HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave)
Subject: Re: What happens when you cross styles?
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:57:00 GMT
Reply-To: stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA
Keywords: Aikido TaeKwonDo

In article <1992Sep10.021729.21037@edsi.plexus.COM>,
rybskip@edsi.plexus.COM (Paul Rybski) writes:
|> One of the professors teaches Aikido at a YMCA nearby.  The class is
|> pretty good and I have been thinking about joining for the time that
|> I'm here (about 3 years).  My question is, would dropping my studies in
|> TKD all of a sudden (something that I feel bad about doing) and taking up a
|> radically different art affect my overall performance in a combat
|> situation?  --front kick, no, wait, I want to grab his arm and fli--
|> BAM!  
|> and that's all there was to little old me!   :-)
|> 
|> Can anybody tell me about their cross-training experiences?  Does it
|> help?  Does it hurt?
|> 

I had studied TKD about 5 years before starting Aikido (I continued
TKD while studying Aikido).  My previous experience both helped and
hindered me.  I picked up some of the techniques faster than my fellow
beginners, but had bad habits that slowed me with others.  For example,
we "karate guys" (as they called me) tend to put a lot of strength into
our techniques.  In Aikido, you're not supposed to do this.  I was
scolded *constantly* to relax my upper body and stop using so much
strength.

The only other problem was that when I started to feel rushed - like
in the line drills where people line up and run at you one after the
other, my leg would come up and start to kick.  It would startle the
person rushing me and amuse everyone else.  Also, sometimes I would
block the person grabbing me rather than using their grab to throw
them.

Overall I think that it was a *very* good thing.  It has smoothed out
my personal style and given me a much better understanding of how to
generate power from a smooth circular motion rather than a hard, fast
linear motion.

Don't worry about the decision between techniques during a "combat
situation".  It is the same sort of decision you make when you decide
to kick rather than punch or vice-versa.  The situation will dictate
the correct sort of response.  Jujutsu or Hapkido stylists (who use
kicks and punches as well as throws and grabs) don't have this problem,
why should you?


Hope this helps,
Joel Stave
stave@apollo.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ahom@yingjow.tnds.bellcore.com (Allen Hom)
Subject: Re: Query: Gung fu in New York City
Organization: Network Data Collection Presentation and Processing Development
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 18:14:40 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.150758.21353@panix.com>, fnord@panix.com (Cliff Heller) writes:
|> In <1992Sep1.225953.21248@nntp.uoregon.edu> toman@darkwing.uoregon.edu (Joseph Toman) writes:
|> 
|> >What gung fu schools are there in Manhattan ? My brother-in-law used to
|> >practice some sort of Chinese style and wishes to start again. The
|> >phrases that came up were 'Shaolin','Northern',and 'longfist' or some 
|> >combination thereof. I have a perfect ignorance of Chinese styles, so I
|> >hope this makes sense. Any help or recomendations would be appreciated.
|> 
|> There's lots of schools in Manhattan.
|> 
|> I'll just plug mine:
|> 
|> Wai Hong's Fu-Jow Pai Kung-FU
|> 
|> at Canal st. just east of Bowery  (2nd floor).
|> -- 
And here's a plug for mine :-)
	Ying Jow Pai (Northern Eagle Claw) - Sifu Shum Leung

as well as a few others I'm more familiar with :
	Sifu Frankie Yee's Hung Gar (Southern style)
	7 Star Praying Mantis (Sifu Chu)
	Hsing-Yi (Sifu Kenny Gong)
	Alan Yee's(?) Northern Shaolin

Like Joseph said, there are PLENTY in Manhattan.  Do your research well
before joining a school!  You can contact me if you would like more info
on my school or Sifu.

hope this helps.
-- 
allen hom
Bellcore
ahom@tnds.bellcore.com
(908)699-5728
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: rybskip@edsi.plexus.COM (Paul Rybski)
Subject: What happens when you cross styles?
Organization: Enterprise Data Systems Incorporated, Appleton WI
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 02:17:29 GMT
Summary: Can TaeKwonDo and Aikido be mixed without weakening the overall form?
Keywords: Aikido TaeKwonDo

I've studied TaeKwonDo Moo Duk Kwan (somebody please correct me on the
spelling if I'm wrong) for two years now.  Unfortunately, moving off to
college has put a dampener on the availability of that style.  Lawrence
University offers TKD style Song Mu Kwan, but I don't particularily care
for the teacher.  I've looked around at other places, but with my
limited budget, I just cannot afford them.

One of the professors teaches Aikido at a YMCA nearby.  The class is
pretty good and I have been thinking about joining for the time that
I'm here (about 3 years).  My question is, would dropping my studies in
TKD all of a sudden (something that I feel bad about doing) and taking up a
radically different art affect my overall performance in a combat
situation?  --front kick, no, wait, I want to grab his arm and fli--
BAM!  
and that's all there was to little old me!   :-)

Can anybody tell me about their cross-training experiences?  Does it
help?  Does it hurt?

-Paul Rybski
Rybskip@edsi.plexus.com

-- 

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ejdath@donner.uucp (25832-dath)
Subject: Re: Boxing and Kicks
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: rec.martial-arts
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 14:57:01 GMT
Summary: boxing stuff 

>This tends to bear out my own experience.  As long as the kicks are
>low level, the boxer is at a disadvantage.  High kicks though are a
>very different matter.
>
>By the way, I also found that most boxers were much quicker on their
>feet than most traditional martial artists.

How about a good sweep?  Not only aren't boxers trained to defend or even
expect a sweep, I think that boxing techniques would be pretty ineffective
from a prone position.

E.J.

Disclaimer, disclaimer, Hey...it's me!
Xref: sparky rec.martial-arts:12202 talk.politics.guns:20993
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: A little on self defense...
Date: 15 Sep 1992 22:48:16 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: concertina

In article <gey4qB2w165w@quake.sylmar.ca.us> hunter@quake.sylmar.ca.us (James Collins) writes:
>2) The mental issue with knives also is pretty tough too.  With a 
>knive you have to get up close, and most people (just my thought at 
>least) don't have what it takes to get down and dirty with blood and guts 
>all over the place...  Guns are sooo nicely impersonal when you need 
>them, just point and boom, no more bad guy, assuming of course that you 
>can hit them :) 

This ignores the oft-reported response of (most?) shooters to having shot
someone.  Generally, the shooter (such as a typical police officer) deals
with long term internal stress and guilt as part of that response.






--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of making many books there is no end...  |  What's wrong with chasing 
                       -- Eccl. 12:12    |  nebulae till 3 am?  |-(
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn)
Subject: Re: Boxing and Kicks
Organization: Network Systems Corporation
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 18:41:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.001222.22906@access.digex.com> cherry@access.digex.com (Cherry Poptart) writes:
>
>3. If you took american boxing and added kicks
>to it, wouldnt it just, eventually, evolve into
>something like Thai kickboxing?   Or not?

Possibly -- this seems to be the case with Kyokushinkai and its
offshoots.  On the other hand, not necessarily: consider Savate, or PKA
style kickboxing.  Neither style is terribly similar to Muay Thai.  And
Savate, like Muay Thai, even allows leg kicks.

The kicking style of Muay Thai has an awful lot to recommend it, but
it certainly isn't the only approach to the problem.

-- 
Peter Hahn           |hahn@network.com|"...Ch'en worked in a drugstore on the
7600 Boone Ave. N    |+1 612 424-4888 |second story...and at noon each day he
Brooklyn Park, MN USA|                |would leave for lunch in an eccentric
55428                |                |way: he would stroll out the window..."
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: krystek@alcor.bms.com (Stanley Krystek)
Subject: Re: Styles in Bloodsport?
Organization: Bristol-Myers Squibb, Macromolecular Modeling
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:31:09 GMT


I could not find the info I previously found on Frank Dux, but he was
training some type of modern Ninja. It was unclear if it was a part of a 
survival class or just a training for various people wanting lifestyle changes.
I will ask my friend when I see him if he ever visited his school.

stan

--
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>==*==<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<>                                                                           <>
<>     .-----.      Stanley R. Krystek, Jr., Ph.D.               .-----.     <>
<>    / \   / \     Bristol-Myers Squibb Pharmaceutical         / \   / \    <>
<>   /   \ /   \    Research Institute                         /   \ /   \   <>
<>   ----- -----    Department of Macromolecular Modeling      ----- -----   <>
<>   \   / \   /    P.O. Box 4000    Room H.3812               \   / \   /   <>
<>    \ /   \ /     Princeton, N.J.  08543-4000                 \ /   \ /    <>
<>     `-----'                                                   `-----'     <>
<>                  (609) 252-4100  FAX: (609) 252-6030                      <>
<>                  INTERNET:  krystek@bms.com                               <>
<>                                                                           <>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>==*==<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Subject: Re: What happens when you cross styles?
Keywords: Aikido TaeKwonDo
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:00:59 GMT

In article <BuDAv0.M3M@apollo.hp.com> stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave) writes:
}In article <1992Sep10.021729.21037@edsi.plexus.COM>,
}rybskip@edsi.plexus.COM (Paul Rybski) writes:
}|> One of the professors teaches Aikido at a YMCA nearby.  The class is
}|> pretty good and I have been thinking about joining for the time that
}|> I'm here (about 3 years).  My question is, would dropping my studies in
}|> TKD all of a sudden (something that I feel bad about doing) and taking up a
}|> radically different art affect my overall performance in a combat
}|> situation?  --front kick, no, wait, I want to grab his arm and fli--
}|> BAM!  
}|> and that's all there was to little old me!   :-)
}|> 
}|> Can anybody tell me about their cross-training experiences?  Does it
}|> help?  Does it hurt?
}|> 
}
}I had studied TKD about 5 years before starting Aikido (I continued
}TKD while studying Aikido).  My previous experience both helped and
}hindered me.  I picked up some of the techniques faster than my fellow
}beginners, but had bad habits that slowed me with others.  For example,
}we "karate guys" (as they called me) tend to put a lot of strength into
}our techniques.  In Aikido, you're not supposed to do this.  I was
}scolded *constantly* to relax my upper body and stop using so much
}strength.

I had TKD for years, then went into Judo.  I spent so much time not
kicking the opponent that I kept getting thrown.  Wrong reflexes, and
I spent more time fighting myself.



Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: joannee@sco.COM (Joanne Eglash)
Subject: Re: conflict avoidance
Reply-To: joannee@fscott.UUCP (Joanne Eglash)
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1992 21:58:41 GMT


I am trying to find the telephone number or address for a group
who teaches self-defense courses for women.  The name of the workshop
is Model Mugging -- I've seen it referred to as BAMM (Bay Area Model
Mugging).  

Please reply via e-mail. 

thank you,

Joanne (joannee@sco.COM  or uunet!sco!joannee)
From: david_yeh@MACMAIL.MED.NYU.EDU ("David Yeh")
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re- MA documentary type mov
Date: 6 Sep 92 12:30:40 GMT


                      Re: MA documentary type movies.....

>such type that I have seen is "Karate Rock". I found it interesting and

I saw a documentary movie called "Fighting Black Kings" (~90 min) about this
type of full-contact karate tournament that was sponcered in Japan.  It
profiled many of the American and Japanese competitors involved, and showed
highlights from the competition itself.  From the quality of the film I would
guestimate that it was made in the 1970's or something.

I can only complain that it didn't stick with karate; it made fun of other MAs
such as Muay Thai and "kung fu."

-DavID
From: garry@alice.att.com (garry hodgson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Boxing and Kicks
Date: 10 Sep 92 21:23:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23652
Reply-To: garry@alice.UUCP ()
Organization: AT&T, Bell Labs

In article <1992Sep8.162941.27669@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:


>I've seen quite a many excelent throws, designed as reactions to a
>kick. Once you start to kick, you are commited to that action and
>it is somewhat dificult to do anything else until you finish the
>kick.

A good kicker need not commit to most kicks.  Flying kicks are a problem,
(you do have to come down eventually).  I've known some people with
such perfect control of their bodies that i'd almost think they needn't
come down from a flying kick until they were good and ready...

>(depending, of course on how experienced you are, but I'd still
>say this is more of a problem than with hand techniques from an
>equally experienced fighter.) Being relatively vunerable during
>the kick is a major disadvantage.

They should be executed to minimize vulnerability, like all other
techniques.

>Kicks are certainly usefull, but they aren't all powerful.

Agreed.  




-- 
Garry Hodgson			A slow winter day
AT&T Bell Labs			A night like forever
garry@alice.att.com		Sink like a stone
att!alice!garry			Float like a feather
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: chungy2@aix.rpi.edu (Yau Felix Chung)
Subject: MA documentary type movies.....
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 22:44:48 GMT


Hello all!  I was wondering if anyone knows of any videos out there that
are documentaries of demostrations of MA competitions.  The only one of
such type that I have seen is "Karate Rock".  I found it interesting and
was wondering if there are any others I have been missing.

Thank you


-F.
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Thai boxing (boxing and kicks)
Date: 11 Sep 92 13:53:02 GMT
Organization: Software Engineering Institute


In article <1992Sep9.001222.22906@access.digex.com> cherry@access.digex.com (Cherry Poptart) writes:
>
>3. If you took american boxing and added kicks
>to it, wouldnt it just, eventually, evolve into
>something like Thai kickboxing?   Or not?

Yeah, I agree, probably not.

I watched a tape by a Thai bantam-weight champ named Chai.  I was amazed at
the sophistication of some of the Thai techniques.  I could see why it was one
of the only styles my teacher gives vocal respect for.  There is a lot of 
control of opponents movements with hands, redirecting kicking with hands,
understanding of force and direction (not as much as in T'ai Chi of course).

A boxer with kicks is PKA in my opinion.  

BTW, have any of you seen a tape by a guy named Marco Lala.  He is in
impressive shape and fights in some bareknuckle, full-contact fights.  I
really had to respect his technique, although here again, there wasn't much
to do with inside techniques, or at least you couldn't seem them in his
matches.
From: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM (Garth)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Silent or vocal sparring?
Date: 5 Sep 1992 00:37:37 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: dojo.west.sun.com

In article 180@news.uwyo.edu, rtravsky@news.uwyo.edu (Rich Travsky) writes:

>Of more interest to me, besides yelling like a banshee, is the sort of
>breathing sounds made during sparring (which brings up breath control
>again). Overly loud or obvious inhaling right a technique is a worse
>telegraph than any physical motion you could do. 

And can be used to set up you opponent...the best fake is one where
no don't have to move.  Just get him used to the "loud inhale" before
attack, and watch him jump when:

	1) You attack without the inhale
	
	or

	2) You inhale, and just twitch you shoulder...often you
	   will get the small reaction you need to land the real blow.



			= = = = = = =
  | Garth R. Doverspike		Sun Microsystems, S.E. Seattle |
  | garth.doverspike@west.sun.com			       |
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Chi Cultivation
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:55:15 GMT
	<1992Sep11.134153.5657@samba.oit.unc.edu>
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: Paul.Elkins@bbs.oit.unc.edu's message of 11 Sep 92 13:41:53 GMT


In article <1992Sep11.134153.5657@samba.oit.unc.edu> Paul.Elkins@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Paul Elkins) writes:

   In article <1992Sep10.214939.5588@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
   >	though this is not in reality the case.  I have always been able to 
   >	dump HUGE amounts of adrenalin into my system at will (indeed I have
   >	had problems at times keeping the levels down since I surge sometimes
   >	just at the thought, which I have always found odd.  Any of you have
   >	this happen?) and can say for certain that this is not happening.
   >
   >	-Andy V.

   I find the comment about generating adrenaline at will interesting.
   I can do that as well, but maybe not "HUGE" amounts; and it takes some 
   concentration.  It drives my blood-pressure way up.
   I, also, find it happening inappropriately or at least out of proportion
   to the "threat", sometimes.  Curious.

I'm not a doctor nor do I play one on television, but...I dimly recall
an endocrinology lecture in which the distinction was made between 
adrenaline and noradrenaline.  Adrenalin is a hormone secreted by the
adrenal glands in response to certain environmental conditions: stress, 
fear, tension, whatever.  The secretion is slow and the effect is 
gradual and sustained.  Over time, it will cause increased heart rate,
rapid respiration, etc.  

Noradrenalin is a substance produced by the firing of the vagus nerve 
(which terminates on the heart...sorry, I know terminates isn't the 
proper term but I'm a net.geek).  Because it's right on the heart, 
it has the almost instantaneous effect of speeding up the heart rate.  
This is the effect that most people are referring to when they talk
about a "jolt of adrenaline".  Given my understanding of the mechanism
above, adrenaline doesn't "jolt"...noradrenaline does.  The mind perceives
danger, the vagus nerve fires, noradrenaline is produced.  So, the "jolt"
effect is definitely something that can be produced by just "thinking" 
about it...but, I suspect, this is only if you are convinced that there
is real danger (that or if you've been reworking your autonomic 
nervous system).
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH
From: butscher@aurora.physics.utoronto.ca (Adrian Butscher)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Back Pain
Date: 10 Sep 92 20:52:01 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto Physics/Astronomy/CITA

I have been having some middle-back pains lately.  The actual pain is felt
in the lower back and it mainly feels like stress/fatigue pain (i.e. not
acute).  My chiropractor and I have identified that the middle back area 
(transition between lumbar vertebrea and, um, mid-back vertebrae) is very sore
and is probably causing all my problems.  

What I want to know is could this be Judo related?  Does anyone have any 
experience with Judo and back pain?  I really hope it's not Judo, because
I just got back into it after a long absence (don't worry, I started slowly), 
and I really like it.  Also, I haven't been doing any lately, but the pain
doesn't seem to go away.

I would appreciate any thoughts you might have.  Please post responses, if
you want to.  Thanks.

Adrian
From: ndd@bal1 (Ned Danieley)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: What happens when you cross styles?
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:09:21 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Paul Rybski (rybskip@edsi.plexus.COM) wrote:
: 
: One of the professors teaches Aikido at a YMCA nearby.  The class is
: pretty good and I have been thinking about joining for the time that
: I'm here (about 3 years).  My question is, would dropping my studies in
: TKD all of a sudden (something that I feel bad about doing) and taking up a
: radically different art affect my overall performance in a combat
: situation?  --front kick, no, wait, I want to grab his arm and fli--
: BAM!  
: and that's all there was to little old me!   :-)
: 
: Can anybody tell me about their cross-training experiences?  Does it
: help?  Does it hurt?
: 


I spent about 7 years in TKD before I switched to Aikido. I found
a lot of things very difficult at first: that urge to front kick
is really strong! (in fact, there was another TKD guy who started
about the same time, and we used to get a lot of laughs when we
worked together: a foot twitch from one of us invariably would set
off the other.)

however, my background in MA helped me progress fairly rapidly,
and I think it's made me a better Aikidoka over all. I decided early
on that, in a street situation, I'd stick with the TKD; as my Aikido
skills have progressed, there are more times when I'd actually use
it, but I still have the elbow strike ready to go. and that's after
12 years in Aikido.

--
Ned Danieley (ndd@sunbar.mc.duke.edu)
Basic Arrhythmia Laboratory
Box 3140, Duke University Medical Center
Durham, NC  27710   (919) 660-5111 or 660-5100
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts