From: stoesser@i31s21.ira.uka.de (Achim Stoesser)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: God's Family Values
Date: 19 Aug 1992 12:37:43 GMT
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, FRG
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: i31s21.ira.uka.de

(See end of article for misc.kids related information)

In article <1992Aug17.165539.22982@pony.Ingres.COM>, dan@Ingres.COM (Daniel J. Dick) writes:
|> stoesser@i31s22.ira.uka.de (Achim Stoesser) writes:
|> : Parts relevant to the Newsgroup are marked (*).
|> : . . .
|> : Oops, what bibles do you have? Mine say (among others) that homosexuals,
|> : witches (Ex 22:18 / Lev 20:13), and children (*) who disobey their parents
|> : (Deut 21:18--21, Ex 21:17, Lev 20:9, Mt 15:4) have to be killed.
|> : 
|> : That's not exactly what I'd call "preferring" or "refusing to support."
|> : 
|> 
|> Achim, are you aware that your statement is false and amounts to slander of
|> the whole of christianity? 

No. First, the OT is part of all bibles (all I know).  You deleted the part
I was referring to where you said, "The Bible ... says nothing to indicate
that people are to go out and hate, kill, and bash one another." It does, for
example in the parts mentioned above (and hundreds of others). Second,
Mt is in the NT. Here Jesus says that you have to hate your children (among
others) if you want to become his disciple. Third, Jesus says in the NT that 
he has come to "fulfill the law," which means that he accepts at least these
parts of the OT called "the law" -- Ex and Lev, for example, if I remember right.
Forth, when I was I child, I was member of a Christian sect (Roman Catholic, if
anyone cares) and I was taught the Ten Commandments -- aren't they part of
the OT? 

So get out the OT of your Bibles and we can move on to another point.

                              I do not wish to burn up "misc.kids" bandwidth
|> with any more religious discussions than I've already participated in, but
|> for the sake of those publicly injured, this wrong must be corrected!

_Who_ was injured?

|> Old Testament scriptures deal with Old Testament times.  People often burned
|> their own children and sacrificed virgins on the alters of false Gods.  One

People also sacrificed their children on the altar of your biblical god
(didn't you read all of your bible or is this selective memory?).

...
|> bring others into salvation.  In John 8, when approached by the religious
|> leaders of the day with a woman caught in adultery ready to be stoned, He
|> asked that the one of them without sin cast the first stone.

Did _he_ throw the first stone? According to your teachings he was without sin,
if I remember right. Although it was good luck for the woman that his (sinless)
mother wasn't present, I guess?

|> In short, nothing whatsoever in scripture commands us to run out and kill
|> witches and homosexuals and adulterers and those who disrespect their
|> parents. 

Again this is not true. The OT is _part_ of your scriptures, no matter how often
you deny it.

...
|> : 
|> : I'm an anarchist, atheist, pacifist, and vegetarian.  This does _not_
|> : mean that I'd bomb kings, worship Satan, let soldiers bleed to death,
|> : or eat fish.
|> 
|> Achim, I never said or implied so.

Daniel, I never said or implied so. (It's just one of my favorite sigs, but I'll
use another one this time.)

Ob.misc.kids:
You may believe in unicorns, Jesus, Mickey Mouse, or demons, but as soon as 
children are involved, I use to get very angry. If, for example, elementary
school kids have nightmares and can't sleep at night, because their teacher
showed them pictures of children chained and tortured by demons in hell because
they "sinned," this is a point where I really have to remind myself that I'm
pacifist (in Germany, there are religious "education" lessons in school according
to the constitution, and this is not a fictive example).

                                                            Achim
_________________________________________________________________

I'm an anarchist, atheist, pacifist, and vegetarian. Just say NO!

Newsgroups: misc.kids