HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Australian National University Library
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Approved-By:  Public-Access Computer Systems Forum <LIBPACS@UHUPVM1.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.pacs-l
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 11:57:31 CDT
From:         Tony Barry <tony@library.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Subject Headings for Gopher Virtual Library

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
In article <billy.713927567@sol.acs.unt.edu>,         Billy Barron - VAX/UNIX
 Systems Manager <billy@sol.acs.unt.edu> writes:
> Joel Cooper of Notre Dame and I are leading an effort to turn GopherSpace
> into a virtual library system.

I was starting to do that myself (gopher to info.anu.edu.au port 70) and ran
into the problems which this posting and subsequent responses refered to. So I
stopped until I had a better idea of which way to jump. At the moment I
favour a classified approach.

As Librarians our mind set is still gripped by the need to put
books in a linear sequence on a shelf and map a classification scheme
into that linear arrangement. Because it doesn't work we then
devise subject headings to give us random access to the books that
the classification scatters rather than bringing together.

The gopher however offers us a tree structue to pointers to information
with the ability to included multiple copies of the pointers in any
place that is relevent.  All classifications are flawed and by their nature
must be. With gopher however we can put in pointers in more
than one place and get arround these flaws. LC headings however do
not map as gracefully into a tree structure as does a classification.
The various levels of the menus would need to refer to alphabetical
ranges rather than concepts.

There is also the problem of specificity. Most classification and
LC headings are designed for collections of millions. Initially at
least we will be dealing with collections of thousands. Classifications
are much easier to truncate and expand later if needed whereas
heading systems are not.

Currently I would think it best to organise material in a classified
hierachy with no more than a screen of 'leaves' at each level and
subdivide when the number of items gets too large. Put multiple
entries in for items which may be 'about' more than one classification.

______________________________________________________________________
Tony Barry. Head, Centre for Scholarly Information Access and Networks

    Australian National University Library     | fone   +61 6 249 4632
GPO Box 4 Canberra City A.C.T. 2601, AUSTRALIA | phax   +61 6 249 4063
  tony@info.anu.edu.au, Tony_Barry@anu.edu.au  | telex  10717252
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Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:32:54 CDT
From:         Stewart Rowe <bg055@cleveland.Freenet.Edu>
Subject:      Re: Public Access Internet Guide

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

If you _have_ access to ftp and telnet, you don't need this list.

If you _don't_ have access to ftp and telnet, you can't get this list.

So please post the whole thing!
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Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 12:02:45 CDT
From:         JMONTAG@WITTENBG.BITNET
Subject:      Demco Electric Charging Machine

Please reply to the author, not PACS-L.  Thank you.

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
We're getting closer to automation, but our Demco electric charging machines
may not last that long.  We would like to buy one or two machines in working
order to tide us over.  Can you help out?  Please send particulars to:

Internet: JMontag@Wittenbg

John Montag
Wittenberg University
Springfield, OH 45501

513/327-7019
Bitnet:   Jmontag@Wittenbg
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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 09:37:54 CDT
From:         Public-Access Computer Systems Forum <LIBPACS@UHUPVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Gutenberg Statistics

FROM: AXPBBGS --UICVMC
 From: Bernie Sloan
 Subject: Gutenberg stats

 In the August 31 Project Gutenberg Newsletter, Michael Hart appears
 to be claiming to have distributed at least 2.8 billion e-texts. Under
 the header "Our Goal, To Give Away One Trillion Etexts By December 31,
 2001", he states: "We should be at about 2.8 billion with release of
 the following not counting pre-1991 releases".

 I'm curious about how he arrived at the 2.8 billion figure. That's
 a big number. If people requested an AVERAGE of 100,000 e-texts
 a day, it would take 76 years years to get to the 2.8 billion mark.
 Even if people requested an average of ONE MILLION e-texts a day,
 it would still take nearly EIGHT YEARS to get there.

 Just curious about the math used to get the 2.8 billion figure. As
 the August 12 article in the Chronicle of Higher Education notes
 "he cannot even estimate how many people have snatched copies of the
 dozens of documents that Project Gutenberg has made available so far".

 Bernie Sloan
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Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:44:23 CDT
From:         Rowan Hammond <rowan@tartarus.uwa.edu.au>

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Hi there!

I am writing this in vi - so please excuse any mistakes!

I would have posted this directly to Migell Acosta, but he/she did not
include his/her address!!

Hytelnet is available by anonymous ftp from

hydra.uwo.ca

in the directory "libsoft"

OR by anon ftp from

access.usask.ca

in the directory "pub/hytelnet"

There are mac versions at both sites

Happy hytelnetting - I do it all the time!

Rowan

rowan@tartarus.uwa.oz.au
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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:32:02 CDT
From:         Marcia.Deddens@UC.Edu
Subject:      RE: Casual Instructions

----------------------------Original message----------------------------

I want to place a strong second behind Rick Gates comments about the
importance of "learning how to learn."  As an early 1960's English
major, I'm often asked how I know so much about computers and
networks.  The answer is a never ending stream of questions and
constant admission of what I don't know, or more importantly, don't
understand.  No matter what the system is, I learn the most from
"casual instruction" and healthy exploration.  Yes, my exploration has
more than once resulted in a self-imposed disaster and the need for
some friendly computer folks to bail me out.  While my face is usually
red, those who help are very rarely hard on me unless I then repeat
the same ignorant mistake.

As libraries tackle technology, I believe, we need to encourage
"casual instruction" and building the self confidence to explore,
experiment, make errors, correct them, and "learn how to learn."
Library departments in which I have worked were often lined with
explicit and detailed manuals which received very little use.
Productive staff within those departments had a sense of the
departmental function and the systems in use and could figure out most
anything without the manuals.

"Casual instruction" must contain accurate information but I do
believe that it is an appropriate approach to "learning how to learn."
Thanks for the comments, Rick.
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Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 08:54:06 CDT
From:         Louis Cornelio <lcornel@eis.CalState.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Fully WAIS indexed speeches
X-cc:         Multiple recipients of list PACS-L
              <PACS-L%UHUPVM1.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Greetings!
  Would someone mind helping a rookie? What exactly is a WAIS protocol?
(Even though I can't use it, running a humble antique Apple...)
 Thanks!
................. Louis  lcornel@eis.calstate.edu
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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:29:13 CDT
From:         Dan Lester <ALILESTE@IDBSU.BITNET>
Subject:      Library Trends 40(4)

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Many of you may not regularly see _Library_Trends_, but may wish to examine
the issue cited above, received this week.  Each issue of LT is devoted to
a single topic, and this issue of over 200 pages is dedicated to
"Electronic Information for the Humanities", edited by Mark Stover.

Some of the articles include:

User Instruction Issues for Databases in the Humanities

Electronic Journals in the Humanities: A Survey and Critique

Religious Studies and Electronic Information: A Librarian's Perspective

Electronic Texts in English and American Literature

Humanists, Libraries, Electronic Publishing, and the Future.


There are many other articles as well; those mentioned above are just to
give you an indication of the breadth of coverage.

Those who want a personal copy can purchase one for $18.50, postpaid,
from U of Illinois Press, Champaign, IL  61820.

Disclaimer:  I have no connection with the journal, the editor of this
issue, U of I Press, etc.


dan

*****************************************************************************
* Dan Lester                          Bitnet:   alileste@idbsu              *
* Associate University Librarian      Internet: alileste@idbsu.idbsu.edu    *
* Boise State University                                                    *
* Boise, Idaho  83725                 BSU and I have a deal: I don't speak  *
* 208-385-1234                        for them and they don't speak for me. *
*****************************************************************************
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.pacs-l
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:30:38 CDT
From:         Public-Access Computer Systems Forum <LIBPACS@UHUPVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Currency Rates

2 Messages, 50 Lines
*-----
From:     elliot%nowalls.ucsd.edu@Sdsc.BITnet (Elliot Kanter)
Subject: Reply: Currency Rates
UCLA's online catalog, ORION, has up-to-date currency exchange rate
tables.  You can either telnet directly to Orion, or connect via
the University of Calif.'s MELVYL system.  An account is required, and
I don't know the costs, other than that they are fairly low.

Call ORION User services at 310-825-7557

Elliot Kanter
Univ. of Calif., San Diego
ekanter@ucsd.edu
*-----
From: Abbie.Basile@um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: currency rates on the Internet

In response to the question, listed below, about accessing currency
rates on the Internet:

The Economic Bulleting Board (EBB), which contains current trade and
economic data, is available through ULibrary, the University
of Michigan Library's Gopher system.  The EBB is divided into 19 separate
file areas and is updated daily. The MONETARY STATISTICS section contains
two relevant files on foreign exchange rates: FRB foreign exchange
rates and Monthly foreign exchange rates.

To access the EBB via ULibrary:

telnet to HERMES.MERIT.EDU

at the Which Host? prompt type UM-ULIBRARY

at the login prompt type  gopher

Choose Social Science Data from the Main Menu

Choose the Economic Bulletin Board from the menu

Choose Monetary Statistics (#11) from the menu

<<Hope this is helpful to you!>>

Abbie Basile
Online Search Services Coordinator
Hatcher Graduate Library
Univ. of Michigan
abbie.basile@um.cc.umich.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.pacs-l
Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 09:38:43 CDT
From:         Public-Access Computer Systems Forum <LIBPACS@UHUPVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Subject Access for Gopher

2 Messages, 44 Lines
*-----

From: Peter.D.Ward@um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Subject Access for Gopher

I would be happy to supply a copy of the LC subject heading
tape for use in this project. We normally sell a copy of the
data for about $700, but I would be pleased to provide a
copy at no cost for use in studying LC heading suitability.
This data is distributed by LC in MARC format, spanned
records. Would this format be acceptable?

Peter.D.Ward@um.cc.umich.edu
*-----

From: billy@sol.acs.unt.edu (Billy Barron - VAX/UNIX Systems Manager)
Subject: Re: Subject Access for Gopher

Charles Hildreth <hildreth@eagle.sangamon.edu> writes:
>I do not recall anyone speaking in favor of using LCSH for this purpose!
>This is both heartening and sad, as LCSH is our primary national subject
>access vocabulary.

To somewhat summarize my responses:  The PACS-L replies were very negative
on LCSH.  However, the private E-mail I got was positive on LCSH.  If anybody
has any idea as to why the response was this way, I would LOVE to know.  I
am leaning away from LCSH and LCC at the moment and towards Dewey or another
system after the responses, but will be giving it thought over the next few
weeks.

>The best suggestion made to those beginning work on this project was that
>they do a bit of reading. If they are still considering LCSH, from the vast
>body of literature on its shortcomings and limitations I would recommend:

Yes, we are doing some reading and I already had some of these books in my
grubby little hands.  :-)  Thanks for the bibliography as I will look for
the other books.

Thanks to all who replied,

Billy Barron, VAX/UNIX Systems Manager, University of North Texas
"More Power"
billy@unt.edu, billy@untvax.bitnet, THENET: NTVAX::BILLY
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Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 12:05:15 CDT
From:         Gleason Sackman <sackman@plains.nodak.edu>
Subject:      Accessing ERIC (fwd)

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
From: Mel Roseman <mrosema@SOL.CALSTATE.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list LM_NET <LM_NET@suvm.bitnet>
Subject: Accessing ERIC

        A new source of the ERIC database is now available  via
telnet at the Colorado Alliance of Research Libraries (CARL)  Here are
instructions: (NO PASSWORD IS REQUIRIED)
*============================
telnet> (open) PAC.CARL.ORG    (You can use either upper or lower case)
telnet> (open)  192.54.8.128
LOGON:  Terminal: 5 for VT100
LOGOFF: type //EXIT  or telnet escape key (tilde ~)

 ***    Boolean searching and the full ERIC database    ***
*=========================================================
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gleason Sackman                           BBS:       sackman@sendit.nodak.edu
Coordinator                               Internet:  sackman@plains.nodak.edu
SENDIT - NoDak's K-12 Telcom Network      Bitnet:    sackman@plains.bitnet
BOX 5164,  NDSU Computer Center           Voice: (701)237-8109
Fargo, ND  58105                          Fax:   (701)237-8541
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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 09:45:04 CDT
From:         Steve Cisler <sac@apple.com>
Subject: Re: Reporting on the LITA National Conference

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Enough people seem to find the reports I have posted on PACS-L
to be useful, so I will continue doing them. However, I have
tried to limit my reports to conferences where librarians are
in the minority or not present at all.  I have not reported,
recently anyway, on ones where many PACS-L readers might be.

However, I think it would be great if the reporters copied
PACS-L when they sent their material to Walt Crawford, or
if someone would post short summaries of their favorite
sessions. There are thousands on this list who don't get
to attend many, if any, meetings.  10 years ago my library
would not have footed the bill for my attending the annual
state conference, let alone something like ALA or LITA.

I'd like to encourage people to share their notes, and you
don't have to be as verbose as I am.  For instance, there was
a meeting in Ann Arbor on gopher, a phenomenon that has
really spread quickly on the Net. I wish the librarians who
attended would let us know what happened.  There are a lot
of regional conferences that might have interesting sessions to
share.

If you have to do a trip report for your boss or colleagues,
make it serve two purposes and do a version for this mailing list.
I know from email responses that the report travel quickly and
far outside the realm of library-land.

Steve Cisler
Apple Library
10381 Bandley Dr. MS: 8C
Cupertino, CA 95014
sac@apple.com
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Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:23:03 CDT
From:         Terry Dawson <terry@edsi.plexus.COM>
Subject:      Re: Interactive Navigation
              21, 92 8:18 am

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Whatever happened to this workshop?  I was on vacation so I thought I'd
be behind, but do not seem to have received any of the materials.  I saw
the note that 800 people had signed up, but nothing since then.

Thanks.
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Organization: Southern Methodist University
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Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 11:12:14 CDT
From:         Will Stuivenga <VSGA1001@SMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Subject Headings for Gopher Virtual Library
              28 Aug 1992 14:14:37 CDT from <liboff27@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
On Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:14:37 CDT William Oldfield said:
>
>Someone mentioned using the Library of Congress classification system as
>the organizing principle.  Using classification at least solves the
>problem of volatile terminology.  But because the LC classification is
>additive and grows in any direction as new subjects arise I would argue
>against it.  Dewey on the other hand is logical approach to the
>organization of knowledge.  As subject areas changes it would also be a
>relatively simple matter for a machine to chomp through a database and map
>the old numbers to the new organization.  But whether subject headings or

American librarians have been trained to think LC or Dewey, and that's it.
In actuality, there are superior classification systems.  This would be
an excellent opportunity to look outside the extremely narrow focus of
classification systems used in this country to choose a really good one.
Or one that is well suited to the needs of the Gopher project.  I would
certainly recommend looking at the Universal Decimal Classification (UDC)
a scheme widely used in Europe and elsewhere, and
which was developed out of Dewey originally, perhaps the scheme developed
by Bliss, and the modern versions (if they exist) of the principles of
faceted classification developed by Ranganathan and others.

Before making a decision of this type, one should do some reading, and try
to get up to date in modern classification theory and practice; what are
considered the "best" classification systems for automated retrieval
systems?  Those I've mentioned may not be the top contenders, as my
limited knowledge is more historical than contemporary.

I might be able to provide some cites for starting points, if desired.

Will Stuivenga <VSGA1001@SMUVM1> or <VSGA1001@VM.CIS.SMU.EDU>
Database Services Reference Librarian, Fondren Library
Southern Methodist University, Dallas, TX  75275
(214) 692-3666  fax (214) 360-0609
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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 09:59:50 CDT
From:         Public-Access Computer Systems Forum <LIBPACS@UHUPVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Chronicle Article

FROM: AXPBBGS --UICVMC
 From: Bernie Sloan
 Subject: Chronicle article

 Just wanted to call attention to an article in the current issue
 (9/2/92, pages A19-A21) of the Chronicle of Higher Education. The
 title is "Many Campuses Start Building Tomorrow's Electronic Li-
 brary".

 There's an interesting statement in the article, especially in light
 of the recent reactions to Jennings' "Regrowing" article. As Calvin
 Boyer noted in his comments on Jennings' PACS Review article, "Ms.
 Jennings leaves no doubt about the pivotal role of the library
 director in these efforts". Contrast this with the following thought
 from the Chronicle article, attributed to William Arms (vice presi-
 dent for academic services at Carnegie Mellon): "Most important,
 he (Arms) says, distributed computing eliminates the need for a
 central library administration and makes management more flexible".
 (This is a Chronicle paraphrase of what he said, not a direct quote
 of something Arms said).

 Makes you wonder....will library administrators be playing a
 "pivotal role", or will "the need for a central library administration"
 be eliminated? Or will we have a little of both?

 Bernie Sloan
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Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 12:01:20 CDT
From:         Marc Sobel <0005109588@mcimail.com>
Subject:      Public Library use of Internet

Please reply to the author, not PACS-L.  Thanks, Jill

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I am a member of the Library Board for the Keller Public
library in Keller Texas.  We are beginning to investigate providing
access to the Internet to our patrons in the future.  Keller is
a growing town of 14,000 located within the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex.

Our view of a library is that it provides access to information.
Given the amount of information available on the Internet, access to it is
a logical candidate for a public library.

I am looking for advice on, experience with, or opinions on providing such
a service.  I am interested in any policies developed.

For example, one model is a public access "bulletin board".  Obvious
questions include (1) developing "navigational" skills through the Internet
on the library staff or in the patron population,
(2) control or lack of control over the wide breadth of opinion, interests,
and material on the Internet (I am including USENET and other networks
linked to the Internet), (3) local or remote access (at the library or from
home to an access facility supported by the library) (4) charging or funding
the service (5) technical support

Please reply to either me via E-mail, to Lisa Eason, Director Keller Library
640 Johnson Rd, Keller Tx, 76248, or to the LISTSERVER if you feel it
useful for general discussion.  I will accumulate all responses and make
them available if there is sufficient interests.
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