HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: andersa@Riga.DoCS.UU.SE (Anders Andersson)
Subject: Re: Understanding language (Was: Re:  <None>)
Organization: Uppsala University, Sweden
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 01:27:41 GMT

In article <ANDERS.92Jul28005142@lise4.lise.unit.no>, anders@lise4.lise.unit.no (Anders Christensen) writes:
> Oops ... jumping to conclusions, are we?  :-)

Maybe we are.  What conclusions did you jump to based on my mere
use of the word 'easier'?  :-)

> This means that Norwegians, in general, have been much more exposed to
> Swedish, both in spoken and written form, than Swedes have been
> exposed to Norwegian. Interpreting that as Swedish is 'easier' to
> understand than Norwegian ... well, that seems to be a bit farfetched
> to me.

I didn't claim the Swedish language has some inherent 'easiness'
independent of the listener or the situation.  Your statistics
seemed to show that it was easier (in some sense) for a particular
bunch of Norwegian recruits to understand Swedish than Danish
commands.  You commented on the horizontal averages (taken per
nationality); I wanted to contrast with the vertical ones.  I used
the word 'easier' without further qualifications, thus leaving it
in the limited context which you provided.  I didn't intend to
explain possible reasons for the ease with which Norwegian and
Danish recruits understand Swedish commands; your suggested
reasons may very well hold a great deal of truth...

Neither Norwegian nor Danish is 'taught' in Swedish compulsory
school in the same sense as English, French or German is (unless
there has been a radical change since I went to school).  Under
the general subject of 'Swedish', some theoretical aspects of
both Norwegian and Danish are covered in brief, and a few
reading exercises are provided.  This is not a regular thing;
I recall it happened once and we spent less time on the issue
than on August Strindberg (oh, I forgot, they told us already
in 3rd grade or something that 'rolig' means something else in
Danish than in Swedish).  You hardly learn a language that way.

To me, reading either Danish or Norwegian is no problem, as I
can adjust my speed as needed (I have a hard time telling the
difference between the two languages in written form, though).
Spoken Danish is clearly more difficult than spoken Norwegian
for me to understand (only standard dialects considered), and
I attribute this to the (for me) inconvenient pronounciation.
I don't get too much practice with either, though.

	"Den haer historien forteller i korthed om en
	 drage der terroriserer ett rige, og der aer tre
	 skomagerso/nner der alle vil pro/ve paa og draepe
	 dragen...  Den fo/rste han aer klug, den andre aer
	 stark, og den tredje aer liten og uheldig...
	 Nu skal vi se hvordan det gick!"

	"Jeg vil ikke ha noen sto/vsauer..."

(Note to non-readers of Danish: This is too silly and pointless to
translate, and I'm not sure a single word is correctly spelt!  ;-)

Anybody from Fredensborg-Humlebaek reading this?
--
Anders Andersson, Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University
Paper Mail: Box 520, S-751 20 UPPSALA, Sweden
Phone: +46 18 183170   EMail: andersa@DoCS.UU.SE
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: f33012l@puukko.hut.fi (Janne Kivel{)
Subject: Re: Sweden as the country of cheap booze
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 09:46:41 GMT

magnus@nexto.udac.uu.se (Magnus Ring) writes:

>I have even heard that some booze at Systembolaget is cheaper than the
>same stuff on some of the tax-free boats and planes.

I heard the ferries sailing between Sweden and Finland have already
'adjusted' the prices due to Swedish price reform.

Finnish and Swedish alcohole monopolies do have competition so I suppose
they are not monopolies after all. :-)

>/Magnus Ring.

Janne Kivela"
From: co@bildsun1.mednet.gu.se (Christer Olsson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Question: Travel times in Scandanavia
Date: 21 Jul 92 13:25:03 GMT
Reply-To: co@bildsun1.mednet.gu.se (Christer Olsson)
Organization: MedNet, University of Gothenburg

In article <u9a9NB1w165w@student.business.uwo.ca>, dwerezak@student.business.uwo.ca (David K. Werezak) writes:
|> Planning a short car trip in Sweden and Norway.
|> 
|> Anyone know how long the drive is from Stockholm to Oslo, and
|> from Oslo to Bergen (in something smaller than a Porsche?)

I think you need 4-5 hours between Oslo and Stockholm. 

I`ve droven between Gothenburg and Stockholm in 3 hours, but in normal speeds, you need 
five hours.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: hallvard@immhp3.marina.unit.no (Hallvard the Horrible)
Subject: Re: Laughing at americans
Reply-To: hallvard@immhp3.marina.unit.no (Hallvard Paulsen)
Organization: Division of Marine Engineering
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 12:21:12 GMT

In article <1992Jul19.151602.16577@crash.cts.com>, rcf@pnet01.cts.com (Bob Forsythe) writes:
|> 
|>      Shoot, that's a pastime in any town that gets many tourists.  During the
|> years that I lived at the beach here in San Diego, we had a ball watching the
|> European tourists with their pasty white skin and bun-hugger bathing suits
|> come to the beach and proceed to fry themselves in the sun.  Disliking
|> tourists seems to be quite wide-spread.  One of the more favored bumper
|> stickers here has been "Welcome to San Diego - Now go home".  Take my word for
|> it; you hardly have a monopoly on laughing.

	That's good. But just to  make it clear. Laughing at somebody
is not the same as disliking them. (At least not to me.)

	Hallvard (the Horrible)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: cavande@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (MARK VANDERAAR)
Subject: Swedish email address? 
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 29 Jul 1992 14:07 EST  

I am looking for an email address of the Department of Electrical Engineering 
at Linkoeping University. Can anybody help?

		Thanks in advance,
				Mark
Xref: sparky soc.culture.nordic:4757 no.ef:7
From: roarf@stud.cs.uit.no (Roar Foshaug)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,no.ef
Subject: Re: Nordic Union (Once more...)
Keywords: EF, Nordic Union
Date: 25 Jul 92 17:55:49 GMT
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway

In article <1992Jul25.165313.5182@ifi.uio.no>, oysteint@ifi.uio.no (\ystein Tvedten) writes:
|> 
|> > As this is a no.* group we really ought to talk (or type) Norwegian...
|> > At least we're free from ae, oe and aa problems, but on the other hand
|> > this writing English to discuss Norways attitude towards a European Union
|> > may be seen as almost accepting the need for common language, etc etc. 
|> > Saa jeg hopper like godt over til norsk. Har sett at det er noen svensker
|> > som leser gruppa. Skriv gjerne svensk !
|> 
|> Uhm. this is being crossposted to soc.culture.nordic also.....
|> 
|> Oystein.

Automatically?

-- 
Roar Foshaug                                      (roarf@stud.cs.uit.no)
Department of Computer Science
University of Tromsoe                             'oe' is '\o{}' in Tex
N-9000 TROMSOE, NORWAY                            'OE' is '\O{}' in Tex
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: kkr42091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (QUEEN ZENOBIA!)
Subject: Re: Understanding language (Was: Re: <None>)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:26:15 GMT

Well how about listening to the radio in finland and hearing the first familiar
strains of your favourite song ....
and just as the words start to come on you realize the people singing are not the original band but something else and that the words to the song no longer have anything to do with the original english words.
*sigh*

but what is worse is when they play the american version a  few minutes later :9
*grin*

BTW the best way to learn the key important words in a language is to read
comic books :)
not things like mickey mouse but things loike calvin and hobbes (lassi ja leevi,
tommy og tigern, etc etc  ...) you learn fun words like flamethrower :)
(evil grin*

which, by the way, in finnish sounds a lot like the apartement in swedish :)


-kimberli

-- 
*******************************************************************************
*Kimberli K Roan          * "I have heard the echoes in the dark, * IRC: good *
*901 W Main -Bsmt.        * dim and distant voices of the past,   * luck in   *
*Urbana, Il USA 61801     * and I've seen so far into the night,  * finding me*
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: etxjdry@caddie.ericsson.se (John Dryselius TG/HB)
Subject: Re: scandinavian origin of english word?
Reply-To: etxjdry@caddie.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Telecom
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 08:07:13 GMT

>t88swa@tdb.uu.se (Sven Wallman) writes:
>
>>From Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary:
>
>>1 fuck \fek\ vb. [perh. of Scand origin; akin to Norw dial. _fukka_ to
>>copulate, Sw dial. _focka_ to copulate, strike, push, _fock_ penis;
>>perh. akin to L _pugnus_ fist, _pungere_ to prick, sting Gk _pygme_
>>fist] vi: COPULATE -- usu. considered obscene ...
>
>>has anyone heard of a scandinavian dialect where this word is used?
>

Well, I never heard taht in any swedish "focka" should mean copulate. To "focka" someone means to kick/sack him.

John




Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: jmarttila@abo.fi (Fast-Eddie Felson)
Subject: <None>
Organization: Turku School of Economics
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 12:25:12 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.104538.26285@klaava.Helsinki.FI>, viljanen@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lea Viljanen) writes: 
>>That reminds me of another problem: I've often noticed that the local
>>population on many of the tourists sites in Europe have a problem telling
>>the difference between Danes, Swedes, and Norwegians. Often they assume
>>they're all Swedish, and we get the blame for how our neighbors are behaving
>>abroad.

> That confusion may be planned... I've heard several stories of 
> Finnish tourists abroad, who have said they were Swedes when
> somebody complained about them.

	Might be O:)
	When I was traveling in Europe with a friend of mine a year ago
	it was quite common in Germany that we were thought to be Americans,
	in Berlin one guy thought we were US Army soldiers having holiday O;).
	In English speaking countries where the people could more easily detect
	our accent we were thought to be Germans since the German and Finnish
	accent seems to be somewhat alike. 
	Of course our nationality occasionally changed so that the reputation
	of our beloved country wouldn't be endangered O;). In southern Europe
	it's no problem being an American, a Swede or a German...
    _______________________________________________________________________
    Jouni Marttila - Yo-kyl{ 11 B 25, 20540 Turku, FINLAND - +358 21 374624
         jmarttila@finabo.abo.fi - jmarttila@finabo - abovax::jmarttila
From: viljanen@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lea Viljanen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: American wants to know Nordic impressions of Americans + Scandinivians
Date: 23 Jul 92 10:45:38 GMT
Organization: Pussy Galore's Flying Circus

pem@DoCS.UU.SE (Per-Erik Martin) writes:

>That reminds me of another problem: I've often noticed that the local
>population on many of the tourists sites in Europe have a problem telling
>the difference between Danes, Swedes, and Norwegians. Often they assume
>they're all Swedish, and we get the blame for how our neighbors are behaving
>abroad.

That confusion may be planned... I've heard several stories of 
Finnish tourists abroad, who have said they were Swedes when
somebody complained about them.

> |\/|\/|\/| Per-Erik Martin,

-- 
Lea 'LadyBug' Viljanen     University of Helsinki   ABBA: "I can see the
Lea.Viljanen@Helsinki.FI   Computing Centre         Sun through Open Window"
From: tml@tik.vtt.fi (Tor Lillqvist)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: POLL: 8-bit characters?
Date: 28 Jul 92 10:09:31 GMT
	<TT.92Jul15082535@tarzan.jyu.fi> <5145@krafla.rhi.hi.is>
	<PEM.92Jul24005911@meryl.DoCS.UU.SE>
	<KIMMO.KETOLAINEN.92Jul28014949@polaris.utu.fi>
Organization: Technical Research Centre of Finland, Laboratory for Information
	Processing (VTT/TIK)

I find this a bit depressing.  Nordics and others have long complained
bitterly how American computer & software manufacturers used to assume
"USASCII is good for everyone" and ignored the needs of European
languages with all those funny characters.  Now, these people want to
go ahead and use Latin-1 in e-mail and News, without any special
headers or quoting, before any better standard (MIME?) has been agreed
upon by the appropriate Internet bodies.  Isn't this as shortsighted
as allowing 7-bit USASCII only?  There are even European languages for
which Latin-1 isn't enough, not to mention all the other languages.
--
Tor Lillqvist,
working, but not speaking, for the Technical Research Centre of Finland
From: rcf@pnet01.cts.com (Bob Forsythe)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Laughing at americans
Date: 24 Jul 92 13:16:06 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet01], El Cajon CA

hallvard@immhp3.marina.unit.no (Hallvard the Horrible) writes:
>In article <1992Jul19.151602.16577@crash.cts.com>, rcf@pnet01.cts.com (Bob Forsythe) writes:
>|> 
>|>      Shoot, that's a pastime in any town that gets many tourists.  During the
>|> years that I lived at the beach here in San Diego, we had a ball watching the
>|> European tourists with their pasty white skin and bun-hugger bathing suits
>|> come to the beach and proceed to fry themselves in the sun.  Disliking
>|> tourists seems to be quite wide-spread.  One of the more favored bumper
>|> stickers here has been "Welcome to San Diego - Now go home".  Take my word for
>|> it; you hardly have a monopoly on laughing.
>
>	That's good. But just to  make it clear. Laughing at somebody
>is not the same as disliking them. (At least not to me.)
>


     Oh?  Do you often laugh *at* people you like.  Seems to me we laugh
*with* those we like and *at* those we dislike.  I'm not sure that my friends
would appreciate me laughing *at* them.

-Bob
rcf@pnet01.cts.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,no.ef
From: andersa@Riga.DoCS.UU.SE (Anders Andersson)
Subject: Re: Nordic Union (Once more...)
Keywords: EF, Nordic Union
Organization: Uppsala University, Sweden
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 06:59:59 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.175357.18946@ugle.unit.no>, njb@iok.unit.no (Nils Jacob Berland) writes:
> What about a Nordic / Scandinavian Union with Iceland,
> Greenland, Faeroe Islands, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland and
> the Baltic Republics. We have a 20+ million population, strong
> democracies (perhaps except the Baltic Republics), cultural
> ties, common history etc. As I see it, it might be the best
> alternative today for the small nordic countries.

Shall I interpret your 'what about' as a statement of yours in
favour of such a union, as contrasted to a larger union with
most of Europe?  Assuming that, it seems your argument against
the EC/EU is not about the aims and means of a particular union,
but rather about its constituency.  That bothers me.

If you (as an individual) contemplated joining a particular club,
what aspect of it would you consider most important for your
decision:  Its stated (or perceived) goals, or its present members?
Do you say "I'd like to join this organization because I want to
support its largely humanitarian cause", or do you say "I'd like
to join this organization because all my neighbours already have
joined or will join it (and those weirdos across town won't be
let in by us); never mind the purpose of same organization"?

If you don't need a union with Germany, why do you need one with
Finland?  Are 'cultural ties' and 'common history' really reasons
enough to take some power away from your present government and
give it to (in this case) a common Nordic government, or do you
simply feel compelled to offer a 'constructive alternative' to
the proposal for joining the EU, rather than a mere 'no' vote?
Do you think we (in the Nordic countries) have actual problems
dealing with each other, problems that would be solved by a
political union?  What problems?

One important issue (if not the only one) in the EU agenda is
the lifting of tariffs and other restrictions on trade.  Do you
really need a union to do this?  How about simply lifting your
own trade restrictions unilaterally, and expecting other countries
to do the same?  If they don't, it's their problem, isn't it?
After all, why should any decent government have a say or share
in me trading goods or services with you, which they don't have
when I trade the same goods or services with a fellow Swede?
Do you think governments have an inherent right to tax foreign
trade or something?
--
Anders Andersson, Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University
Paper Mail: Box 520, S-751 20 UPPSALA, Sweden
Phone: +46 18 183170   EMail: andersa@DoCS.UU.SE
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (Tomas Eriksson)
Subject: No lion in Finland after all...
Reply-To: tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 14:40:23 GMT

Reports coming out of Finland yesterday indicate that there never were
any lions in the Finnish forests. Some of the paw-prints seemed, upon 
closer examination, have been faked using a spoon or something like 
that. Actually, some prints had a total diameter of approximately 30 cm, 
which would be more appropriate for an *elephant* than a lion. :-)

I guess the lion sightings were becuase of excessive Koskenkorva use 
after all. :-) :-)

Tomas
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomas Eriksson                                          tomas_e@physchem.kth.se
            Surface Force Group, Department of Physical Chemistry,
               Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quotation of the week (30), from "Endymion" by Benjamin Disraeli, Earl of 
Baconsfield:
	"'As for that', said Waldershare, 'sensible men are all of the same
	religion.'
	'And pray, what is that?' inquired the prince.
	'Sensible men never tell.'"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: sooz@iastate.edu (Susan F Bradley)
Subject: Re: Shoes inside (Was: Re: San Diego Responds to Potential Dane Invasion)
Organization: Dept of English -- IOWA STATE UNIV
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 00:46:01 GMT

In <urf.712254394@sw2001> urf@ki.icl.se (Urban F) writes:

>>In article <1992Jul24.152618.13664@midway.uchicago.edu> rtp1@quads.uchicago.edu (raymond thomas pierrehumbert) writes:
>>> The only problem we have is that we follow the Swedish custom of
>>> not wearing shoes in the house (keeps things cleaner).  

>This is in fact not an all-Swedish custom.  In those homes belonging
>to the "upper class", the wearing of shoes indoors is common.
>(I've only got a little 1:st hand experience, so I don't know _how_
>common it is _today_, or if it changes over time.)
>-- 
> Urban Fredriksson  (more info in header)  Stupid ASCII map of Sweden: /

I was an au pair for a titled family in Sk}ne for awhile (He was a grev. I 
guess that is a count in English) and was told that I had to wear shoes in 
the house. (Which really annoyed me because I hate to wear shoes in the house)
I don't know if the shoes-in-the-house thing had anything to do with being
an "upper class" family or whether it was just because the woman was difficult.

Sooz
sooz@iastate.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: laku@vipunen.hut.fi (Lauri H Eklin)
Subject: Re: Understanding language (Was: Re:  <None>)
Reply-To: laku@vipunen.hut.fi (Lauri H Eklin)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:16:41 GMT

In article <TT.92Jul28093402@tarzan.jyu.fi> tt@tarzan.jyu.fi (Tapani Tarvainen) writes:

>It might've been fun to see Finns included in that comparison ... 
>
>I think it's a fairly safe bet that about 0% of Danes and Norwegians
>understand Finnish; Sweden has a substantial Finnish minority so there
>the figure might be a couple of percent (maybe even 5?).  The other
>way guessing is harder (depends on what level of understanding is
>required), but I'd say maybe 10% of Finns understand Swedish, somewhat
>fewer Norwegian, and 0% Danish.  (This is based on a sample of 1
>people and mystical insight.  Anybody feel like contradicting it with
>facts?)

	Well, nobody except the esthonians understand finnish but
I remember using my 6-years-at-school swedish with the my
finnish accent (intonation, rhythm, etc) and some danes told me that
it was much more understandable than that of some swede. Maybe it's that
I was speaking a bit slower so it was easier to follow what I was
trying to express. And as it was a tablefull of nordic people in
the middle of europe, there was of course the obligatory 3 liters
of beer and this element always adds a kind of a  boost-effect into
ones' linguistical capabilities. 
	BTW, some swedish friends told me that the "finlandssvenska"
is the best-sounding version of the group swedish/norwegian/danish..
and it was an opinion of not only one or two people!


Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: Mika.Paakko@lut.fi (Mika Paakko)
Subject: Re: Importing goods from the U.S.????
Date: 30 Jul 92 00:10:54
Reply-To: Mika.Paakko@lut.fi
Organization: Lappeenranta University of Technology, Finland

In article <jsamuels.1@lawlab_2.vill.edu> jsamuels@lawlab_2.vill.edu (Jeffrey Samuelson) writes:

> In article <1992Jul29.185934.1@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi> pbrown@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi writes:

> >  I have an item in mind that is available in the U.S. (yes, it's a legal
> >substance!) which Finns have never seen before, and which I believe
> >could go over quite well here.  I have absolutely no idea where to 
...
> Let me guess, Crime or Peanut Butter :)........ 

But: we've seen the both already!!! B-D
--
____________________________________________________________________________
 _ _ _                 ____                        Mika.Paakko@lut.fi
' ) ) )    /         /  /  )           /   /       Lappeenranta U of Tech.,
 / / / o /_  __     (  /__/ __   __   /_  /_  __   FINLAND
/ ' (_<_/ <_(_/(_   <_/   _(_/(_(_/(_/ <_/ <_/_/-  All of my opinions are mine!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: dudley.chi@xerox.com (Tim Dudley)
Subject: Norwegians in Formula 1 ?
Followup-To: soc.culture.nordic, rec.autos.sport
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:27:31 GMT



This post came out in rec.autos.sport, and caused me to wonder a couple
of things.  (This is assuming that Scandia Motorsports and Norwegian
Cruise Lines have some Nordic connection other than just the names.):

>Al Unser Jr. will drive one of Tom Milner's '91 Chevrolet
>Intrepid GTPs at Portland this coming weekend.
>
>The car will be prepped by Scandia Motorsports in Redmond,
>Washington and is sponsored by Scandia, Norwegian Cruise
>Lines and General Rent a Car. 

This is the second timein the last few weeks that I've seen a Norwegian 
connection involved in sponsorship (the other one being Norsk Hydro). 
Presumably, the Portland sponsorship is local, but it raises an interesting
question.  With Al Unser Jr. almost certainly moving to F1, does he have,
or is he going for, a Norwegian  sponsor?  If, so, why (from the sponsor's 
point of view)? Is there any interest in Formula 1 in Norway?  

I never thought of this before, but with the Swedes producing drivers
like Ronnie Peterson, and the Finns producing drivers like Keke Rosberg,
how come the Norwegians haven't ever had a driver in F1?  (Or have
they?)

Tim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic