From: mss2@quads.uchicago.edu (Michael S. Schiffer)
Subject: Re: Canada and the U.S.
Reply-To: mss2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 08:56:07 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.014606.14783@watserv1.waterloo.edu> schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes:

>But when I see that your president wants to impose HIS new world order,
>or when I see that Americans don't respect the treaties they signed
>(trade treaty), I can't help but considering that the American nation
>thinks itself of "the bellybutton of the world", considers its friends
>as so only when it suits it and so should change its attitude...

Well, as I've said before, I disagree with my government on its application
of the FTA-- it seems to me that Canada is in the right on the lumber
dispute.  As for the rest, it's been noted that every nation attempts
to use its influence to advance its ideals.  I can only point out
that given the relative disparity in military and economic power, the
US has abused its position less than other nations in similar positions
have.  Does that mean we're perfect?  Hardly.  But let's try to
keep the argument in the realm of disagreements among friends, if
we can.

>"We Americans have a duty to protect the idea of freedom in the world".
>Come on, it does sound "belly-button of the world", does it?

But don't we?  The US is the richest, oldest, most militarily powerful
democracy on the planet.  Should we tend our own gardens and ignore
what happens in Russia or South Africa?  Should we have done so
in WWII?  After all, there was no real danger that Hitler would
mount a transatlantic attack if we didn't interfere with his conquest
of Britain and the USSR.  We could have fought the Pacific war while
leaving Europe to its own devices.  It would have been horrific, but
it would have followed a path of temporary self-interest.

But it's in the interest of all democracies to encourage freedom and
democracy.  First of all, because historically, it appears that
democracies don't fight wars with one another.  (The only partial
exception I know of is the US Civil War.)  Democracies are also
more economically productive in the long run, and hence better trading
partners.

But I won't just argue from self-interest.  I think that even if
Britain and France had no commercial value to us at all, World War II
was worth fighting, and I believe that the freedom of millions of
central and eastern Europeans made the Cold War worth fighting.  Not
every episode, any more than the fact that WWII was just makes the
firebombing of Dresden right and good.  But in the long run, an empire
which denied basic freedoms which citizens of the US and Canada and
the EC nations take for granted was stopped from expanding,
and ultimately forced to disgorge what it had conquered.  And that was
worth the billions of dollars we paid to have it happen, even if I
didn't believe it saved us as well.

Not everything the US does is in the name of freedom-- the Gulf war
protected a few monarchies from a dictator, which may or may not have
been useful but did not significantly affect the distribution of
liberty in the world.  But what's _wrong_ with setting the defense
and fostering of free nations as one of our goals?

And not to say that we think that _only_ the US can or should
promote the ideals of freedom and democracy.  But we can only
speak for ourselves.  If we told you, "Canadians have a duty
to support freedom everywhere in the world," you'd rightly
tell us to mind our own business.  Maybe you do and maybe you
don't, but you don't need outsiders defining your duties for
you.  It's not inherently a matter of seeing ourselves as
the center of the world (though enough of us do it, I'll
grant) but a matter of taking _our_ stand, whatever anyone
else may do.

(Of course, that supposes that "we" have a stand.  There are
plenty of US citizens who disagree with everything I've written
above, but I'll leave them to tell you why I'm wrong.)

Mike
-- 
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS	"Never let your sense of morality prevent
mss2@midway.uchicago.edu	 you from doing what's right!"
mike.schiffer@um.cc.umich.edu	 --Mayor Salvor Hardin of Terminus
mss2@usite-next.uchicago.edu     Isaac Asimov, _Foundation_
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.canada,rec.arts.comics.strips