HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: positron@engin.umich.edu (Jonathan Scott Haas)
Subject: Diplomacy MUD
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 17:56:01 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

Let me clarify a few things about what I had in mind about running
a Diplomacy MUD.

First off, I would keep the mail server. I would interface the mail
server to run with the MUD so that if you wanted to, you could completely
ignore the MUD and work only through email.

But you could also sign onto the MUD. Once on, you could issue basically
the same commands that you could issue through an email message.

Advantages: The biggest one I could think of is instant response. You don't
have to wait for your message to float through the Internet and the response
to float back to get the output of your "list" command. Also, you could
agree to meet with someone else online and hammer out agreements/disagreements.
This is something I'd like to see.

-- 
__/\__  Jonathan S. Haas         | Jake liked his women the way he liked
\    /  University of Michigan   | his kiwi fruit: sweet yet tart, firm-
/_  _\  positron@engin.umich.edu | fleshed yet yielding to the touch, and
  \/                             | covered with short brown fuzzy hair.
From: jbeason@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Joseph E. Beason)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: SET WAIT question
Date: 18 Nov 92 23:58:45 GMT
Organization: UIUC Department of Psychology

Well, I've started my first game, the last game, angel.  I've sent in orders,
but slapped a SET WAIT on it in case someone wants to chat with me; if
everybody else gets their orders in, will i know it, and thus be able to send
in a NOWAIT command?  Wouldn't want to hold things up.
From: hirai@cc.swarthmore.edu (Eiji Hirai)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Re: New Judge?
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:52:36 GMT
Organization: Information Services, Swarthmore College, Swarthmore, PA, USA

BTW, I should warn folks who might be thinking of using the South African
judge that the network connection to South Africa is somewhat flakey.  (I
regularly send email there.)  I heard from some network guru there that their
link to Portland, and hence to North America is

	"currently a single voice-grade line with a pair of v32bis modems,
	which retrain down to 300bps from time to time, and need to be reset
	before they climb back to 12000bps (the fastest that they get on that
	line)."

Maybe the Australian connection to North America is faster and more reliable
for now.

--
hirai@cc.swarthmore.edu (Eiji Hirai)    :     :    :   :  : :: ::: :::: :::::
Unix Geek for Swarthmore College        :     :    :   :  : :: ::: :::: :::::
Information Services, Swarthmore, PA, US.       Copyright 1992 by Eiji Hirai.
I don't speak for Swarthmore College.                    All Rights Reserved.
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: garygm@leland.Stanford.EDU (Gary Brainin)
Subject: Re: More on mapit (forwarded from Zenith).
Organization: Stanford Law School, Stanford University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 18:25:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.164135.1634@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> joregan@nyx.cs.du.edu (John O'Regan) writes:
> [lengthy and well-done explanation of using "mapit" deleted]
>
>  All I needed then were the rsults from a DA.  I extracted a file from my
>mail, called it something meaningful like newton.f1910m and cut off any lines
>put there by the mailer and issued the command:

   Just a minor note: the mapit program is intellegent enough to
ignore anything which isn't judge output.  I sent it an entire history
file, broadcast messages and headers included, and while it spit at me
a little, it happily created a beautiful series of PostScript maps
showing everything that had happened in the game.

			-Gary

-- 
|Gary Brainin                     |BITNET: garygm%leland.stanford.edu@stanford|
|garygm@leland.stanford.edu       |UUCP: ...decwrl!leland.stanford.edu!garygm |
|"...the right to be let alone-the most comprehensive of rights and the right |
|most valued by civilized men."    Olmstead v. U.S. (Brandeis, J., dissenting)|
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: OK, this judge thing has me confused...
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 17:20:54 GMT

WS> == Whiplash Smile <jggoslin@vela.acs.oakland.edu> 

 WS> Now, I thought it may take a little while for the adjudicator to
 WS> process this one, perhaps 5 mins or so, but most definitely not two
 WS> days!  So I must conclude that either a) the judge didn't get my
 WS> orders, in which case I must send them again, or b) I worded them
 WS> wrong.  I believe it to be the latter of the two.  Could someone fill
 WS> me in on how to do this?  What am I doing wrong?

The morrolan judge is not processing anything right now.  I'm checking
with David Kovar to see what's up.  (This is called "growing pains" as
I'm sure other new judge admins have had problems at first too :-)

The machine and the net links are relatively fast (it's an '040 NeXTcube
with near no load most of the day, and we have a T1).  Once David gets
things settled out, it should be back to the "normal" 5 minute or so
turnaround.

If you word things wrong, the Judge will tell you.
--
Christopher K. Davis      | ``Usenet seems to run much like the Kif (or,
<ckd@eff.org>   EFF #14   |   for the TV generation, Klingon) high command.
System Administrator, EFF |   Whoever takes action and can be heard wins.''
+1 617 864 0665  [CKD1]   |   --Peter da Silva <peter@ferranti.com>
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: skenny@pico.engr.mun.ca (Shawn Kenny)
Subject: Re: Confused about the process
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:16:41 GMT

jbeason@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Joseph E. Beason) writes:

>Well, I've just found out about the pbem games, and just got into angel
>in time, it seems.

>I don't know if there's anything I can do to help, since I don't know
>half of what everyone is talking about.  If any of you have the time,
>could you explain how all this works.  i was under the impression that
>a program somewhere just grabbed the incoming mail and spit out responses;
>obviously it's much more labor intensive.


Ditto!!

skenny@pico.engr.mun.ca



--
"There is the smell of an election in the air. Some of you believe it is
the smell of tar and asphalt... I assure you, however, that it is indeed
the smell of an election." -   John Savage, Leader of the N.S. Liberals.
                           skenny@pico.engr.mun.ca St. John's, NF Canada
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: elliottm@csulb.edu (Mike Elliott)
Subject: Proposal for (low) speed game on any server
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 06:23:12 GMT

Gary Brainin writes:

>     So, how much interest would there be in a _really_ fast game: say,
>  48 hours for moves, 12 each for retreats and builds, and orders
>  accepted every day (including weekends)?  Naturally, I'd leave a gap
>  around Thanksgiving.  Due to the timing, it should probably be
>  restricted to people in the US time zones.

Hey, I remember those heady days when I was an undergraduate and could
spend 14 hours a day playing bridge, or Diplomacy, or chase girls, or
whatever, but those days are over for me.  Now I don't knock those who
still have the opportunity for such hedonistic pursuits, but short of
catastrophic unemployment I will never be able to keep up that pace again.

On the other hand, I'm currently involved in a game (warthog) in which I'm
lucky to hear from the other players once per week.  Perhaps there is a
need for a _really_ slow game series as well.  In my current game there
appear to be two types of players -- those who can play (an hour or so)
9 to 5 Monday through Friday, and those who can play evenings and weekends.
Perhaps separate flavors of games might be made available for those of us
who don't have as much time as others.

A further advantage to this dichotomy is that _really_ slow games could be
farmed out to machines like mine -- where I have lots and lots of excess
computational resources, but narrow mail bandwidth. 



-- 


                                           Mike Elliott
                                           elliottm@beach.csulb.edu
From: nick@sunburn.uwaterloo.ca (Nick Fitzpatrick)
Subject: Judge - its fast
Originator: nick@sunburn.uwaterloo.ca
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:14:53 GMT

Say, anyone noticed that the judge has had no backlog since
Ken's announcement.  And I have actually received E-mail communications
from people . . . .

Wow, people are doing the right thing, I am amazed . . .

Keep it up guys, we can atleast keep everyone happier with the
remaining games, by keeping press to E-mail!

Nick

Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: abick@sebastian.carleton.ca (Alan Bick)
Subject: New Judge and Hall of Fame
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 02:05:06 GMT

I just heard about the new judge in North America and I'm thrilled
Incidentally WHERE exactly is it? (I don't mean email address, I mean
geographically.)

Just to be safe, I re-registered myself at Durban and Australia but didn't
signon to any games as of yet. My question is are any of the games on
these judges going to be part of the Hall of Fame? I'm sure that
dedication points are not-transferable from one judge to the next, (which
is fine, I guess) but does that mean there will be several Hall of Fames?

I know Nick is responsible for the Hall of Fame (and he seems to post a
lot here) but I felt this a good question which a lot of people will want
to know. Right now, does the Hall of Fame take into account games in
Durban, and Australia and/or does each on have their own?

I think that there should be a Hall of Fame for the new one but whether it
should also include the present Hall of Fame, I don't know. What do you
guys think?

Alan Bick
From: randall-joshua@yale.edu (Joshua Randall)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: New Judge?
Date: 18 Nov 1992 03:49:38 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

[Josh:  the "imminent death of the Net" goes in "news.groups", not
here <grin> --private joke, folks, sorry]

In article <1992Nov18.071550.20248@muddcs.claremont.edu> irilyth@fenris.claremont.edu (Josh Smith) writes:

[much deleted]

>Comments, suggestions, etc. welcomed as always.

What are the resources required to run a Judge?  Does it require its
own machine, or could it be run out of an individual account on a
mainframe?  Would a desktop IBM-clone have the power/memory/space
needed to run it?

-- 
Joshua E. Randall                       randall-joshua@yale.edu
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:24:44 EST
From: <TMS139@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Re: New Judge?
 <1ed032INNa33@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU> <68ATBWRW@cc.swarthmore.edu>
 <1992Nov18.231741.6664@u.washington.edu>

It's really great that everybody's pulling together like this.  I've just
recently found out about "The Judge," and this whole situation reminds me of
what I read about the Diplomacy World reorganization.  I like the specific-
variant-judge proposal; here's a new twist (I have no idea if it's feasible):

Create a press-distributor, a separate entity to receive/send broadcasts.

There it is, reject it at leisure :)(-+><

---Me too!  Ken, do you like white or blue in Penn State?
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: holthaus@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (James R. Holthaus)
Subject: Re: Imminent death of the Net predicted; film at 11
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 08:28:18 GMT

The idea to hope for other sites to host the judge sounds okay.  Is the
code for the adjudicator available for other sites? 
-- 
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more * Jim Holthaus
complex, and more violent.  It takes a touch of    * james-holthaus@uiowa.edu
genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the   *
opposite direction." -- E. F. Schumacher           *
From: lokendr@ecf.toronto.edu (LO KENDRICK)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: not-so-standard variants
Date: 24 Nov 92 04:56:09 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility

In an effort to introduce a bit of variety in our judge games, I have
started several games on the Judges in some rather different variants.

On the Washington Judge, game purity has begun.  Observers are welcome;
the game is being played in the pure variant.

On the EFF Judge, game italia is looking for players.  The game is
being played in the fleet_rome variant;  the standard variant with a
twist -- Italy has a fleet instead of an army in Rome.  List italia
for details.

Also on the EFF Judge, there are openings in game guerre.  All levels  of
of play are welcome; the game is played on a standard map, white-press
(open) no partial, gunboat.

All games have Monday-Friday processing.  Good luck to all.

Kendrick
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: khumphre@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Keith Humphreys)
Subject: Stop Ruining the Game
Summary: Longtime Diplomacy Player Angry 
Organization: Dept. of Psychology, Univ. of Illinois, Urbana
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 16:41:16 GMT

I have been playing the judge moderated game "Marengo" for 14 
game years and am quite upset by a recent trend, which is for
players to drop out and be replaced by people who conduct NO
diplomacy before submitting orders. Those of us who takle the
game seriously do all this diplomacy, and then some stranger
comes and decides he wants to play Tactics II.  My request is
that if you don't like wheeling-dealing, negotiating, or even
FOR CHRIST'S SAKE TALKING to other players DON'T be a replacement
player on a diplomacy game.  There are plenty of games where
you just move your little pieces around in clever tactical
ways: Squad Leader, Russian Campaign etc.  But that is not
what diplomacy is about and those of us who play the
game BECAUSE we like talking and negotiating more than 
moving pieces (imagine that!) would appreciate it if you
stuck to games that matched your proclivities.
Vittorio of Italy/Keith Humphreys of Illinois



Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu (Michael L. Le Houllier)
Subject: Diplomacy rule question
Reply-To: m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu (Michael L. Le Houllier)
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, N.H.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 21:06:09 GMT

Q:  Does the convoying fleet automatically suppport the landing army?
    If not, is there a way to do it?

Also, is there any way I can get a copy of the rules, either from
someone via email or from an ftp site?

Thanks and God bless,

-- 
 Michael Le Houllier           *  John 3:16  * Nov 12, 1991 - Dili      
 (m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu.us) *  Remember: June 4, 1989 - Beijing
 Plymouth State Women's Soccer - #2 in the nation (Div. 3)  (15-1-2)
 Great job this season girls.  Get U MASS Dartmouth back next year!!!!
From: jason@Think.COM (Jason Kolb)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Ken's retirement
Date: 18 Nov 1992 18:10:20 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rose.think.com

I have only been a washington "member" for maybe two weeks,
but I must say that I have deep admiration for the creator of
the adjucator.  I must concede ignorance when it actually 
comes to showing this appreciation.  My thought was that the judge
just ran on its own and the software took care of everything....
what can I say, I'm only a mechanical engineer.  
I also was unaware of the T-shirt "entry fee".  I know it's not
the actual payment Ken was looking for---it just would have 
been a nice gesture on the gamers point to give back to Ken what
has been given to them.
If nothing else, maybe Ken's departure will make us realize
not to take such accomplishments for granted in the future.
I know that if I received the lack of appreciation that Ken
has received, that I wouldn't want to run this thing anymore either.
I haven't a clue to how long Ken has been involved in this,
but the damage has already been done and you can't just
replace what the Washington judge meant to over a
thousand people, me included.

(A very belated) Thanks, Ken.

Jason Kolb
Thinking Machines Corporation
From: randall-joshua@yale.edu (Joshua Randall)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Re: Diplomacy Adjuciator
Date: 20 Nov 1992 14:09:51 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

In article <qlz1yt@rpi.edu> nautilus@lachesis.acm.rpi.edu (John M. Twilley) writes:
>To begin with, show me the IRC client that wil support:
>
>"Turkey jumps up and down screaming at Russia."
>"Russia says, 'The Black Sea is mine!!!'"
>"Russia laughs evilly."
>
>More of the 'body cues' can be expressed through MUDs than on IRC,and
>with a dedicated MUD, you won't be distracted by non-Dip traffic.

Come now, let's not have this degenerate into a MUD vs. IRC debate.  Both
platforms have their merits.  Please, remain focussed on the topic at hand
and not on petty arguments.

-- 
Joshua E. Randall                       randall-joshua@yale.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: kovar@world.std.com (David C Kovar)
Subject: New judge running with thanks to the EFF
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 21:25:05 GMT

		There's a new judge in town ....

  The Electronic Frontier Foundation has kindly provided a machine
for running a new North American judge. The judge is now open for
business, with the following condition:

	Only moderated games will be allowed.

  Ken, and the U Washington judge, burned out under the load and
I would like to spare myself and this judge the same fate. I am
considering other conditions, but I'd prefer to wait and see how
things go and let the players control themselves rather than
imposing control from above. (Ie, I don't really want to go
hack a lot of code at the moment and I think you all are pretty
ok people and basically trustworthy.)

  I would like to keep the number of games below ten until after
Christmas to give us a chance to shake things out. Anyone
who decides to moderate a game is asked to respect this limit.
After Christmas, assuming everything goes well, we can raise
the limit.

  I am not going to copy any information over from the Washington
judge, so you must re-register if you want to use this judge.

  I am currently taking requests for the moderator of the first
game on the new judge. I would like the game to be named "lowe"
and the second to be named "eff". After that, it is in your hands.
Please do not create any games until you check with me. Thanks!

  Now, the important part:

	judge@morrolan@eff.org		- Judge's address
	judge-request@morrolan.eff.org
		and			- Admin addresses
	jdr@morrolan.eff.org

  Please do *not* send me mail at this account (kovar@world.std.com).
All Diplomacy related mail should go to judge-request@morrolan.eff.org.
Thanks.

  Enjoy!

-David Kovar

Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: nautilus@lachesis.acm.rpi.edu (John M. Twilley)
Subject: Re: Diplomacy Adjuciator
Organization: The Voice of Fate
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 01:49:53 GMT

In article <1ejd5vINN31f@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU> randall-joshua@yale.edu (Joshua Randall) writes:
>In article <qlz1yt@rpi.edu> nautilus@lachesis.acm.rpi.edu (John M. Twilley) writes:
>>To begin with, show me the IRC client that wil support:
>>
>>"Turkey jumps up and down screaming at Russia."
>>"Russia says, 'The Black Sea is mine!!!'"
>>"Russia laughs evilly."
>>
>>More of the 'body cues' can be expressed through MUDs than on IRC,and
>>with a dedicated MUD, you won't be distracted by non-Dip traffic.
>
>Come now, let's not have this degenerate into a MUD vs. IRC debate.  Both
>platforms have their merits.  Please, remain focussed on the topic at hand
>and not on petty arguments.

I was not putting IRC down -- I was simply trying to demonstrate the
possible benefits of using a MUD instead of PBEM for Diplomacy.
I am experienced in designing CMC's, and know a little bit about
how they work.  I thought I would contribute to the discussion, that's
all.  I assumed that was part of the 'topic at hand'.
 
*sigh*  Anyway.  I can think of a few ideas on integrating
Diplomacy into a MUD -- if anyone is interested, please
send me email, and I will send you my 'wish list'...

>-- 
>Joshua E. Randall                       randall-joshua@yale.edu

Jack.
-- 
John M. Twilley             | It's only premarital sex if 
nautilus@acm.rpi.edu        | you're going to get married.
twilley@dewey.nusc.navy.mil |                --anonymous
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: kovar@world.std.com (David C Kovar)
Subject: Re: New game "first" starting on EFF judge
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 18:55:35 GMT

  I removed the games "first" and "second" from the EFF judge. Hopefully
this isn't a sign of things getting off to a bad start. In my initial post
I said that I wanted the first two games called "lowe" and "eff" in thanks
to the person who got everything rolling and kept it rolling for so long,
and in thanks to the EFF, who are helping to keep things rolling.

  If anyone would like to moderate either one of these two games, please
go ahead and create them. They should not be restrictive and they should
be something relatively standard. 

  After those two games are off and rolling, you're welcome to create
whatever other games you want, as long as the number of games stays below
10 for the time being. I really want to make sure that everything is working
smoothly before we try to run a lot of games on it.

-David



Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
From: meb@sally.acns.nwu.edu (Mark Brodsky)
Subject: Constantinople answered
Reply-To: mark-brodsky@nwu.edu
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:52:52 GMT

Thank you, for you responces to my question.
From: arkoff@lclark.edu (Gary Arkoff)
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy
Subject: Re: Constantinople
Date: 17 Nov 92 19:52:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Nov17.195203.29613
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR

In article <1992Nov17.164816.3075@news.acns.nwu.edu> mark-brodsky@nwu.edu writes:
>
>	What exactly are the movement rules in regards to constantinople?  
>Can an army pass throught constantinople from Ankra to Bulgaria?

yes

> Can a fleet  
>pass from the Black sea to the Aegean sea? Thanks much.

yes
-- 
I like pork.  Especially pork chops.  *An anymonous student comment made
                                      *on the comment board in the cafeteria
Gary L. Arkoff  arkoff@lclark.edu     *at Lewis and Clark College.
Newsgroups: rec.games.diplomacy