HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: covdy@shemesh.metaphor.com (Ivan Covdy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Russophob Belov
Date: 10 Sep 92 17:07:41 GMT

in article <LEONID.92Sep9172200@thyme.uchicago.edu>, leonid@thyme.uchicago.edu (Leonid Andreev) says:
[...]
> Shafarevitch; All these patriots keep using the term in a
> sense "russophob is a person who hates Russia and Russians".
> Which is apparent b...shit! ( Yapp, maybe it is the other half
> of the word which should've been substituted by ... )
> By it's literary meaning, `russophob' should be a person who
> IS AFRAID of russians! So why should we, jentlenetters, follow
> these illiterate people and use this word at all? 
> 

Language is not math, it shouldn't be precise.

Some time ago, they used "yudofob" instead of "antisemit", 
then both as synonymes, and it took awhile when the second 
took over. 

Let's wait when they invent something else instead of that "russophob".
"Russophob" is been in use for more then a centuary
Russians didn't care too much about being hated by others, so they
didn't invent something more decent. Times are changing, looks like
they started to care.

I think "antIrus" (emphasize on I) sounds better.

-- 
  Ivan Covdy, covdy@shemesh.metaphor.com, METAPHOR Inc.,  CA,  USA
 *** People are looking for a Mind somewhere in the Universe,      ***
 *** because on the Earth they've been finding only the Stupidity. ***
From: qasama@wpi.WPI.EDU (John Grossi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: A Flaming Idea
Date: 9 Sep 1992 22:34:25 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu

In article <1992Sep09.142243.24400@watson.ibm.com> bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy) writes:
>In article <1992Sep9.090039.10357@cco.caltech.edu> patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz) writes:
>>I love being around the kitchen table in Moscow, drinking tea, talking
>>with Russian men (and women.) Russian men are far better at meaningful
>>conversation than American men, it seems. 
>>
>>-patricia
of course they are they don't have to talk to American women everyday.
;)


(smiley captioned for the humour impaired) (Look for the [SC] symbol on a post near you)
[SC]
-- 
_______________________________________________________________________________
qasama@wpi.wpi.edu  / V   V OOOO TTTTT EEEE\ Always store beer in a dark place.
Worcester Polytech /_ _V V  O  O   T   EEE  \__ Moderation is for monks.
God save Lazurus Long!/ v   OOOO   T   EEEE    \ Women need no excuse.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: Koenigsberg/Kaliningrad
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 08:18:45 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.075613.17870@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>In article <188uf1INNa3g@agate.berkeley.edu> muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep4.072539.3173@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>>>>
>>>
>>>1809 Finland fell under a Russian administration after a
>>
>>Are you sure you have not missed 100 years. Knowing the way people
>>they are teach in Finnish schools, you know :). Seriously am I wrong
>>that Finland was taken from Sweden by Russia at the 1700's?
>>
>>>
>There was a war called War of Finland 1807-09 when Sweden "lost"
>Finland for Russia. From Swedish point of view the war was a disaster.
>Most of the battlefields were on the Finnish soil and around the
>area where I live is quite many memory-stones of those battles.
>Yes it was really 1809. Since that Sweden has not had, I think any
>more wars and former quite a large Swedish "Empire" become to its
>size where it is now. Sweden had before 1807-09 war lots of wars
>with Russia were the borders were changing constantly but the whole Finland
>fell under Russian adminstration 1809.
>
>Of the rest we have different views. I don't consider Estonian
>adminstration especially bad or the situation of russians so bad as you
>in Estonia.
>Jarmo
>>
>>Yury
>
>


Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:7546 talk.politics.soviet:7893
From: muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: ESTONIA and human rights (Was: "demo
Date: 13 Sep 1992 20:58:27 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep13.135241.1@cc.helsinki.fi> thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi writes:
>There are, at least, three possible alternatives:
>
>(1) The point of view shared by many of Russian-speakers:
>    The Estonian Socialist Soviet Republic (1944-1991) 
>    has become independent, and it's residents should 
>    all have the citizenship.
>
>(2) The Estonian Republic (1918-1940) was unjustly occupied
>    by Stalin, and consequently, it should be re-established.
>    This is the view shared by the vast majority of Estonians,
>    and backed by most of European nations that recognized
>    Estonian republic as "an existing state" like all Nordic 
>
>(3) One could also try to form the "third Estonian republic"
>    with new political bodies. In this pure form, this view
>    is supported by no one, as far as I am aware.
>
 (4) The point of view shared by some Russians (excluding myself):
reastoration of Russian Empire, illegaly dissolved in 1917.

As for recognition of international community, did it not recognize 
Soviet Union with Estonia as a part of it, before 1989 or so? 

BTW, point number 1 reflects most recent fact. Nobody would argue that
ESSR existed and was internationally accepted. OK my point is that on
every single legal argument one can find contrargument with a net result
of increasing level of life of lawers. So, I would base my desision on
what is best for the people, and what would grant peace in Baltic
state. What Estonia (and other Baltic states) will loose if it will
accept all Russian as citizens? Some pressure from Russian culture?
Healthy culture will only benefit from such pressure. Possible political
pressure from Russia, to protect ethnic Russians? The better those
Russians are accepted, the less are grounds for this pressure. Wise policy
will make Russian Estonian citizen reject any "protection" themselfs.
So current national policy reminds me saying "Etim ludjam ne nuzhen hleb
bezx scandala, im nuzhen scandal bez hleba." 

Yury
From: SCATTONL@snycenvm.bitnet ("Linda H. Scatton")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: A Flaming Idea
Date: 8 Sep 92 16:28:56 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>
Organization: State University of New York - Central Administration

Re: the possibility of Gogol's homosexuality

    I think Simon Karlinsky has written a whole book or a long article on pre-
cisely this subject, seeking confirmation from Gogol's texts themselves.  Can't
recall the title at the moment, but I'm sure a librarian --or one of our less
militant homophobes on this net -- could help.
                                                    Linda Scatton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: viznyuk@physics.ucla.edu (Sergei Viznyuk)
Subject: Re: Bulgakov
Organization: UCLA Department of Physics
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 21:29:26 GMT

In article <18ts8gINN6dm@rodan.UU.NET> avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov) writes:
>In article <12SEP199223291798@vxcrna.cern.ch> budziak@vxcrna.cern.ch (Alfred P.Budziak) writes:
>>[M&M]
>>I can not decided which of this version I like better the translation
>>or the original one. 
>
>Then you missed a lot -- it has a lot of hidden hints and subtle
>meanings which inevitably get lost in translation.
>
  But probably not in translation to Polish.
S.V.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Bulgakov
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 04:42:53 GMT

>>THE MASTER AND MARGARITA is one of the best and funniest books I've read.

>I wonder: did you (and Patricia) read M&M in Russian
>or an English translation ?  What I happened to see
>in book stores in US was really awful comparing to
>original text. Though I cannot imagine how one could
>translate "Master i Margarita" without losing 90% of
>its flavors.
> S.V.

There are two English translations: by Michael Glenny and by Mirra Ginsburg.

I myself found the Glenny translation abominable, and the Ginsburg
rather good.

Although the English language itself is not really up to the poetic
possibilities found in Russian...

I am now reading the Master in Russian, and I haven't lost respect for
the Ginsburg translation yet.

-patricia
From: gorelik@sgi.com (Michael Gorelik)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Philip Morris
Date: 12 Sep 92 03:30:50 GMT
Organization: not very much

In article <15016@mindlink.bc.ca> Robert_Broughton@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Broughton) writes:
>Is it true that prominent U.S. drug pusher Philip Morris is setting up a
>processing plant in Russia?
>--

Don't know about drug pusher, but Philip Morris Cos., a diversified manufacturer
of consumer and food products going to build a large 
manufacturing plant in Russia. Philip Morris, considered by many 
one of the best managed companies in US, will invest 
a much needed capital and provide a marketing and management expertise 
and training. The marketing and management skills may be  
even more valuable to the Russians than capital.
The plant will provide many high paying construction and manufacturing jobs 
for which there is a great need. 
After completion the plant will be making a high quality consumer products 
much desired by the Russian consumers. Part of the production will be 
exported and will earn a needed hard currency. 

A really good deal for both, Russia and Philip Morris, wouldn't you say Robert?
You would be amazed, Robert, there are some people who are unhappy 
about this deal. Those who would like to take away our freedom to inhale. 
But you and I, we know better, don't we? 

>*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
>
>Robert Broughton    Robert_Broughton@mindlink.bc.ca
>
>"We calm and reassure. We embrace people with the message that we're
>all in it together. That our leaders are infallible and that there is
>nothing, absolutely nothing wrong." - Miles Drentell, _thirtysomething_

MG
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet
From: muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Master and Margaret and other books
Date: 13 Sep 1992 21:28:20 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu

In article <9209120039.AA14948@feds66.Prime.COM> "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:
>
>>what was so good about Avel, for example.
>
>You mean, what was so good about that he got killed? I don't see much,
>do you? Or you mean why his offer was good, as opposite to Kain's? So
>ask him, or God.

I mean he was a crook. Plain straigt-forward crook. The fact that crook
was murdered does not make him saint.

Yury, passing article through spell checker to please D.L. and writing
this to please news server, who needs more new text than included one. Seems
like most of you happy guys do not have this feature.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: "democratic" Estonia
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 05:58:27 GMT

muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky) writes:
: In article <18n7foINN83a@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> dima@maths.uwa.oz.au (Dima Pasechnik) writes:
: >Suppose for a moment that French-speaking people have come into power in
: >Swiss, expel all German-speaking people from citizenship (as 'occupants', say),
: >and set a French language test passing as a necessity to become a
: >citizen again. 
: >Estonia. What will be the reaction of German-speaking part of Swiss.
: >(And reaction of Germans at all).
: 
: It depends whom you are asking about it. If Frenchmen, like Jarmo does
: then answer will be:
: 1. Nobody expelling them
: 2. They are happy to be expelled.
: 3. Whoever think opposite is brainwashed product of close society, who do not
: have any information and is not able to digest it properly.
: 
: Yury

Again these poor russians are happily mixing people who have lived
for centuries on the area like Swiss germans with russian
immigrants in Estonia. All russians who were citizens 1920-1940 
of Estonia get automatically citizenship as their children.
For the russians seem to be impossible to divade these things.
I recommend a trip in Europe for them.
Jarmo
From: polyakov@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Dimitri Polyakov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: et tu, Pushkin
Date: 10 Sep 92 22:51:54 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

Why thinking so badly about A.S.Pushkin???He's just a kind good
Russian poet,maybe,a bit modernistic,but in any case he is not female.
P.S.Hope now you  have realised this.If not,I refer you to
"Tret'ya Modernizatsiya" -this is the magazine of contemporary Russian
art.
From: alex@took.enet.dec.com ("Alex Allister Shvartsman, EMF,              LKG2-2/T2 06-Sep-1992 0757")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Romanian language (was: Estonia)
Date: 6 Sep 92 12:07:20 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

Sergei Viznyuk writes:

>  As you may know, the ORIGINAL script of MOLDAVIAN
> language was Cyrrilic, except for the time, Moldova was
> occupied by Romania, i.e. during 20 years. Therefore,
> the question is WHY Moldavians were FORCED to change
> their script to Latin ? [...]

Sergei, could you please substantiate your assertion thet the "ORIGINAL
script of MOLDAVIAN language was Cyrillic"? Could you also explain to
us what is the difference between the Romanian and Moldovan languages?
Also, if you do not mind, could you tell as WHERE is Moldova located
and when were Moldovans forced to switch alphabets?

As usual, with this line of questioning I am claiming that the
above statement by Viznyuk is complete nonsense.

Alex
From: zhelud@drfmc.ceng.cea.fr (Andrei Zheludev)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: The least nationalistic nation
Date: 9 Sep 92 12:42:58 GMT
Organization: Conspiracy International
Originator: verbits1@husc9.harvard.edu

>
>-patricia
>
>PS I can see how "Red Heat" and "Dr. Zhivago" would make you angry.
>Especially "Red Heat" which I think is definitely racist against Russians.

You make me laugh! If you think that there is racism against Russians in
"Red Heat" it means that you have no idea of what humour is. The only
reason why I dislike "red Heat" is that compared to other films with Arnold
it's rather badly staged- you can see the decorations are actually decorations.

AaaaAAAAAaaaaAAAAaazZZZzzzzzzZZzzzzZZzzzz
From: rsridhar@eng.buffalo.edu (Ramalingam Sridhar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Russia trip, visa and other details
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:20:16 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, SUNY at Buffalo
Originator: rsridhar@opus.eng.buffalo.edu



I need to visit russia in October.  Can someone tell me where a russian
consulate is in New York (phone numbers and address if available) and 
if you have an experience, the time it may take to obtain a visa?  Any
other advise will also be helpful.

Thanks.

Sridhar

-- 
=============================================================================
email: internet:  rsridhar@opus.eng.buffalo.edu

=============================================================================
From: pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Currency exchange in Moscow
Date: 5 Sep 92 16:23:14 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

Hi all!

The local discussion about hard currency exchange rate in Moscow
first made me laugh, then weep.

Two weeks ago I needed 58,000 rubles. I has US$ 300. After exchanging
them at black market course I got 59 thousand and something rubles. 
And now the black market exchange rate is about 250 rubles for one
buck. The banks buy dollars for lower price - 165-190 rubles, so
using black market "service" is reasonable. The safest place for 
exchange operations is near Aeroflot main office in Moscow (Metro
"Park Kultury").

So please do stop these talks about 30rbl=1US$ etc., they make me
lament the Communist times...
-- 
Thus spake Kalmoth the Vile, Slayer of the Seven Pigs of the North.
From: vlad@erg.sri.com (vlad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Re: On Bulgakov's anti-semitism (was RE: Re: Bulgakov"
Date: 10 Sep 92 22:39:36 GMT
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, CA

In article <SCS-L%92091000352796@INDYCMS.BITNET> "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:

>  Correct me, if I am wrong, but I do not remember in "Master..." any indication
>of the nationalities of heroes.  Therefore, it will be very difficult for me
>to see any evidence of anti-semitism in Bulgakov's works.

Well, we could speculate which Bulgakov's heroes in Master, Sobachie
Serdtse, and Rokoviye Yaytsa ( I recall the main vilain there also had a
Jewish-sounding name) are meant to be Jewish and which aren't. However, it
boils down to the fact that, unlike Belov, Rasputin, Shafarevich, and other
ultra-nationalists, Bulgakov definetely was not a militant Jew-hater. Maybe
he disliked Jews, like some dislike Germans, poets, or soccer players, but
he never called for violence against them.

However, I do think htat he did not like Jews. What irritated me most was
his description of my ancestors in Palestine. Every Jew that he describes
there is evil, cowardly, dirty and/or stupid. Every non-Jew is noble. Like
Pontiy Pilat, 
the occupier of Palestine. In fact, Bulgakov even refuses to let Jesus be a Jew.
He has Jesus say something like: "I don't know who my mother was but my
father is Assyrian". Bull. Real Jesus knew who his mother was: she was
Mary (a Jew). And his father was either Joseph (who was a Jew) or G-d, who
does not seem particularly Assyrian to me. :-)

But this is so subtle that can be attributed to author's imagination and
his right to invent things. Unlike people like Rasputin and Shafarevich who
spout their hatered of jews in all directions.

And, let's face it: many other Russian writers, including Gogol,
Dostoyevsky, and even Chekhov and Tolstoy, had a lot of ani-Jewish
prejudices too. But they still are great writers. And so is Bulgakov, who
is pure pleasure to read.

Vlad

Employer disagrees
From: dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM (Dmitri Leschiner)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: A Flaming Idea
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:18:52 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

>Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:12:27 GMT
>From: Oleg Vishnepolsky <oleg@WATSON.IBM.COM>

>In  <9209081654.AA14134@pooh.cco.caltech.edu>
>patricia@CCO.CALTECH.EDU ("Patricia M. Schwarz") writes:
>> ... it's nice to see another woman in this group.

>Ditto. This is a sexist remark and I apologize in advance.


Homosexist, I'd say.
From: mashina <novost@halcyon.com>
Subject: st'ka razin (here it is)
Originator: novost@halcyon.com
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 04:08:00 GMT


Someone a while back was looking for the words for Sten'ka Razin.
Well, I found them in an old book I had and her they are along
with the translation.
The poetry is by D.N. Sadovnikov.  Middle of the XIX Century.

Iz-za ostrova na strezhen'
Na prostor rechnoj volny
vyplyvayut paspisnye Sten'ki Razina chelny.
vyplyvayut paspisnye Sten'ki Razina chelny.

Na perednem Sten'ka Razin
Obnyavshis'sidit s knyazhnoj,
Svad'bu novuyu spravlyaet
Sam veselyj i khmel'noj

Pozadi ix slyshen ropot:
Nas na babu promenyal,
Tol'ko noch' s nej provozzhalsya -
Sam na utro baboj stal.

ehtot ropot i nasmeshki
slyshit groznyj ataman,
i on moschnoyu rukoyu
obnyal persiyanki stan

Brovi chernye soshlisya,
nadvigaetsya groza,
Bujnoj krov'yu nalilisya
atamanovy glaza.

"Vse otdam, ne pozhaleyu,
Bujnu golovu otdam",
Razdaetsya golos vlastnyj
Po okrestnym beregam.

Volga, Volga, mat'rodnaya
Volga, russkaya reka!
Ne vidala ty podarka
Ot Donskogo kazaka!

"I chtob ne bylo razdoru
Mezhdu 'nymi lyud'mi
Volga, Volga, mat' rodnaya
Na krasavitsu primi!"

Chto zh vy, cherti, priunyli?
Gej ty, fil'ka-shut, plyashi!
Gryanem, bratci, udaluyu
Na pomin ee dushi!

From the island on the river,
Carried by the Volga tide,
Stenka Razin's galleons ride.
Stenka Rasin's galleons ride.
On the first sits Stenka Razin
Clasps to him a princess fine,
Celebrates his royal wedding
with uch gaiety and wine

And around them goes a murmer;
"For a skirt he's swapped us all,
But one night he has been with her
And the wench did him enthrall."

All this murmer and this taunting
Hears the ataman's sharp ear,
And the strong arm of the captain
Clasps the form to him so dear.

His dark eyebrows drawn in anger
Loud and thunder rings his voice,
And the leader's eyes spark fire, 
And he's shouting through the noise;
"I'll give all I value highly,
My proud head I'll forfeit yet",
Proudly rings his voice with passion
Thundering over the river's bed.

Volga, Volga, Motherp-Volga,
Even from the days of yore -
Have you ever from a Cossack
Seen a precious gift before?

"Not to sow dissent among us
Band of braves, so strong and free,
Take her, Volga, Mother Volga,
Let my beauty now thine be."

Hey, ye devils, why so gloomy?
Why so pensive is your glance?
Cheer ye up, and sing in chorus!
????????????????????


Please excuse any erros, as I only copied it as it was and
provided it for information.  (The translation is not mine)
                       Jeff
From: muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: "democratic" Estonia
Date: 10 Sep 92 21:48:23 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu

In article <18n7foINN83a@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> dima@maths.uwa.oz.au (Dima Pasechnik) writes:
>Suppose for a moment that French-speaking people have come into power in
>Swiss, expel all German-speaking people from citizenship (as 'occupants', say),
>and set a French language test passing as a necessity to become a
>citizen again. 
>Estonia. What will be the reaction of German-speaking part of Swiss.
>(And reaction of Germans at all).

It depends whom you are asking about it. If Frenchmen, like Jarmo does
then answer will be:
1. Nobody expelling them
2. They are happy to be expelled.
3. Whoever think opposite is brainwashed product of close society, who do not
have any information and is not able to digest it properly.

Yury
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: iar1@ellis.uchicago.edu (ilona a raitsimring)
Subject: Re: A Flaming Idea
Reply-To: iar1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:27:08 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.051504.18478@cco.caltech.edu> patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz) writes:
>Heheh ;) this will probably get me some hate mail for sure,
>but I've had this discussion with some other people who didn't think it
>was crazy, so here is my question:
>
>Was Gogol gay?
>
    Dear Patricia!
What was the Name of the gentleman Gogol wrote the letters to? And in what 
years? Thank you much. 
Please reply directly. Respectfully, 
                     

-- 
==========================================
Ilonka Raitsimring,     5514 S.Blackstone
(312) 955 5012          Chicago IL 60637
==========================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet