HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: csmith@cis.ohio-state.edu (craig edward smith)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.president.clinton
Subject: Re: Maya Angelou inaugural poem
Date: 26 Jan 1993 23:41:48 -0500
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: tortoise.cis.ohio-state.edu

In article <1k4r67INN9dk@harpo.uccs.edu> render@massive (Hal Render) writes:
>Gerald Olchowy (golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca) wrote:
>: Angelou also makes one huge politically incorrect faux pas in her
>: poem using the term "Eskimo" for the Inuit...which is akin to using
>: the N-word for African Americans...shame on her.  

>Perhaps she has not talked about the Inuit before and has not had occasion
>to be instructed on the new term.   Perhaps you could of sent her a letter
>explaining the preferred terminology before criticizing her.  Respect for 
>another person often means that you resist criticizing a person for a fault
>of which they are not aware.

Yes freinds, "new speak" did not die in the novel "1984". Now we must all
be instructed in the proper terms to use.

As they said in 'South Pacific': "You've got to be carefully taught!"
-----
"The main flaw of Creation Theory is that it depends too much on conjecture
and miracles, and the main flaw of Evolution Theory is that it depends too
much on conjecture and miracles."
Craig Edward Smith (csmith@cis.ohio-state.edu)
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: RE: The Warrior Queens (was: Paglia)
Date: 28 Jan 93 03:50:15 GMT
Organization: Clark University

I wrote:

>>I should think that would explain why the term "fishwife" is offensive to
>>a woman leader in a way that other epithets would not be offensive to a
>>male. 

Jeff Dalton wrote:

>Since I haven't denied that it would be differently offensive, why 
>are you making this point? 

Because, in what appeared to be an effort to prove that Thatcher did not 
receive sexist criticism, you compared her being called a "fishwife" 
to a male politician being called a "dead sheep", which is an incorrect 
comparison.

>Moreover, that no man "no man could possibly be subject to the same 
>criticism" is, despite being almost true, a red herring.  People adapt 
>the abuse to the person.  So what? 

So it happens to be what we're discussing: the type of abuse and 
criticism directed at women as opposed to that directed at men. 

>If you want to paint a misleading picture of British politics, go 
>ahead.  But don't expect that no one will call you on it. 

Why do you keep thinking that this thread is about British politics?  Check
the subject line.  

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.politics.soviet
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Robert Conquest's _The Great Terror_
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 20:15:50 GMT

In article <C1AL8J.KL@panix.com> gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch) writes:
>But it is certain that mistakes will be made, and the
>innocent sometimes executed, even if not very often.
>This is a well-known fact and the public remains 
>unmoved by it, the beneficial effects of the death
>penalty being considered more important.  Therefore 
>they support the same idea of terror as Krylenko;
>the difference is that Krylenko was explicit.

If you give out life sentences, then it is sometimes true that innocents will
get imprisoned, too.

Now, sometimes it is possible to discover that someone who has already been in
jail for a while is innocent, and release him.  You can't do that if they're
dead.  But this does not always happen; it is just as inevitable that some
innocents will rot in jail for the rest of their life, as it is that some
innocents will be killed if the death penalty is used a lot.  One could argue
that fewer innocents get penalized, but not none; if it is "support of terror"
when any innocents at all, without regard to quantity, get harmed, then
those who support life sentences likewise support terror.
--
"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Leftover Turkey!
On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Turkey Casserole
    that she made from Leftover Turkey.
[days 3-4 deleted] ...  Flaming Turkey Wings! ...
   -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: glink@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (gary g link)
Subject: Re: Ancient History Novels
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:10:02 GMT

For Greek historical novels, there are none finer than anything by Mary
Renault. I particularly enjoyed her series about Theseus..."Fire From
Heaven"  "The Bull From the Sea"  "The King Must Die".

All excellent.

Susanna

"Reindeer Moon" springs to mind as a reasonable anthro-novel...far
better than the Jean Auel anthro-porn.
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: "Harlan Ellison's Watching" by Harlan Ellison
Date: 21 Jan 1993 22:08 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Dani Zweig writes...
>An interesting counterpoint to Ellison's review collections is the
>essay "Revealed At Last!  Why the Dinosaurs Died Out -- And You Don't
>Look So Good Either."  (Was it included in this book?)


+-------------------------------------SubG----------------------------------+
The essay in question is reprinted in _The Harlan Ellison Hornbook_, a
collection of essays written for a column of that name that appreared
(primarily) in the Los Angeles Free Press back in the good ol' days.












-SubGenius
From: nall@ibm12.scri.fsu.edu (John Nall)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Why I signed off this list
Date: 22 Jan 93 15:37:38 GMT
Reply-To: nall@ibm12.scri.fsu.edu (John Nall)
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

In article <1993Jan21.205620.14296@cs.rochester.edu> garrett@cs.rochester.edu (Bill Garrett) writes:
>In article <C17yLu.Er@fc.hp.com> daq@fc.hp.com (Doug Quarnstrom) writes:
>>Of course you have to make some effort to distinguish between 
>>someone who is giving you valid criticism and someone who is merely

  ...

>I agree with just about everything you've written here.  The tone alone
>is also not that important to me, I've come to expect a somewhat
>condescending tone from many people on the Usenet (whether the tone
>is warranted or not is another point).  My problem comes when the message
>is wrapped up in insults not when the tone is bad.  I just handle insults
>from people I don't personally know poorly.  I think that lots of people
>also don't care to be insulted as a rite of passage on the net.


So are you going to sign off the list or not?  These drawn-out goodbyes
are bad form :-)

John

-- 
John W. Nall              | Supercomputer Computations Research Institute
nall@mailer.scri.fsu.edu  | Florida State University, Tallahassee, Florida
  "Why yes, as a matter of fact, I DID vote for Hillary!!" - me
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Novels about writers
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:24:00 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: arc2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (AMY CHARLES)

In article <1993Jan25.015009.42051@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, arc2@ns1 (AMY CHARLES) writes:
>Anybody read any good books w/writer as protagonist lately?

Good: Samuel Beckett MALONE DIES.  Lately: Stephen King MISERY.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Why I signed off this list
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1993Jan21.133350.2108@cs.rochester.edu>
Date: 21 Jan 93 08:23:08

One needs not merely to be able to withstand fair criticism but also
totally rude and ignorant attacks.  This is entirely possible.
However, one should try to extract germs of proper criticism from
attacks even when almost all of an attack is just rudeness.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: "Harlan Ellison's Watching" by Harlan Ellison
Date: 26 Jan 1993 12:16 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Stewart Tame writes...

>TMWNL isn't very good, true, but it's an Ace Double with _Touch of Infinity_
>which is a pretty decent short story collection.  Are you sure you aren't
>confusing it with _The Doomsman_ which was a double book with some John
>Brunner novel or something like that.  I heard a story about some fan who
>tried to get Harlan to autograph a copy of TD and Harlan proceeded to
>tear it to shreds.

[deletia]

+-----------------------------------------SubG--------------------------------+
Dunno about the veracity of the story, but I'll vouch for Ellison's opinion
of _The Doomsman_.  I got a copy (probably for about thirty cents), but I'm
afraid that I don't have it with me, so I can't say what the other half of the
book was.  The cover, as I recall, is an orangy-pink colour not unlike the
hue one finds in one's commode after a dose of pepto failed to coat, soothe
or relieve one's bouyant gorge, and consists of a large stern-browed bald
head superimposed above what is presumably and alien landscape.  The bald
guy looks a bit like Yul Brenner.  But then again, ALL bald guys look a bit
like Yul Brenner.






-SubGenius


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kasprj@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: More sf babble 
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge 
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:35:03 GMT

 Danny-Boy wrote:
|> I would like to see some suggestions for science fiction with original
|> ideas presented in a talented fashion. 
 
 I gave it my best shot, and Danny-Boy replied:
|> I would like some more recent ones. 
|> 
|> Suggest some different people.

 Let it never be said that the readers of this group are less than demanding.

 Looking for recent works of science fiction which present original ideas 
is an Herculean endaevor these days, as most of the truly original concepts
in SF were mined out by the writers of the Golden Age. I'm assuming you're 
already familiar with the works of Asimov, Clarke and Heinlein. 
 
 Let me try again and reccomend Edgar Pangborn. Start with _Davy_, _A Mirror
for Observers_, and _West of the Sun_, and after that you're on your own.
Also, Stanley Weinbaum's _The New Adam_ is one of the best treatments of the
superhuman dealing with human society that I've encountered.
 
|> I will go get the others as soon as I am motivated to read novels again.
 
 Um, let me get this straight. You're looking for science fiction suggestions
but you don't want to read _novels_? Hmm, that's a toughie. Try the works of 
Trofim Lysenko.

|> (where is my list of ideas?)
 
 Sorry, this is the Science Fiction Department. You want Philosophy, two doors
down on your left.
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *| "And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start 
     \_|      To mold a new reality -- closer to the heart."
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Frayn's NOW YOU KNOW
From: del_col@ab.wvnet.edu
Date: 27 Jan 93 08:28:00 -0500
Organization: Alderson-Broaddus College

Anybody read Michael Frayn's NOW YOU KNOW? Comments?  Appreciations?
Denigrations?

J. Del Col
From: jjh00@diag.amdahl.com (Joel Hanes)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Hogan's films
Keywords: open mind
Date: 22 Jan 93 21:36:29 GMT
Reply-To: jjh00@diag.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation  Sunnyvale California


  s1mbm@isuvax.iastate.edu (michael bruce mcdonald) writes:
>Great post, Ron.  My erstwhile position is one that I shall no longer
>seek to defend, nor to propound.
>
>propounding off,
>michael mcdonald

Look closely, Laydeez an' Gennulmen.  Here, before your eyes,
in these few words, are revealed the very rarest of Usenet
phenomena -- the workings of an open mind.

Mr. McDonald admits, in public, that he has been convinced 
by his erstwhile opponent's arguments and *compliments* him.

   A tip o' me 'at to Michael Bruce McDonald.
   Would that we had *many* more like him.
 
   Maybe if I'm good, I'll grow up to have as much integrity ....
  
                                    naaaaah
 
---
Joel Hanes
From: sheilah@wam.umd.edu (Danny-Boy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Menil Collection Re: Where is well met in Huston, TX?
Date: 27 Jan 93 22:18:09 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park



>I hear there's a good Magritte exhibition in Houston right now--

>Kate

>kate@cactus.org
>Be the voice of night and Florida in my ear.


At the Menil Collection. 


-- 
I am always wrong. Don't believe me ever.
stark raving sane  sheilah@wam.umd.edu
From: dprezios@ep.ieee.org (D Preziosi)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: For Thine is the kingdom
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:18:19 GMT
Reply-To: dprezios@ep.ieee.org
Organization: IEEE, New York, NY

In article 29930@fys.ruu.nl, johnston@fys.ruu.nl (Helen Johnston) writes:
> In article <d6n3qd#@rpi.edu> kasprj@rpi.edu writes:
> > 
> > All right, I tripped up a bit here. It isn't said at the end of the Lord's 
> >Prayer. But I could have sworn that _somewhere_ in the Catholic Mass that I
> >remember going to (not so long ago that it was in Latin), there occurs the 
> >line: "For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever".
> >Now, I know that r.a.b is just swarming with ex-, lapsed and recovered 
> >Catholics, but is there anyone in here who's actually been to a Mass lately
> >who could tell me that I wasn't hallucinating that part, and where exactly
> >it occurs? 
> > 
> Yes, yes; after you get to the "...deliver us from evil" bit, the
> congregation stops and the priest says "Deliver us, Lord, from every
> evil..." (mumble mumble: I haven't been to Mass THAT recently!), after
> which the congregation continues "For the kingdom, the power, and the
> glory are yours, now and for ever" (in the new, nasty Catholic
> translation). You weren't hallucinating.
> 
> -- 
> Helen Johnston       | Astronomye is an harde thynge and yvel forto knowe.
> johnston@fys.ruu.nl  |      -- William Langland, Piers the Plowman


``DEliver us Lord from every evil and grant us peace in our day.''
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: bhickle@tcs.com (Bob Hickle)
Subject: "The Generous Years" - Chet Huntley's autobiography
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:26:20 GMT

Does anyone know where I might find the book "The Generous Years"?
It is the autobiography of former newsman Chet Huntley.
It's a pretty nice narrative of what life was like growing up
on a farm in the mid-west during the early 1900's.

Unfortunately, I believe it is out of print.

Thanks for any help...

Bob Hickle

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Hickle				(510)-649-3588
Teknekron Communications Systems	Internet: bhickle@tcs.com
2121 Allston Way, Berkeley, CA 94704	uucp	: uunet!tcs!bhickle
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Subject: Re: Books we're too righteous to censor-- but would like to
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 08:32:53 GMT

  I would censor--I mean outlaw--any book that gets on the best-seller list.

  Hmm..., there may be some logistical difficulties involved.

 - David

--
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Debil, on the shores of Bohemia.
################################
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Vanity Fair, or the long sojourn
Date: 25 Jan 93 21:27:24 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


Last night I finally finished the last of 950-odd pages of Vanity Fair, and 
I found myself wondering why I'd bothered.  That's a bit harsh -- I did
enjoy the book; the humor is fun, the characters are occasionally
diverting (though Amelia, the "tender parasite," is one of the most
irritating characters in Victorian fiction -- was she supposed to be held
up as a feminine ideal?  Bleah!), and the skewering of rigid society is
welcome.  

But I can't imagine why Thackeray felt he needed 950 pages to tell that
story.  Probably it was the whole serialization problem again, a la
Dickens.  Gotta pad, pad, and pad again.  

I did find myself rooting for Becky, the "little adventuress," most of the
time; in the end, she was the only element of the story that held my
interest.  

Has anyone else waded through this or any other endless book, and wondered
why?


-- 
I can identify with steelworkers.  I can identify with workers that have
had a difficult time.      -- Former Vice-President Danforth Quayle
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
From: cwalters@ducvax.auburn.edu (The Honky Avenger)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Looking for out-of-print O.S.Card/H.Ellison
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:41:00 GMT
Organization: Auburn University--Auburn, AL
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Hi there.

There's a used/rare book searching place in town I just discovered,
and I wanna run it through the wringer :)

First of all, there's a reasonably obscure book by Orson Scott Card
and someone else called "Saint Speak: <and there was some other part of
the title I've forgotten>" and I was just reminded of it a few days ago
in an issue of SF-LOVERS-DIGEST, which I deleted by mistake :(

Anyhow, this book is supposed to be a different look
at Mormonism.  Is there anyone out there who can tell me any detail
about this book?  Like, who the other author is, the full title,
the publisher, the copyright date, etc.?

Also, I'm going to compile a list of Harlan Ellison books that are
out of print or hard to find.  Can any of you Harlan fans out there
e-mail me the titles of books that just aren't around any more?

Thanks for your help, everyone.

Christian Walters
dcwalter@dcw.b23b.ingr.com 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu (Debil)
Subject: Re: Tom Maddox's _Halo_ (was Re: The WORST novel ever written?)
Organization: UCLA Department of Angst 
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 14:37:17 GMT

Jeremy Henderson writes:
|> In article <1993Jan18.084219.7656@netcom.com> tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox) writes:
|> ->
|> ->	In either case, I may swear off any complicated mathematics whatever 
|> ->in future narratives as I really feel like an unbeliever who is bandying
|> ->about the terms of a deeply held faith--given both my ignorance and my lack
|> ->of devotion, I might easily make a profound blunder.
|> 
|> So why did you include that bit in the first place?

  Well, Maddox's article in question still has not reached this site, 
but I will take the leap and say that you are both wrong, given what 
I see above.

  First, the question should not be "why include it in the first place",
the question should be "why not get it right".

  Second, Tom should not give up on (complicated) mathematics in future
narratives--with such a negative and defeatist attitude he might as well 
give up on science fiction.

  Why did not Tom visit his friendly Math department?  Make budies with 
the mathematicians.  You will find that math is the poetry of reason--much 
closer to the arts than you might expect. 

  Tom's instinct on using the name Aleph_0, as well as his desire to throw
some light on its set theoretic origin, is perfectly justifiable if you read
_Halo_.  So next time he gets a good idea, I hope he won't throw it out just
because it smells of math.

 - Debil
             It is a safe rule to apply that, when a mathematical
            or philosophical author writes with a misty profundity,
                          he is talking nonsense.
  
                                                         - A.N. Whitehead

--
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Debil, on the shores of Bohemia.
################################
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.president.clinton
From: barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Poet Laureate
Date: 24 Jan 93 04:20:38 GMT
Organization: Georgia Tech Research Institute

Wasn't Robert Frost a poet laureate?

It's been my impression that most of them aren't very good (British ones 
anyway), i.e., Southey.  (But I'm biased toward Byron, who insulted Southey
quite wittily, as I believe has been discussed here.)  But I like Frost.

-- 
Barclay Elizabeth Blanchard    barclay@rail9000.gatech.edu
"I've been laughed at by some of the funniest people."
--Lissie, Alice Walker's _The Temple of My Familiar_
From: hoosiers@carson.u.washington.edu (Mary Loveless)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: For Thine is the kingdom
Date: 26 Jan 1993 19:27:03 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

In article <1993Jan26.144630.29930@fys.ruu.nl> johnston@fys.ruu.nl (Helen
Johnston) writes: 
>In article <d6n3qd#@rpi.edu> kasprj@rpi.edu writes:
>> 
>> All right, I tripped up a bit here. It isn't said at the end of the Lord's 
>>Prayer. But I could have sworn that _somewhere_ in the Catholic Mass that I
>>remember going to (not so long ago that it was in Latin), there occurs the 
>>line: "For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever".
>>Now, I know that r.a.b is just swarming with ex-, lapsed and recovered 
>>Catholics, but is there anyone in here who's actually been to a Mass lately
>>who could tell me that I wasn't hallucinating that part, and where exactly
>>it occurs? 
>> 
>Yes, yes; after you get to the "...deliver us from evil" bit, the
>congregation stops and the priest says "Deliver us, Lord, from every
>evil..." (mumble mumble: I haven't been to Mass THAT recently!), after
>which the congregation continues "For the kingdom, the power, and the
>glory are yours, now and for ever" (in the new, nasty Catholic
>translation). You weren't hallucinating.
>
>-- 
>Helen Johnston       | Astronomye is an harde thynge and yvel forto knowe.
>johnston@fys.ruu.nl  |      -- William Langland, Piers the Plowman

"For Thine is the kingdom....." is the Protestant version.  Said it every
Sunday, at the end of the LP, at New Hope Evangelical United Brethren
Church, for many years.  

Mary Loveless
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: stame@emunix.emich.edu (Stewart Tame)
Subject: Re: Looking for out-of-print O.S.Card/H.Ellison
Organization: Eastern Michigan University
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 17:40:52 GMT

And yes, I do know how to spell "scandalous."  The news has yet to reach
my fingers however.

			-- Stewart "it's traditional for spelling flames
					to have mistakes in them anyway"
						Tame

****************************************************************************
 I understand it's obligatory to mention Kibo somewhere in one's postings.
****************************************************************************
		Email:  stame@emunix.emich.edu
****************************************************************************
Disclaimer:  Not only do my opinions represent those of Eastern Michigan
University, but also those of Dan Quayle, Richard Nixon, Frank Zappa,
Pee-wee Herman, Bart Simpson, Tipper Gore, Murphy Brown, Maggie Thatcher,
and the Easter Bunny.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books