HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Sexuality
Date: 11 Jan 93 13:29:57 GMT
Reply-To: dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: clesun.central.sun.com

Jim Bishop writes:

>>I've read that rates as a percentage of population for teen
>>pregnancies are pretty much the same.  

	Rates ARE a percentage of population... that's what the word "rate"
	means.  When the US government says the rate of teen and unwed
	pregnancies is up, it does not mean the number, it means the rate
	per population.


> though
> illegitimacy among black births is now something like 66%, and I wonder how
> much higher it could go-- but the one thing that can't be said is that
> there is less and later sex activity, or that VD rates are lower.  If VD rates
> are lower,  why is the number of AIDS victims at an all time high, when we knew about AIDS 10 years ago?

>>Your final comment is one that makes the rest of your argument totally
>>pointless.  The only protection against AIDS is education.  Part of
>>AIDS education has to include sex education.  

	Your education comment is a slogan, not a thought-out point.  The fact is,
	the public has known the cause and method of spreading of AIDS for the 
	last 8 to 10 years.  The gay community has been acutely aware of it at least
	as long.  Media spots, brochures, events, school-ed, you name it, have
	been rampant.  If education were the "only protection," and if the average
	incubation period for AIDS is around 5 years, we should by now be seeing the
	number of new AIDS cases decline by quite a bit.  I'd like to see any evidence
	that education alone is working... why not phone the CDC in Atlanta?  And
	even if things would be worse without education campaigns, education
	campaigns alone are not stopping things.

	Dave
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: k206027@smog.DKRZ-Hamburg.DE (Bakayaroo Banzai)
Subject: Re: using the bible to advance bigotry
Organization: Deutsches Klimarechenzentrum GmbH, Hamburg
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 09:00:20 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.210528.11351@netcom.com> howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey) writes:
>In article <casivils.726175165@node_508ba> casivils@lescsse.jsc.nasa.gov (craig sivils) writes:
>
>>( I'm not interested in hearing about some other religious book, the argument
>>is -can a moral system exist with out religion and where would it lead-.
>>
>
>Of course it can.  For a start, you might want to try reading some St.
>Thomas Aquinas, starting with his refutation of divine command theory.
>He is about as christian as it gets, and he has a lot of interesting
>things to say.  After that, there are a lot of philosophies based on a
>secular moral or ethical code that you can look at. As to where it
>would lead:
>
>*One doesn't adopt ethics to achieve a goal.  One adopts a
>moral code as a guideline for living.  Christians who follow the bible
>because of where it will lead are essentially brown-nosing God.*
>
Well, I can't think of anyone more appropriate to brown-nose...
That is, unless my boss suddenly develops the ability to send
me to Hell...

*******************************************************************************
*  "Supernatural, perhaps...Baloney, perhaps not" - Bela Lugosi               *
*******************************************************************************
Matt Marchese	    The opinions expressed here are not those of my employer, *
Cray Research  	    my wife, my church, or myself...But they are the opinions *
DKRZ                of Elvis as revealved to me through the medium of my pet  *
Hamburg, Germany    hamster, Lee Harvey Oswald...                             *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh
From: ndasmith@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Noah Smith)
Subject: WHY DOES RUSH MISPRONOUNCE NAMES?
Followup-To: alt.rush-limbaugh
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:46:45 GMT

Regular listeners will notice that Rush likes to say the last names of
Robert Reich and Mario Cuomo differently than most people are used to.  If
anybody knows why he's doing this, let me know at the above address. 
Thanks!
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: entropy@world.std.com (The Entropic one)
Subject: Re: God is intolerant of sin!
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 08:14:12 GMT

In article <dlhanson.27.726175240@nap.amoco.com> dlhanson@nap.amoco.com (David L. Hanson) writes:
>>
>Some forget that God is intolerant of sin; He is a God of love AND
>JUSTICE. More of the Lord Jesus Christ's words follow: 
>
>Mt 7:23 And  then will I  profess unto them,  I never knew  you:  depart
>from me, ye that work iniquity.
                       ^^^^^^^^
No problem here.

>Mt 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within
>ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Applies well to the modern version of those he addressed this statement
to.

[punishments for hypocrisy and iniquity deleted]

So where does Jesus say anything about Homosexuality? 
-- 
------  Linux, Religion, and electronic shopping all in one place!
\    / Repent of Bean eating, MS-DOS, OS/2, and windows NT, no sales man
 \  / will hassle you, no priest will sacrifice you. Free 9600 baud download.
  \/ Call the Virtual World Information Systems BBS at 508-793-9568        
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: Harry Foster <foster@convex.COM>
Subject: Berserk Sex Maniacs (was  Re: Lifestyle Choices)
Originator: foster@magnum.convex.com
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:15:06 GMT
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: foster@convex.COM (Harry Foster)
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:
>
>glen@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Glen Sonnenberg) writes:
>> I saw a show on PBS that showed an example of gang rape in a certain species
>> of whales.  Three whales trap a female and each take turns having sex with
>> her.  Does this mean that we should accept gang rape "because it is seen
>> in nature"?
>
>Yeah, ever see ducks?  Go to your local duck pond in the spring...the males 
>tend to gang up on and nearly drown the females...
>

Fascinating!  One can only conclude that all male heterosexuals are 
berserk sex maniacs unable to control their behavior . . .

-- 
Harry Foster			                            foster@convex.com 
	The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye, the more light 
	you pour upon it, the more it will contract.  
						-Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
Xref: sparky alt.rush-limbaugh:13308 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:11908 alt.politics.clinton:19855 alt.politics.bush:15696 alt.politics.homosexuality:9186
From: krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger)
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Lifestyle Choices (was  Re: Sexuality)
Date: 6 Jan 93 16:30:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson AZ

In article <1993Jan4.141239.22840@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) writes:
>In article <C03vn5.77K@NeoSoft.com> jpsb@NeoSoft.com (Jim Shirreffs) writes:
>>  >Since homosexuality is found in *every* mammalian species, the
>>  >statement that it is a lifestyle choice is scientifically questionable,
>>  >but if it is, so what?  Christianity, meat-eating, and monogamous
>>  >marriage are not dictated by nature--they are all lifestyle choices.
>>  
>> I don't know who wrote this but a lot of folks are taking it at face
>> value, I would like to this statement supported. I for one do not
>> believe it.  *every*  I think not.
>
>I have been unable to locate the file containing the extensive list of
>references, so I went to my local used book store, pulled a half-dozen
>books off the "Animals and Nature" shelf, and found that homsexuality in
>various mammalian species was discussed in Herbert Wendt's THE SEX LIFE
>OF ANIMALS (1965); Susan Michelmore's SEXUAL REPRODUCTION IN HUMANS,
>ANIMALS, AND PLANTS (1965); and Francois Bourleiere's THE NATURAL
>HISTORY OF MAMMALS (1954).  Michelmore cites instances in several
>mammalian species (including such varied species as mice, elephants, and
>dolphins, in answer to one poster's question).  Wendt also refers to the
>large body of study in this area regarding primates in particular done
>by H. C. Bingham, C. R. Carpenter, G. V. Hamilton, A. J. Kempf,
>A. H. Maslow, Robert M. Yerkes, and S. Zuckerman.
>
>Note that this was found simply by checking the half dozen books that
>happened to be in one used book store at a given time.  It would seem as
>though finding further documentation in this area would not be
>particularly difficult, but if I find the more complete file, I will
>certainly post it.
>
>Evelyn C. Leeper  |  +1 908 957 2070  |  att!mtgzy!ecl or  ecl@mtgzy.att.com
>--
>"To make the point [that homosexuals hamper military effectiveness] I'd
>say that you would have to sift through your military history till you
>find an instance in which failure has been attributed to the presence
>of homosexuals on the losing side.  I'm not aware of any such case in
>the past 2500 years, but I'd be interested to hear what you find."
>-Nathan Engle

Dude!  You bit it!  You claimed that homosexuality was found in "EVERY" 
mammalian species, then you give evidence that says things like, "various," 
and "several."  Various and several do not equal every.

Ted

-- 
So the Maples formed a union, and demanded equal rights, "The Oaks are just 
too greedy.  We will make them give us light!"  Now there's no more Oak 
oppression, for they passed a noble law.  And the trees are all kept equal, 
by hatchet, axe and saw.     -  Rush, The Trees
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: fritzs@microsoft.com (Fritz Sands)
Subject: Re: Sexuality
Date: 08 Jan 93 18:28:33 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: usa

In article <1993Jan7.160904.18810@asl.dl.nec.com> dillhoff@aslws01.asl.dl.nec.com (Doug Dillhoff) writes:
| >
| >You stated "opposite effect of what they intend".  Your implication is
| >that sex ed ans drug ed classes are supposed to 
| >cause the students to not use drugs or have sex
| >rather than have the data to make their own decisions.  
| 
| Children in grades 1 - 5 are to young to make these types of decisions
| outside of parental authority.

Facts are facts.  

| >|  They do not say that
| >| drugs are wrong and instruct the teachers to keep their opinions out
| >| of any discussions the children are having.
| >
| >I would not say that "drugs are wrong" either.
| 
| Do you have children? This would change the subject, but, I teach my
| children to respect the law.

I have three children, ranging in age from 10 months to almost 6 years.
We teach our children that we agree with some laws and disagree with 
others; that, sometimes, law-breakers are bad, sometimes good, and
sometimes neither.  The same goes for the police.  This might be a
less "black and white" view of the world than most children get --
well, that's what the world looks like to us.

Our children have heard more Jefferson Airplane and Greatful Dead than
any other type of music (with the possible exception of Celtic folk
music), and Sean (our oldest) has some understanding of the VietNam 
war and its opponents (such as his parents).

| >|  A paraphrase
| >| of the description of LSD is something like: a feeling of euphoria,
| >| a sense of great wisdom and is not habit forming.
| >
| >That matches my experience with LSD.
| 
| Exactly the point I made. In a sense they tell a first grade child
| that LSD is better than candy. They fail to tell them that it can
| cause temporary or even permanent psychological and physical damage.
| Nor does the curricullum tell the child that is against the law.

The fact that the drugs are illegal is a fact and should certainly
be taught.  I'm interested -- what physical damage have you seen from
LSD use?  I'm also unimpressed by the claims of psychological damage
from the use of the drug itself -- although I am sure that a combination
of LSD and a pathological set and setting can cause harm.

No, I don't think it is appropriate for 6 year olds to drop acid, but
lying to them isn't a panacea.

Correct me if I am wrong about this, but I believe that you were, earlier,
complaining that school diversity and sex ed classes were teaching
a moral/ethical stand with which you disagree -- that homosexuality
is morally OK.  Now, you seem to be complaining that sex and drug
ed classes are *not* taking a moral/ethical stand, and are, instead,
teaching facts.  You should make up your mind.

    Fritz

Xref: sparky alt.rush-limbaugh:13672 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:12287 alt.politics.clinton:20108 alt.politics.bush:15822 alt.politics.homosexuality:9377
From: albrigh@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas g albright)
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Sexuality
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:30:14 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1993Jan7.215249.159@galileo.physics.arizona.edu> krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger) writes:
>In article <C0I3J6.4s6@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> albrigh@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas g albright) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan7.155136.18478@asl.dl.nec.com> 
>>dillhoff@aslws01.asl.dl.nec.com (Doug Dillhoff) writes:
>>>
>>>Apparently you still have not gotten the point. Most of the drug and
>>>sex ed. programs in use today have been found to increase the use of
>>>drugs and have increased promiscuity (teen pregnancy, std's). They
>>
>>This is absolutely false!  Everywhere in the world where there is sex
>>education, children postpone the onset of sexual behavior, and then
>>engage in it less often.  STD rates are lowered too.
>>
>>-Tom Albright
>
>Try again!  Just recently, on Rush's show, he chronicled the first, big 
>time school district to fully implement sex-ed (including condom distribution). 
>The pregnancy rates soared!
>
>Where did you hear your claim.
>
>Ted

Actually, it is quite commonly known among sexologists and sex educators
that sex education programs generally result in postponed sex behavior
among adolescents.  By the way, this is not to say that sex ed programs
are all equally good everywhere.  If you do a little library work you will 
find about a dozen supporting studies.  Here are two sources:

Reinisch, J.M.  The Kinsey Institute New Report on Sex.  St. Martin's
     Press, 1990.  Page xx.

Crooks, R., and Baur, K.  Our Sexuality.  Benjamin/Cummings, 1983.  Page 443.

-Tom Albright

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
              If you don't like sex education, try ignorance!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh
From: kellyb@ccsua.ctstateu.edu
Subject: Re: Chelsea's school ...
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:36:45 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.020331.8836@afit.af.mil>, wbralick@afit.af.mil (Will Bralick) writes:
> 
> Well, Miss Chelsea Clinton will avoid going to public school this 
> year by virtue of her parents' money and connections.  As Mr. Limbaugh 
> pointed out today, Gov. Clinton opposes school choice for middle and 
> lower class people, but not members of his own economic class.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- 
> 
> Will Bralick			          Speaking _only_ for myself.
> 
> Standard disclaimers apply.            Void where prohibitted by law.

  Where did you go to school, let me guess, Istitute for Idiots?
  GET A LIFE!
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass)
Subject: Re: Lifestyle Choices and Secular Reasoning
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 12:03:21 GMT


Thomas Jefferson was a Diest.....

Deism.......

Is a religious and philisophic belief.  Deism rejects most conventional forms
of religion, accepting reason as the only guide to truth.  It embraces
the concept of God, however, in the limited sense of a creator, or
first cause, of the physical and moral laws of the universe.  Deists compare 
God's act of creation to that of a watchmaker who builds a 
watch who builds a watch, sets it in motion, and then refuses to 
intervene in it actions.

In America, deist ideas appear in the Declariation of Independence, the 
Preamble to the Constitution, and other documentsof the period.  The ideas
reflect the political influence of the leading American deists of the time:
Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and Thomas Paine.  The Deist concepts
of God underlies such phrases as "In God We Trust" and "we are endowed by the
Creator with inalienable rights."

Just a little info......

Bil Snodgrass III
From: mike@execu.execu.com (Mike McCants)
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Chelsea's school ...
Date: 8 Jan 93 01:18:04 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Comshare, Inc. Austin Development Center

In article Nathan Engle writes:

>    What the Clintons are doing for their daughter is only hypocritical 
>if you accept the initial Rush-thought that Democrats always have to act 
>based solely on symbolism and that not doing so contradicts their stated 
>goals.

(As usual?) You've got it backwards.  Clinton is NOT being criticized
for acting rationally.  Rush never claimed "that Democrats always have
to act based solely on symbolism".   The point is that Clinton is rich
enough to be able to make a choice, but he does not support money
for school vouchers to allow less rich people to make such a choice.

The question is:  would both public and private schools and their
students be better off if money (say $2000) in the form of government
vouchers were avaliable to someone of modest income (say <$30000)
to move their child from a public school to a private one?

Rush does claim that many times Democrats propose actions which
are based on symbolism and are unlikely to achieve the desired
effects.  They say that $80,000 per class is not enough money
to hire competent teachers and maintain discipline and actually
teach students.  But they "ignore" the fact that many private schools
achieve much better results on a similar budget.  Then the question
becomes:  why are private schools more successful?

Rush's claim then becomes: more money for public schools is not
really going to help.  If that is true and that is what Clinton
proposes, then his proposed action is merely symbolic.  If Clinton
really believes that more money won't really help, then that action
becomes hypocritical.
From: steven.fischer@idcbbs.uu.holonet.net (Steven Fischer) 
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Chelsea's school ...
Date: 7 Jan 93 18:59:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: IDC BBS - Alameda, CA - 510-865-7115
Reply-To: steven.fischer@idcbbs.uu.holonet.net (Steven Fischer) 

From:steven.fischer@idcbbs.uu.holonet.net. 

John Trebel (Treble@asc.slb.com) wrote:


JT.  The school crisis will only be solved when parents get INVOLVED in their
JT.  children's education by:
JT.    1. volunteering their time and talent to the school (public or private)
JT.    2. stressing to the children that education is their investment in their
JT.       own futures.  I push my own kids to excel in everything they attempt.
JT.       Do they always excel?  No, but they always try their best.
JT.    3. monitoring the school board activities and decisions, offering their
JT.       suggestions for improvement, and demanding measurable results.
JT.    4. joining their local PTA or PTO and getting active in that
JT.       organization's efforts at improving the conditions for children.

I believe you left out a couple of other  important  solutions  to  the 
school crisis:

     5.  Disband the NEA union.  It has become nothing more than a 
self-serving organization that demands that we spend more and more 
money on a defunct teaching method.

     6.  Return to a curriculum that focuses on reading, mathematics 
and the sciences.  This continued shift towards the non-subjects like 
ethno-centrism, new-age studies and the rest.

     7.  Institute a teacher certification and testing program to weed 
out those that are incompetent.  And do away with the near inablity of 
a school to fire a tenured teacher.  *****MERIT PAY******

You make a good point that parents should be involved in the schools.  
But I have heard many accounts a parents who have taken to task 
teachers for mistakes or wrong behavior and have been all but ignored 
by the teachers and counselors.

---
 . KingQWK 2.00 .6 # 37 . 4 + 6 = 10.  1 + 1 = 10.  3 + 5 = 10.  9 + 7 = 10.                         
                                                             
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger)
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Education Regarding Alternative Family Units (Re: The Analogy Betwixt Gays & Blacks (Re: Children in Same-gender Families))
Date: 6 Jan 93 16:15:30 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson AZ

In article <1i5m83INNpu3@spool.mu.edu> marcr@studsys.mscs.mu.edu (Marc Rassbach) writes:
>In article <1993Jan1.022504.20320@ncsu.edu> dsh@eceyv.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
>>Here we have the classic "Susan Garvin" logic:  pick out an 
>>extremist bogey man from one side of the issue, declare them
>>to be the "leader" or "patron saint" of a mythical "movement",  
>>and then assign their views to anyone who disagrees with
>>Susan Garvin on the issue.  
>
>This is in a newsgroup dedicated to Rush Limbaugh.  As he uses
>this tactic on his shows, why not allow Susan to use Rush's tactic

Obviously you don't listen to Rush's show often enough to pick up the subtle 
difference.  Rush allows the media to choose the leaders for any specific 
agenda.  Much different than choosing the leader himself.

Ted


-- 
So the Maples formed a union, and demanded equal rights, "The Oaks are just 
too greedy.  We will make them give us light!"  Now there's no more Oak 
oppression, for they passed a noble law.  And the trees are all kept equal, 
by hatchet, axe and saw.     -  Rush, The Trees
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.homosexuality