HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: riggs@descartes.tec.army.mil (Bill Riggs)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: CFD: New newsgroup sci.siano.vs.schaeffer.battle.to.the.death
Date: 19 Aug 92 23:18:36 GMT
Followup-To: sci.skeptic
Organization: LNK Corporation, Riverdale, MD

In article <KENTD.92Aug17152727@zappa.FtCollins.NCR.com> kentd@FtCollins.NCR.com (Kent Dalton) writes:
>
>This newsgroup would be a moderated newsgroup where only revpk and
>Robert Schaeffer (sic) could post. The purpose of the group would be to
>provide a vehicle for long pseudo-intellectual diatribes directed at the
>intellectual humiliation of the opponent. New posts must contain a
>minimum of 1000 new words and 3Mb of quoted text. Any opponent who lets
>a thread die in less than a 3 month period shall be forced to sit naked
>in a hot tub with Don_-_Showen and have his DNA regenerated.
>
>The entire net could then thrill to the daring feats of
>patriarchy/feminism perpetrated by these two massive egos in their own
>forum. Or maybe they could just go back to reading sci.skeptic with an
>improved signal to noise ratio. Either way its a big win.
>
>Any comments?

	Alas, when you're right, YOU'RE RIGHT.

	Maybe we should also force Loren into the group. 

	Heck, maybe I should get banished to the group for awhile, the only
problem being that I could not possibly keep up with the bandwidth
requirements. (That is, except for that whopper I posted out last week -
MASSIVE APOLOGIES TO THE NET.)

	As you say, either way, it is a Big Win.

	

	Bill R.

	"My opinions do not represent those of my employer or any government
agency."
-- 
Bill R.
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill)
Subject: Please Explain This "Dream"?
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 14:06:22 GMT


   Today at roughly 6AM I had a crystal clear dream that seems to have had
a message. In this dream, snow started to fall in the middle of summer as I
was outside. I felt that this was probably the end of the world and I walked
into a church, following several other people who had the same idea. There
was about ten of us waiting to be baptized, and the preacher decided that they
had better do that at the start of worship. There was a large window out which
I could see the snow falling. The people, myself included, looked very nervous.
I was first to be saved and then I *thought* I woke up from this dream. I was
in bed thinking "Is this some type of sign, father?" when the most real part
of this whole thing took place. [Remember that I now thought I was totally
awake.] I felt a surge of electricity, as if somebody was shocking me, that
started at my head and slowly moved down to and past my feet. This scared the
heck out of me because I *think* I was awake and this shock felt so real. I
tried to move as it was happening but could not. As soon as it past my feet
I jumped up and ran into another room. The dream I could have wrote off, but
this shock feeling really had me scared. It was as if I was being scanned or
something. Just very strange. I have never had this type of dream or shock
feeling before. I also have been going through a lot of guilt over the past
year for a few things I did when I was a teenager. I'm 24 now. I'd like to know
if anybody has ever had a similar experience and if you think this is some type
 
of sign or simply stress. All I can say is that I didn't need this to further
play on my nerves.
 
   Tom
 
-- 
"A large creature about 7 1/2 to 8 foot tall. It was greyish black in color,
and as it went away from me I seen the backside of it walking as a man would
walk on it's hind legs."- Former Sheriff Oliver Potter, Vancouver, Washington
The Cryptozoology Information Network. Want on our Email mailing list? Amiga!
Xref: sparky sci.skeptic:14408 alt.magick:3836 alt.pagan:7882
From: mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.magick,alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Book Review 'Persuasions of the Witch's Craft' (longish)
Date: 16 Aug 92 03:37:56 GMT
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society

In article <1992Aug15.162849.295@u.washington.edu> mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner) writes:
>I looked at this book in the bookstore, but had some qualms about the
>ethics of pretending to be interested in a coven or circle for its own
>sake, while really meaning to use it as material for a scientific study.
>If I'd been one of her covenmates, I wonder how I would have taken this.

 That's not what she did though. As far as I can tell (and I've read the
book), she never hid why she was there and was up front about it. She
caught some flak for it too but most people didn't seem to have a problem
with it when she was there. She was an open minded part of the group and,
from the work and exercises she relates, actually did more of the work
than many magicians and pagans that I know. She didn't lie to them and
pretend to be what she was not.

Wassail,
Al Billings aka Grendel

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Al Billings - Anthropology Undergrad - Admin for the Troth-l Mailing List | 
| SysOp of The Sacred Grove BBS (206)634-1980 -=- mimir@u.washington.edu    |
------------------------------ Cut Here -------------------------------------
begin 644 GRENDEL.PUB
MF58``1%^*@Q":6QL:6YG<RP@06S^`2N`$7JAHA^YG*D:W0:>,_,\N<XL-]7BN
LV+1/'DT4SH3V2$'*(9NAE_,+VB9R.4=@$9R.J1?CL3H!9@HR8+7DD3@%`!$%E
``
end
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Mensa (was Re: Kinesiology - how I heard about it)
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:13:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: onion.GERRY.92Aug19091341
Reply-To: gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston)
Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU

In article <19920818143222SKH4161@MVS.draper.com> SKH4161@MVS.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum) writes:

   >>>The elitism of Mensa is a big farce, anyway. They don't have the intelligence
   >>>to work out that the concept of IQ is completely flawed and meaningless.

   Since Mensa also accepts SAT, ACT, GMAT, MAT and GRE scores for
   admission, do you mean to say the concept of these scholastic aptitude
   tests is completely flawed and meaningless as well?   Many Mensa
   members, if not the majority, got in on one of these tests rather than
   an IQ test.

Actually, these tests DO NOT measure intelligence!  I had occasion to
speak with an educator who is quite knowledgable about these exams.  I
was telling him that I think they are a farce (due to my very high
score and my knowledge of my own abilities... i.e., the test make me
out to be god, and I am not).  Anyway, his response was that there is
a strong correlation between GRE score and success in graduate school.
And that is why its used.  It has nothing to do with intelligence.


--
Gerry Roston (gerry@cmu.edu)    | The fabric of the American empire ought to
Field Robotics Center,          | rest on the solid basis of THE CONSENT OF THE
Carnegie Mellon University      | PEOPLE.  The streams of national power ought
Pittsburgh, PA, 15213           | to flow immediately from that pure, original
(412) 268-3856                  | fountain of all legitimate authority.
                                | Alexander Hamilton
The opinions expressed are mine | 
and do not reflect the official | 
position of CMU, FRC, RedZone,  | 
or any other organization.      | 
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552)
Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?!
Organization: just me
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 17:12:20 GMT
Followup-To: sci.skeptic

In article <cass8806.166@elan.glassboro.edu> cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY) writes:
>In article <1992Aug10.142244.3832@cas.org> sdr57@cas.org () writes:
>
>>In article <1992Aug9.193609.14566@husc3.harvard.edu> rocher@husc8.harvard.edu (Jean-Marc Rocher) writes:
>>>
>>>You seem to overlook the fact that it's a lot harder to walk into
>>>a public place while trying to conceal a flaming bottle of gasoline
>>>inside your coat (although a car might just be possible...)
>>>
>>(BTW, there has been at least one aircraft hijack attempt
>>using a bottle containing a fluid identified by the hijacker
>>as gasoline)
>
>i for one am VERY glad that people go around shooting at one another rather 
>than flinging flaming bottles of gasoline. the possibilities for destruction 
>are practically limitless -- in a terrorist sense of the word -- of course 
>you're not going to blow up any banks with them, but i'd hate to see what 
>could happen if even one was flung into a crowd of people -- say times 
>square on new years eve....

This used to be fashionable in the 19th century, except the liquid of
choice was vitriol, or sulphuric acid (I believe).  Even gave us a nice
adjective for use in groups like this :-).

		David Pipes
robear@digex.com
From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Applied Kinesiology, or what? (Was: how I heard about it)
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:25:21 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Aug14.144459.18562@colorado.edu> gordon@tramp.Colorado.EDU (GORDON ALLEN R) writes:
>
>>I see. The whole business of "applied kinesiology" is SO complicated
>>that our tiny litle minds can't possibly comprehend it. 
>
>
>Not at all, that's not what I'm implying, or meant to.  The classes are 
>experiential, something thats somewhat lacking on the net.

So, Applied Kinesiology is something like the Apostolic Succession or
whatever? It can only be communicated by a sort of "laying on of hands"?

Doesn't it have any "findings" or "theories"? Haven't any scientific
papers been written about it? Is it falsifiable in any way (and if so,
how)?

If not, it isn't science.


-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.physics,alt.folklore.science
From: siegman@EE.Stanford.EDU (Anthony E. Siegman)
Subject: Re: The dangers in microwaved food...
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 01:29:31 GMT

As an aside to the several recent messages on the wavelengths of
microwaves and of various types of transitions in water molecules, it
should be realized that an applied signal does _not_ have to be in
resonance with, or anywhere near the resonance frequency or transition
frequency of an atom or molecule, to cause observable losses.

The small absorption losses or weak absorption coefficients in many
"transparent" materials at various frequencies in fact come from the
long-wavelength tails of very strong absorption lines at much, much
shorter wavelengths or much higher transition frequencies.

I don't actually know what causes the microwave-frequency absorption
of liquid water, however...
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Mensa (was Re: Kinesiology - how I heard about it)
Date: 17 Aug 92 12:35:25 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre
Originator: netnews@uts.mcc.ac.uk

In article <14AUG199221251122@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu> lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard) writes:

>In article <BszE8J.LM@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, mrjg8679@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael R James) writes...
>>lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard) writes:
>> 
>>>For those jilted by Mensa, there's always Densa.  (Anybody have the 
>>>address?)
>> 
>>Oh _please_ elaborate on this!

>It's an anti-IQ-elitist organization.  I think I read about it in _Omni_
>about 8-10 years ago, so I'm afraid I can't give you any other details.

>Jim Lippard              Lippard@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
>Dept. of Philosophy      Lippard@ARIZVMS.BITNET
>University of Arizona
>Tucson, AZ 85721

Not strictly: it seems to have started as a joke, only enough people wanted 
to be in on the laugh that the originator actually had to start it up for 
real.  But there's no meetings or anything, just membership card etc.
From the handout (flyer to you yanks):
"Densa people don't know what they're doing.  Wrong!  Densafolk know exactly 
what they're doing.  It's the other people who don't know what we're doing, 
so they think we're stupid, just because we refuse to believe everything
we're told by so-called 'experts' on TV, radio and in the newspapers.  How 
on earth do they 'know' better than the rest of us?  Who appoints them to 
tell the rest of us what to do? Densafolk have had enough of it and are now 
coming forward to be counted.  Someone has to make a stand against all this
'expertise' in politics, education, etc."

{{aside to Jim: ever met Rachel J Perkins of Tucson's astrophys dept?
  I wonder how much of her posts to alt.angst are true......   }}




+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|           It all depends on the size of your ham sandwich           |
|  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England   (44)061-275-6033  |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Xref: sparky sci.skeptic:14684 alt.conspiracy:10154 alt.activism:15120 talk.politics.guns:19645
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Killing bers with handguns  (Was:  Re:  A random thought)
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:03:48 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Twilight Zone

In article <1992Aug19.000806.5719@colorado.edu> bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles) writes:
>I must take umbrage at this talk of slaughtering my brothers and sisters!
>
>Besides, a bear who recently decided a camper would make a handy snack ...

	HA!  This reminds me of that Far Side (tm) where the two polar bears 
	are sitting around an igloo that has had its top broken into and the
	one bear says to the other "I love these things.  Crunchy on the
	outside and chewy on the inside."

	-Andy V.
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,talk.origins
From: SKH4161@MVS.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Subject: Re: Mensas farce?
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:33:00 GMT

>I easily meet their entrance requirements, but wouldn't be caught dead
>in that group of ego-stroking losers who populate Mensa...

Then you'll probably want to avoid the even higher IQ societies
like TNS, Prometheus, and Mega, which are, respectively, 20, 667,
and 20,000 times more exclusive than Mensa.  Until the recent
emergence of the High 5 Society, Mensa was the lowest-IQ active
high-IQ society - hardly something with which to stroke one's ego. :-)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)
Subject: Re: Mandelbrot Set shaped crop circle
Keywords: skeptic
Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 14:09:52 GMT

In article <Bt5FH9.FBB@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, tc37942@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tani  Chen) writes:
>The other day I saw a TV show on crop circles.  Unfortunately, I missed most of
>what was being said....One clip that I did see was a crop circle in the shape
>of the Mandelbrot Set.  What I want to know is, are there any good          
>explainations of this?  Are there Mandelbrot Set shaped UFOs circling Earth?
>Mandelbrot Set shaped landing pads?  shuttles?  And how aerodynamic is the
>Mandebrot Set, anyway, with all of the dendrites and antennas hanging off of it?
>Any ideas?

Simple.  The only intelligent creatures that know the Mandelbrot set are,
as far as we know, humans.  So it were probably humans.

-- 
--------------thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany---------------
Definition:  Idiot-proof  -  you are idiot-proof when you NEVER flame anybody.
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz)
Subject: Crop circles: natural or human-made?
Keywords: skeptic
Organization: Mount Holyoke College
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:36:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.140952.12377@rhrk.uni-kl.de> kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) writes:
>In article <Bt5FH9.FBB@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, tc37942@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tani  Chen) writes:
>>The other day I saw a TV show on crop circles.  Unfortunately, I missed most of
>>what was being said....One clip that I did see was a crop circle in the shape
>>of the Mandelbrot Set.  What I want to know is, are there any good
>>explainations of this?
>
>Simple.  The only intelligent creatures that know the Mandelbrot set are,
>as far as we know, humans.  So it were probably humans.

On the other hand, the Mandlebrot set is a "natural phenomenon", and
compared to the other more complex crop-circle shapes it seems to me
that the Mandelbrot shape is actually a more likely candidate for
natural occurrance.  At least it's symmetrical, and after all, since
the discovery of dynamical systems and chaos it has been found that
nature has a tendency to organize itself in fractal (or chaotic)
shapes.

Anyway, I saw the same TV show, and I have to admit that it did stir
my interest.  They made some pretty strong arguments that it was
rather unlikely that the crop-circles were made by humans... for one
they said that the recent frequency of appearance alone would make it
difficult unless there were "a whole army of crop-circle makers out
there" (loose quote).  Then there are the slight burns on the affected
plants which would point to a source of energy that would be difficult
to use in such a controlled fashion by human technology, and the
alleged discovery of genetic alterations in the wheat germs.

As this is my first post to this group, I'd like to add that I'm very
much a skeptic, _especially_ when it comes to UFO stories which I've
always dismissed, but I'm curious about this crop-circle phenomenon
now.  The TV show mentioned above was your standard sensationalist
TV-tabloid fare, but I'd be very interested in the opinions of some
hardened skeptics in this newsgroup...
--
Jurgen Botz                  |   Internet: JBotz@mtholyoke.edu
Academic Systems Consultant  |     Bitnet: JBotz@mhc.bitnet
Mount Holyoke College        |      Voice: (US) 413-538-2375 (daytime)
South Hadley, MA, USA        | Snail Mail: J. Botz, 01075-0629
Xref: sparky sci.skeptic:14657 talk.origins:9748
From: lawson@acuson.com (Drew Lawson)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,talk.origins
Subject: Re: Young earth creationist logic NOT!
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:00:14 GMT
Reply-To: lawson@aldia.UUCP (Drew Lawson)
Organization: ACUSON, Mountain View, CA

In article <903@tdat.teradata.COM> swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen) writes:
>
>Exactly.  Given the clear evidence for *irregular*, *unique*, *historical*
>events at ages far exceeding any Creationist's timetable, the God they
>worship *must* be considered a deciever.
>
>Luckily I don't worship him. I worship the God revealed by Jesus in the
>Gospels.  He is a much more reasonable, less deceptive God.


Funny.  That is the same New Testament which refer to Noah as a
historical person (see 1 Peter 3:20).  You can't have it both ways.

-- 
Drew Lawson                      If you're not part of the solution,
lawson@acuson.com                you're part of the precipitate
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Shroud exposed at early date (Tim O'Neill)
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:43:08 GMT
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA

In article <cass8806.221@elan.glassboro.edu> cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY) writes:
}In article <59620@mimsy.umd.edu> biow@cs.umd.edu (chris biow) writes:
}
}>I remember listening to a ... member of one of the investigatory 
}>commisions on the Shroud ... It was his opinion that the shroud had to 
}>have been made with an actual crucified body
}
}[stuff deleted from above]
}
}>If he and the dating are right, it was produced by one very 
}>scholarly, very sadistic person in the 14th century, and should be
}>an object of horror, not veneration.
}
}
}i recall hearing in my medieval history class that there was a middle ages 
}painter or sculptor, who recieved permission from the pope to crucify, or 
}have crucified, several prisioners so that he could observe how the body 
}changed during the various stages of death ... for the purpose of course of 
}being better able to paint jesus' own crucifixion....

And I recall somewhere and somewhen hearing about the Easter Bunny.  So?
From: lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Mensa (was Re: Kinesiology - how I heard about it)
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:53:00 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug13.161930.24758@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes...
>In article <zlsiida.80@fs1.mcc.ac.uk>, zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) writes
>in part:
>|> >  Tsk, tsk.  You mean mensa is not a reliable source of info?  You
>|> >surprise me greatly! :-)
>|> 
>|> If you were a member you wouldn't be surprised......or maybe you are and 
>|> that's why the smiley......you should see some of the stuff that goes on at 
>|> the UK AGM
> 
>The smiley was because I have heard many reliable reports of the goofiness
>of mensans.  Naturally, my bad attitude could have nothing at all to do
>with the fact the the local org. wouldn't even TALK to me, let alone
>invite me to join. That shows how smart they are, grumble, grumble,
>who do they think they are anyway, grumble, grumble, who wants to belong
>to their stupid club anyway, grumble, grumble. :-) :-)
> 
>(By coincidence, I was seduced by CSICOP a few months later--I guess 
>Kurtz et al. got me on the rebound.  And I didn't even have to pass 
>an IQ test!)

For those jilted by Mensa, there's always Densa.  (Anybody have the 
address?)

Jim Lippard              Lippard@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
Dept. of Philosophy      Lippard@ARIZVMS.BITNET
University of Arizona
Tucson, AZ 85721
Xref: sparky sci.skeptic:14158 alt.conspiracy:9925 alt.activism:14670 talk.politics.guns:19162
From: bd@fluent@dartmouth.EDU (Brice Dowaliby)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Killing bers with handguns  (Was:  Re:  A random thought)
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:50:25 GMT
	<55wmyyd.payner@netcom.com> <veal.184@utkux1.utk.edu>
	<ART.92Aug10152513@world.std.com> <BD.92Aug11090700@fluent.UUCP> <ART.92Aug11130024@world.std.com>
Reply-To: bd%fluent@dartmouth.EDU
Distribution: usa
Organization: Fluent Inc., Lebanon NH


in article <ART.92Aug11130024@world.std.com>art@world.std.com (Al Thompson) writes:

> In article <BD.92Aug11090700@fluent.UUCP> bd@fluent@dartmouth.EDU (Brice Dowaliby) writes:
>
>   article <ART.92Aug10152513@world.std.com> art@world.std.com (Al Thompson) says:
>
>   >He snuck up on a sleeping Kodiak
>   >bear (full grown Kodiak bears can run nine feet tall).  From a distance
>   >of about three feet he shot that bear right in the neck.
>
>   Shooting a sleeping bear at three feet.  What a sport!
>
>When you consider he did with a bow and arrow yes.  Don't forget,
>sleeping animals wake up very easily.  No, sneaking up on a full grown
>bear, of any kind, takes enormous courage or foolhardiness depending on
>your outlook (I personally think it foolhardy).

I didn't know that "sport" was defined as something that took "enormous 
courage or foolhardiness".

I'll grant that he had one of those, but shooting a sleeping bear at three 
feet is not what I consider a sport, any more than beating up drunks in 
alleys qualifies as a sport.

I'm not against hunting in general (although it is not something I partake 
in), but I just don't see anything sporting in shooting a sleeping animal 
at close range.  Sorry.
-- 
    Brice Dowaliby         |    They won't let me speak for them 
(bd%fluent@dartmouth.edu)  |    My life is an uptight bitch 
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,talk.origins