HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: swords
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:40:31 GMT

Carolus makes two comments...
  I have found it interesting that people who have advised us to
  "avoid risky sites" have all been easterners. 
and
  Can anyone with experience in site security post stories
  of the "I remember when" form? I'd like to hear about
  *any* problems, how they were overcome, and what you might
  do today...

Well, I wasn't there, and I don't do site security, and I don't
remember the story too well... so I'll summarize the parts I
do remember.

Here, in the flower of the East Kingdom, Carolingia, about 20 years
ago, there was a fighter practice held in Dorchester (despite the
Buttery being there, not always a wonderful neighborhood).

There was some sort of confrontation and shouting match that
developed between the attendees, and some local thugs, one of
whom shouted at a very semitic individual "We don't want Kikes
in our neighborhood.  Don Fernando Salazar y Perez, Count,
took off his helm, and yelled "How do you feel about spicks?"

When the local went into his house, everybody split.  Fernando
had to be explained to later, that the guy almost certainly went
into the house to get some heat, not to drink a soda.  It's
epsiodes like this that made me as cautious as I was.

I dimly think I recall that Steffan of Silverwing might have
been one of the gentles there.  It's a hell of story when told
properly, perhaps I can draw him out (if I'm right).

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: vader@meryl.csd.uu.se ("]ke Eldberg")
Subject: Nature of the SCA
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 00:01:09 GMT

William de Corbie is still here.

Lonnie D. Harvel writes:

>Given these concepts, the SCA can be considered a
>medievalist group in their study, and a fantasy group
>in their application. The SCA should strive harder to
>point out the differences in what they do, and
>what happened in period.  

Like mundane society: it is humanist in its study, and
materialist in its application. What you are describing
is a group that has failed in being what it wants to be,
and tries to hide this by pretending to be something else.

Or a group where the leadership has one idea about what the
group should do, but the members keep doing something else
and nobody can think of a way to stop them.

Or a group that is slightly ashamed of what it really does,
and pretends that they are doing something else -- and keeps
a few guys around to do that, to keep up the pretenses...
 
( I am really nasty today, aren't I )

William
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: dburgdor@cwis.unomaha.edu (Darryl Burgdorf)
Subject: Re: "period" wristwatches
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:49:25 GMT


Greetings!

As to the question of watches, I've always found the simplest solution to be
the best.  I keep my watch in my belt pouch, along with my wallet and car keys
(and extra pair of glasses if I brought both regular & sunglasses). 

Okay, okay.  That's the SECOND simplest solution.  The simplest is not to
bring the watch at all, but I've never been able to relax THAT much about the
time.  

	Ld Elwyn of Thornbury

 ------------------------------------------------
| dburgdor @unmcvm.unmc.edu or @cwis.unomaha.edu |
 ------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Fealty to a kingdom
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 16:50:27 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!  Tony Jordan asked:

> As a participant in the SCA, what are my obligations to a Kingdom?
> Please take into account that my character is of free peasant stock and a
> professional soldier/ mercenary.  I am specifically interested in
> obligations that are "rules of the society" I.E. According to the BoD,
> you must do.....  

If you attend any event or meeting, you are obliged to follow the laws of
the Society and the kingdom in which the event is taking place.  That has
nothing to do with where you live: Everyone has that obligation.  Corpora
does not require you to show any loyalty to your kingdom of residence (or
to any kingdom at all).  

> How much authority do kingdoms have in establishing their own
> regulations?

Kingdoms have great latitude in making laws.  Their laws cannot contradict
or repeal rules in Corpora or corporate policy, but they can be more strict
than corporate rules or make new rules.  Taking the context of your first
posting: Could a kingdom require all its residents to fight for it at any
inter-kingdom war?  I dunno.  That possiblity is the sort of thing that
makes me think that the Board ought to adopt a "Bill of Rights", which
limits the power of all levels of authority in the Society to guarantee a
minimum level of personal choice.

> Could a kingdom, at the direction of the king, withdraw the fighting
> authorization from certain members in order to enforce the will of the
> crown?

I am certain that the corporate Earl Marshal would not permit this.  The
King could do it, but complaints to the corporate officers would result in
the action being invalidated.  

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Patent of Arms / Order of Precedence question
Date: 9 Nov 1992 22:18:32 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Hallo!

With regards to Awards, Grants, and Patents of Arms:  Personally, I'd
rather we eliminate the distinction altogether.  I don't remember when
or why they were seperated out (I have heard the story from a couple of
the more senior heralds), but it's a pure SCA invention.

The wording on the English documents is something like the person is
"Awarded a Grant of Arms by Letters Patent".

The medievals didn't make a distinction; neither should we.

Mikjal Annarbjorn
-- 
Michael A. Chance          St. Louis, Missouri, USA    "At play in the fields
Work: mc3078@sw1sta.sbc.com                             of St. Vidicon"
Play: bq434@cleveland.freenet.edu
      mchance@nyx.cs.du.edu
From: sinister@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: I am still bewildered
Date: 9 Nov 92 11:23:01 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Nov8.051216.26641@newsroom.utas.edu.au>, Tim.ONeill@english.utas.edu.au (Tim O'Neill) writes:
> .....And do you think that William is
> right about there being very little 'peer pressure' to be accurate?
> Just curious,
> 
> Tim O'Neill
> Tasmanian Devil
==============================================================================

	Unto the wise and courteous gentles that read these words does
Cosmano send greetings!

	One of the things I like about the Society is the lack of "Peer Pressure"
to be BSC accurate.  When I joined, I went to my first event in a T-Tunic 
made right out of the Known-Worlde Handboke, with a borrowed cloak of a friend's
Lord and borrowed service out of Gold-Key.  I had a vague idea that I wanted to
be Itallian Ren, but there was also my love of Crusader/Richard the Lionheart 
England, and a real urge to be a Norman.
	Incidentally, I knew very little about the "authentic" customs and
clothes of these periods.
	So little, in fact, I doubt I could have attended my first event.  
Particularly a Royal Progress, which is what this was.  Is this really a
good idea, then?

	Now, however, I find that I enjoy being more "period"...  research,
when I can do it, always turns up "niffty-bits" which are either fun for
the sake of knowing, or actually serve a usable/practical purpose.  Still,
I know a few gentles who as close to "authentic" as they every will be
in their "middle-SCA" T-tunics and trews; it isn't half as jarring in itself
as the persons who occasionally comment to me "That stuff isn't Period, is
it?"
	No, perhaps not, but niether is asking THAT question.

	Just my thoughts.

	In Faith and Service,
			Cosmano 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Subject: Re: visible inauthenticity of archery
Reply-To: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 17:52:59 GMT

Greetings to the good folk of the Rialto from Balderik.

..<Graydon posts some thoughts on archery authenticity
   and proposes a test>...

Graydon, in order to make your test fair, might I suggest
that rather than place the helm over a rigid post as you
propose, you put something like a sandbag in it and place
it *on top of* the post, so that it is free to move.
I suggest this since a helm on a warrior's head is not
fixed in space, and will move when struck by sword or
arrow, making penetration (perhaps only slightly) more
difficult.  Also, using an SCA helm would be of dubious
validity unless it was made with the specific intention
of approximating a period helm both structurally and
metallurgically (which is not done typically).
Period helms might either be easier,
or more difficult to pierce than the average SCA
helm. Specifically, SCA helms tend to be made of heavier
gauge steel than their period counterparts, and are
almost universally of mild steel (sometimes stainless).
The period helms might have been lighter, but the
steel could be of higher carbon content (perhaps only
in late period).  Even helms made originally of wrought
iron could be case hardened.  Some high quality 16th
century armours have surface hardnesses of the same order
as water quenched medium carbon steel (ref. 'Munitions
Armour of the Early Sixteenth Century', Michael Lacy,
Lorica, No.3, Summer 1992, pp.5-6). 

Cheers,
Balderik
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: Fri,  6 Nov 1992 12:01:28 -0500 
From: David Schroeder <ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Fwd: Interkingdom Calibration

Morgan replies to Bertram...

---------- Forwarded message begins here ----------

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 16:40:49 +0100
From: Mats Broman <mabr@sweden.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Interkingdom Calibration
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

	I cannot write directly to the Rialto, so I'll answer you directly.
	You may of course forward this if you like.

	I have grown up (SCA-vise) in Drachenwald. Here we get a mixture of
	fighters from different places in the Known World. My experience is
	that there is quite a difference between different Kingdoms, but the
	biggest difference is between groups within the Kingdom.

	I have fought people at Pennsic too, same thing here. I have also
	fought people over in the West, from Caid, East, Middle, Trimaris,
	Atlantia and Calontir.

	I fight in very light armour, I feel the difference. What I have found
	out is that most of the differences depends on the way they armour
	themselves in different PARTS of Kingdoms.
	The hardest hitters I have met sofar came from the West, shared second
	comes the East and Atlantia. The rest come out about equal.

	A few Kronors worth of thought.
--
HP   : Morgan "the Dreamer" Broman			mabr@sweden.hp.com
SCA  : Morgan deGrey
APD-I: Shade
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
	What is life, but a sequence of fragments of time put
	together in a random fashion, to create eternity...

	[R] Shade
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing stated here is an official statement by the Hewlett-Packard Corp.



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: brandon@gauss.math.brown.edu (Joshua Brandon)
Subject: Re: You Know You're In The SCA......
Organization: Brown University Mathematics Department
	<1992Nov5.095653.20080@news.arc.nasa.gov> <442-JNEWS-2.1@smylex.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:18:35 GMT

Godfrey de Shipbrook writeth:

>What's really strange (at least, to me) is to hear a bailiff call the
>court to order by shouting `oyez' -- and pronouncing the `z'...

I have a feeling it was prounced in period, at least early on.  Any Old
French scholars that know for sure?  I've been wondering if this is another
one of our little bits of "SCA-culture".


		--Simon
From: 76520.3531@compuserve.COM (Jack Thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Needles
Date: 12 Nov 92 09:11:07 GMT
Organization: The Internet

It occured to me this evening that this list might be able to provide 
information about a thesis of mine, that only some of the needles used to
sew medieval mss books were of the metal variety.  I have manufactured metal
needles (mild iron) for use in sewing endbands on books in the technology of
the medieval book workshops which Jim Croft and I teach, but the text blocks
are sewn using hog bristle needles.  Hog bristles are still used by cobblers
in sewing soles of heavy workboots and show up in Diderot's Encyclopedia; I
have sewn fabric with them, after learning how to thread them from an old
local shoe repairman who learned to thread them as a lad.
My local source, Oregon Leather Company, has dried up.  The minimum order
(from China) went way up.  If anyone out there can find some (I'm down to my
last 50 or so) I will be happy to send a threaded needle along with complet
instructions.  They are called waxends nowadays.  There is a metal analogue,
but that is not what I'm after.  The alternative is that I have to find a
farmer willing to board a pig for a few years. Which might not be so bad. 
I'd have a bit of bacon, some bristles, and, after altogether too much work,
an alum tawed pigskin.  Naah!  Done that before.  The tawed pigskin, I mean.
Phenomenal amount of fat to get rid of.
Thanks.
Jack C. Thompson  >76520.3531@compuserve.com<
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sherman@trln.lib.unc.EDU ("Dennis R. Sherman")
Subject: re: out-of-period dancing
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:27:39 GMT

Greetings to the Rialto from Robyyan.

Kerdawc an Cai posts:

[much deleted]
>I refer to the question above: how do any oop dance forms differ from any
>other oop dance forms when determining 'period-looking'? Some may be
>more readily recognized in their own right, granted, but can they be
>identified as being nonperiod style?

A rule of thumb previously mentioned -- if the dance is for a longways 
set, it doesn't look period to many of us who have studied dance.  

*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Robyyan Torr d'Elandris  Kapellenberg, Windmaster's Hill  Atlantia *
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Dennis R. Sherman  	         Triangle Research Libraries Network *
* dennis_sherman@unc.edu       Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill *
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: 880840m@ace.acadiau.ca (MICHAEL ALEXANDER MCKAY)
Subject: Masques
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:20:43 GMT


 I am curious -- what is the rest of the S.C.A. doing for masques? If you 
can forward me descriptions or (better yet) scripts, I would appreciate this 
immensely. I have written a few, and I would like to compare my work with 
the goings on of the rest of the Society. Thank you.

                                         - Lord Michel du Flambard,
                                           Bard of the Barony of Ruantallin,
                                           Minstrel and Dance Master of
                                            the shire of Wolfsgate.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Research committee topics
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:17:51 GMT

Arval wrote:
  It still exists; I think it's called the Foreign Committee, or something
  like that.  It surfaces from time to time in Board minutes, but I don't
  know what it has actually done.

It is called the International Committee, it exists, and I believe
it has several overseas members.  The last Board meeting announced
that little has been done in the last quarter, as the Board member
who supervises the committee had just joined the Board, and was a
little behind in familiarization.

	Tibor (working from memory)
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
From: Andrew.Cookson@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Andrew Cookson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Bush quoteline
Date: 3 Nov 92 13:03:06 GMT

lo'
   I would like to appologise to anyone who noticed my quoteline on any 
previous messages.   I did not intend to provide statements on a person's
mundane political beliefs in a forum where it would be inappropriate for the 
to respond.   I meant no offence.
  I am afraid that I do not look at the quote line usually, & that included 
mine, so when I wandered into an SCA base...

   Besides, I was speaking about beer. <G>

                                               - Aindries


... Two most common elements in the universe: Hydrogen & Stupidity.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: 0003900943@mcimail.COM (Marla Lecin)
Subject: Dictionary of Early Music - question
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:47:00 GMT

Greetings to the Rialto, from Jessa d'Avondale!

I've been browsing through the Oxford University Press catalog, and
found this book: "A Dictionary of Early Music: From the Troubadours to
Monteverdi" by Jerome and Elizabeth Roche.

Does anyone have this book, and do you recommend it?

Thanks,

Jessa
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Filk vs. Recreation (was Re: out-of-period dancing)
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:21:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Nov10.202145.7878
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

guth@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (G.Guth):
>First, to be really priggish about the question, Playford's first edition
>was printed in 1651, thus making just outside of period, whether you
>consider the upper limit to be 1600 or 1650.  

There are two ways to finesse that.  First, although it was published in
February, it is known to have been written by November.  Second, by the
calendar used in England at the time, it was still 1650, as the new year
came at end (?) of March.  (They were all April fools back then.)

-----
Dani of the Seven Wells
dani@netcom.com

   Aphorism is better than none.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: lecin@pilot.njin.NET ("Matthew J. Lecin")
Subject: Handicapping Crown List - old message
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 13:26:28 GMT

Dagonell says:

    >...Only the royalty and *AUTHORIZED* deputies are permitted to
    >know who submitted letters of intent, therefore we don't discuss
    >it.

No one, including four sets of Royalty, the kingdom seneschale, the kingdom
minister of lists, etc, has ever asked me to keep *anything* confidential.  In
fact, I make *lots* of phone calls to members of the chivalry all over the east
kingdom, asking about the entrants with whom I am not familiar.

And for the first time since I started selling the guide, it sold out - all 120
copies, by mid afternoon.  I can be coaxed into reprints...

 _  _  _              | "What you want, what you're hanging around in the world
' )' )' )   Semper    |  waiting for, is for something to occur to you."
 /  /  /    Esuriens  |
/     (_'             |                                         -- Robert Frost
From: tracker@wpi.WPI.EDU (William L Schongar)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Arrow-making
Date: 5 Nov 92 14:30:14 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu

In article <219732XXXXX@ACS.VIRGINIA.EDU> U254@sysm.acs.virginia.EDU writes:

>Milord--
>   In _The_Woodwright's_Shop_, author Roy Underhill describes a
>method of making dowels by pulling the split blanks through a series
>of progressively smaller holes drilled in a metal plate.  I don't
>know if this is period (the author's focus is Colonial era) but
>might be worth looking into.

 I have no first-hand knowledge of the subject, but I was told by some
people knowledgeable in the field that this is precisely who they were
made in period. Just like using a drawplate for wire, using a
drawplate for shafts required accuracy and a steady hand, but gave
good results.

-Tracker
From: liamr@stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu (Liam Hoekenga)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Shoe Biz
Date: 6 Nov 1992 06:09:50 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan
NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Originator: news@stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu


I have a suggestion for you, check the birkenstock stores near you (if you
have any) I was able to find a pair of shoes by a company call Comfoots -
the shoe style is called the old english. They're pretty period, and
comfortable to boot..
Liam Hoekenga
liamr@css.itd.umich.edu
From: casc@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Cas Caswell)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Care of dagger blades
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:05:02 GMT
Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA


 ilana@leland.Stanford.EDU (Judith Robinson writes:

>I recently acquired a very nice, very sharp dagger.  Unfortunately, many people
>tend to handle my weapons, so I need to dull the blade.  How do I do this
>without damaging the blade?  It is thin, good quality steel.

 My first thought is to cringe... because I like steel SHARP.... however, I
 don't have kidlets etc to worry about.

 2 ideas...

 1: Go to your kitchen cutlery drawer and take out the sharpening steel or
 wetstone. Place the blade perpendicular to the implement and make long slow 
 cuts. Test blade to see if desired degree of dulness has been achieved.

  when I hear dagger I immediately think double edged blade. Therefore I want
  to point out that this method won't work really well on dulling the point
  unless you use the wetstone and grind the blade tip with it.

 2: make a "modesty" sheath.... ie take a strip of leather and make it conform
 to the outline of the blade. Attatch straps so that leather is held coveringe
 the blade edge and tip. Then people can handle and see the blade and still
 have some protection from the blade edge.

 Good Luck.
 cas (casc@cup.hp.com)

 Warning: I'm not a real persona.... just a mundane who reads this group 
 looking for weapon care tips for my martial arts weapons...
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Group activity
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:17:37 GMT

Lord Daniel of Falling Rocks wrote:
  First of all, that a law is unenforcable does not mean it is a bad law.

Come again?

                                            In the case given as an example,
  the group thought they needed to host an event each year, and a real one;
  consequently, that is what they did.  The law served its purpose, even if it
  was not worded as well as possible.

You are badly confused.  The "case" given was in another Kingdom: the
law we are discussing is Eastern.

I can't speak for Arval, but none of your answers addresses my concerns,
insofar as I understood you.

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]