HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dpe@inel.gov (Don Palmrose)
Subject: Re: What is NTDS?
Organization: INEL EG&G Idaho
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 16:33:28 GMT


From dpe@inel.gov (Don Palmrose)

In article <BtyIqH.94n@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, jrk@tcs.com (John Koper) writes:
> 
> 
> From jrk@tcs.com (John Koper)
> 
> Can anyone give me a brief description of NTDS?  I belive
> it's some kind of protocol used in the military and I think
> it stands for "Navy Tactical Data System"?  I tried archie
> but had no luck finding anything.
> 
> thanks in advance,
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> John Koper				| jrk@tcs.com
> Software Engineer			| 2121 Allston Way, Berkeley, CA 94704
> Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc.	| (510) 649-3592
> 
> 

It is the name given to the total information system on US warships for the
proper display and manipulation of the information coming in from the ship's
sensors (ALL of them, radar, sonar, ecm, etc.) and other ships and aircraft.
Through NTDS the senior officers of the ship decide how to engage the enemy
and helps those who coordinate the operation of the weapon systems which are
actually engaging the targets.

Since you work in Berkeley and I still believe UC-B has NROTC, they should
have a Naval Science text book that gives the basic thought behind NTDS.

Hope this helps.

Don Palmrose
"I'd rather not serve on a ship designed to sink...."



> 
========== long legal disclaimer follows, press n to skip ===========

Neither the United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering
Laboratory or any of their employees, makes any warranty, whatsoever,
implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility regarding any
information, disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe
privately owned rights.  No specific reference constitutes or implies
endorsement, recommendation, or favoring by the United States
Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory.  The views and
opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of the
United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
and shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes.

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: rich@quik.clearpoint.com
Subject: Re: is the A-10 going bye-bye?
Organization: Clearpoint Research Corp, Hopkinton MA 01748
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 16:28:41 GMT


From rich@quik.clearpoint.com



Does anybody remember the New York ANG 177th TFW? The Boys From Syracuse. 
The tried to make the F-16 a ground attack plane with some pretty terrible
results. Aviation Week had a whole report when they they traded their A-10's
for F-16's. They also reported their combat record in Desert Storm. 
Not to good. The 30mm belly mounted cannon could not hit the side of a barn.
The Air Force tried the same thing with the F-4 in Vietnam with the same 
results. The F-16 with current avionics was not designed for this role. The 
pilots had a hard time finding their targets. I don't remember the exact 
statistics, but over or close to half Iraqi armour was taken out by A-10's. 
The Air Force never wanted the plane to begin with because it actually did
what is was designed for. Now their making a pure dog fighter into a ground
attack plane. Does this make any sense? If the Air Force wants a ground
attack plane, and a dog fighter, tell them to buy the F/A-18. 

Rich 

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: fred@cc.ysu.edu (Fred Ullom)
Subject: Military Tartans
Organization: Youngstown State University
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 16:29:11 GMT


From fred@cc.ysu.edu (Fred Ullom)

Hi,
sci.military looks like a reasonable group to ask this question of:-)

I am a handweaver and recently have been weaving Scottish Tartan fabrics.
It was brought to my attention recently that many branches of the US	
military have also used tartans from time to time. I understand that there	is a US Navy tartan, US Marine tartan, and a US forces(?) tartan. I am
looking for specifically the weaving setts which is a record or the thread	counts for each of the colors in order for such tartan patterns.
I did find in a book the thread counts for a tartan worn specifically by 
the crew of the Polaris submarine in the late '60's which I found interesting.

I would appreciate any information anybody may have as to where I might
find the info I'm looking for.

Thanks,
-Fred

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------        
Fred S. Ullom                                                                   
tacon019@ysub.ysu.edu                                                           
Youngstown State University                                                     
------------------------------------------------------------------------        

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: Japanese F-15 upgrade
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:10:10 GMT


From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)

In article <BuF2ys.83q@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> Urban F <urf@ki.icl.se> writes:

>The Japanese will modify their F-15:s to carry 6 Sparrows + 6
>Sidewinders. Anyone know how? Putting Sparrows on the wing
>stations instead of tanks should be easy, and there are outer
>wing station, but they are now only for ECM pods aren't they, but
>they could be modified to take Sidewinders, couldn't they?

What was the name of the pulp fighter pilot hero? Hunter? The
one who flies the F-16XL? He put (get this) 50 sidewinders on
the wings  (!). Talk about garbage fiction!  9-) (Found it on
the bookrack at Kroger..)




-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: <AI4CPHYW%MIAMIU.BITNET@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject: Order of Nuking
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 14:46:07 GMT


From <AI4CPHYW%MIAMIU.BITNET@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>

Hey Gang:

I was over in the alt.folklore.urban newsgroup and came across a thread
about "Who would be nuked, and in what order would it happen, during a war."
In other words, what could the order of the ex-USSR's nuclear target list be.
(Would D.C. or Cheyanne Mountain be first, and so on)

Well, this has me kind of interested, in a macabre kind of way, so I figured
I'd ask you all.  Who would get nuked first, second and so on, (or would it
all happen at once)?  Any conjecture or whatever would be welcome.

                      -Alec D. Isaacson
                       AI4CPHYW @ miamiu.acs.muohio.edu
                       isaacson @ rogue.acs.muohio.edu (NeXt Mail)
                       Miami University, Oxford, OH
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only a barbarian would eat chive cream cheese and blackberry jam on the
same bagel.                          -Spenser

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Top armor (was Re: Self-forged fragment munitions)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:09:13 GMT


From viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)

fangs@leland.Stanford.EDU (John Wesley Lewellen IV) writes:

>Here's a little more pure speculation:

>Remote-control tanks.  Remember Atari's old Tank Battle
>arcade game?  Construct a very heavily armored / protected
>command post, and use remote operators to drive / fight
>the tanks.

	Don't forget that your signals can be jammed, and it would
most likely take just a bit of tuning to get a beam-rider missile
mounted on the opposing tanks or aircraft that would seriously annoy
your remote crews.  Wires are too easily broken and limit range, and
the radio presents more detection/jamming problems than I care to think
about.  It's a nice idea, but by the time you get it workable you'll
have the product of another game: Ogre.

	(For those confused, an Ogre is a computer-AI commanded tank,
no crew, incredibly large, and quite destructive.  Thankfully, a game.)

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"There'll be angels on Ariels in leather>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | and chrome, Ridin' down from heaven    >
<viking@iastate.edu      | just to carry me home." -- R. Thompson >
< ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee. >

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: 20mm ammo for Phalanx (was Tracers)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 13:41:23 GMT


From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)

In article <BtGJ75.yo@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> billb@owlnet.rice.edu (William Stenson Blackwell) writes:
>
>From billb@owlnet.rice.edu (William Stenson Blackwell)
>
|In article <BtC4Ks.5IL@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM|, ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:
||| 
||| Wasn't that the Hague Convention that outlawed expanding pro-
||| jectiles in war? It was before or during the boer war. Expanding 
||| ammo is widely used by police, Hague Convention or no Hague 
||| Convention.

|It was just after.  The boers had gotten ahold of a few empty ammo cases from
|the Dum-Dum armory in India.  This is the selfsame outfit that came up with
|the dum-dum round (i.e. no outer jacket) that the British used in India
|for the same reasons that the Americans switched to the .45 ACP (?).  As far
|as teflon-coated bullets go, the reason that they are effective is that the
|teflon reduces friction wherever the bullet goes, not just inside the gun.

The original dum dums were jacketed bullets with a hole punched in 
the nose. They fired them out of the .303 Enfield. 

What I've read of the teflon-coated bullets says that the reason they 
penetrate body armor (the original use was to penetrate car bodies
for police use) was that they were made from a hard metal. The teflon 
was for the protection of the pistol bore.






-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: CMSgt Mike Bergman <bergman@afnews.pa.af.mil>
Subject: AF News Svc 09/03/92
Organization: Hq Air Force News Agency/SCC
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 16:37:00 GMT


From CMSgt Mike Bergman <bergman@afnews.pa.af.mil>


695.  Homestead move updates
696.  Addiction seminar
				   &    &    &
				   &    &    &
				   &    &    &
695.  Homestead move updates
     WASHINGTON (AFNS) -- The 726th Air Control Squadron, Homestead AFB, Fla.,
will temporarily move to Shaw AFB, S.C., in the latest Homestead unit move
following Hurricane Andrew which struck Aug. 24.
     Homestead was virtually destroyed during the storm which packed winds in
excess of 140 mph.  The president announced Sept. 1 that Homestead would be
rebuilt, however, cost figures and a timeframe for the reconstruction have not
been determined.
     The 726th Air Control Squadron's primary function is air defense
management and air traffic identification.  They also assist in air rescue
operations.
     The unit will continue to provide radar control for 9th Air Force
operations as well as training for F-16s assigned to Shaw's 363rd Fighter
Wing.
     The 309th Fighter Squadron from Homestead has been moved to Shaw.  Shaw
was chosen as a relocation site because it has the facilities and space
necessary for equipment storage and the necessary housing in the local area.
     Homestead's 307th and 308th Fighter Squadrons have been temporarily moved
to Moody AFB, Ga.  The 31st Fighter Wing will remain at Homestead.
     In its second week of relief operations, the Air Force continues to fly
equipment and supplies into south Florida, which took the brunt of the storm
and suffered an estimated $30 billion in damages.
     Air Mobility Command C-5, C-141, C-130 and KC-135 aircraft have flown 344
missions, transporting 4,645 passengers and 7,735 tons of cargo into the area.
     Meanwhile, in the Pacific, AMC is ferrying tons of relief supplies to
Guam, which sustained heavy damage when Typhoon Omar struck Aug. 27.
     As of Sept. 2, AMC transports have flown 25 missions delivering more than
13,000 tons of supplies and 400 people to aid in the recovery efforts.


696.  Addiction symposium
     SAN ANTONIO (AFNS) -- The 4th Annual Addictions Symposium, hosted by the
Wilford Hall Medical Center, will be conducted Oct. 5-9 at the Villa Rosa
Gymnasium in San Antonio.
     Thirty-five hours towards continuing education have been approved by the
Texas Association on Alcoholism and Drug Abuse Counselors.
     The symposium is free and open to the public.  Registration and
information is available by calling DSN 554-7615 or commercial (512) 670-7615.
     Space is limited to 300 attendees.


-- 
         
      // \\
    //     \\                    Air Force News Agency 
   |         |               Kelly Air Force Base, Texas, USA
   \\  {*}  //                   bergman@afpan.pa.af.mil  
   \  CMSgt  /      ___________________ /____________________________________
   \  Mike   /   
   \ Bergman /
     \     / 



Newsgroups: sci.military
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: light aircraft in strike role
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:31:37 GMT


From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)

In article <BuBLE9.G01@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:
>I wrote:

>>The Americans did this to Japanese air bases during WW2.. Send a 
>>bomber at night to drop _one_ bomb once every hour or so..

>I think you have this backwards. The Japanese did this to American
>bases. If you have a reference for American bombers doing this to
>Japanese bases, I'd be interested in seeing it. Generally the 
>Americans didn't mount raids unless they expected to do substantial
>damage.

Martin Caidin's book "Zero". Told from the Japanese point of
view. Very interesting indeed.

Early in the New Guinea campaigns the Americans tried to bomb 
Lae and other Japanese airbases with huge loss. The American 
pilots admitted that often they didn't aim their bombs since 
they didn't know where the Japanese airplanes _were_. 


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !

Newsgroups: sci.military,soc.history
From: military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)
Subject: 50 Years Ago: Thursday, 3 September, 1942
Followup-To: soc.history
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:06:35 GMT


From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)

Thursday, 3 September, 1942

German troops reach the Volga south of Stalingrad, and there is fighting in
the city's western suburbs.  Soviet resistance is firm everywhere on
the front.

Rommel's withdrawal from the Alam el Halfa battle hastens.  A night attack
by the 2nd New Zealand division is defeated, however.

The USA, Great Britain, Australia, New Zealand, and Free France conclude a
mutual Lend-Lease agreement.

Australia begins an "Austerity Campaign," enacting taxes on alcohol and
tobacco and restricting various forms of entertainment.

--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--
Bill Thacker			            military@att.att.com
Send submissions for "50 Years Ago" to military-request@att.att.com

"The standard of training of the Eighth Army formations was such that I
was not prepared to loose them headlong into the enemy." - General Bernard
Montgomery
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: sjameson@fergie.dnet.ge.com (Stephen M Jameson)
Subject: Re: Question on Aurora
Organization: General Electric Advanced Technology Labs
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:49:46 GMT


From sjameson@fergie.dnet.ge.com (Stephen M Jameson)

In article <Bu2BAK.10C@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> claris!qm!James_Zuchelli@decwrl.dec.com (James Zuchelli) writes:

>
>From claris!qm!James_Zuchelli@decwrl.dec.com (James Zuchelli)
>
>
>Since Aurora is a highly speculative craft, definately there is something
>there but who knows exactly what, what can one ask or post about it?  Since,
>it is a secret project is one free to post whatever one wants or are their 
>limits.
>
Since it is so secret that DoD is not even officially acknowledging its
existence, they can hardly complain if we talk about it.  This, of course, does
not apply to those who actually know things about it, and whose knowledge comes
from DoD under terms of a Classified Information Nondisclosure Agreement.

Disclaimer:  I know nothing whatsoever, classified or unclassified, about the
Aurora project, and neither does my employer.

--
Steve Jameson                           General Electric Aerospace 
sjameson@atl.ge.com                     Advanced Technology Laboratories
                                        Moorestown, New Jersey              
****************************************************************************
**  . . . but I do not love the sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow    **
**  for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory.  I love only that   **
**  which they defend . . .                                               **
**    -- Faramir, "The Two Towers"                                        **
****************************************************************************

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: Smoothbore Weapons
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 13:41:34 GMT


From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)

In article <BtGJ1n.s6@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:

|The DS projectile Bill refers to is the BRI sabot slug. They are made in
|a fairly soft lead alloy for sporting purposes, as well as a much harder
|"police" alloy, for anti-barricade work. These are DS only and seem to
|work best in rifled shotgun barrels. There is also a FSDS sabot slug on
|the market, made in France.

If memory serves me right the BRI slug was sold to the public in 
two forms: soft lead for choked shotguns and hard lead for use in 
unchoked (or even rifled) shotgun barrels. The hard lead alloy slug
would actually be squeezed in two at the waist if fired in a choked 
gun. The harder slug was desirable for hunting since it didn't de-
form as easily upon hitting the deer.







-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Subject: Re: Use of WWII Era Small Arms In Yugoslavia
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:24:16 GMT


From fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)

Interesting note:
 A local Motorcycle dealer was importing the soviet version
of BMW's WWII motorcycle w/or wo sidecar, the side car ver-
sion had not been changed since the soviets captured the
BMW factory and it came with the pintle mounts on the side
car for the MG34. The dealer had no idea what the extra hard-
ware was for and if I hadn't seen one set up at the armour
museum down at Ft Knox I wouldn't have either. A couple of
months later, after he talked to the British importer, he found
that the Soviets had not changed a single item in the WWII
production line and that included the MG mounts on the three
wheelers. (It would be a nice set up but 35 HP on a motorcycle
doesn't cut it for me but the $3500 price tag wasn't too bad).
This was back in 80 or 81 and I have never seen one on the 
street or whether they passed the EPA regs or not (probably
not) as the one I saw was a smoker.
-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
#1/XS1100LH	#2/10/10/92
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.belcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I DONT CARE IF I SOUND CONFUSED, I KNOW WHAT I MEAN !!!

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: rah@rampart.pa.dec.com (Robert Holt)
Subject: Re: Expansionist China
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 14:26:33 GMT


From rah@rampart.pa.dec.com (Robert Holt)

How well do Oz and Taiwan get along? Maybe the Asean states,
Oz, NZ, Taiwan, Vietnam, and South Korea need their own little
'NATO' to keep an eye on things.
/*-------------------------------------------------------+
 | Robert Holt - Digital Equipment Corp - Palo Alto, CA. |
 | Internet: rah@rampart.pa.dec.com                      |
 | UUCP:     ...!decwrl!rah                              |
 | DECnet:   TENAYA::RAH                                 |
 |                                                       |
 | "Conquer Tyrants. Fight Devils."                      |
 |                                                       |
 | Standard Disclaimers Apply...                         |
 +-------------------------------------------------------*/

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott)
Subject: Re: The German V-2 Rocket
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:05:36 GMT


From Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott)

In article <BuBLLC.GB3@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>
rlwst8+@pitt.edu (Robert L Williamson) writes:

> Why didn't the Germans just concentrate 
> all of their production efforts to building the V-2 and attacking London as
> opposed to even getting involved with a situation like the Battle of Britain

The Germans could have done a lot of things differently in WWII, but
didn't.  The V-2's weren't available in 1940 and even if they were,
they were too inaccurate to be used for anything other than terror,
very much like the Scuds in Desert Storm.  The point of the Battle of
Britain, supposedly, was to knock out the RAF.  V-2's were far too
inaccurate to be of any help doing that.  Eventually, the German
tactics were simply to send bombers over supported by massive groups of
fighters.  The British were supposed to rise to hit the raids and then
be knocked down by the fighters.  Didn't work that way though because
the British fighter pilots were ordered to avoid tangling with the
fighters and the Germans fighters didn't have enough range for more
than a few minutes of combat before they had to cut and run for home. 
Interestingly enough, this tactic of using bombers for bait was dragged
out and dusted off during the US strategic bombing of Germany but this
time it worked very well.  The bomber people don't like hearing that
though. :-)  I can't claim this view point as my own, I read it in a
recent book describing the success of the American fighters against the
Luftwaffe.  The big attrition of the Luftwaffe really didn't begin to
roll until Doolittle took over and ordered the fighters to go seek the
Germans out instead of hanging around the bombers waiting for them to
be attacked.  It's good reading.

Corky Scott

Newsgroups: sci.military