HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: cleaning and lubricating a chain
Date: 31 Jul 92 19:04:01 GMT

Jim Brewer writes:

> You don't want the lubricant to gel up because then it won't flow into
> the small clearances where the majority of wear occurs.  It will get
> squeezed out and will stay out.
>
> Additionally, the grease new chains are packaged with is to prevent
> corrosion during storage, not to lubricate during use.  Motorcycle
> chains come with instructions indicating to lube the chain before use.

I see you skip a lot when you read these things.  The lubricant I use and
suggested for use has a volatile carrier that evaporates after penetrating
the chain.  After application it is a slimy gel that can be wiped off
easily but it does not flow out of the chain as motor oil would.  Your
contention that this stuff will be permanently displaced is better addressed
to the wax adherents.  That you saved this critique for an established
commercial lubricant specifically made for chains, I find curious. Anyway,
I have used this stuff on and off for 30 years and am satisfies that it
performs better that any of the other lubricants that have been suggested
by others on this subject.

That the grease in which chains are shipped is not a lubricant is an error
in interpretation.  If you were a manufacturer of chains and you were
interested in customer satisfaction, would you ship chains that were not
ready to install and use.  Would you impregnate them with a substance that
must first be removed using solvents after which one had to purchase other
products before the chain could be used?  I certainly would not and I have
found that a new chain works flawlessly with the original lubricant and
longer under the same conditions than when it is re-lubricated with, for
instance, motor oil.

I think the FAQ is correct; chain care is a religion.

religion: cause, principle or system of belief, held to with ardor and faith.
(Webster's Dictionary)

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: sery@crunch.unm.edu (sery)
Subject: Re: Tour de France (from l'Equipe):  Stage 18
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 18:25:48 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/lib/rn/organization

Brent Seales writes:

>  [... he posts the l'Equipe stage 18  description ...]

Thanks again for the great reports!

This stage finish was just fantastic!  I was on the floor screaming.  My heart
rate was above AT for the last kilo.

>131. Harvey D. (BARK)		 3h 12'  6"

So this is why we haven't heard much from 'ol Dave!  

Paul Sery
Albuquerque, NM
From: ralph@minnow.sp.unisys.com (Ralph Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Seattle area races
Summary: Need schedule, going there
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:18:47 GMT
Reply-To: ralph@minnow.UUCP (Ralph Smith)
Organization: Unisys Corporation

Help me!
I am flying to Seattle August 21 through 27 and I would like to take
my bike for racing and fun. Can anyone supply me with race info in the
Seattle area so I can use the Cheap! transport rate on United?

Any and all assistance GREATLY appreciated.

Ralph.
--
From: normdec@VNET.IBM.COM (Norm deCarteret 813-878-3994, TL 438)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Drivers who just miss
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:41:06 GMT

In Florida, it's easy to identify two other driver types who nearly put
a crease on you, for different reasons.  The hostiles and the old folks.
The hostiles apparently want to scare or impress you.  You can tell it's
intentional because they're watching to see your reaction in the rear
view mirror;  they'll often throw a bird at you as well.  If you throw
the bird first, they'll flip out and pull over to the side and reach for
the gun rack.  Beauts.  The old folks don't even see you...they're so.
scared of the centerline and oncoming traffic they're just hugging the
right edge.  One I caught up with at the next traffic light couldn't
even hear me ("You'll have to speak up, I'm not wearing my hearing aid")
until I shouted, then he claimed I was in the middle of the road.
It was apparent he never saw me, didn't remember a cyclist just a block
before.  The only thing you can do always bike as though every car is
going to take the worst possible action with respect to you.  Norm
From: jrh@mustang.dell.com (Randy Howard)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: NBC Olympic "Coverage"?
Date: 30 Jul 92 22:55:53 GMT
Organization: Dell Computer Corporation, UNIX Development

In article <l7g7r2INNadl@male.EBay.Sun.COM>, tmkelly@shootist.EBay.Sun.COM (Thomas McCabe Kelly) writes:
|> NBC truly is the worst commercial station for MAJOR sports coverage.  It is 
|> so disappointing... (but not surprising).

Did anyone happen to post the NBC mail address?  If so, could someone email it 
to me?  I probably missed it, this thread was a long one :)

-- 

Randy Howard            _o	    @'s: jrh@dell.com
Dell Computer Corp.     \<,	    !'s: ...!uunet!dellunix!jrh
______________________()/ ()______________________________________________
Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. 
 -Aldous Huxley
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: jps@netcom.com (John Serafin)
Subject: Re: Bicycle Racks
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 03:16:50 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

brian@clarisse.wustl.edu (Brian) writes:

>In article <20JUL92.15463242@alcvax.pfc.mit.edu> stek@alcvax.pfc.mit.edu  
>writes:
>> I am looking for info on bike racks and theft prevention.
>> Here at MIT, most of the racks are the old style that hold your
>> front wheel between two verticle poles supported between two
>> long horizontal poles.  These are a real pain to use with
>> the standard U lock.  I have seen lots of  other designs, but
>> I have no idea of which are the safest.
>> has anyone seen a report published comparing bike racks?

>I actually prefer those to the other kind we have here at Washinton U.  We  
>have some of those which you describe and some that are kind of like a  
>swooping kind og thing the bike rolls into.  Looks something like:

>     __
>     | \_
>     |    \
>    _|_____|_

This type of rack is often know as "wheel bender", for obvious reasons.
One variant on this style of rack has every other stall such that the high
end faces the other way.   I assume that this is to allow bikes to be parked
along both sides of the rack.   I have found that if I lift the front wheel
over the high part that is east to lock the front wheel and frame to the
rack with a "U" lock.   In addition, the bike can not fall down and bend
the wheel.   At the building where I work, the stalls all face the same
way and the rack is very close to a wall.   I asked to have the rack reversed,
and facilities complied. On rereading, I see that this is what the previous
message also recommends, so I strongly second it.

>There is basically two of those things, side by side.  They are about 1/2  
>wheel height.  I guess you would roll your front wheel into it, lock the  
>wheel, and say goodbyew to your bike.  Basically the only bikes I have  
>seen locked to these things are old rusted schwinns, huffys and murrays.
>Most of the nicer bike either use the racks like you described, or the  
>railings of a staricase (I prefer the latter).

>For the kind of rack you described, pull your front wheel up and over the  
>rack, leaving your bike resting with the top bar of the rack between the  
>back of your forks and the front of your downtube.  Then put the u lock  
>over your down tube, under the top of the rack, through your front wheel  
>(be sure to grab one of the vertical bars with it, too) and stick the  
>locking part of the lock on between your spokes.  This method is pretty  
>simple.  I have not yet seen a rear wheel stolen, although I have seen a  
>few fronts gone.

>brian
-- 
John P. Serafin  |  Operating a bicycle is more like driving than riding.
jps@netcom.com   |  Operating an automobile is more like riding than driving.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Bad Accident
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 22:49:31 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Distribution: na

Joe, there probably isn't anyone here that has a lower opinion
of cops than me (I grew up in east Oakland). But even I know that
cops _have_ to know the law as well or better than most lawyers
_from_ the enforcement side of the issue.

I see cops speeding all the time. I saw those who were shaking
down the locals and those who always flash their badge to get
discounts or special favors. I agree that there probably isn't
a single cop out there that isn't working some scam that isn't
completely legal.

But police work is a crappy job and if flashing a badge to get
a discount or moving to the head of the resaurant waiting list
let's them do their job with more satisfaction then it's a small
price to pay. 

Whe just have to know where to draw the line. (125 in a 55 seems
pretty far over it to me.)

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: jbrodsky@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu (cool flowin gotta keep goin...)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Is it ok to soak cluster in gasoline?
Date: 25 Jul 92 21:40:15 GMT
Reply-To: jbrodsky@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu
Distribution: world,local
Organization: UofA Hardware And Computing Knowledge Society
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-a4

In article <1992Jul21.214930.8039@panix.com>, paul@panix.com (Paul Gatker) writes...
> 
> A pawl seems to be sticking intermittently on my rear SunTour 600 cluster.
>I figured leaving it in a bucket of white gas with some moderate agitation
>would clean up the problem.
> I just wanted to get some quick international feedback on the advisability
>of this idea.
> 
> P.S. I know, no smoking around the project.


      I have been cleaning components in gasoline, since I learned to ride. 
My drive trains have never had any problems, whether they were on road bikes,
MTB's, or BMX's.  Clean well, oil well, and you should have no problems.
If you have cassette cogs, take them off, and soakem.  If you have a freewheel
with integral, bearings and cogs,(screw on type), be sure to get some chain
whips and remove the cogs, and clean them separate from the bearings.  If you
get gas in the freewheel bearings, the whole freewheel will need to be rebuilt.
It's a tedious job, and definiitely not one for the light hearted, or 
frustrated.  If you have any questions, pleez feel free to lemme know.

    Joel Brodsky    jbrodsky@hacks.arizona.edu
                    jbrodsky@seagull.tucson.az.us
                    jbrodsky@maria.wustl.edu
                    jmbrodsk@nyx.cs.du.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,ont.general,can.general
From: Mother Nature <gaea@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Bicycle helmets (was Re: Ontario government ...)
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:54:38 GMT

pt@geovision.gvc.com writes:
>880431j@dragon.acadiau.ca (Stacy Janes) writes:
>
>>Mother Nature <gaea@zooid.guild.org> writes:
>
>>I live in Ontario, and I disagree with the mandatory law, but I agree with
>>helmets.  For me, it has nothing to do with getting a ticket, it is just
>>one more constricting law to get money for the government.
>
>Anybody who doesn't wear a bike helmet _will_ probably have their head
>examined - by a coroner.
>
>-- 
>Paul Tomblin, pt@geovision.gvc.com or {uunet,revcan}!geovision!pt
>(This is not an official opinion of GeoVision Systems Inc.)
>Zen T-Shirt: Enlightenment Available - Enquire Within
> -- Paul Gillingwater (Paul.Gillingwater@actrix.gen.nz) on rec.humor.funny

Please get your quotes right, I did not write the above paragraph.

Gaea

Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 09:58:42 -0400 
From: Sandi Alexander Kwee <sk1i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Aluminum's Lifespan

Unlike the case with CrMo, steel, or titanium, the stress and strain
placed on aluminum is additive -- meaning that every bunnyhop, bump, or
fall continually weakens your Al frame until eventually it breaks.
THis is different from the case of CrMo, steel, or Ti where if the
stress is below a certain level, no structural damage is done. Does
anyone know what Aluminum frame life expectancy bike designers shoot
for when they design a frame? I'm sure some manufactures overbuild
their frames more than others... Anyone have any anecdotes on the
lifespan of their Aluminum bikes?
--Sandi
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: USCF and recumbents
From: Eric Schweitzer <ERSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thursday, 30 Jul 1992 13:35:20 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

In article <1418@sousa.ltn.dec.com>, wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com says:
>The letter in HPV news explicitly said that the problem was not with the
>high bottom bracket, but with concerns about visibility of a recumbent
>which he assumed was lower than a diamond bike.  I don't have the
>letter in front of me, so this is not a quote.
>
>--David Wittenberg
Well, my copy is in front of me...and since I probably should have included
this in my origonal post....

"The decision was based not on the exposed chain rings, but because the
recumbent bicycle is difficult to see, especially in a pack. A rider
from behind who is trying to make a move forward and thinks he sees
a gap doesn't realize the gap is, in fact, being occupied by a recumbent
bicycle. The rider's attempt to pass and find no place to move
could easily cause an accident. However, recumbent bicycles could
still be used in time trials."

FWIW...
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Bad Accident
Date: 31 Jul 92 19:23:08 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

John, a seriously injurred cyclist is prima faci evidence that
some traffic laws were broken. In any case like this a citation
should be issued and the courts should decide fault, not a police
officer.
From: jh@scs.uiuc.edu (jh)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Avocet 30: mounting trans. ring
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:26:24 GMT
Organization: scs

The transmitter ring for the Avocet 30 has three little tabs which snap over
the front hub.  Unfortunately, I have 32 spoke wheels and 3 into 32 does not
go, i.e. there's always at least one spoke in the way.  The manual recommends
cutting off the tabs and attaching the ring with electrical ties to the
nearest spoke crossings.  This solution is sub-optimal given that the
electrical ties won't match up neatly either.  Is there a clever solution
that I am missing.  Any advice appreciated.        jh.
From: alavalle@seqp4.sequoia.com (Art LaValle)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: funny stretch pants
Summary: careful here
Date: 31 Jul 92 19:01:25 GMT
Organization: Sequoia Systems Inc., Marlboro, Mass.

In article <1992Jul24.133315.9688@den.mmc.com>, sims@possum.den.mmc.com (John Sims) writes:

> getting anywhere at much of any speed.  Y'know, just once, I love to see
> some football jock like John Amway, er Elway, ride a stage in _any_ pro
> bike race.  The results could be quite amusing.

Better be careful how much you bet on this one, if it's a flat stage you
might not be that amused. Remember that some of these animals have a high
proportion of *fast twitch* muscles and are known for their speed and
spinting ability. Make sure it's a stage with some hills if you're going to
put any of your hard earned cash on the line :-)

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney)
Subject: Re: MTB Touring (was: Touring bicycles -- an extict breed?)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:02:20 GMT

James W Gourgoutis writes:
: I think that the authors step over the 
: line, however, when they further breakdown MTBs into racing, TOURING, and such
: an obscure thing as an OBSERVED TRIALS BIKE, which I have never heard of.

While I agree that people (and manufacturers in particular) are tending
to segment the cycling market too finely, it is useful to understand the
differences that exist between different bicycle designs, and the
purpose for which the designer intended the bike to be used.

Observed trials is a form of competition for which specialized bicycles
most certainly exist.  Trials competition involves riding the bike over,
up, and down difficult terrain and obstacles, while observers score the
competitor based on the number of times (if any) the competitor touches
a foot to the ground.  The goal is to ride the course without putting a
foot on the ground.

: I rode the MS
: 150 on my old Peugot, which by modern standards, has touring-bike angles and
: long chainstays.  But in the 70's, the PX-10 had basically the same frame shape,(I think!), and it was an all-out racing bike.

The PX-10 had different geometry than did the UO-8.  The PX-10 was
shorter, and had somewhat steeper angles than did the UO-8.  The PX-10
was also considered to be a conservative, relaxed, and soft-riding bike
in its day.  In any case, road racing bikes have changed some since the
early '70s.  They have gotten steeper angles, shorter wheelbases, and
much less tire clearance.  I certainly won't argue in favor of all these
changes, but they have most definitely changed the ride and utility of
the bikes.

: 	Oh, one more point about my friend and his Marin:  He did get numb
: hands, and I think that's due to the geometry of his bike.  I did not.

I doubt very much that your friend's hand problems were caused by his
bike's geometry.  His position on the bike _may_ have contributed to the
problem, but one's position can be changed regardless of the frame
geometry.  Saddle rails can be slid forward or backward in the seat
post, and longer or shorter stems can be raised or lowered to fit nearly
any style of frame to a given rider.

: 	As far as racing bikes go, there are also supposed criterium bikes, but
: they look the same as road racers to me.

A full-on criterium bicycle is halfway between a road racing bike and a
track bike.  It will have the necessary features to support the use of
brakes and derailleurs like a road bike, but will have a geometry
similar to that of a track sprint bike.  In particular it will have a
very short wheelbase and, most importantly, a higher than normal bottom
bracket to allow the rider to pedal further into and out of turns.

: If I had aero brake levers on my
: old Peugot UO8, I'd put aero-bars on it, too.

"Aero" brake levers are easy enough to add, and are less expensive than
most aero bars.  You could always install both.

Harry Phinney   harry@hp-pcd.cv.hp.com
From: cyn@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu (Cyndi Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Olympics Results:M Team Purs (1/4s), M Sprints (Semis),W Purs (1/4s), W Sprints (semis)
Date: 31 Jul 1992 16:08:12 GMT
Organization: MD Anderson Cancer Center

Denmark (Ken Frost, Jimmi Madsen, Jan Bo Petersen, 
        Klaus Kynde Nilsen), 4:12.270     def.
    Britain (Chris Boardman, Paul Jennings, Bryan
        Steel, Glen Sword), 4:14.350
Italy (Ivan Beltrami, Rossano Brasi, Ivan Cerioli 
        Giovanni Lombardi), 4:15.440     def. 
    Unified Team (Valeri Batouro, Alexandre Gontchenkov, 
        Dmitri Nelioubine, Roman Saprykine), 4:16.685
Germany (Michael Gloeckner, Jens Lehmann, Stefan Steinweg, 
        Andreas Walzer), 4:10.980     def.
    New Zealand (Gary Anderson, Nigel Donnelly, Carlos 
        Marryatt, Stuart Williams), overtaken
Australia (Brett Aitken, Stephen John McGlede, Shaun 
        William O'Brien, Stuart Peter O'Grady), 4:10.438  
        (world & olymp. record, old record 4:11.245, 
        Australia, 1992)     def.
    Czechoslovakia (Svatopluk Buchta, Rudolf Juricky, Jan 
        Panacek, Pavel Tesar), overtaken

Men's Individual Sprint - Semifinals
 - Heat 1
Jens Fiedler, Germany 10.791     def.
     Roberto Chiappa, Italy
Garry Neiwand, Australia 10.912    def.
     Curtis Harnett, Canada
 - Heat 2
Jens Fiedler, Germany 11.279     def.
     Roberto Chiappa, Italy   --final ride
Garry Neiwand, Australia 11.293    def.
     Curtis Harnett, Canada   --final ride
 - Heat 3
none needed

Women's Individual Pursuit - Quarter finals
Hanne Malmberg, Denmark 3:46.959    def.
    Svetlana Samochvalova, Unified Team 3:47.444
Rebecca Twigg, USA 3:46.508    def.
    Jeannie Longo-Ciprelli, France 3:46.547
Petra Rossner, Germany 3:41.509    def.
    Leontien Van Moorsel, Netherlands 3:49.795
Kathryn Watt, Australia 3:45.305    def.
    Tea Ritta Vikstedt-Nyman, Finland 3:48.918

Women's Individual Sprint - Semifinals
 - Heat 1
Ingrid Haringa, Netherlands 12.263    def.
    Annett Neumann, Germany
Erika Salumae, Estonia 11.937    def. 
    Felicia Ballanger, France
 - Heat 2
Annett Neumann, Germany 11.889    def.
    Ingrid Haringa, Netherlands
Erika Salumae, Estonia 12.423    def. 
    Felicia Ballanger, France   --final ride
 - Heat 3
Annett Neumann, Germany 12.285    def.
    Ingrid Haringa, Netherlands

That's all I know - except that I am MAD as HE** at
NBC.  Every listing I have seen said that the late night 
shows on Wed and Thurs were supposed to carry track
cycling - but NO CYCLING either night!!!
Maybe tonight...
-------------
All opinions are mine, I tell you, MINE, MINE, MINE, MINE, MINE (unless 
you want to rent them for a small fee...)
-Cyndi Smith-------------------cyn@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu
-M.D. Anderson Cancer Center-----Houston, Texas
-ph: 713/794-4938--------------fax: 713/792-4262
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Cleaning Water Bottles
From: jbrodsky@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu (cool flowin gotta keep goin...)
Date: 25 JUL 92 15:58:07    
Reply-To: jbrodsky@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu
Distribution: world,local
Organization: UofA Hardware And Computing Knowledge Society
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-a4  

In article <1992Jul23.195322.16986@uc.msc.edu>, johnc@msc.edu (John D. Cavanaugh) writes...
>Sanitizing water bottles, etc. is a good idea.  However, I don't think
>that just tossing in a little bleach and swirling it around is a good
>idea (dangerous and probably not effective).
> 

   I have heard that baking soda in water left overnight in the bottle, cleans
all the plastic taste out of the bottle, is this true?

     Joel Brodsky     jbrodsky@hacks.arizona.edu
                      jbrodsky@seagull.tucson.az.us
                      jbrodsky@maria.wustl.edu
                      jmbrodsk@nyx.cs.du.edu
From: BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Signalling right turns
Date: 31 Jul 92 19:24:32 GMT

I see this is another one of those subject that when the crowds back
off and go their way, there is nothing there.  Right turn signals for
the rightmost road user is redundant in 99.44% of the time. When such
a signal is needed the pragmatic method is appropriate.  I for one
will not raise my left arm with right angle at the elbow if I am moving
from one lane of auto traffic to another more to the right.  If there
is a car there and I need to move in front of it rather than behind,
you bet I'll make the appropriate socially acceptable gesture.

When riding in dense bicycle traffic as there is at times on the local
university campus, I cringe when I see someone in the midst of all this
intermingling left and right traffic, someone raising a left hand as if
to ask a question.  The proper signal is to look at traffic and go when
it is safe.

Don't raise your hand.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com