From: jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Larry Jewell)
Newsgroups: soc.veterans,alt.war.vietnam
Subject: 'NamVet Newsletter, Vol.4, no.12 (1/7)
Date: 4 Oct 92 16:56:08 GMT
Followup-To: soc.veterans
Organization: Purdue University


     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990

     .                                  __                           .
     .    -*-  N A M   V E T  -*-  ____/  \_                         .
     .                            (      *  \                        .
     .        Managing  Editor    \    Quangtri                      .
     .        ----------------     \_/\       \_ Hue                 .
     .         G. Joseph Peck          \_Ashau    Phu Bai            .
     .                                   \_*       \_                .
     .      Editorial Assistants           \      *  )               .
     .      --------------------          _/     Danang              .
     .          Pete Farias       \|/    (            \_*Chu Lai     .
     .         Sarge Hultgren    --*--    \_    ------- \__          .
     .                            /|\       \_  I Corps    \         .
     .      Distribution Manager              \ -------     !        .
     .          ------------                 /\_____        !        .
     .          Jerry Hindle                /       !        \       .
     .                                      !       !___      \      .
     .        Section Editors               !           \/\____!     .
     .        ---------------               !                 !      .
     .  AGENT ORANGE: Martin H. Kroll, Sr. /  Dak To          !      .
     .  IN-TOUCH: Ray "Frenchy" Moreau    /     *            /       .
     .  INCARCERATED VETS: Joyce Flory    !                  \_      .
     .  HOMELESSNESS:   Lefty Frizzell    !             Phu Cat\     .
     .  FEDERAL BENEFITS: Jim Hildwine     \    *            *  )    .
     .                                      \ Pleiku            )    .
     .   -**-  N A M    V E T   -**-         \                  \    .
     .                                       /                  /    .
     . "In the jungles of 'Nam, some of us  (       --------    !    .
     . were scared and wary, but we pulled  _\      II Corps    !    .
     . one another along and were able     /        --------     \   .
     . to depend on each other.  That has  \                      \  .
     . never changed.  Today, free of the   !                 *  /   .
     . criticisms and misunderstandings   _/           Nhatrang /    .
     . many veterans have endured,      _/                     /     .
     . NAM VET is a shining beacon,  __/                       !     .
     . a ray of hope, and a    _  __/  \                       !     .
     . reminder that the _____( )/      !               Camranh Bay  .
     . lessons learned  /               !__                    !     .
     . at such a high  /                   \                  /      .
     . price shall not \          Bien Hoa  \                /       .
     . be forgotten  -  !  Chu Chi       *   \            __/        .
     . nor the errors    \_   *   ---------   \       ___/           .
     . repeated!!!"  ____  \      III Corps    \    _/               .
     .       / \_____)   )_(_     ---------     !__/  Duplication in .
     .       !               (               ___/ any form permitted .
     .  _____!                \__      * ___/      for NONCOMMERCIAL .
     . !                          Saigon/            purposes ONLY!  .
     .  \___   --------           /  \/                              .
     .      \  IV Corps          /       For other use, contact:     .
     .       ) --------         /                                    .
     .      /                   !   G. Joseph Peck (413) 442-1660    .
     .     /               ____/           Managing Editor           .
     .    /         Mekong/                                          .
     .    !         Delta/  This newsletter is comprised of articles .
     .    !        ____/     and items from individuals and other    .
     .    !       /       sources.  We are not responsible for the   .
     .    !      /      content of this information nor are any of   .
     .    !   __/        NAM VETs contributors or Section Editors.   .
     .     \_/                                                   gjp .
     .                                                               .
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                      Page    i
     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990

     

     =================================================================

                     T A B L E   O F   C O N T E N T S

     
     1.  Editorials n' Things Worth Thinkin' About
          Talk about goin' into a tailspin!!! .....................  1
          Who's at the other end of the line? .....................  3
          It didn't seem like Christmas ...........................  4

     2.  Across the pond...
          '74 Report Says "POWs still in 'Nam!" ...................  5
          Where we should also look for our POWs ..................  7
          Interim Report on SEA POW/MIA Issue ..................... 11
          They haven't forgutten US!!! ............................ 20
          Washington sells out POWs - Explosive Senate Report! .... 21
          Legacy of a Covert War .................................. 24
          Incarcerated Vets remember MIA/POWs ..................... 29
          Christmas Tree Hijacked! ................................ 30

     3.  From Aztec Shore to Arctic Zone
          Part 1: USCG in SEA - The Vietnam Conflict  ............. 31

     4.  ATTACK on the U.S.S. Liberty!!!
          The Liberty - What does the government DO with the truth?  39
          "Truth" Held Hostage by Government Employment ........... 42

     5.  In-Touch
          In-Touch: What is it??? ................................. 45
          IN-TOUCH Registration/Request Form!!! ................... 48

     6.  The NamVet Chapel
          Chaplain Jim??? ......................................... 50
          The Electronic Chapel ................................... 52

     7.  Don't Abandon 'em
          Updating our Incarcerated Vets List ..................... 53
          Incarcerated Vets Care for Needy Outsider's ............. 55
          A visit or note once in awhile? ......................... 57
          Incarcerated NamVets: Treated equally? .................. 58
          VVA supports Incarcerated Vet Service ................... 65
          Operation Self-Help for Incarcerated Vets ............... 66
          "Caring" - from the inside out! ......................... 71

     8.  Hearts n' Minds
          NOT SOON TO FORGET ...................................... 73
          Lets NOT let history repeat itself! ..................... 74
          Is EVERYVET "not well"? ................................. 76
          EVERYVET's A-OK!!! ...................................... 77
          Statistics of Vietnam ................................... 84
          Here puppy, here puppy... ............................... 85

     9.  Ol' Glory n' Shiftin' Sands
          Viet Vets View Similar, BUT... .......................... 86
          No flags in the desert?  Gimme a break! ................. 87
          Thanksgiving Day Revisited .............................. 89
          Whaddya MEAN - NO FLAG!!! ............................... 90
          Top Ten in Saudi ........................................ 91

     10.  Uncle Sam wants YOU to know
          Disabled Vets - Last on the List? ....................... 92
          Break out the Clearasil <tm>! ........................... 93
          VA To Test Mobile Clinics ............................... 94
          VA Bills Insurance Companies ............................ 95

     11.  Concentrated IVVEC/NamVet Service
          The NamVet Service Desk ................................. 96
          Things get worse before... .............................. 98
          Congressman Says "We'll try THIS route..." .............. 100
          Start Early!!! .......................................... 101

     12.  Please keep this in mind
          FIREBASE FREEDOM "91" ................................... 102
          The Freedom Foundation .................................. 103
          Some Gave All... ........................................ 107











































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     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990



     =================================================================
     E d i t o r i a l s   n '   T h i n g s   W o r t h   T h i n k i n '   A b o u t
     =================================================================

                    Talk about goin' into a tailspin!!!
                             By G. Joseph Peck
                         NamVet's Managing Editor
                        VETLink #1 - Pittsfield, MA
                              (413) 443-6313
     
        Hiya NamVet brothers n' sisters!  FINALLY, after retrofitting 
     all of the other articles you'll be seeing in this month's issue, 
     I've got a chance to sit down and write something from ME to YOU.
     I don't know HOW I made it this month (we're only four days late 
     but, to me, that's like four decades late!).
     
        The past few months here have been difficult at best.  On the 
     verge of losing our house/home for over a year now, seems one 
     positive thing after another kept happening and happening - just 
     positive enough to keep us here, not positive enough to help us 
     make any progress, except in an area that is dear to MY heart: 
     veterans and veteran service.  
     
        The clock was strikin' the 23rd hour, 59th minute, 59th second 
     when a very dear friend said "No problem, Joe.  Ya need help?  How 
     much do ya need?"  I tol' him, he offered me work to pay it off - 
     and wrote out a check for the amount we needed to re-finance the 
     second mortgage.  NOW all we gotta work on is the FIRST mortgage 
     and the other bills...  
     
        And that was the BEGINNING of a warp-drive change to this 
     veterans self-image and self-esteem!  Seems that the very next 
     morning one of the temporary services I'm registered with called 
     with employment for me - in a legal firm helpin' with letter 
     writing and legal form preparation.  First day on the job I felt 
     like I'd been there a l-o-n-g time...  have some great "firing 
     line" experience doin' battle with federal and state 
     bureaucracies...   
        Where before I was comin' in to work in jeans and casual shirts 
     now it's State Capitol cammy-type: suit & tie <grin> ...  and it 
     DOES something to what I've been starting to believe about this 
     guy who'd applied for job-after-job only to discover the many 
     reasons others had for denying very-needed employment.  
        And now some "Are you interested in X position" letters are 
     beginnin' to come in from the Post Office... finally.
     
        With 'nuff persistence and determination, I suppose, a body CAN 
     find decent employment where s/he's got the SECURITY account paid 
     first.  
        
        But, with all the SECURITY "I've" known since my Army days, 
     I've learned that it isn't SECURITY that I really want - its 
     gettin' out here in the BBS world and blazin' new trails for 
     veterans who NEED service, veterans who NEED to find someone else 
     at the end of the line when the shadows are about beatin' 'em 
     down... showin' and sharin' the UNITY in our veteran commUNITY!
     
       Many of ya were here "way back when" Todd and I used to carry on 
     our conversations about "keep on keepin' on" and things WILL 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page  1
     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990

     happen.  Many of ya have talked with me VOICE and TRIED to tell me 
     that "Hey... ya gotta keep the wolf away from the door!"   I 
     remember too, the many who said "Joe, you're digging a grave for 
     yourself and your family!  Get out an' get a job, pick up aluminum 
     cans, do dishes... ANYTHING!"  
     
        "I'm not digging a grave - I'm building a solid foundation!  
     PLUS - I'm writing about what I'm doin' and sharin' it with my 
     brother n' sister veterans.  Somewhere, someplace, somehow - 
     somebody ELSE will see what I see in serving our veteran community 
     via computer; somebody ELSE will see the value in providing on-
     line veteran camaraderie, help and support to housebound and 
     homebound veterans - veterans who sometimes don't see beyond the 
     four walls of their rooms for days, weeks and months; somebody 
     ELSE will see, REALLY SEE, the help, the caring, the concern that 
     daily goes on throughout all of the US and the world through a 
     veteran-oriented BBS."
     
        "Digging a grave?  I don't think so.  We're gettin' the tee's 
     crossed, and the eye's dotted."
     
        Yeah... I can SEE the change in a self-image... WOW! Can I 
     really see it!  Amazin' what "having a job" does for ya!  It puts 
     a LOT of meaning behind:
     
                    HAVE A TERRIFIC HOLIDAY SEASON!!!!
     
                              Merry Christmas
     
                              Happy Hannukah
     
       and the best of all New Year's to each 'n every one of ya!!!
     
                            'til next month...
     
                       Show a brother/sister veteran 
     
                             That YOU care!!!
     
                              Ci'ao for Ni'ao
     
                                  - Joe -
     
















     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page  2
     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990

                    Who's at the other end of the line?
               Subject: American Association of Vietnam Vets
                         Date: 19 Nov 90  17:48:23
                            By: G. Joseph Peck
                      NamVet's Managing Editor East
                       VETLink #1 - Pittsfield, MA
                              (413) 443-6313
     
                                 ALERT!!!
     
     I received a telephone call this evening from a young lad named 
     Ralph Savage.  The telephone call began with all KINDS of 
     information about the plight of our brother n' sister 'Nam vets... 
     (ie "Did you know that over 35,000 have committed suicide <much 
     more than THAT, m' friend>?"  "Did you know that over 50 percent 
     of America's homeless are Vietnam Vets <Close - but no match, 
     Jack>"?)
     
     When I asked Ralph, "Are you Tax-Exempt" ... he said, "No, but 
     we've applied for it."  He then put down the phone, shuffled 
     through what sounded like a lot of papers, then came back on the 
     line to tell me that the American Association of Vietnam Vets has 
     a Board of Directors, etc. etc.
     
       "Where are you located?"
       "In Santa Rosa, CA"
     
       I then asked Ralph, "Are you a Vietnam vet?"  
       "Yes," he said.
       "When did you serve?"
       "Uh... Uh...   I didn't...    My father did..."
     
       I might have liked to hear the rest of his story and the rest of 
     his appeal and would have liked to have learned WHAT they're 
     tryin' to do for our brothers n' sisters, but, for ME...
       A story that STARTS "full of holes, inconsistences, and 
     untruths" smacks all the way of a bogus appeal for funds.
       If any of *-YOU-* hear from this organization, please try to 
     find out more about it for all of us in here.  
       Seems "MY" triggers go off too easily lately...   If this 
     organization IS valid, it deserves some help (and maybe someone 
     could tell 'em a little about 'having accurate facts at hand 
     BEFORE they go public')
     
     12/10/90 Update! --  Local VVA chapter informed me that people
     are calling them up and asking them if they have anything at all
     to do with the above.  (They do not.)  One lady was smart 'nuff
     to get an address from 'em:  which is NOT in California:
     
              American Association of Vietnam Veterans
                       P. O. Box 18207
                  Washington, D.C.  20036
     
     Can someone in or near them please check 'em out???
     




     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page  3
     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990

                       It didn't seem like Christmas
                            By Douglas A. Martz
                           Army Times - 12/17/90
                         Input by: G. Joseph Peck
                         NamVet's Managing Editor
                        VETLink #1 - Pittsfield, MA
                              (413) 443-6313
     
        It didn't seem like Christmas.  Christmas meant being home with 
     the  family  gathered around a blazing fire.   Here in  Bien  Hon, 
     north  of Saigon,  the sun was bright;  the heat was,  as  always, 
     oppressive; and sweat was a constant companion.  It didn't seem to 
     matter  that we were celebrating the birth of the Prince of Peace.  
     We were in a combat zone and doing the things it took just to stay 
     alive.
        I  wondered what my new daughter,  7 months old,  was like now.  
     Perhaps taking her first step, sleeping through the night, cutting 
     her  first  tooth,  smiling  at her mother -  and not  at  me.   I 
     wondered  if I would ever see her again.   In the nine days I  had 
     been with her before leaving the States, she had captured my soul.  
     There was a part of me missing,  and I would not be whole until we 
     were reunited.
        I was terribly lonely, and feeling right sorry for myself.  The 
     sun  was  shining all around,  but I could not keep  the  darkness 
     away.
        A  knock  at  the door.   Another soldier in the  same  hootch.  
     Another  soldier  with young children who will not remember  their 
     father if he fails to return.  But he's grinning.
        "Come  on over,"  he said,  "and share some cookies.   My  wife 
     wrote and said my daughter backed them.  She said she helped 'just 
     a little.'  Come on over and share them with me."
        I  went.   Everyone  was there -  all the guys who shared  this 
     building  every day,  guys recalled from the field to serve  here.  
     Someone had brought soda,  someone else cheese.   I retrieved some 
     pictures  and  food  packages  sent  from  home.   We  shared  our 
     "bounty," there together with the ache of separation.
        I  looked at the familiar faces of young-men-grown-old  sharing 
     their  food and themselves.   I knew I had misjudged.   It  seemed 
     just like Christmas.
     
                   ------------------------------------
     Army Lt. Col. Douglas A. Martz and his wife, Anne,  live in Elgin, 
     Ill., with their three children.  Amy Elizabeth, whom he missed at 
     Christmas, is now 20 and engaged.
     














     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page  4
     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990



     =================================================================
                    A c r o s s   t h e   p o n d . . .
     =================================================================

                  POWs STILL IN VIETNAM, '74 REPORT SAYS
                              By: Bill Gertz
                    The Washington Times 10/29/90 P. A7
                         Input by: Sarge Hultgren
                        NamVet Editorial Assistant
                      Freedom's Choice BBS - Lynn, MA
                              (617) 593-2605
     
     ^^ This File Is Reproduced "AS IS" from the ORIGINAL DOCUMENT ^^
     
       A  Senate report to be released today says the  U.S.  government
     reported  secretly in 1974 that "several hundred"  Americans still 
     were held captive from the Vietnam War in Southeast Asia.
       The  Senate report,  which revealed the conclusion of the still-
     secret  Defense Intelligence Agency report,  does not address  the 
     possibility that U.S. military personnel are still in captivity.
       The  last  known U.S.  prisoner of war held by the Viet Cong  in 
     Vietnam was released in April 1973.
       The  report  says  that despite "internal  policies  and  public 
     statements after April 1973, that "no evidence"  existed of living 
     POWs, the DIA authoritatively concluded as late as April 1974 that 
     several hundred POWs and MIAs were still held captive in Southeast 
     Asia.
       The  Washington  Times obtained a copy of the Interim Report  on 
     the  Southeast  Asian POW/MIA Issue,  produced by  the  Republican 
     staff  of  the  Senate  Foreign Relations Committee  and  set  for 
     release today.
       The  issue  highlights the possibility that a  conflict  against 
     Iraq  could  revive  the problem of recovering  POWs,  the  report 
     states.   Secretary  of  State James A.  Baker III also  has  said 
     recently  that  the  POW issue is the last remaining  obstacle  to 
     normalized relations with Vietnam.
       The  report  is  based on a yearlong investigation of  the  U.S. 
     government's handling of the POW-MIA issue and is continuing.
       It  concludes that the U.S.  government stance that there is  no 
     evidence of American POWs in the region "cannot be supported."
       The  Senate report supports charges by critics that the Pentagon 
     and  other  government  agencies with covered  up  or  discredited 
     reports  that  Americans were being held captive by the  communist 
     governments of Vietnam, Laos or Cambodia since the end of the war.
       "This  [DIA]  report undercuts 17 years of official denials that 
     POWs remained in captivity," said one committee investigator.
       Sen.  Jesse  Helms of North Carolina,  ranking Republican on the 
     Senate  Foreign Relations Committee,  said a large majority of the 
     American  public  believes  U.S.  prisoners  are  still  alive  in 
     Vietnam.
     
       "Clearly, the U.S. government no longer maintains credibility on 
     this issue," Mr. Helms said in an introduction to the report.
       In  a related development,  a Pentagon source said the  National 
     Reconnaissance  Office,  a  supersecret photographic  intelligence 
     agency,  obtained  photographs  of suspected American captives  in 
     Laos earlier this year.
       A  Pentagon spokeswomen declined to comment on the  report.  The 
     Pentagon  stated  in  July that "although thus far  we  have  been 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page  5
     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990

     unable  to  prove that Americans are still being detained  against 
     their  will,  the information available to us precludes ruling out 
     that possibility."
       According to a new book on the subject, "Kiss the Boys Goodbye," 
     the  administration  scrapped plans for two covert  operations  to 
     rescue  captive Americans in Southeast Asia in 1981 and 1983.   An 
     intelligence source said the CIA vetoed the operations because the 
     rescue would have publicized past covert activities.
       According  to  the Senate report,  the DIA concluded  "beyond  a 
     doubt  that  several  hundred  living American  POWs  remained  in 
     captivity  in Southeast Asia.   This was a full year after Defense 
     Department  spokesmen  were  saying  publicly  that  no  prisoners 
     remain."
       Congressional investigators for the first time were permitted to 
     examine about 400 of the approximately 1,400 secret DIA reports of 
     "live  sightings"  of  Americans in Southeast Asia since 591  POWs 
     were repatriated by the Vietnamese in 1973.
       At   that   time,   the  Pentagon   declared,   and   subsequent 
     administrations have repeated, that there are no living POWs left.  
     As  a result,  the Senate report states,  the emphasis has been to 
     recover the remains of those killed in action rather than seek out 
     living prisoners.
       A  total  of  2,103  cases of POWs or  MIAs  remain  unresolved, 
     according  to the report.   The report also states that the number 
     of  missing  Americans  could double if those captured  or  killed 
     during  covert  paramilitary operations between 1973 and 1975  are 
     factored in.
     































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page  6
     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990

      Seven New Areas That Were Classified In "Kiss The Boys Goodbye"
                           By: Michael Van Atta
                     P.O. Box 302, Chatham, N.J. 07928
                         Input by: Sarge Hultgren
                        NamVet Editorial Assistant
                      Freedom's Choice BBS - Lynn, MA
                              (617) 593-2605
     
     ^^ This File Is Reproduced "AS IS" from the ORIGINAL DOCUMENT ^^
     
                 [From: 11/1/90 Dear Insiders (ISSUE #21)]
     (This  information service,  provides Bush appointees with facts & 
     proof  that Vietnam and Laos still hold US prisoners in captivity, 
     alive in their prison systems, in 1990.)
     
     The  SOVIET  UNION  and  its involvement inside  of  Vietnam  with 
     captured U.S. POW's is a STATE SECRET, in the USA!
     
     At a SECRET debriefing facility in VINH,  North Vietnam,  captured 
     U.S.  prisoners,  who had special knowledge,  were interrogated by 
     Soviet and Chinese Advisors.  U.S. POW's with special knowledge in 
     the  areas of electronic countermeasures and military combat order 
     of battle knowledge, who were taken to the SECRET facility at VINH 
     would  never  return home according to  defectors,  ralliers,  and 
     workers  at  this  VINH facility who have been debriefed  by  U.S. 
     intelligence.   "All of the U.S.  POW's taken to this VINH complex 
     were  given three options-  transfer to the U.S.S.R.,  transfer to 
     China, or death." (see CIA report #CS-311/04439-71)
     
     The U.S. feared,  during the Vietnam War,  that the conflict would 
     escalate  into  a super power war,  pitting  U.S.  troops  against 
     Soviet  and Chinese troops,  in a direct combat  role.   Although, 
     this  fear was publicly expressed,  the exposure of the extent  to 
     which  Soviet and Chinese advisors were involved in a combat role, 
     was   thought  to  be  so,   politically  sensitive,    that   the 
     intelligence communities confirming acknowledgment,  was and still 
     is today, withheld as a STATE SECRET, in the USA.
     
     Although, the Vietnam War ended in 1975, it was not until May 1989 
     that  the Chinese government publicly admitted that its troops had 
     a  direct  combat  role.   "China  admitted  for  the  first  time 
     yesterday  it  sent more than 300,000 combat troops to Vietnam  to 
     fight against U.S. forces..."  Chinese officials said that,  "more 
     than  4,000  Chinese soldiers were killed during  the  war.   "The 
     United States claimed repeatedly during the Vietnam War that there 
     was evidence that Chinese forces were involved in the war.
     
     In  April  1989 the Soviet Union confirmed  politically,  for  the 
     first time, that they also had a direct combat role in the Vietnam 
     War, and had awarded medals to Soviet officers who,  "helped shoot 
     down  24 U.S.  bombers.  "But,  the U.S.  has remained silent,  in 
     exposing  the extent of its knowledge of the Soviet combat role in 
     Vietnam, because most of the U.S. intelligence on the Soviet role, 
     remains  highly  classified,  SECRET.   The  powers  to  be,  have 
     silenced  all  who talk about the Soviet combat role,  and  Soviet 
     control of U.S. POW's.
     
     In fact,  many at Defense Intelligence have made public statements 
     denying  any U.S.  knowledge of the Soviet combat role in  Vietnam 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page  7
     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990

     and denying that any captured U.S.  POW's were moved to the Soviet 
     Union.   In  December 1988,  the DIA Director,  Lt.  Gen.  Leonard 
     Perroots  wrote in the Armed Forces Journal,  "There is absolutely 
     nothing  to  suggest  that  any of our men were  ever  taken  from 
     Vietnam to the Soviet Union or any other Eastern-bloc nation."
     
     Stated  assurances by DIA directors,  denying that they have  seen 
     classified  information  to the contrary,  erode public  faith  in 
     government  officials.   General Perroots remarks are disputed  by 
     several  others.   In  May  1990 Col.  Schlatter told a  group  of 
     veterans  in  a meeting at the State Department that  Jon  Sweeney 
     (MIA  2/19/69-released  6/17/70)  "was taken from Vietnam  to  the 
     Soviet Union, and then to Stockholm where he was released."  Jerry 
     Mooney in March 1989 provided an affidavit,  stating that while he 
     was an employee of NSA he tracked, through enemy radio intercepts, 
     the capture of U.S.  POW's who were "Moscow Bound".  Larry Hagerty 
     in  April  1990,  with the Freedom Now TV Network,  taped  another 
     former  NSA  employee who stated that he  electronically  tracked, 
     captured U.S.  POW's where were taken to VINH,  North Vietnam (the 
     SECRET  Soviet debriefing site).   These American POW's were then, 
     taken  back  to Sam Neua,  Laos (the headquarters for  the  Pathet 
     Lao),  and  "flown  on  IL-14 Soviet type aircraft to  the  Soviet 
     Union."
     
     Although, the U.S. POW's who were released in 1973, were debriefed 
     about their contact with Soviet advisors, while prisoners,  all of 
     their   debriefings  are  still,   SECRET.    Only  by   reviewing 
     debriefings  of defectors and ralliers,  can one piece together  a 
     clearer picture of the Soviet combat role in Vietnam, a story that 
     is still, a SECRET.
     
     Clearly,  the  Soviets took an active role in planning operations, 
     but  did  they participate in combat?   Were the Soviets  directly 
     responsible  for  the death of U.S.  soldiers and did the  Soviets 
     suffer  casualties?   The  Soviets  helped  develop  sophisticated 
     propaganda  plans as captured propaganda material,  printed in the 
     Soviet  Union,  indicates.   U.S.  troops  fought  against  Soviet 
     supplied weapons, logistical support and manpower.  There are many 
     indications   that  Soviet  Advisors  worked  deep  inside   Laos, 
     Cambodia,  and South Vietnam,  in addition to their direct role at 
     Surface-to-Air, (SAM) missile sites in North Vietnam.
     
     ^^  In  1970  Bui Con Tuong,  defected and told that  in  1967  he 
     escorted  a Soviet delegation to Kien Hoa,  South Vietnam to see a 
     "liberated"  hamlet  in the Mekong Delta.   He escorted  5-Russian 
     officers  including a Soviet 1-star general and a captain,  with a 
     heavy  security element that crossed over from  Cambodia.   During 
     the trip, they came under fire briefly by U.S. and ARVN troops.
     
     ^^  In  May  1965  Nguyen Van Ton defected  and  stated  that  he, 
     "escorted Russians on military operations in War Zone C."
     
     ^^  In 1967 a Navy SEAL Team killed a Soviet Advisor in combat  in 
     Kien  Gia Province and a U.S.  Intelligence Officer confirmed that 
     the Team had killed a Russian Advisor.
     
     ^^ In September 1969 Dr.  Dang Tan defected in Pleiku Province and 
     stated  he  saw  Soviet Advisors in South Vietnam  and  Laos,  who 
     carried  arms.   He  was in contact with 4 or 5 groups of  foreign 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page  8
     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990

     military advisors including Cubans,  Chinese,  North Koreans,  and 
     Soviets who came to study the battlefield in South Vietnam.
     
     ^^  On October 29,  1967 Thomas Roubideaux on a L.R.R.P.  ambushed 
     and  killed  a Soviet fire team,  including a Soviet  Advisor  and 
     captured  a secret Soviet "Dragunov'  (SVD)  sniper rifle that was 
     used against U.S. troops.
     
     ^^  Many  intelligence reports show that NSA intercepted a lot  of 
     Russian  voice transmissions from Takeo Province,  Cambodia  using 
     code words to direct secret missions.
     
     ^^ In late 1967 Truong Nhu Trang, a NLF rallier,  said he was with 
     Soviet  visitors  inside of South Vietnam when they were hit by  a 
     B-52 strike.
     
     ^^  In 1971 GRU operatives,  acting as elite Soviet Spetsnaz Units 
     operated, in South Vietnam.  Russians disguised as Americans, were 
     targeting  U.S.  SOG teams effectiveness.   SOG teams who detected 
     the  Soviets,  claim that some of the Soviets were killed and some 
     Soviets were captured.
     
     ^^  In  1969  a  Soviet Mi-6 Helicopter  was  ambushed  in  Darlac 
     Province, killing 7-Soviet crewman.   Intelligence sources confirm 
     that  Soviets piloted choppers delivering troops and supplies into 
     Laos, Cambodia, and South Vietnam.
     
     ^^  A Viet Cong defector (identity withheld)  claimed that  Soviet 
     submarines   unloaded   people  and  munitions  along  the   South 
     Vietnamese coast.
     
     ^^  In 1971 U.S.  Intelligence reported that about a dozen Soviets 
     were attached to the VC 3001st. battalion in An Xuyen Province.
     
     ^^  In  July  1966 Soviets piloted a MIG jet that  downed  a  U.S. 
     C-47D, an airborne Command and Control aircraft.
     
     ^^ In June 1968 north of the Ben Hai River, near the DMZ,  between 
     9  and  12  Soviet built and piloted  Mi-4  helicopters,  carrying 
     Soviet  STYX  missiles were tracked  on  U.S.  radar.   U.S.  Navy 
     Phantom  jets shot down all of the helicopters.   General Cao  Van 
     Vien's staff said, "There were Russians aboard these Helicopters."
     
     ^^  A  Pathet  Lao defector (identity  withheld)  told  of  Soviet 
     officers at Pathet Lao headquarters complex at Ban Na Kay Neua. He 
     confirmed  that  Soviet manned helicopters flew between Hanoi  and 
     Sam Neua.
     
     ^^ There are several 100 intelligence reports that are eye witness 
     sightings  of  Soviets,  in  the field  of  battle,  inside  South 
     Vietnam.   Soviets  operating  with enemy units were sighted  near 
     Camau in February 1973, at An Loc in November 1973, and outside of 
     Danang in February 1974.
     
     Clearly,  Soviet Advisors in Vietnam took on an active combat role 
     in  fightings  against Americans and put their hands  on  captured 
     U.S. POW's.
     
     Sincerely,                    Telephone (201) 701-0238
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page  9
     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990

     Michael Van Atta, P.O. Box 302, Chatham, N.J. 07928
     
                   Prisoners of War & Missing In Action
     
     What  happened  to  the Americans who were captured alive  in  the 
     Vietnam  war who were not released?   Find out in a new book "Kiss 
     the  Boys Goodbye"  by Monika &  Bill Stevenson.   To order,  send 
     $20.00 to Mike Vanatta, P.O. Box 302, Chatham, N.J. 07928
     


















































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 10
     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990

                    Interim Report on SEA POW/MIA Issue
                         Input by: Sarge Hultgren
                        NamVet Editorial Assistant
                      Freedom's Choice BBS - Lynn, MA
                              (617) 593-2605
     
     ^^ This File Is Reproduced "AS IS" from the ORIGINAL DOCUMENT ^^
     
     UNITED   Interim Report on the
     STATES   Southeast Asian
     SENATE   POW/MIA Issue
     (Seal)
                  By the U.S. Senate Committee On Foreign
                        Relations Republican Staff
     
     Release Date: Monday, October 20, 1990
     
                           United States Senate
                      Committee On Foreign Relations
                         Washington, DC 20510-6225
     
                             October 26, 1990
     
     Dear Republican Colleague:
     
        Enclosed is an Interim Report prepared by the Minority Staff of 
     the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations on the U.S. Government's 
     handling of the POW/MIA matter.   This summary document represents 
     a  year  of  intensive  investigation,   culminating  in  a  major 
     breakthrough  in  the  careful examination  of  DIA  live-sighting 
     reports  on  POW/MIAs  --  the  first time in  17  years  that  an 
     independent  branch  of the government has had an  opportunity  to 
     make an objective evaluation of the methods used in accounting for
     those categorized as POW/MIAs in Southeast Asia.
     
        On October 17,  1990,  the Foreign Minister of Vietnam,  Nguyen 
     Cao Thac addressed a coffee at the Foreign Relations Committee and 
     attended  by Senators of the Committee as well as invited  guests.  
     In  my  opinion,  the department of State's invitation to Thac  to 
     visit  the  United  States was inappropriate at a  time  when  the 
     Executive  Branch is still unwilling to address the hard issue  of 
     living American POWs still being held captive in Southeast Asia.
     
        The  thrust of Thac's address was to call for the  acceleration 
     of the time table for renewal of relations between the governments 
     of  Vietnam  and  the  United States.   Thac  indicated  that  the 
     resolution  of  the  POW/MIA issue is one of two  major  areas  of 
     contention.   Furthermore,  Thac  stated that he had agreed to all 
     terms  levied by the President through his special envoy,  General 
     John  Vessey USA (Ret.).   But in re-stating the terms to which he 
     had  agreed,  Thac  never once mentioned that the issue of  living 
     American POWs in Vietnam had been addressed.
     
        The  position  of  the Executive Branch is that  there  is  "no 
     evidence"   that  living Americans existing SE Asia,  nor were any 
     left after American prisoners were returned in 1973.
     
        Nevertheless, public opinion polls continue to suggest that 62% 
     of  the  American people believe that U.S.  POW/MIAs are still  in 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 11
     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990

     Vietnam, and 84% of Vietnam veterans believe so.  Clearly the U.S. 
     Government no longer maintains credibility on this issue.
     
        For  this reason,  a year ago,  I assigned investigators on the 
     Minority  Staff  of  the  Senate Foreign  Relations  Committee  to 
     conduct a staff investigation of the handling of the POW/MIA issue 
     by  the U.S.  Government.   These investigators are highly trained 
     professionals, with a total of more than 68 years of investigative 
     experience   in   the   Executive   Branch,   including   criminal 
     investigation  experience,  as  well  as  more than  17  years  of 
     experience  in intelligence analysis.   All served in Vietnam  and 
     are knowledgeable about history,  geography,  and language of that 
     unfortunate country.
     
        The  investigation  has proceeded quietly,  and without  public 
     fanfare.   But much remains to be done.   Information developed in 
     the course of the inquiry was the result of the following methods: 
     1)  face to face and telephonic interviews;  2)  review of various 
     classified and unclassified official documents;  3)  corroborative 
     information from government and private sources; and 4) historical 
     research.  This report is in all respects an interim report: It is 
     incomplete and it is a summary report of conclusions which must be 
     further tested.
     
        The  Committee on Foreign Relations has authority to engage  in 
     oversight of POW/MIA issues implicit in its broad mandate to study 
     and review foreign policy.   Senate Rule 25.lj specifically refers 
     to the Committee on Foreign Relations matters dealing with: "[11.] 
     Intervention   abroad  and  declarations  of  war,"   and   "[15.] 
     Protection of United States citizens abroad and expatriation."
     
     The focus of the inquiry has centered on the following questions:
        1.   Does  the   U.S.   Government  possess  valid  information 
     concerning living POWs in Southeast Asia?
        2.   Has  the  U.S.  Government  failed to act  on  information 
     concerning living POWs in Southeast Asia?
        3.   Has  the U.S.  Government acted improperly to  intimidate, 
     coerce,   or   discredit  sources  which  have  valid  information 
     concerning living POWs in Southeast Asia?
     
        I   believe   that  the  investigators  have  come   to   valid 
     conclusions, although of course much of the material they reviewed 
     remains classified.  Moreover,  I believe that the American people 
     have  the  right to see that this inquiry is pursued to  a  proper 
     conclusion.
     
        I  am deeply grateful for the enormous contribution of  Senator 
     Chuck  Grassley who,  out of his deep concern for American service 
     personnel,  joined  me  at  the very beginning and  supported  and 
     encouraged it at every step.
     
                                        Sincerely,
                                           /s/
                                        Jesse Helms
     
     JESSE HELMS:lb
     
        "Accountability  lies in oversight by Congress or in  criticism 
     from the electorate, but not in the judgement of the courts."
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 12
     Volume  4, Number 12                           December 14, 1990

     
     -- From Smith vs. Regan,  United States Court of Appeals,  for the 
     Fourth Circuit, No. 87-1661, April 20, 1988, regarding the POW/MIA 
     issue.
     
     INTRODUCTION
        One  year  ago,  the  Ranking  Minority Member  of  the  Senate 
     Committee  on  Foreign Relations assigned members of the  Minority 
     Staff to investigate the following questions:
        1)  Whether the United States Government has received and still 
     possesses valid information concerning living prisoners of 
     war/missing in action -- POW/MIAs -- in Southeast Asia;
        2)  Whether the U.S. Government has failed to act on such 
     information; and
        3)  Whether the U.S. Government has acted improperly to 
     intimidate and discredit sources of such information.
     
        The  primary purpose of this investigation has been,  and  will 
     continue  to  be,  to determine whether the  U.S.  government  has 
     handled  the question in a truthful and effective manner.   But if 
     it  results  in  a determination that even one POW  may  still  be 
     alive, it will result in a dividend of blessings.
        The  inquiry  remains on-going.   It is based not only  on  the 
     review  of  thousands of classified and non-classified  documents, 
     but  also upon hundreds of telephonic and face-to-face  interviews 
     with  government  officials and those affected by their  decisions 
     with  regard  to  POW/MIAs.   A  full  report  will  require  much 
     additional  investigation and analysis.   The following,  however, 
     represents an interim report at the conclusion of one year's work.  
     It allows the presentation of some preliminary conclusions.
     
     PRELIMINARY CONCLUSIONS
        The  U.S.  Government states it has no evidence that POWs  were 
     left  behind in Southeast Asia.   The official policy asserts that 
     it  is  open to investigation of all reports.   For  example,  the 
     official  Department of Defense (DOD)  POW-MIA Fact  Book,  issued 
     July, 1990, states:
     
             Although  we have thus far been unable to prove  that 
          Americans  are  still detained against their  will,  the 
          information  available  to us precludes ruling out  that 
          possibility.    Actions  to  investigate  live  sighting 
          reports  receive and will continue to receive  necessary 
          priority  and resources based on the assumption that  at 
          least some Americans are still held captive.  Should any 
          report  prove true,  we will take appropriate action  to 
          ensure the return of those involved.
     
        Notwithstanding  this professed openness to new  evidence,  the 
     U.S. Government has insisted since April 12, 1973,  that it has no 
     evidence  of  living  POWs.   In  fact,  on that  date  -  at  the 
     conclusion of OPERATION HOMECOMING,  which brought home 591 POWs - 
     Dr.  Roger  Shields,  then Assistant Secretary of Defense,  stated 
     that  the DOD had "no evidence that there were any more POWs still 
     alive in all of Indochina."
        The  assertion has been consistent.   For example,  last  July, 
     Col. Joseph A.  Schlatter,  then chief of the Defense Intelligence 
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