HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Considering 4'33''
Date: 18 Nov 1992 17:54:33 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Roger Lustig (roger@crux.Princeton.EDU) wrote:
: 
: I expect your opinions of Atlas Eclipticalis, HPSCHD, and Europera II
: by return post.  You *do* know these pieces, roght?
: 

As long as people like haus der luge (not the lower cases!) spout on
about 4'33" than people will get the goat up. Cage wrote a lot more
important pieces that this old chestnut. I feel it's like typifying
Elgar by P&C, or Holst by the Planets. 

BTW The first, and still one of the only pieces of Cage I have disliked is
HPSCHD. For totally emotional reasons to boot. I got my exciting
nonesuch recording (lower case on cover complete with the computer printout)
and read that he'd done the things he did because he hated the sound of the
harpsichord. 

As one who has been enchanted with the sound of the harpsichord since
the age of 4, I was shattered. in the Baierian moral leverage between
Cage and Harpsichords, the latter won.

Incidentally the piece on the other side, Johnson's quartet is still one
of the most enjoyable mucking around with tonality pieces I've heard
(Partch notwithstanding).
 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: _The Low Symphony_ (Glass/Bowie/Eno)!
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:40:14 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <By6Gvn.E58@news.cso.uiuc.edu> erwin@helsinki.ks.uiuc.edu (Edgar Erwin) writes:
>Gregg Jaeger writes

>My copy of _Low_, bought in France, does not include `Some Are'.  Are there  
>different versions of this album for America and the US?

Yes, there is a Rykodisc release (I'm not sure whether this has been
released outside the US) which includes "Some Are", "All Saints", and
"Sound and Vision". The first two were previously unreleased and the
third is a 1991 remix. Apparently Glass heard this release as "Some
Are" was previously unreleased. The RYCKO address is: Pickering Wharf,
Bldg. C, Salem, MA 01970 USA. The cd is RCD 10142.


Gregg




-- 
Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy)  Dept. of Physics (and Philosophy), Boston Univ.
"You see, the quantum mechanical description is in terms of knowledge" -Peierls
"One can _not_ put the psi-function... in place of the... thing" -Schroedinger
                   _De gustibus non disputandum_, NOT!
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Bernard Shaw quotes (was: Brahms)
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:06:21 GMT

In article <BxtI2y.3Ez@news.cso.uiuc.edu> erwin@helsinki.ks.uiuc.edu (Edgar Erwin) writes:
>Robert Parson writes
>>  The only composer I can think of who did take a broad,
>>  generous view of music even when it differed radically from his own is
>>  Schumann. 

>Aaron Copland was equally generous.  

>Just like other groups of people, some composers like only their own style,  
>some recognize the value of almost all styles.  Although I would be inclined to  
>believe that an acceptance of a variety of styles would be a benefit to a  
>composer, I've found no correlation between the views of a composer towards his  
>peers and the quality of his own music.  Counterexamples, anyone?

I'm not sure what a counterexample to a no-correlation might be, but a 
few more names can be dropped in the hopper.

Brahms respected Wagner greatly, to the point of cancelling rehearsal
when he heard of Wagner's death, saying, "A master has died."  He had
*no* respect for anyone who couldn't see the genius behind the 
Meistersinger prelude.

Bach was interested in all the music of his time, and copied/arranged
Vivaldi, Handel, Pergolesi, etc.  

Stravinsky and Schoenberg, for all the animosity, liked some of each
other's pieces.  

Mahler came around to Brahms very late, as I've mentioned before.  He
(literally) stood up for Schoenberg on at least one occasion.  Despite
Debussy's attitude toward him, he conducted Debussy more than once, in
New York, no less.

People like Boulez and Ralph Shapey have conducted so much music that's
unlike their own, yet ofthe sort that requires advocacy, that it's
hard to imagine that they don't like *any* of it.

Roger
>
>Ed erwin@lisboa.ks.uiuc.edu 


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel)
Subject: Bernstein's Tchiakovsky Sixth, again
Organization: Visual
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 16:33:25 GMT



After all the talk here about the Bernstein DG recording of the
Tchaikovsky Sixth, I finally decided to take the plunge and check
it out.  

First things first:  WOW.

As familiar as I am with this music, I listened to this CD four
times over the weekend.  Each time I was hearing things, and experiencing
things, that I hadn't thought possible with this work.  I was amazed 
at how Bernstein really plumbs to the core of the music.  Truly
a momumental achievement.  Yes, the foreshadowings of Mahler are
there: timpani like hammer blows, great arcs of sound that swell with
nearly overwhelming majesty.  How my walls shook!  And it all works,
absolutely.  This is a keeper.

I also like the way the middle movements are fulfilled beyond their
bounds.  The second is played more or less traditionally, but that very
fact allows it, too, to transcend the ordinary, because its very bright-
ness gives an essential, stark contrast to the complete darkness of the
first -- a very fitting strategy in the all-encompassing vision of this
conception.  The third is rhythmically crisp, full of brass and sass.
Then the finale arrives, completely despairing, totally bereft.  The
end comes with such defeat that it is nothing less than shattering.

Now, I don't understand all the equivocating by even the people who love
this performance.  A lot of them say it's superb, on-the-edge, almost
unbearably sad, but then as they give with one hand they take away
with the other, and warn that it is nonetheless unacceptable as a 
reading of first choice.  Why not?  If a work is supposed to be tragic,
why not champion a performance that epitomizes that?  After all, this
is the way we take our pick of Mahler symphony performances.  In our
Mahler Fourth we want a finale that sings about innocence, so Kathleen
Battle and Maazel get the obvious nod.  When it comes to the Second,
would we want one that is anything less than overwhelming in its
final apotheosis?  Or likewise for the Eighth?  Therefore, for me,
the choice is Rattle and Tennstedt, respectively.  

The Bernstein Tchaikovsky Sixth is rated **(*) in the Penquin Guide --
ah, so unnerved are they, those polite, unruffled traditionalists.
But this is a Sixth to take the breath away.  Bernstein's love for
this music must have been all-encompassing.  The first movement alone
rated a lengthy defense in one of his early books on music.  How
fitting that he has left us this recording as a legacy.  

I can't wait to try out his Sibelius First!  Thanks to all who wrote
so strongly in favor of this recording.  It allowed me a fantastic musical
experience.


Rob


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tait@cs.columbia.edu (Carl Tait)
Subject: Re: Adagio for Strings
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 10:00:20 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.162041.16617@midway.uchicago.edu>
hcresnic@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>Yes, there are many. IMHO the best orchestrated version (as opposed to the 
>piece as a part of Barber's String Quartet) is Bernstein's recording with 
>the LA Philharmonic on Deutsche Grammophon.

I agree; it's a tragic and moving interpretation.

>The tempo of the recording on the Platoon is taken way too fast.

Well, keep in mind that Bernstein's recording is unusually slow.
Does ANYONE else's version last more than 10 minutes?  Toscanini
took 6 or 7 minutes!

Carl Tait
From: hal@radio.wkar.msu.edu (Hal Prentice)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Soler sonatas:reccomendations?
Date: 18 Nov 92 20:40:04 GMT
Organization: Broadcasting Services, Michigan State University

In article <Bxv0Bx.M6B@cs.vu.nl> lrozend@cs.vu.nl (Rozendaal L) writes:
>From: lrozend@cs.vu.nl (Rozendaal L)
>Subject: Re: Soler sonatas:reccomendations?
>Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 12:07:08 GMT
>ransoff@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes:
>: I would appreciate any reccomendadtions you may have for CD recordings 
>: of the sonatas of Antonio Soler. I have located one series of CD's 
>: featuring Bob Van Aspen on the Astree label, and would welcome opinions 
>                    ^^^^^
There is a very nice recording by Maggie Cole of 12 Soler sonatas.  The 
sonatas are featured on both the haropsichord and fortepiano.  
Unfortunately, the CD was issued on Virgin Classics (VC7 91172-2) and I don't
know if this label is still available since it was absorbed by EMI this past 
year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hal Prentice, FM Program Manager      Michigan State University
WKAR-FM, 283 Communication Arts Bldg  East Lansing, MI 48824-1212 USA
Internet: hal@radio.wkar.msu.edu      Bitnet: hal@radio.wkar.bitnet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mikulska@crux.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska)
Subject: Re: Why not a rec.music.contemp group?
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: mikulska@astro.princeton.edu (Margaret Mikulska)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:15:29 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.161723.12482@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde) writes:
>
>Why not indeed? 

Because 20th C music is a natural, continuous extension of the older
music.  It would be deleterious, even pernicious, and altogether a Bad
Thing to isolate contemporary music in a separate group.  One of the
problems that new music faces is the inability of listeners to see that
this music developed from earlier music, and that there is no dividing
line between the "modern" music and the "classical canon".

>After all, early-musickers have been segregated 
>into rec.music.early. 

Because they wanted to discuss _technical_ issues related to performance
on and making of old instruments.  I recall the time when that group was
created: it was technical issues, not musical, that motivated the split.
Note that we still talk about pre-Baroque music in this group, at least
occasionally.

>Am I the only one who has little interest
>in contemporary music (say, post-1945), 

As you can see from the postings here, quite a few people participate in
lively (to use a euphemism) discussions on modern music.  You might have
also noticed that some people actually like contemporary music.  On the
other hand, you might have also noticed that a few people dislike new
music.  So?

>and who is at wits' end
>to devise an appropriate kill file? Next to /excalibur/j
>and /haikovsk/j, I already have /cage/j, /4'33''/j, /glass/j, /berio/j, 
>etc, but the kill file is getting long and involved, 

Tough.

>and netters are always coming up with stealth subject lines.

Yeah, the deviousness of music lovers knows no limits.

>No offense intended, this is a naive, non-partisan question.

No offense intended either.

And if you think there are too many postings related to modern music,
start a thread of interest for _you_.


-Margaret
From: al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (haus der luge)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Berlioz
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 18:20:55 CST
Organization: System 6626 BBS, Winnipeg Manitoba Canada

dstrait@telesciences.com (Darin Strait) writes:

> Can someone recommend a CD pressing of Berlioz's Symphonie Phantastique (sp?)
> Thanks in advance.
> dms

I would recommend that you preferably buy a CD that DOES NOT have the 
"Symphony Not Really Very Good and Extremely Over-Rated".
 
Sincerely,
HausDerLuge (I don't like Mozart either)

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pugh@pico.math.ucla.edu (David Pugh)
Subject: Re: #1 Brahms & Wagner #2 Brahms & Rachmaninov
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 01:39:35 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.172404.25133@digi.lonestar.org> gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo) writes:
>
[a whole lot of stuff cut]
>
>Does anyone have any other candidates for the Brahms concertos?
>
>Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com)

I heard Ashkenazy play both concertos in one concert once ! If my memory
serves me well, he played the 1st rather poorly but this warmed him up
sufficiently to play the second rather well. I don't suppose Brahms would
appreciate his 1st being used as a warm up...

I heard a fantastic performance of the first by Radu Lupu. It was
electrifying. It might have been at the proms.

As you can see, I don't know recorded versions too well. I never liked
listening to recorded versions of piano concertos much anyway. Pianists
always seem to do better in concerts (well some of them). Perhaps they
take more risks or maybe it's just the atmosphere?

There is no doubt that the Brahm's piano concertos are wonderful. I
prefer the second. It has a wonderful cello solo in the 3rd movement
(great melody) and the piano writing is more varied and muscular.

Personally the way to get a good recording is to tape a broadcast
concert off the radio (probably illegal I expect...). Okay so you get
coughs and background noise but it sure beats the sterile sound of a
recording room.

David



--
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
   David Pugh,  UCLA,  CA         |     Hot Dog, Jumping Frog
   pugh@math.ucla.edu             |     Albuquerque  -  Prefab Sprout
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
From: rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Rob Brooks)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Rachmaninoff
Date: 19 Nov 92 22:23:17 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College

In article <0aJguB2w165w@student.business.uwo.ca>,
r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith) writes:
> 
> ugh, ugh, ugh.

I'm sorry, do you have something in your throat?  :-)

Rachmaninov:  aah, aah, ahh.

Rob (rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu)


>
> r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
> Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
> 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pugh@pico.math.ucla.edu (David Pugh)
Subject: Re: Varese influenced by Webern???
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 20:36:52 GMT

In article <g0iguB1w165w@student.business.uwo.ca> r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith) writes:
>please explain. I would think they are rather opposed.
>
Did I say that? Well I know some of those 40's, 50's composers were
influenced by Webern more than Schoenberg or Berg. I don't even
remember what Varese did now. Didn't he use group theory to write his
music or was that someone else. I used to be interested in that stuff
that was written but not any more.

David


--
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
   David Pugh,  UCLA,  CA         |     Hot Dog, Jumping Frog
   pugh@math.ucla.edu             |     Albuquerque  -  Prefab Sprout
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
From: acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: A Query
Date: 18 Nov 92 16:07:16 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1ec74hINNp7f@bigboote.WPI.EDU> kat@banach.WPI.EDU (Christina Lynne Freeman) writes:
>I would like to buy my father a CD of "Pictures at an Exhibition"  on it for
>Christmas.  It is one of his favorites (according to my mother.)  However, I 
>forgot which composer this piece is by.  Also - does anyone know of a good 
>recording that they prefer over another?

It's a piano piece by Mussorgsky.  There are various orchestrations
available.  By far the most popular incarnation is the Ravel orchestration,
but since you didn't state which incarnation you wanted, I'll take the
liberty of assuming the original solo piano.

There are a lot of bad versions out there.  The best I've heard is the
Richter on DG mid-price.  It's mono, though.  The Horowitz is supposed to
be good, but that, too, is mono.  Easily the best stereo version (and quite
a good recording, at that) I've come across is the Pletnev on Virgin.  He
takes a few liberties with the score, but who cares -- it's an amazing
performance!  And its coupled with an equally dazzling piano reduction of
exerpts from Sleeping Beauty (Tchaikovsky).

You probably really want the Ravel orchestration of the piece, but why not
take the plunge and get something a little more offbeat -- the Pletnev!

-chris
From: MHUGHES@MIAMIU.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Messiah recommendations? (probably seasonal FAQ)
Date: 23 Nov 92 20:08:11 GMT
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service

Two excellent period instrument/small ensemble performances:(Foundling Hospital version)
 Academy of Ancient Music, Christ Church Cathedral Choir
 Christopher Hogwwod
 L'Oiseau-Lyre (Decca) circa 1980
 
 (Dublin premiere version)
 Boston Baroque Orchestra and Chorus
 Martin Pearlman
 Telarc 1992
 
The Telarc is a fine new recording.  The Hogwood uses an all-male choir
but the soparno soloist is female.
 
Mike Hughes
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Viola sola mind blowa (was Re: Tubas (was Re: Euphoniums (was: Tubas)))
Date: 21 Nov 92 11:58:32
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
	<3940058@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: zornow@hpcc01.corp.hp.com's message of Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:00:51 GMT

In article <3940058@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> zornow@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Claudia Zornow) writes:

   jim@fuji.eng.yale.edu (James J. Szinger) writes:

   > I still think that 'euphonia' is more euphemistic.  By the way,
   > what the plural of 'tuba'?  'Tubae'?

   Tubim?

Tubot?
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write lpf@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: kschorn@gwdgv1.gwdg.de
Subject: piano and flute
Reply-To: kschorn@gwdgv1.gwdg.de
Organization: GWDG Goettingen, F.R.Germany
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 19:05:25 GMT

I play piano at medium level, my wife plays flute very well. We already 
learned a lot of duets for piano and flute from Bach and Haendel. We 
want to learn compositions from other composers as mentioned above.
Who can suggest to me nice pieces for piano and flute, which are not too
difficult to play ?

Karl Schorn

kschorn@gwdgv1.decnet.gwdg.de
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jeffw@or.credence.com (Jeff Winslow)
Subject: Help Required, but no more art dodeco.
Organization: Credence Systems Corp. Beaverton, OR
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 00:09:16 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.005354.17611@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:

>Actually, the blues has a harmonic rhythm that's quite different from
>the uses of the "primary" triads in Western art music in general.  You
>have to go back to Banchieri and the like to find anything like it.
>And there's *nothing* to compare to its modal peculiarities, rhythms,
>performance styles, etc.

This reminds me of a day way back in first year music history. We were
looking at 16th century Italy, and the professor put on some music, I
can't remember who by, full of strong rhythms, very little counterpoint,
and all the harmony was I, IV, V, and flat VII, all in root positions. It
sounded so much like a certain kind of rock, a number of people in the class
started laughing.  But on rereading what you wrote, I would guess this
was not Banchieri.  Who might it have been?

						Jeff Winslow
From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: The Planets
Date: 18 Nov 92 00:20:50 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

I'm glad to hear someone speak up for Previn.  Several times I have heard a piece
conducted or played by him and been utterly amazed at his subtle sense of movement
and rythmn.  The feeling was authentic, as each time I didn't know who it was 
until after the piece was over.  The first experience was his playing the Bach
two part invention in F on the piano.  Then there was a Haydn symphony and I
don't remember what else.  There was a wonderful subtle sense of aliveness and 
movement, without force or bombast in his playing and conducting.

Who else has interesting things to say about him, recomendations etc?

Gerry Palo (73237.2006)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dwong@chopsuey.pico (David G. Wong - VIP user)
Subject: Re: piano and flute
Reply-To: dwong@chopsuey.pico
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:54:50 GMT

In article 29749@viewlogic.com, brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg) writes:
>
>In article <UGX8XOT@gwdu03.gwdg.de>, kschorn@gwdgv1.gwdg.de writes:
>|> I play piano at medium level, my wife plays flute very well. We already 
>|> learned a lot of duets for piano and flute from Bach and Haendel. We 
>|> want to learn compositions from other composers as mentioned above.
>|> Who can suggest to me nice pieces for piano and flute, which are not too
>|> difficult to play ?
>|> 
>Bach and Handel provide some marvelous material. You might also check
>out anything you can find by Vivaldi (some of the very best Baroque)
>and Telemann (the most abundant Baroque). There is also some wonderful 
>stuff of a more recent vintage. I am thinking primarily of a piece by 
>Poulenc. I can't say how difficult it is, but it is so good, I would 
>suggest investigating it. In fact, there is a wealth of beautiful music 
>for flute and piano. You might want to go out and buy several recordings 
>with this instrumentation covering a wide range of composers, and listen 
>for something you would like to perform yourself, then re-mortgage your
>house to buy all the sheet music from Schirmer's. :-)
>
>Ciao, BK

I heard some very nice violin music by Krisler to be play on flute.  I guess almost all
easy violin pieces can be made to fit the flute as long as it does not have to much 
double stops.  However, there is always the special arrangement of the Carmen Fantasy 
for people with great lung power and skills!

arrivederci.

davide
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical