HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith)
Subject: Re:  92 in rabreview
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 93 20:36:28 GMT


I read one book in 1992.  It was a very good book, but the title and
the author's name escape me at the moment.  I highly recommend it.

I'm now searching for a book to read in 1993.  I want to start soon
so I'll finish this year.




William Sburgfort Smith
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mackey@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lynda Mackey)
Subject: Nancy Drew Fans?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:32:32 GMT

Any Nancy Drew fans out there? I am especially interested in the really
old versions, written before the 1959 revisions/condensations. If you're
a fan and would like to correspond, send e-mail to mackey@magnus.acs.
                                                   ohio-state.edu

Does anyone know of a Nancy Drew fan club (for adults)? I've heard there
is one.

I'm also looking to buy Nancy Drew books, games, and related items if
anyone has any hot tips on where to find 'em.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: dawn@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Dawn Owens-Nicholson)
Subject: Sequel to THE FAR PAVILIONS?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 04:35:13 GMT

Hi!

My grandfather is looking for a book which is supposed to be a
sequel to The Far Pavilions by M.M. Kaye.  In the inside cover of
his book, it says something about the "next volume," but I can't
find out anything by looking through Books in Print.  Could it be
that at one time, the Far Pavilions was issued in a 2-volume set,
and he has only	the first volume?  Or is it that the sequel has a
different title?  Or is it that a sequel was never written?

Thanks for any help you can give.

Dawn Owens-Nicholson
From: hoosiers@carson.u.washington.edu (Mary Loveless)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: ABFOU (WAS Re: Abulafia
Date: 5 Jan 1993 17:11:59 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

In article <1iakqqINNoae@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>Mary Loveless writes:
>
>	I no longer have _Lucia in London_, or _The Worshipful Lucia_.  
>	I am convinced that in one of these, someone has a spirit guide 
>	named Abulafia.  Perhaps a more concentrated effort to replace 
>	the missing volumes?
>
>Close, but no cigar. You're thinking of Daisy Quantock's control, ABFOU.
>You know, the one who is almost always unintelligible (Arabic?) but who
>occasionally blurts out
>
>	"Lucia is a snob."
>
>*LUCIA IN LONDON*.
>
>							RABworm					
>
Thanks!  This is the kind of thing that haunts my waking hours, until I
know the answer.  _Lucia in London_ is the one where the museum burns down
and there's a dispute about Queen Charlotte's mitten?

 Mary Loveless 
hoosiers@carson.u.washington.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All of my opinions are self-righteously my own and **certainly** have
nothing to do with the University of Washington.
*"Too much of a good thing can be *wonderful*."  Mae West
*"I wonder how I'd look in *Madonna's* underwear."  Zippy the Pinhead
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: another Atlanta rabfest
Date: 11 Jan 93 15:43:25 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <79633@hydra.gatech.EDU> barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard) writes:

>Meg and I, envious of the SF boating jaunt, had our own little rabfest again
>today...

I'm jealous.  Are there any r.a.b.bers in the Detroit area?  I'm going to
be moving there in June, and I'm trying to find some reason to get
excited.  Any good book stores?  Any fun folks?  Or is it truly an
industrial wasteland, and I may as well go stick my head in the oven?



-- 
The trick of reason is to get the imagination to seize the actual world --
if only from time to time.     -- Annie Dillard, "An American Childhood"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Homophobia (really not about  Homeschooling)
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 23:47:07 GMT

In article <C0Ln7H.LDw@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca> msmorris@watsci.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Morris) writes:
>Mike Godwin asks:
>  Should they be allowed to fire an employee if they discover he's Jewish?
>  What if they feel that Jews undermine their "flaming fundie image"?

>I think I've already said that they should be ``allowed'' to 
>do this, yes.

So they have the right to punish employees for freesdom of association, 
punishment that, if carried out generally enough, leads to starvation.

Sieg heil to you too, pal.

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rooney@cheshire.oxy.edu (Michael Sean Rooney)
Subject: Re: Paglia (was: Cross-Writing)
Keywords: sigh
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 12:21:26 GMT

In article <11JAN93.04075115@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:
>
>
>I'd respond to Seaneen's comments directly, but as he thinks I'm
>dishonest and inane, I'm sure he would consider my opinions as
>weighty as I do his.
>

	As I'm not entirely given to Zelenyesque dismissals, I hereby
retract any personal animosity towards Ms. Henderson.  I don't think
much of her stated opinions, especially in light of the above reinforcement
and its impoverished sense of trenchant flamage, but I try to take posts
on a case-by-case basis and cordially hope she does likewise.

Cordially,

Michael S. Rooney

"As a rule, what tempts a person is something that will hold him back 
 from doing his duty, but here the temptation is the ethical itself."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: Het Boys (was: Homophobia)
Organization: Clark University
Date: 9 JAN 93 23:24:08 GMT

Steve Dyer wrote:

>However, I think the oppressed are owed a considerable amount of rhetorical
>license.  You're free to disagree. 

Yup.

>The topic was the legitimacy of firing people because they happen to be gay,
>and codifying the inability to seek legal redress into a state constitution,
>and we end up arguing about how Heather is insulted because I called her
>brother a white Protestant het boy.  

I'm not at all insulted.  I just thought it was curious that you appear to be
against discrimination, yet you call people names based on their race,
religion, and sexual orientation.  But you've explained your reasoning, such
as it is, quite well.  

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: lew@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (lewis.h.mammel..jr)
Subject: Re: Same difference
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 00:19:47 GMT
Summary: Difference without distinction


In article <1ik82lINN4qb@morrow.stanford.edu>, francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
> All this talk of difference feminism has reminded me that I had promised
> to read *DIFFERENCE ENGINE* in 1992, and I did not. So, may I reopen
> discussion to a short thread on this book? Who wrote it, &c. It did
> occur to me that Ada Lovelace could herself be described as a difference
> engine in modern terms. So, do I still want to read it?

Well, I'm afraid you'll just have to take a D for the course.
I read it last summer, and was somewhat disappointed. It is
an intriguing idea, and there are plenty of topical themes subtley
being rammed down your throat, but those steam driven gears
never really manage to engage. 

The plot just sort of runs into the desert and evaporates. OK,
maybe it's SUPPOSED to, but it is frustrating to watch. The interest
in the box which is the focus of the plot is never really motivated.
There's finally a sentence explaining its significance, but it
involves a rather silly invocation of the halting problem and
doesn't really connect with anything that happened. Maybe it
was supposed to be Kafka-esque or something, but if so, it went
by me. 

One particular relating to the alternate reality idea which
sort of irked me was the toying with some neologisms: "streamline"
became "linestream" and "firestorm" became "stormfire". I've often
contemplated whether certain terms might be something different,
e.g. "broadcast" and "airport", and I've learned that it took a long
time for television to have "viewers", but these inversions don't
really work, do they? You could possibly justify "stormfire" on the
basis that it IS, after all, a fire, but "linestream" is just no good.

The nonfiction work which I think compares to this is The_Enigma,
which is about the life and work of Alan Turing. Here we have the
story of the actual emergence of cybernetics. The crude-to-our-minds
technology which was then the very latest produces a similar feel
to what it seems The_Difference_Engine is striving for. The
honest-to-god detail and quirky happenstances make it infinitely
more fascinating, though. If you're unfamiliar with the events
described, why prefer vaporous imaginings ?

There's room in the world for all of it, I guess.

Lew Mammel, Jr.
From: spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Child molestation & celibacy (was: Paul Johnson (was Paglia)
Date: 11 Jan 1993 20:52:15 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley -- ERL
NNTP-Posting-Host: zion.berkeley.edu

Jeff Davis wonders about child molestation by clergy:

> I'm sorry for the practice and the cover-up by the Church. 
> It's dismaying.  But, for the life of me, I can't fathom how 
> a vow of Chastity promotes such a practice.

I can certainly "fathom" how this could be true.

You take a bunch of guys who are selected for not being
that interested in sexual relations with adults, such
that they're willing to vow chastity.  You then put them
in a position of authority over lots of juveniles of
both genders.  

Could somebody describe a *better* arrangement for
promoting adult-child sex? 

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Books I Got For Xmas
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 12:40:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.051135.10065@athena.mit.edu> kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan) writes:

>	I would imagine that there are more 'writers' at this moment
>than at any other comparable time in history, and given that men have
>been in the majority in ages past, perhaps the criticism of a man
>being able to write from a woman's perspective is just a transitory
>and not wholly unexpected event.

The book that triggered the latest bout of discussion of this issue on the
WELL is Norman Rush's MATING. But the subject is at least as old as
Joyce's ULYSSES.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost
From: zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Text of CO2 and OR9
Date: 9 Jan 93 23:50:13 GMT
Organization: The Phallogocentric Cabal

In article <C0Lrnw.2E3@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca>
msmorris@watsci.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Morris) writes:

>                                  Saturday, the 9th of January, 1993
>
>Mikhail Zeleny writes:

MZ:
>>I like to think that no more than a commonsensical consideration of the
>>meaning of "slander", is required to rule that the promulgation of
>>accusations of scrofulousness is itself morally justifiable only in the
>>presence of a rational justification for itself.  Considering that,
>>despite my requests to do so, you have, up to this point, abjectly
>>failed to substantiate your charge of falsehood and immorality of my
>>moral assumptions, your continued vilification of my moral reasoning is,
>>by definition, no more than hypocritical slander.

MM:
>I should think rather that your own condemnation of acts of homosexual
>intercourse consitutes precisely such slander (as you define it), until
>you have actually established the correctness of your grounds for making
>the condemnation. Since your assertions about the moral nature and
>generative purpose of sex actually contradict what is the case with human
>nature, I would suggest that you have so far failed to establish your
>point. I have told you, Mikhail, I am willing to continue the argument
>at a later date. Not now.

The crucial difference between us, is that each time I said "I think X
is wrong", I gave reasons for saying so.  By contrast, your assertions
about the moral nature remain unsupported by anything more formidable
that your own personal authority, insofar as they purport to impugn
the truth of my claims, or establish "what is the case with human
nature".  Furthermore, as even you admit, your own efforts to come up
with a refutation have to this day failed to demonstrate a
contradiction in my arguments.

Continue the argument or not, as you will, but please abstain from
making groundless accusations, which in one fell swoop attempt to
trash not only my humble person, but also two and a half millenia of
rational moral thinking.

>                        Mike Morris
>               (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)


cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
"Les beaulx bastisseurs nouveaulx de pierres mortes ne sont escriptz
en mon livre de vie.  Je ne bastis que pierres vives: ce sont hommes."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: blaisec@sr.hp.com (Blaise Cirelli)
Subject: Re: malcom X
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:31:42 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.9 PL6]

I don't know about his speeches. But I've read The Autobiography of
Malcom X and it's a great book.
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Homophobia (really not about  Homeschooling)
Date: 12 Jan 93 20:38:35 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1993Jan7.194412.13548@PacBell.COM>, rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
> Spare us your doublethink (ObBooks :-)).  The Colorado
> amendment says nothing about "certain behaviors", behaviors
> that are, in any case, not usually relevant to one's ability
> to perform a job or rent an apartment.  What it does say is
> that people cannot seek legal redress for unfair
> discrimination in employment, housing or public accommodations,
> based on their sexual *orientation*, if they are homosexual or
> bisexual.  Thus, a lesbian virgin -- who has never exhibited
> any sexual behavior -- can be legally fired from her job for
> sticking up a k. d. lang poster in her cubicle.  Thus,

As could a heterosexual, if the employer felt like it.  Homosexuals
should have no special privilege that protects from being fired
just because they are homosexual -- and effectively, that's what
antidiscrimination laws do -- they make it tremendously expensive
for an employer to fire a member of a protected group, even for
cause.  Dozens of law suits have already been fired in California
under our new antidiscrimination law.  Do you think any sane
employer is going to fire a homosexual here, even with good cause,
without retaining an attorney first?

> heterosexuals -- the group with the "unfair advantage" of not
> being singled out for discrimination on this basis -- are
> nevertheless still protected from it.
> -- 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------

Except for the cities where the homsoexual fascist lobby had
gotten ordinances passed, heterosexuals are NOT protected from
being fired in Colorado as the law now stands.  If an ordinance
or statute were passed protecting heterosexuals, I think nearly
everyone would oppose it.  I certainly would.  We have enough
specially protected from ever being fired groups.  We don't need
more.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Legal theory, Homophobia, and the Bible
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:46:10 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.184309.5416@netcom.com> tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox) writes:

>	Once I thought that Dawkins' notion of a meme--introduced, I believe,
>in _The Selfish Gene_ some years ago-- was a metaphor, perhaps
>illuminating, perhaps misleading.  However, several years' experience on
>Usenet have led me to the conclusion that memetic transmission and infection
>are as real as any other kind.  

I'm surprised that you did not have this view from the start. I think that
if we can learn anything from the work of information theorists, it's that
there's no categorical distinction between the kind of information that's
transmitted by virus molecules and the kind transmitted by words.

>	I have no particular wisdom to offer on this subject (itself a 
>meme, of course) but can imagine that discussion of it *might* bring some
>interesting ideas forward.  In particular, is it possible or desirable for
>r.a.b. (and by extension, other groups) to defend itself from unwanted memes?
>Is there any way of establishing that a meme is in fact "unwanted"?  Also,
>what are the early warning signs of memetic infection?  And, what is the
>net.equivalent of lots of fluids, aspirin, and bed rest?

I promulgated Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies as an experiment in 
improving the Net immune system. The rule, which has achieved a certain
penetration into net.culture, goes like this:

Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies: As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the
probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.

My strategy was one of inoculation--to the extent that the Rule becomes
well-known, it helps participants in discussions resist the Hitler/Nazi
comparison meme. 

It seems to have worked so far in the text-focused medium of the Net;
I doubt it would be quite as effective in spoken discourse. After all,
in cyberspace no one can hear your meme.



--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: Paglia (was: Cross-Writing)
Organization: Clark University
Date: 7 JAN 93 05:33:43 GMT

I wrote:

>I think she's overstating in her typical Paglia furious-Italian manner. 
>                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 

Mark Taranto wrote:

>What do you mean by this? 

I don't have _Sex, Art, and American Culture_ at hand right now, but
somewhere in there she describes the conversational style of her family,
especially when they get excited (I think she talks about the frenzy that
ensues when bidding farewell after a family gathering).  Her description is
vivid and humorous, and reminded me of when we used to live in the Italian
section of Gravesend in Brooklyn, and once had everyone on the entire block
crowded around our house arguing over whether we'd be able to move our baby
grand piano up a particularly awkward flight of stairs.

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: gsmith@lauren.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Gene W. Smith)
Subject: Re: Cultural Appropriation and the New Age
Organization: IWR, University of Heidelberg, Germany
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 16:16:37 GMT

In article <JMC.92Dec28170637@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:

>Is Ms. Wolf sure that mere cultural appropriation from Easter Island
>is involved?  My sources tell me that the statue itself was illegally
>exported.

My recollection is that the statue is a Bufano, that it reflects his
typical style, and that Easter Island has nothing to do with it.


-- 
     Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/IWR/Ruprecht-Karls University 
               gsmith@kalliope.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Cross-Writing (was: Books I Got For Xmas)
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:04:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.193331.19047@genie.slhs.udel.edu> nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:

>Where is human nature so weak as in the bookstore?

In the video store, possibly. In the bakery, certainly.


--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:24614 alt.discrimination:5549
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Homophobia
Date: 11 Jan 93 17:54:37 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Followup-To: alt.discrimination
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

msmorris@watsci.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Morris) wrote:
[ about laws against discrimination in employment, in an interminable
  and completely irrelevant thread in rec.arts.books arising out of the
  Colorado open-season-on-queers law ]
> By the way, Mike, do you not also understand that, as these laws
> are often used (in practice, I mean, in reality) we are talking
> about prosecuting employers for a thought crime in which presumption
> of innocence is thrown out the window? I mean how in the heck are
> you going to *prove* discriminatory hiring or firing?

Have you considered actually looking at a few historical precedents for a
serious answer to that question?  It's not as if there haven't been *lots*
of cases where discrimination *has* been proved in court by the same
standards of evidence used for any other legal procedure of comparable
gravity.  If you weren't such a lazy abstraction-addicted wanker you could
have found this out for yourself by reading a few law journals.

And it's not as if the historical precedent is for employers to be coy
about this, either.  In Northern Ireland big firms would often just write
"Religion" in the space on their forms recording why an applicant was
refused a job: and the anti-discrimination laws there *have* created more
job opportunities for Catholics, so it's not like the bigotry is just as
effective when forced to be covert.  (Though the effect has been class-
specific, as one might expect: still, that's better than nothing).

Followups to alt.discrimination.  ***ONLY***.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: academic settings
Date: 11 Jan 1993 12:00:47 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Lest we forget:
  John Barth's GILES GOAT BOY.....

sorry to all the anti- Barthians.....(tough cheese, to yez)
-- 
Ted....
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books