HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mark@whizbang.wariat.org (Mark W. Schumann)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: 20/20 and Spanking 
Distribution: world
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 92 02:51:17 GMT
Organization: The Software Sweatshop, Cleveland, Ohio USA


In article <1d7de9INNdja@network.ucsd.edu> dlin@weber.ucsd.edu writes:

  >                     Logical consequences are great, IMHO.  Also,
  > once our son was old enough to help clean up messes, a natural
  > consequence of throwing food or making other messes, would be to 
  > help clean it up.  

So true.  When the Little Hoser <whizbang!adele> pitches food
repeatedly, we take this as a sign that she's done eating.  This
is usually a correct interpretation; when it's not, she figures
soon enough that the logical consequence--no more food--is really
not what she wants.  This works well and doesn't upset anyone.

--
Mark W. Schumann/3111 Mapledale Avenue/Cleveland, Ohio 44109-2447 USA
Domain: mark@whizbang.wariat.org                      CIS: 73750,3527
"We're not nuts or anything; I mean *I'm* not nuts." <whizbang!judy>
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: judy@core.rose.hp.com (Judy Smith)
Subject: Re: Teething and Medication
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:31:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: HP - Systems Technology Division
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]


Erik is 19 months and still teething.  We went from generic Tylenol drops
to cherry elixer-he likes the taste better.  We don't give it to him 
around the clock all the time, but there have been steady stretches of
a week or so.  I have not heard of any side affects, but I'd also be
interested in hearing of any.

--
Regards,

Judy Smith
Erik's mommy
From: lcheap@cac.washington.edu (Laurel Cheap )
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: High-chair reco wanted
Date: 10 Nov 92 21:07:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov10.210738.16657
Distribution: usa
Organization: UW Computing

In article <DURRIYA.92Nov9163917@doctor.osf.org> durriya@doctor.osf.org (Durriya Netterwala) writes:
>
>        I would like recommendations for high chairs.

As others have, I highly recommend the Fisher-Price high chair.  The
model we have has the following features:

- large tray sloped away from the child
- removable tray for clean-ups at the sink
- seat belt around the waist and between the legs so that the child
   doesn't squirm out under the tray and they stay put when you
   remove the tray for cleaning
- single hand tray adjustment and removal
- folds flat for storage and travel
- seat cushion removable for cleaning 
- bar on the back of the seat for hanging bibs, washcloths, etc.
- lightweight (for taking downstairs so we can watch tv while eating,
   but that's another thread :) )

We've been very satisfied with ours.

-Laurel
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Laurel Cheap           University of Washington   lcheap@u.washington.edu
Information Systems    Seattle, Washington  USA   a.k.a. Brendan's mommy
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ivy@chem.ucsd.edu (Ivy Blumberg)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re:  20/20 and spanking
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:49:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: network.1duqhkINNkqi
Organization: University of California San Diego, Chemistry
NNTP-Posting-Host: chedccf0.ucsd.edu

In article <1d6s18INN9uh@network.ucsd.edu> dlin@weber.ucsd.edu (Diane Lin) writes:
>In article <1757@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> pleeper@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Paulette Leeper) writes:
>>In article <9211020046.AA23462@fieser.brynmawr.edu>
>>chirlian@fieser.brynmawr.edu (L.E. Chirlian) writes:
>>>
>sometimes think that if people actually understood more about child
>development, and the incredibly healthy aspect of rebellion, they
>would be less inclined to take such behavior personally.  
     Can you explain how rebellion can be "healthy"?
>On the one extreme, there is the authoritarian household, and on the
>other, there is the permissive household, with little or no rules to
>guide the children's behavior.  The permissive household also does
>not serve children's long-term needs well, because the absence of
>rules provides none of the structure children need (and crave, to an
>extent) to learn acceptable from unacceptable behavior.
It sounds like you are assuming anyone who spanks their child
is the extreme authoritarian, how do you support this assumption?
>
>On a personal level, my commitment to not spanking was reinforced
>very recently by an incident with my son.  He is almost 2, and one
>day, when he had refused to nap and my store of patience was gone, I
>swatted him on his diapered butt once, out of anger and frustration.
>It didn't hurt him, but it shocked him, to be sure.  Dylan
>immediately said to me "Don't hit me, Mom."  I realized then that I

I agree that spanking out of anger is wrong and ineffective.  I
believe, as others have said that there are "right" ways to spank
for acts of disobedience.  I have gotten advice from many parents
on the subject of spanking and I've tried many different methods
of discipline.  I believe spanking has it's place and I disagree
with the poster who said parents spank because they're lazy and
want the easy way out.  It's NOT easy to spank at all!  These, of
course are my convictions and I doubt anyone  on this net will
change their minds.  Parenting seems to be one of the most
highly emotional topics of discussion and everyone has their
own strong opinions.  I value the opinions of those who I see
have children who are well-behaved AND happy.  Those of you
who have opinions about parenting but have no children should
probably listen a lot more than you speak about the subject.
I love my children but I have to say being a parent is the
hardest job in the world!

ivy
From: 6500scv1@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Steven C. Velasco)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Our parents and spanking  Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Date: 10 Nov 92 23:55:46 GMT

In article <119450003@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com> kperdue@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com (Karla Perdue) writes:


>In article <1992Nov3.144735.20643@oakhill.sps.mot.com> millerm@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Mikemoe) writes:

>   Ok, I'm curious...many people have voiced their opinions against
>   spanking...I have voiced my opinions about the usefulness of 
>   spanking in child-raising...

>   [....]

>   So, if you were raised in a home where your parents spank, and they didn't
>   do so in an abusive manner, AND you oppose spanking, I'd sure like to hear
>   briefly why you do....either post, or email and I'll summarize. [I have been
>   following this thread, so no need to make it a long letter discussing what's
>   been said already. Please keep it brief]

I fit your description to a T.  I can recall being spanked on just 3
occassions, I can also recall the fear of those occassions.
Getting spanked didn't teach me anything about why what I was doing was
wrong, only to fear my father.  In fact, I can't even
remember what I got spanked for!  I can remember the time my mother told
me why it was wrong to take things out of her purse (no spanking), and
I never repeated that behavior.  I can remember why my father was upset
with me when I sold my bike for a ridiculously low fee (no spanking), and
I learned a valuable lesson about money.  I can also remember when my
mother told me why it was wrong to beat on my childhood friend (no spanking),
and I stopped doing it.  The point is, for me, spanking only taught me about
fear, not why my behavior was wrong.  I am sure that my parents explained
after the fact why my behavior warranted a spanking, but all I recall is
the fear.  Because of this, I do not and will not spank my son.  I do not
want to be feared.  Max (my son) will learn all of the lessons about life
that he needs to know without spanking.

Other respondents have talked about the deletirous effects of spanking on
self-esteem (I'm thinking of Karla Perdue here).  I too feel that my self-
esteem is quite low as a result of the spankings I recieved as a child.
To me, it seemed that when my father spanked me, he hated me.  I know that
this is not true, he hated my _behavior_.  Spanking can never effectively
deal with this distinction, IMHO.  Spanking seemed to reinforce the notion
that my physical being was bad, and needed punishment, when all that was
bad was my behavior.  It is so important to distinguish between bad
behavior and a 'bad person'.   I wished everybody could see the fallacy
of spanking as a method of teaching.   For those who would argue that
spanking is an effective method of punnishment, I would just say that we 
approach parenting from completely different paradigms.  Parents are first 
and foremost teachers, whose main purpose is to shape and mold, not punnish.

Steven Velasco
UC Santa Barbara
DEpt. of Sociology
From: mfineman@cad018..intel.com ( Mark S. Fineman )
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Motor perception skills?
Summary: what does motor perception skills mean?
Date: 13 Nov 92 21:12:49 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation, Santa Clara, CA

What does the term motor perception skills refer to?

I know what "motor skills" are, but I don't know what
motor perception skills means.

-- 
Phone: (408) 765-4277  FAX: (408) 765-5719
Mail Stop RN4-36; Pole L10; 2200 Mission College Blvd.,
P.O. Box 58119, Santa Clara, CA 95052-8119
mfineman@scdt.intel.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: lowry@watson.ibm.com (Andy Lowry)
Subject: Re: Things My Parents Did Right
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:00:48 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <1dtv3mINNm5k@informatics.wustl.edu> bloch@wupost.wustl.edu (Charlene Bloch Abrams) writes:
 > I think this is a great thread. My parents:
 > ...
 > 6. Never said they didn't like/approve of friends/boyfriends, until after
 > I had dumped them, if at all.

This one I highly recommend, especially the "if at all" part, and not
just from parents.  That is, don't assume that just because a
relationship is ended, either party now wants to hear how creepy you
thought the other one was or anything like that.  I got this treatment
from my family once, and it really made me angry, It also made for a
very awkward situation when my ex-girlfriend and I got back together
half a year later.
--
Andy Lowry, lowry@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7925
IBM Research, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: njamal@unix.amherst.edu (Nuhad Jamal)
Subject: Re: a new fun thread??
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 15:16:35 GMT

karen.l.carr (klj@cbnews.cb.att.com) wrote:
: In article <1d99f1INNdl8@mizar.usc.edu>, biddleco@mizar.usc.edu (Susan Biddlecomb) writes:
: > Has anyone accused you of kidnapping your daughters? 
: 
: I've been waiting for someone to say something to either my husband or
: myself.  My husband is white and I am black.  Alison right now is somewhere
: between the two of us -- either a very light-colored black or a more
: Italian looking white (I used Italian since her great-grandmother is
: Italian).  So far, nothing.  Of course, this could change when my daughter
: gets older!
: 
: 	Karen


My husband is black and I am not.  Our kids are dark but nowhere nearly
as dark as my husband.  We were once walking down the street with our
now six-year-old (before we had our second, six-months old tommorow!),
and a woman stopped us on the street.  Nesim (son) was on Tsenay's (father)
shoulders and I was walking by their side.  The woman complimented him/me
on how beautiful he was.  Then she looked straight at my son and said:
"where is your father?"  I knew that Tsenay wanted to hit her!  My son
just looked at her as if she were from another planet...

Nuhad Jamal
njamal@amherst
From: cma@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (christine.m.dakes)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Washing stuffed animals
Summary: washing and repairing....
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:54:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsm.1992Nov5.175422.29952
Organization: AT&T

> This will probably not answer the original poster's question, but
> it made me start thinking about a stuffed "Snoopy" I had as a child.
> It went with me everywhere from age 4 to about 10 (it tapered off 
> to just having him at night.).  Anyway, it received many washings,
> hanging-out-to-drys (by his ears), and surgeries (nose replacement,
> ear re-stuffings, total body restuffing, head-sewn-back-on, etc.).  I
> used to prep him for his surgeries.
> 

Well, speaking of trips down memory lane and the like:

When I was 2 yrs old, my grandfather gave me this stuffed doll,
she's mostly all pink, so I promptly named her Pinky.  Pinky's
been sitting on a shelf with some other stuffed animals---until
recently.  I am currently pregnant with our first, due 1/19/93,
and said if it's a girl, she gets Pinky.  My husband suggested
we clean good ole Pinky up, my parents agreed and agreed to do it.
My mom washed Pinky (in a bucket of water with woolite I think and
a brush) and my dad is going to sew up the couple small rips she's
got (my dad is the sewer, neither my mom nor I can even thread a needle!).
Pinky's still out air drying right now, then will will sewn, then
fluffed in the dryer (no heat).  Talk about dedicated crazy grandparents.....
I'm going to be 27 on Thanksgiving day, so Pinky's 25 yrs old! 

My husband is still wondering if the baby will get my big gushy soft
Teddy Bear...I'm still thinking about that one.....

Christine
first-time-mom-2-b 1/19/93
still "Pinky's mom"
From: cma@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (christine.m.dakes)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: What do you do when your child thinks Metallica is cool?
Summary: Metallica is cool
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:15:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsm.1992Nov12.161544.7513
Organization: AT&T

Alright people.  I am 26 yrs old, currently expecting our first
child in January, and I'm also a BIG Metallica fan, in fact, the baby
and I attended a Metallica concert, the ticket stubs are already in
the baby's scrap book which we've started. I made and wore a shirt
that says on it "Head Banger Under Construction" with an arrow
pointing to my belly.  Yes I'm a head banger and *HOPE* my child
and children are too :,).

Direct Metallica questions to me.

How dare anyone knock Metallica lyrics without listening to them!
Listen to the words people, read the lyrics, they're usually
included in the CDs.  

Let your kids listen to what they want!  Kids are individuals with
their own tastes and personalities.  If you think heavy metal music
is nothing more than satan worship or promotes suicide, then it is
YOU with the problem, you are way out in the zone.  I better cool
off and stop now.  

Christine
first-time-mom-2-b 1/19/93
and Proud Head Banger
From: janeth@hpcuhc.cup.hp.com (Janet Helmbolt)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 21:50:49 GMT
Subject: Re: Low AFP results
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: misc.kids

My understanding about AFP tests, having just done one recently and also
read a good article about it, is that a high AFP result indicates neuro-
tubal problems (possibly) and a low value indicates POSSIBLE downs syndrome
problems.  The article pointed out that this was not a definate thing and
follow up tests should be done to get a "second opinion".  An amnio test
will be more accurate.

jrh

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Subject: Re: Halloween Stories
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 01:21:23 GMT

Well I don't know about cute, but will you accept proud?  Ron and I read
a study on eating disorders that advised the best way to raise children
was to let food be food and not label some things like vegetables "good
food" and other things like candy "bad food".  Just let kids eat what they
want when they want.  We were both raised in more traditional households
where you had to finish dinner to get dessert and candy was rationed and
we both had weight problems as children (Ron hasn't gained a pound since
7th grade, but he's added 2 feet and he's not skinny).

Well, everyone we know says "Oh, that only works if the only food in the
house is healthy food."  They won't believe me when I explain that Mitchell
will often choose an apple or a banana over a candy bar or that he will
take an entire week to eat a bag of M&Ms.  But he does, and so does Erin
who has yet to eat any of her Halloween candy save 3 Hershey's kisses.
(I, on the other hand, have eaten almost half her candy, much of it fed
to me by her).

Because Halloween was on Saturday, a group of friends from church got
together for a party and to go trick or treating together.  After one
and a half blocks Mitchell announced, "We have enough candy.  Let's go
home and play."  Needless to say, all the other kids disagreed with him.

AND, Mitchell still has 2/3 of his candy bag left.  He eats a piece or
two a day and saves the rest.  His friends who trick or treated two
more blocks have already eaten all their candy.

We do so many things wrong as parents I just thought I'd take some proud
credit for something that we have really done right.  Candy has no forbidden
aura in our house.  So it's nice if we have it, but no big deal.  The same
goes for soda vs. juice, and all those other forbidden foods so many of my
friends fret over.  

-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon and all-around grouch)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking
Date: 11 Nov 92 18:32:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.24156
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and all-around grouch)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <1992Nov10.213616.2227858@locus.com> judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer) writes:
>Gee, I hope we treat our children better than we treat each other.
AMEN.

Explaining the basics of rhetoric and debate here feels a lot like
explaining "don't hit mommy" to my 2.5 year old.  Unfortunately,
while the 2.5 year old is justly accorded inexperience, I can't
say the same for the adults.
-- 
Extremism *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   in the    *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
  defense of     *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 liberty is no vice.  *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna Watson)
Subject: Re: Incongruent discipline philosophies (Was: Re: 20/20 and Spanking)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:51:19 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.204955.2227600@locus.com> judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer) writes:
> In article <1992Nov6.180340.8580@bcrka451.bnr.ca>, seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna Watson) writes:
>> Is it "better" to believe in spanking and only use it in a rational manner
>> when other methods fail, or is it "better" to _not_ believe in spanking and 
>> use it in a moment of anger?
>>
>
Please note: I did not write this; sjk@strl.labs.tek.com (Steven King) did.  
(But it is a good question.)


-- 
Seanna Watson   Bell-Northern Research, 
(seanna@bnr.ca) Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Opinions, what opinions?  Oh *these* opinions. | It's hard to seize the
No, they're not BNR's, they're mine.           | day when you must first
I knew I'd left them somewhere.                | grapple with the morning.
Xref: sparky misc.kids:28287 soc.women:19396 soc.men:19139 alt.child-support:3646 alt.dads-rights:2594
From: hohn@klee.asd.sgi.com (Deanna Hohn)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Barbie's Measurements
Date: 12 Nov 1992 19:08:11 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: klee.asd.sgi.com

In article <11NOV199207510309@utrcv1>, RMOREY%utrc@utc.com (Randall Morey) writes:
|> Several weeks ago, someone asked about an article that gave Barbie's
|> measurements in proportion to an adult woman. Since I didn't have the article,
|> I decided to just measure my kids' doll and post the results in spreadsheet
|> form, to whom it may concern. Well, I've just gotten around to doing it. So for
|> all you statisticians out there, here it is. 
|> 
|>     Barbie's Measurements
|> 
|>              Ht (ft)     Ht (in)  Bust (in) Waist (in)  Hips (in)
|>     Barbie   1' 0"         12.00       5.75       3.13       5.00
|> 
|>     English  5' 0"         60.00      28.75      15.63      25.00
|>              5' 2"         62.00      29.71      16.15      25.83
|>              5' 4"         64.00      30.67      16.67      26.67
|>              5' 6"         66.00      31.63      17.19      27.50
|>              5' 8"         68.00      32.58      17.71      28.33
|>              5' 10"        70.00      33.54      18.23      29.17
|>              6' 0"         72.00      34.50      18.75      30.00
|> 
|>                          Ht (cm)  Bust (cm) Waist (cm)  Hips (cm)
|>     Metric                150.00      71.88      39.06      62.50
|>                           155.00      74.27      40.36      64.58
|>                           160.00      76.67      41.67      66.67
|>                           165.00      79.06      42.97      68.75
|>                           170.00      81.46      44.27      70.83
|>                           175.00      83.85      45.57      72.92
|>                           180.00      86.25      46.88      75.00
|>                           185.00      88.65      48.18      77.08
|> 


	You left out one of the most important of the "Barbie" metrics,
LEG LENGTH.  Generally, they appear to be about 2/3 her height. :)
From: eacln@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (carol.l.nolan)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Advice Wanted: Is Six Years Old too Young for a Sleep-over?
Keywords: pajama party, sleep-over
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:43:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T


My daughter, who turned 6 about a month ago, has just been invited to
a sleep-over birthday party for one of her 1st grade classmates.
Although I have met both the classmate and her mother on a school field
trip, we don't know them well, although they seem like perfectly nice
people.

Katie often spends the night at her grandparents' house, and has spent
the night at her best friends house (3 doors away).  But my gut reaction 
is that six years old is too young for a sleep-over party. This is, oddly
enough, the second sleep-over she has been invited to in the last month, but
we already had plans which (luckily!) conflicted with the first invitation.

Does anyone have any experience/advice/etc. on this one?

lynn
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: GeraldR@sunfish.ratsys.com (Gerald Ruderman)
Subject: Re: Car seat battles (13 mos)
Organization: Rational Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 06:10:46 GMT

In article <92314.100920CLH7@psuvm.psu.edu> Chris Himes <CLH7@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:

>Over the last month Doug (13.5 mos) has developed a fierce determination not
>to get into his carseat.  At first, I thought this was related to a new
>daycare and associating the car with daycare, but now he fights even when I
>pick him up in the evening.  I assume this is just one of those
>"independence" stages, but how long can I expect it to last?  Any hints in
>the meantime to make things easier?  I have tried explaining before we leave
>the house that we are going to get into the car, not play (he loves to play
>outside).  Usually we start the morning with me forcefully holding him down
>and strapping him in.  Once he is strapped in he stops complaining and will
>ride fairly contentedly.

My daughter was 14 months when she started arching her back when put in the 
car seat. The first time it took my wife 15 minutes to strap her in. It 
lasted about 6 months, though it did not happen every time. We were lucky 
for her day care was walking distance from our house.

Gerald Ruderman                                   geraldr@ratsys.com