From: Leonard.Erickson@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Leonard Erickson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period vs. Filk (was Basic Courtesy)
Date: 30 Jul 92 08:38:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.712567015.F00005

In a message to Leonard Erickson <07-30-92 11:35> Suze Hammond wrote:

SH>  The problem here in the SCA is that by putting original, "period
SH>  feeling" songs into the category of filk you put them into a category
SH>  many SCAdians are automatically prejudiced against.

The SCA has to take the *existing* definition of filk. Anyone not already 
familiar with the "rules" regarding songs in the SCA isn't going to be aware 
of any "special" definition the SCA may give to "filk". If they know the 
word at all, they'll know the *fannish* meaning. The people with the 
prejudices need to learn that "filk" covers more than just the stuff they 
don't like.

SH>  Thus we must find another word for them, or lose the pleasure of them
SH>  in many instances. In my opinion this renders *mundane* definitions
SH>  of the word unusable to us, where they include "contrafait". (Which
SH>  is, BTW, a perfectly good word in itself...)

See above. The SCA *cannot* expect newcomers to know that they have 
redefined an existing word. Nor can they expect newcomers to know "jargon" 
like "contrafait". (For that matter, I *seriously* doubt that the SCA can 
redefine filk, given the large overlap between fandom and the Society)

SH>  Therefore, for SCA purposes, we will have to make some
SH>  readily-obvious distinction between the usual sort of filk (SCA words
SH>  set to "Gilligan's Island" and mundane and modern references set to
SH>  "Greensleeves" and all SF and fantasy tunes) and the subset that is
SH>  socially acceptable here, in all situations.

The SCA should not use the word "filk" *at all* in attempting to define what 
does and doesn't "belong". Because it only confuses things, it does not 
clarify them.

SH>  Note that Christian was hurt over just this distinction in this
SH>  forum, and a young lady earlier described her hurt at having to leave
SH>  the Enchanted Ground. Neither of these people meant to offend, and
SH>  neither of their critics meant to hurt. (The young lady left in
SH>  tears, if I remember...) The problem is that a certain class of
SH>  acceptable song is lumped in with unacceptable songs, making it hard
SH>  for new SCA members to fathom the "rules" (especially since they are
SH>  customary rules, not "real" rules) and avoid embarrassment.

The objectors are going to have to be content with "no modern references" 
and "no modern sounding tunes". Otherwise I can dig up a *long* series of 
somgs which would have to be excluded as "filk", yet wouldn't offend most 
folks. (Heck, there are several songs in the first edition of the An Tir 
Songbook that wound up listed as "traditional" that actually refer to 
obscure incidents in fantasy!)

SH>  Surely you don't believe the integrity of the usual mundane
SH>  definition of the word "filk" is more important than the social issue
SH>  inside the SCA?

Filk has *no* "mundane" defintion. It is a bit of fannish jargon. All that 
attempting to redefine it in the SCA will do is confuse newcomers. The word 
*has* a definition. We aren't going to be able to change it, and since it 
isn't a referent to anything "SCA" we shouldn't attempt to.

SH>  I know you mundanely, and I know you are usually very sensitive to
SH>  people being hurt because of someone's definition of what they do.

Which is *exactly* why I feel that the term "filk" has no business in a 
description of what is or is not acceptable in the SCA. The people objecting 
to "filk" know as much about it as the people who object to "witches" know 
about witchcraft.

SH>  Semantics is the devil in this detail....

In fandom, filk has a relatively clear meaning. In the SCA it doesn't. So 
the SCA should *avoid* the term completely.

SH>  So let's change the word!

That is neither practical nor desireable. Let's use a *different* word. 
Better yet, lets *not use a "word". Instead we need to be *explicit* and 
*detailed* about what is and is not acceptable. It is wrong to expect 
newcomers to know such jargon immediately. And as the examples you gave 
above show, it's the *newcomers* that will fall afoul of this. 
 
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