From: johnsd2@vccnw05.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Subject: Re: EGGPLANT, IMPLANT, EMPATH, BLAZEPLANT..
Reply-To: johnsd2@vccnw05.its.rpi.edu.its1
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 18:06:41 GMT

In article 2262@sbcs.sunysb.edu, dtiberio@libws4.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
>In article <1992Nov13.012234.20048@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> jess@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Jess M Holle) writes:
>>Does an A3000 have a 25 MHz 040, like the Quadra 700???
>
>	No. That is why it only costs $1100, not $4,000+.

Ah, might I ask what it DOES have?

>>No one has as of yet answerered this question. 
>
>	I do believe I have twice.

Once is plenty for me, but I didn't see the answer either. Maybe
it didn't get out? (maybe I was stupid and overlooked it?)

>>is not in the same league as the Quadra, regardless of whether it has 
>>all the other features of a Quadra, which I gather it doesn't.
>
>	It is not as fast as a Quadra, but then again a Quadra is not
>as fast as an 040 Amiga simply because the windows are so slow (I have
>used Quadras before).

Its unclear what you mean here by "the windows are so slow". Any
particular aspect of them? (Draws the frames? opening them? Drawing
the content? Etc...)

>>How much does it cost to take a 25 MHz 040 Amiga system (is this the 
>>A4000?), add Emplant, and the other essentials for using Mac software?  
>
>	A3000 + 040 + Emplant = $1100 + $850 + $300 = $2250

What sorta RAM, HD, video, etc etc are we talking about here? 

>>Then add Ethernet, add 24-bit accelerated color (which most Amiga 
>>programs don't even support, as I understand), 3 NuBUS 90 slots, and 
>
>	Well, if you are running Mac emulation, then the Amiga software
>doesn't matter.

That's true.

> BTW, any program that can open on the Workbench supports
>24 bits, and most programs that don't open on the Workbench do try to 
>support 24 bits, such as renderers and landscsapers.

What's availiable as 24 bit acceleratar video HARDWARE, tho?

>
>>>$1100. Second of all, who cares about 3 NuBus slots when you can get 5
>>>32-bit Zorro II slots and three PC-AT slots for your IBM emulators. Also,
>>
>>First, who in the hell makes cards for Zorro slots, I've never even heard
>>of Zorro slots.  Can you get National Instruments boards for Zorro slots,
>>for instance?  I don't think so.
>
>	First, who in the hell makes cards for NuBus slots. I've never even
>heard of NuBus slots. Can you get NewTek boards for NuBus slots, for 
>instance? I don't think so.

NuBus slots are those MAc things. Lotsa folks make cards for them-
many video cards, plus things like sound cards accelerators, network
cards of various flavors, data acquisition cards, internal modems, and
other stuff I dont remember no doubt. :)

>>Second, who wants PC-AT slots.  Given that we are talking about a machine
>>in the same league as the Quadra 700 (supposedly), PC-AT slots would be
>>a horribly bottleneck in the system.  The throughput could not compare
>
>	Excuse me, Mr Bottleneck, but they don't slow down anything. They
>are simple ISA slots for IBM compatible cards, which are very abundant and 
>very cheap. That is why the Amiga has around 8 or 9 expansion slots; some
>are 32 bit Zorro III slots, others are IBM compatible ISA slots, and then
>the 32 bit accelerator slot and video slot.

If you put them on a separate bus they do not slow down anything,
so I presume you are doing that. I understand ISA starts having some
compatability problems if you speed it up too much, tho it generally
still works.

But I still wouldnt want something as messy as ISA slots in my Mac.

I dont know anything about Zorro slots.

>>In a portion of your post, which I deleted, you mention that you might 
>>be able to install NuBUS slots at a later date, with further developments.
>>Any guess as to how much will 3 NuBUS 90 slots cost??
>
>	No, but Jim Drew said he was planning on adding NuBus slots. BTW,
>the Amiga slots are removable as one full backplane in another slot. It
>is very easy to add change the slots in the Amiga, but I know Jim Drew
>would not design it that way to keep it compatible with the A2000.

That is a nifty feature!

>>>	24 bit graphics boards cost as little as $400. Sound input costs
>
>>I don't believe that ACCELERATED 24-bit graphics boards cost as little 
>>as $400, however.  The Quadra has a 24-bit accelerated graphics card.
>
>	I am buying a $6,000 24 bit card next week, if it makes a 
>difference. 160 MFLOPS is a little bit on the fast side. Supposed to
>render 3D images in real time.

How nifty. Is this the Video Toaster, or is there annother thing
with these capabilities for the Amiga?

>>on the PC for several lifetimes.  Printers and monitors are both available 
>>from 3rd party sources at lower prices than those charged by Apple.
>
>	A lot lower.

Right. So don't complain that Apple's peripherals are too pricy, therefore
The Mac Sucks.

>>>it have an accelerator slot? Does it support the Video Toaster? Does it
>>
>>The Quadra 700 has 3 accelerator slots if that's how you wish to use them,
>>you can plug 3 Radius Rockets into the NuBus slots and blast off.  Add
>
>	So you're saying it does not have an accelerator slot? Imagine
>what it will be like when the 100+ MIP Alpha chip plugs into the Amiga
>via the accelerator slot.

I believe he is saying the 700 has 3 NuBus slots that can be used
for an accelerator, such as the Radius Rocket (an '040 based
accelartor that can be made to run  alongside the main processor-
sorta a primitive multiprocessing)

I think the 900 at least has a PDS slots which is more along the lines
you are thinking of.

>>I could care less about the Video Toaster, personally, or built-in VCR/TV
>>output.  I want a workstation, not something to make videos with. Video
>>creation, etc. is Amiga's strongest niche, but I don't think that this
>>area is really all that important to the average user.  Joystick ports 
>
>	AppleTalk networks, 24bit, 68040s, Rocketshares, etc, are of
>no interest to the average user.

That's true. But if you intend to use this as an argument, dont mind
us saying the pre-emptive multitasking is of no interest to the
average user (also true, Im afraid)

>>are of no interest as well.  You don't get a machine of this level to 
>>play games on.  That's silly.  Besides, I find the mouse and keyboard
>>perfectly adequate.  Joysticks belong on Nintendos.
>
>	Nintendos use keypads. BTW, the joystick thing was a joke, and
>the machines with the best graphics usually have the best games.

Heh heh. Games I'll give to Amiga. I recently got to play the Mac
Demo of Lemmings.

NO WONDER you guys love Amigas! :)

>>>Does the software cost under $500? Does the hardware cost the same as
>>>IBM compatible hardware? Does it have true pre-emptive multitasking?
>>
>>Depends which software.  All of mine does.  At least it has a wide variety
>>of QUALITY software.  No, the hardware does not cost the same as an IBM
>>compatible, but then again, neither does the Amiga's as far as I know.
>
>	I believe I stated that Amiga hardware is the same as IBM hardware
>in almost all cases.

IBM has rather expensive hardware. I presume you mean PC-clone hardware.
In that case, the prices vary widely.

>	BTW, when you say your software is under $500, does that include
>$80 shareware packages that are crippled to death, free viruses, etc?

Name one piece of "shareware" that costs $80. In any case, Mac shareware
is very good, hardly crippled (for $80? It better not be) and viruses
are not so common. They do occur, so its a good idea to use Disinfectant
(the freeware viruskiller/stopper)

>On the AMiga, if you pay $80 for shareware the author gives you the
>source code and practically hands you the rights to it. :)

If you have to pay $80 for shareware on the Amiga (which I doubt),
the shareware had better be rediculous! :)

>>For the mere $500 that you mentioned, the Mac can be pre-emptively
>>multitasking under A/UX.  For the average user, pre-emptive multitasking
>>is a non-issue.  For the workstation user, it is one, BUT a wide variety
>>of quality, multi-platform, high-end software is arguably more important.
>
>	I HARDLY believe that pre-emptive multitasking is a non-issue.

Oops! You used this argument yourself on about 5 different things. Don't
even try to discount our use of it now.

What I think on the matter is that pre-emptive mt is very nice, but not
critical.

>Macs suck at multitasking, including the Quadras.

Compared to the Amiga, this may be true. (Ive heard it is)
But it is still good enough for a lot of things.

> So should I get A/UX
>in order to get pre-emptive multitasking? Okay, I will, but does it
>run Photoshop? :)

I think it will, actually. Its compatible with a lot of Mac software,
but I dont know exactly.

>	If you think high-end software is more important, then ask me
>how glad I am that I can run almost all IBM and Mac software for 
>under $1,000 of additional hardware, and under $1 in software only.

$1 in software? :) They been cutting the A-MAX prices?

Im a bit surprised you think being able to run other computers
software is a big deal. Can the Amiga not stand on its OWN virtues?

>
>-- 
>      Amiga Graphics Association BBS (516) 473-6351  24 HRS, 14.4k baud
>PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT
>    "I don't have any experience in running up a 4 trillion dollar debt."

Me neither! Vote me for president! Oops, too late now.. :)

---
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

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