HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: Garth Brooks on "Freedom of Choice"
Organization: insert anything here
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 20:04:19 GMT

jontom@ileaf.com (JT Kittredge) writes:
	[regarding Garth Brooks public criticism of TFV...]
>I was particularly heartened that a pop idol went out of his way to
>give this message. It makes up for all the venom from the likes of Mel
>Gibson. 

	No it doesn't.  It does provide a "good example" for other
people to follow though.

>Maybe I need to start listening to country music.

	Yup --- maybe we should start congregating at the
Ramrod on Tuesdays again????

BBC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly)
Subject: Re: British spellings
Date: 03 Sep 92 04:20:21 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

jaw@castle.ed.ac.uk (Graeme Wood) writes:
) coren@osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
) |> What about "defence"? "connexion"? (I don't think this last is current
) |> even in Britain.)

) Defence is the correct British spelling. I don't think words like connexion
) have ever been "correct" in British spelling but I am prepared to be proved
) wrong.

Fowler (Modern English Usage) says you're wrong.  "Connexion"
is the etymological spelling, "connection" is the more common
spelling and it's the standard in the U.S.  I'm the only person
I know who spells it "connexion", so, no, it's not current.
________________
George V. Reilly   <GeorgeRe@Microsoft.Com>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Ball Snaps and Calla Lillies, and a game.
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 10:58:56 GMT


In article <9+knw=r.jfh@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com (Jack
Hamilton) writes:

>He's obviously never seen Walter Mayes, or an acquaintance of mine who was
>a 49er (the foorball team) in their unmentionables.

Please, Jack, strive for accuracy: it's "furball."
The ones with axle grease are, of course, Furrballs.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: musical finale
Date: 29 Aug 92 00:12:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug29.001208.28197
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Aug28.163425.9708@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>>I think Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms suits me better.
>>(There's a good exercise for your lisp.)
>
>That's a wonderful piece, too.  Or his piece dedicated to the city of
>Venice--why am I forgetting its name??  (It had his experiment with
>serialism in the central aria for tenor: "Surge Aquilo".)

I remember now.  Canticum Sacrum.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Date: 24 Aug 92 17:54:43 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.


(me)
:In that case, I would be in the wrong in asking some folks to tone their
:behavior down; that would be like asking someone to suppress being 
:left-handed, just because the majority of people were right-handed.

/(fjvwing)
/Ok Bob, now lets end this. Listen up very closely:

/My behavior is natural, unrehearsed, from the heart, has survived a lot of
/shit, has been here since I was..oh it was always there, and supressing it
/feels like going back into the closet. Ok?



Wonderful.  But you still haven't told me what your behavior *is*.
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Motss interest of Andrew
Date: 28 Aug 92 23:32:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Aug28.233237.17986
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

things really sound bad in Florida, Sim. I'm glad you're ok.

In article <28AUG92.17500442@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov
writes, in part of his description of the devastation in Florida:

>Luckily, the large LGB ommunities are largely intact. How all those
>trees fall and not one lands on a house is beyond me.

the goddess protects her own, maybe? :-)
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                  Where do you conceal the gun in a bikini?
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly)
Subject: PNW (Seattle) mini-con straw poll
Date: 26 Aug 92 06:39:32 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: na

Nelson Minar and I have been tossing around the idea of having a
PNW mini-con for a few weeks.  Originally, Nelson suggested
having the Seattle and Portland motssers meet halfway at a
hot-spring for an evening, but there seemed to be no good
springs to meet at and it's a long way to drive for an evening.
Now we're talking about perhaps having a weekend mini-con in
Seattle.

This is a straw poll to find out who's interested.  I'm
crossposting this to soc.motss and soc.bi with a distribution
of na (North America).  I know of three Chicagoans who
are interested in coming; others from outside the Pacific
North West might also be interested.

Two weekends seem to be good, one in September, one in October.

 1. The weekend of September 19th and 20th.  The NWAF
    (North-West AIDS Foundation) are having their annual AIDS
    walk on the Sunday morning and I presume that many of the
    local motssers will be walking, and that many visitors will
    also be interested in walking.

 2. The weekend of October 24th and 25th.  Ellen Keyne Seebacher
    <elle@midway.uchicago.edu> and Cliff Winnig
    <cliff@uchicago.edu> are going to be in Seattle for a
    musicology conference from October 22nd to 25th.  David
    Parsons <orc@usite-next.uchicago.edu> is also interested
    but can come on either of the proposed dates.


Email your replies to the following questions to me, please:

 1. Your name and the names of those who might accompany you.

 2. Can I use your name(s) in a followup posting or would you
    prefer to remain anonymous?

 3. Are you from out of town and will you need crash space?

 4. How interested are you in having a mini-con in Seattle?
    (not at all; a little; quite a bit; lots; yesyesYES!)

 5. How likely are you to be able to actually turn up?
    (not at all; a little; quite a bit; lots; certain)

 6. How well does September 19/20 suit you?
    What about October 24/25?
    Suggest alternative dates, if not.

 7. If you're a Seattle local, are you prepared to help out
    in organizing or offering crash space or showing visitors
    around?  If you have the space, what about throwing a party?
    I'm not prepared to do everything without some help,
    and it would defeat the purpose if I did.

 8. Suggestions.  I need some concrete suggestions.
    What to do.  Where to go.  What to see.  Where to eat.
    Where to meet.  What not to do.  I've been in Seattle
    for only a few months and don't know my way around as
    well as I'd like yet.
 
 9. Do you have any special needs that should be taken into
    account (mobility, dietary, etc)?

10. Should we create a pnw.motss newsgroup?  Other regions
    (ba and ne) have created local motss newsgroups for postings
    that are of regional interest.

11. Comments.


Thanks.  I'll post a summary in a few days.
________________
George V. Reilly   <GeorgeRe@Microsoft.Com>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 00:01:37 GMT

In article <ROBERTL.92Aug28152644@luciano.Stanford.EDU> robertl@luciano.Stanford.EDU (Robert Lodenkamper) writes:
>
>There is no reason to believe "reasonable discussion" is superior to
>other styles of expression, even if the only purpose of the responses
>is to educate either Sarver or like-minded muffins (which is clearly
>not the case).

An excellent point.  To take an extreme example (though one that has
occured her in motss before), someone arrives and says "All you sick
evil homos are disgusting and you're all going to die of AIDS like
Gd intended!" [usually the stealth lesbians escape their notice, not
existing, after all, but not always]

Do you really expect we will ask nicely why such people say incredibly
stupid hateful things?


NOT.


Ry Schwark
ry@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Gay Homophobia & Allan Williams
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 04:58:04 GMT

In article <1992Aug22.034617.16382@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:

>I have every right 
>to be pissed at straight society; but I don't think that being pissed will 
>get me very far.

Heh.  A butch who can't bring himself to submit to anything -- even
his own anger.  Talk about neurotic.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "I don't know how much support NAMBLA
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  has in the gay community."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Clayton Cramer, August 1992
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 26 Aug 92 10:29:31 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams) asks:
 >Do you honestly think that any of us here ascribe to the notion that
 >all out-of-the-closet gays must be nelly?  In truth, a great deal
 >probably aren't.

Certainly they aren't.  Setting aside the complete dismissal of
those out-of-the-closet types that are female (which is only part of
the problem with the character Alan is answering), it just ain't so.

One of the NY gang (I don't remember who) commented on the
appearance of the Compuqueers who marched in NY's Pride Parade
last June, noting that the dominant (oops) note was that of 
computer nerd.  Now, I'm not going to name names, because I don't 
wanna hurt the feelings of anyone in that crowd, but most of them 
aren't especially noticeable as nelly, even when they're obviously
gay.  But I don't find gatherings of straight computernerds to be
nearly so entertaining.

-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Subject: Re: Is Pat Robertson for real??
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyle, Inc.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 07:33:49 GMT


Bob Sarver (bobsarv@microsoft.com) 
supplies a long-awaited fact:
 
> RE:  Pat Robertson
> 
> [...]  By getting 780 people to pledge ...
> Hence the name ... "The 700 Club".

It does rather beg the question, though,
doesn't it?

--jns
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: B.S. forms a synapse
Date: 24 Aug 92 00:15:39 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.



/(rdonahue)
/	B.S. has a hard time with labels --- apparently he calls
/everyone here who he doesn't agree with "a nelly queen", whether 
/they are or not.  


This, from a man who calls anyone who disagrees with him a homophobe.
Christ, what a hypocrite.
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Fingernail Polish (was Re: The Silent Majority (was: other stuff))
Date: 26 Aug 92 03:20:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug26.032020.17321
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <SHAFER.92Aug25194927@ra.dfrf.nasa.gov> shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes:
>>we have so many things we could talk about instead, like which
>>nail polish colours are going to be "in" this Fall! 
>Jack> So, don't keep us in suspense!  What are they?  Black is passe, red is
>Jack> boring, neon is too valley.  Maybe it's time for iridescents again. 
>Pearlized jewel tones, of course.

Are frosted colors out?

(Still stuck in 1969...)

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ceci@ide.com (Lou Ceci)
Subject: Re: Gay Homophobia (was Re: Too straight looking to be gay???) (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Summary: conformity is not a proper response to violence 
Keywords: violence, conformity, homophobia
Organization: Interactive Development Environments, SF
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 18:23:47 GMT

I should like to point out that in the Congregation for the Doctrine of
the Faith's 1986 "Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the
Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons," you can find language that says
outrageous activities by gay people provoke violence and, well, there's
just nothing we can do about it because it is, after all, a natural
reaction.

The precise wording is:

". . . [T]he proper raction to crimes committed against homosexual
persons should not be to claim that the homosexual condition is not
disordered. . . . [But] when civil legislation is introduced to protect
behavior to which no one has any conceivable right, neither the Church
nor society at large should be surprised when other distorted notions
and practices gain ground, and irrational and violent reactions
increase."

That is the official word of the Roman Catholic Church.

Sound familiar?

--Lou

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: pieter@cs.caltech.edu (Pieter Hazewindus)
Subject: Re: Barbara Bush proves to be as spineless
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 03:30:11 GMT

his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM writes [about Barbara Bush]:
>I believe her heart is in the right place and she really does care.

The mother of a friend of mine went to school with Barbara Bush, in New
Rochelle, NY.  She says even then Barbara knew what she wanted, and she
made sure that she got what she wanted, whatever the cost.  She is
shrewd and ruthless.  If she had been a little younger she would have
found a job as a real estate agent, and made a killing.

Don't let that grandmother-veneer fool you.  The word that comes to
mind to describe her I can't use here -- but it rhymes with "rich."

Oh dear.  Now I'm not sure whether Barbara Bush-bashing is misogynic,
or quite the opposite.

Pieter Hazewindus				pieter@cs.caltech.edu
From: wendyt@cs.washington.edu (Wendy Thrash)
Subject: DeNeuve (was Re: Gai Pied news items, 30th July 1992)
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 17:46:11 GMT

Ron Buckmire:
>The magazine was featured in a little NEWSWEEK gossip piece a few months ago
>because it was one of the fastest growing magazines in the Country at that time.
Eamonn McManus:
>I don't know how many lesbians would agree with the ``most important'' title...

Well, it's probably the most important magazine for lesbians under 20
(assuming we don't count "Tiger Beat").  For those of us at least twice that
age, it's about as important as a persistent skin rash -- irritating, but
of no real consequence.

My favorite issue was the one that featured "Lesbians over 60" (or some such
large integer).  I opened it up expecting to see some striking older women,
and I did -- all in pictures taken when they were in their twenties.  Bleah!

As for Melinda's biker mags and their tattoos, I'd make appropriate rude
noises, but I can't figure out how to spell them.  Good choice, Melinda.
Nevertheless, I'm holding out for the swimsuit issue of "Lear's."  (Or is
it "Lears'" or "Lears" or what?  I mean, how many of them are there, and
do they own the thing, or is it about them?)
---
-Wendy T., actually quite fond of younger women, just grumpy
From: smith@mscf.med.upenn.edu (Amelia T. Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: net queen??
Date: 2 Sep 92 20:13:36 GMT
Organization: Medical School Computer Facility, UPENN

In article <2A92F762.1601@ics.uci.edu>, tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore) writes:
> 
>>Amelia!  Amelia!  I'm happy to settle for Motss Vice Dyke.  (Boy, write
>>one little pome for Arnold and he promotes me!)
> 
> I thought Amelia was the Motss Father Dyke?

Let's see ... that would make me MFD ... I *like* it!
 
> Either way, though we don't get nearly enough of either the Motss
> Great Dyke OR the Motss Vice Dyke!! (I am, like Mara, turning my head
> carefully away from the double entendres.)  More, more!!

Oh, WHY turn your head? (Especially when you ask for more.)

Father Amelia, who is also Bilitis Bear (You're welcome, 
George.).

                   ----- Amelia T. Smith -----
University of Pennsylvania     Internet: smith@mscf.med.upenn.edu 
Opinions: MINE! MINE! MINE!    NBCS: H-f-t-w++d-s+(+)k+p++e++g+
From: kellyc@ul.ie
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: That Vatican Epistle
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:12:56 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland


A request:

On this side of the Atlantic it has proven difficult to get a copy of the 
text of the recent Vatican letter in which the RC church said it is 
acceptable to discriminate against homosexual persons in employment as 
teachers, sports coaches, in the military, and in housing and the adoption 
of children. 

GLEN, the Gay and Lesbian Equality Network, likes to have a copy of original 
wordings of such documents - which probably carry more political weight in 
Ireland than they do in the US and Canada - and do not like to rely solely 
on information contained in press coverage.

The Catholic Press and Information Office in Dublin say that they don't 
have a copy because it was addressed to the American bishops, and the other 
`usual sources' aren't able to get it for GLEN.

Does anybody have a copy of the full text they could send me?

Given the erratic behaviour of our newsfeed, e-mail is preferred.

Many thanks

Cathal

[ob-grammar queen content: is it correct to ask if anybody has a copy 
"they could send me", or should I ask if anybody has a copy
"they could send to me"?]

---------------------------------------------
|     Cathal Kelly                             
|     Ollscoil Luimnigh (Uni. Limerick),    For the benefit of 
|     National Technological Park,          the non-Irish the
| IRL Limerick                              't' in 'Cathal' is       |
|                                           silent and the name      |
      (Ireland)                             is attached to the       |
                                            male of the species.     |
      kellyc@ul.ie                                                   | 
                                --------------------------------------
From: joelp@cs.man.ac.uk (Joel Parthemore || Pharos Project)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: "fuck"
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:44:19 GMT

nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>Is there any good explanation for the multiple uses of the word
>"fuck"?

....

>...I don't understand using the word "fuck" to describe people.
>Phrases like "you stupid fuck" or "dumbfuck" as insults for people -
>what's going on? Is it just that the word "fuck" is inherently
>obscene and nasty, and so is useful even when it is ungrammitical?

Two answers come to mind:

I remember a wonderful article by someone named something like Wang Fuc Du, on
the conjugation of the construction ``to fuck''.  It's a serious linguistic
analysis of ``fuck'' that is at the same time absolutely hilarious.  I found
it in some linguist's (guy named Macaulay? maybe) ``Festschrift'', lent me by
my linguistics professor.  Arnold could probably help with the reference.

Du argues that ``fuck'' as in ``fuck you'' is not a verb at all, but some new
sort of construction:  one can say ``fuck you'' but not ``fuck you slowly'';
and ``fuck me'' has an entirely different meaning.

....

Any word having to do with excretion or intercourse seems to double as a swear
word:  ``shit'', ``crap'', ``fuck'', ``screw'', ``frig'', etc.  Mary Douglas,
a religious anthropologist, argues (I think this is right; it's been a while
since I read her) that all or most societies tend to use the human body as
some model for constructing themselves:  the physical body is projected
outward, used as a plan for dividing and categorizing the world.

As a consequence/tangent to this, anything that crosses the boundaries of the
body -- physical or societal -- is highly dangerous and imbued with great
sacred power:  this includes tears, spittle, semen, feces, urine.  The
strongest taboos generally are connected with these substances and any
activities involving them.  Words involving them or their associated
activities are logically also imbued with power.

(Reference:  Mary Douglas, PURITY AND DANGER:  AN ANALYSIS OF THE CONCEPTS OF
POLLUTION AND TABOO, Routledge & Kegan Paul, Boston, 1980.)

Joel,
      who has clipped one of the Marquis de Sade's quotes (wow)

>nelson@reed.edu \/                   There is absolutely no other possibility
hecateae@cs.man.ac.uk      ||         Don't Dream It; Be It
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: An obvious solution
Date: 27 Aug 92 03:40:25 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Aug26.134948.26275@fig.citib.com>
glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:

]1. When nelly queens display themselves for public view,
]all the non-nelly closeted gay men think there are no
]other "normal" guys like them, so they stay in the
]closet.

]2. Society sees only these nelly queens and therefore
]thinks badly of all gay men (lesbians have their own
]reasons for being bad, I guess.)  Straight society 
]doesn't see all the "normal" guys.

]It would seem that we are stuck with all the normal
]guys in the closet, except:

]3  All these "normal" closeted guys talk to each other
]about how much they hate the nelly queens.  Therefore,
]they know other normal gay guys exist and should be
]able to all come out and provide other normals and
]straight society with the role models that are so 
]desperately needed.

]Things can be changed; the "normal" guys just want
]the nelly guys to make all the sacrifices.

Funny thing is, I think, that the conclusion seems to follow
from the flawed premises, despite those flaws.  It makes
about as much sense as the "special status" arguments
advanced by ignorant bigots in Louisville, KY on Tuesday,
when they voted 8-4 to defeat a proposal to amend the civil
rights law to protect homosexuals.

To that I say: just give us equal rights now and we'll let
ya know later if we want anything else.  That seems a
pretty obvious solution too. 

The article in our local paper today mentions that 69 other
cities and counties and 6 states have such laws (no list,
though).

<> Wesley: "Captain, this doesn't look like the holodeck to
<> me."  Worf: "Ready to cycle airlock, Captain."  Picard:
<> "Make it so."
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888