HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hinz@bonfire (David Hinz Mfg 4-6987)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Eddings vs. Tolkien
Date: 31 Jul 92 11:04:40 GMT
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Magnetic Resonance
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

matth@terapin.com (Matt Houlahan) writes:
:  Don't jump on me and
: pull out the flamethrower quite yet, because I'm not saying that the Mallorean
: was junk. I liked it alot, but when you compare it to the Belgariad, I'm sure
: you'll agree that the story was lacking. It didn't butcher the original plot or
: world, but IMHO it didn't compare with Belgariad and sort of ruined the ending
: of it...

(not a flame)

I, personally, thought that the Mallorean was superior to the Belgariad, probably
because Eddings' style had matured considerably with experience.  The B' had 
a lot of battle strategy & some stuff that I considered to be 'filler', where
the Mallorean seemed to bring up issues that expanded on the whole worldd
that he has created.

I would like to see a third series, which delves into the world of
demons vs. Eriond, or the pre-Garion days, or both!

--

Dave Hinz  -  Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's.  Obviously.
Pherrets are Phun!! 
SAAB - Because you get what you pay for.
hinz@picard.med.ge.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: 10642749@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (MARTIN OLBRICH)
Subject: Re: Tolkien vs. Eddings (the battle rages on)
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 09:04:52 GMT

In article <76359@ut-emx.uucp> ginsu@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Wes Simonds) writes:

>kick butt.  Further, of all the countries in the Belgariad, only 
Ulgoland>and Riva seem to me to be really original; Cherek is plainly drawn 
from the>Viking North of the Middle Ages, Tolnedra from Rome, Arendia from 
Arthurian>legends (Mandorallen is really just Lancelot with a prettier 
face), etc.

 I think you'll find that Tolkien did this too, if you care to dig deeply 
enough, although he tended to do this more with his characters and cultures.
For instance, many of the beings (especially those who aren't main 
characters) may be found scattered through a variety of mythologies, 
including Irish, Norse, Celtic etc... Tolkien then changes the name of the 
beast (ever so slighty) and slots him (/her, /it??) beautifully into the 
trilogy, usually with blobs of the original story still attached.
 In a similar vein, doesn't Mordor sound ominous?? ..it's not surprising 
since mordor is old english for murder.
 Read and enjoy,
 Marty.   

Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: proct_hately@hg.uleth.ca (Kintair of Hawkehaven MKA Bill Hately)
Subject: Re: Eddings vs. Tolkien
Reply-To: proct_hately@hg.uleth.ca
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:45:49 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.161429.202061@uctvax.uct.ac.za>, 
vhspet01@uctvax.uct.ac.za (Peter van Heusden) writes:
>In article <1992Jul20.173508.202050@uctvax.uct.ac.za>, 
glngar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>> IN MY OPINION,EDDINGS IS THE MASTER OF FANTASY(EVEN BETTER THAN TOLKIEN-A 
>>SOUTH
>> AFRICAN BY BIRTH I SHOULD TELL YOU.)
>
>Heresy! How can you say this! I do not have the time to discuss this in full,
>but to even compare Eddings and Tolkien on the same scale is ludicrous. Eddings
>is good, if a bit stilted, light fantasy, whereas Tolkien's is a full
>subcreation. (By the way, Tolkien's South African connections are minimal to
>say the least. His writings show no hint of influence)
>
>As for the characters: Well, obviously many of Tolkien's characters are not as
>human as Eddings', since they aren't human. OK. I hate Elves too, and 
>believe that Tolkien made a stylistic and thematic error in presenting them
>as he did, but overall, I, and I believe most of the fantasy reading community,
>would give the mastership awards to Tolkien, and applaud Eddings as the 
>writer of a interesting little comic ditty.
>
>Peter

Good Day people, I have been quiet for a while, and was rather hoping to see
smileys at the end of the last post.  Tolkien is acceptable reading, but He
certainly is by no means "The Master of Fantasy" - He was early, and good, but
there is a lot out there now that is one hell of a lot better, and much more
interesting and well developed.  Maybe I feel this way because Tolkien wasn't
the first Fantasy I ever read, so by the time I got to him everything was old
hat.  Calling Eddings work light fantasy and Tolkien a full subcreation is
asinine, Eddings has gone in depth into every one of his nationalities,
every culture has it's own quirks and customs, even the stock characters are
slightly rounded.  You don't get that in Tolkien, or half the other Authors
people have been claiming to be Great.  I'm not saying that DE is the all
round best Authour I have ever read - I won't say that about any of them,
however I get sick of people saying how great Tolkien is just because he was
one of the first fantasy Epic writers. (I won't even go into my opinions of
Donaldson). Well I'll get off the soap box for now, flame me if you want but
I'll be damned if I'll listen to such rubbish any more
Bill
Kintair of Hawkehaven          | Bill Hately   | Talk (403) 381-1741
Shire of Windwyrm              | Lethbridge AB | proct_hately@hg.uleth.ca
Crown Principality of Avacal   | Canada        | Smile Dammit
An Tir (I wouldn't dream of subjecting any corp. or Educational Institution to
        these opinions, so they certainly aren't the opinions of the UofL)
  (And I'm not an officer of the SCA so I can't have an official opinion There
              - even if I wanted to )
Life is a Sexually Transmitted Terminal Condition
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: u907736@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Edmund Chia)
Subject: Re: Tolkien, Eddings, Donaldson
Organization: University of Tasmania
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 07:20:34 GMT

In article <BPOSTOW.92Jul24013854@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>, bpostow@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Brian Postow) writes:

(stuff deleted)

> LOTR/Hobbit is taken very much from Germanic mythology, this is known
> by many people, he based it onGerman myths, ok fine. However, what
> isn't known, or at least what I didn't know is that the story is
> extremely simmilar to The Ring of the Niebelung [sorry about spelling]
> any Wagner fans will recognize this as the Ring cycle of operas,
> others just need to know that it is a Germanic tale with Gods and
> valkyrie and heros and stuff.

(stuff deleted)

> --
> Brian Postow :: The Pasta Knight - that noodle head in shiny armour
> reachable at:
> bpostow@occs.oberlin.edu
> sbp2530@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu		this space left unintentionally blank.
> sbp2530@oberlin.bitnet.edu


No wonder I have always felt that parts of LOTR read like an opera in
print. I mean most of the BATTLES including the 'climatic' final battle
involved A LOT of sword waving and battle cries and VERY LITTLE blood or
sweat, etc. You get an impression of Aragon waving his sword(whatit'sname),
surrounded by a glow of righteousness, singing out heoric war cries/songs
while orcs and other evil creature-types cower back in fear. Compared to
Robert E. Howard, Tolkien's battles belonged in an opera. At least Edding's
battles may be considered as 'battles'. However, I still love Middle-Earth.

Edmund
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: steve@sdf.lonestar.org (Steve Fuller)
Subject: Eddings on TV!
Organization: sdf Public Access UNIX, Dallas--unrestricted free shell access
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 15:39:38 GMT

Well, his book at least...

a girl reading Diamond Throne actually. A PBS show called Degrassi High.

Steve Fuller
steve@sdf.lonestar.org
From: umcho000@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Connie Cho)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Eddings vs. Tolkien
Date: 22 Jul 92 18:14:38 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

In article <24019@castle.ed.ac.uk> crs@castle.ed.ac.uk (C R Smart) writes:
>Too often writers are compared to Tolkien when all they have done is
>write a sequence of books.
>
>There is no way that I would consider the work of Eddings to have the
>imaginative volume that the work of Tolkien has.  The characters in
>Eddings work are fairly shallow with the possible exceptions of Silk
>and Barak.  None of the characters in his latest(?) triolgy "The
>Ellenium" carry much weight.
>
>All the above aside I still enjoy his work particularly "The
>Belgariad."

Well, I rather hated the Hobbit, which was rather less imaginative
than a boiled turnip. I happen to agree that the different races
and cultures are handled much better by Eddings than Tolkein, who
had it rather uniform (hmm, I think that could very well have
been influenced by the nationality and era of the respective
authors), at least as humans went. You know, though, I never
really think of Eddings and Tolkein as particularly comparable;
and I don't think Eddings would want it either. The Belgariad
is much lighter in tone, but that's fine by me. Somehow I cannot
see Gandalf lying and scratching and belching like Belgarath or
Beldin, so I say, give me B&B any day! I did find The Elenium
more along the line of Tolkein.s stuff, because its treatment
of theology, Church crisis, etc. had arealistic flavor to it.
I happen to really like the Elenium, but I found Flute's
character really beginning to strain my patience, because she
somehow seems out of place. I think it's because she was 
becoming less a Goddess in my mind than some extraordinarily
gifted human, and too commonplace. Whatever, it's weak.

Incidentally, the name which immediately pops into my mind
in comparison to Tolkein is Terry Brooks, and not because
of quality. I couldn't believe how *similar* some of his
stuff is, so much so that when he does have good snippets
I immediately suspect him of literary chicanery.

CKC
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:52:21 EDT
From: <DSF105@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Movie vs. Animation

Folks:

    I'll state my opinion right away on the whole debate:
if a version of the Belgariad were tobe filmed, I believe
that live action is the only way to go.  I'm not demeaning
the work of the Disney Studios or Ralph Bakshi here (al-
though everything I've seen of Don Bluth is way, WAY too
cutesy).  I merely think that special effects today *are*
up to the challenge of adapting Eddings' work to a live
action movie.

    The budget might not be as high as some expect in the
years to come.  Case in point:  a recent tire commercial
features the same "liquid" ray-tracing effects that so
dazzled people in THE ABYSS and TERMINATOR 2.  Phenomenal
special effects are now only a souped-up computer away.
(Provided, of course, one has the expertise to use it!)

    I think that the real argument *against* a film of
the Belgariad is not whether live action of animation is
best, however.  I feel that no feature-length movie could
include everything that made Eddings' first epic so
great.  "Trim," you may say.  "Nay," I reply.  All of
the dialogue and all of the encounters constituted the
Belgariad, not just the slick action scenes, the grand
battles, and the subtle romance scenes between Garion &
Ce'Nedra.  If the Belgariad were trimmed to even two and
a half hours, these are likely to be the only elements
remaining.  Forget characters or any coherent plot!

    To keep this as concise as possible, let me call to
mind another sf/fantasy film doomed by its epic source:
DUNE.  David Lynch did his best to adapt Herbert's novel
to the screen, but practicalities ruined his work.  No
theater wanted to show a genre movie nearly three hours
long.  (Lynch and Dune scholars, forgive any error in this
statement. . . three hours is the estimate I've heard most
frequently.)

    If you loved the Belgariad, think about *everything*
that made it great.  Now ask yourself, "Would it all fit
into two or three hours?"

    (I'd discuss miniseries(es?) but I've got to run.)

                            --- Derek S. Felton
                                dsf105 @ psuvm.psu.edu
From: wright@latcs2.lat.oz.au (Michael G. Wright)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Eddings vs. Tolkien
Date: 26 Jul 92 13:37:04 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

In article <1992Jul25.235737.8945@uoft02.utoledo.edu> lchang@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:

[some stuff deleted]

>	I, too, hope that Eddings won't abandon these characters (tho'
>I have to say, the Mallorean wasn't very open-ended). I think Eddings
>has a good potential plot in the past (Belgarath and Polgara), aand also
>in Hell (literally). In the Seeress of Kell, the voice in Garion's
>head said the Hell is totally different universe from their own, so...
>Some crisis with the Lord o' Hell, and there ya go! :)

Well, it's funny that you should mention the Hell storycatch, because I've
been playing the Belgariad MUD for a short time now and I think that Hell
plays a significant part in that storyline!

P.S. Just a plug.... You should all go check out Belgariad. It's really cool.

-- 
Michael Wright            _-_|\     Peg- "Al, can I have a thousand bucks?" 
LaTrobe University,      /     \     Al- "Why sure honey, have you got change
Melbourne, Australia.    \_.-_*/          for a million?"
wright@latcs1.lat.oz.au       v                Married with children. :-)
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Thursday, 23 Jul 1992 11:38:30 EDT
From: <IO11092@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Tolkien, Eddings, Donaldson
 <1992Jul23.054405.17992@newsroom.utas.edu.au>

Oh stop. I think your opinions are a bit off consiring you're trashing best sel
lers. Perhaps most readers these days like 'trash'? and besides this is alt.FAN
.eddings not alt.trash.eddings  .you like to be flamed? well I'm sure this is t
he mildest one you'll read.
From: matth@terapin.com (Matt Houlahan)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: RE: Belgariad Movie
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:34:39 GMT
Organization: BBS


   I'd love to see the Belgariad made into a movie as well, but I don't think
that having an animated series would do it justice. I mean, look at the US's
attitude towards animation. They just feel that it's stuff to amuse the kids on
saturday morning, and not to be taken seriously. The Belgariad has a
(relatively)serious plot. I mean, at least there are no fat cats or women
pulling 10t mallets out of thin air (which is not all bad, mind you). This fact
alone I feel will almost doom the idea as no company would be willing to invest
the capital needed. 
   Also, it seems that whenever an animated film is take seriously (I've seen
about three), it just lacks something. It's not really something that I could
put my finger on right now, but I know it's there.
    
   And if it does happen, I hope they don't give any characters a mentality
anything like C-Ko!!!!

-Matt
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: crmilton@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Christopher Robert MILTON)
Subject: Origins of Eddings' different peoples
Summary: Where I think DE gets his ideas for his races
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 11:51:58 GMT

	Noticed someone mention how Tolkein based his stories
on Norse mythology or something and just thought I'd mention where
I think Eddings' gets the basis for all his races : from different 
peoples all over the Earth in different time periods...

	I'll elaborate. This is just where I've always thought all the
different races derive from...

	Chereks	:	Vikings (obviously - need I say more)	
	Drasnians :	Russians (cold, northern, secretive place)
	Nadraks :	Middle East/Arabs (they're almost gypsy-like, they
			own their women - and these women belly dancy)
	Arends :	English Middle Ages (the Knights joust etc., the 
			Asturians are like Robin Hood and his archers)
	Tolnedrans :	Ancient Rome (they have legions of troops, political
			intrigue, an emporer and bath houses!)
	Nyissans :	The Orient (drugs, slave trade)
	Algarians :	American Indians (horses, pony tail of Hettar!)

	I haven't really thought about the other races yet though I think 
somewhere/when on Earth could apply.  This is just a theory I thought
up anyway...

	Any views?
	Chris.

+------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+
| Chris Milton.                | email address : crmilton@mundil.cs.mu.oz.au |
| Computer Science.            |  					     |
| University of Melbourne.     | "Christ, himself, on the cross,             |
| Utterly insignificant little |  Told the guy who banged in the nail,       |
|  blue-green planet.          |  'Mate, things, they can't be all that bad, |
| Unfashionable end of the     |   When Derryn Hinch goes to jail'"          |
|  western spiral arm of       |                                             |
|  the Galaxy.                 |             This Is Serious Mum (T.I.S.M.)  |
+------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+
From: proct_hately@hg.uleth.ca (Kintair of Hawkehaven MKA Bill Hately)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Eddings on TV!
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:52:58 GMT
Reply-To: proct_hately@hg.uleth.ca
Organization: University of Lethbridge

In article <ins450m.712283467@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au>, 
ins450m@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (T.F. Eccles) writes:
>steve@sdf.lonestar.org (Steve Fuller) writes:
>
>>Well, his book at least...
>
>>a girl reading Diamond Throne actually. A PBS show called Degrassi High.
                                            ^^^ CBC (Canadian Broadcasting
Corperation (sold to PBS I think))
>
>KILLL  KILLL I hate DEGRASSI HIGH.
yep  (even though they do hit "relevent issues" in the series)
>Not only is it a load of excrement, it also keeps replacing Dr Who on

Sacrilidge(sp)

>the ABC!!!!
     ^^^ - Australian Broadcasting Corperation?  (shouldn't Be American
Broadcasting Corp. in au I wouldn't think)
>
>ARGH
>Eccles 
Just on a strange note the program started as "The kids of Degrassi Street" and
moved right on up through "Degrassi Jr. High" To "Degrassi High"
(I personally was surprised it lasted so long)
Now back to your Regularly scheduled bouts about Eddings-Tolkien-Feist (and
whoevers brought up next)
Bill
Kintair of Hawkehaven          | Bill Hately   | Talk (403) 381-1741
Shire of Windwyrm              | Lethbridge AB | proct_hately@hg.uleth.ca
Crown Principality of Avacal   | Canada        | Smile Dammit
An Tir (I wouldn't dream of subjecting any corp. or Educational Institution to
        these opinions, so they certainly aren't the opinions of the UofL)
  (And I'm not an officer of the SCA so I can't have an official opinion There
              - even if I wanted to )
Life is a Sexually Transmitted Terminal Condition
From: wright@latcs2.lat.oz.au (Michael G. Wright)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Origins of Eddings' different peoples
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:00:55 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

In article <9220521.29430@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> crmilton@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Christopher Robert MILTON) writes:
>
 [some stuff deleted]

>	Chereks	:	Vikings (obviously - need I say more)	
>	Drasnians :	Russians (cold, northern, secretive place)
>	Nadraks :	Middle East/Arabs (they're almost gypsy-like, they
>			own their women - and these women belly dancy)
>	Arends :	English Middle Ages (the Knights joust etc., the 
>			Asturians are like Robin Hood and his archers)
>	Tolnedrans :	Ancient Rome (they have legions of troops, political
>			intrigue, an emporer and bath houses!)
>	Nyissans :	The Orient (drugs, slave trade)
>	Algarians :	American Indians (horses, pony tail of Hettar!)
>
>	I haven't really thought about the other races yet though I think 
>somewhere/when on Earth could apply.  This is just a theory I thought
>up anyway...
>
>	Any views?
>	Chris.
>
	Yeah, I'd tend to agree with all of these. How about the Malloreans?
I think that the similarities between them and the Tolnedrans would put them
at the same sort of level (Ancient Rome, Greece).

-- 
Michael Wright            _-_|\     Peg- "Al, can I have a thousand bucks?" 
LaTrobe University,      /     \     Al- "Why sure honey, have you got change
Melbourne, Australia.    \_.-_*/          for a million?"
wright@latcs1.lat.oz.au       v                Married with children. :-)
From: tyger@netcom.com (Kitty in the Middle)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: While we are on the subject of Eddings peeves...
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:38:57 GMT
Organization: I said WHAT!?!

How about that cover art? The Belgariad cover art was pretty good, IMHO, 
but the Mallorean cover art was pretty lame, and as for the Elenium, 
what in thunder is that thing on the cover of Ruby Knight? It's not the
Seeker...is it the creature that Tynian accidentally raised from the 
dead? I like the Elenium's cover art, but that lizard thing on the cover 
of Ruby really threw me for a loop.

       Tyger
-- 
      Kristen Kohlbecker    And I would choose to be with you
      tyger@netcom.com      That's if the choice were mine to make   
                            But you can make decisions too
      A Tyger and a Lady    And you can have this heart to break
From: cgirard@neumann.une.edu.au (The Blade of Malchrntyne)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Eddings Backgrounding
Date: 25 Jul 92 03:57:52 GMT
Organization: University of New England, Armidale, Australia

>	Anyway, why is it that Belgarath looks like an old man, but
>Polgara looks like a young to middle aged woman? Hmm? I don't think that's
>really fair. Why isn't Belgarath a young man if sorcerers are supposedly
>immortal? Do they just turn old and then stop aging? I don't really think
>that's very fair. Or, at very least, it's not very realistic. I *guess*
>it could be that disciples of Aldur tend to resmble aldur, and I suppose
>they couldn't let Polgara look like Aldur (now that would be something, eh?).
>

	In the "Pawn of Porphecy", it states in the beginning that when
Belgarath, Cherek and his sons were searching for a way to Mallorea, that
Belgarath took the form of a wolf.  Now, it was the dead of winter, and it
says that the frost caused his ruff and shoulders to become white, and
from then on his hair and beard was white.

	That explains why he had the hair of an older man.  Also, being
male, he would be more likely to grow to look like Aldur, who by choice
appeared as he did, than Polgara.



 The Blade of Malchrntyne (CJ)| There comes a time when the jewels cease to
 Drummond College A100        | sparkle, and the gold loses its lustre, and
 x 3069                       | the throne room becomes a prison - and all
 There can be only one.       | that remains is a father's love for his child


Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: pwy6d@fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU (Phil Yarrington)
Subject: Re: alt.fan.eddings
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 11:28:20 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.173508.202050@uctvax.uct.ac.za> glngar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>I'M GLAD TO SEE THIS NEWSGROUP.
>IN MY OPINION,EDDINGS IS THE MASTER OF FANTASY(EVEN BETTER THAN TOLKIEN-A SOUTH
>AFRICAN BY BIRTH I SHOULD TELL YOU.)

Well, I don't know if I'd go as far as saying "better than Tolkien."

>HE PUTS SO MUCH LIFE INTO HIS CHARACTERS THAT THEY AQUIRE TRUELY HUMAN
>TRAITS & QUIRKS.
>IF YOU REALLY ENJOY HIS WORK YOU WOULD NOT EVEN SEE THE ERRORS (AT LEAST FIRST
>TIME ROUND) AS YOU WOULD BECX  TOO INVOLVED IN THE STORY TO NOTICE OR EVEN
>CARE.
>ACCEPT THE ERRORS AS A PART OF BEING HUMAN AND FORGET THEM.
>
>GARY GLEN-YOUNG   UCT,CAPE TOWN,SOUTH AFRICA

I have to second this opinion, the mistakes don't take away from the
quality of the work.  While I think that there are some minor problems
with his work, it is still very enjoyable, and Eddings does do a
wonderful job of characterization.  Besides, I think that catching typos and
mistakes in the published version of a novel is the responsibility of
the editor, not the author.  You try typing several hundred
thousand words and see if you make any mistakes.

-phil
----------------------------------------------------------------
You are in a position to demand nothing sir,
     I, on the other hand, am in a position to grant .. nothing.
					    -Khan Singh
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings