HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organisation: European Space Operation Centre (E.S.O.C)
Date: Thursday, 3 Sep 1992 16:43:03 CET
From: P.Long <PLONG@ESOC.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject:    Fig trees - when to expect first crop ?

I have two fig trees grown from cuttings which are now in their third year.
Last year there were a few immature fruit, now one of the trees has about 50
fruit which look quite promising.

Is it reasonable to expect them to ripen in the 3rd year and would it be
helpful to prune out the weaker ones to encourage the others.

The climate here in SW Germany is not the best for this Mediterranean fruit
but its been a hot summer...   does anyone have some experiences to share ?

Thanks, Peter
From: ns@bohr.physics.purdue.edu (Nancy M. Schnepp)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Looking for LUCILLE BALL rose
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:44:55 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Physics Department

It was reported that Jackson & Perkins were going to have
the rose named for the late comedian Lucille Ball for sale
this fall for spring planting.  Has anyone spotted it yet?
Please e-mail if possible. Thanks!!!



Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: bobw@csg.uwaterloo.ca (Bob Wildfong)
Subject: Re: unusual monarda
Organization: Computer Systems Group, University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 21:47:35 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.140223.4892@kodak.kodak.com> bryant@neural.Kodak.COM (Steve Bryant) writes:
> The flower clusters on this one plant did not terminate in the usual single cluster. Instead the stem continued on straight up through the center of the cluster and ended in a second cluster.
>
>Does anyone know if this is common to bee balm? I've looked through several flower books but none make mention of this behavior.

This happened to my monarda plants last year.  I didn't expect it either.

Bob Wildfong                                       bobw@csg.uwaterloo.ca
Waterloo, Ontario                                  bobw@csg.waterloo.edu
AgCan zone 5a, USDA zone 4 (on a windy hilltop)
From: jhb@calmasd.prime.com (Jim Bishop)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Flame: Why Kay Gardens
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:44:17 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: -

In article <1992Sep10.181838.19131@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>, 
dmiller@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller) writes:
>>> Why would any American bother vegetable gardening when we have such
>>> abundant, cheap food?  We know you love gardening, Kay.  You just enjoy
>>> being around living plants.  Don't give me that "slob-gardener"
>>> least-effort crap!  How about explaining to us what you *really* get out
>>> of gardening?  :-)
>>
>>(Kay, I hope you don't mind me defending you.)  Doug what's your point
>>here.  I think Kay talks about what she gets out of gardening all the
>>time.  I also feel very fortunate that she likes to share her knowledge. 
>>Your accusative tone sounds like you believe there are *evil* reasons
>>for gardening or something.  Just what are you implying?
>>> 
>>> -=> Doug Hemken
>>
>>Jim (who hopes that this whole thing wasn't a joke and he didn't get
>>it)
> 
> _I_ thought it was a joke, or anyway a (gentle) elbow in the ribs kind of 
> joshing.
> 
> Nice of you to jump to Kay's defense, but I don't think she needs/needed 
> any help.  She's pretty good at defending herself when necessary.
> 
> --Jill

Well, I'm a little embarrassed to follow up on this since I wish this
thread would just die.  I've apologized to Kay and explained that my
humor detector wasn't working the other night.  (I've got to get some
new batteries.  Happens all the time with garage door opener too.)

My apologies to anyone else I offended by going overboard.


To continue the lazy gardener thread.  I don't can or freeze (except
pesto) anything.  Living in San Diego there is always something in
season.  By the time I have enough of something to freeze, I'm bored
eating it (or it's spoiling already).  Eating what's in season is
about as close as you can get to feeling the seasons here.  (i.e.
Citrus, lettuce, and peas it's winter, strawberries it's spring,
tomatoes and basil it's summer, more tomatoes and basil it's our fall
that feels more like summer than summer, and so on.)

Jim
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: Doug.Hemken@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Doug Hemken)
Subject: Re: why bother with corn?!!
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:09:52 GMT


Kay writes:

> Me, I gave up growing sweetcorn several years ago.  Why should I dig all 
> that ground, plant, water and mulch, when the neighbors with 3 or 4 acres
> of sweetcorn are willing to sell me as much as I want for an entire season
> for $5?

Sounds like sour grapes to me :-)

We all know that there is much more reason to garden than just harvesting
(or seeing) the end product.  If all I cared about was the end produce,
I'd buy vegetables from a local low-chemical producer.  But I like
observing how the soil changes as I work it.  I enjoy the sight of all
those pea flowers, telling me that there will be a heavy harvest in a few
weeks.  I like growing yet another generation of the sprawling field
pumpkin that has followed me wherever I have gone since we left our home
along the Kentucky River.  I especially like seeing seeds germinate and
sprout -- any seeds!

Why would any American bother vegetable gardening when we have such
abundant, cheap food?  We know you love gardening, Kay.  You just enjoy
being around living plants.  Don't give me that "slob-gardener"
least-effort crap!  How about explaining to us what you *really* get out
of gardening?  :-)

-=> Doug Hemken
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Test
Date: 11 Sep 92 12:33:51 CST
Reply-To: bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org
Organization: Multitasking Systems, Kansas City
Followup-To: rec.gardens

This is a test of our systems gating ability. Anyone outside of Kansas
City, MO receiving this message, please email me. And thanks in advance!


*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Bob Batson
bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org                             (Preferred)
bob.batson@ivgate.omahug.org                            (Alternate)
From: denisec@amadeus.wr.tek.com (Denise Caire)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: recipe request:marinara and pizza sauce (was white flys)
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:24:20 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

Arnold M Zwicky writes:
>...  we
>want to make marinara sauce,...

I would love to have a recipe for marinara sauce (from scratch using
fresh tomatoes) and for pizza sauce.  I made spagetti sauce (meatless
for canning) one year and simply boiled some of it down adding italian
spices for pizza sauce.  It was pretty good but it would be nice to have
a bonafide recipe.  I love marinara sauce so I hope someone out there
has a recipe for this as well.  These sauces freeze fine.

Thanks in advance,
Denise
From: cusanell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Dominic Cusanelli)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: cheese in frozen pesto?
Date: 13 Sep 92 12:06:42 GMT
Reply-To: cusanell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Dominic Cusanelli)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD


  OK, now that we've changed the subject from "cheese in pesto"
to "nuts in pesto" - I had to put my 2 cents worth in again.
My wife and I experimented with all different kinds of nuts
in our pesto (traditional pine nuts, walnuts, cashews, and
pistachios).  We found that we like the pistachio flavor
best of all.  Yes it does change the overall flavor - but
we think for the better.  (Oh I tried peanuts also)  Has
anyone else experimented with untraditional flavors in
their pesto?  I've always used the Italian sweet basil, but
next year I'm thinking of doing some fooling around with other
basil varieties - any suggestions.

...Dominic
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 08:20:50 -0400 
From: Chriss_Stephens@transarc.com
Subject: germinating black walnuts

Does anyone know how to germinate black walnuts or know where to look such
information up?

					Thanks,
					Chriss
From: rees@qut.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Naturalism---Could we have a group?
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:35:03 EST
Organization: Queensland University of Technology

X-NEWS: wattle rec.gardens: 7072
Relay-Version: VMS News - V6.0 1/9/90 VAX/VMS V5.5; site qut.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Naturalism---could we have a group?
From: 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 14:52:33 GMT
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Organization: out in linguistics, etc.
Summary: how not to ask a simple question

in article <1992Sep7.145233.20296@cis.ohio-state.edu>
amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:

>in article <VSUMMERS.92Sep7092233@polaris.cv.nrao.edu>
>vsummers@polaris.cv.nrao.edu (vince summers) writes:
>
> >     This is probably not the place to ask the subject question, but then
> >I don't know proper procedure.
> >     Have you notice[d] that a large portion of GNUS is devoted to stupid
> >subjects like bestiality, homosexuals, hamsters and duct tape, sex pictures,
> >etc.?     
> >     Not one to wildflowers, birds, trees, naturalism (I think).
> >... Couldn't someone, perhaps from rec.gardens(?)
> >who is familiar with the computer system, has the interest if not the
> >knowledge, and who has the time, pursue this for us?  
>
>surely it would be possible to ask this simple question - is there any
>interest in a nature study / natural history newsgroup? - without
>gratuitous insults (there are a thousand or so newsgroups, each with
>its own reason for being; no one is forcing this fool to read any of
>them, nor is anyone interested in his opinion about whether they are
>worthwhile or not), malicious fabrications (there is no group devoted
>to hamsters and duct tape, nor has any actual human being ever messed
>around with hamsters in the fashion this idiot seems to be alluding
>to), and outright falsehoods (a very tiny number of the newsgroups are
>devoted to sex-related topics, and a very tiny number - three, by my
>count - of *them* are concerned in any way with homosexuality).
>
>in fact, it seems to me that this way of presenting the question
>virtually guarantees that no one will pursue the question.  who
>would want to associate themselves with such a mean-spirited buffoon?
>                                            
>as a very amateur but enthusiastic wildflower person, i think this
>would be a shame.
>
>perhaps the proposal could be allowed to die away for the moment, and
>later be reintroduced by someone with some intelligence and some
>humanity.
>
>arnold 


Umm, sorry to be highly inflammatory here, but, err... there IS, in fact
a newsgroup

alt.sex.bestiality.hamsters.duct-tape

atleast on our news feed here - mebbe its been censored at your site.
More importantly however, I think Vince was only having a little joke
there (you know, the pretty wildflowers juxtaposed against some of the
more esoteric of the alt.sex groups, etc). I don't think he meant to
offend anyone, & he's probably not an idiot or a mean-spirited buffoon
at all - he's probably a very nice chap indeed.

Chill out dudes!

Darryl Rees

PS. I actually think hamsters are kind of cute!
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Mediterranean climate (was: zones)
Organization: noitazinagrO
	<1992Sep8.124750.765@calmasd.prime.com> 
	<1992Sep8.190327.6577@iscsvax.uni.edu>
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:37:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.190327.6577@iscsvax.uni.edu> 
klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>I would not classify San Francisco as a true Med-type climate-- there
>is (normally) no summer drought to speak of.

What do you mean exactly? Are you talking about fog drip? But I agree with
you, SF is more of a seasonal-rainfall, cool, subTropical climate where
daily temperature range usually exceeds seasonal temperature range. Let's
see, average summer 65-55, average winter 55-45. I guess daily range is
equal to seasonal in this case. BTW: I think SF's average winter low is
about 35 which would make it USDA zone 10, but good luck trying to grow
mangos there. (Insufficient heat units)
From: tomb@hplsla.hp.com (Tom Bruhns)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Raising PH
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:30:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: hplsla.5700032
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA

pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey) writes:

>Wow, 5.5, that might be eating the pipes. Normally the problem is an
>alkaline water source which is corrected with swimming pool acid, (Muriatic).
>To correct for acidity, you want a strong base, like LYE?

Well, you can certainly make a solution more basic with a strong base,
but there's a tremendous potential for going overboard.  You'd be a
lot better off using a buffer, which has a lot of ions in it which work
to keep the pH constant in spite of some outside influence adding H+ or
OH- ions, at least up to a point.  If you can use ions which aren't
harmful in moderation (or maybe even helpful), then you can have kinda
the best solution, so to speak.  (sorry...)  Anyway, there are lots
of reasonable ions to consider here, like ammonium, phosphate and
potassium, in combination with hydrogen and hydroxide.  You probably
would want to keep it pretty weak, even though (or maybe because) these
are standard fertilizer ions, so it wouldn't be as good a buffer as a
concentrated solution, but it would still be better than just using
strong acids or bases to adjust pH.

As an example, let's see what _one_drop_ of concentrated HCl would do
to the pH of a liter of pure water.  It's been a lot of years, so I
may mess this up, but someone will correct me if so, I'm sure ;-)
One drop is about 1/20 ml, or about 1/20,000 of the total volume.
It will essentially 100% dissociate in the water, and assuming a
density about the same as the water, and 20% HCl in the concentrated
acid, one drop adds about 2.8x10^-4 moles of hydrogen ions.  That's 
going to yield a pH of about 3.5!  Buffers work (typically) by binding
hydrogen and/or hydroxide ions to other ions, so they aren't allowed
to affect the pH; but if you try to change the pH, the free ions will
gobble up excess, or the bound ions will release more, to bring things
back toward the original pH.  To work out a buffer, you'd look up
dissociation constants of the various ions you would use with OH- and
H+.  Or just pay someone else to make the buffer for you...
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: gere@umunhum.stanford.edu (Susan Gere)
Subject: Re: naturalism
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: rec.gardens
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 17:43:52 GMT

Vince Summers, a foreigner, writes many irrelevant comments
along with a request for a new group (--btw, how about rec.nature?
no need to get hung up on suffixes).

 Presumably if Mr Summers' expressed preference for goldenrod over 
ragweed entailed the potential loss of home, employment, family, 
personal safety, children, and even life, he would in his turn be 
overly-sensitive to those seeking to vilify nature appreciation groups.

 It has been the pleasant and almost unique nature of rec.gardens 
to have a near absence of flamage, despite the heat generated on
occasion by compost and bacteria.  And I don't doubt this is only
a momentary disturbance.  But if in the future anyone claiming to 
discuss only ragweed pollen would eliminate personal opinions on
unrelated subjects, he would find only related responses. 'Nuff said?

______smg______  ____Who Appreciates both Snails and Oysters_______
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez)
Subject: fruit trees from seeds
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 02:01:02 GMT

I am responding to the poster who wanted to grow fruiting trees from seeds
and wanted to know the sex of the seeds.  First of all, many fruit species
require different varieties, not differently sexed trees (exceptions include
avocadoes and, I believe, black sapote [Diospiros digyna]).  I can't answer
your specific question but as an almost evangelic fruit growing enthusiast,
I must urge you to give up the idea of growing your fruit trees from 
seeds, at least if you are into reliable production of good quality fruit.
If you have the space and inclination to experiment and maybe as a result
come out with new horticultural varieties, i.e., if you dream of being
another Luther Burbank (not a BAD ambition certainly) and have the acreage,
then go for it.   If you want simply good, reliably fruiting trees, go to 
a reputable local nursery (Personally I do not recommend the garden centers
hooked up to big home improvement warehouses, but dedicated nurseries) and
buy a named variety. If you go in early spring you can buy these bareroot for
very modest cost.

Once you have some good reliable fruit trees that please you, then you might
grow young seedling trees as rootstock, graft budwood onto these and thereby
expand the number of named variety trees you have available.

This paragraph should have gone above the last but I am in a weird word
processing program and can't manage it so here is the reason why I am
warning against trying to grow fruit trees from seeds.  With some exceptions
(such as strawberry guava) trees do not come true from seed.  That is, 
the parent tree may have certain characteristics (leaf shape, heighth,
heavy fruit bearing, alternate fruit-bearing, good fruit, poor fruit, etc.
but those characteristics may not be, probably won't be, passed on to the
descendants. That is, the commercial plum tree that produces heavily every
year might, by seed, give an offspring tree that gives only 3 or 4 plums
a year, and those maybe of different quality.  The exceptional varieties that
become the trees in our commercial orchards, and sold in nurseries, are
vegetatively propagated.  Whilke there is always the possibility that
your seed-started fruit tree may produce something wonderful, more likely
all you'll end up with (after 8-10 years waiting for the tree to mature)
is a decent shade tree.  (Another reason to buy your tree from a nursery
Likely as not the variety budded onto the rootstock is going to be from 
sexually mature wood which means you'll get fruit years earlier. 
(this is especially true of the Rosacaeae family, that includes plums,
peaches,nectarines, almonds, apples etc. etc.)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: palmerp@math.orst.edu (Paul A Palmer)
Subject: Re: More (hot) pepper questions
Followup-To: rec.gardens
Reply-To: Paul Palmer <palmerp@math.orst.edu>
Organization: Dept. of Math, Oregon State University
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 00:02:10 GMT

In article <6889@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> thomase@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Stan England) writes:

   In a previous post to this topic, Judy Karpen asked if there would
   be any interest in a gardening newsgroup. I tried to respond directly
   to Judy but the mail bounced back. I would like to see such a group,
   perhaps rec.gardening and if there was enough interest then maybe 
   the subgroup that Judy suggest could be rec.gardening.organic.

There is already a group called rec.gardens.

--
Paul Palmer
Department of Mathematics     	E-mail: palmerp@math.orst.edu
Kidder Hall 368
Oregon State University, Corvallis, Oregon 97331-4605
From: sbs@drfish7.dr.att.com (Sandy Burke Slowey)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Bechtel Crab bark peeling & rusty
Keywords: crabapple,disease
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:27:08 GMT

Our once beautiful Bechtel Crab is looking sick.  Its trunk bark is peeling
and the trunk is rust colored where the bark is gone.  The leaves on the upper 
and middle limbs are curled and slightly yellowing.  Does anyone have a clue
what is going on and how I can stop it?

Thanks,
Sandy Burke Slowey
Denver, Colorado
sbs@druhi.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: tadams@sbctri.sbc.com (Tom. Adams 529-7860)
Subject: Recommend book to learn Latin plant names?
Organization: Southwestern Bell Technology Resources, St.Louis, MO
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 92 02:59:55 GMT

I'm interested in learning the proper names for plants.  Can anyone
recommend a good book on the subject?  Perhaps more importantly, 
can you recommend a source for said good book?
-- 
Tom Adams	tadams@sbctri.sbc.com adams@swbatl.sbc.com   314-529-7860
misology (mi-sohl'-ogee) Hatred of reason, argument, or enlightenment.
--  misologist n.	Not in any way connected to the word management.
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: ahill@boi.hp.com (Andy Hill)
Subject: Re: Wildflowers to Naturalism
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 23:55:47 GMT
Distribution: rec.gardens
Reply-To: ahill@boi.hp.com
Organization: LaserJets by Bill & Dave
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes) writes:
>    Obnaturalism:  I found a DeKay's snake, or little brown snake,
>    _Storeria dekayi_ (at least it was years ago, maybe it's changed?)
>    while digging out for a pond.  One of my favorites, I used to
>    keep them as a kid.  Eats SNAILS and SLUGS!
>
And earthworms.  As a child, I used to get a kick out of watching my pet
Dekay's snake wrestle down earthworms as big as he was.  Hated to let
him go...
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: AVRK90@waccvm.corp.mot.com (Kevin Cox)
Subject: Re: Propogating Ficus Benjamina
Organization: Motorola
Date: 8 Sep 1992 17:46:44 MST

I've heard that you can't grow ficus' from the figs they produce.  I was
going to prove 'them' wrong, so I tried it.  I wasted my time.  Nothing
grew.  One of the ways I've heard that you CAN propagate ficus is to put
damp sphagnum moss on one of the branches, wrap plastic around it and
tie the ends to keep the moisture in.  After a few weeks, roots should
start to form in the sphagnum moss.  Once you feel they are ready to be
planted in soil, cut the branch below the roots and plant your new
cutting!  Hope it works for you.

Kevin
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: gretchen@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Gretchen A Hitselberger)
Subject: Re: Tree Peonies From Seed - (Revised) Questions.
Reply-To: gretchen@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Gretchen A Hitselberger)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 23:09:47 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.195653.6665@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>I've grown ordinary peonies from seed that I harvested, mixed with 
>damp sphagnum and sand, and shoved into the vegetable drawer of the 
>refrigerator for a few months (until I accidentally excavated these
>treasures, to be precise).  

Ah!! An opportunity to ask my question!  Is the vegetable bin in the 
refrigerator an appropriate substitue for the 'root cellar' especially 
when forcing bulbs?

Unfortunately, my studio apartment in NYC didn't come with a root cellar!

Newsgroups: rec.gardens