HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kpm@druhi.ATT.COM (Kevin Malloy (DoD #106))
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Attention Skiers Boycotting Colorado
Date: 31 Dec 92 17:46:02 GMT

in article <1992Dec30.190817.17066@spdcc.com>, rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) says:
> elections.  Since it will take about 2-5 years for CO:2 to be overturned,
> are facing having to redo 25+ years of gay rights work because you
> people didn't get it right the first time.  Sorry I'm so upset
> about this, it's only my life after all...  Thilly me.

Please, please.  I don't think that _we_ got it wrong, I think the
fundies finally found a message that played in Paonia (there's no
Peoria in Colorado).  Clearly, Colorado was a test-market for the
right-wing's latest attack against us.  They won.

Until Nov. 3rd, we'd made tremendous gains here in Colorado.  Aspen
passed it's lesbigay rights law in 197[6|8] without any big fanfare.
Boulder enacted its law by referendum in 1988 (the only jurisdiction
in the nation to _enact_ a lesbigay rights law by referendum).  Denver
passed its law in 1990 and Denver voters failed to repeal in 1991.
The Gov signed an executive order banning discrimination in the work place
in 1991.  Denver Public Schools, Boulder Valley Public Schools, the
Regional Transportation District, the University of Colorado system,
Colorado State University, and many others enacted anti-discrimination
policies.

But, yes, all this is undone because of the passage of Amendment #2.
And we have to fix this, we being Coloradans who believe in the cause
of justice and fairness, we being Americans who believe in the same.

And we have to stop the spread of this hateful thing to other states.
The fundies have put us on the defensive.  

Yes, 25+ years of lesbigay civil rights gains are on the line -- they
always have been.  Yes, CO:2 is a setback, we've had them before, but
this will, in a historical sense, be Gov. Wallace's stand at the
school-house door.  Time is on _our_ side -- we will win.  Even in
defeat, we've made tremendous gains.

[Pundit alert]

If this referendum had been held four years ago, it probably would have
passed by 20 points.  Had they tried here four years from now, it would
have gone down by a wide margin.  Why do I think this?  In Denver, in
May, 1991, a repeal of "sexual orientation" in Denver's human rights
law was defeated 45-55% (roughly 45,000 to 55,000 votes).  In 1992,
Denver voted No on 2 40-60% (roughly 81,000 to 121,000 votes).  A
tremendous gain for us.  In Ft. Collins, a 1989 referendum to enact
lesbigay rights was defeated 58-42%.  This year, Ft. Collins narrowly
voted No on 2.

We _will_ fix this.  We will need your help.  But let's not fall prey
to the blame game.  The fundies want us to do just that.  So far, it's
working.

  					    Kevin

Kevin Malloy  kevin.malloy@att.com  		  DoD #106  1991 BMW K75RT
633 E. 11th Ave.      __
Denver, CO  80203     \/   With Liberty and Justice for all, NO EXCEPTIONS
(303) 830-2937							  Un-Do #2
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: gay-positive soap opera character
Date: 28 Dec 92 23:38:41 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <JPT.92Dec28174934@telecaster.think.com> jpt@telecaster.think.com (James P. Taylor) writes:
>I have struggled with this post basically cuz I have to admit to having had
>an afternoon network soap on my tv.

Around our house, I can blame it on my boyfriend.  ;-)

>But, I was channel hopping and I was
>attracted by a very handsome late teenager. He was being complimented by
>another teenager who said [and I paraphrase] "gee.. it must have been tough
>telling everyone you were gay last year [?].  I really respect you for
>doing it."  The other lad says "It wasn't so hard.  Most people didn't
>react too badly. My father still doesn't totally accept it."  The original
>fellow says "My dad took it badly too."  [Light bulb pops above head of the
>person who was being complimented for coming out.  This guy is gay too.]
>Scene changes to something.  I switch channels.
>
>I think the soap was on ABC and around 14:00 EST.  Anyone know the soap??

It's "One Life to Live."  I'm pretty impressed too.  They did a
major plot involving the blond kid, Billy Douglas, coming out last
summer, and I was afraid they'd finish it up and let him fade away,
but they haven't. (The summer plot interleaved with an AIDS/Names
Project plot, but scrupulously avoided the "gay == AIDS" thing
while pointing out we'd carried the brunt of the pain.)

(Interestingly enough, the 'phobe father -- who is getting better
about it but was, at the time, an over-the-edge screaming hater --
is played by Jonathan Hogan; the last time I saw Hogan on stage was
playing a PWA in "As Is"...)

I was even more amazed they did this particular scene, especially
if any sort of romance, even subtle and off-camera, is in the
offing: the (het) actor who plays Billy said he didn't know how
he'd handle it if they went off in that direction.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
From: an104@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ric Helton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: GLAAD: New York Post, anti-gay editorial stance
Date: 30 Dec 1992 01:35:36 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: an104@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ric Helton)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu



NEW YORK POST: NEW LOWS

While every other city paper covered Mary Cummin's October 6th
anti-gay protest at the Board of Education (and a pro-gay
counter-protest) with balance and objectivity, the _New York
Post's_ coverage was limited to a page-2 anti-gay diatribe by
columnist Ray Kerrison: "Teachers in New York's public schools
are being tutored in how to deal with children who object to
condoms and homosexuality on moral or religious grounds."

A full-column _Post_ editorial September 29th blared,
"Recruitment No," claiming "these cirricula are oriented toward
recruitment... recruiting new converts to homosexuality... (The
idea) that kids can be taught the 'positive aspects' of
homosexual life seems... nothing short of bizarre."

While gay voices have been absent from the Op-Ed pages,
homophobes have predominated. _Post_ columnist Scott McConnell
recently blamed the porn scandal at Phillips Exeter on the
school's policies against anti-gay discrimination, asserting
"they push students -- at a particularly susceptible and
vulnerable age -- toward a sense that they would be doing the
'wrong' thing if they were to resist the overtures of a
homosexual teacher."

As ocassional good column by liberal Amy Pagnozzi in no way
"balances" this editorial/Op-Ed hate. Write:

        Peter S. Kalikow, Publisher
        _New York Post_
        210 South Street
        New York, NY 10002

Ask that openly lesbian and gay pundits such as syndicated
columnist Deb Price be hired...


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: "Anger and Regret in Aspen as Boycott Grows"
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 20:37:58 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.190512.11103@PacBell.COM>, rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams) writes:
> A front-page article in today's (12/30/92) New York Times on
> the Colorado boycott, reprinted here without permission...
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------------
[...]
> "It's a real problem," said Harley Baldwin, the owner of the
> Caribou Club..., "and we do
> understand the sentiment for the boycott.  Upon reflection,
> though, people who boycott Aspen must realize it's like
> attacking the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto because of the Nazis."

Do we have a new candidate for the defining example of "chutzpah"
here?
From: rica@cellar.org (Rica Fredrickson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Apples and oranges was Re: Why not cure homosexuality?
Date: 2 Jan 93 16:00:34 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
> learning how to *change* the situation. Gender reassignment is
> still imperfect at best, but we're learning more all the time.
> 
> In a hundred years, it may be the same for homosexuality (and, of
> course, heterosexuality). People who feel uncomfortable about
> their orientation might be able to change it at will. For that
> matter, they may be able to change their left-or-right
Mmm, I think you're comparing apples and oranges.  Changing sexual
orientation would be more analogous to changing the underlying
psychological gender identity.  Gender reassignment doesn't do that;
the premise is to help a person be comfortable with the gender
identity they already have, and when the HBIGDA standard of care is
followed it seems to do that pretty well, judging from people in
my circle of friends who've been through it.

> you. Again, this may be a good solution if your religion is
> incompatible with being a "practicing homosexual". (A better
> option is, of course, to change religions.)
I'd say religions like that certainly need changing.  An option
some of us have is to find a sex-positive, lgbo*-affirming
support/educational organization (or even a full-fledged church,
or synagogue, or *, such as the Metropolitan Community Churches)
within your religious tradition.

<demuffin>

Rica Ashby Fredrickson (rica%cellar@tredysvr.tredydev.unisys.com)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
... silence can be an extremely high price to pay for acceptance.
                                                    --Sandy Stone
None of us is free until we are all free.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Minor Crises was(long-term relationships)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 01:52:30 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.190012.13298@bsu-ucs>
d000dlphi@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (David Speakman) writes:

>In article <29DEC92.16572481@enh.nist.gov>,
>aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:

>>I guess this means you haven't reached the "What?  You
>>want to have sex again?  I'm too tired.  Didn't we just do
>>it last month?" phase yet.

In my ten grand affairs, lasting an average of 3.5 years
each, the longest 10.5 years, I never once ran into this
apparently common business of getting tired of one another
as sexual partners.  Like me, my boyfriends wanted to do it
more or less all the time, more or less any time.  Although
I finally notice some lessening of libido on my part, I
could still feature doing the wild thing a couple times a
day, I think, most days.  Nothing makes you want it like
gettin' it, I've always said.  Indeed, I think the perceived
lessening of drive in recent years is mostly an artifact of
not having regular outlets involving a suitable other or
series of others.  Regular (in the time sense) is the
operative word, as far as I'm concerned.

<> I propose we create two motss groups: soc.motss.nice, and
<> soc.motss.nasty. -- Nelson Minar (nelson@reed.edu)
<> What's the difference? -- Roger Klorese (rogerk@queernet.org)
-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)
Subject: Re: Muffin on Parade
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 15:52:29 GMT

Before I start: hi John, welcome to soc.motss.  It sounds like you've been
here for a while though.

jprigeon@hpscit.sc.hp.com (John Prigeon) writes:
>One thing about the bear code has puzzled me, though.  Does anyone really
>use e+ or e++?  IMHO, it sounds like telling someone at a bar that you're,
>oh, a millionare or dated Tom Cruise (or Wilford Brimley for the ursine 
>types), or something. 

I look at it as just another physical characteristic like h or t or w.
The interpretation you put onto it is your own.

This is really painful for me to talk about, but I'll be damned if
I'm going to be silent about it any longer.  Everybody thinks it's such
a big goddam party to have a very large penis?  Try years of embarassment
as a teenager when it decided to make its presense known during social
situtions.  Try never wearing shorts in public and avoiding PE
because you didn't want to be talked about in the showers.  Try
always having to tuck your shirttail in and carry your books at
waist level because it stuck out the top of your pants.  Try having
your feelings dismissed by people who found it easier to marginalize
you than try to understand how being physically different could
cause you to be ashamed of your own body.  Try imagining how it
feels to have people think of you as a piece of meat.

As difficult as it may be for you to imagine, most men in this
category are actually very shy about it.  No one wants to be 
picked on because their bodies are different.  It took years of 
patience by my husband to get me to see that it didn't have to be a
bad thing and that I could allow myself to have a little fun
with it.  So I'm not going to hide it so much any more.  But I don't
attach any meaning to it either.  If other people do that's
their problem.  I know it doesn't mean a goddam thing.

I'm sitting at my terminal debating on whether to post this or
abort.  I know I'm going to get flamed by morons who can't believe
that anybody would consider this to be a problem.

Fuck it.  I'm tired of remaining silent.
-- 
Brent Capps                          |        
bcapps@agora.rain.com (gay stuff)    | (B4) h t w- c+ g+ k? s-: e++ r-
bcapps@atlastele.com (telecom stuff) |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Private antidiscrimination policies in CO (was Re: Attention...)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 22:46:52 GMT

In article <1hvl47INNb8c@hp-col.col.hp.com>
smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:

>(Does this mean we're going to give calm discussion another
>chance, and stop flaming each other, or do you still want me
>to get out of your group?)

Since you've asked ...

We haven't been having a calm discussion, Walter.  We've
been listening to remarkably jejeune comments, given at a
length that astounds even me.  Let me repeat a question I
believe Melinda asked you: why are you here?

Unless you can somehow manage to raise the level of the
discourse on your side, I will cast my vote for the option
of your going away.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
From: smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: pounding the "10%" figure into the ground: Nature, 12/3/92
Date: 30 Dec 1992 16:29:29 GMT
Organization: Colorado Springs IT Center
NNTP-Posting-Host: fajita19.cs.itc.hp.com

jeff@sporty.col.oh.us (Jeff Anderson) writes:
> I agree!!!!!  Everyone should have a 3270 terminal on their desk and use
> TSO, JCL and COBOL on an IBM 370.
> 
> Have a good day!

:-)  No, no, no....everybody should have a UNIX machine on their desktop 
running x3270 emulation, so they can cut/paste their JCL out of TSO 
into unix files or email...:-)  

Walter

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.* (was Re: new newsgroup proposal:talk.politics.motss)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 20:47:08 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <BzGMqB.GBG@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:

>Perhaps the auto-moderator would *only* split crosspostings with
>*.politics.*.  Even then, I'm not sure this is preferable to personal
>hygiene.

Ah yes...but too many posters have an electronic hygiene comparable to
my great-great-uncle in Lawrence County, Kentucky.

Uncle Harry Proc last took a bath (or shower? no one knows) literally
sometime around 1978.  He is the archetype of today's mountain man, and
too many posts to soc.motss remind me of him:  smelly, dirt flaking off 
exposed body parts, and just downright rank if you're downwind.

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B5 f t w g+ k s              I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: NYC extends housing rights to gays
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:39:32 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo) writes:
 >Just heard on the radio that the New York City Human Rights Commission
 >has extended the right to inherit rental apartments to same sex
 >partners.

This has been true for a few years on the basis of court decisions.
In fact, I have a friend who benefitted from such a decision.

It was probably part of this same finding that was reported in
today's NY Times under the by-line of James C. McKinley Jr
and posted here without permission:

	In a decision that lawyers and city officials say could
	affect thousands of cooperatives in New York City, the
	city Human Rights Commission has rules that homosexuals
	have the right to inherit co-op apartments from their
	partners.

	The decision essentially extends to gay people the same
	rights of inheritance that apply to heterosexual
	spouses.  In all co-op agreements that allow
	heterosexual spouses to inherit apartments without
	being subject to the approval of the co-op board, the
	agreement must specifically spell out that gay couples
	have the same right.

	If not, the commission ruled, the co-op would be
	violating the city human rights law and could be sued
	for discrimination.  Thousands of co-ops could be
	affected, officials said.

	The Human Rights Commission interprets and enforces the
	city's anti-discrimination laws.  Bud G. Holman, the
	president of the co-operative involved in the case that
	prompted the commission's ruling, said the co-op, at 60
	Sutton Place, would appeal in court.  The ruling caps a
	two-year legal fight between the co-op board and a 54-
	year-old gay man, Harry Kirkpatrick, who was bequeathed
	an apartment that belonged to his companion, Martin
	Weiner, but was rejected by the co-op board.  Mr.
	Weiner died of AIDS in 1989.
-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Private antidiscrimination policies in CO (was Re: Attention...)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 93 13:23:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan2.012459.13360@bsu-ucs>
d000dlphi@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (David Speakman) writes:

>Your little logic challenges are about as annoying as a 
>small child who incessantly uses the question, "Why?"

Ah, but the child has potential.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Bar etiquette
Date: 4 Jan 93 01:54:40 GMT
Organization: insert anything here

nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>orc@vpnet.chi.il.us (david parsons) writes:
>[in answer to my question "how does one loiter in a bar without
>feeling self conscious about it?"]

>One thing I've been doing while in Houston is spending some time at a
>bar here called "the Briar Patch". It's a neat place: there's a piano
>that people are singing along too, mostly older men, very warm and
>friendly.

>I still don't have the bar thing down, but I had a good time here. I
>met a friendly man who chatted with me, told me all about the people
>in the bar and about other places in town. It was nice to feel welcome.

	Yup - having traveled to a fair number of cities, I have
found that the friendliest bars are the ones like you describe.
I think it's fairly logical in a way - to converse with someone you
have to 1) hear them and 2) see them.  You can't do taht with 100+ dB
of thump-thump competeing with you and light flshing on and off.

	The other thing that I've found is that if I get a bar rag
or some kind of thing that lists them, and go for the one that
isn't labeled "hot", etc. (with all the image affectations) I tend
to have a much better time --- case in point: I had the MOST fun
at a bear bust at the Dirty Duck during the .con.  If you pull out
your con.packet, you'll find that the DD had the *only* negatively worded
review for any of the bars.

	The other bars are fun if you're looking to go dancing or
see the strip show.  If "fun" means being able to interact with people,
then check out the bars that are small, have older clientele, and
where all the trendy type say NOT to go.

	Now don't take what I'm saying to mean that you can't also cruise
and be cruised by people at these places, or find quite a diverse group
or folks.  You *will* that's the other benefit --- so if you're
looking to meet a retired Oxford professor of English, or a surfer
who is into quantum mechanics, or just a bunch of people to play darts
for a few hours [*], go for it.

BBC

[*]  WHY!!!  WHY are there no dart boards in any of the Boston bars!
Darts are better than pool because 1) more people play simultaneously,
2) you can be on a team with the guy you want to meet, 3) I'm way
better at darts than pool.   I've gone into Apollo's in Phoenix at 1PM on
a Tuesday afternoon and within 45 seconds been asked to join a group
of dart players - I had 2 hours to kill, and it was a great way to do it.
(Ditto - for the Venture'N in Tucson which is QUITE cruisy! --- they 
need hot tubs in their patio --- it's large enuf for them!)

	If anyone knows of one - let me know... (I'm talking the plastic
darts BTW, I don't want to get any piercings inadvertant or not at the
present time, thanks...)
From: Cread@Fwva.Saic.Com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: long-term relationships...success stories, please...
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:18:58 GMT
Organization: Science Applications Int'l, Corp. - Computer systems operation

>
>Seven years and counting.
>--
 
Seven on New Years Day and counting, as well!  Congrats!
(Ever notice how comfortable it feels and easier it keeps getting?)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: long-term relationships...success stories, please...
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 15:58:52 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <C02Dxt.JHM@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:

>mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser) writes:
>>In the South, just substitute "Krystal" or "Po' Folks" for "White
>>Castle" and you get precisely the same response (although IMHO a
>>Krystal and White Castle _are_ the same burger :-).

>Now, Mike...why pick on 'lil 'ol Po' Folks when there's
>a Waffle House as close as your nearest freeway exit?

>Or maybe two?


Because Po'Krystal'Folks gets a groan when I mention them -- but the
phrase "Waffle House" are take-un ta bee fightin' wurds.

(Gawd, I just _hate_ trying to type Suthun -- makes me look like I'm
about as literate as a cypress stump. :-)

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B5 f t w g+ k s              I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================