Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Why I am not a Muslim [was re: Why I am an atheist/Christian...]
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 18:56:29 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.


'Scuse me while I butt in here...

aabdalla@pollux.usc.edu (Ahmed Abd-Allah) writes:

>In article <1992Aug25.124732.7122@ac.dal.ca> hartigan@ac.dal.ca writes:
>>
>>In article <l9jcc3INN3hm@pollux.usc.edu>, aabdalla@pollux.usc.edu (Ahmed Abd-Allah) writes:
>>> I am deeply saddened by your letter....  It seems you are not objective
>>> enough to even mention Islam in your observations...  Why?  
> 
>>Sorry! It just didn't occur to me. I swim in a sea of Christianity, for 
>>better or for worse. Islam is not a strong ideological force in most of
>>North America...yet!

>The number of Muslims in North America is irrelevant, I think you'd agree, to
>whether or not the Qur'an is the Word of God.

Just as the number of Christians in Syria or Egypt is irrelevant as to
whether the Bible is the Word of God.  Don't you agree?

>>is true/good.  Makes me think that one can really only believe with a whole
>    ^^^^

>I've pointed out in a couple of other articles that the Bible has enough
>errors that it's incorrect to call it 'true.'  The Qur'an is free of these
>errors because it is from God Himself - it is not even an 'inspired' word
>of a man; rather it is direct Divine revelation.

Exactly as the typical Christian fundamentalist will claim for the Bible.
Your claims for your particular set of scriptures are not different than
the claims of the average 'plenary verbal inspiration' (ie God dictated the
Bible) evangelical.

Why should your claim stand up more than theirs?

>>heart in the religion of one's childhood. "As the twig is bent, so grows the
>>tree."  

>The prophet of Islam told us something very similar to your surprising 
>insight: "Every person is born a Muslim.  It is only his or her parents
>who change them into Christians or Jews."  Don't overanalyze this statement.
>The best interpretation is that Islam is the natural state of human at birth,
>and that as the human grows and gains the power of reason, the parents can
>unduely influence the child to the wrong path.

Neat.  Christ told us not to hinder the children from coming to the Kingdom
of heaven.  But who's the stumbling block?  We won't settle that one...Heck,
that argument has been going on since the beginning of Judaism, within
Judaism itself.

> Read the Qur'an.  It supersedes the Bible.  It can't hurt you.
It superseeds the Bible only for those who believe that it is inspired
text.  If I do not believe the Qu'ran is divine revelation, as you put it,
then it means nothing more than the Bahgavad Gita, which I have also read.
And which I do not find applicable as a religion, at least to me.

>In Arabic poetry (and any poetry actually), the meaning is subservient to
>the words.  In the Qur'an, the meaning is what is absolutely important.
Just as in the Bible.  The message of the text is far more important than
the set of words.

>Have you read what the Qur'an says on things like war, worship, taxes,
>marriage, divorce, creation, law, embryology, entertainment, rain,
>work, and other things?  Does the scope of its coverage tell you something
>about whether it is "mythological poetry"? 
If one does not believe in a Supreme Being, ALL gods are mythilogical.
That's just the way it is.  Just as most modern people hold that the
various gods of Rome and Greece were myhts, so do atheists hold that
God/Allah (they are the same guy - God of Abraham, after all) are myths.

>	Do you know of any other religion so similar to what Jesus
>	spoke of, and yet is also at peace with what our minds tell
>	us of the natural world?  
Yeah, real Christianity.  Jesus' message is exactly what you say.  Any
corruptions over the ages are in the same category as the corruptions that
have entered Islam...like the Ayatollah Khomeni and his gang, for example.

The Bible itself makes no claims to speak to science.  If we understand
that it accurately represents God's relationship with Man, and the rules
under which he would have us live, we have taken from the Bible what was
meant to be given...

It is not, IMHO, reasonable to claim, as some scriptural literalists do, that 
the Bible is inerrant on ALL topics.  The Bible, like all literature, makes
use of allegory, metaphor, poetry, simile, parables, etc.  Nothing wrong
with that, and it doesn't mean that it wasn't inspired.  Even direct,
plenary verbal inspiration can allow for allegorical and metaphorical
stories!  God can do anything, don't ya know.

Islam is no more entitled to special pleading than Christiaity.  If you get 
to use special pleading, then so do Christians.

God Bless...

 -Steve
--
 The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                        -------------------
     adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
     Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,talk.origins