From: shaw@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.japan
Subject: Japan/US comparison
Date: 9 Oct 92 23:42:53 GMT
	<1992Oct6.190526.9818@tcsi.com>
	<SHAW.92Oct6204751@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu> <2234@usna.NAVY.MIL>
Distribution: na
Organization: MIT Lab for Computer Science, Cambridge, Mass.
Forward-To: soc.culture.japan

In article <2234@usna.NAVY.MIL> wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.MIL (Wm. Douglas Withers -- math  FACULTY <wdw@sma.usna.navy.mil>) writes:
   In article <SHAW.92Oct6204751@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu> shaw@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
   >
   >If you've never been to Japan, I think it's difficult to understand the
   >degree to which the US is _already_ way behind.  If we don't get our shit
   >in gear soon, we're going to be in *big* trouble.
   >
   I just can't resist responding to this.  Perhaps you could clarify just what
   you mean by this remark?

   Pending such clarification, I think this type of remark reflects a myth of
   `invincibility' that has grown up around the Japanese during the past decade.
   I've spend a fair amount of time in Japan.  While it is true one could
   describe the Japanese as being `ahead' of us in many areas, it is also true
   that we are `ahead' of them.  I think that an opportunity to swap our set
   of problems for theirs would be a poor deal for us.

   A few examples come to mind:

   The Japanese seem to have never even heard of accessibility for the disabled.
   If you move around to any extent in Japan, you climb lots and lots of stairs.
   I've seldom seen a person in a wheelchair in Japan; I really think they're
   afraid to leave their homes.

   While we in the U.S. are still struggling with problems of racism, the
   Japanese have not even begun to confront this issue.  It might be interesting
   to compare the experiences of Korean-ge Japanese-cu in Japan and Korean-ge
   American-cu in the U.S.

   I think the Japanese have started to pay attention to the environment, but
   they are definitely lagging behind us in this respect.  The Japanese have
   been enthusiastic consumers of whales and tropical hardwoods.

   I remember spending a trying period in the Kyoto train station when the
   temperature inside the station was at least 90 (Fahrenheit).  There were
   air conditioners inside the station but these were so configured as to
   cool an area of about a hundred square feet.  A sign posted nearby made it
   clear that this arrangement was deliberate.  It strains belief that one
   could find an airport in the U.S. which would be sweltering simply because
   the designers decided to make it so.  Similarly, while one can buy
   nicely designed add-in air-conditioning units for the home, the circuitry
   in many houses is not robust enough to cool more than one room at a time.

   Similarly, there are still quite a few homes in Japan without sewer hookups.

   And then we come to the schools.  I find it generally true that products
   of Japanese high schools are better educated than those from American high
   schools.  However, many in Japan are becoming interested in reforming their
   school system to become more like the American system (the Japanese system
   is awfully hard on the kids).  And when it comes to colleges and universities,
   many believe the U.S. has quite an edge on Japan (including me).

   And excuse, me, but I think the phenomenon of business executives travelling
   overseas so they can find cheap hookers represents a problem in itself.

   I could come up with much more.
   -- 
   Els Withers                   email: wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.mil
   Department of Mathematics     phone: (410)267-3192 / fax: (410)267-4883
   United States Naval Academy
   Annapolis, MD  21402-5002     Senri no tabi mo ippo yori...

[I'm sorry if this is posted twice -- I had some problems the first time. -Andy]

This is a moderately interesting subject, but not appropriate to
soc.culture.asian.american -- I have forwarded it to soc.culture.japan,
where I am sure there will be someone willing to discuss this with you.

I agree with you about the fact that the US is far ahead of Japan (and the
rest of the world) in terms of race relations, although at times, this may
be hard to believe.  I don't agree with any of your other statements,
except maybe about the sewer hookups, which I believe is a temporary
situation that is _far_ more easily addressed than, for instance, the
problems of our primary and secondary schools, crime, a complete lack of
coordinated economic strategy, etc., etc., etc.

In terms of things which are important, I believe that Japan is far ahead
of the US -- that is, if things continue as they are now, I have no
problems believing that in ten years, most of the world will aspire to a
Japanese standard of living, and a Japanese way of life, and that being
Japanese will confer far more status, prestige and power than being
American in the world.

I do not believe that the Japanese are invincible, nor do I believe the
American situation is hopeless.  However, I do believe that there are
plenty of Americans who are willing to bury their heads in the sand and
live on past or rapidly fading glories, and I do believe that there are
plenty of Americans (the vast, vast, vast majority) who have *no* *idea*
what it means to live in a country that is a second-rate power.  If we
don't get our shit in gear, I wish them luck in adjusting.

That's the extent to which I will participate in this discussion.

-Andy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american