HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: SXMRP@orca.alaska.edu (Michael R. Platzke)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Byte: Is Unix Dead ?
Date: 21 Aug 92 20:52:35 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska Computer Network

In article <1992Aug21.154742.1730@cs.mcgill.ca> samurai@homer.cs.mcgill.ca (Darcy Brockbank) writes:
>From: samurai@homer.cs.mcgill.ca (Darcy Brockbank)
>Subject: Re: Byte: Is Unix Dead ?
>Date: 21 Aug 92 15:47:42 GMT

>In article <SXMRP.25.0@orca.alaska.edu> SXMRP@orca.alaska.edu (Michael R.  
>Platzke) writes:
>> In article <1992Aug20.155849.147103@zeus.calpoly.edu>  
>mneideng@thidwick.acs.calpoly.edu (Mark Neidengard) writes:
>> that uses a similar API and will be able to run Win16,Win32,OS/2 1.3, and
>> POSIX programs to some extent.  Secondly, NT may compete well in the
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
>Wait a sec... I thought that POSIX referred to a certain standard of
>GUI, so as to encourage portability. NeXT announced POSIX compilance,
>but that doesn't mean that NeXT apps will run on NT.

I'm not sure, but I believe that POSIX is a type of character based Unix
standard.  I'm almost positive it is not a GUI.  Any netters out there that
can give a definitive definition? I know that NeXT apps will not run on NT.

>I think instead that NT has some POSIX compliance built in, however
>it isn't correct to say that it runs POSIX apps.

I think that is what I said.  NT should be able to run fully POSIX compatible
programs, but POSIX compatibility is murky.

>You also forgot DOS apps in the app list. BTW, it's a good thing that
>Microsoft is giving us something that will run all of the crazy 
>OS-spawned apps that it has dreamed up. Win16, Win32, Win4.0, WinNT...
>sigh.

Yeah, I didn't mention DOS apps because it appears that if you are really
interested in DOS apps, you should run OS/2.  99% of the programs that I run
are Win 16.  With the intro of Win32s library, Win 3.1 users should be able
to run some Win 32 programs (how many is still unknown).  What is Win 4.0?
MS has never announced such a beast (to my knowledge, please send me more 
info). No such thing as a Win NT program (sort of like I don't think that
there is such thing as a Mach program).  I know, I know, this has nothing to
do c.s.next.advocacy, just trying to clear things up.

>- db

>--
>I don't want to have to worry about what my "memory model" is.

The Win32 API should get rid of memory model's

-Michael R. Platzke (sxmrp@orca.alaska.edu)
From: Conrad_Geiger@NeXT.com (International NeXT User Groups)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Washington, D.C. NeXT User Group (WaNUG) August Meeting
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:33:17 GMT
Reply-To: user_groups@next.com

August WaNUG (Washington, D.C. NeXT User Group) Meeting

  WHAT:  August WaNUG meeting
  WHERE: MITRE, 1820 Dolly Madison Blvd (Route 123), McLean, Virginia
  WHEN:  Wednesday, August 12th, at 7:00pm


The August Washington Area NeXT Users Group (WaNUG) meeting will be
at MITRE, 1820 Dolly Madison Blvd (Route 123), McLean, VA, on
Wednesday, August 12th, at 7:00pm. There is free parking, and directions
are below.

DPC will show us RightBrain's new page layout program, PasteUp.
According to Brett Balint, of DPC, it is a "full feature page layout
[application], designed to have all the power and sophistication of
industry standard page layout software while providing significant
breakthroughs in user interface, typographic control and pre-press".
About the presentation, Brett says, "we will be...going over samples
files, creating magazine style layouts and addressing the necessary
prepress issues."

In addition, DPC is offering a special coupon for those WaNUG members
good for a $XXX PasteUp bundle, consisting of:

 -  PasteUp
 -  Portfolio - Image Library scrolling palette for tiff and eps images.
 -  RightBrain Rulers - Rulers that float above any application.
 -  TypeView - Helps take advantage of all your fonts.
 -  Adobe Type Set #2 - Postscript fonts  Cooper Black, Copperplate
    Gothic, Franklin Gothic No.2 Roman, Juniper, Lithos Bold, Peignot Demi,
    and Present Script.

We hope to see you there!

Directions to Mitre:

	Mitre is in McLean, VA, near Tysons Corner.  From 495, take the
Dolly Madison Blvd. exit (Route 123) heading east.  It is two exits
south of the George Washington Parkway exit and two exits north of the
Route 66 intersection.  At the second light, make a left into the Mitre
parking lot.

--
If you want additional information or want to contact WaNUG, please call
the WaNUG President, Hugh O'Neill at(410) 224-3116.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: greg@afs.com (Gregory H. Anderson)
Subject: Re: software ports to NeXT (was Re: Attitudes: NeXT users and Sun users)
Reply-To: greg@afs.com
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 01:17:50 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.055404.471@appsoft.com> randy@appsoft.com (Randy  
Adams) writes:
> In article <1992Aug13.174553.399@prim> prim!dave@germany.eu.net (Dave  
> Griffiths) writes:
> > And is it just my imagination, or has there been a freeze on upgrades  
> 
> You are right.  The larger software companies are no longer investing 
> money in the NeXT platform.  The market hasn't materialized fast enough 
> for them and they are waiting to see what happens with NS 486.  
> 
> In the meantime, small companies are still investing.  Appsoft has 
> invested (spent) over $1,000,000 so far to develop a line of NeXT-only 
> products which we will be introducing later this year.  
> 
> The truly great products for NeXTSTEP will not be developed by BIG 
> companies but small ones like Lighthouse, RightBrain, Pages and Appsoft 
> who despite the odds, contrary to the wisdom of the Software Giants and 
> at great financial risk, continue to believe in the viability of this 
> platform.

Thanks, Randy, and don't forget about us. AFS has committed over $500,000  
to developing a line of accounting (get ready to throw away Quicken  
running inside SoftPC!), time billing, and project management software  
exclusively for NeXT. And that's on top of our bread and butter trading  
systems at First Chicago, Citicorp, and several other financial customers.  
We have 8 full-time NeXT programmers and lots of optimism for the  
platform.

Dave, how do you think Lotus got to be so big? By believing in the IBM PC  
when few others did. Same story for many others in the Mac world. Just  
cause we're not big doesn't mean we're not writing the NeXT Great  
Apps(tm). You can get lots of cool stuff done when you're not saddled by  
yesterday's baggage.

--
Gregory H. Anderson          | "We're very tolerant around here,
Benevolent Dictator-for-Life |  being only amateurs ourselves."
Anderson Financial Systems   | - Tortoise (Godel, Escher, Bach)
greg@afs.com  (Nextmail OK)  |
From: maynard@esther.msc.cornell.edu (Maynard J. Handley)
Subject: Re: NeXt vs Apple -- a couple comments (rtf)
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 04:14:16 GMT

In article <838@rtbrain.rightbrain.com>, glenn@rightbrain.com (Glenn Reid)
writes:
>Maynard J. Handley writes
>
>> Well I'm sorry, dude, but on seeing this you lose all credibility. $300
>for
>> 4 1MB SIMMs? Are you insane? You can get 4 1MB SIMMs mail order for
>around
>> $120.
>> Makes me inclined to regard the rest of your post as similar junk.
>
>All the prices were suggested retail prices, on both sides of the fence.
>Obviously street prices are going to be cheaper.

So what is your point? No-one but a moron pays list for anything these
days. What matters when I buy a system is the price I pay, not the price in
some suit's catalog. And what is this hint that street SIMMs (Chip Merchant
was sited) are inferior? Want to justify that? Will you be claiming next
that one should only buy Apple brand floppies? The point is that I can buy
street SIMMs at $26 per MB (saw that price yesterday for 80ns) and stick
them in my Mac with no problem. Claiming this somehow is unfair because it
no longer makes NeXTs looks so good is simply silly.

Maynard Handley
From: maurices@spock.dis.cccd.edu (Maurice Shihadi)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXt vs Apple -- a couple comments (rtf)
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:23:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: spock.BtAtz9.Asn
Organization: Coast Community College District, Costa Mesa, CA

I've been reading these posts and have concluded that all I want to see are
LIST prices when comparing products because list price is supposed be
a reflection of what a product is worth based on the oppinion of the 
original manufacturer.  Who cares about "best" price when one is supporting
an argument concerning "value" in the context of a comparison.  One can
always get a better price so the moment you deviate from a comparison based
on list you loose all continuity and void your whole argument to begin with.
Thats the way I see it and its never failed me in evaluating a company or a
product.  After all, you do get what you pay for don't you?   If you don't
then don't buy the product.  If you don't buy the product the list price will
go down and then you re-evaluate, etc.  Seems pretty common sense to me.

Its a bummer to think that some of us are paying $20+ a month for internet
access and get the privilege of monitoring such sillines and even more of 
a bummer when it gets responded to.


maurices
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Subject: Re: journalistic integrity
Reply-To: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Organization: Metrosoft
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 14:46:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.193545.26584@cs.yale.edu>  
nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette) writes:
> 
> I notice that ads are often located on pages near articles reviewing
> the product.  I wonder if other magazines do offer companies the
> opportunity to place such ads near the review pages.
> 
Some do but most don't. And the ones that do don't provide that much  
control over it. Advertisers pay premiums for certain locations (such as  
covers, opposite the table of contents page, etc.) but beyond that  
placement is uncertain. You can ask your ad rep to try to place it near  
the "front of the issue" (you may or may not get it) or place a string of  
ads on contiguous pages of course, but beyond that you usually have very  
little control.

Gordon
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Van Huizen           vox: 619.488.9411  fax: 619.488.3045
Metrosoft                   gvh@metrosoft.com [NeXTmail welcome]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: mmelling@Trirex.com(Michael Mellinger)
Subject: Re:  NeXT's, Amiga's, PC's, MAC'S, (was Re: Question #2 "Are Macintosh Users Really Happy?")
Organization: Trirex Systems Inc.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:00:06 GMT

In article <dillon.0l98@overload.Berkeley.CA.US>  
dillon@overload.Berkeley.CA.US (Matthew Dillon) writes:
> In article <7324@ayumi.stars.flab.fujitsu.co.jp>  
mikhe@flab.fujitsu.co.jp writes:
> >In article <dillon.0kwu@overload.Berkeley.CA.US>  
dillon@overload.Berkeley.CA.US
> 
>     Ok, maybe I overdid it a bit...  I don't use productivity mode on my
>     A3000, it's a waste.  The Amiga slows down with higher resolution
>     screen modes, but take a 4 color workbench verses a NeXT monochome  
and
>     the Ami beats it out by a factor of 4 easy.

The Amiga will be tied to the 680x0 series and backwards compatiblity with  
the blitter for quite some time.  NeXTstep will run on multiprocessing  
80586 PCs and 88110 machines RSN, and hopefully other platforms in the  
future.  NeXT is paying a small price now for an advantage later.

-Mike
From: dillon@overload.Berkeley.CA.US (Matthew Dillon)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re:  software ports to NeXT (was Re: Attitudes: NeXT users and Sun users)
Distribution: world
Date: 14 Aug 92 10:33:45 PST
Organization: Not an Organization

In article <1992Aug13.174553.399@prim> prim!dave@germany.eu.net (Dave Griffiths) writes:
>In article <BsvrIJ.DDI@monitor.com> shawn@monitor.com writes:
>>
>>Remember too that competition is the purest form of market cleansing.
>>When Virtuoso is released (RSN) it's going to clobber Adobe, and force
>>them to get their app up to par; Mesa has been released and upped the ante
>>for Wingz; PasteUp will force Frame's hand......
>>
>
>Are you serious? FrameMaker for the NeXT is only a tiny part of their
>overall market. If RightBrain were planning Mac and Windows ports (and who
>knows... :-) *then* it may make Frame think. Same argument goes for Wingz etc.

    It really doesn't matter how tiny a part a particular product plays in
    a company portfolio.  Are you advocating that the company will simply
    ignore the competition and throw away the product?

    No, I agree with the former analysis... competition works regardless of
    the size of the company you are going up against.  If they decide to
    ignore you then it's their loss.

>And is it just my imagination, or has there been a freeze on upgrades or new
>ports of the "big" applications to the NeXT? I have a feeling they're
>standing back to see if NeXT survive. Improv, WordPerfect, Wingz, FrameMaker
>etc were all ported to the NeXT quite a while ago. Since then, no upgrades and
>no other big ports to join them. (The only exception possibly being
>Illustrator, but then Adobe, through the DSP connection, have more interest
>than most).
>
>Sorry for the gloom. I'd love to be proved wrong.
>
>Dave Griffiths

    This is why, when I suggested NeXT pay for software ports, that I also
    suggested they secure source code rights for the NeXT platform (paying
    a royalty to the company).	This would allow the product to stay
    supported even if the big boys back out.

						-Matt

--

    Matthew Dillon	    dillon@Overload.Berkeley.CA.US
    891 Regal Rd.	    uunet.uu.net!overload!dillon
    Berkeley, Ca. 94708     ham: KC6LVW (no mail drop)
    USA

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: songer@lexmark.com (Christopher Songer)
Subject: Re: political propaganda in tag lines
Summary: So just what is this line of discussion doing in cnsa???
X-Disclaimer: These views are the poster's and not necessarily those of Lexmark
Organization: Lexington, KY
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:57:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.211433.18234@leland.Stanford.EDU> m@crito (M Carling) writes:
>
>That was the argument put forth by Herman Goering at the Nuernberg  
>tribunals in defense of the atrocities: 
>
...

Right you are! :) :) :)

-Chris
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Save your rights -- Shoot a Right to Lifer.| Speak for Lexmark? Never!
Save the World -- Shoot a Right to Lifer.  | They don't pay me enough for
Starve a Child -- Shoot an abortionist.	   |	that!


.
.
.
  

But seriously, people might consider toning down controversial 
.sigs that have nothing to do with the advocacy group they are 
posting to.

-Chris :) :) :)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
George Bush lead his country to war for   | Still speaking for himself...
$$$ and oil -- but he didn't cheat on     |    (read with humor)
his wife -- I'll vote for him.            |   
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: marcu@leland.Stanford.EDU (Marc Albert Ullman)
Subject: Re: NeXT won't let us upgrade cubes to turbos?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 08:08:19 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.012749.14854@leland.Stanford.EDU> m@crito.stanford.edu (M Carling) writes:
>In article <86468@netnews.upenn.edu> cjn@vaal.cpr.upenn.edu (Christopher  
>Nagel) writes:
>> NeXT's phone person said the following:
>> 
>> 4)  The OD cannot be configured as a boot device in NS3.0 (?!)
>> 
>> (Y'know, that #4 just don't seem right...)
>
>It's right. You can build 3.0 onto an OD and then boot from it. Of course,  
>you can't fit all the packages on, but you can fit most of them.

Could you clarify this statement.  Which part is correct?  The "it's right",
which implies you can't boot from an OD or the following sentence that
states that you can.  It would seem to me that the only issue is whether
you can still write a boot block out to the OD.  Also will NeXT make boot
ROM upgrades available so that one can boot directly from a CD.

>BANG had intended to provide a service to our members with OD-only cubes  
>whereby we would do the builddisk for them. Even though we would have  
>required that they provide the CD-ROM, and proof of purchase, in addition  
>to a blank OD, to demonstrate that we wouldn't have been complicitious in  
>software theft, NeXT's legal department wouldn't give us an ok. We are now  
>exploring other means by which to make upgrading easier for members who  
>can't afford to buy a CD-ROM drive.

Out of curiosity what aspect of the licensing agreement would this have
violated?  How is it different from making a backup copy or installing it
on one's hard disk?  In other words, what does NeXT's legal department
have to do with it unless you were planning on charging for the service.
How is this different from one doing it him or herself (e.g. produce a
bootable OD if one has a CD-ROM) if one has a system with both an OD and
a CD.

--Marc

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: Zacharias J. Beckman <zac@dolphin.com>
Subject: Advertisers Sought for New NeXT Magazine
Reply-To: zac@dolphin.com
Organization: Dolphin Software
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:49:29 GMT

BANGup Magazine (An Excellent NeXT Magazine) Seeks Advertisers

We are rapidly approaching the publication deadline for the October issue  
of BANGup Magazine, and we need advertisers!  If your company would be  
interested in advertising in the first issue of BANGup Magazine, please  
get in touch with us!

Send us you postal address, electronic mail address, voice and fax  
telephone numbers (if you don't have one of these, don't worry).  We are  
looking for ideas, articles, and authors who wish to contribute.  Include  
what it is you would like to do for the magazine, and we'll get in touch  
with you right away!

	Zacharias J. Beckman <zac@dolphin.com>
	Editor in Chief, BANGup Magazine
	900 High School Way, Number 2106
	Mountain View, CA 94041
	415.966.8919
-- 
 Zacharias J. Beckman - Dolphin Software - zac@dolphin.com (NeXTMail welcome!)
         900 High School Way - Suite 2106 - Mountain View - CA - 94041
 To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy... and dull
 fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful. -- R. A. Heinlen
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: NeXt vs Apple -- a couple comments (rtf)
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:17:38 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.041416.21709@msc.cornell.edu> maynard@esther.msc.cornell.edu (Maynard J. Handley) writes:

[Quotes more re the price of a ND Cube vs. Quadra...]
>
>So what is your point? No-one but a moron pays list for anything these
>days. What matters when I buy a system is the price I pay, not the price in
>some suit's catalog. And what is this hint that street SIMMs (Chip Merchant
>was sited) are inferior? Want to justify that? Will you be claiming next
>that one should only buy Apple brand floppies? The point is that I can buy
>street SIMMs at $26 per MB (saw that price yesterday for 80ns) and stick
>them in my Mac with no problem. Claiming this somehow is unfair because it
>no longer makes NeXTs looks so good is simply silly.

While I certainly don't want to defend either the ND system( too many broken
promises) nor the Quadra ( too expensive, poor OS, etc...) I do wish to 
point out that many people do not have the time nor the inclination to go
hunting for the best street price. For many, the time spent doing this 
is worth more than the system.

In short, a lot of people buy straight Apple products/NeXT products. I would
also point out that over the years I have had nothing but headaches mixing
and matching components from various vendors, especially on Mac's.
 
NeXT has a lot to make up for in its broken promises over the NeXT Dimension,
the MO, poor 17" colour monitor, etc...On the other hand Apple is a neat
system which leads you to canned solutions and eventually a brick wall ( I'm
referring to the Mac).
 
Philip McDunnough
philip@utstat.toronto.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: howard@netcom.com (Howard Berkey)
Subject: Re: NeXt vs Apple -- a couple comments (rtf)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 05:24:52 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <714522019snx@w3vh.UUCP> rolfe@w3vh.UUCP (Rolfe Tessem) writes:
>maurices@spock.dis.cccd.edu writes in article <BtAtz9.Asn@spock.dis.cccd.edu>:
>
>(Much NeXT-Mac debate deleted)
>
>> Its a bummer to think that some of us are paying $20+ a month for internet
>> access and get the privilege of monitoring such sillines and even more of 
>> a bummer when it gets responded to.
>
>Its a bummer to think that some of us are only paying $20 a month for
>internet access.  How did you arrange this deal of the century?
>

Netcom, in the bay area, is only $19 or so a month.

The big bummer is thet the orig. poster only pays for 'sillyness'.
I get a hell of a lot more than $20 worth of internet for my $19.00
netcom fee.

-Howard
From: jbatson@cayman.com (Jay Batson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Attitudes: NeXT users and Sun users
Date: 19 Aug 92 22:23:38 GMT
Reply-To: jbatson@cayman.com
Distribution: usa

In article <rcbaab.713611483@rw9.urc.tue.nl> rcbaab@rw9.urc.tue.nl (Annard  
Brouwer) writes:
> dillon@overload.Berkeley.CA.US (Matthew Dillon) writes:
> >    That's pretty close to my own opinion.  P.S. NeXT (this is a
> >    suggestion), it would be a good investment to PAY software companies to
> >    port their PC programs to the NeXT.  Much of the software is quite
> >    portable but the impetus to port is not their for many companies due to
> >    the much smaller market the NeXT represents.
> 
> No! NeXT if you're out there please don't listen... Look here, NeXTSTEP is
> quite elegant, but don't screw it up by "porting" programs from an inferior
> environment to our machine.
--
Actually, both of you miss the point.  If you really want software companies to
make things run on the NeXT, the motivation is simple - there has to be a huge
installed base of NeXT users.

The _best_ answer is for NeXT to re-think the pricing and release timing on
'486 NeXT.  From my point of view, they could own the high-end desktop market,
but they are currently on the wrong path.  The OS/UI has to be competitively
priced for _end_users_ with what Windows (NT?) will be, and has to be all but
free to the core software companies.  $1000 is too simply too high.  Just as
importantly, it has to be available to developers _now_ - NT is, and I can get
it "_real_cheap_" from Microsoft.  Finally, they need to tap the major PC
distribution and PC reseller channels to get some indirect sales leverage.
Certainly I'd prime the PC pump by installing a couple dozen free copies of  
'486 NeXT at each of the dozen biggest PC products distributors, and similarly
with a couple of couple hundred of the biggest Novell Resellers, they'd get the
well flowing.  Of course, for all I know they've already done this, and it
hasn't worked.

The other thing I would do is productize the Sparc version _NOW_, and ship it
for free to 1-2 people in each of about 500-to-1000 of the very visible Sparc
software houses and big Sun sites.  They'd hook everybody, and nuke Solaris.
Then we'd see just how "open" Sun really is.

But I guess maybe Steve just doesn't want to take on Scott head to head.
Personally, I'd do this in a minute.  But then again, I'm not Director of  
Product Marketing for NeXT.  (Of course, this problem can be solved.  My phone
number is shown below....  ;-)

Jay Batson
Director of Product Marketing
Cayman Systems, Inc.
Maker of award winning AppleTalk routers.
Soon to be more!
jbatson@cayman.com
(617) 494-1999
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy