From: mhen@nodisk.webo.dg.com (Mat Hen)
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: Re: The Art of Throwing -- The Theory Behind the Throw
Date: 9 Oct 92 22:15:06 GMT
Organization: NSDD, Data General Corp.

>>>>> On Wed, 7 Oct 1992 19:07:59 GMT, el27166@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (This Space for Rent) said:

> In order to throw well, we must have some sort of understanding
> about the throw.  We must understand fundamentals about range,
> priority, etc.  I don't know the programming of SFII, but I've
> developed a theory based on my experience with the game.  I
> will list some aspects of the theory and how they apply.

> 1) There are two ranges for each character's throw.  A normal range
> and an extended range.  Sometimes it seems that Ken, Ryu, or Chun Li
> can throw for a very long range.  They're using the extended range.

> The extended range throw needs to be "charged up".  By charging up,
> I mean you can't hit any buttons for a certain amount of time.  If
> you hit the button, your extended range is reduced down to your
> normal throw range, which is very short (no farther than two blocked
> Ryu jabs away).  Some characters charge up to this extended throw
> range faster than others --- usually faster characters like Chun Li
> or Vega.  Other characters have very short extended throw ranges
> (like Sagat).

> To try an extended range throw, try this:
> Play Ryu and have your opponent play Ryu.  Jump in and hit the other
> Ryu around the neck area with a roundhouse.  The opponent should be
> tapping strong and holding the joystick in back defense while you are
> walking in for the throw.  After hitting him with the roundhouse,
> walk in a few steps and hit strong.  If done correctly, you should
> throw the other Ryu even though he was "countering" your throw.
> If you got thrown before you hit the button, then you hit the button
> too late.  If you got thrown after you hit the button, you hit the
> button too soon.  The timing for this is the same timing for your
> opponent Ryu to recover from the block and get a roundhouse out.

> So, in summary, jump in, hit low, walk in a few steps until you feel
> that the other Ryu is about to get out of the stun of the block, then
> hit strong.  I'm sure many of you have done this tick before.  But
> now that you understand a bit more of how and why it worked, you can
> concentrate on counter-throwing.

> To counter the above tick:
> What you need to do is charge up to YOUR extended range throw.  So
> if you're playing the Ryu which is getting ticked, here's what you
> need to do:

> Stay in crouch.  Standing up only invites footsweeps.  There's no
> reason to stand up since you can't counter-throw him until he gets
> into range anyway.

> Don't hit any buttons.  If you tried to do a roundhouse or dragon
> punch or something, then you've committed yourself, and you won't
> get in your counter-throw.  True, the dragon punch can come out
> before the opponent can throw you, but the opponent can fake, let
> you DP, and throw or combo you as you land.  

> Learn the extent of your extended range.  As soon as your opponent
> enters this range, pull the joystick to back defense and tap strong
> twice quickly.  Tapping it twice just makes certain that you hit it
> when you want, in case buttons are sticky.  If you tapped it twice
> and stood up and did nothing, you did it too early.  If you got
> thrown, then you did it too late.  If your opponent gets thrown,
> then you've just counter-thrown!

> This method also works well against ticks such as Guile's throw
> after a sonic boom hit, or other ticks which hit you once and
> then throw you from an extended range.

> Countering jab, jab, throw ticks:
> When you're opponent is near and doing jab, jab, throw techniques,
> keep a few simple ideas in mind.

> The opponent is at normal throw range since he ruined his charge
> with his jabs.  If he does more than two jabs, he's going to have
> to walk forward if he wants to throw you.  It's generally safe
> to block all the rest if he does three jabs or more.

> YOU'RE also at normal throw range, so you don't need to charge up
> for the extended throw.  This means you can tap the buttons furiously,
> if you like, and still get the throw off.  If you absolutely do
> NOT want to be thrown, then you can block the first jab, then
> stand up and try and counter-throw right away.  Of course, this
> doesn't look cool when you get hit by four more jabs.

> Listen to his jabs.  If he's going to throw, it's going to be after
> the first or second jab.  Sometimes, he'll start out too far away
> to do it after the second jab.  That means he'll have to walk in and
> throw.  You can roundhouse sweep him if he does that.  But if they
> start right next to you, and you don't know if they're going to throw
> after the first, second, or not at all, listen to his tapping.  As
> soon as he stops tapping that jab button, something different is
> happening.  Whether it's a throw, dragon punch, or footsweep, pull
> the joystick into back defense and start tapping your strong (or
> whatever throw) button.  You're very likely to counter-throw
> before they can get their throw, DP, or footsweep out because their
> jab sweep was still retracting as you're hitting your button.  If
> he never stops tapping the button, just sit in crouch and block.
> Even if he kept tapping, but was tapping the STRONG button, he won't
> throw because he needs to not tap any buttons for a short period before
> he can throw.

> Well, that's all that there really is to know.  If there are further
> questions, post them.

> End of Lesson 2 -- The Theory Behind the Throw

> -- 
> Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek)                      el27166@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
> "Nobody told me there'd be .sigs like these."
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-&{&gp% +/)@ooooooo
> NO CARRIER




I have some questions which have been in my mind for a long time:

All characters have at least 2 throws(e.g. Ken's strong and fierce
throw).  What are the differences between the different buttons(in
terms of speed and range)?

I think Ken's strong throw is faster than the fierce throw.  Is that
right?  Does the strong throw has a shorter range?

Could you rank the throw priorities of all the characters?  Assume
that both of the characters trying to throw each other are in the
other character's throw range.  And we're talking about the
strong button only.

Thanks.
--
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Mat Hen