From: c34657b@saha.hut.fi (Tuomas Viljanen)
Subject: Re: World Culture and Western Culture
Organization: The Nibelungenlied Incorporated
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 09:21:58 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.005707.28066@u.washington.edu> yeonwook@hardy.u.washington.edu (Mark Choi) writes:
>In article <81263@ut-emx.uucp> vadim@bolvan.ph.utexas.edu (Vadim S. Kaplunovsky) writes:
>>In article <19785@ector.cs.purdue.edu> cutchin@cs.purdue.EDU (Steve Cutchin)  
>>writes, among other things:
>>>      What I did was select aspects of western culture; primarily mass 
>>>      destruction on a global scale
>>>      (the west has been great at mass destruction)
>>>      far 'superior' to other cultures.
>>
>>The "west" was pretty good at mass destruction, but not particularly.
>>Mongols were much better: when they didn't like some people, they just
>>killed them off.  They were quite good at environmental destruction too:
>>after they went through the Central Asia, nothing was left but the desert.

>Your are wrong in defending the horrors of western exploitation by pointing
>to other examples. It is utterly disgusting to compare modern day Western
>exploitation to an empire that existed nearly 600 years ago.

Oh, geeze, what a politically correct wiev ! So all atrocities ever done must,
by definition, have been practised by the evil, bloodthirsty, depraved etc.
Westerners ?

If your ancestors have been Mongols, yuo certainly do not like to have them
blamed for the atrocities committed by them, but still they have committed
atrocities, a cold fact. I would say it is by no means disgusting to compare
modern day Western exploitation to that of other civilizations in the past.
When SOME rationality and relativity applied, the scale is quite same.

>The Mongols,
>however large their exploitation, destroyed very little compared to the 
>Western world.

Utter bullshit. The Mongols managed to lay waste on more than a half of the
Eurasian continent, destroyed innumerable people, cities and cultures in the
meantime, just pillaged for the lust of pillaging, ane managed to enlarge the
Gobi desert a lot. They had, for example, a plan to turn the whole China and
all of its arble land into steppes, on which to feed their horses.

The Westernes did EXPLOIT the conquered areas. The Mongols just DEVASTATED.
Which is the greater evil ? I would say the latter.

>You cannot say that the "Mongols were much better".

Nope, but that's what you're suggesting, aren't you ?

>Do not say that the Mongols' exploitation of Central Asia, Eastern Europe,
>and East Asia is larger than the Western World's exploitation of East Asia,
>Southeast Asia, Africa, North American, South America, Latin America, 
>Austrailia, and virtually every other place.

No, the Mongols didn't exploit, they DID devastate ! 

> Now, THAT is called GLOBAL
>exploitation. However large the destruction left behind by the Mongols,
>it is nothing compared to the imperialistic Western Nations of the early

The scale is still quite the same. If the Mongols had had the same means of 
technology during the mIddle Ages the Westerners had during this century, their
devastation would have been much, much greater and pedantic than it already was
without them. Besides, the Westeners considered themselves to be heralds of the
new civilization, industrialists and teachers, not outright despots and con-
querors than the Mongols did themselves. That makes a great difference.

Still the westerners, despitre how much they exploited and took from the terr-
itories conquered, also enriched the local culture (yes, they did) and created
some new civilization instead of that destroyed. The Mongols just only 
destroyed, they didn't create _anything_ new.

> 21st century!

Do not, please, speak about an era which has not even yet begun !

>  --|--|      | Mark Yeon Wook Choi             

Tommy, whose ancestors have never conquered nor pillaged nor exploited any
foreign culture, but have just lived in peace in the North and only defended
their country.


  ++ Tuomas Viljanen                     ++ For a battle like Crecy, you do  ++
  ++ Lahderanta 20 A 19                  ++ not need a military genius like  ++
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