HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
Subject: Re: REQ: 'Flower of Scotland'/'Scotland the Brave'/'Hamish Henderson'
Date: 5 Nov 92 20:57:05 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

Whether Scots words ought to be spelt with apostrophes seems a pretty weird
subject to generate six or seven messages, even by Usenet standards, but
here goes again anyway...

dmr@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Daniel Rosenblum) wrote:
> In <1992Nov2.134223.19070@gssec.bt.co.uk> cwilson@gssec.bt.co.uk
> (Colin Wilson) laments the use of apostrophes in Craig Cockburn's posting
> of the words to "Freedom Come All Ye".  I'm entirely sympathetic to Mr.
> Wilson's point.  (As someone who has a passing acquaintance with another
> language the legitimacy of which is sometimes questioned, namely Yiddish,
> I know what it's like to see people render Yiddish as if it were distorted
> German.) [...]  So anyway, does anyone know how Henderson wrote the words?

As I posted yesterday, the earliest version I can find (in "Homage to John
MacLean", which must have had Henderson's approval) doesn't have them.
They *do* appear in print in Norman Buchan's "The Scottish Folksinger",
which is almost the same as what was posted here (these two printed
versions both differ from that in the first line of the last verse: they
have "O come all ye at hame wi freedom..." instead of "Sae come all ye..."
- is "sae" a word?).  But it would be surprising if Buchan had deliberately
altered Henderson's text.

Also, in "The MacLean March" in the "Homage" volume, Henderson *does* use
the apostrophes.  The conclusion would seem to be that he doesn't think it
matters a great deal.

There's a nice anecdote about Hamish Henderson.  He was the last of the
Cecil Sharp-style folksong-collector-on-a-bicycle types; the people he
collected from were the Travellers of southern Scotland.  When taking down
material from an old gypsy in a tent in Galloway some time in the 50s, the
singer sang one of Hamish's own songs back at him, under the impression
that it was something traditional he wouldn't know (forget which, "The
Banks of Sicily" maybe?).  I guess this puts a collector in a quandary...

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
From: campanella@cvg.enet.dec.com
Subject: Re: Calling all David Wilcox Fans..
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 06:20:44 GMT


In article <Bx94FD.A75@nocusuhs.nnmc.navy.mil>, organic@mgr.hjf.org (Miriam Organic) writes...
>Any of them out there?  

Yea, plenty... I can't wait for the new album on Feb 9 as well as the songbook.
Should be great!

						Michael
Xref: sparky rec.music.folk:7568 rec.music.early:1497
From: lanih@herald.Berkeley.EDU (J. Lani Herrmann)
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk,rec.music.early
Subject: Re: Woodwind hole placement
Date: 9 Nov 1992 09:16:16 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: herald.berkeley.edu

Besides Arthur Benade's book, Horns, Strings, and Harmony (Anchor Books)
there is a nice easy to read text by Trevor Robinson, The Amateur Wind
Instrument Maker (rev ed) published by the U of Massachusetts Press in
1980. He mentions a number of other authoritative texts, including the
Galpin Society Journal. A French scientist named F. Leipp has written
a definitive text on musical acoustics (alas, not yet to my knowledge
translated), and his lab in Paris investigated the acoustics of various
instruments from the player's point of view as well as the acoustic
end of things; they published a mimeographed monographic series.  I'm
not sure if he and his lab are still around; it used to be the Labo.
d'Acoustique, Universite' de Paris VI (Faculte' des Sciences de Paris).
(oops, that's _E_ Leipp.) His assistant, a Mlle Castellengo, might
still be working there. His book, Acoustique et Musique, was published
in 1971 by Masson & Cie, Paris.
	Sorry, I should have put a paragraph break in there.

Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
From: wing@canada.ceo.dg.com (Brian Wing)
Subject: Re: "Mary Ellen Carter" a true story?
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 04:12:32 GMT
Organization: Data General (Canada) Inc.

coolidge@speaker.wpd.sgi.com (Don Coolidge) writes:
.
.
.
: 
: Third: That shipwrecked sailor got to meet Stan at the last concert he
: did in Cambridge, at Paine Hall, Harvard U. Stan was very touched by
: the meeting...(a prize to the first person who knows who opened that 
: concert for Stan...:^)
: 
: - Don Coolidge
Wasn't it Bill Morrissey?  (I hope spelling doesn't count - not sure 
about the 'r's and 's's.)
-- 
Brian Wing                         Software Support Critter
Data General (Canada) Inc.
130-13151 Vanier Pl., Richmond     dotdot: brian_wing@canada.ceo.dg.com
B.C., Canada V6V 2J2               "Hello?": +1 604 273 5100
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk,soc.culture.celtic
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: The Old Blind Dogs
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:52:56 GMT

Here's one for Craig or anyone else.

I just heard a short interview with a group called The Old Blind Dogs
(on The Thistle and Shamrock) and I was quite impressed. I beliieve they
come from Aberdeen, but does anyone know anything else about them, or
what label they record on?

												Thanks,
										
															GW
From: hauk@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Keira E. Hauk)
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
Subject: When time is stolen ???
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:58:17 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

Can anyone tell me who wrote this song and how to get a recording of it?  I    think the name of it is "When Time Is Stolen"; I've heard Joan Baez sing it...
The lyrics go something like this:
 
      The music stopped in my hand, my hand, my hand
      Sadly smiled the band, the band, the band
      
           (la, la, la, la ...)

      When time is stolen it flies, my love, my love
      Lovers leave in disguise, my love
      Weariness hangs like a curtain, heavy and old, heavy and cold.
From: indigo@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Adam Schneider)
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
Subject: Re: Indigo Girls
Date: 9 Nov 1992 22:38:44 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucscb.ucsc.edu


Patricia S. Palmiere writes:
>as for a review of the new album, it is absolutely wonderful.  I agree
>that it is better than _Nomads.._ and it contains a lot of well thought
>out songs (ghost, Nashville) as well as fun stuff (Airplane).  If you get
>any albums, let it be this one and _Indigo_.  

:^P  Thhbbbpppttt.  _Nomads_Indians_Saints_ is the best.  Then _Indigo_Girls_,
THEN _Rites_of_Passage_.  _RoP_ has too much lightweight stuff.

Of course, that's just my opinion.  Just so the world knows that us die-hard
IG fans have _widely_ differing opinions of the relative greatness of their 
various albums.

Adam

==-=--=---=----=-----=-------=---------=---------=-------=-----=----=---=--=-==
Adam Schneider               indigo@ucscb.ucsc.edu              U.C. Santa Cruz 
             "Your actions will follow you full circle 'round..."
==-=--=---=----=-----=-------=---------=---------=-------=-----=----=---=--=-==
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
From: ppalmier@MtHolyoke.edu (Patricia S. Palmiere)
Subject: Re: Mary Chapin Carpenter
Organization: Mount Holyoke College
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:37:19 GMT

Chapin will be at UMass, Amherst on 13 Nov (Friday). I don't know if this
will help you or not, but if you want the box office number--let me know,
I can get it to you.  There is the distinct possibility, however, that she
is sold out.

Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
From: martin@lyra.cis.umassd.edu (Gary Martin)
Subject: Re: Indigo Girls
Organization: University of Massachusetts Dartmouth
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:10:47 GMT

In article <jwfourie.720920237@rkw-risc> jwfourie@rkw-risc.cs.up.ac.za writes:

   Hi I'm new to this group and would like to know a few things

   what do you consider 'folk' music

We NEVER discuss this because we all are in total agreement :-)

   Does people like the Indigo Girl's, Suzanne Vega, Rory Block and Michelle
   Shock fall into this category?
   ^^^^^Shocked

Yes - we take the broadest interpretation of folk for the purpose of 
discussion - I doubt that very many of us would agree that absolutely
everything discussed here is folk music, but as long as somebody (i.e.
the poster) thinks it belongs, it's welcome. (Perhaps the exception
is carelessly crossposted articles about whether the group that made
a certain rock video is Norwegian or Sweedish.)

   Is there a definition for it or is it just all the acoustic music that 
   didn't made the charts?

My preference tends toward acoustic, but plenty of stuff discussed here
makes use of electric and electronic instruments, and some of it did
make the charts.  Somehow we seem to have a group opinion (perhaps not
quite a concensus) of what belongs here, though I doubt it can be defined
in a way that wouldn't inadvertantly omit something that arguably belongs
here.

   Secondly - Is the new Indigo Girls album any good - can somebody give me a
   review on it - is it ts good as the previous albums ?

Not me - I'm sure there are many who can, and may have already done so by
now.



--
Gary A. Martin, Assistant Professor of Mathematics, UMass Dartmouth
Martin@cis.umassd.edu
From: tom@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
Subject: Fureys Tour - dates?
Date: 6 Nov 92 10:53:13 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England


I'm posting this question again in the hope that somebody might be able to
help who didn't see it last time.

Does anybody know the UK tour dates and venues for the Fureys tour?  They
are touring now, and I can't find any info other than they're playing at
Nottingham on Nov 18th.  I've looked in Folk Roots and every other magazine
I can think of and can't find details anywhere.  (Why do they want an
unannounced tour!?!).

Anybody...??

tom.

ps a response today (Fri 6th) would really  helpful.  I can't read my
mail next week.
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
From: ugo@eng.umd.edu (Ugo Piomelli)
Subject: Re: Arthur McBride needs help
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 19:22:45 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park
Originator: ugo@maserati.eng.umd.edu



In article <1992Nov11.180647.8270@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, mwright@nyx.cs.du.edu (Matthew Wright) writes:
>Do any of you who are claiming that Arthur McBride is `Traditional Irish'
>have any evidence that it is?  I was under the impression that most
>collected versions had come from England. I'd be interested to hear of
>any factual evidence anyone might have for placing its origin (rather
>than its occurrence) in Ireland.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Matthew Wright

The only evidence I could bring is linguistic: words like "shillelagh" and "spalpeen"
are not likely to occur in English songs. Of course they could be modifications 
made after the fact.  The "wicked recruiting sergeant" song is, anyway fairly
common in both traaditions. I'll check the liner notes from the Paul Brady &
Andy Irvine album for further news.

By the way, Peter Rayner supplied a few corrections to the text:

VERSE 4:
"Oh no," says the Sergeant, "I'll hear no such chat
And I never will take it from spalpeen or brat

LAST VERSE:
And we having no money, paid them off in cracks
And we paid no respect to their two bloody backs
But we landed them there like a pair of wet sacks
And left them for dead in the morning
And so to conclude and to finish disputes
We obligingly asked if they wanted recruits
For we were the lads who would give them hard clouts 
And bid them look sharp in the morning


Regards

Ugo

*************************************************************************
Prof. Ugo Piomelli                      "Teachers are my lessons done?
Dept. of Mechanical Engineering		I cannot do another one"
University of Maryland			They  laughed and laughed and said
College Park, MD 20742			"Are your lessons done?"
E-mail: ugo@eng.umd.edu				L. Cohen
*************************************************************************
From: darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie)
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
Subject: Re: Ultimate top 10 of folkalbums
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:58:12 GMT
Organization: University of California, Davis

In article <s0319198.11.0@let.rug.nl>, s0319198@let.rug.nl (E.B. Meijerink) writes:
> 
> A friend of mine recently asked me what would be the best ten albums to buy 
> for a 'novice' in folkmusic. Being a relative newcomer myself I couldn't 
> give him an adequate answer. I know that everybody has his/her own taste in 
> music and that it's therefore hard to make an objective top 10. Bearing this 
> in mind: Could somebody help me?

My list:

BOTHY BAND: "1975"
PENTANGLE: either "Cruel Sister" or "Basket of Light"
DICK GAUGHAN: "Handful of Earth"
AD VIELLE QUE POURRA: their first, self-titled. Amazing French folk music!
WENDY GROSSMAN: "Roseville Fair" (probably *very* hard to find)
GORDON BOK, ED TRICKETT, & ANNE MAYO MUIR: "The Ways of Man"
    (anything by these three is wonderful; I just like this one best)
SILLY WIZARD: "Wild and Beautiful"
HIGH LEVEL RANTERS: "Ranting Lads" (Northumberland's now-defunct
     great band; this is probably very hard to find)
DOC WATSON: "On Stage" (early stuff with just him & his son Merle)
JOHN McCUTCHEON: "Barefoot Boy with Boots On"

Richard Darsie
darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu
From: eddie@cstr.ed.ac.uk (Eddie Rooney)
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
Subject: Folk CDs in North America
Date: 11 Nov 92 10:36:32 GMT
Organization: Centre for Speech Technology Research, Edinburgh University

What sort of price do people pay for folk CDs (e.g. Runrig, Tannahill Weavers,
Sileas etc.) in North America?  Are there any reasonably cheap sources of
supply, or are they sold at the equivalent of the British price (L12.00 plus)?

=========================================================================

Edmund Rooney					email:eddie@cstr.ed.ac.uk

Centre for Speech Technology Research
University of Edinburgh
80, South Bridge,
Edinburgh EH1 1HN
Scotland

=========================================================================
From: krj@netsun.cl.msu.edu (Ken Josenhans)
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
Subject: Re: Steeleye Span re-issues
Date: 7 Nov 92 00:31:23 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University

In article <1992Nov4.235854.23765@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> 
      mlc9g@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Matthew Lewis Condon) writes:
>	Does anyone have ties close enough to Shanachie to find out if and
> when they plan on re-releasing the rest of the Steeleye Span back catalog 
> on CD?     I'm particularly waiting for "Storm Force Ten" and 
> "Rocket Cottage", but they never reply when I write to them.  If anyone 
> knows anything, or knows if these  are perhaps available as imports, 
> please let me know.

Shanachie has issued all the Steeleye Span albums which were ever issued
in the US *except* for:

     COMMONERS CROWN
     ROCKET COTTAGE
     STORM FORCE TEN
     LIVE AT LAST
     SAILS OF SILVER

As best I remember, Shanachie never reissued these albums on vinyl either.
This suggests that the company thinks they won't sell (doubtful, I think)
or they may not have the rights to them.

COMMONERS CROWN exists on CD in Australia.  I have not yet been able to 
run down a copy.  Even talking with the import wholesaler at our local 
Tower, and checking it off on her lists, didn't help.  The other four 
albums, as far as I am aware, have not been issued on CD anywhere.

In a related matter:  Someone was asking about the revised edition of 
BACK IN LINE with three bonus live tracks.  This was issued on Park Records
in the UK.  The copies in the US are from the firm Progressive Records, who
I've never heard of before.  Copies are plentiful at the Ann Arbor Tower.
Progressive has also issued Maddy Prior's latest pop album with Rick Kemp,
HAPPY FAMILIES.  I keep hoping Progressive will do the third album with the 
Carnival Band, CAROLS & CAPERS, which is on the Park label in the UK, but
no sign of it yet.  And it's almost Christmas again, too.  Moomph.

-- 
--Ken Josenhans
    Internet: 13020KRJ@msu.edu      Bitnet: 13020KRJ@msu
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
From: ppalmier@MtHolyoke.edu (Patricia S. Palmiere)
Subject: Saxophone for Guitar Swap?
Organization: Mount Holyoke College
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:48:24 GMT


Hello!  I know that an alto saxophone is not a very folkish instrument,
but I am wondering if anyone out there is willing (or knows of someone who
is willing) to take part in a swap.  I have a hardly used alto sax that I
would like to swap for a 6 string acoustic guitar (a very folk instrument).
It can be left or right handed (left preferred).

I welcome any and all repsonses-- and any help you can give to assist me
in solving my problem!!

Trish Palmiere 

Newsgroups: rec.music.folk,rec.music.early
From: al@nmt.edu (Al Stavely)
Subject: Re: Woodwind hole placement
Organization: New Mexico Tech, USA
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 19:43:51 GMT

In article <1992Nov3.221255.24581@pony.Ingres.COM> boba@Ingres.COM (Bob Andrews) writes:
>In article <1992Nov2.162029.18771@nmt.edu> al@nmt.edu (Al Stavely) writes:
>>My advice would be (1) copy an existing instrument that you like and then (2)
>>make minor adjustments by trial and error.  One thing to notice on flute-type
>>instruments is that the head joint has to narrow somewhat with respect to
>>the body if you want a good full tone.  Measure the bore of your prototype
>>carefully!
>
>Your Boehm roots are showing.  :-)  It need not be the head that tapers
>("invented" by Boehm ca 1850), but may be a tapering body and foot with
>a cylindrical head (as baroque & classical flute, roughly 1650-1850).
>The taper functions primarily to get the octaves in tune.  A "full
>tone" is more a function of the diameter to length ratio.  Of course,
>an extreme body taper can adversely affect a full tone (which is one of
>the reasons Boehm's tapered head & cylindrical body caught on).  Note
>that most piccolos still have "conical" bodies thought with Boehm
>fingerings so that one can stand to be in the same room where one is
>being played.  :-)

Well, I didn't want to go into a lot of detail, but I meant my comment to
apply to conical-bore flutes too.  It works to have the head joint less
tapered than the body, or cylindrical, or even tapered in the opposite
direction!  But yes, a cylindrical head-joint does seem to be the standard for
conical-bore flutes.

The narrowing of the head joint does help improve the tone color, for the same
reason that it gets the octaves in tune: you want the second and higher peaks
in the frequency spectrum to be at exact multiples of the fundamental
frequency.  But you're right, getting the octaves in tune is another important
reason for getting the tapers in the right proportion.


-- 

	- Allan Stavely, New Mexico Tech, USA
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
From: wjones@halcyon.com (Warren Jones)
Subject: Re: Pirate Music Anyone?
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. (206) 455-3505
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:47:46 GMT

cjs@phy.duke.edu (Carl Schnurr) writes:

>I'm interested in finding some cd's containing "pirate" music.  You
>know, "Yo-ho, my lads" and all that--mostly for atmosphere for a party

How about "Pirate Jenny", with lyrics by Bertol Brecht and music by
(I think) Kurt Weill.  The easiest recording to find will probably be
Judy Collins' version on "In My Life".  There's also a version by Dave
Van Ronk and Frankie Armstrong on an album called "Let No One Deceive
You", which is devoted to songs by Brecht.  A very interesting album,
and a great song!

Hope you have a great party!
-- 
Warren Jones
<wjones@halcyon.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
From: gawne@stsci.edu
Subject: Re: Lyrics: The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:19:57 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.042110.9707@osf.org>, 
rogers@rosencrantz.osf.org (Andrew Rogers) writes:
> Thanks for typing all of that in.  I'd like to point out that the basic chord
> progression is C Gm Bb F C.  I don't have a copy of the record, but I recall
> that it sounded like he was playing in A, capoed at the third fret.
> 
> AWR

Well, it's the first guitar song I ever learned.  From Gordon Lightfoot's
songbook I got chords of A(natural) Em G D An.  The A natural is just two
fingers on the two middle strings at the second fret.  The songbook doesn't
show any capo for this song, and when I play it this way it sounds very
similar to the recorded version.

It's a very simple progression, easy to learn when you're consciously
teaching your fingers to move from one chord to another.

Played the song just last night for some friends and family, and took
advantage of all the good info posted here recently to add to the
impact of the tale.  Thanks to all of you.

-Bill Gawne
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
From: martin@lyra.cis.umassd.edu (Gary Martin)
Subject: Re: So Will it Yet
Organization: University of Massachusetts Dartmouth
	<92310.081947TMH1@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:38:03 GMT

In article <92310.081947TMH1@psuvm.psu.edu> TMH1@psuvm.psu.edu (Tina Hay) writes:

   Actually, I don't think Gordon Bok wrote it.  I think it's a traditional
   song. 
Right.  I looked at Anne Dodson's liner notes to get the author credit,
saw "trad." and read it as "Bok".  An understandable slip. 

   And Anne Dodson's version strikes me as a bit different from
   Bok/Muir/Trickett's -- slower and quieter.  But both versions are very nice!

Dodson says, "trad. Maine musician, Maddy Hannah brought this one back from
Ireland, passed it on to John and Ellen Gawler, who passed it on to me.
It's the only "supportive" drinking song I've ever heard and comes from
a time when "crack" had a simpler connotation than it does these days.
Gordon Bok has written alternative verses which can be heard on "So Will
We Yet", with Gordon, Ann Mayo Muir and Ed Trickett, on Folk-Legacy FSI-116.

   And, for what it's worth, the CD on which each version appears is very good
   too.  B/M/T's "And So Will We Yet" CD is my favorite of theirs, and Anne
   Dodson's "In Its Own Sweet Time" is one of those little-known, small-label,
   wonderful CDs.  If anyone wants the address of her label, I can look it up
   at home.  I highly recommend that CD, and you'd probably have to order it
   directly from her.

Beech Hill Music, PO Box 14, Camden, ME  04843.
Highly recommended.

--
Gary A. Martin, Assistant Professor of Mathematics, UMass Dartmouth
Martin@cis.umassd.edu
From: hauk@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Keira E. Hauk)
Newsgroups: rec.music.folk
Subject: ENYA - "The Lady of Shalott"
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:08:58 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

A few months ago I heard a set of unreleased Enya songs, on the radio.
Among many beautiful melodoes and Irish folk songs she sang her own version of  Tennyson's poem, "The Lady of Shalott."  

Did anyone else out there hear it also; if so, what did you think and how might one get a copy of it?  It was so beautiful...but it was also very different    from her more popular albums.  She used her voice so muchmore than her latest  stuff.. 

    "There she weaves by night and day
      a magic web with colors gay
     She hath heard a whisper say
      a curse is on her if she stay
     To look down to Camelot
      She knows not what the curse may be
     And so she weaveth steadily
      And little other care hath she
     The Lady of Shalott..."