From: stephen@orchid.UCSC.EDU (coram populo)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ca.politics
Subject: Nonsense through reading ( was: Book Review "The Homosexalities"
Date: 22 Jan 1993 01:10:39 GMT
Organization: Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: orchid.ucsc.edu

In article <74044@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
>... pseudo scientific lies ....
>
>Nope, actually there are lots of books like this, and it looks like the
>consensus of the scientific/medical community unafraid to be non-PC is that
>homosexuality can be changed in some cases, or problems treated, and taht
>gays have more than their share of psychological problems and uncontrolled
>or unhealthy sexual urges. There was a guy on Today who said that there
>are no cases of psychological homosexuality. Evidently, he's not aware of
>actual medical or scientific facts.
>

There are many 'books' but many are just conjecture.  They do not have
solid facts and evidence to conclude much of anything.  As for more 
than their share of psychological problems etc.  Why don't you think 
about this- suppose you grew up having people tell you that what you
desired was wrong, disgusting, and morally perverted.  How do you think
you would develop in the long run- I would venture to guess that you
would possess some psychological baggage that wouldn't do you much good.
Pervertion can happen to anything that is controlled and forced to become
something that it is not.  That is my definition of perverting, it is 
the act of attempting to control, divert, change, force the behavior
of an individual, becuase their behavior is not to your liking or to
your moral code.

>That doesn't mean we can bash gays any more than we should hate blacks becaus
>that group is more prone to crime. It does mean that any talk that gays

Whoa!!  Black are more prone to crime?  What kind of nonsense is this?
Blacks may be representative in a disproportinate manner... but to say
blacks are more prone to crime, is sure non-sense.  The condition of crime
is greatly enhanced by environment and cultural (social) surroundings.
Better think before you make a statement like this again.

As far as changing people from homosexual to heterosexual it is possible-
but that doesn't mean everyone can, and it doesn't mean that the individuals
who were- are really changed.

>It does mean that any talk that gays
>are statistically and psychologically just like anybody else is pure bunk
>for anyone that bothers to dig in the facts (as is drug use and
>promiscuity). Any bunch that simply throws away all relevant facts and then
>stands on no supporting evidence in my mind has some problems.

And you obviously have some of these problems.  The debate over this book
that touched off this current episode of non-sense, is not a book based
in hard scientific fact.  In fact in tends to be somewhat, shall we say,
mystical.

As far as statistically and psychologically the same as anyone else- is 
probably true about almost everyone.  We are all products (if you grew
up and were educated in the US) of this cultural system and social bias.

There are studies done on particular aspects about peoples lives, for
instance, and they are done on random samples of people... they do not
pick out people because they are gay, unless that study is pointed at
doing just that.

It is hard to figure just what you are trying to say.  If you are attempting
to create some image of people and then stick it on them, that is pure bunk.