HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: M18611@MBVM.Mitre.Org (Kathy Wilk)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: WANG stock
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:41:27 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA 01730


  Wang Labs is in a nosedive - today, perhaps, the company will declare
bankruptcy.
  The stock is a penny stock now (around 70 cents a share, I think).  What
would make it go to zero - bankruptcy?  Does stock ever go back up after zero?
  Sorry if these questions sound dumb - Wang was once a great company.  It
could still have the potential to recover.  A gamble, sure, but is there a
profit to made buying the stock now?
 
 
                        K. Wilk
                        M18611@MBVM.MITRE.ORG
 
            <--********************************-->
 'Thrusting my nose firmly between his teeth, I threw him to the ground
  on top of me.' - Mark Twain
            <--********************************-->
From: jm0i@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOSEPH ALOYSIUS MCVEIGH)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Phar-Mor
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:47:51 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Aug20.153413.8966@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>,
aa536@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alayne M. Whaley) writes:
>
>Anyone know if this Youngstown-based chain is public?

It's closely held. Maybe that's how they got away with it.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Aloysius McVeigh | "...a contradictory, agonized, elusive, defiant,
jm0i@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu  |  childishly egotistical, sometimes plain silly,
       --------         |  sometimes repellent and sometimes dazzling and
      "N.I.N.A."        |               admirable figure...."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: McAldon International Inc. <mcaldon@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Date: 15 Aug 92 13:52 PDT
Subject: Re: Question on Selling Short
Nf-ID: #R:1992Aug10.222815.4571@gibdo.engr:-151892868:cdp:1426500243:000:1485
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!mcaldon    Aug 15 13:52:00 1992


|It's my understanding that the stock price and book value of companies forced
|into liquidation by their creditors goes to zero.  The book value of the stock
(the equity in the company) goes to zero because the company has a negative net
|worth - why else would the creditors force a liquidation.  At this point the
|stock price goes to zero, since the book value of the stock is zero and there
|is no possibility of future appreciation - the company will cease to exist.
|
|In this situation, according to an old finance prof, the liquidation causes a
|closing of your position without you having to purchase any stock.  You keep
|the money received when you sold short minus the finance charges your broker
xtorted for the loan and walk away well off.  Kind of like hitting the lottery.
|  Hitesh J. Jasani             |  "Beware of the man who works hard to      |

I'm not so sure about this.  What would happen if somebody took over this
"shell,' soaked up all the stock, then put the squeeze on the unsuspecting
shorts.  I know of a company that went broke when Castro expropriated all
its holdings, which were concentrated in Cuba; today that company is listed
under another name on the Amex.  Ask your "old finance professor." DMcKenzie

                         |        Vote for the environment          |
|    mcaldon@igc.org     |            Vote for AL GORE              |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
              
            

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: acheng@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Albert Cheng)
Subject: Re: Nikki (up or down?)
Originator: acheng@shalom.ncsa.uiuc.edu
Organization: Nat'l Ctr for Supercomp App (NCSA) @ University of Illinois
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:31:08 GMT


In article <1901@coyote.UUCP>, shekita@yeti.almaden.ibm.com (E. Shekita) writes:
>    
>Beware of Japan bashing, a time-honored tradition of some western journalists.
>Granted, Japan has tremendous problems in real estate, and corruption is rife,
>but I'd still argue that their long-term economic problems are no worse than
>those faced by the US. It's interesting to compare the vital economic
>statistics of the two for the latest reporting period (from the 8/3 NY Times):

Japan and U.S. are very different.  U.S. has plenty of resources (oil,
mineral, crops, space, people, ...) but Japan is very much a barren
island.  Japan is about the size of California but with 100+ million
people.  That is quite a population to feed.  The Japan's strength
currently is manufacturing and trading which is rather fragile.  The
other SE Asia countries will catch up with Japan's technology and
squeeze japan's profit margins.

Japan relies on others to prosper but U.S. is quite self-sufficient.  I
am not advocating close-door policy but when people get real emotional,
it seems the way to go.  U.S. will suffer a lot but Japan can be
devastated.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: billg@dolphin.csd.sgi.com (Bill Gargiulo)
Subject: need current Barron's Mutual fund ratings.
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:40:06 GMT

 Does anyone have the most recent Barron's rating for Mutual funds ???
(or at least the date when it was printed .)

thanks in advance.



Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: rab@cs.cmu.edu (Robert Brennan)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Phar-Mor
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:14:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BtAwBx.86z.2
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <92233.132606AXD2@psuvm.psu.edu> AXD2@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
> Phar-Mor is a closely held corp. The public is not involved.
>                                                             Chuck

In any event the news here in Pittsburgh PA, which has a number of  
Phar-Mor stores, is that the company filed for bankruptcy protection the  
beginning of this week.

Bob Brennan
Carnegie Mellon University
From: shekita@yeti.almaden.ibm.com (E. Shekita)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: is it time to invest in Japan?
Date: 21 Aug 92 16:09:09 GMT

>Long term, I don't think Japan is as much of an economic powerhouse as
>the media would have you think. If the world commodities market ever
>recovers, they'll really be in for it, given their utter lack of natural
>resources. Canada, Australlia, the U.S., Saudi Arabia, and (eventually)
>Russia aren't going to put up with giving away their resources with no
>value added forever.

By this reasoning, Russia and Africa should be world economic 
powers. Instead, they're towards the bottom of the pile.
I would argue that a country's most important resource is its 
people --- their work ethic, their educational values, their 
willingness to sacrifice for the future, their citizenship,
the government and business communities they establish. 

Japan is all too aware of its lack of natural resources. If you look
at where investment is going, you'll see that Japan has huge investments 
all over east Asia --- much larger than the US. I believe that Japan's 
ultimate goal is to position itself as a high-tech design center, with 
its manufacturing bases located off-shore in countries where resources 
and low-tech manpower is cheaper. The US is also moving to this model,
although not as aggressively (e.g., the recent trade pact with Mexico). 

Gene
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: A bad experience with K. Aufhauser & Co.
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 00:16:41 CDT
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

un026217@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes:
> I am telling my story to get some opinions. I opened my
> first account with a local semi-discount broker. After
> obtaining a list of discount brokers from the net, I
> selected the cheapest one, K. Aufhauser & Co., to open
> my account. There is a letter in their application package
> saying something like: If you transfer your account from
> a different broker, we will waive the $20 new account fee.
> I don't have the letter anymore. I don't think that they
> specified how much money you have to have in your account
> transfered.

Never throw away anything from your broker, including promotional
literature (with the exception of duplicate items).

> When I noticed that I was charged with the new account fee,
> I called them back and they confirmed that a amount is not
> indicated in the letter. I understand that you have to open
> a account for more than $50,000 to have the new account fee
> waived. My impression is that for account transfer that is
> not the case. When I ask them to send me a copy of the letter
> so that I can make sure that I didn't misunderstood them, the
> guy on the phone said: "Mr. Wang, I am going to close your
> account here now". "Why?" I asked. "Because I don't like you."
> 
> What did I do wrong to lose my account? Comments welcome.

You caught someone misbehaving, it appears. You should have immediately
called back and ask for the office manager, and demanded a real
explanation. If you still had the letter, you could write the SEC,
but they probably won't do anything serious about a $20 charge--unless
KA is doing this to lots of people, in which case they probably will.

I don't think you can force them to let you have an account there,
but you certainly should complain to the manager, and at least ask
for a refund of this charge.

Gary Heston, at home....
gary@cdthq.uucp
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: ortega@cactus.org (Paul Ortega)
Subject: Re: How is Pasadena Balanced Return Fund?
Keywords: Mutual Fund
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 19:23:04 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.140723.21995@osf.org> kev@osf.org (Kevin Till) writes:
>Hi,
>
>	According to yesterday's Wall Street Journal ad, Pasadena Balanced 
>Return Fund is waiving its 5% inital load until Sept 30. Morningstar rated it as 
>5 although I can't find it from the top fund section in the July issue of Money 
>Magazine.
>	
>	Any comments about the fund will be appreciated!
>	

According to the rating in Barron's quarterly ratings, it returned:
For an initial $10,000 investment
$10,059.30 - 3/31/92-6/30/92
$11,581.60 - 6/31/91-6/30/92
$23,242.80 - 6/30/87-6/30/92


-- 
Paul Ortega			|  "Does this mean that we have
2015 Cedar Bend Dr., #1105      |   to fight now?" - Selina Kyle
Austin, TX 78758		|_______________________________ 
(512) 832-9197			ortega@cactus.org
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: scott@phylo.life.uiuc.edu (Scott Howard)
Subject: Re: is it time to invest in Japan?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:11:14 GMT

One should never get into markets out of greed or fear...

A true contrarian would ignore the sales hype of the brokerage
houses and hold his money away from Japan. 'Hi-Tech' is not a
pancea for all that ails Japan. Sooner or later they will need
to pay for all their retirees, cope with rising commodity prices,
and come to grips with their ineffcient distribution systems.
Long term, my bets are all on China and India.

Bulls make money, Bears make money, but pigs get slaughtered.
From: streeter@dopey.sanders.lockheed.com (Ken Streeter)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Wall Street Week recommendations
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:14:57 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lockheed Sanders, Inc.
In-reply-to: federkin@rtsg.mot.com's message of 18 Aug 92 14:26:05 GMT


In article <federkin.714147965@guppie19> federkin@rtsg.mot.com (John Federkins) writes:
>tony2@prefect.uucp (21131-gozdz) writes:
>>We measured the price performance of the 200 recommendations over several 
>>periods, adjusting for the general market trend over the same period. [...]
>>					Excess performance of
>>					recommended stocks
>>second week before show		        +0.4%
>>week before show				+0.8%
>>day after show					+2.1%
>>remaining 4 days of week after show		-0.3%
>>second week after show				+0.4%
>>next six weeks after show			-3.2%

>   There are always ways to make money if you have a "predictable"
>   stock performance.  In the example above, simply short sell the
>   stock after the 2nd week and buy it back after six more weeks.
>   Depending on your volume and commissions, you'll net about 3% in
>   six weeks (about 26% annual) -- pretty good.  And if you want a higher
>   return, buy puts after the 2nd week.


 This idea all sounds great, and would be, except it is important to
remember that the percentages above are not the 'raw' percentages that
the stocks moved, but the percentages after being "adjusted for the
general market trend over the same period..."  This means that even
though the stocks surge a relative 2.1% the day after the show, if the
market trend that day was slightly down (say by 2%), that 2.1%
average relative surge could have really been a 0.1% rise.  Then
again, if the whole market was up, that 2.1% surge could have been a
4% rise!  If one makes the assumption that the general market trend
over this 6-week period is for the market to remain stable, yes this
idea will make money.  However, if the general market trend is
up,up,up, it's really hard to make money on short sells, even if that
stock is dropping relative to everything else in the market...


--
Kenneth B. Streeter        | ARPA: streeter@rocket.sanders.com
Lockheed Sanders           | UUCP: ...!uunet!rocket.sanders.com!streeter
MER24-1583C                |
P.O. Box 868               | (603) 885-9604
Nashua, NH 03061-0868      |

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: irving@Happy-Man.com (Irving_Wolfe)
Subject: Re: A bad experience with K. Aufhauser & Co.
Bcc: irving
Reply-To: Irving_Wolfe@Happy-Man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:39:36 GMT

In <1992Aug11.134346.3435@wvnvms.wvnet.edu> un026217@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes:

>When I ask them to send me a copy of the letter
>so that I can make sure that I didn't misunderstood them, the
>guy on the phone said: "Mr. Wang, I am going to close your
>account here now". "Why?" I asked. "Because I don't like you."

Mr. Wang is very lucky to have a warning in advance not to trust
these people or do business with them.

Thank you, Bo Wang, for posting this to the net.

-- 
 Irving_Wolfe@Happy-Man.com      Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x101
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399   fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.   NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20.  Send POSTAL addrs: Solid-Value@Happy-Man.com
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: infomation about stocks or bonds issued by China needed
Date: 14 Aug 92 23:55:45 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <3316@ra.nrl.navy.mil> jerry@rat (Jerry Nash) writes:
>There are three closed end funds which just came out: the China Fund, the  
>Greater China Fund, and one more whose name I can't think of. 

Jardine-China Fund (JFC)



Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: bd670@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Russell I. Dyreng)
Subject: Re: Twentieth Century investment 
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 16:31:39 GMT


>I am looking to possibly invest in a mutual/s fund/s with 
>Twentieth Century.
>
>Has anyone out ther any input on the company and ther investment 
>programs?
>
>
>Thanks             

I have been investing with 20th Century for a little over a year
now.  I have to date had only good experiences in dealing with
this company.  Their people who answer the telephones are polite
and extremely knowledgable.  They have a variety of funds which 
in the last year have performed extremely well during the market's
up periods.

I have no ill to say about them at this point.

Russ
bd670@cleveland.freenet.edu
From: pb00+@andrew.cmu.edu (Peter B. Behrens)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Broker Solicitation
Date: 20 Aug 92 12:02:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.UeYzdgK00WB98Mjekj
Organization: Masters student, Architecture, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I received a solicition earlier this week from one of the major national
brokerage firms.  In their letter of introduction they said: "[our
company] provides some of the most extensive research and customer
support available.  Enclosed you will find research which I hope you
will find helpful."  I, not unreasonably, expected a report from their
own research department to be enclosed.  What I found was three pages
photocopied from Value Line, an independent research firm that is not
affiliated with the brokerage firm that was distributing them.  Two of
the pages had Value Line's name blacked out, the third did not, but even
if the name had been obscured on all of them they were easily recognized
because of the well known format of their reports.  Has anyone else run
in to sales pitch like this?

Two things bug me - a) the company was promoting the value of its own
research but then enclosed information that can be purchased from Value
Line directly (a 3 month trial subscription is something like $55 and
you get reports on hundreds of companies); b) they are distributing what
I know to be copywritten information, undoubtably without permission.

I would like to alert Value Line to this company's practices.  Can
anyone send me their address? 

- Peter Behrens     pb00@andrew.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: cs6@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Eric Sit 3611)
Subject: Re: WANG stock
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not neccessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 04:05:49 GMT

In article <16847A467.M18611@MBVM.Mitre.Org> M18611@MBVM.Mitre.Org (Kathy Wilk) writes:
>
>  Wang Labs is in a nosedive - today, perhaps, the company will declare
>bankruptcy.
>  The stock is a penny stock now (around 70 cents a share, I think).  What
>would make it go to zero - bankruptcy?  Does stock ever go back up after zero?
>  Sorry if these questions sound dumb - Wang was once a great company.  It
>could still have the potential to recover.  A gamble, sure, but is there a
>profit to made buying the stock now?
> 
> 
>                        K. Wilk
>                        M18611@MBVM.MITRE.ORG
> 
>            <--********************************-->
> 'Thrusting my nose firmly between his teeth, I threw him to the ground
>  on top of me.' - Mark Twain
>            <--********************************-->


Wang indeed declared bankruptcy today.  Stock price doesn't go to zero just 
because it declares bankruptcy.  If the company is liquidated, then the stock 
price would go to zero.  After the company is liquidated, it no longer exists 
as a business entity.

When a company files for bankruptcy, it can take a long time (years) for it
to go back to sound finanical health (i.e. assuming the company can avoid
liquidation).  I once saw statistics on bankrupt companies.  If I recall
correctly, those that eventually recovered spent an average of 18 months 
under bankruptcy protection.

You have pointed out that it is a gamble to buy Wang stocks now.  I am 
suggesting that the risk is enormous: at best, you are looking at a long
wait for the share to appreciate significantly.  On the other hand, it is 
quite likely that Wang cannot successfully restructure itself and ends up 
being liquidated.  If you are tempted by the often-quoted example of Chrysler, 
you have to remember that the government played a critical role in its rescue.


Eric
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: chuck@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chuck Cullen x4423)
Subject: re:  Annual Reports : how to get?
Reply-To: chuck@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chuck Cullen x4423)
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 19:59:34 GMT


From: salim@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Salim Alam)
> What is the easiest way to get annual reports from a publicly
> traded company (short of buying the stock) ? 

I recently went to the town library and asked the librarian how I
could find the address and phone number of a company.
She told me to go to the business reference section of the library and
look at the Million Dollar Directory.
Next day, I phoned the company and asked them to send me their annual report. 
Also, the library might already have the annual report of the company
that you're interested in.
(Give me an L, give me an I, give me a B, etc., boola boola)

Chuck Cullen
chuck@hq.ileaf.com
(617) 290-0710 x 4423

-- 

Chuck Cullen
Interleaf Inc., Prospect Place, 9 Hillside Ave., Waltham MA   02154
chuck@stowe.HQ.Ileaf.COM
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: fox@cs.nyu.edu (David Fox)
Subject: Re: Bush or Clinton
Organization: Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 23:01:04 GMT

In article <1426500240@igc.org> McAldon International Inc. <mcaldon@igc.org> writes:

   |Even our so-called more environmentally aware European brethren do
   |not protect the environment to the extent we do. If you don't
   |agree, I suggest you take a trip to Paris, Rome, Naples, ...

   How about New York, Los Angeles, Detroit...?  This myth of US superiority
   in pollution control was promoted by our "environmental" president based
   on a few regulations Congress was able to jam down his throat.

Actually, the administration has not yet been able to dismantle
the environmental regulations that have made the air in American
cities more breathable than that of European (or Asian) cities.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: markr@mot.com (Mark)
Subject: Re: Collecting 401K money
Reply-To: markr@mcil.comm.mot.com
Organization: MCIL
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 06:52:32 GMT

In article <samaddar.714247981@dumbo> samaddar@siemens.com writes:
>Under what circumstances can one withdraw 401K money before
>retirement? Is being unemployed enough proof of economic
>hardship? If so, what kind of penalty one has to pay for the
>withdrawl?

One can withdraw 401K funds at any time, which are subject to
normal income taxes plus a 10% penalty. (exception, some old
401K's started at certain companies as savings plans of which
some of the money was taxed already, in which case, that portion
does not have to have income taxes paid again)

I don't know if unemployment is sufficient hardship to get a
withdrawal without the 10% penalty, the income taxes must be
paid in all cases.  It may be possible to borrow from your
401K for a limited amount of time, but I don't think you can borrow
while unemployed.

>Now, suppose instead of being unemployed, one moves to another
>country and earns a salary which in dollar terms is quite low.
>Can one cite that low dollar income as economic hardship to
>get the 401K money?

I don't think so, but your tax rate at that time may make it
a little more palatable to withdraw the money and pay taxes on
it at a lower rate. (15% income + 10% penalty = 25% total)

Mark
Newsgroups: misc.invest