From: mwbg9715@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark Wayne Blunier)
Subject: Re: New Gasoline Ripoff
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 04:24:26 GMT

bjm@umnstat.stat.umn.edu (Bret J. Musser) writes:

>In article <1992Nov6.143213.25708@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> sdb@redbeard.physics.fsu.edu (Scott D. Berry) writes:
>>>I read somewhere (could be wrong) that there would be a significant
>>>reduction in C02 emissions.
>>
>>>>You are wrong -- alcohol is more expensive than the gas.
>>>>Remember the actual cost of the gasoline is NOT the ~$1.20
>>>>you pay for it at the station.  My memory tells me that the
>>>>actual cost (out of the refinery) is closer to $.60-$.80/gal.
>>>>(or even less, since there are typically $.30 in taxes).
>>>

>    The entire story about ethanol in gasoline is documented in an EPA
> study.  Environmentally, the impact in using ethanol is to reduce tailpipe
> emissions (taking into account changes in fuel economy, etc.).  However, 
> adding alcohol will increase evaporative emissions.  Evaporative emissions 
> come when you fill your tank with gas, or when the car is just sitting 
> and gas evaporates out of your carb, etc.  During winter, the evaporative
> emissions aren't so bad.  But during summertime, the result will be a net
> loss for the environment.  That is why the EPA requires that ethanol 
> be used only during the winter months.

>    The cost of ethanol ready-to-add is about $3.00 per gallon (or so).  It
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Could you give a source for this? (I don't think so)
> translates into a 5 cents per gallon increase in the pump price.
Well lets see.  $3.00 per gallon minus $0.54 cents tax credit equals cost
of $2.50 per gallon.  This relaces 10% to the gallon of $1.039 gas, so costs
about 0.10*($2.50 - 1.039) = $0.15 per gallon.  The Ethonal companies would
love to be able to get that much extra for ethanol (but they don't).
>    Now, if you also look at the cost (money and environmentally) of growing
> ethanol (from wheat or whatever) the true value of ethanol goes down even
> more.
Gee what are the 'true costs' of ethanol?  We have a country which is
heavily dependent upon foreign oil.  Ever wonder how long we could make
it without that oil.  Unforturnately not very long.  The US also has what is
called the Food Securitys Bill, usually refered to as a Farm Bill.  One of
its provisions is to provide finiancial encentives for farmers to not farm.
How much of that money could be used to support ethanol by just switching
to different support programs?  If you can figure this out you have
my respect.  I suppose the best we can do is guess, as the economy it not
that easy to figure out.

Oh, and by the way, ethonal is produced from starch from corn in most cases.
Several by-products are aslo produced, such as high protein gluten meal, 
gluten feed, germ (and corn oil), and some other process streams.

Minnesota has passed a law making the use of ethanol based gasolines
> mandatory state-wide by 1997.  This is nothing but a public-works act for 
> farmers because the net result will be an increase in damaging emissions.
> Do not blame the oil companies or the EPA: they have issued the reports 
> stating this.
I most certainly will not blame the oil companies (they get blamed with enough)

> Bret.

Mark Blunier


>-- 
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>      Bret J. Musser -- University of Minnesota  -- Dept. of Statistics  
>"The more perfect civilization is, the less occasion has it for government..."
>					    (Thomas Paine, The Rights of Man)