From: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: COMMODORE - HERE'S A CLUE
Date: 28 Sep 92 09:25:30 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

danaf@bray1a.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.) writes:
>In article <8456@orbit.cts.com>, chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch) writes:
>|> kontos@clipper.ingr.com (Thorne Kontos) writes:
>|> >HEY COMMODORE, PAY ATTENTION ...
>|> 
>|> huh?  wha?  did you say something?
>
>Do you work for Commodore? 

No, i was just pointing out that who is he to try to make ANYONE pay attention
with these sorts of demands.

>|> Both the Atari and Apple *NEED* 030 based machines to do the job a 68000 or
>|> 020 based Amiga could do.  Since their graphics systems suck so much CPU time,
>|> they need higher powered CPU's just to be usable.  In apples case, you need an
>|> 030 just to make their OS usable.
>
>That's bullsh*t. It's absolutely no justification for running the greatest
>multimedia computer in the world at sub-light speeds when it could be running
>at warp factor 9!
>
>How much more expensive **IS** a 68020? I'd bet the chip itself is under $100
>now, and I'd be SHOCKED if it's over $200. So, for the extra $100, we could
>have a 68020-based Amiga. It's worth it, believe me!

That's $100 dollars manufacturing cost, which translates easily to a $200-300
dollar street cost added.  You expect commodore to make machines for no
profit?  That's stupid.  The justification is that if a machine is usable at
7Mhz, why put more cost into it if you don't need it.

>I've never had a problem with Commodore's upgrade path. I agree that it's better
>than any other computer manufacturer out there. I'D rather be satisfied in 
>terms of what Commodore is doing FOR THE FUTURE, not what they're doing FOR
>THE PAST. So far, no dice.

No dice?  You mean an expandable CPU module is no dice?  Hell, if need be
commodore could put a daughterboard onto the cpu module to put AAGA chip into
the thing...

>
>|> > 3) CD-ROM or a CDTV SOLUTION for all your products. 
>|> 
>|> funny, i don't see any other computer manufacturer shipping CD-Roms in every
>|> system they produce... what a stupid idea..
>
>You are dense, aren't you? He said SOLUTIONS, as in, optional equipment. Of
>course nobody ships CD-ROMs with each of their computers - but they're available
>for each and every model! Not on the Amiga... at least, not without a major 
>headache...

Funny, i can hook a CD-Rom up to *ANY* Amiga for exactly the same cost as an
IBM, maybe even cheaper.  Since most IBM's don't have SCSI you would have to
buy a SCSI card for either case.  You can use virtually any Mac or PC CD-Rom
drive with their standard and Amiga formats.  All you need is the $49 dollar
CD-Rom File System.  No problem.  Any Amiga.

>
>|> NewTek DELIBERATELY made the toaster against specifications.  I'm sure they
>|> had a 3000 long before the toaster even shipped, they certainly knew the specs
>|> years before the toaster shipped.
>
>Oh, come on! Bet you think the breakup of the Soviet Union is just another 
>Commie plot, too. I just lost what little respect I had for you.

Excuse me?  NewTek screws up and expects C= to fix it for them?  I don't
understand.  Look at any 1987 2000 Technical manual.  It shows the specs for
the video card form factor.  NewTek chose to ignore them.  Specifically the
toaster was designed to fit in a 2000 chassis, nothing else.

>Great! Wonderful! Altho I think it's real stupid to put Amiga ads in AmigaWorld,
>where 90+% of the readers own the friggin' thing, and the mag itself can be
>considered one big Amiga ad...
>
>How about getting CDTV ads into things like Time and NewsWeek? Magazines that
>NON-computer people read? THAT's who Commodore should be trying to sell Amigas
>and CDTVs to; not the people who already own them!


umm.. advertising in AmigaWorld you might note is for more advanced systems. 
The idea is to make the lower end know of the exhistance, (and special deals)
going on with the higher end.  This isn't preaching to the choir, since most
amiga owners are 500 owners, thus an ad for a 3000 hits a good market.

btw, CBM *DOES* advertise CDTV in non-technical magazines.  Heck, the last
ones have been great!  

>|> Why not?  It's a multi-media machine.  It beats Microsofts idea of
>|> multi-media.  I see no connection between age of technology, and how usefull
>|> it is in multi-media.
>
>The implication being that "yesteryear's technology" is inferior to present
>technology, which it is.

That's not the implication.  He said "How can you advertise that the Amiga is 
multi-media machine when it has yesteryears technology".  my point was age of
technology has NOTHING to do with how usefull it is for a pourpose.   Monitors
 are *VERY* old technology, yet they are still useful are they not? .
>
>|> .--------------------------------------------------------------------------.
>|> | UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back |
>|> | ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil        | from the dead, but do  |
>|> | INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org                  | you really think he's  |
>|> |-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?"        |
>|> | Amiga programmer at large, employment options   | Lou Diamond Philips in |
>|> | welcome, inquire within.                        | "The First Power".     |
>|> `--------------------------------------------------------------------------'
>
>No wonder you're out of work, with an attitude like that!
>
>(I can't BELIEVE I just typed that... sorry! It's just that people who defend
>Commodore in everything they do really drive me crazy. Someone called you guys
>the "Anti-Barretts"... and it fits!  (Mark Barrett, not Dave...)

Who says i'm unemployed?  I'm always looking for a better job.

Just because i don't see everything commodore does as the end of the world as
we know it, doesn't mean that i'm for everything they do.  I find 90% of the
bitches and moans going on in here idiotical.  There are reasons C= does what
it does, and they are *USUALLY* good reasons.  For instance, SMD chipsets
reduce capacitance on the system, this is good, not bad.  You have to live
with some disadvantages to most advantages.  For instance, the SCSI setup in
the 3000 is VERY GOOD, but it's also VERY expensive.  every good point has a
bad point.

.--------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back |
| ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil        | from the dead, but do  |
| INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org                  | you really think he's  |
|-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?"        |
| Amiga programmer at large, employment options   | Lou Diamond Philips in |
| welcome, inquire within.                        | "The First Power".     |
`--------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy