From: sieh@panix.com (Nutella)
Subject: Re: A bushel of raspberries for Kolodney
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC
Distribution: soc
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 05:02:19 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.124216.16998@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> 
q2tj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
>sieh@panix.com (Nutella) writes: 
>> Just a quick comment here.  I found the above to be rather ironic
>> because from Larry Kolodney, I see the theme of how people are people
>> no matter what the skin color/ethnicity.  In other words, people being
>> humans are governed by the same sort of behavior, emotions that every
>> human being has.  That is why he is basically saying that there's no
>> reason to believe that Indians or Africans would not exhibit the same
>> sort of actions that Europeans have.  He's saying the opposite you
>> accuse him of, which is that Europeans, Indians (native), Africans
>> are the same and no one is better than one another.  You on the other
>> hand, seem to have been arguing that there is a very fundamental 
>> difference between the groups.
>	
>yeah, sure sure: "people are people"; now I've got to soapbox again:
>Sure, I have dogmatic beliefs too that there is a basic humanity
>in everyone.  But this "Great Humanistic Leveler" has often been
>used as a device to avoid actually looking seriously at people
>who are different from ourselves.  

I view it differently.  The very reasons that there has been so much
strife, suffering, bloodshed, inhumanity etc in history is because
of the fact that people do not view others who are different from
themselves as one or the same.  What occurs is that one group of
people will use every instance to ostracize another group, paint 
them in such terms as to basically dehumanize them.  It's so much
easier to destroy "animals" than a member of your "family".  

>If one insists that "we" or
>"cultures" are basically the same (e.g. conquest, manifest destiny)
>because "human nature" is the same then one need *never* bother to seriously
>look at your own culture that you are immersed in, let alone even
>recognize other cultures in their own right.  

You're confusing ideas.  Your "we" here =/= the "culture".  There are
people(s), and there are cultures but people do not make a culture, a
part of yes but not a determinant.  In your example, I do not necessarily 
argue that most cultures are "basically the same (e.g. conquest, manifest
destiny)".  These are your false interpretations.  However, I do argue
that individuals no matter what culture they are from share some certain
"human" behaviors.  Just to illustrate what I mean, I would say that
everyone no matter what ethnic background, are just as likely to be greedy,
hateful, violent, loving, caring, ignorant, fearful, suspicious, 
angry, happy, unhappy, etc.

>Also, this cliche "People are People" is a pretty weak premise
>on which to base a contention that Native Indians or Africans
>would exhibit "the same sorts of actions that Eruos have"
>We're talking about *3* *continents* with incredible amounts
>of variance on all levels (*difference*, not sameness is the
>important thing to look at for real understanding)  And respect
>for difference is not an easy trait to cultivate (few cultures
>even attempt it).

Why is it weak?  We are talking about *human beings* not cultures,
philosophy, economics, politics, sociology etc.  In spite of the
fact that we may be speaking of people from various geographic
areas of the world, the fact does remain that a person from one
geographic area will probably share the same kinds of desires that
another person has in another geographic area.  This would follow
at the socio-economic level too.

Sameness is *as important* as difference in understanding <whatever>.
The historical human tradegy is that people use differences to *justify*
their inhumanity to others.  

-- 
//Lui Sieh		|How seldom we weigh our neighbor in the same
Mail: sieh@panix.com 	|balance with ourselves.  -- Thomas A. Kempis
_____________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: These are my opinions...but others may share them as well