HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Justice and Gant
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:58:25 GMT
Organization: Biochemistry

In article <8528@news.duke.edu> fls@econ.duke.edu (Forrest Smith) writes:
>
>	The Braves should certainly consider trading off both Gant and Justice
>while they are worth something.
... 

Well, I'd agree that probably one of the two should go.  But one of those two
should stick around for whenever Otis Nixon reverts to the .220 hitter that we
all know that he is.  Besides, until Mr. Sanders gets a no-Football Claus in
his contract, the Braves are stuck with three outfielders for at least part of
the season.  (Also, was last season a fluke for Deion?  He's got to show a
little consistancy before putting your faith in him.)

I won't be surprised if the Braves struggle some this season because of the
questions in the OF.  Justice is good when healthy, but how often is he
healthy?  If Gant could have fielded 2B just half-decently, then no one would
complain about his bat.  As it is, he can be very good and very bad within the
same season.  30-30 is nothing to sneeze at, but within two years, he may be a
15-15 guy.  AACCHHOO!  Here's hoping Melvin Nieves is for real.  (Also, here's
hoping that sometime next year we can trade Nixon to the Red Sox.  Lou Gorman
would love him.)
Eric Roush			Deck us all with Boston Charlie
fierkelab@			Walla Walla Wash and Kalamazoo!
bchm.biochem.duke.edu	Nora's freezin' on the Trolley,
				Swaller Dollar Cauliflower Alla-ga-Roo!

				Walt Kelley
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Poor Lonnie Smith
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:54:30 GMT

In article <8365@news.duke.edu> fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu writes:
>One thing that doesn't seem to be in dispute is that Lonnie Smith can still
>HIT!  The Braves tried for two years to trade him to an American League club. 
>Now Lonnie signs with another NL club.  Doesn't something seem wrong here?  If
>ever a player was meant to play DH, wouldn't it be Lonnie?

Nah.  Then fly balls to LF would be merely routine.  Spoil all the
excitement...

Cheers,
-Valentine
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (K. Mitchell Bose)
Subject: Re: Hall of Fame voting (read - Disgusted)
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 93 15:00:50 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1993Jan8.203649.75114@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> gaf5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Gail A. Fullman) writes:
>>
>Weren't Niekro and Garvey on the ballot for the first time?  The writers don't
>really like to vote too many in on the player's first year of eligibility;
>they like to reserve that "honor" for the truly "special" players.  If this
>sounds like bunk, it is.

Er, Reggie was a first-timer, too...

And that "bunk" only became such in the last ten years or so (I believe in the
year Brooksie was elected to the Hall, it crumbled forever).

(The bias against first timers, not the HOF. :) )
>
>I think the writers truly enjoy the power they have over a player for the HOF.
>Just think, if player a pissed them off during his carrer, they don't vote
>for him on the first, maybe not even the second or third times on the ballot.

By this logic, Garvey, the premier TWG of the late 1970's, should have walked
in.  A white guy in a media town whose only viable strengths are exactly those
that the voters look for?  Against the epitome of the mercenary player, whose
feuds with management, the media, and everyone else with a pulse at the time,
whose sheer egotism was so great that New York could barely hold it?  Which
one of those would be more likely to piss a writer off?


-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) * kbos@carina.unm.edu * Walks: not that sexy.
"Halt!  Based on conclusive dental evidence that truly bites, I arrest you 
 hereby for the murdering of the dead Belzic Tascar.  I am obliged to warn you 
 that my weapons are registered as offensive fronds!!"- R.M.Allen, "Monkey See"
From: gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Hall of Fame voting (read - Disgusted)
Date: 8 Jan 93 05:01:15 GMT
Organization: Somewhere in Hoboken

if i was voting on the hof this year, i would have voted for reggie, and phil.
 maybe cepeda, or perez, but probably not (i don't have their
 career numbers).  no one else. 

i think reggie is miles ahead of phil - but i think phil should get in.
 rather than say "phil should be in because so and so is", i prefer to
 think of the hall as those who were very distinctive players over
 thecourse of history (in terms of their "stats", not if they
 developed the chest protector or something). and phil IS.  cepeda
 and perez really aren't (as much).

 - bob gaj
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: frisch1@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan Katz)
Subject: Re: Cecil signs :-( :-( :-(
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:40:50 GMT

I don't understand you guys.  Fielder is one of the five best first basemen in
the league right now.  His avergae last year was an aberration.  And besides, his
average wasnt _that bad_ considering how many homeruns he hit.  He's been an
all-star the past three years, too (a starter a couple of times also, if I am
correct).  That clearly makes him beter than 'marginally above average'.

Besides, and this will probably get a lot of flaming, I think that had he not
missed time in Japan, he would now be on the way to a HOF career.
-Jonathan Katz
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: The Minnesota Twins
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:12:15 GMT

In article <9301081758.AA09478@sumac09.cray.com> jjd@teak.cray.com (Jeff Drummond) writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.160407.19251@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>>
>>What does their lineup look like?  The keys (Puckett, Hrbek, Harper,
>>Mack) are all another year older, and the loss of Gagne will hurt.
>
>It is true that Puckett, Hrbek and Harper have, in all likelyhood, put
>their best seasons behind them (not that any of them will necessarily
>be an embarrassment next year).  Mack, on the other hand, could still
>improve.

I doubt it.  He has been in the majors for at least three seasons, and
will be 29 (I think) next season.  His stats fluctuate a bit, but they
show no clear pattern of improvement.  I suspect he has learned all he
ever will, and will suffer the slow decline of age.  A pity he wasn't
given a chance to play when he was 25, though.  I bet he could have
handled it.  (And he wasn't given a no-questions full-time job until
*last* year!)

>Knoblauch should also continue to improve.

Agreed.  Though he's unlikely to gain significant power, IMHO, and so
his improvement may be less obvious (and less important a factor?).
The players you *really* salivate over are the young hitters with
power potential like Griffey (who could have a 35-40 HR season soon).

Cheers,
-Valentine


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Hatteberg
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:22:12 GMT

In article <1iutp4INNag8@menudo.uh.edu> chee1l5@Jane.UH.EDU writes:
>
>Other guys I noticed with high winter ball OPS's
>                          League    AB   H  HR  BB   BA   OBP  SLG  OPS
>Scott Hatteburg (Red Sox)  AFL      94  37  3   16  .394 .477 .585 1.062   

Hatteburg is one reason the Red Sox released Wedge.  (So they didn't
release him.  They protected Burks over Wedge, and then released
Burks.  Same difference.)  I don't know whether to be encouraged by
these numbers or not.  They very much like his defense, and supposedly
think he can hit.  But last year he played in New Britain, and so had
a poor year with the bat.  (Nobody hits in New Britain, so this isn't
necessarily a bad sign.  But it isn't encouraging either.)

Three HR in 94 AB?  If he can hit .270 with 12 HR in the majors, I
would certainly like him.  He walks a lot, of course.  But I suspect a
.260 average with 5 HR is more likely.  Not bad, for a catcher, but
not Eric Wedge either.

-Valentine
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Lists: The Best Players In Baseeball
Keywords: stars best baseball
Date: 7 Jan 93 21:45:20 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering

Thus spake dfl@math.wayne.edu (David Frohardt-Lane):

  [re Gord Niguma's "best" picks...]

>>Best Players Overall:
>>2B: Ryne Sandberg
>
>Alomar was about even with Sandberg in 1992, maybe just slightly behind.
>(Sandberg creamed Alomar in SLG, but Alomar was ahead in OBP, plus he's
>faster and better defensively).  So for 1993, I think I'd go with
>Alomar.

I have Sandberg at about 44 marginal runs (.28 per game) and Alomar at about
35 marginal runs (.23 per game).  Park effects might just bring them even,
but for '93 I think Alomar is the clear favorite.

>>C:  Mickey Tettleton (until Daulton can do it back to back)

>It's hard to beleive that Tettleton is really the best catcher in the
>majors, but I can't think of anyone who is better.

Why is that hard to believe?  Before park adjustments, but including position
adjustment, he was the 14th most valuable player in *baseball* last year, in
a more or less typical season for him.  (OK, that's if you consider him a pure
catcher.  Deflate for the games he played at DH, and he's still in the top 20.)



-- 
       David Tate        |"Out of the dugout endlessly swinging,
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | Out of the manager's throat, the sound fundamentals,
 Prof. of Story Problems | Out of the six-month season..."            
 Member ORSA, TIMS, SABR | 	Walt "Lefty" Whitman
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dfl@math.wayne.edu (David Frohardt-Lane)
Subject: Re: Cecil signs :-( :-( :-(
Organization: Wayne State University Math Department, Detroit
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 21:11:22 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.182153.25244@cbnewse.cb.att.com> gotribe@cbnewse.cb.att.com (richard.g.barry) writes:
>You guys get so bogged down in your stats and comparisons, that you
>forget what the Detroit owner really wants to do - get people to
>the park and make money.  Fielder is as big (no pun intended) in
>Detroit as other superstars are in other towns.  When the town loses
>the superstars, they tend not to support the team until they either
>get a new superstar or start winning.  In Chicago, the guys on
>the radio are already advocating not going to Bears pre-season games
>next year because McCaskey fired Ditka (Chicagos' newest superstar
>hero).  Detroit needs Fielder and $$$ shouldn't be an issue.

I agree that Fielder is more valuable to the Tigers than you might think
by just looking at his statistics.  Nevertheless, I do not think that he
is worth $7 million/year to the Tigers.  There were some rumors that
Abbott was coming to Detroit for Fielder.  In this case, you wouldn't
have to worry about the fans getting mad, because Abbott would be able
to take Fielder's place.  After all, Abbott was one of the most popular
sports figures in the state while he was at U of M.

What I am most upset about is the fact that Ilitch announced when he
bought the team that signing Fielder was at the top of his agenda.  Had
he not made that statement, it would have certainly been easier to
trade Fielder away.

--
David Frohardt-Lane   dfl@math.wayne.edu 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Go Tigers, Lions, Pistons, Red Wings and Wolverines !!!!!!!!!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Closers
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 05:49:27 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.034410.17760@meteor.wisc.edu> stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Stephen Jascourt) writes:
>Why hasn't anyone mentioned Rod Beck? His '92 stats were awesome and people
>I've talked to who saw him were extremely impressed with his arsenal and expect
>a comparable performance in '93. 

One could make a case that Beck in '92 was better than Eckersley--Beck
pitched twelve more innings, allowed the same number of hits (but fewer
doubles and home runs), and only walked four more (though I don't have
IBB data.)  

Then again, Beck allowed 9 of 41 inherited runners to score (vs. 2 of 31
for Eck) and lost three games vs. the Eck's 1.

If Beck were used more like the Eck (shorter relief stints -- Eck averages
about 20 pitches or less, and just about never throws more than 30), he'd 
be even more awesome.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
never shout movie in a crowded firestation
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: wall@cc.swarthmore.edu (Matthew Wall)
Subject: Re: SMOKING BANS at ballparks?
Followup-To: rec.sport.baseball
Organization: Hi, I'm Matt, and I'm...a Boston Red Sox fan
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:12:25 GMT

In article <1ikhoaINNdkk@meaddata.meaddata.com>, brian@meaddata.com (Brian
Curran) wrote:
> 
> Today's paper reports that the Orioles have become the fifth major-league
> team to ban smoking at their open-air stadiums.  Two questions:
> 
> 1) What are the other four?
> 2) How effective has enforcement of this ban been?
> -- 
> 

When I was in Oakland this year, a guy behind me lit up. I started to think
, yeah, what a crock this smoking ban is, I bet he drops ashes on me. As I
was about to get up to get an usher, the smoke hit the row behind the
smoker. About four people yacked at him right away to put it out. He did.

Outside of New York, then, simply having a ban and the threat of an usher
nearby is probably enough to enforce it.

Cheers for the Orioles. I don't care if it's "open air", smokers, the smoke
gets in my eyes and lungs and on my clothes as much as it would indoors,
and it's one of the few things I loath about going to the park.

Now if Philly would only get a "No New Yorkers" section at Mets games...8-)

- matt

PS Not that I'm hurrying to any Phillies games this year. Go Wilmington
Blue Rocks!
---------------------------------------------------------
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Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: wall@cc.swarthmore.edu (Matthew Wall)
Subject: Re: Cecil signs :-( :-( :-(
Followup-To: rec.sport.baseball
Organization: Hi, I'm Matt, and I'm...a Boston Red Sox fan
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:06:40 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.124750@IASTATE.EDU>, tloughin@IASTATE.EDU (Thomas M
Loughin) wrote:

> 
> Gee, Rich, ya got any STATS on how many fans Cecil brings to the ballpark?
> I'll bet they're mostly big eaters, too, providing a bigger concession take,
> unlike those scrawny Barry Bonds fans.  I'd like to see a COMPARISON...;-}
> 
> In truth, you're probably right, though.  I can't imagine that Milt Cuyler 
> would pack 'em in the park.
> 
> -Tom

Tom, you are so right. I remove any thought of a diet and stuff another hot
dog down my pudgy craw just *thinking* about the fact John Kruk and Cecil
Fielder not only have major league jobs, but are pretty good ballplayers.
I'm sure I can outrun Kruk in a sprint even today, and this is from a guy
who could do the 40 yard dash in almost 10 seconds in high school when he
was in shape. Now *that's* money in the bank for any ball club.

- matt
---------------------------------------------------------
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Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mcgill@lds.loral.com (Chris McGill 5471)
Subject: Re: Riots and Dodgers?
Organization: Loral Data Systems
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 01:45:08 GMT

In article <1993Jan13.005857.20025@lds.loral.com> mcgill@lds.loral.com (Chris McGill 5471) writes:
>In article <76567@apple.apple.COM> spud@Apple.COM (Dave "Spud" Kalin) writes:
>>>Last year (63-99) was worse than that.  
>>>Winning pct. of .389 was the worst for the Dodgers since 1912.
>>>Losses (99) was the most for the Dodgers since 1908.
>>>Last place finish was the only time since 1905.
>>
>>
>>This may seem like a foolish question, but it could be food for thought: Do
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Yes, I'd have to agree with you there...
>>you think there may have been some correlation between the LA riots and
>>the LA Dodgers?  Now before you go flaming me, consider that the Dodgers had
>>to reschedule a few home games early in the season; the extended road trip
>>early on could have had an effect on morale, and the rest of the season.
>>Also, people in LA may have had more important things on their mind than
>>going to Dodger Stadium (near downtown, btw).
>>
>>Of course, this is all mere speculation.  Let me know what you think.
>Spud, I sure hope this is supposed to be a joke, but I see no smiley's.
>That is about the most preposterous thing I've seen in this group since
>gaining access this month. If you think the riots were about baseball, I think
>you been living inthe world of baseball too long. It's time to come back to
>the real world and see the state of society today. I hope this does not come
>off as too major a flame, but I was truly insulted by this question....
>Peace...but probably NOT in our lifetime...
>>
>>-Spud
>Chris...
I just receieved an e-mail, that suggested I may have read the above wrong.
In that case, I want to apologize to Spud. I took his post to imply that the
dodgers had an effect on the rioting. I'm sorry, I amVERY sensitive to that 
whole situation for reasons that need not be posted here. Again, my apologies
to Spud....

Peace...but probably NOT in our lifetime...

Chris...

-- 
Christopher S. McGill      | ....56F cleared 30R. Please expedite...BE
MCGILL@WORLD.SINET.SLB.COM |        ADVISED we have an MD88 on short final..
MCGILL@MAIL.LDS.LORAL.COM  |
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: epstein@cs.uiuc.edu (Milt Epstein)
Subject: Re: HOF
Reply-To: epstein@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 02:04:24 GMT

In <1993Jan4.162501.27555@ncar.ucar.edu> wildcat@niwot.scd.ucar.edu (Wes Wildcat) writes:

>	I heard the baseball Hall of Fame ballots are out.  The only eligible
>names are heard were Reggie Jackson, Steve Garvey and Bill Madlock.  Anyone
>know who is eligible and i wonder if Leo Duroucher(sp) will get in this time.

Here is a list I saw:

        Dick Allen, Vida Blue, Bobby Bonds, Ken Boyer, x-Rick Burleson,
x-Bill Campbell, Orlando Cepeda, x-Ron Cey, x-Cecil Cooper, x-Doug
DeCinces, Curt Flood, George Foster, x-Steve Garvey, x-Reggie Jackson,
Jim Kaat, Mickey Lolich, x-Dave Lopes, x-Hal McRae, x-Bill Madlock,
x-Gary Matthews, Minnie Minoso, Thurman Munson, x-Phil Niekro, Tony
Oliva, Tony Perez, Vada Pinson, x-Darrell Porter, Ron Santo, Rusty
Staub, x-Andre Thornton, Luis Tiant, Joe Torre.

x-first year of eligibility

I believe voting is tomorrow (Tuesday).

-- 
Milt Epstein
Department of Computer Science
University of Illinois
epstein@cs.uiuc.edu
From: anon.574@pax.tpa.com.au
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Baseball fans, players and owners
Date: 10 Jan 1993 08:53:40 +1030
Organization: PAX - Public Access Unix (Adelaide,South Australia) - Anonymous Service
Reply-To: anon.574@pax.tpa.com.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: flash.pax.tpa.com.au


        Baseball players are overpaid, undereduated, moronic cretins who 
lack basic social skills.
        Baseball fans contain all of the above characteristics and are 
pathetic because of their interest in such a useless sport which contains 
all of the excitement of a good golf game.
        You can quote me on this!

--
** Anonymity & Privacy by PAX - Public Access Unix (Adelaide,South Australia) **

anon.admin@pax.tpa.com.au (a human)   anon.info@pax.tpa.com.au    (for help)
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For dialup Unix access phone +61-8-235-9010 - online registration.
From: tannerg@carson.u.washington.edu (Glenn Tanner)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Hall of Fame Vote
Date: 6 Jan 1993 07:16:57 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu


What I really want to know is who would vote for Bill Campbell...

GT
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tjs@earth.wustl.edu (tom sullivan)
Subject: Any teams near Santa Fe?
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 06:11:47 GMT


I'm nearing the end of my schooling and am contemplating various place
to search for jobs, one of which is Santa Fe, NM. What is the nearest
minor league team? Does Santa Fe have one now, or is the Dodgers AAA team
in Albuquerque the closest? 

Does anyone out there have an up to date list of minor league teams? Mine
most recent is from the Sporting News in '86.

Please respond via email if possible.

thanks and Go Cardinals!!!

tom sullivan....
From: jclark@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (J. Michael Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Looking for Brewers fans
Date: 5 Jan 93 06:06:46 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Ohio University CS Dept,. Athens

I am looking for Milwaukee Brewers fans to talk Brew Crew with (prefer
one-on-one email discussions). Please e-mail me at jclark@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu
Looking forward to hearing from you....
 
J. Michael Clark
Ohio University
 
P.S. Brewers in '93
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: Dodgers sign Parrish and Ritchie
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 09:36:18 GMT

In article <1ilr19INNdv6@mizar.usc.edu> pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger) writes:

>More crazy moves from Fred Claire...

>Before I post further...is it possible that Fred Claire is actually
>on the San Francisco Giants payroll?  His mission is to make sure
>the Dodgers finish in last place.  Is there any other logical explanation
>for Claire's moves?

Well, with the Tim Wallach/Jody Reed/bench your best player deals, I can
believe it.

>Consider this one.  Mike Scioscia is considered washed up by Claire
>at what, age 32?  So Claire goes out and signs Lance Parrish, age 36.
>Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me.  Uh huh!

Um, no.  First of all, Scioscia is *34* next year, Parrish 37.

While I certainly won'y disagree that age is something to
consider, what ALSO must be considered is talent.  And Parrish is just a
better player than Scioscia.  And cheaper.

>And....considering those pitching rich Philadelphia Phillies, who
>allowed us to sign Kevin Gross (how'd they let such talent get away?)
>Claire again takes talent from those Phils, signing Ritchie.  Geez...
>guess that will make up for the loss of Mike Morgan.  yeah...right!

Gross came from Montreal, not Philadelphia.

And given that he was their top starter (his numbers are almost
identical to Candiotti) last year, I don't see what the complaint is.

Morgan *did* have an excellent year last year, and in 1991 for the
Dodgers, also, but his 89-90 numbers with the Dodgers were much worse
than Gross's, and he had a much worse track record than Gross at the
time the Dodgers signed him.

>These are surely the most trying times in the past 4 decades for 
>us Dodger fans <heavy sigh>

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | Is it too early to start making predictions for 1993?
niepornt@phoenix.    | Probably, but that never stopped me before.
   princeton.edu     | ALE: Baltimore ALW: Chicago NLE: Montreal NLW: Atlanta
Baltimore Orioles 93 | AL MVP: Cal Ripken  AL Cy Young: Mike Mussina
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball