HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pwg25888@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Patrick W. Grady)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Match, Wheel, Flint Locks
Date: 15 Dec 92 03:42:15 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

whetten@enws286.EAS.ASU.EDU (Frank L. Whetten) writes:

#In article <1992Dec13.234101.25158@netcom.com> tssmith@netcom.com (Tim Smith) writes:
##In article <Bz6n7t.LJo@news.cso.uiuc.edu> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:
###Does anyone know what the difference between these
###types of actions?

#  [lots of info deleted] 

##A flintlock's lock has a small piece of flint, partially wrapped in
##leather and wedged into a hammer (or cock), and contained there with
##a clamp.  When the weapon is cocked, the cock is drawn back against a
##spring, and a steel striker is raised.  When the trigger is pulled,
##the cock falls, strikes the steel, and the resulting sparks fall into
##the pan, igniting the primer (you hope).
##--Tim (tssmith@netcom.com)

#It never occurred to me before, but did the shooter close his eyes
#when pulling the trigger on these types of weapons?  It would seem
#like the combination of steel hitting flint and sparks falling in a
#pan of gunpowder pretty close to your nose might be hazardous to your
#sight.  (You definitely want to wear your shooting glasses :-)

#Somehow the image of armies marching up to each other, and closing
#their eyes (and averting their faces) to shoot strikes my funnybone.

I have fired percussion cap muzzleloaders and own one myself.  In owning
this and using it, I have been to many rendezvous' and primitive re-
enactments where firing matches are taking place.  Many of the people
I know use glasses for safety, but there are others that do shoot without
protective eyeware.  They do hold their eyes open when they fire but
dont fire in many matches and keep their flints in good condition to
prevent chips from hitting them in the face.  Personally, all people
should shoot with protective eyeware, unfortunatly not all people do.

Patrick
---



-- 
Patrick Grady               |  I express my opinion,
                            |  I express your opinion
email: p-grady2@uiuc.edu    |  for large sums of money.
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Medved Carbines
Date: 20 Dec 92 15:33:44 GMT
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi

In article <9212191040.AA18100@zippy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
#Last night I was reading an article on a Russian hunt that some
#Americans went on in 1978.  The rifle supplied to them was a
#Medved carbine - an 18.5" barrelled semi-auto with a 3 round
#magazine (hinged at the front), and it fired a 9.3mm round.
#
#While not the most attractive gun in the world, it would make
#a nice addition to my collection.  Has anyone seen these things
#stateside, and if so, what kind of price can I expect?

No, I have not seen any. At SHOT SHOW there was a fellow from Texas  (I
think) hawking Tula shotguns from Russia. He mentioned importing other
sporting arms in the future. I  had a brochure but can't find it now.
Does anyone else remember this guy?
-- 

Donald R. Newcomb                * Life only admits two states: 
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu        * growing and dying. So what,
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet            * if I've put on a little weight?
From: scot@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Scot Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Remington 40-XB Questions
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:33:31 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site

Edward Godwin (edward@locutus.dell.com) wrote:
: 
: I have decided to purchase a Remington 40-XB.  I want it in a 30 cal chambering.

STUFF DELETED.

: Now, I realize how versatile .30-06 is.  Since .300 WinMag is the same bullet
: size, it should be almost as versatile (especially with duplex loads).  Plus
                                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                                          What is this?

-Scot
From: leem@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Lee Mellinger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Movies/media and guns vs. reality
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:21:50 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)

In article <1992Dec10.162345.26607@btree.uucp> btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale) writes:
:In article <lairdb.723856149@crash.cts.com> lairdb@crash.cts.com writes:
:#Well, this thread has been running for a while, and I had a thought:
:#What about an *organized* effort to educate these people about guns?
:
:One possible starting point would be director John Milius; he insists
:that his actors be familiar with firearms before shooting the scenes.
:If they aren't then he takes them to the range first.  Perhaps someone
:could approach John and tap him for advice.
:
:Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale

I can make another suggestion, Jim Zubiena, an actor with authentic
credentials, IPSC Southwest Pistol League Combat Master, runs his own
school and instructs for International Shoootist (Mickey Fowler and
Mike Dalton).  He has been the guy that Milius and the director (whose
name escapes me for the moment, senility I suppose) who did Miami
Vice, Manhunter, and currently The Last of the Mohicans, calls on the
instruct other actors at the range.

Lee

"Mit Pulver und Blei, die Gedanken sind frei."

|Lee F. Mellinger                 Caltech/Jet Propulsion Laboratory - NASA
|4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109 818/354-1163  FTS 792-1163     
|leem@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV
From: emory!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Denver Police shoot man
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:59:14 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <199212160530.AA13594@news.service.uci.edu> spickett@orion.oac.uci.edu (Steve Pickett) writes:
#
#There are stats for those who would look to point out the price many officers 
#pay on a personal level for staying in law enforcement. The one that sticks 
#most in my mind is the life expectancy of a police officer is something like 
#10 years less than most other professions after retirement. A result of a 
#high stress environment over a long period of time. 

As Super Chicken once said, "You knew the job was dangerous when you took
it, Fred." Sure police work is stressful, but it was a free choice by the
individual to put themselves in that situation. Police are sworn to serve
and protect, not intimidate and terrorize. They have no right to put an
ordinary citizen in a stressful situation in order to ease *their* stress
levels.

It should also be noted that police work is *not* one of the more dangerous
jobs in America. Firefighters, coal miners, and agricultural workers are
more likely to be injured or killed on the job than police. Farmers have
the highest injury and death rate on the job of any common occupation,
yet that's normally considered a low stress job. In police work, automobile
crashes claim more police officer's lives than all other causes combined.
Prohibiting high speed chases would do more to increase police, and public,
safety than any other action.

Gary
From: baechler@lia.di.epfl.ch (Emmanuel Baechler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Superiour revolvers (was: Re: Smith & Wesson Autos)
Date: 14 Dec 92 14:15:37 GMT


# A Manurhin MR73 immediately comes to mind... Or perhaps the newer
# model, which is also supposed to be cheaper. (I haven't seen it yet)

What a good idea. I have posted a review of the new ones a few weeks ago
(mine has the number 61), but I don't have it any more. I'll just look to
be sure of this. The MR-93 is definitely excellent and less than half the
price of the 73.

Emmanuel Baechler.                        | Tel.: ++41-21-693-2732
Laboratoire d'Intelligence Artificielle   | e-mail: baechler@lia.di.epfl.ch
Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne  |     or: baechler@liasun6.epfl.ch
MA-Ecublens                               | Standard Disclaimer
CH-1015 Lausanne	Switzerland

Ban the bomb. Save the world for conventional warfare.
From: ljb@parkcity.dr.att.com (BLO54620-BonhamLJ(DR2194)240)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Apologies for omissions in M16 Answers
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:35:23 GMT


My apologies to James P. Callison who pointed out an ommission I made in
my post about the M16 thread.  He is indeed right about the lineage of the
Browning/Colt M1911 as being an evolution of the M1904/5 Browning design
which debuted in .38 caliber.  The omission was intentional as I wished to
provide a brief overview of why the .45 auto was adopted to replace the
.38 revolver then in use.  The full saga of the .45 requires a book length
treatise and several have already been published.  As I said at the beginning
of that post, I intended to briefly address some inaccuracies that had developed
through the M16 thread.  Feel free to fill in some of the blanks I left.  I may
even send another post with more details if this becomes an agreeable line of
dicourse.

Thanks.
Larry

Bill Clinton is no Jack Kennedy, but if you hold the light just right he
does resemble Jimmy Carter.
From: surfin@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (William M Harris)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RWS Spring piston air rifle model 45
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:55:05 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University

I have an RWS model 45 air rifle.  Lately I noticed a large decrease in power.
I took the gun apart and found that the main spring was broken into six pieces!

Has anyone ever seen such behavior from a main spring?  What caused this
failure?


-- 
 SURFIN@KSUVM.BITNET     |  That which does not Kill us makes us stronger.
 surfin@ksuvm.ksu.edu    |                            -Friedrich Nietzsche
 wmh@phobos.cis.ksu.edu  | And on the eigth day,
 surfin@matt.ksu.ksu.edu ! GOD created NORTH Clamp-on booms.
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Seecamps
Date: 16 Dec 92 03:07:56 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <9212140631.AA04277@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com> davep@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com (David Post) writes:
#I saw a Seecamp in .32 ACP this weekend.
#Are these as good as they look?

Seecamp .32s have an excellent reputation as a deeply concealed weapon.
They're hard to find so if you're interested and can get a good deal on
it, snarf it up before somebody else does!
From: scylax!tiglath@uunet.UU.NET
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: dealing with a police officer
Date: 16 Dec 92 03:08:50 GMT
Organization: ScylaxCorp

What a variety of attitudes towards what to do when stopped by a police
officer.  Poor guys.  Between those with the hands behind the 
head, and the others striding towards the cruiser, and not forgetting 
those reciting "I'have a 9mm stainless steel double action semiautomatic 
firearm gun on the left flank of the ribcage,..."

I don't see why you can't just sit normally in you car a let him do his
job.  He will look wherever he needs to look.  If I was in his place I
would want a very passive driver, who would obey my commands with no fuss.

Why tell him about any gun.  If he feels or sees it, he will tell you 
what he wants you to do.  I think that taking initiatives is a bad idea.
Say what you want to him but the less you do the less he has to assess
you and you intentions.  I would beware of someone striving to look
harmless and overeager to cooperate.
From: tayloe@marble.rtsg.mot.com (Dan Tayloe)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: rec.guns
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:22:20 GMT

I am currently selling my Glock 22
in order to buy a pistol that would be capable of sub 1" groups at
25 yards, preferably in 45 ACP, and can still be used for home defense.
The problem is that I don't know what it will take to do this ($$$).

I have read that the 1911 is a favorite to modify to such performance
levels and am trying to find out the cheapest way to do that.  Can
a National Gold Cup model do this out of the box (Mark IV model 80)?  
If not, how much can I reasonablely expect to spend to get to this point 
and which model is the best platform to start with?  Does anyone have 
any experiences in this?

Since this involves Christmas  :), I think you can appreciate my timely
concern.

Thanks!

Dan
From: media!jim@uunet.UU.NET (Jim Gittelson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Recommend a Brass Catcher?
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:21:43 GMT
Organization: Media Cybernetics, Inc.

Could some one recommend a brass catcher that I can use at my indoor
range?  Maybe something that attatches to the gun, a Glock 17 in this case.

I seem to only pick up about 50% of what I shoot.

My news feed sight is somewhat erratics, so I would prefer direct emails
and will post results.

Thanx

	jim%media@uunet.uu.net
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: recs. requested small 380s
Date: 13 Dec 92 15:46:27 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <1992Dec4.032148.16255@henson.cc.wwu.edu>, n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
# I also would prefer the FS .40 to the .45 version.  Unless you are a
# lefty, there is no reason to get the FS .45 rather than the Colt Officer's
# model.   The Colt looks much nicer.   The FS is bigger and heavier and
# clunkier and the workmanship looks quite a bit cruder.

The Colt LOOKS nicer, but I have heard all sorts of problem reports
about the Colt Oficer's Model.  None for the Firestar from any of my
happy customers.

# Jim Del Vecchio


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
C++ is to C, as lung cancer is to lung.
From: fehlau@pa881a.inland.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Home Self Defense
Date: 18 Dec 92 13:35:36 GMT
Organization: Inland Steel Company, East Chicago, IN

In article #14627 Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona writes:
# 
# One reason for discussing what to do is that you will not have time
# to think when the intruder is in your home.  If you don't know what to
# do, you'll probably do something stupid.  
# 
# The less time you spend thinking about (1) protecting your family,
# (2) protecting your health, and (3) keeping yourself out of jail, 
# the more likely you are to suffer injury to your family or yourself
# or a jail sentence (I understand that vigilantes are *real* popular
# in the showers 8^).
#
# 
I agree with Andrew's philosophy, that is, you must prepare and reherse
a plan with all of your family in case a perp enters your home.  More
importantly you must reherse in your mind what you will do in various
scenarios.  I realize you can't cover all situations, but thinking
about them and your reaction to them will better prepare you
psychologically for that unfortunate day.

More importantly perhaps is rehersing what you will say to the police
if you decide to talk to them first instead of a lawyer.  For example,
you could say the following:

	I awoke in the middle of the night to a loud crashing noise.  I
	decided to investigate and discovered an unwelcome intruder in
	my house.  I clearly identified him/her as a complete stranger
	and became afraid for myself and my families lives.  I immediately
	yelled "stop, or I'll shoot".  The intruder came toward me, and
	fearing for my life and my families lives, fired to stop him.
	After this I called the police.

I realize this is rather long and under stress very dificult to say,
but that's why it is important to continually rehearse this for the
following reasons:

	1-  It shows rational control of all thinking processes.
	2-  You have made a clear I.D. of the intruder and,
	3-  Determining he is a stranger made you afraid for your
		life, making using deadly force reasonable but not
		necessary at this point.
	4-  Yelling "stop" shows you were content to end the encounter
		without using deadly force.
	5-  However, the intruder chose to ignore the warning (you
		were willing to let him turn around and escape your home
		unharmed), so you chose to *stop* him/her.  The word
		*stop* is important here because you only want to use as
		much force as necessary to stop the intruder from
		approaching you or your family (where she can hurt/kill
		you).  You do not wish to kill this person to stop him.

-- Eric
From: jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Toy guns (was: More newbie questions)
Date: 20 Dec 92 15:33:30 GMT
Organization: Hand Held Products, Inc.

In article <19480@smoke.brl.mil> gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes:
# 
[...[
# 
# In some ways it is inadvisable to let kids think that death and
# destruction are fun, but if you try to prohibit it I think you'll
# find you're running against the current TV, comics, and movie culture.

Look around to see the results of not "running against the current TV, comics,  
and movie culture".  I encourage you to teach your children respect for life   
and property even if that is not "in style" at present.

Toy guns are NOT permitted in my house, nor any toy weapon used for  
play-killing. 

Jim
--
Jim De Arras            | The opinions expressed herein are
Hand Held Products, Inc.| not necessarily those of Hand 
804.784.3090 voice      | Held Products, Inc., and may not 
804.784.3147 FAX        | even be mine. Use at your own risk
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Vz-52 warning!
Date: 13 Dec 92 15:46:26 GMT
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi

If you have a Chech Vz-52 pistol (a.k.a. CZ-52) DO NOT DRY FIRE IT!
I did and I am now trying to figure out how I will replace the firing
pin. 8-( The tip end of the striker broke off and flew out the end
of the barrel. Grumble.
-- 

Donald R. Newcomb                * Life only admits two states: 
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu        * growing and dying. So what,
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet            * if I've put on a little weight?
From: GWH@UH.EDU (Gregory W Hayes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Silenced M1911s (was RE: Silenced Revolvers)
Date: 12 Dec 92 17:16:36 GMT
Organization: University of Houston

I remember from reading in one of the _Jane's_ books several years ago
that assasin weapons frequently had a latch or catch to make the slide
inoperative to further quiet the weapon.  This deactivation of the slide
put undue stresses on the mechanism and lead to the very short life of
the weapon.

Greg Hayes
--
Gregory W. Hayes

GWH@UH.EDU	greg@simpsons.cc.uh.edu
DISCLAIMER: I don't get paid enough to have an opinion...
University of Houston
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: A gun in the car
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:18:53 GMT
Organization: University of Kentucky, USA. -5 GMT

dmunroe@hpvclmun.vcd.hp.com (Dave Munroe) writes:

#I agree that prevention is the best course.  Still, for those that do carry
#a gun in their car, with the feeling that they might really need it, would
#you have it:

#	- out in the open on the passenger seat?

    This is how I do it here in Kentucky where open carry is legal.
    The glovebox would be a close second. If pulled over and the firearm is
    in the seat, place it on the dash (drivers side corner).
    I have been pulled over with a loaded gun on the dash in plain view with
    never a word said.
    The seat is best for quick retrieval. But needless to say, one should
    be alert and perceive a threat before the perp is breaking your window.

#       - under the drivers seat?

    This would be considered concealed and illegal in many places.
    As would if the gun were in the seat or on the dash *and* covered
    (even partially) with a towel/rag, paper, etc.

#-Dave
From: ghm@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why no plastic cased .38 special?
Date: 21 Dec 92 03:23:52 GMT
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia

ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:

#While staring at soem ACTIV brand 12 guage shells and reading my
#newest aquisitions (Cartridges of the World) I got to wondering...

#Why are there no {rifle,pistol, revolver} rounds loaded in plastic
#cases?  Sure, we have the Aluminum Blazers, but why not plastic? ....

Anyone (other than me:-) recall the Dardick and its "trounds"?
These came in two calibres (.22 and .38), with the .38 being
ballistically equivalent to a .38 Special.  The tround was
a 3-sided plastic case  -  in cross-section it would have looked
like a triangle constructed with 3 arcs of a circle.

Geoff Miller  (g-miller@adfa.oz.au)
Computer Centre, Australian Defence Force Academy
From: smpod@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Enfield Questions
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:59:05 GMT
Organization: who knows


 donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) writes...
# slv4b@cc.usu.edu writes:
##     I'm thinking of buying an Enfield .303 and would like any opinion
##concerning this rifle.  Is ammo for it fairly assessible and reasonably
##priced?        
#... 
#One drawback is that, aside from one company (Hornady, I believe),

You can get Hornady or Sierra .311 softpoint bullets.

 you
#absolutely MUST use surplus ammo because new .303 British works at higher
#pressures that the Enfield can take safely.  Also, that surplus ammo will
#be corrosively primed, so you have to clean the gun the very day that you
#shoot or you may trash the barrel.

You can buy non-corrosive boxer primed Yugoslavian or Greek ammo at a cheap
price.  Century at one time was selling the Greek stuff in stripper clips for
about $0.12/round!
From: bercov@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (John Bercovitz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: MAC10 - open bolt v. closed bolt
Date: 19 Dec 92 15:20:19 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California

In article <199212172133.AA14686@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> gtao@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu 
(Greg ) writes:

#Having no personal experience with the MAC10, I decided to turn to 
#you netters.  I have always liked the MAC10, tho' I have never had 
#the occasion to fire one.  One recent dealer price I was quoted was
#about $300 for the closed-bolt model, and about $800 for the open
#bolt model.  Both were chambered in 9mm, and I guess the open-bolt
#model is about 10 years old.

#I was wondering what the advantages are to owning an open-bolt
#MAC10?  I have heard that they are easily converted to full-auto, 
#but that is illegal in my state, and I have no intention of doing
#so.  Is the open-bolt any more durable?  Is it more accurate? ...

There are a lot of qualified people in this group who could answer your 
question but I'm beginning to think they missed your post.  So here are
some thoughts from someone not qualified; hope they help:

An open bolt has an advantage when you're firing full-auto -- you won't
get a "cook-off".  A cook-off is what happens when you've been firing
a closed bolt full auto for an enjoyable amount of time so that its
chamber has become hot.  After releasing the trigger, the gun stops
with a round chambered and the bolt closed.  The heat of the chamber 
cooks off that chambered round.

The disadvantage of an open-bolt semi-auto is that the bolt is slamming
shut at the time you are trying to be very steady, that is, the time 
between when the sear is released and the time when the bullet leaves 
the barrel.  For this reason, an open-bolt semi-auto should be very hard
to shoot accurately.  Also, of course, this causes in effect, a very long
"lock time".

As to whether it is easier to convert an open-bolt to full auto; this sounds
like a reasonable general statement to me.   To give an unqualified answer, I
think one would have to examine the particular design in question, though.

John Bercovitz
From: keith@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca (Keith de Solla)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: .41 AE
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:55:38 GMT
Organization: Canadian Microelectronics Corporation

Does the .41AE exist in any way, shape or form anymore?  Does anyone
sell .41AE brass and reloading dies?  Do enough (any?) factory loads
exist to allow it to qualify for IPSC?

Rumour was that a kit was available to convert a Browning Hi-Power
to .41AE.  Is this kit available anywhere?  It would seem like an
easy way to move up to major power factor in IPSC.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
| Keith P. de Solla, P.Eng |  "Be sure brain is engaged before    |
| CMC                      |   putting mouth in gear"             |
| keith@orion.ic.cmc.ca    |                                      |