HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anonymous@dartagnan.rutgers.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: RE:Sins-fo-flesh
Date: 31 Jul 92 07:25:10 GMT

A short time ago someone posted to S.R.C with the heading "sins-of-flesh"
and he was asking the group "How do you feel about masturbation?" It so
happens that I am also struggling in this area of my life and I would like
to receive a copy of any e-mail or responses sent to this person. According
to net.etiquette, the way to do this is to e-mail the poster requesting a 
copy of his respones, but my mail bounced. Therefore, I am writing to you
as the second choice requesting that you post a "me too"  regarding this post
to the group, but since this is understandably a private area of life, I would
appreciate it if the post could be anonymous and the responses sent to yourself
or someone else who would be willing to forward the responses in confidence. 
If this is impossible, I am open to suggestions. 

Thanks,

<name omitted>

[I would normally send this request directly to the poster, but it
looks like I can't get to him either.  Of course this probably means
people are going to have found it hard to send him responses, so there
may not be much to do.  While I'm not enthusiastic about doing it, I
am willing to help people who feel the need to preserve anonymity in
situations like this.  (I would not normally allow anonymous postings,
except when the primary contents is personal experience of a sensitive
nature.)  If you want to send me email, I'll forward it.  --clh]
From: conan@durban.berkeley.edu (David Cruz-Uribe)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Into the highways and hedges: A theologian's trek
Date: 24 Jul 92 07:09:26 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Math. Department.

In response to my post questioning the interpretation of the
story of Phillip and the Eunuch there have been two responses,
one on the net and one via e-mail.  The net post called
attention to a passage in Isaiah:

"No eunuch should say, 'Look, I am a dried up tree.'  For
Yahweh says this: 'To the eunuchs who observe my Sabbaths
and choose to do my good pleasure and cling to my covenant,
I shall give them in my name and within my walls a monument
better than sons and daughters; I shall give them an
everlasting name that will never be effaced."
(Isaiah 56: 3-5, New Jerusalem Bible)

A private e-mail post pointed out that the particular 
quotation I was questioning was addressed to an audience that
already knew the scholarly background.  I was referred to
Deuteronomy 23:1 "A man whose testicles have been crushed or
whose male member has been cut off must not be admitted to
the assembly of Yahweh."  (A similar passage in Lv 21:21 
deals with impediments to the priesthood.)  The point being
that Phillip ("the most jewish of the disciples") was
repudiating the Law and extending the Gospel message to a
member of a marginal group lying outside it.  Similar arguments
are built up from other passages in Acts (e.g. Peter and 
Cornelius).

The passage from Isaiah makes this interpretation more
problematical however.  Perhaps of relevance would be how
rabbis in that period reconciled these two conflicting passages.
Does the Talmud (admittedly of a later date) say anything on
this subject?

Yours in Christ,

David Cruz-Uribe, SFO
From: ceb@dbrus.unify.com (Caroline E. Bryan)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Catholics & Faith and Works
Date: 21 Jul 92 07:25:18 GMT
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization

In article <Jul.20.02.22.23.1992.9268@dumas.rutgers.edu> mchung@ee.tamu.edu (Maranatha Chung) writes:
>The verses in James talked about the relationship between work and
>faith. But I think the question is the relationship between salvation
>and work/faith in Catholicism. Does faith alone leads to salvation
>or does faith leads to salvation which requires the evidence of work?

It seems to me that another post has answered this but if OFM allows I'll
give another stab at it.

If you have faith in God, then you love Him with all your heart etc.  Since
you love Him so entirely, you also love His creation, that is, all the people
you come across during your daily routine.  If you see Christ in someone who
suffers, since you love Him in him/her, you will just naturally do what you
can to ease His/his/her suffering.  If for some reason you cannot help phy-
sically (you're bedridden, for instance), then what you do to ease Christ's/
other people's suffering is something you're capable of (donating money,
praying, etc.).

If you love God with all your being, then you will see God in all of the
people you meet and will treat them accordingly.  Then you will feed the
hungry Christ, give the thirsty Christ something to drink, clothe the naked
Christ, give shelter to the homeless Christ, comfort the ill Christ, and
visit the imprisoned Christ.  If you _don't_ love God with all your being,
then it will be easy for you to fight against building shelters for homeless
people in your neighborhood, to ignore appeals for food or helpers from com-
munity pantries, to throw away old clothes instead of donating them to thrift
stores, to shun sufferers from AIDS, and to sneer at people in prison.  God
can read your heart, but even if He couldn't, He could tell by your actions
-- your "works" -- whether you love Him with all your being or not.

And the relationship between faith/works and salvation is in the Gospel -- if
you live in accordance with the way that you claim that you love, Jesus re-
cognizes you; if you claim to love God but despise Him in His creation, Jesus
does not know you.

(Note that nothing in the Gospel says anything about whether the people you
help or don't help deserve help, or that it matters whether they got them-
selves into the trouble they're in or not.  A prostitute (male or female)
with AIDS, a child molester in prison, an old drunk starving and homeless on
the sidewalk, are each the suffering Christ if you really do love God with
all your being.  Jesus Christ is as much in Jeffrey Dahmer as He is in Mother
Teresa.)


Carrie		ceb@rechenau.unify.com	x6244
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|   "I have NOT lost my mind:  it's backed up on tape somewhere."  - Anon.   |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: rgopu@cs.tamu.edu (Rangarathnam Gopu)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Donation to mother Theresa's Missionaries_of_Charity - Info??
Date: 26 Jul 92 20:19:25 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University

I am looking for information on sending some money to Mother Theresa's
Missionaries of Charity. I need the correct name and complete
address of the organization, in whose name the check can be drawn,
along with its US Federal Tax ID number, so that tax exemption can be 
claimed.

Also, I would like to know if money can be transferred from a bank
account in the US directly to the bank account of the organization
in India. If a monthly contribution can be made, if possible with
some form of acknowledgement from the bank at the Indian end, 
that would be most preferable.

Any information in this regard would be appreciated.  I dont subscribe to this
newsgroup, so please send mail to my address below. Thanks.

Internet:   rgopu@cs.tamu.edu
Bitnet:     rgg6360@tamrigel

Gopu
Texas A & M University
--
email: rgopu@cs.tamu.edu
From: aj@hoqax.att.com (Ahmad M Jrad)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Catholics & Faith and Works
Date: 22 Jul 92 06:21:03 GMT
Organization: AT&T

Peace be to you all.

I would like to offer what Muslims believe about faith and works
because I believe that Muhammed and Christ essentially taught the
same thing on this subject. But you be the judge.

The teaching will be easiest to present in a question answer list.
So here goes:

1- Can we earn salvation?
   A- No, salvation is not earned, it is a gift given by God to those
      with whom he is pleased.

2- Can faith alone save?
   A- Yes this is possible in really exceptional cases, and only if
      God be pleased with the given person. A story told by Prophet
      Muhammed says that there lived a wicked man who lived a terrible
      life and did all bad works and no good works. When he was going to
      die he was so afraid that he would be doomed to Hell that he asked his
      children to cut his body into small pieces and scatter them in the
      land and sea (hoping that this would prevent God from resurrecting
      his body). When he met God after his death, God asked him what made
      him do such a crazy thing. The man answered "You know it my Lord,
      that I did it only out of fear of you and your judgement", and God
      found in him a faith strong enough to save him and He gave him the
      gift of salvation. (Do not try this at home? it is not a recommended
      path to salvation, this is a very exceptional case)

3- Can works alone save?
   A- No, under no circumstances can works save without the required
      faith. The only reason people need do works is that these works
      help strengthen their faith such that they may better please God.

4- What must we do so that God might have mercy on us?
   A- In general we must have full faith in God, his oneness, and we
      should obey him and do all we can to please him. This includes
      obeying his commandments and covenants, such as circumcision, 
      not eating pork, and praying, fasting, and giving money to the
      poor, ... as Jesus and Muhammed (Peace be upon both of them)
      taught us to do.

By the way we can not fool God, if we are philanthropic with the intent
of establishing a good reputation with people as a philanthropist, then
our reward will be just that reputation, (such works will be as filthy
rags and will amount to naught in the sight of God). On the other hand
if we are philanthropic only seeking to please God, then these works will
please God as we are taught, and will earn us some reward by God's will.

God bless.
Ahmad
From: rreid@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ralph Reid III)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: thought for the day (7-27)
Date: 28 Jul 92 06:53:55 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico

Monday, July 27:

     I tell you, joy arises among the angels of God over one sinner 
that repents.  <Luke 15: 10>

-- 
Ralph.  N6BNO.
Compuserve - 72250.3521@compuserve.com.  Phone 1-916-345-9155.
lectromail- rreid@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu.
I do not waste time expressing others' opinions!
From: russ@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Homosexuality and the so-called "Christian biblical stance."
Date: 23 Jul 92 06:30:18 GMT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <Jul.22.02.38.24.1992.19133@dumas.rutgers.edu>, GAVIN@phdlab.commerce.ubc.ca (Gavin Chin) writes:

> On a different thread, does anyone know FIRST-HAND of any homosexual
> who, after accepting Christ and becoming a well grounded Christian,
> renounce their homosexuality and become heterosexual?  If you don't
> have any first hand stories, can you please share some from RELIABLE
> sources?  Some people say that homosexuality is genetic, and
> there is nothing that we can do to change that.  I haven't formed
> my own opinion on that but I am a little skeptical.
> 

John Ankerberg did a series of interviews with a gentlemen who was a
practicing homosexual who renounced his homosexuality upon his conversion
to Christ.  These were broadcast on our local Christian TV
station last year (I think).  I can't remember the man's name; maybe
someone else who saw the interviews knows his name and when the
interviews were taped.  At the time of the taping he was married with
at least one child, but unfortunately he died shortly thereafter due
to aids.


Russ Paden
Internet: Russ@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Bitnet: Russ@ukanvax
From: U30993@uicvm.uic.edu (Kimberly Laird)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Dry Bones
Date: 30 Jul 92 07:48:04 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

Hope no one else has mentioned this...  the old spiritual
"Dem Bones" is based on Exekiel's mention of the dry bones.
(as in spiritual wasteland) And the bones are revitalized
by the power of God.


"Dem bones, dem bones, gonna get up and walk around...."
From: ard@cs.bham.ac.uk (Antoni Diller)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Question About Conversion
Date: 24 Jul 92 06:47:32 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, University of Birmingham, UK

In article <Jul.20.02.22.23.1992.9265@dumas.rutgers.edu> NU169273@vm1.nodak.edu writes:
>I'm sorry to interrupt ... but the Bible in NO way declares that baptism
>is to be the Saviour.  One becomes a child of God simply by repenting to God
>the Father and placing all your faith in the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ
>BLOOD payment for all your sins.  God's provides the free gift to whosoever
>will accept it as such....

Well, actually, that's not quite what the Bible says.  To be saved you
need to repent and believe the gospel (good news).  Okay then, what's
the gospel?  It is, succinctly stated, the message that Jesus is the
Christ or Messiah.  (I think it says this in Acts at the end of chapter 5,
NIV translation clearest.)  Next problem, in what sense is Jesus the
Messiah or Christ?  The Jews were expecting a political leader, but clearly
Jesus wasn't one of those.  (They even put the message `King of the Jews'
on the cross; note how many times the phrase `king of the Jews'
appears in the last chapters of all the Gospels; the authors are
stressing his messiahship.)  When I have more time I might spell
out the nature of Jesus's kingship and the regal theory of the
atonement.


Antoni Diller
A.R.Diller@cs.bham.ac.uk
From: mclean@math.tamu.edu (Robert Mclean)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Abortion/Homosexuality have own newsgroups (was Dear Abby Column)
Date: 28 Jul 92 06:52:04 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Dept of Mathematics

I can't think of two better issues for instilling division and animosity
as abortion and homosexuality. Fortunately, they each have their own newsgroups
where you may argue your opinions to your hearts content. Why don't we use
the present newsgroup for finding common ground and understanding?

I am reminded of a quote:

"For every complex problem there is a simple solution ..., and it's wrong."

These issues are very complex. I wish that writers would approach them with
a little more humility. If you do need to write about it, i wish that 
instead of beginning with "God/The Bible/My priest/My pastor tells me that..."
rather one begins: "I don't know, but the way I see it..."

Which is the way I see it!

Robert McLean +++
From: hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Into the highways and hedges
Date: 21 Jul 92 07:49:18 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <Jul.20.02.22.25.1992.9271@dumas.rutgers.edu> hovingh@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (William Hovingh) writes:
>hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes:

>>Jesus also spoke about what we are to do if someone sins against us.  We are
>                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>to the person alone first, and then if he does not repent, take one or two
>>others, if he does not repent them, then we are to take him before the church
>>and let him be as a heathen or a tax collector to us (two not very well liked
>>groups at that time.)  I think we can make application of this passage to
>>many situations, even in the case of sexual sin.
>
>How can I possibly interpret someone's homosexuality as a sin *against me*?
>Sure, if somebody hits on me obnoxiously, it's bad manners, but I really can't
>see the harm (to *me) in someone's engaging in behavior that I'm not a part
>of in any way.

That is why I wrote that I felt we could make an application of this passage to
cases of sexual sin.  This specific passage does not refer to sexual sin,
of course, but I think we can use the same principals of dealing with sin
that are found in this case.  Even if we do not follow this Scripture, the
end result dealing with an unrepentant sexual sinner (or rather the end result
untill he repents) is that the church is to cut off fellowship with the one
who refuses to repent, as we see in I Corinthians 5.  
I think it is better to go to someone alone and offer to pray with them and
if they do not repent then to go with one or two others before we take the
matter before the church.  Don't you agree that that is better and more
in line with what Scripture teaches to go to the brother before we cut off
fellowship with him?

> I have often observed that we (and I include myself)
>condemn most in others what we fear/hate most in ourselves.  
stuff deleted>
(And when I'm in one of those moods, I reflect,
>sardonically, on just what it might mean for someone to put *so* much energy
>into worrying about someone *else's* sexuality.)

If you mean to imply that I have a particular weakness in the area of 
homosexuality, this is not true.  I have more of an inclination to be weak in
the area of lusting after women.  I have at times given in to the tempation
to lust.  Fortunately God is merciful.  A celebate life that is full of lust
is not a holy life even if lust does not manifest in action.  

I also write against abortion at times, but this is not an area of temptation
for me (especially since I am male.)  

Link Hudson.
From: j_glenister@tamar.compserv.utas.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Becoming a Catholic
Date: 29 Jul 92 08:53:37 GMT
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston

Dear newsreaders
I have just made the decisoon to change from Uniting Church (liberal
protestant) to Catholic.  For theological reasons.  I find that the mystical,
contemplative tradition, which is twenty centuries old in the Christian church
is ignored, and even feared, by the Uniting Church.  In fact, some of the
national leaders in the church are firmly against nourishing any sort of
ministry to foster this strand of spiritual experience and expression for its
people.  It seems to me to me a direct denial of Jesus' declaration that the
first and greatest commandment is "to love your God with all your heart, with
all your soul and with all your strength".  The church must have opportunities
for its clergy and its laity to encounter Jesus, God the Father, the Holy
Spirit, in the profound ways that the mystical/contemplative tradition permits. 
Not necessarily for everyone.  But certainly for those who wish to meet God in
that way.  

I have a need for that sort of experience in my church life.  i have been
unable to find it in the Uniting Church, and obviously will be waiting if I
stay.  So I have changed churches!

I would love to talk to others who have done the same.  It would be a privelege
to share your journey to full and intimate meeting with Jesus Christ and His
church.

Peace and grace to all who read this -- and to all who don't.

Jennifer Glenister
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Polygamy in the Bible (was Re: Premarital sex)
Date: 23 Jul 92 05:51:11 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: gmcquary@ingres.com (George F. McQuary)
>Polygamy, monogymy or polyandry being the norm for a society has nothing to
>do with a shortage of one sex or another. Polygamy occurs in societies where
>there is an abundance of resources because polygamy maximizes reproduction
>activity; polyandry occurs in societies that have reached the maximum
>population suppportable for their land and minimizes reproductive activity
>(Eskimo tribes are an example of this situation).

Polygamy does not maximise reproduction activities. It really
is remarkable how whenever this subject comes up, people seem
to assume the balance between the sexes will magically adjust
itself to give every man several wives. Polygamy means most
men won't have wives, and thus will have their reproduction
activity reduced to zero. The argument for monogamy is simply
that given that men and women come in approximately equal
numbers, the best way to organise society is to pair them off
one-with-one.

>Tribal societies as those of the early O.T. rarely engage in full fledged war
>as neither tribe can afford the vast loss of labor that this would ensue.
>Instead, tribal disputes are often settled by a single fight between
>champions (as in the story of David and Goliath), minimizing the loss of
>labor.

The O.T. is full of stories of tribal warfare. There are far
more accounts of battles being fought and hundreds or thousands
being killed than there are of fights between single champions.
Loss of labour was balanced by gain of land.

Matthew Huntbach
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Dry Bones
Date: 29 Jul 92 07:46:13 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Someone posted a while back about where the "dry bones" image
comes from.  Someone else guessed Isaiah.  

It's in Ezekiel, and refers (I think) to how God views Israel's
spirituality:  dried up and dead.  I don't know all the ins and
outs of this, but there's a book out called "Dry Bones" that is
a study of the book of Ezekiel, and I've heard it's good.  I think
God also mentions that he will bring life to those dry bones again.


-- 
===============================================================================
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
"What a waste it is to lose one's mind, or not to have a mind is being very
wasteful.  How true that is."--J. Danforth Quayle to United Negro College Fund
From: mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Dear Abby Column
Date: 26 Jul 92 19:42:00 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

David Cruz-Uribe writes:

>[Dear Abby said] I
>then concluded that a just God could not possibly have given
>life to innocent children only to doom them to death by
>starvation in their infancy.

>In the 3+ years I have been reading s.r.c I have seen this argument a
>half a dozen times in various forms.  All that is missing is the
>traditional final sentence: "Therefore I can't possibly believe in
>(the Christian) God."  In this case, I haven't the vaguest idea what
>to infer.  However I do think it is a shallow response to an equally
>shallow letter, and so it deserves a reply.  Any suggestions?

I think she is trying to say that human beings are in some sense
responsible for the production of children, just as we are for our other
actions, and that therefore we have a responsibility to deal with child
poverty which cannot be pushed off onto "God's Will".

A story I've often heard in this connection is the tale of the man
trapped on the roof of his house by a flood.  A boat came by and offered
to rescue him, but he said "No, God will deliver me."  Another boat, and
then a helicopter, further offered to rescue him as the waters rose, but
he continued to say that God would deliver him.  Presently he drowned,
and found himself at the Pearly Gates.  Angrily, he demanded of God why
he hadn't been saved.  God said:  "What are you talking about?  I sent
you two boats and a helicopter!"

Mary Kuhner mkkuhner@genetics.washington.edu
From: rreid@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ralph Reid III)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: thought for the day (7-24)
Date: 26 Jul 92 19:33:43 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico

Friday, July 24:

     I shall give to peoples the change to a pure language, in order 
for them all to call upon the name of Jehovah, in order to serve him, 
shoulder to shoulder.  <Zephaniah 3: 9>

-- 
Ralph.  N6BNO.
Compuserve - 72250.3521@compuserve.com.  Phone 1-916-345-9155.
lectromail- rreid@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu.
I do not waste time expressing others' opinions!