HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: larry@pdn.paradyne.com (Larry Swift)
Subject: Re: Downside of sailboat sitting on bottom??
Organization: AT&T Paradyne, Largo, Florida
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 13:49:16 GMT

In article <11624@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> nall@ibm12.scri.fsu.edu (John Nall) writes:
>The water in my little canal gets very shallow at low tide, and without
>any doubt whatsoever the boat is going to be sitting on the bottom
>a lot of the time.  Any real downside to this??   The motor will be

The one time I had to leave my 37', 20000lb love in water too
shallow for her, I had to sleep aboard before leaving her the
next AM.  When the tide went out, she starting pounding on the
bottom (firm sand, fortunately) and neither of us were happy
about it.  At low tide, it was OK.  

The other bother about this situation as a regular thing is
often when you want to go sailing, you can't because the tide
is out.  And don't forget that you can't stay out very long
(on a day sail) because the tide will be out when you want
to come in.

IMHO, you'll be unhappy with the arrangement.

Larry Swift                     larry@pdn.paradyne.com
AT&T Paradyne, LG-132           Phone: (813) 530-8605
8545 - 126th Avenue, North
Largo, FL, 34649-2826           She's old and she's creaky, but she holds!

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: meyer@dbsun.uucp (Don Meyer)
Subject: Re: Hudson -> Erie, etc. (was: Who's planning a cruise? Where and When?)
Organization: BioMerieux-Vitek, St. Louis Mo.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:56:24 GMT

In Chicago, at least _some_ of the bridges are raisable.  Not sure if all
of them are (but if they all aren't what's the point of _any_ of them
being?).  Wish I had more concrete information, sorry...

Don
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
meyer%dbsun.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu        |||     I am at two with nature.
Opinions expressed are personal.         |||       -- Woody Allen
From: ben@smartstar.com (Benjamin Ellsworth)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: GPS fix quality (was: Celestial vs. GPS )
Date: 5 Jan 93 20:44:34 GMT
Organization: SmartStar/Signal Technology
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

> ...[ displays of confidence intervals ]...

The only really bad experience that I've had with electronic aids to
navigation would not have been solved by this.  The skipper had
neglected to enter the propagation delay factors and the LORAN reported
positions which were 2mi west of actual.  If it had been 2mi east, it
would have been a much different story.

As the old saw goes, you can't make something foolproof because fools
are so darned clever.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Benjamin Ellsworth                            E-MAIL  ben@smartstar.com
SmartStar Corp.            
120 Cremona Dr.                                   VOICE  (805) 685-8000
Goleta, CA    93117                               FAX    (805) 562-1111
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                   All possible disclaimers apply.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bloxham@geophysics.harvard.edu (Jeremy Bloxham)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: FOR SALE: S2 9.1 Racer-Cruiser
Date: 4 Jan 93 18:26:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1993Jan4.182649.5598
Reply-To: bloxham@geophysics.harvard.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: Earth and Planetary Sciences, Harvard University

FOR SALE: S2 9.1  Racer-Cruiser (30ft/9.1m LOA) 1983

Extensively equipped for racing and cruising. Most electronics 1989 or
newer, including windspeed (apparent and true) and SailComp. Harken
roller bearing genoa leads, Quik-Vang, Tuff Luff, and spare headstay
with Harken split-drum furling.

Kevlar main with carbon battens (new 8/92); kevlar L1 (new 5/92),
kevlar H1 (new 5/91), kevlar #2 and #3; 30/20 spinnaker (new 5/92), 0.5
and 0.75 oz spinnakers; spinnaker staysail. Dacron cruising main and #2
genoa.

1992 race record: 1st PHRF New England Championships, 1st YRUMB (Yacht
Racing Union Mass Bay) Season Championship, 1st Marblehead Season
Championship.
            
Price:      $45,000         Location: Marblehead, Mass.

Contact:    Jeremy Bloxham  bloxham@geophysics.harvard.edu
                            617 495-9517 (w)  617 631-8689 (h)
From: pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu (Greg Pavlov)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: User's Fee
Date: 12 Jan 93 14:23:53 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

In article <50700066@hpscit.sc.hp.com>, dick@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Dick Lucas) writes:
> 
> The boat I have is a Sea Ray Laguna 20 which is registered as a 20 foot boat.
> The overall length is 22' 8" according to their literature.  BTW, in 91 or 92
> they changed the model to a Laguna 21 without any hull changes.  The reasoning
> was that to be competitive they included the length of the "euro-style"
> swim platform.
> 
  Well, this may be wrong but EVERY boat dealer I talked to last year (I was
  looking for a boat and I talked to a lot...) said the same thing:  boat man-
  ufacturers restated lengths not "to be competitive" but because the Coast
  Guard insisted that built-in swim platforms be included in total length.
 
  These people also said that as of this coming year, integral bow pulpits 
  will have to be included in overall boat length as well.


  greg pavlov
  pavlov@fstrf.org
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: dudley@birch12.cray.com (Dudley Knappe)
Subject: Re: Oil Tanker Grounding
Reply-To: dudley@birch.cray.com
In-reply-to: youngqud@ucs.orst.edu's message of 7 Jan 1993 18:32:01 GMT
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 7 Jan 93 13:55:28 CST


|> In article <1ihsv1INNo0s@gaia.ucs.orst.edu> youngqud@ucs.orst.edu (Dean Youngquist) writes:
|>
|>    Regarding the recent grounding of a large oil tanker in (I think) the
|>    Shetland Islands, how is it possible for a ship to be driven onto the
|>    rocks ?  Was is actually driven into land while using maximum power and
|>    while attempting to travel directly away from land, into the swells and
|>    wind ?
|> 
|>    -Dean
|> 
|>

 	My understanding from watching CNN is that the engines quit because of
a saltwater leak in the fuel lines during the storm.  The engines quit while
the tanker was passing to windward of the Shetlands and the ship was blown
onto the rocks.  Attempts were made to fix the problem with the fuel lines,
but the diesels would not restart.  Once aground, the seas caused the tanker
to be pushed against the rocks and the hull to rupture (in the engine room, if
I remember correctly).  The tanker settled in place.  Thankfully, The British
Coast Guard (Navy?) was able to save all 32 (? - according to CNN) crew.
--
Dudley Knappe, Software Development Division            Cray Research, Inc.
Phone: (612) 683-5529                                   655F Lone Oak Drive
E-mail: dudley@cray.com or uunet!cray!dudley            Eagan, MN 55121
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: petere@tesla.mitre.org (Peter D. Engels)
Subject: Re: GPS fix quality (was: Celestial vs. GPS )
Followup-To: rec.boats
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:53:30 GMT

In article <ZIELKE.92Dec31113634@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil>,
zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke) wrote:
> 
> There is yet another problem with the 'precision' of the fixes given by GPS
> or even LORAN.  While sailing from Norfolk to Cape May this summer I stopped
> in at Ocean City, MD.  There was this guy single handing a 30' something or
> another sloop.  He was convinced that he could make it into the inlet half
> way between Ocean City and Norfolk.  The chart showed a 5.5' channel which
> was unmarked (because it moves with every major storm) and his draft was
> 5.25'.  He told me 'I can get in there, my GPS is accurate to 15 meters and
> the channel is 30 meters wide'  I hope I convinced him not to try...  He was
> from Canada on the great lakes and simply did not believe that the bottom
> changed with time.
> 
....

The major problem here is the statement that "   my GPS is accurate to 15
meters..." I'm no6t sure where this misinformation came from, but, except
for special GPS receivers available only to the military, the accuracy is
100 meters.

-Pete
From: michaels@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Michaelson)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Oil Tanker Grounding
Date: 12 Jan 93 00:00:52 GMT
Reply-To: michaels@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Michaelson)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.boats, stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski) writes:
>Some teeth are being gnashed over the abandonment of the Braer by her
>crew. I wonder how many gnashers have experienced the terror of being
>in a powerless ship during a really big storm? How many of them would
>wave off a rescue chopper, knowing that it might be their last act?
>
>The safety of the marine environment cannot depend on the validity of
>the hoary Victorian myth that those who make a living on the sea are
>endowed with superhuman courage.
>
>Stefan

AMEN!

As someone who has served on tankers you can bet your but I would have
been off that ship as soon as possible when I knew it was headed for
the rocks.  Anyone who spouts off otherwise obviously has not been on
a loaded tanker in rough going.  And the conditions off the Shetlands
were extreme.

About this bunk of getting a towline attached from a tug, imagine
yourself on deck with 20+ feet of solid green water, 40 degree water
no less, washing all over the deck trying to pull up a six in dia. wet
hawser and dropping it on a three foot high bitt. B.S.!  Most loaded
tankers don't have much more than 15 feet of freeboard if that.  They
spend much of their lives just under the water surface.

Anchors - probably no good.  In those conditions part of the bow could
have been ripped off.

This ship just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Yes it's a tragedy, but as far as the crew remaining with the ship,
what good would it do to add to this terrible event an useless waste
of 30 human lives?

rob
These are my opinions
From: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM (Jeff Huntington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Coast Guard Boating Tax, NOT!
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:57:45 GMT
Reply-To: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: nonsuch.ebay.sun.com


Having just ordered my 1993 sticker via the 800 number, I got to thinking about
how many of these they must "sell" just to cover the administrative cost of
office, people to answer the phones and process the paperwork, the 800 number, etc.
Is the govenment actually netting any money through all of this?

Jeff Huntington
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: edorff@iw.uni-hannover.de (Thilo Erdmannsdorff)
Subject: sensorsystems for underwater
Reply-To: edorff@iw.uni-hannover.de
Organization: Institut fuer Werkstoffkunde, Uni Hannover
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 11:30:26 GMT


In connection with a study about "Remotely Operated Underwater Vehicles" 
and "Autonomous Underwater Vehicles" we are searching for information about 
sensorsystems ( sonar etc. ) for such vehicles. We would be very grateful
about literary references, references about manufactures or other information
concerning this subject.

Thanks in advance
		 Thilo

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: floydb@rpi.edu
Subject: Who's planning a cruise? Where and When?
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:54:08 GMT

Other than the "Bermuda" trip I haven't read any other 
postings about future cruises.

Is anyone planning a cruise/trip for this spring or summer?

Where are you going? What are you doing to get ready? Who is
going along with you?


(lastline)
From: rpw@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Ray Wagner)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Inverter rules of thumb
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:18:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Virginia Computer Science Department

Here's a relatively stupid question. What's the amp hour
capacity of your average 8D marine battery?

--ray

-- 
Ray Wagner
                                Computer Science Department
     rpw@cs.virginia.edu         University of Virginia
                                  Charlottesville, VA   22903
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: whoward@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu (Will Howard)
Subject: Re: New AC Rules
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 14:23:32 GMT

In article <will.726187523@ogre> will@ogre.cica.indiana.edu (William Sadler)
writes:
>In <1ia6e5INNnmb@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes) writes:
>
>
>>I propose a rec.boats project: let's redesign the AC. I propose a few more
>>alterations (which others should feel free to reject). 
>
>How about instead of AC boats they just spend the same amount of money
>an buy Lasers.  Let's see... that's about 2000 Lasers per country give
>or take a few hundred.  Then have one big regatta with all of these
>boats.  The country with the lowest points wins!  I can just see it...
>4000 Lasers on the starting line

But, you know, somebody would figure out how to build a "cheater" carbon-fiber,
solid-state, differnetial GPS built into the tiller extension, data uplink to
the Strategic Air Command, Robo-Laser.

Will "Bought a Windsurfer in 1980 for simplicity" Howard
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke)
Subject: Re: How Do GPS Receivers Keep Time?
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 20:02:33 GMT

The time is found by using multiple satellite signals.  If one knew the
time accurately one only needs two sats to get a position, if one has
three sats then the time can be backed out of the calculation at the same
time.


David Zielke
'Botany Bay'
Cal 35 Hull 006

zielke@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil
From: len@persephone.think.com (Leonard Franco)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: inverter and battery use
Date: 7 Jan 93 17:42:44
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
	<1hv77mINNbvn@calvin.NYU.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: persephone.think.com
In-reply-to: roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu's message of 31 Dec 92 16:30:46 GMT

In article <1hv77mINNbvn@calvin.NYU.EDU> roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes:
Path: think.com!sdd.hp.com!wupost!emory!gatech!concert!rutgers!cmcl2!calvin!mchip00.med.nyu.edu!roy
   From: roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
   Newsgroups: rec.boats
   Keywords: inverter dc battery life
   Date: 31 Dec 92 16:30:46 GMT
   References: <mshulman.18.725765468@genghis.borland.com>
   Organization: New York University, School of Medicine
   Lines: 120
   NNTP-Posting-Host: mchip00.med.nyu.edu

   > My brother just took delivery of a Catalina 36 with 3 deep cycle 900 A/H 
   > batteries and an inverter.

	   OK, folks, pet peeve time.  There is no such unit as "A/H".  Or
   rather, there is, but it's not what you think it is.  A/H means "amps per
   hour", i.e. current divided by time.  What you really mean is AH (or A*H),
   conventionally read as "amp-hours", which is current multiplied by time.
   This may sound like nit-picking, but the error is so pervasive in
   discussions of battery life and it leads to such confusion that it's worth
   complaining about.

   <stuff deleted>

   Thank goodness someone finally got this straight! I had just about
   given up all hope of ever seeing this subject discussed without
   it self-destructing before my eyes. It's embarrassing to see
   even the pro's destroy this topic in otherwise reputable publications.
   I hope everyone took notes!

   <There's no such thing as a dumb question, only dumb answers.>
From: roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Oil Tanker Grounding (random questions about ship design)
Date: 12 Jan 1993 17:37:03 GMT
Organization: New York University, School of Medicine
NNTP-Posting-Host: mchip00.med.nyu.edu

O.B.Schou@lut.ac.uk (OBSchou) writes:
> However, if a ship hits a rock in heavy seas, the double hull will also be
> likely to leak.  The tanker in the Shetlands is taking one heck of a
> hammering.

	How thick is the hull in a typical ship?  If it's N inches, would a
double hull ship have two N inch thick hulls, or two N/2 inch thick hulls,
or something in-between?  How much space is between the hulls?  Does a
tanker actually have tanks, or do the inside of the hull plates also serve
as the walls of the tanks?
-- 
Roy Smith <roy@nyu.edu>
Hippocrates Project, Department of Microbiology, Coles 202
NYU School of Medicine, 550 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016
"This never happened to Bart Simpson."
From: niemi@astroatc.uucp (Bob Niemi)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Water System
Keywords: pressure pump
Date: 11 Jan 93 23:04:32 GMT
Organization: Astronautics Technology Cntr, Madison, WI

Follow up to posting on problems with a drinking water pump with integral
pressure switch burping (cycling) occasionally.... My similar PAR pump did
this due to a pinhole leak in the hose feeding the SUPPLY side of the pump.
The leak was so small there was no water leaking out--it just sucked a
little air.  I found the leak by bending the hose.

BTW, the hose is the white stuff with a spiral ribbing listed in one of the
marine supply catalogs as "quite stiff".  It is truly miserable to work with,
in that it doesn't stretch enough to make a comfortable fit over a barb--you
have to work like hell to get it to go.  It turns out it isn't that tough
either, for between the heavy duty ribs it is tissue thin.  I plan to replace
all such hose in my boat.

Look for an air sucking leak in the supply side, or the filter, etc.
Good luck.

Bob Niemi, Astronautics, Madison, WI...where the water is too hard to
boat in 5 months/year.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: steve@bcrvmpc2.vnet.ibm.com
Subject: Re: Who's planning a cruise? Where and When?
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:39:00 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.16 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: steve@bcrvmpc2.vnet.ibm.com
Organization: IBM, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina

In <1993Jan6.171410.21018@progress.com> gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras) writes:
>
Stuff deleted.....
>The Florida charter is a new experience.  We're renting a 34' Sharpie which draws
>16" with the leeboards up, ideal for the shallow water around the 'glades.
stuff deleted....
>cheers,
>gerard
Gerard,

Where are you renting a Sharpie from?  Our 21' is a little small for
friends and I love to take folks out in the flats in the Keys,
absolutely beautiful country.

Thanks,


Steve                   Steve Weingart        IBM Boca Raton
                        steve@bcrvmpc2.vnet.ibm.com

It's bad enough that I think these things, please don't think it's
my employer's opinion too.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: kevin@turbo.Columbia.NCR.COM (Kevin Ormerod)
Subject: Re: Coast Guard Boating Tax, NOT!
Organization: NCR Corp, E&M-Columbia, Columbia, SC
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 19:47:57 GMT

In article <1993Jan05.103949.28069@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> scott@prodplan.Columbia.NCR.COM (Scott Bridges) writes:

I just resigned as an active member of the USCG Auxiliary (Coxswain and one-
time Flotilla Commander).   Maybe I can provide some insight :-)

>The Coast Guard Auxiliary does not have any authority to board your boat.
>I think that their official designation is "quasi-government."  I think this
>means that they have some government funding.  I believe that their primary 
>mission is education and some safety/rescue patrolling.  I am not a member,
>but I know some guys who are.

The auxiliary does not have any police power (none, zero, nada).  They
cannot board your boat.  But beware, from time to time the Coast Guard
will put an officer aboard an Auxiliary boat.  Due to the liability
concerns of the CG it would be rare to conduct a boarding from an Auxiliary
vessel.  CG uniforms have gold buttons, Auxiliary uniforms have silver
buttons.  Auxiliary members are NEVER armed.  Regular CG will always have
a minimum of one armed person.

The Coast Guard pays gas/oil/basic expenses and assists in the training
programs of the Auxiliary.  Bottom line -- Auxiliarists are not paid!
Include courtesy boat examinations (safety inspections) and your list
of primary missions is pretty accurate.

>As far as jurisdiction is concerned, the USCG has authority in any waters
>navigable from the ocean.  Someone with a more technical understanding of 
>the law can provide the why-fores and where-as's.  So, I believe that any
>bay, river, inlet, etc with access is their jurisdiction.

Well, you can carry that a little further, Lake Murray is NOT navigable
from the ocean, but there have been several USCG patrols on the lake and
the Auxiliary Flotilla 12-3 is based there.

>I don't know how the USCG interacts with local/state police, though.

It depends on the area.  Here in the Columbia area the wildlife dept. does
not want anything to do with the CG or CGAUX.  The CG uses VHF marine
channels for COMS and have trouble communicating on police frequencies.
Most police agencies are just now beginning to use marine frequencies when
on the water.

When I lived in Florida there was a lot of interaction between the CG, 
CGAUX, Wildlife, Florida Marine Patrol, and DEA -- as a matter of fact
we had exercises that included all of the above plus the Navy. (simulated
terrorist attacks on Cape Canaveral).

ko-

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: floydb@rpi.edu
Subject: re: eastcoast boatshows
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:31:05 GMT

In article <Jan.6.11.08.54.1993.5936@pilot.njin.net> ccoombs@pilot.njin.net (Cliff Coombs) writes:
>
>East Coast Boat Show Reviews (my opinion)
>
>NYC - Lots of people, lots of power boats (last yeast I think I
>counted 6 sailboats > 15ft), Lots of vendors and better than catalog
>prices on most things if you are prepared to buy then and there.  Good 
>looking models (both boats and babes), kinda expensive when you
>include parking or train & subway or taxi.  
>
>Philly - I haven't been in a few years.  Smaller than NYC, less
>crowded too.  Years ago this was a better selling show than NYC
>(local dealers preferred it because it cost less and they sold just as 
>much)
>
>Atlantic City - Sail Expo, First year - Sailboats only! :-) 
>A good size list of vendors, but the seminars don't really grab me.
>Features a sailing pool for small boats.  $15/day $25/multi-day $4
>discount for tickets purchased before Jan. 15th. I left the details at
>home, but if you need more info you could email me.
>
>
>-Cliff
>-- 
> Cliff Coombs                        Voice (908) 527-2729  Fax (908) 355-5143 
> Campus Network Administrator                          ccoombs@pilot.njin.net
> Kean College of New Jersey                             ccoombs@luau.kean.edu
> Disclaimer: "I know noth-ink" -Schultz (Hogan's Heros)   ccoombs@njin.BITNET

It doesn't sound like I would be interested in the NYC Show, unfortunate because
that's the easiest one for me to attend. I will be talking to a local travel
agent regard planes/trains/buses to Atlantic City. Are there any special travel
discounts sponsored by the Show? And special Hotel rates? Where is the show
being held? 

The Philly Show sounds better than NYC and I haven't been there in a while. Last
time I went (8 years ago) it was a nice place to visit. Anyone else have opinions
about this show?

thanks
 
barry

Newsgroups: rec.boats