From: chuckh@apex.com (Chuck Huffington)
Subject: Re: government still at large (was Re: FDA still at large)
Keywords: FDA, unconstitutional illegal action,single-issue blindness
Organization: Apex Computer Company
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:43:46 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.184456.29377@eskimo.celestial.com> kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum) writes:
>Sigh.  Your reply, which I took issue with, assumes that people who dislike
>the institution called "work" just want to sponge off of others.  Well, I
>disagree.  I think it's a pretty narrow view of what life is all about.
>I would never obtain employment out of any sense of obligation to my fellow
>human being for the very basic reason that I feel no such need to do so.
>I might obtain employment for *reasons* *of* *my* *own*, but those reasons
>would never be from the negative viewpoint that I would be a burden on
>society if I didn't.  I do agree that the world does not *owe* me a living.
>I also assert that I don't owe the world a damned thing, either, and I will
>do my damnedest to wiggle out of any synthesized, phony "obligations" that
>may get foisted on me by other's expectations of what *I* "owe" the world,
>and by extension, them.

I have no problem with what you are saying here.  Work or don't work
for whatever reasons you wish.  You don't owe the world anything.
But, the world also doesn't owe you anything either.

>From the tone of your posting, I gather that the cost of sweeping the
>panhandlers off of the street would be one that you are willing to bear,
>even if it's greater than the cost of just giving the panhandlers free
>handouts.

No I don't want to sweep them up.  But I don't want to see
aggresive begging either.

>The government is the most aggressive panhandler I know of.

No disagreement here. I support reduction of almost all governmental
spending.

>>What service/goods are they selling?  Nothing.
>
>Would you say that the work of somebody who takes a lumber company
>over, and then starts felling old growth timber at a rapid rate in
>order to pay off the debts incurred from the takeover, is being
>"productive", and does *not* constitute a burden to their fellow
>human beings?  Would you rate that human being as somehow more worthy
>than the panhandler, because they are occupied with "work"?

Hard to say.  What is old growth timber.  Does he own the land he
is cutting?  Is he paying for the timber if it's public land?

>>                                                They live on the good
>>will of working people.
>
>If you are an example, sounds like slim pickin's.

I'll remember to lower my contributions in order to meet your expectations.
I believe in and support private programs to help and supports people
in need.  I do not believe in forced contributions to lousy public
programs.

>>                         The mean-spirited merchants pay a lot
>>for store fronts.  If customers are kept away by aggressive panhandlers,
>>I would expect them to be upset.
>Perhaps so, but nobody promised them a rose garden, either.

No, but they have a right to try and grow one.  
>Have you ever offered food to a panhandler who has just asked for money
>>"for a hamburger and coffee".  I did a couple of times.  It was a learning
>>experience.  I would never do it again.  It's dangerous.
>
>Maybe the guy didn't *want* the food you offered.  You didn't say what you
>learned.  Maybe he did you a gross injustice.  It's pretty hard to tell
>if you're Mother Teresa when you get all done up in redneck drag.  Who knows?
>I can't tell from what you say, but it sounds like you have a nice
>generalization waiting for us.

What in the hell is redneck drag.  From the tone of your posting I will
assume it is an insult.

Panhandler standing outside McDonalds askes for money for a hamburger.
I say sure, come with me and I'll buy you one.  He gets pissed  and
tells me to fuck off.  I got in the way of his fundraising program and
it pissed him off.  True story and not a one time experience.

I will supply food and clothing.  Thats good will.  I will not give
money to street people.

>You sound like one of these guys that says "Get a haircut.  Get a job"
>to street people as you are on your way with your wifeAndKid to the Mariners
>game, and then freaks out when they react in a negative manner, maybe by
>giving you the finger and saying, "fuck you, asshole".

No, a lot of people tell me to get a haircut.  I don't make a habit
of telling anyone else to get a haircut or a job.

--
>Funny, I've never had any difficulties with panhandlers or getting menaced
>on the street.  Sometimes I give them money, and sometimes not.  Could be
>that said panhandlers see the chip on your shoulder, and being bored and
>with noting to lose and not giving a shit, pull your chain.  That's what
>chains are for, right?

What chip on my shoulder.  I'm a pretty easy going guy, until
someone gets in my face.

People who are living on the good will of others should not make a
habit of pulling chains.  It make the good will a lot harder to come by.
I don't owe street people anything.  I am under no obligation to give
them anything.  Aggresive/Abusive begging indicates that the begger
feels he is owed something.

>Give ya a tip: *don't* take an arcade token and hold it over a Bic lighter
>with a pair of long-nose, and then drop it into the panhandler's hand.
>It makes them soggy and hard to light, not to mention ferociously riled. :)

Have you actually done this?  I would never consider it.
And you call me mean spirited!  I would call it assault
and would prosecute it harshly.
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