HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
Date: 27 Jul 92 23:15:05 GMT
Reply-To: dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann)
Organization: University of Arizona

In article <1992Jul27.104156.25308@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, wct@po (William C. Thompson) writes:
>
>In a previous article, dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann) says:
>
>>>I wouldn't go so far as to assume that Doyle was an ancestor of Spock.
>>
>>Would you rather have Spock an ancestor of Sherlock Holmes?
>
>What are you SAYING?  I assume you mean the other way around.

Ancestor, descendant -- what's the difference? ;-)  Anyway, you knew what
I meant.

>If so, the point remains, despite being a fictional character.

I disagree.  Suppose Spock claimed one of his ancestors said

  "Ask not what your country can do for you, rather ask what can you do
   for your country"

It wouldn't be much of a stretch to presume he was talking about JFK, right?
Same thing with the Doyle/Holmes quote.

>I don't know enough about Holmes to know if
>that's what he said.  Once again, there are writers don't forget, and
>they may have been toying with people wanting to believe Spock is an
>ancestor of Doyle (lots of fun to imagine).  But I think really it 
>was just nothing more than the writer's (you know, the real person
>behind the imaginary show) choice of words.

I'm not sure what your point is here.  I guess my point is that ultimately,
Spock is not a real person, and the writers can graft anyone into the family
tree they want to.  Given that the quote seems to referr unambigously to
a Sherlock Holmes line, you can give Spocks statement several interpretations:

  1. Spock claims to descend from A. C. Doyle.
  2. Spock was lying (or making a joke, like his `Nixon' line) and he has no
     ancestor who made the statement in question.
  3. In spite of the close resemblance of the quote to the Holmes line,
     Spock was referring to someone else who came up with virtually the
     same statement.
  4. Spock claims to descend from Sherlock Holmes.
  5. Some kind of ret-conning of the statement (writer error, for example).

These are presented in my preferred order from most to least preferrable
explanation.  There is no way to "prove" one of them right over the other,
so I can't claim you are unarguably wrong to choose an explanation besides
the first (or one I haven't thought of), but it seems to me that the first
(or second) is the least contrived of the lot.

-- 
Dave Schaumann			dave@cs.arizona.edu
From: Scott Gorcey <scottgor@jaflrn.UUCP>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: President of Federation in TUC
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 18:27:28 EDT
Organization: The Wizzard's Cave, East Meadow, NY

jcomer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jonathan C Comer) writes:

> I seem to recall this too.  This brings up a consistency (no anti-consistency
> flames, please) problem in that in several works, most notably STTMP, Deltans
> are not supposed to have _any_ body hair, while this guy obviously has a lot 
> it.
> 

     Who said he was a Deltan?  Nobody on-screen, that's for sure.
     The President's race was first seen in Star Trek IV - the
     Navigator of the USS Saratoga was one of them.
From: scduncan@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Sean C. Duncan, Idiot)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: President of Federation in TUC
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:43:19 GMT
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

In article <edjans01.711991575@starbase.spd.louisville.edu>, edjans01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu (David Jansing) writes:
> In <1992Jul21.203516.21395@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jcomer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jonathan C Comer) writes:
> 
>>I seem to recall this too.  This brings up a consistency (no anti-consistency 
>>flames, please) problem in that in several works, most notably STTMP, Deltans 
>>are not supposed to have _any_ body hair, while this guy obviously has a lot of
>>it.
> 
> That's right!  That is because the President in the film TUC was Effrosian.
> There was an Effrosian as the Helm Officer on the USS Saratoga in STIV:TVH.
> 
> I guess the book author wanted to be different.

Wrong.

The Efrosians are a made-up idea from FASA for the ST:RPG.  There is absolutely
reference to Efrosians in TOS, TAS, TFS or TNG.  They might be named Efrosians
for all we know, but there is no support for this claim (nothing has been
stated canonically about what race these dudes are.)

Sorry, try again.

> 
> -- 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 			 |
> Dave Jansing             | "Free at last, they took your life . . .
> University of Louisville |  But they could not take your pride!"
> Electrical Engineering   |  -- Clivelles & Cole after U2, "Pride"
> 			 |
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
-- 
Sean C. Duncan, scd@einstein.bgsu.edu :: scduncan@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
"The best thing to come out of Ohio is I-75." - Anonymous
_______________________________________________________________________
From: hinson@maxwell.physics.purdue.edu (Jason W. Hinson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Take 2 aspirin & call me in......
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:09:15 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Physics Department

In article <1992Jul30.172925.1@amherst.edu> lalombard@amherst.edu writes:
:In article <7944@dirac.physics.purdue.edu>, hinson@maxwell.physics.purdue.edu (Jason W. Hinson) writes:
:> In article <1992Jul29.081821.4767@gw.wmich.edu> adamsf@gw.wmich.edu writes:
:> :Two weeks ago I saw an episode (cannot remember the name) where we found
:> :an elderly couple left on a destroyed planet.....
:> :
:> :What is bugging me is the music that gave Troi such a headache. What was
:> :the significance of the music?  The dear old all-powerful fellow left the
:> :bridge, came back and said something like, "She is all right now." So???
:> :Why was that particular music from the planet's surface bothering her?
:> 
:> It had nothing to do with the particular song. It was just the fact that
:> it was continually playing in her head. Nothing she could do would stop
:> it. It was even there while she slept.  That could drive anybody crazy.
:>  
:> -Jay
:
:	But that piece of music was from the music box, wasn't it? - an old
:heirloom the man owned, and showed to Picard and Worf.  Had a couple dancing
:on the top, if I remember correctly.
:
:Lisa
:---
:Lisa Lombard
:ombard@amherst.edu

Yeah, thats where he got the music from, but there was no other significance
to the piece.

-Jay
From: jp929099@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Joseph Peterson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
Date: 30 Jul 92 06:15:41 GMT
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College

In article <64590@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes:
>What?!!!  Spock, a fictional character!  Say it isn't soooo!!!!!!
>
>:-)
It isn't soooo!!!!!!

--
******************************************************************
* Joseph Peterson                       |  Remember the name and *
* jp929099@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu    |  vote in 2016.         *
* peterjos@handel.ColoState.Edu         |                        *
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: NETOPRBL@ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu (Christopher Lane)
Subject: Re: Klingon home world name
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:04:23 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.011742.25908@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon) writes:
 
>In <711662762482@neptune.mcs.anl.gov> deboer@neptune.mcs.anl.gov (Ms. Jennifer L. DeBoer) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul18.225325.20862@spool.cs.wisc.edu> rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu writes:
>>>In <1992Jul18.014118.21796@reed.edu> odlin@reed.edu (Iain Odlin) writes:
>>> 1) The homeworld in Star Trek VI is
>>>called "Kronos", and 2) Star Trek VI makes it clear that Kronos will be
>
>>I thought that Kronos was a MOON, not a planet.
>
>No, the moon was Praxis (or something close to that :-)
>
>Another moon was Endor, but that's another story entirely (literally! really!
>:-) :-)
>
hmmmm if I remember correctly the book based on the movie never actually
names the klingon homeworld....all references to Kronos are references to
the Chancellor's ship, with the home of the klingons being merely called
'the klingon homeworld'.
=================
netoprbl@ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu
christopher lane
north carolina state univeristy
raleigh, north carolina
==================
From: tjw@vms.cis.pitt.edu (TJ Wood)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Guinan's Secret
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:31:29 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Jul21.233732.3521@arizona.edu>, CASTILLO@nauvax.ucc.nau.edu (Ulysses Castillo) writes:

> (imp if I remember right).  It is possible that Guinan is somehow immune to 
> Q's mental games AND his mental POWERS.  At the very least, I have never 
> seen Q actually go anywhere NEAR Guinan, nor have I ever seen Guinan anywhere
> near afraid of Q or his powers.  And you would think she should be VERY
> afraid of Q if she is afraid of the Borg.

It wouldn't be surprising to find out that Guinan is almost (or just as)
powerful as Q.  Only her race believe in their own "prime directive" (more
than Picard does :-P) and so they don't screw around with races, but rather
just "watch" them.  

(Sort of the concept of Marvel Comic's WATCHER that used to show up in the
Fantastic Four now and then.  Except HE was always breaking his oath, just
like Picard!  Now that I think about it, Picard and THE WATCHER look a lot
alike! :-P)

This has some problems with why her race was trashed by the Borg though.

I will bet that there will be quite a "twist" to Guinan's people that will
be completely unexpected!

In reagard to Guinan's strange hand gesture whenever she and Q meet: maybe
Guinan is just giving Q the "finger" in her own way. ;-)

Terry
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current,rec.arts.startrek.misc,rec.arts.startrek.tech
From: cs106b16@umbc5.umbc.edu (cs106b16)
Subject: Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus, Academic Computing Services
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 17:20:53 GMT

I just rewatched STVI:TUC on home video and was able to analyze certain things
a little better in my home that I was unable to do at the theater. Maybe some
of you can answer them:

1) First of all Chronos One is a ship, but I think you guys are right about
Chronos also being the planet. However, it was to be abandoned so by the time
of ST:TNG it probably isn't the planet any longer.

2) When the mention of Romulan Ale being illegal pops up Kirk says they are
1000 light-years from Starfleet HQ. How long is this movie (their perspective)
anyway? Even at Warp 10 it would take a full year to get 1000 ly and I doubt
they were going that fast!

3) When the Klingons were under 0 g and were shoot they were thrown backwards.
Why should this be? A phaser beam has no mass, thus no momentum! By the law of
momentum they should have stayed exactly where they were 0 g or not.

4) When playing the detective Spock mentioned that an ancestor of his or
something to that extent once said something along the lines of, "When that
which is impossible is eliminated, that which remains, however improbable,
must be the truth". If I am not mistaken it was Sherlock Holmes (fictional?)
who is given credit for this quote.
From: runyan@cup.hp.com (Mark Runyan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Cause & Effect:  2 questions
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:09:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: cup.Bs1zG1.Bpt
Distribution: rec.arts.startrek.current
Organization: HP, Cupertino, CA, USA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

smargari@nmsu.edu (Susan Margarit) writes:
>My question:  Did the enterprise crew die each time they went through
>the loop, and if so, how would you explain how they were "resurrected"?

Hmmm.  The implication is that the explostion caused the loop, but that
the people may not have died.  Of course, this would have required that
the matter/anti-matter explosion in the core of the ship have caused
enough of a rip to push the people back through the space/time rip and
restarted the loop.  Or, we can just realize that the entire idea of
the loop does not require that they be "resurrected", as it is merely
a causality loop, and the fact that they didn't die in the end means
that the other "deaths" didn't really happen...  

Playing with space and time can be soooo much fun.

>My husbands question:  How come on a ship of over 1000 persons, were
>there only 5 couples "getting it on" (so to speak)? :)  :)  :)

Well, the implication is that only a few conversations were passed
through the distortion, not *all* the conversations.  On the other hand,
they were only conversations and maybe the rest of the couples just
didn't talk?  :-)

Mark Runyan
From: jeffery@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (JEFFERY ERIC ROBERT)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Cause & Effect:  2 questions
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:21:50 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1992Jul27.164913.15727@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> wct@po.CWRU.Edu (William C. Thompson) writes:
>
>In a previous article, runyan@cup.hp.com (Mark Runyan) says:
>
>>smargari@nmsu.edu (Susan Margarit) writes:
>>
>>>My husbands question:  How come on a ship of over 1000 persons, were
>>>there only 5 couples "getting it on" (so to speak)? :)  :)  :)
>>

This is probably because it was at a certain time- not over a period.  Don't 
forget that Dr. Crusher only recorded 6.2 seconds.
>
[I'm new to the net, but enjoying it so far]

"Captain, I am *NOT* a merry man"- Worf in QPid
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: ellis@ultra.enet.dec.com (David Ellis  28-Jul-1992 0942)
Subject: Re: Which episode was this??
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 06:40:30 PDT
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efisch@cs.utexas.edu (Eric A. Fisch) asks:

> which episode had Wesley put in command of a group of people working on some
> engineering problem? 

_Pen Pals_, from the second season.

----
David  J  Ellis
Digital Equipment Corporation, Secure Systems Group 
Mailstop LKG2-1/R08 
550 King Street, Littleton MA 01460 
(508) 486-7332  
Internet: ellis@ultra.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Guinan's History (Hi
From: CASTILLO@nauvax.ucc.nau.edu (Ulysses Castillo)
Date: Tuesday, 21 Jul 92 23:38:52 MST
Distribution: world,local
Organization: The Camelot System (Excalibur)
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.05


In <1992Jul20.132633.714@galaxy.gov.bc.ca> gbrach@galaxy.gov.bc.ca writes:

> 
> More likely, it is her inherent powers, as they have been revealed to us
> already (age-old wisdom, good listener, enhanced intuitivity) mean that she is
> not taken in by impression/games that Q uses in his interactions with humans.
> JMHO...

Hmm... while I think that these are good points, I think that there has to 
be a bit more to it.  That is, whenever Q comes around, Guinan spreads her
hands in that funny way she does.  And Q always calls her bad names and such
(imp if I remember right).  It is possible that Guinan is somehow immune to 
Q's mental games AND his mental POWERS.  At the very least, I have never 
seen Q actually go anywhere NEAR Guinan, nor have I ever seen Guinan anywhere
near afraid of Q or his powers.  And you would think she should be VERY
afraid of Q if she is afraid of the Borg.

/shrug  Who knows.  I'm willing to bet money that the writers don't know
either. /smile

Ulysses/Belgarion/whatever

_____
Ulysses Castillo (aka Belgarion)   Trr, lbh zhfg or n irel phevbhf crefba!
Castillo@nauvax.ucc.nau.edu
"And be assured, I am with you always, to the end of Time.", Matt. 28:20


Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: dave@admiral.uucp (Dave Litchman)
Subject: Re: reviewing art (was se
Organization: The Admiral's Unix System & The Grid BBS
Distribution: rec
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:13:59 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.3208.8444@dosgate> "bernie wong" <bernie.wong@canrem.com> writes:
>>But Otto, "Shades of Gray" (note spelling of "gray", Mr. Quayle :-)
>>shows people the best of seasons one and two :-).  Think of it as the
>>equivalent of the letter or number grade.
>
>The proper British spelling of "Gray" is "Grey" among other differences
>like "Color" vs. "Colour".  Canadians, as you probably know, have
>adapted the British spelling system (there must be a better name for it
>than THAT!) as well as the metric system.  Just a bit of history for ya.

How about 'The Metric Spelling System', or, the decabet!


-- 
"Dammit Jim, I'm a free man, not a number!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a copy of the mnemonic signature virus. Remember to copy it into
your .signature file later. Join the fun!
From: sacke@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Elizabeth E Sack)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Poker
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:34:26 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

>>that the clubs on a 2 of clubs card are hotter than the rest of the card, thus
> 
>>allowing him to read it?  One would think that the cards would be of uniform
>>heat, except in the places where they were last in contact with a person's
>>hands (heat from the fingers).  I don't see how this would give Geordi any
>>better insight into what cards his opponents are holding.            
>>Glenn Ferguson
>>
>>  
>When I was in the military, I got a chance to look at the FLIR (Forward Looking
>InfraRed) device installed on one of our helicopters. This airplane was parked
>inside a hanger. Looking through the hanger wall I could read the lettering on
>a sign (black letters on a white background) on the ramp outside the hanger. I
>thought it was really cool to be able to see through a solid wall.
>
>I see no problem with Geordi being able to see the lettering/pips on the other
>side of a playing card using IR.


The sign was readable because the black letters absorbed the heat from the Sun
while the white backround reflected it.  This could also hold true for the cards
Assuming the cards are white with red and black ink (as most cards are), the 
two colors, since they are darker than white, would hold any heat given off
by the lights in the room (if the lights give off heat).

This would make the shapes of the suits and the numbers stand out to an IR
reading device.  So, Geordi could read them.

An easy way to fix this is to place the cards against the palm of your hand for
a few seconds, since a human will definately be hotter that the ink on the cards
From: dmccart@gomez.intel.com (D. J. McCarthy ~)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Roseanne Barr Arnold on TNG
Date: 24 Jul 92 22:29:53 GMT
Organization: Architecture & Software Technology Group, Intel, Santa Clara CA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

tjw@vms.cis.pitt.edu (TJ Wood) writes:

> I hear that Roseanne Barr Arnold has been asked to play another of Riker's
> lovers on an upcoming episode.  Anyone else hear about this?

	Yeah, and somewhere in that episode she's gonna scratch her
crotch, spit on the comm panel, and sing the words to the TOS theme.

	"My LAAAAAAAAAVE is WAN-dring in STAAAAAAAR-flight....."

	Personally I think she's the only one who could do that song
justice.


--
D. J. McCarthy <dmccart@gomez.intel.com>
"An Ophidian is a snake.  This is not generally a creature which is associated
 with a significant amount of control over the space/time continuum."
                               --Bill Sears, rec.arts.startrek.current, 6/27/92
Organization: Freshman, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current,rec.arts.startrek.misc,rec.arts.startrek.tech
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 01:48:45 -0400 
From: Ritesh Agarwal Bansal <rb64+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country

In 1992Jul25.172053.24591@umbc3.umbc.edu  writes

>4) When playing the detective Spock mentioned that an ancestor of his >or
>something to that extent once said something along the lines of, "When >that
>which is impossible is eliminated, that which remains, however >improbable,
>must be the truth". If I am not mistaken it was Sherlock Holmes >(fictional?)
>who is given credit for this quote.

Sherlock Holmes fictional?  Beware of Sherlockians who take Sherlockian
World as seriously as we do of ST. 
As Starerett says " But there can be no grave for Sherlock Holmes and Dr
Watson .... Shall they not always live in Baker Street?  Are they not
there, as one writes?... Outside, the hansoms rattle throught the rain,
and Moriarty plans his latest devilry. Within, the sea coal flames upon
the hearth and Holmes and Watson take their well-won ease.... So they
still live ............... in a nostalgic country of the mind where it
is always 1895"

-:) 

The quote Spock used is from The Sign of Four.  Perhaps Spock meant
ancestor in a different sense perhaps not genealogical.
 
Listen to Watson's opinion about Holmes:
 "All emotions were abhorrent to his cold precise mind.  He was, I take
it, the most perfect reasoning machine that the world has seen".  
Holmes  abhorred emotion,  again in  the "Sign of Four: Holmes says to
Watson  "Love is an emotional thing, opposed to that true cold reason
which I place above all things "

Maybe Spock saw in Holmes the only human who was a true follower of
Surak, who had mastered his emotions and was a master of reasoning and
hence logic.  So Spock might have alluded to Holmes being his ancestor
in that manner.
its a long shot but its my .005 credit worth!

Ritesh
E-mail:rb64@andrew.cmu.edu   | 	       rb64@isl1.ri.cmu.edu  
Carnegie Mellon University 
______________________________________________________________
"The spear in the others heart is the spear in your own,
	you are he" ---------  Attributed to Surak.
From: Scott Gorcey <scottgor@jaflrn.UUCP>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Deep Space Nine
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 03:33:56 EDT
Organization: The Wizzard's Cave, East Meadow, NY

odlin@reed.edu (Iain Odlin) writes:

> Sean Duncan writes:
> > Uh, sorry...  It's *Kronos*.  Why do people keep making this simple mistake
> 
>   Because in the TNG episode "Heart of Glory," the Klingon homeworld is 
>   referred to several times as "Kling."

     An evacuation plan for Kronos, to come within the hundred year
     time-limit before that planet became uninhabbitable, was
     discussed in the background by the President at the 
     peace conference at the end of Star Trek VI.  
     Maybe they are different planets...  (And Kling is a stupid
     name anyway, which everyone behind the scenes knows: notice
     it's never been used again?)
> --
From: mwgertz+@cs.cmu.edu (Matthew Gertz)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Emmy Nominations for NE, QL and ST:TNG
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:49:33 GMT
Organization: Dept. of ECE, The Robotics Institute, Carnegie Mellon

In article <3665@vidiot.UUCP> brown@vidiot.UUCP (Vidiot) writes:
[Nominations deleted. (Thanks, Vidiot!)]

Costume nominations for CoL?  During most of that episode, it seems that the
main characters were doing their best to be seen *without* costumes!  I'm 
glad that TNG got so many nominations, but why do they always pick the worst
episodes to reward?  "Redemption I & II," "Unification I & II," and even "The 
Inner Light" had better costumes.  *sigh*  I'm still waiting for Patrick
Stewart to get the nomination for outstanding lead actor in a drama series
that he so richly deserves...

Nice to see "Northern Exposure" and "China Beach" get their due as well,
although, in the case of NE, like TNG, not for the episodes I'd've picked
(except "Cicely" !!)  ST:TNG and "Northern Exposure" must be about the only
non-PBS shows I watch anymore.  One can hope that ST:DS9 might expand this
list, but I dunno...
-- 
Matt Gertz, mwgertz+@cs.cmu.edu
Dept. of ECE, The Robotics Institute at Carnegie Mellon University.