HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kirjner@diva.Berkeley.EDU (Carlos Kirjner)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Nadia: Cool Out / History & Scholarship
Date: 10 Apr 1992 02:46:10 GMT
Organization: /etc/organizaton
NNTP-Posting-Host: diva.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Apr9.233919.18389@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (perlman eric) writes:

>It is true.  However, Behnam, what is the chance that he could get a
>fair trial in Syria?  I'd say essentially zero, given his connections in
>the Syrian government.  Plus, there is a principle both in American and
>other nations' laws that says that if possible the accused must fully
>confront the charges and evidence against him.  This could *not* be done
>in Syria.  Your answer avoids the question.  Alois Brunner should be
                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>extradited to ISRAEL for trial.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>
>     Eric S. Perlman  <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> or <eric@lyra.Colorado.EDU> 



Here is an interesting question: Which Israeli law has he broken?

If he has not broken any Israeli law, why should he be judged by
the Israelis, and not the Poles or Germans (in fact, one may also
ask which German law he broke, but this gets too complicated)? 

Because his victims were Jews? I am sorry, but I can't see fairness
when a part is both victim and judge.

Don't get me wrong.

I would definitely like to see him punished by the Israelis. I just
have a hard time convincing myself that this is "fair", or that
it should be(and if it shouldn't why have a trial at all?)...

--Carlos


-- 
Carlos Kirjner                          INTERNET: kirjner@kuhn.Berkeley.EDU
EECS UC-Berkeley                                  kirjner@diva.Berkeley.EDU
Disclaimer:These opinions are solely mine and do not represent the views of 
           of the Electronics Research Lab. or the University of California.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (manu)
Subject: Re: Iran bombs "guerilla" bases in Iraq
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 23:53:38 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.202815.2675@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:

>> [David F. Skoll's stuff deleted...sorry David]


I have substituted PLO for the MKO (amond other relavent)changes:
 watch this....

>. I believe that the Palestinian Liberation Organization is a violent
>oppresive party which has its own interest placed well above that of the
>Palestinian people. On the occasions that the PLO has infiltrated Israel, it
>is my understanding that not [all*] the local villagers have embraced them as
>liberators nor cooperated with them and consequently the PLO have killed
>many of them as Israeli sympathizers. If these people want to change
>Israel, I believe it would be better for Iran and its people for them to
>try to work within the framework of the existing government rather than
>to propose violent revolution. The violence that they carried out
>against Israeli embassies and missions throughout Europe and South America
>and the U.S. (which included the taking of hostages at various times for a
>while) is testimony to the nature of this organization. 

	[Stuff deleted]. 

* I added 'all' to make the statment more truthful.


You see the MKO and the PLO are bery similar in tactics, yet I have never seen
Brad criticize the PLO.  I guess since Israel isn't the target of the MKO,
it's bad.

								-Manu

>Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)


-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            

Do unto others before they do unto you.
I'd rather be in Paris than here.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: Terrorism
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1992 09:02:16 GMT

In article <1992Apr3.190515.28427@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:

>You must love arguing, Ahmed.

Of course he does. All of us do; why else do we play on the net? ;-)

>Jake Livni

	-Nora

-- 
Oseh shalom b'imromav, hu ya'aseh shalom aleinu v'al kol yisrael.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Subject: Re: Want facts?  "WHO RUNS THE MEDIA?  The
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
Organization: Australian National University
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 05:22:21 GMT

In article 18739@ennews.eas.asu.edu, makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>	The author of 242 has repeatedly stated that Israel is not now in
>violation of it, and that by giving up the Sinai Israel may have
>fufilled all of its obligations under it.

I defy you to prove this claim.

>David Makowsky

Brendan.




Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (manu)
Subject: Re: Jordan is Palestine
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 05:26:11 GMT

In article <2816@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>In article <1992Apr17.005041.23148@muddcs.claremont.edu> gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (manu) writes:
>>In article <2809@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>>>
>>>Or I kiss your hand 1000 times. (And only if you use Channel #5 Pour
>>>Monsieur).  :)
>>
>>	How about Egoiste?  Uhh, by the way, Chanel #5 is for women, and
>>is different than Pour Monsieur.  :)
>>
>What about Egoiste?  Is that something you personally designed?  I happen
>to know that Chanel (thanks for the correction) makes cologne for men, and I am
>almost positive that it is #5.

	Egoiste is the new cologne that Chanel has put out for men.
	I didn't design it.  Chanel does make cologne for men: Pour Monsieur.
	For women there's Chanel #5, and a whole bunch of other numbers.

							-Manu
>
>Anisa
>
>	"From a distance there is harmony, and it echos throughout
>	the land.  And its the hope of hopes, its the love of loves,
>	its the heart of every man.  Its the hope of hopes, its the
>	love of loves.  This is the song of every man."
>
>		"From A Distance" B.Midler
>
>
>>Do unto others before they do unto you.
>>"The future of the Arabs of Palestine was sacrificed to Egyptian politics"
>>						-Sir John Bagot Glubb
>
>What happened to:  "I'd rather be in Paris than here"?  No one sent you
>plane fare?


-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            
Do unto others before they do unto you.
"The future of the Arabs of Palestine was sacrificed to Egyptian politics"
						-Sir John Bagot Glubb
From: souissi@ei.ecn.purdue.edu (Ridha Souissi)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Jewish Students Assaulted
Keywords: Jews Assault
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:59:27 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Apr15.192045.4512@muddcs.claremont.edu> gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (manu) writes:
>In article <1992Apr15.184524.13857@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> souissi@ei.ecn.purdue.edu (Ridha Souissi) writes:
>
>>
>>I think that the two Jewish students were asking for trouble.
>>They don't have the right to take pictures of other people
>>without their consent.  Who gives them the permission or the
>>authority.  The man selling the literature might have been
>>also asking for trouble by selling these kinds of books.
>>But are these books outlawed/censored? doesn't he have the
>>right to do it?  Please keep us informed on the process of this
>>case.
>
>	I think that the Palestinians are asking for trouble by throwing
>stones and therefore deserve to be shot.  Seriously though, do journalistc

Do you compare stones with bullets?  How many Israeli policemen
died from stones and how many Palestinian youth were killed
by life amunition? Compare the numbers.

>photographers always ask permission to take photos of their subjects?  How
>about those who do exposes? (sorry no accents on my keyboard).
>

First I have deleted the original article, but were the two Jewish
students photographers for a newspaper? I don't remeber reading that.
Maybe the original poster can tell us.  Second if they were
indeed journalists, what does the law say about taking photographs
of other people without their permission.  Please enlighten us.
>							-Manu
>-- 
>Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            
>Do unto others before they do unto you.
>"The future of the Arabs of Palestine was sacrificed to Egyptian politics"
>						-Sir John Bagot Glubb
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: Nadia: Cool Out / History & Scholarship
Reply-To: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago, Dept of Molecular Genetics
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 07:54:26 GMT

In article <s2vhiINN779@agate.berkeley.edu>, kirjner@diva.Berkeley.EDU (Carlos Kirjner) writes:
>In article <1992Apr9.233919.18389@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (perlman eric) writes:
>
>>It is true.  However, Behnam, what is the chance that he could get a
>>fair trial in Syria?  I'd say essentially zero, given his connections in
>>the Syrian government.  Plus, there is a principle both in American and
>>other nations' laws that says that if possible the accused must fully
>>confront the charges and evidence against him.  This could *not* be done
>>in Syria.  Your answer avoids the question.  Alois Brunner should be
>                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>extradited to ISRAEL for trial.
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>>
>>     Eric S. Perlman  <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> or <eric@lyra.Colorado.EDU> 
>
>
>
>Here is an interesting question: Which Israeli law has he broken?
Some of the same ones Eichmann was accused of.

>If he has not broken any Israeli law, why should he be judged by
>the Israelis, and not the Poles or Germans (in fact, one may also
>ask which German law he broke, but this gets too complicated)? 
The same issue came up 30 years ago in the Eichmann trial.

>Because his victims were Jews? I am sorry, but I can't see fairness
>when a part is both victim and judge.
Then who is neutral?  The allies?  The Germans?  Who had nothing
to do with WWII?

>Don't get me wrong.

>I would definitely like to see him punished by the Israelis. I just
>have a hard time convincing myself that this is "fair", or that
>it should be(and if it shouldn't why have a trial at all?)...
It's not fair that mass murderers go free (especially those who
admit to what they have done and are unrepentant).

-- 
>Carlos Kirjner                          INTERNET: kirjner@kuhn.Berkeley.EDU
>EECS UC-Berkeley                                  kirjner@diva.Berkeley.EDU
>Disclaimer:These opinions are solely mine and do not represent the views of 
>           of the Electronics Research Lab. or the University of California.

Leon Gross
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
From: sahle@csgrad.cs.vt.edu (Eskinder Sahle)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Bombing of Israeli Embassy
Date: 7 Apr 92 00:48:36 GMT
Organization: VPI&SU Computer Science Department, Blacksburg, VA

---------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:
The following post is written by Ahmed Bouzid and NOT Eskinder Sahle
---------------------------------------------------------------------
In article <1992Apr2> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:

>In article <2427> sahle@csgrad.cs.vt.edu (Ahmed Bouzid) writes:

>>Well, Jake, I guess the case is closed.  I am against all kinds of
>>terrorism, while you are against only one kind of terrorism: terrorism
>>that hits Jews.

>Not true.  I oppose terrorism aimed against Arabs, for example.
>I have often written about the terrible human and national tragedy
>that has effectively destroyed Lebanon in the past generation.
>I'm sure that such a fact won't bother you, though.

You write about "the terrible human and national tragedy that has
effectively destroyed Lebanon in the last generation"--but when you
are confronted with what is causing that tragedy, all you manage to give
us is garbled babble.  Isn't it sweet of you to be concerned about
tragedies, Jake, when at the same time you find nothing wrong with
the IDF shooting women and children?  How large of you to be so humane
in the abstract, but so stone-hearted when it comes to the facts of 
reality.

>Not a word of the previous postings supports what you have just written.
>Your sub-logic, Ahmed, is almost as low as Marwan's.
>
>Your idiotic postings that deny facts and logic, friend and foe alike,
>aren't worth the bits they flip.
>
>-- 
>Jake Livni
>jake@bony1.bony.com
>My opinions only - employer has no opinions.


It seems that with every post I write in response to you I have to lower
myself and soil my hands with the dirtness that for some reason or
another seems to give you a high.  I told you before that you are not
able to string up a decent argument if your life depended on it, and
with every post you prove me right.  Try it, Jake, try to argue with me 
without turning ugly.  Try to stick to developing a logical argument and 
fighting on the merits of your reasoning.  I will bet
anything that should you venture to do such a thing you would make 
a complete fool out of yourself.  And what's more, I have no doubt that 
I would reduce you to tears, and accomplish this without effort.  It's a 
challenge, Jake.  

Okay, having stated my challange, I will now proceed to stoop to your
level of discourse, lest you be disappointed, Jake, and we can't have
that, can we: Jake, I think that you are a frustrated boy, and my 
recommendation to you is to get  yourself a good lay.  That might clear 
up a lot of things.  You are--partaking in the usage of your favorite prefix,
"sub"--submental in your "reasoning", and on the whole, taking
everything into consideration, no more than a loud idiot.

Ahmed.
From: m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu (Michael L. Le Houllier)
Subject: Re: Jordan is Palestine
Reply-To: m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu (Michael L. Le Houllier)
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, N.H.
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 19:53:09 GMT

In article <kubierINN818@male.EBay.Sun.COM> peewee@playhouse.EBay.Sun.COM (Philip H. Stromer) writes:
>The World Almanac says that Jordan is 77% of the former land of
>Palestine.  The Universal Almanac says the same thing.

If this is true, what is the other 23%.
>
>The pro-Arab readers of this newsgroup dispute this.  Well then,
>why don't you write the editors of these respected almanacs and
>have them correct this in future editions?  My guess is that
>some people already have tried to persuade them to change this,
>but the Arab version of history doesn't match the western version.

Perhaps because we in the West have a distorted view of history, not
only in the Mid-East, but in much of the rest of the world as well.
>
>So for now, JORDAN IS PALESTINE.
  {needlessly repeated 10 times}

If 77% of 'Palestine' is present day Jordan (does this include the
West Bank or not?), the other 23% must obviously be Israel.
Therefore, Jordan AND Israel are Palestine.  Not this self-agrandizing
that Jordan is Palestine and, even though Israel was part of it
doesn't matter.

This is course assuming the premise that Jordan was ever a part of
Palestine, because it wasn't.  If it were, why didn't the UN just call
it all Palestine instead of using the name Transjordan for the eastern
portion, as both were given to the British as part of a trusteeship (I
believe).



-- 
 Michael Le Houllier           *  John 3:16  * Nov 12, 1991 - Dili      
 (m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu.us) *  Remember: June 4, 1989 - Beijing
 Go BLUE JAYS  6-0  v. Orioles   Fri (4-3), Sat (8-2) and Sun (3-1)
 CELEBRATE!!  The Strike is over.  Allez les Canadiens!!!!
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: spinoza@next03wor.wam.umd.edu (Prince Lev of the Domovoi)
Subject: Re: Want facts? "WHO RUNS THE MEDIA? The Alarming Facts"
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 06:10:57 GMT

> 
> >   >In fact, one of the early
> >   >Arab-Jew riots in the Palestinian Mandate started because the Jews,
> >   >who had been allowed to worship at the Wailing Wall (then owned by  
the
> >   >Arabs) wanted to set up a partition there.
> >
> >   I didn't know that the Arabs "owned" the Western (preferred term)
> >   Wall.  But anyway...
> 
> Well, you learned something.  I try to learn things every day.  The
> Wailing Wall name is much more poetic, so it is the preferred term.
> Western Wall is ambiguous, as it refers also to German defences in
> WWII.  If you prefer the Arabic term, it is al-Buraq al-Sharif.
> 
Perhaps you think the idea of Jews wailing is poetic, so perhaps for you  
the term "Wailing Wall" is preferred. Nevertheless, amongst the Jewish  
community, the preferred term for the Western Wall is indeed " Western  
Wall". Do Jews not have the right to name their own holy places?
Further,  is not al-Buraq al-Sharif the area which lies atop the Wall?
Please elaborate on how singing Hatikvah explains the Arab rampage that  
apparently followed. Please also explain how this song threatened Arab  
property. Were the massacres in Hebron (el Khalil, if you wish. The name   
seems ironic given what the Muftis instigated  here, but never mind) and  
Safed also the results of similar "provocations"? Heaven knows those  
Yeshiva students and elderly rabbis can be annoying at times, but do you  
really believe they were perceived as a "threat" to Arab property?



shalom vl'hitraot,

lev

"If I forget thee, O jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.
If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth,  
yea, if I prefer not Jerusalem in my mirth"
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Give TPM back to those who want to talk about the Mideast
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:53:11 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Apr14.203807.27039@wpi.WPI.EDU> nyh@sparkplug (Nevo Y Hed) writes:
>
>	Excuse me if this was offered before, I have been away from
>TPM for a while.  What about getting moderators on this group???  It

But that is the beauty of freedom of speech!

>is done in other groups usch as sci.virtual-worlds soc.religion.islam

And most people have their articles rejected since it has to go
through at least three or four moderators.  Besides, censorship only benefits
those who do not want to read things they do not want to see.  Couldn't we
just rely on the posters for their disgression and tact in deciding what is
posted?  Even if there are subjects not specifically and directly related
to TPM (such as the holocaust issues), they are interesting and informative
to read (sometimes).

>Thank god that
religion is not
that popular
anymore.

I finally got it majnoon. :)

And the number of that left-wing, atheist, pro-Israeli musician:

>(508)754-2491| 
		(Roberto Plant) :)

asinA :D

	Ques quo se, Monsieur N. Yaqoob H.?

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: Death Squads in Occupied Territories
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 18:45:02 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.153659.9972@dazixco.ingr.com>,
naftaly@supergas.ingr.com (Naftaly Stramer) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Apr6.174315.25246@ncsu.edu>, hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU
(Brad Hernlem) writes:
> >
> >But when the establishment itself actively pursues a policy of
> >physically eliminating its opponents, as the Israeli government is
> >doing, it is to all intents and purposes impossible to find any proof.
>         ================================================================
> >The politicians, the police, the army and Shin Bet close ranks to make
> >sure that the evidence is not available.
> >
> [DELETED]
> >
> >As for the counterallegations that those who have been murdered were
> >themselves killers, responsible for the deaths of the 462 Palestinians
> >shot for alleged collaboration with the Israelis, it is tantamount to an
> >admission that the squads exist. But that is not the important point.
> >The fact is that these intifada activists were alive when they were
> >captured. If there have been summary executions, as it appears almost
>                                                  =======================
> >certain, it proves the lie that Israeli society is one based on justice
> =========
> >and human rights.
> >
> 
> Brad, 
> 
> In the first paragraph you say that there is no proof, yet in the
second one you
> say that it is almost certain. Make up you mind, will you.
> 
> It is the same as if I'll say that in the case of the lat murder in
your city,
> there was no proof that you are the killer because you made sure that the
> evidance are not available, but it appears almost certain that you are
the killer
> and it proves that you lie when you said that you are not a murderer.
> 
> --
> 
> Naftaly Stramer (303)530-0441, FAX (303)581-0106    DAZIX, An
Intergraph Company
> Internet: naftaly@dazixco.ingr.com                  6285 Lookout Road    
> UUCP: ..uunet!ingr!dazixco!naftaly  	            Boulder, CO 80301
> Please excuse my English

For those of you who are confused, I did not write this article; it is
an editorial which I found in the Arab News (March 29, 1992). About your
comments, the editorial states that if Israel does actually carry out
summary executions, as some claim and as circumstantial evidence
suggests, then this is a serious comment on the values of the Israeli
society (I would say government). The editorial does not say that the
circumstantial evidence proves any wrong doing by the Israeli government
but it suggests that an investigation into these allegations is called for.

Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: How to post an article from the news media.
Reply-To: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago, Dept of Molecular Genetics
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 07:37:52 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.145308.28492@ncsu.edu>, hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
>posting. Jerusalem is indeed occupied territory and the majority of the
>world does not recognize its annexation by Israel; many consider the
>seizure of the western portion of the city by Israel to be illegal, as
>well. 
The seizure of the Western portion of Jerusalem?  What are you talking
about?  
Who considers this to be illegal?  
Are these the same people who consider all of Israel to be illegal?
Who is saying that the fact that Western Jerusalem is in Israel is
illegal?  Is the Knesset on land that was seized illegally?  

Do these people expect Israel to give up WEST Jerusalem in land for
peace?  Or do they just want Israel to give up all land 'seized illegally'
which would mean all of Israel.

>Brad Hernlem 

Leon Gross
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.