From: gsurbeck@eng.umd.edu (Gregory D. Surbeck)
Subject: Re: Bike paths (FROM Re: Cycling and Environmentalism)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 04:42:36 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park

	In a previous post I mentioned that I felt uncomfortable
cycling on 45 mph roads without shoulders.  In my opinion, it caused
danger to me and annoyed the people behind me.  Someone (sorry that I
didn't catch your name) correctly pointed out that I annoyed the cars,
not necessarily other types of people.  I have enjoyed reading the
articles within this debate.
	If I travel at an average rate of 15 mph and can attain 30 mph
on a downhill, I do not think I should be traveling on a 45 mph road
without a shoulder.  I am impeding traffic, as sure as an automobile
traveling 40 mph on an interstate.  Those people cause accidents.
	I have read your statistics and I have read your arguments
about bikeways.  My opinion has begun to sway towards yours.  For
anything but low-speed riding, bikeways pose a statistically greater
accident hazard.  Of course I would like to question several points of
the statistics presented to this forum.  If this information was not
mentioned simply to preserve bandwidth, I apologize for any implied
criticism:
	(1) What was the average speed of the cyclists on the road
compared to the posted speed limits?
	(2) When were they riding?  On a Sunday morning, I agree with
every statement made by pro-road persons.  Do the accident rates vary
with time?  Could bikeways actually be safer during say, morning rush
hour, than streets?
	(3) What kind of cyclists got into accidents on the road and
on the bikeways?  Were hardened roadies being compared to children
with their families?  Were people hell-bent on training going to
average over 24 mph on the bikeways no matter what?
	(4) You used statistics showing the bike-car accidents were
not the largest hazard faced by cyclists.  Were the statistics taken
for people who ride only on roads, or did they use paths, too?
	Going back to my comment about traveling on roads without
shoulders:  I am not afraid to travel at 15 mph on a 45 mph road.  I
consider it rude.  When someone takes a rural highway, he planned on
doing 45 mph.  Then here is this cyclist doing 30 mph below the speed
limit!  The state of Maryland several years ago grew so concerned
about people traveling under the speed limit that they made a
television commercial which aired a lot over a several week period.
Second the state of Maryland has a law on the books which states that
if weather conditions do not inhibit the flow of traffic (or other
external forces, such as accidents ahead, etc.), you must *by law*
travel the speed limit.  If you can not, you may not be on that road.
Some states have laws requiring a vehicle to pull off the road if more
than 5 cars are lined up behind it and it is not doing the speed
limit.  The state of Washington, on the Olympic peninsula which has
heavy truck (weight not necessarily numbers of trucks) traffic, has
posted signs asking truck drivers to pull to the shoulder if they can
not maintain the speed limit (on steep hills, for example)
	Owning a mountain bike, I can pull onto a very rough shoulder
even at (for me) high speeds without too much concern about destroying
my bike.  A slim-tired road bike rider does not have that option.
Thus he is breaking the law.  The same situation as the trainer
trapped behind the weaving family appears, except that the cyclist
plays the role of the weaving family and the car the trainer.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc