HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:08:29 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <BzC7on.8to@rice.edu> cathyf@is.rice.edu (Catherine Anne Foulston) writes:
>In article <Bz8w04.5M5@news.udel.edu> jcarroll@bach.udel.edu (Royal J Carroll) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec12.012308.19404@athena.cs.uga.edu> wells@athena.cs.uga.edu (Scott Wells) writes:
>
>>>6'3", dark short hair, brown eyes, bisexual, and horny as ....
>
>>>And is everyone so tall around here ?
>
>>Well...I'm 6'2", dark short hair, brown eyes, bisexual, and getting hornier...
>
>Well, I'm 5'4", or 163 cm if you like those better, have hazel eyes
>(how boring -- those cheesy romance novel heroines never have hazel
>or brown eyes, always blue, green, grey, or violet, but who wants to
>be like them anyway :-), and am having a Bad Hair Day.
>
Who needs bear codes anyway?
I am about 5'10", have greenish eyes, and have been told that I look
like James Spader.  

Cathy, you're right who does want to be like them.  Except for the amount
of sex that they get.
And I *know* about bad hair days.

>	Cathy
>	almost short and proud of it, so there
>-- 
>Cathy Foulston + Rice University + Network & Systems Support + cathyf@rice.edu

jim
-- 
Jim Dilmore - seamus@brahms.udel.edu    or    dilmore@che.udel.edu 
               SILENCE = DEATH      Safe sex doesn't mean no sex.          
Give me life, Give me pain,         It just means use your imagination. 
Give me myself again.  Tori Amos.            Billy Bragg
From: s882916@otto (Vikki POLLARD)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Oooh, am I miffed!
Date: 16 Dec 92 07:04:43 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: otto.bf.rmit.oz.au

rowe@engin.umich.edu (Steven Rowe) writes:

>Growf!  I just got back home from a night out at a local disco (it's
>gay night 2-nite).  I almost had a wonderful time, but...

>I just posted recently about the cute little pin (button) I bought.
>Pretty inocuous, 1.5 cm diameter, interlocking mars/venus signs.
>So, I'm walking along, I pass a group of folks, and pull up a stool.
>Then I hear them saying stuff like "Did you see that pin?  Imagine
>walking around saying 'I'm bisexual.'  Yuck!  What audacity!"
>So I look over, and yes, they were talking about ME.  I smiled
>demurel, got up, and found a much more bi-friendly environment...
>Here.  Hug me?


I admire your self restraint Steven. I'm afraid I would have yelled and sreamed at them, or at the very least had an argument with them about discrimination. But then again Discos aren't exactly the place for intelligent conversations. ./
>-- 
Vikki 
      
0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
still with no .sig. How does "the feminist, married, seperatist sound????

>Steve Rowe: B0 f- w- c g+ k+ s- e+ r-
>I drank too much beer, then tried to sober up by drinking
>too much coffee.  The result was that I was still making
>irrational decisions, but I was making them *FAST*!  -me
From: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Roy's "consenting" slave
Date: 15 Dec 1992 17:05:07 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center and Reptile Farm
NNTP-Posting-Host: grissom.larc.nasa.gov

In article <1gkdrtINN90c@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>In article <s882916.724315458@otto> s882916@otto (Vikki POLLARD) writes:
>->
>->You men just don't get it huh?
>
>Just because Kerry's penis is bigger than mine (does everyone who wants it
>already have the Good Vibrations phone number? Good :) ) doesn't mean that
>she's a man.  And she doesn't seem to get it.

Well, Vikki just said that men didn't get it, she didn't rule out the
possibility that women couldn't also not get it.  But then, I don't
get it either (and I have great respect for any woman whose penis is
bigger than mine).
--scott
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: dbshapco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Brad Shapcott)
Subject: Re: Roy's "consenting" slave
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:52:54 GMT


Ciaran writes:
>Brad writes:
>>[...] The power of the master over the slave is mostly illusion, as
>>the master has no more power than the slave will permit. If the master
>>violates the implicit (or better yet, explicit) contract between the
>>participants, they begin to exploit.
>>
>>Most clearly of all is the situation of rape, in which the sexual and social
>>contract is clearly violated,
>             ^^^^^^^
>Not always. I know a woman who feels that she was raped by a man she
>knew. Some time afterwards (I don't know was it days, months or years
>later) she confronted him with it and he was honestly baffled: he
>thought that she had been consenting.

[!].  This seems more like a failure to reach or communicate a contract
governing the interaction.  Without details, its difficult to comment.

I really don't see how one could fail to communicate "I don't want sex with
you".  I tend to view this defence on the part of a rapist as bogus, since
not only should one back down when a response to a sexual overture is
negative, it would be wise to desist when the other person doesn't respond
positively.  If the other person isn't apparently enjoying the situation,
how does that translate into consent?  That doesn't mean one must yell
"Take me now or lose me forever, you big studmuffin!"  But isn't it some
*big clue* if the other person is apparently not participating (this
meaning, quite *definitely*, much more than autonomous sexual response)?

It would be a *very* odd situation in which I believed one participant
thought consent was present and the other did not.  Too often it is an
after the fact characterization propelled by regret, guilt, or justification
by one of the participants.

>In fact, this happened twice to her. "Brookside", a soap opera on
>English TV, dealt with this subject matter a while back. (I don't watch
>"Brookside" but I read about it in a newspaper.)
>
>I don't know how (a)typical these data points are.

I still do not see, except in the most drastic breakdown of communications,
how a contract isn't violated in a rape situation.  I can't see how a person
can have sex and not clue in to whether the other person wanted it or not.

>Ciaran.


Brad
From: STella@thelema.uucp (STella)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: "Kindly Do Not Tread in the Excrement"
Date: 18 Dec 92 11:42:35 GMT
Organization: Idiosyncratic Anarchic Order

In article <1grvgrINNt6e@agate.berkeley.edu> mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd) writes:
>alan@auntbea.austin.ibm.com (Alan R. Weiss) writes:  
>>mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd) writes:
>>>My agreement with Dworkin and MacKinnon is over pornography and law.
>>>The latter person has pretty powerful credentials for speaking on the
>>>latter topic (but given my constant irreverance I won't push that point
>>>at all).

Pretty powerful credentials?  For argument to authority to succeed,
the authority must be credible.  Ms. MacKinnon reports the presence of
blue whales in my bathtub.  Her reality-tunnel is sufficiently
far-removed from my own as to seem completely nonsensical.

It may validly reflect her experience (I'm awfully glad to be me), but
we seem mutually wrong-headed at any point.

>>Oh, fer crissake, Mike!  Andrea Dworkin is a complete and utter
>>idiot, who would take away your rights in a New York minute given
>>half the chance.  Besides, HER pornography (read her books!)
>>is filled with aggression, anger, and just plain violence.
>>She's just pissed that it doesn't sell as well as Bob Guccione's!
>>Have you ever *READ* her crap?  Unbelievable.

In general, I say "Right ON!"  But if Dwork were a complete and utter
idiot, rather than being keenly aware of the stupidity of the average
man, woman and congresscritter, I would be less concerned about her
pernicious influence.

But I agree that she's pretty hate-driven.

>Sheesh, Alan!  Call me a wimp, but can't we keep this a little more
>level-headed?  Given the hot-button fiesta we've had around here
>recently, I think a little less vitriol may be called for.

OK, dear...  "you wimp" (tm).  Better?  I argue that it's fairly
level-headed, upon coming home to find a pile of excrement on the
doormat, to say "Hey, some idiot shit on the rug."  Vitriol?  Not for
me -- I try not to hate people I'm fighting (makes me stupider), and I
consider countering dworkinista illogic too important to fuck up.

>a direct comparison, but some abuse occurs in the production of this
[porn] >stuff.

You can say that about a maternity ward too -- what's your point,
Mike?

>I think I'll leave it there.  No reason to light too many touch papers
>at once.

Well flick mah bic, boy!  It's all intertwingled.

STella@xanadu.com	1016 E. El Camino Real, #302, Sunnyvale, CA 94087
STella%thelema.uucp@dec.com	Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian!
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: nsn@ee.mu.OZ.AU (Nick Nicholas)
Subject: Re: Tori Amos!!
Organization: Electronic and Electrical Engineering - University of Melbourne 
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 05:24:54 GMT

as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (andrew david simchik) writes:
>eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (eleanor.j.evans) writes:
>>I just heard my first Tori Amos song!  (Happy Phantom.)  Neat!
>Ooooohhh, buy it!  You'll love it.  Terrific stuff.

Who then do we blame for this bout of soc.bi Toriism? Me, who have been
so vociferous on her? Dawn, who got me into her in the first place?
Yvette's girlfriend, via whom I first heard the line "So you can make
me cum, that doesn't make you Jesus!"?

Remember, that Tori mailing list address is 
rdt-request@gradient.cis.upenn.edu, archives of which are available at
ftp.uwp.edu.


*******************************************************************************
 A freshman once observed to me:         Nick Nicholas am I, of Melbourne, Oz.
 On the edge of the Rubicon,             nsn@munagin.ee.mu.oz.au (IRC: nicxjo)
 men don't go fishing.                   Account expires end of February 1993.
   - Alice Goodman, _Nixon In China_     Mail me! Mail me! Mail me! Or don't!!
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: iw@tosser.Rational.COM (The_Devine_Dolly)
Subject: Re: Vikki's Problems With Kerry&Me
Organization: Rational
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:07:32 GMT

rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:

> ... I don't call myself a feminist, but I _do_ believe in
>feminist principles ... And heck, I could out-manbash you any day of the
>week :).


Clue ... BIG CLUE ...  EVEN BIGGER CLUE .... Feminism is not a 
man-bashing movement.

Iseult.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: an2839@anon.penet.fi (Archer)
Subject: Re: anti-bi's
X-Anonymously-To: soc.bi
Organization: Anonymous contact service
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:16:29 GMT

mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd) writes:
> Human beings would probably be OK if they were never children

I disagree completely!  :)  Children (esp young ones) see the world
truer than many adults.

(unfortunately, I will probably have trouble keeping up with the
replies to this message for the next month)

-"Archer"
(hiding from the de-muffining brigade ;)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
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Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: yal@cltr.uq.oz.au (Yvette Lian)
Subject: Re: Attack of the Seperatists (was Re: Roy's "consenting" slave)
Organization: Centre for Language Teaching and Research, Uni of Queensland, AUSTRALIA.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 07:07:35 GMT

>rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
[some trash I won't bother repeating]

In article <iw.724435606@tosser> iw@tosser.Rational.COM (The_Devine_Dolly) writes:
[Some really good stuff too long to repeat, but mostly she was getting up
Roy for being a tad clueless]

*gets down on her knees and starts worshipping the ground in the immediate
vicinity of Iseult's feet*

Thankyou.  Thankyou.  Thankyou.

Thankyou, Iseult, for telling this guy how it is.

*sigh*

Now, we only need another 50million or so of you, and we'll be right.


--
Yvette Lian
yal@lingua.cltr.uq.oz.au 
FIDO: 3:640/352 
IRC nick: Maxine2
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Australians (was Re: accidently out)
From: woodhous@latcs2.lat.oz.au (Joe P Woodhouse)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 02:30:38 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

nsn@ee.mu.OZ.AU (Nick Nicholas) writes:
>idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>>nsn@ee.mu.OZ.AU (Nick Nicholas) writes:
>>>*Esspecially* as there's nothing happening to me to make anyone envious...
>>>(Giuseppino, on the other hand... *grin*).
>>Oh yes?  do tell...

   No secrets anywhere.... [sigh] 8-P


>Where to begin? The time at Melbourne Central Basement Handicapped Toilets?

   Nick, Nick, you neglect to mention that was actually *three* people
there, and that K., S. & I were busted by security!! (The looks on their
faces when *three* people sheepishly trudged out... priceless!).


>The time in Upper Middle Bumfuck Nowhere Frigging Paddock Computer Science
>Labs?

   *ahem*! LaTrobe is a *nice* Uni!

   ...and, you also neglect to mention that I was logged on and chatting
with someone at the time!!


>The time at the tramstop? (Oh, that wasn't him! Er... best shut up
>now, Nick :)

   Silly! The tram stop was K. & S., I told you that!

   ... the *bus* stop, however, is a different matter...


>... OR DEBATING ETHICS WITH HIM IN A SHOE-STORE?!?! :)

   Well, I'm sure the staff were amused by our vigorously arguing axiomatic
choices for morality the way we were, *and* you also neglect to mention
that it was not only in the shoe section of the bargain basement (another
basement, see? 8-P), but also all through Melbourne Central, *and* Hungry
Jacks (Burger King to the Pacifically-impaired 8-P), *and* through most
of the streets in between as well! So there! 8-P

Joe.

  / Joe Woodhouse        / I'm just a sweet bisexual...   / Hello, there.
 / Latrobe University   /    (think - Rocky Horror)      / Threesomes are fun.
/ Melbourne, Australia / Music. Magic. Mathematics. Me. / I like cats! (miaow!)
From: arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Angus H Rodgers)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: "Straight Suck"
Date: 20 Dec 92 21:16:51 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London

Damn. I'm sorry. I pressed 'f' instead of 'r' again. Sorry for the
waste of bandwidth (just compounded ...).
--
Gus Rodgers,  Dept. of Computer Science, |  [Profound thought for 1993]
Queen Mary & Westfield College, Mile End |     "Philishave is about
Road, London, England.   +44 71 975 5241 |      personal choice" 
E-mail (JANET):   arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk |             -- TV advert
From: as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (andrew david simchik)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Tori Amos!!
Date: 20 Dec 92 06:49:29 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <9235416.17888@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> nsn@ee.mu.OZ.AU (Nick Nicholas) writes:

>as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (andrew david simchik) writes:
>>eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (eleanor.j.evans) writes:
>>>I just heard my first Tori Amos song!  (Happy Phantom.)  Neat!
>>Ooooohhh, buy it!  You'll love it.  Terrific stuff.

>Who then do we blame for this bout of soc.bi Toriism? Me, who have been

Not bloody you, matey!  :)

I was listening to Tori *long* before I showed up on soc.bi.  (I was bi long
before I listened to Tori, but ne'er mind.)  In fact, you can normally find
me on rec.music.gaffa, where Tori's an oft-hot topic.

For the record, a bi friend of mine back home got me into her, so there!

Drewcifer
-- 
***************************************************************************
** Andrew David Simchik, registered Scorpio ************* SCHNOPIA! *******
***************************************************************************
as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: A question about Stephen M. Conley
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 11:22:23 GMT

In article <BzC78D.8qx@rice.edu> cathyf@is.rice.edu (Catherine Anne Foulston) writes:
>In article <Bz1wG5.6FL@cck.coventry.ac.uk> idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>>Sorry, I *still* don't believe in the existence of political parties
>>with any principles other than "We want to be in power".  Alice
>>Cooper was right.
>
>Some Libertarians, if not the party itself, are not after power.
>As possible evidence, I offer the fact that Libertarians have run for
>office on the platform that if elected to the office, they would then
>phase out or abolish that office, leaving themselves officeless.

Vox et praeterea nihil, Cathy; I'd believe it when I saw it.  At the
moment I'd trust a politician to abolish his or her office as much
as I'd trust a rapist to abolish his dick.

				Kay,
		foul bastard cynical misanthrope
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: jcf@world.std.com (Joseph C Fineman)
Subject: Re: Another one with a problem...
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:12:21 GMT

I have not only hugged, but slept with, some straight men & gay women,
and not molested them.  If people don't understand that that's
possible, to hell with them.

And to hell with people who demand that you call yourself this or
that.  "Identity" (in the psychological sense) is an idiot
pseudoconcept, useful mainly for bullying.  IMHO, Erik Erikson has a
lot to answer for.


-- 
        Joe Fineman             jcf@world.std.com
        239 Clinton Road        (617) 731-9190
        Brookline, MA 02146
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: jcarroll@bach.udel.edu (Royal J Carroll)
Subject: Re: Coming Out: The Report (and hugs)
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 10:56:44 GMT

In article <1g6a6bINNnpm@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>Came out to my mother yesterday.  

Congratualations.

>She took it entirely better than I expected her to ... I mean, she said "if
>it was up to me, you'd be straight," but it was obvious that it was sort of
>a nonemotional statement, if that makes any sense.  Something along the
>lines of "Sure, I'd like you to be straight, but you're not ... not a big
>thing."
>
>I think what sort of took her off-guard was that I agreed with her on almost
>everything she was saying ... 
>"Well, you're bi at least partially because it's easier for you to deal with
> men"
>"Umm, yes, sure."
>...
>"You may be going through a phase."
>"Yup. I could turn gay or straight tomorrow, or next year.  Unlikely, but
> possible."
>... 
>
>And so on ...
>
>God, even her stereotypes were positive :) ... I'd rather she thought queer
>people were generally more sensitive (which she does), than she thought
>queers were sex-crazed pedophiles :).
>
>You know, when your own mother says "I think everyone's born bisexual," you
>know this coming out thing is taking an unexpected twist.
>

Much better than being asked out of the blue (in an accusatory, hostile) tone,
"You're not gay, are you?"  Or being told, "I was worried for a while that
you might be gay.  I don't know what I'd do if you were." in response to
dying your naturally dark brown hair medium-dark copper for Halloween.

>I was afraid of talking with her for about three months ... communications
>had suffered because of this.
>
>It's nice to have my mom back. 

I'm happy for you.

>
>Hugs to everyone who want them! 

Much appreciated!  *HUGS* back.

>(And especially to Jen, if she will accept them)
>
>-roy.  Out.  
>-- 
>Roy S. Rapoport          rsr@soda.berkeley.edu             rsr@ocf.berkeley.edu
>
>DISCLAIMER:  "I meant every word of it, but I doubt anyone else did."

-James, who is amazed at how conservative his Mom is becoming.

-- 
You touch my eyes and hypnotize and slip inside my heart      | jcarroll@
I wait for this forever but we always fall apart	      | brahms.udel.edu
You want to hold me closer, and secretly entice		      -----------------
You take the size of shawdowed men, and punish me with kisses every night
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: h431@quads.uchicago.edu (heather e blair)
Subject: Re: Attack of the Separatists
Reply-To: h431@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 02:29:49 GMT

In article <MUFFY.92Dec15155723@remarque.berkeley.edu> muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:

>Nah.  I pretty much agree with Iseult - I wouldn't call that a
>separatist, either.  From what I've seen/heard of separatists, they
>would *not* "work side-by-side with men."  That's the whole point, to
>form a society *without* interaction with men.
>
I think it's Marilyn Frye "Politics of Reality" who describes a 
continuum of separatism, from the kind of withdrawal from a husband
Roy described, on to separatist communities.  

>Muffy



-- 

- Heather Blair       h431@midway.uchicago.edu
From: sara@festival.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Tori Amos!!
Date: 17 Dec 92 22:48:46 GMT

eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (eleanor.j.evans) writes:

>I just heard my first Tori Amos song!  (Happy Phantom.)  Neat!
>The funny thing is, just after everyone started talking about
>her here (last month), I went into a record store (Christmas

Scuse me, Piglet, but we talked about her here a long time before that -
ah now, methinks it was before you started posting here.  My apologies. 
I posted a review here after having seen her play for the second time. 
If she ever gigs near you, go, because her recorded work doesn't do
justice to her live performance, largely due to the bad production and
the extraneous baggage (like synthi-strings).  They messed up the
dynamics and IMNSHO she's better with just her and the piano anyway.

>shopping, or I'd never even have gone in), and saw a Tori Amos
>poster plastered all over the back wall...  Now I'll just have
>to rush out and buy something....

A poster!  Wonderful!  I wonder if we can get it over here?  Anyway she
has an album out called Little Earthquakes, that gives you most of her
stuff.  Apart from the peculiar Y Kant Tori Read album that I believe
she tries to dissociate herself from nowadays, right enough I think it's
not really her somehow.  Anyway.

Bi content?  Er... yes, I guess this bi's fairly content.

Sara
From: mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
Date: 19 Dec 1992 10:19:48 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: tsunami.berkeley.edu

rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd) writes:
>> It's amazing how good sex can tend to take over your life,
>
>May I quote you out of context on this? "It's amazing how good sex can tend
>to take over your life."  Good ammo for blackmail ... 

Blackmail?  Hell!  Buy me the pin!

>(Well, I've got to get
>Mike to submit to a backrub _somehow_).

Honey, you really think it's that hard? (to coin a phrase)  No plausible
offers refused as far as this back goes.  I've also been called on to
justify my sig on a number of occasions, and have done so gladly.  It's
so nice to enjoy backrubbing for its own sake so much that the
transaction is not a two-way thing.  Anyone wanna give me one?  Fine.
But trade doesn't come into it.  ('Course, a good backrub can often be a
basis for non-verbal negotiation of other games, which may be more or
less directly mutual, depending in part on the genders.)

hugs from afar
Mike
-- 
Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- g+ k+ s m- e? |    "Bloody nose and burning eyes
      Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and      |  Raised in laughter to the skies"
          backrubber of devotion          |                 - Bruce Cockburn
               --The end of confusion is the beginning of death--