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Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1992 20:02:59 PDT
From:         LITERARY <LITERARY@CLOVIS.FELTON.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: random shuffling

Reply-to: Tim.Bowden@p0.f509.n216.z1.fidonet.org (Tim Bowden)
Fido-To: dorisann@tenet.edu

DU> This is absolutely uncanny. I was wondering of the possibilities
DU> of doing this only this morning.


There have been electronic continuing stories.  There is some
sort of synchronicity at work, because on my own board I note
our Continuing Story just kicked off recently.  Anyone may
contribute three lines, and it will go out through the mail
to someone's CIS number tonight, and as many other Email
addresses as sign up.

  I will gladly add anyone to the mailing list, and we can have
a remarkable chain if you like.  Just let me know and you're in
the chain.
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Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1992 23:16:00 CST
From:         "VALENTINE M. SMITH" <CDELL@UMKCVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      Well, MBM@pascal.uarc.upenn.edu,
              in attempting a line for "Surrealism,"

our site says your site doesn't exist, or is "illegal." My line, (after
three tries, I gave up sending to you):
On a hot summer day, we savored singing by friends, and the telling of old lies.
   VMS
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 14:55:29 EDT
From:         Randy Money <LIBRBM@SUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Jonathon Carroll

I recently read _The Land of Laughs_, Carroll's first novel, and
three of his short stories (these I found in anthologies: _The
Year's Best Fantasy_, for 1989 and 1990, I think).  Carroll does
not consider himself a genre writer, but a writer in the tradition
of Hesse.  I don't know about that, not having read Hesse, but
_TLoL_ is an interesting book that I read compulsively wanting
to find out what it was all about.  The characters are quite
well drawn and the ending makes sense in the world Carroll draws
for us and is chilling.

Only one of the short stories impressed me and I'll be darned if
I can remember its name.  If I get a chance, I'll look it up and
let you know.

By the way, Carroll has published two maybe three other novels
than _TLoL_ and _SIF_.

Randy
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Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1992 01:11:00 PDT
From:         Michael Bruce McDonald <MCDONALD@OREGON.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Richard Brautigan

oh man!  i fear that i've thoughtlessly spoiled *Anna Karenina* for those
who haven't read it!  I'm deeply sorry if i have . . . the book cries out
to be read.

M McDonald
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Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1992 22:13:09 EDT
From:         Ross Daniels <YA794C@GWUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: random shuffling
              25 Jul 1992 16:36:47 EDT from <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>

What a great idea.  Anybody else?
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 00:48:00 PDT
From:         Michael Bruce McDonald <MCDONALD@OREGON.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: ubject: Dostoyevsky

oh, come now; to reduce Hitler's career to a matter of the lead fish who
happened to get the school moving in a certain direction is very poor history
indeed, Fort Knox person.

MBMcDonald

p.s. *must* i stipulate that to call Hitler brilliant is in *no* way to
endorse him?  i simply think it dangerous to assert that only folks of
lower intelligence can be, have been, will be anti-Semitic (i am a Semite
meself, in case the above stipulation isn't enough . . .)
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:38:20 EST
From:         Graham Wolff Christian <GRAHAM@HARVARDA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Kafka's Prague
              28 Jul 1992 14:03:43 EDT from <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>

I suppose that the news about Kafka's haunts must be considered good, though I
am not certain what he'd have to say about the recycling of his territory into
tourist attractions, which is probably a great part of what the local board of
commerce has in mind.
I am no contemner of poetry, and am delighted to hear what you've been reading.
I go back again and again to Akhmatova, who at times is so good that she makes
my knees weak.
I take Chekhov's brilliance for granted, which I suppose is always a disservice
to such genius.
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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 22:11:49 EDT
From:         Ross Daniels <YA794C@GWUVM.BITNET>

I'm a bit of a Russophile when it comes to literature, I'm afraid.  Having rece
ntly taken an in-depth course of 19th century Russian literature, my current fa
vorites are Turgenev, Gogol, and Lermontov.  Turgenev's Fathers and Sons should
not be overlooked, although at times the philosopical aspects of the novel can
prove a bit annoying (e.g., nihilism).  Nikolai Gogol's Dead Souls and his shor
t stories, including The Overcoat and the Terrible Vengeance (but excluding Shp
onka and His Aunt) are excellent recommendations for those with a strong appeti
te for the macabre.  Lermontov's A Hero of Our Time is a common example of a ty
pe of character in early to mid-eighteenth century Russian lit, the superfluous
 man.  Check out some of the criticisms of Turgenev by Dr. Charles A. Moser, an
d/or his Cambridge History of Russian Lit for a solid understanding of the era.
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:24:30 EST
From:         LBH <helfrich@SIAM.ORG>
Subject:      Prose/Poetry
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

     I, for one, will willing discuss poetry with anyone who wishes to do
     so.  Bring on the poetry conversation.

     The recent conversation about Russian writers will send me back to
     the books mentioned.  A second (or third) reading is required.
     Thanks for the comments.  I enjoy reading something to see if I can
     understand another's point of view.

     I second the opinion on Chekov.  I like the plays, but I like seeing
     them produced more than I like reading them.

     Laura
     helfrich@siam.org
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Posted-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 20:20:32 EDT
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:20:32 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      Notes from Underground
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

I read this book years ago for the first time. I was in high school, and was
so taken by this story that I could not write in any other style for a long,
long time. I had read a lot of books as a young person, but I had never
come across anything quite like Notes from Underground! Of course, feeling
left out of the popular crowd at the time made this misfit character all
the more valuable to me. He was perhaps the first misfit hero that I had
encountered, and I loved it. I had heard of what Edgar Allen Poe called
"the imp of the perverse"--well here it was raging, and thinking, and
scheming, and desiring, and suffering, and hurting, and apologizing. The
sensitivity to insult, the exaggerated sense of pride all resonated with
me, a very miserable and often disliked person who wanted to create great
things. In that sense, it's an excellent book for the young (at least for
the young who need it). There is comedy, too, in all of his exaggeration
of gesture. He has so much _passion_! So what if he is twisted! I was
surrounded by a suburb largely devoid of any life at all, let alone
passionate life. I wasn't healed by it, but I took much more pleasure in
my sickness.Michael B.
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Posted-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 14:26:05 EDT
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:26:05 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      ubject: Kafka's Prague
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Cc: q

        Perhaps some of you also saw it in your papers this morning--a story
that featured a Kafka comeback in Prague, Czechoslovakia.  The Kafka Society
intends to rebuild the town Kafka lived in during the time he wrote _The
Castle_. The castle he was inspired by, said the article, still stands, though
it is in need of repairs. His cafe, too, remains.
        So far no one has talked much about the work of Chekhov, in particular
the short stories (I say in particular because I like them better than the
plays, at least better than reading the plays).
        Also, I was thinking that in addition to the estimable writers we've
been talking about, the twentieth century brought poets who are thought by
many to be of nearly that same statur--Osip Mandelstam, Anna Akhmatova, and
others. Is our group set up to concentrate on fiction, or is that just the
way it's worked out? Michael B.

& .
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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 13:55:36 CDT
From:         A575CCR <A575CCR@SEMOVM.BITNET>
Subject:      re: Hamlet actors

Plah!  Gibson was alright as Hamlet, but the one I considered to
be the best was Derek Jacobi in, I believe, the PBS masterpiece
series.
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Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 07:15:00 PDT
From:         Michael Bruce McDonald <MCDONALD@OREGON.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Robertson Davies

Thanks for the Davies quote, Tim, I look forward to the time I'll spend
getting to know this intriguing author in depth.

"And Mm."  *Finnegans Wake*, 115.
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 10:59:50 MEZ
From:         Oliver Gassner <PISTUD2@NYX.UNI-KONSTANZ.DE>
Subject:      Re: Franz Kafka
              21 Jul 1992 18:53:54 EDT from <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>

Just a very brief point on "Die Verwandlung" (Metamorphosis, "The Changing"
would be better as the German word is a GERMAN word and no latin one.)

The talk in the original of the text is always about a monster or animal.
Indications are given that it is panzered (english?) etc.
But there is NO MENTION of a bug or insect (Kaefer, Insekt etc.)
in the original. I never had a look at the English translation though ...

An anecdote connected with that: The picture of a "Hirschkaefer" (You find
out what this is in English) was supposed to be put on a Kafka-Cover
containing the story.... Kafka vetoed it.

I will not make any conclusions here but I think you get my point ....

Oliver

Oliver Gassner   PISTUD2@DKNKURZ1.BITNET OR pistud2@nyx.uni-konstanz.de
Snail:  Am Briel 51c,  D-7750 Konstanz , South-Germany, Earth
Aliases -- Relay-Bitnet: KRAUT  IRC: Kraut_II  MUDS etc.: "Hagen"
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Date:         Sun, 26 Jul 1992 16:57:12 EDT
From:         Ross Daniels <YA794C@GWUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Lermontov

Nabokov should be avoided in some instances, however.  His multi-volume study o
f Pushkin's Eugene Onegin is for the most part dry and useless, unless you just
 happen to be completely fascinated by meter, linguistics, etc.  Nabokov is any
thing if not thorough.  In his study of Eugene Onegin each allusion is meticulo
usly researched.  This might prove particularly useful for the mythological ref
erence that you just can't place, but for general non-academic pursuits there a
re better sources.

Has anyone read/ studies Pushkin's Tales of Belkin?
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Posted-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 13:13:07 EDT
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:13:07 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      Russions
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Ahmed Farah: There are probably quite a few of us, but I am one.  First
Dostoyevsky, then Tolstoy--a little later in my life, the stories of
Chekhov.  Good luck with your stories, and make sure to post whenever
you have anything to say about Russian literature.
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:00:13 PDT
From:         LITERARY <LITERARY@CLOVIS.FELTON.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: The Character of Levin.

Reply-to: Tim.Bowden@p0.f509.n216.z1.fidonet.org (Tim Bowden)
Fido-To: ecz5see@uclamvs.bitnet

We know how grace goes along the balance beam, because the
goddess Nadia rendered unto us the perfect 10.  Likewish,
we may put the clock on the next swimmer who churns over
the Hellespont, because we know how quickly the double
crossing was accomplished as of yore.  And when Floretta
di Giovanni reaches for the double high C, there be snoots
raised in approbation, recalling as they do the divine
diva Madame Metemusset's triumph in Vienna.




I would say, therefore, before we shall be able to truly
judge Levin's call to God and whether and whither it be
answerable, there must be among us at least one who has
traversed that ground with great and goodly results.

Someone unfold for a mold the nature of god, and the best
manner by which it is attained, and then we shall study
the literary progress of the pilgrim Levin.
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 23:32:46 EDT
From:         Tim Johnson <PH408014@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Of Levin and Ivan

>PT> p.s.: digression on the theological:  I see no reason why
>PT> good cannot exist without evil.
>
>I think it was Allan Watts told us why it cannot.  The light
>cannot exist without the day, and the good without the evil.
>The sop "God loves all of you" is meaningless;  if he loves
>everybody, he loves nobody.
>
>The simple fact that you choose to hold the door for the
>woman with her load, rather than entertaining us all with
>a pratfall, resonates with its duality.  We, all of us,
>are playing dualities constantly.  I am behaving thusly,
>to invite you to contrast with thatly;  I hold the door,
>which will cast my deed to dance like first light on an
>emerald bay wherever there be oafs who barge in doors
>and scatter packaged ladies.

  You'll excuse me if I accord Allan Watts no more credibility
than his argument will bear.  Once again, I mean to suggest
that "good acts" stand in contrast to the absence or potential
absence of good acts.  But a failure to act good is not an evil
act.  Not holding the door is not evil.  Yet it provides the
background upon which we can recognize the good act of opening
the door and assisting the woman with the packages.  To suggest
that any act which is not a good act (failing to hold the door,
in contrast to tripping the woman) dilutes the meaning of evil
into nothing.  And that should be sufficient to establish that
evil and good can be defined independently and can exist indepen-
dently.  "not good" is not "evil."  We *can* imagine one in the
absence of the other.

  But we are leaving Tolstoy and Dostoevsky far behind, and I
submit that unless someone wishes to tie this more directly
into a literary thread that we'd best let it drop.  ("Sure,"
they say, "after Tim gets in his last words.")  Okay, then,
I plan to make these my last comments on it, unilaterally,
failing any additional literary connections.

                                -Tim
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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:54:00 EDT
From:         IAN YORK <YORK@MCMASTER.BITNET>
Subject:      truth

With regard to the veracity of non-fiction:  Tom Stoppard's play (TV script)
_Squaring the Circle_ about the Solidarity movement in Poland is deliberately
set up to set the difference between truth and documentry.  He discusses the
issue with his usual wit and grace in the introduction to it.  You may find
this of interest.
        Incidentally, the Globe and Mail best seller lists (and several
other best seller lists) have the extrememely annoying habit of including
comic strip collections in the non-fiction lists (Attack of the Deranged
Monster Snow Goons has been on the non-fiction top ten for months).  Come
on, guys.  Nixon's autobiography is a little better than that.
-Ian
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Date:         Sun, 26 Jul 1992 02:53:00 EST
From:         George Mosley <MOSLEY@UNC.BITNET>
Subject: Re: books for freshman writing

> students, nowadays hard to say which, and would need to be balanced, obviousl
> with a different kind of prose. My personal view is that freshman writers
> should not be subjected to any kind of textbook. Writing is not school or
> a textbook thing ultimately, so why let these books drag a great thing down?

On the other hand, I think that writing *is* or is partially a textbook
thing, at least in the sense of the good old anthology.  Since Longinus,
we have had the collection of flowers.  With the rehabilitation of
rhetoric, I think we should rehabilitate the literary model and the
teaching of taste.
The current trends toward the textless classroom and discourse
communities leave  me absolutely cold.
Hmm, perhaps this should be on the composition listserv.
George Mosley (Mosley@unc.bitnet)
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Posted-Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 14:03:43 EDT
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:03:43 EDT
From:         MM <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      Kafka's Prague
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu
Comments: cc: q@pacscl.uarc.upenn.edu

	Perhaps some of you also saw it in your papers this morning--a story
that featured a Kafka comeback in Prague, Czechoslovakia.  The Kafka Society
intends to rebuild the town Kafka lived in during the time he wrote _The
Castle_. The castle he was inspired by, said the article, still stands, though
it is in need of repairs. His cafe, too, remains.
	So far no one has talked much about the work of Chekhov, in particular
the short stories (I say in particular because I like them better than the
plays, at least better than reading the plays).
	Also, I was thinking that in addition to the estimable writers we've
been talking about, the twentieth century brought poets who are thought by
many to be of nearly that same statur--Osip Mandelstam, Anna Akhmatova, and
others. Is our group set up to concentrate on fiction, or is that just the
way it's worked out? Michael B.
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:54:09 EDT
From:         Tom Frenkel <FRENKEL@CPMAIL-AM.CIS.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      re: Jeremy Irons as Kafka
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

> Mel Gibson was really GREAT in Hamlet, wasn't he?
>
Agreed; all the more because I was so surprised (I'm not that much of
a movie-goer and was saying "Mel _who_?").  Glenn Close wasn't too
shabby, neither...
                                        --Tom


-----------------------------------------------
Tom Frenkel
Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center
161 Ft. Washington Ave.     DAP-1310
New York, NY 10032-3784  USA
Internet:  FRENKEL@CPMAIL-AM.CIS.COLUMBIA.EDU
<<< Opinions expressed not necessarily those of
      my employer >>>
-----------------------------------------------
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Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 11:41:10 PDT
From:         LITERARY <LITERARY@CLOVIS.FELTON.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Karenin vs. Levin??

Reply-to: Tim.Bowden@p0.f509.n216.z1.fidonet.org (Tim Bowden)
Fido-To: ph408014@brownvm.bitnet

>  Levin was an anti-intellectual.  An anti-intellectual not
> because he rejected the sophistries of the intellectuals with
> whom he came in contact, not because he didn't have the
> ambition to be an intellectual, but quite simply because he
> didn't have the capacity to be an intellectual.

Seems a mite harsh.

> In the end, Levin only decides to believe in God since,
> well, that's what he's been taught, and lots of people
> do believe.


I recall his reasoning as somewhat more rigorous than *that*,
something of the order of, in the midst of a black struggle
against the forces of meaninglessness in the universe, a
decision to accept the order of an Almighty simply because
he has the capacity to ask that question.  I think, therefore
I am, might be closer to his line than what I see in the
article I'm responding to.

I'm not sure there have been any better definitions of god in
any of the works of Dostoyevski, as a matter of fact...
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:23:18 PDT
From:         LITERARY <LITERARY@CLOVIS.FELTON.CA.US>
Subject:      Re: Franz Kafka

Reply-to: Tim.Bowden@p0.f509.n216.z1.fidonet.org (Tim Bowden)
Fido-To: gs0383%springb.bitnet@siucvmb.siu.e

GE> Would anyone like to comment on The Castle, The Trial or The
GE> Metamorphosis -

The long, slow, inevitable strangulation by a sinister force
beyond law and social order - what could I do but equate _The
Trial_ with a trip to the Planning Department?  Though I was
cautioned against freely applying allegory, I never have been
able to resist the impulse...I suspect Burgeoning Bureacracy
to be the villain of this particular Kafka parable...
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