HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: robp@landru.network.com (Rob Peglar)
Subject: Re: Question about blocking
Reply-To: robp@landru.network.com
Organization: Network Systems Corporation 
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 23:16:48 GMT

In article 14686@ee.gatech.edu, wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu (Peter Wung) writes:
>In article 92Dec10111954@bass.bu.edu, soph@bass.bu.edu (sophia hwang) writes:
>>|about active blocking, isn't there a ruling that you can not pass (block)
>>|over the plane of the net? moving hands to cover the block is standard, but
>>|don't think you can break the plane...anyone else???
>>|
>>|soph
>
>
>You can't interfere with an attempted set, but as far as blocking is 
>concerned I think you can reach as far into the opponent's court as 
>you are able to get the block.  I have seen guys get their hands pretty 
>deep into the opponent's court for a block, when you hear people talk about 
>penetrating, this is what they are doing.
>
>Any comments Rob?

OK, sure, as long as you asked  :-)

Blocking is one of the more complex actions described in the rules.  I read
the first post (from soph) and wondered about the wording :-)

Without going into too much detail (and legalese), the question seemed to be 
"when is it legal to block with your hand(s) on the opponent's side"

The answer is:  (multiple answers)

a)  on any 3rd hit (from the opponents),  OR
b)  on any 1st or 2nd hit (ditto) that
  1) a ball directed toward your side would cross into the vertical plane
     of the net if otherwise left untouched  AND
  2) there is no player (opponent) able to make a play on the ball

So, answer a) is the easy one.  Any 3rd hit, just reach over (penetrate) as
far as you can and block it.

But, answer b) is a little more complex, and involves judgement on the part
of the 1st referee; is the ball being directed toward your side? would the ball have entered the plane if left untouched?
This is actually the easy judgement to make; just look at the speed and position
of the ball.  The other judgement is tougher;  is there a player able to make
a play on the ball?  There are no criteria set forth in the book, such as the
hypothetical "any player a meter away" (which I have heard before, but is not
true as a generalization).  

So, as a player, it is better to leave those 1st and 2nd hits alone, unless
both condition 1) and 2) above apply, and it is very obvious (like there is
no one that could even get to the ball on a dive).

When the ball gets into the vertical plane of the net, blocking the ball
is legal regardless of what hit it is.  So is attacking, for that matter, but
that's a subject for another day.......

Rob

USA National Referee



---
-legal mumbo jumbo follows-
This mail/post only reflects the opinions of the poster (author), 
and in no manner reflects any corporate policy, statement, opinion,
or other expression by Network Systems Corporation.
From: yeff@Apple.COM (jeff soesbe)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Stanford/Pitt NCAA game (did Piper Hahn play?)
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:52:49 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1754@esl.ESL.COM> Samuel Hahn <sam@esl.com> writes:
>In article <75337@apple.apple.COM> yeff@Apple.COM (jeff soesbe) writes:
>> Stanford/Pittsburgh notes: 
>> Stanford won 15-3, 15-2, 15-4.  The whole match took just about an

>So, unfortunately, since I wasn't able to go, 
>
>	Did Piper play?!


As I remember, Carrie Feldman played virtually the entire game.  I
believe Piper came in at about 11-1 or 12-1 in the final game.

But we'll get to see a lot of Piper next year, when she's the starting
setter!!

Go Stanford!

jef
------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Soesbe
Internet: yeff@apple.com	AppleLink : YEFF
"Got my best suit and my tie/
Shiny silver dollars on either eye."
------------------------------------------------------------
My opinions are probably not Apple's opinions.
------------------------------------------------------------
From: Eric.J.Baumgartner@dartmouth.edu (Eric J. Baumgartner)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Re: Lines question
Date: 16 Dec 92 15:34:17 GMT
 <1992Dec15.194800.6460@news.uiowa.edu>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0b3@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1992Dec15.194800.6460@news.uiowa.edu>
wmaley@alchemy.uhl.uiowa.edu (Walt Maley) writes:

> I guess my question is this: why is it that a foot crossing the center line
> (while still on it) is ok but the same situation occurring on a side line
> is not?  This seems somehow inconsistent to me.  Perhaps it is just me.

If your foot crosses the center line BEFORE the serve it's not OK, same
as for the sidelines. Once play has begun, the emphasis shifts from
"being in your own court" to "not being in your opponent's court" since
you can chase balls as far behind or to the side of the court as local
gym rules allow.

To "be in your opponents court" follows the same principle that "to be
in your court" does. If your foot is spanning the center line you're
not in your own court (on service you'd be called) and for the same
reason you're not in your opponent's court (so on attack/block you
won't be called).

OK, if you buy all that, there's one difference: you can be on the
center line but not over and you're in your own court, but to be called
"under" you must be completely off the center line. So much for my
cutesy theory...

Eric Baumgartner                   *  ebaum@dartmouth.edu
Interactive Media Lab              *  - When in danger or in doubt,
Dartmouth Medical School           *      run in circles, scream and
shout.
From: adam@sw.stratus.com (Mark Adam)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Re: Are 'headers' legal??
Keywords: rules
Date: 11 Dec 92 17:31:44 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: paix.sw.stratus.com

i've seen a guy do it intentionaly in a league i play in. he went up for a
monster spike,swung hard and missed the ball, then snapped his head to the right.
the effect was a 90-degree dink that caught both teams and the refs looking in
the wrong spot.

incredibly effective if you can get your head over the net.

-- 

mark ----------------------------
(adam@paix.sw.stratus.com)	|	My opinions are not those of Stratus.
				|	Hell! I don`t even agree with myself!

	"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers that smell bad."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: robp@landru.network.com (Rob Peglar)
Subject: Re: Question about blocking
Reply-To: robp@landru.network.com
Organization: Network Systems Corporation 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 17:49:04 GMT

In article 724469700@wrs.com, edm@wrs.com (Ed McClannahan) writes:
>Actually, I believe you can attack the ball if either:
>
>    1 - the other team has exhausted their 3 hits, -OR-
>
>    2 - the other team cannot possibly reach the ball
>        (whether or not it would cross over the net if allowed).

This is not correct.

You can never (or, as Dana Carvey would say 'never ever ever never ...')
attack the ball when it is completely on the opponents' side.  This is
different than the blocking rule(s).


The corollary is, once the ball breaks the (vertical) plane of the
net, you can legally attack it (or block it), no matter what.

Rob
USA National Referee

---
-legal mumbo jumbo follows-
This mail/post only reflects the opinions of the poster (author), 
and in no manner reflects any corporate policy, statement, opinion,
or other expression by Network Systems Corporation.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: wmaley@alchemy.uhl.uiowa.edu (Walt Maley)
Subject: Re: Lines question
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:48:00 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3


I guess my question is this: why is it that a foot crossing the center line
(while still on it) is ok but the same situation occurring on a side line
is not?  This seems somehow inconsistent to me.  Perhaps it is just me.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Walt Maley    | 'The ones who love us best, are the ones we'll lay to rest.
GC/MS Chemist |  The ones who love us least, are the ones we'll die to please.
U of Iowa     |  If it's any consolation, I don't pretend to understand them.'
              |                            -Paul Westerberg
wmaley@alchemy|
uhl.uiowa.edu|    -Setters do it with their hands
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: cj531@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ali Momeni)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: What's a good ball to buy?
Date: 17 Dec 1992 04:59:19 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Hello all,
	I'm VERY new in this group (in fact this is my first message,) so
work with me!
	I'm looking for an awsome ball to buy.  An indoor (not beach), leather
or synthetic ball.  I would like for it to be soft.  My budget is limited to,
say, $40.  Does anyone have any suggestions? And if so, where should I buy it,
i.e. where do people buy vollyball "stuff" (balls, pads, ...), by mail 
somewhere?

Thanks (in advance)
ali. 			momeni@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: wlopez@vitalink.com (WLopez)
Subject: Re: What's a good ball to buy?
Reply-To: wlopez@vitalink.com (WLopez)
Organization: Network Systems Corporation
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 09:33:43 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.061408.7111@news.uiowa.edu>, 
wmaley@alchemy.uhl.uiowa.edu (Walt Maley) writes:

> IMHO the only ball to buy is the Tachikara SV5W.  You can get it by mail for
> about $37  (call 1-800-we-spike).  I realize buying by mail is somewhat
> politically incorrect, but it is cheaper.  Ask for a catalog when you call
> they have the best prices I have seen.  One word of advice if you are new
> to the game, put your name/initials all over it in BIG letters, everyone I
> know has had at least one ball stolen.
> 
I agree!  I own many of the "other name brand" volleyballs and the SV5W by 
Tachikara has been by far the best quality!

Buy one and you'll see!

Walter Lopez
wlopez@vitalink.com
From: kjmiller@mitre.org (Kevin Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Re: Lines question
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:49:27 GMT
Followup-To: rec.sport.volleyball
Organization: MITRE

In article <1992Dec14.201503.14948@news.uiowa.edu>,
wmaley@alchemy.uhl.uiowa.edu (Walt Maley) wrote:
> 
> 
> I know that if the ball touches any part of the line, it is in.  My question
> is this:  When in serve receive, if a player's foot on the side line, is he
> technically off the court and in illegal rotation?  This seems inconsistent to
> me.  Obviously I would not be asking this question if I had not been called
> for it last weekend.  Also, if anyone knows where in the USVBA rule book it
> addresses this, I would appreciate it.

USVBA Rules (91-92)
Commentary on Rule 7
3) "...All players, except the server, must be fully on the court at the
time the ball is contacted for service."

So you have to be completely on the court; however,

Rule 1, Article 2 "...Areas defined by court markings shall be measured
from the outside edge of the lines defining such area, with the exception
of the center line (article 3)."

the lines ARE part of the court.  Therefore if your feet are on or inside
the sideline then you are in the court.  Maybe part of your foot was
outside the line?????  Otherwise, to err is human...

> 
> wjm
> 
> setters do it with their hands

-----------------------------------------------------
Kevin Miller       | MITRE's lawyers can't moan,    |
MITRE Corporation  | 'Cause what's stated up there, |
Bedford, MA        | Is my opinion alone,           |
(617) 271-4520     | And not MITRE's to bear.       |
kjmiller@mitre.org |                                |
-----------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: wlopez@vitalink.com (WLopez)
Subject: Re: Question about blocking
Reply-To: wlopez@vitalink.com (WLopez)
Organization: Network Systems Corporation
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 09:25:51 GMT

 
> In article <SOPH.92Dec10111954@bass.bu.edu> soph@bass.bu.edu (sophia hwang) 
> writes:
> >about active blocking, isn't there a ruling that you can not pass (block)
> >over the plane of the net? moving hands to cover the block is standard, but
> >don't think you can break the plane...anyone else???
> >

Once the ball has broken the plane of the net, you can block!


Walter Lopez
wlopez@vitalink.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: mkrogers@unix.amherst.edu (MICHAEL K ROGERS)
Subject: Re: NCAA Regional Results (Women's Division I)
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:32:26 GMT

David Ress P040 (ress@bnr.ca) wrote:
: In article <Bz7wov.M54@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, liu@cerl.uiuc.edu (Albert Liu) writes:
: |> 
: |> Remember that the semis will be broadcast on EPSN on Friday,
: |> December 25 at 9pm PST and Saturday, December 26 at 9pm PST.
: |> The final will be on CBS on Sunday, January 23 at 2pm EST.
:                                        ^^^^^^^^^^
: 
: Is this a typo, or is CBS really going to wait until everyone in
: the country has already heard who won before showing the match?

And how will everyone in the country hear who won?  The coverage
of volleyball in sports news is almost zero.  Perhaps most of
those who would want to watch will know the result.  I agree with
you that a more timely airing would be better.  But at least it
will be shown at all.
From: kko@terapin.com (Kenneth Ko..)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Re: Are 'headers' legal??
Date: 15 Dec 92 03:01:54 PST
Organization: BBS

In article <1992Dec10.185307.22757@u.washington.edu>, storti@beach (Duane
Storti) writes:
>In article <59310@donald.WichitaKS.NCR.COM> tsnider@donald.WichitaKS.NCR.COM  
>(tsnider) writes:
>> 
>> I play VERY recreational volleyball every week, there are no very serious or
>> good players in these pickup games.  Last night a guy returned the ball by
>> hitting it with his head, like soccer, I caught it and was told that it was
a
>> legal hit.  Is this true?  I can't ever remember seeing a hit like this on  
>the
>> games I've seen on TV.  If it is a legal are there any restrictions? 
Doesn't
>> seem very 'fair' to use exotic rules in a recreational game.
>> TIA
>

I missed the original to this so I'll respond to this... I once played with
this guy in a "very recreational" setting who would always DIG spikes with his
head!  The thing is, it was almost always a perfect dig too!
From: kko@terapin.com (Kenneth Ko..)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: NCAAs
Date: 15 Dec 92 03:06:18 PST
Organization: BBS

What's the news on the NCAA's?  Where is the championships gonna be played? 
When?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: edm@wrs.com (Ed McClannahan)
Subject: Re: Question about blocking
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 01:35:00 GMT

van@wucs1.wustl.edu (Van K. Vo) writes:

>Nope.  The only time you can contact the ball when the ball is completely
>on the opponents' side of the net is when blocking.  You cannot do this
>when attacking the ball, but when blocking you can break the plane of the
>net.  The FAQ I think has a section on this.

Actually, I believe you can attack the ball if either:

    1 - the other team has exhausted their 3 hits, -OR-

    2 - the other team cannot possibly reach the ball
        (whether or not it would cross over the net if allowed).
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: liu@cerl.uiuc.edu (Albert Liu)
Subject: NCAA Regional Results (Women's Division I)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 21:50:54 GMT

Friday's results

At Champaign, Illinois, STANFORD defeated Illinois
17-15, 15-6, 15-17, 15-10.

At Long Beach, California, LONG BEACH STATE defeated Pacific
4-15, 15-2, 15-11, 15-7.

Saturday's results

At Gainesville, Florida, FLORIDA defeated Texas
8-15, 14-16, 15-6, 15-2, 15-11.

At Los Angeles, California, UCLA defeated Brigham Young
15-5, 15-8, 15-9.

The Final Four will be held at Albuquerque, New Mexico.

The semifinals will be on Thursday, December 17:

At 8pm, UCLA (32-0) vs. Florida (34-1)
At 10pm, Stanford (29-2) vs. Long Beach State (31-2)

The final will be on Saturday, December 19 at 9pm.

Remember that the semis will be broadcast on EPSN on Friday,
December 25 at 9pm PST and Saturday, December 26 at 9pm PST.
The final will be on CBS on Sunday, January 23 at 2pm EST.
--
Albert Liu
liu@cerl.uiuc.edu
From: wlopez@vitalink.com (WLopez)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Re: USVBA
Date: 19 Dec 92 09:42:55 GMT
Reply-To: wlopez@vitalink.com (WLopez)
Organization: Network Systems Corporation

In article <1992Dec17.164421.14676@news.uiowa.edu>, 
wmaley@alchemy.uhl.uiowa.edu (Walt Maley) writes:

> 
> The other day someone asked me if there was some kind of rating system for
> teams or players for USVBA (men).  My immediate inclination was to say no,
> but then it occurred to me that I don't really know that there isn't one,
> just that I had not heard of one.  Is there some sort of regional or 
national
> rating system for players or individuals?  Anyone?
> 
Don't know if this will answer your question but in the men's USVBA here in 
Northern California, there are different levels of play or divisions. Just 
for starters the divisions are set-up like this (starting at lowest);
B,BB,A,AA and OPEN.


Walter Lopez
wlopez@vitalink.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Re: Attack Block?
From: fehlau@pa881a.inland.com
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:27:15 CDT
Organization: Inland Steel Company, East Chicago, IN
Nntp-Posting-User: fehlau

In article <1992Dec15.003935.1@camins.camosun.bc.ca>, comptec91046@camins.camosun.bc.ca writes:
> O.K. I understand that you CAN penetrate the opponents side but can you do an
> attack block (let me try top explain that).  Going up to block but the ball is
> moving slow.  Can I make a forward motion with both my hands and force the ball 
> down to the floor?  Not really hit the ball but force the ball toward the floor
> at a greater velocity with both hands.
> 
> Chris
>

Yes, provided that:

	1- You are participating in a legal block (see USVBA, rule 8,
		article	14, and commentary on rule 8 - blocking, or previous
		discussion).

	2- The ball is *NOT* held, thrown or pushed (USVBA rule 11,
		article 4).

		No. 2 above is open to wide interpretation by the refs.
		I have seen players break their wrist completely in a
		downward motion	when contacting the ball, only to be called
		for a push.  I have also witnessed players lunging for the
		ball passed	on top of the net, and with a downward motion
		pushed that	ball (using fingers, not the palm) and not get
		called.  Quickly snapping the wrists should be acceptable
		to most refs.  Better yet, if it's a slow moving ball the
		opponents can't get to, jump up and crunch it.

	-- Eric
From: walsh@sparty.zko.dec.com (Chris Walsh)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Re: Attack Block?
Date: 15 Dec 92 22:04:39 GMT
Reply-To: walsh@sparty.zko.dec.com (Chris Walsh)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In theory, you can get called for a throw or carry when 'attack blocking', but in practice it seems
you can do almost anything without getting a call.

I've often wondered, and the rule book doesn't help me out.  Are there any rules of thumb about
what really is legal (and illegal) when directing a ball 'during a blocking action'?
--
Chris Walsh    			walsh@zko.enet.dec.com
603.881.2302  (DTN 381-2302)    
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu (Peter Wung)
Subject: Re: Any awesome books?
Reply-To: wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:29:25 GMT

In article 26269@bmerh85.bnr.ca, whitwam@bnr.ca (Mark Whitwam) writes:
>|In article <1gp1uiINN60r@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cj531@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ali Momeni) writes:
>||> 
>||> Now before everyone starts laughing, I was just wondering if there are any
>||> good books which may teach me some stuff.  Not so much of 'how to hold you
>||> hand' stuff, but more of strategy, the terms and numberings involved and 
>||> oteher 'technical' information.
>||> 
>||> Thanks, ali.		momeni@vu-vlsi.ee.vill.edu
>|
>|I read a really good strategy book a couple of months ago.  It written
>|by Stephen Fraser call Strategies of Competitive Volleyball or
>|something along those lines.   Very useful stuff in it, and easy to read.
>|It was published in Canada so your bookstore/library may have to order
>|it.
>|
>|-- 
>|Mark Whitwam, 7V23    Bell-Northern Research  | Motto: Provide excessive
>|whitwam@bnr.ca        P.O. Box 3511, Stn. C   | detail when describing 
>|                      Ottawa, ON, CAN K1Y     | inconsequential events 


It is a good book, but I think it is published by an outfit out of
Champaign, Illinois.  They also have Mike Hebert's book.  Once again,
check out the Spike Nashbar catalogue, that is where I got all my books.

 
********************************************************************
*Peter Wung			Email:wung@ee.gatech.edu	   * 
*Electric Power Laboratory	Snail mail: 33787 Ga. Tech Station * 
*School of Electrical Engineering	    Atlanta, GA 30332      *
*Georgia Institute of Technology			    	   *
*Atlanta, Georgia						   *
*   	"Pass, Set, CRUSH!"...					   * 
*  	Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad for a short, fat guy. 	   *
*								   *
********************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: umlehner@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Mike Lehnertz)
Subject: Re: USVBA
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 03:37:57 GMT

   Here in New England, we have a rating system of sorts. In the league
that we have (Yankee), all the players in the league are watched and
then given an appropriate rating. At first you rate yourself (usually
low) and then other players/refs or tournament organizers can recommend
moving a player up or down in the ratings. You can be rated from A+ to a
C- or D. Each level is assigned a point (A+ = 10) and tournaments have a
point cap. So, depending on the level of the tournament regulates the
ratings of the players on the teams. Works really well.


                                          - Drummer -



Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: swfc@cs.columbia.edu (Shu-Wie F Chen)
Subject: Re: Attack Block?
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 04:36:09 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.220439.29570@e2big.mko.dec.com> walsh@sparty.zko.dec.com (Chris Walsh) writes:
>In theory, you can get called for a throw or carry when 'attack blocking', but in practice it seems
>you can do almost anything without getting a call.
>
>I've often wondered, and the rule book doesn't help me out.  Are there any rules of thumb about
>what really is legal (and illegal) when directing a ball 'during a blocking action'?
>--

In theory, you can get called for a throw or carry when passing,
setting, hitting, digging, blocking, etc.  It doesn't matter.  A good
ref will call a throw or carry when it occurs regardless of the
particular action involved.  A throw or carry while "attack" blocking
is no different than any other type of throw or carry.

Cheers,
*swfc
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shu-Wie F Chen                               Department of Computer Science
swfc@cs.columbia.edu                         Columbia University
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: wmaley@alchemy.uhl.uiowa.edu (Walt Maley)
Subject: Lines question
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:15:03 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3


I know that if the ball touches any part of the line, it is in.  My question
is this:  When in serve receive, if a player's foot on the side line, is he
technically off the court and in illegal rotation?  This seems inconsistent to
me.  Obviously I would not be asking this question if I had not been called
for it last weekend.  Also, if anyone knows where in the USVBA rule book it
addresses this, I would appreciate it.

wjm

setters do it with their hands
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball