HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bartb@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbitt)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Scopes Hitting Eye/Forhead
Date: 15 Nov 92 14:28:15 GMT

I thing the biggest problem regarding rifle scopes hitting folks during
recoil is that the scope was mounted improperly in the first place.
A `competetent' gunsmith will mount the scope only when the rifle's
owner is present.  This way, the 'smith can put the scope as far forward
as it's eye relief permits as the rifle is shouldered by the shooter in
a sitting position.  When a scope is so mounted and the shooter shoulders
the rifle in the standing position, most of the field of view is seen.
But more importantly, when sitting, or prone for that matter, the scope
is far enough forward and won't hit the shooter during recoil.

When scopes are mounted in this position, shooting from a bench typically
causes an even less field of view in the eyepiece.  But that's OK as from
a bench, the center of the field of view is typically the only important
part anyway.  If a scope is mounted for full field view as shot from a
bench and it's on a heavy kicker, chances of the `Weatherby Ring' will
definitely increase.  A `Weatherby Ring' is a term African white hunters
gave the round scar, or wound, caused by heavy recoiling rifles whose
shooter had the scope mounted too far back.  Some shops even to this
day sell patches with a reticule with a red drip at its bottom.  These
patches would be presented to shooters who suffered from eyepiecesus
impactus.

I've probably seen a hundred or more folks over the years at any-rifle
any-sight long range matches who sighted in their new magnum from a bench
with the scope positioned for full field view.  While their first shot's
report was still echoing around the range, it was somewhat quieter than
the verbal exclamations of pain from the shooter.
From: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu (John Stephens Cronin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: x-country skiing and target shooting
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:40:33 GMT
Organization: Common Container Liberation Front


In article <1992Nov22.215307.24483@wixer.cactus.org> wixer!wixer.cactus.org!will@cs.utexas.edu (Bill Staniewicz) writes:
#My questions are:
#
#What is the name of this sport?

Biathlon, if my memory of the Olympics is correct.

#What type of rifle and ammo is used?

Specialized target rifles (probably bolt action), in .22 LR

-- 
John Cronin	Internet: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu	Phone: (404) 876-1419
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live each day as if it's your last.  One day you'll be right.  -- me
Lighten up, you're gonna die whether you have fun or not.      -- me again
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LASERs - rangefinders?
Date: 15 Nov 92 14:28:20 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1992Nov13.013459.7257@ke4zv.uucp> ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:
#Now radar or laser ranging works a different way. A pulse of energy is
#sent out and the interval until a return is received is timed. Since
#radio and light waves travel at the speed of light, 300,000 km/s, one
#half the time interval multiplied by 300,000 gives the distance in
#km to the target. Now for the kind of ranges we are interested in for
#firearms use, the timing is in the nanosecond range. That's hard to 
#do cheaply and accurately.

I haven't looked into cost, but Howowitz and Hill discusses time 
interval measurements and mentions a fairly straight-forward
approach accurate to with resolution of ~2ns, and a more 
complex method, (apparently built into the HP 5370B), accurate
to 20ps (2e-11 sec). Both can be made more accurate by mulitpule
measurement averaging. Those correspond to measuring distances
to 60cm and .6cm respectively. I'd think rifle fire would only
require accuracy ~3m or so, or 10ns resolution. If you average
this over (say) 100 pulses (pulsing at ~50 Hz shouldn't be a problem,
nor should averaging the measurements), you can get this kind of
accuracy with 100ns resolution on each measurement. That would
require (according to Horowitz and Hill) a 10MHz oscillator and
a couple of chips that can handle that sort of speed. I don't think
this would be so expensive...

I think the big expense would be the laser, and a detector that
could pick up the returning signal against a daylight background.
The reflected sunlight might be on the order of a kilowatt, while
the laser would probably be only a few miliwatts. You would need
either a UV laser (which are, as I recall, quite expensive) or
a very narrow bandwidth fliter (to remove most of the background
light, while passing the laser light.) Either case is going to cost...

                                               Frank Crary
                                               CU Boulder
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Defense/Combat Questions
Date: 20 Nov 92 13:46:39 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com (Dana Rigg) writes:

#Personally, I would not use a flashlight in my own home.  First, it tells
#the bad guy where you are and destroys your peripheral vision.  Second, you
#already have the advantage of knowing the layout of your home.

	I'm amazed nobody brought it up already -- turn on the room light.
The switches are usually located near convenient doorways to hide behind,
and your perp has no idea where the switch that turned on that *&*^$ light
is at.  It will take him just as long as you to adjust his eyes to the
light, and perhaps less as the natural reaction is to squeeze your eyes
shut in pain if you're not ready for it.  Since you have a good idea of
where he is anyway, and know the layout of the room, the light will not
give you away most likely (unlike a flashlight), will illuminate the
whole room, and you can flick it off again should you feel better off
not trying to hold him at that time.

	Naw, it's too simple.  What am I missing?

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<  "This isn't an answer, it's a pagan dance around a midnight fire  >
<   written in intellectual runes." -- Rich Young                    >

	[MODERATOR:  A related suggestion, passed along at the risk of
	 giving away too much of our own tactical plans ... we installed
	 an, hmm, enhanced version of those X10 home control systems. In
	 our safe room(s) we can flood the whole house with light, very
	 selectively (and largely automatically... :-)  Our intent is not
	 only to make the back-lit Bad Guy look astonishingly like a B-27
	 target, but also make him feel that way too.  With a little fooling
	 around you can also set up alternate programs for use when you get
	 home (rather than for when you ARE at home and need to dig in.)]
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Defense/Combat Questions
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:04:21 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <1992Nov17.194417.5071@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, by mxb1517@ultb.isc.rit.edu (M.X. Blair):
# In article <1992Nov17.023122.7776@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
# 
# [stuff deleted]
# 
# #What we were shown was rather simple.  Hold the flashlight at
# #arms length.  Most bad guys will shoot at the light, and be off
# #by one arms length from your vitals...  You shoot at their muzzle flash...
# 
# 
# 	That is, as long as the ambient light doesn't light up enough of you
# in the process.  Just a point brought up in _Street_Survival_ ( The 
# _Tactical_Edge_ companion ).  [ I've worked for both private and campus
# security - night shift while in college, and this point has been raised
# before.  Basic idea - make sure you can identify your "target" without
# letting them do the same.]
#

This may have been mentioned, but why not get some infrared
equipment.  I think this is legal.  I don't know what a DA might
make of it. 
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: reb@amc.com (Bob Brunjes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Psychology in Defense
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:09:52 GMT
Organization: Applied Microsystems, Redmond, WA

In article <1992Nov12.201437.11050@phx.mcd.mot.com> mcdphx!systemname!gcall@enuucp.eas.asu.edu (Glen Call) writes:
#
#In article <BxH1LF.IAw@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>, callison@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
#|> ##slkdh@cc.usu.edu writes:
#|> ##
#|> ###	I have a friend who wants a Desert Eagle Action Express (.50 cal) for
#|> ###the same reason.  He figures that if he shoots it once the size of the gun and
#|> ###the sound of it fireing will scare any assailant into humble, penitent
#|> ###submission.
#|> 
#|> Out of curiousity, just how many of you have actually set off a
#|> round in your domicile? I have, and it is a _VERY_ disorienting
#|> experience. 
#
#
#Definitely.  I shudder to think of the impact of firing a .357 or .44 magnum inside the close confines of a hallway.  To think some people keep deer rifles around for self-defense!
I _have_ had an AD with a particularly nasty-sounding .44 Mag in an
8x10 room.  I was not aware there was a gun involved until my
(old-model) Super Blackhawk slid out of some hunting clothing and
fell on its hammer.  Imagine 26 grains of 2400 behind a 180-grain
Super-Vel in a small room.  Yes, I was stunned.  (Incidentally,
for those of you concerned with the deadly over-penetration, the
bullet came apart passing through a sheetrock wall.)

On the other hand, I have fired .44 Magnums on an indoor range
with the _accoustics_ of an 8x10 room with little damage to my
psyche.  Yes, it was a long time ago; yes, I was dumb; yes, I
did permanent damage to my hearing (huh?); no, I wasn't
stunned.

I guess it's a matter of context.  When I am pointing a .44
magnum revolver and pulling the trigger, I am not stunned when
I hear a .44 Magnum shot.  When I am hitting the spacebar or
opening a toothpaste tube and I hear a .44 Magnum shot, yes,
I am stunned.


Bob Brunjes		Applied Microsystems Corp
			Redmond, WA
			reb@amc.com
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:15:18 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <Bxu306.AGz@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> callison@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
#
#I realize that this could get a little bit off the charter, but I'm
#actually more interested in what you can _legally_ do around the 
#country, given the above circumstances, and come out of it with your
#freedom intact.

I suspect that the *law* is about the same everywhere, IE you can't
use deadly force unless a *reasonable* person would be in fear for
their life. Unfortunately the problem is the definition of a reasonable
person. In rural Georgia, a "reasonable" person might feel that if the
dog barked he had a right to waste the scum. In more "liberal" cities,
you really should have some marks of violence on your person before a
"reasonable" person would consider you had the right to use *any* force,
much less *deadly* force. Know your local political climate even better
than you know the law.

Gary
From: bz269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James D. Del Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AMT .380, Colt Mustang, or other?
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:16:23 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, (James D. Del Vecchio) says:

#There is no functional distiction between "safe" action and single 
	     ^^^^^^^^^^	
#action ala 1911 with a long heavy pull.   There is nothing to distinguish 

"practical", I meant to type, (ie no need to post about how 
safe action half cocks via the trigger, etc.).
JD
From: vvdag@alliant1.lerc.nasa.gov (Don Georgevich)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Ruger MarkII FOR SALE!
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:40:20 GMT
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center

FOR SALE!

Ruger MarkII .22 caliber

Barrel length: 6 5/8"
Blue steel
Adjustable sight
Three 10-shot clips
Original box and manuals
About 5 years old
MINT condition - rarely used

$175.00

don

PS- I will be selling the gun from Lorain, Ohio.
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Fletchette
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:11:01 GMT


Matt Moore writes:
#Any such ammunition would be illegal for American civilians because the
#flechettes must be made of some hard material, such as steel or uranium,
#which would fall under the materials-oriented definition of "armor
#piercing ammunition".

Flechettes are made of steel, like their cousins nails :)

And no they are NOT illegal for civilians, because while the AP bullet
bans are materials-oriented, they also specify HANDGUN ammunition. Notice
that 7.62mm NATO AP is banned because there are .308 handguns, while
7.9x57 Mauser AP is abundant.


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
Geordi: "...it's like the laws of physics went right out the
window." Q: "And why shouldn't they? They're so inconvenient."
From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Shooting Qualification
Date: 23 Nov 92 14:25:03 GMT
Organization: who knows

klofgren@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Bart Man ) writes...
# 
#I am interested in finding out what score??? one would 
#have to get in order to qualify for a handgun?  I am
#not exactly talking about competition shooting, or combat
#quals, but for example on a standard NRA bullseye type 
#target, how many rounds must be placed in what rings, at
#what distance to *qualify*.  I guess the bottom line is...
#what level do I have to be shooting at to consider myself
#to be *good* or *bad*???

In NRA bullseye shooting the classification is as follows:

master......95% and above
expert......90-95
sharpshooter...85-90
marksman ......below 85


These classifications are given after shooting 360 shots at standard
targets at standard distances.  If you want the standard target sizes 
and courses of fire, let me know.  One example is the 50 yd. slow fire
target with 3.39" 10-ring where you shot 10 shots in 10 mins.
From: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .45 caliber handguns
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:32:45 GMT
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

In article <1992Nov17.023032.19198@igor.tamri.com> donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) writes:
#....
#Anyway, after all that rambling, here is the question I would like to
#ask:
#    Is it possible for me to get an accurate 1911 Colt/clone for less
#    than the price of a Gold Cup (about $800) and STILL have it be a
#    versatile combat handgun?
#
#If the answer is NO, I will have to consider my next two choices (Sig P220
#or Glock 21 (both excellent guns but I LIKE the Colt) more seriously OR save
#a long time and get the Gold Cup.

Let me take a shot again. :)

I would ask myself what do I need this gun for. Assuming that I want a 45,
*I* would get a SIG P220 for defense purpose, and get a basic 1911 clone
and have lots of work done for target shooting purpose.

My understanding/experience is that a NIB 1911 *may* need some work done to be
reliable/accurate. A Sig P220, on the other hand, is *usually* very good out 
of box. *I* feel a Sig P220 has less recoil than a 1911 in its stock form,
which can be a big plus in rapid fire. However, an all-out 1911 should be
faster in target shooting; otherwise, those top IPSC shooters won't use
them.

The bottom line is that you may want to determine what this 45 is needed
for. Just my .02.

David
-- 
 K. David Lin, Ph.D.              | E-mail: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com  
 Communication Services Research  | Defend your life with style! -- Beretta
 U S WEST Advanced Technologies   | Disclaimer: Only personal opinions
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: BATF info letter 11-16-92  (false info?)
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:15:44 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

Follow ups directed to talk.politics.guns.

In article <1e953qINN3tg@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bz269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James D. Del Vecchio) writes:
#"In addition, any machinegun manufactured after
#May 19,1986 would be subject to the restrictions
#of 18 U.S.C. 992(o), which precludes private
#possession." 

#	What gives?  I thought that the restriction was deemed
#invalid in parts of the country by a federal court?

As I understand it, there are two restrictions: The BATF will not
accept transfer tax payments on a fairly wide class of automatic
weapons _and_ the outright ban on private possession of such
arms made after 1986. There have been court rulings invalidating 
the first restriction (if they won't _let_ you pay the tax, they
can't arrest you for not paying the tax.) This applies to buyers
in Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, Kansas, New Mexico and Oklahoma and
to sellers in Northern Illinois. (By the way, even if you live
in one of these areas, don't try it without talking to a lawyer...
BATF may arrest you even if the courts will eventually throw out
the case...) As far as I know, there has not been a court challange
to the ban on post-1986 automatic weapons.

                                             Frank Crary
                                             CU Boulder
From: wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: BATF info letter 11-16-92  (false info?)
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:16:11 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1e953qINN3tg@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bz269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James D. Del Vecchio) writes:
#
#[Re: no transfer of NFA firarm serial numbers even if the original
#firearm is destroyed]
#
#
#"In addition, any machinegun manufactured after
#May 19,1986 would be subject to the restrictions
#of 18 U.S.C. 992(o), which precludes private
#possession." 
#
#	What gives?  I thought that the restriction was deemed
#invalid in parts of the country by a federal court?
#
#Jim Del Vecchio
#

But, if you don't live in the districts effected by the decisions,
then they do not apply to you. There are also a host of other
state and federal laws they can hang you on.



-- 
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Wayne J. Warf -- WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu -- I speak for myself only  |
 | Midterm Countdown-Bill and the Congress have to '94 to screw it up |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rifle Case
Date: 22 Nov 92 03:18:01 GMT
Organization: University of Kentucky, USA. -5 GMT

My favorites are the Pellican Vault cases (now bought out by Browning and
called "Browning Travel Vaults").
They are made from a *very* tough plastic and are quite rugged! They also
are waterproof and have a "bleed-valve" built in.
I have one of my politically-incorrect ARs in a 35" version.
They are lockable, and just look like a black rectangular case.
From: boardman%cancer.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Bob Boardman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LASERs - rangefinders?
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:11:39 GMT
Organization: UNM Cancer Center


 
    Everybody responding to this thread seems to think they've got to build
  a laser rangefinder from parts.  No one has even mentioned that there are
  commercial versions currently available.  If you watched any of the
  Americas Cup sailboat races, you would have seen them in use - they were
  about the size of one of the old reflex-type cameras (maybe 8" tall by
  5" wide & deep), with a pistol grip with trigger on the bottom.  You
  sighted through a viewfinder near the top and pressed the trigger, and
  it gave a digital readout of distance to the target.
    Of course, given the millions they spent on the boats, who knows how
  much these little gizmos cost....

  -Bob

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|**I _AM_ a member of a well-regulated militia - self-regulated, that is!!!!**|
| Bob Boardman,Albuquerque,New Mexico - NRA LIFE, NMSSA, Zia Rifle&Pistol Club|
|        internet:boardman@cancer.unm.edu    bitnet:BOARDMAN@UNMB             |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: tdwebste@sparta.uwaterloo.ca (Timothy D. Webster)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Weapon for defense from cows
Date: 23 Nov 92 14:24:57 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo

In article <1992Nov22.202755.1002@netcom.com> feustel@netcom.com (David Feustel) writes:
#How about a flare gun used as a grenade launcher? :-)

You idiot, you will start a stampede. You might have a chance in front
of one animal, but in front of stampede you could just end up dead! 

Some basic rules always make some noise when around cattle. Nothing
scares or upsets them more than someone sneaking around. 

Don't let calves push you around. They have long memories and
won't take you on if they remember the time you through him on his back
and held him there. 

Avoid crowed pens of cattle resently moved into a new environment. 

Feed them don't beet them. This works if they are your cattle.
Surprising this works for even the meanest breads.

Basic defence usually only requries a thick stick, cattle prod, some
rocks and some really angry noise as they approach you. 

*******************

P.S. I stood in front of more than once stampede once, they told me I 
was rounding them up. :-) The cattle just ran arround me. I used the 
Basic defence.  I have however been gored and crush against a wall. 
 
I agree with everyone else if you do have a crazed animal, it is him or
you and about that simple.

-Tim.
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Plastic Magazines
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:39:20 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

My experience with the Ramline/Ruger MkII magazines is that the work fine
when loaded with 10 or 11 bullets, but jam when loaded with 12.  These
were 12 round mags, I haven't had any of the 14 round ones (or did I read
some of the posts wrong?).  My wife liked them because they were easier to
load.  After we got some of those plastic widgets for depressing the
springs on the regular magazines, we pretty much quit using the Ramline
ones, but we never had one break.
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)