From: jdurbin@nl.oracle.com (Jason Durbin)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,alt.individualism
Subject: Re: On Banning Private Discrimination
Date: 24 Jul 92 09:35:17 GMT
Followup-To: alt.activism
Organization: Oracle Europe

In article <1992Jul24.054448.714@genie.slhs.udel.edu>, starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr) writes:
|> In article <nkghems@fido.asd.sgi.com> dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
|> }In article <archer.127@utkux1.utk.edu> archer@utkux1.utk.edu (T. Archer) writes:
|> }
|> }>So, you anti-liberty types don't believe that individual people are capable 
|> }>of acting in an enlightened manner, and must be forced to do so by a benign 
|> }>statist government.
|> }
|> }Actually, what I seem to notice is that almost every libertarian I know
|> }is a white heterosexual middle-to-upper class male.  Why is this, you may
|> }ask?  Because these people have never seen how terrible people can be
|> }to each other.  Since they have never experienced bias, they do not see it
|> }anywhere.
|> 
|> Logical fallacy: circumstantial ad hominem.  Besides, this is also false if
|> taken to be a generalization, a stereotype of what libertarians are.
|> 
|> }I find it hard to believe that an american business would pay women as much
|> }as men if they were not afraid of a lawsuit (even with the fear of a lawsuit,
|> }they pay them less).  I do not believe that all store-owners in the south
|> }would sell to afro-americans if they had any way to avoid it.  
|> 
|> Frankly, this utopian, end-state, egalitarian view has yet to be justified.
|> Why should women be paid equally, so long as consensual association is
|> maximized?  Why shouldn't store owners refuse to deal with ayone they damn
|> well please?  More precisely, why shouldn't these actions remain permissible,
|> and why shouldn't people who engage in vicious behavior improve themselves?
|> 
|> }The amount of hate that I see for being a gay man, in my day to day life,
|> }convinces me that given a choice, many many people would be biased against
|> }me.
|> 
|> Funny, there are many gay libertarians.  I work with some.  They don't think
|> that liberty would immediately destroy vice, but they recognize that vice is
|> both outside the correct domain for coercion and that, all else being equal,
|> virtue wins out over vice.
|> 
|> }All the evidence that I have seen for libertarianism is history which has
|> }been rewritten to make libertarianism seem like the answer.
|> 
|> Gee, no historical revisionism is done by either the socialists or the fascists!
|> 
|> }In an ideal world, libertarianism might work (just like communism might
|> }work).  However, given the current situation with haves and have-nots, 
|> }libertarianism would give white heterosexual males the freedom to return
|> }to the exploitive days of the past.
|> 
|> Socialist nonsense.  Ludwig von Mises proved - that's right, proved - the
|> impossibility of socialism in 1922, 70 years ago.  This haves and have-nots
|> stuff is more commie nonsense.  I'd like to reference it, if possible.  Same
|> for the "exploitative" stuff, too.
|> 
|> 
|> Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
|> 
|> "True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
|> oneself and others." - Voltaire

Tim:

Are you old enough to remember the "Whites only" drinking fountains and
bathrooms in the American South? I am. Are you old enough to to have
seen the Black population of the US living in conditions that could
best be described as primitive in the middle of the the most advanced
culture in the world? I am.

Are you old enough to remember when Jews were Kikes, Italians WOPs, and
Mexicans Spics? I am.

Are you old enough to remember when two white men and a black man were
buried alive fighting for the right to be free of the discriminations
you'd like to see allowed?

You say society is changing for the better, but just what kind of
pressure was brought on the individuals that made up that society
to cause them to change their attitudes? Divine intervention?

This is what I don't understand about the libertarian mindset. This
"life ain't fair, so let's just let everyone do as they want and,
since good always wins out over evil, everything will be just great
someday".

I probably hate many of the same rules and regulations you do, yet I
can see the reasons for them. Why can't you and the other libertarians
see the reasons?

Jason Durbin
Technology Division
Oracle Europe  
Newsgroups: alt.activism,soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,alt.individualism