From: "Ignatius Y. Ding" <ding@HPSMTC1.CUP.HP.COM>
Subject:      Re: Comments on Mak Hong Kon's mails.
Reply-To: "Ignatius Y. Ding" <ding@HPSMTC1.CUP.HP.COM>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 19:11:03 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

DU%ANLCHM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu writes:

>>      I think what most people questioned was the word
>>      "political prisoners." I may believe there are
>>      20 million prisoners in China, even though it
>>      still sounds too high considering that's 5% of the
>
>       Sorry, it should be 2%.

        For those who did not read Harry Wu's book, I would recommend you to
        do so before make comments such as the one above.  It is very
        unfortunate that the CCP enslaves so many Chinese citizens in Laogai
        camps in remore areas, like Qinghai desert and Shangxi mountains, and
        inner cities, disguised factories in the middle of Beijing, Shanghai,
        and others, and it gets away with this unspeakable brutality because
        of the unawareness of this practices of the general public in China and
        abroad.

        I have not read only the book but also have seen the raw materials and
        the database containing detailed accounts of the geographic locations,
        the horribly large number of them, and the huge size of each.  Yes,
        they are not merely housing political prisoners.  The ratio of political
        prisoners versus common criminals has changed dramtically from the 50's
        when there were literally millions of prisoners of conscience locked
        away for decades.  But, the number of political and religious dissidents
        is a non-trival one for certain.  For example, there are tens of
        thousands of regious prisoners in the notorous White Lake Labor Reform
        Farm in Hebei where Chinese catholics have been kept for ten, twenty,
        or thirty years.  Many of them are families from townships in Jiangsu
        and Zejiang provinces.  Priests, bishops, nuns, and laypeople are
        treated most harshly.  Latest victim was Biship Joseph Peter Xueyan
        Fan, the longest held prisoner of conscience in the world.  Visual
        evidence indicates that Bishop Fan, at the age of 84, was severely
        tortured before his death after more thirty years in the Laogai camps.

        In terms of the number or ratio of the prisoners, I would like to
        remind netters a relevant fact in the life of the Chinese citizens in
        the forty years under the Chinese Communist regime:  Ever since the
        early days of 1950's to the new rounds of arests after the 1989
        Tian'anmen Massacre and the religious persecution in 1990-1992, every
        time the CCP starts a wave of political persecution once every four
        years, each work unit and each geographic location were required to turn
        in a fix number of "the enemies of the state", usually 5%.  Over the
        forty-three years of CCP's rule, how many of these accused ended up in
        the Laogai camps?  Furthermore, political prisoners typically got 15 to
        20 years of jail terms and many of their jail time were extended by the
        prison officials by "administrative procedures" without hearings,
        trials, or official sentencing.  Where do you think they are now?
        Vacationing in Xinjiang?  Probably not!

>>      population. But I will NEVER believe thare are 20
>>      million "political" prisoners in China.

        Maybe not.  But keep in mind that the millions of other prisoners are
        human beings too.  They might deserve some form of punishment for the
        crime that they have committed but not treated like slaves.  Please
        read Harry's book and go to see his picture exhabition if you have the
        opportunity, then you will realize how inhumane these individuals are
        treated.

>       I never read Harry Wu's book and do not know how he came
>       up with the number. Political prisoner has its clear
>       definition, even in CCP's dictionary. Again, too much hard
>       feelling may block one's fair judgement.

        CCP and CG officials steadfastly deny that there is such a thing as
        political prisoner in China.  I am very curious which CCP dictionary
        clearly defines it and how they are suppose to be treated.  Any help to
        point to a publication that documents CCP's "officially sanctioned"
        political persecution will be greatly appreciated.  We might finally
        get hold of a piece of evidence of its "state crime against the people
        of China" in writing.  Please post your source of information.  Thank
        you.


        Ignatius Y. Ding