From: c164-ad@po.berkeley.edu (Martin Guerrero)
Subject: Re: PRO "LIFE" IS B......T!
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:30:07 GMT

In article <1af2n9INNd58@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com> regard@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard) writes:
>In article <1992Oct1.064658.28775@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> c164-ad@po.berkeley.edu (Martin Guerrero) writes:
>>In article <1acrgbINNr2s@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com> regard@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard) writes:
>>>You are pretty goddamned disgustingly stinkingly free with somebody
>>>else's rights, buddy.
>>>> [accidentally deleted line]
>>>>be ignored and looked down upon.  I'm just saying when the choice is between
>>>>the life of a human and the mother's situation, the life of a human being
>>>>must be protected.
>>>No, what you are staying, you pile of turd, is that the process to gain
>>>something that *you* value is worth trampling the humanity of other people
>>>whom you DON'T value.
>>I value all people, blacks, whites, and everybody else. 
>
>Not noticably.
>
>You value them to serve you, perhaps.  You value them to live their lives
>as *you* dictate, perhaps.
>
>Martin, let me just illustrate the point for you.              
>
>We should perform all drug testing on men.  We'll *only* do it for 9 months,
>and most of them won't die.  And it will save lives!!!!
>
Your example only deals with men and women.  If abortion were an issue
which simply dealt with the simplicity of a woman being pregant with a thing,
then your point may be well taken.  However, it is not just a woman getting
pregnant...

>
>>In fact, Jews, blacks, etc. are often viewed as people with no rights.  Not
>>only people with no rights, but people who should be removed from this
>>country or any other country in any way possible.  They don't value them.
>
>Yep, and you just added all women to the list.  Gee, thanks.  NB one of the
>primary ways that Jews, blacks, etc. have been reduced to subhuman in this
>country is just as you say -- they become people with no rights.  And this
>is PRECISELY what you are proposing for women -- to remove their rights
>as human beings in order to 'protect' a blob of cells.  One cell.  Two cells.
>4 cells.  YOU are proposing going down the road you have stated to oppose.
>That makes you stupid in addition to offensive.

The fetuses are renewable theory/sentiment can be supported by your
sentiment that the unborn are just a "blob of cells."  Dehumanizing that
which is definitely a human life and that which should have the right to
life is akin to not giving the blacks, jews, etc. rights.  We are heading
down the path by not protecting our most innocent members of society.

Yes, the above also recognizes the right of the mother to life.  Abortion
for mostly social reasons cannot surpass the value of a human life.

>
>>BTW, yes, I do value both the mother and her child(s).  But just because
>>I would protect the human life within the mother doesn't mean I hate or
>>don't value the mother.  I can stronly suggest to my wife (If I had a wife)
>>not to have an abortion yet completely and unconditionally love her.
>

>Heck, Martin, if you had your way, you'd FORCE her to bear a child through
>the laws you figure are 'for the better' and turn her into your breeding
>animal.  How 'loving' of you.
>

What can I do?  I didn't make women to carry our young ones and give
birth.  I didn't make men and women  produce offspring?  If this is a problem,
then the solution offered is abortion.  Abortion becomes okay because
it is just a bunch of cells, and besides it is reanewable, right?

Can't finish post.  Time constraints.  Oh well...

>>>ASSHOLES always end up exposing themselves without any need for help from
>>>the viewing audience.
>>Adrienne, why the hostility? 
>
>Because, Martin, you are proposing to this net to pass laws where my
>complete humanity is negated for *your* value set.

Imagine if people said this during the middle 1800s. The southerners would
have complained vehemently to the northerners for trying to pass laws 
based on the northerners value system.

>
>WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK.
>

Because I want to think.  I don't intend to be a non thinking drone all
my life.

Newsgroups: talk.abortion