HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: todd@refrig.dixie.com (Todd H.)
Subject: Re: A R G I C allows itself far too much
Organization: throw it on the floor - it's happier there.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 13:49:00 GMT

jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz) writes:

>In article <1992Dec24.132250.12357@refrig.dixie.com> todd@refrig.dixie.com (Todd H.) writes:
>>pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF) writes:
>>>4. There is no mail link back to Argiq, so it gets nothing that it deserves.
>>
>>Just move down the path until you get a real system, and hit the postmaster
>>with your mail.                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>That would be "uunet".  The person behind the Argyc program is probably
>a paying customer of Uunet Corp., so there's nothing that can be done
>about it that way. Uunet /can't/ refuse service based on content...

I disagree.  Uunet is a business, and can do anything it wants to.  The
communication links they carry aren't regulated by the government, so far as
I know, and they aren't a public utility, so they're free to cut off anyone
that they want.

Y'all are just afraid to take on the task of pressuring an organization as
large as uunet, perhaps for fear of retribution??  Seems pretty silly, really.

-- 
Todd++;
------------------
todd@refrig.dixie.com
**** I voted with the majority this past election - AGAINST Clinton! ****
From: jbuck@messier.berkeley.edu (Joe Buck)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: Serdar Argic (was Re: Meanwhile, back at news.admin.policy)
Date: 23 Dec 1992 04:31:29 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: messier.berkeley.edu

In article <4107@randvax.rand.org> edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall) writes:
>Cutting off this fellow's feed, whether directly or through software mods,
>would be a dangerous precendent.  This might be one of those cases where
>we all have to put up with a bit of a nuisance for the good of the net,
>whether by our private kill files or our N keys.

I agree, but just barely.

My hesitation is because he seems to be using an automatic script to
grep for patterns and then send flames in response.  It seems to be
an effort to supress speech on his part: to harrass people into silence.
For each mention of Armenia vs the Turks, he posts about three semi-automatic
postings consisting mainly of text that has been posted before.  The
goal appears to be to get others to shut up, not to make a point, because
it's basically the same exact text reposted again and again.

I think that with only one person doing it, kill files are a reasonable
solution for now (which is why I agree just barely).  But what happens
when there are twenty people doing it, with half of them on complete
auto-pilot?  What happens when the auto-posting programs start going into
positive feedback against each other?  (Have I predicted the death of the
net yet? :-)





--
Joe Buck	jbuck@ohm.berkeley.edu
From: kbibb@maui.qualcomm.com (Ken Bibb)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: contacting anatolia.mn.org
Date: 30 Dec 92 23:44:25 GMT
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

In <1992Dec30.151226.23122@news2.cis.umn.edu> molenda@i1.msi.umn.edu (Jason Molenda) writes:

>Hello.  In a ``discussion'' in one of our regional newsgroups, it has
>been stated that the only message that has been sent to the system
>administrator of anatolia.mn.org was the mail bomb by Paul Pomes.  At
>least that is what the administrator of anatolia.mn.org claims.

>Has anyone out there tried contacting anatolia.mn.org in a _sane_
>manner (i.e. not dumping five gigabytes of crap down its throat.)?
>Could you please let me know (a) which mail address you sent the
>message to and, if you still might have the message handy, (b)
>what the text of the message was.

I forwarded the argic newspostings in news.admin.policy to postmaster
at both anatolia and uunet stating that these articles were inappropriate
for the news.admin.policy newsgroup.  I received no response from uunet,
but I did receive "this has been forwarded to /dev/null" from postmaster
@anatolia along with the entire post appended to it.  So the "mail
bombings" are actually an "interactive" sport (since pomes did not
mail bomb the site from what I understand).

anatolia's postmaster also sent a message to my postmaster stating
that I was mail bombing his site and to control me.  I'll see if
that post is still around (this all happened from another site that
I have netaccess on).

-- 
Ken Bibb                "he heard the snow falling faintly through the
kbibb@qualcomm.com	 universe and faintly falling, like the descent of
jester@crash.cts.com     their last end, upon all the living and the dead."
				--"The Dead", James Joyce
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: guru@halcyon.com (Dennis Wicks)
Subject: S.A. traps, etc.
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 05:07:49 GMT

I have been following this SA-Large Fowl thing for quite awhile,
and the possibility of it being at least partially automated, if
not totally AI is a little discouraging.

And an idea just occured to me.  Someone should run an analysis
of the time stamps on his posts.  (They are time stamped aren't
they?)  This would give you a further clue as to who or what is
flooding the net, or at least some groups.

If they are posted during some particular time period, then it is
probably one person who has something else that they have to do
at other times.  Also, the days of the week that they are posted
might give some interesting clues.

Just my two-bits worth.  (Inflation, you know!)
From: pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: contacting anatolia.mn.org - not encouraging...
Date: 1 Jan 93 03:40:47 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Dec30.151226.23122@news2.cis.umn.edu>, molenda@i1.msi.umn.edu (Jason Molenda) writes:

>Has anyone out there tried contacting anatolia.mn.org in a _sane_
>manner (i.e. not dumping five gigabytes of crap down its throat.)?
>Could you please let me know (a) which mail address you sent the
>message to and, if you still might have the message handy, (b)
>what the text of the message was.

I have sent messages to both Mudlu and anatoliyah.mn.org. The first one
was rather polite, short and contained reproaches about the biased 
approach shown by the Mudlu thing in its followup to one of my articles.
I received an answer... from anatoliyah.mn.org. It was one line:
"Your message was sent to /dev/null." In my next message I thanked
anatoliyah.mn.org for re-addressing my message to a more intelligent 
addressee than one to whom it was initially destined. I got no answer
whatsoever.

BTW, mutloids dared not accept my challenge of joining the war that
was posted here a couple of days ago, thus approving with their silence
that none of them ever had any balls worth mentioning. Even if they try
to persuade you that they have, don't believe them. They are but cowardly
liars accursed in the sight of God, Man, and Computer, and truly such
filth must be cleansed away and never again permitted to befoul the Holy
Net.

-- 
---
Thus spake Kalmoth the Dreaded, Bane of the Forests of Gnoy.
From: krol@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Ed Krol)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: contacting anatolia.mn.org
Date: 30 Dec 92 15:55:00 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

molenda@i1.msi.umn.edu (Jason Molenda) writes:

>Hello.  In a ``discussion'' in one of our regional newsgroups, it has
>been stated that the only message that has been sent to the system
>administrator of anatolia.mn.org was the mail bomb by Paul Pomes.  At
>least that is what the administrator of anatolia.mn.org claims.

The mail bomb by paul pomes was hardly a bomb.  What he did was
forward postings made to news.admin.policy which were inappropriate
back to postmaster@anatolia with a not saying could you please stop
gratuitous crossposting.  That got me a message from whats his 
name cudar the system adminstrator saying could you please stop the 
criminal acts being perpetrated on my machine by paul pomes.

>Has anyone out there tried contacting anatolia.mn.org in a _sane_
>manner (i.e. not dumping five gigabytes of crap down its throat.)?
>Could you please let me know (a) which mail address you sent the
>message to and, if you still might have the message handy, (b)
>what the text of the message was.

I don't have the text but I sent him a message which said,  All paul
was trying to do was trying to make one of your users use usenet
more friendily, and if he would stop crossposting to inappropriate 
newsgroups, paul would certainly stop.

I got back about 100 lines whose tone was that I was conspiring w\
in teh criminal acts with Paul Pomes and we would all rot in prison together...

To which I responded that when he could respond civilly I would be
happy to discuss it with him.

He then started sending me personally all the forwards paul sent to him
with a message on the front saying stop sending me this.  So I would copy
the first line and mail it back to him.

Childish but sometimes you need to decide what is the appropriate level
on which to fight.


>It is tough to hold a discussion with a system administrator who
>claims complete ignorance of the entire matter.  Any help would
>be appreciated.
>-- 
>Jason Molenda, University of Minnesota, Supercomputer Inst., Technical Support
>SGI Iris Admin        molenda@jason.msi.umn.edu       DoD #1867     '77 CB750F
From: molenda@i1.msi.umn.edu (Jason Molenda)
Subject: Re: (repost) Serdar Argic FAQ - everything you didn't want to know, but he replied anyway
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 22:28:14 GMT

kbibb@maui.qualcomm.com (Ken Bibb) writes:

>The sysadmin(?) or mn.org did some posts late last week on the subject:
>he has been trying to have a reasonable conversation with cosar, who
>seems to be denying any wrongdoing.  The sysadmin of umn is also working
>on this problem.

I hate to be picky, but it needs to be said.  You've heard from two
people at the University of Minnesota, myself and Danny Iacovou, who in
no way represent the official opinions or policies of the University of
Minnesota.  Neither of us could be classified as ``the sysadmin of
umn'' (we have bazillions of system administrators in different
departments around campus).  We're essentially just two interested
by-standers.
-- 
Jason Molenda, University of Minnesota, Supercomputer Inst., Technical Support
SGI Iris Admin        molenda@jason.msi.umn.edu       DoD #1867     '77 CB750F
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: Still not addressing the original points made, asshole
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 07:11:35 GMT

wirzeniu@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lars Wirzenius) writes:
>Serdar Argic, the schizophrenic AI program that talks with itself.

Why is everyone thinking some sort of AI is involved when natural
stupidity is more than adequate to account for it?  Think of it...
the morons backing Argic wrote a fairly decent Eliza type program
(nearly as detached from reality as Racter); or one weenie (or a group
of them) who's managed to type in a bunch of articles and got a
government grant to figure out how to grep or the equivalent, and
posts even when he greps something unrelated because he's either
really not very bright, or just doesn't care?  There was some guy on
alt.activism who basically did the same thing.  He had a bunch of
typed/scanned articles and instead of actually defending/attacking
something, which he wasn't very good at, he'd just repost the same
articles, or other ones if he had enough on the subject.

Certainly some of the answers seem a bit strange and detached, but
what do you expect?   Calling Serdar an AI would be quit a compliment.
-- 
If no one sees you eat it, it has no calories.
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: kbibb@maui.qualcomm.com (Ken Bibb)
Subject: Re: (Auto?)Canceller, stop it! (Re: Cancels)
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 20:08:48 GMT

In <BzxM4L.L46@mtholyoke.edu> jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz) writes:

>In article <1992Dec27.165426.27597@ennews.eas.asu.edu> sridhar@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (Sridhar Venkataraman ) writes:
>>Works for rn. I was waiting to test the following line in the killfile
>>when I noticed that nothing got killed because someone else seems
>>to be doing a cancel for everyone of us!

>Uh huh... something I don't appreciate in the least, because I was looking
>forward to Argyc's (sic) response to Josh Smith's jibberish article.

>Damn it, canceller, whoever you are, stop it.  Robot or no robot,
>appropriate or not appropriate, this isn't the answer.  Who gives you
>the right to decide what *I* want to/should read?  When I'm sick of
>even seeing the flood of Argyc robot-posts I'll use my own kill-file,
>thank you.  In the meantime know that I think no better of you than
>of the person behind the Argyc robot... 

I think you have me to thank for that :-/  I complained to
postmaster@anatolia.mn.org that the posts were inappropriate for
news.admin.policy and he said that he would remove them.

-- 
Ken Bibb                "he heard the snow falling faintly through the
kbibb@qualcomm.com	 universe and faintly falling, like the descent of
jester@crash.cts.com     their last end, upon all the living and the dead."
				--"The Dead", James Joyce

Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: A R G I C  allows itself  far too much
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 02:49:15 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.200548.75099@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF) writes:

>2. 99.99% of these postings are _g_e_n_e_r_a_t_e_d_ with no human influence:
>   some program scans the mail for references to Turqey, Armaenia, genocyde,
>   the dear Argiq entity itself etc. and then creates "answers" using the
>   once-and-forever-set scheme:

I doubt this.  I have had "Turkey" in my Organization line for well
over a week and seen no response whatsoever.  I will probably put it
in my .signature next.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: erodrigu@dcc.uchile.cl (Eduardo Rodriguez)
Subject: Re: Canceling other people's postings
Originator: erodrigu@tolten
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:15:51 GMT
Organization: Universidad de Chile, Depto. de Ciencias de la Computacion


In article <1992Dec22.154522.10510@midway.uchicago.edu>, elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher) writes:
> In article <ByuG25.A5v@mtholyoke.edu> jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz) writes:
> >... I stated that the only time that it's appropriate for
> >a third party to cancel a post is in the case of a moderator canceling
> >unapproved articles to his/her group.
> 
> Or, perhaps, someone helping the moderator do that.  I've canceled a
> clearly inappropriate article forged to news.announce.important, and
> no one except the perpetrator seemed to object.
> --

Of course, if you cancell it, nobody could read it, nor object it :-)
(sorry, couldn't resist!)

edo..
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: jbm@hal.trl.OZ.AU (Jacques Guy)
Subject: Re: Yeah! Argic has called!
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:58:54 GMT

exile@mediaone.freeside.com (Exile in Paradise) writes:

>let's see if he gets this, and apologies to all for using bandwidth to 
>intentionally bait him some more. A few questions: why hasn't anyone at 
>anatolia or uunet done anything about him? 

When I tune in to soc.culture.europe, it's full of Argic postings --
about 50 to 80%, day in, day out. When I tune in to soc.history,
soc.culture.greek, etc., it's full of people complaining about
the infamous Serdar Argic, formerly Hasan Mutlu, but I do not see
one single posting by him. However, if I enter those groups using
the "G" command (I use nn), the Good Turk's pearls of wisdom pop
up, like by ... m'Argic. The only rational explanation I can think
of is that I get those groups via a different path than soc.culture.europe
(and this group), and that, somewhere along that path someone has
implemented a mArgic Turk killer.
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: sridhar@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (Sridhar Venkataraman )
Subject: Re: etiquette
Organization: ASU, Valley of the Sun(s), AZ
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 20:08:53 GMT

hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman) writes:

I am not sure whether it is true that zuma is somewhere in the Eastern
timezone and anatolia is in the Central timezone. Atleast that is what
the Date header reflects but then it can be forged.

)However, from a previous posting I gather that even if MN.ORG
)cut anatolia off, there is still a UUnet connection...

Anatolia now gets email for "free" (right?) aside from the domain
registration charge. If it has to download email from UUnet it is a toll
call. It would be interesting to know what develops if MN.ORG cuts off
anatolia. 

Sridhar.
--
Sridhar Venkataraman			sridhar@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: molenda@msi-i1.msi.umn.edu (Jason Molenda)
Subject: Re: A R G I C allows itself far too much
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 20:46:26 GMT

pv02@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PETER VOROBIEFF) writes:

>Well, it turns out that at the level of infamous Anatolia POTZ_Master there
>is a gizmo that forwards all mail to /dev/null. 

I'll repeat again:  Please don't send mail bombs or even bother sending
gripes to anatolia.mn.org.  It is completely ignored by the person
running the system and it only causes further problems for the people
who are running the mn.org stuff.

This method, alas, is not an effective way to reach/annoy the people
running this thing.
-- 
Jason Molenda, University of Minnesota, Supercomputer Inst., Technical Support
SGI Iris Admin        molenda@jason.msi.umn.edu       DoD #1867     '77 CB750F
From: trsnyder@mcs.drexel.edu (Bob Snyder)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: A R G I C allows itself far too much
Date: 28 Dec 92 18:07:19 GMT
	<1992Dec24.132250.12357@refrig.dixie.com> <BzxMJI.LG4@mtholyoke.edu>
Organization: ASCI

In article <BzxMJI.LG4@mtholyoke.edu> jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz) writes:

   That would be "uunet".  The person behind the Argyc program is probably
   a paying customer of Uunet Corp., so there's nothing that can be done
   about it that way. Uunet /can't/ refuse service based on content...

Hmmmmmmmm.  Other "common carriers" like the phone company will end service
based on anti-social activities (like dialing every number in an exchange a la
WarGames); could the same arguement be used here?

Bob
From: wirzeniu@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lars Wirzenius)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: Still not addressing the original points made, asshole
Date: 29 Dec 92 01:36:40 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic) writes:
>Don't bother. The issue here is not my title. It is your total 
>irrelevance, and insistence on not understanding what the other 
>person is saying. Of course, I will agree that it is always easier 
>to insult the person, rather than address their points, but it 
>starts getting boring really fast.

Hey, I know what this is all about!  Our little wonder-program that knows
how to crosspost and redirect followups (yup, it did it again:
crossposted all over the place and folloups to soc.culture.turkey) IS
TALKING TO HIMSELF!

Just look at it!  Every single point it makes above exactly matches
itself.

Serdar Argic, the schizophrenic AI program that talks with itself.
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: clayh@uum1.mn.org (Clayton Haapala)
Subject: Re: A R G I C allows itself far too much
Organization: UNIX Users of Minnesota
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 23:14:36 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.180509.12126@news2.cis.umn.edu> molenda@msi-i1.msi.umn.edu (Jason Molenda) writes:
[...]
>The mn.org people are working on a shoestring budget and most of the
>people are doing the work in their spare time.  Please don't make it
>any harder on them than it is already; they're already aware of the
>problem and are doing everything they can at this point.
>
Well put, Jason.  Thanks!  I would also like to stress again, that the ~90
members of MN.Org are all independent sites, some businesses, some private
individuals and households.
-- 
Clayton Haapala (clayh@uum1.mn.org)
Mail Admin for MN.Org
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: A R G I C allows itself far too much
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 21:02:33 GMT

In article <root.725487038@maui> kbibb@maui.qualcomm.com (Ken Bibb) writes:

>In <BzxMJI.LG4@mtholyoke.edu> jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz) writes:
>
>>That would be "uunet".  The person behind the Argyc program is probably
>>a paying customer of Uunet Corp., so there's nothing that can be done
>>about it that way. Uunet /can't/ refuse service based on content...
>
>But can it refuse service because a *human* isn't behind the posts?

Who can prove that?  I don't believe it's true.  I'd lay money that
Argic's choice of messages to follow up is motivated by a similar kind
of pattern-scanning mechanism to Kibo's (i.e. find /usr/spool/news
-exec grep -i turk) but I think that someone actually attempts to
write at least some of the prose.

But besides that, why should it?  UUNET's job is to funnel news to and
from paying customers.  Why should it decline that service from
anatolia just because someone's put an automaton behind it?

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,soc.culture.greek,soc
Subject: Paul Pomes of UIUC.EDU in electronic harrassment business. NOT!
Date: 24 Dec 92 18:49:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-8298v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 


>Path: uupsi!psinntp!rpi!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!gateway
>From: postmaster@anatolia.mn.org
>Newsgroups: news.admin.policy
>Subject: Paul Pomes of UIUC.EDU in electronic harrassment business...
>Date: 23 Dec 1992 18:46:11 -0600
>Sender: daemon@cs.utexas.edu
>Message-ID: <m0n4gRe-0001TlC@kksys.kksys.mn.org>
>
>
>Will the officials of UIUC.EDU please take care of Paul Pomes
>who is misusing their computing facilities?

HA! This is a joke, right? !!! Real funny!

Anatolia.mn.org, the exclusive gateway of the #1 internet/usenet abuser,
the unstoppable, electronically unadressable M.U.T.L.U. / A.R.G.I.C,
the first-amendment beneficiary from the country where people
have no first amendment (or equivalent) rights[1], complaining about
misuse of computing facilities?

 Lighten up, Hasan/Serdar/Nameless Postmaster of Anatolia/whatever your
real name is. You play the game so well, you should not be afraid of the
competition. I assure you that neither Paul Pomes, nor D. Davidian, nor
Tri*, nor even Pol* will ever be able to inflict as much pain or as much
waste of hard disk space as you inflict upon us every single day.

Michael
(that's my real name, what is yours, "postmaster@anatolia.mn.org"?)

PS. I really like how you managed to copy the entire collection of your
rasist vernom to news.admin.policy. I have plenty of online storage,
give me all you got, pal. My NUL device can swallow even more.


[1]
<<In Turkish prisons, torture continues : The practice of
torture and other forms of grave maltreatment of persons detained
by the police, remains widespread in Turkey, affirmed Monday
the European Committee for the prevention of torture (CPT), an
organization set up by the European Council.
<<The torture and other forms of maltreatment are used by the
police "both against suspects of the common law and detainees
under the anti-terrorist lagislation", underlined the CPT in a
"Public declaration relative to Turkey".
<<This declaretion was made after three visits to Turkey by a CPT
delegation between Sep. 90 and end of Nov. 92.>> (LNQ)
                                                                                                                            
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy