HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tedrick@whistle.Berkeley.EDU (Tom Tedrick)
Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.war,soc.culture.german,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: RE - Crowely's Sign (Guderian, Manstein)
Followup-To: alt.magick,soc.culture.german,rec.arts.books
Date: 1 Sep 1992 05:18:20 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: whistle.berkeley.edu

<<Someone ought to translate into English those of Guderian's works
<<which have only appeared in German.

<Actually, Guderian in the '50s put out what was reputedly to be an 
<excellent work called "Panzer Leader" which was released in English.

"Panzer Leader" is one of the all time great war books, but as far as
I know it was the only one of Guderian's works to be translated into
English (I was hoping someone would be inspired to translate some of
the others so I could read them :-)

I believe there was a book "Achtung! Panzer!" written by Guderian in
the early 1930s which was never translated into English, along with
the following books listed in our library catalogs:

"Mit den panzern in ost and west ..." (1942)
"Die panzerwaffe ..." (1943)
"Die Panzertruppen ..." (1944)
"Kan Westeuropa verteidigt werden" (1950)
"So geht es nicht!" (1951)

Maybe someone could publish the complete works of Heinz Guderian
translated into English or something.

<I would have to rank Erich Manstein as possibly the greatest armour 
<warfare strategist ... 

No doubt the greatest practitioner. Unfortunately he didn't write
much. "Lost Victories" seems to be the only thing he wrote which
was translated into English, and it was condensed from the German
version.

Manstein also wrote:

"Aus einem Soldatenleben ..." (1958)
"Die Deutsche Infantrie, 1938-1945 ..." (1967)

It would be great to have them available in English.

There seems to be a large number of other German war books
which might also be profitably translated into English.

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shava@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Shava Nerad Averett)
Subject: Re: Working in Groups
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 00:28:34 GMT

In article <17gvqoINNb8r@early-bird.think.com> cward@Think.COM (Christopher) writes:
>I've seen a number of Rosicrutian-by-mail advertised.  I'd be interested in
>seeing you post who you dealt with.  What you were looking for and why that
>group fell short of your needs.

I tried the San Jose AMORC folks' by-mail stuff, and found that it was 
much more expensive than buying and working thru a reasonable amount of,
say, prometheus_rising and angel_tech and a random cunningham book, which
would have probably given me the same material.  I'd recommend to people
who are interested in Rosacrucians that they find a group in their area
(they have lodges -- coed -- something like Masons) and approach them.

If you're ever in the San Jose area, though, it's worth joining just to
have access to the library at the AMORC HQ, which is a generally marvelous
facility.  The library is small but exceptionally choice.  I could have
spent weeks there...!

-- 
Shava Nerad Averett				shava_averett@unc.edu
/*  all materials (c)1992, Shava Nerad Averett, and have nothing significant
    to do with the University of North Carolina, a mostly owned subsidiary 
    of the NC Legislature, a mostly owned subsidiary of the DOT.      */
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Subject: Maagic(k) Spell(ing)s
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 23:21:09 +0000

mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes..

>In article <guest.48@dhhalden.no>, guest@dhhalden.no (.GJEST) writes:
>|>
>|> Someone please tell me; whats the difference between 'magic' and 'magick'?
>|>
>|> G.H.

>For about 100 years conjurers and stage artists have used the word
>"magic" to describe their illusions.

>"Magick" is usually used to refer to something other than
>slight-of-hand tricks.

^^^^^^

Er. I was under the impression that was 'sleight of hand' actually
Robert....:-)

>--
>  Robert E. McGrath
>  Urbana Illinois
>  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu

Some fucking peasant (sorry pedant)
:-)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Subject: Re: Empathic question
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 08:15:19 +0000

I believe that if tow people who are close, and who have allowed
themselves to get close, get upset with each other, then the more
selfish one will emerge a clear winner in the hurt stakes. Some
people call that kind of selfishness maturity.

One certainly develops it with the agony of failed relationships. I
think it is a sad, but necessary thing, needed to defend oneself from
people who cannot handle closer relationships.

Either you accept the 'public domain' view that maturity = hard
boiled selfishness, and wishful thinking and empathising with the
opposite sex is a sign of neurotic adolsescence, or you feel that
something rather rare and precious gets lost as people learn to 'grow
up'.


Perhaps one does both. Perhaps that is the attraction that innocent
children have for child abusers. Who knows......

Just wondering...
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: sekhmet
Date: 4 Sep 1992 15:07:07 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

Is anyone familiar with a book called _The Goddess Sekhmet, Psycho-Spiritual
Exercises of the Fifth Way_, by Robert Masters?  The exercises looked good
but the rest of it struck me as egotistical and a little bit silly.  Any
opinions on whether the exercises are worth working through?

Does anyone have any other information on Sekhmet?  From what I remember
reading in other sources, I thought she was a pretty minor goddess, but
she always interested me for some reason.

Dawn
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Subject: Re: Unicursal Hex + Thoth Tarot
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 23:03:32 +0000


I thought it was just a sort of manufaturers extra - like the card
you sometimes get that has the manufacturers logo on it. In this case
it was the OTO logo or something.

I certainly never used it for anything.
From: cward@Think.COM (Christopher)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Working in Groups
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:11:17 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: galaxy.think.com

In article <13492.2a9930a2@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu>, cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
|> Please excuse my ignorance, but what are your definitions of 'mysticism'
|> and 'magic/occult'?   I can see the 'logic' in the mystical path being
|> a solitary one (using many different concepts of 'mysticism'), but why
|> is it better to do 'magic' in a group?  Not all systems of magic are
|> designed for posturing Victorians playing initiatory power games!  :-)

The mystic path is one straight up the Tree of Life.  It's goal is not the
acquisition of "magical powers" but union with the Divine (Ain Sof).  This
path is highly personal and its workings very much internal.  It seems to
work quite well for Introvert iNtuitive types.  Basic mode of operation:
meditiation.

The occult or magic(k) path follows the Path of Return (reversal of the 
Lightning Strike).  It is more concerned with the using and balancing of 
powers, hence the acquisition of "magical powers".  The goals do nto seem
as lofty as ones espoused by mystics but I suspect that has more to do with
the personalities involved than the path chosen.  It seems to work better
for Extrovert Sensate types.  Basic mode of operation: group ritual

Of course, these are the most gross generalities...

|> Any ideas of which correspondence courses to try?  I could scan the back
|> of _Gnosis_ magazine for some ideas....

I've done that myself, but what I really was aiming for here is to share
actual experience.  Kind of like a book review.

I'll put together some addresses and start another thread.

|> I'm in the 'disdain' camp for the most part.  However, the groups that are
|> stable enough, and long-lived enough, to publish their 'knowledge' are
|> very useful for me - for 'raw material' to shape and mold in my own
|> practice!

Care to share specifics you've found good/bad?

--Christopher
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Shielding <was: Re: Empathic question>
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 05:21:34 GMT


Eddie posted three very nice visualisations for shielding.  I will give them to
students of mine, but I will never use them myself.  Why?  Because I am
Tactile/Kinesthetic rather than visual.  This is not a put down toward Eddie,
but I felt it important to point out that the visual methods are not the only
methods.  Unfortunately, they are the only ones anybody writes about.  This is
probably partly because they are much easier to describe, but there is an
unfortuante prejudice toward sight in books on magic.  Many of them, including
most of the books I respect most, state categorically that the skill you *have* to learn is visualisation.  I have a friend who has called down thunderstorms
on a number of occasions, but was unable to visualise well enough to remember
what her lover's face looked like.  So much for the necessity of visualisation.

So, the next question is how can Tactile/Kinesthetic folk shield themselves?
(I'll leave it for someone else to address Auditory-based shielding.)  Tactile/
Kinesthetic persons perceive magical energy as sensations of heat, cold,
pressure, movement, electrical charge, texture, resilience, etc.--all of the
different senses of touch.  Not all T/K persons will experience things in all
of these ways.  (I, for example, tend to be on the Kinesthetic end of the
spectrum, rather than Tactile.)  Each person who finds that T/K is the natural
mode for hirself should take some time to think about *how sie perceives
energy*.  When you have done that, think about what sorts of feelings you have
in spaces which are safe and loving, and what you perceive in spaces where you
are not comfortable.  Also, take time to be aware of what gives you energy, 
and how it feels when you have it.  

Once you've done the prep work, do whatever it is that puts you in high energy
space, and draw lots of that energy into yourselves.  Take that energy and 
attune it to the feelings of safety; surround yourself with that energy.  Make
sure you connect that energy with *yourself* (or the place, if that is your
intent) so that it will stay where it is needed.  As Eddie said, repeat this
frequently to help it become very solid.  This is, of necessity, a more vague
description than Eddie's--we don't have detailed language for T/K perception.
One general trait is that the "safety" energy generally feels warm, not cool
or hot.

I hope this helps folks.

              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Date: Fri,  4 Sep 1992 10:17:46 -0400 
From: Kerwin Yap Chua <kc3u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Any other Akkadians out there?
	<1992Sep3.131534.10946@ddsw1.mcs.com>

Thanks:  info extremely helpful, but I'd like to know if there is
anything _modern_ about usage of Akkadian magic and rituals.  The
Necronomicon is not to be trusted, in any sense of the word.  I have not
been able to find any contemporary works on the subject.  Thanks again.

Kendrick Kerwin Chua

kc3u@andrew.cmu.edu
Cthulhu for President, 1992!
Newsgroups: alt.magick,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish
From: chrism@cirrus.com (Chris Metcalfe)
Subject: Re: Crowley's Significance? (Hitler)
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.  Fremont, California
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:58:59 GMT

In article <l9slajINNtc@west.west.sun.com> markk@sagredo.West.Sun.COM (Mark Kampe) writes:
>Now wait just a minute.  You can bad-mouth Hitler all you want (or Reagan
>for that matter) but where do you get off painting Aleister Crowley with the
>same brush?
>
>Crowley felt that his purpose in life was to help others find their own.
>He was actually much closer to Herman Hesse than he was to Adolf Hitler.
>He was a rare blend of nineteenth century discipline, scholarship and 
>romanticism.  We will not see his like again soon.  
>
>If you want to judge a teacher, judge him by his desciples ... did you ever 
>hear Krishnamurti speak or read any of his work.  The "sage of Ojai" was 
>selected and raised by Anne Bessant (who left London after Crowley's death) 
>... and if Krishnamurti was an example of Crowley/Theosophy training, our
>world could use many more like him.
>
>
>Towards "the one" ...
>
>	---mark---

However, Crowley admitted that it was one of his ideas, transmitted through
a deciple, that the Germans use the Swastika as the emblem of National
Socialism (because it would be empowering).  See, "The Magician of the
Golden Dawn," a biography of Crowley.

Crowley was highly unstable, and managed to injure most of the people
that he came in contact with, usually through sex and drugs.

If you want to study this kind of thing, stay with A.E. Waite.  Better
yet, look for "empowering knowledge" in Kant or Spinoza.

-- Chris Metcalfe
From: owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Another Crowley question
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:31:01 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.221952.11453@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes:
> This whole thing is way off the original topic, so I suggest we drop
> it.
> 
> I still say AC was a miserable human being who abused, exploited, 
> cheated, and deceived his friends.  I will revise that opinion
> in the light of better information about his life, which the
> flame-masters have consistently omitted to provide.


Excuse me but lets get real here.
You *suggest* *we* drop it , and then you finish off with a rehash of
your original diatribe, capped with this gem about *flame-masters*.

*I* suggest that a better reason to "drop it" is that you  have
consistently abused, exploited, cheated and deceived the others here.


POX ./. owen

--
D. Owen Rowley {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen

  " It will be a cold March 17th that I celebrate the imposition of
	Romes rule, on Pagan Ireland. Erin go ppphhhhhttttttt! "
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: friday@netcom.com (Carol Anne Ogdin)
Subject: Re: Learning Styles
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 20:46:10 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In <17ijogINNb5t@early-bird.think.com> cward@Think.COM (Christopher) writes:


>  Visual -
>
>  Audio -
>
>  Kinesthetic -

(Now, wrenching the topic back onto alt.magick...)

Great shades of NLP, Christopher (the modalities are a fundamental part
of NLP, and the source of its greatest contribution, submodalities, which
are about how to change those pictures, sounds and feelings while they're
in motion...about which more later).

This is all crucial and important to practitioners of various kinds of
magick, because we *do* communicate.  The skill with which we can elicit
information (from ourselves, our environment, other people, the ineffable)
directly determines, in my opinion, the effectiveness of what we do.  I've
seen terrific mages who couldn't speak and were confined to wheelchairs...
but, wow, could they communicate!  Being able to notice what others are
not trained to notice, to intervene where others are not able to intervene
is a significant source of the power of every single Magick Practitioner
I've ever seen.
-- 
---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---   ---
    - Friday -                   "If a miracle happens in your vicinity--
      friday@well.sf.ca.us                            take credit for it!"
      (Carol Anne Ogdin)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: guest@dhhalden.no (.GJEST)
Subject: Magic/magick/midget/maggot???
Organization: Ostfold College
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:38:33 GMT


Someone please tell me; whats the difference between 'magic' and 'magick'?

G.H.		
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: spb0457@zeus.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Subject: Re: Unicursal Hexagram
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 07:15:00 GMT

Shawn Clayton Knight writes...
>the large Thoth deck was bought for me by a friend.  it has Big cards. 
>The standard major and minor arcana, but 2 extras - the blank card and
>the "Crowley card", which apparently wasn't released in the (older?)
>small version of the deck.
>it is totally black, no border, only the large red unicursal hexagram
>set with what seems to be a 5-petaled flower.
>-shawn

+---------------------------------------SubG----------------------------------+
To take a SWAG, I'd guess that this is something that the printers threw in.
Mayhaps there's a universal printer's union that dictates that at least two
"jokers" be included in every deck of cards sold this side of the Veil.

In any case, I sincerely doubt that, from your description, this could be
described as a "Crowley card;"  is sounds too plain by half to have sprung
from Uncle Al's head.  Maybe if all the petals were Yod shaped or if the
bars of the hexagram were inscribed with esoteric Greek aphorisms or some
such I would buy into the "Crowley card" theory.

Of course, I could be way off base on this;  like I've said, I've never seen
or, for that matter, even heard of the card in question.

I really can't see why Crowley would even throw a seventy-ninth card into the
Tarot unless, in his latter years he was trying to immortalize himself in the
production of a new Major Arcana.  This would also posit that ol' Frater P. was
then considering himself the personification of one of the Powers (I'll burden
the word with the cap to duck under searching for a better word.  Nice thing
about logology--capitalize a completely mundane word and it'll summon up images
of spirits, starshine and the wah-dee-do-da), as it was his (stated, anyway)
opinion that all the Trumps are entities while all the lesser cards are
insensate forces (or Forces, if you want to make things more exciting).




Yours etc.,





SubGenius

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: spb0457@zeus.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Subject: Re: Unicursal Hexagram AND Thoth Tarot
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 00:39:00 GMT

Shawn Clayton Knight <knightster+@CMU.EDU> writes...
>I also have Crowley's deck, and I was wondering what yinz all think of
>his Unicursal Hexagram card (black w/ a Red Uni. hexagram and 5-petaled
>flower).
>Do you use it in readings?  if so, what's it represent?
>Just wanted all your opinions on how *you* use it.
>-shawn

+----------------------------------------SubG-------------------------------+
The years must be telling on me--I can't recall such a card.  The closest
thing to your description that I bring to mind is the Ace of Disks, which
features a unicursal HEPTagram (one of those toy sigils of the A.A., that)
and assorted other fooferah.

D'you know what position this card you've described occupies in the deck?









I was young and
foolish then,
I feel old and
foolish now,
Yours etc.,






SubGenius
From: u9038752@cc.uow.edu.au (roger bolton)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: AAustralian O.T.O address wanted
Date: 28 Aug 92 03:49:54 GMT
Organization: University Of Wollongong

A while back, I recieved an address for contacting the O.T.O in oz, but
seem to have misplaced it, if someone could dig it up for me again I would
vastly appreciate it.
thanks
eldritch
From: lyn@columbia.ksu.ksu.edu (Myself)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Emotion spells (not a request)
Date: 25 Aug 1992 11:55:25 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: columbia.ksu.ksu.edu
Summary: Why the repeated cautions?
Keywords: emotion, spells

  I have one major question. Why does everyone here disapprove so strongly of
emotional/empathy spells? This is, of course, not talking about safety and
precaution. Those are needed whatever you do. But, if these are so powerful,
why does everyone disapprove? After all, if (new) person A STATES that he/she/it
/whatever WANTS to do this, and has a reasonable idea of the consequences, why
should I noit help them, assuming that it is my desire to do so? After all, if
you avoid everything simply because it is dangerous, you can`t step out of your
house, you might slip, fall, and splatter your breains on the pavement. Of
course, the roof might fall if you stay inside. Weighted risks. Admittedly, the
risks in such a situation are higher, but so is the potential gain. 'nuff said.
Anyone who wants to argue, please do so.

p.s. I HAVE used the type occasionally, and I have had it backfire only once.
	Doing this at a Nazi death camp is plain stupid. Any objections to it
	with proper precautions?
-- 
This was brought to you by Myself(lyn@matt.ksu.ksu.edu) who is all things here.
Head of Synergy Systems, a non-official group of aspiring hackers creating and
distributing software for the common good. Head office:Terra, Sol system. We
Flames accepted-and returned with interest and intelligence compounded.
From: markk@sagredo.West.Sun.COM (Mark Kampe)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Lost Keys of Fremasonry
Date: 1 Sep 1992 23:38:16 GMT
Organization: SunSoft South
NNTP-Posting-Host: sagredo.west.sun.com

fredj@wang.com (Fast Freddie) writes:
>>I have knowingly known a few high-degree masons.  While they were nice guys,
>>none of them impressed me as having made great progress towards the completion
>>of Hiram's labor.  Comeraderie ... yes.  Philanthropy ... yes.  Fraternity
>>... yes.  Spiritual growth, transformation and purification ...........
> 
> What makes you think that?

The high-degree masons I have known are nice guys but did not impress me with
their perceptiveness, receptiveness, dedication to continual self improvement,
interest in esoteric schools, ability to cut to the heart of complex matters,
or any of the other subtle and unsubtle traits that I have come to associate
with "enlightened masters".  It is quite possible that I had bad examples or 
just missed alot - and that is why I asked the question.

>>Is the spiritual path actually tended by a few 38+ degree wierdos who have 
>>long since learned that talking about it is alot like teaching a pig to sing?
> 
> First of all sir:  There are only 33 degrees in the scottish rite,
>                    There are only 12 degrees in the York rite.

I was aware of the 33 degrees of scottish rite, but not of the twelve degrees
of York rite.  I was sarcastically refering to secretly high degrees and 
carelessly omitted the :-) ... perhaps 99+ degree would have been a better
choice ... but in any case I stand corrected.

> Lastly the active Masons are some knowingly some unknowingly.

So
	(1) are there more spiritual lodges?

	(2) are they all spiritual and I've just missed it?

	(3) is the spiritual aspect just well hidden?
From: ijd@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Ian J Dickinson)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 08:37:33 GMT
Subject: Re: The pentagram
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: alt.magick


I seem to remember, although only vaguely, that there is at least one
method of geometrically constructing an accurate penta-{gram|cle|gon}. By
geometric I mean using a straight edge and a compass, rather than a ruler
and protractor. I had a go at trying to remember/re-invent it the other
evening, and failed.  Can anyone enlighten me?

Thanks,
Ian.


|Ian Dickinson    HP Labs Bristol (Knowledge Based Programming Dept)   England|
|Email: ijd@hplb.hpl.hp.com    | Enough if something from our hands have power|
|   These opinions are mine,   | To live and act and serve the future hour    |
|  and not (necessarily) HP's  |                                 - Wordsworth |