HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Newsgroup creation guidelines (was Re: Folklore, synth, and guidelines)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:42:28 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to strom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom):
>I was using the word "guidelines" loosely to refer to all the
>tutorial postings in news.announce.newusers: None are actually
>labelled as "guidelines" in their titles but reading them as a whole,
>they appear to function collectively as such.

You are mistaken.  Only "How To Create ..." contains a procedure which
must (for practical purposes) be followed.  The other articles merely
record societal conventions, which vary from newsgroup to newsgroup.
The term "the guidelines" refers _only_ to the former.

>I think a new user who reads both the "Primer" and "How to Create..."
>will assume that the Primer describes the proprieties for all
>articles, and How to Create describes the *additional* rules for
>newsgroup creation.

I would say "procedure" rather than "rules".  But in any case, the
distinction between procedure ("do A, then B, then C...") and
proprieties ("A is polite, B is impolite") is important; and you
seem to have entirely missed that important distinction.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
  "you make me want to break the laws of time and space / you make me
   want to eat pork / you make me want to staple bagles to my face /
   and remove them with a pitchfork" -- Weird Al Yankovic, "You Make Me"
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: dennett@acadia.Kodak.COM (Charles R. Dennett)
Subject: Re: etiquette
Organization: Eastman Kodak Co., Rochester, NY
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 20:00:35 GMT

In article <797@ulogic.UUCP> hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman) writes:
>
>MN.ORG should have a case for disconnecting anatolia's feed, since 
>the MN.ORG computer has been crashed as a result of actions
>initiated by anatolia's users.  Disruption of service should
>always be good for a disconnect.  note: the crash was due to
>overload from mail-bombs heading *for* anatolia, but clearly
>in response *to* the mass of postings coming from anatolia.
>
>However, from a previous posting I gather that even if MN.ORG
>cut anatolia off, there is still a UUnet connection...
>
>UUnet may have a harder time justifying it, unless there is a
>clause in the feed contract stating that they expect their 
>clients to follow the guidelines of the Usenet.  If there is
>such a clause, maybe UUnet can use it as justification for
>cutting off the connection.
>

Well, maybe something has happened.  It's been two days and nothing
from our friend, at least in n.a.p.  Shucks, and just when
I was going to tell you all about my fantastic turkey dinner we
had here in Greece, NY (yup, that the name of the town where
I live.)  :-)

Charlie Dennett --  dennett@kodak.com
From: josephs@msen.com (Joseph Stroup)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: COSAR README
Date: 30 Dec 1992 19:05:11 -0500
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, Michigan
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.msen.com

Cosar-Argic-Mutlu and whatever other name you are known by.

Attention on the Net. For what its worth - probably not much.
E-mail has been sent to the Univ. of Minn. and UUNET complaining
about this head case. Also a formal request as to his student/
INS status has been requested. If he wants to show off his techie'
talents fine - just keep it in the lab. Cosar must stay in school
in order to maintain his status in the United States. Being allowed
to go to school here is one thing - using facilities for games is another.
This almost seems like a National Security Nuisanse thing...maybe the NSA
should see who this character is. 
I am all for freedom of speech - as long as it does not tread on the
rights of others. I am not for people who are guests in our country
and start abusing their welcome. 
This junk has caused a small system in Minn. alot of grief. Lets all
work together to solve this problem so that a pattern does not emerge.
-- 
Joseph Stroup      Network Users Group, Ltd.
                   Internet Access Available
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: kdenning@portal.hq.videocart.com (Karl Denninger)
Subject: Re: Serdar Argic (was Re: Meanwhile, back at news.admin.policy)
Organization: VideOcart Inc.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:41:58 GMT

In article <1gnbq0INN6d3@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens) writes:
>In article <visser.724483820@convex.convex.com>, visser@convex.com (Lance Visser) writes:
>|> 	He has managed to do a great deal of damage to soc.history
>|> and soc.culture.europe as groups by his postings.  There is nothing
>|> than can be done about it though.
>
>If it's really as bad as you say it is (and, given what I've seen of his
>postings, I have no reason to doubt you), then why hasn't the site from which
>he posts shut off his posting access?
>
>If the site from which he posts is sympathetic to his behavior (unfortunately,
>there are propaganda sites that support such activities) , then why haven't
>their feed sites cut them off?
>
>He's clearly violating both the spirit and letter of the etiquette and posting
>rules found in news.announce.newusers and (by and large) accepted by people. 
>So why does he still have posting access?

Perhaps because he owns the machine he is posting from, and he has a link
with a common-carrier style site which takes his money and forwards his
postings.

That might having something to do with it.

--
Karl Denninger 		Inet:  kdenning@hq.videocart.com
VideOcart Inc.		Voice: (312) 987-5022
From: andy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Andrew Hackard)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: Hypocrisy, double standards and "Po Shan Cheah".
Date: 29 Dec 92 19:26:31 GMT
Followup-To: news.admin.policy
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

pcheah@nyx.cs.du.edu (Po Shan Cheah) writes:

>>As the recent spate of posts show, that garrulous piece of AI junk
>>Serdar Argic is now crossposting to news.admin.policy, as well as
>>about half a dozen other newsgroups. *sigh* Pure killfile fodder. 

sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) replies:

>Cannot contest the points, so sling mud at the person or make
>disparaging personal remarks. You are so narrow-minded you could 
>see through a keyhole with both eyes.

You can't contest an avalanche, either.  That doesn't mean snow is true.

(I like the keyhole comment, though.  It's actually kind of cute.)

--
--Andrew Hackard                                 If I spoke for UT, this post
  andy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu                        would make even less sense.
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Still not addressing the original points made, asshole
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 03:28:58 GMT

In article <C01rt8.9u8@exnet.co.uk> dhd@exnet.co.uk (Damon) writes:
>I think the term to use rather than `talks' is `masturbates', ie SA is,
>I would suggest, getting off on all this discussion in rather the same
>way that a young child gets off on bowel control or a someone rather
>older gets off masturbating over a dirty mag.

One reason Argic does it is that people believe him, or at least believe in
some equality between his posts and the posts of his opponents:  even those
who complain about him often fall for his trickery by thinking that there's a
real dispute over who massacred who in {Turks,Armenians}.  It's as if someone
were to post articles about Jews killing Nazis and annoyed people were to reply
with "I'm sure that a lot of Nazis killed a lot of Jews, and a lot of Jews
killed a lot of Nazis, but would you please shut up about it?"

Maybe we need something in news.announce.newusers about Turks and Armenians....
--
"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Leftover Turkey!
On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Turkey Casserole
    that she made from Leftover Turkey.
[days 3-4 deleted] ...  Flaming Turkey Wings! ...
   -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader)
Subject: Re: Killfiles
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, Canada
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 10:23:16 GMT

> The relevant line in mine reads:
>
> /name of poster/h:j
>
> which kills all articles with his name anywhere in the header.  If you
> are really feeling unfriendly, change the "h" to "a" to kill all articles
> which even mention him (although this will take a bit longer at startup).

For those who *do* use the "a" modifier (and therefore didn't see the
above article), it is sometimes useful to have the same entry without
this modifier first.  That is, do two or all three of:

	/name of poster/:j
	/name of poster/h:j
	/name of poster/a:j

Due to the time taken to do the "a" searches, this can result in a
noticeable time saving.

I also recommend doing :=:j rather than :j, by way of confirmation that
you're killing something that looks relevant, at least when using the
"h" and "a" modifiers.
-- 
Mark Brader              | "I think it's safe to say that no person can hope to
SoftQuad Inc., Toronto   |  achieve basic life competence without consulting my
utzoo!sq!msb, msb@sq.com |  work on a regular basis."     -- Cecil Adams

This article is in the public domain.
From: stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: Newsgroup creation guidelines
Date: 22 Dec 92 02:31:45 GMT
Organization: Oregon State University, College of Oceanography
NNTP-Posting-Host: skyking.oce.orst.edu

In article <1992Dec21.221348.36268@watson.ibm.com> strom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom) writes:
>My specific proposals would affect "How to Create..."
>as well as "User's Guide..."

You had better make them again, for I have seen no suggestions from you
regarding the User's Guide, only some regarding the "guidelines". Which
I responded to and for which I have seen no reply.
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: jbm@hal.trl.OZ.AU (Jacques Guy)
Subject: Re: Question about our friend
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 23:17:08 GMT

eluyten@rc1.vub.ac.be (Eric Luyten) writes:


>Before I attempt to do it, has someone already done some analysis on the
>stuff it produces ? i.e. Gather ALL articles originating from the site for
>a certain period of time and check posting dates/times, length, consistency,
>typing errors, repeats, ... ?

I have. I have collected everything on soc.culture.europe for almost
a year now, and have written a program to produce very detailed statistics.
(Time of the day and volume posted, hour by hour, proportion of
posts by topic, number, and length. Some weeks Mutlu/Argic posted
half a megabyte, accounting for 70% and more of the total traffic).
I used to post the weekly statistics on soc.culture.europe under the
title "Weekly Mutlu Index", preceded with zany editorials when I 
was in the mood. I still save everything off soc.culture.europe,
but haven't run and produced any Mutlu Index for about three months
(getting a bit boring, it is). I have saved all the past data, and
issues of the Weekly Mutlu index on a streaming tape. You're all
welcome to the whole sorry lot.
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.sysadmin,news.groups,alt.config
From: bengtl@maths.lth.se (Bengt Larsson)
Subject: Re: Advertising on Net: how can we stop it?
Organization: Lund Institute of Technology, Sweden
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 10:26:03 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.100006.16053@pegasus.com> tleylan@pegasus.com (Tom Leylan) writes:

>You see we just want free-flowing and unrestricted information and if
>that is somebody explaining how clever he is because he pirated some
>PC game or the company who's came he stole announcing the new low price
>we believe they deserve equal time.

This stuff is about categorizing information, not restricting it.

-- 
Bengt Larsson - bengtl@maths.lth.se

Xref: sparky news.admin.technical:95 news.software.readers:2569
From: Tim Pierce <twpierce@unix.amherst.edu>
Newsgroups: news.admin.technical,news.software.readers
Subject: Re: Following Up to 'X'ed Groups, Revisited
Date: 28 Dec 1992 12:52:32 -0500
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ftp.uu.net

In article <1992Dec22.220929.21666@clarinet.com> brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes:

>The question is deciding what's an error and what's a warning.  I think
>posting to an invalid newsgroup or an unpostable group is an error.  The
>user wants the chance to correct the error and repost.

It's a stickier issue than that, though: a user who posts to an
invalid newsgroup and, simultaneously, to a valid one has just
committed an error, but has not committed an error.  Very Zen.

>Posting an article causes changes which can be cancelled, but not entirely
>undone.  Thus just about any problem in posting should be an error causing
>an abort and a message to the user -- making sure the article text is available
>for reposting after correction.

This can be fairly inconvenient for groups which have a high
percentage of crosspostings.  Perhaps the posting interface could
identify the invalid groups and, if any are present, tell the user
"The following newsgroups may not be posted to locally: alt.foo.bar,
comp.blat.zip, etc.  Post to remaining groups (y/n)?"  This would
allow the user to abort if necessary, but would reduce the hassle for
the (fairly common) case in which the user *does* wish to post to the
valid groups.  Besides, it seems like an appropriate halfway measure
for an error which is not an error.

What do y'all think?

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 

Xref: sparky news.admin.technical:92 news.misc:2068
From: dem@nhmpw2.fnal.gov (David E. Martin)
Newsgroups: news.admin.technical,news.misc
Subject: Need E-Mail <=> Netnews Gateway
Date: 21 Dec 1992 18:46:30 -0500
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory,  Batavia, IL,  USA
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dem@fnal.fnal.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: ftp.uu.net

We currently support several mailing lists.  We would like to provide
bi-directional gatewaying to specific netnews groups.  We do not have
our own news server, but could set one up (though I'd rather not).
Can anyone point me to some software (public domain or commercial both
ok) that will provide bi-directional gatewaying?  It need to run on
Sun/SunOS or Vax/VMS.


David E. Martin
National HEPnet Management                      ||    Phone: +1 708 840-8275
Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory           ||    FAX: +1 708 840-8463
P.O. Box 500, MS 368; Batavia, IL 60510  USA   /  \   E-Mail: dem@hep.net

Newsgroups: news.admin.technical,news.software.readers
From: Tim Pierce <twpierce@unix.amherst.EDU>
Subject: Following Up to 'X'ed Groups, Revisited
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:18:41 GMT

In article <Bz5pyw.CF4@unix.amherst.edu> I wrote:

>Shouldn't the posting
>mechanism post the article to the groups which *are* valid?  Should
>the x'ed groups even show up in the Newsgroups line when an article
>lands here?

I've gotten a lot of feedback on the second question, which I agree
was not well thought out.  It makes more sense to me not to rewrite
the headers, philosophically as well as technically.

However, I haven't heard much on the first question.  If inews is
handed a post with several groups on the Newsgroups line, some of
which have "x" (or "n", for that matter) in their active file entries,
why shouldn't inews simply post the message to the remaining groups
and ignore the invalid ones?  (After warning the user that some of the
specified newsgroups are disabled locally, of course.)  I can't think
of any situation in which I wouldn't want this to happen.

I'm new to news administration -- a fact which should probably come as
news to few of you -- so I apologize if this is a FAQ.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 

Xref: sparky news.admin.technical:93 news.misc:2074
From: cs@Germany.EU.net (Chris Schmidt)
Newsgroups: news.admin.technical,news.misc
Subject: Re: Need E-Mail <=> Netnews Gateway
Date: 22 Dec 1992 12:39:19 -0500
Organization: EUnet Backbone, Dortmund, Germany
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ftp.uu.net

In article <1h5l0mINN304@ftp.UU.NET>, dem@nhmpw2.fnal.gov (David E. Martin) writes:
|> We currently support several mailing lists.  We would like to provide
|> bi-directional gatewaying to specific netnews groups.  We do not have
|> our own news server, but could set one up (though I'd rather not).
|> Can anyone point me to some software (public domain or commercial both
|> ok) that will provide bi-directional gatewaying?  It need to run on
|> Sun/SunOS or Vax/VMS.

Send e-mail to rsalz@uunet.uu.net (Rich Salz). He wrote a package called
newsgate which should be OK for you ...
As far as I know it is still beta and because of that not available on any
ftp-server but I guess Rich might be willing to send you a copy ...

	Chris Schmidt

  ===    ____                          ===       EUnet Deutschland GmbH
  ===   /      /   /   ___    ___  _/_ ===       News-Support
  ===  /----  /   /  /   /  /___/  /   ===       Emil-Figge-Str. 80
  === /____  /___/  /   /  /___   /    ===       D-W-4600 Dortmund 50, Germany
  =====                              =====       Tel. +49 231 755 2444
  ===== Connecting Europe since 1982 =====       Fax  +49 231 755 2386

Xref: sparky news.admin.technical:97 news.software.readers:2579
From: jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap)
Newsgroups: news.admin.technical,news.software.readers
Subject: Re: Following Up to 'X'ed Groups, Revisited
Date: 29 Dec 1992 13:06:50 -0500
Organization: AS&M Inc
Distribution: world
Reply-To: J Lee Jaap <J.L.Jaap@larc.nasa.gov>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ftp.uu.net

I think the Newsgroups header should remain intact by default, so that
on systems which do carry the locally-Xed groups do get the
appropriate followups.  I'm not sure the poster should be asked *on
followups*, unless the posting sw can determine that the poster
*added* locally-Xed groups.

--
J Lee Jaap <J.L.Jaap@LaRC.NASA.Gov> +1 804/864-2148
    employed by, not speaking for, AS&M Inc, at
         NASA LaRC, Hampton VA 23681-0001

Xref: sparky news.admin.technical:94 news.software.readers:2541
From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)
Newsgroups: news.admin.technical,news.software.readers
Subject: Re: Following Up to 'X'ed Groups, Revisited
Date: 23 Dec 1992 12:09:32 -0500
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ftp.uu.net

A general rule of good software design is that if an error is generated,
the software should abort with no side effects.

If a warning is generated, the software should continue as appropriate.
A warning in general is about something that likely has no bad consequences
or can easily be undone.   An uncasted type conversion often merits a warning
by a compiler -- the user can always fix it.

The question is deciding what's an error and what's a warning.  I think
posting to an invalid newsgroup or an unpostable group is an error.  The
user wants the chance to correct the error and repost.

Posting an article causes changes which can be cancelled, but not entirely
undone.  Thus just about any problem in posting should be an error causing
an abort and a message to the user -- making sure the article text is available
for reposting after correction.

-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366

Xref: sparky news.admin.technical:98 news.misc:2084
From: jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens)
Newsgroups: news.admin.technical,news.misc
Subject: Re: Need E-Mail <=> Netnews Gateway
Date: 29 Dec 1992 13:35:10 -0500
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ftp.uu.net

In article <1h7js8INNshd@ftp.UU.NET>, cs@Germany.EU.net (Chris Schmidt) writes:
|> Send e-mail to rsalz@uunet.uu.net (Rich Salz). He wrote a package called
|> newsgate which should be OK for you ...
|> As far as I know it is still beta and because of that not available on any
|> ftp-server

Not true.  It is available as "newsgate" in volume 24 of comp.sources.unix.

[I.e. - you should get it from your nearest c.s.u archive and not bother
Rich.  -- \scott news.admin.technical moderator]

-- 
Jonathan Kamens                                         jik@MIT.Edu
Aktis, Inc.                                 Moderator, news.answers

Xref: sparky news.admin.technical:99 news.misc:2085
From: rsalz@rodan.UU.NET (Rich Salz)
Newsgroups: news.admin.technical,news.misc
Subject: Re: Need E-Mail <=> Netnews Gateway
Date: 29 Dec 1992 16:00:16 -0500
Organization: UUNET Technologies Inc, Falls Church, VA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ftp.uu.net

My news/mail gateway package, known as "newsgate" appeared in Volume 24
of comp.sources.unix.

I have a more recent version that fixes one or two bugs, adds some
features -- the usual kind of thing.  *That* version is in beta, and is
available only by writing to rsalz@uunet.uu.net, and only if you promise
not to redistribute it anywhere.

If the c.s.unix version works for you, please do not ask for the beta.

I will release it when I get some time.  At that point you will be able
to do anything you want to with the code, as pretty much the case with
almost everything I make available over the net.
	/r$

Newsgroups: news.admin,news.sysadmin,news.groups,alt.config
From: tleylan@pegasus.com (Tom Leylan)
Subject: Re: Advertising on Net: how can we stop it?
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 06:48:22 GMT

bengtl@maths.lth.se (Bengt Larsson) writes:
>tleylan@pegasus.com (Tom Leylan) writes:
>
>>You see we just want free-flowing and unrestricted information and if
>>that is somebody explaining how clever he is because he pirated some
>>PC game or the company who's came he stole announcing the new low price
>>we believe they deserve equal time.
>
>This stuff is about categorizing information, not restricting it.

Thank you for repeating the words of all those who favor restrictions
on free speech... "categorizing" what an interesting euphemism.

When is the last time you explained to somebody in one of the comp.
newsgroups that discussions of software piracy belong in the
"pir" hierarchy so that everybody who doesn't want to read it won't
have to pay for it ?

tom

Xref: sparky news.admin:8773 news.sysadmin:1584 news.groups:24916
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.sysadmin,news.groups
Subject: Re: was :Re: Advertising on Net: how can we stop it?
Date: 26 Dec 92 00:51:43 GMT
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.

In article <sphrc0a@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
>If Usenet users ever had to quit freeloading off the governments, the 
>universities and/or their employers and had to pay for their access,
>paid advertising might look interesting.

Congratulations, John. You've just invented Prodigy :-)

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.sysadmin,news.groups,alt.config