From: cliftonr@netcom.com (Pope Clifton)
Subject: Re: Greens vs. Property Rights
Reply-To: 74170.3696@compuserve.com
Organization: t.b, t.p.d, & a.d
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 09:30:14 GMT

[posted for Karen, who _is_ getting to read all messages, though
usually lagged by at least one full day.]

In reply to message 180037.8487 from dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska)

Dean says:

> ... while it is true that the national Green organization moved
> to the left in some areas, it was a very democratic process.  It
> took years to put the program together, involved people from 
> around the country, and was finalized at a national gathering in 
> Colorado.  All Greens had plenty of opportunity to participate. 

Nope, Dean, we Hawai'i Greens didn't have an opportunity to
participate, because none of us had the money for airfare.  There
was no mechanism for small, distant and poor groups to participate. 
   
> It does seem that there are parts of the program that Karen does
> not like, which is not surprising since no document will ever
> satsify all people in a large group, especially one as diverse
> as the Greens.  Since Karen has posted here I assume she is still
> involved with some Greens.  I would like to here what 
> alternatives she would suggest for the parts of the program that
> she doesn't like.  Since the Greens have always believed in a
> consensus process, I hope we can work on these differences, 
> emphasize the agreements rather than the disagreements, and stay
> civil about it.

Dean, I'm State Membership Chair for the Hawai'i Green Party.  I've
been one of a core group of ten or so people that took the party
from 40 members to some 400 today.  I was also chair of the
platform committee.  Our platform is short and moderate.  It is
probably going to get shorter and even more moderate, since a large
part of our strength is a contingent of dissident Democrats.  I can
E-mail you the short version if you wish.  It fits on two sides of
a legal size sheet of paper, and doesn't say anything about
"democratic ownership and control."  (Nor does it parrot the Animal
Rights line, but that's another topic.)  

I appreciate your offer to try to resolve differences through the
consensus process.  I'm not sure what that means in practice, since
I don't see Hawai'i Greens as having the money or time to
participate in mainland politicking.  I am also pessimistic about
the possiblity of the national leadership ever listening to the
moderates.  

What makes me bitter about all this -- and I _am_ bitter -- is that
years of hard work on my part may be destroyed by words and actions
over which I have no control.  No matter how moderate our Hawai'i
group, we could be completely destroyed by any enterprising
reporter who publicized parts of the national platform.  Voters
would label us "socialist" and turn from us in disgust.  I am not
interested in being a member of an isolated and ineffective group
of true believers; I want to effect some real changes, soon.  At
the rate we are destroying our environment, such pragmatism is our
only chance.

--
cliftonr@netcom.com     Home: +1 808 521 9073  Work: +1 808 625 3234
Clifton Royston, Pope of the Church of the Subgenius in Paradise
"Some lives are like that." - attributed to Mark. Gooley