From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Yoshi Hattori
Organization: Twilight Zone
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:10:05 GMT

In article <BD.92Nov18133022@fluent.UUCP> bd%fluent@dartmouth.EDU writes:
>pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) writes:
>
>>An apparently unarmed person is approaching you despite the fact
>>that you have a gun pointed at him and told him to stop. What
>>are the consequences of allowing him to get close enough to use
>>a hidden knife on you? Of allowing him to grab your gun, take
>>it away, and shoot you with it?
>
>Phil, do you have a window at work that faces toward the street?  If
>you do, please go take a look at it.  See that woman driving down
>the street?  What are the consequences of her taking a grenade launcher
>out of her car and launching a grenade at your window?  Better shoot 
>her now while you have the chance, eh?

	What an incredibly stupid thing to say.  If a stranger is on my 
	property uninvited and I order them to cease their advance on my
	person and they disobey, I may well blast `em.  If it appears 
	imminent that they will come into range such that they will be able
	to mount an attack upon myself, or other member of the household
	and they are NOT heeding my warnings to cease and desist, I believe
	there is nothing unreasonable with shooting, barring any outstanding
	circumstances.

>
>If an unarmed Asian was walking toward me (wearing a tux, I heard?)

	What about an unarmed Puerto Rican?  Was the mention of race
	relevant here?

>I wouldn't be pointing my gun at him and telling him to stop, I would
>ask him how I could help him.

	If that is the way you would respond, regardless of circumstance,
	then all I can say is that the world is better off without stupid 
	people.  Circumstances can make all the difference in how one should
	respond to any given development.  There are many (I would hope most)
	circumstances in which I would do exactly as you state above, but
	likewise there are also those that I could imagine, under which I
	would have a weapon ready in case someone was intending on getting
	cute.

	The fact is that if you are uninvited on someone's property, you
	run the risk of being injured, *especially* if the owner/resident
	gives you some sort of reasonable oreder and you fail to obey.
	What is a person to think?  Assuming the best in people is something
	I think most folks want to do, but anyone whose brain actually
	functions and is not from Never Never land knows that this is an
	indulgence that often cannot be reasonably afforded, if one does not
	wish to unnecessarily endanger themselves.

	This kind of thing is a balancing act, a judgement call.  Some persons
	are VERY frightened, many for good reasons.  I am very leery of any
	person or persons that would be so quick to second guess another's 
	actions in such situations as you appear to be.  Maybe this person is 
	a rotten motherfucker that saw an excuse to smoke a gook.  If so, let 
	the court prove this and let him fry.  On the other hand, perhaps there
	is some reason that this person felt genuinely fearful in the
	general case and that the behavior of the deceased served only to 
	confirm his fears to the point where he felt it was kill or be killed.
	I don't know enough about the case and I suspect that neither do you,
	so perhaps a little restraint is in order rather than making summary
	condemnations without just cause.
	
>But that's beside the point.  I'll grant that we don't have all
>the facts, but from the facts we do have the guy acted incredibly
>irresponsibly.  If someone was breaking into my house I would 
>leave by the back door and go to the neighboor's house where I 
>would call the cops.

	Simplistic nonsense.  Would you leave your wife behind?  Your kids?
	Your Dogs and cats?  I certainly would not.  If I were alone, then
	perhaps I would make my escape and call the heat.  If you would
	allow your family to be endangered/harmed/killed for the sake of
	preserving you high and mighty sensibilities and morals, that's your
	business.  That's the beauty of America: anyone is free to be as stupid
	as they please.  Personally, I hope you have more guts than that.
>
>I would not shoot him, despite the fact that I have the gun and 
>know how to properly use it.  None of my possesions are worth 
>killing over.

	And your life?  You make these absolute statements so easily it seems.
	Have you ever been in such a situation?  I have, and I made my best
	pitch to kill the motherfucker.  Dunno if he lived or died, and I don't
	care much either way.  I'm still here and that's all that matters to 
	me.
>
>From what we know so far, the shooter had no reason to think a
>life was in jeopardy, and that is the only condition on which
>it is justified to kill an intruder.
	
	As you yourself state, you do not have all the information, so how
	can you make such a statement and expect anyone to take you seriously?
	How about waiting until the court does its thing and THEN make your
	evaluations?

	-Andy V.