HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ohall@violet.ccit.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: I'm Still Waiting
Date: 18 Dec 92 19:45:13 GMT
Distribution: usa,local
Nntp-Posting-User: ohall

In article <1992Dec18.011506.8117@panix.com>, lkk@panix.com (Larry Kolodney) writes:
> In <1992Dec16.123711.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
> 
>>In article <1992Dec16.050334.3064@panix.com>, lkk@panix.com (Larry Kolodney) writes:
>>> In <1992Dec14.113247.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>I didn't say "More Brutal".  However give me some examples of slavery which
>>>>has been as brutal as U.S. slavery and has continued for the number of years
>>>>that slavery did in this nation.  
>>>>America has still held on to its notion of blacks being inferior.
>>> 
>>>Brazil.  Blacks make up a much larger percentage of the population
>>>there than here, yet whites still dominate the power structures.
>>> 
>>  It was stated in this conference that blacks were imported from Africa
>>  throught the continent of America.
>>  Keeping this in mind.  Why does the U.S. have these big bad Africans who are
>>  unappreciative and always starting riots and civil unrest?  Maybe the U.S.
>>  got the best of the bunch(i.e. intelligence, physical strength, etc.).  
>>  So what more could this nation expect from an intelligent strong African race?
>>  
>>  Too black and too strong!!!
> 
> Huh?  Is this supposed to be a response to my obervation about Brazil?
> 
  You say Brazil since, blacks are the majority and white is the minority, yet
  they(whites) rule.  
  My point was, why isn't there more civil unrest with respect to racism, in
  Brazil if it is so brutal as compared to the U.S.?  Like I stated earlier
  guess the U.S. just got the big bad black ones.  Huh!
  Whatever the case, the only nations that have and are going through civil
  unrest, regarding race, are South Africa, U.S. and Germany.  And all three
  have a long history of RACISM.  U.S.A., being the richest and most powerful, 
  should set an example to be followed.  However, it has encouraged this type
  of behavior on the planet.  One common thread I noticed is who is in power
  in all of these nations.  Could there be some relationship between white and
  racist?  Why is white all over the world and in everybodies business?  I
  thought the purpose was to go to these underdeveloped countries, assist your
  fellow man in developing them and making a better living and then splitting.
  Instead it has become rape your fellow man and take all the goods for our
  peoples own pleasure.                                                       
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: ehigh@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (Egyirba High)
Subject: Re: Advancing the discussion
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:45:16 GMT
From: mcbean@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: What A White Person Learned in College About AfAm Culture
Date: 18 Dec 92 15:41:01 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <37943@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu>, djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A. Johns) writes:
> In article <1992Dec16.013425.2664@athena.mit.edu> solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky) writes:
> 
> # As I mentioned in the previous post, AA is not providing redress
> # BEACUSE of the feedback from increased racism.
> #
> # We are talking here about a racist program that penalizes
> # non-racists, does nothing against the racists that cause
> # discrimination and has no net positive effect on the groups that
> # are supposed to benefit. Where is the merit in this.
> 
> The truth of these assertions is not in the least bit self-evident.
> 
> In the first place, we are probably dealing with an equivocation on
> the word "racist", as evidenced by all the blather in other threads
> about what the word really means.  Some of you seem to be claiming
> that any law that references race is "racist" in the sense of
> discriminatory.  But as has been pointed out to you several times, a
> race-sensitive policy that simply negates discrimination elsewhere is
> hardly discriminatory -- *that* sense of "racist" -- itself.
> 
> In the second place, it's not at all clear that the "racist program
> ... penalizes non-racists", because on the assumptions of the program,
> the places given to "less qualified" blacks would not go to
> non-blacks, but to other blacks.  If there is any real inequity in
> defining the program in terms of race rather than disadvantage, it is
> among blacks -- well-off blacks who accept affirmative action are
> taking places that should go to disadvantaged blacks.
> 
> # The answer is that the level of discrimination WILL NOT DECREASE
> # until AA is removed.
> 
> Again, there is nothing self-evident about this statement.

No, what is self-evident is that Mr. Solinsky hankers for the good old days
when niggers would be given opportunities and places at the whim and fancy of
the good ol' boys, rather than having any sort of anti-discriminatory program
in place

McBean
> 
> David
From: stovall@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Steven Stovall)
Subject: Re: LA disturbance re anti-Denny demonstration
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: 17 Dec 92 00:40:56 GMT

HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:

>Check!
>.
>Am I the only one who noticed that Willie Williams pulled an
>overkill on the corner of Florence and Normandie couple of nights
>ago in LA?
>.

Willie Williams aint fuckin around. Unlike that punk-ass Gates.
What, you wuz expectin them to just let a bunch of bangers re-kindle
another riot behind some bullshit??

>People are apparently still hot under the collar over there.  The
>demonstration for the four guys who beat Denny turned ugly when the
>cops arrived and started to clamp down.  People said it was totally
>unnecessary. Is this correct?

They wuz doing their job. One cop was heard to say, before a local
burger stand was rousted, "Just take 'em. They been done told to leave
a million times, already." People were blocking the intersection, throwing
rocks, and looting, by the time the police action began is my understanding.
As far as I know, most black folks here are backing Williams on this one.

Damian Williams and the "LA 4" are going to have to do some hard time
in the penitentiary, I'm sorry. They fucked over a guy in cold blood
just for being in the wrong time, wrong place. It was *not* the same and
did *not* have the same consequences for the vic as the King beating.
I understand that they wuz kids who got caught up in the moment, but
you got to be responsible for your actions.
_______________________________________________________________________________

steven stovall
stovall@exeter.cs.ucla.edu
(310) 825-7307
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 11:38:22 EST
From: <FKR@psuvm.psu.edu>  Fred Rozenblad
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Black on Black Crime


It's been a while since I've said anything on this.  I kinda got sidetracked
w/ Phil Stromer.  Plus I've been studying for finals- tha latter being of
more importance to me.

But last night, I heard on CNN News that there have been a series of
burglaries of gun shops in the LA area.  The news article continued by saying
that during the riots in the past spring (ala Rodney King decision), a
number of gunshops where broken into.  The police say the number of burglaries
are being done by the street gangs in LA.  The story did not say why the
police think it's the gangs.  But this brings up another point about
Black-on-Black crime.

If the street gangs are breaking into the stores and stealing more guns,
this may bring more crime to that city.  I understand why the police may
have concern, but what the ppl who live in the 'hoods of LA.  They have more
to worry about w/additional guns on the streets.  This may lead to more
drive-bys, more shootings between gangs having their "territorial" disputes,
etc.

I'm wondering if anybody from LA have more insight on these burgalaries.


Fred Rozenblad
FKR@psuvm.psu.edu



Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Ruling Class Tries to Co-Opt Malcol
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 05:02:45 EST
Organization: University of Michigan, Aerospace Engineering
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A75317E9ED03C4FC@sprl-mac2016.sprl.umich.edu>
X-Xxdate: Tue, 15 Dec 92 11:04:41 GMT

In article <1gjgsmINN7sm@morrow.stanford.edu> Gabrielle Daniels,
HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu writes:
>  We now have a black governor and a black woman senator and
>>millions of black college graduates and so on, but also hundreds
>>of thousands of young blacks in prison.  Black identity no longer
>>has a centrifugal force in a racial sense.
>.
>.
>Perhaps, this is why Alan Keyes, black GOP candidate for Barbara
>Mikulski's seat, who paid himself $100,000 clams salary out of his
>campaign funds, could be sniffed out as to how black he actually
>is.
>

Alan Keyes actions probaly has mor to do with how much of a politician he is
than how "black" he is.

Just my $0.04

======================================================================
|Michael F. Kamprath                   | The University of Michigan  |
|  kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu |      Aerospace Engineering  |
|  kamprath@engin.umich.edu            |      Graduate Student       |
======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.discrimination
From: johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall)
Subject: Re: I'm Still Waiting
Date: 14 Dec 92 00:23:06 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: usa,local

In article <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
| In article johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall) says:
| >In article ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
| >| Whites were not the only race to practice slavery, but they are the first   e
| >rac
| >| to my understanding to practice the type of brutal slavery performed in the
| >| U.S.

KRB -- despite our numerous disagreements I respect you.  I think 
you lost sight of the fact I was responding to the above statement.

I do not mean to defend the southern slave system as generous,
kind, or beneficial.  The charge was: american slavery was more
brutal than previous / concurent slave societies.  I disagreed 
*only* with
it characterisation as being 'more brutal' and asked the original
poster to defend his assertion.


|   Oh I see your logic!  As long as another society practiced cruelty on a
| higher scale, then your hands are clean and you are the more benevolent man!
| 

Well, that *is* the point of the article.

|     Well 'thank you masser' for taking such good care of us!  The reason only
| 5% of us arrived is because the majority of us died on route!  

No, only 5% arrived in the US because most went to Jamaica, Haiti,
Cuba, and Brazil where conditions were much worse.


-- 
-------------------------
My comments are my own.  They are independent and unrelated to the
views of my company , relatives or elected representatives.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.discrimination
From: johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall)
Subject: Re: I'm Still Waiting
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:53:17 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: usa,local

In article ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
| In article johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall) writes:
| > In article ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
| > |   One need only look at the current situation of
| > |   the black race in U.S. to be convinced slavery in this nation was and is
| > |   brutal.  

| > As far as the
| > current situation of blacks in the US as an indication of how bad
| > slavery was, would you rather be from the US, from Haiti, or from
| > Uganda?  Blacks may be second class citizens here, but there isn't
| > a country where they have it better.
| 
|   Oh that's a good reason for blacks to put up with the mess in the U.S. that 
|   we put up with because if we lived in Haiti things would be worse.  The

No, that isn't an excuse to put up with what blacks put up here.
That was not my point.  You specifically pointed to the current
situation as evidence of brutality, in a conversation that began
with comparitive brutality.  The fact that other places are far
worse either points to greater brutality there, less brutality
here, or a refutation of your line of arguement linking current
conditions with historical brutality -- take your pick.

|   I want the same rights and privlidges that 
|   every other U.S. citizen is entitled to in this system.  

You should have them, too.

|   In addition, the wealth and success of this nation may 
|   indicate how good of slaves the blacks were in the U.S. 

All the wealth derived from slavery in the US was wiped out
in the Civil War, plus some.  The Jim Crow laws hurt total
american wealth, they didn't increase it.

|   I guess the truth has yet to be revealed since both of our quotes vary so 
|   widely.  

I think they are both reasonably accurate -- I just think your
author is talking about something a little different.

| 
|   What nations, and for how long?  Example please!!!  Enlighten me.

Enuchs were used by the Chinese as late as the early 20th century.
I believe the sultans were using them until well into the late
19th century but I don't know.

The history of castration isn't something I intend to research.
Let Dworkin do it.


-- 
-------------------------
My comments are my own.  They are independent and unrelated to the
views of my company , relatives or elected representatives.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: AA baby
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:50:53 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <Erika_L_Blumberg-121292213943@stiles-kstar-node.net.yale.edu> Erika_L_Blumberg@quickmail.cis.yale (Erika Blumberg) writes:
>Nice distorted oversimplification of Bakke.  He did not get refused
>admission because he was Caucasian; he merely did not get into UC Davis Law
>School, I believe it was, initally, because they had a specific amount of
>slots set aside for minority students and he was not one. 

Can you please explain this distinction?  Bakke was White.  He did not
get in.  The school admitted that if he was Black he would have been
admitted.  Seems to me like he didn't get in because he was the wrong
color - White.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: What's wrong w/ Our Skin Color?
Date: 14 Dec 1992 19:04:18 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <92349.095838FKR@psuvm.psu.edu>,
<FKR@psuvm.psu.edu>  Fred Rozenblad writes:
>
>
>Well I over her some assistance in getting her car started, and the lady
>flatlyrefused me.  She looked at me like my skin had the plague or
>something.  So afterreceiving that vibe from her, I left her alone.  (I
>thought I was being nice by trying to help).  When my wife came back to our
>car, I explain to her want hap- pened; and I asked her if there is something
>wrong w/ black skin.  Anyway, the lady who I offered to help stayed in her
>car trying to get it started.  She did not succeed.  I'm not sure if I would
>have been able to get the car started, butI could have rendered some
>assistance.  Anyway, as we drove off the lot, she found herself going into
>the day care office to try to get some additional help- maybe call a
>mechanic, her husband, etc.
>
>THe situation struck me as funny because one has to wonder was is the
>problem some whites may have w/ AfAms.  I know prejudice is the answer here,
>or some other explanation, but that's immaterial.  What's the problem w/ our
>skin color?
.
.
Brotherman, I think it's because of the color and because you are
male. White women still get strange about that, even if you're well
dressed and with your son. The usual paranoia is, if a black man
accosts you and you're a white woman, you might just get raped or
worse.
.
Audre Lorde wrote once that she saw a half-naked white woman being
chased by a white man who was beating her.  She opened her car door
for the woman to get in, to rescue her.  The woman took one look at
Audre and shouted, "Not you!  Oh, no, not you!" and slammed the door
and ran off.  Last Audre saw of the woman, she was still being
chased by the man and was about to be overtaken...and he had a
weapon.
.
I remember walking behind a white woman who had gone to the same
grocery store as I and she got freaked because I was behind her and
ran to her house as if I was going to jump her any minute.
.
I had to lock my bike and came across two young white girls.  The
older girl had no problem, but the younger one fairly shrieked at me
(wearing a bike helmet and glasses, I must be some monster, right?)
.
Then again, white woman in the parking lot may have thought you were
being sexist...but that's a secondary thought.
.
I had an experience where I was walking to see about an apartment
earlier this year and it was dusk and this brother drove up and
offered me a ride.  I said no, but he took it personally and drove
off in a snit.  Well, I don't get in the car of ANY man I don't
know--young, old, fine or funky-looking.  Period.
.
I think it was because you were black and male.  But it also happens
to black women, too.  Color must be a bitch to white
unconscious folks, seriously.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 09:58:38 EST
From: <FKR@psuvm.psu.edu>  Fred Rozenblad
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: What's wrong w/ Our Skin Color?


A funny experience happened to me today.  As I was taking my son to day care
center this morning, I waited in the car while my wife was taking him in the
bldg when I noticed the car parked adjacent to my car.  It had a white lady
nad her young daughter.  What's so strange here is she was having a problem
starting her car?  It wouldn't kick over.  You know how some car seem to
have starting problems every once in a while.  Her car happened to be a Ford
(I can't remember the make).

Well I over her some assistance in getting her car started, and the lady
flatlyrefused me.  She looked at me like my skin had the plague or
something.  So afterreceiving that vibe from her, I left her alone.  (I
thought I was being nice by trying to help).  When my wife came back to our
car, I explain to her want hap- pened; and I asked her if there is something
wrong w/ black skin.  Anyway, the lady who I offered to help stayed in her
car trying to get it started.  She did not succeed.  I'm not sure if I would
have been able to get the car started, butI could have rendered some
assistance.  Anyway, as we drove off the lot, she found herself going into
the day care office to try to get some additional help- maybe call a
mechanic, her husband, etc.

THe situation struck me as funny because one has to wonder was is the
problem some whites may have w/ AfAms.  I know prejudice is the answer here,
or some other explanation, but that's immaterial.  What's the problem w/ our
skin color?


Fred Rozenblad
FKR@psuvm.psu.edu
From: djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Date: 19 Dec 92 14:19:13 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Florida, Gainesville

In article <1992Dec16.175525.21772@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:

# Let me make a suggestion.  Why don't you and Hubert fight it out
# over whether the problem is slavery or Jim Crow and other
# discrimmination? As soon as the two of you agree, drop me a mail
# note and we can continue this discussion.
#
# Frankly, I'm getting a little tired of one guy saying "The problem
# is slavery", responding to that, and having someone else say "You
# idiot!! What about Jim Crow?!?" and then responding to that and
# having a third person say "How can you ignore slavery?!?!".

Maybe the topic would be easier for you to follow if you tried to look
at the whole situation rather than singling out one small part and
arguing about that.  It really doesn't make much sense to talk about
Jim Crow without talking about slavery, or to talk about today's
discrimination in individual judgments without looking at the legal
discrimination that preceded it, or to talk about college admissions
decisions without talking about the secondary education system on
which they are based.

Too many people here are acting like the blind men with the elephant.

David
From: ray.normandeau@factory.com (Ray Normandeau) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: USDHUD/NYCHA SCANDALS END
Date: 13 Dec 92 20:01:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-8298v.32bis
Reply-To: ray.normandeau@factory.com (Ray Normandeau) 


Some tenants feel that he might have dragged the US Department of
Housing and Urban Development and the New York City Housing Authority
into the mud with singing about federal money going to organized
crime contractors.

Earlier this year the NY Post had disclosed that the US Department of
Housing and Urban Development had directed the New York City Housing
Authority to give a contract to organized crime contractors.

Rumor has it that there are VERY interesting minutes of meetings
floating around town. These minutes name names; contractors, New York
City Housing Authority big shots, US Department of Housing and Urban
Development big shots. Ears burning!

Rumor has it that some New York City Housing Authority employees
involved with money handling are SO upset that they have circulated
open letters complaining about what the employees feel are
improprieties. Now, if this is true, many people at New York City
Housing Authority would already know about this. Has there been
recent quick changes at the NYCHA? Will anyone step forward publicly?

Following a recent Normandeau Newswire posting someone suggested that
Anderson Windows of Brooklyn and Section 8 funding should be looked
into. It was said that Mead Esposito was connected with the firm. But
Queensbridge Houses tenant leaders simply don't have time to
investigate -so many scandals, so little time.

                                 ###

E-Mail Internet: ray.normandeau@factory.com
If your transmission is not acknowledged, it didn't get thru.
                 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: mmrwlm@sn217.uca (Wanda L McCrae)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: What's wrong w/ Our Skin Color?
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:54:38 GMT
Reply-To: mmrwlm@sn217.uca
Organization: General Electric

In article 095838FKR@psuvm.psu.edu, FKR@psuvm.psu.edu () writes:
+THe situation struck me as funny because one has to wonder was is the
+problem some whites may have w/ AfAms.  I know prejudice is the answer here,
+or some other explanation, but that's immaterial.  What's the problem w/ our
+skin color?

Nothing.  It's some people's perceptions of our skin color that is wrong.

---
_______________________________________________
Wanda McCrae - mmrwlm@sn370.utica.ge.com

"A wise old owl sat in an oak.
 The more he heard, the less he spoke.
 The less he spoke, the more he heard.
 Why can't we all be like that wise, old bird?"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american