HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: twete@tweety.wr.tek.com (Bob Twete)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Is golf that much different of a sport?
Keywords: etiquette
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:33:28 GMT
Reply-To: twete@tweety.wr.tek.com
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <07yn7yr.mzimmers@netcom.com> mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:
>In article <1992Sep14.210119.9428@colorado.edu> cdash@moet.cs.colorado.edu (Charles Shub) writes:
>
>>In stroke play, if one observes a rule about to be broken, one
>>can do (legally) one of two things:
>>a) one can inform the person about to break the rule of the potential
>>   infraction.  This is NOT giving advice, but is "INFORMATION ON THE
>>   RULES" as permitted in rule 8.
>>b) one can elect to allow the rule to be broken, and then invoke the
>>appropriate penalty.
>
>And as Tom Watson says in his book on rules, option b) is very poor
>etiquette and ought to be used only by players wearing Raiders tank
>tops and sucking on a can of Pabst.  On the other hand, such players
>probably think that rules are for wimps anyway...
>-- 

I am a fairly new golfer, about three years worth of serious play. I
come from a basketball and baseball background. I do not wear a tank
top on the course, and I have never sucked a Pabst or any other beer
(on the course :-)), and I try to follow all of the rules.

I must admit I question if I could really deal with the etiquette part
here. If I am playing a tournament and going head to head with someone
for the lead, I think I might wimp out here and not tell the player
they are about to break a rule.

I bring this up as I struggle with this situation. Is golf that much
different than other sports? I would never think to tell an opponent to
not step on the plate when hitting (an automatic out) nor would I tell
an opponent their foot is on the line during a free-throw (an possible
violation). In soccer there is a play called an off-side trap designed
to MAKE the opponents violate. If I am in a friendly game, I would
certainly point these things out but when winning (or money) is on the
line, I guess I might revert back to old habits. I guess I am a slob
but this is a tough one to figure out.

Golf is considered a gentleman's game. If the game holds itself to
higher standards than other sports does that imply that other sports
are less than gentleman's games? That I would have a REAL problem
with.  I hope this initiates an interesting debate.

RT
--------------------------------------------------
Bob Twete                    - twete@tweety.WR.TEK.COM
Prism Engineering            - 503-629-3147
Logic Analyzer Product Line  - 92-734
--------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: Is golf that much different of a sport?
Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 02:15:55 GMT

twete@tweety.wr.tek.com (Bob Twete) writes:
 
: Golf is considered a gentleman's game. If the game holds itself to
: higher standards than other sports does that imply that other sports
: are less than gentleman's games? 

Yes.

: That I would have a REAL problem with.  I hope this initiates an
: interesting debate.

Sorry you have a problem with that.  If I play well, I'm happy.  If my
opponent plays even better, then good for him/her (yes, I've been
beaten by women several times).  I know people who actually hope their
opponent misses shots and plays badly.  If you want to win so badly
that you hope your opponent plays poorly, then you need to take up a
different sport.  Playing golf is not a means to and end (beating
somebody else) it's an end in itself.

I am only speaking of amateur golf.  If you need to win a match to pay
for gas to get home and food to feed your children, then it's not a
sport, it's a profession.

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  Talking Pinhead Blues:
Rosemount Inc.                                |Oh, I LOST my ``HELLO KITTY''
                                              |DOLL and I get BAD reception
grante@aquarius.rosemount.com                 |on channel TWENTY-SIX!!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: cdash@moet.cs.colorado.edu (Charles Shub)
Subject: Re: Correcting HOGWASH
Organization: University of Colorado at Colorado Springs
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 21:01:19 GMT

crisar@rulcvx.LeidenUniv.nl (Anton van Rosmalen) writes:
=>   Playing the local club tournemant , last sunday i boo-boo ed on the
=>   second hole and teed - off a couple off incches in front off the marker
=>   one playing partner immediatly after completing my swing corrected me 
=>   So i gather he knew i was in error but elected not to warn me.....
=>   what is the concensus on the net on this subject .
=>   cheers 

dbingham@x400gate.bnr.ca (David Bingham) responds:
=>  Your partner may have been guilty of giving advice (2 stroke penalty)
=>  if he had said anything before you hit.  You never said what penalty
=>  you were under after he pointed out your error - if only your pride was
=>  hurt, no great loss, and now you'll be more careful (hope you thanked
=>  him).  If it cost you strokes or the hole, that's the rules (you were
=>  playing a tournament after all).  Not knowing the guy personally, we
=>  can only guess at his motives... 

David is incorrect.  
In match play it is not a violation to tee off from outside the teeing
ground.  Disbelievers should look at rule 11-4.

In stroke play, if one observes a rule about to be broken, one
can do (legally) one of two things:
a) one can inform the person about to break the rule of the potential
   infraction.  This is NOT giving advice, but is "INFORMATION ON THE
   RULES" as permitted in rule 8.
b) one can elect to allow the rule to be broken, and then invoke the
appropriate penalty.

If one does neither of the above, one should then be disqualified for
violation of rule 1-3.

Technically, Anton's partner should have been disqualified.  Were the
tournament committee made aware of the facts Anton's partner would
have been disqualified.  Also, Anton himself would probably have been
disqualified for violation of rule 11-4
-- 

charlie shub  cdash@cs.Colorado.EDU       -or-         (719) 593-3492     
on leave at the University of Iowa  cdash@cs.uiowa.edu (319) 335-0739
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: fragante@unixg.ubc.ca (Gv Fragante)
Subject: Re: sybervision
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 22:10:40 GMT

In <Sep04.222522.60238@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> wayman@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Jeffrey Wayman) writes:

>Yeah, that's the one.  A lot of people didn't care for it, which is 
>what made me think it might be out of print.  I thought it was great
>when I was in a position to concentrate on it.  If anyone has any info
>on it, I'd be grateful.

>Jeff       wayman@lamar.colostate.edu

Well, if you haven't seen it yet - the tape has very little, if not any, vocal
instructions. The tape is divided into sections - dirver, fairway woods and
irons. It seemed like they take one picture of Al and replay it over and over
in slo-mo from different angles.

It's a nice swing to watch, but it still doesn't tell you much (i.e. - how the
swing should feel).
From: dil@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Perry G Ramsey)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Rules question
Keywords: O. B., Rules
Date: 8 Sep 92 16:02:48 GMT
Organization: Purdue University, Department of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences

In article <1992Sep8.030616.7974@nas.nasa.gov> dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan King) writes:
>
>In article <10583@wrgate.wr.tek.com> twete@tweety.wr.tek.com (Bob Twete) writes:
[Lodged a ball in a boundary fence and]
>>hit a provisional, played the provisional and took a *.
>
>... by playing 
>the provisional, you broke rule 15. Playing a Wrong Ball.
>If you had been playing Match play, you would have lost the 
>hole.  If you had been playing stroke play, you should have
>added a two stroke penalty to your score for the hole.

Nonsense.  You can ALWAYS hit again from
where you started, under the penalty of stroke and distance.
Sometimes it's declaring a ball lost, sometimes it's calling it
unplayable, but you can always take that option.  Even in a water hazard.
The price for doing so is severe, but it's always legal.  There are often
better ways out of the jam, but eating stroke and distance is available as
a last resort. 

(OK, nitpickers, I suppose if you actually holed out you couldn't take
stroke and distance, since you were finished playing the hole.)  


-- 
Perry G. Ramsey         Department of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences
dil@mace.cc.purdue.edu  Purdue University, West Lafayette, IN USA
perryr@purccvm          Life is short ...
N9LFF                   Don't waste it folding underwear.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: yeonwook@hardy.u.washington.edu (Mark Choi)
Subject: Irons and Woods for Around $500
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 02:45:57 GMT


Hi. A while back, I asked for recommendations for irons and woods around
$600 dollars. Well, this time it's $500. The world of golf clubs is so 
huge, I cannot begin to study it as I am just a person who goes out to
the course and hits the ball in the hole. I have heard excellent ratings
for the Ping Zing and Mizuno clubs. However, I realize Ping Zings are 
out of my financial picture...what about Mizunos? Is it possible to get
a Mizuno set of irons with cavity back + woods? Oh, by the way, what
woods do you recommend? (of course this all has to be around $500 
total). I like the feel of Mizuno MST woods (or was it MSP or MSX? 
Hmm..I forget)....but I kept myself from getting to excited because of
the unknown price. If you have any comments recommending a good 
cavity back iron + wood set, please email me! Thanks!

-- 
    .  .      +---------------------------------+
  --|--|      | Mark Yeon Wook Choi             |
   /.\ |      | yeonwook@hardy.u.washington.edu |
  --|--|      +---------------------------------+
From: wayman@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Jeffrey Wayman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Wide-body drivers
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:37:09 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523


A friend of mine is in the golf business and *forced* me to buy this
driver called "Big Brother" (yeah, I know, it's the dorkiest name possible).
Through a back injury, my swing has deteriorated some, so I needed
something which would make up for its deficiencies.  The clubhead is
huge and is made of graphite, as is the shaft.  I think it's great.
I'd recommend it to anyone who doesn't have the time or abiliity to
create a decent swing; to those who do have a good game (below 5 hdcp),
it depends on how you swing.  I think it sells for about $100, give or
take $25?  I've never seen it anywhere else; if someone wants one,
he may still have some around -- email me.


Jeff       wayman@lamar.colostate.edu
From: mdiamond@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Mark P. Diamond)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: The Rules of Golf vs the State of Oregon
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:09:37 GMT
Reply-To: mdiamond@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Mark P. Diamond)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation
Originator: daemon@sword.eng.pyramid.com

In article <1992Sep10.160438.28741@sequent.com> john@sequent.com (John Vander Borght) writes:
>We had an interesting question about the rules last week at our US
>Mid-Amateur Qualifying at Pumpkin Ridge.  A number of holes on the course
>have environmentally sensitive wetlands bordering the holes.  The laws of
>the State of Oregon say that people are not allowed in these wetlands for
>any reason.  BUT, they are water hazards and the Rules of Golf say you can
>go into a water hazard and play the ball out.
>

...

>I think that it should be resolved by saying that you should just live by
>the law and tell people that if their ball is in the hazard they may not
>use the option that allows them to play it from the hazard and if they would
>have to stand in the hazard to play their shot, they must either play it
>without standing in the hazard or take an unplayable lie.  In other words,
>you play this just like you would play a lake with a 20 foot drop-off at
>the edge of the water.
>

They face a similar problem at the Links at Spanish Bay at Pebble Beach.
The links is built within a series of environmentaly sensitive sand dunes,
which cannot sustain any foot traffic whatsoever.  They have a local
rule which gives all players a free drop from for shot going into these
protected areas.  I think this is a little too generous, as my numerous
free drops gave me significantly better lies than had I been forced to play
them from the dune.  I like treating them like a hazzard.

Mark <>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: fragante@unixg.ubc.ca (Gv Fragante)
Subject: Re: Wide-body drivers
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:29:11 GMT

In <1992Sep10.155209.5586@wdl.loral.com> bll@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Brad Loney) writes:

>I tried several types of drivers at the range.  I ended up purchasing the
>Mid-Size Taylor Made driver 10.5 degrees loft.  This driver is a little more
>conventional then say the "Big Bertha".  The biggest advantage of a larger 

Well, please tell me more about the System 2 Mid-size driver. I was trying one
at the golf shop the other day and was impressed with the sound and feel of
the head - very *unlike* the typical 'tink' sound of the Callaways. It felt
and sounded more like a persimmon wood than a metal wood. Did you get one with
a graphite shaft ?

Also, anyone out there tried the new Cleveland Classic Launcher that is
another Big Bertha knock-off ?
From: ian@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Ian Watson)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 09:15:18 GMT
Subject: Rules poser
Organization: Hewlett-Packard ISG-SBU-PWD, UK.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf

Here's a question that kept us going for a while in the pub last night.

"Your ball is in a puddle in a bunker.  How many options do you have, and what
are they ?"

It'll be interesting to see how well people know this, especially as it's not
an arcane rules corner-case, but a very common situation.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ian Watson, HP Pinewood Information Systems Division, England.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: ckf@f16.cray.com (Charles K. Foley)
Subject: Availability of Dave Pelz's Putting Book?
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13:20:09 GMT


Recently someone on this newsgroup recommended Dave Pelz' book on putting
titled "How to putt like the pros".  I decided to try to work on my putting
and I thought the book would be a good start but I can't find it anywhere.
I've tried the local golf pro shops and some of the golf retail shops in
and around Durham, NC.  Where else should I try?

Does anybody know if the book is available through mail order somewhere?

Thanks for your assistance!

--
Charles K. Foley, Ph.D.
Cray Research, Inc.
P.O. Box 12746
Research Triangle Park, NC 27709			ckf@f16.cray.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: russb@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (russell.e.brodfuhrer)
Subject: Re: Rules poser
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:54:36 GMT

In article <1220037@hpopd.pwd.hp.com>, ian@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Ian Watson) writes:
> Here's a question that kept us going for a while in the pub last night.
> 
> "Your ball is in a puddle in a bunker.  How many options do you have, and what
> are they ?"
> 
> It'll be interesting to see how well people know this, especially as it's not
> an arcane rules corner-case, but a very common situation.
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Ian Watson, HP Pinewood Information Systems Division, England.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


You may:

	drop within the confines of the bunker, not nearer the hole,
	at a spot nearest to where the ball lay that affords maximum
	relief from the puddle - no penalty.

	- or -

	drop outside the bunker, on a line from where the ball lay and
	the hole - penalty of 1 stroke.

Russ Brodfuhrer
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: mats@modcomp.uucp (Mats Hellstrom)
Subject: Re: Rules poser
Organization: MODCOMP, an AEG company
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:23:14 GMT

d90gl@efd.lth.se (Gustaf Loefberg) writes:

>In article <BuKAsE.HE6@alsvid.une.edu.au>, jlangfor@alsvid.une.edu.au (Joseph Langford) writes:
>|> From article <1992Sep10.153319.2114@mmm.serc.3m.com>, by us267384@mmm.serc.3m.com (Steven M. Anastasi):
>|> > From article <ILH.92Sep10094136@winnie-the-pooh.lcs.mit.edu>, by ilh@lcs.mit.edu (Lee Hetherington):
>|> >> According to Rule 25-1b regarding taking relief from casual water...
>|> >> 
>|> >> (ii) In a Hazard [not water hazard]: If the ball lies in or touches a
>|> >>      hazard, the player shall lift and drop the ball either:
>|> >> 
>|> >>   (a) without penalty, in the hazard, as near as possible to the spot
>|> >>       where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole, on ground which
>|> >>       affords maximum available relief from the condition; or
>|> >>   (b) under penalty of one stroke, outside the hazard, keeping the
>|> >>       point where the ball lay directly between the hole and the spot
>|> >>       on which the ball is dropped.
>|> >> 
>|> >> So, take relief in the bunker with no penalty, or drop outside
>|> >> (behind) it with a one stroke penalty.
>|> >>
>|> > 
>|> > What defines "casual water".  Can an extremely rain soaked sand 
>|> > qualify as "casual water" even though there is no liquid on the
>|> > surface of the sand.  What about if the water is visible when 
>|> > you stand in the sand but then disipates in a few seconds.
>|> 
>|> The definition of casual water is water that can be visibly seen prior
>|> to the addressing of the ball. Therefore if you walk into a bunker and 
>|> water appears due to the pressure of your weight, this is not casual
>|> water                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>|> -- 
>|> Joseph Langford  Internet:  jlangfor@loki.une.edu.au   Phone:  +61 66 ????????
>|>     University of New England, Northern Rivers (Lismore) NSW Australia

>No, if water appears due to your weight its casual water. You can't "press"
>out water though.
>Gustaf

USGA: 1992 Rules of Golf: Rule 25:

"Casual water" is any temporary accumulation of water on the course
which is visible before or after the player takes his stance and is
not in a water hazard.
From: bll@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Brad Loney)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Wide-body drivers
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:45:34 GMT
Organization: Loral WDL

In article <fragante.716142551@unixg.ubc.ca>, fragante@unixg.ubc.ca (Gv Fragante) writes:
> 
> In <1992Sep10.155209.5586@wdl.loral.com> bll@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Brad Loney) writes:
> 
> >I tried several types of drivers at the range.  I ended up purchasing the
> >Mid-Size Taylor Made driver 10.5 degrees loft.  This driver is a little more
> >conventional then say the "Big Bertha".  The biggest advantage of a larger 
> 
> Well, please tell me more about the System 2 Mid-size driver. I was trying one
> at the golf shop the other day and was impressed with the sound and feel of
> the head - very *unlike* the typical 'tink' sound of the Callaways. It felt
> and sounded more like a persimmon wood than a metal wood. Did you get one with
> a graphite shaft ?
> 
> Also, anyone out there tried the new Cleveland Classic Launcher that is
> another Big Bertha knock-off ?
> 
> 
I purchased the Mid-size Taylor Made driver 10.5 with the graphite shaft 
(Regular Stiffness).  They also have a 8.5 and 9.5 lofts also.
The graphite shaft is 1/2" longer that the steel shaft.
I purchased the graphite because I don't buy golf clubs that often.  I said
to myself "What the Hell, you only live once."


Personally I don't notice a lot of difference between a steel and graphite
shaft.  The graphite is $100 more.  The graphite does impress your golf friends
and foes.

If you have a good swing, the steel shaft will still provide you with a great 
drive.  Unless your sold on graphite, invest the $100 in your local golf pro.

Taylor Made products are built with high quality.  Unfortunately the're never
on sale (at least in my area).

Good Luck,
(see you in two weeks, I'm on vacation !)
Brad Loney
From: jlangfor@alsvid.une.edu.au (Joseph Langford)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Rules poser
Date: 14 Sep 92 09:38:37 GMT
Organization: University of New England - Northern Rivers (Lismore)

From article <1992Sep10.153319.2114@mmm.serc.3m.com>, by us267384@mmm.serc.3m.com (Steven M. Anastasi):
> From article <ILH.92Sep10094136@winnie-the-pooh.lcs.mit.edu>, by ilh@lcs.mit.edu (Lee Hetherington):
>> According to Rule 25-1b regarding taking relief from casual water...
>> 
>> (ii) In a Hazard [not water hazard]: If the ball lies in or touches a
>>      hazard, the player shall lift and drop the ball either:
>> 
>>   (a) without penalty, in the hazard, as near as possible to the spot
>>       where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole, on ground which
>>       affords maximum available relief from the condition; or
>>   (b) under penalty of one stroke, outside the hazard, keeping the
>>       point where the ball lay directly between the hole and the spot
>>       on which the ball is dropped.
>> 
>> So, take relief in the bunker with no penalty, or drop outside
>> (behind) it with a one stroke penalty.
>>
> 
> What defines "casual water".  Can an extremely rain soaked sand 
> qualify as "casual water" even though there is no liquid on the
> surface of the sand.  What about if the water is visible when 
> you stand in the sand but then disipates in a few seconds.

The definition of casual water is water that can be visibly seen prior
to the addressing of the ball. Therefore if you walk into a bunker and 
water appears due to the pressure of your weight, this is not casual
water 
> I HATE hitting our of wet soggy sand.
> 
> -- 
> Steve Anastasi	
> smanastasi@mmm.com
> St. Paul, Minnesota
-- 
Joseph Langford  Internet:  jlangfor@loki.une.edu.au   Phone:  +61 66 ????????
    University of New England, Northern Rivers (Lismore) NSW Australia
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: john@meaddata.com (John Manion)
Subject: Re: Wide-body drivers
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:51:46 GMT

In article <lauu70INN9qu@deimos.cs.utexas.edu>, mahoney@cs.utexas.edu (J. Jeff Mahoney) writes:
|> 
|> Just my 2 sense.  I have no ties with Cleveland, but I love their driver.
|> -- 
|>  jeff mahoney   e-mail: mahoney@cs.utexas.edu   compuserve: 70243,3525  ***

How much was it?
Whats it made of, etc, etc.
Where can I get one?

Thanks for the info.
-- 
|John T Manion      | What I like about    |                 (513) 865-1773|   
|Mead Data Central  | Beer is you basically|   Legal Collection Engineering|
|P.O. Box 933       | Drink it, then you   |              john@meaddata.com|
|Dayton, Ohio  45401| order another one... |        ...!uunet!meaddata!john|
                             -- Dave Barry


From: ian@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Ian Watson)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 13:37:58 GMT
Subject: Re: Rules poser
Organization: Hewlett-Packard ISG-SBU-PWD, UK.