HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: The illogic of draining levels
From: engf002@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:54:58 +1200
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand

>	I have long since dropped the level draining ability of undead and
>other creatures. Like you, I saw this draining as a *physical* attack, not a
>mental one. However, by taking away levels, the characters lose experience,
>something which is mental. Thus, once again, T$R made a snafu.
>	The way I run things is that for each 'level' drained, the character
>loses one point from Str, Dex, and Con. If the character survives the
>encounter, he will regain one point per day, so it takes 3 days to recover from
>a single drained 'level'. Some undead still have special attacks (for example,
>   ...
Does this not rather tone down the undead encounters?

    A wraith approaches the party.
    Before : "Aaaargh! A wraith! Run for your very lives!"
    Now : "Ho hum. A wraith. What's it going to be? A week of resting?"

Thus taking away the very essence of undead : T E R R O R

This is player terror as well as character terror.

>	The system that T$R has presented for level draining simply does not
>work if you are running a campaign where characters gain about 2-3 levels per
>*year* (of real time). A single creature of less HD than the party can destroy
>a couple years of years of work in just a few rounds.

But you could also apply this argument to any spectacular character 
death - a seventh level character is fireballed and dies = 3 years 
of playing gone. C'est la vie.

IMHO, I think TSR did very well. There is NOTHING that strikes 
fear into a player's heart more than level-draining undead.
And that is the purpose of them, nes pa?

Andrew Earl
--- To err is human, to moo bovine. ---
From: rjr@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Richard J. Resnick)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Site for D&D server
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:27:25 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst

Hello,

I am currently running an internet AD&D campaign, which uses a server that I
acquired from a friend to do most of the work. Originally, we had had the ser-
ver running on an account at Duke. The links were very good there, and the lag
was minimal. But the fellow on whose account we ran the server has packed up
and moved on. Does anyone have an extremely stable site that I could have ac-
cess to in order to keep the server running all the time? (I would use my unix
account, but I seem to be on the "edge" of the net, and the links are very
slow from here.)

I don't have much to offer in return for a site... if you wish to join the
campaign, we could work that out. Thanks in advance.

Richard Resnick
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: spzkny@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES ZAKANY)
Subject: Re: Movement Rates
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: Distance, average, guess, approximations, etc...
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 19 Aug 1992 09:04 EST  

In article <1992Aug18.153900.24704@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
 cwatters@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Coyt D Watters) writes...

Question: daily movement rates for men, mounts, etc...

A general rule I use is one's movement rate in miles per day (twice that on 
roads).  If twelve miles per day over random terrain seems a bit low, 
remember that's twelve miles per day IN THE DESIRED DIRECTION.  I'll let 
PCs travel twice that, but there's a chance of getting lost...

Wagons are pretty useless on anything other than roads and plains.

                                                  James S. Zakany
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Paladins
Date: 17 Aug 92 12:23:33 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@pmax1.cis.pitt.edu

In article <1992Aug16.204249.10357@wam.umd.edu> spanky@next13epsl.wam.umd.edu (Mephistopheles (The Devil)) writes:
>hurt either (really!  I rolled that!  The DM watched!).  Well, I'd like to
>hear about some other Paladins, well played or not, to see if the class is
>really as hard to play as it seems.

	The most (in)famous Paladin I've ever played was the one I played
in my first Ravenloft campaign: Kyrie Ross, the Phoenix Saint of Myrionar.
Capsule background: Parents slaughtered, idolized older brother joins the
famous Saints (Paladins of Myrionar, god of Justice and Vengeance), brother
gets killed investigating, Kyrie finds out that it was the Saints themselves
who killed him (whole order gone bad), and in private swears an oath to 
Myrionar and is accepted by the god as the one who is to cleanse the order.
Since the normal Saints have bird names (Eagle, Condor, Peregrine), she
chooses the name "Phoenix" for "rebirth".
	Phoenix was noted for complete incorruptibility (and boy, did the
GM try; he finally said to me that HE believed that she was incorruptible,
so he gave up on the corruption angle. Phoenix made long inspirational 
speeches (that drove at least one PC absolutely nuts) at the drop of the
hat. Phoenix never failed a fear check. Infected with completely incurable
and corruptive vampirism, she decided to have herself staked out under the
sun in order to burn the corruption from her flesh (at this point a single
minute of sunlight was too much pain for her to bear), and remained 
conscious from sunrise until 3 in the afternoon. The GM decided that THAT
was so psychotic that even the writers of the module hadn't prepared for
that in their plans, gave her a chance to survive. She did.
	Ravenloft could NOT even "gift" her. It tried to get her to do
just ONE thing vaguely evil. It failed.
	Her major weakness was the blinders that her beliefs put on her.
She could not conceive of the possibility that a companion would turn
against her, and was completely shocked when in the end one of her
companions betrayed and tried to kill her. She only escaped THAT one
by luck...


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: pascal@nextasy.physics.mcmaster.ca (Pascal Gaudette)
Subject: Re: Anecdotes... Death... How come?
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:00:57 GMT

In article <4677@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)  
writes:
In article <Bsw9z1.IIn@acsu.buffalo.edu> swann@acsu.buffalo.edu (Stephen Swann)  
writes:
> >In article <4210@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu
> > (Sea Wasp) writes:
> >> The lowest level character death was first. The highest level character
> >>death of mine was 67th.
> 
> >Funny, you never before really struck me as being a munchkin.  Was
> >that a one-off, Monty Haul (or Monty Python) campaign, or do you 
> >have wagonloads of way-better-than-godlike characters?
> 
>  That's not better than godlike. Maybe godlike, though. The Arduin
> level charts don't even STOP until they hit 100...
> 

Perhaps it would be usefull for people who want to discuss their
high level characters to mention
a) The system being played, wether AD&D(1 or 2), D&D or whatever.
b) The average power levels of the campaign in which the characters
   are being played.

These both affect what "high level" exactly means. The sentence
"I played a 67th level character." all by itself strikes me as pretty
meaningless without a context (no offense intended towards Sea Wasp).

Later,
--
Pascal "The Rascal" Gaudette       pascal@nextasy.physics.mcmaster.ca
MacNUG president                      | *NeXTmail encouraged* 
graduate student, McMaster university | Je ne suis pas infaillible.
Physics and astronomy dep.            | Vive le Quebec LIBRE!
From: pentangl@spdcc.com (Scott Moir)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Tarresque - Anyone killed one?
Date: 20 Aug 92 11:15:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug20.111513.10456
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Aug19.234212.19759@leland.Stanford.EDU> tremblay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Marc Tremblay) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.190028.21199@mcs.kent.edu> adray@Chaos.mcs.kent.edu (Adam Dray) writes:
>>In article <u894793.714246199@bruny>, u894793@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Timothy D Little) writes:
>>|> 
>>|> I'm interested in knowing if anyone has ever actually killed a Tarresque in a
>>|> non-Monty Haul campaign.  Any stories?
>>
>>It's a trick question.
>>
>>Tarrasques don't exist in non-MH, non-Munchkin campaigns.
>
>Hmmm, I'm not sure I agree. Granted, I haven't looked at its specs in
>a while... But, I think a cleaver/ressourceful party of reasonable
>level could come up with a clever way of defeating one given adequate
>preparation time. It would be interesting to see. Obviously, they
>wouldn't go head to head with it...

I placed one in a desolate spot in my world just for the sake of placing
the thing. As it turned out, the party ended up going into the area on
thier own. 

They ran into the terrasque and killed it pretty effectively. We discussed
other ways of doing it and actually found a couple of effective ways.

The way they did it was that they engaged it in combat while an illusionist
in the group made a ledge seem further out than it was. The main fighters
deliberately led it onto the ledge (They went out too) and dropped down
into a lake. The terrasque drowned. No little terrasques, and no damage to
regen from.

They also mentioned using a mirror of entrapment to capture one, and kill
it off later by dropping it into a volcano or something. Another suggestion
was to transmute rock to mud under it, then mud to rock and let it starve.

Scott

-- 
Scott Moir / Pentangle / Satyr ______ # "There's really only one requirement 
pentangl@Ursa-Major.spdcc.com  \ \/ / #  for a Prophet, and you've got it."
B4 f t+ w g k+(+) s+ m r p+     \/\/  # "What's that?"
These are my opinions, not SPDCC's    # "A mouth." - 'God' to J.R.'BoB' Dobbs
From: raycole@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Ray Cole)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Kender
Date: 18 Aug 1992 22:11:09 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

Hello, this may be a FAQ and if it is please point me to where I can get the
FAQ list and I'll be happy.  Anyway, I'm currently running a campaign and one
of the players has expressed interest in running a kender; however I don't have
any stats and such on the kender race.  Can anyone tell me where I might find
all the stats and such for kender?  Any and all help will be appreciated.

Ray

-- 
Ray Cole                    |    raycole@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Computer Consultant         |   This space for rent or hire 
Manhattan KS  USA           |         Make an offer
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Paladins
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:24:53 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <9223413.9901@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> fraser@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Fraser Wilson) writes:
>ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes:

>>Yes, but in medieval times, the church *was* the law.  Are you saying
>>that the Inquisition executioners were doing what there god wanted
>>them to do?  

>Perhaps they were ... in any case, I'm sure you wouldn't presume to
>speak for your god, unless you know something we don't.

Well, I was hoping to keep personal religious preferences out of this, but
since you asked....  I would not believe in any god that demanded that
those who didn't believe in Him be tortured/killed/punished-in-any-way.


-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | Sign in a restaurant:
Georgia Institute of Technology  | 
Office of Information Technology |   "We reserve the right to serve refuse to
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |        anyone."
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: jbm@sei.cmu.edu (Jason Mahoney)
Subject: A really neat character!
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 20:43:22 GMT


   I was wondering, does anybody have any ideas for a really neat character?
For example, a quickling theif, or a dark elf necromancer, or perhaps a pixie
magic user? Please stay within the rules for ADnD 2nd edition!!!


 ______   ___  ___  _________          e-mail me at: jbm@sei.cmu.edu
   ----\    / /    /------              aka "Chevy Van Halen"
        \  / /----/              "WAHHHHHHH WHEEEEEEEEEEEEE RAOUUUUUUU WAH WAH
         \/ /    /                WAH WAH WEEeeeee......Yeah!"-Eddie Van Halen
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton)
Subject: Re: The illogic of draining levels
Reply-To: dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:27:30 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.165458.430@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>, engf002@csc.canterbury.ac.nz writes:
|> <comments concerning the fact that undead draining levels is unfair>
|>
|> Does this not rather tone down the undead encounters?
|> 
|>     A wraith approaches the party.
|>     Before : "Aaaargh! A wraith! Run for your very lives!"
|>     Now : "Ho hum. A wraith. What's it going to be? A week of resting?"
|> 
|> Thus taking away the very essence of undead : T E R R O R
|> 
|> This is player terror as well as character terror.
|> 
|> >	The system that T$R has presented for level draining simply does not
|> >work if you are running a campaign where characters gain about 2-3 levels per
|> >*year* (of real time). A single creature of less HD than the party can destroy
|> >a couple years of years of work in just a few rounds.
|> 
|> But you could also apply this argument to any spectacular character 
|> death - a seventh level character is fireballed and dies = 3 years 
|> of playing gone. C'est la vie.
|> 
|> IMHO, I think TSR did very well. There is NOTHING that strikes 
|> fear into a player's heart more than level-draining undead.
|> And that is the purpose of them, nes pa?
|> 
|> Andrew Earl
|> --- To err is human, to moo bovine. ---

I agree with Andrew 100%.  I say : "You see a Dragon/Drow/Other Monster" and for
the most part my players say "Ok, ready for attack/talk/blah blah blah".  The one
time I said : "You see a Vampire", they said "Holly SHIT, run, run, run, fireball,
run, teleport, etc.".  It really added some fun to the game.  Besides, levels can
be restored by High Level Clerics, and it helps in my world (Forgotten Realms) 
that there happens to be a lot of very high level clerics around (of course, 
sometimes this is bad too).

Don
My brain, my thoughts, my words.
Let's pretend that protestants and catholics are friends.
   Northern Pikes
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Paladins
Date: 21 Aug 92 14:59:44 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <5003@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
>In article <66469@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes:

>	This points up the eternal questions of: 1)In a FRP world, IS
>the word of the Church going to divert much from the word of the Deity?
>Why would it? Any cleric who diverted much would just lose his/her
>powers; why should the deity keep giving him/her this power when they
>aren't doing the job right?

That would depend on how much the god is affected by the cleric's "lies".
If it doesn't affect the god, it wouldn't care what the clerics did.  Also,
sometimes the cleric doesn't communicate with his god.  Then what?  More
than likely, he'd make something up.  Unless it contradicts what the
god wants, he might let it go.  I know that *I've* never communicated
with my god before.  Gods don't necessarily play a very active part in
the world.

>	2) What god are you following? A LOT of gods consider themselves
>Good... but if one of your deity's commands is "DEATH to the theif!"
>then so let it be. A paladin of Justice and Vengeance will stalk down
>and kill treacherous dogs who have injured others, while a paladin of
>a god of Peace will always seek to find non-violent solutions.

So who does this paladin worship?  That would have a profound effect on
how he handled the thief, no?

>	3) What *IS* "LG" alignment?

I take it to mean "do what is right".  It means that you always do what
is good, and do it within the law whenever possible.  Obey the law whenever
possible.  But never, ever, do something evil.  Even if that's what the
law demands.  When choosing between good and law, good always wins.

You ever play Ultima IV?  The Avatar, I think, had the best idea of what
was lawful good.


-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | Sign in a restaurant:
Georgia Institute of Technology  | 
Office of Information Technology |   "We reserve the right to serve refuse to
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |        anyone."
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: covin@tartarus.uchicago.edu (David Covin)
Subject: Re: The illogic of draining levels
Organization: University of Chicago Computer Science
	<Bt7Fqs.AHL@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:55:00 GMT

In article <Bt7Fqs.AHL@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> alongley@cape.UWaterloo.ca (Allan Longley) writes:

   You're searching for a PHYSICAL (ie., material) effect of the attack of
   powerful undead.  But, they're attack is also directed toward the spirit of
   a creature (ie., their soul).  If you are "killed" by a vampire you are more
   than dead, your soul is damed!!  Now, how do you go about simulating this
   attack in AD&D, an attack that might not leave a single mark on the victim,
   but has a pronounced effect -- I think that experience point draining is an
   excellent idea.

Well, you could start by keeping the rule that if you're killed by an
undead critter, you will yourself rise as one of them.  That's a
pretty palpable damnation.  If you really want to buy into the
old-old-style-Catholic "virtue is only a token" idea, you could have
hits by a powerful undead critter cause progressive alignment
deterioration as well.  "Well, cleric, you were mauled by a spectre
yesterday-- your soul feels tainted and sick.  Your god refuses to
grant you your highest-level spells."  This would require excellent
roleplaying to really do right, though.

--
David Covin                           covin@despair.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: scm50@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Shaun C Montgomery)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Techonological D&D
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:14:23 GMT
Reply-To: scm50@charon.amdahl.com (Shaun C Montgomery)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Aug12.095834.14499@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au> torban@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Torban Bennett) writes:
>This talk has reminded me of a trilogy of books by T$R
>  "The Dark Sword Trilogy"
>
>If my memory serves me correctly, techno people came across some rift, to the
>magic world.  There was a showdown Magic vs Technology, and Magic lost.
>                          ^^^^^^^^ ie rival forces having a war!
>
>Quite a fun read as I remeber, but then again maybe someone will tell me
>otherwise.
>
>     @;-)
>Torban Bennett         torban@murdoch.edu.au
>Murdoch University,    "Say YES to dice!"
>Western Australia.     "Fudge for fun and fairness."

Yes, I had fun reading the trilogy also, but there were a couple of
reasons that technology 'defeated' magic in this instance.
Firstly, the attack by the users of technology was a complete surprise.
The magic users had no time to prepare.

Next, the magic users had no idea what they were dealing with.  I seem
to remember that they thought the technological tanks were metal
monsters at first.

The magic users also found the use of any kind of tool to be disgusting.
This gave the technology users some 'shock' appeal.

I also believe that the technological attack was initially directed at
the leading city of the magic users during some sort of celebration
to which most of the upper class (i.e., those able to use magic) had
congregated.  Kind of like putting all your eggs in one basket.

I'd like to mention that an additional paperback book (a fourth) was
published and contained a 'complete role playing system' for running
adventures in the world of the darksword and I believe it deals with
magic and technology.  I have the book, but its been gathering dust on
one of my shelves.  Let me look at it and report back as to its contents.

Regards

Shaun
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: marc@cfmu.eurocontrol.be (Marc Philips)
Subject: Rangers and studded leather armors (was Re: Bastard DM From Hell Pt 2)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 08:58:17 GMT
Organization: Eurocontrol - Central Flow Management Unit

In article <1992Aug15.172123.19025@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> cb317@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stephanie J. Kessler) writes:
>I believe
>the  only skills affected are the thieving skills, and I don't
>Move Silently or Hide in Shadows very often as one of the front
>fighters of the party.

There is something else than thieving skills :

Players' Handbook 2nd edition, page 28 :
When wearing studded leather or lighter armor, a ranger can fight
two-handed with no penalty to his attack rolls.

Any character (or is it only fighter type classes?) can fight with
two weapons but they suffer the following penalties to their attack
rolls:
			Penalty with
	DEX	main weapon	secondary weapon
	15-	    -2			 -4
	16	    -1			 -3
	17-18	     0			 -2

As a ranger wearing studded leather you can attack twice per round
(say, once with your dagger and once with your long sword) with no
inconvenience even if your DEX is as low as 13.  Quite an asset
when you're one of the front fighters.

Give it a try, being able to kill an opponent fast can save your
life more surely than a set of Plate Mail +2.

-- 
Marc PHILIPS                    Eurocontrol - Central Flow Management Unit
marc@cfmu.eurocontrol.be        Avenue des Arts 19h
Tel: +32 2 729 33 09            B-1040 BRUXELLES
Fax: +32 2 729 32 16            Belgium
From: bdavis@staccato.cray.com (Brent G Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Multi-Class Hit Points
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:59:57 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Cray Research Inc., Chippewa Falls, WI


   One option to aid multi-class character's hit points
is to round all hit point rolls up.  For example, a
triple class character who rolls a 4 gets 2 (1.333 rounded up)
hp's instead of 1 (1.333 rounded down).  If that's not enough
roll each dice independently, round up and then add them.  This
should give characters an extra hp or two per level.

   The down-side is that this method will give better than
average hp's.  For example, the pathetic character who manages
to roll 3 1's for his hp's is now given 3hp's (.333 rounded up +
.333 rounded up + .333 rounded up) rather than the 1 he/she 
deserved to get.  Before long everyone in the campaign might be
multi-classed since the average hp rolls are better.

   Another method I have seen is to use a smaller sized dice for
hp each time the character hits a higher level.  For example, use a
d8 for a fighter/thief and roll only when the thief level advances
(which hits the next level before the fighter).  This does away with
the division/round-up or round-down dilemna.  This also makes it
simple as far as applying CON bonus, which can be a bit of a grey 
area for multi-class characters.


Brent

   
--
 /  bdavis@romulus.cray.com     Cray Research Inc.    Chippewa Falls, WI  \
(  Just another Engineer/Musician/AD&D'er multiclass with Internet access  )
 \ "I`m a zombie in the a.m., when it's just too early to wake the dead." /