HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aperez+@CS.CMU.EDU (Alicia Perez)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Free reading material for the blind
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:08:53 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University


A friend of mine is blind and has some Braille materials, tapes, and records
that she would like to donate. Do you know of any organization that might 
take them? 

Please reply by e-mail to aperez@cs.cmu.edu, as I can't read 
this newsgroup anymore (and excuse me if the question is not 
appropriate here, but I don't know of other place where to ask it).

Thanks a lot!

Alicia
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 07:28:19 PST
From:         "John R. Covert 28-Jan-1993 1020" <covert@COVERT.ENET.DEC.COM>
Subject:      RE: PREGNANCY

>As a devout catholic women I had NO reservations about having an abortion at
>6 months into my pregnancy.

At SIX MONTHS!!!  Do you know what you killed?

>That was the choice, a new career or to stay at home and watch a baby.

Who says you had to stay at home and watch a baby?  There are two million
couples in this country waiting to adopt.  So you killed a child to get a
job.  Disgusting.  There were plenty of other choices.

>The only thing that will make you feel guilty about abortion is a priest.

No, there are millions of people who are not priests who think that abortion
is wrong.  Even those of us who are not priests will call on you to acknowledge
your guilt and be reconciled.  I would suggest you work on it soon, because
some day you may realize what you actually did.

In fact, the vast majority of Americans, even those who don't even believe in
God, think that an abortion at six months for pure convenience is exactly the
same as killing a newborn infant.  What a horrible thing to do!

But then in this country we have people who think nothing of blowing a
schoolmate away to steal his bicycle.

The respect for life begins with respecting life in the womb.  If you can
justify killing defenseless babies, it's easy to make the step to killing
just anyone.

/john
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 22:44:27 EST
From:         RASCH@C-H.BWH.HARVARD.EDU
Subject:      Re: The Real Presence

>        Now, what remains is the appearance of bread. The
> appearance would include what appears to our senses either
> aided or unaided. What remains has the appearance of
> bread to the naked eye, to the nose, through a microscope,
> through an electron microscope, etc. etc.
>       Some people might be tempted to say "if it looks like,
> bread, smells like bread, and in everyway acts like bread
> then it is bread"....

I can't resist the old saw about hosts: "When one receives Communion
one makes two acts of faith - first that it is really the Body of Christ,
second that it is really bread".

Being Anglican myself, 'Real Presence' to me means that the sacrament is
*not* symbolic; Christ is present in the sacrament, the 'outward and material
sign of an inward and spiritual grace '; I don't treat the bread
and wine as if they were merely bread and wine; but I don't worry too much
about the mechanics.  So for me, receiving the sacrament in a Roman Catholic
Church would be the same as receiving it in my own church.

Joan Rasch   internet Rasch@c-h.bwh.harvard.edu
             FidoNet  jrasch 1:101/230

PS  Thanks to all who sent messages about how to sign on to this conference.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: dschenke@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dennis L Schenkel)
Subject: Mary's Msg from Medj...25 Jan
Keywords: Mary, Our Lady, Medjugorje
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 05:32:04 GMT



          Our Lady's Message from Medjugorje, January 25, 1993

          Dear  Children, Today  I  call you  to  accept and  live  my
          messages with seriousness.  These days are the days when you
          need to  decide for God,  for peace and  for the good.   May
          every  hatred and jealousy disappear from your life and your
          thoughts, and may there only dwell love for God and for your
          neighbor.  Thus,  only thus shall you be able to discern the
          signs of this time.  I am  with you, and I guide you into  a
          new  time, a time which God gives  you as grace, so that you
          may get to know him more.  Thank you for having responded to
          my call.
-- 
Dennis Schenkel, Graduate Student    *****************************************
Ohio State University, English Dept  * Pax Christi Vobiscum...  from one of  *
dschenke@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu   * those who "...wait in joyful hope..." *
    --My opinions are mine--         *****************************************
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 10:25:16 PST
From:         "John R. Covert 28-Jan-1993 1321" <covert@COVERT.ENET.DEC.COM>
Subject:      Re: PREGNANCY

>...but wasn't there something posted about some program called "Racheal"
>last year, for Catholic women who had had abortions?

There may be more information available; this information comes from a
pamphlet "In Support of Women" published by MCFL.  I'm sure these Mass.
offices could help someone anywhere in the country get in touch with a
local office.

/john

                           POST ABORTION COUNSELING

Since the legalization of abortion and its widespread use, many self-help
groups and an entire post-abortion counseling specialty have developed.
The following resources are available for those seeking help for post
abortion trauma:

        Day Break               (617) 576-1981          Cambridge
        Project Rachel          (617) 783-5480          Boston
        WEBA                    (800) 640-7438          Cape Cod
        (Women Exploited        (508) 432-7663          Harwich
         by Abortion)           (508) 653-0564          Natick
                                (413) 732-6348          Springfield
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:17:08 MST
From:         jww@EVOLVING.COM
Subject:      Re: The Real Presence
              1624" at Jan 25, 93 1:32 pm

Dear John --

You write:

> It should be pointed out that the documents of Vatican II specifically
> refer to the Anglicans as _distinct_ from Protestants.

Where?  I remember a passage in the document on the Ecumenical Movement
that says (translating roughly and by memory) "Among those churches in
which some Catholic elements and traditions remain, the Anglican
communion has a special place."  I don't recall any other mentions of
Anglicanism in the Council documents -- but my memory is hardly exhaustive.

> An Anglican need have no concern about the validity of Anglican orders, as
> long as the ordination was not performed by one of the women who have been
> ordained without the Whole Church agreeing that women can receive the
> sacrament of Holy Orders.

Might there be a question about the validity of ordinations (even of
men by men) performed by a church that "ordains" women?  I think the
West would generally argue for validity, the East against; but it's
worth thinking about.  Does a church's embracing of heresy in regard to
the nature of the ministry invalidate its orders?  (Of course, that was
one of Rome's early arguments against our, but nobody else's, sacraments.)

And bravo! for your postings -- careful, accurate, orthodox.

-- Fr. John
From: dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: directions
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:15:35 GMT
Reply-To: dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: clesun.central.sun.com

Joan Rasch writes:


>> I wonder if anyone else has noticed that it is perhaps those churches
>> and seminaries which are doing least to adapt to the modern world (by
>> that I mean, doing least to change fundamental beliefs, principles,
>> social outlooks and so on) which are the most flourishing.



>On the other hand, one could also argue that giving people a chance to
>engage in denial about the real world by isolating themselves from any-
>thing that engages them with the complexity and discomfort and ambiguity
>that's out there in the modern world indeed may well be popular.  So are
>pain-killing drugs.  People may well feel better by being sealed off from
>conflict, but I don't think it ultimately does them, or the world, any
>good.

I understand Mother Theresa's order is fluorishing.  

The typical parish priest is subject to being called at all hours for births, deaths,
counseling, suicide threats, theology questions, comforting the sick....

The member of a contemplative religious order awakens several times a night for
extended prayer, finally awakening at 5AM for a meager breakfast, then more long
hours of prayer or manual labor.  At all times they are contemplating what they
see as the ultimate Reality.  Is this denying the world, and is it inferior to
jumping fully into the world by watching situation comedies, engaging in
indiscriminate pursuit of pleasure or dollars, trying to out-do the neighbors,
or any of the other wordly-wise activities engaged in by those of us who are
sophisticated and so toughly facing reality?

Dave Bernard
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:22:14 PST
From:         "John R. Covert 22-Jan-1993 1623" <covert@COVERT.ENET.DEC.COM>
Subject:      RE: Shroud of Turin (was: Real Presence)

The Church has declared that the Shroud of Turin is not likely to
be authentic, but still remains a useful devotional piece of art.

/john
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 10:30:54 EST
From:         "Donald J. Magee" <djm@TRENT.ATT.COM>
Subject: Re: Celibacy oath
              93 9:53 pm

>
> Don, I find a large jump in your presentation.  The post referred to a
> Roman Catholic priest leaving the Roman Church, and receiving a
> dispensation from the Pope of his vow of celibacy.  You then project
> this to laicizing him.  I was not awater that the ordination ritual of
> the Roman Church contained any vow of celibacy.  He did not ask the
> Pope to be dispensed from his ordination vows, only the vow of
> celibacy.  He then is received into the Episcopal Church as a Priest,
> and may be married thereafter if he wishes.  I don't see the link you
> assume.  Maybe I am missing something......???  Please explain.
> Thanks,                       Len Howard
>

I was merely trying to understand a situation which seemed strange.
Latin Rite Roman Catholics priests all take a vow of celibacy.

Can. 1037 - An unmarried candidate for the permanent diaconate and a
candidate for the presbyterate is not to be admittted to the order of
diaconate unless in a prescribed rite he has assumed publicaly before
God and the Church the obligation of celibacy or professed perpetual
vows in a religious order.

The Pope can release a priest from this vow.  It is done (as far as I
know) only as a part of his laicization.  (I know of no Latin Rite RC
priest who is allowed to exercise his orders and engage in sexual
relations.)  This is why I thought the priest underwent laicizaition.
(Someone please correct me if I am wrong.)  After laicization the
priest may marry but is not allowed to exercise his Orders.

Since he was released from the vow of celibacy, and I think this is
only done as part of laicization, why would a priest ask for release,
go through the proper RC channels, be laicized then exercise his
Orders when laicized priests may not.

It seemed strange to me, at least as I interpreted his release from
celibacy involving (I think) his laicization.

Don
trent!djm@jolt.att.com
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From: jocallag@artin.helios.nd.edu (john ocallaghan)
Subject: Anglicans,Divorce, and Royalty
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 04:00:32 GMT

I am hoping to get some information from our Anglican friends out there.
I read recently, I don't remember where, that an Anglican bishop, either
on behalf of or in concurrence with the Archbishop of Canterbury, stated in 
the House of Lords that divorce and remarriage on the part of the Prince of
Wales would not bar him from serving as head of the Church of England.

Can anyone confirm this statement.

If it's true, it spurs great speculation on the wheels of fortune.
I recall reading in a history of WWII, that George made a much better wartime
leader of the English.  Apparently in the thirties, Edward showed a certain
admiration for Hitler as a political leader and what he had accomplished.
The author was speculating that had Edward not abdicated the throne because
of the constitutional crisis generated over his desire to marry a divorcee,
the resistance of the English prior to the American entry into the war might
not have sttod firm.  As Hitler had no desire to invade and conquer England,
but to bomb it into making peace, so that he could turn his full intention
to the Soviet Union, the author speculated that Edward would have pressured
Churchill into making peace with Hitler as the French had.

Interesting, no?

Peace,
John

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Date:         Sun, 24 Jan 1993 19:55:00 EST
From:         "UPAC01::JENNINGS" <jennings@ABB.COM>
Subject:      Ideas are needed for synod attendance

Hello,

This sping the Dioceses of Rochester, NY will be holding the second half of
its Seventh Synod.  Through the Synod, the parishes and communities of the
diocese will, in a concrete way, experience their co-responibility for
the Church of Rochester and its mission. We will be using the synod process
to examing some topics of concern to the Church in planning for the future.

In the second half the following 3 topics will be discussed:

    1. How can we meet the special needs of youth and young
    adults, as well as the elderly and those who care for them?

    2. How can we improve our efforts in faith development and in
    inviting others to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

    3. How can we as Church do the work of justice, combating
    racism and sexism, poverty, unemployment, and the lack of
    affordable housing and health care?

One week will be devoted to each topic.  There will be meetings scheduled
during for the people of the parish to come together to discuss the topic.
They will form small groups (6-10 people) where the discussion lead  by a
facilitator and make recommendations.   Then the small groups will meet as
a lagre group to vote on the three most important recommendations.  These
will be then submitted to the diocese.  All the recomendations will be kept
by the parish for action.

What I am asking every one is this: How can we get a good turn out at these
meetings?  We want active members, Sunday Mass only members, not so active
members and not acitive members to participate as everyone's opinion is
valuable.  Please, any idea is welcome.

Our parish has about 600 families registered as members and the first hal
of the synod we had about 160 people show up.  I would like to do better
for the second half.

Thanks for the help.

Tom Jennings
jennings@abb.com
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Date:         Sun, 24 Jan 1993 19:26:00 EST
From:         "UPAC01::JENNINGS" <jennings@ABB.COM>
Subject:      Hello

Hello,

I would like to introduce myself.  My name is Tom Jennings and I live in
Fairport, NY (near Rochester) with my wife and 4 kids.  I am a Roman Cahtolic
and active in our parish as a Parish Council member, Eucaristic Minister,
Reader, and Minister of Hospitality.  I also volunteer as a MOH at a shelter
for homeless men.  As for my profession, I am a software engineer for
ABB Process Automation.

I have enjoyed the discussions and have learned something.  In fact, as a rsult
of subscribing to this list, I now say the Rosary every day.


Tom Jennings.
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From: creps@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Subject: Re:      Symbols at Mass (was Re:homilies)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:14:47 GMT

In article <930127083926.20202489@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM> URSIC@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM writes:
>>BTW,  in researching what a homily should be, I noted that Canon Law reserves
>>the preaching of a homily during Mass to persons who are ordained.  Well,
>>last Sunday's sermon was delivered by a lay person.  You learn something
>>every day....
>
>Like there are obsolete laws on the books?:-) The Mass is celebrated by
>all present, not just the ordained. - J.J.

   Please expound on this.  Also, what if no ordained priest is
present?

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:09:08 -0500
From:         URSIC@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM
Subject:      RE: Joke

"Stephen A. Creps" <creps@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU> writes:
>   There's going to be a new TV drama called "Crimefighter Priest," about
>a Catholic priest who goes from town to town solving crimes. The trouble is,
>he can never get a conviction, because all his suspects confess.
The insinuation that all his possible criminals are Catholic is just
another example of Catholic bashing and liberal bias in the TV media. - J.J.
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:23:00 PST
From:         Jim McIntosh <Jim@AMERICAN.EDU>
Subject:      Catholic List Archives

On Mon, 25 Jan 1993 09:15:19 -0600 Roger L Rainwater said:
>Some days ago someone posted a long description of the many types of
>rosaries.  I accidentally pushed the wrong key and this file disappeared.  I
>tried to get the appropriate log file but found one isn't authorized to
>obtain these.

You shouldn't have a problem getting the log files. To get a list, send the
command INDEX CATHOLIC in the body (not the subject!) of an e-mail message to
listserv@american.edu. When you've identified the proper log file, send the
command SEND CATHOLIC LOGyymmw (for example, SEND CATHOLIC LOG9301D) to the
same address.

You can also do searches through the archives, but the process is more
complex. It's fairly simple if you have access to BitNet, but almost
impossible if you are on some other network. Send the command INFO DATABASE
to the above address to get details.

At this time I have the other files in the CATHOLIC FILELIST available via
anonymous ftp from ftp.american.edu, but not the log files. I am working on
that and may have something fairly soon.

Jim McIntosh (jim@american.edu)
The American University
Washington, DC USA 20016-8019
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Date:         Sun, 24 Jan 1993 15:59:45 EST
Reply-To:     tfm+Catholic@CS.CMU.EDU
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was
              Thomas_McGinnis@SEGNO.SOAR.CS.CMU.EDU
From:         Thomas McGinnis <tfm+Catholic@CS.CMU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: The Real Presence

In article <930122153109.2e01a69c@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM> URSIC@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM
 writes:
>CCCAMPER%MIZZOU1.BITNET@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU writes:
>>What do you think of the bread and wine turning to real human flesh
>>and blood for the doubting? (assuming this is real) Just curious.
>
>OK, I found it quite unbelievable, the opportunity for fraud could
>not be ruled out as I would doubt the traceability of the evidence.

 But you have no trouble accepting "evidence" of evolution that's been
buried in the ground for millions of years (they say)...? Phooey!

 (Just trying to tie a couple of JJ's threads together.... :-) )

Pax et Bonum,
Tom.
--
Thomas F. McGinnis                                     tfm+Catholic@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3891
Any opinions are mine except where noted, and not necessarily those of CMU.
spes mea in Deo                               nunc scripsi totum da mihi potum
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 11:36:17 EST
From:         "Donald J. Magee" <djm@TRENT.ATT.COM>
Subject:      Re: condemnation of homosexual acts is (un)necessary...
              "URSIC@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM" at Jan 27, 93 10:29 am

>
> "Donald J. Magee" <djm@TRENT.ATT.COM> writes:
> >I deny no one basic human dignity.  I defend the teachings of the
> >Church.  Homosexual acts are immoral.  The scriptures say it.  Holy
> >tradition says it.  The bishops have said it.  I believe it.

> So, Don, you would have no objection to a chaste homosexual in the military,
> while you would perhaps favor rules dispelling un-chaste heterosexuals? - J.J.
>

J.J.,

   Those are two issues.  I have no problem with chaste homosexuals.
Active homosexuals in the military violate the Universal code of
Military Justice (I think that is it).  Some time in the middle of
this century Congress passed a law against those acts by including it
in the UCMJ.  Dispelling unchaste heterosexuals (from the military) is
a military matter.  Clinton (our pro-abort, pro-gay, adulterous
president) can do whatever he wants about allowing homosexuals in the
military, but he cannot change the laws passed by Congress.

More importantly, you have tried to mix issues.  I said the teaching
of the Church is clear on homosexual acts, they are immoral.  I said
nothing about the US military, and how they should treat homosexuals.

If we could talk about the Vatican military :), penalize all who
violate the applicable Canon Law of the Roman Catholic Church.

I care about theological truth, and how it effects my life as a
Christian, the life of the Church, the life of the world.  I
personally think that homosexuals should be treated with respect as a
person, not because they are homosexuals.  I have a long time friend
who is gay.  I trust him with my children.  I love him as a Christian
brother.  He has AIDS and I don't freak about it.  He is my friend.
He is a deeply religious man, who has been abandoned by his family.
This is clearly wrong and in opposition to the gospel.  When asked
objectively are his sexual acts immoral, I say yes.  When asked do I
love him (as a brother in Christ), I say yes.

It is pretty simple JJ, sin is sin and is abhorant.  You must always
love the sinner.


Don Magee
trent!djm@jolt.att.com
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 12:13:59 PST
From:         "Greg Wolff, MISG, ICS::, MSO1-1/J50" <wolff@ICS.ENET.DEC.COM>
Subject:      RE: The Real Presence

    J.J replies:
|> "Greg Wolff writes in reply to what I wrote:
|>>my belief that transubstantiation cannot be deemed "infallible"
|>    The Council of Trent dogmatically defined, in an infallible statement,
|>    that "transubstantiation" is the correct and necessary understanding of
|>    the Real Presence.  "... let him be anathema who denies this ..."

|Yikes, where'd all these frogs come from, they're hoppin all over me:-) -J.J.

    I could not help laughing!

    However, the question that is the implicit foundation for our argument
    is an eternally, deadly, serious one.  It was even asked of Jesus
    Christ by Pilate on that Good Friday of the Atonement:

                    "What is Truth?"



                                            In Christ the Savior

                                            Greg Wolff
                                            wolff@ics.enet.dec.com
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