HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Life as Art
From: mschmitt@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 29 Jul 92 11:15:19 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <1992Jul28.155507.13160@thinkage.on.ca>, jim@thinkage.on.ca 
(James Alan Gardner) writes:
> In article <1992Jul27.185559.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> 
  rstepno@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>>How do you respond when your date admits that he/she is a novelist
>>(unpublished) and offers to loan you her/his last manuscript
>>about the previous significant other...
> 
> than friendly terms.  I have nothing against writing stuff
> about former relationships as a form of therapy, but writing
> for therapy ain't writing for publication and people shouldn't
> confuse the two.
> 
	In this string, we have definitely touched on a sensitive issue, to put
it mildly.  It hits upon a moral dilemma that many of us may have encountered,
or may be encountering.  I've put myself through the wringer on this topic, in
fact.
	A couple years back, I went through several very poor weekend nights,
with a mildly traumatic effect, plunging me into a state of mild depression. 
And in this state, I sat down each of those 3 Saturday nights, and wrote a
short story about what I had just experienced, and how it was seen through my
eyes.  While extensively based in fact, it was, in the end, fiction (and
purposely so).
	Now, when writing or thinking while in that state of mind, I've found
that some pretty profound things can come out - i.e., depression makes you
philosophical (which I'm sure too many of us are aware of).  I was curious to
see if anyone else agreed with what I had to say in those little pieces, so I
made sure that there was no references to name, and nothing to give away
exactly who I was talking about.  Then I gave them to a friend, who was
impressed, telling me I had just written what many people really think, but
never actually say.
	Since then, they've sat in my short story folder.  Like I said, it was
a couple of years back, references to specific people have been removed - I
don't think anyone could recognize the people involved, if they figured out how
much was fact, and how much was fiction.  Nevertheless, I've hesitated to
release it to one of the local literary magazines.  To date, I haven't.
	Now, why did I write this convoluted mess?  I'm not quite certain.  
But suffice it to say that there are some real, moral questions that a writer 
has to ask him/herself in these situations, and there often is not a clear 
black and white question or answer.

				Matt Schmitt
				mschmitt@eagle.wesleyan.edu
			  "Aspiring SF writer, dreamer, idealist"
				(and part time cynic)
From: miuvdd@lure.latrobe.edu.au
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Query: Aust Uni Correspondance Course
Date: 28 Jul 92 05:33:14 GMT
Organization: VAX Cluster, Computer Centre, La Trobe University


I am considering enroling in a Creative Writers correspondance course
run by the James Cook Univeristy of North Queensland, and would be
very interested to hear from anyone who has done this course, or
knows anything about it.

(I know my chances are pretty slim, but it doesn't hurt to ask, huh?)

I generally steer clear of correspondance courses for writers, but
as this one is run from the Univeristy, it should be okay.

Morgana
**********************************************************************
Reality if for people who can't handle decent fiction...
**********************************************************************
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: M16585@mwvm.mitre.org
Subject: Re:
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:12:17 GMT

In article <BruuwM.CuJ@watserv1.waterloo.edu>
mjanzen@healthy.uwaterloo.ca (Michael Edward Janzen) writes:
 
>
>How many people here are published novelists?
>How much do you make on a book?
>How long do you take to write a book?
>How long did take for you to get your first book published?
>Do you have any basic important rules of things to do
>(or not to do) in a story, and what publisher's to submit to
>for a first novel (and how)?
>I am mainly interested in sci-fi.  I would love to make a
>career of it, but I'd like some area what I'm in for.
>Another thing, what is your background in university (english, or other)?
>Thanks.
>
>Michael
>
>
And how many other people do you ask their salaries of?
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: ah881@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Joyce Brabner)
Subject: Re: Publishing ethnic stories
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 03:00:37 GMT


I've been working on a non-fiction project, about the experiences
of Cambodian-American teenagers growing up in America, as
political refugees.  I was invited to present the book to an
educational press, interested in "multi-culturalism", but was
just told the book may still be an orphan.  A blue ribbon panel of
Japanese/Chinese/Korean-American advisors supposedly said "those
people"-- Southeast Asians-- aren't "interested in books about their
own experiences.  They're too busy assimilating."  The teens I'm
working with call this yellow Asian/brown Asian prejudice, and
I also think there's a little age bias going on as well.  There
were some comments like "those kids don't read".
 
The editor who invited me in is still on my side, but it looks like
this may be a tough sell.  I probably would have better luck if I
was pushing a historical saga, instead of a book about what it was
like to trade the Khmer Rouge and Pol Pot for neighborhoods in the
middle of gang wars (East Boston and L.A.)  But, I'm determined to
get their stories out.
 
--
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Help with Quoted Material
From: mschmitt@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:11:54 EDT
Distribution: na
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <cass8806.96@elan.glassboro.edu>, cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY) writes:
> 
> you don't have to credit anybody as long as the phrase is not copywrited. 
> you can say. you can also quote things that are in the public domain without 
> worrying -- you can say "four score and seven years ago" all you want 
> without ever bothering to mention presiden lincoln. things that people say 
> are not usually copyrighted (or indeed copywriteable) -- if this were true, 
> it would be nearly impossible to write a book at all. you cannot quote 
> copywrited material (such as a poem) without attributing it.
> 
	Okay, suppose I want to quote something on a poster in a story.  Would
the phrase found on that poster be considered copyrighted, or not?  Let me
guess, it depends on whether it's a common phrase, right?

				Matt Schmitt
				mschmitt@eagle.wesleyan.edu
			"Aspiring SF writer and hopeless dreamer"
From: mapd1@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Nigel Ling)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Writing workshops bad? (was Reserach in Fiction)
Date: 30 Jul 92 10:35:16 GMT
Organization: University of Sussex

In article <Bs1vp9.3w5@unx.sas.com> sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com (Fred Welden) writes:
>
...
>I have both heard (from participants) and read (for example, in Harper's
>magazine) the criticism of writer's workshops that they tend to produce 
>literary co-dependents:  participants emerge writing like the workshop
>writes, not like individuals with different and individual messages
>to communicate.  And I believe that one can expect writing really good...

Yes. This is a real problem with workshops, I understand, even with very
famous ones. I remember reading some years ago a similar criticism about
the creative writing course at the University of East Anglia run by
Malcolm Bradbury. It has produced a few Booker prize winners but
apparently many writers who have been through it have the `course style'
about their work. I have never belonged to a workshop (except a computer
one) and so I have no personal experience. But those I know who have are
not very complimentary about them.

I don't read SF magazines but I hear that someone has written an article
which claims that subscribers to these publications are also the
submitters of stories, and this is resulting in material which is just
rehashes of old stuff.

Maybe this doesn't matter if you don't want to write in your own voice,
so to speak. But then where is the point in writing?

Nigel
From: rmr@sgi.com (selfish meme)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: HELP!!! Writer's Block!!!
Date: 30 Jul 92 23:06:47 GMT
Organization: the atrocity exhibition


>I'm in a slump!  I'm in a rut!  I have the dreaded writers block, and
>nothing I do seems to do any good!
>
>So if anyone out there has any ideas how I might overcome this evil
>foe, I would much appreciate it!
>
>
>Morgana


Read something outside of your usual/favorite
genre, keeping your eye out for new ideas.


			Robert.
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Character Names
Date: 30 Jul 92 21:01:58 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <Bs7x3q.KL5@unx.sas.com> sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com (Fred Welden) writes:
>|I'm in the process of writing a story about a character who is of
>|Belgian decent. I'm having a little trouble deciding on a surname
>|that sounds ethic enough for this fellow. Any suggestions?
>|
>
>[Actually, it occurs to me that Belgian names present a somewhat
>special problem--there are two distinct ethnic groups in Belgium, the
>Flemish and the Walloons (sp?)  They speak different languages,
>probably have different kinds of surnames, usually practice different
>religions.  Have you figured out yet which kind of Belgian your
>character is descended from?]



You think you've got problems!  I'm working on a novel that takes
place in India, a country I've spent all of one month in.  When
one factors in religion, caste, region, gender, and whatever else
I'm forgetting, things get extremely complicated.  

I'm just going to ask a few Indian friends of varying backgrounds
to read it for me when I'm finished (or, actually, along the
way).

Got any Belgian friends?


-- 
===============================================================================
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
"What a waste it is to lose one's mind.  Or not to have a mind.  How true  
that is." -- J. Danforth Quayle at United Negro College Fund luncheon
From: mirsky1@husc8.harvard.edu (David Mirsky)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: script-writing software question
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:35:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Jul24.103507.14126
Distribution: na
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1992Jul24.035119.17984@wvus.org> art@wvus.org (Art Nicolaysen) writes:
>
>
>I know that there are specific software programs for screen-writers
>(television/film). I would like to know if anybody has found a similar
>program for play writing.  The main requirement is that the program
>does the standard formatting expected by producers, etc.  Would also
>like to know what computers it runs on, features, documentation, and
>ease of use.  
>
>Thanks in Advance,
>Debbie Martin
>
>
>-- 

Debbie, a program called Scriptor made by Screenplay Systems has
a mode for play writing. The program runs on both IBM's and Macintosh
in conjunction with a word processor. I think that it is compatible
with Word Perfect. I have never actually used it, however. Ive
only read a bit about it. 

The address of the company which makes it:
Screenplay Systems
150 East Olive Avenue
Suite 203
Burbank, CA 91502
(818(-843-6557
 
It costs $295.00. I have no idea if it is worth the price for
what you want.
 
David
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com (Fred Welden)
Subject: Re: Character Names
Originator: sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 20:04:38 GMT
Organization: Dobonia


In article <l7ga0tINN4vp@cronkite>, willo@youcon.Central.Sun.COM (Doug Willoughby  Area SE  - Midwest Area ) writes:
|I'm in the process of writing a story about a character who is of
|Belgian decent. I'm having a little trouble deciding on a surname
|that sounds ethic enough for this fellow. Any suggestions?
|
|Which brings to mind a more generic question, (along the same lines as
|the recent thread about research for fiction) how does one determine
|the origin of a surname? It would be a glaring error to give a Spanish
|character an English surname, but subtle errors are possible and equally
|annoying. Can someone recommend a reference on the subject?

Like naming the Spanish governor of the colony of Louisiana 
Alejandro "Bloody" O'Reilly, for example?  Face it, as far as
countries west of somewhere around Beirut and east of Hawaii go,
practically anybody can have practically any surname, and could have
for a couple of centuries now.  I think a Chinese or Lebanese named 
O'Reilly might be a little farfetched, but I am willing to stand 
corrected.

But what you want is a source of names that won't raise any eyebrows.
Check out the baby name books you can find at your local bookstore--
lots of the names listed are also surnames, and several of these 
books will tell you that and tell you what their language of origin
is.  You could also look at a map of Belgium and pick the name of
an obscure small town for your character's surname, especially if he
is an American of Belgian descent, rather than a Belgian in Belgium.

[Actually, it occurs to me that Belgian names present a somewhat
special problem--there are two distinct ethnic groups in Belgium, the
Flemish and the Walloons (sp?)  They speak different languages,
probably have different kinds of surnames, usually practice different
religions.  Have you figured out yet which kind of Belgian your
character is descended from?]
-- 
--Fred, or another blind 8th-century BC  |  sasafw@dobo.unx.sas.com
        Hellenic poet of the same name.  |
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: betsyp@apollo.hp.com (Betsy Perry)
Subject: Re: Life as Art, vice as versa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:58:02 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Jul28.224026.22911@nwnexus.WA.COM> elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg) writes:
>In article <1992Jul27.185559.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
>     rstepno@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>
>>That is, what do you think about churning your friends' lives into
>>fiction?

I think that it demonstrates both bad manners and a lack of faith in
one's own imagination, if the writer is literal-minded about it.

It's one thing to use your acquaintances's traits as jumping-off
points.  ("Gee, Chuq sure is well-connected.  What if somebody
who had Chuq's connections was actually a mass poisoner plotting
to obliterate the SF community?")  If you take one trait from friend
A, another from lover B, and stir in a healthy chunk of D'Artagnan,
then (1) nobody is likely to recognize him/herself or, worse,
be recognized by the reading public and (2) you've actually created a
character.

But to simply take one of your friends and set him/her down on paper,
adding only a few tentacles and some rather unsavory eating habits,
is rude.  For one thing, if you include an obvious portrait in your
fiction, people will assume that *every single aspect* of the
character was drawn from life.  Secondly, what you believe
to be an accurate portrait may well be viewed as a lopsided caricature
by the victim.  
                                                  
Let me give an example of what the roman a clef can do.
In my mother-in-law's parish, the Episcopal priest is quite
High Church; he has never married, and is widely believed
to have taken a vow of chastity.  A Famous Southern Writer
whose mother lives in the parish took the priest, put all
his little tics down on paper, and made him the homosexual
villain of her novel.  The novel quickly became the parish
scandal; the priest was so shattered that he had a nervous 
breakdown.  (I don't believe that homosexuality is incompatible
with Christianity; however, the priest in question did.)

>   Everything, they say, is grist for the mill.  We've got precious
>little to base characters on except for personal experience.

Nonsense.  I've learned as much from Jane Austen as I have from my
own adolescence.  If you don't believe that experiences in
literature can be as vivid and truthful as real experiences, then why
do you bother to write at all?
-- 
Betsy Hanes Perry   (note P in userid)     betsyp@apollo.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard Company
"It seems to us that the readers who want fiction to be like life are
considerably outnumbered by those who would like life to be like fiction."
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: cgates@mitre.org (Curt Gates)
Subject: Re: Bad Places to have Good Ideas
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:35:22 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.115837.16280@lonex.rl.af.mil> 
gleasont@lonex.rl.af.mil (Todd C. Gleason) writes:
> Don't you just wish you could record those thought patterns the way a 
computer
> saves files, and then recall them when you get anything resembling 
writer's
> block? 

What makes you believe that the thought patterns are not recorded?  This 
was the general drift of my earlier reply.  The problem is in *accsssing* 
the patterns, not in storing them.  Most of the information is there, you 
just can t command your brain to give it up.  If you try to use a 
left-brain engineering approach to accessing, you run up against the 
situation of not being able to find something because you are looking for 
it. There are ways to retrieve the material, and it is worthwhile 
developing those skills.  That s my general suggestion, and a first step 
in that direction might be to intensify what some people call modes of  
images -- the colors, the size, etc. to make the material easier to 
retrieve.
 
> There really is almost no way to keep it all in your head!

Suppose you believe that you *can* keep it all in your head?  If you 
believe that, do you think you will experience different results?  If you 
believe you *can t* remember the material that surfaces in the shower,  
then you have an almost absolute guarantee that you *won t* remember it.  
A self-fulfilling prophecy.  Do you believe that people can recall things 
under hypnosis that they can t recall in normal waking states? Awaken any 
possibilities?

Back at the turn of the century, a French philosopher (Henri Bergson) 
proposed a that people use a combination of intellect and intuition.  This 
idea influenced quite a few writers, including Willa Cather and Robert 
Frost.  If you read  Cather s O Pioneers with this in mind, you can find 
examples everywhere, especially in the daughter Alexandra.  As a writer, 
you have to develop ways to use both types of processing, and you have to 
develop accessing techniques.  I hate to use the term altered state of 
consciousness but that seems to be as close to a description as any I can 
think of.  Unfortunately, that term has a connotation of drugs and 
extremes of behavior.  But if your ordinary state of consciousness leads 
to writers block, what choice do you have?  I personally think Bergson, 
Frost, Cather, and others were onto something, and it is not too removed 
from ordinary modes of behavior. (If you use this for a thesis or journal 
article, please give appropriate credits.) Let the flames begin.

************************************
I worked as a technical writer ... editing manuals ... on how to dispose 
of sewage in permafrost; we all had to wear white shirts -- that was 
mandatory -- and I was fired at the end of two weeks for spending too much 
time staring out the window.  
(Edward Abbey)
************************************ 
Newsgroups: misc.writing
From: mtan@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Maureen Tan)
Subject: Re: Reserach in Fiction
Followup-To: misc.writing
Organization: UIUC
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:02:16 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.185510.21995@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca>,
marcy@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca (Marcy Thompson) wrote:


> Even if I don't understand *why* something
> bothers someone so much, I understand that little things can make 
> that sort of difference. As a writer, it is up to me to decide what
> to do about it.

This sounds like my husband and his turn-off-the-basement-light
compulsion.   I don't understand why it bothers him when
 *that* light is left on-- he has no problem with lightbulbs glowing
 their little watts out  all over the rest of the house. Anyway,
 because I  want to keep him happy,  I try to be as  compulsive
 about that particular light as he is. 

As a writer, I try to cater to the compulsions of the audience
 that reads  my particular genre.  I want to keep them happy.
 I do  enough research so that I don't disrupt their
 "willing suspension of disbelief."  Not a whit  more.  

Maureen (a.k.a. Jane)
"No, damn it, DON'T turn off the light.  I'm down here!"
From: v148rb5b@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (COLLIN MCCULLEY)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Re: Bad Places to have Good Ideas
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:48:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Jul23.171106.17913@ee.ubc.ca>, daveg@ee.ubc.ca 
(Dave Gagne) writes...

> 
>I couldn't get out yet, I was still all soapy, and there were a few
>parts which I hadn't done yet. I rushed through the shower as fast as
>I could, then jumped out and dried myself quickly. I was able to get
>to a pen and my notebook in time to write down all the ideas I had had
>while in the shower, but it was a close thing. 
> 

	Have you considered purchasing for yourself a waterproof
tape recorder, or at least one that's moisture resistant so you can
leave it on the bathroom countertop?  I'll affix a smiley, but its
a potentially serious suggestion. :-)
	Actually having a pocket tape recoder is good for all sorts
of similar situations.

	When I get a musical idea while tooling away at the keyboard,
as often as not I forget it by the next time if it isn't recorded.  Its
the same with my writing ideas, although until now I haven't thought about
the solution.

----------
Collin McCulley		University at Buffalo 		Mech & Aero Eng.
		***All the .sig that's print to fit***
From: mmhemsi@isrc.sandia.gov (Michelle M. Hemsing)
Newsgroups: misc.writing
Subject: Doing Research on Divorces
Date: 30 Jul 92 23:01:58 GMT
Organization: Sandia National Labs, Org. 1600, Albq., NM

I am a college student writing a English research paper
about the effects of a divorce on an individual (whether
they are the husband, wife, children, relative, etc.)  I am
interested in the negative effects as well as the positive
ones (if there are any).  

Please respond as soon as you can, and I would appreciate
it if you could give me some background information.
For example:
	Were you the child of a divorce?
	How old were you?
	How does it effect you today?
	What is your outlook on marriage before and after
the divorce?
Any comments are welcome as well as long responses.  Thank
you.

Sincerely Michelle   mmhemsi@isrc.sandia.gov