HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: miw@cc.uq.oz.au (Mark I. Williams)
Subject: Re: German-Australian Dual Citizenship
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 02:55:47 GMT

michi@ptcburp.ptcbu.oz.au (Michael Henning) writes:

[absolutely correct stuff]

>   To get the German citizenship for him, I had to apply for his
>   citizenship on his behalf sometime before his 18th birthday (age
>   of legal maturity in Germany). Any later than that, and you've
>   missed the train.

Just to clarify this last bit, you have only missed the train for Dual
citizenship. Michi's son could apply for German citizenship *after* his
18th birthday, and he would get it almost automatically (German
citizenship laws work by blood, not birthplace). Unfortunately, he would
then have taken steps to get a citizenship other than an Australian one,
and would lose his Australian citizenship!

An additional note: What Michi (and I) have said only applies to the
default course of events. The responsible minister has very wide powers
under the act to vary this. For example, if you can show that not taking
up citizenship in your (non-Australian) country of residence would cause
you economic or other hardship, then the revocation of Australian
Citizenship on successfully applying for another can be waived. Ditto if
you can prove you weren't aware you'd lose citizenship (!!)

cheers,


--
Mark Williams         The University of Queensland       miw@cc.uq.edu.au
+61 7 36 54012   (w)  Prentice Centre
+61 7 36 54477  (fax) Qld 4072  Australia
Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit.  -- Seneca
From: paul@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Paul Boehm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Dreistuendige Strassenschlacht
Date: 6 Sep 92 23:50:21 GMT
Reply-To: paul@cs.tu-berlin.de
Organization: ZRZ/TU-Berlin

DREISTUENDIGE STRASSENSCHLACHT

Die Serie rassistisch motivierter Angriffe auf Asylbewerber
in Ostdeutschland haelt an. So griffen rechtsradikale Jugend-
liche Heime von Asylsuchenden in den brandenburgischen Staedten
Guben und Eisenhuettenstadt an. In Eisenhuettenstadt versuchten
150 Randalierer die mit 2000 Menschen belegte zentrale Aufnahme-
stelle fuer Asylbewerber zu stuermen. Drei Stunden dauerte die
Strassenschlacht mit der Polizei. Aufgehetzt wurden die Vermummten
noch von Schaulustigen. Auch in anderen Staedten Deutschlands gab
es Krawalle.

[Sat1 Videotexti 7.9.92]
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: jbronstad@UMASSD.EDU
Subject: Re: Violence update 11.09.92
Reply-To: jbronstad@UMASSD.EDU
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:34:44 GMT

debora --
are you bragging or apologizing about your arrest and probation sentence? In article <5RW6C8S@math.fu-berlin.de>, weberwu@inf.fu-berlin.de (Debora Weber-Wulff) writes:
>Quedlinburg was the scene of more violence last night. Youths
>threw the usual rocks/bottles/firebombs as now 400 looked on.
>But about 250 persons stood between the mob and the refugee home
>last night. Despite the provocation they remained non-violent
>and kept the youths from burning down the house.
>
>6 youths were sentenced in Rostock yesterday for the riots
>two weeks ago, an extremely short time-span for the German
>justice system. One youth was sentenced to 9 months in jail, 1
>was sentenced to a year on probation, and four were sentenced to
>detention equal to the days they have already spent in prison (so
>about 14 days).
>
>There was rock/bottle/firebomb throwing by 10 youths in
>Guestrow and by 5 in Greifswald (both M-V, I believe), no damages
>reported. In Reinbeck (S-H) an auto dealership next to a refugee
>home was torched.
>
>It goes on and on and on and is becoming quite "alltaeglich", just
>a normal part of life, it seems.
>-- 
>Debora Weber-Wulff                       dww@inf.fu-berlin.de
>Institut fuer Informatik                 +49 30 89691 124
>Nestorstr. 8-9                           (INCLUDE "standard.disclaimer")
>D-W-1000 Berlin 31                       (PRINTN (WITTY-MESSAGE TODAY))
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: dan@ORTTA (Daniel C. Cummings)
Subject: Re: Is it starting again?
Organization: U of Mn
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:30:52 GMT


>I am hoping for a good discusion. Greetings,
>                                               Frank.
>--
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>fg@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de               Frank Grieger, Bonn, Germany

Thank you for your well stated comments on these difficult issues!  You are 
correct in your observation of many people's reactions (or overreactions?!) 
to the recent problems in what was East Germany.  Here in the states, the 
newspapers seems to be hungry to print articles about riots and war 
overseas....maybe it makes people forget the problems here at home.  The 
effect of this is hard to deal with though....as you described in your 
letter, it is easy to form opinions based on the tragic events perpetrated 
by a minority of Germans.  My wife and I have been considering moving to 
Germany at some point to futher her operatic career and for me to seek 
further opportunity in computer networks and such.  I have to admit that 
these stories do tend to scare us into a belief the the right wing is 
growing in strength and that this is representative of many Germans.  Your 
comments help to counteract this assumption and to explain the motivations 
behind some of these actions.  The really tragic thing is that the actions 
are somewhat rational, even as they are unfair.  There are much larger 
economic and social issues that must be addressed before these symtoms go 
away.  This is actually quite similar to the most difficult social problems 
facing the U.S.  The Los Angeles riots were a symtom of much larger 
problems that have yet to be addressed in this country.
From: huumala@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi
Subject: Re: German-Australian Dual Citizenship
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 10:59:43 GMT

> 2) Be born in Australia, with a German parent. You get Australian
>    citizenship because Australia bestowes citizenship by birthright,
>    and you get German citizenship because Germany applies inheritance law.
>    This happened in case of my son (I am German, married to an Australian),
>    who was born in Australia. He holds dual citizenship.

In this case one parent is Australian.
What would happen if someone was born in Australia, but neither parent was
Australian?  Would that person receive Australian Citizenship.  For example:
I am American and my wife is Finnish.  We will be living and working in
Australia for a while.  Should we have a child there, I know that this child
would have both Finnish and American citizenships.  But would it have
Australian citizenship?

t. Dean
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: weberwu@inf.fu-berlin.de (Debora Weber-Wulff)
Subject: Violence report: 9.9.92
Keywords: German violence
Reply-To: dww@inf.fu-berlin.de
Organization: Free University of Berlin
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 12:57:04 GMT

I bought both a taz and a tagespiegel today - what a difference! tagespiegel
only has a little note on the bottom of page 1 about there being a spot of
violence yesterday. taz has some followups and a bit more information:

Quedlinburg (S-A): 50 people watched while 50 kids threw fire bombs, stones,
fireworks, and demolished 3 cars parked in front of a refugee hostel. Police
got control after 3 hours and arrested one person.

Boizenburg-Bahlen (M-V): Fire bomb thrown at a hostel did not ignite.
Anklam (M-V): ditto

Schullzendorf (Br): 2 cars in front of a refugee hostel burned.

Pankow (East Berlin): one car in front of refugee hostel burned.

Roesrath (N-W): windows broken, fire bomb thrown, but extinguished by
refugees.
Muelheim a.d.R. (N-W): Grenade thrown through window, no damage.

Marktredwitz (Bay): firebomb thrown, did not ignite.

In other news: an NPD-politician has been charged with inciting to riot;
Hamburg parents protest living containers for refugees on school property -
cite the danger to their children; School in Leer (Nied) invites black
refugees to talk about their native countries to the children [finally, a
positive note!]; defence lawyer for 5 youths charged with kicking a
foreigner to death in Nov. 90 pleads for all to go free, because it can't
be proven which kick proved fatal; Halle has issued warrants for the arrest
of 7 youths charged in the bombing of 2 Vietnamese homes Sunday night and has
offered replacement apartments to all who lived in the house.

A nice picture in the tagespiegel though: a Brandenburg mother grabbing
her masked son by the army jacket and marching him backwards away from
the scene of a mob.
-- 
Debora Weber-Wulff                       dww@inf.fu-berlin.de
Institut fuer Informatik                 +49 30 89691 124
Nestorstr. 8-9                           (INCLUDE "standard.disclaimer")
D-W-1000 Berlin 31                       (PRINTN (WITTY-MESSAGE TODAY))
From: carl.camurca%travel@wugate.wustl.edu (Carl Camurca) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Oktoberfest information r
Date: 13 Sep 92 01:57:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Travel Online, St. Louis, MO
Reply-To: carl.camurca%travel@wugate.wustl.edu (Carl Camurca) 


 * OLX 2.1 TD * Fer sell cheep:  IBM spel chekker.  Wurks grate.
                                                              
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: berne@nova3.stanford.edu (Jean-Francois Berne)
Subject: Re: Rostock, Berlin, usw.
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:14:13 GMT

In article <HOLLEY.92Sep9150031@fog.sono.uucp> holley@sono.uucp (Greg Holley) writes:
>In article <4021@elwood.prz.tu-berlin.de> jost@speedy.prz.tu-berlin.de (Jost Weinmiller) writes:
>
>> In article <ZGP6TOW@mailgzrz.tu-berlin.de> paul@cs.tu-berlin.de writes:
>> >mhs@fokus.gmd.de (M.Schmeil) writes:
>> >
>> >>nun - ich bin hier ja auch schon als rechte
>> >>hohlbirne bezeichnet worden (oder fast), nur
>> >>weil ich mich nicht unbedingt gewaehlt 
>> >> ...
>> >
>> >Schon mal was von Gross- und Kleinschreibung gehoert?
>> >
>> >P Boehm
>> 
>> schon mal davon gehoert, dass das ziemlich unwichtig ist, ob man 
>> gross oder Klein schreibt? korinthenkacker. willst wohl mal beamter
>> werden.
>
>Es ist doch wichtig, ob man gross oder klein schreibt, wenn man will,
>dass der Leser einen leicht versteht.  Genausso wichtig wie
>Rechtschreibung. Die meisten Leute lesen Text mit nur Gross- oder
>Kleinschreibung oder mit zahllosen Schreibfehlern langsamer und muessen
>sich mehr Muehe geben, als wenn sie "richtig" geschriebenen Text lesen.

and think about poor me trying to read a text without the upper case
in the right place!
Les lettres capitales sont un guide necessaire a ma lecture.
(Capital letters are necessary to my reading.)
-danke im voraus
JF
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,de.soc.politik
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Shopping Hours, etc.
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 00:07:23 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.175044.8388@infonode.ingr.com> james@brock.b17b.ingr.com (James Brock) writes:
>American cars are SheiBe.

Silly generalization.  I'm quite impressed with the Taurus line, myself.
Saturns, too, have received excellent reviews.  Good enough that they're
planning to export some to Japan.

> No argument or debate needed. 

"A man walks into a room, farts, and leaves."  -- Eliot Handelman

I suppose you're trying to say that you're not interested in *hearing*
any argument or debate; that you already know everything.

>What is more, most Americans cannot drive. 

So?  This is true of the citizens of most countries.  What are you saying? 

>American cars utilize cheap materials, 

Could you give us an example that obtains for all American cars?

>most of them don't have yellow turn signal lamps, 

(I take it this is a universally accepted sign of quality, right?)

>(Americans don't use their directional signals) 

I am an American.

I use my directional signals.  

Therefore your statement is false, or at least overly general.  

>the brakes are shoddy and under-powered, the bodies are
>made of metal and large amounts of plastic, 

Something wrong with metal?  Also, which car is made with "large
amounts of plastic" in its body?  Example?

>the Cadillac, which
>Americans tout as the best car Americans can buy if they want to 
>"buy American",

More bullshit.  Most Americans would say no such thing.  Where do you
get your so-called information?

> is a big boat that changes styles every year.

Care to tell us what's wrong with style changes?  

Also, tell us what cave you've been living in.  Cadillac makes several
small cars.

>I drive a 1971 Mercedes Benz 220D, a nice example of form follows
>function. 

How nice for you.  Has Mercedes changed the style at all since then?

>It has disc brakes on all four wheels, has no racing
>stripes, and is not a toy.

My, what a big man you must be.  I suppose all American cars are 
brakeless toys with racing stripes.  Is that what you're trying to
say?  

>America is one big fucked-up country with a lot of
>violence and stupidity and a dumb President who deserves 
>the public he has.

Actually, our biggest problem is overgeneralization.  

>Deutschland ueber Alles, and that is meant in a purely qualitative
>manner.

Purely.  Care to tell us how you reach such a conclusion, and why you
have to couch it in such obnoxious terms?

> I am an intense pacifist and I think we need less fighting.

But more insults, evidently.  Have you ever stopped to think that insults, 
especially attacks on whole countries full of people, are not conducive
to peace?  

>Skinheads are shitheads.

One more stupid generalization.  Have you met all the skinheads?  Some are
pacifists!  Some know better than to hurl nationalistic insults, too.

Roger
From: andrick@sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de (Ulf Andrick [Biologie])
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: umlaut
Date: 12 Sep 92 21:24:57 GMT
Organization: University of Kaiserslautern, Germany

The Palatinate isn't Bavarian any more! Thus, it appears a
little strange to qualify Kandel as located in Bavaria,
especially as it is geographically a little off from Bavaria.

--
Ulf R. Andrick                                andrick@rhrk.uni-kl.de
from Kaiserslautern (aka K'town), the metropole of the Palatinate :-)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,de.alt.flame
From: bsmajows@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Boris Majowski)
Subject: Re: Rostock, Berlin, usw.
Organization: CSD., University of Erlangen
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 18:20:06 GMT

net@cs.tu-berlin.de (Oliver Laumann) writes:

>jost@speedy.prz.tu-berlin.de (Jost Weinmiller) writes:
>> schon mal davon gehoert, dass das ziemlich unwichtig ist, ob man 
>> gross oder Klein schreibt?
dem kann ich mich nur anschliessen
immerhin ist das hier nicht die deutschstunde


>Wohl kaum.  Was ist der Unterschied zwischen

>   ``Er kaufte Eisen und stahl''
zum einen, lieber Herr Laumann (mir wuerde noch mehr einfallen, aber das hier ist nicht d.a.f)
zum einen ergibt sich das aus dem kontext,

und zum wichtigeren,
hat niemand ausser dir bisher das verlangen gehabt,
solch wichtige und hochgeistige saetze hier zu posten


>und

>   ``Er kaufte Eisen und Stahl''?
meinetwegen kann er sich das zeug auch auf den fuss fallen lassen.
wenns ihm spass macht ...

Boris!
---
int a[1817];main(z,p,q,r){/*BorisMajowskiErlangenGermanyEurope*/for(p=80;q+p-80
;p-=2*a[p])for(z=9;z--;)q=3&(r=getpid()+r*57)/7,q=q?q-1?q-2?1-p%79?-1:0:p%79-77
?1:0:p<1659?79:0:p>158?-79:0,q?!a[p+q*2]?a[p+=a[p+=q]=q]=q:0:0;/* ms0829@daphne
rrze.uni-erlangen.de */for(;q++-1817;)printf(q%79?"%c":"%c\n"," #"[!a[q-1]]);}
/*Hi!Ich bin ein .signature Virus.Mach mit und kopier mich in Dein .signature*/
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: lbs@tkmhp2.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de (Lech Borkowski)
Subject: Re: Aussiedler
Reply-To: lbs@tkm.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de
Organization: Case Western Reserve Univ. Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Distribution: world               
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 04:32:47 GMT

In article <ulrich02556920812111201@galki.toppoint.de> ulrich@galki.toppoint.de (Ulrich Gall) writes:
>carl.camurca%travel@wugate.wustl.edu (Carl Camurca) writes:
>>
>> AC>Laut mehreren Posts haben die territorialen Ansprueche der BRD mit der
>> AC>Wiedervereinigung eine Ende genommen.
>>
>> AC>Aber, was sind dann die Aussiedler ? Sind sie deutsch oder nicht ?
>
>Ich kenne einen, der in Polen deswegen beschimpft wurde (weil er deutsch ist).
>
>Juristisch haben sie Anspruch auf einen deutschen Pass und automatisch die
>deutsche Staatsbuergerschaft.

 There are also people who have signed die Volskliste during WW II.
 They were called Volksdeutsche. Many of them emigrated to Germany.
 Under what category are they classified? Are they classified
 as Aussiedler?

 Lech Borkowski

Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: jbronstad@UMASSD.EDU
Subject: akadem. auslandsamt tuebingen
Reply-To: jbronstad@UMASSD.EDU
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:23:54 GMT

weiss jemand die E-Mail Address des AAAs in Tuebingen.  Bitte, per E-Mail beantworten.
INTERNET: JBRONSTAD@UMASSD.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: craigb@resmel.bhp.com.au (Craig Blundell)
Subject: Brieffreund in Berlin .....
Organization: BHP Research - Melbourne Laboratories, AUSTRALIA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 11:41:55 GMT

I'm writing on behalf of a friend who is looking for a pen-friend in 
Deutschland (preferably Berlin). She is in her mid thirties, and is currently
learning German. Her main interests are music (her favorite band in the universe
is Einstuerzende Neubauten), film (one of her favorite directors is Wim Wenders)
and contempory arts in general.

Please note that she does not have access to a computer, so it will require 
writing letters !!!!!

She is looking for people of a similar age with similar interests. She basically
wants to talk to someone about what's happening in the contemporary music/film/
art world in Deutschland.

If anyone is interested, or knows of anyone who is interested, please send me
some e-mail and I'll pass it on to her.

Many thanks in advance.



--
Craig Blundell

Department of Earth Sciences
Monash University	
Clayton, Vic. 3168
AUSTRALIA
            
Phone   :  +61-3-566-7450 
FAX     :  +61-3-561-6709
AARnet  :  craigb@resmel.bhp.com.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: hong@mbfys.kun.nl (Hong Zhou)
Subject: Looking for a friend at Texas A&M Univ.
Organization: University of Nijmegen
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 13:34:17 GMT

Hi Everyone out Texas,

I am in search of the address/telephone number of a friend
whose name is Elsje Verhagen. She is a graduate student majoring
in Education at Texas A&M Univ. If you can help me to locate 
her, please drop me a message. Your help is deeply appreciated. 

Thanks in advance, 

Hong Zhou
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hong Zhou            |-----|    \       Dept. of Med. Physics & Biophysics
Muzenplaats 30       |__|__| |-----|    University of Nijmegen
6525 JA Nijmegen     | _|_ |  --|--     6525 EZ Nijmegen, The Netherlands
The Netherlands      |  _  |   / 	
                     | |_| |  / /       Tel.   +31-80-614230
Tel. +31-80-556412  /     \|   /__\     email: hong@mbfys.kun.nl
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: schieber@jetson.uh.edu (Schieber, Jay D.)
Subject: Re: Is it starting again?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 16:32:00 GMT

In article <BML6DHD@math.fu-berlin.de>, dww@inf.fu-berlin.de writes...
>On the eve of "Anti-War Day" in Germany unknown persons detonated
>a pipe bomb at a Berlin monument in Tiergarten that commemorates
>the many Jews is the area that were deported and killed in the
>concentration camps. There have often been minor attacks on the
>monument, this one has caused quite some damage to the monument,
>but luckily no one was hurt (it is on a bridge, and apparantly a
>car was in the vicinity at the time of the detonation).
> 
>According to the Tagespiegel there is of course no connection to
>the current and continued right-wing rampages in the eastern
>states (On the weekend the police kept 20.000 leftists waiting for
>hours to be searched for weapons. Last night they had trouble 
>in Cottbus keeping 100 kids from demolishing an asylum home.).
>The new head of the National Jewish Association, however,
>does see a connection between the detonation and the persecution
>of foreigners in Germany, and has called for a change in the
>demonstration route today for the peace demonstration, asking
>them to finish with a rally at the monument. 
> 
>The police doesn't have the foggiest notion, etc. who could
>possibly have done such a thing. Will keep you informed!
>-- 

Many thanks for this information.  I also find it very disturbing
that the police seem to have no trouble controlling left-leaning
demonstrations (since anti-racism, peace promotion, etc are left),
but cannot control far smaller right wing crowds.  Also, I find it
amazing that time and again there are more policemen injured than
people arrested for right wing demonstrations, yet I cannot 
recall a single instance of such a ratio for left demonstrations.

Is my observation accurate? Unfortunately, I cannot get the Taz 
in the states.



>Debora Weber-Wulff                       dww@inf.fu-berlin.de
>Institut fuer Informatik                 +49 30 89691 124
>Nestorstr. 8-9                           (INCLUDE "standard.disclaimer")
>D-W-1000 Berlin 31                       (PRINTN (WITTY-MESSAGE TODAY))


Jay Schieber
University of Houston

Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: roesch@aix01.rz.fht-mannheim.de (Friedrich Roesch)
Subject: Germany's Power Play in Europe
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 11:29:00 GMT
Organization: Fachhochschule fuer Technik Mannheim
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

>First, West Germany's annexation of the German Democratic
>Republic in 1990 ......

  This is not true. There was no annexation at all.

--
       Friedrich Roesch
From: carl.camurca%travel@wugate.wustl.edu (Carl Camurca) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Is it starting again?
Date: 11 Sep 92 11:49:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Travel Online, St. Louis, MO
Reply-To: carl.camurca%travel@wugate.wustl.edu (Carl Camurca) 

DCC>Actually, we're both very WASP, german and scandanavian.  But the thought o
DCC>living in an area of extreme intolerance, even if we are in the "safe" race
DCC>is scary.  I'm sure you've heard the old adages, the basic point is that if
DCC>one race or group of races is singled out for persecution, we are all in
DCC>danger.

I had to quote it, it's so true.

[stuff deleted to keep bandwidth]

DCC>care a bit about minority or poor children.  The violence you see on the
DCC>street is a very rational choice for many of these people....consider this,
DCC>this segment of society is basically forgotten about, has no political
DCC>voice, and no economic power.  After the riots, suddenly they had national
DCC>news media attention, new construction, political representation, new
DCC>economic incentives for small business.  I'm not saying that this is moral,
DCC>or right, or even all that effective, but the point is that SOMETHING
DCC>happened and something changed.  Therefore, their collective action,
DCC>although abhorent, resulted in the only attention these problems have seen
DCC>for decades.  This is amazing!!!  The even more amazing fact, is that our
DCC>politicians seem to STILL be looking towards increased law enforcement,
DCC>jails, etc. to treat the problems and keep it from happening again!

Aaaaaaahhh, that does sound so familiar!
Everybody out there, apply it to Germany of our days!

greetinx, Carl.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Think the system is working? Ask someone who isn't
From: stephen@maxwell.physics.purdue.edu (Stephen W. Hill)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Rain Relief Fund
Date: 9 Sep 92 20:36:52 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Physics Department


     I have a question.  Why is it that Oktoberfest is celebrated in 
September some places?

Newsgroups: soc.culture.german