HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: asp+@pitt.edu (Anandeep Pannu)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Subject: Re: Cargo planes as Bombers
Date: 14 Oct 92 00:27:23 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Oct13.162322.1@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu> cvalj001@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu (Daemon Hobbs) writes:
>
>     Does anyone know any details about cargo aircraft being used as bombers in
>the post-WWII era?  I've heard all about the MC-130 and the 15000lb.  Does any
>one know of any uses of the An-24, 26, 32 's bomb racks?  Also, if you wanted
>to drop bombs out the ramp of say a C-130 how would you do it?  How would you
>ensure accucracy?  Also, does anyone know anything about mortar shells being
>used as bombs from Hueys or other aircraft?  Yet one more thing, does any know
>any detailed text of the use of Indian cargo planes as bombers during the 1970
>Indo-Pakistani War?
>
>-- 
>---
>Daemon E. Hobbs, Cadet, AFROTC
>Senior, (Carto/RS/GIS) 
>Cal Poly Pomona Geography Dept.
>Email: cvalj001@csupomona.edu
>Phone: 714-869-3590

 I do not know of any detailed text on the Indo Pak Air War which was in 
 December 1971 (and not 1970) by the way. But my father was a multi engine
 pilot in the Indian Air Force and retired as a Group Captain. He did not
 participate in the bombing by the AN-12s (Antonov AN-12s roughly the Soviet
 equivalent of the C-130) but had several close friends who were in those 
 squadrons. This bombing was carried out by Nos 12 and 72 Sqns (I think) from 
 Chandigarh AFB in the Punjab. 

Basically the AN12s had 1000 pounder bombs (of British make used by IAF 
Canberras and Hunters) which were mounted on pallets and rolled out of the 
rear  loading ramp. These were carried out from medium altitude in a kind of 
carpet bombing attack. The attacks were carried out in the Changa Manga 
forests in Pakistan. It is believed that a Pakistani tank regiment which 
was laagered there was obitlerated. The An-12s also used napalm in drop
tanks to set the forest afire. 

As for the AN-12s there were no casualties mainly because the Pakistani 
Air Force which was usually quite effective was in a state of disarray due
to the civil war with East Pakistan (now Bangladesh). Even so one Mirage
did get close to an AN-12 which went ridge hopping to get rid of it. 
Considering that almost all these attacks were at night it must have been
hairy ! 

The AN-12s were well liked by the pilots but my father would not give up
his seat in the Super Constellations that were then used for Maritime Patrol
with 6 Sqn IAF. He thought the AN-12s primitive compared to his beloved
Connies. The AN-12s had only one section of the cargo compartment pressurised
and had unpowered controls. The Connies sighted the Sixth Fleet sent by 
President Nixon to impose a cease fire but thats another story !

As for texts there arent any; all the info I gathered was through my father 
or some publicity brochures of the IAF. 

Anandeep Pannu
From: geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Subject: Re: Aurora?
Followup-To: rec.aviation.military
Date: 8 Oct 1992 19:09:38 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Menlo Park, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: purplehaze.corp.sun.com



In article <mcewin.718504374@neptune> mcewin@convex.com (Bill McEwin) writes:

>Just for interest, everyone seems to forget that the Canadians have an
>Aurora also.  That is the name of their ASW aircraft also called the
>CP-140.  It uses basically the same Lockheed airframe as the US P-3C, but
>has completely different and, in many cases, more advanced avionics and
>crew compartment layout.  


The CP-140 uses the ASW suite from the S-3 Viking, from what I've read.
As for the improved crew compartment layout, an Aurora visited NAS Barbers
Point while I was stationed there.  I didn't go aboard, but there was an 
article about it in the base newspaper.  Apparently it's downright luxurious
by P-3 standards, with carpeting, an airliner-style flush toilet instead of
a honey bucket, and hot & cold running water as well as a modified cabin
arrangement.

The airplane was in Hawaii for an international naval exercise called 
RIMPAC, held every two years; there were also participants from Australia
and New Zealand (both with P-3Bs) and Japan, with several Kawasaki P-2s,
the turboprop version.  The previous exercise was the last time the old
Canadair CP-107 Argus participated, and I was able to get aboard for a look.

I was really impressed, both by the plane's size (that's a *big* machine,
much larger then the Orion) and particularly by its condition.  This was
a Mark 1, the version with the bigger chin-mounted radome built in the late
Fifties, and it was absolutely spotless inside and out -- it looked like
it couldn't have been more than a couple of years old.  It was great to
see an airplane so well taken care of.


Geoff


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Geoff Miller                    + + + + + + + +        Sun Microsystems
geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM  + + + + + + + +     Menlo Park, California
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
From: hhtra@usho21.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Subject: Re: F/A-18E/F bad idea?
Date: 13 Oct 92 22:20:07 GMT
Organization: Chevron


  The A-6's did a good job in Iraq.  So did the F-18's.

  With Russia gone, who else is there to beat on that 
  would require something better?

  Just repair the old A-6's and start building new ones.
  It should be cheaper.
From: ryan@star.enet.dec.com (Dan Ryan)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Subject: Re: KC-135 Question
Date: 9 Oct 92 00:00:08 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua, NH USA


     If you release the boom it will fall to the ground - actually, there
     have been cases where on landing the boom fell and they dragged 
     the sucker all down the runway to the ramp...

     On a KC-10 there is hydraulic control (as well as a probe fueler)

     dan

In article <ld925tINNd84@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>, geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller) writes...
> 
> 
>There's something about the KC-135 that's never been clear to me.  I
>realize that the refuelling boom is "flown" into position on the 
>receiving aircraft with the pair of control surfaces mounted toward 
>the end, but is this supplemented in any way, say with hydraulics?  
> 
>In other words, if the boom's uplock were to be released while the 
>plane was on the ground, would the free end of the boom simply drop 
>to the tarmac?
> 
> 
>Geoff
> 
> 
>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
>Geoff Miller                    + + + + + + + +        Sun Microsystems
>geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM  + + + + + + + +     Menlo Park, California
>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
> 
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Dan Ryan                              |                              |
| VMS Networking, End Systems Group     |   ryan@star.enet.dec.com     |
| Digital Equipment Corporation         |                              |
| 110 Spit Brook Road, ZKO1-3/J10       +------------------------------|
| Nashua, NH 03062-2698 USA                                            |
|                                                                      |
| It's not my fault (or digital's) you don't like what I say...        |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Airshows At Edwards And Moffett
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:57:53 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <1992Oct6.173725.29848@nntpserver.chevron.com> hwcco@chevron.com (Bill Corea) writes:
>This may be a __real__ stupid question, but is there any hard
>information on "Aurora"? ...

Lots, all highly classified.

Speculation is that it's an SR-71 replacement.  Maybe.

There have been some sightings of strange things, and some sonic booms
that seem to be made by something highly supersonic.  It is distinctly
possible that there are two or more types of aircraft involved.  It is
also possible that none of them is called Aurora; that name showed up
accidentally in some Congressional documents some years ago, but there
is no indication it was actually built, whatever it was.

>Is Lockheed the contractor?

Probably, for at least some of this.  The USAF, or somebody, is paying
them a lot of money for "classified programs", much more than known
projects can account for.
-- 
There is nothing wrong with making      | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
mistakes, but... make *new* ones. -D.Sim|  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
From: mb009b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Wombat's Revenge)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Subject: Re: AFROTC or USAF ?
Keywords: Who's out there?
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:19:53 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

Hi, 
I just read your article asking for people like me to let you know we're 
here.  I'm currently a C/4C enrolled at detachment 538, which is at RIT.
I am attending the University of Rochester however, which makes getting
to Leadership Lab at 6:30 am lots of fun, especially with late night 
fire drills the night before the pft.  I am an EE major, and thinking of
possibly majoring in CSC as well.  If any of you POC out there have any 
advice for a little GMC like me feel free to E-Mail me, especially
since I feel very clue less a lot of the time.  But I'm learning.
				Wombat's Revenge
				a.k.a Maura Brown
				mb009b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
******************************************************************************
When Vogon Poets get you down think 42, and above all DON'T PANIC!
******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: Aurora (was Re: Airshows At Edwards And Moffett)
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
	<Bvrx9B.E5x@zoo.toronto.edu>
	<1992Oct9.020701.5413@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 03:24:04 GMT

On Fri, 9 Oct 1992 02:07:01 GMT, q1hl@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Nameless CS Student) said:

Chris> In article <Bvrx9B.E5x@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:
>In article <rob.718330646@blacks> rob@blacks.jpl.nasa.gov (Rob Fatland) writes:
>>Also an Aurora low pass, low speed fly by.
>
>How boring.  Who wants to see an Aurora going *slow*? :-)  (Aside from the
>Aviation Leak photographers, that is...)

Chris> I missed the original post, but have to wonder if maybe the Aurora
Chris> expected to attend the airshow isn't the Canadian Forces Lockheed
Chris> CP-140 Aurora, our main Anti-Submarine Warfare / Arctic + Offshore
Chris> Patrol aircraft.  You know it as the P-3 Orion in the U.S.

No, it was a joke.  I listed what was likely to be on static and
aerial display and Rob suggested the putative black Aurora.  

I called over to the EDW PAO office and they pretty much confirmed the
list that I posted earlier, with the exception of the A-7.  There will
be no A-7 aerial display; they retired the A-7s here last week.

Did I remember to exhort everyone who goes to the open house to
patronize the booth for NASA Dryden's Judy Janisse Child Development
Center (our new on-site day care center)?  They have nice stuff for
kids and very attractive hats for all ages.  I wear their hats myself,
if you want an endorsement.  Get the jungle print if you want to have
one just like mine.  There's a lot of Shuttle and SR-71 stuff at the
Dryden Gift Shop booth, too.

I personally prefer to shop at the various squadron and NASA booths
rather than the professional air-show-dealer booths.  This is mostly
because the amateurs have unique merchandise specific to the
Base/Station/installation, rather than the more generic merchandise of
the professionals.  This show is a major money raiser for the
squadrons, too, and I always feel a lot of sympathy for the junior
officers and their spouses, slaving away while we stroll around
gawking at the planes, since I used to volunteer for the Gift Shop
booth.

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous
From: rfauteux@orion.oac.uci.edu (Robert Fauteux)
Subject: Re: AFROTC or USAF ?
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Distribution: usa
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:44:47 GMT

Dave <JDO103@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:

>  As a side note... another guy I know, whose dad was the PAS ended up getting
>his assignment, didn't like it, and supposedly had his dad change it for him,
>while others who ranked higher have to wait for the same slot...

You really have to wonder about things like that.  I remember during
my senior year, a few days before they went through and cut pilot
slots, they called each of us into the office and started asking us
some questions.  One of them was they wanted to know if we had a
"sponsor", a [high-ranking] relative in the military.  My friend and I
asked them what that had to do with anything, and the cadre' replied
that they were required to ask by HQ.  It would be interesting to find
out the correlation between that and who got to keep their slots...


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     /    /    ____/ __  __/  | Robert A. Fauteux <rfauteux@rtfm.acs.uci.edu>
    /    /    /         /     | Office of Academic Computing, UC Irvine
   /    /    /         /      |-----------------------------------------------
  /    /    /         /       | "An anteater??!!
______/  ______/  ______/     |  ...now what the hell kind of mascot is that?"

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
From: rjbaucom@eos.ncsu.edu (RYAN JEFFREY BAUCOM)
Subject: Re: Military career?
Originator: rjbaucom@c00547-106ps.eos.ncsu.edu
Keywords: AFROTC ROTC
Reply-To: rjbaucom@eos.ncsu.edu (RYAN JEFFREY BAUCOM)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 22:34:43 GMT


|> In article <BvvGEL.2yK@zoo.toronto.edu>,
|> 	henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:
|> 
|> > The bottom line right now is that supply of qualified candidates exceeds
|> > demand, so if you aren't quite young with perfect vision, forget it.
|> 
|> Quite right.  And people don't understand when I tell them that what
|> we need most of all is a good, long, worldwide conventional war.
|> 

Yes, the pilot slots are *extremely* competitive.  If your goal is to be a
military pilot, and you REALLY WANT IT BAD, you can still make it, even with
the budget cuts, etc.

I don't know about the Navy/Marines program, but the Air Force takes most of
its pilots from the Air Force Academy (according to an article I read last
summer).  It takes a good number from ROTC (I forget exact percentages).
OCS programs take almost none!  The bottom line is, either get an Academy
appointment or go thru ROTC.

Since the number of candidates is much greater than the number of slots, the
Air Force can take the "cream of the crop."  Physically, you must be
(practically) perfect.  Vision, height, weight, etc.  You must be physically
fit and make good grades as well.  The point is to get noticed, distinguish
yourself as a good, hard-working cadet, and maybe you'll get a slot.

Nav slots are extremely competitive also, but I'd say not to the same extent
that pilot slots are.

I've known cadets (I'm a second-year cadet here at NCSU, Det 595) that
have lost their Nav slots, even as a senior POC.  Things like that happen.



Ryan Baucom (C/3C, AFROTC Det 595)
rjbaucom@eos.ncsu.edu

-- 
 _ _________________________________________________________
(_)_________________________________________________________)
  | Ryan J. Baucom          Sophomore : Computer Engineering|
  | rjbaucom@eos.ncsu.edu    North Carolina State University|
  |                                                         |
  |   "I've suffered for my music, now it's your turn!"     |
  |                                             -Neil Innes |
  |_________________________________________________________|
  (_)________________________________________________________)
Xref: sparky rec.aviation.military:142 alt.binaries.pictures.misc:11391
From: clements@cs.utexas.edu (Paul C. Clements)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military,alt.binaries.pictures.misc
Subject: Head-Up Display (HUD) image needed
Followup-To: poster
Date: 16 Oct 1992 11:53:22 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: lychee.cs.utexas.edu
Keywords: hud, fighter, gif, jpg

Where can I get an image (gif, jpeg, whatever) of a tactical aircraft's
Head-Up Display (HUD)?    It can be a photo or a drawing/diagram.   I'm
not fussy about the type of aircraft, although my choices are (in order):
                   A-7, F-18, A-6, any other.

The picture will be used in a technical report being written with
FrameMaker, which is why an electronic image is preferable to a hard-copy
photo.


Thanks,
pc
From: trujillo@optima.UUCP (Clorinda Trujillo)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Subject: Re: AFROTC or USAF ?
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:08:59 GMT
Distribution: usa

From article <rfauteux.718566983@orion.oac.uci.edu>, by rfauteux@orion.oac.uci.edu (Robert Fauteux):
> 
> Now, I know things have changed since I went through this whole
> process (I picked up my preliminary pilot slot as a GMC, went to camp
> and got the "permanent" [yeah-right!] slot, and got commissioned and
> am waiting till April '93.) I heard something about now they don't
> give out allocations until the Senior year?  What *is* the current
> process if you want to fly? 
> 
> Rob
> 
I am a senior in AFROTC, Det 020.  I am not trying to get a pilot slot.
However, I do know that AS 200s get camp assignments without getting
categorized.  They compete for pilot slots, etc. during their junior
year.  I believe application starts in the spring so detachments can see
what their qualities are for the commander rating.  The logic behind
this is that cadets will want to be officers first.  However, only
about half the people are happy with this.  Those that are going
for tech or non-tech slots are kind of indifferent.  Everyone else
is usually stressing out about whether or not they will do their job
well and 'visibly' enough to rank high enough to be considered for
a pilot slot.

Clo

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
From: randy@ms.uky.edu (Randy Appleton)
Subject: Re: F/A-18E/F bad idea?
    <1992Oct12.175504.21680@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> 
    <DAVEG.92Oct13152339@nighthawk.clearpoint.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 07:22:42 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

You wrote ....

As a related aside, how do you justify the F-18E/F vs. a QuickStrike
F-14 Tomcat?  The F-14 mod had a *GUARANTEED* price LESS than the
F-18.  It also has significant payload and range advantages over the
F-18.

I write ...

Really.  Is this in comparason to ungrading the F-14's or is this
whole new F-14's.  Do you know any numbers?

-Thanks

-Randy
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
From: aboyd@quantum.on.ca (Andrew Boyd)
Subject: Re: Military career?
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 18:38:46 GMT
Organization: Quantum Software Systems

In article <1992Oct13.033356.9838@physiol.su.OZ.AU> 
john@physiol.su.OZ.AU (John Mackin) writes:
>> The bottom line right now is that supply of qualified candidates exceeds
>> demand, so if you aren't quite young with perfect vision, forget it.
>
>Quite right.  And people don't understand when I tell them that what
>we need most of all is a good, long, worldwide conventional war.

On a more historical note, it's interesting that countries who win
wars promptly punish their military for being victorious.  The military
tends not to be a very good place to be in peacetime, what with the 
severe budgets cuts, but endless chickensh*t.

----
#include <std.disclaimer>
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
From: thughes@lonestar.utsa.edu (Toby . Hughes)
Subject: Re: Cargo planes as Bombers
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 21:01:08 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.125941@usho72.hou281.chevron.com> hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes:
>
> Air Force Magazine always has such stories of valor and humor every
> year or so.  I'll dig through the back issues and look.  I think the
> current issue has something about C-117's taking over the "Puff the
> Magic Dragon" (?) role from the C-47's.
>
> I remember one about C-117's being used with all sorts of bombs from
> 50 - 2000 lbs and simply rolling them off the ramp.  I think they
> were used mostly for harassment, mostly at night.  CEP was something
> like 1 mile!

>
> TRAVIS
> hhtra@hou281.chevron.com


Travis,

Could you possibly mean C-119?  The C-117 was basically a souped-up C-47,
while the 119 (Flying Boxcar) DID have a ramp between the booms for rearward
loading, unloading, and conceivably, bombing.

TH
From: albert@sc.hp.com (Albert Alcorn)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Subject: Re: Airshows At Edwards And Moffett
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:44:12 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Semiconductor Test Systems
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

When is the airshow at Moffett?  I heard it was next week, Oct 20(ish),
then I heard it was this weekend, Oct 10.

Also, any idea who will be there, and when they will be flying in?


Albert Alcorn
Digital IC Test products
Semiconductor Systems Center
(408|T) 553-7482
albert@sc.hp.com
Xref: sparky rec.aviation.military:99 rec.aviation.misc:115
From: wsanders@ffeine (Wiley Sanders)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Blue Angels Rehearsal Schedule
Date: 12 Oct 1992 23:38:51 GMT
Organization: S.M.C.C. C.M.D. P.E.S. Support Services
Distribution: ba
Reply-To: wsanders@ffeine.corp.sun.com (Wiley Sanders)
NNTP-Posting-Host: ffeine.corp.sun.com

101 between 85 and 237 will be closed at the following times
for Blue Angel rehearsals:

Wednesday, 1 to 1:30
Thursday, 1:30 to 2:00
Friday, 1:30 to 2:00

and the alleged show time is 3 to 3:30 Saturday and Sunday, although
they've always been late every time I've seen them. The freeway will
be closed for the show times as well.

Go watch 'em and amortize your tax dollars at work. Estimating F18
operation cost at $50,000 per flight hour, we're looking at $750,000
total cost for the show, based on 6 aircraft and 2 1/2 hours of 
flight time. If 150,000 people see the show that's only six bucks
each. What a deal.

-w

--
"True love is learning to love your lover's obsessions,
or at least being able to say '...oh...that's nice...'"
                                                        -Greg Brown