HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cris@cm.deakin.OZ.AU (Christopher Welsh)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Help Apple IIGS Roms
Date: 22 Jan 1993 02:44:31 GMT
Organization: Deakin University, Geelong, Australia
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: gollum.cm.deakin.oz.au

Thanks for all the replies, this really is a great new group.

Thanks to all your advice, the IIGS is in the dealer's being
upgraded, and I have a working System.

Best regards
Chris

--
Deakin University          			Chris Welsh
Department of Computing and Maths		cris@aragorn.cm.deakin.oz.au
----------------------------------
Everybody has enormous potential........ if only you could see what I can see.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: ygor@3d2c.jhuapl.edu (Daniel E. White  (F2C))
Subject: Re: Using a Stylewriter with Appleworks
Organization: Johns Hopkins U. Applied Physics Lab
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:41:41 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.155137.109@iwsd01.itwol.bhp.com.au>, WEZAMG@DEVAX1 (George ZAMROZ) writes:
|> Can a Stylewriter be used with Appleworks?
|> 
|> If so, is there anything special that needs to be done?
|> 
|> I have a friend who is trying to do this and so far has had no luck.
|> 
|> Thanks in advance.
|> 
|> -----------------------

  Appleworks GS -- YES, Appleworks Classic -- Sadly, NO

  When Apple created the StyleWriter from the Canon engine, they made it
a "dumb" printer.  The original Cannon BubbleJet, I am told, had enough
brains built into it to do an "Epson emulation mode" which it what your
friend would need - To operate from Appleworks Classic, the printer in
question needs to be able to act like a common dot-matrix type printer
which, unfortunately, the StyleWriter cannot do by itself.

  If your friend is running a System 6 GS, the application "Teach" will
output to the Stylewriter.

  Feel free to e-mail if I can answer any more questions.

  BTW, I own a GS, a Mac Classic II, a StyleWriter, and an ImageWriter II.
  The printer/computer combinations ARE interchangable.  Now if the StyleWriter
  was just AppleTalk-able ...

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                               Dan White
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Sometimes  I  think  the  surest  sign  that  intelligent  life exists
 elsewhere  in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
                                                  Calvin (Bill Waterson)
From: dlyons@Apple.COM (David A Lyons)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: Formatting troubles :(
Date: 25 Jan 93 03:30:57 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <C1DD1r.71G@news.cso.uiuc.edu> kls0@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Plague) writes:
>[...] BTW: it doesn't crash if I boot up without INITs/DAs.  I've got a 4MB
>GS, ROM 01, running System 6.
> 
>/plague/system/system.setup/      20 files
> 
>name            type  blocks   modified               access
>----            ----  ------   --------               ------
[...]
>cdev.init        tsf       6   14-Jun-89   10:29 AM   rwnd

(Neat, Davex! :-)

I don't know if this is contributing to your problem, but it could
be:  CDev.Init is *not* part of System 6.0, and the Installer should
have removed it when you installed.

If you copied System 6 files yourself instead of letting the installer
do it, I heartily recommend you run the System 6 installer.

(CDev.Init in System 5 was responsible for calling CDevs (control
panels) at startup time, for those control panels that need it.  In
6.0, the ControlPanel NDA already does that, so your CDevs may be
getting started up twice.  With certain control panels that leave
some code in memory and patch it into the system, that could be a
big problem.)
-- 
David A. Lyons, Apple Computer, Inc.      |   DAL Systems
Apple II System Software Engineer         |   P.O. Box 875
Internet:dlyons@apple.com                 |   Cupertino, CA 95015-0875

My opinions are my own, not Apple's.
From: vandry@CAM.ORG (Phillip Vandry)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: MenuKey and TaskMaster
Date: 21 Jan 93 21:54:44 GMT
Organization: Champlain Regional College, St-Lambert QC CANADA

(I have another problem..)

Forgive me. I've only been in desktop programming since I started this project
at the beginning of this year about. So it's normal I have quite a few
questions, isn't it? The point is, I answer most of them myself and only have
to post to ones I -really- can't figure out :)

Anyways, the problem is that in the Toolbox reference Volume 1, it says
MenuKey returns its information about MenuID/ItemID in the eventWhen field.
But a disassembly of TaskMaster shows that it expects to find that information
in the taskData field.

1. I modified my program to use taskdata instead of EventWhen so that it will
   work, but is this correct?
2. If MenuKey does indeed return info in taskdata, what if the app uses
   GetNextEvent in the main loop? Then there won't be a taskdata!

And this should be the last thing. Promise. :)

How do you save and restore the screen? I was looking at PPToPort and it seems
like that's a whole loc more complicated than I need.. I just need to capture
the contents of a rect and restore it again..

Thanks.
 ______________________________________________________________________
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Phillip Vandry | Vandry@Cam.Org | II the future! | II 1993!          |
|________________|________________|________________|___________________|
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: dwellman@amiganet.chi.il.us (Dan Wellman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Odd Hardware Question
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:03:18 CST
Organization: Amiga Network Information Systems

I've found that my Zip accelerator's "dummy processor" with the cable
attatching it to the card is splitting at the cable seams..

I.e.      _____
         |     |
         XoooooX       <- the top is severing here at one end
         |_____|
         X     X

This seems to be affecting the computer's functionality as it will
occasionally randomly crash unless I continue to reseat the top onto the
bottom..

Ok, here's the dummy question of the day:) : Can I just take simple electrical
tape and tape the bottom to the top at the edge of the chip to avoid the
problem of the top loosening? 

Or would I end up frying my whole system? :)

Dan

______________________________________________________________________________
Dan Wellman                    | "Mixing.. is the art form of making music
dwellman@amiganet.chi.il.us    |  today..."
Apple II Infinitum!            |  
America Online: DanW190        | - Kraftwerk, in a _Keyboard_ interview
From: majere@chezmoto.ai.mit.edu (Michael Majere)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Help with Binscii
Date: 25 Jan 93 10:29:18
Organization: MicroMUSE at MIT
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: chezmoto.ai.mit.edu

Hello, I was wondering if any of y'all could help me out.
I recently ftp'ed a copy of binscii from wuarchive.wustl.edu.
I then proceeded to transfer the file via Kermit in text modes
at both ends. (I realize Kermit is stinky but that is all I have
available to me) Next I checked the text exec to see if there was
any obvious errors in it, the file looked clean to me. I then proceeded
to exec it, all went fine and I got the binary file called binscii in
my directory. However when I try to 'brun binscii' all I get is a
repeated '?unrecognized command', I was wondering if any of y'all
knew what I have done wrong, and better yet how to fix it.
Thanks, Mike.
--
This is a test sig file.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: emumford@nyx.cs.du.edu (Eric Mumford)
Subject: AE High Density 3.5" Drive: Broken...
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 17:10:06 GMT

Hi.. My AE 3.5" HD drive broke a while ago.  Here are some symptoms for you
hardware hackers:

When I go to format a new disk, the LED turns ORANGE instead of red, formats
a couple tracks, and then throws an error code at me.

When I insert a disk, it can neither read nor write to it.

It can catalog ONE 3.5" disk I have, the one that was in the drive at the time
(I think: My little brother 'broke' it.)

When you put a disk in, it makes clunking sounds.  Sometimes continues the
sounds even when the drive is not being accessed.

I have a lot of stuff archived on HD disks and would like to get it fixed.  
Do you periphial wizards have any suggestios, or should I just throw up
the rag and call AE Customer Service and have them fix it?  Thanks!

---							   The Guess Who (1972)
No time for a summer friend, no time for the love you send.        ____________
Seasons change and so did I- You need not wonder why,	           Eric Mumford
You need not wonder why- there's no time left for you.	 emumford@nyx.cs.du.edu
From: klo@sales.GBA.NYU.EDU (Usurper!)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Amiga Hard Drives On GS?!
Date: 28 Jan 93 02:58:40 GMT
Organization: NYU Stern School of Business



	
        My friend is offering me his SCSI hard drive from his Amiga 3000.
I was wondering would it work. It's a Quantum external SCSI hard drive.
Can I use this drive on my GS?

BTW, can I use any PC's SCSI hard drives on my GS? How about SCSI-2
drives?

Any help appreciated. E-mail preferred - will summarize if need be.
Thanks!



Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: behrenss@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Soenke Behrens)
Subject: Re: Using a Stylewriter with Appleworks
Originator: behrenss@hphalle6j.informatik.tu-muenchen.de
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:02:42 GMT


In article <1993Jan27.155137.109@iwsd01.itwol.bhp.com.au>, WEZAMG@DEVAX1 (George ZAMROZ) writes:

|> Can a Stylewriter be used with Appleworks?

Correct me if I'm blabbering, but isn't a Stylewriter this nifty Apple (tm)
printer that has no built-in fonts? If so, how do you think you could use it
with AW?

On second thought, you could, with SuperFonts, but then it's no Epson mode ...
hmm.

Soenke
-- 
===========================================================================
More than silver, more than gold, I need   !    behrenss@informatik.
electricity. I need it for my dreams.      !    tu-muenchen.de
(RACTER)                                   !  FIDO: 2:246/13 Soenke Behrens
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: jmk3@crux2.cit.cornell.edu (Jay Krell)
Subject: Re: Super Hi Res Stuff
Organization: Cornell Information Technologies
Date: 21 Jan 93 15:53:59 GMT

>From: adri0001@student.tc.umn.edu (Wouldn't you like to know)
 
>I needed to clear out the super-hi-res screen before I did
>anything to it...the problem was that I was clearing out the SHR screen and
>then flipping the SHR screen on...this was causing ghost pixels to get lit up
>at the bottom of the screen but ONLY when I ran the program for the first time
>after launching into GNO.  I go to GNO from Prosel, run my program, and the
 
>This continued until someone told me that I needed to flip the SHR screen on
>first...then clear it.  I am doing that now and it's working.
 
The problem is that the SHR memory is not, in its normal state, a linear 32K
chunk. I don't know if it is even at $E1/2000. For the SHR memory to appear as
we all know it, a bit must be set in NEWVIDEO ($C029?)
 
Hardware Ref 2nd ed p. 90, bit 6
 
"If this bit is 0, the 128K memory map is the same as the Apple IIe. If this
bit is 1, the memory map is reconfigured for use with SHR graphics mode: The
video buffer becomes one contiguous, linear address space from $2000 to $9D00."
 
Setting bit 7 both turns on the display and linearizes it.
 
You should set bit 6, clear the screen, then set bit 7.
 
There is no toolbox command to toggle bit 6, so you'll have to do it yourself.
 
  --Jay, jay.krell@cornell.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: ccw@prefect.cc.bellcore.com (wood,christopher)
Subject: Apple Pascal 1.3 wanted
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 21:11:49 GMT
Followup-To: poster

Greetings, Apple II users!

I have Apple Pascal 1.1, and am interested in using "advanced" :-)
hardware like 3 1/2 inch drives.  Would Apple Pascal 1.3 do what I want?
I notice that U of M has information from apple showing Apple Pascal on
a single 3.5" disk.  How is this different from Apple Pascal 1.3 (yes, I
have 5.25 and 3.5 inch drives.  I mean the files...)

Lastly, is anyone willing to part with a copy of Apple Pascal for less
than the $125 that APDA was asking?  I'm thinking around $50.  You get
some cash, and some shelf space.  I get to dust off the ole' //e, and
see what I can do.  Hmm, maybe a port of X to use the Double Hi-Res
graphics screen... ;-)

Chris

-- 
Chris Wood     Bellcore     ...!bellcore!prefect!ccw
                         or ccw@prefect.cc.bellcore.com

Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: David.Empson@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Subject: Re: MenuKey and TaskMaster
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 11:28:05 GMT

In article <C1D7K5.J6y@CAM.ORG> vandry@CAM.ORG (Phillip Vandry) writes:
> mills@MAX.EE.LSU.EDU (John Mills) writes:
> 
> >Ref. Vol. 1?!? What version of GS/OS are you writing it for? If it's 5.04 and
> >later, Ref. Vol. 3 makes lots of corrections and enhancments. You might try
> >looking into Programmers Ref. for System 6 also. :)
> 
> Vol 1/2 and Sys6Ref will do for now until I get get a copy of Vol 3. I did
> find at least two errors in Vol 1/2 just while doing this one project, so
> there muts be quite a few.

Volume 3 contains a lot of corrections to both volumes 1 and 2.  In
addition, find Apple IIgs Technical Note #24, which includes
corrections to all three volumes.

Re MenuKey: TB Rev Vol 1 is wrong.  The correction (in volume 3)
indicates that MenuKey expects a full task record, and the menu/item
number are returned in taskData, not eventWhen.

> Volume 3 is not as thick and expensive, right?

Sorry?  Volume 3 has about the same number of pages as volumes 1 and 2
put together.  It is taller than the other two, but uses thinner
paper, so is about the same thickness.  Something like 1200 pages in
total.

Volume 3 covers changes in System 3.2 through 5.0.2, and is pretty
essential if you want to use System 6 to its fullest extent.

The new toolsets documented in it are: Audio Compression/Expansion,
MIDI Tools, Note Sequencer, Note Synthesizer, Resource Manager and
TextEdit.  There is a lot of information about using resources with
other toolsets (in particular the Control, Menu and Window manager).
-- 
David Empson

Internet: David.Empson@bbs.actrix.gen.nz    EMPSON_D@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Snail mail: P.O. Box 27-103, Wellington, New Zealand
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: b45075@opal.ctd.anl.gov (Nathaniel Trost)
Subject: Re: Super Hi Res Stuff
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:25:53 GMT

Actually, you don't even need to bother with that....just make the QuickDraw
calls _GrafOn or _GrafOff.  QuickDraw does not need to be started to make these
calls.

BTW, one method of making sure the SHR screen is clear when you turn it on is
to set all the colors in all the palettes to black.

```````````
Nate Trost
GEnie: N.TROST
b45075@achilles.ctd.anl.gov
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
(Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0nGI2q-0000dPC; Sun, 24 Jan 93 16: 51 PST
From: richards@pro-scat.cts.com (Richard S. Claudio)
Subject: Laser 128
Organization: ProLine [pro-scat] St. Petersburg, Florida.
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 19:27:32 EST

What is the main differences between the Laser 128 and the Apple //eand
//c.
Just bought one and would like to know the difference.
Thanks in advance.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
(Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0nFnWc-0000RmC; Sat, 23 Jan 93 08: 16 PST
	(Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0nFmv2-0000EQC; Sat, 23 Jan 93 07: 37 PST
From: rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com (Randy Sopicki)
Subject: Question
Organization: ProLine [pro-amber] -- Spring Valley, Ca
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 06:57:00 PST

Is there any software that would make a Mac database compatible with
something like "Clipper or Foxpro?"

ProLine:  rsopicki@pro-amber
Internet: rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com
UUCP:     crash!pro-amber!rsopicki
From: 90taobri@CHASM.SCAR.UTORONTO.CA (Brian Tao)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: Two Systems... One Hard Drive?
Date: 29 Jan 93 03:03:49 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: MuGS Research and Development Facility


The following revelation escaped The Prisoner's lips:
> 
> When I try to launch System 5 from this, it runs System 6 from the boot
> Partition. Aeasy Ideas?

    I guess you don't have a RamFAST?  You can select the boot partition
with a press of a key.  How are you trying to launch System 5.0?  By
running the ProDOS file on that partition?

--
== Real name: Brian Tao (Dept. of Exobiology, University of Toronto)
== Preferred: taob@r-node.pci.on.ca (no mail over 15K please!!!)
== Free Plug: =MuGS 2.0=, the only   """"""""""""""""""""""""""
==            Internet mail reader for the Apple IIGS, coming soon!
From: voss@i40s16.ira.uka.de (Stefan Voss)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: scsi hd on apple ][e
Date: 25 Jan 1993 11:57:00 GMT
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, FRG
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: i40s16.ira.uka.de

In article <93024.123355DBE100@psuvm.psu.edu>, <DBE100@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
|>   I have an old 20meg scsi drive that I would like to use on my old apple IIe.
|>  what software and hardware are needed?

You need 
- a SCSI card. Either a Apple SCSI card or a RamFAST SCSI. (Huh, I don't know if
RamFAST card work with the IIe. Maybe, you need a RamFAST version 2.x)
- an SCSI system cable for connecting the HD with the SCSI card.
- installation software for formatting and making partitions. It's included with 
a Apple SCSI card and probably with a RamFAST, too.

Take a look at the FAQs, too. There's a suptopic about SCSI.

|> *
|> *                               thank you
|>                                   dbe100@psuvm.psu.edu

Stefan Voss
(voss@ira.uka.de)
From: unknown@Apple.COM (Matt Ackeret)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: Western design chip
Date: 25 Jan 93 06:37:19 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1jv04uINNn1t@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cb408@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jason Reames) writes:
>I read in the Feb. issue of A+/InCider that Western Design has a chip for the
>GS, the W65C81PL-E, that will double the speed of the GS.  Is this on the
>level?  Anyone have one that can confirm it really works?  How about the
>cost?  Thanks!!

More details please...  How would this theoretically double the speed of 
the GS?  cut cycle counts of instructions in half? has an online cache??

Anyway, is this counting if you already have a Zip, and/or will this
hypothetical chip come in 15-20 MHz versions?
-- 
unknown@apple.com		Apple II Forever
unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu  These opinions are mine, not Apple's.
From: BADDORF@BADORF.FNAL.GOV (Deb)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: Floptical drives
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:31:39 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

>> The review in Mac-User (?) commented that the Floptical had some
>> problems reading lower density (1.4M, 800K, 400K) that had not
>> been originally formatted on the Floptical.
>
>    Which brand/mechanism is this?  The InSite floptical doesn't read
>800K or 400K disks.
>   Brian Tao

Now that I want to read it again, I can't for the life of me find that
article.   I suspect it said only the 1.4M density, since the PLI
floptical that I just got doesn't read 800K or 400K disks either.
PLI's service department confirms that it's not supposed to.
(I was laboring under the misapprehension that it would.)  Mine has
had no problems with 1.4M disks formatted elsewhere; I've only had
it for 5 days so far though.     Caveat:   I'm running a MAC (LC); don't
know how different the GS version might be.
  Repeat:  I've seen no problems, and I like having a second HD drive.

<===========================================================================>
Deb Baddorf                Fermilab, MS220       Arthurian,Inkling,&Regency  
Baddorf@warner.fnal.gov    PO Box 500               buff
Baddorf@fnal.bitnet        Batavia, IL 60510     Costumer, RevWar re-enactor
                                                 MAC LC II w/ IIe emulator
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Specific 8-bit software wanted.
From: robert-s@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (Robert Sheehan )
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 02:56:39 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept. University of Auckland
Keywords: Robot Odyssey, Elite

If anyone has a copy of Robot Odyssey or Elite for the 8-bit Apples 
they would like to sell, complete with docs and boxes, please e-mail me.

-- 
------- Robert Sheehan ---- robert-s@cs.aukuni.ac.nz -------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: jmk3@crux3.cit.cornell.edu (Jay Krell)
Subject: Re: StyleWriter II
Organization: Cornell Information Technologies
Date: 28 Jan 93 17:36:52 GMT

>Also has the bugs in the
>current StyleWriter been fixed yet?

A few shortcomings in the driver are discussed in the ERS on it. I think these
are what people think are bugs in the driver.

--Jay
From: marc@cxr_rs6000.med.ge.com (Marc Wolfgram)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Looking for Shane Zatezal at Ohio State
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:28:51 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Sorry for the waste of bandwidth, but I'm trying to find where Shane has
disappeared.  I sent him a $65 check almost 3 months ago for a Seagate
20mb bare mechanical, and haven't heard a word from him since... including
no hard drive :(

If anyone knows how I can reach him it would be appreciated... some of my
mail to him bounces (shane@kiwi.shws.ohio-state.edu) and some of it doesn't
(szatezal@mangus.acs.ohio-state.edu).   Thanks...

Marc Wolfgram
AOL: M Wolfgram   GEnie: M.WOLFGRAM2   inet: marc@cxr_rs6000.med.ge.com
There are two ways to write bug-free code and only the third one works!
From: uerics@mcl.ucsb.edu (Eric D. Shepherd)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: HyperCard StarTrek Stack
Date: 20 Jan 93 22:28:38 GMT

HyperMover requires _both_ a Macintosh and a IIGS.

- Eric S.

--
Eric D. Shepherd                   | Apple II Alliance Charter Member
InterNet: uerics@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu  |           ACM Member
FidoNet:  1:206/2713 Eric Shepherd | Programming Law #1: "When in
AOL:      Sheppy                   | doubt, rewrite from scratch."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: adri0001@student.tc.umn.edu ()
Subject: Apple IIgs for sale
Summary: I'm selling the thing...have another one though :)
Keywords: computer for sale Apple IIgs
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 05:57:50 GMT

Ok...let's try this again...

I am selling my Apple IIgs -- but don't worry, I have another one so I'm not
giving up on the market :)

Apple IIgs ROM 01
 o 1 MB of RAM
 o RamFAST SCSI Card v2.01 rev C
 o SeaGate 45 MB Hard Drive External
 o B & W monitor -- it works
 o all cabling included
 o maybe will throw in an Intel 9600ex modem external
 o software, etc...

Make me an offer but try and do it at : achauhan@math.macalstr.edu not where
this message is coming from.  It's a "borrowed" account...shhhh :)

Let's try and sell this puppy this time...

Thanks

Amrit
-- 
   -=-=-=  Amrit Chauhan --- Conciousness can be Demystified  -=-=-=-
 -=-=-=  achauhan@math.macalstr.edu - #AppleIIgs forever        -=-=-=-
-=-=-=   Conciousness depends on its associated concepts.         =-=-=-
-=-=-=   Cartesian Duelism is giving up on science.   -->--<@     =-=-=-
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2