HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tes@gothamcity.uucp (Thomas E. Smith [LORAL])
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: Emergency Evac/Reentry Vehicle
Date: 27 Jul 1992 00:45:08 GMT
Organization: Software Technology Branch - NASA/Johnson Space Center

>Are there plans in the works or in development for an emergency evacuation
>re-entry capable vehicle?  Might it be like an escape pod, which could re-enter
>the earths atmosphere or would it be like a lifeboat in that all it does is
>get the occupants up and away from the space station?
 
Yes. One of the requirements for the space station is that it have an escape 
vehicle. Nasa began with an escape vehicle plan costing $2 billion that would
glide back to earth shuttle-style. Yes, this is the cost of an entire shuttle. 
A very DUMB thing to do when Nasa is fighting for every penny for the Space 
Station. All you need is an Apollo style capsule big enough to hold the crew
and cheaply land in the water. Fortunatly, (and even better) they are 
considering buying a Russian Soyuz space capsule. 
 
Of course it were up to me, I'd have the crew get in their space suits, grab
a retro rocket, a parachute, and a heat shield and do a Space Dive!!!
Hey, it would be the ride of their lives :)
 
                                                             Tom the Smith
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The opinions stated here in no way reflect |
           the opinions of the             | Tom Smith                    
   Galactic Hyperspace Planning Council.   | tes@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: fred-mckenzie@ksc.nasa.gov (Fred McKenzie)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: STS-46 Orbital Data?
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:35:22 GMT
Followup-To: sci.space.shuttle
Distribution: world
Organization: NASA/Kennedy Space Center, Florida

Since there will be Hams on STS-47, there is an STS-47 "SAREX Fact Sheet"
containing pre-launch orbital data.  However, I haven't found any listing
of the pre-launch orbital data for STS-46, here, at archive.afit.af.mil, at
the MSFC BBS or at the JSC BBS.

Can anyone suggest a source (preferably an anonymous ftp site), where
current mission orbital data is available?  It will be more important to
keep up-to-date during the STS-46 flight, as I understand several orbital
changes are planned during the mission.

fred-mckenzie@ksc.nasa.gov
From: john@newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: Emergency Evac/Reentry Vehicle
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:49:18 GMT
Organization: Newave Communications, Ltd, Lake Wobegon, MN

In article <1992Jul23.061116.10969@omen.UUCP> caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX) writes:
> Presumably there two reasons for emergency return from the space
> station - medical emergency and The Green Slime.  As for the former,
> might a Mercury or Gemini capsule do?

No.  Consider what it would cost to build and test a clone of either
Mercury or Gemini.  You might even have to man-rate a new booster to
test the thing (unless you want to test it using a few expensive
shuttle flights).  One you get past all of this, how would you dock
the capsule to Fred?  And if someone really had a medical emergency,
how would they get inside of the capsule?  Two fully able crew had a
hard enough time with the spacewalks on Gemini, let alone a crew person
that was injured or sick.

You could start with the concept of an Apollo capsule. You could strip out
the stuff required for the long duration moon flights and add back the parts
that are missing because you don't have a service module.  Then build a
docking adapter for Fred and the Shuttle.  And a booster to lift it into
orbit.  This would work, but you are still involved in a major R&D project.

If we are going to spend money, lets spend it on something that is a step
forward rather than a step back.

> It might be cheaper to pay the Russians to keep their station
> operational and fly Freedom nearby, close enough to provide the
> desired redundancy.

You still have the problem of transferring from one station to the other.

-john-

-- 
==============================================================================
John A. Weeks III		(612) 942-6969		    john@newave.mn.org
Newave Communications, Ltd.			    ..!uunet!tcnet!newave!john
From: hollis@titan.ksc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Next four launches
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:35:17 EST
Organization: NASA, Kennedy Space Center

Greetings and Salutations:

From: navy@IASTATE.EDU (Scott V Rivera)
>Is there any activity at Andrews A.F.B during October 7-13.

For you and others that have asked about launches that are "near" here is the
next 4 launches:

      SPACE SHUTTLE MANIFEST Dated 12 June 92
              Eastern           Inc.  Alt.
STS     Date    Time   Window   deg.   km  Orbiter  Payload
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 46  31 Jul 92  0600D  4h 00m  28.45  426  Atl-12  TSS-1, EURECA-1L
 47  11 Sep 92  1025D  4h 00m  57.00  302  End-02  SL-J, GAS Bridge
 52  15 Oct 92  1100D  2h 30m  28.45  296  Col-13  LAGEOS II, USMP-1, ASP
 53   5 Nov 92  0715S  3h 15m  57.00  370  Dis-15  DOD (Department of Defense)
 
-----------------------------------------------
Ken Hollis  INTERNET: HOLLIS@TITAN.KSC.NASA.GOV
            SPAN/HEPnet: KSCP00::HOLLIS

Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
From: ghasting@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu (George Hastings)
Subject: Re: Emergency Evac/Reentry Vehicle
Organization: Virginia's Public Education Network (Richmond)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 01:38:17 GMT

henry@zoo.toronto.edu  writes:
> One idea that is being taken seriously right now is using a pair of Soyuzes.  
> There are problems -- Soyuz isn't quite big enough and it isn't certified
> for years in space -- but people are looking into it.

The Soyuz-TM is SLICK! It's REALLY tiny, but can accomodate
three people at a time. It has a little less than 4 cubic
meters of space inside, but it's quite comfortable, considering
that sitting in it, your knees are almost touching your chest!
I almost fell asleep in the left seat during the MIR approach
and docking simulation we ran on July 1st, while Harry Lewis
was in the pilot's chair in the middle!
   The WHOLE Soyuz-TM including the service module, reentry
module, and "living module" could easily be carried up in a
space shuttle cargo bay, but contacting CIS launch services
would be a lot CHEAPER!
				George Hastings
				Aerospace Ambassador
				U.S. Cosmonaut Training Session
				Zhvuzhdny Gorodok, June/July 92
n
-- 
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
From: eatlv@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (thomas.vandoren)
Subject: Re: Two pads??
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:52:12 GMT

In article <92209.044513PDC103@psuvm.psu.edu> PDC103@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>There was an argument  that two shuttles could be launched from 41A and B.
>Is it my imagination or did I hear that budget cutbacks will result in the
>mothballing of pad B?  I believe that the mothballing is in the works for the
>near future, kind of throws a monkey-wrench in the idea of (quasi) simultaneous
>launches.  So Henry, what would be the turn-around time for pad A?
>
>-- curious (Phil at PSU)

  No way!  I certainly hope not.  Both pads are used and both simultaneously
many times.  Shutting down one pad would hinder the program seriously!
Someone please say this isn't so...

Lee
From: sef@drutx.ATT.COM (Scott E. Farleigh)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Life Boat
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:11:56 GMT
Distribution: sci
Organization: AT&T, Denver, CO


Has there been any consideration on building a small "shuttle bus"
that would be able to fly between Freedom and Mir? It would not
have re-entry capability. It would only be used to get between
Freedom and Mir. Therefore, one of its abilities would be a Life
Boat for either Space Station.

Scott E. Farleigh
From: vacek@athena.cs.uga.edu (George Vacek)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: What's the date on the moon?
Keywords: Apollo11 moon
Date: 23 Jul 92 12:27:52 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <980@vk2bea.UUCP> michael@vk2bea.UUCP (Michael G. Katzmann) writes:
>The newspapers and broadcast media were celebrating yesterday, July
>20th as the 23rd aniversary of the first moon walk by Armstrong and
>Aldrin of Apollo 11.
>
>I remember the moon walk as occuring on Monday July 21st.  I was
>in Australia in 1969, and watched it on television at around 3pm
>(0200 GMT) July 21st. Since US EDT would be 4 hours behind this 
>( 10pm July 20th ), Americans remember July 20th as the aniversary.
>
>The television signals from the moon were first received on the earth
>by the CSIRO's radio telescope at Parks, west of Sydney (Australia), 
>therefore the moon would have been over Australia at the time.
>
>So what is the date on the moon?  One might guess that it is the
>same as the point on the earth that it is directly above, or one
>might conceivably use GMT (UTC) as moon time but I doubt one uses
>US EDT.  Therefore please adjust your history books to read the
>first step on the moon took place JULY 21 1969.
>
>P.S. If my memory serves me correct, during the mission the used
>     G.E.T. (Ground Elapsed Time)
>-- 
I can't answer your question about the moon's date, and I think your point
about relative aniversaries is interesting.  However-

By your own discussion, the *exact* 23rd aniversary of the 1st moon walk 
should be celebrated at 10pm July 20th US EDT.  At that point it will be 
the 21st in Australia, exactly 23 years after reception of the signal.  To be
true to history, Americans must celebrate the aniversary on the 20th and not
the 21st.  :-)

Croag

vacek@athena.cs.uga.edu
my opinions are my own. -- croag
From: petej@phred.UUCP (Peter Jarvis)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: Two pads??
Date: 29 Jul 92 22:27:28 GMT
Reply-To: petej@phred.UUCP (Peter Jarvis)
Organization: <92209.044513PDC103@psuvm.psu.edu>o

In article <92209.044513PDC103@psuvm.psu.edu> PDC103@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>Is it my imagination or did I hear that budget cutbacks will result in the
>mothballing of pad B?  I believe that the mothballing is in the works for the
>near future, kind of throws a monkey-wrench in the idea of (quasi) simultaneous
>launches.  So Henry, what would be the turn-around time for pad A?
>
I haven't heard anything about moth-balling any of the two pads. They
are trying to keep up a reasonable Shuttle schedule and to do that 
you need both pads. Turn-around time for 1 pad I believe is a few weeks.
NASA has no current plans for simultaneous launches. They can't do it
because they have only one control room. They are working on a second one.

Peter Jarvis.......


because they only have one control room. They are working on a second one.
From: hollis@titan.ksc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re : Close launches
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:57:09 GMT
Organization: NASA, Kennedy Space Center

Greetings and Salutations:

From: noyes@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (tom noyes)
>2) Stresses Cape prelaunch/launch equipment usage (only one launch control)

On just about any day, there is usually testing going on in at least 2 or 3 if
not all 4 firing rooms (one Orbiter per firing room) in the LCC (Launch Control
Complex).  About the only thing that couldn't be done would be a simultaneous
launch countdown (Range Safety, closeness of Orbiters upon launch, etc.).  The
LCC could handle launches fairly close together.  I do believe, however, that
there is a ?18? day ?21? day requirement between launches of Shuttles.

From: jeb2q@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (James E. Bryant)
>Are there plans in the works or in development for an emergency evacuation
>re-entry capable vehicle?

There was a consideration (may still be active) to use an Apollo capsule - type
vehicle for Assured Crew Return Vehicle (ACRV) (I think that is the name / 
acronym).  Simple vehicle with enough life support to just get them home.

From: caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg)
>It might be cheaper to pay the Russians to keep their station
>operational and fly Freedom nearby, close enough to provide the
>desired redundancy.

If I remember right, the Russian Mir is in a 57 degree some - odd orbit.  For
maximum payload weight, the orbiter goes into approximately a 28.45 degree
orbit.  Changing from one orbit to the other is fairly expensive fuel wise.  I
am assuming that Space Station will require the maximum out of the orbiter
weight wise, but the payloads guys can tell you better.
 
-----------------------------------------------
Ken Hollis  INTERNET: HOLLIS@TITAN.KSC.NASA.GOV
            SPAN/HEPnet: KSCP00::HOLLIS
From: slb@slced1.nswses.navy.mil (Shari L Brooks)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: What's the date on the moon?
Summary: The day WWII started
Date: 30 Jul 92 01:29:42 GMT
Organization: Naval Satellite Operations Center, Point Mugu, CA, USA

In article <2A6FC77D.15186@noiro.acs.uci.edu> dkrause@noiro.acs.uci.edu (Doug Krause) writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.113709.1@bronco.fnal.gov> colombo@bronco.fnal.gov (Rick Colombo - Fermilab) writes:
>#But then, when did WWII start, on Dec 7, 1941 or (in Japan) Dec 8, 1941?
>
>Neither of those two dates.

WWII started when Nazi Germany ignored Allied warnings and invaded Poland.
30 September, 1939.  The US was trying very hard to stay neutral for as long 
as possible.

Not every war in the history of the world was centered around the United 
States.  Most of us Americans tend to forget that however.

--
  Shari L Brooks                   |   slb%suned1.nswses.navy.mil@nosc.mil
  NAVSOC code NSOC323D             |   shari@caspar.nosc.mil
  NAWS Pt Mugu, CA 93042-5013      |   
--> All statements/opinions above are mine and mine only, not the US Navy's.
From: a_willisgt@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: Ceramic Shuttle Skin
Date: 23 Jul 92 19:35:43 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1992Jul13.150351.23942@uceng.UC.EDU>, jpapp@uceng.UC.EDU (John L Papp) writes:
> If someone could give me the name and address and possibly phone #
> of the company that makes the shuttle skin, I would greatly appreciate
> it.  Please e-mail answers.  Thanks in advance.
> jpapp@uceng.uc.edu
> -- 

  Sorry if this has already been answered.  I've been out of commission for a
while...

  The orbiter's thermal protection system is composed of four different types
of insulation: reinforced carbon-carbon, high and low-temperature reusable
surface insulation (white & black tiles), and nomex felt.

  o  Reinforced carbon-carbon [RCC] covers the nosecap an the leading edges of 
     the orbiter's wings.  It is light grey in color, and can withstand
     temperatures up to 3,000 degrees.

     Vought Corporation
     Dallas, Tx 75265

  o  High and Low-Teperature Reusable Surface Insualtion [HRSI, LRSI] are the
     familiar 'tiles' on the surface of the orbiter.  They are composed of
     99.7% sand (!) which has been compressed in to silica fibers and added to
     a ceramic binder.  The mixture is fired in a kiln and machined to form the
     blocks.

     The tiles are held in place by glass-creamic retainers (made by Corning)
     but are not in direct contact with the orbiter's aluminum skin.  Instead,
     Nomex pads are sandwiched in-between to allow for airframe flexing
     during descent (same maker as FRSI).

     HRSI tiles are black, and can withstand temperatures up to 2,300 degrees.
     LRSI tiles are white, and can withstand temperatures up to 1,200 degrees.

     Lockheed Space and Missiles Company, Inc.
     Sunnyvale, CA 94088

  o  Nomex felt [FRSI] covers the portion of the orbiter's skin which remain 
     coolest during descent.  Challenger used the FRSI more extensively than
     Colombia, replacing some of the LRSI tiles.  Nomex replaced all of the 
     LRSI tiles on Discovery and Atlantis.

     FRSI is white, and can withstand temperatures up to 700 degrees.
       
     Albany International Company
     FRL
     Dedham, Mass. 02026

 o  The shuttle's windows, windshield, and side hatch window are manufactured 
    by:

    Corning Glass Works
    Technical Products Division
    Corning, NY 14830


How's that?  8^)

Ty Willis
Stephen F. Austin State University
a_willisgt@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
From: aaronson@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (David Aaronson)
Subject: STS-50 Launch Date?
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 14:34:05 GMT


Can anyone give me the exact date that Columbia was launched
last month?

		Thanks in advance
			David
-- 
| David Aaronson                    | Nothing in the world is uglier  |
| aaronson@casbah.acns.nwu.edu      | than a midwestern city.         |
| aaronson@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu    |                                 |
| 72460.747@compuserve.com          |    ---- Frank Lloyd Wright      |
From: john@newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III)
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Subject: Re: Double flight ?
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:36:48 GMT
Organization: Newave Communications, Ltd, Lake Wobegon, MN

In article <1992Jul22.192733.22870@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> noyes@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (tom noyes 283-4177) writes:
> You see there are just enough mission controllers to work around
> the clock for a given mission (plus a few extra), and there needs to
> be a dedicated mission control room for each flight (there are two
> mission control rooms at JSC).

Speaking of which, when I was last at JSC two years ago, the upper control
room was still classified.  Now that the shuttle is no longer flying
classified missions, what is being done with the second control room?
Is it being declassified, can it be made available for regular shuttle
flights, or is it just sitting unused?

On a related subject, lets say that a shuttle was docked on Fred for
a 90 day mission.  Would there need to be a 24 hour mission control
room set up while the shuttle was just sitting?  Couldn't like three
people in a mini-control room watch the docked shuttle while the main
control room was flying a mission?

-john-

-- 
==============================================================================
John A. Weeks III		(612) 942-6969		    john@newave.mn.org
Newave Communications, Ltd.			    ..!uunet!tcnet!newave!john
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
From: jeb2q@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (James E. Bryant)
Subject: Emergency Evac/Reentry Vehicle
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:59:44 GMT

Are there plans in the works or in development for an emergency evacuation
re-entry capable vehicle?  Might it be like an escape pod, which could re-enter
the earths atmosphere or would it be like a lifeboat in that all it does is
get the occupants up and away from the space station?

James
jeb2q@galen.med.virginia.edu
From: pgf@srl01.usl.edu (Phil G. Fraering)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Star Trek - instrumentation
Date: 23 Jul 92 23:05:15 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern Louisiana

roberts@CMR.NCSL.NIST.GOV (John Roberts) writes:


>-From: games@max.u.washington.edu
>-Subject: Re: Star Trek and public perception of space/science/engineering
>-Date: 20 Jul 92 18:10:51 GMT

>-And then there are the tricorders.  These things have NO visible information
>-display.  Just how do you get a diagnosis down to the synapses when all the
>-user is looking at are flashing LEDs.

>It's that great Star Fleet Academy training they all get. Don't you wish you
>could take a 1-week survey course there now? At least I can look at an
>oscilloscope display and derive a lot of information from what to a layman
>would be a meaningless squiggle. :-)

>The new version is better than the old Star Trek, in which Mr. Spock got most
>of his information by looking into a blue light bulb!

>I recently had a day off, and watched an old rerun of "Voyage to the Bottom
>of the Sea". The displays on the submarine are really spectacular - the main
>feature is a large grid of light bulbs that shows two 2-digit numbers, slowly
>incrementing. :-) The digits are about a foot high.

Actually, I sorta liked the displays in 2010, so much that I want
one of those telescope thingies they used to look at the monoliths
eating Jupiter. Although it is implied that the data processing unit
being used to enhance the image was HAL...


BTW, has anyone noticed in all the pictures of the new visual
phones coming out, the cameras look like HAL consoles?

--
Phil Fraering pgf@srl0x.cacs.usl.edu where the x is a number from 1-5.
Phone: 318/365-5418
"There are still 201969 unread articles in 1278 groups" - nn message
"57 channels and nothing on" - Bruce Springsteen
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: rwallace@unix1.tcd.ie (russell wallace)
Subject: Re: Whales (SETI)
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 23:25:20 GMT

In <9207251435.AA15413@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov> roberts@CMR.NCSL.NIST.GOV (John Roberts) writes:


>-From: rwallace@unix1.tcd.ie (russell wallace)
>-Subject: Re: Whales (SETI)
>-Date: 23 Jul 92 21:10:39 GMT
>-Organization: Trinity College, Dublin

>-Whales are _not_ intelligent in any significant sense of the word. If
>-they were, they could prove it in about 30 seconds, by any number of
>-means (e.g. whistle the prime numbers, *-* *-*-* *-*-*-*-* etc. - for
>-that matter just whistle the numbers from 1 to 10). In fact, if they
>-were intelligent, since they were physically quite a lot tougher than
>-the whaling ships of the 18th and 19th centuries, they could have
>-developed tactics to defeat them (e.g. several whales surround a whaling
>-ship and clobber it, rather than all the whales trying to dive, and the
>-ship gets one of them).

>Again, one shouldn't expect all whales to have the same level of intelligence.
>It has been reported that there was once a group of killer whales that
>cooperated with a family of Australian whalers over the course of several
>generations. They would help to round up the big whales to be killed, then 
>eat the leftovers. Rival whalers encroaching in the territory were driven off
>by the killer whales.

A better explanation might be that the whalers trained the killer whales
to do this, in the same way that humans can train dogs to help them hunt
on land. Killer whales can certainly be trained to do the sort of things
that dogs can be trained to do.

>Whales clearly lack some of the intellectual capabilities of humans (for
>instance, humans don't appear to be prone to mass beachings). It would be
>interesting to find out what capabilities they do have, for instance in the
>area of abstract reasoning.

It certainly would. As I said, I think that so far there is no evidence
that they have any reasoning abilities at all.

















--
"To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem"
Russell Wallace, Trinity College, Dublin
rwallace@unix1.tcd.ie
From: roberts@CMR.NCSL.NIST.GOV (John Roberts)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Whales and Dolphins
Date: 28 Jul 92 02:13:31 GMT
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology
	formerly National Bureau of Standards


-From: amon@elegabalus.cs.qub.ac.uk
-Subject: RE: Whales and Dolphins
-Date: 27 Jul 92 12:16:07 GMT

-> Whales clearly lack some of the intellectual capabilities of humans  
-(for
-> instance, humans don't appear to be prone to mass beachings). It  
-would be

-But to be fair, this may be due to disease or to perceptual problems  
-with their echo-system in shallow waters. It might be a whalish  
-equivalent of being stuck in a room with built in optical illusions.

One theory I've heard for a "typical" mass beaching is that one whale
in a pod (usually a young, inexperienced one) gets confused by the
echoes in shallow water and runs aground. Its cries of distress upset
the other whales so much that they fling themselves on the shore, either
in a vain rescue attempt, or as deliberate suicide. I think it's current
practice when one whale is beached and others are seen in the area, if
the whale can't be returned to the water quickly, they shoot it before it
can call the other whales in. (This was covered in the discussion several
years ago.)

One could perhaps view this as emotion dominating over intellect, or as a
case of whales having values different from (most) humans.

John Roberts
roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov