From: tony@swrinde.nde.swri.edu (Anthony R. Benitez)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Lost Salvation
Date: 10 Nov 92 07:04:37 GMT
Organization: Southwest Research Institute, San Antonio, Texas

original posted question:
 
>>>>Does anyone believe it is possible to totally reject God, full 360,
>>>>after being saved (accepting Jesus, knowing Him) and enter hell?

mpeever@uvphys.phys (Mark Peever) replies:

> What exactly do you mean by "totally reject God?"
>It is definitely possible for a Christian to reject the Lord, but that
>in no way implies that the Lord rejects him.

> When Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit of God, wrote the 
>book of I Timothy, he said:
>        "...if we deny Him, yet He remaineth faithful
>        He cannot deny Himself"


First of all, if you quote scripture, please quote it correctly.

II Timothy
2:11            It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him,
                we shall also live with him.
 :12            If we suffer, we shall also reign with him:
                if we deny him, he also will deny us:
 :13            if we believe not, yet he abideth faithful:
                he cannot deny himself.

>The implication here is that if God were to deny or reject us, after Christ's
>finished work on the cross, that He would, in fact, be denying Himself.
>Thus, we are assured that Hewill never reject us, because He cannot reject
>Himself.       

Let us begin with verse 11 of II Timothy 2: Much of what Paul writes to the early
churches deals with dying to the works of the flesh. Knowing that when we die to
these works, the child of God then lives (abides with Christ).  Futhermore, Paul
adds in verse 12 that if we suffer, and I believe that all children of God suffer
in this soljourn here on earth, but suffer because of our rejection of the works
of the flesh, then we reign with Christ.  This also is a repeated theme of Pauls.

But, if we deny him (Christ), then Christ will deny us.  Will Christ deny us
in an eternal sense?  Mr. Peever is correct that a victorious risen Saviour
whose finished work of salvation, redemption, justification and atonement on the
cross would preclude any elect member of God from reaching imortal glory.  So,
how then are we denied?  Not in an eternal sense could Jesus ever deny us.
The will of the Father was that "that Christ should not lose ONE, but raise them
up on the last day."  Therefore, in context with us dying to works of the flesh
during this lifetime, if we deny Christ here on Earth, Jesus will deny us here
on Earth.  This is abundently evident in our inability to enter the kingdom
when we continue in the works of the flesh.  Until the Children flee from the
works of the flesh, we will not enter into the Kingdom.

Verse 13 is, however the clincher, and answers both the original question and
illuminates futher the blood covenant of which Mr.Peever talked about.
Paul states that if we believe not, Christ abideth faithful.  Huhmmm,
I hear an awful lot about the importance of belief in getting to imortal glory
but if we understand that Christ remains faithful to his elect family in
belief and in unbelief, "he cannot deny himself", this throws a wrench in
the entire idea of belief/acceptance as a condition of eternal salvation, and
rightly so.  The statement of the eternal covenant of God with his elect Family
applies to ALL HIS FAMILY, if not, shall the blood of or Lord and Saviour Jesus
Christ which was shed for us be made of "none effect"?  God forbid.  Jesus bled
and died for all the elect family of God and finished all the work on that cursed
tree.  Jesus did not lose one member of those given to him by the father.
Therefore, if we believe not - he remaineth faithful; if we accept not - he
remaineth faithful;  if we deny him in this lifetime - he remaineth faithful;
if we never even have an opportunity to hear the gospel - he remaineth faithful!

If our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ bled and died for us and is truly a "risen
and triumphant Saviour", what leads men to even think for one moment that they
have the power to negate an accomplished work of an omnipotent God!  I have
serious concerns about any Child who reduces the power of Christ to a puny,
insignificant begger, whimpering for you to accept him, or accept the eternal
home in glory which he has prepared, bled and died for!  The powerful Saviour
has accomplished the work of your salvation, and neither you or the host of hell
can in any form or manner deny him the victory!
 
My Dear Brethren, rejoice in the finished work of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus
Christ.  Deny the works of the flesh in this soljourn, and you will live with
him in you walk upon this globe.  But our hope is in a risen Saviour, and that
glorious day when he will come and take HIS CHILDREN home to Imortal Glory
forever and ever.

Yours in Christ
Anthony Benitez