From: machala@delphi.hc.ti.com (Chuck Machala )
Subject: Re: Damned if you do, damned if you don't...
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:03:40 GMT

kovarik@utkux1.utk.edu (SaintMeechTheChaste) writes:

>In article <14184@borg.cs.unc.edu> kimy@monteverdi.cs.unc.edu (Yong-Mi Kim) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul23.200051.20852@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> tcarsten@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Teresa C D Carstensen) writes:
>>>[Stuff about the possibility of it being unethical to seduce students into
>>>various programs by promises of jobs deleted]

>The way I see it, if universities are run from a strictly profit-making
>point of view, then this sort of seduction is no different from any other
>sort of advertizing that is designed to convince someone to buy a product.
>If a university obtains government grants which are proportional to the
>number of registered students, is it also unethical to admit as many students
>as possible to maximize their grant, and keep the curriculum easy so that
>the students remain registered for the minimum length of time so that the
>university gets to keep the grant, and then after this minimum period is
>passed, make the curriculum hard to force bad students to drop out or fail?

>>
>>A friend and I were discussing something similar.  We agreed that
>>many academic departments in universities were being unethical in
>>letting so many people major in those fields.  Departments in
>>question: political science, sociology, psychology, English, history
>>(add your own peeve if you wish).  How many of these people will have
>>decent-paying jobs after they graduate with their bachelor's degrees?
>>How many of these will go to graduate school because they could not
>>find jobs, and after receiving the Ph.D. in English, again not be
>>able to find a job because of the glut of Ph.D.'s in English?
>>

>Hey, Ph.D.'s in physics can't find jobs these days either.

>Should universities be more strict with their admission criteria?
>Should they only admit the students who can most benefit, and spend
>more money per student in providing an education, or should they
>accept anyone who can pay tuition regardless of their ability, and then
>cater to a low common denominator?

>>At my undergraduate institution I noticed how certain departments
>>were quite "cruel" about getting rid of students they did not think
>>would be successful in that area; among them were math, CS, and
>>engineering.  The professors let you know at the introductory course
>>level whether they think you should continue in that major.  Having
>>known people who limped along in some of these majors, graduatee with 2.0
>>GPA's, and were not able to find jobs, I wonder if indeed this practice
>>of early discouragement is "cruel."

>My observation has been that if a lot of students show themselves incapable
>of pursuing a particular course of study, then the course of study is diluted 
>so that they do not fail, and continue paying tuition.  This is certainly
>the case at the University of Tenneesee Dept. of Physics, where the courses
>in the graduate program are taught at a level comparable to 3rd or 4rth year
>courses at the University of Toronto which is where I got my B.Sc.  Of course, 
>when these students go out and try to find a job, they are horribly shocked 
>by what they discover.  No job!   This sort of thing may not be the case at 
>all institutions, but I suspect is quite common at "lesser" universities.

>					Mitch

Here's my two cents which comes from industrial experience. One of the most
valuable assets to have on one's resume is some practical experience. I highly
recommend co-opping every summer if possible. The other is, if possible,
work on a thesis which has some application or need in industry. Don't just
listen to your advisor. If you co-op, you should have a pretty good idea
of some relevant topics. All this is assuming, of course, that you want a
job in industry. If you want to be a prof, it is still a good idea to co-op.
you get more grants from industry that way.

obAngst: Angsters perverting Huxley's Alpha/Beta/Gamma/Delta/Epsilon human
         idea. 

--

"Alms for an ex-leper."

Chuck Machala - Semiconductor Process and Design Center - Texas Instruments
Newsgroups: alt.angst