HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: john@sequent.com (John Vander Borght)
Subject: Re: Rules Poser: Advice
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: sqnt
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 17:08:47 GMT

jeffr@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Jeff Retallic) writes:

>'The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.'

>Sure.  But before we do, here's one new rule I'd like to consider.  Nick Faldo
>is often greatly helped by Fanny Sunesson in lining up putts.  Helped to the
>extent where she doesn't leave the line of the putt until Nick's at address
>with the putter aligned.  We've all seen this.  Apparently Johnny Miller also
>used to do this and it's all perfectly legal.  I understand taht Dottie Mochrie
>on the LPGA Tour has most, if not all, of her shots lined up by her caddie.
>All perfectly legal.

What they do is legal.  But, what Johnny Miller's caddy used to do was stay
behind the ball while he putted it.  That was ruled illegal back in the
'70s.  It is now covered under Rule 16-1f.  It is only illegal for putting,
not for other strokes, which is where Dottie Mochrie (and at least one
other LPGA player) have their caddies help.  Whatt Fanny Sunesson does is
legal as long as she moves before Nick begins his stroke.

>Given the perfectionist that our Nick is, how long before Fanny lines up all
>his shots?  Should it be allowed?  Can a rule be drafted to disallow it?
>Don't kill all the lawyers yet.

Would you really trust your caddie to line up your shots?  Dottie Mochrie
does it because she has a tendency to aim right (or is it left) of her target
and her caddie (and husband) makes sure she hasn't done this.

I don't see why this is a problem.  Once the alignment is set, it is still
up to the player to hit the shot and as along as they aren't getting any
help with that it shouldn't matter.  Given the way that Faldo putted at the
Grand Slam tourament, it obviously wasn't helping him much.

--
"Talking turkey to a businessman, you must look squarely at him during the
entire conversation.  It's the same with putting.  When you're talking
turkey on the green, the face of your putter must look squarely at the
hole."  -- Gene Sarazen

John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com
-- 
"Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!"
John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: strube@plains.NoDak.edu (Don Strube)
Subject: length of womens clubs
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:38:44 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Tuesday, 10 Nov 1992 08:25:49 EST
From: Jim White <JWHITE@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Rust vs Stainless

Cast vs Forged, Wound vs Solid, Balata vs Surlyn, U vs V, Graphite vs Steel.

One is almost led to believe the equipment one chooses is vital to his/her
golfing success !!

I believe the manufacturers have done an excellent job of convincing
us that this is so. In fact, a recent flyer published by the
GolfWorks actually suggests,  (literally) "Don't mess around with
your swing". Instead, the flyer describes a variety of problems, then suggests
the proper club to solve them all. The implication here, of course, is that
the proper way to solve a problem is to buy new equipment, rather than correct
the flaws in one's swing.

Now I don't claim to be completely immune to such advertising, and I do
buy/make new clubs every once in a while, and experiment with equipment.
I think I do this for the novelty, and to satiate my curiosity more than
as a result of some belief that the change will improve my game.

In any event, we really need a reality check here. The following are very close
to being facts.


A highly skilled golfer (say 0-5 handicap) will beat a less skilled golfer
(say 20+) in a 'gross' match almost every time. This is true even if the
low handicapper plays with Kmart Junior clubs, and the high handicapper
plays with Ping Zings, or some other overpriced set. The difference between
these two golfers is in the SWING, not the equipment.

One becomes a highly skilled golfer by hard work, practice, and gifts of
athletic talent, and mental stamina.


For the purposes of stirring some debate I'm going to suggest that all new
golfers should be advised to purchase used Irons of the 'Tour Blade' genre
rather than be advised to spend alot of money on new cavity back game
improvements clubs. These neophyte golfers should be advised to play with these
clubs until they shoot a score lower than 85 on a golf course with a slope
rating of 113 or higher.


Reasoning follows.....


1) There is (currently) an abundance of used Tour Blades available at bargain
   basement prices. The new golfers costs are kept low. Money saved can be
   spent on lessons to develop a sound swing. (A local golf outlet has a used
   set of Wilson Staff Tour Blades available for $90.00).

2) These clubs provide better feedback to the golfer re: the quality of the
   swing they just put on the ball. This more precise feedback should, over
   time, result in a better swing.

3) Once you gain a certain proficiency, (say 12-18 handicap), equipment choice
   may become a factor in your golf game. At this point you may be good enough
   to know what your doing right and wrong w/o the feedback from the club. If
   you still love the game, what the heck, indulge yourself.

4) Most of us who learned golf before the cavity back craze had to learn this
   way..... so should you.



Jim White
From: zureick@ucunix.san.uc.edu (John H. Zureick)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Dr. Joel's magic club on Northern Exposure
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:44:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: ucunix.BxIpLI.1A8
Organization: University of Cincinnati

In article <1992Nov10.151313.4107@ncsu.edu> sgskaggs@eos.ncsu.edu (Steven G. Skaggs) writes:
>
>Did anyone catch Northern Exposure last night(Nov. 9)?  Joel was using
>some funky-looking club to improve his swing. He said it was invented by
>a dentist somewhere and it helped him find the perfect tempo or
>something.  He later claimed that he could now hit a 5 iron 200 yds.  Now
>I know this is a fictional TV show and the club is probably fictional as
>well, but does this invention exist?  If so, does anyone know any
>details?
>
>Steve

I didn't catch this but last week he carried a Golf Digest around the
entire episode.  I didn't catch which one it was but I think it was
a recent issue.  They also did a story on the guy who lost the Masters
on a short putt and gave up the game all together.  Joel kept trying
to talk him into getting back into golf.

-- 
John H. Zureick					zureick@ucunix.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: manningk@iies.ecn.purdue.edu (Kent B Manning)
Subject: Trip to Kiawah Island, S.C. (Info Wanted)
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:09:22 GMT

Just wondering if anyone has any tips (pro's & con's) about playing golf
in the Kiawah Island and Charleston S.C. area? 

My Brother and I have planned a trip for 5 days (dec.28 - jan.1).
The 1st 4 days on Kiawah Island are planned as:

day 1 Ocean Course, day 2 Turtle Point, day 3 Marsh, day 4 Wild Dunes 
with TT at 10:00 or 10:11 each day, but have not picked a course for
the last day. Anyone know of any MUST PLAY courses with in 50 miles
or so from the Island? My be something around Charleston.

And what about the weather at that time of year, hopefully its above
45 f and not to much rain? How about good restaurnts?

Any Info would be greatly appreciated!

Kent       manningk@iies.ecn.purdue.edu


Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: rrmadiso@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Richard Madison)
Subject: REPOST: UPDATE ON GOLF HANDICAPPER
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:21:26 GMT



Hi,

	I am currently working on my PC based Handicapper, version 2.0.
I would like to thank those who downloaded verison 1.0, and replied with
many useful suggestions.  If you did not download verison 1, you can
email me requesting it, or you can ftp it from wuarchive/wustl/edu in the
pub/MSDOS_UPLOAD directory.  The file name is CCS10.zip.golf.handicapper.
	If you have any suggestions about what sort of stats you would
like to see, please email me.
	I am especially looking for the following...

	- Funny quotes about golf, by famous golfers, or anyone else
	- A Name for the program.  The current name Country Club Scorekeeper
	  doesn't cut it for me.  

Thank You


Richard Madison

rrmadiso@napier.uwaterloo.ca
From: JWHITE@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Jim White)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Dr. Joel's magic club on Northern Exposure
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:24:09 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System

I watched that quite carefully. He had some sort of attachment on the
shaft to tell him his clubhead speed. They're commonly available.

The club, however, looked like a Graphite shafted Ping Zing. Magic Smagic!


Jim White
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: warren@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (warren.a.montgomery)
Subject: Re: Rust vs Stainless
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:15:34 GMT
Summary: Technology probably does make a difference, but understand before you buy

I recently traded in my blades and precision woods for a "new
technology" set, and have some observations.

I was an 18 handicapper 20 years ago when I played regularly with
my old clubs, and played sporadically since.  After getting new
clubs and playing regularly again, I'm probably 5 strokes better.

Buying the latest stuff is always expensive.  If you are trading
in 25 year old stuff, buy a set of clones of last years innovation
for about 1/3 the price.  Anything you buy will be so different
from what you have that the incremental difference in play and
feel won't be all that important.

Buying a new set of clubs may be the stimulus that gets you on the
course and the practice tee more often, and doing that will
certainly improve your game.

I believe that most people who take up golf (or any other sport)
improve rapidly plateau at the "advanced intermediate" level (in
golf this is probalby 85-95 for most people.)  Getting past that
point requires either natural talent (very rare), or lots of hard
work.  New equipment, and knowing how to use it properly
(something I have seen very little discussion of in golf) can
reduce the amount of work needed to make a breakthrough.  In the
past year I traded 25 year old technology for new in both golf and
skiing.  In golf, I have yet to make a breakthrough.  In skiing, 
I found out that the new equipment allowed one to ski in a
different way than the one I learned 25 years ago, allowing
someone with neither natural talent nor infinite practice time to
achieve much higher performance than with the older techniques.  I
suspect a similar breakthrough is possible in golf, but it
requires the club makers and you to understand how the technology
can enable a different way to play the game, making it easier for
more people to play well.

-- 

	Warren Montgomery
	att!iexist!warren
From: jeffr@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Jeff Retallic)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Rules Poser:  Advice
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:42:26 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard SSG/CCSY-PWD, UK.

'The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.'

Sure.  But before we do, here's one new rule I'd like to consider.  Nick Faldo
is often greatly helped by Fanny Sunesson in lining up putts.  Helped to the
extent where she doesn't leave the line of the putt until Nick's at address
with the putter aligned.  We've all seen this.  Apparently Johnny Miller also
used to do this and it's all perfectly legal.  I understand taht Dottie Mochrie
on the LPGA Tour has most, if not all, of her shots lined up by her caddie.
All perfectly legal.

Given the perfectionist that our Nick is, how long before Fanny lines up all
his shots?  Should it be allowed?  Can a rule be drafted to disallow it?
Don't kill all the lawyers yet.

jeff r
From: brash@reg.triumf.ca (BRASH, ED)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: high end iron selection
Date: 6 Nov 1992 14:44 PST
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Distribution: world,local
NNTP-Posting-Host: reg.triumf.ca
Keywords: irons
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

>In article <ron.720467474@nixtor>, ron@sni.ca (Ron Jeffrey) writes:
> 
>|>I'm in the process of replacing a 10 year old set of Australian (PGF) forged
>|>blades.  I'm a 5 handicap, played Dynamic Gold S300 shafts and am looking 
>|>for something better.
>|>
>|>Upon some analysis I have narrowed my selection down to the
>|>following set of cast/forged irons:
>|>
>|>Hogan	Apex
>|>	Edge GS
>|>
>|>Mizuno	MP11
>|>	MP9
>|>	Grad
>|>
>|>Tommy Armour 845
>|>
>|>Lynx 	Parallax
>|>	Tour
>|>
>|>RAM	Laser
>|>
>|>MaxFli	Australian Tour Blade
>|>
>...
>|>Thanks
>|>-- 
>|>Ron Jeffrey 			Siemens Nixdorf Information Systems Ltd.
>|>ron@snitor.uucp 		2235 Sheppard Ave. E., Willowdale, Ontario
>|>uunet!snitor!ron        	Canada M2J 5B5       (416-496-8510)
>|>
> 


I used to play a lot more than I do now and I was down to a 4.  I bought
a set of TNT Timing Series irons (They are a Canadian Co., you may not
have heard of them).  Anyway, I liked the clubs OK but honestly I never hit
them as well as the $200 set of Spalding El-Cheapo irons I had before I
bought them.

Anyway, I shot back up to about a 12 by the beginning of last
summer and was playing about once a week.  I got disgusted and
starting looking for a cavity-back iron again.  I hit just
about everything imaginable and finally settled on the
Spalding Tour Edition cavity-back irons.  FYI, they look
EXACTLY like the Tommy Armour's looking down at them and
were about half the price !!

I hadn't broken eighty in about a year and I shot six
rounds in a row 78 or better !  I dropped to an eight
in about 6 weeks and have not looked back.

A lot of people still stick with this feel idea with the
forged irons.  For me, the place that I really appreciate
the feel is around the greens.  Well, with the new irons
I hit about twice as many greens in a round (usually ten or
better) because I end up ON THE GREEN when I don't hit
it totally square.  Before I would end up short right most
of the time on the slightest mishit.  Thus I don't miss
the feel because I am PUTTING a lot more !!  Amazing how
easy it is to break 80 when you hit 12 greens.

Just my $.02

Ed.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: jimv@dadd.ti.com (Jim Vahsen, 997-3607, VAHZ)
Subject: Re: The Feel of Forged (was: high end iron
Reply-To: jimv@dadd.ti.com
Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:07:11 GMT

In article 5836@naucse.cse.nau.edu, kwc@elden.cse.nau.edu (Ken Collier) writes:
>In article <1992Nov9.165517.10252@csc.ti.com> jimv@dadd.ti.com writes:
>>In article 1dl0vlINNk9d@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU, mjb@mulka.ph.unimelb.edu.au (Michael Beeching) writes:
>>>	Very interesting discussion about forged clubs, but
>>>could someone please tell me what the RESULTS (I know about feel)
>>>are like, when a forged club is hit off centre, as opposed to
>>>other types of clubs! Is the only difference in the feel, or
>>>does the shot match the discomfort?
>>
>[...]
>>
>>My background:  HAD Dunlop Maxfli Australian Blades
>>                HAVE Wilson Ultra's
>>
>>Difference   :  If you hit them both dead center, they both send the ball
>>                on its merry way.  No "feel" differences...
>
>[...remainder of subjective study deleted...]
>
>Vahz, you're comparing apples and  oranges.   In  answer  to  the
>question  above (with reference back to my earlier posting) there
>will be NO difference in the results when  a  ball  is  hit  off-
>center,  between  a  forged and cast club.  Providing, of course,
>that they are design exactly the same!

My bad, I was "assuming" that if you bought a cast club that you would
get a cavity-back club.  So I am comparing a non-cavity-backed blade
to a cavity-backed cast iron.  Your story of "feel" has grown tiresome.
I am beaming out of this frivolous debate.... 
---
===========================================================================
|  ____    ____    _____     __     __   _______                          |
|  \   \  /   /   /  _  \   |  |   |  | |___   /       Jim Vahsen         |
|   \   \/   /   /  /_\  \  |  |___|  |    /  /        jimv@dadd.ti.com   |
|    \      /   /  /___\  \ |   ___   |   /  /         Texas Instruments  |
|     \    /    |  |   |  | |  |   |  |  /  /__        ASIC CAD GROUP     |
|      \__/     |__|   |__| |__|   |__| |______|       (214)997-3607      |
|                                                                         |
|           Samuel Adams - Brewer, Patriot.  (Damn Fine American Beer)    |
===========================================================================
																				

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com>
Subject: Gallery Participation
Organization: Semper Excelsior
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:33:08 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

>DATE:   6 Nov 1992 03:15:42 GMT
>FROM:   Michael Limprecht Sun Micro Mt View. <admiral@m-5.Eng.Sun.COM>
>
>In article p00168@psilink.com, "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com> () writes:
>>which Palmer responds, "Why do you want it to stop?"
>>
>>And one you probably HAVEN'T heard, reported by a friend who had gone to
>>the BC Open about ten years ago.  Palmer had hit his second shot into
>>a completely unplayable lie, buried under the lip of a bunker.  Out from
>>the gallery ropes comes a 60-ish, grey-haired woman wearing a straw hat, 
>>print dress and golf shoes, carrying a large purse and a golf umbrella,
>>screaming, "Not my ARNIE!"  She races across the fairway, wades up 
>>the bank of the sand trap, digs out his ball, drops into the trap, and
>>speeds back into the crowd amidst massive cheering.  Palmer, unable to
>>get the ball to stay put, gets to place the ball in the trap where
>>it will.  Another routine sand save for Mr. Palmer.
>>
>
>I heard stories about Arnold Palmer fans standing behind the greens of
>of Par 3 and using their bodies to stop his ball from overshooting
>the green. This got to be so much the case that Arnie would just gun away
>on the par 3's knowing he would never be long.
>
>Mick
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>uucp: {anywhere}!sun!admiral or admiral@m-5.Eng.Sun.COM
>-------------------------------------------------------------------

I went to the Masters in '60 & '61.  In '61, at the Par 3 4th(?-don't
have a map handly), about 200 yards with OB behind the green, Palmer
blasts something off the tee, and it's GONE.  It was raining that day,
and everybody behind the green reached up as high as they could with
their umbrellas, and somebody managed to jump up and bang it back onto
the green.  I don't really remember, but it seems to me he canned about
a 40 footer for birdie.  If Nicklaus had done the same thing, theyda
folded 'em up.

But there's more!  I had positioned myself just ahead of the tee markers
at 18, right on the ropes.  I missed Palmer snakin' it in
on 17, but you could certainly here it.  When Palmer and Casper came
to the tee, Casper said something like, "Hey, Arnie.  Want me to hit?"
And Palmer said something like, "Yeah.  Thanks, Bill. Go ahead."  Casper
hit first off the 18th tee, even though Palmer had the honor.  Might
as well finish, now that I've gone this far...Palmer hit the ball so
hard I thought it had exploded, but it was just the tee.  He teed it
right on the top of the grass, and I think he even took a divot.  The
ball went about 10 yards above the ground, rising right up the contour of 
the fairway and took a right turn at the pine trees.  Absolutely
dumbfounded me.  At least that's how I remember it.  But then I was young
and impressionable.  







-- 
jim tims 
"And if you're a miner, when you're too tired and old and sick and stupid
to do your job properly, you have to go, whereas just the opposite applies
with the judges."  Beyond the Fringe

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: panu@sol.acs.unt.edu (Sittiwong Panu)
Subject: Re: Need Help Selecting Irons.
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:00:19 GMT

bstrand@cray.com (Brad Strand) writes:

>2. I liked the weight and balance of the graphite shafts (my 
>   current shafts are steel), but all the graphite irons seemed
>   very "whippy" to me...even the ones called "stiff".  Is this
>   normal?  This seems like something I'd need to get used to...

If you like the light weight of the graphite shafts, there are couple
of light weight steel shaft for half of the price.  To get them, however,
you may have it custom made.  For example, True Temper Gold Plus has a
raw weight of 102.63 gr for R-300 Flex.  This is about ~25 gr heavier than
a graphite shaft.  Graphite shaft, with a comparable flex, is typically weight
around 77 - 95 gr.  The price of the Gold Plus is about $9.50 to $10.0 per
shaft as compare to a minimum of $20.00 per shaft for the low end graphite
shaft.  For half of the low end graphite shaft you can get top of the line
steel shaft and also the feel of the graphite.

Panu Sittiwong
Academic Computing Services 
University of North Texas
Denton,  TX  76203                             Panu@unt.edu
From: john@illuvatar.duke.tip.edu (John Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Myrtle Beach Area in January
Date: 12 Nov 92 13:54:10 GMT
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@news.cs.duke.edu
Xdisclaimer: No attempt was made to authenticate the sender's name.

In article <1992Nov11.205703.1@sara.cc.utu.fi>
mibrunou@sara.cc.utu.fi writes:

> I'm going to go to the Myrtle Beach area in the beginning of January for 
> a week or two and I'd like to play a lot of cheap but interesting golf then.
> 
> I have few questions about the area:
> 
> 1) The Weather:   Is it cold or warm there in January?
>                   Any rain?
>                   What about temperatures?
> 
> 2) Golf Packages: Any cheap bed & golf packages?
>                   Any cheap but good golf courses?
>                   
> 3) Airport:       Which is the nearest airport?
> 
> 4) Courses:       What is the condition of the courses in the area?

1) the weather in January usually runs around the 40's to 50's.  As for
rain it just depends, I have heard of courses offering weather
insurance that you can buy that will refund your money if you get
rained out, might be a good idea to check that out

2) Golf packages.  There are many out there.  Check in your Golf
Magazines, I have ordered a brochure(free for the asking) that list all
the courses in the area and what packages they offer.  That time of the
year most of the courses are reasonalby priced. I have never played in
the winter, but in summer the courses are in excellent shape.  The best
I played was a place called "Possum
Trot" give it a try.

3) Airports.  Not Sure!

4) Course Condition.  Not sure of winter conditions, but summer time is
excellent, and I know they take great care in keeping up the courses,
so I would think that they would also be good in good condition in
winter.

Good luck and have fun! let me know what you think when you get back!!!

john@illuvatar.duke.tip.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf