From: magnum@cs.umd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: bullet and gasoline truck
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:03:37 GMT


As usual when I want to throttle back the volume of traffic that leads us
off track, I'm collecting some posts about gasoline trucks and batching them
together here.  So the info is out, but with a lower number of articles to
skip over if you're so inclined.....

MODERATOR
rec.guns

 From:           lairdkb@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kyler Laird)
 Subject:        Re: bullet & gasoline truck
 Organization:   Purdue University Computing Center
 
 
 ##In article <53029@mimsy.umd.edu> jca@crash.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) writes:
 ###igniting diesel.  Diesel ignites under compression, not a spark.
 
 Yes, compression is one way of heating diesel fuel, but compression
 is not the only way.  I've ignited some sizeable flames with a pocket
 lighter.  (The trick is in exposing surface area...)
 
 --kyler
 

 From:           forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
 Subject:        Re: bullet & gasoline truck
 Organization:   gte
 
 In article <53066@mimsy.umd.edu>, me@asmodeus.u.washington.edu (My Account) writes:
 # In article <53046@mimsy.umd.edu> miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant) writes:
 # [part omitted for clarity]
 # # running and showing that the motor does NOT die. They also shoot tires and
 # # show that they do not "blow up". All in all a very good video.
 # 
 # Well, if you shoot the block with a .44 MAG then damn right it's gonna stop  
 # functioning (I should know, I'm a mechanic)
 # 
 # Engines just don't like running with cracked blocks...
 # 
 
 Likewise if the bullet happens to remove critical parts like the
 rotor, coil, throtle linkage, oil pan, oil filter, fuel filter, etc.
 
 Hell, hitting the fuel filter might even cause a fire/explosion: likewise
 if you put a hole in the gas tank such that the fuel spills on a hot 
 muffler.  But that's not real likely as it is very hard to hit a small,
 moving target when you *can* see it!
 
 One might prevent the car from going to far if the radiator and/or
 large hoses were ruptured, but that's still a very long shot.
 
 However, most of an engine is strong enough to deflect the bullets of
 most guns, so I wouldn't count on more than marking the vehicle for the
 cops.
 
 -- 
 It's a wonderful feeling when you voted for the winner, but the time to vote for
 the guy who "could win" is past: vote your conscience - Marrou/Lord in 92!
 Andrew Ford INTERNET: gtephx!forda@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
             UUCP: !uunet!samsung!romed!asuvax!gtephx!forda
 
 
 From:           jpcallis@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
 Subject:        Re: bullet & gasoline truck
 Organization:   Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK
 
 In article <53197@mimsy.umd.edu> infmx!gregm@uunet.UU.NET (Greg Mitchell) writes:
 #In article <53066@mimsy.umd.edu> me@asmodeus.u.washington.edu (My Account) writes:
 ##Well, if you shoot the block with a .44 MAG then damn right it's gonna stop  
 ##functioning (I should know, I'm a mechanic)
 ##
 ##Engines just don't like running with cracked blocks...
 ##
 ##-Cohort
 #
 #Nor do they like running without coolant for very long.  ( Ever loose
 #a radiator hose or freeze plug ? )  If you were to pierce the water
 #jacket or much more likely put a hole in the radiator the car won't
 #get very far at all.  Same thing if you were to pierce the oil pan
 #( or filter, although unlikely ), it just aint going to go for very long.
 #And if you were to bust the carburetor and get a bunch of gas to run
 #over hot exhaust manifolds you'd probably get a good fire going real
 #quick.  I suppose its alot like shooting any other critter, they'll
 #die its just a matter of when.
 
 An engine will still run without oil or coolant; the cylinder walls become
 impregnated with oil enough to allow the engine to run without oil for 
 quite a while--you just have to keep the RPMs high enough to keep the
 pistons overcoming the friction. T'ain't smart to run the car w/out
 coolant, but it can be done. Busting up the carb, or the fuel injection
 system--now that's a horse of a different color. Th' car won't run 
 without fuel, and if you bust the bowls on the carb and flood the
 engine, it'll stop the engine and wash out the oil...but the bullet that
 hits the carburetor is more likely to go on through the firewall and hit
 a passenger...or at least mess up your radio real bad...:-)
 
 Anybody out there got a spare Ferrari? I'll take it out to my Grandpa's
 farm and test all these theories out :-)
 
 				James
 
 James P. Callison       Microcomputer Coordinator        OU Law Library 
 JCallison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   /\        JPCallis@uokmax.ecn.uoknor
 DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
    Opinions are like elbows: everybody has 'em, and nobody cares 
 	about anybody else'd until it's sticking in his ribs.
 


 From:           ins894r@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Aaron Wigley)
 Subject:        Re: bullet & gasoline truck
 Organization:   Monash University
 
 george@cs.purdue.edu (Michael J. George) writes:
 : 
 : As far as I know, it is air temp that ignites diesel (>800F), not the pressure
 : directly.  Though it *is* the pressure that will raise the cylinder air temp
 : that high.  This is from memory, so I may be wrong...
 
 Basic Physics:
 
 	PV = nRT
 
 where		P = pressure of gas
 		V = volume of gas
 		n = number of molecules in gas in mol
 		R = a constant
 		T = temperature in Kelvin.
 
 from this, keeping V and n constant, pressure is directly proportional
 to temperature, and visa-versa (double pressure, you double temperature of
 the gas). With Diesel, you do raise pressure, which in an enclosed volume
 (such as a piston head), to raise the temperature of diesel to flashpoint.
 
 (nb. this is also how they make liquid air - compress gaseous air, 
 and then rapidly drop the pressure, temperature drops taking the air from
 air to liquid.)
 
 : Michael George
 
 Aaron Wigley
 ins894r@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au