HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen)
Subject: Re: Braves in Fulton for '93?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:38:43 GMT

 ISTRE-A@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU opines:

  >While I have never been to FCS, on TV, it looks like a pretty decent ball
  >park to me.

 and then bm562@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard L. Trionfo) adds:

  >I heard somewhere that the Braves will be moving to the new 
  >Olympic Stadium they are building for the '96 games.  I do
  >not know when they are moving, but they said it will not be
  >a baseball monstrocity that Olympic Stadium in Montreal has
  >been described as (I am just going on commentary, never been
  >there).

Having been to both, I'll agree that the Atlanta ball yard is a decent place
to watch a game, but it is stamped out of concrete with the same cookie-cutter
that was used for St Louis, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh. To me,
those five stadiums are indistinguishable from one another.

Olympic Stadium (Montreal) is certainly unique. It is absolutely the worst
park on the planet for watching a game. The seats are miles from the field,
the place is drab and boring inside, and it is hot and steamy. If I'm
going to be it a sweatbath, at least let it be outdoors. And don't even
get me started on the arrogance of the French (Canadians).On the upside,
from an architectural viewpoint, it is absolutely gorgeous from the outside,
and the access (parking/subway) is first rate. 

--->Paul, ballpark aficionado


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  If you're tempted to think of the French as sophisticated, just
  remember that they worship Jerry Lewis.

  paula@koufax.cv.hp.com   Paul Andresen  Hewlett-Packard  (503)-750-3511

    home: 3006 NW McKinley    Corvallis, OR 97330       (503)-752-8424
                            A SABR member since 1979
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: THE BRAVES WIN!!! THE BRAVES WIN!!!!
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:27:37 GMT

In article <26395@oasys.dt.navy.mil> kday@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Kevin Day) writes:
>
>  I think Leyland's basic thought (and I agree) was that a tiring Doug
>Drabeck, is better than almost anyone he could bring out of the bullpen.

Belinda wasn't *that* ineffective.  Though the umpire was squeezing
him.  And how about Wakefield?  Tomlin?  This season, Drabek's ERA was
only 30 points below that of Walk, Belinda, and Smith (who was
injured, I guess?).  He looked bad enough in the previous innings,
that I doubt his true ERA at that point was lower than 4.00.  The
Pirates have lots of pitchers better than that, and thanks to
Wakefield's performance the previous night, they were *all* available.

Drabek shoulda been relieved.

-Valentine
-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
From: Michael.W.Kidd@dartmouth.edu (Michael W. Kidd)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Blue Jay vs A's
Date: 9 Oct 92 20:26:42 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

Can someone please email me the score of the Blue Jay v. Oakland game...
From: tj06+@andrew.cmu.edu (Thomas J. Joyce)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Ripped on strikes
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:05:32 GMT
Organization: Administrative Systems, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I definitely think Drabek, and moreover Belinda were ripped on one or
two strikes. Carrero (Sp?) should have been called out on strikes, IMHO.
But hey, that's baseball. You take what you get. Like any sport, the
best team doesn't always win.

And yes, I wish Stanley Steamer hadn't been put in. All he has is heat,
and questionable heat at that. At least Leyland didn't go to Mason ;-)

Oh well, until next year.....
This one smarts as much as the Bob Moose wild pitch

Congrats Braves, you dodged a bullet. You'll need all the luck you
can muster agains the Jays.

Go Jays! Take it to those chop-heads and bring home the Series trophy
to Toronto. Hell, if we can win their Stanley Cup......

tom
(Writing from the City of Champions, Pittsburgh)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Citecheck Hell)
Subject: Butler
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 02:30:11 GMT

In article <BvtJtn.K2D@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets) writes:
>>Barry Bonds would have been the best batting leadoff this year, but only
>>counting players who did bat leadoff, call it a tie between Roberts and
>>Butler.
>>
>No way, sorry.  As someone else previously posted, Butler has been a pretty
>damn selfish player.  Sure, he bunts for base-hits often enough, but his 
>team was so far behind so often that many of these came in positions that 
>only Butler's stats were boosted.

So what *should* Butler do after lack of Dodger hitting and pitching and
fielding has put his team behind?  Call for the end of the game under
the softball slaughter rule?

I agree that Roberts is a better hitter than Butler.  And now that
I look at the stats, I'll even buy the better leadoff-man argument.

Times on base under their own power:
		Butler		Roberts
First:		 174		  130
Second:		  55		   78
Third:		  11		    6
Home:		   3		    4
Outs:		 403		  376 

Someone can calculate the marginal run issues -- just eyeballing that, it
looks like Roberts has slightly the better of it, plus is somewhat more
valuable on defense. 
-- 
ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu 
also at quibeaux@uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
ajax crypto-analyzer -- warning! remove all chicken bones first
From: kubey@sgi.com (Ken Kubey)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Was Bream Out?
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:12:43 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA

I watched it frame by frame and it sure looked like Bream's heel
hit the plate and was 4 or 5 inches into the plate before the 
glove touched him.

I was amazed that CBS couldn't come up with some better replays.
Where was that great overhead shot of the plate?
And we haven't seen any decent shots of Bond's pickup and throw.

To Pirate fans:  Hang in there, you'll feel better again in 
                 a couple weeks.

IMHO, Francisco Cabrera should have been the NLCS MVP.  His hit was
worth a monsterous 3,200,000 Kubey clutch points.  Easily, the most
clutch single I have ever seen and quite possibly, the most clutch
hit of all-time (certainly in the top 5).

It's hard to imagine a more exciting play in such a big game.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name:       Ken Kubey  or  QB   |  Reading, editing or printing of this text
Address:    kubey@sgi.com       |  without the express written consent of
Disclaimer: the usual           |  Major League Baseball is prohibited.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sfh@po.CWRU.Edu (Steven F. Hubbard)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: NL OPI Final
Date: 7 Oct 1992 17:32:41 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: sfh@po.CWRU.Edu (Steven F. Hubbard)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, schmke@cco.caltech.edu (Kevin Todd Schmidt) says:

>      0.74*1B + 1.28*2B + 1.64*3B + 2.25*HR + 0.53*BB + 0.34*(SB-2*CS)
>OPI = ----------------------------------------------------------------
>                              AB - H
>
>BA = H / AB
>
>SLG = (H + 2B + 2*3B + 3*HR) / AB
>
>OBA = (H + BB) / (AB + BB)
>

  Specifically, what is OPI designed to measure?  I know what BA, SLG, and
OBP mean, but this OPI formula is.  It looks like something/outs, but what
is that something?

  Along the same lines, what does OPS measure?  It takes two quantities that
I understand, and combines them into some master number.  Having read this
group off and on for a couple years, I've started ranking players offensively
by OPS because it seems to put the correct names at the top of the list --
Bonds, Thomas, etc.  Is there some specific skill besides the rather vague
sounding "skill at batting" being measured?

SfH 


-- 
Steven F. Hubbard                 **  It's like Deja vu  
Case Western Reserve University   **              all over again. 
Department of Physics             ** 
Cleveland, OH 44106               **                   Yogi Berra
From: king@cogsci.ucsd.EDU (Jonathan King)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: DEEP DRIVE DERBY UPDATE SOON! (was Re: * 1992 Prediction Results *)
Summary: it's finally (almost) safe to sit in those outfield bleachers
Keywords: binaca, blast, deep drive derby, fat balls, homers, blasts
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:28:57 GMT
Organization: Binaca Blast Deep Drive Research Institute

First off, thanks again to the Gary The Wonder Weasel Boy Huckabay for
his wonderful year end tribute to our not so wonderful predictions.  I
could have *sworn* he said that the Mariners for first and the A's for
last in the AL West, but he who has the predictions knows all...

Anyway, what's *really* important is that I now know the winners of
the 1992 Binaca Blast Deep Drive Derby!  AND the winner of the 1992
JACK-PAC!

But I won't tell you!  Make that: I won't tell you yet.  I first need
to assemble the rest of the update, which may include some material
from somebody in the Davis, CA area, if he should catch my drift.  (If
he doesn't, then my cheerful e-mail reminder will.)

In the mean time, I must say the following:

Anybody who scoops me on this will die horribly.  Ask Dave Tate for
details on the sadistic torture I have in store for them.  Not to give
away too much, but it involves finding maximum likelihood estimators
for the negative binomial distribution.  Heh, heh, heh.

The update will come on Friday, and there will be much rejoicing.

jking

(who finally missed the top 20 in the net.predictions contest, but
 who won't holler at 21st given his predictions for the Red Sox,
 Mariners, Dodgers and A's.)
From: jeffh@pisces.sps.mot.com  (Jeff Heilner)
Subject: Re: eck chokes again!
Organization: SPS
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 17:21:03 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.003329.11273@odin.corp.sgi.com> kubey@sgi.com (Ken  
Kubey) writes:
> 
> I agree he shouldn't be called a "jerk," but he sure didn't help
> the A's cause by his actions.
> 

Many people (even some Toronto players themselves) are saying that Eck's  
fist pumping in the top of the 8th somehow "motivated" the Jay's in the  
9th. I submit that if the Jay's needed an emotional action by an A's  
player to get them motivated for a Championship Series game,  
then....well....they've got some serious problems.

Of course, they are up 3-2. so maybe I'm the one with the problem. :/

- Jeff

--
---------------------------------------------------
Jeff Heilner
Motorola SPS - Tempe, AZ 
Email: jeffh@pisces.sps.mot.com (NeXT)
*** A'S *** SHARKS *** WARRIORS *** RAIDERS ***
OAKLAND A'S - 1992 American League West Champions!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: jack morris, pitching to the score.
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 23:04:15 GMT

In article <39184@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers) writes:
>
>Hey, but how about that Jeff Russell!  Winning pitcher!  1-0 record
>in the ALCS!  Sure must have "won" the game for Oakland...

A true clutch performance.  (And he has an ERA of 0.00!)

Goes to show how silly some of these stats are.  ERA is worthless
for a reliever.

Cheers,
-Valentine

-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
From: chee1l5@Jane.UH.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: RC/MLV Continued
Date: 11 Oct 92 20:08:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: menudo.1992Oct11.200812.29448
Reply-To: chee1l5@Jane.UH.EDU
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Houston

>Josh Rosenbluth (attmail!jrosenbluth) writes:
>
>Player        RC    MLV
>
>McGwire       -6    -6

Huh, how can this be true ?
He hit 42 dingers, and had an OBP of around .400!

Sam
From: RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: TORONTO BLUE JAYS CLINCHED THE AL EAST!!!!!
Date: 8 Oct 92 01:58:34 GMT
 <1992Oct7.195516.7525@nstn.ns.ca>

regarding, "prediction: roberto alomar will steal more bases than rickey
henderson in the alcs.  let them worry about him."

well, so far, roberto has stolen more bases than rickey.

and so far, the a's are winning.
From: kday@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Kevin Day)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: THE BRAVES WIN!!! THE BRAVES WIN!!!!
Date: 15 Oct 92 10:53:03 GMT
Reply-To: kday@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Kevin Day)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.sport.baseball, tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>
>Am I the only one who thought it was stupid to leave Drabek in to
>start the ninth?  (I started swearing when he came to bat in the top
>of the inning...  It isn't simply 20-20 hindsight.)  He had a good
>game, but he was tiring and allowed a *lot* of baserunners in the
>sixth and seventh innings.  The eighth was a breeze, but it was
>against weaker hitters.
>
  I think Leyland's basic thought (and I agree) was that a tiring Doug
Drabeck, is better than almost anyone he could bring out of the bullpen.
The only person out there who could have possibly shut the door was
Bob Walk, but I think his performance in game 5 was far above average
for him.

K. Scott Day   (kday@oasys.dt.navy.mil)
Carderock Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center
Code 1252
Bethesda, Maryland 20084-5000

------------------------------------------------------------------------
*    "The point to remember is that what the government gives       
*     it must first take away."
*                                        -John S. Coleman           
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: barrywatch
Date: 7 Oct 92 02:31:43 GMT

(man on first, two outs)

taken ball, one ball, no strikes
popped up, short left field

0-2, 1 bb, 1 so
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: leza@taichi.uucp (25853-breckinridge)
Subject: Re; Ex Cubs All-Star teams
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 17:05:53 GMT




--Pete    (anderson@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu) writes: 

>It's that time of year again, when all of us sufferers sigh and say,
>"What might have been..."

>C-  Damon Berryhill (10 HR, 43 RBI)
>1B- Rafael Palmeiro (.268, 22 HR, 85 RBI)
>2B- Scott Fletcher (.275, 17 SB)
>SS- Curtis Wilkerson (.250, 18 SB)
>3B- Chico Walker (.289, 15 SB)
>OF- Joe Carter (34 HR, 119 RBI, 12 SB)
>OF- Darrin Jackson (17 HR, 70 RBI, 14 SB)
>OF- George Bell (25 HR, 112 RBI)
>OF- Mel Hall (.280, 15 HR, 81 RBI)
>SP- Bob Tewksbury (16-5, 2.16 ERA, 20 BB in 33 starts)
>SP- Rick Sutcliffe (16-15, 4.47 ERA, 5 complete games)
>RP- Dennis Eckersley (7-1, 1.91 ERA, 51 saves)
>RP- Lee Smith (4-9, 3.12 ERA, 43 saves)

>What the Cubs currently have to show for the above transactions:
>Turk Wendell, Luis Salazar, Sammy Sosa, Ken Patterson, Bob Scanlan,
>Chuck McElroy
>
>Comments:
>1. I realize, of course, that these guys never would have stolen so many
>bases had they still been with the Cubs.  Even Bell had 5 this year.
>2. Tewksbury and Eckersley were, admittedly, worthless at the time the
>Cubs dumped them.
>3. Note the Rolaids Relief Man of the Year in both leagues was an ex-Cub.
>Think Lefebvre would have used a committee with either of these guys around?
>4. The Joe Carter trade STILL PISSES ME OFF after all these years.




-------

Being a life-long Cubs fan (I grew up in the South Suburbs of Chicago 
watching Jack Brickhouse and Lou Boudreau on Cubs' telecasts for
roughly 150 games a year (I had no childhood)), I had to respond to this
post. No question, what the Cubs had in their farm system in the early
1980's was pretty nice when you look at it but....

Joe Carter - Yes, I hated that trade at the time as well. His size and
power in Wrigley was going to be awfully nice. However, looking
back on it, I think it was the right trade in 1984. The Cubs hadn't had
a division winner AT ALL at that point. Rick Sutcliff came over and
pitched the best baseball for a short period of time that I have
ever seen. Also, Mel Hall was included in that trade but I was
glad to see him go (he was a pain for the Cubs management, despite
his stats). Also, where were the Cubs going to use Carter? Mark
Grace was rapidly coming up as the 1st baseman and Andre Dawson 
was set in right field (I think Dawson was in Chicago by 1984, I
can't remember anymore). Yes, it was a lousy long term trade
but it did help the Cubs win the East that Year.


Rafael Palmerio - This one ticked me off. Everytime I hear the
Mets' fans complain about Dave Madigan, I think about this trade.
YOU DON'T TRADE .300 HITTERS!!!! You find a way to use them. 
However, on the bright side this trade helped Chicago to 
their other division title. 

Dennis Eckersley - I disagree - He was not washed up. He begged Cubs
management to try him in the pen and they refused. A missed
opportunity!!!

Robert




Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: doctor8@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Jason Abner Miller)
Subject: Re: The origin of the _World_ Series
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: history world series trivia newspaper
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 21:09:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.154941.24734@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes...
>In article <14OCT199200170079@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> doctor8@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Jason Abner Miller) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct13.215411.2254@athena.mit.edu>, herrera@athena.mit.edu (Ramon F Herrera) writes...
>>> 
>>>Can somebody explain the origin of the name "World Series"?
>>>A friend of mine says that the first such competition
>>>was sponsored by some NYC newspaper called "The World". 
>>>Can anyone confirm/deny this?  Any references?
>>> 
>>	Actually, the original "World Series" took place between Boston
>>and Pittsburgh in 1903; the new york papers had nothign to do with it.  At
>>the time, baseball was still the ONLY sport, and the owners of the two teams
>>in the rival American and National leagues decided to face each other in a
>>best 5-of-9 series, to determine the "World" champion.  At the time, the
>>name "World" made sense, since the team owners happened to think on a very
>>broad scale.
> 
>I'm under the impression that the New York World did sponsor a championship-
>type series in the nineteenth century for a few years, and that the 1903 
>World Series took its name from that earlier event.
>-- 
>ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu 
>also at quibeaux@uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers
>the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
>ajax crypto-analyzer -- warning! remove all chicken bones first

	YES - in 1883, the Providence Grays of the American Association and 
the New York Metropolitans of the National League played each other in
a best of 5 series.  There was a "World Series" between the N.L. and the
A.A. from 1883 until about 1890 when the American Association folded.
	What I'm NOT sure of is that the New York World sponsored this event.
I'm also not sure if this event was even called the "World Series".  If 
anyone out there knows about these series played in the 1880's, could they
please post any additional info they have?  Thanks

							Jason Miller
Founder of the RJTA:
	Remove Jeff Torborg Association.
	Accepting all donations; please forward to Nelson Doubleday and 
Fred Wilpon @ Shea Stadium, Flushing Meadow, NY.  Thank you.
From: jt2t+@andrew.cmu.edu (James Francis Thomas)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Pittsburg Fans
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:41:59 GMT
Organization: Senior, Biology, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.sport.baseball: 13-Oct-92 Re: Pittsburg Fans
by Brian Kiviat@oasys.dt.na 
> Does anyone know what the average attendence per game was for the Pirates
> this year. If the Pitt fans are so great, this better be high.

The attendance was down from last year.  The exact figures I couldn't
tell you since there is no local newspaper, and there hasn't been since
March.  The fact that the papers were on strike is a big reason that
attendance dropped.  Usually, one reads about the Pirates in the papers.
 With no paper it was difficult to keep up with the team, like when they
were playong and against whom, and any promotions the ballpark was
offering.  So when you read about a low attendance figure in Pittsburgh
somewhere else, keep this in mind before you make some stupid comment
about the fans in this town.

The population base of Pittsburgh is only a little above 2 million.  How
can they expect to draw more fans than cities like New York, Chicago,
and LA.  Pittsburgh also happens to be in a region with many other
baseball teams.  The Indians are only 2 hours away, the Reds are 5 hours
away, the Phils are 6 hours away, the Yanks and Mets are only about 7-8
hours away.  Looking at this realistically, if you root for the team
closest to you, Pittsburgh has only about half the state of PA to draw
fans from.

Compare this to say Atlanta which has over 3 million people.  They get
their fair weather fans from a much larger population base since the
Braves are the only major baseball team in the south, until the Marlins,
and most likely the Giants enter the baseball scene.

The Pirates did draw over 165,000 fans for the three game NLCS series.  

I say fair Weather Atlanta Fans because of my observations during game 5
of the NLCS.  I was sitting next to a group of Braves fans, and I knew
more about the Braves than they did.  They had no clue who Smith was,
and they didn't know who Leibrandt was either.  I guess that these guys
didn't pitch well enough this year for these fans to hear about them. 
To add further to my amazement, they thought that the Braves had
previously won a World Series before.  I'm glad that these folks aren't
Pirate fans.


Let's Go BUCS!!!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Leave McCarver Alone!!
From: <ALWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wednesday, 14 Oct 1992 14:44:20 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

In article <10OCT92.03403190@vax.clarku.edu>, hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu says:
>
>Hey, leave McCarver alone!  I think he's great.  He's funny, he's
>smart, he's silly, he's cute.
   IMHO, his best moment was when in game 2 (I believe) Atlanta had runners on
 1st and 2nd none out and Gant hit to 3b and the 3rd baseman tagged third and
 threw to 2nd for a double play.
    At this point Mcdonough said something to the effect that if it was hit
 harder it could have been a triple play. McCarver replied "It it was hit
 harder it could have been a double. Take your pick..."

    Al


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball