HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hamm@austoto.sps.mot.com (Steve Hamm)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Security system info wanted
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:08:27 GMT
Reply-To: hamm@ssdt-bluestein.sps.mot.com (Steve Hamm)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Motorola SPS, Austin, TX

---On Sun, 15 Nov 1992 17:37:35 GMT, gse@gsbux1 (George Easton ) said:

George> My questions are: 1) Are there mail order companies that sell
George> security system components? 2) What technical information is
George> required to install the devices properly and where can one get
George> it?

I've installed two security systems-- one in my house, one in my
mother-in-law's.  I've got a good shop to deal with locally: They sell
to die-hard do-it-yourself types at 30% off list, or they will do the
installation.  I'd suggest looking around to see if you can find a
shop like this in your area.

I've been using Ademco equipment (evidently Ademco has been in the
business quite a while; I've been pleased with the reliability and
features) and the shop I deal with uses Ademco equipment in their
commercial installations.  Ademco controllers (at least the ones I've
seen) are equipped for monitoring, and some models will handle mixed
(hardwired/wireless) systems.

If you own your system, you can generally get lower rates for
monitoring since the company doesn't need to amortize the equipment
through your monitoring fees.  I've been quoted as low as $12/month
locally.

I don't know of any mail order places dealing in security systems.
My phone book lists Do-It-Yourself Alarm Co. at 800-872-1929, but
I have no idea who they are or what kind of equipment they sell.
Might be worth checking, though.

As far as technical info for installation, my local dealer has been
very good about helping me.  (Of course, it doesn't hurt to have a
degree or two in electrical engineering ;-) Most things don't require
much more knowledge than how to wire up a loop.  Motion detectors are
a little harder: for instance, they have power supply leads and relay
leads, and should be installed using shielded wire to minimize
interference-caused false alarms.  (Ground the shield.)  There is also
some skill involved in choosing where to locate motion detectors, and
how to set their detection pattern: are there windows?  are there
pets? etc.

I'd be glad to answer any direct questions (if I know the answer).

--Steve
--
Steve Hamm ------  Motorola Inc. Semiconductor Systems Design Technology
                   3501 Ed Bluestein Blvd., MD-M2, Austin TX 78762
Ph:  512-928-6612  Internet:  hamm@ssdt-bluestein.sps.mot.com   
Fax: 512-928-7662  UUCP:      ...cs.utexas.edu!oakhill!austoto!hamm
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Subject: Re: Water saving toilets
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Distribution: misc.consumers.house
Date: 20 Nov 92 11:20:46

In article <BIRCSAK.92Nov19143857@cmpass.mps.mlo.dec.com> bircsak@cmpass.mps.mlo.dec.com (John Bircsak) writes:

   We're fixing up our bathroom, and would like to replace the existing
   toilet with a low-flush-volume (or whatever the term is) toilet (1.5
   gals).

Actually, in Massachusetts, you are required to do this by code.  (The
Californians are always surprised, but Massachusetts was the first
state to require it.)

   I remember hearing bad things about low flush toilets several years
   ago (i.e., requiring several flushes to achieve success).

We have a Kohler Preserver II (?) 1.6-gal toilet.  It works fine.
Sometimes you have to brush the bowl and re-flush, but sometimes you
have to do that with the old toilets, too.  The one thing that's
different is that it's a bad idea to leave the toilet unflushed with
lots of toilet paper in it -- this apparently causes clogs, and I have
to use the plumber's helper.

	-s

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: jsf@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (jay.fishman)
Subject: Dry Well Advice Sought
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:36:01 GMT
Keywords: Dry Well


My driveway, which abuts my garden, has no drainage. A friend suggested digging
a dry well 30' from the edge of the garden in the lawn so that it drains away
from the garden (wouldn't want all that oil and salt from the road underneath
the tomatoes). My questions are these:
	1. what type of pvc should I use?
	2. How deep and wide should the dry well be?
	3. What kind of fill should I use?
	4. Can it be done by hand (and back) ?
Any advice would be much appreciated.


Thanks,

Jay
att!cbnewsj!jsf
From: msi@ESD.3Com.COM (Mark Isfeld)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Water saving toilets
Date: 19 Nov 92 23:41:13 GMT
Distribution: misc.consumers.house

bircsak@cmpass.mps.mlo.dec.com (John Bircsak) writes:


>Hello all,

>We're fixing up our bathroom, and would like to replace the existing
>toilet with a low-flush-volume (or whatever the term is) toilet (1.5
>gals).

>I remember hearing bad things about low flush toilets several years
>ago (i.e., requiring several flushes to achieve success).  (I do know
>to avoid toilets that rely on the house water pressure, since we have
>fairly low pressure.)

>So, what I'd like are recommendations/disrecommendations, hints,
>tips, hidden catches from actual experienced consumers.

We found out that Consumer Reports tested these 1.5 Gallon Toilets .  
(By the way some units called "Water Saver are 3.5 Gallons, which is
only slightly better than the 5 gallon standard, be careful shopping!)
One of the best units
was sold by Sears.  Just go to your local mail order spot and order one.
CR tested units by creating artificial solid (sawdust/lard) and liquid
wastes, and seeing how well the units operated when attached to 10 feet
of horizontal pipe.  They checked for the ability of the units to suck down
floating solid waste, as well as flush the liquid wastes from the bowl.
I believe they also tested the ability of the unit to flush the waste all
the way down their test pipe.

I purchased one and installed it.  It has worked flawlessly for me.  However,
I cannot claim my installation is a good stress test.  This is a second floor
unit, and the pipe goes straight down after the vent is reached, only two feet
from the toilet (2feet horizontial, then 10 feet vertical) .  If the unit 
did not provide enough oomph to flush material down a horizontal pipe, 
I wouldn't know.  I can say that it always cleans the bowl.  There is no
temptation to flush again.

I am considering buying a ?? brand toilet at Home Depot, because it
is cheaper, and easier to get (THis is for another bathroom with a 5
gallon Toilet).  However, I'm taking a chance that it
is not as good than the one that I have.  I paid low $100's ($130?) for
the Sears Toilet about 8 Months ago.  THe one at Home depot is in the
$80 to $90 range, and I can pick it up whenever I'm ready to install it.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Mark Isfeld   
| Mark_Isfeld@3Com.com                     
| 408-764-5167
From: davidm@meaddata.com (David Miller)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: home warrantee
Date: 19 Nov 1992 18:53:51 GMT
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: maddog.meaddata.com
Keywords: AHS

I just want to plug AHS (American Home Shield).  The seller of my house
furnished the policy.  The water heater wasn't working quite right so I
check the elements, and sure enough, the lower element showed infinite
resistance.  So, instead of following directions from the net on how to
replace it, I called AHS.  They had a plumber out in 24 hours to fix it.
It was easy to get through to them, they were prompt, etc.  Couldn't ask
for more.  I paid only the $35 deductable to the plumber (I know, the element
was probably less but I didn't have to do anything this way).

I figured the AHS policy would be pretty useless when I bought the house.  
I glad I was wrong.

And I'm not connected to AHS in any way.

Dave


-- 
David James Miller                        Architecture&Systems Evolution
Mead Data Central, B6F3                   (513) 865-7441
PO Box 933                                davidm@meaddata.com
Dayton Ohio 45401                         I speak for me, not MDC
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: drand@spinner.osf.org (Douglas S. Rand)
Subject: Re: Providing ground (not an FAQ)
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:05:30 GMT

In article <BxvEL9.IF1@access.digex.com>, nbull@access.digex.com (Nicholas Bull) writes:
|> ...
|> I want to make a 2-prong ungrounded outlet into a 3-prong
|> grounded outlet (to connect a surge-suppressed computer to).  On
|> the other side of the wall, a few feet higher and to the left, is
|> a properly grounded 3-prong outlet.  Can I do either of the
|> following?
|> 
|> 1) (Preferably), drill a hole through the wall, and extend the
|> ground wire from the existing 3-prong grounded outlet, probably
|> using a conduit to take it to the presently-ungrounded 2-prong,
|> which would then be converted to a (hopefully) properly grounded
|> 3-prong; or

Don't know.  I'm a little uncomfortable on this,  but I don't have
the NEC at work and I can't check it.  The usual options for retrofit
are to run a separate ground back to the panel,  or to a cold water
pipe that is continuous, excepting jumpered unions, back to the water
main (this is grounded at entry and is often metal and self grounded).

|> 2) do the same but extend all three wires from the existing
|> 3-prong grounded outlet to the ungrounded 2-prong, disconnecting
|> it from the old wiring (I hope it's at the end of the circuit,
|> not the middle or beginning).

I like this better.  It should be OK if there is a basement 
below and you can pull the old wires down into the basement.
Remember that you'll have to terminate the old
wires properly.

If the box is not at the end of a run,  and you can't pull 
the wires down to the basement,  then it will probably not 
meet code with the extra current carrying conductors in the
single work box.  

|> Thanks for your wisdom on this.  (Another alternative is to
|> somehow run a ground wire from the cold-water pipe in the
|> bathroom across the hall--maybe through the attic?)

As above,  I think this is reasonable,  but the ground must be 
continuous back to the water main.

-- 
Douglas S. Rand <drand@osf.org>		OSF/Motif Dev.
Snail:         11 Cambridge Center,  Cambridge,  MA  02142
Disclaimer:    I don't know if OSF agrees with me... let's vote on it.
Amateur Radio: KC1KJ
From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: DIY blown-in insulation
Date: 17 Nov 92 06:07:38 GMT
Organization: Elegant Communications Inc., Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Nov16.194242.10998@adobe.com> pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) writes:
>I'll save Chris Lewis the trouble and mention that rock wool is
>claimed to have some advantages over cellulose, etc. I suspect
>you have to live near a steel mill for it to be economical.
>(is this rock wool really steel mill slag?)

I was staying out of the discussion up til now, but ... ;-)

Rock wool *does* have some advantages over cellulose and fiberglass.
Higher R value, non-packing, non-flammable/non-outgassing under any and
all situations, no sog under any circumstances except outright continuous
immersion (no compaction after dryout), better handling characteristics
than fiberglass, better sound deadening etc. etc. etc.  And often cheaper
than fiberglass.  Cellulose, after being treated for fire and compacting
resistance (whether it's truly permanent I'm not going to guess)
apparently costs more than fiberglass (according to some installation
quotes that Fred Christiansen mentioned a while back).

However, as I've not seen any consumer-level-rentable equipment for
installing loose-fill rockwool, I guess you got me.... ;-)

[To be precise, I've not seen loose-fill rockwool available, so
installation consists of running rockwool batts thru a shredder
then a blower.  The equipment that did our previous house's
attic was mounted in a 14' truck.]

As I understand it, rock wool is iron-refining slag.  So it's
not going to be found at a simple steel (ie: rolling sheet, tube etc.)
mill unless it does its own refining.  Tho, I don't imagine that
proximity to a source of slag is going to make a heck of a lot of
difference.  A single rail car of slag is going to produce an
awesome amount of rockwool.  An off-the-cuff calculation for
80 tons worth of slag seems to be around 350K square feet
of R21.5.  Even assuming a couple grand for shipping, that only
works out to a buck or so per 5-10 bags.  I should also point out
that rockwool, here, is going to have to have made a journey of
about 350 miles to the processing plant, then another 350 miles
here as finished product.  (Sudbury->Guelph->Ottawa.  Don't know
whether Hamilton creates refining slag or not)  Still cheaper than
fiberglass.

One of the home-centre chains in Canada has been offering DIY
cellulose installation, rather similar to what you describe,
for quite a number of years.  However, I don't know whether
they still do it - at least for attic installation, the relatively
small amount of labour involved doesn't seem to justify DIY.
Wall installation is a different story, tho, because of the
drilling etc., few would attempt DIYing it either.  I know
I wouldn't.  Attic maybe.
-- 
Chris Lewis; clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca; Phone: Canada 613 832-0541
Psroff 3.0 info: psroff-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Ferret list: ferret-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: sweet@adobe.com (Dick Sweet)
Subject: Re: Hardwood floor over concrete slab ?
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:26:46 GMT

In a recent article, stellaw@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Stella Kwong) asks:
>
>
>     Is it a good idea to put hardwood floor in the kitchen? Can I 
>     clean the hardwood floor with water every other week? 
>  
>     Also, is there any problem putting hardwood floor on top of 
>     concrete slab? I know hardwood floor can be glued instead of 
>     nailed, but my contractor told me that the moisture from the
>     concrete slab could create bubbles underneath the hardwood 
>     and eventually it would damage the hardwood floor.  
>
>     Is this true? Is hardwood floor over concrete slab possible? 
>     
>
>     Thanks,
>     Stella
>----------

We have a hardwood floor in our kitchen which is installed on top of a slab
(with some sort of black goo).  It's 3/4 inch thick parquet squares (somewhat
oversized to match the floors in the rest of the downstairs of our house).
It is finished with urethane varnish.  We wash it periodically, but don't
let water stand for long periods.  When we had housecleaners it was washed
every week :^).  We love the floor and have had no adhesion problems even
though about a third of the slab was new when the floor was laid.  We've
had advice (which we have followed) to have it recoated about every 5 years.
It's currently less than 10 years old, so I'm not sure when we will coat
it again (we were removing even more carpeting and refinishing floors when
we had the kitchen coated the second time).

Dick
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: weidman@nap.amoco.com (Daniel L. Weidman)
Subject: Re: R-values
Reply-To: weidman@nap.amoco.com
Organization: Amoco
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:16:09 GMT


I have heard that Thinsulate and Quallofil are so effective because they have
more surface area and thus trap more air (?).  I assume what this really means
is that they are more effective at reducing convection.  SOOO ... packing more
FG into that stud space probably helps but obviously at some point it is no
longer cost effective.  Where this occurs is a function of your heating costs
so it varies by location, heating unit, etc., etc.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: bwise@hemlock.mitre.org (Barry Wise)
Subject: Re: Neighborhood from hell
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:13:14 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.140321.5749@desire.wright.edu> sbishop@desire.wright.edu  
writes:
> 
> 
> I've learned one thing from all this.  AVOID ANY HOUSE THAT IS PART OF AN
> OWNERS' ORGANIZATION!
> 

Virginia now requires that any covenants/homeowners associations bylaws be  
provided to the new owners prior to settlement because of these kinds of  
problems. Knowing how overwhelming a settlement can be they probably signed  
everything without reading it.

 Having served on a home owners association I have the opposite view from  
yours. Home owners who move into a neigborhood and assume they can do what they  
want without thinking about the effect on their neighbors. Your friends had  
trucks and didn't think to check to see if anyone else had commercial vehicles  
in the neighborhood? Did they get a building permit for any of the work they  
had done? 

I've seen people paint there townhouse bright pink and can't see why other  
people are upset. She kept her yard a mess and said she thought it was 'pretty'  
that way. Oh sure, she thought it was her 'right' even though see affected the  
property values of her neighbors. 

Those yuppie types were there first and your friends don't have a right to  
impose there style of living on people who moved to a community with covenants  
_because_ there were covenants to prevent the sort of things your friends were  
doing. They started the harassment by refusing to obey the covenants. 
--
Barry Wise
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: bill@gaza.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (William J. King)
Subject: Paint remover recommendation sought.....
Organization: University of Hawaii
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 23:34:48 GMT


I have some flat interior doors that have been painted. I would like
to remove the paint and apply a clear finish over bare wood.  Can anyone
recommend a paint remover that will get me all the way back to bare wood?
thanx,
Wm.


--
    bill@uhunix.bitnet 
    bill@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu 
    21.19 N.LAT by 157.52 W.LONG          
    Fish on the Byte
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: meir@watson.ibm.com (Meir Laker)
Subject: forced-hot-air vs baseboard heating: is it really "drier" heat?
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:35:33 GMT
Distribution: misc
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

New construction in our area seems to have baseboard heating as
opposed to forced-hot-air heating.

The reason: "conventional" wisdom has it that baseboard heating dries
out a house less than forced-hot-air heating, significantly less so
that a humidifier is not needed (besides the fact that a humidifier
could not be installed without duct work).

Is this true?

I have always thought that the main source of winter dryness is the
difference in relative humidity between the outside cold air and the
inside warm air. If so, it would seem to me irrelevant how the air is
heated.  (A rise in temparature from 20 degrees to 70 degrees is going
to cause the relative humidity to drop the same amount no matter the
source of the heat.)

If so, it would seem to make more sense installing forced-hot-air
heating and adding a humidifier.

Meir Laker 

IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center      
P.O. Box 218, Yorktown Heights, NY 10598    
Phone: 914-945-2699  

meir@watson.ibm.com





--
Meir Laker 

IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center      
P.O. Box 218, Yorktown Heights, NY 10598    
Phone: 914-945-2699  
Tieline: 862-2699

meir@watson.ibm.com
From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: garage opener transmitter
Date: 23 Nov 92 06:56:58 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Elegant Communications Inc., Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Nov22.215416.11014@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> gls@windmill.ATT.COM (Col. G. L. Sicherman) writes:
>The opener and switch still work fine, but the transmitter is burnt
>out.  Being 10 years old, it is no longer being made, and it uses an
>obsolete protocol.  Sears Roebuck sells a matching receiver and
>transmitter, but the receiver requires an electrical outlet.  My
>garage isn't wired; the old receiver was powered by the control line
>to the opener.

>Having an outlet installed in the garage would be expensive -- can
>anybody suggest a cheaper alternative?

This sounds a little odd - doesn't the opener have electrical power?
You can wire the receiver into where the opener gets its power from.
If the opener isn't plugged in, but runs from a nearby junction box,
you could add a receptacle box beside it.

Or, you might be able to connect the receiver into the AC power inside
the opener (it may already have provision for this).

Or, you could place the receiver at the closest outlet in your house,
and extend the control line to it.  Whether the geometry would work
is something I can't tell without experimenting.
-- 
Chris Lewis; clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca; Phone: Canada 613 832-0541
Psroff 3.0 info: psroff-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Ferret list: ferret-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: drand@spinner.osf.org (Douglas S. Rand)
Subject: Re: Source for nice plumbing fixtures
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Distribution: usa
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:16:36

In article <1992Nov18.152535.7449@cello.hpl.hp.com> cchao@cello.hpl.hp.com (Chia Chao) writes:

   We are looking for a some bathroom faucets. We went to a specialty
   shop and saw many very nice ones---but the price! Is there any way to
   get nice fixtures at good price?  Perhaps mail-order house or
   distributor sale to end-user? Any othe ideas are also welcome.

You don't say how nice and how expensive what you saw was.
I've found that bath faucets of any quality start at about
$80 and can range up indefinitely,  especially if you start
getting stylish.  I think the reality is that quality is
expensive in the production end with more people actually
examining the work,  more hand work, etc.  TOH had a nice
show where they did a tour of Grohe in Germany.  This was
a great example of the problem.  BTW,  I really like Grohe's
fixtures,  they last well,  wear well,  work well,  solid
brass,  and quality plating.

If you find a cheap way to get good fixtures,  please let
the rest of us suckers know!  I'd be happy to spend less.



--
Douglas S. Rand <drand@osf.org>		OSF/Motif Dev.
Snail:         11 Cambridge Center,  Cambridge,  MA  02142
Disclaimer:    I don't know if OSF agrees with me... let's vote on it.
Amateur Radio: KC1KJ
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: fredch@phx.mcd.mot.com (Fred Christiansen)
Subject: Re: Shake roof maintenance (and replacement)
Organization: Motorola Computer Group, RT Software
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:00:10 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.175311.18409@phx.mcd.mot.com> fredch@phx.mcd.mot.com (Fred Christiansen) writes:
>Elk, GAF, Georgia-Pacific, and GS all make 25 yr, 30 yr, and 40 yr transferable
>warranty shake-like ("dimensional") shingles.  You would probably prefer
>the top of the line.  Don't forget the ridge treatments (Z-Ridge, Dura-Ridge,

One more:  CertainTeed's Independence Shangle.
-- 
Fred Christiansen, Motorola, 2900 S Diablo Way, Tempe, AZ 85282  "Canajun, eh?"
fredch@phx.mcd.mot.com  ||  uunet!phx.mcd.mot.com!fredch  ||  +1 602-438-3464
  ".. I have set before you Life and Death, blessing and cursing;  therefore
      choose Life, that both you and your children may live"  Deut 30:19
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house