From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: troi
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:52:59 GMT
Organization: Utopia Planitia Starfleet Yards, Mars
 >>Marina started out with a few extra pounds, but she has lost a LOT of 
 >>weight since then.  She is now probably at about her idea weight. 
 >>I don't know what "pounds" you could be seeing...
 >I never said speci


 > but if your looking for some area of growth then it's certainly
 >not in acting ability (IMHO) 

I (naturally) disagree.  Her character has grown tremendously.  In the early 
shows most of the writers barely knew what to do with her, but eventually
they started using her more.  The biggest thing they did was to fully show
her in the "Counselor" position.  That is of course supposed to be her 
primary job.  They have continued to give her more things to do as time
went along.

 >so I figured her figure was the next logical area. 
Sorry, no logic whatsoever.

 >>That line is ore tired and cliche than ANYTHING Troi has *ever* said.  
 >Closed Mind! If you think Troi serves any essential role on TNG
 >then your mind but be so open that on windy days you get a nice hum 
 >between yours ears! <Joke> 
Thanks.  She is the ship's counselor and the Captain closest advisor,
if that is not important, then what the hell is??

 >The character Troi never seems to provide any especially useful information 
You're repeating yourself...  Also, despite any nit-picking, I *loved* her
line in "Chain of Command".  That was clearly some very "useful" information
to Riker.  There are plenty of other situations like that.

 >and in fact in the few situations where she could serve to provide 
 >something useful, she's always got that handy Troi line of "I can't 
 >seem to read anything Captain". 
"always"?  I doubt she has said that more than a couple of times.

 >but one on the bridge, why? 
Because that is where the CAPTAIN is.  Besides, who gives a rats ass if 
she is on the bridge??  Did you also complain every time Bones was there?

 >And one that can't do anything but trumpet off what should be 
 >obvious to even Geordi without a visor? 
If that is what you think, then blame the writers.

 >If the TNG writers want a counciler, give her the lines like "He seems 
 >reasonable captain, but be aware he may be bargaining in poor faith, 
 >I'd approach him with some caution. It may come to blows if he doesn't 
 >get his way" (excuse my poor writing style) instead of the all too 
 >expected "He's hiding something captain" 

Phew!  The show has to FIT into 45 minutes you know! (including credits :)

 >> Star Trek is about *characters* and the "human condition".
 >      Agreed, but the I always understood it to be the human condition
 >as it is under the backdrop of space exploration. 
More times than not, it is just a "backdrop"....

 >These silly emotional issue episodes certainly have nothing to do 
 >with that space exploration backdrop 

Nope, they have to do with the "human condition", and that ain't 
gonna change.  Watch DSN, it has a lot more straight "action".

 >and would seem more at home in the last 5 minutes of a sit-com
 >turned sappy ending or on 30 something. 
I wouldn't know, I never watch shows like that.

 >I think I speak for *most* TNG watchers when I say that I usually watch 
 >with less then any real intrest at these emotional issues show. TNG writers,
 >hear my cry!  "Bring back the salt sucker creature from TOS!" <joke!!!!!!!> 

I really doubt *most* people would want a "monster of the week" or whatever
over some sort of interesting "issue".  Besides, not that many shows are
plain "issues".  They usually come somewhere in between.

 >> I seem to see almost more "body" references from the rabid Troi-haters than 
 >> from the people who LIKE her.  This obsession with a non-existant "weight" 
 >> problem is a very good example.

 >I still stand by my claim, while I find Troi/Sirtis a real porker
 >and down right butt ugly, it's the Troi character that I dislike. 

With *ridiculous* comments comments like "butt ugly" and "real porker" I 
find that TOTALLY impossible to believe.  I also can't believe we are seeing
the same person!  I think Troi/Marina looks gret.  Marina especially, since
i've seen her in person and in interviews, and she always looks excellent.

 >I may use my dislike of her looks to insult her, 
No kidding, but it seems to say more about you.

 >but it's my dislike of her character that makes me want her off the show.
After those comments, I doubt you will be able to convince me of that.

 >As a matter of fact, it'd be nice in TNG or DS9 had a male or female 
 >main character who was none too gorgeous, IE overwieght, etc. 
Fine with me... bring 'em on.  But leave Troi just where she is.

 >Just make sure you give them some lines, because "a good body does 
 >not a good character make". 
Depends.  It certainly doesn't hurt though, and it is always good for ratings.
For Troi at least, I happen to like *both* the looks and the character.

 >Feel free to call me shallow for using her looks against her. 
I'm not sure what to call you!  :->

 >But let me add that at this point I do like Dax primarly for her good looks.
Then logically it seems that if you liked Troi's looks you would like the
character as well...

 >If it were not for her good looks, I'd still 'like' her but I wouldn't 
 >be such a steadfast Dax supporter. 
I see no reason NOT to like Dax.

 >>  >liked Battlestar Galatica so who knows if I'll like it.
 >> In that case i'd say you should really *LOVE* Space Rangers!
 >     Goody! Good acting is great, good FX help too, but I must admit
 >  I can watch pure drivel if it's action packed! :-) 

Well, "pure drivel--action packed" does describe B.G. pretty well at least.
S.R. has fairly plain FX, pretty bad writing, and i'm not sure what to call
the acting.  Some is pretty corny, some is fair...

 >BTW what are you feelings on Dr. Who?
I have about 100 episodes on tape... including a large number of 
other British SF programs.

 >>  > You sound like a *shutter* Wesley lover to me! 
 >> Ugh, excuse me while I hurl!!  
 >Well we seem to agree to disagree on Troi, and agree to dislike Wesley.
Guess so.

 >At least we have some things in common. 
Yea, but calling Marina "butt ugly" seems totally INSANE to me!  :->

 >I'll retract my Wesley line, as falsly accusing someone of Wesleyism 
 >is a pretty serious crime in my book. :-) 
Thanks, and I agree with you 100% about the seriousness of that offense. :-)