HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill)
Subject: the importance of dogfighting
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 16:52:07 GMT


WoW!!  Firstly, i'll say that this post is only my opinion...not to say  
that most good players agree with me or anything...:-).

The dogfighting debate is a very important one.  Akira (and other players)  
think that dogfighting is quite a useless thing of the past.  Some people  
think that dogfighting IS netrek (most of the members of the former golden  
bears team).  I will say this:

The best players I have ever seen were great dogfighters.  To be a great  
player, you need to be a great 1 on 1, 2 on 1, and 1 on 2 fighter.  You  
can be a good player without knowing how to dogfight, but I don't think  
you will ever be truly great without being able to dogfight.

For example:  MUCUS PIG, ensign, val ckurai, quar-> these were/are  
considered the best CMU oggers ever.  In my opinion, they were/are also 4  
of the top 5 dogfighters at CMU.

Dogfighting accents a players abilities.  A scout bomber will be a MUCH  
better scout bomber if he can out dogfight the planet taker defending the  
armies.  A planet taker will be a MUCH better planet taker if he can  
uncloak, kill the defender, and take the planet.  An ogger will be a much  
better ogger if the planet taker can't just uncloak and kill him, then  
take the planet.

It is possible to be quite effective without dogfighting...examples:

1)  a scout bomber with a .45 ratio bombing 250 armies/hour.
2)  a planet taker scums kills off the bombers (no skill required) and  
then takes planets
3)  an ogger throws ship after ship at enemy carriers, eventually killing  
them.
4)  A SB sits near his core picking up armies, and detting anything you  
fire at it.
5)  Go to the front and scum wounded or fueless ships.

In tournament games, often times there is no reason to dogfight.  The  
reason is because of the pace of the game, and the fact that it is much  
easier to scum a kill if you want one.  Why waste the time dogfighting?

I generally have no fear of players that can't out dogfight me.  I worry  
about players that CAN outdogfight me...they are the ones that I have to  
watch.

Lastly, pure dogfighting is useless (as has allready been pointed out).   
There are times to dogfight, and times not to...learning the difference is  
something that makes a CLUE clueful, and a newbie clueless.

Rob
aka Spaceace!
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: renegade@IASTATE.EDU (Travis D Gruver)
Subject: Re: iastate 
Keywords: the real reality
Reply-To: renegade@IASTATE.EDU (Travis D Gruver)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 22:50:33 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.213249.19955@dsd.es.com> rjones@itchy.dsd.es.com writes:

M'boy, you'd have to get a ladder to stoop to sunscreamer's level...

And, for all our sanity's sake: STOP USING ALL 80 COLUMNS, AND STOP DOUBLE
SPACING! 

Is that clear?

--
                                          rjones@dsd.es.com

YOU ARE RIGHT!!  He would need a ladder to climb DOWN that far!!  (a *VERY 
LONG* ladder) and it seems he would have to climb down even further to reach
your level!!

Is that clear enough for you?! 
                                
                               renegade@iastate.edu



Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: dsaraned@eos.ncsu.edu (DORIAN SERGIO ARANEDA)
Subject: Re: HELP! what's wrong w/ my binaries
Originator: dsaraned@c00088-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: dsaraned@eos.ncsu.edu (DORIAN SERGIO ARANEDA)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:23:30 GMT


HAVE YOU TRIED MASSAGING THEM WITH ICE CUBES?
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: hoswell@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Old Nick)
Subject: Re: mojo, hector. ged, mucus pig, and definition of vetern
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:43:44 GMT

botelle@widget.seas.upenn.edu (Justin Botelle) writes:

>)Summary on vetern:  A silly discussion about who exactly are netrek  
>)veterans.  In my opinion, anyone who has played more than 200 hours of  
>)tmode netrek is a vetern.  Seasoned vetern goes up to about 400 hours.  It  

>Weatherbeaten veteran is after 800 hours (these are the people who ask me
>for money on the street :)

Say, could you spare any spare change?

Mike / Old Nick
-- 
||      -=> Old Nick <=-	 |	  <<<<=- "Dial a cliche" -=>>>>      ||
||  hoswell@tramp.Colorado.EDU	 |   					     ||
|| or hoswell@yoda.hao.ucar.EDU	 |    A cynic knows the price of everything  ||
||       Think Clearly! 	 |          and the value of nothing.        ||
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: brimroar@IASTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: TBird
Reply-To: brimroar@IASTATE.EDU
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 05:24:33 GMT



 Sunscreamer was the one making nasty comments.......pay attention


otherwise, why don't you set sail for alt.games.netrek you moron?
From: bav@hobbes.ksu.ksu.edu (Brick Verser)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: INL entry
Date: 14 Sep 92 12:13:36 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ksu.ksu.edu

danny@cs.su.oz.au (Danny) writes:
>             Our team name is undecided as yet.

No ya don't.  There's already the team with no name.  We can't have a
second team stealing our theme (though Undecided as Yet does have a 
certain ring to it).

:-)

--Brick
From: kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu (Kevin Michael Bernatz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: _Long_ response to post...
Date: 15 Sep 92 18:07:23 GMT
	<josh.716507112@mowgli>
Organization: Senior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Just one little excerpt

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 14-Sep-92 Re: _Long_ response to
post... Josh Hayes@cqs.washingto (2893)

> Kills are easy to
> come by, and you don't need to be more than a crude dogfighter
> to get them

	When I said dogfighting is useless, I meant that excessive time spent
learning dogfighting to become what's considered a "good" dogfighter is
useless.  I was giving everyone the benefit of the doubt that they were
at least maginally competent at getting a kill (from some of the many
ways mentioned).  Though Jim Ivey seems to think that when I say
dogfighting is useless I mean that you should fly around with your
shields down in straight lines all the time.... I think not.  Next time
you flame someone Jim, try to read what they are writing and not what
you think they are writing.  I wasn't argueing that dogfighting is
useless, I wasn't even posing an arguement that dogfighting is
useless... I was simply stating that many of the "good" players that I
know agree that dogfighting is a waste of time, that you can get kills
much in easier fashion and that newer players should concentrate their
time on learning more important things.. like the 5+others listed.  Yes,
I agree that you *do* need some rudimentary defensive/offensive
ability.... but to concentrate learning just that is not what I consider
the best way to become a well rounded, respected player.  Perhaps I
should have clarified this at the top of my post, if that is what caused
the confusion then I appologize.... {I don't remember what time of night
it was, but I know I've been fighting off one hell of a cold so I guess
I'll use that as my excuse :>  }.

-KB
 Rear Admiral Akira
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Bigdog
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 03:26:15 GMT


where is everybody?
i haven't seen a game on bigdog in a while.  and bezier is gone, right?
where's the action on the west coast?  i've been playing on calvin
for the past week or so.

-teddy
From: margot@disuns2.epfl.ch (Joel Margot)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: EUROPEAN MAILING LIST SET !
Date: 8 Sep 92 17:55:07 GMT
Reply-To: margot@disuns2.epfl.ch (Joel Margot)
Distribution: rec.games.netrek
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne


Ok friends!

Thanks to Andy Williamsfrom UK, we, european players, have our
own means of communcation  through a mailing list:

   netrek@cs.bham.ac.uk

Registering should be made either at:

   A.Williams@computer-science.birmingham.ac.uk    or at:
   netrek-request@computer-science.birmingham.ac.uk

Hope this will work out well and that it will allow us to have
more than 4 players in a game ;-)

Best, Joel (Ubik)
From: jhammond@acpub.duke.edu (John Kirk Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Silly dogfighting discussions...
Date: 15 Sep 92 01:08:48 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.


     Hee, hee...did I spark all these conversations about dogfighters
being worthless :).  First it was Zog that was degrading me on a game,
then Akira said supposedly the entire game I had just joined was
talking about me beforehand.  Oh well.  Dogfighting is fun.  Scumming
2 scout bomber kills and then scumming planets is
booorrrriiiinnnngggg.
     Plus, c'mon, dogfighting IS important...if it wasn't then nobody
would be able to defend planets against taker escorts, etc.
     Maybe I DID have 29 kills (and was catching up to the base :) )
on Bronco the other night (until Akira got fed up and ogged me), but
it was fun...plus it was a LPS (my favorite situation).
     Just remember to kick me when ya want to genocide...sometimes it
gets so bad that SB's tractor me on to them so I will pick up armies
:).

     -Lance
From: rjones@itchy.dsd.es.com (Ray Jones - Perp)
Subject: RSA-reserved.c not done
Organization: Design Systems Division, Evans & Sutherland, SLC, UT
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 07:50:03 GMT


Well, it turns out that GNU MP is very portable, as long as you're on a
unix system.... so Amiga, Vax, and numerous other systems would get shafted
if I used it.  So, I guess I'm stuck with writing my own math library... 

So, I'll make the ultimate sacrifice, and not play netrek this weekend (bet
you thought I was going to give up a date or something... hah!  Like I have
a life...)  and instead I'll build a math package...  Stay tuned, true
believers...  

BTW, Thanks to Ranall Jessup for helping out with this one.

Ray 
(up *much* too late after a long day...)
--
                                          rjones@dsd.es.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: rjones@sulaco.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ray Jones - Perp)
Subject: Re: sunscreamer: traitor!
Keywords: 12 angry bagels with no name
Reply-To: rjones@dsd.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 00:17:45 GMT


Don't worry, Felix... we replaced you with Helix.  

Of course, his posts aren't nearly as good....   oh well...  

Do you do contract work?

-- 
                                          rjones@dsd.es.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: carroll@cs.uiuc.edu (Alan M. Carroll)
Subject: Re: iastate
Keywords: the reality
Organization: Technophiles Inc. - Engineers with Attitude
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 01:16:07 GMT

First sign that someone is taking themselves _far_ too seriously - an
atrophied sense of humor.

In article <1992Sep11.155847@IASTATE.EDU>, exodus@IASTATE.EDU writes:
>You've debased yourself like a complete idiot once again Sunscreamer,
>thanks.  You've done more than I ever could have to make you look
>like a babbling idiot.  Since I'm not about to stoop to your level,
>that's all.  					Exodus/USS Yorktown

That's a pretty amusing comment, coming from someone who can't even
format his posts politely. [Note - I fixed this for him in my post]

-- 
Alan M. Carroll          "Weren't there yams involved, too?" - J. Ockerbloom
Epoch Development Team   
Urbana Il.               "I hate shopping with the reality-impaired" - Susan
From: ken@haas.berkeley.edu (Kent)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: TBird
Date: 11 Sep 1992 02:37:16 GMT
Organization: Haas School of Business, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: haas.berkeley.edu
Keywords: oh, the arrogance

	A T-Bird team genociding a veteran INL team?  Best joke
I've heard in years.
From: margot@disuns2.epfl.ch (Joel Margot)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: (test)  please read
Date: 8 Sep 92 01:20:55 GMT
Reply-To: margot@disuns2.epfl.ch (Joel Margot)
Distribution: Europe
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne


Sory about this, but I need to know if you can read this posting.

I put 'Europe' in the distribution prompt and wanna know if you
guys in the States for instance can read that message; so can you?


Thanks for helping around,

Joel
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig)
Subject: Re: SB stats
Organization: Indiana University Astrophysics, Bloomington, IN
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 08:52:19 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.012425.21489@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> bdhall@digirolamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Brian D Hall) writes:
>In article <BuFFnu.8xD@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig) writes:
>stuff deleted
>
>>
>>Anyway, these suggestions will in no way alter game balance or affect rank.
>>They are only informational, and should be easy to implement.  The downside is
>>that you might get "Starbase Scum", but it seems that a starbase scumming would
>>be helping his team a lot anyway.
>>
>
>Even though these stats are relatively meaningless, this last statement gets
>my goat.  SB scumming != SB helping his team.  A good base controls space, 
>provides a safe haven for his teammates,......., and GIVES AWAY KILLS.  A SB
>scum will try to enhance his offense and MAXKILLS, not create carriers on his
>own team.
>
>   DarkHorse

Ok, I hadn't thought of that aspect.  I would be possible for a SB scum to hurt
his team.  However, a good SB who gives away kills would have better planet
stats, for instance, so a scum would have to balance out what he was scumming
for.

Don't know why I left that out of the list of Good Starbase Things - in my
(quite limited) basing experience, giving away kills is a priority (often to
the detriment of the other things, unfortunately).

There will always be bozos who could twist any part of the game into
scummyness.  I just think it would be fun to have a SB skill yardstick of some
kind.

Entropy
From: rone@carina.usc.edu (Ron Echeverri)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: ARRGGH
Date: 7 Sep 1992 22:46:59 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: carina.usc.edu


This is too much... my client has coredumped on me about 15 times over the
last week, including once over at discovery while i was in the base (i don't
even want to think about what happened... a GB'd base running amok over enemy
territory...)  It happened twice over the summer, and only when i had quit
the game (ie, it coredumped when i hit the quit window).  This is REALLY
annoying.  Does anyone know what's going on?  I still have the core file
for a SPARC if you really want it.

5150
i'm sure andy mcf implemented this bug on purpose, i know it
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: renegade@IASTATE.EDU (Travis D Gruver)
Subject: test 
Reply-To: renegade@IASTATE.EDU (Travis D Gruver)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 19:55:38 GMT

this is a test
From: jreza@ocf.berkeley.edu (Jaime Garcia Reza)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: RE: attack of the killer newbies
Date: 7 Sep 1992 23:00:40 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandstorm.berkeley.edu


Your definition of veteran is entirely correct mojo. 
But the definition only has a vague sense of time..
It only says "a person of long experience in agiven
activity." Let's put it this way.. we all agree that
if you are more experienced you tend to know more aspects
of the game and in some cases try to direct the future
of the activity. Most CMU players if we are talking 
the amount of time playing xtrek should be considered 
veterans because they put tons of time into playing netrek.
Some of the people you listed mojo spent their early days
being considered "clueless" by todays standards and 
some still are. They hardly know as many aspects of the
game as some of the CMU people and I sincerely believe
that some CMU players have tons more hours of playing time
than most of those you mentioned. So in a true sense
they have had long experience in the game. And I feel
that the quality of netrek has been at a much higher level
than it has been the past year or 2 so the time invested
in the past 2 years is much more valuable than the time
of say 4-5 years ago. Say I wanted to hire some war veterans
for their expertise in xtreking to win a scrimmage. You'd think
I'd hire most of the veterans you listed mojo?? I doubt that
they could have come up with a strategy to beat the standard
CMU stategy if they never seen it before. So I would have hired
some CMU players before them because I want to win. 

Duck Dodgers

PS- besides that guy question said "netrek" and not
"xtrek" :P if you want to get even more technical
From: jimmyhua@aludra.usc.edu (Jimmy Huang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Clued games?
Date: 11 Sep 1992 18:05:38 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

books@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu (Roger Books) writes:

>In article <BuF6oM.8E9.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:

>>> Some stuff from books@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu

>>Recently, there has been alot of play at calvin.usc.  Calvin is a poor  
>>choice of servers, because it has the worst lag in the country, IMHO.   
>>Discovery is good, but people from the east probably don't get better ping  
>>times to discovery than bronco.  Also, west coasters MAY not...i'm not  
>>sure.  By the way, the uwashington servers are great as far as lag goes.   
>>Is there a vanilla one up there for public use?

>I'm at Florida State in northern Florida and I usually get better ping times 
>to discovery than CMU.  

>Why is calvin so slow?  It is much closer to me than discovery but the 
>lag is attrocious.  I often can not play there because it's so bad, at 
>the same time discovery is only slightly lagged.

Is calvin closer? It's in California. Besides, you have to go through the
middle trans something line to get to west coast. That's why there's major 
lag. I played on rwd4. Slow slow slow (because, I'm from USC (calvin)). 
Can't defend against oggs, can't ogg, can't dogfight. You get the picture. 
It's good practice though (in terms of psychic capability, and anticipation). 


>>Rob
>>aka Spaceace! aka Baconbits Boy

>Sherlock
Jimmy 

>		Roger
>		books@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu
From: hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: INL proposal:  Coaches
Date: 8 Sep 92 16:56:42 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Justin Botelle writes
> Given the increase in the number of at large teams and in the complexity
> of INL games, it seems like it would be very advantageous to have 18
> slots open, rather than 16.
> 
> The two extra slots would be for coaches, one for each team (duh).  They
> would not fly a ship, nor be able to see anything that any of their team
> mates could not see.  They would, of course, message (and quite 
frequently).

Yeah...I like the idea.  For the implementation, you could but the coaches  
in to the robot slots, and not permit them to move or fire.  Of course,  
this gets into issues like (using your coach as a free kill or a shield,  
and such).

> someone who is just having a bad night (I've seen even Rob fuck up, and 
> badly).
> 
> Justin

Well, nobody's perfect.  I was suckin torps on calvin last night.  Some  
people didn't even believe it was really me (is the REALLY you Spaceace!?)

hehe,

Rob
aka Spaceace!

TEAM SIDE SALAD!!!!
From: kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu (Kevin Michael Bernatz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: attack of the killer newbies
Date: 6 Sep 92 17:24:17 GMT
	<1992Sep5.230420.18587@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
Organization: Senior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 5-Sep-92 Re: attack of the
killer ne.. Rudy Amid@nyx.cs.du.edu (638)

>  On that note, who can you call Netrek veterans?  ie. who are the first
> bunch of people who started playing netrek?

From CMU, here are the people I would consider veterns (in no particular order)

Akira -me-Kevin Bernatz -(over 750 hours on bronco alone)
Spaceace! - Rob Hill -  (2 bronco Admirals, at least)
Mr. Wizard  - Chris Kidwell - (over 4000 DI now? maybe even 5000)
Drewski  - Drew Portraz - (Has cut down playing over past year & a half)
Krang  - Byron Sinor - (Also has cut down playing.)
Yea Boy!!!!!  -John Kim -(Failed out due to netrek one year...shame
shame 	John :> )
Eek!!!  - Nanci Miller - (Big time summer player)
Heimdale - Tom Wu - (a newer vetern)
ZZnew guy - Hugh Moore - (One of the oldest vetern's.... 1st or 2nd CMU
	admiral)
Warlock - Jon Bennet -(see ZZnew guy.. 1st or 2nd CMU admiral)
Balton  - Criag Boas - (One of the oldest veterns, easily the best base
at 	CMU)


Graduates:
Exxon Valdez  - Terence Chang - (God..need I say more :> )
Grey Elf - Andrew Markeil - (One of the best planet takers..ever)
Fury - Dave ???? - (One of the most persistant planet takers...ever)
Val Ckurai - Steve Racunas - (One of the best oggers at CMU..ever)
guest__ - Dave {Swayze (sp?)} - (One of best oggers at CMU..ever)
Quar - Don Sutton - (One of the best all round players)

-KB
 Rear Admiral "strolling down memory lane" Akira
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: rjones@sulaco.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ray Jones - Perp)
Subject: RSA based reserved.c done
Reply-To: rjones@dsd.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 00:16:13 GMT


A few miscreants at my site started using borgs, so I was forced to respond
by actually finishing the RSA-reserved.c.  I still need to test it out a
little.

The changes are really very minor, except for reserved.c.  I had to use the
Gnu MP specific functions, rather than the Berkeley MP, since the Berkeley
version's (a^x % n) is named, of all things, pow().  

Now, the big question.  How to use it?  I'm willing to be "maintainer" of
the keys.  I plan to have net access for a few years at least.  Having more
than one maintainer is probably not a really bad idea, but not really
necessary.  I don't really care either way, though...  What do you all
think?  

We managed to get UDP spread around pretty quick, this should be about the
same.  

-- 
                                          rjones@dsd.es.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: New Server
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 03:18:43 GMT

In article <18oelgINNn65@news.aero.org> srt@aerospace.aero.org writes:
[new server, 2-race galaxy with revolving planets]

hey, this sounds totally cool.
this is definitely a modification that's worth playing.

i especially like the fact that the home planets pass near occasionally.
it will change strategy quite bit.
From: takekosh@koh-sun8.usc.edu (Tetsu Takekoshi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Wabbit looking for a team
Date: 6 Sep 1992 21:00:12 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: koh-sun8.usc.edu


I play under the handle "Wascally Wabbit" and am looking for an INL
team to join.  I have a good grasp of the game but still manage to do
clueless things sometimes.  My strengths are scout bombing and planet
scumming.  I suck torps in an SB.  I may not be able to play for much
longer but would love to join a team, if only for a scrimmage or too.
(Calvin seems more clueless than usual these days :(  )  Anyway if you
need someone to join a team or help out in a scrimmage, write me at:

taiwu@usc.edu