From: hurvitz@oscar.UUCP (Dennis Hurvitz)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Re: In the "System"
Date: 26 Jan 93 00:25:02 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.223941.14430@ncar.ucar.edu>, elmore@rap.ucar.edu (Kim Elmore) writes:

> >In article <19930119.074022.19@almaden.ibm.com>, martinl@torolab6.VNET.IBM.COM writes:

> 	I gotta disagree with you, Dennis.  I don't have my Fog
> Fighter's ticket yet, but I have plans.  My pilot skills may or may

kool expression. i like that, fog fighters ticket.  :)

> 	This is an issue of utility, not skill.  Certainly, an

this is the crux of the matter. skill,utility, whatever. the limits of
a non ifr pilot are far too narrow. granted, the private pilot can
explore other avenues such as aerobatics, or floats, or gliders, but
even the experienced upside down pilot might not even be able to fly to
competition because there was some cumulus enroute. bummer. what's a
pilot to do ?   *get the ticket*


> airplane's utility is very limited if it and it's pilot aren't
> instrument-capable. 

no doubt. but on the other hand, with an ifr ticket and a lot of luck,
one might even be able to fly a lowly airplane, like say a 152, across
the united states thru the worst of the winter. i've heard it's
possible.  :)

 But, I'd argue that a Sukhoi SU-29 is far more
> "airplane" than, say, a Beech Bonanza from a raw performance
> standpoint whether or not it has an AH or DG.

no contest.

'course i'll bet the bonanza has a stormscope, gps, 4 place stereo
intercom, and possibly even a wet bar...   :)
the su-29 probably has steel construction, and some functioning
avionics. (seems like our fighters always have something broken so i
would imagine russian technology isn't much better).

the su-29 pilot is probably instrument rated.  :)
> 
> 	Flying on the gauges *is* a sub-skill, just as is doing
> rolling 360's, water landings or soaring.

it is *the* sub-skill of piloting.

> 	You make an assertion here, but you don't follow it up with
> any supporting argument.  I don't doubt for an instant that IFR flight
> is useful beyond my wildest imagination or that it isn't a specialized
> skill.  Clearly, successful IFR flight requires superb cockpit
> management and knowledge of procedures along with skill in flying the
> gauges.  How is it significantly greater than this?

then i'm in real trouble. i don't have superb cockpit management skills.
i mean things have their place, more or less. i just keep the enroute
chart, wac and plates handy. i maintain positional awareness. that's it.

i know some of the procedures, and a few of the tricks.

it is much greater than this.

it is putting the whole show together. understanding the weather and the
forcasts, and how both relate to *you*.
it is knowing the capabilities of your equipment.
it is keeping that little moving map inside your head, moving.
it is visualizing the terrain around/below you.
it is visualizing the airport relative to your position, even during
vectors.
it is watching the outside air temp and constantly updating your
fallback position.
it is knowing what type of cloud formation you are flying in and that
the turbulence you are experiencing is exagerated in the goo.
it is knowing when it is safe to press on into the unknown.
it is knowing this or that airport just passed off port side.
it is knowing that the little points on the weather depiction chart
cold front triangles are sharp for a reason.  :)
it is knowing when to sit on the ground.
it is learning that weather looking up from the ground is almost always
worse than the weather up there, looking down. (i said almost always)

> 
> 	I'd think that anyone with a grain of sense would feel
> differently.  *I* certainly wouldn't believe that, after 40 hours of
> dual, that I was ready for approaches to anywhere right down to
> minimums.

agreed. one rule of thumb is 500-600 foot ceilings until you know
you're ready.

> 	I'm not looking for fights here, but the tone of your post
> certainly suggests that pilots lacking an Instrument Rating *are*
> somehow deficient.  They are certainly deficient if plopped into IMC.

and those that really do know me, know that i'm the last one looking to be
flamed. i do enjoy stiring the pot once in awhile though... :)

> They are not, by definition, deficient in good weather.

ah, but they are. try getting into a tca VFR when its busy.
as a seasoned instrument pilot, your initial call sez it all. in one
sentence, you can tell them your exact position, with the info in a
c152/a for podunk.. they'll give you the clearance, for they know you'll
have your act together... you told them alot in those few words..
ifr or *SYSTEM* words or phraseology !

on the other hand, 

"los angeles approach, this is cessna 22pupu"
22pup la center go ahead.
"cessna 22pupu is over, i think hawethorne, and i'd like to go to, ah,
standby,... ah, oh yeah, go to santa monica"

cessna 22pupu, unable just now, avoid the tca, have a nice day.

 
> 
> 					Kim Elmore



dennis hurvitz