From: jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali)
Subject: Re: Private Education in Pakistan
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 03:20:31 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Nova Scotia, Halifax, N.S.

In article <1he596INNelr@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> khan@ces.cwru.edu (Mansoor Khan) writes:
>
>>Dear Mansoor Dude,
>
>>Interestingly enough, as much as I have learnt recently from SCP on events
>>surrounding creation of Pakistan, India today and Bangladesh, it seems we
>>enjoy contemplating the scenarios that were the result of a different time
>>and place.
>
>>The world then was a very different place. I find your last aritcle succint and
>>to the point, in response to the article you were responding to. It also
>>provided the needed insight into the bias coming from Indians and Bengalis,
>>that continue to plague SCP needlessly and maliciously with no intent other
>>then to incite flames and controversy.
>
>>I would like to draw you towards the issue of education and present conditions
>>prevailing in Pakistan. If you know what the system is based upon, and maybe
>>if you have knowledge of the private school system, could you share that with
>>us..?  Specifically I mean the freedom of private schools to design their own
>>syllabus ?
>
>>Best Regards,
>>Shams Hasan
>
>	Vaa-laikum-best-regards and Christmas Mubarak,
>
>	Pakistan is a country where literacy rate is going down.
>	When talking of Bangladesh, a friend of mine once said that
>	if Bangladesh is not sliding backwards, it must be making progress.
>	Ever heard, ek qadam aagay, toe doe qadam peech'hay. i.e. One step
>	forward, two steps backward. Pakistan is only two steps backward
>	all the time. Two years ago we had Mr. 10%, now recently someone
>	mentioned there is a Mr. 90%.
>	Education system in Pakistan is such that middle class is taught
>	in its Islamiat class in grade nine, that "Alraashi Val-murtashi
>	Kullaa-humaa fin-nar" i.e. People who take and give bribes
>	will both get the hell fire.  But, do you think people like
>	Zardari go thru same classes. No, he is a St. Patricks Drop-out.
>	Oh, please dont tell me about his educational achievements in UK :-)
>	In other words, people who finally get the control of Govt. etc
>	in Pakistan are never told in their education that what is wrong
>	with taking rishvats( Commissions) :-)
>	Pakistan needs mass education. How we are gonna get money
>	to do this. Take money from people like Navaz Sharif( who took
>	out billions of loans from Govt. Banks during Zia's time and never
>	returned a paisaa) and Zardari( who collected 10%) and 
			       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A large part of your postings is about Asif Zardari. You have referred to him as
a corrupt person a lot of times. I really wonder what makes you so confident
about these claims. So far, each of the cases decided upon has shown him
innocent. Is it possible that there are other reasons for your hatred for this
person who has been in jail for past two years and has not been proven guilty
on even one of the charges... to keep whom in jail, the president has limited
the powers of high court judges for the first time after the end of Zia's
Martial Law?

>	Gauhar Ayub( future President of Pakistan who was the biggest
>	rishvat khore of 60's) and open schools in Jehlum, Tharparkar,
>	and haripur. There is enough money in Pakistan, but it is 
>	stolen by Shiyateens. 
>	You will notice that those who make money by working hard and
>	these people usually come from good family backgrounds, will
>	always invest back in the community. Hakeem Saeed should be
>	congratulated on his efforts to open a University called
>	Hamdard University outside Karachi. In my 21 days in Karachi 
>	after 9 years, I was able to visit Hamdard University last
>	year. It is a huge project, and the resident project engineer
>
>	told me that it will be completed by 96/97. To my amazement
>	I saw books like Kuo's control Engineering, and Morris Mano's
>	Computer Logic Design. I saw boxes and boxes of books dnated by

Looks like you went to Karachi after too long a time. We used Mano's book
at ICS Karachi in 1988 :) 

>	people like you and me and us to HU's library. Hamdard Foundation
>	has allocated 200 crores of Rupees for the project. When I asked
>	the Chief Financial Officer of Hamdard Foundation about donation
>	from other resources, he said that there is almost none from
>	Pakistani industrialists. So there is some hope. But we need 
>	more people like Hakeem Saeed. Aga Khan University is another

I guess Hakeem Saeed owes a lot to Pakistan... Let me give you a hint...
If I'm not wrong, Hamdard is the biggest importer of cortisone in Pakistan. 
No wonder Rooh Afza makes one feel great :) :)

There aren't many philanthropists in Pakistan. These are all ways of bribing
the government.... and appeasing the people. Same applies to Agha Hasan Abdi's
CS schools.

>	such example. Even BCCI donated money for two computer science
>	colleges( one each in lahore and karachi). Agha Hasan Abdi should
>	also be thanked by Pakistan for providing seed money for the
>	new engineering school which is going to start under the leadership
>	of Dr. A. Qadir Khan. I did not like it to be named after
>	Ghulam Ishaq though. For what. What is Ghulam Ishaq's contribution
>	to any thing in Pakistan. But, any way...

Gimme a break :) Had he not been there, who would have sacked Bhutto.. 

>	In 1992 I also saw a new school in Gulshan-e-Iqbal which was
>	built by the Chinyoti Community of Karachi.
>	So people are doing things, but much more has to be done.
>	There is no reason why there should not be upto 10 Universities in
>	Karachi and another 10 in Lahore. These are big cities.

Karachi is a much larger city than Lahore, if I'm not wrong. How come you're
biased against Karachi? 

>	How about more colleges for Gwadar and Pasni. Why Bugti
>	does not donate the money he has looted for the establishment
>	of just one school in Dera Bugti. How come Zardari does not
>	spend money in Lyari on education or in Sindh's rural areas.
>	No do not expect Mr. 10% to do any such thing. All this money is
>	shipped out of Pakistan. 

Now now.... what's the point in that rhetoric...

>	Some people, esp. Saad Shafqat has suggested that main idea
>	in Pakistan should be to make money. But unfortunatley money
>	is being made by people like Navaz and Zardari. These guys will
>	not invest a penny in education or anything. These people even
>	rob country of its tax money. Do we expect these theives and
>	rishvat khores to spend money in education in Pakistan. No way.

Same again... what's your point? If these people are corrupt, what's
the point in blaming them for not spending money on education. You sure
do have a short concentration span :)

>		Private professional schools, colleges, Universities
>	should be opened in Pakistan. Baqai Medical College in Karachi
>	is a good example. People should come forward and open schools
>	in Pakistan for profit. 

Your posting is full of non sequiturs. Why don't you just make one standard
posting saying:

I don't like Benazir Bhutto (bitch)
I don't like Asif Zardari (Mr. 10%)
I don't like Nawaz Sharif
I hate Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto
I don't like Gauhar Ayub
I don't like ....
....
....
I like Nadeem Jamali :)

and then you can post the same thing 10 times a day. It'll be so easy for me
to reply. I'll make a standard reply saying:

Who cares!! :)

>	
>	More later
>
>Mansoor Khan
>Cleveland.
>

regards

Nadeem

-- 
Nadeem Jamali                                     jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca
						 
School of Computer Science			  
Technical University of Nova Scotia		  (902)420-7527  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan