From: exukjb@exu.ericsson.se (ken bell)
Newsgroups: talk.philosophy.misc
Subject: Re: free will
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:56:19 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

In article <14910007@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM> ric@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Ric Peregrino) writes:
>From: ric@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Ric Peregrino)
>Subject: Re: free will
>Date: 25 Aug 92 17:28:31 GMT

>In response,,,

>>To say that A is sufficient for B is to say
>>that B can't occur (exist, obtain, etc) without A's existing, occurring,
>>etc. It doesn't mean that A causes B.

>This is not the normal definition of sufficient. I think necessary
>is what you mean here.

>>To say that A is NECESSARY for B is to say
>>that B can't occur (exist, obtain, etc) without A's existing, occurring,
>>etc. It doesn't mean that A causes B.

>Besides that I agree.

>>No no no, no. Prediction doesn't imply foreknowledge.

>This may be my fault for being sloppy. I meant something like:

>1. Free will exists if there is no way to make predictions of human actions
>such that the they always happen to within the uncertainty of the predictions.

>>2 goes through only if it assumed in advance that human agency can be
>>described adequately within the conceptual apparatus of physics, or if the
>>concepts used to describe human purposeful activity (intention, choice, etc)
>>can be given a purely physicalistic interpretation without loss of meaning.

>I don't think you need to assume this because humans are made from the
>elements of the periodic table. If I can predict the positions of these
>elements (see 1. above), then I can tell what the human's actions were.
>Maybe you could complain then that I can't tell you what the human is
>thinking; that's yet another definition of free will. Besides, I was
>offering a definition of free will. There's no going through or not about
>it. How would you precisely define free will and deterministic physics?

>>About 3, the mere absence in the world of strict regularities wouldn't by
>>itself guarantee the existence of free will.

>I agree here. Where's 3?

>>Can anyone help me get my 8/7 free will message, either from a possible archive
>>or from someone who has a copy. Thanks.

>Not here, sorry.

>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ric Peregrino     c/o Hewlett Packard Co.        I represent only myself
>ric@spd.hp.com    1501 Page Mill Rd. Bldg. 5M    Buy low, sell high
>415-857-7526      Palo Alto, CA 94304            Do DC photons exist?
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yep. I definitely messed up that point about sufficient conditions. I'll 
have to rethink what I was trying to say there.
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Kenny Bell                          *        Welcome to Mind Wars
Ericsson Network Systems, Inc       *        Abstract Arts BBS 386-7907
P.O. Box 833875                     *        Severity with oneself is heroism.
Richardson, TX 75083-3875           *        --A.G.Sertillanges (France, 1943)
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Newsgroups: talk.philosophy.misc,sci.logic,cs.logic