From: dfo@tko.vtt.fi (Foxvog Douglas)
Subject: Re: Sergei Viznyuk & Language Requirement - A correction
Organization: VTT
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 07:53:56 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.175643.21505@physics.ucla.edu> viznyuk@physics.ucla.edu (Sergei Viznyuk) writes:
>In article <01GNYZ8AK3R690NHCZ@yvax.byu.edu> "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:
>>>> From: Lesli LaRocco <ROCCO@ALBNYVM1.BITNET>
>>>>
>>>> Why is the language requirement considered so onerous by those in on the
>>>> discussion? Isn't it reasonable to expect those who want to be citizens
>>>> to speak the language, at least to some degree (I assume they don't
>>>> expect fluency)?
>>>From: SERGEI VIZNYUK <VIZNYUK@MPS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>

>>>  When you are living in a democratic country, like e.g. US,
>>>nobody would deny you a citizenship just because you cannot
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>speak English. This is a first. The second thing is that
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>the so-called "language requirement" in "newly-democratic"
>>>Estonia was invented not because Estonians care about
>>>how to make Russian-speakers speak Estonian, but because
>>>Estonian nationalistic goverment wants to have

>>Hmmmm. It's time to review the requirements for naturalization into the US.

>  No need to post IMS regulations. I think that even you
>should know that in US (unlike such "democracies" as
>Estonia) nobody would deny you a citizenship JUST because
>you cannot speak English. That means (if you couldn't
>understand that yourself) that if you were born in US,
>you become US citizen DISREGARD whether you speak or
>don't speak English. The same is true about all real
>democracies, and apparently is not true for new-style
>"democracies" as that of Estonia.
>S.V.

It is true that the US has this law.  However it is uncommon.  Most
countries have the law that children of their citizens are citizens no
matter where they are born.  (The US also has such a law.)  As a result
most countries consider children born within their country citizens of
the same country that their parents are citizens of.  Only if one of
their parents is a citizen (sometimes restricted to the mother?) is that
child automatically a citizen of the country it is born in.  

I know that in Finland this is the case.  A Chinese friend had a child
born here who was stateless for a while as the Chinese government would
not grant citizenship as it was a second child (in violation of the
single child family rule), while the Finnish government would not grant
citizenship as both the child's parents were foreign citizens.  The
child received Finnish citizenship only through appeal.

I consider Finland as much of a "real democracy" as the US (although
neither fit the standard definition of the term -- lets not quibble over
such a definition).  I have not seen statistics as to which countries
have which rule, and i doubt that S.V. has either.  If someone could
post a list of what countries (or democracies) have a rule accepting all
kids born in the country as citizens, i would like to see it (as well as
a reference to the source).

Finland's law of naturalization requires 5 years of residence and
ability to speak Finnish (or Swedish?).  The US law of naturalization
requires 7 years of residence and the ability to speak English, as well
as understanding of the US Constitution (and maybe something else).
Both countries require knowledge of the local language before someone
can become a citizen.

>>Ole Christian
>>(Norwegian Citizen in the US) :-)
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Ole Christian Hellum                                   Hellum@YVAX.BYU.EDU
>>                                                  Brigham Young University
>>                                                               Provo, Utah
>>Administrator of PROGRESS@VM.BYU.EDU
>>The unofficial list of Norway's Libertarian Party


-- 
doug foxvog     
dfo@tko.vtt.fi