From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Fetal Brainwaves (was: Re: fetus vs. baby)
Date: 18 Aug 92 14:38:51 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <1992Aug17.190001.739@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com> darylb@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com (Daryl Biberdorf) writes:

>In article <1992Aug17.152212.9045@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>>In <21370@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>>>This is from "Fetal Growth" p. 226 "1250 Healthcare Questions Women
>>>Ask"
>>
>>Who publishes this book, pray tell?  Why do I get the feeling that it
>>is from a somewhat biased source?
>>
>>>	"40 days      The baby's brain waves can be detected,
>>>		      recorded and even read by a doctor."

>Biased source or not, it's a correct figure.  Six to eight weeks of
>gestation is the figure I've seen quoted in every single book on
>child development that I've read.

Well, not quite correct, apparently, since even if we take 6-8 weeks
as a correct figure, that's 42-56 days, not 40 days.

>>The figure I've been given (by someone whose words I trust a hell of a
>>lot more than I will ever trust the words of someone like you) is that
>>human brain waves appear between the 4th and 5th month.  Tell you
>>what, though.  I'll ask her to take a look in her Embryology textbook
>>and make sure that her memory isn't flawed.  THEN I will call you a
>>liar (again).

>Dr. Bernard Nathanson, a gynecologist who used to run the largest
>abortion clinic in the world, says six to eight weeks.  Oddly enough,
>Dr. Nathanson now finds himself on the pro-life side of things after
>looking seriously at what he was doing.  In the introduction to his
>book _Aborting_America_, I believe he says he was personally
>responsible for performing tens of thousands of abortions.  He's
>not what you would call a religious fanatic either; he's a Jewish
>atheist.  His arguments are mostly built on logic and reason.  

>As a suggestion, Fred, I'd highly recommend your personally making
>use of a public library and the treasures within instead of relying
>on word-of-mouth information for everything.  

I find it incredibly interesting that taking what someone said as fact
for one thing has now somehow miraculously equated to "for
everything".  Frankly, the first thought that occurs to me upon seeing
this bit of arrogance is to suggest that you go to your public
library, find the biggest book you can, and, well, I'm sure you get
the idea.

>You could put your
>own doubts completely to rest if you'd simply go to a public library
>and look at some encyclopedias or child development texts.

Well, I didn't HAVE any reasonable doubts up until now.  You see,
unlike some people (apparently), I don't assume someone is lying just
because I happen to disagree with them or they say something that I'd
prefer not to believe.  I generally only start disbelieving people
when, like John Haugh II, they have demonstrated repeatedly that their
standard stock in trade consists primarily of personal insult, lies,
wholesale distortion of the facts, and biased presentation whenever it
happens to suit them.  Of course, once someone has clearly
demonstrated, as has John Haugh II, that that is indeed their usual
mode of discussion, I will give much less weight to anything they say,
particularly if it contradicts something that someone else with more
credibility has said.

I'm curious.  Since I've never seen paper refuse to take ink, why is
it that you find a book so much more reliable than someone whose
professional training involves having the knowledge?  After all, this
is the first time that Mr. Haugh bothered to give a source for his
contention, either.  So, like I said, I will ask Jeanie to check her
embryology text and make sure.  Then I'll either cite a source or say
that I was previously misinformed.

A pity some other people can't manage to do that when they're wrong,
but instead simply resort to personal attack and obfuscation through
trying to 'redefine' the English language (once again the name of Mr.
Haugh comes to mind).


-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.