HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hi-Power mag safety
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:06:08 GMT
Organization: Sun

In article <1993Jan6.181919.10987@cbnews.cb.att.com> webdw@mvutd.att.com (Bruce D Woods) writes:
#In article <9301052036.AA12895@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix) writes:
##
##It's a bit late for Keith, but for anyone else who might be thinking
##of getting into IPSC and wants to shoot a Browning, their BDM has no
##magazine safety, and the magazine jump right out when you press the
##button.
##
##Otherwise, it shoots a lot like a Hi-Power.
#
#No it doesn't.  A Hi-Power with some work done on the mag. release
#and the trigger is a much superior action 9mm than a BDM.  

Funny, it feels a lot like a Hi-Power to me...which is one reason I
got my BDM.  The other being that I like it even better, where it's
different.

#(I've not heard of anyone using a BDM for action shooting!)  

This may be related to the fact that the BDM hasn't been in production,
certainly not volume production, for very long yet.


--
-------------------------------------------------------
| Some things are too important not to give away      |
| to everybody else and have none left for yourself.  |
|------------------------ Dieter the car salesman-----|
From: ters0003@student.tc.umn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Whick AK to buy??
Date: 7 Jan 93 13:47:15 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota


	Recently I've been considering buying one of the new AK-47 "sporter"
style guns, with the thumbhole stock.  	I'm considering the Chinese MAK-90,
the Hungarian SA 85M, or the Egyptian MAADI AKM.
	First the Chinses ones from Norinco are the cheapest, and cheapest 
looking.  Most are about $200 bucks, and have pretty made wood.  The only
differnce I've found is one guy had ones with a milled receiver, versus
stamped, which he claimed was far superior and also more accurate.  Any
one else care to differ?
	I've also looked at one of the Hungarian models, which are about $300,
at one of the local stores.  It seems better finished than the Chinese one's,
but does it work any better?
	Lastly I've yet to see on of the MAADI's, but I've been told the wood  
work is nice, but the metal has a finish that is easily scraped off, even with
your finger nail!                           
	So if anyone owns of has used these guns, please send me some feedback.
Price is not a big deal, but I don't want to pay more for something that is 
not any better.
	Also how well does the Norinco 7.62X39 ammo work?  At about 10 cents a 
round for steel core it seems to be quite the bargain.

Send replys to ters0003@student.tc.umn.edu of post here since I read this group
almost daily and other may also like to know.


Thanks, Chris
From: petekunz@iiic.ethz.ch (Peter John Kunz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Nationwide Sports Distributors
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:27:32 GMT
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH

In article <9301082352.AA06835@rutgers.edu> wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf) writes:
#In article <9301081913.aa17060@s.s.ms.uky.edu> miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant) writes:
##I have not sealt with them.
##But as far as great service, I can reccomend:
##
##Sports South
##Accu Sports

who?

#I didn't catch the original on Nationwide Sports. They are the
#Distributing arm of a large East-coast gun dealer chain called
#Edelman's. Both Edelman's and NSD are notorious for bait and
#switch, lousy service, interminable delays and rude sales
#agents. I'd stay away from them.

i dealt with them until they put a $3.5k limit on export orders. seems things at nsd started changing around spring '92. is that when your problems started?


cu
-pete



-- 
Peter J. Kunz	Vogesenstr. 60	4106 Therwil	Switzerland
petekunz@iiic.ethz.ch	pkunz@amiga.physik.unizh.ch
From: dfw@po.CWRU.Edu (David F. Wright)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Where can I find a used UZI or Tech 9??????
Date: 7 Jan 93 03:45:17 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


    I am looking to find an Uzi or a tech 9. It can be used
as long as it is in good shape. I have a 1 year old Star 9mm
for a possible trade. If no trade is welcomed then list the 
price you want.    Thanks
-- 
        David Wright                   Internet:dfw@po.cwru.ed
        Technician I- Tech. Services   Phone (216) 368-3779
        I.R.I.S Dept.
        Case Western Reserve University
From: C96@VM.URZ.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE (Alexander EICHENER)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: INFO: 5.45 PSM bottleneck pistol ammo
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:59:06 GMT

There was some talk about bottleneck pistol and revolver cartridges
to experiment with... you might be interested in this little info:

5.45 mm PSM (Russian)
PSM is the abbreviation for "pistolet samozarjadnyj malojnbaritnyj"
(using continental European transliteration for the cyrillic characters).
   This pistol, a comparatively small, simple blowback semi-auto, was
developed in the beginning 70s as a replacement for the Makarov. It looks
somewhat akin to the Walther TPH (a bit better, IMHO), has a light alloy
frame, a manual safety and is very flat.

Data for pistol:
Length 155 mm
Width 17.5 mm (!)
Weight empty 450 grams
Weight loaded 510 grams (with 8-round magazine)
Barrel length 85 mm

Data for ammunition:
Bottleneck rimless pistol round with a FMJ flat nose bullet. The
bullet core is a steel/lead composite (front steel, back lead).
One cartridge weighs about 4.8 grams.

Overall cartridge length: 26.00 mm
Case length:              18.00 mm
Mouth diameter:            5.90 mm
Bottom diameter:           7.15 mm
Rim diameter:              7.15 mm
Bullet diameter:           5.45 mm
Bullet weight:             2.4 - 2.6 grams
Vo:                        315 m/sec (quite exactly the same as a .32 H & R
Eo:                        129 Joule                               Magnum)

Source: Deutsches Waffen-Journal, 1984, p. 1412; 1985, p. 4.
All and any corrections and elucidations gratefully accepted!

Greetings, Alexander Eichener <c96@vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
From: bellcore!bae.bae.bellcore.com!wind@uunet.UU.NET (Wind Chen)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: falling bullet does not "compute"
Date: 12 Jan 93 22:17:49 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research

Falling object DOES NOT travel at "constant speed".

When the bullet fired straight up, speed at time T is faster than speed at
time T+1.  On it's way down, speed at time T is slower than speed at time 
T+1.  

I need my high school book to find the formula.
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 'falling' bullets
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:06:51 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

In article <1993Jan7.170226.3782@btree.uucp>, btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale) writes:
#In article <1993Jan6.164626.14780@news.eng.convex.com> tford@convex.com (Tom Ford) writes:
##I heard a local news report on New Years Day about people shooting off guns in
##town to celebrate the new year, not a smart thing to do.  I was wondering
##what are the ballistics like for a falling bullet after it has been shot
##at near 90 degrees elevation.
#
#
#Terminal velocity for common bullets is in the neighborhood of 300 fps
#(about 200 mph).  This is quite sufficient to kill someone - just
#read the newspaper for places like Los Angeles on January 2.

	I doubt it. The stories I read are that people are being killed
	by bullets that are coming in their windows, not through the
	roof, or out of the sky. Yes, I have read of deaths caused
	by more or less vertically falling bullets, but not many.
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu
From: crs@beta.lanl.gov (Charlie Sorsby)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: ESPN Shooting Sports programs
Date: 4 Jan 93 18:35:28 GMT
Followup-To: rec.hunting
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory

Hi, All...

Hope your holidays were great...

During which I discovered that ESPN airs (or has begun to do) a
program about the shooting sports on Sunday mornings (10:30
Mountain Time in my area).  Thought you-all may like to know.

Last Sunday, it was about a black-powder meet and about the Grand
National trap shoot at Vandalia (OH).  Seems like the previous week
may have been about the Olympic shooting events.  Grits Gresham is
the host.  Check it out.

And, as infrequently as one is able to see any coverage, much less
decent coverage, of the shooting sports on TV, I'd like to write to
ESPN and thank them (perhaps we all should?).  Has anyone an
address for them?

Oh, yeah--I seem to recall seeing some program on shooting on the
Nashville Network not long ago, too.  Can't recall what or when,
though...


-- 
Best,

Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby				"I'm the NRA!"
	  crs@lanl.gov
From: ghm@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Speaking of .32 H&R magnum
Date: 4 Jan 93 23:15:20 GMT
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia

jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:

#I like the .32 magnum (H&R) and have, apparently, mercilessly overloaded
#it in our Dan Wessons (Wesson) and TC Contender.  I got 1400+ fps with the
#little 71 gr. .32 auto bullets (FMJ).  I think that comes out near 300 ft-lbs.

#What I am wondering is whether it would be possible to convert some of the
#European pistols that use the .32 S&W long (?) cartridge to use the
#magnum.  I haven't seen many of them and suspect it wouldn't work, but
#would like to hear the net's opinion(s) on the subject.  It would make a
#nice pistol if it could be done.

I have a Walther .32, and I don't think this would work, for a number of 
reasons:

(a)   The Walther is a blowback, and your load is generating considerably
      more pressure than what the Walther is designed for (98 grain 
      wadcutter ambling along at 700-800 fps).

(b)   Overall length of cartridge would not fit into the magazine or the
      magazine well.

A better starting point might be a target auto chambered for the .38 Special,
which would accommodate the length of the case without difficulty.  Of course,
then you would have to re-work the slide to accommodate the smaller head.
Actually, what you'd end up with would be something with roughly the ballistics
of a 7.65 Luger, so why bother (although I hate to pour cold water on 
any sort of gunsmithing project:-)

Geoff Miller  (g-miller@adfa.edu.au)
Computer Centre, Australian Defence Force Academy
From: keith@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca (Keith de Solla)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: FAL sporter
Date: 7 Jan 93 13:47:09 GMT
Organization: Canadian Microelectronics Corporation

Does anyone have any experience with, knowledge of, or actually own
one of those FN FAL sporters from Century Arms (International Firearms
in Canada).  $299 (Cdn) seems pretty cheap for a FAL.  Any idea 
where they were built.  More importantly for Canadians, are they
true semi-auto, or were they converted from full auto?

-------------------------------------------------------------------
| Keith P. de Solla, P.Eng |  "Be sure brain is engaged before    |
| CMC                      |   putting mouth in gear"             |
| keith@orion.ic.cmc.ca    |                                      |
From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Source of .308 ammo
Date: 11 Jan 93 01:05:06 GMT
Organization: who knows

ben.sansing@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Ben Sansing) writes...
..some of the
#surplus stuff, like the Greek .303 that was available for a while, was
#excellent... but all too often it's corrosive, and sometimes it's so old
#it misfires a lot. We don't mess with it.

I do  not think that the Greek .303 is corrosive and I haven't had a
misfire in 300 rounds.
From: alexank@research.CS.ORST.EDU (Kelly Alexander)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Norinco AK
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:21:59 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Oregon State University

In article <5JAN199312563731@zeus.tamu.edu>, ksw9324@zeus.tamu.edu (WASHBURN, KENNETH SCOTT) writes:

# I Have a Norinco AK and have had nothing but excellent results with it.  The 
# woodwork is a little on the rough side, but this rifle is an excellent buy.  
 
[stuff deleted]

# 5 rd mag for hunting, and the 75 rd drum is great.  I would not suggest trying
# to scope the rifle.

	I have a Norinco AK also, and it's hard to stop it.  I managed
to fire 1000+ rounds over 6 months w/o cleaning it (something I would
never do with any other gun) and it worked just fine.  It also had part
of a pine tree branch in the workings when I chambered a round while
hiding in a tree, and it didn't mind at all.
	Mine came with a mounted scope, and it was just about useless.  When
ever you take it apart to clean it, the scope has to come off.  Not exactly
the best way to keep the scope lined up.


---------------------------------------------------------------------
     Kelly Scott Alexander          alexank@research.cs.orst.edu
	    AI/Parallel Research Suns System Administrator
	      Oregon State University, Computer Science
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: KEVIN@MSUS1.MSUS.EDU (Kevin Whyte)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Bersa Thunder 9
Date: 13 Jan 93 04:20:27 GMT

#From: chan@seattleu.edu (Anthony K.B. Chan)

#I just wonder if anyone out there has seen or handle this new Bersa? Any ideal
#about the price and also the magazine capacity of the Thunder9? Lastly how is
#the quality of Bersa in general?

I purchased a Bersa 383-A.  It's a .380 with stainless steel finish.  I am
pleased with the gun.  I am in no way a gun expert when it comes to fit and
finish and machine marks and such but it shoots well for me.  In the first 50
rounds it jammed ever 3 or fourth round.  It would not fully chamber the next
round.  Since that box however it has fed everything with no complaint.  That
includes Winchester silver-tips, federal Hydroshoks, as well as the standard
FMJ fare.  It has a nice finish and it feels solid.  It is a very pleasant
pistol to shoot.  As for the quality of the gun the only standard I am
qualified to use is wether I would buy the gun again.  I would.  In a second. 
I think it is a lot of gun for the money.  I plan on looking very closely at
the 9mm Bersa.  It might make me raid my Sig 229 piggy bank.  ( a bird in the
hand.....) 
BTW the magazine I have is the single colomn(sp) it holds 7 rounds.  It is
available in the double colomn(sp) witha capacity of 13rds. Its as accurate as
my Glock at 7 yds. 3-5 shots in a 2-3 inch group.
============================================================================
Kevin Whyte						kevin@msus1.msus.edu
	**Representing and speaking for no one but myself.**
"Still, the best augurs are those who divine from the portents of the past. 
They compile phenomenal records." Croaker "The Black Company" by Glen Cook
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Blackpowder and smokeless loads.
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:14:54 GMT
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi

In article <1993Jan5.114252.22736@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
#
#Be aware that the data from 'Cartridges of the World' is for,
#obviously, *cartridges*.
#
#Since the pressure goes up as the space gets smaller, loading
#a 'cartridge' load into a muzzle loading gun is looking for a
#big pressure jump(!) that could break the gun and shooter...
#
#(The ball is rammed down on top of the powder.  Smokeless is much
#more compact than black powder, so the space is much smaller.
#To adapt a cartridge load to a muzzle loading gun would take
#a bit of work/talent and a lot of caution due to this variance
#in the space occupied between cap and ball ...)

As we are discussing a cap & ball revolver, the method that I propose
is to place a SMALL quantity of smokeless powder (e.g. 2.0-3.0 gns)
in the chamber. On top of this goes a dacron fluff filler to hold
the powder against the flash hole. The ball is rammed on top of this.
Because the ramming arm will not seat the ball deeply, the over-pressure
condition will not happen. Again, this is not a brass and iron gun.
It is an all-steel Ruger Old Army. My greatest concern is not that
the gun would burst, but that the cap might blow out spraying metal
fragments back in the shooters face. For this reason, I propose to
start out with a very light load (e.g. 1.5 gn) and work up slowly
until the caps begin to split the same way they do with a half
charge (22 gn equiv) of Pyrodex. It would be interesting to have
access to an Oheler (sp?) strain guage.

My old Speer Reloading manual also has a number of loadings for round
ball cartridges. With a ~150 grain ball all the .44 and .45 cal
cartridges seem to have the same suggested loading of about 3 grains
of just about any pistol powder.
-- 

Donald R. Newcomb                * Life only admits two states: 
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu        * growing and dying. So what,
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet            * if I've put on a little weight?
From: ssdc!jbasara@uunet.UU.NET (Jim Basara)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Reloader mail-order sources
Date: 4 Jan 93 18:34:39 GMT
Organization: Sterling Software IMD, Vienna, Va.


I too am in the market for a shotgun reloader.  My question is:  Are there
any good mail order sources for reloaders??? I know that Gander Mountain
carries the MEC line but does anyone carry Hornady??

thanks,

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Basara
     uunet!ssdc!jbasara                "All the other nations are drinking
     jbasara%ssdc@uunet.uu.net         Ray Charles beer, and we are drinking
                                       Barry Manilow." - Dave Barry
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Self Protect Handgun vs. Shotgun.
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:22:15 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

pafford@polaris.rtp.dg.com (Randy Pafford) writes:

#|> Suggestion #2:  Higher stopping power usually means more penetra-


#Ummm, I don't think this is quite right.  Many high-velocity hollowpoint
#loads will penetrate less than lower velocity loads IF they
#expand.   For example, I strongly suspect that the CORBON 115 gr 
#9mm load at 1300+ fps will penetrate many materials LESS than the typical 
#.45 hardball load, consisting of a 230 gr round at about 830 fps.  

	To drywall, a hp makes no difference.  hps only open up in
liquids, and will kill your neighbors no less than any softpoint or
fmj.

#Question to the net: does anyone know how well brick stops things? I.e.
#is a brick house "bulletproof" to any appreciable degree?  

I think so.  In my play, I mean test, 9mm sometimes cracks individual 
bricks, but seems to more often spatter or smear, leaving chipped or 
intact brick.  I suspect a brick in a wall to be much more resistant 
to cracking than a lone one.

It's a world of difference from drywall, wood, or metal, in any 
case.

Jim D
From: robert@cuba.vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Robert Glock)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: guns vs. K9s
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:55:06 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Vienna

osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
: In article <1993Jan4.130458.7348@email.tuwien.ac.at> holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe)) writes:
: #Consider the following scenario:
: #
: #You are confronted with a very  unfriendly  and  rather  big  dog
: #(growling,  foam  at  the mouth, suspected rabies) in your garden
: #(so carry laws are not an issue).  What gun/ammo would  you  like
: #to have with you?
: #
: 
: 	I agree that a .357 would do well.  I think anything from a 9mm
: 	on up would be OK, but of course even a .22 would be better than 
                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: 	nothing.
        ^^^^^^^^

Maybe I'm wrong, but are you sure about this? I think that you would have
to be a prime marksman (or extremely lucky) to hit a rabid dog at a vital
spot immediately. If you just wound the animal, it might still be able to 
attack you - with even more ferocity. Even with a 'large' gun it would be 
better to try to escape (not run!). 

Regards

Robert

--
Robert Glock <-----------------+       Dept. of VLSI Design
robert@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at    |       University of Technology, Vienna
                               |       Austria / OLD EUROPE
                               |
           No, man! I shoot them, but I don't build them!
From: kgk@martigny.ai.mit.edu (Kleanthes Koniaris)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: H&K USP?
Date: 12 Jan 93 03:10:04 GMT


I was wondering if anybody knows about the new H&K USP.  I think that
USP stands for "Universal Service Pistol".  From what I read in Guns &
Ammo,

 - it will come in 9mm and .40S&W
 - it looks/acts like a Sig
 - it has a polymer frame
 - it is "inexpensive", by H&K's usual standards

I heard that it will be introduced at the "Shot" show, whatever that
is.  Does anybody know more?  Also, is there anything else coming out
that is new from other companies like Steyr?

        ---kleanthes
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Handloading startup info
Date: 11 Jan 93 23:31:05 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

I would recommend the Lyman manual(s).  I cannot remember if the new does
this, but the previous one did an analysis of savings/advantages from
reloading.  They also have manuals for just handguns and for shotguns. 
If your budget allows, buy some of the other manuals as well, Speer,
Sierra, Hornady, Hodgson, ?other?.  You might ask your local dealer for
the Accurate Arms, Winchester, Scot, etc. handouts for "recipes"

The cheapest setup (I think) is still the "nutcracker" hand reloader that
Lee, Lyman and others sell, but it is a close race between it and some of
the single stage presses made by Lee and others.

If you shoot a lot, you might want to seriously consider a progressive
press.  I like Lee (1000 will do handgun and small rifle, Loadmaster will
do anything up to .458 Winchester - 1000 set up for one caliber can be had
for ~$100, Loadmaster set up for one caliber can be had for ~$219) for
their prices, case feeders, and auto-indexing.  My second choice would be
one of the Dillon XL650 presuming it auto-indexes and has case feeders. 
The Dillon 1050 is nice, but I don't think it will do much more than my
Loadmaster and costs a lot more ~$1000.  The RCBS Ammomaster and Hornady
Projector seem to be good presses, but don't have case feeders the last I
knew, likewise the Dillon 550 (doesn't auto-index either).
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)