HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mfoster@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu (Marc Foster)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Deforestation -> Desertification?
Date: 19 Nov 92 06:15:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: constell.Bxy9Dw.E6
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK
Originator: usenet@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu

In article <1992Nov18.201401.27001@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska) writes:
>I have read of theories that suggest that deforestation changes
>rain patterns in ways that can lead to desertification.  This has
>been suggested to be happening in the Amazon and in eastern Africa,
>where frequent droughts are leading to famine.  It is known that
>Ethiopia and Somalia have experienced significant deforestation.
>
>What is the status of these theories among meteorologists and
>climatologists?
>-- 
>		dingo in boulder	(dean@vexcel.com)

Marc here, once again inserting his keyboard in his mouth...  I know that
there has been some concern about overgrazing in the African Sahel leading
to desertification (and an ever-expanding Sahara).  The chain goes something
like this:  Goats eat the vegetation, leads to less water holding capacity at
the surface (and a higher albedo), meaning less water in the system, meaning
less rain.  The higher albedo increases reflectance (duh), possibly reducing
chances of getting decent surface heating for convection, again decreasing
rainfall.  I haven't heard this theory applied to the Amazon, and my
familiarity with Eastern Africa rainfall patterns is also suspect, so I'll
defer that to a real climatologist.  

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
marc foster, OUSOM       | Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiith, a herring! - MP
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: upfv@pool.info.sunyit.edu (Paul Vieira)
Subject: lake effect snow
Organization: State University of New York -- Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 02:28:56 GMT



As a member of the select western New York counties vulnerable to
Lake Effect, a few questions come to mind regarding its fundamentals.

1. Which element is a greater factor in the intensity of the lake
effect, wind strength or the delta between the air temperature and
the lake temperature? If the air is very cold and the wind light,
will it yield as much activity as moderate temperature drop and
very heavy wind?

2. Here in Rome/Utica area, when conditions favor lake effect we are more apt
to get accumulating snow in the evening hours. Does the sun influence
the effect during the day, perhaps by "burning off" moisture?

3. Finally, this is a general question about wind. Why does wind tend to 
subside in the evening?

Appreciate any response.


Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: userDHAL@mts.ucs.UAlberta.CA (David Halliwell)
Subject: Re: Notable Quote
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:41:03 GMT

gwv@eastrg2.cray.com (George Vandenberghe) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.103704.2771@walter.cray.com> I write:
>|>     A giant of physical science from the 1700s or 1800s said somthing
>|> which roughly paraphrases as
>|>
>|>       THERE IS NO BETTER WAY FOR A MAN OF SCIENCE
>|>        TO DESTROY HIS REPUTATION WITH HIS PEERS
>|>       THAN TO ATTEMPT
>|>       TO PREDICT THE WEATHER.
>|>
>|>      Who said this and what was the exact quote?
>|>

>    Sorry I made this sound like an examination question?   I am just
>curious because I would like to quote it from time to time among sympathetic
>forecasters and atmospheric scientists.  I saw it years ago (March 1981)
>at the World Weather Building in Camp Springs Md posted on somebody's door but
>I didn't have the time to copy it or the presence of mind to write it down.

   Didn't sound like an exam question to me. If *I* were going to use it
on an exam, I would have said something like:

   - It has been said that there is no better way for a man of science
     to destroy his reputation with his peers than to attempt to predict
     the weather. Discuss.

   Now *that's* an exam question! (Yes, my students hate me.)


Dave Halliwell
Department of Geography
University of Alberta
Edmonton, Alberta
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: ckawecki@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: Motivation to rain more over forests!
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:47:46 GMT

Researching rainfall as it relates to vegetation and albido, I have come
across many a perplexing theory. I seek any ideas and alalyses which
may have better dealt with this problem. Thus far, I am disappointed:

One proposed mechanism is that air confronts a thermal mountain 
(Malkus and Stearn, 1953), rises, cools, and hence precipitation 
(Johnathan Sands, 1981). This is based on very sketchy evidence
that forests are significantly hotter (6 deg C is suggested) Yet
the data is based on albido as a function of net radiation and
radiated longwave energy to suggest that trees use less of their
net radiation on evapotranspiration. It seems, however, that in this case
albido ought to have been defined in terms of shortwave incoming
radiation, not net radiation! (for, the question would be: under
similair soil moisture contents, and light, would trees or
grasslands have greater evapotranspiration levels?) (remember
to consider that radiated energy can be once again reflected by
cloud

	Preliminary investigation (Brown 72- re strip clearcutting
of Minnesota Spruce) suggests that forests for a certain time
have lower evapotranspiration rates than that which replaces them,
but that groundwater is depleted in the clearcut strips. Reasonable, then, 
to suggest that a clearcut forest would lose soil moisture content,
until the grasses which replaced the forest had too little water
to draw from, at which point their evapotranspiration rates would
be less than those of forests? This suggests that significant
amounts of rainfall were originally not from the ocean, but evaporated.

	Ideas anyone?

					chris kawecki
					hampshire college
					ckawecki@hamp.hampshire.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: gwv@eastrg2.cray.com (George Vandenberghe)
Subject: Re: Notable Quote
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:49:21 CST


In article <1992Nov16.103704.2771@walter.cray.com> I write:
|>     A giant of physical science from the 1700s or 1800s said somthing
|> which roughly paraphrases as
|>
|>       THERE IS NO BETTER WAY FOR A MAN OF SCIENCE
|>        TO DESTROY HIS REPUTATION WITH HIS PEERS
|>       THAN TO ATTEMPT
|>       TO PREDICT THE WEATHER.
|>
|>      Who said this and what was the exact quote?
|>

    Sorry I made this sound like an examination question?   I am just
curious because I would like to quote it from time to time among sympathetic
forecasters and atmospheric scientists.  I saw it years ago (March 1981)
at the World Weather Building in Camp Springs Md posted on somebody's door but
I didn't have the time to copy it or the presence of mind to write it down.

Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: userDHAL@mts.ucs.UAlberta.CA (David Halliwell)
Subject: Re: average temp
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 02:40:51 GMT

nin15b63@merrimack.edu (THE WOLF) writes:

>Anyone know the average (mean) temperature of the surface of the planet?
>-- 
  
    About 15 degrees C. (Assuming you are from earth....)


Dave Halliwell
Department of Geography
University of Alberta
Edmonton, Alberta
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: stumpf@nsslsun.nssl.uoknor.edu (Greg Stumpf)
Subject: Re: lake effect snow
Organization: National Severe Storms Laboratory
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:25:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.022856.19931@pool.info.sunyit.edu> upfv@pool.info.sunyit.edu (Paul Vieira) writes:
>
>As a member of the select western New York counties vulnerable to
>Lake Effect, a few questions come to mind regarding its fundamentals.

Having spent four winters in lovely Oswego, New York, let me try to answer
your questions based on my experience:

>1. Which element is a greater factor in the intensity of the lake
>effect, wind strength or the delta between the air temperature and
>the lake temperature? If the air is very cold and the wind light,
>will it yield as much activity as moderate temperature drop and
>very heavy wind?

I would say that instability (can be measured by the "delta-T" between the
lake surface temperature, and the 850 mb temperature) is the greater
of the two factors.  Typically, for a lighter wind, the heavier snow will
fall closer to the lake shore.  Also, a lighter wind will mean a greater 
chance for a land-breeze situation which may enhance the local convergence
and lead to heavier snow near the lake shore.  For a stronger wind, the
heavier snow may fall farther inland, where, in some areas (say the Tug
Hill Plateau east of Lake Ontario), topographic uplifting will greatly
enhance snow production.

I sort of remember that a delta-T of about 15 degC was the "cutoff" for
L.E.S.S.

>2. Here in Rome/Utica area, when conditions favor lake effect we are more apt
>to get accumulating snow in the evening hours. Does the sun influence
>the effect during the day, perhaps by "burning off" moisture?

I too noticed that the heavier snow tended to fall during the nighttime 
hours.  We (meteorology students and professors at Oswego) tended to
believe this was due to an increase in the instability as the cloud tops
radiatively cooled (giving you a greater "delta-T").


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Stumpf - KB5LMU          \  /  Internet: greg@nsslsun.nssl.uoknor.edu
Forecast Applications Research ||      Phone: (405) 366-0477 FAX: 366-0472
Room 249                       ||      Pager: (405) 791-6351
National Severe                ||   Disclaimer: I chase to learn, but it's fun!
          Storms Laboratory    ||       "Be Landspouty!"
1313 Halley Circle             ||       "Everyone get good pictures!"
Norman, OK 73069              /  \      "NSSL wants your video!"
From: nin15b63@merrimack.edu (THE WOLF)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: average temp
Date: 22 Nov 92 19:58:44 GMT
Organization: Merrimack College, No. Andover, MA, USA

Anyone know the average (mean) temperature of the surface of the planet?
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Andy Harrington                      | Whatever you can do, or dream you can,
 Computer Geek                        | begin it.  Boldness has genius, power 
 Merrimack College, North Andover, MA | and magic in it.  -  Goethe            
 nin15b63@merrimack.edu               | aharrington@ldbvax.lotus.com         
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: capskb@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu (Keith Brewster)
Subject: Re: Upwind advection scheme: Arakawa ? Takacs? Monthly Weather review?
Originator: usenet@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 03:40:27 GMT
Organization: University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK

In article <1992Nov17.000810.8067@news.columbia.edu> rgm4@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Raghuram G Murtugudde) writes:
>
> Someone gave me a vague reference to a paper by Arakawa on a monotonic
> upwind advection scheme that is supposed to have appeared in the Monthly
> Weather Review. I have no idea which year though. Does anybody remember
> even an approximate date? Does anybody know if Arakawa wrote any such paper?
>
> The method is supposed to be that of Takacs(??) and is supposed to be
> a 3rd order upwind scheme. 
>
> Thank you in advance.
>
> Ragu

 The Takacs paper is:

 Takacs, L., 1985, "A two-step scheme for the advection equation with
 minimized dissipation and dispersion errors.", Monthly Weather Rev.,
 113, 1050-1065.

 Quoting the abstract:

 The scheme is exactly third-order accurate in time and space for uniform flow.



Keith Brewster
OU School of Meteorology
capskb@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,news.answers
From: stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Stephen Jascourt)
Subject: Re: Deforestation -> Desertification?
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Meteorology and Space Science
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 00:58:56 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.231355.11354@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> hannegan@hyperion.gsfc.nasa.gov (Bryan Hannegan) writes:
>In article <1992Nov18.201401.27001@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska) writes:
>>I have read of theories that suggest that deforestation changes
>>rain patterns in ways that can lead to desertification.  This has
>>been suggested to be happening in the Amazon and in eastern Africa,
>>where frequent droughts are leading to famine.  It is known that
>>Ethiopia and Somalia have experienced significant deforestation.
>>
>>What is the status of these theories among meteorologists and
>>climatologists?
>
>I remember reading something somewhere about how the majority of the rainfall
>that takes place in the tropics results not from direct advective transport
>of the moisture, but rather as a result of the evapotranspiration from the 
>forest canopy. Once the forest is cut, then conceiveably the moisture which
>hits the soil (which is relatively poor) runs off and none of it evaporates
>to assist further storm development inland.

This is the case according to a number of studies that are mostly somewhat old
for the Amazon Basin. I don't recall the authors or journals offhand, but I
do know Heinz Lettau has done some work on this, and I vaguely recall he got
some counter-intuitive results from his water budget analysis. Anyway, yes,
a lot of the water in the Amazon recycles through the water cycle several
times after coming in off the tropical Atlantic.

Around the margins of the Sahara, global climate change of centuries and
millenia have contributed to expanding the desert and extra perturbations by
humans have exacerbated the problem, mainly by grasslands being overgrazed
in a way that makes it difficult for the grasses to grow back. As for
Somalia and Ethiopia (the original question above), I don't know.

An expert source on human modification of local and regional climate 
through agriculture and urbanization is the Illinois State Water Survey.
If any of the U-Illinois readers can get some information from Stanley
Chagnon or someone else at the Water Survey, we can get the inside scoop.

Stephen Jascourt   stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu
From: hannegan@hyperion.gsfc.nasa.gov (Bryan Hannegan)
Subject: Re: Deforestation -> Desertification?
Organization: Code 916, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 23:13:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.201401.27001@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska) writes:
>I have read of theories that suggest that deforestation changes
>rain patterns in ways that can lead to desertification.  This has
>been suggested to be happening in the Amazon and in eastern Africa,
>where frequent droughts are leading to famine.  It is known that
>Ethiopia and Somalia have experienced significant deforestation.
>
>What is the status of these theories among meteorologists and
>climatologists?
>-- 

I remember reading something somewhere about how the majority of the rainfall
that takes place in the tropics results not from direct advective transport
of the moisture, but rather as a result of the evapotranspiration from the 
forest canopy. Once the forest is cut, then conceiveably the moisture which
hits the soil (which is relatively poor) runs off and none of it evaporates
to assist further storm development inland.

I feel the limb that I have stepped out on to cracking....so I am going to
go to the literature to see what I can find?

Anyone care to chime in with their thoughts?

Bryan Hannegan
Dept. of Geosciences, University of California, Irvine
hannegan@halo.ps.uci.edu

Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: westphal@sundog.arc.nasa.gov (Doug Westphal)
Subject: STOP Re: mesoscale forecast model
Originator: westphal@sundog.arc.nasa.gov
Organization: NASA Ames Atmospheric Science Group
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:52:09 GMT

Oh boy, here we go again: uninformed people making broad generalizations
about topics or models which they aren't sufficiently familar with,
causing the completely uninformed public to become confused. Great.
Below are two examples of this kind of subjective commentary.
None of their arguments are substantiated, nor can they be in this forum.

>>
>>From hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu:
>> 
>>The best mesoscale model around now is the The Penn State/NCAR model,
>>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>MM4.  It beats the life out of the second most common model, CSU-RAMS.
>> 
>>Harold Brooks                    hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu
>>National Severe Storms Laboratory/CIMMS (Norman, OK)
 

>>From: stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Stephen Jascourt)
>>
>>I have heard various rave reviews about the MM4, but my experience seeing the
>>output of people using it (I haven't used it myself) is that it is filled with
>>                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>problems, worst being that it smooths the heck out of *everything* in the
>>horizontal, so you are left only with features that are strongly forced,
>> < blah, blah, blah >
>>Stephen Jascourt   stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu


The original posting and responses were reasonable and I would hope that
the poster will now thoroughly research the different models before
choosing which is best for him or her; but don't do it over Usenet.

Dave Blanchard then says:

>>Harold,
>>
>>That's a pretty strong statement.  Could you elaborate on why you believe
>>PSU/NCAR (MM4?) outperforms RAMS?

Noooooooo!!! The question of which is the 'best' model cannot be
decided with a Gallup opinion poll or on Usenet. Let's not continue
this, okay? The whole thing should be decided in an entirely different way:
IN THE PEER-REVIEWED LITERATURE.
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: Fil Sapienza <Fil.Sapienza@med.umich.edu>
Subject: Clouds over this part of Midwest
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 09:36:44 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Hospital - Surgery Technology
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
     Services

Greetings.  I live in South East Michigan, and am curious if someone
could tell me why is it that between the months of November to March,
we hardly get any sunshine up here?  What are the meteorological reasons
for this? (i.e. wind patterns, etc).  
---------------------------------
Filipp Sapienza
University of Michigan Hospital - Department of Surgery
Technology Services
Fil.Sapienza@med.umich.edu
(313)936-7331
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: kjun@typhoon.atmos.colostate.edu (Pat Fitzpatrick)
Subject:  A little humor on the mesoscale discussion
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 07:46:24 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University -- Atmos Sci

The vote for absolute worse mesoscale model has to be the one I 
used for my Master's research (hint, none that have been previously
mentioned, and it is anonymous to protect the innocent). It had no
documentation, and it's boundary consitions didn't radiate out the
gravity waves like it was suppose to (it's a compressible atmosphere
but uses a time-splitting scheme).

I had gravity  and sound waves bouncing all over the place! It took some
extra-fine tinkering to get realistic results. I'll take any of the other
models anyday.

Needless to say, I am now doing observational research for my doctorate
program.

Pat Fitzpatrick
From: ac@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (ac)
Newsgroups: sci.comp-aided
Subject: XDataSlice and HDF Library
Date: 18 Nov 92 04:58:34 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center


	I'm looking for XDataSlice and HDF Library, both were develped
by National Center for Supercomputing Applications at U. of Illnois at
Urbana. I heard that they are available in public domains. Where are 
they?

	Any sguuestion is highly appreciated!!


Alex Chou
EE, Purdue U.
shihtsun@ecn.purdue.edu
ac@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
From: jvolpe@ncsa.uiuc.edu (James Volpe)
Newsgroups: sci.comp-aided
Subject: Re: XDataSlice and HDF Library
Date: 18 Nov 92 18:06:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BxxBM4.M6w
Organization: Dow Chemical
Originator: jvolpe@mars.ncsa.uiuc.edu


In article <BxwB5n.3J8@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, ac@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (ac) writes:
|> 
|> 	I'm looking for XDataSlice and HDF Library, both were develped
|> by National Center for Supercomputing Applications at U. of Illnois at
|> Urbana. I heard that they are available in public domains. Where are 
|> they?

Try looking on ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu.



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Volpe					jvolpe@ncsa.uiuc.edu
Unix Systems Administrator
Dow Chemical  -  Midland, Michigan
From: ng4@husc10.harvard.edu (Ho Leung Ng)
Newsgroups: sci.comp-aided
Subject: Re: Computers in Medicine
Date: 21 Nov 92 05:42:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc10.ng4.722324573


   If your interests are in biochemistry/mol. biol. aspects of medicine,
there are countless fields of research, incl. computer analysis of structure,
computer-aided design of drugs/inhibitors, general simulation of molecules,
computer assisted analysis of spectroscopy....
Newsgroups: sci.comp-aided,sci.math,sci.math.stat
From: ib09@rz70.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Thomas Koenig)
Subject: Volterra integral equation with scattered data points
Reply-To: ib09@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, Germany
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:58:36 GMT

I have a Volterra integral equation of the first kind

\int_{0}^{t} K(s,t) y(s) ds + f(t) = 0 

where K(s,t) is known analytically, y(s) is what I look for and f(t)
is known from experimental data points, which show scatter.

Any hints about how to solve this equation in a meaningful way
would be very welcome; I'll summarize e-mail responses I receive
if there is interest.

Thanks a lot in advance
-- 
Thomas Koenig, ib09@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de, ui0t@dkauni2.bitnet
The joy of engineering is to find a straight line on a double logarithmic
diagram.
From: lomasm@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Martin Lomas)
Newsgroups: sci.comp-aided
Subject: Re: Computers in Medicine
Date: 19 Nov 92 01:16:08 GMT

In <1ec7dtINN1at@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bt402@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Merbil R. Gonzalez) writes:


>I am a third year medical student that has a high interest in 
>computers. Are there any programs that mix these two fields of
>science?

>Thanks in advance,
>MG
>-- 
>Merbil Gonzalez     Internet:M_GONZALEZ@UPR1.UPR.CLU.EDU
>                             bt402@cleveland.Freenet.Edu


('programs' ?)


Work areas: Yes:

AI/ Expert Systems -- as for medical diagnosis;

Image processing/ analysis -- processing CAT/ NMR scans, X-ray plates;

(General programming -- relieve medics from admin tasks!; :-)


As for somewhere to LEARN about all this...

Over here in the UK you could complete a medic degree and then take
a one year taught 'computers' MSc, taking whatever modules were of
interest. Manchester would be good due to large computer and medical
departments with good links between the two.

Computer projects for medical applications are available.


Martin.
From: bt402@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Merbil R. Gonzalez)
Newsgroups: sci.comp-aided
Subject: Computers in Medicine
Date: 18 Nov 1992 01:48:45 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I am a third year medical student that has a high interest in 
computers. Are there any programs that mix these two fields of
science?

Thanks in advance,
MG
-- 
Merbil Gonzalez     Internet:M_GONZALEZ@UPR1.UPR.CLU.EDU
                             bt402@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
From: park@netcom.com (Bill Park)
Newsgroups: sci.comp-aided,sci.math.num-analysis,sci.research,sci.engr.biomed
Subject: Ab initio calculation of molecular structure?
Summary: How do you do it?
Keywords: ab intio calculation, physical chemistry, molecular modeling
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:15:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Nov9.181522.12542
Followup-To: sci.comp-aided
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

1) How do you calculate the potential energy of a given molecular
model ab initio?

2) How do you compute a graphic representation of the electron clouds
in a molecule?

3) What software is available to do these things on a workstation?

Thanks,
Bill Park
-- 
Grandpaw Bill's High Technology Consulting & Live Bait, Inc.
Newsgroups: sci.econ