HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ConnorsPA@mailbox.bison.mb.ca (ConnorsPA)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: SHOGI-L mailing list, and list of books about Shogi. (was: Info abo
Date: 24 Sep 92 23:42:13 GMT

Organization: AT&T, Denver, CO

In article <1992Sep22.201626.15009@mits.mdata.fi>, karttu@mits.mdata.fi (Antti Karttunen) writes:
> In article <20591@drutx.ATT.COM> connors@drutx.ATT.COM (ConnorsPA) writes:
> >Does anyone know:
> >	(1) where I can get a shogi-playing program for an IBM PC?
> 
> I don't know and I fear there's none.

I have found an IBM-PC-compatible shogi-playing program.
It is called "Shogi Master", and claims a rating of 2-kyu.
(As measured on what class of PC, I don't know.)

It is available from Ishi Press for US $49.95

    * Ishi Press International, 76 Bonaventura Drive, San Jose, CA 95134,
      USA. Tel. +1-408-944-9900, Fax +1-408-944-9110 (August 1991).
    * The Ishi Press, Inc., CPO Box 2126, Tokyo, Japan.
    * Ishi Press, 20 Bruges Place, Baynes Street, London NW1 0TE, England.
      Tel. +44-71-284 4898, Fax +44-71-284 4899 (August 1991).

I have ordered a copy, and will post a review
when I have had a chance to evaluate it.

Paul Connors
------------

 * Origin: The Electronic Mailbox (1:348/7.0)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess,rec.games.go
From: cbrooks@pdx234.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Clark Brooks)
Subject: Re: mirror, mirror on the board...
Reply-To: $USER@ichips.intel.com
Organization: Microprocessor Division 6, PDX, Intel
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 22:26:22 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.133831.1@fnalo.fnal.gov>, jpxu1@fnalo.fnal.gov writes:
|> You are wrong nate.  There is no way to stop it. That's what the komi for.
|> And if you watched the very old chinese games, there were 4 stones before
|> the game starts.   That actually is  another way to break the symestry.
--------------------------
Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose....
-------------------------

Just the other day, (must have been around 1987) I posted a rebuttal to 
this naive "idea". You should really read a little of a group before
mis-answering an FAQ....

...........
...........             lower-case characters for black,
....sqo....         
....HFDm...             upper-case letters for white.
...JcaBk...
...LegiT...             victory for white after this mirror opening
....NPR....             is left as an exercise for the reader.
...........
...........             beware the frumious dango!


		-- Clark ick-kyu
From: doli@troi.cc.rochester.edu (David Oliver)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Playing some games
Date: 1 Oct 92 01:54:51 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

'm new to this group and I have just one question: What's the best way to find people to play games at my level? Should people just contact me individually, or should I join a ladder or what? Any suggestions...? 

David Oliver
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Where is a chess Conference???
From: nason@pa881a.inland.com
Date: 29 Sep 92 09:49:16 CDT
Organization: Inland Steel Company, East Chicago, IN
Nntp-Posting-User: nason

Does anyone know where there would be a conference on playing chess, for people
interested in the game of chess?  I thought this conference was about that but
I was wrong.  This is a conference on some computer science topic on
solvability, or chess variants.  

How many times can you say:

"White wins, black wins, or it is a draw"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How do you play the game backwards with twenty queens and a dozen kings.  

If I seek the answer to these and other earth moving topics, I'll know where to
look.  

In the mean time, if anyone knows where the chess conference went, please let
me know.  

Thanks

-- 
My opinions are my own and not those of my company.  
Free advice is worth its cost.  
--- John M. Nason - NA9U ---|--------------------------------------------|
Inland Steel Company        |  -- nason@pa881a.inland.com                |
Process Automation MS 2-464 |  -- Fax:   219-399-7856                    |
3210 Watling Street         |  -- Voice: 219-399-2450                    |
East Chicago IN 46312       |"Ya can't shoot em till they stop sparklin" |
----------------------------|--------------------------------------------|
From: mkukkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Mika Kukkonen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Budapest gambit
Date: 5 Oct 92 06:01:09 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In <1992Oct4.213405.19184@math.utexas.edu> epstein@rene.ma.utexas.edu (Paul Epstein) writes:

>Is anybody willing to give any opinions on this rarer version of the
>Budapest Gambit 1 d4 Nf6 2. c4 e5 3. de Ne4?  Otto Borik recently wrote
>a book on the Budapest claiming that this opening is o.k.  
>I'd be interested to hear what people think of it.

From my experience (and few games I have seen) 4.a3! refutes whole line.
I can dig up few games with this line, if you are interested.

Mika
-- 
Mika Kukkonen = Mika.Kukkonen@Helsinki.FI
Trying to learn to live in Helsinki University of Computer Science.
"I am studying, so I am, or am I (studying)?"
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: engp2063@nusunix1.nus.sg (NG CHEE MUN SIDNEY)
Subject: Re: Standardized Notations for Xiangqi
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 06:00:21 GMT

William Chang at Cold Spring Harbor Lab (wchang@phage.cshl.org) wrote:
: [Suggestion: RACER instead of rook]

Yes, I think that's a good suggestion but Chariot seems to be closer to
Ju than RACER. Unfortunately, Chariot cannot be included as it clashes
with Cannon.
 
 
: Please give some more detail, since CHARGES +-= can't describe some moves
: unambiguously.  

I don't know what is the unambiguity you are referring to. Please read
Response 3 by Andy Lipscomb. He gave a very comprehensive account of how
my notations are used.

 
: There's a very nice book, Chinese Chess by H.T. Lau, that uses 
: 
:   P P P P P
:    C     C
: 
:   RNMSKSMNR     [I prefer RNBAKABNR]
  
That's the different notations I have been referring to. But I believe
that Xiangqi should have a distinct identity of its own and should not
be 'younger brother' of International Chess all the time. Of course, the
initial adjustments would be painful....but isn't this what we have to
go through when we first learn something new?

: and f (forward) b (backward) h (horizontally) [I prefer s for sideways]
: Also if two pieces of the same type are on the same file, they are
: denoted f (forward) and r (rear), as in fRf2.  
 
Yes, so for front Rook I would write: fR2+5 (move 5 point forward)
For back Rook, I would write: bR2+1 (move 1 point forward)
But I dont think there's a need for horizontal movement.
From: fry@tara.harvard.edu (David Fry)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: F-S II gossip from Kasparov
Date: 30 Sep 92 06:46:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Sep30.024603.15960
Distribution: world
Organization: Harvard Math Department


Reuters reported that Kasparov again expressed his low opinion of the
Fischer-Spassky rematch.  "There are at least 50 grandmasters today
who can beat Bobby Fischer," he said.  "What does Fischer's 5-2 lead
mean? Nothing except that he is better than Spassky who has also not
played seriously for 10 years."

The next game is to be played, today, Wednesday.  Now that school has
started here, I'll be delayed posting the moves.  Sorry, but you're no
more upset about it than I am.

David Fry                                  fry@math.harvard.edu
Division of Applied Sciences               fry@huma1.bitnet
Harvard University                      ...!harvard!huma1!fry
Cambridge, MA  02138
From: fry@tara.harvard.edu (David Fry)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: F-S II game 15 CORRECTION and comments
Date: 5 Oct 92 06:58:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Oct5.025816.16081
Distribution: world
Organization: Harvard Math Department


As some people have deduced, the last three moves of game 15 should
have been:
   31. Qd5 Rxb2
   32. Qd8+ Kg7
   33. Nf5+ gxf5

So Black's Rxb2 was what was missing, followed by White's queen check.
Sorry for the confusion (and I was certainly surprised, too, but I
decided Qxf5 brought a perpetual), but I'm just copying the moves from
the news wires, and that's what the first release from AP said. I
generally don't even play out the moves before posting them, so the
answer is "No" to the person who wanted a diagram at the end of each
posting (unless someone has a C program to produce such a diagram from 
algebraic moves piped in).

After the game, Fischer said, "I think I had a positionally won game,
but Boris found a way to mix it up. I had a very, very good opening,
but Boris found a fantastic way to keep some counterplay, some
counterchances."

Bora Ivkov, on the scene, said that Spassky's 23...Bxf3 was "fishing in
murky waters indeed."  Others in Belgrade said Fischer should have played
30.Qb5 instead of 30.g4

David Fry                                  fry@math.harvard.edu
Division of Applied Sciences               fry@huma1.bitnet
Harvard University                      ...!harvard!huma1!fry
Cambridge, MA  02138
From: ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Is Chess Solvable?
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 14:41:42 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

> >To make this more concrete, consider the variant of chess where the first
> >person to deliver check wins.  This is easily shown to be a win for White,
> >even though the same branching-factor calculations apply to this variant.
> 
> Can someone explain why?  I can imagine that some symmetry arg. might
> show that the above variant of chess is not a win for Black (though I
> don't even see that offhand), but what precludes the possibility that
> Black can force a draw with no check ever occurring?

White checks with the Knight.  White can do this by move 3 or so.  Once
you realize this, you can examine all Black defensive tries and quickly
see that the Knight can't be stopped.  No fancy arguments are required.

--Tim Smith
Xref: sparky rec.games.chess:8169 sci.math:12300
From: karl@ima.isc.com (Karl Heuer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess,sci.math
Subject: Re: A different variant of chess
Keywords: Chess,sphere,connected surface
Date: 28 Sep 92 00:45:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: ima.1992Sep28.004544.24166
Organization: Formerly of Interactive Systems, Cambridge, MA

In <1992Sep27.132148.28682@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>Alternatively, one could play the game I often use for some computational
>problems in hydrodynamics -- use a circular boundary condition at the
>sides....  There are some interesting changes to checking, castling and
>taking pawns en passant.

But...  Oh, I guess you mean that the board is a cylinder.  At first I
assumed you meant *all* edges wrap (a torus board), which has the nasty
problem that both sides are in triple-check from the initial position.

In article <1992Sep27.184516.24103@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> mrw9e@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Michael Robert Williams) writes:
>Try this: map the regular chess board onto the surface of a sphere in a sort
>of inverse Mercator projection, so that the back lines would form a ring
>about each 'pole', and the pawns would form a ring around the back 'line'.
>You could probably play this version on a regulation board by allowing
>pieces to exit from one side of the board and enter on the opposite.

Spherical chess is described in Dickens' _A Guide To Fairy Chess_.  The
behavior at the left and right edges is the same as for a cylinder, of
course; behavior near the poles is less obvious.  A rook moves from a2 to
a1 to e1 to e2 (the only surprise being the two adjacent squares of the
same color).

A bishop follows a loxodrome.  The description in Dickens says that the
path is from d3 to c2 to b1 to d1 to c2 to b3 (making a complete cycle only
after passing through every white square *twice*), but mathematically this
is incorrect; it should be d3-c2-b1-e1-d2-c3, with a change of polarity at
the pole.

Karl Heuer   karl@ima.isc.com   uunet!ima!karl
From: pope@gold.kpc.com (John Pope)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: EG study (SOLUTION)
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:57:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: gold.POPE.92Oct6095713
Organization: /nfs/gold/u/home/pope/.organization


	White to play and draw

         8 - - - - - - - -
         7 - - - - - - - -
         6 - - p - - - - -
         5 p k p - - - R -
         4 - - - - - - - B
         3 P - - - - - - -
         2 - - p - - - K -
         1 - - - - - - - -
           a b c d e f g h

	(H. Mattison, 1913)

Solution:

1.a4 

	On 1.Bf2? c1(Q) 2.Rc5 Qc5 3.Bc5 Kc5 wins, and
	if 1.Rc5 Kc5 2.Bg5 Kc4 3.Kf3 Kb3 4.Bc1 Ka2 wins.

1...Kb6

	Clearly not 1...Ka4/b4? because of 2.Rg4 and 3.Bg5

2.Bf2

	If 2.Rc5, Kc5 3.Bg5 Kb4 4.Kf3 Ka4 5.Bc1 Kb3 6.Ke2 a4
	7.Kd3 a3 8.Ba3 Ka3 9.Kc2 Kb4 wins.

2...c1(Q) 3.Rc5 Qc5 4.Kh1!

	Zugzwang.

4...Qf2 stalemate!



--
John Pope
pope@kpc.com
Kubota Pacific Computers, Inc.
(408) 987-3362
From: dubach1@husc10.harvard.edu (joev dubach)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Damping the Damiano [Re: mirror, mirror...]
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:27:23 GMT
 <1992Sep28.112225.4887@athena.mit.edu><DUBACH1.92Sep28123155@husc10.harvard.edu><1992Sep28.222237.15926@husc3.harvard.edu>
Organization: Harvard Arts and Sciences Computer Services, Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu's message of 28 Sep 92 22:22:36 EDT

In article <1992Sep28.222237.15926@husc3.harvard.edu> elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies) writes:

   In article <DUBACH1.92Sep28123155@husc10.harvard.edu>
   dubach1@husc10.harvard.edu (joev dubach) writes:
   >Now, that isn't very nice.  The Daring Damiano is a perfectly valid,
   >dicey opening.  What's your line for 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 Nxe4
   >4. Qe2 Qe7 5. Qxe4 d6? (? refers to the sentence, not the move :) )

   As I recall, it ended with the conclusion that, although you have
   surprisingly good chances against an opponent convinced that you've
   merely fallen into an ancient opening trap, White can remain up a
   pawn for no or negative compensation with good play.  Or have new
   resources for Black been found?

Nope, that's pretty much the gist of it.  Still fun, esp. to play against
people who haven't seen it, but do have an extreme gut reaction
against Nxe4.  The fact that black can even come close to holding the
position makes them nervous.  Also, theory hasn't made it to the
coffeehouses; many people just accept that I know what I'm doing, and
try to play 'around' the DD with 4. d4 or 4. Qf3, or (even more
pleasantly) refute it with 4. Nxf7? (5. Qe7!)

Joev
 

--
_____________________________________________________
DDDDDDDDD   JJJJJJ      | Joev Dubach
     D      J     J     | dubach1@husc.harvard.edu
     D      J     J     | North House
D    D      J     J     | Harvard University
DDDDD    *  JJJJJJ  *   | Cambridge, MA 02138
From: tcmaint@sail.LABS.TEK.COM (-Broadband Network Maintenance)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Solvability Garbage
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:58:30 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.



Ok, the last word on chess solvabilty.

	1. IF chess is solvable it would have been solved.
	2. Chess has not been solved.
	3. Therefore to date chess is not solvable.

Only the solution will prove this wrong, so if you don't agree please post
the solution to chess for all to read. ;-)
From: schiller@whorf (Eric Schiller)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: F-S II Game 8 - 33.Qc
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:40:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: midway.1992Sep28.164050.21266
Reply-To: schiller@sapir.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1906.3104.uupcb@synapse.isis.org>  
lee.matheson@synapse.isis.org (Lee Matheson) writes:
> Jim,
>    Another move that is fun to look at (for white) is 33.Qc2!
> I've played over this with the help of Knight Stalker, and it leads
> to a complex game after 33.Qc2, Nc1, 34.Qd1, f6! with chances for
> both sides.  Knight Stalker initially prefers white, but after half
> a dozen or moves or so it gradually changes its assessment to
> prefering black, .... but nothing decisive.
> 
> Lee Matheson, Ottawa
> ---
>  . OLX 2.1 TD . Set phasers on destruc.. oops, sorry - Wrong Echo
>                                                 

According to extensive analysis by Leonid Shamkovich, a Grandmaster,  
33.Qc2! is best and provides excellent winning chances. I am trying to get  
permission to post some of our analysis, which will be published in a book  
immediately after the match, but it may take some time for the publishers  
to agree.
--
***** ** *** **** ***** ** *** **** ***** ** *** **** ***** ** *** ****
Eric Schiller                              schiller@sapir.uchicago.edu
Dept of Linguistics, Univ. of Chicago      schiller@whorf.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Monday, 5 Oct 1992 00:25:42 CDT
From: David James Alexander Hanley <U55870@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: 1. g3 Nf6 2. Bg2 d5 3. c4

  Well, 3.. dc is a mistake.  This is virtually a reti opening and should be
played as such.  3. .. c6 followed by bf5 and e6 should be the beginning of a
loonnngg game.

dave
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     ....      | SEND MAIL TO : HANLEY1@EARTH.EECS.UIC.EDU   NOWHERE ELSE!!!
    " "" "     | "Christianity is stupid" -- Negativland
  @  @  @  @   | "None are as blind as those who have no eyes"
D   A    V   E | "Pay no attention to that mind behind the curtian" - OZ

The university of illinois at chicago is not responsible for my opinions.
However, the American martial arts association and the black dragon
fighting society will defend anything I say to the death.
From: jeff@econBerkeley.EDU (Jeffrey C. Ely)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: test
Date: 6 Oct 1992 21:23:53 GMT
Organization: Econometrics Laboratory, U. C. Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: emily5.berkeley.edu

This is a test

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++|+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Jeff Ely                         |    "He said the Sun's not yellow...  
Department of Economics          |     It's Chicken!" 
UC Berkeley
From: dweddin@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: CM3000 BUGS...HELP
Date: 27 Sep 92 20:08:41 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

chessmaster 3000 bug

when i import algebraic games and i have a capture where two
pieces can do the taking, i get an error.

i.e.

   Nbxe4

also, when i import discriptive notation, i get errors for
ALL captures...

   PxP

how have others solved these problesm????

don wedding
From: Tom.Truscott@mailbox.bison.mb.ca (Tom Truscott)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Chess is not solvable
Date: 24 Sep 92 22:58:45 CST

Organization: IBM RTP

>2.  Computers will never brute-force solve the game.  Therefore, they will
>*never* solve it.  Searching partial trees won't cut it as you also eliminate
>many paths that might disturb the final results.

It is fair game to eliminate paths that *provably* do not disturb the final
results.  And to terminate search on paths that have a provable result.
For example, many positions can be proven "drawn"
due to insufficient mating material.
In 100 years we (or some other intelligence) might develop a
sophisticated new "algebra" that allows us to calculate
the game-theoretic value of large classes of chess positions.
That would reduce the search space to the point that chess could
be solved in a practical amount of time.

Tom Truscott

 * Origin: The Electronic Mailbox (1:348/7.0)

Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: koziarz@chinet.chi.il.us (Louis Koziarz)
Subject: Re: Super Mario in Mushroom Land (PREVIEW)
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 13:41:47 GMT

It was kind of funny to watch full-grown adults try and play this game
by kneeling in front of the machine!  I've also seen arcades try and
adapt games for kids by removing the steel legs and placing the body on
a short plywood platform.  Kids love to watch, if not play, pinball, 
maybe Gottlieb's on to something here...


-- 
Louis Koziarz
koziarz@chinet.chi.il.us
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball,news.answers
From: ung@felix.filenet.com (Bill Ung)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: huh?
Date: 1 Oct 92 20:09:42 GMT
Reply-To: ung@fritz.filenet.com (Bill Ung)
Organization: FileNet Corp., Costa Mesa, CA

In article <38833@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> truth@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Ain't that the TRuth) writes:
|I just read through over 100 articles (I've never seen this list
|before, but I am a fan of pinball) and I saw mentioned a couple of
|times something about "Credits 0" vs. "Credits 0."  Could someone
|please fill me in on what that's about.

There once was a time that a busted switch went unnoticed, until someone
saw the ball roll over it and have nothing register.  Old, old days.
Then, games started checking switches and would log an error if a switch
wasn't actuated after 90 balls were played ... a pretty good indication
that it needed adjustment.  My HIGH SPEED, Williams '86 has this feature.
The annoying part (for lazy operators), is that the game makes this big
hullabaloo when a switch goes bad.  It starts buzzing and firing off the
knocker, anytime the game is powered up or put into diagnostics mode,
and it flashes the bad switch numbers on the screen.  Great, cool, nice
to know, for both players AND operators.  Well, almost.  Operators got
annoyed that the games would do this, partially because it was annoying
for them, and partially because those of us who knew better could go
and complain that switch 35 wasn't working and would ask them to fix it.
Well, for operators, it's far better to have players play in the dark
so they pressured the manufacturers to hide this information from us.
Now, in order to get this information, you power-cycle, the game tests
itself, and if something is wrong, it flashes "Press ENTER for test
report".  Unfortunately, the ENTER key is on the keypad, INSIDE the
coin box.  Players have no access to this key.  Now, assuming most
operators hit the main power switch in the back office, they're never
really around when that message comes up.  To note that something is
wrong, you get "Credits 0." instead of "Credits 0" ... not that half
of them even notice, or care.  So, if you walk up to a game and see
"Credits 0.", you know SOMETHING is wrong with the game, and it's up
to you as to whether you're gonna take your chances or not.  Kind of
a gamble, maybe it's nothing important, maybe it's something VERY
important (like the ramp switch).  "You paid your money, you take
your chances".

|There was also mention of
|hitting the gear shifter at a particular time in HS2.  What was that
|about?

Sorry, I play HS Classic.  Seriously, someone mentioned it, but I
have no idea what it might be.

|Does this group have a FAQ? a list of tips for currently
|popular games (TAF, HS2, T2, etc.)?  Thanks in advance for the info.

An FAQ should be here real soon.  One gets posted here every month.
The PAPS (Pinball Arcade Preservation Society) just game out so the
FAQ shouldn't be too far behind.  There are rule sheets for some games
as well, I think they are listed in the FAQ as well.  Hang out for a
few days, it should be here shortly.

|					- Todd Ruth
|					truth@ucsd.edu

Bill Ung
  ung@filenet.com