From: swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Scott Wood - EVENSONG)
Subject: Re: Animal Cult Backtracks on Dog Show Attacks
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 01:22:19 GMT

unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks) writes:

`Scott Wood writes:
`The costume jewelry sits in a case and is unsold if all people want is real
`jewelry.  The costume will be continually produced and sit on a shelf unsold.
`"Garbage" dogs will, unfortunately, continue to be produced and will DIE.
`If you equate a life to an inanimate object.......

What is the difference between a rock and a plant and a dog and a human?
We are all made up of the same essential elements and compounds.  Some
people would not have you eat broccoli because scientific tests have
shown that the plant has a pain stimuli reaction ability.  (at that rate
George Bush is ahead of his time!)

You can't prove an animal to be even close to equivalent with man, if the
only way that a chimp can learn to talk is by being conditioned by man.
There is no way to prove an animal is equivalent, because they aren't.
They can't sit down and discuss the concept with you. There are obvious,
distinct and very profound differences between man and animal.  Anyone
who can't see this is blind.
So you try to blow the animals' abilities way out of proportion to make
them seem more human (which they aren't) and to try and make them seem
equivalent to or better than man (which they are not).

Here's an interesting question for you.  If, in fact, an animal has rights,
does an animal want rights?  (let me answer for you - animals don't want -
they desire - the become biologically compelled for the things they need
and then act on instinct to fulfill those urges)

`>`For every show dog bought, at least one "common" dog is not adopted
`>`to become functioning members of that home.......
`>
`>So what?  Maybe the buyer wanted or preffered a show dog.  A pure dog!

`So what?  Animals are dying needlessly in the name of vanity......

Vanity?  Who said vanity?  Stop accusing me of things I didn't say.  To me,
its more like common sense.

`>"Sure [some] people are letting animals loose to breed and end up in pounds,
`>but these [AR extremist] people applaud loosed animals."

`First, there is no proof that any AR groups are releasing animals.  Second,
`if there are, they are not doing it to in order to let them "breed and end
`up in pounds".

I am not talking about just dogs.  There is proof AR groups (ALF for one)
have released animals.  It doesn't matter whether I was talking about
dogs and pounds in the first part of the sentence, the second part still
holds true.

`>When I hunt, I prefer to succeed.
`>A good dog is part of that.  

`Why won't a pound animal work?  Many of the film/TV animals are pound animals
`and appear to do quite well.

How do I know for sure it will?

`>A $100+ dollar dog can be just as caring as a $$-less mutt (sort of the
`>opposite of your arguement eh?) and I can be sure that it will also
`>serve other functions to help me with my sport or my dinner table.

`Can you really be sure?

Yes.  And I would be willing to say moreso.  Because I have the opportunity
with purebred dogs to meet the parents and check their temperment.

`>You now get into the area of capabilities.  Watch what you say.  I would
`>personally not become SO with someone if they did not help me along in
`>some way.  

`How about companionship and love?  Do you exclude these?

But I can love someone capable just as well as one that is not self-dependant.

`But do you not get any mental stimulation from interacting with an animal?

Only by observing.

`But if you have a purebred dog, how can you be sure?  A friend of my dad's 
`breeds and trains retrievers.  Sometimes he gets dogs that just don't
`work out.  Just because it has a pedigree doesn't mean it will do well.  How
`many millions have been spent on breeding racehorses with great bloodlines
`and have them turn out to be duds?

True, but a long family blood line is a hell of a lot better proof that you
get at the pound.  When I buy a car, I check with Consumer Reports, that
doesn't mean I won't get a lemon.  But my chances against getting a bad one
are greatly improved.

`Doesn't all the talk of pure bloodlines and superior breeding sound a little
`too familiar and scary?

To human life yeah!  Human life is more valuable than animal life!

`>and destroying property of legitimate citizens making a living or enjoying

`I almost entirely agree with your statement above.  Let's change a few words 
`and see what we get:

`property of legitimate living creatures making a living or enjoying their lives.
                               ^^^^^^^^^
I prefer my version, as creatures don't obey laws, citizens do....
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