HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aa704@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jennifer Engel)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: Where are all the lesbians???
Date: 24 Jan 1993 05:14:24 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aa704@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jennifer Engel)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


>> 
>> Would someone please tell me where lesbians post in this
>> maze of a BB?  I looked under soc.motss, but it's mostly male.
>> Is there something in the alt. file that I'm just not seeing?
>> 


there are a number of queer related and even specifically lesbian related
mailing lists floating around. ihave a most certainly outdated list of
lists, if anyone is interested i will try and find it.

-- 
Claude Debussy:
"Music is the space between the notes."
Xref: sparky alt.homosexual:646 alt.politics.homosexuality:10032 soc.history:10900
From: K.M.Hetherington@bradford.ac.uk (KM HETHERINGTON)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual,alt.politics.homosexuality,soc.history
Subject: Re: Homosexual Nazis?
Date: 22 Jan 93 16:34:18 GMT
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Originator: 92129050@mail
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

There's an interesting bit in "Mein Kampf" where Hitler is describing his
teenage years. I will have to paraphrase, as I don't have a copy to hand.
He was talking about why he liked a particular school he was sent to on
account of all the "Husky boys" there and points out that this interest
seriously worried his mother!

I'll try and root out the exact quote at some point, but it makes very
interesting reading and as for the inplications...
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: moselecw@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (moz [chris moseley])
Subject: Re: beat em back
Organization: Electrical Engineering, University of Canterbury, New Zealand
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 06:59:26 GMT

 org4688@zeus.tamu.edu (GARCIA, OSCAR RENE) writes:
> Besides, this is a homosexual net and I don't go around shoving my sexuality
do you mean it only talks to other nets of the same gender??

> or bashing yours on any other net, or even this one.  If I can respect your
> sexuality, then I have a right to expect the same courtesy from you.
?? maybe, but she also has the "right" not to give you that courtesy. Sounds
more like you are demanding it than asking for it though.

>  This 
> system is set up for mature communication,
oh, I thought it was so people could talk to each other however they wished.
But since you set it up for "mature communication" please enlighten us with
your definition of same.

> not for people like you to display
> your insecurities or hostilities.  So quit your whining and stay off this net
> until you acquire enough brain cells to make a meaningful contribution .
not that this is a hostile letter that you have written, or that you display
any obvious insecurities yourself.

Would it not be better if both of you stayed on the USENET and read this
group until you feel more comfortable posting to it??

moz
From: jp@moscom.com (Jim Palmeri)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: Beat 'Em Back In The Closet!
Date: 22 Jan 93 00:27:09 GMT
Organization: Moscom Corporation, Pittsford NY

In article <1993Jan19.143606.4298@vax.cns.muskingum.edu> ch_hayhurst@vax.cns.muskingum.edu writes:

Some jerk from Muskingum College wrote a bunch of ignorant stuff that I deleted,
plus this additional tripe:

>I hope you goddamn fags die of AIDS!!!
>
>Beat them back in the closet!!
>
>Goddamn sick bastards!
>
>Good-bye, I think I'm going to go get laid by a member of the opposite sex now.
>What a strange concept, huh?

I think it is fair to say that normal, sane readers of this group,
both heterosexual and homosexual, know who the really sick jerk is.

It never ceases to amaze me to see to what extent a jerk like that
goes out of his or her way to demonstrate publicly at how sick in the
mind they really are.  

I wonder if that jerk realizes that the vast majority of heterosexual
people think of him or her as more of an ignorant idiot than even homosexual
people do?

Probably not.  From the content of his or her post, it is easy to assume
that he or she doesn't have a big enough brain to realize much of
anything that that approaches reality.
-- 
Jim P.   (jp@moscom.com)
From: aa704@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jennifer Engel)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: Correlations...
Date: 28 Jan 1993 04:39:47 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aa704@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jennifer Engel)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.EDU (Christopher R. Dunlea) says:

>
>Please excuse my ignorance, but what is the thing gay men "have with Judy
>Garland and the Wizard of Oz"? What had Judy's death to do with Stonewall?
>
>Would some kind soul e-mail a response?
>


or post one so i can read it too?
-- 
Claude Debussy:
"Music is the space between the notes."
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: nwhite@crc.ac.uk (Nick White)
Subject: Re: Beat 'Em Back In The Closet!
Summary: What a postmaster!
Organization: MRC Human Genome Resource Centre
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 09:35:30 GMT

The eloquent  words of ch_hayhurst@vax.cns.muskingum.edu follow.....

> >I hope you goddamn fags die of AIDS!!!
> >
> >Beat them back in the closet!!
> >
> >Goddamn sick bastards!
> >
> >Good-bye, I think I'm going to go get laid by a member of the opposite sex  

I've just had a reply from the postmaster at Muskingum and by the sounds
of it ch_hayhurst is going to get well and truly beaten in HIS closet!

Just goes to show that writing to the postmaster can do the trick and get
bigots like this of the net.


   ***************       Nick J White,  University of Cambridge,
   *  painting   *       Haematological Medicine, Hills Road,
   *    the      *       Cambridge CB2 2QH, United Kingdom.
   *    lab      *      
   *    pink     *       Internet :  njw@lmb.mrc.cam.ac.uk
   ***************       Telephone:  0233 330561
                     
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: cgoldman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Charles Goldman)
Subject: Security Clearances for Civillians
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 17:55:33 GMT

The recent post on Clinton's promise about opening the military led me
to think that I haven't heard any recent talk about gay civillians 
getting security clearances.  Does anyone have any recent information?

There were a few individuals in the Stanford area that succeeded in
getting clearance after long struggles during 1991-92, but no
general policy emerged.

Charles
From: org4688@zeus.tamu.edu (GARCIA, OSCAR RENE)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: beat em back
Date: 21 Jan 1993 21:17 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: zeus.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

This is Diane: One of the reasons I have to be "closeted" is because people 
like you have such violent reactions to the way I live my private life.  
Besides, this is a homosexual net and I don't go around shoving my sexuality
or bashing yours on any other net, or even this one.  If I can respect your
sexuality, then I have a right to expect the same courtesy from you.  This 
system is set up for mature communication, not for people like you to display
your insecurities or hostilities.  So quit your whining and stay off this net
until you acquire enough brain cells to make a meaningful contribution .

Diane
From: axb39@po.CWRU.Edu (Ann Burlingham)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: k.d. and jackie
Date: 24 Jan 1993 17:52:01 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: axb39@po.CWRU.Edu (Ann Burlingham)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, timbuck@borg.lib.vt.edu (Tim Buck) says:

>In article <1993Jan6.233727.19055@hulaw1.harvard.edu> salomon@hulaw1.harvard.edu writes:
>>hi
>>in response to the inquery about "jackie" on the rosanne show.  I saw
>>two episodes where she is a lesbian.  I mean , if Jackie is the 
>>person I am thinking of. She is the friend of Roseanne and her sister, 
>>played by the actress Sara Bernheart.
Also, it's Sandra Bernhart. Sarah Bernhart was the famous French actress,
now dead.
  She told Roseanne and her sister
>Jackie is Rosanne's sister.  She has not come out on the show.  So far we've
>only seen her date men on the show.
>


-- 
Nonviolence is the answer to the crucial political and moral questions of
our time; the need for man to overcome oppression and violence without
resorting to oppression and violence.
                                             Martin Luther King, Jr.
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: cgoldman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Charles Goldman)
Subject: Re: Security Clearances for Civillians
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 18:14:25 GMT


>	Well, Clinton has talked about adding sexual orientation to the
>	list of protected classes in the federal Civil Rights Act.
>
>	That would cover every aspect, including civilian security 
>	clearances, as far as I know.  It would not, however, be binding
>	on the military, or on congress itself.  Congress exempts itself 
>	from most of its own laws. 

>Steven S. Brack       | "Love one another." |  sbrack@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu

Call me naive (go ahead!), but I am a lot less worried about Congress
discriminating against G/L/B people than most other institutions in this
country.  After all, any one can be elected to Congress and hold
a position of power.  That is not so true in IBM, the US Navy, or the CIA.

Charles
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: gsmith@polyhymnia.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Gene W. Smith)
Subject: Re: Where are all the lesbians???
Organization: IWR, University of Heidelberg, Germany
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 12:59:52 GMT

In article <1jph1vINNf42@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> tmo@harry.engin.umich.edu (Tanya M Ollick) writes:
>In article <1jhvqsINNrod@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, kjo@po.CWRU.Edu (Karen J. Osterle) writes:

>> Would someone please tell me where lesbians post in this
>> maze of a BB?

>I'd be interested to find out about that, too.

Because of fears that straight men would come in and screw things up,
no newsgroup was ever started for lesbians.  There has been some
discussion, and there are e_mail groups, which are more private.  A
discussion on news.groups or alt.config might get something started;
this should be cross-posted to soc.motss, soc.bi and soc.women if it
is attempted.

-- 
     Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/IWR/Ruprecht-Karls University 
               gsmith@kalliope.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: dudley_tl@cubldr.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: Beat 'Em Back In The Closet!
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 02:33:58 GMT

<bunch of ignorant bullshit cut>
> Good-bye, I think I'm going to go get laid by a member of the opposite sex 
> now.

Really?!?  Speaking as a member of the group from which you believe you will
find someone one to have sex with you (i.e. a heterosexual female, since
this depth of logic might be beyond you), I would like to advise you that any
woman that has even a hint of what a violent, twisted, ignorant person you are
wouldn't even consider having sex with you unless she were extremely demented
herself.  


To everyone else on this newsgroup:  I really admire the manner in which you've
handled this idiot and his comments.  I doubt I would be nearly as calm if he
had made such a personal attack towards me.  You guys are great!
From: ai494@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Tim Hilyard)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: Beat 'Em Back In The Closet!
Date: 21 Jan 1993 15:09:14 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


dear everyone,
   i was gonna keep out of this one, but i just have to make an
observation.  I LOVE US!  when confronted with a neandrathal (sp?)
like the one who started all of this, with his poorly developed
vocabulary and even sorrier spelling, we rise to the occasion
with humour, wit and intelligence.  never give up the fight because,
unfortunately, there are an awful lot of people like miss thing out
there.
   love yourself and love your gay brothers and sisters...
blessed be,
tim
ai494
-- 
"We have no need of a god, each of us is his own"  Janis Ian
               
                    ____________________
                    \                  /
From: vctr@engin.umich.edu (Michel Victor)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: Roseanne's Place
Date: 25 Jan 1993 10:12:32 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: howlingwolf.engin.umich.edu

I think that definitely the show 'Roseanne' is instrumental in its 'pro-gayness'. This is especially true since Roseanne's real-life sister, Geraldine Barr,
who is a Lesbian, has also written episodes and brought into the show Rose-
anne's former boss played by Martin Mull. The wonderful aspect about Mull's
character was that he was not created as a 'gay character' but rather a character who happened to be gay.  He was not a stereotype or a sniped character, but
just a man.
  He was way cool.
Roseanne's tv sister Jackie is almost always (usually desperately) seeking
a man, but I had no idea that Sandra Bernhard (Nancy on the show) had said
anything. This is interesting.  Not to knock television, but I had always
had the feeling that Bernhard was feature film material especially because
she is so hilarious.
 
---------------------------
later!
  vicki.
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: ckmerril@athena.mit.edu (Christopher K Merrill)
Subject: Fanzines
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 20:31:32 GMT

What are they and why are they talked about in this newsgroup? What is F5?
From: tmo@harry.engin.umich.edu (Tanya M Ollick)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: Where are all the lesbians???
Date: 22 Jan 1993 19:14:07 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan (CAEN)
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: harry.engin.umich.edu
Originator: tmo@harry.engin.umich.edu


In article <1jhvqsINNrod@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, kjo@po.CWRU.Edu (Karen J. Osterle) writes:
> 
> Would someone please tell me where lesbians post in this
> maze of a BB?  I looked under soc.motss, but it's mostly male.
> Is there something in the alt. file that I'm just not seeing?
> 
> Thanks!
> 			Karen

I'd be interested to find out about that, too. I know of the soc.bi/motss
groups, and alt.sex.homosexual, but they reflect what most of the Usenet world
does - mostly male postings. Even alt.feminism seemed to have more men posting
than women. 

TMO
From: tcarlin@athena.mit.edu (Thomas B Carlin)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: RE: Beat 'EM Back...
Date: 21 Jan 93 19:12:38 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology


	Normally, I attempt to educate such little minds.

	Today, I am not feeling quite so kind.

	Would anyone out there be so kind as to tell me where "muskingum"
college (university?) is, so that I may alert the appropriate Dean (in the
capacity as an administrator at MIT) about this hate mail?  I am
reasonably comfortable that they would not be happy that their vax system
was used for this, and more than willing to do something to see to it that
his (and, yes, I assume) "little wings" are clipped.

	I am not in the mood to change minds.  I am in the mood to 

			BASHBACK!!.

Thomas B. Carlin
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: anurag@core.ucl.ac.be (anurag)
Subject: hello
Organization: Universite catholique de louvain
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 10:21:11 GMT

Hello !
From: atropos@netlab.cis.brown.edu (David O'Donnell)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: Beat 'Em Back In The Closet!
Date: 22 Jan 1993 02:22:25 GMT
Organization: Enhanced Cybernetic Logic Operating Systems Group
NNTP-Posting-Host: netlab.cis.brown.edu

Indeed, the appropriate system administrator has been notified.	And action
is being taken.

--Dave O'Donnell
  Rabid Moderate Queer

Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: gjs0568@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Subject: Clinton's first day
Reply-To: gjs0568@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:01:55 GMT

	I was watching CNN this morning at breakfast and they had a bit on
Clinton starting procedures to get rid of the ban on Homosexuals in the
military. :-)  He told his secretary of Defense to start drafting a
presidential order to end the ban. :-)  Also he told the Armed Services that
they must stop questioning new recruits about their sexual oreintation (sp.).
	Just thought I would post this for everyone's knowledge.

Jonathan Smith
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: Security Clearances for Civillians
From: sbrack@jupiter (Steve Brack)
Date: 28 Jan 93 12:58:06 EST
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

cgoldman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Charles Goldman) writes:
: 
: >	Well, Clinton has talked about adding sexual orientation to the
: >	list of protected classes in the federal Civil Rights Act.
: >
: >	That would cover every aspect, including civilian security 
: >	clearances, as far as I know.  It would not, however, be binding
: >	on the military, or on congress itself.  Congress exempts itself 
: >	from most of its own laws. 
: 
: >Steven S. Brack       | "Love one another." |  sbrack@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu
: 
: Call me naive (go ahead!), but I am a lot less worried about Congress
: discriminating against G/L/B people than most other institutions in this
: country.  After all, any one can be elected to Congress and hold
: a position of power.  That is not so true in IBM, the US Navy, or the CIA.

	OK, you're naive!  8)  8)  

	But seriously... 

	You think Congresspeople are the only ones who work for the Congress?
	What about aides, secretaries, guards, electricians, clerks, and 
	other people who are employed there?  What about the Library of 
	Congress?  It's not just Congresscritters.  8)

--
Steven S. Brack         | "Love one another." |  sbrack@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu
Toledo, OH  43613-1605  |        - A tolerant |  STU0061@UOFT01.BITNET          
MY OWN OPINIONS         |          Christian  |  sbrack@nyx.cs.du.edu          
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: gsmith@polyhymnia.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Gene W. Smith)
Subject: Re: Correlations...
Organization: IWR, University of Heidelberg, Germany
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 13:04:20 GMT

In article <1jom1mINN7hk@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> vctr@engin.umich.edu
(Michel Victor) writes:

>   Please pardon my naive nature, but I've heeard this allusion before, to
>Garland and Co. Is there really anything behind this?

"The Family" means gays, bis and lesbians.  "Friends of Dorothy" means
the same, but refers particularly to the thing gay men are supposed to
have (and often do) with Judy Garland and the 'Wizard of Oz'.  It was
when Judy died that gay lib was officially born, with Stonewall.

"The Family" hangs out on soc.motss, where these locutions are
sometimes used.

-- 
     Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/IWR/Ruprecht-Karls University 
               gsmith@kalliope.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual,alt.politics.homosexuality,soc.history
From: larry@bradley.bradley.edu (L. D. Stratton)
Subject: Re: Homosexual Nazis?
Organization: Bradley University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 17:20:07 GMT

In <1993Jan22.163418.10191@bradford.ac.uk> K.M.Hetherington@bradford.ac.uk (KM HETHERINGTON) writes:

>There's an interesting bit in "Mein Kampf" where Hitler is describing his
>teenage years. I will have to paraphrase, as I don't have a copy to hand.
>He was talking about why he liked a particular school he was sent to on
>account of all the "Husky boys" there and points out that this interest
>seriously worried his mother!
>I'll try and root out the exact quote at some point, but it makes very
>interesting reading and as for the inplications...

   It is known that Hitler had an undescended testicle and historians 
   generally attribute him with asexuality.

   A far as the Reich is concerned, in its beginnings the Brown Shirts,
   forerunners of the SS, was headed by a fellow whose name escapes me
   but who was homosexual.  In 1936 (?) there was a move to consolidate
   power by Himmler, Goebbles, etc. and "The Night of the Long Knives"
   involved a massive purge of many Nazi leaders at the time.  One of
   these was the head of the Brown Shirts, a homosexual, and several
   other prominent homosexuals in the Nazi organization and government.
   That is when things turned nasty for gays in Germany.

   Hitler himself has never been considered to be gay or even gay-sympathetic.
   When you read the passages in "Mein Kampf" (try to read the German 
   original, BTW), there is more humor and sarcasm --- which later turned
   into hatred.  Gays in the Third Reich were thought incapable of producing
   any Kinder and the trait nonproductive for the proliferation of the
   'super-race'.  
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual,alt.censorship
From: kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.com (Michael P. Deignan)
Subject: Re: Beat 'Em Back In The Closet!
Organization: Small Business Systems, Incorporated, Smithfield, RI 02917
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 13:09:20 GMT
FollowupTo: alt.homosexual

nwhite@crc.ac.uk (Nick White) writes:

>I've just had a reply from the postmaster at Muskingum and by the sounds
>of it ch_hayhurst is going to get well and truly beaten in HIS closet!

>Just goes to show that writing to the postmaster can do the trick and get
>bigots like this of the net.


Interesting concept. Do you normally attempt to censor the views of everyone
you disagree with.

I'll be sure to contact the gentlemen at muskingum to insure that even if
you do succeed in censoring him at that site, he will have another site 
from which to post messages.

MD
 
  Michael P. Deignan, KD1HZ               
  Domain: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com               I'm not a bigot,    
    UUCP: ...!uunet!anomaly!mpd             I hate everyone...  
 Telebit: +1 401 455 0347                 
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.EDU (Christopher R. Dunlea)
Subject: Re: Correlations...
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 02:28:41 EST

In article <1993Jan23.130420.21042@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> gsmith@polyhymnia.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Gene W. Smith) writes:
>In article <1jom1mINN7hk@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> vctr@engin.umich.edu
>(Michel Victor) writes:
>
>"The Family" means gays, bis and lesbians.  "Friends of Dorothy" means
>the same, but refers particularly to the thing gay men are supposed to
>have (and often do) with Judy Garland and the 'Wizard of Oz'.  It was
>when Judy died that gay lib was officially born, with Stonewall.

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is the thing gay men "have with Judy
Garland and the Wizard of Oz"? What had Judy's death to do with Stonewall?

Would some kind soul e-mail a response?

Chris
From: org4688@zeus.tamu.edu (GARCIA, OSCAR RENE)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: hello
Date: 26 Jan 1993 11:19 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: zeus.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

well hello there yourself, anurag[sp=?]
From: PARRYJ@IBM3090.BHAM.AC.UK
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: hello
Date: 28 Jan 93 13:42:35 GMT
Organization: The University of Birmingham, United Kingdom
NNTP-Posting-Host: ibm3090.bham.ac.uk

>well hello there yourself, anurag[sp=?]
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------

==============================================================================
Hiya I felt I might butt in on this one
From: vctr@engin.umich.edu (Michel Victor)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: Correlations...
Date: 22 Jan 1993 11:33:10 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: howlingwolf.engin.umich.edu

A while ago, I was talking with my friend Dave about a guy that I knew.
I was just blabbing along when Dave asked me, "Is he a member of the family?"
I knew what he meant, but then he said, "Dorothy's family? You know, Oz..."
   Please pardon my naive nature, but I've heeard this allusion before, to
Garland and Co. Is there really anything behind this?
   Curious,
     vicki
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual,alt.politics.homosexuality