HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ybin@sun.su.oz.au
Subject: Re: Our Letter to CND-CM:  a reply to cm9211z1(2).gb
Organization: Sydney University Computing Service, Sydney, NSW, Australia
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 02:52:24 GMT

In article <PI.92Nov10211129@spica.bu.edu> pi@spica.bu.edu (GARMARHARD) writes:
>
>* Since the article by Mr. Liu has made a deep impression on readers'
>  mind, it might be necessary for you to give some your side stories,
>  or facts. Although your letter does tell your opinions toward 
>  Mr. Liu's article, it did not give a different picture of Lu Gang's
>  story. It is understandable that to recall the event and the dead
>  colleagues and fellows is painful. Do you have other better ways
>  to clean up the impressions that the readers already have?
>
>* I, as one of the readers of Mr. Liu's article, would like to know
>  stories from both sides, instead of one side.
> 
	Could you please provide the other side story.  Two sides of the whole
  story are much better than the one side.  But one side of it is better than
  nothing.



Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china
From: xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li)
Subject: Re: What do we Chinese celebrate?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:58:51 GMT


In article <BxrztD.7r@cs.psu.edu> jyw@phys.psu.edu (Jin-Yuan Wu) writes:
>
>Each progress reported on People's Daily and/or any other medium is done 
>by many plain Chinese people like us, who worked 20hr per day, sending their
>kids to the grandma, staying the post with illness-excuse in pocket. If 
>someone says they did nothing worthwhile, he won't be popular. The
>gang of four said "don't work for wrong line", they are not popular.

My sympathy to you. But I think it is not right to send your kids to
your grandma. Kids need to stay with their immediate parents unless
the parents are not qualified. You should demand for 20hr pay as well.
You should demand the pay that matches your work. When you are ill,
you should not put the illness-excuse in your pocket. You are entitled
to have vacation when you are ill, or even you are not ill.

Is it right to work 20hrs and leave your kids to your grandma? Is it
right to work while you are ill? I don't think you are normal. If I
were your boss, I would let you stay home because I have to concern the
quality of your work.

The Gang of Four was wrong, but I don't think you are right either.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: rding@plains.NoDak.edu (Richard Ding)
Subject: RE: Mike Mo
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:13:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network




>From mikemo@Tymnet.COM Thu Nov 19 15:23:41 1992
>Received: from tymix.Tymnet.COM by plains.NoDak.edu; Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:23:35 -0600
>Received: from spiff.Tymnet.COM by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA11803; Thu, 19 Nov 92 13:22:41 PST
>Received: from han.Tymnet.COM by spiff.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA07829; Thu, 19 Nov 92 13:22:40 PST
>Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 13:22:40 PST
>From: mikemo@Tymnet.COM (Mike Mo)
>Message-Id: <9211192122.AA07829@spiff.Tymnet.COM>
>Received: by han.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA00603; Thu, 19 Nov 92 13:22:39 PST

> Is this GM credit card carry no annual memebership charge?

>Regards,

>Mike Mo

The GM Card will give you $3000 credit line, plus 5% rebate program
which you can cash this rebate credit when you future buy  your new GM car.
There is no annual membership charge, like DISCOVER card. 

I believe this is a useful MasterCard.



Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: smp@sun4.ee.ncku.edu.tw (Shine-Ming.Prong)
Subject: Re: to shamer
Organization: N.C.K.U. E.E. COMPUTER GROUP
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 07:58:41 GMT

In article <00963AB5.31F91F20@Msu.oscs.montana.edu> uphhswh@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes:

>First, everyone is responsible to and is evaluated by what he HIMSELF behaves.
>Second, believe yourself then others will also believe you, and not then not. 

          I sure your opinions.

  

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: ping@bnlux1.bnl.gov (Shiping Zhang)
Subject: Re: Refugee, America, Chinese
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 21:33:54 GMT

In article <BxIruF.86M@nic.umass.edu> usys@titan.ucc.umass.edu (CLARENCE J MAZIARZ JR) writes:
>In article <92315.0931053066211@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> <3066211@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>>     Recently I see many people talk about refugee. It seems most of them think
>>that "refugee" is a bad word, particularly some of them even think they could
>>humiliate others by calling them "refugee". I find this is very funny. This
>>is not "American" at all. Read history, you will know America is a country of
>>refugees. Most of American's ancesters were either political, religious or even
>>simply economic refugees when they came to America. Or you may simply read the
>>words on the Statues of Liberty. If some Chinese people become refugees, that's
>>fine. That's simply one way to join Americans.
>>
>>    Chinese, don't be treated by the literal Chinese translation of the word
>>
>>"refugee".
>
>Why don't you say prostitutes are hard-working people and deserve your 
>respect?   

  Calling others "refugees" is one of the few weapons some people have.
  So it's not surprising that they get very upset if the weapon is going
  to be destroied.  Comparing prostitutes with those who visit prostitutes
  in night but condemn prostitutes in day, I would give less respect to
  the latter. People like CLARENCE would argue that those prostitute
  visitors work much harder than prostitutes. Well, probably harder while
  in prostitutes' bedrooms. 

-ping
From: yeh@netix.com (Mr Shannon Yeh)
Subject: neither do you "d-fighters" have a Mao or a Zhou
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Organization: Netix Communications, Inc.
Date: 17 Nov 92 05:15:07 GMT

I do not care who is better between Mao and Zhou, but it is a fact that
the Mao-Zhou team changed the Chinese history.  I do not care, either, that
whether they have changed the Chinese history from worse to better or from
better to worse.  Mao is both brave and intellegent, and Zhou's expertise
is more in the intellegence side.  Let's take a look at the difference 
between those "d-fighter" "team" and the Mao-Zhou team:

1. Mao/Zhou team obtained support from the Chinese majority (otherwise,
   who helped Mao/Zhou make the Mao/Jiang war?), while those "d-fighters"
   obtained some "kind of" "support" from the foreign governments.

2. Mao/Zhou team practised their political dreams in China, while those
   "d-fighters" did HanJian things in the US and some other countries.

3. Mao/Zhou team placed their personaly safety/security/benefits in the
   secondary position when they were trouble, while those "d-fighters"
   placed their personal interests on the top of the Chinese people's
   interests.  (Please note that I did not say anything like "Mao/Zhou
   team placed their power-establishing effort in the secondary position".)

4. Mao/Zhou team obtained fairly good understanding about the White House's
   position, while those HanJian "d-fighters" thought that the Chinese
   democracy could be obtained by the assistance from the White House.

5. Those "d-fighters" are very similar to the Chiang Kai-shek team in the
   following ways:

   5.1 Most of them are educated;
   5.2 Most of them believe that their personal benefits are absolutely
       the number one thing.
   5.3 Most of them believe that, since staying alive is the primary part
       of 'human-rights', it is reasonable for them to run away when there
       is danger.
   5.4 Most of them believe that being an HanJian is one of their freedoms.

6. You may like Mao, and you may not.  But, it is the fact that Mao has
   never been named as the Chinese HanJian, but you "d-fighters" and
   you "blood-card-ers" have been recognized as HanJian by the majority
   Chinese.

7. In your "d-fighter" "team", you neither have a Mao or do you have a Zhou.

shannon
-------
From: gang@ms.uky.edu (Gang Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: What pride to take in being a Chinese?
Keywords: Mao Zhuxi,6.4
Date: 15 Nov 92 19:52:53 GMT
    <1992Nov15.111922.6068@ms.uky.edu> <Bxrp7v.2z7@ulowell.ulowell.edu>
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:

>I just talked to your GOD, he/she/it begs me to tell you GOD is dead! 

God is joking. You should be nice to God.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
From: phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Su Jianfeng)
Subject: Re: Political Prostitutes or Democractic Activitists  ? 
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 02:07:31 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.124011.797@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.061329.10597@marlin.jcu.edu.au> phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Su Jianfeng) writes:
>>After the arguments on CMFN have been carried out for two years and
>>there are many reasons which are anti-CMFN bill, but few of reasons
>>supportting CMFN, if there are some d-fighters who still push for the
>>CMFN bill, do you think that they are democratic activities or political
>>prostitutes ?
>>
>>J Su
>>
>	Let me ask you a question. Imagine someone in your family, maybe
>your father or mother, goes into business in China. After some initial
>success this relative finds himself in competition with some government
>official, and is winning the competition. The government official, in 
>fear of going out of business, arrests your relative and puts him in
>jail for 10 years on some trumped up charges. For example, your relative
>is accused of being a "counterrevolutionary". 
>
>	Now, in this situation, would you support CMFN? Or rather, wouldn't
>you support *anything* that might help eliminate such injustices?

No, CMFN can not solve the problem.   If the CMFN promoters have other
hiden reasons for promoting CMFN, they should show the reasons on public
also.
  

Can I ask you a question also ?

If a person knows the person who killed his parent and relatives hides
in a building and he burns the building for killing the killer for his
revenge, is the behavours of that person justice ?    The person, who
have burnt the building, is also a criminal.


J Su

>	(Yes, I'm an American, and yes, America has injustices, too. That's
>not the point.)
>
>Mark


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
From: wshi@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Weiping Shi)
Subject: Re: Political Prostitutes or Democractic Activitists ?
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 04:13:16 GMT

In <1992Nov23.023056.2465@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha) writes:

>I understand the arguments that economic freedoms in China will lead to
>human rights. However, I don't agree with them. I'd rather concentrate on
>getting rid of the madman. And I don't think that the loss of MFN would
>cause great loss of life in China. 

I see. So you want to replace the madman, I assume Deng Xiao-Ping,
with a wiseman, something like Gorbachev or Yaltin?
I think you are a madman!
From: yding+@pitt.edu (Yijun Ding)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: CFMN?
Date: 17 Nov 92 16:47:19 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <BxuAFp.GEp@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li) writes:
>If you don't believe so, ask yourself: am I manipulated by someone?
>I am certainly not. Do you mean people who are not CIA, KGB or
>Chinese National Security are all fools?

Of course not all of them :-)  But some of them ;-)


-- 
//Yijun Ding, Pittsburgh //Go your way, be happy.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: cmhui@cucs18.cs.cuhk.hk (Hui Chau Man)
Subject: Re: questions of the Korean WAr
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, The Chinese U. of Hong Kong
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 06:50:12 GMT

wenz@ucs.orst.edu (Wen Zongyao) writes:

>Dear netters,

>I recently saw a program of the Koeran War.
>I wonder why the U.S. didn't get a victory
>in that war.  The U.S. troops are much stronger
>than North Koeran and Chinese troops by the
>mean of equipments.  The same force with the 
>same general, General McArthur, defeated Japanese
>troops in the Pacific, but were frustrated by
>North Korean and China.

>Which side did most Korean people support?
>Was the conflict between General McArthur and
>President Truman(spelling ?) a big cause of
>the non-victory ending?
>Did the U.S. force fight as hard as they did
>in the WWII?
>Did North Korean and Chinese forces push the 
>U.S. force back by vast number of troops?

Before Mao send the troop to North Korean, Mao knew that if the US army
lost 50 to 60 thousand people in the battle, then US will retreat. Mao
win. Mao lost 500 to 600 thousand people in the game. Win!? 

Of course, if McArhtur had use nuclear weapon, there would be anther
story. 

By the way, when fighting in the mountain, high-tech weapon are not 
effective. Vehicle are worse then leg at that moment. 

>Should or shouldn't the U.S. enter the war if the UN
>didn't make a decision to help South Korean?
>Should or shouldn't China enter the war?

>What was the reason of North Korean's invasion at
>the beginning of the war?  

>The program I saw called the Korean War a forgotten
>war.  What do you think is the biggest reason
>that most Americans don't talk about this war so much?

>Thank you for your attention.

>Wen Zongyao
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:51:54 EST
From: <XXX100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: an appeal to help poor children in india

We have same appeal to help poor children in china
by Lix.
From: bihkyan@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Yang Yuanxin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Patriotism sucks (Re:  What the HK governor is doing?  Why?)
Date: 23 Nov 92 20:42:42 GMT
Organization: Educational Computing Network

In article <102920@bu.edu> lix@thames.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li) writes:
>In article <By6EC4.9z6@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li) writes:
>>(deleted)
>>Have you read Chairman Mao's booklet "In Memory of Dr. Bathern"?
>>In that booklet, Chairman Mao openly denounced the so-called nationalism
>>and patriotism. Chairman Mao did it before Xiong Bo.
>
>Prof. Li Xiao-lin needs to take some free tutoring in history. Lenin
>and InterCom denounced patriotism as counter-revolution even earlier
>than Mao. So Chinese D-fighters in 1920's and early 30's also
>denounce patriotism. So there were stupid slogans like: "Arm up
>to defend USSR!", "USSR is common fatherland of all working class
>in the world!", "Japanese invasion to NE is their first step to invade
>USSR!" etc. It was a few years later than 1931, that CCP finally
>realized that patriotism was useful to push KMT into corner. Then
>with approval from Stalin, they began to classify patriotism into two
>kinds: one was good, and another was bad.

  Certainly this is the first time I have ever heared of this, I will
spend more time on histry. But if you want to use this as an excuse for
your betraying to your former homeland China, it is not acceptable.

>
>Even this tutoring is free, it is strongly suggested for Prof. Li
>to donate a few bucks for young kids' education so that our young
>generation will be better educated in both math and history.

  Stop humiliating those poor children by joking begging infront ot
readers all over the world! By the time you have collected 1000$, those
children would have gotten their PhDs.

>
>-- 
>The SOS China Education Fund is a non-political, non-profit and independent
>organization to raise money promoting the education in rural China. All donations
>are tax-deductable. Make checks or money orders payable to: "SOS China Education
>Fund"; c/o Jie KANG, 2610 E. 5th Pl, Apt. 1, Tulsa, OK74104, USA.
 
  If those children and their parents have seen this, they will feel
humiliated, the reason is you are not serious at all, any body can find
this if he has read your posts.       
  If you really want to help those poor children, you should take it
seriously, sincerely!, don't make it like a joke.

 Y. Yang
From: gang@ms.uky.edu (Gang Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: dating a guy from China
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:24:46 GMT
    <Nov23.200330.81470@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

pan@arete.ATMOS.ColoState.Edu (Victor Pan) writes:

>In article <1992Nov23.130308.5271@ms.uky.edu> gang@ms.uky.edu (Gang Li) writes:
>> txt15@po.CWRU.Edu (Tao Tao) writes:
>> 
>> 
>> >Maybe this guy just wants to have sex to satisfy his hatural desire.
>> 
>> >Tao
>> >-- 
>> >p
>> 
>> Now I made up my last decision that this Tao is a lady.
>> Anyone correct me? if I am wrong.

>      yeah,  smart guy,  how did you figure that out?

Can't tell how, just want to make sure. One hint: the original post was from
a lady, I assume.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 22:29:22 EST
From: <XXX100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: questions of the Korean WAr
Distribution: world

 >From: wenz@ucs.orst.edu (Wen Zongyao)
 >Subject: questions of the Korean WAr
 >Date: 20 Nov 92 03:23:41 GMT
 >
 >Dear netters,
 >
 >I recently saw a program of the Koeran War.
 >I wonder why the U.S. didn't get a victory
 >in that war.  The U.S. troops are much stronger

             Because US didn't use a-bomb.

 >than North Koeran and Chinese troops by the
 >mean of equipments.  The same force with the

              Better equiped indeed,
              but not overwhelmingly.


 >same general, General McArthur, defeated Japanese
 >troops in the Pacific, but were frustrated by
 >North Korean and China.

                 A-bomb won the war agaist Japan.

 >
 >Which side did most Korean people support?

                 Don't remember any poll conducted then.

 >Was the conflict between General McArthur and
 >President Truman(spelling ?) a big cause of
 >the non-victory ending?

                 Not really.
                 Both sides were hard to win then.


 >Did the U.S. force fight as hard as they did
 >in the WWII?

                 Both had a hard time then.
                 I guess they did much harder
                 in late period of the war,
                 but less hard than they did in
                 V-war where they lost but didn't
                 know why.



 >Did North Korean and Chinese forces push the
 >U.S. force back by vast number of troops?

                 Mainly chinese forces.


 >
 >Should or shouldn't the U.S. enter the war if the UN
 >didn't make a decision to help South Korean?
 >Should or shouldn't China enter the war?

                Too late.

 >
 >What was the reason of North Korean's invasion at
 >the beginning of the war?

              To be a Marx guided King.
              Some say to invoke WWIII.


 >
 >The program I saw called the Korean War a forgotten
 >war.  What do you think is the biggest reason
 >that most Americans don't talk about this war so much?



              And both sides stopped and the war didn't
              last too long.And more casuaties happened
              in chinese side,less in US side.

              This war cost  Mao's eldest son, in some
              sense, which might be  reasons of Peng Dehuai's
              tragedy and  the outrage by Mao in his late
              life. Chinese have been paid much more for the
               war.

 >
 >Thank you for your attention.
 >
 >Wen Zongyao
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: yu@sioux.ctr.columbia.edu (Yanbin Yu)
Subject: Re: About CMFN
Keywords: China MFN
Organization: Columbia University Center for Telecommunications Research
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:07:09 GMT
X-Posted-From: sioux.ctr.columbia.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <BxxAs9.9A1@math.uwaterloo.ca> yma@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (William Yan Ma) writes:
>...........
>will change a lot. That's really helpful for the China's transition to
>democracy system. Democracy is not just a concept.
>
>William Ma


Yes, democracy is not just a concept.
I guess nowadays nobody is really bothing about this word.
because there are so many definitions about this.
It is doubtful that there is a person really loving democracy,
but it is for sure a lot of people love money.
However, everyone is concerned with money at least.
China now runs the second the largest trade surplus with US,
and people in Washington will find anything they can to
reduce this. Maybe MFN will be an easy target.

YYB
From: rding@plains.NoDak.edu (Richard Ding)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: GM card 1-800-#
Date: 19 Nov 92 01:47:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: ns1.Bxxwzp.Gv9
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

The GM card telephone number is
      1-800-947-1000.
You can use your touch-tone telephone through this number to apply
GM card.    Good luck!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: hongl@cs.tamu.edu (HL)
Subject: please let Zhou Enlai rest peacefully
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:07:29 GMT

Here are my 0.02.

1).  I honestly believe Zhou had considered all the factors before he made 
the decision to do what he believed to be the best thing to do for china.

2).  Outsiders are always more clear than the people involved.  But again, 
outsiders may not know all the facts and difficulties he had to face.  
Pang2 guan1 zhe3 qing1, dang1 juu2 zhe3 mi2.

3).  For those of you who think he could have stopped Mao from doing wrong
things, think twice.  Zhou didn't have the power or military support.  Even
if he did, was starting a civil war really worth it?  People had suffered 
enough from World Wars.  Besides, he couldn't foresee what could happen in
the future, being in his shoes, he avoided internal fights by compromising.

4).  For those of you who think he should have stood up to Mao, then he would
be a hero, but would China be better off with a dead Zhou.  He put down his
pride, his honor, even himself, worked hard for the goals he believed would
be beneficial to China at that time.

5).  He was found with cancer in 1973, I think.  In the final 4 years of his
life, he could have chosen to lay back and rest, but instead, he chose to work
even harder in order to compete with time, to try to get as many barriers out 
of way as possible, and he suffered tremendously.

6).  For those of you who think he did wrong and want to punish him,
just think having no children as his punishment.  Even if the rumor were true
that he had children, then he couldn't know his children, live with his 
children, must be a painful thing.

7).  For those of you who like to judge people, just step in his shoes and
see if you can do better.  If not, then stop judging him.  If yes, then
have you done anything for the people.  Even if the answer is yes, shouldn't
you spend more time on helping others since you have the ability than judging
him.  May be you would say you don't have the power, but then since you have
the ability, you should be able to think some way to do more constructive 
things.

Finally, past is past.  I understand exploring the past would help us avoiding
mistakes in the future.  But concentrate too much on what would have been done
or what should have been done can't help us building a bright future.  Just
remember Zhou was only human being, he was not god, he couldn't control a lot
of things, he made mistakes, and he suffered for them.  So, I ask you all 
please let him rest peacefully.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: u8123033@cc.nctu.edu.tw ()
Subject: Re: A biker ``flies'' over the Great Wall?
Organization: National Chiao Tung University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 17:23:52 GMT

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china