HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bkdavis@eos.ncsu.edu (B K DAVIS)
Subject: Re: Hsing I Kung Fu
Originator: bkdavis@c00082-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: bkdavis@eos.ncsu.edu (B K DAVIS)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 11:18:28 GMT


In article <1247@xlnt.COM>, david@xlnt.com (David Johnson) writes:
|> Path: taco!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!network.ucsd.edu!sdcrsi!xlnt!xlnt.com!david
|> From: david@xlnt.com (David Johnson)
|> Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
|> Subject: Re: Hsing I Kung Fu
|> Message-ID: <1247@xlnt.COM>
|> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 12:56:09 EST
|> References: <1992Nov6.185306.3511@seas.gwu.edu> <120@hallofjustice.UUCP>
|> Sender: postmaster@xlnt.COM
|> Organization: XLNT Designs, Inc (XDI)
|> Lines: 16
|> 
|> In article <1992Nov6.185306.3511@seas.gwu.edu>, yfkimura@seas.gwu.edu (Yusuke F. Kimura) writes:
|> > 	I've always been interested: what's the real difference between the >so-called "hard" martial arts, and the "soft" ones, like Hsing I or Tai Chi or >even Aikido?
|> 
|> What is so soft about xing yi?  At my school, we strike, kick, throw and
|> joint lock with speed and power.  We do a lot of strength and endurance
|> conditioning also.  My teacher grew up and learned in Taiwan and said
|> the xing yi practice there is much more rigorous than what he puts
|> us through.  Some of the senior students are even
|> preparing for a full contact tournament to be held in Taiwan.
|> 
|> Again, what is so "soft" about xing yi?
|> 
|> -- 
|> David Johnson
|> XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
|> david@xlnt.com
|> 
Hsing is one of the harder versions of soft kung fu. It has a lot of
chi training in it also. It is a very interesting art.
ALWAYS look before you leap or make a commment on other arts
without first doing some back ground on them.
Brian
aka
Black Buddha
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: RE: History (Yusool, Yudo, Jujutsu, Judo)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 20 NOV 92 15:45:18    


A gentleman addressed as "medina@fel.creol.ucf.edu" "Mr. Medina"  (Erwin)
sent me the followed in email, and I thought others might be
interested.  He is apparently unable to post it himself.

>To: stark@wdovax.enet.dec.com
>Subject: Yusool and Yudo again....
>
>I finally got a chance to talk with a friend of mine about what I thought was a
>connection between the 2 arts I mentioned.  My friend, James Hollis, told me 
>that Yusool was an art which had some similarities with Jujitsu, but is really
>something which is Korea's own.  Yudo is something which the Koreans adapted
>from Judo pretty much.  

[remainder deleted]

This seems to me to corroborate the Draeger and Smith assertion that
Yusool is (was) a distinct art, and that modern Yudo is not derived from it
the way Judo is derived from JuJutsu.  And that Yudo is an adaptation of
modern Judo.  This also seems to continue the support of the contention that 
Jujutsu is an art or collection of arts of uniquely Japanese character.

[Permission to post ...]

>Please go ahead and post it to the net.  I'm very unfamiliar to the system and 
>ireally can only read the posts.  I tried a couple of times to reply to a couple
>of posts, but I don't think it worked out.  

						kind regards,

						todd
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Todd I. Stark				  stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com |
| Digital Equipment Corporation		             (215) 354-1273 |
| Philadelphia, Pa. USA                                             |
|    'Reason is no substitute for Passion, nor Passion for Reason.' |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: dunger@crsa.bu.edu (David Unger)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Forms or Kata
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:37:39 GMT
Followup-To: use of forms
Organization: Boston University Center for Remote Sensing


	The definition of a kata ia as follows:

Apre

	A prearranged routine; Aplanned pattern of attack; A way
of organizing techniques into a logical pattern so as to better learn
the techniques and make a statement about your art; A formal dance.


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: a908301@tiuk.ti.com (Andrew Hudson        (0004 fuzz))
Subject: Re: Combat effectiveness?
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:54:38 GMT

In article <722248782snx@paragon.folly.welly.gen.nz>, Richard Perry
writes:

> Now, I want to know what you lot consider the single most effective
> fighting art.

Let me ask Richard a question:

What style works best for yourself?


.......You have just answered your own question!


---
Andy Hudson (a908301@server1.tiuk.ti.com)

    - NE TE CONFUNDANT ILLEGITIMI ! -





Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fbrohs@email.tuwien.ac.at (Friedrich BROHS)
Subject: Re: new SEAL book title?
Organization: Technical University of Vienna
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 09:01:10 GMT

Ther is an excellent book about martial arts training in armed forces
and about conditioning herefore. It's written by Lenox B. Cramer
(spell???) and is called war with empty hands. Lenox B. Cramer was an
instructor to MACV (CIA???) in the Vietnam war, and his system has been
tested in Beirut sucessfully again.
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: More fogey fighting
Date: 16 Nov 1992 21:40:43 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <74350@apple.apple.COM> mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:
>In article <BxsE18.2t8@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:
>>Right, but while they may have a great idea of what to do, their
>>physical strength will be less (although they will be stronger than
>>their contemporaries) and hence their reaction time will also be
>>slower.
>
>It doesn't matter how much faster you are if the other guy knows how to
>consistently take a position that eliminates the advantage of speed.

Or, to put it another way, it doesn't matter what your reaction time is like
if you are able to make sure your opponent is the one that does all the
reacting. 

I saw an old fogey escrimador spar one of his senior students at a demo once.  
During the entire "match", the student was never once in a position to take
effective offensive action.  He just kept getting immediately stuffed
(when he wasn't busy picking himself up off the mat).

Of course, for this to work, the fogey does have to completely outclass his
opponent.  But keep in mind that this discussion started when some little
snotnose punk claimed 10th dans were full of shit and that he could kick butt
on any 70-year-old he met.


-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
From: jat@hpcss01.cup.hp.com (Joseph Talmadge)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 01:23:30 GMT
Subject: Re: HELP: Muay Thai techniques
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

jl52800@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (The Incredible Mr.Wong) writes:
>Hello there. I've got a few questions for anyone proficient in Muay Thai.
>
>1. When you lift up your leg to block a kick, what do you try to block with?
>   Is it the muscle in front of your shin, the whole side of the calf, or most
>   unlikely, the bone?

The bone.  You'd better be really, really conditioned.  My shin isn't
anywhere near hard enough to do full-power shin-on-shin contact yet, but
I've watched a few Thai ringfighters do it in my gym, and the crack of
their shins is pretty gross!

Getting hit in the muscle can lead to cramping, then you're in real
trouble.

>2. What is the most efficient way to block elbows coming straight up? Same with
>   uppercuts. 

For me, I find evading and parrying work better than blocking for blows
coming up.  Move that head out of the way!  I also use boxing-type
blocks -- keeping the arm parallel to the ground, I put it under my
chin.  If you do this, you'd better be sure you're blocking with the
same side arm that the attack is coming from, or it's lights out for
you.

>3. Any suggestions for someone who feels COMPLETELY awkward doing anything with    the left side of his body? I feel totally wrong when I try to kick or elbow
>   with my left side. 

When I first started boxing, my coach watched me a while, then
told me, "for every strike with your right hand, I want you to do
three with your left".  Pretty soon my left side felt really good.  In
some ways now, it's stronger than my right.

There's a lot more weapons to practice with in muay Thai, but the
advice stays the same.  When you're practicing a certain strike,
do lots more left than right.  When you're working combinations, 
try to use combinations that use more left hits.  

Joe
jat@cup.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: chris@actrix.gen.nz (Chris Double)
Subject: Re: Charging for training?
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 09:44:28 GMT

In article <722002828snx@paragon.folly.welly.gen.nz> parry_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz writes:
> 
>  > SOME Americans who teach martial arts charge money.  Some don't.  
>  > Of those who do, some make a profit.  Some don't.
> 
> Fair enough.  I was talking from my references, which included about 4
> people who's sempai didn't make a profit, and about 20 who's sempai did.
> Make bad odds...  You tell me.  If it makes a difference, the two areas
> I was staying were Harbour City (LA, Cal) and New York (NY, NY :)
> 
So out of a country as big as the States  you make a general
statemate from 'statistics' gained from two cities??

Compare the statistics against all martial arts training in the
States and you will probably find a different story. The same goes
in the New Zealand clubs I've had involvment with...Some make a
profit and some don't.

>  > Somehow I have a very hard time believing that every martial arts school
>  > in NZ that charges money is operating on a "break exactly even" basis.
> [snip]
>  > Seems I was right...
> 
> Yeah.  One out of... uh, a few hundred, at least... is pretty good odds.
> I dunno.  Ask around - maybe some other guys down here have heard about
> clubs that I haven't.  But this Ninjitsu is definitely a McDojo.
Remember that New Zealand does have a smaller population. It doesn't
have the number of martial artists to support large commercial
operations, hence the lower number of nationwide commercial dojos.

> 
>  > Can I ask a really stupid question here?  Do you really feel that you 
> 
> Gee, I dunno.  Why not?  I haven't seen any adverse commments (yet) from
> the guys down here, and even recieved a few good ones.  Seems fair.
> 
Well, here's one :).

You certainly don't speak for me and therefore don't speak for all
martial artists in New Zealand.  

There are some clubs here who operate on a break even basis and
there are some who operate at a profit. It doesn't really matter as
long as the instruction being given is good, and the students are
gaining from it.

Regards,
Chris Double 
chris@actrix.gen.nz
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: lauren@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Brian T. Murray)
Subject: Re: What are the purposes of Forms ?
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 13:34:58 GMT

phd07@keele.ac.uk (H.C. Patel) Writes:
>Basically, I want to know what are the purposes of forms ?.
>I do not see why there is so much emphasis on them. How can it help someones
>ability as a martial artist ?.

I find that continuously practicing forms and katas makes the
transition between techniques and combinations of techniques natural.
Eventually you learn to do them without thinking.  You don't get this
from just practicing the techniques themselves, and during sparing you
are mostly thinking about strategy and tactics.

What does your instructor say?


-- 
/***************************************************************
* Brian T. Murray          |   LEARN something new every day   *
*                          |   DO some good with what you know *
* GM Research Laboratories |                                   *
***************************************************************/
From: dude@losers.hacktic.nl
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: The art of head-butting!
Date: 23 Nov 92 11:38:55 GMT
Organisation: black mail inc.

In article  <1992Nov18.195710.25473@oracle.us.oracle.com>, George Lo writes:

 G> >	Headbutting is stupid unless you have no other opions
 G> >which I doubt will happen>
 G> >First of all it is proven that you usually hurt your head just
 G> >as much as the other persons.
 G> >
 G> I don't like headbutting, but it is not necessary that you
 G> hurt yourself as much as your opponent.  When I played soccer
 G> a lot before I came to US, I realized that hitting the ball
 G> with the head is painful when you are not ready and afraid of
 G> it.  But if you concentrate the force on your forehead to hit
 G> the ball, there is no pain at all.
 
 It also depends *where* you hit with your head : to hit someone in his
 face is ok, but to hit someones elbow with it wouldn't be very effective :-)
 There are a lot of things you can use your head for, however: striking, 
 applying pressure, biting, etc. It's also possible to block an incoming 
 round strike with your head (by striking your opponents biceps).
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: question about history of different styles
Date: 20 Nov 92 21:30:27 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


yfkimura@seas.gwu.edu (Yusuke F. Kimura) writes...
>Where does Aikido come from?  What are the origins of MA's in Japan?  
> Obviously China, but from what styles or combinations of styles?  
> Could anyone clear this up?  Thanx a lot in advance.

That's not obvious at all.  In fact, it sounds almost like you're 
implying that the medieval Japanese weren't bright enough to have come 
up with anything original on their own.  :-)  (That's a joke).

I believe there were significant influences on Japanese culture
from the older culture of China, especially during the T'ang Dynasty and some 
others, but the Japanese culture also (as you no doubt are aware) has some very
distinctive features of its own that show up in all of their arts,
including martial arts.   Japanese Zen has some flavor to it that is not found 
in most other interpretations of Ch'an.  And Japanese classical weapons
schools (which are a large part of the background of Aikido) were very
unique in many ways.  

Aikido is derived from the original contributions of Ueshiba Morihei,
his esoteric religious prefererences and socio-political leanings,
the Takeda Daito-Ryu Aikijutsu lineage, and other classical Budo/Bugei
training of Ueshiba.  

Does that help ?

							kind regards,

							todd
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Todd I. Stark				  stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com |
| Digital Equipment Corporation		             (215) 354-1273 |
| Philadelphia, Pa. USA                                             |
|    'Reason is no substitute for Passion, nor Passion for Reason.' |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: david@xlnt.com (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Full contact no protection competition
Keywords: unprotected, competition, sparring, full-contact, ouch
Date: 18 Nov 92 00:57:02 GMT
Organization: XLNT Designs, Inc (XDI)

In article <1992Nov14.194356.19654@pages.com>, kevin@pages (Kevin Sven Berg) writes:
|> >In article <1992Nov4.215421.8721@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca>, 
|> >cs922096@ariel.yorku.ca (JOSE J. MONTANO) writes:
|> >
|> >     If anyone thinks that Muay Thai is undefeated in world competition, I ask
|> >you to rent a movie called "Fighting Black Kings", which you can find at any
|> >good Blockbuster Video.  It is a documentary about the 1st annual Martial Arts
|> >Invitational in Tokyo...
|> 
|> I know there have been an on-going open invitation competitions in Taiwan
|> for some time. I understand the rules to be full-contact with the exception
|> of strikes to the eyes, throat and groin. Elbows and sweeps are allowed and
|> only cup protection is worn (for men).
|> 
|> Q: Does anyone know where else (globally) these competitions are hosted?
|> 
|> Several threads have discussed the applicability of sparring or
|> competition to real defense situations, and it would seem to me that
|> this type of competition would come closer to 'real fighting' (tm)
|> than most of the common point-scoring competitions.
|> 
|> Q: Does anyone have experience in participating in these full-contact
|> no-protection competitions?
|> 
|> Q: Has anyone (directly) witnessed the fighting in these matches? Comments
|> on the fighting, fighters, styles?

My teacher won the Taiwan competitions twice in the late 1970's.  Some
of his senior students were preparing to participate in this year's
competition but the plan fell through.  I do not know the details of
why.

My teacher says it is open style but xing yi practitioners tend to win.
The rules (which are few) do not seem to favor xing yi but they are the
ones who tend to win.  My teacher practices xing yi primarily, but also
studies bagua and Chen taiji.

-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com
From: toman@darkwing.uoregon.edu (Joseph Toman)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido : jo vs. spear
Date: 18 Nov 92 02:51:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntp.1992Nov18.025134.12061
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services

In article <1992Nov17.184646.11795@cs.brown.edu> tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus) writes:
>
>  There is something I have always wondered about the jo.  Biographies of 
>  O'Sensei note that he studied Hozoin ryu spear, but not the jo (although 
>  there is mention of Daito-ryu "stick fighting").  When we study aikijo, 
>  are we really imitating the movements of a spear rather than a jo, just 
>  as a bokken is not a bokken but a katana?
Harumphh! Just another data point, when we study bokken, it's about
70% blunt impact weapon and 30% pretend edged weapon. 

I don't know a lot about jo, the only jo form I knew I forced myself
to forget so I could learn a very similar bo form. I do know that when
we practice bo, which was what O-Sensei was doing before jo (I think),
the bo forms I know would be pointless if one end didn't have an edgy
bit on it. Actually, if you remember that he was about 5'3" or so (given
he hadn't been hanging himself upside down from a tree :), the difference
between jo and bo start to blur. Maybe the average American aikidoka is
actually studying han-bo ;-) .

>  In aikijo kata we have far 
>  fewer end-reversals than in jodo kata, to the extent that one might 
>  suspect that they were just thrown in at some point (of course unlike 
>  the jo the spear is asymmetric, one would rarely if ever want to reverse 
>  the position of the spear head).  Comments??

??? A reverse tsuki with the butt of the weapon is a common move in our
forms. Why do you think it wouldn't be useful ?

							J. Toman
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: matthew@cs.mun.ca (Matthew J. Newhook)
Subject: Re: Ted's Aikido Tips #1
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 14:28:23 GMT

tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus) writes:


>   Someone recently posted about how painful it was doing sankyo 30
>   times at a seminar.  Here's something that'll make it less
>   stressful to the wrist.  Make it a point to keep your thumb inward 
>   towards your little finger if you can.  I.e., avoid the "human
>   snuff box" that forms from the two tendons at the base of the thumb
>   if the thumb is placed on the side of the wrist.  This also makes it 
>   painless to do a sankyo stretch on oneself using the opposite hand. 

I've been having alot of trouble with my left thumb.  It is quite painful
to put pressure on it (such as pushups, or the type of pressure applied
from Sankyo, Nikyo, and Koteguish).  It has forced me to stop practicing
and I find this quite irrirating, to say the least.  Has anybody else
had this sort of problem, and what can I do about it, beside lay off
for a little while.

>==========================================================
>  Ted Camus                          Box 1910 CS Dept 
>  tac@cs.brown.edu                   Brown University
>  tac@browncs.BITNET                 Providence, RI 02912
-- 
Matthew Newhook (matthew@engr.mun.ca)       |  "...get on with the fascination
Faculty of Engineering and Applied Science  |  the real relation, the underlying
Memorial University of Newfoundland, Canada |  theme" - Limelight, Rush
From: phd07@keele.ac.uk (H.C. Patel)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: What are the purposes of Forms ?
Date: 19 Nov 92 13:33:13 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England


Hi!,
	 I have not been reading this group regularly. 
So apologies if this question has been discussed before. 
	Basically, I want to know what are the purposes of forms ?. 
I do not see why there is so much emphasis on them. How can it help someones
ability as a martial artist ?. Finally, how should one perform a form ?.
That is, do you picture an oponent in front of you while performing ?.
	
Thank you.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hitesh C. Patel,                        e-mail : phd07@uk.ac.keele.seq1
C/o Department of Physics,
University of Keele,
Keele, Staffs.
ST5 5BG.
U.K.
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 12:23:14 -0500 
From: Peter Jason Ward <pw2j+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: new SEAL book title?

I believe the book you're thinking of is ROUGE WARRIOR, although I
cannot remember the author's name.  One of the benefits of working at a
B. Dalton's for a year and a half.
                             Peter Ward
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd)
Subject: Re: The art of head-butting!
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:37:18 GMT
	<1e9t94INNgts@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Organization: University of Utah

In article <1e9t94INNgts@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bp652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gil W. Lau) writes:

   In a previous article, shulick@yankton.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) says:

   >I've always wondered, how do you pull off a successful headbutt without
   >hurting yourself?  I've experimented/practiced a little bit (ow!), and
   >found that the part of the skull about three inches above the eyebrows
   >is a TOUGH spot in the skull.  It's ABOUT where the hairline recedes.  I
   >hit a wall w/ my head and it didn't hurt.. too much. :)  Call me
   >insane.. :) 

   Basically you've got the right part of your skull to use.  Never use
   your forehead against your opponents like you always see in the movies.
   What you want to do is to slam your crown moving in a straight line 
   into the guy's face.  This is what's been taught to me, but I kinda 
   doubt I'll ever use it in combat.  A good knee smash to the groin
   should do the trick!

another useful point: aim for the nose, or a cheekbone, if possible.
if you hit your enemy's mouth, you are likely to get cut by his teeth.
you definitely do not want a cut on your hairline, gushing blood into
your eyes.

--
jonathan byrd
jon@apollo.med.utah.edu