HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: salem@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Bruce Salem)
Subject: Competition in Silicon Valley
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 18:00:01 GMT

Sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees, even when you
suspect something is going on that is new.

I am a UNIX System Admin. with three years experience running
and configuring networks. I have been out of work for a little
more than six months, with the exception of a part-time and temp
position I heald for a month and a half starting just after the
first of the year. I am currently out of work.

I have also been a C-programmer on UNIX systems for about three
years, and before that a scientific programmer with database
experience.

A few weeks ago the San Jose Mercury said that the "Peace Dividand"
netted a loss of about 40,000 jobs in Silicon Valley. What I have
suspected is that for the first time there is real, "normal"
competition for jobs here. In my case, that means that I am consistantly
being out competed, based on years experience, by people who
heald jobs with defense contractors who are in the market after
a long period of either not changing jobs or of getting snapped up
quickly without an extensive wait.

A special circumstance is that my inability to drive may eliminate
many opportunities.

I also find that recruiters are generally ineffective in finding
good matches within a small geographical area that includes San
Mateo and the north end of Santa Clara Cos.

I have interviewed with several major companies in that area.

Is my assessment of the situation correct? What suggestions can
you make for my job search? I will do part-time and temp work
so long as I can work toward an Full Time Equivilant with benefits
in one position. I have a family and need medical benefits.

Bruce Salem


Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: randy@rss.dl.nec.com (Randy)
Subject: Salary Verification?
Keywords: salary verification
Organization: NEC America
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 19:18:34 GMT

This talk of moral dilemnas (take the drug test/don't take the drug
test) got me thinking about another situation I've been placed in.
A potential employer that an individual has interviewed with would
like to make an offer to the candidate.  Before they make an offer
they tell the candidate that he must provide salary verification of
his past two jobs to support the salary figures he quoted in the
interview process.  The verification must be in the form of a pay
check stub from both jobs.

Does the potential employer have any real right to this information?
Obviously the potential employer has the upper hand if the guy really
wants the job.  If the employer really wants the guy and he has stated
his salary requirements, should the potential employer not simply 
decide whether the individual is worth the requested salary and make
an offer that is appropriate?  I mean is a candidate not worth a
certain salary figure to the potential employer regardless of what
he has made in the past.  If the guy was severely underpaid in past
jobs, is it fair that that be reflected in a new offer?  Is the
candidate in the right if he refuses to provide the information or
does he just look like he has lied about his previous salary history?

I welcome your replies, either posted or mailed.

-- 
- Randy Bullard  -    Dallas, TX randy@rss.dl.nec.com
					  Home (214)750-4934
					  Work (214)907-4463

| Have you ever rubbed your thigh with number 10 sandpaper and     |
| poured Red Devil turpentine on it?  I hate it when that happens. |
From: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: ?Employment placement agencies for computer professionals
Date: 17 Apr 92 03:05:28 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA

In article <1992Apr14.075050.15038@Aus.Sun.COM> timh@hardwired.Aus.Sun.COM writes:
>
>Has has asked me to post to this newsgroup asking if anyone has a list
>of major employment placement agencies, that specialise in Computer Professionals
>in the US.
>
   There are the big ones like Source EDP, but most of the real good
   ones are smaller local specialty firms that really do care about
   their reputation... These usually handle only a select group of
   companies and areas...and work with them year after year.  They
   \\

   (flippin vi!0

   What area of the country is your friend interested in?  

   What is the area of their "computer professional" interest and
   experience?
From: sy18337@fmrco.COM (Terry Traub)
Subject: Re: recession-what recession????
Followup-To: misc.jobs.misc
Summary: Experience and education
Keywords: developers,jobs
Organization: Fidelity Management and Research Co., Boston, MA
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 19:16:16 GMT

I've been following this discussion with great interest.  I have not
had the experience of graduating from college with a marketable skill
and trying to immediately land a professional job in my field.  I was
a Chinese major, and when I finished my MA I managed to bootstrap my
way into the field of computer programming through the sheer sweat of
my brow.

I worked at a bookstore (later at a software store and a typesetting
shop) and took computer science courses at night.  I spent about 40
hours a week of my non-working time hacking on my home computer (a
Commodore 64, later an IBM PC).  My first computer job was a little
BASIC program for some adult education thing to help them arrange
seating at a banquet.  Later I worked for a few weeks writing pascal
code for a small company, and then landed a job doing database and C
programming for a consulting group, the ad for which I found in a
computer user group magazine.  Now I'm at a fairly large financial
company; I have the good fortune to be working with some very
knowledgeable people.  Eventually I'll complete an MS in computer
science.

It seems to me there's an inordinate amount of complaining going on
about "promises" and the like.  It's as though some people feel that
they deserve nice, prestigious jobs immediately upon graduation.
Perhaps people in engineering programs do; I don't know.  But I do
know that in the real world you have to start small and work your way
up.  Maybe I did it the hard way and missed something, but my gut
feeling tells me that the hard way is the only way.  

As for the fellow in this conference who bitterly complained that he
was going to have to flip burgers, I say: it may be just what you
needed.  It will build character, and as a result you'll appreciate a
good job offer ever so much more (and probably go farther in your
field as a result).  I've flipped burgers, too; it was a means to an
end, that's all.  Good luck!

Terry

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Terry Traub                                Usenet:  uunet!fmrco!lanyard!ttraub
Fidelity Investments                       Bix:     ttraub
Boston, Massachusetts
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,misc.legal
From: pratt@binnacle.rutgers.edu (Lorien Y. Pratt)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: How to handle 2-body problem?
Date: 17 Apr 92 15:35:03 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

Perhaps there's an FAQ for this group on this question.  Any advice on
how to handle a 2-body problem?  I have a job offer where my husband doesn't.
He has a good job where I don't.  Do most people end up just moving to where
there's one job, and then looking around for another one after that point?
Or is it reasonable to rely on someone who's given you an offer to help to
find a job for your spouse?  We can't decide what to do, as having either of
us unemployed is going to be troublesome!  Any wisdom, help, consolation,
would be appreciated.

  --Lori
-- 
L. Y. Pratt                      ,_~o      Computer Science Department
pratt@cs.rutgers.edu           _-\_<,      Rutgers University
(908) 846-4766 (home)         (*)/'(*)     Hill Center  
(908) 932-4974 (CoRE building office)      New Brunswick, NJ  08903, USA
From: C09615DI@WUVMD.WUSTL.EDU (David Irwin)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Huntsville, Alabama
Date: 14 Apr 92 21:04:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: wuvmd.92105.150442C09615DI
Organization: WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY
To:           NETNEWS@WUVMD

I am currently beginning a job search in Huntsville, because I have a friend
who will be working there this summer, and I like the town.  According to him,
when he was there last summer (he's a co-op) it seemed that the recession had
somewhat missed North Alabama.  Is this true to any extent?  I have already
sent out letters to several companies, but I wondered if anyone could name
some companies that are doing particularly well and/or are good places for
CS/EE types to work.

It would be nice to hear from someone in the area via e-mail or a followup
post.

David Irwin
Washington University
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: nicholl@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Sheldon Nicholl)
Subject: CDC?
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 22:01:23 GMT


I was wondering how one would go about applying for a job with the
Centers for Disease Control. E-mail only, please. Thanks.


                      --Sheldon Nicholl
                        nicholl@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,misc.jobs.contract
From: hgp@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (howard.page)
Subject: Re: YA possible insurance policy for contractors
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:34:31 GMT
Followup-To: misc.jobs.misc

In article <1410@ocsmd.com>, van@zeus.ocs.com (Van Gale) writes:
> I've uncovered an interesting sounding policy for small companies which
> I haven't seen discussed here before.  My apologies if it has.  By small
> I mean my company, for example, with 2 full time employees.
> 
> The policy is underwritten by United Chambers and is designed for very
> small companies which are members of their local Chamber of Commerce.
> Apparently they lump all these companies as a single "group".
> 
> 	.
> 	.
> 	.
> 
> 
> Disadvantage--  Premiums see arbitrary rate increases every year.  They
>                 start low as a sales gimmick.  However, agent swears a
>                 new policy can be written every year from scratch.
> 
> 
> Has anyone had experience with this policy or United Chambers?
> 
> A small voice in my head is telling me it sounds too good to be true but
> the agent is reputable and well established in my small community.
> 

I believe this to be total, utter bulls*it. Here's why: If you DON'T
get sick, they'll give you a new policy every year. If you do get sick,
they'll say, "can`t write you a new policy - preexisting conditions"
and your premiums wil skyrocket!


Howard G. Page
From: moroni@cbnewse.cb.att.com (alfredo.c.issa)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: The best companies to work for in CS
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:15:43 GMT
Organization: AT&T


> Date: 9 Apr 92 17:21:19 GMT
> Lines: 13
> 
> In <92099.162554PDLBH@CUNYVM.BITNET> by some person whom I won't name so
> 				he won't think this is some personal attack.
> Organization: AT&T
>>
>>>From article <92099.162554PDLBH@CUNYVM.BITNET>, by <PDLBH@CUNYVM.BITNET>:
>>> What would be the best companies to work for in CS beside the traditional
>>> IBM, Microsoft, DEC ...? I'm interested in the 
>>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>  What makes you think these companies are 
>>  good to work for? :-)
>>
>>Al Issa
> 
> Yeah, why not just shoot yourself in the head, or go to work for ATT 
> or something :) 
> 
> (My entire department at NCR was laid off when ATT bought us out; they
> made no bona-fide effort to even *try* to keep their best/most experienced
> people (I can say this, cause I wasn't one of those, being a new grad myself))
> 
> But I'm not bitter; I just switched to MCI :)
> 
> -(-- John

I know what you mean, I'm not sure how long I'll
hold my present job myself before I get the axe.

(I still use AT&T because I get a discount!;-)  )

regards,

Al Issa
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: e-sink@uiuc.edu (Eric W. Sink)
Subject: What's the going salary for X or Motif programmers ?
Originator: sink@sunb2.cs.uiuc.edu
Reply-To: e-sink@uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 15:11:53 GMT

I realize that this a rather broad question, as the answer depends
on a number of other variables.  I'm interested anyway.

Please give me your opinion or experience on what a typical salary
range is for Motif or X programmers.  The information is to satisfy
my own curiosity.

If you send me a specific salary figure, please give me a geographic
location as well.

I'm not particularly asking anyone to tell me what they make personally.
However, be aware that if you do so, I won't be telling anyone your name.
If you're giving me that kind of information, make sure I know that it
is personal info and not just your opinion.

If people want, I'll summarize any results I get.  Please let me know
if you do NOT want your response included in any summary.  Names will
be withheld in any case.

Please email response to me at the address below.

Thanks in advance,

-- 
Eric W. Sink, USACERL         | The essence of GUI programming : "What
Box 9005, Champaign, IL       | started out as a half hour hack has been
61826-9005 1-800-USA-CERLx449 | bothering me for two weeks now." -- Matt Mora
---- e-sink@uiuc.edu ---------|
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: tyg@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Tom Galloway)
Subject: Re: Hewlett Packard response time???
Reply-To: tyg@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Tom Galloway)
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 18:37:54 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.085753.27020@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> sukumar@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Suresh Kumar) writes:
>     I am in kind of delicate situation as I might have a job offer
> from a small company in Chicago suburbs. Though, I like the job, but
> still interested with Hewlett Packard. 

It strikes me as perfectly reasonable to contact the people you spoke with at
HP and tell them that you've received an offer from another company, and will
need to give that company a response by such and such a date. Particularly
since it's been over a month since your interview, HP shouldn't have too much
of a problem deciding whether or not to make you an offer within that time
frame.

In my own recent job search, it happened that I received a formal job offer
before doing interviews with two companies, but which had already been
scheduled. During the interviews I mentioned the offer and the time
constraints it had on it. Both companies were glad to be informed of the
outstanding offer, and had no problem getting back to me fairly quickly with
their decisions. A good company knows that you're not applying only to them
(except in exceptional circumstances), and keeping them informed after an
interview and before you learn of a decision of anything which potentially
changes your availablility or which puts a time constraint on their potential
offer is quite reasonable.

tyg   tyg@hq.ileaf.com
From: alanh@cup.portal.com (Alan E Hattman)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Test
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 14:56:11 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: ca

This is a test
From: paul@urbana.mcd.mot.com (Paul Jones)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: home publishing work
Summary: Looking for pointers to home editing/publishing
Keywords: editing publishing home
Date: 7 Apr 92 10:35:31 GMT
Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Urbana Design Center

Enquiring for a friend:

Does anyone have pointers to information on getting started with a job
where you would do freelance or contract editing or writing for book/magazine
publishers from home and upload your work over a modem?

Any trade rags on such subjects?

Thanks in advance,
PJ

------
Paul Jones, Motorola Urbana Design Center	    paul@urbana.mcd.mot.com
1101 E. University Ave.                              ...!uiucuxc!udc!paul
Urbana, IL, 61801 USA                               (217) 384-8529
From: magras@pacific.cps.msu.edu (Mr. Jean-Claude Magras)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Released Software products..
Date: 10 Apr 92 00:10:25 GMT
Organization: Anarchy Committee
Originator: magras@pacific.cps.msu.edu

Greetings all! I have just returned to the usual crossfire...
(no, I don't like Pat Buchanan..)

I have been looking for a programmer/software engineer job for 10 months
and have used that time to build up a product I hope to move into beta
release within a week (knock on wood!). But... I have also had to rely on 
my parents for support and I have had a temporary contracting job cancelled
for lack of funds just when I thought my soon-to-be boss was going to make
an offer. I started out with a country wide focus but have narrowed it down
to Ann Arbor, Detroit and then the rest of Michigan for the last 3.5 months.

How well would my soon to be product help me in getting a job seeing how
the product is for the apple 2 line of computers which is dying but not
dead by any means yet? Should I incorporate or form some other company to
handle a freeware product ? How do I go about forming that kind of company?

How should I market this accomplishment, I currently have it at the top
in my Independent Project section, below metioning my degree / electives
but before my professional experience. I always include a letter of 
recommendation from last boss.

Thoughts....

Sincerely,


J.C. Magras 

 magras@cps.msu.edu. | 517 337 2267 | 1736 Burcham Dr., E. Lansing, MI 48823
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: ken@Eyring.COM (Ken Farnsworth)
Subject: Re: vote yes for misc.jobs.offered.entry
Followup-To: misc.jobs.misc
Organization: Eyring Corp.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 15:55:06 GMT

 
I vote yes for the entry level news group, too.

Ken Farnsworth
Xref: sparky misc.jobs.misc:3539 dc.general:780
From: scott@asd.com (Scott Barman)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,dc.general
Subject: DC Area Recruiters/Agencies
Date: 15 Apr 92 13:28:47 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: American Software Development Corp., W. Babylon, NY

I am interested in moving to the DC area.  In order to do this I have to
have a job down there so I am asking: does someone know of a DC area
recruiter/agency who can help?  (I would ask for "good" but sometimes
people feel that "good recruiter" is an oxymoron and I haven't had much
success with them as of late).  If it matters, I am *not* entry level!

Please email.  THANKS!

-- 
scott barman			|            LET'S GO METS!
scott@asd.com			|            LET'S GO METS!
				|            LET'S GO METS!
 (I can barely speak for myself, you expect me to speak for my employer??)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,dc.general
From: dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman)
Subject: Re: Computer Systems Supervisor (Sys. Mgr., User Support, etc.), Reston, VA
Organization: Tacoma Screw Products, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 20:08:30 GMT

In article <1914@ra.nrl.navy.mil> ghost@ra.nrl.navy.mil (G. Host) writes:
>A workspace without drug screening is a lot less safe than
>one which does.  Some day a drug addict is going to cause kill
>someone at work.  If it does happen it would be ironic if it was
>someone who is against drug testing.

Then riddle me this -
If I go outside the territorial limit (harder to do with the Coast
Guard and DEA playing pirate on the high seas) and smoke a joint,
then come back in to work the next week, I will test positive to a
drug test.  If I am forced to take the test, "fail" it by testing
positive, and am fired, how does my former workplace suddenly become
safer?

Also -
If a person is so f***ed up on ANY intoxicant that they are risking
the lives of their fellow employees, their poor performance should be
obvious to their supervisor with or without testing.  Drug testing is
a crutch for incompetent management. Any organization requiring testing
should be avoided because advancement in that organization is not
based on demonstrated competence or skill.

>Drug Addiction is a self-inflicted illness which drives up medical
>costs and one which an employer should not be made to pay for.

Being alive drives up medical costs.  Only dead people don't have
medical costs. Drug addicts die sooner, thereby helping to bring down
medical costs. :-)

-- 
David Breneman     Sys Admin, Tacoma Screw Products, Inc. |  ____  ____  ____
dcb@tacoma.uucp              | SCREWIE the TSP CLOWN sez- |   /   /___  /___/ 
 ..!uunet!stephsf!tacoma!dcb |"Stainless steel bolts are  |  /   ____/ / 
CompuServe: 75760,1232       | ferrous but non-magnetic!" |
From: knight@tarkas.tamu.edu (Rob Roberts)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Method of mailing resume
Keywords: n
Date: 11 Apr 92 06:13:15 GMT
Organization: Black Knight Computer Systems

<I was just wondering what the proper method of mailing a resume and
<a cover letter is.  For instance, would it be acceptable to fold the
<documents into thirds and send in a standard letter envelope.  Or
<is it better to send it in a brown large envelope with a clasp on the
<back.  I have had troubles finding large, semi-inexpensive envelopes
<that you can just seal shut.

According to The Overnight Resume by Resume Righters, anything goes.  They even
suggest using mailing tubes to get attention.  I personally use brown kraft 
envelopes (legal size?) that are larger than standard envelopes.  I fold my
stuff in thirds.  I have had less response using 9x12 kraft envelopes and I 
have learned why:
     The HR director's mail is sorted by his secretary, largest on bottom.
     Using my size envelope, which is rarely used by junk mail people or 
     businesses, my resume stands out.  A fairly busy HR Director will get
     80 or more resumes per day, 60-75% of which will be in 9x12 envelopes.
     They get set aside for later automatically.  Another gimmick is to use
     labels on the envelope and put no return address.

Any other comments?  My uncle used to be a head hunter and gave me these tips.

Rob Roberts
knight@tarkas.tamu.edu
From: ghost@ra.nrl.navy.mil (G. Host)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: RFD:  misc.jobs.offered.entrylevel
Date: 11 Apr 92 04:23:36 GMT
Reply-To: ghost@ra.nrl.navy.mil (G. Host)
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, DC

Keywords: RFD misc.jobs.offered.entrylevel

>    Very good point.  There are a LOT of student users of the nets...
>    I wonder if companies might consider the net as a cheaper (and
>    more effective I would guess) alternative to the underfunded and
>    overworked typical college placement offices.

>    It might even be as simple as having those placement offices be
>    agressive about pulling hardcopy of new-grad jobs off postings
>    and making them widely available.


I do just such a thing for several companies I know without
net access.  I wont mention names because of all of the flames
from those who complain about no net access.
I do the same thing for posts in several other news groups
as well.

Lately I have been keeping the lists of the addresses of all of
the posters who have posted resumes, replies and votes on
misc.jobs.offered.  If other people who scan the resumes
did the same thing perhaps enough net.pressure would exist
that no one would want to be blacklisted.

Does anyone know if it possible to set a newsgroup
to automaticly reject replies? That might help this situation.

-- 
Glenn Host - Senior Systems Analyst (ghost@ra.nrl.navy.mil)
NRL Code 5800, 4555 Overlook Ave.; Washington, DC 20375   (202) 767-2046
12307 Tigers Eye Court ; Reston, VA 22091                 (703) 620-1141