HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Companion Plants
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 04:20:13 GMT


                     
                     Companion Plants in the Vegetable Garden
                     
Over the years there have been a number of suggested plant combinations that
work together in fending off insect pest problems. Actual research data on this
phenomenon is not well established.  Much of the information relates to the
experience and suggestions from gardeners. Some of this information has been
pesented in publications available from "Organic Gardening" sources. They
should be taken as suggestions and not as documented recommendations.

INSECT PEST                    "REPELLING" PLANT (S)
-----------                    ---------------------
ants ......................... pennyroyal, spearmint, southernwood,
                               tansy.
aphids  ...................... garlic, chives, and other allium, 
coriander,
                               anise, nasturtium and petunia around 
fruit trees.
borer ........................ garlic, onion, tansy.
cabbage moth ................. mint, hyssop, rosemary, 
southernwood, thyme,
                               sage, wormwood, celery, catnip, 
nasturtium.
Colorado potato beetle ....... greenbeans, horseradish, dead 
nettle, flax,
                               catnip, coriander,tansy, nasturtium.
cucumber beetle .............. tansy, radish.
cutworm ...................... tansy.
flea beetle .................. wormwood, mint, catnip; interplant 
cole crops
                               with tomato.
Japanese beetle .............. garlic, larkspur, tansy, rue, white 
geranium.
leafhopper ................... petunia, geranium.
Mexican bean beetle .......... marigold, potato, rosemary, summer 
savory,
                               petunia.
mites ........................ onion, garlic, chives.
nematodes .................... marigold, salvia, dahlia, calendula, 
asparagus.
rose chafer .................. geranium, petunia, onion.
slug ......................... prostrate rosemary, wormwood.
squash bug ................... tansy, nasturtium, catnip.
tomato hornworm .............. borage, marigold, opal basal.
whitefly ..................... nasturtium, marigold.

Reference:  "The Encyclopedia of Natural Insect and Disease 
Control" - Rodale
             Press, 1984.

Reviewed by:  J. Robert Nuss, Asso. Prof. of Ornamental Horticulture
Horticultural Department, Penn State
June 1987
PENpages Number: 09401183
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: Social control of Agriculture (was why)
From: marder@agri.huji.ac.il
Date: 19 Nov 92 09:02:48 IST
Distribution: world
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem - Faculty of Agriculture

In article <1992Nov17.142807.5922@nstn.ns.ca>, dc_ags@ac.nsac.ns.ca (Don Christie) writes:

I've very much appreciated Don's knowledgable contributions to this
discussion and pretty much agree with his approach .  But the following
sentence rubs me the wrong way.

> . . . (profitablity is not a crime; in a free market society i.e.
> a democracy, it is absolutely essential).

The free market is ANTIdemocratic.  The fundamentals of democracy are that
power is shared among individuals on the basis of their humanity, not their
clout in the market place.  Now if individual incomes are regulated until
everyone has more-or-less the same, then the decision making via the market
can become more democratic, but we call that socialism.

I believe that it politically dangerous to drive society in headlong
confrontation with market forces (look what happened to E. Europe).  On the
other hand ...
>
> so farmers did whatever they could to remain profitable...

Yes, I do remember this is a discussion about farming.  We want farmers to
remain profitable, but agriculture has an enormous potential to screw up
the environment.  There is always a way that a farmer can find away to
produce his crop cheaper (rather, at someone elses expense).  This is
the same for any industry.  Some form of public (usually government)
regulation is needed to make sure that the producers all operate under the
same rules, and that they can still make a reasonable profit.
Usually, the most easily operated form of regulation is setting a CORRECT
price for the inputs and outputs.  If you want farmers to use less
fertilizer, you can raise its price and pass on the cost to the consumer.
The correct price is NOT the market price (which is set by production costs
and demand/supply).  The correct price is set politically (hopefully by a
democratic decision).  Farmers and corporations will do whatever society
wants of them if society is willing to set the right price and accept the
consequences.


> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Who ELSE could have written The Adventures of Wild Bill Groady??
--
                                 '      Jonathan B. Marder
Internet: MARDER@AGRI.HUJI.AC.IL |      Department of Agricultural Botany
Bitnet:   MARDER@HUJIAGRI        | /\/  The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
Phone:    (08 or +9728) 481918   |/  \  Faculty of Agriculture
Fax:      (08 or +9728) 467763   /      P.O.Box 12, Rehovot 76100, ISRAEL
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: why
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 05:28:20 GMT

In article <Bxz29F.Fu9@SSD.intel.com> joel@ssd.intel.com (Joel Clark) writes:
>In article <1992Nov19.124636.20873@ornl.gov> de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov18.201703.22296@nstn.ns.ca>, dc_ags@ac.nsac.ns.ca (Don Christie) writes:
>>>
>>>NONE of the more obnoxious posters are commercial farmers, so it isn't THEM
>>>who would ever have to `toe the mark' they're drawing... it isn't THEM that
>>>would go bankrupt, and it isn't THEM that would lose their home and livelihood
>>>on the basis of ranting zealots!
>>
>>OK, raise your hand if you're a commercial farmer.
>>
>>I suspect if we were to allow only commercial farmers to post here, this would
>>be a very quiet newsgroup.
>>
>>-- 
>>Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)                Computers should work the way beginners
>
>Surely Mr Christie and Mr Hardwick are commercial farmers.  They have so
>much information at their disposal.
>
>While I do own 21 acres of farmland, half currently in Filberts, I have
>been unable to fully support my family with this endeavor.
>
>I have been reading this group in hopes of some valuable information on how
>to utilize the rest of my land to produce a greater (and more valuable)
>harvest in hopes of achieving a sustainable farm business.  
>
>My bias is not toward solving the "world food supply" problem in one fell swoop.
>I just want to deal with my small corner of it. 
>
>joel clark
>


Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith)
Subject: Re: why
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:14:25 GMT

Anyone who has been involved in government knows the power and
importance of lobby groups.  I'm afraid your attack on non-government
environmental groups is an over-generalization.

I don't think you need to make an apology to anyone; this groups is
surely a proponent of freedom of speech.  Ignore anyone who demands
things from you and don't take the newsgroup too personally.

thanks for your comments
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Symposium on Environmental Concepts
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 04:19:14 GMT

From MSUSCOTT@UKPR.UKY.EDU Sun Nov 15 09:53:57 1992
Date:         Sun, 15 Nov 1992 09:22:32 EST
From: MSUSCOTT@UKPR.UKY.EDU
Subject:      Symposium on Environmental Concepts
To: Multiple recipients of list AGRIC-L <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>


Meeting Annoucement and Call for Speakers:

Environmental Concepts in Agriculture

The Departments of Agriculture of the Regional Universities
of Kentucky, under the auspices of the U.S. Dept. of
Agriculture, are hosting a symposium on Environmental
Concepts in Agriculture.  The specific audience to be
addressed will be educators in undergraduate agricultural
programs of Kentucky and adjacent states.  The symposium is
part of a grant project designed to develop an educational
model for teaching environmental concepts in undergradate
agriculture programs.  Potential speakers or presenters for
this non-profit activity are hereby solicited from the
academic, governmental and private sectors of agriculture.
Of particular interest to us are speakers who may provide a
broad national perspective to this topic.  The Proceedings of
the symposium will be published and made available to
interested parties as will the outcomes of the educational
model.

The symposium will be held in the Louisville, KY area in
early April, 1993.

Potential speakers, presenters, or other interested parties
should contact Dr. Scott W. Rundell as follows:

Bitnet:  Rundell@morekypr
Internet:  MSUSCOTT@ukpr

Mail:  Department of Agriculture & Natural Resources
       Morehead State University
       UPO 995
       Morehead, KY  40351

Voice:  606-783-2633
Fax:    606-783-2678

Thank you for your interest in this endeavor.
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: Split this group?
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:56:03 GMT

In article <psmith.722123611@cunews> psmith@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Smith) writes:
>In <momotaro.722104274@cwis> momotaro@cwis.unomaha.edu (Bryan Stack) writes:
>
>>What do you say we set up a companion group called
>>alt.sustainable.agriculture.talk in which people can argue and call each
>>other names, and reserve this one for discussion of actual practices in
>>agriculture and their evaluation?
>
>You may be on to something.  I can only take so much philosophy.  I
>would be interested in seeing one of the following:
>
>alt.market.gardening
>alt.farming
>alt.organic.farming
>alt.organic.market.gardening
>
>I realize there is a "rec.gardens" which has actually been useful.
>But I'm more interested in hearing about commercial agriculture
>practices whether organic or conventional.  I'm interested in topics
>from soil conservation right down to pumpkin varieties and how best to
>display your produce at market.  
>
>The above comments aren't meant to be limiting...just food for thought:)
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: Urban Gardeners Needed in Russia
Date: 16 Nov 1992 15:10:52 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


  Urban Gardeners Needed in Russia Next Spring


Skilled urban gardeners are needed in Moscow and St. Petersburg
next spring to help train inner city Russians in small space,
high yield, community gardening and minifarming.

The call for training is the latest phase of an agricultural
initiative launched last March by the Center for Citizen
Initiatives in San Francisco to help city dwellers in the
former Soviet Union raise more of their own food.

Russian growers are particularly interested in bio-intensive,
sustainable agriculture methods.  The trainers will live
with Russian families in Moscow and St. Petersburg and work
on inner-city plots being offered by city districts, schools
and other groups and at nearby minifarms; they will also give
evening and weekend seminars and workshops.  For more info--
call 415-346-1875.


-- 
Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it
            looks promising.... |-)
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: dc_ags@ac.nsac.ns.ca (Don Christie)
Subject: Re: Real-world solutions
Reply-To: dc_ags@ac.nsac.ns.ca
Organization: Nova Scotia Agricultural College, Nova Scotia, CANADA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:31:37 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.172626.14620@cal.isac.ca>, jameson@cal.isac.ca (Kevin Jameson) writes:
>
>What is the Lysenkoist solution?
>
>The classic ideas for solving the sustainability problem that make sense to
>me are ones I'm sure you've heard before:  (1) reduce population,
>(2) reduce consumption of fossil fuels, (3) increase use/research toward
>sustainable solar energy sources, and (4) become active in promoting
>these ideas elsewhere.
>
>What puzzles me is that everyone talks about finding ways to sustain
>the current system, instead of recognizing the fairly obvious futility
>of doing so.  Why don't we talk more about reducing the consumption of
>the current system---until it's sustainable---and THEN concentrate on
>making things better and bigger?
>

the obvious futility is balanced off by the obvious necessity... 



//Don
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who ELSE could have written The Adventures of Wild Bill Groady??
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Subject: Re: why
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:12:58 GMT

In article <-1363802229snx@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au>, gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick) writes:
>
>I agree, Don. I get all this fruitcake mail at my end too, but few
>persist with it for long enough to bother overly much.

For the record, I've never sent personal e-mail to Don or Gil.

>In the end if
>they do insist on the last word, after you get bored with playing cat
>& mouse games and getting them *really* frustrated and upset, you just
>let them have it . . .

I'd be more impressed if you could *contribute* to the discussion here rather
than criticize others and brag about your private conquests.

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)                 Computers should work the way beginners
Martin Marietta Energy Systems           expect them to, and one day they will.
Workstation Support                                                -- Ted Nelson
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: why
Distribution: world
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 09:07:53 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <1992Nov18.165132.26262@nstn.ns.ca> dc_ags@ac.nsac.ns.ca writes:

 > So, in summary, I'll ask the question one more time: What is this newsgroup
 > gonna be... another alt.tasteless, or a forum where interested parties can
 > send and receive information about what we broadly term `sustainable
 > agriculture'?

 . . . broadly term `sustainable agriculture'.

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Subject: Re: GP wants you, was Re: government organic food purchase
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:39:42 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.134453.2164@nstn.ns.ca>, dc_ags@ac.nsac.ns.ca (Don Christie) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.042338.29982@samba.oit.unc.edu>, london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London) writes:>
>>
>>It's for sure we can trust those leaders who are supportive of natural &
>>sustainable farming systems, ones that use low-input regenerative methods.
>
>Why? just because they espouse production methods that you approve of? I guess
>it doesn't matter that our already fragile food production system probably
>would collapse form the financial hardship your methods would impose if 
>implemented in a rash way...

Who said anything about rashly implementing organic techniques?  Of course,
*any* technology can be implemented poorly.

>As I've said, we have to come to grips with the fact that current 
>production methods must continue until we find better ways.

I don't think anyone here's said otherwise.

>I admit, organic is one of those ways, but it doesn't even come close to
>meeting the requirement of a hungry world.

Why not?

>For your information, organic production
>methods are just ONE of a host of disciplines that are and have been worked
>on for at least ten years. Integrated Crop Management techniques pull together
>the sciences of biology, mathematics and agriculture. Plant and animal
>breeding produces species which are resistant to pests and diseases in a non
>polluting way...

I have concerns about genetic engineering, reliance upon hybrids, and the use
of monocultures, but that's a can of worms of another color.

>all of these things, when used, reduce our dependency on chemicals. How come
>none of you out there have mentioned them?

Perhaps because they're unproven, unsustainable, or contrary to our beliefs.

>Perhaps it's because you didn't know about them...

Maybe, maybe not.

>and that, Mr. London, could be construed as reason 
>enough to pass your flame right back at you.... you aren't informed enough
>to be able to contribute any insight besides `I love organic' 

How did you reach that conclusion?  Are you *that* sure there's no other reason
they haven't been mentioned?

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)                 Computers should work the way beginners
Martin Marietta Energy Systems           expect them to, and one day they will.
Workstation Support                                                -- Ted Nelson
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: Newsletter: "Growing for Market"
Date: 24 Nov 92 01:35:30 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill



Mon 18 May 92 
Newsletter: "Growing for Market"

Market gardeners are editing and publishing this new
monthly newsletter, containing details of interest
to professionals in the field.
Subscriptions cost $24 per year
in the U.S.; $27 to Canada; $32 overseas.
Sample copies are $2.00 in the U.S.; $2.50 to Canada; $3.00 overseas.
Order from Fairplain Publications
P.O. Box 365
Auburn, KS, 66402.
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Agricultural Waste Database
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 04:17:34 GMT


From James.Murray@ACENET.AUBURN.EDU Thu Nov 12 21:36:58 1992
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:31:03 CST
From: James Murray <James.Murray@ACENET.AUBURN.EDU>
Subject:      Agricultural Waste Management
To: Multiple recipients of list AGRIC-L <AGRIC-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>


The Agricultural Waste Data Base is a valuable resource for all
educators and research personnel working in areas of agriculture,
environmental protection and waste management. We are continuing to
build the data base by including all new materials as they become
available.

The data base is made up of publications, fact sheets, and
bibliographic information on research done in the responsible and often
beneficial disposal of waste. This includes on-farm practices,
municipal wastes, energy production, water quality, and land
reclamation. Although primary interest is placed on agriculture,
unrelated industries can often have detrimental and/or beneficial
effects on each other. Therefore it is important to build the data base
of materials from many different sources

We are presently in the process of updating these resources, and are in
need of any materials that address these important issues.

For further information please see the information provided below.

Thank You in advance,
James Murray

=========================================================================
James Murray                       | INTERNET:  jmurray@acenet.auburn.edu
Extension Associate                | VOICE:     (205) 844-5486
26 Extension Hall                  | FAX:       (205) 844-9022
Auburn University, AL 36849-5630   |
=========================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture,rec.gardens,alt.co-evolution
From: de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Subject: Re: Returning nutrients to the soil
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:56:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.140244.3935@nstn.ns.ca>, dc_ags@ac.nsac.ns.ca (Don Christie) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.104212.22503@leland.Stanford.EDU>, spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola) writes:
>>Dave Sill writes
>>> *Most* conventional fertilizers don't have trace elements,
>>> don't improve/maintain soil condition, and often leave
>>> substantial salt residues.  Not *all*, *most*.
>>> 
>>> ... isn't [it] possible that some as-yet "undiscovered"
>>> element/compound is missing?  Of course certain organic
>>> mendments might also be lacking some trace elements, but with
>>> the pot pourri of minerals in natural products, there's a
>>> least a possibility they might be there.
>>
>>Why do you assume all such minerals-we-don't-know-about, whether  
>>trace or otherwise, would always have a beneficial effect (either on  
>>crop growth or on the health of anybody ingesting them)?
>
>Right on, Stefano... and furthermore, Mr. Sill demonstrates another of the
>characteristics of the organic movement... they don't trust anyone's knowledge
>who differs from their point of view. How else could one come to the conclusion
>that there wer `undiscovered' elements/compounds necessary to plant nutrition?

Firstly, I'm not a part of any "organic movement".  I'm a concerned individual
who considers himself a conservationist/environmentalist, and supporter of
sustainable lifestyles, including sustainable agriculture.  The so-called
"organic" methods appear to me to be at least a step in the direction of
sustainability.  I certainly wouldn't go so far as to say they are the last word
in sustainable agriculture.

Secondly, I did *not* conclude that there were undiscovered plant nutrients.  I
*think* there probably are micronutrients we don't fully understand the
importance of, and I think there probably are certain plants whose nutritional
requirements aren't fully understood.

>Seems that anything chemical must, by definition, be bad.

Horseshit.  Don't be a fool, Don.  We have all come to terms with
"chemicals"--that's not the problem.  The problem is inappropropriate application
of technology.

>It's like 
>dihydrogen monoxide contamination in potato chips... its a helluva thing
>and scary too, until one realizes that dihydrogen monoxide is more commonly
>known as `water'! 

Oooh!  You had me scared there, Don.  Next thing you know, you'll be telling me
I'm being constantly bombarded with radiation!

Sheesh.

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)                 Computers should work the way beginners
Martin Marietta Energy Systems           expect them to, and one day they will.
Workstation Support                                                -- Ted Nelson
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
From: lanih@herald.Berkeley.EDU (J. Lani Herrmann)
Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture
Subject: Re: Returning nutrients to the soil
Date: 20 Nov 1992 10:43:39 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: herald.berkeley.edu

A-MEN to the plea for moderation: this is too important a topic to allow
it to be monopolized by flaming rudeness. I certainly don't intend to waste
much more time digging through the unpleasant verbiage to find the (now)
occasional really useful pointers and references, such as the newsletter
produced by the UC Santa Cruz Agroecology Program.  (Is this an unmoderated
newsgroup?  Why?  Maybe we do need a moderat_or_!)  -- Lani

*8^}&++] J Lani Herrmann * lanih@info.berkeley.edu 

Newsgroups: alt.sustainable.agriculture