Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 09:17:01 CST
From:         Michael Million <MM24681@UAFSYSB.BITNET>
Subject:      Replies to Dan, Zane and Brad

 From:  "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
 >WE ARE BORN INTO SIN, GUILTY OF SIN, READY AND WILLING TO COMMIT SIN.
 >WE ARE INCAPABLE OF CHOOSING GOD, HE MUST CHOOSE US.  WE HAVE NOTHING
 >TO OFFER HIM UNTIL HE DOES A MIRACLE WITHIN US, THEN WE CAN ONLY OFFER
 >THAT WHICH HE HAS PLANTED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

 Yes, Dan, thanks; that answers my question; sorry to hear you feel that
 way but I certainly respect your personal opinion as you have expressed
 it here.
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 From:         zane of dhahran <FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET>
 >Maybe we need to stop arguing and just start loving each other (hey,
 >we're even supposed to love our enemies right?  Not necessarily agree
 >with them) in thought (get into sync with our Mental Monitor Helper?)
 >and in deed (our free will outworking of the Sustainer Life Spirit, the
 >Righteous Be-er Do-er who lives in our spirit, the internal heavenly
 >place).

 Hello Zane.  I am not arguing if you mean with inflammed emotions, I'm
 conversing with my brothers.  If anyone thinks I feel I have enemies
 here, then I am truly sorry to have given you that impression.  I
 enjoyed the rest of your post and agree that a life of 'living faith'
 is what Jesus expects of us.
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 From:         "(Brad Kaiser)" <bradk%isdgsm@RTSG.MOT.COM>
 >If God created you, and your will, and He is both a loving Father and
 >the Lord of the Universe, then is it not more humble for you to know,
 >from the very depth of your soul, that you cannot even return to Him
 >what He gave you without His help?

 What have I said that makes you think I do not need God's 'help?'  I do
 make a distinction between God granting me the *capacity* for free will
 as opposed to the *voluntary subordination* - or excercise - of that
 same will.  Why would God grant us the capacity for creature free will
 if he did not expect us to use it to find Him?

 >But there is a greater sacrifice: it is to make the complete
 >submission that acknowledges that we are useless servants, that we
 >cannot, *of ourselves*, even make the sacrifice of our wills to God.

 I cannot state that I am a useless servant to God when He has chosen
 to indwell my mind with a fragment of His Infinity thus providing me
 with a pilot to find Him and a means of discerning how to live a life
 of service and brotherhood to those I meet in this life.  What do you
 mean when you say *of ourselves*?

 Sorry to have seemed 'equivocal' about Jesus, the Creator Son being the
 same as God.  I agree with you, he is True God from True God.

 >Please give me convincing proof that the Urantia Book is divinely
 >composed.

 Proof, like religion and reality, is a personal matter.  Until you hold
 the book in your hands for yourself, the chances are small that you
 will recognize it for what it is.

 >When was this book written?
 MM: composed/compiled AD 1934 by celestial authors.

 >Christ walked the earth 2000 years ago.  Do you expect me to believe
 >that His true teaching was somehow forgotten until very recently?

 No, not at all.  In fact, there are living celestial recorders that
 maintain records of each and every valid moral decision we each make.
 Maintaining records of the thoughts and words of Jesus had the
 highest priority, I feel certain.  And thus is clear another reason we
 have been offered _The Urantia Book_ -- for other interpretations of
 Jesus' Gospel have strayed too far from his original statements.

 >Michael, I have a question for you.  When you need work done on your
 >house, do you expend some effort to search out a reputable carpenter
 >to do the work?  [etc.  ...text deleted]

 My point exactly.  You should read the most accurate restatement of
 Jesus' teachings; it is found in _The Urantia Book_.  Have you seen
 the book yet or are you being judgmental without even looking at it?

 >I believe you owe it to yourself to search for the reputable source
 >of the truth of Christ.  If Christ is truly God-made-man, who truly
 >died for the salvation of all mankind, then He has preserved His
 >teachings -- all of them -- completely free of any error.  Your task
 >is to find where on this earth those teachings are preserved.

 I say I have found it and therefore fold this challenge right back to
 you.  I have studied your source... have you even looked at the source
 I recommend for the above reasons?

 >You should look for a visible, unified organization, because only a
 >unified organization can fight error effectively.

 My source says that organizations tend to stifle and rigidify truth.
 If your organization is so accurate, then why is there so much
 confusion still after its 'long' history?

 ...and lastly, Brad writes:
 >You should look for an organization which can produce some scientifi-
 >cally verifiable but objectively miraculous evidence for its claims,
 >since it makes sense that a truly supernatural organization would show
 >forth real supernatural manifestations of the power of God.
                [... and continues]
 >There is one and only one organization which meets all of these
 >criteria: the Holy Catholic Church, founded by Jesus Christ upon the
 >Rock of Blessed Peter.

 Why do we need an organization to find God when God has endowed us with
 a faultless and divine fragment of His infinity which guides our
 personal lives?
 An organization for the purposes of spreading the true Gospel of Jesus
 would be a great organization, but these truths seem to be unrecognized
 by so many today.  An organization is not needed to find God.  Insti-
 tutions tend to stagnate a living faith and fossilize truths.

 Is this church you mention the same Catholic Church headed by Pope John
 Paul II who so recently formally proclaimed that the RCC was wrong in
 condemning Galileo, 359 years ago, for teaching that the earth was not
 the center of the universe?.... is this the church you hold so high?

                                   in brotherhood,   Michael Million
 PS: Eric Ewanco, I will reply to your comments soon, thanks.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia