HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism,alt.pagan
Subject: Re: In need of a label...
Date: 24 Jan 93 10:49:25 GMT
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <fYbE737@quack.sac.ca.us> pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) writes:
>In article <1993Jan19.031126.43622@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> 
>jws5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JUSTIN WINSLOW SOLONYNKA) writes:
>>Labels are dangerous when they are given to others without
>>consent.  But I'm having trouble giving _myself_ one.
>
>Why bother? You know who you are, that is the label. Worlds above and
>worlds below, no *one* in the world like you! You are that you are!

So just because there is no one in the world like me, I should avoid
giving people (limited) quantities of information about myself?  Odd.

>>If a person believes that there is a spiritual realm in all
>>humans, a realm he likes to call "god", but does not accept
>>the Judeo-Christian God, what in the world is he?
>
>A person. Ideally an authentic person. Or perhaps Human Being is a
>better label, with emphasis on Being.

Curiouser and curiouser.  What a strange way to respond to what looks
like an honest and serious question.

>Why do we label ourselves?
>
>[...] For fear of individualitity.

I couldn't disagree more strongly with this idea.  I can give myself
oodles of labels which reflect various facts about me, such as my sex,
temperament, hair colour, age, nationality, occupation or attitude
towards various trends in science, philosophy and religion.  All of
this is only in order to tell people something about myself in a word
or two.  Fear of individual[it]ity (which is something I've never
experienced anyway) has nothing to do with it.

-- 
 `D'ye mind tellin me whit the two o ye are gaun oan aboot?' (The Glasgow
Ivan A Derzhanski  (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk; iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu)    Gospel)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,  Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
* Cowan House, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Park Road, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,talk.abortion
From: cookc@aix.rpi.edu (rocker)
Subject: Re: Virginia and Darlene
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:18:50 GMT

nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:

>In <1993Jan20.153338.17996@engage.pko.dec.com> pub@riscee.pko.dec.com (Publius) writes:

>>In article <nyikos.727470791@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>>>
>>>Shouldn't that read either "For Anti-Christ and His Kingdom" or
>>>"for the coming triumph of secularism"?  I have seen no more evidence
>>>that Publius is a Christian than I have that    drieux   is a Christian.

>>Read Matthew 5:22

>Let me guess.  Is this the one that says to beware of wolves in 
>sheep's clothing?

>The one that says not to give to dogs what is holy, or to cast your
>pearls before swine?

Since "Nyikos" seems to be unable to operate a Bible, I'll step in
and give him some help.

	But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will
	be subject to judgement.  Again, anyone who says to his brother
	'Raca' [*] is answerable to the Sanhedrin.  But anyone who says
	'You fool!' will be in danger of the fires of hell.

	-Matthew 5:22 (NIV)

[*] An Aramaic term of contempt

                 -rocker
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek)
Subject: Re: Peace Symbol
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 06:20:05 GMT

haefner@infonode.ingr.com (Mark W. Haefner) writes:


>Recently several articles have been on the ankh and I thought I would
>ask if anyone has information on where the "peace symbol" is derived
>from. I have heard that its origins are occultic and was used by some
>ancient pagan societies. Is this true? If so, who? Anyone care to 
>offer some reliable info?

According to Cecil Adams, the symbol originally stood for nuclear
disarmament.  The lines are a representation of semaphore signals for
"N" and "D".  I have actually seen peace signs drawn with the flags
in place.

Paul Ciszek                      When we are planning for posterity, we
                                 ought to remember that virtue is not
pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu            hereditary.     --Thomas Paine

Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:27612 soc.culture.jewish:26136 alt.atheism:27040
From: system@kalki33.lakes.trenton.sc.us (Kalki Dasa)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Bhagavad-Gita 1.37-38
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 02:10:06 EST
Organization: Kalki's Infoline BBS, Aiken, SC, USA

                              TEXT 37-38

                       yady apy ete na pasyanti
                           lobhopahata-cetasah
                        kula-ksaya-krtam dosam
                         mitra-drohe ca patakam

                       katham na jneyam asmabhih
                         papad asman nivartitum
                        kula-ksaya-krtam dosam
                         prapasyadbhir janardana

  
yadi--if; api--even; ete--they; na--do not; pasyanti--see; lobha--by
greed; upahata--overpowered; cetasah--their hearts; kula-ksaya--in
killing the family; krtam--done; dosam--fault; mitra-drohe--in
quarreling with friends; ca--also; patakam--sinful reactions;
katham--why; na--should not; jneyam--be known; asmabhih--by us;
papat--from sins; asmat--these; nivartitum--to cease; kula-ksaya--in
the destruction of a dynasty; krtam--done; dosam--crime;
prapasyadbhih--by those who can see; janardana--O Krsna.

    
                              TRANSLATION

	O Janardana, although these men, their hearts overtaken by greed,
see no fault in killing one's family or quarreling with friends, why
should we, who can see the crime in destroying a family, engage in
these acts of sin?

  
                                PURPORT

	A ksatriya is not supposed to refuse to battle or gamble when he
is so invited by some rival party. Under such an obligation, Arjuna
could not refuse to fight, because he had been challenged by the party
of Duryodhana. In this connection, Arjuna considered that the other
party might be blind to the effects of such a challenge. Arjuna,
however, could see the evil consequences and could not accept the
challenge. Obligation is actually binding when the effect is good, but
when the effect is otherwise, then no one can be bound. Considering all
these pros and cons, Arjuna decided not to fight.

Bhagavad-Gita As It Is
Books of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami


       ---------------------------------------------------------
      |                Don't forget to chant:                   |
      |                                                         |
      |  Hare Krishna Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare   |
      |       Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama Hare Hare          |
      |                                                         |
      |    Kalki's Infoline BBS Aiken, South Carolina, USA      |
      |           (kalki@kalki33.lakes.trenton.sc.us)           |
       ---------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)
Subject: Re: Christian Pro-Choicers (was Re: An Abortion Argument that has nothing to do with OT and NT)
Organization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:31:08 GMT

In article <C14Azs.Kw3@athena.cs.uga.edu>
hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes:
 
>
>In article <1993Jan18.151446.8005@hsr.no> onar@hsr.no (Onar Aam) writes:
>
>>Anyway, *personally* I think that it's hard to be a good christian without
>>supporting abortion, death assistance and homosexuality.
>
>In your opinion, were Paul and the other apostles not "good Christians."
>
 
So what, Paul is a prototype Fascist if there ever was one.
He talks a lot about love and means rigid, controlled society.
 
It tells a lot about you that he is among your heroes.
 
>Christianity has opposed abortion for centuries.  Abortion is specifically
>condemned inthe 2nd century writings "The Didache."  The New Testament
>says that the body (of a Christian) is the temple of God.  How is that
>compatable with death assistance.  Christians should offer life assistance.
>And the New Testament also speaks against practicing homosexuality.
>
 
Tradition that cannot be traced to your god is not a tradition founded by
your god, get it?
 
Anyway, the case with agape has not been settled.
Ie, the question is open if it refers to sexual practices of
Jesus and his disciples. Note that they were all male at the
end.
 
According to Paul, the two never met. Who knows what would have
happened...
 
 
And I can show you passages in the bible which say that it is better not to be
born, and being aborted counts as being better off, too. (Kohelet)
   Benedikt
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.pagan,alt.folklore.urban
From: joakimr@ifi.uio.no (Joakim Ruud)
Subject: Re: Peace Symbol
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:43:41 GMT
Originator: joakimr@hymir.ifi.uio.no


Okay, let me just make this clear...

The norse runes are divided into two different alphabets, or "Futhark"'s (the
word futhark is derived from the first six characters.)

The original one had 24 characters, among them were two special characters for
the "th"-sound, one for the sound in "the" (called "edd") and one for the
sount in "thought" (called "thorn").
This original futhark came to Germany God knows when and from where (on one of
the famous norwegian runestones there are mesopotamian hieroglyphs...), and
was used by norwegians in the pre-viking period (up to about 700 AD). 

Then the futhark was compressed to 16 characters. It is not clear why this was
done, but on theory goes like this: The runes were never intended to write
messages or literary passages of any sort. They were used exclusively for
magic. So, our ancestors figured; if we combine two or three runes into one,
then obviously each rune must have a stronger magical power !

Whatever the reason, the runes were combined, and they were also changed to
other forms. Incidentally, the "edd" and the "thorn" were kept, so they must
have had some special importance...


	Don't know what you don't know

	Only know what you know

(Why don't I take my own advice...?)

Jokke
Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:27744 talk.origins:16870
From: swf@tools3teradata.com (Stan Friesen)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,talk.origins
Subject: Re: THE MIND OF THE BIBLE BELIEVER
Date: 28 Jan 93 18:18:08 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <1993Jan26.100251.26737@klaava.Helsinki.FI>, cust_ts@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Tero Sand) writes:
|> 
|> So what are you suggesting? Zillions upon zillions of special creations?

Of course the amusing thing is that this was indeed one theory, widely held
by the Catastrophists early in the last century (for instance Cuvier).

Of course when the number of seperate creations required by the data started
to get into the astronomical range pretty much everyone concluded it was
getting silly, and abandoned the idea.

-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism,soc.culture.jewish
From: hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr)
Subject: Re: Christian Pro-Choicers (was Re: An Abortion Argument that has nothing to do with OT and NT)
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 23:10:04 GMT

In article <C1BvE3.FqD@athena.cs.uga.edu> hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes:
>This is certainly no more bogus than.  "Jesus never homosexuality."

Correction:  This is certainly no more bogus than: "Jesus never _mentioned_
homosexuality."  



Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:27450 alt.messianic:4137
From: emarsh@hernes-sun.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Marsh)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Buddhism and the Absolute God
Date: 28 Jan 1993 18:02:10 GMT
Organization: Sun
NNTP-Posting-Host: hernes-sun

This looks like fun...

OK, I'll play.

In article <C1JC5F.4qB@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes:
>Can you make liquid water that is not wet?

I can paint a picture of the ocean.

>Can you exist and not exist at the same time?

If I were to become unconscious, "I" would not exist, yet my
body would exists.

>Can you make a square circle?

Move the circle from 2-D space to 3-D space, and extend it into
the z axis the same amount as its diameter. It is now both a square
and a circle.

>Can you make 2+2=5

Sure - "2+2=5"

>Can you make it rain and not rain in the same place at the same time?

Yes. Enclose the Earth in a big box. It is now raining and not raining
in the same place (the box) at the same time.

>Aren't these logical impossibilities, and therefor not a limitation of power?

Are they impossibilities?

>MAC

How many did I get right?

Eric

Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)
Subject: Re: I feel threatened by Christianity...
Organization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 12:25:38 GMT

karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger) writes:
 
>
>Only some religions.
>
>Not all preach that someone should be cast out as a pariah.  Some, such as
>Sabaeanism, claim that to each person is entitled their choice, and that all
>of us must respect the choices of those around us.
>
>This is not to say that we must >agree< with those choices.  But we must
>respect them.
>
 
I see. What happens if a Sabaean says that not each and every person should be
entitled to their choice? Is this person still a Sabaean? Are the views of this
person still Sabaean? If not, can it be that there is some dogma? Are his
views still respected in a meaningful sense, that means respecting the views
- not just the person?
And assuming that it is still Sabaean, what information does the term hold?
 
 
The ostracising mentioned works better when the religion you belong to is
established or the social framework it provides means something to the
ostracized.
 
>Look beyond the monotheists before you cast all religious paths as being
>filled with dogma and hate.
>
 
And that is a parameter of the number of gods the people believe in?
In other words, the number of gods is correlated to the number of
ways something (whatever) can be attained?
 
I have the impression that you describe the difference of philosophy and
religion. At least in the way that I have seen them used.
   Benedikt
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: corey@sdf.lonestar.org (Corey Carroll)
Subject: Religion statistics
Organization: sdf full-shell Public Access Unix - Dallas, TX - 214/436-3281
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 19:59:16 GMT

I was wondering if anybody could recommend a good reference for
statistics on world-wide religions.  I don't want biased
statistics from individual religions themselves.  I'd be
interested in seeing the growth rates/declinations of the
following religions:  Catholics, Protestants, Islam, Hare
Krishnas, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons,  Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter Day Saints, Seventh Day Adventists, Christian
Scientists, Scientologists...  I am especially interested in
seeing the statistical histories of the millenarian religions and
the religions that have predicted end of the world (Mormons, JWs)
or other similar events.  Email your replies.  No preaching,
please.


-- 
corey@sdf.lonestar.org  214-296-0458   Corey Carroll
From: sieferme@stein.u.washington.edu (Eric Sieferman)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: THE RESURRECTION ACCOUNTS and Contradictions (?)
Date: 27 Jan 1993 22:01:32 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu

In article <1993Jan27.121048.26326@news.ysu.edu> af664@yfn.ysu.edu (Frank DeCenso, Jr.) writes:
>
>Eric Seiferman wrote "one of my bases for rejecting the resurrection of Jesus
>as an historical fact is that the only four alleged accounts of the event
>are vague and filled with contradictions."
>
>Otheres have alluded to this as well.
>
>It's time to put up your evidence!
>
>I CHALLENGE you, Mr. Seiferman, and others who feel there are _contradictions_
>inn the accounts to post them one at a time, and I will do my best to 
>respond to them. This claim is made by those who do not understand what the
>word _contradiction_ means. Please look it up in a dictionary first.
>
>Don't forget the 1 Corinthians 15 account, Mr. Seiferman.

Normally I don't reply to people who SPELL MY NAME INCORRECTLY,
but I am in a good mood.

Last week, there was a series of messages in talk.religion.misc
pointing out the contradictions in the NT passages dealing
with Jesus' tomb.  The fact that you are offering this 
"challenge" shortly after this series of messages indicates
that you don't read and/or comprehend postings in t.r.m.
with which you disagree.  In this case, it would seem to
be an exercise in futility for me to compose and post
the list you request.  I have posted similar lists in the
past, only to have the same people post the same errors
within a few days.

However, if I meet your challenge then I can (in good conscience)
delay filling out my income tax forms for another week.
Here's my deal:  if some other kindly freethinker has
a list of the NT contradictions which Frank requests, 
please post them and save me the bother.  If not,
then I will post a list no later than next Tuesday
(since my books on religion are all at home).

After this list is posted, then I can assume that 
Frank will no longer discuss the resurrection of
Jesus as an historical fact.  If he does, then I
will continually remind the readers of t.r.m. that
Frank is a liar and a weasel.

If this deal is not acceptable to you, let me
know.

-- 
--- As Seen In soc.religion.christian:  There are plenty of biblical
teachings on the misuse of sexuality, but I've never seen any about hair.
Besides, hair is dead once it grows out through the skin, whereas sexuality
is meant by God to be life-giving.
From: robarr@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Robert O'Barr)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: CONTRADICTORY MORMON DOCTRINE, Part 1
Date: 23 Jan 93 21:46:27 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <3fFv02.B33xe01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> agr00@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose) writes:
>In article <18142@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:
>>>This passage is a late addition.  It does not appear in any Greek
>>>manuscript before the 14th Cent, nor in any Latin manuscript before
>>>the 8th Cent, and even beyond those dates it's rare.  (Of the 4 Greek
...
>>Gosh, Tony, does this mean that maybe the Bible is only 99.99% accurate?
...
>Word of God is the words that were written by the prophets. The *first*
>copies. This verse above is in the KJV, but not in most of the newer

Perhaps you could fill us in on how to get our hands on the "original
copies".  That way, we won't have to guess what the differences are
in the current best guesses of the origianl.

>translations. When the KJV was translated in 1611, this verse was in
>the texts they used. Since then we have found many more texts and when
>we put them all together for a translation, we see that it is better for
>this to be explained in a different manner.  I am aware of these things
>and that is why I study the original languages. Then I can tell what is
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>*really* being said. Rather, you don't learn any languages, but get a
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Are you saying Tony that you read greek better than the scholars who
translated the KJV of the Bible?  The inaccuracies have little to do
with lack of knowledge of Greek but more to do with the wide
variations among the different texts.  The KJ translators had access
to a limited variety of texts.

Of all the known greek manuscripts of the nt, there are somewhere close to
30,000 varients in the texts.

Robert
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: mpajula@phoenix.oulu.fi (Marketta Pajula)
Subject: Re: UFO TV
Organization: University of Oulu, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:07:29 GMT

John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com wrote:
: Dear Folks: I believe you will find that we have quite a few 
: TV shows on now that appeal to different people's interest. On
: Wednesday night you have Unsolved Mysteries which talked about the
: golden statue that was stolen from a man by Marcos. Next of the 
: same night we have Space Rangers (the pilot) which deals with a
: secret form of energy that could control things (the show is very
: brutal and crude but I like it). On thursday you have Star Trek
: Deep Space 9 which last week was about a clone being made. On 
: Friday you have Sightings. Even on Key West (which I don't 
: especially care for), there was a discussionx as to why
: we are here. If you ever find out the answer to that question tell
: the world about it. John Winston.
Perhaps we are here to find out why we are here.

Olli Pajula.

Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:6254 alt.alien.visitors:10118
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Messages From UFOs.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 19:57:32 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

Subject: Messages From UFOs. 
  Many people, including myself, read quite a bit of information that comes 
from the space people. A person by the name of Dr. R, Leo Sprinkle  does a 
lot of writing about UFOs and here are some of his thoughts.....Friendly 
space aliens are using people as messengers to communicate with mankind and 
help guide us to a happy future, excited experts say. 
 In fact, in throughly documented cases, 12 people have been videotaped 
relaying messages from extraterrestrials. 
  "We are finding humans being used to transmit messages from space aliens," 
declared Dr. R. Leo Sprinkle, a prominent expert in the field of UFO 
phenomenon. 
  Both Dr. Sprinkle, and Jiles Hamilton, a world famous hypnotist, have 
encountered eerie cases of aliens whose voices emerged from people under 
hypnosis. 
 Hamilton, who has videotaped 12 "messengers" in action, said his first 
contact was made in 1978.
  "I hypnotized a woman who's famous for having been abducted twice by UFOs," 
he said. 
  "During the session she began to speak in a different voice. I realized it 
was  an alien. It told me, "We will lead you to our contacts on Earth."
  "Two days later a 40-year-old woman came in for hypnosis to help her pass an 
exam. While under hypnosis, her facial expression changed and she spoke with 
a gruff man's voice." 
  "The alien, called Wolco, said his people progressed far beyond us to the 
point where they have no emotions-but he feels they lost something as a 
result."
  Another  "messenger" was a tall, middle-aged steelworker. 
  "He was an easygoing guy, but under hypnosis his voice changed to an almost 
impudent tone. The alien, who identified himself as Andrew, was opinionated 
and sarcastic. He told me, "You earthlings are on the verge of destroying 
yourselves.  My superiors think they can help, but I don't know."
  "Andrew went on to tell me that many people lost in the Bermuda Triangle 
were picked up by his people and taken to their Planet."
  Dr. Sprinkkle noted the case of an Oregon grandmother. "When she's in a 
trance, this fellow Hweig speaks through her," he said.  Her voice changes. 
Hweig says that UFO activity has two purposes - one to rejuvenate the Earth 
and the other to assist humankind in its evolutionary development. 
  "The overriding theme of all these cases is that the aliens are trying to 
get friendly messages across."
  Hamilton agreed, "They want us to know they're interested in our welfare. 
They are most concerned with our materialistic attitudes, greed, jealousy 
and hate.  
  "They say our planet has a short fuse for destruction unless we do an 
about-face. 
Source of Information: Weekly World News January 19, 1993. 
JW It seems like the space people are trying to tell us something.
John Winston
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:6278 alt.alien.visitors:10194 sci.skeptic:22835