From: fs_fuchs@rcsw66.rcvie.at (Kurt Fuchs)
Subject: Re: AF/ATS: Open Borders For All!
Organization: Alcatel-ELIN RC, Vienna, Austria
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:22:37 GMT


In article <Bt73sI.MsM@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> cdwilde@ritchie.uwaterloo.ca (Chris Wilde) writes:

> And tell me, what is wrong with giving preference to persons with skills
> and training (which is the real  reason people from the "North" cross
> borders)?  Nobody is interested in allowing immigrants that would simply
> end up on the welfare system.
>

How do you know that they simply would end up on the welfare system?
 
> The real problem here are repressive governments in the south.  Corruption
> and despair rule the southern countries.  To say that the North must take
> these people in is insane.  Their countries require a change in government.
> A revolution.  Why don't you take your rhetoric to someplace it might do
> some good, instead of trying to flog the North American/European/Asian
> upper and middle classes?

Who created/supported these repressive governments? Who will support
them in the future? Simple these 1st world governments interested in
cheap resources and in still controlling economically these countries.
Thereby our governments are responsible for the poverty created and
have no right in preventing the people to come. Also people living in
1st world (and partly profiting from that situation), which do not
stand up again these politics (which are the majority) do not have the
right to demand opportunistically closed borders. So do you (not have
the right ...)!

> -----------------
> politicians in Europe are screaming about how "The Boat is Full!"
> -----------------
> 
> If you drive for two hours in Canada or the US, you might leave a state.  If
> you drive for two hours in Europe, you will cross two borders, and be
> waiting in line at a third.  Europe is very small compared to any other
> continent.  It IS full.  In fact, it is heading for overpopulation.

You seem to be an expert. What is overpopulation? If Europe is
overpopulated, whats with India? Its much more smaller then Europe,
but almost twice as much people live there. In the Netherlands, 14
million people live on 40000 square km. Maybe it is dense populated,
but I've heard no voice from there, that it is overpopulated. And
Europe is far less crowded.

> Hey, at least you can't say Europe is racist!  So long as it treats East
> Europeans the same as Africans, you really have no call for complaint.

Again the expert is speaking. 

People from Eastern Europe are mostly Slavic people. When in Germany these
people are attacked by Neo-Mazis, I would call it racist. 

> Every nation in the world tries to prevent itself from falling back, so
> why is it wrong for Europe to do so?

Especially the rich and very rich and those in power (usually the
same) try to keep the status.

> a safer lifestyle for everybody in the country of interest.  Just what
> is WRONG with that.  A northern nation doesn't have a responsibility to
> the southern nations.

Yes, they wouldn't have responsibility, if they wouldn't intervene
economically, politically and military. And the northern countries DO
intervene economically, politically and military. 

SO THEY DO HAVE RESPONSIBILITY !
 
> That's it.  I'm really getting pissed at these buttheads.  They have no real
> conception of what a nation is, and where its responsibilities lie.  They're
> trying to make me feel guilty for being better off than everybody else.  I'm
> through with this and the base.  If these assholes ever show that they can
> understand that there are only so many resources, and that the North never
> had a responsibility to the south, or the US to the EUropeans, or France
> to England, etc., then somebody give me a line and I'll resubscribe, but
> I'm sick of the crap.  They have no leg to stand on, and they won't even
> debate me.  Screw 'em.
>  

Maybe you've heard of, which 20% of the world consume 80% of the
worlds resources. Check it on the map. Check which countries have had
colonies in Asia, Africa, South America, most of them only 30 years
ago. Check it out, where bloody dictators are supported, cause they
guarrantee a 'stable' situation (where these countries abd the people
can still be exploited). Check, where economical pressure is put on
countries (every heard of the IWF?). Check, what amounts of money are
going South (as development aid) and what amounts of money go back as
profit. Check out, which countries make what amounts of money, with
things, which are useless - except for destroying other things. Just
check these simple things out and think if you are able to think. Give
us one try, if you don't, we know on which side we've to put you.
Newsgroups: alt.society.revolution