HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Florence King
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<JMC.92Nov4203839@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> <1992Nov10.075441.8574@netcom.com>
Date: 10 Nov 92 00:30:14

In article <1992Nov10.075441.8574@netcom.com> tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox) writes:

   In article <JMC.92Nov4203839@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
   >Florence King had an article in _The Atlantic_, or was it _Harper's_,
   >some years ago about rednecks that struck me as an appeal to prejudice,
   >a fashionable prejudice among the liberal public of the time, but
   >still prejudice, and intellectually and morally no better than expressions
   >of prejudice against blacks or Jews.  Are the enthusiasts for Florence
   >King sure she isn't simply massaging their prejudices?

	   Though Professor McCarthy is no doubt justified in finding liberal
   prejudice everywhere, he's outside his proper area of expertise here.  In
   the South, making fun of rednecks is often, as it has been for some time,
   a widespread amusement, and hardly one restricted to liberals or their
   fellow travelers.
   -- 
				   Tom Maddox
			       tmaddox@netcom.com
		   "The Reptoids eat humans like we eat chickens."
				   Alex Alexander

I suppose that's right, and the liberal prejudice against rednecks
is a descendant of an aristocratic prejudice just as the liberal
prejudice against businessmen is a descendant of the aristocratic
prejudice.  Prejudice migrates rather easily from one group to
another.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
From: oliver@dougfir.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Oliver Sharp)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: GENIUS:Life/Science of Richard Feynman
Date: 12 Nov 1992 16:08:30 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: dougfir.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <28054@castle.ed.ac.uk> jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
>Incidentally, I found myself curious to learn more about Freeman Dyson. Any
>biographies about him?

Well, it's not a biography of him, but he does feature prominently in the
book _The Starship and the Canoe_ by Ken Brower.  This is mainly the story
of Freeman's son George, who chose to use his intelligence in quite a
different direction from his father.  George doesn't like modern life
very much, and at the time the book was written was living in a treehouse
near the Inside Passage.  His fascination is with canoes, or more
properly with the Aleut kayak called a baidarka by Russian fur traders.

The book describes George's attempts to build the ultimate baidarka and 
travel all over the Pacific Northwest in it, contrasting his ambitions 
to those of his father.  George and his father are somewhat estranged,
and the book shows them trying to reach towards each other.  It's a 
tremendously fun story, with spots of hilarity as we meet some of the 
odd people who cluster around George.  If nothing else, I highly recommend 
the fourth chapter where Brower describes the treehouse.

Brower, by the way, is the son of the environmentalist David Brower, who
is the main figure in a book I recently recommended called _Encounters
With the Archdruid_.

The writing is, as they say, vigorous and not overly refined; it's not a
particularly deep investigation of anything, but you do get to meet
some interesting people and travel along on some terrific voyages.

Cheers,
- Oliver

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: The trouble with gurus
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:46:38 GMT

	Fido writes:
								
								>my
>candidate for Most Pompous Ass among the self-appointed gurus would be
>Joseph Campbell.

	And Bill Moyers is his prophet?

	Keith
>						Fido


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith Morgan		 	|In literature, as in love, we are 
kamorgan@athena.mit.edu  	|astonished at what is chosen by others.
		         	|	        Andre Maurois
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Eudaimonic Advice to the World Weary
Date: 7 Nov 1992 13:48:04 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

Clayton Cramer writes:

	Tom Maddox writes:

		Fido has suffered lately.  First he was taken to task 
		for egregious misstatement about the ownership of 
		firearms in England by the Semi-Lunatic Mr. Cramer 
		(not a pleasant experience, I would imagine)...

	Semi-Lunatic: someone who can defend a position without the 
	need for petty insults.

MacDogsnot -- as so often -- is full of it. Fido offered an opinion
on some aspect of gun control, and backed it up with a statement on
the law as it relates to firearms in Great Britain which he inagined
was true -- it certainly reflected a widely held belief. Cramer then
jumped in with a bunch of good legal stuff which destroyed the basis
for my argument, but not, of course, the basis for my belief. On the
facts, Cramer was right and I was wrong. Facts may inform debate but
they can never be the subject for debate. When it comes to guesses
I bat about 0.500 and I will never try to escape from error by whiny
statements "that's not quite what i meant". 

							Fido
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Et in Arcadia ego
Date: 11 Nov 1992 02:09:06 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

Microsoc writes:

	Fido writes:

		[fascinating description of sconcing deleted with regret]

		In my time Baliol was a monastery. Women were grudgingly 
		allowed in college as guests until 6pm, and after that, 
		NOT! Hall was a frighteningly masculine place. One evening 
		I smuggled in my sweetheart, Rachel Myfanwy Lewis, a 
		Scholar of Somerville College, and got away with it, but 
		I cannot remember a like occasion during my tenure.

	Those of the r.a.b.ble given to apocalyptic wails of "barbarians 
	at the gates" may care to know that nowadays Balliol is a mixed 
	College, with no guest rules whatsoever (camp beds are available 
	from the Porters' Lodge). And this very term (Michaelmas '92) 
	saw the (re)introduction of semi-formal hall (no gowns) after 
	many years... O Tempora! O Mores!

I have stated before that Balliol and Somerville should have joined
forces. As it is, Balliol has nothing like equal numbers, and Somerville
loses the creme de la creme to Balliol. Americans should know that the
British Camp Bed is a Procrustean thing not designed to encourage the 
livelier sexual pursuits.

Your Head Porter, whose name I forget, ran the JCR when I was a
stripling, and he will know all about sconcing. It might be worth
a try. Are there still Smokers?  Balliol Book of Bawdy Verse?
Gorduley? Cellars full of Chateau Margaux? &c., &c. My tutor, Jack
de Wet has Passed On, I imagine. 

	On the other hand, the Bursar in his infinite wisdom _does_ 
	allow students to have data-links free of charge in their 
	rooms...

No students in my day...Hurrumph. Students went to other places.

	Yours in Effortless Superiority,

	Marc Read
	Domus Exhibitioner
	Coll. de Ball. in Univ. Oxon.

		Franciscus Muir
		Domus Exhibitioner
		Coll de Ball.

Cor Blimey. Two Balliol Boys talkin' like this and all paid for by the
Department of Defense. Shall we let them into the secret of just what
a Domus Exhibitioner is? Nah. A hint. Domus is Latin for House, as in
House Wine....

							Fido
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Torturing Politicals
Date: 10 Nov 92 05:50:17 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <JMC.92Nov9170105@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:

>I'm sorry I ate
>That missionary steak
>Said the cannibal king with a frown.
>For often I've heard
>The old proverb,
>You can't keep a good man down.

Not quite the same thing, but arguably the same genre:

		 The Purist

                 I give you now Professor Twist,
                 A conscientious scientist.
                 Trustees exclaimed, ``He never bungles!''
                 And sent him off to distant jungles.
                 Camped on a tropic riverside,
                 One day he missed his loving bride.
                 She had, the guide informed him later,
                 Been eaten by an alligator.
                 Professor Twist could not but smile.
                 ``You mean,'' he said,``a crocodile.''

                                  -- Ogden Nash
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jmiller@mica.webo.dg.com (Janice Miller)
Subject: Re: Torturing Politicals
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:37:45
Organization: NSDD, Data General Corp., Westboro, MA

Fido writes:

   Ken Warkentyne writes:

	   John McCarthy wrote:

		   [punny cannibal poem deleted]

	   Would you recite that poem to someone whose mother was eaten by
	   cannibals . . .  [more bad stuff happens to Mom]  I think not.

   But this is precisely what happened to Cunegonde in Voltaire's *CANDIDE*,
   or are we not reading books anymore?

Did Prof. McCarthy recite his poem to Cunegonde?  Did Voltaire recite
_Candide_ to her?  Was she in the audience at Bernstein's opening?
I'll have to do some re-reading.  Perhaps that's in the version they
keep at Oxford, so the rest of us can be properly shamed when
necessary.

--------

Torquemada!
Do not ask him for justice!
Torquemada!
Do not ask him for mercy!
Torquemada!
Face it, you can't talk him outta anything!

--
--
Janice Miller                           janice_miller@dg.com
Network Systems Development Division
Data General Corporation
Westboro MA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: nickles@sage.cc.purdue.edu (john a nickles)
Subject: Re: That's Not Funny!
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 05:19:03 GMT

 I think Mel Brooks summed it up best:
  "Tragedy is when I get a paper cut.
   Comedy is when you fall into a sewer and die"

John A. Nickles
From: amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Eudaemonic Pie
Date: 6 Nov 92 10:58:07 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1992Nov6.032824.17843@samba.oit.unc.edu> joan@med.unc.edu 
(Joan Shields) writes:

>In article <1992Nov5.232230.5279@netcom.com> tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov2.144747.8341@klaava.Helsinki.FI> amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell) writes:
>>>I don't bring peace of mind, I bring a sword to cut you free from Habit.
>>
>>	*Megalomania alert*.
>
>Yea, Tom, but he's kind of a cute megalomaniac - though he doesn't hold a
>candle to you, in terms of being cute not megalomania.

I didn't know my stunning good looks showed through the net.  Please
don't try to apologize for me, Joan-wet-fishes, I pride myself on
my megalomania.

-- 
Marko Amnell
amnell@klaava.helsinki.fi
Graduate Student in Philosophy
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox)
Subject: Re: Need help FAST on trivia question
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:20:46 GMT

In article <1992Oct30.150646.17311@galileo.physics.arizona.edu> lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat) writes:
>"Hamlet" was first published in 1603 in a rather corrupt quarto
>assembled from actors' memories ("To be or not to be; I there's the
>point") and then again in 1604 in a clean version from Shakespeare's
>original papers.  Published again in the First Folio, revised from the
>1604 edition.

	A channeling wombat with answers to questions Shakespeare scholars
have ached to answer?  A parapsychologically or preternaturally insightful
wombat, or time-traveling one?

	Unless there has been a remarkable breakthrough in Shakespeare
studies quite recently, all theories about Shakespearean texts remain
conjectural.  None of the "foul papers" has ever been seen (if you except 
the brief fragment of _Sir Thomas More_, itself only recently given 
general acceptance into the Shakespeare canon), and theories about actors'
memorial reconstruction, while compelling in many ways, lack for actual
evidence.  

	Unless, as I allude to above, Things Have Changed.  As to which,
in Perotvian fashion, I would be all ears.


-- 
				Tom Maddox
		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
		"The Reptoids eat humans like we eat chickens."
				Alex Alexander
From: mi@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Mark Interrante)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Looking for book on PR...
Date: 10 Nov 92 00:54:58 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas

Hi,  I am looking for a book on the Public relations field.  I seem to 
remember a popular book by an influential PR executive that was 
published last year.  Does anyone know of its title? or aother useful
introduction to modern PR? Thanks.

Mark Interrante
mfi@uxmail.ust.hk or mi@ponder.csci.unt.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: joan@med.unc.edu (Joan Shields)
Subject: Re: A rose is a rose is a rose.
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:56:42 GMT

"Sweetest little fella
 Everybody knows
 Don't know what to call him
 But he's mighty like a rose."

 -From the recordings of Count John McCormack and the Carols,
  written by E. Nevin


Yours in wet fishes,

Joan
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Truth According to Mickie Medved
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:47:50 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Nov6.162401.17124@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, colten@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (marc.colten) writes:
> In article <1992Nov6.052908.29199@eff.org>, mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
> > In article <1992Nov5.222809.10131@grebyn.com> fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster) writes:
# # #There are things that can't be laughed at?  Topics that contain no
# # #raw material for humor?  Like what?
# # 
# # Torturing political prisoners to death. To name one thing.
# 
# What about Woody Allen's Bananas where they use rock music to
# wear down a prisoner, and consider "bringing out the Leroy Neiman
# paintings" as the coup de grace?
# 
# marc colten

The source of the humor isn't torture (because I think we all
recognize that rock music and Leroy Neiman paintings aren't
torture), but in the insults to both forms of art.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
The Physician Assisted Death Initiative failed.  Term limits for Congressmen
passed.  If only we could have combined the two... two terms, and a doctor
does lethal injection...
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: joan@med.unc.edu (Joan Shields)
Subject: Re: The Eudaemonic Pie
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:05:40 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.105807.9902@klaava.Helsinki.FI> amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell) writes:

Joan Shields writes:

>>Yea, Tom, but he's kind of a cute megalomaniac - though he doesn't hold a
>>candle to you, in terms of being cute not megalomania.

>I didn't know my stunning good looks showed through the net.  Please
>don't try to apologize for me, Joan-wet-fishes, I pride myself on
>my megalomania.

That's very nice and I'm very happy for you.

I wasn't trying to apologize for you, Marko, my sweet - just trying to find 
a redeeming feature.  

Wet fishes and all, 

Joan
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Need more of Carlos Castaneda
From: jmarold@netlink.cts.com (Jeff Marold)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 22:03:31 PST
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:

> In article <1992Nov3.153557.29410@news.nd.edu> jortiz@schumann.helios.nd.edu 
> >I posted here a couple of weeks ago asking for any
> >information regarding Castaneda.  I got a couple
> >of interesting and helpful responses that left me
> >craving for more.  So if you know anything about
> >Castaneda and particularly, whether the Don Juan
> >books are fact or fiction, let me know.  Personal
> >opinions will be more than welcome.  I would
> >deeply appreciate it!!!
> >
> 
> Richard C. deMille wrote 2 books on Casteneda.
> The Don Juan books are fiction, a gemisch of
> eastern ideas (zen, Tibetan) and shamanism cooked
> up by Casteneda.  The deMille books are pretty
> fascinating stuff.  He's found out a lot about
> Casteneda (not his real name).  Casteneda is
> a real trickster and put it over on USC as well
> as a lot of his readers.  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
> geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've read all of Castaneda's books and think it's gossly inaccuracte to 
call him a "trickster." In the late 60s a book was written (I dont 
remember the author) which conlclusively proved that the books couldnt 
be "fact" as Castaneda is too inconsistent about the timing of certain 
events. Significantly, however, the book concluded that Castaneda's books 
were very significant as mythology and as a description of psychotherapy 
process. Scott Peck "The Road Less Traveled" believes this as well. If 
you hunt around in publec libraries Im sure you can find ac opy of the 
book. I believe it will enhance your appreciation rather than destroy it.
*
*
PS Everone know that Castaneda was a UCLA student.

--                    
INTERNET:  jmarold@netlink.cts.com (Jeff Marold)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!jmarold
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
From: amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Eudaemonic Pie
Date: 11 Nov 92 11:10:11 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

Joan "wet fishes and all" Shields writes:

	I wasn't trying to apologize for you, Marko, my sweet - just trying
	to find a redeeming feature.  

Why don't you come up and see me sometime, my vixen, and I'll show
you my redeeming feature.

-- 
Marko Amnell
amnell@klaava.helsinki.fi
Graduate Student in Philosophy
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ashall@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Andrew S Hall)
Subject: Book Search
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 18:57:23 GMT

I am desperately searching for a book entitled Holy Grail Across the Atlantic
by Michael Bradley. I can't find it in Books in Print for the USA.

This summer someone I met had it. She was from Canada and had got it there. 
When I returned to the States, I couldn't find this book.

If you can help, please E-mail me

ashall@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
From: dr3u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Daniel Read)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Cormac McCarthy
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:09:01 GMT
	<1992Nov7.151840.3094@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>
Organization: Engineering and Public Policy, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Mujtaba Ghouse says:

    b) the original poster said that he had never seen an "inarguably 
       inappropriate word choice" by McCarthy.  The use of rebate is
       not inarguable, as this argument has shown.  In any case, the
       word "rebate" refers to the air, not the heat.

MY RESPONSE:

Nothing is unarguable, although some arguments are less convincing than
others.  Consequently, if we want to discuss Tom Maddox's obstreperous
claim we must treat it as if it didn't contain the hedge.  That doesn't
mean we can't argue about appropriateness, but only that the fact that
we CAN argue does not by itself end the argument.

I also found "rebate" to be an unusual word in that context, but I
usually assume that if I had the OED in front of me I would find a
plausible predecessor.

daniel
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox)
Subject: Re: Florence King
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 07:54:41 GMT

In article <JMC.92Nov4203839@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
>Florence King had an article in _The Atlantic_, or was it _Harper's_,
>some years ago about rednecks that struck me as an appeal to prejudice,
>a fashionable prejudice among the liberal public of the time, but
>still prejudice, and intellectually and morally no better than expressions
>of prejudice against blacks or Jews.  Are the enthusiasts for Florence
>King sure she isn't simply massaging their prejudices?

	Though Professor McCarthy is no doubt justified in finding liberal
prejudice everywhere, he's outside his proper area of expertise here.  In
the South, making fun of rednecks is often, as it has been for some time,
a widespread amusement, and hardly one restricted to liberals or their
fellow travelers.
-- 
				Tom Maddox
		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
		"The Reptoids eat humans like we eat chickens."
				Alex Alexander
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: Malt does more than Milton can (Was: Re: Et in Arcadia ego)
Organization: Clark University
Date: 13 NOV 92 00:06:52 GMT

heidi@wales.net.com (Heidi Wolf) writes:

>Here's another obligatory booky reference for you:  John McPhee's
>THE CROFTER AND THE LAIRD, which contains three essays (one quite
>long and two short).  One of the two short essays is about Scottish
>malt whisky/whiskey/uisgebeatha.  The title essay concerns McPhee's
>sojourn, with his family, on one of the islands off the west coast
>of Scotland.  

Ever since the subject of single-malt whiskies came up, I've been thinking  
about Bill Forsyth's "Local Hero", one of my all-time favorite movies. A
forty-two-year old whisky is used to enhance the bargaining atmosphere as the
Highlanders conspire to seduce Macintyre, the American oil man, who wants to
buy their village and turn it into a refinery site.  Later at a celebratory
ceilidh the following exchange occurs between Mac and Roddy, the barman:

   Mac:   "Let's have some of that forty-two-year-old whisky, Roddy."
   Roddy:  "Oh, none o' that tonight, Mr. Macintyre."
   Mac:  "Okay, how about four eight-year-olds and a ten-year-old?"
   Roddy: "Oh aye -- that adds up!"

Obligatory book reference:  Forsyth drew a lot of inspiration for "Local
Hero" from GREENVOE, a wonderful novel by George Mackay Brown.  The plot of
GREENVOE also concerns a refinery installation, in this case on an Orkney
island; but the story is much grimmer.  

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu