From: HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.)
Subject: Re: Children's Crusade (was Maury Povich & Brainwashing, or similar)
Organization: University of Houston Administrative Computing
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 01:55:57 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <1992Sep5.200457.12531@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> mprc@troi.cc.rochester.edu writes:

> 
>      In talk.abortion, Jammer Jim writes:
> 
> In <1992Sep3.203316.19589@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> mprc@troi.cc.rochester.edu writes:
> 
> > In <1992Sep3.160030.10916@mcs.gvsu.edu> orr@perlis.mcs.gvsu.edu (Wes Orr {Academic Computing}) writes:
> > 
> > >In article <1992Sep1.130250.2197@brandonu.ca> mcbeanb@brandonu.ca writes:
> > >>
> > >>     I would just like to say that I also had the opportunity to 
> > >>watch that Maury Povich episode yesterday, and Susan Garvin's
> > >>interpretation was quite accurate indeed.  It was frustrating
> > >>to watch the pro-lifers on the panel spew their arguments without
> > >>being able to tell them what was the matter with them (their
> > >>arguments that is).  Brainwashing put aside, those children were
> > >>and will continue to be abused by their parents.  I'm not sure
> > >>if it's good parental practice to allow your 13 year-old daughter
> > >>to be arrested 42 times, and say "it's ok, she wanted to do it,
> > >>I didn't put her up to it."
> > >>
> > >The thing is is that these same thirteen year old's are supposedly 
> > >old enough to decide to have an abortion without parental consent.
> > 
> >     Not by the side her parents stand for, Wes.
> 
>   JJ So what?  This is an internal contradiction of yours on this issue.  She cannot be old enough to choose and yet not old enough to protest.  She is
> both, or neither.
> 
>      Exactly my point. In other words, if I am being contradictory by
> saying that thse children are old enough to decide about their own
> reproductive systems but not those of others (and I don't think I am),
> then surely the pro-lifers are being contradictory by claiming that
> these children are old enough to make life-altering decisions FOR OTHER
> WOMEN but not for themselves. Clearer?

  Umm, no.  Your contradiction lies in the implication that they are not
of sufficient responsibility to make themselves heard, yet sufficiently
responsible to have an abortion on thier own.  *I* say, both or neither.


> > >How can she be mature enough to decide to have an abortion at
> > >thirteen but not old enough to oppose it? 
> > 
> >    Of course she is old enough to oppose having an abortion if she
> > became pregnant. The idea that she would have no say is disgusting. She
> > is not, however, old enough to oppose OTHER WOMEN having abortions. And
> > neither are you.
> 
> JJ  How old must one be to have an opinion?
> 
>      One may have an opinion at any age. However, not even Methuselah
> was old enough to impose that opinion on other persons, and he was
> definitely knocking on a bit. Geddit yet?

  No.  Your words are "oppose other women".  One may be opposed at any age,
and hold political opinions at any age, and express those opinions at any age,
IMO.  She cannot be old enough to choose an abortion and not old enough to
say in public that she feels it is wrong and protest same.

  Both or neither.


> JJ semper fi,
> 
>      Intriguing. To what?
>                                                  MP

  my beliefs and those I love.


semper fi,

Jammer Jim Miller 
Texas A&M University '89 and '91
********************************************************************************
* Aggie in Cougarland -- I just work here.				       *
* Speak for my employers?  They don't even know I exist!		       *
*"Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing System."*
*             *********************************************		       *
* "Power finds its way to those who take a stand.  Stand up, Ordinary Man."    *
*      ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mark Levine: Triumph 		               *
********************************************************************************


semper fi,

Jammer Jim Miller 
Texas A&M University '89 and '91
********************************************************************************
* Aggie in Cougarland -- I just work here.				       *
* Speak for my employers?  They don't even know I exist!		       *
*"Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing System."*
*             *********************************************		       *
* "Power finds its way to those who take a stand.  Stand up, Ordinary Man."    *
*      ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mark Levine: Triumph 		               *
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: talk.abortion