HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: asweatma@crc.ac.uk (A.K. Sweatman)
Subject: Re: Rowing (was: QUESTION ABOUT A NEW POSTING BOARD)
Organization: MRC Human Genome Resource Centre
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:28:08 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.165720.27845@cbnews.cb.att.com>, lib@cbnews.cb.att.com (Lib) writes:
> In article <1992Nov2.173750.49819@ccvax.ucd.ie>, wboatclb@ccvax.ucd.ie writes:
> >  In article <100255@bu.edu>, afinch@bu.edu (Andrew Finch) writes:
> >> 
> >>   DOES ANYONE THINK THERE IS A DEMAND FOR A BOARD ABOUT ROWING (CREW)?  
> >   
> >  From what I've seen there is no demand for a newsgroup (board) about
> >  rowing. Maybe if we started a discussion...........................
> >  ...............we might be able to draw all the rowers, scullers and 
> >  coxes out of their closets contribute to this newsgroup. BTW I'm in
> >  the rowing camp.        
>   
> Personally I'd love to see a rowing board but from the volume of crew
> traffic I see on this board can't say it's justified.
>     
> At any rate now that winter's here in the Northeast (well, cold weather,
> winter's here everywhere) and I'm back on the erg would anyone care
> to suggest some novel (or not so novel) erg workouts I can do to while
> away the long winter. Also any suggestions on where to buy rowing clothing,
> especially if you'd like to suggest some place that caters to women,
> but any place you'd like to recommend would be nice. Thanks.
> 
>    


I've only just looked at this news group for the first time in ages and have 
just seen the post about crew rowing.
I think it would be a good idea to have a separate board. The only reason 
I haven't posted in the past is that I thought this was a group for canoeists,
and didn't want to post something irrelevant.
I wonder if other rowers thought the same?
Sorry if this has been said before, as I said I only just started reading this
again whilst flicking throught he net and noticed something on rowing.

Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: Last of the Mohicans
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 04:20:16 GMT

In article David.T.Greenfield@dartmouth.edu (David T. Greenfield) writes:
>In article scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears) writes:
>>
>> I was wondering where the drops they hiked next to were, as well as
>> 	the drop they ran in their "old" birch canoes.
>
>Did you notice those canoes were white?  I thought birch bark canoes
>were made with the white side of the bark turned in.  The ones I've
>seen are kind of a burgundy color.  Maybe they were painted.

They weren't authentic birch bark canoes.  They were just dressed
up in the prop shop to fit someone's idea of what a birch bark 
canoe should look like.
--
Richard A. Drury
drury@helix.nih.gov
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: morgan@nolichucky.rtp.dg.com (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: Reverse Screw Roll?
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 14:20:04 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC

In article <1992Nov8.201502.9392@ncar.ucar.edu>, chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster) writes:
|> scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears) writes:
|> >billf@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Bill Faus) writes:
|> >>I need some help in doing a reverse screw roll and
|> >
|> >	Are you talking about what William Nealy refers to as a back-roll? 
|> >	Needed when you get flipped while leaning all the way back on your deck
|> >	(i.e. back of helmet touching stern of boat) in shallow water. Nealy
|> >	has a pretty good description of this roll in his book (which I don't
|> >	have with me at the moment).
|> >
|> The one time I flipped in very shallow water (80 cfs), I was leaning
|> all the back.  My reactions went like:
|> 	- drop paddle
|> 	- put one hand in front of face
|> 	- use other hand to push off bottom and roll up
|> 
|> The wrist on the hand that I put in front of face received a
|> couple good cuts.
|> 
|> --Chris

You're lucky that's all that happened.  Several years back I was helping set up a slalom
course when the paddler that was shuttling lines back & forth flipped in shallow water.
As he set up for his roll, one wrist was trapped between two rocks.  As we watched and 
panicked because nobody had a throw rope, nobody else was in a boat, etc., the current
stripped his 'yak off him.  Luckily he was a racer with shoulders like a bull moose and
managed to do a 1-arm pullup against the current and free himself while we were thrashing
around trying to organize a rescue attempt with no boats & only thin line for stringing
gates as rescue tools.  This was a quick reality check for a bunch of supposedly "safe"
boaters who got careless because we weren't running the river, just stringing gates.
-- 
Keith Morgan
Data General
Research Triangle Park, NC
(919)248-6078
morgan@dg-rtp.dg.com
From: afinch@bu.edu (Andrew Finch)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Rowing
Date: 7 Nov 92 16:01:26 GMT
Distribution: na
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5


 
	I find that the small wheel with vents closed is best.
	But, if you are into pain, I suggest small whell with
	vent open, 5000m. at a 30 strok rating.  Make sure
	you have the ambulance on the way!
From: storm@geog.utah.edu (John Storm)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Middle Fk Salmon question
Date: 5 Nov 92 07:07:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: fcom.1992Nov5.070744.21167
Distribution: usa
Organization: DIGIT Lab

In article <lfh5gdINN1ho@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:
|> Anybody know of any new high-tech toilet systems, particularly ones
|> that would fit in a canoe or IK?
|> 

Not for a canoe or IK, but be prepared for GrandCanyon trips next summer and
WestWater trips probably the summer after.

New regs. will be in effect that force your to carry
1) a no bag system that you pump out at the local R.V. septic station
   upon take out.
OR
2) a groover that has a propane incinerater, at take-out you hook it up to
   a propane tank and tourch the deposits to ash!

Not a bad system if you don't mind spending $350.00 on a groover :-)

John Storm    Internet: storm@geog.utah.edu
SLC UT        Boat-net: WW.Col.River.UT
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: donahue@athena.cs.uga.edu (Barbara Donahue)
Subject: Re: Yes, do it, PLEASE!!!
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:26:14 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.175206.61638@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> sdh4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SCOTT DYLAN HARDING) writes:
>
>
>    Maybe I have become spoiled but ever since I started using this posting
>    group, it has been devoted almost entirely to canoeing and kayaking.  Now
>    I have to look through all this crew stuff to find a blurb about paddling.
>    I know the official designation is for boats with paddles, oars, etc. but
>    another posting group for crew activities would be welcomed by me.
>    Whitewater paddlers are in a different league than flatwater
>    paddlers/rowers and a separate group seems appropriate.
>-- 
>
>
>
>
>
>-----------------
>Scott Harding

	If we are voting, here is another yes vote...I think it
	would be a good idea to make a crew bulletin board.
				Barb
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy)
Subject: Re: river rescur
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:00:32 GMT


I had a 200 cm paddle, heard the shorter the paddle the better but
I just was not comfortable with it.  I'm looking at a 204 or 206
nwxt.  wow about your corisca, gald to hear it holds up...I really
like that boat.
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears)
Subject: Re: Reverse Screw Roll?
Reply-To: scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 02:12:10 GMT

In article <41710019@hpcvra.cv.hp.com> billf@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Bill Faus) writes:
>I need some help in doing a reverse screw roll and

	Are you talking about what William Nealy refers to as a back-roll? 
	Needed when you get flipped while leaning all the way back on your deck
	(i.e. back of helmet touching stern of boat) in shallow water. Nealy
	has a pretty good description of this roll in his book (which I don't
	have with me at the moment).

>bangs into the hull.  Seems like you'd
>have to hold the right blade about a foot 
>out of the water in order to clear the 
>hull as illustrated in the book.

	I picked it up by just trying it in calm water a few times. You just
	lean all the way back, put your right hand (for onside) right next to 
	your left ear. Reach your body out to the side a bit, sweep with your
	left hand while letting your right paddle blade slide on top of the
	boat, then hip snap.

>-bill

	I don't know if the above made any sense. If this was really what you
	were wondering about and have more specifc questions, mail me...

-------
"Don't believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear."  -  Lou Reed
Sea-Bass Sears --> scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu --> DoD#516 <-- |Stanley, ID.|
'79 Yamaha XS750F -- '85 Toyota 4Runner -- Perception Corsica  |  NYC, NY.  |
From: jeremy@black.ox.ac.uk (Jeremy Martin)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: rowing
Date: 5 Nov 92 09:58:02 GMT
Organization: Oxford University Computing Service, 13 Banbury Rd, Oxford, U
Originator: jeremy@black

With regard to the question of how to stop your hands banging together when
sculling:

There are two solutions which I shall describe:

(a)
Rig your boat so that the left oar handle is an inch or two higher than
the right when the boat is level. Then row with your right hand in a lower
plane than your left. This avoids banging but has the disadvantage that your
arms are pulling at different heights.

(b)
Rig the boat level, but row with your left hand always further away from your
body than your right. The right knuckle will be tucked up under the left
wrist in the hands away position. You will need to row with your shoulders
slightly twisted throughout the stroke cycle to allow for this hand 
arrangement. In order to steer to your right you lengthen the starboard oar
stroke at the catch and pull harder whilst shortening the catch on port side.
In order to steer to your left you shorten the finish on the starboard side and
increase the pressure on the finish on stroke side.

Although method b sounds more complicated it is often preferred. Lange, the
double Olympic sculling champion, does it this way.

As far as sea rowing is concerned I'm afraid I'm rather ignorant, being a river
rower myself. I did participate in the South Coast Rowing Championships (UK), a
couple of years ago. We have a serious coastal regatta circuit in the UK. 

							Jeremy Martin
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: wills@nx14.mik.uky.edu (will s young)
Subject: Dagger's new Sea Kayaks
Keywords: Want to know more about them
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 03:13:04 GMT

Hello out there,

     I have noticed that Dagger now makes 2 new sea kayak boats that are
rather inexpensive.  Does anyone know anything about them and have and
comments about how they paddle, track, etc?  Any comments are nice and
appreciative as long as they are serious. :-)

Sincerely,

Will
Young


--
wills@mik.uky.edu:The ever willing and the ever wanting to learn musical
wsyoun00@graphsun.cc.uky.edu:instruments,flautist,and kayaker to the 	 
								extreme.
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears)
Subject: Re: river rescur
Reply-To: scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 06:07:49 GMT

In article <BxJ9v3.G2u@well.sf.ca.us> sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy) writes:
>
>I spoke with my kayak instructor today and he told me he got in a similar
>situation on the upper Gauley, yikes...said it took brute stregnth to
>push himself off one of the rocks but he managed to get off, think it
>would be worth breaking your paddle over, it was worth losing mine over,
>it went downstream when I grabbed the rescue rope, never to be seen again :(
						    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>brand new, used twice

	So what? When in real trouble, dump it! It's only money (this coming 
	from someone who has none, too!).

	Seriously, that's too bad. Makes one avoid the more trivial
	(i.e. not painful) mistakes as they can cost money.

	Getting off a broach with one rock on the bow and one on the stern is
	particularly difficult as there's nothing to grab onto, usually. If
	you are broached on just one rock in the center of the boat, and
	you're leaning downstream (or even upstream leaning on your paddle
	bottom braced) you can often manhandle your way off the rock (but don't
	be surprised when your shoulder hurts the next day and you can't
	remember why).

	A rope rescue is probably the easiest (make sure your boat has a broach
	loop for this... if it doesn't, install one). If there's no hope of
	that, sometimes you can rock back and forth and slip one end or the
	other off the rock.

	I've never flipped in this situation, but I think it would probably
	be swim time. There's a chance that a roll might wiggle you off the
	rocks, but that'd have to be a killer hip-snap.

	If your boat is old(er) or the water is strong, swim! You don't want
	the boat folding on you (your legs don't go that way!).

-------
"Don't believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear."  -  Lou Reed
Sea-Bass Sears --> scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu --> DoD#516 <-- |Stanley, ID.|
'79 Yamaha XS750F -- '85 Toyota 4Runner -- Perception Corsica  |  NYC, NY.  |
From: mikec@ux1.lbl.gov (Mike Chin)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: wave terms, Montery surfing
Date: 9 Nov 1992 19:50:51 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory
Distribution: ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: ux1.lbl.gov

What do the terms "seas, waves, swells" mean when used on
the NOAA weather broadcast? Typically, they'll say something like
"Point Pinos, seas to 8', swells to 12'... ". Ocassionally it'll
be something using the "wave" term like "Montara wave gauge reports
10' waves..."

I was at Asilomar beach on Sunday, the weather report was seas to 9'
every 10 seconds. Walls of waves were breaking 200yds offshore, and
looked at least 8', breaking chaotically. Even the board surfers
stayed on shore, and I wasn't confident enuf to venture out there alone
in my newly acquired X-1. Lover's Pt had 3-5' crumblers, but it was
filled with board surfers. Is there any good yak surfing near Montery?

mike chin
MJChin@lbl.gov
From: smay@boi.hp.com (Scott Smay)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: New newsgroup
Date: 13 Nov 92 00:00:03 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Danny Richman (gumby@spock.uucp) wrote:
:      It seems by popular demand that a new newsgroup is needed:
: rec.boats.paddle has recently been flooded with complaints of new articles
: that deal generally with crew.  It appears that rowers do not get along
: too well with kayakers or rafters.

 I would hardly say flooded with complaints, and most of us get along just
fine.

:      It would be in the best interest to start the creation of rec.boats.crew
: and begin the discussion from here on out.I hope that everyone will take part
: in this discussion which will soon lead into the deciding vote.  With 
: everyone's cooperation, we can make this transition as clean and smooth as 
: possible.
:

 There is barely enough traffic to sustain r.b.p as a whitewater group this 
time of year. Admittedly, rowing and paddling are pretty different sports.
Bring on the vote.
From: jeremy@vax.oxford.ac.uk (Jeremy Martin)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Rowing: Big Blades
Date: 11 Nov 92 15:31:32 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

I have yet to try the Dreissigacker Big Blades that were so popular in the
Olympics. Now my club has some money to spend and if it is true that they give
you a 3% speed advantage, as claimed by the company, we really ought to think
about buying some. Are they just a fad or is there a real performance gain?
I have heard that they can make you go slower into a headwind, because of the
increased blade area.
					
					Jeremy           
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: roy@zooks.eng.mcmaster.ca (Roy Underhill)
Subject: Re: Last of the Mohicans
Summary: Excellent book on birch bark canoes, etc.
Organization: Dept. of Mech. Eng., McMaster University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:34:48 GMT

In article <1dojjrINN8r8@rave.larc.nasa.gov> ghee@vision.larc.nasa.gov (Terry A. Ghee) writes:
>                               ....  What the indians
>made there canoes out of I don't know.  I know
>I traditionally think of the birch bark canoe
>as being white because that is what was told to me
>in elementary school.....
>
>Any real answers to how Native Americans or trappers made there
>canoes would be appreciated.

Hmm, close enough to a real answer can be found in several places.
The canoe museum in Port Hope can let you se some of the actual
canoes.  BUT, your library may have an excellent book on the subject,

"Bark and Skin boats of North America"   by an author whose name I
have forgotten.  This book contains first rate descriptions from
actual boats in use earlier this century.

Enjoy.






Roy 

-- 
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  
  Roy Underhill,  (416) 525-9140 x4395   roy@zooks.eng.mcmaster.ca 
  Department of Mechanical Engineering,  McMaster University, 
  Hamilton,  Ontario,  Canada            L8S 4L7
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: Rowing Machines
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:13:38 GMT

My rowing machine doesn't even have easy & hard settings.  And
it takes about 20 minutes to get a good workout.  I have an
Americ Precision rowing machine.  It does however slowly slide
across the floor until I bump into the wood stove and burn my
neck.

--Chris
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy)
Subject: hawaii
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 01:09:56 GMT


just found out I will be in Hawaii Nov 29 thru Dec 6th.  I will be speaking
Dec 1-3 but the rest of the time is mine...anyone have any info on kayaking
over there or any other activities I could get into...do they hang glide
over there?
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: sbranch@well.sf.ca.us (Kim Clancy)
Subject: Re: river rescur
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 04:01:51 GMT


I spoke with my kayak instructor today and he told me he got in a similar
situation on the upper Gauley, yikes...said it took brute stregnth to
push himself off one of the rocks but he managed to get off, think it
would be worth breaking your paddle over, it was worth losing mine over,
it went downstream when I grabbed the rescue rope, never to be seen again :(
brand new, used twice
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: jsc@sequent.com (J. Scott Carr)
Subject: Re: which canoe to buy?
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 15:57:08 GMT

In article <1dq2vqINNfd5@uwm.edu> garnham@convex.csd.uwm.edu (David C Garnham) writes:

>Two options have been recommended.  One is a Royalex canoe, e.g.,
>the Old Town Penobscot 16.  The other opinion is that stored as I
>plan nothing beats aluminum, e.g., the 17 foot Grumman (possibly
>the lightweight version).  

I paddle a Penobscot 16 and love it.  Its reasonable for one person to carry,
even for a medium portage, and it handles well.  It's not as fast as my
We-No-Nah, put has a hull shape that paddles well, both single and 
tandem.  We've also added kids to the equation, and been pleased with the
stability.

----------
J. Scott Carr                    voice: (503) 578-3495
Technical Marketing              email: jsc@sequent.com  <or>
Sequent Computer Systems                ...!uunet!sequent!jsc
From: pollard@stein.u.washington.edu (Ken Pollard)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Last of the Mohicans
Date: 10 Nov 92 19:29:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov10.192953.7958
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

Another book on the subject -- "Survival of the Bark Canoe" by John McPhee.
The book is relatively short, but goes over the construction of bark
canoes and concludes with a bark-canoe trip in the Maine woods.

Also interesting is Kenneth G. Roberts book, titled something like "Canoe".
This book covers canoes throughout the Americas, including bark canoes.

Ken Pollard, Seattle
From: David.T.Greenfield@dartmouth.edu (David T. Greenfield)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Last of the Mohicans
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:09:44 GMT
 <1992Nov9.232929.14971@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>  
 <1dojjrINN8r8@rave.larc.nasa.gov>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0b1@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1dojjrINN8r8@rave.larc.nasa.gov>
ghee@vision.larc.nasa.gov (Terry A. Ghee) writes:

> I traditionally think of the birch bark canoe
> as being white because that is what was told to me
> in elementary school.  Course I was also told that
> Washington had wooden teeth, the pilgrims landed on
> Plymoth Rock, and Nathan Hale said something really
> eloquent.
> 
> Any real answers to how Native Americans or trappers made there
> canoes would be appreciated.

Birch bark canoes were (and are) most often made from the bark of the
White Birch (also known as the Paper Birch).  The bark was used with
the white side turned in.  The side of the bark that faces in on the
tree faces out on the canoe.  It has a reddish orange color when
freshly removed from the tree and over time gradually turns to a deeper
reddish brown.

For more info check out "Survival of the Bark Canoe" by John MacPhee. 
There's also a great book whose exact name escapes me at the moment but
it's something like "Bark and Skin Boats of North America".  It was
written by Adney and Chappell and is published by The Smithsonian
Press.  I couldn't get it through the bookstore and had to order it
direct from the Smithsonian.  You might be able to find it in a good
library.  There is a copy of it here in the Dartmouth Library.

David
david.t.greenfield@dartmouth.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle