HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: andyrose@netcom.com (San Francisco Fractal Factory)
Subject: Re: Q:problem with alt.binaries.pictures
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:01:57 GMT

Some news site administrators do not carry
a.p.binaries because it is so big.  Whether a group
is distributed to a site is under that site's
administrators's control.  See him/her/(it).


-- 
Andrew Rose andyrose@netcom.com FAX 4155537756 When peace rules the planet 
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
From: syawanar@cc.curtin.edu.au
Subject: Simple 3D source code needed.
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 10:09:16 GMT

I am looking for some C source code (to run on an IBM AT) that will
allow me to:

Create 3D images (simples images are enough) in a 3D world.
Manuever around in the 3D world and thus view the objects
from various points of view and angles. 
Ray tracing is not needed, and neither is shading. Hidden line/surface
removal would be nice.

Is this available?

If this is not available, how would I be able to write it in C?
(We can forget about hidden line/surface removal if this is the case).

Can anyone help? 

+---------------------------------------------------------------+
|Naveen Yawanarajah \ Internet :    syawanar@cc.curtin.edu.au   |
|                    \ Fidonet :    3:690/613                   |
| If I am guilty      \ Snail  :    4 Woonan Pl., KARAWARA 6152 |
|         I will pay.. \       :    PERTH, WESTERN AUSTRALIA... |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
From: rcrolf@urc.tue.nl
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: Determination of SVGA-cards
Date: 14 Oct 92 11:10:47 GMT
Organization: Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands

Hello to all,

I'm looking for ASSEMBLER routines (for DOS) to determine
what type of SUPERVGA adaptor is present in the PC.

All help will be welcome !

Please EMAIL me directly because I'm not a subscriber to
this list.

THANX !!!

Rolf van Gelder.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
    #####     #####    -+- Rolf van Gelder -+-
   #   #     #        Computer Center -+- Technical University EINDHOVEN
  #####     # ###    Home address :
 # #   # # #   #    Binnenwiertzstraat 27     5615 HG  EINDHOVEN HOLLAND
#   #  #  #####    Internet: rcrolf@urc.tue.nl    Bitnet: rcrolf@heitue5
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kpm8447@tesla.njit.edu
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: Unreal location:REAM
Date: 14 Oct 92 12:13:59 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology

O.k., after a ton of mail (and relocating the files) I have the ftp
site address for the unreal demo

ftp.ulowell.edu


  msdos/Games/
(Ignore that line, I don't have a deleted key)

 msdos/Graphics/EuroDemos
  the file is unreal.zip and it is 1444921 bytes!

It is the winner of the Assembly '92 competition/party in Finaland (Finland)
or somehwere.  It is by far the best Euro-=demo out now.

-- 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Kirk Membry             ( * * * T H I S   S P A C E   F O R   R E N T * * * )

kpm8447@tesla.njit.edu                                    kpm8447@teak.njit.edu
kmembry@andromeda.rutgers.edu                             kpm8447@maple.njit.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: iceman@nic.cerf.net (David Cook)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: Point List To Bezier? Help?
Date: 8 Oct 92 13:45:50 GMT
Distribution: comp.graphics
Organization: CERFnet


I am seeking general information (preferably source code, FTP site or book 
reference) to the conversion of a POINT LIST (eg., a list of consecutive
points which make up an object) to a Bezier curve.

Any help would be appreciated...

In return for any help, I can provide an auto-vectorizer source code which
will take any raster and automatically convert it to above said point list.

Thanks:  Please email responses to:    iceman@cerf.net
From: eonu24@castle.ed.ac.uk (I Reid)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: Re: Seeking a pc utility to rotate big 2-colour bitmaps
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:59:30 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In response to a posting about rotating bitmaps using pbmplus;

>I have looked at the PC pbmplus kit, but it will not even run, complaining
>about not being in real mode on the 386.  This seems to be the latest 
>version of the kit.

Try commenting out emm386.exe and running it. That usually does the trick.

Iain
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
From: george@beta.ee.ufl.edu (George L)
Subject: Re: Issues of Computer Graphics
Organization: EE Dept at UF
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 19:02:26 GMT

In article <1980@acf5.NYU.EDU> checker@acf5.NYU.EDU (checker) writes:
>rsc@altair.csustan.edu (Steve Cunningham) writes:
>>Instead, we will "publish" an on-line
>>special (unnumbered) issue about that time that will appear on siggraph.org and
>>will be available by ftp and e-mail.  This experiment with online publication
>>will help fill the publication gap and should help us learn about the viability
>>of online publications.
>
>Do you plan on including diagrams and pictures in the issue, or simply
>text?  If the former, how?
>
>Chris
>
How about PostScript? Since this publication is oriented towards the graphics 
community, I think it would be safe to assume most of the audience will be 
familiar with that format. If someone doesn't already have a PostScript 
printer, display system, or previewer, they can get GhostScript via the net 
as well.

Just a suggestion,
george@alpha.ee.ufl.edu

Newsgroups: comp.graphics
From: henrik@stat.tamu.edu (Henrik Schmiediche)
Subject: Non-Convex Polygon Scan Conversion
Organization: Department of Statistics, TAMU
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 21:58:47 GMT

      Hi,

I am looking for polygon scan conversion algorithms. I have the code
for the convex and non-convex polyogan scan conversion in Graphics
Gems I and I have implemented them. I do have several questions though
and any help and pointers would be appreciated:

1) In Graphics Gems I, there is a section titled: "Fast Scan
   Conversion of Arbitrary Polygons", but it comes with no code. 
   Does anyone, have any code that implements this polygon scan
   conversion method? Since I am working on RISC architectures
   this is of interest to me. 

2) Does anyone know of a faster algorithm for non-convex polygons
   then the one described in Graphics Gems I in the section: 
   "Concave Polygon Scan Conversion" (by Paul S. Heckbert)? The
   routine would have to be coded in C, though assembler code for
   Sparc or IBM R6000 is of interest to me.

3) I am especially interested in the scan conversion for four
   sided polygons (non-convex). Does anyone know or have code
   or an algorithm for this special case?

4) Finally, does anyone know of a fast method for checking if
   a polygon is convex? I am especially interested in the
   4 sided polyogn case, though the n-sided case is also of
   interest. The idea behind this question, is that if I can
   test if a four sided polygon is convex (which the majority
   of my polyogns are), I can render them with a fast(er)
   convex polygon scan conversion algorithm and switch to the
   the slow(er) non-convex polygon scan conversion algorithm
   in case I have a non-convex polygon.

   I just realized that there has been a discussion on this
   question in comp.graphics. So there is no need to repeat the
   discussion and posts, but if anyone has any special ideas on 4
   sided polygons let me know.

Any help, suggestions, pointers, references, etc. (posted or emailed)
would be appreciated.

Thanks,

     - Henrik



--
Henrik Schmiediche, Dept. of Statistics, Texas A&M, College Station, TX 77843
E-mail: henrik@stat.tamu.edu  |  Tel: (409) 845-9447   |  Fax: (409) 845-3144
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Friday, 16 Oct 1992 14:47:12 MST
From: <ICEND@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: EPS Clip-Art

I am looking for an on-line service that has clip art, preferrably in .EPS
format.  I know that there is on service called On-line USA for the Mac.  Does
this service also have one for PC?  Does anyone have the number?  Thanks!
From: cmp0145@sys.uea.ac.uk (R. Hughes)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: Help on 3d terrain mapping?
Date: 9 Oct 92 12:15:18 GMT
Organization: UEA School of Information Systems, Norwich, UK.

Hi my name is Rob,
                  I am currently doing my third year computing project
on 3D terrain mapping and would be very grateful if somebody could give me
references to articles or scientific papers on this subject.
                      Thanks in advance
                            Rob Hughes
                      
            EMAIL ADDRESS cmp0145@uk.ac.uea.sys
From: frite@vlsi.polymtl.ca) (Michel Besner)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: Re: Converting epsf to tiff or gif
Keywords: epsf, gif, tiff
Date: 7 Oct 92 20:01:32 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal

In article <1992Oct6.172338.533@cine88.cineca.it> marcello@deis20.cineca.it (Marcello Dalpasso) writes:
>You can do it with the wonderful xv package (running in the XWindows environment)
>developed by John Bradley.
>
	Humm ... epsf to tiff or gif. I didn't think that it was possible :)
As a matter of fact xv CAN convert images to PostScript but not the opposite !

	The only way I know how to "convert" epsf to any other format is
to display it and then grab the window and save it GIF or whatever ...



--
			Michel Besner, eng
			Sacred Heart Hospital research center

"life is a big bowl of JELL-O  :) :) "
Newsgroups: comp.graphics,comp.graphics.visualization
From: dejesus@archimedes.nwc.navy.mil (Francisco X DeJesus)
Subject: Any ftp sites for Wavefront object models?
Organization: Science Applications International Corp.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 22:55:52 GMT

Title says it all. I'm looking for any sites where I can ftp object models
(or any other interesting stuff) for use on Wavefront (running on an Indigo).
While on the subject... any converters that can be used to import objects
from other modeling packages would also be useful. Thanks in advance...

-- 
Francisco X DeJesus  ----- S A I C -----  dejesus@archimedes.chinalake.navy.mil
disclaimer: "Opinions expressed here are mine. Typos and errors are all yours."
From: rkelley@hawk.etwork-a (Randy Kelley,hawk)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: Re: Book: Metamorphosis
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:50:11 GMT
Reply-To: rkelley@atc.boeing.com
Organization: Boeing Computer Services

In article 105028@siemens.siemens.com, liang@orion.siemens.com () writes:
>Hi,
>
>Does anyone know the status of this book "Metamorphosis"?
>Written or edited by Andrew Glassner.  I like to know whether it
>is published.  If yes, which publisher and ISBN ?  Thank!
>
>Cheng-Chung Liang

This may be the book your looking for:

An Introduction to Morphpological Image Processing
Edward R. Dougherty
SPIE (The International Society for Optical Engineering)
PO Box 10, Bellingham, WA 98227-0010, Phone 206-676-3290
Price: About $42 (US)

--
Randy Kelley                            Boeing Computer Services
Internet: rkelley@atc.boeing.com        Research & Technology,
uucp: ...!uw-beaver!bcsaic!rkelley      Computer Science Center,
Phone: 206-865-3438 FAX: 206-865-2964   Seattle, WA USA
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
From: decushma@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Dewayne Erne Cushman)
Subject: 387EMU with RTRACE
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:26:26 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

I was wondering if some kind soul could tell me how to get the EMU387
found in RTRACE's distribution ZIP to work. I don
t have the ability to print postscript at home and I can't access anyone else's
PS printer either.

General Question:  What is the best (Realistic) RT for the IBM 386/486 world andwhere is the best FTP site to find an RT that runs under X-windows but can be 
used with dos screen descriptions like POV or RTRACE's .SCN format.

Thanks,

Dewayne

decushma@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu

Newsgroups: comp.graphics,comp.graphics.visualization,alt.binaries.pictures
From: rthomson@mesa.dsd.es.com (Rich Thomson)
Subject: Re: Q:problem with alt.binaries.pictures 
Reply-To: rthomson@dsd.es.com (Rich Thomson)
Organization: Design Systems Division, Evans & Sutherland, SLC, UT
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 21:51:00 GMT

In article <AAfOKrgW13@lab2.phys.lgu.spb.su>
	dvj@lab2.phys.lgu.spb.su writes:
>Dear netters,
>I wonder if somebody can tell why there is a problem for  some netters
>to get pictures from conference alt.binaries.pictures.
>Best regards                           Vladimir.
>
>| Vladimir J. Dmitriev

Yes, the problem is that "alt.binaries.pictures" is no longer in
existence.  It was replaced by the group "alt.binaries.pictures.misc";
sending articles to a.b.p is likely to result in the problems you are
seeing.  Also, make sure you set the distribution to "world" to get
maximum propogation.

						-- Rich
-- 
	Repeal the personal income tax; vote Libertarian in 1992.
Disclaimer: I speak for myself, except as noted; Copyright 1992 Rich Thomson
UUCP: ...!uunet!dsd.es.com!rthomson			Rich Thomson
Internet: rthomson@dsd.es.com	IRC: _Rich_		PEXt Programmer
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
From: cybercub@milton.u.washington.edu (David Holland)
Subject: Short Review and Questions about Acecat Digitizer, etc.
Keywords: Digitizer Review Tablet Questions Drivers
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 07:35:13 GMT

I recieved my spiffy new Acecad Acecat digitizer tablet a couple of days
ago (ordered it from Elek-Tek, for $116 total - a great price for what it
does!) And this thing seems to be behaving admirably under it's Window's
drivers, and performs alright under "relative-positioning" Microsoft Mouse
emulation mode.  My question is this: does anybody out there know of drivers
for this thing that will work with Autodiesk Animator Pro?  It came with "ADI"
drivers, but these don't seem to do much of anything.  Hmm... is there a
treasure-trove of tablet/input device drivers hidden on the Net somewhere?
Also, does anybody know if the new hi-color/true color cards like the
Diamond Speedstar 24X have drivers for Autodesk Ani. Pro?  It's user interface
and the palette interface seem geared to be doing 24-bit color (with 0-255
range sliders for RGB values, etc...)   Any help or pointers to help would
be greatly appreciated!      (insert gratuitous ASCII smileys here)
 
               `-_-'           cybercub@u.washington.edu

Newsgroups: comp.graphics
From: jk87377@cc.tut.fi (Juhana Kouhia)
Subject: Re: Digital Darkroom
Keywords: source book
Organization: Tampere University of Technology
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 08:56:45 GMT


In article <1av0dhINNbhn@network.ucsd.edu> spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu
(Steve Lamont) writes:
>
>It's called popi and is available at all the usual ftp sites.
>ftp.uu.net, gatekeeper.dec.com, research.att.com, and
>wuarchive.wustl.edu, for instance.

I have also popi mailing list archive in nic.funet.fi:pub/
graphics/packages/popi/popi-mailing-list/.

(Graphics-directory is under reconstruction, sorry for the mess. :-)

Juhana Kouhia
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
From: hcostei@andy.bgsu.edu (Holli Costein)
Subject: DESKTOP
Keywords: DESKTOP
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 17:37:24 GMT


postnews

I am writing a research paper on desktop video, and I am unable to find
any information about the process of morphing.  I have looked in our
library and asked other sources.  However, they have been unable to
provide me with any substantial information. I would appreciate any
suggestions or information that anyone can offer.  Thank
you!HCOSTEI@ANDY.BGSU.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
From: "jason ang" <jason.ang@canrem.com>
Subject: targa-24 file format
Reply-To: "jason ang" <jason.ang@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: comp
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:34:41 EST

        Hi, I'm trying to make a program that can convert
between Targa-24 and 8-bit GIF files, but I don't know
the format of the TGA file.  Can anyone send me information
on this file format?  (I don't have any FTP privilages).
Thanks very much.

--
Jason Ang: Raytracing.Computer.Graphics.Computer.Music.Enthusiast
INTERNET: jason.ang@canrem.com / UUCP: canrem!jason.ang / FIDO: 1:229/15
"The hand that rocks the cradle is the hand that rules the world."
        -- From the movie 'The Hand That Rocks The Cradle'.
---
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
From: acc@asterix.inescn.pt (Antonio Costa)
Subject: RTrace for Macintosh
Keywords: Ray tracing
Organization: CG & CAD - INESC Norte
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 10:56:48 GMT

***** M A C  u s e r s *****

The MAC RTrace 1.0 version (beta) is available in directory
pub/RTrace/Macintosh at asterix.inescn.pt [192.35.246.17]
The code was made by me; Reid Judd (reid.judd@east.sun.com) and
Greg Ferrar (gregt@function.mps.ohio-state.edu) made the Mac port.

It is necessary to have Compact-Pro to extract the files...

Please feel free to get it and use it.
Hope you like it.

***** U N I X  and  D O S  u s e r s *****

A SUIT based graphical interface for RTrace is being developed.
I hope to release it soon...

Regards,
Antonio Costa.
.........................................................................
     O     O
    /     /                        I N E S C
   | O   |        Antonio Costa        | E-Mail   acc@asterix.inescn.pt
   | |\  |   O                         |          acc@basinger.inescn.pt
   | | \ |  /  O  Comp. Graphics & CAD | DECnet   inescn::a_costa
   | |  \| /  /                        | VAX-Mail +26802001576::a_costa
   | |  /  | |    Largo Mompilher 22   | UUCP     {mcvax,...}!...
   O | |-O | |    4100 Porto PORTUGAL  | Bell     +351+02+321006
    /   \ /   \
   O     O     O          "Let the good times roll..."
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
From: vivek gupta <vigupta@tope.cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Looking for...
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 21:50:05 -0500

Hi,

Someone had posted an article quite some time ago about something their professor had shown them using a light and different colored gel filters. They looked through a tube and could see a different color, then their eye perceived.

Well if anyone has this or the original poster, could please send me a copy. I wanted to send it to a friend.

Thanx.
Vivek
vigupta@greatwhite.cs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
From: paulf@halcyon.com (Paul Forgey)
Subject: Rayshade386 docs
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. (206) 455-3505
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 07:06:29 GMT

Help!  I took great pains to obtain RayShade386 via 2400bps modem, and
the docs are in both LaTeX and PostScript.  Neither of which I can use.
Short of paying up $50 at a copy place to have the PostScript output
printed, what can I do to get the docs in good, plain ASCII??

paulf@halcyon.com
From: jhpark@cs.utexas.edu (Jihun Park)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: Polygon Triangularization Algorithm
Date: 12 Oct 1992 23:00:41 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

I am looking for a triangularization algorithm which triangularizes any
complicated polygon(do not have a hole, no overlapping).
I believe that this algorithm appeared on a paper, but forgot the pointer.

The idea is drop a point inside a polygon, and find out any triangles by
drawing a line from the point to vertices of the polygon. If there are
any remaining polygons, then apply the same method recursively.

But the algorithm seems very complicated to code. I can not easily write
a good code to do the job. This problem seems very challenging.

I would appreciate if some one could donate a code. But a pointer is enough.

Thanks in advance.
---
Park
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
From: gregb@niwot.scd.ucar.edu (Greg Berman)
Subject: Re: <help> I'm looking for HIGH quality, 24-bit,  real-world images...
Organization: Scientific Computing Divison/NCAR Boulder, CO
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 05:43:37 GMT

I am currently using a gif-viewer called vgif.exe to look at weather maps
while in PC DOS.  I am not that thrilled with this viewer since the map
colors are not always the same.  The colors are quite pertinent when it
comes to viewing precipitation intensities.  I was able to ftp vgif
over to my login.  Does anyone know of any other gif-viewers for PC
DOS that might be more reliable when it comes to colors?  Even if the colors
transfer a bit skewed, if the package contains a way to change the colors,
that would also be ok.

Please send e-mail.  You may want to post the answer(s) in case others
have the same problem.

e-mail address:  gregb@niwot.ucar.edu

Much thanks for any assistance.
From: Renee.Teunissen@freudsys.nl.mugnet.org (Renee Teunissen)
Sender: Usenet@freudsys.nl.mugnet.org
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: Re: Public domain Raytracing programs
Date: 12 Oct 92  16:53:53 EST


Hi Mike, on 7 Oct 92  (about 1:06:59) yo wrote to All :

 MH> DKBTrace and POV run on just about any <= 16 bit machine.  It
yup. I run Pov and dkb on my 80286/287 based system.
 MH> was originally
 MH> written on an Amiga.  Runs on UNIX boxes, OS-9 machines, PC,
 MH> Mac, VMS boxes,
 MH> etc.  It's the most portable raytracer around.  D. Buck and the
 MH> POV team
 MH> deserve a pat on the back for their hard work keeping it
 MH> portable.

they sure do deserve this pat on there shoulder.

Regards,
 _
|_)
|\_enee.

 * Origin: freusys.nl.mugnet.org, a prive uucp gate at (27:4331/107.19)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics,sci.image.processing
From: psmith@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au (Paul Jeffrey Smith)
Subject: 3D Graphics HELP
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 05:45:14 GMT

O.K. I lost the guys e-mail address o.k. don't flame me yet.

Yo who ever you are, someone said something about having a bounding box
for each object and rotating that rather than all the points.

What I can't understand (and I have been going out of my mind trying to think of tha answer), is how the objects points are determined based on the bounding box.  

i thought of determining the x, y z change of the bounding box, then using them for each point, but then I thought of the fact that the closer the point is to the center, the less the difference is.

Please, someone point me in the right direction

regards

Paul Smith

-- 
Paul Smith
psmith@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au

"That sounds about right..." - Einstein
From: kpm8447@tesla.njit.edu
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: Unreal Demo!
Date: 13 Oct 92 13:00:24 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology

I just got a demo called "unreal" from Ultra Force or one of those
Sweden, Finland, whoever groups.  This is the most impressive graphics
demo for a 386 or 486.  My question is, how do they do it?  How do they
get the routines to redraw so fast?  They animate a world in 3-d and
fly by really quickly and it works!  Have any of these algorithms been
implemented into virtual reality or other such 3-d graphics oriented
programs?  Any info would be appreciated.
 - Thanks

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Kirk Membry             ( * * * T H I S   S P A C E   F O R   R E N T * * * )

kpm8447@tesla.njit.edu                                    kpm8447@teak.njit.edu
kmembry@andromeda.rutgers.edu                             kpm8447@maple.njit.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: comp.graphics,comp.graphics.animation,comp.realtime,comp.sys.ibm.pc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc