HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jeff@onion.rain.com (Jeff Beadles)
Subject: Re: Air Warrior (WWII multiplayer combat sim)
Reply-To: jeff@onion.rain.com (Jeff Beadles)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 03:17:50 GMT

brooke@cco.caltech.edu (Brooke Paul Anderson) writes:
>Why bother with arcades when you can do this from the comfort of your
>own home whenever you want to -- at $6/hour, which is probably cheaper
>than an arcade would charge?

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but AirWarrior is not all that it's cracked
up to be.  I've played for the past 2 years or so, and over the last 6 months,
the quality of the game has totally gone to hell.  For example, you can
only shoot planes from ~800 yards away.  In itself, this is ok, but the game
has horrible warps, where I've seen planes jump 2000-3000 feet away and back
again.  The host that runs AW is pathetic at best.  Did they refund any money?
Nope.  Instead, they moved the game to an even slower host.  Did they respond
to constructive messages? Not really.  Do they care about anything but the
money they receive?  Not that I can tell.

Save your money, and buy a copy of Falcon3 for yourself and a friend.

	-Jeff
-- 
Jeff Beadles		jeff@onion.rain.com
From: brooke@cco.caltech.edu (Brooke Paul Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: Genie
Date: 15 Oct 92 09:00:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: gap.1bjbvoINN33b
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

To subscribe to GEnie, set your modem to 1200 or 2400 bps,
call 1-800-638-8369, enter hhh upon connection, enter
xtx99461,genie at the U#= prompt, and have a credit card
or checking account number ready.  Most of GEnie is included
in the $5/month basic charge.  Air Warrior is an extra $6/hour,
as are downloads and most other multiplayer games.
You can contact customer service at 1-800-638-9636.

To get to the Air Warrior area, type "air" at a GEnie prompt.
There, you can find menu options that will let you download the
software and instructions.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: trwagner@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Ted)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: Air Warrior (WWII multiplayer combat sim)
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:32:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.BvrCHG.F8w
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1auaosINNbg1@gap.caltech.edu> brooke@cco.caltech.edu (Brooke Paul Anderson) writes:
>========
>
>It was the last Sunday, and, after having lost the previous four
>battles, the Japanese had no reason to play conservatively.  Our

	<Most deleted>

>
>All in all, it was a very fun battle.



	Now, if there were only ARCADES interconnected with sit
down sims to do something like this!  Imagine 'Steel Talons' 
connected to another 'Steel Talons' across the country!  And,
what if internet!  I hope there is someone programming something
similar to AW for internet!  So cool.  I look forward to seeing
the new Hellcats that is supposed to have networking capabilities.

-- 
"All my life's a circle, but I can't tell you why..."-- Harry Chapin
"Words to live by..."-- Bruce Springsteen on "Tribute to Harry Chapin"
		-trwagner@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu-
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett)
Subject: How about joysticks? (Re: Yoke for Mac ???)
Keywords: Yoke,Mac,Mouse,Simulator
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 02:41:05 GMT

In article <iltis.718648797@synapse> iltis@ece.ucsb.edu (Prof. R. A. Iltis) writes:
>Although it's not a yoke, I have had good results with the Gravis
>mousestick on the Mac. 

Are there any other sticks out for the Mac (fighter-style)?  

My problems with the Gravis widget is that it's too small, too dainty, and
the ergonomics are horrible: impossible to grip it and apply full back-
pressure; one has to fly with one's fingertips.  Designed for small hands.

I got rid of mine a couple of years ago.  Just wasn't worth the hassle.





---
Robert Dorsett
rdd@cactus.org
...cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!rdd

                     Vote for sci.aeronautics.airliners!
 Send email to airliner-vote-admin@rascal.ics.utexas.edu for a copy of the CFV
From: rlwst8+@pitt.edu (Robert L Williamson)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: F117
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:20:30 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

I purchased F117 about a week ago and I have a question concerning the graphics.  On the back of the box there is a graphics picture of a pilot getting into the plane.  I have been playing this game forever and I can't find this picture anywhere in the game.  What am I missing?
From: trwagner@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Ted)
Subject: Re: Sun Aviator users??
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 01:45:24 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.215729.6229@qualcomm.com> bwoodall@qualcomm.com writes:
>In article 92Oct7093744@tk7.oulu.fi, hsk@tk7.oulu.fi (Hannu Kauppinen) writes:
>>And if someone knows other fligth simulators for Sun, please let me know!
>
>	Email ahi-interest@ahi.com for more Aviator info and yes there is
>	a PD flight sim out there (something like ACM) look for on archie.
>
>.........Bill,
>

	Uh, what name do we use for a search pattern in archie?

Thanks

Ted
-- 
"All my life's a circle, but I can't tell you why..."-- Harry Chapin
"Words to live by..."-- Bruce Springsteen on "Tribute to Harry Chapin"
		-trwagner@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu-
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: asbun@ec.ecn.purdue.edu (Eduardo Asbun)
Subject: Re: Sun Aviator users??
Summary: SUN Aviator simulators...
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 21:17:09 GMT

In article <D87-MAL.92Oct9185145@oddjob.nada.kth.se>, d87-mal@oddjob.nada.kth.se (Mats Lfkvist) writes:
> ACM can be found on export.lcs.mit.edu as contrib/acm.2.4.tar.Z.
>                                                           ^^^ 
> It should work on any X-windows machine, but really needs quite a bit
> of cpu (and graphics) performance to do well, even though the graphics
> is VERY simple.  
> [deleted...]
> The best part with ACM is that you can dogfight against a friend, the
> worst part is that it gets slower when more players are connected :-(
> 
>       _
> Mats Lofkvist
> d87-mal@nada.kth.se

Seems to me ACM is worth a look... Does a good ol' netter know how to
extract files in TAR format?   The UNIX manual is not very helpful in
this case...

Thanks in advance!

Regards, ACM lover-to-be  :)     (Edward Asbun)   
--
Eduardo Asbun                      
asbun@ecn.purdue.edu                   |      Purdue University  
School of Electrical Engineering       |      West Lafayette, IN
From: hdnea@usho92.hou281.chevron.com (David Neal)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: Air Warrior (WWII multiplayer combat sim)
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:46:44 GMT
Organization: Chevron

In article <1avsu6INNlfc@gap.caltech.edu> brooke@cco.caltech.edu (Brooke Paul Anderson) writes:
>Also, a game like Air Warrior is not well suited to arcades.  It takes
>too long to learn, there is very little you can do within two minutes of
>taking off, and the planes handle more realistically than any 
>arcade game I've ever seen.  AW is a game best played at least .5-1 hour
>at a time.  One hour is a typical mission time for me when I take off
>in a P-51, climb to 15-20k, and then go hunting enemies selectively.
>If I take off in a Spitfire, climb only to 5-6k, and attack no matter
>what the tactical situation, a typical mission lasts about 15 minutes.  It
>depends on your style, but it takes more than two minutes to climb or
>to get near the action usually.
>

I disagree completely. True, arcade AW would be very expensive to play,
but look at the success of the Virtuality systems. $1/min fer crying
out loud. You could probably charge .25/min in an arcade setting
and make money.


Mostly, I think you would see crossover people who wanted to 
'really' fly a spit or a p-51. At least as close as you can 
get in a sit-down arcade chassis. Whether it would _last_
is they real issue. Photon was packed, for a while anyway.

Honestly, scheduling tournaments and keeping the machines
in use would be the hard part. If it's just you, a guy in
Minnesota and one Genie player, it's not going to be much fun.

>If AW took on an arcade-game style, it would be ruined.  The more
>realistic tactical and strategic elements of the game are half the fun
>and half the challenge.  Maybe a watered-down one-on-one version would
>work in arcades.


You forgot the IMHO. In _your_ opinion strategy is half the fun. 

Arcade users would get a crash course in strategy if you were
waiting for them, I'm sure of that :-)

-- 
David Neal -- hdnea@hou281.chevron.com 
Conserve water, California's deserts need more cotton farms.
Barbie says, Take quaaludes in gin and go to a disco right away!
 But Ken says, WOO-WOO!!  No credit at ``Mr. Liquor''!!
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators,comp.sys.mac.games
From: rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett)
Subject: Re: F.S 4.0
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 07:53:28 GMT

In article <5020@metasoft.UUCP> alan@metasoft.UUCP (Alan Epstein) writes:
>mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas) writes:
>>....  If you want more radio
>>nav-aids and such, either buy subLOGIC scenery disks, Mallard scenery disks,
>>or the A&SD and add your own.
>
>As a Macintosh FS 4.0 user, I thought there was only one source for
>additional scenery disks: Bruce Artwick. Could you explain all the
>options, including the Scenery Designer. I'd appreciate knowing where
>to buy them and how much to expect to pay.

Bruce Artwick Organization makes the software.  Microsoft markets it.  Mallard 
(BAO + Merit) sells the knick-nacks.  SubLogic is out of the FS picture (ATP).

FS 4.0 will read the older FS 2-format sector files, as well as the newer
ones produced by Mallard.  I suspect it's possible to transfer the data
from a Sublogic 3.5" disk, but haven't tried it.  I have read the old 
Hawaiian sector disk (which didn't work out very well).


I once tried to cook up a Scenery Designer database for use in Mac FS 4.0,
but the user interface was such CRAP! (yes, upper-case + exclamation point)
that I soon gave up.  There is no Scenery Designer for the Mac.




---
Robert Dorsett
rdd@cactus.org
...cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!rdd
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: yiannis@ccad.uiowa.edu (Yiannis Papelis)
Subject: Re: Commercial airline sims (for PC?)
Organization: CAD-Research, University of Iowa, Iowa City
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:54:07 GMT

In some article mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas) writes:
>
>Try "Flight Assignment:  ATP" by subLOGIC.  You'll be impressed.  I have it
>for my IBM compatible.  I don't know if it's available for other platforms.
>
I've been hearing about ATP and reading the posts but I still have
a couple of questions about it.  (Maybe a time for an FAQ with short/long
reviews & descriptions of all flight sims out there ???)

I have a 20MHz 386 without coprocessor.  What kind of performance should
I expect?  i read the post about it running well at a 50 Mhz 486 but
that doesn't help much in my case.

Also, is it appropriate for learning IFR procedures?  I have FS1-4 and
despite the scenery designer and all the remaining ad-ons, I find
it very hard to create realistic IFR environments.  For example, putting
an ILS is fairly easy but I have found that creating one that is 
correlated with other airports, nearby VORs (for fixes) and NDBs,
and is alligned to the runway headings is a very time consuming 
(if not impossible) proposition.

Does ATP contain full IFR databases for its airports?, 
Is the database expandable?, 
How does the plane fly?  the 747 model at FS4 requires constant
attention to maintain altitude and documentation is scarse.
And finally, how much did you pay for it?

Thanks for any comments, if I receive enough stuff I'll try to put
together a description that could be useful to others.

-- 
Yiannis E. Papelis,            - Electrical & Computer Engineering, U of Iowa
Center of Computer Aided Design- Home of the Iowa Driving Simulator & future
e-mail: yiannis@ccad.uiowa.edu - home of the National Advanced Driving Simulator
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: huopio@lut.fi (Kauto Huopio)
Subject: Re: Why not discuss "real simulators" here?
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:24:36 GMT
Distribution: rec
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed below are writers own.
	<1992Oct13.132638.1736@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil>
Peruutus: Mielipiteet ovat omiani.
Organization: Lappeenranta University of Technology, Finland

In article <1992Oct13.132638.1736@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil> dsnyder@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil writes:

> In article <HUOPIO.92Oct8135513@pyton.cc.lut.fi>, huopio@lut.fi (Kauto Huopio) writes:
> > The articles so far in this group have been mainly about PC-based
> > simulators. Why not share some ideas about the "big ones" ? Our
> > university aviation club got a chance to visit Finnair Training
> > 
>   Ok, I'll start something going in the "BIG ONES" simulator environment.
> Most of the simulators I have worked on exist in a distributed computing
> environment.  Has anyone thought of designing a high fidelity simulator
> on one high speed graphics computer?  I'm toying with the idea of one of
> the new Silicon Graphics super duper 4 display computers.  I just wonder
> how it will stand up to the I/O rate required while trying to display the
> graphics.  I don't know if it can be done on one computer.  The last one

Perhaps the graphics can be done in one computer. But I doubt that the
I/O and the graphics fit in the same system. The graphics (for 4
displays) will take a LOT of capasity already. If I've understood it
correctly, a typical commercial jet simulator needs something like
1000 I/O channels...or what is the real world figure?

How about building the simulator in a "massively distributed" way?
I've heard of systems that have something like 30-40 486 PC:s running
all proprietary code. Of course the displays are done in a bit more
specialized systems.

--Kauto
--
****************** Kauto Huopio (huopio@kannel.lut.fi) **********************
*  Mail: Kauto Huopio, Punkkerikatu 1 A 10, SF-53850 Lappeenranta,Finland   *
*****************************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: rwalters@nyx.cs.du.edu (Russell Walters)
Subject: Thanks
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 03:19:02 GMT


Thanks to all for varied and detailed replies to my question some messages
back. I would've mailed you each individually, but, being a relatively new
user on the net and on this system, I, well, I .....I haven't quite
figured out how to do it. :'. 

Onward!

Russell

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: thakulin@vipunen.hut.fi (Timo Tapio Hakulinen)
Subject: Re: OOOOPS!
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:48:55

> Sorry about that.  In the previous post I tantalized you with a description
> of a FANTASTIC add-on for MSFS, then forget to tell you what it was.  It's
> the "Sound, Graphics, and Aircraft Upgrade" from Mallard Software.  If you
> have a Tseng Labs or Trident VGA card, get it.  It will blow you away!
>
> -Bob

Are you sure about Trident?  The version of this product that I have seen
supports exactly six different VGA types:  ATI VGA Wonder, ATI VGA Wonder
Plus/XL, Video 7 1024i, Video 7 Fast Write, SVGAs with Tseng chip set, and
naturally the plain IBM VGA.  If your copy of SGA indeed supports Trident,
then it must be an upgraded version.

Timo
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett)
Subject: Re: Mac: Flightsim opinions sought
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 06:01:35 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.220350.5939@eff.org> peterco@eff.org (Peter Cohen) writes:
>Mac users:
>
>Please give me honest appraisals of the flight simulators you've seen.  In
>particular, I'm interested in FS 4.0, P-51 Flight Simulator, and Falcon
>2.2 (or whatever the latest Mac rev is), in particular, since all the
>aforementioned programs will run on a lowly Mac Plus.

In the ftp av archive on rascal.ics.utexas.edu (misc/av), there are numerous
simulator reviews, both "real" and PC-based.  This includes a number of
older reviews, including Falcon, Fokker, P-51, and others.  I wrote most
of them, but there are others (and a few discussion-threads from the net).

There are also GIF files of the Elite (SEL & Basic) displays, if anyone's
interested, as well as Messrs. Gomez and Philipson's reviews of the same.






---
Robert Dorsett
rdd@cactus.org
...cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!rdd

 Vote on sci.aeronautics.airliners!   See the CFV in news.announce.newgroups,
 or send email to airliner-vote-admin@rascal.ics.utexas.edu for a copy of it.
From: babu@wpi.WPI.EDU (Babu Gopalakrishnan)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: Commercial airline sims (for PC?)
Date: 13 Oct 1992 05:07:39 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu

In article <1992Oct12.185407.15071@ccad.uiowa.edu> yiannis@ccad.uiowa.edu (Yiannis Papelis) writes:

>I have a 20MHz 386 without coprocessor.  What kind of performance should
>I expect?  i read the post about it running well at a 50 Mhz 486 but
>that doesn't help much in my case.
>

I run SubLogic ATP on a 16 MHz 386SX without a coprocessor.  It does pretty
fine actually.  If my approach is lousy, I usually like to kill all scenery
right before the final approach so I can make delicate adjustments without
too much screen jerkiness, but other than that its quite fine.

-- Babu
From: rab@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (Richard Alan Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: ATP commands
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:05:30 GMT
Organization: School of Physics, University of Melbourne

In article <1992Oct15.143843.3844@netcom.com> hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong) writes:
>From article <1992Oct14.173650.28179@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, by med2p@receptor.pharm.Virginia.EDU (Marc. Durieux):
>> with a Hercules graphics system, but somehow my screen remains black.
>
>ATP requires EGA, and only EGA, period.  No if's, end's, or but's.


Hmmm, I've run ATP on a monochrome Herc card (looked pretty horrible.. like
FS-1) all I did was set video= herc in the config.atp

alistair

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators,rec.games.misc
From: jlong@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (John Long)
Subject: ACM: where is it?
Organization: Cyberian Air Force
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 22:09:31 GMT

Title says it. I used Archie to search for it yesterday, with no
success, possibly because I used the wrong search pattern. I have
a copy of an early version and there is no e-mail address that I
can find.

ACM is a f-16 combat simulator/game that runs under X windows. I was
thinking of porting it to run under uh, ah, messydos (because it's
there). I don't have a X terminal.

If anyone knows anything about it, I would like to know, and probably
so would others. 

Thanks
-longjohn
From: pricejoh@CS.ColoState.EDU (john russel price)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: where to buy ATP?
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:36:33 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado State University Computer Science, Industrial Technology


    Who has the best price on Flight Assignment ATP in the US? 
  Want to mail order but the only place I know of is the 
  Flight Computing Catalog. Please include a phone number if 
  you can.

    Thanks.
 
-- 
John Price    email: pricejoh@handel.CS.Colostate.Edu
From: iltis@ece.ucsb.edu (Prof. R. A. Iltis)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: Yoke for Mac ???
Keywords: Yoke,Mac,Mouse,Simulator
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:39:57 GMT
Distribution: usa

In <charlson.718632774@trust> charlson@trust.gsfc.nasa.gov (Deane Charlson) writes:

>I was wondering if anyone was aware of a good Yoke for the Mac?  I would like
>to find one for use with Microsoft Flight Simulator 4.0.

Although it's not a yoke, I have had good results with the Gravis
mousestick on the Mac.  (Just pretend you're flying a pre-war Piper Cub 
instead of a Cessna?) The FS 4.0 software is nicely optimized for the Gravis 
device.  The overall feel is quite realistic - for example, constant 
forward pressure is required to maintain straight and level, unless elevator 
trim is used.

The mousestick also seems to be an extremely high quality device, and
uses its own microprocessor so it can be programmed for almost any game/
simulator.  There's a new version of the mousestick coming out in a
month or two - you could check with Mac's Place for availability.

Side note - I just got a catalog from "Mallard Direct."  It lists a large
number of yokes/control panels for use with FS 4.0 -- however, the catalog
fails to mention that these are only for IBM and compatibles!  The
control panels are also quite expensive.

Ronald A. Iltis
UCSB Dept. ECE
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: peterco@eff.org (Peter Cohen)
Subject: Re: Any helicopter simulators out there?
Originator: peterco@eff.org
Organization: The Electronic Frontier Foundation
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 22:16:20 GMT

I'm aware of LHX Attack Chopper from Electronic Arts.  That's on the PC
and the Sega Genesis right now, and I imagine a Mac version can't be far
off.  There's also Steel Talons from Tengen, now on Genesis, soon to be on
PC.  There's another one for the PC, also, but it's name escapes me right
now.  These follow more in the game route than simulator, however.
-- 
+-----------------+------------------------------------------------+
| Peter A. Cohen  |   No, I don't reflect my employer's opinions.  |
| peterco@eff.org | Heck!  My employer doesn't even know I'm here! |
+-----------------+------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: rwalters@nyx.cs.du.edu (Russell Walters)
Subject: FS4, Aces o' Pacific, Falcon 3.0
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 03:04:14 GMT


I'm soon to get a 486/33 (to balance the ol' chekbook and do *productive*
stuff on, dontcha know) and I'd like to hear any strong opinions on
whether FS4, Falcon 3.0, or Aces o' the Pacific is the flight simulator to
end all flight simulators.....or is there another that I don't know about.
I'm coming from the land of the 4.77 Mhz Amiga, so I have no hands on
experience with any. And my apologies to those who only wanted to discuss
*real* and not desktop-based simulators in this discussion. A

Russell :'.
From: kinstrey@crd.ge.com (M. A. Kinstrey)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: ACM, F16
Date: 12 Oct 92 18:04:33 GMT
Reply-To: kinstrey@crd.ge.com
Followup-To: rec.aviation.simulators
Organization: GE CRD


I posted to comp.sys.ibm.pc about a month ago to
answer a bunch of requests for a UNIX-based flight
simulator. ACM (Aerial Combat Mission) is an X Windows-based
F16 flight simulator game. It's multi-player, and you can 
dogfight, bomb player-manned SAM sites, etc. You can fly
an F16 or a Mig-23. There is no campaign capabilities in the
game itself. It's up to the players to coordinate that.

If anyone is interested, email me, and I'll mail out the
version with my mod's. The "untouched" version is available
via ftp somewhere, but I don't know where. 

			Mike Kinstrey

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
kinstrey@wsqtba.crd.ge.com  | Sattinger's Law:
uunet!crdgw1!wsqtba!kinstrey|      It works better if you plug it in.
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Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators