HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aa382@Freenet.carleton.ca (Marc Sira)
Newsgroups: rec.skate
Subject: Re: Braking in general w/inlines (was Re: Faster t-stop (how to))
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:22:58 GMT
Reply-To: aa382@Freenet.carleton.ca (Marc Sira)
Organization: The National Capital Freenet


In a previous article, grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) says:

>Being a skiier, the slalom comes natural, but there are two problems.  One, on
>the abrupt little hills here it is very hard to keep from speeding up anyway,
>no matter how hard you scrub the turns.  Two, it gets really nerve wracking
>when a couple cars come whizzing by and you don't have the whole (country) road
>or even a whole lane to turn it.

I agree that you should always be ready to fall back on the heel brake (or
other preferred stop) when slaloming, but like the heel brake, it can be
made more versatile if you work on it.

I ski a lot too, and initially did your basic skiing short turn with inlines.
It works when you've got a lot of lateral space, but on a downhill sidewalk
can be problematic.

An interesting thing to try is putting one foot ahead of the other (your
strong foot to start with, although like skiing, you can work to equalise
your leg strengths by favouring the weak side) and banking the turns
heavily, not unlike a snowboarder (or *gasp* skateboarder). You can do
extremely tight turns down steep hills this way, after a while. The tightest
turns happen when you allow the back foot to move inside of the front, in
relation to the turn (an attached GIF would be helpful here, but hopefully
that's somewhat clear). Actually, it's an identical movement to turning
tightly on a flat, but alternating and repeating. Use your arms as
counterweights, and you're set.

Of course it helps if your favourite skating route ends with a long, steep,
narrow hill, such that you end up practicing every day B-).



-- 
Marc Sira                    |
toh@micor.ocunix.on.ca       |  "Your god drinks...p-p-peach nectar!"
aa382@freenet.carleton.ca    '
Date: Thursday, 28 Jan 1993 12:25:48 EST
From: <RRATEICK@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.skate
Subject: Re: Warning: Bearing Cleaning

cfb@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Charlie Brett) writes

>For those of you considering using a water based solvent for cleaning
>bearings, please be sure to make sure your bearings are dry after cleaning.

I use acetone to dry the bearings after cleaning with aqueous solvents.
Soak the barings in a cup of acetone, remove the bearings, and let
the residual acetone evaporate, the water will go with it.
The acetone is flamable, but it is less of an environmental hazard
than fluorinated solvents.  By the way thats pure acetone, not nail
polish remover.

RICK RATEICK
UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME
RICHARD.G.RATEICK.1@ND.EDU    RRATECK@IRISHVMA.BITNET
From: aboulang@bbn.com (Albert Boulanger)
Newsgroups: rec.skate
Subject: Re: US National Championship results!
Date: 28 Jan 93 05:25:17 GMT
	<1k3ohvINNnq0@mojo.eng.umd.edu> <1993Jan28.000547.12620@dvorak.amd.com>
Reply-To: aboulanger@bbn.com
Organization: BBN, Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: kariba.bbn.com
In-reply-to: erussell@dvorak.amd.com's message of 28 Jan 93 00:05:47 GMT



In article <1993Jan28.000547.12620@dvorak.amd.com> erussell@dvorak.amd.com
(Ed Russell) writes:


 
   On the art issue - I want to see the art in the sport.  But it is hard to
   judge art, and easy to judge jumps and spins.  Art is truely in the eye of
   the beholder.  How do you suggest that the art be judged?  As for Ice
   Dancing - the move from the IOC is apparently away from entertainment to
   more athleticism and ballroom style.


Here is my view, although I know it will never happen in "competitive"
skating. I suggest that it be judged the same way other art forms are
judged *if* you feel it is necessary to judge. To many out there this
rank style of judging is *silly* (ie get a scalar rank from a high
dimensional problem.) I care very little for the competitive skating
scene -- BUT, I *love* skating and witnessing it. It really *is* a
matter of kinesthetic aesthetics to me. In just the same way I would
like to see a dance performance or to *be* in one.

Here is another example. Sometimes, in my style of skating, some of
the more competitive types will form a circle and have a little
showdown.  (You also see these circle form sometimes in dance clubs.)
However, when the music is really in control and getting people off
their bottoms you will witness some really cool jams where everybody
is doing it to the music *at the same time*. Everybody is feeding off
the music and each other. In these situations I have seen some really
amazing stuff -- even people who have rentals will try their best and
join in and do amazing stuff. This is what my skating self lives for.
To me, it is very similar to the goals (and results) ravers have in
their scene.



Just call me a ravin skater,
Albert Boulanger
aboulanger@bbn.com
From: wmc@photon.com (Bill Cornette)
Newsgroups: rec.skate
Subject: Re: Kucichii and Wedland?
Date: 25 Jan 93 08:50:20 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Photon Research Associates, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Amy Mossman (mossman@dipso.Berkeley.EDU) wrote:
: I was looking over the standings for the Pairs at the Nationals and
: notcied that Jenny Meno and Todd Sand are now skating togther. Does
: anybody know what happened to Natasha Kucichii (former partner of
: Todd Sand and my fave US pair) and Scott Wedland (former partner
: of Jenny Meno)? In the what happened to category, I also wondered
: if Chris Bowman is still skating. Last I heard he had dumped
: Toller Cranston (or was it the other way around) and was back in
: California. I really enjoyed his skating when he paying attention
: to it. I would give him my vote as the most sad waste of a great
: talent. Sort of the John MacEnroe of Skating but more tempermental.

	Having just gotten back from the Nationals -- here's what I heard:

Natasha Kuchiki skated in Senior (they called them Championship) Ladies.
Her short program was a disaster -- popped two required jumps -- to end
up in 19th out of 19.  She skated a beautiful long program that brought her up 
to 12th overall (the long was 9th).  She is skating singles (according to 
her) to keep her name before the judges until she can find another
partner.  She doesn't want to discuss (or talk to) Sand.
	Wendland was nowhere to be seen, but is reportedly looking for
a new partner.
	Meno and Sand look very happy together (at the competitors' party
Saturday night) and skated to a very comfortable second.
	Your information on Bowman is little out of date.  He moved to
Costa Mesa (Orange County, south of LA) to skate and train with John
Nix, who put him on the ice last year when he won the National title.
He has turned pro and is skating with Ice Capades (who incidentally
owns the Costa Mesa rink).  I talked to Nix and he says that Bowman says
that he will reinstatement, but Nix is not holding his breath -- Bowman
likes the show circuit too much.  Also, Kristie has stated that she
won't reinstate.
	I will try to right more of my impression of Phoenix tomorrow
(or today, since it is after midnight) when I have gotten a little sleep.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
William M. Cornette         Photon Research Associates, Inc.
(619) 455-9741              10350 N. Torrey Pines Road, Suite 300
FAX (619) 455-0658          La Jolla, California  92037
wmc@photon.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
T.A.N.S.T.A.A.F.L.
From: erussell@dvorak.amd.com (Ed Russell)
Newsgroups: rec.skate
Subject: Re: US National Championship results!
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:15:35 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

Charles,

Skating has not peaked yet!  That was probably IMHO part of the reason
that figures were eliminated from senior competition.  It allows the
skater to focus on the jumps more.  It also allows the younger skaters to
move up faster since there is less for them to master before becoming
competetive in freestyle alone.  We are also certain to see a lot more
skaters with serious injuries in coming years.  Triples are not SAFE jumps,
and the Pros tend to drop them from their shows very quickly!

I for one do not wish to see figure skating degenerate into the same kind
of thing that IMO women's gymnastics has degenerated into.  I want to see
some art along with the jumps and spins.   BRING BACK FIGURES!

As for comparing skaters at that level, IMO you might try to see whether or 
not the program looked effortless to them.  If they do it well - it will
look effortless.  For instance, watch Boitano doing a triple - he looks
like he might as well be taking a Sunday stroll!  That is one of the 
marks of a Champion.

Ed.
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.skate
Subject: Re: Skates are faster than bikes! (was: ASTM Roller ...)
Date: 24 Jan 93 00:27:01 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <C19LsF.38F@boi.hp.com> ahill@boi.hp.com writes:
> George Robbins (grr@cbmvax.commodore.com) wrote:
> > In article <1993Jan20.104713.8152@cc.gatech.edu> uwe@cc.gatech.edu (BROCKMANN,UWE) writes:
> > > Skaters can draft each other more closely than cyclists. They can touch
> > > each other and form a "train" when going downhills. This allows them to
> > > go faster than cyclists.
> > 
> > Bicylists do this in race situations.
> > 
> Huh?  I've done a lot of drafting in bike races, but I don't remember ever
> hanging onto the guy ahead of me (I'd need arms down to my feet).  I believe
> the point is that drafting skaters can more closely approximate the ideal
> of a single person taking the wind, and everyone else in the slipstream
> (there's a lot more more garbage hanging off a bike, and, since they're
> quite a bit longer than a crouched skater, they don't pack as tightly).

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say that they grab ahold of each other,
but drafting, forming pace lines and such are very important parts
of bicycle racing.

I'm quite a bit skeptical about your assertions that skaters are
"faster" than cyclists, but lacking any direct observations to
the point, I'll leave it.

Phil?

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...
but no way officially representing:   uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
Commodore, Engineering Department     domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
Newsgroups: rec.skate
From: ubi@updike.sri.com (Ron Ueberschaer)
Newsgroups: rec.skate
Subject: Re: Backwards braking...
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:07:30 GMT

jnewborn@ecst.csuchico.edu (Gadget) writes:
> Anyone have any useful tips on stoping [sic] while going backwards 
> without using the rear brake?  

Yeah.  I think it's called a backwards T-stop.  You get down really low
on one leg and put your other leg straight out behind you, while
turning your upper body to the side.  You then lower the skate to the
ground such that the boot/frame will be the first to scrape (you don't
want too much friction at first).  By gradually standing up, more of
the wheels come in contact with the ground, increasing the braking
effect.  (Of course, the skate that isn't braking glides backwards
smoothly in the original direction of motion.)

I think that this is one of the most stable ways of quickly coming to a
stop at high speed.  I've seen one in-line hotshot using this stop
after going forward very fast.  He does a quick 180 in the air and
lands in the proper sideways T-stance which initiates the stop.  I can
do a feeble imitation at low/moderate speed.  If I had more
guts/confidence, I might use it as an alternative to that pesky heel
brake :-)

Good luck (your mileage may vary...),


--
                    _    _   _ _  
Ron Ueberschaer    (_`  |_)   |           "For every complex problem, there is a
ubi@unix.sri.com   ._)  | \  _|_      solution that is simple, neat, and wrong."
415 859 4399       International                                  --H.L. Mencken
Newsgroups: rec.skate
From: greg@organia.sce.carleton.ca (Greg Franks)
Subject: Re: NEW World Records!!! Koss: 6.38.77 : -) Zandstra: 156.882
Organization: Systems and Computer Engineering, Carleton University.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:52:59 GMT

In article <thole.727963883@cs.rulimburg.nl> thole@cs.rulimburg.nl (Johan Thole) writes:
   >If there is any interest (and if I find the time), I can post more
   >results, both men's and women's.

   Yes, yes! I will start with the last twelf male skaters (for the curious,
   the last twelf skaters after three distances may skate the 10000m).

Thanks for the results!

The last twelve are actually the *fastest* twelve skaters after the
first three distances (500, 5000, 1500) based on samelagt (sp?)
points.  Samelagt points are the times normalized to 500m.  Skaters
attempt to minimize points.

The top seed of competitors skates last (to maintain spectator
interest).  The seeding rules take three or four pages in the ISU rule
book.
  ..greg



--
Greg Franks, (613) 788-5726               | "The reason that God was able to
Systems Engineering, Carleton University, | create the world in seven days is
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada  K1S 5B6.         | that he didn't have to worry about 
greg@sce.carleton.ca  ...!cunews!sce!greg | the installed base" -- Enzo Torresi
Xref: sparky rec.skate:4028 sci.med:24483 rec.skiing:10128 rec.running:4080
From: Donald Mackie <donald_mackie@med.umich.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.skate,sci.med,rec.skiing,rec.running
Subject: Re: Arch pain while skating(& skiing)
Date: 28 Jan 1993 05:39:55 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan Anesthesiology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.214.86.38
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
X-XXDate: Thu, 28 Jan 93 06:39:55 GMT

Subject: Arch pain while skating(& skiing)
From: Janet M. Swisher, swisher@cs.utexas.edu
Date: 25 Jan 1993 12:32:08 -0600
In article <lm8ch8INNku3@boogie.cs.utexas.edu> Janet M. Swisher,
swisher@cs.utexas.edu writes:
>My husband Paul would like to get in shape 

<deleted stuff with which I sympathize>

>He is interested in
>rollerblading, but the few times he has rented skates, he has
>developed pain across his arches within just a few minutes, severe
>enough to make him want to stop (he has high arches).  Adjusting the
>laces/straps or switching to a different size does not seem to have
>much effect.  The pain takes a couple of hours to subside.

<deleted experience with podiatrist>

I have exactly the same problem when cross-country skiing, both diagonal
and skating style. A real problem since this is the only winter activity
I will participate in. The pain is excruciating and has nearly brought me
to tears. Bad news when I'm on the trail and miles from anywhere. 
I tried assorted boots, usually by renting them, and also messed around
with how I laced my own boots. No help there.
I had some orthotics made - no real help so I took them back and in the
long run have had three sets made. The third set make a slight difference
so I use them sometimes.
I have rationalized what is going on in the same way as you have. I
believe I am working the small muscles of my forefoot hard in order to
control my skis. They cannot deal with the sort of work I am asking of
them. I have found that by consciously putting more weight on my heel I
can avoid most of the pain. It took a while and I have a rather
unconventional style but it has worked well for me. Every now and then,
particularly when moving fast, I move my weight forward and the problem
recurs.
One other thing I've noticed. The heavier I am, and I've been up around
260 pounds, the worse the problem is. Of course, weight control is one of
the goals of my exercise but it seems to be a factor, for me anyway.
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.skate
Subject: Re: ASTM Roller Skating Helmet Standard
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:19:15 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1993Jan22.220459.3377@cc.gatech.edu> uwe@cc.gatech.edu (Uwe Brockmann) writes:
> In article <melanie.727642608@ph-meter.beckman.uiuc.edu> msh@uiuc.edu writes:
> 
> >well, as a fellow experienced skater, i just can't agree with your
> >assesment.
> >
> >the above statement seems to me to say 'if you survive the first six
> >months, you won't need back-of-the head protection because you'll either
> >quit, or outgrow the urge to be creative.
> 
> I skate with a local club, the Atlanta Peachtree Roadrollers. We have
> regular skates with many participants on Monday and Wednesday nights
> and less popular and less regular skates on some other days. The Monday
> night skate is designed specifically for beginners. Faster skaters
> stop and wait for the slowest skaters at several points.
> 
> Some people "play around" creatively during such stops and at the
> meeting place before and after the skate, but for the most part people
> only skate the regular route forwards. Local skaters, myself included,
> prefer skating with others over skating alone. "Being creative" doesn't
> seem to work as well in a group as skating forwards. Maybe that is bad
> in some sense, but skating with others seems to be a good thing to me.

It sounds like some sort of selection is in effect here.  You have a
touring club and the folks that stay with the club settle down and
concentrate on touring don't fool around much.

The people who find other forms of skating more intesting may drop out
of your activities or lurk on street corners, playgrounds or skateboard
terrain.

I skate mostly indoors, but after a few years, the last thing I like
to do is just stroke around efficiently with the pack.  After a lap or
two, I'll start doing cross-steps, turns or zooming edges.

At the moment, I'm not too comfortable with my in-line skates, and don't
risk anything except forward skating and an occasional crossover, but as
I put in some more time and try to go more than a mile, I wonder what
will happen.

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...
but no way officially representing:   uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
Commodore, Engineering Department     domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
From: hjohnsen@cup.hp.com (Al Johnsen)
Newsgroups: rec.skate
Subject: Re: Who's who of net.figure.skaters
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:00:24 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL7]


	I began my skating (roller) career when I was a senior in high school 
in Sacramento, CA.  I thought it was neat for all those girls in short skirts 
and nice legs all over the place.  I, at first, just went for the Friday and 
Saturday night sessions but one of my friends suggested that we try the speed 
club.  About five of us started but I am the only one that stuck it out.  I 
skated my first Regionals in Fresno in 1956.  I did nothing but social skate 
and speed skate for about four years.  At that time a new owner decided that 
he did not like to have a speed club as it brought in the rowdy element and it 
ruined the floor.  He told us he would tolerate the speed club if everyone 
would skate two disciplines.  So I took my first dance test and figure test 
when I was twenty-one.  

	I moved to Redwood City and continued figure competition and I skated
dance for fun.  In 1969 I did skate dance at Regionals.  We did OK but there
was nothing to write home about.

	I quit for a while but ran into a couple of friends still skating
about 1979.  They invited me to a session and I found a partner right away
so I got back into it.  I skated Novice dance for three years and qualified
for Nationals in 1981 with a gal I am now married to.  I competed for three
years in Classic dance and didn't do so very good.  California is very
competitive in dance.  At least that is my excuse.

	I began skating in the Esquire division in 1985 and got third at
Regionals in 1986.  So I got to skate my second Nationals, this time in 
Indianapolis.

	In 1987 they started a new division (Masters) for people over 45 so I 
found a partner (Peggy Clark) and entered.  Our first year we made finals
at all the local contests, but we didn't win any.  However, we did win two 
events in 1987.  Regionals and Nationals.  If you are only going to win two 
events, those ought to be the two.  It is really neat to be on top of the 
podium looking out at all the people and being the best.  You can get addicted.

	Counting 1987 we have qualified for Nationals every year except one.
At Nationals we qualified for finals every time until this last year.  These 
new younger kids are sure hard to compete with.

	Roller skating has some different terminology and rules than the ice
part of the sport.  In roller skating, figures is following that little black
line on the floor.  Previous tracing is hard to follow on a wood floor.  
Figures is its own discipline on rollers.  It does not include the free-style
portion at all.  Free-style is its own discipline also.  

	Roller dance has more divisions than ice (I think).  The Novice
division is for dance teams whose ages are between 25 and 35.  Esquire is
for 35 to 45 and Masters is for those over 45.  I don't think ice has these
or anything like them in dance.  We do have World class competition just like
ice skating.  This last year the World Competition was held in Australia and 
the year before it was in Spain.
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.skate
Subject: Re: Head injuries despite helmets? (was: ASTM Roller Skating Helmet ...)
Date: 21 Jan 93 20:52:57 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1993Jan20.213031.24423@cc.gatech.edu> uwe@cc.gatech.edu (Uwe Brockmann) writes:
> Does anybody know of head injuries sustained by skaters despite their
> wearing helmets? Reports of such cases might invalidate my belief that
> bicycle helmets are sufficiently protective for skaters.
> 
> Examples of (avoided) head injuries follow. The examples suggest that
> wearing a bicycle helmet is a good idea even though some head injuries
> cannot be prevented by helmets (but can be prevented by common sense
> safety precautions).
...

Reviewing your examples, it sounds reasonable to me.  From my personal
point of view the bicycle helmet is adequate and the broad availability
and low price of such helmets is probalby more important than any
marginal inprovement in protection offered by a specialized helmet.
Statistically, there's far more benefit to wearing *any* helmet than
the one or two exception accidents that a different design *might*
protect against.

As far as the difference between cycling and skating accidents, the
main thing I see is that many cycing accidents are of the type where
you "fly" over the handlebars and land rolling or backwards, where
many skating accidents are more "frontal" where you simply run into
something or your feet get caught and you emulate a falling tree.
In such cases, I would wonder if more face/chin protection would be
the key, rather than worrying about the rear of the head.

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...
but no way officially representing:   uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
Commodore, Engineering Department     domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
Date: Tuesday, 26 Jan 1993 12:15:45 EST
From: <RRATEICK@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.skate
Subject: Inline/ice speed skates, recommendations?

I want to purchase inline speed skates this spring.  Does anyone have
any recommendations/comments on convertable inline/ice speed skates, such
Kazaz.  Can ice blades be mounted on Roces, Riedell or Pro-Blade boots?
Are mounting systems for inline frames and ice blades standard?  I would
appreciate any comments on these or related issues.  If you respond via
e-mail, I will summarize in a later post.

Thanks

RICK RATEICK
UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME
RICHARD.G.RATEICK.1@ND.EDU    RRATECK@IRISHVMA.BITNET