From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu Ayala)
Subject: Re: re Oriental bias against Indians ? How true ?
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 13:27:55 GMT

In article <ku6aidINN8jq@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (I Shop therefore I AM!!) writes:
>
>	vishram@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Vishram P.Dalvi) :
>	> Hi SCAA readers,
>
>Hi Vishram!  :^)
>
>	> This friend just asked me to FORGET THE GIRL. He told me that
>	> no Oriental girl will go for an Indian. 

  Not true!  There are always some women who will go for you no
  matter what you are.  Don't limit yourself due to stereotyping.
  Why don't you try and find out?

>	> ....
>	> Also the families are very conservative ... and so the parents 
>	> approve of their daughters dating only other Orientals  (This 
>	> didn't surprise me much because a lot of Indian families here 
>	> have the same mentality) and a lot of girls, respecting their 
>	> parents, will abide by their wishes !

  Family spamily.  There are always families like that in any group.
  And there are always offspring who want to live their own lives
  no matter what the family thinks.  And there are always families
  that change their mind later when they see their offspring happy.

>	> ....
>	> This revelation upset me very much (not just because I liked
>	> the girl) because I am raised in India in a very free atmosphere
>	> and my parents have been very liberal in my upbringing and I was 
>	> never fed any racist or sexist ideas. My parents never restricted 
>	> my friends or girlfriends to any specific race/religion or 
>	> language, nor has any restriction ever been placed on whom I can 
>	> marry (though they would definitely be more happy if I marry an 
>	> Indian girl !).

  Maybe your friend likes the girl too.  Hmmm, have you ever heard
  of two friends shopping and one says to the other, "Oh that dress
  looks horrible on you."  Then at the next party that friend
  appears with the dress you tried on, and looked gorgeous in it?
  (I'm not saying a woman is like a dress, so put back those
  flame-throwers.  Had to say this knowing this group).

  Good for you and your parents.  That is one less obstacle.  So
  at least the battle is half won.  My parents had preference for
  Chinese, but after seeing some of the more recent immigrants,
  even my mom had to admit that it was hard to stomach.  Again,
  not a slam on them, just that my mom is more used to the hard
  life of wartime and thinks the recent immigrants are too spoiled.
  Parents have their imagined preferences.  But once it translates
  to a real flesh and blood person, then they are really looking
  at you as whether you'll be good for their offspring.  My mom
  didn't like this Chinese guy who thought he was God's gift to
  Chinese mothers.  She doesn't automatically like someone just
  because they are Chinese.  She likes my husband just fine and
  he isn't Chinese.  Neither are my sister's husbands and she likes
  them too.  

>
>You've been very fortunate to have such good parents and it could be
>possible that this Asian woman that you're interested in had the same
>upbringing.
>
>I gather from the information in your post that you took the advice of 
>your friends and decided not to ask her out. I think this is a little 
>unfair; after all, how do you know she won't want to go out with you? 
>I think you've already made up your mind that she's just like your 
>friends describe without actually finding out for yourself. You might be
>pleasantly surprised.
>
>From my own experience, my parents would also be very happy if I dated
>and married a Chinese man but they know I'm very happy with my non-Asian
>boyfriend of 6 years so they have accepted it (they also like him very much)
>and they only want me to be happy. 

  My parents wouldn't be happy if I married someone just because they
  were Chinese.  In fact they wouldn't be happy at all (neither would
  I) if I dated a Chinese communist!  So it all boils down to the
  individual and not what label you wear.  Most parents want what is
  best for their kids.
>
>Vishram, you and I are very fortunate to have been raised in such an 
>unrestricted and loving manner so I would like to advise you to ask this
>lady out to truly find out what her feelings are about dating Indians.
>
>Who knows - this could be the beginning of a beautiful romance.  ;^)
>
>	> SO the very idea of a bias repulsed me and set me thinking on 
>	> whether this would be true and WHY ?
>
>You'll find that *in general* there will be prejudices of some sort
>among all races. In my experience, I have never encounted other Chinese
>people with prejudices against Indians, but again, that's just been
>my experience. Among my family and friends, there are certain ethnic
>groups where it would be scandalous to consider dating (no, I won't 
>specify which ones). If this were the case with me, I know my parents
>would have a hard time at first but if they saw I was happy then they
>would accept it. My grandparents and other relatives would be another
>story.  :^)

  My grandparents and relatives accepted my Puerto Rican husband, no
  problem.  They don't have the concept of prejudice against Puerto
  Ricans, like most Anglo Americans do.  I doubt that being Indian
  is high up on most Oriental's list of prejudices.  Although unfortunately
  I know one Chinese friend of mine who has an Indian boyfriend and
  whose parents are upset.  So there are always some in any group.
  IMHO, I think most Chinese parents who grew up in WWII would be
  more upset if their offspring went with Japanese than Indian.
  I think Japanese is highest on their list because of WWII.  Many
  people had relatives killed and/or tortured during WWII.  My dad
  grew up under Japanese occupation, and my mom has seen more bombings
  and machine gun strafing of civilians than she wants to talk about.
>
>	> My personal experience has been that Caucasian women are very
>	> liberal when it comes to social interaction but Orientals are a bit
>	> restricted but I wouldn't say that I have found an overt bias as such.

  I think you're wrong about Oriental women.  Haven't you read about
  the great number of Oriental women marrying non-Oriental men?
  In fact the majority of Chinese-American and Japanese-American
  women are married outside of their ethnic group, something like
  4 out of 5.  Now if you were an Indian girl wanting to date an
  Oriental man, you may find more difficulty since their rates of
  outmarriage are very low.
>
>I think it depends on what generation of Asians you're dealing with too:	
>I think each successive generation becomes more liberal.
>
>	Melinda


-- 
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Clare Chu, Ph.D.             Data & Information Services
NYNEX Science & Technology   clare@nynexst.com
White Plains, NY 10462       AMIGA RULES!!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american