From: gds@york.cs.ucla.edu (Greg Skinner)
Subject: Re: Styling, profiling and pretending
Originator: gds@york.cs.ucla.edu
Reply-To: gds@cs.ucla.edu (Greg Skinner)
Organization: in your face!
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 23:56:49 GMT

In article <1ebs92INNp0o@morrow.stanford.edu> HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.210117.6639@osf.org>,
>kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup) writes:
>>If I read you right, on day one, you want me to come out and say "I don't
>>think I'll be falling in love with you. I'll treat you right, but don't
>>get any ideas, OK? I'm not ready for a real c*mm*tm*nt. If something happens
>>to happen, well that will be our lucky day."
>>Why I should be lucky to get a firm handshake after that confession, much
>>less spend some time with someone I obviously would like to is left as an
>>exercise for the reader. Sistahs (and I would assume other races of women)
>>just don't go for that.
>Sorry, but there are some women (right here), black or otherwise,
>who would be grateful for such a pronouncement.  I don't think I'm
>alone on this.

No, I'm sure you're not alone on this.  Yet, there are women who would
think a guy was crazy to make a proclamation like that, on day one,
and wouldn't want to have anything to do with the guy any more.  It's
too bad we can't wear signs that say "The falling in love type", or
"The wanna have fun type", or "The we'll take it a day at a time type" 
(that's the category I fall into).  (Even if we did wear signs like
that, they wouldn't always, or exactly, describe our feelings at the
moment.)

People make mistakes sometimes.  I didn't go into the relationship
intending to hurt my ex.  You, Gabrielle, make it sound like I had
ulterior motives in staying with my ex.  I disagree.  You are entitled
to your opinion, though.  I guess we will have to agree to disagree on
this.

>>But consider this- who's got the better grasp on reality- the one
>>who comes into something expecting it to be great, and will
>>probably be eventually disappointed, or the one who's just "there"
>>and it turns out to be great.
>Why waste anybody's time, brother man.  Time's a wastin for women
>wanting commitment.

Sometimes, in a relationship where there is an unequal balance in
feelings, it takes time for the other person's feelings to catch up.
If this happens, maybe they will make a commitment, maybe not.
The person who's waiting for commitment, IMHO, is responsible for
assessing whether it is worth the wait, *especially if* they've told
the other person that they don't mind the unequal balance of feelings.

Also, a relationship where there is an unequal balance in feelings is
not inherently bad.  It is still possible to have fun and good times
with your SO, even if they do not feel for you exactly what you feel
for them.  In general, a relationship isn't inherently bad unless
there is some kind of deception going on (lying, sneaking behind the
other's back, etc.) or some kind of abuse.

(This is to distinguish from a relationship where one or more parties
aren't happy.  I acknowledge that my ex wasn't happy, but there was no
way I could have known this, because she insisted that she was.)

>>Please share some of what you're on if you expect me to be alone just
>>because I'm not in love with someone....I know there's more to your
>>statement than what I'm reading- please expound.
>Simple, brother.  Find a sister you simply want to have fun
>with, but who is NOT looking for commitment.  And I am not talking
>about hos. There are some level-headed young women, educated, who
>like adventure. They are there.

If someone says they are not looking for commitment, are they:
   * truly not looking for commitment, or
   * looking for commitment, but not willing to say so, unless they're
     pressured into saying so?
and how would you propose that someone figure this out, if they've
insisted that they're not looking for commitment?

>Furthermore, it's how much power you give over to a person which
>indicates the tenor of the relationship. If you want to hand the
>sister a whip, mental or physical, go right ahead. Unequal
>relationships don't make it at all for anyone.

You and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this as well.  You
have as much power in a relationship as you are willing to retain.

Finally, to comment on something you said about men being scared of
love, commitment, etc.  Just speaking for myself here, I'm not scared
of it.  When I feel it, I say it.  I've been burned, too (in love with
someone who didn't love me).  I don't fault the other person for being
unable to figure out my mind.

There are some valid reasons why people are scared of love,
commitment, etc.: still hurting from a past relationship, been abused
by a loved one, parents had a troubled marriage, etc.  If these people
are honest about how they feel about love, commitment, etc., I don't
see why they should be denied relationships -- perhaps they would grow
to love the person they're with.

I still would like to hear some other opinions, in posts or email.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american