From: lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard)
Subject: Re: Family Values
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 21:45:08 GMT

In article <1992Sep6.181209.12231@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> mycroft@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Charles Hannum) writes:
>
>In article <1992Sep1.221503.15330@Princeton.EDU>
>elliott@leda.princeton.edu (Frank W. Elliott) writes:
>>
>> What does the phrase "family values" mean? Literally, it has _no_
>> meaning; however, it serves as a signal that "It's US against THEM."
>> (In this respect it's much like Hitler's phrase "white culture".)
>
>Or like the "gay rights movement"'s term "straights".
>
>These analogies to the holocaust are dangerous.  With respect to the
>"gay community" (and I use the term loosely) in this country, there are
>no concentration camps; there are no death camps; 

The analogy is being made between the far right at this point and the
beginning of the nazi movement in Germany. Take a look at Oregon, teachers
may soon be forced to teach religious doctrine against homosexuality in
school. People opposing the OCA are recieving death threats, and having
there property vandalized, pro OCA groups even stole computer equipment
and files containing mailing lists. They then used those mailing lists to
threaten people contributing to the fight against the OCA.

>the leadership is
>*not* actively encouraging people to hunt down and abuse/kill
>homosexuals.  

When did the Nazi's reveal there true intentions? I'm not going to wait
until they are trying to hurd us onto trains to stand up and fight.

>There is simply no basis for comparison.  

Read about the rise of Nazism in Germany, then spend a few weeks fighting
the OCA in Oregon if you can come back and honestly say this then I'll take
your word for it.  

>The use of
>analogies such as the above is offensive, 

Why should I try not to offend the OCA? My very existance offends them..

>and only generates hatred; it
>does nothing to cure it.

If you know how we can cure the hatred of the OCA without commiting suicide
tell me.

>People have been killed in minor brawls and large wars over their
>beliefs for many thousands of years.  This is neither good nor unusual,
>and there is no reason to expect that it will stop, even (or perhaps
>especially) through legislation.

But ignoring it will not make it any better.

>Statistically, I don't see "gay bashing" as being any more common than
>the "fat" boy or the "ugly" girl getting beat up on the playground, or
>the "straight" guy getting beat up because he made a pass at someone's
>girlfriend.  While none of these is truly acceptable, the source of the
>problem has nothing to do with homosexuality; it has do to with low
>tolerance for someone else's views or lifestyle, or in the latter case,
>selfishness and (usually) insecurity.

This is true, thats why I usually refer to bigotry rather than homophobia,
bigotry has universily resisted every advance in civilization. At them
moment homosexuals are the main targets of bigots. When do you see preachers
condemning ugly children to hell? Only 20 years ago left handed children
where "treated" for there sinister defect and forced to become right handed.

>Any doctor can tell you that you cannot cure a disease by attacking the
>symptom(s); you must attack the disease itself.  In this case, morality
>itself is diseased.  How do you propose curing it?

But one should also treat the symptoms while looking for a cure. Fixing
society may take many lifetimes, in the meantime we must keep patching
it up.
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