From: mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Sexist language
Date: 15 Dec 92 06:00:23 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <101955@netnews.upenn.edu> pezzillo@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Amy J. Pezzillo) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.163456.9037@hobbes.kzoo.edu> k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie R. McCarthy) writes:
>>gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:
>>>
>>
>>Surely you mean "...if someone tells me _he's_ a freshman, I get a lot
>>more information than if _he_ tells me _he's_ 'first year'..."
>>
>>Because, after all, the use of the third person plural as an ersatz
>>third person neuter singular is ungrammatical, right?  And
>>awkward-sounding besides, right?
>
>
>But infinitely preferable to hearing "he" used all the time.
>
NOT!

>>And, as we all know, there's nothing sexist about someone writing "he"
>>in place of "he or she."  People who have to resort to artificial,
>>politically correct non-words like "first-year" and the singular "they"
>>are uneducated malcontents with nothing to do, and they're making up
>>problems where none exist.
>>
>>Right?
>
>WRONG!!!!!  He *is * sexist when used to denote both genders, because
>it indicates only ONE -- the male.  

"He" can denote *both* genders when used in the third person singular.
The "sexism" exists in your *mind*, not in the language itself.

>Seriously, when you hear "he," do
>you EVER  think of a woman?  NO!!!  

YES!!!!! (if additional exclamation marks at the end of a statement
          could make it more true  :) )
The word "he", conjures up *both* male and female images, depending upon
the context of its usage. At least it does, for me! If it doesn't do
so for most people, then the problem lies with the *people* themselves
rather than the language.  

>Consider the following statement:
>"Every person is entitled to his right to have an abortion."  You
>thought that sounded strange, because "he" automatically brought up
>the image of men.  

I found it strange because the word "his", when used in the aforementioned
context, encompasses women AND men. *Men* don't have abortions.

If the statement were :
"Every person is entitled to his right to medical treatment.",
it wouldn't sound so strange!


>The only reason that "he" was ever
>accepted as denoting everyone was because males USED to be in charge.
>Well, no more baby. Women are waking up and realizing that we have a
>right to be included in those non-gender neutral terms.  

Why don't you redirect your energies to eliminating existing prejudices
in the minds of men. (that usage of "men" includes "women" too, just in
case you're wondering.) 


>So we're
>using TRULY gender neutral terms wherever possible, "she or he" where
>appropriate, and just plain old "she" once in a while to shake you all
>up.  

An exercise in futility. "Woman" encapsulates "man", as does "humankind"
"mankind". As Tim S. pointed out, if "his" were "its", "this" would be 
"tits"!  :) 
   Gender/Sex neutral language will do little to eliminate existing
prejudices in the minds of men. Take the example of Farsi, which is
a gender neutral language (as one poster last summer pointed out).
*Men* dominated.



>And you know what?  I don't CARE if you don't like hearing it.  I
>never liked hearing about "forefathers" and "mankind" and
>"brotherhood" and feeling totally excluded by these terms either.
>

You don't have to feel excluded, because you're NOT!!!

>ajp
>
>
>

Wake up Amy! Shed your prejudices!! And do not wage the war of the
sexes on the English language.

                                                             Mandar.                                              
-- 
"Imagine there are no countries. It isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or die 
 for, and no religion too. Imagine all the people living life in peace.
 You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope that some
 day you'll join us, and the world will be as one." - John Lennon.
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english