From: synth@deepthought.unm.edu (Synth F. Oberheim)
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: More on fantasies and discussing one or two (was) Re: Rape in any form ...
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:56:30 GMT
	<SYNTH.92Jul29195010@deepthought.unm.edu> <m2pm45c@lynx.unm.edu>
Organization: SynthMedia Productions Ltd.: The Danes Call It Quality


[ WARNING:  This post contains some descriptions that may be of a
sensitive nature to some of the readership.  Please hit 'n' now. ]

lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:

Laz> The fact that the image of sex is all they described doesn't mean
Laz> that it's, as you claim, "just an image of sex they're thinking of."

By your reasoning, then, analysis of *any* fantasy cannot be anything but
incomplete and invalid, since anything offered in their descriptions
somehow can never be truly comprehensive or even believed.

> ...up above is your first example.  Here's another:  "God would I love
> to shove my DICK in her mouth --" -- this in regard to someone they
> barely know.  Now tell me:  do you honestly think there is nothing in
> the above that suggests dominance or force? 

Laz> It's suggested, but to blow up that suggestion into a full-blown
Laz> rape fantasy requires a leap of logic that you're a   ^^^^^^^^^^
Laz> lot more eager to make than I am.

Conversely, your definition of "rape fantasy" seems to involve a lot more
of an extreme kind of image or attitude than mine.  Rape follows a *wide*
spectrum.

Laz> And by the way -- since when do dominance or force automatically
Laz> imply rape?

Depends on the sample you have hung out with.  In my experience bondage
and S/M attitudes were nil.  Your mileage may, and most likely does,
vary.

Laz> If these ... are really typical of the fantasies of the males you
Laz> were socialized with, then the fact that you still associated with
Laz> them says almost as much about you as it does about them.

"Still associated with them"?  From what hat did you pull *this* rabbit
out of ...?

Laz> (It sure as hell doesn't
Laz> sound like the people *I* remember hanging out with.  Did you
Laz> have a little circle of gutter-trash you were socialized with
Laz> part-time on the side?)

Somehow this sounds defensive.  I hope you don't think I've been
implying *you* or any circles you and I together have been in, because
you and those people are NOT who I'm talking about here ...

> I agree that simply hearing of someone expressing a desire to have sex
> with someone, without explicitly describing whether or not that person
> consents, cannot be construed to be a rape fantasy. 

Laz> From where I sit, it obviously looks like you're construing
Laz> exactly that.

You mean "looked", don't you, since I had now clarified that?  Or does
that not matter to you?

> If this is the source of the confusion, I apologize:  I never meant to
> suggest that these are the facts for describing a majority sample of the
> male race. 

Laz> That's what the words "most men" mean.  If you don't want your
Laz> words to be misunderstood, pick better words.

Perhaps you're not reading carefully; I had *just* said this myself.
A little rational calm might be in order.  And if you for some reason
have a personal nit to pick with me, which it looks like you do, then
take it to email.


===============================================================================
    :: :: :: :: ::     Synth F.    synth@deepthought.unm.edu    U S E N E T   
 :: :: :: :: :: :: ::  Oberheim    synth@yenta.alb.nm.us             in color!
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