From: csuat@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Pete "Ganders" Favelle)
Newsgroups: alt.romance
Subject: Re: Lying to oneself and erroneous assumptions...
Date: 11 Apr 92 15:42:55 GMT
	<1992Apr10.185137.13403@hemlock.cray.com>
Organization: Computing Services, Warwick University, UK
Originator: csuat@lily


on 10 Apr 92 23:51:37 GMT,
robd@cray.com (Robert Derrick) said:

> So how much did you believe your "lie", and how much faith would
> you have been willing to place in it.

> As an example, would all atheists be willing to sign a document
> consigning their soul to Satan?  I have a friend who did, to prove
> his conviction, but I've met others whose faith starts to falter
> here.

 Hmm... this is an interesting point - if you believe in something utterly,
and it later turns out to be incorrect, are you lying to yourself? I think
not. You are simply wrong.

  To lie to yourself you have to start with something which you know to be
true, and yet force yourself to see it as false (or the other way around).
Even so, you still have that knowledge that what you believe is against the
reality of the world - it becomes a successful lie if you can believe it with
such sincerity that you forget (at least from your conscious) the original
truth. 

> Anyone else care to bare their soul -- for it seems that it is just
> such a thing that will serve?

> I am surprised that no one is even willing to contrive an example.

  Ok then, here's an example that quite a few people should be able to relate
to. (not exactly soul-baring, but it's a generic example based on what I've
experienced).

  Suppose you find yourself developing feelings for somebody of a romantic
nature. Suppose you find yourself slowly falling in love with this person.
Now imagine that this person is, for some reason, completely out of reach from
a romantic point of view - say, for example, she's dating your best friend, or
she's married, or somehow your morals prevent you from even contemplating a
relationship with her. And yet...

  Maybe what I'm thinking of is more what Mark Israel calls `limerance' (I
know it's not only you, Mark, it's just I always think of your posts when I
see it :). Anyway, the point is you end up emotionally wrapped in this person.
It can drive you crazy - the best solution is to forget about it, put it out
of your mind, ignore those feelings, and in a way lie to yourself about their
very existance.

  It's possible - I know because I've done it. Totally convinced that those
feelings were gone, maybe had never existed. Oh, they were still there, but I
refused to even admit to them very successfully for a short time. A long while
later, I can (with a reasonable perspective on it) see that those feelings
were there - in fact the first step in having them fade away was probably
admitting to them. Certainly, lying to yourself isn't a good idea (imho). But
it also isn't impossible - at least not for everybody.

  'scuse the rambling... hope that sheds some light on things (coz if not,
I'll have to give you another example and my life hasn't been _that_ full :)

Hugs,

Ganders
--
	      "There's no time for us, there's no place for us."
     "What is this thing that builds our dreams, yet slips away from us?"

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