HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nlt@gboro.glassboro.edu (N. L. Tinkham)
Subject: Practical witchcraft?  (Partly about US politics)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Glassboro State College
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:08:18 GMT

Dan Holzman wrote:

>>As one data point, there is my student and new covenmate, Ascha.  When I was
>>introduced to her by a mutual friend, she was 14.  She is now 16.  Normally, I
>>would not teach one under the age of 16, but she has her head on straight and
>>is capable of making informed and reasoned decisions.
>
>>(People wondering about legality take note: I have her parents' permission and
>>blessing to teach her Witchcraft.)

and Tom Brewer replied:

>Maybe this doesn't bother anyone else. And if it's only a joke, well....
>But if it's real, then it seems like the family values being endorsed are
>the values of the sin of rebellion (is that not how witchcraft is described?).

I think the example of Ascha was only meant to illustrate that some young 
teenagers are mature enough to make adult decisions and some are not.  Bill
Chapman had claimed that no young teenager is capable of making good adult
decisions.  Dan Holzman offered a counterexample from his own experience:
Dan doesn't consider most people under the age of 16 to be mature enough to
make an informed decision to study Witchcraft, but he knows one teenager
(Ascha) who is unusually mature for her age.  The parallel for the legal
situation is that in general, teenagers are immature enough that they're
not considered capable of making informed judgements on medical, sexual, and
legal matters; but some teens are unusually mature, and if a teenager is
dissenting from the parents in a well-reasoned manner on an important issue,
then Ms. Clinton apparently wants the court to be able to uphold the wishes
of the teen rather than the wishes of the parents.

The "family value" involved is caring for minor children in the best
possible way.  Some people evidently believe that obedience to parents
is always in the best interest of the child; others believe that children
occasionally make better choices than their parents, and that sometimes
the court should intervene on behalf of the child.  I think there is both
merit and danger of abuse in both positions (well, not that anyone asked
me -- I'm not running for office! :-) ).

Witchcraft is a controversial example to have used in this newsgroup, but
it was a straightforward example, not a joke.  And it doesn't bother me:
Dan has the right to pass on his religion to others, and it sounds like
he is very careful to ensure that new members of his coven know what they're
getting into before they join.

_____________________________________________________________________________

                                              Nancy Tinkham
                                              nlt@gboro.glassboro.edu
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 08:27:54 -0400
From:         "Toni J. Benner" <tjbenner@COLBY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Divorce and Remarriage
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

Steve, thanks for your explanation. It does make things more clear. I would
be interested  to know  some of the  reasons why the decree is granted.
This girl had a child, so they had had marital relations. I remembered
after I posted that the reason they were asked to pay at the remarriage
was because her husband was divorced. They refused to pay, but she  is
still attending church. It does help to understand one  anothers'
church. I thought after I posted that  I shouldn't have  said anything,
but I'm glad I got  an explanation.
Toni
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:21:23 EDT
From:         WJPOWELL@SUVM.BITNET
Subject:      Peacemaker

Hi Brenda:
As I was reading your posting that was intended (my assumption) to
douse the flames of anger that have been stirring over the electronic
airwaves, I couldn't help from being reminded of the following scripture
verse:
"Blessed are the makers and maintainers of PEACE, for they shall be called
the sons of God!" Mat. 5:9 (amplified).
Thank you for helping us to keep before us the love of God and the manner
it ought to be displayed. Lets keep the peace
In Him,
William.
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 09:50:36 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      I'm dead

Hi All:

Reading Watchman Nee, I just came to a very important realization.  I'm
dead.

That's right, dead.  Non-viable.  Ex.  Former.  Dead.

When Christ died on the cross, we died with him.  All of us, saved and
unsaved.  This world is dead and still walking around.  We just don't
have the sense to lie down.

But when Christ was resurrected, so were we.  Made *entirely* again.
Not just changed.  Not just transformed.  Re-made.  The person I used
to be does not *exist*.  I am a new creature in Christ, made only to
serve Him.

I never understood that before.  I listened to the lies and temptations
of Satan and believed that I could carry some of the dead weight with
me.  But the old self is dead and buried.  To consort with it is
spiritual necromancy.  When I rely on my old ways of thinking and acting
without consulting God who owns me, I am the one who is digging up
the corpse and divining from the entrails (hope this isn't getting
too graphic).  Only God knows what is right and true.  Only God has the
right to control me.  I belong no longer to myself, but to the Lord
Himself, and it is His Word and His message that I must rely on.

Praise God that I am dead!  May I ever remain so, even until the day
I meet the Lord face-to-face, seeing and being seen, knowing fully and
being fully known.

The Devil is a liar and the ruler of a dead planet.  You and I are
no longer in his domain, and we can see the dead for what they are.
In a world of ghosts, Christians walk as *living* spirits, re-born
through the blood of Christ.  In the domain of the Devil, we serve
another Master.

Maybe everybody else already knew this.  But I never fully *understood*
it until now.

Praise God that I am dead with Christ, and alive with Him!

                                            Love INC,
                                                     ---Kerry
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Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 09:18:19 -0400
From:         "Toni J. Benner" <tjbenner@COLBY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Changing Opinions (Edify)
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

Ian, the Congress has a Democratic majority; therefore, the Pres. has
trouble getting his ideas across, but he is blamed  for all of the
problems. I don't know if you read the article on Christia about
Pres. Bush's interview with Pat Robertson, but in it he mentioned
that 2/3 of the budget is already locked in. In other words, these
programs have been enacted, but the cost of them keeps going up
every year. Therefore, we need to reexamine each one of these, but
the Congress is balking. Also, when there was legislation to balance
the budget, enough voted against it so that it did not pass. I can't
believe that there are still congressmen who don't see the need for
a balanced budget. They probably see the need, but are too selfish
to care. I'm not an expert on this, but I just get upset when
Pres. Bush is blamed for our economic problems, when it was the
Democrats who instituted most of the spending in the past.
Toni
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 09:23:00 EDT
From:         "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
Subject:      Flesh and NT translation.
X-To:         christia <christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>

James is certainly correct here about the word translated "flesh."  Romans
7 demonstrates vividly how this distinction between old and new natures is
made.

This brings up an important point.  My wife and I are engaged on a
translation project of the entire NT, (will take 10 years or so).  We are
discovering that theological context is as important as lexical context in
translation.  What this means, basically, is this:  You can't necessarily
go to your interlinear English-Greek NT and gain an immediate understanding
of what is being said.    To understand an obscure passage, or word, you
must not only get a literal translation, but try to get into the mind of
the writer, which is why there are so many different translations.

For example, here is how we translated the first verse of the Gospel of
John:

At first was the word, and the word was with the God, because the word was
God.

Oh nuts!  I've wandered a long way from "flesh."  Sorry about that.
Translation is one of my passions, and I get carried away easily.  See
upcoming posts on evolution of the NT.

Dan Graham
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 08:28:12 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Reply to Carol on mult. persons

Dear Carol Slingo ;

I know you took some time to get your reference citation definition of
mult. personality disorder.  Thanks for your time and effort!
One thing though ...

The Scriptures give explicit evidence (SEE the Gospel accounts) to the effect
that many emotional/mental problems are DEMONIC.  Jesus healed an epileptic
by casting out the demon who was inflecting the disease upon the man.
One man, insane and violent, was physically uncontrollable, but was healed
by Christ who rebuked the myriads of demons and cast them out of the man.
The man was then sane, calm, reasonable, spoke rationally to Jesus, and was
completely healed of his affliction (SEE "Demoniac of the Gadarenes" account).

One woman was PHYSICALLY impaired for over a decade and a half by being stooped
over.  Christ healed her and stated that "this woman had been afflicted by the
devil for these many years."

Specifically, God made us with one personality each.  Each one of us has one
spirit ... ONE MIND ... that is made in the image of God in that we
communicate and think in propositional statements (subjects and verbs, i.e.).

The Scriptures do not state that we as humans can NORMALLY possess more
than one personality.
However, in the case of the Demoniac of the Gaderenes, the man possessed
hundreds and hundreds of "personalities."

A personality, Biblically speaking, is equal to a person.
The Word says that a man is a PERSON with a SINGLE mind and a SINGLE body.
That body dies and it is put into the ground and the spirit goes before
God for judgement. If a person had, normally speaking, more than one
personality -- mind, which person/mind would God judge for its actions on
the Day of Judgement?

When we say that a person has "multiple personalities" what we actually have
is multiple PERSONS.  However, a demon is a person who possesses no corporeal
body as we define the term. Humans are the only persons in existence who
possess BOTH a corporeal body and a mind/spirit.
Obviously a person does not NEED a body to be a person, for Christ was once
pre-incarnate as the second person of the Triune God.  He was no less a person
than we who have physical bodies, yet He was not a human person prior to being
incarnate.  After becoming a man, Jesus was a person who was also  a human
being.The only other issue would be pre-incarnate "Christophanies."

Here is the point :  A Man has ONE body and ONE mind.  He is a single person
... a single human with ONE personality.  To possess more than one personality
is to possess more than one PERSON under the roof of one body.
The only valid way to have multiple personalities without being Demonically
possessed is to have, say, a room full of people gathered for some purpose.
Here, are multiple personalities, each mutually exclusive to one another ...
one mind per body.  Anything else is DEMONIC!




                                Jesse Carnes
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Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 23:20:23 EDT
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Parental Control/Abuse (Was: On Not Living in a Vaccum)
              BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU

We should all spend time in prayer for Brenda's brother.  I know an
ex-alcoholic that became a non-drinker.  His wife and I prayed and I am sure
her church was praying.  God can do what seems an impossible dream.
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 12:13:50 CDT
From:         Carol Slingo <slingo@CASBAH.ACNS.NWU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: trying to read Prophet--libraries
              at Jul 22, 92 12:03 pm

Kerry mentions the difficulty in getting a Christian book through
Interlibrary loan.  Since I've never had any problems getting books that
way, I'd be interested in true life experiences.  (Of course my research
area is pretty wide and covers a lot...).

In Christ,

Carol Slingo
From: peacock5293@iscsvax.uni.edu (Greywolf)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Lightpen Press
Date: 21 Jul 92 00:53:38 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

If you are a Christian cartoonist looking for a place to get published, here's
someone you might want to get in contact with:

Lightpen Press
c/o G. Raymond Eddy
1156 Panama Rd. SE
Carrollton, OH  44515-9659

G. Raymond Eddy is currently putting out a
non-explicitly-Christian-but-Christian-stuff-is-okay zine called "The Fur's
Gonna Fly", and a few comics, including "Galen the Saintly".  Send an SASE for
more info.  (We're talking *small* press here.)
-- 
-Jordan            ..      PEACOCK5293@iscsvax.uni.edu
                  .OO.     Jordan Peacock (Jordan Greywolf)
                  O/\O     (New Address):  1610 Parker
                   --                      Cedar Falls, IA  50613
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:43:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: SO-CALLED PRO-CHOICERS

<First, experience. My wonderful wife was involved with a pro-life group
<that attempts to counsel young women as they entered abortion clinics.
<This group (not Operation Rescue) would simply approach the women going
<into the clinic and try to share with them that there are other options,
<and then offer their help (as well as, the Gospel). Of course, the
<managers of the clinic (N.O.W.) did not appreciate these women receiving
<any more information. Members of NOW physically blocked off the pro-lifers
<from even speaking to the women in need. It appeared that the only choice
<they were interested in was a choice FOR abortion.

In my experience as a clinic escort in New York, and my wife as a worker in a
clinic, the "counselors" would attempt to give the "counseling" whether the
person being "counseled" wished it or not.  This "counseling" frequently took
the form of guilt tripping, physical imposition of the "counseler" between the
woman in question and the clinic, physical intimidation, and so on.  Perhaps
your group is the exception which proves the rule, but it is these other groups
which resulted in measures being taken against them.

In New York, OR was sued for injunctive relief.  The resulting court order was
that two people could speak to a woman attempting to enter a clinic in normal
street conversation, provided that the woman wished to be spoken to, for as
long as the woman wished to be spoken to.

<Waiting periods,

make abortion more difficult to obtain, if not impossible, for women who
cannot afford to travel long distances to a clinic twice in one week.

<parental consent,

takes the decision away from the person who's body and life are at risk.

Dan
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 13:46:00 CDT
From:         MB09@SWTEXAS.BITNET
Subject: Re: US Politicians Twisting Scripture

From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>

>You are absolutely correct.  Jackson's use of Scripture is even worse
>than Clinton's because he is a Reverend, and people assume that he
>speaks with some authority on these matters.  I expect Cuomo, Clinton,
>Gore, and so on to speak out of ignorance on details of the Bible.  I
>am disgusted that Jackson would sink so low.


I learned something very interesting yesterday about Jesse Jackson.  It
seems that Jesse Jackson is not a "Reverend" at all.  It seems he changed
his name to "Reverend Jesse Jackson" when Martin Luther King was popular
so that he would sound important and people would listen to him.  Does
anyone else know anything about this?  It sounds like a rather deceiving
trick to me if this is true.

May Christ's Peace and Love be with you,

Michelle
      _|_
       |
"With God all things are  possible."  Matthew 19:26

*******************************************************
* Michelle R. Bruce                                   *
* Programmer I                                        *
* Southwest Texas State University, San Marcos, Texas *
* about 30 miles South of Austin, Texas               *
* and 40 miles North of San Antonio, Texas            *
*******************************************************
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Organization: Temple University/SCT Computer Services
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 10:11:36 EDT
From:         "Roger A. Phyall" <ROGER@TEMPLEVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Fact?
              24 Jul 1992 00:10:43 EDT from <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>

On Fri, 24 Jul 1992 00:10:43 EDT Angela Zimmerman said:
>
>>
>>> This leads the audience to believe that God would be supportive of the
>>> entire statement, when in fact the opposite is true.
>>
>>How do you know it as *fact*?
>------------
>
>fact: Something that actually exists; reality; truth
>
>How can you know for a fact what God is thinking?  You can quote the
>bible all you want but how can you *know* as *fact*?  It's impossible,
>especially since God is not a being that exists beyond a shadow of a
>doubt.  It can't be fact that a being who hasn't even been proven has
>a specific thought about an action.  You can believe that God has this
>thought, and maybe he does, but it isn't fact.  Which leads me to something
>else.  How can a human know what God thinks?

Proceeding backwards.......

    The Holy Spirit in us keeps us in sync with God's THINKING.

    Thine own definition of the word "Fact" says it all......

         We believe that God is real and does exist, that's reality so "FACT!"

         And don't we all believe that God is "faithful and TRUE"? again "FACT"

    As for "a shadow of a doubt" or as Bob says:  "a reasonable doubt"; I have
to ask the question have we lost our faith over one stupid speech and the use
of one word from our vocabulary?

     We should remain aware that politics is just another "render unto Ceaser"
that we must live with.  But we must not let it overtake us till we lose sight
of what and who we are.

                             IN HIS NAME & LOVE,

|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|                            |    Cordially & Sincerely yours,  |
| Temple University (038-15) |                                  |
| Computer/Math Bldg. Rm 851 |         Roger A. Phyall          |
| Broad St. & Montgomery Av. |       VM System Programmer       |
| Philadelphia,PA 19122-2585 |          (215) 787-1292          |
|                            |                                  |
|        Internet:           |              Bitnet:             |
|   ROGER@VM.TEMPLE.EDU      |           ROGER@TEMPLEVM         |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 07:57:00 MDT
From:         MARCHIBOLD@MSCD.BITNET
Subject:      P

Sorry - the subject is supposed to be prayer request.

My 18 month old grandson, David, is having hernia surgery today.  Please
pray for him, his parents, and his brother and 2 sisters (the youngest of whom
is 4 weeks old).  Thank you.

In His Love
Molly Archibold MARCHIBOLD@MSCD
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: systematic theology
Date: 26 Jul 92 09:01:23 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
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"The Bible speaks to us of the life and work of God, and since "life" is
greater than its manifestation, it cannot be expressed completely in any
logical or theological form."
                               Kokichi Kurosaki

"It is not the terms but the substance that matters."

                               Ruth Burrows


Christ is the Life.  Christ in you is your Life.  Christ is the substance of
the things you've always hoped for.  He is the Jewel that is buried in your
field.  He is the Treasure that is "in" the little piece of walking earth
that is you.  Don't just talk about that Treasure, dig it up, hold it and
observe how it (He) really holds you.  You are to be a pearl - not to scientif-
ically analyze everything, but to become a gateway into the Kingdom of God,
the Holy City.

Christ, the Living One, has been with you long before you were with Him.
Now, know Him, not as you know Abraham Lincoln was a president, but as you
know your wife, or as you know your husband.  Know Him with an internal kiss.
                                               Peace, Zane.
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