From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Caucasians don't understand
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:14:52 GMT

In article <SHAW.92Aug14222100@whopper.lcs.mit.edu> shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:

>I think this has got to be Clueless White Boy Statement #8 (#7 being the
>"ORIENTAL vs. Asian" question, and #1-6 being Jim Pak's original list in
>reply to some of the usual "Quit whining you loser Orientals, it's none of
>your business if we take your women").

Hmm. You're right Andy. We should all just leave the group to enlightend
souls such as yourself. BTW, I thought I was in your kill file. 
 
>Even in foreign countries, white foreigners are often treated very well,

And sometimes, they are shot at, kidnapped, etc. How many Asians were taken
hostage in the Mid East? 

>because they are automatically assumed to have some sort of power, whether
>it is economic, diplomatic, military, or just some magical power emanating
>from their skin that causes them to be some sort of super-human.  Mike
>Fester whines about being white in Japan: although there are quite a few

"Whines"? When did I say anything other than discrimination is legal there, 
and that I experienced it there? Ah, but you didn't read the post, did you?

>annoying things that whites will experience in Japan that they won't
>experience in the US, I would _definitely_ not say that being white in
>Japan is even _close_ to being the same as being Asian in the US.

As you cannot make the comparison, you should not say anything at all.

>If that were so, half the TV commercials in the US would have beautiful
>Asian people enjoying their incredibly luxurious lifestyles, and all the
>white people would be dying to be Asian.  If that were so, everything

I assure you, "half" is far too large an estimate. Perhaps you should visit 
the place.

>trendy in the US would be represented by hip, cool, Asian people.  If that
>were so, everyone in the US would be learning Japanese, Chinese, and Korean
>for 9 years of their life, practicing it on helpless Asians they meet on
>the train in an effort to look "cool" and "international".  If that were
>true, all the fashion in the US would be modeled by Asian fashion models,
>and white fashion models would earn 1/4 to 1/5 the amount of an Asian
>model.  Everyone would be watching Asian soap operas, Asian movies, Asian
>"I Love Genie", "Brady Brunch", "Rin Tin Tin", and "Beverly Hills 90201".

Several years ago, the Japanese passed laws (excuse me. "administrative
guidelines") limiting the amount of "foriegn origin" programming. 

BTW, how do you reconcile Kurosawa's influence on American cinema with your
rather specious diatribe? He HAS had a rather profound impact. Looks like 
quality will make itself available to the world.

Also, it may interest you to know that Kurosawa cannot get his pictures
financed in Japan any longer; they are financed by American companies.

>More than 80% of white people in Japan can't speak a decent sentence of

As more than 80% of "white people in Japan" at any one time are tourists, this
is hardly surprising.

>Japanese.  Whites in Japan often act like boors, and expect everyone to

Copied from the Dwight Joe archives.

>speak English for them and wait on them hand and foot.  The biggest "white
>ghetto" in Japan is Roppongi in Tokyo, which is one of the most expensive

No, you are referring to Hirou, not Roppongi. Roppongi is not a residential
area. As for expensive, yes, but Ginza, Harajuku, Aoyama, Omotesandou, 
Akasaka, and sections of Shinjuku are at least as expensive.

>areas in Japan, and probably the hippest as well.  If that were so, Asian

Uh, it might be pointed out that that is probably due to the preponderance of
foreign (not just "white") embassies there. Most of the African embassies
are located there as well.

>men would be coming into the States and fucking their way through dozens of
>"white cabs".  America would be occupied by a foreign military from Asia.

Well, a foreign power DID make an attempt a while ago. Met with somewhat less
than success. And "occupied"? Hardly. The Japanese governtment wants the 
troops there, and is in fact paying the majority of the costs of keeping them
there.

>White people would ask random Asian people to stop and have their picture
>taken with them to look cool, and white people would stop random Asians
>with babies to ask if they could take pictures of the babies.  White
>schoolboys would dare each other to rush up and just touch Asian goddesses
>who they see walking down the street, or maybe if they really have balls,
>to dance around them acting like morons.

>All of the US would have spent the last 45 years in a desperate attempt to
>become more "Easternized".  Every single traffic sign in the US would be
>written in both an Asian foreign language and English.

???? This is not true in Japan.

>And of course, all the electronics and automobiles in Japan would be
>American, but that's a story for another day and place ...

??? Not even most of the autos in this country are Japanese.

>It's true that white people living in Japan experience _some_ of the
>problems that Asian-Americans in America do: for instance, the assumption
>that they can't speak any Japanese.  However, considering how _AWFUL_ the
>Japanese is of 99% of whites (and I am not exaggerating about 99%) I am

If you are not exaggerating, then you are lying, to put it bluntly. 

>only sympathetic to the cases where Japanese people stubbornly refuse to

They don't stubbornly refuse; the issue is rather more complex than that. And 
has been discussed in soc.culture.japan and IS being discussed in 
sci.lang.japan.

>speak Japanese and continue to speak (so-called) English even after some
>proficiency in Japanese has been demonstrated by the white person.

Actually, I've never complained about that. If someone tried to speak English 
with me, I answered them in German. So, if they wanted to continue the 
conversation, it had to be in Japanese. No problem.

>Another annoying area is the incredible objectification of whites as
>beautiful, rich, smart, powerful and everything desirable.  Obviously,
>that's not true, and it's annoying to be sterotyped in that way and treated
>like an object.  But that's not exactly the same as the objectification
>Asian-Americans receive in the US.

Hmmm. You sound rather like an apologist for those people who say "I like 
BLACK people. They are such good dancers and singers." Or for those who might
say "Asians are SOOOO smart. They do so well in school" Ah, but if someone 
says that about YOU, then it's bad, right?

>White people living in foreign countries is not exactly the same as
>Asian-Americans living at home.  I agree that they experience some of the
>same kinds of problems, but the overwhelming power that whites hold in the
>world give them a natural advantage anywhere in the world, even in
>countries where they are a small minority.

Tell that to my friends who grew up in the Mid-East and Africa.

Mike
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