HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: foax@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Marc and Memory and Clyde.
Date: 31 Jul 92 02:01:13 EDT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Cornell University

In article <1992Jul27.233957.28990@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>,
jrm3a@cyclops.micr.Virginia.EDU (Jonathan Moll) writes: 
> Marc Barrett sez:
>>the 256Mbit memories that IBM, Sharp and a German firm (I forget the name)
>>are collaborating on use standard memory techniques, pushed to their
>>limits.
> 
> Gee -SB- what limits are we talking about?  (My GOD, it's FULL of ELECTRONS)
> (NO you FOOL! Put down that arc welder! Argghhh refractory metals.... I'm
>  melting.....)

(By the way, I thought the German firm was Siemens.)

I can think of two limits off-hand.  One is the limit in standard lithography
techniques, used to etch the circuit lines onto the chip.  Current procedures
use ultraviolet.  If you try making the circuit lines smaller than the
wavelength of the light being used to etch the lines, you are doomed to
failure.  So you have to go to shorter wavelengths, and that means X-rays.
Oh joy.  Not only are X-rays rather harmful to human tissue, they don't take
kindly to being reflected or focused in normal ways.  Try bouncing X-rays
off a mirror at anything greater than a very shallow angle and they get
absorbed.  Try refracting them with a lens and they get absorbed or scatter
off in a random direction.  These problems aren't insoluble, but they'll
take a lot of engineering.  (There's only one current way of making an
X-ray telescope:  you need a bunch of nested mirrors, all of which are
only slightly different from cylindrical; this keeps the X-ray's reflection
angles small.)

The other limit actually may still lie in the future; it involves quantum
mechanical effects between the electrons.  Current microelectronics still
assumes classical behavior of the electrons (i.e. they behave as most
people would expect charged particles to behave).  But if the circuit
lines become too small, and too close together, you start seeing quantum
mechanical behavior in the electrons, which is far from intuitive.  For
example, electrons could "tunnel" across small insulating barriers; i.e.
there would be a substantial probability for a given electron, upon
reaching the barrier, to suddenly find itself on the other side.  Once
effects like this come into play, standard electrical engineering goes
out the window.

Both of these are important for all microelectronics, and are admittedly
a bit esoteric.  If anyone else can think of other, more practical or
specific limits in RAM chip-making, please post.
-- 

--Colin Howell			email to howell@astrosun.tn.cornell.edu
--Cornell Astronomy Dept.	(hopefully switching to computer science)
From: jason@edsi.plexus.COM (Jason White)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: OH MY GOD...I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I JUST SAW
Date: 29 Jul 92 21:28:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: edsi.1992Jul29.212851.20211
Organization: Enterprise Data Systems Incorporated, Appleton WI

jbgoldsm@cats.ucsc.edu (Joshua B Goldsmith) writes:


>I saw it too, and that was here on the opposite side of the US way out
>in California.  Amazing, I wish I recorded it...  That is the first TV
>advertisement that I have EVER seen for an Amiga.  It wasn't a bad commercial
>either though it could have given more details about the CDTV itself...

>Finally some advertising...

Commodore ran a short ad campaign on MTV(WHY MTV, people???), but the ads
didn't say a lot about the computer, and I only saw about 4 commercials.

-- 
Jason White                 | I am Amiga
jason@edsi.plexus.COM       | hear me roar!
                            |     /
SYSOP of Computer Continent |   \/
From: Mike_Whalen@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Mike Whalen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: How to Save the Amiga 
Distribution: world
Date: 29 Jul 92 10:30:23 CST
Organization: The Amiga GateWay BBS * New Orleans, La.

I am not going to bother to quote you because I agree with everything you
said!

I think we should turn this one around on Commodore. I don't care if it
took a syndicated newspaper article to wake up Commodore or IF they think
everything is ok..

It's NOT alright!

I am sick of hearing Commodore when they come under serious criticism. That
does NOTHING for us. I feel like I have wasted $1000 on this blasted
computer because I can't do crap with it that anyone will take notice and
say, Hey that's cool.

People think it's dead because Commodore says nothing. When they do say
something it's always, "We're going to announce something at this next
show." Yeah, right.. please get a life Commodore!

I am personally sick and tired of carrying your weight. I have run out of
things to recommend the Amiga for because it's not going anywhere. 

Let's TURN THIS BUGGER AROUND ON THEM!

I mean it! If Commodore won't listen to us, then maybe Mr. Robinson will.
Maybe if he gets enough responses from us saying, "No, everything is NOT
alright. Commodore is lying to you as much as they is lying to us." Then
maybe he will listen to us before Commodore because WE buy the machines. We
support it. We advertise the bloody thing! 

If it destroys the Amiga.. when then it's Commodore's fault. Not ours. We
have done our part and now it's time to start hitting Commodore with some
force. It's not right for us to shed thousands of dollars into our machines
that are pitiful excuses for upgrades from previous machines.

Like I said, if the Amiga dies.. it dies. That's in Commodore's hands. We
can show people the EuroDemos and talk about how cool it is.. but when Joe
Amiga Fan is sitting at his home and he can't get any help from Commodore
or he reads articles that says it's dead.. he is NOT going to buy one.
Forget it. We can only do so much. Commodore has to advertise. Commodore
has to better it's relationships with the dealers. That's just not in our
hands.

Jeez. This is so rediculous. I can't believe they want us to lie for them
now. Everything it NOT alright.

Call or WRITE Mr. Robinson and tell him, "No! Everything is NOT alright. We
as Amiga fans are sick of this."

Do it now.

Mike.. 

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

---------
Phillip Robinson author of Washington Post/San Jose Mercury
article is RIGHT about Commodore atrocities regarding the Amiga!
Let's make HIM our voice! Since Commodore won't listen to us!

                              Phil Robinson
                              P.O. Box 1377
                           Sausalito, CA  94966
---------

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:38:03 GMT

In <1992Jul24.161543.29658@ra.msstate.edu> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>The original Mac II video boards could be made to work with NTSC using a
>special cable and some software from Apple.  I saw an early Mac II display
>a B&W interlaced image on a //GS color monitor (analog CGA-res like the
>A108x).  It was about as usable as an Amiga in interlace mode.

Thanks for that information.. never heard of it. But the fact that it was
B&W seems to indicate that they just programmed the video controller for
NTSC frequencies and interlace mode but didn't have a PAL or NTSC encoder
for adding the color burst and carrier (i.e. something like the small A520
box).

>I'm not a hardware type, but with PCs the IDE drives tend to transfer data
>much more quickly on machines with faster processors.  If this is the case
>the A600 may not make such a great showing.  It will be interesting to see
>how fast the IDE drives are on the A600 and whether or not there is any
>CPU left for anything else.

There's probably not much CPU for anything else. But for comparison to
a Mac this isn't interesting as it would have difficulties to spent that
extra CPU time for anything.

>>Shows how much you know about VGA. While 160x480 possibly could use 
>>VGA frequencies the 160x960 can never be VGA as VGA cannot display 960 lines.

>Oh really?  How is it then that every VGA, SVGA, and multiscan monitor that
>I've used with my A3000 can display 960 lines?  Of course it flickers  and 
>looks like crap due to the interlace, but then again that is a common problem 
>that Amigas seem to have.  :-)

Well, check a NEC2A (which is advertised as SVGA 1024x768) if it can display
960 lines interlaced.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dano@srl01.usl.edu (Dan Stephenson)
Subject: Amigan perspective on audio
Summary: My AMigan friend heard my SB
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 05:53:24 GMT

Basically, I wowed my Amigan friend (A500)
with my SoundBlaster's digitized speech.
He did NOT say the SB was of better quality, but that
"wow, the Amiga doesn't have sound this good, it would
take up too much disk space"

I think the lack of hard drives as a standard on Amigas
has been its #1 drawback/problem.
--
Dan Stephenson|das9674@usl.edu masres10@ucs.usl.edu dano@srl01.cacs.usl.edu
Come all of you you/Who are not satisfied/As rulers in a lone wall/
papered room/Full of mute bird and flowers that /Falsely bloom/And
closets choked with dreams that long ago died,... --Judy Collins
From: peter@blade (Peter Korsten)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why the Amiga is better than the Falcon
Date: 22 Jul 92 13:23:20 GMT
Organization: MCGV Stack, Eindhoven University of Technology, the Netherlands.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
: >Compare with A600? OK, A600 exists, Falcon doesn't... That simple.
: 
: 	Its simple in area's where the A600 is available.  I haven't seen 
:   any around here in the local Amiga dealers, so its just as much vapor to
:   me as the Falcon.

In that case, let me tell you: it exists. I've seen one, it's really
a strange thing: very small, very heavy, nice styling that differs
completely from the good ol' 5000.

But that you haven't seen one, might also haveto do with the fact
that you will have to go to a computer shop to see one. It's not
that door-to-door salesmen show you a 600 and ask "Wanna buy one?"

Atari might try that, though, they might sell some more ST's.
We had a computer shop here in Eindhoven (US Action) that sold
Amigas, Ataris and PC boxes. They threw out the Ataris, then the
PCs (????) and now there are THREE shops (Computer Connection, with
an Union Jack in the C's) that sell PCs, Amigas and Sega/Nintendos.
No sign of Atari.

But what if the Falcon really comes out? What DO you have? You have
a machine that has many more features than any existing ATARI. Also
more than any existing Amiga (though we don't know what Commodore
has in it's pipeline), but what is the difference?

Will MultiTOS run on any Atari ST? They can't even write an operating
system that runs on any hardware configuration. Compare THAT to the
Amiga. The Amiga doesn't have superior hardware anymore, but the
software surely is better than any MS-DOS, any TOS and any MacOS
before System 7 (and we even have pre-emptive multitasking).

So you have a brand new computer and the only resemblence with your
ST is the name Atari. Then what? Are you happy that you have a
computer that can't use all those wonderful features that the
Falcon has?

So what if it IS an Amiga basher? The Amiga's installed base is
quite a bit larger than the Atari's, so if anyone is going to
be bashed it's the ST.

And I keep refusing to believe that Atari can make a kinda-NeXT
for $700.

: 						G.Greene

--
Peter Korsten, in real life peter@stack.urc.tue.nl
"Now that we know how humans do it, how does the Amiga do it ?"
- Amiga ROM Kernel Reference Manual, Libraries & Devices, 2nd edition
--- This signature will change when I get the 3rd edition ---
From: hawk@pnet01.cts.com (John Anderson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amigas are *HOT*
Date: 25 Jul 92 15:16:09 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet01], El Cajon CA


>> Would anyone else out there in AmigaLand like an Amiga laptop?  How about 2
>>Yes.  I'd like a 68000-based laptop, if I could.                            
                                                                              
>  Maybe you should just buy a Powerbook 100 Greg :-)                         
>  $899 for a 4/40 version at Price Club.                                     
>Evan (who loves his PB100, even though nobody else does).                    
>Evan Torrie.  Stanford University, Class of 199?                             
                                                                              
  Dang! Only 900 bucks! That seems pretty cool for a little portable word     
processing machine. I might snatch one up. What else besides 4 megs RAM and   
40 meg hard drive (which I assume the 4/40 standa for) does the little        
puppy come with? Floppy, expansion ports, etc.                                

UUCP: {hplabs!hp-sdd ucsd nosc}!crash!pnet01!hawk
ARPA: crash!pnet01!hawk@nosc.mil                 
INET: hawk@pnet01.cts.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: I am giving up on the Amiga
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 06:16:44 GMT

jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
: Exactly my point, John.  OS/2 2.0 and AmigaDOS 2.04 do *not* have roughly
: equivalent usefulness and functionality.  So why should they be expected
: to run on the same hardware and occupy the same amount of RAM and HD space?

Another well known OS used by a well-known CD-I system runs an OS,
which, with an extra 350k of source code (actually, it was a bit
less), runs with VM, MP, and resource tracking.  That leaves oh, 32
megabytes +?  What makes you think that it will take more than that to
add it to AmigaDos/AmigaOS?

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :) :)
(:"The person who said size doesn't matter was probably a very small man":)
(:	gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu			Gregory R. Block         :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: PC World's John C. Dvorak Speaks Out...
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 18:32:26 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Jul25.211837.19302@cheshire.oxy.edu> <3423@faatcrl.UUCP>

Pioneer always uses Jerry "what? you want me to pay for it?" Pournelle
as their spokesman for their CD-ROM drives.

I am being dead serious when I say this makes their drives very
unappealing to me. 

TomK@cup.portal.com
Tom Krotchko
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dtiberio@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio)
Subject: Re: Atari Falcon Rumor IS Real!
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 04:34:13 GMT

In article <4885@tuegate.tue.nl> peter@blade (Peter Korsten) writes:

>The ST performs less than the average Amiga. It has a stupid operating
>system. (What did TOS stand for, anyway?) If they manage to put the
>Falcon on the market, I think it's the last thing Atari will ever do.
>
>They should have sticked with the computer games.
>--
>Peter Korsten, in real life peter@stack.urc.tue.nl


	If I put the following side by side:

	Amiga 1000 in 1985
	Atari 520ST in 1985
	Mac in 1984
	IBM 286 in ?


	I would rank them in that order for potential. The Mac was designed
to be standardized at all costs. The Atari's hisory is inexpensive although
with features that a Mac would lack. The IBM was nothing but text. However,
we all know what they Amiga had when it was introduced.

	I always admired Atari for some things. They had less expensive
systems, they introduced more models at once, and they had a good reputation
among people at that time.


-- 
      //   David Tiberio  SUNY Stony Brook 516-473-5156 AMIGA  DDD-MEN   
     //  bounce-resistant:    dtiberio%libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu@sunysb.edu
   \X/	    Perot for President 1-516-399-2259 Long Island, New York

 	PPPP  EEEEE RRRR   OOO  TTTTT    IIIII N   N      999  2222
	P   P E     R   R O   O   T        I   NN  N     9   9     2
	PPPP  EEEE  RRRR  O   O   T        I   N N N      9999  222
 	P     E     R R   O   O   T        I   N  NN         9 2
 	P     EEEEE R  R   OOO    T      IIIII N   N     9999  22222
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 01:20:33 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.154119.8813@bsu-ucs.uucp> 01ksdavis@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:
>	Don't forget the final cost of anything though.  How does Macintosh or
>IBM software generally compare to Amiga software?  It's been my experience that
>Amiga software is much cheaper, is better quality, and is easier to use.

   Thank you for the amusing posting.  I haven't read anything this funny in,
well, days... (Sorry, but you are competing with Dan Barrett in this area,
and his messages are always a riot).  

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
-----------------------------------------------------
"If you like Congress, you'll **LOVE** Bill Clinton."
                                --new campaign slogan
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mac1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Mubashir Cheema)
Subject: Re: Newspaper article
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 02:13:58 GMT


 and the plea from Commodore, if someone could post that as well.


Mubashir.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: Commodore and the Osborne Syndrome
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:46:46 GMT

lkoop@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU writes:
>gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>>Such products as Emplant, OS/2 2.0, and Windows 3.x are easy to announce
>>early since they are exciting products.  Commodore has not released
>>anything exciting since the A1000, and the rumors of their "new" 8-bit
>>graphics are not promising.  Well, the A3000 was arguably an exciting
>>release with its true 32-bit architecture, but Commodore crippled it with
>>6-bit graphics, lack of RTG, lack of memory protection, lack of...
>
>    I will admit some valid points exist with the above statement, but I do
>wish to voice an argument against memory protection.

Great, I just through in that memory protection issue as one other thing
the other OS's have that AmigaOS lacks.  I am not advocated it.  I would
like to have a virtual memory option integrated into the OS, and RTG/DIG
is a necessity by yesterday's standards.  Commodore has decided to make
the Amiga yesterday's computer, too.

-- Gerald
From: Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amigas are cool
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 11:26:10 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Jul27.162253.22321@ra.msstate.edu>
  <1992Jul27.204442.3673@cheshire.oxy.edu>

>Some other news my hacker friend told me...
>
>Creative Computers is going 100% Mac, and CBM has cut them off...
>
>btw, the wholesale price of the 3000T is $3500... with 1960, et al.
>
>Might help in negotiating a price...
>
>Thom

Okay, let's put a stop to this one right now. I don't know who your
"hacker friend" is Thom, but I just called Mike, the Manager of
Creative Computers' Lawndale CA store... a guy I've known for a number
of years. I put your "rumor" to him and he laffed and said
"that's ridiculous. Commodore wouldn't cut us off, Creative is the
biggest Amiga dealer in the world." They're also an "aggregate"
dealer meaning they sell to other dealers.  Mike further told me
they're preparing a mass mailing to their customer base confirming
their solid commitment to the Amiga. Business has been slow-ish, due
to summer doldrums, and general malaise in the computer industry.
Disgruntled ex-employees of companies often try to damage their
former employers by starting rumors like these, or worse. 

I'm not employed by Creative (although I've done a bit of newsletter
writing and layout for them in the past, on a piece-work basis) and
I don't have any financial stake in their success or failure. 
Yes they've opened a Mac store.. in fact if you're familiar with their
Lawndale location, there was a "closet store" next door to them for
a few years. That store went under, Creative leased the space, knocked
a hole in the wall to join it to their Amiga shop, and that new space
turned into their Mac store. Due to the floorplan, one HAS to go thru
the Amiga side to get into the Mac side. 
They run ads every week in the L.A. Times Sports section (also known
as the Computer Ads section ;-) but only advertise Mac stuff because,
they told me, Apple won't let them co-mingle Amiga stuff with Apple
stuff in the same ad. So go beat on Apple over that aspect.

At any rate, to summarize, per the Manager of Creative Computers'
Lawndale shop this morning, they are fully committed to the Amiga.

Harv
From: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Colors VS. Greys
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:29:41 GMT
Reply-To: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Organization: Commodore Germany

In article <25380006@hpsad.sad.hp.com> kevint@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Kevin Taddeucci) writes:
>     
>     C= uses bright colors for 1.3:                           PEOPLE BITCH!
>     C= uses greys for 2.0:                                   PEOPLE BITCH!
>     C= allows users to set any combination from 4096 colors: PEOPLE BITCH!

Ah, I'm not alone!

Look, back in 1.3 times, when you looked around, *every* other computer
platform (read PCs with EGA) had default blue background, and Amiga had
the same (and each had also white text on this blue). May I admit that
I still find this more ... hmm ... joyful/happy/etc. ?

Yes, grey looks very serious, but...

>     Personally I like the grey scheme, it allows a nice 3D look and is 
>     easy on the eyes. 

Ok, I admit this, you're right.

-- 
Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel  // E-Mail to \\  Only my personal opinions...
Commodore Frankfurt, Germany  \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
				   or  peterk@public.sub.org
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.tech:42 comp.sys.amiga.hardware:13395