From: rferrel@ecst.csuchico.edu (Robert Douglas Ferrell)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Summary: Beginner seeks recommendations for sailplane/radio
Date: 5 Oct 92 15:16:36 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

Greetings RC soaring enthusiasts,
        A while back I posted a request for suggestions for a good 2m
sailplane kit for a beginner and for a starting radio setup.  Following
is my original post and a summary of responses (including a couple of
paraphrased responses from my roommate and his friend who fly).  In case
anyone's interested I ended up buying an Airtronics Olympic 650 and a
JR MAX 6 FM radio.  I looked at the Airtronics Vanguard 6 channel and the
Futaba Conquest 6 channel, but the JR "just felt right" in my hands.  Thanks
to all who responded.  I'll keep you posted (and pestered with questions)
as the construction proceeds (I just bought all of this stuff yesterday).

May the wind rise to meet your wings,

Doug Ferrell
(rferrel@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu)

========================== My original post ============================

Hello, RCers-
        I'm a greenhorn who recently got hooked on RC soaring.  I've always
been intrigued by RC flying, but never had the time or money (or an
instructor) to get involved.  Well, now I have some of each.  My roommate
has been flying RC models for about 10 years, and has "lent" me a Goldberg
Electra as a trainer.  We have been out flying twice now and I'm itching to
start building my first kit (while I slowly wear out the Electra).  I have
landed successfully four times and crashed once (so I get my first repair
lesson this week).  The last time we went flying we took a highstart and an
RO-8 (by Dynaflight) along with the Electra.  It was a blast!  Lots of lift
and a light breeze.  Anyway, I really liked the RO-8, but Ray says I should
start off building something a little easier.  So here's where you come in:
recommend a good 2M glider kit for me to start building.
        I have model building experience ranging from polystyrene kits (a
long time ago) to balsa and cardboard (scratch built architectural models
for friends in school).  I've built model rockets, too.  Anyway, I'd like a
nice flying sailplane as a sort of second model.  After trying out the RO-8,
I'm a bit spoiled as it flies much better than the heavy Electra.  I'll
probably be highstarting and hand-launching whatever I end up with.
        I'm also looking at radios.  Right now, I don't think I'll really
want to slope soar much, or fly sailplanes which need a winch for launching.
I'd like to keep it simple--eventually maybe ailerons and/or flaps, but
nothing too big or too fancy.  I'm torn between keeping it cheap and getting
a 4 CH FM or going for it and getting a nice programmable set.  I've read
the FAQ, but I want some specific experiences (especially regarding the
radio).  Anyway, any info regarding RC soaring is appreciated.  If I get
worthwhile feedback, I'll try to summarize it...thanks again.

-Doug Ferrell
rferrel@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

================================ Responses =============================

From: "Shamim Zvonko Mohamed" <sham@cs.arizona.edu>

My pet trainer is the Drifter II. I have built two myself! Excellent wood, good
design, easy to build. And a good flier - I have won contests with mine. (Alas
they are both now ex-Drifters.)

>  I'm also looking at radios... I'm torn between keeping it cheap and getting
>a 4 CH FM or going for it and getting a nice programmable set.

This is the decision you have to make.  Since I don't know you, I would advise
you to get a cheap one in case you lose the bug. And for the first few years
you can't really use a plane that needs a computer radio anyway. But if you're
sure you're in R/C for good and have the money, why not? I really like the
Airtronics radios, both the Vision and the Infinity. I have played with the
Vision and it is a delight! The Infinity also looks good, and seems to have the
same feature, but I haven't seen one yet. And if you're going cheap, I'd
recommend the Airtronics VG4 series - FM, with dual-conversion receiver, for
around $130 I think.

(And I have no connection with Airtronics, I and the people I fly with it all
like their radios. And they made the Sagitta and Aquila too!)

-s
-- 
  Shamim Mohamed / {uunet,noao,cmcl2..}!arizona!shamim / shamim@cs.arizona.edu
  "Take this cross and garlic; here's a Mezuzah if he's Jewish; a page of the
    Koran if he's a Muslim; and if he's a Zen Buddhist, you're on your own."
 Member of the League for Programming Freedom - write to league@prep.ai.mit.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Greg Tarcza <gregt@col.hp.com>

     For a first kit sailplane, I strongly recommend the Spirit 2 meter
kit.  It is really straightforward to build, has excellent instructions,
good quality wood,  and performs very well.  It is stronger than most 
of the 2M kit planes, also (if you are still learning, you will appreciate
that).  If built according to the plans/book, it has absolutely no bad 
habits in the air.  I have been flying one for about a year and a half
and have really enjoyed it.
     Whatever you wind up getting, post a request to the net to ask for 
building tips for your particular kit.  I have a few tips for the Spirit,
too.

Greg

===============================================================================
Greg Tarcza      WA2OOD        Pikes Peak Soaring Society             /
Hewlett-Packard Company                                              /
P.O. Box 2197                                                       /-,  /-,
Colorado Springs, CO  80901                                        /  / /  /
719-590-2471                                                      /  / /--/
                                                                      /
gregt@col.hp.com                                                     /
===============================================================================
From: deck@inland.com

If you have some model building experience (balsa, etc) then I can
heartily recommend the 2 Meter Gnome sailplane.  It may not be the sleekest,
prettiest sailplane but it flies very very well and is strong. You will enjoy
flying this plane from a hi-start or, if available, it winches up very well.
If you want something a bit simpler to build but not quite as strong
or as good a performer - try the Wanderer.  It is slightly easier to build,
but not as strong - a good hi-start will bend the wings past the point of no
return.

Good luck and lots of lift,
Jim Deck
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bartlone@last.med.ge.com (Mike Bartolone 5-4266)

I hope my mailing you this isn't a problem..I have a hard time posting to 
the new groups.

I started soaring about three years ago. I had NO model building experience
at all, and no instructor of any kind. I did some reading (tons and tons!)
and found that one highly recommended kit was the Carl Goldberg Gentle
Lady. Its a poly-hedral floater type trainer. I started off with a Futaba
4 channel radio because I knew (from all the reading) that this would be
the minimum expansion that I'd want in the near future.
I built the GL over the course of about 6 weeks. I was out hand tossing it 
at a local park one sunday when some more experienced (based on equipment)
guys showed up. Well, not being a fool, I asked them to check it over for me
looking for things like the proper amount of wash-out, balance etc. Then
they helped me take my first real flight from a high start...that flight
lasted about 20 minutes and I landed it myself just as gently as you please.
The ship IS sturdy..I let my younger brother try it one day..and he managed 
to nose it it from about 30 feet...made a nice hole in the ground...the 
rubber-bands popped off, the wong did a little summer-sault on to the
ground...we put on some new rubber-bands and took it back up (after a
quick check out that everything was still tight and unbroken).
As to the radio..brand (IMHO) is un-important..all of the bigger names
have quality gear..I personally like the Futaba styling better..
Number of channels...well lets see..rudder..elevator..flaps/spoilers...
ailerons...thats minimum in my book...4 channels..6 channels without
and fancy computer stuff is just about max from my POV..as long as it
has a mixer so you can do full span camber changing and 'crow' config
(both ailerons up/flaps down)...ok, so some guys want servo releases
but I still can't think of a reason to need one of those computer
controlled jobs..FM and PCM are both available with 'failsafes' built in..
So..yeah, if you are going to have say 3, 4, or more models and yopu want
to save a few $$ on the radio..maybe long term a computer radio is the
way to go...for say 2 or 3 its just as cheap to get another 4 channel
FM..and then I have two radios..on two separate channels..with their
own batteries...Yea, I know, I can just buy extra batteries and frequency
modules...but they cost buck too...

Mike
PS: Remember..this is all just My Own Humble Opinion....and I'm NOT
so experienced that I've forgotten to listen...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: $stevee@sasb.byu.edu (Stephen Eldredge)


Doug-
I started my RCing much like you, except for the fact that I never 
did find an instructor.  My first successfull flights were on a House-of-
Balsa 2x2.  I don't think they even make this kit any-more.  Recently I have 
been helping several friends into the hobby by way of sailplanes.  There are 
several inexpensive kits that are great for first time flyers.  Goldbergs 
Gentle Lady $20-25 and Great Planes Spirit ~$30.  I would recomend the 
Gentle Lady because it is lighter and slower.  I have successfully flown 
several by high start, hand launch, and even light slope lift.  If you feel 
like you want something a little (not much) more agile, try the Spirit.  
Building is a little more advanced and it flies faster. Either would be a 
good choice.  There are others on the market, but my experience with these 
two in hands unfamiliar with r\c and building skills has been good.  Both 
kits have good instructions.
On the side of radios my favorite is the Futaba Conquest 4 
channel.  It has servo reversing and a trainer port which will make life 
much easier during training.  Well worth the extra $15-20.

Good Luck, Let us know how you do.

Steve Eldredge
$stevee@sasb.byu.edu 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: billh@bleep.com (Bill Hassell)

I have had good success with an Oly 650. It was a good kit, easy to build,
a good flyer and very forgiving of hard landings. Just my $.02.
Hope it helps.
Bill Hassell 
sco.com!bleep!billh
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bryan@isrc.sandia.gov (Jon R Bryan)

The "Gnome" from Midway Models is reported to be a good kit.  I believe
it includes material for spoilers.  Another one to consider would be the
"Chuperosa 2M" from Culpepper Models.  It's quite a bit more
sophisticated, having ailerons.  I recently completed the hand launch
Chup with ailerons.  I'm still a novice, and was worried that it would
be "twitchy," but I'm quite pleased with the way it handles.  I had no
trouble flying it in a 20mph breeze last weekend.  Drop the nose and it
goes.  The 2-meter version is essentially the same plane with tiplets
added to extend the wing.  The Chup has sheeted foam wings, and it's a
tough little plane.  Culpepper puts together an excellent kit.  Be
warned that it requires micro servos and a small (250mah) battery pack.
A Futaba full-size receiver will just _barely_ fit.
-- 
Jon R. Bryan (505) 844-2015 <=> bryan@isrc.sandia.gov
Sandia National Laboratories, Intelligent System Sensors and Controls
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ray Debs (roommate):

Recommended the Gentle Lady, but I decided I wanted something with a stronger
wing.  He also suggested the Olympic 650.  Ray's radio brand of choice is
Airtronics.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Regis (Ray's flying friend):

Also recommended the GL and Oly 650 (he's built an Oly II).  He prefers
Futaba and Airtronics radios.  Dave's the one who pointed out that having
dual rate switches helps when landing at slow speed.  This prompted me to
spend the extra $50 and get a 6 channel radio.

=============================== End of Responses =======================

Thanks again to everyone who responded...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc