HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rsilvers@nynexst.com (Rob Silvers)
Subject: Re: Biopace Sprockets?
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 13:49:15 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.093625.9287@mr.med.ge.com> hinz@picard.med.ge.com (David Hinz Mfg 4-6987) writes:
>A few years back, there were some sprockets out called Biopace, I believe.
>The idea was that they were elliptical, rather than round, to make pedalling
>forces more even or something.  Are these still available anywhere, and are
>they any good, or just some marketing BS?
>
>Dave Hinz  -  Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's.  Obviously.
>hinzd@picard.med.ge.com


	The general thought is that they are BS.  The proper
riding technique, at least for excersise,  is to pedal at a
high rpm - say 90.  Biopace does not feel smooth at this speed.
It may have some value for beginners on mountain bikes pedaling
at say 50-60 rpm, but this is a bad habit to get into.  My last
bike had them, my new bike does not.  I like round ones better.
Also, you won't find one Tour De France racer using them.

					--Rob.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: shannt@vccnw01.its.rpi.edu (Thomas G. Shannon)
Subject: seating tires
Keywords: tire
Reply-To: shannt@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 17:23:33 GMT

Hi there, 

I have a problem.  I recently had the joyous opportunity to replace my front tire(old one died), and I attempted to install a nifty-neat-o kevlar bead tire(I believe made by specialized).  I stuggled valiantly for what seemed like hours (15 min.) to put it on and after much sweating (it was hot) I got it on.  To make a boring story short does anyone have any clever trick to seat the bead evenly; mine is currently bulging, and if I inflate it too much it hops off the rim.

Thanks,

Pat Shannon

ps  !!DON'T PANIC!!
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: iba@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Wayne Iba)
Subject: 5 and ultra-6 speed spacing (more questions)
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 06:02:32 GMT


Sorry for my confusion.  I've been out spraying clear-coat and my 
mind is a bit fuzzy.

Just to clarify my earlier questions:  I am talking about 126mm
spacing between drop-outs.  I would like to use the 6mm on the left
side to reduce the amount of skew to the dish (Oh no, I'm not saying
it will or will-not ride better).

Can I use six cogs on a an original 5-speed freewheel?
If so, can these cogs be obtained at most good bike shops?

Sorry to anyone who already answered these questions during a response
to my first query; my news server isn't giving me current articles.

--wayne (iba@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov)
From: vinson@shiva.seas.upenn.edu (Jack Vinson)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: MTB:  How to not trash the rear derailleur?
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:35:09 GMT
Organization: The University of Pennsylvania

<BtwpoB.Dx2@acsu.buffalo.edu> writes this in article camlau@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu
>So, how are your derailleurs trashed?  Do they get trashed from getting
>the chain jammed in it?  Or are they getting trashed from rocks and
>sticks that get caught in the spokes?
>I am a bit curious since I have never trashed a derailleur even though
>I have gone through more than my share of freewheels and rear axles.

Oops, forgot that part.  I'm sure I hit way too many rocks, trees and other
"high density" objects, but the bike and I are usually going too hard to
stop and take a look at what we've done to each other -- unless, of course,
the trail wants me to stop.  

For the most part I don't send the derailleur into the spokes.  I do shift
a lot, as seems to be the case in mountain biking.  The freewheel gets
roasted riding in the mud, and probably too much shifting.  The last one went
when I spent an afternoon crossing a creek -- seized up the freewheel
mechanism.  The others have just gotten worn from too much use.



Jack Vinson			vinson@shiva.seas.upenn.edu     
When the justice system is for "just us" we are in trouble!
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: hinz@picard.med.ge.com (David Hinz Mfg 4-6987)
Subject: Biopace Sprockets?
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Magnetic Resonance
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 09:36:25 GMT

A few years back, there were some sprockets out called Biopace, I believe.
The idea was that they were elliptical, rather than round, to make pedalling
forces more even or something.  Are these still available anywhere, and are
they any good, or just some marketing BS?


--

Dave Hinz  -  Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's.  Obviously.
hinzd@picard.med.ge.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: dak@ferrari.mst6.lanl.gov (Dave Korzekwa)
Subject: Re: Summ. of Frame Materials for Review
Organization: Los Alamos National Lab, Group MST-6
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 03:38:16 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.140524.3264@titan.ksc.nasa.gov> severn@titan.ksc.nasa.gov (Dave Severn) writes:
>This is the summary of information I received on frame materials. I hope it
>helps others to clear the mystery from trying to select a material for your new
... stuff deleted about Columbus tube sets...

>	Columbus EL: This tubeset uses a different starting alloy called
>			Nivachrome, a niobium-vanadium-chromium alloy, which is 
>			much stiffer that Cyclex. This tubeset is typically
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I have to question this statement.  Since all of these "alloys" are
various grades of rather low alloy steel, the elastic modulus
("stiffness") is not going to vary by more than a couple of percent.
Things like aluminum alloys, titanium, composites, etc.  have quite
different moduli, which is why we started seeing things like very thin
oversized tubes.

Just my $.02 -- an informative article otherwise.  (I'm a
metallurgist, I can't help myself :-)

Dave Korzekwa
Los Alamos National Laboratory
dak@mustang.mst6.lanl.gov
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: do dishless wheels ride differently?
Keywords: wheel, dish
Date: 25 Aug 92 18:11:08 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <71629@apple.Apple.COM> ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House) writes:
>
>Am I imagining things, or is it possible that having nearly identical
>tension in the spokes on both sides of a wheel would make it behave differ-
>ently from a wheel with substantially higher-tensioned spokes on one side --
>to a degree I could detect?

Yep, it's your imagination. While the tension on the spokes is
different, the loadings on the rim are the same.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: Info on Shimano600 brk/gearlever in 1 / Advice on Centurion Super Elite
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 13:04:30 GMT

d7hansl@dtek.chalmers.se (Hans Lindberg) writes:
>Hi!
>Have anyone of you out there got the Shimano 600 breaklever-
>and-gearshift-lever-in-one stuff on your bike, or have you tried it,
>or do you have some info on it? Does anyone know of any plans of making
>it available for normal, more medium level equip kits? Can we plan on
>finding maybe a 7 shift Shimano 500 version of it within foreseable 
>future? Ive been waiting to long now for innovations for roadbikes.

This year there is a 105 version of STI.  Don't know about Shimano 500
but I wouldn't expect it anytime soon.
-Terry
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Summ. of Frame Materials for Review
Date: 30 Aug 92 06:05:02 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Aug29.205438.22129@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) writes:
>
>Indeed, an SL frame will most certainly be more rigid than a 753,
>Prestige Ultra Light, or EL (not oversize) frame of the same geometry.
>An SP frame will be stiffer than an SL frame.  A bike built from seamed
>mild steel tubing of the same OD but heavier walls will be even stiffer.
>Steel is steel as far as stiffness is concerned.  TSX, SLX, Genius, and
>Tange Concept tubes have uneven wall thicknesses, which in some of these
>tube sets will result in anisotropic stiffness, and in any case will
>affect their specific stiffness (i.e. the stiffness to weight ratio).

I _have_ owned two bikes of almost identical geometries. One was a 57 cm
and the other a 58 cm. They were both Peugeots. They both had Nervex
lugs. They were both of the same tubing diameter.

The smaller and supposely, therefore, stiffer was built of french
bicycle tubing (mild steel) and weighed a full pound more
than the other, larger and supposedly more flexible Reynold's 531
frame.

The forks were identical add-ons (so I could use close reach brakes)
and all of the equipment was similar DuraAce. The wheels on both were
the _same_ wheelset.

Essentially the _only_ difference between the two bikes was the tubing.

The mild steel tubing bike rode very nicely on flat ground, but
as soon as you got it into high speed manuvering it would whip
all over the place. A fast downhill required you to place your
leg against the toptube to prevent the bike from steering
all over the place from frame flex.

The 531 bike, which I still have is so ridgid that it will knock
your teeth out if you don't use compliant tires. There is no
give in the frame at all except for some stay flex on large
bumps.

All of this theory sounds pretty good but I have this nagging
feeling that engineers don't design better alloys for fun. Nor
do bicycle manufacturers build bikes of these alloys as a
marketing ploy. I'm quite sure that people who have ridden
Cromor frames and then their identical SL brethren can tell
you that they can tell the difference. Is this brainwashing?

>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner)
Subject: Poorly Hung
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 15:43:31 GMT

I've got a year old Davidson Impulse with Ultegra components.  Some time
after receiving it, I noticed that the front derailleur was rubbing against
the seat tube when shifted onto the small ring.  This had worn through the
paint and to the metal.  I brought it back to the shop, and they eventually
managed to rig something which keeps (kept?) it off the tube.  The problem
is that there is some corrosion around the area, and some "cancer" under
the paint nearby.  The dealer says that the hanger was improperly hung.  He
indicated that he would send the frame back to Seattle this winter, and
that Davidson would fix it.  I'm pretty sure that he didn't call them and
check if they would really do it, though, and I'd be surprised that a frame
built by a supposedly high-quality shop would make such an error.

I'm going on vacation for 10 days in November, and I'll drop it off then.
The questions I have are:

1) If Davidson and my local shop argue about the blame, what can I do?
2) Could the cause of the problem be an incompatibility between the
frame and Ultegra?
3) Can I expect reasonably quick service from Davidson if this is their
fault?
4) I paid $100 extra for a fade paint job; what condition should I expect
the paint to be in when returned?

Thanks for any info!
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles
From: Bernd.Kischnick@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Bernd Kischnick)
Subject: Re: mavic electronic derailleurs
Summary: dump STI
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 17:24:44 GMT

Two riders of the ONCE team tested the protype,
Philippe Louviot in San Sebastian and Luxembourg,
Stephen Hodges in Tours.

The design is reported to be very simple,
and most important: it weighs only half as much as
the comparable Shimano STI set of components.

Electricity is supplied by a small battery hidden inside
the handlebar. Switches for shifting are placed behind the
brake levers and on top of the tribars. When the switch is pushed
(two possible directions), the derailleur is moved by a small motor.
If you hold on pushing, the chain passes one cog after the other.
The alignment of the derailleur to the cogs is provided by
mechanically indexed positions (on the derailleur, not on the lever :)

Stephen Hodges is quite convinced:
"The thing is very light, shifts softly and incredibly fast."

But the sealing of the prototype still needs improvement.
When another ONCE rider splashed water on Stephen Hodge's
derailleur, he was less than amused about the resulting shortcut.

-   Bernd.

urgent email to bernd.kischnik@cdc2.ifum.maschinenbau.uni-hannover.dbp.de


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: zeitler@esseye.si.com (David Zeitler)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Biopace Sprockets?
Date: 28 Aug 92 10:46:55 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Smiths Industries

In article <1992Aug27.093625.9287@mr.med.ge.com> hinz@picard.med.ge.com
(David Hinz Mfg 4-6987) writes:

>A few years back, there were some sprockets out called Biopace, I believe.
>The idea was that they were elliptical, rather than round, to make pedalling
>forces more even or something.  Are these still available anywhere, and are
>they any good, or just some marketing BS?
>
>Dave Hinz  -  Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's.  Obviously.
>hinzd@picard.med.ge.com

Pretty much hype. I gave them a try and got pretty much the same impression
others have, prefering round rings I can actually get a smooth cadence with.
The exception is my 'granny' gear. I still like the oval ring in the granny
position of my triple-crank. Since I seldom use this gear unless I'm pulling
hard on a steep hill ( at very low cadence obviously ) the spin factor
doesn't hurt me and it seems a bit easier on my knees.

---
Dave Zeitler				zeitler@si.com
Smith's Industries			Ph: (616)241-8168
Aerospace & Defense Systems Inc.	Fax: (616)241-7533
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: pauls@icecreambar.css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth)
Subject: Re: Poorly Hung
Reply-To: pauls@umich.edu
Organization: University of Michigan
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:46:06 GMT

Ken Lehner writes

| 1) If Davidson and my local shop argue about the blame, what can I do?

If the shop makes you an offer, they have to keep it.  It's not your  
problem that Davidson may argue about the warranty if your shop told you  
that it would be fixed for free.

| 2) Could the cause of the problem be an incompatibility between the
| frame and Ultegra?

Some front derailleur hangers seem to work better with campy derailleurs  
than with Shimano.  I've seen that problem before, where the front  
derailleur bottoms out on the frame.  If you tried a Campy, or even a  
SunTour one, you might find that the do not bottom out.

| 3) Can I expect reasonably quick service from Davidson if this is their
| fault?

"Reasonable" can have many definitions.  Several months is probably not  
"unreasonable" from a manufacturer's perspective.  It is undoubtedly  
unreasonable to a rider.  Be prepared to wait.  (And be prepared to piss  
and whine about how long it's taking).

| 4) I paid $100 extra for a fade paint job; what condition should I  
expect
| the paint to be in when returned?

Fully repainted.  There's no real way to restore a professional paint job  
after you've taken a torch back to the frame.  Sandblast/strip & repaint  
are the only options.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: dahls@fhydra.dnet.unit.no (Joern Yngve Dahl-Stamnes)
Subject: Re: *** CREAK FIX ***
Reply-To: dahls@fhydra.dnet.unit.no (Joern Yngve Dahl-Stamnes)
Organization: University of Trondheim, NORWAY
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 92 09:24:08 EDT

Thus spoke the keyboard of rpimente@es.com (Richard Pimentel):
>In article <jk6898.715410993@ehsn2.cen.uiuc.edu>, jk6898@ehsn2.cen.uiuc.edu (Joseph T Kavanagh) writes:
>|> shaft(very tightly mind you) and then used loc-tite on the bolt.
>					^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>	Yikes! Have you tried to remove the crank bolt since you used
>	loc-tite? My experience with loc-tite is that stuff REALLY works
>	and the one can actually strip out threads or break off bolt heads
>	trying to loosen loc-tite'd bolts. I would not recommend this to
>	anyone unless they never plan to pack their bottom bracket bearings
>	again.

I've been using loc-tite the headset on my road bike. Some months ago I
needed to tight the headset a bit. Yes, loc-tite work. It was impossible
to move the headset. But a gas-burner fix that. I use one which almost
all skiers use and heated up the headset a bit (about 15 seconds with
full power from the gas-burner, could still hold my hand on the headset),
and I could adjust it again. When the headset cools down, the loc-tite
will begin to work again, but not as good as before.

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+-+-+-+
* I went back to my mother,           * Joern Yngve Dahl-Stamnes           *
* I said, "I'm crazy ma, help me!"    * University of Trondheim            *
* She said, "I know how it feels son, * The Norwegian Institute of Tech.   *
* 'cause it runs in the family."      * Division of Physical Electronics   *
*       - The Who, Quadrophenia       * e-mail: dahls@fhydra.dnet.unit.no  *
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: warwick@wikkit.enet.dec.com ()
Subject: Re: Difference between Shimano RX100 and 105 components
Reply-To: warwick@wikkit.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 11:48:51 GMT


Just to toss in a further level of  confusion, my bike has
an RX100 groupset, but some of the components (e.g., the
brake calipers) are painted in the same way as the 105
components. 

Everything I've heard suggests that 105 and 100 are equivalent
apart from cosmetics.


Trevor Warwick
--------------
Telecommunications and Networks Engineering,
Digital Equipment Corporation, Reading, England.
Internet: warwick@marvin.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: fineman@kronos-arclan.arc.nasa.gov (Charles Fineman)
Subject: Re: do dishless wheels ride differently?
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:51:35 GMT

On Tue, 25 Aug 92 18:11:08 GMT, tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) said:

>In article <71629@apple.Apple.COM> ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House) writes:
>>
>>Am I imagining things, or is it possible that having nearly identical
>>tension in the spokes on both sides of a wheel would make it behave differ-
>>ently from a wheel with substantially higher-tensioned spokes on one side --
>>to a degree I could detect?

>Yep, it's your imagination. While the tension on the spokes is
>different, the loadings on the rim are the same.

Hmmm. Wouldn't make a difference when lateral forces are applied to
the wheel?

	Chuck
--
From: chrisv@carnival.lbl.gov (Chris Moll)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Summ. of Frame Materials for Review
Date: 31 Aug 1992 21:13:42 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory
Reply-To: chrisv@carnival.lbl.gov (Chris Moll)
NNTP-Posting-Host: carnival.lbl.gov

Thomas H. Kunich writes:
> I'm quite sure that people who have ridden
> Cromor frames and then their identical SL brethren can tell
> you that they can tell the difference.

I have, and I can't.  Sorry.

> Is this brainwashing?

I'm not sure whose brain is getting washed here.

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: praetzel@marconi.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel)
Subject: Re: HG Chain vs. Sedis ATB
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:26:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.134744.531@ee.rochester.edu> davis@ee.rochester.edu (Al Davis) writes:
>I have a Sachs freewheel.  Which works better with that?
  I have an Aries freewheel on my touring wheel.  It shift like _junk_ with
the Deore XT but I have to admit that the dropout may be bent.  It (13-26)
does shift a lot worse than the 13-32 hyperglide cogs I have.  It seems
pretty hesitant in its shifts and likes to catwalk ontop of cogs.  The
chain is a HG90 and the setup Deore XT STI (first generation).  But then
when I am commuting I don't care.  
  As for the freewheel; it is stamped steal.  When I look at the machined
Shimano cogs I have to prefer them because of obivous visual superiority.

>I now have a Shimano chain.  It is the original chain on the bike.  Still
>good after 8000 miles.  (Dura-Ace) If you get a Shimano chain the Dura-Ace
>chain is worth the extra money.  The others don't last.
  The local racers used to go thru DA chains on 7speed straight-block setups
and gave up on them.  They now use Sedis.  I toss my Sedis chains after
about 5,000 km.  The last one had 8,000 km on it with no measurable stretch
(on a ruler anyway).  But chains are cheaper than cogs and rings so I replace
them more often.
  - Eric 

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles
From: elr@trintex.uucp (Ed Ravin)
Subject: Re: Braze-on Question
Organization: Bike to Work?
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:42:56 GMT

In article <4eaX1J20hXu8M5hHh4@andrew.cmu.edu> "Chad R. Vizino"
<cv0q+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>I have an older, Fuji Royale touring bike that I am hauling out of the
>closet after many years of storage.  The bike is nice enough for my
>needs but does not have braze-ons for a water bottle cage.

I've got three cages mounted on my 1980 Fuji Royale, all with clips.
Yes, the clips are lousy, but if you want a low-tech option, here's how
to make it work --

   wrap the frame with electrical tape in the area where you will be
mounting the clips.  This protects the paint but more importantly,
makes the frame a little fatter, since the clips they sell these days
never seem to be able to tighten enough on regular frames.

   you can buy decent cages that work for both clip-on and braze-on.
Specialized makes a few, or you can go to the catalogs.  DON'T buy
the kind available at Sears or K-Mart -- they're cheap and will fall
apart eventually.

   sprinkle a little Loc-Tite or similiar onto the bolts holding the
cages on, since the little buggers have been known to loosen up.

-- 
Ed Ravin- elr@trintex.uucp| I like to think (and the sooner the better!)
  elr%trintex@uunet.uu.net| Of a cybernetic meadow where mammals and computers
           +1-914-993-4737| Live together in mutually programming harmony
my opinions, nobody else's| Like pure water touching clear sky.  -R. Brautigan
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: M23231@mwvm.mitre.org
Subject: Re: Building a Bike Frame (from scratch)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 15:45:07 GMT

In article <9209011709.AA27620@suned1.Nswses.Navy.Mil>
jkb@suned1.Nswses.Navy.Mil (John K Bunk) writes:
 
>Has anyone ever built their own bicycle frame from scratch?  How much
>welding / brazing skills do you need?  Should I just forget about
>building my own frame unless I have megadollars equipment (rentals)
>and supplies?
>
>In my case, I was considering building my own recumbent bike frame.
>I thought building my own bike may be fun, and I would learn much
>along the way.
>
>Also, if any books or magazine articles exist on the subject of
>frame building, please let me know!
>
>Thanks (in advance),
>John
Good questions! I wish I knew the answers, because I was thinking the same thin
g. Recumbents are *sooooo* expensive. Anyway, all I can tell you is that there
is a book on building your own recumbent frame. It is called "Easy Plans Set"
which includes a 40 page book and blueprints. Order from:
Easy Racers, Inc.
Box 255
Freedom, CA 95019-0255
(408) 722-9797.
 
They also sell the Tour Easy Frameset at $1195, and
the complete Tour Easy bicycle at $1595
 
Good Luck, and let me know what you find out that is not posted here.
Thanks,
 
Jerry
 
Just my opinions--noone elses