HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Subject: Service (or lack thereof)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 23:39:24 GMT

In article <17725@autodesk.COM> mickw@autodesk.com (Mick Washbrook) writes:
>In article <1992Oct1.190901.17880@netcom.com>, sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:
>> 
>> Lest you think I am one of these people that expects obsequious service
>> and "Have a Nice Day" constantly -- hardly!  
>> I just think I should be treated with a modicum of respect by people
>> who are trying to get my money. 
>
>Ah, but you're making the assumption that going shopping or out for
>dinner in Britain is supposed to be an enjoyable experience. It's
>not. You're supposed to sit through abominable service, get soup
>spilled on you, have rude waiters ignore you, and then--when you're
>asked if you've enjoyed your meal that tasted like polystyrene 
>peanuts--reply, "Gosh! Rather!" Then you fork out two months'
>salary and stagger to the nearest vomitorium.
>
>You foreigners just don't get it.
>

You're right.  And we are not bothered.

Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:13322 rec.arts.books:17312
From: hendricks@cdrom.enet.dec.com (Holly Hendricks)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Date: 1 Oct 92 02:08:57 GMT
Reply-To: hendricks@cdrom.enet.dec.com
Organization: DEC


In my high school we read Julius Caesar in 9th grade, Romeo
and Juliet in 10th [as luck would have it, the same year an
excellent movie version with great adoleescent appeal was 
released, 1968], MacBeth in 11th grade, and Hamlet in 12th grade.  

In 12th grade the seniors went to see Hamlet at the Stratford
theatre in CT -- I remember the kids were obnoxious enough that
the actor playing Hamlet stopped and yelled at them from the 
stage, and I was embarrassed!

It certainly wasn't the easiest work we did in English class --
for example, To Kill a Mockingbird, Great Gatsby, and Huck
Finn made better weekend reading.

Nevertheless, I would not have traded that exposure for anything.
Throughout my life, I have heard and recognized numerous references
to those plays.  I have context for hearing the famous quotes.
As a music major, I had a context for the body of musical works
that were based on Shakespeare.

As an adult, it's probably not something I would pick up for
fun, but I would welcome the chance to study a Shakespeare play
with a knowledgeable teacher who could provide 'explication'
and background for a close reading.  I think I would love to
see a hypertext version that provided that kind of support
for the non-literature majors.

I would HATE to see Shakespeare taken from the curriculum.  Kids
don't have to like everything they do in school; I hated math
back then, but as a master's candidate in computer science today, 
I thank my stars I had no choice but to take it.  I had no way 
back then of evaluating how I would use math or Shakespeare later
in life.  I think wiser minds than adolescents should create
a basic currculum for secondary school lit, and allow teenagers
to supplement that curriculum with chosen books.

Holly
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
   Holly Hendricks
   Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 12:36:15 GMT

Linden Salter-Duke writes:

	I've just read in my "Grauniad Weekly" that all British 
	school-children are going to have a compulsory test on 
	a Shakespeare play at the age of 14. Is this really true, 
	or is it just a pinko-liberal rumour spread by the
	"Gradiron" to convince the rest of the world that the Tories 
	have gone stark staring bonkers?

	(Ex-English English teacher, and very relieved to be so)

It is, of course, not new. In the days of my youth it was always so
-- at least for those of us at schools that used the O&C Joint Board
Examinations. I imagine it was true for anyone at almost all of
the Private and Grammar Schools.  So, what's the problem? Is the
Shagger Pagger a Right Wing Loonie or something? Dreadful sexist
overtones? Or is it that the Peasantry should not have access to the
most universal of all writers in English? At Stonyhurst we did a
Shakespeare play for every year that I was there, but we also did the
Prologue to the Canterbury Tales and The Cocktail Party and quite a
lot in between. Not counting the stuff we did in Greek, Latin and 
French classes. Granted we never did Strine, but most of us never 
envisioned ourselves living out our lives upside down.

							Gaudeamus igitur
From: w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk
Newsgroups: uk.politics,soc.culture.british
Subject: I've found a copy of the Maastrict Treaty
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:12:41 GMT
Reply-To: w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk
Organization: Chemical & Process Engineering Dept, University of Newcastle, UK.

I've seen a copy of the Maastrict Treaty in the library.  If you want to
find it - you'll have great difficulty.
Why?
Because it's actually called the Treaty on European Unity.

   I wonder why they refused to use the correct name, and them the 
   party who were so pedantic over the name of the poll tax.

could it be that they are actually afraid that if they use the name
people might realise what the Government is doing???


It's actually a 253 page paper-back book.
Most of it is ammendments to 3 earlier treaties, so unless you've got
copies of those handy you won`t be able to understand all of it.

Different countries have protocols allowing them to opt out of various
things.  Portugal and Denmark have about one sixth of a page each of 
things which won't apply to them.  the UK has two and a half pages!!!

On page 11 it says that the term European Economic Community shall be 
replaced bye the term European Community.  So apparently the EEC is 
still the offical name of the Common Market, not the EC which has 
become commonly known in recent years.

--------------------------------------------------------
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Currency problems
Date: 1 Oct 92 09:25:31 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <qh33t78@zola.esd.sgi.com>, livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
> In article <1992Sep30.091450.917@bristol.ac.uk>, smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
> |> In article <qfgu4g0@zola.esd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
> |>
> |> >
> |> >Stupid argument.   If British coal is expensive, then importing
> |> >cheap coal benefits coal's customers, and there are a damned 
> |> >sight more jobs in British industries that *use* coal, than in 
> |> >the British coal industry itself.
> |> 
> |> I'll have a pot-shot at this one, though, because the word 'stupid'
> |> annoyed me.  The second sentence is true(-ish, with a twist I'll put on
> |> in a minute).  However, even assuming it's 100% true, one effect of the
> |> devaluation has been that the price in sterling of imported coal has
> |> leapfrogged the price of British coal, so that the imports WON'T be
> |> cheaper. 
> 

OK. My ignorance rules again, but I'm not convinced that this is either
necessarily correct or a good answer to Jon's argument. You see I remember
hearing that the reason all foreign coal is so cheap is that the coal-producing
countries' governments recognise the value of having a production industry
which employs large numbers of semi-skilled workers and so subsidise mining to
the hilt. This has the knock-on effect of making British privatised coal
hideously expensive (in comparison) and causing the loss of thousands of
unsubsidised British jobs. 

Jon claims that this is not a major problem, but I would disagree with him by
asking a what-if question. What if the Tories (unikely I know) had continued to
subsidise a national British coal industry to a similar extent as other 
coal-producers? British coal would have been cheap; coal mining jobs would not
have been lost; unemployment would have been lower all round.

I have another reason for supporting subsidies. If British coal were cheaper,
pollution from coal transport would be much less. It would not be necessary to
carry coal half way round the world on container ships and then across the
country on inefficient polluting lorries. And don't say anything about the
polluting effects of coal-fired power stations: if the subsidies that have been
given to nuclear power had instead been given to research into ways of cleaning
up emissions from coal-fired stations and ways of recycling the heat produced,
we would now be pretty much self-sufficient and non-polluting.

-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:51:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: zola.qnal7f0
Organization: sgi

In article <1992Oct5.100827.27951@bristol.ac.uk>, smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
|> In article <ql6g9ao@zola.esd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
>
>	[I said that I see no evidence that private services
>	are systematically better or worse than Govt. provided]
>
> Interesting, again I find that I start from the same set of 
> assumptions and a similar set of experiences, and end up at the 
> opposite pole to you.     (And, even worse, I'm pretty sure 
> that we're of much the same ages.)

Well, unless I am misunderstanding, it sound as though you
do have evidence of some systematic difference in the quality
of Govt. and private services.    I'd be interested to hear 
what it is.

> All I can do is repeat what I've said.  I can see reasons, in
> principle, why government services in specific sorts of areas 
> COULD be more efficient, and that my feeling is that, in those 
> areas, government ought to be doing the things.  

I'll go as far as to say that there are areas in which we all
agree that some spending is needed, and it's inefficient to do
it with bake-sales.   Defence, education, national health care,
justice.

However, I don't agree that what is a good model in those
areas necessarily extends to all the minor areas where local
politicians would *like* to be your serice provider.    Just
because it's efficient to have the Government build the
fighter jets and aircraft carriers, doesn't mean that it's
efficient for City Hall to haul your garbage and maintain the
roads.

> If they are not maximally efficient, the answer is to figure 
> out WHY, not to go passing these things off to someone who, 
> by virtue of needing a profit on top of the minimal costs,
> does not even have the potential for ever hitting the minimum.

Why should we spend our lives figuring out a way to make
Govt. efficient in areas where private industry is already
offering a better price?   If people want to run for office,
I assume they are making an implicit claim that they already
know how to manage things.   Why should I pay to elect local
politicians and then pay again to train them to do their jobs
when Harry's Haulage will do it for the cost of a phone call?
So Harry's Haulage isn't "official?   So what?

jon.
From: ian@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Ian Watson)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 18:29:44 GMT
Subject: New 10p coin; offer to all Germans
Organization: Hewlett-Packard ISG-SBU-PWD, UK.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british


I just got my first new 10p (GBP 0.10) piece today.
QUESTION : When did it come out, anyone ?

FYI, it's the same design as the old one.  The old one was the same size as
the even older 2/- coin.  The new one is the same size as the old 5p piece,
which in turn was the same size as the even older 1/- piece.
QUESTION : When did we get rid of the old 5p piece ?  
QUESTION : Can I still change all the ones I have in the spaghetti jar at 
           home at banks ?

Actually, I don't think I'd change them anyway; it'd be better to wait until
vending machines and phone boxes get converted to use the new 10p and use the
old 5p pieces in them :-$ (<-- "put your money where your mouth is").

This is also good news for Germans.  (no, not because they all want to buy
sterling, numbskull !  Nul points for that suggestion).  No, because once again
they have a ready supply of foreign coins to use instead of 1DM pieces in
*their* vending machines.

To all Germans :  I will sell you 1DM-piece clones for, oh say 20p.  Any takers
?  Let's BOTH double our money.  Now *THIS* is the kind of European Monetary
Union I like !!

Byeeee !!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ian Watson, HP Pinewood Information Systems Division, England.
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Date: 6 Oct 92 11:52:01 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <1992Oct5.174839.12819@bristol.ac.uk> smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:

   A bit weak.  So, you'd be happy if you paid your $100000 to Rolls
   Royce, and then a Lada (with the same capacity and 0-60 spec) arrived
   at your door?  (Assuming both meet some governmentally laid down
   'specification of minimum acceptibility', and that someone, probably the
   guy who paid for the Lada, ends up with your Rolls?)  No, that is not a
   real choice of supplier for the consumer.  

If the Lada's every bit as good as the Roller, it'd be quite OK to have the
Lada, surely?  If it wasn't, then the specification wouldn't have been drawn
up properly.

I'd quite enjoy seeing a Lada with the performance of a Bentley Turbo R...
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)

		
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: Simon <slking@epx.cis.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Names of naughty politicians
Organization: Univ MN
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1a2
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:33:09 GMT



>
>Profumo
>Mellor
>Thorpe
>Archer
>Lucan (not a politician but the right flavour)
>
>There must be more so get out those back numbers of Private Eye (RIP)
and 
>mail the names to me.  They don't strictly have to be politicians, any 
>pompous/famous git will do.
>
>Cheers,
>Tim Phipps.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R Pennell)
Subject: Re: Halloween in England
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 12:31:39 GMT

mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
: Yes, my objection was your mention of Celts as if they were the
: only pagan people in Europe, or as if any pagan borrowings in
: Christianity must come from the Celts as opposed to anyone
: else. My feeling is that the RC Church preserves Euro-paganism
: in a far better form than any modern trendy revivals.
	
	Africa and SOuth America too: cf Voodoo (or is it the Gods of
Dahomey who syncretised RC traditions in that case?

Richard Pennell, History NUS
From: pierre@pogo.wv.tek.com (Pierre L. Sangan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Anyone Listening in GUERNSEY or JERSEY
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:41:11 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

I am wanting to establish EMAIL link's with Guernsey. If anyone is reading this please
reply or if anyone knows of an EMAIL address there, let me know.

Thank's in advance !

Pierre.
-- 
Pierre L. Sangan                    pierre@pogo.wv.tek.con
Tektronix Inc. (GPID)
M/S 63-630, 26600 SW Parkway
Wilsonville OR 97070
From: ian@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Ian Watson)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:29:37 GMT
Subject: Re: Make a friend today, send a postcard to Oz ...
Organization: Hewlett-Packard ISG-SBU-PWD, UK.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british


Be careful, this may just become the next Craig Shergold...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ian Watson, HP Pinewood Information Systems Division, England.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: ian@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Ian Watson)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 10:20:05 GMT
Subject: Mellor replacement
Organization: Hewlett-Packard ISG-SBU-PWD, UK.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british


Heard today that one of the possible replacements for David Mellor is John
Redwood, MP for Wokingham.  Now say what you like about DM, at least he had
some pizazz.  John Redwood, on the other hand, is about the dullest individual
it has ever been my misfortune to go to sleep to.  If he gets the job then you
can say farewell to the term 'Minister for Fun', and replace it with something
like 'Minister for Culture', or something equally appropriate to the greyest
ex-regime of an Eastern European country.

It just struck me last night that neither D.M. nor A.deS. was exactly what
you'd call good-looking.  Perhaps their mutual attraction was that on the
bathroom scales together they enjoyed the fact that they were around
their ideal combined weight.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ian Watson, HP Pinewood Information Systems Division, England.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: tim@hpcpbla.bri.hp.com
 (Tim Phipps)
Subject: Names of naughty politicians
Reply-To: tim%hpcpbla.bri.hp.com@hplb.hpl.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Computer Peripherals Division, Bristol, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 10:46:56 GMT


I'm setting up a cluster of workstations and it has been decreed that the
hostnames will have a theme.  The weenies around here want to name them
after characters from Startrek (yuk).  To counteract this I've come up 
with the idea of politicians disgraced by scandal (the more sordid the better).
I need your help with some more names. I have so far:

Profumo
Mellor
Thorpe
Archer
Lucan (not a politician but the right flavour)

There must be more so get out those back numbers of Private Eye (RIP) and 
mail the names to me.  They don't strictly have to be politicians, any 
pompous/famous git will do.

Cheers,
Tim Phipps.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: e-mail address
From: rana@evax2.engr.arizona.edu (NAME=Vivek S.J.B. Rana)
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:22:21 MST
Reply-To: rana@evax2.engr.arizona.edu
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona, College of Engineering and Mines, Tucson

Could someone please send me the E-mail address of 
                Hastings College of Art and Technology,
                Archery Road,
                St. Leonards, E. Sussex.

Thanks in advance.
                                             Vivek Rana
                       e-mail add :  rana@evax2.engr.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Subject: Re: Pardon my ignorance and such
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:12:24 GMT

In article <17710@autodesk.COM> mickw@autodesk.com (Mick Washbrook) writes:
>
>I'm reminded of the time when Charlton Heston was arguing with some 
>British journalist about the Gulf War. The journalist asked Heston
>where Kuwait was and which countries shared borders with it. It was
>exquisite to watch Heston try and avoid the question--he clearly
>didn't have a clue where the country was. The journalist told him
>that if you're going to bomb a country, you might at least have
>the decency to know where it was.
>
>--

How the heck can I bomb something if I don't know where it is?  
Oh I get it, we had the British troops to show us the way.  
You'd been there before anyway...   ;-)


Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:13505 rec.arts.books:17501
From: thorntn@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Duncan Peter G. Thornton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:23:38 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada

In <1992Sep30.163742.20329@infodev.cam.ac.uk> ag129@cus.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant) writes:

>In article <1992Sep30.122808.5256@epas.toronto.edu> sfysh@epas.utoronto.ca (Stephanie Moskal Fysh) writes:
>>After 4-5 years of Shakespeare in high school I'd have expected my
>>19-20 year old first year Honours English students to comprehend it
>>too.  Many of them didn't.

>Which might say something about Canada, but it's not like this in Britain.
>Eng. Lit students may not _like_ Shakespeare, but that's usually because
>they're into Ionesco or Beckett instead, not because the university picked
>them for their skill at ice hockey. (We have Land Economy for that :-))

Geographical pride compells me to say that it's not like this in
Canada either. I was in a _non-honours_ Shakespeare course at the
University of Saskatchewan (a smaller & less prestigious place than
Stephanie Fysh's) about a decade ago. The class was full of
Education students (usually, my apologies to all of them in advance,
the dumbest people in any humanities course). None of us, even
the Education students had a lot of trouble, but we had a really
good prof.

- Duncan

                    
Duncan Thornton          | Modernists had something to say which required them
thorntn@ccu.umanitoba.ca | to be revolutionary; post-modernists are required
  *GKC rules ok*         |    to be revolutionary, but have nothing to say.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:13372 rec.arts.books:17358
From: mattb@ctron.com (Matt Brown)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Date: 1 Oct 92 16:16:01 GMT
Reply-To: mattb@olympus.ctron.com (Matt Brown)
Followup-To: soc.culture.british
Organization: Cabletron Systems INc.

(Christopher M. Palmer) writes:
>(Chris Cooke) writes:
>>The problem is that making the study of Shakespeare's works compulsory is the
>>most effective way of getting most of the population to loathe them utterly
>>until the day they die.  It's counter-productive.
>I really don't want to sound nasty, but the logical conclusion to the
>above statement is that if we want our children to know everything, we
>should teach them nothing.  The answer is making the education
>interesting, not dropping everything that might bore someone.

So close. The gap between the Chris's contentions is the killer. Making the
subject interesting is the key. Not all English teachers are capable of 
making Shakespeare interesting. Making Shakespeare compulsory without finding
a way to make sure it is taught well is the problem.

Now before you all think this is a mean whack at English teachers, let me 
explain.

Even with the best teacher under the best circumstances, not all kids will
catch Shakespeare fever. With a teacher who is doing Shakey under duress,
only a small subset will "non-loathe". This is not a "bad" teacher, just 
not a Shakespeare teacher. The same teacher may save lives with Emily
Dickenson.  This is where a smart administration (is that like military
intelligence?) will let the teachers trade classes and teach to their
strengths.

If anything is compulsory, it should be attendence at a performance. 
Shakespeare without a performance (to any but an exceptional adolescent)
is just a book with funny words and stage directions. Give every kid a
plain English (ie, modern) plot summary, and drag them to the play. With
that boost, almost any teacher has a foot in the door. If you can hand
those kids over to the Shakespeare-inspired teacher, all the better. 
Every kid will be better for the exposure, and if they end up hating it,
a least they will have a better reason than mere boredom.

So, compulsory? Yes, if tied to a performance.
If not, show a movie version.
If you can't manage that, forget it.

Matt
From: kmurali2@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Looking for E-mail ads.
Date: 6 Oct 92 23:56:50 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

Hi Netters,

Excuse me for posting this request here. I am looking for the e-mail 
address of the following personals.

       (1)	A.S.Lewis
       (2)	G.Knowles
	Both of them are with the Dept. of Electrical Engineering, Imperial 
college of Science & TEchnolgy, London, SW72BB, UK

*****************************************************************************
      (3) 	S.Yao
      (4)       R.J.Clarke
	Both of them are with the Dept. of Electrical & Elctronic Engineering
Heriot - Watt University, 31-35 Grassmarket , Edinburgh, EH1 2HT, Scotland, UK
	
Pleae send me the e-mail.

thank you,
Murali.k