From: idfriedm@marconi.uwaterloo.ca (id friedman)
Subject: Re: zionism in crisis
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: talk
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 05:37:29 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.1777.23089@channel1> "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:
>To: Karen Lee Givon
>
>After absorbing and thinking about many comments here and in
>email, I have come to the following tentative conclusions:
>
>Jews constitute an ethnic group in both the cultural and
>biological sense. Converts play a minuscule role in Jewish life.
>Judaism is a belief system which reinforces the ethnic character
>of Jews, through its biological symbology and restrictions on
>intermarriage.
>
>Muslims, Christians, and Buddhists do not constitute ethnic
>groups. Islam, Christianity and Buddhism are universalist belief
>systems which direct themselves to the human race at large
>without regard to ethnicity.
>
 Once and for all.. Islam and Judaim are passed ( one thru mother
  and the other thru father) from generation to generation. One can
 convert in and out of them, however. Christainity is the same thing.
 
w

>For instance, despite their ethnic and national differences,
>Irish Catholics, Italian Catholics, and German Catholics can find
>a common ground in their religious symbols.
>
>But how can Judaism provide a common ground between Israel and
>the nations, between Jews and other major ethnic groups, when it
>is centered so strongly on Israel and Jews alone?
>
  
  How can Sweden provide a common ground between Sweden and the nations,
 between Swedes and other major ethnic groups, when it is centered on
 Swedes alone?

>If there are ethnic elements in Islam which I have overlooked,
>please bring them to my attention. Islam does not strike me as
>being primarily ethnocentric in nature.
>
 
   It is as much ( if not more so ) than Judaism.

>In the bookstore the other day I took a glance at Joseph
>Telushkin's Jewish Literacy. He comments on page 625: "It is
>estimated that five to ten thousand non-Jews convert to Judaism
>annually in the United States." Elsewhere he notes that most of
>these conversions are the product of romantic attachments between
>Jews and non-Jews, not strong ideological commitment.
>
>If Judaism is a modern universalistic religion that transcends
>ethnicity, this is clearly not a message that has gotten through
>to the world, as judged by its eagerness to convert.
>
 In the annual who-can-get-the-most-people-to-convert World Series,
 perhaps Judaism has not hit any home runs because

 (1) The conversion process is difficult+long.
 (2) Most people in the U.S are ** biologically ** part of the
     religion of the parents
 (3) Judaism doesn't actively seek recruits like MacDonald's seeks
     patrons.

Wayne, the conversion process isn't a inter-religious contest !!


     

>Combining ethnocentrism with religion with nationalism strikes me
>as a volatile proposition. All three factors can be forces for
>great divisiveness in the world, separately and most assuredly in
>combination. Many of Israel's worsening problems are the product
>of its ideological presuppositions, concepts which perhaps need
>to be rationally examined more than emotionally defended in a
>knee-jerk fashion.

  Thank You for the astute observations.
>---
> ~ OLX 3.01 31-2557 ~ Lilys: In the Presence of Nothing
>--
>Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA
>

Ishay
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