HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: larryd@stein.u.washington.edu (Larry Desoto)
Subject: Re: Yoshi Hattori
Organization: University of Washington
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:41:43 GMT

bd@fluent@dartmouth.EDU (Brice Dowaliby) writes:

>joel@upchrch.UUCP (Joel Upchurch  ) writes:

>>cecchini@acsu.buffalo.edu (Julie A Cecchini) writes:
>>
>>> The very sad thing is, that he will probably be convicted due
>>> to diplomatic pressure.  Furthermore, I have seen NO evidence
>>> that he *wasn't* trying to break in.
>>
>>While diplomatic pressure may have caused him to be prosecuted, I don't
>>think it will have much effect on the jury's decision to convict or not.
>>Of course the man is ruined either way. Defending himself against the
>>manslaughter charge will probably take everything he has. then there is
>>the prospect that Hatori's family may bring a civil suit against him.
>>Even if he is acquited of the state charges, he may face the cheerful
>>prospect of being charged with violating Hatori's civil rights by the
>>federal government.

>In light of all this hassle, maybe it's not too smart
>to kill unarmed people who are not making any actual threats
>to your life?

The man was apparently in costume and prowling around a side door.  Just
how do you suppose the homeowner was supposed to know if he was
armed or not?  More than one person has gotten themselves killed making
the wrong assumption about whether or not a prowler was armed.

Frankly, most people with even the most rudimentry intelligence can
understand that it might be best to 1) stand still, 2) run away when
someone points a gun at them.  The last thing you would expect an innocent
person to do in this situation is walk toward an armed man.

I don't know what happened that night.  It is for the grand jury to
decide, but I really get furious with people like you that are apparently
happy the man will end up in financial ruin regardless of whether or
not he was justified.  

---
Larry
From: dskim@eng.umd.edu (Daeshik Kim)
Subject: Getting Japanese citizenship (was: finger....)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 15:14:15 GMT
Organization: What Org?

In article <1992Nov18.060308.27770@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>The Koreans have to meet the same requirements for citizenship and residency
>that all the other foreigners must meet.

	Unless I question the morality, I agree on the above with D.J.
	except those who had been brought over to Japan during & before WWII
	not by their will.

	I just hope that all those who were forced to be in Japan for
	generations meet the requrements and get their Japanese citizenship.

	BTW, what's the requirements?  Do they stand a chance w/o marrying
	Japanese citizen?

>It's much easier for a Korean-Japanese to become a Korean citizen than
>for a Taiwanese-Japanese.

	Again, except the morality issue of finger printing, there's not
	much thing to argue.

	However, I'm not quite sure how they (those who brought over to Japan
	not by their will) ended up - I don't think it's fair if they have
	to follow the same requirements.
-- 
	Daeshik Kim	H: (703) 273-1517 O: (703) 689-5878
	DAESHIK.KIM@sprintintl.sprint.com	dskim@eng.umd.edu
	/PN=Daeshik.Kim/O=SprintIntl/ADMD=Telemail/C=US/@Sprint.com
From: lindaa@sooth.Berkeley.EDU (Linda Absher)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Cultural Presumptions
Date: 23 Nov 1992 20:14:16 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sooth.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Nov22.152001.1@sscl.uwo.ca> sakimura@sscl.uwo.ca writes:
>In article <By3pCn.8IH@world.std.com>, rhb@world.std.com (Robert H Brueckner) writesLind Absher writes: (stuff deleted)
 
>>>my friends chide me for being wishy-washy, but I break into a
>>>Cold sweat if I have to state unequivocately what I think.  Needless to
>>>say, I find working in the corporate world confusing.
>> 
>> There's another word for this that has nothing to do with language, but a
>> lot to do with imagination. It's called "paranoia." I sometimes think it
>> must be the national disease of Japan. 
>>
>Hey, you can't call us "PARANOIA." That's realy derogatory!(^^)
>
>   (more stuff deleted)

>Thus, I too, often break into a coldsweat when I have to 
>state things directly. That's the culture.
>You can't call it "PARANOIA." 
>
>I am not denouncing the culture which prefer the direct 
>way of saying things. That's another culture, and you 
>can never say which is better. 
>

Mr. Sakimura has put his finger on what I find to be an enduring problem
in s.c.j., especially in the Yoshi Hattori thread.  So many comments
(pronouncments?) from posters seem to equate American cultural responses
as "common sense".  From an American perspective, the Japanese may seem
"paranoid"; for many years, I was constantly teased for my "paranoia". 
Now as an adult, I see that my "paranoia" was actually my way of perceiving
a speaker's intent by reading facial and/or physical clues.  I also tend to
be very defferential and slightly apologetic when speaking to someone in
authority (for those who claim Japanese women are no longer like that, 
let me explain my mother was considered to be like the "old Japanese".).

It is frustrating to read threads where someone *not* Japanese makes an
assertion which they claim is "sensible," logical" or "reasonable"; it
may seem so, but acculturation is so subtle that what one thinks is 
a universal emotion or reaction may just be a Western response to a
situation.

P.S.: With regards to my "paranoia", more often than not I was right!
-- 
   $  Linda Absher		$ "Jane! Get me off of this               $ 
   $  lindaa@info.Berkeley.EDU	$      crazy thing!!!"                    $
   $				$    -George Jetson, "The Jetsons"        $
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: hiraga@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Yuzuru Hiraga)
Subject: Re: Oh oh more Disney!
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 09:13:54 GMT

In article <Bxzuqs.DBp@world.std.com> cmr@world.std.com (Charles M Richmond) writes:
>	Eisner noted that the French government extended train lines,
>expanded roads and made other significant improvements to accomodate
>Euro Disney, which opened in April. He said foreign visitors to the
>French park will spend nearly $1.5 billion -- more than half of that

Today's news reported that Euro Disney has lost huge money for its
initial six months -- something like $36 million (BTW: the entrance
fee as I hear amounts to $42 (!!)).

Interesting contrast with Tokyo Disneyland, which surely would be
making good profit.

-YH
From: blamb@hri.com (Bill Lambert)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: More on "gaijin" (was Re: Please give your opinions...)
Date: 18 Nov 92 21:25:15 GMT
Organization: Horizon Research, Inc.

In article <BxtuDJ.Jt3@ncifcrf.gov>, masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov
(Michiaki Masuda) writes:

=> .................................................  Japanese culture
=> requires the receiver of the information to be highly imaginative, and
=> the American culture requires the sender of the information to be
=> highly specific.

This is cool. This explains why, when American says something specific,
Japanese imagine that they meant something else, and when Japanese
say something vague, Americans assume they said something specific.

I think that summarizes the trade negotiations in large part :-)

Anyway, I enjoyed Masuda-San's thoughts about basic language differences,
and it also shows that he should stick to words and not guns.

- Bill
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,talk.politics.guns
From: ARCHER@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Re: Yoshi Hattori
Organization: University of Tennessee 
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:06:07 GMT

In article <BD.92Nov16075725@fluent.UUCP> bd@fluent@dartmouth.EDU (Brice Dowaliby) writes:
>In light of all this hassle, maybe it's not too smart
>to kill unarmed people who are not making any actual threats
>to your life?

The whole reason the hassle started was that he DID think that he was 
threatened, and had no way of knowing that the deceased was not armed.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: tygar+@cs.cmu.edu (Doug Tygar)
Subject: Oquesta de la Luz
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 02:13:32 GMT

In article <1992Nov14.032236.23502@u.washington.edu> yoichi@carson.u.washington.edu (Yoichi Ii) writes:
>smittie@beach.csulb.edu (Smittie) writes:
>  >I love Enka!!
>  > ...
>
>Did people see last night's ABC news?  The last news item was about
>this Japanese salsa band which, they said, was quite popular in Japan
>as well as in Latin countries. The name sounded approximately like 
>(I don't know Spanish) Orchestra de la Ruz.  They also showed clips of
>"salsa bars" in Japan. I wonder if there are any such place near Osaka.
>

I don't watch TV, but I have certainly heard Orquesta de la Luz.

Orquesta de la Luz is quite a respectable salsa group.  They have at least
two releases in the US:  Salsa Caliente Del Japon and Sin Fronteras, both
manufactured by CBS Discos (the Latin branch of the Sony empire, based in
Miami.)  I believe that their lead singer, Nora, was raised in South America,
and I think that the band contains several other Nikeijin.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: harkcom@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Alton Harkcom)
Subject: Re: Splitting soc.culture.japan
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 01:44:38 GMT
	<1992Nov13.163847.2239@island.COM> <BxoJt8.CDK@ncifcrf.gov>
Organization: Yokogawa Electric Corporation, Tokyo, Japan

In article <BxoJt8.CDK@ncifcrf.gov> masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov
   (Michiaki Masuda) writes:

 =}In article <1992Nov13.163847.2239@island.COM> fester@island.COM
 =}    (Mike Fester) writes:
 =}
 =}>Perhaps we could ask those participants currently living in Japan to 
 =}>occasionally post things from the papers or news that might be of interest.
 =}>
 =}>Well, Mr Harckom? Anything good in the press these days?
 =}
 =}   Do you mean "anything bad"? B-)

   Is that bit directed at me? [Yes, I noticed the smiley... :]

BTW: Please, call me Al.  (Or is that "you can call me Al..." :)

   Since my last post on current events in Japan attracted too much email
flamage I had given up a second time on even trying...  But since there
are some people out there who seem to want current events then I guess I
can learn to ignore the ignorance (thereby becoming ignore-ant myself)?

   A recent news topic:

   In New York, many hairdressers charged seperate prices for men and
women.  This was because of an asssumption that men usually have less
hair than women.  However, men with longer hair were charged extra
(same as women) while women with short hair were not usually given any
discounts.  This was being fought as a form of sexual discrimination
and apparently is now an illegal practice.  Prices were shown as
running from roughly $25 and up for men and $35 and up for women.
The situation was compared to Japan were men and women pay the same
at a hairdresser (usually depending on length and services performed).
A trim for someone with short hair usually runs about 3000 yen.  A
shampoo adds about 500 yen.  (Note: the hairdressers mentioned above do
not include barbers)...

   This news bit was accompanied by a lot of praise for the US in how
things that are broken can be fixed by common citizens if they have
enough support...

   All flames directed at the content of the news can be sent directly
to the Emperor himself (he told me so)...  Any criticisms or discussion
of the content should be posted to this group.  Any flames calling me
a Japan-Brownnoser or a Japan-Basher can be politely shoved up the
the flamer's ***.  (I guess I'm not handling this as well as I should
yet :)
From: oi@cs.meiji.ac.jp (Hitoshi Oi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Wedding of Taka-Rie
Date: 23 Nov 92 14:42:33 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Meiji University, Japan.

Takahanada and Miyazawa Rie's wedding takes place on May 28. 
Sadaharu Oh will be their "NAKODO."
--
$@4X@>J[8!Dj=`#15i(J
From: justin@nx30.mik.uky.edu (justin sullivan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Yoshi Hattori
Date: 24 Nov 92 01:25:15 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
X-Path: nx30.mik.uky.edu!justin

In <1992Nov23.165738.1384@island.COM> fester@etorofu.island.COM () writes:

>Well, Japanese TV shows (especially the afternoon 'hard-boiled' detective
>shows) quite often show fancy gunplay (detective gets off about 37 rounds
>from his .38 detective special, completely missing the culprit who is only about
>15 feet away UNTIL the culprit takes a hostage, at which point the detective
>shoots the knife out of said culprit's hand at about 75 yards). My guess is 
>that the the young man didn't even notice the revolver. Before you ask "How
>could he NOT see the gun?", remember how many accidents are caused by people
>in autos who "don't see" the other auto, truck, tree, etc, all of which are
>assuredly larger than a revolver. Then bear in mind that the driver in my 
>example would (should, more properly) be looking for other dangers, but a
>guy approaching a house may not be looking for a weapon, particularly if he
>is approaching the house with absolutely no bad intent, or even with friendly
>intent.

  Ugh.. And I thought the Brady Bunch was hard to come home to. :)
Speaking of typical Japanese television.. I've seen some contemporary
Japanese films, and well..They're awful. The acting is terrible.
Just an observation.. Granted, Hollywood puts out mountains of garbage
every year, but (by mistake, I'm sure) good ones come to a theater near
you every now and then. 
  When I saw some of the new stuff, I was really surprised.. The films back
in them good 'ole days (long before my time :) are superior to these
modern flicks. Remember "Toshiro Mifune?" Not an academy-award winner,
but it was an interesting film. Arguably, on par with "The Maltese Falcon."
There's an even older one about some sort of labor camp or prison that involves
a broken samurai. Pretty funny, too.. There was a scene where the samurai
gets angry with his cellmates (about five minutes after he arrives, of course)
and starts going on about what he would do if he only had a sword.. He 
says: "I used to be a good samurai.." and a peasant hands him a stick and
says: "Here.. This used to be a good sword!" Every 'classic' Japanese film
I've ever seen is subtitled, fortunately.
  The master of Japanese cinema, in my opinion, is Akira Kurosawa. He's
an artiste! :) "Dreams" is the best of its kind (I have to look for it in
the 'alternative' section in the video store, so it must be to artsy for most
people :). Fine film and a fine filmmaker. I used some of the themes in 
"Dreams" in my new novel. Kurosawa-san is an inspiration..
  Wish I could say the same for the new stuff.. <ick>
Xref: sparky soc.culture.japan:11065 talk.politics.guns:24296
From: shaffer@achilles.ctd.anl.gov (Michael A. Shaffer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Yoshi Hattori
Date: 19 Nov 92 18:15:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: mcs.1992Nov19.181535.22714
Distribution: usa
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory

In article <SMITTIE.92Nov18141241@beach.csulb.edu>, smittie@csulb.edu (Smittie) writes:
|> >Frankly, most people with even the most rudimentry intelligence can
|> >understand that it might be best to 1) stand still, 2) run away when
|> >someone points a gun at them.  The last thing you would expect an innocent
|> >person to do in this situation is walk toward an armed man.
|> 
|> This is completely logical for someone who has grown up in a society where guns
|> are commonplace. However, it is not necessarily logical to someone, especial a
|> young person, who grows up in a society where guns are all but nonexistant.
|> 
|> smittie
|> -- 
|>                              Tada mono de ha nai
|> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|> GEnie, MCI, AOL:Smittie   All of these accounts except MCI will die on or
|> smittie@beach.csulb.edu   about Dec 31. UNIX will be forwarded for 2 weeks.

Unless of course the Japanese watch American movies.

				mike
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: cmr@world.std.com (Charles M Richmond)
Subject: An aye for an eye
Organization: Integrated International Systems Corp. One Longfellow Place, Suite 3309, Boston, Ma.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 03:59:39 GMT


Well doctor, I have just retired , so I have all this time on my hands...
Why don't we schedule that surgery... no hurry , anytime this afternoon will
do.


	TOKYO (UPI) -- Disgraced political kingmaker Shin Kanemaru underwent
cataract surgery on his right eye Monday amid mounting pressure from
opposition parties for him to testify in Parliament over his role in a
political funding scandal.
	The 78-year-old former vice president of the ruling Liberal
Democratic Party (LDP) is suffering from glaucoma and will have to be
hospitalized for at least three weeks, said Kanemaru's doctor, Kozo
Saeki, at the Odawara Municipal Hospital southwest of Tokyo.
	Opposition parties denounced the move, calling the sudden
hospitalization an attempt to escape testifying at the Diet, Japan's
Parliament. Parliamentary regulations stipulate the bedside questioning
can be conducted when those summoned as sworn witnesses cannot appear
before the Diet for health reasons.
	The opposition camp has been demanding that Kanemaru and former Prime
Minister Noboru Takeshita testify about the Tokyo Sagawa Kyubin scandal.
	Sadao Yamahana, secretary general of the Social Democratic Party
(SDP), the largest opposition group, said the ruling Liberal Democratic
Party (LDP) was trying to avoid humiliating testimony by putting
Kanemaru in the hospital.
	``We don't know the details of his physical condition,'' Yamahana
said. ``Until it is confirmed, we will continue efforts to realize
Kanemaru's Diet testimony.''
	Meanwhile the LDP came out officially for the first time for having
Takeshita testify.
	Kanemaru resigned from the House of Representatives and gave up his
position as chairman of the LDP's most powerful faction last month to
atone for accepting a $4 million illegal contribution from Tokyo Sagawa
Kyubin, a now-defunct trucking firm.
	As head of the group founded by Takeshita, Kanemaru had a key role in
picking the last four prime ministers.
	A bitter leadership struggle has left the 109-member group on the
verge of breaking up. There are four other factions in the LDP.
	The SDP, the Democratic Socialist Party and Komeito (Clean Government
Party) have said that unless Kanemaru, Takeshita, Kanemaru's secretary
Masahisa Haibara and Hiroyasu Watanabe, former Tokyo Sagwa president,
are summoned, they will not deliberate a supplementary budget to finance
the government's economic stimulus package.
	Both Kanemaru and Takeshita have been under fire for alleged ties
with mobsters.

-- 
*****************************************************************************
*  Charles Richmond 	Integrated International Systems Corporation        *
*  cmr@world.std.com	(Temporary) cmr@koneko.shr.dec.com		    *
*  Specializing in UNIX, X, Image Processing, and Communications.           *
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda)
Subject: Re: More on "gaijin" (was Re: Please give your opinions...)
Organization: Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 02:35:24 GMT

In article <DIRCEU.92Nov20202830@nashi.taurus.cse.kyutech.ac.jp> dirceu@taurus.cse.kyutech.ac.jp (Dirceu G. Cavendish Jr.) writes:
>In article <BxtuDJ.Jt3@ncifcrf.gov> masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda) writes:
.....
> > Japanese culture
> >requires the receiver of the information to be highly imaginative, and
> >the American culture requires the sender of the information to be
> >highly specific.

>Have you noticed the capacity of people on TV have to talk for hours
>without saying anything?
.....
>...for example,
>in those debates or TV shows where discussions take place. Sometimes I
>count up three or four consecutive meaningless sentences, or 5
>minutes of non-stop talk with no meaning at all, from people who are
>there invited to provide opinions about some topic.

  Cavendish-san, those TV shows are training programs for us to expand our 
imagination.

  Some advanced people are watching another training program -- Kokkai Chuukei.

--Michiaki
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: sakimura@sscl.uwo.ca
Subject: Re: More on "gaijin" (was Re: Please give your opinions...)
Organization: Social Science Computing Laboratory
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 19:20:01 GMT

In article <By3pCn.8IH@world.std.com>, rhb@world.std.com (Robert H Brueckner) writes:
> lindaa@sooth.Berkeley.EDU (Linda Absher) writes:
>>
>>As someone raised by a Japanese women, the result of such differences
>>In language approach has resulted in the fact that I'm great
>>at reading meanings (true or false) into what most people say.  Many
>>of my friends chide me for being wishy-washy, but I break into a
>>Cold sweat if I have to state unequivocately what I think.  Needless to
>>say, I find working in the corporate world confusing.
> 
> There's another word for this that has nothing to do with language, but a
> lot to do with imagination. It's called "paranoia." I sometimes think it
> must be the national disease of Japan. 
>
Hey, you can't call us "PARANOIA." That's realy derogatory!(^^)

Most Japanese who was raised strictly are taught that they have
to use "Euphemism" whenever possible and saying something 
directly is VERY VERY VERY impolite. (This kind of preference 
towards euphemism is not unique to Japan. Take a look at what
diplomats are doing.) And, more subtle the euphemism, more
polite it is.

Thus, I too, often break into a coldsweat when I have to 
state things directly. That's the culture.
You can't call it "PARANOIA." 

I am not denouncing the culture which prefer the direct 
way of saying things. That's another culture, and you 
can never say which is better. 

Thinking one'sway is better and try to impose this to 
the other is called "Colonialism." It's a sad fact that 
many people (including many Japanese) still indulge into
this "Colonialism." 

--
Natsu Sakimura
From: smittie@csulb.edu (Smittie)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: What's REALLY wrong with you guys.
Date: 20 Nov 92 06:34:27 GMT
Organization: Cal State Long Beach


 wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.MIL (Wm. Douglas Withers) wrote:
>I think I've figured out what is the most shameful and despicable aspect
>of Japanese culture: namely, the belief that no public event is complete

Uhmm? At first I thought this was flame bait. But I got to thinking about it.
If this (speechs at weddings and such) is the most shameful and despicable
thing that Mr. Withers can find in Japanese society it seems to me at least
possible that Mr. Withers thinks pretty highly of Japanese society, no?

smittie

-- 
                             Tada mono de ha nai
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
GEnie, MCI, AOL:Smittie   All of these accounts except MCI will die on or
smittie@beach.csulb.edu   about Dec 31. UNIX will be forwarded for 2 weeks.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan