From: homebrew@lupulus.ssc.gov
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: HOMEBREW Digest #939
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:41:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: ssc.CDf+hxOtC
Organization: The Internet


HOMEBREW Digest #939		             Fri 31 July 1992


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Open mouth, insert foot. (chris campanelli)
  Re: cleaning bruheat boiler (Andy Phillips)
  Reaching 300 ppm Sulfate (Greg_Habel)
  Micro Brewery Sampler, Boston, 5 Aug (Tom Luteran)
  Re: Advanced Brewing (NON-EXTRACT) worth it? (James Dipalma)
  Re: Wyeast Strains (Raymond Taylor) (JLIDDIL)
  Re: sparging and time (Michael J. Gerard)
  Homebrew Digest #938 (July 30, 1992) (fwd) (John Freeman)
  Innovative lauter tuns (Norm Pyle)
  Re: Advanced Brewing (NON-EXTRACT) worth it? (Richard Stueven)
  re: chillers (mcnally)
  Chimay yeast behavior (mcnally)
  Re: sparging and time (Jeff Benjamin)
  Wort Chilling Water Wastage (ALTENBACH)
  Brewing time (was Re: Advanced Brewing (NON-EXTRACT) worth it?) (Douglas
 DeMers)
  Dry Hopping with Hop Plugs (Patrick_Waara.WBST129)
  Canadian vs. U.S. beers (Patrick_Waara.WBST129)
  Re: Advanced Brewing (NON-EXTRACT) worth it? (whg)
  Re:  Lame Comment (David Van Iderstine)
  Re: please resend (P. Couch)
  Re: Saving water with wort chiller (Mark N. Davis)
  Dry hoping, sparging and all grain brewing (BOB JONES)
  10%  (Jack Schmidling)
  Test message ("CMD 2NDLT ALBERT W. TAYLOR ")
  PET Bottles ("CMD 2NDLT ALBERT W. TAYLOR ")
  Mouth Feel (fjdobner)
  Re: Bruheat Cleaning & other (CCASTELL)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 20:40 CDT
From: akcs.chrisc@vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli)
Subject: Open mouth, insert foot.

     Oh my.  After reading my most recent posting, I feel that I may have
been alittle too, shall we say, colorful?  I agree with Mr. Gorman that a
thread should not be drafted when the author is in an agitated state.  I
apologize to anyone who may have taken offense to the strong language.

chris campanelli

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 10:01 GMT
From: Andy Phillips <PHILLIPSA@LARS.AFRC.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: cleaning bruheat boiler

I've had a Bruheat boiler for about ten years, and it's
been getting darker each time I use it. The malt (especially
darker ones) seems to colour the plastic, and won't come out
however hard I try to clean it. I just relax, don't worry
and have a homebrew.

The element is different. Burnt malt on the surface will probably
shorten its life as it will retard heat transfer to the mash. The
answer is to use a grain bag to contain the mash: this suspends the
grains above the heater and you don't get the burnt bits stuck to it.
Cordon Brew sell a bag designed specifically for the Bruheat. One
disadvantage is that there is a "dead space" of about 3 litres below
the bag, which means that you need more liquor to get a resonably
stirrable mash, and consequently have to mash slightly longer - the
thicker the mash, the higher the enzyme concentrations (??). You also have
to make sure that the bag doesn't touch the element, otherwise you'll
be cleaning bits of molten plastic off it and you need a new grain bag
(as I did first time).

With the grain bag, the element does get a bit of dried scum on it, but
I can get mine reasonably clean with an old toothbrush.

Cheers,
Andy


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 07:30:54 edt
From: Greg_Habel@DGC.ceo.dg.com
Subject: Reaching 300 ppm Sulfate


I will be brewing an ordinary Bitter and have read that you should
aim for about 300 ppm sulfate to be true to style (according to
Zymurgy special issue).  Assuming I have 0 ppm sulfate in my water,
how much Burton water salts should I add to obtain 300 ppm sulfate in
5 gallons?  Are there forumlas to obtain the info?  Thanks.
                                 Greg




------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 10:02:51 EDT
From: Tom Luteran <toml@hpwargh.wal.hp.com>
Subject: Micro Brewery Sampler, Boston, 5 Aug


  Hi!

    For those of you who are in the Boston/New England area:

    A local public radio station, WBUR (90.9), is sponsoring
    "A Brewers' Offering"

    Details:

           Date:        20 August 1992, 6-10 pm

           Location:    808 Commonwealth Ave, Boston, MA
           Directions:  Near Boston University (BU) Bridge;
                        T: Green line, BU-Central or BU-West stop.

           Brewers:     approx. 24 microbreweries, approx. 70 beers,
                        quantity limited by MA state laws.  You will
                        get 20 "tickets" for redemption at each brewer's
                        booth for a 2-3 oz. sample (total: approx. 4-5
                        standard bottles).  Additional tickets
                        may be purchased for 5 cents each.
           Snacks:      approx. 21 food vendors, unlimited
           Music:       Live Jazz!
           Gift:        10 oz. Pilsner glass with event logo

           Legalities:  ABSOLUTELY NO ONE UNDER 21 ADMITTED (no kids!!!)

           Cost:        $30.00, to benefit WBUR
           Payment:     Mastercard, Visa, or Check
                        A confirmation letter will be sent out, you pick
                        up the tickets at the door)
                        TICKETS WILL NOT BE ON SALE AT THE DOOR!!!

                          WBUR
                          630 Commonwealth Avenue
                          Boston, MA  02215

                          (617) 353-3800

  Hope to see you all there!

  Tom

+----------------------------------------------------+
| Thomas Luteran           | INTERNET address:       |
| Hewlett-Packard Company  | toml@wal.hp.com         |
| Medical Products Group   | HP TELNET: 1-290-3021   |
| 175 Wyman Street         | VOICE: (617) 290-3021   |
| Waltham, MA. 02254-9030  | FAX: (617) 890-5451     |
+----------------------------------------------------+

+ Opinions presented above are my own & not necessarily those of my employer +


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 10:38:09 EDT
From: dipalma@banshee.sw.stratus.com (James Dipalma)
Subject: Re: Advanced Brewing (NON-EXTRACT) worth it?




	Hi all,

	In HBD #937, Walter Gude (whg@tellabs.com) writes:

> As of yet I'm still doing partial (1/3 of
> sugars) mashes. I wouldn't be at all surprised if when I take the final
> plunge (next fall?) that initially the quality of my brews goes down.


> Given the same process from the point of the boil on, I've always felt
> there are a lot of things you can screw up in the mash/sparge process
> (bad crush, poor temp control, oversparging) that could potentially give
> you a sorry wort. [...]
> There's a lot of variable to get right.

	While there's a great deal of truth to that, no one who is considering
	moving to all-grain brewing should be intimidated by it.  There is some
	additional knowledge involved in all-grain brewing, some new techniques
	to be mastered.  However, it is not all that difficult, especially if
	a brewer is already doing partial mashes with significant amounts of
	grain.  In your case Walter, where you are mashing grain for 1/3 of
	the fermentables in your brew, you are already closer to all-grain
	brewing than you believe.

	Before I "took the plunge", I took advantage of the tremendous wealth
	of information on mashing and sparging provided by our fellow HBDers.
	Another good source of information is Greg Noonan's book "Brewing
	Lager Beer", which contains detailed, easily understandable
	descriptions of the mashing and sparging processes (usual disclaimer
	regarding lack of commercial interest applies).  I would encourage any
	brewer considering moving to all grain brewing to *educate* themselves
	first, poke through the HBD archives, read some of the literature.
	All-grain brewing is MUCH EASIER than many people believe.

	In my own case, I brewed my first all grain batch several months ago
	after 60-70 extract and partial mash batches.  It was, IMHO, the best
	beer I ever made.  Each of the subsequent six batches has been an
	improvement over the last.


                              There's no turning back now,
                                    Jim


------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jul 1992 8:11:10 -0700 (MST)
From: JLIDDIL@AZCC.Arizona.EDU
Subject: Re: Wyeast Strains (Raymond Taylor)


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 10:13:49 CDT
From: Michael J. Gerard <mjgerard@eng.auburn.edu>
Subject: Re: sparging and time
Full-Name: Michael J. Gerard

The last time I sparged it took around 1.5-2 hours...

I think a lot of it has to do with how dense your filter bed is.
I have played with the idea of moving the grain bag slightly.
This would speed up the flow; I'm not sure what it would do to the sparge.
I think it would speed things up.  I used to spage without a lauder tun
(just a bag and a collecter).  I got good extracts percentage wise in 15-20
minutes but being scaled by 170 F water wasn't worth it.  It's easier to
sit and have a homebrew and watch the future homebrew trcikle away.

I plan to try moving the sparge bag SLIGHTLY next time.  I'll use an old
recipe and see if I can speed up the flow but still get a high extract
percentage.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 10:51:37 CDT
From: jlf@palm.cray.com (John Freeman)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #938 (July 30, 1992) (fwd)

> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 15:35:05 PDT
> From: kjohnson@argon.berkeley.edu (Ken Johnson)
> Subject: Re: Advanced Brewing (NON-EXTRACT) worth it?
>
> If your beer quality goes down when switching to full mash beers, then you
> are lame.
>
> kj

Then consider me lame.  When I first started mashing, before I got some
of the right equipment and technique, my beer was not an improvement
over extract brewing.  I had problems crushing malt, problems mashing,
problems with sparging, problems with balancing hops, problems with
yeast.  It's a wonder I kept at it.

Now, mashing seems easy.  I've got better equipment - a Corona mill, a
five gallon stainless steel pot, a wort chiller, a large burner, nested
plastic sparge buckets (I call the Tower of Power).  And I've done it
off and on for nine years so I know which parts to worry about and
which not to.  I do a single temp infusion mash in a styrofoam cooler,
I don't mashout, I don't recirculate sparge, I don't siphon off cold
break.  It takes me about four hours to make beer.  As blasphemous as
it sounds, there is more to life than making beer, and if it took me
all day like some, I wouldn't do it.

So, if someone is happy making extract beers, I don't see any problem
with that.  I'm not going to insist they make the investment in time
and equipment to do full mash beers.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 07:55:39 MDT
From: pyle@intellistor.com (Norm Pyle)
Subject: Innovative lauter tuns

Chris Karras (RKarras@PennSAS.UPenn.edu) writes:

>I have been using the 5 gallon cylindrical Gott/Rubbermaid orange cooler as a
>lautertun with apparent good results. Rather than use the slotted copper
>tubing or window screen over a pipe to filter the wort from the grain, I have
>been setting a stainless steel steamer (one of those odd kitchen items that
>looks like a flower with petals that unfold to double the diameter and that
>has little 1/2" legs). It is just the right size to fit in the bottom of the
>cooler and when the grain is in a mesh nylon grain bag sitting on top of the
>steamer I suspect that I get a better filtering action than with the slotted
>tubes and with much less work/expense.
>
>Has anyone else tried this, and with what effect?

I use this very same apparatus (the steamer) in a large bucket as my lauter
tun.  (high quality ascii graphics below)  It expands to exactly the right
diameter.  I haven't used it in conjunction with the grain bag yet (I just
bought my grain bag), but it seems to do the trick quite nicely as far as
holding the grain above the bottom.  The filtering action is fine.  The only
problem I've had is pouring ten pounds of grain from my mash tun (Bruheat)
into this contraption without knocking the steamer crooked.  This has
resulted in a few pieces of grain coming through my outlet hose but never
anything worse.


\           bucket/
 |               |
 |               |
 |^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|
 |               |
 | grain bed     |
 |               |
 |               |
 |   steamer     |
 |---------------|
 | |           | + outlet hole with hose attached
 |_|___________|_|

This is not earth shattering, but it does show that you don't have to go nuts
buying expensive equipment to do full mashes.

Now that I have a grain bag, I'd like to hear from others who've used it to
mash and sparge straight out of a Bruheat or similar gadget.  Problems?  What
grain/water ratios do you use (this seems to be a bone of contention between
Bruheat and Dave Line)?  The reason I'd like to do this is to avoid having to
dump all that hot grain into a separate lauter tun.  Comments and ideas to
streamline the process are welcome.

Norm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 09:07:55 PDT
From: gak@wrs.com (Richard Stueven)
Subject: Re: Advanced Brewing (NON-EXTRACT) worth it?

In HBD #938, I omitted the footnote to:

> All you need are a
> couple of extra plastic buckets*

* I use the "two-buckets-with-a-bunch-of-holes-in-the-bottom-of-one"
  lauter tun design...there are many others that work as well or better.

gak
107/H/3&4


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 09:22:35 -0700
From: mcnally@wsl.dec.com
Subject: re: chillers


I may be strange, but I really enjoy the wort chiller debate.

I need to understand how the "immersion chiller as makeshift
flow-through chiller" actually works.  I like to get my beer
down to about 50 degrees (F) as quickly as possible.  To do
this, my calculations show that do drop my just-after-boiling
five gallons of wort down to fifty degrees, I need to "mix" it
with at least 42 gallons of ice water:

    Vc = (VbTb - VbTt) / (Tt - Tc)

where Vc = chilled water volume, Vb is wort volume, Tc is chilled
water temperature, Tb is wort temperature, and Tt is target
temperature.  Now, I don't have a 42 gallon bucket, and I don't
know many people who do, so I just don't see how I could possibly
use this setup to chill my wort.  Now, if you're happy with chilling
down to 80 degrees, you can do that with much less chilled water
(about 12 gallons at 32 degrees).  I don't have a refrigerator, so
all my chilling has to be done with the chiller.

For some time I've been using a sump pump to circulate water from a
bucket of ice water through the chiller.  I don't use much water this
way, and I get the wort cold in about 45 minutes.  Of course, I have
to keep refreshing the ice in the bucket, and I find that about 4
7 pound bags from 7-11 do the trick.  (When I'm not lazy I freeze the
ice myself, but I'm usually lazy.)

What temperatures do people normally shoot for when chilling?

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Mike McNally                                           mcnally@wsl.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation
Western Software Lab

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 09:25:12 -0700
From: mcnally@wsl.dec.com
Subject: Chimay yeast behavior


My experience with Chimay yeast is that it benefits from being roused.
I swirl my fermentor every day.

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Mike McNally                                           mcnally@wsl.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation
Western Software Lab

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 11:02:20 MDT
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji@hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Re: sparging and time

> My question for sparge adepts out there is this:  Two hours!?
> It takes me no longer than 20 to 30 minutes to sparge 7 gallons of water
> at 170 F through 7 lbs of grain.

My question is this:  7 gallons!?  That seems like an awful lot of water
to sparge with for 7 gallons (on the order of 2x what it should be).  My
usual ration is one-half the number of gallons as you had pounds of
grain (e.g., 4.5 gallons for 9 lbs of malt).  What kind of gravity do
you get out of the tap by the end?  If the outflow isn't sweet any more,
I stop sparging.

But I agree, two hours is an awful long time to sparge.  You can extend
your sparge time significantly by doing a lot of recycling, but I've
found the biggest factor to be the grind of the grain.  My sparges were
always sticking when I used the old coffee grinder at the local brew
shop.  Now that I have my Marcato mill, the sparge water drains through
as fast as I can pour it.  Sparge times are now down to 15-20 minutes.

> Currently my best time from starting the mash to pitching the yeast is
> about ten hours.

Now that seems a little long.  I have certainly done batches that took
that long, but my basic procedure is now to about 6 hours (I can
*almost* do one in the evening after work :-).  Let's look at an
idealized schedule:

	hours	step
	-----	----
(opt)	 .75	grind grain (can be done day before)
	1.5	mash (step: 30m @ 122F, 50m @ 150F, 10m @ 170F)
	 .5	sparge
	 .5	wait for wort to come to boil :-(
	1.5	boil & hopping
	 .5	cooling (immersion or counterflow chiller)
(opt)	1.0	aquarium-pump aeration
	-----
	6.25	total time

Even if you add "slop" time beyond the ideal schedule, it's still well
below 10 hours.  Eliminate grain-grinding and use splash aeration, and
you're down below 5 hours!

The key is to use "dead" time during the mash, boil, and cooling stages
to clean up, heat your sparge water, etc.  About halfway through the
mash, I start my sparge water heating and sanitize sparging implements
so that as soon as the mash is done I'm ready to go.  During the boil, I
sanitize my fermenter, clean up my mash and sparge stuff, prepare the
chiller and such.  Heck, I sometimes even vacuum the living room or mow
the lawn during a brew session.  And there's certainly time in there to
drink a homebrew or two.

- --
Jeff Benjamin                               benji@hpfcla.fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co.                         Fort Collins, Colorado
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
					    - T.S. Eliot

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 10:11 PDT
From: ALTENBACH@CHERRY.llnl.gov
Subject: Wort Chilling Water Wastage

In HBD938 Tom Feller was concerned about wasting water during wort chilling.
There is no need to waste any water while chilling your wort if you save the
cooling water and recycle it for other uses. I use a counterflow chiller and
collect 30 gallons of cooling water from a 10-gal batch, saving it in 5-gallon
plastic water carboys. Then I use that water during the week for soaking
fermenters, landscape watering, spa makeup, and other household chores. None
is wasted. I also keep some filled carboys around as an earthquake
emergency supply (recommended for CA brewers) in case my homebrew bottles
are broken and I run out of beer. So chill out your wort with all the water
you want, then recycle and relax.
                                   Tom Altenbach

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 10:24 PDT
From: dougd@uts.amdahl.com (Douglas DeMers)
Subject: Brewing time (was Re: Advanced Brewing (NON-EXTRACT) worth it?)

In HBD #938, gak@wrs.com (Richard Stueven) writes:
[...]
>You and many others refer to the mashing process as "Advanced
>Brewing".  In my opinion, that perpetuates the myth that mashing is an
>arcane and difficult process that novice brewers can't possibly do
>right.  That's simply not true...ANYBODY can do it!  All you need are a
>couple of extra plastic buckets* and maybe another 1.5 to 2 hours of
>brewing time, and you're set.

Having recently started all-grain mashing, thanks to the encouragement
and help of members of this esteemed forum (special thanks to Martin
Lodahl!) and The Draught Board (brewclub), I agree with all of what you
say _except_ the time involved for all-grain.  There are many, many
factors which will affect the amount of additional time for all-grain
brewing, so to state categorically that "only" another 2 hours time is
required is unfair.  A more accurate statement (IMO) would be that _at
least_ 1.5 hours more of brewing time is required.  Typical all-grain
brewing from start to pitch for me has averaged around 6-7 hours.

True, experience shows certain shortcuts and the things which can be
done in parallel once the methodology and the process are understood.
I'm still learning, too, with many great beers yet to be brewed and for
me they'll be all-grain.  To me, all-grain brewing is worth the
additional time and trouble, but I'm always looking for ways to
decrease the time involved while increasing the quality of my beers.

The additional time required for all-grain brewing can be greatly
affected by the mashing technique (is it infusion? step? or decoction
mash?), the beer style (for example, a wheat beer will require a
protein rest which is additional time), and the equipment the brewer
has at his/her disposal.  (For example, my "cajun cooker" can bring 5
gallons of sparge water to temperature in under five minutes!)  A
discussion concerning sparge time is already in progress elsewhere in
this forum, and it certainly appears that sparge time varies wildly
from brewer to brewer.  As a personal aside, my time is more valuable
than obtaining the maximum theoretical extract percentage, so I'd opt
for using more malt rather than a 2 hour sparge!  However, at the
suggestion of Russ Wigglesworth (thanks, Russ!) I increased my sparge
time from 20 to 40 minutes and was pleased with the results.

Folks considering all-grain should definitely read _The Complete
Handbook of Homebrewing_ (David Miller, 1988, Garden Way Publishing,
Pownall Vermont, 248 pages) or _The Complete Joy of Home Brewing_,
(Second Edition) by Charlie Papazian.

Also, one of the _zymurgy_ special issues (probably the All-Grain
Issue) has a "staggered brewing" article which I recall has some other
time-saving hints.

Here's my thumbnail time budget at the front-end of all-grain brewing,
with things which can be done in parallel indented.  Note also that in
all-grain brewing, the boil time is often 90 or even 120 minutes.  A
maximum of 60 minute boil is highly recommended for extract brews, to
keep carmelization to a minimum.

  crack grain             10-20 minutes   (0 - buy pre-cracked)
  heat mash-in water      1-20 minutes (depends on equipment!)
mash-in                   3+ minutes (check/adjust Ph, etc.)
protein rest              45 min. (depends on brew, most not needed.)
raise to conversion temp. 5-15 minutes
  starch conversion       20-120 minutes.
  heat sparge water       5-30 minutes.
mash-out                  5-15 minutes
  sparge                  20-120 minutes  (sparge into the boiler)
  begin boil       [... here we join the extract-only brewers ...]

Quickest time would be to use pre-cracked grains in a single
temperature infusion mash with a quick (20 minute) sparge.  With my
equipment, that would probably be around 1.5 hours additional.

I'd recommend an all-grain-wannabe brewer get Miller's book (above) and
try a partial mash or two, just to get the feel for the process.  Then,
if it feel right, jump right in!  If not, don't feel bad.  Remember
that award-winning beers are brewed from all-grain, partial-mash, _and_
extract recipes.  The important thing is to just brew it!

------------------------------

Date: 	Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:19:12 PDT
From: Patrick_Waara.WBST129@xerox.com
Subject: Dry Hopping with Hop Plugs

I have a question regarding dry hopping with hop plugs.  It seems the hop plugs
are just a little too large to easily fit through the mouth of the carboy.  In
the past I have attempted to break the plug in two by working it back and forth
in my hands, which is no easy task (and probably an infection risk).  A knife
did not seem to work too well either.  Does anyone have any suggestions as to
how to get the hop plug easily into the carboy?  Thanks.

~Pat

------------------------------

Date: 	Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:22:10 PDT
From: Patrick_Waara.WBST129@xerox.com
Subject: Canadian vs. U.S. beers

This has been dicussed before, but I'm afraid I don't remember the details or
whether it was definitively answer.  Is the beer imported from Candada into the
U.S. the same exact beer that is brewed in Canada for Canadian consumption.  In
particular, is the alcohol level the same.  Does the answer vary depending on
the brewery?  If so, use Molson as an example.  Thanks.

~Pat

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 11:38:09 CDT
From: whg@tellabs.com
Subject: Re: Advanced Brewing (NON-EXTRACT) worth it?



I post the other day about my concerns in switching to all grain process. As I
stated then, I've no doubt that I will eventually make much better beer
doing a full mash then using strait extracts.  However recieving replies
like:

> If your beer quality goes down when switching to full mash beers, then you
> are lame.

cause a f**k you kneejerk reaction. Somehow I thought this was a forum for
discussion and exchange of ideas.  I guess I was wrong.

The point of my post was that I have been steadily progressing from all extract,
to extract+specialty, to partial mash, and will probably "cross the line" soon.
Each step (18 batches) I changed one thing at a time and have been able to keep
a handle on what was good and what was not.  All I'm trying to say is that maybe
there is something to be said for getting the "boil forward" part of the process
down before jumping in all the way.  That my learning to crawl before you run
might end of benefitting you in the long run.  But then maybe I'm just lame :-).


Walter Gude    ||   whg@tellabs.com


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 15:42:40 EDT
From: localhost!davevi@uunet.UU.NET (David Van Iderstine)
Subject: Re:  Lame Comment

Once again, someone on the net (in this case Ken Johnson) has proven that
being able to type has little to do with being able to think.



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 13:47:02 PDT
From: ithaca!amber!phoebe@uunet.UU.NET (P. Couch)
Subject: Re: please resend

Someone stole my printout of the ST STAN brewing contest info! And I didn't
save the mail mesg, could some kind soul please send me a copy! I will give
you some beer! :)

P.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 14:43:00 PDT
From: Mark N. Davis <mndavis@pbhya.PacBell.COM>
Subject: Re: Saving water with wort chiller

 ...deleted talk about wort chillers wasting water
>
> Does anyone use this method? Does anyone have any ideas on how to make it flow
> better? Any better ideas on how the cool wort with the least amount of wasted
> water?
>

I too use an immersion chiller, running cold tap water through copper coils
immersed inside a bucket of hot wort. In addition, I live in the SF bay area,
where water rationing has become a way of life (you easterners don't know
how much you can take tap water for granted). To do my part, I no longer
wash my car, I take shorter showers, and I've trained my blatter to hold its
contents longer, for fewer flushings - except during homebrew quaffing >:-).
But I'm talking brewing here. My solution for conserving water, while also
cooling my wort rapidly, is to do the whole cooling process on the front
lawn/desert. This is the only time that it gets watered at all (besides the
semi-annual rainfall) so I don't at all feel guilty about letting the water
run for 15-20 minutes. Look at it this way:
  If you don't force cool the wort and get an infected batch, then it goes
  down the drain anyhow, and you've wasted at least 5-7 gallons right there!

In case anyone was wondering, aren't you afraid of having hot wort sitting
out there in the great outdoors, with all those wild and crazy yeasties
dancing in the air? My solution is to dump my brew kettle's contents into
a 6 gallon plastic fermenter bucket, drop in the immersion chiller, and then
to seal the lid on over the top, leaving only tiny cracks where the chiller's
I/O tubes stick through. The plastic tops for these buckets are rather flexible
making this an easy task. I also leave my wooden spoon and thermometer sealed
inside, so that I don't have to sanitize them each time I want to stir and
check the temp.

What, there's no water for the Californian's to drink? Let them drink homebrew!
                                 Mark


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 08:10 PDT
From: BOB JONES <BJONES@NOVAX.llnl.gov>
Subject: Dry hoping, sparging and all grain brewing


That I'd add another data point of a few recent topics. I tried dry hoping
once with a couple of PVC pipes that had a lot of small holes drilled in
them and plugs on each end. I filled the pipes with fresh flower hops and
placed them in the carboy, hanging on a string. The pipes didn't sink well
so next time I added a brass ball at the bottom of the tube to help it sink.
Easy in, easy out. The results were less than perfect. My conclusion was that
the hops really need to be LOOSE in the wort for best results. The operation
was a success, the patient died. On the subject of sparging, I usually try to
push my sparge time to 20-30 min. I have a pump on the output of the mash tun
and I have to valve it down to restrict the flow. I don't personally believe
that long sparges vs short sparges really makes a lot of difference in the
resultant gravity or quality of the runoff. I believe there is a big difference
in the grains we all get and the gravity per pound per gallon varies all over
the map. I recently tried an experiment to prove this, but it didn't work so
well. My start to finish times for grain brewing 10 gallon batchs is typically
4 1/2 hours. That includes setup, brewing and cleanup. I can't beleive someone
would spent 10-12 hours brewing and continue to brew for very long. You
marathon brewers out there need to do a little time and motion study and invest
in some hardware to shorten your brew day.

Bob Jones



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 08:52 CDT
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: 10%


 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling

 >FM (Russ Gelinas)
 > So when Jack talks of his WGB I always take it to be tongue-in-cheek and
 self-deprecating. If I've read Jack correctly over the past few months, I
 don't doubt he enjoys jabbing with his WGB comments because he knows how much
 it aggravates some of you!

 Thank your for pointing out the obvious to that 10% that just never seems to
 get it:)  God I hate putting those stupid smilies in but maybe that is all
 they understand.   However, I will not do it again.  You just have to turn up
 the sense of humor gain.

 >From: bob@rsi.com (Bob Gorman)
 >So, I'd like to apologize, first to Jack.

 I accept, just keep that gain turned up.

 >From: homebrew@tso.uc.EDU (Ed Westemeier)
 >Subject: Lauter tuns & hop drying

 >For the past year, I've been using a variation of the Phil's Sparging
 System, by Listermann Mfg. Co.  They advertise in _Zymurgy_ and the
 products (like Phil's Philler) are available in many homebrew retail
 outlets.

 >Besides the basic system using two plastic buckets, assorted
 tubing and fittings, sparging sprinkler and perforated plastic plate,

 As a reluctant critic of someone else's pride and joy, I refrained from
 asking Phill an obvious question when he demonstrated his Sparging System to
 me in Milwaukee.  However, I am less reluctant about posing the question to
 the readers of the Digest.

 It is generally agreed that the most efficient method of sparging is to
 maintain a cover of water over the grain on the order of a half inch or more.
 For those not familiar with Phil's system, it has a rotating sprinkler gadget
 that causes the wort to fall on the mash in a circular pattern.  If a layer
 of water is maintained above the grain, this whole contraption serves no
 purpose whatsoever.  Pouring the water into a shallow bowl nestled in the
 grain and just below the water level, is just as effective in distributing
 the water in addition to being free.

 What am I missing?


js

------------------------------

Date: 30 Jul 92 19:13:00 EST
From: "CMD 2NDLT ALBERT W. TAYLOR " <S94TAYLOR@usuhsb.ucc.usuhs.nnmc.navy.mil>
Subject: Test message

Please ignore this message and have another homebrew-Al Taylor


------------------------------

Date: 26 Jul 92 10:16:00 EST
From: "CMD 2NDLT ALBERT W. TAYLOR " <S94TAYLOR@usuhsb.ucc.usuhs.nnmc.navy.mil>
Subject: PET Bottles

>From what I understand, the "run-of-the-mill" plastic soda bottles ARE made
of PET.  These bottles can be reused without incident, speaking from
experience.  I even used the old caps.  One distinct advantage I can see it
that the plastic doesn't seem to absorb odors much.  Another is that you
can continually monitor carbonation levels, just be giving the bottles a
squeeze.  No problem with the reused caps withstanding the pressure, I have
found.  The bottles themselves can withstand pressures in excess of 120 PSI.

To collect the bottles, I posted a contest on my system's bulletin board
offering full bottle of homebrew from the current batch to the person
donating the most bottles.  Such an approach also serves to get people to
pay attention to recycling the bottles.  That's what I did with the leftovers.
Give it a try!
Al Taylor, MS-III
Uniformed Services University, School of Medicine, Bethesda, MD


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 21:54 CDT
From: fjdobner@ihlpb.att.com
Subject: Mouth Feel


Beer Evaluators,

I read the article from the Summer isue of Zymurgy by Michael Tierney
on carbonation in beer titled "From Carboy to Beer Glass: A Note on
Froth." A very interesting article that I am sure to read many more
times. One fact he mentions in his article is that mouth feel is
the word that professionals give to a properly carbontated beer that
tingles on the tongue a little. My interpretation of mouth feel up
to this point was more a measure of body.  My question is: does
mouth feel refer only to carbonation and its sensation?

Frank Dobner

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 16:38
From: sherpa2!CCASTELL.ELDEC%mailsrv2@sunup.West.Sun.COM (CCASTELL)
Subject: Re: Bruheat Cleaning & other

Brett asked how to clean a Bruheat heating element.  First off, its
a lot easier to clean if you remove the element from the "kettle".
Brillo does a fair job, but the best thing I've found is the copper
pot scrubbers available at most supermarkets.  If you clean it up
after every use with the pot scrubber, it shouldn't take more than
30 seconds or so (brillo used to take me 5-10 minutes!).

Be careful when you remove the heating element not to damage the
rubber (?) washer.  You'll have to remove the washer to clean the
element, but I've had a good deal of trouble with that.  Experience
has shown my washers only have a lifetime of 10 batches or so.  Of
course the local homebrew store doesn't carry spares (even though they
sell the bruheat), and plumbing places have not been helpful.  You don't
really need the washer to create a good seal.  It IS important as an
insulator for the thermostat.  When I tried not using a washer, I
couldn't get the darn thing to boil!  (Now I'm using a homemade cardboard
washer and am having no problems at all!)

Someone wrote an article in Zymurgy a few years back about the care and
feeding of the Bruheat.  He always started each batch by boiling a
bleach solution, then running that through his wort chiller.  I never
saw the need to be overly concerned about sanitizing something I'm
going to be boiling in, so I don't boil bleach in the kettle.  (Of
course the wort chiller should be sanitized as best as possible.)

Ken Johnson writes:

>  If your beer quality goes down when switching to full mash beers, then
you
>  are lame.

I think that might be a little harsh.  There are several variables to
be concerned with when you make the step to all-grain brewing that
aren't a concern to extract (and partial mash) brewers.

First, your equipment.  If you're brewing on the stove, and you have
an electric stove, its a lot of work to keep the proper temperatures.
(See the Zymurgy special issue on all-grain brewing.  Ekhart shows
a log where he's having to change his settings every minute or so.
Hardly my idea of relaxing and having a homebrew.)

Another important consideration is your water.  Sure, there is
information available on how to properly prepare your mash water,
but it is something an extract brewer hasn't been concerned about.

Then, of course, there's the time element.  When doing an extract
brew (or all-grain when you get to the boil), you can pretty much
ignore what's going on and attend to other pressing needs (having
a homebrew, changing diapers, or whatever).  When making an all-grain
batch, you're committed to a longer time period, and since temperature
is pretty critical, it demands more of your attention.  That's fine
if you have the time.

Unless you've read a bunch about all-grain brewing, or helped
somebody else do it, I think it is very possible that you might
have a slight degradation in quality for your first few batches
as you come up the learning curve.  For a professional brewer to
experience these problems, I think maybe the term "lame" applies,
but for the casual homebrewer, I don't think I'd consider someone
"lame" just for experiencing a learning curve.

(There seems to be a presumption that there are no beer styles
that are adequately represented by extracts.  Granted, you can
produce an infinite variety of styles if you use all-grain, but
I dare say there are some styles that can be done quite well
using extracts, possibly with specialty grains or partial mashes.
If this were not the case, there would be NO medal winners using
extracts.  Probably the majority of the medals are won by
all-grain, but the fact that some folks are still placing with
extracts would lead me to believe that you can still brew some
fine beers from cans/powders.)




------------------------------


End of HOMEBREW Digest #939, 07/31/92
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Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing