HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Subject: Re: The Christian argument for vegetarianism
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 15:54:11 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

In article <1992Oct15.140139.6093@abo.fi> abulsari@aton.abo.fi (A. Bulsari) writes:
>
>From: Michael Traub <traub@btcs.bt.co.uk>
>
>          The Christian Argument for Vegetarianism
>
>Excerpted from the book:
>Christianity and the Rights of Animals, (Crossroad Publ. Co., NY)
>
>by
>
>Rev. Dr. Andrew Linzey
>Director of Studies
>Center for the Study of Theology
>University of Essex
>
>   The Christian  argument for  vegetarianism  then  is simple:  since
>animals belong to God, have value to God and live  for God, then their
>needless destruction is sinful.  In short: animals have some right  to
>their  life,  all  circumstances  being  equal. 

This logic is weak. Taken to its logical conclusion, you could say the
same thing about plants, viruses, or any other entity with life. Where
do you draw the line?

Furthermore, being an animal-rights activist is not a prerequisite to
being a Christian, nor is it something Christ was preoccupied with.

The reverend who wrote the book should not use his status with the
Church as a credential for being a spokesperson for animal rights. If
he wants to pursue this worthy matter as a private citizen, however,
then his argument would make more sense. Otherwise, he makes
Christianity more complicated than it need be.



Newsgroups:   rec.food.veg
From:         loc@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM (Leigh Clayton)
Subject:      Fruitbat's recipe for mushroom croute
X-Telephone:  +1 (416) 364-5361 Fax +1 (416) 364-2910 Telex 0622259
Organization: Reuters APL Software Division
X-Mail:       1900/2 First Canadian Place, Toronto, Canada, M5X 1E3
Date:         16 Oct 92 18:04:14 UT

-From root Tue Dec 11 19:22 GMT 1990
-Path: yrloc!itcyyz!geac!torsqnt!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!tu
-t.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!tardis.computer-science.edinburgh.ac.uk!fruitbat
-From: fruitbat@tardis.computer-science.edinburgh.ac.uk
-Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
-Subject: Vegan: Mushroom Pate en Croute
-Message-ID: <sent.Mon.Dec.10.16:28:53.GMT.1990.via.CS.TARDIS>
-Date: 10 Dec 90 16:28:53 GMT
-Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
-Lines: 48
-
-
-Fruitbat nonchalently removes impressive looking mushroom pate en croute
-(mushroom pie for the americans :^>) out of the oven, brandishes a knife
-and totally fails to manage to cut the pastry without endangering the
-Superior LifeTime Guaranteed MegaWonderful Tefcrap Non-Stick surface (tm)
-below. Put down on present list for christmas: industrial band-saw.
-
-fruitbat@tardis.cs.ed.ac.uk
----------------------------
-
-                         - Mushroom Pate en Croute -
-
--Ingredients-
-
-1 lb (450g) frozen puff pastry, thawed (or 8 oz fresh flaky pastry)
-A little raw egg yolk or softened vegan margarine
-1 onion
-1 oz (25g) butter or vegan margarine
-2 lb (900g) mushrooms
-2 garlic cloves
-2 (3) tbsp chopped parsley
-4 oz (100g) dried wholewheat breadcrumbs (or 2 oz fresh)
-2 (3) tbsp lemon juice
-Salt and Black pepper
-
--Method-
-
-Preheat the oven to gas mark 7 (220C,425F). Finely chop the onion and
-mushrooms and crush the garlic.
-
-Fry the onion in the butter in a large saucepan for 10 minutes. Add the
-mushrooms and fry for 20-30 minutes, until all the liquid has evaporated.
-
-Remove from the heat and add the garlic, parsley, breadcrumbs, lemon juice,
-salt and pepper to taste. Allow the mixture to cool.
-
-Roll 1/3 of the pastry into a 6 x 12 inch (15 x 30 cm) rectangle. Place on
-a baking sheet, spoon the mushroom mixture on top (heaping it up in the centr
-e)
-and brush the edges with water.
-
-Roll the remaining pastry into a 9 x 12 inch (23 x 30 cm) rectangle. Fold
-the pastry in half lengthways and make diagonal cuts to within an inch or
-so of the edges for a decorative finish. Ease the pastry on top of the mushro
-om
-mixture and open out to cover.
-
-Press the edges together and trim away any excess pastry. Brush with the
-egg yolk or margarine, and bake for 30 minutes until golden-brown.
-Serve hot or warm.
-


--------------------------------------------------------
It's only work if somebody makes you do it    .../Calvin
--------------------------------------------------------
Leigh Clayton                  loc@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM
    -or-                     loc@ipsaint.ipsa.reuter.COM
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: saarinen@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Sirpa Saarinen)
Subject: Re: where food comes *from* (was: What's wrong wi
Organization: UIUC Center for Supercomputing Research and Development
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 18:41:02 GMT

dorseyev@csgrad.cs.vt.edu (Edward V. Dorsey IV) writes:

>In article <1992Oct7.170729.2828@nic.csu.net> ekeller@calstatela.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Oct7.203951.26254@socrates.umd.edu>, tara@socrates.umd.edu (Tara McDermott) writes:
>>[ skipping some of the included article excerpts...]
>>|> 
>>|> This whole thread is a good point.  I hate seeing the "parental
>>|> discrention is advised" when a graffic item is shown on tv.  I think
>>|> children SHOULD see things for what they really are.  Children should
>>|> be able to see a cow being butchered in a slaughterhouse.  Yes, it is
>>|> graffic, and totally disgusting.  That's the point.  Children need to
>>|> see the truth and not be coddled.  Everytime I run into parents or

>[lots of stuff deleted]

>I think honesty is important in all things, ESPECIALLY in dealing with
>children.  I'm not sure, however, that your logic in exposing children
>to slaughter would necessarily convert them into vegans.  I say this
>because long ago, when children were a part of this process, they didn't
>refuse meat as a result.  Granted, the means are different in some cases
>today than in eras past, but slaughtering is slaughtering, and if it
>were so abhorrant (sp?) as to render everyone unable toeat meat, this
>would have happened long ago.

Yes, but I think that the point was made that many people (children
included) are so far away from the "truth" in these matters that they
do not realize the extent of the issue. 

Take this scene I witnessed at a nearby lake: three small girls are fishing 
(7-12 years old I think). One of them catches a small fish. The lake is 
"catch-and-release". The fish somehow wiggles off the hook and lies on the 
ground and moves. All three girls scream next to the fish, which should be 
now thrown back into the lake. However, the girls do not dare to touch the 
fish to throw it into the lake but rather dance and move around as if crazy. 
Their mother comes and throws it back in (I was going to do it myself in a few 
seconds anyway). Could someone now tell me whether these girls would have 
been able to kill the fish (by e.g. hitting it on the head) and serving it 
for dinner? I doubt that the same girls would have been able to kill and
witness the killing of a calf or cow either.

Many people are so far from the "real life" (biological) events that they
have no idea what has happened to the food that comes in front of them.

Sirpa Saarinen
saarinen@csrd.uiuc.edu
From: jdg@ulysses.att.com (J. David Garland)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Natural Mosquito Repellant
Date: 16 Oct 92 22:11:03 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Murray Hill, NJ, USA

>In article <1b8j57INN1k9@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Mike E. Romano,
>bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu writes:
>   Many years ago I heard of an herbal solution which when
> rubbed on the arms, etc. would cause mosquitoes not only
> to refuse to bite but would actually convert them into
> vegans.  

Try citronella oil and/or pennyroyal oil. You can find it in most
health food stores. Mix a few drops with some mineral oil and apply
to the skin. I prefer to put the oils full strength on clothing.

It's very effective, and you have the side benefit(?) of smelling
like a gift shop (beats smelling like toxic waste from using Off).

Dave Garland
jdg@ulysses.att.com
From: kbroman@tinman.Berkeley.EDU (Karl W. Broman)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Potato bakes
Date: 9 Oct 92 08:24:48 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, U. C. Berkeley

>                 Rest of recipe follows unchanged:
>
>
>	1 Tablespoon oil   <-- about 14 cal.


Don't believe me.

Though I study statistics, I'm not necessarily a "numbers person".

It's been pointed out to me that 1 T oil is about 100 calories.

karl
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: schiles@valentine.us.oracle.com (Suzanne Chiles)
Subject: Re: List of participants (Version 9)
Reply-To: schiles@us.oracle.com
Organization: Office Automation Division
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:07:08 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

Category 1B:  Vegetarians who are mostly lurking

Suzanne Chiles
I stopped eating meat about a month ago.  It's the best decision I ever
made.  I read this group when I was trying to decide about this.  So, I
thank you all for your words that helped me on this road.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Suzanne Chiles				schiles@us.oracle.com
415-506-6194				Oracle Corporation
		      Honor Diversity
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: tara@socrates.umd.edu (Tara McDermott)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: safe and effective ant=away formula
Keywords: don't wana kill the buggers......
Date: 10 Oct 92 15:23:06 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Maryland University College

begonias@wam.umd.edu (Jeremy Ritzer) writes:


>I guess this isn't really appropriate, unless you consider eating anst/ants
>	a vegetarian choice, but i was wondering if anybody could help me
>	persuade some ant critters from hanging out on my kitchen counter.
>Any ideas?  Don't wanna buy those nasty things, and don't necessarily wanna 
>	commit wholseale slauhghter........
>Thanks......
>jeremy

I haven't gotten to the rest of the articles in this thread, so it's
already probably been answered, but let me tell you about my kitchen!
There are NO bugs, ever!  I live in the bottom half of a house, part
of which is underground.  We get plenty of bugs coming into our place
through cracks in the walls.  We've even had two of those blue tailed
salamanders in our bedroom!  We get crickets inside all the time, but
we still have no problem with bugs in the kitchen.  Ya wanna know why?
Because I cook with a lot of spices.  I also don't clean as much as I
should.  So when I cook, and inadvertently get all my fresh spices all
over the stove, countertops, and floor, and don't immediately sweep
them up, it keeps bugs away.  Bugs don't like the smell of spices. 

An indian woman I work with told me a story about a place they once
lived.  It was one of those apartment complexes where there are
roaches that you can do nothing about, since the garbage disposal
systems draw them in.  Well, her husband is a jain so killing the
roaches with Raid was out of the question for them.  What she did was
just scatter bay leaves all over the kitchen, and within a month all
the roaches and other bugs moved out.  I can attest to the fact that
her story must be true.  I'm young, and I don't always clean as well
as I should when it comes to food, but if I leave a dish unattended
all day on the counter, uncovered, there are NEVER any bugs around.
Just goes to show you that fresh, fragrant spices work to keep them
away.  I would suggest that if you don't immediately start cooking
with lots of yummy herbs that you make up little cups or pots of herbs
and leave them in all the corners of your kitchen, and in some of the
cupboards.  Try bay leaves, oregano, garlic cloves/powder, dill,
rosemary, thyme... those are the spices that I use most often.  Good
luck in you quest.

Tara
-- 
Tara McDermott                     You've got a friend in Pennsylvania,
From: darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Question on Buddhism and Vegetarianism
Date: 12 Oct 92 18:20:28 GMT
Organization: University of California, Davis

In article <1992Oct10.140950.28027@mailer.cc.fsu.edu>, mayne@dup.cs.fsu.edu (William Mayne) writes:
> 
> In article <8660022@hplred.HP.COM> dsouza@hplred.HP.COM (Roy D'Souza) writes:
> >
> >A couple of quick questions on vegetarianism and Buddhism:
> >
> >1) One of the percepts for Buddhist Monks is a restriction against eating
> >after noon. One source explained this to me as purely an aid to meditation.
> >Another mentioned that eating in the mornings and abstaining in the afternoons
> >matches the body's metabolism cycle, hence results in less fat gain.
> >Does this latter claim have any basis?
> 
      [Bill Mayne's excellent response deleted]
> 
> >2) I understand that the first percept for Buddhists (Monks and lay people)
> >is to refrain from killing. This is often interpreted as requiring a Buddhist
> >to be a vegetarian. (Though some interpret this to allow one to eat meat
> >if one has not actually killed the animal.) Anyway, my question is this: 
> >A book that I recently read, claims that Gauthama Buddha died from eating
> >"tainted pork." Does anybody know if this is really accepted as a historical
> >fact?
> 
> 
      [Bill Mayne's excellent response deleted]

I would just add that two Buddhist principles or ideals are involved here:
one, obviously, is "non-harm", the principle of not taking life or causing
harm. This is an *ideal*, as almost *anything* you eat involves the
taking of life, even plant life which is considered in Buddhist cosmology
to be endowed with the same Buddha-nature as animal and human life. 
Fruits and nuts and the like are examples of food which would seem
to not involve the taking of life.  To my knowledge there is no
*commandment* anywhere in Buddhist scriptures that eating meat is
*forbidden*.  But obviously some sects or traditions do refrain from
meat as a matter of course.

The other principle is non-attachment. What this would mean in this
context is that being *attached* to a particular diet, i.e., a vegetarian
diet, is just as spiritually harmful as eating meat. So there might
be a tendency to use one's vegetarianism as a "prop" to "prove" to
yourself how "spiritual" you are, without actually confronting the
basic issues or seeing yourself as you really are.  Attachment or
clinging is seen as both the source and major symptom of our deluded
or ignorant mind state, which it is the purpose of Buddhist practice
to see through, to experience directly the basic realities of existence.

Sorry if this sounds too preachy...

Richard

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: dccarr@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (david.c.carr)
Subject: Re: ISO: Vegetarian Martial Artists
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 13:31:29 GMT

From article <60978@mimsy.umd.edu>, by tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)):
> 
>      Are there any other vegetarian martial artists out there? A friend
> of mine at the dojo, who's a vegan and a rather slender fellow, is
> training for his black belt, and all the instructors are pressuring him
> to bulk up. Any training advice is appreciated. (Especially since it'll
> make it easier when my turn comes!)

I've been OL-vegetarian for many years now.
Started training many years further back when I was a carnivore -
my change in diet made absolutely no difference in how I trained.

Want to be more specific about what you're looking for?


Dave Carr
isshin shorinji ryu okinawa te
ronin, wa bun bushi no michi
"Don't push the river, but don't pull no punches."
david.c.carr@att.com
Xref: sparky rec.food.veg:9433 rec.food.cooking:17577 sci.med.nutrition:808
From: shc@rabbit.physiol.unimelb.edu.au (Stephen Cody)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,rec.food.cooking,sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Searching for Menu/Nutritional Planning Software
Date: 8 Oct 92 03:06:41 GMT
Followup-To: rec.food.veg
Organization: Physiology Department,  The University of Melbourne

In article <1992Oct6.161709.17251@sequent.com> amy@sequent.com (Amy Paschal) writes:
>
>I'm looking for a software package that can be used to plan 
>nutitionally balanced menus. Specifically, I would like one
>that uses the American Diabetes Association exchange system for
>planning the nutrition.

I am also looking for a  software package that can anlyse diets in
some detail ie. amount of carbohydrate, protein, fat as well as specific
nutrients,  etc. and how they compare to RDI. Preferably public domain.

Please post or e-mail me.
                                        __    /
   Stephen H. Cody,                   _/  \__/ \ 
   Department of Physiology,         /          \ 
   University of Melbourne,         /  Australia \ 
   Parkville, Victoria 3052,        \   ____     /
   Australia.                        \_/    \_*_/
                                             __
                                             \/
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: cindy@meshugge.media.mit.edu (Cindy Blank-Edelman)
Subject: Re: Suggestions for wedding reception
Organization: M.I.T. Media Laboratory
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 22:03:47 GMT

Well, it is almost my first wedding anniversary -- but I think I still
remember what food we had at the wedding :-) --

Hors d'oeuvres:

Potato pancakes
Ratatouille "tartlets"
Mini potato knishes
(Can you believe I can't remember the rest? But there are a lot of
options.)

Dinner:

Green salad
Vegetarian lasagna
"Baby" vegetables
Potato

We had wine at the tables, but no other alcohol. (We're not big drinkers.)

Dessert:

Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream Sundae Bar (a big hit)
Generic wedding cake (to please my mom)

We had a little bit of trouble, as our choice of caterers was very
limited -- we wanted a kosher-vegetarian wedding, which left us only
three options in our area.  People tried to encourage us to "at least
have fish!", but we didn't, and everyone said the food was great.

Good luck, and congratulations!

--Cindy Blank-Edelman
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: mwang@sedona.intel.com (Michael Wang)
Subject: Is TVP a complete protein source?
Originator: mwang@sedona
Organization: Intel Corporation
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 00:20:51 GMT


Does anyone know whether TVP (textured vegetable
protein) is a source of all essential amino acids?
And if it isn't, what foods would be complementary?


Mike
From: howard@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegan/Vegetarian Restaurants around Boston?
Date: 8 Oct 92 15:55:27 -0500
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1b1rpeINNdmu@agate.berkeley.edu>, narasim@diva.Berkeley.EDU (Narasimha Bhat) writes:
>  If you know of any Vegan/Vegetarian Restaurants in and around Boston,
> could you please send me mail?
> 
>  Thanks in advance,
> 

The Country Life Vegetarian Buffet at 112 Broad Street in Boston
is quite good. Broad Street runs from State Street near Fanuil Hall
and Government Center to Rhodes Wharf (Boston Harbor). It is about
3 blocks up from Rhodes Wharf. Easiest T station is Green or Blue
Line at Government Center.  From Government Center station walk down
State Street about 3 blocks, turn right on Broad Street, and walk
another 2 blocks. Restaurant is on the left. 

The complete buffet was as I remember around $5.75. It varies every
day, but the day I was there they had a Tofu-Broccoli quiche, some
TVP sticks, rice, coucous, a complete salad bar, bread, soup, and 
drinks all included. You can also get just salad bar for less. It
is a nice place with about 30 tables and good conversation. I stopped
in with my mother while I was home and she even liked it!


Have fun in my home town.

-Mary Howard



Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY)
Subject: Re: where food comes *from* (was: What's wrong with free-range eggs)
Organization: Glassboro State College, Glassboro, NJ
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 17:15:27 GMT


>>refuse to eat chicken when she learned this. The father of the small boy
>>you describe above probably thought the same thing - that bacon comes from
>>pigs - but not that bacon *is* pigs. I was horrified as a child to learn
>>that we killed these warm furry (or feathery) things to eat. 

i think that if you want to eat it, you ought to be able to kill it. if you 
can't wack it over the head and skin it and gut it, then you've got no right 
pretending that none of this happened.

just my 2 cents


kc
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: coleman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michele Coleman)
Subject: Re: Does any other vegi or vega feel weak all the time?
Keywords: hungary, weak, inenergetic, no appetite
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 22:19:09 GMT

In article <92Oct7.131911edt.117@orasis.vis.toronto.edu> vlee@vis.toronto.edu (Victor Yuencheng Lee) writes:
>I also feel inenergetic, and easily-tired 
>more and more easily.
>
>All other vegi I know in this school look "thin", or "weak"
>from some one else's point of view.
>
>Are you also thin? also easily tired?

    I don't have any advice to offer, but I do know that this is not
a necessary result of being vegetarian.  I am not thin, and I do not
tire easily.  While I occasionally eat milk, eggs, or cheese, many days
I eat no animal products.  Otherwise, I eat a moderate amount of fat
(neither extra-high nor extra-low).  I do take a multivitamin a few
times a week (on advice of physician, for cause unrelated to vegetarianism).
I eat lots of grain, especially whole grain bread and cereal, and
also fruit, vegetables, and beans in smaller amounts.
    I don't know what the magic formula is, but I usually feel alert
and vigorous.  Generally I only feel weak when I have a cold. Even when I
was a sleep-deprived studier, I felt always tired, but not weak.  I
even get colds less frequently now, but since I gave up eating meat
and studying all night during the same year, I don't know what to give
more credit to.
    I'm sorry if this is not more helpful.  I just wanted to go on
record with evidence that not eating meat doesn't destroy your strength
and vigor.

--Michele Coleman
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: adwright@iastate.edu ()
Subject: Re: safe and effective ant=away formula
Keywords: don't wana kill the buggers......
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 12:00:33 GMT

In <1992Oct8.034752.8559@wam.umd.edu> begonias@wam.umd.edu (Jeremy Ritzer) writes:


>I guess this isn't really appropriate, unless you consider eating anst/ants
>	a vegetarian choice, but i was wondering if anybody could help me
>	persuade some ant critters from hanging out on my kitchen counter.
>Any ideas?  Don't wanna buy those nasty things, and don't necessarily wanna 
>	commit wholseale slauhghter........
>Thanks......
>jeremy

Pennyroyal repels ants. But just cuz it comes from a natural source dont
mean it isn't nasty. Wormwood is another good choice.
>-- 
>Popular culture is the art of making do with what the system provides!
>                 Jeremy Ritzer          begonias@wam.umd.edu
>                
>