HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: michael@psych.toronto.edu (Michael Gemar)
Subject: Re: Medicine & the Mall
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 22:35:26 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.161557.18408@pixel.kodak.com> young@serum.kodak.com writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.170523.22855@psych.toronto.edu> michael@psych.toronto.edu (Michael Gemar) writes:
>>
>>In article <1992Dec11.011125.11182@imagen.com> avi@seal.imagen.com writes:
>
>[...]
>
>>>The idea of extending compassion to plants is not easy to digest, but if
>>>your "ethical category" relates  to only those life forms YOU so conveniently
>>>choose to include, while excluding other deserving of this compassion, then
>>>you are unfortunately a hypocrite.
>>
>>
>>I take it you avoid such hypocricy by only eating rocks?
>
>	Or perhaps there is a simple acceptance that, for humans to live,
>	some other species must die...and that the death of one species is
>	no more or less significant than the death of another.

Does "other species" include humans?  If not, what *ethical* ground do
you have for excluding them?

- michael
From: hopper@cs.ucsd.edu (Steven L. Hopper)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Organically grown foods (was Re: What's the Best Juicer)
Date: 20 Dec 92 22:45:40 GMT

georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:

>If organically grown foods do taste better, are better for the environment,
>and everything else, then I wonder why fertilizers and pesticides are
>used at all. There's got to be some profit-motivated reason, but I don't
>know what it is.

>I dislike the dyes and waxes used to make produce appear to be something
>it is not. There is nothing unhealthy about it, but it is dishonest because
>dyes and waxes misrepresent the quality of the produce to the consumer.


I imagine your guess of a profit-motivated reason hits the nail on the
head.

I just heard earlier this week, on a morning talk show, that most of the
fruits and veggies that this country consumes in the winter come from 
countries that use pesticides that are banned in this country!  
Bananas were cited as particularly heavily abused in this catagory.  
I'm wondering, would the sprays, etc., used on these fruits be systemic 
or does all the "yuk" remain on the skins only.  I of course know about 
the gassing of bananas for ripening purposes, but that's not what the 
focus of the information was referring to.

What the hell good is banning DDT, for instance, if the FDA permits food
to be imported grown with these very same products!



Steve
From: eli@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Elihu Lubkin)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Lowfat French fries
Date: 12 Dec 1992 14:01:13 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
: 
: FAT FREE FRENCH FRIES!  (is this not an oxymoron)
: 
: For example, one can produce some very tasty and completely fat
: free "French Fries" by simply steaming the potatoes until soft
: (not too soft), then cutting them up into chips.  Now, one simply
: baking them on a glass baking pan (the pan does NOT need to be
: oiled, and chips are simple turned over once during baking to
: very lightly brown both sides).  Alternatively, you can freeze
: the cut chips first and then bake if one prefers an extra mushy
: interior as we find with fried chips.
: 
      These are no more FrenchFries than the things I make.
      But the things I make are what I look for (and almost never get)
      in true FrenchFries:

          Peel potatoes and cut across in slices as thin as you can
          get them. Microwave on high until theyr'e brown and crisp
          --the trick is to keep them from burning up--I don't want 
          anything 'mushy' here.
                           --thelma








Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: 900082m@ace.acadiau.ca (KATHLEEN MCLEAN)
Subject: Panir????
Keywords: indian cheese thing
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:30:04 GMT

	I'm looking for a recipe for what I think is called "panir."
It's this curd-like cheese I've had in curries.  If anyone has one, or knows 
what I'm talking about, could you email me some info?

	900082m@max.acadiau.ca

or at the address above.
Thanks!
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@serum.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Subject: Re: Medicine & the Mall
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 17:13:25 GMT

In article <tara.724656637@starburst.umd.edu> tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott) writes:
>
>I can't believe that no one has mentioned that by eating plants and
>not animals, the net result is that much less plants are consumed.
>When animals are eaten, roughly 16 times the plants are consumed by
>the animal, which we then consume.  So even if ethically minded people
>wanted to be as ethical as possible, yet still remain alive, they
>would eat as low on the food chain as possible.  This means eating
>plants. 

	This argument has been mentioned a number of times, even in this
	thread.

	You are, of course, assuming that to eat anything EXCEPT plants
	is NOT ethical.  You're entitled to your opinion, certainly, but
	you won't find universal agreement with it.  Of course the next
	claim is that it doesn't matter whether anyone agrees, because
	you're "right" and they're not...a claim which cannot be
	substantiated by any reference to what is absolutely "right"
	and "wrong."  It is your opinion, nothing more, but if it works
	for you, then so be it.  There are those for whom it does not
	work and I would hope that you would afford them the same tolerance
	of opinion that you would have them afford you.

[...]


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Cauliflower Marranca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 05:44:51 GMT



                      CAULIFLOWER MARRANCA

     "'Tis an ill cook that cannot lick his own finger"
               Shakespeare (Romeo & Juliet IV. ii.)
               
     "'Tis an ill-favoured cook that can lick his or her own
     fingers and doesn't refrain from doing so"  :-)
               Ted the poetaster
     
          
This is one of my favourite ways to eat this fine cruciferious
vegetable :-)


INGREDIENTS:

     1 small head of cauliflower (or 1/2 of head of a medium
          sized cauliflower)
     3/4 cup of brown rice
     3/4 millet
     2/3 grated tofu cheese
     1/2 cup chopped onion
     lemon juice (from 1/2 of a lemon)
     1 tsp basil
     dash of black pepper


INSTRUCTIONS:

Mix millet and rice into 3 cups of water and cook for about 30
     mins.
Chop cauliflower into small chunks and soak in plain or salted
     (optional) water.
Using a large cooking pot, saute onions in water and lemon juice.
     Add basil & pepper and saute until the onions are soft.  Now
     add the cauliflower and steam until cauliflower begins to
     turn soft (don't over-cook)
In a casserole dish place the lightly cooked cauliflower and mix
     in the cooked millet and rice.  Once mixed, then add in the
     tofu cheese and mix again.
Toss into the oven and cook at 375 for 30 to 45 minutes.


                      Happy vegetarian epulation,

                                    ted


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: bbeck@igc.apc.org
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: water filters
Date: 17 Dec 92 08:52:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:92351.092134SPKBB@cunyvm.bitnet:-1609766357:cdp:1451200012:000:1487
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!bbeck    Dec 17 00:52:00 1992


Judy Gerber <SPKBB@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes: 

>Can anyone recommend a good water filter. I don't care if the filter 
>is charcoal, because, even though thousands of years ago,  charcoal 
>may have come from animal sources, everything on the earth has absorbed 
>animal, vegetable and mineral sources.These animals were not exploited 
>or tortured by mankind, but are part of the natural evolution of all things. 
>thank you. 


A few months ago I purchased a water filter from Real Goods via mail.
(800) 762-7325. They offer a wide variety of filters, as well as a water
testing service. As I live in an apartment and did not want to 
monkey with plumbing modifications, I opted for a countertop model that
attaches to the end of the sink faucet with a divert switch. (Sterling Spring
Eco Resource). A charcoal filter that removes chlorine and lead.

Result: great tasting water. No plastic jugs to lug from supermarket.
Has removable filter that needs changing once a year or so.

Just today I received a shower head filter that removes chlorine.
Many people fret about very tiny amounts of toxic substances,
but chlorine, according to risk factor studies, is by far the 
most dangerous substance we encounter on a daily basis. Plus 
there are some who advocate a ban of chlorine due to ozone layer
concerns (see Earth Island Journal's recent issue.)


Real Goods has an expert whom you can consult with over the phone 
about filters. Note: they may be a bit busy during holiday season.
From: mattb@sdd.hp.com (Matt Bonner)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: McDonald's phone-in campaign
Date: 16 Dec 1992 17:54:33 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, San Diego Division
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpsdlg16.sdd.hp.com

In article <1992Dec14.191219.2752@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu>, red_trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
|> I've already posted this, I think, but since some folk
|> have been suggesting dowing a phone in campaign on McDonald's
|> I thought it'd be appropriate to post it
|> again.
|> 
|> * McDonald's, Campus Office Building, Kroc Drive, Oak Brook IL 60521.
|> (708) 575-3000.  Possible suggestion:  grain- or bean-based entree.
|> 

I called McD's this morning and gave them my two cents worth, the
woman I talked to seemed fairly receptive, but I do get the feeling
that the more people that call, the more they'll care.  

I remember when Vegetarian Times listed the number to call at Nike 
to ask for their list of non-leather shoes, I couldn't get through 
for days.  When I finally did, the operator actually sounded weary, 
and asked me if I had read about this number in VT.  Nike has had a 
growing number of non-leather shoes ever since.  

I encourage everyone to call McDonald's and ask them to provide 
vegetarian burgers.

Matt
-- 
Matt Bonner                  |  Email: mattb@sdd.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard Company      |  Snail: 16399 West Bernardo Drive
Ink-jet Components Division  |         San Diego, CA  92127-1899
From: howard@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Pets and animal rights
Date: 18 Dec 92 10:03:25 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Dec17.202723.28810@super.org>, wheeler@super.org (Ferrell S. Wheeler) writes:
> Here are two manufacturers/distributors of vegetarian and vegan dog and
> cat food.  They advertise in Vegetarian Times magazine and the Animals'
> Agenda magazine.
> 
> Wow-Bow Distributors
> 309 Burr Road
> East Northport, NY  11731
> (516) 254-6064
> (800) 326-0230
> 
> We use Nature's Recipe which we get from Wow-Bow Distributors
> for our 4 dogs.  

Nature's Recipe is a company in California, but Wow-Bow Distributors
can send it to you mail order. As I said in the previous post, it is
a very reputable company that had been making meat-based dog food
for the show-dog crowd for years before they started producing 
vegetarian dog food. It comes in 20 pound bags, and costs
around $20 plus about $5.00 a bag shipping. You should also check
your local stores- the Drug Town 1/2 mile from my house gets it in, 
so I buy it there rather than Wow-Bow, though I still order canned
food from Wow-Bow. 

By the way, Wow-Bow makes the best dog biscuits in the world....they're
HUGE, and of course, vegetarian. Great Christmas gifts for friends
with dogs. 

-Mary Howard



Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@serum.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Subject: Re: Medicine & the Mall
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 16:15:57 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.170523.22855@psych.toronto.edu> michael@psych.toronto.edu (Michael Gemar) writes:
>
>In article <1992Dec11.011125.11182@imagen.com> avi@seal.imagen.com writes:

[...]

>>The idea of extending compassion to plants is not easy to digest, but if
>>your "ethical category" relates  to only those life forms YOU so conveniently
>>choose to include, while excluding other deserving of this compassion, then
>>you are unfortunately a hypocrite.
>
>
>I take it you avoid such hypocricy by only eating rocks?

	Or perhaps there is a simple acceptance that, for humans to live,
	some other species must die...and that the death of one species is
	no more or less significant than the death of another.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@clpd.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Subject: Re: Oganic Foods "Non-essential"???
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@clpd.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 17:17:07 GMT

In article <altar.724750862@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:

[...]

>     Relative yield and composition of vegetables grown with
>     composted manures compared with mineral fertilisers; result
>     of a 12 year experiment.
>
>     Yield:  24% lower
>     
>     Desirable components
>          23% higher dry matter
>          18% more protein
>          28% more vitamin C
>          19% more total sugar
>          13% more methionine (important amino acid)
>          77% more iron
>          18% more potassium
>          10% more calcium
>          13% more phosphorous
>     
>     Undesirable components:
>          12% less sodium
>          93% less nitrate
>          42% less free amino acids
>     
>     from Schuphan (1975).  "Yield Maximisation Versus Biological
>          Value"  QUAL. PLANT, 24: 281-310.

[...]

   Perhaps, in the spirit of the holiday season, you might see your way
   clear to give us the _absolute_ numbers instead of the percentages?  A
   $1 increase in hourly wage is, after all, a 100% increase in salary to
   one earning only $1 an hour, but the final rate of $2 an hour is still
   abysmal on an absolute scale.  Similarly, an increase in potassium, for
   example, from 1 microgram to 1.18 micrograms is an 18% increase but is
   utterly insignificant, nutritionally speaking.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar)
Subject: Re: Help with non-perishable snacks for New Vegan
Organization: UTCS Campus Access
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:26:58 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.191911.21650@pencom.com> ph@pencom.com writes:
# In article <Bz14Cz.5xL@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom  
# Molnar) writes:
# 
# > Granola ain't low fat.  Not even close.
# 
# Is this true?
# I make my own out of oats, dried fruit, spices and honey.
# Oh yeah, sometimes I DO throw in coconut...

Patrick,
	Not if you make your own and do not include nuts, seeds, oil or
coconut.  My comment really pertains to the store-bought kind.  That kind
of granola is pretty high in fat.

I wish I could try your ganola sometime :-)

Regards,
Tom
From: tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Buying fresh fruit by mailorder
Date: 18 Dec 92 05:08:30 GMT

georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:

>I've been disappointed in the quality of citrus fruit available in
>Maryland, U.S.A. at this time of the year.

>Does anyone have experience with businesses that ship by air express
>fresh citrus fruit to your home from where it's grown? I think most of
>these places are in Florida, but I lack specific details.

Try Beautiful Day, which is right across Route 1.  It's a natural food
store that serves vegetarian food in a cafe in back.  They have a nice
organic food section and offer nice citrus fruit.  Right now they have
two kinds of valencias (both very sweet!), and Satsumas (my absolute
favorite!  Try them if you find them - they're small, peel oh so
easily and are absolutely luscious tasting.  Sweet and no seeds),
grapefruit, lemons, and maybe other kinds of oranges or tangerines.
Shortly there should be better oranges, as it's almost orange season.
Their number, if you wish to contact them for directions, is (301)
345-7013, or 345-6655.  They are located in College Park, on Berwyn
Road across from the 7-11, down about 1/2 mile from Route 1.

--
Tara McDermott               
tara@starburst.umd.edu       
I eat tofu, and I vote.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Doggerel
Date: 14 Dec 92 16:10:53 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle


This was in the syndicated "Mike Mailway" column in this morning's 
paper; I thought it might amuse. 

Q.  What's the "Vegetarian Chant"? 

A.  "Elephants, turtles and birds.  Elephants, 
    turtles and birds.  Vegetarians like to repeat, 
    These are the beasts that eat no meat, and 
    live the longest lives, without a need for 
    butcher knives.  Never a steak or chop or 
    roast.  Vegetarians, the nerds, love to 
    boast with lots of words, why they indeed 
    admire most -- elephants, turtles and birds." 

(Birds??) 

--Barbara
From: avi@seal.imagen.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Medicine & the Mall
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:56:57 GMT
Reply-To: avi@seal.imagen.com
Organization: none

>tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
>     It seems to me that the basic principle of "pain" requires more
>than detection and reaction to damage. I can hook up some sensors to
>my PC and, with only a few lines of code, make it scream bloody murder
>whenever anmyone touches it. I don't think that qualifies as "pain".
>There's nothing going on inside that has the pain; there is not an
>_experience_ of pain.

Your example actually proves exactly the OPPOSITE. With your PC, obviously
some intelligence was inserted into a dumm machine (in the form of a program) `
to serve for the purpose of "pain simulation". But why would the plants have 
such a mechanism ?  What purpose does it serve to program teh plants' DNA to
eact this way ? (other than of course a pain sensor, for self-preservation, etc).

Further, if a bee or a human will simply touch the leaves, nothing will
happen, the plant will NOT react in the same way. But there are MEASURABLE
changes in the plant chemistry when cut, bruised, cooked, etc. (see "the
secret life of the plants"). So, there's definitely a mechanism to both DETECT
and REACT to pain !
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: naomi@rock.concert.net (Naomi T Courter)
Subject: Recipes using Quinoa? 
Organization: CONCERT-CONNECT -- Public Access UNIX
Distribution: rec.food.veg
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:28:34 GMT

I just discovered this grain called Quinoa at a local health food 
store.  I've been adding it to sauteed vegetables (wonderful!), but
I'd like to try something new.  Anyone have any suggestions?  

Thanks in advance for your help. 

Naomi L.T. Courter
naomi@concert.net
-----------------
 

 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: claudiak@i88.isc.com (Claudia Kale (STG))
Subject: Re: Vegetarians or not vegetarians?
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:35:45 GMT

In article <altar.724698210@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
>
>
>claudiak@i88.isc.com (Claudia Kale (STG)) writes:
>
>>Then why do you wish to know the dietary habits of other posters?
>>To what possible use can you apply that knowledge, if not to let it
>>influence your perception of credibility? 
>
>
>I guess I can't speak for Donata, but for myself I think it is
>of helpful to know where people are coming from.  Also,
>it helps to put a human face on the otherwise anonymous, faceless
>names here.  Maybe by helping to personalize things just a little
>we might in turn be better able to understand each other a little
>more.  

Again, I ask: exactly how does it "help" to know whether a poster
is vegetarian or not? Is a vegetarian biochemist a better biochemist
than an omnivorous one? I may be a victim of a limited imagination,
but I can only see that sort of information as prejudicial. Hanging
a tag such as "vegan", "ovo-lacto-vegetarian", "omnivore", or
"fruitarian" doesn't really tell you very much about the person you
labelled. The categories are very one-size-fits-all, and I doubt
that you'd find any two posters in one category who agree on all
the issues raised here. I might even go so far as to wonder whether
labelling posters fosters an "us vs. them" atmosphere?

>
>
>					Happy Holiday Season,
>						ted

Holiday Cheers,
Claudia
From: das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: water filters
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:14:08 GMT
Organization: Yet Another Graphics Project, Bellevue, WA

In article <92351.092134SPKBB@CUNYVM.BITNET> SPKBB@CUNYVM.BITNET (Judy Gerber) writes:
>Can anyone recommend a good water filter. I don't care if the filter
>is charcoal, because, even though thousands of years ago,  charcoal
>may have come from animal sources, everything on the earth has absorbed
>animal, vegetable and mineral sources.These animals were not exploited
>or tortured by mankind, but are part of the natural evolution ofall things.
>thank you.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the above coal, not charcoal?
I thought charcoal was recently burned vegetable/animal matter.

------
Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.ca.boeing.com  // ....uw-beaver!bcsaic!voodoo!das
From: karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegetarians or not vegetarians?
Date: 17 Dec 92 00:07:55 GMT
Organization: NRL

Sorry, Donata, but I don't see why it's necessary to know whether someone
is a vegetarian BEFORE you can read (or evaluate) their post. Why is that
any different than racism, or sexism, or the like? Try substituting the
word "woman" or "black" for "vegetarian" in your post and see how it sounds.
This is the kind of "circle the wagons" thinking that spawns silliness like
Abhay Bulsari's list of participants (perhaps you should email him for a 
copy, I'm sure he'd be happy to send it to you --- caveat emptor, however, as
it is incomplete, entirely subjective, and offensive to some r.f.v. people). 

In case it matters (which it shouldn't), I've been a veg for a very long time and
yet am perfectly willing to converse with rational omnivores. So what if Steve Dyer 
and Rich Young don't "sound" like vegetarians? If you don't like what they
are saying, ignore it. Heck, I ignore numerous postings from certain fellow veggies
in r.f.v. because of content --- should I like their postings more just because 
they're vegetarians?  Certainly, it is a relief to be in the company
of like minds on such a fundamental issue as vegetarianism, especially if one is a
veg for ethical reasons; that's why I enjoy my local vegetarian society so much.
However, the real world ain't like that, and withdrawing from contact with 
carnivores isn't the answer (IMHO). Give them some credit --- except for the 
obvious dickweeds (like the occasional jerks who boast about their hunting prowess,
or burger pig-outs), maybe they want to hear what we have to say. Besides, we can all 
learn something from others, even if it's just how to argue better against them ;^>.

I apologize for the lecture, folks, but I've enjoyed the relative absence of such 
attitudes on r.f.v. for the past few weeks and hate to see them return. I'm sure
we'll get some debates going on this one (sigh). OK, I'll post a recipe to make
up for disturbing the peace, when I get a chance. 


Judy karpen
karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: glick_jer@ccsua.ctstateu.edu
Subject: test please ignore
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:39:47 GMT

testing ignore

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg