HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: arocho@acsu.buffalo.edu (Vance A. Arocho)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Whites Critical of African-Americans
Date: 8 Apr 92 01:39:49 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UB

arocho@acsu.buffalo.edu (Vance A. Arocho) writes:
>ceed. I would also remind you that if you that if Clarence Thomas were liberal,
>there is no way he would have ever worked for Danforth, gotten a job in the 
>Reagan administration, and gone on to become a Supreme Court Justice. This man
>derides AA yet himself was a beneficiary of it (that's how he got into law
>school). Can you say 'hypocrisy'?

RD (Ron Dippold):
Can you say "This is what AA is so great for?"  If any black gets
uppity, you cut him off at the knees as just another AA beneficiary,
not worthy in his/her own right.

With any luck for the white supremacists, AA will continue,
reinforcing the credo of black inferiority.

***** I didn't say that Thomas is uppity, I was merely pointing out his hypo-
crisy. If not for AA he may not have been in a position to denigrate it today.
Again, politics aside, I fail to see how being a federal appeals judge for only
18 months qualifies one to sit on the Supreme Court. Bush says he doesn't sup-
port quotas but you and I both know that's bullshit. Apparently he believes 
there should be a Black conservative on this nation's Supreme Court, which was
very conservative already. But don't hold your breath for Bush or any other 
politician to call for ideological diversity for the Supreme Court. It'll never
happen.

Thomas or anyone else can be as uppity as they like, it's a free country. But 
if such an individual acts in a hypocritical manner others have the right to 
call them on it. There was a conservative/moderate Black female judge who's 
been on the bench for about 10 years that Bush could've nominated but didn't
because perhaps she is pro-choice. 

If Thomas were a liberal he never would have been nominated and if he had been 
conservatives would have attacked him, not supported and defended him during 
the hearings.

If AA = quotas then tokenism will inevitably result, IMHO. However I believe
that AA should constitute aggressively recruiting and hiring qualified minority
applicants. The company that hires such an individual may be the only one that
would even consider doing so. 

However AA is not a panacea, by any means. If AA means lowering standards then
of course notions of minority inferiority will be perpetuated. People must make
it clear what they mean when then discuss AA. 

Peace.
*****

-- 
"A young man who is a conservative has no heart; an old man who is a liberal 
has no brain." (Winston Churchill)
"Sin trabajo, no hay nada." ("Without work, there is nothing.")
Vance Arocho: arocho@acsu.edu (SUN)/V068PZYD@ubvms  (VAX)
From: arocho@acsu.buffalo.edu (Vance A. Arocho)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Whites Critical of African-Americans
Date: 5 Apr 92 21:25:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UB

In article <1992Apr5.010538.18512@intelhf.hf.intel.com> sguillo@intelhf.hf.intel.com (Stanford Guillory) writes:
]arocho@acsu.buffalo.edu (Vance A. Arocho) writes:
]>hoods. I must ask if individuals who are highly critical of African-Americans
]>would last a day in any ghetto (or any barrio, for that matter). Better yet, if
]
]Good point, Vance.  NO, they wouldn't make it in the same numbers. I have 
]talked to literally hundreds of college-aged whites, and they are constantly
]amazed at the number of people I watched die during childhood years (14). The
]people I have come in contact with, ( and I am in no way branding the entire 
					   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^	
]white race), just wouldn't have cut it in my hood. Of the thousands
 ^^^^^^^^^^
]of whites I have met, only about 5% would have made it in Northwest Houston.
]If that, I am being generous. VERY generous. Santa Claus isn't this generous.

JM (John Moore):
This sounds pretty racist to me! By implication, it is their whiteness
that makes them "weak." In fact, if they grew up in your 'hood, they
would probably survive no better or worse than anyone else - depending
on whether their parents adopted the parenting norms of the 'hood.
Drop a chinese into your neighborhood, and they'd probably do fine -
and escape from it - because mostly they DO hold onto their values of
education and hard work.

Finally, the only way to even the score would be for the white person
to be disguised as a black - otherwise survival would probably be very
short because he would be recognized as an outsider.

***** Please note that Stan was not 'branding the entire white race' as stated
above. In general, Whites live in the suburbs, a less dangerous and more secure
environment relative to any inner city. As such they would not be accustomed to
living in the inner city and would encounter numerous problems adjusting, even
if they did disguise themselves as Black. Middle- to upper-class (I'm referring
to income) Blacks would probably have problems adjusting as well. 

Regarding your assertion about the Chinese individual, he may not live long
enough to escape: he may end up being the victim of a drive-by shooting or get
caught in the crossfire of a gang war, or join a gang himself and get killed
that way. 

You may want to talk some parents in Harlem or Compton and find out 1sthand 
just how hard it is to raise children in such neighborhoods, in spite of all
their efforts to keep their kids in school and out of trouble and all their
good intentions.

Peace.
*****
-- 
"A young man who is a conservative has no heart; an old man who is a liberal 
has no brain." (Winston Churchill)
"Sin trabajo, no hay nada." ("Without work, there is nothing.")
Vance Arocho: arocho@acsu.edu (SUN)/V068PZYD@ubvms  (VAX)
From: guillory@crhc.uiuc.edu (Stanford Guillory)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Whites Critical of African-Americans
Date: 10 Apr 92 07:08:02 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: bach.crhc.uiuc.edu

rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
>No, they had others.  Skin color isn't the only possible disadvantage,
>nor the greatest one.

Given the history of Mankind, you will have a hard, HARD time
proving this one. Oh, to be able to put you in a black skin
and send you through the city.


>Certainly not crack, probably not guns, definitely booze.  But I'd
>feel as little sympathy for any of them who used drugs and didn't
>succeed as I do for those who use drugs today and don't succeed.

What if the drug abuser is 14 years old? 12? 10? 8? 6? You're
a hard man, Ron.

>>Asians have been exploited here but they were never enslaved and they always
>>managed to preserve their culture.

>Never enslaved?  Let's talk American West.

Hate to disillusion you, Ron, but chinese railroad workers were PAID
employees. There is no reasonable way you can compare thier
experience to slavery. Discrimination? Yes! Horrible working
conditions? YES! Paycheck? Yep. Freedom to leave? Yep.

>>You don't get it, do you? 

>One of my greatest ambitions is to never "get it" in the PC sense.

One of my greatest joys is racists explaining that they are
not racists, but "anti-pc".

Stanford S. Guillory
sguillor@pcocd2.intel.com
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.news-media,soc.culture.iranian,soc.rights.human,talk.politics.mideast,talk.religion.misc
From: Neil Hull <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Sexist African Males
X-To: PATTI HAYES
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 02:08:00 GMT

PH>    Yes all men are created equal BUT ALL WOMEN ARE CREATED SUPERIOR!!!!!!!

Great.  This sort of typical radical feminist thinking shows a great deal of
gender tolerance, doesn't it?

 * SLMR 2.1a * My reality check just bounced.
From: guillory@crhc.uiuc.edu (Stanford Guillory)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Whites Critical of African-Americans
Date: 10 Apr 92 06:49:40 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: bach.crhc.uiuc.edu

rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:

>in school, at work, and off-hours.  However I am not going to give an
>Affirmative Action beneficiary the same initial level of confidence

That's a shame, because every successful black person you
know is an Affirmative Action beneficiary. Every single
god-damned one. Only two explanations could explain why you
would make the above statement. You are either a racist, or
you don't even know what Affirmative Action is. My bet is
on the latter.


>that I am going to give to someone who made it without such benefits.

Yeah, and I am not going to give the same respect to a white
boy who grew up in the suburbs as I am to a real man who
survived the ghetto. I am not going to have confidence
in a man who had the benefit of not having to fear for
his life every day, and not having to watch his friend be
murdered, at least not as much confidence as I will in a man
who didn't have those benefits. See, two can play that game. Isn't
it a shame that neither you or me can be God.

>I don't see AA making blacks look inferior, I see it making the
>individual blacks who make it when AA is in place look inferior.  Even
>if they weren't a beneficiary of it.

Tell me, Ron. What is the difference between looking inferior and
being inferior? Do you treat the people who only  look 
inferior better than you do the people who really are "inferior"?
Do you even believe that human beings can be "inferior"?

>>Long before there was AA the attitude that blacks are inferior to whites
>>existed. 

>Of course.  It's good of us to reinforce that.

Yeah, it would be even better if we would forget it, huh? This
from a guy who you just know has  said, at some time in his life,
"Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it". Of 
course, some things are just too painful to remember.

>>Whites just can't face up to the
>>reality that they aren't as intellegent as they think they are.

>Sigh, it must be nice to be a minority and be able to just fire off
>racist comments without a care in the world.

You seem to be able to do it and not lose any sleep.

Stanford S. Guillory
sguillor@pcocd2.intel.com
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.african
From: steve@fulcrum.oz.au (Steve Taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Slavery (was Re: Sexist African Males)
Date: 16 Apr 92 00:27:46 GMT
Organization: The Fulcrum Consulting Group

In <1992Apr14.141119.8563@mercury.cair.du.edu> rhuffman@diana.cair.du.edu (Robert T. Huffman) writes:

>Of course numbers have nothing to do with morality.  But some posters to
>this thread have been saying that the decimation of African populations
>was the fault of Africans.  Well, it wasn't.  (But, frankly, I believe it
>was simply because they did not have the means of desturuction available
>to Europeans and Americans.

Not quite. At least for the parts of the thread I've seen, one poster has
been arguing that Africans played no part at all in the slave trade, as
such a failure of racial solidarity would be unthinkable. Other people
have been arguing against that. No one has tried to deny (or even in my
opinion, to downplay) white involvment.

But otherwise, yeah, I agree.


>Robert Huffman
>rhuffman@diana.cair.du.edu


Steve
steve@fulcrum.oz.au
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: Sexist African Males
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 17:52:13 GMT

>>>think that white people just don't want to own up and admit that THEY are
>>>responsible for enslaving Africans ! NO ONE ELSE.

>>They WERE responsible. I am NOT responsible for this. No arguments you can 
>>make can show I was responsible. No arguments can show that any living white
>>person is responsible for slavery.

>	I'll take this one step further and claim that it wasn't white
>people who were responsible for slavery, but a few individuals, their
>color having nothing to do with the morality of their actions.

And of course this brings up the question of those of us whose
recent ancestors immigrated to the USA after slavery and Jim Crow laws were
repealed.  Try as I might, I can't see where my ancestors had anything
to do with slavery, unless they kept slaves or were slaves a few
thousand years back.   Perhaps just by being white they were
automatically included in the brotherhood of overlord slaveholders? 
-- 
Preserve wildlife - stuff a spotted owl today!
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:1600 alt.politics.correct:3693
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct
Subject: Re: Sexist African Males
From: krueger@galileo.uucp (Ted Krueger)
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:12:30 MST
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson AZ

In article <1992Apr12.010909.27043@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson) writes:
>
>Where are you getting your information from ? You are making statements about
>something that you know nothing about ! Every African was at risk of being
>enslaved by the european slave traders ! I have relatives and written accounts
>in my family that talk about these kinds of things. It just angers me to
>think that white people just don't want to own up and admit that THEY are
>responsible for enslaving Africans ! NO ONE ELSE. 
>
>Dowdy Jackson

I hope that you are not saying that ALL white people are responsible 
for enslaving blacks, because I am white, and I have never enslaved 
anyone.  

And While we're at it, what would you say to this question?  When do I get 
reparations from blacks because my grandfather fought and died in the Civil 
War in order to free blacks from slavery?

That was just a hypothetical question.  One grandfather came over from 
Germany in 1912, and the other was a wheat farmer in North Dakota (no 
slaves there).

Ted

Q: How many feminists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: That's not funny.
---------- krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu ----------  
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.african
From: rhuffman@diana.cair.du.edu (Robert T. Huffman)
Subject: Re: Slavery (was Re: Sexist African Males)
Organization: University of Denver, Denver, Colorado
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 14:11:19 GMT

In article <viking.703224672@vincent1.iastate.edu> viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes:

>	As another data point, Shaka Zulu is credited with taking the Zulu
>nation from a system of ritualistic warfare, where only a few are killed
>in any battle before stopping hostilities, to over 19,000 men killed in a
>single battle.  He did this in less than ten years, partially as a result
>of a nifty new spear design he supposedly saw in a dream.  Shaka Zulu had
>never seen a white man, in case you were wondering.  Demand existed in
>both Africa and anywhere else in the world.

I don't quite see the connection between Shaka Zulu's military innovations
and the demand for slavery.

>The bottom line is that each
>group of people will enslave or otherwise subjugate others no matter what
>their race, color, or creed.

It appears you and I share a pessimistic view of humanity.

  Alexander the Great even slaughtered Greek
>Hoplite mercenaries because they happened to oppose him and fight on the
>losing side, rather than let them negotiate new contracts. 

Again, does this have something to do with slavery?

 As for
>slave numbers, I fail to see where raw numbers make for a more moral
>method of slavery.

Of course numbers have nothing to do with morality.  But some posters to
this thread have been saying that the decimation of African populations
was the fault of Africans.  Well, it wasn't.  (But, frankly, I believe it
was simply because they did not have the means of desturuction available
to Europeans and Americans.


  On the contrary, it is all wrong (at least, it is to
>us today).  Demand for slaves does not result in fulfillment unless other
>blacks are willing to sell their conquered neighbors.  Solidarity among
>the blacks could have defeated virtually any slavers you could dream of.

I don't believe this, but am not willing to argue about it since there is
no way of knowing if "black solidarity" could have defeated the slavers.

Robert Huffman
rhuffman@diana.cair.du.edu

Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: By the Time I get to Arizona...
Date: 8 Apr 92 07:06:37 GMT
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

>>But back to success.  Just what is is about the American Dream that is
>>so counter to African culture or that would require someone to give it
>>up?  Is African culture such a legacy of failure?

>     What do you mean by the question: Is African culture such a legacy of
>failure ??

I'm asking why you seem believe that preserving African culture and
heritage and the American Dream are mutually exclusive.  Does African
culture require failure as defined in today's society?  It's quite
possible to succeed in America and retain your cultural identity, as
the Italians and Jews have demonstrated, just to name a few.  So what
is it about African culture that excludes it?


-- 
Your chance of forgetting something is directly proportional to...  uh...
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,soc.culture.african
From: arocho@acsu.buffalo.edu (Vance A. Arocho)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: W.C.of AfAms
Date: 10 Apr 92 05:59:05 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UB

From: st11a@judy.uh.edu (Joseph Beasley III)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Whites Critical of African Americans

> 
>***** Some kids living in the ghetto can "just say 'NO'" for only so long be-
>fore they end up trying drugs. A kid in the 'burbs doesn't have to worry about
>this kind of thing. Are the police doing their job in the inner city? Do the 
>police even care about the people they're supposed to protect, like their 
>counterparts in the 'burbs? Does a kid in the 'burbs have to worry daily drive-
>by shootings and gangs on the street corner?
>*****
> 
Are you saying that all kids living in the "ghetto" have tried drugs during
some time in their life?  It seems that the kids in the burbs would have 
access to more money to buy drugs.  If you haven't seen gangs in the burbs of
major cities, why not visit Houston or Dallas for a weekend.

***** Note that I said 'some', not 'all'. Kids in the 'burbs probably do have
access more money to buy drugs but they are probably less likely to buy them.
As far as gangs being in the 'burbs, what type of 'burbs are we talking about?
Predominately White? Or predominately Black?

Peace. 
*****
-- 
"A young man who is a conservative has no heart; an old man who is a liberal 
has no brain." (Winston Churchill)
"Sin trabajo, no hay nada." ("Without work, there is nothing.")
Vance Arocho: arocho@acsu.edu (SUN)/V068PZYD@ubvms  (VAX)
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:1657 alt.news-media:257 soc.culture.iranian:3538 soc.rights.human:1461 talk.politics.mideast:10959 talk.religion.misc:7358
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: PROMINENT IRANIAN BAHA'I EXECUTED
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 19:52:26 GMT

In <1992Apr13.174855.3057@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:

>If I am not mistaken, the Baha'i religion originated in Iran about a 
>hundred and fifty years ago. It calls (among other things) to 
>brotherhood of all people, and is very peaceful. 

>Why are these people persecuted and killed in Iran?

>The Baha'i center is in Haifa, Israel. Could that have anything
>to do with it?

Possibly, but I'd doubt it - the Iranian govt has persecuted Baha'is
much more brutally than it has Jews.  For some reason, they have a
hatred towards Baha'i philosophy.  Maybe a militaristic state which
advocates exporting revolution throughout the Middle East feels
threatened by a group espousing pasificism, tolerance and brotherhood.

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________


Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:1556 alt.news-media:226 soc.culture.iranian:3375 soc.rights.human:1411 talk.politics.mideast:10734 talk.religion.misc:6948
From: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.news-media,soc.culture.iranian,soc.rights.human,talk.politics.mideast,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: PROMINENT IRANIAN BAHA'I EXECUTED
Date: 14 Apr 92 02:04:00 GMT
Reply-To: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago, Dept of Molecular Genetics

In article <1992Apr14.013849.12222@cco.caltech.edu>, bes@cco.caltech.edu (Behnam Sadeghi) writes:
>In article <dfs.703194746@ro> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:
>
>>Possibly, but I'd doubt it - the Iranian govt has persecuted Baha'is
>>much more brutally than it has Jews. 
>
>While Bahais have been discriminated against in Iran, Jews have enjoyed
>religious freedom and are even represented in the Parliament.

>I personally think that relatively speaking a Jew is more respected in 
>Iran than a Muslim is in the U.S.

>Behnam Sadeghi

This is your personal opinion.  Do you expect anyone else to actually 
believe this?  Please tell me you're not serious before the discussion 
of Jews in Iran becomes the topic here in t.p.m.

The information I have about Jews in Iran does not portray Iran in 
a positive light at all.

Furthermore, the statement that 'Bahais have been discriminated against'
is an serious understatement.   The correct word is persecuted.  
I have information on this as well.  

But please tell me what I can and can't say without being sentenced to
death.  

Leon Gross
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.