From: hsiahaan@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Re: about ET: to indonesians: Mr Silveira
Date: 17 Nov 92 14:02:54 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Mr Silveira, answering your last posting: 

> 
> Mr Siahaan,
> you start by saying that
> 
>    you can see that indonesian government has accepted and treated ETers as
>    indonesians. by no way will our government treat them differently from other
>    indonesians,
> 
> i.e. Claim: as far as the Indonesian government is concerned, the East
> Timorese are no different than another citizen

	Exactly...
 
> Later you mention that:
> 
>    what i am saying is that the tragedy and killings in ETers are not of
>    indonesian will.  it is either by necessity or by mistakes.
> 
> and you further elaborate that:
> 
>    by necessity for example is to take care of the rebellions in the ET
>    which can be dengerous to other ETers (who are indonesian citizens)
>    and to national integrity.
>
> [..]
>
> This is quite interesting since:
> a) there are now two types of East Timorese: the rebels and the non-rebels 
> b) the non-rebels (i.e. the "others""), the ones the government wants
>    to protect, also happen to be the ones of Indonesian citizenship
>    (what a coincidence)
>    => this implies that the rebels are not since that is what you chose
>       to distinguish them.

	Mr Sileveira,
	dont u put words in my mouth, now. i didnt say that those ET rebells
	are not indonesian citizens. ok ? u are the one who said it. i can see
	u are trying to find 'something' within the lines of my last posting/ar-
	guments, but u did it incorrectly. this is not the only incorrect one:
	 
>    => this contradicts your Claim above since some East Timorese (the
>       ones of Indonesian citizenship) are clearly being given preferencial
>       treatment.
	
        wrong ! your implication is totally absurd. it is not only different
	from what i've stated, but it also carries your massage which is not 
	mine ! the ET rebels are still indonesian citizens, but they did not 
	follow the laws which are now applicable to them since they are also 
	indonesians. 
	IN OTHER WORDS, THEY ARE NOT TREATED DIFFERENTLY. NO PREVILLAGES
	GIVEN WHATSOEVER.( i am not shouting, just want to make it clearer).
	they (these rebels) are now treated as dangerous citizens: dangerous
	to other citizens and to national safety. indonesian army has jobs to
	prevent and protect indonesians and the nation of indonesia from any
	danger, both from ouside and INSIDE. 
	there. hope it's clear now.	
> 
> Furthermore you say:
> 
>    by mistakes for example is the one that famous among you portuguese
>    which has been handled properly by punishing the wrongdoers.
> 
> For all accounts I heard, several East Timorese have been jailed,
> prosecuted and sentenced (up to life), for allegedly provoking the
> confrontation.  This punishment of the East Timorese is in direct
> conflict with the reported Indonesian blaming and punishment of the
> responsible military officers (and your own belief).  How can it be
> explained?
> 
	you have answered this yourself, sir. if they (allegedly) provoked
	the confrontation, then they belong to the jails. this is not by any
	means different to the punishment applied to the guardsmen. regardless
	of your (objective) justification whether the punishments given among 
	them are fair or not, indonesian justice system has given its 
	decision/punishment 
	(now you may make a mockery of indonesian justice system, eh !!! ;-)) 

[...]
	Mr Silveira,
	u further assesed that what indoensian did now is similar to what 
	the old-potugal has done. well since all your implications are wrong,
	then this accussation is invalid. however, at least u admitted that
	portugal has bad history taking care of its colonies. if u read my
	previous postings, u may see that i will/can/should not hear any
	advice from u concerning ET due to this history. unfortunately, this 
 	is an open media and u still can post anything if you want to. i cannot 
	prevent u from doing so. but next time u try to do debating, dont try
	to imply something. it might be wrong (as u just did ). and this time 
	you may want to listen to my advice.   

thank you

NB.
 my postings are solely my opinions. they will, should, and can not be
 iterpreted as of other indonesians'. 
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia