From: dchatterjee@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Idols RE: Why did Muhammad Break Temples
Date: 18 Dec 92 15:56:37 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <18DEC199214065409@rosie.uh.edu>, mece21x@rosie.uh.edu 
(Yesudas, Michael) writes:
> In article <1992Dec18.145430.3979@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, rroy@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Raja R Roy) writes...
> 
>> It is said that those who know don't see any world but god himself. Hence,
>> God can be represented by anything in this world, because nothing is 
>> profane or sacred in this world, according to Hinduism.
> 
> I confess ignorance here. There is a question that comes to my mind, I thought
> that many things were held sacred in Hinduism. Are idols of worship sacred?
> Was cow held as a sacred animal at any time? Many times I have seen people
> making money out of "sacred" bulls in many parts of India.

 The worship of idols are *not* sacred. A truly "Hindu" idea of life and also
 the associated divinity is associated with the concept of Karma. Worship is
 not sacred. The Bhagavat Gita defines emancipation of human soul and its final
 merge with the Eternal Force of Bliss via Karma (Deed). What is therefore idol
 worship ? Just as Raja has defined, idols are symbols of the forces of Nature,
 or equivalently a form of the Omnipotent Force surrounding the whole Universe.
 It is generally thought (though not a general concept), that "kriya" (action)
 and Karma (deed) are the same. This is a totally wrong concept. Thus while
 worship of idols is a kriya, it *does not* define your Karma. To be releived
 of the mundane bonds you will have to perform the correct Karma. Historically
 modes of worship (different kriya) were introduced in different times to 
 obtain the same Karma. Who defines Karma ? Your conscience. Please remember
 that Hindus are obliged to listen to their conscience and *not* to gurus or
 any other people, canons etc. Thus, Hindus worshipping idols essentially 
 imply that they are worshipping the forces of the Almighty. I havs also seen
 in India people making money out of the sacred bulls. I think the answer is
 implementation of GOI rules. There is no stricture in the "Holy Books" that
 can restrict GOI from arresting this religious buisness. Vikramaditya had
 done this many times in the past. (I am quoting this in order to answer any
 bigoted Hindu religious zealots - who place in inerrancy in the actions.)   

> 
>>   My problem is not with the philosophies. The problem is who the f*** 
>> you are to impose your philosophy on others. Who the f*** gave you the
>> right to break temples? Breaking of other's places of worship has been
>> characteristic of Islam right from the beginning starting with the prophet
>> of Islam himself. You muslims did not feel the pain then, but now that
>> power is no longer with muslims and your places of worship are being
>> broken then you are crying hoarse. As you sow, so you reap. That is the
>> law of nature.
>>

 Here Raja is essentially talking about Karma. The whole of the Mahabharata is
 based on Karma or the Deed. Kriya is a secondary, artificial and is not at all
 an act of the good. There are enormous examples that can be told where this
 distinction has been elaborated.   
> 
> Same applies to us too. Over 50 temples have already been fully or partially
> destroyed in reaction to the breaking of Babri Masjid. Most of these are in
> Bangladesh and Pakistan. 3 or 4 in Afghanistan, 1 in Dubai, 1 in England.
> In one case of destruction 7 people including 6 women were burnt inside a 
> temple. In another "stray" incident in Pakistan, 6 Hindu kids, under the
> age of 10 were stoned to death. Are you saying that only Muslims feel the
> pain now? If one of those kids happened to be your younger brother or kid
> sister or if one of those women happened to be your mom, you would be thinking
> a lot different now. Like your "who the f***" will possibly change to "what
> the f***"....
> 
>> Raja   
>> 
> 
> Sincerely
> Michael

  BTW, according to Hindu philosophy Jesus Christ (PBUH) preached the concept
  of Karma and Bhakti (Deed and Faith). (The famous prayer of Christ is an
  example.) Islam is merely a summation of rules (kriya) and contains the
  command of placing unquestionable faith in the Supreme Will (Al-Islam). While
  Hindus place no discontent on the latter part (Supreme Will), the way I might
  do it is most likely to be different than yours. Consequently, the ancient
  Hindus preached *tolerance* - upon realizing this. Christianity does the same
  thing - maybe the followers of Christ were misguided - upon having not been
  able to understand His subtle Divine Message.

  In conclusion, one must assert that considering the present circumstances,
  that Mahommedans (Muslims) had for centuries wrongly tried to impose the
  set of action (kriya) that *they* wanted to follow. (I am not sure how this
  could be permitted granted that Islam also implies the Holy Peace.) Thus in
  view of the circumstances, Hindus are obliged to protect themselves from the
  pampered Muslim minority in India as protecting what I believe is my right
  Karma and by all theories of principles of ethics, we (Hindus) must try to
  protect ourselves and demand fair share of the rules. This can be done in a
  democratic manner - amicable solution - desired by everyone. But, Muslims are
  determined to implement the law of the Sharia - which we Hindus and other
  religious groups feel quite is unacceptable to us. 
 
  I hope this blotches out some of your doubts.

   - deb chatterjee
  (a good samaritan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.tamil