HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: joi@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (JMM)
Subject: Re: Working with Wolves
Organization: AT&T, Denver, CO
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 02:11:24 GMT

In article <BuDoCC.J6A@acsu.buffalo.edu> v094lrtr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Brent Fiene) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.184445.25108@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, motto@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (mary.rita.otto) writes...
>>In article <BuDBns.Aw4@acsu.buffalo.edu> rmr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Richard M. Romanowski) writes:
>>>pierccm@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:
>>>
>>>>Hi!
>>>
>>>>Anyone else out there interested in working with wolves as a career (or
>>>>already working with them)?
>>>
>>>	Well, you could go to Alaska with a 7.65 mm and shoot down the
>>>damn airplanes ... and anybody who crawls out of them alive ...
>>>
>>>	... but assuming you don't have an automatic weapon handy, you 
>>>could do something more constructive ... like sabotage the planes on 
>>>the ground.
>>(some more suggestions deleted)
>>>
>>>OWooOOOOOoooooOOOO
>>>Rick
>>Rick -
>>Why do you advocate killing of humans?  Why do you advocate sabotage?
>>Don't humans have a right to live that is equal to the wolves?  Aren't
>>humans part of the animal kingdom?
>>Mary Otto
>
>saying that hunting is legal is saying that we are a superior species.
>we have alot to learn from wolves(and other species). i advocate the
>hunting and killing of sane murderers who kill for the fun of it. if you
>dont like it... go to hell!
>
>-brent

Wolves hunt.  Wolverines also hunt--for the fun of it.  Weasles have been
known to slaughter an entire hen house and leave it.  That also sounds
like hunting "for the fun of it".

It's not very constructive to insult and condemn out of hand.  Humans are
part of the animal kingdom, and the biggest fault I see is not recognizing
that we are PART of nature and must regain that sense of living with and 
not against the rest of nature.

Incidentally, saying things like "do nature a favor, stay the hell away
from it" fails to recognize that we are a part of it.  We don't have to
destroy when we appreciate.

Fanaticism on either side of environmental issues will never solve the
problems that we've created.  It only creates more problems and fuels
the fires that destroy.

I can understand the anger you're displaying.  I sometimes get very angry,
too--and definitely very sad to see beautiful creatures destroyed by
thoughtless or callous individuals.  The key is *education* and understanding
the other points of view.  That way we can persuade, convince, and preserve
what we most love, without becoming destroyers ourselves.

	Joy Metcalf
From: felts@cucbs.chem.columbia.edu (Anthony Felts)
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Re: Working with Wolves
Date: 11 Sep 92 21:29:23 GMT
	<1992Sep10.184445.25108@cbfsb.cb.att.com> <BuDoCC.J6A@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Organization: Center for Biomolecular Simulation, Department of Chemistry,
	Columbia University


In response to Brent's tirade:
>saying that hunting is legal is saying that we are a superior species.
>we have alot to learn from wolves(and other species). i advocate the
>hunting and killing of sane murderers who kill for the fun of it. if you
>don't like it... go to hell!

Sir, you seem to contradict yourself; you state that we have a lot to
learn from wolves yet our hunting dictates a mindset that we are
superior. Let me ask, what do wolves do for food? Answer: they hunt!

As a hunter, I only kill what I am going to use. Pure and simple. I
strongly and whole-heartedly disagree in the perversity of
slaughtering animals for the sheer sport. But there is a marked
difference between the reckless, unregarding poachers and those of us
who love nature and want to be a part of it, which includes hunting.
The responsible hunter is respectful of the animals and the land she
or he encounters. If this was not the case, then hunters would never
have imposed on themselves restrictions in the times they hunt and how
much they can kill. The revenues collected from licenses and taxes on
guns and ammunition go for game and nongame studies, refuges and
preserves. In all, hunters realize the danger that our skills and
slight advantage (which I qualify with witnessing the number of times
hunters have missed) create. I am not advocating that humans are
superior, but as equals, we can share in the hunt and can responibly
use what nature provides.
	As for those who abuse their powers, impose stricter
penalties. Help with the enforcement of protection laws (all the
hunter I know do this on a regular basis and have a working
relationship with game wardens and the state wildlife protection
agencies). Make people aware of the intricacies and bueaty of nature
which means don't cast people as aloof from nature and hence are not
to be a part of it.
	Also, why have a double-standard that one form of killing is
approved while another is not.

TO CHRIS, In keeping with the spirit of my response- look into working
for the Game and Wildlife services in Minnesota, Montana, Alaska, or
Canada so that you can help to protect the animal that you (and I) so
love while having the opportunity to study them.






-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony K. Felts <felts@cucbs.chem.columbia.edu> 
Dept. of Chemistry, 613 Havemeyer, Columbia University, New York, NY 10027
From: felts@cucbs.chem.columbia.edu (Anthony Felts)
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Re: I'm with Brent [was Re: Working with Wolves]
Date: 12 Sep 92 16:25:00 GMT
Organization: Center for Biomolecular Simulation, Department of Chemistry,
	Columbia University


To clarify what Brent is saying- you cannot hunt wolves, it is highly
illegal. The killing of wolves is called poaching!!! (Yes, this is a
bit on semantics, but it is important to make the distinction). I
would never agree with hunting wolves because it would serve no
purpose (ie. food); the only purpose in killing this creature is for
vanity (ie. having the hide rapped around some insecure, anorexic
woman). And those who only hunt for trophy deserve as little repect as
poachers. But do make a distinction between those who hunt for food
responsibly (Native Americans, Eskimos, and many Americans) and those
who poach out of disrespect for nature.
	As i have mentioned earlier, to stop this destruction requires
educating the public with the truth about American wildlife (and for
that matter all wildlife) and for people to help in the apprehension
of all poachers. Responsible hunters have done this for years and have
even allowed the priviledge to Game Wardens to search a premice for
illegal kills without a search warrant (no hunter I know disagrees
with this).
	Brent is not totally off base- more definitely needs to be
done about the wholesale slaughter of many animals. And I agree with
leaving wolves where they belong- in the wild. If ya want something
that looks like a wolve- buy a huskey.
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony K. Felts <felts@cucbs.chem.columbia.edu> 
Dept. of Chemistry, 613 Havemeyer, Columbia University, New York, NY 10027
From: ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill)
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: NOTICE:"Bigfoot/Sasquatch" Sightings Request
Date: 14 Sep 1992 02:47:14 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


   Our research group is currently investigating reports and sightings of the
animal known as "Bigfoot" or "Sasquatch". If you or somebody you know has had
such a sighting, or come across what may be evidence supporting the existance
of such an animal, please get in contact with us in one of the following
formats:
 
o Leave a private message in electronic mail.
o Call Thomas Hill at 216-362-6529.
o Or write:
 
  Thomas E. Hill
  16124 Richard Dr.
  Brook Park, OH 44142
 
 Contact with us can be totally anonymous if you wish. We are especially
interested in Ohio sightings but are by no means limited to investigations in
that state. Please, serious responses only.
-- 
"A large creature about 7 1/2 to 8 foot tall. It was greyish black in color,
and as it went away from me I seen the backside of it walking as a man would
walk on it's hind legs."- Former Sheriff Oliver Potter, Vancouver, Washington
The Cryptozoology Information Network. Want on our Email mailing list? Amiga!
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
From: motto@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (mary.rita.otto)
Subject: Re: Working with Wolves
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:44:45 GMT

In article <BuDBns.Aw4@acsu.buffalo.edu> rmr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Richard M. Romanowski) writes:
>pierccm@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:
>
>>Hi!
>
>>Anyone else out there interested in working with wolves as a career (or
>>already working with them)?
>
>	Well, you could go to Alaska with a 7.65 mm and shoot down the
>damn airplanes ... and anybody who crawls out of them alive ...
>
>	... but assuming you don't have an automatic weapon handy, you 
>could do something more constructive ... like sabotage the planes on 
>the ground.
(some more suggestions deleted)
>
>OWooOOOOOoooooOOOO
>Rick
Rick -
Why do you advocate killing of humans?  Why do you advocate sabotage?
Don't humans have a right to live that is equal to the wolves?  Aren't
humans part of the animal kingdom?
Mary Otto




Newsgroups: alt.wolves
From: amazon@sgi.com (Stormwind)
Subject: Re: Working with Wolves
Organization: X Industries, Heavy Weapons R&D
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:30:16 GMT

(Brent Fiene) writes:
>(Stormwind) writes...
>>(Richard M. Romanowski) writes:
>>>	Well, you could go to Alaska with a 7.65 mm and shoot down the
>>>damn airplanes ... and anybody who crawls out of them alive ...
>>>
>>>	... but assuming you don't have an automatic weapon handy, you 
>>>could do something more constructive ... like sabotage the planes on 
>>>the ground.
>> 
>>those of us who are pilots don't approve
>>of either suggestion; nor does the FAA.  
>>not all aircraft shoot at wolves.  [...]
>
>sorry bud, but i would be out there with a gun shooting down them planes
>myself if i had the resources. 

then you're an idiot.  there ARE pilots
out there who are very concerned for 
wildlife, and just happen to conduct 
wildlife counts BY AIRPLANE.  knee-jerk
reactions don't do anything except make
life worse for those people who aren't
engaged in the activity you're reacting
against.

>if you dont have a gun shooting out of
>your plane, or if you dont fly people places to hunt wolves, then i guess
>you will be fine.

not according to romanowski up there.
he didn't specify anything about the
plane needing to have a gun sticking 
out of the cockpit, he was advocating
sabotaging "planes on the ground" AT
RANDOM without any proof of the plane
being involved in anything nebulous.

that makes him...and anyone else advocating
such a stupid act...every bit as bad as
the creeps going on safari from the air.
and if you try to pull a stunt like that,
well, you deserve to have your life destroyed,
which i can guarantee you the FAA can and
will do.  

>>my wolf hybrid was partially housebroken.
>>if you took her for a walk before putting
>>her in the garage for the night, she wouldn't
>>mess the floor.  if she didn't get walkies,
>>however, the floor had to be hosed off the
>>next morning.
>
>i imagine this would be quite the mess. all this talk of housebreaking
>wolves. fuck that, they are wild creatures. why subvert yet another
>species to eternity in prison.

you might want to back up and re-read.
i said wolf HYBRID.  some people refer to
hybrids as "wolves" or occasionally as
"dogs".  this does NOT mean they've dragged
wild animals in from the forests and
are trying to tame them.

			stormwind

			hell's amazon
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
From: v094lrtr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Brent Fiene)
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Re: Working with Wolves
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:44:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep10.163059.27037@odin.corp.sgi.com>, amazon@sgi.com (Stormwind) writes...
>(Richard M. Romanowski) writes:
>>pierccm@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:
>>>Anyone else out there interested in working with wolves as a career (or
>>>already working with them)?
>>
>>	Well, you could go to Alaska with a 7.65 mm and shoot down the
>>damn airplanes ... and anybody who crawls out of them alive ...
>>
>>	... but assuming you don't have an automatic weapon handy, you 
>>could do something more constructive ... like sabotage the planes on 
>>the ground.
> 
>those of us who are pilots don't approve
>of either suggestion; nor does the FAA.  
>not all aircraft shoot at wolves.  if you
>DO see some jerk in an aircraft shooting
>at wolves, what you CAN do is take down 
>the tail number (usually starts with an N,
>located along the tail of the fuselage, 
>sometimes on the rudder section of the tail
>itself), the color of the aircraft, whether
>the wings were up high or down low, and 
>report them to the FAA or the nearest airport
>with a control tower, who can forward your
>complaint.  this will cause *plenty* of grief 
>if they get their hands on the guy.  best yet 
>is to videotape the offender in person, and mail 
>the FAA a copy of the videotape.

sorry bud, but i would be out there with a gun shooting down them planes
myself if i had the resources. if you dont have a gun shooting out of
your plane, or if you dont fly people places to hunt wolves, then i guess
you will be fine.

> 
>>	BTW, on the topic of raising wolves indoors, I seem to recall
>>something from Lopez'_ Of__ Wolves_ and_ Men_ to the effect that wolves 
>>cannot be housebroken.  I wouldn't know, never having touched a wolf.
> 
>my wolf hybrid was partially housebroken.
>if you took her for a walk before putting
>her in the garage for the night, she wouldn't
>mess the floor.  if she didn't get walkies,
>however, the floor had to be hosed off the
>next morning.

i imagine this would be quite the mess. all this talk of housebreaking
wolves. fuck that, they are wild creatures. why subvert yet another
species to eternity in prison.
> 
>			stormwind
> 
>			hell's amazon

sincerely,
brent
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Re: Working with Wolves
Date: 10 Sep 92 22:50:08 GMT
Reply-To: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.  Engineering

In article <BuDo6n.J11@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v094lrtr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu 
(Brent Fiene) writes:
> sorry bud, but i would be out there with a gun shooting down them planes
> myself if i had the resources. if you dont have a gun shooting out of
> your plane, or if you dont fly people places to hunt wolves, then i guess
> you will be fine.

Back in the sixties we had a saying (You know, back in the hippie era)
"Love me or I'll kill you!"

Funny how people who feel strongly about a subject that deserves
consideration, can drive people to extremes.  Unfortunately these things
do seem to cause that with some people.

The net result is to make people who are otherwise sympathetic to whatever
cause think twice about supporting it.  people who advocate violence
to prevent whatever outrage (in this case, airborne killing of wolves)
do far more damage to their cause than the monsters who inflict the 
damage on the wolves.  I have been reading this group since it was
born (?!) and have observed that the people who write in it are by and
large responsible and reasonable.  It is too bad that a small
number of reactionaries must suggest such a thing.


Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com
SHO  GOZE
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
From: motto@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (mary.rita.otto)
Subject: Re: Working with Wolves
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 18:16:53 GMT

In article <BuDoCC.J6A@acsu.buffalo.edu> v094lrtr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Brent Fiene) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.184445.25108@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, motto@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (mary.rita.otto) writes...
>>In article <BuDBns.Aw4@acsu.buffalo.edu> rmr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Richard M. Romanowski) writes:
>>>pierccm@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:
>>>
>>>>Hi!
>>>
>>>>Anyone else out there interested in working with wolves as a career (or
>>>>already working with them)?
>>>
>>>	Well, you could go to Alaska with a 7.65 mm and shoot down the
>>>damn airplanes ... and anybody who crawls out of them alive ...
>>>
>>>	... but assuming you don't have an automatic weapon handy, you 
>>>could do something more constructive ... like sabotage the planes on 
>>>the ground.
>>(some more suggestions deleted)
>>>
>>>OWooOOOOOoooooOOOO
>>>Rick
>>Rick -
>>Why do you advocate killing of humans?  Why do you advocate sabotage?
>>Don't humans have a right to live that is equal to the wolves?  Aren't
>>humans part of the animal kingdom?
>>Mary Otto
>
>saying that hunting is legal is saying that we are a superior species.
>we have alot to learn from wolves(and other species). i advocate the
>hunting and killing of sane murderers who kill for the fun of it. if you
>dont like it... go to hell!
>
>-brent

Brent -

It sounds to me like you are already in hell, living in a world where
humans are permitted to hunt wolves.  But I won't take your advice.

You still haven't answered my questions.  And I don't think becoming
a sniper or saboteur was the kind of career advice that was requested!

I believe that it is possible to respect humans and appreciate wolves
at the same time.

If you really feel so negative about humans, why are you wasting
time communicating with them over the net?

Mary Otto
From: rmr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Richard M. Romanowski)
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Re: Working with Wolves
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:14:15 GMT
Organization: UB

pierccm@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:

>Hi!

>Anyone else out there interested in working with wolves as a career (or
>already working with them)?

	Well, you could go to Alaska with a 7.65 mm and shoot down the
damn airplanes ... and anybody who crawls out of them alive ...

	... but assuming you don't have an automatic weapon handy, you 
could do something more constructive ... like sabotage the planes on 
the ground.

	BTW, on the topic of raising wolves indoors, I seem to recall
something from Lopez'_ Of__ Wolves_ and_ Men_ to the effect that wolves 
cannot be housebroken.  I wouldn't know, never having touched a wolf.

	But hey, be kind to Nature -- stay the hell away from it!
	Unless you intend to do something constructive.  E.g., find
wolves living in toxic waste dumps and scare them off until the
dumps can be cleaned up.  

	Or, perhaps, tranquilizing wolves, drawing blood samples, and
measuring the health of wolves in the wild.

	Or, you could follow them and photograph them and get the Sierra
Club to make a great movie out of it.  That's less Bio and Chem oriented,
of course.

OWooOOOOOoooooOOOO
Rick
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
From: amazon@sgi.com (Stormwind)
Subject: Re: Working with Wolves
Organization: X Industries, Heavy Weapons R&D
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:30:59 GMT

(Richard M. Romanowski) writes:
>pierccm@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:
>>Anyone else out there interested in working with wolves as a career (or
>>already working with them)?
>
>	Well, you could go to Alaska with a 7.65 mm and shoot down the
>damn airplanes ... and anybody who crawls out of them alive ...
>
>	... but assuming you don't have an automatic weapon handy, you 
>could do something more constructive ... like sabotage the planes on 
>the ground.

those of us who are pilots don't approve
of either suggestion; nor does the FAA.  
not all aircraft shoot at wolves.  if you
DO see some jerk in an aircraft shooting
at wolves, what you CAN do is take down 
the tail number (usually starts with an N,
located along the tail of the fuselage, 
sometimes on the rudder section of the tail
itself), the color of the aircraft, whether
the wings were up high or down low, and 
report them to the FAA or the nearest airport
with a control tower, who can forward your
complaint.  this will cause *plenty* of grief 
if they get their hands on the guy.  best yet 
is to videotape the offender in person, and mail 
the FAA a copy of the videotape.

>	BTW, on the topic of raising wolves indoors, I seem to recall
>something from Lopez'_ Of__ Wolves_ and_ Men_ to the effect that wolves 
>cannot be housebroken.  I wouldn't know, never having touched a wolf.

my wolf hybrid was partially housebroken.
if you took her for a walk before putting
her in the garage for the night, she wouldn't
mess the floor.  if she didn't get walkies,
however, the floor had to be hosed off the
next morning.

			stormwind

			hell's amazon
From: pierccm@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Re: Working with Wolves
Date: 11 Sep 92 09:20:41 CDT
Distribution: na
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY


>> Much deleted stuff that has been posted about five times already anyway.

In article <1992Sep11.021124.23688@cbnewsc.cb.att.com>, joi@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (JMM) writes:
> 
> Wolves hunt.  Wolverines also hunt--for the fun of it.  Weasles have been
> known to slaughter an entire hen house and leave it.  That also sounds
> like hunting "for the fun of it".


You confused me on the point of this paragraph.  Are you saying wolves 
hunt for sport, like wolverines?  Or did I just miss the big picture?

 
> It's not very constructive to insult and condemn out of hand.  Humans are
> part of the animal kingdom, and the biggest fault I see is not recognizing
> that we are PART of nature and must regain that sense of living with and 
> not against the rest of nature.


Absolutely!  Man(kind) has always been one to destroy what he cannot
understand and/or control.  We have to realize that we do NOT own the 
Earth and that we have to share with all life.

 
> Incidentally, saying things like "do nature a favor, stay the hell away
> from it" fails to recognize that we are a part of it.  We don't have to
> destroy when we appreciate.
> 
> Fanaticism on either side of environmental issues will never solve the
> problems that we've created.  It only creates more problems and fuels
> the fires that destroy.


That goes for any dispute in life as well.  When two opposing opinions
butt heads, neither wants to give ground.  But the only way to solve the
problems is to quit fighting completely so the real work can be done.

 
> I can understand the anger you're displaying.  I sometimes get very angry,
> too--and definitely very sad to see beautiful creatures destroyed by
> thoughtless or callous individuals.  The key is *education* and understanding
> the other points of view.  That way we can persuade, convince, and preserve
> what we most love, without becoming destroyers ourselves.


I often feel the same way also.  Like I said before, man has a tendency to 
destroy what he cannot control . . . or what he fears, which is a big 
factor in the decline of the Wolf population.  If man were more educated,
about wolves and many other things, the world would be in better shape to
eliminate problems rather than animals or other people.
 
Let's work to solve problems, not create more.


Chris
Newsgroups: alt.sports.darts
From: dworden@cwis.unomaha.edu (David Paul Worden)
Subject: Leagues?
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 13:29:26 GMT

Does anyone know of any Collegiate level dart leagues?

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David P. Worden
dworden@cwis.unomaha.edu

Newsgroups: alt.society.anarchy
From: thant@void.esd.sgi.com (Thant Tessman)
Subject: Re: Anarchy and marxism
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 16:47:20 GMT


In article <1992Sep15.153737.24884@kth.se>, d89-sme@nada.kth.se writes:

> |> 	B) Marx frequently critcized enforced morality in society, yet 
> |> the communist society he declares to be the ultimate product of 
> |> history is completely moral, dictating certain ethical values from above.
> 
> This I don't understand. How can a communist society be dictating
> values *from above* ?

Certain people are gifted with proletariat insight into the nature
of historical forces and are therefore qualified/destined to 
represent the proletariat politically.

(Yeah, right.)

thant
Newsgroups: alt.society.anarchy,alt.cascade