The police pulled over a car (driven by suspected drug
>dealers), and decided to search the trunk of the car; however, the trunk
>blew up in their faces when they opened it.  While this is tragic, it was
>bound to happen since the courts let them stomp all over our rights (car
>trunk searches are legal without probable cause).

Serves `em right IMO.  Perhaps it'll make them more circumspect.
-- 
kurt@grogatch.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum)
 "People who sign their own .sig are just net.personality wanna-bees." --
 K. Cockrum
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: adamsr@netcom.com (Rick Adams)
Subject: Re: bush and the republican convention
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 18:34:05 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Aug16.073535.6994@ac.dal.ca> ckna@ac.dal.ca writes:
>News reports indicate US President George Bush intends to drop a bombshell
>that will send the US economy back up. Granted. Did he have to wait for so
>long to do the right thing? Now that NAFTA is meandering through the approval
>processes what else can Bush/Quyale offer US voters?
>
	Judging from the NY Times article that revealed his plans to bomb
sites in Iraq in order to boost his political ratings (according to a White
House Staffer), the "bombshell" he intends to drop at the convention is a
rather literal one.

	It's easy to help the economy recover - Bush style. Just start a
war, kill off the surplus poor as cannon fodder, put industry on a war time
footing, reduce our rights even further, muzzle the press, and "poof" you
have a successful economy!

	Sounds like the kind of price Bush is _very_ willing to pay, even if
the rest of us aren't!


-- 
    rick.adams on GEnie   /|\        You are right from your side,        
     adamsr@netcom.com  /  |  \        And I am right from mine.          
    adamsr@irie.ais.org \ /|\ /  We're both just one too many mornings,   
   adamsr@norwich.bitnet  \|/  And a thousand miles behind. (c Bob Dylan) 
Xref: sparky alt.activism:14927 alt.discrimination:3887 talk.abortion:32048
From: garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.discrimination,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: FOCA: And I quote.....
Keywords: From: decay@
Date: 17 Aug 92 13:47:01 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Aug16.232711.3481@anasazi.com> john@anasazi.com writes:

#Hmmm... that's odd. I heard a PRO-CHOICE advocate state that 1% of
#abortions in the US are in the 3rd trimester. These must be very
#busy and rich doctors.

That's *less* than 1%.  

Do a little research.

Susan


(I'm amazed that someone is posting to alt.discrimination and
quoting Joseph Sobran.)
From: blackmon@eng.auburn.edu (Ferrol Rawson Blackmon)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: El Salvador: Death Squads Escalate
Date: 13 Aug 92 03:28:45 GMT
Reply-To: blackmon@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering

>Does anyone else find the inclusion of right wing ads in a list of
>murders revealing?  Apparently right wing ads are just as bad as
>killing activists, eh Harel?  But if the people you support get
>control of El Salvador they'll end all that, won't they?  Free speech?
>Who needs it?
>-- 
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.

I think the emphasis was on the fact that the right-wing ads were blasting peace
accords.  Reread the article.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ferrol Funkmeister X                "Whatever you do Pile, don't try to get the
blackmon@eng.auburn.edu              f*ck up that obstacle.  If Gawd wanted you
Auburn University                    up there, He'd have miracled your ass up 
Computer Science and Engineering     there.  Wouldn't he, Pile?"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky alt.activism:15247 soc.women:15602 talk.politics.misc:41175
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Media Bias at Republican Convention
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:36:58

As for where to put the New Republic on the political spectrum, I may
be mistaken, but I don't recall that it has ever failed to endorse the
Democratic candidate for President.  Now perhaps Chuck Lavazzi puts
the center of the political spectrum to the left of the Democrats.
In this case the Democrats count as rightists and the Republicans
as extreme rightists.  The public comes out as almost, but not
quite, extreme rightists.  The Nation then counts as boringly centrist.
To get an actual moderate lefist journal you take Z.

--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
From: Dorothy Morse <dmorse@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Date: 20 Aug 92 05:53 PDT
Subject: SOMALIA:US delays aid again!
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1296500296:000:1426
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dmorse    Aug 20 05:53:00 1992


From: Dorothy Morse <dmorse>
Subject: SOMALIA:US delays aid again!

/* Written  5:30 am  Aug 20, 1992 by dmorse in cdp:soc.cult.afric */
/* ---------- "SOMALIA:US delays aid again!" ---------- */
Aug. 20, 1992, about 7 am Central Standard Time USA

National Public Radio just reported that US aid flights into Somalia will
be  "delayed because of looting."

The radio interviewer talked with a director of the World Food Program. She
asked him if negotations couldn't be carried on to let the food thru.  He
said, well you can negotiate with the major groups, but almost everybody
in Somalia has a gun.

There was no mention of the fact that in a country where only  10% of
the required food is present, there will of course be looting.

There was no mention of the recommendations by aid workers that saturating
the country with food is the only way to proceed.  No mention of the
statement by Doctors Without Borders that "the food that is looted is
not being hoarded, it is being eaten by whoever has it."

In short, it's a return to the old policy stated by our State Dept's James
Bolton--"an enduring ceasefire is essential before further actions can be
taken"--  a policy denounced by the Christian antihunger group Bread for
the World, who said, "Further delay can conceivably mean death and 
destruction for a generation of people."

See next post.  My original long post was lost in software; I'm splitting
this one.

Newsgroups: alt.activism