From: achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jeff Achenbach)
Subject: Re: Vegetarianism and abortion (was Re: Speciesism)
Organization: TI Semiconductor Process and Design Center
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 16:01:46 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.030604.4935@cbfsb.cb.att.com> motto@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (mary.rita.otto) writes:
>In article <1992Dec23.175438.25157@advtech.uswest.com> steven@advtech.uswest.com ( Steve Novak) writes:
>Further, in order to challenge this disrespect and the opinion that
>there were surplus humans on the planet, I asked him why he did not
>choose suicide.  I felt that the answer to the question would be quite
>revealing;  why would a man persist in continuing to live if he felt
>it were morally wrong?  How could a man justify his continued life
>without having to refute the statement that there were too many people?
>Perhaps more disturbingly, how would this man select which should live
>and which should die, starting with himself?  It is a fascinating
>question, and all based on his assertion that there is a population
>surplus and that addressing that surplus was a moral issue.
>

I, too, believe the planet as a whole to be vastly overpopulated. As a 
teenager, I considered suicide as the best thing I could do for the planet.
I was convinced (by my father. No, I didn't try to kill myself. It was a
philosophical discussion) that by living, I could help convince others to
live a lower impact lifestyle, and that some of these could someday make
a positive contribution to the environment.
   Now, I do believe that all people are entitled to equal and fair treatment
under the law in our (U.S.A.) society. But all are not created equal, and
the differences become greater as life goes on. I realize that in some 
moral (religious?) sense, some people feel human life is inherently precious
and valuable. Rationally, I can't convince myself that I have any real 
feelings for human animals I have never met, communicated with, or seen.
The many injustices in the world today indicate to me that most of humanity
does not share any great love for same.
   I would advocate voluntary (with tax incentives) birth control methods
(I don't consider abortion to be birth control) and stricter limits on 
immigration for the USA. I, and many others of my generation, have chosen
to have no children, or only one or two, for the express reason of improving
the quality of life in this country. Our efforts are negated by a government
which allows 800,000(?) immigrants per year, and tax incentives to promote
having children. The burgeoning population results in overdevelopment of
already populated areas, and development of our wild places, which results
in a decreased quality of life, IMO. 
   Big cities disgust me. They are filthy, congested, and far more dangerous
(due to these wonderful creatures called humans) than any wilderness I've 
ever been in. After 10 years in a large city, and most of my life previously
spent in cities of around 100,000 population, I fail to see any virtue in 
large numbers of people. A smaller number with a higher standard of living
(as defined, of course, by me) would be far preferable. 

Jeff Achenbach
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals