From: jswan@elaine10.Stanford.EDU (Jerold Loren Swan)
Subject: Tom Brown re-post
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Distribution: rec.backcountry
Date: 21 Jan 93 13:42:40


tim@unislc.uucp asked if anyone had saved the recent Tom Brown Jr. debate.

I saved part of it, and tried to email it to tim@unislc.uucp, but the mailer
says it can't connect to that address, so I'll just re-post it.

The following two articles came after the posting of an article praising
Tom Brown's program, which I didn't save.  The thread died out after the 
third article.

I'm not taking any position on this "controversy," just re-posting the
articles.

If anybody is interested in discussing wilderness survival, tracking,
primitive technology, etc, please email me.


Jay Swan
Records & Documents
Bechtel International Center, Stanford University
jswan@leland.stanford.edu


----------------------------------


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: gheller@luke.wsu.edu (Geoffrey Heller)
Subject: TOM BROWN IS A FRAUD
Originator: gheller@luke.eecs.wsu.edu
Organization: Washington State University!
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 92 18:22:35 GMT

                              TOM BROWN IS A FRAUD
                             ======================

I have been reading Tom Brown's books ever since he started writing.  I read
the first editions of "The Tracker" and "Tom Brown's Field Guide to 
Wilderness Survival."  Unfortunately, the quality of his books has degraded
steadily over the years and I am now convinced that "America's most respected
outdoorsman" is a complete fraud.

His first two books were good.  I really enjoyed "The Tracker" and "Tom 
Brown's Field Guide to Wilderness Survival".  These two books -- if any --
represent what I believe was once the "true" Tom Brown.  All the books which
followed varied wildly in their content and prose.  It is almost as if they
were written by different people.  Rampant contradictions are commonplace,
and in particular he loves to tell about how wonderful his connections to the
spiritual world are while completely "forgetting" to include any details
about what it is he actually does.  "The Search" was incredibly egotistical,
while in "The Quest" he was a doomsayer -- foreboding the end of the world.  
(Of course, only those who are "close to the earth" -- i.e. follow his
philosophy -- will survive this.)  If he so loves the wilderness, then why
is he still living in New Jersy of all places?  Why not the Northern Canadian
Rockies (where he said he'd move his family to if he ever got the sign that 
the world was coming to an end).  The answer -- money.  (more on this later)   

You may wonder why I bother to read his books if they are so bad.  Well, I
have been reading his books for a long time now.  Some part of me really
wants to believe what he writes.  I am an environmentalist, and I have lived
most of my life close to wilderness.  I have been taught wilderness
skills by a man trained by an "old school" Native American.  I was practicing
wilderness survival since I was eight years old and most recently survived in
the frigid cold of Alaska.  I have so many things in common with the man, and 
in the days of "The Tracker" I really believed in him.  I did not start out as
a cynic -- I was made cynical over the course of years.  I still hold out hope
for Tom Brown, but of late I have gotten to the point where I really doubt if
Stalking Wolf ever actually lived.

Tom Brown has always claimed to be knowledgeable in the ways of Native
American spirituality.  Lately, he has upgraded his status and is now billing
himself as a sort of "white man's shaman."  He tells his students of the
usual "spiritual healing" while also noting that they aren't yet free of the
need for modern medicine.  He can sell his medicine but he refuses to believe
in it.  But what can you expect from a man who regularly builds his sweat
lodges from black tarpulin plastic.

The ability to track a mouse on moss is only impressive to someone who has
lived their entire lives in the city and never looked at the outdoors.  Any
decent Search & Rescue tracker can do this and then some.  Tom Brown is a
city dweller's shaman -- not quite genuine enough to make it out in the west
where he might have to contend with a real Native American.   

Tom Brown supports Sun Bear -- A Native American spiritualist who is widely
considered to be fraudently representing native spirituality.  Sun Bear's 
new workbook boasts Tom Brown's support on the back cover -- while inside you
can find a whole array of ridiculous charts and diagrams most of which 
involve the use of magic crystals (some of which can only be obtained from
Asia!  How could these be required for native spiritual practices?)  What's
more is that the book is co-authored by this Crysalis person who is a regular
peddeler of "crystal-magic" type stuff.  I returned the book after the first
day -- the thought of Native American spiritual practices being boiled down
to a Lotus spreadsheet was simply too much to take.

Finally, let's talk numbers.  Tom Brown charges an incredible $550 for his
standard one-week class.  For this price, you get to sleep in a barn!  But
wait, there's more!  You also get to watch Tom smoke (while standing in front
of a no-smoking sign -- he smokes, you don't, get it?)   You get all the
personal attention of a class with thirty or so people in it (hey! 
What's-your-name!  Get over here!)  Now think, if he holds only twenty classes
a year he makes $550x30x20 or $330,000.  Of course this doesn't even include
the money he rakes in on his book sales -- an impressive sum I'm sure.  

Now ask yourself, what does a guy like Tom Brown (claims to be) need with
$330,000+ dollars a year?  Answer - nothing.  He doesn't need it.  He isn't
worth it.  Find someone else to teach you wilderness survival.  There are
other, more credible, Native American spiritual leaders (some of which are
even Native Americans!  oooh!)


  - Geoffrey Heller
    gheller@eecs.wsu.edu

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Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: genglish@applelink.apple.com (Gary English)
Subject: Re:  Tom Brown is a fraud
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1992 23:48:19 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer
Followup-To: rec.backcountry


My friend Kevin has something to say about Tom...

Gary, 
Once again my friend, could you forward this for me?  You sent me "Tom
Brown is a Fraud."  I want to respond.   If this is a discussion, add it to
the fray.  I thought about it for a while and decided that I couldn't let
it go. 
Thanks.




Geoffrey,

It was obvious from your response that you have some type of bone to pick
with Tom Brown based on his writings.  For example, you have found them to
have varied in style .  If you look at them you will find they were
co-written by different people.  I hardly find that to be evidence of a
fraud.  It seems more like a change or two in editors.  You mention rampant
contradictions, but fail to mention any.  I have noticed a slight variation
in how Tom tells his stories in person vs. how they are written, but the
contridictions are in details and not content and don't alter the impact or
learning value of the stories at all.  I don't always tell the same story
the same way.  Big deal.

You criticize Tom for living in New Jersey.  He was born and raised there. 
Also, you can't get any closer to the front lines of environmental war than
in New Jersey.  It has the highest population density, the most toxic waste
dumps - in short - a real mess.  The fact that he is living where the
battle is raging is comforting to me.  Better that running away to the
Canadian Rockies, (or Alaska).
 

You say you doubt the existance of Stalking Wolf.  I never met him either. 
And even if he were a figment of Tom's imagination, he is an incredible
teaching point.  However, having watched Tom in the field, having watched
him track, I can tell you he didn't invent what he teaches.  He was taught
by someone who knew what the heck they were doing.  His skills are
unparalleled.  He can track light years better than anyone I've ever seen
and I have lived in areas with some excellent trackers (New Mexico,
Colorado, Utah).  The best I've seen aren't even close to the same
league.  It is like comparing Michael Jordan to the rest of the world. You
also mention that Tom can track a mouse on moss.  Big deal.  I can too. 
However Tom can track a mouse across a gravel driveway.  That is a big
deal.  And none of the S&R trackers I've known can even come close.  You
obviously haven't seen the man in action. 

You also talk about having learned from an "Old School" native american. 
What does that mean?  Are you better than Tom?  I seriously doubt it.  Tom
spent 10 years living his talk in every environment imaginable, including
subarctic conditions.  

Tom teaches caution to the unitiated with regards to spiritual healing.  He

teaches that it takes years of mental and physical discipline and training
to accomplish that level of power, and that until one is at that level,
don't give up on medicine. Makes good sense to me.

With regards to Sun Bear, I have nothing to add or detract.  I have one of
his books, and I don't have much of an opinion about him.  Tom however, can
endorse who he wants.  Does it affect his credibility?  Not to me.  A blurb
on the back of a book does not invalidate his other work.  It may or may
not have been a good idea, but so what?  

Now lets talk numbers.  I feel Tom's classes are on the pricey side.  But
that serves a definate purpose in my mind.  I had to seriously consider
whether or not I was committed to what I would be learning.  The price made
me make that decision carefully.  Tom's reputation has spread to the point
that he has long waiting lists for his classes.  He could easily charge
$1000/ week and still have waiting lists.  I do similar work in the
corporate world, and typical training costs $1000 to $1500 a week.  As to
sleeping in a barn, I slept in my very comfortable tent.  I did not pay for
the Hilton, nor did I expect it.  Finally, what does Tom do with all his
money?  I asked him that.  He is very active and generous in supporting
various environmental causes.  He has a reputation as being very generous
to his friends and those in need.  He certainly doesn't spend it on flashy
cars, expensive housing, or jewelry. As far as I could tell he lives a very
modest lifestyle in a modest home.  He lives to teach.

What I guess bothers me most about your posting is that you are very
critical of Tom without any first hand knowledge.  You have never taken one
of his classes, you have only heard about them second hand.  You have never
talked to him face to face.  You don't know a thing about his character,
yet you have assassinated it in a public forum.  If you had been to his
class and were then critical, I could understand it.  But you don't even
know the man.

Finally, I can't let this one alone.  You criticize him for using tarps on
his
sweat lodge.  He has a large sweat lodge, big enough to accomodate 45
poeple.  It would take at least 30 deer hides to cover it.  The hides would
last a season.  Therefore, if he had used deer, he would have needed the
hides of420 deer to keep his sweat lodge covered this past 14 years.  Seems
a bit excessive to me.  Plastic makes good sense, and doesn't detract at
all from the effect of the lodge ceremony.  I have experienced his sweat
lodge ceremony.  It was every bit as enlightening as any other I have seen.
 Worry about the big stuff.  This type of bickering is similar to the
fighting I see among different denominations of Christian churches.  Don't
strain at a nat and swallow the camel.

The only criticism in your posting that I think has a bit of validity is
that he smokes.  Tom advocates a type of discipline that subjects the body
and mind to the spirit completely.  I found it incongruous that Tom is a
chain smoker.  I cannot reconcile this with his teachings and it is where I
believe his behavior varies with his teachings.  I hope he will decide to
stop, but it is certainly his choice.  Does it invalidate his work? No.  It
may be a stubling stone to some, but to me it is just a bad habit I hope he
kicks.

Kevin Reeve



Gary English
Software Quality Engineering Manager
Media System Software
Apple Computer, Inc.






Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing