From: J.Ainikkal@massey.ac.nz (J. Ainikkal)
Subject: Re: INDIAN CULTURE - Subservient
Summary: Indian culture
Keywords: soc.culture.indian
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 01:38:12 GMT

Pardhasaradhi A. Reddy writes:
 
>In article <1992Nov13.010214.11313@massey.ac.nz>
>J.Ainikkal@massey.ac.nz (J. Ainikkal) writes: 
>>If culture is 'intellectual development' or 'rearing' within
>>a 
>>society - our society is an excellent example of one of the 
>>greatest subservient cultures. An example of what a culture
>>does not want to evolve into. 
> 
 
>Oh ya!  why don't you enlighten us about any other culture
>that's perfect. which other culture has been so superior to
>our's that we should be ashamed our culture ?. 

Every culture has its problems - only problems is that our
culture has more than the usual. While I do not deny the glory
of the past - there were things that went awfully wrong over the
past 1000 years. Today we have a 'subservient' nation.

(Stuff deleted) 
 
>This sounds stupid and baselss. 

And what U write  below is not.

>Its is a well known fact that  US is a country without a culture
>of its own. 

I think that U are relating culture to history. Could U do me a
favour and look up a dictionary and see what 'culture' means. Mac
Donalds, cowboys, American English and the American version of
Democracy is part of American culture.


>And it also true that India is a country with a culture that
>finds its origins to years before Christ was born. And I am sure
>many Indians are proud to know that. Just because, our culture 
>disintegrated in the recent years owing to ignorance and 
>fundamentalism, it doesn't mean that we should be ashamed of 
>it.  

I am not ashmed of the poverty of the people - I am not ashmed
of the past grateness of the the subcontinent. What I am ashmed
of is, as U put it, 'the disintegrat(ion) in the recent past
(1000 years) owing to ignorance and fundamentalism'.  That is
Indian Culture today.

Our history is different matter alltogether.
 

>America is a thrid world nation and most advanced  
>scientifically. And people still face rascial discrimination. 
>Isn't that ironical ?. Compared to USA, India is poor 
>both financially and technologically. Also, our literacy 
>percentage is much less. That's not a reason to blame our 
>culture. 

What do U blame illiteracy, poverty and subservience to? 

OUR CULTURE. 

We did not get into the position we are in because of the
greatness of our culture. We were taught to 'OBEY' and we we got
the best spiritual teachings in the world. But what did it also
teach us - subservience. Never to question and think. We made our
structures and powerful 'bullied' the masses. The culture took
a turn for the worse. The masses were turned into 'sheep'. This
is very prominent even today. A culture which promotes
'subservience' is a disgusting one.

Be 'humble and obey' - A great way to exploit.

>In a country like US, even to this day there 
>are people who worship evil, sacrifice other human beings 
>as offerrings to Saturn. Isn't that ridiculous compared  
>to our culture. 

Tell me that this does not happen in India. 


>And you claim that you rather have the  
>human rights, pride (for what ?) and the wealth of an 
>american. 

U seem to be a great example of what our masses are but should
not be. I personally would not consider myself a human being with
an intellectual capacity if I did not have pride. Pride and
belief in myself is an essetial component of my living self.

>What human rights have you been denied if you 
>ever stayed in India ?. 

None - but look at India today - Kashmir, Punjab.

>What social acceptance have you gained staying in US ?. 

What has the following got to do with the subservient nature of
'Indian Culture'. 

>I don't know about you but i know a good no. of indians who have
>no other choice but to live like cocoons within themselves
>because they can neither accept the cultural veracity nor can
>they stick to their own culture. 

This again might be due to many rasons - one of which might be
our 'subservient' attitudes. When we have problems looking at
'whites', 'blacks' etc as 'equals' - we have problems with mixing
with them.

 
>>How does one change the mentality of a nation? 
 
 
>By refraining from insidious comments like yours. By being  
>critical about anything from a constructive point of view. 
>When you criticize something, it would be acceptable if you 
>could criticize that something by stating the pros and cons. 
>Cristicisms that find origin in your mind one fine morning 
>are not criticisms but would be construed as ignorant babblings
>of a immature human.

I am surprised that U think that the above were 'ignorant
babblings' and then U went on to so vehemently deny the
'subservient' attitudes of our culture.
 
>>We only live in the cesspool we create. 
 

>Better than living in a cesspool others created. That's worse. 
>Sufferring for our own mistakes is better than sufferring due
>to others mistakes. Atleast, we have no reason to think that we
>don't deserve the sufferring. 

Can U believe the crap U have written above. Its this attitude
that has got us to where we are. Its the above 'fatalistic'
attitude that has been part and parcel of our culture for
centuries. U just said that we DESERVE the suffering we have. I
should not be shocked with the above as it is what I have been
arguing about. U seem to understand our 'suffering' but U cannot
relate it to our culture. U also seem to accept it as something
we DESERVE. We do not 'deserve' it but we have created it - and
we live in it.
 
 (Some patriotic stuff deleted)

>Your friend doesn't represent the many educated, knowledgeable 
>Indians who know better than either of you. 

Ah - but my friend U seem to assume that there are a lot of
Indians who are educated. Unfortunately this is not true. I am
talking about the average Indian. Also among the educated - If
I may say - a fair person is looked up to in our dreadful
culture.
 
 
(stuff deleted) 
 
 
>What a crude conclusion ? 

 And your conclusion about my friend and I are not crude
conclusions.
 
 
 
 
>But, forgot to learn to live like a cosmopolitan. You need  
>some Indianization ( excuse my usage of English) before 
>you post another article. Or even better, you need some 
>education about how broad minded one has to be before one 
>writes ridiculous, meanful crap on the net. 

I wish U could take some of the advice U give. I love this 'do
what I say - not what I do' attitude of yours. U seem to have
severe problems with the content of my article. A broad minded
person would argue the merit of some of the statements - not poke
fun and ridicule the person writing it. All U seem to attempt to
do is try and ridicule me. I am sure that this is the work of a
'broad minded' person.
 
John Ainikkal 
I think - Therefore I am. 
'Aotearoa' - Land of the long white cloud 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian