From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Rosignolo)
Subject: Re: : Homosexuality in Islam
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:36:51 GMT

In <1992Dec14.123633@frej.teknikum.uu.se> flax@frej.teknikum.uu.se (Jonas Flygare) writes:

" In article <nabeel.724288533@oracle.sce.carleton.ca>, nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Rosignolo) writes:

" I can see it now.. You die. You come to the gates of Heaven, only to find out
" that God is a Big Black Lesbian, with an attitude.. :-)

    Probably your god whatever it is may look this way or that, do not make a
a generalisation to other people's gods.

" Why is it that so many religious people take upon themselves to carry out
" the 'will' of God? Yes, I have a firm belief, but I hesitate to call myself

   Koran addresses us: O ye believers, cut the thief, flog the drinker, etc.
We do not take upon ourselves, we are required to do so by the religion and if
we do not then we share the crime. Regarding your belief, it shows below that
it is too firm, have mercy to yourself, you are not required to be an angel :->

" christian. I embrace most of the traditional christian values, (it's wrong
" to steal, etc. etc.) but I do believe that any punishment thieves get is
" mainly to protect society. To lean on 'divine will' when meting out punish-
" ment.. well hybris is _one_ word that comes to mind..

   See above. After the Bible spoiled you, we can not do you much.

" I think that religion can be a support to the individual in times of crisis,
" but when you let your whole life be _determined_ by some claimed divine will,
" you are treading dangerous ground. If I cannot bear to take responsibility 
" for my _own_ actions, then how will I ever be able to face my Creator (if 
" there is one) when I die? I will _not_ look up my actions in a _book_ even
" if people _claim_ it was written by God himself. I must determine in my own 
" heart if I do right.

   This berays high logical and scientific ignorance. If there is no reference
to judge things to, then everyone will have their own moral codes, what you
think is wrong someone else will think it is right and people may think that
they are doing humanity a favour by killing the physically ugly, old, and less
firm believers than you.

" Sorry for the emotional outburst.. I tend to get that way when people say

   Well, we can work with that. But feel sorry for yourself that when you
experience this you start babbling incoherently. However, be my guest.

" things like 'We should kill all X so they can recieve the judgement of God'

   No we do not do this. We kill someone (or flog/stone/etc) because it is
their punishment in life and to let other potential criminals think twice
before doing it. God will judge them sooner or later, it makes no difference
to Him.

" Yes! Help all weak and old people on their way! It's a crime to be ugly!
" Outlaw beards! Decapitate anyone with pimples! Jihad! AIIIIGH!

   If you keep this closed minded bigoted attitude you won't be able to 
appreciate what religions are all about, probably Judaism thinks that the ugly
and some kinds of people are unclean. We do not. God does not give you credit
for what He gave you, just for what you do (about it.)

   Jihad is self defense and in somehow similar to what Bush claims to do when
he sends the military east and west. This is to get it closer to your mind.

" Jonas Flygare, 		+ Wherever you go, there you are

             _
 |\_________(@)= |CENSORED|    The above is fiction. I hope you enjoyed it!
   \_\  --/ _/                      
     \=====/       "wa lI qalamon  fI 'onmolI  'in hazaztohO            
        ||            famA  .duRunI   'aLA  'ahoZa   lmohaNadA
        ~~          'i_thA .sUla fawqa .Tirsi waq^o .sarIrihI
                     fa'iNa  .sulIla  lmashrafiYi  lahO  .sudA" 
                                           -- ibn Sana' Al-Mulk