HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jbanas@triton.unm.edu (Jim Banas)
Subject: Other states also experiencing influx of Californians
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 20:52:30 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque


There has been some talk recently about the invasion of the Californians
into Oregon.  New Mexico has unfortunately also been experiencing
the same bad effects of their emmigration.  Santa Fe used to be an
excellent town to live in, but after the mid 80's, and especially now,
Californians have taken over.  It is now almost impossible for a native
NMican to buy a house there and try to live.  I have heard that many
of the Californians sell their houses for a good price, and basically
*live* off of their money here in new Mexico.  Of course, housing prices
go up, which means higher property taxes, etc.

It's difficult to understand why a city or state would continue to attract
tourists at a time when we need to solve so many problems we have now.
My home city of Albuquerque is continuing to evolve into an LA.

I would like to know what other states are also experiencing this influx
of Californians?  I'm sure everyone has known about Colorado's problems
with them.  What other states besides NM, CO, and Oregon (and Washington)
are they moving to?

Oregon was an amazing land when I visited there.  I fear it will never
be the same after the population increases.


jim


Jim Banas
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque, NM

Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: gclapp@javelin.sim.es.com (Glenn Clapp)
Subject: Re: Me be a oregoner
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Corp.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:59:12 GMT

In article <1ebia2INNqbs@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU> stansbury-travis@yale.edu (Travis Stansbury) writes:
>Oh come now, Oregon is full of culture - just perhaps not what your
>average yuppy urbanite expects.  For my money, Oregon, culture and all,
>is the best of all worlds - urban (if that is what you want), rural,
>mountains (that's where I'm from), coast, desert, etc., etc.,  Its got
>it all, and if we can manage to keep the Californians from flooding in,
>there is no state that rivals it, IMHO.  
> 

Ah, my home, how I miss it.  It does have everything, except a job I want. :(
Oh well, so it goes.  You're right, we do gotta keep the Californians
out, otherwise, it won't be Oregon anymore, it'll be California.
We have already seen this in Southern Oregon (Ashland-Medford-Grants Pass area).
The Californians are moving up in droves, and paying rediculous prices
for land, pushing up property values and property taxes.  Property taxes
get so high that locals can't aford them anymore, and the only ones who
can are more Californians.  Locals get pushed out, Californians replace them,
and you have California.  What used to be a really nice place, (small-townish,
yet big enough to not be too boring) is now So-Cal hustle and bustle,
no one knows anyone (or wants to anymore).  It is interesting to note,
that the Californians move to Oregon to escape "California" type problems,
and then the first thing they do is get active politically and socially
to "help" us Oregonians "get into the 20th century" by making Oregon
as close to what they left as possible. Go figure.  They make it what
they tried to escape, and they blame US!  Damn busy-body weenies.

Glenn
(Utahan by circumstance, Oregonian by nature).

-- 
=============================================================================
= Glenn Clapp                          |  gclapp@thunder.sim.es.com         =
= Evans and Sutherland Computer Corp.  |  My opinions are my own, but then  =
= Salt Lake City, Utah  (801) 582-5847 |  that's my opinion.                =
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: geddy@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scott Schaefer)
Subject: Tigard High
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 05:29:27 GMT


Any Tigard High alums out there?
From: lee@turbo4.rsg.hac.com (C. Lee)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Thanks
Date: 19 Nov 92 02:37:52 GMT
Organization: Hughes Transportation Simulation Center; Culver City, CA

There doesn't seem to be an "alt.culture.washington-state".  How did
"alt.culture.oregon" get started?
From: stansbury-travis@yale.edu (Travis Stansbury)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Why Anti-California?
Date: 18 Nov 1992 02:01:57 -0500
Organization: Yale University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

In article <1ech9dINNpa@agate.berkeley.edu> lindaa@portent.Berkeley.EDU (Linda Absher) writes:
>
>As a transplanted Californian, I'm curious as to why the anti-Californian
>sentiment is so strong in Oregon.  I've read about it often, but have not
>actually experienced this feeling during my visits to Portland (or is 
>Portland akin to San Francisco in that it is not representative of the
>state as a whole?)  

Portland is in no way representative of the state as a whole!  It is a
very small piece of Oregon geographically and culturally, it is just the
large piece population wise.  The anit-california sentiment is really
only half-serious... it is a fear that the continuing droves of retiring
Californians with lots of cash will overrun our beautiful state and
cause all sorts of problems: high property prices due to high purchasing
power of CA money because of high CA prop. values relative to OR prices,
voting down school-funding (retirees w/o kids), overcrowding, higher
crime rates (doubtful), more cars, etc., etc.  I don't think that most
people are completely serious about being anti-CA, but there is some
legitimate fear especially amoung the smaller communities.  
 
>
>By the way, I friend who is a native Oregonian stated to me that the only
>people who get fired up over Californians moving to their state were once
>Californians as well....
>
 
Well, as a native-born and raised Oregonian... :)  

-- 
   ______________________________________________________
   | Travis Stansbury, Yale '94  || 2358 Yale Station   |
   | travis@minerva.cis.yale.edu || New Haven, CT 06520 |
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: tomrice@netcom.com (Tom R. Rice)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Me be a oregoner
Date: 18 Nov 92 00:32:26 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Isn't that s'posed to be "Me be a Orygunner"?


-- 
"Start off every day with a smile and get it over with."  --W.C.Fields
Tom R. Rice   WB6BYH                   Holler Observatory - 
tomrice@netcom.com                     Longitude:  121 d  30 m  20 s W 
CIS: 71160,1122                        Latitude:    37 d  25 m  10 s N
From: reidyj@CS.ORST.EDU (Jay Reidy)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Civil War game (was Re: King's Valley!!)
Date: 23 Nov 92 00:59:52 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: storm.cs.orst.edu


  iI don't know about booze, but during MY undergraduate days, we had
  a WINNING football team!! A first rate track team, a swimming team
  and ressonable tuition.

  Hmmmm.... where have all the flowers gone???
From: parkerg@osshe.edu (Greg Parker)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Rogue Valley...
Keywords: Medford, Ashland, Central Point, Rogue Valley
Date: 23 Nov 92 17:16:15 GMT
Organization: Oregon State System of Higher Education
NNTP-Posting-Host: osshe.edu

In article <1992Nov21.024058.16200@nevada.edu> lockheed@nevada.edu (STEVE KIRK) writes:
>The Big Question of the day...
>
>Any hail from the Rogue Valley??  
>Medford/Ashland/Grants Pass
>Talent/Phoenix/Jacksonville/Eagle Pt/Central Pt./White City/Gold Hill/etc
>
>I don't believe that SOSC has an internet link (that's a shame) so I don't
Actually, they do, but not many folks have signed on yet.
>How about the old Heiney Wine commercials from KTMT 93.
Don't remember that (and I was their News Director for several years)1
From: stansbury-travis@yale.edu (Travis Stansbury)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Measure 9 (was Re: Me be a oregoner)
Date: 18 Nov 1992 12:49:44 -0500
Organization: Yale University
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

In article <1992Nov18.125622.5015@cs.cornell.edu> aleta@cs.cornell.edu (Aleta Ricciardi) writes:
>
>that's what i'm curious about.  how'd such a vile thing get so far? 
>so much support?  on the east coast coverage was sporadic, but i'd be 
>interested in understanding the tactics this lon mabon person used in
>hyping measure 9, why these were successful, and - more important - the
>tactics used to defeat it.  it's no secret that he and others of his ilk
>plan to target other states...
>
While this is an unscietific, and undocumented opinion, it is my feeling
form living in Oregon all of my life that there is a large conservative
population living in the state.  I ususally characterize the state as
having a large working rural class who generally support such measures,
along with another more liberal, usually urban, population who would not
support such initiatives.  This dichotomy is what leads to the explosive
politics often seen in the state - spotted owl, OMI, and now Measure
9... I'm from a small logging community of about 3000 people, and having
lived there all my life, I'm not surprised that Measure 9 enjoyed the
amount of support that it did.  A friend told me that the high school
(about 250 students) held a mock election, and that Measure 9 passed
handily!  Many people call these rural people 'rednecks' but I, for
obvious reasons, do not prefer that term :)


-- 
   ______________________________________________________
   | Travis Stansbury, Yale '94  || 2358 Yale Station   |
   | travis@minerva.cis.yale.edu || New Haven, CT 06520 |
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: geddy@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scott Schaefer)
Subject: Re: Me be a oregoner
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 18:25:12 GMT

Wow!  An oregon newsgroup...

I was a bit surprised to see the word 'culture' in the same sentence
as 'oregon' tho.

My youthful days in the greater Tigard area featured neither ballet 
nor opera.

How 'bout those Blazers?

sjs
From: jpaulso1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Justin Gram Paulson)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Measure 9
Date: 19 Nov 92 23:21:40 GMT
Reply-To: jpaulso1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Justin Gram Paulson)
Organization: Swarthmore College

ogg@physics.carleton.ca writes:
> With a little digging around on the net, I got the actual wording of Oregon #9
> (and Colorado #2 for that matter - both appended below.)  Until now, I hadn't
> seen the wording in any newspaper article.  I will admit to being totally
> shocked that such a piece of hate-filled garbage could appear on a ballot in a
> supposedly civilised country.  What's worse - the promoters of #9 clearly tried
> to sell it as preventing *special* rights (i.e. no reverse discrimination.) 
> Well I ain't no lawyer, and I ain't no rocket scientist (tho I am a nuclear
> scientist :-) but even I can figure out that this attempted legislation was
> nothing other than an attempt to call open season on gays and lesbians.  And it
> did so in the scummiest way possible (i.e. the legislation effectively says
> homosexuality=pedophilia=masochism.)

I've lived in Oregon most of my life, and it saddened me a great deal to see
the OCA get 43% of the vote on Measure 9, but at least they lost.  The latest
news I got from home however (I'm temporarily residing in PA) is very good:
the courts are still on the side of tolerance and progressiveness that our
state at least used to be known for.  Just 9 days after the OCA lost Measure
9, the Oregon Court of Appeals overturned "Measure 8" from four years ago,
the OCA's first gay-bashing legislation which rescinded a gubenatorial order
prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation in state employment.
The Court of Appeals' unanimous decision said something to the effect of
"Oregon's Constitution clearly protects free and open expression of sexual
orientation."  Since the state government was not fond of this measure to 
begin with, I can't see them trying to appeal it.  The next logical step is
to take the City of Springfield to court for its anti-gay charter amendment,
something the ACLU plans to do within the next couple of weeks -- and after
the Appeals Court decision on 8 it looks like the Springfield measure doesn't
stand a chance.  :)

There's a fight looming for 1994 of course, since the OCA won't go away 
overnight, but at least we're putting them back to square 1.

>   +-------------------------------------------------------------------+
>   |  Michael Ogg           |  e-mail:    ogg@physics.carleton.ca      |
>   |     currently at:      |      or:    ogg@lns62.tn.cornell.edu     |
>   |  Wilson Lab            |                                          |
>   |  Cornell University    |  voice:     (607) 255-4882               |
>   |  Ithaca, NY 14853      |  fax:       (607) 255-8062               |
>   +-------------------------------------------------------------------+

Justin Paulson
jpaulso1@cc.swarthmore.edu   (Swarthmore, PA)
paulsoj@jacobs.cs.orst.edu   (Corvallis, OR)
From: dockd@CS.ORST.EDU (Dion Dock)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Woodstocks Pizza
Date: 20 Nov 1992 02:29:57 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: storm.cs.orst.edu

Yeah, I saw a Woodstocks in Chico (sp?) CA.  Togo's is a chain too.
-- 
Dion Dock                    __                   __
                             /  )                 /  )        /
dockd@storm.cs.orst.edu     /  / o ______        /  / _____. /_ 
                           /__/_<_(_) / <_      /__/_(_) (__/ <_
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: walter@nova.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de (Walter Obermiller)
Subject: Re: Why Anti-California?
Organization: TAT (Theoretical Astrophysics Tuebingen), U. of Tuebingen, FRG
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 07:18:04 GMT

lindaa@portent.Berkeley.EDU (Linda Absher) writes:

>In article <1egl54INNq8h@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> @prism.cs.orst.edu () writes:
>>
>>Some of the great things about Oregon are being able to go wherever
>>you damn well please in jeans and a sweater.  The epitome of automotive
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hmmm, 
Yup, that true, I always found it amazing that at the Electric Station
in Eugene people in formal evening wear were happily meddling with
folks with holes in their jeans without any perceptible problems. I 
always admired this alot (we sure don't have anything like that here!
[.de]). That is a really amazing aspect of Oregon culture.

walter

walter@mira.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de
former 'part-time' oregonian on loan to UO
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: dpe@inel.gov (Don Palmrose)
Subject: Re: Help wanted.
Organization: INEL EG&G Idaho
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 18:36:53 GMT

I have just subscribed to this newsgroup and think it is great!

Since there is the thread on the correct pronounciations of places in Oregon,
I thought people might find this humorous.

When I lived in Texas and in talking to someone I mentioned that I grew up
in Astoria, Oregon, they would say something like: "Oh, I have heard it is
very scenic state and I would like to go to *Or-e-gone* someday."  I reply:
"Yes *Orygun* is and I miss not living there but I do like living in *Tex-ass*
also."  Note: Texans prefer saying "Tex-us".  Most get the kidding jab I just 
made, but it is interesting some of the looks I get for making a "big deal" 
on how they say Orygun.


Don Palmrose





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From: pauls@css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Wanna Scare Off Californians?
Date: 23 Nov 1992 23:34:48 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan ITD Consulting and Support Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu
Originator: news@stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu

In article <1erfuuINN8ng@agate.berkeley.edu> lindaa@sooth.Berkeley.EDU (Linda Absher) writes:
>Want to frighten off Californians?  Just *tell* them how much rain
>falls in (plug-in name of hometown here!)  

Too bad there are such big chunks of desert in Oregon, or that might work.
Even many of the towns down south east of the Cascades are places with
very little rainfall.  If it rained more, it wouldn't burn so much.


Paul Southworth                    |           ftp ftp.css.itd.umich.edu
(Not speaking for)                 |         Political Archives in /poli
Information Technology Division    |     Writable incoming directory on:
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor  |         redspread.css.itd.umich.edu 

  <Representing myself.  Everything I say is for educational use only.>
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: hemiola@leland.Stanford.EDU (e. shen)
Subject: Help wanted.
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 20:14:18 GMT


how please to pronounce the following word:


                   TUALATIN


e.

ps:  Thank you!  I am not
from Oregon, but Washington.
From: stansbury-travis@yale.edu (Travis Stansbury)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: New thread
Date: 17 Nov 1992 21:34:05 -0500
Organization: Yale University
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

In article <1992Nov17.232135.250@leland.Stanford.EDU> geddy@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scott Schaefer) writes:

>Seems like we've attracted a lot of transplanted Oregonians out there.
>So here's a question:
>
>What do you miss most about the Beaver State?

Let's see: friends, family, trees, mountains, air, water, animals,
unpopulated land, weather (really), nice roads, nice PEOPLE, lack of
crime, lack of pretensions, etc., etc., etc.
>
>For me, it's the relative lack of traffic.  Portland is, of course, much
>busier than it once was, but driving there is a breeze relative to driving
>in California.
>
I still have trouble with the Portland traffic - and now New Haven, New
York, Boston... I can't believe I still have a car!  The freeways in
Oregon are so nice compared to those here - less traffic, newer, and
better maintained.  Of course, I'm from Oakridge, a town with only one
stoplight, so my opinions on traffic in general are likely to be a
little different than most!



-- 
   ______________________________________________________
   | Travis Stansbury, Yale '94  || 2358 Yale Station   |
   | travis@minerva.cis.yale.edu || New Haven, CT 06520 |
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: 880896t@dragon.acadiau.ca (Rod Thurber)
Subject: Oregon is the best (after B.C)
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:25:22 GMT

HEY,
   Great to see this group, I spent a month travelling throughout
Oregon in summer 91.  It was a great time, myself and some friends
took a truck and a tent and covered the coast, Protland, and the 
Gorge.  The people were great, the beer was cheap(compared to Canadian)
the surf was fun.  All in all it was a great experience for all of us.

   I will definitely be making a return trip after I get this 
University stuff over with.  Any places I should hit on my return?
                 
  Thanks to all the people we met, Steph, Z, Kim, lisa et al...

Go Ducks!!!

  Rod

"I am just passing through here on my way to someplace civilized"
Morrissey

Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: wrowe@reed.edu (Wayne S. Rowe)
Subject: The once and future Portland
Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 09:38:48 GMT
Distribution: alt.culture.oregon

There's nothing worse then making airline reservations to return to Portand
and having the ticket agent say:

"Is that Portland, Maine or Portland, OreGONE?"

Humph.

"There is only one REAL Portland, and it's in OreGIN. Remember it."

<grin>

Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: pbray@sloth.Reed.Edu (Peter Bray)
Subject: us vs. them ( was Re: Reed College)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 05:57:36 GMT


Ah well, my fellow Reedie, who I don't know, pulled all the crucial catch  
words and phrases of Reed college.  You may note his somewhat arrogant  
air, don't be too alarmed kids, that is rather common here in this small  
segment of SE portland.  But look at his smooth-flowing ability to  
criticize and analyze using words that, in high school history, your  
teacher would smile at.  That ain't so at Reed.  But ah well.  

> It's good to see things progressing along to maximum potentials of  
jingoistic regionalism...
the true spirit of the conference topic of course.  
> 
> Not to mention the inevitable, "My school is best!"
> 
> And the haughty rejoinder of the far removed.

So anyway I thought I'd carry on in the full cycle of most reed students;  
that is, precicely, when someone says something that insults you, you  
should immediatly assume an uppity air and attack their argument using  
meta-language.  No offense whoevaH you are.  Just bored.  Can't write this  
paper.  

Peter
--
"Art is the Tree of Life; Science is the Tree of Death."
-- W. Blake
From: @prism.cs.orst.edu ()
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Woodstocks Pizza
Date: 20 Nov 1992 01:43:30 GMT
Organization: Oregon State University, Computer Science Dept.
NNTP-Posting-Host: prism.cs.orst.edu

In article <1ehebdINNfh1@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> bosticj@CS.ORST.EDU (Jason Bostick) writes:
>I feel sorry for you Guys...Woodstocks is Great at 10:00 at night.

Believe it or not, Woodstock's was/is a chain.  I remember seeing one
in San Diego near SDSU.

Don't think they had the Suds & Suds next door though.  Ahh, laundry
and a few brewskis.  What a great concept.

Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: indigo@ldgo.columbia.edu (Hiroshi Ogura)
Subject: Re: New thread
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:56:11 GMT


I'm surprised that no one so far has mentioned Powell's, the world's
greatest bookstore (and coffeehouse.)  And I thought that this
newsgroup was called alt.CULTURE.oregon...

What else do I miss about Puddletown?  Lets see...  Henry Weinhard's
Ale, Papa Haydn, Rimsky-Korsakoffee House, gigantic slugs and
earthworms, clean air and wide-open space (especially compared to NYC),
Rhododendron Garden...   Heck, I even miss Reed College, where I did my
time with 1,200 other precocious and emotionally frustrated youths.
-- 
Hiroshi Ogura            | I've got me a fearless heart
indigo@ldgo.columbia.edu | Strong enough to get you through the scary part.
Lamont-Doherty/Columbia U| It's been broken many times before;
Palisades, NY 10964      | A fearless heart just comes back for more!--S.Earle
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: arkoff@lclark.edu (Gary Arkoff)
Subject: Re: Help wanted.
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 21:02:45 GMT

In article <tc#@byu.edu> earlyd@gecko.ee.byu.edu (David Early) writes:
>
>In article <1992Nov17.201418.26999@leland.Stanford.EDU>, hemiola@leland.Stanford.EDU (e. shen) writes:
>>
>>how please to pronounce the following word:
>>
>>
>>                   TUALATIN
>>
>>
>>e.
>>
>>ps:  Thank you!  I am not
>>from Oregon, but Washington.
>
>
>Try this
>
>	TOO-WAL-LA-TON
>
>And say it really fast.  The 'LA' is like
>'Fa-la-la-la-la'
>
>I'm from Lake Oswego
>
>Dave Early

I have always said TOO-WA-LAH-TIN, or TOO-WAH-LAH-TN if I am saying it fast.

I am from Tigard and work in Tualatin.
-- 
I like pork.  Especially pork chops.  *An anymonous student comment made
                                      *on the comment board in the cafeteria
Gary L. Arkoff  arkoff@lclark.edu     *at Lewis and Clark College.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon