From: rpetsche@mrg.tmc.edu (Rolfe G. Petschek)
Subject: More on fantasies and discussing one or two (was) Re: Rape in any form ...
Reply-To: rpetsche@mrg.CWRU.EDU (Rolfe G. Petschek)
Organization: CWRU Physics Department
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 16:47:51 GMT

In article <SYNTH.92Jul23215930@deepthought.unm.edu> synth@deepthought.unm.edu (Synth F. Oberheim) writes:
>
>kimmyd@bnr.ca (Kimmy Posey P920) writes:
>
>Kimmy> I neglected to mention people who fantasize about being raped.
>Kimmy> All I can say here is that I feel confident that if such a
>Kimmy> person could add to that fantasy the physical, emotional, and
>Kimmy> spiritual trauma suffered by a true rape victim, the 'fun'
>Kimmy> would go out of the experience pretty quick.

I should possibly clarify my motive for suggesting that Kimmey Posey
seek a rape trauma center.  It is not that he finds rape fantasies
disgusting - this is common and normal and I did for a very long time
(all the while having them, mind).  Rather it is that both he and his 
wife seem still to suffer from the effects of her trauma (not to suggest
that this is surprising) and that I know people who have been helped in 
this way.

>This is the essence of a question I posed to DC a while back -- how
>can someone who has experienced and witnessed such trauma continue to
>fantasize about rape?  Wouldn't the reality utterly dissolve the
>fantasy in the person's head?  What is going on in the person's head --
>is the reality being acknowledged and integrated into the fantasy
>somehow?  Perhaps someone here with an introspective edge could
>enlighten us.

Well I personally have never been raped but you are welcome to my guess
on the hows and whys of a former lover's after the rape fantasies as a
rape victim:

She thought that sex was dirty/naughty.  She had been abused as a child
and brought up by a mother (not the abuser) who thought sex was dirty
and was raped more than once by her husband as an adult.  She fantasized
about rape as the victim and wanted to be controled (e.g. tied up for
sex) and/or pursued in less than obviously consensual ways e.g. as
in the fantasy which I recently posted by her lover (me) so that she could 
avoid taking responsibility for the decision to have this naughty, nasty 
but quite pleasurable thing "sex".  There were a variety of indicators
that this was the case e.g. that during a promiscuous period in her life
she would not routinely carry her diaphram and in consequence would have
unprotected sex because she could not admit to herself that she wanted
to have sex that night.  The first time I had sex with her she had
required one of her children (not herself) to invite me over for dinner.
She recognized in herself a tendency to and desire for controling men {I
was in this sense rather a disappointment I think though she did suggest
that I was better at sex than prior partners}.

As for fantasizing "for fun" her rape fantasies were, in fact, commonly
(possibly exclusively) masturbatory fantasies and I am sure that while
and prior to my knowing her she never had a non-masturbatory orgasm and,
I would guess, seldom had an orgasm without imagining herself completely 
out of control of the situation, likely as a rape victim.  I think that 
these fantasies did not integrate the reality and for example deliberately 
replaced the abuser / husband (who might have been expected to behave better) 
with evil personified - Nazis for example. 

No, she did not have an orgasm (any time) when she was actually raped.  
Actual loss of control is far less exciting than using one part of your mind 
to fool another part of your mind into thinking that you are not in control.

I remark that I think that my own fantasies of rape as a victim are for
similar reasons e.g. so that I can imagine myself having sex in ways I
never actually would/will and/or might not find legitmate at all levels of my
mind such as group or homosexual sex.  They are also virtually exclusively
masturbatory fantasies.  No, I don't think that being set upon by three
men and forced to have anal sex with them would actually be
fun, but I have had that and similar fantasies as masturbatory
fantasies, I suppose because at some level I would like to have (had, thank
you I am happily and monogamously married) anal sex with men but find
this, at some level of my mind, not quite right for me.  Whether this
makes me more reliable in understanding her motives or less I don't
know.

By the way I hope that the above may convince some that rape is/was not
entirely academic for me, either.
--
Rolfe G. Petschek			Petschek@cwru.bitnet
Associate Professor of Physics		rgp@po.cwru.edu
Case Western Reserve University		(216)368-4035 
Cleveland Oh 44106-7079