HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: friedenb@yew.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: adult B.Mitzvah (was Re: Haftorah Reading May 21, 1994)
Date: 18 Dec 92 14:54:27 GMT
Reply-To: friedenb@yew.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University

In article <FAIGIN.92Dec15145142@soldan.aero.org> faigin@aero.org
(Daniel P. Faigin) writes:

>I find Adult Bar Mitzvahs to be much more meaningful than a child's Bar
>Mitzvah. About a year or so ago, I attended the Adult Bat Mitzvah of a fellow
>netter (Hi Andrea!) and found it to be extremely meaningful -- more so than
>most 13 year old's BM's I attend. I remember about 10 years ago when a dear
>friend of mine -- in her 60s -- had her Adult Bat Mitzvah at Wilshire Blvd
>Temple. Again, extremely meaningful.


Mr. Armand Hammer, the famous billionaire never had a bar mitzvah.
As a child he never had one.  He decided to have one on his 90 (?)
birthday.  He invited the Hollywood circles and his friends and
family to a gala reception afterwards.

Unfortunately he died just days before he was to have the bar mitzvah.
The reception was already paid for, so the guests went anyways and
used the opportunity as a fundraiser for a foundation started in his name.

Armand Hammer was the man that flew his jumbo-jet to go to the USSR
to pick up Ida Nudel (famous refusenik) when she was released and brought
her to Washington.

Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
-=-Michigan State University


                   
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Messiah Jesus: re atonement thru death of a person
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:53:18 GMT

I know I shouldn't bother, but sometimes I just need a break.

ucakrvb@ucl.ac.uk (Vijay Bhuchar) writes:

> Modern copies of the Tenach
> actually delete verses 53:4 onwards.

Please list the Tanachs that delete this portion of Isaiah.
Who publishes them?

I don't really expect any answers from you.  I'm still waiting
for a list of places in the Bible where a year consists of 360 days.

> The absence of Temple proves that God no longer desires animal
> sacrifices for atonement.

Assuming that this is correct, why did it take some 40 years
for the Temple to be destroyed?  It would seem that Yeshu's
death was not, as far as G-d was concerned, the sacrifice
to end all sacrifices.  Unless, of course, G-d was so busy for
the next 40 years making funeral arrangements that he just
didn't have time for such niceties as destroying the Temple.

> Incidentally for those of you who believe in killing animals
> for atonement I say why not kill a man for atonement?

Hey, that's a good idea.  If killing an animal is good for
something, then killing a human must be even better!  Does
this kal vechomer apply elsewhere as well?  Hmm.  If eating
a steak is good, well, cannibalism must be better still!

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: horen@netcom.com (Jonathan B. Horen -- [408] 736-3923)
Subject: Lions and Lambs...
Organization: NetCom -- OnLine Communication Services
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 04:18:43 GMT

I cannot but think that, with today's announcement of the deportation of
383 Hamas and Islamic-Jihad supporters, how Gideon Ehrlich must be
nodding his head in agreement with Warren Burstein's signature block,
in which is written:

	"Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh."

It looks like both of them are finally getting *exactly* what they want!


Jonathan B. Horen       | A man should not strive to eliminate his complexes,
SysAdmin/SrTechWriter   | but to get in accord with them; they are 
Tel: (408) 736-3923     | legitimately what directs his conduct in the world.
Email: horen@netcom.com |                     -- Sigmund Freud
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Two Chassidim Jokes
Date: 20 Dec 92 09:40:14 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

dk = dkhaikin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dmitry Khaikin)
jm = mannj@acf9.nyu.edu (Jordan Mann)

jm:"That's nothing!" yelled the third chassid.  "Once, my rebbe was walking
jm:to shul on Shabbos morning, and saw a $100 bill on the ground.  But he
jm:couldn't take it, because it was Shabbos.  So he said, `Shabbos go this
jm:way!  Shabbos go that way!  The Shabbos split, and my rebbe took the 
jm:$100 bill! "

dk:Actually the joke was originally about two Orthodox Jews and a Reform
dk:one. Both are funny, but yours is not very close to reality. Well, it is
dk:just a joke anyway.

I have heard several versions of the joke, and none of them involve
Reform Jews.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          "If there really was a Jewish conspiracy to run the
 |__/__/_/        world, my rabbi would have let me in on it by now.
 |warren@         I contribute enough to the shule."
/ nysernet.org 			    Saul Goodman
From: nmuller@ems.cdc.com (Nelson Muller)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: JforJ ad in Newsweek
Date: 17 Dec 92 14:02:41 GMT
Organization: Empros Systems International, a division of CDC

In article <102335@netnews.upenn.edu>, shawn@up.hep.upenn.edu (Shawn Ruby) writes:
|> Anybody see that Jews for Jesus ad in Newsweek?  They must have more money than I
|> thought to pay for a full page spread like that.
|> 

No, but I saw the ad on Time magazine.  They must have twice as much money
then you thought.

|> Shawn Ruby

-- 
=======================================================================
Nelson Muller                    |   e-mail:        nmuller@ems.cdc.com
Empros Systems International     |   scream-mail:   (612) 553-4694
2300 Berkshire Lane North        |   FAX:           (612) 553-4018
Plymouth,MN  55441-3694          |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                     I don't speak for my employer.
                     In fact, no one speaks for my employer.
                     Not even my employer.
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Jews, Cincinatti, and the KKK
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:33:34 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.161949.3547@cs.tulane.edu> david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (David Kaufmann) writes:

# In article <1992Dec14.011630.16397@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:

# >There's a difference between the US and Canada in that in the US there
# >is supposed to be a separation of Church and State.  (I know, tell
# >that to the Supreme Court!)  Using public property for religious
# >displays, be they creches, menorahs, crosses, etc, is clearly
# >unconstitutional (and one day the Supreme Court will take its
# >Christian blinders off and realize it).

# Not just the Supreme Court, but almost every federal court has
# approved the public menorah lightings. The first amendment, contrary
# to popular myth, prohibits only the establishment of religion, not the
# expression of it.

	I've got news for you.  O'hare airport in Chicago has a christmas
tree.  They refuse to allow a menorah.  Someone (I think it was
Chabad-Lubavitch but my memory fails me here) took the airport to
court over that.  The Federal courts ruled that this was permissable
since a christmas tree was not a religious symbol but a menorah was!
I kid you not.

# One wonders: since according to the Constitution, the Supreme Court
# decides the interpretation of the Constitution, how can a Supreme
# Court decision be unconstitutional?

	I think he meant that the decision is wrong.

	[ rest deleted - dlm ]
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jbaltz@hebrew.cc.columbia.edu (Jerry B Altzman)
Subject: Re: Chinese Food
Organization: mailer daemons association
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:14:08 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.160940.10635@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld) writes:
>In article <1gadbvINNmad@morrow.stanford.edu>, aliki@nova1.stanford.edu (Alexandra Schmidt) writes:
>|> Hmm. . .well, I think an obvious starting point is that it tastes wicked good.
>|> But one other thing is that Chinese food tends to survive translation to 
>|> kashrut pretty well, since there are no dairy foods involved.  It tends to
>|> require a lot less tinkering than, say, French or Italian foods do to make
>|> them suitable for a kosher home.  
>On the other hand, I've had people show amazement or actually laugh when I 
>happened to mention the existance of Kosher Chinese restaurants.  "How can
>you make Chinese food without shellfish or pork?" is the usual question.

On the third hand, I took (subjected?) an authentic Chinese friend of mine
(who does real Chinese cooking) to a kosher Chinese restaurant in Manhattan
(it was once good but has gone downhill--I won't mention any names) and his
response was:
"There's too much meat--real Chinese food doesn't have this much meat in
it." I guess the restaurant has to know its clientele: a lot of litvaks and
hungarians to whom a meal is just a snack unless there's a large hunk of
animal flesh in front of you :-)

>-- >Elie Rosenfeld 

//jbaltz
jerry b. altzman       Relax, it's all just 1's and 0's       +1 212 854 2057 
jbaltz@columbia.edu                                      jauus@cuvmb (bitnet)
NEVIS::jbaltz (HEPNET)                    ...!rutgers!columbia!jbaltz (bang!)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Re: Why are Jews discriminated?
Organization: Summit NJ
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 01:50:02 GMT

Here are my answers, for whatever they are worth-

>Now my questions,
>a) Are Jews and other whites the same race?

Of course, the answer to this depends on how "race" is defined.  But
as an approximation, Jews of European ancestry are Caucasian.  Because
of marriage outside the religion, and rapes, European Jews have many
non-Jewish Caucasian ancestors.  This is similar to the Ethiopian Jewish
community, which racially appear Black.

>b) if they are the same race to start with, how did they grow apart?

I believe the answer to this question is obvious, if you just look
at Europe today.  In Ireland, there are the Christians fighting the
Christians (actually ethnic Irish Catholics fighting ethnic Scot
Protestants); the "ethnic cleansing" by the ethnic Serbs of other
areas of the former Yugoslavia needs no further explanation; in
Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, ethnic outsiders (primarily ethnic
Russians, but also whatever Jews Hitler didn't kill) are second-class
citizens; in Germany, where the people should know better, there are the
clashes between ethnic Germans and "foreigners".   Then of course, the
Greeks and the Turks have been at each other since the time of Helen
of Troy.

All you see is that "white" is not one homogeneous group.  As with
the Asian ancestries to non-Asians, although we may look similar to
non-whites, there are differences, and, very unfortunately, there is
too much of a "protect ones own turf" mentality among each of these
groups.

>c) Why, from the viewpoint of Jews, are Jews discriminated? 

Because we are not "ethnic" Poles in Poland; we are not "ethnic" Ukranians
in Ukraine; we are not "ethnic" Germans in Germany; we were not "ethnic"
Spaniards in Spain, etc., etc. etc.

>d) Why, from the viewpoint of other whites, are discriminated?

>I know my questions are too unspecific. But because of my lack of knowledge
>in this subject, this is where I have to start with. I would appreciate
>any response. Thank you!

Now to turn the tables around a bit.  What sort of historical ethnic
rivalries are present in the Far East (e.g., China/Japan, China/Vietnam)?
Understand that in the same way that, as a first approximation, all people
of European ancestry probably look similar (i.e., "white") to you, to
most Europeans, the Far Eastern races all look like one homogeneous group.
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: If I were Prime Minister
Date: 18 Dec 92 00:47:47 GMT
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: dfs@doe.carleton.ca's message of 17 Dec 92 21:44:09 GMT

In article <dfs.724628649@sybok> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:
>
> In <9212171412.AA03778@helix.nih.gov> norm@helix.nih.gov(Norm Friedman) writes:
>
> >Morning news is that Israel is trying to expel about 700 of
> >the murderers, but probably won't since the WORLD will probably object. 
>
> The latest I heard (via Israel Line) is that 380 Hamas supporters will
> be expelled.

"700 of the murderers"?  I wasn't aware that any of those expelled (and
they apparently already have been) even had charges filed against them.
Certainly it is difficult to consider any of them responsible for the
recent killing of the Israeli border guard, since they were all detained
by the Israelis before he was killed.

This was an act of vengeance, pure and simple, and -- as I understand
from NPR -- even admitted as such by the Israeli authorities.  None of
those expelled are claimed to be connected to the recent killings in the
occupied territories.
--
Yigal Arens
USC/ISI                                                TV made me do it!
arens@isi.edu
From: hook@unixg.ubc.ca (Chris Hook)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Here we go again
Date: 13 Dec 1992 19:38:56 GMT
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: leghorn.geog.ubc.ca
Keywords: annoying messianics and missionaries

Dima,

IMHO, (and from watching USENET alot) I would suggest that you let 
this thing go. By responding so vigorously, you are MAKING a topic out
of this, the very thing I imagine you do not want to do.

An attitude of no USENET response PLUS personal mail (without such
anger, as you might actually encourage the very behaviour you
were wishing to curtail) would seem more appropriate, and certainly
has been effective in many other news groups.

No preaching on my behalf (and sorry if it seems that way). Its just
that I look forward to deeper, more Talmudic and Torah based info
and discussions instead of endless verbal wars.

Chris Hook
hook@geog.ubc.ca


p.s.- who ever is putting together those DvarTorah posting,
thanks alot! I, at this time, don't really have any other way
of getting a weekly discourse of this type.

--
Chris Hook 
Atmospheric Sciences
University of .B.C., Vancouver, Canada
e-mail: hook@geog.ubc.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: khaikin@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin)
Subject: Re: The Future Of Israel
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 04:24:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.144257.23800@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk> ucakrvb@ucl.ac.uk (Vijay Bhuchar) writes:
>I just wanted to let you know about a prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27.
>
>Daniel writes that from the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem 
>there would be 69 multiples of 7 years before an anointed one is
>cut off (literally executed).  He wrote this in 538 BC.
>
>The decree is described in chapters 1 and 2 of the Book of Nehemiah
>and was made in the 20th year in the reign of the Persian king
>Artaxerxes.  A good encyclopaedia will confirm that this date is 445 BC.
>
>Very often the Bible consists of 360 day years.  Under this method I 
>suggest that the anointed one cut off is Jesus and hence he is the 
>Jewish Messiah.
>
>Elsewhere there is a prophecy about a crucifixion and another which
>states that the Messiah would die on a Passover - all fulfilled by Jesus.
>
>Jewish writings such as the Talmud confirm that Jesus performed the
>greatest miracles ever.
>
>It is quite clear that the Jewish rejection of Jesus led to a 19 century
>dispersion and punishment for us Jews.
>
>The purpose of the ingathering is to achieve a mass acceptance of Jesus.
>
>I have free booklets for you: Our Messiah in Prophecy & The Future Of Israel
>so please drop me a line if you want them.

Hey, Jews! I don't think this "scholar" is getting it. Well, I am
basically against kill files, but this one is worth the exception. Think
about it! 
But for you, the one who read something, somewhere about the book called
Talmud that Jews read and study, let me spell it out for you:

GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!

Now everybody who has heard of the book called Talmud is going to
interpret it the he wants it! And how rude it is to post the same crap
that people opposed under another title. You are afraid that people are
putting this title in their kill files. Well, you that there is a way to
put a person in a kill file too. I think you deserved that. Don't try
our patience! Go away! Is that spelled out enough times for you or what?
Boy, how can you even understand the Bible if you don't understand such
simple words? Ah, right, I forgot! You don't actually understand it, it
is not required, just as long as you suck somebody in your whatever you
call it!
I hope you are proud of yourself. Now, get out! In case you don't know
how, hit 'u'.

See ya,
Dima
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
   khaikin@cis.ohio-state.edu (Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio, USA)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: mk568652@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Mitchell Kotler)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: M.Haussman - get a life
Date: 19 Dec 92 21:14:01 GMT
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College


>  I was deeply enraged at the fact that NO ONE , not 
>one person, supported my views against Jews mocking themselves.
>What is wrong with you people!  

Translation: I have an opinion that noone else shares,
so I'm going to hold my breath until I turn blue
unless you *all* change your beliefs.

> What kind of custom is this?  I post a question
>about Jewish names and I get loads of Jewish jokes for replies. I ask about
>the origin of the Jewish nose myth, and I get nose jokes.   I don't understand.
>Christians aren't known for self-mockery nor are Muslims, so where did
>we get this recessive trait?

Recessive?  I'd say it's dominant.  Have you ever noticed
how many Jews go into comedy?  It's truly astounding.  Maybe
our history demands that we laugh so we do not cry.

Christians aren't known for self-mockery because they take
themselves too seriously.  It's really fun to mess with their
minds when they try to prosletyze.  


*************************************************************************
** You know M.H. ( I don't feel like typing out your dumb name), you think
you've got one over me, well you don't.  I'm not going to get into a personal
argument on the net because that would be against "netiquette" and I wouldn't
want to break the rules, would I?  Maybe you think that I just want to hear you
say "You're right", but that's not it.   Not once did you defend your opinion with
anything other than snappy remarks and a lot of arrogant B.S.    So don't go 
around using my name on this net or I'll have your account pulled too.  I've said
what is necessary to open your eyes, but you're blind.  Let God judge you when
your time comes.  If you think God  would approve of your actions, then keep doing it.
Until then, I'd drop the phone number off the signature.  It's not a smart thing to show
the world.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: mk568652@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Mitchell Kotler)
Subject: Why do I get jokes for replies? 
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:28:19 GMT
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College

Everytime I post in this newsgroup I get stupid jokes for answers.
Yes, I know, this is supposed to be a Jewish custom, but it's frustrating
when I'm trying to be serious and I get a bunch of idiotic jokes that
vaguely have anything to do with the subject.
IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO A QUESTION, MOVE ON!
	
I keep hearing Jackie Mason answering my questions . If you don't want
stereotypes about Jews , i.e. , the old man speaking with a Yiddush accent,
then cut it out already.

Mitchell Kotler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism
From: ednclark@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Jeffrey Clark)
Subject: Re: Why I became an Athiest (was: frustrations with christianity)
Organization: ITC, Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:21:51 GMT

rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:

>In article <1992Dec14.214931.5214@Princeton.EDU> jacobw@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jacob Solomon Weinstein) writes:

>   If there is God, we ought to treat our fellow man with the
>   respect that virtually every religion tells us He commands. And, if

But in certain religions some people are more important than others. For
instance there are God's chosen in Judaism and Fundamentalist Xtianity. Most
religions plainly state that women are objects to be dealt with as her man
(owner) sees fit, providing he meets the laws of the land. Some religions
believe that unbeleivers should be converted or killed in the name of the
deity (there are many precedents for this behaviour throughout history. If
you listen to the Ku Klux Klan they will tell you that the word of their
christian lord says that black people are only here to help whites get
along. Unquestioning faith in an authority (any authority) is conducive to
mindless violence, religion is unquestioning faith in an authority of some
kind (in most cases). So if He/She/It/They exist then he/she/it/they have
not been too clear on the idea that we should treat our fellow BEINGS (not
just men) with respect. Maybe we are not supposed to, maybe they like
watching us kill/torture/starve/swindle/loot/rape/assault each other, maybe
that is our purpose to be a giant Roman colloseum to the gods for their sick
(in my beleif system) amusement.


>   there is no God, then our fellow human beings are all we've got, and we
>   ought to treat them with the respect we would hope they'd show us.

Though this does not necessarily follow, I'd like to think that is the way
we should live, but unfortunately we have nations and religions which divide
us (not to mention religions which are actually afraid of having no
nations).

Jeff.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Jonathan Pollard / Mordechai Vanunu
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 06:44:58 GMT

bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:
> <92330.1413292893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> Andy writes:

> >Good, then you understand that the point is we shouldn't expect the US
> >to treat Pollard any better than Israel treats Vannunu since they were both
> >punished more for principle and as examples than for any actual damage they
> >did
> 
> There are so many difference between the two cases that comparing the
> sentences is almost pointless.  They weren't even charged with the
> same offenses.  A reasonable comparison with Pollard would be an
> Israeli caught passing secrets to the CIA.  I don't remember such a 
> case off-hand and wouldn't expect it to be made public anyway.

Around the time the Pollard affair became public, Senator David
Durenberger, then head of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence,
said that the United States changed the rules of the game by recruiting
Israeli citizens (and military officials) to supply the U.S. with
Israeli intelligence information, unavailable through official
chanels.  He was blasted for that statement only on the grounds
that he had violated American rules of confidentiality, never on
the veracity of his statements.  A trickle of reports came out
after that of some Israeli military officer who had done something
comparable to Pollard's crime, but both sides kept it hushed up.

-Don Gertler