Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 18:35:10 EST
From: Andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: NDP "communism?" (was Re: A vote for Reform...)
 <1993Jan10.031508.1286@csi.uottawa.ca> <93010.1355462893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
 <1993Jan10.222143.12528@julian.uwo.ca>

In article <1993Jan10.222143.12528@julian.uwo.ca>, larocqu@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (JOHN
LAROCQUE) says:
>
>In article <93010.1355462893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> Andy
><2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>>There's a difference between what Communists say socialism  isand what
>>socialists say communism is. This is my understanding, Classical marxists
>want
>>the abolition of capitalism and it's replacement with a system run by and for
>>the working class. Socialists want this done through parliament and by
>>democratic evolution, Communists want it done through violent revolution.
>
>Means and ends. Why don't you get off your high horse and admit that they
>both want the same thing but are going about it differently.

The NDP and communists do NOT want the same thing, the latter want to abolish
capitalism, the former want to make it more equitable, there is a world of
difference between wanting to get rid of something and wanting it to work
better. The NDP are social democrats, the communists are revolutionary
abolitionists.

>>The NDP is not in favour of violent revolution and thus are not Communists,
>>further more, the NDP does not call for the aboliton of capitalism but for
>>making capitalism more equitable, thus they are not Marxists and in the
>>Marxist use of the phrase they are not socialists but social democrats.
>
>Social democrats or democratic communists? According to the NDP and their
>ilk in this country, the state is God and individuals mean nothing.

According to whom in the NDP? What have the provincial NDP governments
nationalised in the past two years?

>Making capitalism more equitable - what the f**k is that supposed to mean.

It means trying to end poverty and economic hardship, it means trying
to give people equal opportunity regardless of their economic origins.

>Hard working people who are told that their hard earned money doesn't
>belong to them - it belongs to "society". People who are told that it is
>better to go on welfare than to get a job. People who are harassed and
>thrown in jail for opposing the state.

People who are born into privledge as opposed to people born into poverty,
true, some are able to overcome their origins, but not many.

>
>Communism and socialism both espouse the same ideology - a system that will
>solve all the world's problems. As a guy named Jesus tells us - we will
>always have poor people. And unlike poor people 50 years ago - poor people

Didn't he also say that a rich man has as much chance of going to heaven
as a camel does to pass through the eye of a needle?:)

>today have color tv's, and can spend welfare money on wasteful and anti-
>social activities like buying beer and cigarettes. Poverty on the increase?

and what of their children, how do we give them an equal opportunity to
children of privledge?

>Maybe anti-social activities like single mothers on welfare who get pregnant
>are making the problem worse. That's right - people are to blame for their
>own problems.

and are children to blame for their parents problems?

>
>If we cut taxes by 20% accross the board, we wouldn't need all of this
>social junk. Healthy people wouldn't have to pay for all of those idiots
>in the hospital who smoke a pack a day and are now dying of lung cancer.

and the children of the poor struck with curable ailments would just die
or be permanently disadvantaged.

>That's right. People are to blame for their own problems. And its time
>we stopped bankrolling them. Idiots who have liver problems because they

People are to blame for diabetes or meningitis?Children are to blame for
congenital heart, liver or kidney problems?

>buy a case of beer a week. Let them die. I don't want to pay for these
>idiots. Fat people - make 'em diet or cut off their health care. That

Talk about the state dictating the lives of individuals! Some individualist
you are.

>is right - make them pay. People who care for their health should stop
>bankrolling those people who don't.

I hopeyou never need a transplant, heck, I hope you never get ill.

>
>And guys who get AIDS because they were too stupid not to put a condom on
>their weenie or keep it inside their pants. Let them die. I don't want

AIDS has a long incubation period, many got it before "safe sex" was an
issue.

>to pay for idiots. Punish stupidity - not working people who care for
>their health, who actually earn their own money and can look after
>their families.

Why blame the families if they are not supported, why blame the children for
the misdeeds of their parents?

>
>Maybe the destruction of the universal health care system is a necessity.
>Or maybe a new rule - not that of wealth but that of health. In this
>system idiots have no right to leech off the rest of us. Fat people
>alcoholics and cigarette abusers - watch out. You are costing the system

Systems with universal health care are more productive as adults are less
likely to beeffected by inadequate health care when they were children and
as there are fewer days off due to illness or disease.

>--
>***FEAR*AND*LOATHING**FEAR*AND*LOATHING**FEAR*AND*LOATHING**FEAR*AND*LOATHING*

Arrogance*and*stupidity is more like it

>*
>**  John LaRocque         **   "If you're the new messiah.. I'm going to be
>**
>**  marshall.law@uwo.ca   **   the one to drive in the nails"  MARSHALL LAW
>**
>***FEAR*AND*LOATHING**FEAR*AND*LOATHING**FEAR*AND*LOATHING**FEAR*AND*LOATHING*
>*
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