HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: howard@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: need zucchini chocolate cake recipe
Date: 1 Sep 92 11:31:50 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <SHAFER.92Sep1083119@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov>, 
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes:
> 
> In some neighborhoods you must always lock your car or it will be
> full of zucchini when you return to it to drive away!
> 

There is a place on earth where people leave zucchini in your car
if you don't lock it rather than kicking the tires or something 
worse? What a wonderful world it would be if that sort of thing
occurred all over! 

Just when you start losing faith in mankind (and especially on rec.food.veg),
someone comes along with an almost utopian thought. Thanks, Mary. 

-Mary Howard

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: drew@cs.anu.edu.au (Drew Corrigan)
Subject: Re: Nutrasweet infoexit
Organization: Computer Science Department, ANU, Australia
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 05:59:59 GMT

tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com writes:
>Just a couple of things about PKU and Nutrasweet in case someone is 
>worried about having PKU and not knowing:  All newborns in the US are 
>tested for PKU and have been for as long as I can remember.

Babies are also tested in Australia. (I don't know how long this has been
the practise - our daughter is only 3.5yrs old.)

Drew.

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: philhowr@unix.cie.rpi.edu (Bob Philhower)
Subject: Re: (+ a recipe)
Organization: CIE, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:10:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.092017.82@gems.vcu.edu> ktruett@gems.vcu.edu writes:
>Linguine with onions and tomatoes (reproduced w/o permission from "365 
>things to do with noodles" (something like that)):
>
>Cook enough linguine for 4 people.  Drain.  Saute 1 onion. Mix onion 
>into linguine and add 2T butter (melt into linguine-onion mix).  
>Quarter a fresh tomato (not overripe) then slice quarters very thin.  
>Mix tomato slices into linguine and serve immediately.


This is similar to one of my favorite summertime reci-pieces.  The
basic idea is from one of the Moosewood series (probably New Recipies
from Moosewood, but I'm not sure).  I usually do something like:

Combine lots of chopped garden-fresh tomatoes and other chopped FRESH veggies
(mushrooms and/or peppers and/or green onions work well) with a little
(1-2 Tbsp) olive oil and some spices (basil/tarragon/marjoram or
parsley/dill or basil/garlic or whatever).  I sometimes add some
shredded cheese (such as mozzarella) but that is certainly not
necessary.  Then let the mixture sit out for 30-60min.  Don't chill.  
Then cook pasta, combine on plates and serve with fresh corn.

If you keep the pasta and tomato mixture separate, it makes great
left-overs.  (Don't mix the two together until after the pasta is
re-heated!!)  This can make office-mates jealous when you come in
with two containers and actually "cook" at the office.

Robert Philhower		            (philhowr@unix.cie.rpi.edu)
Rensselaer Center for Integrated Electronics                     
CII 6111 / Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute / Troy, NY  12180 / USA
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: butter vs. margarine
Date: 26 Aug 92 01:03:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug26.010312.12377
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Aug25.233308.14524@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Jane.R.Deering@dartmouth.edu (Jane R. Deering) writes:
>> So called low-fat milk, labelled 2% milk, is ~35% fat by calories, and
>> thus does not fall into the guideline that things labelled low-fat must
>> not contain more than 30% fat by calories.  Sometime they're going to get
>> caught.  It's only low-fat in that it's less than whole milk.
>Could you explain what you mean by 35% by calories?  Do you mean that
>35% of the calories come from fat (a claim I would find easy to
>believe) or that 35% of the milk is fat by some calorie-related
>measure?

Well, if I read what you wrote, I'd say they are the same.
Let's work it out:

1 cup		Protein		Carbohydrates		Fat		Total
skim milk:	8.4 g			11.9 g		0.4 g		245 g
		33.6 cal		59.5 cal	3.6 cal		86 cal

1% milk		8.0 g			11.7 g		2.6 g		244 g
		32 cal			46.8 cal	23.4 cal	104 cal

2% milk		8.1 g			11.7		4.7 g		244 g
		32.4 cal		46.8 cal	42.3 cal	121 cal

whole milk:	8.0 g			11.4 g		8.2 g		244 g
		32 cal			45.6 cal	73.8 cal	151 cal

So: skim milk	is  4.1% fat by calories (0.4/86)
    1% milk	is 22.5% fat by calories (2.6/104)
    2% milk	is 34.9% fat by calories (4.7/121)
    whole milk	is 48.8% fat by calories (8.2/151)

These values are from Bowes & Church's _Food Values of Portions Commonly Used_,
14th edition, for the reference impaired.  (Actually this is a reference
everyone should have.  It's great fun.)

>Incidentally, if you mean that 35% of the calories come from fat, it's
>a useful but relative measure -- by that I mean that one should also
>consider the total number of calories & total amount of fat by weight.

Well, the point is that fat is more than twice as calorie-dense by weight
than protein and carbohydrates (9 calories/gram compared to 4 cal/gm).
Describing the fat in food as a percentage of calories (as opposed by
weight or volume) gives you a better sense of the contribution that fat
makes to a food.  Just describing milk as 35% fat by calories tells you
that there's more fat there than you'd imagine by calling it 2% milk
(which is describing 2% by volume.) I mean, stores can call 2% milk
"low fat", compared to regular milk which is 3.3% fat by volume.  But a
figure of 35% fat-by-calories is arguably more meaningful, especially
in something like milk, where so much of it consists of calorie-free
water.

Basically, anything which makes noticing the amount of fat in foods
easier is useful.  There's no right or wrong, really.

>(slightly nervous about posting after reading so many flame wars -- but
>taking a deep breath and trying anyway!)

But this is a useful question.  It's not trying to assert something
which is arguable and potentially misleading.  Even correcting such
an assertion isn't a flame, though it may engender one.  I wouldn't
worry.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: adrothst@athena.mit.edu (Andrew D Rothstein)
Subject: Re: an idea
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:28:05 GMT

I'd prefer the group to remain as one group.  Diversity is fun, and reading this
group would be much duller were it to over-specialize.  

-- 
Andy Rothstein			"If you want to kiss the sky,
adrothst@athena.mit.edu		you'd better learn how to kneel" - U2

*****************************************************************
The views expressed herein are mine own and do not necessarily 
reflect the opinions and beliefs of MIT
****************************************************************
From: gbelli@opal.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: the term "vegetarian"
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:34:54 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA
Originator: news@jade.tufts.edu

In article <1992Aug24.164357.15780@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (james.w.lacey) writes:
> In article <oeZNehC00VpNI990Ff@andrew.cmu.edu> "David F. McWade" <dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>I recently e-mailed the person who puts together the vegetarian FAQ
>>about including such pseudo-terms as "semi-vegetarian",
>>"pesco-vegetarian", etc.  I found those terms offensive basically
>>because use of such terms perpetuates the situation you describe above. 
>>Unfortunately, the FAQ-maker (I forget his name) refused to remove the
>>terms on my suggestion (my argument wasn't as coherently stated as yours
>>is, however).  
>>
>>I would, therefore, like to publicly suggest that those terms be removed
>>from the vegetarian FAQ, please.  Perhaps we can have some debate on
>>this.  (Is the person who makes the FAQ a vegetarian?)
>>...
> 
> We did have this discussion on the net about a year or so ago,
> and it is certainly remains one of the top ten "occasional debates" on
> rec.veg.   The outcome of the earlier discussion was that there is
> no really good term for occasional meat eaters, but semi-vegetarian
> seemed the least confusing.  
> 
> Which reminds me of a true story.  Discussing the "merits" of
> astrology with someone, I was told, "But astrology *is* a kind of
> science:  it is a pseudo-science."
> 
> 
> -- 
>      Jim Lacey  --  my own opinions    
>      email:  att!cbnewsl!jlacey  or  jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
>      D'ou venons-nous? Que sommes-nous? Ou allons-nous?
Okay, I realize I am about to open myself up to all sorts of criticism--so
here goes.  WHO CARES WHAT PEOPLE CALL THEMSELVES!  Is being vegetarian some
 holy status that only the chosen few can aspire to?  I have been a veg-head
 for quite some time, and in all that time I have never felt the need to a)
feel superior, or b)convert the masses.  It is my own personal lifestyle.
That's all.  Of course it would be nice if animals were no longer exploited
by humans, but *it ain't gonna happen*.  Wouldn't it be more constructive 
for us to help each other attain the goal that we are aspiring to--be it to
become more healthy, or end exploitation of animals, or whatever you wish
to accomplish by not eating animals--than to waste our time arguing that a 
person who eats fish cannot possibly have anything in common with those of
us (me included) who eat no animal flesh at all, and that that person is not
entitled to join the exalted ranks of "vegetarian"? (Sorry about the run-on
sentence)  I enjoy most of the postings in this group, but sometimes...talk
about a tempest in a teapot.
     Fire away!!
     Gretchen Belli
     Tufts University
Xref: sparky rec.food.veg:8217 talk.bizarre:27515 news.groups:17183
From: dsc3jfs@nmrdc1.nmrdc.nnmc.navy.mil (Jim Small)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,talk.bizarre,news.groups
Subject: Re: an idea
Date: 26 Aug 92 20:14:27 GMT
Organization: Naval Medical Research & Development Command

In article <5999@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil> misc-test@ucbvax.berkeley.edu writes:
>Valerie Mates writes:
>>Anybody interested in considering splitting rec.food.veg into two
>>groups, one for discussion about vegetarianism and the other for
>>recipes and cooking tips?
> 
>I suggest we adopt the time-tested solution of K*nt Paul Dolan.
>
>How about a CFD for rec.food.veg.advocacy.
>

How about rec.veg.Dolan?
-- 
I love the 3b2
The 3b2 is my friend.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: rigg@osnome.che.wisc.edu (Tim Rigg)
Subject: Re: The Christian Argument for Vegetarianism
Organization: University of Wisconsin-Madison, Chemical Engineering
Date: 31 Aug 92 13:19:40
In-reply-to: abulsari@abo.fi's message of 30 Aug 92 06:58:42 GMT

In article <1992Aug30.065842.2169@abo.fi> abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:

   Thanks to Michael Traub for this article. 
   While he is not willing to post, I will post his excerpts.
   No followups needed or e-mails to him or me.
   This is valuable information for newcomers.

	     The Christian Argument for Vegetarianism


   Excerpted from the book:
   Christianity and the Rights of Animals, (Crossroad Publ. Co., NY)

   by

   Rev. Dr. Andrew Linzey
   Director of Studies
   Center for the Study of Theology
   University of Essex

This is a nice article but a bit disturbing.  It seems that a
"Christian Argument for Vegetarianism" should cite at least a little
scripture.   There are several passages where man is clearly given
permission to eat animals(*).  Any "christian" argument needs to address
those passages. 


* KJV Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you;
even as the green herb have I given you all things. 

and Acts 10 & 11.


tim
--
    ...  Then they came for me,
	   and by that time there was no one
	     left to speak up for me. (Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945)

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: anne@cs.UAlberta.CA (Anne J.R. Nield)
Subject: Re: Vegan dilemma concerning pancreatic enzymes.
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:49:50 GMT

altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:

 Did you know that Anne Nield on another
>>> occasion had to once suffer from the repeated and continuous e-
>>> mail assult of the message, "YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE" for 2 hours one
>>> day?

And the funny part about THIS is that it was BEFORE the discussion
on colon cleansing...:):):)

Anne
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Version 4 of you know what
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:57:12 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:

>Tom Swiss	actually Tom Suiss or Swift, in hiding these days

     Not in hiding, just too damn busy with comps to do much posting...

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@flubber.cs.umd.edu| "Born to die" | Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
          This is a .signature antibody. Vaccinate your .sig!
      "There are some microorganisms that exhibit characteristics of
       both plants and animals.  When exposed to light, they undergo
       photosynthesis and when the lights go out, they turn into
       animals.  But then again, don't we all?"
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: djordan@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (David Jordan)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Issue: splitting the list
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:35:57 GMT
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Regarding splitting the list:  My vote is NO.

I think it might help if the Subject line in some posts were
more specific/descriptive.  People who only want recipes, or only
discussion could more easily select/delete according to their 
preferences.  Personally, I usually skip over the recipes (I own
about 20 vegetarian cookbooks), but I agree with the notion that 
the mix helps keep the list informal and invites the "what do I
tell someone who . . .  " posts which I enjoy.

Just my $.02.
David Jordan
From: carroll@mercury.cis.udel.edu (Mark C. Carroll)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Where to get Soy Milk?
Date: 27 Aug 92 20:44:53 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark

In article <1992Aug27.173238.29335@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> mks@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (manishkumar.sharma) writes:
>My wife is lactose intolerant and hence cannot digest regular milk; even
>lactose-free (lactaid?) milk does her no good. I heard that soy milk
>(made from soy bean?) is a good substitute. Where can I get it? Brand name?
>Health food/specialty stores? I couldn't find it in our local supermarket.

I've never seen it outside of health food stores... I've heard that the
superfresh chain of grocery stores sells their own brand, but I haven't
seen it in the local one.

As for a brand name... my local co-op sells a large variety of them.
I've only tried two, and one was awful and one was quite good. The two
brands were Edensoy, Vitasoy. I _think_ that the vita might have been
the good one, but I'm not sure. (Sorry!)

	<MC>
-- 
|| Mark Craig Carroll: <MC>     ||"Don't ever think that you can't
|| Univ of Delaware, Dept of CIS||    change the past
|| Grad Student/Labstaff Hacker ||       or the future"
|| carroll@udel.edu             ||  - _Love_and_Anger_, Kate Bush
From: nsax.uoregon (Norma Sax)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Request for Soup Cookbook
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:10:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntp.1992Aug28.171030.29055
Organization: university of oregon

I'm looking for a good vegetarian soup cookbook. Any suggestions?

Thanks, norma sax
From: amcmicha@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Andrew McMichael)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Splitters! [:on creating r.f.v.recipies]
Date: 27 Aug 92 01:26:15 GMT
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Va.

I think one of the main points on splitting the group into a
sctrictly r.f.v.recipies forum is because is seems that every
thread in this sub degenerates into a "I'm right, you're wrong",
"You're not really a vegan because you eat jello and pronounce 
'vegan' incorrectly you snob" discussion.  There are many people
[including myself] who subscribe to this newsgroup simply to exchange
recipies, hear about good restaurants and read the occasional veggie
statistic.  a subgroup seems to be about the best way of doing this.
do i hear a call for votes?  That may be the simplest way to solve
this whole dillemma.





Have a nice day.
From: rbw00@ccc.amdahl.com (Richard Wilmot)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: an idea
Keywords: Semiveg
Date: 26 Aug 92 23:56:30 GMT
Reply-To: rbw00@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (  324  Richard Wilmot)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

Could we please get more signal and less noise. The raucousness (sp?)
is spoiling the serenity from summer vacation (without a workstation ==
no netnews => no rec.food.veg.bitch.cliques ).

I am a semi-vegetarian, I guess. I eat almost no meat for health reasons.
Once a week I eat 3 ounces of salmon. I like it and MY doctor says
I should get some Omega-3 oils. This diet, combined with a vigorous
exercise program has been quite successful in my view: serum cholesterol
in 1988 was 283. Now 156. Weight was 198, now 168. This works for me.

So am I a vegetarian? That depends on the audience. Speaking with 
vegetarians I am NOT. Speaking with the waitress in a hash house in
the Southeast US I am a very strict vegetarian. I WANT NO MEAT.
To my parents I am a vegetarian. A very strict one. If not I will
be deluged in prime ribs, bacon, eggs, veal, etc. Things that I should
not and will not eat. Saying "I shouldn't eat that" in the U.S. is
more often a prelude to taking another helping than to actually
foregoing it. Saying "I am a vegetarian" seems to prevent arguments.
With restaurants and airlines it aint even their business WHY I won't
eat their meat. So much for motivation. I agree with vegetarians that
the results are not quite the same for the fish but the motivation
is selfish: live longer and healthier.

BUT MY PROBLEMS ARE MOSTLY IDENTICAL TO ANY OVO-LACTO VEGETARIAN.
I have trouble with family, with relatives, with restaurants, with
conventions, with airlines, and with employers. I am exposed to most
of the same problems as REAL VEGETARIANS. So I am vitally interested
in nutrition problems associated with diet. I am interested in
the advantages of vegetarian diets. I am vitally interested in finding
TASTY non-meat things to eat and I abhor salad bars with heaps of
iceberg lettuce. I have valued the recipes in rfv. I have valued
highly the restaurant recommendations on this board. I have valued
the advice on how to deal with family, airlines, waiters, and
balky juicers. I am even interested in ecological effects of diet
choices (I live here too).

I don't want to see this group split. It is very valuable to me.
Just please DON'T browbeat me to change the REASONS for my food
choices. My reasons are sufficient to me.

But most of all, please argue higher. More facts and checkable 
references. Take the name calling and insults to email.

AM NOT! AM TOO! NOT EITHER. YES YOU ARE! NO I'M NOT!   Not.


Live long and prosper.
-- 
  Dick Wilmot  | I declaim that Amdahl might disclaim any of my claims.
                 (408) 746-6108
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: corrections and additions to "famous vegetarians"
Date: 1 Sep 92 12:53:33 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

Someone posted a list of "famous vegetarians"; it's expired here so I can't
quote it.  Two mentioned were Plato and Socrates.  I hadn't heard that and
didn't believe it so I looked up what sources I had.  Diogenes Laertius
says nothing about Plato's food preferences, but does say something about
Socrates: that he didn't like spicy foods.  Surely if he had something as
unusual as vegetarianism to report he'd have put that in too?  And Socrates'
last words (as reported by Plato) were "we owe a cock to Aesculapius".  A
vegetarian asking his friends to sacrifice chickens?

So what is the source for this?  Is there a classical one, or did some
recent writer just mix up Plato, Socrates and Pythagoras?

Some more to add: one is the composer Michael Tippett, a rather good
advertisement for it: he looks thirty years younger than he actually is.
And the Scottish writer James Kelman, though I don't think anyone would
guess it from his work (he is a friend of Kathy Acker's and has a similar
line in violent obscenity).

Another is Adolf Hitler.  Hitler describes his conversion - I think in
"Mein Kampf", I haven't seen the text first-hand - as coming after he saw a
Turkish piano-mover lift a piano singlehanded and asked him how he did it;
the Turk attributed his strength to his vegetarian diet.  Hitler is said to
have had only one subsequent lapse, sampling Prague sausage after the
invasion of Czechoslovakia.  There's a superb photomontage from the 30s by
the Communist artist John Heartfield where a bird representing the German
people is confronted with a Hitler-headed butcher holding an enormous
knife; the caption is "Don't be afraid, he's a vegetarian".

Arguing for a moral stance on the grounds that some famous person also held
it is rather childish.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: des@helix.nih.gov (David E. Scheim)
Subject: Re: an idea
Organization: NIH
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:45:53 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.142805.14906@athena.mit.edu> adrothst@athena.mit.edu (Andrew D Rothstein) writes:

>I'd prefer the group to remain as one group.  Diversity is fun, and reading this
>group would be much duller were it to over-specialize.  

>-- 
>Andy Rothstein                 "If you want to kiss the sky,
>adrothst@athena.mit.edu                you'd better learn how to kneel" - U2

>*****************************************************************
>The views expressed herein are mine own and do not necessarily 
>reflect the opinions and beliefs of MIT
>****************************************************************

I also prefer to see the mix of recipies and discussion of health and other 
issues in one board as now maintained.  As for monotonous trading of insults 
on the same old issues, I think these don't belong on any forum.

/*********************************************************************/
/*                      --- David E. Scheim ---                      */
/* BITNET: DES@NIHNEI31                                              */
/* INTERNET: desl@helix.nih.gov          PHONE: 301 496-2194         */
/* CompuServe: 73750,3305                  FAX: 301 402-1065         */
/*                                                                   */
/* DISCLAIMER: These comments are offered to share knowledge based   */
/*   upon my personal views.  They do not represent the positions    */
/*   of my employer.                                                 */
/*********************************************************************/
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: pinky@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Burbank)
Subject: aspertita(sp?)
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 01:30:25 GMT

we see this vegitarian cook show on PBS early sat. morning here in seattle
called cooking with korma, or something like that.  he uses a spice
which is the sap of some plant.  two questions, what is the plant and
where in the hell can we find this?  he uses it in everything.