From: cco.caltech.edu!vidya (Vidyasankar Sundaresan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: Saivism. Vaishnavism and Casteism
Date: 21 Nov 1992 01:58:37 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: pooh.caltech.edu
Originator: vidya@pooh

In article <BxxGzC.I9t@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>  
selvakum@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (C.R.Selvakumar - Electrical Engineering)  
writes:
- I am posting the following as requested by Dr. Srinivasan
- 
- -------------------------------------------------------------
- Subject: Saivism Vaishnavism and Casteism
- 
-           A FEW WORDS ABOUT SAIVISM, VAISHNAVISM, CASTEISM etc.
- 
- There is a tendency to associate casteism and the introduction of
- Vaishnavism in the South. It is possible that Vaishnavism was
- introduced in the south just like Christianity was. It is also well
- known that history is full of personal opinions, and biases.
- There is no point in arguing about what was the 'truth'.


It is not very possible that Vaishnavism was introduced to the South. On  
the other hand, the South is the birthland of Vaishnavism. It is thought  
by most researchers in Hinduism (Re - A Survey of Hinduism -Klaus K.  
Klostermaier, Univ. of Manitoba) that Vishnu is originally the ancient God  
of the Tamils Mal. Tamils still use the words 'Tirumal' and 'Perumal'  
solely with regard to Vishnu. The Azhvars and their spiritual successor  
Ramanuja were the people who crystallized Vaishnavism as known today. All  
Vaishnavite saints of the north, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Vallabhacharya etc.  
acknowledge Ramanuja in their guru parampara. 

- 
- However, the fact is TODAY, the works of non-Brahmin Dravida Saints like
- Nammaazhvaar are held in very high esteem by the Vaishnava Brahmins.
- The works of even Brahmin Saiva Saints like Gnanasambandhar get nowhere
- near that importance by even the Saiva Brahmins.
- 
- It is common belief that Sri Ramanuja was chased out of Tamil region
- due to his spreading Vaishnavism in Saiva country. Considering that
- all the Vaishnava Temples remained quite prosperous, it is easy to see
- that this is false. Vaishnavism has always been very well accepted,
- along with all other faiths, in the Tamil region. The Tamil region is
- indeed well known for its religious tolerance, even today.
- (It has the least religious riots even today).

It is not just common belief, but history records that Ramanuja was chased  
out by the then Chola king as the king was a Saivite. He went to Hoysala  
land and converted Ballala to Vaishnavism. (Re - A History of South India  
by K.A. Neelakanta Sastry, who is very thorough in his researches).  
Vaishnave Temples are prosperous because people always patronised all  
temples irrespective of their own personal predelictions. However it is  
glossing over the truth to say that the Tamil country has always been very  
tolerant. Stories of numerous Jains and Buddhists being put to death by  
kings after converting to Saivism or Vaishnavism are not that easily  
discounted as myth. 


- 
- In my opinion, he was chased out, for his progessive ideas about castes,
- questioning the authority of the Vedic Brahmin control of Hindu  
religion.
-

If you read about temple ritual, you will see that Vedic Brahmins have  
very little to do with them. Temples are always controlled by Brahmins of  
a special category, those who claim the Agamas to be superior to the  
Vedas. Read the studies of the Madurai Minakshi Temple by C.J. Fuller and  
the Triplicane Parthasarathy Temple by Arjun Appadurai. What Ramanuja did  
was to accept non-Brahmins as his disciples. Since he was a priest of the  
Varadarajaswami Temple at Kanchipuram and later at the Srirangam temple,  
this must have upset not only the Vedic Brahmins but also the Agamic  
Brahmins who believed they had sole right over temple ritual. 


- Finally, IMHO, Vaishnavism and Christianity have contributed positively
- towards reducing the effects of pure Saivite Hindu philosophy, which  
might
- have lead to fatalistic passive submission and neglect of material  
progress,
- without which we would not be where we are today, in the material plane.


Pure Saivite philosophy i.e. that of the Saiva Siddhanta is also closely  
akin to Ramanuja's Vishistadvaita. Substitute Siva for Vishnu and you have  
most essentials of pure Saivite philosophy. Note that Sankaracharya's  
Advaita is not Saivite - not that it leads to passive fatalistic  
submission. It is the karma theory which leads to fatalistic passive  
submission - you always have another life to enjoy / your sufferings are a  
consequence of your sins in your previous birth, etc. Again please note  
that this concept of karma is something that predates any of these  
philosophical systems and all these systems accept it. The philosophical  
systems are not responsible for fatalistic .......... This is at least as   
old as the Vedas while the philosophical systems are all not more than  
1200 to 1500 hundred years old. 

- --------------------------------------------------------------------
- K. Srinivasan  at Hydro Quebec   srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
- 


The importance of any of these philosophies in daily life are grossly  
exaggerated. Few people understand Advaita or Dvaita or Visishtadvaita and  
their implications as regards material progress etc. To the contrary, it  
is the followers of purely Saivite philosophy who were the most interested  
in material progress - the Chettiars of Tamil Nadu and the Lingayats and  
Veerasaivas of Karnataka/Maharashtra.

S.Vidyasankar



Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.tamil