From: c60a-zg@volga.Berkeley.EDU (Martin Guerrero-LabA)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Re: Abortion Rights = Self Determination
Date: 28 Jul 92 08:48:02 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley

In article <1992Jul27.180856.8765@rossinc.com> steveth@rossinc.com (Steve Thomas) writes:
>In article <70457@apple.Apple.COM> athos@Apple.COM (Richard Eames) writes:
>>
>> [stuff deleted...]
>>
>>In any case, I find it incredible that you would tell me to just look the other
>>way when I think a murder is happening.  How could you say this?
>>
>>I have noticed that the Pro-Choice crowd has become more and more abusive over
>>the past couple of years.  I can't enter a rational debate with anyone without
>>being called a nasty name, told I am a Nazi or anything like that.  I'm tired
>>of it.  You can be civil and still be passionate about your topic and views.
>>
>
>I'm very sorry about that.  I often get a bad feeling about many pro-choice
>activists and their rather irrational attitudes and arguments.  It makes me
>nervous to think that THOSE people are in charge of defending my rights...
>
>The issue consists of two things:
>
>1. Unborn fetuses are NOT human beings.
>2. People have a right to choose what they do with their own bodies.
>
>It's really very simple, actually.  I think the majority of this country
>agrees with #1 and #2.  

Wrong.  Do you seriously think that the majority of this country think
that human life begins at birth? (human life begins at birth <=>
unborn fetuses are not human beings).

Let's assume that human life does begin at birth.  So what happens a
few milliseconds before that infant is born?  Do you mean to say that
it is not life?  Is it just a bunch of tissue and cell and therefore, it
could be extracted like a parasite?

Then we move the time a little earlier.  What difference does the infant
10 milliseconds before it was born have with an infant 100 milliseconds
after it was born?  Did a few magic cells spring up which suddenly said
"I'm human?"  Did some special force suddenly endow this bunch of 
cells to be human at this point?  And what about the unborn at 500
milliseconds before birth. And you can go on and on and on until you
find a natural singularity.  Feel free to use your common sense on this one.

>I wouldn't call you a "NAZI".  I'd call you a Christian--a rather zealous
>one that needs everybody else to be Christians.  Even if you are not one,
>the anti-choice movement clearly is.  Like the FAoD people, the anti-choice
>people have a hidden adgena, and theirs consists of forcing the Biblical
>views of sex and reproduction on the American public.
>
Here we go again.  Haven't you noticed that most of the pro-life people
here have never resorted to Biblical phrases or anything of the sort?  None
have even mentioned one religion or another in saying so.  WHat if I were
to say to you that I am an Athiest?  These "damn Christian pro-life
people" right?  

The fact is, there are athiests and lots of non-Christians who are pro-life?
This is a question of humanity, not religion.  When people start tagging
pro-life people as religious to take advantage of the anti-religious
feeling in certain parts of this country, they lose sight of the
fact that humans are involved.  It is a human concern.  Christian or
non-Christian, Hindu, or not, athiest, agnostic, or a believer in a God,
we all are humans and that the concern for life is universal in that
encompasses ALL OF US.