From: radinsky@spot.Colorado.EDU (Wayne Radinsky)
Subject: Re: prophesies
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:34:38 GMT

eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun) writes:
> Anyone can delude themselves to believe anything they want. But, to make a
> sweeping statement of "fact" is not only naive but down right Stupid!

> Christianity seems to have been spawned out of anger. 
> "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother and wife and
> children and brethren and sisters, yea and his own life also, he cannot be
> my disciple" [Luke 13,v.26]

This is usually taken to mean Jesus should be =more important= than anyone
else in your life.  Although that is what it says... maybe Christians
should take this verse more seriously :-).

> Besides it seems that it was intended for a homosexual following as this
> messiah never had any other apostles except men. Any woman that followed was
> no more than what today is recognized as a "fag hag" which is a woman that
> follows homosexual men in adoration without any concern of their own
> development whether to be gay or straight.

If you'd simply said you've been treated unfairly by Christians, I
would say that's understandable.  But this... really makes me laugh!
Besides, most Christians don't believe Jesus was homosexual, so I think
you could improve your Christian-bashing by sticking to attacking
things they =do= believe.

Actually what's interesting about Jesus isn't his homosexuality, it's
his =asexuality=.  It seems to me like he personally had no interest in
sex whatsoever.

> This malarky of "love" is overrated! There has been more ignorant useless
> wars in the name of love or minding other people's business by the Christian
> than Asshurbanipal thought to humble his neighbours. 

Is "Asshurbanipal", like, an obscure historical figure, Or What?

> The difference between the Christian and the Pagan seems to have been their
> hypocricy. They never admit that their subjugation is for their ultimate
> self gratification or greed!

Exactly... In fact Christians are expected to be =perfect=.  People
can't handle it when they do bad things like everybody else.

>>>: Please don't think that I have a I'm-better-than-you attutide.  I'm not.  
>: Jesus died for me as well.<<
>  
> So did Socrates, Osiris, Prometheus, and a thousand other steroetype
> messiahs that history recorded long before Paul decided to make a
> Greco-Israelite religion called Christianity riping off everybody else's
> ideas and calling it their own.
> 
> Christianity >is< a FALSE religion. Based on hypocracy, politics and self
> agrandisement. It is fanatical and in the end, through their mental
> masturbation screws up your mind with moot, unarguable paradoxes that hold
> their root in "belief".

I think the problem isn't that they're paradoxical, but that they're
unarguable.  There's an unwritten rule in Christian culture that you
can't disagree with a preacher.

> Well, hell, if you want to "believe" that your
> computer is "god" and that it has come into being so "save" your
> soul....COOL! but don't expect everybody to buy that just because you said
> it was so.

It is too so!  It's called Micro-Salvation!  Just touch those fingers
to the keyboard and keep those eyes on the screen...  (Just kidding).

> Words have a way to be easily misinterpreted, mislead and confuse a lot of
> people. The Testaments that Christians use are a translation of a
> translation etc. Few are they that can read Hebrew let alone understand it
> to grasp the slighted metaphor of the Old Testament. Even less can read
> classical Greek which the original, alleged new testament were written in.

It's true that "words have a way to be easily misinterpreted, mislead
and confuse a lot of people."  This happens regardless of the
translations -- how many times have you seen somebody argue about just
what "satanist", or some other word, means exactly?  It's been said
that you can prove anything using the Bible -- this isn't because of
the translating (actually I expect the translations are quite good),
it's because people read whatever they want into the text.

> Most people base their "truths" to cinematographic epics, or novels that
> glorify a passivity that is foreign both to the Jew and Christian. 
>
> No, there was no one who made any such sacrifice. For if you understand the
> metaphor intended this alleged sacrifice was to release humanity of original
> sin from adam eating the apple with his wife that cursed mankind and set
> them to be (if only adam and eve were the first man and woman made ;-)] a
> generation of motherfuckers!

I would say whoever said "Jesus is the second Adam" definitely understood
that metaphor!  And you understand it perfectly yourself.

> Come on now, wake up! Spout your snivelling sanctimonious garbage on
> Alt.Christian maybe they'll buy it. But from what I understand alt.christian
> is moderated which means that they prefer to keep fanatics the like of you
> well under control!

I didn't know there was an alt.christian.  If there is I don't get it at
this site.  There is a soc.religion.christianity, and it is moderated --
not only are the fanatics kept under control, but the moderator gets the
last say on everything.

>>>: I have been suicidal and into pornography,....<<
> 
> Oh, really???? How cool. Maybe it's time you graduated and start doing some
> of that which your voyeurism has taught you...hmmmmmmn?

It's worth pointing out that sex is a natural part of being human, and
when you repress it (or attempt to repress it), it comes out in
unnatural forms (i.e. S&M, child molestation, pornography, etc (use
your imagination).  Some people would include promiscuity, pornography,
& homosexuality, and "other").

I would hazard a guess Mark's problem with pornography was he couldn't
stop.  (But I should let him speak for himself!)  I think, even for
someone who didn't have any moral qualms about porn, this would be a
Bad Thing.

> There is certainly no *need* for you to kill yourself. Life is an exciting,
> scintillating experience. The only problem is that you have to "come out" of
> your shell.  

That's absolutely right.  That's what Christianity's all about, because you
get forgiven, and then you're free from the guilt that chains you up,
right?

You need to become free to be yourself.  I definitely agree with you
there.

> If we were to meet, I could open doors that you never dreamt existed! And in
> the end you'll look back only to see that the prophets and messiahs were no
> more than a figment no less than a pillar of salt could define. ;-)

Hmmm... I'm curious what this could be about!  (Don't come back and
tell us about any bad trips!!)

>>>: But He still loves me.  He has brought peace to my life.
>>>: I hope you'll let Him do the same for you. If I can help, let me know.
>: 
>: Sincerely,
>: 
>: Mark<<
> 
> I doubt that! For you still have that gnawing desire within you...;-)
> "To have a need, and to deny it is to create desire.....
> To have desire and to supress it, it to create neurosis....."

Or perhaps it is =you= who has that gnawing desire within you...  What
is it you desire?  What do you =really= want out of life?  (That's the
Ultimate Question, isn't it?)

> The blind cannot lead the blind, less they kill themselves in their own
> stumbling... before you can hope to find so comfortable a companion, perhaps
> it is you who should eat of that fruit of knowledge for in the days you eat
> of that fruit, and its reality, you may be as godssssssss...

Oh, Eshin-Fun, I'm bowing before you... not!

Wayne.

jute@sday.pulp.nullnet.fi (Jussi Kantola) writes:
> @expert.cc.purdue.edu (adamsma@expert.cc.purdue.edu) writes:
> 
>> Remember this though:  whether or not you believe doesn't change the fact
>> that Jesus is the Son of God.  He did die for your sins, and He loves you.
> 
> Wrong.  Jesus and God exist _only_ because of faith, because someone believes
> they exist.  _Anything_ can exist, if there's someone to believe it.  They
> may exist in _your_ world, in _your_ mind, but they are a bad joke in
> _my_ world.

Holy, cow! It's true!  Everybody check out the new stereo system I just
believed into existence!!  Why didn't somebody tell me this before!!!

eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun) writes:
> Anyone can delude themselves to believe anything they want.

Wayne's corrolary: believing something does =not= make it so.

Wayne

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