From: kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran)
Subject: Re: control
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Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 04:49:14 GMT

In article <nyikos.715899847@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>In <1992Sep5.102619.11915@rigel.econ.uga.edu> mills@uga.edu (Kathi Mills) writes:
>>>Nyikos
>>>> Ferrari
>
>>>  I am against banning contraception,
>>>morning-after pills, IUD's (except those things in all three categories
>>>that are significantly more dangerous than what else is available, like
>>>DES and the Dalkon Shield), and even abortion prior to the end of the
>>>5th week.  
>
>>CONTRACEPTIONN IS BESIDE THE POINT!! Abortion "prior to the end of the 5th
>>week" is basically beside the point also, since paltry few women know
>>that they are pregnant by that time,
>
>If so, sex education has done a lousy job of teaching about menstrual
>cycles and pregnancy tests, and about the desirability of EARLY abortions.
>

Peter, my mother is routinely up to 2 weeks late starting her period.  My
sister has been up to 4 weeks "out of synch".  A friend of mine has been
up to *6* (Six, you know, between 5 and 7) weeks late starting her period.
(She takes birth control pills to get herself more "even").  Granted, Jackie
is an exceptional case, but most women _do not_ have rhythm-steady cycles.
Are you suggesting that these three women keep an EPT handy so they can test
themselves they day after they "should have" started?

>> much LESS have time to make up their
>>minds about it (abortion is NOT a snap decision),
>
>I would expect a lot of women have made their minds up, even before
>having intercourse, that if they get pregnant, they'll abort.

And you're living in a fantasy world.  Certainly some women have.  I've talked
with them.  But most women (I think) have a general "If I Got Pregnant Today,
I'd..." attitude, and then when it actually happens, they want to be able to
take stock of their CURRENT situations.

>
>> AND get to the abortion
>>clinic, when antis keep passing abortion restrictions and generally making
>>it extremely difficult to get to a clinic. 
>
>This is a bogus argument.  What's a 24 hour waiting period compared to 
>5 weeks?

For some women, life and death.  Tell me, Peter.  Is there ANY part of a
woman's pregnancy that you don't want to legislate away?

>
>> This 5-week abortion grace
>>period you so generously bestow upon us is nothinng but a mirage.  What
>>makes a 5-week fetus different from a 6-week onne anyway?
>
>Well, I can't know when sentience occurs, but there seems to be a 
>prima facie case for it beginning some time between the end of the
^^^^^^^^^^^Based on a book written in 1961...
>5th week and the end of the 8th.  Like I said, I am open to moving
>up the cutoff point to the 8-week point.

How about to 24 weeks, when mylination occurs, and the brain can actually
FUNCTION???
>
>>>> Contraceptionn is NOT ann
>>>>alternnative to abortion.
>
>>>It's too bad so many people literally believe this, like the teenagers
>>>on a recent Oprah Winfrey show who (so I'm told, correct me if I'm 
>>>wrong) were asked why they did not use (more?) birth control, and replied
>>>that it was because they knew they could always get an abortion.
>
>>Let me try this one more time, inn nice, short, sentences: Conntraception
>>is NNOT an alternative to abortionn.  (Pause while you look up that big
>>word "contraception.")  Contraception prevennts abortionn.
>
>>Got it?
>
>Sorry, repeating a statement is not the same thing as explaining it.
>Contraception does not prevent abortion, otherwise people would not
>be talking about "contraceptive failure."  So what did you mean?

Yes, folks, we have a winner in the "Tommy Kelly Look Alike Sweepstakes".

Let's try it from the other end, in bigger words.

If a pregnancy is avoided by the use of contraceptives, then no abortion will
be needed.  If a pregnancy is NOT avoided (ie. BC failure), then abortion can
(and oftentimes is) used as prevent the pregnancy from proceeding.
>
>>Let's summarize in case you don't.
>
>>Contraception prevents pregnancy.  Contraception does not STOP a pregnancy.
>
>I know that.  What's your point?

AAAAAUUUGGGHHHHH!!!!! (boish.  boish.  boish).

Peter, stop playing dumb.
--
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Newsgroups: talk.abortion