HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rj@incam.new-orleans.la.us (Ray Jones)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.po
Subject: Re: A racist argument against handgun control legislation.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 10:20:39 CDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Camelot BBS, New Orleans, LA

> In article <1992Aug10.132118.1693@etek.chalmers.se> lindq@etek.chalmers.se (J
> >In article <1992Aug6.180124.5853@oracle.us.oracle.com>, mfriedma@uucp (Micha
 
>>|>>If guns...not...wide spread, criminals would have a hard time getting
>>|>>them, and violent crimes would, hopefully, be reduced.

This argument has (IMO) little merit.  It is illegal to own, possess or
even carry drugs.  Perhaps, criminals have had a harder time getting the
drugs, but it certainly has not reduced (to any appreciable level) the
amount of drug use or crimes related to drugs.

> >Whith fewer guns, crimes would be less violent. At least that's what I 
> >think. Do you agree on that?
 
If we could ensure that guns would (effectively) disappear, I might
be more inclined to agree.  I refer you to my earlier statement about
the availability of drugs.  Guns would still be easily available to 
criminals.  In fact, even now, it is easier as well as cheaper to buy
a handgun (probably stolen) on the black market than it is to buy one
legally.  At least, now, criminals must be worried their victims
or someone else nearby might be carrying a gun.  If the criminals knew
no one but criminals or the police had guns, they would have "carte
blanche".

>>...I don't really understand why guns = freedom, ...
 
The United States was founded by an armed rebellion against its previous
government.  The "Founding Fathers" wanted to insure that a people
would always be able to rebel against an oppressive government & wrote
the Constitution in such a manner to make certain the people would
always have arms with which to revolt or to protect themselves against
outside invaders should the need arise.

> >BUT if carrying a gun became illegal, police would be able to arrest
>>crinimals on...charge of carrying a gun before...got...chance to rob
> >anyone. 
 
To begin with, it is against our constitution to stop and search anyone
without probable cause.  If the court feels the police had no good
reason to stop someone, then anything found as a result of that search
cannot be used as evidence against the person.

Secondly, even if the person was arrested in a legal manner and if
he was put in jail, he would (more than likely) be able to post his bail
in a couple of hours, get back on the street, buy another gun and 
continue his illegal activities while the policeman who arrested him was
still filling out the paperwork generated by his arrest.


******************************************************************************
"Camelot" BBS		rj@incam.new-orleans.la.us
PRIVATE SYSTEM		
Fidonet address		ray.jones@p38.f17.n396.z1.fidonet.org
VOICE #			504-436-1826
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: Whitley Strieber
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:55:15 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <n06m5h_.jeffp@netcom.com> jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) writes:
>Most abductees never talk about their experiences because people like you
>call those experiences "obviously false" just because they took a ride
>in the saucer, or claimed benevolent messages. Of the hundreds of known
>cases, contactees generally have similar experiences, and this can be 
>correlated to abductees, whom generally have similar experiences as well.
>
>I found it interesting that in the US, aerospace workers are a favorite
>target of benevolent space brothers. (Sources: To the Men of Earth, and
>The Promise. ) 
>
>I have been to symposiums that had several contactees in attendence, and
>I am here to tell you that they are not a product of any particualr decade,
>they are not crazy, and they sincerely believe in their experiences and the
>messages given them to relate to others. Most have never sought to attract
>attention to themselves, let alone written a book about the experience,
>and many will not step forward for the betterment of man-kind because
>of PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

  Oh, ca-ca.   People Like Us (PLU's) so not apply any stricter standards
  of evidence to this topic than to any strong claim.  If someone claims
  that heavier-than-air machines can fly or pictures can be transmitted
  through thin air or razors placed under a pyramid become sharper or 
  inexpensive exothermic cold nuclear fusion is possible then I expect 
  evidence for these claims.  Sometimes this evidence is forthcoming 
  and sometimes it is not.   

  Talk is cheap (except on Usenet, Compuserve, etc).   But there are a
  LOT more people who have claimed personal contact with God, or other
  dieties and a LOT more books articles, and other written accounts
  of such contact than there are of contacts with "aliens".  Yet I still
  don't believe the former, so why should I believe the latter?   The
  bottom line in both cases: EVIDENCE.


---peter
From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles?
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:19:17 GMT
Organization: Boeing

In article <1992Aug14.231649.21560@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> arpowell@nyx.cs.du.edu (Aimee Powell) writes:
>
>Before I go, one more thing:  Why is it up to me to prove
>the more plausible of the two explanations?  Should we *not*
>believe more easily that the circles are hoaxes, when we have
>evidence to support that claim, rather than believe that an alien
>(or other) force is at work, when we have absolutely NO evidence
>for that at all?
>
>Aimee

You don't have to prove which of the two is more plausible.

You DO have to prove that there is only ONE explanation for the
phenomena.





Rick
-- 
Rick Pavek                       | Never ask a droid to outdo its program.
kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com       |           
AppleLink:  kuryakin             | It wastes your time           
r.pavek1@GENIE                   |          and annoys the droid.  
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani)
Subject: Re: Korresponding with Klass
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 19:23:56 GMT

In article <l98ohcINN7it@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>, jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes:

[letters deleted]
|> A question arises concerning Klass' letter: What was his real purpose
|> in writing it? He's clearly smart enough to know that I'm not stupid
|> enough to take him up on a "wager" like this, so what purpose does the
|> letter really serve? I have several ideas, but I would like to hear
|> from the rest of you.
|> 
[sig toasted]


I get the distinct impression that the old fart was just yanking your 
chain. Kind of funny too. Maybe he's not such a jerk after all ;^)


-- 
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| spani@mprgate.mpr.ca  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
*****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-***************
From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Government Coverups (Re: Moon Activities?)
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:29:27 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Boeing

In article <qtgym2j@rpi.edu> morale@vccsouth19.its.rpi.edu (Enrique Morales) writes:
>I don't mean to be rude, but the gov't has been known to clear up all signs of anything they don't want known. So lack of evidence is not a totally sound argument because the possibility of cover-up is still there.

To validate his point here...  all you have to do is watch the Republican
National Convention going on right now and see the President's men
viciously supressing the "ACT UP" and other gate-crashers.

They don't just lead them away... they're tackled (and the one I saw
this morning showed a VERY aggressive tackle...  it even took out some
of the people sitting nearby...) and they way they tackle makes what
the LAPD did to Rodney look like a Sunday picnic.

No, I'm not on the side of the hecklers.  I do think their civil liberties
were knocked out of them, though.

If that isn't an example of the government supressing information it doesn't
want known, then I can't imagine what would be.

I post this only to support the assertation of the gentleman above.  If
people would like to follow this thread I would STRONGLY suggest you pick
it up in an appropriate newsgroup like:  alt.republican.thugs or
alt.ignore.voters.  I won't respond to this issue here and be responsible
for what happened in October Suprise...

Rick



-- 
Rick Pavek                       | Never ask a droid to outdo its program.
                                 |           
Seattle, WA                      |   It wastes your time
                                 |          and annoys the droid.
From: mouse
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Aliens that smoke??? Absolutley
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:10:08 GMT
Organization: Eastman Kodak

In article <1992Aug19.130948.14688@sunova.ssc.gov> kevin@andorra.Berkeley.EDU
(Kev) writes:
>
>          This just heard on the radio coming in to work this morning;
>            "The main reasons for alien visitations to earth
>             is because the aliens are hooked on our tobacco products
>             and that smoking is not allowed on inter-stellar
>             spacecraft"
>          Can anyone shed some more light on this matter?
>          Thanks------
>                 
>
>
>
>
>*******************************************************************
>No cool (s)cig yet  
>*******************************************************************    
>        
>          
>
Of course there are aliens who smoke. I work with one. As a matter of fact
he likes smoking so much he (AKA Bob) decided to stay on earth. However I
notice he has been a little home sick lately. How can you tell if someone
is an alien?  They like to read Fantasy trilogies in reverse order.
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: New LITE Beer Commercial with aliens
From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton)
Date: 14 Aug 92 08:55:50 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

ceel@ra.msstate.edu(Charles Evans) 10 Aug 1992 04:11:24GMT types--
>I saw a semi-shocking commercial.Lite Beer,has a commercial

Alas that brand doesn't advertise here in NZ on TV at least where booz 
advertising on the tube has only fairly recently been allowed but maybe 
in the cinema after a Speilberg or such.Will have to hope for some luck 
or such maybe a poster will be made up.

If it's media desentisizing what's the betting the add agencies will 
wont their cut.

Anyway wouldn't it be a bit risky in case the aliens decided to take 
action against such blatant plagirizing?.As I oft depress........

***********************                              
ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY
OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING
TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL?
************************** 

Anyway what if their not even sure if their real?.
From: dr_who@pegasus.ch (Sysop of PEGASUS)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFO Sighting in switzerland 1990
Date: 16 Aug 92 15:16:01 +0200
Organization: Pegasus BBS, Switzerland

Hi friends,

At our bbs-party, my friend showed me some pictures (photos) from
a local UFO sighthing. 
The photos were very good ... 
They were not the usual stuff  (GRAYS or such stuff).

They were took, from a friend of him, in the area of ARBON (Switzerland) at 
the lake of constanz, about in the year 1990.
(BTW: my friend works is a specalist in makeing special effects photos and
 he told me that it nearly impossible to create such photos in a studio)

On one of the picture there was the 'UFO' sourounded by different 
coloured light.
After the thing has landed. some blue rotating lights were outside the 
thing... Some of thoses blue 'lights' were flying arround his body.
(scanning him ???)

He was able to talk with that lights and he was also able to touch 
those 'things'. They were cold objects.

Afterwards he some some other light-objects :
They looked like paintings from a child... 
He thougth that they 'the aliens' were imitating him with light... 

What do u think about that stuff ?

greets 
Roger
-- 
 
      Mail    : Roger Sieber, Hauptstr. 102, CH-9434 Au/SG 
      Internet: Dr_who@pegasus.ch         __
      Phone   : ++41-71-71 70 42         ///
                                    __  ///    There can be only one ... 
        Sysop of PEGASUS BBS        \\\///       
     BBS Phone: ++41-71-71 55 77     \XX/      X.25 : +228 4752 1 2574
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: Crop Circles?
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 16:16:47 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <3326@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes:
>Rick (Slater):
>
>I'm still waiting for your proof that humans created all the 
>crop circles with 2x4s...
>
>In fact, could you prove that humans created ANY of them?  Now guys,
>let's have him figure out this one by himself...
>
>Prove to me that any of the crop circles were created by humans.

Ignoring for a moment the silliness of this statement, let me ask you
a question.

What would you consider as proof?

A videotape of a crop circle being constructed by humans? This could be
faked. Of course, there is no need to posit such extreme measures for
such a mundane occurance, or do you claim that humans do not exist,
or are rare, or some such? 

If we were to go into a field and I were to make a crop circle, would
that convince you? (Of course, I have never done this, but it does not
look as complicated as building a Brussard Ramjet) You could claim that
you were dreaming, or that it was a drug induced fantasy.

Would the results of the crop-circle contest be considered as proof?
Why or why not?

And lastly, why do you demand extraordinary evidence for simple things?
And do you do this for everything, or just crop circles?

>Rick
>
>-- 
>Rick Pavek                       | Never ask a droid to outdo its program.
>kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com       |           
>AppleLink:  kuryakin             | It wastes your time           
>r.pavek1@GENIE                   |          and annoys the droid.  

Rich

payner@netcom.com
From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: Crop Circles?
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 18:06:02 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <3330@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes:
>In article <1992Aug15.095420.2151@cco.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:
>>>>Prove to me that any of the crop circles were created by humans.
>>
>>That is easy.  Now, how about proving to us that any of the circles were
>
>But you have yet to prove it.  Show me your evidence.  Do you have any
>'proof' that the circles were created by humankind?  All I've heard as of
>yet, is heresay.

That's about all that can be posted to the net.

>                        (The point I'm trying to make here is that neither
>of us has absolute proof of our respective claims.)

The point everyone else seems to be trying to make is that anybody can
go out into the fields and make a circle. And you did not answer my
post where I inquired as to what you would consider "absolute proof".

You turn a deaf ear to those questions which make your little game
playable. You made up the rules, now share them with us. 

What would you accept as proof? If nothing, why should we waste our time?
 
>Rick
>
>-- 
>Rick Pavek                       | Never ask a droid to outdo its program.
>kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com       |           
>AppleLink:  kuryakin             | It wastes your time           
>r.pavek1@GENIE                   |          and annoys the droid.  

Rich

payner@netcom.com
From: mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin))
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: THE NATURE OF REALITY
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:57:16 GMT
Organization: Cyberdyne Systems

In article <1992Aug14.142713.26703@acd4.acd.com> gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes:
>it at night. You have to understand that the livestock for these ranchers, I 
>know-I used to raise cattle, are their life. They take care of them like
>babies almost. Another strange thing is: WHY? Why would someone "cownap" and

Given the power and influence of the Cattlemen's Association, it's
a good bet that you would do more hard time for stealing a cow
than for burglarizing a supermarket and cleaning out the meat cooler.

Is there a bounty on Greys?  :-)


--
DISCLAIMER:                                              | Bob Mitchell
"Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | mitch@ea.ucla.edu
"Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified]
"Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy         | 1987 VT700c
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Crop Circles?
Date: 14 Aug 92 21:59:13 GMT
Organization: Boeing

In article <1992Aug14.143734.3784@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> arpowell@nyx.cs.du.edu (Aimee Powell) writes:
>Unsolved Mysteries *did* set up cameras to find out what was
>going on a couple (?) of years ago, and caught people faking 
>the circles.
Without going into the quality of the data they collected, or of the
scientific validity of their techniques (or for that matter, their 
reputation), I'll accede to the assumption that people (from Earth :-)
have indeed created crop circles.  But that merely proves that they
took pictures of people making circles.  For all we know, behind the
scenes they could have staged the whole thing.

Once again, my point isn't that earthlings created crop circles,
my point is that I object to the absolute assertation that earthlings
created ALL of the circles.  This is simply because no one has proven
that they were ALL created by earthlings.  

Here's the assertion.  At least two or more Crop Circles were known to
have been caused by Earthlings.  Ergo, they all must have been.

I say "Prove it".

>Of course, this has not resulted in a major story on that show,
>nor on any others that carry the crop circle stories regularly.
>
>'mee

Unfortunately, that's the way the media works.  Reporters are, by nature,
ignorant on most of the subjects they cover.  Once they've seen enough to
give them any kind of plausible explanation, that's the end of the story.

That's why after the Condon Report, UFO stories were ignored by the media.
This was in spite of the fact that most of the members of the Condon
committee believed there was enough evidence to say the opposite of what
was said in the report.  But since the phenomena had been 'solved' by
a science guy (and we all know those science guys can't be wrong...)
there must be nothing to it.

I would imagine that the only way for me to feel reasonably certain that
crop circles are an entirely man-made phenomena would be for a hoaxter to
get shot while doing a fake circle.  I would expect that would deter those
humans from creating any more circles.  If they stop, then I'd assume
that they likely were man-made artifacts.

If they continue, I'd still have my original doubts.

I'll let you know if I ever get any photos of a non-human manufactured
crop circle under construction...  ;-)

Rick

-- 
Rick Pavek                       | Never ask a droid to outdo its program.
kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com       |           
AppleLink:  kuryakin             | It wastes your time           
r.pavek1@GENIE                   |          and annoys the droid.  
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ley Lines
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 06:22:45 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

I still have no time to answer people. Later.
John Winston
From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: So much romanticism. Its bullshit. bout time we faced facts.
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:30:23 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <18321.2a914430@levels.unisa.edu.au> 9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au writes:
>
>The proof of the existence of aliens I was referring to,
>it's us, naturally. This one should be inAlt.athiemsXXXXX

>anyway, why should one insignificant planet near one
>insignificant star etc etc etc one can only surmnise
>that aliens do exist and the proof is our own existance.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	Not sure I really understood your entire post, but I would
say that this is one of the most coherent things I have read in this
group in weeks.


Jeff-
From: ingram@duke.cs.duke.edu (Robert E. Ingram)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Wanted: Linguist expert
Summary: Microencephaly
Keywords: Maghora eqhtap ahmkag, Saloi retfu!
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:00:04 GMT
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Distribution: na
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

In article <92224.195344JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu> JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>I recently witnessed a girl channel an extraterrestrial entity and she
>started speaking in a very strange language.  This went on for about 5 to 10
>minutes.  She appeared to be in some kind of altered state.  We would both
>like to know what is being said!  It sounds, very ancient (what do I know?)
>Anyway, any ideas out there?  I am going to record it and I am willing to
>submit it to someone qualified for analysis.
>
>please private email as I may miss some of the postings.
>
>planet

I'll use my _Dictionary_of_Glossolalia_ to translate it for you
if you will post a transcript to the net.

Did any of it sound like:

  Bogie, Bogie, Bogie;
  Bogie, Bogie, Bogie;
  Sluggo, Sluggo, Sluggo; 
  Sluggo, Sluggo, Sluggo

One day when i got home this ancient sounding incantation
was left on my answering machine. And I didnt recognize
the voice! Plus there was no name left! I have also read
that certain sub-normal humans recite these strange words.
Does anyone know what it means?


-- 
--
Department of Computer Science, Duke University, Durham, NC 27706
Internet:	ingram@cs.duke.edu    (Robert Ingram)
UUCP:		mcnc!duke!ingram
From: minhtri@mcode.amdahl.com
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: ET
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:02:47 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation - Macrocode Development

(This is from Calvin&Hobbes comics)
   

     The surest sign that intelligent beings exist somewhere in the 
universe is that they never tried to contact us.

                                                  --Calvin--
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
From: alanj@dadd.ti.com (Alan Jones,AMJ1,)
Subject: Re: MUTILATIONS IN SWEEDEN ?
Reply-To: alanj@dadd.ti.com
Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:48:56 GMT

One thing I just thought of with respect to all of these mutilations - are
the mutilated animals examined for traces of how the animals were restrained 
while the mutilation took place?  I.e. any traces of anesthetic, traces of 
poison, etc.  Or evidence of straps or chains used to immobilize the animal?

The Swedish cases are the first ones I've heard of where animals were mutilated
and lived.  (Although, admittedly, I've read VERY little on the subject.)  When
the animals die, though, don't they (who?  veterinarians?!?) attempt to
determine the specific cause of death?  And if so, what *exactly* is the cause?
(I remember a post a while ago stating that many of the death certificates for
these animals stated something like "cause unknown" [animals don't normally get
death certificates, but in cases like these where "insured property" is
damaged, something like a death certificate is issued for insurance purposes]).

---
sincerely,
Alan Jones  /  Texas Instruments, Dallas, TX  /  email=alanj@dadd.ti.com

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors