HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tahajian@aries.East.Sun.COM (David Tahajian - Sun BOS Software)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Poker players that rathole chips
Date: 5 Jan 93 17:11:09 GMT
Reply-To: tahajian@east.sun.com (David Tahajian - Sun BOS Software)
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Billerica MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aries.east.sun.com

In article <1993Jan3.221732.18519@nevada.edu> messiah@nevada.edu (mw) writes:
>I've been playing a lot of small stakes Hold 'em lately (Xmas break
>and all that y'know :-) ) and the one thing that I keep noticing 
>repeatedly is that people will take chips (usually quarters) off the
>table and the dealer either does not see it or does not enforce the
>"table stakes" rule.

[...]
>
>I was wondering what other people may or may not have done in similar
>situations? 
>

The same thing was happening at my 6-12 limit 7 stud game at Foxwoods 
over the break.

The ante is 50 cents, and since the lowest "chip" is $1, the dealer 
breaks a roll of quarters to make change for the ante. Now the rake
is initially 25 cents per player, so after everyone antes, the 
dealer takes most of these quarters back into his rack. In theory,
the dealer should never have to break more than a few quarter rolls a day,
since all the quarters should simply be cirualated around the table
via the pots and antes. The only time quarters should leave the
table are for tips and if someone leaves the game with some quarters.

So here I was playing next to an old guy (unshaven, unlit cigar in mouth, 
old golf hat, never cracked a smile... i.e. a typical poker type) who kept 
a stack of quarters behind his chips (so the dealer could not seem them). 
He would never ante with 2 quarters, but always with a $1 chip to get 
change. Whenever he had a bunch of quarters, he would pocket a few of them. 
I was thinking of saying something, but he had $300-$400 in front of him, 
so I didn't bother.

The only problem was that the dealer kept running out of quarters, and 
needed to break a new roll every hour or so (instead of every 6 hours 
or so), and after a few hours the table ran out of quarters! Well, the 
game had to stop as we waited for more quarters rolls to be brought over! 
The dealer then asked aloud where could all the quarters possibly be going 
to and that how unusual it was that we ran out. Well, the old guy stopped 
taking them, and shortly after left the table, with a big lump in his pocket.
(hey, is that a $20 in quarters in your pocket or are you happy to see me?)

So, the moral is that perhaps you could just ask the dealer why 
he/she keeps running out of change, and where could all that silver
be going to, and so on. Perhaps the offending players will get the hint.

==========================================================================
Dave Tahajian                      | "YOU CALLED ME?!?" - What the AQ high
david.tahajian@east.sun.com        | player said to the winning AK player
Sun Microsystems, Billerica, Ma.   | at my 7-stud table in Foxwoods, CT.
==========================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Subject: I'm forming a mail alias
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: ba
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 01:42:33 GMT

Hey, gang -

I'm forming a Bay Area mail alias for us poker players.  I doubt it 
will get a lot of traffic, but we can use it for discussion of
local cardroom activities, special deals in Tahoe/Reno/LV, and
announcements of private games/tournaments.

Please let me know if you want to be on the list.  I've taken the
liberty of adding a few of you already; if this doesn't agree with
you, let me know and I'll humbly remove your name.  Again, I don't
expect this to be very high-traffic in nature.
-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
From: tahajian@aries.East.Sun.COM (David Tahajian - Sun BOS Software)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Poker players that rathole chips
Date: 6 Jan 1993 15:52:31 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Billerica MA
Reply-To: tahajian@east.sun.com (David Tahajian - Sun BOS Software)
NNTP-Posting-Host: aries.east.sun.com

In article <1id3lfINN5bn@chnews.intel.com> bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) writes:
>In article <1icffeINNe60@seven-up.East.Sun.COM> tahajian@east.sun.com (David Tahajian - Sun BOS Software) writes:
>>The ante is 50 cents, and since the lowest "chip" is $1, the dealer 
>>breaks a roll of quarters to make change for the ante. Now the rake
>>is initially 25 cents per player, so after everyone antes, the 
>>dealer takes most of these quarters back into his rack. In theory,
>
>What is the actual rake?  If it's 5-10%, then the dealer has
>to constantly track the pot with the rake, and the rake
>usually includes several quarters.

Sorry, I should have explained this fully. 
The rake for 6-12 7 stud at Foxwoods is 25 cents per player (8 players 
max per table), another dollar when the pot reaches $50, and another 
dollar when the pot reaches $100.  Max. rake is $4 per pot. Overall, 
the rake is low for this game.  There is no time payments at this
level either, while higher stakes games pay time plus the rake. 

All the "silver action" takes place during the ante, as the delaer 
usually rakes $1 chips afterwards.

>If the rake is really half the ante, then I wanna play at
>Foxwoods forever.

Yes, I've already been warned by others in this newsgroup to avoid 
that "crazy looking older fellow at the 1-5 tables choking the poor 
old lady who caught the case duce on 7th street to make three duces 
in the hole over his A-A-K-K which he had on the board." :-)

Seriously, if you're ever in the area and need details about Foxwoods
or whatever, just let me know.

>
>Personally, I dislike having an odd number of quarters,
>...  After an average session (12 hrs) I'll end up with $3-6 or so 
>in my pocket. Anyone who bitches about that is asking to step outside.
>

I sometimes pocket that "odd quarter" myself, just a habit I suppose.
But believe me, after that old lady episode, I would never think of 
challanging *you*...

==========================================================================
Dave Tahajian                      | "YOU CALLED ME?!?" - What the AQ high
david.tahajian@east.sun.com        | player said to the winning AK player
Sun Microsystems, Billerica, Ma.   | at my 7-stud table in Foxwoods, CT.
==========================================================================

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: cobarruvias@asd2.jsc.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: Twisted Home Game - Amusing
Organization: NASA/JSC
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 14:58:25 GMT

In article <1id3q8INNbfp@gaia.ucs.orst.edu> brett@oce.orst.edu (Brett
Barksdale) writes:
>Here is something that was sent to me by a friend of mine to post. It's kind
of
>an amusing (read evil) game.
>
>===============================================================================
===
>
>I know you'll get a kick out of this game I heard about over the weekend. 
>The guy said he used to play it up in Canada all the time.  You might post
>this to the net because somebody will want to call it in a home game...
>
>THE POKER GAME FROM HELL:  ZERO-54

Sounds like 2-22 or 7-27
and yes it could be hell.

>
>Played like five-card draw.  (Well, sort of...)
>
>Five cards dealt to each player.
>
>Three draws: draw as many cards as you want each time.
>
>Split pot game: try to get as close to zero or as close to 54 as possible,
>by adding up your cards.  Face cards count zero, 10s count 10, 9s count 9,
>...., 2s count 2, Aces count 1 OR 11.  Probably the best 2-way hand would be
>something like A-A-A-A-K, which could be counted as 4 OR 44.
>
>The perfect zero hand is five face cards, while the perfect 54 hand is
>A-A-A-A-10.
>
>After three draws, arrange all five cards face down and roll them one at a
time.
>
>Thus, the betting goes:
>
>  Bet
>  Draw #1
>  Bet
>  Draw #2
>  Bet
>  Draw #3
>  Bet
>  Roll first card
>  Bet
>  Roll second card
>  Bet
>  Roll third card
>  Bet
>  Roll fourth card
>  Bet
>  Roll fifth card
>  Cards speak
>
>Oh, did I forget to mention the bet size?  Pot limit.
>
>(Note: I didn't make this up!)
>
>===============================================================================
======
>-- 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                     "Just waiting for the nuts..."
>             Brett Barksdale        brett@porky.oce.orst.edu
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>



*****************************************************************
John R. Cobarruvias, Texas A&M Class of '78, 
NASA Johnson Space Center Houston Tx.
(713)483-9357

"And to think..................I hesitated" (Hellraiser II)
*****************************************************************
From: leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Recommendations on Omaha books, programs?
Date: 6 Jan 1993 21:20:09 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: diver.asd.sgi.com

In article <1992Dec30.032014.21627@netcom.com> mzimmers@netcom.com (me again)) writes:
>
>I've become way intrigued with hi-lo Omaha, 8 or better.  (It's my
>decided opinion that this will eventually overtake hold 'em in
>popularity and may someday be the format for the World Series.)
>
I disagree, but I've been wrong before.  My argument is the following: when
Omaha-8 was first introduced to Garden City, I expected it to quickly 
eat up the hold'em action.  This has not happened.  Attempts at $10-20 and
$6-12 Omaha-8 were unsuccessful.  They have one 2-4 and one 3-6 game going 
strong, but this contrasts with 2-3 $2-4 hold'em, 3-5 $3-6 hold'em,
1-2 $6-12 hold'em (etc) games.  I suspect that many serious players find
Omaha-8 too unpredictable and wildly varying.  People like Malmuth
and Sklansky have pointed out that it has a much higher standard deviation
(hell, sit down in an Omaha-8 game for an hour and see how many times the
lead changes from the turn to the river).  I think this is inimical to the
interest of the serious players.

>Can anyone recommend books and/or software programs?  Thanks.

I have the "Poker with Payne" book, and it's "OK".  I just bought the 
new Ray Zee book from Chuck Weinstock.  I am a little disappointed in it - 
it is nowhere near as fact filled as (e.g.) Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players.
However, I intend to study it religiously - I will agree with Mike that 
there is a growing popularity in Omaha-8.  If Ray Zee didn't give me as
much as I wanted, what he *does* give is likely very accurate and useful.

Regards, Lee
From: erwin@bend.ucsd.edu (Sean Erwin)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Frontier Strike Update
Date: 7 Jan 1993 18:26:30 GMT
Organization: Linguistics Department, UCSD
NNTP-Posting-Host: bend.ucsd.edu

In article <1ihr4pINNc52@fido.asd.sgi.com> leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones) writes:
>In article <1igeofINNpuh@network.ucsd.edu> erwin@bend.ucsd.edu (Sean Erwin) writes:
>>In article <1ifl92INNrgt@fido.asd.sgi.com> leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones) writes:
>
>Well, in general, it seems that the nature of the casino business
>is that the casino owners have more in common with each
>other than with the "labor" of their own operation (and the same can be 
>said for the workers at the various casinos).  If workers are successful
>in striking the Frontier now, they'll be hitting C^2 next.  I would think
>that would be of far more concern to the management of C^2 than the 
>success or failure of one more (bit-player) casino on the Strip.
>
The strikers struck because they weren't receiving pay/benefits equal to what
other casinos offered their workers.  These culinary workers just want what
other culinary workers at other casinos (such as the C^2) get.  Most culinary
workers at other casinos are members of the same union as the strikers, and are
in solidarity with them, but will not strike, since they already have what the
strikers want.  The other casino owners as well recognize this inequality and
don't want trouble with the union, and also openly support the strikers.  Once
this strike is over, it will not move up and down the strip, demanding this
from Casino X and that from Casino Y.  As I stated before, legislation is being
drafted which will force the owner of the Frontier to offer its workers equitable pay and benefits.

Sorry if I wasn't clear,
--Sean

>Regards, Lee
From: leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Omaha Question
Date: 6 Jan 93 21:54:17 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: diver.asd.sgi.com

In article <1993Jan4.233551.1027@netcom.com> mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:
>
>The different odds of getting a particular flop can be easily calculated.
>Of more concern to me at this point, however, is simply knowing whether
>the book is indeed correct or not.  I don't want to study garbage.

I admit to a certain prejudicial suspicioun of any book as chock full of 
spelling and grammatical errors as that one.  It also worries me he did all
of his calculations in the corner of a McDonald's :-).

That said, I think the starting hand page is reasonable.  I haven't studied
the rest of the book closely enough to decide about it.  I'm spending a 
lot more time with Ray Zee's book (there Chuck - a plug).

Regards, Lee
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jack@freezer.cns.udel.edu (Jack Seltzer)
Subject: Re: Casino Edge for BJ is 7.8% According t
Reply-To: jack@freezer.cns.udel.edu
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 18:39:59 GMT

In article 29529@tc.cornell.edu, beers@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Jim Beers) writes:

>
>Do you mean to tell me that there are people out there who will pay somebody
>to coach them in playing blackjack? >


There is one school of bj in Phila. run by Dough Grant.  There is 
the school in NJ run by Jerry Patterson.  These schools charged about 
$400.00 for the course some 5 or more years ago, so I would imagine
that the "tuition" is more now.  As part of the tuition the student is
entitled to have the instructor accompany him(her) to the casino to 
monitor his(her) play.  Actually, there is really nothing wrong with this any
more than any other school which teaches material which is available in 
books.  The problem is that there are people out there who claim to 
be experts and are anything but.  Years ago, there was a school (?somebodys?
School of Winning Blackjack) that ran a radio ad claiming that with 
their method you would have a 98% chance of winning.  What they were 
quoting was a gambler's ruin number based on a specific bankrool and 
level of play.  They were using info out of context which was totally
misleading.  They withdrew their ad after some complaints.
From: erwin@bend.ucsd.edu (Sean Erwin)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Frontier Strike Update
Date: 7 Jan 1993 05:23:27 GMT
Organization: Linguistics Department, UCSD
NNTP-Posting-Host: bend.ucsd.edu

In article <1ifl92INNrgt@fido.asd.sgi.com> leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones) writes:
>In article <1idsi0INN68t@network.ucsd.edu> erwin@bend.ucsd.edu (Sean Erwin) writes:
>I don't understand all the details, so it leaves me confused.  Why would the
>owner of C^2 send the Frontier strikers food?

The owners of many other casinos are in sympathy with the strikers.  One
possible reason why other casinos may want to help the strikers would be to
hurt the Frontier, the competition.  Come on Lee, this couldn't be too hard
to figure out, could it?
>
>Regards, Lee

---Sean
From: price@chuckles.Eng.Sun.COM (Chuck Price)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Frontier Strike Update
Date: 8 Jan 93 01:37:50 GMT
Reply-To: price@chuckles.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: chuckles

Over the holidays I was in LV, and asked a cabbie about the strike. He
said that "everybody in Vegas" hates the owner of the Frontier for her
"take over and destroy" attitude about the casinos. He said that when
she bought the Frontier it came as a package deal with another casino
that apparently was a local favorite (the Stardust? Starlight?
something, I forget...). But she immediately shut that casino down and
converted into a parking lot. Apparently lots of people never forgave
her.

He also said that the owner of C^2 does not like her, and is hoping that
his support of the strikers will eventually grind her out of business.

I don't know how accurate any of this is, but it made our short cab ride
more interesting...

-chuck
---
=====================================================================
Chuck Price                -------------       
Sun Microsystems            _\__(_)__/_         
price@sun.com                  ./ \.            
=====================================================================
From: brett@oce.orst.edu (Brett Barksdale)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Twisted Home Game - Amusing
Date: 5 Jan 1993 22:58:16 GMT
Organization: Oregon State University, College of Oceanography
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: porky.oce.orst.edu

Here is something that was sent to me by a friend of mine to post. It's kind of
an amusing (read evil) game.

==================================================================================

I know you'll get a kick out of this game I heard about over the weekend. 
The guy said he used to play it up in Canada all the time.  You might post
this to the net because somebody will want to call it in a home game...

THE POKER GAME FROM HELL:  ZERO-54

Played like five-card draw.  (Well, sort of...)

Five cards dealt to each player.

Three draws: draw as many cards as you want each time.

Split pot game: try to get as close to zero or as close to 54 as possible,
by adding up your cards.  Face cards count zero, 10s count 10, 9s count 9,
..., 2s count 2, Aces count 1 OR 11.  Probably the best 2-way hand would be
something like A-A-A-A-K, which could be counted as 4 OR 44.

The perfect zero hand is five face cards, while the perfect 54 hand is
A-A-A-A-10.

After three draws, arrange all five cards face down and roll them one at a time.

Thus, the betting goes:

  Bet
  Draw #1
  Bet
  Draw #2
  Bet
  Draw #3
  Bet
  Roll first card
  Bet
  Roll second card
  Bet
  Roll third card
  Bet
  Roll fourth card
  Bet
  Roll fifth card
  Cards speak

Oh, did I forget to mention the bet size?  Pot limit.

(Note: I didn't make this up!)

=====================================================================================
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                     "Just waiting for the nuts..."
             Brett Barksdale        brett@porky.oce.orst.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: gjnelson@ee.umn.edu (Grad student Greg Nelson)
Subject: Indian casinos along I-35 ?
Organization: Electrical Engineering, U of MN, Mpls.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:10:59 GMT

I'm driving from Minneapolis to San Antonio along I-35 this 
weekend and would like to know if there are any casinos
located within a reasonable distance of this route. 
Thanks for any help!

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Subject: Re: Omaha Question
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 23:35:51 GMT

In article <1iabf5INNt5v@fido.asd.sgi.com> hashimoto@sgi.com (Roy Hashimoto) writes:

>In article <1993Jan4.201935.6560@netcom.com> mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:

>>In particular, [John Payne] claims that a pocket of 9TJQ can flop 15
>>straight draws
>>(defined as four to a straight with 8 or more "outs" to make the straight
>>on the turn or in the river).  I'm almost certain there are 16:
>>
>>78X	89X	8TX	8JX
>>8QX	9TX	9JX	9QX
>>9KX	TJX	TQX	TKX
>>JQX	JKX	QKX	KAX

>I don't see how knowing how many different draws there are is very useful
>when these draws are not equally likely to occur.  I think you can argue
>that the number should be even by symmetry, though, since you aren't losing
>draws from running into the closed end.

The different odds of getting a particular flop can be easily calculated.
Of more concern to me at this point, however, is simply knowing whether
the book is indeed correct or not.  I don't want to study garbage.

>It seems to me that there are two more straight draws with eight outs -
>AJ7 and AT7.

True enough.  I didn't consider straight draws that used all of the flop.
-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
From: leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Poker Book Order
Date: 7 Jan 93 22:04:09 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: diver.asd.sgi.com

In article <1993Jan7.131255.25885@sei.cmu.edu> weinstoc@sei.cmu.edu (Chuck Weinstock) writes:
>
>I've had some more requests for ordering poker books, so I thought I'd open up
>a new order.  
>The books offered are those by Sklansky, Malmuth and/or Zee.
>
>
>Chuck Weinstock				weinstock@sei.cmu.edu
>Software Engineering Institute		(412) 268-7719
>Carnegie Mellon University		(412) 268-5758 (Fax)
>Pittsburgh, PA 15213

Chuck - could you post a list of the books you have available?  No wait,
(as Mike Caro would say), how about you publish that list *and* a short 
review of each.  For instance, should I buy Sklansky's "Poker Theory" book?
Malmuth's "Poker Essays"?

While we're here:

I was mildly disappointed with the Ray Zee 8-or-better book.  I would still
buy it again, on the theory that 

1. It's unlikely that anything in there is WRONG.  It's not his style.

2. If there's one reasonably important good thing in there, it will easily
   pay for the book.

But, it was rambling, there was too much filler.  I was hoping for a good set
of starting hands in Omaha-8, and didn't get that (although you might be
able to construct such a list from the various points he makes).  Things
like "You may want to call a bet" and "You have to play good poker" are 
probably sound advice, but smack of "motherhood" (see footnote 1).  I think
I wish Sklansky or Malmuth had written the book instead.  Which is not to
say that I think I would have a snowball's chance in hell of beating Ray Zee
at *any* form of poker :-)

Regards, Lee

Footnote 1: "Motherhood": A term often heard in the halls of IBM to describe
            statements that nobody can disagree with, but contribute nothing
            to the discussion.  Shorterned form of "Motherhood, baseball,
            and apple pie".  Example: "It's important for us to ship
            quality software to our customers".
From: TRADER@cup.portal.com (Paul Vincent McGinnis)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: what happened in Rhyolite??
Date: Thu,  7 Jan 93 19:06:47 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

I heard an interesting "public affairs" program with 2 Native American
leaders who were sort of gloating over the failure to turn Rhyolite,
Nevada into the next Las Vegas. Apparently, some investors lost their
shirts. This is the first time I've heard of a plan to "develop" Rhyolite.

I remember Rhyolite as being out in the middle of absolute nowhere in Nye
County on US. 95 - basically, a ghost town. (yes, as a matter of fact I
do get to obscure places in the desert - I recently went on a pilgrimage
to Hell, California because I saw it on a map of the Mojave desert! I can
now truly answer people who say "Go to Hell!!" by saying I've been there...)

Paul McGinnis / TRADER@cup.portal.com