HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: John_Graves@cellbio.duke.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: GRANDPA WALTON: Is he gay?  Help please....
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:43:10 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Duke University Medical Center

In article <1992Aug20.155630.6229@athena.cs.uga.edu> heath@athena.cs.uga.edu
(Terrance Heath) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.160716.701@ecst.csuchico.edu> dgwelton@ecst.csuchico.edu
(David G. Welton) writes:
>>
>>In a speech a few days ago Bush said:
>> 
>>[He'd like] "to make American families a lot more like the Walton's
>> and less like the Simpson's."

Of course, darlings, we're all mistaken to think that Bush is talking about the
Walton's of Johnboy et al.  

He means, much more likely, the Walton's, that fabulous merchant family which
owns WalMart's and which is considered the second wealthiest family in the
world.  Valued today at about $28 Billion dollars.

These are his people, not the poor folk of Walton Mountain.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Subject: Re: need good bible arguments AGAINST the anti-gay passages
Followup-To: soc.motss
Summary: "and he is gay"
Organization: various and shifting
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 03:08:29 GMT

in article <CARLTON.92Aug21215129@scws1.harvard.edu>
carlton@scws1.harvard.edu (david carlton) writes, about peter gomes,
undoing homophobic wielders of the bible, in the new york times:

 >And, one might add, he is gay.

pleased as i am to hear that excellent people are queer, i am
always a bit saddened to hear "and (s)he is gay" appended right
after someone's defense of our rights, as if only queers would stand
up for them.  

(the reverse effect, deliberate subversion [a gay tactic, consciously
chosen as such]: martha nussbaum in _the new republic_, carefully
concealing her straightness until after she's made the crucial points,
arguing both by the character of her writing and explicitly in her text
that lesbigay studies are important to everyone.)

of course, if we don't stand up for them, who will?

arnold (who wrote a fan letter to nussbaum and, ooh, got one
  back from her, and now has to try to explain outil and soc.motss
  to her, not to mention e-mail and usenet in general)


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ben@agora.uucp (Ben Tucker)
Subject: I was gender f*cked, & I liked it
Summary: Drag Queen Bus Driver
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:35:54 GMT

    I almost always miss it.  Out the door, to the corner, running,
and... no bus.  Ah well, the next one's in about 10 minutes.  Oh, 
there it is, merging back into traffic, climbing the hill.  It's hot
already, and the sun off the windows of the bus is blinding.  There's a
golden shimmer, and I catch a glimse of the driver.  Four inches of
dangling, gold earrings.  I move back, the door opens, and in the blink
on an eye, realize that it's a man.  My God, a drag queen's driving the
bus!  Looking around, everything seems normal.  I turn forward, she's
quite a sight.  Red, two inch nails, and black, fingerless gloves.  Hey,
she's a professional driver!  Redder-than-thou lipstick.  Heavy base.
Eye make-up from hell.  Big, round, vain, sunglasses.  Hair tied back.
She's making conversation with the thin woman.  It's gonna be a hot one.
    Twenty-eighth.  We're pulling up.  I can't stop smiling.  It's the
bookworm.  Clerical sort.  Kinda attractive, nerdish.  Fag.  Those
annoying glasses which darken, so you can't see the man.  He boards.
Nothing.  No reaction.  He's turned inward.  Perhaps he's content, and
not looking for anything.
    Thirty-fourth, the light.  Another man, closeted.  Wait!  He reacts!
A series of emotions, settling finally into distaste.  I *Smile*.  Nothing.
He walks passed.
    The fire-station.  I pull the cord, and stand.  Love the leather hand-
holds they've added. 
    "Take care."  Lame, but my auto-farewell, & I'd not had coffee yet.
    "Have a *Nice* Day.", with the acknowledgement of a smile.  I hope
she does.
    I like Portland.  Smiling, I putz off to starbucks.  I'm happy.

ben tucker -- ben@agora.rain.com -- (503) 236-5138 H - (503) 777-3361 W
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Those Who Are Gone Now
Date: 18 Aug 92 02:56:57 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


Responding to David Christopher Rogers's excellent
suggestion to add to the FAQ a list of motssers who are
now gone, he begins:

rob@mtdiablo.concord.ca.us <Rob Bernardo>

To be added:

seth@pbhya.pacbell.com <Seth Miller>
[???] <Doug Mosher>
ozdaltx!root@uunet.uu.net <Robert Scott>

Rest in peace, all, we remember you.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Introduction
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 09:56:08 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Aug18.041053.26226@wam.umd.edu> <l9118uINN9g0@mizar.usc.edu>
  <1992Aug18.122434.5222@macc.wisc.edu>

Jess Anderson writes:
>adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (Arne Adolphson) writes:
>>>Haven't you ever had a good friend who wasn't at the start?
>>>Have you ever felt like you have nowhere else to go?
>
>>Um, I'm not sure what the first question means.  The second?
>>Sure.
>
>The first question means: hasn't anyone ever forgiven you
>for being the way you are?

Given the way he's behaving, I would not be at all surprised if
the answer to this is "NO".
 
() The biggest barrier to communication is the assumption
() that it's taking place.
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Whizzzzzzz ( was Re: Introduction)
Date: 17 Aug 92 23:13:10 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Aug17.210014.18241@quantime.co.uk>
roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips) writes:

>I *was* resisting, but now I can't:
>should that be "regeler"
>(meaning, presumably, "regelating", i.e. "re-freezing"),
>or "reguler"
>(meaning, as Jess has earlier implied, "regulating")?

>Hoping to be regaled with rigorous replies,

I'm a regular guy who does not make the rules, but to try to
make a straight line to the actual verb, I think it's
r'egler.  

The Dictionnaire du francais contemporain, which is my usual
source, does not give a verb regeler (note, no acute accent
on the first e), but it's probably a legitimate word meaning
(as you note) "to freeze again (re+geler)."  I find no
indication of any verb reguler or r'eguler at all.

R'egler means:

to rule (as with a straightedge);
to adjust, regulate, or put in working order (as in mechanisms);
to fix (as in to establish in a definitive manner), 
   ex.: to establish an order of precedence; 
to follow as a model (as in role model);
to resolve, conclude (as for example a court action ruling);
to pay up (the restaurant bill, a debt, etc.)

plus other things.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: pauli@sgi.com (Paul Isaacs)
Subject: Re: Introduction
Organization: Silicon Graphics
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:20:32 GMT

In article <l928ovINNe3n@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>I'm just not willing to be party to the lovefest
>without seeing the goods first.
>

You're not one of those dreadful people who insists on putting their
hand up your shirt to make sure you're not fat before they'll go home with
you, are you?  

Or asking you what you like to do in bed and if it's not getting your
nipples tweeked while you suck their balls and their landlord fucks you and
their dentist scrapes your plaque then they call it off?  

No, I suspect you just want to make sure their record collection's O.K. before
you'll go to their place.

pauli.
From: hsu@sp24.csrd.uiuc.edu (William Tsun-Yuk Hsu)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: redefining masculinity
Keywords: SULLEN, CHILDHOOD
Date: 18 Aug 92 02:49:04 GMT
Organization: UIUC Center for Supercomputing Research and Development

adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

>The NZ accent doesn't hold a candle irritation-wise to 
>the Great Plains accent, which in turn doesn't hold a candle, 
>as I've written before, to the Chicago-area accent.  

Fortunately :-), very few people in the Chicago area speak with Chicago
accents. 

Bill
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjones@nyx.cs.du.edu (Rex A. Jones)
Subject: Robert Tilton off the air!
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 20:32:16 GMT

Just in case you have not heard, another one of the fundies has gone off
the air!.  That's right, Robert Tilton's SUCCESS-N-LIFE, has bottomed out.
Apparently Tilton's donations went through the floor after ABC investigated
him on Prime-Time Live.

NOTE:  Tilton was a prosperity theology preacher (or should I say is).  This
is the theology that says that if you send in money, God will reward you.  If 
you've ever watched Oral Roberts, you know what Prosperity Theology is.  If
you sent Tilton a request or money, he would send you GOD'S MIRICAL PLAN FOR
YOU.  

MOTSS relevance:  Tilton's a fundie...need I say more?
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: musical finale
Date: 23 Aug 92 03:42:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug23.034211.19064
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <CARLTON.92Aug22210029@husc10.harvard.edu> carlton@husc10.harvard.edu (david carlton) writes:
>the musical offering.
>of course, i'd rather hear it alive, something i still haven't managed
>to do - don't suppose there are enough boston-area motssers out there
>who'd be interested in doing it?

Kazoo or scat singing? :-)


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What the phobes really want
Date: 21 Aug 92 14:35:23 GMT

hughes@daffy.cis.udel.edu (John Hughes) writes:

>joelp@cs.man.ac.uk (Joel Parthemore || Pharos Project) writes:
>>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes about that Gay Problem and just what
>>should we do with these poor sods, anyway?...
>>>	Eventually we all end up being relocated to Delaware.
>>
>>Lord, what a nightmare!  So that's my subconscious reason why I'm not too keen
>>to return Stateside.  (OK, my sister lives in Delaware.)

>Hey! Hey! What's all this about Delaware? Is something wrong with Delaware?
>Hey, I *live* in Delaware.

>...but I can't help it. I tried to live in Philadelphia.

Hey!  What in tarnation is wrong with Philadelphia?
Nothing ... but of course, I endured *Pittsburgh* for many
years. :-)

[trying to add yet another level of indirection to this debate]

--
Jim Wood [jwood@siemens.siemens.com] (609) 734-3643
"Rise up on the wings of eagles, and two step among the stars.
 You are not forgotten.  Your smile will echo forever."
   -- Ryerson Schwark, to my friend Rob Bernardo.
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ba.motss
From: balistik@big-brother.nevada.edu (Shawn Hicks)
Subject: Re: The media, again (was: Why Benson Hedges #2 gay cigarette?)
Organization: Not yet, but we're working on it...
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:08:04 GMT

In article <l8m2j5INN1r1@spim.mips.com>, thomas@mips.com (Chris Thomas) writes:
>By coincidence, I just heard a report on CBS Radio news that Philip
>Morris was going to re-position one of its cigarette brands (don't
>remember which right now) to the "homosexual male market" by "advertising
>in the upscale homosexual magazine 'Genre'."  The report then said that
>the "homosexual community" was questioning this move, and played a
>soundbite from a Queer Nation member about why this advertising was
>necessary at all.
>
>So much for the facts.  Now... talk about misrepresentation, slanted
>reporting, and out-and-out, makes-me-mad bad journalism!

>-  Gee... advertising a cigarette in 'Genre' means it's a gay -- uh,
>   excuse me, *homosexual* -- cigarette!?

No, it means they think they can sell more of the things if they
advertise in a Gay magazine.  

>-  I'll bet 'Genre' is happy at the free publicity, but it's upscale
>   just because it won't accept 900-number advertising?  Doesn't say
>   much about the rest of the market....

No, maybe it's upscale because *it* targets a more educated or
discriminatory market.  Yes, not having 900 numbers is part of that,
but it isn't *the* reason by any means.  Motss has had several 
discussions about the marketing demographics of Advocate and how
they don't necessarily represent Queerdom as a whole because the
magazine targets a certain part of Queerdom to sell subscriptions
to.  The same may be said of Genre.  

>-  And someone from Queer Nation apparently speaks for the gay community
>   on smoking and advertising.  I'm sure the person didn't present himself
>   as a spokesperson, but that's certainly the way it got reported.  And
>   how did CBS pick this person?

Perhaps they spoke for themselves, or for their QN tribe.  Why must one
queer speaking on queer issues speak for us all?  While I didn't see
the media piece, I gather that the QN speaker didn't like the cigarette
advert in Genre.  If so, I agree.  And why *shouldn't* CBS pick that
person?  

>On one hand, it's somewhat flattering that this even gets mentioned in
>the little five-minute hourly news reports.  But, on the other hand, in
>this year of "family values" where we're quickly becoming this year's
>Willie Hortons, is this yet another way of making Ma and Pa America even
>more uncomfortable with us?
>-- 
>Chris Thomas                                                (408) 524-8067

Really, I see no great reason for ire over CBS's report.  While I don't
know the slant given to the story (but can guess), I'd say it was
probably reported in much the same manner as everything else CBS news
reports.

Really, quit being such a hypochondriac.

Shawn
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Subject: Re: Homosexual Privilege
Keywords: naughty more naughty really naughty
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 22:01:55 GMT

henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) snipes:
>grendel@uhuru.uchicago.edu (Cliff Winnig) wrote: 
>->
>->Grandmama, I'm shocked!  You didn't make that offer to the rest of us when  
>->we were at the .con! ;-)
>
>there's probably a good reason for that.

Having a worse day than usual, Henry?

--
Ellen Keyne Seebacher            elle@midway.uchicago.edu
  "Hon, if you can't read for content or write with content you should, at a
   very minimum, try to be amusing."  --Melinda Shore (shore@tc.cornell.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty)
Subject: Re: becoming a linguist
Organization: Auto-trol Technology Corporation -- Denver, Colorado
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:59:59 GMT

thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
: Chomsky's on usenet? How cool! I read his interview in Rolling Stone.
: Smart man.
: 
: John, being irrevelant, *again*.
: 
But never irrelevant!!!


Kathy
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Introduction
Date: 18 Aug 1992 12:26:59 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu


In article <1992Aug18.170149.27264@wam.umd.edu> 
lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Lovegod) writes:

> Well, at least everybody has a better idea of who I am, if that 
> counts for anything.  

Yes, we do.  Thank you for introducing yourself.  And no, I'm not 
being snide.

> I really didn't mean to precipitate the response I got.  It just  
> reminds me of how indicative the newsgroup is of the real world.  
> We have too many fucking factions within ourselves that don't even 
> try to see things eye to eye.  I certainly didn't mean to get in the 
> middle of that.  It's wrong and we ought to know a hell of a whole 
> lot better.

Sheesh.  I didn't realize you were *that* thin-skinned.  And I
*really* don't know how the "fucking factions" that we apparently
have too many of within ourselves has anything to do with my 
response.  As far as seeing things eye to eye goes, you should
keep in mind that I countered your proposed party game with
a party game more to my taste.  If you don't want to play my
game, why should I be expected to play yours?

> And Arne, I don't buy that shit about "Oh, Arne must be in a 
> bad mood" because that's bullshit.

No, I wasn't in a particularly bad mood.

> What, everybody is supposed to tip-toe around the net-queen Arne 

I'm only a pretender to that throne.  But as soon as I've finished
counting all the ballots, I believe I'll be able to claim the title
that is mine by right: Motss Grand Faggot.

> and discount everything he says as merely and emotional trip 
> without thinking of who he may be really hurting?  

Oh, for god's sake.  Let me brush the conceptual tears out of your 
eyes and give you a conceptual reassuring hug.  There, feel better now?

> Being the elder of the two of us, you should by now that 
> 1. You get what you pay for and 

Uh, yeah, I guess.

> 2. For every action, there is a reaction.

Well, OK, but...?

> Just because you may be PMSing doesn't mean you have to be a bitch.
> There are certain medications you can take, dear, like Midol 2000.   
> They even make a night-time version.  And next time, please use 
> plastic hangers, dear.  The rust has gone from your clothes, through 
> your skin and to your heart.  I suppose the cost for being a bitch 
> is rough.

The problem with being a bitch is that one ends up being forced
to associate with crybabies who can't roll with the punches.
Why are you taking this so *seriously*?  

Jeez.

Arne
From: wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: How evil are the Republicans?
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:18:45 GMT

lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax) writes:

>I don't know about anyone else, but the Republican convention has
>frightened me.  We hear how all our country's problems are because of
>someone else and how if only President Bush could do whatever he wanted the
>country would be okay.  We hear how all the good things that have happened
>in the world are because of President Bush.  We hear how a return to a
>narrow definition of "family" will improve our economy and help our
>country.  Now, of course, the Republicans offer no reasons or evidence for
>any of these statements.  But what else is new.

This is not unique to this Republican campaign.  All politicians will blame
their opponents for what's wrong with the country, and take credit for what's
good.  The only one who took any blame recently was Jimmy Carter in 1980
(for inflation and for the failed attempt at rescuing Iran hostages), and
look what happened to him at the polls.

If this were *all* the Republicans were planning to do this fall, I wouldn't
care so much.  But you proceed to identify exactly why their campaign is so
fundamentally amoral:

>[Hitler] claimed that if you followed him without question, even if you
>disliked a couple of things he stood for, he would improve the economy and
>make his country powerful again.  He would make certain that those that did
>not represent his definition of "good", and who he blamed for the country's
>woes, would be kept carefully in check.  He talked of forcing religion,
>albeit just his view of religion, back into the lives over every citizen,
>especially the captive audience of unsuspecting children.  He had the
>support of many of the fundamentalist Christian religions.

This is a very good analogy, but you probably should be careful to say that
Hitler was an extreme case of Bush.  You have my permission (and encouragement)
to say that Hitler is *not* an extreme case of Quayle.  Now there's a Nazi.

>The Nazis even went so far as to attack a group which Quayle has had no
>end of enjoyment in attacking:  the media and entertainment "elite."  Bush
>speaks out of both sides of his mouth on abortion.  And his attitude towards
>the rights of gays and lesbians reeks heavily of a fascist attempt to repress
>a minority; there is little difference between Republican attacks on my
>sexuality than Hitler's attacks on the "evil" of the Jews in pre-Nazi Germany.

You are dead right; but the difference here is that Hitler spoke with
conviction and became so *popular*.  Bush fails to convince anyone that
he holds any real beliefs, and as such fails the test of leadership.  For
all of the evil actions which Hitler undertook, no one accused him of poor
leadership.
--
Jim Wood [jwood@siemens.siemens.com] (609) 734-3643
"Rise up on the wings of eagles, and two step among the stars.
 You are not forgotten.  Your smile will echo forever."
   -- Ryerson Schwark, to my friend Rob Bernardo.
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: mandatory service (was Re: Metzenbaum introduces Senate bill to end military ban)
Date: 13 Aug 92 08:06:31 GMT

shore@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Melinda Shore) writes:
>In article <15731@star.cs.vu.nl> fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!) writes:
>:What _I_ would like to see is the women taking to streets, fighting against
>:this last peice of sexual inequality. Of course, they don't get drafted. Of 
>:course, they don't mind _this_ piece of sexual inequality, and who can 
>:blame them?

>Oh, please.  If you don't know what you're talking about, don't
>talk.

>Women are *very* active in the anti-draft movement, not only on
>the picket lines but also in counseling centers.  And yes, there
>are those women who do feel that women should be drafted.

>My own feeling is that the way to resolve the inequity is to
>end the draft.

Gee Melinda, how come you know the Dutch scene better than I do? I must
say, if the women over here in the Netherlands are so against the
sexual inequality of the way _we_ draft (which was what I was talking
about) I must say they are doing a pathetic job about getting
publicity.

But by all means, should I be wrong in thinking that women over here
aren't that involved at all, do correct my mistake.

Oh wait, they're all stealth lesbians.....
							FJ!!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Rob Bernardo
Organization: QueerNet
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 03:01:11 GMT

In article <wood.714247815@jfred> wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood) writes:
>his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM (Howard Solomon - SunExpress Support Engineer) writes:
>>In article 714141992@jfred, wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood) writes:
>>> He was named for his father, Jack Robert Bernardo.
>>Are you sure?  That goes against Jewish tradition.  Jews name in honor of those
>>who have passed on.  I trust someone soon will be named after Rob...
>Yes, I am sure (saw it on the gravestone).  His father's name was Jack Robert
>Bernardo.  The family was Sefardic, so perhaps their traditions are a little
>different.  I don't know.

Bingo.  Ashkenazim (Eastern European tradition) name for the dead.  Sefardim
(elsewhere) honor the living, often a grandparent though sometimes a parent,
with a name.

Not to use this in place of a full eulogy, but it occurs to me that the first
time I spent a block of time at Rob's house after my move to California was
(Thanksgiving?  Christmas?) 1988; in addition to Terry, Rob's mother and me,
both Rob and his father were there.

Sigh.  Farewell for now, fine sirs.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG                 {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.sex.motss