HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: krogers@javelin.sim.es.com (K. Rogers)
Subject: Re: Combat Archery
Reply-To: krogers@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, Utah
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:02:42 GMT

perkins@MSUPA.PA.MSU.EDU writes:

>Jeremy de Merstone greets the folk of the Rialto, especially
>krogers@javelin.sim.es.com (K. Rogers), who responded to my earlier posting:

[Regarding pendulum ballistic measuring device]

>The accuracy of the measurement, on the other hand is likely to be a bit
>questionable (the harder the blob is hit, the *higher* it swings as well as
>swinging further out, so you have to account for the angle-dependent
>potential energy change -- not impossible, but as was pointed out in an
>earlier posting, anything to do with conservation of energy in such a
>measurement is likely to cause difficulty, as there is considerable thermal
>and deformational energy transferred in the process).

What?  You can't do elliptical integrals on the fly?  What kind of
wimpy techno-weenie are you anyways!  ;^)

>  One could easily get
>a good *relative* measurement (i.e., the precision of the measurement may
>be pretty good with even a simple version of the device), but converting it
>to an *absolute* measurement in nice metric or English units for comparison
>with other devices may not be so trivial (hence my comment about *accuracy*
>requiring a particularly well-designed and probably expensive model).

You're right here, I'm not sure of the overall absolute measurement
accuracy.  First question is would it be good enough (I'll let the you
guys decide what's good enough).  Second thought is, could it be made
more accurate in measureing absolute momenta if it were calibrated
with some known values determined by other means - such as your camera
method?

Known bows and arrows could be fired at the cheap but fast-to-use
pendulum and the swings merely measured giving a family of curves for
different weight arrows.  That way you don't even need to do the
eliptical integrals if the sin(theta) ~= theta approximation for small
thetas doesn't hold too well.  Once calibrated, field measurements
would involve just: weigh the arrow, shoot the playdough, measure the
swing and look up the momentum off the chart.  If the arrow's
particular weight doesn't exactly match one of the curves on the
chart, use the next weight up.

> Jeremy de Merstone       George J Perkins    perkins@msupa.pa.msu.edu
> North Woods, MidRealm    East Lansing, MI    perkins@msupa (Bitnet)

Now, if you'll excuse me, I gotta get back techno-weeniing before my
boss shows up.
-- 
Keith Rogers
krogers@javelin.sim.es.com
From: Rhianna.Selwyn@f1014.n147.z1.fidonet.org (Rhianna Selwyn)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: kids
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:23:48 -0500

I can understand what you mean about wanting your children to enjoy your
(hopefully) favorite hobby.  Mine has been raised in the SCA, even though she
seldom goes to events with me.  I'm one of those that goes eventing to "get
away," but only from my own.  And I have to admit, all of the children I've seen
at events (with very few exceptions!) are well mannered and Very well behaved. 
I guess that comes from having 200 some odd parents around every time you're at
an event. ;)  I would love to be able to take mine to more events, but due to
mundane problems (dabilities) she is difficult to keep "in the field" as it
were.  I'm glad to know that there are people out there with the patience and
fortitude to take their kids along.

                                                        **Rhianna**

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: 0003900943@mcimail.COM (Marla Lecin)
Subject: Pennsic Images
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:36:00 GMT


Greetings from Jessa d'Avondale. 

Picture this: 

You have been invited by friends for dinner.  When you arrive, the camp is
bedecked with banners.  Servants in livery welcome you and fetch you drinks.
The dining pavilion is likewise decorated in livery colors, with pennons on
the walls, and candelabras on the tables.  A magnificent feast is spread out
on the sideboard, and minstrels are there to entertain. 

The back of the tent is open to admit cool air, and through it you can see...
a lush green cornfield, only a few feet away. 

I could almost hear a voice whispering, "If you recreate it, they will
come...".  I kept looking for Henry V to step out of the stalks. 


Jessa 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Alexander of Kiev (mka Carl Alexander))
Subject: Re: Pennsic in brief
Organization: The Rialto
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:55:07 GMT

Nicholas van Leyden writes:
 
>Arval (Josh Mittleman) writes:
>
>>The weather sucked green rocks.... The rest of week alternated among
>>dreary rain, dank overcast, bitter-cold nights, and steamy sunshine.  
>
>You should have been at the Ansteorran-Trimaran War, where the temperature
>hovered around 100.  (And yes, I still wore Tudor and Elizabethan.)
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  
Ah -- I now understand many of Nicholas' posts far better.  Poor lad;
not his fault if he's irrational:  the heat, you know.  ;^) 
 
Personally, I found the weather far more comfortable than I recall 
from Pennsics past.  I was able to run around in one or two layers 
of cotton tunics most of the time, adding my light-weight wool tunic
on the cooler mornings and evenings.  I only recall wearing my cloak 
on two or three evenings, and only wore my heavy wool poncho during 
the Storm of Great Ferocity and on a couple of occasions when the 
sky fell in what turned out to be a far more mild manner.  Of course,
my perspective may be influenced by the fact that I arrived on 
friday (the 7th) and was able to pitch my tent on dry, level ground -- 
thus enabling me to take a rather detached view of the Storm.
 
I carried a tightly folded nylon poncho in my belt pouch throughout 
the war.  I used it only once or twice, but was constantly glad of 
its presence.  However it crossed my mind that it might be possible 
to do better with regard to emergency rain gear:  I seem to recall 
reading somewhere that fairly light-weight, water-repellant silks 
were developed in period.  If this is correct, then a silk rain 
poncho would be period, and would probably have the advantage of 
packing even smaller than a nylon one.  I'd appreciate hearing from
anyone who knows anything about period water-repellant silks, or 
who has any suggestions about what sort of silk I should look for 
in the fabric store for such a purpose.  And if anyone actually 
has documentation for a light-weight, water-repellant silk over-
garment, I'd especially love to hear about that.
 
Alas, my trick ankle, the fact that the waterproofing of my boots 
had prematurely dissipated, and the mud seem to have conspired to
destroy my boots.  I am now seriously considering having a pair 
of period boots custom made (after paying off some more urgent 
bills).  I'd appreciate any information at all about bootmakers
who are experienced both with making good, sturdy period footwear
and with orthopedic work.
 
Alexander of Kiev                       Carolingia, East

Carl Alexander                          Harvard Square, Cambridge, Mass.
carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu
From: Leonard.Erickson@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Leonard Erickson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic in brief
Date: 20 Aug 92 00:40:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.714411360.F00001

In a message to All <08-19-92 17:55> Alexander of Kiev wrote:

Ao>  I carried a tightly folded nylon poncho in my belt pouch throughout
Ao>  the war.  I used it only once or twice, but was constantly glad of
Ao>  its presence.  However it crossed my mind that it might be possible
Ao>  to do better with regard to emergency rain gear:  I seem to recall
Ao>  reading somewhere that fairly light-weight, water-repellant silks
Ao>  were developed in period.  If this is correct, then a silk rain
Ao>  poncho would be period, and would probably have the advantage of
Ao>  packing even smaller than a nylon one.  I'd appreciate hearing from
Ao>  anyone who knows anything about period water-repellant silks, or
Ao>  who has any suggestions about what sort of silk I should look for
Ao>  in the fabric store for such a purpose.  And if anyone actually
Ao>  has documentation for a light-weight, water-repellant silk over-
Ao>  garment, I'd especially love to hear about that.

I cannot recall where I saw it (probably in a <shudder> "historical novel") 
But I have somewhere seen a reference to a cloak of "oiled silk" used for 
much the same purpose as your were describing.

I offer this for what little it may be worth... 
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Griffin fitz Korwyn Ariannaid
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 16:44:14 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

I am very pleased to announce the birth of a son to Master Korwyn Ariannaid
and Mistress Margaret Swynford of Bristow.  Griffin Carlisle Scott,
unwilling to wait for his anticipated birth date in October, was born 13
August, and weighed in at 4 lb. 5 1/4 oz., 16 1/2 inches.  All things
considered, mother, father, and child, are doing quite wonderfully well.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: brandon@husc9.harvard.edu (Joshua "doc" Brandon)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Air flight (OOP!)
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:02:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Aug21.150219.14988
Organization: Harvard University Science Center


Nicholas van Leyden writes:

>there are many crackpots around who claim that the scientific
>establishment is too pigheaded to accept their theories.  But
>there are also times when the scientific establishment really
>is pigheaded.  Take the Smithsonian Institution, for example,
>which refused to admit, up until three or four years ago, that 
>the Wright brothers could have made the first airplane flight.

That was only partly a question of pigheadedness, and not as outrageous as
it sounds by any means!  The Smithsonian didn't deny that the Wright
brothers did fly, and they didn't claim that ancient Mayan astronauts had
done it first.  What they *did* claim is that a flight had been made a few
years (not sure exactly) before the Wright brothers by a rival researcher
in the field.  His plane was launched from some sort of catapault, and
apparently went up and back down immediately (crash!).  It was not considered a
"flight" by most people, and is not now.  However, the Smithsonian happened
to be funding him.....

This story is a fine example of institutional bias and willful blindness,
which is known to happen.  However, this really has very little to do with
what was probably heard at Pennsic --- there was a lively scientific debate
about the question of flight, and the Wright brothers were not "ignored" by
anyone.  Most of the time, it's really very easy to tell the difference
between a legitimate scientific dispute, and a crackpot with a persecution
theory.

Sorry for taking this discussion so far out of period, but it *is* relevant
to the encouragement of proper historical research....

Para servir a ustedes,

	Simon Santiago de Cordoba		Joshua Brandon
	Duncharloch, Carolingia, EK		brandon@husc.harvard.edu
YAZ/mycroft
From: kuijt@umiacs.umd.edu (David Kuijt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic, Some Thoughts
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:00:26 GMT
Organization: UMIACS, University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742

Greetings unto the rialto from Dafydd ap Gwystl.

Vajk mentions some ideas regarding A&S at Pennsic:

>There seems to be a desire to have more in-depth arts and sciences at Pennsic.
>More specifically, I have heard of a desire to have a separate and more or less
>permanent setup at Pennsic for the practice of the A&S.  A large tent or
>pavilion, or perhaps an encampment of artisans dedicated to teaching/
>demonstrating their skills was one suggestion.  

This is related to an idea that the University of Atlantia has been
experimenting with for a year or so: the "town".  Instead of 1, 2, or
3 hour classes in the "schoolhouse" model, some classes are taught
as if the teacher was a craftsperson in a town, and the students were
apprentices for the day.  Advantages are: low student/teacher ratio,
easy to teach (and learn) in persona, flexibility ("go get lunch,
then come back"), accessibility (the "town" classes allow other
interested people to walk by the "shop" and listen in without causing
the disruption that would occur with a more formal lecture environment),
and probably some things I haven't thought of yet.

The disadvantage is mainly that not all crafts are suitable for this
approach--if you need lots of tools, or your tools are all modern, or
you need quiet dust-free environments (calligraphy) it is very hard
to make it work in a "town".  For shoemaking, carpentry, weaving,
spinning, basketry, and other cottage crafts it can work very well.



	Dafydd ap Gwystl			David Kuijt
	Barony of Storvik			kuijt@umiacs.umd.edu
	Kingdom of Atlantia			(MD,DC,VA,NC,SC)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Kingdom Timing
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 14:42:44 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!  Bertram wrote:

> I'm puzzled.  Everyone is making lots of noise about Drachenwald
> becoming a kingdom soon and how great this is.  I don't begrudge
> the good folks across the Atlantic their future kingdom status,
> but I do have some questions about the timing of things... Given that
> rather "low" average "SCA-age" is _now_ or a year from now really
> the right time for Drachenwald to become a kingdom?  Would
> another year be "enough" time to make a difference?

The practical answer, Bertram, is that Drachenwald as a whole is no longer
profitting from its association with the East.  Given the communication
difficulty, Drachenwald has become too large for the Eastern officers to
effectively manage.  For years, the Eastern officers have done little more
than offer advice and rubberstamp Drachenwald's own decisions.  There are
exceptions and Drachenwald has its own communications problems, but to put
it plainly, the East is so large that it no longer has the resources to
make any real contribution to Drachenwald's overall development.

Comparing Drachenwald to Aethelmearc is dangerous, because they are
completely different: Drachenwald has been semi-independent for much longer
than Aethelmearc has existed, and the geography makes everything different.
Drachenwald is culturally separate from the East, operating under different
mundane laws, in different circumstances.

When it comes right down to it, my opinion is this: I cannot state any
concrete reason why Drachenwald shouldn't be a kingdom, and most of the
Drachenwalder want it.  Therefore, I see no reason to deny it.


In a related note, Alexander suggested that the East should plan to spawn
two new principalities in the north and center of the kingdom.  Discussion
of principalities in those parts of the kingdom has been on-going for
years, Alexander.  The latest round of discussion seems more promising than
previous ones, but there are still numerous problems to be resolved.  It is
a matter that should definitely not be rushed and forced; if it is going to
work, it has to grow naturally as a result of regional unity and resolve.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Authenticity, Atmosphere & SCA
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:49:04 GMT
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <betel.714284495@camelot> betel@camelot.bradley.edu (Robert Crawford) writes:
>
>	Flash ignorance isn't limited to the SCA, of course. 
>
>	But still, it doesn't match with the idiocy of people taking
>pictures of a _fire_ with flashes _on_.

I've seen worse . . .  Like trying to take pictures of fireworks with
flash . . .

I think a large part of the problem (aside, that is, from the courtesy
aspects and authenticity aspects that have already been discussed at
some length) is the number of cameras that can't be controled
adequately.  Many people I know are suprised to find out that I even
*own* a flash--so rarely do I use it, but for many newer cameras, it's
part of the camera and can't be disabled.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: kids in SCA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:16:56 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!

I believe that children properly involved in the SCA can be more valuable
than most of our newer members.  I would offer several guidelines:

1) Children treated with respect and courtesy will learn to return it.
   An effort to involve children in your favorite activity will pay off
   handsomely.  But: 

2) Children are not adults.  Young children tire quickly.  Tired children
   are often disruptive and difficult.  Therefore:

3) When you work with children, keep in mind that you need to teach them in
   small doses, liberally mixed with play.  And:

4) Children are always their parents' responsibility.  The SCA is not a
   free day-care service.  It should not become one.  If parents want
   baby-sitting, they can arrange with someone to do it for them, or they
   can band together to share the duties.  It should never become an
   official activity of the organization.  A parent who abandons his child
   to his own devices at an event is as guilty as one who leaves his child
   to play in a shopping mall.  

Dealing with children at events is not exactly the same as dealing with
other newcomers, but it is not hugely different.  Many of the same
techniques will work well.  Just like newcomers, children want some way to
participate and feel like they are important and that they belong.  Like
newcomers, they profit from having some experienced member to turn to for
advice, and to help them over initial nervousness.  Just as each of us
should feel a duty to help out new members, we should feel an obligation to
work with children from time to time.  

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic, Some Thoughts
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:21:52 GMT
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <16847A08C.00030929@ysub.ysu.edu> 00030929@ysub.ysu.edu writes:
>Did anyone else get the same feeling I did about Pennsic this year, that it
>was rather subdued?  I have come away feeling as if it were not quite the
>usual this year.  It might be PPD, but I don't think so.  It is true that
>I commuted quite a bit, much of it with SCA business as well as mundane, so
>was not on-site for the whole time, and that may have influenced it.  Still,
>something seemed to be missing.

I wasn't there (though my Lady Wife was--for the first time), but . . .

I would suggest that there might be some relationship to the current
economic climate.  Use whatever terms you like, but Things Aren't
Good.

>===============================================================================
>On another matter, it has come to my attention that perhaps half a dozen
>persons, so far as I am aware, have independently arrived at similar ideas
>regarding Pennsic arts and sciences.  What follows is a distillation of those
>ideas.

Standard answer number one:  It's your idea, you implement it.  :-)

>==============================================================================
>Information needed:
> 
>    I spoke to someone this year who claimed to have gone to an encampment
>which was clothing optional.  
> 
>Please contact me by e-mail on this subject, as there are some on the Net that
>I'm sure would rather avoid the subject.

I don't think this need be kept off line (though anyone who wants to
certainly can).  Given the relative 'coolness' of the medium and
general SCA attitudes, I don't think people will have any trouble
discussing the issue calmly.  (*Will*we*?  :-) )

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: Some Future War
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:19:07 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Bertram of Bearington (Dave Schroeder) writes:

>Silver Buccle responds, "Your ancient rights will be respected.
>If you wish to fertilize *Our* land with *your* blood you have 
>Our leave, so long as you do not molest Our serfs or Our cattle."

Serfs?  But that word won't even be invented until the 17th Century!

-- Nicholas van Leyden
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic Update (End)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 19:48:00 -0500

> The Horseclans, Allies to my own House Drunken Badger, claim
> innocence.
 
Do say 'Hello' to Carol, a charming lady member of House Drunken Badger with
whom I had the distinct pleasure of sharing a ride with on the last day of the
War...
 
Lord Macsen ap Rhys of Wyvernhall
House Rivendell, Bowman's Rest
From: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Combat archery objections....
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:45:08 GMT
Reply-To: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <714020160.F00001@ocitor.fidonet>,
Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton) writes:

>  -> Why, good for them.  I wish there were more of them.  My experience is
>  -> that heavies hate archers for two reasons that one 
>  -> can almost sympathize
>  -> with:
> 
>  -> a.  They have invested time, money, and energy (not 
>  -> to mention all those
>  ->     bruises) in getting to be heavy fighters, and 
>  -> they resent some little
>  ->     shrimp nailing them from N yards away where they can't possibly hit
>  ->     them with a stick.
>      My rationale would be more like "I spent all this time and energy 
>  coming to this war, plus the effort of armoring up this morning, for 
>  what?  To die to an arrow?  There's even less learning in that than in 
>  being one-shotted by a duke!  I came all this way to get some fighting 
>  in."
>      Yes, some of it is the effect of dying to someone out of sword 
>  range.  Sure, it's perfectly period to die to an arrow, but there's 
>  no learning, and no chance that your previous efforts to learn will 
>  help you live.

Ah, yes - why, that's just what the French said, right after Agincourt . . .

		:-)

Sorry, but I can't feel any sympathy.  If you're going to participate
in a mixed battle with archers, the POINT is that you can get ousted by
a single arrow.

I'd say if you didn't want to run that risk, you shouldn't be participating
in those events.

(Hmmm . . . or does that sound a bit too intolerant?  Or just plain obvious?)

				- - Steve