HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: usenet@adobe.com (USENET NEWS)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: selling tickets on rec.travel.air
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:58:38 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Originator: asanders@sparta

It would really help if people selling tickets would
make sure to put enough information in the subject header.
"Airline tickets for sale" is not enough! 

"For Sale: RT ticket S.F.--> Boston." is much better!

					-Alan
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: reb@Ingres.COM (Phydeaux)
Subject: Re: Flat Tire rule?
Reply-To: reb@Ingres.COM (Phydeaux)
Organization: E 4th St Home For The Overeducated Underemployed - Chicago Div.
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:05:42 GMT

In article <9210061134.aa26490@Bonnie.ics.uci.edu> davida@Bonnie.ICS.UCI.EDU (David Andersen) writes:
>
>We've all heard about (and used) the Flat Tire rule which says that
>if you're late for a flight, the airline will typically put you
>on the next available flight (standby, of course) to your destination.
>
>The question is:
>  -- Has anyone ever been *charged* for this?
>
>I missed my flight last month, and AA insisted that they charge me $25
>because _they_ wanted to change my routing.  I had no problem
>with the change in routing (it meant jet service instead of
>puddle-jumper), but I've never heard of a charge!  I told him
>to charge it and I'd appeal to AA.....any thoughts?


As  I noted in an earlier  posting, most airlines  will let you change
flights if you go standby on  the  earlier/later one.  I've never been
charged for this.  However,   nowadays  they charge  *anyone* $25   to
confirm a change.  If you told them you  wanted  to go standby on  the
later flight since you missed the earlier one  I doubt they would have
charged you.  When arguing with them that's the approach I would take,
you  were  willing to go standby and  *they* changed  your routing and
wouldn't let you get on unless you shelled out $25.
							reb
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: narayan@aravali.everest.tandem.com (Pankaj Narayan)
Subject: I need a coupon for air ticket
Reply-To: narayan@aravali.everest.tandem.com (Pankaj Narayan)
Organization: Tandem Computers Inc., Cupertino CA
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:49:09 GMT

i'd like to travel bay area->philadelphia and back,. but all fares
i checked are $500 or so. If anyone has a coupon that they are not
using, please let me know. I'd like to travel in october, with a 
saturday night stay etc.

i remember that continental had some coupons for $189, but am
not sure they'd be valid right now..........

please email. thanks.
pankaj

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pankaj Narayan			Email: narayan_pankaj@tandem.com
Tandem Computers
From: jerry@incc.com (Jerry Rocteur)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: Govenment subsidy: Was Re: Aircraft Age
Summary: credulous
Date: 30 Sep 92 21:40:16 GMT
Organization: InCC.com Perwez Belgium

In article <1a9tktINNfli@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, pab@po.CWRU.Edu (Pete Babic) writes:
> 
> In a previous article, brit@wagner.Physics.McGill.CA (Dave Britton) says:
> 
> >> I *hate* government aircraft
> >> subsidies (read: airbus, who is owned by various European Governments).
>[deleted .....] 
> 
> But the U.S. military buys a product, they don't give charity contributions
> to MD or Boeing, etc the way the europeans support Airbus. Also, a little
> off topic for this newsgroup, the fall of communism, the end of the cold war,
> and the general lifestyle improvements for people in eastern Europe are a
> direct result of the "weapons of destruction" being a defensive deterrent in
> holding off the communists until economic conditions took there toll.
 
 gullible a. easily persuaded or deceived
-- 
 __^__                                                              __^__
( ___ )------------------------------------------------------------( ___ )
 | / | Jerry Rocteur                       Email: jerry@InCC.COM    | \ |
 | / |             Independent Computer Consultants                 | \ |
 | / |--------------------------------------------------------------| \ |
 | / | This week's quote:                                           | \ |
 |___|  The concept is simply staggering! pointless but staggering! |___|
(_____)------------------------------------------------------------(_____)
   ^                                                                  ^
From: felicia@duke.edu (Felicia Lennon)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: WANTED: Arline ticket from Raleigh/Durham to San Juan,Puerto Rico
Date: 5 Oct 92 12:40:57 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.
Originator: felicia@genemap.mc.duke.edu


I need (2 if they are available ) airline tickets between 
Raleigh/Durham,NC and San Juan, Puerto Rico.

The preferred dates are departure on October 21th with a return on
the 25th.

Thanks in advance.
-----------------------

felicia@kevin.mc.duke.edu
             

-- 
**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=*
* felicia@genemap.mc.duke.edu*    " A RIGHT DELAYED IS A RIGHT DENIED."      =**=*
**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=      Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.          **=*
**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=**=*
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: bhat@cs.columbia.edu (Dinkar Bhat)
Subject: Saudi Air
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 00:06:10 GMT

I would appreciate gretaly if someone can give information about travelling
in Saudi Air. I am intending to travel by this airlines to India this Dec.
Any info is welcome.

Thanks.
Dinkar (bhat@cs.columbia.edu)
From: fmbutt@engage.sps.mot.com (Farooq M. Butt)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: Quantas and too much luggage
Date: 29 Sep 92 21:07:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: oakhill.1992Sep29.210738.14372
Organization: Motorola RISC Software, Austin, TX

The USA may have a 2 piece allowance but I have seen folks 
carrying what must have been two gigantic suitcases filled 
with bricks turned away at checkin (well... actually asked to 
pay some HUGE extra fee for excess baggage).  So beware, 
the 2 piece rule does apply but abuse it at your peril.


fmb

-- 
Standard High-Tech Disclaimer: NOTHING  in the above article has the slightest 
relationship to reality. If any reality correspondences are found, please 
notify me IMMEDIATELY. Any threats, abuse or stupidity of any kind is purely 
UNintentional. These are MY Opinions NOT my employer's.
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: wmorgan@stsci.edu (Windsor A. Morgan)
Subject: New Pittsburgh Airport
Originator: wmorgan@nemesis.stsci.edu
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 23:45:42 GMT

Has anybody gone through the new Pittsburgh airport (one of USAir's
hubs)?  What is it like?  Does it live up to USAir's hype?

-- 
'Verily, there be no leader as wise as the Vision!'
                         Windsor Morgan (wmorgan@stsci.edu OR NHT@PSUVM.BITNET)
                         Space Telescope Science Institute
                         Baltimore, MD   21218
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: hafer@apple.com (Rob Hafer)
Subject: Re: I need a coupon for air ticket
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 00:27:03 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Apple Computer
Followup-To: rec.travel.air

> I read in SF newspaper Travel column, that if you open an account
> at Coast Federal Savings Bank (supposedly located through out California)
> you can get Travel Certificates for travel on NW Airlines; roundtrip
> travel to the Northeast is supposed to be $278 roundtrip; I am sure
> there will be several restrictions.  Hope it will work out for you.

My understanding from reading the copy of that article is that is has some
pretty hefty balance requirements (open up a $10k CD account, etc).
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Aircraft Age
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
	<HROSE.92Sep28162927@rocza.eff.org>
	<1992Oct4.092139.29854@ohare.Chicago.COM>
	<KMEYER.92Oct5131131@solarium.aero.org>
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 03:12:53 GMT

Kraig> == Kraig R. Meyer <kmeyer@aero.org> 
kls>   == kls@ohare.Chicago.COM (Karl Swartz) said:

 kls>     727-51	  3 @ 27.5

 kls> The 727-251s are right around the average as are the DC-10s

 Kraig> This isn't supposed to be a list of all of Northwest's aircraft,
 Kraig> is it?  There must be a mistake in the "727" column.  Northwest
 Kraig> has >10 flights on 727's leaving Detroit between 7 and 9:30 a.m.

No, it wasn't an exhaustive list, just a note that there were a *lot* of
older (but smaller) airframes in their inventory.  As he said, the
727-251s, the only ones they're still flying (see my previous post on
this thread) are younger than the 727-51s (which they've retired
anyway).

(We have a newer JP than you do, Karl ;-)
--
Christopher K. Davis      |       NET.INSIGHTS INTO ARTISTIC CRITICISM:
<ckd@eff.org>   EFF #14   | ``[Y]ou don't cure bad art by locking it all up
System Administrator, EFF | in one museum, you cure it by throwing tomatoes
+1 617 864 0665  [CKD1]   | at bad artists.'' --Barry Shein <bzs@world.std.com>
From: plaxton@cs.utexas.edu (Greg Plaxton)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: TKT for Sale: Houston->DC->Houston 11.6 to 11.8
Date: 28 Sep 1992 22:27:00 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
Distribution: tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: grooge.cs.utexas.edu

Subject: TKT for Sale: Houston->DC->Houston 11.6 to 11.8
Ticket for $170 r/t (cost).  Great chance to be in DC the weekend
after Bush is booted out/Clinton is sent back to Arkansas.

Evan Reid
713 245 7385

P.S.: I am posting this for Evan.  Please do not send me e-mail.
Contact Evan by telephone.
From: julian@frey.lbl.gov (julian cortella)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Looking for bucket shops
Date: 1 Oct 1992 22:43:24 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley, CA USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.81

There is frequent talk about bucket shops, but in my limited
time reading this group, I haven't seen any addresses or
phone numbers.  

I am looking for a shop in San Francisco.  Anybody know of one?

-julian
From: autry@sgi.com (Larry Autry)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: Couriers???
Date: 30 Sep 1992 19:55:19 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, St. Louis, MO
NNTP-Posting-Host: sgistl.stlouis.sgi.com

In article <1992Sep29.172510.977@yvax.byu.edu> amy@yvax.byu.edu writes:
>I have heard that a person can be a "courier" for a company and get a
>substantial discount on international air fare.  From what I understand, the
>passenger agrees to carry a package for a company to a destination (thus giving
>up some of their own alloted luggage space for the package).  Does anyone know
>if companies really do this and how one would go about being a courier.  Thanks
>in advance :-) 
>
Refer to part 1/5 of the FAQ for more information.  If you missed the
posting, you can try to search through recently posted articles on your
news server since it wasn't posted very long ago.  

I will post it again soon because of the timing of the last posting.
--
Larry Autry
Silicon Graphics, St. Louis
autry@sgi.com
From: staggers@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Ken Staggers)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: United 727 Lands At Meigs
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:48:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Sep30.204815.27460
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.

sure, you've heard of OHare, and of Midway here in Chicago.  But the closest
airport to downtown Chicago is Meigs (sp?).  Its right on the lake.  Usually,
only private planes and jets land, since I think (can someone check) there
is only 5000 ft of runway (LaGuardia has 8000?).  But the Museum of Science
here in Chicago managed to get United to donate a 27 year old 727 to the 
museum.  So to get it close to the museum, they flew it from OHare to
Meigs (the newspaper said it was a 27 minute flight!).  They called it
a textbook landing, but the video I saw made it seem a little scary.  
The pilot basically plopped the thing on the runway (he came down very
tilted to one side though) and hit the breaks.  He has some space left at the
end.

Now the fun part begins.  They are going to tow it to a barge and let it sit
for a while on the lake.  Then in 1993, they plan to knock a wall down in
the museum and drive the plane into there.  AND THEN, they plan to suspend
it from the ceiling.  Should be a fun engineering job!

--Ken
From: harold@cs.uq.oz.au (Andrew Wood)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: El Al Disaster
Date: 7 Oct 92 03:38:28 GMT
Reply-To: harold@cs.uq.oz.au

In <10525@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> bakker@cs.uq.oz.au (Paultje Bakker) writes:

>I would be grateful for any further news. Which airlines still use
>747-200's?

QANTAS! I think they have a few. They have mostly upgraded to the 400's
but still fly a few 200's

A.
--
  __0    _-_|\      harold@cs.uq.oz.au is: Andrew Wood
 -\<,   /     * <-- Comp Sci Dept, U. of QLD, Brisbane 
0/  0   \_.-._/     
             v      "This is a job for 'The Australian'"    Delicatessen.
From: amy@yvax.byu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Couriers???
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:25:10 -0700
Organization: Brigham Young University

I have heard that a person can be a "courier" for a company and get a
substantial discount on international air fare.  From what I understand, the
passenger agrees to carry a package for a company to a destination (thus giving
up some of their own alloted luggage space for the package).  Does anyone know
if companies really do this and how one would go about being a courier.  Thanks
in advance :-) 

Amy Smith
amy@yvax.byu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: millerm@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Mikemoe)
Subject: Re: selling tickets on rec.travel.air
Reply-To: millerm@oakhill.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Semiconductor Products Sector
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:52:41 GMT

In article 1a7fh2INNhpm@agate.berkeley.edu, ruppen@lexis.qal.berkeley.edu (Not Obsessed) writes:
>
>
>Perhaps the posting of airline tickets for sale, particularly the OW tickets,
>wouldn't be so annoying if the posters of said articles would restrict
>an article's distribution to the local area nearest the ticket's originating
>airport? It makes no sense for someone in, for example, San Francisco to 
>have to read an article trying to sell a OW ticket from Atlanta to Chicago. It's
>a waste of time and the net's resources.
>
>Andy Ruppenstein (ruppen@qal.berkeley.edu)
>

Let's expand this to originating and destination airports. For those of
us who have family or significant others in other locales.


---
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael Miller   millerm@oakhill.sps.mot.com                 |
| (512) 891-8582   Motorola - Semiconductors  Austin, TX       |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
| We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we      |
| can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is  |
| what annoys me. - Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey               |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
From: davidcam@wam.umd.edu (David Gordon Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: SELLING 1-way ticket LAX=>DC for male
Date: 4 Oct 92 16:31:12 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

I have a 1-way ticket for a male traveling from LAX to Washington (BWI)
on Oct. 9th.  Price today is $100, but will drop fast as the day 
approaches.  E-mail or call David 818/796-8803.
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: ash@syacus.acus.oz.au (Ash Nallawalla)
Subject: Re: Quantas and too much luggage
Organization: Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Melbourne
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 02:01:01 GMT

ccd@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Carol C Denehy) writes:

>In article <1992Sep18.111500.2248@bernina.ethz.ch> bpohl@sam.math.ethz.ch (Bert Pohl) writes:
>>does any one have experience with quantas airlines if you have too
>>much luggage with you?
>>were going for one year to Australia and are allowed to take 20kg
>>per person which is probably too less.
>>Is Quantas very strict?
>>How are other airlines?

>And one time I had 3 suitcases and they just advised me to go to the gate 
>with the one extra and hand it in there. I did, no problem. The fee
>as of last year was supposedly $90 for the third bag. And for all

I didn't see the start of this thread but my understanding is that
on flights to and from the US the allowance is 2 suitcases rather than
the weight.  (Maybe there is an upper weight allowance but I have usually
exceeded the 20 kg per suitcase limit without being asked to pay for
excess.)  THe excess baggage rate is tied to something like 1 percent of 
the first-class fare per kg.

>Carol Denehy

Any relation to Brian Victor?
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: aap@cs.brown.edu (Andrea A. Pietracaprina)
Subject: Re: BA Frequent Flyer Partners
Organization: Brown Computer Science Dept.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 13:09:50 GMT

I'd like to add another piece of information:

Until recently, BA and American were partners and mileage on BA
could be used on the American FF. Unfortunately, this is not
true anymore. I just called BA and they said that their
partnership ended on March 31 92, which yet surprises me since
i joined the BA FF program in May and received a brochure
explaining in detail how to redeem miles on American Airlines !

I can't say that my experience with BA FF has been great, so far

-andrea
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: puerta@camis.Stanford.EDU (Angel Puerta)
Subject: Re: selling tickets on rec.travel.air
Organization: Stanford School of Medicine
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 19:46:04 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.053037.7278@ads.com> henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:
>usenet@adobe.com (USENET NEWS) wrote: 
>->It would really help if people selling tickets would
>->make sure to put enough information in the subject header.
>->"Airline tickets for sale" is not enough! 
>
>it would really help if people who were selling tickets would do so in
>a for-sale group!  

It would really help if self-annointed newsgroup presidents minded their own
business.


-- 
Angel Puerta
puerta@camis.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: bettina@eng.clemson.edu (bettina gassmann)
Subject: need cheap ticket seattle frankfurt
Reply-To: bettina@eng.clemson.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Clemson Univ.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 12:59:38 GMT

i need an insanly cheap ticket going from seattle to frankfurt on the 19, 20, 21or 22 of december. can someone give me some phonenumbers of travel agencies?
best offer sofar $ 799 w/o tax.

thanx bettina
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: Luggage (was Re: AIRLINE SCAM (Was "Quantas and too much luggage"))
From: graeme@hart.actrix.gen.nz (Graeme Hart)
Date: 30 Sep 92 10:14:10 GMT
 <1992Sep22.015526.20111@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> 
 <1992Sep27.212735.3541@news.acns.nwu.edu> <1992Sep27.225807.27194@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>

cjp8b@dayhoff.med.Virginia.EDU (Chris Penington @ University of Virginia) once wrote....
>In article <1992Sep27.212735.3541@news.acns.nwu.edu> staggers@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Ken Staggers) writes:
>
>>I was afraid I would get hit with the baggage charges as well.  So I decided
>>to try this trick, pay for first class!
>>
>>I had to go from Chicago to NYC a day before my NYC-Tokyo trip.  I had
... lots of stuff deleted ...
>
>I'm lead to wonder how heavy your bags were - it might have made some
>difference to the ticket agent. The only time I've ever flirted with
>exceeding the 20 kg limit I was on my way to the US from Australia on
>Air New Zealand. I was checked in by Qantas ground staff who initially
>told me I was 25 kg over the limit and would have to pay $$$$ in
>excess baggage charges. When I pointed out that my ticket was to the
>US, not New Zealand, that I had NO intention of stopping in New
>Zealand, and that I was within the limits for travel to the US, they
>backed off. 
>
>Object lessons from this and Ken's experience?
>

I thought the lesson shown here was KNOW THE RULES.  You were ticketed
for a flight to the US, leaving from Australia, therefore you're rules
were different than those that apply if you fly Australia to New
Zealand

>1. US airlines may be much more forgiving than airlines of other
>nationalities.
>
>2. You can get away with more if you fly first class.
>
>3. Ticketing agents may be much more rigorous at enforcing limits when
>they're acting on behalf of another airline.
>
>4. Being able to convince the ticketing agent you're a valuable
>customer is very worthwhile!
>
>>--Ken, back from Asia
>
>Welcome back,
>
>	Chris (heading for Australia in 4 days)
>
>-- 
>Chris Penington (cjp8b@virginia.edu)             .A---------.        My
>Biochemistry Dept., Box 440                     /o           `   Favourite
>UVa Health Sciences Ctr,                       (_,           7   Marsupial
>Charlottesville, Va 22908   (804)924-8210         \>~~~~~~z7

----
Graeme Hart                                     Telephone:  64 4 3829124  
graeme@hart.actrix.gen.nz                       Snail Mail: PO Box 11865    
                                                            Wellington       
                                                            New Zealand

Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: cjp8b@dayhoff.med.Virginia.EDU (Chris Penington)
Subject: Re: Luggage (was Re: AIRLINE SCAM (Was "Quantas and too much luggage"))
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 22:58:07 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.212735.3541@news.acns.nwu.edu> staggers@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Ken Staggers) writes:

>I was afraid I would get hit with the baggage charges as well.  So I decided
>to try this trick, pay for first class!
>
>I had to go from Chicago to NYC a day before my NYC-Tokyo trip.  I had
>NINE bags with me including the luggage cart.  I was doing a 1-way ticket,
>so it was either pay $265 (I think) for full fare coach or $380 for 1st.
>Basically I was told that there would be a 99% chance I would be charged for
>at least 3-4 of the bags by flying coach.  There would be a better chance
>of not being charged at all for flying first with all of that luggage.
>So I went first, and lo and behold, no charge.
>
>From NYC-Tokyo I had EIGHT bags.  No charge in first.  I had 5 bags
>from Tokyo-Beijing in coach.  No charge.  I bought lots of stuff in Hong Kong,
>so I had SIX bags in b-class from HK to Tokyo.  Thus from Tokyo-Honolulu
>I had NINE bags.  Aloha and American, both coach flights within Hawaii
>didnt really care.  My last flight from HNL-SFO-MSP-LGA, the Northwest
>agent did remind me that I was over the bag limit.  But I gave her a polite
>"I'm flying first class on an Asian international ticket...dont charge me
>if you want me to fly again" look, and she didnt charge me.

I'm lead to wonder how heavy your bags were - it might have made some
difference to the ticket agent. The only time I've ever flirted with
exceeding the 20 kg limit I was on my way to the US from Australia on
Air New Zealand. I was checked in by Qantas ground staff who initially
told me I was 25 kg over the limit and would have to pay $$$$ in
excess baggage charges. When I pointed out that my ticket was to the
US, not New Zealand, that I had NO intention of stopping in New
Zealand, and that I was within the limits for travel to the US, they
backed off. 

Object lessons from this and Ken's experience?

1. US airlines may be much more forgiving than airlines of other
nationalities.

2. You can get away with more if you fly first class.

3. Ticketing agents may be much more rigorous at enforcing limits when
they're acting on behalf of another airline.

4. Being able to convince the ticketing agent you're a valuable
customer is very worthwhile!

>--Ken, back from Asia

Welcome back,

	Chris (heading for Australia in 4 days)

-- 
Chris Penington (cjp8b@virginia.edu)             .A---------.        My
Biochemistry Dept., Box 440                     /o           `   Favourite
UVa Health Sciences Ctr,                       (_,           7   Marsupial
Charlottesville, Va 22908   (804)924-8210         \>~~~~~~z7
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air