From: mon@cray.com (Muriel Nelson)
Subject: Re: The Nurturing Network 1-800-TNN-4MOM
Date: 21 Aug 92 12:18:46 CDT

[LONG]
In article <1992Aug20.201657.10445@noao.edu> forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) writes:
>From article <91ayc5f@rpi.edu>, by cookc@aix.rpi.edu (rocker):
>> forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) writes:
>> 
>>>From article <92215.152601ADMN8647@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca>, by Linda Birmingham <ADMN8647@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca>:
>>>> 
>>>> While the majority of the quotes are Canadian, I am
>>>> sure Ms. Forgach if you did a little reading on the
>>>> topic you will find that feminist organizations
>>>> around the world have been lobbying and funding
>>>> such initiatives as you described above.  
>> 
>>>No, Linda.  They've been talking the talk, but they haven't been
>>>walking the walk.   Walk into ANY, and I mean ANY abortion alternative
>>>organization ANYWHERE, and you will not find even one pro-"choicer" among
>>>them.  It always has been and always will be the pro-lifers who provide any
>>>non-abortive help to pregnant women in trouble.
>> 
>> Then you are calling me a liar, Ms. Forgach.  
>
>Could be.  In your entire story below, you neglected to give any indication
>of even what YEAR it takes place.   Makes a big difference.  Movements mature.

Suzanne, this is uncalled for.  We both know that Cathi's kid
is just a tot.  How long ago _could_ it be?

>So tell me, was it a simple oversight, or a lie by ommission?  You also make it

The rocker is not a liar, Suzanne.  Could it be that you are
embarrassed for the failings of your own side, and taking it
out on Cathi?  I'm disappointed in you, Ms. Compassion for
Mothers in Need.

>clear that you _never_ actually asked an abortion alternative agency for help!
>You simply got into one 10 minute discussion with some Right-To-Life debators
>at a campus abortion debate.  Hardly the way to seriously seek prenatal aid,
>Cathi.
>
When one group of 'pro-life' folk had treated her so shabbily,
why on earth would Cathi go looking for more?

Gag me with a Forgach.
>
>> I have posted many
>> times that when _I_ was facing a crisis pregnancy, I went to a debate
>> that featured the president of the local RTL chapter in a large city.
>> I approached him, and other pro-"life" people after the debate, asking
>> about where I might obtain pregnancy help.  Since I had identified
>> myself as pro-choice, they were all quite eager to do their Good Deed
>> for the day and "talk me out of getting an abortion".  Fairly
>> ridiculous, as I was about five months at the time and showing quite
>> a bit.  When I told them I had no intention of having an abortion,
>> they eagerly began telling me about adoption agencies in the area.
>> When I informed them that I was most certainly NOT considering adoption,
>> they completely lost interest, to the point of wandering away.  When
>> I asked again about pregnancy help (after following them), the most
>> concrete answer I received was "Well, you might try your church."
>> They didn't bother to ask if I attended church, and they ignored me
>> thereafter.
>
>
>You might have tried the yellow pages for the local abortion altnerative
>agencies.  Surely you use yellow pages all the time.   Debators at a campus
>debate is weird place to look for prenatal help.   I think you went with a
>chip on your shoulder already.   Looking for a fight.
>
A posture you're _real_ familiar with, dear.  Why can't
you accept rocker's word that she sought help and was
turned away?
> 
>> I must say, I was a bit stricken by this.  A member of NOW noticed
>> me standing by myself, 
>
>Obviously Cathi, she'd already eavesdropped on your entire conversation.
>She approached you entirely aware of what had just gone on and decided to
>turn the situation to her advantage - recruiting you into activism.
>
>She played you like a fiddle, Cathi.
>
You're assuming a lot here, Suzanne.  I don't think Cathi
is nearly that stupid.  Besides, I've never heard you
accuse NOW of recruiting members by helping mothers in
need with the necessities to choose to carry to term before.
Quite the opposite.  Make up your uh, mind.
>
>
>> and walked up and congratulated me on my
>> pregnancy.  I began confiding in her about the trouble I was having,
>> and was soon surrounded by a sympathetic crowd of feminists.  One
>> quickly offered baby furniture and clothes, others began telling me
>> about medical care available.  They offered phone numbers and advice.
>> One NOW member even bent the rules of a local congressman's phone
>> bank to allow me to make the calls from home after my child was born, 
>> thus providing me with a crucial source of income at a time when I
>> was unable to work elsewhere.  All the local NOW members I met, from
>> grandmothers to lesbians, were a constant source of support to me
>> at a difficult time.  Not a single one ever questioned my decision
>> to give birth.
>
>Not to your face, of course not, but many of them had aborted their own
>children under even less difficult circumstances.
>
Their own reproductive history has little to do with the
quality of support they offer to other women, Suzanne.
Is this usual Christian behavior, impugning the motives
of folk you don't even know?
>
>> I have questioned Bill Overpeck and others who say they are associated
>> with crisis-type pregnancy centers, none of them address the common
>> problems that I and many other women face during our pregnancies.
>
>The Nurturing Network addresses ALL of them.  All of the common problems
>and all of the unique problems.  Other agencies do as well.  Write to me 
>and I will give you agencies that do.
>
I don't think rocker needs prenatal care at the moment.
Unless she's been keepin' secrets.
>
>> The number one problem is the exorbitant cost of prenatal care and
>> giving birth.  (One local hospital told me on the phone "We require a
>> deposit of $2300. cash before you enter the ninth month, or we will
>> be unable to admit you."  In an irritable mood that day, I replied
>> "So if I don't cough up the cash, I can have the baby on the sidewalk
>> for all you care."  She answered "Oh, we don't say THAT....".  Yes
>> you do, you just use nicer words.)  The main "services" these places
>> seem to offer is a place to stay during pregnancy and adoption
>> referrals.  I would hazard a guess that this is not what most women
>> want or need.
>
>The Nurturing Network will provide you all this, Cathi, for your prenatal
>care AND your delivery.   That was _why_ I posted about them.  1-800-TNN-4MOM
>will put you in touch with a local doctor, in YOUR TOWN, who regularly donates
>his services to such women.
>
I _hope_ this service is universally available.  Gee, I 
got prenatal and delivery on my first one for $250.  
Good old days, and all that.
> 
>> I had always been pro-choice, _this_ experience made me an activist.
>
>So that more women would be able to kill their babies that YOUR OWN baby was
>too precious to kill.  Mighty big of you, Cathi.  Why don't you just work
>for an abortion alternative center instead, filling in any gaps where you
>see them lacking instead.
>
We'll leave that to you, Suzanne.  Sometimes when
a woman takes the very difficult route of carrying
a badly-timed or threatened pregnancy to term, and
lives with all the consequences, she's very grateful
that she did so by choice, not by force, and wants
to see that no other woman ever faces that situation
without a choice.
>
>>>> The
>>>> main difference is that the feminist groups want
>>>> to see this provided to all women in society, not
>>>> just those able to meet the requirements of
>>>> organizations that may or may not be operating
>>>> in their area.
>> 
>> Amen.
>
>Being simply a woman in need does not appear to be too stringent a requirement
>at all.
>
>
Please.  Are you sure that the network of support is
in place for all women in America?  If so, you can
get started on the rest of the world.  If you'd like to
take care of hunger and clean water while you're about
it, I'll send a donation.  See you in 20 years.

muriel
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