From: mcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mark A. Cochran)
Subject: Peter shows his ignorance, once again.
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Organization: Um, err... I *know* I saw it here a few days ago...
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 01:07:45 GMT

In article <nyikos.724963465@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>I was going to add "Was: Loren...dictator" but these subject lines tend to
>get squashed in the middle on my "index" [better term: table of contents], 
>rendering them unintelligible.
>
>Part 1 was not lableled as such, it's the thread where I took Mark to task for
>claiming that informed consent prior to abortions is a requirement, quoting
>from Chief Justice Burger, dissenting, in *Thornburgh*.  At the time I was
>not yet ready to accuse Mark of being a master of the Big Lie technique,
>but now I am.  The biggest piece of evidence will come in Part 3, coming
>your way soon.
>
>In <1992Dec17.180016.6709@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> mcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mark A. Cochran) writes:
>
>>In article <16DEC92.21143872@vax.clarku.edu> lfinkelstein@vax.clarku.edu writes:
>>>In a previous article, margoli@watson.ibm.com (Larry Margolis) wrote:
>>>>In <16DEC92.07023222@vax.clarku.edu> lfinkelstein@vax.clarku.edu writes:
>>>>>In a previous article, chall@eco.twg.com (Charles Don Hall) wrote:
>>>>>>In <14DEC92.21004172@vax.clarku.edu> lfinkelstein@vax.clarku.edu writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>An unfertalized egg, on it's own, left in it's environment, will not grow into
>>>>>>>a human adult.  A fertalized egg will.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Well, let's see...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>An unfertilized egg has a few different environments. It starts its
>>>>>>life in the ovaries, and later migrates through the fallopian tubes
>>>>>>and into the uterus. Now, the interesting thing about the uterus
>>>>>>is that it sometimes has sperm cells in it. Therefore, an unfertilized
>>>>>>egg, on its own, left in its environment, can in fact grow into a
>>>>>>human adult. It's not 100% certain, but it isn't 100% certain that
>>>>>>a given fetus will survive to adulthood either.
>>>>>
>>>>>That is why I specified the difference between a fertalized egg, and an
>>>>>unfertalized one.  An unfertalized egg will neververrow into a human adult.
>>>>>It may become fertalized, but then it wouldn't be unfertalized.
>
>Larry Margolis tells the truth below: he does hate to clue Loren
>in; so, rather than cluing him in, he regales us with his own brand
>of pseudoscience.  [Note in particular his substitution of "become" for
>"grow into."  Larry is a master of equivocation and subtle terminology
>shifts.]
> 
>>>>I hate to clue you in, but by the same reasoning a fertilized egg will
>>>>never develop into an adult, either.  It might become an embryo, but then
>>>>it wouldn't be a fertilized egg any more...
>
>Refusing to get sidetracked from "grow", Loren replies:
>
>>>Except the fertalized egg will grow into an embryo...adult.  There is a 
>>>difference between growing into something (fertalized egg -> Embryo), and 
>>>being changed into something by outside forces (unfertalized egg -> fertalized 
>>>egg)
>
>>*SIGH*
>
>Here it comes.  Note the masterly misdirection below.  Mark makes it look
>like he is rehabilitating Larry Margolis's pseudoscience, but if you
>read what he says carefully, Larry remains refuted.
>
>>Loren, have you ever taken a biology course? Do you know *anything*
>>about the biology of reproduction?
>
>Of course he does, he was just using the word "will" in somewhat
>nonstandard fashion, as in "the sun will rise tomorrow", which to be
>correct should read, "We will see something tomorrow that is conventionally
>referred to as the rising of the sun, even though it is an illusion due
>to the rotation of the earth, unless we are late in getting up, or it is
>cloudy, or..."
>
Except, of course, that the odds of the sun rising are roughly 100%,
while the odds of a fertilized egg actually implanting and developing
into a real person are no where near that high.

>>You statement above, in order to be correct, should read:
>>"Except the fertalized egg [your spelling. I'll be happy if you get
>>the biology correct. Somebody else can undertake to teach you to
>>spell] may, under circumstances which occur for perhaps one out of
>>three fertilized [correct spelling, since it's my word this time...]
>>egg, implant,
>
>Source, please, for the "one out of three" statistic.
>
Any text on obstetrics. Pick one, any one, and read it.

>> and begin the process by which it may (again, against
>>the odds) eventually become an embryo, a fetus,
>
>Source, please, for "against the odds".  I've seen this kind of talk
>bandied about for months in talk.abortion, all without a scrap of
>documentation.
>
Any text on obstetrics. Pick one, any one, and read it.

>> and (potentially and
>>eventually) a child."
>
>What does the word "potentially" mean in this context?
>
It means, quite obviously, that the z/e/f is only potentially a
child. I would have thought even your meager comprehension capable of
figuring that one out...

>And why do I not see flames against Larry for his pseudoscience, 
>nor Charles Don Hall for his gross understatement in re "not 100%"?
> 
>Could it be because Cochran does not give a hoot about correct
>information (despite his words below) and is only interested in
>seeing the pro-choice/pro-abortion/pro-abortionist faction win
>debates?
>
Since you are disputing my facts, care to post your medical
credentials? Or at least, post a source that contradicts me?
I doubt it...

>>Does anyone remember if Loren has ever posted an article which
>>contained any correct information?
>
>>--
>>                  Mark Cochran          merlin@eddie.ee.vt.edu
>>These are the views of my employer. They also represent the views of
>>your employer, your government, the Church of your choice, and the
>>Ghost of Elvis. So there.
>		 ^^^^^^^^
>He knows how to pout, too.  I thought at first he was Keith Cochran's
>kid brother because of this.  Turns out it's the other way around.
>
Oh how cute. Little Petey Ny is trying his hand at .sig flames.
Keep trying little boy. Maybe someday you'll be ready for the big
leagues.

--
                  Mark Cochran          merlin@eddie.ee.vt.edu
These are the views of my employer. They also represent the views of
your employer, your government, the Church of your choice, and the
Ghost of Elvis. So there.
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