HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ooblick@intercon.com (Mikki Barry)
Subject: Re: Use of drugs during labor - and electronic monitoring
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 00:18:38 GMT
Reply-To: ooblick@intercon.com (Mikki Barry)
Organization: InterCon Systems Corporation, Herndon, VA

In article <1992Jul27.172107.11273@watson.ibm.com>, lisa@watson.ibm.com (Lisa 
Leutenegger) writes:
> How common is this?  Do most hospitals require EFM?  Do most 
doctors/midwives
> use these things?

My midwife used a fetoscope during labor.  She came over and checked ever 20 
minutes or so and manually listened to the heart tones.

On the other hand, the section rate in the DC area is apparently over 33%, 
there is a HUGE use of epidurals, and lots of drugs otherwise used.  NB, I am 
not saying this is a bad thing.  I just wish that more people were fully 
informed enough of the dangers AND the benefits so that an informed choice 
can be made.



Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mgaudrea@afit.af.mil (Michele L.D. Gaudreault)
Subject: Re: Cute things they say (27 YO)
Organization: Air Force Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:55:39 GMT

>gkl@tse.uucp (Geoff Loker x656) writes:
>> Emily (26 months) has been learning a somewhat garbled version of Humpty
>> Dumpty from her mother:
>> 
>>     Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall. / Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
>>     All the king's horses and all the king's men
>>     Had scrambled eggs for breakfast again.

My personal favorite:

Little Boy Blue come blow your horn
The sheep's in the meadow, the cow's in the corn
Oh where's the little boy who looks after the sheep?
He's out picking flowers for Little Bo Peep.

I'm just a romantic...

Michele - mom to Marie (almost 3) and Liana (8 1/2 weeks)
From: sj@silma.com (Suzanne)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: storing breast milk (was Pregnancy Worries)
Date: 20 Jul 92 21:51:09 GMT
Organization: Silma Inc

M16585@mwvm.mitre.org said
> We stored in both glass bottles(baby bottles)
> and in playtex disposables

For freezing the milk, disposable is better than glass,
because glass leeches nutrients.

----------------------
sj@silma.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: slkg9733@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steven L. Kellmeyer)
Subject: Re: Why Is Peeing Yucky?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 04:34:11 GMT

brett@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Brett K. Carver) writes:

>In misc.kids, slkg9733@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steven L. Kellmeyer) writes:
>> >Note: sterile does NOT mean clean, good for other uses, etc.
>> Sterile DOES mean clean.  There are zero, zip, zilch, none, nada, goose
>> egg, the big Z, null set, number of bacteria in a sterile fluid or on
>			    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Right, sterile means no bacteria, but not necessarily 'clean' (OK, so I didn't
>define what I ment by clean, sorry).  Things can be dirty (ie, not clean) and
>still be sterile.

Sorry, but I'm still missing your point.  I do not see how something can
be dirty if it has no agents in it which cause infectious disease.  Urine
has no agents in it which cause infectious disease.  Odor, yes, but that
has nothing to do with "dirty" (ever smell cooking cabbage?  Yecch.  But
it's not dirty).  No toxic substances, either (Again, a high electrolyte
content, probably, but nothing toxic - after all it came from a living
organism, that is presumably not dying from toxic shock).  So I guess 
you just have a radically different definition of "dirty" than I do.

>> >I think I'll wait for a stream, thank you.
>> Oooh, bad idea.  How do you know there isn't a dead, decaying sheep lying
>> in fifty yards upstream?  Fish defecate AND urinate in it.  Bacteria, mold,

>Please, give me a break.  Sigh...

>I didn't feel like typing in a full EMT-level wound management discussion.

>My POINT was: if I need water I'll look for a source that doesn't come from me.

Ok.  But if the alternate source of water isn't boiled and/or coming out of
a water treatment facility, you're better off with the urine.

>							Brett Carver
>							brett@sr.hp.com

Steve Kellmeyer
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mma@thumper.bellcore.com (Mary Ma)
Subject: Great Chocolate Stain Remover
Reply-To: mma@thumper.bellcore.com (Mary Ma)
Organization: Bellcore MRE
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 14:58:39 GMT

	By accident (and out of frustrations), I used the FDS blood stain
remover product (you can find it in the supermarket in the sanitary products
aisle)  on my daughter's brand new polyester/cotton colored
dress.  It took the stains right out (and that's after the dress
had already gone through one wash (my husband threw it in without
treating it)).
From: peggy@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Pre Conception Books
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 14:49:54 PDT
Reply-To: peggy@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us

In article <Bs1z95.M6u@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, khare@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Kathy Hare - DCS) writes:
...
> My husband and I have decided to start our family. We want to start
> trying in January. What I'm wondering is, does anyone know of a good 
> book on preconception that I should read. It would also help if you
> knew if it was available in Canada. Or if you have any advice to pass
> along it would be most appreciated.
>  
> Thanks in advance 
> Kathy

Most books about pregnancy -- like "What to Expect When You're Expecting",
and many others -- have a section on pre-pregnancy.  Of course I read
them _after_ I got pregnant, when all I could do was say "oops! oh
dear! hm!"

But the book I most wish I'd had is "An Herbal Guide to Your Pregancy
Year" by Susun Weed.  This starts pre-pregnancy and goes through
to nursing.  It has nutritional suggestions and herbal teas that
you can make to tone your body for the massive amount of work it
will be doing.

If anyone, like me, has trouble assimilating vitamins in pills,
or just hates swallowing the 6-12 prenatal vitamins, 4 iron pills,
4 calcium tablets, ad nauseum, per day, herbal tonics are a great
help.  I still took the prenatals, I just didn't have to take as
many.

--peggy dolgenos

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
peggy@cruzio.COM	> WAR is not the way to peace.
			> PEACE is the way.	
							
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mrp@world.std.com (Marjorie R Peskin)
Subject: Misc.Twins Newsgroup
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 03:35:02 GMT

I keep looking on news.groups to see an announcement about the misc.twins
newsgroup, and there has been nothing for weeks.  No second call for
votes, no announcement, no nothing!  Does anyone here know what is going
on?  Does this have to do with mid-summer vacation schedules?

Could you please email the information to me?

Marjorie Peskin			mrp@world.std.com
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 09:44:59 EDT
From: Chris Himes <CLH7@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Use of drugs during labor (% wise)

In article <18598@drutx.ATT.COM>, seb1@leia.dr.att.com (sharon badian) says:
>
>In my childbirth class this week we discussed drugs. The instructor gave
>some statistics for the use of drugs at the hospital where I will deliver.
>She said that about 50% of all women get some sort of drug. About 25%
>get an epidural. She didn't know how women who get both are figured
>in. This is only for vaginal births, not c-sections (where epidurals are
>the norm). She said that in Denver the rate of epidurals was 90%!!! That
>seems outlandish, but since some hospitals/doctors push them, I guess I
>can't be too surprised.
>

My sister in law just had a baby in Denver, but I don't recall the
hospital.  She gave me the same statistic about epidurals, I was shocked!
In fact, her doctor, during one of the later prenatal visits said
something like, "when you get to 5 cm we give an epidural" --like it
was just standard practice.  She had an epidural, and wanted one, so it
didn't bother her, but I was really surprised at the attitude.

Chris Himes
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: M16585@mwvm.mitre.org
Subject: RE: Fears in toddlers
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 12:57:13 GMT

This is in addition to my earlier post---I remembered a couple of other fears
One--The vacuum cleanre-yes, I know everyone says that soothes a baby-NOT
MINE--to this day, he clutches and whimpers when it is on.
 
Two-power tools, saws,routers,air compressors, etc--presumably same type of
loud noise as vacuum
 
Three-Women who smell like the prefume section of dept stores, you know, the
ones that you can smell the fragrance they are wearing from twenty paces
 
Oh well, one never can tell....
 
Ellie
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Subject: Re: Lamaze vs Bradley/Drug free births
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:29:51 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.090816.13640@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> leeba@mcil.comm.mot.com writes:
>She claimed that research showed that
>drugs used during labor affected babies born and their intelligence for years.

That is perhaps a bit strong, but drugs taken by the mother do increase
the risk to the child; hence the concern.  It isn't just a question of
philosophy.  (Note that her views on refusing medication are not what
Lamaze himself said.)

>We were very gung-ho about the different positions and no interventions, etc.  
>Then we went on the hospital tour and I was devastated.  All first-time mothers 
>would have an episiotomy; once you were admitted, you would be attached to an IV 
>and (external) monitor and stay on your back;  delivery was only in stirrups, no 
>other position;  enema required- Yuck!

You have my deepest sympathy.

>The resident at the first birth had never heard of Lamaze

What was he, a @*&%^! TREE SURGEON??  That is mind-boggling.

>and was incredulous 
>when I refused the Demerol they routinely administer.  ("You don't know how much 
>it hurts!"  As if he did!)

But the doctor knows more than you do about everything.  Didn't he explain
that to you?

>My point is, ENCOURAGE all-natural births but DON'T lay a guilt trip on mothers>who end up using drugs or having other interventions.

Agreed.

>I inhaled enough not to hyperventilate.)

This appears to be a contradiction.  Could you please explain?

>Relaxing your body (if you can) in the
>face of incredible contractions is admirable, but how do stop yourself from pushing?   

You don't.  If your instinct is to push, it's probably time to do that.

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@ttidca.tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@ttidca.tti.com to you!)
{philabs,psivax,pyramid,quad1,rdlvax,retix,rutgers}!ttidca!reid
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
From: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Death of a 2 year old
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:22:22 GMT
Reply-To: pburch@bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch)
Originator: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu


In article <3775@wyse.wyse.com>, donna@wyse.wyse.com (Donna Diloreto x2231 dept302) writes:

|> Has anyone heard
|> of dying from a virus in the heart?  They were told that 97% of the people
|> with this condition die.  Anyone know what it could be caused by?

I don't know, but I have a friend, in her late twenties, who had to have a 
heart transplant after a flu virus attacked her heart, causing a condition 
called (I think) cardiomyopathy. She says it was just an ordinary flu virus, 
but somehow she had this unusual susceptibility. None of her relatives have 
had a similar problem, as far as I know. Without the transplant, she would 
have died, but she had a much longer illness than the 2-year-old in this 
sad story, which gave them a chance to do something.

Paula Burch
pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
From: drinkwat@adobe.com (Fred Drinkwater)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Pregnancy Pillow
Summary: Custom-made can be cheap
Date: 22 Jul 92 22:13:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View

When my wife was pregnant, we went to a local upholsterer
(they typically do a lot of work with foam rubber) and had
him do some slicing and gluing to make a couple of wedge
pillows.  Only $15 for two custom-made back & belly savers.

(Of course, you should go down to your local warehouse / job-shop
district for this, unless you *want* to spend cubic dollars
at Macy's Upholstery Service, or whatever...)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: cute/funny things they do (18 mo)
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 18:04:57 GMT


Sort of funny thing:

My son (18 months) has been having a slight fever and this morning
I found my husband cheerfully cleaning up my son's vomit on his (my
husband's) pillow.  I was shocked as usually my husband would be
extremely upset and yell at me to clean it up.  It turned out
that my son had said, in his cute little voice,

"I sorra" before turning around and barfing.
From: troy@cbnewsh.cb.att.com ( )
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Family Values?
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:54:20 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <Brtny8.Jv@news.cso.uiuc.edu> slkg9733@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steven L. Kellmeyer) writes:
>
>If you'll note, I referred to "biological ties". You were the one who
>immediately made the leap to family ties.  You see, we still think of
>biology as family.  But the very technology of artificial insemination
>by donor (AID) and in vitro fertilization (IVF) simultaneously do two
>things: they relegate the status of biological father to that of 
>unnamed drone and they inform women that the highest good is "natural"
>children.  
>
>Why are adopted children less "real" than "natural" children?  Are they
>somehow less human than "real" children?  We talk of children like we 
>talk of household objects.  "Children of their own" "can't afford a 
>child (couch, vacation, etc.)".  Saving up for IVF so that we can buy
>a child of our very own.  Or we can rent space in someone else's womb
>and have them manufacture the child for us.  Maybe using an egg we 
>bought in Florida, and that sperm that was on sale in Houston.  
>I exaggerate, but only by today's standards.  In ten or twenty years,
>this could be a real conversation, seriously discussed.  
>

Bullshit.

I can't let this pass.  As a person who experienced infertility and
who now has in your terms "a child of my own," "a natural child," "a
real child" I object to the suggestion that use of *any* infertility
technique from clomid through AID, IVF, GIFT, and ZIFT type treatments
suggests that "natural" children are somehow less desirable than children
that are adopted or members of blended families.

Adoption in the US today is incredibly expensive and difficult.  Adoption
of healthy infants is more expensive.  And save the lecture on how many
non-white, special needs, older children are available also.  Most states
restrict adoption of children within race, older children are usually
available only with incredible emotional and physical difficulties from
their birth families and many of us are not prepared financially or
emotionally to deal with extensive handicaps.  Private adoption of an
infant can run from $10,000 to $25,000, if you can find one.  In my state,
the waiting period for the state agency for a "healthy, white, child under
the age of eight" after the roughly six months to a year to get approval
as a prospective adoptive parent is ten years.  And the age difference
between the parent and child may be no more than 40 years.  Guess what?
We'd never be able to adopt a child under the age of seven through them if
these rules hold.

The extensive use of technology to achieve pregnancy for many of us is
a reaction to these facts, not simply a knee jerk "I want a child of my
*own*."  We pursued both adoption and technology.  Technology paid off
first.

Troy Adams
From: Lynn Gazis-Sax <lgsax@igc.org>
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Date: 25 Jul 92 22:51 PDT
Subject: Barbie dolls
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1427100026:000:229
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!lgsax    Jul 25 22:51:00 1992


We are trying to get toys for children in refugee camps
in Croatia, and evidently there is a particular interest
in Barbie dolls.  If anyone has Barbie dolls they no longer
have a use for, I can make use of them.

Lynn Gazis-Sax
From: kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: God's view of children (and adults)
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:58:49 GMT
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center

In article <92204.162604IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>Hillary Clinton is a man?  my, i never considered her to be
>so butch that one could make that mistake...
>
>could someone post similiar quotes from the Q'uran?  after all,
>if we're going to get the opinions of deities, perhaps we need
>a more random sample...

Fine, only it putatively the same deity.

Any Zoroastrians around?  Mithraists (of course, one cannot
expect Ailsa to approve of them)?

Buddhists?  Hindus?

Anyone familiar with the writings of Surak?


-- 
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
uupsi!khazad!kassover	          sharp weapons and dull judges."
kassover@aule-tek.com                   F. Collins
kassover@ra.crd.ge.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: c9037395@jupiter.newcastle.edu.au (Helen Lee)
Subject: Re: God's Family Values
Keywords: Historical perspective - positive for both sides!
Organization: Uni of Newcastle, Australia
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 06:01:54 GMT

This thread started out well enough; it *did* refer to kids/families/parenting.
But whatsay we stop all the posts that are just bickering about religion, eh?
Or at least move it to some other newsgroup.

It *is* somewhat disheartening to see parents/grown-ups behave like this.
Hands up everyone who *wasn't* dissillusioned at the age of 13 by  the
immaturatey & blatant childish behaviour of adults who 'say one thing & do
another' - people you were supposed to look up to.

...or maybe that was just me.

Cheers,
Helen, mom to noone but daughter to many.
--
     Helen Lee                 ~~   .-_|\      c9037395@cs.newcastle.edu.au
@The RONALD REAGAN HOSPITAL        /     \ ~~  c9037395@cc.newcastle.edu.au
     FOR THE MENTALLY ILL          \.--._/     c9037395@wombat.newcastle.edu.au
"We cure people the old fashioned way"  v  A frood & his money are soon partying
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mwalker@taimyr.Colorado.EDU (Marilyn Walker)
Subject: Nanny sharing input wanted
Organization: University of Colorado at Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:21:00 GMT

Hi misc.kidders.  I am due for my first (only?) child around Thanksgiving,
and have a close friend due several weeks later.  We are both scientists who
will return to work after a leave of several months.  We are both very far
down the list at a center that takes infants, and where her 2.5 yr old is now.
They will not move her up in priority despite the other child, so it looks
like she will have to find some other alternative, as will I.

This morning we were commiserating about this and came up with the idea of
sharing a nanny.  I was wondering if anyone had ever done anything like this?
It would make it financially feasible for both of us, as neither could afford
our own nanny, but like the idea of such personal care.  Two infants is a
lot, but that would be the person's sole responsbility.  We live about 10
minutes apart, and our idea was to set up both houses with two cribs and
alternate days.

Ideas, encouragement, discouragement, etc are welcome.  This is all new to
me and to my friend as well.  I should say that our families, values,
lifestyles, etc, are about as close as they could be, so we don't anticipate
major conflicts there.  We just wonder what pitfalls (or benefits) we aren't
considering.

I will be glad to post a summary of e-mail replies if there seems to be
interest in this.

Marilyn Walker
mwalker@taimyr.colorado.edu 
u
Xref: sparky misc.kids:20016 sci.med:14809
From: laura@TASVAX.NSWSES.NAVY.MIL
Newsgroups: misc.kids,sci.med
Subject: Re: Blood types - Mother&Father
Date: 29 Jul 92 22:45:32 GMT
Reply-To: laura@TASVAX.NSWSES.NAVY.MIL
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center, Port Hueneme Division

In article <27JUL199209362183@quark2.aero.org>, flaskerud@quark2.aero.org writes:
>I have to tell you that the Rogam shots I 
>got were very painful (burning sensation), but once you have the baby 
>everything you went through is worth it!!
>
>Cindy

I am A- and my husband is A+.  My doctor gave me RhoGam at 28 weeks (and will
give me RhoGam again within three days of the birth - in about three or four 
weeks!).

The shot I got was relatively painless.  I got the shot, and then I drove
1-1/2 hours to the airport (in L.A.) and took a four hour flight to Chicago.
No problem.  It may be, Cindy, that whoever gave you the shot wasn't very
good at it.

By the way, my mother was A-, and both of her husbands were RH+.  She had
six children in pre-RhoGam days (+ and -), and we were all fine.  A sister
of mine is also RH- and has had two wonderful daughters - no problem.

So, to the original poster, there are so many things to worry about right
now, so it's best *not* to sweat the little things.  Just make sure your
doctor knows the situation.  He/she will take the appropriate action.

Laura

laura@tasvax.nswses.navy.mil		|   Naval Surface Warfare Center
I speak only for myself.		|   Port Hueneme, CA 
From: ivy@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Ivy Griffiths)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:05:04 GMT
Subject: Re: [2yo] Recommendations for a tricycle?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA
Newsgroups: misc.kids

I like Fisher Price's plastic tricycle.  Also playschool, or little tykes,
can't remember which one, has come out recently with a new trike that can
eventually be converted to a small bike.  The main thing is the correct
seat to pedal setting.  I bought my son a "big wheel" when he was 1.75 yrs
old.  He was able to push it around for a long time, but didn't ride it
with the pedals until he was way past 3.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: caroline@topaz.Stanford.EDU (Caroline Lambert)
Subject: Re: how long to feel back normal after pregnancy?
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 20:33:11 GMT

In article <l7frgnINNonr@earth.cs.utexas.edu> adf@cs.utexas.edu (Angela Dappert-Farquhar) writes:
>Emotionally I was back to normal after Sebastian started sleeping
>through the night at 12 months. The hormonal chnges after the birth
>were certainly destabilizing but sleep deprivation was just the worst
>thing. 
>
I certainly agree about the sleep deprivation. My son started sleeping
through the night more-or-less consistently at age 2.5 or so; it took
me another 6 months to train myself to sleep through the night again,
and only then did I start feeling back to normal. (I'm fairly athletic
and compete off and on, so maybe I'm more particular about what 'normal'
is).

As for fat - even with breastfeeding and plenty of exercise, it took
me 11 months to lose the 22 lbs excess gained with the first baby, and
much more than a year for the second baby. And with the added stress
that children create, it seems much, much harder to keep from gaining
weight than it did before.

--
Caroline Lambert  				
Seismic Tomography Project		        caroline@topaz.Stanford.EDU
Department of Geophysics, Stanford University
From: abd0@gte.com (Alvah Davis)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Creating alt.twins
Summary: Discussion in alt.config
Keywords: twins supertwins multiples
Date: 31 Jul 92 19:23:45 GMT

The email I've gotten so far indicates a preference for an alt.twins
group over a mail list.  I'm planning to create it next week.  Just in
case there are any reasons not to (though I can't think of any), I've
posted a note in alt.config before doing so.  I hope those 90 of you
who voted for misc.twins (and any of the 45 opposed--or anyone else--
who is interested) will join the discussion in alt.twins next week.  If
you can't reach alt groups and you're desperately interested nonetheless,
send me email, and I'll try to arrange to forward posts to you.

--Alvah Davis, GTE Laboratories

(By the way, an unscientific glance at the list of yes/no votes on
misc.twins seemed to show that women voted in significantly higher proportion
for its creation than did men.  I can't come up with an explanation for that.)