From: acolman@nyx.cs.du.edu (Alison Colman)
Subject: Re: Estimates of the incidence of illegal abortions
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 <C1Frr7.9zA@ra.nrl.navy.mil>
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 04:51:32 GMT

In article <C1Frr7.9zA@ra.nrl.navy.mil> lebow@psl.nrl.navy.mil writes:
>In article <1993Jan23.010405.8289@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> acolman@nyx.cs.du
edu
>(Alison Colman) writes:
>>In article <C186G7.1Kr@news.cso.uiuc.edu> vengeanc@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () 
r
>>tes:
>>>
>>>Has anyone considered the following hypothesis:
>>>
>>>Could it be possible that the availability of abortion may influence
>>>partners to be less careful with contraception?  Could it not then
>>>ALSO be possible that were abortion proscribed, these same partners wo
l
>>
>>>begin being MORE careful than they were previously?  Could this not
>>>then reduce the 1.5 million unwanted pregnancies per year that WOULD
>>>have resulted in an abortion?
>>>
>>>With respect to at least my first question, Sandra Day O'Connor seems
>>>to think so.
>>>
>>>
>>>Have a nice day,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Edward Simmonds- standard disclaimers  
>>>
>>
>>
>>As to whether the availibility of abortion will influence the sexual
>>behavior of people in this country, it's pretty hard to predict. I know
>>for myself, if abortion was made illegal in Pennsylvania, it wouldn't b

>>much of a problem for me to go to Maryland to have an abortion. Yes, it
>>might make me wary about having sex -- then again, it might not make mu
h
>>of a difference. I know myself I would be extremely careful about using
>>effective birth control, regardless of the availability of abortion. So

>>sorry to disappoint you, Edward. Making abortion illegal would not make
me
>>have sex less, personally.
>
>
>Alison
>
>These things actually can be determined by proper survey techniques. 
>Interviews on Oprah with pregnant teenagers were very revealing. Abortio
 is so
>widely accepted in our society that many of the kids came up with lines 
uch as
>'... and besides, I could always get an abortion....' to explain away th
ir
>cavalier attitudes towards the consequences of sex.  Please don't misund
rstand
>me - a TV talk show doesn't prove a point - but neither do your particul
r
>personal reactions.
>
My personal reactions may mean nothing to you, Paul, but they mean
something to me.  I can't speak for others because I'm not a mind reader,
but I can certainly tell a pro-lifer how I would feel if abortion was made
unavailable to me, and how it would affect my life. *You* may not care if
my personal goals are never achieved, but I sure care. I feel that my
concerns are very legitimate, and you're a fool if you think you can
 convince me otherwise.

As for those teenager's attitudes, so what? Would you rather have
teenagers quaking in their boots at the merest thought of sex? Yes, that
availability of abortion probably makes kids more comfortable about
experimenting with sex. I don't see it as such a terrible thing, since I
feel that it is perfectly normal for a teenaged person to want to try out
their sexuality. That's why good comphrehensive sex ed programs are so
important, and effective birth control should be cheap and readily
available.

I'm apparently much older than you are. Before RvW,
>abortions were not readily available.  Teenage sex was extremely rare by
>today's standards.  To my knowledge in my school of 3,000 kids there wer
e no
>pregnancies. In any case, thery were very rare. I knew some sexually

How do you know? I would find it hard to believe that in the 50's and
60's, teenaged kids weren't interested in sex. They were probably much
more secretive about it. And I would also venture to say that many people
closed their eyes to teenage sex. Have you ever seen the movie "heavy
Petting"? It's a movie, made around 1990 or so, in which about two dozen
famous personalities are interviewed, and they talk about their earliest
sexual experiences. Most of the people interviewed were teenagers in the
40's, 50's, and 60's, and it sure didn't sound likekids weren't having sex
or getting pregnant. Things like that, I'll bet, were hushed up big time.

>promiscuous guys and they ALWAYS carried a condom in their wallets and u
sed
>them.  Believe it or not, the fear of getting a girl pregnant was very r
eal to
>these guys.

What makes you think that the fear of getting a girl pregnant isn't real
to guys in my generation? Believe me, Paul, that fear is very real -- at
least to guys I know personally.

>
>Again, this anecdote doesn't prove anything by itself, but what do you s
upposeN
>was behind the increased teenage abstinance back then? 

Like I mentioned before, I'm not so sure teenagers were actually having
much less sex back then -- they were probably less open about it because
of more repressive attitudes back then. And what is so great about
scaring people out of having sex by making abortion illegal?

>>
>
>>Going by what you said, can I reasonably assume that you are greatly in
>>favor of all forms of contraceptives being easily obtainable, and
>>inexpensive? As it stands now, some of the most effective forms of birt

>>control, such as Norplant, are not available to me. I am not poor enoug

>>to get Norplant through any public assistance program, but at the same
>>time, I am not really able to drop $800-$900 dollars for an exam and a
>>Norplant implantation. And due to the nature of my employment, I don't
>>have health insurance right now. I would really like some of this to
>>change. I would like Norplant, the Pill, and Depo-Provera to be cheaper

>>and I would like to be able to get health insurance at a reasonable cos
t.N
>>Is this something you would like too, Edward?
>
>Many types of contraceptives kill the recently conceived human.  To many

That is your opinion. That is not a fact, and that is also not something I
believe.

>pro-lifers this is no different than an abortion.  Please take this into
>account before jumping to the conclusion that all pro-lifers are against
all
>birth control.

I don't care if someone is opposed to birth control. If you don't want to
use it, don't. But don't stop me from using it. I have the right to take
care of myself, and I refuse to allow someone like you to take away that
right.

>
>
>>
>>In the meanwhile, though, what would you say to someone like me? Would 
you
>>have the gall to tell me that I shouldn't be having any sex because I
>>can't afford the best birth control out there? And I would rather not h
ear
>>you say to me, "there are lots of other things to do besides intercours
se",
>>as if I wasn't aware of that fact. If I want to have intercourse, it is
>>not within anyone's right to tell me I shouldn't. Not to mention that I
>>think that would be a really snotty motive for making abortion illegal 
-
>>to try to curb the sexual habits of others.
>
>
>I can't speak for Edward but I would say to you (as I would my daughter)

>"Please please don't have sex until you are financially and mentally abl
 to
>bear a child.  If you must have sex, find ways that don't involve introm
ssion.
> Insist that your partner use a condom and you a spermicide and barrier
>contraceptive.  Ask your mother or school nurse or read a book on how to
use
>them.  Know that I will not allow you to have an abortion unless your li
e is
>threatened. "   Aside from the anti-abortion statement, is what I've sai
 so
>unreasonable?
>
My parents were not hip on the idea of their three teenaged daughters
having sex, either. My mom basically said to me that I should wait until
marriage to have sex. My father was more pragmatic, and his attitude was
that he would rather his daughters not become sexually active until
marriage either, but he was aware that kids experiment. No, what you have
just said is pretty typical of what a normal parent would say, I think.
It's not too far off from what my parents said, aside from that fact that
both my folks are strongly pro-choice.


>>Alison (no .sig yet! :-))
>>
>
>- Paul
>
>
Alison Colman




Newsgroups: talk.abortion