HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rm3@ornl.gov (MCBROOM R C)
Subject: Re: A happy user!  One more I've seen the light story!
Organization: Oak Ridge National Laboratory
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:22:34 GMT

In article <1371@swuts.sbc.com> rambo!es9100@texbell.sbc.com (Eric Smith 5-0990) writes:
>In article <BqpMz9.J80@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tamu@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Todd Henderson) writes:
>>Well as the post says, I am now a happy user.  I bought OS/2 when I only
>>had 4 meg of memory, needless to say it was lacking, which I expected.
>>
>>I then upgraded to 8 meg and HPFS.  Things are great.  To put things in
>>prespective:
>>
>>Memory      File System         Time to load AMI PRO 2.0/for windows
>>
>>4 meg           FAT                  > 4 minutes
>>8 meg           FAT                    1 minute  6 seconds
>>8 meg           HPFS                            20 seconds
>
>	And it would be even faster if you already have Win-OS2 already loaded.
>
>You can do that by simply putting a shadow of any Windows program (the
>clock is a good one since its small) in the startup folder.  This will
>force Win-OS2 to load at boot, taking more time, but saving you time each
>time you start of a Windows program..

I keep seeing people say this but it is completely foreign to my
experience.  Every session of winos2 I start is independent of any other.
The only way to run more than one windows program is with progman or
winfile.  Does this only work for a seamless windowed winos2?


Robert McBroom internet: rm3@ornl.gov
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: rcook@bashful.helios.nd.edu (robert cook)
Subject: Re: Media coverage (Electronic Engineer Times)
Reply-To: Cook.14@nd.edu (R. Kelley Cook)
Organization: Univ. of Notre Dame
Distribution: comp
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 00:30:48 GMT

In article <PSHUANG.92Jul20144125@beeblebrox.mit.edu>, pshuang@athena.mit.edu (Ping-Shun Huang) writes:
|> 
|>  |                 WINDOWS NT COVERS ALL THE BASES
|>  |                 -------------------------------
|>  |         Primary features supported by different operating systems
|>  | 
|>  |                         Windows 3.1     OS/2 2.0        Windows NT
|>  |                         ===========     ========        ==========
|>  | Demand paging                                               X
|>  | Fully 32-bit internally                                     X
|>  | 32-bit I/O drivers          X                               X
|>  | Continue on fault           X                               X
|>  | Separate address space                      X               X
|>  |     for apps.
|>  | Fully pre-emptive                           X               X
|>  |     multitasking
|>  | Symmetric multiprocessing                                   X
|>  |     support
|>  | C-2 level security                                          X
|>  | Available on non-X86                                        X
|>  | Extensible (POSIX...)                                       X
|>  | High-performance                                            X
|>  |     client and server
|>  | 
|> 

This chart is a direct lift off of Microsoft's slide presentation
on why Win 3.1 is better than OS/2 2.0.  And it's in what should
be an objective article.  Jeez.

-- 
Robert Kelley Cook     << Cook.14@nd.edu >>
Univ. of Notre Dame     The future for Intel computers arrived March 31!
Physics Dept.            Long Live the new OS/2!  Time to close the Windows!
From: sjb5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (STACY JOHN BEHRENS)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Media coverage (Electronic Engineer Times) Portability?
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:55:24 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <711756169.3791@minster.york.ac.uk>, martin@minster.york.ac.uk writes

> Or will IBM and Apple be the only people making these
>machines? Neither company are well known for producing low cost machines.

Just a point, MIPS and DEC aren't exactly known for low prices either.  IBM
and Apple just catch a lot more flak for it.

>
>The *big* advantage of going with Microsoft - and God knows there
>are reasons *not* to want to go with Microsoft - is that Microsoft do not
>make processors or machines, and hence do not have a reason to lock users
>into any particular (hardware) architecture. Just look what happened to Unix
>once AT&T started trying to sell computers!

True, but they do want to lock you into a particular *software* architecture.
After all, the company's goal is to control the software market, and I have
yet to see a computer that was of any use without software.  I have to agree,
that I too would like to see IBM stop trying to push PS/2s (or whatever other
platform) with their OS's.  On the other hand, there aren't a whole lot of
third party manufacturers of Alpha or MIPS machines either.  (Although I expect
that there will be an increasing number of them soon)  That doesn't leave you
with tons of flexibility that way either.> While MicroSoft's methods are
different, their goals are somewhat similair, and they would certaintly love
to control the market.

>Martin

                                            Stacy John Behrens
                                            *===)-------------
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: tpurves@sygnus.uucp (Tim Purves)
Subject: Re: Dvorak next to quit?
Organization: None
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 16:37:10 GMT

In article <6wgFoB4w164w@dvss.UUCP> dvss!jtroy@udel.edu (Jay Troy) writes:
>
>
>
>Anyone see the Dvorak column in the August '92 PC Mag?  Something must be
>seriously wrong!!!  He raves about OS/2 2.0.  I just don't get it anymore.
>

Sorta makes Zacherman look like a lier, no?

Twho theories:

1) This weeks PCMAG is very pro OS/2. ZD did this to make Zacherman look the
fool. And to prove that he was not censored.

2) Zacherman, was just doing a publicity stunt.


Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara)
Subject: Re: Is NTFS really a new file system?
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:37:40 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Jul30.095426.16451@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE> rommel@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Kai-Uwe Rommel) writes:
>In article <1992Jul29.000042.8518@microsoft.com> philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara) writes:
>>
>>      Using it for over four months with no problems?
>>
>>      Sorry, someone had to say it... :-)
>>
>
>If you want to know it, I run HPFS without any problems since OS/2 1.2
>became available. 
>
>BTW, I have not seen any CONSTRUCTIVE posting from you (and some other
>MS employees) in this group for a long time. All you ever seem capable
>of is trying to make competitors products look bad by spreading FUD. I
>wonder when other readers start to recognize this as a commercial
>mis-use of USENET. When I see IBM employees posting in the comp.os.os2
>groups, they much more often try to be helpful ...
>
>No wonder that we don't see any significant contributions of MS
>employees in other groups than .advocacy ...
>

     Ahem.   Didn't someone start a thread somewhere about how
humorless Microsoft employees are?

     Maybe this group just needs smiley education.  For everyone's
edification:  This thing :-) is called a smiley.  When you see one
it usually means that one or more of the preceding statements was
meant as a _joke_.

     Sheesh...

					-Phil


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Lafornara         				1 Microsoft Way         
philipla@microsoft.com				Redmond, WA 98052-6399 
Note:  Microsoft doesn't even _know_ that these are my opinions. So there.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: bill@snoopy (Bill Poitras)
Subject: Re: PC Week dumps on NT
Reply-To: bill@msi.com
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 01:29:31 GMT

pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu (Pierre VonKaenel) writes:
: Someone recently posted a description of the latest PC Week's article
: on NT and how it won't run all DOS and Windows programs.  As I read
: through the magazine, I was amazed to find article after article
: dumping on NT or raising doubts about its capabilities in the initial
: release.
: Talk about an about face! 

Here is my HO:  Its because they've seen it!!!!!  For a long time people
have either seen NT at trade shows with a very tight and controlled demo,
or just heard about its specs.  Hell NT sounds great on paper.  Now that
you can run out and buy a CD for $69 and get all of NT (in its current
form) plus development tools, I'm sure that you will see a lot of "it
doesn't do this" or "it doesn't do that, but OS/2 does".  Although NT
will be a very good product, I don't think it will live up to the current
image.  

--
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Bill Poitras    | Molecular Simulations Inc.    | Tel (408)522-9229       |
| (bill)          | Sunnyvale, CA USA             |                         | 
|                 | FAX (408)732-0831             | bill@msi.com            |
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: A happy user!  One more I've seen the light story!
Date: 21 Jul 92 22:05:50 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Jul21.152234.6401@ornl.gov> rm3@ornl.gov (MCBROOM R C) writes:
>
>I keep seeing people say this but it is completely foreign to my
>experience.  Every session of winos2 I start is independent of any other.
>The only way to run more than one windows program is with progman or
>winfile.  Does this only work for a seamless windowed winos2?

Seamless WIN-OS2 apps all share a common session.  This session is
started with the first Windos app is started seamlessly, and is closed
when the last app in the session terminates.  There is a check box in
the application's settings to force it to load into a different
session if it can not run with other Windows apps.

Full-screen WIN-OS2 apps will all run in separate sessions if they are
started from the WPS desktop.  If you want to run multiple Windows
apps in the same full-screen session, you must start them from the
WIN-OS2 session using Program Manager, File Manager (not included -
import this from a Windows 3.0 installation), or other application
which can launch programs.

The advantages to running apps in separate sessions is that each one
is preemptively multitasked from the others.  Windows apps are
cooperatively multitasked within a WIN-OS2 session, but the sessions
are preemptively multitasked with respect to each other and to other
applications.  There is additional levels of memory protection between
sessions if you have a poorly-behaved application.

The advantages to running apps in one session is memory.  You don't
need a separate copy of WIN-OS2 running for each application, eating
up memory and swap space.  You also don't need the public clipboard if
the cutting program and the pasting program are both running in the
same session.  Same for DDE.


-- 
   |)  David Charlap           "I don't even represent myself
  /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu   sometimes so NJIT is right out!.
 ((|,)
  ~|~  Hi! I am a .signature virus, copy me into your .signature file.
Xref: sparky comp.os.os2.advocacy:3083 comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy:1484 comp.sys.acorn:7986
From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.acorn,comp.sys.mac.mis
Subject: Re: New MultiTOS PC (Atari Falcon)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 13:50:46 BST
Distribution: world
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

Gavin.Flower@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Gavin Flower) writes:
> In article <HVy2NB7w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes:
> >Gavin.Flower@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Gavin Flower) writes:
> >> Not until it can run Risc-OS 3.1 !!!
> >
> >*Snigger*
> >
> >RiscOS?  Yeah, I just LOVE seven letter filenames.  !And !All !Those !Stupid
> >!Exclamation !Marks !All !Over !The !Screen.
> 
> Even Risc-OS 2 supports more than 7 letter filenames!  You're not
> thinking of DFS, by any chance.

Yeah, sorry.  It's actually a whopping >ten< letters, isn't it?  Oh, the
luxury.

>                                 Besides which, that is filing system
> specific, and Risc-OS can support various filing systems.

Yeah, but if I install a filing system with (say) 32-character filenames,
would all my software still work?

>                                                         Risc-OS 3.1
> even allows easy access to MS-DOS and Atari format disks, I can put
> one in and display its directory in a window along side one from an
> ADFS "E" format disc - without loading special software.

If I wanted to do that on the Mac I could, but by and large I find the free
Apple File Exchange program good enough.

> I could ask why Atari are releasing yet another "Tape Operating System",
> but the historical significance would be lot on most people now
> reading the net.  Anyway, I assume that the "T" stands for something else.

Naah, "something else" starts with an S. :-)

> Does it fully support a 3 button mouse as standard?  

Believe it or not, some of us don't want a 3 button mouse.  Especially not
without standardization over which button does what.  My Mac's trackball has
one button, and that does me well enough.

> Are menus context sensitive?  

I hope not.  Context sensitive menus are bloody confusing.  (Go to
comp.human-factors if you want to discuss it.)

> Do menus stay on screen when you take your finger of the mouse?  

Better than that, I can tear off menus and use them as tool palettes. 
(I've heard rumours System 7.1 will do that for all menus...)

> I suggest you develope a better understanding of Risc-OS before you
> make critical comments on it.  I know very little about MultiTOS, so
> I'm not about to attack it, it may have some very good features.

I suggest that you get clued in to the fact that I'm a Mac owner.  I ditched
my Atari after five years because I realized Atari was incapable of producing
a good, modern OS.  So that's one thing we can agree on :-)


mathew
-- 
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Sigue Sputnik TELEX Dead Kennedys Steve Fisk Startled Insects Peter Gabriel Art
of Noise LARD Cabaret Voltaire DEVO Durutti Column Ministry Holger Hiller Yello
Fortran 5 Wir Andrew Poppy Nine Inch Nails I Start Counting John Foxx Fischer-Z
From: varmint@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Samir Varma)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Why we shouldn't attack MS Employees (and other thoughts)
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:20:15 GMT
Reply-To: varmint@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Samir Varma)
Organization: Center for Particle Physics, University of Texas
Originator: varmint@huey.cc.utexas.edu

Lately there have been lots of posts attacking MS Employees and some responses
from them attacking IBM employees.  Can we please stop this?  It is not 
our (OS/2 users) interest.  Consider the following:

1)  Whether we like it or not, NT will have an impact on OS/2 and thus on its
users.  MS Employees are the primary and best source of information on the 
subject.  If we're going to keep attacking them, I wonder how many of them
are going to keep posting?

2)  Some of the MS Employees (such as Gordon Letwin) know a great deal about
OS/2.  Why don't we invite them to tell us what they know rather than attacking
them personally?  I bet Gordon knows more about the guts and philosophy of 
OS/2 than most of us so why not learn from what he knows?  In fact, why not
invite him to put up regular postings (if he has time) about some aspect of
OS/2 that he worked on?  (How about it Gordon?)

3)  If you ever feel that an MS Employee is spreading FUD then followup and
correct it.  It seems to me that this is a much better way of correcting the
FUD than attacking the Employee because if there are enough followups and 
enough instances of FUD then the credibility of that person will be about
zero.

4)  It's only an OS guys, this isn't a religious issue.  At this point in
time, OS/2 stands out as our (collective) best choice.  Maybe when NT is
released and is as good as MS claims and is stable etc. etc. it will be
the best choice.  We're consumers, dammit, not warriors and we should use
whatever's the best OS out there.  Why should we care who it comes from?
This competition benefits us, it doesn't hurt us.

5) Finally, some people (myself included) don't like some of MS's
alleged business practices.  Well, we have a good choice.  We can
simply choose not to buy MS products and write to them and tell them
why we're not doing so.  MS is in business to make money.  If people
don't buy their products then they won't make money.  It's as simple
as that.

And finally, let's lighten up guys.  This is .advocacy not .politics!

Samir Varma
Xref: sparky comp.os.os2.advocacy:3371 comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy:1646
From: nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Windows (Re: MS grasping at straws?...)
Date: 29 Jul 1992 14:56:51 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:
>dlcogswe@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Dan Cogswell) writes:
>> ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:

>> >Eh? I LIKE Edlin. For editing short batch files theres nothing
>> >quicker.
>> Well, that pretty much discredits anything further you say.  
>> I suppose you like command.com and GW-Basic, too.
>If you hate EDLIN......try vi!

What's wrong with vi?  I LIKE vi!

I just love editor flame wars.  And I know some Emacs fanatic is going to
jump into the fray soon.  ;-)

-- Nan
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: gordonl@microsoft.com (Gordon Letwin)
Subject: Re: Origins of IBM / Microsoft rift
Date: 25 Jul 92 00:53:38 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Jul18.001704.9600@sequent.com> furballs@sequent.com (Paul Penrod) writes:
>In article <BrJMAD.41E@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> cebarton@laplace.waterloo.edu (Casey Barton) writes:
>>
>>    My understanding is that Bill Gates has stated that MS will begin
>>developing for OS/2 2.0 once sales hit the 2 million mark.
>
>If the released projections from IBM are correct, that should be
>1Q93, sort of a New Years Resolution...

The key phrase here is "if the released projections...are correct".
The statements IBM makes to the press about the # of copies sold don't
match their royalty statements to us, not by a very large factor.
This is not just a matter of closing dates on the statements; even
correcting for that there is no match.

It's my personal opinion that this is one of the reasons that IBM has gone
out of it's way to start a pissing match between IBM and Microsoft.  Then
IBM can say anything that they want for sales figures and if Microsoft
says that it doesn't agree with our royalty statement then IBM hopes that
some people will think that Microsoft is just lying because of all the bad
blood.

Microsoft will start developing for OS/2 when there are close to 2 million
USERS of OS/2, not just when IBM starts to claim that figure, or not
just when 2 million bundled installs have been done.  Obviously our
apps group, like any other software company, cares about the number of
potential customers for the product, not the real or imaginary count
of cardboard boxes that have been printed.

So IBM can say what it wants about OS/2 numbers; if they're playing games
this will become clear to ISVs, who watch the customer demand curve,
over the next year or two.  You won't see any major articles saying
"IBM fibbed"; you'll just see small articles saying that ISVs are
decommitting because of "disappointing sales".  That's how you'll know.

	gordon letwin
	not speaking for microsoft
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara)
Subject: Re: Origins of IBM / Microsoft rift
Date: 31 Jul 92 03:19:50 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Jul30.205506.3722@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> mlevis@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Mike Levis) writes:
>In article <1992Jul30.200725.27897@mercury.unt.edu> mcmichel@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Lonny McMichael) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul30.160022.28509@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> mlevis@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Mike Levis) writes:
>>>What does MS consider selling well for OS/2?  Will MS really wait
>>>for OS/2 to have 2 million users before thinking of writing apps
>>>for OS/2?  They would have to catch up to there competition.
>>                                           ^^^^^
>>
>>Look everyone, Mike Levis can't spell either!
>
>Their is nothing wrong with my spelling.  Let me retype it for you, okay?
>``They would have to catch up to they're competition.''
>Satisfied now?
>
>#8^)   #8^)   #8^)

     All right - that's enough of this.  This thread is getting far
too friendly, which cannot be allowed.  In your next post, please
include lots of capital letters and exclamation points.  Make sure
to intentionally misspell the name of at least one Microsoft
product.  And please, make some disparaging comment about the
innate incompetence of all Microsoft employees, and describe how
everyone on the net is a corporate spokesperson.

     Obey or be punished.  We're Microsoft.  We're everywhere.
We're under your furniture (and you really do need to vacuum under
here every once in a while. Cough.)

					-Phil
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Lafornara         				1 Microsoft Way         
philipla@microsoft.com				Redmond, WA 98052-6399 
Note:  Microsoft doesn't even _know_ that these are my opinions. So there.
Xref: sparky comp.os.os2.advocacy:3372 comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy:1648
From: nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Windows (Re: MS grasping at straws?...)
Date: 29 Jul 1992 15:05:15 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:
>si0_tb90020@debet.nhh.no writes:

>>vi is a dream... Everything in vi is intuitive if you are familiar with
>>other products ...

>Ohhh... sarcasm.. I love it!

>If only they'd put a status line on the silly thing, then 
>we won't have all those garbled first Usenet posts from new
>users.. you know, the ones that end with:

>q
>:q
>Bye
>DAMMIT!xc^D

I like what some of the system admnistrator did: put the line 
setenv EXINIT "showmode" into every new user's .cshrc.

>before someone shows em how to use emacs...

I know Emacs is more powerful, but everytime I look at the meta-control
sequence my head starts to spin.

-- Nan
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: ekl@fics.uucp
Subject: Re: More Biased Reviews From ZD
Organization: Kvam data as
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 15:59:10 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.175623.26866@microsoft.com> philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara) writes:
>
>    Sorry, couldn't resist.  This whole double standard thing is
>just too annoying.
>
>					-Phil
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Phil Lafornara         				1 Microsoft Way         
>philipla@microsoft.com				Redmond, WA 98052-6399 
>Note:  Microsoft doesn't even _know_ that these are my opinions. So there.
>
>

You know, if you don't like the movie, you are allowed to leave
the theatre.

Eirik