From: bfvegiar@midway.uchicago.EDU (bonnie francene vegiard)
Subject: Re: Male denial about Women's fears.
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Reply-To: bfvegiar@midway.uchicago.EDU
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: 21 Jan 93 05:57:35 GMT

In article <1jj2vl$h23@agate.berkeley.edu> michael@neuron6.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Michael Rivero) writes:

>of innocence until proof beyond a resonable doubt, it is apparent
>that the effect of the last 10 years of feminist media activism has
>not had equality as it's goal, but a female superior legal and social
>system. That's not what we worked for in the 70's.

I simply don't believe that there has been any "goal" by "feminist
media" is a female superior system.  The perception has been that
women need protection since they have traditionally been powerless in
the system.  So laws have been set up to give them protection.  It's
taking a while to work out all the kinks, but there is no basis, that
I see, in talking about getting "back" to an equal way of dealing with
gender issues.  There never has been an equal way.

>  However, the good news is that the extremism has robbed the
>feminist movement of it's mainstream support, as was reported in TIME
>magazine

Leaving feminism to be defined by extremeists is good news?
I consider any assertion that it's "all right" to falsely accuse
men of rape extreme.  I believe most feminists I know would, too.

>  What men are responding to is a clear campiegn of
>mis-representation used to justify biased anti-male legislation, and
>it needs to be corrected and brought back into balance. The final
>question at issue here is, who started the campiegn of media male
>bash.

Again with this "back into balance" thing.  And I believe that what
MANY men are responding to are a confusion of roles and expectation
and a loss of power without perception of gain.  Who's right?

>  Ultimately (and this is a point I have hit repeatedly), the people
>who will pay the most for the epidemic of false accusations and
>misinformation is not the accused men, nor even the women who are
>proven to have made it all up as they are never charged with anything
>( the woman in the Norstroms case will not be charged). It is the
>REAL victims of rape and abuse who are fnding the police, courts, and
>general population less than sympathetic, as their credability is
>wreaked right alongside the "girls who cry wolf".

You have not convinced me of this "epidemic."  I do think it shows a
very misogynist opinion of women to believe that this happens on such
a vast scale.  I do, however, agree that young women should be well
educated about the dangers of false accusation (on any level) as well
as the dangers of saying "no" when t that may not really be what you
mean.  BUT men's education has to go right along with this.  Men have
to confront men who devalue women in ways that may lead to aquaintence
rape.  Men need to be educated to STOP when a woman says no.  Man as
well as women need to look at the social factors which may promote
rape.  You're placing it all beck on the women again, even if you use
the extremeists to do it.

Bonnie Vegiard
bfvegiar@midway.uchicago.edu


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