HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: He calls this an introduction?!
Date: 19 Aug 92 04:21:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Aug19.042153.28616
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

This whole "Lovegod, Arne, everyone else" bitchiness thread is
bizarre. I suppose it's a standard motss cycle thing - everyone was so
love and kisses the last month - maybe we can't help ourselves. now I
think I prefer genteel conversation.

Normally I would avoid this thread (in keeping with being part of
soc.motss.nice), but this last message from "Lovegod".. well, I feel
like I have something to say.

In article <1992Aug19.022506.22041@wam.umd.edu> lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Lovegod) writes:
>I would like to apologize to anyone who may have mistaken my last
>post as being anti-women.

Fine, but do you understand *why* your post is interpreted as being
anti-woman? If you work a little, you might learn something.

>Anyway, I should have seen [the flames] coming. I'm a lot younger
>than most of you ... The most horrible thing about it is that a lot
>of my older counterparts don't see fit to bridge the gap, or at least
>meet construction halfway. It's really very frightening.

WHAT? What the fuck? Speaking as a young gay person who has many
wonderful friendships with "my older counterparts" on motss, I
respectfully ask, what *are* you babbling about? 

soc.motss is one of the least age-biased groups of people I have ever
been in. Motss is one of the places you are most likely to be judged
by your ideas, not your age, or your skin colour, or your fashion
sense. If you want to claim prejudice (in the technical sense of the
word), I suggest you try somewhere else. The only prejudice I've ever
seen on soc.motss had to do with people with PSUVM in their address.

Claiming that you are being unfairly harassed because of your age is
ridiculous. I submit that if people are "not seeing fit to bridge the
gap", then perhaps the problem lies with you, not everyone else. 

It takes two to communicate, "Lovegod". You can't just sit there and
say things like:

>I am the future. The future of men, the future of African-Americans,
>the future of homosexuality.  

and expect your "older counterparts" to coming running at you all
lovey dovey. Being young does not make you interesting.

>You have the choice between reaching out to me or ignoring me.

There is a middle ground between "reaching out" and "ignoring".
Ordinary relationships. I suggest you try to hack it.


Your original "Introduction" idea was well-intentioned and sweet. I
wouldn't have made a catty response to it. Someone did. You get to
choose how you interpret it. You get to choose how you  deal with it.

The same person who two days ago proposed that we all get to know each
other a little better, friendly like, said:

>Arne, all I can say is that I hope you are not as miserable as you
>seem to be.  No one deserves that much misery -- then again I have no
>idea what you've done in your life.

"Lovegod", contempt is not a good starting point to make friends.
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/              Death needs time for what it kills to grow in
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Subject: Re: Buck Rogers (was: research on the gay male voice)
Followup-To: soc.motss
Summary: hangs head in shame
Organization: deranged right now
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 15:39:04 GMT

ohdearohdearohdear, fj!! is absolutely right, i have *conflated*
two different, but equally unwatchable, movies.  the winged men
are in the 1980 _flash gordon_, starring the wooden sam j. jones
and the wooden melody anderson, with supporting roles played by the
bearish brian blessed and the deliciously evil ornella muti and
topol and max von sydow (i am not making this up) doing something
or other.

i am a poor excuse for a movie faggot.  i should stick to linguistics...

arnold (hanging head in shame)


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Introduction
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 17:44:47 GMT


In article <k5dpbh7j@cck.coventry.ac.uk>
idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:

>Come back when you're as old as Jess and we'll see whether
>you're worth even one percent of him by then.

I don't want to seem ungrateful for the implied compliment,
but ...

Who'd want to be even 1% of a wizened old crow of 94?  Not
even Jess!  And by then, probably Donald will be way too old
for me.  I'll be gumming the Nelsons Minar, Johns Dorrance,
and Sims Aberson of soc.lgb, circa 2029, urging them to
shout sweet nothings directly into the ear trumpet.

More seriously, a tangentially relevant story.  George
Gershwin trouped off to Paris to increase his knowledge of
musical composition, intending to study with Maurice Ravel.
Ravel turned him right down, saying "Why would you want to
be a second-rate Ravel when you're already a first-rate
Gershwin?"

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tovah@panix.com (Tovah Hollander)
Subject: Re: Those Who Are Gone Now
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 21:58:54 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

Jess Anderson writes:

>Responding to David Christopher Rogers's excellent
>suggestion to add to the FAQ a list of motssers who are
>now gone, he begins:
>
>rob@mtdiablo.concord.ca.us <Rob Bernardo>
>
>To be added:
>
>seth@pbhya.pacbell.com <Seth Miller>
>[???] <Doug Mosher>
>ozdaltx!root@uunet.uu.net <Robert Scott>
>
>Rest in peace, all, we remember you.


This IS a wonderful idea (she says, through the tears).  From the 
mailing list for the first motss.con, I find:
Doug Mosher -- SPGDCM@CMSA.Berkeley.edu (the man with the rainbows!)

-- Tovah Hollander
   tovah@panix.com -OR- tovah@onion.salad.mssm.edu
>-- 
>Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
>Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
>NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
>Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay Homophobia & Allan Williams
Date: 23 Aug 92 09:57:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Aug23.095752.11733
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Aug23.033436.18138@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:

>I have seen "less butch" gay men give the straight-acting ones a
>ration of shit

But I can never be where whether it is supposed to be 2 tablespoons or
2 teaspoons. Anyone remember?
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/  Look, over there, it's a real dog and it's really talking
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: michaelh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Mike Hennahane)
Subject: Re: International Male (was R
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: 21 Aug 92 07:46:20 GMT

jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:

>Last year [?], IM had a summer catalog with a
>*prominantly* displayed, fully decorative female
>on the cover, with several cameo appearances
>inside.  Now, you know perhaps how often IM 
>reuses their photographic work [I read it *only*
>for the articles, mind]; she *never* was seen
>again after that *one* catalog.

>Is there a trend here?

i heard a story once that might corroborrate this. im hired a model
and put him in their catalog. he was fired after a couple issues
because he looked too faggy and they were trying to change their image
(something like: we're changing our image and you don't have the
"look" we're looking for). well, guess what? becoming less faggy sold
a hell of a lot less clothes, so im changed back. they asked the model
to come back after they changed their mind, but he told them to take a
hike. he wasn't interested in working with people that would jerk him
around like that.

--mike

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tovah@panix.com (Tovah Hollander)
Subject: About Oriana
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 21:48:46 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

Arnold M Zwicky writes:
>(the future of [rob's] mare, oriana spadix, is still something of a issue)

Apologies if someone more knowledgeable has already posted about this,
but I haven't seen anything and other people might have been wondering, 
as I was:

Mara and I visited Rob's family the other night and I asked his sister,
Claire, about Oriana.  She told us that Rob's neighbor (Corey? not sure 
of her name), who has always been the only other person to take care of
Oriana, will be looking after her at Rob's place and then eventually 
moving Oriana to her place.  (Oriana already has a thing going with one
of this neighbor's horses, too, it seems.)

(But I forgot to ask if the neighbor had net access for Oriana...)


-- Tovah Hollander
   tovah@panix.com -OR- tovah@onion.salad.mssm.edu
From: lotter@cc.und.ac.za (Eddie Lotter)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: [Anonymous posting] Seattle (Siemens-Quantum) info?
Date: 19 Aug 92 12:01:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: cc.lotter.1.714225672
Organization: University Of Natal (Durban)

thomas@mips.com (Chris Thomas) writes:
>[This is an anonymous posting, made for someone who wishes to remain
>anonymous because of their job situation, and *not* because they're
>closeted.  If you want to reply to this article, please email me a
>response, and I'll make sure it gets back to the person.  Thanks!]
>[.....]
>
>    -  are there any motss readers at Siemens-Quantum?  If so,
>how's the environment there?
>[....]

It would be very interesting, I think, if people in general would
comment about their personal experiences in the work place.

Mine will follow in time. This is my second post. 8-)

Eddie
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\ PMail : Lotter@cc.und.ac.za                                        /
/                                                                    \
\ "Calling occupants of interplanetary craft, we are your friends."  /
/  - Carpenters                                                      \
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rcw@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Robert White)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: wearing symbols
Date: 17 Aug 92 06:42:45 GMT
Organization: The WhiteStar Corporation

In article <1992Aug16.153253.2613@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>
>	On the other shoe, though, something just occurred to me:
>what would it take for some homophobic organzation to trademark and/or
>otherwise copyright the pink triangle or the rainbow flag?  Is it
>logistically possible?  Certainly were someone to start using the
>stylized "M" that McDonalds uses they'd be sued, ditto for other 
>corporate logos.  How are our symbols protected from corporate molestation?
>BBC

In a word, they are not protected, or rather not immune from litigation.
It might be a wise idea for a  GLBO*
friendly group to register the trademark, but this presents problems, 
specifically which of the various groups should then "own" it.
I think most people would agree it should belong to all of us.

Once registered trademark status is obtained, the use of it must then
be actively defended should you expect to retain its registered trademark
status.  This is why McDonald's sues anyone who remotely infringes upon
their trademarks.  What we have here is a bad catch-22 situation.

On the other hand, should the fundies co-opt our symbols, an appropriate
friendly group could conceivably demonstrate that the "trademark" was
in common use before registered trademark status was granted.  

The problem is that attorneys specializing in such matters require
lots of money - usually up-front for trademark and patent infringement
cases.  Unfortunately, I wouldn't at all be surprised to see some group
try to pull this.  I do think we'd eventually win, barring that we'd 
trademark the cross ;-)



-- 
  [   Robert Carleton White, Jr.                      rcw@scicom.alphacdc.com]
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Barbara Bush is a piece of shit.
Date: 22 Aug 92 16:50:34 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <os4iieg@fido.asd.sgi.com> pauli@sgi.com (Paul Isaacs) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.133620.126762@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> dh0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DONALD L. HARDY) writes:
>>Why don't we bump the bozo and elect
>>the Babs?  Makes nore sense.
>>
>
>Barbara Bush sucks.  It was finalized for me last night.  No more
>making excuses for her.  She may have a grandmother face, but she
>stinks like the rest of 'em.
>
>Why?
>
>Last night when Danny-boy condemned us all ( He was carrying on about the
>America grew up in, how great it was, and how we have to hold on to our
>family values. Then came something like:  "...and some people think that
>other lifestyles are acceptable, but we do not" )  
>
>It was a clear attack on the GLB community, and 
>guess who clapped and smiled warmly?  
>Sitting all by herself? 
>With a look that said "Oh, gosh, that Danny sure does do us all proud."
>
>Well, Barbara Bush can stick my lifestyle up her family's values.
>
>
>pauli.


I definitely agree. I used to think that Babs might have been the one
reasonable person in the entire Bush administration, but now I see
that when things are up against the wall she goose-stepped right into
line with the rest of them. If she reminds people of their
grandmothers, well that's no great compliment for some great old gals.


Besides, I can probably make better chocolate chip cookies than hers
any day.
-- 
"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
			-Joseph Beam_
Terrance Heath 
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris)
Subject: Re: Huntsville? Hmmmm.... (was Re: Introduction)
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:09:38 GMT

adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

>[...]
>> >I didn't make any campaign promises to you, did I?  (Suddenly worried.)
>>
>> WHAT???!!!  You don't *REMEMBER*??? (Indignant)

>But of *course* I remember!  I was just *teasing* you!

>(Huntsville?  Oh dear, what did I say in Huntsville?)

Oh puhleeze!  Surely the Motss Grand Faggot has never ventured to Huntsville,
Alabama?!

To quote _Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary_ :

     dulls-ville n [dull + -sville (as in Huntsville)] slang
      : something that is dull or boring; also : BOREDOM



>> jeff - who's feelin kinda woozie~~~
                                   ^^^
                                   NOTE: These are *NOT* sarcasm flags!

>Would you like another sip?

I really shouldn't...  I'm in danger of becoming an Arneholic.

-jeff
From: mbishop+@CS.CMU.EDU (Matthew Bishop)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Flanders & Swan; Was: Anna Russell: I Gave My Love A Cherry
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:27:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BtAJ2n.F3v.2
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University

In article <HOPKINS.92Aug19200035@delta9.turing.ac.uk>, hopkins@turing.ac.uk (Don Hopkins) writes:
|> sleat@kpc.com (Michael Sleator) writes:
|> > There are other good lines, such as when Francis (the reluctant
|> > cannibal) says, "I'll never let another man past my lips!"
|> 
|> And Francis had *such* a camp lilt!
|> 
|> "Have you been talking to one of your mothers again???"
|> 
|> "If The Joo-Joo had meant us not to eat people,
|>  he wouldn't have made us of MEAT!"
|> 
|> 	-Don

In the booklet that was issued with the "Complete Flanders & Swann"
boxed set, it says that the last line of "Satellite Moon" --- which is
the one that ends

"...and the girl in my arms.... is Mabel Figworthy."

--- originally ended

"...and the girl in my arms.... is a boy."

but they changed it because it was a bit risque for early sixties Britain.
This isn't necessarily relevant to the above discussion, but it's 
presumably true.


Matt
(de-muffining himself)
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: memorial wishes
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 09:22:25 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Aug22.050656.9682@spdcc.com>
  <1992Aug22.144740.4272@cis.ohio-state.edu>

Arnold Zwicky writes:
>and absolutely no teddy bears.

:-(  Not even *live* ones?

Which reminds me that one of the thoughts that's crossed my
mind in this regard would be that I'd like any such "service" for
me to be as much a mind-fuck to Middle Amerika as possible.

I mean, can you imagine a crowd full of leather people and grubby
bikers in a place like Forest Lawn???  With the "Guest of Honor"
dressed in *his* leather, septum-bone in place? (At least, prior 
to being cremated....)

Sort of a way of giving one last, loud "FUCK THE WORLD!"

;-{)##]
 
() It's not the tragedies that kill us, it's the messes.
()      -- Dorothy Parker
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: nerwick@spc9.jpl.nasa.gov (Randy Nerwick)
Subject: Re: Whizzzzzzz ( was Re: Introduction)
Summary: There's hot, and then there's HOT...
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 04:45:35 GMT

In article <l958abINN6r8@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>In article <19AUG92.11513511@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
>> In a previous article, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) wrote:
>> >>  Bzzt. Too hot. How can you screw in heat like this?
>> > 
>> >I can't even *think* about screwing in heat like this.
>>
>> Oh my.  That is serious.  This brings up the images of the supposedly hot
>> love scenes in movies in which, after orgasm, the protagonists are dripping
>> with sweat.  It looks good in the movies at least.
>
>The sweat scenes always make me laugh.  Are they having sex
>in a sauna?  Do any of *you* work up a lather like that?

You bet some of us do!  And it doesn't require a sauna when I'm
involved, just a hot partner and plenty of time to play :-)

I must admit, though, that this business of sweating even _before_
starting to play has slowed me down a bit for the last couple
of weeks.  I just seem to run out of steam :-(

Randy Nerwick			Telos/Jet Propulsion Lab
nerwick@spc9.jpl.nasa.gov	(818) 351-2341 (Work)
nerwick@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams)
Subject: Re: Gay Homophobia (was Re: Too straight looking to be gay???) (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:45:11 GMT

I've been following this thread with more than a small degree of disgust.

My question: What about those of use who just *are*?

--
 ________________ Alan Williams  vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu ___________________
 \/ A hypothetical paradox: What would happen in a battle between an         \/
    _Enterprise_ security team, who always get killed soon after appearing,
    and a squad of Imperial Stormtroopers, who can't hit the broad side of
    a planet?                 	--Tom Galloway
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Whizzzzzzz ( was Re: Introduction)
Date: 16 Aug 92 19:45:26 GMT
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <15761@star.cs.vu.nl> fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!) writes:
> (A written introduction to me? No way, I always let somebody else
> introduce me to people I don't know.)

That's because you've got manners.

> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> >As long as we're on this Cole Porter kick, 

"Always True to You in My Fashion", the Cole Porter song
Lovegod had in his .sig, is a *wonderful* song, but I wonder
why he chose Blossom Dearie's recording rather than the recording
by the recently deceased Lisa Kirk (who, when alive, was a tribute 
to the embalmer's art)?

> >                                           I'll close with 
> >his French lyrics to "Find Me a Primitive Man" 

If I ever get a nightclub act together (first I'll have to
learn how to sing; if that proves impossible, then I'll have
to study Kay Thompson *very* *intently* and get my costume
people to put together something for me along the lines of
Jane Russell's peekaboo costume in "The French Line") "Find
Me a Primitive Man" will close the first half.

> This line is so...
>
> >   Pour regeler mon chauffage centrale.
>
> cheezy. I mean, gawd, 'for my central heating' ! It's almost painful.

I've always thought the same about "I've Got You Under My Skin".
I mean, I've heard of docking, but really...

Arne
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Barbara Bush is a piece of shit.
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 22:05:59 GMT

[]
Hear, hear.  An interesting piece on NPR last night
described in detail how she's "aw, shucks"-ing her
way right back into the White House.  She's actually
very political and very tough, and she's not on our
side.
-- 
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: jf@threel.co.uk (John Fisher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Time to start secular scouts
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:46:46 GMT
Organization: 3L Ltd, 86/92 Causewayside, Edinburgh EH9 1PY, UK


In article <305030007@hpopd.pwd.hp.com>,
apm@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Andrew Merritt) writes:

> In the UK and other European countries there is an organisation called the
> Woodcraft Folk, about which I know little except that it is non-religious and
> vaguely socialist (which probably means something different here from the
> US) in outlook.  I believe it has been going for a few decades.  Is there a
> branch in the US?  Does it have a policy on sexual orientation?
> 
> (I was a Scout, and was always put off by the twee-ness of the Woodcraft Folk
> name, but they seem to do much the same things as Scouts and Guides without
> the religious angle).

The Woodcraft Folk have been around at least since the
thirties.  They are, or used to be, associated with the
Cooperative Movement, which is vaguely socialist.  They are
non-religious and their groups are for both sexes.  I gather
that the various troops are fairly autonomous and vary quite
a bit.  I think their origin was a reaction not to the
Scouts' religious attitudes so much as to their rather
rancid patriotism. 

They use the Coop flag (a rainbow!) and place lots of
emphasis on being non-racist, non-sexist and inter-
nationalist in their outlook.  These days there's a heavy
ecological interest too.  They sing leftish songs and I used
to meet bunches of them on anti-nuclear-weapons marches in
the sixties.  An atmosphere of the outdoors, good humour and
tweedy vegginess prevailed.  Their age-groups are very
mixed, too. 

My sister's kids are thinking about joining.  I'll try to
find out more if anyone's interested.

--John
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: wearing symbols
Date: 16 Aug 92 19:38:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Aug16.193801.4950
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Aug16.153253.2613@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>>I just noticed tonight that International Male is selling Freedom Rings
>>in their catalog.  
>	That's all we need - more co-opting of symbols of gay pride, etc.
>as *fashion statements* and *fashion accessories*...

Yeah, but the only people who get International Male are queer. So if
they're being co-opted, at least it stays in the family.
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/       Before the cream sits out too long, you must whip it
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: Freedom (was Re: Gay Homophobia)
Date: 23 Aug 92 03:18:16 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.


/jake, who really has *nothing* to say to sarver...



Actually, jake, after reading your post it appears you have nothing
to say at all . . .