HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: esprit@netcom.com (Alan F. Perry)
Subject: Re: Driver-owned teams; are they the best?
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 03:05:32 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1147@racerx.bridge.COM> james@Bridge.COM (James Montebello) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.015631.8313@dracut.keps.kodak.com> rbt@dracut.keps.kodak.com (Bob Tufts) writes:
>>In article <1144@racerx.bridge.COM> james@Bridge.COM (James Montebello) writes:
>>> Colin Chapman never raced cars of his own construction; so, no, Lotus
>>> is not on this list. 
>>How do you think Lotus got started? While I don't believe Chapman ever
>>drove (in a race ) any of his F1 cars, he certainly drove his early
>>trials cars, and I believe Lotus XI. 
>
>It near ceases to amaze me how many people will jump on a minor fluff
>like this. There's been, what, three or four followups like this. 
>The original post specifically asked about F1, so, NO, COLIN CHAPMAN
>NEVER DROVE ANY CARS OF HIS OWN CONSTRUCTION AS FAR AS THE REPLY WAS
>CONCERNED SINCE IT WAS SPECIFICALLY ABOUT F1 ONLY. geez. You guys 
>ever heard of mail? :-)

Yes, I have heard of mail.

However, your remarks did injury to the memory of one of the greatest
figures in auto racing history.  Someone unfamiliar with the topic might have
read your remarks and figure that Chapman just designed cars or ran a team
or something.

You should have written "raced F1 cars of his own construction."

alan

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: eriseman@dw3f.ess.harris.com (Eric Riseman)
Subject: Mitsubishi 3000GT-SL
Reply-To: eriseman@dw3f.ess.harris.com (Eric Riseman)
Organization: Harris GISD
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:58:46 GMT

What has anyone heard about the Mitsubishi 3000GT-SL?  

Is it mechanically reliable? How's its performance? Is it well
constructed? is it Overpriced?
Finally, How does it stack up against similar sports cars in its class?

Thanks in Advance..........
ESR
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis)
Subject: Re: Senna in 1993
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:20:58 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <93845@bu.edu> nicos@cs.bu.edu (Nicos Kontopoulos) writes:
>Where did you people hear that Senna said he'd drive for Williams
>for free?
>What I heard was that Senna turned down Ferrari's offer of $25M
>
>Or did I misunderstand?

Spot the subtle distinction:
        Senna would drive a Williams for free.
                            ^^^^^^^^
        Senna won't drive a Ferrari  for $25M.
                            ^^^^^^^
-- 
John Francis                                johnf@apollo.hp.com
The world can be divided into two classes :-
 those who divide people into two classes, and those who don't.
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Sennas $0.00 offer
Date: 17 Aug 92 09:23:41 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre
Originator: netnews@uts.mcc.ac.uk

In article <1992Aug17.113711.12722@phillip.edu.au> t9014143@phillip.edu.au writes:

>Can anyone confirm what James Hunt said at Hungary about Senna offering his
>services to Williams next year for free.

>No salary seems an unbelievable statement for an driver the calibre of Senna.
>But under consideration he wants another championship badly and the records
>that may come with this(most wins in a season for example).

Could be a mistake......Williams didn't get the championship last year, no 
particular reason they should next year.....one of the other teams is bound 
to improve the car over the winter and we don't know how much more Williams 
can get out of their equipment.....

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|           It all depends on the size of your ham sandwich           |
|  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England   (44)061-275-6033  |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: brims@bnkl01.astro.ucla.edu (George Brims)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Winning F1 at Hungary
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:22:10 GMT
Organization: UCLA Dept of Astronomy

In article <1992Aug17.161209.9770@rdg.dec.com> winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:
>  The way Berger set up Mansell and caught him napping was masterful.
>
>--PSW

This is drivel. Mansell made a bad mistake and Berger was alert. That's what
he's paid to be, and any  of the other top six drivers would have jumped by in
exactly the same way, particularly Mansell himself had the situation been
reversed, or Senna. A lot of the back markers would have had a go too but
would probably have turned it into a shunt. There was no question of Berger
"setting up" Mansell.

George Brims

Brundle for next British WC!!!
From: pete@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Driver-owned teams; are they the best?
Date: 18 Aug 92 12:56:21 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Michael Hui (myhui@bnr.ca) wrote:
: I'm not too up on my F1 history, but has there ever been a mildly
: succesful driver-owned team contesting in F1? Ever?
: Lotus? Nahhhh ...

Brabham, and McLaren! -- Sir Jack Brabham drove his own cars from 1962 to
1970, and Bruce McLaren drove his own cars from 1966 to 70.

_Unsuccessful_ driver-owned F1 teams - well, Merzario comes to mind... 

: Michael MY Hui  myhui@bnr.ca  Ottawa Canada

pete
--
*Peter Fenelon -- Research Associate -- Software Safety Assessment Procedures*
Dept. of Computer Science, University of York, York, Y01 5DD (+44/0)904 433388
EMAIL: pete@minster.york.ac.uk `There's no room for enigmas in built up areas'
From: boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Hungary etc
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:24:04 GMT
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server

>The comment about the computer changing up too early sounds like Mansell
>trying to blame the equipment for his own failings.

These were the ESPN comments during the replay, not Mansells.  Can't blame him
for this one.

************************************************
* Donald Boell - Hewlett Packard               *
*                                              *
* When you're chewing on life's gristle        *
* Don't grumble, give a whistle - Monty Python *
*                                 Life of Brian*
************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: roberts@syacus.acus.oz.au (Robert Salier)
Subject: McLaren's newfound speed
Organization: ACUS Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Sydney
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 23:17:51 GMT



>No, Senna DID have more speed.  He pretty well dogged it around the rest
>of the course and focussed everything on getting a super launch out of
>the last turn.  Naturally, he carried those extra revs (plus driving
>down the dirty side of the course whenever Nige was at all close) to
>hold his lead.  That was the whole contest between Mansell and Senna
>yesterday: who can get the best launch out of that turn.  The result was
>a draw which left the leader in front.

Here's another theory:

I wouldn't put it past Honda/McLaren to give Berger and Senna unequal
cars, but perhaps Senna was running less wing.  On a circuit where the
only real passing opportunity is at the end of the main straight, this
may well have made good sense.  Senna would trade a little grip in the
turns where Mansell would find it hard to get past anyway.

It wouldn't surprise me if the jungle-juice regs made a difference too.
I think we are close to the end of the Renault dominance - if Honda
remain in F1.

Robert
From: Stuart_Laing@kcbbs.gen.nz (Stuart Laing)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: land speed record
Date: 13 Aug 92 01:55:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: kcbbs.6949.2259224470
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

Ok guys if we are talking about records set in the 70's where does
Richard Noble fit in as I remember that he broke some land speed record
and don't he get a knighthood for it. Yes he is a Pom so that may be the
reason you missed him out Cannonball.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: yhcrana@intelhf.hf.intel.com (Karl Brown)
Subject: Another Fiat Question
Organization: Intel Corp., Hillsboro, Oregon
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 20:14:02 GMT

I just purchased a 1980 Fiat Spider 2000, and noticed that the right
rear back-up light was not working.  I checked all the fuses and
replaced the bulb, but it still does not work.  Does anyone have any
idea of what else I can check?  Thanks!

                                        Karl

-- 
yhcrana@hfglobe.intel.com          | "I am as free as nature first made man
-----------------------------------|  Ere the base laws of servitude began
 "Do or do not.  There is no try." |  When wild in woods the noble savage ran"
From: Robert.Hartill@cm.cf.ac.uk (Hmmm)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: On Board Cameras
Date: 19 Aug 92 12:23:50 GMT
Organization: Shabby

Richard Beckett writes:
|> 
|> 	I don't understand. Why do they go to all the trouble of fitting
|> 	On Board Cameras to several cars in different positions, and 
|> 	imposing an extra weight limit for those without one, when in a 
|> 	2 hour GP all you see is a quick few seconds glimpse through them ?
|> 

I like the on board camera shots. I particularly liked the 
shot of Mansell taking Berger on the straight in Hungury.

I'd like to see a lap from two cars simultaneously. 
e.g. a split screen showing the camera picture from the
cars of say Mansell & Senna.

Synchronise the pictures so they both start on the start/finish line
then we can compare speed and driving styles.


--
    ____Robert Hartill, Dept Of Computing Mathematics, UWCC, Cardiff, UK.____
    \______e-mail : rhl@cm.cf.ac.uk _________ Fax : +44 (0)222 666182_______/
 It's a recession when your neighbour loses his job: it's a depression when you
		    lose yours.     - Harry S Truman ~1958.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: welty@balltown.cma.com (richard welty)
Subject: history question -- Ontario Motor Speedway
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:15:14 GMT

i've been wondering about this a little while now; perhaps one
of our resident motorsport historians can give us an answer.

Ontario Motor Speedway in California was a copy (more or less) of
Indy; both indy cars and Nascar stockers ran there.  can anyone give
a brief description of the history of the track?  when was it built,
how long did major series run there, and ultimately what led to its
demise (and when was it shut down?)  does it still exist?

thanks,
  richard
-- 
richard welty                            518-393-7228
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
  ``if you can read this, mario, you're too close''
    -- bumper sticker seen on a CART safety truck
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Hungarian GP
From: tfarmer@datamark.co.nz (Thomas Farmer)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 01:17:40 GMT
Organization: Datamark International Ltd.

In article <1992Aug16.224815.29756@sequent.com> dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller) writes:

>I wonder if Nige and Gerhard will be speaking.  Berger, for my tastes,
>tried a little TOO hard to squeeze nige on the two times Nige passed him.

I would tend to agree with you there. I thought it was interesting
that Mansell had a better chance of passing Berger than Senna - he
seemed to have more speed.

Anyone else think it was the best race of the season so far? (Although
I think I missed a couple.)

Amazing to see the *instant* loss of control when Schumachers tail
went. Wow.

I may not like Mansell much, but I have to admit that he deserved to
get the championship.

-- 
    Thomas Farmer | tfarmer@datamark.co.nz    or | Amiga 2.04, AIX 3.1
Datamark Intl Ltd | tfarmer@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz | Win 3.1, OS/2 2.0
 Technical Writer | 			Vote MMP!
    & PC Wrangler | If I had something witty to say I'd put it here.
From: bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1 Tracks for Passing
Date: 22 Aug 92 13:32:26 GMT
Organization: School of Biological Sciences, University of Bath, UK

In article <1992Aug21.173016.6643@rdg.dec.com> winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:
>
>In article <bjilek.714349211@trojan>, bjilek@convex.com (Brian Jilek) writes:
>
>|>	High banking is an interesting idea for F1. I can see the engineers
>|>scratching their heads now!
>
>It was tried at Monza off and on in the 1950s.  The 10km Monza circuit
>consisted of one turn around the current circuit, then going around the
>banked oval portion to complete the lap.  The banked oval portion was
>dropped because of problems with tire wear and driver/car/spectator
>safety.  Now this was in the days before wings and wide tires, so it
>might be different today.

The spectators were pretty safe as I don't think they were allowed around 
by the banked section. Its just that when you went over the wall on the 
top of the banking, you were into the treetops.  When I went to Monza, I 
thought that they must have let the track surface decay over the years.  
The concrete was rough and uneven and the expansion joints were substantial. 
There were little platforms on the wall at the top of the banking for the 
marshalls to stand on. Definitely pre-Jackie Stewart!

Then, a couple of years ago I saw a film based on Formula One in the late 
50's, and the surface on the banking looked just as bad.  The film had a 
plot that made Days of Thunder look like an arthouse movie, but the 
pictures around the Monza banking were great.  

			Andrew  Henry
Sempre  Gilles					bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
From: glenn@misty.boeing.com (Glenn Cirlincione)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: John Watson (was Re: Mansell out ? [was Re: VNS: Mon 17-Aug-1992]
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:54:26 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane BCS Support

John Watson twice that season came from very far back in the pack to win
the race (though the specific races escape me - Detroit and ??).

Indeed, Prost is 37 (born in 1955) while Mansell is a year or two older.

Glenn
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: gbg@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (gerald.b.green)
Subject: Re: Land Speed Record
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:30:56 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.165134.21567@keps.kodak.com> pz@keps.kodak.com (Paul Czarnecki) writes:
>In article <l8i35pINNncp@news.bbn.com> tdonahue@BBN.COM (Tim Donahue) writes:
>>Hal Needham's "Budweiser Rocket" probably reached the highest top speed
>>(reportedly clocked by USAF radar at over 720 MPH), but failed to make a
>>return run within the 1-hour time limit imposed by the FIA.  Ergo, no
>>record.
>
>This car had a Sidewinder missle attached.  It was of course used for
>additional thrust.  Hal was a little bemused by the fact he had a
>missle mounted inches from his helmet.

I don't remember whether or not Hal did any of the testing in the
car (I thought he just owned it), but the "record" attempts had
Stan Barrett (sp?) as the "pilot". This seem eminently more applicable
than "driver", especially as as he was allegedly (barely) airborn for
approximately 100-200 yards from the shock wave of breaking the
the sound barrier. I don't remember if this was ever refuted, but
I do remember TV pictures of the nosewheel tire tracks disappearing
and then reappearing down the run a bit.

Gerry Green
UNIX System Laboratories
gerry@usl.com
From: smithr@teecs.UUCP (Robert Smith)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 19:40:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Driver-owned teams; are they the best?
Organization: Litton Systems, Toronto ONT
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport

Frank Williams must have changed if he's a p***k now. A friend of mine
worked with the Williams team as pit crew in the early 70's and he had
nothing but good words for Frank Williams. That was in the early days
when Williams was struggling (before the Saudia-Williams combo gave Frank
some money to play with) but people have changed before.

Bob.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: esprit@netcom.com (Alan F. Perry)
Subject: Re: Driver-owned teams; are they the best?
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 16:14:20 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Aug18.031527.13944@bmerh85.bnr.ca> myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui) writes:
>In article <z09mngn.esprit@netcom.com> esprit@netcom.com (Alan F. Perry) writes:
>>No, once you get on Team Willy's bad side, you might as well kiss it off.
>>Well, except for Nigel.
>>Actually, I hope that Team Willy gives in on Nigel's demands for $23M, then
>>Nigel says, "No, thanks" anyway.  Nigel can live pretty comfortably with
>>the money he has got.
>
>What? And flog around midfield next year while Senna leads from start
>to finish every single race in a Renault-Williams?

No, I was actually suggesting that Nigel spend the next season watching the
races from St. Pete (where his house is).  He got his Championship; now he
can retire.

alan
From: wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (David Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Driver-owned teams; are they the best?
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:43:14 GMT
Organization: Schlumberger CAD/CAM; Ann Arbor, Michigan (USA)

In article <78560008@teecs.UUCP> smithr@teecs.UUCP (Robert Smith) writes:
>Frank Williams must have changed if he's a p***k now. A friend of mine
>worked with the Williams team as pit crew in the early 70's and he had
>nothing but good words for Frank Williams. That was in the early days
>when Williams was struggling (before the Saudia-Williams combo gave Frank
>some money to play with) but people have changed before.

Some of Frank's recent comments in post-race interviews have certainly
seemed "cold", to say the least.  However, I think we should consider his
situation before judging him too harshly.

How many of us can imagine what his life must be like, since the crash
that paralyzed him?  He was an avid runner, I've heard, in excellent
physical condition.  Now he is wasting away to nothing.  He has not only
kept his team going, but gone on to even greater success, by sheer force
of will and his own intellect.  Think of the pressure (and fear) he must
feel -- if the team declines, what else does he have?  I suspect that his
entire self-esteem is rather heavily invested in the team winning.

He doesn't even have the outlet of physical activity to deal with stress.
It's all to easy to criticize him, and say he should be a "nice" guy.
I'm not claiming he IS a nice guy.  I just think it is at least under-
standable that he may be too afraid of what he'll be left with when the
inevitable decline comes, to feel he can afford to be nice.  I feel sorry
for what's happened to him, and I respect what he has accomplished. (Even
if I wouldn't like to work for someone like him.)

Dave Wilson
From: gmc@HELIX.NIH.GOV ("Gordon M. Charrick")
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Recommendations for a used sporty car
Date: 17 Aug 92 12:39:37 GMT

Hello everyone,

I'm starting to think about getting a used car to replace my current six
year old one. I want something sporty but it can't be a sports car per se
because my insurance company (Erie) won't cover sports cars and I do not
want to switch companies. Anyway, I've been thinking of getting a Toyota
Celica GTS maybe up to 3 years old. I was wondering what kind of experience
anyone out there who has one has had with theirs and would they recommend
getting a used one. I'd also like ideas for other cars to look at. Oh, by
the way, I'm looking for a stick shift if that makes any difference. I
figure I can afford up to $10,000 for the car and I'd like something no
more than four years old. I'd appreciate any opinions I can get on this
one.


                                          Thanks,

                                              Gordon

--
Gordon Charrick [n4ytx]                301-496-4823    ____
gmc@helix.nih.gov                                      \  /
Nat'l Inst. of Health, Bethesda, MD                     \/
From: jmck@druhi.ATT.COM (McKenzieJD)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: TV Coverage of Michigan Winston Cup Race ???
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:52:57 GMT
Distribution: rec

I need to find out who is televising the Champion Spark Plug 400 at 
Michigan this Sunday and when coverage starts. If someone knows please email
me this information. Thanks.

						Jeff McKenzie
						jmck@druhi.ATT.COM
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: esprit@netcom.com (Alan F. Perry)
Subject: Re: Hungarian GP
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 00:49:19 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Aug17.234207.11694@bmerh85.bnr.ca> myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.132532.26089@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> duane@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (duane.galensky) writes:
>>closer (recognizing that patrese was still out in front with
>>a commanding lead for a while there...let's face it, the
>>guy was desparate)
>
>I do not agree with your last sentence.
>
>Patresse demonstrated that he was as good as Mansell. That's why he was way
>out in front. It's just that he's a wee bit less consistent than Mansell.
>
>Of course, he would have assured himself a job next season if only he had won.

You mean, like Thierry Boutsen.  He won the Hungarian GP for Williams
a couple years ago.  What was his reward from the team?  When he returned
to the team motorhome after the podium ceremony and the post-race interview,
the team had already taken the celebration elsewhere.  At the end of the
season, Boutsen was still out of a job.

No, once you get on Team Willy's bad side, you might as well kiss it off.
Well, except for Nigel.

Actually, I hope that Team Willy gives in on Nigel's demands for $23M, then
Nigel says, "No, thanks" anyway.  Nigel can live pretty comfortably with
the money he has got.

alan

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller)
Subject: Re: Wanna see some sprint car racing.
Keywords: dirt, sprint
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Distribution: ne
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 04:03:52 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.153524.4349@engage.pko.dec.com> mental@cntrol.enet.dec.com (ken mental) writes:
>
>
>	Does anybody know of any dirt tracks in MA/NH that run 
>	World of Outlaw type sprint cars? Is there anything within a 
>	few hours drive of Boston?
>
>	They're all over the place in Ohio, but I haven't run across any 
>	up here yet.
>
>	
>	Thanks!
>	/ken
>
>
>
>--
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ken Mental				
>mental@cntrol.enet.dec.com		Fahrvergnugen = DriveOn3Wheels
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Lemme see here.

The industry reference is the National Speedway Directory, 
PO Box 448, Comstock Park, MI  48321, (616) 361-6229.  Costs $9.00
per copy and an excellent resource for info on tracks.

There are no listings for sprinters in MA.  The two tracks listed
are Riverside Park Speedway in Agawam (1/4 mile high banked asphalt)
and Seekonk Speedway, (1/3rd mile semi-banked asphalt).

They run Mods and Stockers.

NH has a number of tracks, none of which run sprints explicitly.

Caanan USA Speedway in Caanan (1/4 mile dirt)
Claremont Speedwa (1/3rd mile, asphalt)
Hudson Speedway (1/4 mile, asphalt)
Lee USA Speedway (3/8 mile, asphalt)
Monadock Speedway (Winchester, 1/4 mile asphalt)
Nor-Way Pines Raceway (Wentworth, 1/4 mile, clay)
Riverside Speedway (Groveton, 1/4 mile, asphalt)
Star Speedway (Epping, 1/4 mile asphalt)

Call them all and ask.  Many tracks (particularly dirt tracks) book
sprinters for special shows.  

The best sprinters on the East Coat are in Pennsylvania and West Virginia
in coal country.  It's worth the trip.  Write me if you want details.
-- 
Dave Fuller		 	All opinions expressed are my own and not
Sequent Computer Systems	those of Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
dafuller@sequent.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport