From: cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: Plan B
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 23:15:10 GMT

In article <schuck.721338407@sfu.ca> Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes:
>Ok. Do I hate individuals in Quebec? Absolutely not.
>Do I hate the nationalists in Quebec for blackmailing Canada. Yes.

Nationalists in Quebec DO happen to be individuals that live in
Quebec.  They may make up a majority of Quebeckers.  You've answered
the question that I asked.

>>When you start talking about BC separating, that's not something
>>Quebec chose.  That's something YOU are choosing.  The separation of
>>BC would have surprisingly similar effects on Canada to the separation
>>of Quebec.
>
>>So, what's immoral for Quebec is perfectly acceptable for BC?
>
>The proper response for BC to Quebecs separation -- if Quebec MP's,
>PM , Senators, senior civil servants etc are not removed from office
>-- is to separate unilaterally and immediately. It would be stupid to
>stay.

You wouldn't even give them time to clear their desks first?
Employers are typically required to give their employees at least
two weeks notice.  You seem to be redefining "fair" in such a way
that there's no choice but for BC to separate.

Separation is a pretty unusual reason for firing, but I think
waiting a few days before BC would consider separating wouldn't be
likely to hurt guys badly.

And you still haven't explained why it's immoral for Quebec to
separate, and it's supposed to be OK for BC to separate.

>>If it is right for Canada to be ruthless towards a separatist Quebec,
>>then why should Canada NOT be ruthless towards a separatist BC?
>
>Since your argument is to be *not* ruthless, why threaten BC with
>ruthlessness? Why kill the messenger?

You've been arguing ruthlessness all along.  I'm just suggesting
that there ought to be consistent treatment to separatist provinces.
What's appropriate treatment for Quebec ought to be appropriate
treatment for BC.

If Canada is going to be ruthless to Quebec if they separate (your
position), then by the same token, Canada should be ruthless to
British Columbia if they separate.  Fair is fair.

BC is hardly a "messager," in this case.  If BC decided to
separate, that is your choice, and your action.

I would prefer to try to arrange both on more favorable terms,
personally.  Consistently favorable.

>>"They started it" isn't an acceptable answer, by the way.
>
>Yes it is. I wouldn't be talking about it if was not a possiblity and
>if they hadn't initiated it. It wouldn't even come up in converstion
>or thinking.

I think that the idea of Quebec separating is not too dissimilar to
the idea of jumping off a cliff.  I don't think it's a wise idea AT
ALL.  I don't think that those that propose separation have
carefully thought it through, because there are SO many pitfalls
involved.

If they do it, then (for their sake AND mine, as a Canadian) I hope
that it is a carefully thought out process.

There's the classic saying "If someone else decides that they're
going to jump off a cliff, is that a good reason for you to jump
too?"  It may appear a little facetious, but I think it applies
here.

I would think that in considering something like secession that you
would try to do better than be a mere "copycat."

I don't think that you ought to consider separating just because
of the situation in Quebec.  If you separate, it should be because
YOU WANT TO LEAVE CANADA.

If you separate, then the primary effect is that you leave Canada.
You should only do it if you actually WANT TO LEAVE.

>>If people let anger rule their decisions concerning "separation", they
>>WILL make irrational decisions, and big things (like pension funds)
>>will get trampled on and lost along the way.  Pension funds are merely
>>one example; I'm sure there's others.
>
>If you think British Columbians will *allow* Quebeckers to negotiate
>for us or rule us after a PQ government is elected with a *mandate*
>for secession, then you are being irrational.

Perhaps I'm ignorant about the way British Columbians think; I didn't
make it past Calgary visiting relatives this summer.  I'm supposed to
hit BC next year.

Perhaps British Columbians are thinking irrationally about this due
to hatred towards Quebec nationalists.  Perhaps not.  Perhaps you
speak for all British Columbians.  Perhaps not.

Perhaps other British Columbians would rather wait until Quebec
actually DECIDES to secede, rather than pulling a "knee-jerk"
reaction immediately after a PQ government gets elected.  The PQ may
start preparations for separation, and six months later find out
that it's something they CAN'T carry through on.  Wouldn't the
Independent State of BC look silly then?  Shades of my favorite
non-existent headlines: "Archduke Ferdinand Found Alive!  World War
I A Mistake!"

If British Columbians or anyone else lets anger/hatred determine
their decisions, then they are likely to make irrational decisions.
And people who make decisions based on hatred refuse to accept that
they are acting irrationally.  I've seen it happen far too many
times, and it hurts the one that hates at least as badly as the one
that is hated.

It would be a sad thing if British Columbia helped to break up the
country simply out of anger.  It would be sad if British Columbia
acted too quickly and unilaterally.  British Columbia would "throw
sand" as it were in the economic gears of the various regions of
Canada, doing unnecessary damage to everyone including themselves.

-- 
Christopher Browne                |     PGP 2.0 key available
cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca           |===================================
University of Ottawa              |  The Personal Computer:  Colt 45
Master of System Science Program  |  of the Information Frontier
Newsgroups: can.politics