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Approved-By:  Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.l-hcap
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 02:01:15 EST
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 3024

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 3024

                         Thursday, November 19, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******


                               Police Response
                              New User!!!!!!!!
                                 Re: Hello?
                                Re: Education
                                  Bravo!!!!
                                Cards In Bars
                                  Re: TTDS
                         Fall Pa. AgBell Conference
                          Defining the upper case D
                                   ACTORS


                                ******


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                              Bill McGarry (Moderator)
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Subject: Police Response
From: Pam.Richardson@f75.n375.z1.fidonet.org (Pam Richardson)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:375/75 - Pam's, Montgomery AL


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

Daniel,

Friday November 06 1992 02:20, Daniel Laflin wrote to Felix Game:

 FG>> I am reading this and I am wondering if Deaf signers would not
 FG>> be able to prevent this sort of ignorant misunderstanding if
 FG>> they wore medic alert bracelets like diabetics, etc, do? Some
 FG>> message like 'I am deaf and talk with my hands; don't cuff me'
 FG>> would at least alert any caring peace officer to the fact that
 FG>> he has an unusual "client" on his hands.
..

 > The bracelet would help AFTER the cuffing, after cuffing, and checking
 > to be sure the persons no threat, then the police should by law have to
 > uncuff one, else be SUED for civil rights violation.

Remember, ANY body can wear these bracelets if one was designed for
the hearing-impaired.  Plus, this would not require any type of
medical assistance, so some little thief might get some bright
ideas to wear one of these just in case (s)he gets caught.

 > If those who sign think they have it tough... well as a lipreader, ive
 > had police stop me at night, and their spotlight makes it impossiable to
 > lipread their words.

Maybe it needs to be implemented on the front of the driver's
license in this case, since they ask for it immediately.

Pam

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!375!75!Pam.Richardson
Internet: Pam.Richardson@f75.n375.z1.fidonet.org



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Subject: New User!!!!!!!!
From: John.Grant@p0.f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (John Grant)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/26.0 - SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

Greeting to you all, I would like to come on and say a big HELLO
and hope you guys will welcome me into this echo! I am deaf, was
born deaf since my parents are deaf also. I have grew up in Western
Pennsylvania School for the Deaf. I dropped out of W.P.S.D.  and
took up G.E.D. and passed. I went to a hearing college for my
psychology studies. Guess what?   Yup I dropped out.  It's too hard
for me to go thru in hearing college. Perhap if I went to a deaf
college or something like that, it would be easier??? I dont know.
Oh well Let me tell you something about myself so you can get to
know me <grin>

I am 21 years old, 6 feet tall, reddish hair, 190, blue and brown
eyes (coming from family's hereditary), Know sign language well. I
have to know sign language since my parents are deaf HA HA HA

I have some other deaf member in my family too, My grandparents are
deaf.  So I am the third generation of the deaf family. It would be
interesting when its time for me to have my own kids, would they be
deaf????   probably so! Anyway I have been blabbling too much
already. So Its good to see everyone on this echo. I have download
your messages so I can read it later off line.  This is my long
distance call. I am from Worthington PA.   just about 45 minutes
north of Pittsburgh PA     (Hey Stu, I know I didnt inform you that
I moved. I did....Sorry)

So I guess I better go.....Will be talking to you guys later!!!!!!

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!26.0!John.Grant
Internet: John.Grant@p0.f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org



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Subject: Re: Hello?
From: Hugues.Blanchet@p0.f136.n167.z1.fidonet.org (Hugues Blanchet)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:167/136.0 - Ab.'s Place, Montreal PQ


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

 -=> Quoting Margaret Overath to Hugues Blanchet <=-

 MO> Hello Hugues,

Hello Margaret!

 MO> I didn't realize my words have caused such reaction from you. I wonder
 MO> why that is?

I'll explain my point and maybe you'll understand better, ok?

Why I don't agree on being labeled as a "Deafie"?

For the same reason I don't agree on people who are fat that label
themselves as "Fat", those who are short who label themselves as
"Short", those who are bald who label themselves as "Bald", those who
have dark skin who label themselves as "Negroes", etc, etc...

That is the reason I just don't agree with a label because when you
adopt such a label, I believe it's because there IS a reason and
you don't feel as a *normal* HUMAN BEING like every other person.
When we label ourselves, it's because we feel apart of the *normal*
society and in my case, I DO NOT and will NEVER feel apart from
ANYBODY ELSE, may they be short, fat, bald, dark skin or hearing
people!!!

We are ALL HUMAN BEINGS in the very first place and THAT is how I
think of myself, as a HUMAN BEING!

 MO> I am human, like all human beings we like to idenitify
 MO> ourselves,

Not so Margaret!!!  SOME people identify theirselves, sure, but not ALL
human beings!  I'd even go farther and say that a LOT of them do not
identify theirselves with any kind of label even if they are Chineese,
Greek or Italian!!!  There is labeling and Identity, both are
completely different.  Yes, I may be a french
Canadian, but that doesn't label me PHYSICALLY!  It only tells about
my origins not my PHYSICAL SELF!!!  When we label ourselves
PHYSICALLY, we them FEEL ourselves being apart of the *normal* human
beings.  However, we don't feel apart if we say that we are French,
Dutch, Greek, Jewish, Chineese or American!  It only identifies our
ORIGINS, not our physical self!

 MO> are.  So what is wrong with idenfitying ourselves as DEAF???  My ears
 MO> don't work perfectly, I can tell people excuse me I didn't catch that
 MO> ....with a good reason! I can't hear!

If you were fat, would you identify yourself as being "Fat"?  Because it
IS the same kind of reasoning Margie!!!  My reaction was quite normal
I'd say because I just don't think people should stick such a label to
themselves.  If they do, they just don't feel like all other *normal*
human beings....

I understand your feelings and I respect your opinion Margie, but I
just don't agree.

Greetings from the chilling north! (Brrrrrr... Cold here!!!) <GGG>

Hugues

... Sorry, the Dog ate my Blue Wave packet.
--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!167!136.0!Hugues.Blanchet
Internet: Hugues.Blanchet@p0.f136.n167.z1.fidonet.org



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Subject: Re: Education
From: Hugues.Blanchet@p0.f136.n167.z1.fidonet.org (Hugues Blanchet)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:167/136.0 - Ab.'s Place, Montreal PQ


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

 -=> Quoting Jennifer Satterwhite to Hugues Blanchet <=-

 JS> Sorry, Hugues, I got you confused will "All".   <grin>

Or Alphonzo? <G>

Hello Jennie!!!

 JS> Good point.  So, are you saying that oralism is the route the schools
 JS> should take?

The very first one, YES!

 JS> There is a deaf community (whether it is a 'popular'
 JS> thing or not is another issue), so shouldn't the deaf children be
 JS> exposed to both "cultures"?

Sure there is a deaf community Jennifer.  There are also communities
for the fat people, the skinny people, the dark skin people
and so on....  I'm sure you get the drift...<G>  I just don't believe
in such *communities* because in reality, these aren't communities but
simply regroupments of people who label themselves (see message to Margie)
as being apart of the society.

I wouldn't say "culture" but "language".   Yes, there is nothing
wrong with being exposed to a second language as long as it remains as
it is, a second language.  My mother tongue is french but I also have
been exposed to the english language and it enables me
to communicate with more people.  I'd be very sad if I
only knew french because I wouldn't be able to write to anybody
here....:-(

What I think is that we should all have the same language as the
majority we are living with.  We should NOT set ourselves APART of the
majority with who we are living with.

 JS> I am just playing devil's advocate here,
 JS> I'm not trying to start a war. <Grin>

Come on Jennie!!!  I know you ain't trying to start anything!!!  I
just gave my two cents and you answered, that's all.  Besides, me
think you have a nice sense of humor to...<G>

 JS> Whatcha think?

Well... as a tol' ya, a jis' don' think we both can hav' a wa'! A
believ'z ya too much of a nice lady (Now don' be jealous Annie
an' Karen!!!  <GGGGG>)  A really 'preciate bright wimen ya see?

 JS> BTW, you said that you are totally deaf now.  Do you think that you
 JS> could've succeeded in oralism if you were preligually deaf?  Just
 JS> curious...

No doubt about it.  My parents and family are all hearing people.
Even though I am deaf, they all consider me as their brother(son)
and they would have considered only one option the moment they would
have known I was deaf; Oralism.  It would have been the only way
for me to fully integrate the society and they wouldn't have settled
for less.

Take care Jennie!

Cheerio from Montreal (where the thermometer is actually at 30
degrees Farenheit...brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!)

Hugues

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!167!136.0!Hugues.Blanchet
Internet: Hugues.Blanchet@p0.f136.n167.z1.fidonet.org



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Subject: Bravo!!!!
From: Hugues.Blanchet@p0.f136.n167.z1.fidonet.org (Hugues Blanchet)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:167/136.0 - Ab.'s Place, Montreal PQ


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

 -=> Quoting Daniel Laflin to Sam Calvert <=-

Hi Daniel!!!

 DL> I lipread and I consider anyone
 DL> Deaf who can ONLY communicate via sign DOUBLE Disabled.

Daniel, I've noticed more and more that they (the ones that
only use signing) are the ONLY ones who think they are a Culture
because they are deaf.  Maybe the reality is that they just don't
accept the fact that they have to make an effort (i.e. learn
lipreading) to be part of the MAJORITY.  It's called INTEGRATION.

 DL> Just how many as a pct of population do you think know Sign?

;-)... This is one hell of a good point Daniel!!!  To think that a
majority should adopt to a minority is very poor reasoning indeed!!!

 DL> As to this Culture Thing... Deaf is a Disability, NOT a culture, im
 DL> sure a number here will jump omn me, however, I would not classify Deaf
 DL> as a culture, etc...

"A number"?....Probably very few...;-)  A lot of people on ST are
open minded like you!!!

 DL> So spare me from the culture etc thing... I think its a attempt to
 DL> Hide from the REAL World.

As long as they'll think deafness is a culture, they won't only BE apart
from the REAL world, everybody will also TREAT them as being apart from
the REAL world!!!

Your posts were great Daniel!

Best regards from your northern friends in Montreal,

Hugues

... Not tonight, dear.  I have a modem.
--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!167!136.0!Hugues.Blanchet
Internet: Hugues.Blanchet@p0.f136.n167.z1.fidonet.org



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Subject: Cards In Bars
From: Gladie.Farquharson@f550.n250.z1.fidonet.org (Gladie Farquharson)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:250/550 - Silver & Gold Onlin, Toronto ON


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

HELLO.

I am new to the BBS systems.  I am a 29 year old womyn. I am hearing and
live in Toronto, Canada.

I first saw signing at the Michigan Women's Music Festival in 1988 and
decided to take some night courses in ASL at Sheridan College
Brampton, to learn how to communicate. It has been a few years
since I took those courses and I am now a bit rusty at signing.

A man approached me in a bar last week and offered me a card.  The card
introduced him as a deaf person and he sold these cards for a living and
that he was asking for contributions.  How do you feel about that?

Also, I wonder about the difference between verbal(?) english and ASL
english as mentioned in the "help with signing" messages.  Would it
be better if I wrote messages in verbal (?) english or in my guess at
ASL english?   Does that make sense?

No offense meant if i put my foot in my mouth.  As I said, I'm new at
this.

Gladie.

___
 X OLX 2.1 TD X Life is a pool game.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!250!550!Gladie.Farquharson
Internet: Gladie.Farquharson@f550.n250.z1.fidonet.org



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Subject: Re: TTDS
From: Jay.Croft@f421.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Jay Croft)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:109/421 - Twilight Clone Mac, Rockville MD


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

 > Culture... I could go on... Deafness is a DEFECT in a Normal persons
 > body, and therefore a DISABLITY... your hearings shot, its same as

Well, that's one viewpoint.  My viewpoint is that my hearing is adequate, and
that others have TOO MUCH hearing!

  Jay "I'm not defective!" Croft

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!421!Jay.Croft
Internet: Jay.Croft@f421.n109.z1.fidonet.org



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Subject: Fall Pa. AgBell Conference
From: John.Linko@p0.f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (John Linko)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/26.0 - SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

I attended the fall conference of the Pennsylvania (Marian Quick)
chapter of AGBell this past weekend. The topic this month was
"When They Grow Up". The featured speaker was Judy Simser, a speech
therapist at the Children's Hospital of Eastern Ontario in Ottawa.
The focus of Ms. Simser's talk was the potential difficulties
that deaf children may have in developing educational and social
skills, and how parents can best address them. The audience was
composed mostly of parents, with some teachers and therapists as
well.

The basic message of the presentation was that deaf children must
be treated THE SAME in terms of their personal and educational
goals in order to succeed. Ms. Simser discussed dealing with
a child's own responsibilities, whether they range from sports
to getting notes and homework journals reviewed or updated, to
college and career decision-making. In short, if you do everything
for a deaf child, he/she will never learn to do it themselves.
Sounds kind of familiar, doesn't it?

Ms. Simser's message seemed to be reinforced by a panel of three
deaf adults that answered questions from the audience for most
of the afternoon. The questions ranged from acceptance by hearing
peers to dating and social interaction. What struck me about the
answers were how applicable they can be to anyone's formative
years. About acceptance: "The way I looked at it was, 'If they can't
accept me just because I can't hear, then I don't need them as
friends'". It's the same way I looked at other kids who couldn't
accept me as a friend because I was overweight.

The message I got from the panel discussion was this: Parents are
so overwhelmed by the "stigma" of deafness in their children that
they overlook the simple solutions to the same problems that
the child would have if he/she were hearing.
The biggest message I got was a couple of sentences on a sheet of
paper, which I will give on a separate post. JL

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!26.0!John.Linko
Internet: John.Linko@p0.f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org



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Subject: Defining the upper case D
From: John.Linko@p0.f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (John Linko)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/26.0 - SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

At the fall conference of the Pa. chapter of AGBell, an organization
called "Creative Access" distributed a flyer encouraging interested
persons contact their group regarding an initiative to encourage
movie theaters to open-caption first run films.

Creative Access is "an organization created to assure visibility,
accessibility, opportunity, and inclusion of Deaf* people in arts
and culture". They can be reached at 2014 Fitzwater Street,
Philadelphia PA 19146, or at 215-735-5851 TDD/Voice.

The greatest thing about the flyer, however, was a three-sentence
explanation for their use of the upper case D in "Deaf". It goes
like this:

"Use of upper case "D" signifies membership in a unique minority
culture reflected by its own language and rich history. At no time
and in no way does this imply exclusion of any group. All events
and programs welcome deaf, hard of hearing and hearing people of
all ethnic and racial backgrounds. Knowledge of sign language is
never a requirement for enjoyment and participation."

In short, one does not have to belong to a string band to enjoy
watching the Mummers' Parade. A culture is inclusionary, not
exclusionary. Folks like Harlan Lane and James Womack should
pay more attention to this kind of thinking. We would all get
along better. JL

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!26.0!John.Linko
Internet: John.Linko@p0.f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org



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Subject: ACTORS
From: Laurel.Gealt@f201.n273.z1.fidonet.org (Laurel Gealt)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:273/201 - US Telematics, Yardley PA


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

Yes, if I were a deaf actress, I would want to work.  But we live
in a society where the person who gets a job is the person who can
do the best work, not the person who some government official
decides "needs" or "deserves" the job.  That is democracy and free
enterprise -- and the countries where jobs and money go to the
people whom the government thinks "need" them always turn into
horrible, oppressive dictatorships.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!273!201!Laurel.Gealt
Internet: Laurel.Gealt@f201.n273.z1.fidonet.org



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                                ******

                  End of Issue # 3024 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU