From: mjmh@crsa.bu.edu (Michael J M Holmes)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: God and Science:  The Ramblings of The Nightstalker
Date: 20 Nov 92 21:32:52 GMT
Organization: Boston University Center for Remote Sensing

In article <1ehjm9INNjma@phakt.usc.edu> pechever@phakt.usc.edu (Paul Echeverri) writes:
>Impu-Sebek trudges in the door...strange, you didn't see him leave.  He 
>looks awfully weary, and he has good reason: 2.5 hours of sleep last night
>in misguided preparation for a debate class.  Well, it paid off, the debate
>went well, and here he is in Callahan's.  A spiderweb of silver chains flies
>through the air, gently draping itself over Mike's head.
>"Hot cocoa, Mike.  Keep 'em coming till someone passes out."
>As he slumps he catches a fragment of conversation from his friend /*:

  [edited for space!]

"Congratulations on the debate!  And it seems to me you're still
in <Dan Rather voice on> Debate Mode  <Dan Rather voice off>."
/* smiles, because he almost always enjoys discussions.

>Yawning mightily, Impu-Sebek manages to say, "I think I'll take exception to 
>that, /*.  Love is always conditional.  Let's have an example:
>	"You have a SO.  Sie is basically your ideal (I'll take the liberty of
>	 defining 'ideal' as the sociologically predominant type:  Tender,
>	 thoughtful, sensitive, gorgeous, great cook...your ideal might be nine
>	 feet tall, hairy, bazooka-toting, and nicknamed 'snake', but you
>	 get the essential concept).  You love your SO.  Sie loves you.
>	 Dandy up till now:  Sie avoids you, boffs other people on YOUR
>	 couch, becomes slatternly, etc.  Would you still love hir?
>	 Most people wouldn't.  So we see love is contingent upon certain
>	 personality aspects of the loved one, which are supposed to remain
>	 relatively constant.  So that's a condition, and (I daresay) a nearly
>	 universal one.

"I don't take exception to your disagreement.  I didn't necessarily
expand on what I meant - I just sort of dropped the bomb, so to speak!"

"I tend to separate loving someone from 'being *in* love' with someone.
So, for me, love is something that extends to family, friends, as well
as SO's.  Plus, I end up 'in love' with my SO."

/* pauses a moment, because right now any SO in his life is strictly
hypothetical!

"In the case you mention, I would feel hurt and angry, absolutely!  But
I've often been angry with my mother, hurt by my brother, etc - yet I
*still* loved them!  With this rather unpleasant SO that you mention,
I would *immediately* reevaluate the relationship, probably plummet out 
of love, but probably retain 'love' in the wider sense.  With such
strong emotional ties, I don't thing I could (or have ever been able to)
lose the broader feeling of love for someone I once was 'in love' with."

"It still seems to me that if you expect or need something from someone
in order to love them, it isn't really love - rather something
selfish, possessive, or self-centered."

>"Of course, you did specify that this definition of love as unconditional is
>yours, personally, so feel free to ignore me on this, but I just thought I'd
>blurt it out.  Here, have some plums."
>He draws some very large, very fresh plums from the inner pocket of his
>dark green trenchcoat and hands them to /*.

/* takes the plums.  "Thanks!  You're right, it is just my definition - 
but its the only one I personally have been able to work with in my life.
It may not work for other people; then again, this could all be just a 
matter of semantics."

>He sips at a mug of steaming cocoa, then settles off to slumber, wrapping
>himself in his trenchcoat.  The baliset rests quietly between his legs.  
>Mike shrugs, and puts the cocoa pot on the hot plate, to keep it warm.

"Enjoy your rest - you shouldn't push yourself too hard!"








-- 
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Mike Holmes       mjmh@crsa.bu.edu           "Happiness Will Prevail!"
Boston University Department of Geography (a truly GREAT place to work!)
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Newsgroups: alt.callahans