HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gwoho@ucrmath.ucr.edu (gwoho liu)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Picking Best locks (Was: Re: Combination Locks)
Date: 11 Nov 92 06:47:52 GMT
Organization: University of California, Riverside

In article <1992Nov7.020255.22107@ncsu.edu> hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
>In article <1992Nov6.065754.21910@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>>cs101c96@eng-nxt04.cso.uiuc.edu (cs101 student) writes:
>>:  ...
>>: 2) What makes Best locks so damn hard to pick?  ...
>>
>>Probably mushroom or spool pins. Both make picking the locks much more
>>difficult. However, it can be done - with a sensitive and soft touch -
>>as well as lots of practice.
>> ...
>
>  Even without mushroom/spool pins they are harder than average
>to pick.  IMHO this is because of more precise manufacture than
>average.  The presence of the control cylinder may also somewhat 
>hinder picking.
>
>--henry schaffer  n c state univ

also the things seem to have 7 more closely than average spaced pins and a
really curvy wurvy keyway.  i never tried long to pick such a lock.  didn't
seem worth much effort--there's nothing interesting to me about best locks.
i dont know how to pick a lock anyway.  i'd say they're probably harder
than the old medecos.  new medecos, however i'd say are pretty close to
impossable to pick. i dont know how to pick locks anyway, so i guess i dont
really know though.

this is my first post to this group, i believe.  i include some reactions
to things a saw previously here.

someone before put schlage high on a list listing locks in order of difficulty
to pick.  we have schlage locks at school/work.  it's good to know that they're
secure.

also someone mentioned trouble with master padlocks because of mushroom
pins/drivers.  has anyone actually seen a mushroom anything in a master
padlock?--i find it pretty hard to believe that a master lock contains
anything at all to hinder a lock picker.

a hacksaw blade to make a lockpick?  how can one consider such an awful
chunk of metal?  i'm pretty clumsy with tools and have busted lots of
hacksaw blades.  they break pretty easily especially if you bend them as i
do (i'm really awful at using tools).  now a belt saw blade is somewhat
different from a hacksaw blade.  i've bent those things like crasy (actually
the saw did the bending as they tend to do during ordinary operation) and
they didn't break.  a hacksaw blade is about as thick as any saw blade, except
perhaps a chain saw's blade.
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: brian@creek.eel.ufl.edu (Brian Gentry)
Subject: test-please ignore.
Organization: UF EE Department (student)
Distribution: UF
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 00:42:00 GMT

test.



Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: s4i@sws11.ctd.ornl.gov (Jim Simmons)
Subject: Re: Identify this key....
Organization: Oak Ridge National Laboratory
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:44:48 GMT

Sixth Plane of Hell (psionic@wam.umd.edu) wrote:
: 
: Ok this key is not using magnetic technology. Rather it uses a system known as
: Wiegand technology. It is rather in depth to talk about it in such a short
: article so you may have to research it in a magazine or two. But basically
: the key contains many small metal strips embedded in the plastic that gives 
: it a unique code. It would be very hard to duplicate this key or to trick
: the reader. They key record is probably kept by a central computer for they
: system. There are many manufacturers who use this technology. Such companies
: include Corby systems, Northern computers, American Magnetic, etc. I'd suggest
: using the 800 directory to get the number for one of these companies and ask 
: for information about their wiegand reader systems. They'll almost always send you information about them..
: 
: psionic@wam.umd.edu

Actually, the Weigand effect is magnetic.  The "keys" I've seen contain
a series of short wires.  The wires are made up of two different metals
(the core is different that the outside).  When passed through a magnetic
field and then run past a read head, a pulse is generated.  The pulse is
either positive or negative depending on the position of the wire relative
to the read head.  Treat each wire as a bit and you have a binary number.

The advantage to this over traditional magnetic stripes is that the keys
are permanent, oblivious to magnetic fields (they can't be erased),
the read head does not have to come into contact with they key (just
close), and they don't wear out.

As for counterfeiting them, if you can get your hands on a valid key plus
some of the material used for the wires, you can copy the key.  Of course,
since a computer is usually used to decide which keys are good, if the owner
of the key reports it missing the computer simply ignores the key or
sounds an alarm if someone uses it.  The locks can't be "picked" in the
ordinary sense, because there are a large number of possible keys and
there is nothing physical in the lock that will tell you which are valid.

For more information, try looking up "Weigand Effect" at your local
library.
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Combination Locks
From: petrisko@evax2.engr.arizona.edu (William Petrisko)
Date: 7 Nov 92 23:37:02 MST
Reply-To: petrisko@evax2.engr.arizona.edu
Distribution: usa,local
Organization: University of Arizona, College of Engineering and Mines, Tucson

>>2) What makes Best locks so damn hard to pick? I worked on the one on my  
>>dorm closet for 45 minutes with no luck. I took the lock outta the door  
>>for an examination, and couldn't really figure it out. Is there a certain  
>>method to go about picking these?

I have been trying to pick several Corbin locks at work recently, and 
it seems like I get most/all of the pins, but it still doesn't budge.
I'm thinking that maybe there are spool/mushroom pins...are these
standard-fare on Corbin locksets?  (It may have something to do with the
fact that I am just beginning, but anyway...)

Oh, btw.. I got a hold of a master key for a short period, and from the
looks of it, I can take my normal key, file most of the positions down
and come out with a master...  isn't this kind of a poor design/master
key planning on their part?

-bill
--
bill petrisko                                  petrisko@evax2.engr.arizona.edu
   aka n7lwo                 ...!uunet!4gen!warlok!gargle!omnisec!thumper!bill
From: bpn@po.CWRU.Edu (Brian Nelson)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Phrack newsletter
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 03:56:37 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University
NNTP-Posting-Host: b62102.student.cwru.edu

I've seen this mentioned several times.  Could anyone tell me where I can 
get copies of either Phrack or 2600 magazine? Thanks.

"So when I die, the first thing I will see in heaven is a score list?"
1st Law of Hacking:  leaving is much more difficult than entering.
2nd Law of Hacking:  first in, first out.
3rd Law of Hacking:  the last blow counts most.
4th Law of Hacking:  you will find the exit at the entrance.

Brian Nelson
bpn@po.cwru.edu
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Subject: Master key design (Was: Re: Combination Locks)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Distribution: usa,local
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 16:42:04 GMT

In article <1992Nov7.233702.3961@arizona.edu> petrisko@evax2.engr.arizona.edu writes:
> ...
>Oh, btw.. I got a hold of a master key for a short period, and from the
>looks of it, I can take my normal key, file most of the positions down
>and come out with a master...  isn't this kind of a poor design/master
>key planning on their part?

  Yes.  A good design for a master will not allow it to be made by
removing metal from any of the other keys.  This is only a small
degree of protection since it is not hard to obtain key blanks, but
why give up even this small amount of protection?

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Jammed locks after picking
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:31:26 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

miolnir@stein.u.washington.edu (Scot Thorstad) writes:
: >
: >Another source is a place that repairs band saw blades. Many of them are
: >also the right thickness. You could also just go to Sears or a discount
: >store and buy a 1/4" or 3/8" bandsaw blade. It would cost a few dollars,
: >but would supply enough material for dozens of picks.
: >
: >By the way, Scot - you forgot to relurk on departing.
: >
: >Bill
: 
: Maybe I plan to stick around, hows that strike ya?

The more, the merrier. 

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: hdavies@rx.xerox.com (Hugh J.E. Davies)
Subject: Re: interest in car alarm group?
Reply-To: hdavies@rx.xerox.com
Organization: Rank Xerox Ltd.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 08:49:17 GMT

In article 13197@newshub.sdsu.edu, dunster@sdsu.edu (mark dunster) writes:
>In article <2930500342.0.p00140@psilink.com>, p00140@psilink.com 
>(Gary A. Woodward) writes:
>> 
[stuff deleted]
>> 
>
>I too would be very interested. I own a VW Jetta ... enough said.
>

"Enough said". Why?
---


Regards,

Hugh.
------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't speak for Xerox, nor they for me.

Rank Xerox European Systems Centre, Welwyn Garden City, Herts., UK.
Mail to; Huge.wgc1@rx.xerox.com, whatever it says in the header.

Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg)
Subject: Re: Phrack newsletter
Organization: Hatch Usenet and E-mail.  Playa del Rey, CA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:49:03 GMT

In article <bpn.85.721281397@po.CWRU.Edu> bpn@po.CWRU.Edu (Brian Nelson) writes:
>I've seen this mentioned several times.  Could anyone tell me where I can 
>get copies of either Phrack or 2600 magazine? Thanks.

2600 Magazine
Box 752	
Middle Island
NY  11953

Individual sub, 1yr=$21, 2yr=$38, 3yr=$54
-- 
Rich Greenberg      Work: rmg50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com
N6LRT               Play: richg@hatch.socal.com
What?   Me speak for Amdahl?  Surely you jest....
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: rwallace@tortoise.cis.ohio-state.edu (rome m wallace)
Subject: Where can I find a Greenwald Industry key?
Followup-To: Rome Wallace
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 02:57:46 GMT

I just purchase a washer/dryer which are coin operated and the owner didn't

have a key for the money box - he said I could go to Sears (they are the 

Sears coin op. brand) and that they could get me a key for $0.35.  We'll

needless to say, Sears couldn't get me the key alone (I'd have to buy

the money box with it) and I haven't found a locksmith here in Columbus

who can help me.  The key is manufactured by Greenwald Industries, the

key number is GR9730, and the fron of the money box is "tear shaped".

I really appreciate any help... I am paying to wash my clothes and i

can't retrieve any of my money.  The Sears guy said that they have to

order the money box/key pair from Dallas Texas (I am not certain that

the money box/key would be the same as the one i have???).

Rome Wallace







Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: sgw@athena.mit.edu (stephen g. wadlow)
Subject: Re: Jammed locks after picking
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
	<y=31H&absa@atlantis.psu.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 00:52:01 GMT


In article <y=31H&absa@atlantis.psu.edu> holman@pop.psu.edu (Darryl J. Holman) writes:

   In article <1992Nov9.201221.18908@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
   >It is possible that there are some thin pins in the lock. If the person
   >is raking the pins, they might jump and tip on edge. Depending on which
   >pin did so, it could cause either the master or change key (or both) to
   >not work any more.

   I have also had Best removable-core type locks get jammed after attempts
   at picking.  The key would only go about halfway into the lock.  I figured
   that, perhaps, tiny metal filings were comming off of my pick.  So, I
   squirted some graphite into the locks, raked the locks, tapped the
   core a few times with the handle of a screwdriver, and succeeded in
   getting the lock to work again.  

that sounds very much like a wedged wafer, and is very common in pin tumbler locks.
The description sounds like one of the wafers is fairly thin, and easy to get wedged
slightly diagnolly, thereby any of the bottom pins can't actually move up and down
like they normally should.   What you have described is also the textbook solution
to freeing a wedged wafer.

				steve


Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Jammed locks after picking
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 06:32:34 GMT

holman@pop.psu.edu (Darryl J. Holman) writes:

:   I have also had Best removable-core type locks get jammed after attempts
: at picking.  The key would only go about halfway into the lock.  I figured
: that, perhaps, tiny metal filings were comming off of my pick.  So, I
: squirted some graphite into the locks, raked the locks, tapped the
: core a few times with the handle of a screwdriver, and succeeded in
: getting the lock to work again.  

This is starting to sound like a thin pin is getting tipped and jammed -
maybe between the two shear lines.

:   What material are the Best pins made of?  Perhaps they are made of a
: harder material than my picks.  I make picks out of broken-off street
: sweeper brushes.  Are these too soft to use.  Many years ago, I used
: to be able to find good quality spring steel laying around in 
: industral areas.  I think they were used as supper-straps for holding
: machinery down to palettes.  But those days are gone, and now all I find
: is plastic straps.  Where does one get good spring steel for making
: picks and tension wrenches?

All pins, that I have encountered, are softer than spring steel. I don't
think the strapping was spring steel - too soft. Generally, you cannot
bend spring steel to a sharp right angle, without it fracturing. I still
see metal strapping used, on rare occasion. You might check with local
industrial suppliers. Maybe they have a whole spool of it that they cannot
unload because nearly everyone is using nylon. If so, maybe you could make
a deal with them - and have enough to supply several thousand locksmiths
with pick material for the rest of their lives.

Bill
Xref: sparky alt.locksmithing:1962 rec.audio.car:4744
From: ebe+@pitt.edu (Elmer Beachley)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing,rec.audio.car
Subject: Re: interest in car alarm group?
Date: 12 Nov 92 02:04:58 GMT
Followup-To: alt.locksmithing
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


Gary:

Auto alarms and security are regularly discussed in rec.audio.car.

Elmer Beachley etb@cs.pitt.edu
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: yabi@ellis.uchicago.edu (Scott Thomas Yabiku)
Subject: Jammed locks after picking
Organization: None
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 10:11:04 GMT

Has anyone had this happen?  I've been practicing my picking skills on
some pin tumbler locks in my dorm.  First, I picked the lock to my room 
door.  But after picking and sucessfully unlocking it, the lock became 
jammed (neither further picking nor the key would work), and I had to have
my lock replaced.  I tried picking another lock (same type as my door), and 
it too seems to be jammed.  
Why is this happening?  I didn't force the locks in any way; my picking and 
tension are very gentle, as they should be.  Could they be cheap locks?
They were fairly easy to pick.
-yabi

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have a nice day!  :)

Xref: sparky alt.locksmithing:1977 rec.audio.car:4794
From: ben@monmouth.edu (Bennett Broder)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing,rec.audio.car
Subject: Re: interest in car alarm group?
Date: 13 Nov 92 13:36:29 GMT
Followup-To: alt.locksmithing
Organization: Monmouth College, W. Long Branch, NJ  07764

In article <1992Nov13.030057.4263@newshub.sdsu.edu> dunster@sdsu.edu (mark dunster) writes:
>In article <1992Nov12.085402.4517@csusac.csus.edu>, chenh@neptune.ecs.csus.edu (H. Philip Chen) writes:
>> Having a rec.(car-alarm) will probably attract a whole bunch 
>> of flames from people who just hate those things.  
>
>Who cares? If they hate them, they don't have to read the newsgroup. I hate
>having my car stolen!  ):^(

Yes, but an alarm isn't going to do squat to help you.  My dad had his Jeep
stolen in broad daylight in a crowded mall parking lot.  No one payed any
attention to the alarm howling.

I can tell you why.  I live in a condominium, and every time we have a
windy night, I am awakened many times by different car alarms trying to
outdo each other with the obnoxiousness of their blasts.  I hate to say
this, but it's true... I never even bother looking out the window when
I hear one of these alarms.  Chances are 99% that it's a false alarm, but
if it is a thief and he can successfully remove one of these disruptive
noisemakers, there will be one less nuisance false alarm to endure
tomorrow night.

If you want to protect your car, get a silent alarm with a pager, a Lo-Jack,
or an armed guard.  We have enough noise pollution, thank you.

-- 

Bennett Broder               Monmouth College
                             Computer Services
ben@monmouth.edu             W. Long Branch, NJ 07764
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: brian@creek.eel.ufl.edu (Brian Gentry)
Subject: test
Organization: UF EE Department (student)
Distribution: UF
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 00:46:28 GMT


test.
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: dsdd@okcforum.osrhe.uoknor.edu (Roy Barrett)
Subject: Bandsaw Blade Pick Does NOT WORK!
Originator: usenet@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:34:50 GMT
Organization: Okcforum Unix Users Group
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]



The person who posted about a Bandsaw blade as a pick in a pin-tumbler lock: It
will not fit into most locks... I got one from the school's shop, and it almost
fits, but it doesn't..

--

=====================================
dsdd@okcforum.osrhe.uoknor.edu #1@#31
=====================================

Roy Barrett... Yep, that's my name...

Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Date: Sun,  8 Nov 1992 03:22:12 -0500 
From: Pat_Barron@transarc.com
Subject: A strange hotel room key - do you know how it works?

A friend of mine recently showed me an unusual hotel room key, and I'm
rather bamboozled about how it might work.

The key itself consists of a thin, rectangular strip of metal with
some small rectangular holes in it.  My friend tells me that each key
looks exactly the same, each with an identical number of holes in the
same places.  When you check in, they take a key at random out of a
box, run it through a reader, and that becomes the key to your room.

I can't figure out what's going on here.  If there were a magstripe
visible on the key, I could understand, and I could also deal with it
if each key had a different pattern of holes, but this is a simple,
unadorned hunk of metal - looks like it might have been cut from a tin
can, for all I can tell.  Any clues?

--Pat.
From: ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Washing machine
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:03:10 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <bpn.75.720826153@po.CWRU.Edu> bpn@po.CWRU.Edu (Brian Nelson) writes:
>In article <1992Nov3.200107.5731@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>>From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
>>Subject: Re: Washing machine
>>Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1992 20:01:07 GMT
>>rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:
>>: 
>>: What you may have here is a protective cone over a conventional tubular lock
>>: (most likely the ACE #137).  The ACE key for this lock has a long shaft so it
>>: can reach inside the cone and actuate the lock.  I don't know of any lockpicking
>>: attacks which will work unless you first remove the protective cone.
>>
>>It is definitely a tubular lock. 
>>
>Do you mean a tubular lock, as in the type on a pop machine? I don't think 
>it is this typ, because of the size of the hole.  If anyone has any 
>information about the keys for these locks, please mail.  Thanks.
>
[Brian's sig deleted]

  It is NOT a tubular lock.  It looks like something like Abloy or
some Lord-King-God sidebar lock.  I looked at one, and the slit is round,
but two metal spring-loaded thingies make it look like a flat key.  The
diameter is too small for a flat key, and it looks like it has a sidebar
disks, like Abloy.

PS:  Why do people forget these wierd keys and locks, and just go with
     Medeco locks, which can stand HELL, and not budge.




-- 
******* ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas R. Floyd) ******
Disclaimer: I speak for myself.
Win NT:     Prophesied in the Bible as one of the signs that the
            world is about to end.
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Combination Locks
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 06:57:54 GMT

cs101c96@eng-nxt04.cso.uiuc.edu (cs101 student) writes:
: Hello everyone. As a newcomer onto the scene, I have a couple of questions  
: that someone out there will be able to answer.
: 
: 1) What is the most efficient method of manipulation for combination  
: locks? Is there a difference between manipulating Master as opposed to  
: other brands?

Cheap padlocks can be manipulated. The better ones have provisions to make
this difficult. It varies from lock to lock.

: 2) What makes Best locks so damn hard to pick? I worked on the one on my  
: dorm closet for 45 minutes with no luck. I took the lock outta the door  
: for an examination, and couldn't really figure it out. Is there a certain  
: method to go about picking these?

Probably mushroom or spool pins. Both make picking the locks much more
difficult. However, it can be done - with a sensitive and soft touch -
as well as lots of practice.

Generally, picking locks are a waste of time. For most houses, there are
easier ways to get in. Remember, for a locksmith, time is money. Often, it
is better to just smash, drill or pull the old lock and replace it with a
new one. If the customer is agreeable, it will usually save them money.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: jemenake@zeus.calpoly.edu (Joe Emenaker)
Subject: Re: Phrack newsletter
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 02:20:05 GMT

bpn@po.CWRU.Edu (Brian Nelson) writes:
>I've seen this mentioned several times.  Could anyone tell me where I can 
>get copies of either Phrack or 2600 magazine? Thanks.

I've got about every Phrack from issue #1 through #26 or so. It spans
about 2 1.44MB disks AFTER compression. Also, I've got a bunch of PHuN
Journals, and all sorts of other stuff on how to be an electronic
MacGyver basically. If you want a particular issue, I could send it to
you.

I got them from  a guy named Jim Thomas at the Dept. of Sociology at
Northern Illinois in DeKalb. I forgot his e-mail address, but he's one
of the guys who used to publish (and maybe still does) the Computer
Underground Digest. I remember they had set up an anonymous ftp site
that had just about every subversive piece of literature on electronics
and computers. They might still have this.
-- 
Joe Emenaker - Sexual Engineer | "You will be assimilated." - Borg 
   jemenake@nike.calpoly.edu   | "Yes, but before that happens, can we ask 
   Pro-woman, anti-feminist    |  you some questions?" 
 (This is the .sig of the day) |                       - Jordy LaForge