HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,alt.polyamory
Subject: Re: on a slightly different tact (Re: the "oh" experience)
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:09:14 GMT
Followup-To: soc.bi
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Aug19.174516.9877@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> strake@coos.dartmouth.edu (strake) writes:
+does anyone know of any examples of a living, loving, working group of people?
+To clarify that.  something like 4 people who are living together, have sex
+sometimes together sometimes with jsut one of the other people in the group,

The following is an old list (about a year old). I can not comment
on the bi/gay positivity of any these groups. (Although kriesta
'Congratulated' themselves by having  a couple of bi women, mighty
big of them).

Polyfidelitous Educational Productions
P.O. Box 6306
Captain Cook, HI 96704-6306
808-929-9691

Expanded Family Network
2124 Kittredge St #278-T
Berkeley, CA 94704
415-995-2607

IntiNet Resource Center
P.O. Box 2096
Mill Valley, CA 94942

Family Synergy
P.O. Box 2668
Culver City, CA 90231

Family Tree
P.O Box 315
Chestnut Hill, MA 02167

Kerista (aka the Utopian Philanthropists' Society)
543 Frederick Street
San Francisco, CA 94117
415-753-1314


Loving Alternatives
P.O. Box 10509
State Collage, PA 16805

Los Angeles Loving Community
P.O. Box 4822
Carson, CA 90749

Phoenix
257 North Wetherly Drive
Beverly Hills, CA 90211
213-275-3730

Potomac Area Lifestyles
P.O. Box 1494
Baltimore, MD 21203

Touchpoint
Network for the Nonmonogamous
27 Music Square E., #169
Nashville, TN 37203




-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu
From: kdc5072@CS.RIT.EDU (Kevin D Colagio)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Bisexuality and DEC PDP's... is there a link?
Date: 13 Aug 92 03:38:26 GMT
Followup-To: soc.bi
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology, Rochester, NY

And yet another article....sigh...

Jeff Epler writes:
->
->Elf Sternberg says:
->
->>Mark Kaepplein typed:
->>
->>>Hmmm. I had PDP-10 experiences at 14, APL at 15, and started working for
->>>DEC writing macro on 10s/20s at 16. I didn't feel too young to be doing
->>>such things, and my parents accepted it ok. I never thought of it as
->>>child abuse. Should I seek a support group?
->>
->>   Oh - my - God.
->>
->>   I had PDP-11 experiences at 13, RSTS/E-11 by the time I was 15, and
->>wrote MACRO-11 I/O subroutines for DEC when I was 16.  By the time I
->>had graduated from high-school, I'd added a game to the RSTS/E basic
->>pac and been immortalized in documentation for the I/O routines.
->
->I suspect that it's just this sort of person who's likely to end up on
->the net... (Besides, look at me -- I never used a DEC anything.. Just a
->Vic-20...)
->
hmmm...I started with a Commodore PET in 5th grade...that would be...(grab
calculator...)...at age 11.....WOW!...hmmm...

can we say "built in tape drive?"  Sure we can!
can we say "basic?"  Sure we can!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|                                                                |
|   Kevin Colagio         I happen to like    My other computer  |
|        aka              me the way I am!   is a Commodore 64C. |
| kdc5072@cs.rit.edu            huh?            yeah,  right!    |
|                                                                |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: sara@blkhole.resun.com (Organization: News Addicts)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: hot bi babes
Date: 23 Aug 92 10:35:25 GMT
Organization: Research Unlimited

In article <1992Aug14.234330.28719@midway.uchicago.edu> pmm7@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <10296@scott.ed.ac.uk> bethan@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Bethan Davies) writes:
>><snicker> 
>>With the ex-SO its fine as long as I don't
>>_talk_ about it, and behave like the het female he thought I was (ha!).
>>This probably involves not wearing lycra and Doc Martens - Fat Chance!
>
>doc martens, yeah, but...
>straight women don't wear lycra?!?!?!?!?!
><peg stops to think>
>does this mean that all the women i see wearing lycra 
>are queers?!?!?!?! <note the evil light in peg's eyes...>

Doc Martens *NO*!  There are a Whole Lot of Women in Edinburgh going
around in Doc Martens (leastways, there were three weeks ago ...); am
I then to take it that they are *all* *queer*????  Yowza!  (Note the
evil light in Sara's eyes ...)
From: dente@els.ee.man.ac.uk (Colin Dente)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Appreciate Me Now and Avoid the Rush!
Date: 18 Aug 92 08:58:47 GMT
Reply-To: dente@els.ee.man.ac.uk (Colin Dente)
Organization: Department of Electrical Engineering, University of Manchester

In article <AAG.92Aug17171816@artemis.aber.ac.uk>, aag@aber.ac.uk (Angela Gilham) writes:
|> Well, for those on this group who know me, either in the flesh
|> (Tanaqui and Peter can stop grinning like that, for a start) or
|> merely electronically, this is a sad time.

Indeed it is - I've appreciated you ever since I first knew you (so that's at
least 3 months now :-)).  Bog vampyres are definitely a Good Thing.  I do hope
that this one hasn't changed its mind about what it's going to do with part of
its graduate loan...

|> The real world, and a real job paying real money beckons 

Heh!  A bourgeois, capitalist bog vampyre...  Do you need a toy boy?  (Well,
a toy man - I think our ages are rather too close for me to be your "boy").

|> Hugs to all
Get ready for (as Bethan would say) "Death by hugging"...

Colin

-- 
  Colin Dente                     | JANET: dente@uk.ac.manchester
  Manchester Computing Centre     | ARPA:  dente@manchester.ac.uk
  University of Manchester, UK    | UUCP:  ...!mcsun!ukc!manchester!dente
   ... Blatantly Bisexual ...     | B3/4 f+ c g+(+) k(+) r s
From: jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: the "oh" experience
Date: 19 Aug 92 04:13:51 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Aug18.230422.87@cbnews.cb.att.com> eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (eleanor.j.evans) writes:
+I was mumbling something about not having a boyfriend and a girlfriend
+(dreadful words, aren't they?  manfriend and womanfriend sound even
+worse) at the same time, when he said "if you're bisexual, you really
+need one of each to be fully satisfied, don't you?"  We then spent
+a lot of time talkig about his (typical, by all the men I've ever talked
+to on the subject) experiences with same-sex fooling around.

It seems that one need not have both genders in an active
relationship to be bisexual. The general theme does require some
attraction for both genders. The self-identification method is 'if I
think I'm bi, then I am'. Now whether you get you card is  political
issue.
-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: the "oh" experience
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 07:16:09 GMT

The following was recently posted to soc.motss in an amusing thread
called `the "oh" experience', and has enough bi relevance to warrant
my posting it over here.  I have the author's encouragement in doing
so. :-)

In article <1992Aug12.213013.596@slcs.slb.com> gak@slcs.slb.com (Glenn Kramer) writes:
>In article <1992Aug10.185326.5525@csrd.uiuc.edu> hsu@sp24.csrd.uiuc.edu (William Tsun-Yuk Hsu) writes:
>>I was walking around town awhile ago with my friend Pierre and ran into
>>the father of a mutual friend. The father, who knew that Pierre is gay
>>and from Belgium, was trying to describe us later. "Oh I ran into your 
>>friends Pierre and Bill. They're two of the oddest people I've seen. Is
>>Bill, ummm, ummm..."
>>
>>He was told: "yes, Bill is Belgian too."
>
>I was once talking with friends in what I thought was an all-gay
>household, and made the incorrect assumption about one of the
>occupants (I think I asked him whether he went to the Pride parade
>that year). One of the other members of the household said, "Bill is
>not a Catholic," which I immediately understood.
>
>Later that evening, someone mentioned a mutual acquaintance. At the
>time, he had a girlfrend, which surprised my friends, who thought he
>was exclusively gay. I corrected their impression by saying, "He's not
>a Catholic, he's Protestant." They understood immediately.
>
>-- 
>Glenn A. Kramer
>Schlumberger Laboratory for Computer Science
>PO Box 200015
>Austin, TX 78720-0015                                        gak@slcs.slb.com


-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Bisexual just means you pay for it."
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Rock Hudson
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: And the saga continues
From: pclary@radish.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 22:30:24 GMT
Distribution: soc.bi
Organization: Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, CA - aka Barnum & Bailey

cjohnson@zeus.calpoly.edu (Coe Salzgeber) wrote...
>It would be such trauma!  <hehe> my mind is starting to sound like some weird
>hippy California blues: "everyone's gone now... the party is done...  the 
>hot tub is lonesome... six is better than one..."  Although it is an
>interesting way to write a thesis: "Hmmmm, don't quite know how to word
>that section... think i'll go sit in the hot tub and ponder...." :^)

Hphff!
Just for that I'm not going to ntalk to you anymore about what 
constellations to look for when you're sitting in the aformentioned
hot tub, while I'm elsewhere in the state trying to get some work done.
(Now that all of our wonderfully distracting guests have gone for a 
little while.)

Sara will be coming back to the UK a few shades darker than she
started out.

Ellen
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: rhialto@falu.sneakernet (Olaf Seibert)
Subject: Re: More on this newsgroup
Originator: rhialto@erato
Reply-To: rhialto@cs.kun.nl
X-Date: 29 Jun 92 01:11:43 MET DST
Organization: Intraveneous News Addicts
X-Newsreader: Ann 0.8m
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 12:48:47 GMT

This is being old... has been residing in my outqueue too long, but...
Date: 29 Jun 92 01:11:43 MET DST

In article <1992Jun24.163152.4782@dsg.cs.tcd.ie>,
	cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
|In <01GLKJ93UMI8000FXH@addvax.llnl.gov>
|HOLMES@VAXT.LLNL.GOV ("HOLMES@VAXT.LLNL.GOV") writes:
|
|>what surprises me is, how can some of you be so damn happy
|>all the time.
|
|There are two reasons why my posts are usually not filled with despair:
|
|	1 I don't have a computer and modem at home; if I did then I
|	  might be tempted to first thing in the morning. That would
|	  _not_ be pleasant.

I don't have either, and that doesn't stop me from posting from this
".sneakernet" site... and I think the world has seen the result once or
twice.

On the other hand, posting one article usually leads to posting another,
this way, but it's too late now to start about Roze Zaterdag (Pink
Saturday) in Zoetermeer.

--
___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert      B4f+-t-w--g+k+(+)svmrp+  rhialto@cs.kun.nl
\X/ How can you be so stupid if you're identical to me? -Robert Silverberg
-- 
___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert      B4f+-t-w--g+k+(+)svmrp+  rhialto@cs.kun.nl
\X/   It'sneveragoodideatoarriveinthepastwithyourpantsaroundyourknees -Sam
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Introduction
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 00:23:00 GMT

In article <44dpbn6f@cck.coventry.ac.uk> idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>Tim and Ciaran and Olaf and Sara and Ellen and Graham - I guess we're
>regular enough

I dunno, I'm pretty erratic at the moment.  Too many bhattoras for
lunch every day from Soloman's Mine - dunno why I go there so often.
Actually, I do - it's because the place is a lesbian co-op, and one
of the girls there keeps trying to embarrass me by flirting and
making very sexist remarks that guys would never dare use if the
positions were reversed...  I finally won that little battle of the
sexualities by wearing one of my bi badges which totally flummoxed her :)
(She thought she was poking fun at a very straight straight.  I can't
help it if I look big & butch & manly ;-) )

G
-- 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: Iseult, Tanaqui and crutches (was: That bloody War )
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:26:23 GMT

In article <iw.713776799@tosser> iw@tosser.Rational.COM (Iseult White) writes:
>BTW  I wish you wouldn't discuss delicious foodstuffs like Morceaus
>Mignons, which I miss terribley, and cannot buy here.  

Make your own.  Take stale bread, break it into chunks (morceau-sized),
and deep-fry them until crispy and golden.  Drain; shake; tumble on
kitchen paper with powdered garlic and a little salt - voila!


			Kay


-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
From: sara@blkhole.resun.com (Organization: News Addicts)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Gender difference?
Date: 23 Aug 92 11:38:47 GMT
Reply-To: sara@castle.ed.ac.uk
Organization: News Addicts

In article <24891@castle.ed.ac.uk> angi@festival.ed.ac.uk (Angi Lamb) writes:
>A less obvious gender difference occurred to me.  After i've been
>vaginally (mine that is) intimate with someone, I am physically aware of
>the penetration for up to 2-4 days afterwards.  I did a quick survey. 
>The women agreed.  The men hadn't heard of the lingering effects before
>and it didn't happen to them. 

For me; 2-4 hours, yes; 2-4 days - not really!

>I got to wondering what emotional effects this could have.  I wonder if
>that explains why men (in general) find it easier to compartmentalise
>the different parts of their life than women do? If you can feel the
>physical effect of a lover days afterwards, thoughts of them are bound
>to surface more readily. 

Someone doesn't need to be my lover for me to be in love with them
(altho if I'm in love with them and they become my lover this
strengthens my love no end, and conversely I might fall in love with
someone I'm having frequent sex with) so I don't need close physical
contact with someone to think about them a lot.  It could as easily be
a remembered conversation or kiss as the lingering "feel" of them.

And also, I am as capable as anyone of switching from passion to a
desire to see what's on the telly, or wonder what's for breakfast, or
read my book, or to want to go out for a beer with my mates.
From: fenthe@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Bethan's Birthday Greetings
Date: 13 Aug 92 22:39:58 GMT
Followup-To: soc.bi
Distribution: soc.bi
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

bethan@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Bethan Davies) writes:
>ObLycraRef : alt.lycra has made it to Edinburgh!!!!

Yay! Now, if I can just convince everyone here to join... 

 (oh, you don't have to read it; just subscribe. That should rig the 
news.lists ballot in it's favour somewhat.. <grin> I'll see it get to
the top of that list yet.)

 -- Fenthe
From: osmith@acorn.co.uk (Owen Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Who am I anyway?
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:52:08 GMT
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England

I'm still trying to work out who I really am. I recently sent some email to
someone, and then realised that it quite nicely expresses my current
thoughts. It sounds a bit mercenary towards bi space on some ways, but as
I've said before if it's me then it's me and I either have to change it or
accept it but not hide from it. If anyone has any thoughts on this stuff,
please go ahead and reply. The surprising thing is, there aren't many (any?)
postings on soc.bi like this. Have you all got yourselves together or what?
(Do people dislike me re-gurgitating my email?)

Anyway, the person I was talking to asked in what way soc.bi was helpful to
me, since she'd felt a bit shunned and ignored when she posted here. My
reply is below. Please tell me if I'm raving mad,

Owen.
---------------------------

Now I think about it, I haven't actually had much direct advice from soc.bi,
just the totally amazing feeling of being accepted. At first I just posted
as a hetero normal male, while posting the tale about the party as a leader
but claiming dressing was just for a laugh at the fancy dress party. That
provoked some interesting discussion about the implied female passivity that
a cross dressed man should have (which I certainly haven't got). After that
I just replied to various threads, and no-one said "hey, bugger off, you're
straight what do you know about it?".

Then I posted the "Why me?" message in which I came out as bisexual (only
slightly), transvestite and possibly TG. Again I got no flames, no "hey this
is soc.bi not soc.tv so bugger off", no judgements or anything. Just some
messages of support and mutual "society is a bastard" type messages. It is
this moral support that I found helped. There are hundreds of people on
soc.bi, and all of them think I'm perfectly normal. Wow!

Ultimately I need to hang around lesbian or bi space anyway. Right now my
best description of myself is "a lesbian trapped in a male body". So I need
lesbians to go out with, but real hard core lesbians may be put off by a
genetic male. Bisexual women seem like the best bet. They can love my female
appearance and personality, and at the same time be quite happy getting
sexual pleasure from my male sex organs. The fact that I'm a bit bisexual as
well (I see the odd man now and then and think "I want to suck his dick" and
similer things) makes bi space a doubly sensible place to hang out. I
have acceptance as a TV, available and appropriate women, and can talk
about (maybe act on?) my bisexuality. Of course this is all electronic
at the moment and I need to make it real at some point, but never-the-less
it's nice to feel that there is somewhere I can exist, be myself, and be
happy all at the same time.

Owen pp Gwendolin (long legged lesbian with freckles)

PS. You did not upset me when you called me "Gwen". It's just that I've
realised that I want to be a woman called "Owen". I don't think it'll
work though. Owen is not a female name. Bugger.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: pmm7@ellis.uchicago.edu (peggy boucher murphy (you had to ask?))
Subject: Re: Is there anybody out there?
Reply-To: pmm7@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 23:38:15 GMT

hi deb!

perhaps when you use the kinsey scale when trying
to talk to your parents, you should use a graph.  
(don't laugh at me, folks!)  

draw the scale, have 0's be straight, 6's gay, and
color everything else *lavender*.  ;)  put a mark 
(purple or pink, of course) in the lavender and 
label it "me".  ;)  

create this masterpiece on a piece of paper that 
just happens to be the size of a bookmark, and put 
it in the front part of _bi any other name_.  
(as heather already recommended...)  

;)

imagine the powerful reinforcement of that bookmark 
every time they put the book down...

;)
peg
-who may be smiling, but is actually pretty serious.  
explaining shades of grey to people who are only 
used to seeing black and white calls for creativity.  

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: pwiebe@ecst.csuchico.edu (s mandell)
Subject: Re: Gender difference?
Organization: California State University, Chico
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 11:12:00 GMT

In article <24891@castle.ed.ac.uk> angi@festival.ed.ac.uk (Angi Lamb) writes:
>A less obvious gender difference occurred to me.  After i've been
>vaginally (mine that is) intimate with someone, I am physically aware of
>the penetration for up to 2-4 days afterwards.  I did a quick survey. 
>The women agreed.  The men hadn't heard of the lingering effects before
>and it didn't happen to them. 
>
>Any comments?
>
>Angi

Just that the amount of time seems shorter for me, only a day or so, and
that it is not deep inside, but only the first cm or so.

Steph
From: sara@blkhole.resun.com (Organization: News Addicts)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Gender difference?
Date: 23 Aug 92 11:47:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: blkhole.BtFq2G.8o3
Reply-To: sara@castle.ed.ac.uk
Organization: News Addicts

aag@aber.ac.uk (Angela Gilham) writes:
>Hmmmmm. I'm somewhat chary of getting into this debate, but I'll
>dip a toe in anyway. The lingering effects are, in my admittedly 

A BIG toe!  >{8-)

[...]
>vague and mealy-mouthed)). The quiet, pleasure filled squirm of
>good anal sex, punctuated by the odd rapid dash for the toilet
>(unfortunately two floors down at work ;-), just doesn't last as
>long.

At work???  So *this* is what you're up to when you're pretending to
be hard at work on chapter five!!!  Is this is in your office, or the
robot lab?  In the words of Connie Francis: "I wanna robot man, to
hold me tight ..."
From: ELAINE@brownvm.brown.edu (Elaine M. Brennan)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Cool Spots for Bis (Was the War Between Us)
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:18:30 GMT
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

In article <5658@ebt-inc.UUCP>, pks@queue.uucp (Pearl Stark) said:

>Just to let you know I'm still here (barely) and because of course
>I couldn't let this pass without plugging providence ...
>PROVIDENCE
>as soc.bi hotspot.
>hear hear.
>cool; yeah; neat; wow; etc etc.
>pearl

yeah, and soon to be even cooler ... and neater ...
Elaine
Newsgroups: soc.bi,alt.polyamory
From: mprice@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Dr Dr)
Subject: Re: alt.personals and enforced monogamy
Reply-To: mtpmd@uiuc.edu
Organization: Medical Scholars Program, U. of IL @ Urbana-Champaign
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 03:47:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.021719.2871@rat.csc.calpoly.edu>
pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary) writes:
  "[....]
  "A friend of mine tried to post anonymously to alt.personals and
  "was rejected because s/he was married. [... suggestion for 
   alt.polyamory.personals....]

Alt.personals is unmoderated, and free access to anyone who gets the group in
their newsfeed and desires to post.  One individual has elected to negotitate
with his company to provide and administer an anonymous contact system, for
use by single people only (this was thoroughly discussed [flamed, really :-) ]
in alt.personals).  The FAQ quoted at the end of the above post (deleted here)
is likewise not an FAQ, but rather the intro to using that ACS (which the
operator calls an ECS).  Alt.personals doesn't have an FAQ, so far as I know,
anyway; at least, I've never seen one.

No one can (or did) bar your friend from posting to personals, only from
posting anonymously via that particular ACS.  The company providing the
resources for the service (such as it is) is apparently reluctant to be party
to any net activities which might potentially "tarnish" its public image.
Anyone with the resources could offer an alternative ACS, however; the
software is freely available.  An unrestricted ACS would no doubt quickly
supercede the present service for "singles only".  However, an
"alt.polyamory.personals" group in itself wouldn't add anything to what's
available thru alt.personals already.

-- 
Michael Price, M.D.   (mptmd@uiuc.edu)

"I wonder, therefore I might be." -- Descartes before de hearse....

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: "Giving up" Marriage
Date: 13 Aug 92 00:29:19 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Aug12.165850.29867@midway.uchicago.edu> elle@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
+issues of same-sex partnerships.)  If we learned anything from the
+Sharon Kowalski- Karen Thompson mess, it should have been to take at
+least _some_ legal steps to protect our relationships.

What is the 'Sharon K...Karen T...' mess?
-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu