HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ls1@cec1.wustl.edu (Lambros Skartsis)
Subject: Re: Pronunciation of Greek names in Homer's Odyssey
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:27:52 GMT

In article: <92Dec10.175910est.47506@neat.cs.toronto.edu>
ccc@cs.toronto.edu ("Christina C. Christara") writes:

>In article <1992Dec10.201012.28317@wuecl.wustl.edu> ls1@cec1.wustl.edu (Lambros Skartsis) writes:
>>Christina, whether the above is true or not, is still a matter of discussion.
>>I think that it was Erasmus who first claimed the above, as well as that
>>the today's "soft" greek consonents (ghamma, dhelta, etc.) were pronounced
>>as "hard" by the ancients (i.e., "g", "d", etc.) - and so the term
>>Erasmian pronounciation. I believe that this theory is very highly
>>disputed today.
>
>I received another message about this, and I think you are right.
>Indeed, I have heard that there is a dispute about the pronounciation
>proposed by Erasmus, and that many of his interpretations of the
>Greek sounds/letters/language are questioned.
>When I was in high-school I was taught the Erasmian interpretation
>and nothing else. I heard about the dispute later.

Actually, even this dispute became an emotional matter for the greeks.
If you really think about it, not only the language but the way it is
pronounced is a matter related to the national characteristics of a nation.
Imagine ancient greek pronounced the Erasmian way: with all these hard
consonents and the abundance of two-vowel sets (i.e., vowel followed by
vowel). The latter is something that we know very well that was
considered as quite bad-sounding to a anc.greek's ear ("hasmodia").
Actually the whole effect would be an almost .... dutch sounding - and
hence the accusation by many greeks that all these Erasmian theories 
so often adopted by germanic scholars were a part of the well-known
trend of association of ancient greek culture/arian theories/modern germanic
peoples. The greeks of course go to the other extreme and often preach that
hardly any basic change occured in accent. 
For the dipthong pronounciation argument (i.e., e.g. "oi"="i" or "o-i") I had
seen some time ago the following evidence against the Erasmian pronounciation
[the validity of the theory behind which , as I said earlier, I believe not 
to be that  popular any more(?)]: an Athenian
speaker is said to have confused his audience by the use of the word
"loimos" vs. "limos" (both, in modern greek would be pronounced as "leemos",
while they mean [in both anc. and modern greek] a desease and hunger,
respectively). For a confusion to have occured, it is argued, both words
should have been pronounced the same in ancient greek, as well. 
Anybody knows anything more?

Regards,
L. Skartsis



Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis)
Subject: Re: Did you know?
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:28:57 GMT

   Those are interesting facts, none of which I knew.

   I bet even many Greeks don't know that the famous Ali Pasha of
Jannina was not Turkish (though he had some distant Turkish ancestry)
but Albanian.  He spoke fluent Greek and Albanian, but only basic
Turkish.  I think I remember reading that he also presented himself as
either a Moslem or Christian, depending on political expediency.
From: pef@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Panayotis Fouliras; TA PhD)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Jan Morris on Greece
Date: 20 Dec 92 16:22:40 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London

And then what? Do we have to keep on on a watch for not hurting
the feelings of every single person on this planet, when the
feelings of the Greek people are not taken into consideration?

Or is it another "typing mistake" by the same person whose
postings/arguments mysteriously happen to coincide remarkably
with the anouncements of the so called "Macedonian World
Congress"?

Yawn... and merry Crhistmas to all (Skopians included).

Panayotis
--
UUCP:      pef@qmw-dcs.uucp  | Computer Science Dept    | "H Rwmania
Internet:  pef@dcs.qmw.ac.uk | QMW University of London |  kai an
JANET:     pef@uk.ac.qmw.dcs | Mile End Road            |  eperasen,
Voice:     +44 71 975 5220   | London E1 4NS            |  anthei kai
FAX:       +44 81 980 6533   |                          |  ferei kai
Cellphone: Too expensive to fit                            allon"
From: lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: MAKEDONIA - What's in a name (3/5)
Date: 17 Dec 92 20:23:50 GMT
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <1992Dec13.143014.9245@enea.se> sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
>Hariklia Delta (deltah@ccs.northeastern.edu) writes:
>>My point exactly! Since "Macedonia", "Macedonian" and "Macedonians"
>>(in the sense you are giving to these words of course), as you just
>>admitted, have absolutely nothing to do with the corresponding ancient
>>ones, then why should this new state called "Macedonia"?
>
>Here you are mistaken. The languages are unrelated but not the geo-
>graphical areas.

During Byzantium (not sure but think it was the 5th - 8th century?), there
was also another area called Macedonia - the region around the border of
Turkey and Greece nowadyas (roughly). So even the area is not "absolute".
During later Bulgarian, Serbian and Ottoman rule (not the last 2 centuries)
that name (i.e. Macedonia - for the region we know today) was not in use.

>Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se

Luben
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: lam@popeye.comm.mot.com (Dan Lam)
Subject: Re: Asian cliques. Why?
Organization: Land Mobile Products Sector, Motorola INC.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:09:01 GMT
Keywords: Asian-Americans

Well I join an all Asian lunch group about 4 times a month.  This is the
so called Asian clique that I can think of in my social circles.  the
group consists mainly of Vietnamese, Mandarin and Cantonese speaking
professionals here at work.  Occasianally people bring their associates
from oversea (HK and Taiwan Motorola personel) to join us.  So the
question is why and here are some of the reasons I can think of:

1.  This is a good way for me to keep up with my language abilities.
Especially Mandarin which I hardly have a chance to speak.  I am very
proud of my being able to speak all these different languages and I do
not sense any problem from my co-workers.  In fact my boss is very
suportive of me.  He (Caucasan) would sometime brings stuffs in Japanese
(like company sales ads, Japanese cellular toys, NASA tourist guide etc)
for me to keep/look at/read (except I need to study more Jpanese).

2.  I see some Caucasan Americans here would sometime eat lunch with a
bunch of Japanese and speaking Japanese in company cafeteria.  Well I am
too an American so what is wrong with me eating with a bunch of Asians?

3.  I find it easy to relate to these AA friends for there are certain
issues that are unique AA that is dificult to discuss with my non-AA
friends/co-worker etc.  My workout partner (white) sometime can't get
the distiction between Chinese and Vietnamese straight.  For example I
once told him that my dad is Chinese-ge and he later asked me if I can
pick up Vietnamese newspapers for him to read at home (he is retired).

4.  The AA in the "clique" are nice (some 2nd, mostly 1st gen) and why
would I not hang around with them just because we will be so vissible. 
We are a beautiful group and we don't mind being vissible.  (Ok guys the
AAFs in the group do look better.  I am not a sexist here.  I sometime
wear my Levi 550 to work  and I am the slob in the group ... ).

5.  S.C.A.A is an eletronic "Asian clique" itself so why are we all
reading/posting here?

well my .02

dan
--
|       Daniel Lam  danl@comm.mot.com  Chicago, Il, USA        |  
|         ....  Volleyball, Rollerblade, Windsurf ....         |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: The Clinton Cabinet
Date: 11 Dec 1992 19:52:59 GMT
Organization: Dept of Mathematics, Texas A&M University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: math.tamu.edu
Originator: achin@math

What do you bet that when President-elect Clinton gets through with
making his Cabinet "look like America," there will be African-Americans
and Hispanics, but no Asian-Americans in it?
-- 
Andrew Chin    Dept. of Math.    Texas A&M U.    College Station, TX 77843
achin@math.tamu.edu   Probably not TAMU's exact opinions.   (409) 845-0261
                * Fighting racism is not a special interest *
From: mafu@ocf.berkeley.edu (Mark Fujimoto)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian-male, nerd, geek, etc.
Date: 11 Dec 1992 23:16:16 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: monsoon.berkeley.edu

In article <1gb6rmINNku2@agate.berkeley.edu> wltsai@ocf.berkeley.edu (Wei-Lun Tsai) writes:
>
>(For those who took Japanese 101 in college:)
>Watashi wa CLUE ga arimasen!

Shouldn't that be CRUE?



If you can't laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at?  ;)




>-> Robin Williams sez: "What's sex going to be like in the 1990's?
>   It's going to be you--and you."

And don't you guys forget it....
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: brymastr@eng.umd.edu (Bryan Lee)
Subject: Don't like blacks? (was Re: ... attractive? (was Re: OFWM))
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 23:07:41 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of MD, College Park

In article <Bz3vsB.r@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> cogsdell@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
 (tony c) writes:
>In article <berthiau.724015487@iros1> you write:
>>As for my parents, they don't mind us girls dating Caucasian 
>
>>men as long as we don't date African-American men (don't ask me
>                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>why) and that my brother find himself a nice Chinese girl.  Of
>
>Could this have somthing to do with (RACEism) in America?
>
>...Because black men were slaves to white men?
>
>...Because black men have less opportunites to obtain wealth in Amerikkka? 

Because they are judging your (the first poster) potential dates
solely on the basis of skin color, and Asian skin is closer to
Caucasian skin than African in color.  This is probably THE most
artificial way to judge someone.  Actually, you should ask your
parents why they don't want you dating African-American men and
then argue against whatever bogus reasons they come up with.
-Bryan Lee
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu>
Subject: An apology (and more!!), was Re: One WM ...
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 04:02:07 EST
Organization: University of Michigan, Aerospace Engineering
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A75309B1BD01C4FC@sprl-mac2016.sprl.umich.edu>
X-Xxdate: Tue, 15 Dec 92 10:04:01 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.013654.3041@ttinews.tti.com> too cold,
andrew@ice.TTI.COM writes:
>First of all, I think that was pretty insensitive of you to write
>that joke.  If you wanted to direct it to him you should have written,
>"What happens when you unzip the pants of shchen..."  I think that
>insensitivity is exactly what irritates some of us AAs.  

I apologize.

>This brashness,
>this feeling that we have no right to think in a way that may not
>benefit the majority (the whites).
>

Ahh, but you got me wrong there.  It is my sincerest conviction that you can
think, feel, say what you want.  But, if I don't like it, I also have the right
to say what I feel.  Yes, I openly criticize people, but I make no attempts from
preventing them from criticizing me (that does mean I'll comply with them).

And, if you want to see some good in this whole process of open (and sometimes
emotional) debate, if both (or all) sides are truly listening to each other,
they will start to understand each other and all will be the better for it.

So, don't take my posts as a "evil White male trying to suppress and change
the minorty's thoughts,"  but rather as how I, Michael F. Kamprath, feel on
the subject.

======================================================================
|Michael F. Kamprath                   | The University of Michigan  |
|  kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu |      Aerospace Engineering  |
|  kamprath@engin.umich.edu            |      Graduate Student       |
======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: g9utxu@fnma.COM (Tanin Uthanayanaka)
Subject: Re: Inter-racial dating
Reply-To: g9utxu@fnma.COM
Organization: Fannie Mae
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 14:28:12 GMT

In article 1gbblpINN11a@cat.cis.Brown.EDU, ST701852@brownvm.brown.edu (Carole E. Mah) writes:
>This is another test posting. The first one did not go through.
>
>I am another lurking AAF. Since ppl asked for input from
>AAF, the question being, whom do you date, and why -- here goes.
>
>Several ppl have made the point that saying "i don't care if he
>is green" is a cop-out, and that they would rather have ppl
>be honest and admit their racism, self-hatred, etc. I agree!
>However, I think there are OTHER factors. For instance.
>  I've only dated one asian man. I DID find him attractive,
>and partly it WAS because of his race. But I have also dated
>causcasian men, mostly Jewish, god knows why.  I've also dated
>a Hispanic woman. I've also dated several caucasian women.
>Race HAS played a part in why I dated these people....
>BUT as to why I dated THEM and DIDNT date others.
>  There is one factor people havent acknowledged very much, and that
>factor is CLASS. yes, there is such a thing in this country!
>  One Asian guy asked me out once but I couldn't imagine going
>out with him because he was everything I am not, in terms of
>class.  He is from a recently immigrated from Taiwan family,
>part of the upper-upper middle class on the west coast,
>and also very into the "I want to join Corporate America"
>attitude that infects so many ivy league schools.
>  Similarly, one Caucasian guy I dated for a while also
>could not understand why I never had time to go places
>EVERY weekend with him -- he didnt understand how
>impt. it was to WORK. He isn't going to have to pay
>loans back for the next decade.
>  Similarly, one Caucasian woman I dated. She got
>handouts from her father and never did a snitch of work
>in her life and always insisted we eat out at
>restaurants and that we split the cost. yeah, right.
>  Now I am seeing a very wonderful caucasian woman
>who works a zillion hours to pay her way through grad
>school, and who, like me, grew up in a lower-lower-middle
>class family in the midwest.
>   I am not saying that class is more impt. than other
>factors. Only that ppl should also take it into account.
>Carole
>---------------------------------
>carole elaine mah
>st701852@brownvm.bitnet
>st701852@brownvm.brown.edu
>Carole_Mah@brown.edu
>---------------------------------

Please do not take this post offensively but I'm just curious about your gender.
You seem to be dating both gender ??? For instant, "I've only dated one asian man. 
I've also dated a Hispanic woman. Similarly, one Caucasian guy I dated...Similarly, 
one Caucasian woman I dated..." It may be my ignorance for the abbreviations of 
"ppl" that is causing this curiosity.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: lam@popeye.comm.mot.com (Dan Lam)
Subject: Re: Inter-racial dating
Organization: Land Mobile Products Sector, Motorola INC.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:21:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.151924.6804@almserv.uucp> g9utxu@fnma.COM writes:
>In article 25150@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com, lam@popeye.comm.mot.com (Dan Lam) writes:
>>
>>  [bisexual stuffs deleted]
>
>I must say you got guts. I myself never thought about anything other than the 
>opposite sex when in comes to relations (sexual and/or emotional). You know that 
>by having thoughts about homosexuality/bisexuality you could easily become one. I'm 
>not saying it is bad nor good. I'm just saying that such a move can change your whole 
>perspective on life (having gay friends as references). 
>

I don't think you could become something you are not just by thinking
about it.  Well I have always been one (bi) but I have been programmed
not to think about it.  I Just think I should be allowed to think and
feel freely.  I don't want any thought-control imposed on me.

Sorry if this sounds like a flame but please do not take it so.  I am not
writing all this to recruit/convert you, nor to encourage you to think about
bisexualality or whatsoever.  Just be yourself.  The point is I am an
unique individual and Id like to be accepted as so.  Just picture how you
would feel if people try to fit you into that stereotypical Asian
American image (whatever that is the media portrays, I don't know since I
hardly watch TV.  But all these depressing things about AAM/AAF i have
been reading these couple days are
certainly not true base on my experiences/observations). 

dan

--
|       Daniel Lam  danl@comm.mot.com  Chicago, Il, USA         |  
|...  Merry Xmas, Don't drink and spike, Don't drink and jibe,  |
|  Don't drink and blade, oops this last one does not rythm ....|
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: bhchan@soda.berkeley.edu (Billy H. Chan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian cliques. Why?
Date: 12 Dec 1992 09:00:05 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
Keywords: Asian-Americans

In article <1992Dec12.001309.11459@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> bshieh@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Ben Shieh) writes:
 >    A former Asian American studies TA of mine once observed:
 >
 > People see a bunch of White guys hanging out wearing the same jackets and 
 >they see a fraternity.
 >
 > People see a bunch of African_Americans hanging out wearing the same 
 >jackets and they see a gang.
 >
Good points, I agree.  In fact, I must admit I fall into that category, and
am not afraid to admit I'm racist.  It's fools who think they are not racist
when in fact they are that should be ashamed.

How about a bunch of white guys hanging out wearing the same white dunce
cap and white robe? :(     (sorry, couldn't resist)

 > So what do people see when they see a bunch of Asians hanging out wearing
 >the same jackets?

My friend (caucasian) once coined the term NerdHerd.
Now, we use that term whenever we see any group of people marching around
(cross campus, out of the DC, whatever).
(btw, for the humour-impaired, we were only joking)




-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
*	William H. Chan		<bhchan@ocf.berkeley.edu> 	*
*	Lost at Berkeley   	<bhchan@soda.berkeley.edu>	*
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gwangung@carson.u.washington.edu (Roger Tang)
Subject: Re: Asian cliques.  Why?
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:48:45 GMT

In article <1271@xlnt.COM> david@elwood.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (David Johnson) writes:
>People socialize with people
>they feel comfortable with.  Can you fault them for that?  Everyone
>discriminates this way.
>I cannot imagine any of us being comfortable with the mainstream
>Caucasian crowd and not because of race.  None of us cared to get
>stoned, scream, behave like a jerk and think we are cute because of
>rude and crude behavior.  I am not saying that all Euro-Americans
>do this but many do and it makes us uncomfortable => we do not
>socialize with such people.

	Hmmmm.....so do you think there's a carryover from this to hiring
practices? Say, in corporate management? Or political appointments....

-- 
Roger Tang, gwangung@u.washington.edu
Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW
	"The definition of balls is for a non-singer to go karaoke singing
with the cast of a musical revue."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.politics.clinton
From: al@gtx.uucp (Alan Filipski)
Subject: Re: Political Power--Why the quotas?
Reply-To: al@gtx.com (Alan Filipski)
Organization: GTX Corporation, Phoenix
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:48:31 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.080115.15873@u.washington.edu> gwangung@carson.u.washington.edu (Roger Tang) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.063145.2250@news.columbia.edu> dnm9@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (David Neal Messina) writes:
>>If you rely on arbitrary characteristics such as race, you won't be
>>able to please everyone.  Some group will inevitably feel
>>underrepresented, so discount the issue entirely.  Hire in the most
>>equitable fashion--hire the person who will best perform the duties of

>First task:  define qualified.

he didn't say "qualified", he said "best".  why should we accept someone
who is merely "qualified" instead of seeking the best?


  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 ( Alan Filipski, GTX Corp, 8836 N. 23rd Avenue, Phoenix, Arizona 85021, USA )
 ( INTERNET: al@gtx.com      UUCP: uunet!gtx!al         PHONE: (602)870-1696 )
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
x
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian-male, nerd, geek, etc.
Date: 11 Dec 92 17:54:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: oakhill.1992Dec11.175420.27737
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
Distribution: na
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.

In article <1g6umfINNqto@agate.berkeley.edu> mafu@ocf.berkeley.edu (Mark Fujimoto) writes:
>        HEY JIM PAK!!!

OK, I'll bite.

>In article <1992Dec10.014752.15406@hspice.portal.com> georgew@hspice.portal.com (George Wu) writes:
>>
>>     Likewise, I know by counterexample the AA male geek stereotype is wrong.
>                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^     ^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^
>>My best friend stands six foot, loves the outdoors, loves physical extertion,
>                       ^^^ ^^^^  ^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^^  ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^
>        [ munched...]
>
>And married too!  How do you think he did it?  ;)

That's not the right question to ask, Mark.  The correct question is that if
this guy has so many good things going for him and can thus attract lots of
women, why the heck did he get married?

:-)

Jim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: Parents & you (was Re: Languages and Asian Americans, "loyalty" & marriage)
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:24:26 GMT

In article <877@blue.cis.pitt.edu> babar+@pitt.edu (Jonggu Moon) writes:
>[on him and his parents]
>
> We are like two different worlds. Don't understand each other at all.

and in article <878@blue.cis.pitt.edu> babar+@pitt.edu (Jonggu Moon) writes:

> my parents say that I can marry any race I wish. 
>They say the most important thing is that she loves me,
>everything else is just details.
>[...]
>
>- jon

Then it sounds to me as if your parents *do* understand you better than
you might have thought.  And vice versa.

Merry Xmas,

Jim
From: wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.MIL (Wm. Douglas Withers -- math  FACULTY <wdw@sma.usna.navy.mil>)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: looking for asian jokes
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:03:30 GMT
Organization: U.S. Naval Academy

In article <631@blue.cis.pitt.edu> babar+@pitt.edu (Jonggu Moon) writes:
>Do any of you know any ? I don't care about their quality.

All right, you must have heard this one:

A Frenchman, a Japanese, and an American go on a safari.  They are captured
by cannibals who plan to eat them one by one but tell them they may each have
one last wish before being killed.  The Frenchman says his last wish is to
sing the Marseillaise one last time.  The Japanese says his last wish is to
give his quality-control lecture one last time.  Then they ask the American.
His wish:  "Eat me before the Japanese."
-- 
Els Withers                   email: wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.mil
          phone: (410)267-3192 / fax: (410)267-4883
		  
The real difference between humanity and other animals:  birth-control pills.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american