From: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steel Rat)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Re: SRUN: Silenced weapons
Date: 17 Apr 92 00:09:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: splinter.RATINOX.92Apr16200958
	<RATINOX.92Apr15220612@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu>
	<1992Apr16.142310@kazoo.ssd.loral.com>
Reply-To: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
In-reply-to: brunner@kazoo.ssd.loral.com's message of 16 Apr 92 21:23:10 GMT
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>>>>> On 16 Apr 92 21:23:10 GMT, brunner@kazoo.ssd.loral.com (Brian Brunner) said:
[lots of citations between me and ``brunner.'' pardon my reformatting]

ratinox> For best effect, and this time around Brian will agree with me,
ratinox> you need to use special loads that give the projectile a velocity
ratinox> of less than 1100 feet per second, and a sound suppressor to bleed
ratinox> off the expanding gasses from the burning propellant.

brunner> Err... just to quibble because my ego needs the feed... am I now
brunner> agreeing with you or are you agreeing with me?

Ummm... yes. :-)

ratinox> Another method is used in the Heckler & Kock MP5 SD (for
ratinox> scholldamper) which has a series of tiny holes drilled into the
ratinox> barrel which bleed off the propellant gasses, slowing the standard
ratinox> NATO 9mm rounds down to about 935 feet per second. An extension
ratinox> tube is also part of the MP5 SD system (it's removable to make
ratinox> cleaning easier). The drawback to this method of slowing the slug
ratinox> down is that it also reduces the damage potential -- subsonic
ratinox> rounds do better than slowed down normal ones.

brunner> Just to quibble because I love to...

brunner> So the bullet comes out slower, and quieter, but not because the
brunner> sound-damper slowed it... because the holes bled the gases and
brunner> full accelleration never occurred.

Correct.

brunner> Furthermore, ANY gun could be drilled for this effect, though I
brunner> envision that a chamber wrapping around the barrel into which
brunner> these gasses expand after leaving the barrel would be necessary
brunner> for some weapons... otherwise either the gas comes out the holes
brunner> supersonic (NOISE) or not enough gas is bled off and the
brunner> projectile is still supersonic (NOISE).

Ummm... I don't think so. The MP5 SD is designed this way deliberately, and
the wrappings are integral to the whole weapon -- they may not be removed.
I don't think you could use this trick without having to custom tool a new
barrel, fit the wrappings, and a whole bunch of other work.

The scholldamper is H&K's attempt at a quieter weapon that can use standard
NATO ammunition. Subsonic 9mm ammo is still more effective than the SD.

brunner> Now if somebody could invent a silencer for children that was
brunner> street legal...

I thought they were called ``cars.'' :-) :-) :-)

--Rat
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