HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cherry@access.digex.com (Cherry Poptart)
Subject: Re: deadliest art
Organization: Express Access Public Access UNIX, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:44:33 GMT



>Absolutely. This is why it strikes me as so ludicrous to recommend MA to
>someone as a means of self-defense (assuming they need it). It just takes
>so damn long, that I think it is only realistic to measure it in terms
>of decades rather than years. 

I have to disagree.  The time to train for 
self defense is now, when you do not have a 
need for it, not 5 years from now when you 
do, and you are crying about how it takes
5 years to learn a MA.  You stand there
knowing nothing, when you could be a master,
but for 5 years of time not spent on a MA.

I am starting to think that the best thing
is to learn a MA, learn about some weapons,
learn some tactical situation management, 
and more than anything learn the attitude.
Then you will be an 80 year old man who 
fears nothing ;-)   Just joking.

>Heh...so, your gun instructors read Musashi!?

Well, some of them would think that "five
rings" had something to do with the Olympics.
Others are better read.  I try to read some too.

Cherry!
From: thorick@sybase.com (Thorick Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Options
Keywords: IF YOU OWN A GUN PLS. READ THIS
Date: 23 Jul 92 22:42:46 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc.

In article <1992Jul18.222748.18842@access.digex.com> cherry@access.digex.com (Cherry Poptart) writes:
>
>Still, all of this varies.  In fact, cutting 
>someones arm off cleanly MIGHT not have much 
>system shock effect at all, since all of the 
>nerves and stuff would be severed, and a severed
>nerve does not report pain (i.e. pain is not the 
>default condition if the nerve suddenly stops
>reporting).  Better to cut the arm open end to
>end with a lot of bone trauma, but leave it 
>attached. 
>
>Cherry

hmmm..  this is getting so cheery cherry  :-)

sigh..  seriously, I guess this is ALL valid MA talk..
but I must say that I stopped carrying a blade and started
carrying Pepper Spray instead..  simply because I have a
hard time with the idea of slicing someone (in self-defense of course)...

course I realize that I probably shouldn't limit my options and
might do well to have both the blade AND the OC  (I won't carry
a gun illegally)...

-t.c.



--
"We must be careful not to discourage our 12-year-olds by making them   
 waste the best years of their lives on preparing for examinations.  If
 we do not stifle their interest in science, one of them has a chance to
 be the new Heisenberg..."              - Freeman Dyson
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman)
Subject: Re: boardbreaking and quantam physics
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 08:29:39 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1992Jul22.173404.1232@craycos.com> sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi) writes:
|In article <Brsont.Bnu@helios.physics.utoronto.ca> butscher@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Adrian Butscher) writes:
|>Hmmm...
|>
|>The Quantum Mechanics of board breaking?  I'm not too sure if that's the way
|
|OK, OK, OK...let's get a board, some cyanide, a karate-ka in a cat suit, and
|a BIG airtight box...
|
|This is, of course, the famous Schrodinger's Tameshiwari thought experiment.
|
|The cat suit is *not* optional.

Ah, but what if you have, say, a demon -- very small (this ties in
with the Demonic Breathing thread from a while ago).  And he's
operating this window.  If a punch is coming in fast enough he opens
the window, and if it isn't he shuts it.  Thus, the punches on one
of the window will be faster than those on the other.

An application of this principle is Young-Newton's Block, which makes
an attack go through two closely-spaced slits and interfere destruc-
tively with itself before reaching its target (sandan material).

|
|Steve

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  ftit@engin.umich.edu   |   "... a stainless steel rat in the       |
|    (Sergej Roytman)     |  ferroconcrete wainscoting of Internet"   |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Say no to four-line .sigs.
From: mhirsch@atomic.princeton.edu (Michael Hirsch)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Diff. betweeREAD/NEWn Eastern and Western thought
Date: 31 Jul 92 18:44:27 GMT
	<1992Jul31.130339.5352@srg.srg.af.mil>
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Organization: Princeton University Department of Computer Science

In article <1992Jul31.130339.5352@srg.srg.af.mil> dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552) writes:

   Are there
   any Martial arts systems native to the Americas (Pre-Columbian?)

How about Lacrosse?  It was used as a form of war by the Plains (I
think) Indians.

Uh-oh.  Have I started the "It's not an MA, it's a sport!" flame war
again?

It can't be a sport cause it's not in the Olympics.
--


Michael D. Hirsch		mhirsch@cs.princeton.edu    
Computer Science Department	Voice: (609) 258-1751       
Princeton NJ, 08544		FAX:   (609) 258-1771
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: funy weapon stories
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:08:26 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Reply-To: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   

> He eventually ran into the holster and the 9mm and 
> said "Holy Shit. This is a gun!" 

And the off-duty cop behind you said, "Guess this is your lucky day,
lady -- got a permit to carry concealed, don't you?"  

Guess that's an aspect I'd never thought of -- the idea that one's
intimate interactions with random strangers, better known as "dates," 
might cause everybody in the room to find out that you're carryin'.

--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
From: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM (Garth)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Weapons
Date: 28 Jul 92 00:55:58 GMT
Reply-To: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: dojo.west.sun.com

In article 1551@ics.uci.edu, mmadsen@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Matt Madsen) writes:
>What are the laws concerning knives, guns, baseball bats, etc.?
>(I happen to live in southern California, but I'd like to hear about just
>about anywhere.)
>
>What can you carry, what can you conceal, what can you have in your car,
>what can you own at all?
>
>Also, what's worth carrying...
>


California is a hard state for weapons...

Law is if you don't have a permit, you cannot carry it.  Most
cities make it very hard to get a permit.  Some (like SF) it is
almost impossible unless you are in a law enforcement industry.

You may not have a weapon that is accessable to you in the car with 
you without a permit.  If you have a weapon in the trunk, you must
be on your way to, or returning from, the gun range or studio.

I haven't heard if this has changed or not, but it used to be that
carrying a firearm was only a misdemeanor, while having a knife was
a felony.


Washington (state) is a bit easier (and more people seem to have guns).
Permits are easier to get.  Rules are not enforced as much.

One thing you learn, even if you do have a permit for the weapon, if
you do get pulled over, keep your hands on the steering wheel.  Tell
the officer you have the weapon and the permit.  If he sees it without
going through this, he/she will draw his/her pistol on you.  If you
are like me you will want to avoid this.


What is worth carrying?  Well, unless you know how to use it, nothing is.
If you do know how to use a weapon, then it may be worth carrying it, depending
on permits, your states attitude about weapons, and if you know the local
police captian...

-Garth

-Garth

			= = = = = = =
  | Garth R. Doverspike		Sun Microsystems, S.E. Seattle |
  | garth.doverspike@west.sun.com			       |
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: boardbreaking and quantam physics
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:34:04 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <Brsont.Bnu@helios.physics.utoronto.ca> butscher@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Adrian Butscher) writes:
>Hmmm...
>
>The Quantum Mechanics of board breaking?  I'm not too sure if that's the way

OK, OK, OK...let's get a board, some cyanide, a karate-ka in a cat suit, and
a BIG airtight box...

This is, of course, the famous Schrodinger's Tameshiwari thought experiment.

The cat suit is *not* optional.

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cherry@access.digex.com (Cherry Poptart)
Subject: funy weapon stories
Organization: Express Access Public Access UNIX, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 06:03:09 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.120645.14185@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> turnbull@ces.cwru.edu (John Turnbull) writes:
>In article <1992Jul20.013029.21614@access.digex.com> cherry@access.digex.com (Cherry Poptart) writes:
>>
>>There are some funny stories about going on dates 
>>while you are carrying a weapon, but this isnt the 
>>place for them.  
>>
>>Cherry!
>>
>	I'm not so sure, I think a couple of humorous stories
>would fit in real well. It's always good to see the comical as
>well as the serious.

You mean like the time a guy was sliding his
hand under my shirt, in a dark movie theater,
ran into a leather strap and said "So, you like
leather?  Kinky!".  He eventually ran into the
holster and the 9mm and said "Holy Shit. This 
is a gun!" and I turned to him and whispered, 

"Kinky!"


Cherry!



Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jjsmith@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jonathan J. Smith)
Subject: Re: Options
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 05:08:32 GMT

In article <59136@mimsy.umd.edu> tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
>cherry@access.digex.com (Cherry Poptart) writes:
>>
>>There are some funny stories about going on dates 
>>while you are carrying a weapon, but this isnt the 
>>place for them.  
>
>     Why not?
>
>     Went to the movies with a lady the other night, to a theater in
>Wheaton.  She told me that there had been several assults in the area
>recently; then mentioned that (for this reason, I hope, and not
>because of mistrust of me!) that she had a knife in her purse. Two
>thoughts came to mind - first, if anything did happen, I should make
>sure to give her time to bring it into play; second, I'd better make
>sure I made no unwelcome advances! 
>
My first thought here would be I SURE hope she knows how to use it, carrying one and not knowing how to use it can get you into more trouble than not carring one at all!.

>===============================================================================
>Tom Swiss/tms@flubber.cs.umd.edu| "Born to die" | Keep your laws off my brain!
>     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
>          This is a .signature antibody. Vaccinate your .sig!
>     "[There is] a duty in refusing to cooperate in any undertaking that 
>      violates the Constitutional rights of the individual. This holds in
>      particular for all inquisitions that are concerned with the private
>      life and the political affiliations of the citizens..." 
>      -- Albert Einstein


Thoughts again
Jonthan SMith
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Subject:   RE: deadliest art
Reply-To: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 18:55:32 GMT

cherry@access.digex.com (Cherry Poptart) says:

Well, some of them would think that "five
rings" had something to do with the Olympics.
Others are better read.  I try to read some too.

	i guess you don't agree with the famous american saying:
	
		"Better dead than read"

-m.a.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: das@unislc.uucp (David Shorten)
Subject: Re: Video Program Content
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:57:36 GMT

acortez@athena.qualcomm.com (Adrian Cortez) writes:
: 
:    Netters:
:   
:    If you could put together a 30-60 min video program
:    about the martial arts what would you like to have
:    in it?  Keep in mind that the program you're making
:    will be shown on a monthly basis.    

When you say monthly basis do you mean a new installment every month?

If so, I'd sure be interested in seeing:

	1) A history of most of the man-to-man fighting arts from around the 
	   world: including lesser known ones like the Phillipine arts, 
		  Thai, and Indian arts, and I think I've heard of some
		  originating in ancient Greece, and the Middle East.
		  And (of course) I'd like to see the early history of the
		  Asian m-a's (tracing the origins from China to Korea,
		  Okinawa, and Japan).
		 
	2) Then you could easily dedicate an entire show to each of the
	   _popular_ arts practiced today: Aikido, Japanese and Okinawan
	   Karate, Kung Fu, TKD, Tai-Chi ...  

In these style specific shows you could talk about the main focus of that 
art, and how it differs from others. Then show how this focus is developed
in the training, and then how masters (and others) use these techniques 
in practice. 

For example in a show on Karate I would start with pointing out that your 
aim is usually to use violent strikes at your opponent's body, head and 
limbs to subdue him/her, unlike the arts that use holds and throws,
or ki/chi and a centered body/mind to counter one's opponent.  Then I
would show some of the training techniques (training basics, kata, and
sparring).  Then show perhaps a tournament match, and a demonstration
by a master.
 
I would also like to see a show that does a survey of some of the
non-traditional schools and classes out there.  I'm thinking of classes
like Model Mugging, and some of the _street_ styles, and maybe 
competitive kick-boxing.

I'm sure there are tons of other (and better) ideas on what to put in this
series, these are just some things I would like to see.

Also when/where/if will it be aired?

Hope you find something useful here.

Dave S.
	
Organization: Comp & Comm - Telecommunications, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 11:18:14 -0400 
From: Stephen Chan <sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Hard & soft ?
	<1992Jul31.140016.24679@samba.oit.unc.edu>

Paul.Elkins@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Paul Elkins) writes:
> What is the net.thought on combining such dissimilar arts?

	My experience is that when you practice 2 different arts, you
have to perform a context switch to change from one style to the
other.
	For example, when I was practicing Aiki Ju Jitsu and Karate, I
would have to make a strong conscious effort to stick to AJJ movement
patterns during semi-free sparring - my tendency when someone came in
for a grab would be to give ground and side-kick the lead knee, or
block and throw a combination up their centerline.
	But then, during Karate sparring, if someone grabbed me, my
reflex patterns would be in a "Karate" mode and I wouldn't use an
obvious Aiki* counter.

	I'll bet that if you study 2 martial arts which operate at
dissimilar ranges, then an obvious change in the parameters (say, you
end up on the ground instead of kicking range), will provide the cues
for an automatic context switch and you'll start using the techniques
which are optimal for that range.
	Otherwise, you'd be better off studying a MA which integrates
things seamlessly, instead of requiring an explicit context change.

Stephen Y. Chan		Programmer Analyst	CMU Telecommunications
stevec+@cmu.edu		(412)268-5115 [me] 	(412)268-4987 [FAX]
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: smith@cs.tulane.edu (Lon Smith)
Subject: Re: Gatorade vs. Water vs. Anything Else
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Tulane Univ., New Orleans, LA
Distribution: rec
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:48:51 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-2091]: zeus

>  I've heard some people say that regardless of what Gatorade makes you
>think, water is all you really need after a hard workout.  Anyone know
>if Gatorade is really that good, and why?  
 
My 2 cents.

I have been exposed to this question in several other sports I have
participated in (namely soccer and track). There are three things to
look at fluid replacement, electrolyte balancing and energy replacement.
As far as fluid replacement water will work as well as any sports drink
(ie. Gatorade, Squirt, 10-K, Quick Kick, etc..) and this is most likely
the most important issue. As far as balancing electrolytes the sports
drinks do speed this process but if you are talking after a workout they
are not necessary.  Your body will replace them from the foods you
eat and anything else you drink. Also, many sports drinks are loaded with
sodium, a big electrolyte, that you really don't need to take in that
large a quantity. Finally, energy or sugar replacement, sports drinks
can help those athletes who have developed an ability to effectively convert 
the simple sugars, found in most sports drinks, to energy.  This ability
is seen most in endurance athletes who can gain a burst of energy from those
types of drinks. Again, this is not the desirable at the end of a workout
due to increased calories.  So, if you a weighing the pro and con of 
sports drinks vs. water, I feel that water wins. I have also heard it said
that the body can replace fluid quicker with water than sports drinks
but I don't see the grounds for that statement.  Now, on the other hand 
I drink some of the sports drinks because I like the taste. I drink cokes
also and they are really bad for you. I have been in MA for eight year or
more and I generally drink water after my workouts.

I hope this helps

Lon

-- 

***********************************************************************
* Lon Smith                   * Internet:  smith@rex.cs.tulane.edu    *
* Computer Science Department *                                       *
* Tulane University           *                                       *
* New Orleans, LA             *                                       *
***********************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: yy@cbnews.cb.att.com (alan.j.lapenn)
Subject: Re: years for black belt
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 13:39:00 GMT
Summary: testing

In article <MARY.92Jul27162650@martinique.Cayman.COM>, mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Jul24.152210.20460@craycos.com> sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi) writes:
> 
>    In article <l6urdoINNpis@nunki.usc.edu> silverma@nunki.usc.edu (David Silverman) writes:
>    >How many times does it gnerally take to pass the black belt test?
>    >Someone earlier said they passed on the third try, in the art I'm
>    >studying you get only one chance (of course they're pretty sure you'll
>    >pass if they let you take it).
> 
> 
> At the dojang where I study, testing too soon is a Big Time Bad Idea, 
> and judging what "too soon" is, is really up to you.  If you've been
> around the dojang enough so the instructors have some idea what's up
> with you, and you're not ready, they'll generally tell you so and 
> say something like, "You really need to work on X more."  If you 
> choose not to take their advice, or if you haven't been coming in
> to class so they don't know where you're at, and you decide to
> test anyway, well...
> 

[ Lots of stuff deleted ]

I don't know how testing is really done at other schools. Does the individual
decide that it's time to test ? At all of the places that I have studied at it
has been the head instructor that decided when you would test. Which practice is
more common?

-- 
Alan LaPenn      att!mvuxd!yy          .signature not found!
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Mail Order Knives
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:20:25 GMT

In article <9980@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:
>A datapoint...

	On the top of his head, no doubt...
>
>I broke the top off of a Gerber MarkII. And it wasn't very difficult. 

	Well shoot, it's only a 420 alloy and using it to pry the concrete
	top off your septic tank isn't exactly what the knife was designed
	for.  Sheesh.

>
>As for pocket type blades, I have a Benchmade folder that is relatively
>decent. It was only 40$, has a lame stainless blade, but its easy to
>open one-handed, and has a pretty big belly for a 3.5" blade.

	Can't beat a Clipit.  Granted they are a bit expensive, but IMNSHO
	are well worth the $$.  But they have proven hard to keep a hold of.
	So far I've lost 2 Workers and a Delica.  I guard my new Co-Pilot
	with my life... stay away!  BACK!


	-Andy the rabid
From: achou@plasma.icsl.ucla.edu (Albert Chou)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido and Randori
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:44:30 GMT
Organization: University of California at Los Angeles, EE Dept.

In article <92211.125855GMS@psuvm.psu.edu> GMS@psuvm.psu.edu (Gerry Santoro - CAC/PSU) writes:
>Trying to compare Aikido to other MA's
>(except possibly Tai-Chi or Pa-Kua) is like comparing peaches and 4MB simms.

That depends on whether you've been taught how to fight in t'ai chi.  Most
people, IMO, aren't, but they could be, and perhaps more should before too
few people are around to pass on the knowledge.

Al
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: acevedo@mit.edu (Raul Acevedo)
Subject: Re: MA as therapy for abuse
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:09:35 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.060927.7277@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
ap932@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Larry Cuy) writes: 

   Perhaps it is a sign of the times but it seems to me that if the
   truth be know there are alot of people in martial arts that took up
   this activity as a productive way to heal abuse as a child.

   Whether the proportion of those that engage or seek MA that have been
   abused is greater than that of the general population remains to be
   seen.

   What is your impression of this gathered from people in MA that you
   know well enough to make any sort of judgment?

My experience is that you can't make such a general statement.  Most
martial artists I know have had relatively normal childhoods, though
I've known a couple here and there in which this isn't the case. 
--
Raul J. Acevedo
acevedo@MIT.EDU

Life is a mystery and it's an unsolvable one.  You simply live it through, and,
as you draw your last breath you say "What was that all about?"
		--- Marlon Brando
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: brankin@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (william.t.rankin)
Subject: Re: years for black belt
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 13:01:41 GMT
Keywords: black belt time

In article <seah.711921593@sfu.ca> seah@fraser.sfu.ca (Simon Seah) writes:
>The number of years appears (from e-mail replies) to be very variable,
>as expected.  But might this, indirectly, be related to the fact that there
>may be no standards in the martial arts world? 
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Who decides when a person
>gets a belt, and on what grounds?  When he can break bricks?  When he can
>hit so-and-so point on his opponent's body without breaking a sweat?
>
>Simon
>- still got my A suit on

By George! I think the boy's got it! 

Hold that thought, Simon, your on a good track!
;-)

-bill
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner)
Subject: Re: Diff. betweeREAD/NEWn Eastern and Western thought
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 30 Jul 92 01:54:00 CDT

In article <1992Jul29.205628.292@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_hilbornrs@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>What's the difference between Western and Eastern thought?

 ..... two great anecdotes of five Bad Guys (tm) versus a Wise Old Man (tm)
       deleted... however, I have a question....

>The next thing you hear is the sound of 
>five feet running out the door.

.... so did only two and a half of them run away (I guess the old man
must have put down his chopsticks for those swords for at least a *couple*
seconds...), did they all hop on one leg when they left, or did just one of 
them of average height high-tail it out of there ?

-Lauren