HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: zappala@Xerox.com (Daniel Zappala)
Subject: Re: Say it's so! Baseball in Tampa Bay!!!
Reply-To: zappala@Xerox.com (Daniel Zappala)
Organization: Xerox PARC
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:05:57 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.152932.6722@adobe.com>, snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
> In article <1992Aug11.220504.21696@parc.xerox.com> zappala@Xerox.com (Daniel Zappala) writes:
> >Yep. And:
> >
> >[from clari.sports.baseball]
> >> From his vacation home in New Hampshire, Grousbeck issued a statement
> >>saying Major League Baseball's uncertain financial future with
> >>escalating salaries and projected declines in broadcast rights fees had
> >>caused him to have second thoughts.
> >>        ``As of 1994 I project that the team's losses will increase to more
> >>than $10 million per year upon the expiration of the CBS television and
> >>radio agreement,'' Grousbeck said. ``I can't see my way clear to lead an
> >>investor group that would make a competitive offer for the Giants, and
> >>then be faced with further annual investments of that size.''
> >[end excerpt]
> 
> That's nice, but it doesn't really tell us anything other than the fact
> that Grousbeck doesn't want to buy the team.
> 

I'll have to paraphrase your original posting, since you didn't include it,
but my point was that it is difficult to buy a franchise when you are faced
with having the franchise lose money every year.  You responded by saying
that franchises don't always lose money, and besides, it would have to
lose an awful lot of money to counteract the growth rate of $8 million to
$111 million in 14 years.

The above excerpt, beyond telling us that Grousbeck doesn't want to buy the
team, also indicates that the projected annual losses *are* in fact enough
to hinder someone from buying the team.  


Daniel


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: psychlo@z.eecs.umich.edu (John-David Wellman)
Subject: Anyone know this guy?
Summary: ex(?) player
Keywords: Birthdays, Wellman, etc.
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 14:03:22 GMT

In one of the recent "Birthdays" posts, I noticed a player named 
Brad Wellman, born August 17, 1959 was listed.  Well, I always find
people with whom I share a last name to be instantly interesting, 
and thus I was wondering if anyone could give me a bit of a summary
of this (certainly great ;) man?  I probably could look him up, if
I were really near ANY reference books (these summer jobs halfway 
across the nation can be such a trial... B-> )
 
  Thanks, 
---
John-David Wellman, graduate student mediocre' 
University of Michigan, graduate school extraordinaire'


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sieferme@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Sieferman)
Subject: Re: Say it's so! Baseball in Tampa Bay!!!
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:31:51 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.011856.29108@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>However, I never denied that Candlestick park didn't hurt revenues; it
>does.  You said that owning a baseball team was a losing proposition
>long-term; I pointed out that it's hard to see how, given the appreciation
>of franchises that we've seen.  

The problem may be that an appreciating asset (like a MLB team) can still
show cash losses every year, and an owner can have problems covering
them.  An owner can still show a profit over a period of years
(appreciation minus losses) but may have trouble getting the cash
every year.  This is part of the reason why Jeff Smulyan recently
sold The Worst Team in Baseball (tm), and why other teams are believed to
be in financial trouble.  I don't know if this applies to Bob Lurie,
however.  The speed at which he accepted the Tampa Bay offer
does seem to suggest a bit of vindictiveness.
>
>Perhaps a more interesting question is, if owning a baseball team is a
>long-term losing proposition, why don't more owners sell?  Why were
>investors lined up to pay $95 million for an expansion team?  My particular
>question is why doesn't the current Pirate ownership group sell out:
>they're continually telling us all that they can't make money.  That
>ownership group paid $25 million for the Pirates in 1985, and took a $25
>million loan from the city.  If the Giants are worth $110 million, you
>ought to get at least close to that for the Pirates.  That gives them back
>their original $25 million investment, the money to pay off the rest of the
>loan, and a very nice profit besides.
>
>Sherri Nichols
>snichols@adobe.com

I've heard that anywhere from 8 to 12 teams are either for sale or
will be soon.  Up to now, owning a MLB team has been a financially
rewarding pasttime.  However, with the uncertain revenue future
many people are not sure if this will continue.  My feeling
(devoid of factual support) is that owning a MLB team will become
an activity similar to farming:  people will be willing to
invest more resources in it than is economically feasible 
just because they enjoy it so much.


-- 
| Eric Sieferman            |   "Winning cures everything."          |
| U. of W., M.C.I.S.        |     -- The Fabulous Sports Babe        |
| sieferme@u.washington.edu |                                        |
From: sar@philabs.philips.com (Sidney A. Rosenzweig)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Is there a Yankees mailing list?
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:20:31 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff Manor, NY.

If there's a Yankees mailing list, I'd like to join. If it exists, please let
me know how to subscribe.

Please e-mail me responses.

Sid
sar@philabs.philips.com
From: lkc@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Lee Casuto)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:44:59 GMT
Subject: Re: Braves Fans (No Flames)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

In rec.sport.baseball, vreddy@das.harvard.edu (Venkatesh Reddy) writes:

> Hehe. This is NOT meant to be gloating. I am genuinely wondering what has
> happened to the Reds? They have now dropped like 5 in a row, while the Braves
> have managed to pull out a >.750 recors in their last 60+ games. They are
> indeed the hottest team in baseball right now, but I was wondering where the Reds

I think the Reds are mostly spending their time on the disabled list.
When everyone was there and healthy, they were playing on par with the Braves.
Fortunately, for the Braves, they've all been healthy all season (so far).

> were? Se... I like seeing the Braves do it near the end... Just like last season.
> It came down to the last game. Besides, I have tickets for the Braves/Reds series
> finale, and it better be an important game! :) ANyone out there who might be able
> to enlighten me? Are the Reds in danger of being passed by the Padres or 
> something? Thanks...
> 
> -- Venk Reddy --

In our local paper (which isn't much) it is always reports that the slumping 
"team playing the Braves" lost again.  I don't think thay've made the 
connection.  It's not that the team is slumping, it's that they're playing
the Braves.  If I were writing the report, it would start out something like:

The Braves continued their domination by rolling over the "place name here"...

I think the race could be a lot closer if the Reds had fewer injuries, but
that's the nature of the beast.

l\
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tmurphy@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: Re: More Padre trade rumors@
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:13:12 GMT

In article <36787@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers) writes:
> Apparently four or five Padres have cleared waivers,
> including Benito Santiago.  Bruce Hurst was placed
> on revocable waivers, was claimed, and waivers withdrawn,
> so he's a Padre until the off-season.
> 
> The big rumor here (two sources say the same thing!)
> is Benito will be traded to the Expos for (probably)
> two prospects.  The Expos don't want to include Rondell White,
> but a deal is near.  The other prospect is a pitcher, I
> forget the name, but a middling prospect, as I recall.
> 
> No other deals appear imminent.  I still don't understand
> why Pat Clements couldn't have been traded for a body instead
> of being released... he's been pitching great for two or
> three years now.  How many decent lefties are there, anyway?
> 
> -- 
> Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
> Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
> UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
> La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kettler@oppy.mit.edu (KETTLER, THOMAS R.)
Subject: Re: Emotional Attachment to Teams
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: MIT Lab for Nuclear Science
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 18:03:00 GMT

Well, my attachment is different than most. First of all, I can't stand the DH 
and always root against the AL in the World Series even if the teams which I 
can't stand in the NL, such as the Dodgers or Mets are playing. I also never 
was a big fan of the 3 run homer, but instead preferred base stealing, good 
pitching and good defense. This led me to like the Expos as a team since 1981. 
Of course, everyone always asks me how someone from Ohio could ever get to like 
Montreal and that is what I say. Of course, most people like the teams from 
their own area when growing up, so I am different in that respect. This might 
also explain the statement expressed earlier about a team reflecting the 
innoncence of youth with parents throwing the all around with their children 
and the whole family going to the ballpark.

I was an undergraduate at Northwestern. While there, I was able to go to 
Wrigley to see the Expos beat the Cubs. My mother thought that I might become a 
Cubs fan while at Northwestern. However, the opposite occured. By being at NU 
and having a chance to see Harry on WGN and all that went with it, my dislike 
of the Cubs grew greater while there.

However, now as a graduate student of MIT, I go to games at Fenway. However, 
the games are not played remotely like the way I prefer to see a game played. 
After all, the Bosox or Red Sux are a station-to-station. I am still waiting 
for Billy Hatcher to overtake Reed for the the team's stolen base lead and am 
surprised it hasn't already happened.

I hope this also explains why Tanya could have such an attachment to the Giants 
and wish the franchise to stay without being a whiner.

					Sincerely yours,

					Thomas R. Kettler "Expos Fanatic"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ellis@oyster.cis.ohio-state.edu (steven lawrence ellis)
Subject: Re: Attention: Reds Fans
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:13:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.172433.15308@cis.ohio-state.edu> miked@cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Davey) writes:
>>>Its true the Reds need to strengthen the heart of the order but I do not
>  think Lou is letting things slide.  He has probably given up trying to
>  give advice to O`Neil but the division title is still within their grasp.
>  Lou played on the '78 yankees teem that came from 14.5 games back to 
>  win it all and I think Lou is a believer.  As far as Sabo is concerned, as of
>  Sunday, they were strongly considering putting him on the DL when Morris 
>  comes off if not sooner.  He wants to play no matter what, but with Coles
>  hitting the way he is, it would be suicide not to play him instead of
>  Chris at 3b.  The only problem with benching O'Neil (as I have been informed
>  by my illustrious Reds-lieber in Palo Alto, this would leave the Reds with 
>  no left-handed power.  With Morris at 100%, however, I think he and Doran 
>  (who I wish would be traded even though he is a good asset on the bence) 
>  would be more productive overall than O'Neil.
>
>
You also have to consider O'Neil's defense.  He has one of the best, if not the
best, arms of any NL right fielder and can take doubles, triples, and even runs
away from opponents.

Stv


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee")
Subject: Re: Kevin Gross Info
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 18:26:43 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Every source I have lists his birthday as June 8, 1961.

-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) - kbos@carina.unm.edu - I'm not the AntiChrist
I AM the AntiWoofer. - Junior Stathead{tm} - I'm a shutmouthed, selfless idiot!!
Latest Attempted Compiler of the R.S.BB FAQ - Now Accepting Submissions...(hint)
Have you hugged a Dan Gladden fan today? - Dave Rossing : .531/54/214 at Denver!
From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Support-Neutral W/L Report -- NL
Date: 14 Aug 92 00:52:32 GMT
Organization: Boo!

In <1992Aug13.162353.11655@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:

>In article <1992Aug13.160408.1943@uwm.edu> paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug12.180102.29366@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> mjw@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Michael Wolverton) writes:
>>>
>>>Pitcher       Team    E(W)  E(L)    W  L   Diff.
>>>------------------------------------------------
>>>Glavine        ATL   11.6   7.0    17  3    9.4
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>   
>>   If this doesn't prove that it's better to be lucky than good,
>>   I don't know what will! Just imagine lucking out to back-to-back
>>   Cy Youngs. This guy oughta play the lottery!!!

>This is a bit unfair, as I don't believe these numbers are park
>adjusted.  

I believe Michael <is> park adjusting all his numbers.


Greg 
-- 
  spira@panix.com       "The one-O delivery to Fisk.  He swings.  Long drive,  
 cmcl2!panix!spira      left field!  If it stays fair, it's gone!  Home Run!"  
158-17 Riverside Dr.                     Ned Martin, 10/22/75   
Whitestone NY 11357          (Insert your favorite baseball moment here)
From: ychen@ada.stat.uga.edu (Yinpu Chen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: MLB Magic Numbers for Mon, Aug 17th, 1992
Date: 18 Aug 92 14:45:27 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia Statistics Department

In article <44619@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> jtchern@ocf.berkeley.edu (Joseph Hernandez) writes:
>
>        MAGIC NUMBERS OF DIVISION LEADERS FOR MONDAY, AUGUST 17, 1992
>
>          [NOTE: Includes all of yesterday's games; i-idle yesterday
>                   z-won yesterday or split a doubleheader.]
>
>NATIONAL WEST		 MN	        	NATIONAL EAST		 MN
>Atlanta	Braves		 --		        Pittsburgh Pirates	z--
>Cincinnati Reds		z45		        Montreal Expos		 43
                         ^^
Should be 43
From: hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu (Harold_Brooks)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Mattingly & Murray vs. Milligan  was: Re: Oriole News -
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:06:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bt8Huq.6Lp
Distribution: usa
Organization: NSSL

In article <1992Aug18.200746.25864@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> sinhaa@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Anand Sinha) writes:
>In article <5646@transfer.stratus.com> gene@ok.sw.stratus.com (Eugene Loparco) writes:
[deletions]
>>
>>MUCH BETTER. Which brings up a point, have you ever seen these guys PLAY?  Yes
>>that's right, actually play.  If you did, you'd understand that there is a
>>big difference between Don Mattingly's defense and Randy Milligan's defense.
>
>Um yeah. I *do* watch baseball.  Hard as it may be to believe. And yes,
>I do admit that Mattingly's defense is probably better.  But how much
>does it *help* his team more?  Does he cut off more shots down the line?  Does
>he field bad throws better?  Maybe he *has* to because he gets more bad throws?
>Or does Mattingly's defense just "look" better.  
>
>Individual defense is affected by other players on your team.  For example,
>when Mattingly had Sax for a 2nd baseman, he would probably have to play 
>further off the line to guard the hole since Sax was fairly immobile.  Milligan
>on the other hand, has a far better defensive 2Bman in Billy Ripken.  So
>he doesn't *have* to make as many plays to his right as Mattingly does.  This
>is an important thing to consider.  

But, over the last few years, Milligan has fielded more of the ground balls
hit towards first base than Mattingly.  Adjusted ground ball defensive average 
numbers from 1989-1991:

        Mattingly  Milligan  AL avg.       Leader          Worst
1989       .639      .662     .647     .716 (McGwire)  .555 (A. Davis)
1990       .652      .659     .646     .718 (McGwire)  .573 (Hrbek)
1991       .660      .699     .662     .743 (McGwire)  .629 (Benzinger)

(Courtesy S. Nichols posting ~2 months ago)

I've included the best and worst numbers in the AL for each year (min. 75 
games) for a point of reference.  Now, Mattingly does do a better job of 
starting double plays, but he's average at getting to ground balls, while  
Milligan is a little above average.  It's really difficult to claim that
the 1989-1991 version of Don Mattingly was a much better fielder than
the 1989-1991 Randy Milligan.

Harold
-- 
Harold Brooks                    hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu
National Severe Storms Laboratory/CIMMS (Norman, OK)
Andres Galarraga (Through 18 August)  .228 BA  .354 SLG  .271 OBA
28 H away from .300  8 HBP  8 BB    684+ PA w/o a sacrifice
From: acw@sbmsg1.UUCP (Alvin White)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: (WAS Re: CRY BABY: PIRATES CRUSHED 15-0)
Date: 21 Aug 92 14:34:17 GMT
Reply-To: acw@sbmsg1.UUCP (Alvin White)
Organization: Southern Bell - MSG  Atlanta, Ga

In article <1992Aug17.033908.6951@cis.ohio-state.edu> atchison@shaggyman.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mark Atchison) writes:
>
>1-0, 15-0, or 150-0: it's one win.  And oh, by the way, the "West-leading
>Braves" were shut out for 8.1 innings today by a guy making his 4th major
>league appearance, and lost 4-2.  Made up for getting "crushed" 15-0 in 
>one afternoon.  Isn't baseball great?
>

I'll take 3 out of 4 any day. And oh, by the way, 3 out of 4 ON THE
ROAD.  Yes.  Baseball is great.                               
                                                                  
                                                             
Alvin White
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: st1ge@Rosie.UH.EDU (Edward Hui)
Subject: Jeff Brantley sucks!!!
Reply-To: st1ge@Rosie.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 06:53:13 GMT

The subject line says it all.  If the Giants want to stay in SF, they
better start winning some home games and they better not pitch Jeff
Brantley.  They just lost 2 out of 3 to the road weary Astros.  Bud
Black did not have his stuffs today, and was roughed up for 4 runs
and 9 hits in 3@1/3 innings.  But the relievers did an excellent job.
Bryan Hickerson, Mike Jackson and Rod Beck pitched 5@2/3 hitless
innings.  That was until Jeff Brantley came in in the 10th.  He 
immediately gave up a lead-off double to Steve Finley, who had been
stuggled recently.  One out later, Jeff Bagwell singled him in for
the winning run.  Brantley has been struggling so much lately that I
wonder why Roger Craig would pitch him in this situation.  He should
use Brantley first and let Rod Beck to come in when Brantley's in
trouble.  Besides, why would he want Brantley out there with a left-
handed hitting Finley leading off (he still have Dave Rhagetti and
Jim Pena in the bullpen), and Roger also knew that Jeff Bagwell hit
the daylight out of Brantley.  I say Roger should move Brantley into
the rotation (the Giants' 5th starter has the worst record in the
major league, so it won't get much worse) to straighten himself out.
Besides his high ERA, he had allowed a lot of inherited runners to
score and has lost confidence in his pitches.  This is a no-no for
relievers.

Edward Hui
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: What's a cycle?
From: Ken_Ziolkowski@transarc.com
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 07:43:10 -0400 
Distribution: usa
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA



  In Pittsburgh, a cycle is when:

  Jeff King gets a single, a double, a triple
  and a home run in the same month.

  Jose Lind gets a single, a double, a triple
  and a home run in the same year.

  Hey Stathheads - has either of the above ever
  happened?


From: mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 20:59:49 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Changed allegiance (Was: Say it's so! Baseball in Tampa Bay!!!)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

In rec.sport.baseball, luigi@sgi.com (Randy Palermo) writes:

> >No, a businessman sets a timetable and listens to all offers that came in on
> >time; he doesn't wait indefinitely.
> >
> Correct, but he did not do that. He said he would take the 1st reasonable
> offer that hit his desk and thats what he did. No timetable.

Sure, that's a timetable, just not a fixed one :-)

Seriously, it's been what, four years since these rumblings started?  The point
is, it was not all-of-a-sudden and out-of-the-blue.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc "Dave" Sabatella		Disclaimer: OPS is not the One True Statistic
marc@fc.hp.com			that makes all others obsolete
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mmmm - po-ta-to chips!" - John Stuart Mill
From: rlwilliams@gallua.gallaudet.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Jeff Brantley sucks!!!y
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:21:05 GMT
Organization: Gallaudet University

> Just look at what some
>>other 'washed up' Giants are doing:
>>
>>o Lefferts in SD is an allstar with a nice record
>>o After giving up on M. Davis he won a Cy Young for SD
>>o Mulholland is a good pitcher for Phi and has no-hit the Giants.
>>o Dennis Cook has a respectable ERA in Cleveland
>>
>    Jim Gott, despite walking home the winning run for the Giants Friday
>    night, is having a pretty good year.  
>    Russ Swan is not that bad for Seattle.  He never showed that he can
>    pitch in the majors when he's with the Giants.
> 
>>I'm sure its hard for someone like Brantley to stay focused when the team
>>sucks and is > 15 games out of first.
>>

------------
This is easy pickins...
Let's look at some other 'washed up' Giants are doing:

Chris Bown?
Kevin Mitchell?
Is Davis still in the Majors?
What was the name of the pitcher that the Yankees paid an enormous sum to?
Jack Clark?

Trades and releases are risky business... in the long run everyone's gonna 
get burned...

rlwilliams@gallua
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball