From: moskowit@panix.com (Len Moskowitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Torah In A Torah Context (was Re: more of ...can of worms....)
Date: 28 Aug 92 13:51:34 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

Herman Rubin writes:

>You are making the assumption that, at the time of Moses, a Sefer Torah,
>as a complete manuscript, was written down, either by God Himself, or by
>Moses, or by a team of scribes under the explicit direction of Moses.
>
>Also, if it were written by, or under the direction of, Moses, that he
>got everything right.  

Yes.  For a more complete treatment of Torah and its authorship, see
Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan's "Handbook of Jewish Thought."  For English
speaking Jews the handbook is an almost indispensable reference text.
It has nicely done footnoting to help those who care enough to consult
the primary sources.

>In either of these cases, everything in the Torah must be exactly so,
>except possibly the pre-Adam part, where the timing may be off.  That
>means that, for example, Eden was located where Genesis says it is, 
>and the rivers coming out of Eden were as described, or at least that
>was the situation a few thousand years ago. ...

Indeed.  The rivers are still there today, exactly as described.  But
in which of the many physical and spiritual worlds?

Herman, shall we take another turn around the dance floor?  Polka or
Waltz?

I'm reminded of a mythical discussion that took place back in the
late 1400's:

	Professor: Don't tell me the Earth is round.  I *know* it
	isn't.  After all, it certainly looks flat from here.  You
	can't deny that!

	Ship Captain: But it's true.  I can show you the maps!

	Professor: Hah, what do map makers know?  I don't trust them
	worth a whit.  In any case I can't read maps nor do I need to;
	I know all about them because I've read accounts of maps in my
	books.  One of them is even written by a mapmaker!

	Ship Captain: Look, here's a map.  Look!

	Professor: (Covering his eyes) No!  I won't look at that
	nonsense and poppycock.

	Ship Captain: But I've been around the world myself and the
	world really is round.  I can vouch for it myself.  And if you
	like I'll take you with me on my next trip and you can see for
	yourself too.

	Professor: Nonsense! Everyone knows the world is flat.
	You're an unreliable witness so I don't trust you.  And no, I
	won't go with you because I already know what the outcome will
	be.

This is why I bemoan the Reform and Conservative's loss of Judaism's
so-called "mystical" foundations.  Without evidence other than the
assertion of modern modes of so-called "rationality" they doubt and
even deny the possibility that revelation, prophecy, miracles, angels,
and the existence of spiritual worlds might have truly occurred and
may yet exist even today.  In the process they necessarily become
Kofray B'Ikkar (those who deny the very foundations of Judaism) and
grow further and further from G-d, often without an awareness of the
process.

Torah asserts that there is more to the world than what meets the eye.
There are worlds other than this one physical world.  This fits into
Judaism's world view, a view that is not wholly compatible with the
secular Western world's world view.  

For those of us who have been brought up in the secular world, it's
extremely difficult to accept the possibility that G-d actually
revealed the Torah to Moses and Israel, or that angels came to
Abraham, that prophets perceived G-d and expressed G-d's will, or that
there was a flood that Noah survived in an ark, or that there is a
"place" called Eden, or mon (manna) that fell from the heavens, or any
other of the unusual tales recounted in the Torah.

That being so, it's not surprising that many of us have problems with
the observance of the Torah's mitzvot -- why should we "do" when we
have doubts that the Torah is true?

I suggest an exercise: humor yourself.  Suspend your disbelief.  Try
for some period to learn Torah from within its own context.  During
that period act as if everything the Torah says is true, even though
you doubt it (or even are certain to the contrary).  When you come to
something you don't understand, instead of dismissing it, give it the
benefit of the doubt and say that perhaps you just don't yet
understand it.  Write it down so that you can come back to it at some
other time, and then leave that subject and go on.  Perhaps at some
later time understanding will come.  Perhaps not.  In any case, give
it a chance.

After some time has passed you may find that Torah is an internally
self-consistent system of thought of incredible depth and breadth.
Within it, the Torah (and many other things including Western modes of
"rationalism") and its contents makes sense.  It's truth may become
self evident.  Or maybe it won't.  But perhaps it's worth the effort
to discover for yourself.

>...  That means that the order
>of evolution of living things is reasonably accurate.  That means that
>God must have really done a major job of moving animals around after
>the flood, in a manner unknown to Noah and his descendents.  That means
>that, somehow or other, there were very large groups of humans which do
>not seem to correspond to any of the descendents of Noah listed.

I've challenged you time and time again to consult with an expert in
the field, a Professor of Biology who also happens to be one of the
more impressive halakhic scholars of our day: Rabbi/Professor Moses
Tendler at Yeshiva University in New York.  If you were truly
interested in an answer you would have contacted him.  That you
haven't convinces me that you are content to defend your complacency.

-- 
Len Moskowitz
moskowit@panix.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish