HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Racist Webster's New World Encyclopedia
Date: 1 Oct 92 04:21:14 GMT
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science


   > Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:

   ... of course it's silly to believe that Asians have just as many famous
   people as blacks in America ...

   That was my point. My real point is for all the blacks who complain that
   US History is mostly white is to see that no ethnic group can simply
   claim x% of US history simply because of their race. 

   [much subsequent drivel of the same ilk deleted]

Arthur, I just have one question: Do you really think that your
statement in between the dots is an accurate representation of what I
and others said in response to your original posting?  

If you do, then I think your capacity for understanding viewpoints
other than your own is so severely impaired that you probably need
professional help.

If you don't, then I think you are an incredibly cynical and
weak-minded person, setting up a straw man instead of dealing with
what people actually said.

It aggravates me that you can make useful contributions at times and
at other times lapse into this kind of lunatic Dwight Joe mode.  At
least if you were a consistent jerk, I could just put you in a kill
file and be done.

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: m-muyot@uiuc.edu (Maria Muyot)
Subject: Re: Is it in the Genes?
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, University of illinois
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 02:15:08 GMT

In article <66955@cup.portal.com>, Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com wrote:
> 
> What does Mr. Arthur Hu think? I'm open to all possibilities, and there 
> are some interesting things that indicate Asians just might be genetically
                                                       
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^    
> smarter, though there's no hard proof. Asian immigrants get the same


"Might", in this case, is the operative word. There could be a million
(okay,
so I exaggerate) other things that could explain this result. Just because
a
certain characteristic is common among those who scored higher doesn't
mean that this characteristic is the cause. Unless they can pinpoint to
the exact gene or conduct an experiment where *all* conditions are held
constant over the groups being compared except race, then you can't really
say that it is with high probability, "in the genes." And for it to be
absolutely certain, the study would need to involve the entire human
population
of this planet (or more, if you're counting non-human races)--not an easy
task.


> Math SAT scores as the American Born. American Asians score just as high
> on math tests as students in Taiwan and Korea, about 2 years ahead of
> whites (blacks are 4 years behind). Arthur Jensen tested Asian youngsters
> in Oakland who are mostly poor, and they still scored higher than white
> youngsters in most of the IQ tests they were given. If you ask Mr. Jensen
> (I have) is it genetic, he'll say there's no proof. But he'll then say
> there's loads of evidence that points in that direction before he stops
> at it definitely being genetic. My view of intelligence is that it's like
> money - it's a measure of something you have today. It may not be a good
> measure of how much you'll have tomorrow, or how much you are geneticaally
> predisposed to have it.
> 

What does being genetically Asian mean,anyway? So I have a great-great
grandfather who's Chinese from my maternal grandfather's side, 
a great-great grandmother who's French from my maternal grandmother's side,

and according to my father, their family is part Spanish and French, 
and all sides are mixed with Malay. Does this make me less Asian than my
roommate who's parents are both from Shanghai? That's not fair, I was born
in Asia and I've lived there for 19 years, while he has lived all of his
life
in New Jersey! So I'm brown and I sunburn, does this mean that I am also
more likely to be less intelligent than he is???
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go)
Subject: Re: Hoyt Sze will be on TV!
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, Rice University
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 23:11:31 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.172242.22521@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>The Montel Williams Show is just 1 of several brainless talk shows:
>Vicki!, Oprah, Geraldo, Rivers, Jerry Springer (?), Whoopi plus 1, etc.
>Donahue may not be quite that brainless, though.
>
>Speaking of Mr. Sze, I suspect that he is a Chinese-cu demagogue.

As you would say, how would you know he's Chinese-cu?  Have you met him?

Perhaps we need a new term: Dwight-cu.  Any suggestions for formally defining
this term?

>One of the better ways to respond to his "intellectual" columns
>is to write one calling for marrages between Western-cu men and
>Chinese-cu women from China.  This should sufficiently infuriate him
>to let him know that "we" are "on to him".

If you feel so strongly about this, why don't *you* write a column about this?
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:9224 soc.culture.asean:6367 soc.culture.korean:4522
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Subject: Re: Genetic question misunderstood
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:31:35 GMT

   wung@eecom.gatech.edu (Peter Wung) writes:

   To discuss this matter in academe for the sake of learning is one
   thing, because although academe is also full of uninformed opinions
   and cultural biases that are harmful, there is at least some form of
   self policing going on that weeds out the more outrageous claims.
   Whereas in our forum, ther is no policing of the facts, and I don't
   believe there are that many anthropological geneticists in this group.

I liked most of what you wrote, but I found this confusing.  Do you
think that only anthropological geneticists are qualified to discuss
questions of race?

To dispute a different point, my impression is that the "policing of
facts" is generally more efficient in newsgroups than it is in my
corner of academia.  On a couple of occasions I've misremembered
"facts" in other newsgroups, and the wrath of the better-informed fell
upon me quickly.  As a result, I try not to make claims on the net
unless I'm prepared to back them up if I'm flamed.  I've attended a
few seminars that had the same feeding-frenzy quality as Usenet, but
generally I've found that people are much more likely to let errors go
in talks or lectures than on the net.

It's true that there's no "policing of the facts" on the net in the
sense of an Officially Endorsed View of Reality, but I think that's an
advantage.

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american
From: cwm54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Racist Webster's New World Encyclopedia
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 14:53:18 GMT




>
>If the editorial staff had blacks and whites, but no Asians, are Asians
>justified in calling blacks racist because they did not include Asian
>Americans?
>
>Arthur Hu



   Arthur, you'll find that if there are blacks in such positions they have


  most likely been chosen because they are innocuos. In general blacks

  would like a closer relationship with other minorities but as Gabrielle

  said, other minorities are melded into white society "leaving us behind"

  and adapting their negative views of us. Unfortunately, many Asians

  fall into that mode of thinking that says," We came over here not even

  knowing how to speak english but with hard work...if you guys would just

  ..."  Sure, Asians and other peoples have been despised, overcoming

  tremendous obstacles BUT no other group has had to deal with the baggage

  of "inferiority" that we have been tagged with since our arrival. I would

  much rather fight being labelled "the model minority". White America

  has pitted us against each other by comparing the perceived super

  successes of the Asian community against the black plight. This is like

  comparing apples and oranges since 1) Anyone coming halfway around the world

  is HIGHLY motivated and desperate to make things work here, 2)I have talked

  to "foreigners" who think this is the greatest country in the world

  because RELATIVELY speaking they are better off than they were and not

  at the bottom of the totem pole.(that place is reserved for "us")

      The good news is some people are beginning to at least admit there

  is a serious racism problem here. The bad news is that those same people

  dilute that seriousness by using that oldest of arguements, "everybody is

  doing it."


					  Carlyle



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------



	       These views are mine only and not those of CAS.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.asean,soc.culture.korean
From: kytan@mantra.fia.dmg.ml.com (Kok-Yong Tan)
Subject: Re: Have no need to fear ... was Re: Freedom of Speech
Organization: Organised?  Here?  Hahahahahahahaha.....
	<1992Sep22.221303.10884@leland.Stanford.EDU>
	<KYTAN.92Sep24111927@mantra.fia.dmg.ml.com>
	<1992Sep26.232656.23607@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:22:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep26.232656.23607@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

>Let's do some word substitution.  Chinese culture <-> Nazism
>800 million <-> 40 million.  So, in 1939, we have Mr. Tan saying,
>
>   Screaming about obliterating Nazism (a culture that has
>   close to 40 million adherents) is pissing in the wind at best.
>
>Yes.  That would be the sort of stuff that a Chinese-cu would say.
>I suspect that the victims of Nazism think differently as do victims
>of Chinese-cu culture.

Well, I am also Chinese-ge (by your terminology.)  My point about not being
able to obliterate so many adherents is a mere fact.  I'm not particularly
enamoured of the way the Tian An Men protest was put down or that it was put
down at all but you seem to want to instigate your own form of "ethnic
cleansing" which anyone who doesn't agree with you is subject to.  Who is the
Nazi, now?

>By the way, being right is not a popularity contest.  (not that a
>Chinese-cu or a Nazi could understand....)

Different people have different concepts of what is right.  You have the
FREEDOM to be right in your own mind just as I have a similar FREEDOM to be
right in mine.  You seem to want to shove your concept of "rightness" down
other peoples throats, thus depriving others of this "right."  Calling me a
Nazi is your right to free speech and I will not dispute that, however wrong
you may be in my and many other's eyes.  "Sticks and stones will break my bones
but names will never hurt me." 

--
===============================================================================
Kok-Yong Tan, 			  	| My words are my own: 
Fixed Income Analytics Group, 	  	| My bosses know naught.
Merrill Lynch,			  	| Wherever they're sown,
World Financial Center, North Tower, 	| Just I should be sought.
New York, NY 10281-1315.	  	|		- K. Y. Tan, 5 Feb 1992
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
InterNet: kytan@fia.dmg.ml.com (Merrill Lynch)
	  75046.256@compuserve.com (CompuServe)
===============================================================================
From: db6j+@andrew.cmu.edu (Douglas S. Brashear)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: China in the mid 30's
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:11:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.welxRsG00UhW89GXxA
Organization: Junior, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Hi everyone...I usually sit on the sidelines and read this group for
info, but now I need to ask a question...
I am doing a presentation for one of my classes concerning the
novel,"The Lover" by Marguerite Duras (course: Discoursive Practices;
book: not my choosing)...

now the question:
Can anyone further enlighten me on the attitudes and opinions held by
Chinese mainlanders (particularly in Shanghai) toward foreigners
(French) in the mid 1930's. This includes relationships between Chinese
and American's (particularly Chinese man, French woman.  Also, any
insight concerning the novel itself would serve great purpose!

It would be hugely appreciated if you could reply ASAP, as info is
needed very soon! Please respond directly to me or if you want to post
it too, then 'cc' me!

1,000 Thanks!
DOUG
Douglas Brashear
db6j+@andrew.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: hirota@sluggo.sdsc.edu (Bryan Hirota)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Dead Girl in Japan
Date: 29 Sep 1992 22:15:08 GMT
Organization: San Diego Supercomputer Center
NNTP-Posting-Host: sluggo.sdsc.edu


I pulled the following from Soc.culture.japan.

There has been some talk about this person on this group, so
it may or may not be relavent.

Enjoy.

================================================================================
Bryan Hirota
hirota@sdsc.edu
================================================================================

From network.ucsd.edu!swrinde!gatech!rutgers!cmcl2!hsdndev!rehir Tue Sep 29 15:11:13 PDT 1992
Article: 7393 of soc.culture.japan
From: rehir@gauss.med.harvard.edu (Hirokatsu Watanabe 432-2275)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: girl that dies in school gate
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:14:01 GMT
Organization: Harvard Medical School
Status: R


  davev@bnr.ca (David Villeneuve) wrote:
>   I recall hearing about this from a JET Teacher around September
>   of 1989.  The story I heard was that the girl was late for school,
>   and the teachers were thought to have shoved the gate/door against
>   her to teach her a lesson.  

>   Hmmm. I hope this is not indicative of discipline in the Japanese
>   school system....

   Excuse me. You should mistake 'Totsuka Yacht School' or something
similar for it. This incident happened in 1990. It's not related to
discipline.
   Please read the following article from 'Asahi' English Newspaper.
 
TITLE: Teacher Submitted Report to Pref. Education Board
 
SOURCE:Asahi Evening News/July 19, 1990, Thursday
       COMLINE-AEN/No. 1
LOAD:  July 19, 1990, Thursday
WORDS:   325
 
BODY:
   The 39-year-old teacher who closed the heavy iron gate,
crushing to death 15-year-old Ryoko Ishida, a first-year student at
Takatsuka Senior High School in Kobe City on July 6, had submitted
a three-page handwritten report on the incident to the Hyogo Prefectural
Board of Education, it was learned Wednesday.
   According to the report, dated July 10, the teacher stood in front
of the school gate from around 8:25 a.m. on July 6, using a megaphone to
urge the students to hurry. He then moved to a position inside the gate.
   He prepared to close the gate at 30 seconds before 8:30 a.m. Looking
at his wristwatch, he began a countdown, "Ten, nine, eight..." He
shouted, "Five seconds to go. I'm going to shut the gate]" He explained
that he closed the gate when the chimes began to sound at 8:30 a.m.
   It is believed his voice was not heard by the students since
he was about 10 meters from the students trying to pass through the gate.
   As for what happened when Ishida was crushed, he wrote, "A
male student got his bag or foot caught between the gate
and wall but forcibly pulled it out and entered the school
grounds, so I pushed the gate against the wall. I went up to the
male student to tell him to go outside, when someone said,
'Teacher, she's bleeding]' and that was the first time I saw a
girl lying on the ground outside the gate."
   As for why he closed the gate with such force, he said that
once he had had the gate pushed back by students.
   Meanwhile, Ishida's parents Wednesday issued the following
comment through their lawyer, Isao Hiraguri, in Kobe: "To us as
parents, the killing was much too brutal and devastatingly tragic.
The school's reponsibility for the accident is clear, and we feel
deep anger."
   The parents have not left their home, the father not going to
work, still in shock.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
 
*******************************
*     Hirokatsu Watanabe      *
*******************************
From: timlee@public.btr.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Census report
Date: 26 Sep 92 04:52:04 GMT
Reply-To: timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american

kemnitz@netcom.com (Greg Kemnitz) writes:
|In article <1992Sep22.140215.9598@jho.com> john@jho.com (John Ho) writes:
|>
|>According to American Demographics magazine Oct, 1990 issue:
|>
|>The median household income of Asian American was $31,578 in 1988, compared
|>with $28,661 for non-Hispanics whites, $20,000 for Hispanics and $16,004
|>for blacks. 32% of the Asian-American households have income of $50,000
|>or more, compared with only 29% of non-white Hispanics.  Also, 21% of
|>Asians have completed four years of college, verus only 13% of all Americans.
|
|$50K/year (in California at least, where many AA's live) is a pretty modest
|income, especially if it is *household* income.  That would not be enough to
|buy a house in the city areas in most of California.

Maybe a purchasing power comparison may be more relevant, since Asian
American people do tend to live in the more expensive parts of the
country.  In California, you can save up $50K to put a downpayment
on a house; in some other parts of the country, you can just buy
the house for that amount.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee                 timlee@btr.com  ...!decwrl!btr!timlee
This message comes with no warranty, not even an implied warranty of
fitness for any particular purpose.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin)
Subject: Readership hype was Re: S.C.A.A. Read
Originator: achin@math
Organization: Texas A&M University, Dept of Mathematics
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 05:16:15 GMT

I think the worldwide readership figures are overblown,
simply because there aren't a lot of people outside the
United States who even know Asian-Americans exist, let
alone give a flip about their concerns and issues.
And thus far I have yet to locate *one* Asian-American
expat.  It'll be lonely out there (again) in February,
when I move to London....

So I figure the readership figure is much closer to 1200
than 55,000.  Much much closer.

>sigh<
-- 
Andrew Chin    Dept. of Math.    Texas A&M U.    College Station, TX 77843
achin@math.tamu.edu   Probably not TAMU's exact opinions.   (409) 845-0261
                * Fighting racism is not a special interest *
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:9322 ca.politics:8324
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,ca.politics
Subject: Re: Republicans vs. Centrists?
Date: 1 Oct 92 15:17:09 GMT
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science


   Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:

   My son is officially one year old this month [....]
   I can't wait until he's old enough to learn
   conservatism.

I can't wait until he turns into your nightmare of a bleeding-heart
liberal.  Seriously, as one parent to another, watch out about trying
to turn him into a little clone of yourself.  It'll do neither of you
any good.

I started to respond to the rest of your ravings, but then I decided
I'd just work myself into a bad mood.  Suffice it to say that you are
seriously deluded if you demonize the Democrats as "the left" instead
of realizing that they share most of their agenda with the
Republicans.  Looking at the Libertarians and Greens makes it pretty
clear that the Demopublicans are two wings of one big-government,
corporatist, economic-growth-at-all-costs party.

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Is it in the Genes?
Date: 5 Oct 92 22:40:26 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Sep27.041723.21804@seas.gwu.edu> claypool@seas.gwu.edu (Hyok H. Lee) writes:
>How is it that Asians do relatively well in the SAT when blacks do not?!
>The cultural bias  of the exams do not apply since most of the 
>Asians retain a part of their original culture, while the blacks are
>born into this culture.

Most Asian parents try to get their children to speak and read in the
"standard" (notice the quotes) variation of English and place a heavy
emphasis on academic skills.  This counts more than anything else in
doing well on the SAT.  

>Believed by  whom?  I believe Marco Polo discovered how advanced
>the Chinese a very long time ago.  I guess it's a matter of how
>you define "not too long ago."

In the 1200's, when Europe was a backwater and China was at one of its
peaks, Marco Polo talked about how advanced the Chinese were.  In the
1800's, when the West was domainant and China was having serious
problems, everyone talked about how inferior Chinese were.  I'm sure
that in two hundred years when Sub-Saharan Africa gets it's turn to be
the world's biggest power, they'll be people who will talk aout how
Africans are superior.

>:Interestingly, researcher have found, by a battery of test, that
>Australian aboriginal childrean tended to be better than white children
>in finding a trail after seeing once, although they were all raised in
>the same environment.

References please?  How did the researchers determine "same
environment"?

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,ca.politics
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Republicans vs. Centrists?
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 00:17:49 GMT

In article <67265@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
>...
>I've got no statistics either way. Some Asians do abuse their spouses, but
>there's not much evidence either way that it's any more or less than for
>whites. The divorce rate for Asians is only half that for whites though.
>Either it means Asian marriages are happier, or they're keeping it inside,
>or both. Asians do have an extremely low rate of child abuse compared to
>other races.

I beg to differ.  This last statement depends on the cultural group
of the Asians; Chinese-cu have a much greater predilection for child
abuse than other Asians-cu.

If child abuse laws were more effectively enforced, a lot more Chinese-cu
parents would be going to jail, and a lot more Chinese-cu children would
be helped.  Alas, the idiotic and totally untrue "model minority" myth,
which has been promoted by certain Chinese-(cu-)Americans, has convinced
a lot of people to turn a blind eye to reality.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                 Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3 | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------