From: by403@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Subject: re: Hasan B Mutlu
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 04:26:27 GMT


kdenning@portal.hq.videocart.com (Karl Denninger) writes:
> I guess you're intending to censor all the people in talk.abortion then yes?
> I doubt that anyone could make an argument that they are (for the most part
> at least) doing anything other than attempting to further their cause (on
> BOTH sides).

I see no 600 KB/week abortion flamefests on soc.singles, soc.culture.usa, 
talk.politics.*; I don't see 600 KB/week gun flamefest postings in 
sci.aerospace, sci.military, soc.culture.usa, rec.sports.guns, etc.

> >the foundation of the net. Nobody has complained about the posting of
> >volumes and volumes of data in, say, alt.fractals, comp.binaries.*, or
> >rec.jokes. 
> 
> Which is the point.  Mutlu's VOLUME alone is insignificant in the grand
> scheme of things.

I agree. But again, tolerating abuse only invites more abuse. The net dealt
with headhunters, cancel bombers, "make $1000/day fast", etc. Why not now?

> You have one point here which is worthy of recognition IMHO.  The use of
> anonymous posting service(s) to hide behind (which is EXACTLY what he is
> doing right now -- michigan.com as a domain park is OFF THE AIR at this time
> as JP and company folded) is, IMHO, reprehensible.

Yes...

> I would >welcome< the presence of headhunters personally; anything which
> enhances people's standard of living (and these folks generally do) is ok
> with me.....  as I always say, "I listen to all offers at the time they're
> received".

Then you're opening up the net for commercial use. Today the headhunters,
tomorrow the Hair Club For Men, Monday the Juicer guy, and so on. Why
not create com.headhunters, com.slimy-products, com.hair-club-for-men ???

Since Mutlu targets entire ethnic/religious/nation groups with his
drivels, I can only group him as such; Don't try to put him on the
same league with Sean Eric F., B1FF, the kid from England with the
postcards, or anyone else; 

> He's not being very effective given that probably 95% of those who read the
> groups have him in KILL files, and the rest love the flamefests. ;-)

Under the logic above, headhunters, the KKK, or the guy who sells
Juicers (tm) can post all they want because strategically created kill
files (/Juicer/K, /heads-r-us.com/K, /KKK/K) would get rid of them. 

> THEY ALREADY DO.  Again, see the arguments, er, discussions in the
> talk.abortion and talk.politics.guns groups...

But they stay where they're supposed to. See my opening paragraph please.


> The lack of accountability is really the only point I have issue with in the
> abstract.  It is simply wrong to run around and libel people, and to hide
> behind a un-replyable address is much worse.  Insults are one thing -- if 
> you don't like those, get the heck off the net; its not for you.  But "so 
> and so the criminal" and "so and so the terrorist" are a different matter 
> entirely.  This has, IMHO, crossed the line from insult to actionable 
> statement.

Personal insults are a way of life at Usenet. I actually enjoy the role
of King Tri*. But attacks on entire ethnic/religious/nation groups, or
outright slander as you pointed above are a bit too much to digest.

Thank you for your comments,

Spiros
--
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos			by403@freenet.cleveland.edu
(Not really in Cleveland)			c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com


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