HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: 'Ol George goes for 3000, BUT ...
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 06:50:23 GMT

In article <spork.715154330@camelot> spork@camelot.bradley.edu (Richard Izzo) writes:
>In <1992Aug30.053444.3705@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:

>>But it's a fairly empty .270 (actually .275), wiith only a .386 SLG and 
>>a .326(!) OBP.  He is a slightly below average DH, which is still somewhat
>>valuable, but not very much.  A good number of Royals are more valuable than
>>he is.  (Joyner (with the defensive value), Miller, Howard(!), Jefferies,
>>McReynolds, Appier, Montgomery, and perhaps even Pichardo)
>
>	But how many of those can you depend on to bat .275?  There are only
>a few Royals hitters that can be depended on to bat even that much.  I can
>only hope that Omaha is putting forward quality hitting for the time Brett
>does retire, which I hope is soon.  I mean, he still has an excellent shot
>at breaking 3000 this year, even considering his record in September.

But *why* do you want nothing but batting .275?  Someone like Juan Samuel
(*no* walks and not much power) can be an offensive liability even when he
bats close to .300.

Besides, you *can* depend on some of them batting well.  Joyner has a career
.288 BA.  Jefferies has a career .276 BA.  McReynolds has a career .269 BA.
And each draws more walks and has more power than Brett.  Miller might not
be expected to repeat his performance this year, but he's a *2B* and not a
*DH*.

Do you really mean to tell me that Brett is more valuable than most of the
players I listed above?  If you do, then I must say that Kevin Appier is
getting a *really* raw deal.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sweda@css.itd.umich.edu (Sean Sweda)
Subject: Re: DAVID CONE TO BLUE JAYS
Organization: University of Michigan ITD Consulting and Support Services
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:03:23 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.165952.7055@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <1992Aug27.161858.25284@epas.toronto.edu> binkley@epas.utoronto.ca (P. Binkley) writes:
>>
>>I assume that should be "It's NOW official", cuz it is.  My guess is
>>the player to be named is Sprague, and he'll go as soon as the Jays
>>make arrangements for another backup catcher.  He has started the last
>>two games (one at first and one catching).
>>
>>Things look a lot better for the Jays than they did this time
>>yesterday.
>>
>>Where is Cone in his contract?  Must be in his last year: that's the
>>only kind of pitcher the Jays ever trade for ;-)
>
>Cone is a free agent.
>
>I don't think it's a particular good deal if the Jays can't sign Cone.  From
>the Mets standpoint, they get two good third basemen, so I suppose this means
>they won't sign Magadan.
>

Actually, my money would be on Magadan at third and Kent at second, since
that's his natural position.  What really would be interesting is if the
Mets try to sign Cone in the off-season, thus getting Kent and (Sprague?)
for a 1st round draft pick.

c-ya

Sean
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: savoy@hg.uleth.ca (Jim Savoy)
Subject: Re: Ugliest Man in Baseball??
Reply-To: savoy@hg.uleth.ca
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 03:15:41 GMT


>> ENVIRON@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes:

>>     Willie McGee is pretty ugly (a perfect oxymoron, no?)...

A cruel and unrelated-to-baseball-skills thread, but...

I'll put my money on either Drew Hall or Ron Karkovice.

 _____________________________________________________________________________
     Jim Savoy          University Of Lethbridge         savoy@hg.uleth.ca

 Mr. Neutron: This is a nice area.
 Mr. Entrail: It's like a bloody graveyard. I hate it.
 Mr. Neutron: It's handy for the shops and convenient for the West End.
 Mr. Entrail: If you like going to the West End. I think it's a stinking dump.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sinhaa@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Anand Sinha)
Subject: Re: CY, MVP, ROY
Keywords: eat more moose
Organization: Department of Computer Science, McMaster University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 21:19:02 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.193940.16825@tamsun.tamu.edu> rlopez@loanstar.tamu.edu (Robert Lopez) writes:
>
>I see the following still in the race...comments/suggestions
>welcomed.   go flame someone else.
I see the following other *deserving* candidates, although not likely to win..

>
>American League
>---------------
>
>Cy Young
>1. Strong candidates: McDowell, Clemens, Morris(?!?), Eck
Ack. not Morris. 4.00+ERA is horrid. McDowell also has a high ERA. Clemens
looks to be one man show, unless Guzman comes back strong..very strong.
>2. Fading: Brown, Mussina
>3. Next Year: Nagy, Appier
>***Note: What's up with Melido Perez this year?  Too bad the Yanks
>         are so dismal.
Trying to not be like big brother Pascual? :-) Melido has good numbers
despite being on a truly bad team.
> 
>MVP
>I need suggestions here.  I'm personally gonna stick with Eck.
>McGwire was falling off, then got hurt.
Roberto Alomar, still going strong.
Brady Anderson had a hot start but has slowed down recently
Edgar Martinez...top 10 in most offensive categories. 
Kirby Puckett.outside chance..back-to-back POM award helps.

MOTY:
1. Tony LaRussa, Johnny Oates, Phil Garner.
2. Tom Kelly
99999999 Cito Gaston (IMHO)
>
>
>National League
>---------------
>
>Cy Young
>1. Tom Glavine
>2. That's it
Greg Maddux, Bob Tewksbury both have better number (except W-L) than Glavine.


>
>MVP
>1. Strong: Sheffield, McGriff
>2. Dark Horses (asbestos suit time): Bonds, Pendleton
Another Dark Horse: DeLino DeShields. If Expos win the NL East, he'll look
good. 
>3. Next Year: Daulton.  The Phillies can be just as crappy without him.
Andres Galarraga. Oops. wrong category :-)

MOTY:
1. Felipe Alou...Expos performance has already won it for him.

Executive of the Year(NL)
1. Everyone's Pal Dal. He's given us the Andres watch what more could we want?


I'm ready to be flamed too...

Anand Sinha
Blue Jays #1 -> kick started into '92
Roberto Alomar for MVP
PAT:::Sign Cone NOW!!!
From: sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: AL-pennant race.
Date: 30 Aug 92 21:22:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.19983
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


The AL-pennant race shows some interesting points. The top
3 teams in the East, the Jays, Oriloes and the Brewers are
playing at the same pace as the second & third teams in the
West, the Twins & the White-Sox.  The Twins, the Sox, the Jays
Orioles and the Brewers are having similar percentage wins
from the same number of games played so far this season.

Which only means this: the Oakland Atletics are on a tear.

S.H
From: fvaughn@ds5000.DAC.Northeastern.edu (Frederick Vaughn)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: A QUESTION ABOUT ICE CREAM CONES...
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:02:12 GMT
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston MA. USA 02115

So, exactly who are the Mets getting from the BLOWJays in exchange
for Dave Cone?

FRED
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cal Ripken Signed
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:51:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: uwm.1992Aug26.175125.28874
Distribution: usa
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee

In article <1992Aug26.164039.8783@stsci.edu> rkidwell@stsci.edu (Richard C. Kidwell,mgr) writes:
>
   <stuff deleted>

>It is good to have a team 'lifer' I guess. They truly are a rare breed.
>We will see how the Puckett deal goes, there are some similarities to
>this situation.
>
   Being a fan of the Brewhas, I have only one thing to say to this post.

   Can you say Robin Yount?
   
   --salty
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: J. Gonzales All-time HR King
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:38:11 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <10010680@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> jrp@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Pessetto) writes:

>   I made some guesses about how Juan Gonzalez would finish this season and 
>[fed] this year and his previous years back into the Brock2 program written by
>David Grabiner.  According to this, he should pass Babe Ruth as the all-time
>homerun hitter.  

So who says Hank Aaron gets no respect?



-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami)
Subject: Re: Quote of the day
Organization: Brotherhood Of Breath
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 00:14:31 GMT

rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets) writes:
>
>Jose Canseco on being traded to Texas:
>"Maybe it's an indication it's time to move on."

You have conveniently quoted him out of context.  What Jose said was:
``when you hit 30 homers and get 100 rbi's but the fans are booing you,
maybe it's an indication etc.''

>Never let it be said that Jose is the brightest guy in Dallas...

Not while "robert and stimets" is (are?) on the net.


--Gidi

From: mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:31:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Larussa vs ??  was:  Re: Managing in the AL
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

In rec.sport.baseball, enw2049@zeus.tamu.edu (WALKE, ERIK N) writes:

> >AL managers have one *big* decision to make that NL managers don't.
> >When do you pull your star pitcher and go to the bullpen in a close
> >game?  In the NL, almost all pitching switches are dictated by
> >situation (score, inning, and when the pitcher comes to bat).
> 
>        This seemingly innocuous statement just ain't correct.  As you 
>        make quite clear in the succeeding lines, you mistakenly think
>        that the strategic moves required in the NL (line-up changes, 
>        double switches, etc.) are the dominant factors in the decsion
>        when and how to remove a pitcher.  That is INCORRECT.
> ...
>        Do you actually think that NL managers 
>        pull a starter who's pitching well simply because that pitcher
>        is due to bat third in the next inning?
> ...
>        I must admit that cases do arise where a pitcher who has per-
>        formed well is still removed for a pinch-hitter.

I think you seriously underestimate the number of times this happens.  And no,
managers don't pull starters simply because they are due to bat third; you have
that precisely backwards.  They *leave them in*, or else you'd just have to
pinch hit for the reliever.  Or you use a double switch.  But most definitely
you see moves being made that wouldn't be made in the AL.  Is this better?  I
would just say it's different.  It's strange to hear anti-DH people rant about
how the DH is so different from other players, and the rules are bent for him.
To me, a DH doesn't interrupt the flow of the game nearly so much as the
micro-managing around the pitcher's inability to hit.  In other words, "going
through hoops to account for the fact that no pithcers are trusted to hit well"
is not, to me, an embodiment of baseball that I miss terribly in the AL.  There
is so much to the sport, it is a shame that some people are blinded so much by
this issue.  In the grand scheme of baseball, the DH simply is not that big a
deal, and I can honestly say I can equally enjoy games with or without it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc "Dave" Sabatella		Disclaimer: OPS is not the One True Statistic
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com		that makes all others obsolete
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mmmm - po-ta-to chips!" - John Stuart Mill
From: binkley@epas.utoronto.ca (P. Binkley)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: DAVID CONE TO BLUE JAYS
Date: 27 Aug 92 20:11:33 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto - EPAS

The rumour now (on CJCL) is that the player to be named is Ryan
Thomson, an outfielder at AAA Syracuse.  Anyone know anything about
him?

Peter Binkley
binkley@epas.utoronto.ca
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: savoy@hg.uleth.ca (Jim Savoy)
Subject: Re: What happened to Grebek?
Reply-To: savoy@hg.uleth.ca
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 03:23:37 GMT


> alchemy@cs1.bradley.edu (Mike Swiston) writes:

>What happened to Craig Grebek, shortstop for the
>White Sox during Guillen's absence?  He was playing
>very well, but then he disappeared and the Sox
>picked up Sveum.  Now I don't even see Grebek
>listed in the Sox team stats printed in the
>Tribune each week.  What's up?

He broke his foot and is out for the season.  That's why the Chisox traded
for Dave Sveum.

Tough year on hands and feet...

 _____________________________________________________________________________
     Jim Savoy          University Of Lethbridge         savoy@hg.uleth.ca

 Mr. Neutron: This is a nice area.
 Mr. Entrail: It's like a bloody graveyard. I hate it.
 Mr. Neutron: It's handy for the shops and convenient for the West End.
 Mr. Entrail: If you like going to the West End. I think it's a stinking dump.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets)
Subject: Re: Managing in the AL
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 08:54:04 GMT


>>But the point is that one only double-switches when one's team is on
>>the field, when the pitcher's spot is coming up and when THE MANAGER
>>FEELS THAT THE PITCHER IS LOSING EFFECTIVENESS OR WOULD NOT, POSSIBLY
>>BE EFFECTIVE AGAINST AN UPCOMING BATTER.  The last reason is
>>essentially the only reason that an AL manager would remove his
>>pitcher when his team is on the field.  Therefore, the AL manager's
>>job is by no means tougher than the NL manager's job.
>
>Maybe it's just my background, but it seems to me that you have it
>backwards.  The more constraints you have on a problem, the easier it
>becomes.  The NL manager has more "rules" affecting his decision,
>and so has an easier decision to make.
>
Actually, the more constraints on a manager, the less effective he 
can be.  But it is not at all true that adding constraints to a 
general mathematical problem makes the problem easier to solve.
What I was saying was that there is no difference in the situation
causing an AL pitcher to be removed:
  1:  The pitcher is becoming ineffective or
  2:  the batter coming up will likely HIT against the pitcher, or
  3:  a combination of 1 and 2.
  4:  a helluva relief pitcher is ready in the bullpen
These are the same reasons that NL pitchers are removed.

I never wanted to make a AL/NL discussion out of this thread, 
but I insist that there is NO WAY THAT AL MANAGERS HAVE IT
TOUGHER THAN NL MANAGERS.  To think so is folly. On the other hand,
I'm not about to argue that managing in the NL is more difficult
than managing in the AL.  It's a stupid argument, if you ask me!!!
My allegiance is to the NL, and I think the NL will will win the 
world series seven times in the nineties!!  That's all that needs
to be said!!!!


RStimets
From: desmondw@merrimack.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Boggs Toronto bound?
Date: 26 Aug 92 12:07:39 GMT
Organization: Merrimack College, No. Andover, MA, USA

    I was reading the local newspaper in Boston today and came across an
article about Wade Boggs being frustrated with the Red Sox and says he
doubts he will be returning next year. He is a free agent and wants a deal
similar to Ripkens. The Sox have already told him no way. So I was thinking
how great it would be if the Jays snatched him in the off season. They
definately could use a good hitting 3rd baseman(Grubers lousy) and they
REALLY need a lead off hitter which Boggs also does well. He is the perfect
addition to the Jays lineup. Take a look:

                            1. Boggs (3rd base)
                            2. Alomar(2nd base)
                            3. Carter(OF)
                            4. Winfield(DH)
                            5. Olerud (1st base)
                            6. Maldanado (OF)
                            7. White (OF)
                            8. Borders(C)
                            9. Lee (S)
   This looks pretty unbeatable to me!
                                                Bill

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Boggs Toronto bound?
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:08:04 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.151854.2133@merrimack.edu> desmondw@merrimack.edu writes:
>
>What Boggs really wants is a long contract rather than an expensive
>one. He said he wants one of at least 3 years. And seeing his hitting woes
>this season, he isn't gonna be looking for a very expensive contract.

You are kidding yourself if you think he will sign for less than $5
million/year.  And he simply isn't worth that any more.  He may not
insist on a $7 million contract, but he's not going to be cheap.

>But the Sox said they will never give him a contract over 2 years
>because of the bad experiences with Clark, Young and Brunansky. They
>don't want to make another mistake. Boggs said something to the effect
>of 'Fine, then they'll lose me just like they did Hurst(Bruce) and
>Boddicker.'

Hurst was a loss.  Boddicker wasn't.  *HOW* much is he being paid to
do *WHAT*?  The Sox should wave Boggs bye-bye, and concentrate on
younger players.

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Clemens may not win his 4th CY, but he still rules!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: DAVID CONE TO BLUE JAYS
Date: 30 Aug 92 16:21:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Aug30.162110.23054
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853

In article <5307@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek) writes:
>
>David Cone's pathetic debut, Kevin Mitchell's poor year and Gary
>Shefield's sudden hitting prowes has brought an question to mind.  Has
>there been any National League player that's been able to make the
>transition to the American League with any degree of success?  In the
>last few years that is.

There are several guys like Bell, Viola and Carter who switched
leagues for one or two seasons and then came back.  I won't count
them...

AL players who were NL players a few years ago?  Alomar came across
successfully.  Jack Clark wasn't *bad* last year, though his averages
were down significantly.  Palmeiro started with the Cubs.  Nolan Ryan
has been better since the switch.  Bob Welch managed it okay.  Smiley is
pitching well, as is Sutcliffe.

There isn't an awful lot of cross-league movement, but most of it
seems to work out.

I think NL pitchers may be too easily impressed with their fastballs.
In the AL, you have to be able to change speeds to be effective.  You
can't count on being able to blow hitters away.  Even Nolan Ryan has
started throwing a changeup since coming to the AL.  This might be an
effect of the difference in the strike zone.  Aren't high strikes a
lot more common in the NL?  If the ump forces you to get the ball
down, you had better have something to complement the fastball.

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Clemens may not win his 4th CY, but he still rules!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Drabek & Bonds
Date: 26 Aug 92 05:56:20 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <87031@netnews.upenn.edu> blecher@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Icarus P. Anybody) writes:
...
>As for where Bonds might end up, I understand he's real big on San Diego.
>I'm not sure if they have the bucks or not, but a line-up with Gwynn,
>Sheffield, McGriff, and Bonds sounds really scary to me.

It would be nice, but the new ownership here seems to be frightened
of the current salary trend.  The team has publicly stated that they
will not make Bonds an offer, because they can't afford him.
Though with Lefferts, Myers, Santiago, and Stillwell, at least, 
likely to be gone, and Hurst probably traded, they will cut salaries
a fair amount.  Bonds is from the area and wants to play here,
but I just don't see how the team can afford him.

The team claims that they will lost about $12 million this season,
which is just offset by the $12.5 they get from the expansion fees.
They were planning to break even before expansion revenue.
Attendance is down, despite a winning, and *exciting* ballclub.
They might draw close to 1.5 million, I think, but 1/3 or more
of the dates have promotions of some kind.

-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
From: Graham_Sloan@abcd.Houghton.MI.US (Graham Sloan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: CUB'S MADDUX EASY CHOICE FOR CY
Distribution: world
Date: 3 Sep 92 21:36:44 EST
Organization: Amiga BitSwap Central Dispatch

The reason Maddux's ERA is so low is that because he pitches in the NL
East? That's one of the weakest arguments I've ever heard. Granted, I'm
sure you could say that the West teams are better offenxively this year,
but Maddux has pitched just as well against West teams. If Glavine is as
great as people make him out to be (not necessarily you, BTW), why does he
keep gettingh blown out of games in the third inning lately? MAddux would
never do that. He consistently stays in games for long times and is very
consistent in the kinds of runs he gives up, that is, not many...

-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee")
Subject: Athletics Minor League system
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 92 15:37:08 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Darn.  Shoulda capitalized the F.  Anyway, with the Canseco deal, the question
becomes this:  with 16 free agents and payroll downscaling in the A's future,
is there help in the farm system for the next year or two?

Well, last year, none of the Athletics position players in AA or AAA showed up 
as more than a one star prospect in my eyes.  Furthermore, of the 11 players who
DID get one star, the only one who earned it on the basis of his play was Troy
Neel.  The others only got points for being 25 or younger and a regular in high
minor league ball.  And even Neel wasn't that good (.236/.402/.338 MLE).  This
year, of course, he's better, but until I get walk and K data, I can't filter
out the PCL bias.  Judging from Piazza's numbers and what I know of Tacoma's
reputation, I'd peg Neel's numbers at about the .280/.435/.365 level.  That's
including the fact that he'll be 27 next year.  .800 OPS is pretty good, but
it's his fluke year.  The year after that you can knock 10-15% of each of those 
numbers.  And it's all downhill from there.

Apart from that, I don't see much.  Jeff Bittiger has had more talent than many
pitchers who have big league jobs, but his Magical PCL Mystery Tour still needs
to stop in Portland, Calgary, and Tucson.  Todd Revenig has 30 saves in
Huntsville, but I've only seen him once.  He didn't stink up the joint.

And as far as immediate help goes, that's pretty much it.  There are a couple
of players that intrigue me at AA, and Craig Paquette hasn't been a bust at
third, but the Four Aces are all disabled or ineffective, AFAIK, and the pennant
winning moves of the past couple of years have depleted the farm system pretty 
badly.

Anyone from Tacoma or Huntsville (or Oakland) have anything to add or refute?

-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) - kbos@carina.unm.edu - I'm not the AntiChrist
I AM the AntiWoofer. - Junior Stathead{tm} - I'm a shutmouthed, selfless idiot!!
Latest Attempted Compiler of the R.S.BB FAQ - Now Accepting Submissions...(hint)
Have you hugged a Dan Gladden fan today? - Dave Rossing : .531/54/214 at Denver!