HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Subject: Re: RESULT: comp.society.folklore unmoderation fails 729:151
Reply-To: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 05:10:51 GMT

In article <BzD7GH.865@polaris.async.vt.edu> jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (Joel K. Furr) writes:
>ib.tmc.edu>
>Organization: Escape from Blacksburg, VA
>
>In article <8145@lib.tmc.edu> jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:

>>either there are expensive or difficult registration requirements, severe
>>access limits, or both.
>
>Sorry, Jay, but THE NET DIDN'T BUY THAT ARGUMENT.  Are you with me, Jay?  Your
>stubborn, idiotic, Neanderthalistic argument that the entire net should be
>forced to move alt.folklore.computers into a comp. group just so YOU could read
>it without having to register at another site WENT DOWN IN FLAMES.

Systems such as nyx have been subjected to a lot of abuse, so they have to
tighten up on registration requirements.  True, but the "difficulty" is a
relative term:

nyx wants you to log on to a pre-functioning account now.  From said account
is given all information and invitation to become a full-fledged user.  What
is required on your part is to send them some reasonable personal documentation
so you can prove that you really are yourself, and consists of mailing them
something, including some personal info that you can be challenged with on
the net, as proof of your personal youness, etc.  Alternatively, you can send
them a personal check for any amount, including $0.00 but having a name and
address pre-printed on the check, or a notarized statement or stuff like that,
etc.  Again, the purpose is security, and it was brought on by the immature
abuse of others.

The first incarnation of nyx was an open free account.  They asked that
people stop doing things unreasonable to be done; those jokesters didn't
pay attention.  The second incarnation was that in 5 minutes everyone was
allowed non-shell access to a menu system that did all you could want
for news including posting, and a little personal storage, and an invitation
to do the security checkout to get shell access, etc. to extend your privileges
back to the former state.  Now, newcomers can only access the pre-account stuff
and must follow through to get full access back.

In any case, there are people who have difficulties in reaching netnews in 
*any* form, and would kill to have access so "expensive" or with "difficult
registration requirements" or "severe access limits" as nyx ever had o
presently has.

cjl
Newsgroups: news.groups,sci.med
From: eepee@polaris.utu.fi (Esa-Pekka P{lvim{ki)
Subject: Re: RFD: sci.med.psychiatry
Organization: University of Turku, Finland
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 15:30:28 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.040115.23060@u.washington.edu> lamontg@stein.u.washington.edu (Lamont Granquist) writes:
>Okay, this is a straw poll.  Who wants sci.med.psychiatry and who would
>rather have something else like sci.med.neuroscience?

There is a bionet.neuroscience newsgroup already - thus sci.med.psychiatry
would be better.

/ep
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (JKF)
Subject: Re: Give up, Dave, you've lost!
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 18:13:52 GMT

In article <2B2C9832.2D01@tct.com> chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
>According to jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard):
>>This is a Dave Hayes tactic: refer to your mailbox...never mind that it's
>>completely unverifiable as a source of data for an argument.
>
>At a nearby meeting of Joel Complimenters Anonymous:
>
>"Hi.  My name is Chip, and I told Joel that I liked his Jay flame."

"Hi, Chip!"

Joel "hey, wait, what am I _doing_ here?" Furr
From: dave@frackit.UUCP (Dave Ratcliffe)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: DAVE HAYES MAY BE RIGHT!
Date: 16 Dec 92 00:53:25 GMT
Organization: Data Factory Services, Harrisburg, Pa.


 In article <1992Dec10.223550.11752@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>, dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes) writes:
 > rorschak@daimi.aau.dk (Jesper Lauridsen) writes:
 > >>>Poppycock. Anyone who wants to cast a vote, can. You don't even need to
 > >>>register three weeks prior to the election, and you don't have to show
 > >>>an ID card to someone before they give you a ballot. Ballots show up
 > >>>without asking.
 > >>Poppycock. Anyone who KNOWS THAT THERE IS A VOTE AND WHAT IT MEANS can.
 > >>The whole argument has hinged on this point.
 > >The very fact that a ballot pups up right in front of their noses is
 > >a pretty good hint that a vote is going on.
 > 
 > Prove that it popped up in front of their noses. 

Prove that it didn't. 

 > IN partiucular...were
 > you there while they were reading and did you see it pop up and was
 > their nose in front while it did?

You are getting even more ridiculous with each passing post. No doubt
you are having an immense amount of fun.

-- 
 vogon1!compnect!frackit!dave@psuvax1.psu.edu            |  Dave Ratcliffe  |
 - or - ..uunet!wa3wbu!frackit!dave                      |  Sys. <*> Admin. |
                                                         | Harrisburg,  Pa. |
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: markz@ssc.com (Mark Zenier)
Subject: Re: What to do with comp.society.folklore (Was: Re: Don't mess with the folklore people)  
Organization: SSC, Inc.,  Seattle, WA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 03:01:45 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]


JKF (jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu) wrote:
: People who are at sites where the news admins are STILL refusing to carry
: alt.folklore.computers can always telnet to nyx.cs.du.edu, login as guest,
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: and follow the procedures for creating an account.  

Netnews is not just on the Internet.

A UUCP site with a restricted feed, or worse yet, a MS-DOS (Waffle?)
site feed from whatever source just doesn't work that way.  And out
here in the real world, it's a lot more common than you can ever
guess given your apparent knowledge of computer history or technology.

Mark Zenier  markz@ssc.wa.com  
Newsgroups: news.groups,comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives
From: w8sdz@tacom-emh1.army.mil (Keith Petersen)
Subject: Re: All your postings to this newsgroup might go wasted!
Followup-To: news.groups
Summary: Unfinished business on a newsgroup rename
Organization: The SIMTEL20 Archives
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:37:57 GMT

weave@apache.dtcc.edu (Ken Weaverling) writes:
>For those just joining in the fun, the discussion is about the rmgroup'ing 
>of comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives, which allegedly has been renamed to
>comp.archives.msdos.announce.d.  I mentioned that I didn't remember hearing
>about c.b.i.p.archives being "scheduled" for deletion...
>[...]
>OK, I am confused now.  Scanning back over news.announce.newsgroups and 
>news.groups, I see no mention of c.b.i.p.archives being zapped. Not that I
>care, being that I am not a fan of DOS based machines, but my users might.
>
>I did see the announcement of the comp.archives.msdos.* groups...
>[...]
>BUT!!!! No mention of the removal of c.b.i.p.archives...
>
>[rmgroup posting quote omitted]
>
>Also, c.b.i.p.archives did not make it into the Bogus groups listing that
>was posted in article <1gnporINNr99@news.UU.NET> by Mr. Lawrence.
>
>Can someone shed some light on this?  
>
>BTW, I did get a rmgroup control message this morning, article 
><9212180720.AA22111@tacom-emh1.army.mil> which claims to be from
>Keith Petersen.
>
>I am ignoring the rmgroup for now at this site, until I get further
>clarification...

The rmgroup *was* from me.  David Lawrence left to go on extended
vacation, omitting this piece of business which *should* have been done. 
The continuation of the old newsgroup is disruptive to the operation of
the new newsgroup.  The world shouldn't have to stop because someone
goes on vacation.

The vote was overwhelming, the highest in Usenet history, to RENAME
comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives to comp.archives.msdos.d.  The new
newsgroup was created last week.  It is the companion group to
comp.archives.msdos.announce, of which I am the official moderator. 

Keith
--
Keith Petersen
Moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce and the MSDOS-Ann mailing list
Internet: w8sdz@TACOM-EMH1.Army.Mil     or      w8sdz@Vela.ACS.Oakland.Edu
Uucp: uunet!umich!vela!w8sdz                         BITNET: w8sdz@OAKLAND
From: dave@frackit.UUCP (Dave Ratcliffe)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: Rename rec.music.maker.synth to rec.music.synth?
Date: 19 Dec 92 01:25:34 GMT
Organization: Data Factory Services, Harrisburg, Pa.

In article <1992Dec14.134054.8600@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>, dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes) writes:
> jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
> I don't know who took over SYNTH-L so this is not possible. What's wrong
> with holding a revote and both sides agreeing beyond all recall that the
> new vote stands? (And don't cite guidelines)

Why not? The guidelines are the rules by which votes are held. And the
answer to your question has been answered enough times here that there
is now some question as to your comprehension of simple english.

> >If you don't think this will solve the problem, be specific as to why not.
> 
> There's other news admins who are keeping the old name, and who aren't 
> listening to this group at all. No I don't have any proof...but it's
> reasonable to assume given email I've gotten and posts I've seen.

Are these admins you cite like that supposed email you received in
support of your position? More vapor.  Don't make claims unless you are
prepared to back them up.  In any case, those admins are free to not
carry the new group, as are you.  That is not the issue here.  Your
assertion that there should be a revote of a properly conducted vote IS
the disagreement. 

-- 
 vogon1!compnect!frackit!dave@psuvax1.psu.edu            |  Dave Ratcliffe  |
 - or - ..uunet!wa3wbu!frackit!dave                      |  Sys. <*> Admin. |
                                                         | Harrisburg,  Pa. |
Xref: sparky news.groups:24556 news.admin.misc:821
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.native
Subject: Re: RFD: soc.culture.native.american
Date: 19 Dec 92 19:57:31 GMT
Reply-To: hades@Dartmouth.Edu
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Disclaimer: Personally, I really don't care who you think I speak for.
Moderator: Rec.Arts.Comics.Info

gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo) writes:

>In article <idoy.724717177@crux1.cit.cornell.edu> idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu
>	(Mike Wilson) writes:
>> ... I thought that, in a general sense, the way that
>> creating newsgroups worked was to create the hierarchy, and
>> then later to propose new RFDs for these other groups.  Once
>> a solid hierarchy was created, in other words, others could
>> later build upon it as they wished.

>Right, but what we want to give some thought to at this point is what
>sort of base we are building for later development.

    But you can plan too far in advance. Many groups have failed becuase
the people involved were too concerned with adding more groups, and make
a hierarchy.

>Since we do not yet have a subject-matter exchange going, aside from
>what already exists on the NativeNet mailing lists, it seems too soon to
>attempt a breakdown by region, so we are probably better off with just
>creating a basic "soc.culture.native" at this point, though I would
>prefer making the next level of division bifurcated based on a
>distinction between infor- mation (".info") and discussion (".chat" or
>".misc"), to permit easy links with NativeNet lists to be established.

    Is it too much to ask that we worry about the newsgroup first,
instead of some possible future impact of a mailing list? Usenet does
not exist for you to gateway your mailing lists.

>Later, a "soc.culture.native.chat" newsgroup could be used to consider
>whether it was time to talk about creating a
>"soc.culture.native.info.america" or some such, if there was enough
>traffic of a strictly (North/South) American nature, and if folks wanted
>to consider that subject matter separately.

>How does that idea sound?

    Like way too much to be thinking about at this stage, we don't even
have the first newsgroup, much less the fourth one that you mention
above. Can we try to slow things down a bit? What we want here is
soc.culture.native, first, and possibly other groups at some later date
that we really can't talk about at this point, because we don't even
have the first group.

--
-Brian V. Hughes
	     "If you could care less, then why don't you?"
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: Yes votes >= 200+2*No Votes
Date: 14 Dec 92 15:53:53 GMT
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC

In article <78222@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt7797a@prism.gatech.EDU (Travis Works) writes:
> So if I'm the only person that doesn't like a new group and a thousand other
> people do like it, all I have to do is propose a dozen or so different names
> and the group will fail if each name gets less than 200 (or whatever) votes?

No, because most people will vote for most of the names as acceptable. I said
you can vote for *one or more* of the names.

This isn't to say that you can't figure out ways of torpedoing a group with
soe sort of hostile action... any system allows that. In this case, though,
you would probably have to be running the vote and include nothing but bogus
groups, but if you're that opposed to the group why are you running the vote?

Now if you have a hostile vote taker, then you need to use a more complex
system. The transferrable vote system with write-ins I've used several times
is pretty much foolproof, but it does require more work from the vote taker
(trust me on this...), which means it's going to be hard to get a hostile
vote-taker to use it.

I think allowing a preemptive vote with the transferrable system to deal with
the hostile vote taker would solve that.

> Do you just not like new groups or something???

Quite the opposite. What I don't like is bogus names and flame wars over
bogus names.
-- 
%Peter da Silva/77487-5012 USA/+1 713 274 5180/Have you hugged your wolf today?
/L{lineto}def/C{curveto}def/F{0 562 moveto 180 576 324 648 396 736 C 432 736 L
482 670 518 634 612 612 C}def/G{setgray}def .75 G F 612 792 L 0 792 L fill 1 G
324 720 24 0 360 arc fill 0 G 3 setlinewidth F stroke showpage % "Peerless"
Xref: sparky news.groups:24517 alt.native:1451
From: gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo)
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.native
Subject: Re: soc.culture.<whatever>.*   [ native/indigenous/aboriginal ]
Date: 17 Dec 92 02:38:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: gnosys.1992Dec17.023819.11899

In article <1992Dec16.202012.9338@gnosys.svle.ma.us> I wrote:

> ...I've looked through the
> list of mainstream newsgroups, and have come up with several instances
> of ".d" newsgroups attached to a parent newsgroup that itself carries
> traffic (as opposed to using that parent newsgroup solely as a node for
> associating a number of subgroups).  Those newsgroups are:
> 
> 	comp.binaries.ibm.pc
> 	comp.sys.hp48
> 	misc.forsale.computers
>   and	rec.humor

> ...I don't see a clear reason for avoiding doing
> things that way, to create, for example:
> 
> 	soc.culture.indigenous
>   and	soc.culture.indigenous.d

> I would prefer to avoid a ".misc" newsgroup by using the parent news-
> group for informational postings.  However I would accept the ".misc"
> if that were the will of the voting net-public.

Well, it appears, from an article in news.groups just posted, entitled
"Bogus USENET Groups" which indicates that one of the newsgroups mentioned
in my example, "misc.forsale.computers," has been replaced by another
("misc.forsale.computer.other") and I note that there seems to be a
general trend toward creating ".misc" newsgroups to replace using nodes
which contain subgroups.  However, I note that the other newsgroups are
still in existence.  But, though "comp.binaries.ibm.pc" and "comp.binaries.
ibm.pc.d" still exist, "comp.sys.ibm.pc" has been superceded by "comp.sys.
ibm.pc.misc."

Can someone make a brief comment for the benefit of those of us who aren't
regular readers of news.groups what lies behind the creation of ".misc"
newsgroups.  Thanks.

Gary
--
    Gary S. Trujillo                            gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us
Somerville, Massachusetts              {wjh12,bu.edu,spdcc,ima,cdp}!gnosys!gst
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Subject: Re: DAVE HAYES MAY BE RIGHT!
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 16:06:40 GMT

In article <=4_rkf@lynx.unm.edu> kogoma@vesta.unm.edu (Taki Kogoma) writes:
>In article <631.9212091049@csparc12.scs.leeds.ac.uk> ross-c@scs.leeds.ac.uk writes:
>>In article <1992Nov29.042839.13103@bcrka451.bnr.ca> you write:
>>>I don't think you understand how democracy works.
>>>
>>>Democracy only works if people take the trouble to LEARN WHAT'S GOING ON
>>>and to PARTICIPATE IN THE PROCESS.
>
>Um...who wrote this?

Yes Ross, who did write that?  (Hint - I would very much prefer if
my words were properly attributed to me!  I'm sure you like seeing
your own name show up in the attribution list, in its proper place...)

Remember, this whole thread is about you and Dave claiming things
should be made clearer, easier...  People *must* provide all the
required information, ever so clearly, you tell us!

       The Rhealist - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself
From: bob@comlab.gatech.edu (Bob Baggerman)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.os.ms-windows.networking
Date: 20 Dec 92 18:35:42 GMT
Organization: GTRI Communications Lab

dean@deans.frontiertech.com writes:
>This is a formal Request For Discussion regarding the establishment of
>a newsgroup to discuss issues and questions related to Windows
>networking.

There has been some dicussion recently (the last couple of days) on 
the Microsoft LAN Manager mailing list about a news group which would
encompass LAN Manager, Windows for Work Groups, and other networking
issues with regard to Microsoft products.  Just speaking for myself
I prefer the idea of this broader news group.  Just my $0.02 worth.

Bob

-- 
Bob Baggerman                         !  bob.baggerman@gtri.gatech.edu
Communications Laboratory             !  bob@comlab.gatech.edu
Georgia Tech Research Institute       !  qseclrb@prism.gatech.edu
Atlanta, GA  30332  USA               !  404-894-3525
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: chrisf@brtph316.bnr.ca (Chris Fulmer)
Subject: Re: Court Rulings Hierarchy
Reply-To: woodstock!chris@mcnc.org
Organization: BNR Dept 3B91, RTP
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:34:58 GMT

It seems to me that most of the proposed Court Rulings
Hierarchy would occupy significant bandwidth, but that
most of it would be unused.  Here's why:

1.  Rulings tend to be fairly wordy.  At minimum, on
the order of several pages.

2.  The rulings which most people seem to be concerned
about are Supreme Court rulings.  Rulings of lower courts
get much less press, and thus would generate less interest
on the net.

3.  While this information is definately useful if you're
a lawyer or somebody interested in law, using news to
distribute it isn't exactly the most efficient way, 
partially because it'd get distributed all over the world,
but more importantly because it isn't in a useful format:
Getting the rulings as they come out isn't very useful.
What is useful is the ability to go back and search through
past rulings.  (Lexxus, a commerial service, provides this.)

Instead, I would suggest the following alternative:

1.  An anonymous FTP site, with UUCP on it.  Thus, those
of us who receive news via uucp could still do a 'uucp'
of the rulings.

2.  Some sort of catalog of the rulings should be there.

3.  Posting that catalog or an index to misc.legal or
similar.

--

Incidently, if somebody could E-mail me the directions
for voting on this, I'd appreciate it.  (Is there a vote
yet, or has it just been proposed.)

Thanks.

------------------------------------------------------
Chris Fulmer                    Bell-Northern Research
Sr. Software Designer            Research Triangle, NC
mail to woodstock!chris@mcnc.org (preferable) or...
        chrisf@bnr.ca            (not so preferable)
Oh yeah.  The usual disclaimers apply here.
Xref: sparky news.groups:24681 news.newusers.questions:5513
From: jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap)
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.newusers.questions
Subject: Re: eunet?
Followup-To: news.newusers.questions
Date: 19 Dec 1992 03:53:03 GMT
Organization: AS&M Inc
Distribution: world
Reply-To: J Lee Jaap <J.L.Jaap@larc.nasa.gov>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cmb00.larc.nasa.gov
In-reply-to: zombie@EBay.Sun.COM's message of 18 Dec 1992 20:50:25 GMT

In article <1gtdihINN6c0@male.EBay.Sun.COM> zombie@EBay.Sun.COM (zombie) writes:

   What are the eunet.* groups for?

Have you read the FAQ entitled "List of Alternative Newsgroups".
It's periodically posted in news.answers and news.lists.  Or
browse via anonymous ftp on rtfm.mit.edu:/pub/usenet/ .

I would guess that they're for discussion on EUNET.

Followups to n.n.q, hoping to remind them too to read the FAQ before
posting.
--
J Lee Jaap <J.L.Jaap@LaRC.NASA.Gov> +1 804/864-2148
    employed by, not speaking for, AS&M Inc, at
         NASA LaRC, Hampton VA 23681-0001
Newsgroups: news.groups