From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Some Marvel & DC Multiverse ramblings (Rewrite)
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 05:29:33 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.022847.16087@nmsu.edu> bgrubb@dante.nmsu.edu (GRUBB) writes:
>A reasonable Rule of thumb to tell if the multiverse involved is Dimensional 
>or Temporal is to ask "Are any physcial and/or temporal laws different from 
>the Regular Marvel main timeline?" If the answer appears to be yes then a 
>Dimensional multiverse is probably involved. This includes different temporal 
>rates {Rate of time passing}.  Different temporal rates are NOT a result of a 
>divergent in history but the result of different PHYSICAL/TEMPORAL LAWS, 
>because if not then you have to explain WHY the change in history resulted in 
>a different temporal rate.  The best examples of the physcial and/or temporal 
>laws difference of other dimensions in Marvel are the Dark Dimension, Kang's 
>Limbo and DarkChild's Limbo.{Yes, the last two ARE different and are an 
>example of the problem with the writers.}  The Earths that most clearly fit 
>into this catagory in Marvel are New Universe Earth and Beyonder's Earth.

There is no evidence to indicate that these have different physical/temporal
laws.  Particularly the New Universe one; Quasar's abilities didn't work (he
was cut off from his power source, but his bands themselves still operated),
and conversely the Starbrand still works in the normal Marvel universe.

There were things that weren't _there_ (no mutants, no Watcher, and in the
opposite direction, no White Event in the MU), but that's not a difference in
_physical_laws_.

It is true that we were told that New Universe comics were published with a
month of comic-book time being a real-world month, which isn't so for MU
comics.  But this doesn't mean different time rates unless Quasar actually
goes there a second time and finds that a different amount of time has passed.
And I suspect that he would find no such thing.

>1) Though reconing DC tried to make Planet Oa unique in its plethera of Earths 
>{Earth-1} just as Claremont and others planned Phoenix to be unique in 
>Marvel's infinate Earths {Earth 616}. Both sets of writers quickly lost 
>control of these consepts due to other writers.  DC lost it with Planet Oa 
>with DC Challange {I wrote this off as a VERY bad dream but DC like a 
>dunderhead did not label it an imaginary tale so we are stuck with it.

This is inaccurate.  DC Challenge was labelled as basically "we don't know
whether or not you can fit it into continuity, but you're welcome to try."

It's an imaginary tale.

>2) Pre-Crisis DC had less control or understanding of its multiverse then 
>Marvel does in that it could not really deside which of its Earths were 
>alternate timelines or dimensions.  For example, DC set up Earth-Prime and 
>Earth-1 as different dimensions with different physical laws when it allowed a 
>writer from Earth-Prime to gain the power to control Earth-1's people's fates, 
>but only as long as he was on Earth-1.

The writer got the powers because he was given them by a super-villain.  Not
because he is a writer from Earth-Prime.

>3) Post Crisis DC is relativly better in keeping the dimensional and temperal 
>multiverses staight.  Post-Crisis DC still has dimensions with other Earths in 
>them {Blue Jay and Supergirl are each from one of these other Earths.}

Blue Jay was from another planet, not another Earth.  Just because a planet has
people with two arms and legs and such doesn't make it another Earth; _most_
DC planets have people that look like Earthlings.

If it had another New York, then you could call it another Earth.

"Supergirl" (Matrix) came from the pocket universe, which did have another
Earth in it, but it was strongly suggested that the pocket universe was
actually Earth-1 saved by the Time Trapper and altered for his own purposes.
If it was really Earth-1, its existence says nothing about the existence of
other Earths post-Crisis in general.

>5) Like DC, Marvel has understood that dimensions have an advantage over 
>timelines in that, because of their different physical laws, they can have 
>realities that make little sence from just a historical point of view.  DC 
>comics Earth-3 was the best example of this with an American Columbus 
>discovering Europe, Actor Abe Lincoln shooting President John Wilkes Booth, 
>and most likely a President Lee H. Oswell being shot in Dallas by a lone 
>gunman named John F. Kennedy.

This still makes no sense.  You don't need different physical laws.  You need
big changes in history, yes, but there is no physical law which says "John
Wilkes Booth was an actor".  That's a history difference.  An unlikely history
difference, but still a history difference.

>4)  NONE of the Captain Britians are duplicated; they are all different.
>    (By duplicated I mean more than one Captain Britian, Hauptmann
>    Englande, Brit-Man, etc)

That's an odd definition of duplicated.

They're duplicated, they just have different names.  If the difference was that
one is a crook and the other a hero, you'd have no problem calling them
alternate timelines, so why not if one has one name and the other has another?

There's nothing special about "name" as opposed to something else like "being
a good guy" that means they don't count as duplicates.
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)