From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.rights.human,soc.culture.greek
Subject: Anti-"Macedonian" Legal Acts by Successive Greek Gvmnts - Reply
Date: 8 Jan 93 12:32:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-8298v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 


>Please reconsider. I have a genuine interest to hear a Greek's response
>to the successive Greek governments laws which clearly discriminate
>against Macedonians living within Aegean Macedonia. They are there to
>be seen,

 You probably are getting no replies because no one is taking you
seriously. With the President of the rebublic of Greece (Konstantine
Karamanlis) being a Macedonian, and with the population of
2,500,000 Macedonians being the most fierce in their opposition of the
recognition of the so called "Macedonian Republic" in the north (In
their last rally in Thessalonica, over 800,000 attended, to the point
that the transportation systems could simply not accomodate any more)
any claim of abuse of the Macedonian people sounds ridiculous.

> I have a genuine interest to hear a Greek's response
>to the successive Greek governments laws which clearly discriminate
>against Macedonians living within Aegean Macedonia.

 See above. What laws? Everything you presented so far refers only
to measures passed after 1913, after the population exchange with
Yugoslavia.

 Under the terms of the population exchange, an agreement signed in 1913
by the governments of Greece and Yugoslavia:

 1. All Slavs living in Greece should move to Yugoslavia.
 2. All Greeks living in Yugoslavia (including Vardar since it was
Yugoslav territory until 1992, and it is still recognised only as a
Yugoslav territoty by the United Nations Organisation, the US, the EEC,
and 95% of all the nations in the world) should move to Greece.

 The agreement was fully implemented between 1913 and 1920 (with some
delay caused when Yugoslavia was overrun by the Central Empires during
WWI). Unless you can prove that Greece forcefuly obliged non-Greeks to
remain in Greece in violation of the agreement (which is absurd; why
would the Greeks do that?) the rest of your arguments are irrelevant.

 Some people (only two persons to be exact) living in Greece now claim
to be "Slav-Macedonians". They overlook the fact that their ancestors
chose their nationality as Greek during the 1913 population exchanges.
The rest of the claims about a minority come from Vardari sources. The
US Consulate in Salonica has investigated these claims and found them to
be innacurate. Greece also has extended an open invitation for a UN
fact-finding mission.

 You write that Greece officially changed Slavic city names to Greek.
Most of the cities in Macedonia were before 1913 called
different names by Greeks and Slavs, and naturally, the Greek government
standarised the use of the Greek names. Similarly the Yugoslav
government standarised the use of Slavic names in Vardar (Monastiri
became Vitola, for example). That was the whole point of the population
exchanges. Greek cities in the north became Slavic, and slavic cities
in the south became Greek, thus bringing a peaceful solution to a
situation of mixed populations that was very similar to today's Bosnian
chaos.

 In cases where there were no Greek names for cities, the Slavic names
remain. Kilkis, Florina, Servia, are examples of major cities with
Slavic names. There also exist the Nomoi of Kilkis, Florina, which were
ofcource formed after 1913. If the Greek government was so determined to
clean the country of slavic names, why did they establish two new Nomoi
with Slavic names after 1913?

 As for the laws requiring that persons migrating to Greece from
Yugoslavia state that they are Greek: Again I refer you to the 1913
population exchange agreement. During the 1945-1990 reign of communism
over Yugoslavia, about 45,000 Vardaris took advandage of the 1913
population exchange treaty to migrate to Greece (usually as a stepping
stone to the US or Western Europe). They would state under oath that
they were Greeks by nationality, thus obligating Yu. to let them go, and
Greece to let them in. About 5,000 of them have since returned to
Vardar, creating a cituation where there are 10,000 persons and
their descendants who are officially Greek, but  living in Vardar.

 So the 1913 treaty applies when it is convenient for Vardaris wishing
to escape from Communist rule, but does not apply when it inconveniences
the creation of an accusation against Greece?

 Finally, regarding the refusal of Greece to accept the existence of a
"Slav-Macedonian" nation: The EEC, the US, the UN all seem to agree. I
find the arguement that Greece has been twisting the arms of all these
powerful nations/organisations to be absurd. How could Greece force
Britain, Frace, Germany, Italy etc into a UNANIMOUS decision on Lisbon?
What leverage does Greece have against the US gov. that Turkey does not
have? How about China, India, Brazil, Canada, Australia, and over 150
more countries that have thrown Vardar's request for recognition in thei
r waste baskets? Why do Bush nd Clinton agree on this subject, when they
disgree on other things?

 Even Bulgaria and Russia, which for other reasons have recognised the
existance of a "Macedonian" state, deny the existence of a
"Macedonian" nation, claiming the Vardaris to be a branch of the
Bulgarian nation. Go figure. Why should Greece take a position that is
contrary to that of 95% of all nations in the world?

Michael.
                                                  
Xref: sparky soc.rights.human:4753 soc.culture.greek:12140