HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bhattach@quip.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Hindus in parliament/discrimination
Date: 9 Nov 92 15:51:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: zip.1992Nov9.155150.7076
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI

In article <NAEEM.92Nov8020006@occs.cs.oberlin.edu> naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen) writes:
>
>Thank you for the updated information. But I hope that people will not simply
>respond to these posts by updating the stats. The point of the last two posts
>was to get discussion started on the status of minorities in Bangladesh
>and state apparatus that further discrimination against them.
>
> [...]
>
>Meanwhile our own people have been perpetrating genocide in the Chittagong
>Hill Tracts for the last two decades. This has merited hardly any mention on
>scb in recent months.
>
>I hope to see some constructive discussions start on these topics.
>
>--
>Naeem Mohaiemen
>216-774-1993
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Forget your identity. Be Bengalis"	
>			[Sheikh Mujib to Chakma tribal leader]
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

I think that the main reason for such discrimination is lack of resources
and poverty. Whenever the economic situation worsens, people tend to look
for scapegoats and of course minorities everywhere are very tempting scapegoats.

I think this happens not only in our subcontinent but everywhere in the 
world. It is not a coincidence that fascism arose in Germany in the twenties
and thirties when Germany was reeling under the economic devastation of the
First World War and it became very convenient to blame the jews. Similarly,
the inequities that the union of the two Germanys has  led to is to some
measure responsible for the current resurgence of racism in Germany and the
attacks against immigrants at Rostok and elsewhere.

I seem to have read that the main source of friction between the Chakmas and
the Bengalis is over land. Apparently Bengali marginal farmers and landless
labourers encroach on tribal land and this brings about the conflict. Obviously
this is an economic problem and could be avoided if there were enough resources
to go around and satisfy everyone,

Shubhechhante' ,

-Sayan Bhattacharyya.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
From: uds@trace.eng.wayne.edu (Seetamraju Udaybhaskar)
Subject: Re: MULLAHS BURN QURANS AND DESECRATE MOSQUE IN DACCA
Reply-To: uds@trace.eng.wayne.edu (Seetamraju Udaybhaskar)
Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 02:33:52 GMT


could someone enlighten us all regarding what is the reason that
we hear som many news reports about progroms on the ahmadiyaas
(Most of the reports are about incidents in pakistan and iran (if
I recall right) ).


Seetamraju Udaya Bhaskar Sarma
(email : seetam @ ece7 . eng . wayne . edu)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.pakistan
From: f43703a@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp (SUPRATIC GUPTA)
Subject: R: Conversion in/out of ISLAM
Organization: Nagoya University Computation Center, Nagoya, Japan.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 07:31:21 GMT

I asked a question about coming in and out of Islam.
I have got numerous response. Allong With this I got many   
responses on the TRAPPED GIRL case also.

1)TRAPPED GIRL: All people said that the best solution is
that he convert to ISLAM. Some said that in Quran it is not  
explicitely mentioned that one cannot convert out of ISLAM. 
One more pointed out that they can mentain their seperate
religion. Mazority feels that it is a wrong option. But one
of them has said that he personally knows one such case. She
is married to a HINDU. Both families are happy. It created a
bond of friendship between the families. This is in Bangladesh.
While answering to me One even went to the extent of degrading
Hinduisim to the extrime. He said "One should not downgrade one's         
spirit by converting to pagan, or polytheistic religions, but rather
..." I replied to him does it really make any sense degrading me like
this. Lucky that Hindisim doesnot teach Killing. According to
Islamic standard he might be punished to death. These type
of loose statement causes Tension in many societies. It has
cause many roits in INDIA.

Any way I will not Divert. I mean that, What ever you think
What ever you do Please keep in mind first that we are also
Human being. We also have red blood. The main aim of life
should be to bring Harmony in the society. Love and friendship
is the only means.

With Regards
SUPRATIC GUPTA
I will write on responses about IN/OUT of ISLAM in my next letter
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Saif Ahmed)
Subject: Re: Talaq-by-phone
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 04:57:45 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Nov10.173337.23664@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> indu@iss700.Columbia.NCR.COM () writes:
      Hindus consider every Hindu as their relatives.  Very cultural.
      I may not be known to you. So? I consider you or all those on s.c.b. as 
      bandhus because few centuries back there  were some Hindus who were 
      converted forcibly into Islam whose descendants are muslims in
      Bangladesh

     I do not know if one would call some questions about Islamic practices
     obnoxious.

The questions wouldn't have been obnoxious if you did your homework
You made them obnoxious.


      So I do 
     not understand WHY you are hell bent upon proving that I do not know.

I don't understand either. I thought that was quite well established.

     THIS JUST PROVES YOUR obsessive-reactionary attitude. You are bringing some
     third party too.  I do not know your intentions. DO YOU THINK BJP is that 
     stornger than ISLAM in matters pertaining to Islam? Is soc.culture.bangladesh
     an IMPROPER PLACE for questions on ISLAM? 

YES!!! Try soc.religion.islam again. You have tried it already so try
using a different name this time.

--
                                                                          _
                                                                         / \
 ________________________________________________________________________\_/
/ \  							                   |
\_/                                                                        |
| | Saifuddin Ahmed                                                        |
| | sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu                                             |
| |________________________________________________________________________/
\_/
From: alam@ee.rochester.edu (Sheikh Kaisar Alam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Baggage Rules
Keywords: I need one of those
Date: 13 Nov 92 20:02:29 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Univ of Rochester, College of Engineering and Applied Science

Does anyone have a copy of our recent Baggage Rules? If yes, please let me
know by email.
Thanks in advance,

Shuja
-- 
Always tell the truth,
    Nothing but the truth,
	But, not the whole truth.
From: dwright@metz.une.edu.au (Denis Wright)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: The Survey
Keywords: yes,no
Date: 9 Nov 92 22:17:46 GMT


Hell's bells!  What a storm over a survey!

Shakil has put his views and raised some valid points.
Others have responded with some vigour.

The debate over the survey can go no further without
descending into useless name-calling.

While I'll happily fill in the survey (because I think it
could yield some interesting results which will satisfy
curiosity more than anything else,) I don't think there's
any need to get stuck into Shakil over his viewpoint.

Do one of two things - either (a) respond to the survey 
or (b) don't.

Let's talk about something else, unless you're all feeling
particularly aggro!

Someone answer me one question - why is it not possible to
disarm students at the halls of residence at Dhaka University?

'bye from Oz,

Denis.
From: naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen)
Subject: Bangalis to be more worldly(Re: US military assistance to Bangladesh
	<1992Nov10.115427.813@walter.cray.com>
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 22:34:01 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Nov10.115427.813@walter.cray.com> qs@haithem.cray.com (Qasim M. Sheikh) writes:
   Why is US interested in giving Bangladesh millitary aid.
   Pakistan got the millitary aid for being the front line
   country against Soviet Union in the 80's.
   Will Bangladesh be used against India?
----
The article said one of the interests was to expose Army officers to
more of the training abroad so that they would become more worldly.
This was after a para about the higher propensity to revolt and
lead coups in s asia then elsewhere. Seems to be a connection they
are drawing =>

	Expose wogs to world class military training rooms (a la
patriot games) and they will stop doing ornery things like killing
ther civilian leaders and usurping power.


   Is it going to be a base for repid deployment force to
   take care of mideast?
----
Actually when US army team, fresh from high jinks in Iraq, came to Bangladesh
to help with cyclone control, opposition raised hue and cry that US wanted
air force base in one of strategic islands in Bay of Bengal.After the volcanic
eruptions in Philipines, they wanted a more stable climate.


   I hope the leaders have enough sense to say no.
----
the last person to do so was Sheikh Mujib and look where that got him.

--
Naeem Mohaiemen
216-774-1993
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I suppose it is because I am a wog."
-[UN Secretary General Boutros Ghali on snub over Somalia vs. Bosnia debate]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: nns3321@tamuts.tamu.edu (Nripendra Nath Sarker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Marital status (definition of hindu)
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:35:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: tamsun.1992Nov9.213500.5871
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station

From: ahmed-shakil@CS.YALE.EDU (Shakil Waiz Ahmed)
Subject: Re: Marital Status (definition of Hindu)


As far as Islam goes, Muslims believe that everyone is *born* a
Muslim.  How their beliefs develop after that is a function of
environment and experience.

	Vinderwale (?spelling) said everyone is born as sikh. It
	is the scissors that changes his religious identity.

Are there not arguments amongst Hindus about what Hinduism actually 
constitutes? Haven't we seen different Hindus disagree over this very thread?

-- Shakil Ahmed

	It is obvious. We do not believe that God has any rival
	and so s/he needs popularity among human being. We do not
	believe that s/he needs to favor a section of people and 
	create an environment of enmity among people and between 
	people and God he/i/r/mself. With the wisdom given to us
	by he/i/r/m we try to analyze everything we are to 
	encounter with every now and then. Therefore it is very
	obvious to exist agreements and disagreements. 

	We are always modernizing our ideas and thoughts. Perhaps,
	only a hindu can say I am aetheist- I am not a hindu. It 
	is because he is free to constantly search for the truth.
	He is getting enlightened and we are getting too.


		Nripen Sarker
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: f43703a@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp (SUPRATIC GUPTA)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: KAFIRS or NOT?
Date: 9 Nov 92 05:00:31 GMT
Organization: Nagoya University Computation Center, Nagoya, Japan.

Dear friends,
    I had made a point about some thing causeing roits in INDIA.
It   is like this.

    If you call a person a KHAFIR, in public, it might provoke a roit.
After all it is not his mistake. He is holeheartedly following his
religion. It was your mistake that you could not convey to him the
massage and convince him. It is not really difficult to convince if
you really have god in your side?

Different point:  

You said that INTER-RELIGIOUS marriages are not allowed between muslims
and non-muslims. But who decides who is muslims. The non-muslim can
be a real muslim, only thing that he is ignorant of the fact. He is
may be not able to read or write. What will he really understand by
the statement that "MOHAMAD IS A PROPHET".

Some one said: (I forgot to save it)
>IF HE/SHE DOES IT THREE TIMES ....
>the person becomes a positive threat to Islam...

That is a local and social problem. What if at future the situation is
that it doesnot "becomes a positive threat to Islam", should it still
be justified?

He also wrote
>(unless he/she is from the People of the Book in its proper sense.)
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What do you mean by "from the People of the Book"?

Please note: a friend of mine has already pointed out that he knows
of a marriage of a muslim girl and hindu boy, both keeping there religion,
very happy family. Does ISLAMIC law force us to break there love between
each other. At least your words make me feel so.

with regards
SUPRATIC GUPTA
From: kwp@wag.caltech.edu (Kevin W. Plaxco)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Visting Bangladesh Next Summer
Date: 8 Nov 1992 03:48:28 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: sgi1.wag.caltech.edu

Hey gang, hope you'll be so kind as to help me.

I've decided to "Visit Before the Tourists" (was that the catch
phrase?).  After graduation this comming June, I plan on spending 
some months traveling around the middle east and the subcontinent 
and definately won't miss Bangladesh.

Here's the idea:  I'm offering to present lectures on my thesis work
in Biochemistry at universities in several of the countries I intend
to visit.  Anyone have the name and address of the head of
biology/chemistry at DU?  I'd love a chance to meet students and
see the facilities.  I'd be most appreciative of any help.

-Kevin




Xref: sparky soc.culture.bangladesh:5618 soc.culture.indian:36016 soc.culture.pakistan:16368
From: samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Taking care of a woman (was Re: Talaq over phone)
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:57:07 GMT
Reply-To: samaddar@siemens.com

ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed) writes:

>Muhammed (pbuh) had proposed the marriage between Zainab and Zaid, so
>when Zaid divorced Zainab, he saw it as his duty to take care of her.
                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Firstly, Is it really necessary to marry someone in order to take care
of her? What happens to all the money collected by "Zakat"? Isn't that
meant for taking care of people in need?

Secondly, why couldn't Muhammed (pbuh) find another husband for Zainab?
Islam doesn't view a divorced woman in any negative way. If Zaid let
Muhammed down, it does not imply that the next husband he chose for
Zainab would also do so. What if Zainab was married to and divorced by
Muhammed's real son (if he had any)?

Thirdly, did Muhammed find anything wrong with the concept of someone
marrying his biological son's ex-wife? If so, did he ever explain why?
If not so, did he ever explain why?

Sumitro
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.pakistan
From: naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen)
Subject: Pakistan specific post (Re: IMPORTANT MESSAGE
Followup-To: soc.culture.bangladesh
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:37:03 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <BxL0t8.D3B@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> rafatm@sage.cc.purdue.edu (unknown) writes:>>

   In article <1992Nov11.213005.13602@ringer.cs.utsa.edu>, tahassan@lonestar.utsa.edu (Tawfiq . Hassan) writes:
   > The Pakistani American Community of San Antonio, Texas, USA,  is pleased to
   > announce the formation of PAKISTANI AMERICAN CULTURAL ASSOCIATION OF GREATER
   > SAN ANTONIO (PACAGSA).
[deleted]

>>   Please confine such articles to the soc.culture.pakistan. This is the newsgroup
>>  for BANGLADESH.       
----

Rafat, while I agree with you that this particular announcement was too 
specific to be of any interest, the same is not true for all such articles 
related to Pakistan. I have cross-posted some of my posts on abortion in
Bangladesh, feminist groups in Bangladesh, etc. because I thouught they
would be of intererest to other south asians.

--
Naeem Mohaiemen
216-774-1993
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I suppose it is because I am a wog."
-[UN Secretary General Boutros Ghali on snub over Somalia vs. Bosnia debate]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: towheed@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov 
Subject: ISLAM and ME
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: ISLAM, BANGLADESH
Organization: NASA - Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 22:38:00 GMT

Folks ---

I am new to Vnews and I have been reading things for some time now but I have 
never felt the urge to reply.  Until now.  As a Bangladeshi and a Muslim I fell 
very sad that such silly and thoughtless things are being said.

Who are we to define what God is !  There was some discussion on who is a 
Khafir and that Hindus and Muslims that do not follow the Holy Qu'ran are
Khafirs.  My question is, "Who gave us the power or the duty to figure out who 
is or isn't Khafir ?"  My reading of the Holy Qu'ran tells me that God said 
something like, 

"There is no compulsion on religion,
 The truth is clear from error"

[ correct me if I'm wrong ]

If this is the case, one can assume that it is upto the person in question to 
figure out what his/hers duties are to God.  I agree that many Muslims have 
agreed that there are things one needs to do in order to look religious.  But, 
I also know many who pray 5 times a day and go drinking in the night (I am 
reminded of one minister of Religious Affairs.)  

The point is let's not go around calling people this and that, let's instead 
set fine examples so that other may see and know who we are.  I think that's 
what the Prophet (pbuh) did.

As for who is a khafir, let God figure that one out !

Regards,


Syed Towheed 
(towheed@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov.us)
From: b645zmk@utarlg.uta.edu ( ( ))
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Origin of 'Sylhet'
Date: 12 Nov 92 02:46:00 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Nov11.030629.12135@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, bhattach@quip.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes...
> 
>Recently a netter (sorry, I've forgotten who) mentioned that the name
>"Sylhet" is said to have originated from the legend of how Hazarat
>Shah Jalal made rocks move at his command ("Sheel hot!") .

I mentioned it as a myth. And myths sometimes do not have acceptable
explaination (in wordly sense). As far I can recall my elementary school
history knowledge, it was "Srihotto" before the fell of King Gourgobida,
then "Shil Hot", then "Sylhet". It is also from the daily life learning
as I was born and brought up in Sylhet.
> 
>However, I remember having read somewhere that "Sylhet" is a corruption
>of the name "Srihotto" which was the original name of the area.
> 
Yes, it was originally "Srihotto".

>Could someone confirm the veracity of this etymology  ?
>
Sorry, I cannot confirm this, I donot have any reference to my opinion.

>Shubhechhante',
> 
>-Sayan Bhattacharyya.
>
Abed


> 
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
>  Mi verso es de un verde claro | My verses are soft green
>  Y de un carmin encendido ...  | But they are also flaming crimson...
>     
>                 (Jose' Marti)                         (Jose' Marti)
> 
>
From: ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Marital Status (definition of Hindu)
Date: 13 Nov 1992 21:32:42 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: curie.systemsy.cs.yale.edu


In article <1992Nov14.014410.4211@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp>, f43703a@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp (SUPRATIC GUPTA) writes:

> I disagree with SHAKIL completely. I use RAMKRISHNA's
> explanation on this topic. He is supposed to have reached
> GOD (I don't know what it means, not the topic here). He practised
> all religions and found that all of them lead to the same and
> the only GOD. It is just like the rivers that originate in
> different places and take different paths and reanh the same ocean.
> 
> This theory takes care of allreligion. It is a all encompassing
> theory. 
> 
> What do you say? Don't ignore it?

Perhaps you can explain the following paradox to me.  Suppose you
believe that *all* religions are right.  Let us call your
all-encompassing religion X.  Now since your religion is
all-encompassing in this respect, *everyone* is a follower of X.  That
means Christians, Hindus and Muslims alike are followers of X.  And
any follower of X has to believe in the truth of *all* religions.
Clearly, then, any follower of X has to acknowledge that Islam is the
truth, just as all other religions are the truth.  But if Islam is
indeed the truth, then you have to accept that Islam is the *only*
truth (because that is what Islam preaches) and thus all other
religions are not the truth, i.e. all religions in (X - Islam) are
*not* true.  But this contradicts an underlying belief of X that all
religions are true!  Furthermore, since X is not *equal* to Islam, X
itself is not true according to Islam!  This leads to a paradox
because apparently you cannot be a Muslim and a follower of X at the
same time, which contradicts the underlying framework for X itself.

You see, a Muslim believes that Islam *is* the truth.  It may well be
that followers of other faiths will end up in heaven or whatever, but
that is up to God to decide, not us.  Nevertheless, as far as the
*complete* truth is concerned, a Muslim believes that Islam represents
it.  Other religions have similar views about themselves.  And that is
why you cannot have an all-encompassing religion which labels *all*
religions as the truth.

-- Shakil