From: rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: Was TOS really that bad? (Re: TOS actors)
Date: 9 Sep 92 18:57:55 GMT
Reply-To: rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Dept., Madison, WI

In <1992Sep8.204432.4751@bnlux1.bnl.gov> schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder) writes:
>In article <rawdon.715903854@cs.wisc.edu> rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu writes:
>>In <1992Sep7.192637.7358@cco.caltech.edu> tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>>>rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon) writes:
>[on Inner Light...]
>>A plot show.  (A mostly good plot show, though the technological rationale
>>is a bit of a fast one.)  The specific natures of the characters involved
>>did not have any real bearing on the show.  I'm also on record as having said
>>that "The Inner Light" would have been just as good if the characters (though
>>not necessarily the actors) of Data, Worf, Riker, Geordi and maybe Dr.
>>Crusher had been in Picard's place.  (In fact, it might have been *more*
>>interesting with one of the first two in his place.  If it had been "a Data
>>story" instead of "a Picard story" then it *might* have turned out to be a
>>character study.)

>I disagree with you when you say that any other character would have
>sufficed in place of Picard in that episode.  Of all the characters,
>Picard seems to be the most realistic and believable.  Above all, his
>character is the most noble.  The premise for Inner Light required a
>very noble character, one who would adopt the dead culture as his/her
>own, be an active contributor.

Right.  This would have worked with any of numerous other regulars on either
series.  LaForge and Riker certainly would qualify; no question at all in
my mind.  Ditto Kirk, McCoy, Scotty, Sulu and Chekov.

>				  Active to the point that he would
>develop strong bonds with the other characters.  For example, knowing
>that Picard is very controlled and rather _a_motional in normal
>circumstances, the scenes in which he was shown as close to his wife
>were particularly moving.

Picard's "amotional" character has pretty much evaporated in the last couple
of seasons, starting with "Family".

>			    Would the scene where he comforts her during
>her death have worked with LaForge?  With Data or Worf?  I don't think
>so.

Oh sure, it would have worked with LaForge.  With Data and Worf the story
would have taken on a different tone (especially with Data, since the
character's nature would have probably changed permanently, which is why I
think it actually would have made a good Data story), but the essential
*story* would have remained the same.

>If find your wish to have seen Data in this role particularly odd.  The
>entire story was about emotions.  About how Picard _might_ have lived
>his life in a different way, had circumstances been different.

Actually, I see the story as being about loss; loss after loss after loss,
throughout a whole lifetime, and then the experience of (essentially)
dying and living to tell the tale, recognizing everything that you've lost
forever.  It was not a story about *dealing* with this loss (hence, it was
not really a character-oriented story, because we didn't see the nuts-and-
bolts of Picard *dealing* with his loss in a manner which would have been
different from some of the other characters), but just about the *loss*.

>								 How he
>might have had a wife, might have had a family, might have been a loving
>father.  None of this would have been possible with, say, Worf or Data.

Oh, sure it would.  Indeed, it might have made a more complex story.

>I think you may have missed the point of the episode.  The episode
>wasn't about the sci-fi premise of a dead society transferring knowlege
>across the centuries.  If it had been, then yes, Data might have
>sufficed.  But it wasn't.  It was about what might have been.

I agree that it wasn't about "transferring knowledge across the centuries"
(that was just about the weakest part of the story, though it served as a
motivator for the episode), but I certainly don't agree that it was about
"What might have been."  That, too, was just a device through which the
"point of the episode" was made.

>>For that matter, it would have worked fine with Kirk, McCoy, Scotty, Sulu
>>or Chekov (though perhaps not Spock).

>With Kirk or McCoy, yes.  With Scott, Sulu, or even more laughably
>Chekov?  Heh.  No.  In case you didn't notice, in TOS Sulu and Chekov
>were mere caricatures.

Oh, I agree (with maybe one or two exceptions; Sulu in "The Naked Time",
and Chekov in "Day Of The Dove", for instance).  This is a reflection of how
"The Inner Light" was not a character-driven episode.

>			They never reminded me of real people at any
>time.  How forgiving we are of ol' TOS.  How critical of TNG.

TNG provides us with more to be critical of.  It's an inferior show, IMO.

>>>>TNG's best stories are plot-focused rather than character-focused, 

>>>I tend to disagree.  "The Measure of a Man", "Darmok", "The Inner Light", and
>>>shows of that nature strike me as rather intensely character-focused, and
>>>quietly superb.

>>Well, "MoaM" was a misfire all around, I think.  Character-focused, yes, but
>>basically a botch of a story anyway.

>Botch of a story?  Phooey.  MoaM was a well thought-out morality play
>that got to the heart of some basic ethical issues.  The court room
>discussions were thought provoking and interesting.  What else can you
>ask of a television drama?

Well, I would ask for a less idiotic plot.  Like, say, one where a case of
potentially galaxy-shaking import isn't decided in the boonies of space,
and the prosecutor isn't one of the defendant's best friends.

>>But I see neither "Darmok" nor "The Inner Light" as being character-focused.

>Despite the fact that they both centered on exploring the personalities
>and internal drives of the character?

No, *because* of the fact that they both *didn't* center on exploring the
personalities and internal drives of the characters.

("Darmok" is one of my favorite TNG episodes, but I would not by any means
call it a character-oriented episode.)

-- 
Michael Rawdon				 rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Department, Madison, WI

"Go?  Where are we going?"
"Where they went."
"Suppose they went nowhere?"
"Then, this will be your big chance to get away from it all."
			- McCoy and Kirk; Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc