HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: an3360@anon.penet.fi
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Penis size (was muffin on parade)
Date: 1 Jan 93 17:32:00 GMT
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: soc.motss

Apologies to those of you with threaded newsreaders if I can't mimic the
subject headings exactly, but I haven't got post access.
In the short time I've been reading this newsgroup I must say it seems
very supportive and a safe place to me.  However you can't expect any
community of people with shared ideals and traits not to have disputes
in the course of daily business.  We not only support and cheer, we also
debate and cajole and differ all the time.  Things can go awry if and when
people are unusually passionate or sensitive or obsessed - as seems to have
happened in this thread.  I'd hope that at the end of the day we all 
understand each other's feelings a bit better for having thrashed it out here
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From: smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: EE statements (was: Re: Attention Skiers Boycotting Colorado)
Date: 31 Dec 1992 18:38:28 GMT
Organization: Colorado Springs IT Center
NNTP-Posting-Host: fajita19.cs.itc.hp.com

rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
> >If I'm following you right, you mean a married person can have 
> >his spouse/dependants on his insurance, but a single person 
> >can't have his roommate/unmarried SO on it?...
> 
> If by insurance you mean Health Plan, yes.

That's what I meant.  

> But other employers don't usually
> offer these benefits to unmarried partners.  And bennies like
> Tuition Aid, gym membership, credit union membership, special
> life insurance group rates, for example, are usually not made
> available to unmarried partners (and their dependants)...
> in

Agreed.  I don't know that these are EE issues, though.  The 
problem seems to center around not being able to marry, which 
would provide the companies with a clear way to determine 
that they should give bennies to given people.  Companies like 
things nice and neat; and it isn't that way yet.  Fix that, a
and a lot of these other things should be cleared up.  
> 
> But they don't always have "more responsibilities."  If they
> don't have children and their spouse is also working, why
> should they get more compensation than their single counterparts?
> Why does the company arbitrarily decide who "needs it" and
> who deosn't, merely on the basis of a marriage certificate?

Because they are the company, and that is their right.  If they 
think it is good business to pay people who either have a family 
or are likely to be saving for one (married people) that is 
their perogative.  It may seem unfair, but I don't know that 
it qualifies as an EE problem...

> Actually, he probably did it because Levi *cut off* funding
> the Boy Scouts because their discriminatory practices were
> in conflict with Levi's requirements for corporate contributions.

Yup, you're right, that was it.  

Walter

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lisbon@vpnet.chi.il.us (Gerry Swetsky)
Subject: Re: How did you find soc.motss?
Organization: Vpnet Public Access
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 04:22:14 GMT

nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>How did you discover soc.motss? Did you find it at the same time you
>found Usenet, or later?

    I knew of the existence of soc.motss even before I had access to
    Usenet.  My friends told me about it.  I first read it on chinet,
    the oldest public access Unix system in the Chicagoland area.

    Later, when I set up vpnet, I tried to figure a way to get soc.motss
    so I could read it on my own machine.  That finally happened when
    we bought a bbs type front end shell called akcs.  Now vpnet is the
    second oldest public access Unix system in the area and we have a
    full news feed.  I read a number of newsgroups besides soc.motss, but 
    motss was the first newsgroup I put on here and, although I don't 
    often post, I never miss reading it.

>nelson@reed.edu \/        You stupid vulgar greedy ugly American death sucker

    Thanks Nelson, and have a Merry Christmas.  That goes for everyone!

--
============================================================================
| B4 f+ g++ d t w k+:    S4/7 b++ g l/- y+ z o x- a j+ v    Gerry Swetsky  |
|                vpnet - Public access Unix and Usenet                     |
| Home (708)833-8122       vpnet (708)833-8126      lisbon@vpnet.chi.il.us |
============================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gerber@boulder.parcplace.com (Andrew Gerber)
Subject: Re: Minds Change *or* How to Mislead With Numbers
Organization: ParcPlace Boulder
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 02:08:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan3.201304.3597@athena.mit.edu> tcarlin@athena.mit.edu (Thomas B Carlin) writes:
>============================================
>Andy Gerber writes:
>
>>>A new Denver Post/News 4 Poll shows there's a backlash in
>>>Colorado to the growing national boycott of the state over
>>>Amendment 2, the citizen intiative that barred laws
>>>protecting gays.
>
>>>People are more angry than ahamed, and they don't think a
>>>repeal effort would succeed.
>
>(1)  This is very much the EXACT same reaction the Arizona had
>	to the boycott of that state.  Surprise, surprise,
>	they changed their minds.
>	     ^^^^^^^
>(2)  Hunger is a great motivator.
>
>============================================
>
>Boycott CO, and Ignore the Auntie Toms!!!
>
>
>============================================
>
>Tom - "I ain't nobody's Aunt" - Carlin

I did not write the above text.  It's from the Denver Post article.

I think education will do more to sway Colorado voters than a boycott.
Only the poor will go hungry, and they don't vote much.  Most
Coloradans are tired of hyper-development anyway; a slowdown will be
welcome.  This has been said before: Colorado is too beautiful a state
to leave to the straights.

Andy (who's an uncle twice over)
-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------/
/ Andy Gerber		     / gerber@boulder.parcplace.com       /
/ ParcPlace Boulder          / (303) 440 9991 x4212               /
/-----------------------------------------------------------------/ 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: et al. [was Re: Changing standards of ...]
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 23:47:32 GMT

> jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:
>> Arne Adolphson (adolphso@mizar.usc.edu) wrote:

>> Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.  I did notice the "et.", but when I
>> copied Matthew's phrase word for word I neglected to correct it.
>> Forgive me?
>
>But of course!  I would even if the New Year weren't
>upon us.
>
>> I don't know about anyone else, but I'm favorably disposed to 
>> just about everyone this week.
>
>I'd pretty much have to say the same thing--it's been
>quite a year, quite a *good* year I'd say...

That's nice.  I was afraid all this Latin would lead you
to complain about an "annus horribilis" (Latin for "royal
pain in the ass" :-))...
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Private antidiscrimination policies in CO (was Re: Attention...)
Date: 1 Jan 1993 02:21:06 GMT
Organization: Colorado Springs IT Center
NNTP-Posting-Host: fajita19.cs.itc.hp.com

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> Actually, you haven't been thinking about it at all; you
> only think you have.

Yes, I don't accept something that is said to me straight-out, 
so I must not be thinking...must be insane...this is a recording..

> You know, Walter, some of the people who regularly post here
> are straight, and they don't run into any of what you've run
> into.  The difference, reluctant as you may be to entertain
> the notion, lies with your attitude. 

Absolutely, they are PC, and have accepted what they "should". 
because in a matter of a couple of weeks I haven't, I'm not 
OK.  I've got a bad attitude.  You know, this is just the 
approach the JWs used when they tried to convert me.  I've 
seen this before, its typical. 

> So far, you're just
> another oppressor, and I suspect few here will be sorry to
> see you go.

Most of all, myself.  Oppreser....yeah, let me guess; I didn't 
react negatively to your foul mouth because I don't appreciate 
the language, I did it because I hate you for being gay!  Yeah,
that's the ticket!  

> Don't tell us how to run our lives, Walter.  This newsgroup
> is not for you.  It's time you ran along.

Wow, can't even ask people to keep the replies on the vote 
into one heading without oppressing you, eh?  It is time
I ran along, I'm starting to understand where bigotry 
comes from...thanks a lot..

Walter

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu (Tracey McCartney)
Subject: Re: How did you find motss (was Re: A Better Year Ahead
Organization: Home of the @&#^%$* Crimson Tide
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:31:02 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.002333.16833@u.washington.edu>
rhiann@carson.u.washington.edu (Sandy --not Sandra) writes:
 
>I found soc.motss by reading a.p.h for a couple of weeks, and reading a flame
>from someone about how soc.motss was annoyed by the cross-posts.  I checked
>out soc,motss almost immediately.
 Ditto. And I think I read in the FAQ that a deliberately opaque name was
chosen for this newsgroup in an effort not to attract homophobic flamers. Some
of the suggestions I've heard to replace motss would be pretty obvious to the
outside world. If there's still a concern for our privacy...
Oh, and happy holidays, everyone... I'm going to spend Christmas with my
folks. I remember once upon a time thinking that after I came out to them
(last October), everything would be sweet and uncomplicated. Sigh...
 
Tracey
Shyster stealth lesbian weasel-in-training
shyster: (prob. from Scheusster fl 1840 Am. attorney frequently rebuked
in a New York court for pettifoggery)
Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: zw{i,a}cky matters
Date: 3 Jan 93 05:55:09 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <92366.144938SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>,
SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Graydon) writes:
> 
> A therblig is a 'Gilbreth' spelt backwards, ...

That's right - I knew it was an anagram of some blighter or other.

-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"*crib-biting* in horses, a vicious habit of biting the manger, etc.,
and swallowing air" -- Chambers English Dictionary (1988)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: daviss@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Stephen Davis)
Subject: Contact for Boycott Colorado Inc?
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 18:58:07 GMT

I understand from recent news reports that there is now an entity called  
Boycott Colorado Inc., a grassroots lesbigay group *in Colorado* helping  
organize the national boycott.  The Jan 12 Advocate mentions a Terri  
Schleder as the spokesperson.

Does anyone have address or phone information for Schleder or this  
organization?  (Sorry if it's been posted already and I missed it.)  

We're trying to organize some kind of response here at Columbia and would  
like info on Colorado companies and products to boycott, as well as CO  
companies and organizations having lesbigay antidiscrimination policies.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@aix02.ecs.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Austin, TX joins Colo. Boycott
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 06:33:44 GMT

tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett) writes:

>In article <RHAYDEN.92Dec24110720@hqsun2.oracle.com> rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden) writes:
>>Wow!  Is there something different about Austin from the rest of
>>Texas?

>Ron, Austin has had laws supporting equal rights of access for g/l
>people as far back as '74 (I believe).  Moreover, it is the home to a
>lots of hi-tech companies... most of which lead the rest in
>recognizing that diversity in the workforce is what has made America
>so great.  And, last but not least, Austin was home to some very hip
>hippies... they ran the good ol' boys out of town :)

Are you saying hat AUSTIN, TEXAS has had a gay rights ordinance on the
books since 1974??

A broader question, do all 9 cities that are boycotting Colorado have
gay rights ordinances? I would presume YES.

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE
The Lyrics Transcription Project: Cocteau Twins Division, section 319
11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: swc@fig.citib.com (Steve Carpenter)
Subject: Re: Marky Mark on New Years Eve
Originator: swc@swcdev
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 18:35:32 GMT


Just for the record,  Marky-Mark does *NOT* take off his shirt for a primarily
gay crowd. There's a big argument about that with 'Paragon', a gay club in
Miami Beach, where Marky-Mark is to appear.  Apparantly this was also the case
at a New York club called USA.

I'd be interested in knowning what happens at The Saint At Large.

-- 

Steve Carpenter                                  
5 Jane St.  New York, NY  10014-1934
(212) 691-8547                                  CIS: 70313,122
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: misek@boulder.parcplace.com (Steve Misek)
Subject: Re: Minds Change *or* How to Mislead With Numbers
Organization: ParcPlace Boulder
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 22:01:07 GMT

I find your response to Andrews posting was blatently offensive.

The volume of misinformation regarding Colorado's #2 going
out on the net is overwhelming.  Both Andrew and Kevin in
Denver have been trying to get truthful, up to date information
out onto the net.

Since #2 was passed, most state reps have been busy working with
the Gay community finding ways to thwart, repeal, and correct
this measure.  Most responsible Gay leaders in the state disagree
with the Boycott - we are currently working **WITH** our political
leaders in the state.  

Ask yourself this question:  If our straight leaders are faced with
the choice of helping us thwart #2, or have to use their time to
prevent or circumvent misguided boycotts - which do you **REALISTICALLY*
believe they will do?  We are working within the system, stop making
it so difficult for us.

If you really want to help the situation, put your money where your
mouth is and contribute money to either CLIP or the Lambda Legal
defense fund.  If your contribution is as big as your mouth, I'm
sure we can expect a fairly large contribution.

 :: Andy Gerber writes:
 :: 
 :: >>A new Denver Post/News 4 Poll shows there's a backlash in
 :: >>Colorado to the growing national boycott of the state over
 :: >>Amendment 2, the citizen intiative that barred laws
 :: >>protecting gays.
 :: 
 :: >>People are more angry than ahamed, and they don't think a
 :: >>repeal effort would succeed.
 :: 
 :: (1)  This is very much the EXACT same reaction the Arizona had
 ::         to the boycott of that state.  Surprise, surprise,
 ::         they changed their minds.
 ::              ^^^^^^^
 :: (2)  Hunger is a great motivator.
 :: 
 :: ============================================
 :: 
 :: Boycott CO, and Ignore the Auntie Toms!!!
 :: 

steve misek
misek@parcplace.com
From: storner@diku.dk (Henrik St|rner)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Small grooming question
Date: 28 Dec 92 21:44:05 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>In article <1hnconINN62i@im4u.cs.utexas.edu> osborn@cs.utexas.edu (John Howard Osborn) writes:
>>My lover and I like it when I keep my head shaved smooth, but the
>>mechanics are kinda tough.  Knowing that various motssketeers out
>>there do the same thing, could you let us in on what kind of
>>razor (or electric) you use, how you keep from cutting yourself,
>>how you keep from missing spots, etc?

>Have you tried using an Epilady?  (Ow, ow, ow, ow...)

Yes.

But only once ...
--
Henrik Storner (storner@olivetti.dk / storner@diku.dk)
Tech. Support
Olivetti Denmark
From: owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: A Better Year Ahead
Date: 23 Dec 92 22:05:14 GMT

In article <Bzpyo7.2B8@queernet.org>, rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
> In article <18219@autodesk.COM>, owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
> |> In article <1992Dec22.003202.26314@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu
> |> (Jess Anderson) writes:
> |> What I'm asking is if there is *any* sort of official *usenet*
> |> recognition that we can point to when and if some site 
> |> blatantly disregards provisions of a chartered newsgroup
> |> that has been officially voted into the soc. hierarchy?
> 
> (a)There is no such thing as a "chartered" newsgroup. Moderated newsgroups can
> have enforced policies; other cannot.

well that answers that then !
but there are netiquette guidlines and other conventions to usenet
newsgroups, I was asking about policys in regard to those guidelines
specially in the issue of the scope of the first order portion of the
newsgroup names ( ie: soc., talk., misc.)

> 
> (b) Soc.motss was not "voted" into the soc. hierarchy in the sense that soc.bi
> was.  It pre-existed soc., and was *reorganized* into it.

net.motss was voted, and the reorganization into soc.motss was alo voted on,
wasn't it ?

so what happens if someone newgroups a soc. group
without voting? is any co-ordinated action taken? by whom?
under what authority?

LUX ./. owen


--
D. Owen Rowley {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen

  " It will be a cold March 17th that I celebrate the imposition of
	Romes rule, on Pagan Ireland. Erin go ppphhhhhttttttt! "
From: lisbon@vpnet.chi.il.us (Gerry Swetsky)
Subject: Re: A Better Year Ahead
Organization: Vpnet Public Access
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 12:55:52 GMT

owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
>
>Of couse, I understand this completely, I'd just like to get some feedback
>from the usenet news.gods or whoever, about what kind of steps we can take
>to at least have a technical high ground to stand on when invasions
>or harrasment happens.

    You don't think that soc.motss is the *only* newsgroup that suffers
    from this sort of problem, do you, Owen?  I'm sorry, but it goes
    with the territory.  We just have to deal with it, that's all.

--
============================================================================
| B4 f+ g++ d t w k+:    S4/7 b++ g l/- y+ z o x- a j+ v    Gerry Swetsky  |
|                vpnet - Public access Unix and Usenet                     |
| Home (708)833-8122       vpnet (708)833-8126      lisbon@vpnet.chi.il.us |
============================================================================
Xref: sparky soc.motss:54257 alt.atheism:24636
From: d000dlphi@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (David Speakman)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: The WRONG Cure
Date: 31 Dec 92 00:48:46 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

In article <1992Dec30.204834.17145@athena.mit.edu>, tcarlin@athena.mit.edu (Thomas B Carlin) writes:
> =====================================
>>Well!  There was a time when I _thought_ I didn't want to be homosexual.
>>As I discovered, it wasn't because I wanted to be straight, it was because
>>the Christians messed me up so much that I was ashamed of being gay!
>>(Yes, I did read a book called _You Don't Have to be Gay_)
> 
>>I suppose some of these same people have been so brainwashed by Christian
>>groups that they can't accept themselves. 
> 
> Remember, Christianity can be cured!  Thanks to their help, only 1 out of 5
> people in the world are now Christian, and that number is dwindling.  Send
> your money NOW!
> 

Breakdown of Christians Vs. Godless heathens (_1993_Universal_World_Almanac_)

christians - 1,548,5000,000 people (32.4% of the population)
nonreligious/athiests - 1,026,400,000 (21.3% of the population)

The Xians are still ahead...

David Speakman,
Heathen
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden)
Subject: Re: A Better Year Ahead
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, Ca.
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 18:53:30 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Dec19.054427.18239@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

   In addition to the possibility of splitting soc.motss into
   several newsgroups, along the lines presently being
   discussed, there is the issue of vigilance about
   cross-posting, which way more than half the time raises the
   heat without raising the light.

This is partially a matter of education.  I fell into responding to
cross-posts many times, because I had no idea it was happening.  The
only indication is a "Newsgroups:" line that is not at all obvious
once I start a posting.

However, having it brought to my attention a few times did the trick.

   -  Changing the base name from motss to something more
      obviously related to lesbian, gay, and bisexual
      interests.  We've had very full discussions of this issue
      several times in the not too distant past.  From those
      discussions, "gay" alone won't fly.  There's close to
      complete consensus, I think, that we need greater
      inclusiveness than that.  Strictly for economy, lots of
      us say LGB or LGBO to refer to the cohort.  But unless
      you're already familiar with that acronym, it's every bit
      as opaque as motss.  That's why I currently favor
      soc.lesbigay.

I agree.  Lesbigay is an obvious word (well, you might have to think
about it for a couple of seconds) that is inclusive.

   -  Several posters make regular appearances here *primarily*
      as harassers. [stuff deleted]

   -  Since its inception, we've loosely considered the
      founding message as a kind of charter for soc.motss, the
      major tenet of which, in practical terms, is that our
      sexuality is not open for discussion as something that
      needs to be defended.  Notwithstanding that we can always
      profit from talking about what is or isn't appropriate
      here, it seems to me that at a minimum we can agree that
      who and what we are is not an appropriate debate.  To
      that end, perhaps we should now create and ratify a
      formal charter, and when people post inappropriate things
      here, send it to them with some form of cease and desist
      message.

I think the institution of a charter for soc.motssorwhatever would be
a good thing.  As long as alt.politics.homosexuality remained open for
any subject of conversation.
--

  - Ronald Hayden

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
   | Documentation Manager, Oracle Toolkit Group                    |
   | Co-chair of Oracle Lambda, Oracle's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual group |
   | Writer, magician, and various other things                     |
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: How did you find soc.motss?
Date: 22 Dec 1992 03:19:41 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Dec22.104217.18245@reed.edu> 
nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

> Nelson, who's never even seen a front pannel switch, or for that
> matter a card reader.

Ah, but are you in on "free-93"?  *That's* the real test, one
that I fail miserably.

Arne (boo-hoo)

Newsgroups: soc.motss