From: horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen)
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE
Organization: Renaissance Software, Inc.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:30:12 PDT

In article <1992Aug19.143158.13093@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>>>>    o Pressured Israel to make once sided concessions in the
>>>>      peace process
>>>
>>>     * Pressured the Arabs to make concessions too.
>>
>>What pressure? What concessions? Where? But the Arabs were strong and
>>steadfast, and didn't yield to the pressure.
>
>Well, one of the major concessions is the departure from the idea of
>liberating Palestine and accepting the WB and Gazza. The PLO is not
>on the negotiating table, although I would not be surprised if this
>changes in the future. the Arabs demanded Israeli withdrawal first 
>before negotiations,now they don't.

I think we have (not just you and I, but most everyone in t.p.m.) a
basic difference-of-understanding with regard to the meaning of
"concession". In fact, it is more of a "double-standard". That is,
Israeli concessions are/must-be physical/tangible, while Arab
concessions are/must-be ideological/conceptual.

Israel *returns the Sinai Penninsula* (physical concession), while
Arabs  *recognize the existance of Israel* (conceptual)

Israel *stops building new settlements* (physical concession), while
Arabs  *depart from the idea of liberating Palestine...* (`major'
        ideological concession)

The basis of quid-pro-quo arrangements is that, regardless of whether
both sides pay with the same `coin', both sides pay the same *value*.

Where is the "parity" between physical and conceptual concessions?

>>>>    o Denied Israel's request for humanitarian assistance in
>>>>      resettling Russian Jews, and
>>>>
>>>     * The United States have always helped Israel to resettle
>>>       Jews in Israel. Recently the Loan guarantees have been
>>>       approved.
>>
>>Resettle Jews in Israel because of a history of annihilation
>>in every other country in which we settled (and for the last 44 years
>>the Arabs have been dedicated to the "final solution" of annihilating 
>>us there, too). And the Loan Guarantees have been approved because
>>Israel agreed-to and stopped-building new settlements.
>
>You make it sound like that building settlements in the territories was
>a right for Israel to do and they gave up this right for the loan gurantees.

Exactly. When one country is attacked by its neighbor (who, 19 years earlier
earlier, stole some of that country's land), and defeats that neighbor and
takes back the stolen land, it regains the right to develop that land. So,
the FIRST thing it does is relocate part of its population to the newly-
reclaimed land. It builds roads, sewer and water lines, electrical grids,
houses and apartments, schools and hospitals, and begins to develop
industry.

When Jordan declared war on Israel in 1948, and took over the West Bank
area, it did none of these things. When Israel won it back in 1967, it
was as if nothing had changed (except for the Jewish cemetaries and places
of worship and places of historical value that Jordan destroyed).

So, "Yes", Israel gave up this right *not for the loan guarantees*, but
for peace.

And again I ask, "What are the Arabs giving up? Where are *their* 
concessions?"

>>>Did he really say that? I have never heard it. Why the Palestinians have
>>>no right and Israel have right?
>>
>>Because Jordan=Palestine.
>>
>Simply NO! Jordan=Jordan=The Hashemites and Palestine=Palestine=Palestinians.
>If I go to Jordan with a refugee passport to obtain a visa, they will spit
>in my face at the airport.
 
No. The "Hashemites" were just another semi-nomadic tribe, living in the
Stone Age, when the British (for whatever perverse reason) decided to go
the Turks one better in screwing the Jews, and took the land on *both* sides
of the Jordan River and called in Trans-Jordan, and then gave the eastern
portion to the "Hashemites" and the western portion to Israel, calling it
"Palestine".

Those "Palestinians" about whom we hear so much are "Jordanians" -- it's the
Israelis who are the *real* "Palestinians". 

As for "refugee passports", well, it's a lot of hooey -- they are Jordanian
citizens, but that old "Hashemite" won't give them either passports or
recognize their citizenship, but he'll sure send them dinars... And as for
spitting in your face, the "Hashemites" are scared silly that if they let
those "Jordanians" living in Israel back into Jordan, that they would all
become fundamentalist Moslems and would overthrow their precious "Hashemite"
kingdom.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast