HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eak@gagme.chi.il.us (Edward A. Kennedy)
Subject: Re: Why not cure homosexuality
Originator: eak@gagme
Organization: Gagme Public Access UNIX, Chicago, Illinois.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 04:08:32 GMT

elf@halcyon.com  (Elf Sternberg) writes:
:   Dr. Joseph Nicolosi, who has a stable of ~200 male patients seeking
:"releif from homosexual urges" and has claimed, in public, to have
:"cured" 68 of them, has some interesting problems.  Among them is that
:ALL 68 of the patients he lists as "cured" continue to see him, and
:that ALL 68 admit to having homosexual drives and desires _still_.

I too am uncomfortable with his use of the word "cured."  But the 
thing to remember is that every one of those men have experienced 
a lessening of the homosexual urges that they wished to get rid of.
That shows that Nicolosi is doing something at least.  The ones on 
the TV show said that their homosexual urges were very minor compared
with before.  Art Janov, on the other hand, takes the screaming a lot
farther and therefore the changes are more complete.

:   Nicolosi has managed to get some of these men to function in a
:heterosexual setting and during heterosexual intercourse, but most of
:them remain unhappily celibate.  His "cures" are quackery.  ONE THIRD
:of his 68 have had homosexual contact of some kinds since pronouncment
:of their being "cured."
:
:   Homoesexuality is not a disease and needs no "cure."  Nicolosi is a
:homophobe of the worst sort, offering "hope" to people who need
:something entirely different.

The people who spoke on television were quite happy with the results.  
Why not let them decide what they want for themselves?

-Ed
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: john@drummond.demon.co.uk (John Fisher)
Subject: Re: Clinton is President, Bush is not even history
Reply-To: john@drummond.demon.co.uk
Distribution: world
X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.20 $
Organization: not
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 00:11:47 +0000

In article <1993Jan21.234340.10271@midway.uchicago.edu> jcav@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

> I believe that the march used in _The Bridge on the River Kwai_ was
> "The Colonel Bogie March".
>  
> "tweettweet <beat> <beat> tweettweettweet tweet-tweet-tweet"

Folklore corner: As everyone knows, this march has words:

   Hitler
          has only got one ball;
   Goering
          has two, but rather small.
   Himmler
          is somewhat sim'lar,
   And poor old Goebballs
                          has noe balls
                                        at all.

--John
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: litterst@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Stephen Litterst)
Subject: Re: Gay soda! I'm so excited!
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:13:44 GMT

In article <1jmvebINNo5b@morrow.stanford.edu> alpha@w6yx.Stanford.EDU (Alpha Schram) writes:
>In article <qxj3hyb@rpi.edu> safarj@aix.rpi.edu (Jonah Emanuel Safar) writes:
>>Right!  That does it!  I'm in Troy, NY and I find tea just fine and damn
>>good tea as well.  Bloody Brit stereotyping.  All American drink coffee?
>>Horrible stuff, causes the kidneys to rot.  Give me a strong tea any day.
>>
>>-Points (Who makes his own Peppermint and Camomille tea)
>
>Ah, but there you are mistaken, grasshopper.  The Brits find the drinking
>of HERBAL tea an affectation beyond belief.  They MUST have their caffeinated
>variety.  
>
>Alpha
>"Caffeinated tea is so acidic it makes me puke"

Well, call me British but I would kill for a cup of Prince of Wales tea with 
a dollop of cover honey.  It's almost as good as sex.  (There may be some 
things better than sex, and some things worse.  But there is nothing exactly
like it.  --W.C. Fields.)

					Steve L.

-- 
| Stephen C. Litterst           |*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*HUG*|  
| kyraan@bach,udel.edu          |       More man than you'll ever be...   |
| litterst@pecan.cns.udel.edu    \   More woman than you'll ever get.     |
|_guido@gnu.ai.mit.edu____________\ ______________________________________|
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Amherst College Sends 100+ Pro-Repeal Letters to Clinton
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 00:39:24 GMT

At about five o'clock today, out of desperation, I quickly drafted a
short letter to Clinton opposing the ban, and a banner reading "Repeal
the military ban on homosexuals!"  I printed a hundred copies of the
letter, took everything to the dining hall and grabbed a table near
the entrance which is often used for signing petitions.

The letters were all signed in an hour.  I have 101 now, will print up
more tomorrow and continue to collect signatures, including faculty
(from which I expect a better turnout than students).

I don't have a good idea how we're going to pay for all the postage (I
don't trust that they'll all be counted separately if we mail them all
in a single package) but at the moment I feel fucking ecstatic.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Tips for coming out to friends?
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 11:39:39 GMT


In article <1993Jan24.131549.1209@Princeton.EDU>
dem@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Doron Meyer) writes:

>Umm, Jess...  I think you're confusing my thread and someone
>elses.

Yup, right as rain, I had my signals crossed.  Oopsie.

>I live in a single, thank god, nice and small and *my*
>*own*..  Of course, there are a lot of people in my dorm that
>are homophobic, but there are a lot who aren't.  And, except
>for one friend who I told the other day, no one has the
>first clue.  It went well, despite my bungling.  I suppose
>that's Arne's point..  if it doesn't go well, it's *their*
>fault and they don't matter anyways.

Yeah, that's what we say to try to comfort people, I think.
Part of the problem, though, is the inappropriateness of the
whole idea of blame in this context: "fault" isn't really
that useful a concept.

>I can agree, but around this time when everything is
>changing regardless, to lose people who you thought were
>your friends is devastating.

Here's where the support is really needed.  There are things
in this life that *are* hard to bear, and loss is at the top
of the list.  

Having had reasons to think about this quite a bit, I've
pretty much come down to feeling that the Big Thing
propelling one out of Youth in Adulthood is the realization
that loss is inevitable.  When we're young, most of us
growing up fairly well protected from such scary thoughts as
loss, we can live pretty well under the illusion that all
will be well.  

Somewhere along the line we see that certain things about
the universe are really quite indifferent to us and our
concerns.  In our culture, losses of love and of life are the
biggies.  The answer to the devastation is of course
acceptance, but there's the paradox of not being able to see
that until we've already accepted inevitability.

Rather a mess, isn't it?

>The other thread, about the guy with two homophobic
>roomates, is very scary.  I thank my lucky stars I'm not in
>his shoes.  I'm still in the closet, and will be for at
>least until college.  Whatever problems I have for now are
>with myself, not anyone else.

Count your lucky stars, my young friend (I'm sure you do).
One's own problems can be quite a handful, as I recall.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat)
Subject: Re: Tim Chain Porn (Re: High School Athletes (lusher))
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 03:13:03 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.221032.2275@wam.umd.edu>  
lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) I wrote:
} Riker winked and left at that very moment Picard turned to 
} Tim's smiling face.

Wilma was impatiently waiting when Barney and Fred pulled up to  
the house.

"Fred!  There are three strange men in our home!  And Pebbles is  
in there!", Wilma screamed frantically.  "All right, go over  
Barney's house and make some brontosaurus burgers with Betty.   
I'll go see what's the matter.", said Fred.  Fred went into his  
house (and didn't see Pebbles and Dino peek at him from Barney's  
house) and closed the door.  "What the ...", said - well -  
mumbled Fred as his stared at Tim, who was still sucking on the  
VAX guy and being royalled fucked by Capt. Jean-Luc Picard.  As  
sweat rolled off of Picard's sexy bald head, he retorted "Man,  
what are you just ... standing there for!  *bites his lip and  
groans*  Make yourself useful."  With this Fred looks at the  
television audience in stupor, and, with the help of those zany  
Madison Avenue types, morphs into Jean-Claude Van Damme drinking  
a bottle of Crystal Pepsi.  

He puts the bottle down and straddles Tim's back.  Tim screams,  
"Oh God, two almost-French men in one day!  I'm gonna  
cuuuuuummmmmmm!"  Oh, I forgot.  Tim's mouth is being filled  
with the VAX guys salami-like cock.  Picard is licking  
Jean-Claude's neck, chest and shoulders ferociously with his  
pointed pink, juicy tongue, when Jean-Claude exclaims, "Geez,  
why ees eet zo ot in ear?"  The VAX guy gives him a sour, hurt  
look and says, "I'm just running a diagnostic on my portable  
VAX.  I love working for Digital - almost as much as I like  
doing this.  He proceeds to licking Jean-Claude's neck, back and  
ass, sometimes even touching the wet, slippery tongue of Picard.

They all turn just in time to see Madonna (circa 1991) take a  
picture of them and say, "Cheese!"  She puts the camera down on  
the rock coffee table and says, "Gee, you guys are sooo boring.   
I think I'll go over Barney's and play with Betty and Wilma." 

"Or is that Betty and Veronica?"

(Is Tim getting out of this alive?)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu (Tracey McCartney)
Subject: Re: Pedophilia as sexual orientation
Organization: Home of the @&#^%$* Crimson Tide
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:27:31 GMT

In article <1k18f0INN2o4@meaddata.meaddata.com>
markw@meaddata.com (Mark Wasson) writes:
 
>There is a discussion on our company's local net concerning pedophilia as
>one type of sexual orientation.  Although the thread did start with
>someone mentioning homosexuals and pedophilia in the same sentence, the
>two have now been separated in the discussion.
>
>The discussion has brought up the question of whether laws put in place to
>provide civil rights protection on the basis of sexual orientation would
>somehow include pedophilia as a sexual orientation.
>
>I assume that current laws protecting minors from sexual imposition by
>adults regardless of gender preference would still apply.  However, if
>pedophilia is a sexual orientation, how far would the rights of the
>pedophile extend.  Presumably they end where the rights of the child begin,
>but would a daycare center, for example, be able to query potential
>employees on this?
>
>Any comments, suggestions, etc., so that I can hold up my end of the
>argument?
>
>Mark
 
I don't know whether this will help you, but it seems that there needs to
be a *legal* *definition* of sexual orientation, probably involving some
element of consent between adults. That way "orientation" and "criminal
activity" would be two separate issues in the courts.
 
Tracey
Xref: sparky soc.motss:58470 ca.politics:10667 talk.politics.misc:69866
From: randall@informix.com (Randall Rhea)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Gays in the military (was:Re: Book Review "The Homosexalities")
Date: 26 Jan 93 02:59:05 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

pc@linus.mitre.org (Penny Chase) writes:

>In article <randall.727666344@seashore> randall@informix.com (Randall Rhea) writes:

>Randall's use of the word "oversexed" juxtaposed with Arthur's
>reference to blacks is very illuminating.  Not that long ago black
>males were the group that was considered "oversexed".  One of the
>tragic consequences of that stereotype (of course combined with
>general prejudice and an unwillingness to see black men as fellow
>human beings) was the infamous syphillis "research" at Tuskegee
>Institute.  For those who are interested, this week's Nova is about
>this scandalous episode (I haven't seen the TV program, but I did read
>"Bad Blood").

The same arguments used against integrating the military back in 
the 40's are being used today to keep homosexuals out of the
military.   "Gays/blacks are oversexed and perverted", "they'll
disrupt unity and harmony in the units", "Some people just can't
stand being around people of THEIR kind", ... etc.   

I find it interesting that Colin Powell is apparently against
allowing homosexuals into the military.  That's interesting.
If one Harry S. Truman didn't have the guts to integrate the
military, General Powell wouldn't be in the position to have
such an opinion.  The U.S. Armed Forces is perhaps the most
racially integrated institution in the world, but only because
Harry S. ignored the same arguments that are being used against
gays today.



-- 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Randall Rhea                                        Informix Software, Inc. 
Project Manager, MIS Sales/Marketing Systems    uunet!pyramid!infmx!randall
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax)
Subject: The Fall(well) of the U.S.
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 13:01:49 GMT

So has anyone seen Jerry Fallwell on TV lately?  He's going on and on
about how the country's going to hell in a handbasket because Clinton is
supporting the 'Militant Homosexual Agenda.'  And, of course, selling 5
videos at $35 a piece to save the country.  Watching him preach to a
congregation hurts though - how many gays and lesbians are there being
told they are worse than worthless?  I've tried to hold reasoned
debate with a number of people on the net, but listening to people like
Fallwell makes me MAD.  And he has the money to put ads on television
selling his BS.  And because he's a 'preacher' people believe him.  When I
listen to him, I wonder what we can do to educate people.  I see a few 
positive portrayals of gay characters on TV (and negative portrayals of
homophobia), but wonder if they are enough to combat the hatred.  I hope
so.

======================================================================
"For I can see that in the midst of death, Life persists; in the
midst of untruth, Truth persists; in the midst of darkness, Light
persists."
"An eye for an eye will blind the world."
                                      Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
"I'm here, I'm queer, get used to it."
                                                             ME!
lazarus@wixer.cactus.org; Michael Lax, 12514 Esplanade St., #B, 
Austin, TX  78727-4409; 512.837.1596 (h), 512.836.9715 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Gay soda! I'm so excited!
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 03:11:54 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1993Jan21.190436.23990@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>In article <C16r9A.GGp@queernet.org> rogerk@queernet.org
>(Roger B.A.  Klorese) writes:
>
>>Hint:  fill an ice tray with the same coffee.  Then use the coffee cubes
>>to chill any coffee you make later...
>
>AHA!!!  Unmasked at last!  Here, friends, is the source of
>all those "Hints from Heloise" columns you've hated for
>years.

That's "Hints from Hell, Louise"...
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Sometimes you wake up.  Sometimes the fall kills you.  And sometimes, when
you fall, you fly."                                                -- N. Gaiman
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo)
Subject: Re: Tim Chain Porn (Re: High School Athletes (lusher))
Organization: New York University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:01:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.043239.4584@gordian.com> mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:

>In article <1993Jan22.041513.5562@tc.cornell.edu>, shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
> 
>> HAH!  When I was first started programming, Fortran was
>> *brand* *new*.  My father used to bring home card decks and
>> teach me and my sister to read the holes

>  Ha! My mother use to make these hideous xmas decorations by
>taking punch cards, folding two corners in, arranging a whole
>bunch of them in a star arrangement and spray painting them
>with gold and glitter.

We still have a huge stack of old punch cards in the house which we use for 
book marks, shopping lists and (when banded together)  paper weights.  
Simply can't bear to throw them out.  Would welcome any other suggestions...
I think I'll pass on the tacky Xmas decorations though.

Emily
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Blatant birthday information! : -)
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 03:10:53 GMT

In article <thaaang.728147614@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:

>Ouch. This reminds me of a line from a play called _The Foreigner_:
>'There's not enough left of your mother to spread on toast!' (or
>something along those lines)

Almost exactly that -- I think the line is "And that man, he said the
most horrid things about my mother!  That there wouldn't be enough
left of her to spread on toast!"

(My father's playing Charlie in the Concord Players' rendition next
month, and I ran lines with him this weekend, gok?)

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Audrey
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 17:15:23 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1jr4iqINNdhv@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>Oh.  I just never think "great actress" and "Katharine Hepburn"
>at the same time.  "Great movie star", yes, but not "great
>actress".

"Runs the gamut from 'a' to 'b'," eh?
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Sometimes you wake up.  Sometimes the fall kills you.  And sometimes, when
you fall, you fly."                                                -- N. Gaiman
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Wednesday, 27 Jan 1993 07:47:25 PST
From: <TOMBOY@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Can Someone Please Repost Phone & Fax for Lifting Ban Support

I lost the articles that stated phone numbers and fax numbers that I
could show my support for lifting the ban on gays in the military.
Does anyone, or maybe it doesn't exist, have an e-mail address for
anyone I can show my support to?  I live in the San Francisco Bay
Area in California.

One thing that really bugs me is that we already are in the military,
yet when the television news goes to military bases and asks them
how they feel about the ban being lifted, most say it will hurt the
military.  Don't they know that they already take orders, eat, sleep,
and work with us??????????



                              Terry A.

*****************************************************************************
This post is mine and does not reflect the opinion of my employer.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: Audrey
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:40:34 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <mattm-250193155612@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:

>Dolphie has spoken (not that I had any doubts...).  I think, perhaps,
>Miss Hepburn will still manage to sleep nights, though it is
>extremely unlikely the opinions of such cultural giants as Adolphson
>and (<snort>) Reaser will ever reach her ears.

Oh, boy, I'm just so _excited_!  The Kultur Kween from Apple apparently
holds me in as much contempt as he does Jess and Arne!

^Kiss Kiss^, Splat.  You've just made my day.  If I've topped _your_
fecal roster, I must be doing _something_ right!

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B5 f t w g+ k s              I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Gay soda! I'm so excited!
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:20:27 GMT

In article <C16Az1.8uC@news.cso.uiuc.edu> StarOwl@uiuc.edu writes:

>twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>
>>Pepsi is marketing it because of the
>>surge in popularity of bottled water and Clearly Canadian, and *that*
>>is one of my peeves.
>
>Hey, that's the way capitalism works!
>
>...and work it does!

You're catching on.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: You wan' Kulture?
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:31:25 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

I'll gives you Kulture - the San Francisco Ballet company will be
performing several dances set to the *Andrews* *Sisters*

Now, *that* is *art*

*X*
(did I mention San Francisco was becoming a pit?  I did mention
that, didn't I?  I'm sure I did.)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Into the streets!
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 00:55:24 GMT


In article <C1DHHu.EDn@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com
(Brent Capps) writes:

>I'd also like to add that, even if Clinton turns out to be
>really good on our issues, there's a danger that we'll get
>too dependent on having a sympathetic party in the White
>House and be caught napping some presidential election.  It
>takes time to build up a grassroots support structure, we
>shouldn't let ours get neglected through complacency.

Oh yes indeed.  One thing that tends to work against us is
just this complacency you mention.  For instance, quite a
number of LGB people themselves have the impression that
because things have improved in various ways during the past
generation, they need not really be that concerned about our
issues.  Most of us have probably heard someone say, "Oh, I'm
not political," or "I don't like politics," or "I don't want
to be involved," etc.

But as you note, I think quite correctly, the fortunate
circumstances we *may* (I emphasize that word) be enjoying
now are only a part of the overall problem, and I would say
not a large part at that.  The leverage of a progressive
person at the top can be enormous, but policy is implemented
by bureaucracies and carried out by our fellow citizens, and
it is *there* we must always be ready with a reasoned,
principled activism.  And grassroots is the mainstay.

<> Absence of evidence should never be mistaken for evidence
<> of absence. -- Astronomer Walter Lewin
-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]