HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: apn207s@fermat.maths.monash.edu.au (Mr A Dempster)
Subject: Re: Crones (was re: SANDMAN: Annotation 40)
Organization: Monash University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:40:13 GMT

In article <C16BAD.8zC@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lady Johanna Constantine) writes:
|> In rec.arts.comics.misc Mr A Dempster writes:
|> 
|> stuff deleated (Some of it was mine, so s'okay)

I've deleted even more this time, so I hope it's still okay...

|> >|>
|> >|> Actually, it really ought to be:
|> >|> MOTHER -- Eve
|> >|> MAIDEN -- The first Eve (The nameless)
|> >|> CRONE -- Lilith
|> >|>
|> >|> Opinions?
|> 
|> >Don't have the issue in front of me, but...
|> 
|> >I came to the same conclusion as Elmo (or was it LJC?) when I originally
|> >read this story.  The primary role of Lilith here was that of mother of all
|> >while it was specifically stated that Eve lived to a very old age.  The
|> >picture at the end of Eve's story seems to back this up: Adam's last wife
|> >shown as an old woman (Crone), while the pictures of Lilith showed her as
|> >quite young and attractive (not at all Crone-like).
|> > However, Adam's last wife *was* the Mother of all humanity, and being the 
|> >mother of demons and other icky stuff sounds like the sort of thing a Crone
|> >would do, so I can see where you're coming from....
|>  
|> Okay, about the content of the post.
|> The Crone isn't bad or evil or anything.  She's just old.  Well,
|> i suppose if you're afraid of death, then she might scare you, as
|> in the Fates she's the one with the shears.  But I like to think of
|> the Cailleach, the crone who made the mountians by dropping pebbles
|> from her skirt.  Just a pov, and really this belongs in alt.pagan
|> more than here, or alt.mythology, but just thought I'd throw in my
|> .02.  Eve seemed more like the crone, and that was the form she was
|> drawn as in that particular panel anyway, so I thought it worked fine.
|> 
|> Crones aren't icky.  That's just the picture some poeple like to paint.
|> 

  I didn't actually say that I thought the Crone was bad/evil/anything.  Rather,
this was the impression that I got from reading sasha's post.  *He* appeared to 
believe that Lilith was the Crone for exactly these reasons. I saw nothing in 
the story to support this view as Lilith was consistently portrayed as being 
young, and the primary characteristic of the Crone is her age, not her 
'alignment'. There was, however, an emphasis on Lilith as a mother-figure, 
albeit to yucky demon-types.  No/little mention was made of the third Eve's 
role as a mother, but it *was* pointed out that she lived to a very old age, so 
I had come to the conclusion that Lilith was equivalent to the Mother and Eve
was equiv. to the Crone.  My post was in disagreement with sasha, who seemed to
be saying Lilith was the Crone ('just 'cos she's bad').

  (I also didn't say that the Crone was icky, but Lilith's kids were.)


           Walter (hoping this post works better than last time...)

-- 

"Living without hallucinations is like breathing 
 with only one nostril"
                       -Weisshaupt
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 09:10:25 -0500 
From: Anatole Wilson <aw3a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Harlan Ellison

>Did anyone else see HE's comentary on Superman on the Sci-Fi channel?
>I thought it was dreadfully funny.
> 
>Cathy the .sigless

I can't get the Sci-Fi Channel. Can you share what you remember about
his comments?


Anatole Wilson                  "If anyone objects to anything I say,
-----------------                I am prepared not only to retract it,
                                 But to deny under oath that I ever said it
                                 in the first place."     
                                                               

Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lady Johanna Constantine)
Subject: Re: Sandman -- Brief Lives 7
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 03:21:26 GMT

"Pamela J. Bernhardt" <pb2i+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>My two cents.

>1) Didn't Dream kill off destruction in A Dolls House?  He unmade the
>guy!  And even if he remade him, I don't think that he'd be fool enough
>to make him that horrible. 

Pam, you meant to type Corinthian, didn't you.
I know how you feel.  I once accidently started a thread on Duck Tape.

>2) Why didn't Delirium go and ask Orpheus?  She is his aunt, and it
>would have saved Dream from doing it.  

Del can't stay lucid for long, and if she is in her clueless state,
they'd be on the island for a while, and in hsi present state, I doubt Dream
could handle it.

Besides, we got to see her count cherry stones.

>"It is ... Refreshing to see you so collected."
>"Stick it"

Luv that quote.

LJC
-- 
Lady Johanna Constantine* Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will
tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu   * endure when mere facts are dust, and ashes, and
Disclaimer - huh?       * forgot.      -Dream of the Endless (and Neil G.)
LJC of the Net.Trenchcoat.brigade (Hi Elmo ;)
Xref: sparky rec.arts.comics.misc:13007 alt.comics.lnh:322
From: mre@kepler.unh.edu (Monty Python's Life of MikE)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc,alt.comics.lnh
Subject: LNH: MikE's Mutterings (short)
Date: 25 Jan 1993 06:19:01 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

I just set up my new .plan today.  Those of you on Internet can finger me
at mre@kepler.unh.edu.
wReam, you'll love it.  But are you on Internet?  Tsk.
--MikE...doing my part to promote LNHism.

-- 
********************************************************************************
Mike Escutia       | PLIABLE LAD OF THE LNH  |    UNH's #1 Quantum Leap fan
mre@kepler.unh.edu =============================================================
MikE@unh.edu       | CS Majors Rule!	     |PAD, Valiant, & Tick fan unequaled
********************************************************************************
    Follow the adventures of the Net.Patrol over in alt.comics.lnh and enjoy!
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: tgt33358@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Thanatos)
Subject: Re: Urges of a 501 murderous rage...
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 07:13:03 GMT

In article <1jvop0$nb@agate.berkeley.edu> goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) writes:
>	What was that PAD said again, about "vicious and arrogant" threads?
>
Hey, I got a copy of it!  (I mean, how many times does someone of his caliber
yell at you in an open forum.  You gotta _save_ these things!

Here it is:

From: Peter_A_David@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: Lynching, anyone?
Date: Sun,  2 Aug 92 19:45:19 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: na
  <BsBxJC.5zG@news.cso.uiuc.edu> <63222@cup.portal.com>
  <BsDqAs.3sy@news.cso.uiuc.edu>

So let's see if I've got this straight, "Thanatos."

1)  Venting one's spleen and openly calling for the slaying of comic pros who
have produced work you dislike is okay, because it's all in fun and a healthy
release.

2)  My stating that I find such actions to be deplorable is not doing the 
"right thing," because I might influence people.

3)  Anyone who I have influenced, or might influence, or even might, heaven
forbid, agree with me, is an obsequious slave.

I don't know what world you live in.  I live in one where celebrities are
gunned down by people who needed no urging at all.  I live in one where
an actor friend of mine was attacked by a crazed fan in an elevator.
I live in one where a fan expressed his dislike of a creator's work by 
throwing a cup of warm vomit on him (as anyone who had read Harlan
Ellison's "Xenogenesis" is aware.)

Far be it from me to endeavor to tread on anyone's right to self-expression.
Nevertheless I am forced to do the "wrong thing" and express my personal
distaste for it.  If anyone wants to join in the lynch mob mentality and
advocate violence, go right ahead.  You certainly don't need my approval.
And heck, it's harmless fun.  That's what the kid next door told me years
ago when he was setting off 4th of July firecrackers...before he landed in
the hospital.

PAD








                              BEAST:  An excellent plan, Alex.  Because if
                              we nail X-Force, then we'll get Cable.

                              GUIDO:  Oh, good!  Including HBO?  And maybe
                              the Disney Channel for Rahne...

                              ALEX:  Quiet!  You're embarrassing me!

                                             --X-Factor #84


___________________________________________________________________________
Anway, there it was.  I'll probably get yelled at for reposting, but if
it saves the lives of someone out there, hey, it was worth it... 

-- 
I don't mind being the smartest	    / Thanatos, DeathUrge, Master of Unknown
man in the world...I just wish it   \ Time and Space tgt33358@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu 
wasn't this one...	       	    / It's a Zen thing... 
	-Ozymandias 		    \	 you wouldn't understand...
From: khale@camilla.Eng.Sun.COM (Abhijit Khale)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: This Week's Trivia and Gossip Column
Date: 24 Jan 1993 07:04:48 GMT
Organization: Sun
NNTP-Posting-Host: camilla-50

In article <1993Jan24.054218.25604@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>rkelly@carina.unm.edu (Robert Kelly):
>>Did you know...

>>        A dark and foreboding moralistic male spell-slinger, former
>>                member of the JLA, gets his shoes pissed on?
>
>Was PS really a member of the Justice League?  (What was his power?)>>

Yes, he was a  member. Was made one  in JL # 103 or so. He wasnt really a re-
gular member : turned up mostly as a guest star in various stories. As for h-
is powers, they were as ambiguous then as now. 

>>        A certain DC comics moralistic female spell-slinger, former
>>                member of the JLA, smokes the Ganja?

Well, Zatanna wasnt really moralistic. At least, not in the sense that she wo-
uld preach a lot or anything. 

However, as a fan of Zatanna since way back when (JLA fifty-something to be 
precise), I found the smoking part to be really objectionable. I dont care if
John or his normal cast get stoned, but I dont care to see a relatively main-
streeam heroine do that. Also, she was used badly : Dillion achieved the re-
markable feat of making her look ugly (especially her hair)  and Ennis put
some really atrocious dialogue into her mouth. 

Sigh. In the last 9 years, we've seen just one excellent portrayal of Zatanna
(Books of Magic #2). We've seen a number of atrocious and mediocre portray-
als. I would add this to the list of medicore portrayals. 

Abhijit
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lady Johanna Constantine)
Subject: Re: solar reckoning in Sandman
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 07:16:28 GMT

dhenry@plains.NoDak.edu (David R. Henry) writes:

>>Maybe they're at different altitudes.  Besides, only at the equinoxes does
>>the sun rise and set at opposite points on the horizon.  To judge by the
>>flowers on Ms. Constantine's grave, it's well past the vernal equinox.
>>And for all we know Orpheus has borrowed a cloaking device from Star Trek.

>So Dream should be able to trace him through his engine emissions, right?

I don't see why not.  Lucien can run a level three diognastic, and
then test.......


LJC

-- 
Lady Johanna Constantine* Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will
tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu   * endure when mere facts are dust, and ashes, and
Disclaimer - huh?       * forgot.      -Dream of the Endless (and Neil G.)
LJC of the Net.Trenchcoat.brigade (Hi Elmo ;)
From: sam@hamlet.umd.edu (Sam)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Subscibing to this news group
Date: 27 Jan 93 01:49:45 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

I'm posting this for a friend who doesn't have internet access other than
mail.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sam,
   Please post my request on rec.arts.comics.misc.  I'm hoping that there is an
internet subscription available for this group.  Please include my internet
address so any replies can be sent to me directly.  Thanks for the help.

-Stu

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stu's inet mail address: "0003647572@mcimail.com"
From: rkelly@carina.unm.edu (Robert Kelly)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: This Week's Trivia and Gossip Column
Date: 24 Jan 1993 03:23:30 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: carina.unm.edu


	Senator Bob's Wild and Wacky This-Week-In-Comics 
		    Trivia and Gossip Column


Some interesting, of the cuff comments about Sandman, Next Men, Hellblazer,
	Legion of Super Heros and Engima.



Spoilers?  Sort of.

Did you know...

        A certain DC comics moralistic female spell-slinger, former
                member of the JLA, smokes the Ganja?

        A dark and foreboding moralistic male spell-slinger, former
                member of the JLA, gets his shoes pissed on?

        A certain dark and foreboding vegetable-thing--in no way
                related to the JLA--supports drug abuse?

        That DC comics is now in the running for the Manga of
                the Week Award with its new Legionnaires book?
                An Editor-who wouldn't go-on-the-record hints
                that they are targeting the Japanese-American and
                Wannebe Japanese markets, ESPECIALLY with their 
		new "DRAGON MAGE" addition to spandex-clones.

        A jet-setting extra-large legionnaire is now wearing knee
                and elbow pads?  Senator Bob sez, "Get a new costume."

	And just what is it with Cat Women nowadays?   Pantha, Tigra, 
		Catspaw... Senator Bob wants to know why dark furry women 
		are so hot?  Not that I have anything against dark furry
		women... in fact, some of my best friends...

	Quote of the week? "We're here to inspire today's youth"  or maybe
		"As you know, going it alone...  it's always a little rough."
		Does this mean we'll see Sean Erin and the blonde alchemical
		twinkie modelling Calvin Kleins together?  Makes one wonder
		about who plays the Cheif?

	In more dustier books, Barnabas the dog is escalated Mr. Nobody 
		status for witty repartees?  Remember, dear readers, 
		always keep your kitchens dog-free.

	Artist of the month does not go to Destruction.  Makes one wonder
		what his food will taste like.

	Delirium, this issue, pulls out the butch factor and dominates 
		one of her brothers.  And she recommends we don't 
		eat green mouse ice cream--I, too, believe that is very
		important.

	And, while Tall, Pale and Dreamy doesn't actually get some, he does 
		at least talk to a little head this month...

	Finally, Speaking of heads, there's a brain sucker lose in my comic
		book.  And a lizard.  And a great in-the-street sex scene.
		Or was it a rape?  I'm sure the Cerebus fans could tell us.
		:-) :-)

	Until next time... kiss-kiss-happy-happy.



Senator Robert Kelly (NM-L)
rkelly@triton.unm.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
			* To speak is to lie
			* To live is to collaborate
			* Everyone is a coward when faced with the Nova Ovens
				_Nova__Express_, William S. Burroughs

	
	
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 08:27:54 -0500 
From: Anatole Wilson <aw3a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: I miss Krypto...

>>You know, I really miss Krypto.  He was a great character.
>>Everytime he showed up, it made the issue for me.
>>And then Byrne comes along and gets rid of him.
>>Geez, I'm depressed. (I know, it's only a commic book.)
> 
>Hey, at least Krypto has a chance of coming back - what about Beppo the 
>Supermonkey or Comet the Superhorse? And I suppose you don't even want
>to consider Batdog. Sigh . . . 

Haven't you been reading Batman? Ace the Bat-Hound made his comeback a
year or two ago. With Stanley and His Monster returning to the scene,
and 'Mazing Man soon to become leader of the Justice League, :)  Can
Krypto be far behind?


Anatole Wilson                  "If anyone objects to anything I say,
-----------------                I am prepared not only to retract it,
                                 But to deny under oath that I ever said it
                                 in the first place."
From: Peter_A_David@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Annotated Future Imperfect (Long)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 04:12:42 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

A)  Yes, that's the nega-bands as a planter (they've been in Rick's apartment
since sometime around issue #379 or so--as a matter of fact, they're in #403)

B)  Yes, that's WW's tiara.  ALso, I believe a piece of Troia's outfit
is there.

PAD
From: ian@airs.com (Ian Lance Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Sandman Thoughts!!!
Date: 23 Jan 93 04:41:02 GMT
Organization: Infinity Development, Waltham, MA

arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:

>In article <1993Jan20.234458.1@fnalo.fnal.gov> morrow@fnalo.fnal.gov (Elmo the Stunt Elk) writes:
>>	Thematically, Sandman breaks down to "All stories are true". 

>Is the story "all stories are not true" also true?

Yes.

>I do expect coherence to some degree in my fiction.  Given the number of myths
>that place great importance on the untruth of other myths, to say that all
>myths are true, in any conventional sense of "true", fails the willing
>suspension of disbelief test as much as a story where everyone sings songs
>about the Vietnam War without there actually having been a Vietnam War.

You're applying the logic of the real world (not to mention science
fiction) to something that is not of the real world.  You can do it,
but why bother?

I can assert the truth of the Odyssey while denying the actual
existence of Odysseus, Penelope and Telemachus, to say nothing of
Polyphemus.

(Insert the standard Walt Whitman quote here).

If this prevents you from enjoying the story, then you shouldn't read
the story.  Not everybody has to like everything.
-- 
Ian Taylor | ian@airs.com | First to identify quote wins free e-mail message:
`` `The world can grow into an ordered place where all are equal before
    the law.  And the law is just.  Honest.  Without graft.'
   `Is that so important if you are starving?' ''
From: v124jw4y@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Benjamin R Pierce)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Valiant: Turok
Date: 28 Jan 93 18:58:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1993Jan28.103531.1@skcla.monsanto.com>, jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com writes...
>I just saw in the latested "Previews" a solicitation for a new book from
>Valiant called "Turok: Dinosaur Hunter".  According to the blurb, he's appeared
>in one other story so far (I forgot which, 'sides which I don't read the
>Valiants, so's I don't care too much to remember).
> 
>Anyway, I *definitely* remember an old comic book titled "Turok, Son Of Stone",
>can't recall the publisher, that featured a native american character, in a
>world where dinosaurs (called "thumpers") existed.
> 
>Are these the same character?
> 
>-- 
>jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"I want peace on earth, and goodwill towards man."
>"We don't do that kind of thing, we're the United States Government!"
>  -- from _Sneakers_

Yes.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jhildebr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Hildebrand)
Subject: MISC: Culled from the April Advance Comics
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 93 01:17:32 GMT


	Here are some highlights (well I think of them as highlights (grin)
your mileage may vary) from the Advance Comics for April:

Aardvark-Vanneheim
Cerebus: Mothers and Daughters Book One (Reprinting 151-162)
signed and numbered first printing $25
regular edition second printing $17

	For those who remember the Sim/Diamond wars over High Society this
one has to be a bit of a surprise. Sure enough he's offering the signed and
numbered first print directly to the distributors. (He'll probably also
take phone orders, but I don't know anything for sure about that.) Don't
know whether I'll actually spring for the extra $8 for a signed copy, this
isn't nearly as easy a case as Jaka's Story (hell yes) or Melmoth (nope) 
was.

Dark Horse:
Concrete: Eclectra #1 $2.95

	Actually I don't really care about this one, but I know a lot of
folks here like Concrete so I figured I'd point this out. First of a two
issue miniseries. 

Vertigo:
Sandman #50 $2.95

	The long lost Distant Mirrors story which has been much talked about
before. Also features an "artist's gallery" with work by Dave McKean, Scott
McLeod, John Tottleben, Michael Zulli and others. Hmm, maybe this is enough
to turn me into a drooling sandboy. Ok. Drool.

Sandman: A Game of You Hardback $29.95

	Don't think I'll spring for the hardback, but it does mention that
the collection is introduced by Samuel R. Delany (whose name Advance Comics
misspelled). That should be interesting in and of itself. (But then I like
Delany's stuff in general.)

Vertigo Visions - The Geek #1 $3.95 (64 pages)

	Apparently that's the umbrella title they're going to use for one
shot character revivals. Brother Power the Geek is first up, done by Rachel
Pollack and Michael Dalton Allred. Could be obnoxiously pretentious and
preachy, could be good.

Eclipse:
Miracleman #25 $2.95

	"The Miracleman schedule has been completely overhauled to reflect
reality." Hee hee. Anyway we should see #24 in the next couple months
hopefully.

Image:
1963: Mystery Inc. #1 $1.95

	Alan Moore, Rick Veitch, and Alan Moore having fun with 60s style
superheros. Hmm. Maybe. Dunno. (In an interview with Moore, he states that
Big Numbers is now supposed to reappear this summer with the first 3 issues
appearing monthly (the first two are reprints, then the third is the first
new issue) then moving to quarterly for the rest. I'll believe it when I
see it, but that's what he said.)

Marvel:
The Sam&Max Show #2 $2.95

	Didn't see the listing for #1 last month, but ok, this should be
fun.

Enjoy,
--
Jeff Hildebrand, The Shaggy TA		       	   hildebra@math.wisc.edu
"The following statement  is an editorial viewpoint  and does not reflect 
the views of WSRN-FM, its employees, or mutant drosophila" - Off the Cuff
"And a tenor I wouldn't give two fives for."       -       City of Angels
From: zonker@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (     Regis     )
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Sandman: Destruction and Brief Lives
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:47:27 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Northeastern University

if the prodigal returns to his post within the family (and even if he
doesn't, dated from his departure from the family to today), his stint
as a creative, non-destructive person would be a "brief life"...

just a thought...
--regis
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (E. Kontei)
Subject: Re: netter who discuss themselves
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 15:03:06 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.045739.13376@midway.uchicago.edu>, lf7z@ellis.uchicago.edu (Farmer in the Glenn) writes:
> In article <lsmith.727667584@deci> lsmith@deci.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith) writes:
> >
> >So far we have:
> >
> >Mister E(lmo) and Lady Johanna Constantine
> >
> >Now all we need are suitable replacements for Dr Occult and The Phantom
> >Stranger and the Net.Trench Coat Brigade will be ready to ride!
> 
> What, and get me shoes pissed on!?!  Pass on the Stranger, bro, and
> the Dr. is out because I'm in ABD limbo, probably for longer than Mr.
> E's hike B^x

Ok, so I'm no Doctor, but will a Master of Science! be ok?
-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			       Master of Science!
			      jester@ihlpm.att.com
		    Disclaimer: You're not dealing with AT&T