HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch)
Subject: Re: Lynch's Spoiler Review: "The First Duty"
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 01:38:17 GMT

rlg@desktalk.com (Richard L. Gralnik) writes:
>In article 13295@cco.caltech.edu, tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:

>>Most of the guest cast were good.  My main objection here is to Richard Fancy
>>as Satelk--he made a truly miserable, and *dull*, Vulcan.  I think this was 
>>an acting (or maybe directing?) problem more than one of the writing; his 
>>actual questions seemed to be fairly short and to the point.  His demeanor 
>>and tone of voice, however, screamed anything BUT Vulcan to me.  Not a good 
>>choice.  

>I have to agree with Tim here.  I thought the Vulcan guy went to the Tomaluk
>school of acting.  I kept waiting for him to coolly hiss "Two men on the ship?
>Obviously I must have been misinformed."

Hey, I *like* Tomalak!  It's this guy I couldn't stand.  :-)

>>The two cadets of Nova Squadron besides Wes and Locarno (Hajar and Sito) were
>>fine--nothing seemed particularly wonderful, but they didn't need to do much.
>>
>I thought they were kind of useless,  especially Sito.  These are supposed to 
>be the crackerjack pilots of the academy.  I'd expect a bit more self-
>confidence even in the face of major disciplinary action.  

I've known a lot of hotshots that aren't that self-confident--and
especially given that they're in the middle of a coverup, being a bit
unsettled seems very plausible.

>>Then, there's Nick Locarno. I thought he went slightly overboard in his final
>>scene with Wes, but only slightly. Apart from that, he definitely managed to 
>>give off the air of, as Boothby put it, "coach, surrogate father, and best 
>>friend all in one" to the rest of Nova Squadron.  He really felt like a born 
>>leader--and as I'm sure others noticed, he seemed rather a Kirk-figure in 
>>many ways (right down to the way he walked at times).  His arguments started 
>>to ring false for me in his final scene with Wes, which wasn't so good--but 
>>the revelation at the end that he truly meant every one of them, to the point
>>of taking the fall himself, lends a bit of poignancy to the whole thing.  
>>Very, very nice.

>I thought the guy sucked eggs (oops, does Atsushi have that phrase 
>copyrighted?).  The little ceramic ducks holding paper on our refrigerator 
>have more magnetism.

I don't buy that.  I've backed off a little bit from the above, but I really
did see lots of "somethings" in there that could draw people.  Not me, but I'm
not much for personality cults most of the time.

Tim Lynch
From: sasjyh@thanos.unx.sas.com (Jeff Habrych)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: "The First Duty" Comments.
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:42:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: unx.1992Apr6.154240.1893
Organization: SAS Institute, Inc.  Development Source Managment
Originator: sasjyh@thanos.unx.sas.com
X-Bytes: 2339

"Sensors detect Spoilers ahead, Captain."

"Take evasive action, Ensign! Mr. Worf, initiate tractor beam. Keep
  them spoilers at least 25 lines distant."

"Aye, Aye Captain.  Tractor beam locked. Tractor engaged, spoilers
  beening pushed away now."
||
||
||
||
||
||
||
||
||
||
||
||
||
||
||
||
||
||
||
||
||
||
||
||
||
||
==

It was nice to see a "Wesley screws up and accutually gets punished 
episode".  I must admit I enjoyed this episode.  I mean, I never
disliked Wesley, (I think Wil Wheaton is a good actor) it is just nice
to see the writers start to take him seriously and write him a good
part.

Even though Ray Walston only had a bit part, I think he played 
Boothsby well.  I don't know about anybody else, but I imagined 
Boothsby to be a friendly old man whom everybody liked, not some
crotchity old codger.

Lacaro(SP?) has been called a weasel by others on r.a.s.c, but I 
disagree.  Everything Lacaro has done in his life has gone his way,
everything he said he'd do he's done, but now something has gone wrong
with one of his scemes.

He is trying to deny the fact that he convinced the others to be a 
part of something to elevate him to legend status and it cost one
of his team.  By getting the others to go along with the lie he 
is strengthening his own denial and feels betrayed when Wes confronts
him.  When the lie is exposed Lacaro does the right thing, excepts
the blame.

I think the Admirals knew what happened when the saw the long-range
display of the formation, but did not have proof of guilt.  They
could not make the accusation until someone came forward with the 
truth and the longer the inquisition lasted the greater the chance
that one of Nova squadron would come forward.

Did anyone else notice the model of the Original Enterprise, (the
same one you can buy at cons) in Wesley's quarters?  I wonder if
Wil is a collector to?

==================================================================

Today's Physics lesson: 
  
       When a body is submerged in water, the phone rings.

==================================================================
Jeff Habrych  Bldg. J Rm. 391 (sasjyh@thanos.unx.sas.com)

Development Source Management

SAS Institute, INC.
SAS Campus Drive.
Cary, NC   27513

(919)677-8001   ext. 7735
==================================================================
From: saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu (Brian E. Saunders)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Yet another opinion on "The First Duty"
Date: 7 Apr 92 16:12:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Apr7.111229.6007
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin - Madison
Originator: saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu

In article <23187@life.ai.mit.edu> mary@fresh-and-fruity.ai.mit.edu (Mary S. Lee) writes:
>*Spoilers* for "The First Duty"

[about 30 lines down - sorry, my news server doesn't understand control-L]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>A few pluses and minuses:
>
>- I found it hard to believe Wesley and the others would have
>  tried the maneuver in the first place.  Surely they would 
>  have been severely punished by the Academy even if they'd
>  succeeded?  If not, why not?  

It does seem rather odd.

>- the two female cadets were too insipid

Yeah - I guess they included them to show women cadets are just as talented
(since that was supposedly the top "team"), but then they had them just
stand around and let the 2 guys make all the decisions.  I sort of found
this sexist, even more sexist than if there were no women on that team.

-- 

Brian E. Saunders			saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu
From: ccmk@lure.latrobe.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Locarno = Kirk (Spoilers "First Duty"))
Date: 11 Apr 92 14:33:21 GMT
Organization: VAX Cluster, Computer Centre, La Trobe University

In article <1992Apr10.004658.10258@cco.caltech.edu>, tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
> kyle@uunet.uu.net (Kyle Jones) writes:
>>I do not see Kirk's refusal to accept defeat _before he is
>>defeated_ as a character flaw.  
> 
> I'm not claiming he, or anyone, should meekly lay down and die.  I'm claiming
> that anyone who goes in with the conscious *and unconscious* attitude of
> "I cannot possibly fail, ever" is someone who deserves what he or she gets.
> It reflects arrogance, and a major dose of hubris.  I don't fault Kirk for
> fighting to the end; I fault him for refusing to ever admit that there *might*
> be a time when he can't trick his way out of trouble.

"I cannot possibly fail, ever" is a symptom of a pathological
misunderstanding of Kirk's character that hounds the "I hate Kirk"
people in this newsgroup.  I bow to Tim's and other's mastery of
TNG folklore, but sometimes I think the view to so far back in
the TOS past is a little revisionist.  The correct quote really
should be something like "I will not fail, ever".  The emphasis is
on the refusal to give in no matter the odds.  I thought this was
particularly clear in ST2 in the few times defeat stared Kirk & co.
in the face.  Spock's death is another issue, and indeed
Kirk felt "young again" at the end despite the pain of the loss.

BTW, for those who believe Locarno is a young Kirk, I don't believe
we ever saw Kirk attempt to cover up a misdeed (mind you, we haven't
seen him misdeed - except for perhaps marooning Khan and his genetic
crazies in an unstable solar system!).  Perhaps Finnegan (from SHORE LEAVE)
was the Locarno type?  Kirk was apparently extremely studious and serious
during his time at the Academy.

While I'm on the subject...  The Kobyashi Maru incident was a test to
be taken more than once, with the object to see how the student reacts
to a "no-win" situation.  Reprogramming it seems like a minor
infringement, but also shows the "flaw" of Kirk in overcoming all
odds, even those stacked against him.

Mark Kosten
(ccmk@latrobe.edu.au)
From: pat@berry.Cary.NC.US (Pat Berry)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Picard is old! (Minor First Duty spoiler)
Date: 11 Apr 92 03:07:42 GMT
Organization: Berry Communications

cs201139@umbc5.umbc.edu (cs201139) writes:

> >Wan't MCCoy a RETIRED admiral when he was in Encounter? Also, McCoy could ba
> >age, but that doesn't mean he'll be usefull(in an active-duty Starfleet fron
> >line type of way-no flames about old age meaning uselessness please).
> >By the way, if McCoy was supposed to be decommisioned in STVI, how could he 
> >a retired Admiral?

Ships are decommissioned.  People are retired, and retired officers are
still addressed by rank.

> 
> Where do you get off saying that? They wanted to decommision the Enterprise,
> but what's stopping the officiers from going on to other parts of Starfleet.
> Nothing...McCoy could go be a teacher at the Adacemy or work for Starfleet
> Command. The Enterprise is not the only ship in Starfleet! Maybe Sulu would
> welcome McCoy on as CMO?

During ST VI, McCoy said "Three months to retirement."


Pat Berry                    pat@berry.Cary.NC.US
From: sll28@cc.usu.edu (LORNA_PAYNE)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Lynch's Spoiler Review: "The First Duty"
Date: 7 Apr 92 23:28:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: cc.1992Apr7.172855.54282
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Apr7.161202.18747@cco.caltech.edu>, brian_vickers@isd.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
> In article <1992Apr7.001430.13295@cco.caltech.edu> tlynch@cco.caltech.edu
> (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>>Now, some short takes:
>> 
>>--I'm trying to figure out exactly what school "the game against Minsk" 
>>referred to.  Is there another campus for the Academy, or is this a 
>>completely different *type* of school?  Any ideas?
> 
> There are probably several Academy campuses. The logo for the campus seen 
> in First Duty was for San Francisco. The triangular logo, with the rising or
> setting sun under the Golden Gate bridge, reads "Starfleet Academy - San 
> Francisco - Sol Sector" which implies that there are other campuses in other
> sectors, maybe even other cities on Earth--like Minsk?

Maybe even--daa-daa-da-daaaa--space stations?  So Franz Joseph isn't completely
retconned/invalidated.  Just outdated.  Besides, in the 24th century, with
subspace radio and all, why should the Adacamy be one centralized location? 
Lots of universities today have several locations, and students move back and
forth between them.  So in two years, maybe Wes will spend a semester (or the
equivalent) on Andor.  He'll certainly spend some time on board a ship--US Navy
cadets do that now. 

       ---------------------------------------------------------
               Lorna Payne
               Certified Math Geek and Grammarian
       ---------------------------------------------------------
         You are not Morg.  You are not Eymorg.  What are you?
       ---------------------------------------------------------
From: hendrick@ctron.com (Jim Hendrick)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Looking for an old parody
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:01:08 GMT
Organization: Cabletron Systems Inc.


Hi
	I once read an excellent parody of the crew from TOS being involved
with characters from the Road Runner cartoon. I was wondering if anyone
out there has a copy they could either email or post. Thanks

Jim

--
###########################################################################
### Jim Hendrick (hendrick@ctron.com)	###				###
### Cabletron Systems Inc.		###   " My opinions, etc are    ###
### P. O. Box 5005			### exclusively the property	###
### Rochester, NH 03867-5005		### of nobody in particular."	###
### (603) 332-9400 x1457		### 				###
###########################################################################
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt Hucke)
Subject: Re: Trek Uniforms New and Old (was:Bozeman Crew Not Stupid!)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 16:27:12 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.170443.1223@bnlux1.bnl.gov> schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder) writes:
>In article <mDsRiB5w164w@berry.Cary.NC.US> pat@berry.Cary.NC.US (Pat Berry) writes:
>
>No, I noticed it.  I thought it was an unecessary move to try and make
>the uniforms look different from St movie uniforms.  You might have also
>noticed that while the black belts were missing, the belt loopholes were
>still on the uniforms!

Uniform changes:
(all dates are approximate)

year     color         rank               notes                 source       
2252     tan/blue      straight stripes                         THE CAGE
2264     "             "                  very minor changes    WNMHGB
2265     tan/blue/red  wavy stripes       black collars         TOS
2270     "             "                  "                     TAS

2273     pastels       wavy stripes       "pajamas"             TMP

2278     red           pins               undershirt+belt       Cause & E

2285-9   red           pins               as above              TWOK
229?     red           pins               as above              TUC
     (TUC's exact date unknown... estimates from 2289 to 2296)

2344     red           pins               no shirt/belt         Yesterdays E

2350 ?   red           pins               as above              Family
     (Jack Crusher's hologram)
2350 ?   red/blue/yel  pips               TNG first season      Violations
     (Jack Crusher dead)

235x-64  red/blue/yel  pips               TNG first season      Suddenly Human
2365-68  red/blue/yel  pips               minor changes each yr. TNG 2-5

I think that's all... anyway, you can see that a series of uniforms only
lasts about 5-15 years...  The movie-style uniforms lasted an unusually
long time (2278-2350), with only the minor change seen in Yesterday's E.
Logically, they should have had 3 or 4 generations of uniforms in that
interval, but they didn't because of budget.

-- 
        Real Programmers Don't Eat Quiche.
                      hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
                      Gene Roddenberry 1921-1991
From: david@xlnt.com (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Locarno = Kirk (Spoilers "First Duty"))
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:28:16 GMT
Organization: XLNT Designs, Inc (XDI)

Spoilers:
















































v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey) writes:
>     BTW, anyone notice the time frame for the ^last^ attempted Culvort
>     Starburst (spelling?) -- 100 years ago.  Kirk himself?...   

I could not have been Kirk, they said when it was attempted before the whole
team died.   

-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com
the hapa haole
(or more precisely the hakka haole)
(or even more precisely, the hapa hakka hapa haole, or h^4)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: jamesb@nevada.edu (James Bender)
Subject: Re: Troi
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 22:43:12 GMT

>
>    I think Troi's butt is getting bigger.  This week, it was especially
>large.
	Better watch out! They could try to make an episode out of this! :)
			
						James B

						


Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin)
Subject: Re: Wes, Wes, Wes (minor First Duty spoilers)
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 92 03:08:22 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: usa
Originator: clin@coke.eng.umd.edu


In article <1992Apr6.022626.15717@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, huggins@z.eecs.umich.edu (James K. Huggins) writes:
>In article <1992Apr5.021243.7884@news.iastate.edu> slappy@iastate.edu (Rodney G Zenner) writes:
>

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>|By the way, what was the deal when Picard was talking to Dr. Bev after
>|he was notified about the accident?  Did she give herself a sedative, or
>|what?  I bet she keeps a hypo-spray of sodium pentothal in her desk
>|drawer.
>
>Nope -- just a worried mom trying to maintain her cool after hearing that
>her son could've been killed in a Starfleet accident just as her husband
>did.  I found her pre-occupation with details and keeping calm quite
>reasonable for someone who's trying to act like a professional, even though
>she really wants to react in quite a different fashion ...
>

   One small detail that they paid attention to was when Wes was working
with that device to strengthen his arm, then Picard and Crusher come in.
While they talk, Beverly is checking out how Wes's arm was doing.  A nice
detail considering that she is not only Wes's mother, but a doctor as well.

--
   ______    __    __   ___  ____
  / ____ \  |  |  |__| |   \ |  |    Charles Lin
 | /    \_| |  |   __  |    \|  |    e-mail: clin@eng.umd.edu
 | |        |  |  |  | |  |\    |   
 | |     _  |  |  |__| |__| \___|    University of Maryland
 | \____/ | |  |____                 "I hate big sigs." -- Moo
  \______/  \_______|
Xref: sparky rec.arts.startrek.current:5165 rec.arts.startrek.misc:3416
From: tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current,rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Kirk and the Reliant (was Re: Locarno = Kirk)
Date: 16 Apr 92 19:46:15 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

Followups set to r.a.s.misc.

yung@r-node.gts.org (Amos Yung) writes:

>I keep seeing people bashing Kirk for "not following standard procedure" in
>TWOK. Yet I cannot found *any* evidence of such. Here is the entire exchange
>during the raise shield or not scene:
> 
><approaching by Reliant>
>Savvik (To Kirk): Sir, may I quote general order 12. On the approach of
>any vessels when communications has not been established.....

...which presumably orders standard defensive posture.  At the very least, we
know Kirk doesn't follow them, since he later says he got "caught with his
britches down" and tells Saavik "You go RIGHT ON quoting regulations!"

>Kirk(To Spock): Is that possible that their comm system fair?

Most likely this was "...comm system *has failed*?"  It makes more sense.

>There is absolutely no mention one way or the order what "general order 12"
>demands. Maybe Kirk did follow that order by going to yellow alert.

Too little and too late.  He admits later he didn't follow them, and it's
strongly implied that by doing so he made a serious blunder.

Tim Lynch
From: jeh@cmkrnl.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Last act = let's start wrapping this up!
Date: 12 Apr 92 23:11:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: cmkrnl.1992Apr12.161145.423
Organization: Kernel Mode Consulting, San Diego CA

In article <1992Apr12.174626.218041@cs.cmu.edu>, mwgertz+@cs.cmu.edu 
(Matthew Gertz) writes:
> [...]
> Urg. This sounds just like every other Worf/Alexander plot previously shown,
> and it reeks of "everything will be be completely resolved and tied
> together in the last five minutes."  

Oh, you noticed that too, eh?  :-)

I almost invariably tape ST:TNG and watch it later, partly because I and my
wife have other things to do on Saturday night, and partly to avoid
commercials. 

My VCR has a real-time counter and can be set to display this, continuously, in
small, friendly letters at the bottom right corner of the screen -- and I
usually do set it that way -- so I have a constant indication of just how far
into the show I am. 

One can lose track of commercial breaks, but with the real-time counter the
"schedule" to which the scripts are written is painfully obvious.  e.g., when
the 0:40:00 mark goes by, you just KNOW that someone's gonna propose the
solution within a minute of coming back from the commercial break, and they'll
spend the rest of the last segment of the show implementing it... and, worse,
there won't be any major setbacks. 

I'd love to see them do a script where this is turned around:  Finish with
problem development by the end of Act I, and spend the rest of the show on a
solution.  

Come to think of it, they did something like this in "Power Play", and I
thought it worked well.  There was still some of the "nothing we try works
right until the last act" syndrome, though. 

It might be more interesting if the problem necessitates a complex solution,
with lots of people working on different things... and you don't see how all
the threads are going to come together until the very end... and they have a
few unexpected setbacks along the way.  Sort of like a "Mission: Impossible"
story.  (first incarnation of MI, not that awful Australian import!)  

(Hmmm... Speaking of Mission: Impossible, wouldn't Martin Landau make a great
Romulan?  Just kidding.) 

	--- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Consulting, San Diego CA
Internet:  jeh@cmkrnl.com, hanrahan@eisner.decus.org, or jeh@crash.cts.com
Uucp:  ...{crash,eisner,uunet}!cmkrnl!jeh
From: ottoh3@CFSMO.Honeywell.COM (Otto Heuer #3)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: "The First Duty" **SPOILERS**
Date: 6 Apr 92 23:18:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: tyrell.9204062318.AA01180
Organization: Hack-Man's Hangout
To: rec.arts.startrek.current (r.a.s.current)
Posted-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 18: 18:05 CDT
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9]
X-Disclaimer: I speak for me and not my boss; Honeywell's gain & Usenet's loss
X-Car: (612) 865-4301
X-Voice-Mail: (612) 785-4600 x8528
X-Internet: ottoh3@cfsmo.honeywell.com
X-2nd-Choice: hackman@pnet51.orb.mn.org
Received-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 18: 16:36 CDT
X-Phone: (612) 785-4343


Jeff writes:

spoilers for "Cause and Effect"



> And now the acting awards. For Best Actress, the award winner had no 
> challengers: Dr. Crusher. Her scene with Picard, when he told her of Wesley's
> injuries, was fantastic. Her facial expressions, eyes, voice, everything 
> was just as a worried mother (who lost her husband to space) would have had.

I was going to say "worst acting" for her, but I'm  sure she  acted the way
it was written for her (which had me rolling  my eyes).   So  I won't blame
Gates (this time).

If I had to pick a "best actress" I'd have to  go with  the Admiral Hitler.
She seemed to be the perfect choice for  the part--weatherd  from years and
years of  yelling  at little  boys.   Probably worse  that Picard's Betazed
academic-dude, but   probably   not   quite   as  bad   as  Riker's  Vulcan
academic-dude.

She even got more air-time than Beverly Crusher.

> For Best Actor: ___________
> (That's right folks, no winner. Sorry, but the only obvious choice going
> into it, Botheby, was just not that well played, I thought.)

Boothby might get best supporting actor, but I think they could have done a
LOT better considering the potential.

Best actor?    Maybe  Wes' commanding  officer.   They should  have had Val
Kilmer reprise his role from "Real Genius" though.  :-)

> For the Line Most Fear-Provoking in a Trekker's Heart, the winner is:
> Picard, to Wesley: "Staying at the Academy will be difficult..."

Strange.  I was thinking the exact opposite.  I was guessing that  a lot of
people at SFA would start respecting Wes now.   For this  reason, I thought
Picard's line was waaaay out of character.

                --Otto "HACK-MAN" Heuer
--
C, Pascal, Fortran, BASIC, Assembly Language, Snobol, Ada, APL, Prolog, LISP
Unix, MS-DOS, ProDOS       .  .   .   .... .  .   .   .   .   .   . Audio/Video
ottoh@cfsmo.honeywell.com  :..: .:.:. :    :.' .. :`.': .:.:. :`. :   Star Trek
hackman@pnet51.orb.mn.org  :  : :   : :... : `.   :   : :   : :  `:  Apple IIgs
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current