HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gts@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU (Greg Small)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Re: Fragmented IP packets: any PD implementations?
Date: 12 Nov 92 00:40:12 GMT
Reply-To: gts@garnet.berkeley.edu
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

In Message 9 Nov 92 20:17:51 Erick Engelke <utcsri!torn!watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!watserv1!demorgan.uwaterloo.ca!erick@uunet.uu.net> writes:
>A common misconception is that we will get fragmented packets from outside
>our LAN, such as gateways through slower media.  But it is the gateway's
>responsibility to reassemble the frags before putting the data onto the LAN
>at the other end.  That's why people using all these freeware TCPs didn't
>know they didn't have frag support.

Whoops :-!  It certainly is a common misconception of mine ;-).
Gateways fragment but do not reassemble, the ultimate destination host must
do so, hence the host requirement for reassembly (don't have the RFCs handy
but check Comer, vol I, 2ed, "7.7.5 Reassembly of Fragments", pp 98).

Greg Small                                           1-510-642-5979
Personal Computer Networking & Communications        gts@violet.Berkeley.EDU
Workstation Software Support Group, IST/WSS          216 Evans Hall
University of California, Berkeley, Ca 94720         1-510-643-5385 (Fax)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc,comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
From: ehrlich@world.std.com (Stuart R Ehrlich)
Subject: Problem with SMC/WD8003 on multiport transceiver
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:43:31 GMT

I have a problem  with SMC Elite16 cards attached via thicknet to
a Cabletron multiport transceiver.  Using packet drivers and
WATTCP or FTP Software's product, I can ping/telnet/ftp to
other network devices if they are _NOT_ on the same multiport.
I cannot ping/telnet/etc to the Sun workstation or terminal
server that is on the same multiport.  The sympton is that my
PC does not 'see' the traffic from these devices.

I have tried 2 different SMC cards, with both SMC's own packet
driver, and the Crynwyr version 10 driver (for WD8003).  I have
carefully checked out the IRQ and shared memory addresses for
conflicts with other cards in this Gateway 2000 486/33.

Everything works great if I use a Racal NI5210 or Xircom adapter.

Using a sniffer, it appears that maybe the ARP replies from the
devices on the same multiport come back too quickly (3 milliseconds)
for the SMC card to detect (even though it should).

Any thoughts?
From: fjr@DEC-NETMAN-K.MITRE.ORG ("Frank J. Robey")
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Location of PKTD.SYS
Date: 8 Nov 92 17:39:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: dec-netm.75389211081239fjr
Distribution: world
Organization: The MITRE Corporation


Hi all,

I am looking for an anonymous ftp location of pktd.sys. I guess I need 
this in order to run PC-NFS over a packet driver instead of the *.sys 
drivers.

I have looked around in simtel20.army.mil and wuarchive.wustl.edu and 
couldn't locate the file that I need. If someone could tell me a host to 
find it on (and the path) I'd REALLY appreciate it!!

thanks

Frank J. Robey

Disclaimer: The views expressed here are those of the author and in no way 
represent the views of the author's employer.
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: b.watson@uws.edu.au
Subject: Re: IBMTOKEN and SRT Bridges
Organization: University of Western Sydney, Macarthur
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:45:54 GMT

In article <1992Nov3.154756.6132@gw.wmich.edu>
overberger@gw.wmich.edu writes:
 
>Another question on IBMTOKEN. Seems like this thing is a pain in the &&*%^%.
>I've had this working without much trouble except using Windows with it.
>It seems to hang if you let it run in a window. Has anybody used this
>with a source routing bridge ?.  What about a transparent source routing
>bridge (ala Andrews). Can't seem to get IP to pass this rascal.
>
>On another note. Is there a more reliable way to get TN3270 to function
>on a Token Ring PC ? Telnet on same ?  NDIS maybe ? Would really appreciate
>any information on sites doing this type of connectivity. Money is a factor
>as wer'e a state funded institution.
 
We use IBMTOKEN and CUTCP quite a bit.  It works well except that it
seems to have some problems with our cisco routers that are also
bridging.  I think it is a cisco problem as it comes and goes with
different versions of cisco software!!  We don't want to bridge any
IP traffic, we have different subnets all round.
 
Feel free to contact me for more info,
---
  Brian Watson
  Programmer, Computing Centre
  University of Western Sydney, Macarthur
  Internet: b.watson@uws.edu.au
From: jcl@bdrc.bd.com (John C. Lusth)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: help with TRUMPET
Date: 13 Nov 92 16:20:07 GMT

There is some talk going around my organization of using VAX-NOTES
as a way to provide news services to our VAXEN, PCs, MACs, and SUNs(!).
Of course, we already have an NNTP server on one of our SUNS and
our other SUNS and MACs are NNTP clients. Now I thought that there
might be some software available for the PCs (the majority of
computers here) for setting them up as NNTP clients.  Scanning the
handy dandy SIMTEL archives, I found TRUMPET, a NNTP client news reader
for the PC, and a collection of packet drivers from Crynwr.  I downloaded
these files and tried them out. 

BTW, our PCs are networked together using Pathworks and DEPCA (?)
Ethernet cards.

The only way I could 'ping' our NNTP host was to be booted under Pathworks
and load this DEPCA driver from FTP Software.  Unfortunately, TRUMPET
would indicate that no packet driver was loaded.  Using the Crynwr
DEPCA driver would make TRUMPET happy but I could not ping our host
and thus TRUMPET stalled.

I'm at a loss with what to do next.

Would someone give my the basic steps on how to configure my PC to
run TRUMPET?  I do mean basic because a networking whiz I am not!
Remember, you will save many innocent people from VAX-NOTES!

Thanks muchly,

john

ps. I hope this is the correct group!
-- 
John C. Lusth, Becton Dickinson Research Center, RTP, NC, USA  jcl@bdrc.bd.com
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: ksh@powell.cs.jt.dk (Kurt Sejr Hansen)
Subject: Dlink adapter problem
Keywords: DE600
Hipath: powell!ksh
Organization: Jydsk TELEFON
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 13:27:09 GMT


	Hi there

	We are trying to use a D-link adapter with SUN's PC-NFS.
	It's ok if we are trying to connect (telnet) to a server
	on the local ethernet segment, but if we try to connect via
	router telnet hangs. "NET ROUTE" command i ok !.
	If we use other ethernet adapters (3com) routning i OK.

	Any suggestion ?


	Kurt Sejr Hansen
	Jydsk Telefon
	DK Denmark
	ksh@cs.jt.dk

--

   Kurt Sejr Hansen         ksh@cs.jt.dk
   Jydsk Telefon
   Sletvej 30 8310
From: cohen@lindsay.psychiatry.uiowa.edu
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: PCNFS and Trumpet (without shims!!)
Keywords: PCNFS, Trumpet
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:02:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Nov5.160226.6850
Organization: Psychiatric Imaging


 Is there any real plans to port Trumpet to PC-NFS 4.0a?  It would sure beat
any other alternative there is to newsreading/posting presently available
at this time.
thanks
From: nelson@crynwr.com (Russell Nelson)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Is this packet driver function really undocumented???
Date: 10 Nov 92 04:40:51 GMT
Organization: Crynwr Software

In article <GAH.92Nov9165633@HP370T.trc.mew.mei.co.jp> gah@trc.mew.mei.co.jp writes:

   Looking through the source code for PKTSEND in the latest Crynwyr 10.1
   release, I noticed the use of a function call with AH == 12, a variant of
   as_send_pkt() (AH == 11) which made use of structures called "IOCB's" (I/O
   Control Blocks).  This variant is not in the latest FTP 1.09 specification.
   Does anyone know where this function would be documented, and if there are
   any other functions programs use which are not documented in the FTP 1.09
   specification?

It is undocumented only in time.  The problem is that the
specification hasn't been published yet.  Those darned time machines
always introduce paragraphs, don't they?

Seriously.  The asynchronous send in 1.09 is (I have been told by
someone whose competence I trust) brain-dead.  It will be fixed by
1.10 whenever it's published.  It's already a year late (more or less).

-russ <nelson@crynwr.com> What canst *thou* say?
Crynwr Software           Crynwr Software sells packet driver support.
11 Grant St.              315-268-1925 Voice  |  LPF member - ask me about
Potsdam, NY 13676         315-268-9201 FAX    |  the harm software patents do.
From: trier@odin.ins.cwru.edu (Stephen C. Trier)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Re: Fragmented IP packets: any PD implementations?
Date: 8 Nov 1992 21:25:39 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: odin.ins.cwru.edu
Keywords: IP fragments TCP/IP

In article <1992Nov8.203621.6902@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> dpayne@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dirk Payne) writes:
>In order to be a "real" TCP/IP package (connected to the "real" world)
>fragments cannot be ejected out of hand.

In the real world, fragments are not terribly important.  TCP intentionally
avoids fragmenting data.  The only protocol I know of that intentionally
sends fragments is NFS, which is supported by none of the packages you named.

I am writing this using a PC/IP derivative that does not support fragments.
We have had 3000 users running it for two years, and in that time, I have
had only one complaint about a connection that failed because fragments were
being sent.

>Has anyone implemented IP fragment handling in any of the above mentioned
>products?

As far as I know, the only "free" TCP/IP package that supports fragment
reassembly is ka9q.  (It's not free to everyone -- check the docs for
details.)

Fragment reassembly is missing from DOS IPs for two reasons.  First, it
adds substantial complexity for little payoff, as exemplified by how well
these packages function without doing fragments.  Second, reassembly isn't
useful unless it can handle packets several times the MTU.  Memory is
tight on MS-DOS systems, so most TCP/IP implementations go to great lengths
to conserve RAM.  Reassembly requires being able to allocate relatively
large amounts of RAM, RAM that is wasted if no fragments arrive.

Someday, our PC/IP derivative may support reassembly.  I would expect that
it is on the wishlists of the other TCP/IP authors, too.  It's just not
easy to do, and it is hard to justify the time and memory for reassembly
when one can satisfy the vast majority of one's users without it.

-- 
Stephen Trier                                     
Network Services Engineering, IRIS/INS/Telecom    "Dessine-moi un mutton"
Case Western Reserve University                        - Le Prince
trier@ins.cwru.edu
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: naubertp@cognos.com (Patrick Naubert)
Subject: WINQVT and NDIS ?
Organization: Cognos Incorporated, Ottawa CANADA
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:01:39 GMT

I have two questions:

1- What's the latest version of QVTNET available for the public, and where
can I FTP it ?

2- Will it support NDIS packet driver ?

I have LanMan running and Beame & Whiteside, and I would like to add WINQVTnet
to the list....

Thanks for your time!
From: axa12@po.cwru.edu (Ashok Aiyar)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Re: POPmail under MS-DOS.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:50:15 GMT
Organization: CWRU School of Medicine
Distribution: comp
NNTP-Posting-Host: axa12-slip.dialin.cwru.edu
Keywords: popmail, pc-tcpip, msdos

In article <BxIrw4.1uz@portal.hq.videocart.com> 
	mandrews@portal.hq.videocart.com (Mike Andrews) writes:

>POPMail has been much improved by Phil "PiB" Burns at NorthWestern 
University.>It's now called NUPop and it's excellent! 

NuPOP and POPmail/PC are two independent programs -- I do not believe that 
one has evolved into the other -- although the acknowledgement screens would 
indicate that their was/is much co-operation in their development.

NuPOP does offer features not found in POPMail/PC such as Webster, 
but POPmail/PC also has features not found in NuPOP -- such as support for
a campus "whois" server running on any port.

One important feature that POPmail/PC supports is that you can configure the 
POP server port - important on a campus such as ours where a POP3 server is 
being run on TCP port 109 (instead of the usual 110).  I am not sure whether 
NuPOP supports allows for this flexibility.

Ashok
----------------------------------------------------------------------
                             Ashok Aiyar
                     Department of Biochemistry
                         CWRU Medical School
                          axa12@po.cwru.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: erick@demorgan.uwaterloo.ca (Erick Engelke)
Subject: Re: Available telnetD vendors
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:52:41 GMT

 br.pct@RLG.Stanford.EDU (Peter C Tam) writes:
>  I remenber seeing a reply to such question 
>  "List of Telnet Server under MSDOS preferrably multi-sessions"
>  a few weeks ago. I suddenly need such information myself.
>
>  I already know about WATTCP telnetD (GREAT), but it cannot do multi-
>  sessions.

The three I know of are:

   Beame&Whiteside BW-TCP 3.0, includes all their other utilities.
   For a few extra bucks they will include their excellent NFS.
   Contact sales@bws.com

   Supro Network Software Inc.'s TELNETD is called Everywhere Access, 
   it can work with most vendors TCPs or using just packet drivers.
   Contact info@snsi.com

   Essex includes a TELNETD with their TCP/2 product.  They don't have
   Email access last time I asked.

Erick
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Erick Engelke				 	            WATTCP Architect
erick@development.uwaterloo.ca     TCP/IP was easy but i still can't work VI
From: halgas@mvax.uakom.cs
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Connecting PCs to the backbone network
Date: 10 Nov 92 13:53:35 +0100
Distribution: world
Organization: Institute of automation and communication

Hello,

We would like to connect remote locations with PCs to our backbone network.
And so we are looking for PD TCP/IP software for DOS with these features:

1) dialup-IP over PPP or SLIP possibility

2) VT100 terminal emulation

3) mail delivery (SMTP or POP)


Until yet I have tried these packages:

KA9Q - has 1 and 3
       has not 2	

NCSA-PPP - has 1 and 2
           has not 3


I would be greatly appreciated to anyone who could suggest me if I can find
somewhere missing features to KA9Q or NCSA and where.
Or if you know about another software packages with all three features
mentioned above please write me.
Thanks.
	Peter.Halgas@uakom.cs

PS: Please write me directly to my mail address.



Xref: sparky comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc:6131 comp.protocols.nfs:2711
From: geoff@tyger.Eng.Sun.COM (Geoff Arnold @ Sun BOS - R.H. coast near the top)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc,comp.protocols.nfs
Subject: Re: PC-NFS 4.0 and IBM TCP/IP 1.2.1 for OS/2 problems
Keywords: PC-NFS
Date: 6 Nov 92 15:53:47 GMT
Organization: SunSelect
NNTP-Posting-Host: tyger.east.sun.com

Quoth chf@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (charles.h.foster) (in <1992Nov6.140330.29707@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>):
#
#I am trying to access an OS/2 2.0 NFS server (IBM TCP/IP 1.2.1 for OS/2)
#from a DOS 5.0 PC running Sun PC-NFS 4.0. I can mount drives from the
#OS/2 server, but when I do a dir I get names that look like...
#
#	WINWO~7A     <DIR>     04-14-92   9:06a
#
#when they should look like...
#
#	WINWORD  DSK <DIR>     04-14-92   2:06a 
#
#(notice the time stamp is wrong also)

Which suggests that OS/2 is not returning file times in UTC (GMT)
format.

#In fact the only file or directory that has a extenstion is a WINA20.386 
#but even it is displayed as WINA2~HA.386.

THe OS/@ NFS server is returning names with uppercase letters.
PC-NFS maps such names. This is the correct thing to do with a
Unix server (otherwise what would you do with three files
called "foo", "FOO" and "Foo"?), but loses for OS/2.

#You can cd to a directory if you know the name (not the dir displayed
#mangled version).


This is because the OS/2 NFS server silently converts all incoming names
into uppercase form.

#You cannot execute .exe files but you can type autoexec.bat, for example.
#You can copy files from DOS to NFS server, but you cannot copy from the
#NFS server to DOS (says file not found).
#
#Can anyone shed some light on this problem. When I called Sun, all I got
#was a "we didn't test with that software" answer.

We certainly didn't have that combination available when we tested
PC-NFS 4.0. I'll check on how things are looking for the next release.
There *IS* going to be a NET USE switch (though not a Windows option
:-( to allow you to turn off all name mapping on a drive (the server
had better be using uppercase 8.3 names, or all bets are off), but from
the behaviour that you describe there may be other incompatibilities.


--
Geoff Arnold, PC-NFS architect, Sun Select. (geoff.arnold@East.Sun.COM)
-----------
News software that enforces a four-line .signature limit is responsible for
the fact that these postings just go on and on and on and seem to end in mid-
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: bryan@sphinx.phys.Virginia.EDU (bryan wright)
Subject: Wattcp TELNETD with PC-NFS and PKTMUX
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:01:32 GMT

Hi Folks,
	Has anyone gotten Wattcp's TELNETD to work with PKTMUX while
PC-NFS is running?  TELNETD just hangs if I start it up while PC-NFS is 
running.  If I turn of PC-NFS, everything works fine.  I noticed that in
the TELNETD documentation, it says "You cannot run other tcp/ip programs
[with telnetd]".  Is there a way around this?

				Thanks in advance,
				Bryan
bryan@sphinx.phys.virginia.edu



Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: ssmith@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Stephen Smith)
Subject: Re: Fragmented IP packets: any PD implementations?
Keywords: IP fragments TCP/IP
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:51:52 GMT

erick@demorgan.uwaterloo.ca (Erick Engelke) writes:

>> dpayne@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dirk Payne) writes:
>>I have reviewed WATTCP, PCIP, and both CUTCP and NCSA's versions of telnet
>>but none of these implemetations handle IP fragments. In order to be a "real"
>>TCP/IP package (connected to the "real" world) fragments cannot be ejected
>>out of hand.

>The question I have is why you are needing frags.  There are only a 
>few situations which should generate fragments in a user's PC, large 
>UDP packets and incorrectly configured TCP systems. 
The "few situations" may be important to the user(s), despite what I
think. Nor is it fair to assume any system which generates them is 
"incorrectly configured" or uses large UDP packets (e.g., slip over a 
noisy line).

I don't think "needing frags" is the point, its a matter of
co-existence w/ systems with frags-- regardless of how they are
generated. 

[... dispell stuff deleted]

>I might be convinced to add frag support, but would appreciate 
>opinion if it is a good idea, in particular, which applications
>could use it.  NFS is not a great answer since it would be useful
How about ftp, nntp, smtp, telnet --- i.e. all the WKS. The apps will
follow once the foundation is built. Several of these exist in NOS.
>even with 1K packet sizes, the problem there is the lack of an
>implementation.  I know the Host Requirements RFC tells us what
>to do, but I would prefer to see an application which needs it.

From my end, the problem is various PC tcp/ip implementations that
don't supporting fragment reassembly trying to co-exist with systems
that do support reassembly. No one person has control over every
system, and tcp/ip is the primary protocol stack and pre-dates PC's
altogether. 

My only question are commercial apps and Phil Karn's NOS to be the only
answer?  Given the clammoring for SLIP, the answer is getting more
important every day.


-Steve
-- 
==================================================================
Stephen Smith                         MS 262-6
(415) 604-1381                        NASA Ames Research Center
ssmith@eos.arc.nasa.gov               Moffett Field, Ca. 94035
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: halgas@mvax.uakom.cs
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: Terminal emulation under KA9Q
Date: 10 Nov 92 13:26:57 +0100
Distribution: world
Organization: Institute of automation and communication

Hello,

I am looking for any terminal emulation program under KA9Q, at least
with vt100 emulation. I would greatly appreciate any suggestions.

	Peter.Halgas@uakom.cs


Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
From: Dean.Roth <Dean.Roth@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Subject: Re: SLIP Dialers
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:20:12 GMT

In <9211111630.AA00638@top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Art Krumsee <akrumsee@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> writes:

>I am looking for a simple SLIP dialer.  Preferably one that does not require 
>device drivers loaded in CONFIG.SYS.  Any suggestions?


One can create a dialer program with little effort using a 
software library like Greenleaf Comm Lib. I did it (for my
employer - it's not PD).
You load the SLIP driver, start the dialer, and away you go.


*HOWEVER*

There is one problem if your machine has a 16550 UART.

The SLIP packet drivers (ETHERSL and SLIP8250) enable
a 16550 UART's FIFO.  Most comm packages, like Greenleaf,
enable the FIFO when the com port is opened, and disable
the FIFO when the comm port is closed by the dialer program.
(This is not a critism of comm packages.)
If the SLIP driver is loaded before the dialer program is 
used, which is a desired procedure, the SLIP driver will now
be screwed up and will not work because the UART FIFO has 
been turned off.

Solutions:

1) Modify the SLIP driver code to not use the FIFO. This is a
   minor change to the assembler code.

2) Modify the comm software to not touch the FIFO.

3) Don't load the driver first, which was not an option for me.

4) ?

Dean
From: stu@Warren.MENTORG.COM (Stu Brown)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: PC-NFS: How can I keep it from mapping names?
Date: 12 Nov 1992 11:09:18 -0500
Organization: Mentor Graphics -- IC Group
NNTP-Posting-Host: stu.warren.mentorg.com

I have an DOS CD-ROM in my Sun CD-ROM drive and am using PC-NFS
to mount it on my PC. But PC-NFS insists on mapping the names,
even though they are legal DOS names. A name like "abc." comes
out "abc~~~~ua", for example.

Is there an undocumented option to pcnfs.sys to not map names at all,
or can I mount the CD-ROM so that the HSFS files don't get UNIX names
(e.g. - lower case)?

-- 
Stuart Brown
Mentor Graphics Corporation
I.C. Group, Warren NJ
stu@warren.mentorg.com or uunet!sdl!stu
From: nelson@crynwr.com (Russell Nelson)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc
Subject: MCA TCP/IP packet drivers
Date: 10 Nov 92 04:44:14 GMT
Organization: Crynwr Software

In article <Nov.9.16.57.19.1992.2788@pilot.njin.net> mtayler@pilot.njin.net writes:

   I am having a problem configuring my ethernet card on a PS/2 model 80
   I have an SMC 16 bit ethernet card.

The only problem is that the existing driver 1) doesn't recognize the
MCA ID as being a wd8003e-compatible adapter, and 2) even if it did
by, say, adding the board's MCA ID to the list of ID's at line 300 of
wd8003e.asm, it can't parse the POS registers.

-russ <nelson@crynwr.com> What canst *thou* say?
Crynwr Software           Crynwr Software sells packet driver support.
11 Grant St.              315-268-1925 Voice  |  LPF member - ask me about
Potsdam, NY 13676         315-268-9201 FAX    |  the harm software patents do.