From: timk@world.std.com (Tim King)
Subject: Re: Faith in the Word
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 08:17:37 GMT

I can see there was some confusion and dismay from my last post;
therefore, I am posting a follow-up...


(1) I would like to reiterate that I am not trying to dispute the validity
or the importance of physical healings.  These are exemplified time
and time again through scripture.  I would be a fool to try to contradict
them.  I have seen them and heard of them, and to deny them would be
to deny that God takes an active part in the lives of men.

There is, however, a teaching of growing popularity (at least in my area),
which basically says that if I have enough "faith" I can make anything
happen that I want.  This teaching is based upon a non-biblical definition
of the word "faith" and is actually counter-productive to the christian
walk.  Some who take this teaching towards it's natural conclusion
have gone so far as to say that God made a mistake when He created man,
that through meditation and concentration we can cause events by speaking
them into occurance, and that Jesus Christ was tortured in hell and had
to be born again in order to ascend to heaven.  These teachings are
clearly non-biblical and eventually elevate man to a position equal with,
if not higher than, God.

Also, some followers of this movement have alledgedly denied themselves
and their loved-ones needed medical treatment, in "faith."  The logic
is that God is going to miraculously heal the ailment, which He often
does not.  Sometimes this practice results in death.  Kind of sounds
like the story of the man who drowned in a flood.

My previous post was made in the interest of defending the integrity of
the bible.  I was not, nor am I, attacking anybody on this list.  I merely
wish to clarify the intended meaning of scripture to the best of my
ability, which sometimes isn't very much.


(2) Isaiah 53:4-6 (NKJV)

       Surely He has borne our griefs [sicknesses]
       And carried our sorrows [pains]
       Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
       Smitten by God, and afflicted.
  <a>  But He was wounded for our transgressions,
  <b>  He was bruised for our iniquities;
  <c>  The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
  <d>  And by His stripes we are healed.
       All we like sheep have gone astray;
       We have turned, every one, to his own way;
       And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

Phrase <d> is the one that I said referred to spiritual healing.  By
spiritual healing I mean the healing of man's spirit from sin through
Christ's blood.  Isaiah 52:13-53:12 is a prophesy concerning Jesus,
as I'm sure we all agree.  It is clear that lines <a>, <b>, and <c>
are speaking of Christ's sacrifice for sin.  But line <d> refers
to physical healings?  Then Isaiah immediately switches gears again,
continuing to speak of our spiritual state, finishing the stanza with
"And the Lord has laid on Him the _ iniquity _ of us all."

The word "griefs" in verse 4 can be translated "sicknesses."  I'm not
sure of all my facts on this, so I'll do more research and get back to
ya'll.  However, Matthew 8:17 does indeed quote Isaiah 53:4 to apply
to physical ills.  I'll see if I can find the reason.

It may also be worthy to note that the Good News Bible translates
verse 4:  "But he endured the suffering that should've been ours, the
pain that we should've borne.  All the while we thought that his
suffering was punishment sent by God."


(3) Hebrews 11

I had made a statement to the effect of "I'm not sure, since I haven't
got my bible with me, but aren't there examples in Hebrews 11 of people
who suffered [in sickness] by faith?"  Well, there aren't, as was
already pointed out.

However, the example I gave of Job still equally applies.  Furthermore,
the principle concerning trials, which build character, can be applied
to naturally-occuring physical illnesses, especially when they last a
long period of time.  We would be extremely short-sighted to say that
it's easy to remain faithfully dedicated to God amidst long-term or
painful illness.


(4) I would further like to encourage all of those who do not find
relief from whatever sickness they may have.  God hasn't left you, and
He still *is* in control.  Nevertheless, in His perfect, complete
plan, He allows us to go through certain trials, either by fate or
by the hands of others.  Likewise, if God should deny you what you
ask, know that it is to your ultimate good.  If you want real-life
examples... ooh boy!  Have I got some stories for you!


Be encouraged,
-Tim
-- 
Tim King                  |-_      |
Dedham, MA                |  -|    |    Make mine music!
timk@world.std.com       <>   |   <>
(617) 890-2929 x137          <>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU