HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: suffridge@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Rick Suffridge)
Subject: Re: Livingston to LSU?
Organization: NCR MCPD Columbia SC.
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 92 16:20:27 GMT

burgin@hatteras.cs.unc.edu (Robert Burgin) writes:
: In article <Btu02r.I6J@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jwag9429@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (John Wilbur Althauser) writes:
: >  Why LSU? They may not win everything people pick them for, but
: >  #1 high school prospects go in , and they leave as # 1 NBA 
: >  draft picks.   What more could Livingstone want?
: 
: 	Has this happened more than once for LSU?
: 
: 	In fact, was Shaq the # 1 high school prospect when
: 	he entered LSU?  If not, who was?  And where was
: 	Shaq ranked?
: 
: 	--rb

    The #1 rated player according to most scouts that year was Kenny Anderson.
  According to Bob Gibbons' ratings prior to his senior year in high school,
  Shaq was rated #8 (he was also listed at only 6'10"). By the end of that 
  season his stock had risen considerably, such that some scouts even rated
  him higher than Anderson when he started college. The other six players 
  listed above him were Douglas Edwards, Lawrence Funderburke, Deon Thomas,
  Allan Houston, Jimmy Jackson, and Bobby Hurley.	
-- 
Richard D. Suffridge     803-791-6491     |
NCR E&M Columbia- 3500 Module Development | 
<Rick.Suffridge@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>       | 
<...uunet!ncrlnk!ncrcae!rick.suffridge>   | 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J )
Subject: Re: Ohio State - Michigan B-Ball
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 02:16:33 GMT
Keywords: Big Ten Champs

martyp@engin.umich.edu (Martin Pochmara) writes:

>Did you know that Voshon Lenard went to the same high school as Jalen Rose, and
>graduated the same year as him? They were both coached by Perry Watson who is
>now the assistant at Michigan, and he came a nose-hair away from going to
>U of Michigan. His choices were: 1) Go to Michigan and chance being overshadowed
>by the Fab5 (they all had already committed to Michigan before Lenard decided) or
>2) go to Minnesota and become a starter freshmen year. 

>Lenard is an excellant player, and I think he may have a shot at All Big Ten this
>year.

	Didn't Anderson Hunt also go to Southwestern High in Detroit?  If so,
	he would have been a senior when Rose and Lenard were freshmen.

>BTW, Chris Webber, Jalen Rose, and Voshon Lenard all grew up playing basketball
>together. They would have *all* played on the same high school team (Detroit
>SouthWestern), but Webber opted to play for a private school.  

	Actually, Webber's playing for Country Day really wasn't all that
	much his choice.  Webber comes from a family that values education
	a whole lot, so he went to CD for the education.  The hoops were
	secondary.  Webber is an excellent student.  He qualified no problem
	(in fact, I heard his SATs were over 1200) -- and he once said his
	aspirations were to become a writer.  A student/athlete indeed.

	Jazzy J
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  "I am human and I need to be loved,            | Jazzy J                   |
|   just like everybody else does..." - The Smiths| jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sjc@cs.purdue.EDU (Steve Chapin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Ohio State - Michigan B-Ball
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:30:01 GMT
	<Rlj-gw#@engin.umich.edu> <19361@ector.cs.purdue.edu>
	<Cpj-dN_@engin.umich.edu>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University

}} In article <Cpj-dN_@engin.umich.edu> martyp@engin.umich.edu (Martin Pochmara) writes:
}} 
}} Those are the fab five.....now for the depth...
}} 
}} Eric Riley     7'0 back-up center
}} James Voskull  6'7 forward
}} Rob Pelinka    6'6 guard
}} Michael Talley 6'0 guard
}} Rich McIver	6'9 forward


Oh, you mean the same Eric Riley who was consistently outplayed by his
twin brother Craig?  How good was Michigan two years ago when these
guys saw lots of time?  Even Cornelius McNary can play a great game
once every couple of years.

}} Deep enough????

Sure, if you say so.

}} Oh, forgot about the recruits....(BTW, Ohio State has a great class with
}} 4 (I think it was four) top 100 players. But as great as some of them are,
}} they will not make as big of an impact as the fab 5 did!)

I didn't say they would.  And I didn't belittle the fab 5 at all.  I
said there's a big dropoff after that.  Many of UM's backups would be
backups elsewhere.

}} You have insulted me to say that Michigan has no depth. They are very deep,
}} and if you don't believe me, ask the fans from:

O, alas, alackaday, how will I sleep, knowing that I've insulted you?

Let me spell it out for you:  I think that Michigan's starting 5 are
as good as anyone's in the country.  I think that there is a steep
dropoff when you go to the bench, to a bunch of average college
players.  Therefore I don't call them deep.

sjc@cs.purdue.edu               Steve Chapin           Today's Grammar Lesson:
                       Let's hope the usher lets us in.

  "Oh my God!  I shot my eye out!"  (Ralphie Parker, in "A Christmas Story")
From: chill@walt.UUCP (Curtis Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Morte Livingston
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:01:48 GMT





Earlier this year, I told several people:

   I don't know where he [Randy Livingston] is going to school, but I think 
	he's too smart to go to LSU.


I, sadly, was wrong.


Dale Brown should be called the 'Identity Coach'.  Players, skill-wise,
seem unchanged by him between the time they enter and the time they leave.

In recent times:

Chris Jackson:  scoring, no-defense coming in.  Upon leaving:  no change.

Shaq: big, strong, dominating coming in.  Again, no change. (Well, he
did bring in Walton and Jabbar for one-day tutoring sessions during Shaq's
sophomore year.)


A good thing to look at is how many LSU players hang around in pro leagues,
here and in the rest of the world, for years after they graduate.  How
many get into high school, collegiate, or pro coaching?


Schools like Indiana, Duke, North Carolina, Georgetown, etc. produce players
who do fit the above criteria.  To the best of my knowledge, players from
LSU during the Dale Brown era do not.


Randy will be able to play as much as he wants and leave school early to
go pro at LSU.  These were two of his goals.  His relatives will be able
to see him live at home games.  That's nice.  However, by not picking a
school with a coach that instills discipline, defensive skills, and ability
to play effectively within a team system, Randy has severly reduced the
level his game will be at when he turns pro.


The ability to play team defense and knowledge of the game are the two most
unheralded aspects of the pro game.  You don't get that at LSU.



I wish Randy the best of luck.  But, for his sake, I'd rather have seen him
at Duke than LSU.  And, as most of you know, for me that's saying alot.





Curtis Hill
star3!walt!chill@mcnc.org
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: exby@pogo.Colorado.EDU (J. Exby)
Subject: Re: Webber, Rose, Howard: taking money?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 20:25:27 GMT

ash@ulysses.mr.ams.com (Alan Harder) writes:

>In article <1992Sep3.231209.4214@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> exby@pogo.Colorado.EDU (Doc Exby) writes:

>   >as I've said earlier - I am/will forever be dumping on fichigan,
>   >its students (past and present), coaches, teams, ann arbor etc...
>   >because you *do* deserve it.

>Well, well, isn't that *special*.  As a former Michigan student and
>current Ann Arbor resident, I say go ahead, dump.  It won't change the
>fact that Michigan has been, is, and always will be superior
>academically and athletically to Illinois.  Want proof?  Check the
>national rankings in academics and athletics this year.  Have fun.

Thanks, you have just proved my point.  fichigan dolts have such
a complex-  you *must* make the point of your "supremacy" in
everything or else you don't feel good about yourselves.
pathetic.  truly, you and notre dame suffer from the same illness-
 you can't humbly be proud of your affiliation, but must be blowhards
 and scream it to the world.
luckily, outsiders have stopped listening to such rhetoric.  Now
go back amogst yourselves and talk about how "good your
offensive line" is this year.  no one else cares.

wow, there's no mention of basketball in this posting...hmmm..
lemme see.  How about this years big11's predictions?
I can't wait to hear all the loosiers come out screaming about a
big11 title this year.  <yawn>
yeah they'll be in the hunt i suppose...


::j
From: trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu (R.CLOUGH)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Bench Depth
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:49:34 GMT
Reply-To: trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu
Organization: Duke U. Med. Ctr., Durham, NC

In article <BtwtrC.E77@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, dwarner@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (david j warner) writes:
>Laettner had some real boner games last year, and
>were it not for Hurley & Hill stepping up, the Devils might have lost more
>than just those two games last season.  

Laettner was also the backbone of the team, especially when the injuries hit
hard in February.  The team turned to him to take over games, and he responded.
He was a one-man wrecking crew against Tech last year, becoming Matt Geiger's
own personal nightmare.  He had huge three point bombs late in the UCLA and 
LSU games that put them away.  And he was one of the few players who would
take last second pressure shots, much less make them.  However......

>Laettner's loss won't hurt the team this year as much as Hurley's departure 
>will next year.

I agree completely.  Watching the team's offense under Hurley vs Quin Snyder
or Grant Hill is like watching a sportscar against a camel.  Finding someone
who can run the team effectively will be more difficult than finding a super-
scorer. 

>....Tony Lang, and some of the
>frosh will add some D and some spark. I see another Final Four.

Look for Tony Moore to become that Billy King/Brian Davis
superathlete/defender.  Lang will probably try to take some more shots.

>An aside: Is it just me, or is this the first time in many a year that all
>four of last year's Final Four teams have a truly legitimate shot at returning
>the following season?

Does Cincinnati?  They lost some of their better players this year.  Who wins
the Big 10 will have a big impact this year on who goes to the final four.

Robert Clough, DUMC (though certainly not speaking for them)
	"I'm all sixes and sevens and nines."--M.Jagger
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Dwayne Fontana
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:27:14 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Aug28.194316.3705@asuvax.eas.asu.edu>, kennedy@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (Ralph Kennedy) writes:
> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:
> >  This is pretty good - I like the way wild Bill coaches
> > up there in Tempe.  He is at least bringing a little class
> > to what we commonly refer to as "That sewage site outside
> > Phoenix".
> 
>      I take it then, Gary, that we are all to
> take your posting as a lesson in "class"?

 Now did I say that Ralph? Did I say I was going to give you or
anyone else a lesson in class? No - I simply said that it seems 
Wild Bill has brought a touch of class to a once classless, wanna-be,
institution. That's all - no attempts to present my article as classy
just a simple statement of fact - nothing more.


			gln



Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J )
Subject: Re: LSU in the tourney (was: Shaq's impact)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 02:26:57 GMT

matthew@base.cs.ucla.edu (Matthew Merzbacher) writes:
>They went to the NIT in 1970 (I'd *guess* that Pistol Pete was a Senior
>at that time).  There record in that tourney:

	Yep -- this was the Pistol's senior year at LSU.  LSU lost out
	to Kentucky (led by Dan Issel) for the SEC title that year.

>(*) You can ask Dr. J why Kentucky won the SEC Tourney title game over LSU
>(by one point) in 1953, but didn't go to the NCAA tourney.

	As a admitted Kentucky fan, I ought to know this.  Either it's the
	year they were convicted of point shaving -- or it's the year they
	were undefeated and chose not to go to the big dance because Hagan,
	Tsioroupolous, etc were declared ineligible because they were grad
	students.  Could U clear this up, Dr. J?

	Jazzy J
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  "I am human and I need to be loved,            | Jazzy J                   |
|   just like everybody else does..." - The Smiths| jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: billms@eecs.umich.edu (William Mangione-Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Webber, Rose, Howard: taking money?
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:16:49 GMT
	<Fjj-x8@engin.umich.edu> <1992Aug28.005544.17334@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Michigan

In article <1992Aug28.005544.17334@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> exby@pogo.Colorado.EDU (Doc Exby) writes:

   martyp@engin.umich.edu (Martin Pochmara) writes:

   >According to the latest reports, the NCAA is not going to investigate. It
   >was within their regulations. 
   >BTW, it was not Howard that was involved, it was Eric Riley.

   >Thank God it was just someone trying to strat something bad about them...

   oh yes!  thank heavans!  we all know that fichigan would never 
   do *anything* to break ANY ncaa rules don't we?
   yeah right, go ask the um baseball team about rules....


Now *thats* ironic!  An old Illini guy talking about NCAA infractions and
another big-10 team.  Good thing you tried to deflect it toward baseball.
Now have *any* big-10 bball teams been caught for cheating more than UI?  
::j

Oh, and I gotta tell you, that fichigan thing cracks me up every time.  I
can't wait for the turn of the century when you come up with the next
haymaker. 

Bill

--
-------------------------------
	Bill Mangione-Smith
	billms@eecs.umich.edu
From: trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu (R.CLOUGH)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Bench Depth
Date: 30 Aug 92 21:44:40 GMT
Reply-To: trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu
Organization: Duke U. Med. Ctr., Durham, NC

In article <BtpEGo.3HB@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J ) writes:

>	-- Duke doesn't seem to have all that much depth coming into this
>	season.  Sure, 3 starters return (G.Hill, T.Hill, and Hurley) --
>	and a whole host of reserves, but most of the bench players are 
>	going to have to make big steps forwards this season to make any
>	impact (freshmen included).

Something to remember about depth is that old cliche: you can only put five
guys on the floor at a time.  In other words, it's better to have 5 or 6 
great players than 10 or 11 good players.  Jim Valvano said that depth is only
important over the course of a season, not in any specific game.  He said this
in predicting that Duke would beat Michigan, saying that Michigan's advantage
in depth was insignificant in that one game.
  Duke also has a recent history of giving most of its playing time to maybe
six players (the 90-91 season being an exception).  But in later years, those
five or six players who don't get that much time, or who are given limited
roles, go on to become significant contributors.  Examples are Billy King,
Kevin Strickland, Brian Davis and Antonio Lang.  So of next year's bench,
expect one or two players (possibly Tony Moore or Kenny Blakeney) to really
step up and do some important dirty work.

Robert Clough, DUMC (though certainly not speaking for them)
	"I'm all sixes and sevens and nines."--M.Jagger
From: steve@novaeng.wayne.edu (Steve Phillips)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Webber, Rose, Howard:  taking money?
Keywords: Investigation to Michigan Basketball
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:03:05 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Engineering Computer Center

In article <SAj-aP-@engin.umich.edu>, martyp@engin.umich.edu (Martin Pochmara) writes:
|> It was reported last night that University of Michigan's
|> Chris Webber, Jalen Rose, and Juwan Howard took money from
|> an appearance they had made in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
|> The amount was $300 by each individual, which according to
|> the report was reimbursement funds for the appearance. The
|> report I saw mentioned that this is within NCAA regulations,
|> but other reports have mentioned that it is being looked
|> at seriously by the NCAA and could result in a suspension
|> for the three players.
|> 
|> One other note: One of the reports I saw mentioned the
|> thrid player was back-up center Eric Riley, and not
|> Juwan Howard. I don't know which one it was....
|> 
|> Anyone out there with more news on this?
|> 
|> 
|> 				Marty

From what I've heard today on Detroit radio, it's not such a big deal.

College athletes are allowed to receive "just" compensation for such an
appearance, and since it was in Grand Rapids, it wasn't like it was
around the block.  If these guys can get 20 million people to watch them
on television during the Final Four, and pull in all kinds of money for
the school, I think this is a non-issue.  From the first reports, it appears
that the NCAA doesn't even want to bother setting up an investigation.

It was Eric Riley, according to what I heard.

Steve (U-M '92)
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Steve Phillips                               Engineering Computer Center |
|System Administrator                         College of Engineering      |
|Supervisor, Macintosh Group                  Wayne State University      |
|Internet: steve@nova.eng.wayne.edu           5050 Anthony Wayne Drive    |
|Phone: (313) 577-1812                        Detroit, Michigan 48202     |
|FAX #: (313) 577-5969                        U.S.A.                      |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: ellis@strawberry.cis.ohio-state.edu (steven lawrence ellis)
Subject: Re: Ohio State - Michigan B-Ball
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:04:23 GMT

In article <BVh-FQ_@engin.umich.edu> martyp@engin.umich.edu (Martin Pochmara) writes:
>I was down on Ohio State's Campus this past weekend. and I went into
>a bar (don't remember which one? ;)  ) but somehow I managed to
>wear my:
>
>			Michigan Basketball
>			Champions      1993
>			We'll  Be  Back!!!!
>
>Tee-Shirt! Got lots of looks....great conversation piece. Most
>people did the double take, so I just walked around and pointed
>at the three on the shirt......basically I was just saying,
>"Nope, no misprint here...they meant to put a three on it!"
>
Sounds like you'll have a new rag to wipe the snow off your car in frigid
(both kinds of frigid) Ann Arbor come next march!

Stv
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: grubin@virga.ucar.edu (Rick Grubin)
Subject: Winter parks (was: Re: Want : KU Jayhawks Schedule!)
Keywords: snow
Organization: Research Applications Program/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:48:46 GMT


ortcm@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (thomas.mcguigan) writes:
>To amplify - Winter Park is right outside Orlando.

Oh no, then what's that place I've been taking the ski train
to or driving over Berthoud Pass to, with my skis in tow?
You know, right near Fraser, "America's Icebox".

Oops, sorry, the recent measurable snowfall in August is
making me too anxious.

--
Rick Grubin     grubin@ncar.ucar.edu
From: rws@duke.cs.duke.edu (Ronnie W. Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Test your Final 4 knowledge
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:47:05 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

In article <Bu0Cvq.392@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J ) writes:
>
>	OK -- here's a test for all U netters out there.
>	Name the starting 5 for the NCAA Champions for the last 10
>	years -- and by position.  For example:

I'll try:

Duke 1992:  Laettner-C, Lang-F, G. Hill,F. T.Hill-G, B.Hurley-G (championship
game)
Duke 1991: Laettner-C, Koubek-F,G.Hill,F. T.Hill-G, B. Hurley-G
UNLV 1990: Given
Michigan 1989: Robinson-G, Rice-F, Vaught-C, Mills-F, ??
Kansas 1988: Manning-C, Pritchard-G ?????
Indiana 1987: Alford-G, Smart-G, Garrett-C, ?? ???
Louisville 1986: Ellison-C, Wagner-G, Thompson-F, ??
Villanova 1985: Pickney-F, McClain-G, ?? ?? ??
Georgetown 1984: Ewing -C, Williams - G ?? ?? ??
N.C. State 1983: Bailey -C Charles-F, Wittneburg-G, Lowe-G ??

Well, I knew a little bit.
-- 
Ronnie Smith      East Carolina University      Greenville, NC
   (and still at Duke a little bit)
 INTERNET: rws@cs.duke.edu
The next Duke Invitational,  April 3 - 5, 1993 in New Orleans.
From: rjm1@acpub.duke.edu (ROBERT MACKENNA)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Test your Final 4 knowledge
Date: 4 Sep 92 15:07:24 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

In article <Bu149v.Env@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jdm42241@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Doug Mraz ) writes:
>The only ones I could remeber that were not named were
>Michigan 1989- Mike Griffin, F  North Carolina State 1983-Terry Gannon, G
>Villanova 1985- Harold Jensen ? F
                                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm afraid I must disagree with my esteemed colleague here; State's
fifth starter in '83 was a senior center with the unlikely name of
Cozell McQueen.  I wonder whatever became of him?

Mr. Gannon, of course, went on to fame and fortune as the "roving
reporter" on Jefferson-Pilot's ACC telecasts.  (He was the sixth man for
State that year, commonly referred to as Terry "The Cannon" Gannon for
his remarkable range.)

- Rob
From: trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu (R.CLOUGH)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Livingston to LSU?
Date: 30 Aug 92 21:34:09 GMT
Reply-To: trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu
Organization: Duke U. Med. Ctr., Durham, NC

In article <1992Aug28.141933.5779@infonode.ingr.com>, nelson@clunker.b21.ingr.com (nelson jordan) writes:
>>Not to start a flame war or anything, but why would anyone
>>pass up playing in the ACC to play for Dale Brown?
> On the other hand, why would anyone pass up playing for Dale Brown to play
>in the ACC? 

Well, now it's (semi-)official.  Livingston announced his oral commitment to
LSU.  One of the major factors cited was that he wanted his mother to be able
to see his home games, and staying at LSU enabled him to do that.  He will get
as much playing time as he wants, and Dale Brown will probably allow him to
do whatever he wants on the court.  Hell, from what I've read about this kid,
he'll probably take over coaching himself!  UNC was probably eliminated because
of the presence of Derrick Phelps, and the "freshman only watch" rule that Deano
has.  Duke was taken out when they recruited Jeff Capel and he announced that
he was committing himself verbally.  Livingston said that if they really wanted
him, they wouldn't recruit someone else at his position.  Kentucky has Tony
Delk coming in next year.  Michigan has the backcourt of King & Rose for the
next three years.  LSU is in a high profile conference, he'll be the star,
and he won't have a super-disciplined coach breathing down his neck.  But the
talent he'll have backing him up will be considerably inferior to any of the
other teams.  Plus, he'll be the focus of every team he faces.  Remember 
Georgia Tech with Kenny Anderson, the year after Dennis Scott and Brian Oliver
graduated?  This will be LSU with Randy Livingston.  For approximately the
same length of time, I predict.
  
Robert Clough, DUMC (though certainly not speaking for them)
	"I'm all sixes and sevens and nines."--M.Jagger
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college