HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Summary: Jack Sprat
Organization: :
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 02:15:38 GMT

In article <BxpwnM.72o@chinet.chi.il.us>, les@chinet.chi.il.us (Leslie Mikesell) writes:
> In article <1992Nov12.221405.7594@mole-end.matawan.nj.us> mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us writes:
 
> >I disagree on this one.  I can't stand the SVr4 mail program's unwillingness
> >to display a file in which someone has accidentally put ONE backspace or
> >escape.  And of course there are nroff output files with
> >  _^hu_^hn_^hd_^he_^hr_^hl_^hi_^hn_^h_^he  in them.
 
> I meant the transport does the right thing in delivering the message as
> sent.  I didn't think anyone actually used SysV mail's user interface
> (or lack thereof).
 
> >This user says `Plugh!'
 
> Do yourself a favor and compile ELM.

This user says `bletch!'  I've got ELM.  It threw away a valuable piece of
mail on me because the mail included another mail header.  Right now I have
a non-elm mailbox with a message in it that ELM will present out of order.
ELM's handling of the cursor keys is just plain wrong. ... ... ...

What?  It's just fine for you and you haven't noticed any problems?

	Jack Sprat could eat no fat
	And his wife could eat no lean ...

My favorite way to deal with mail is to go into vi, create a mail command
with a here document filled with blank lines and ending in `x', and 1G!Gksh
the whole thing.  It subjects me to the fewest bogons of anything I've got.
(Oh, you don't like vi?  Fine with me.  I'll put emacs up for you ... but
don't pepper our source files with emacs directives or leave incomplete
lines.  Speaking of which, why does emacs display a line number for the
next line when you are at the end and there isn't any next line?  Bogus.)

And _that_, perhaps, is the grace of UNIX over VMS and OS/2 and Motif
and all those other highly-polished, highly developed straitjackets.

	There are four ways to do any task: the Right Way, the Wrong
	Way, the Navy Way, and My Way.  And this, gentlemen, is my ship.
-- 
 (This man's opinions are his own.)
 From mole-end				Mark Terribile

 mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us, Somewhere in Matawan, NJ
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From: "The Moderator (Mike Muuss)" <Unix-Wizards-Request@BRL.MIL>
Subject:      UNIX-WIZARDS Digest  V16#003
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UNIX-WIZARDS Digest          Tue, 08 Sep 1992              V16#003

Today's Topics:
                    Reducing "reserved" swap space?
              Any books on Lightweight processes on Unix?.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

From: David Kaelbling <drk@twinkie.rational.com>
Subject: Reducing "reserved" swap space?
Keywords: SunOS, shared libraries, swap
Date: 7 Sep 92 17:44:23 GMT
Followup-To: poster
To:       unix-wizards@sem.brl.mil


Can anybody explain what exactly determines the "reserved" swap space
allocated by a program, and how I can reduce this number?

I have a large application (running on Sun-4's under SunOS 4.1.x), and
want to have several copies of the application running concurrently.
Currently the swap space requirements are a major obstacle.  According
to "pstat -s" each copy of the application allocates 1.5Mb of swap and
reserves 9.4Mb.  Purify reports that the heap is around 3.5 Mb.  To
the untrained eye it appears that swap space is reserved for the
entire text segment (size reports 6430kb text, 876kb data, 29kb bss),
but never used.  How can I eliminate or amortize this waste?
From: peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Date: 14 Nov 92 15:20:13 GMT
Organization: Global Village 1

arnej@kari.fm.unit.no (Arne Henrik Juul) writes:

>I can imagine it will be impossible to make this mistake in
>Windows/NT, but I fully expect that it will be impossible to
>concatenate two files in Windows/NT too.

That's nonsense, even DOS can do that:

  COPY /B FILE.1+FILE.2+FILE.3 FILE.ALL

It's ugly, but it works anyway.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.misc
From: mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:25:17 GMT
Organization: McGill Research Centre for Intelligent Machines

In article <1992Nov14.151318.1376@global.hacktic.nl>, peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser) writes:
> acourtny@unix1.tcd.ie (Antony A. Courtney) writes:

>> and structural elegance of that other system once called UNIX.
> That's a good point!  For instance, instead of using the creat()
> system call, which creates a file with given permissions, they added
> a parameter open() to duplicate the functionality of creat().

That's a point.  They should have had the guts to dump creat() when
they folded it into open().  (Or are you saying they shouldn't have
extended open?  Would you prefer to have a separate syscall for each
permutation of flag bits in the second argument to current open()?)

					der Mouse

			    mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu
From: bandy@netnews.jhuapl.edu (Mike Bandy)
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Organization: JHU/Applied Physics Laboratory
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:32:11 GMT

mike@nttor.uucp (Mike Hollander) writes:

>In article <1992Nov9.172715.16367@cs.wisc.edu> so@brownie.cs.wisc.edu (Bryan S. So) writes:
>>
>>I am doing research on UNIX command line interface problems.
>>I am sure everyone has his/her favorite UNIX troubles, would
>>you post or email me what's your favorites?  What should have
>>been done by UNIX to resolve that problem in general?
>>

>Things that bother me about the command line (I'm using Motorola
>UNIX System V/68 Release 3.71 running a Korn shell using vi-type
>command line editing on a VT420), in no particular order:

>1) It is possible to backspace over the prompt.
>2) Running over past the end of the line onto the next line does not 
>   allow you to backspace back to the previous line, and if you     
>   backspace at the last column of a line it is possible to miss
>   a character and therefore not backspace over what you think
>   you are backspacing over.
>3) It doesn't seem possible to map the arrow keys on the keyboard
>   to enable you to press up arrow to get the previous command, or
>   to use left arrow to move backwards through the line.
>4) It doesn't seem possible to store macros that could be run with
>   a single keypress.
>5) The function keys don't do anything and cannot be made to do
>   anything on the command line.
>6) The insert and remove keys cannot be made to place you in insert
>   mode or remove characters.

>That's a short list off the top off my head. If anyone has methods
>to fix these complaints please feel free to respond!

Run VMS!  The VMS command line interpretor does all these things flawlessly.
Being an AC/DC kind of guy (WRT operating systems, that is) I can say that
the one thing I really miss when I use Unix is the command editing using the
arrow keys.  The Ultrix system I used at grad school allowed the command
to be recalled with the up/down keys, cursor positioned at the point
that needed changing via left/right arrows, etc.  Admitedly, I'm not a real
power user, but I have never been able to remember how to recall/edit past the 
previous using the "^" sequence.  And the fact that it does the edit, then
executes it, rather than waiting for a carriage return has always disturbed me.

I know I'm setting myself up to be flamed; bring it on.

>Mike Hollander | mike@nttor.UUCP
-- 

	Mike Bandy
	bandy@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu
	Johns Hopkins University / Applied Physics Lab
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
From: schles@whatever.cs.jhu.edu (The Skateboard Dude)
Subject: resident clock under vt100?
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:04:37 GMT

Hi.  In our library here at JHU, we have vt100 terminals connected to the
campus network.  One time while I was working on homework, I realized I didn't
have my watch on.  So I logged into my CS account and used the 'date' command
to keep me informed about the time.

The problem was I was constantly typing in 'date' to check the time.  Is there
a command or program similar to TSR's on IBM's which could constantly keep me
informed of the time and/or have an alarm that could ring the default beep at
a specific time?  It doesn't even need to be resident, I just want something
that would run until I pressed ctrl-c or logged out.

Thanks in advance - Phil
-- 
Philip Schlesinger                         schles@cs.jhu.edu
------------------------------------------------------------
"How'd you get that Cray II to run slower than my old C-64?"
"Oh, that took a bit of doing.  Take a look at /bin/session"
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.misc
From: mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse)
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Organization: McGill Research Centre for Intelligent Machines
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 11:06:09 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.234721.3224@nic.csu.net>, oleg@gd. (Oleg Kibirev) writes:

> Seriously, I would really appreciate a call like eprintf that accepts
> the same arguments as printf but also has staff like %n for program
> name, %m for message, %p for callers PID etc.

All of these are available:

%s	argv[0],
%s	((errno>0)&&(errno<sys_nerr))?sys_errlist[errno]:"Unknown error"
%d	getpid()

Given the ugliness (and incompleteness - it should include the error
number in the "unknown error" clause) of the second one, I hacked on
printf to add a %m spec, which takes an errno and generates the
corresponding message.  Makes printing error messages ever so much
easier to write...

	fprintf(stderr,"%s: can't open %s: %m\n",argvec[0],fn,errno);

Of course, this helps only when errno contains something useful.  Far
too many things don't do this - fopen, for example, does not have
anything to do with errno as any part of its contract....

					der Mouse

			    mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.misc
From: jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz)
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Organization: Mount Holyoke College
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:10:25 GMT

In article <EEIDE.92Nov12120339@asylum.cs.utah.edu> eeide%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Eric Eide) writes:
>I know of somebody who is doing research in this direction: me.  As part of my
>Masters degree I am modifying the C shell to be more tolerant of errors, both
>errors in syntax (e.g., typos) and semantics (e.g., inappropriate command line
>arguments).  My new shell keeps track of the user's command history in order to
>make accurate corrections.

Without wanting to make a judgement about the viability of the basic
research underlying such a project, why are you starting with the C
shell?  If I wanted to create a user-interface that could deal with
errors and ambiguities introduced by the user I would first make sure
that the software itself isn't full of errors and ambiguities... i.e.,
I sure as hell wouldn't use the C shell.
--
Jurgen Botz                  |   Internet: JBotz@mtholyoke.edu
Academic Systems Consultant  |     Bitnet: JBotz@mhc.bitnet
Mount Holyoke College        |      Voice: (US) 413-538-2375 (daytime)
South Hadley, MA, USA        | Snail Mail: J. Botz, 01075-0629
From: urlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias Urlichs)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
Subject: Re: Detecting if running under chroot
Date: 16 Nov 1992 18:23:47 +0100
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, FRG
NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1

In comp.unix.wizards, article <5076@prcrs.prc.com>,
  paul@prcrs.prc.com (Paul Hite) writes:
> 
> Well I've played around some public access bbs systems that thew me into a
> chroot env.  From a practical standpoint, I quickly noticed how little I could
> do.  It just had the "feel" of a chroot environment.  But I guess that you're
> looking for a more formal method.  I would examine the inode of the root.  I
> think something like "ls -id /" should do it.  But I still say that most
> chroot'd environments that I have seen don't really need much effort to
> detect.
> 
Doesn't work if the chrooted environment resides on the root of another file
system.

I'd say that any way to detect a chrooted environment from first principles,
i.e. other than finding a local news server but no newsspool, is declared
a bug in the OS.

-- 
What if everything is an illusion and nothing exists?  In that case, I
definitely overpaid for my carpet.
		-- Woody Allen, "Without Feathers"
-- 
Matthias Urlichs  --  urlichs@smurf.sub.org -- urlichs@smurf.ira.uka.de   /(o\
Humboldtstrasse 7 -- 7500 Karlsruhe 1 -- Germany  --  +49-721-9612521     \o)/
Xref: sparky comp.unix.wizards:4844 alt.folklore.computers:16611
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UNIX-WIZARDS Digest          Tue, 08 Sep 1992              V16#003

Today's Topics:
                    Reducing "reserved" swap space?
              Any books on Lightweight processes on Unix?.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

From: David Kaelbling <drk@twinkie.rational.com>
Subject: Reducing "reserved" swap space?
Keywords: SunOS, shared libraries, swap
Date: 7 Sep 92 17:44:23 GMT
Followup-To: poster
To:       unix-wizards@sem.brl.mil


Can anybody explain what exactly determines the "reserved" swap space
allocated by a program, and how I can reduce this number?

I have a large application (running on Sun-4's under SunOS 4.1.x), and
want to have several copies of the application running concurrently.
Currently the swap space requirements are a major obstacle.  According
to "pstat -s" each copy of the application allocates 1.5Mb of swap and
reserves 9.4Mb.  Purify reports that the heap is around 3.5 Mb.  To
the untrained eye it appears that swap space is reserved for the
entire text segment (size reports 6430kb text, 876kb data, 29kb bss),
but never used.  How can I eliminate or amortize this waste?
From: ddv@unix.brighton.ac.uk (Domenico De Vitto)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
Subject: Thanks,
Date: 16 Nov 92 08:57:27 GMT
Organization: University of Brighton, UK

Thanks to all who explained to me what RTFRFC means,
most were highly abusive and couldn,t F*CKING well see that I'm not 'on' the
internet, from my address, and I only have news access across JANet, but
if anyone wants a list of unix biggots, mail me.

'wizzard' is a _relative_ term, and most at my uni (BSc comp sci) agree, I
need not prove it to you lot!

I did think that this group (that I've been reading for 2 years) had settled
down and didn't have any 'children' actively reading it, I was wrong (sadly).

Dom De Vitto

Dom De Vitto
From: "Andrew Luck" <p00078@psilink.com>
Subject: Secondary Groups Failure Intermittent
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 11:48:19 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

Dear Friends,

I am having real difficulty with giving access to a variety of users
segemented into different groups to a number of partitions.

The general outline is:

SUN IPX running NFS/NIS and acting as server for PC/NFS
Users are having problems regardless of method of access
(PCNFS, telnet, direct), so PCNFS appears not to be relevant.

Partitioned into several areas for different groups
Partitions are:  /   /home  /usr    /struc   /trans    etc....
Some users (groups) need multi-partition access

Adding some users to secondary groups using the groups database works
Adding others to the groups database doesn't work
No particular pattern is apparent
We are getting desparate.

Can you please help out if you have run into this before?

A message from another system administrator follows:

--------------------
Andrew:

I am totally stopped on this problem.  Everything IS right ( to my
knowledge). We may have to go to the 'net for help (since we don't
have a mainteance contract ;-) ). The particulars are:

Extract of passwd file:

mgaines:<removed>:2005:1001:Mark Gaines:/home/gru5/mgaines:/bin/csh
jwhisner:<removed>:2012:1001:Jim Whisner:/home/gru5/jwhisner:/bin/csh

Extract of group file:

tranengr:*:1001:transmgr
trangrap:*:1002:pnaranjo,wegan,ksaunder,mgaines,ebennett,jwhisner,transmgr,rlewis,jprather,jsmith,fstrmbrg,awebster,kwalsh
structur:*:1003:transmgr

Output from "groups" commands:

mgaines : trangrap tranengr
jwhisner : trangrap tranengr

Directory Access Listing:
drwxrws--- 32 transmgr trangrap      1024  Oct 29 09:11  /trans

Access Allowed for:
pnaranjo wegan ksaunder ebennett jwhisner transmgr kwalsh

Access Denied for:
mgaines rlewis jprather jsmith fstrmbrg awebster

I have NO CLUE !!!
-------------------------

That's it.   Email or posts to this news group would be appreciated!

TIA  :)



Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.misc
From: chris@suite.sw.oz.au (Chris Maltby)
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date: 16 Nov 92 06:21:56 GMT

In <1992Nov10.170423.10311@nttor.uucp> mike@nttor.uucp (Mike Hollander) writes:

>Things that bother me about the command line (I'm using Motorola
>UNIX System V/68 Release 3.71 running a Korn shell using vi-type
>command line editing on a VT420), in no particular order:
>
[6 (what, only 6!) shortcomings of ksh-vi deleted]
>
>That's a short list off the top off my head. If anyone has methods
>to fix these complaints please feel free to respond!

I'd suggest that you do as was suggested by someone else in this thread.
First read "cat -v considered harmful" and then consider whether your shell
should contain a text editor, or whether your shell should co-operate with
your text editor to solve your problem.

ksh, bash, zsh whatever - it's part of why Rob Pike and Boyd Roberts are
making that sort of remark about UNIX. Underneath all that sludge is quite
a nice operating system...

For your information, you'll find that rc (and my shell too :-) copy what
you type into a history file. If you want to edit bits of that with sam,
vi or even EMACS, it just works. Simple, isn't it.
-- 
Chris Maltby - Softway Pty Ltd		Internet: chris@softway.sw.oz.au

PHONE:	+61-2-698-2322	"I'm waiting for X-Windows to become just that;
FAX:	+61-2-699-9174	 Ex-Windows" - A McGrath.
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From: MICHAEL BARBER <mrbarber@MTU.EDU>
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              92 3:15 pm
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Please unsubscribe me from this list.  I've tried the "correct" methods
but they don't seem to work.  Thank you.

-Michael Barber
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
From: mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse)
Subject: Re: Thanks,
Organization: McGill Research Centre for Intelligent Machines
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 10:56:10 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.085727.762@unix.brighton.ac.uk>, ddv@unix.brighton.ac.uk (Domenico De Vitto) writes:

> Thanks to all who explained to me what RTFRFC means, most were highly
> abusive and couldn,t F*CKING well see that I'm not 'on' the internet,
> from my address,

I certainly can't.  ddv@unix.brighton.ac.uk doesn't tell me whether
you're on the Internet or not.  unix.brighton.ac.uk does not seem to
have an A record, which may or may not mean anything, and most
certainly doesn't mean that *you* don't have Internet access.

					der Mouse

			    mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards
From: john@iastate.edu (John Hascall)
Subject: Re: The Problem with UNIX
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 16:34:39 GMT

michael@chpc.utexas.edu (Michael Lemke) writes:
}But there is one major difference to Unix (assuming VM/CMS works the
}same as VMS in this respect):  You made the abbreviations yourself (up
}to a point) so you get something *you* can remember.  So *you* can
}choose to type FORTRAN, FORTR, FORT or FOR depending on your mood today
}and don't have to memorize some meaningless character combination (can
}you pronounce - not spell - cp?).

Until somebody installs, say, "FORTH".

John
-- 
John Hascall                   ``An ill-chosen word is the fool's messenger.''
Systems Software Engineer
Project Vincent
Iowa State University Computation Center  +  Ames, IA  50011  +  515/294-9551
Newsgroups: comp.unix.wizards