HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jimd@ssd.intel.com (Jim DePorter)
Subject: Re: AYSO and the destruction of american soccer
Organization: Supercomputer System Division, Intel
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 04:53:56 GMT

bjpc@engin.umich.edu (Brian Jeffrey Cook) writes:

>i saw some information posted about american youth soccer.
>well i thought i would throw in my two cents.

>many leagues have subscribed to the AYSO way of thinking.
>everybody plays an equal amount, no matter how good the player is.
>this defeats the beauty of competition.  kids do not have ambition
>to get better cause they know that AYSO is going to get them
>nowhere.

The other side of the coin is the team that only plays to win, starts
the same 11 every game and the kids on the bench get very little 
playing time. Let's face it, sitting on the bench is almost punishment,
kids should be in soccer for the fun and if that leads to competitive
play then great! (* Have unruly kids at practice? Make them sit out
while the other kids play, they soon get the idea... *) 
  I've only seen one coach that made sure everyone got equal playing
time. He would have a sheet telling exactly when each player would be
in the game, in 5 minute increments! He had a good team, but he really
never coached and kids learn a lot by watching a coaches strategy (who
marks up who, speed, ball control). 
 
>for america to get real soccer, we must throw out the AYSO system of
>thinking and get real players!!!!!!!

It's been said in this forum and I've heard it throughout the years that
the US kids are over coached and that the kids need to play without
someone yelling at them to pass, kick shoot or tackle. My daughters 
play their best games when the coach watches the game and lets the
players decide (Clive Charles). 
 What the kids need are less competitive coaches and parents and the
ability to go out and play their best without criticism.

>just my thoughts.....bjpc

jimd

PS My daughters have been trying out for ODP for years. Kathryn has 
   made it the last two years. I got word last week that both Kathryn
   and Karen will be on the same U15(1/2) ODP team this year. Now if I
   can only afford to support their fun!
-- 

			In theory, there is no difference between theory
			and practice.  But, in practice, there is.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: MOORES@BNR.CA (Richard Moores)
Subject: WC Games Tie-Break Soltion
Followup-To: rec.sport.soccer
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:15:58 GMT

IMHO the best solution I have ever heard for the breaking of ties in the
world cup was "suprisingly", (based on the fact that I am a "don't mess
with the rules  Brit" on most Footy issues :-) ), based upon a North
American approach.

Most sports here are decided by "sudden death overtime" (First to score
wins, for those unfamiliar with the term), but FIFA has always argued that
the safety risks of keeping players on the field indefinately preclude the
adoption of this method of deciding drawn World Cup matches.

It was suggested to me that the solution to this problem was also to be
found in N.America, where in many soccer leagues unlimited substitutions
are permitted, (in my experience anyway). The idea is this...

During normal time, the rules on substitutions remain the same (only 2 from
the 5 permitted to sit on the bench), but in the event of a drawn game
Extra Time is added as it is now with 15 min "halves" but that it is not
limited to just 2 halves. The teams play these 15 minute periods untill
someone scores (just like Ice Hockey). During these periods of "overtime"
the rule on substitutions changes and there is no limit on how many
substitutions can be made, and all of the 5 benched players can be used.
Therefore the risk of exhaustion is pre-empted by the rotation of players
on and off the field (Again just like ice hockey).

To me this solution was far and away the best idea I had heard regarding
improvements to the "penalty shoot out" issue, and I believe would make for
a far more exciting and fairer way of deciding the winner. No longer would
teams be able to sit back and defend en masse to take their chances on
penalties. Ultimately, I believe, the best team WOULD win.

What do you think???

Richard Moores - Koppite In Exile                     
Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada.  
MOORES@BNR.CA                            
FAX:(613) 763-7283 Phone:(613) 763-4687 
My opinions, not BNR's   


Liverpool Football Club
THE most succesfull English Club
of all time...just check the facts
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: Chelsea FA Cup Round 3 Score?
From: cctr123@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Alan Murray, CSC Operations, Uni of Canty)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:13:41 GMT
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand

In article <1993Jan11.022237.15418@leland.Stanford.EDU>, boltyboy@leland.Stanford.EDU (Matthew Holt) writes:
> In all the recent lists I seem to have missed the Chelsea
> 3rd round score....can someone please post it and put me
> out of my misery

The game was postponed due to bad pitch conditions. From memory it is now
scheduled for January 13.

Cheers
Alan
From: math1pu@jane.uh.edu (Douglas Luo)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: I've got an idea !!!
Date: 5 Jan 1993 15:24 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <9301052121.AA05893@deepthought.cs.utexas.edu>, SM21128@ARIZVM1.ccit.arizona.edu (Curly Howard) writes...
>Attention everyone !!!
> 
>I've got an idea !!!
> 
>There are several servers on the net (like "Mud", "IRC", "Chess" etc) where
>everyone can telnet to and talk (IN REAL TIME) with others telnetted to the
>server.
> 
>So, if several football lovers like us telnet to one of those servers at the
>same time, we will be able to have a good real time football talk, which will
>be, I guess, much more interesting than just replying to each other's messages
>in "rec.sport.soccer".
> 
>Also, imagine a situation: some kind soul in Europe watches an interesting
>game (like EuroCups quarterfinal, for example) on TV. He wants to help us, poor
>European-Americans and American-Americans, who have no access to football on TV
>in the US... We all (the kind soul and the poor us) get to the server... and he
>tells us what's going on... what a nice live report !!!
> 
>Well, guys, think about this opportunity. We can make our lives more interes-
>ting... as for me, I am just dying to have a good real time talk with other
>football fans !
> 
>                                           Curly Howard.

This might work, guys!

Doug

SOMETIMES I THINK I LEARN MORE IF I CLOSE ALL MY BOOKS.
From: mcsbc2gw@dct.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Why?
Date: 8 Jan 93 11:21:21 GMT
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology

Hi,
Graeme (Big G, Gazza, Wright, Grayso) here
I am looking to confer with Villa/ Forest fans who are having
differing season in the new premeir league.

If I remember rightly, my club, Dundee United F.C.
struggled badly during the first season we had a Premeir up here in Scotland
but we launched ourselves and won the league cup within two years.
The season before we had last we had also lost a cup final.

We avoided relegation by the skin of our teeth and sent Dundee crashing
to where they have never recovered.

We to had a manager who established us in the top flight(shades of
Kerr and Taylor) and put us further(atkinson, mclean?) in touch in
terms of competition. 

The ground has a Shed end atmosphere(Holte End) and heaving in the
new stand brought more vocal support for the team.

Forest v Villa FA Cup Final
Dundee v United Scots Cup FInal

As I said before I am an Arab and we have given both clubs our best players
in the last few years........ Andy Gray, Ray McKinnon, anyone fancy Fergie???
(Not Duchess of York Style!!)

Arab
---------------------------------------------------
Here goes 7 in a Row!!!!
---------------------------------------------------
This time to win and be mighty
This time to drivel a load of shite
This time to crack a few heads
and to become the side in the land
---------------------------------------------------
From: cbas38@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Scottish Results 2nd January 1993
Date: 5 Jan 93 11:20:31 GMT
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster

Scottish Results 2nd Jan 1993
=============================

Premier Division
----------------

Aberdeen 0		Dundee 0

Airdrie 0 		Falkirk 1
			(Duffy)

Dundee Utd 1		St Johnstone 2
(Crabbe)		(Davies, wright)

Hibs     0		Hearts 0

Partick Th  0		Motherwell 1
			(Martin)

Rangers   1		Celtic  0
(Steven)



1st Div					2nd Div
------					-------

Ayr Utd 0  Kilmarnock 1			Alloa  0  East Fife 2
Clydebank 3 Dumbarton 1			Arbroath 2 Forfar 3
Dunfermline 0 Raith 0			Berwick 1  Stenhousemuir 1
Morton 1  St Mirren 1			Clyde 5  East Stirling 1
Stirling 0 Hamilton 0			Montrose 0 Brechin 2
					Queen of South 2 Stranraer 0
					Queens Park 1 Albion Rovers 0


Results from 26th December 1992
-------------------------------

Premier Division

Dundee 1 Rangers 3
Celtic 0 Dundee Utd 1
Motherwell 0 Aberdeen 2
Hearts 1 Partick 1
Falkirk 3 Hibs 3
St Johnstone 1 Airdrie 0

 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                                       +
Sandy Mackinnon,                       + 
At the Cutting Edge of Fuel Science,   + 
University of Strathclyde,             +      cbas38@vaxa.strath.ac.uk 
Glasgow,                               + 
Scotland.                              +  
	  	                       +
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: PKARLIOT%KNOX.BITNET@UICVM.UIC.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: Just another example of the 'fabulous' Eng
Date: 5 Jan 1993 23:56:00 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

      Only in your dreams will you see Liverpool in another division pal!!!!!!
And that goes to everyone who happens to fancy any thoughts of seeing Liverpool
in another division.
      Now about this season, well Manchester United hasn't won a championship in
   25 years...isn't that something?
      I only wished Bob Paisely had stayed in Anfield; maybe the rest of the
Premier League would really shut up!!!!
      GO LIVERPOOL!!!!!!
                                                             Panos
From: chris@wg.estec.esa.nl (Milquetoast)
Subject: Re: The Great AC Milan!
Reply-To: chris@wg.estec.esa.nl
Organization: WG/Estec, Noordwijk, The Netherlands
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 12:51:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan08.000651.56112@watson.ibm.com>, yonas@ynsakgn.ibm.com ()
writes:

> What is Milan upto? The last time I was following Milan was 84-86 seasons.
> Gullit and Van Basten were great players. Where are this players now?

They're still there. Milan have at least 5 foreign players (Gullit and Van
Basten, plus Rijkaard, Papin and another Frenchman I think) and can only play
3 of them. This has meant Gullit not playing until the last couple of matches.
Van Basten is out for the next month or so after an operation.

Rumours (in yesterday's UK papers) were that Gullit may be going back to Ajax
at the end of the season as part of a deal that would bring Denis Bergkamp to
Milan.

Regards,


Chris
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Rouch                                              chris@wg.estec.esa.nl
Serco Space Ltd                                            Tel: +31 1719 84672
ESTEC, The Netherlands                                     Fax: +31 1719 84192
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The only time you get homesick is when you get home
From: clgs11@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: Celtic are away
Date: 8 Jan 93 13:32:51 GMT
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster

In article <1993Jan8.112650.2693@dct.ac.uk>, mcsbc2gw@dct.ac.uk writes:
> All Celtic fans whose pusses were closing and then opened are now
> well and truley shut after losing to Hertz, Uni-ted, and Hunz
> in 1-0 defeats. They no longer own their ground, their liabilities are
> twice the size of their assests, Parkheid is rumbling, the word
> Cassidy has been banned in  the jungle, The Bank wants money in interest
> Rangers are streets ahead, christ United are streets ahead of them in technique
> and talent.
> God, they can't even beat Aberdeen or Dundee!!!!!
> 
> Lets face it 25 years ago is just that, a memory.
> Celtic are crap, the team has no heart and McAvennie will be shite
> He is 32 now!!!
> Bonner, Boyd, Marshall, Mowbray, Gillespie, Whyte(left), McStay, Collins
> , Miller, Coyne, Fulton, and Brady are all crap, old, ageing, unfit,
> well-paid pro con-men!!!
> 
> On their tombstone writeth, 
> 
> Here lies Celtic F.C. - R.I.P.
> 

And of course the rest of Scottish Football is in great condition,with nothing
but sunny days ahead. !!!!!!!!!!!!

25 years ago is just a memory, true. But no one else can say they were FIRST !!

In The End 

A.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: ccadeff@sunvis2.vislab.olemiss.edu (Sergio Adeff)
Subject: Re: QUESTION: List of Intercontinental (Europe-S.America) Club Finals?
Keywords: Intercontinental Club Finals
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:35:56 GMT


Sorry the text was lost. I intended to ask somebody to please give a history
of the Intercontinental (Europe-S.America) Club Finals.  Clubs, games, locations
nationalities, results, anecdotes, etc.  These stand as "moral" world-club
champions and runner-upps (a second collection of European & South-American
encounters.)



-- 
-- Sergio E. Adeff, Ph.D., Professor of Engineering & Supercomputer Consultant  
-- The University of Mississippi      Phone: 601-232-7206    FAX: 601-232-7180
-- 107 Powers Hall                    Internet: ccAdeff@Crayx.MCSR.OleMiss.Edu 
-- University, MS 38677, U.S.A.       ________________________________________
From: mcsdc1eh@dct.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Scots cup results(important)
Date: 11 Jan 93 10:57:04 GMT
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology




Important scottish cup results:

   motherwell 0-2 rangers
   clyde      o-o celtic
   aberdeen   4-1 hamilton
   hearts     6-0 huntly
   hibs       5-2 st mirren
   partick    0-1 cowdenbeath
st johnstone  6-0 forfar
   dundee utd 3-1 meadowbank
   dundee     2-0 dumbarton
   kilmarnock 5-0 raith

The only real shock of the day was cowdenbeaths beating ok partick,my namesake
scoring with a penalty at the start of the second half.Apart from that killie
shocked a few with their hammering of raith,but this was an untrue result as
raith were playing with ten men asnd a replacement keeper.

   Rangers were comfortably through,as were all the other large teams,dundee
utd having the biggest scare after losing the opening goal to meadowbank.


   Euan "the perth saint"

Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: esp@meiko.co.uk 
Subject: Re: SOCCER NEWSGROUP
Reply-To: esp@meiko.co.uk
Organization: Meiko Ltd
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:41:59 GMT


In article 7637@fwi.uva.nl, bronstri@fwi.uva.nl (Mischa Bronstring) writes:
> motta@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nazare Motta) writes:
> 
> >Hey guys,
> >Does anybody there is interested in spliting this newsgroup in two? 
> >Something like "Rec.soccer.England" and "Rec.soccer.rest of the world"?

Great idea!

We could call the English newsgroup "Rec.football" and the other "Rec.pretenders"!!

The English game is still the most entertaining, I don't care what anyone says!

Steve

You'll never beat The Gas - A message to any Bristol City fans out there!

Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: psima01@convex.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Maisack)
Subject: Re: SUGGESTION FOR WORLD CUP GAMES ENDING IN TIES
Organization: Comp. Center (ZDV) U of Tuebingen, FRG
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:46:28 GMT

In <C0oys4.DKL@imag.fr> girault@imag.fr (Alain Girault) writes:

>In article <1993Jan9.014529.21612@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> rgj0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (RICHARD G. JOHNSTON) writes:
>>The penalty kick procedure used to end tie games during the World Cup is, in
>>my opinion, a poor solution to the problem. Here is my alternative to breaking
>>ties. At the end of regulation make both sides play with only nine players for
>>some period of time, maybe 10 minutes. If the game is still tied 1 more player
>>would be pulled from each side every five or ten minutes. With such an
>>approach at least the game would be determined on the field. Anyone who has
>>played soccer realizes fewer players on the same size pitch opens up the game.
>>Previous World Cup had too many teams trying to play to play to a scoreless 
>>tie in order to take their chances with penalty kicks. Any other alterantives?

>Yes: sudden death right after the normal time; actually this exists in some 
>sports like water-polo.

>Alain.


>-- 

>Alain GIRAULT

>Laboratoire de Genie Informatique

that would have cost us such classics at Germany-Italy in 1970
(Germany wins 2:1) and France-germany in 1982 (France wins 2-1).
it might have spared us a lot more boring games, though.

Michael
From: hamlet@stein.u.washington.edu (Mitch McGowan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: WC Results Request
Date: 11 Jan 1993 17:52:38 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu
Summary: help with wc results

If anyone has the results of the following World Cup
qualifying matches, would you mind e-mailing them to me?
I'd appreciate it.  Thanks.

16/12/92	Holland vs. Turkey
13/12/92        Honduras vs. Mexico
13/12/92        Costa Rica vs. St.Vincent
06/12/92	Canada vs. Bermuda
20/12/92        Guinea vs. Kenya 
10/01/93	Liberia vs. Swaziland

Thanks again.

--
To carry on an argument when you are yourself only a hesitating enquirer
is a dangerous and slippery thing. - Plato
Mitch McGowan a.k.a.    | KALAMAZOO WINGS  | MINNESOTA NORTH STARS |
hamlet@u.washington.edu | ST. KILDA SAINTS | TORONTO BLUE JAYS     |
From: JZeevi%users%swri03@D26VS046A.CCF.SwRI.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Comments on my comment.
Date: 11 Jan 1993 12:31:42 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


Martin,

	I guess no one wants to excuse the ranting, as I indicated in the
post.

	On another note, I think most languages support the concept of
relative scale. (X, more X, most X.) I was just tired of the mis-use of the
language, by what I thought was someone who knew better.

	And to think - not even a chuckle over "paramedics help dog bite
victim"

	Sigh.

	josef
	jzeevi@swri.edu
From: sean_murphy@quixote.wpd.sgi.com (Sean Murphy)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: S.F. Bay Blackhawks
Date: 8 Jan 93 05:14:16 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA

Has there been any word on the future of the San Francisco Bay Blackhawks?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: cbas38@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: BBC (was the EBC)
Date: 11 Jan 93 11:43:24 GMT
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster


My humblest apologies indeed to the EBC.  On Saturday's Grandstand, they 
managed to show almost 15 minutes worth of Scottish football. Well done chaps
although a reprimand for Gary Lineker saying that the best thing for Scottish
fitba' would be if Motherwell were to knock Rangers out of the Scottish Cup.
Really ?   It's not our fault the rest are crap and are lagging miles behind.
Never again will I use the word "EBC".

PS We dont really want that plonker David Mellor as a Rnagers fan as he
admitted on Radio 5.

 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                                       +
Sandy Mackinnon,                       + 
At the Cutting Edge of Fuel Science,   + 
University of Strathclyde,             +      cbas38@vaxa.strath.ac.uk 
Glasgow,                               + 
Scotland.                              +  
	  	                       +
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"I'm glad to be back at one of the biggest clubs in Europe"
-Frank McAvennie on rejoining Celtic.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
From: esp@meiko.co.uk 
Subject: Why Liverpool????
Reply-To: esp@meiko.co.uk
Organization: Meiko Ltd
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 11:36:29 GMT



 
Shame on you lot!!!

Don't get me wrong I've nothing against the supporters of the Liverpools, Man U's and Leeds of this World.... as long as they live in or around Liverpool, Manchester or Leeds. But it's those who simply support these teams because... well they win a lot... they're big teams... they're in Europe... etc etc. They think they're special because they rarely have to face the possiblity of defeat. Pathetic!! They deserve no respect from any real football fan! I ask you, where's the passion? 

I just wish this lot would look over their shoulder and take a look at their local teams, OK the quality may not be too good, but to these teams and their supporters every game is about survival and the dream of one day being up there with the big boys.

One of the saddest moments in football in recent years was when Aldershot folded. That day a few thousand people in Aldershot had their hearts broken. I wonder if any of the Liverpool or Leeds fans living in Aldershot, who never bothered watching their local team because they were in the 4th division, (and where was the pride in that??), felt guilty, I hope so!!!!

Thing is, things are getting worse! We now have a guy in Scotland supporting AC Milan. What reason other than the fact that Milan are unbeaton in the past two seasons in Serie A would a guy support a team on the other side of the continent?

I wonder how long it will be before this lot start supporting Germany, instead of their own country,, because Germany has won the World Cup more times than most????? Same principle!!!!!!

I figure this may provoke some reaction....... Come on guys defend yourselves!!

Steve

Support Your LOCAL team!!!!
From: Dave.Alderson@newcastle.ac.uk (D. Alderson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Iam McFaul
Date: 8 Jan 93 11:20:29 GMT
Distribution: eunet
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK NE1 7RU



>Hold on there... an error in my book, perhaps?  Wasn't that Iam, not Ian,
>McFaul, the Newcastle United goalkeeper?  Damn memory's on the blink!  But
>I do remember someone had this rare name from some 20 years ago.

Yep, you're correct. It was Iam. I think it was short for William. He was
also know as Liam I believe. Any mags fans confirm this?
Crackin' goal though. Warms the cockles every time I see it on Match of the Day
F.A. cup specials.


=============================================================================== 
=  Dave.Alderson@newcastle.ac.uk    =    "He's red, he's white, he's fuckin'  = 
=  Univ. of Newcastle-upon Tyne.    =     dynamite, Johnny Kay, Johnny Kay..."= 
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer