HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: halpin@vsg1.dsg.dec.com (Stephen E. Halpin)
Subject: Re: NT: please define vapor.
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 05:30:45 GMT

In article <jbone.716346951@splat> jbone@splat.dell.com (Jeff Bone) writes:
  <<stuff deleted>>
>I don't think that argument is refutable --- it's merely one
>definition.  If you think product == something that's announced,
>or exists in a limited form, or exists but is unreleased, or
>is prototyped, try sending a PO for a volume order for NT to
>Microsoft, and ask for a guaranteed ship date.
>
>If anybody thinks this isn't a *very* important point, consider:
>the press made similar hoo-ha about OS/2 a couple of years back,
>and it failed spectacularly to make any significant impact in the
>market whatsoever.  Dose of reality time --- can it be that the
>PC industry is so starved for something real in the OS area, yet
>so UNIXphobic, that they're willing to believe anything at this
>point?

UNIX is hell on wheels for your average user.  Would you have your
secretary writing up printcaps?  True UNIX has a pathetic file system
(fsck? BAHAHAHA!!!), doesnt support a standard uniform model for threads,
multiprocessing, etc...  Splines in X?  24-bit color for under $5,000?
These are NOT things you find in the UNIX world.  Besides, if UNIX was
so great, why did NeXT choose MACH instead? :->  I didnt see them jumping
the X bandwagon either, which is the "open" standard for UNIX GUI.  SCO
UNIX runs over $1,000, NeXTstep in its most basic form is ~$1,000, and
Id expect Solaris to be priced likewise.  One uses the MOTIF GUI, one
the NeXTstep GUI, one the OpenLook GUI.  Each OS has a different API,
different behavior for the same calls, and a host of other incompatable
anomolies.

>Headlines:  "Microsoft *creates* market reality.  Film at 11."

Windows 3.1 and Macintosh are still the only systems selling at >1 million/yr.
NeXT may have the best engineered system out there, but with a small installled
base, low sales volume, small "aftermarket" business (ie no third party graphics
cards/accelerators, etc...) and other factors dont change the current market
reality that Microsoft is ALREADY the volume leader.  Toss in one (relatively)
low price, one standard API, and a GUI used by more users than MOTIF, OpenLook
and NeXTstep combined, and its not terribly evident to me that they will be
a minor player next year in the face of some form of UNIX.

>
>Std. disclaimers.
>
>
>jb
>
>
>
>
>--
>-- Jeff Bone ------------------------------------------------------------
>        NT...  Just say N0T.   Skate UN*X!   Standard disclaimer. 
>------------------------------------------------------- jbone@dell.com --
>                                                                       --

-Steve, a regular user of every common UNIX (as well as a few uncommon ones),
        Macintosh, Windows, Windows NT, VMS, NOS/VE, and a few homegrown OSs.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola)
Subject: Command-key combo for 'cancel'?
Reply-To: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 21:15:52 GMT

This may be real simple, but i can't seem to find an answer.

Is there a standard command-key for 'cancel'?  ie 'enter' usually is  
equivalent to hitting 'ok' or the equivalent on a panel.  Most panels  
have a 'cancel' option; is there a standard keyboard way of choosing  
it?  


--
-
Stefano Pagiola
Food Research Institute, Stanford University
spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (NeXTMail encouraged)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: ctm@ardi.com (Clifford T. Matthews)
Subject: Re: Spreadsheets (was Mesa vs. Appsoft)
Organization: ARDI
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 08:14:28 GMT

Dear Folks,

This is a general reply to David Gursky's message concerning the look
and feel of applications under emulators.

Currently Executor does not attempt to alter the look and feel of the
application running under Executor.  Doing so would be like colorization of
movies, it requires extra work and some people would like the results and
some people wouldn't.  Some people are against colorization on principle,
because the original director knew exactly what she/he was working with
and made her/his choices based on a deep understanding of the chosen
medium.  I personally don't see anything wrong with colorized movies per se;
some work better than others; to each his own.

Some companies are indeed trying to rework the interface of programs being
emulated, although none of those companies have public plans for releasing
software on the NeXT, and in fact, none of those companies currently have
a shipping product that's Macintosh binary-compatible (For those who follow
this sort of thing I'm talking about NuTek, Bawamba and Quorum).

However, I still maintain that for many people, running Excel under Executor
is an acceptable compromise.  But if you check out Executor and determine
that it's not for you, I take no offense, in fact I thank you for taking
your time to examine our product.

		--Cliff
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: andi@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Andi Krall)
Subject: Re: CD -> NeXT
Organization: Technical University Vienna
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 14:45:18 GMT

A small company is selling a device to connect CD players and audio
DAT recorders via optical and coaxial connector to the DSP port. They
also have all device drivers. You can contact Ernst Parth at

Adaptive Systems
Wohllebengasse 15
A-1040 Wien, Austria (Europa)
Tel.: (+43 1) 50 54 158
Fax.: (+43 1) 50 41 597

-- 
Andreas Krall, andi@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at
+431 58801/4477  fax +431 5057838
Technische Univ. Wien, Inst.f. Computersprachen E185/1
Argentinierstr.8/4, A-1040 Wien Austria
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: koelman@cuby.stc.nl (Ton Koelman)
Subject: Re: Where are the Philips monitors built?
Reply-To: koelman@stc.nato.int
Organization: SHAPE Technical Centre, NL
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 11:06:47 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.232230.25340@cube.handheld.com> jmd@cube.handheld.com  
(Jim De Arras) writes:
> In article <1992Sep5.163800.18684@tamsun.tamu.edu> lusty@lusty.tamu.edu  
(Lusty  
> Wench) writes:
> > In article <1992Aug30.153807.17981@cube.handheld.com>  
jmd@cube.handheld.com  
> (Jim De Arras) writes:
> > >
> > >He can't do anything about it, Philips TV's look just as bad.  It's  
an issue  
> of  
> > >phosphers.  Sony has the best, the best red in specific.
> > >
> > >Jim
> > 
> > Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.  Here you have a guy in
> > management who is not only open to suggestions but who is even
> > *anxious* to hear specific ways in which they can improve their 
> > product, and all you can do is say "forget it, you don't stand a 
> > chance".  I guess it's more fun to complain about why something 
> > is a piece of junk than it is to offer constructive suggestions 
> > on how it can be made better.
> > 
> > 
> > Lusty Wench
> 
> Perhaps I was too abrupt in my reply.  The difference between Sony and  
Philips'  
> colo[u]r CRTs is historic, and a matter of pride to BOTH companies.    
Philips  
> thinks their phospers look better than Sony's. 

I see! Philips employees are color blind....

--
Ton Koelman   e-mail: koelman@stc.nato.int (NeXT Mail Welcome!)
SHAPE Technical Centre, P.O. Box 174, 2501 CD  The Hague
The Netherlands  (voice: 31-70-3142429, fax: 31-70-3142111)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: brad%raven@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca  (Brad Nelson)
Subject: Re: more on why NeXT has not earned much credibility
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 04:28:17 GMT

In article <92Sep16.000354.17602@acs.ucalgary.ca> bstone@acs.ucalgary.ca  
(Blake Stone) writes:
> > 1) Officially, 3.0 is NOT YET SHIPPING.  They said `it is
> >    possible that some people got early copies, but we are not
> >    shipping until later this week.'  In other words, certain
> >    high-profile customers got their copies special to give the
> >    appearance of 3.0 shipping.
> 
> Hello?  This has GOT to be wrong.  Virtually everyone [ ... ]

It *IS* wrong, along with most of the rest of Crispin's post.

> The University of Alberta has received at least 30 copies for
> students, staff etc... not just campus consultants.

U of A got >100 copies on about Sep 9th, one of which was mine,
ordered with the drive bundle in June.  I've had the drive
for a month.
 
> NeXT delivered with an acceptable delay.  Having to run an
> additional beta period for a major product, causing a two month
> delay in shipping, is not cause for concern.  If anything, it is
> unusually prompt.  Compare Mac System 7.

There are lots more comparisons like that.  NeXT is one of the
better companies I've dealt with in this respect.  Find me one
company, anywhere, that has delivered a major OS release exactly
on time.  Next was ~2 months late with this one, which is *MUCH*
better than the industry as a whole does.

-Brad        brad%raven@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: chris@dibbler.uwaterloo.CA (Chris Godsil)
Subject: TeX, postcript and laserwriters
Keywords: TeX, postcript and laserwriters
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13:19:50 GMT

I have a mono Turbo running System 2.2 hooked up to an Apple laserwriter and in  
general everything is working fine.  However when I print a TeX document  
containing postscript diagrams, the diagrams are not printed.  The rest of the  
documents prints as expected and the postscript files themselves can be printed  
without problems, from Preview for example.

Any suggestions?
From: wierda@ltb.ltb.bso.nl (Gerben Wierda)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: NT: please define vapor.
Date: 11 Sep 92 08:04:48 GMT
Organization: BSO/LT, Baarn, The Netherlands

In <1992Sep10.231139.3436@cbnewse.cb.att.com> cafe@cbnewse.cb.att.com (richard.dib) writes:

>There is no doubt that NeXTStep is a lot better than NT.  That does not
>mean that NeXTStep is going to sell more than NT.  First, NT is cheaper.
>If you buy the pre-release for $69.00 you get a free upgrade.  Second,
>NT will be running in more platforms than NeXTStep (in the near future).  
>Third, NT has the applications that NeXTStep still does not have.

I don't see a NT yet, let alone one that has applications. What I did see was
the alpha release of some hidden kernel and services and the windows program
manager and a DOS emulation on top. Plus some small debugging apps like memory
scanners. The latter made me very cautious about the availability of NT. If
they need those, they won't get it out in a very usable form before end 93.
(Besides, the kernel with the Windows GUI and some servioces like printer
drivers etc toook up 22MB on a MIPS4000 system this spring and that makes it
something that will need very much more horsepower)

The fact that I can run DOS or windows3.1 (which is DOS also) under NT doesn't
make those apps NT apps. I can run those under SOftPC on a Sun, a Mac, etc.
and of course a NeXT.

>I might buy NeXTStep for my PC depending on the price.  I already bought NT
>(for $69.00 how couldn't I?), and it does not seem VAPOR-WARE to me.  
>I know more than 30 people at work that already bought NT.  I only know
>two people that use NeXT at work.

The issue here is: What can I do with NT now? Mainly use DOS. And develop (but
not as smooth as on a NeXT). This is the smartest thing I have seen so far in
the software industry: sell a system for $69 that is not complete and create a
"market" in figures just because of that. NeXT should sell NS/486 licenses for
$10 and let people pay for "media" when the stuff is shipped.

I really admire the sales department of Microsoft.

-- 
wierda@ltb.bso.nl (Gerben Wierda) || I speak for myself and not for my employer.
(+31) 2154 84415/(+31) 35 833539  || Support the League for Programming Freedom!
	"If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there."
	(Almost from) Lewis Carroll, "Alice in Wonderland".
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: fletcher@socrates.umd.edu (Charles Fletcher)
Subject: TELNET->Kermit; Need help
Keywords: telnet, kermit, PeeCee
Organization: University of Maryland University College
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:19:38 GMT

I have Telnet running on some PCs which are network to a NeXT. If
I access the modem connected to the NeXT using kermit(5A 165) from the
NeXT, everything works fine (of course). However, if I run Telnet from
a PC to login to the NeXT then run kermit there is a problem (of course).
The modem no longer respons. It appears to not be getting the end of line.
For example, if I type 'at'<RETURN> I do not get OK, but instead the cursor
jumps down one line below where it is (ie, it does not return to the beginning
of the next line) and there is no response from the modem. No command
I have used (atdt, etc) has worked.

Has anyone seen anything like this or know what may be causing it and\or
how to fix it.

Thanks in advance,

Charlie



-- 
	NeXTMail to:		|	...to confer, converse, and 
	charlie@technosci.com	|	otherwise hobnob with my    
				|	brother wizards.
From: sowa@amdew.llnl.gov (Erik C. Sowa)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: tekton4tek submitted to sonata
Date: 14 Sep 92 18:46:54 GMT
Organization: LLNL Chemistry and Materials Science
In-reply-to: arrigo@cube.sublink.org's message of 12 Sep 92 13:19:06 GMT

>>>>> "Arrigo" == Arrigo Benedetti <arrigo@cube.sublink.org> writes:

Arrigo> In article <SOWA.92Sep9122949@amdew.llnl.gov>
Arrigo> sowa@amdew.llnl.gov (Erik C.  Sowa) writes:

> I have uploaded the file tekton4tex.tar.Z to the submissions directory
> on sonata.cc.purdue.edu. It contains files that enable the use of
> Adobe's Tekton font with the NeXT's TeX implementation, or any

Arrigo> Could you please tell us more about this font? As it name implies, I
Arrigo> presume it has been designed by Adobe to work with TeX.

No, it's not a TeX font. It's a postscript font with an informal look.
You most certainly do not want to set formulae in Tekton. According to
Steve Jobs :-), it looks good on slides.

--
erik sowa (sowa@amdew.llnl.gov)
From: cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Charles William Swiger)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Hard Drive problems (?)
Date: 12 Sep 92 19:20:55 GMT
	<878@rtbrain.rightbrain.com>
Organization: Senior, Chemistry, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.next.misc: 10-Sep-92 Re: Hard Drive
problems (?) Glenn Reid@rightbrain.co (1001)

>I have ear plugs in my ears as I type this.  The drive on my NeXTstation
>has been sounding like brake pads on metal for many weeks, and it's driving
>me nuts.  I'm about to have it serviced, except that I don't want to let
>go of my machine long enough to do whatever it takes to fix it :-(  It's
>a 400Mb drive, for what it's worth.

It's very likely that the bearings inside the drive are going.  (The
bearings are one of the primary causes of hard drive failure.)  It's
likely that you'll need to replace the drive soon; I don't think that a
computer repair store would even try to fix it.  If you're under
warrenty, the drive manufacturer will probably replace the drive rather
than attempting repair.

I'd also suggest that you start being enthusiastic about doing system
dumps.  Your disk drive is in the "armed and dangerous" category.

Good luck,

-Chuck

+---------------------------------------------+
|  Charles William Swiger -- a victim of CMU  | All the world's a stage,
|   AMS & normal mail: cs4w+@andrew.cmu.edu   | And we are merely players,
|    NeXTmail: <temporarily out of order>     | Performers and portrayers....
+---------------------------------------------+          -- RUSH, "Limelight"
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: jbone@splat.dell.com (Jeff Bone)
Subject: Re: NT: please define vapor.
Organization: Dell Computer Co
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:26:29 GMT

I hate to engage *again*, but...

waltrip@capd.jhuapl.edu writes:
>
>	And, of course, we should note, Steve, that porting NeXTSTEP to NT
>	would permit it to run on the DEC ALPHA 8^)
>

Okay, goal:  get NeXTStep on Alpha.
Choices:  port to NT microkernel, reworking the bowels of the whole env. i
                                   OR
          port the Mach microkernel (relateively straightforward)
          (this assumes that NeXT is working to get the Mach 3.0 mk
           integrated in their env...  though even the monolithic
           kernel should be an easy port.)

Now, why would you go and do a boneheaded, expensive, and time-consuming
thing like ripping out the existing microkernel and reworking all the
lower-level interfaces in NeXTStep, rather than go and port a relatively
portable kernel?  If they went to NT, they wouldn't have the benefit of
visibility to kernel internals, and any time they needed information on
same they'd have to interface -w- Microsoft to get it!

Just wanting to be on Alpha is a *bad* reason to put NeXTStep on NT.
In fact, there is *nothing* that NeXT can gain by porting to NT that
can't be gained cheaper/faster/better by remaining with their own
kernel architecture, *EXCEPT* the supposed market advantage of being
able to say they're on NT.  Repeat:  the *only* reason to port NeXTStep
to NT is to *be* on NT.


'nuf from me.  Standard Disclaimers.


jb



--
-- Jeff Bone ------------------------------------------------------------
         NT...  Just say N0T.  (Viva UN*X!)  Standard disclaimer. 
------------------------------------------------------- jbone@dell.com --
                                                                       --
Xref: sparky comp.sys.next.misc:19589 comp.sys.next.software:1580
From: trivedi@speedy.acns.nwu.edu (Kam Trivedi)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.software
Subject: Workspace 3.0 compress feature WARNING
Summary: WM3.0 compress deletes files with no recovery
Keywords: Workspace 3.0 compress
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:59:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Sep14.145938.29563
Followup-To: comp.sys.next.software
Organization: Black Bag Midwest

The Workspace Manager in 3.0 has a compress feature.
You can even compress entire directories.
The WM seems to opitimize disk space usage by deleting compressed
subdirectories and files.

A major problem with this scheme is that when you decide to stop the
compress operation through the Processes panel, WM stops the operation
and...YES YOU GUESSED IT, does not seem to recover the files it deleted.

I hope I'm missing something...ie like it puts these files in the
recycler?

Kam

PS: back to Michael's Opener app.
-- 
Kamlesh Trivedi - My opinions not my employer's - trivedi@speedy.acns.nwu.edu
"Reality is the only word in the English that should always be used in quotes"
                                                                      MLWTTKK
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: fletcher@socrates.umd.edu (Charles Fletcher)
Subject: Printing (HP) "binary" files
Keywords: printing, HP LaserJet
Organization: University of Maryland University College
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 02:35:31 GMT


I have an HP LaserJet IIP with PS cartridge connected to one of the
serial ports of a NeXTstation. I would like to try to print HP graphic
files, but the NeXT spooler (lpr) will not except "binary" files. Is
there any way to pass binary file through to the printer?

Thanks in advance for the help,

Charlie



-- 
	NeXTMail to:		|	...to confer, converse, and 
	charlie@technosci.com	|	otherwise hobnob with my    
				|	brother wizards.	    

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc,comp.sys.next.hardware
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: Color 17" vs 21": which is better?
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 05:01:21 GMT

In article <Bu2KEx.1yq@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> asd@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Kareth) writes:
>As I'm looking to upgrade (hopefully) soon to a Color Turbo, I'm
>wondering which is better, the 17" or the 21" screen?  I know this has
>been hashed about before, so just email me. It's been awhile since I
>saw anythhing about them.  Last I remembered the 17" was supposedly
>super sharp and a better display than the 21", but that was quite
>awhile back.

Now that NeXT has a Trinitron 17" colour (which won't work with the ND)
and an adb keyboard (which won't work with a Cube apparently), I would
wait and see what the new 17" monitor was like. The older one was not very
good.
 
[ ]

Philip McDunnough
philip@utstat.toronto.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: macg@trlabs.CA (Mike MacGregor)
Subject: Experiences with cubX: summary
Organization: TRLabs, Edmonton
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 16:08:52 GMT


Thanks to everyone who replied to my request for info on experiences with cubX.

Without exception, the replies I received were very positive.  Most replies
included comments to the effect that the server is quite fast.  Support is also
a strong point.  The most interesting feature of the package IMHO is that it
allows you to run two visually-separate screens; you switch between them
by sliding the cursor to the edge of the current screen.  That is, there are two
virtual screens that you can flip between.

The North American distributor is: 

Interactive Technology, Inc
9610 Sunshine Court Ste 700
Beaverton, OR 97005
tel: 503-644-0111
fax: 503-644-8494
e-mail ITI@inttech.com


Other options:

Paul Poh has an X11R5 port for the Turbo Color ftp'able from
amethyst.tcs.tufts.edu.

Pencom's coXist:

Pencom Software
1-800-PENCOM-4
co-Xist_info@pencom.com
(I don't have the rest of the stats for these folks)

White Pine Software's eXodus:

White Pine Software
40 Simon St.
Suite 201
Nashua, NH 03060-3043
tel:603-886-9050
fax:603-886-9051
WHITEPINE@AppleLink.Apple.Com

Thanks again to:

coyote!kris@gamb.fdn.org Christophe Janot
ebhanson@StarConn.com (E. B. Hanson)
ed@talus.mipt.su (Erik Dasque)
MMAYER@UCI  Meinhard E. Mayer
ppoh@amethyst.tcs.tufts.edu
russ@Athena.MIT.EDU
S.A.McIntyre@durham.ac.uk S A McIntyre
tpugh@oce.orst.edu (Tim Pugh)

And to:

claire@cubx.oleane.com (Claire Normand)
eric@cubx.oleane.com (Eric de la Tribouille)

Regards,
Mike MacGregor

-- 
uucp: macg@trlabs.CA   Voice: (403) 440-7252   Mike MacGregor, TRLabs
                       FAX:   (403) 463-3010   #200,  4245 - 97 St.,
                                               Edmonton AB, T6E 5Y7
          Packet switching ?  For video ?  You must be kidding ...
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc
From: smb3u@kiptron.psyc.virginia.edu (Steven M. Boker)
Subject: Re: Info on getting 3.0 and CD-ROM player (was: Re: CD-ROM question, NeXT customer support gripe)
Organization: University of Virginia, Department of Psychology
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 18:51:04 GMT

In article <15331@umd5.umd.edu> bchin@terminus.umd.edu (Bill Chin) writes:
>
>Maybe there should be a distributed object or speaker/listener app that
>connects to next.com and one can call up the info electronically.
>Kinda like the telephone banking services but using computers.
>Just a thought...
>

What a great thought, Bill.  Someone at NeXT should listen to this one.
They would easily save enough phone operator time to pay for the development
and equipment, and they could really _milk_ it as a public relations
device.  Probably get free publicity in some of the trade rags too.
Great idea, Bill.

Steve

-- 
 #====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#
 #  Steven M. Boker            #          "Two's bifurcation           #
 #  boker@virginia.edu         #           but three's chaotic"        #
 #====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#====#
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.misc