From: kellmeye@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (kellmeyer steven l)
Subject: Re: Roe v. Wade for Men!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 03:56:15 GMT

kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy) writes:

>In article <Bw49xJ.B2G@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> kellmeye@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (kellmeyer steven l) writes:
>>kevin@cfctech.cfc.com (Kevin Darcy) writes:
>>
>>>In article <Bvx7Bo.DzG@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> kellmeye@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (kellmeyer steven l) writes:
>>>>
>>>>Ok.  But the delivery of the raw material HAD to be accepted by the
>>>>receiver in order for child manufacture to take place.  The supplier is
>>>>legally forbidden to have a legal voice in manufacturing decisions.
>>>>Thus, any damages which may ensue from manufacturing a product from 
>>>>a freely accepted supplier of raw material can only be the manufacturer's.
>>>>The supplier loses all control, and all rights, at the moment of delivery.
>>>>
>>>> [...froth, drool...]
>>
>>>What the hell are you talking about? "Child manufacture"? "Raw materials"?
>>>We're talking about HUMAN REPRODUCTION, fer crissakes, not heavy industry!!
>>
>>But KEVIN, this is an unviable tissue mass, a cancer, a pox, a worm,
>>a voracious blood-sucking leech, not a HUMAN BEING!!!!  It is nothing
>>and less than nothing.  That is why abortion is legal.  

>Name one pro-choicer who would buy that line, Kellmeyer. If you can't, then
>please dispense with the strawman tactics.

I have heard the fetus called a leech by Gordon Storga.  A cancer by
Jennifer Brindle.  An unviable tissue mass by nearly any pro-abort you
can name, ditto worm.  I confess, I may not be accurate on the "pox" word.

>>I merely agree
>>with the abortion rhetoric by using this sort of language.  

>Wrong. You exaggerate the position so that you can attack a straw man.

If it were straw, there wouldn't be an organization putting together 
money to put this thing up as a test case.  There is.  It's in Virginia.

>>I'm 
>>trying to do you people a favor by using language you won't find
>>offensive.  

>I, a pro-choicer, find your language offensive. The z/e/f is a unique 
>organism. It is alive, human and genetically-distinct. It is *NOT* "raw
>materials". It is *NOT* "... a cancer, a worm, a voracious blood-sucking 
>leech". It is *NOT* "nothing and less than nothing". Please desist using
>these exaggerated terms. Whatever rhetorical value they had has long since
>been lost.

You are unusual in saying that, Kevin.  Carl Sagan also compared the
fetus to a blood-sucking leech in an article in Parade magazine.
You are an incredibly ignorant person if you don't think pro-choicers
say things like that.

>>>You, sir, are a babbling idiot with nothing but a pro-life agenda and some 
>>>cheap scare tactics. Please demanufacture yourself into raw materials, and 
>>>leave us alone...
>>
>>How can you refer to your own rhetorical devices as "cheap scare tactics"?

>To repeat: they are not MY "rhetorical devices", nor any pro-choicer's that
>I know. Please desist with the exaggerated rhetoric.

I suggest you meet more pro-choicers.

>>Supporters of legal abortion are ADAMANT in their insistence that there
>>exists no child until birth.  

>I find such a point mostly irrelevant to the abortion issue. The REAL 
>question is: "does the z/e/f have the right to enslave the woman who is
>carrying it"? Please address this.
>
 
An unviable tissue mass cannot enslave anyone, Kevin.
 
>>I use language which agrees in every particular
>>with that insistence, and you label it froth, drool, and cheap scare tactics.
>>Why???

>Your language EXAGGERATES that view, Kellmeyer. It is intellectually dishonest
>to try and equate a view with its agenda-laden exaggeration. You do NOT think
>for pro-choicers. You do NOT speak for us, either. Stop pretending you do.

>								- Kevin

I speak AS you do.  That upsets you, because I pull together the hidden
strands of your logic and lay it out for all to see.  It isn't pretty.

Steve Kellmeyer
-- 

Steve Kellmeyer 
kellmeye@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: talk.abortion