HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: Re: Impropriety in soc.culture.tamil vote
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:39:16 GMT

In article <5y@byu.edu>, gritton@dent.caedm.byu.edu (Jamie Gritton) writes:
> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
> 
> >> There is NOTHING WRONG with the vote taker campaigning for his/her group 
> >> during the vote so long as they do not indicate how the vote is running. 
> 
> > It is interesting that you said this. This precisely was the ground on
> > which soc.culture.indian.american for which I conducted the voting was
> > knocked down. 
> 
>    Not so. I may not remember the exact wording, but the campaigning
> you did included something along the lines is "we're losing, so send
> your yes vote". 

That is absolutely wrong. I never indicated how the vote was going.
I did give the total number of votes cast but not how it was going.
There was never an indication that we were losing.
The message is still available on net records if anyone would like to 
reexamine it.

> The whole point was that you *did* indicate how the
> vote was going. 

That is precisely where you are mistaken. There was never and I repeat
once more , there never was any indication of how (lose or win) the vote 
was going. Why do you think I resisted the knocking down of this group
for several months ? Precisely because of this point that I did not indicate
how the vote was going.

> The soc.culture.tamil vote taker did not. 

How do you know ?

> You were guilty.  He is innocent. Get it?

Yes I got that you have a poor memory and a prejudiced mind.
I also got that you like the role of a self-appointed judge.

> 
> > I would like to see the emails of the votes before I accept the result.
> 
>    So don't accept the result. And let those who do accept the result
> have their group.

Nobody has stopped anybody from posting on it.

I am entitled to my doubts on it.

> 
> > What I would like to see is whether all these people whose net ids were
> > listed on the YES voters list, actually sent in their votes.
> > This is what I would like to check before I accept the result.
> 
>    You'll have to contact them all yourself. Even if you get all the
> emailed votes, what would make you believe *they* weren't merely
> forgeries?

That is a good question. We may still have have doubts left but at least
whatever can be checked was checked. If so many emails were forged,
it may show some where in the emails. It is not easy to forge hundreds
of emails correctly.

> 
>    I think it's time you gave it a rest.
> --

I don't think so. Sooner or later the truth will come out.

> James Gritton - gritton@byu.edu - I disclaim

Alok
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: guidelines for moderator replacement
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Date: 16 Aug 92 00:04:14 EST
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

In article <1992Aug15.070233.10300@amhux2.amherst.edu>, twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
> In article <0105011F.atmg7d@dragon.enigami.mv.com> cory@enigami.mv.com writes:
> 
>>Assuming that this [discussion] succeeds,
> 
> Oh, it will not.
> 
> I guarantee it.

	Or double our money back?
:)

Brett                                                      
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
Disclaimer:								   NOT!
From: bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Impropriety in soc.culture.tamil vote (Re: soc.culture.tamil
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:22:24 GMT
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.

derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne) writes:

>Oh no it's not.  The NET is not the United States of anywhere,  nor is it 
>bounded by the borders of the United States of America.

The people who are taking part the major part in this dispute all reside
within the borders of the United States.  The Internet is _not_ looked
upon as a legally separate entity; cyberspace it's not.
(Granted, I think it would be interesting if the Internet could join the
United Nations, but... it's a little too confusing still, and they started
letting morons on the net. Augh..)

-- 
 Jawaid Bazyar              |   Ask me about the GNO Multitasking Environment
 Procyon, Inc.              |   for the Apple IIgs!   
 bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu         |   P.O Box 620334
 --Apple II Forever!--      |   Littleton, CO 80162-0334   (303) 933-4649
From: dseal@armltd.co.uk (David Seal)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: changing a newsgroup's moderator (was: RFM: rec.arts.erotica)
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:49:21 GMT
Distribution: news
Organization: A.R.M. Ltd, Swaffham Bulbeck, Cambs, UK

In article <1992Aug11.220900.4331@daimi.aau.dk> rorschak@daimi.aau.dk
(Jesper Lauridsen) writes:

>jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens) writes:
>
>>Why "of course?"  An RFD to change the moderator of a newsgroup would
>>be INAPPROPRIATE in many moderated newsgroups, and therefore should
>>not be posted there.  For example, I have never allowed any
>>administrative postings of any sort in news.answers, and I hope never
>>to have to do so. 
>
>An RFD is inappropiate in ALL groups (expect a couple in news.* hirachy),
>moderated or not. Moderated groups are nothing special, their charters
>are not more sacred than those of other groups.

Or, putting it another way, and IMHO one that is closer to reality: *every*
group's charter should be deemed to allow administrative announcements about
that group, whether or not it explicitly says so. (Most don't.) This doesn't
mean *all* announcements, and certainly doesn't mean discussion of those
announcements. But announcements about the group itself are automatically
appropriate, whatever the actual wording of the charter: they *should* be
posted.

For instance, it is standard Usenet practice to post RFDs about
reorganisations to the groups being reorganised, and there have certainly
been complaints about failures to do so in the past. This is for the very
good reason that readers of the group should be told directly about possible
changes to the group: they shouldn't *need* to look anywhere else.

If (heaven forbid!) a proposal to reorganise news.answers were to come up, I
would certainly hope that Mr. Kamens would approve the RFD for news.answers:
the need for news.answers readers to know about the proposed change is IMHO
far more important than the need to keep the group free of administrative
postings. Similarly, I believe a proposal to unmoderate or change the
moderator of the group *should* be approved. It would also seem legitimate
to me for approval of such an article to be forged by someone authoritative
(e.g. the news.announce.newgroups moderator) in the case where the group
moderator just isn't responding, though I would definitely regard this as a
last resort.

David Seal
dseal@armltd.co.uk

All opinions are mine only...
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: bk233@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jack W. Weinmann)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.music.classical.guitar
Reply-To: bk233@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jack W. Weinmann)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 14:30:13 GMT


In a previous article, davidc@brahms.udel.edu (David Casper) says:

>This is a Request For Discussion for "rec.music.classical.guitar"

David, 
I also agree that the classical guitar deserves its own discussion group. 
I too regularly read alt.guitar and alt.guitar.tab, but feel that there
should be a group devoted to classical and, I would hope, flamenco guitar
information.

Since disciplines are similar, would it not be fit for any style of
acoustic finger-style playing?  Many people who fingerpick could gain a
great deal of insight from classically trained or disciplined guitarists.

I am already on the mailing list, but I feel that this group is a VERY good
idea and will cast my vote FOR it as soon as I see that a CFV is posted for
it.

Jack W. Weinmann    bk233@cleveland.freenet.edu
                               - or - 
                    jweinman@heartland.bradley.edu
                    (address used for mailing list)
From: dseal@armltd.co.uk (David Seal)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: changing a newsgroup's moderator
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:58:14 GMT
Distribution: news
Organization: A.R.M. Ltd, Swaffham Bulbeck, Cambs, UK

In article <1992Aug12.103709.42292@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>
sloane@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Bob Sloane) writes:

>In article <1992Aug11.161947.1593@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil>,
> bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann) writes:
>> 	An RFD for replacing the moderator goes *to that moderator*.  By
>> definition.  If at this point the moderator doesn't know what's going on, they
>> are either dead or ignoring their group and the moderation change should become
>> de facto.
>
>Actually, no, it probably wouldn't. The problem is that the RFD is
>posted to a moderated group, news.announce.newgroups.  If the n.a.ng
>moderator puts an Approved: header in the article and posts it, then
>it will not be emailed to the moderator of the group being changed, it
>will just show up in the group under discussion.

This can be solved if the original RFD is not posted to the group in
question (so the only moderated group it goes to is
news.announce.newgroups), but the news.announce.newgroups moderator emails a
copy to the contact address for the group concerned.

This has two benefits: it ensures that the moderator in question is informed
in a way he can only miss if he's not doing his job correctly, and it gives
him some protection from spurious calls to replace him.

It also may have the drawback of introducing an extra procedure for the
new.announce.newgroups moderator to follow. I say "may have" because I don't
know how RFDs and CFVs that relate to existing moderated groups are
currently handled. E.g. if an RFD is issued for a re-organisation that
involves a moderated group, what happens about approval? - does it go
through two moderators by some process like the one I've described, or does
it get approved by just one of them? (This happened in the case of the
rec.arts.sf-lovers re-organisation, in which the moderated group
rec.arts.sf-reviews was renamed to rec.art.sf.reviews, so presumably someone
knows how it works!)

David Seal
dseal@armltd.co.uk

All opinions are mine only...
From: jym@mica.berkeley.edu (Jym Dyer)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.transit
Date: 23 Aug 92 06:34:48 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: jym@remarque.berkeley.edu

=o= The newsgroup should be talk.transit, not misc.transit.
The transit discussion that inspired this RFD has qualified
itself most eminently for the talk hierarchy.
    <_Jym_>
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: guidelines for moderator replacement
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:51:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: desire.1992Aug14.105137.3462
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

In article <16fa2bINNqes@agate.berkeley.edu>, gwh@soda.berkeley.edu (George William Herbert) writes:
> In article <JAAPJL.92Aug13152129@cmb00.larc.nasa.gov> jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap) writes:
>>I think Jonathan was proposing this as a *formal* step in the CFM
>>procedure.  Thus the CFSP would be posted to n.a.ng and any related
>>groups.  Dave's approval would be sufficient to get it posted to
>>the other moderated group.  (Only the first moderated group in
>>the Newsgroups list requires an Approved: line, as I understand;
>>I've never read the RFC.)
> 
> 	One point: I origionally posted the (now canceled and moot)
> Straw poll to news.announce.newgroups and was informed by Tale
> that straw polls have never been accepted in n.a.ng, so I reposted
> it with n.a.ng out of the newsgroups list.
> 	
	For those of you who are totally confused, George was going to run a
straw poll similar to mine, but canceled it due to administrative reasons and
because the moderator for rec.arts.erotica found a replacement.

	My poll is another one that is to gauge reader views one whether the
current RFD/CFV process is sufficient for moderated group changes.

Brett                                                      
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
Disclaimer:								   NOT!
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.motorcycles
From: steve@bucolix.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier)
Subject: Re: rec.motorcycles.harley vote acknowledgment
Followup-To: news.groups
Reply-To: steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:51:14 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.175331.11535@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>
shz@garage.att.com (Keeper of the 'Tude) blurts:
>In article <1992Aug18.175455.12021@ncsu.edu>, 
>steve@bucolix.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier) writes:
>> [typical overreaction and tirade deleted]
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Gee, Seth, comin' from you, this is kinda' like the pot callin' the 
grey-kettle black.

>Steve,
>If you put as much effort into your degree work as you waste on some
>r.m* issues you'd have that degree by now and be able to attend social
>functions like the RCR.

Gee, Seth, I'm really *immensely* *flattered* at your magnanimous display
of benevolence --- that you actually care so much for *me* that you would
offer such *valuable* advice.  Maybe I should consider adjusting my
perception of you after all!

My attendance at the RCR wasn't necessary, Seth.  I could hear you and 
your straight pipes all the way from Raleigh.

>Do you expect to attend the 1993 gathering?
>- Roid

Let me know if you're going first, Seth, GoodBuddy(tm), and then I'll decide.

Steve Garnier - DoD #00000005 - '79 XS1100SF w/ 157K+ miles and *climbing*
KotF (Flame),  KotAM (Anecdotal Motorcycle),  The Daemon's Byte
       Contrary to popular belief, I am not the Devil's advocate...
                  ...but I am his speech writer.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: gberigan@cse.unl.edu (Life...)
Subject: Re: changing a newsgroup's moderator
Organization: Megadodo Publications, Light City, Ursa Minor Beta
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 14:37:29 GMT

payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
>gberigan@cse.unl.edu (Life...) writes:

::[in response to a previous article from Rich Payne]

>>Current thinking allows a moderator to choose his successor, but I agree
>>that the public should have some say about a change/removal of a
>>moderator.  This from a person who is also up for moderation of
>>comp.binaries.apple2.

>Say what? I am in no way involved with the push to moderate 
>comp.binaries.apple2, except that I have been quite vocal (or it's text
>equivalant) against the proposition. I voted "no", easily verifiable
>when the CFV ends. I think you must have me confused with someone
>else.

In the statement, "This from a person who is also up for moderation of
comp.binaries.apple2", I was referring to _myself_.  In effect, as a
possible future moderator, I am in favor of the public able to depose a
moderator.

-- gberigan@cse.unl.edu (Life...)
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: Alok, soc.culture.indian.american and soc.culture.tamil
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 13:11:25 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.224659.20810@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>It was because of the organizer (me) that it passed first time when there
>was not so much negative campaigning and organizer successfully put
>a coalition of permanent residents and second generation Indian Americans.

i.e., it passed because the vote-take engaged in massive campaigning of his
own. By the time the second vote was run, things were back closer to normal
and it failed.
-- 
                                                                `-_-'
                         Have you hugged your wolf today?        'U`

Peter da Silva, Taronga Park BBS, Houston, TX  +1 713 568 0480/1032
Xref: sparky news.groups:16844 rec.bicycles:20717
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: RESULT: rec.bicycles reorganization passes
Summary: some fell once too many times without a helmet
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:17:01 GMT
Followup-To: alt.flame
Distribution: na
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

In article <1992Aug13.132659.21549@source.asset.com>, parksd@source.asset.com (Don Parks) writes:
> In article <1992Aug13.044251.9828@uunet.uu.net> les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:
>>All of the six new unmoderated newsgroups proposed to replace
>>rec.bicycles were approved by margins of at least 403 to 124, which
>>amply meets the established criteria.  I have not bothered to count
>>the votes separately for each newsgroup because the approval rate was
>>so high for the entire proposal.  Thus, the new newsgroups are to be:
>>  rec.bicycles.marketplace
>>  rec.bicycles.tech
>>  rec.bicycles.rides
>>  rec.bicycles.soc
>>  rec.bicycles.racing
>>  rec.bicycles.misc
>>
>>...
> 
> All I can say is you all FUCKED up!!!

	Oh, sit down and shut up.  Remember to engage your brain before
speaking.

> Good luck at keeping the posts in the correct groups according to
> charters.  I think people, especially those coming in for the first
> time are going to be clueless as to where to put there posts.

	Only if they are as clueless as you.

> Let the confusion and cross posting begin !!!!!

	Get life, get a clue.  Go take a long ride and clear your head.

Brett                                                      
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
Disclaimer:								   NOT!
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: weisbr@ipfc.bau-verm.uni-karlsruhe.de (Werner Weisbrich Tel 0721 608 2317)
Subject: Re: instrument-specific groups
Organization: IPF, University of Karlsruhe
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 07:53:38 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.130914.14320@menudo.uh.edu> mece1xg@Elroy.UH.EDU writes:
>
> <stuff deleted>
>
>i think all of these ideas are good, but i feel they can be combined
>into a better hierarchy.  perhaps something like:
>
>rec.music.guitar
>rec.music.guitar.bass
>rec.music.guitar.classical
>rec.music.guitar.tab
>
this is the best idea i've read
and also something like this:

rec.music.<instrument>."x"."y"

where <instrument> is guitar, drums, keyboard, piano etc.
		"x" is the first following extension, like rec.music.guitar.tab
		"y" is the second extension, if needed.


>as far as rec.music.drums(??) goes, i guess it would have it's own
>group.  also, as a guitarist, i see tablature as natural for guitar
>"sheet" music, but not really for other instruments.  do other instrument
>players besides guitarists use tab notation?  if so, maybe *.tab should
>be put as rec.music.tab.
>

Also if other musicians use tabs (for ohter instruments) 
the tabs are not equal to the tabs of guitar. You can't compare
tabs of guitar with tabs of banjo etc.

Werner

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's your I'm looking for on every street - Mark Knopfler/Dire Straits
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap)
Subject: Re: CFD anyone?
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: AS&M Inc
	<34477@cbmvax.commodore.com> <16scvdINNccn@agate.berkeley.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 14:42:52 GMT

In article <16scvdINNccn@agate.berkeley.edu> tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:

   In article <34477@cbmvax.commodore.com> jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup) writes:
   )spot@CS.CMU.EDU (Scott Draves) writes:
   )>r.g.n.programmer
   )>r.g.n.play
   )>r.g.n.borgs
   )>r.g.n.hockey
   )>r.g.n.league.inl  (moderated?)
   )
   )	I would have:
   )r.g.n.programmer
   )r.g.n.play (rename of r.g.n)
   )r.g.n.inl

   If you people are serious about a reorganization, I suggest you read the
   guidelines posted in news.groups (amongst other places) and get a real
   RFD going.  Discussions of this sort should take place in news.groups, 
   and I have directed followups there.

   I would be against a split; I don't think the current volume warrants one.
    -Tom

And please use a descriptive Subject.  (I guess this is really Tom's
fault since he took the post out of context.)  To me, CFD means
Computational Fluid Dynamics.  I guess hockey could use this since the
puck is airborne so much. :-)
--
J Lee Jaap <jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov> +1 804/864-2148
employed by, not speaking for, AS&M Inc, at NASA LaRC, Hampton VA 23681
From: bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Un-moderating a newsgroup? (NOT rec.arts.erotica) 
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:24:13 EST
Distribution: news
Organization: Logicon Technical Services, Inc.

In article <1992Aug12.171844.22993@leland.Stanford.EDU>, jchokey@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Alexander Chokey) writes:
> 	
> 	There's been some (not a lot, but some) talk on rec.food.cooking 
> about the possibility of changing rec.food.recipes from a moderated to an
> unmoderated newsgroup.  The main reason for this is that the current 
> moderator (for legitimate reasons--  she has been hospitalized) has not posted
> anything in the past few months.  Rather than "replacing" the moderator,
> some people have proposed changing the group to an unmoderated format.
> 
> 	What would need to be done officially in order to effect this change
> or to see whether or not a large number of people thought it was a good idea?
> Is there a document somewhere that describes this process in detail?  If not,
> could someone please tell me just would need to be done.  
> 
> 	Your responses appreciated,

	Removing a moderator without her permission? Gasp!  You should be
cooked in your own juices! :)

	But seriously, a good example of why the process or removing/replacing
a moderator is needed.

	Now all we need to do is decide whether the RFD/CFV is sufficient or
call a usenet convention on the guidelines to sZZZZAAAAPPPP!

	Aiieeeeee!

Brett--------------------------------------------------------------------------
	"Why the courts don't tell a husband who has been living off his wife
to go out and get a job is beyond my comprehension."--Joan Lunden
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky news.groups:16857 rec.bicycles:20785
From: flip@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Phillip Russell)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: RESULT: rec.bicycles reorganization passes
Date: 14 Aug 92 05:06:36 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups
Distribution: na
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1992Aug13.132659.21549@source.asset.com> parksd@source.asset.com (Don Parks) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.044251.9828@uunet.uu.net> les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:
>>  rec.bicycles.marketplace
>>  rec.bicycles.tech
>>  rec.bicycles.rides
>>  rec.bicycles.soc
>>  rec.bicycles.racing
>>  rec.bicycles.misc
>All I can say is you all FUCKED up!!!
>Good luck at keeping the posts in the correct groups according to
>charters.  I think people, especially those coming in for the first
>time are going to be clueless as to where to put there posts.
>
>Let the confusion and cross posting begin !!!!!
>
>Don (the pissed of mountain biker/tourer) Juan

I agree a little. TECH, RACING, and MISC seem to be good groupings, but
I don't know about the rest. If we're gonna divide up into such specific
groups, WHERE'S REC.BICYCLES.COMMUTING?

8-)

Flip



-- 
    __@  __@        Phillip "Flip" Russell  | Purdue University
  _-\<, -\<,_       flip@sage.cc.purdue.edu | West Lafayette, IN
 (_)/---|/-(_)      "We don't have enough power captain!!!"