HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Subject: Re: Advice needed on ovens and ranges
Organization: OSF Research Institute
	<1992Aug19.151836.19820@starbase.trincoll.edu>
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:07:40

In article <1992Aug19.151836.19820@starbase.trincoll.edu> nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller) writes:

   We're about to install a new kitchen and are faced with a number of
   decisions about wall ovens, to wit:

   electric vs. gas

Although I'm a staunch believer in gas cook tops, I don't know of any
particular advantage of gas over electric for ranges, and they do
require plumbing and venting, which is probably more trouble than
running a new electric circuit (if needed).

   conventional vs. convection/microwave

Convection ovens are very nice.  They can do everything a regular oven
can do, and often better.  Microwave ovens are of course handy, but
very limited in functionality (although some people swear by them for
all their cooking, I don't know any _good_ cooks who do).

We just bought a convection/microwave because we wanted a microwave
for reheating etc., and a second oven is always handy.  Our main oven
is very large (about 30"x27" internal), so the smallness of the
convection/microwave doesn't bother us.  A combined convection/
microwave also saves space compared to two units.

   Brand names (even model numbers if available) are also
   earnestly solicited.

We got the Sharp 7A82, which is the smallest convection/microwave we
could find.  This goes for about $350 at discounters these days.
Sharp also makes a larger one, with fancier features (broiling
element, rotisserie), for more money ($500?).  Various European
manufacturers make more expensive ones, which look nicer and integrate
better, but I don't think they're imported into the US.

   As for gas cooktop ranges, we would like to hear opinions of
   downdraft vs. updraft models.

I wasn't aware that there were any downdraft gas cooktops.  Wouldn't
that interfere with the flame?  As far as I can tell, you might as
well select among regular home cooktops by what you can see, namely
aesthetics, ease of cleaning, cost.  There are no hidden quality
factors that seem to matter much.  

Of the home models, the most beautiful are the Gaggenaus.  They are
also by far the most expensive.  The professional-style ones (Viking,
Four Star) are even more expensive, and may have slightly higher
output (15,000 BTUH instead of 12,000).
From: jefftb@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Jeff Brown)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:09:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Home owners Insurance -- Farmers versus Allstate
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (NMD MTA MWTD)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house

I have Farmers w/o much problem. I didn't think any homeowners covered personal
water craft ( unless it's an umbrella). I have a boat w/ it's own insurance.
The home owners won't cover you if it over 10 or 25 hp or something like that.
My niegbor has a couple of Yamaha wave jammers and it cost him $225/year for
only $15k of liablity only. I pay that for my fully covered (10K) boat w/
$500k liablity. Anyway, he got a umbella deal for his cars, boat, wavejammers
and house. He says it covers liablity to $1M or something like that and costs
less overall. I think I may look into that too.
One thing w/ insurance companies you never really know is how much they try
to weasel out of claims. I have heard that Allstate is good for that, but I
think it was only one testimonal. Maybe some Netters can shead some light on this. Would make a good topic. I haven't had a problem w/ Farmers claims. They 
even covered carpet that got wet from water seeping under a concrete slab when
they really didn't have to. But Mid-Century ( farmers boat Co.) didn;t cover
a freak freeze that crack my boat's engine block. It was spelled out in the policy and there were at least 1000 claim in our county alone. 
well that's my $0.02 worth
Jeff Brown
From: maslak@unix.SRI.COM (Valerie Maslak)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Marble in shower
Date: 14 Aug 92 23:12:06 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, California

My shower is tiled with rectangular gray marble tiles about
6 inches or so long. I haven't had any problem with water stains.
I don't know if any sealer was put on the marble when the tile was
installed, but I doubt it (the bath was done before I bought the
house). I do have problems with alcohol stains on the
vanity/countertop, though. Listerine, skin freshener and other such
things make a mark if I'm not very quick. I use marble polish on it
once in awhile.

Valerie Maslak

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: jon@destin.dazixco.ingr.com (Jon Stone)
Subject: Dryers: gas vs. electric
Reply-To: jon@ingr.com
Organization: Dazix - An Intergraph Company
X-Newsreader: GNU Emacs 18.58.1, GNUS 3.14.1, NNTP 3.10
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:22:46 GMT


I have just purchased a house in Colorado, and will need to purchase a
dryer.  I have looked around at several stores, and have found none of
those yellow energy usage stickers on any dryers.  Hence my quest.

What are the trade offs of gas vs. electric dryer?

Here's what I know:

- The house has a gas line within 6 feet of the dryer's location, so I
  must get someone certified to extend the gas line over to the dryer
  if I buy a gas dryer.  I'm guessing that it will cost ~ $100 to get
  this done.

- New gas dryers cost $40-50 more than electric.

- I have been told that gas is 1/3 the cost of electric for running
  the dryer.

Basically, I'm trying to compute the time to recover my cost, but
don't have any idea how much kwh electricity or ccf of gas are used /
year by the average dryer.

I don't have the gas & electric rates for my area on hand, but do any
of you have any experience in this area?  Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Jon

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon Stone                                                 jon@ingr.com
Dazix, an Intergraph Company; Boulder, CO               (303) 581-2319
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: gcagle@dracula.mentorg.com (Greg Cagle)
Subject: Re: Which garage door opener to use?
Originator: gcagle@dracula
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 22:10:35 GMT
Organization: Mentor Graphics 
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 


What about noise? Our old Sears opener sounds like Armaggedon when
it operates, and I can't seem to make it any quieter. One would
speculate that the "tape-drive" ones would be quieter; what
about the screw-drive ones?

- Greg
-- 
Greg Cagle               "Floont Artney, Private Eye"
Mentor Graphics          
greg_cagle@mentorg.com
From: lsnow@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM (Linda Snow)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Smell from fireplace
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:29:52 GMT
Reply-To: lsnow@ncrclm.ClemsonSC.NCR.COM (Linda Snow)
Organization: NCR E&M CLEMSON Liberty, SC

In article <92231.221316SADELMAN@MIAMIU.BITNET> SADELMAN@MIAMIU.BITNET writes:
>Help!  We moved into a house with a wood burning stove that was installed
> incorrectly.  We took out the wood stove and had a chimeny sweep clean
> the flue and the smoke shelf.  We continually get a really strong odor from
> the fire place - especially on warm and damp days.

I have a somewhat similar problem.  No woodstove, just original fireplace.
I've been in the house 3 winters, and just during the last one the
fireplace tends to smoke a bit.  One time it was bad enough to set off the
smoke alarm. The rest of the time you just get a bit of haze in the air
and maybe my eyes sting a little after a long evening with the fire burning.
I'm using *very* dry wood and I tend to build a fairly large, hot fire.  I
haven't had the chimney cleaned because I was told that had no influence on
smoking, only on sparks and possibly chimney fires.  Ideas?
From: langston@langston.cs.utk.edu (Mike Langston)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Which garage door opener to use?
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:06:36 GMT
Reply-To: langston@langston.cs.utk.edu (Mike Langston)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Tennessee
NNTP-Posting-Host: langston.cs.utk.edu

bill stoffel writes:

> I have 2 of the 1/2 HP "Screw-Drive" Genie's and have been very happy
> with them. The auto reverse can be set very accurately, and they seem
> to hold the setting very well. No other maintenance required so far...

i installed 3 of these a coupla years ago and agree completely -- they're 
far superior to the sears chain drive models i had in my last house -- you 
might get by with the cheaper 1/3 hp genie model, but i wouldn't pick this 
as a place to try to save 20 bucks -- i found the installation instructions
unusually clear

another nice feature: each of mine came with a 3-buton remote, so i can 
just hang a single remote in any vehicle to control all 3 garage doors -- 
if you have multiple doors/openers, this is a very handy set-up

-- 
mike langston <langston@cs.utk.edu>
computer science department, university of tennessee

have you fed your killfile today?
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: russell@ncube.com (Russell Randolph)
Subject: Re: Elevating water heaters for safety
Organization: nCUBE CORPORATION
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:22:13 GMT

jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
>The logic is quite simple.  gasoline vapors are very heavy compared
>to air and will thus hug the floor.  They flow along the floor like an
>invisible liquid.  Unless a whole lot of gas is spilled in a closed 
>and totally stagnant area, the layer will not get more than a few 
>inches thick.

>The water heater pilot light, being mounted BELOW the tank in normally
>down in that layer.  A normal furnace, particularly an updraft one, has 
>the flame a couple of feet off the ground.  That makes a world of difference.

Interesting.  So why is my electric water heater raised (house built this
year), but my electric furnace isn't?

Russell Randolph
nCUBE, Beaverton, Oregon
russell@ncube.com
Xref: sparky misc.consumers.house:10816 sci.energy:3990
From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,sci.energy
Subject: Re: Need A/C recommendation
Date: 14 Aug 92 00:05:07 GMT
Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <1992Aug11.223621.2288@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
>Well, it had to happen someday ... buy WHY did it have to happen in AUGUST?!
>
>My choices are to get a new wall unit or put in a central A/C.
>
>Would you go for a new wall unit?  If so, what brand has the best SEER
>for the buck?
>
>Or would you 'bite the bullet' and put in a Real A/C (tm) by adding a
>pad for a heat pump and an evaporator in the heater closet?  Again,
>if so, what brands/designs have best performance for the buck?  Which
>is quietest?  (Which can be put in the quickest ;-)  it IS the hottest
>day of the year, after all ... 8-(  

My central AC *and* furnace died earlier this year and I replaced the
pair with what is called a package unit. The original unit was in the
crawl space under the house and the new unit sits out back next to the
wall. With a SEER of 12, it's cut my electric bills in half so far this
year compared to last summer. And it's one hell of a lot easier to
service. Installation took half a day including removing the old furnace
and reworking the ducts. I strongly recomend this as a good option.
It's quieter than the old system, holds the house temperature more
constant, and costs less. How can you beat that?

Gary
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: muchow@zebo.network.com (Jim Muchow)
Subject: Re: Propane Co. makes offer...a deal or a trap ?  ADVICE WANTED
Organization: Network Systems Corporation
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 16:27:39 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.012658.19767@scott.skidmore.edu> tholland@pars.skidmore.edu (Anthony Holland) writes:
>We are working with a builder, finalizing details to have a home built,  
>part of the deal is having the whole house run on propane gas.  Simply  
>put, it was MUCH cheaper than any other form of energy etc..
>

Except for natural gas. The conversion is easy however, so you haven't
lost anything for now by going with propane until natural gas becomes
available.

> My obligations: I must buy propane from this company for 8 years at the  
>following rates per gallon (in sequence of years):
>
>898
>934
>971
>1.009
>1.049
>1.091
>1.134
>1.179

This is really expensive gas. Really expensive. Is this typical of your
area? You might want to investigate.

>PLUS, I MUST BUY a minimum of 1,000 gallons of propane per year for gthe 8  
>years.  Total cost about $8,246 (don't have my calculator handy).
>
>THE QUESTION:  IS TWO PART:  My new house is going to be 1,344 Sq. ft.
>	I am going to have all gas appliances: range, house heat,
>	water heater, and clothes dryer.  Will I be able to use
>	1,000 gallons of propane in 1 year

I used around 750 but I didn't have a gas range/oven. I doubt I could 
use 1000 gallons. Gas ranges and ovens just don't use that much gas.
On the other hand, if you use the oven a lot and you like it really warm
and toasty in the house during the winter, well,...

>PART TWO: is this a good deal ?

I don't think so. On the other hand, I have gotten the impression that gas
(propane) usage, prices, etc. are regionally dependent. Where I live,
Amerigas would go bankrupt, nobody would touch them if they knew better.
But then maybe that's the key.

Jim Muchow - $1.1179? I've never paid that much, not even in the depths of
             winter
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke)
Subject: Re: Staining Cedar Siding
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:57:57 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

This may not help you exactly but thouht I'd pass it along:
 
We're building a new home here in Colorado. Exterior is 8" wide redwood
boards, which are overlapped, like clapboard, not tongue-and-grooved.
The redwood was only red for 2 weeks, then it turned brown. Very 
interesting. In any case, here's what the pro's who stained it did:
 
1. Used a caulk gun and sealed every corner edge of the redwood, i.e.
   the corners, around the windows, under the eaves, etc..  No bugs
   in, no water in (hopefully).
 
2. Covered all the windows with very light plastic and masking tape. 
   This only takes about 2 hours.
 
3. Mixed up the stain/sealer. Ours was almost transparent, with only a
   tint of pigment.  Any good paint store like Sherwin Williams will
   make up to 10 stain/pigment samples for you free.
 
4. Using a power sprayer, two men took less than 6 hours total to do the
   entire 3-level 5000 sq. foot house. 
 
They recommended we redo the stain after the first two years, and then
every 3-4 years thereafter.  They estimated the total cost for them to 
redo our house would be $1300 dollars. This included labor and material.
 
Note: They wore those little masks over their faces and wore disposable
      paper-like coveralls. 
 

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: DYI Ceramic Tile -- Questions
Reply-To: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 17:23:39 GMT
Keywords: dyi tile questions

In article <1992Aug13.154747.3982@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> carter@spot.Colorado.EDU (Mike Carter) writes:

>Now the big questions.  First, are we roped into having to use Durock or some 
>equivalent on top of the underlayment?  I would really like to minimize the 
>thickness of anything that I have to put under the tile so that the floor 
>height between the tile and our hardwood is close.

I put down marble over plywood in a bathroom. I used a compound which Home
Depot sells which consists of a sort of mortar and an acrylic binder. The
salesperson said the acrylic was necessary when using it over wood. The
directions on the acrylic state that it's designed for your sort of job.

They also state that you need a minimum of either
  a. A combination of a 5/8" subfloor and 5/8" ply or particle board.
- or -
  b. A 1" thick plywood or particle board floor.

You've got the first, so you could use this stuff to glue your tile
directly down.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | I pity the man who don't drink, 'cause when he
George Patterson -  | gets up in the morning, that's as good as he's
                    | going to feel the whole day.
                    |                             Joe E. Brown
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jheath@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Shooting, Poisoning, Cruelty
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:44:26 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

From article <CARL.92Aug16162956@atlantis.Cayman.COM>, by carl@Cayman.COM (Carl Heinzl):
> 
>>Here's a man who has probably never been burglarized
>>or mugged.
> 
>>Some of us are just tired of the assholes winning
>>all the time.
> 
> Hmmm, reminds me of an old saying...
> 
> "A liberal is just a conservative who hasn't been mugged yet"
> 
> Please forgive me if I've badly butchered the saying but the idea is
> clear.
>

The way I remember hearing it was "A conservative is a liberal
who has just been mugged"

There was also "A liberal is a conservative who has just been
endicted." 
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: suzanne@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Suzanne McCaffrey)
Subject: Re: Lead Paint in Houses:  What to do
Keywords: lead, pollution
Organization: San Francisco State University
Distribution: us 
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 22:47:15 GMT

the principal concern regarding lead paint & houses, is that when the
paint becomes old and starts to flake, especially around windows and
doors, this paint is then possibly ingested by the unwary - children.

lead will remain in the body system, accumulates with lead ingested from
old leaded gasoline fumes etc, and cumulatively starts its deleterious
effects on the body.

otherwise, lead at this level of use has very little effect on life.

the concentrations of lead paints in manufacturing plants, at the level
of a professional housepainter, or at similar industrial levels and
their disposal methods, however, can use further examination.

liability? throw that to a couple of lawyers and see how deleterious
that will be.

('sides - leadpaint prevents people with xray vision from seeing one
traipse about in one's under/or/no-wear behind the walls of one's
house.)

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: garyp@gvls2.gvl.unisys.com (Gary Palangian)
Subject: Cheap House Stuff
Organization: Unisys Defense Systems, Great Valley Labs, Paoli, Pa
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 23:29:08 GMT



Hey Now,

    I'm looking for mail order sources for faucets, lighting
fixtures, and kitchen appliances.  Anybody got something for
me?

    If you want lessons learned, e-mail.
From: dwb@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (david.boyle)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Another brick patio question
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:23:53 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Aug13.152612.11962@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>, sns@bondi.jpl.nasa.gov (Sam Southard) writes:
> patio stuff deleted
> 
> I plan to make a wall around the base of the tree and put a planter around the
> tree, but I'm not sure how far from the tree the wall should be.  I know not to
> change the ground level of the tree, so this planter would probably either be a
> place to put pots of flowers or I'd construct a planter box which was supported
> off the ground.


How come you can't change the ground level of the tree?
Is it improper to build a 2-2.5 foot tall planter around a tree and then
just fill it with dirt?  Was thinking of doing just that around a pine
(not sure of the variety) tree in my yard.  The tree is currently about
30 feet tall if that matters.  Thanks.  Dave
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: marks@ssdevo.enet.dec.com (Randy Marks)
Subject: Re: HELP: How to get the earnest money back !!!
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp. - Colorado Springs
Distribution: USA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 06:12:23 GMT


In article <1992Aug12.111211.19634@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, long-jan@cae.wisc.edu (Long-jang Li) writes...
> 
>  Recently, we made an offer to buy our first home here at Madion, WI through
>"First Realty" agents.  We paid $2000 as the earnest money.
> 
>  However, the deal failed on Aug, 1 due to the home inspection results (a
>contigency of the offer).
> 
>  The agent then notified us that he had requested our earnest money be 
>returned and it would take a few days.  Up to now, Aug. 12, we havn't got
>it back.
> 
>  

You should contact the Board of Realtors in the area you live.
They can give you a definitive answer to your questions.
What's more, if the agent who has your earnest money is
conducting business improperly, the Board of Realtors will be able
to afford the leverage you need.

	Randy Marks
(UUCP)	                {decvax,ucbvax,allegra}!decwrl!ssdevo.enet!marks
(INTERNET)              marks@ssdevo.enet.dec.com
(domain-based INTERNET) marks%ssdevo.enet@decwrl.dec.com
..........................................................................
	"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe
	while the legislature is in session."
..........................................................................
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house