HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 12:55:06 EDT
From:         Jamie <PL436000@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: War between the Jasons

>From:         ZIMMERJ@WABASH.BITNET

>>What, you didn't hear Pat Buchanan's keynote address in Houston?
>
>I don't recall Pat advocating stripping gays of any of the above mentioned
>rights.

Oh, you are only worried about the rights you mentioned? For some
reason I expected you to be concerned with all constitutional rights.

>I notice that you couldn't provide a direct quote of him saying any more
>than that, but I'll check the text anyway.

I referred you to the text, to which you have as easy access as I.
If you REALLY want me to, I will go find it from Peter's posting.

>Equal protection of the law means (meant?) that a state cannot pass a
>law guaranteeing everyone health care and then not enforce that law for a
>particular group.  The laws can still exclude whoever they want (so long as it
>doesn't violate the constitution), its just that exclusions cannot be enforced
>without being made explicit in the original law.

No, that's wrong.
Equal protection means the laws have to protect people equally,
not that they have to be applied to everyone. A law that denied
to black people access to a state highway when access was allowed
to whites would violate equal protection.

>For example, the tax code (as KAT pointed out) gives married couples a lower
>tax rate than singles.  This discriminates against bachelors and therefore
>violates the equal protection clause as you mis-defined it.

Here the question is whether there is what the Court calls a "rational
basis" for the distinction. Roughly, the test is this. If there is
some reason other than prejudice against bachelors for having differential
tax codes, then the code does not violate equal protection. If that is
the only reason, then it does violate equal protection.

I wonder whether you have ever read any decisions involving the
clause? Your interpretation is completely wrong.

>Really, these tax
>code distinctions are fine.  The only qualification is that the gov't cannot
>say "everyone will get taxed at a 30% rate" and then ignore that and tax gays
>at a 50% rate.  That would indeed violate the equal protection clause.

Huh. I don't suppose you have a citation for this unique interpretation
of the equal protection clause, do you?

For mine, see Railway Express Agency v. New York, for example.

Jamie
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Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 15:50:11 -0700
From:         Andy Freeman <andy@SAIL.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Balance Budgets

>One of Clinton's common statements about balanced budgets has been
>his history of balancing the Arkansas state budget early & often
>in his time as governor.

It's a rather meaningless statement as he can't sign a budget unless
it is legally balanced.  (In CA, we're exploring just what "balanced"
means.  For example, one plan, pushed by "friends of Education", is to
loan schools about a billion and require repayment at the end of the
year.  The alternative is to not give schools that billion.  I don't
know how this helps with the "shortfall".)

As Governor of CA, every budget Reagan signed was balanced as well and
I suspect the same was true of Carter.  (LBJ and Ford weren't
Governors and I don't know if Nixon was Governor of CA, but if he was,
every state budget he signed was "balanced" as well.)  The fact that a
person has signed balanced budgets at the state level because they
couldn't sign unbalanced ones doesn't seem to say anything about what
they'll do as president.

-andy
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 23:56:00 EST
From:         Tyrone Slothrop <199561011@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject:      bible clubs

kerry may not mind bible clubs, but if anyone ever came at me
with a club made of bible's, i'd duct tape 'em to the ceiling--
twice.

brni
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Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:20:43 EDT
From:         K=A*T <MEC038@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
              26 Aug 1992 17:51:53 -0400 from <SPRG0002@TULSAJC>

From:         "Robert sprg0002@tulsajc.bitnet" <SPRG0002@TULSAJC.BITNET>

> You're awfully complimentary for one that challenges my level of disdain
> for our government.  Scum-sucking weenies is like saying "I love you".
> Try harder.

> ---Robert

1. I "love" you.    :-)
2. I knew there was a catch behind YOUR type of Christians saying:
   "We *love* all people."

--KAT who is extremely annoyed with Robert and Carl for discriminating
      whom they insult.  What ever happened to equal opportunity?
      I have worked as hard as Jamie has but haven't gotten as
      much "attention."  I am claiming discrimination based on
      national origin.     :-)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
From: jwales@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (jimmy donal wales)
Subject: Re: the war on personal liberties
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:10:45 GMT

Bimbo writes:
>A very fine and very readable book on the topic of drug prohibition
>is _The Economics of Prohibition_, by Mark Thornton.
>
>Just in case anybody wants to actually make a decision based on
>an education examination of the issue...
          ^^^

Maybe this guy should get some himself!  Try: "an educated examination"


>--Jimbo

--Jimbo "Debate yourself, it is easier to win" Wales





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Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 09:53:56 -0400
From:         Rick George <RIGEORGE@VASSAR.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: new topic: unrest in germany

>Also, what do list members think about punishment for youth? I saw a
>recent cbs news article that car theft is epidemic on the east coast and
>that many of the perpatrators are under 14 years of age. The police see
>the problem as being that the joy riders are immediately released with
>no punishment for their actions. I would think that there are other
>social considerations such as lack of youth activities.
>
>fred

The latest hobby in the Newark, NJ area among teens seems to be stealing
cars--with the object being to be as bold as possible.  As New Jersey
officials were getting ready to meet yesterday to discuss the problem,
a state trooper's marked car was stolen in Orange.  The car was recovered
less than two hours later in Newark (last I heard, they had not recovered
the trooper's shotgun, which was missing when they found the car).  The
thieves also have started ramming the cars they steal into police cars
for the thrill of seeing the cops' airbags inflate.

I heard a clip on the radio this morning from Newark Mayor Sharpe James where
he seemed to indicate a desire to punish the thieves as adults.  He said
that the teens are usually held for less than 24 hours when they steal
cars and that often their parents don't even find out that their kids were
stealing cars.

There's a story in this morning's NY Times that community leaders are
pressing state officials to start camps that would "emphasize cultural
instruction and community service."

I can't imagine that throwing these kids in jail for stealing cars is
going to do much.  I think that emphasizing culture and community service
is fine, but I might add job training to the mix.  Newark's poverty problems
aren't going to go away overnight, but throwing a bunch of 14 year olds
in the poky doesn't seem to be the answer to me.

...Rick
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 15:25:54 -0400
From:         SPRG0002@TULSAJC.BITNET

 *** Resending note of 08/26/92 14:15

 >>  But isn't it at all embarrassing to realize that
 >>you are no match for half a mind?
 >>                                 -Tim

 > I guess not. YOU'RE STILL POSTING.

 |*Now*, I see why Robert prefers thinking of "you" as a
 |general reference, rather than a specific reference to
 |himself.

 |You must have been the subject of many remarks such as
 |this one (i.e. Tim's) throughout your life.   :-)
 |KAT

 No.  Why don't YOU write a few volumes about it, so we'll better understand
 how YOU turned out the way YOU did?

 ---Robert
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Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1992 10:34:00 EDT
From:         the valley of the fuzz-tone guitar <SWEDE@DRYCAS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: chipmunks

MacPhil alerts me:
>You are way, way too late.  This idea was already taken by the National
>Enquirer a couple of years ago /c a cover story that read "invisible agents
>guard the president" and Truman's daughter has already been in the press
>this week saying it's fortunate for George that her father wasn't alive
>to straighten him out...

Hell, I knew my reading list was missing some vital source.  Who knew it
would be the Enquirer?

Now that I think about it, it's been ages since I read my favorite tabloid,
the Weekly World News.  Maybe I oughta go get one today, just for old times
sake.  Wonder what Ed Anger thinks about Clinton? :)

Gary W. Olson                 "The great and direct end of government is
SWEDE@DRYCAS.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU   liberty.  Secure our liberties and privileges,
65 days and counting down...   and the end of government is answered.  If this
                               be not effectively done, government is an evil."
           - Patrick Henry, Speech against the U.S. Constitution, June 25, 1788
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Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 11:42:47 -0400
From:         KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
Subject:      Re: child care tax credit

Missy J:
>The tax system is ridiculous, and what's more, the instructions were
>written by Klingons and translated into English by people for whom it
>is a fourth or fifth language (like lawyers).  Why don't they just say
>"write number X in box A," instead of making it so complex and making
>you flip back and forth between page 2 and page 32 and your stupid
>W-2 forms?
>
>I think the same people who write SAS manuals are in charge of tax forms.
>Once you go beyond the E-Z form, you need a CPA to get it right.  (And,
>of course, every year, they do that nifty study that proves that if you
>call the IRS 50 different times with the same question, you get 50
>different answers, and all of them are wrong.  I always wonder how they
>ultimately decide what the right answer is, anyway.)

Hey!  Sounds like you got a *much* better manual than I did!  Can I get a
copy?

Kerry
who loves the way you can get half-way through your return only to find out
you need form xy-482; half-way through form xy-482, you find you need form
zy382, which you can't get at the post office or library, so you gotta find
a tax accountant and (s)he will conveniently not tell you that the
instructions are in a separate document so you waste time and gas and
decide to get drunk instead.
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Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 14:09:00 CDT
From:         Pam Leader <SYSPL@UOKMVSA.BITNET>
Subject:      School choice..say, what?!?!

I recall hearing both Cap'n Bushy and his sidekick, Birdbrain,
mention something about School Choice as a v.i.p. proposal to improve
public education.....Cap'n Bushy believes that School Choice should
not be limited to public schools, but extended to private schools as
well....it seems to me that rich folks already have a choice...they
send their kids to whatever expensive or free school they want to.
Poor folks can't afford to send their kids to private schools no
matter how many tax credits they get. Choice of public schools, I
comprehend.  Private schools?  Please say it isn't so.......
is Cap'n Bushy really intending to allow rich folks to squirrel out
of paying school taxes if their own kids don't attend public schools?
Taking money OUT of the public school system doesn't seem like a very
good idea at a time when 30% of children in America are living below
the poverty level.  I swear I had steam coming out of my ears the
night I heard about this brilliant idea.
  In fact, I was pretty darn angry every night last week after hearing
a continuous barrage of elitist, hawkish, insensitive, dishonest,
evasive garbage at the RNC.
  Can anyone please enlighten me on this issue of School Choice?
Perhaps I am not understanding Bush's position on this issue
correctly.
  This is only one of many controversial points I heard last week.
  This,coming straight out of the mouth of our "education president".
           N O T !!!!
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Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 12:35:03 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: my last word on this EVER

Jamie:

How did you and linda get where you are now without having been
fetusus? (feti?....unborn babies.)

--Missy P 2 B
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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 13:21:58 CDT
From:         "The Truth (some assembly required)" <T9AA@SDSUMUS.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: speed, police, crime, hell

My First Speeding Ticket
by Dave Jacoby

It was my senior year in high school, the day before a research
paper was due. My dad was going to a formal dinner for the Yuma
Army Proving Ground, and the people he rented his tux from forgot
the studs.  He said, "Dave, go and get me studs." I say, "I'm in
the middle of this research paper." He says, "So?"

So I go. There's a turn I had to take, right next to a grocery
store. I had a green, and when I turned right, I specifically
noted the police officers in the vehicle. I drove to the next stop
light, which was, at best, 200 yards away from the tux store, and
guess what I saw behind me? Yup, flashing lights. I thought, "That
can't be for me," but when the light changed, it turned out that
it was. They claimed I was going 50 in a 35. I had no idea what
speed I was driving. I was in writer mode, oblivious to my
surroundings.

And I still think my dad is responsible, because I knew I was in
no mental shape for driving.

Dave
t9aa@sdsumus.bitnet
btw, another officer once told me that my car could go 120 mph when
the max number on the speedometer is 85.
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Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:07:00 EDT
From:         the valley of the fuzz-tone guitar <SWEDE@DRYCAS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: I'm back, *again*

Home again, home again, jiggidy jig!

From: Bill Dickson <dickson@ESKIMO.CELESTIAL.COM>
>Hi everybody.  Trying yet *another* internet server.  This one's been
>around for a while, so I'm hoping it's more reliable than the last.
>Are you receiving me?

Hail and welcome back, Bill!  As you can see, your post made it through.

>Bill D.

Gary W. Olson               "That's tonight's 'Unsolved Mysteries.' Next
SWEDE@DRYCAS.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU week we'll present wildly inconclusive evidence
62 days and counting down... on the Amelia Earhart disappearance, U.F.O.'s
                             and God. Be there!"-Evan Dorkin's "Milk & Cheese"
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Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 18:21:40 CDT
From:         "The Truth (some assembly required)" <T9AA@SDSUMUS.BITNET>
Subject:      i am so dismayed

i just got the catalog from national wildlife federation. you know, the gift one
with cards you can buy and coffee mugs and tee-shirts all with wolves on
them and stuff.

(personal note: i love wolves-incredibly interesting species)

anyway, do you know what they make the cards and notepaper and giftwrap out of?

"post-consumer fibers".

somehow i feel dismayed when i hear and read pc-isms from organizations of which
i think highly. every time i hear unnecessary jargon, i feel like i'm being
given a load of bull.

    The word got out (I'm not sure if it is true) that some paper
    companies put out paper that was made out of the paper that
    gets trimmed off to get the nice, neat reams that get run through
    photocopiers and printers every day, and labeling it "recycled."
    It is recycled, but it is also not what it seems to be, and to
    guard against that, they mark that it contains post-consumer
    paper.

    Just like stereos need stickers saying that Underwriters' Labs
    approves, and just like food needs to have its ingredients labeled,
    recycled paper needs a justification for its claim.

maybe i'm just too sensitive-or too old. sigh.

    Just wait for "100% post-consumer, oxygen-bleached acid-free paper."

-linda  (looking for my bi-focals)

Dave    (preparing to see God's Favorite Band in Money's favorite city,
         Soo Falls)
t9aa@sdsumus.bitnet
Anyone can become ANGRY. That is easy. But to be angry with the
right person, to the right degree, at the right time, foir the right
purpose and in the right way - that is not easy.
              --Aristotle
Disclaimer: The opinions contained in this post are insightful
and brilliant. Obviously, these are not those of the Computer
Department, Administration, Faculty or Student Body of South
Dakota State University.
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Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:36:46 -0400
From:         "Robert sprg0002@tulsajc.bitnet" <SPRG0002@TULSAJC.BITNET>
Subject:      for KAT only. scripture ref

 KAT,

 Matthew 19:9

 ---Robert

 "Abortion has saved us from looking at a lot of childish art"
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Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 21:54:03 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: speed, police, crime, hell
              3 Sep 1992 18:03:21 GMT from <scaruffi@FLASH.ATC.OLIVETTI.COM>

Piero:

Speeding?  You're worried about speeding?

Gimme a break.  In this town, we give citations (and sometimes make
arrests) for not wearing a *seat belt* (if the passenger isn't
wearing one, the driver gets the citation.)

There are bigger problems to worry about.

If you think speeding citations are hell, wait till you forget to pay
taxes.

--Missy P 2 B
From: SACLARK@UNMCVM.BITNET (Sue Clark)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: No subject specified
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:29:27 GMT
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Kerry and Robert:

*30* million and still counting.  What happens to activated bombs after a
while?

Sue Clark
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Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 15:24:56 EDT
From:         Evelyn Duncan <R3EJD@AKRONVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The City on the Hill
              25 Aug 1992 15:11:47 -0400 from <KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU>

Well, Kerry, to give Quayle the benefit of the doubt, he could have been
talking about getting more Republican senators and representatives
elected in 1994.

Evelyn
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:19:09 EDT
From:         Jamie <PL436000@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: my last word on this EVER

Astounding.

>From:         Travis Kidd <TKIDD@CLEMSON.BITNET>
>
>On Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:20:00 EST linda <SABOE@VUVAXCOM.BITNET> said:
>> i do not hold the same beliefs as you do robert. i do not believe that aborti
>n
>> is murder. i do not believe that human life begins at conception. the evidenc
>I do not hold the same beliefs you do, linda.  I do not believe that
>raping a woman is a violation of their bodies.  The evidence is not
>there.

Travis says that there is no evidence that rape is a violation of
a woman's body.

Linda has said that she would post no more on the topic, but really,
this is a little much to take.

Is there anything at all that Travis WOULD count as a violation
of a woman's body? The question seems not to be one of evidence
so much as one of definition. Given any even remotely plausible
definition of "violation of a woman's body," wouldn't it follow
INSTANTLY that rape counts as one?

Jamie

(Travis is certainly making a run for the title. Robert, quick
post something!)
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Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 17:44:55 EDT
From:         Jamie <PL436000@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: To Missy: On Wrongness

Richard,

Strange as this may seem, I believe you have misunderstood Missy
Justice's question.

I've just finished a longish reply to Carl, so I am averse to
reproducing lots of text, even your lucid prose. I hope I will not
misrepresent anyone, but it may turn out that way.

In explaining what is good, it at first appeared that you were going to
say that the good is what is desired. But you didn't quite say that. You
said, the good is what we OUGHT to desire.

Now, this is awfully close to being circular. It is not sure to be
circular, for a couple of reasons. One reason is that you may not think
"ought" and "good" are as closely related as we tend to assume they are.
The other reason is fairly technical and I won't go into it unless
someone asks--it has to do with recursive definitions.

I believe that Missy's point was this. She asked why murder (or some
other horrible thing, I've forgotten) is wrong. You explained wrongness
in terms of goodness, and then goodness in terms of what people ought to
desire.

Missy is pointing out that not much progress appears to have been made.
The difficult question is how to connect the normative concepts to the
naturalistic ones, or to the non-normative ones. Explaining wrongness by
citing goodness, or oughts, or obligations, or duties, or rights,....
etc., doesn't SEEM to move in the right direction. It's more of a
lateral move.

I am certain that Richard understands the point, he just didn't recognize
that it is the one Missy was making.

Or, I have completely misinterpreted the whole thing.

Jamie
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Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 08:43:43 MST
From:         Roger <CARROLL@SCC.BITNET>
Subject:      republicans take the high road

>I just heard a news report that Texas republicans are hiring an Elvis
>impersonator to follow Bill Clinton on his bus tour through Texas.
>
>fred

Hate to tell you this Fred, but it's the REAL Elvis.  They found him in July
baking bread at the Rainbow gathering.
                                               ---roger
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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:49:57 -0900
From:         "ACAD2A::ASCER" <ASCER@ALASKA.BITNET>

I for one try to practice what I preach about America First....
unfortunitly. not in all cases it is not possible like electronics...
and other like items....I wish I could though.
Charles
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