HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mba2@Rosie.UH.EDU (Puneet_S)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Mixed Marriages
Date: 27 Jan 1993 17:59:01 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
Reply-To: mba2@Rosie.UH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: rosie.uh.edu

>
>>Get real the only reason that I-A's identify with whites is that the
>>culture here is white.  So whenever they step out the door almost all they
>>see is white.  Also we're not stupid, if you are accepted as a psuedo-white
>>then why identify with group that is actively discriminated against (namely
>>blacks).  I think I-A's need to wake up to the fact we are not white and
>>never will be.  We should be building alliances with other minorities
>>because we are in the same boat.  If we decide to isolate ourselves, we'll
>>get the same results as the Koreans in L.A.  I-A's sometimes delude
>>themselves into thinking that eventually white America will accept us,but
>>it will not unless we force them to accept us along with other
>>minorities.(Sorry I guess I got a little preachy)
>>
>
>I agree with you, Krishna. Indians along with Chinese and Japanese seem to
>think they are white, or more palatable to white sensibilties. Nonetheless,
>I only see Indians isolating themselves more and more until some dire
>event of presecution and bigotry occurs. You only have to look to UK,
>South Africa, Canada and other places to see this.
>
>I can't remember where, but I remember reading something to the effect that
>Indians see themselves whiter than they are and whites see them darker than
>they are. 
>
>
>Rakesh Patel

P.	Here we go again.  Yes, let's build alliances with other minorities.
	And yes let's create a prejudice association in our colleges only
	for Indian Engineers or Indian Doctors.  You know one of the things
	that really irked the hell out of me in college was that no one
	seemed to understand reality all that well.  Look I've been called
	names and "discriminated" against, but dammit that's people.  They
	are going to find a reason to discriminate against you.  Fine, unite
	and stand up for youself, but why the hell should I not try to
	assimilate myself into the society.  People accept me for who I am,
	if I don't make it a point to be different, as many of "them (whites)"
	aren't going to "look-down" on me.  And FYI we are caucasian.  We're
	not white.  You seem to confuse culture with color.   You can't force
	anybody to do anything.  They have to realize it on their own, through
	your persuasion.  Gandhi taught us that.  But the way you persuade,
	doesn't have to be through soci-political organization, it can be
	by individuals alone also.

_______________________________________________________________________________
LATER DAZE
Puneet                                                   MBA2@JETSON.UH.EDU   or
                                                         BBRC215@BAL0053.B-R.COM
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: rrp@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (rakesh.r.patel)
Subject: Re: Interracial Dating, ABCD's, and Dissension
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:19:53 GMT

In article <1jv9re$rgf@agate.berkeley.edu> mvij@soda.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij) writes:
 
>True education lies in the opening of the mind, not of
>of the bank account.

Untrue. There is no school like the School of Hard Knocks. 

 
>Hindus and Muslims in India are killing each other on the basis of religion.
>This is not religion.  This is not education.  Such people are not educated.

I love the arrogance that education is the silver bullet ot all our 
problems. If education is so wonderful, how come the West had brought upon
the world, World War I, World War II, the Cold War, etc. I think you
would agree that the West is on average, the most educated.

>
>Skills and education are supposed to be linked; that's the university model
>of a well-rounded education.  Yet a student who takes all math courses and
>no history, literature, or other humanities, will not emerge educated.

Why??? I don't have to anything about Hegelian philosphy to lead a honorable
existence. It is the height of arrogance to assume that only liberal arts
students are supposedly "educated" and I am uneducated if I haven't read
about the 100 Years War, or some author deemed by some university as been
so wonderful.
 
>If you claim that 'educated' people advocate racial intolerance and
>separatism, I would claim that they have not fully digested what they have
>been taught.  Malcolm X, for example, recanted his statement that Caucasians
>are 'white devils' in his later years after he undertook the hajj.

I don't think anyone has to be taught equality of man. It is just an innate
feeling. If one has to be taught equality, what a shame. 
>
>I don't buy that 'every culture is entirely correct in its own way and must
>be insulated from others' BS.  Indian culture can benefit from its contact
>with American culture, and vice versa.  I personally am trying to pick the
>best things from both cultures.

Sounds like something I heare on StarTrek. :)


Rakesh Patel
From: mba2@Rosie.UH.EDU (Puneet_S)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Mixed Marriages
Date: 25 Jan 1993 18:37:40 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
Reply-To: mba2@Rosie.UH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: rosie.uh.edu

>
>I'm curious to see what others out there think of mixed marriages,
>and specifically how the kids react to it. I've met a number of
>II-WA children and AfrA-WA kids, but let's try to focus on the
>II-WA and IA-WA offspring. This is an issue that most IAs are
>going to have to deal with sooner or later. Hopefully we'll get
>some input from some bi-racial people.
>Ron

P.	Hmmm...I have no problems with mixed marraiges.  You ought to
	marry who you want.  I did at one time fall in love with a
	young anglo-caucasian.  To my surprise I realized this too
	late and ended up not marrying her.  But, my preference still
	lies towards marrying someone accustomed to my culture who
	has the ability/knowledge to get along in my culture (which
	is Indian and American).  So, it would have to be someone (highest
	probability) of Indian decent raised in the U.S. or Canada etc..

	For that reason alone would I most probably not marry a
	non-Indian.  
_______________________________________________________________________________
LATER DAZE
Puneet                                                   MBA2@JETSON.UH.EDU   or
                                                         BBRC215@BAL0053.B-R.COM
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: shashi@aix3090b.uky.edu (Shashi Sathaye)
Subject: Re: catching up...tapesh, manish & maneesh
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Distribution: alt
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 08:30:06 GMT

msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu (Mehul Sanghvi) writes:




>'allo folks

>  well i finally forced myself to sit down and play catch up to the over 150
>articles i had to go thru.  quiet a few things i missed.  about the only thing
(rest of the 'rantings' deleted. Not that they were bad..)
but I liked the following and the rest of my 'systems' group.

>live long and prosper  \\//  ( four fingered vulcan )

\\//  you all.
--
--With best regards from Shashi
Login name: shashi | System Programmer By Profession | In real life:
                   | but heart(&SWEET-HEART) in Math.| Shashi Sathaye
shashi@ms.uky.edu	sysshash@ukcc.uky.edu  shashi@aix3090.uky.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: MARDHEMS@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu ()
Subject: Re: Interracial Dating, ABCD's, and Dissension
Organization: Vanderbilt University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 05:59:00 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24


	Checking back into the network, I can see that schizophrenia has been
running rampant around acua-i.  What's in the water out there in California?
Whatever it is, don't bring it down South - There needs to be one place in the
US that's still sane! <:-)


	However, some rationality shines through, like a hint of sunlight
just barely peeping out of the gray clouds.


Words of Wisdom:

> >I don't think Maneesh's comments were idiotic or ignorant, and I don't
> >think they should be ignored.  I think they were opinions stated in a
> >manner lacking tact and sensitivity.


To which Manish (my namesake) Vij from that den of liberalism UCB writes:


> They should not be ignored precisely because they are shared by the vast
> majority of the first generation S.Asian immigrants.  As for ignorance,
> education is supposed to open one's mind.  Someone who is an advocate of
> racial separation in dating is being very closeminded.  With few exceptions,
> the more educated people become, the more tolerant and less racist they
> become.  In that sense, the comments are ignorance.


	Manish had written earlier that our parents, the "first generation
South Asian immigrants," were "professional" and "educated."  He also says that 
these immigrants are the ones who oppose intermarriage.  However, in the same
paragraph, he states that educated people are less "closedminded" and more
"tolerant."  Confused?  I certainly am.  Totally contradictory statements run
amok.


	Manish, if educated people are so tolerant, why are the first
generation immigrants, many of whom are doctors, engineers, professors, etc.,
so opposed to intermarriage?


> I agree with much of what you say.  Yet this is no defense of Maneesh
> [from Vanderbilt]'s views.  If you agree that cross-cultural dating and
> marriage is wrong, please be prepared to back up your beliefs.

	
        I thought that you long-hairs at Berkeley, more than anyone else, would
be in my corner.  Diversity and multiculturalism contribute a great deal to the
educational experience, and while I hate affirmative action, a certain amount
of diversity should be maintained at universities to promote cultural
awareness.


	This kind of diversity would be destroyed if all the cultures mixed
into one homogenous mass (I don't buy that "one world, one race BS for a minute
- I can't even dignify that sort of thinking with a response)


	Aside: Some of you have sent me private E-mail expressing your support; 
I wanted to reply to all of you, but I accidently purged my mail file.  I can
understand why you wouldn't want to post such "incorrect" messages on the
board, but could you please e-mail me again?  

	Especially the lady from U. of Florida, and the guy from Notre Dame.


				Truly Yours,

						Maneesh
From: rangok@wpi.WPI.EDU (Rangaswamy Keshavan)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Interracial Dating, ABCD's, and Dissension
Date: 24 Jan 1993 03:01:57 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu


>It does make sense to express pride in whatever makes us unique as
>long as we don't promote hatred for people who are different from us.
>It also makes sense to get rid of outdated baggage and accept helpful
>and liberating values from others, without sacrificing our own.
>
I guess I was mistaken again.  I still think that Manesh's guys are ignorang
and idiotic.  Each person on this planet has his own needs, and if someone
finds that fullfilled in a person of another race, they should not be condemned
because they are destroying the gene pool.  The children of mixed marraiges
are wonderful and beautiful and have as much a right to be on this planet
as we of 'pure' breed do.  I've seen people decide not to get married for these
and caste reasons, and I think it is STUPID with capital letters.  

This is not to say that I don't think that we should promote our culture, and 
keep it alive.  The thing that I am saying, and I think anyone with any sense
will agree, is that the world is moving towards a global culture which has
never happened before in the recorded history of mankind, and this being so,
we all are going to have to accept and bring into our thinking the good points
of all the other points of the world which touch our lives and not shut them
out, including other people who may end up marrying our children.  This is a
very real possiblity which every single Indian who comes here from India must
accept, and very few do.  I know of people who have cried for years that their
children married a white person, when that person was probably far better than
anyone she would have met by the traditional methods.  My own sister has married
one of my very best friends, and he is white, and they are PERFECT for each
other.  So, when someone says something like Manesh said, I absolutely think
that person is ignorant of other people and their ways.

And that is the greatest crime of anyone on this planet at this time in 
history.

Rango
From: bt294@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Sarah Dufresne)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Indian Authors of English
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:11:54 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


Haven't seen this one in this thread:

The Inscrutable Americans-- a novel by Anurag Mathur

1991  Rupa Co. paperback

"Anurag Mathur was born in New Delhi and educated...
St. Stephen's College (Delhi) and the University of
Tulsa (Oklahoma)...lived for 3 years in the US before
returning home to India..."

S.
From: devkumar@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Devakumar Sreevijayan)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: "Indians writing in English" book list
Date: 23 Jan 1993 04:03:02 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: doc.cc.utexas.edu

In article <SMEHTA.93Jan21135639@kwela.nynexst.com> smehta@nynexst.com writes:
>
>Vikram Seth nitpicks:
>
>>      2.  From Heavenly Lake
>
>Actually called from From Heaven's Lake. This is not fiction but a
>fascinating travelogue.

        Sandeep, one good nitpick deserves another. :-) The title is
actually "From Heaven Lake", being an account of the author's travels
in China. Seth speaks fluent Mandarin and inveigled a permit to visit
Tibet from a charmed official, who was a Raj Kapoor fan and was quite
taken by Seth's spirited rendition of "Mera Jhootha Hai Japaani..."
         Seth describes very well, though without the verbal felicity
of his verses and poems. His genuine empathy for the people of China
comes across clearly, though his politics in this regard, that the
two cultures that share so much history had only been friends, appears
a trifle sentimental. Nevertheless, a most enjoyable read, one of those
read-the-whole-damn-book-in-one-sitting deals.     
         I think Seth got his PhD from Stanford in Economics, and much
of that involved a lot of field work in China; thus the fluency in
Mandarin and the visits.
      By the way, did anyone who read "The Golden Gate" notice where
Seth plugged himself in? A book of my choice, whose price is not to
exceed 5 US dollars (it may be a used book), to the first person who finds 
this out and reports to me.          

Dev 

Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: vijaypai@owlnet.rice.edu (Vijay Sadananda Pai)
Subject: Re: Interracial Dating, ABCD's, and Dissension
Organization: Rice University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:58:04 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.134349.2070@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, rrp@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (rakesh.r.patel) writes:
|> In article <C19FpC.3C@rice.edu> vijaypai@owlnet.rice.edu (Vijay Sadananda Pai) writes:
|> >The Republicans have been overwhelmingly pro-Pak and anti-Indian
|> >in their terms in government. When the dictator Zia died, they
|> >said "We hope the next leader of Pakistan is equally
|> >friendly to US interests" ... never mind the fact that Zia/Pak had/has
|> >been funding terrorists (JKLF, Sikh militants) for years.
|> 
|> The US support for Pakistan goes way before, Reagan or Bush. It is
|> an out growth of the cold war policies of the US and USSR in the 50's
|> and 60's.  It is not as simple as you make it out to be.
|> 

Kennedy and Nehru were personally close, and that was certainly
during the cold war. India and the US didn't really have problems
until the US refused to sell arms to India (under Indira Gandhi) and 
she in turn bought them from the USSR. Anyways, the Republicans
you love so much have done nothing to change this pro-Pakistan
policy, whereas at least the Democrats (specifically JFK) have
had closer relations with India.

|> >So, if you want to support bigots and Pakistanis, that's fine by me,
|> >but you'll be responsible when some Christian fanatic wins the
|> >Presidency here or when Kashmir and Punjab are taken away from
|> >the motherland.
|> 
|> What a bunch of bull! 
|> 
|> 
|> Rakesh Patel

I said it before, and I'll say it again.
The Republican party is the party of Pat "Religious War" Buchanan,
David "The Grand Wizard" Duke, George "Willie Horton" Bush, and
Jesse "The Artists, Jews, Blacks, and Immigrants are Ruining this 
Country" Helms.

If those are the people you'd support then so be it. I prefer the
party of people like Bill Clinton <who spoke to several Indian
and Asian Democratic Organizations in his race>, NC Governor
Jim Hunt <who has been meeting with Indian groups over several decades>,
and many others, who have acted without appealing to racism or 
religious intolerance.

Anyway, it's no coincidence that the Pakistan lobby has
purchased the services of one of the same ad agencies that
ran George Bush's campaign. I hope they get trounced the
same way George Bush did ... and all of it no thanks to you.

-- vp
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: malaviya@borneo.gmd.de (Ashutosh Malaviya - FUZZY)
Subject: Re: Career Choices..
Followup-To: soc.culture.indian
Reply-To: malaviya@borneo.gmd.de (Ashutosh Malaviya - Fuzzy)
Organization: GMD, German National Research Center for Computer Science
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 14:02:36 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.144123.19577@research.nj.nec.com>, rsd@ccrl.nj.nec.com
(Rajiv Dighe) writes:
|> Something I penned long long time ago on career choices in India.
|> 
|> 
|> Rajiv
|> 
|> 			Middle-Class Blues
|> 			(aka Male Menopause)
|> 
|> Engineering, Medicine or the Sciences
|> Were the only allowances
|> that were allowed as career choices
|> by our middle class deities...
|> So we silently supressed our desires
|> molded our dreams in more earthly fires 
|> Years later we have emerged
|> our creativity still submerged
|> Looking wistfully at Rushdie
|> To pen like that would make me free
|> Me on the other hand have so many thoughts
|> But to truly express them, the skills I have not
|> Vocational guidance was a joke
|> Our future full of mirrors and smoke
|> Art and Litt. a feminine domain
|> Math and Science was our reign
|> Such mind-bending stereotypes
|> Hopefully many of them have died
|> On hindsight I think of so many pleasures
|> that were denied because of a mind-closure
|> Music is one thing I would have loved to learn
|> But there was no incentive, no potential wages to earn
|> We were taught to learn by the rote
|> Independent thinking not in vogue
|> Essay-type questions to test your memory
|> All black and white- isnt that scary ?
|> I look back and see how much I had to unlearn
|> before I could even start to *learn*
|> Our inquisitive nature was systematically blunted
|> our questions artfully shunted
|> Nobody taught us how to ask Why
|> How was all that was needed to get by
|> I shake my head and wonder ruefully
|> How much potential gets converted truly
|> How many Hemingways did we turn away
|> As we walked the narrow straight middle-class way ?
|> 							RSD
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne)
Subject: Re: Interracial Dating, ABCD's, and Dissension
Reply-To: moh2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:34:12 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.012159.15875@news.vanderbilt.edu> MARDHEMS@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu () writes:
>	When I posted the message a couple of days ago, I never imagined the
>overwhelmingly negative response that would follow. If I offended or hurt
>anyone, I am truly sorry :-(

You should be more careful with your generalizations...
(not that I should talk....sigh...)

For the record, I sympathize with Deepak's indignation, but think he
went overboard.

>	Actually, in my house, Mom's in charge. Dad brings home some cash, but
>whoever controls the food controls the power. Seriously, I don't think that
>Indian households are so 'male-dominated.' I think that there is a greater
>respect for women in India than over here.

I *wish* SAWNET would let you guys read...

Preeti, check me on this?

The overwhelming consensus among women who've lived there and here
seems to be that women have far more ability to live independent,
productive, and self-satisfying lives here than in India.  The amount
of eve-teasing that goes on there is shocking.  This is respect?

I, personally, wouldn't take respect at the price exacted from Indian
women.  Please, please don't put me up on a pedestal.

>	'India Abroad' refers to Indians as the 'most affluent ethnic group in
>the U.S.' The divorce rate in India is miniscule, while in the U.S. it is
>pushing 70% (according to the 1990 Census).  

This divorce rate is in large part due to cultural acceptance of
divorce.  Far more women stay in unhappy, abusive relationships in
countries where divorce is not culturally acceptable.  I'd rather have
a high divorce rate and happier people.

>Indian students make up
>disproportionately high percentages of the top-ranked universities, and score
>much higher (on average) on standardized tests than blacks, whites, and
>Hispanics.  If a "strong family" is not responsible for this, then what is?

Strong 'cultural' pressure to succeed and excel so that your kids are
better than all the other Indian families'.  Often leading to ulcers
and mid-life-crises. :-)

Finally, I'd like to point out that Maneesh did stick to theoretical
and practical arguments without resorting to name-calling until Deepak
flamed him.  Could we please keep this discussion on a civilized
level?

Oh, and if it wasn't clear by now, I disagree whole-heartedly with
Maneesh's arguments.

Though you all should know that by now. :-)

 - Amirthi
-- 
We may affirm absolutely that nothing great in the world has ever been
accomplished without passion.

					 - George Hegel
Organization: Doctoral student, Psychology, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA