HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: krystek@alcor.bms.com (Stanley Krystek)
Subject: Re: Can boxing skills handle kicking ?
Organization: Bristol-Myers Squibb, Macromolecular Modeling
	<1992Aug31.142950.6242@linus.mitre.org> <3562@unisql.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 14:10:10 GMT


I have fought several amateur boxers when I was in college.  In fact my 
roommate was a good boxer.  I have found that the major differences between
boxers and martial artists is that boxers expect to be hit and will take 
amounts of punishment in order to deliver the same to the opponent.  The
philosophy in MA is the best defense is not to be hit (Karate Kid II).  
I was able to score initially at will, but after a few minutes and in the 
confines of a 20 x 20 mat, I found myself in even exchanges with my opponents.
And upon fighting a boxer the second time they addapted well to feet and 
often tried a kick to the shin (ouch) or thigh.  


WHen I have fought kickboxers they seem to lean towards the boxing side
for the most part.  The kicks are thrown to set up the closing in order
to get inside and do some damage with fists.  The one thing I did learn was
to not bother kicking to the face, both boxers and kickboxers efficiently
protect themselves (at least in the 20 minute fights we practice with).


I use kicks to the body in order to slow down the boxer or if you are able to
use kicks to the thighs, (I have slowed down a boxer by a side kick to the thigh)
give a "charlie horse" and then I was able to dominate by limiting his ability
to move away and switch balance.  I believe I was able to score the kick because
in MA we are aware of attempts to use sweeps and low kicks where a boxer has
to addapt to the "whole body" as a target.

All in all the individual skill of a person is the real tale of the tape.
I would not want to fight a "Ray Leonard" even with my MA ability given the
same size and weight advantages.  

stan

--
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Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: Re: Can boxing skills handle kicking ?
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 18:02:40 +0000



Graeme Bennett writes:
>Competitive karateka are often weak.  They train to spar and not to
>kill.  People who follow the way do not subject themselves to debasing
>events such as tournaments where the individual is only after fame or
>money.


Not so. There are many reasons for entering tournaments fame and money
are two of the negative reasons. Some of the positive reasons include
overcoming fears, motivation etc etc.


Competitions are only bad when they are used in a bad way. There are
many positive aspects to competition, they should not be neglected.


>I am absolutely appalled by 'Boxing Footwork' which is actually a good
>candidate for an oxymoron.  They seem to just randomly place their feet
>and appear to dance around as if they have glass up their arses.  They
>then make some form of stance and randomly fire punches in the air,
>occasionally hitting their target with an amount of power proportional
>to their muscular strength. These punches are easy to block by
>themselves, and when in rapid succession can be dodged or you can lean
>back and smash their ribcage with a kick.  In every boxing fight I have seen,
>there are long periods where either fighter has an opening that they do
>not take, but instead stand there panting and drooling.  They do not
>seem to understand the word 'strategy' which is the underlying principle
>of a true martial art.  They either attack or block punches with their
>faces.


Maybe in some cases but the proboxers who have good footwork are
very effective. Oxymoron - hardly.


>You cannot clinch in the real world.  When a boxer clinches with a martial
>artist (a good one) they are open to a multitude of attacks, to
>which they have no defence (except for, perhaps their thick skulls :)
>They are worse at close range.


Maybe not, but the skills learned in clinching can be very valuable
in close in fighting.


>Todd, you seem to be comparing sparring forms of martial-arts (probably
>karate, TKD) where target areas are limited, and only certain techniques
>can be used to boxing because of restrictive rules. You *cannot* compare
>boxing to a true martial art.  Boxers train always within the rules.
>Marital artist train without rules and restrict themselves in a
>competition.


When was the last time you fought with no rules? You may say no rules
however in training there are rules/gentlemens agreements not to kill
each other etc.


>It also depends very much on individuals. The perfect individual will be
>many times more lethal doing martial arts than doing boxing. There is no
>comparison.


True, it depends entirely on individuals, but you can't compare MA and
boxing, you are not comparing like with like. Boxing specialised in a
certain set of skills other MA's in other skills, all are valuable.


Bill Burgar.
From: bae@Auspex.COM (Brian Ehrmantraut)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Activist shot at Berkeley Chancellor's home
Date: 31 Aug 92 23:54:36 GMT

In article <082992131703dude@losers.hacktic.nl>, dude@losers.hacktic.nl writes:
>  Anyone with a machete can
>  kill, even if they're under 100 pounds. 
...
>  A person trained in 
>  a different way would have used the nightstick or the mace.

	I disagree - a person trained in the use of mace would not, unless 
there were no other options available, use mace when faced with the threat 
of lethal force.  It is not recommended for that sort of situation...

-- 
		Brian A. Ehrmantraut

BELL:   voice:(408) 492-0900  fax: (408) 492-0909  
USnail:	Auspex Systems, 2952 Bunker Hill Lane, Santa Clara, CA 95054  
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: monemi@eplrx7.es.duPont.com (Cameron Monemi)
Subject: Request for Info on MA schools in and around Wilmington DE and/or West Chester PA
Organization: DuPont Engineering Physics Laboratory
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 18:56:36 GMT

I`ve just moved to Newark DE and am interested in finding a good school/instructor to continue
training at/with. I`ve been to a couple of places and have called others, the problem is I 
haven't really liked what I've seen and/or heard. Specifically what I'm looking for is a 
school/instructor with a no nosense attitude and a physical training regimen which includes
occasional full contact sparring (with protective equipment of course), lots of physical 
conditioning: jumping rope, sit ups, push ups, weight training, etc..., bagwork. So far, I
haven`t found a single school that allows contact sparring (only point sparring) and they all
want long term commitments (contracts). 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks,

Cameron Monemi.

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan)
Subject: Re: kyokunshikai karate ???
Organization: ARINC Research
Date: 3 Sep 92 09:44:58
	<60047@mimsy.umd.edu>

   first class. I've also seen a film of a Kyokushinkai black belt going
   one on one with a black bear. (I think that's highly unethical, but it
   is impressive.)

	Actually, I've met a Kyokushin-Kai sensei who went at it with a muzzled
and declawed bear (he was young and drunk at the time...the human, not the
bear). Apparently, his best side-kick only managed to get the bear upset, and
he got batted around the ring ruthlessly by the bear afterwards.

   >I've never read an article claiming that Kyukushinkai is the toughest karate
   >style.

	I don't know about stating that it's "tougher" than other arts. It's
   definitely a very "hard" art.
   --------
	Well...I'd say that it's a lot more painful than other arts :-)
--
	Stephen Chan
	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net
From: ljhr@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Penn State, UP. Clubs?
Date: 3 Sep 92 13:53:56 -0500

When I was at Penn State (about ten years ago) there was an Isshin-Ryu 
Karate Club on campus.  I'd call the Student Organizations Office at the
HUB (Hetzel Union Building to those of you unfortunate enough not to have
breated the scented air of Happy Valley) and ask for the club president or
faculty advisor.  There may be other clubs on campus now, too; the Isshin-
Ryu club was the only one I was aware of back then. 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman)
Subject: Re: Seeking Feedback (was Re: Shotokan misconceptions)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 08:36:52 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <59937@mimsy.umd.edu> tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
|ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) writes:
|>
|>What I don't get is, how *can* you be emotional?  Do you think,
|>"OhmyGod!  I'm gonna' have to hurt this poor seven-foot-tall 250 lb.
|>motorcycle-gang-type who wants very much to kill me.  I've never
|>hurt anyone before.  My phaser only goes to 'maximum stun'."  May I
|>submit that by the time you've thought that you may be dead?
|
|     You ask how can one be emotional in such a situation. I ask, how
|can one _not_? There are going to be a lot of different emotions
|running through my head in such a situation. Fear that I may be hurt,
|fear that I might hurt another unnecessarily, anger, pity, sorrow...

I should think that the ideal state of mind on entering a fight would
involve no fear of being hurt and no regrets-in-advance of hurting the
other guy.  This isn't to say that I consider human lives of little
worth, but rather that by accepting the fight you have accepted the very
good possibility of being hurt or dying and a goal of damaging your
opponent.  Anger is a particularly useless atavistic emotion.  Pity and
sorrow can come later, if you're so inclined.

That said, I loudly disclaim that this is only what I understand to
be the ideal emotional state from talking to my seniors and t'inkin'
'bout this myself.  I only hope that if I must ever fight, that I will
be able to overcome my emotions.  I may never get a second chance.

|The trick is to not let that get in the way of seeing what has to be done,
|and doing it. There's a difference between being emotional and being
|ruled by emotion.

Or maybe we're saying the same thing.  Maybe this discussion is just a
Waste of Band Width!  Naw, too horrible to consider.

|===============================================================================
|Tom Swiss/tms@flubber.cs.umd.edu| "Born to die" | Keep your laws off my brain!

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  ftit@engin.umich.edu   |   "... a stainless steel rat in the       |
|    (Sergej Roytman)     |  ferroconcrete wainscoting of Internet"   |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Say no to four-line .sigs.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty)
Subject: Re: Styles in Bloodsport?
Originator: ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 23:19:15 GMT


natalies@hplsla.hp.com (Natalie Schuchard) says:



>Hi All,
>    Ok, so I finally rented Bloodsport, VanDamme's movie about
> Frank Duk and the Kumite.  I have a few qustions about the
>different styles portrayed in the movie.  In the end the
>liners state that Duk went on to teach Ninjitsu(sp?),

As far as I know it's a myth.  I guess Frank Dux did exist, but I'd
be hesitant to say he knew any ninpo.

> What style does Bolo Yeung practice

None.  According to an interview, everything he knows is stuff
he picked up from Movie fighting.  Before movies, he was just
an avid bodybuilder.

>and what style imitates a monkey fliping around the ring?

The guy looked latin-afro-american, so I would assume it was
some hollywood version of Capoeria.  There are monkey styles
of Kung Fu, but I don't think they would go so far as to jump up
and down scratching your head like a monkey like was in the film. :)

>   I could identify the
>two Fung fu stylists,  but was there actually an Akidoka
>wearing hakima fighting in the quick fight sceans?

Missed that one.  Can't remember him.

>Was the big guy wearing a loin cloth supposed to be a sumo
>wrestler or is this a Somaian art?

Looked like a Sumo to me.
 


Marty

Do
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Can boxing skills handle kicking?
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:27:21 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Sep1.043055.12413@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cpgrb@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Graeme Bennett) writes:
>The 'hook' punch for example loses a lot of power and is easy to block.
>Also, 'jabs' are quick and difficult to counter, but lack power and are
>really only diversionary.

	Some boxer's jabs are more powerful than your right cross.  And
a hook is a very powerful punch that is NOT easy to block because of the
path it takes.

> A flurry of punches can be dodged by moving out of arm's length

	You won't be able to move away from a good boxer that easily.  That's
what all that footwork is about.

>Close in, a boxer attempts to clinch or tries uppercuts.  

	Or hooks, or body blows.
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Can boxing skills handle kicking?
Date: 2 Sep 92 00:36:35 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:
>
>Or Rabbit punches you after forcing you head down. Or (Mike Tyson's
>favorite trick) headbutts you. Or kidney punch. 

     I've often heard this term, but never knew what it meant. What the
sam heck is a "rabbit" punch, anyway?

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@flubber.cs.umd.edu| "Born to die" | Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
          This is a .signature antibody. Vaccinate your .sig!
     "I can identify with steelworkers. I can identify with workers that
      have had a difficult time."
      -- Vice President Dan Quayle addressing 
         workers at an Ohio steel plant,1988
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Moving during kicking
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:33:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.Bu2Jo5.L79
Organization: Indiana University

In article <3608@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>In article <Bu0usM.314@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:
>>What about jump kicks as you retreat?  A reverse jump front kick
>>flows pretty nicely as you are moving backwards.
>
>	I just don't understand how you can generate power in a strike
>if your body is moving away from the target...  Doesn't the power come 
>from putting your hips into a strike?  If oyur hips are going in some other
>direction how can you do that?

In a reverse jump kick, you jump up and kick with your back leg.  When
you are retreating this means that instead of stepping back with
your lead leg, you actually jump back and drive the other leg forward
at the advancing opponent.  There's plenty of torque generated by the
hips using this move, at least with a front kick.  And although I'm
not good enough at it yet, I've seen people do the same thing with a
spinning jump side thrust kick (jump back side kick to some people;
jumping dui yup chagi to others), which is an even stronger kick.

Dakin
burdick@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Stretching Exercises
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:04:55 GMT
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: gints@roadkill.esd.sgi.com's message of 1 Sep 92 18:53:44 GMT


In article <1992Sep1.185344.16925@odin.corp.sgi.com> gints@roadkill.esd.sgi.com (Gints Klimanis) writes:

   I purchased Thomas Kurz's Flexibility Training Method, advertised in
   Black Belt with him side-splitting on two chairs, mounted by a babe. 
   Basically, he combines a 5 minute cardiovascular run/jump rope with
   dynamic stretches.  After months of silly static stretching, this method
   gives me a superior stretch in 15 minutes, including the run.  He also
   outlines workouts for isometric stretching - stretching and contracting
   the same muscle to increase flexibility.  

You need to be careful with dynamic or ballistic stretching, however.  
A lotta folks believe that it's pretty easy to injure yourself with 
this kind of stretching if you do it improperly (e.g., without warming
up FIRST).  Static stretching has a pretty low risk of injury, but 
it also doesn't seem to do as much for your flexibility.  My personal
favorite is isometric stretching.


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: kckbxr@next12pg2.wam.umd.edu (Robin Hood)
Subject: Re: Bush Black belt??!!!
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:27:32 GMT

>> Anyway, he's dead and I never really liked his music.  Robert Smith
> deserves to be elevated to 8th dan more than he did :-)

Whoa, time out!  Where have you been?  Elvis isn't dead!  He's still  
alive!  I saw him the other day.  He was on campus taking summer classes.

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: "Michael Chui" <mchui@spinner.cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Looking for the FTP Aikido dojo listing
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 12:22:22 -0500

	Bob's (the maintainer of The List(tm)) new e-mail address is

truel@moose.cs.indiana.edu

Currently, the list is only available on 129.79.254.192.  iuvax.cs.indiana.edu
has now become moose.cs.indiana.edu.  Hopefully the list will soon be available
on moose in the directory /pub/aikido.

Michael Chui
mchui@cs.indiana.edu
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Can boxing skills handle kicking ?
Date: 31 Aug 92 19:55:48 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Aug31.142950.6242@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
>there was something about a foot zipping at his face that seemed to keep
>him back.

	Why should a foot be any different than a hand ?  It'll either come
straight in like a long slow jab, from the side like a hook or roundhouse (
the boxing kind), or up from below like a funny uppercut.  


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: rescue13@cbnews.cb.att.com (cynthia.a.collins)
Subject: Getsumei No Nichi
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:11:09 GMT
Followup-To: Getsumei No Michi
Summary: Getsumei No Michi, The Moonlit Path

In some arcane Japanese disciplines Getsumei No Michi,
to put into Western terms means "An enlarged sixth sense."
It combines sensativity training with awareness.  For
martial artists its one step beyond the mind-no mind discipline
we all strive for.  When you begin martial arts training, as
with any martial art, you no doubt begin to feel differently 
and see things differently.  Your senses tell you things about
your opponent you otherwise would not have known (i.e. their
intent to kill, not to kill; which discipline-art they are
using.)  You can pick up on the slightest telegraph your
opponent gives off.  If they are going to kick, fake, 
sweep or etc.  That is Getsumei No Michi.  BTW, Getsumei
means moonlight, Steve G. had it right "I'm impressed".  
Michi means path, can also mean the way or duty, also a
journey.

Nikko


"Anybody who doesn't want to get killed, just clear
 on out the back!"
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552)
Subject: Re: The Martial Arts Genie
Organization: just me
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 92 13:25:42 GMT
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts

In article <1992Sep3.044439.16665@psych.psy.uq.oz.au> jonathan@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Jonathan Dwyer) writes:
>Corey writes:
>|> wharfie writes:
>|> >
>|> >	If the Genie of the Martial Arts appeared before me, and informed
>|> >me that I'd won the Martial Arts Digest Sweepestakes, and 1st prize was
>|> >my choice of 1/2 dozen OK kicking techniques or one hell of a left hook,
>|> >*I'd* take the left hook...
>|> >
>|> Yeah, but what if the Genie offered you an OK left hook or one hell of
>|> a kicking technique?  :)
>
>Nah, all the Genie ever offered me was a pile of OK Greenoch techniques.  These
>are all little known and more than a little unusual.  Here is a comprehensive list:

Hmmm...Looks like Jonathan got cut off by line noise or something.  No problem.
I've got the Greenoch technique list here somewhere.  I'll append it to this
as soon as I see what is making that noise at the window.

o60i;jnoonjKJHL89OO8

OH I GUESS I LOST THE LIST LOOKS LIKE I CANT FIND IT NOW.  ANYWAY THERE IS
NO SUCH THING AS GREENOCH SO DONT BOTHER TO LOOK FOR IT.  SORRY FOR THE
MISTAKE.
	CUCHUL^H^H^H^H^H^HDAVID
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Test
Date: 4 Sep 92 20:54:40 GMT
Organization: Twilight Zone

In article <1992Sep03.210228.20224@rchland.ibm.com> chance@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (R Chance) writes:
>
>-- 
>\begindata{text,537438720}

	[bite...]

>}Quality Technology, CM/VC  
>
>}\enddata{text,537438720}

	NICE POST!

	-Andy V.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts