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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 10:13:00 EST
From:         "JEFFREY R. GALIN" <WPWP@PITTVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Hypertext in comp and lit

David,

        I greatly appreciate you sharing your plans for your Storyspaced
(new verb? :o]) class.  Sounds like a workable and interesting plan.
I'd be interested in hearing how things go in your class.
        I too will be exploring the potential of hypertext in a Basic
Writing course next term.  My university does not yet have a site
license for Storyspace.  Instead, my students and I will be working with
HyperCard.  Like your plan, we will not jump right into the technology,
but will build on the theme "What is an Author" by working through three
short texts before we reach the text around which a colleague and I have
built a hyperCard application.  After working collaboratively in small
groups to explore the story in the hyperCard environment, they will
gather notes and reports they've written within the application to build
a paper.  We'll be spending time in class to discuss what writing papers
in such an environment is like, how it changes (or does not change) the
writing, reading, and thinking processes of producing text.  Then,
students will be asked to develop projects centering on one or more of
the concerns we have been discussing all term.  I will encourage them to
take advantage of HyperCard's possibilities.  We may do a class-wide
project (depending on the students' interests) to build a hypertext
application out of a text we decide to examine, or students may want to
research projects of their own.  In either case we will be exploring the
possibilities of what I recently called pedagogy as hypertext.
        The concept involves working on a consistent theme all term
which builds on the experience and interests of students toward more
complex and reflexive understanding of roles and processes of writing
and authorship.  We will be building a hypertexted (similar to
"Storyspaced" but more generic) class.
        Unfortunately, we do not have consistent access to a networked
lab, or even LAN software like ASPECTS or DAEDALUS.  We will have to
work with VMS systems, probably VAX NOTES for any asynch discussions.
Like yourself, I am excited about this experiment.  I'll be taking
notes and doing an as yet undetermined study of our work during the
semester.
        Look forward to hearing more from you.
jeff galin
galin@vms.cis.pitt.edu
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 08:44:00 CST
From:         SLATIN@UTXVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: is the end of "the paper" in

Sorry, Dave.  Reading too fast again, I guess.

John Slatin
UT Austin
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 11:43:23 -0500
From:         R_CONNORS@UNHH.UNH.EDU
Subject:      RE: Clinton/Gore

>Yes!


>dave roberts


Maybe. . . .but I don't quite anticipate the millennium yet.  I hope Clinton
has the gumption to do what needs to be done to get decent social programs
*and* start the deficit downward, but all evidence about professional
politicians--of which he is a *locus classicus*--and their willingness to
make people hurt, even when the hurt may be salutary over the long term,
doesn't make me sanguine.  We shall see. . .

Bob C.
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:24:24 CST
From:         Irvin Peckham <peckham@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Multimedia and hypermedia
              10, 92 4:44 pm

>
> >This is not a futuristic fantasy.  This is now.  The nature of rhetoric and
> >composition has already changed.  We are going to need to deal with
> >audiovisual argumentation, multimedia expression, hypertext, and electronic
> >communication and we will have to teach students the languages of images,
> >video, sound, and text as they interact in new and surprising ways.  What a
> >world!
> >Peg Syverson, msyverso@ucsd.edu
Peg:
You can imagine how this discussion hits me with my no TV in the house
rules.  I am overturning myself, cautiously.
Irv

--
Irvin Peckham
Internet: peckham@unomaha.edu
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 07:52:07 CST
From:         ellis <nse2@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Non-traditional students

Don't forget that this technology we are enjoying is also a viable way
to contact our students, to bring them in, to personalize ...

I've found in the couple of years I've used email with students that
SEVERAL have "confessed" they felt free to WRITE me things they'd
be embarrassed to bring up  face to face.

Email seems to EASE that contact stress a bit and is certainly making
my students feel I'm more accessible.  And they learn by experience that
I respond to all messages they post to me.

Nancy E.
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:17:13 CST
From:         Irvin Peckham <peckham@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Hypertext in comp and lit

David:
Your message was sent.  I enjoyed the description of how you
intend to use storyspace: it gave me a better idea of what
hypertext is and how it can be used.  I will be anxious to
see how it works for you.  I would think out the necessity of
grading each of the students' projects.  Why not just give
a midterm and a final grade--both of them accompanied by
comments on their efforts and contribution to the course?
Seems to me that when grades get in the way of good instruction,
they should be rethought.  I have seen to many excellent
pedagogical strategies gone bad when when the instructor has
felt that he or she had to grade the product (your product,
in this case, is the web of contributions in the hypertext.)
--
Irvin Peckham
Internet: peckham@unomaha.edu
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 11:46:20 -0500
From:         R_CONNORS@UNHH.UNH.EDU
Subject:      RE: Al Gore

I'm comfy as long as things stay heuristic and don't get too AlGoreithmic.

Bob C.
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:19:00 PST
From:         Lisa Gerrard <IDR2LXG@UCLAMVS.BITNET>
Subject:      cccc94

Last I heard, CCCC 94 was scheduled for Memphis.

Lisa Gerrard
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:48:00 CDT
From:         Fred Kemp <YKFOK@TTACS.BITNET>
Subject:      MBU temp shutdown

Megafriends, profound apologies but I'm having a very difficult
time with some error messages bouncing out of A&M and Houston in
a way that no one, either here or at those two listervs, can
explain.  One suggestion was to lock MBU for a few hours to see
if that breaks the loop, so I'm going to do that.  MBU will be
shut down tonight from 6 to 9:30 central standard time.  Sorry.
things will come back up at 9:30 this evening.  Fred
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 10:18:57 -0500
From:         Nick.Carbone@WRITING.UMASS.EDU
Subject:      Reply to Hypertext in comp and lit

David H.
    I'm glad you laid out your lesson strategy on hypertext.  I don't teach
with a hypertext program, our lab doesn't have one, but I wondered how it
could be best done.  I know students I see come in wedded to the notion
of good writing is clear and concise and to the point, so there inclination
in this academic setting is to write short linear pieces that don't risk
much.  Hypertext it seems can liberate them from that or I'd imagine scare
the heck out of them.  My brief encounters with reading Hypertext fiction and
poetry were disorienting for me; I'd imagine students might feel the same way. I
guess they might feel even more disoriented since they are less sure of themselv
es, generally, in traditional text than I, or maybe because they have less
relative experience in traditional text--in close and critical reading that
comes with moving towards a Ph.D., they might more easily than I adapt to
hypertext--much like kids who can take to skiing better than an adult for
the first time.
     But still, Britton's notion of templates in _Language and Learning_
comes to mind, the idea that you move more easily into new things if they
aren't too new.  If they aren't so new that they're more alienating than
familiar.
     For those who've taught in hypertext, how is the shift for students?
What do they say about it say in remarks to you or journals or class eval-
ations?
    I remember when I first taught in this lab, I felt excited and uneasy,
not sure of the system, just learning microsoft word and dos (having come
from Macland).  After time I became extremely comfortable, and while learn-
ing found that students were my biggest aid--they figured out a lot of things
for me.  Is it like that when going into hypertext instruction?

nick.carbone@writing.umass.edu
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:44:58 EST
From:         "(Gary Beason)" <bubba@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Multimedia and hypermedia
              92 4:44 pm

> that goes on in everyday life. Yet, academe seems to value the word

> his meaning). I think we need to examine carefully what roles and values we
> (as teachers of composition) are willing to accord the tactile, the iconic,
> the aural in the complex process of explaning something or arguing
> something or constructing any other kind of discourse.
>
>
>
> Nancy Kaplan


One reason to value the word is so that we can supposedly be
"logical."  I know among my tech writing students that they consider
visuals, for example, to manipulate facts whereas the text presents the
facts.  They recognize some of the visual 'fallacies' in tables,
charts, etc., and they suspect the medium itself, I think.

But the students pick up on the associative nature of a great deal of
persuasion--having visuals in a report means that the writer comes
across more informed.  The students, however, question the legitimacy
of such tactics: these students want to believe that decisions should
be made based on the data presented.  (But I question whether or not
this is self-delusion in part.)

I wonder to what extent multimedia will challenge even more openly
deductive or inductive reasoning.  This is a generation that has grown
up getting information and codes through television.  The associative
persuasion of television could emulated in multimedia documents.


-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
|
|   Gary Beason
|   Purdue University
|   bubba@mace.cc.purdue.edu
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:39:00 CST
From:         GOS@UHDBIT.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Reply to open admission concerns

David writes about his school's (ASU) requirements for admission.  As one
working at a truly open admission university (English optional) :-)  I can
only say, I envy you!
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 08:03:21 -0600
From:         RONRON@USU.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Books on Teaching Writing

Hi Rose.  Re your call for books on Tech writing et al.  At Utah State
we don't use an actual text.  Instead we base our courses around a
style guide designed fortechnical/professional people who write. In other
words, it isn't a college text. The book is the _Shipley Associates Style
Guide_, from Shipley Associates, P.O. Box 460, Bountiful, UT, 84010.
I'm not being a Utah booster when I recommend this guide.  It is one of the
standards of the industry, is available in electronic version, and serves
very well to anchor our programs.  I find that the less I use textbooks,.
the better the classes get, particularly at the graduate levels. Ron Shook
From: WWN@CORNELLC.BITNET (Fred McFarland)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: Non-traditional students
Date: 11 Nov 92 04:13:43 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Thank you Ann Green.
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:54:03 EST
Comments:     Resent-From: Stuart <SSELBER@MTUS5.cts.mtu.edu>
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              MBU-L%TTUVM1.bitnet@KSUVM.KSU.EDU
From:         Stuart <SSELBER@MTUS5.CTS.MTU.EDU>
Subject:      Tools vrs Environment

John Slatin writes:
What I was going to say, however, was that in order for hypertext to have the
kind of impact we've been suggesting in recent postings-- integrative,
multi-disciplinary, environmental-- there needs to be a "material substrate":
i.e., a physical environment of ubiquitous, networked computers.  That network
in turn gives rise to an "information environment" in which hypertext on a
large scale makes enormous good sense.

In addition to the "material substrate" John requires, we should add attitudes
that value the kinds of interactions hypertext potentially fosters. These
attitudes may not always exist in corporate environments, or in academic ones
for that matter.

Stuart Selber
Michigan Tech
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 14:49:59 CST
From:         "(McDonald James C)" <jcm5337@USL.EDU>
Subject: Re: stretch and jumbo comp classes

Patty, it's been ten years since I taught in the program, but Northern Illinois
University has had a one-year freshman composition course for special admissions
students instead of a basic writing course.  I don't know what the program is
like now, but when I was there, class sizes were smaller than regular
 composition
sections (18 instead 25), and students went to the writing center once or
twice a week at assigned times and were assigned a tutor for the semester.  Each
tutor worked with three students an hour.
  The first semester students received no grades on their writing but worked on
drafts and revisions of 4-6 assignments during the course of the semester.
They could receive an F for poor attendance or for not producing enough writing;
otherwise they received an I.  Most had a different instructor in the spring,
which was taught much like a regular composition course.  Students usually
handed in a couple of the papers they had worked on in the fall for a grade
at that time.
  The program worked pretty well.  The year before the program was restructured,
only 20% of these students passed the course.  The second year of the program,
only 20% of these students failed the course.
   Jim McDonald
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Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:50:09 CST
From:         Bob Whipple <whippl@PARROT.CREIGHTON.EDU>
Subject: Re: WC/Computer Labs

Dave, have your colleague write me (rhetoric@creighton.edu) or mMike
Sundermeier at Creighton.  We'd be happy to share our experiences
of building a lab last year.

bob whipple
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:18:00 EST
From:         00djfitzstep@BSUVAX1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Reply to Re: Lurkers or Wallflowers?

why can't we just be what we are?
must we have labels?
i'd prefer not
to be pigeon-holed
thankyouverymuch
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 10:30:01 CST
From:         "(Puckett Catherine E)" <cep6494@USL.EDU>
Subject:      query

I am doing research on men writing about nature compared to women writing about
nature.  I would appreciate any suggested readings.
  Catherine Puckett cep6494@usl.edu
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:10:04 -0700
From:         Doyle Burke <BURKE@MC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Notes on lurking from behind the wallflowers

Wayne,

I'm curious about the text editor you use.  Are you using a VAX computer?  IBM?

I did not post this message on MBU.  If you type "reply" and press enter, you
can answer this message directly.

Cheers!

Doyle Burke
Mesa Community College (AZ)
Burke@MC
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 08:33:30 MST
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject: Re: stretch and jumbo comp classes

From: David E. Schwalm
Interesting economic problem, Nancy. If we admit underprepared students and
then don't provide the courses or other support they need in order to succeed,
it is unlikely that they will persist beyond a semester or a year. But during
that year or semester, these students are taking courses (from a bean
counter's perspective--"using university resources") to no avail. We invest
our work in students who are doomed to failure. Now that's waste big time.
Isn't it betterto put resources into some appropriate support structures in an
effort to ensure that students succeed in their other college work, stay in
college, get degrees, and go on to find a place in a world that requires
higher education? Do we want to invest in success or in failure?

-- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
___Arizona State University West
___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 10:36:45 EST
From:         rselfe@MTU.EDU
Subject:      EUITNEWS Vol. 1, No. 24

Does anyone know any of these folks?

>From: Steve Gilbert <EUITEDIT%BITNIC.bitnet@KSUVM.KSU.EDU>
>Subject:      EUITNEWS Vol. 1, No. 24
>To: Multiple recipients of list EUITINQS <@mtus5.cts.mtu.edu:EUITINQS@BITNIC>
>
>EDUCOM's Educational Uses of Information Technology (EUIT) Program
>EUITNEWS          Volume 1, No. 24       November 4, 1992
>
>Here's some election results that didn't make the network news!
>Three new members join the EUIT Steering Committee as a result of
>an election held among EUIT participants and subsequent appointment
>by the EDUCOM Board.  The winners are:
>
>Frank Connolly, The American University
>William Graves, University of North Carolina
>Carrie Regenstein, Cornell University
>
>These individuals will serve a three year term, joining the six
>continuing members:
>
>Diane Balestri, Princeton University
>Jacqueline Brown, Princeton University
>Stephen Ehrmann, The Annenberg/CPB Project
>Vijay Kumar, Mount Holyoke College
>Sally Webster, SUNY/CESF (Syracuse)
>Daryl Weiner, Apple Computer, Inc.
>
>Jacqueline Brown, who served as co-chair last year, will chair the
>committee this year.  Carrie Regenstein will serve as co-chair.  Our
>heartfelt thanks go to Kamala Anandam, George Bateman, and Peggy
>Seiden, whose terms expired with this election, for their dedicated
>service to EUIT as members of the Steering Committee.
>
>New EDUCOM Board members were also elected at EDUCOM'92.  New
>trustees are James Johnson of Emory University and Geraldine
>MacDonald of SUNY-Binghamton.  Robert Lutz, of Drake University,
>and Charles Warlick, of the University of Texas, were elected to second
>terms.  Board officers for 1992-93 are:
>
>Chair:  Charles Warlick        Vice Chair:  James Johnson
>Secretary:  David Bishop       Treasurer:  Glenn Ricart
>

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dickie Selfe              rselfe@mtu.edu
Humanities Dept.          906-487-3225
Michigan Technological U.
Houghton, MI   49931
From: USERTFSH@UMICHUM.BITNET (Ann Green)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Non-traditional students
Date: 11 Nov 92 03:54:22 GMT
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Non-traditional students often (not always) fall into the category of at-
risk students, those likely to fail without intervention.  Irv, I take issue
with you:  Yes, we DO have to be nursemaid (isn't that word in itself
telling, a woman's job is menial work).  We are not only teaching at-risk
students whatever discipline we may profess and introducing them to the
world of academic discourse, but we are also teaching them by example,
by speech, how to be students.  We who have breezed through academia, some-
how assimilating the ins and outs of studenthood and continued on in the
profession are the success stories perhaps.  We must be very careful, I
think, not to become the gatekeepers who determine who is and who is not
appropriate for admission to the academy.  I believe our job is to create
other success stories, even among those who do not care because they don't
know how to or how to express it or how to even imagine it in this environ-'ment
a few teaching years believing I should treat my students as my professors
had, by and large, treated me at the university, not much extending them-
selves.  Then I decided that was hogwash and I began calling people who
didn't come to class, meeting with people to help them establish individ-
ual ways to study, matched working mothers with others to share survival
strategies, hauling people into my office to see why their assignments
aren't coming in.  It's pretty amazing to hear what they say:  you're the
first teacher who ever cared enough to call me, for example.  Professing
is always more than simply transmitting subject matter (perhaps that is
the least of it, in fact).  The thread of elitism that has shown up here
recently has me angered and ultimately dismayed.  Ann Green/Jackson
Community College
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 11:58:21 -0600
From:         NKAPLAN@UTDALLAS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Multimedia and hypermedia

>Gary Beeson's students are surely right to be skeptical of the claims made
>implicitly by many visual "supplements" to reports, etc.; but they should be
>no less skeptical of the claims made by the words on the page.

>John Slatin
>UT Austin


John--You took the words (he, he) right out of my fingertips.  The "facts,
ma'am, nothing but the facts"--well, it seems just a trifle naive, don't
you think?  But as for students defending the word against the encroachment
of the flesh(ly)--mine do it all the time.  Not because the pictures claim
to represent the world as it really and truly is but because they tug at
the heart and too directly remind us that we are not, au fond, such
rational critters after all.  Words are more successful at masking their
rhetoric.  If students put the numbers in and not the graphs, they think
they have a neutral representation of the world, as it really and truly is,
as if words and numbers were natural phenomena, not human constructs too.


Nancy Kaplan
University of Texas at Dallas
Box 830688
Richardson, TX  75083-0688

(214) 690-2071
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