From: rreed@mtwire.es.com (Rob Reed)
Subject: Re: linguistic root of "thai"
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
	<1e7hooINNh3c@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU>
	<1992Nov16.220713.10755@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov>
	<9232217.4085@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:12:26 GMT

>>>Siam is not a Thai word. Back 100 of years ago when Thai called themself "thai",but when Western/White fleets arrived at Malaya, they asked local ppl there
>>>about a nation up north of Malaya and were told that "Siam" lived up there.
>
>>This is interesting. Another theory (proposed by our die-young genius,
>>Jit Phumisak) is that Siam is an ancient word; the root of which can be
>
>I'm not sure about both of these theories.  Can someone in Thailand look up
>from Thai dictionary please.  Though I'm not sure whether we can get the
>meaning that is accepted by those who studies Thai history.

Probably correct about not getting linguistic information from history.
I'm neither a linguist, nor a historian.  I'm just someone who hasn't
contributed all that much to soc.culture.thai, so I'll quote a little from
"Thailand Official Year Book 1964", published by the Thai Government.
(This doesn't answer the question you're pursuing, however, but I
thought it was interesting.)

quote:

Before June 24th 1939, Thailand was known as Siam (in European
language) or Sayam (in Thai).  As far as can be traced, the word
"Siam" was first used by Sir James Lancaster in his first voyage to
the Far East in 1592.  By the seventeenth century, Siam became the
generally accepted name of the country among the Europeans, as
witnessed by M. de la Loubere's book "Description du Royaume de Siam"
which was printed at Paris in 1691.  However, the Thais preferred to
call their country by the official name of the current capital.  Thus
during the Sukhothai period (1238-1378), it was the kingdom of
Sukhothai.  With Ayudhya as the metropolis (1350-1767), it was the
kingdom of Ayudhya.  Siam or Sayam became the official name of the
country only in the reign of the fourth monarch of the Chakri Dynasty
-- King Mongkut (1851-1868).  When he signed the treaty with Great
Britain on April 18th 1855, Muang Thai was still used, but in the
ratification of the said treaty on April 5th 1856, Siam was
substituted for Muang Thai for the first time.  It should be noted
that Muang Thai has been the popular name of the country from ancient
times.  It appears on the stone inscriptions of the Sukhothai period
and in the treaty with Breat Britain in 1826.  "Muang" corresponds to
"land" and Thai is "free."  Muang Thai then signifies the Land of the
Free and is still widely used by the people in their writings and
speeches, though they are fully aware of the change of the official
name of the country of Thailand.

When the Pibulsonggram government took office at the end of 1938, it
embarked on a programme of national reconstruction and "decided to
drop the name Siam both in Thai and in European language."  In Thai,
Prades Sayam was altered to Prades Thai, and in English the name was
Thailand with the equivalent form in other languages.  This change was
clearly stated in the State Convention Number One, issued by the Thai
Government, the reason being that the new name conformed to the racial
origins and the popular practice of the Thai people.  So, with one
interruption in 1946-1948, Thailand has been the official name of the
country up to the present.

At one time conflicting opinions and theories prevailed as to the
origins of the Thais.  It may now be said with a degree of certainty
that they originated in northwestern Szechuan about 4,500 years ago.
They then spread out, according to their inclination in a fan-like
manner along the Yangtse valley in order to seek a better livelihood.
When they came into contact with the Chinese, they were already a
great and old race, but they were divided into tribes or groups; each
tribe or group being ruled by its own prince or chieftain.  The
Chinese called them by the proper names of Muang, Lung and Pa, but the
Thais called themselves Ailao.  Just like the Chinese, the Thais
belong to the Mongolian stock.  After the commencement of intercourse
between them, however, the Chinese apparently regarded themselves as
being superior to the Thais.  From the sixth century B.C. onwards, the
Chinese annals make frequent references to them as the "barbarians"
south of the Yangtse, where they found it impossible to settle down
permanently.  The Chinese gradually began to encroach upon them and
press them hard.  Due to their lack of unity, the Thais could not
organize an effective resistance to the Chinese onslaughts.  Some of
them had perforce to submit to the Chinese onslaughts.  Some of them
had perforce to submit to the Chinese rule and were eventually
absorbed by them, while others made attempts to preserve their
independence.  In order to attain their objective, they started their
southward migrations gradually and intermittently, as they were able
to collect their own people who were prepared to face unflinchingly
harships and danger.  The first wave of these migrations occurred at
the beginning of the Christian era, and in the meantime, they came to
call themselves Thai.

The Thais followed the river valleys in their movements towards the
south.  "The march of this strange race, which being supple and fluid
like water, insinuating itself with the same force, taking the colour
of all the skies and the form of all the river banks, but keeping the
essential identity of its character and language under different
aspects, had spread out like an immense sheet from South China,
Tonking, Laos, Siam to Burma and Assam."  The western group of the
Thais descended along the Salween river where they settled down and
became Shans or so-called Great Thais.  Meanwhile some of these
ventured to proceed further west and established the Ahom Kingdom of
Assam in 1229.  Choosing the Mekong valley as its home, the eastern
group spread its ramifications to Tongking, and constituted the
ancestry of the Laotians, while the middle group emigrated into the
Chao Phya valley.  These last two groups have been referred to as the
Little Thais.

The Thais who were determined to remain in South China joined their
forces together under the leadership of Sinulo who founded the Kingdom
of Nanchao in west and northwest Yunnan with Talifu as its capital in
651, and his dynasty continued its rule until 903.  During that
period, the Kingdom successfully retained its Thai characteristics in
spite of slowly penetrating Chinese influences, but after the end of
the Sinulo dynasty, it became increasingly sinicized until it was
destroyed by Kublai Khan's army in 1253.  Generally speaking, Nanchao
was a progressive country under an absolute monarchy.  Rice
cultivation formed the most important occupation of the people and was
followed by silk worm rearing and silk and cloth weaving.  As regards
minerals, the Kingdom could boast of gold which was found in the sand
and on the mountains.

:end quote
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai