HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: The Abuse of Classical Music
Date: 12 Oct 92 15:37:04 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <Bw0J37.794@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ash50842@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Dres) writes:
>fernande@cps.msu.edu (Jose Roberto Fernandez) writes:
>
>>In article <Oct12.024350.88033@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben) writes:
>>>I was wondering if anyone has yet compiled a short list of the most abused
>>>pieces of classical music, i.e. music used in stupid commercials, etc...
>>>




>



>
>Are you kidding?  That's not the worst, man.  That's bad, but it's not the 
>worst.  THe worst is....<drum roll, Paul>
>	Strauss's Blue Danube waltz with various sounds in place of those
>two notes.  You know what I'm talking about.
>
>-Dres
>(Apologies if this is not the Blue Danube Waltz I'm thinking about, my 
>memory of music is often faulty.)

Very good! Perhaps we could start a list of the "various sounds" that have been
used for these outrages...I can recall a commercial here in  the Denver area
for bottled water that used the blurping sound of bubbles rising in the water
as the two notes...

I still don't think that really compares to squirrels parachuting for breakfast
cereal to the strains of Wagner's Valkyrie music...



_______________________________________________________________________________
			     "The noble soul has reverence for itself."
 Michael Hurben                                                  -Nietzsche
 Dept. of Physics         "Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things."
 Colorado State University                                       -Quayle
 hurben@lamar.colostate.edu  "See how I love to clean filthy catboxes!"
								   -Hoek
________________________________________________________________________________
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star
Date: 17 Oct 92 03:29:36 GMT
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <Bw8qGE.L5r@fiu.edu> klimczak@serss0 (Peter Klimczak) writes:
>I would like to know the Sonata (or is it a Lullaby) number which is  
>commonly known as "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star."  I know the composer
>is Mozart.

Variations on "Ah, je vous dirai, Maman."  K. 265.

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Beatles and the canon
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 02:57:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.182055.7893@Princeton.EDU> roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:

[....]
   much like an original: consider the Bud Light commercial with a song called
   "Wild Thing."  Now, that's *not* the 60's song by Question Mark and the
   Mysterians; in fact, it's a recomposition that includes bits of that 

Nor the 60s song by The Troggs? :-)

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
From: mgresham@artsnet.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Glass meets Clive Barker
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:27:10 GMT
Organization: ARTSNET,  Atlanta (Norcross) Georgia

Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.) writes:

> Most of "Voyage:'s reviews are just terrible. Looks like a repeat of
> Anthony and Cleopatra

Does that mean that in 30 years people will re-examine the music
and say it wasn't so bad after all? :-)  (That is, if it IS a repeat
of what happened with Anthony and Cleopatra.)
;-)

--Mark Gresgham

dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu

=====
Boogie On Down With Barber!
From: Glenn_Woodsworth@mindlink.bc.ca (Glenn Woodsworth)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Tallis Scholars...
Date: 13 Oct 92 05:22:11 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

I had the pleasure of hearing the Tallis Scholars last year, and their
singing
was a revelation to me...every strand in the texture stood out.  Since then,
I've been a big fan of their music.

Alas, at $22 Cdn, I can't afford all the disks they put out.

Glenn Woodsworth

glenn_woodsworth@mindlink.bc.ca


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel)
Subject: Re: Rakozy March question
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 15:11:25 GMT

In article <3955@phred.UUCP>, jimn@phred.UUCP writes...

>Unless it's incidental or scene change music, what's going 
on during the Rakozy (sp?) march in Berlioz "Faust"? And 
for that matter, what --if anything-- does Rakozy mean?
> 

Berlioz was very fond of this Hungarian march, so much
so that he placed this scene in his Damnation of Faust
in Hungary just so he could use the music.  Since
this is not really an opera, there technically isn't
a need for a scene change, but Faust is observing some
military maneuvers and the soldiers march nearby to
the music.  I forget the origin of the name.

Ron
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Glass meets Clive Barker response
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 06:19:18 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.041405.29046@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.) writes:
>In article <1biiccINNcam@calvin.usc.edu>
>alves@calvin.usc.edu (William Alves) writes:

>> (resisting the urge to say something inflammatory about Verdi...:-)

>You better because Verdi would kick the pants of any of these
>"composers" talk about paying dues. 

Would Verdi even be a composer in today's musical world?  I'm
not convinced.

>Verdi wrote over twenty operas and

Thirty, I'd say.

>had a career spanning 60 years. He was rejected from the conservatory
>at 18 and had to be funded while he took on a private tutor. His wife
>and two children died when he was composing one of his operas but he
>still continued. 

Bet he never drove a cab to support himself the way Phil Glass used to.

>Each of his operas was better than the other and the
>slow steady progression led to works like Aida, Otello and Falstaff.

Right.  I wonder what opera Stiffelio was an improvement on... not to 
mention its reworking as Alzira...Verdi's early years were decidedly
up-and-down in quality as well.  In with Nabucco and MacBeth there
are some decidely lesser efforts.

The Met doesn't do them.

>Can you say that The Voyage is Glass' definitive opera to date? 

Does anyone care?  What kind of argument is that?  
"A composer's greatness is measured by the fact that his operas
are higher in quality each time."  Sorry, no.

>You may have an urge sir. But you have no basis.

How about his taste in music?  Or his reasons for listening
to music?  Are you going to dictate those?

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: The Abuse of Classical Music
From: brian@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Brian Boutel)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 00:03:25 GMT
 <12OCT199212061044@rover.uchicago.edu> <1992Oct12.160341.1@venus.ycc.yale.edu>
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.



In article <12OCT199212061044@rover.uchicago.edu>, frank@rover.uchicago.edu (Frank - Hardware Hacker - Borger) writes:
 > 	Lately there was the add (that mercifully died an early death,) which
 > 	showed seats flying out of the plane with new (1mm) larger seats flying 
 > 	back in, all to that wonderful duet from Lakhme.

Ah, the British Airways song.

They had an ad with the same music showing hordes of people marching over strange
landscapes, with each group forming the shape of a facial feature, eventually
coming together to form a face. An ear is clearly seen in transit, but it never
arrives. Just like their baggage service?

--brian

-- 
Internet: brian@comp.vuw.ac.nz
Postal: Brian Boutel, Computer Science Dept, Victoria University of Wellington,
        PO Box 600, Wellington, New Zealand
Phone: +64 4 471-5328   Fax: +64 4 495-5232
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Alkan trivia
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 22:36:32 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.014446.9566@timessqr.gc.cuny.edu> kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu writes:
>In article <music.717477274@batman>, music@moravian.edu (Steve Heller) writes:
>>In <92269.123957RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET> RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET (Robert Haskins) writes:
>>>What is a bookcase falling on you?
>>Instructions: stand in front of a non-bolted (or otherwise secured)
>
>For those who may find this enigmatic, the story of Alkan's death is that
>he was supposedly crushed by a falling bookself or bookcase while reaching
>for a volume of the Talmud.
>
>A recent article (maybe 2 years ago or so) from the Musical Times revealed
>this story to be totally apocryphal, that contemporary newspapers correctly

Biblical, in any event.

>reported that he died mysteriously (apparently a heart attack or something
>similar) while walking to or from the kitchen).

Just your ordinary acausal bidirectional culinambulatory death.

>If you're all dying to know, I suppose I could spend the time and find the
>exact citation.  It was seemingly a very well-researched article.

Forteans, take note!

>
>Bob Kosovsky
>Graduate Center -- Ph.D. Program in Music(student)/ City University of New York
>New York Public Library -- Music Division
>bitnet:   kos@cunyvms1.bitnet        internet: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
>Disclaimer:  My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my institutions.
From: aflorjan@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Alan S Florjancic)
Subject: Tallis Scholars...
Summary: New Music?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 01:02:25 GMT

Would anyone know if the Vocal Group, the Tallis Scholars has released any new
music within the past few months.  For those unfamiliar with group, they are an
extremely talented group of vocalists who specialize in Renaissance sacred
music.  I can honestly say that there are not too many other groups that I have
heard that can compare to their artistry...

Alan S. Florjancic
From: egras@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Beatles and the canon
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:53:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: ohstpy.14248.2add69c9


>Well, I know people who don't know Beethoven, either, believe it or not.
>                                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> I certainly *do* believe it (sad to say). As a personally-conducted, highly
> unscientific survey, I'd say only 10% of Americans would be successful in
> identifying the "famous bits" of LvB.


	My old college roommate once bet me that he could find someone on 
campus that had NEVER HEARD OF Mozart.  He did not mean that he could find
people unfamiliar with his music (this even I beleived he could do).  No, he
thought he could find someone who didn't know that a person named Mozart
ever composed music.  I was going to take him up on the bet, but I remembered
a particular instance in an art museum.  My (ex)girlfriend and I were visisting
an art museum and checking out the Impressionist masterpieces when my
girlfriend remarked' "I like this Vincent Van Gosh (sp?) guy".  I replied,
"It's Van Go (sp?).  Haven't you ever heard of him?"  She said she hadn't.
At least she has good taste :)

BrianE
From: Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Glass meets Clive Barker response
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:22:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: dartvax.1992Oct14.212206.7763
 <1992Oct14.013706.22631@Princeton.EDU> 
 <1992Oct14.033525.14825@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>  
 <1992Oct14.145821.9242@Princeton.EDU>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1992Oct14.145821.9242@Princeton.EDU>
roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:

> Oh, and as far as fairness goes, note that when Verdi was alive, 
> he had hadly any "classical" repertoire of operas to compete with.
> Occasionally a place would dust offf Figaro or Don G, or a Rossini
> or an early Donnizetti; but he didn't have to compete with his own
> fifteen-or-so great hits, not to mention Puccini, etc.
 
Physician heal thyself. Verdi's competitors were not only Rossini,
Donzetti, Mozart and Bellini (forgot him?) but Paisiello, Mercadante,
Meyerbeer and a whole host of others who were considered equally
popular and performed often in that age. Also his main "rival" for
attention Wagner was a far more formidible foe than any one Glass has
now. 
Xref: sparky rec.music.classical:14322 rec.music.makers:10219
From: dtt@mitisft.Convergent.COM (Duc Tran)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.makers
Subject: Schimmel piano
Date: 14 Oct 92 23:12:23 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Organization: Unisys Unix Systems Group, San Jose, CA



Hi:

I am thinking about a Shimmel 6'10 piano in a standard black finish. They
ask me for 19K for this particular piano. 

This is a nice piano for the sound and for the look, I think. 

Can anyone tell me whether this piano is a good one? And the price is 
a good price for this particular piano?

How does this one compare to some other brands which cost around the same?

Thanks in advance.
From: mgresham@artsnet.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Beatles and the canon
Date: 16 Oct 92 03:17:15 GMT
Organization: ARTSNET,  Atlanta (Norcross) Georgia

alves@calvin.usc.edu (William Alves) writes:

> In article <CB.92Oct14135817@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris B
> 
> >Roger, you've previously said that the Beatles consitute something like
> >a modern canon, and I've been wondering about this topic in general.  My
> >daughter and her friend seem to know the Beatles as well as we oldsters
> >do, but I know people in their 20s and 30s who don't know their songs at
> >all.
> 
> I have one funny/sad anecdote along these lines - I'm sure others have
> many similar ones. A friend of mine was working in a record store in the
> early 80's when a couple of teeny-boppers came up to him looking for
> Sgt. Pepper.
> 
> "The Beatles or the Bee-Gees?" my friend asked.
> 
> "The Beatles did a Sgt. Pepper too?!" they replied, astonished.

I must add another funny/sad anecdote that I've told before:

When the name Paul McCartney came up in a conversation,
one of the teenagers at my church piped up:
"Wasn't he in Wings?  Gee, that's an OLD band!" :-)

(speaking of "old"... :-( )

--Mark Gresham

dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu

=====
From: demian@ocf.berkeley.edu (Demian)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: The Voyage
Date: 13 Oct 1992 17:00:55 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: monsoon.berkeley.edu


Did anyone happen to catch Philip Glass's The Voyage on the Met broadcast, or
saw the opera yesterday on Columbus Day?  What overall impression did you get 
from this work?  
It's the most contemporary opera I've heard, and I was really impressed by it.
I was wondering if Glass's other operas are similar to this one?  I heard it
over the radio so I couldn't see the set design.  Was it broadcasted on PBS in
New York,  and if not, will it be on the tele in the future?   

Thanks.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Glass meets Clive Barker response
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 01:31:49 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.212828.24507@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Joseph.J.Marcheso.Jr.@dartmouth.edu (Joseph J. Marcheso Jr.) writes:
>On the issue of Glass it always wonderful to see people embrace
>modernity for modernity's sake. 

Who's doing that?  Has anyone here done that?  

>However I like WIlliams, Morricone but
>Glass is just an also-ran in the twentieth century. 

What's that in English?

Oh, and if he's such an also-ran, howcome he sells all those 
records, and outsells a lot of rock stars? 

>For those who
>prefer to listen to boring music on occasion then you've found a
>perfect man in Glass. 

I see.  So the thousands who buy tickets to hear him go to be 
bored.  Have you had your brain oiled recently?  

Perhaps some people *aren't* bored by him.  Had you considred that?

>Good music still has a duty to the common people.

Spoken like a true commissar.  Must I call you tovarich, or
will a simple "mein Fuehrer" do?  

What is this crap, anyway?  Most "common people" don't like *any*
"classical" music, not Schoenberg, not Beethoven, not Verdi.

>Its not the people that are turning away from classical music its the
>fact that Glass et al. are FORCING them away in droves with this
>derivative noise. 

Ah, I see.  Explains the sellout crowds everywhere.  

(Of course, I hadn't heard much lately about people turning away
from classical music in the first place.  Could you let us in on
what you're talking about?)

>Great operas meet both the emotional and
>entertainment aspects in people Glass does neither. 

Right.  So how come the opera needs subsidies?  Seems to me that 
Broadway theatre and movies do a lot better in meeting those "emotional
and entertainment aspects."  Especially among the large majority
of the population who don't speak Italian.

Roger
From: jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM (James Langdell)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Language invented for music
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:52:45 GMT
Reply-To: jamesc@bassclar.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: bassclar

Berlioz invented words sung by a chorus of Demons in "The Damnation
of Faust." Here's a transcription of their lines:

Ha!  Irimirukarabrao!  Has!  Has!

Tradi oun marexil fir trudin,
xe furru dixe'.
Fory my dinkorlitz.
O me'rikariu!  O me'vixe'!  Me'rikariba!
O me'rikariu!  O midara carai bo lakinda,
merondor dinkorlitz,

Merondor dinkorlitz merondor.
Tradioun marexil,
Tradioun burrudixe,
Trudinxecara ibo.

Fir ome vixe merondor.
Mit aysko merondor mit ayxko, Oh!

Diff, diff, merondor, 
merondor aysko!
Has! has! Satan!
Has! has! Belphe'gor!
Has! has! Me'phisto!
Has! has! Kroix!
Diff, diff! Astaroth!
Diff, diff, Delze'buth!
Belphe'gor!
Astaroth!
Me'phisto!

Sat satraky irkimour.

Has has Me'phisto Has!
Has! Me'phisto Has has has has has!
Irimiru karabrao!


I have no idea what this means, but as I typed this my office took on
a deep purple glow and a slight smell of sulphur.  Gotta run!

--James Langdell     jamesc@eng.sun.com
  Sun Microsystems   Mountain View, Calif.
From: maverick@fir.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Need info on Kraanerg by Xenakis
Date: 8 Oct 1992 19:24:36 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: fir.cs.berkeley.edu
Keywords: Kraanerg, Xenakis

In article <music.718568349@batman>, music@moravian.edu (Steve Heller) writes:
|> There is an Etcetera CD listed that shows just one work on it,
|> Kraanerg, featuring Roger Woodward and the Alpha Centuri Ensemble. Is
|> anyone familiar with this work or CD? Is it a very long work or a very
|> short CD or what?

Long work.  I remember being intimidated by the readout on the
CD player when I first plugged it in: one track, 72 minutes.

|> What sort of instrumentation is involved?

(Analog) tape and 22 instruments -- largely extreme winds, if I remember
right, the clarinet family represented (for hypothetical example) by
Eb and bass.  Vance Bob says check it out.

	Vance
From: marca@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Marc Andreessen)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Alternate Classical-Music FAQ Memo
Date: 15 Oct 92 01:02:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: wintermu.MARCA.92Oct14200258
Organization: Nat'l Center for Supercomputing Applications

In article <1992Oct13.164910.18433@newstand.syr.edu>
jmwobus@mailbox.syr.EDU (John M. Wobus) writes:

    Actually, believe it or not, within these constraints, today's
    composers put a lot of attention into making the music listenable
    and to writing something which will get played.  The idea that the
    average composer of contemporary music completely ignores his
    audience is simply not true.

Not to sound like an uneducated boor (which, naturally, I am), can you
name some of these composers?  I.e., those who write compositions that
won't make me leap at my CD player, smash my fist down on the ``STOP
DAMMIT STOP'' button, and hurl the disc into a blast furnace.

Marc

--
Marc Andreessen
Software Development Group
National Center for Supercomputing Applications
marca@ncsa.uiuc.edu
From: eijkhout@cupid.cs.utk.edu (Victor Eijkhout)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: pierrot lunaire
Date: 13 Oct 92 02:18:16 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee, Knoxville - Department of Computer Science
Distribution: world
Reply-To: eijkhout@cupid.cs.utk.edu (Victor Eijkhout)
NNTP-Posting-Host: cupid.cs.utk.edu

In article <1992Oct12.205919.24270@Princeton.EDU>, roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct12.184741.11373@netcom.com> rchrd@netcom.com (Richard Friedman) writes:
|> >ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer) writes:
|> 
|> >>I am looking for a version of Pierrot lunare, op 21, by Schoenberg.  I
|> >>already have the version by the Budapest Chamber Orchestra/ Erika
|> >>Sziklay, soprano.  There is much I like about this version, but think
|> >>the vocal solo could be more convincing.
|> 
|> >>Any suggestions?
|> 
|> >The best recording so far is on Koch/Shwann with the Schoenberg
|> >Ensemble from Amsterdam conducted by Reinbert de Leeuw (sorry if i
|> >spelled it wrong).  The voice is an actress who can sing.  She is
|> 
|> Well, then, why don't she?  8-)

Maybe because it's not a sung part?

|> >This is by far the very best recording! The voice is perfect.  The
|> >recording and the performance is staggering.  I have checking itwith
|> >the score, and I am amazed at how accurate the vocal line is.
|> 
|> Um, perhaps she's made two recordings of it, then, because I sure
|> don't recognize long chunks of the vocal line as she speaks/shouts
|> it on the disc.

The way I remember the story (from a tv documentary and subsequent
performance on Dutch tv) the Schoenberg ensemble was playing in Berlin
and De Leeuw and some other member went to the theatre on a night off,
saw this actress, and for some reason were convinced that she'd be
perfect for Pierrot Lunaire. Mind you, at that time she 
was to all practical purposes musically uneducated.

I really liked the performance I saw on tv. Very refreshing the
way she performed (for lack of a better word, because it's certainly
not singing) the part. Of course, I didn't have a score in my lap.

(But my best memories of a PL performance were of theatre group
from somewhere in the Balkan. The musicians and the singer walked / 
danced all over stage, playing most from memory.)

  Her speaking style is indeed theatrical, but of an 
|> entirely different tradition than the one Schoenberg's original
|> actress-singer came out of, and quite unrelated to the kinds of
|> inflections Schoenberg could possibly have in mind.  

Unrelated that what Schoenberg could possibly have in mind.
Hm. Rather hard to dispute that statement.

|> Roger

Victor.