From: luigi@sgi.com (Randy Palermo)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Suncoast Monstrosity
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:05:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA

In article <1992Aug18.130956.28490@leland.Stanford.EDU> altus@leland.Stanford.EDU (Steve Altus) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.222341.4774@odin.corp.sgi.com> luigi@sgi.com (Randy Palermo) writes:
>>>
>>>i've been silent on this issue the whole time...i HATE domes, i HATE astro
>>>turf, and i like being able to see NL teams here while i'm at stanford (and
>>>have no plans to ever live in Tampa again)...but i must tell you, as one who
>>>has lived in both places very recently, no matter what the die-hard 
>>>Giant fans here say, from what I'VE seen i must admit that the fans in 
>>>Tampa/St. Pete deserve a team much more than the ones here...
>>>
>>Why do you say that the fans in Tampa/St. Pete deserve a team more then the
>>FANS in SF? Is it because they built a dome to steal a team from someone
>>else? That can be pushed through with a small minority of the population
>>and politics. Is it because the FANS of the Bay Area voted down the stadium
>>proposals? Couple of facts here: 
>>
>
>Don't be stupid.  Would i post to say i thought the fans were more deserving
>there on my inside info that there is a new stadium there and not one here?
>Oh, boy, let me share my unique knowledge with the net!  No, the dome certainly
>doesn't make the fans there any better (actually, it's their weakness!  if
>they had control over the situation it would have been a retractable roof;
>but, as you point out, the fans don't control these things, the politics do,
>and getting a fixed-geometry dome there was kinda like not getting a stadium
>at all here!).
>
Sorry if I may be missing something here, but from what I have read of
your posts, the unique knowledge that you are sharing is: you know baseball
fans here and there and based on that you have determined that they are
more deserving. I take exception to that. I, and other fans have been 
supporting this team spiritually and financially for 34 years. How can
anyone in Tampa say they deserve the team more then I? 

>>What happens to your theory after the rose is off the bloom. The team
>>has been there for a few years, they're losing, the newness has worn off,
>>they have trouble attracting free agents because they play in dome or 
>>one reason or another, attendance is declining, etc., etc. Will the Tampa/
>>St. Pete area deserve the team more then? The point is: every area is 
>
>yes, they will.
>
Why? You cannot make that kind of a statement without some factual evidence.

>>going to have up times and down times. Fan support will be a function
>>of winning, marketing, dynamics of the region (recessions and such) and
>>uncontrollable elements such as weather, none of which is changable by
>>the fans. One of my bugaboos about the Giants is that they have done a
>
>in the SF bay area it is.  not around the world.  some people are fans
>of the game.  those red-hot St. Louis Cardinals seem to do okay...
>
It would appear, from what I have seen and heard on the net, that the 
Cardinal's management has worked to make their park a quality place for
fans to take their families. The place is clean, well kept and well
managed, unlike Candlestick. You are trying to make the Giants fans
the scapegoat for the failures of the Giants management.

>>miserable job of marketing the team over the years and have failed to
>>develope a large fan base, therefore, if the team doesn't win and win
>>big attendance is down. It's not good enough to simply put a team on the
>>field. You have to give the fan more then that for the dollar. If they
>
>maybe in SF that's true, where people can take their dollar and go to
>the Opera or the Symphony or the Wine Country or the A's or go spend it
>in leather stores or comedy clubs...and with their time can go up the
>coast or down the coast or spend a day in Golden Gate Park or go bike
>riding in the hills.  the competition for people's leisure dollar and
>leisure time aren't as stiff in Tampa/St. Pete.
>
This is absurd! Based on this statement we should next move the Dodgers
to Podunk, Iowa because the fans in LA have plenty of other things to do
and the good folks of Podunk don't have squat. This statement also infers
that the new owners won't have to do much to keep fans coming out. Heck,
they won't even have to put a decent team on the field because there is
no competition for the leisure dollar in Tampa/St. Pete.
>
>I said what i said because it's what i observed to be true in one-to-one
>interactions with people in both places.  I don't expect everyone to agree
>with me.  The only reason i posted was because i've interacted with the 
>fans in both places -- the BASEBALL fans, and the people -- in the 
>"other" Bay Area seem to have a better concept of the game and what it
>means to American culture.  Because a lot of them will go to games no
>matter how the team is doing;  to support the team, to see the other
>teams, and just to see a baseball game!  
>
I swear that I don't mean to be rude, but I find it very difficult to
believe that you have talked to enough knowledgable baseball fans in 
both areas to even remotely come close to forming that kind of opinion.

>
>Don't get me wrong;  i love the (SF) Bay Area, and i love the people.  I
>would much more likely be here than in Tampa.  But from what i personally 
>have seen, i just don't think the fans here deserve a team as much as the
>people in Tampa.  
>
Hogwash!!!!

luigi
--
Randy Palermo   luigi@csd.sgi.com    Fax: (415)961-6502
Silicon Graphics Computer Systems, 2011 N. Shoreline Blvd Mt. View, CA 94039
"Play an accordion, go to jail. That's the LAW"