From: dcg5662@hertz.njit.edu (Dave Grabowski (KxiK))
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
Subject: SUMMARY: SCSI Tape Backups
Date: 22 Dec 92 08:52:10 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.
Originator: dcg5662@hertz.njit.edu


  A few weeks ago, I posted a message requesting feedback about tape
backup systems for a DOS box using a SCSI controller.
  If you might have any information about this, please send me mail
regarding any hardware/software you have used, and what your recommendation
would be. I'd like to include as many replies in this summary as I can.
Again, any additional replies will be summarized.
  First, I'd like to thank everyone who replied to me. All the responses
are very useful, and will definitely help me make the right decision. I
found it surprising to see how many people recommended DAT drives over
conventional tape drives -- too bad they're still over the $1K mark.
  Here goes what I have received, in no particular order (edited a bit):

-----BEGIN SUMMARY-----

From mberhan@cup.portal.com

I personally would recommend you get a DAT drive like the Archive Python
DAT or HP 2.2 GByte DAT but that's $1000 which may be out of your budget
but would last you for awhile.

I personally use Central Point Backup v8.0 with my Wangtek 525.  The drive
costs about $800 and can backup to 500 MBytes or so.  With data compression,
I get about 13 MBytes/min.  I'm using their DOS version though their
Windows version should be out in a couple of months.  I have an AHA-1542B.
Good luck.

Mike


From poffen@sj.ate.slb.com

I would recommend an Archive, or Wangtek, probably in the 525Mb range. As far
as software, there is a port of GNU tar that runs on top of ASPI (you do
have an ASPI driver loaded, right?) and is compatible with TAR on UNIX.

Russ Poffenberger               DOMAIN: poffen@sj.ate.slb.com
Schlumberger Technologies ATE   UUCP:   {uunet,decwrl,amdahl}!sjsca4!poffen
1601 Technology Drive		CIS:	72401,276
San Jose, Ca. 95110             Voice: (408)437-5254  FAX: (408)437-5246


From: liuwu@acuson.com (Wu Liu)

I'm using an Archive 2150S (150mb w/ 6150 tapes, 250mb w/ 6250s) with
a Bustek (now BusLogic) BT542B host adapter.  Works fine for me.  I
got it primarily for use with Unix, then discovered that there was a
version of GNU tar ported to DOS for use with the Adaptec ASPI drivers.
Got a copy of those, and now I can read/write tar format tapes under
both DOS and Unix.

The drive cost me $499 (from NCA Peripherals in Sunnyvale, CA) a little
over a year ago; I've seen it down to $469 (internal; external w/
housing is $569).  A friend just told me of a place here in Silicon
Valley that's selling new Archives drives (presumably internal) for
$300.

Wangtek has the 5150ES, which is roughly comparable to the Archive, and
about the same price.

I think both drives are rated at about 5mb/s throughput, but I don't
have my 2150S manual with me, so I can't verify that.
--
Wu Liu                          Software Engineer, User Interface Group
liuwu@acuson.COM                Acuson


From admerlev@cip.e-technik.uni-erlangen.de

>1. Drive type (Capacity, Internal/External, etc.)
DAT Archive Python 3,5 inch, 2GB, internal
>2. How fast is it?
170kb/s = 10MB/min
>3. What software supports it? Is software good?
Adaptec 1542b + corelscsi; soso but usable
>4. How much did you pay for it?
1149US$   Hard Drive Super Source Sunnyval

Arnd
ps: I really do like it!


From rberteig@alumni.cco.caltech.edu

[who happens to have the exact same hardware config as I do! -Dave]

Archive Python DDS DAT, internal. Rated at 1.2 Gig on 60M tape,
  or 2.0 Gig on 90M tape.  Archive has various models of the python,
  some including autoloaders, and some with built-in data compression.

>2. How fast is it?

Async SCSI 2 transfer rate is 5Mb/sec.  Effective throughput is just under
10Mb/sec.  In real life running PCTools backup v8.0 I get about 8 - 9 Mb/sec
to write the data, and an equivalent rate to verify.  Since this is my home
system, I just start the backup before I crash, and turn the machine off
in the morning or if I wake up again later.

Claims are seek to any file in a save set in 20 sec or less.  I have never
clocked it, but it can certainly restore any random file in less than 1 min.

>3. What software supports it? Is software good? Does it run under
>   Windoze?

The drive was packaged with Sytos+ from Sytron Systems.  It sucks.  I can't
say that strongly enough.  The problem was not features.  The problem was
with it working at all.  Apparently my drive firmware is newer than the last
version tested by Sytron, and my system is fast, and my AHA-1742 is in enhanced
mode, and Sytos+ just won't work.

Adaptec recommended I try PCTools version 8.  It works.  Now my only complaint
is that PCTools backup doesn't really fully support being used from a batch
file.  In particular, it always exits with "success", even if it failed to
write any data.  Also, there is no way to verify that the tape it is about to
destroy is the one I intended to write on.  However, these are minor complaints
when compared to the complete failure of Sytos.

There is a Windows version of PCTools backup, but the last I checked it hadn't
been updated to v8.  I am not sure that I want something as critical as a
backup written from within Windows anyway. (Of course, since I ran for almost
a year with no backup at all, it seems hypocritical of me to insist on the
backup I do being perfect, but...)

>4. How much did you pay for it? (This is kinda important.. I'm working
>   on a college-student budget.. *sigh*)

Unfortunately for you, DAT is still way too expensive.  I paid about $1400.00
for the drive, and about $125.00 for PCTools.  The best price I found for the
drive was $1350.00 (bundled with Sytos+... I think there might have been a
listing at $1300.00 with no software at all somewhere, and if I had known then
about Sytos+ I would have done that instead).  Since the drive is a 3.5" half
height drive, I had to install it in a 5.25" half-height drive bay. The bezel
and adaptor rails are only available from Archive and cost $50.00 (amazingly
expensive for two chunks of folded steel, but it does have a replacement face
plate for the drive so that it nicely fills the space). Manual are also extra
($50.00 for the Archive Python SCSI manual, I haven't priced the "Product
Description" manual).

>5. Recommendations as to where to purchase one?

I got mine from APS (Aliance Peripheral Systems) in Indepenance, MO.
Their order line is (800) 233-7550.

It is probably worth the time spent scanning an issue of Computer Shopper
looking for the fine print adds for DAT drives.


Good luck...


    _ __  --Ross Berteig    __
---' )  )                  /  )        _/_
    /--' _____    _       /--<  _  __  /  _  o _,
   /  \_(_) /_)__/_)_    /___/_(<_/ (_(__(<_(_(_)_
                                               /|
  rberteig@Alumni.Caltech.Edu  (818) 301-0960 |/

[cute .sig! -Dave]


From djbassler@ucdavis.edu

>1. Drive type (Capacity, Internal/External, etc.)

Archive DAT, internal, 5gig (with compression) on 90 meter tapes.

>2. How fast is it?

VERY VERY VERY fast.  It can back up a couple of hundred megs in a
matter of minutes.

>3. What software supports it? Is software good? Does it run under
>   Windoze?

I use it under OS/2 2.0 with the GNU tar program (public domain
software).  The drive came with SyTos software (By Sytron Corp.).  I
heard that Sytos is the best backup sortware around for DOS/Windows.  I
[Funny -- the message above went on about how *BAD* SyTos was! -Dave]
wouldn't know because mine is still shrink wrapped.  They wanted me to
pay $100 to upgrade to the OS/2 version.  I paid less than that for the
operating system!

>4. How much did you pay for it? (This is kinda important.. I'm working
>   on a college-student budget.. *sigh*)

About $1500.  It's a bit pricey, but it's a good drive.

>5. Recommendations as to where to purchase one?

APS technologies.  They have an ad in Computer Shopper.

DJB

-----END SUMMARY-----

  If you have anything to add to this, please let me know!

-Dave
-- 
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