HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.international
Reply-To: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 17:12:39 GMT

>comp.i18n?
>
>We really need a comp.design hierarchy for internationalization, component
>design, interoperability issues, API philosophies, etc...
>
>comp.design.i18n?

Comp.design would not be the most suitable name for the topic area I
had in mind.  This because much of the discussion is on how to make
existing, ie. already designed systems work with the ISO character
set, in the local environment etc.

//Jyrki
From: plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joe Six-pack)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.sf.babylon5
Date: 2 Sep 1992 20:57:52 GMT
Organization: Brown University Planetary Geology
NNTP-Posting-Host: pilsner.geo.brown.edu

In article <1992Sep2.172953.10374@unlinfo.unl.edu> gberigan@cse.unl.edu (Life...) writes:
>hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
>>    Personally, I have no problem with there being an alt.tv.* group for
>>this hsow, but I still think that we need to see what kind of traffic
>>its going to get in rec.arts.sf.tv before hand.

><blink> <blink>  Isn't that a bit backwards?

   Turn yer blinker off; whaddaya, from Ro Disland?

>Again, I think we should wait until we have an actual show to discuss
>before creating a group for it.

   Mr Hades is merely pointing out that an appropriate newsgroup,
rec.arts.sf.tv, already exists, and suggests that it be used for
discussion of Babylon 5.  If discussion blossoms to the point that
a separate newsgroup is warranted, creation of a new group could
be discussed at that time.  I concur.
--
Joel Plutchak, Research Programmer/Analyst
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: horeff@cirrus.com (Steve Horeff)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.music.makers.* groups
Keywords: music
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 18:33:29 GMT

In <1992Sep1.221432.11665@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> wes@ice.stx.com (John 
Shepherd) writes:

>I'd like to express support of the proposals for instrument specific 
>groups. Just a few opinions:

>  I specifically support the formation of rec.musicians.percussion (or 
>rec.music.makers.percussion if you insist). The mailing list is quite 
>active and, as a subscriber, I'm  receiving way too much mail. One of 
>the current threads is about this very proposal, and although I don't 
>believe anyone's taken a poll yet, I think the majority favor the proposal 
>and are waiting for the call for votes.

I would also like to express my support for a percussion/drum newsgroup.  I am 
also on the drum mailing list and I get at least 20 new mail articles a day!  
The volume alone from the drum mailgroup warrants its own newgroup.  I'm sure 
the other people in the drum mailgroup would agree.  Let me/us know how and 
when to vote for this.

Steve Horeff (horeff@cirrus.com)
From: andre@avalanche.Canada.Sun.Com (Andre Giroux - SSS Sun Montreal)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: rec.bicycle.mtb
Date: 2 Sep 92 14:17:15 GMT
Reply-To: andre@avalanche.Canada.Sun.Com
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.


what is going on with rec.bicycle.mtb  !!!!!

any split/news/denials ??
pls update
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I know a lot of people who used to ski, I don't know anyone who used to
 snowboard"

 - from K2 Gyrator add

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andre Giroux , Software support specialist , SUN Microsystems
andre.giroux@canada.sun.com
From: fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.games.abstract
Date: 3 Sep 1992 15:44:12 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


eychaner@suncub.bbso.caltech.edu says:

>>Creating a new group will reduce confusion for readers, and result in
>>a better hit rate for both groups.  Those who are interested in both
>>can subscribe to both.  What is the problem with this?
>
>The problem is defining each group, and having a good, descriptive name for
>the new group.  What do you really want the new group to cover?  Do you want

I agree here -- finding the proper name for the proposed 
 group is absolutely essential to this debate.  From the
 looks of it, r.g.b is mainly used to discuss "wargames/
 gamer games/etc", and everyone here knows what they are,
 but no one can come up with a well-descriptive non-
 derogatory word for them.  Meanwhile, some other people
 want a place to discuss "strategic like shogi/pure skill",
 but neither "strategic" nor "abstract" is quite right.

Calling all names, please.

>Monopoly there (a not very abstract board game)?  Yahtzee, or Boggle (rather
>abstract non-board games)?  Sorry! (rather abstract board game)?  And Chaos

Please, stop talking about family games.  Does anyone
 really discuss them?  Does anyone want to?  

>every gaming subject.  If you really don't like the gamer traffic here, you
>can always take your discussions to rec.games.misc!

Last time I looked, r.g.misc was filled with computer
 games like Ultima + Stealth Fighter, and lots more
 volume of posts than r.g.b.  Has this changed?
-- 
Francis A. Uy			now a Bawlmorean, hon.
Program Director, WUMD		ISO part time job to pay the rent.
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.aviation,sci.aeronautics,sci.military,rec.travel.air,rec.models.rc
From: foulser@homebrew.asd.sgi.com (David Foulser)
Subject: Re: Straw Poll on Gnuplot newsgroup name
Reply-To: foulser@homebrew.asd.sgi.com (David Foulser)
Organization: sgi
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 17:49:06 GMT

A minor correction on contents of comp.graphics.explorer:

| These are the comp.apps and comp.graphics branches of the USENET hierarchy:
| -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| comp.apps.spreadsheets	Spreadsheets on various platforms.
| comp.graphics		Computer graphics, art, animation, image processing.
| comp.graphics.avs	The Application Visualization System.
| comp.graphics.explorer	The Explorer Modular Visualisation Environment (MVE).

comp.graphics.explorer	IRIS Explorer.

| comp.graphics.research	Highly technical computer graphics discussion. (Moderate
| comp.graphics.visualization	Info on scientific visualization.
| -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
David Foulser					foulser@sgi.com
From: serling@visual.spk.wa.us (Brock Serling)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: RFD: misc.legal.family moderated
Date: 29 Aug 92 21:56:15 GMT
Organization: Visual Market Public Access Usenet Site

I think that this is a good idea. Half of the marriages today
end up as divorces and so lots of people have to get involved
in divorce. There should be many net people who could get a lot
of use out of this group.

In the alt groups are alt.dads-rights and child-support and I
have read and posted in there but to many of the posts are only
people that are mad and don't like the way divorce is. We need
to have a group that will tell people about divorce and laws
that we have now and learn from each other about it.

Brock S
From: woof@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Steve Wolf)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:51:26 GMT
Subject: Re: CFV: rec.aviation reorganization
Organization: HP Fort Collins, CO
Newsgroups: news.groups

It's my feeling that *.piloting and *.misc are redundant.
rec.aviation.piloting's charter is "Information pertinent to pilots of
general aviation aircraft which would not fall into one of the other
non-misc rec.aviation groups."

This should actually be the charter of "rec.aviation.misc", who's
charter is currently "... relatively little traffic here, but net
convention is to have a "catch-all" .misc group for things which might
have been missed."

Thus, my minor tweak would be to nix "rec.aviation.piloting" in favor of
"rec.aviation.misc".  Then we won't have to continually explain to new
users that our little corner of the net goes against "net convention".

Other than that, it looks great!  Good job, people!
--
Steve Wolf				PHONE: (303) 229-2088
Hewlett-Packard				UUCP:  hplabs!fc.hp.com!woof
Fort Collins, CO			ARPA:  woof@fc.hp.com
From: hooverb@h.cs.wvu.wvnet.edu (Bruce Hoover,Armstrong)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.sf.babylon5
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:45:04 GMT
Originator: hooverb@a.cs.wvu.wvnet.edu

From article <Btp8HH.L6r@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, by nick@sunburn.waterloo.edu (Nick Fitzpatrick):
> In article <1992Aug28.140420.10166@news.iastate.edu> techy@iastate.edu (Troy A Rutter) writes:
>>This is a request for discussion on the creation of a new newgroup,
>>rec.arts.sf.babylon5.

> Good lord, there are enough posts right now in rec.arts.startrek.current on
> B5 for it to justify it's own newsgroup right now!
 

Agreed. I will vote for it.


> But, why not rec.arts.babylon5, as this would match the heirarchy 
> presently used by two other SF shows (rec.arts.drwho, and rec.arts.startrek.*)

This would seem to be a good idea to me too. (Just don't stir up the fun
from last summer about the .sf hierarchy 8-)

Bruce Hoover
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.games.strategic - how about perfect-info
From: a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (Arthur Rubin)
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:42:16 GMT
 <1992Aug25.082405.25272@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> <a_rubin.714754810@dn66> <1992Aug25.182038.27357@news2.cis.umn.edu>
Keywords: checkers, shogi, othello, hex, etc.

In <1992Aug25.182038.27357@news2.cis.umn.edu> thornley@nano.cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley) writes:

>In article <a_rubin.714754810@dn66> a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (Arthur Rubin) writes:
>>In <1992Aug25.082405.25272@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> tonyp@ucthpx.uct.ac.za (Tony Putman) writes:
>>
>>
>>>[Suggests that the "strategy" games listed are games of perfect information
>>> and no chance elements, and recommends the name rec.games.perfect-info.]
>>
>>Now that sounds like a definable difference....probably not one the
>>original proponents would like, but definable.  (BTW, the usual
>>definition of "games of perfect information" DOES allow chance moves, as
>>long as they are made in sequence and all players are informed in the
>>result (Monopoly, Parchesi (sp?), etc.))  Dominoes, however, does not meet
>>the definition.  (Nor is it a "board" game, precisely.)

>By that definition, a lot of wargames are "games of perfect information"
>- they have no hidden information, although they can depend heavily on
>chance events.  Therefore, if this is the generally accepted meaning (I'm
>not going to claim a meaning is generally accepted after all the folks who
>seem to have missed the fact that "strategy" was originally a military
>term, and is still strongly in use that way), it won't work.

Isn't the initial setup in some wargames face down?  That would be sufficient
to make it not a game of perfect information.  Simultaneous moves
(sizors (sp!), paper, stone), are also not games of perfect information. 
I was just agreeing that it was a definition, not that it was the desired
definition.
--
Arthur L. Rubin: a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (work) Beckman Instruments/Brea
216-5888@mcimail.com 70707.453@compuserve.com arthur@pnet01.cts.com (personal)
My opinions are my own, and do not represent those of my employer.
My interaction with our news system is unstable; if you want to be sure I see a post, mail it.
From: YSAR1111@VM1.YorkU.CA (Rick Broadhead)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: MISC.DISASTER.*  NEWSGROUPS
Date: 1 Sep 1992 23:52:46 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


I am surprised that Usenet, a powerful and international medium of
communication, has not been more widely used to assist in the dissemination
of information during crisis situations and calamities.  For example, I am
sure there would be great support for newsgroups such as misc.disaster.reports
and/or misc.disaster.coordination, which could be used:

(a) by anxious friends and relatives to find out about friends
    and family in disaster areas
(b) to disseminate information on relief efforts
(c) to provide addresses of those agencies accepting donations
(d) to report on the situation in affected areas

MISC.DISASTER.* groups would act as a central clearinghouse for information
of this sort when a natural disaster strikes, anywhere in the world.

I would like to clarify that I agree that it would not be practical nor
feasible to use Usenet as a coordinating mechanism for disaster relief
per se.  However, based on what I have seen in other newsgroups (i.e. people
giving out addresses where donations can be sent, people asking about
such-and-such an area), it would be helpful to establish a
clearinghouse for this type of information.

When the Los Angeles riots were raging, one person with a California e-mail
address reported on Telecom Digest that he had received a message from a
person completely unknown to him, who was desperate for news of family in the
Los Angeles area.  With respect to Hurricane Andrew, I saw some requests for
news in soc.culture.caribbean, and several articles in Telecom Digest.

It is not my intention to get the Red Cross and other international relief
agencies involved, since (a) most aren't connected, and (b) in a crisis
situation, Usenet is of little value to them.  It is my hope in creating
these groups that they be used in times of natural disaster to exchange
information relevant to the affected areas.  People helping each other out.

This cause cannot be served by alt.* newsgroups, which would be
created as they are needed.  Current technology does not allow us to
predict natural disasters far enough in advance so that a Usenet group can
be mobilized and carried worldwide before a hurricane, earthquake etc. hits.
A group such as disaster.reports has to exist and be ready-for-use for it
to be effective.

Are there any folks out there who have experience in creating a new
newsgroup, and are willing to moderate a discussion and run a vote for the
creation of  misc.disaster.*  newsgroups?

Does anyone think this is a good idea?

I don't have the time to get fully involved at this stage because of other
demands on my time, but I am hoping that someone is willing to take this
idea and work with it.


----
Rick Broadhead                        ysar1111@VM1.YorkU.CA    (Internet)
Faculty of Administrative Studies     ysar1111@yorkvm1         (Bitnet)
York University                    ...!bitnet!yorkvm1!ysar1111 (UUCP)
Toronto, CANADA
From: jlewis@ogicse.ogi.edu (Jeff Lewis)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.music.makers.* groups
Date: 2 Sep 92 23:30:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.42319
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute

OK - here's a brief list of the schemes mentioned so far (plus a couple
variations) of how to name the instrument/musician specific newsgroups.
I'm concentrating on the overall scheme, not the specifics like what
to call the group for bass guitar, so that we can get infrastructure
discussions out of the way first, and get moving on the non-controversial
instrument specific groups.  Note that the genre specific groups aren't
very well hashed out yet, but the idea seems to have some support.

A:  Create rec.musicians.misc for misc musician discussion
    Create rec.musicians.{rock,jazz,classical} for genre specific
      musician discussion
    Create rec.musicians.{guitar,percussion,keyboards,etc}
    Create rec.musicians.misc-instruments
    Create rec.musicians.marketplace

Variations on a theme:
B:  rec.musicians.misc
    rec.musicians.{rock,jazz,classical}
    rec.musicians.instruments.{guitar,percussion,keyboards,etc}
    rec.musicians.instruments.misc
    rec.musicians.marketplace

Variations on a theme:
C:  rec.music.makers
    rec.music.makers.{rock,jazz,classical}
    rec.music.instruments.{guitar,percussion,keyboards,etc}
    rec.music.instruments.misc
    rec.music.instruments.marketplace

As per current RFD:
D:  Use rec.music.makers for misc discussion
    Overload rec.music.{classical,bluenote,etc} for genre specific
      musician discussion
    Create rec.music.makers.{guitar,percussion,keyboards,etc}
    Overload rec.music.marketplace for instruments as well
      (or create rec.music.makers.marketplace)

Minimal change:
E:  Same as D, but create rec.music.{guitar,percussion,keyboards,etc}
      instead.

BTW, I use `overload' in the technical sense - I don't mean to imply that
the overloading is necessarily a `bad thing'.

Feedback?

--Jeff
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Christoph Weber-Fahr [KIT])
Subject: Re: RFD: Removal of Unused Newsgroups
Organization: University of Kaiserslautern, Germany
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:31:17 GMT

gberigan@cse.unl.edu (Life...) writes:

>How about this:

>       2/3 (67%) of voters must vote YES/RM to kill the group, else kept
>       
>       100 votes of NO/KEEP will save the group, regardless of 2/3 above

>That makes it reasonably difficult, and it does bear some resemblance to
>the current method of creating groups.

But it can be quite annoying to have frequent campaigning for an existing 
group. Imagine Joe Jerk putting out a CfR for a group he doesn't like
as frequent as he is allowed (say, every 6 months). Now every 6 months you 
have to go to news.groups, write articles to defend your group, campaign
for supporters etc.

I think a group with reasonable traffic justifies itself. So a kind of 
traffic quota is a sine quoa non for a usefull CfR procedure.

Regards

Christoph Weber-Fahr

-- 
  Christoph Weber-Fahr                  |  E-Mail:  weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de 
  Universitaet Kaiserslautern,  KIT     |  S-Mail:  Postfach 3049
  Tel. 0631/205-3391                    |           D-6750 Kaiserslautern
--------------------------  My personal opinion only    ---------------------
From: neilb@scs.leeds.ac.uk (Neil Bowers)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.games.abstract (Re: rec.games.strategic controversy)
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:05:00 GMT
Organization: The University of Leeds, School of Computer Studies

quirk@pioneer.unm.edu (Gym Z. Quirk) writes:
>neilb@scs.leeds.ac.uk (Neil Bowers) writes:
>>Why are you so determined to keep everyone in rec.games.board?
>>There are a sizable number of usenetters who have expressed a desire
>>for a group such as rec.games.abstract, since they have no interest
>>in wargames and other non-abstract games which get coverage in r.g.b.
>
>Sizable number?  I've seen 3 or 4 people max.

In one of my earliest posts I asked people to email me if they were
interested, rather than conduct a poll on usenet.  Subsequently Darse
also suggested that people email me.  They have done.  In enough numbers
to convince me that the vote will go through.

I disagree with your "3 or 4 people max" as well though :-)


>Remember.  To successfully create a newsgroup you need *at least* 100
>more yea than nay, and a 2/3 majority to boot.

Thanks for pointing this out to me.

-neilb
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: spm2d@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Steven Miale)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.abstract
Keywords: perfect-information deterministic strategic no-dice
Organization: University of Virginia Computer Science Department
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 00:22:18 GMT

Wondeful idea; this is one person who would vote yes.

Steve

-- 
Steven Miale - spm2d@virginia.edu   | The problem with sweeping
Undergraduate Researcher            | generalizations is that they
Department of Computer Science      | are all wrong.
University of Virginia              |
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: banks@neptune.iex.com (Nathan Banks)
Subject: RFD: comp.sys.stratus
Originator: banks@neptune.iex.com
Keywords: stratus FTX vos fault-tolerance
Organization: iex
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:36:44 GMT


I have been subscribed to the  Info-Stratus mailing list for almost a year now
and find the information garnered from such a collaborative effort to be quite 
useful. I have been acting as "disseminator" of such information to my
colleagues. It would be very convenient if this mailing list was converted to
a newsgroup such that everyone in my company involved with Stratus products
could eyeball the information. I am also hoping that the newsgroup format
might encourage more "FTX" (Stratus Uni*) discussion.

I know of at least six other companies in my region which use Stratus gear and
I encourage representatives from my neighbors to participate in this 
discussion:

	o DSC Communications, 
	o Ericsson, 
	o NEC America, 
	o Alliance Technologies,
	o MCI and
	o Ameritech


-- 
 /| |\  Nathan Banks
/ | | \ IEX Corporation                 Voice: 214.612.2600   
\ | | / 1400 Preston Road, Suite 350    Fax: 214.964.2666     
 \| |/  Plano, Texas 75093              Email: {uunet,convex,att}!iex!banks
-- 
 /| |\  Nathan Banks
/ | | \ IEX Corporation                 Voice: 214.612.2600   
\ | | / 1400 Preston Road, Suite 350    Fax: 214.964.2666     
 \| |/  Plano, Texas 75093              Email: {uunet,convex,att}!iex!banks
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: at278@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Andy Miller)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.sys.stratus
Reply-To: at278@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Andy Miller)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 17:46:32 GMT


In a previous article, jimf@shared.com (Jim Franklin) says:

>I would like to say that I am in favor of the idea of creating the
>news group "comp.sys.stratus".  When I say "Stratus", I am including
>not only all Stratus systems but also IBM System/88 and Olivetti
>CPS-32 systems.
>

[....]

>The current mailing list was a good starting point for Stratus
>oriented discussions.  The mailing list audience is currently limited
>to the people that have subscribed to the list.  The non-subscribers
>are excluded, although not intentionally.  I feel that more people
>might find the news group than would find the current mailing list.


I agree.

The mailing list was a good place to start, but there seems to be enough
daily traffic to justify starting a newsgroup.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Miller                                                  InterBold
at278@cleveland.Freenet.Edu                                PO Box 3091
#include <standard.disclaimer>                     N. Canton, OH 44720
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Subject: Re: RFD: Removal of Unused Newsgroups
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:52:20 GMT

In article <BtyEpu.2CM@uunet.uu.net>, aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh Friedman) writes:
>
>		Following the normal Request for Discussion (RFD)
>	procedure a call to vote on a CFR can be made.  The vote will proceed
>	in the normal voting procedure.  The only difference is that only a
>	2/3 majority is needed for the CFR to pass not the normal 2/3 and
>	100 more yes then no votes (see note 1 for reasons for this).

I think this is the wrong way to decide whether a group should be removed or
not.  If enough people want the group, then it should be allowed to remain,
regardless of the ratio of those who don't want it to remain.  The idea is to
remove *dead* groups, not *unpopular* groups.

>		2) Conditional CFR -- Basically voting on whether or not the
>		newsgroup should be removed if certain traffic requirements are
>		not met after a specfied time period.

It'd be trivial for a single user to keep a group alive indefinitely by posting
at the required message or byte rate.  This would be useless.

Once upon a time, I proposed a method for removing dead groups.  A challenge
(call it a Call for Votes if you must) would be posted to the group.  If
insufficient positive responses aren't received, delete the group.  (Details
similar to creation rules omitted for clarity).

I don't read this group, and won't start just so I can follow this thread. 
E-mail me if you really want to flame me or ask my opinion.

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)	   For every Bill Joy there is a Kirk McKusick.
Martin Marietta Energy Systems     For every Bill Gates there is a Richard
News Admin/Workstation Support     Stallman.                     --Paul Graham
Newsgroups: news.groups