HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Re: Vivid-24 and SGI
From: nicaugh@otago.ac.nz
Date: 4 Jan 93 16:04:40 +1300
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand

> My point still stands.  Why are even the networks using Toasters when they
> could afford, and in fact, already own other much more expensive gear?  I
> mean, why would thay want several Toasters around when they already have
> one or two syestems in the several-hundred-thousand-dollar range? 
The same reason they use PC's with targa boards. Low end stuff usually.
I wouldn't say that the Amiga stuff will stay that way, but I would
say that it still is not in the league of SGI stuff.
> Those SGIs must be awsome machines.  People deffend them with the fervor that
> Amigoids deffend their machines.  :)
They are awesome
> 
>>
>>SGI belongs in broadcast.  Amiga belongs in industrial/home video/pre-production/draft animation. 
The areas will overlap

There are lot's of uses for 3D & 2D graphics in a TV station that an SGI
is overkill for, but an Amiga or PC does just as well & much more cost 
effectively. You would find that lot's of character generation is now
done using Amiga & PC's for example, instead of the specialist
CG's used in the past.
It's horses for courses & I personally think that all this "low end"
3D stuff is going to make the whole 3D TV market larger as producers
discover just what can be done.
If you are interested we did a 3D simulation of the Americas cup
very similar to that done by SGI (in fact our guys worked at times
with theirs). One think to come out of that from TVNZ's point
of view was the large scope for 3D in TV. Now that is going to
be spread from low end up to top of the line SGI gear.
Horses for courses

Cheers (& a happy new year)

Nigel
-- 
===============================================================================
Nigel Caughey                       Phone : +64-3-4799750
Animation Research Ltd              Fax   : +64-3-4799751
Dunedin 
New Zealand                         Email : nicaugh@otago.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: billb@abekas.com ( Bill Batty)
Subject: Re: TBC use
Organization: Abekas Video Systems Inc., Redwood City, California.
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 19:24:57 GMT

brown@vidiot.UUCP (Vidiot) writes:

>In article <C03p4t.Dyw@news.cso.uiuc.edu> duvall@eagle.sangamon.edu (Mike Duvall) writes:
><I have run a production company full time for seven years and part time
><for the last seven years. I have seen a lot of changes and have some
><good hints for you.  FIRST be careful using the term broadcast quality.
><It is generally accept that SVHS cannot be used to edit for commercials.
><I have seem some people shoot commercials on SVHS and then edit to
><another format. Some engineers do not consider 3/4" broadcast quality.
><The FCC has rules but as long as the picture quality is very good you
><usually don't have problems. Lighting is very important!!! Toasters are
><also not broadcast quality or some might say full-broadcast quality but
><many people still use them.

>Sorry, but I believe that 3/4" Umatic is broadcast quality.  My opinion.

>But, the Video Toaster is definately broadcast quality.  It meets ALL of the
>FCC NTSC specifications.  Hell, it is even being used for the new Sci-Fi program
>Babylon 5.  Damn, that video sure beats alot of other stuff that I have seen
>produced.
>-- 

	Sorry, Newtek has been trying to very forcefully assert that very point
for the past couple of NAB's now, and I'm still not convinced. At NAB '91, they
had a demo set up trying to prove that the Toaster was indeed 'broadcast quality'
(damnably annoying term - no solid definition), and all they proved to me and a
set of my peers was that they met FCC RS-170A specifications, which covers sync
and picture definitions, but has nothing to do with picture quality, noise content,
or any other criteria which could be applied to broadcast quality.
	I'm not trying to steal Newtek's thunder here - the toaster is a marvellous
piece of hardware, but it is not, nor will it ever be, a full 'broadcast quality'
system (in my informed, but biased opinion). For top level work, it's great for doing
rough work (this is how this could look if we did this effect, etc.), and the
rendering stuff is kinda amazing (that piece of it does get my respect), but it's
going to lose to hardware built by Abekas, Grass Valley, Ampex, Sony (etc.).


P.S. - Yeah, the Babylon 5 stuff does look impressive as hell.
-- 
Bill Batty
Abekas Video Systems Inc.                      NET: abekas!billb@pyramid.com
From: rob@quasar.genrad.com (Robert S. Wood)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Re: PC Genlocks/Titlers reviews needed
Date: 24 Dec 1992 09:42:04 -0500
Organization: GenRad, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: quasar.genrad.com

In article <Bz04Gy.A2u@javelin.sim.es.com> RSIMISTE@130.187.170.178 (ROGER SIMISTER) writes:
>In <tKQ=Z2_@engin.umich.edu> bernyeh@buddy.engin.umich.edu writes:
>
>> 
>> Does anyone have any reviews for the following:
>>   VGA-TV GE/O    by    Willow Peripherals
>>   VideoVGA       by    TrueVision
>>   TBC/PCB        by    Prime Image
>>   any other genlocks for PC compatibles for $1000 or less.
>> 
>The Sept 29, 1992 issue of PC Magazine has a comprehensive review of 
>VGA to NTSC boards, including TrueVision and Willow. PC
>Magazine picked the Magni VGA Producer Pro as their choice.
>
>If your considering buying a VGA to NTSC board, also consider buying
>"Prime Time". This is a software package for the PC 386 that gives 
>broadcast qulaity fonts ($450). You also need a super
>VGA monitor.
>
>Roger Simister 
It appears my Diamond Speedstor VGA board is getting weak.  Often it starts
up gray, rather than blue, and gets corrected by repeated power-cycles.  If
I have to replace it, it is 21 months old, what is a good board that will
fit into my PC editing environment, 2 AG1960's, Future Video to allow me
to do character generation and mix computer pictures with the video.  Price
is a consideration, it must be inexpensive if I am to do it al all.
			rob@genrad.com
Newsgroups: rec.video.production,rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.tv.uk,rec.video
From: muhamk@microsoft.com (Muhammad Karim)
Subject: Import/Export
Date: 28 Dec 92 11:27:57 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Keywords: Import/Export

I am interested in starting import/export business.  i

would like some help with a product line which could be

sold through Pakistan Television or Print Media.



If you have or know someone who has any product that can

be sold through the media please contact me,  i will be

happy to discuss in details.



I would appreciate all the help i can get.  Please email

me directly at muhamk@microsoft.com.



Thanks.
From: rlakin@eis.calstate.edu (Rick Lakin)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Panasonic AG-1970
Date: 29 Dec 92 16:52:16 GMT
Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services

Has anyone heard any specs on the new AG-1970.  Someone told me that the
AG-1960 is no longer manufactured and that the new machine will be coming
out soon.  It will supposedly have a built-in TBC.
					Rick Lakin
					rlakin@eis.calstate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: nwickham@nyx.cs.du.edu (Neal Wickham)
Subject: Re: TBC use
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Reply-To: nwickham@nyx.UUCP (Neal Wickham)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 11:58:53 GMT

In article <C03p4t.Dyw@news.cso.uiuc.edu> duvall@eagle.sangamon.edu (Mike Duvall) writes:

>TBCs...A recorded video signal has nearly undetectable problems with
>timing. A video signal has 525 lines each line recorded on tape. If you
>grabbed hold of a tape and stretched it the lines would be farther apart
>and then would not come up at the right time. The lines would always be
>behind the head when the head looks for it (highly exaggerated) A tbc
>will store several lines in memory and in it detects a missing line (not
>a frame, 525lines 30 times a second) it will repeat the line before it
>because it has it in memory. Ten years ago I had a TBC that was +/- 4
>lines or 2 lines of memory. I had a tape that got out by three lines
>after it played for 50 minutes. The result was the picture jumped up and
>down by one line. The client didn't even notice. With improved storage
>techniques some TBC gained an entire frame of memory. A device that
>holds a frame in memory is a FRAME SYNC. A frame sync is often confused
>with a TBC. They are not the same. A frame sync will delay an entire
>frame until it matches a reference signal. This device is used to sync
>incoming microwaves from network feeds or remote vans. TBC/Framesync
>both correct time base errors and  frame sync. 


The TBC is used in A/B roll switching since you need to get your two
source signals synced and it would be very hard to get two different
tape drives running such that each was reading the same spot on each's
frame at the same time. ...right?  The TBC will delay one or the other
signals such that the frames are synced.  Is that right?  Close?  :)  

And what about start-stop editing?  You don't want to do that do you?
Or are there ways?  ...you don't want a clip or tape where the sync
pulse suddenly changes???

Thanks,



                                   NCW
From: goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Goldberg)
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Re: Sync cable Sony->Panasonic
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:04:38 GMT
Reply-To: goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Goldberg)
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center, Annapolis, MD


You need an edit controller to do this that will talk to both units.
ONe such is the Future Video EC1000Pro.  It can talk control-L to Sony
and Canon camcorders, and control-M (5-pin) to Panasonic VCRs.
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: nwickham@nyx.cs.du.edu (Neal Wickham)
Subject: Re: Non-Linear editing platforms
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Keywords: Mac Amiga JPEG
Reply-To: nwickham@nyx.UUCP (Neal Wickham)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 06:11:17 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.034300.29164@wam.umd.edu> timelord@wam.umd.edu (Lazarus Long) writes:

>Last week I read a message that stated that the Amiga would make a better
>platform for Non-Linear editing hardware than the Mac.
>
>Why?


1.)  Amiga was built around NTSC and video timing so that video hardware is
     easier and less costly to design and manufacture.

2.)  Amiga is used in the Video Toaster and is already the platform of
     choice for professional and semi-professional vidographers (sp?)
     so that a great amount of software is already here at affordable
     prices and much more is surely to come.
 
3.)  Same as # 2 for hardware.

4.)  Mac costs much more and you can emulate Mac on Amiga ...even the
     Quadra (soon anyway) ...and for less money including the cost
     of the emulator.  All those slick Mac advertisements you see and
     hear have to be paid for somehow.  The CEO of Apple is the former
     CEO of Pepsico.

>
>What are the current street prices for high end Amigas Vs. Macs?
>A4000 vs. Quadra 950?
>

My roomate is a Mac salesman and we looked at his price sheets but he's
gone for X-max and I don't recall exact figures but it seems like the
950 w/o HD, monitor, keyboard, or mouse was still about as much as the
A4000 ...like $2800 cost and Apple people mark them up to about $5000. 
And then you have to buy Macstuff for it which is also expensive. 

The A4000 with 120 MB drive, keyboard, and mouse is $2693 if you have
the cover of an old Amiga manual (Power-up Program).    

DMI's EditMaster is $2495 (list).  In I think the Jan. Macworld I read that
the least expensive JPEG board for the Mac was $6000 and it is probably 
not nearly as good.   



                                     NCW
 
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: nwickham@nyx.cs.du.edu (Neal Wickham)
Subject: Re: Vivid-24 and SGI
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Reply-To: nwickham@nyx.UUCP (Neal Wickham)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 93 06:25:34 GMT


In article <gregpen.725880320@crash.cts.com> gregpen@crash.cts.com (Greg Penetrante) writes:

>  Since I WORK in the video field, and make my living doing computer graphics
>on AMIGAS and SGI's (yes!), I can claim this for FACT, that professionals,
>despite the cost/performance ratio of the Amiga, will not choose it because
>the Amiga does not have enough horsepower to provide EFFICIENT graphics
>PRODUCTION for MEDIUM-TO-LARGE budget production.  


You haven't seen the Vivid 24 board because it's bran new!!

And no one is slighting the SGI!  I'm sure that in many situations they 
are indispensable.


>  For the same reasons, you see QUANTEL Paintboxes (despite their overpriced
>nature) in TV studios (every one I've seen.. KNSD-TV, KFMB, KGTV, WPIX, KSCI,
>WWOR, WGBH).  


...sure, sometimes for big-budget production, a few hundred thousand dollars
invested in hardware is of little consequence.


>I am sorry but the argument is wrong.  1) With an SGI, you can have multiple
>artists working on MULTIPLE projects at the same time;  2) Having artists sit
>around idling is STUPID MANAGEMENT and my ASS won't be employed if this were so.


My point still stands.  Why are even the networks using Toasters when they
could afford, and in fact, already own other much more expensive gear?  I
mean, why would thay want several Toasters around when they already have
one or two syestems in the several-hundred-thousand-dollar range? 


>ONE artist can crank out his/her project on the SGI in one hour. The REST of
>the artists will be in PRE-PRODUCTION or POST-PRODUCTION consultation with
>clients while the said artists is working. :-)  


...skipped.


>I AM NOT KIDDING.  If YOUR argument were true, EVERYBODY would have an AMIGA
>and the other companies would be doing something else! :-)  BZZZZT!
>The SGI and others are DAMN good machines.  The Amiga is a DAMN good machine.


Those SGIs must be awsome machines.  People deffend them with the fervor that
Amigoids deffend their machines.  :)

>
>SGI belongs in broadcast.  Amiga belongs in industrial/home video/pre-production/draft animation. 
> 


Amiga and Toasters are being used professionally as well as in industrial/
home.



                                      NCW


Newsgroups: rec.video.production
Subject: Re: Vivid-24 and SGI
Summary: 
Expires: 
Reply-To: nwickham@nyx.UUCP (Neal Wickham)
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Keywords: 

Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: nwickham@nyx.cs.du.edu (Neal Wickham)
Subject: Re: TBC use
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Reply-To: nwickham@nyx.UUCP (Neal Wickham)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 93 08:47:30 GMT

In article <4672@vidiot.UUCP> brown@vidiot.UUCP (Vidiot) writes:

>But, the Video Toaster is definately broadcast quality.  It meets ALL of the
>FCC NTSC specifications. Hell, it is even being used for the new Sci-Fi program
>Babylon 5.  Damn, that video sure beats alot of other stuff that I have seen
>produced.

 
The TV program "Unsolved Mysteries" uses Toasters for all of there special
effects, many of which are top drawer.
 
And there has been a commercial running a lot here in Denver that is almost
certainly using some Amiga software called Motionman which is a 3D human
model which can be rendered and animated through script files.


                                   NCW

Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: gregpen@crash.cts.com (Greg Penetrante)
Subject: Re: Vivid-24 and SGI
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 29 Dec 92 09:28:27 GMT

In <1992Dec29.034858.9390@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> nwickham@nyx.cs.du.edu (Neal Wickham) writes:


>PS

>...for $200,000 you could probably buy 50 or so Amigas with Vivid boards!


   ...  But the SGI would still be BETTER! 

   In terms of REAL-WORLD mentality where price/performance isn't necessarily
  a factor in getting CLIENTS and BUSINESS.  A few firms here in San Diego
  do tons of business with their SGI's; whereas another local Amiga firm aches
  by with a few clients a month... and has to rent out its video editing and
  hardware to make up the difference.
   Not to mention: SGI will STILL BE MORE EFFICIENT at generating images! Once
  again, in a REAL-WORLD business climate, you are looking for maximum
  turnaround for dollars spent.  Agreed, that a Vivid-24 system will cost way
  less, a user would still have to WAIT until final images are finally rendered
  and dumped to tape.  Maybe such a system could do, perhaps a few seconds of
  images PER HOUR; On the other hand, a fully loaded SGI can dump MINUTES of
  final images to tape, thereby being MORE EFFICIENT, and generating MORE 
  DOLLARS per hour spent. 

  And that, folks, is all that counts.

  :-)  :-)


 gregpen@crash.cts.com

Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: mark@westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson)
Subject: Re: Supermac's DigitalFilm Video capture and export board
Organization: Radiant Image Productions, Merrimack NH.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:57:57 GMT

>I wrote:
>>At a resolution of 720x486 and a 10:1 compression ratio, thats 1.8 GB/minute.

Oooops. Will McCown at Rhythm & Hues pointed out a teensy error. I forgot
to factor in the actual 10:1 compression. The correct number is 180MB
per minute. Sorry.....

nwickham@nyx.UUCP (Neal Wickham) writes:
>EditMaster's least
>compression is 15:1 which they claim is visually lossless and of 3/4 inch
>Betacam quality.

I would agree that 15:1 is nearly visually lossless and probably exceeds
Beta SP quality by a good margin. But depending on your source image, I
would bet that even 20:1 would suffice in many cases to achieve Beta SP
quality.

>I *think* 25:1 is in the SVHS catagory and would suit many needs and with
>it you'll get 833 sec per Gig or about 14 min.

I would say more like 30:1 but this is all very subjective source dependant.

>>I for one would not compress
>>less than 20:1. You will lose FAR more going to video output than you do
>>in a 20:1 jpeg compression.
>
>...you mean "more" than 20:1??

I meant less, but after looking very carefully at some very "jpeg stressful"
images, I think I would do my animation masters at between 15 and 20 to 1
depending on video format destination.

>You could get an EditMaster and a Video Toaster for about $5000.  :)

Add a Sunrize AD516 for $1500 and you really have an amazing setup.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   mark@westford.ccur.com        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.video.production
From: "tony camara" <tony.camara@canrem.com>
Subject: looking for source to buy
Reply-To: "tony camara" <tony.camara@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 29 Dec 92 08:12:58 EST

If you are looking to find blank tapes from one of the suppliers of
brand name tapes you won't find any deals and you won't get anything
untill you start talking in the hundreds. Even then you will only save
maybe .50 cent's if you're very lucky . There is no longer any money to
be made in blank tape . The large department stores are almost giving
them away . You're best bet go to a few electroic stores see who give's
you the best price .
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.video
From: mullen@itd.nrl.navy.mil (Preston Mullen)
Subject: Re: Sony TR-101/Nikon VN750/Yashica/Ricoh...
Summary: Nikon VN750 $1399 at Ritz Camera stores
Keywords: VN750
Reply-To: mullen@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Organization: Information Technology Division, Naval Research Laboratory
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 23:40:23 GMT

In article 6160@almserv.uucp, smith@ur-guh.com (Russ Smith) writes:
> The question was "How much did a Nikon VN750 (TR-101 in Nikon disguise)
> cost and where did you get it?"
> 
> The answer is "$1379 + shipping from Adorama of NYC, full USA warranty, brand
> new, etc". The more complete answer is, however, that other places may have
> this or equivalent even cheaper; there is that Texas company, name escapes
> me, that purports to be about $100 less (about enough to buy two LED-metered
> 2-hour batteries).

A couple of months ago, the Nikon VN750 was $1399 at Ritz Camera
centers in the Washington DC area, including a free Nikon "extended
service coverage" (ESC) that extends the normal 90 days labor/1 year
parts warranties by 5 years for certain subsystems.

Ritz is a widespread retail chain in the U.S.  Not all stores in the DC
area had the VN750 in stock, but any of them could get one in a day or
two from an area warehouse.  A usually cut-rate DC store (Graffiti) was
selling the TR-101 at the same price, without any extended coverage, and
they didn't have one in stock anyway. 

The ESC covers motors (capstain, tape loading, focus), heads and such,
but not electronics and, as best as I can tell, not the stabilizer.  It
is separate from the warranty and is not automatic; you must register
by mail with Nikon within 90 days of purchase.  The special form is not
delivered in the camera box.  If you don't receive it as part of the
sale (a large square envelope), ask before you leave the store.  At
Ritz, these forms are considered inventory items, so to give it to you
free, they ring it up as a $99 item plus a $99 "adjustment" credit.

I'm curious if any of the other variations on TR-101 (including TR-101
itself) has any sort of manufacturer's extended warranty, whether free
or not, and details thereof.  Also whether all mail order firms are
including the Nikon ESC automatically.