HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jhopkins@cbacc.cba.uga.edu (John Hopkins)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: NLCS Game 7
Date: 15 Oct 92 13:56:09 GMT
Organization: Terry College of Business, University of Georgia


WOW, BOB, WOW!!!

That was the sort of game that made me wish Larry Munson was a member of the 
Braves' announcing team.  I can hear it now:

"I didn't mean to beg Sid to run, but I had to....  I broke my chair."
From: dpw@sei.cmu.edu (David Wood)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: The great sports fans of Pittsburgh
Date: 13 Oct 92 13:13:57 GMT
Organization: Software Engineering Institute


In article <ceplMna00YV9E1eatH@andrew.cmu.edu>, mn1s+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Sc
ott Neiberg) writes:
>KDKA television showed a very interesting stat last night.  In the past
>week the following events have (or will have) taken place in Pittsburgh
>and drawn sell-out crowds:
>
>2 Penguin games: 32,000+ fans
>3 Pirate LCS games: 170,000+ fans
>Pitt-Notre Dame: 50,000+ fans
>
>This means that more than 1 in every 10 Pittsburghers will have attended
>a major sporting event this week.  Think about how many people would
>have to show up for New York or Los Angeles to do the same.  And if the
>Steelers were home they would add another 50,000 to that list.
>


But ch00@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Chris Hartzell) asks...

> Yeah, but why wasn't last night's baseball game sold out???  Empty seats in
> the outfield???  tisk, tisk....

Because the game time was changed from afternoon to late night to
accomodate the presidential debates and something like 10,000 people
had to return their tickets at the last minute.  With both major
newspapers on strike, there was no real opportunity to advertise the
availability of these seats on short notice.  My understanding right up
until game time was that the game was sold out, otherwise I might have
gone, even though the available seats were the worst in the stadium.

Naturally, we shouldn't expect CBS dimwits to know the facts.

--Dave Wood
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: brian@meaddata.com (Brian Curran)
Subject: Re: Pinella out??? (was Re: Winning a short series)
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:38:11 GMT

In article <ld66e8INNc0h@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM>, str@maredsous.Eng.Sun.COM (Todd Rader) writes:
|> Actually, very few fans in Cincinatti should consider Pinella a manager at all.
|> I hear he either quit or was fired last night.  Anybody have details?

Lou met with Reds owner Marge Schott yesterday to discuss next season.
Lou's contract is up and he told Marge that he did not wish to return
to the Reds for 1994.  She tried to talk him out of it but failed.
He was NOT fired, and he didn't technically resign.  He just didn't
want to sign a contract with Cincinnati.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Curran                 Mead Data Central              brian@meaddata.com 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yogi Berra, New York Yankees catcher, after his wife said she'd been to see
 'Dr Zhivago':  "Oh?  What's the matter with you?"
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: NLCS Game #5 at 9:41
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:56:35 GMT
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering

Thus spake psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek):

>In article <1992Oct12.032828.9604@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:

 [Paul Galvanek writes:]
>>>Once again we see that a WALK is definitely not as vaulable as a HIT.

>>Once again, we see people setting up straw men.  Nobody ever said it was, 
>>unless there's a man on first and he's slow.

>With all due respect folks, no one may have used the exact wording but, many
>here have argued that OBP is a more important stat that batting average, or rbisetc and no matter how you slice it that argument - OBP > BA - boils down to
>walks are as important as hits.

With all due respect, Paul, no it doesn't.  Not even close, in fact.

What it *does* boil down to is that how frequently you make outs has more
effect on team scoring than what fraction of your non-walks are hits.
If you want to characterize that as claiming that "outs are more important
than non-hits", you'd be close; much closer than the reading you gave above.

Analogy: slugging average is more important than HR frequency, too.  Does
this mean that a double is more valuable or important than a HR?  Of course
not.  Just because HR's are more valuable than doubles doesn't mean that
ignoring doubles gives you better measure of offensive value.  Similarly,
the fact that hits are more valuable than walks (which of course they are, 
*nobody* here has ever suggested otherwise) in no way implies that you can
look *just* at hit rate per non-walk and get a better measure of value than
you would get if you worried about walks, too.  

>>But then again, it's infinitely better than an out.

>Why is it?  With a man on third a out the walk and the out produce exactly
>the same result - NO RUN!

Uh, right.  I've always known King was bad, but I never realized that he had
an OBP of .000.  Wow.

Look, Paul; even with Jeff "I'm a prospect, dammit" King batting, you've got
at *least* a 25% chance that something positive will happen.  If it's a hit,
at least one run scores.  If it's a walk, you have Don Slaught batting with
the bases loaded.  I would *much* rather have Don Slaught batting for my team
with the bases loaded than Barry Bonds batting with a man on third only, and
swinging at balls out of the strike zone.  It's not even close.  Bonds's 
chances of making something good happen by swinging at trash pitches is very
close to zero, especially against great pitching like the Braves have.  Taking
the walk is his best bet, and it is NOT BARRY'S FAULT if the rest of the
batting order rots.


-- 
       David Tate        |"Out of the dugout endlessly swinging,
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | Out of the manager's throat, the sound fundamentals,
 Prof. of Story Problems | Out of the six-month season..."            
 Member ORSA, TIMS, SABR | 	Walt "Lefty" Whitman
From: huang@jeeves.ucsd.edu (Bo Huang)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Was Bream Out?
Date: 16 Oct 92 06:33:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: sdcc12.39594
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Oct15.131049.1@kean.ucs.mun.ca> roger@kean.ucs.mun.ca writes:
>> 
>	He was out, the Bucs was robbed!
>
Well, I think the home umpire made the right call.  Even if
Bream was called out, it's a tie game, and I think the Braves
will win it anyway in the extra innings just because the
momentum has been shifted toward their side.  It's just one of
these things that can only happen in baseball.  That's what
makes baseball an exciting game.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: stanm@comm.mot.com (Stan Macasieb)
Subject: Re: Was Bream Out?
Reply-To: stanm@comm.mot.com
Organization: Motorola
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 16:31:50 GMT

In article 1bju8mINN18d@rave.larc.nasa.gov, bandwen@eagle.larc (bando) writes:
>From where I was watching the game (not real close to the TV),
>Sid Bream looked out or very very close to being out at home.
>Is it just me or what?

The lead foot of Bream appeared to tap the plate before Spanky was able to apply 
the tag to the trailing leg. At the moment I would've called it an out, but
home plate umpire Randy Marsh was in position and made the correct call.

BTW, if it really matters, does anybody have any new details on the condition
of John McSherry? Talk about a guy who needs to get on the Ultra Slim-Fast
plan!

******************************************************************************
--Stan Macasieb  (starting Monday 10/19/92)  | "It's not over until we 
--Motorola, General Systems Sector,          |  we say it's over!"
--Cellular Infrastructure Group		     |
--Arlington Heights, IL 		     | "The opera ain't over 'til
--   Home of Arlington Int'l Racecourse      |  the fat lady sings."
---------------------------------------------|
~~The opinion expressed in this post is not  | OK, OK, I'm outta here, 
~~necessarily those of this corporation.     | but can't I at least take
~~Copyright 1992, all rights reserved.       | my Maddux and Roenick posters? 
******************************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt "Some Guy" Bose)
Subject: Getting back to real baseball...
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 01:45:59 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Well, now that I've waded through the 142 exclamation point laden posts of
woofing which made me think that for a brief, odd moment I was reading the
college basketball newsgroup, more rumors du jour about major league 
baseball outside of Toronto and Atlanta...

Reportedly, the Marlins would like to sign Rene Lachemann to manage the
club next year, but that's contingent on whether or not Lachemann is offered
the Texas Rangers managerial position.  If Lachemann hooks up with Texas, the
offer to manage will reportedly be extended to Bill Virdon.

Meanwhile, Davey Johnson was sighted fishing in Florida...

We now return you to your scheduled one-upsmanship using assorted punctuation.

-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) * kbos@carina.unm.edu * Make outs, not walks!
Keeper of the R.S.BB FAQ, and Junior Stathead {tm} * Maintainer, R.S.BB Archive
Be kind. Don't flame the mediots. * Look, stupid comments are funny!'-R. Lustig
"Losers like you don't deserve electronic rights!" - Ross "Wonder-Boy" Erickson
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: v085f2wd@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Theodore J Kury)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Canadians in MLB
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:55:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: acsu.Bw84CC.IvL
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Someone asked about the percentage of Canadians on the Blue Jays vs. the 
Americans on the Pens, that's easy because the Jays have none. The Pens have
Kevin Stevens and Tom Barrasso (and undoubtably others) and the Jays have two
Dominicans (Lee and Griffin, I think) and a Puerto Rican (Alomar) but as far
as I know, the rest are American.

The only Canadians in the majors are Larry Walker of the Expos and Denis 
Boucher of the Indians, that I know of. Rheal Cormier of the Cards has the 
name, but I don't know where he's from.

Ted Kury
From: al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Amit Likhyani)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: one more out
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:40:34 GMT
Organization: Senior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I don't think I will ever forget this.  You really can't blame Belinda
or really anyone.  It was just one of those things, I guess.  It really
hurts.

I can't believe I am doing this, but go Toronto Blue Jays.  I really
don't like the Braves, or their fans, or their owner.  Despite my hatred
of Canadian teams, anything beats a Braves world championship.

Pirate fans are going to have another bad day in another couple of weeks
when Bonds leaves for either the Yankees, Phillies, or Braves although
that day will pale in comparison to this one.

The run for the Bonds, Bonilla, Van Slyke, Drabek, Smiley nucleus is
over.  They turned the franchise around, but came one excrusicating out
away from getting to the world series.

It will be a couple of years until the next chance(unless they sign
Bonds).  The Kevin Young, Steve Cooke, Bret Backlund, Tim Wakefield,
Carlos Garcia, Midre Cummings era will start in April.

I will be very surprised if the Pirates do not go out and get a bullpen
stopper.

Pirate fans:  go drink a beer and try to forget about it.  I am still in shock.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kev@fred.Berkeley.EDU (Kevin Eckert)
Subject: NLCS game 7: 9th inning recap
Keywords: Pirate Nightmare
Organization: UC Berkeley, University of California Berkeley
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 07:28:26 GMT


*** Drabek starts the 9th with 2-0 lead ***

Pendleton doubles into the right field corner
Justice aboard on 2B Lind error; Pendleton to third
Bream walks on 4 rather wild Drabek pitches; bases loaded

*** Belinda relieves Drabek ***

Gant delivers a sac fly to deep left; Pendleton 
	scores to make it 2-1 (how many people 
	thought that Gant had hit a pennant-
	winning grand-slam?  I sure did ... )
Blauser walks, reloading the bases (I think it was 
	Blauser; all this is from memory w/o a VCR)
Hunter (pinch-hitting) loops weakly to Lind on
	outfield grass for the second out
Cabrerra (pinch-hitting) rolls a 2-2 offering
	from Belinda into left, scoring Justice
	and Bream, making it 3-2 and giving the Braves 
        the pennant

Bream didn't get up from his slide across home-plate 
for about a two minutes because the rest of the Braves
had dog-piled on top of him.

To all you Pirate fans out there, I can empathize ...
I remember `86 like it was yesterday.

-kevin
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: brian@meaddata.com (Brian Curran)
Subject: Re: Clemens for Gonzalez?
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 13:28:22 GMT

In article <Bw2qM7.5p4@chinet.chi.il.us>, prb@chinet.chi.il.us (Paul Botts) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct12.193919.20266@athena.mit.edu> jfc@athena.mit.edu (John F Carr) writes:
|> >
|> >Trading Clemens would be a bad public relations move for the Red Sox.
|> >
|> I have to agree. Trading the greatest pitcher of his era - quite
|> possibly the greatest *player* of his era - while he's still in his
|> prime would be a public-relations disastor of staggering proportions,
|> even if you got a major young stud All-Star like Gonzalez. Clemens has
|> become an icon for Bosox fans (even if they sometimes get ticked off at
|> him for off-season stuff), and puts fannies in the seats and eyes and
|> ears on the airwaves. He's not just an all-time great, he's got a
|> certain *presence* on the field, that certain kind of dominating
|> intensity and overpowering ability that Michael Jordan has. Having a
|> player like that can weld an entire generation of fans to a team for
|> life, I think, even after the player is gone and even if the team
|> subsequently becomes uninteresting. How many Yankee fans were sustained
|> in their faith through the horrors of the late 60s/early 70s by the
|> memory of their boyhood idol Mickey Mantle? I am not a Bostonian, but if
|> I was, I am sure that the Bosox' trading Clemens would sour me on them
|> for a good long time, and cost them quite a few coins from my pockets
|> and time from my life. 

Well put.  As a Bosox fan, I can tell you that I would almost certainly
lose interest in the club (probably out of spite) if they were to trade
the Rocket.  Period.  I don't care if they get Canseco, Sierra, AND Gonzalez.
Hell, throw in the entire Braves pitching staff!  Clemens is a thrilling
player whose intensity and reliability affects the entire club (albeit not
always positively), and I would not trade him for ANYTHING.

|> Certain players do become bigger than their teams. Clemens is one.

Roger Clemens is not bigger than the Red Sox.  He IS the Red Sox.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Curran                 Mead Data Central              brian@meaddata.com 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Francis, New England Patriots tight end, describing defensive linemen:
 "If their IQs were five points lower, they would be geraniums."
From: gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: 1993 SABR convention
Date: 9 Oct 92 04:58:54 GMT
Organization: Somewhere in Hoboken

are there any plans to have one in ny in the near future?  i used
 to be a member, and dropped out..but might be rejoining soon...

also, i think we should send roger maynard to one of the sabr conventions.
 he'd have a good time. at least he could with some of the older
 ballplayers...
- bob gaj
From: schmke@cco.caltech.edu (Kevin Todd Schmidt)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: NL OPI Final
Date: 7 Oct 1992 19:27:09 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

sfh@po.CWRU.Edu (Steven F. Hubbard) writes:


>In a previous article, schmke@cco.caltech.edu (Kevin Todd Schmidt) says:

>>      0.74*1B + 1.28*2B + 1.64*3B + 2.25*HR + 0.53*BB + 0.34*(SB-2*CS)
>>OPI = ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>                              AB - H
>>
>>BA = H / AB
>>
>>SLG = (H + 2B + 2*3B + 3*HR) / AB
>>
>>OBA = (H + BB) / (AB + BB)
>>

>  Specifically, what is OPI designed to measure?  I know what BA, SLG, and
>OBP mean, but this OPI formula is.  It looks like something/outs, but what
>is that something?

It stands for Offensive Production Index.  I have tried to scale the numbers
so that it should be "Expected" runs per 9 innings.  If you look at the
team OPI's they are about 0.400-0.450.  This would equate to 3.6-4.05 runs
per 9 innings.

>  Along the same lines, what does OPS measure?  It takes two quantities that
>I understand, and combines them into some master number.  Having read this
>group off and on for a couple years, I've started ranking players offensively
>by OPS because it seems to put the correct names at the top of the list --
>Bonds, Thomas, etc.  Is there some specific skill besides the rather vague
>sounding "skill at batting" being measured?

I don't know.

Kevin
-- 
Jet Propulsion Laboratory | schmke@cco.caltech.edu
4800 Oak Grove Dr.        | schmidt@spc5.jpl.nasa.gov
M/S 525-3684              |
Pasadena, CA  91109       |
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hutto@SMTC.engr.scarolina.edu (Brent Hutto)
Subject: Re: TOO LEGIT TO QUIT; THE BRAVES IN THE WORLD SERIES
Reply-To: hutto@smtc.engr.scarolina.edu
Organization: NIST Southeast Manufacturing Technology Center
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 01:43:18 GMT

In article <15OCT199214424914@cats.ucis.vill.edu>, mcclure@cats.ucis.vill.edu (MCCLURE HAROLD) writes:

>Final thought: Cox has a starting rotation problem with Avery having to do
>so much last night. I would go with Smith/Glavine/Avery/Smoltz/Glavine/Avery
>and Smoltz for game 7. Any other thoughts on this?

    My thoughts...

    Smoltz needs at least 3 days rest, preferably 4.

    Glavine and Avery need their confidence boosted.

    My rotation...

    Tell Tommy Glavine right now that he's your Game 1 starter. I get the
    impression that things like that are a big honor to him. That puts him
    in Game 4 and Game 7, if needed.

    Set Smoltz for Game 3, giving him 5 days rest, so he can start again
    in Game 6 (3 days rest) and pitch as many innings as needed in both
    starts.

    Steve Avery isn't bothered by pitching on the road in a strange stadium.
    Tell him that you need him to pitch one game at Toronto because you know
    he can get you a win there. That would be Game 5 (at Toronto) and, working 
    backwards from there, Game 2, with 3 days rest.

    Worry about Game 7, if needed, when that time rolls around. You'll have
    Smith, Leibrandt and either Avery or Smoltz if one or the other of them
    makes an early exit in their second start.

    In other words...

    Game 1   Tommy Glavine  in Atlanta  (2 inning appearance doesn't matter)
    Game 2   Steve Avery    in Atlanta  3 days rest (since relief appearance)

    Off Day

    Game 3   John Smoltz    at Toronto  5 days rest
    Game 4   Tommy Glavine  at Toronto  3 days rest
    Game 5   Steve Avery    at Toronto  3 days rest

    Off Day

    Game 6   John Smoltz    in Atlanta  3 days rest
    Game 7   TBA            in Atlanta
-------------------------------
Brent Hutto
hutto@SMTC.engr.scarolina.edu
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Leave McCarver Alone, Part II
Date: 17 Oct 92 03:05:02 GMT
Organization: Clark University

Hey, you're picking on Timmy again, when I *TOLD* you not
to do that!!  Don't you people LISTEN????

I don't think this is anything like the Don Sutton situation at
all.  When McCarver was in the Mets locker room in 1986, he was
practically drowned in champagne and beer and shaving cream and 
whatever else was handy, and he took it in good fun, as it was
meant.

This was obviously spoiled-brat Deion using the wild postgame
celebration as a cover so he could get back at McCarver for his 
remarks.  If Deion had a problem with McCarver's comments, there
are other, more mature ways of making his feelings known.

And if anybody tries to excuse Deion's behavior by saying "But
professional athletes are *all* immature!"  the answer is "Maybe,
but some are more infantile than others -- and if society is
rewarding them by paying them unconscionable amounts of money,
it's appropriate for society to demand a reasonably adult
standard of behavior from them."

Besides, Deion's a jerk.  Kick his ass, Tim.  But first, why don't
you call down your buddy Ray Knight, the Golden Glover, from the
ESPN booth -- he's a good puncher...  

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
From: aaron@juliet.caltech.edu (Packman, Aaron I.)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: SF offer for Giants
Date: 13 Oct 1992 11:56 PST
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: juliet.caltech.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1992Oct13.161659.2899@odin.corp.sgi.com>, luigi@sgi.com (Randy Palermo) writes...
>In article <13OCT199210063429@mary.fordham.edu> nissim@mary.fordham.edu (Leonard J. Nissim) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct12.222615.3279@adobe.com>, snichols@adobe.com 
>>(Sherri Nichols) writes...
>>>
>>>Despite the pullout of lead investor George Shinn, a coalition of SF
>>>investors led by Safeway chairman Peter Magowan has presented NL president
>>>Bill White with an offer to buy the Giants for $95 million.  In addition to
>>>...
>>>The reported bid by the Tampa Bay group was $115 million, which included a
>>>$10 million loan by Bob Lurie.  
>>> 
>>Why should Lurie even consider an offer for $20,000,000.00 less?  (Unless the 
>>owners vote down the move.)  Has SF given him $20,000,000.00 worth of good 
>>feelings?  Hardly. 
> 
>I have heard that $13M of the shortfall will be made up from the franchise
>fees. The Giants were due to receive $13M from the fees collected from
>Florida and Denver for expansion. The Tampa bid was structured so that
>they received the $13M. In the SF offer, Lurie gets the $13M. That, effec-
>tively, makes the offer $108M and has ONLY a $7M shortfall. In addition,
>Lurie was to loan the Tampa group $10M. He will not be asked to provide
>that for the local offer. 
> 

You guys are missing the point.  The value of the offer doesn't matter to
Lurie--he has repeatedly said that he made an honest deal with Tampa and
will consider no other offers.  These counter offers are being submitted
to the National League in the hopes that other team owners will vote against
the Tampa sale.  There isn't much hope of the move being voted down if 
noone in the Bay Area is willing to buy the team, but the general feeling
is that most owners would prefer to see the Giants stay in SF.  So the local
Bay Area group is just trying to come up with a competitive (but not equal!)
offer.

Personally, I think the team should be allowed to move to Tampa.  The fact is,
Lurie made every reasonable effort to keep the team in SF.  And he's been
taking a financial bloodbath for the last few years.  Basically, SF has shown
that it is unwilling and unable to support the Giants.  I don't think SF
deserves the Giants.  IMO, the only reason that there's any delay at all is 
because AL owners don't want two NL teams in Florida.  I just hope the
owners do what's right and let the team move.  

Oh, I also hope that there won't be any lawsuits over this.  Unfortunately,
I think there will be one brought forward by the eventual losing city.


Aaron Packman
aaron@caltech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball