HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: as432@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Scott Dettra)
Subject: Re: Bach cantatas:Recommendation
Reply-To: as432@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Scott Dettra)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 05:54:58 GMT


In a previous article, simona@panix.com (Simona Nass) says:

>I strongly recommend any Bach pieces with Joshua Rivkin conducting, if

His name is Joshua RiFkin.




>that's your thing. He uses authentic instruments, only one voice per part
>(greater clarify and lighter tone), etc. I like Cantata 147. -S.
>-- 
>Disclaimer: I am not an attorney, though I do have an opinion on everything.
>     (     simona@panix.com    or    {apple,cmcl2}!panix!simona     )
>
>   STUYVESANT H.S./NYC alums: e-mail me about the alumni e-mail directory
>
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Classical CD Clubs
Date: 29 Jul 92 11:47:18 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Jul28.191609.24277@u.washington.edu>  
lmeissne@milton.u.washington.edu (Loren Meissner) writes:
> 
>  just recently bought a CD player. Are there any "classical" 
> "record clubs" for CD's. If so which ones are the best ones. 
> I will probably be ordering full-length operas and <ouch> those can get  
costly at retail record stores. Also, are there any good mail order firms  
aout there
> for ordering entire opera CD sets?

The BMG Compact Disc Club is by far the best.  You start out with
4 CDs, but only have to buy one more, at which point you get a couple
of more free CDs. They also most months work on a "buy one, get
another for free or half price (depends upon the month; one month
it was even two free for buying one). They have a good selection,
and they are good at sending you what you want and not sending you
what you don't want.

Avoid Columbia House. There you start with 8 or 9 free, but have to
buy lots more. They have fewer discounts, and they often send
you what you don't want.  Even though I was pretty good upon
returning my reply card, every couple of months I had to return a
selection to them.   

--
Jim Mann       jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  Stratus Computer
From: alves@calvin.usc.edu (William Alves)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: minimalism
Date: 29 Jul 1992 11:14:28 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: calvin.usc.edu

Marc San Soucie writes:
>>>Dare I suggest that Glass is the Mozart/Haydn/Vivaldi of our time? Cranking 
>>>out endless variations in a single style with little significant change? In 

[Lots of people take issue]

While I, too, might argue a bit with the choices, I have to say in Marc's
defence that there is a big difference in expectations now from the expec-
tations of composers before Beethoven, and especially before the Baroque.
Because innovation and individuality have become such high priorities in
music, there is an expectation that composers will go through clearly
identifiable "periods." If they don't we suspect their creativity of drying
up, even if their later works are every bit as good as their earlier ones.

Of course, some change in a composer's output is bound to take place because
of the composer's change in ability and change in outlook. But compare for
a moment the change in style from Bach's Weimar period to his late cantatas.
Certainly an undeniable change, and hardly just "cranking out" new works
in a constant style. Now compare that amount of change to the change between
Stravinsky's Fireworks and Requiem Canticles, or Schoenberg's Verklaerte
Nacht and Ode to Napolean, or the change in Stockhausen or Webern.

Now granted, (as musicologists are often reminding us) we may be less 
sensitive to stylistic changes in music from hundreds of years ago than
changes in our own time. But I still think that there is a real quantitative
difference in the examples above.

This doesn't mean that I think Bach is any less great a composer for it -
far from it. I think part of his genius lay in turning out truly inspired
masterpieces on a weekly basis within the confines of his style. As reluc-
tant as I am to join in the fashionable Glass-bashing, I think his corpus
of work falls short in this regard.

Someone quoted Glass to the effect of composers today effect TOO much change
in their style over time. (I would like to find out the source of that quote,
by the way.) I just don't think a composer's change in style really should
be an aesthetic criterion or taken as a reflection of the composer's crea-
tivity or lack thereof.

I am reminded of this issue when I go to art galleries sometimes. Painters
seem to be able to get away with producing the same work with minor varia-
tions for YEARS. I was especially struck by this when I saw a recent exhibit
of Ad Reinhardt, though there are many other artists about whom one could
say the same thing. Yet do critics berate them for "not growing"? I enjoyed
the Reinhardt exhibit immensely.

Bill Alves
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: "The Pilgrim's Progress" and "Wuthering Heights"
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:04:18 GMT
	<1992Jul24.071135.8768@newshost.anu.edu.au>
Organization: pubs
In-reply-to: bill@rsphy7.anu.edu.au's message of Fri, 24 Jul 92 07:11:35 GMT

Bill Alford writes:

   ... Hyperion have released a CD of the radio version of The Pilgrims
   Progress which I have yet to purchase and have heard a small amount
   of, but I hope that they (or somebody else) with great empathy for
   RVW's works will get around to a modern recording of the full The
   Pilgrims Progress instead of the umpteenth version of the 1812, etc.

Does this imply that the two versions you've discussed are incomplete?
If so, how much is omitted?  Also, how do the Hyperion and Boult
versions compare?  Are they both currently available?

Chris Brewster
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay)
Subject: Re: minimalism
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 22:55:14 EDT

In article <BrLK0v.v4@news.cso.uiuc.edu> erwin@helsinki.ks.uiuc.edu (Edgar
Erwin) writes:

>RILEY: Most famous pieces are probably `In C', which involves several
>instruments playing a few short motives over and over in an improvised
>order, and`Shri Camel', for synthesizer...

Are these really his most famous pieces?  What about "Rainbow in Curved
Air?"  Or "Persian Surgery Dervishes?"  PSD is my favorite work of all of
them, and after 20 years of listening, I still enjoy keeping it on at a
very low volume as an ambient sound.  (My other constant companion is Brian
Eno's "Music for Airports.")

"In C," like many such pieces, comes across much less effectively on record
than it does in performance.  Steve Reich's DG recording of "Drumming" is
the best example I know of a work being recorded note for note with only
the interest left out.

Chris Ischay
chrisi@camex.com
(note: my address has changed)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: carnes@sparky.eecs.umich.edu (Richard Carnes)
Subject: Re: Is it Ludwig van, Van, von or Von Beethoven?
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 13:09:17 GMT

Ludwig van Beethoven.  I think the name is of Dutch origin and means
"of the beet field"; Beethoven's ancestors were from an area in what
is now Belgium.  When Beethoven moved to Vienna it was widely assumed
that the "van" indicated noble birth, as "von" does in Austria.  This
was just fine with Beethoven, who believed that he was entitled to a
place among the aristocracy on account of his talents and great
achievements.  Maynard Solomon has even proposed that Beethoven had a
fantasy/delusion throughout his life that his real father was someone
more important than the alcoholic tenor from Bonn, perhaps the king of
Prussia.

The truth, however, came out in 1818 when Beethoven was involved in
litigation against his sister-in-law for the guardianship of his
nephew Karl.  When Beethoven accidentally revealed that he was not of
noble birth, the case was transferred to a lower court, and he was
infuriated at being assigned to a court suitable only for "innkeepers,
cobblers and tailors", as he wrote in a letter.

Richard Carnes
Noted authority.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ladasky@netcom.com (John J. Ladasky II)
Subject: Re: Composition
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 17:05:07 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Distribution: usa

elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies) writes:
>colby@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Colby Leider) writes:
>
>>Are there any composers out there on the net?
>
>Yes, there are a few of us out here.  We rarely discuss our
>music here, probably because there isn't a good way to transmit
>it over USENET;

	Well, there was a posting a couple of days ago asking what became
of rec.music.compose.  It seems that newsgroup hasn't quite started yet - and
perhaps the issue I'm about to raise is better addressed in that forum.
However...

	Do people out there have methods for sending/receiving music in
digital formats?  By this, I mean both scores and audio.  I use a crude but
effective music typesetting program that puts out Postscript (EPS) files.
I haven't gotten into digital audio much, but I can see that it would be
possible to dump audio from a DAT machine, and transmit it in some com-
pressed format.

	It would be really useful to have MUSIC in front of you when
someone asks a musical question.

	Any ideas?


-- 
=============================================================================
 John J. Ladasky II ("ii")				(ladasky@netcom.COM)

 "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the
 American people."					      - H.L. Mencken
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
	      Disclaimer : My employer?  Internet?  Yeah, right!
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rtut@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Raymond Tuttle)
Subject: Gigli's "Sacred Songs"
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 22:27:39 GMT


Beniamino Gigli is one of my favorite tenors, and I welcome almost
every new disc of his singing that comes along. EMI/Angel released a
stack of them a few years ago, but several of these are already out of
print. 

I was pleased to see a new EMI/Angel disc entitled "Canti Sacri"
("Sacred Songs"), featuring the tenor in 11 religious or semi- religious
selections recorded between 1932 and 1956 (CDM 69235, mid-priced).
This disc features some of the most beautiful unsubtle vocalism ever
recorded. Gigli's concept of spiritual devotion is to sing in the same
lachrymose manner in which he sings "E lucevan le stelle" from
Puccini's "Tosca."  I adore it, but I forgive those who find it tasteless.
Even so, they shouldn't miss his recording of the "Berceuse" from
Godard's (Benjamin, not Jean-Luc!) "Jocelyn," as honeyed a piece of
singing as there ever was, although I'm not sure what's so "sacred"
about it. 

I do find it hard to understand why this disc lasts for less than 40
minutes, considering the fact that several of Gigli's commercial
recordings have yet to reach CD.  Where are the classical Italian arias?
Where is "Non ti scordar di me?" It would have made sense to fill the
disc up with more material, but EMI Italiana (who seems to be the
parent of this CD) missed their chance. Oh well, here's hoping that there
is more to come. 

There are some other problems with the production. The notes are
limited to a short biography of the singer and say nothing about the
repertoire or the recordings themselves. There are no texts, which is
less problematic here, considering the familiarity of most of the
music, but who knows the words to the "Berceuse"? Finally, the
recording engineers had the dumb idea of adding what sounds like fake
stereo to some of the earlier recordings; heard on headphones, this
leads to a dizzying ping-pong effect which will certainly drive you nuts
before the first track has finished. Otherwise, the transfers are pretty
good, but a Keith Hardwick production this ain't! 

Still, if you can get around these problems, this disc is supremely
enjoyable candy for the ear and for the soul. Like other sweets, it may
provoke an allergic reaction in some listeners, and overeating to the
point of sickness in others, but it would be wrong to deny yourself a
little taste of heaven, at least now and then. 




--
****************************************   Raymond S. Tuttle
"Dunkel ist das Leben, ist der Tod,"       University of Rochester
but it's nothing to get depressed about!   (still with his two little 
****************************************   white mice).
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Recommendation for Requiem music is needed.
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 04:21:10 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.034626.18735@osf.org> dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks) writes:
>acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul21.011732.29960@lclark.edu> larryw@lclark.edu (Larry Westdahl) writes:
>>>The Berlioz Requiem is quite nifty, although I do not know of any specific
>>>recorgings. 
>>
>>seems okay, but nothing special.  Maybe the Davis is good.  (?)
>
>If you mean the 1970 recording, the performance is wonderful, but the sound
>quality is awful.  Davis was coming off a celebrated performance at the
>Proms.
>
>Still, it passes my own taste test: when the tubas hit the D-flat in the
>Tuba Mirum fanfare, you feel like you've been picked up by the hairs on
>the back of your neck.

Yep.  This has my vote.  The noises Shaw makes are thrilling on the 
right equipment, but the performance has no life.  Perhaps we'll
get a remake from Davis.

My favorite performance is Scherchen's on Adda, performed in the
original venue.  If you think the sound of the Davis is awful, wait
until you hear this!  But Scherchen was THE great Berliozian.  Never
mind that horrible men's chorus, squeally French brass, &c. &c.

A live Beecham Requiem is still available here in the US (Hunt), and
is definitely worth a listen.  I can't muster the enthusiasm some have
expressed for this performance.  It just doesn't seem to catch fire.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder)
Subject: Re: minimalism
Organization: Quake Public Access
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 22:27:52 GMT

Is Glass overrated?  That's like asking is smallpox is overrated. ;-)

--Brian

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Subject: Re: Question
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:40:45 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.170718.16445@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie) writes:
>Dammit. I had a very important and interesting question that I was going to
>pose here, but now I'm racking my brains and I can't remember what it was.
>I think it was something about music. Can anyone help?

The piece is Pachelbel's Canon in D Major, and you should get the 
Paillard recording.


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pieterh@sci.kun.nl (Peter Herweijer)
Subject: Re: What if...
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 12:43:57 GMT

>What if...
>...J.S. Bach were alive today?
>

But he *was*, half a century ago!
They called him Anton Webern and he wrote a tiny quantity of
the most concentrated and intense music since the Kunst der Fuge.

--
neither do I                                       pieterh@sci.kun.nl
From: weihmayer@gte.com (Robert Weihmayer)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Paul Dessau Operas
Date: 31 Jul 92 00:33:38 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Organization: GTE Laboratories Incorporated

About 15 years ago I heard a recording of Paul Dessau's
"Puntilla und sein knecht Matti". It was to me an incredible
opera. Does anyone know if this or other Dessau operas are
available? Dessau is (was) East German and unification 
must have created new opportunities to record or reissue his
works.
Any info is welcome.

Robert Weihmayer
GTE Laboratories Inc.
weihmayer@gte.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: erwin@helsinki.ks.uiuc.edu (Edgar Erwin)
Subject: Re: Question about "Carmina Burana"
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 01:38:55 GMT

Kuo-Yeang Tsai writes
> 
> Why does it (Carmina Burana) sound demoniac? 
> "Is this Satan-worshipping music?" 
>

Yes.  The text was written by satan-worshiping monks.  
Listen to it backwards and all will be revealed.

Ed erwin@lisboa.ks.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: colby@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Colby Leider)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Information Requested
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:26:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Applied Research Laboratories, University of Texas at Austin


Does anyone out there have any recommendations for buying a Dolby
Pro-Logic receiver for around $300-$400?  The reason I'm asking
this on this newsgroup is because suggestions in this area from people in
rec.audio sometimes are geared toward listening to "popular" music, and I
would like a good system to listen to primarily classical.

If anyone has a receiver they really like in this price range, please e-mail
me with your suggestions.

Thanks.

Colby Leider
colby@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu
Austin, Texas
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie)
Subject: Re: Ein Deutsches Requiem (was Re: Christa Ludwig)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 23:41:11 GMT


What is Sinopoli's verion like. There is a nice 3cd set containing all (?)
the choral music. What the perfornamce like, anyone?


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: martin@mathematik.uni-ulm.de (Martin Hasch)
Subject: Re: Composition
Organization: University of Ulm, SAI, Germany
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 18:43:08 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.204019.13093@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu>, colby@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Colby Leider) asks:

> Are there any composers out there on the net?

I am pretty sure there are. In the sense, "doing their own little
pieces from time to time preferably when no experts are around
listening", at least.  The real question, however, is: Does that
make them composers in the sense the questioner presumably thought of?

Therefore i would suggest a distinction between _composing persons_
and _composers_, with only especially talented, skilled and laborious
people qualifying for the latter.

Not that i would want to judge any of such qualities, though.  I prefer
a discussion on the very product much to the musician's abilities or
intentions in general.  And to that i prefer live experience with that
language of the unspeakable vibrations of the soul (pardon the
expression), music - as in listening to, performing (which requires
listening the more), and yes, writing (which means still more, or
should i say, deeper listening).

Yours in the art of experiencing the silence
	Martin
	(composing person)
-- 
+----------------+------------------------------------------+----------------+
|  Martin Hasch  |  Internet: martin@mathematik.uni-ulm.de  |  (o ) /  (o )  |
+----------------+------------------------------------------+----------------+
From: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie)
Subject: Schumann Cello Concerto
Originator: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:27:22 GMT

I've just been listening to this work and, to me it doesn't sound much like
a romantic era concerto. The cello part is attractive but the orchestration
is thin to non-existent. Maybe it should have been called a romance or
serenade or something?
From: mikulska@astro.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Ravel
Summary: Prix de Rome
Date: 31 Jul 92 05:06:24 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU

In article <1992Jul20.164258.15753@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie) writes:
>
>I saw in the store a cd containing 2 cantatas by Ravel. Can't remember the
>exact names - both started with A (Alcyone??). Anyway, I've never heard of
>these works before. Were they early compositions? Does anyone know anything
>about them?

These are two of three cantatas which Ravel submitted in three
consecutive years as attempts to obtain the Prix de Rome - an award
granted surprisingly often to composers whose names immediately fell
into total oblivion.  He tried four times (1900-1903), and failed each 
time.

The three cantatas are:
	1901: Myrrha
	1902: Alcyone
	1903: Alyssa
all three for 3 solo voices and orchestra, according to the requirements
of the award.  (I don't think he actually finished a cantata in 1900 -
he was disqualified early in the race.)  I haven't seen any recording of
"Myrrha", btw. - the CD you saw contains only the two later cantatas.

Considering that Ravel was born in 1875, these are fairly early works,
although by 1903 he had already written "Pavane pour une infante
defunte", "Jeux d'eaux", String Qrt., "Sheherazade", and a few songs -
works which are still being played, and quite often.

-Margaret
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Met's Semiramide
From: Ken Sherrill <KSSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Monday, 27 Jul 1992 16:30:48 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

The final three performances of Semiramide at the Met will be with Lella Cuber-
li, Marylin Horne, Stanford Olsen, and Simone Alaimo. The broadcast is one of
three performances. The first six are with a mystery soprano, Gloria Scalchi,
Frank Lopardo and Barseg Tumanyen. Ramey is scheduled for none of the perform-
ances. After all these years, I was beginning to think that Ramey and Joseph
Rouleau were the only two bassos who knew the part. Apparently Jan-Hendrik Root
ering will be on the recording with Cheryl Studer. I expect Studer will be the
great Semiramide of our time, but I doubt that she'll be doing the part in New
York this year.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: olin@cheme.tn.cornell.edu (Steve Thompson)
Subject: Re: Mozart REQUIEM
Reply-To: olin@cheme.tn.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University School of Chemical Engineering
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:15:36 GMT

In article <JIM.92Jul22132804@fuji.eng.yale.edu>, jim@fuji.eng.yale.edu (James J. Szinger) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.160953.21552@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu>
>colby@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Colby Leider) writes:
>>Does anyone know of a good recording of this work?
>>Does Telarc have a recording with Shaw and the Atlanta S.O.?
>I have the Shaw/Atlanta CD of Mozart's Requiem, and IMHO it is
>not a very good recording.  Far too much of the time, all that
>can be heard are sopranos and the orchestral; the choral ATB are
>typically swamped in mud.  The Mariner/ASMF CD is much better.
>The different voices in the fugues can actually be heard.
>Jim

Yes, I agree. I have the Shaw also; it's veeerrry muddy; also quite a
low signal level. I nevertheless like the actual *performance*, although
I have friends who scream at what they think are too-slow tempi...

Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Thompson, System Mangler   Internet: thompson@cheme.tn.cornell.edu
School of Chemical Engineering   Bitnet:   thompson@crnlchme
Olin Hall, Cornell University    Phone:    (607) 255 5573
Ithaca NY 14853
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical