HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hwt@bcarh11a.BNR.CA (Henry Troup)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: pentacles and swaztikas
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:23:49 GMT
Reply-To: Henry.Troup@BNR.CA
Distribution: rec
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada

In article <VADER.92Sep18144528@meryl.csd.uu.se>, vader@meryl.csd.uu.se
(]ke Eldberg) writes:
|>If the person wearing the symbol explains to me that his own interpreta-
|>tion of the symbolism is entirely different, I can understand this intel-
|>lectually, but I am still uncomfortable with the symbol.

Well said!

BTW, this quarter's Rotunda, the magazine of the Royal Ontario Museum,
has an article on bats, and a picture of an imperial robe with bats and
swastikas as symbols for good luck.

However, just try registering a shield in the SCA with bats and swastikas!
                                                                            
  Henry Troup - HWT@BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions
  End of World predicted for September 1994 - Party 1st October 1994, my place
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mdewis@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au ( Mark Richard Dewis)
Subject: Re: Re:One Oh
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 01:17:16 GMT

I'll sing you Eight, oh
Green grow the rushes, oh!
What is your Eight, oh?
Eight for the noble motives
Seven for the Seven raised up on high; and
Six for the Six proud Servants
Five for the Symbol that's a chore; and
Four for the Picture Makers
Three, Three, the Pillars
Two, Two, the genders true
Clothed all in rules-o
One is the forum all alone
That's known as the Rialt-o!

(Eight fits, but is nessecarily subjective, and thus open to
interpretation.)
(Yes, I will explain it all at the end :)
(verse nine tomorrow)

-- Richard of Dunheved, Lochac.
-- 

mdewis@pieman.compserv.utas.edu.au ... but you can call me Richard.
Forma Propositum Perpetuo Praecedit. 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sussman@socrates.umd.edu (Jeff Sussman)
Subject: Re: Barons and their removal
Organization: University of Maryland University College
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:41:41 GMT

Greetings from Richard!

>Angharad and >>Justin wrote:

>>In the discussion of how Barons should be appointed & removed (disappointed?)

>>Richard Fitzgilbert presents the monarchist view that Barons should be
>>dealt with by the will of the King. That may be fine for Atlantia, but
>>I really doubt it would work in the East. With such a large Kingdom,
>>even a well-intentioned Monarch is going to have a truly difficult
>>time knowing what's best for a particular Barony, because he or she
>>simply isn't likely to know the group well enough to know what's best
>>for it.

My intent in my origonal post, on this subject, was just to give one example of
a rationale policy.  The most important lesson to be learned is that there must
be a clear policy for the replacement of barons and baronesses.  This policy 
should be set at either the kingdom or baronial level.  For large kingdoms, the
policies would have to be set for each barony.  Some combination of local input
and royal ratification is required.  I do not think that the board should set
an SCA wide policy just "encourage" each kingdom to establish their own policy,
or sets of policies.

>Also, having lived through five hat fights, I both disagree with Richard
>about the limits rule -- the idea of _requiring_ hat fights when you
>could avoid them makes me shudder

If there is a clear policy there will be much less heartburn.  In Atlantia,
once the policy was in place, the rest was painless.

>I'm afraid this is another of those "no good solution" problems the
>real world is so good at presenting.

I think if everyone knows the rules, then good solutions will be easier to
find.


Richard						Jeff Sussman
Storvik						Silver Spring
Atlantia					Maryland




From: Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Summer garb, EK History, etc.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:42:28

 EVW> Huh?  Ansteorra gets to hot wear Elizabethan?  Since when? :-)

 Maybe you don't overheat, Lord Nicholas, but some of us do -- especially when  we're heralding in the sun, marshalling (same), fighting- my armor is hot - I  want out of it -- and long sleeves asap when I'm out of the tourney.

 -- Vashti




 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: zebee@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au (Zebee Johnstone)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Inexpensive, good looking armor
Date: 5 Oct 92 07:01:19 GMT
Organization: The University of Adelaide
NNTP-Posting-Host: sirius.itd.adelaide.edu.au

Twcs reckons:

>Yep, he's right again, if you go for a Visby or similar style of
>armour.  Guys, however, don't have the requirement of solid breast
>protection.  I will opine that ladies usually have to favor later
>styles of armour in order to have good looking and legal armour that
>will pass inspection.  (Ha!  I bet I just started another thread
>on the rialto.  Any lady fighters out there want to contradict me?)

Well, yes.

I wear a leather jerkin with plates in vlunerable areas, and a commercial
martial arts breastplate under it.  Plastic, shaped just right, 
and fits under the gambeson.  Looks real flattering too...

Now if anyone can show me some comfortable groin guard that doesn't look
like a bikini, or make me walk funny, I'd be interested to see it....

Selfran

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
     Zebee Johnstone  DoD #605   | You don't own an Italian motorcycle 
     Adelaide City Council       |  - you merely have the privilege 
    zebee@itd.adelaide.edu.au    |    of paying its bills.... 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cassie@worf.nas.nasa.gov (Cassandra L. Baldassano)
Subject: West Kingdom October Crown
Organization: Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation Facility NASA
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 16:43:59 GMT
Reply-To: cassie@worf.nas.nasa.gov (Cassandra L. Baldassano)


The new Crown Prince of the West is Duke Jade of Starfall, who fought
Viscount Fabian Arnett von Schwetzinger (sp?) in the final round. The
lists consisted of 97 fighters on a beautiful day for fighting.

Euriol of Lothian
From: c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: a "hair raising" question
Date: 30 Sep 92 04:11:39 GMT


	Milords and ladies,

	Please pardon the pun, but I've a small question.  My lady and I
are planning to attend our first event together in some few weeks.  My
question is this:  What hair style would be appropriate for my lady?
Her hair is long enough to not be short, but short enough to not be very
long (inches above her shoulder blades)  The look we are going for is
"generic medieval" (do you get the feeling we are only slightly worried
about authenticity?  Simplicity is a key word)

	Any help is greatly appreciated.  E-mail is especially welcome,
as this group seems to generate much traffic.

		My thanks,
		  Michael Carson
	     c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: shrum@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Rick Shrum)
Subject: Re: t-- Re: t// Re: T/T: Statistics - rec.org.mensa most prolific posters!
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr, Calif.
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 23:37:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.231828.1418@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>
>shrum@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Rick Shrum) writes:
>|> Scott,
>|> 
>|> Well, at least I see your speech patterns are improving!
>|> Nah, dissing you ain't my personal crusade; more like a
>|> hobby. Actually, I am genuinly (sp? - I'm no MENSAN!)
>|> interested in why you hate MENSA so. No BS; really. Why?
>|> And why do you carry in on for so long? I care.
>|> Get MIKE STEINER to quit posting? No way, I enjoy a good
>|> Steiner Liner ( ;^]   to MS ).
>|> Assphinctersayswhat?
>|> 
>|> YEE-HAWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>MENSA is an organization whose membership is contingent upon 
>scoring high on standardized tests of dubious merit, and this 
>is why I am here.  I hold nothing against the formation of 
>elitist organizations, but I have more respect for those which 
>base their membership on more solid ground, such as technical, 
>professional, or even financial success.  I am not trying to say 
>that an organization of intelligent people should not exist; I 
>merely state that MENSA is not necessarily an organization of 
>intelligent people.  I do not believe such an organization exists.
>
>YEE-HAWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>--
>Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
>NCSU Artificial Intelligence Lab
>Centennial Campus
>


Scott,

Well, even if what you are saying is true, why does it bother you so
much for them to exist. Do you think they are going to disband if
you nag them long enough? As far as their tests having dubious merit,
well, if you are aware of this, then you must certainly have the necessary
expertese to design a test which would be fair and equitable. 
It is none of my business whatsoever in what you want to post, but   
IMTUO (In MY Totally Unsolicited Opinion) it seems you're obsessing.
Also, like I said, I am not a MENSAN (Duh?).


                    Ye Ha,



                            R ****
                             I
                              C
                          **** K
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Famous Mensans
Date: 1 Oct 92 21:13:10 GMT

In article <BvG0I3.93t@news.larc.nasa.gov>, yaros@sab57.larc.nasa.gov (Steve Yaros) writes:
> 
> All right...at the risk of boring you all with repetition, this card-carrying
> Mensan would like to ask for the names of famous Mensans.  I was asked for
> this info and came up with a near blank.

Isaac Asimov, F. Buckminster Fuller, Adrian Kronaur, Jean Auel, F. Lee
Bailey, Sir Clive Sinclair, Donald Petersen, and Geena Davis, to name a
few that come to mind.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: wiegand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert Wiegand)
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Reply-To: motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: "world"
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:05:55 GMT

yoo@netcom.com (Young-Kyu Yoo) writes:

>A true scientist and skeptic, I think, remains neutral on a question until
>the physical data tips the scale in one direction or the other.  To those
>who dismiss astrology without testing it empirically themselves or 
>critically examining the small body of serious scientific work on the
>subject (there have been many attempts to debunk it...but very few such
>attempts hold up under serious scientific or mathematical scrutiny...
>a consequence of the fact that most debunkers are not serious
>scientists), I would say that it is not skepticism they are practicing,
>but an UNscientific, unexamined prejudice against the so-called pseudo-sciences.

The way I see it, its the supporters of astrology who must prove that
it works, its not up to the skeptics to disprove it.

Just because I'm a skeptic doesn't mean that I have to use up all my time
disproving every crack-pot claim someone makes.

When you make an extraordinary claim (such as that astrology works) its
up to you to prove it. Until you do I have no obligation to believe you.

I have never heard of any serious study which supported the claims
of astrology. If you know of any please let us know.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Wiegand - Motorola Inc.
motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net            uunet!motcid!wiegand
Disclamer: I didn't do it - I was somewhere else at the time.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: t// t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:45:40 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.015836.17520@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>
>mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas) writes:
>|> In article <1992Sep29.222847.11002@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>|> >
>|> >"Eric":
>|> >
>|> >You're not more intelligent; you simply scored higher on a test
>|> >whose validity is questionable.
>|> 
>|> Just because he scored high on a test, that doesn't mean he *isn't* more
>|> intelligent.
>
>"John":
>
>True.  However, it is important to note that high IQ is a 
>necessary but *not sufficient* condition for high achievement, 
>while low IQ virtually assures failure at high academic and 
>occupational levels.
>

In school, as in work, much is based on perception.  If a teacher
is told that a student has a learning disability of any kind, this
will sway that teacher (or in work, that boss) to expect and to
reinforce negative expectations.  This is irrelevant to the
accuracy of the testing.  

However, it is a different case if the IQ testing is done in some
way as to make the scores secret from the person evaluating
later performance.  This is difficult to do.  As an example,
every kid in school knows who the "slow" ones are and what
the "slow" classes are.  And the "smart" and the "special"
classes. And this starts from very, very early on.

Now, if perception were virtually eliminated as a factor (I don't
believe it ever fully can), would you say that a low IQ score
still assures failure?  I would agree that that is that case.
Assuming what activity you are discussing is one that requires
intelligence.  Not all do.

If you also say that a high IQ is not sufficient for success, I
would say, "Well, duh!"  It is obvious that great strength does
not guarantee success as a weightlifter if one does not participate
in meets.  And it is obvious that lack of strength will guarantee
failure as a lifter.  "Duh" again.

One could even out lifting events by giving every lifter a 
handicap.  This "evens out the playing field", to be sure.
This is what golf handicaps are for and what weight classes
are for at lifting meets.  It works okay.  But when the meets
take place, the big draw is always the heavyweights.

When a lifter trains, nutrition and supplements are brought into
play to make use of the lifter's highest potential.  However,
never are the better lifters forced to eat poorer food or train
less.  And when all is said and done, there may be thousands
of people walking around with the Gold's shirts, but only
a few of them fit.

Now all this may seem so obvious, but although there may be
good lifters all over the city, the suburbs and the country,
the fact is that when you want to meet other lifters, you
usually go to the gym.

GMS
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: t// REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY - 09/28/92
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 07:20:29 GMT

gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>ron@syacus.acus.oz.au (Ron Williams) writes:
>>Take a course in NLP.
>NLP?
>GMS

NLP = NeuroLinguistic Programming, Bandler & Grinder (probably upon work
done by Milton Erickson (sp?)) - excellent book by Jay Haley about Erickson's
work. Title I forget. Erickson == way cool, Bandler & Grinder whether right
or wrong seem self-serving & messianic.

Another pseudo-scientific new-agey thing with adherents and detractors.
The most useful stuff I got from that was to watch where my eyes went
in response to different questions or stimuli, to get a feel for what
part of the brain was doing processing for the event.

They claim to be able to reprogram behaviors with it, I haven't checked it out.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz)
Subject: Re: t// Re: T/ Re: T% Thought for the Day
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:36:20 GMT

mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:

>In article <1992Sep29.222538.10743@ncsu.edu>, tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>> 
>> rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz) writes:
>> 
>> MENSA is simply one more dangerous way in which one group of people 
>> attempt to set themselves apart -- and by 'apart' one invariably finds 
>> 'superior', since few people desire to join an organization which claims 
>> its members are 'inferior' -- from the rest of the populace.  Of such 
>> 'harmless' little groups are born the divisive philosophies which feed 
>> nationalism, racism, and separate us from each other.

>There is only one word that adequately describes what you wrote.  That
>word is "bullshit."

No, Mike there are many such words.  The one you chose is merely the most
efficient one.  :-)

-rich
-- 
             Richard H. Schwartz, Scheduling Systems Inc.,
            1000 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge, MA  02138
                  (617) 864 8330; FAX (617) 864 8377
                          rhs@world.std.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: not@ailab.ncsu.edu (N O Tai)
Subject: Re: alt.tasteless perhaps?
Reply-To: not@ailab.ncsu.edu (N O Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 22:08:10 GMT


From the keyboard of ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic):
: not@ailab.ncsu.edu (N O Tai) writes:
: >
: >From the keyboard of ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic):
: >
: >: The guy who does *not* intend to take a shit, does not see himself 
: >: at that moment of wondering why he has to sit on old dried urine at 
: >: other times.  Half a brain says lift the seat, but nooooooooooo he 
: >: can't bother with that.  Real bad for *scared to death of infection 
: >: and yukkies* like I was and still am somewhat.

: >I haven't seen much hostility towards Eric -- at least not nearly as
: >much as Scott Tai used to generate with his posts.  If Eric doesn't 
:                    ^^^^^^^
: >want to hear lovingly sarcastic opinions about his posts then he 
: >should keep them out of rec.org.mensa.

: Well, one is entitled to express one's self, isn't one?
: Dr. Tai, if you'd like to share yourself in the the way that I am doing,
: then please feel free. I'm sorry that so much of what I write is self-
: referential, but that's how I am at the moment.

Well... in the first commune I helped to start we had rented a store 
front as a living quarters in a small town. We had no table to eat on, the 
seven of us. I took the door off the bathroom and we propped it on saw 
horses and prepared and had supper. Afterwards, people wanted to use the 
john, which was right behind the bathroom door. People said, just go ahead 
and go, some others said they were embarrassed. One woman had a near 
nervous breakdown about it, but finally did use the john. The table became 
a permanent fixture. The next day when I came home from work, I found that 
same woman taking a shit while talking to four other people who were 
laying butt down in the dry old fashioned bathtub with feet. She wasn't 
embarrassed at all. So much for phobias.

Eric, if your reaction to toilet seats is conditioned and could as 
easily be de-conditioned, then you are simply expressing an irrational 
fear. Now what that fear is I cannot say.

Dr N.O. Tai
From: crawdad@fncent (Matt Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Geneticism
Date: 5 Oct 92 16:18:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: linac.CHNT#RIXL
Organization: FERMILAB, Batavia, IL

I think Steve Bacher may have erred in letting Rodney Adams' implicit
claim go unchalleneged.

>Rodney Adams:
>>I am e[sic]nclined to believe, as some researchers have suggested,
>>that homosexuality is caused by a genetic defect.  After all, it
>>definitely does not contribute to the survival of the species.

It definitely does not contribute?  Let's think about that.

If you'll allow me the assumption that in a self-sufficient
community, babies and children contribute less than is necessary to
support themselves, then you must agree that adults must contribute
more than is necessary for their own subsistence.

A non-reproductive adult, then, who contributes as much as
reproductive adults, would produce a surplus.  In times of scarcity,
such a surplus might make the difference between survival and failure
of the community as a whole.

Of course, in times of abundance the presence of non-reproductive
members would slow the spread of the community.  It would seem
optimal then, from a genetic standpoint, if the tendency toward
non-reproductive behavior were always available genetically (assuming
it requires any genetic information at all), but its expression were
triggered by environmental factors.

In other words, Steve, perhaps if you had been gestated during a
famine or drought, you'd be homosexual with exactly the genes you
have now.
			Matt Crawford
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas)
Subject: Re: ... Thought for the Day
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 21:59:38 GMT

In article <01GPEEQ175828WVZMY@ccfvx3.draper.com> seb@draper.com (Steve Bacher) writes:
>GMSsez:
>
>>more positive than the alternative.  Kind of like the separatism 
>>and inequality in women having separate, cleaner restrooms.
>
>How do you know women's restrooms are cleaner???
>--- -- --- ---- ------- --------- --- ----------

Lucky guess?
-- 
John Mechalas                                          "I'm not an actor, but
mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu                                 I play one on TV."
Aero Engineering, Purdue University                     #include disclaimer.h
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: t-- Re: t// t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Date: 1 Oct 92 15:46:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewse.1992Oct1.154606.2641
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Sep30.225554.250@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>
>sonic@cray.com (Curtis L. Swanson) writes:
>|> `'"Scott,"'`
>|> 
>|> Mike Steiner flames you because you don't listen.  You have demonstrated this 
>|> fact over the last few rounds of posting/flamage.  You post some questionable
>|> info, refuse to answer questions/concerns about them and get flamed.  Then you
>|> take a little break and the whole cycle repeats.  You even use your previous
>|> pre-typed crap over and over again.  Mike just flames more quickly than I do.
>|> Of course, I don't expect you to even read this post, much less think about 
>|> it's implications; I'm posting this for the benefit of the people who missed
>|> the previous rounds of flamage to give them a quick insight into the start
>|> of all this flamage.
>
>You ask, "Why is this guy going on like this?"  I really believe that you 
>guys deserve to be kicked in the ass every now and then by someone who 
>studies the brain SCIENTIFICALLY.  And I am no exception to the ass-kicking.  
>Kick back, I will enjoy it.  I enjoy intelligent debate, for it makes me and 
>those I debate stronger in the process.

Please purge these files, Scott.  This post of yours is from several 
months ago as well.  I let this go on for quite awhile, so realize
I'm trying to be fair.  I could merely post the numerous replies and
rebuttals you received the first time, but I can't afford the disk
space.

GMS
From: rothwell@brahms.udel.edu (James C. Rothwell)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Russell's Paradox
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:01:43 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Delaware

In my undergraduate math department we were required to do 4 colloquia
before graduating on any remotely mathematical topic.  For one of them I
looked into multi-valued logic, specifically four-valued logic (something
is true, false, both, or neither).  The basis for this logic is in aisan
culture where the world is not seen the the European completely true or
completely false.

I didn't do much, but what happens to Russel's paradox in this case?  I
think it just falls into the both case, and life goes on without any
problems. If there is anyone out there versed in one of these logics,
could you expand on this?

-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
James Rothwell           |                  I drank WHAT!?!
rothwell@brahms.udel.edu |                        -Socrates                
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa