From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Pardon Fischer?
Date: 20 Dec 92 10:33:22 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1992Dec20.042307.6788@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, cuffell@spot.Colorado.EDU (CUFFELL TIMOTHY MICH) writes:
> In article <1992Dec19.165648.569@uoft02.utoledo.edu> dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>>In article <DUBACH1.92Dec19015209@husc10.harvard.edu>, dubach1@husc10.harvard.edu (joev dubach) writes:
>>> In article <1992Dec18.132520.549@uoft02.utoledo.edu> dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>>> 
>>>    In article <18654@mindlink.bc.ca>, Bruce_Harper@mindlink.bc.ca (Bruce Harper) writes:
>>>    > Mr. Cosgrove writes (inter alia):
>>>    > 
>>>    > "Sure, he violated a statute which is unjust in itself. That is as insane as
>>>    > Khomeni saying Reshdee violated islamic law by writing his book while in
>>>    > England and placing a bounty on Rishdee's head. When Iran does it, the world
>>>    > laughs because the arabs are too uncivilized to see that their laws do nto
>>>    > extend beyond their borders. When the US does it, you back them 100 percent."
>>>    > 
>>>    > 
>>>    > Apart from the misspellings, Iranians are not Arabs.  But I'm sure we'll have
>>>    > an argument that they are.
>>>    > 
>>>    > But, hey, I'm willing to concede that Mr. Cosgrove's legal expertise is as
>>>    > convincing as his chess expertise and wind up this whole thread.  Then
>>>    > everyone can have a Merry Christmas and wait for the Short-Timman match.
>>>    > 
>>>    > Well, have a Merry Christmas anyway!
>>> 
>>>    Hey Bruce, this is the lamest attempt I have seen in this group to
>>>    weasel out of the issues raised in a post. As you appear unable to
>>>    see the obvious, I'll have to make it plain enough so that Ray Charles
>>>    could see it:
>>> 
>>>    How is the US claim, that it can enact laws which attempt to exercise control
>>>    over people outside of its territories, any different than the Iranian claim
>>>    that it can pass judgment on Salman Rushdie for writing a book while he was in
>>>    Great Britain?
>>> 
>>>    I eagerly await a mature response which addresses these questions...
>>> 
>>>    DMC
>>> 
>>> Bobby Fischer is a U.S. citizen.  He is thus subject to U.S. law.
>>> Salman Rushdie is not an Iranian citizen.
>>> 
>>> Joev
>>
>>So what you are saying is that by being a citizen of the US, you are
>>are basically its property and must abide by its whims even in areas where
>>it has no jurisdiction whatsoever??? You believe that simply by having lived
>>in the US you are subject to ALL of the wishes of a few political leaders
>>even when you leave the borders and fly to another country? 
>>
>>Can you honestly say you believe that the authority of the US government
>>to exercise its powers extends to the entire WORLD??? 
>>
>>If you go to a free park in Holland (Denmark) and smoke pot, should the US
>>have the right to jail you upon your return because you violated its
>>zero-tolerance edict? (Sure, swill the beer in Germany, or Vodka in the UUSR,
>>but no grass in Holland!)
>>
>>If you are in Peru on Vacation, and buy a Havanna cigar and smoke it, should
>>you be jailed for aiding Fidel Castro upon your return?
>>
>>If you are in Australia, where at 16 you are legally allowed to make porn
>>films, and you watch New Wave Hookers on the hotel cable, should you be
>>prosecuted for violating the American child-pornography laws??? (New Wave
>>Hookers had the delicious Ms. Lords in it, when she was 16.)
>>
>>And, if perchance you should happen to be in Bali, and get lucky and screw some
>>wild and willing 17 year old, should you be prosecuted for stutory rape upon
>>your return to the U.S.
>>
>>Lawn Jarts can not be sold in the US anymore. If you buy a set while in
>>England, and give them to a friend, should the US reserve a place in Federal
>>prison for you upon your return?
>>
>>Dude, just because it is on the books does NOT mean it is valid. Wake up and
>>smell the coffee...
>>
>>DMC
>>
> How about giving aid and comfort to the enemy in Saigon, circa '70?

You mean like Jane Fonda? Yeah, she sure got prosecuted.

> 
> How about buy oil froan internationally censured country like Iraq?

Oh, you can buy it, just can't bring it into the US. (Maybe you feel Fischer
is carrying his games with him???)

> 
> Yugosalvian happens to be under UN sanctions.

So? 

> 
> There are case when a nation's jurisdiction extends to citizens beyonits
> borders.

Yes, such as military members, or other high ranking government jobs where
people have agreed, as conditions of employment to be held to higher standards
due to national security reasons...

> 
> between local laws (Age of consent varies from 13 to 18 in the US, by the
> way). 

Fine, you fly back to (pick a state) where the age of consent is 18, should you
be prosecuted then??? HMMM?????
 

	The US is acting in accordance with prevailing international opinion,
> and a mandate from what passes for an international legal body.

Gee, the U.S. has repeatedly ignored the 'World Court' as having any
jursidiction over it as only the U.S. has jurisdiction on U.S. soil. Other
countries do the same. Now it is claiming the the U.S. has the power to control
what goes on in other countries...

So, let me get this straight. No one, not even the U.N. has any kind of
authority over what happens inside the U.S., aside from the U.S.. But, by GOD,
if some U.S. citizen should violate one of OUR edicts in a foreign land,
despite the fact that the foreign country WANTS this done, AND it is something
that the person could do HERE, we're gonna throw his ASS in jail! Make and
EXAMPLE so that the rest of our citizens know who the BOSS IS!

If fisher had played in the U.S., the govenrment would have LOVED it. But, he
chose to use someone else's playgrond and is now  criminal.

You know, when the Soviet Union placed restrictions on where its citizens could
go, we called it cruel and barbaric. We claimed that people have aboslute
freedoms to travel where they please (Cuba for a U.S. citizen was, well,
different...) and seek employment there if they so chose.

Gee, what happend to ou beliefs?

Oh, right. Soviet Union dissolved. Looks like we'll have to pick up the slack
in destruction of personal freedoms...

Looks like YOU will fit in just fine...




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