From: hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn)
Subject: Re: Chi Sao  (Was Re: Wing Chun style...help!)
Organization: Network Systems Corporation
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 13:57:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.035742.18957@uwm.edu> ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty) writes:
>hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn) says:
>
>>I see no one's going to give this poor guy a straight answer...
>
>Hmm that's funny.  Thought I gave him a pretty good one.

Yes, indeed you did.  I hadn't seen it when I posted mine.

>                                                          Although
>there were specifics about the art that I generally don't give out.
>It's generally not good ettiquete to give out alot of specifics
>of one's style, especially in Wing Chun.

So we shouldn't talk about the Secret Death Touch here, huh? :-)

>>In practice, one brings one's forearms into contact with one's opponent's
>>forearms, and, while maintaining that contact (hence the "sticky"), one
>>attempts to make a touch on one's opponent (anything from a touch with
>>the fingers to the chest, to a teeth-rattling punch, depending on what
>>level you'd like to play the game), while avoiding a similar touch
>>from one's opponent.  Typically, one tries to maneuver inside the
>>opponent's guard, or to pin up both of his/her hands with one of
>>yours.
>
>Ehh...sorta.  The Forearms aren't in contact, it's usually the wrist

Interesting.  Maybe I'm just doing it wrong, but I *thought* we were
going forearm to forearm.

>in what's called a Wu Sao gaurd hand/palm block.  Many of the hand
>techniques are designed from natural body positions to give maximum
>coverage, yet maintain an overall contact with the opponent.  Hence
>the sticky "concept".  While the touch part is correct, one would
>not punch until they saw some structure deficiency, or sensed it
>thru touching.  Trying to avoid contact with the opponent like
>you suggest would not make sense, because you'd be touching him
>in the first place.  Unless your talking about avoiding punches of
>course.

Yes, I was unclear.  I didn't mean "avoid" in the sense of running
away, like a boxer.  Rather, as you say, one tries to maintain
a good defensive structure.

>        And one does not try to maneuver inside the gaurd, rather
>outside in, so you are punching so neither of his arms is able to
>reach you (whether you are simply using a larp sao or any other
>trap).  Much of the footwork in Wing Chun is designed to attribute
>to this goal.  Rarely would you go inside the gaurd unless
>the opponent was doing double roundhouses or something.

Actually, this is something we've been doing a bit of lately.
Working from the outside, go over the top with a Hin Sao, or
underneath with -- whazzit called? -- Jao Sao?  (for the Wing
Chun-impaired, imagine disengaging, like a foil fencer), then, of
course, continuing to press forward to the center.

I dunno if this is classical WC or not, but it seems to work ok, at
least on people who haven't seen the trick before.  Give it a try next
time you're in class and see if you can surprise anyone :-).

>>BTW, I'm told that it is emphaticly *not* good etiquette to walk
>>into a strange Gung Fu school and ask to Chi Sao with someone.
>>Supposedly, very shortly after doing so, you will learn more about
>>Chi Sao than most people care to know.
>
>Not really.  The Chi Sao excercise is meant as a learning tool, not
>to show your stuff.  It's how people learn, and maintain their energy
>sensitvity.  Asking someone to do Chi Sao with you is not like
>going into somewhere saying:
>
>"Ehhh....you think yourrrr Kung fu is Good?  Miiiine is better."  *

Well, it's your life, but, supposedly, there are places where it will
be taken exactly that way.  Just thought I'd try to save the original
poster a fat lip :-).

-- 
Peter Hahn           |hahn@network.com|"...In Peking, he told me, there lived a
7600 Boone Ave. N    |+1 612 424-4888 |famous boxer who dropped down from three
Brooklyn Park, MN USA|                |stories onto an interior courtyard
55428                |                |without making a sound when he landed."