HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Subject: Re: This group. (long babbling reply)
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 00:05:28 GMT

In article <25AUG199211140213@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov> aatresa@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (Teresa Kline) writes:
>I agree with you that pain creates change.  But I don't think that we have 
>to push ourselves to the point of exhaustion and severe depression (and 
>possible suicide) in order to move along.
>
>There is no reason IMHO to push ourselves to the point of exhaustion and 
>severe problems while healing.  The point is to *stop* letting others hurt 
>us.  I don't think the way to do that is to hurt ourselves.  

This is not always the only issue present.

Many of us _need_ to go all-out, damn the exhaustion, at times.  It's
much too easy to find a nice, safe corner and curl up while the world
goes by....


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: zwbm07@hou.amoco.com (Walter Moore)
Subject: SO handling recovery
Reply-To: zwbm07@hou.amoco.com
Organization: Amoco
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:58:01 GMT

Hi Teresa!

  My SO told me a few months after we started living together that she had been
abused, and by whom. *I*, in my infinite wisdom flew off the handle and got *VERY*
upset, towards her abusers -- but even that show of anger upset her. I later 
learned to deal with *my* feelings on the subject, and thus to help her deal with
hers, if she feels like it. I can't tell you what she is feeling, only what she
shares with me. It took a lot of trust and love for her to share the events she 
has shared with me.  I love her and it caused *ME* pain to hear them, as well as
anger and frustration. 7 years after telling me about the abuse she remembered, she
decided to seek therapy. She has told me of other abuses she as she remembered them,
and I have gotten better at dealing with them. I love her dearly, and she loves me.
TOGETHER we might get through the pain, but it is definitely harder on her. She 
still hates men in general (she hasn't included me in that generalization). Her
nightmares are fewer and fewer. She doesn't space out so much, and when she starts
crying I ask if she wants me to hold her or if she wants to talk or what.
Usually she just wants to be held. 

I guess I am saying that I think it took guts to even mention the abuse to your SO.
There's not much training doing that, or having that done to you, and I hope *YOUR*
SO is willing to invest the love and time and energy in trying to learn how to support
you in the manner which is best for you. Good luck, and it *does* get better.

HUGS if ya need 'em!
 
---
TTYL & TANSTAAFL ---------------- Walter Moore 
      Internet: zwbm07@hou.amoco.com

..SCUBA divers do it with depth...blub...blub...blub...

Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: barbaraj@sacajawea.csc.ti.com (Heart Dancer)
Subject: Re: sexual addiction
Reply-To: barbaraj@csc.ti.com
Organization: Computer Science Lab, Texas Instruments
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 23:17:03 GMT

In article <CMM.0.90.2.714848886.margog@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, margog@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Margo Garcia) writes:

>> However, this incident has caused me to think in depth about this
>> topic.  And while I am not a psychologist, I do have some thoughts
>> as too the cause of this behaviour.

It's not clear to me whether your observations are based on this single 
person, or on more than one experience with a sex addict.  One of the aspects
of my own recovery from childhood sexual abuse was to realize that I 
unconsciously sought out men who treated me badly, because I didn't know
any other way.

>> 1.  ...  There are those who
>> rape in the classic sense: physically.  There are those who rape in
>> a more subtle fashion, and while they have your conscent for the
>> actual act, because of their addictive need to control and
>> manipulate, I consider this to be rape as well ... rape of the
>> spirit.  And this is how I classify sexual addicts: as rapist, of a
>> differnt kind, but nonetheless, rapist.

I don't know.  My disclaimer is that I'm one of those that don't think the
work "rape" should be diluted by using it in a more general sense.  I have
been incested as a child, raped as an adult, and experienced sexually abusive
encounters.  In my emotional realm, there is a BIG (HUGE!) difference between
the effects of physical rape, and the effects of emotional/spiritual rape,
as you put it.

>> 
>> 4.  in the case of a male sexual addict, misogyny is also
>> implicated.  

I disagree.  I have been in relationships with male sex addicts who
have treated me gently, and with great respect.   

>> In the case of addicts of both genders, low
>> self-esteem or a dysfunctional self-image of any other kind is also
>> inplicated.

This is true of most anyone who is addicted to anything, as well as
most of the people recovering from growing up in dysfunctional
families.
 
>> As I mentioned, I am not a psychologist, but have a habit of
>> observation.  And through my own therapy, I have learnt a few
>> things regarding my own psychology.  I am interested in opening up
>> a discussion on this topic so as to provide more insight not only
>> for myself, but for anyone else who might be a recovering victim of
>> a sexual addict. 

I may get disagreement here, but it's important in my recovery for me
to own my part in my relationships with sex addicts.  After all, it
takes two to make a relationship.  I am one of the responsible
parties.  It's important to me because I'm the only one that I can
change.  There *are* lots of sex addicts out there, and in the past I
have been drawn to them like a moth to flame.  The only way I can
protect myself from being abused again is to learn to choose
differently.

BJ

"If I can't dance, I don't want to be part of your revolution."
						Emma Goldman
From: sasnla@shadow.unx.sas.com (Nancy Agnew)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: tipping
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:16:14 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.
Originator: sasnla@shadow.unx.sas.com


In article <BtoJwu.JnC@twwells.com>, anon-1160@twwells.com (poohbear) writes:
>
>back and forth and back and forth and back and forth and
>
>i have no equilibrium
>
>one extreme, another, another
>nothing is ever real.  or i don't know what is.

Hi Poohbear,

I find that tipping can be an awful drag most days.  One thing I've
been a little better at lately is realizing that when I'm tipping,
I'm really just tipping, and if I wait it out, it slows down and
I can see where I am.  I guess that one of the hard things, when
I'm not sure what is real, is doing what needs to be done not
to cause further harm to myself.  Enough was enough already.  I
don't always succeed, but I am getting better at catching myself
and asking if it *really* is necessary to hurt myself.

hang in there.  hope things go well for you this weekend.
NLA
-- 
Nancy Agnew                         sasnla@unx.sas.com
SAS Institute Inc,  SAS Campus Dr,  Cary NC 27513-2414
My company's opinions are not likely mine, and vice versa.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: TY.AU7@isumvs.iastate.edu (C. MARIE RIGGINS)
Subject: In need of a favor.
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 18:47:30 GMT

Hello everyone, I haven't been around this BBS too long but
I need a favor from you.  My grandfather is having bypass
surgery today and I'm the only one in the family who's not
able to be there.  To those of you who have higher powers, could
you please say a prayer for him.  To those of you who don't have
a higher power could you just please remember him to day.
I'd like to thank all of you for the welcome messages I got when I
first posted and I look forward to getting to know all of you better.
(Thanks for the message Scot).
Marie
From: v130py5w@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Renee M Sparling)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: I'm back....
Date: 3 Sep 92 13:37:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Lydia,

 glad to have ya back. I'm happy for you that your summer went well and that
you have such a loving and understanding husband! I look forward to reading
your future posts!

Renee
From: root@khijol.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: tecnical comments
Date: 4 Sep 92 12:05:34 GMT

X-ANON-Version: 0.4


there are two comments I wish to make ...

one in reply to Bill about the use of both a ! and @ in the address
khijol!anonasar@saturn.upl.com ...

	yes some systems burp at haveing a ! and @ in the address 
	ours does but the work around solution to that is to use
	\ before the ! ... works fine for me and has done for a 
	while now ...

and the second is a question that has been bother me  for some time now.

	I can post messages to asar using both anon posting services and there
	is a phenomenal time difference in when my message gets into the asar
	newsgroup ...
	Bill and Ed could you comment on this please.
	From where I am, things posted to khijol get to the newsgroup much
	faster than those posted to twwells.


--
To post to this newsgroup anonymously, send mail to khijol!anonasar@saturn.upl.com
To make sure you can reach the server, send mail to khijol!ping@saturn.upl.com
   with a valid "Reply-To:" header.
To reach the admin for this service, send mail to erc@apple.com

Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1055@twwells.com (m&m)
Subject: Re: Adults saying NO
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 21:14:48 GMT

[Paul Kram asks whether adult survivors have difficulty saying
no to sex ]

Both Shelly & I are survivors of sexual abuse & both of us have trouble
saying no.  Funny its a lot easier for me to talk about Shelly's difficulty
saying no than it is to talk about mine!

===============<< Possible Sexual Spoiler >>==============================


	We have worked for about a year on this issue and finally have come
up with a system that works.  For me I have finally become pretty good at
knowing how I feel about it and am able to say no if I don't want to.  Even
if we are in the middle of making love I can stop if I start feeling weird 
about it - or I can suggest changes to whatever we're doing at the time.
	Its been a lot harder for Shelly - mainly cause she still dissociates
fairly often when things get too scarey for her.  And sometimes she doesn't 
realize its happened.  When it happens I however notice immediately that she's 
gone.  So I will stop us.
	I know some of you may think that this is kind-of caretaking & I
suppose it is, but I guess I think of it as trying to be sensitive to her
and realizing her background, recognize that dissociating is a pretty normal
response.  So all I'm doing is trying to make sure I don't hurt her more.

	Our sexual relationship is pretty weird right now.  When its good it
is incredible, but there's lots of times that we get started and one of us 
will break it off.  Takes some real training to get comfortable with that
part of it!!  For both of us.

	I guess my only advice is to go really slow & recognize that lots of
research shows that *in general* women want to be loved, not neccessarily to
make love.  Men want it too, were just on this testosterone high that can
pretty quickly overwhelm everything else.  Shelly & I spend an awful lot
of time just holding each other.

	Ultimately the responsibility has to be be with each of you to say
no or stop if you feel uncomnfortable.  You can however do an awful lot for 
each other in making the other feel comfortable that saying no or stop is 
acceptable.

=========================   End Spoiler ==================================

Fare-Well
Mike Stoughton (aka m&m)



--
To use this service, send EMAIL to:
anon-ping@twwells.com  -- test path/get anonymous id
anon-help@twwells.com  -- for a help message
anon-admin@twwells.com -- ANON administrator
anon-0@twwells.com     -- anonymous e-mail to ANON administrator
anon-asar@twwells.com  -- post anonymously to alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: tecnical comments
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 18:40:57 GMT

: 	I can post messages to asar using both anon posting services and there
: 	is a phenomenal time difference in when my message gets into the asar
: 	newsgroup ...
: 	Bill and Ed could you comment on this please.
: 	From where I am, things posted to khijol get to the newsgroup much
: 	faster than those posted to twwells.

I can't say exactly why Bill's APS posts things later - perhaps his poll
times to sites like uunet (which he has to pay for) are restricted, so
he polls less.  Khijol polls at least once an hour, sometimes more.  The
APS software runs every 15 minutes, so there is a maximum of two hours
between the time that you send something to khijol and the time it goes
back out.  The mail in anonasar's mailbox sits in the box a maximum of
10 minutes before it gets processed - when I get sendmail ported over, it
will be processed immediately, and go out much quicker.  Since I'm not
paying for my mail feed (and I believe Bill does), I can poll as often as
I need to.

Hope this answers a few of your questions.
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: doug@cdc.hp.com (Doug Sojourner)
Subject: Re: Survivor in denial?
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 23:53:50 GMT
Reply-To: dsojourner@cdc.hp.com
Organization: HP California Design Center, Santa Clara, CA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.3 PL5

I think that on this one, I agree with Heart Dancer.  The point is
that as victims we were not permited our boundaries, and to perpetuate
that can perpetuate the "victim-ness".  Also, in my recollection, this
particular survivor already allowed "person B" to reply (though by
note, and not face-to-face).

Certainly, it seems wrong to say I'm trying to help some one who
is in denial, and at the same time to disrespect that person's
boundaries because I feel hurt.  If I'm doing something because I feel
hurt, I shouldn't pretend to be doing it for the other person's good.

--
Doug Sojourner
dsojourner@cdc.hp.com 
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: monthly APS announcement
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 21:40:36 GMT

T. William Wells (bill@twwells.com) wrote:

: I'd like to add a personal comment to my technical comments on
: Mr. Carp's announcement. Reading Mr. Carp's posting, it is rather
: obvious that, not only is he trying to differentiate his service
: from mine (an admirable goal), he is trying to denigrate mine.

Yeah, right.

: The reality is that Mr. Carp believes he has reason to distrust
: me, personally, and that is why he created his posting service.

Nope.  Wrong.  I created the posting service in response to the
expressed need for another anonymous service.

: However, instead of showing the honesty of saying that I'm a
: controversial individual with a strong personality who has been
: accused in this forum of having abused another member of it, he
: has resorted to false slurs on the quality of the service I
: provide.

Not at all.  It is your insecurity that sees a personal attack inherent
in someone else competing with his service, which, BY HIS OWN ADMISSION, is
insecure, due to his personal indiscretions regarding the service.

: You do no one any good by doing this. Tell people the *real*
: reasons you believe they should use your system rather than mine.
: Or, if you think that you should not, at least stick to properly
: presented fact when trying to compare the systems.

You overlook one very important fact in this whole khijol vs. twwells
discussion - the fact that *anyone* can pull the software down from
alt.sources, compile it, and run it on their machine.  They don't have
to use either twwells or khijol.  You see, I don't care which they use -
mine, or one they set up themselves.  You very obviously do.  Why is that?

BTW, the reason I didn't implement two-way anonymous mail is because it's
a big security hole - the administrator can look in the mapping tables
and find out which anonymous address maps to which real address (which
you obviously did when you emailed Relkie).  I am working on a *secure*
real-address-to-anon-address mapping function, where the anonymous address
is a function of the real address.  No tables need to be kept - and the
algorithm will be a one-way function, much like crypt is.  You won't be
able to go the other way.  Of course, this will only allow for one-way
mailing - no one will be able to email back to you - but I'm working on
that, too.
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: doug@cdc.hp.com (Doug Sojourner)
Subject: Re: Anger towards women (was Re: Ouch.)   (SPOILERS)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:30:54 GMT
Reply-To: dsojourner@cdc.hp.com
Organization: HP California Design Center, Santa Clara, CA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.3 PL5

I guess I want to apologize some.  I certainly don't want to silence
someone trying to recover from abuse, and I can see how my post did
that.  I'm sorry to have done that to you.

What I was reacting to was not the anger or hatred so much, as the
fact that it was posted in a forum where many of the potential readers
were abused by people who expressed that kind of hatred toward them.
Now that I've had a chance to cool off, I realize that Sandro's follow-up
clearly stated at the top that it was a spoiler and had woman hating
in it.  I also have a hard time with strong emotion, and that probably
colored my thinking when I responded.  Next time I'll wait a bit
first.

However, I still think that the "shields up" of the original posting
is not an adequate spoiler warning, especially for this type of
posting.

Again, sorry to have put a silencing message out there for anyone.

Doug Sojourner
dsojourner@cdc.hp.com
From: boserj@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: sunrise, sunset...sunrise, sunset...
Date: 1 Sep 92 03:22:57 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

sallyb@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Sally Bowley) writes:
>anon-1160@twwells.com (poohbear) writes:
>>  I tried ice.  It worked sort of...it postponed the cutting, and I htink
>>I didn't do it as deep as I might have.  I also wrote on my arm with red
>>marker; not love mmessages but hate and blood but at least I wrote it
>>instead of cutting it.  
>
>good for you!! i'm so glad. the loving messages will come, i'm sure,
>the less you feel the need to hate. take your own time; 10 written
>messages of hate are better than 1 of cutting. it's important for you
>to see your progress and feel proud of yourself!

May I ask what is wrong with poobear's cutting?  Why is ice better?  Why
is everybody trying to make poobear do something else?  I see no
evidence that what poobear is doing is incorrect.  After all, the price
is poobear's to pay, and noone else's.  And dont say that its wrong
to hurt yourself..  cause it isnt, and we all do that every day.
I can understand suggesting new methods to deal with pain, but why
must these other methods be implicitly better?

.....jeff
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: slh@gtech.com (Sandy L. Haddon)
Subject: Request for Information/Experience(s)
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich, RI
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:22:17 GMT

Hi all,

I need some advice and this seems like a good source to use.

I am contemplating spending the bucks to attend the Bradshaw workshop
on "Homecoming".  I have the book, I am doing the exercises but when
I watched the series on PBS, it seemed to go too fast for me.  I am
wondering if anyone out here has been to the workshop and I would
like to know if it helped you.

ALSO

I have been recently diagnosed as having ADHD (Attention Deficit
Hyperactivity Disorder).  From the M.D.'s point of view it is
just exactly what it says, a disorder.  Today the therapist told
me that it is typical in families that have a history of alcoholism.
My nuclear family doesn't, that I know of although the mother unit was
hospitalized for pancreatitis when I was young...

So is anyone on this group dealing with this disorder and how are 
you doing?

Thanks.

San  
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: cloister@milton.u.washington.edu (cloister bell)
Subject: Re: Just Questions
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 19:55:37 GMT

aw@sei.cmu.edu (Anne Wulffraat) writes:

>I have some questions and I'd appreciate any input from you guys.

>Do you have dreams? What are they like?

they keep changing.  a couple of years ago, i had a lot of dreams in which
there was something i had to run away from (cars, people, monsters, a
transformer robot once) but couldn't.  my legs just wouldn't work right.  it
was a terrible effort just to move them, and i couldn't get any real purchase
on the ground.  almost like i was floating 3 inches off the ground and couldn't
reach it to run.  i don't have so many of those now.  i've gotten used to the
situation in my dreams, and am better able to deal with it and run away.  i
recognize it when it happens and know what works and what doesn't.  sometimes
now i fly away instead.

>Where were you un-involved parents or adult protective figures? Did none of
>us have them?

in another state, mostly.  mom and dad were divorced, dad re-married, and moved
to idaho, then to washington.  so the rational part of me knows that if mom and
dad had stayed together, i would never have been abused because mom wouldn't
have fallen in with her bastard-rapist-ex-boyfriend.  but i also know that they
had to make the right decisions for themselves, so i try not to fall in with
this line of thought.

>How do you deal with your parents/siblings - especially if you think they may
>not remember either?

oh, mom remembers.  she just never did anything about it until *i* remembered
and confronted her with it.  dad still doesn't know.  i think he would follow
the above lines of thought and blame himself some.  my step-dad knows too; mom
finally told him (although i wish she'd have asked me first).  for him, it
explains why i was such a little jerk to him when they were dating.  i have to
give him credit for taking us as a package deal, tho.  i can't have been easy
to deal with.  neither of my siblings know either.  my half-sister (via dad)
wasn't even born yet at the time, and my step-sister (via step-dad) wasn't
around at the time.  i may end up telling her though.  she has a lot of similar
issues to deal with from her own emotionally abusive mother and step-father.
sigh.  what a great set of parents we all ended up with.  obviously, they
should teach people in school how to be parents or *something*...

>I'd give my own input, but I'm crushed for time right now.

>Thank you!!!
>Hang in there,

you too.

>-Anne
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
|tactical nuclear sdi stealth nsafood signature.  | cloister@u.washington.edu |
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery