HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: g92k4260@ru.ac.za (Bryan Kilian)
Subject: Re: Will, but no Word!
Reply-To: csbk@alpha.ru.ac.za
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 18:00:24 GMT

 (EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu) wrote:
> Has anyone noticed that although it's called "the Will and the Word," the word
> part of it is rarely used?
> There have been countless times when someone has done something without saying
> a word.  I'd give specific examples, but I don't have the books with me.
> (Although, how about when Garion was in the snake queen's (her name escapes me
> ) palace in Queen of Sorcery, and he was poisoned.  Remeember how he cured
> himself?)
> 
>           a thought,
              ^^^^^^^^
And what are words? just thoughts expressed in vibrations of air. The word
is a trigger, but it needn't be audible.
   Another thought :-)
Bryan


/////////////////////////: csbk@alpha.ru.ac.za ://////////////////////////
// Bryan Kilian        // This universe never did make sense, I suspect //
// Rhodes University   // that it was built on government contract.     //
// South Africa        //                            - R. A. Heinlein   //
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
   Disclaimer: This message is a product of my own warped imagination
From: hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu (Michael J. Hennebry)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Unmaking, undoing
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:20:25 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

In article <1992Sep30.143623.22734@ccd.harris.com> bwj@controls.ccd.harris.com (Bobby Johnson) writes:
>Then Polgara made the soap vanish!  That sounds a lot like unmaking to me.
>I doubt she just made it invisible.

She changed it into neutrinos.

Belgarath claimed that to undo a sorcerous deed one must think exactly
like the sorceror that did the deed. Belgarath claimed that to do
a sorcerous deed one must understand exactly what one is doing. Belgarath
claimed to lie. That last claim is demonstrably true. The middle one
is demonstrably false. The truth of the first claim depends on precisely
what one means by "undo". Polgara's soap trick pretty much demonstrates
that for practical purposes one sorceror can undo the work of another.
If Zedar cannot move himself, perhaps he can move the world.

-- 
Mike   hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu
"I still thing it's garbage, but beautifully cooked."   --  TP on TP
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: p9b3@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (FLEET)
Subject: Re: Unmaking, undoing
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 20:44:22 GMT

In article <20820@plains.NoDak.edu> hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu (Michael J. Hennebry) writes:
>In article <1992Sep30.143623.22734@ccd.harris.com> bwj@controls.ccd.harris.com (Bobby Johnson) writes:
>>Then Polgara made the soap vanish!  That sounds a lot like unmaking to me.
>>I doubt she just made it invisible.
>
>She changed it into neutrinos.
>
>Belgarath claimed that to undo a sorcerous deed one must think exactly
>like the sorceror that did the deed. Belgarath claimed that to do
>a sorcerous deed one must understand exactly what one is doing. Belgarath
>claimed to lie. That last claim is demonstrably true. The middle one
>is demonstrably false. The truth of the first claim depends on precisely
>what one means by "undo". Polgara's soap trick pretty much demonstrates
>that for practical purposes one sorceror can undo the work of another.
>If Zedar cannot move himself, perhaps he can move the world.

But Polgara doesn't have to undo the sorcery of Belgarath, she has to perform
another act on the soap, such as rendering it to its base molecules, or, 
my favorite, just translocating it into the garbage.  Any sparkling dust motes
are just for effect.  I think that Polgara just got rid of it, she didn't
destroy it.  For that matter, sorcerors can put things into a "place that isn't"the same place that Garion's sword goes when he transforms into a wolf, for
instance.  I still believe that one sorceror cannot DIRECTLY undo the work of
another.

Belgarath probably wrapped Zedar in a hellish variety of sorcerous effects, the
least of which is that he is trapped underground.  He would have to make Zedar
immune from starvation and lack of oxygen.  He probably also cursed him a coupleof times, for good measure, and damaged his abilities to use his power.


>
>-- 
>Mike   hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu
>"I still thing it's garbage, but beautifully cooked."   --  TP on TP
--- 

Dan Fleet   p9b3@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca
            .sig?  What .sig?
From: bwj@controls.ccd.harris.com (Bobby Johnson)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Unmaking
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:38:27 GMT
Organization: Harris Controls Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

v125p7c5@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Michael Lamanna) writes:
: 
: 	She did not make it invisible nor did she unmake it.  I don't remember
: the exact words, but the book said something to the effect that she turned to
: to dust as she blew it off of her hand.  Therefore she did not unmake it she
: made it into dust, and air.
: 

No, I went back and checked.  She blew on it with a "puff" and it vanished.
Maybe she just translocated it somewhere...Or negated the molecular bonding..
or ... etc.

Despite its inconsistancies, this series is in my top 5 list.  Keep it up David!


Bobby Johnson
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: s1070627@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au (Brett Paterson)
Subject: Re: Eddings is washed up as an author
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 06:37:23 GMT

analog@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Monahan) writes:


>several netters have expressed a certain degree of displeasure at the style of
>Eddings' work (repetitive, cliche).

>Hey, guys, who do you think you're talking about?  James Joyce?  Dostoyevsky?   He's a FANTASY author.  Every fantasy novel
>He's a FANTASY author.  Every fantasy novel is by definition a spinoff of the
>Lord of the Rings.  You can't expect the plot to be genius.  You just enjoy
>getting involved in the characters.  Period.  And IMHO no one is much better
at
>reaching out and grabbing your attention than Eddings.  Its just for fun.
>Lighten up.

>Thank you for your attention.

>                The Analog Kid


What an utter load of BULLSHIT!  Saying that every fantasy novel is a spinoff
of the Lord of the Rings, just shows what an ignoramous you are.
  Fantasy authors strive to create original storylines, and do not pop off to
their bookshelf to look up the Lord of the Rings to see if they are doing it
right.
  There are many brilliant fantasy authors out there who have come up with
original & interesting storylines (check out Weis & Hickman for original),
and as well as getting ivolved in characters as you are so fond of, they
have an exciting and active story, not like the books you probably read such
as Mills & Boon.
  Why don't *you* lighten up and stop reading fantasies, if all you think
they are are Lord of the Ring clones.


     +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
    / Brett Paterson                  | "Um.. A vow of silence, that's    //
   / Leongatha 3953.                  |  quite an interesting thing..    //
  / Victoria, Australia.              |  ..Tell me about it."           //
 / <s1070627@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au>  | -Lord Percy to Lord Whiteadder //
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+/
 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

CLAIMER:  The views expressed here are all my employers, and if anything I
          say offends anyone in anyway, then it is all my employers fault.
From: hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu (Michael J. Hennebry)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Sauron =/= Niberlungs
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:06:45 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

In article <1992Oct2.120524.23337@lth.se> f91ke@efd.lth.se (Kristin Einarsdotter) writes:
> Wagner built his story on the ancient nordic saga "The ring of the
> Niberlungs" in which a powerfull ring (much like Tolkien's) plays an 
> important role. Tolkien, on the other hand, took bits and pieces from 

According to JRRT both rings were round and that was the extent of the
resemblance.  If Tom Holt's summary of Wagner's story is correct I agree
with JRRT.

-- 
Mike   hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu
"I still thing it's garbage, but beautifully cooked."   --  TP on TP
From: wright@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Michael G. Wright)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Will, but no Word!
Date: 2 Oct 92 03:23:32 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

>Has anyone noticed that although it's called "the Will and the Word," the word
>part of it is rarely used?
>There have been countless times when someone has done something without saying
>a word.  I'd give specific examples, but I don't have the books with me.
>(Although, how about when Garion was in the snake queen's (her name escapes me
>) palace in Queen of Sorcery, and he was poisoned.  Remeember how he cured
>himself?)

I remember somewhere that Garion had to _think_ a word to get his sorcery 
to work. Maybe the word doesn't necessarily have to be said out loud.
	BTW the instance I am referring to is when he couldn't think up a 
good word to go with the sorcery, so he just used "make it this way", and
just thought that.


-- 
Michael Wright            _-_|\     Peg- "Al, can I have a thousand bucks?" 
LaTrobe University,      /     \     Al- "Why sure honey, have you got change
Melbourne, Australia.    \_.-_*/          for a million?"
wright@latcs1.lat.oz.au       v                Married with children. :-)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: jfarmer@fraser.sfu.ca (Jason Michael Farmer)
Subject: Zedar
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:42:09 GMT

About Zedar.  Belgarath has been quoted many times saying what one "sorcerer"   does another cannot undo.

As for "Be notting" himself out of existance I doubt Zedar would chose that     route as it sounds painful.

Jason Farmer
jfarmer@fraser.sfu.ca
From: EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Zedar, etc.
Date: 26 Sep 92 20:48:10 GMT
 <1992Sep25.161730.15443@Princeton.EDU> <92270.151548U60145@uicvm.uic.edu>
Organization: Penn State University

I still do not understand WHY Zedar cannot simply translocate out of the ground
!
All Belgarath said he did was seal the Earth up over Zedar.  Zedar need not
*undo* (open the Earth) what Belgarath did, but just TRANSLOCATE out.  By
doing this, he would even have to consider what Belgarath was thinking at the
 time.

Any Ideas?
               Eylon Geva
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: r32554j@kaira.hut.fi (Kirsi Lindh)
Subject: Re: Unmaking
Organization: Ze Blob Corp.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:38:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.143623.22734@ccd.harris.com> bwj@controls.ccd.harris.com (Bobby Johnson) writes:
>I was recently re-reading the Mallorian series and noticed an odd event.
>
>Toward the beginning of the first book, when Belgarath Durnik and Polgara were
>fixing up the cottage in the vale, Polgara was making soap by hand.
>
>Belgarath and Polgara  were arguing (what else is new) about how much harder
>and smellier it was to do it by hand.  To prove his point, Belgarath conjured
>up a bar of soap.
>
>Then Polgara made the soap vanish!  That sounds a lot like unmaking to me.
>I doubt she just made it invisible.
>
>Why didn't she explode like Ctuchik did when he tried to unmake the Orb?

I think she just "took it apart", meaning that all the different ingredients
went back where they came from when she made the bar of soap.



-Kriisi
---------------------  In another life your friends never desert you
Kirsi "Kriisi" Lindh I In another life you never have to cry  (Living colour:
r32554j@kaira.hut.fi I In another life no one ever hurts you  This is the life)
---------------------  In this other life your loved ones never die
From: podesta@qut.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Eddings is washed up as an author
Date: 30 Sep 92 13:00:59 EST
Organization: Queensland University of Technology

>> original & interesting storylines (check out Weis & Hickman for original),
>                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>                                                    |||||
>                                                    /////
>                     THEM??? They're just as bad as any other fantasy author. 
> I can think of hundreds of similarities between the Wies-Hickman stories
> and the Lord of the Rings Fantasy standard. That is not to say that they are
> not good authors. I love the Dragonlance series, but saying it is not a
> spinoff of Tolkien's books is ridiculous.
> 
> Bryan

You obviously haven't read Rose of the Prophet or the Darksword trilogy by
Weis & Hickman. They have absolutely NO similarity with Lord of the Rings.
The Magician series also has NO similarity with Lord of the Rings.
You've obviously haven't had much diversity in your reading.

James.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: schwarte@CS.ColoState.EDU (eric schwartz)
Subject: Re: Other authors
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 02:09:28 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <Bv2wLG.n15@newcastle.ac.uk> D.G.Mcreavy@newcastle.ac.uk (D.G. Mcreavy) writes:
>
>Another writer well worth reading is Hans Bemmann, author of 
>Stone and Flute. This huge book is his only work, so there is no question of repetition, or being played out. It is essentially a young

>Dominic McReavy.

Yes!!!! What a Stud!! I thought I was the only one that read Bemmann. This 
guy is too cool, and the depth and breadth of his story is incredible.

Also, check out _The Neverending Story_, by some german gentleman whose name
eludes me for the moment. It's the same one they made that travesty (relatively
speaking) of a movie out of, but sooooo much better, it ain't funny.
German authors seem to have an incredible ability to write fantasy. Check it
out.

-Eric

"If a cow falls in the forest, and nobody hears it, does it still make steak?"

Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: tpenning@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Thomas R Pennington)
Subject: Re: Unmaking
Organization: The Ohio State University
 (Bobby Johnson) writes:
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 01:52:32 GMT

>
>    I don't think invisible is the proper term.  What she did was basically
>separate the molecules that made up the bar of soap and disperse them into the
>air.  Nothing was destroyed, just rearranged.
>
>    That begs the question, why didn't Ctuchik just do that to the Orb
>instead of trying to unmake it?  The Orb might have some defense against
>that, but what about people or large objects?  This may be another flaw in
>the philosophy
(Name and signature deleted)

     What about making it evaporate?  Or teleporting it somewhere?  Also, maybe
old Ctuchik did not think of it.  Remember, he was extremely angry.

-Thomas

(signature coming at a later time)
From: U60145@uicvm.uic.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Unmaking
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:47:05 GMT
 <1992Sep30.163521.12611@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

In article <1992Sep30.163521.12611@cis.ohio-state.edu>,
cantor@moon.cis.ohio-state.edu (scott eric cantor) says:
>
>In article <1992Sep30.143623.22734@ccd.harris.com> bwj@controls.ccd.harris.com
>(Bobby Johnson) writes:
>>I was recently re-reading the Mallorian series and noticed an odd event.
>>
>>Toward the beginning of the first book, when Belgarath Durnik and Polgara
>were
>>fixing up the cottage in the vale, Polgara was making soap by hand.
>>
>>Belgarath and Polgara  were arguing (what else is new) about how much harder
>>and smellier it was to do it by hand.  To prove his point, Belgarath conjured
>>up a bar of soap.
>>
>>Then Polgara made the soap vanish!  That sounds a lot like unmaking to me.
>>I doubt she just made it invisible.
>>
>>Why didn't she explode like Ctuchik did when he tried to unmake the Orb?
>>
>>---
>>Bobby Johnson                          Phone   (407) 242-4261
>
>        I don't think invisible is the proper term.  What she did was
>basically
>separate the molecules that made up the bar of soap and disperse them into the
>air.  Nothing was destroyed, just rearranged.
>
>        That begs the question, why didn't Ctuchik just do that to the Orb
>instead of trying to unmake it?  The Orb might have some defense against
>that, but what about people or large objects?  This may be another flaw in
>the philosophy.
>
>         _______________________________________________________
>        |                                                       |
>        |       Shine on.........                               |
>        |                       Scott <Crazy Diamond> Cantor    |
>        |                                                       |
>        |       [<<<<<< cantor@cis.ohio-state.edu >>>>>>]       |
>        |_______________________________________________________|


I don't think Ctuchik was thinking very clearly when he tried to unmake the
Orb.  After all, he saw Errand offering the Orb to Garion, which would be the
ultimate destruction of all his plans.  I'd say he was a bit distraught.  One
thing I did think of though-- when you get into a situation like that, you tend
to react without thinking in a manner you are accustomed to.  I really doubt
Ctuchik was accustomed to uncreating things....

Grant LeTourneau
From: svenema@gucis.cit.gu.edu.au (Sven Venema)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Domes of Fire
Date: 5 Oct 92 04:31:12 GMT
Organization: Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia.

u921470@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Anthony Chan) writes:

>Oh Does anyone know what High Hunt is about? Is it worth finding?
>I mean I have been to many many books stalls and cannot find it.

>e-mail address u921470@postoffice.utas.edu.au

>Then again I live in Tasmania.

Well, I just managed to find High Hunt the other day, and having
read it I think it is definitely worth finding. It has absolutely
nothing to do with fantasy and is just contemporary fiction, but
it was still a damn fine read. 

Anyway, I really enjoyed it but it might not be to everyone's taste.
-- 
          ___       ___  __   ___  ___   __
         (__  (  ) (__  |  | (__  | | | |__| 
         ___)  \/  (___ |  | (___ | | | |  | @gucis.cit.gu.edu.au
From: v125p7c5@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Michael Lamanna)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Unmaking
Summary: not unmaking
Keywords: disappeared ???
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:49:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


In article <1992Sep30.143623.22734@ccd.harris.com>, bwj@controls.ccd.harris.com (Bobby Johnson) writes...
>I was recently re-reading the Mallorian series and noticed an odd event.
> 
>Toward the beginning of the first book, when Belgarath Durnik and Polgara were
>fixing up the cottage in the vale, Polgara was making soap by hand.
> 
>Belgarath and Polgara  were arguing (what else is new) about how much harder
>and smellier it was to do it by hand.  To prove his point, Belgarath conjured
>up a bar of soap.
> 
>Then Polgara made the soap vanish!  That sounds a lot like unmaking to me.
>I doubt she just made it invisible.


	She did not make it invisible nor did she unmake it.  I don't remember
the exact words, but the book said something to the effect that she turned to
to dust as she blew it off of her hand.  Therefore she did not unmake it she
made it into dust, and air.

						Michael Lamanna
					     University At Buffalo
					       Civil Engineering

	"It is easier to get forgiven than permission."


lamanna@ubunix.cc.buffalo.edu
v125p7c5@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: pmcauley@maths.tcd.ie (Paul Mc Auley)
Subject: Re: Will, but no Word!
Organization: Maths R Us
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:15:22 GMT

In <92275.125236EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu> EXG106@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

|Has anyone noticed that although it's called "the Will and the Word," the word
|part of it is rarely used?
|There have been countless times when someone has done something without saying
|a word.  I'd give specific examples, but I don't have the books with me.
|(Although, how about when Garion was in the snake queen's (her name escapes me
|) palace in Queen of Sorcery, and he was poisoned.  Remeember how he cured
|himself?)

I think that the Word is just to focus the action, you could do without, but
it would be easier to use it.....
	Paul Mc Auley
-- 
__________________________.
Paul Mc Auley             |   God is real . . . . . .
--------------------------|
AKA pmcauley@maths.tcd.ie |        . . . . . . . . Unless Declared an Integer.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: tao@potato.princeton.edu (Terry Tao)
Subject: Re: Unmaking
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:44:25 GMT

Also: the soap was magically created just a minute before Pol blew it away, and
so probably wasn't well formed yet - half-molten, in a way.

notwisthanding, Pol probably knows Belgarath inside out and knows how to
undo the magic, in a way.

My motto is: you can always find an explanation for everything.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: brunborg@solan.unit.no (]dne Brunborg)
Subject: Re: Other authors
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology
Distribution: alt
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 08:20:22 GMT

In article <Sep30.020928.77475@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, schwarte@CS.ColoState.EDU (eric schwartz) writes:
 > In article <Bv2wLG.n15@newcastle.ac.uk> D.G.Mcreavy@newcastle.ac.uk (D.G. Mcreavy) writes:
 > >
 > >Another writer well worth reading is Hans Bemmann, author of 
 > >Stone and Flute. This huge book is his only work, so there is no question of repetition, or being played out. It is essentially a young
 > 
 > >Dominic McReavy.
 > 
 > Yes!!!! What a Stud!! I thought I was the only one that read Bemmann. This 
 > guy is too cool, and the depth and breadth of his story is incredible.
 > 
 > Also, check out _The Neverending Story_, by some german gentleman whose name
 > eludes me for the moment. It's the same one they made that travesty (relatively
 > speaking) of a movie out of, but sooooo much better, it ain't funny.
 > German authors seem to have an incredible ability to write fantasy. Check it
 > out.
 > 
 > -Eric
 > 
 > "If a cow falls in the forest, and nobody hears it, does it still make steak?"
 > 

The "german gentleman" is Michael Ende. Just to clear that point. The book is a
MASTERPIECE! and NOT a J.R.R.T - spinnoff!!

Aadne
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tom-robbins
From: korten@engin.umich.edu (David Kortenkamp)
Subject: Looking for citation
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 22:19:53 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: usa

I'm looking for where the following quote can be found in Tom
Robbins' work:

        "Deep down, all of us are probably aware that some kind of mystical 
evolution is our true task.  Our purpose is to consciously, deliberately 
evolve toward a wiser, more liberated and luminous state of being."

Please reply by e-mail.  Thanks. 
-- 
-David Kortenkamp 
 Artificial Intelligence Laboratory | e-mail: korten@engin.umich.edu
 The University of Michigan         | phone: (313) 763-9074
 1101 Beal Ave.                     | FAX: (313) 763-1260