From: kamyar@mdd.comm.mot.com (Kamyar Moinzadeh)
Subject: Re: The Dastgah Concept in Persian Music - the book
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 22:35:44 GMT

In article <lfh3cjINN1bs@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> smortaz@handel.Eng.Sun.COM (Shahrokh Mortazavi) writes:
>In article <1992Nov1.213104.3097@news.acns.nwu.edu> MHz@nwu.edu (Mariam Hakim-Zargar) writes:
>
>[stuff about the aural-centric method of teaching deleted deleted]
>
>i see what you mean mariam.  one other factor for why the music wasnt
>written down (or no one thought it would be worthwhile), could be the
>fact that, as you said, the music is quite improvisatory.  improvisational
>musicians often have excellent 'ears' and can sound out most anything
>without any score.  hey, perhaps this aspect of the iranian musician gene pool
>has been emphasized during the last two thousand years!

Not every part of Persian Music is improvised.  ChaharMezrabs and Taknavazy with Avaz 
is improvised.  But Tasnifs(Taranehs), PishDaramds and Reng's can be written down, composed and arranged. So I think it is worthwhile to document those parts of Persian Music.

>
>>(It would be a mess if members of a chamber
>>orchestra decide to start improvising on phrases while everyone else is
>>strictly following the score (sheet music) ). 
>
>funny you should say that...  another interesting aspect of our music is that
>it contains little or no counterpoint whatsoever.  furthermore, i believe
>the tonality does not really lend itself well to a multi-voiced architecture
>well at all.  i remember back home the orchestra of radio iran would play
>some traditional tune, while the whole 55 member band would play the *same*
>*exact* melody!  it sounded baaad.  while the same piece , played solo on
>a ney labak or violin would take you to seventh heaven.

One Persian Music weaknesses was Hamnavazi in an orchestra.
Colonel Vaziri and Mr. Khaleghi really revolutionized the Perisan music by introducing
notes and harmony to Persian Music.  I have to disagree with the comment you made regarding
the orchestra of Radio Iran. The Golha Orchestra was very successful in playing Persian
tunes with a big orchestra. Just to name a few:

	Rangarang:	Arranged and composed by Mr. Khalegi, singer Ostad Banan
	Meye Nab:	    "	  "      "     "    "       , "       "     "
	Naghmehaye Mahur    "     "      "     "    "         "       "     "   and Ghavami	
	Ahange Bakhtiari:   "     "      "     "    "         singer Ghavami and Elaheh 
	Sargashteh:	Arranged by Mr. Maroofi, Composed by Mr. Khoram, singer Ghavami

But the thing that one has to keep in mind, and it was pointed out by Mr. Khaleghi, is
that there is a fine line in arranging Persian Music for the orchestra.  If that line is
crossed, then the tunes will sound more weternized.


>it seems like playing solo, or having a few soloist play together with
>some sort of a continuo like tombak is the formula that works best.
>
>>
>>	The persian music is orders of magnitude more complicated than that of
>>the  baroque era (which is by far the most complicated music form of the
>>westerns society, up till the modern era).  [note:  the western modern/post
>>modern music has been turning to a non-written style these days. There are
>>scores of music out there for an orchestra conductor which have seemingly
>>random lines and shapes on the staves: virtually unreadable if you dont have
>>an imagination!]  
>
>thats an interesting point.  just like a picture is a thousand words, a 
>recording is a thousand music scores!  i agree that the current notation
>system is very crude for getting an accurate portrayal of the music on
>paper such that someone else can reproduce closely what the writer had in
>mind.  its actually a double edged sword in that it leaves plenty of room
>for the player or conductor to intrepret the music freely.  but youre
>right, with all the reeze kaari that goes on in persian music, it can get
>impractical to try and write it down such that someone else can 
>reproduce it accurately - unless you can record/replay it, and even then... 

Again, that is true of chaharmezrabs, and taknavazi.  But Tasnifs and Taraneh's
are a great part of Persian Music.

>
>>
>>	{This is such an exciting topic: sorry if I keep side tracking.}  In
>
>most definately!  reminds of the good old days of sci, when we talked about
>music, literature, poetry, life, had farsi lessons, etc...
>
>>
>>Some have recently tried to write music down,
>>using a modification of the western written style, but peronally I believe
>>that it is a flop: it has too many bugs ;-).

Could you tell us what do you mean by bugs and what kind of bugs???

>interesting, could you elaborate?  what types of stuff have they proposed?
>
>>	May your music synthesized nagardad,
>
>whoooops!
>
>>
>>                                             MHz
>
>