HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rsanders@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (RRobert M Sanders)
Subject: Re: Taiwan Baseball Players
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 02:05:23 GMT

In article <1992Aug22.234839.25476@crash> uzun@crash.cts.com (Roger Uzun) write
s:
>After watching the Olympic baseball team from Taiwan march on to
>a silver medal at the Olympics, I began wondering what
>the structure for baseball in Taiwan is.  They are quite successful
>at the Little League, and Olympic levels, that is clear, but
>what do the players who participated in the Olympic games
>do for a living?   Are these professional baseball players?
>Do they have regular non baseball jobs, and if so how much
>time do they get off to practice and play together.
>Are the olympic players the same guys who 10-15 years ago
>were playing on the championship little league teams?
>
>In short, how is baseball structured, for adults, in Taiwan.
>Do the best players wind up in Japan?  Playing pro
>baseball for Japanese teams.
>
>-Roger
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>bix: ruzun
>NET: uzun@crash.cts.com

As a follow up question, where do kids play baseball in Taiwan?  I lived there 
for more than one year and travelled extensively around the island.  Though I 
saw many basketball players and quite a few tennis players I never say any 
baseball players.  I would like to watch the kids play (I don't care so much 
about pro ball).  Next time I go to Taiwan where should I go?

Robert Sanders
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:12436 soc.culture.korean:3966
From: junglee@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Jung S. Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Two Chinas and Two Koreas
Date: 26 Aug 92 14:55:46 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.korean
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <BtKMLt.L9K@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, klg0582@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Ken-Huang Lin) writes:
> S. Korean government cheating.  Even when Taipei made it public that
> the normalization between S. Korea and China was imminent, S. Korea
> still denied it.  S. Korean President was joking when he said "while
> making new friend S. Korea won't forget old friend".  S. Korea didn't
> notify Taipei with enough time for Taiwan to prepare.  She even
  
  Personally, I never like whatever those dickheads in S. Korea gov't
  do. Have you seen Roh wearing a suit without tie and collar out of 
  coat on Korean T.V news? What is he trying to prove, stupid idiot
  dont' know how to wear suit? How about others following him?
  There must be all fucking stupid, brainless shitheads running our
  gov't.

  Pardon my words. But gotta say what I have in my mind.

> blocked Taiwan's intention to sell the embassy like what Taiwan did
> with the embassy in USA more than 10 years ago.

  Perhaps, S. Korea is getting something from Mainland China for that.
> 
>   Being an independent country, S. Korea yielded to China too much,
> making herself look like a dependency of China.  In my understanding
> of Chinese culture, China would treat a dependency with charity but no
> respect.  Feel sorry for Korean people.

  Don't pity on any as like I don't pity on you.
  Shit happens. Get it over fast. Tough gets me going all the time.
  Don't worry when time comes everything will be clear for everyone.
> 
> Ken-Huang Lin
> khlin@uiwpls.ece.uiuc.edu

Jung S. Lee
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: ACHEN@ucs.indiana.edu
Subject: test message
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 22:53:56 GMT

This is a test.  Please ignore this.  Hello there to all the Taiwan
Independence people.  There is a real Chinese sitting beside me and
watching every word I am typing.  So, I cannot express my thoughts
until later.  Talk to you later.

S Chen
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: adamy@milton.u.washington.edu (Erh-Chun Yeh)
Subject: Re: Look ! Stupid Taiwanese !!
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 04:40:13 GMT

slzw0@cc.usu.edu writes:


>From: mtl@cs.brown.edu (Ming-Tsung Lu), Brown Computer Science Dept.

>>We Taiwanese may be stupid, but we know how to spell plane. It's
>>PLANE, not PLAIN.
>>Don't worry, Dan doesn't spell very well either.
>>Do you get that? !


>Mr. Lu:

>  Thank you so much for checking spell for me.
>  I will hire you as a my spell chAcker.   :-)
>
I am afraid that you do not know how to use a spelling ckecker, do you?
According to my observation, you probably also need a grammar checker.
Really, now I feel I am a little stupid. I don't even know how a smart
guy looks like. Yeah, maybe a smart guy always spells wrong and perhaps
...speaks wrong...

A stupid guy named Adam Yeh
( I guess you were under a spell, get it? Smart Guy?! )
From: chang@curtiss.seas.ucla.edu (Fengteng Chang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Language
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:40:06 GMT
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles

In article <1992Sep1.041228.6428@engage.pko.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li) writes:
>During the Japanese rule, were Taiwanese forced to speak/write Japanese, 
>and adopt Japanese names, etc assimilation policy?

It is in WWII that Japanese forced Taiwanese to speak/write
Japanese and adopt names.

>I have only read literature written by Taiwanese writers which published
>recent fifteen years. Have you read any Hakka and Taiwanese aboriginals 
>literature?

There are many famous Taiwanese writers who are Hakka.
Wu2 Jo2-Liu2, Chung1 Li3-Ho2, Chung1 Jao4-Jen4, Li3 Chiao2
are all Hakka writers.
In their novels, the dialogs are certainly Hakka style.
There are several aboriginal writers in the last decade
who wrote poems and novels.


Fengteng


Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:12476 soc.culture.korean:4001
From: ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Korean Bashing (Re: All you d*ckhead friend-betraying Koreans!!!)
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:25:43 GMT
Organization: Muskingum College

In article <1992Aug26.163112.18553@terminator.cc.umich.edu>, ywh@asterix.merit.edu (Woody Huang) writes:

> 	b. UNLIKE taiwan, south korean government is an ELECTED goverment.
> 	   themselves in order to get re-elected.  As for what groups' 

	** I challenge you with anything: ROC government is also an
	   ELECTED one.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: shao@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (SHAO CHUNG-SHANG)
Subject: Re: Korean Bashing (Re: All you d*ckhead friend-betraying Koreans!!!)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 03:15:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.171055.8519@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>
>President Lee, unlike the president of South Korea, was elected not by a
>popular mandate but rather by the "Veteran" legislators.

one question: in united states, a president candidate A has more votes from
              american people than candidate B does.  will the candidate A 
              be the next president?
              
the answer is: not necessary.


cs shao.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:12766 soc.culture.china:24597
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Language
Date: 2 Sep 92 18:46:38 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.taiwan
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Aug31.212815.15941@beaver.cs.washington.edu> chou@cs.washington.edu (Pai Hsiang Chou) writes:
>But most important factor is the grammar.  H"ol"o is the only
>one that's grammatically toned. 

That's not true.  Cantonese is also grammatically toned.  According to
Ramsey in _The Languages of China_ by Robert Ramsey (Princeton
University Press, 1987) page 104

  Tones are also used as a kind of rudimentary inflection.  Tonal
  differences distinguish degree deictics ('this much,' 'that much')
  from manner deictics ('this way,' 'that way').  A change in the 
  tone of a verb change in the tone of a verb changes the aspect of
  the action:

    lai2 'come' -> lai* 'have come'
    ma:i4 'buy' -> ma:i* 'have bought'

  In Taishan dialect, pronouns are pluralized by changing the tone.

Also according to an article in the "Journal of Chinese Linguistics,"
Cantonese has a complicated set of tone changes for word derivations
(using a noun as a verb for example).

So it's not true that Min-nan is the only dialect with grammatical 
tone changes.

>If it was the ancient Han language, then why none of the other
>languages have this feature? 

All the dialects have their own peculiarities.  Remember most of the
dialects originated around 600-700 A.D.  At that time, none of the
modern European languages existed.  

>In any case, we can only talk about theories by interpreting
>the facts/historical records, and conclude what is plausible.

According to Ramsey (page 37)

   We must careful, of course, not to exaggerate the importance of
   these [non-Han] substrata in the structure of the modern Chinese
   language.  The Southern dialects are not "mixed languages," they
   are Chinese. 

Your assertion that Min-nan dialect is not even a Sino-Tibetan
language is one that I have never heard before.  According to what I
have read, the Min dialect is somewhat unique in that it branched off
from the other Chinese dialects at an early time.  The other Chinese
dialects branched off from "middle Chinese" which was used in the Tang
dynasty.  The Min dialect on the other hand, branched off earlier and
thus retains initial sounds from archaic Chinese that have been lost
in the other dialects.  (Most of this information comes from reading
the "Journal of Chinese Linguistics")

Since your assertion contradicts my reading on the subject, I hope you
don't mind if I ask for a reference on your assertion that Min-nan is
not a member of the Sino-Tibetan family.

Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:12481 soc.culture.korean:4003
From: phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Korean Airline flights unwelcome in Taiwanese Airspace, etc. [FWD]
Date: 27 Aug 92 17:00:44 GMT
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.

In article <1992Aug27.122036.3660@vax.muskingum.edu> ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department) writes:

>	** Stubborn means holding principle.

What is the principle of a nation anyway?  It is seeking the most benefit
for its own people.  I think Korea is doing just that, i.e., holding very
well to its principle very stubbornly even at the face of all these
accusations that we see.

>	   You are not stubborn means you are drifting by short
>	   benefits.

True.  Korea would have drifted toward Taiwan for short peaceful time
ignoring the huge potential of Chinese market betraying the principle that
the government owes to its own people.

>	   Whatever you do, you can't make a friend over 80 years
>	   this way.

The principle of nation is not to make friends and socialize.  It is to
prosper and provide the best resource to its level.  Korea will prosper
over 80 years this way.  Thank you very much.

>	   If that is all you want, your life has no value.

This space is too limited to express all I want.  I cannot write everything
I want everytime I write.  So, please assume there is whole lot more that I
want than what I mentioned here.  Therefore, consider the possibility that
my life may actually have some value.

>	   Enjoy your valueless life.

Wish you the same.

James Choi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.korean
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Korean Bashing (Re: All you d*ckhead friend-betraying Koreans!!!)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 16:35:37 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.110048.3666@vax.muskingum.edu> ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department) writes:
>In article <1992Aug27.171055.8519@leland.Stanford.EDU>, claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>> 
>> President Lee, unlike the president of South Korea, was elected not by a
>> popular mandate but rather by the "Veteran" legislators.
>
>	** Which one is better? 
>
>	   Why? 

I dunno.  It's irrelevant.  Which one is more democratic?  Queen Elizabeth I
(not II) might run England better than John Major and his cabinet, but I
seriously doubt anyone would advocate a return to royal supremacy.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li)
Subject: Re: Language
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 19:00:46 GMT


In article <1992Aug29.062853.28358@beaver.cs.washington.edu>, chou@cs.washington.edu (Pai Hsiang Chou) writes...
>In article <Btq9o5.CGo@acsu.buffalo.edu> v999qx29@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu writes:
> 
>H"ol"o are a sinitized people.  Taiwanese H"ol"o
>people were not only people in the frontier, but they
>have also been people of colony under Japanese and Chinese.
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Taiwan was colony of Japan not China. In 1945 Taiwanese were happy Taiwan 
return to China but relations went sour due to 228 incident. Taiwan and 
Chinese are Han/Chinese people share the same heritage for thousand years
so saying "Taiwan is colony under Chinese" is an appropriate statement.

>Furthermore, the oppressive and destructive language
>policy in education and media in the past 40 years
>have caused tremendous psychological wounds in non-Mandarin
>Taiwanese speakers.  With new children being born every day,
>if we don't take actions soon, this linguistic wound
>will be fatal, and our mothertongues will be lost forever.

Taiwanese should not feel Holo inferior to Mandarin at all. I heard Holo is
authentic Han/Chinese dialect (ancestor of Mandarin??). Holo and Mandrain
is the same language but different dialect.

In the early 30s, Beijing dialect was chosen among many different ones as
our common language (and still is in the Mainland China, Canton and FuJin
people did not complain). This dialect-unification policy continues after
KMT retreated to Taiwan. The policy has no intension to discriminate 
different dialects and customs but to let us understand each other easily.
The way of promoting policy in Taiwan has been openly criticized recently, 
for example, one retired Taiwanese officer remembered he was working hard 
but hardly got promoted because of his bad Mandarin. That was mistakes.

Personally, I think we should continue this policy but all dialects should
coexist peacefully.

BTW, just heard Holo Opera is coming to New York City in September and will 
perform at Taipei Theater which owned by Taiwan government.

Tom
From: park@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Yongsup Park)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: One question to netters from ROC ..
Date: 30 Aug 92 01:28:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Aug30.012803.16747
Followup-To: soc.culture.korean
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.

I just want to ask one question to netters from ROC.
If cutting realtion with ROK by ROC is in some way helpful to the recovery
of main land(presumably the ultimate official goal of ROC gov), would you
support such a decision by ROC government ?

-- 
----
Yongsup Park                 / park@casbah.acns.nwu.edu / Why do I insist on
Physics and Astronomy Dept. / park@anmsd3.msd.anl.gov  / AT&T ?  Because they 
Northwestern University    / B40180@ANLCV1.BITNET     / hire physicists.
From: jt2o+@andrew.cmu.edu (John Teng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: a joke,just a joke
Date: 30 Aug 92 09:36:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.IecEQGC00WB6446WN4
Distribution: usa
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

hahahahahahah!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: yewang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Yenwen Wang)
Subject: Re: The Foreign Minister of PRC said ...
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 18:37:50 GMT

In article <HJj-pz#@engin.umich.edu> chen@caen.engin.umich.edu (Jian Chen) writes:
>
>This year, ROC government got some diplomatic relationships with small
>countries by giving them a huge amount of money. I believe this made 
>the Foreign Minister really unhappy and he did what he said one year
>ago. I wish ROC government can be wise and do not make any aggresive
>move. Otherwise, some of netters will cry again and say "a long time loyal
>friend" S. Africa betray them. Probably, all of the dirty words today against 
>S. Korea will be used for S. Africa.

I wonder if people in Taiwan still care whether S. Africa will
maintain diplomatic relationship with ROC. After more than 20
years of such humiliation, I would imagine people and Foreign
Ministry think this way:


Things cannot get worse than this. This is actually good for us.
Because starting today, everything we do is going to be a PROGRESS.
Let's start from Ground Zero.

Mainland Chinese, especially Mr. Qian, will never understand because
they cannot not imagine what we've been through. 
>
>	May God bless all of Chinese.
>
>
>J Chen
>Department of Chemistry
>University of Michigan

I only hope one day Chinese people and goverment will realize that
you need to give your fellow Chinese on Taiwan respect they deserve.
That way, they will be more than happy to 'sit down and talk'.
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  Yenwen Wang                        wangy@kaa.eng.ohio-state.edu
  The Ohio State University          yewang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.korean
From: ywh@asterix.merit.edu (Woody Huang)
Subject: Re: Korean Bashing (Re: All you d*ckhead friend-betraying Koreans!!!)
Organization: Merit Network, Inc.  Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 17:30:42 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.122543.3661@vax.muskingum.edu> ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.163112.18553@terminator.cc.umich.edu>, ywh@asterix.merit.edu (Woody Huang) writes:
>
>> 	b. UNLIKE taiwan, south korean government is an ELECTED goverment.
>> 	   themselves in order to get re-elected.  As for what groups' 
>
>	** I challenge you with anything: ROC government is also an
>	   ELECTED one.

	I admit I made a mistake by claiming Taiwanese government is NOT
	an ELECTED government.  Since ELECTION by its literal meaning
	only stands for a process of voting, which does not imply a
	GENERAL-ELECTION or ELECTION BY PEOPLE, I have to admit that
	Taiwanese government is also an ELECTED government - ELECTED
	by themselves through bribing (raising, to be more exact) a herd
	of representatives who have no representation at all.  I should've
	used 'PEOPLE-ELECTED government' instead of just 'ELECTED government'
	in my previous posting.

	I thank for Mr. Law's carefulness in catching me on this.  I will
	try to be more careful with wording next time.

	Now the real question is: 
	After next presidential election, can we say Taiwanese government
	IS a PEOPLE-ELECTED government?

	- woody
From: tylee@austin.ibm.com (Ter-Yuan Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: No Taiwanese?!
Date: 24 Aug 92 18:22:19 GMT
Organization: IBM Austin Advanced Workstation Division
Originator: tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com


In article <17AUG92.09051113@twncu865.ncu.edu.tw>, u322543@twncu865.ncu.edu.tw writes:
> 
>    In Aug.11, KMT female Legislator, Chow1-Chuan2, said,
>    "Those KMTs who speak Taiwanese are bastard. (Bai4-Lei4)"
>    Oh, I feel so sorry for the hundred thousands of KMTs, who
>    speak Taiwanese as their mother language.
> 

You should know the background in why she wanted to spout that diatribe.
The reason, IMHO, she said that, is because most of the DPPers converse
dialect (Min-Nan or Hakka, ...) among themselves. They don't use the official
language, Mandarin. To be differentiated from those DPP mobs, CNPers should talk 
Mandarin in public at least. Now, the heck is that even the CNPers talk
their mother dialects (Hakka, ....) in public. That makes them not
different from the DPP mobs.


> --
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> - Yishao Lai                  -
> = u322543@twncu865.ncu.edu.tw =
> -       :o      wow           -
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-- 
/* The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of IBM's.         *\
 * Take care and have a nice day.                                            *
\* Ter-Yuan Lee                                                              */
From: txc6266@ultb.isc.rit.edu (T.X. Cheng )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Taiwan Baseball Players
Date: 23 Aug 92 23:53:43 GMT
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Originator: txc6266@ultb

In article <1992Aug22.234839.25476@crash> uzun@crash.cts.com (Roger Uzun) writes:
>After watching the Olympic baseball team from Taiwan march on to
>a silver medal at the Olympics, I began wondering what
>the structure for baseball in Taiwan is.  They are quite successful
>at the Little League, and Olympic levels, that is clear, but
>what do the players who participated in the Olympic games
>do for a living?   Are these professional baseball players?

Just like most of NCAA basketball players, some colleges and universities
here in US give scholarships for superior basketball players.  A lot of 
enterprises in Taiwan hire baseball players to support their living.
But anyway, by the definition of the internation baseball association,
they are amateur players.

>Do they have regular non baseball jobs, and if so how much
>time do they get off to practice and play together.

Yes, they have, but I guess that they spend most of their time on baseball
but not on their job.

>Are the olympic players the same guys who 10-15 years ago
>were playing on the championship little league teams?
>

Yes, most of them were.

>In short, how is baseball structured, for adults, in Taiwan.
>Do the best players wind up in Japan?  Playing pro
>baseball for Japanese teams.
>

Not exactly.  In Taiwan, they have their own PRO baseball league, but some
players chose to go to Japan for higher wage.

>-Roger
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>bix: ruzun
>NET: uzun@crash.cts.com
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:12711 soc.culture.korean:4137
From: ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Korean Airline flights unwelcome in Taiwanese Airspace, etc. [FWD]
Date: 1 Sep 92 14:10:45 -0600
Followup-To: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.korean
Organization: Muskingum College

In article <Aug.31.16.42.41.1992.25177@gandalf.rutgers.edu>, junglee@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Jung S. Lee) writes:

	** You ask:
>> > I must ask you who sets the standard? Who?

	** I am trying to say: Many people have the same feeling toward
	   one situation. That is how standards are set.

	   But people's mind changed with time.

	   However, some principles (standards) did not change for
	   centuries. These principles must be closer to the truth.
           As a person today who can only see and think for a few
	   tenth of years, we should consider very seriously to abide
	   these principles that did not change for thousands of years.

	   Two of them are:

		1) Don't betray your friend. and
		2) Be patriotic.

> Now let's go back to Taiwan. How come Taiwan doesn't follow the standard
> which regconize Mainland China as legitimate China supported by almost 
> every country in the world? 

	** Taiwan's government is trying to be patriotic.
	   Meanwhile, Korean government violated the first principle
	   I listed above.

>> 	** So you and your girl friend share the same principles.
> 
> No, I will put it lots in common, not same principle
> 
	** So you and your girl friend are not sharing the same
	   principles. Then why don't you find some one who can.


>> 	   Then answer me: Why do we have so much divorces in our
>> 	   society? Does that mean the "standard principles" among
>> 	   a couple "changed"? 
> 
> Yes, it can be changed. But others can be factors of divorce.
> And I don't see anything wrong with change in their principle.
> Change is good.

	** Change is good. So are you saying divorce is good.
	   Those who don't divorce obviously don't change.

	** Overall, what I am trying to say is:

	   Korean government did something to Taiwan which a normal person
	   shouldn't do to his/her good friends. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.korean