From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li)
Subject: Re: Territory of Ancient China : Tang Dynasty
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 00:46:11 GMT


In article <92Sep8.190719edt.134@orasis.vis.toronto.edu>, liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu) writes...
>In article <liqiang.715986063@kramden> liqiang@kramden.nyu.edu (Li) writes:
>>liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu) writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>Tang Dynasty (everyone's favourity Dynasty, of course!!!  :-)  )
>>>>
>>>>Not mine. 1/2 :-)  For starters, it was a very immoral dynasty.  A dynasty
>>>>that has an emperor (Li Long Ji) who took his daughter-in-law (Yang Yu Huan)
>>>>away from his son is definitely not going to be my favorite dynasty.
>>>>>Areas of Afghanistan and central Asia are lost.
>>>>>Mongolia revived and Tang lost Outter Mongolia.
>>>>>Southern Korea is also lost.  But Tang took over
>>>>>Manchuria.
>>>>
>>>In comparison, Tang Dynasty was an enlighened area.  It was by far
>>>my favorite dynasty.  doesn't matter which dynasty, the emperors
>>>always screw around, Li Long Ji was a famous one, it's not like
>>>emperors in other dynasties didn't do this sort of things.  
>>
>>>You can say it's immoral, then what do you say for today's USA?  
>>>Tang was enlightened, women were not restricted to their homes, so 
>>>inevitably some of them were having a wild sex-life just like
>>>their noble husbands.  In comparison, southern Song was  
>>>very strict in its moral code, but it is the wimpiest dynasty of them
>>>all!  I doubt it is your favorite dynasty.   
>>
>>It is my favorite dynasty too. The racial atmosphere under Tang was that
>>of a harmony. Many talented people from minority ethnic groups were 
>>assigned to important posts and I do agree women did obtain some equal status.
>>Many women played an important role in politics, the most famous ones being
>>Queen Zhang3shun1, Empress Wu3ze2tian1 and Yang2yu4huan2.
> 
>don't forget the Tang Emperors themselves(Li) are minorities, the
>grandfather of Li Yuan the first Emperor was a fedual king during
>the "16 kingdom" time, they were Chinesized, but Li Yuan was
>reported to have red hair and blue eyes, so was the Queen of Li ShiMing,
>her last name -- ZhangSun was a chinesized Northern Wei dynasty noble
>name, so where some of there most feared field generals -- all have
>minority names, not even Chineseized.  The greatness of Tang was
>really the result of the melting pot process since the collapse
>of Western Jin, from the chaos emerged the greatest Chinese Dynasty of
>them all, not only in military strength, but in culture,  trade and
>politics.  Li ShiMing didn't really conquer though arms, but he
>really captured the hearts of the people across racial divisions.  
>Remember the the nomads tribes which paid him tribute nominate
>him for "Khan of Heaven"?  since most of them had never heard
>of the Chinese Term of "Son of Heaven" and were never respected
>the middle kingdom before until his reign.   I don't see any Chinese
>Emperor surpassed him.    
> 
>The wild sex life in Tang courts "who(s) is(are) sleeping with the Empress"
>and the accompanying coup de'tats were acturally a lot of fun, 
>must be the on top of the Soap opera series and supermarket 
>gossip tabloids of the time.  :-)  
> 
>The following dynasties are however, very boring, 'cause only the Emperor
>and the princes are be able to sleep around, Empress and consorts
>always lost their heads if the same thing were attempted.  
> 

Good story. After reading so many boring debates, I enjoy this X-rated story.