HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: robs@hardy.u.washington.edu (Robert Suh)
Subject: Re: Best Opening Moves
Keywords: Best Opening Moves
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:06:02 GMT

In article <BzA3JA.Hqn@news.cso.uiuc.edu> skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian) writes:
>	
>
>	Although I know my own personal choices, I was wondering what the
>	favorite opening moves vs. any given character are in general.  I
>	don't remember hearing any threads about this in recent memory and
>	in some matches it is important enough to decide the momentum and
>	in some cases, the whole round.  More specifically, what is a good
>	opening move against Bison?  Or Ryu/Ken vs. Guile?  Just interested
>	in opinions in general here, but please try to support them by saying
>	"DP at the very beginning, because if so and so does this then you
>	can just do that to counter..." or give some sort of reasoning.
>	Any thoughts?
>
>		Seth Killian
>
>

For a Ryu/KEN vs. Guile Fight, the 'best' move you can do against a Ryu
is to hit Forward.(Considering you're Guile).  Sonic Booming at the start
of the round is risky, because you'll get either caught with Ryu's hurricane,
and you lose the charge. 

When you hit Forward with Guile, you neutralize Ryu's hurricane (you can slice it to ribbons), you neutralize it so Ryu can't jump it (slice again.).
Though I guess a Ryu can DP the forward, but I haven't seen it yet.

At worst, you'll get hit with a Fireball, while trading damage.(In Guile's 
favor.)  And usually, you won't trade.

If you're Ryu, I find the best thing to do is to jump backwards, and start
the fireball rally, mixed with an occasional uppercuts of legs, etc..

Against Zangrief, JUMP Back! :)

Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: tzbw5@isuvax.iastate.edu
Subject: To all U of I CE players!
Reply-To: tzbw5@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:33:57 GMT

I go to Iowa State U. , but i live in Chicago. It seems to me that you guys
always have the most to say about everything. This leads me to belive that
you guys are reall heavy on the competition aspect. Everytime I come home
I do fairly well against everyone i'd say i win about 7/10  times in
an arcade that everyone goes to. (Using Sagat)  I would really like to 
play some of you guys if you happen to live in the chicago area. I would
like to see (first hand) how good you guys really are. Cuz if you guys
are as good as you seem this may be an oppurtunity to improve. That 
opportunity is something i rarely get here becuz no one ever wants to play 
me. My best characters are Guile, Sagat, Ken/Ryu, Balrog, E.honda respectivelyI am usually playing Sagat. Blanka gives me hell. But lately i have been
winning over 2/3 of the time against the best Blankas around here.
At any rate if any of you guys wants to hook up for a few rounds of sf2 here
is my home address and phone.
8210 S. Hermitage
994-8664 (this is for you guys in the chicago area)
Thats in the city for you suburban people. :)
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: cw21219@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Crying Freeman)
Subject: Re: SF2 regulars at UIUC.
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:35:36 GMT

sh30443@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Shiva the Destoyer) writes:

>WAAAAAAAHHHHH.  I'm not even mentioned, and I hold my own against the masters.
>WAAAAAAAHHHHH!

>Jen "Executive SF2"

>P.S.  You guys forgot to mention Joe Goudrou, sagat/guile/dhalsim player.
>      He whoops butt too.

Yeah, I was thinking about putting you Guile studboys in my post, but 
for my first post I was covering just the heavy posters on the net. :)

Actually it's hard to say who the best Guile player here. I think Joe, you,
and I are about the same, just with different styles and strengths...

-- 
 Kenneth C. Wang	| University Of Illinois Champaign-Urbana	
 			| Internet: c-wang@uiuc.edu
From: epasls@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: Official 'Turbo' news & G.P. scoops egm.
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:23:09 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Howdy all,

Today at hastings I took a look at the most recent issue of gamepro
magazine.  It has a really in depth review of the official turbo
sf2ce-hyper fighters game.  I'm glad that they scooped EGM. 
anyway, I guess it(the mag) must have come out today since noone
has mentioned it here yet.

as far as the new moves,
well, they have pictures of everything as well as descriptions.
reallly in deapth, I'm impressed.
chunlis fireball is just a fierce ryu fireball.
dhalsim is the only one with teleportation, guess they decided that
because of the dhalsim invisibility on the original.
balrog can move and attack while charging his mega punch, and by
holding down the buttons longer it will be stronger, I think this 
is already on our pirate version but you cant move while doing it.
bisons pedo is much less cheassier when blocked, only blocks 2-4 instead
of 6-7.  there are probably 6-7 more important changes as well as many
uninteresting changes.

anyway, the release date is still 12-20(from me not gamepro). capcom 
could easily howeever push it back for the forth time tho.

sorry for the raggy post but its info, I would reccommend reading
gamepro(in the store if your on a budget).



-- 


Later...

/----------------------------------------------------------------\
|    DMC@Planet.Pinball=epasls@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu                |
|    RYU=de stud boy                                             |
|    Guile=de style boy                                          |
|    Vega=cheese                                                 |
|    Cindy Crawford=GODDESS                                      |
|    Pain=Happiness=Sadness=Pleasure                             |
|    And remember-"Big Brother is Watching you."                 |
\----------------------------------------------------------------/














Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: loverde@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (AstralWolf)
Subject: Re: SFII-CE Match-UPs and Ratings
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 17:43:56 GMT

In <1992Dec12.051512.20049@leland.Stanford.EDU> inkblot@leland.Stanford.EDU (Thomas Calvin Cannon) writes:

>In article <Bz4opM.DoH@news.cso.uiuc.edu> caine@dcl-nxt01 (Caine B Schneider) writes:
>
>[ratings and commentary deleted]
>
>>I do agree with your Sagat ratings.  I've seen many a Ryu or Ken (including
>>yourself) go down to Sagat.  Personally, I play Sagat to beat Ryu or Guile,
>>but vs. Ken seems to be more advantageous to Ken.  
>
>Really?   I think it's the other way around; Sagat has a slight advantage 
>against Ken, and falls a bit behind Ryu.  The deciding factor is the
>difference between the two's fireballs;  Ken's recovery time is so slow
>that Sagat can jump over and smack him without having to anticipate the
>fireball.  Against Ryu, Sagat gets DPed.  So, a defensive Sagat can take out
>Ken without too much trouble.  
>
     I agree Ryu has a better chance, but it is because of his HK.  Many a
time I have tiger uppercutted right through him...annoying...
ANyway, Sagat's jump is quick enough to react to even a Ryu fireball and 
clock him.  The difference is you can jump in and combo Ken, whereas you have to
hit Ryu pretty high...too high to combo...

>ON ANOTHER NOTE...
>------------------
>
>Now that the 'Ryu fireball' thread has died down, how's about discussing 
>Sagat's low 'tigerball' trap.  I tried it for the first time today, and
>it seems to be just as (if not more) effective than Ryu's trap.  It's basic
>execution is exactly like Ryu's (i.e. stand about 3/4 of the screen away
>from your opponent when he's in the corner and assault him with a barrage
>of low tigers.)  Any comments?
>
     The only problem with it is that they because the tiger is so low,
the opponent has the option of an offensive jump, which is not possible vs
Ryu since the fireball is higher.  This makes is slightly easier to 
escape since Sagat has to guess qhich escape mechanism will be used.
But I do agrre it is effective, though not nearly as much so as Ryu's.
     But speaking of tiger traps, vs Ken/Ryu try this.  Corner em (piece
of cake right?  well I'll assume you get em there), then from half the
screen away, toss slow tiger after slow tiger.  If they jump in or
try to HK, you can always tiger uppercut em,  I personally think their
best escape is to DP through a tiger...then you can't just toss another
tiger since they can jump and kick you from that distance.  But most
Ken/Ryu's will try to jump in or HK....TIGER UPPERCUT.....*drain*......


-- 
   /|        /              / |      /       /  /-/  Can be reached on the
  / |  /--/ --- |/-/ /-\|  |  |  ^  /  /-\  |  |/    Astral Planes known as:
 /--|  \-\   |  |   |   |  |  | /| /  |  |  |  |      loverde@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
/   | \--/  /  /    \--/| /   |/ |/   \-/  /   /      jvl45017@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
From: spolar4879@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: Ken
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:08:35 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

Alright, all you SFII masters.  I have a trap scenario you should think about,
executed with the powerful Ken (or RYU if you so desire...)
   The key to performing this trap/glitch/cheap move is faith... Perhaps
someone has written about this before, but I have a way to trap the following
characters... Bison(easily), Balrog(easily),Guile(easyily), Zangief
(Unless he can do the SPD over a fairly long distance), Chun-Li, E. Honda
(Easily), Ryu(usually), & Ken(unless he can fierce DP when the FB is thrown)
This is how I do it...(Please remember, I am not boasting... although I am
good, I am not the best in my arcade... assuming I don't use this trap, I am in
the top 5)
     First, as I said before, you must have faith.  Second, you must be able to
throw the fireball and do a consistent DP.  Throw the FB(Speed doesn't seem to
matter).  If the player starts to jump, you must immediately use the DP.  Even
though your'e player(KEN or RYU) still stays in the FB throwing position, if
you do the DP quick enough(Right after the throw), you will rise into the punch
before the opponent can come down and kick you in the body.  You may have had
the computer do this to you when you jumped over Ken/Ryu's fireball to kick
them.  They all of a sudden DP'ed you out of no where.  I have found that it is
possible to do this with such quickness that players can't jump over you.  It
is important, though, to wait and make sure your oponent isn't jumping to throw
the next FB.  The only characters that I know of that can get out of it are
those that can slide forward.  Has anyone else discovered this/countered it?

                Your Newly discovered reader,
                J. Spolar
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: loverde@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (AstralWolf)
Subject: Re: SFII-CE Match-UPs and Ratings
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 17:36:39 GMT

In <Bz4opM.DoH@news.cso.uiuc.edu> caine@dcl-nxt01 (Caine B Schneider) writes:
>
>  Ming, are you sure that Balrog loses 10/10 to Guile?  That would seem 
>highly unlikely.  Also, you didn't give Dhalsim enough credit vs. Zangief.
>I've many matches where Zangief simply can't get close to Dhalsim.  This,
>of course, is a very boring battle, but Dhalsim usually wins...  The Vega
>vs. Dhalsim battle is a little closer than you say.  Maybe not 9/1, but 8/2
>or 7/3.  But then again, this would be my experience counting on yours...
>I do agree with your Sagat ratings.  I've seen many a Ryu or Ken (including
>yourself) go down to Sagat.  Personally, I play Sagat to beat Ryu or Guile,
>but vs. Ken seems to be more advantageous to Ken.  
     Guile vs Balrog - mix forward kicks razors and booms...byebye Balrog
     Dhalsim vs Zangief - Zangief has a lot of arial priority when he jumps
  		          and attacks and takes of a shitload of damage when he
                          does, same with crouching roundhouse.  All this
                          applies from far away...in close..huh whoosh whoosh

-- 
   /|        /              / |      /       /  /-/  Can be reached on the
  / |  /--/ --- |/-/ /-\|  |  |  ^  /  /-\  |  |/    Astral Planes known as:
 /--|  \-\   |  |   |   |  |  | /| /  |  |  |  |      loverde@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
/   | \--/  /  /    \--/| /   |/ |/   \-/  /   /      jvl45017@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: "mark longridge" <mark.longridge@canrem.com>
Subject: turbo sf2
Reply-To: "mark longridge" <mark.longridge@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: alt
Date: 20 Dec 92 23:12:32 EST

Well, this is what I get for being cocky.

After finishing SF2 on original and CE versions six consecutive
times on one quarter I encounter a Black-Belt CE machine which
the operator told me was on MAXIMUM difficulty.

I put in my 50 cents and defeat (with some difficulty) the first
seven warriors without losing. Match #8 was against Ryu, and
I always play Chun Li. On non Black Belt machines I can beat
95% of all human opponents, losing only to master Guile, Ken
and Ryu players. Against the best Guile player I know I can
only win 1 of 5 matches.

Anyway, the computer Ryu does all super fast fireballs, and
immediately Dragon Punches me if I jump in over them. If
I use the flying short the computer Ryu takes it and sac
throws me! It felt like I was playing a human master. I
couldn't even jab-jab-throw him, as he would counter throw.

After all that I'm not playing Black Belt edition. I can't
beat the machine at the hardest setting on Black Belt.
And, after weeks of trying I am finally admitting that a master
Guile or Ken/Ryu will win more more often than not against
a master Chun Li player.

Just for reference my stop scores (without continues) are:

SF2 original:   726,000
SF2 CE:         860,000
Super NES:      910,000

...all using Chun Li. I organized a tournament on Coin-op SF2
and Super NES SF2 and this guy Mike (incredible player)
destroyed all comers with Guile. Not even the best Ken players
could beat him in a single match. Perhaps I should start
learning Guile...
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: prock@teetot.acusd.edu (Big A)
Subject: Re: SFII-CE Match-UPs and Ratings
Organization: University of San Diego, Earth
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 21:00:01 GMT

In article <Bz5KoJ.3Ct@acsu.buffalo.edu> v080jq9a@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Thomas J Pastor) writes:
>In article <1992Dec12.051512.20049@leland.Stanford.EDU>, inkblot@leland.Stanford.EDU (Thomas Calvin Cannon) writes...
>>[ratings and commentary deleted]
>> 
>>ON ANOTHER NOTE...
>>------------------
>> 
>>Now that the 'Ryu fireball' thread has died down, how's about discussing 
>>Sagat's low 'tigerball' trap.  I tried it for the first time today, and
>>it seems to be just as (if not more) effective than Ryu's trap.  It's basic
>>execution is exactly like Ryu's (i.e. stand about 3/4 of the screen away
>>from your opponent when he's in the corner and assault him with a barrage
>>of low tigers.)  Any comments?
>
> I tend to mix up high and low tigers.  This really screws up my opponents
>since they have to anticipate the speed AND height of the oncoming tigers.

Actually this may sound weird but I rarely hit people with high tigers
unless they are coming _down_ from a jump.  Most people just jump up
straight through the High Tigers, unless they are right on top of them.
This may sound weird but I have seen several people seemingly jump
straight through the High Tiger.

Andrew Prock
>
>                                   --Thomas J. Pastor-- 
>> 
>>>Caine Schneider
>>>
>>---
>>T. Cannon


Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: jengagne@wam.umd.edu (Jenny Lynne Gagne)
Subject: Re: Prelude #3:  Chun-Li, the story goes on....
Keywords: fanfiction, story, intro 
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 02:21:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.231729.15518@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> victor@ucme.Berkeley.EDU (Victor Wang) writes:

<Very good short intro for SF2 characters deleted... go read it yourself>
>According to this story, she must be very strong since "more muscle bound than  most men that she worked out with", and she must be very beautiful.  But do you
>see the problem here?  If a girl has more muscle than a man and stronger than
>a man how can she be a "beauti" like the picture shown in the game?  Who would
>want to marry her?(she might beat you up too)  Well, in the SNES virsion or may
>be the arcade virsion too.  She says "Finally, I can get back to be a single
>girl."  I mean what for?  Nobody will even look at her since she has more muscle
>than a man.  Maybe she should go to Olympic for some activities.

What you have to realize here is that the generalization is that women aren't
completely musclebound, so we have a little reality quirk in the game that
her figure is perfect yet she can kick some serious rear.  Admittedly in
both arcade and SNES versions her leg muscles are pumped a bit, but the
upper body is untouched... ah, blame it on the artists.  :)  (I'm not being
deadly serious here, for any flamethrowers)

Anyway, it's still a worthy character sketch in Hoanga's series, and I'm
eagarly awaiting more.

(A full-length SF2 fanfiction story would be amusing to read.  Pretty tough
to write, but fun to read.  I'd tackle it myself, but I tend to write
sarcasticly/parodyily... if that's a word.)

/------ :) ------------+-------------------------------------------------\
| Jengagne@wam.umd.edu | "Quick, man!  Cling tenaciously to my buttocks!"| 
|   Happy Happy Happy, |             - Powdered Toast Man                |
|     Joy Joy Joy!     |                    from Ren & Stimpy            |
+------------ (: ------+-------------------------------------------------+
|Look for Gagne Software ("One Dares Call It Quality") PD games near you!|
\------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: bigdave@vermont.tdd.sj.nec.com (David Sweeney  x2987)
Subject: Re: Good of ticking [please read]
Reply-To: bigdave@tdd.sj.nec.com
Organization: NEC-AM TDD, San Jose, California
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 00:26:25 GMT

el27166@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (This Space for Rent) writes:
>skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian) writes:
>
>
>Oh how many games have I played dancing back and forth, enticing a mistimed
>roundhouse?  Or a walk forward up to an opponent getting up and then walk
>back at the last second to see Ryu go up into the air for a DP and then
>throw Ryu after he comes down?  None of these subtle dances are possible
>when players have no fear of getting thrown.
>
>What happens when I try these things on a No-Throw player?  I start doing
>a little dance way out of throw range, and the No-Throw player just sits
>and blocks... EXCITING!  So I walk in and throw him... Why?  I'm a cheap
>bastard and I find the game very dull if you can retreat into a haven of
>blocking.

Is this "no-throw" rule very widespread?  I've never run into it on the 
West Coast.  Although the jab-throw variety of ticking is frowned upon in
most arcades, throws are a big part of the game around here.  With the 
increased counterthrowing ability in the CE, I'm surprised such an amazingly 
dull rule even exists.  I can't imagine not being able to have the honor
of walking up and biting a hiding Guile...

-- 
Dave Sweeney     bigdave@tdd.sj.nec.com
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: cw21219@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Crying Freeman)
Subject: Re: Sagat's fireball trap
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 07:03:17 GMT

inkblot@leland.Stanford.EDU (Thomas Calvin Cannon) writes:

>In article <Bz68pu.Gz2@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cw21219@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Crying Freeman) writes:
>>el27166@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (This Space for Rent) writes:
>>
>>
>>
>[stuff deleted]

>>>Sagat certainly can get you into a fireball trap, but it's not as annoying
>>>as Ryu's... except maybe for Guile :-)
>>
>>You really think Sagat's trap is worse than Ryu's (for Guile)? One major 
>>difference I found is that if you can anticipate Sagat and jump over his
>>low tiger, you can do much more than you can against Ryu, because of
>>the forward kick combos. Against Ryu, if you stick your foot out too
>>early, you'll get sac thrown... If you are too late, you'll get DP'd.
>>Against Sagat, you'll hit him in the low "after tiger" delay position
>>and can follow it up with a combo.

>This just doesn't work!  Guile is _too_ far away from Sagat (who _should_ be
>nearly 3/4 the screen away in a proper trap) to combo Sagat.

Like I said before, then I don't consider this a "trap" because the situation
doesn't force you to be bombarded by fireballs. It's too far away, so
you can jump them or as you said standing forward over them (still gotta
try this... :)) 

But I agree that this is a pain in the butt to fight against...

I also agree that Bison kills Sagat. I played Bison once against
two pretty good Sagat players (Sagat was the prime character for
both players) and a few other "expert" players, and actually held
the machine for about twenty matches.  I was never beaten, and
eventually turned the game over to a friend. I found the most potent
move against Sagat was the scissor kick... 

>>
>>>-- 
>>>Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek)                      el27166@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
>>>Guys with long sigs are just trying to compensate for something...
>>-- 
>> Kenneth C. Wang	| University Of Illinois Champaign-Urbana	
>> 			| Internet: c-wang@uiuc.edu			
>---
>T. Cannon


-- 
 Kenneth C. Wang	| University Of Illinois Champaign-Urbana	
 			| Internet: c-wang@uiuc.edu