HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: Dracula Criticism
From: nelson@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (Jeffrey J. Nelson)
Date: 19 Nov 92 13:06:04 MST
Reply-To: nelson@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (Jeffrey J. Nelson)
 <1992Nov18.212106.26264@ra.msstate.edu> <flar.722137045@vincent2.iastate.edu>
Distribution: world,local

In article <flar.722137045@vincent2.iastate.edu>, flar@iastate.edu (Bradley M Armitage) writes:
> In <1992Nov18.212106.26264@ra.msstate.edu> aw1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Andrew Wargo) writes:
> 
>>In article <1992Nov18.121455.3998@arizona.edu> nelson@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (Jeffrey J. Nelson) writes:
>>>In article <18NOV92.17391311@vax.clarku.edu>, rgoldberg@vax.clarku.edu writes:
>>>> [trendy thing to do is hate FFC's Dracula]

I wrote:
>>>Based on the fact that many of the critics has supported their
>>>beliefs, some in great detail....
>>>
>>>Movie sucked.
>>>			- Jeff

>> I can list off the top of my head 300 people who loved the movie.
>                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That's an aweful lot of names... do you know their phone numbers also?


>>I was one of them. Now, for Jeff here...The movie may have sucked to you 
>>and a lot of other people..that's dandy. But, by posting your unqualified
>>article, you quite obviously are unaccustomed to the idea of allowing a 
>>differing opinion to even quietly drift by your head. So, in the future,
>>please continue to post your unqualified articles.

You obviously missed the humor... Besides this is a contradiction
with the first article.  First I am accused of saying I hated the movie
because everyone else hated it, now you say I disagree with
everything I see. :)

My point was merely that people HAVE been supporting their
views, not just saying "I agree, movie sucked" without saying why.
Many of the criticisms have been greater than 2 pages.

As for actual reasons why I didn't like it.
1.  Expected a version MUCH closer to Stoker
2.  K. Reaves
3.  Mina love affair
4.  Origin of Dracula was stupid
5.  FFC should not try to do humor, not even sure he *meant*
    to do humor
6.  Makeup, effects, visuals too choppy.  That is to say, some of
    it was good, but transitions were bad.
7.  Plot?
8.  Sound track could have been substantially better
9.  Character development?

FFC is *capable* of an incredible Dracula movie, this was not one.
 

|> Ok, lets talk unqualified, stating that you can name 300 people, off the
|> top of your head, is as unqualified as you get.  I just flat don't
|> believe you, not calling you a fibber, just exaggerating to make your
|> point.

Further, proof by authority is useless.  Einstein hated quantum mechanics
so should we throw it out?  More than a billion people in China
practically live off rice, should everyone?  We can all have opinions,
but it is the facts which are important.

Movie sucked.
				- Jeff


Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: mcdonghj@unix2.tcd.ie (Nascent Virion.....)
Subject: 4 alt.feminism maybe : -)
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 11:30:48 GMT

In <By5688.Cp6@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> branwen@sage.cc.purdue.edu ( ) writes:


>      You asked why female vampires are always portrayed as voluptuous
>sensuous creatures.  The reason is simple.  We live in a world that has
>been created by men, with a history that has been written by men.  It is
Yeah... life is like that. It's a hard life 4 us gels.
However one thing I did notice is that Vampires are made out to be 
beautiful and sensuous creatures be they male or female. I mean
almost all of the characters in ANne Rices novels are beautiful.
They become that way....


>      As far as why you don't see any "women like that around here" the
>answer is equally simple.  Women like that don't spend a lot of time in the
>computer lab.  They have dates.
Good Call. 
I don't agree with it however. I met my beautiful partner via e-mail...
>                                                      Karen
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-Jean Mc Donagh.                   ~~                         {Nascent Virion}
mcdonghj@unix2.tcd.ie              ~~         "I dress my tears in costumes.."
				   ~~
"I was happy in the haze of a drunken hour 
 but heaven knows I'm miserable now"				  --The Smiths
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: jordag@cary102.its.rpi.edu (Lord of the Vampyres)
Subject: Re: Looking for SWFV
Reply-To: jordag@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 19:38:47 GMT

be careful what you ask for you just may get it. but then again that 
would be interesting to say the least.
 
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: Gocek.Henr801C@Xerox.COM (The Peacemaker)
Subject: Don't move alt.vampyres
Reply-To: Gocek.Henr801C@Xerox.COM
Organization: Xerox
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:34:43 GMT


Geez, alt.vampyres is exactly where it should be.  Don't change it to
alt.horror.vampyres.  If you want to make hierarchies, go to rec or comp.
alt.vampyres is getting 30 or 40 articles a day.  Everyone is happy.
Undead, but happy.

Gary


Newsgroups: alt.vampyres,alt.horror
From: jarnolde@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (John Arnolde)
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: Lestat Movie
Date: 16 Nov 92 15:06:48 GMT
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, University of Wisconsin

In article <1992Nov16.005142.1@acad.drake.edu> tdl001@acad.drake.edu writes:
>	This talk of a Lestat movie is all very interesting.....From what I've
>heard and read a Lestat screenplay DOES exist and Sting reportedly has agreed
>to play the lead role. Fact or fiction? Truth or rumor? Or just one of those
>things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......................
>
>Buffy


Most likely with all the hype for Dracula that's out now a Lestat movie will
probably follow quickly if it's going to be done at all. I think we'll see
a lot vampire type themes coming out. I saw Dracula this weekend, I like it.
I think people that come in cold on vampires will not like it, but those of
us who already love the idea of vampires will like the movie.
From: osiris@crash.cts.com (James Lanaghan)
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: Lestat Movie
Date: 17 Nov 92 07:30:39 GMT
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA

In <1992Nov16.150648.17491@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> jarnolde@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (John Arnolde) writes:

>Most likely with all the hype for Dracula that's out now a Lestat movie will
>probably follow quickly if it's going to be done at all. I think we'll see
>a lot vampire type themes coming out. I saw Dracula this weekend, I like it.
>I think people that come in cold on vampires will not like it, but those of
>us who already love the idea of vampires will like the movie.

I have to agree with you there some people at work, how have seen it don't
like it, but everyone I know that are Vampire fans, myself included,
absolutely loved it, and I plan to see it again.
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: ahughes@jarthur.claremont.edu (The Fool)
Subject: Re: A Vampire's teeth
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 06:06:38 GMT

In article <92322.230619JAL137@psuvm.psu.edu> Jon Leistiko <JAL137@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>Greetings...
>     The question is: What is the nature of vampire fangs (hollow or normal)?
>     Personal belief: Normal (and non-retractable too - they just stay there
>                      all the time.). The fangs puncture, are withdrawn, and
>                      the vamp sucks at the wound (this is one of the few
>                      things that I actually _liked_ about _INNOCENT_BLOOD_ -
>                      I liked the no-fangs-just-rip-their-throats-out approach
>                      to feeding - Very brutal...
>     Take Care, All...
>                      - Jonathan

Hmmm. Just rip it out? Never saw the movie, but sounds pretty damned
inneficient to me. Waste an awful lot of the blood. Most creatures that feed
strictly on blood seem to have some way of controlling the blood flow.

I am curious as to where this hollow fang idea comes from. I've never heard of
it off the net. Anybody know the original source myth, or is it another of
these modern innovations?

				The Fool
				    ;-)
From: v105r6we@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (VAMPIRE)
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: re:Mainstream Vampire Music
Date: 17 Nov 92 05:59:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


     How about "of Wolf and Man" by metallica, sounds like its about
werewolves, but could apply to vampires as well.

                                        Da Blisster
.........................................................................
      It's the end of the world as we know it...
      and I feel fine.
.........................................................................
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: branwen@sage.cc.purdue.edu ( )
Subject: Eric the super annoying
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 21:35:08 GMT

      I just noticed that a majority of the past 35 letters/posts that I read
were written by a person name Eric somethingorother.  His login/site name
starts out werewolf.  I just want to address something to his attention:

      Stay the fuck off the board unless you are going to further the discussion
that you are responding to.  Every one of your posts have been sarcastic,
abusive, annoying, and downright repetitive when they are not one of the above.

      I am posting this to the board because I do not have a mailbox that I may
access, so pardon the intrusive nature of this post.  However, I have noticed
that people like Eric come along every couple of weeks or so and piss me off.
I wonder if others agree with me or not?

      And with that, I would like to suggest another topic (oh, btw, Flame on)
concerning vampires.  Are vampires impotent (as Rice claims) or are they 
up and ready, like FFC seems to believe (inferred from the Drac-Lucy coupling).
You see, at least in the 20th century, vampires and sex have been inseparable.

                                                            Glenn
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Monday, 23 Nov 1992 10:27:16 CST
From: <U16244@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: any info. on vamps
 <92325.112642U16244@uicvm.uic.edu> <=yG=lT@engin.umich.edu>

In article <=yG=lT@engin.umich.edu>, ferret@synecdoche.engin.umich.edu (kenneth
r lipka) says:
>
>        Very good and in-depth descriptions; no details lacking.  Good pacing,
>nice atmosphere, very well done.  Two things only I wish to say.
>        1)  What about religious symbols?
Well, religious symbols and holy water in themselves don't effect my
breed of vampire unless they're like a nice sharp piece of wood, and
of course, water naturally burns us like acid.  Rather, it is the amount
of religious strength, focused in hostiliy that wards us off.  If you
don't believe, then we take the crucifix and politely jam it sideways
down your throat (making nice, bloody openings for us to lap up blood
from if you're an enemy).
>and secondly,
>        2)  Oh puh-lease.
Well, considering that this is merely a legend passed on to me and mine
by a rather evil and twisted being ("Tepes", as he is named, or more
often "Dracula"), and since I am not an archeaologist, I'm merely
relaying the fact that my two brief meetings with Oriental dragons
(almost all other dragons have left the Earth for other parts of the
universe), they stated that we had similar blood and auras.
>Ken Lipka
>(if I lay to claim to any supernatural being it will not be a dragon-spawned
>vampire, rather it will be to being what spawned said undead)
Ah, but then, you'd have to post to alt.dragons. ;-)= (vampire smiley
mode on)

Terrence Wilcze, Vampire,
writing through the account of...
Douglas P. Wojtowicz.
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: covin@tartarus.uchicago.edu (David Covin)
Subject: Vampire Movies-- Fright Night (possible minor spoilers)
Organization: University of Chicago Computer Science
	<1992Nov19.213704.1383@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:05:27 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.213704.1383@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca> flindholm@mta.ca writes:

>   I didn't like Fright Night 2 quite as much as 1. While I agree that 2
>was pretty good, some parts were kind of silly (the bug man for example)

Oh.  I liked "the bug man."  Reminiscent of Renfield.  Ah, well.

I also particularly liked the nerd vampire.  "Bite her on the neck,
stupid!  You're supposed to bite her on the neck!"

>  I felt that No.1 was actualy more realistic when it comes to a modern
>vampire trying to maintane a low profile. The vampire was a stay at home
>that acted like a good neighbor. Everyone (except Charlie) thought he
>was an O.K. guy. F.N. 2 had the vampire showing herself on national T.V.
>and living in a penthouse suite which had constant parties.

"Hide in plain sight"?  This was what she did, and she did it very
well indeed.  To the point where she could show herself as a vampire,
even kill in public, and no one would believe or be able to prove that
it was for real.

Just a different way of hiding.  Arguably, one highly suited to modern
society. 

--
David Covin                           covin@despair.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: branwen@sage.cc.purdue.edu ( )
Subject: Re: Dracula Criticism
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 05:35:11 GMT

      Someone has just said that they did not feel the movie was acurately
titled by calling it Bram Stoker's Dracula.  I beg to differ.  Let's get to
the actual semantics of the wording.
      First, there can be no Dracula other than Stoker's.  You see, Stoker
copywrited his book and, consequently, the nam,e of the title character.
Dracula is and always will be Stoker's.  Therefore, the movie is acurately
titled as Bram Stoker's Dracula.  
      Second, the movie is in fact about Bram Stoker's Dracula.  It is not about
a vampire created by Coppola.  He used Stoker's creature in creating his
movie character.  So calling it FFC's Dracula would have been both inaccurate
and illegal, in the sense of copywrite laws.
      I will accept the claim that Coppola was not entirely faithful to the
Dracula and the storyline that was created by Stoker, but since he did not
title his movie *Dracula by Bram Stoker* he does not have to.  The movie is not
by Stoker, it is by Coppola.  It is about Stoker's Dracula.
      Nuff said.
                                                     Glenn

Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: ses52823@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Marius   )
Subject: Re: Lestat Movie
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 02:22:12 GMT

ieya@byron.u.washington.edu (Morpheus Laughing) writes:

>i seriously doubt it. according to an interview promoting the new book,
>AR has written several screenplays taht went nowhere and she's given up on
>the project completely

>ieya

>-- 
>corey w nelson		|  EGO PROJECT NUMBER II: a goth/som zine
>keeper of the Sisters	|  mail me to sign up for the electronic  
>of Mercy FAQ, DISCOG	|  version. issue 2 out Oct 5. featuring interview

Actually, I had heard Anne Rice was NOT the author of the approved
screenplay... But I did read the interview for *Tale of the Body Thief*
and if there is any credence to what I posted earlier, she certainly
won't be writing it...

Marius
********

Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: battlec@cs.rpi.edu (Clark Battle)
Subject: Re: Dracula Criticism
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:50:16 GMT

In article <18NOV92.17391311@vax.clarku.edu>, rgoldberg@vax.clarku.edu writes:
|> Why are people so pathetic?  And this is not meant to criticize anyone 
|> personally or to say that FFC's Dracula was the best movie of all time or 
|> anything.  But it seems like it's the trendy thing to do to anticipate this 
|> movie as if it were the Second Coming, and then to say it was the worst piece 
|> of trash ever after seeing it.  Kind of like when it becomes trendy to 
|> criticize trendiness.  Or when people want to look "different" so they pierce 
|> various body parts, dye their hair various colors, and wear MC's with 
|> white-out all over them, so they all end up looking the same!  Which is not to 
|> say that such a look is not appealing, either... it's just that it seems like 
|> it's becoming "cool" to criticize the film, to be like, "Well, I'm a REAL 
|> vampire fanatic, so of course it couldn't live up to MY expectations" kind of 
|> thing.  I happened to adore the movie, some people might not, whatever.  But 
|> I'm sure tyhis bulletin could be put to much better use than WHINING about 
|> it!!!

I have to agree.  I loved the movie and read the book.  Why is it that
fans of a genre are so unsupportive of the films.  Dune fans were disappointed
by the movie as were Batman fans.  These movies were not made to live up
tho the expectations ov a select MINORITY of genre fanatics but to entertain
the masses (eg: MASS media).  If FFC decided to tell the tale in his own
way that's his prerogative.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:27:57 EST
From: <THN107@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: Forever Knight question
 <1992Nov12.174819.1554@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>

_Forever Knight_ came back as a series without Rick Springfield-  The second
episode of the tv series has Nick stabbing Lacroix and then Lacroix bursting
into flames-  Nick does this because Lacroix will continually stand in his
way of becoming a mortal-  Not only this but Lacroix bites the woman Nick
loves/ the anthropoligist from the made-for-tv-movie-  The woman makes Nick
bite her because she doesn't want to be like Lacroix-  The episode ends with
her floating at the window in a vampire state/ fangs and all-

Sorry for the odd punctuation but my keyboard is malfunctioning-  I can't
use dots or commas-


-T
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: gip207@sci.kun.nl (gip2 course)
Subject: Chelsea Quinn Yarbro
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Distribution: world, public
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 12:24:17 GMT

After reading the recommendations to Yarbro's Saint-Germain series on this news-
group I decided to order them (since it seems they didn't sell well over here
and so were no longer in stock). This way I found out it would be difficult to
get them because some of them might be out of print and after about a month I
found out that `Hotel Transilvania' at least is out of print, I'm still waiting
on news for the rest of the books.
Now I'm wondering, is there any chance there will be a new edition of her books
forthcoming or are they selling bad enough that the publishers would decide not
to bother anymore.....
Any rumours etc. would be appreciated..

			-Yours Untruly,
				Jos V. (gip207@sci.kun.nl)
.
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
From: haro@triton.unm.edu (..KANEDA..)
Subject: OBSESSION OR JUST KIDDING?
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 05:51:20 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Distribution: all

HA HA HA
I have a friend of mine convinced that I am a vampire, the poor girl.
A she never sees me during the day.
Whenever she tries her protective tricks, I tell her that it's because she
invited me into her house, and she is powerless.
She know I hate garlic.
I told her I live in the desert so I don't have to cross running water.
"But you are dark complected." she says.  I tell her that it is a permanent sun burn.
The funny thing is, she keeps telling me to bite her, so I move in and she 
quickly moves away and gets this funny look in her eyes.
The oter funny thing is that she BIT ME, and drew blood like a mother!
Now, she hates the sun and all that.
A Baptisim of Blood I guess.
Talk about a psych job!

RICK
From: raven@Nocturne.Boulder-Creek.CA.US (System Ninja)
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: Eric the super annoying
Keywords: vampire sex
Date: 21 Nov 92 09:44:26 GMT
Organization: "The Enclave" -- Boulder Creek, California

branwen@sage.cc.purdue.edu ( ) writes:

>       And with that, I would like to suggest another topic (oh, btw, Flame on
> concerning vampires.  Are vampires impotent (as Rice claims) or are they 
> up and ready, like FFC seems to believe (inferred from the Drac-Lucy coupling
> You see, at least in the 20th century, vampires and sex have been inseparable
> 
>                                                             Glenn
> 

This depends, as I see it, upon the interpretation by a particular
author, director, etc.  Stoker used vampirism as a metaphor for the
Victorian fear of sex and venereal disease (a thread furthered in
the FFC movie, BTW), yet though the blood exchange with Mina, etc., 
was definitely sexual (driving the stake into Lucy was VERY sexual
-- go read it, you'll see), but we see no REAL sex in Stoker's novel.
You'd expect this.  Bram Stoker was a sexually repressed man in 
very prudish society.  To talk about sex, he had to cloak it in
parables of good and evil and morality and virtue.

Rice's vampires are undeniably sexual in form, if not in fact.
For my own fiction, I allow my vamps to be very sexual, though
often only to lure a meal for the evening.  (The vampire
Weyland in Suzy McKee Charnas' *The Vampire Tapestry* lures
young men and women this way, with entreaties of sexual 
congress.  A very good book, BTW.)  Consider oral sex for a moment:
in the case of fellatio, a great deal of blood flows through
the engorged, erect penis.  Seems a natural feeding site, to
me.  (Who used that?  Oh yeah, the book is *Live Girls*.  Don't
recall the author -- oh, Ray Garton!  Excuse my stream of 
consciousness.)

Going back to Eastern European superstition and vamp mythology
-- a subject often very distinct and different from literary or
cinema vampires -- it was believed that male vampires could impregnate
mortal women who would then bear children who, after their mortal
death, would be resurrected as *nosferatu*.  Meanwhile, though, 
during their mortal lives, they had unusual powers not unlike 
those of a sorcerer (often they were male, though this could 
just be the reports/tales, skewed in a sexually less-enlightened
age), and would often be called upon to stalk and stake their
unearthly undead fathers.  Nice kids, huh?  (Whatever happened
to respect for one's parents/elders--?  Never mind.)

My view of this sexual question regarding vampires is that it
all depends upon what the shaper of the myth or story is striving
for, what effect is hoped for.  And really, vampire mythos is rich
and varied, so there's room aplenty for many differing interpreta-
tions.

BTW -- be kind to one another.  Just because we may discuss evil
vampires in this newsgroup, that's no reason for us to *act* like
them...

-- Raven

----------
raven@Nocturne.Boulder-Creek.CA.US (System Ninja)
"The Enclave" -- Boulder Creek, California -- +1 408 338-9754
From: melchar@west.darkside.com (Melchar)
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres
Subject: Re: Other vampires?
Date: 19 Nov 92 22:04:40 GMT
Organization: The Dark Side of the Moon +1 408 245 SPAM

> 
> And besides, thousands of people disappear within the United States, and
> yet, there aren't intensive searches for them.  Perhaps someone is
> hiding something.  Perhaps someone who spends a lot of time on this
> list...
> 
> Doug.
> 
     Thousands of folks might disappear, but if you're postulating that 1 
vamp must kill 1 person p night, there can be no more than...say a dozen 
of them haunting the night -- and travelling continuously cross-country 
to pick off the folks who disappear (who aren't vanishing from only one 
location).  & this doesn't count looking for shelter come morning.  The 
idea that _anyone_ could do this ... so consistantly ... and never miss 
a kill is pretty impressive.
    I personally think there'd be much more chance that someone with this 
kind of time on their hands would found a free blood-testing/selling 
clinic that'd also buy blood.  The faculty could test the blood for 
purity, there wouldn't be bodies layering the ground & the excess could 
be marketed to hospitals.  It might not make a profit, but it could 
possibly pay for the upkeep & salaries of day-time personnel.
Newsgroups: alt.vampyres