HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Posted-From: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edi-l
Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 08:56:43 -0500
From:         MacFarland Hale <MacFarland.Hale@HECKLE.MITRE.ORG>
Subject:      Re: EDI & Universities
Comments: To: Electronic Data Interchange Issues <EDI-L@uccvma.ucop.edu>
              11 Jan 93 15:13:00 GMT." <9301111521.AA07134@mbunix.mitre.org>

> >What is the role of Universities in the research and development of
> >EDI?
>
> We are doing work at Trinity College Dublin on projects
> that address issues relating to the evolution towards a Global Open EDI
> Environment - These include  X.435 UA Design, X.500 Directory
> Integration, Security Services etc.
>
> The area is not well adressed by Universities, and as a result, the number
> of papers that appear in technical journals is rather small.
>
>
>
> Donal
>
>
> ****************************************************************************
> Dr. Donal O'Mahony      Internet: omahony@cs.tcd.ie
> Computer Science Dept   X.400:/s=omahony/ou=cs/o=tcd/p=nrn/a=eirmail400/c=ie/
> Trinity College         X.500:@c=IE@o=Trinity College Dublin
> Dublin 2                      @ou=Computer Science@cn=Donal O'Mahony
> Ireland
> ***************************************************************************
>
I work on an OSI Integration Project within our corporation.  As a result, I
am VERY interested in any work toward building the proper connections between
EDI and the other OSI/GOSIP/IGOSS standards as you've described.  Are you
actually developing products, or working on integrating commercial packages?
Would you please send me any details you can - documents, project outlines,
references to related published papers, information on acquiring/evaluating
your products (MITRE is not-for-profit), etc.?

We have both X.400 and X.500 architectures in place within MITRE, and we will
extend these outside the corporation very soon (part of our X.500 directory is
already public).  We are also getting started with EDI, and I'd like to use
these services in tandem (as they SHOULD be).  I'm particularly interested in
the X.435 UA you mentioned and your approach toward directory integration.

Other folks on EDI-L may also be interested in a little more info (though I'm
personally looking for as extensive info on Trinity's work as I can get).

        Mac

        MacFarland Hale                 machale@mitre.org
        The MITRE Corporation           (617) 271-3703
        202 Burlington Road, MS K331    (617) 271-2352 FAX
        Bedford, MA  01730-1420         USA
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Date:         Tue, 5 Jan 1993 08:46:00 LCL
From:         David Laudicina <DIL.ADMIN@MHS.UNC.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Hierarchical Messages
Comments: To: Bill Laidley <EDI-L@uccvma.bitnet>

Hierarchical designs lends itself to shorter messages no repetition. Also
the designers of standards often design the standards to mimic their data
base designs. I.E. railroad TDCC for pricing mimics the database
structure of TDX a pricing storehouse who were instrumental in the TDCC
specs.
Dave L
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Date:         Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:19:06 GMT+0200
From:         Marek Tiits <MAREK@CCU.UT.EE>
Organization: Tartu University Computing Center
Subject:      edi documentation

    hi all!

    sorry about maybe dummy question - i'm just new here, but can
anybody of you tell me please, is a documentation about standard
avaliable anywhere via anonymous ftp or mail ?

    yours sincerely,
    marek tiits

---
    Marek Tiits
                                    Tartu University Computing Center
    E-mail: marek@ccu.ut.ee         Liivi 2, Tartu, ESTONIA

                                    Korp! Rotalia
                                    Ta"he 3, Tartu, ESTONIA
    E-mail: marek@rot.ut.ee         phone +7(01434)75313
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edi-l
Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 13:44:00 -0700
From:         Bill Laidley <WLAIDLEY@BCSC02.BITNET>
Subject:      EDI & Universities

>What is the role of Universities in the research and development of
>EDI?

Other than the Universities in the US getting together to design new
transactions (for exchanging transcripts, etc...) I'm not aware of any
research looking at EDI transaction design. There are three universities
in Canada which have research projects underway which are looking at
business aspects of EDI. Oiva Kuittinen completed a thesis on EDI this
fall. The thesis is in Finnish, and few people have shown interest in
a translated version.

>Is any research being done on the use of AI to drive EDI systems?

Oiva's thesis initially focused on this, but the topic was changed as
there is little happening that organizations will admit to. Check the
archives for this  discussion list for some colourful comments on AI
and EDI.

Regards, Bill Laidley
EDI Expert Team
BC Systems Corp. Vancouver (604) 660-9705
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Status: RO
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edi-l
Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 10:23:23 GMT
From:         marty <marty@EUROPE.IRIT.FR>
Subject:      RE: Hierarchical Messages
Comments: To: EDI-L@uccvma.ucop.edu

  This my first contibution to this list.

  I read a lot of things about EDI in this list. Most subscribers are working
with the American standard : ANSI X'12. I use the international standard (publis
h by UNO) EDIFACT.

  Database and EDI messages are quite a problem. The structure of messages is
hierarchical and repetitive. I know nothing about hierarchical databases and
network databases. The structure of an EDIFACT message is in its design
"Not First Normal Form". Design a relational structure for a message is a
tranformation from a "Not First Normal Form" to a "Third Normal Form" at least.
Use directly a "Not First Normal Form" would be a good and rapid solution (no
database design). Does anyone have ever heard about such implementation for EDI
messages ? I now there were experimentals "Not First Normal Form" databases but
I don't if there is any commercials products.


  English is not my maternal langage so the follows lines are the translation
of the english part in french.

  Ceci est ma premiere contribution a cette liste.

  J'ai lu beaucoup de chose sur les EDI dans cette liste. La plupart des
abonnes travaillent avec la norme americaine ANSI X'12. J'utilise la norme
internationale (publiee par l'ONU) EDIFACT.

  Bases de donnees et messages EDI est un vrai probleme. La structure d'un
message est hierarchique et repetitive. Je ne connait rien sur les bases de
donnee hierarchiques et reseaux. La structure d'un message edifact est dans sa
conception NF2 ("Not First Normal Form"). Concevoir une base de donnees
relationnelle pour un message est une transformation de NF2 vers au moins une
troisieme forme normale (3NF). Utiliser directement une base de donnees NF2
serait une bonne et rapide solution (pas de conception de base de donnees).
Quelqu'un a-t-il deja entendu parle d'une telle implantation pour des messages
EDI ? Je sais qu'il existe des base de donnees NF2 experimentales mais j'ignore
si il existe des produit comerciaux.


Thanks and Happy New Year
Merci et Bonne Annee

Guy Marty
marty@irit.fr
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Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:31:13 -0500
From:         R A Rodgers MSM <rar0659@HERTZ.NJIT.EDU>
Subject:      EDI & THE UNIVERSITY
Comments: To: edi-l@uccvma.ucop.edu

What is the role of Universities in r the research and development of
EDI?

Is any research being done on the use of AI to drive EDI systems?
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Priority:     normal
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edi-l
Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 13:59:28 EST
From:         "Michael S. Hines" <MSHINES@FREH-03MS.ADPC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: EDI and the Health Care Industry
Comments: To: EDI-L@uccvma.ucop.edu

          Liz Hays <lhays@CNRI.RESTON.VA.US> says..

>FYI...
>
>There is a short article in the October 1992 issue of EDI World on the
>Health Care Industry.
>
Liz et al...how does one subscribe to EDI World?  Thx.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet:  mshines@ia.purdue.edu      |  Michael S. Hines
Bitnet:  michaelh@purccvm             |  Internal Auditor-EDP
Purdue WIZARD Mail: MSHINES           |  Purdue University
GTE Net: (317) 494-5845               |  1065 Freehafer Hall
                                      |  West Lafayette, IN 47907-1065
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Original_To:  JNET%"edi-l@uccvma"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edi-l
Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 09:29:00 N
From:         ZGHAL@TNEARN.BITNET
Subject:      research on EDI

I am a researcher on networking in Tunisia. I am working on EDI and especially f
ocused on:
-The introduction of EDI in a sector or in a company and the definition of the s
teps to follow within a methodology;
-The security with EDI;
-The conception of EDIFACT messages.
I would like to have some contacts with laboratories working on these subjects.
Thanks.
               Sonia ZGHAL
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edi-l
Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:49:47 -0700
From:         Bill Laidley <WLAIDLEY@BCSC02.BITNET>
Subject:      Relational EDI Messages

>From:         marty <marty@EUROPE.IRIT.FR>
>Subject:      RE: Hierarchical Messages

>
>  Database and EDI messages are quite a problem.

Absolutely. So are EDI messages and applications when it comes time to
integrate.

>                                                 The structure of messages is
>hierarchical and repetitive.

It is the nature of the forms that are used in business transactions to
be hierarchical and repetitive. It is a simple, relatively easy to
understand way to design and use the forms. For an exercise in nasty
humour - imagine what a form might look like if it was in third normal
form.

>                             I know nothing about hierarchical databases and
>network databases. The structure of an EDIFACT message is in its design
>"Not First Normal Form". Design a relational structure for a message is a
>tranformation from a "Not First Normal Form" to a "Third Normal Form" at least
.

What would a 3NF EDI transaction look like? The conversion process (from
"Not first normal form" to 3NF) invloves identifying dependencies, keys,
redundancies, etc. and splitting an existing 'file' into multiple tables
with keys used to link them. Would an EDI transaction get split into
'sub' transactions within an EDI envelope?

>Use directly a "Not First Normal Form" would be a good and rapid solution (no
>database design).

Your average Database Administrator might not agree ;-).

>                  Does anyone have ever heard about such implementation for ED
I
>messages ? I now there were experimentals "Not First Normal Form" databases bu
t
>I don't if there is any commercials products.

One question to ask - how many sites out there actually use applications
which use relational databases? Not as many as we might think (or wish
to think...).

Regards, Bill Laidley
EDI Expert Team
BC Systems Corp. Vancouver (604) 660-9705
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Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 14:15:37 -0500
From:         Liz Hays <lhays@CNRI.RESTON.VA.US>
Subject:      Re: EDI and the Health Care Industry
Comments: To: Electronic Data Interchange Issues <EDI-L@uccvma.ucop.edu>
              06 Jan 93 13:59:28 EST." <9301061410.aa18961@CNRI.Reston.VA.US>

EDI World
2021 Coolidge Street
Hollywood, FL  33020-2012
305-925-5900
305-925-7533 (fax)


It is free to qualified readers in the US, Canada or Mexico. For those
that don't qualify the yearly subscription is $45 (US and Possessions),
$55 (Canada and Mexico), and $90 (all other countries).
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edi-l
Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:13:00 LCL
From:         "B.Eckenfels" <UKD1@DKAUNI2.BITNET>
Subject:      Floating-Segments (some statistics wanted)

X-COPYRIGHT: NONE
-----------------------------------------------------------------------+--------
Hello Experts, (and those who are going to be one)

  How about a new Subject to talk about (in the NG).

  I have noticed, many of you working whith ANSI X.12 and translator
  Software.
  Could you summarize to me how often the floating-segments are used
  in your automatic convertion from an Inhouse File into an Trans.Set
  and vice versa.
  Is there any regular use of the NTE-Segment in any Message created
  or read '_humanless_'.

Bye to U and....
everything you want in the new year from
Bernd.

---- S-MAIL -----+---------------------------------------------+      ,,,
BERND  ECKENFELS !     VOICE: +7257 / 3817  (2 WordsPerSecond) !     (o o)
WITTUMSTRASSE 13 !    BITNET: UKD1@DKAUNI2.BITNET              +-oOO--(_)--OOo-
W7520 BRUCHSAL 4 !  INTERNET: UKD1@IBM3090.RZ.UNI-KARLSRUHE.DE !              !
 G E R M A N Y   !  NICKNAME: ECKENFEL (only on the home site) ! Comp.Science !
-----------------+---------------------------------------------+--------------+
:-) (Hi,I'm a signature VIRUS, pleas copy me into *YOUR* signature) V1.0
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             @harvard.harvard.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edi-l
Date:         Mon, 4 Jan 1993 16:55:19 U
From:         Frank Blau <frank_blau@CARESYS.PHC.COM>
Subject:      RE: Hierarchical Messages
Comments: To: Electronic Data Interchange Issues <EDI-L@uccvma.ucop.edu>

I'm new to this list, but I'll just jump right in...

I've long been an advocate of the relational approach to EDI messages. The
model fits, forwards and backwards. Given the opportunity (hah!) I'd re-design
our entire relational model around EDI data elememts. Seems to me that that is
a revolutionary yet forward thinking approach!
_______________________________________________________________________________
From: Electronic Data Interchange Issues on Mon, Jan 4, 1993 4:51 PM
Subject: Hierarchical Messages
To: Multiple recipients of list EDI-L

 To: EDI-L000--$UCCVMA. <EDI-L@UCCVMA.Bitn

 Subject: Hierarchical Messages
 I wonder to what extent the question of hierarchical vs relational
 approaches to EDI message structures/design has been discussed or
 explored?
 The database folks have gone around this block, and the relational
 designs seem to be the logical progression from Hierarchical or
 network approaches.
 How come the relational designapproach to messages doesn't get more
 exposure? Most of this stuff goes straight into relational databases
 I hope!
 Happy '93!

 George Hammond,  Registrar's Office,  Queen's University
 Phone:     613-545-2011
 ONet:      HAMMONDG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA
 Fax:       613-545-2792
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edi-l
Date:         Mon, 4 Jan 1993 14:49:25 -0700
From:         Bill Laidley <WLAIDLEY@BCSC02.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Hierarchical Messages

My temptation is to start this note with "Yes Virginia, there is...",
not that I want to be sarcastic, but I have a certain Easter Bunny
or Santa Claus cynicism about the design methods employed in EDI
transactions. If you believe in Santa Claus, you probably also
believe that EDI transactions have been designed with a methodology.

>I wonder to what extent the question of hierarchical vs relational
>approaches to EDI message structures/design has been discussed or
>explored?

I haven't been part of the design process, so I can't comment reliably.
Maybe Randall will make a comment (he's been through the process...).

>The database folks have gone around this block, and the relational
>designs seem to be the logical progression from Hierarchical or
>network approaches.

My personal guess about design approaches is that the designers have
attempted to emulate the original paper. Most paper documents
could loosely be described as hierarchical. From comments I've heard
at DISA last spring I got the impression that there were no data
models implicit, explicit, or otherwise used.

>How come the relational designapproach to messages doesn't get more
>exposure? Most of this stuff goes straight into relational databases
>I hope!

Again guessing - probably because the participants don't have a
background in database or data modelling. I don't want to belittle
(well maybe just a bit...) the efforts of the committees, after all I
haven't made the effort to participate personally (there is the issue
of cost as well), they have accomplished a great deal. Having said that
I still want to emphasise that although "EDI is about business issues"
it needs a sound technical base to support the "business issues" or
it fails.

End of soapbox ranting, over to you Randall.

Regards, Bill Laidley
EDI Expert Team
BC Systems Corp. Vancouver (604) 660-9705
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.edi-l
Date:         Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:02:39 U
From:         Frank Blau <frank_blau@CARESYS.PHC.COM>
Subject:      EDI in Healthcare
Comments: To: Electronic Data Interchange Issues <EDI-L@uccvma.ucop.edu>

Is anyone out there in the healthcare arena? Managed care? Workers
Compensation? PPO's?

love to hear from you!

Frank Blau
Network Operations Manager
The CareSYS Co.
15 River Rd.
Suite 100
Wilton, CT  06897
203-761-7291

frank_blau@caresys.phc.com
From: v.narinian@IC.AC.UK
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas
Subject: Re: Liolis kai kamaki
Date: 12 Jan 93 19:18:39 GMT
Reply-To: v.narinian@IC.AC.UK
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Comments: To: Club Congress <STOKAS%ARIZVMS.BITNET@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU>
Comments: cc: hellas@american.edu

>Ante phge sthn Ellada o Liolis kai mas gurise me kamakeres dia0eseis.
>Molis eide kainourgio 0ulhko sthn hellas epese na to faei o atimos

Kai ama laxei, einai kai apo Imperial!! Plhthyname!

Vartan
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas
Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 23:29:59 -0500
Reply-To:     Ioannis REKLEITIS <yiannis@BINKLEY.CS.MCGILL.CA>
From:         Ioannis REKLEITIS <yiannis@BINKLEY.CS.MCGILL.CA>
Subject:      Tragoudi (sto Thodwro Zarro)
Comments: To: HELLAS@brownvm.brown.edu

Kalh xronia se olous sas (kai stis koufales pou eidan
Ellada ta xristougenna ;-)))) )
Kai ena tragoudaki apo spuridoula an den kanw lathos
afierwmeno sto Thodwro kai sto Stelio to Zoriko

...............
Ksurafi sthn apognwsh mou
Tis .... leukes oroseires
erhmos pou einai autos o xwros
pnigmenos mes tis enoxes.


To kserw pisw ap' tis kourtines
rixneis maties sto dromo sta klefta
Fobase thn nuxta na plagiaseis
xoreueis me to thanato agkalia.

Mou eipan pali pws se eidan
sto dromo pou den exei epistrofh
sto plai sou ... se nanourizoun
duo aggeloi me skoteinh morfh.



Na eiste kala oloi
Yiannis
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas
Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:07:20 -0600
Reply-To:     Andreas Veneris <veneris@UIVLSI.CSL.UIUC.EDU>
From:         Andreas Veneris <veneris@UIVLSI.CSL.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Boh0eia...
Comments: To: hellas@brownvm.brown.edu

        Den kserw to video club pou les alla otan imoun California
kapoios eperne tetoies viokasstes me Elliniki mpala apo ena video club
me arithmo 800-3686262, na zitiseis mia Niki, me afti mou elege oti
milage. Toulaxiston ola ta Evrwpaika paixnidia ta pername apo ekei.


Andreas/Urbana kai zitw to LA!
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas
Date:         Tue, 5 Jan 1993 08:40:33 EST
Reply-To:     "Theodoros Sp. Zarros" <zarros@TURING.SCS.CARLETON.CA>
From:         "Theodoros Sp. Zarros" <zarros@TURING.SCS.CARLETON.CA>
Subject:      Xairetw to eklekto kafeneio !
Comments: To: hellas@uga.cc.uga.edu

Kalh Xronia se oloys toys 0amwnes.

0a epakoloy0hsoyn kammia 40aria mail me antapokriseis , sxolia , synenteykseis
kai paraleipomena apo thn eksairetika epityxhmenh diorganwsh toy Porkys 3.5.
Osoi eyais0htoi kai zhliarhdes , parakalw na mpeite se nomail :-)

Xairetw sas ,

0odwros , Ottawa.
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X-VMS-Cc: IN%"hellas@uga.bitnet"
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Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas
Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 11:27:40 -0700
Reply-To:     Club Congress <STOKAS@ARIZVMS.BITNET>
From:         Club Congress <STOKAS@ARIZVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Test gia Neous
Comments: To: w.starke@IC.AC.UK
Comments: cc: hellas@uga.bitnet

...
Gia na mhn exoume komplex emeis oi neoi ths hellas stelnw to katw0i Quiz:

1. Giati to Porky's legetai porky's kai oxi Donkey's

2. Giati oi palioi th spane panta stous koinourgious

3. Giati oi kainourgioi mpainoun sa xesmenes gates sthn hellas sta prwta
   postings tous.

4. Giati oi kainourgioi 3e0areuoun se kana dimhno kai 3epatwnoun thn hellas
   sto xesimo (sundeste thn me thn 3)

5. Kalh kai h malakia alla me to gamhsi gnwrizeis kosmo


Andreas.......in baresame mpiela mode
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas
Date:         Tue, 5 Jan 1993 01:27:17 EST
Reply-To:     Giannis Alexiou <gt4495c@PRISM.GATECH.EDU>
From:         Giannis Alexiou <gt4495c@PRISM.GATECH.EDU>
Subject:      Nero sthn a0hna?
Comments: To: hellas@brownvm.brown.edu

 Kati akoysa oti pali fetos den exoyn arketo nero sthn a0hna. Akomh akoysa
oti 0a toys teleiwsei se 3 bdomades ???
 3erei kaneis tipota ?, as steilei info sto hellas.

Apo th broxerh Atlanta.
JA.
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