HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elrond@freeside.com (SysAdmin)
Newsgroups: houston.general
Subject: Re: News Feed
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 16:04:36 -0600
Distribution: houston
Organization: Rivendell BBS / Hou, TX. / +1 713 941 2236

In <1992Nov10.152612.7996@sun44.synercom.hounix.org> medley@sun44.synercom.hounix.org (Bert Medley) writes:

>Unfortunately, this is a full time proposition.  The numbers Gil posted were
>rather interesting and important to the process from which the need for a 
>domain park or several domain parks can be derived.  For example, houston 
>could be served by 3 or 4 domain parks each domain park gets a primary feed
>from nuchat, neosoft, or some other site.  Membership would be a reasonable
>amount.  These parks could then provide net access to a number of people and
>e-mail/limited feeds to interested users. 

This is exactly what I've been ranting about (in other cicles) for the last
couple of months.  I finaly went ahead and registered the domain here
(freeside.com) as I had the disk-space/system resources of our group.  I'm
currently feeding news to 4 systems, and mail/DNS to about 6 more for a
total of about 10 systems hanging of my domain.  I split the fee for my 
feeds in a co-operative manner with the 4 systems I feed news to, and let
who are using me for mail/DNS "ride-free".  After splitting last months
UUCP connection charges, each "news" site under me (yes I pay an even split
also) paid less that $9.00 for the entire month.  This was at 2400 bps
connects throughout the month.  When I go 14.4k in the near future, I can
expect *that* to reduce dramaticly.  None of these systems have complained
about being "too far from the net", and I have provided them with a fairly
reliable service (no not perfect) that some of them might not have 
otherwise been able to afford.

-- 
+-------------------------+---------------------+-------------------------+
| God is Real...          | elrond@freeside.com | Pull up a dick and have |
| Unless declared integer |  Stephen L. Palmer  | a seat.         (Chong) |
+-------------------------+---------------------+-------------------------+
Newsgroups: houston.general
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: News Feed
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Distribution: houston
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 13:19:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov07.161442.16666@limbic.ssdl.com> gil@limbic.ssdl.com (Gil Kloepfer Jr.) writes:
>As I step down from the proverbial soapbox, I hope that rather than anger
>everyone that I have opened some eyes as to what's happening.  Something
>needs to be done.  Any suggestions?

The two big problems with Usenet today are the Internet and the Domain Name
System.

What, you say? The two biggest improvements in connectivity are the two
biggest problems? Sure. Let's go into why:

	Internet:

		Everyone wants to be "close" to the Internet. In the
	old days, if you were 3 or 4 hops from the local backbone,
	that was OK. Most everyone was 3 or 4 hops away. If you wanted
	to get closer, you found a backbone site somewhere and called
	it up for the groups you wanted most. Then *you* became part
	of the local backbone, and *you* were contributing to the local
	net. These days, some guy with a buddy at a local college or
	money for a uupsi connect gets everything and everyone wants to
	huddle around the trough.

	Domain Name System:

		If you want reliable mail these days, you have to find
	someone to be your MX and join the DNS. If you do that, you
	end up getting your mail feed from your MX. Now you want your
	news feed as reliable as that... and huddle around the trough
	again.

The solution to the first problem is to get some people with reliable
systems to feed folks, instead of leeching on the few folks with money
or connections. I used to do this before my disk crash, and I'll be
doing it again when I get my new system up. I think we can cut the
overall cost of the local net if more people do this, and we can cut
it more if we deliberately set up a *net* with crossfeeds and so on
for the important groups.

The solution to the second is mail parks. The problem with this is, the
DNS really wants you to only have an MX record if you really exist. You
can set up a promiscuous mail park (I have, *.uucp.taronga.com), but it's
frowned upon. The second problem is that mail parks have gotten a bad
name in certain circles because of the early requirement in the .us
domain that you not subdivide your own part of the name space. This is
unfortunate, because it's led to a lot of people (including me) to get
our own domain name. How to make mail parks work better? Again, we need
to get together and plan.

It'd also help if people would send in up-to-date map entries. For local
mail, the Usenet Maps are way more efficient than the DNS.

I'm lousy at organizing, but I think we need a Houston Usenet Sites
group/council/whatever, with regular meetings. This could be a spinoff
from Hounix, or a HACS type organization. Any volunteers to run it?

Gil?
-- 
true(<<VV$@\\$'&O 9$O%'$LT$&$"V6"$&$<4$?'&$ #I&&?$=$<<@)24 24 scale 3 21 moveto
{dup 36 eq{pop not}{dup 7 and 4 sub exch 56 and 8 div 4 sub 2 index{rlineto}{
rmoveto}ifelse}ifelse}forall stroke pop showpage % Have you hugged your wolf...
From: system@korova.freeside.com (razorback)
Newsgroups: sn.chat,houston.general
Subject: Re: Bill Clinton Statue Comitee
Keywords: Bill Clinton Statue politics funny
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:00:51 GMT
Organization: VHF void tube of the mind (713) 492-2783



heheheh! this is going in ONE of the newsletters...dunno 
which...whichever gets put out first...

who wrote it?

squid

--
                          the korova milkbar
             land of the CHEEZ          home of the WHOPPER
                             713-492-2783
Newsgroups: houston.general
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: News Feed
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Distribution: houston
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 13:26:51 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.170002.18453@sun44.synercom.hounix.org> medley@sun44.synercom.hounix.org (Bert Medley) writes:
>But the main problem as Gil has stated (this is a 2nd post) is that to carry a 
>full feed requires more than 19 hours of modem time...

I don't see why anyone should have to carry a full feed if we organize things
right. I've never even considered it, even with the disk and modems to do
so. What's the magic allure? Unless you're a pay site why should you carry
more than those groups you and sites you're feeding want?

Also, what's with the big antipathy towards pay sites? The charges for a full
feed are reasonable, and they offer additional services for your money like
internet access, and the right to complain if something goes wrong. For a
partial feed, it's even better.

After all, you've sunk a couple of grand into your hobby already... plus
electricity, phone charges, your time. Feed charges are a drop in the
bucket. And nobody says you can't bundle your own feed out to other
sites and share the cost, as the freeside people do.

>The problem is the volume of news.

It's not going to go down, so forget that. And the Internet isn't going to
go away, so forget *that*. Let's work on solutions we can do something
about: better organization, splitting feed duties for news, keeping the
local maps up to date (thanks, Stan), and setting up mail parks like
freeside or neosoft or taronga.

>We could stop carrying alt, and perhaps misc, but that simply prolongs the 
>problem.

Actually, I'd say if you want to look for some place to cut, try the
sources and binaries groups.
-- 
true(<<VV$@\\$'&O 9$O%'$LT$&$"V6"$&$<4$?'&$ #I&&?$=$<<@)24 24 scale 3 21 moveto
{dup 36 eq{pop not}{dup 7 and 4 sub exch 56 and 8 div 4 sub 2 index{rlineto}{
rmoveto}ifelse}ifelse}forall stroke pop showpage % Have you hugged your wolf...
From: dkl@xcluud.sccsi.com (David Leikam)
Newsgroups: sn.chat,houston.general
Subject: Re: Bill Clinton Statue Comitee
Keywords: Bill Clinton Statue politics funny
Date: 7 Nov 92 00:09:28 GMT
Organization: Greater Montrose UFO Appreciation Society & Data Haven

In article <5JRsTB9w165w@korova.freeside.com> system@korova.freeside.com (razorback) writes:
>
>who wrote it?

  It's apocryphal, except for the names. I first heard it over 15 years
ago, as part of a much longer piece, and it was unattributed even then.


-- 
dkl@xcluud.sccsi.com | My company doesn't know Usenet exists, and my boss
and other places,    | would have kittens if he thought I spoke for them.
even more unsavory.  | My opinions are better than theirs anyway.
Newsgroups: houston.general
From: medley@sun44.synercom.hounix.org (Bert Medley)
Subject: Re: News Feed
Organization: Synercom Technology, Inc., Houston, TX
Distribution: houston
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:00:02 GMT

In article <X10LPQL@taronga.com> peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>In article <1992Nov07.161442.16666@limbic.ssdl.com> gil@limbic.ssdl.com (Gil Kloepfer Jr.) writes:
>>As I step down from the proverbial soapbox, I hope that rather than anger
>>everyone that I have opened some eyes as to what's happening.  Something
>>needs to be done.  Any suggestions?
>
>The two big problems with Usenet today are the Internet and the Domain Name
>System.
>

But the main problem as Gil has stated (this is a 2nd post) is that to carry a 
full feed requires more than 19 hours of modem time - 5+ to get the full feed,
5+ to pass it on, and ~4 to provide 3-4 20% feeds to leaf sites.  This leaves
the 4+ hours that are left to try to connect and carry e-mail.  All in all, 
probably more than 24 hrs.

The problem is the volume of news.  Many of the groups carry extraneous posts
and recurring topics rather than taking the discussion offline.  The "me too"
posts and their ilk cause a large noise to signal ratio that should be actively
discouraged.  The recurring topics should be handled in a FAQ and the querant
referred to same BY EMAIL.  Couple this with the abuses seen in alt and you
get 25MB to 40MB of news per day.  A proactive effort would have to be enacted
by USENET users to teach the newcomers what the net is about and how to use it.
But even then ...

We could stop carrying alt, and perhaps misc, but that simply prolongs the 
problem.

-- 
Bert Medley				medley@synercom.hounix.org 	[work]
					bert@medley.ssdl.com		[home]
Newsgroups: houston.general
From: patrick@is.rice.edu (Patrick L Humphrey)
Subject: Re: News Feed (also, re: internet hogs)
Summary: Head for the stadium!
Organization: Rice University
Distribution: houston
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 19:45:09 GMT

In article <BxKGFp.77G@rice.edu> sbyrnes@rice.edu (Steven Byrnes) writes:
>On Wed, 11 Nov 92 00:52:46 GMT, James Hartman, Sysop said:
>
>> I assume, since there are six or seven of us working off of this feed
>> (much thanks and good vibes moving towards Michael Bundy, BTW, thanks
>> thanks) that there are probably other small groups of people running
>> around loose in the feed biz, both large and small sites.  Why not get
>> all these local people together for a regular meeting?  I'll throw in my
>> support.
>
>How about if we integrate it with the semi-regular Lunch Bunch thang?
>(Just looking for ways to boost attendance.  :)

No problem -- if it works that well, we'll just have to move it into Rice
Stadium.  (I don't know what the Owls will think of us being at a football
game, though -- can you see a play announced as "touchdown!cobb!emanuel"?
:-)

>Speaking of which, does a meeting on Saturday, the 21st at the same place
>(Two Pesos) and time (noonish) sound reasonable?
>
>Steven

If we beat Baylor, I'll be at the Navy game that afternoon -- after waiting
29 years for a winning football team, I'm not about to miss that historic
moment...but noon will be early enough for Dale and I to hit and run...

-- 
Patrick L. Humphrey  (patrick@is.rice.edu)  Rice Networking & Computing Systems
     713 528-3626 or 527-4989 at Rice, 713 776-1541 or 981-5952 at home. 
  (This .sig is costing the net hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars -- but
           every little bit helps when you're pumping up the GNP...) 
Newsgroups: houston.general
From: gil@limbic.ssdl.com (Gil Kloepfer Jr.)
Subject: Re: News Feed
Organization: Southwest Systems Development Labs, Houston, TX
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 06:23:27 GMT

In article <721347659.F00001@f-454.fidonet.org> Wonko.The.Sane@p360.f9178.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Wonko The Sane) writes:
>Here in Houston, we have several usenet \fidonet gates, which change usenet
>newsgroups into fido compatible echomail (how I am reaching you now) for more
>info, write to Howard Gerber (1:106/88, Howard.gerber@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org)
>  Jason Hemmenway

Here on the net, we have all your echomail and more, and we don't know
how to bring it down to a reasonable size.  Any ideas?

PS--I'm one of Howard's gateways.  I don't think that fido is the answer
to our problems.
-- 
! Gil Kloepfer, Jr.
! gil@limbic.ssdl.com / ...!ames!limbic!gil
Newsgroups: houston.general
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: News Feed
Organization: Taronga Park BBS
Distribution: houston
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 04:15:49 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.045923.10759@limbic.ssdl.com> gil@limbic.ssdl.com (Gil Kloepfer Jr.) writes:
>1.  Peter almost entirely disagrees with me on every point I've made.  I
>likewise do with him.

The problem is I'm trying to propose solutions that don't involve magic
(reducing the volume of a full feed, for example, isn't a practical
solution) and you keep shooting them down without really considering
them. Let's face it, the day when it was practical for a typical site
that's not on the Internet to get a full feed is over. Has been for at
least a couple of years. I haven't tried to run a full feed since the
mid-'80s, and the only reason sugar can manage it is a radically short
expire.

What I don't understand is, why do people insist they need one, then
complain when it's expensive. Sure it is, so is subscribing to every
magazine you're interested in. So you don't... you subscribe to some,
and buy occasional issues of others at the bookstore.

>Until about two weeks ago, I thought I was the only one who thought that
>there was too much netnews.

There's been too much netnews for a long time, but the only way to reduce
it is to cut the number of groups you carry. You can't stop the Internet.

As for old-timers dropping out of the net... that's been going on as long
as I can remember. Usenet burnout isn't a new phenomenon.
-- 
true(<<VV$@\\$'&O 9$O%'$LT$&$"V6"$&$<4$?'&$ #I&&?$=$<<@)24 24 scale 3 21 moveto
{dup 36 eq{pop not}{dup 7 and 4 sub exch 56 and 8 div 4 sub 2 index{rlineto}{
rmoveto}ifelse}ifelse}forall stroke pop showpage % Have you hugged your wolf...
From: denham@hmsp04.wg3.waii.com (Scott Denham X7117)
Newsgroups: houston.general
Subject: Re: Places that buy used ("previously owned") books
Date: 6 Nov 92 00:27:38 GMT
Distribution: houston
Organization: Western Geo. - Div of Western Atlas Intn'l Inc., Houston, TX

In article <1992Nov5.162835.9775@texhrc.uucp> njr@texhrc.uucp (Nick J. Rees) writes:

>I remember hearing something about a 'books for Russia' drive
>some time after the coup was defeated. Apparently there is
>a big demand for books over there. Since I am only going to get
>a few pennies for my books at local stores here, I would prefer
>to send them somewhere where they might be appreciated.
>
>Does anybody have any information about this program? Is there
>somewhere in Houston where I could drop off books that I no
>longer need?

You can always take them to the International Seaman's Center out at
the Port of Houston; they maintain a library of books and magazines 
that are free for the taking for seamen passing through. They apparently
move a pretty large volume of reading material through there...
From: elrond@freeside.com (SysAdmin)
Newsgroups: sn.chat,houston.general
Subject: Bill Clinton Statue Comitee
Keywords: Bill Clinton Statue politics funny
Date: 5 Nov 92 23:05:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rivendell BBS / Hou, TX. / +1 713 941 2236

Bill Clinton
Statue Committee
1040 Butoo Street
Little Rock, AR 72205



Dear Friend,

    We have the distinguished honor of being on the committee for raising five
million dollars for placing a statue of Bill Clinton at the Hall of Fame in
Washington, D.C.

    The committee is in quandary as to where to place the statue, being not
wise to place it beside the statue of George Washington, who never told a lie,
and not beside Jessie Jackson, who never told the truth, as Bill Clinton could
never tell the difference.

    We finally decided to place it beside Christopher Columbus, the greatest
democrat of all.  He left not knowing where he was going, and did not know
where he was.  He returned not knowing where he went, and did it on borrowed
money.

    Over five thousand years ago, Moses said to the children of Isreal,"Pick
up your shovels, mount your asses and camels, and I will lead you to the
Promised Land."  Nearely five thousand years later, Roosevelt said, "Lay down
your shovels, sit on your asses, light up a Camel.  This is the Promised Land!"

    Now Bill Clinton is going to steal your shovels, kick your asses, raise the
price of Camels, and mortgage the Promised Land.  If you are one of the
fortunate people who has anything left after taxes, we expect a generous
contribution to this project.


                                            Clinton Statue Committee




PS: Bill Clinton is considering changing the Democratic Party emblem from a
    donkey  to a condom, because it stands for inflation, protects a bunch of
    pricks, halts production, and gives a false sense of security while being
    screwed.

-- 
+-------------------------+---------------------+-------------------------+
| God is Real...          | elrond@freeside.com | Pull up a dick and have |
| Unless declared integer |  Stephen L. Palmer  | a seat.         (Chong) |
+-------------------------+---------------------+-------------------------+
From: Tucker.Latham@p360.f9178.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Tucker Latham)
Newsgroups: houston.general
Subject: Places that buy used ("previously owned") books
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1992 15:16:13 -0600

*** Quoting Jeffrey Mackey to All dated 11-03-92 ***
> I have very mixed feelings about Half Price Books. Lord
> knows this hasn't stopped me from giving them business, but...
> 
Hehehe....
From: bert@medley.ssdl.com (Bert Medley)
Newsgroups: houston.general
Subject: Re: News Feed
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 23:39:52 CST
Reply-To: bert@medley.ssdl.com
Distribution: houston
Organization: Medley's Homestyle Waffle

paul@xcluud.sccsi.com (Paul Hutmacher) writes:

> In article <1992Nov10.152612.7996@sun44.synercom.hounix.org> medley@sun44.syn
> >A USENET Site Council/Group would be nice but very difficult to organize.  S
> >sysops may take it personally when told how to run their sites.  It could be
> >started underneath HOUNIX and then, perhaps, become autonomous.  Comments?
> 
> Underneath Hounix?  Before the fifteen dollar dinner and after the demo, righ
> 
> <snicker>
> 

I stand corrected.  It has already been stated that should and must be an
individual effort not directly connected to an organization.  The problem is
arriving at a solution with a minimum of waffling (no pun) and bickering.
I know this must be done if USENET (news) and UUCPnet is to survive in
houston but I have no clear idea about how to solve it.
From: Thomas.Kennedy@p360.f2770.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Thomas Kennedy)
Newsgroups: houston.general
Subject: Anyone know why Rupp is leaving?
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1992 16:50:20 -0600

         About Rupp leaving Rice:You are correct...He's leaving mainly over a
dispute about a fund raiser.  Athletics has a small part to do with it.
From: medley@sun44.synercom.hounix.org (Bert Medley)
Subject: Re: News Feed
Organization: Synercom Technology, Inc., Houston, TX
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:03:58 GMT

In article <721347659.F00001@f-454.fidonet.org> Wonko.The.Sane@p360.f9178.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Wonko The Sane) writes:
>Here in Houston, we have several usenet \fidonet gates, which change usenet
>newsgroups into fido compatible echomail (how I am reaching you now) for more
>info, write to Howard Gerber (1:106/88, Howard.gerber@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org)
>  Jason Hemmenway
>

But where do you get your feed, hmmmmm?  With the "demise" of xcluud, the only
sites that will offer a new full feed are the pay sites, nuchat and neosoft.
New partial feeds may be available from other sites but the trend for the full
feed providers are towards pay systems.

-- 
Bert Medley				medley@synercom.hounix.org 	[work]
					bert@medley.ssdl.com		[home]
Newsgroups: houston.music
From: mikes@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Shou-Yung Shum)
Subject: Re: Joint Chiefs & Blender @ Rudz
Organization: Rice University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 05:00:06 GMT

In article <1689912147.GILBERT@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> GILBERT@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU (GILBERT, S A) writes:
>In article <BxE8tC.JyF@rice.edu>
>mikes@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Shou-Yung Shum) writes:
> 
>>>Its a party!
>>>Celebrate Republican Ruin with 2 of Houston's most talented bands:
>>>the blasting, bright and beautiful Blender & the jumpin', funkin',
>>>and chapman-stickin' Joint Chiefs at Houston's finest pub, Rudyards.
>>>Saturday 11/7.
>>
>>actually houston's most talented band _the hunger_ will be playing @
>>metronome south on the 12th (this thursday).
>>
>>yours,m
>>
>>
>Most talented? M, the Hunger are, like, from hunger.
>--SAG

just what is that supposed to mean?

yours,m

Newsgroups: houston.music
From: vek@spacsun.rice.edu (Vincent E. Kargatis)
Subject: JAZZ: Horace Tapscott @ Paradox FRI.
Organization: Rice University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 04:37:05 GMT

Wonderful LA pianist Horace Tapscott will be playing at 

the Paradox (formerly the Blue Moon) 
Nov. 6 Friday (tonight) at 8 and 10 pm, 

courtesy of SumArts (who brought us Oliver Lake, the Jazz Fest, and Billy 
Harper).

Tapscott has been a major influence in LA for over twenty years, founding
an "underground" group dedicated to the new creative jazz at the same time
as AACM in Chicago and BAG in St. Louis came to fore. He successfully
bridges the mainstream and avant-garde, and will be a rare treat for those
interested in the music.
-- 
| Vincent Kargatis                      |  "It was jump or die."             |
| Dept. of Space Physics and Astronomy  |                                    |
| Rice University, Houston, TX          |      Marilyn Crispell to Anthony   |
| [vek@spacsun.rice.edu]                |        Braxton on his Comp. 69C    |
Newsgroups: houston.music
From: mikes@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Shou-Yung Shum)
Subject: Re: Joint Chiefs & Blender @ Rudz
Organization: Rice University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 10:51:11 GMT

In article <16898E6A5.GILBERT@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> GILBERT@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU (GILBERT, S A) writes:
>Its a party!
>Celebrate Republican Ruin with 2 of Houston's most talented bands:
>the blasting, bright and beautiful Blender & the jumpin', funkin',
>and chapman-stickin' Joint Chiefs at Houston's finest pub, Rudyards.
>Saturday 11/7.

actually houston's most talented band _the hunger_ will be playing @
metronome south on the 12th (this thursday).

yours,m



Newsgroups: houston.music