HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: CA gun laws -- in cars (waS Re: Travelling help)
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:07:34 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Aug25.233255.5315@crash> jca@crash.cts.com writes:

#I personally just have my .357 revolver in a locked case within easy
#access with two speedloaders ready.  I'm complying with CA law and I
#know exactly which key on my keyring will open up the padlock on both of
#my gun cases (both locks are keyed alike).

Excellent advice.  Also, I have a key ring that sepparates with a
quick squeeze in the middle.  Have the ignition key on one side and
the lock key on the other, that way you can open the case without
shutting of your engine ... or your escape options ...

Mike
-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov (Minh Lang)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Gun shows schedule wanted!!
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:43:28 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory

I would appreciate any info (Date/time) on upcoming GUN SHOWS around
Los Angeles area. Thank you very much. 
BTW, has anyone gone to the SOF convention in Vegas in the pass? I'm
wondering should I take a couple of days of my vacation and attend
the show in this upcoming September. I would appreciate any info
and comments. Thanks again.

  == Minh ==
  minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov
From: davidst@microsoft.com (David Steckler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: CA gun laws -- in cars (waS Re: Travelling help)
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:58:19 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <9208241654.AA02321@gtephx.com> forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:
#
#Finally, being only vaguely familiar with the geography of LA, 
#are there any areas close to Disney Land which would warrant
#having the gun unlocked (read: accessible but out of sight)
# anyway? (Should you accidently wind up there -- we'll be driving 
#in from AZ, and trying to avoid *any* off freeway travel except 
#Harbor Blvd right near D.L.)  [I'm not asking for legal advice 
#or recommendations -- just what you'd do yourself -- obviously,
#I assume liability for my own actions.]
#

Yes; all areas around DL. Anywhere within 50 miles of LA. (ok, so I'm a cynic
who used to live in LA and cringes as I see Seattle become more LA like and
politicians talking more and more about gun-grabbing.) Seriously, though, 
if I were going anywhere near the LA area, I'd find some legal (or almost
legal :) :) way of having a gun near. I've skipped all the discussion of
CA laws since I hope to avoid ever having to go back there, but I seem to
recall something about revolver speedloaders not being considered part of
the gun, unlike magazines. (look this up yourself). 

Alternatively, is there any way you could go to Orlando instead, avoiding
the smog, traffic and gangs in one fell swoop? 1/2 :)

#- 
#"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street 
#with no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US 
#murders are committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?" 

Do you have data to back this up? If so, I'd love to have a pointer to it.

	...Dave
From: peterson@ucunix.san.uc.EDU (John M. Peterson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: factory ammo
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:20:16 GMT
Organization: University of Cincinnati


does anyone out there know of a source of factory ammo
for a european round called 8.15x46r?i had posted a
question about reloading components and recieved a lot
of useful info,thanks to all who responded.this weapon
has several people consumed with curiosity,now we almost
have to shoot the durn thing!

marty using jmp's account


+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  peterson@headcheese.daa.uc.edu      	 In real life: John M. Peterson  |
|                                                                        |
|  College of Design Architecture Art & Planning                         |
|  University of Cincinnati           45221-0016           513-556-1207  |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: hand loading question
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:07:10 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <9208261514.AA22016@bigguy.eng.ufl.edu> glock@chip.cba.ufl.edu (Joe Granto) writes:
#A friend and myself are interested in beginning to load our own rounds.  I 
#have no experience, and his is limited.  Can I get some recommendations on 
#fairly low-priced good quality loaders?  Also, I have heard that buying a 
#good dye makes life immeasurably easier, so could someone tell me who makes 
#the best 30-30, 10mm, and 9mm dyes?  Where is a good place to order them 
#from?  Thanks in advance...
#

For the pistol you can get Lee, they're as good as most and usually cheaper.
For the 30-30, I would reccommend Redding.  As for the loader, a good single
stage would cover all three cheapest.  Get a heavey one.  They are the most
solid.  A good scale is can be gotten from RCBS or Dillon.  The powder
measure should be a Redding BR-3.  They're not much more and being micrometer
makes them very repeatable.

Bill	Burge@qdeck.com
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: Stupid Shooter Tricks
Date: 29 Aug 92 13:50:25 GMT

I just remembered another incident...

I had a 1937 vintage Belgian Browning 16ga Auto-5 shotgun.  If you're
not familiar with this, you had to make an adjustment to the gun
depending on whether you were shooting light or heavy loads.

I made the mistake of shooting fairly heavy loads while having the
gun set for light loads.  It kicked like a mule!  After shooting,
I had a softball-sized bruise on my shoulder that lasted a week.

I had since sold that gun, and I'm sorry I did - it was one of my
favorites.  It had a genuine stag buttplate, which I'm sure didn't
help matters when it came to recoil.

One of these days I'll find another decent Auto-5....

Rob
From: sfaber@ihlpb.att.com (Steven R Faber)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: net.chemist wanted
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:20:35 GMT
Organization: AT&T

#From article <1992Aug26.102416.23911@polaris.utu.fi>, by ahahma@utu.fi (Arno Hahma):
# In article <1992Aug24.181113.19481@cbnewse.cb.att.com> sfaber@ihlpb.att.com (Steven R Faber) writes:
# 
# 
# Thermodynamically correct, but not in practice. Electroplating is not
# a reversible process - ever heard about overvoltage at an electrode?
# That is, by applying enough voltage both metals can be plated
# simultaneously.  There are numerous recipes for plating brass, bronze,
# etc. in the books about electroplating. Check any encyclopedia about
# chemical technology, say that of Kirk&Othmer.
# 

Well, stuck my foot in it again. Thanks for the correction Arno.
Too much theory vs practical can get you in trouble.  Most textbooks
go into hydrogen overvoltage only in respect to mercury cathodes, and
I didn't think it would be that large for these metals.
Plating sodium and potassium into mercury used to be one of my favorite
experiments.

Steve
From: giao@harpo.SEAS.UCLA.EDU (Giao N. Tran)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: What a gun owner should know ?.
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:01:49 GMT
Organization: School of Engineering and Applied Sciences, UCLA



    Greeting !...
    
    Since it's not easy for me to find a book that can give 
    enough knowledge about what the gun owner should know
    and the different laws in different states for gun owner,
    so I post these question with the hope that people practicing
    with guns can offer me some practical knowledge:

    1/. In what case the gun owner is considered having a self-defense ?.

    2/. If practicing in shooting becomes often, reloading the ammo 
        becomes more convenient, what should the gun owner know when
        he/she thinks about having reloading equipments and related 
        materials ( gun powder, brass.... ) at home, in term of the law ?.
 
    3/. Since the gun regulations are not the same in different states,
        what should the gun owner do if he/she wants to move to other state
        to live ?.

    4/. If the gun owner wants to travel for a long vacation, and leaving
        the gun home is not safe, can he/she transport the gun along ?.
        or what should he/she do ?.

    I really appreciate any answer/advice for the above questions and for
    anything else the gun owner should know.  Please email any help to
    my address above, thanks.

------G.T.
From: gonzalez@BBN.COM
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 s&w questions
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:43:05 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.235550.21651@nsc.nsc.com> Jerry Roe writes:
#In article <9208191756.AA17991@relay1.UU.NET> gonzalez@bbn.com (Jim Gonzalez) writes:
##By the way, did anyone else notice that Evan Marshall's stats note 
##"through-and-through" in almost incident?  He concludes that there is
##"a tendency for overpenetration"; an understatement.
#
#Uhh...wasn't he talking about the full-power 10MM here, not the .40 S&W?
#I know the 10 has (deservedly) garnered that reputation for itself.

The article to which I was referring was specifically about .40 S&W.  Most
of the shootings he was reviewing involved police using the 180/185
grain load.  I'm pretty sure the article was in _Guns_&_Weapons_for_Law_
Enforcement_ magazine, in the issue before the current one.

##Yes.  There was in an ad for it in American Handgunner, several months
##ago.  It's designated the model 100, as I recall.  One thing about it,
##and I think this is true of all Taurus clones of the Beretta, is that
##they have a 3-position safety-decocker.  I forget the ordering of the
##positions, but remember misgivings about hitting the safety too hard in
##a tense situation and ending up with weapon unable to fire.
#
#Hmm.  I don't own any DA semi-autos, but when you have a DA pistol and
#de-cock it, isn't all that's required to fire it just simply pulling the
#trigger through?  (Assuming a round is chambered, which is implicit in
#de-cocking.)  Isn't that the whole idea behind DA semi-autos?  Granted,
#you'd have to cycle the trigger again, but I don't see how the weapon
#would be *unable* to fire.

I had a chance to confirm my suspicion at my favorite store last
weekend.  The Taurus clones have a three-position lever: "safe", "fire"
and "decock".  If you get excited, as you might in a self-defense
situation, you can hit the lever too hard, overshoot the "fire"
position and end up in "decock", which LATCHES.  The gun will not fire
until you push it back to "fire".  The dealer agreed that he considered
it a misfeature, and is the one thing about the Taurus clones he
dislikes.

				-Jim.
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Stainless barrels
Date: 26 Aug 92 02:14:36 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <HOLLEN.92Aug24094910@peg.megatek.UUCP> megatek!hollen@uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck) writes:
##>>>> On 22 Aug 92 14:55:04 GMT, burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge) said:
#
#Bill> In article <1992Aug19.212748.1446@math.ufl.edu> sorrow@maple.circa.ufl.edu writes:
##
##What are the advantages/disadvantages of a stainless barrel on a rifle?  Aside
##from the obvious corrosion resistance, how good is it when it comes to wear
##and tear, accuracy, cleaningability, etc.
##
##[MODERATOR: Does "it looks keen" count....?]
#
#Bill> Does the fact that most/all Benchrest barrels are Stainless count?
#
#Probably not.  When looking to but stainless barrels, Shilen, for
#instance, sells regular stainless barrels, match, and select match.
#They are progressively more expensive.  The select match are VERY rare
#and only represent a very small percentage of all barrels produced by
#Shilen.  These are selected after production by inspection and air
#guaging.  The select match are the top of the bunch and these are the
#only ones which top benchrest shooters will buy.
#
#On the other end of the scale, the barrel in my Remington 700BDL in
#.17 caliber is stainless.  Right from the factory, nothing special
#ordered.  Stainless is the only kind of barrel available for this gun.
#

I restate my first assertion.  Since Sinclair doesn't MAKE a non-stainless
barrel, can't we assume that this is for a reason?  What would happen if
you asked for a "select match" in carbon steel?  Nothing special ordered
for the .17.  But I'm sure that it was put on there for a reason.

Bill	burge@qdeck.com
From: mplumlee@Bonnie.ICS.UCI.EDU (Michael A. Plumlee)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun show schedule wanted!
Date: 29 Aug 92 13:50:19 GMT

In <23053@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> kemasa@ghost.hac.com (Kemasa) writes:


#In article <9208262019.AA19386@elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov> minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov (Minh Lang) writes:
##I would appreciate any info (Date/time) on upcoming GUN SHOWS around
##Los Angeles area. Thank you very much.

#I would also like the information, as I am sure others would.
#--
#						 Kemasa.
#Insanity is the best defense.
#Sierra Club Leader	NRA Life Member		Pro-freedom	Pro-choice
#e-mail address: kemasa@ghost.hac.com

There will be a gun show at the Orange County Fairgrounds on 9/29 and 9/30
(that's this weekend). The hours are 9am-5pm.  The Fairgrounds are located
off the 55 freeway and Fair.

Have fun...






--
_________________________________________________________________
Michael				|the sore in my soul,
mplumlee@bonnie.ics.uci.edu	|the mark in my heart,
				|her acid reign...
From: J.M.Spencer@newcastle.ac.uk (Jonathan Spencer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: shooters force police to bahave
Date: 27 Aug 92 13:22:54 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU


This is a "for information only" posting, paraphrased from an article in
Guns Review 32(9):660.

Over recent years, Sussex Police's Firearms Dept had become *extremely*
inefficient to the extent that a straighforward renewal of a certicate
was taking up to 8 months. Furthermore, they ceased issuing reminders to
renew.

The situation had become intolerable. The magazine Guns Review, which
has a fairly 'robust' view of firearms legilsation, wrote to the Chief
Constable by name, seeking a personal response. They did not get one,
but received a reply which said that things would (eventually) improve.

Guns Review therefore made a formal complaint against the CC to the
Clerk of the Police Authority to the effect that the CC was negligent in
his duties. The outcome of this was that the Firearms Dept was given a
god shakeup (including their ceasing to impose unlawful questionaires
upon applications). The Dept is now much more efficient. The Police
Authority, however, refused to accept the charge of negligence. So it
appears that the shambles was nobody's fault, and no one is to be held
accountable. 

Good for Guns Review, I say, the sooner we have an independent
*national* licensing authority, the better.

--Jonathan
From: reb@amc.com (Bob Brunjes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Desert Eagle .50AE
Date: 26 Aug 92 02:14:59 GMT
Organization: Applied Microsystems, Redmond, WA

In article <9208220234.AA09596@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca> keith@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca (Keith de Solla) writes:
#Well, I was at the range today & got to fire someone's .50AE Desert
#Eagle.  Wow.  Awesome.
#It made a BIG bang & a big fireball.
#The recoil was noticeable, however I found it tamer than my friend's
#.44Mag Super Blackhawk which actually causes pain to fire.
#Conclusion?   I need a .50AE DE.   :-)  :-)

Me too, I think.  Out of curiosity, what kind of accuracy did you find?
#
#-------------------------------------------------------------------
#| Keith P. de Solla        | "I don't enforce the law, I regulate |
#| CMC                      |  human behaviour"                    |
#| keith@orion.ic.cmc.ca    |    - Commissioner Scali              |
#


Bob Brunjes		Applied Microsystems Corp
			Redmond, WA
			reb@amc.com
From: loki@acca.nmsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Which P-7 to use at Gunsite?
Date: 26 Aug 92 02:14:26 GMT


I am planning (read that as 'hoping fervently') to attend the basic pistol
class at Jeff Cooper's Gunsite ranch sometime soon (summer '93?).  Anyone
out there have any comments to make on the Gunsite class?

I intend to take an H&K P-7 of some sort to the class, as this is what I 
intend to carry (despite the esteemed Colonel's opinions on the 9mm cartridge,
I find the P-7 the most attractive option available for a carry gun).  I
currently have a P-7 PSP, with the grip-heel (European style) magazine
catch, but I am considering trading this weapon in for a P-7 M8, with the
thumb-release (American style) magazine catch.  Any opinions, pro or con,
on the choice between the two?  (I had considered the M-10 and M-13, but 
the M-10 looks like a botched job to me, and the M-13 is rather too large 
for comfort in my hands.)

Thanx in advance...

--Dan

"Master... Master...                       (To The Tune of Metallica's)
	Master of Science is your degree.  ('Master of Puppets')
	You're too dumb for a PhD.              loki@acca.nmsu.edu
	Should have studied for the GRE!    dftaylor@cechem.colorado.edu
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Mossberg 500 vs Rem 870
Date: 30 Aug 92 14:09:22 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University


I fired a Mossberg 500 12 ga yesterday and dug it.  It had 18" barrel,
(8 rd mag?) was parkerized, and had ghost ring sites.  Only matte
stainless (or a big price cut) could have made it better to me.

I liked it, but a few people have said that the Rem 870 is better.
A whole lot better?  Why?
I've noticed the mossberg can't be beat for price.  If it's not a
big difference, I probably won't care.

Is it possible I would regret buying one over the other?

Jim Del Vecchio
From: bakc@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR KR COMAN)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Stupid shooter tricks
Date: 31 Aug 92 12:56:41 GMT
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa

In article <1992Aug26.112506.20305@csd.brispoly.ac.uk> th2_oate@csd.brispoly.ac.uk (Tom Oates) writes:
#If you ever take a Sten to pieces you'll be impressed/appalled by the 
#awesome simplicity of the >design. It's the kind of thing you could make in 
#your garage...

I can remember hearing somewhere that this was very much the thinking behind 
the Sten's design....at least the early Marks.   In the dark days of 1940/41 
a "good", cheap smg was needed that could be turned out in their thousands 
using parts fabricated by even one-man band machine shops working to 
patterns.  Even the Nazi's adopted a carbon copy of the Sten circa 1944 for 
their Volksstuurm.

BTW the Sten was designed to shoot a sort of "Super-Dooper ++P" 9mmP 
round -- heard a delightful story of a shooting club in the UK in late 1940'
s that had members with some 'liberated' 9mm Lugers.   Problem was that they 
recoiled violently and started to shed their ejectors (one chap had the 
mirror image of "Geladen" imprinted on his forehead) -- situation 
persisted (amid mutters of 'shitly made German Lugers') until some bright 
spark twigged that just maybe they shouldn't be using all that WD-surplus 
Sten ammo!  
(Obvious Learning Point: Use the right ammo, Sunshine!!!) 

Cheers,
Keith Coman

[MODERATOR:  As educators, we refer to the "Geladen" example as a
``teachable moment''.....]
From: hammer@searchtech.com (John Hammer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: S&W J Frames
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:07:23 GMT
Organization: Search Technology, Inc.

In article <1992Aug25.232205.5526@news.eng.convex.com> cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) writes:
#In article <13400028@iftccu.boeing.com> bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler) writes:
#
##/ iftccu:rec.guns / uunet.UU.NET@mimsy.boeing.com /  8:09 pm  Aug 22, 1992 /
###While perusing the S&W catalogs, I ran across an optional bobbed hammer
###called the NYPD*SP. Has anyone seen this hammer? How bobbed is it? can this
#
##It would probably be cheaper to simply have the 'smith bob YOUR hammer.
#
#I wonder--would grinding the hammer down lighten it enough so that you
#might get misfires? I've thought of doing this myself, but have hesitated
#for that reason. 
#

My experience is that removing the spur did not cause misfires.  And, it
is pretty easy to do with a grinder (a hacksaw won't cut it).  I kept the
hammer cool by dunking it frequently in water, and polished the cut surface
with 600 grit sandpaper after finishing.
-John

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
John M. Hammer			404 441-1457
hammer@searchtech.com		uupsi!srchtec!hammer
Search Technology		Norcross, Georgia 30092
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: I'm baack
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:43:31 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

U16244%uicvm.uic.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU writes:

#Has anyone of you guys gotten a hold of a Colt M2000 and tried it out?  It
#looks really interesting, and I was wondering if it was as good as the
#magazines said.  Same goes for the new Browning BDM.

_Nothing_ is as good as the magazines say.  I've handled the 2000, but
not shot it, and it failed to impress me.  I thought it was a silly 
project.   They should stick to 1911s, imo.   The BDM would look better
with normal sights, but again, I have never fired it.   It is all cast
and uses clothespin type springs for the hammer, rather than coil.  I
like that idea, just the gun doesn't do it for me.

BTW, CZ-75s and 85s are going for about the same as BDMs and Hi-Powers
these days.   I'd give those a look if you like nines.
From: aeporro@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Bob Porro)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: German Firearms Regulations
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:04:45 GMT
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center


Regarding the recent thread on German firearms laws, what kind of firearms 
can a German citizen legally own?  Are there any caliber restrictions like 
some other countries have?  Can a citizen own any of the German made semi-
auto rifles such as the HK-91, 93, or 94?

******************************************************************************
| Bob Porro                    || (The opinions expressed here are not       |
| aeporro@venus.lerc.nasa.gov  ||  necessarily those of the management ?\*!) |
|                              ||                                            |
******************************************************************************
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: :Re: Stupid Shooter Tricks
Date: 1 Sep 92 01:55:00 GMT
Organization: NCSU Computing Center - Adams' Family Club

In article <1992Aug31.155724.15759@ncsu.edu> edhresko@hresko.EOS.NCSU.EDU (ERIC DAVID HRESKO) writes:
#
#
#	As a matter of fact, I was reading an article on ammunition in house 
#fires (I believe it was in the NRA book of facts) and it said the NRA did a test

  There is more material in Hatcher's Notebook.

#by subjecting unprotected ammunition to fire and seeing what kind of colateral
#damage was caused.  The most significant damage was something like a perforated 
#piece of cardboard that was within 5 feet of the explosion.  I don't really
#remember all of the facts, but the general idea was that ammunition that 
#explodes outside of the firearm poses little threat...unless you are holding it!

  I think that this is not taking the subject seriously enough.  While
it is clear that in this situation that ammo is *much* less dangerous
than in a firearm, it still can cause significant injury.  It can easily
put out an eye.  John DeArmond has posted some of his personal 
experience with bullets sticking into a wooden ceiling.

  So while I think that stories of a bullet going through a wall
and injuring someone can be discounted, I'd hate to think that 
anyone might be misled into ignoring the very real dangers.

--henry schaffer  n c state univ