From: jay@oclc.org (Young Jeff)
Subject: Re: An open question...
Organization: OCLC Online Computer Library Center, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 14:29:07 GMT

sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley) writes:
: Young Jeff writes:
: 
: >This is a fairly common course taken when Christians witness to others.
: >Things were terrible until I found Christ, etc.  I find this to be a
: >thoroughly uncompelling.  It sounds like they are saying that God is
: >intentionally placing snags in that person's life to guide them in the
: >right direction and realize God's presence.  Does he provide a 
: >similar service for Hindus and Buddists?  Are we lab mice who God
: >delivers electric shocks to until he provokes the desired response?
: >What about those of us who aren't so unlucky?  I haven't experienced
: >dispair to a sufficient degree to cause me to accept the presence of
: >the Christian God without sufficient evidence.  Of course, tomorrow
: >God could invoke the trials of Job on my life, but what if he doesn't?
: >Would you argue that God gives everyone equal chances to find him?
: >If he doesn't, whould you still call him 'just'?
: 
:   two things.  one is that your premise that god intentionally torments
: us to bring us to him is unsound and not supported in any scripture.

Are you serious?   The OT is chock full of cases where God torments the
Israelites for apostasy.  I realize the burden of proof of this claim
is on me, but I am amazed that anyone would claim otherwise.  Say the
word and I will gladly support it.

: rather suffering comes from being distant from and rebellious to god
: and under the influence of the devil's temptation in this world.  

I have been an atheist since high school over 15 years ago, but I don't
feel my suffering is any greater than it was during my theist days.  It
is less in fact.  From my experience it appears that bad things happen
to Christians just as often as non-Christians.  Do you claim otherwise?
If all you are claiming is that Christians suffer less under similar
situations, I think this is easily explained by psychological factors.
I refuse to believe in God just to gain a psychological crutch.

:                                                                    through
: suffering, though, christians often end up closer to god merely by leaning
: on him to be lifted out of the burden.  
: 
:   second thing is that i don't wish the trials of job on you or anyone
: and i wish it didn't take similar crash and burn experiences for me
: to turn to god as a first rather than a last resort.  rather god's offer
: of a relationship with him is available to all who'll accept the offer
: of his son to bring us to him.  so yeah, it's available to anyone who
: wants it.

But the price of accepting it is too high.  After much thinking and
reading, it appears to me that Christianity is indistinguishable
from the other religious myths of the world.  To make a leap of faith
past my doubts would be intellectual suicide.  Will God condemn me to
hell for lacking credulity?  Why is credulity considered a virtue in
Christianity but nowhere else?
-- 
Jeff Young

Opinions expressed are mine alone.
Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:14467 sci.physics:13289 sci.chem:3142