HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: John Lussmyer <dragon@angus.mi.org>
Newsgroups: alt.bbs.ads
Subject: Re: Public Access USENET/EMAIL/UNIX
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 08:30:56 EDT
Reply-To: dragon@angus.mi.org
Organization: North Star BBS

max@underg.UUCP (Max Cray) writes:

> Huh? You find someone locally to feed you. Scrounge the maps. And if you
> are out in the boondocks, then you are going to have to pay for phone
> service anyway, so why compound the error by paying for a newsfeed?
 
Even if you find a local feed (and I can), there is the problem that
(in this area at least) there is no such thing as unmetered calls.  If
I exceed a certain number of calls/month, I get charged more.  If I am
a nice persone (which I generally try to be) and allow other people to
get feeds from me, and use my BBS, that will usually keep the phone line
busy enough, that I would have to get a 2nd line (if not a 3rd).  That
costs real $$$.  If I decided to get a full feed, (at about 35M/day),
that right there would tie up a phone line for a good portion of every
day.  it would also tie up my feeds phone line, adding more costs to 
his operation (since he would probably need to get another line.)  Now
if I have a choice of being 4 modem drops off the backbone for free, with
a partial feed, or being 1 drop off the backbone for $100/yr.  I would
take the $100/yr.  Quality of service DOES make a difference.
> 
> 
> Are you really claiming that its impossible to have a reliable multi-user
> system using a typical home system (i.e. a 386 cpu)?
> 
No I am not saying that it is impossible.  What I AM saying is that it
is impossible for some people due to things like job constraints.  In my
case I am a MS Windows software developer.  I also do MS Windows 
development at home because I have some shareware projects I work on.
This means that I have to use DOS/Windows.  This also means that you do
NOT want to use a BBS that I am running in a Window.  I crash my system
a LOT!  I would like to use a more stable multi-tasking system, but I
can't just yet.  I will probably have to wait until Windows/NT becomes
stable enough to use.
   NOTE: Please do NOT go into a religious nit fit about the above.  I
am NOT saying OS(a) is better than OS(b).  I DO KNOW that there are OS's
that can handle a BBS and development at the same time.  It's just that
I can't use them currently.  Those are my restrictions, that is my 
choice.


--
John Lussmyer (dragon@angus.mi.org)
North Star BBS, Royal Oak, MI --------------------------------------------+-
From: elizabeth.lipson@execnet.com (elizabeth lipson)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs.ads
Subject: seekers bbs
Date: 4 Oct 92 05:58:38 GMT
Reply-To: "elizabeth lipson" <elizabeth.lipson@execnet.com>
Distribution: alt
Organization: Executive Networks Information


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---
 ~ OLX 2.2 ~ Drop your carrier...We have you surrounded!
--
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
Xref: sparky alt.bbs.ads:1485 biz.comp.services:264
Newsgroups: alt.bbs.ads,biz.comp.services
Subject: Re: Public Access USENET/EMAIL/UNIX
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 19:35:40 GMT
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island, CANADA

In article <06cTRB2w165w@angus.mi.org> dragon@angus.mi.org writes:

>Free feed?  I don't think there is such a thing as a truly free feed.
>If you aren't paying the supplier for the connect time, you are paying
>the phone company for phone time.  It gets really easy to run up a $100
>month phone bill that way.

You're right - no free lunch. However, costs can be extremely low, certainly
low enough to provide free access to those who don't have either the
hardware or the expertise to manage the job on their own. (My phone bill is
about $Cdn85.00 a month, for five lines, and I provide free access to bbs
accounts, with >1600 newsgroups, one hop off the internet.

>   Yeah, most people who would like to get a newsfeed would already have
>a system capable of handling it.  But they also want to be able to USE
>their own system.  So that means having a second one to handle the BBS
>end of the deal.  

Many of the leaf sites feeding from oneb.alamanac.bc.ca are DOS-based, and
use their machines for both uucp/news and other tasks (WP, games, etc.) - it
is both possible and easy, and there's no need whatsoever for a dedicated
communications system. A quick look at oneb's map (u.can.bc.1) will
demonstrate that - only two of the listed systems downstream run UNIX, and
only a very few DOS (Waffle/FredMail/whatever) sysadmins have more than one
machine. (Hell, I gave my 286 DOS machine to my ten year old grand-daughter,
who uses it daily for news, mail, and games - she would find your assertion
amusing, and wouldn't understand why you think she should add another
computer to the household, when the one she has does everything she needs it
to do, satisfies the whole family's need for computing power, and keeps
everyone happy.)

>                 (Yeah, you could run under a multi-tasking OS, but who
>want to loose the performance, and have the system crash out from under
>them.)

I switched from DOS (FrontDoor/Maximus/DESQview) to SCO XENIX _precisely_ to
_gain_ performance, not loose it, and I did just that. Other than hardware
crashes (disks, usually), the machine has been utterly reliable, and has
provided nearly uninterrupted UseNet/UUCP feeds for close to four years. I
submit that it is totally unreasonable to assume that a XENIX
(UNIX/QNX/whatever) system will "crash out from under you".

-- 
The Old Frog's Almanac - Public Access UseNet for Central Vancouver Island
     (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) Waffle XENIX 1.64
Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay)
                    < October 26th: voting NO >
Newsgroups: alt.bbs.ads,biz.comp.services
From: bill@unixland.natick.ma.us (Bill Heiser)
Subject: Re: Public Access USENET/EMAIL/UNIX
Organization: Unixland Public Access Unix  (508) 655-3848
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 03:27:14 GMT

dawson@willard.UUCP writes:
>> Yeah, and while he's at it he should ask UUNET to provide a feed for
>> $100 per year and see how far he gets with them :-)
>As competition with other carriers comes into play, that may indeed become
>realistic in the not-so-distant future.

We need the price of INTERNET connections to drop like that :-)

-- 
bill@unixland.natick.ma.us                      ESIX Mailing List Moderator
Public Access UNIX/USENET/E-MAIL!  UUCP Accounts Available!  (508) 655-3848
5 lines  -  Located in Natick, MA   USA    Supporting V.32/PEP/V.42bis, etc.
From: "dennis hauser" <dennis.hauser@execnet.com>
Newsgroups: alt.bbs.ads
Subject: "delight the customer"bbs
Date: 2 Oct 92 04:08:29 EST
Reply-To: "dennis hauser" <dennis.hauser@execnet.com>
Distribution: alt
Organization: Executive Networks Information


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--
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International ILink Host
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Newsgroups: alt.bbs.ads
Subject: New Waffle BBS in Boulder Creek, CA
Keywords: Waffle, BBS, California, 408
Date: 3 Oct 92 05:19:15 GMT
Organization: SPECTROX SYSTEMS (408)252-1005 Silicon Valley, Ca


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--
adrian@spectrx.saigon.com (Seth Adrian)
SPECTROX SYSTEMS +1.408.252.1005  Silicon Valley, Ca
Newsgroups: alt.bbs.ads,biz.comp.services
From: rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Public Access USENET/EMAIL/UNIX
Organization: QueerNet
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 14:32:32 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.185359.2113@jack.sns.com>, steve@jack.sns.com (J. Steven
Harrison) writes:

|> The point being made is that there are a number of other alternatives these
|> days.
|> Ten years ago that was not the case.

I disagree.  Ten years ago, it was *much* easier than it is today to find a
site which would either provide you with a news feed or let you log in and
read news for free.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG                 {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
From: overlord@megalith.miami.fl.us (Carlos Amezaga [POSTMASTER])
Newsgroups: alt.bbs.ads
Subject: Starlight BBS is Back!!!!
Keywords: 
Distribution: USA
Date: 5 Oct 92 00:11:46 EST
Organization: Megalith Mail & News Server

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--

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
%    __     %  UUCP:  overlord@megalith.miami.fl.us  % I Tried MS-DOS Once %
% __///     %  Fido:  1:135/92                       % But Didn't Inhale.  %
% \\//Amiga %  GEnie: C.Amezaga                      %        --D.Atkins-- %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Newsgroups: alt.bbs.ads,biz.comp.services
From: bill@unixland.natick.ma.us (Bill Heiser)
Subject: Re: Public Access USENET/EMAIL/UNIX
Organization: Unixland Public Access Unix  (508) 655-3848
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 01:59:54 GMT

kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay) writes:

>You're right - no free lunch. However, costs can be extremely low, certainly
>low enough to provide free access to those who don't have either the
>hardware or the expertise to manage the job on their own. (My phone bill is
>about $Cdn85.00 a month, for five lines, and I provide free access to bbs
>accounts, with >1600 newsgroups, one hop off the internet.

Apparently phone costs vary significantly by location.


-- 
bill@unixland.natick.ma.us                      ESIX Mailing List Moderator
Public Access UNIX/USENET/E-MAIL!  UUCP Accounts Available!  (508) 655-3848
5 lines  -  Located in Natick, MA   USA    Supporting V.32/PEP/V.42bis, etc.
From: bzs@ussr.std.com (Barry Shein)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs.ads
Subject: Connections in London, England
Date: 1 Oct 92 03:16:43 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: The World


I recently mentioned a service in London in response to a query. A
friend reminds me that demon.co.uk is another very nice dial-up
internet site in London. Since I have only a few friends in London I
decided I had better mention them also, no doubt however I have now
estranged them all, and a few others as well. So it goes.

The support (voice) number for demon.co.uk is 081-343 3881.

--
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD
Xref: sparky alt.bbs.ads:1514 biz.comp.services:288
From: rmk@frog.CRDS.COM (frog)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs.ads,biz.comp.services
Subject: Re: Public Access USENET/EMAIL/UNIX
Date: 1 Oct 92 06:04:06 GMT
Organization: Charles River Data Systems

In article <1992Sep27.185359.2113@jack.sns.com> steve@jack.sns.com (J. Steven Harrison) writes:
>In article <Bv61Jw.17E@ddsw1.mcs.com> karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep25.045232.14876@jack.sns.com> steve@jack.sns.com (J. Steven Harrison) writes:
>>>In article <1992Sep24.215846.18021@unixland.natick.ma.us> bill@unixland.natick.ma.us (Bill Heiser) writes:
>>>>
>>>>                      Unixland Public Access Unix and  BBS
>>
>>Better tell UUNET! :-)
>>
>
>I agree but if you look closely at theor contracts they are charging for the
>right to connect and the connect time only. There is a VERY fine difference
>in the semantics of the original statement the gentleman made and what UUNEt
>claims.
>
>I do not agree with either though!
>
>The point being made is that there are a number of other alternatives these days.
>Ten years ago that was not the case. Today I think that anyone who really
>wants to read the news can find someone that will feed it to them for nothing.
>As long as people agree to pay there will be a market. Remember one
>of the first rules of capitalism DEMAND=SUPPLY.


But also remember: "You get what you pay for"
		   "Caveat emptor"

I get a feed from unixland.  It costs me $100 dollars per year plus my phone
charges.  I can get the same feed from another system that I talk to for
free.


I pay $100 per year for reliablility.  The possible free feed goes down a lot
and has no interest in guaranteeing mail or news service, but Bill Heiser at
unixland has a reason, my $100, to keep things flowing smoothly.

It's one thing to have a free feed that has flowed through a lot of slow UUCP
sites, and quite another to pay $100 per year for a feed that can get my mail
to the west coast in less than an hour.

You get what you pay for.
Xref: sparky alt.bbs.ads:1462 biz.comp.services:244
From: max@underg.UUCP (Max Cray)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs.ads,biz.comp.services
Subject: Re: Public Access USENET/EMAIL/UNIX
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 02:30:22 EDT
Organization: Underground Computing Foundation

bill@unixland.natick.ma.us (Bill Heiser) writes:

> There are also some smaller sites run from people's homes where they provide
> free feeds.  I can only surmise that these sites are run by people who are
> pretty well-to-do so they can afford to spend the hundreds of $$ per month
> that it costs to run such a site, pay for thousands of dollards of hardware,
> etc, etc.

What? If you get a free feed it does not cost hundereds of $$ per month, and
it seems only fair to pass along the favor. You don't need thousands of
dollars of hardware. You could run a site for under a thousand easy, and
most computer hackers would pay this for a machine anyway. My point is that
one can participate directly in the uucp net (getting, and giving newsfeeds)
without paying any more than the usual computer hobbyist, and not be
well-to-do. It sounds like you are trying to justify your own your own
dollar-centric-thinking.

                                          -= Max =-
...!uunet!underg!max
...!cactus.org!underg!max
---------------------------------------------------------------------
 I program in C because it turns women on...
Newsgroups: alt.bbs.ads,biz.comp.services
From: dragon@angus.mi.org (John Lussmyer)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs.ads,biz.comp.services
Subject: Re: Public Access USENET/EMAIL/UNIX
Date: 28 Sep 92 13:40:32 GMT
Reply-To: dragon@angus.mi.org
Organization: North Star BBS

max@underg.UUCP (Max Cray) writes:

> What? If you get a free feed it does not cost hundereds of $$ per month, and
> it seems only fair to pass along the favor. You don't need thousands of
> dollars of hardware. You could run a site for under a thousand easy, and
> most computer hackers would pay this for a machine anyway. My point is that
> one can participate directly in the uucp net (getting, and giving newsfeeds)
> without paying any more than the usual computer hobbyist, and not be
> well-to-do. It sounds like you are trying to justify your own your own
> dollar-centric-thinking.
> 

Free feed?  I don't think there is such a thing as a truly free feed.
If you aren't paying the supplier for the connect time, you are paying
the phone company for phone time.  It gets really easy to run up a $100
month phone bill that way.
   Yeah, most people who would like to get a newsfeed would already have
a system capable of handling it.  But they also want to be able to USE
their own system.  So that means having a second one to handle the BBS
end of the deal.  (Yeah, you could run under a multi-tasking OS, but who
want to loose the performance, and have the system crash out from under
them.)

--
John Lussmyer (dragon@angus.mi.org)
North Star BBS, Royal Oak, MI --------------------------------------------+-
Xref: sparky alt.bbs.ads:1466 biz.comp.services:247
From: dawson@willard.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.bbs.ads,biz.comp.services
Subject: Re: Public Access USENET/EMAIL/UNIX
Date: 28 Sep 92 11:10:50 GMT
Organization: Willard's House BBS, Atlanta, GA -- +1 (404) 664 8814

bill@unixland.natick.ma.us (Bill Heiser) writes:

> There are also some smaller sites run from people's homes where they provide
> free feeds.  I can only surmise that these sites are run by people who are
> pretty well-to-do so they can afford to spend the hundreds of $$ per month
> that it costs to run such a site, pay for thousands of dollards of hardware,
> etc, etc.
> -- 
> bill@unixland.natick.ma.us                      ESIX Mailing List Moderator
> Public Access UNIX/USENET/E-MAIL!  UUCP Accounts Available!  (508) 655-3848
> 5 lines  -  Located in Natick, MA   USA    Supporting V.32/PEP/V.42bis, etc.

It does not cost me anywhere near "hundreds of $$ per month" to run such a
site as the one you describe, yet I am able to feed several sites.  Sure, my
hardware cost me thousands of dollars, though it is not necessary to make
that large an investment in order to provide feeds.

I suppose "pretty well-to-do" would be a qualitative assessment, and I'm not
saying it's untrue of myself.  Certainly, I'm much better off than in 1990,
when I made $40, gross.  Anyway, my recurring costs are $zero above what I'd
incur just from operating my system the way I do for my own personal email.

That is what prompts me to be so generous with my CPU and other resources.
To each his own.


-- 
dawson@willard.UUCP (Willard Dawson)
Willard's House BBS, Atlanta, GA -- +1 (404) 664 8814
Newsgroups: alt.bbs.ads
From: djredick@bluemoon.rn.com (Darrin J. Redick)
Subject: Call...
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 16:10:14 EDT

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  |                                                                      |
  | InterNet: djredick@bluemoon.use.com                                  |
  |______________________________________________________________________|
  |                                                                      |
  | FutureNet : #129@#02 #021@#03  #100@#07  #032@#09  #001@#10 #077@#13 |
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Newsgroups: alt.bbs.ads,alt.personals
From: gomez@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (JL Gomez)
Subject: Southland Matchmaker
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Arizona State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 04:49:39 GMT

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