HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lcoe@convex.com (Loren Coe)
Subject: headroom, what is 1.2db
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 13:53:15 GMT

i am looking at an amp which specs the output as 110w/ch with 1.2
db headroom.

how do you convert the 1.2db into watts?  is this the actual power
it can sustain?  i suspect no, just only for some short duration, but
what duration?


thanks,


loren


Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: lmiller@heineken.tuc.nrao.edu (Luther Miller)
Subject: Low Cost Pre-Amp?
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Tucson Az.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:10:16 GMT

I am looking for a decent pre-amp, but I am on a college budget... i.e.,
I would like to spend under $250, preferably around $150.

Does anyone have any good suggestions as a decent-quality pre-amp in this
price range? I will be using it with an Adcom 545-2 amplifier. I am interested
in both new and used pre-amps.

Please respond via e-mail, as I do not freqent this newsgroup. Thanks.

[Perhaps now would be a good time to recommend used pieces that one 
 could grow into, like the ARC SP-3 -tjk]

Luther Miller
lmiller@tuc.nrao.edu, lam@lems.brown.edu, st801455@brownvm.brown.edu
From: engelke@maximillion.mcc.com (Ned Engelke)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
Subject: KEF Status?
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:19:20 GMT
Organization: MCC, Austin, TX
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

Does anyone out there have any information about what is
going on with KEF?  I own a pair of 104/2's and wanted
to replace one of the grills.  My dealer here in Austin,
TX told me that they could not get in touch with KEF (!).
The scenario that they described had something to do with
KEF being bought out or moved or some other unspecified
mishap but I am skeptical...

Thanks in advance,

Ned Engelke
MCC
engelke@maximillion.mcc.com
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: HOWES <HOWES%DIALOG@mcimail.com>
Subject: NAD and Adcom CD Changers
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 13:53:37 GMT
          21 Aug 92 17: 42 GMT


  Just read a quick blurb about the new CD Changers from Adcom and NAD.
The NAD Model 505 $400
and the Adcom GCD-600 $600
Are these on the market yet?
Has anyone had a chance to listen to them?  What do you think?
thanks
mike
HOWES%DIALOG@MCIMAIL.COM

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: romeo@niagara.Tymnet.COM (Michael Stimac)
Subject: Re: Eminent Technology Model 8s
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: BT North America (Tymnet)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 13:19:13 GMT


In article <1992Aug12.212545.17920@tc.cornell.edu> eacj@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Julian Vrieslander) writes:
>In article <2272@tymix.Tymnet.COM> romeo@niagara.Tymnet.COM (Michael Stimac) writes:
>>You won't find a discount - Magnepan only sells to dealers
>>who agree not to discount their product.
>
>Is this legal?
>
Since I'm not a lawyer, I can't directly answer your question,
but many manufacturers in the high-end audio business "select"
their dealers carefully. The selection criteria may include
the ability of the dealer to provide after-sale service, the
ability and willingness of the dealer to provide a competent
auditioning facility, the technical competence level of the
dealers sales staff, and others. 

What I know (at least it used to be so) to be illegal is for
the manufacturer to *dictate* what price the dealer sells at.
In most cases the dealer is working more with a 'gentlemans'
aggreement; the dealer is not *trying* to sell at discount.

The manufacturer does have the power to decide to whom they
will sell their products. The classic case I'm familiar with
involved the Lionel Electric Train company years ago. Lionel
wanted to *tell* the retailers what price to set. Large
discount houses won a legal case (or used a previous case)
to continue selling at the price they chose. Lionel might
have decided not to sell trains to those discount houses
(legally) but the volume of sales was to great to cut off.
That is, Lionel would have been the loser if they cut off
the discounters.

Any one in the trade care to comment?

Michael Stimac


-- 
Michael Stimac
(415) 355-8889
romeo@tymnet.com
These opinions are not necessarily anyone's but my own.

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: Ross Ridge <ross@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Good sounding VCR
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: ZOOiD BBS
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:10:31 GMT

ken@trc.tellabs.com writes:
>I just bought a Sony 595 Hi-fi stereo VCR for about $430 (I think it lists
>for about $500).  Not only is it a great VCR, with impressive a/v
>performance, it has produced the finest sounding recordings of CD's that
>I've heard.  Sure there is a slight difference in air and soundstage from
>the source, but not as large as you may think.  Add to this the ready
>supply of cheap blank software (remember that the average VCR tape last 8
>hours) and the Sony's ability to add and remove indexes at any time to a
>prerecorded tape (not all Hi-fis do), and you begin to see why this machine
>could become your audio recorder of choice.  

Hi-Fi VCR's do make good audio recorders, but they do have a couple
of drawbacks.  One is that they make quite a bit noise, which can
be really distracting.  The other is the don't have terribly long lives,
the much greater speed that the heads pass over the tape wears thems
down much faster.  This probably doesn't make much of a difference
for moderate use, but under heavy use you may need to replace it
every few years.

>My only complaint is that there is no REC level adjustment...

A big problem, but unfortunately very common.  My old bottom of the line
Sony Hi-Fi Beta VCR had one, but nowadays it seems only the top of the
line VCR's have them. 

							Ross Ridge

-- 
Ross Ridge - The Great HTMU					     l/	 //
								    [OO][oo]
ross@zooid.guild.org						    /()\/()/
uunet.ca!zooid!ross						     db	 //

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: gt0213c@prism.gatech.edu (LENAKOS,JASON GEORGE)
Subject: Listening procedures
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Keywords: listening
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:16:17 GMT



In article 3560 (?) dg@mtqua.att.com (Duane Galensky) writes:

Duane> what would be the
Duane> purpose of taking along someone with better hearing to audition
Duane> the equipment that you intend to buy, other than to convince
Duane> you to buy something more expensive than you personally can
Duane> appreciate?  is this really a practical method, or am i
Duane> asking a brazenly "mid-fi" question?

The extra person can provide verification of certain objective subtleties of
a component/speaker/recording that you, the primary listener, may have heard.
These would not be differences in musicality, but rather concern matters
such as "Is that crosstalk I hear?"  "Was that thump the pianists' foot
slipping off the pedal or an error in the recoring/medium?" "Do you hear
that hum?"

While you may not hear the hum/crosstalk, etc, once you bring the item home
you may hear something worse.

I present the following example:(Although this is not exactly concerning audio
equipment, but rather hearing, I will prove it an analogy later)   
 
I recently went to an airshow in which included an F-15 demonstration.  At the
beginning of the demonstration, I thought I heard a small, low "pop". I 
guessed that there was a flameout, but was not sure if even had heard the
noise.  Shortly after, an announcement was made that the demonstration would 
be aborted due to technical difficulties.  After it landed I physically 
confirmed my suspicion.  Had this option not been available to me, the only
way of knowing what had happened would be to turn to my friend with me (as
I did anyway) and ask "did you hear that 'pop?'"

Similar to the airshow, an audio store celebrates an institution, in this case
music and it's reproduction.  Like the airshow, the presentation of this
celebration is geared towards greater technical acheivment and improved 
performance under greater loads. Well, error will always creep into what
we're doing, but is always less noticable as the industry advances.  This is
why it doesn't hurt to have a friend with you in the audio store.  


-- 
Jason Lenakos          		 |	"Nobody will fly for a thousand years!"	
Georgia Tech Aerospace		 |
gt0213c@prism.gatech.edu	 |	Wilbur Wright,1901, in a fit of despair	

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: psu@cs.duke.edu (Peter Su)
Subject: Re: what have we learned (was: Adcom bashers .. )
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Duke University CS Dept., Durham, NC
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:05:56 GMT


I got several replies, but Rich Shapiro makes the most general point:

   But the search for general principles in
   this domain, as in any aesthetic domain, is misguided from the start.
   This is exactly where objectivism goes wrong: objectivists are on a
   quixotic and essentially religious search for The Great Truth where
   there just isn't one. 

I'm not looking for the Great Truth.  I'm looking for little small
truths. I'm not asking that we have a true and complete model of every
physical aspect of an audio system from the mics to the speakers.
This is clearly an unrealistic and most likely impossible goal.

What should be possible, at least on the reproduction (as opposed to
the recording) end is that there should be some rules, be they hard or
soft, that can guide the ears through the swamp of possible details.
The discovery of these rules is the whole point behind empirical
science, is it not?

It seems to me that all details are not created equal.

I'm not looking for a canned algorithm that tells me for sure
what audio to buy...but there ought to be some heursitics that are
more sophisticated than brute force search.  

I mean, how to the high end designers go about 'improving' their
products? There must be something more than intuition and brute force,
or maybe they're just selling us a lot of bullshit.

Cheers,
Pete

--
Department of Computer Science, Duke University, Durham, NC 27706
Internet:	psu@cs.duke.edu
UUCP:		mcnc!duke!psu

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: tcheung@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Tak Cheung)
Subject: Dealings with the Cable Company
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:13:23 GMT


I would like to know fellow netters about dealings with the Cable Company.

Are they reliable, courteous, keep their promises, discounts, etc.

They started out originally to deal only in selling interconnects, speaker
cables and accessories, now they are branching out to sell hi-fi 
equipmenets.

I would like opinions and people who have dealt with the company.

Please post if you feel your opinion/comments are of interest to others
or email me back.

Tak Cheung
tcheung@gandalf.rutgers.edu



Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: redfreak@ecn.purdue.edu (Thomas Lobonc)
Subject: Removing LP warps
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:07:28 GMT

About a month back, someone posted a method for removing warps from LPs
using glass plates in the oven. Can anyone provide me with the details
of this? I lost the original post. I remember reading about this in an
Absolute Sound or Stereophile. Does anybody know what issue that was in?
Tom
From: P.Smee@bris.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
Subject: Re: Should I buy Nakamichi?
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:19:22 GMT
Reply-To: P.Smee@bris.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Organization: University of Bristol
          id <g.22778-0@ben.uknet.ac.uk>; Thu, 20 Aug 1992 12: 32:41 +0100
          id <29867-0@eros.uknet.ac.uk>; Thu, 20 Aug 1992 12: 32:23 +0100
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

In article <2330@tymix.Tymnet.COM> romeo@niagara.Tymnet.COM (Michael Stimac) writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug17.145459.18233@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> vvdag@alliant1.lerc.nasa.gov (Don Georgevich) writes:
>>I am contemplating the purchase of a Nakamichi preamp CA-5 and amplifier PA-5.
>>Both are used and in excellent condition with a very sweet price tag attached.
>> 
>>My only concern is that the preamp has no tone controls.  Will this be a problem for me?  Why did Nakamichi strip this preamp of its tone controls.  After all,
>>they sold it for almost $800 new.
>
>Thinking that the pre-amp has been "stripped" of its tone controls
>is not the 'high-end' way of thinking. You should think "the signal
>degrading tone control circuitry has been omitted". Leaving out 
>the tone controls is not a cost-cutting move, it is a deliberate
>quality decision.
>
>The preceding paragraph should be taken with 1/2 a :-)

Naw, cancel the :-).  The 'high-end' way of thinking is exactly as
described.  Their claim is that you should buy an amp whose sound has
the tonal balance YOU want already built into it, taken in the context
of your room and the rest of your equipment.  If you want a bit more
(or less) bass (or treble) the 'answer' is not to go twiddling the tone
controls, but rather to go out and find a set of equipment which
intrinsically HAS more (or less) bass (or treble).

-- 
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
 P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!uknet!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: hera!gfl@uunet.UU.NET (22402-lenahan)
Subject: Re: Snells, Thiels, Vandersteens
Summary: re; Vandys and Thiels
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:35:05 GMT
  (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for rec-audio-high-end@uunet.uu.net); Mon, 17 Aug 1992 09: 25:22 -0400

B
> preamp, Krell amp).  They were Extremely Impressive.  Very precise,
> accurate, etc. soundstage.  Plenty of clean bass.
> (...)
 
> I'd like to know how big a sound difference there is between the 2C, 2Ci,
> and 2Ce
>
I beleive that I already answered these exact questions to somebody
last week. So, breifly...

The Thiel 2.2s far surpass the 2s.  I heard one Thiel guy quip "Jim
thinks its OK now to have bass".  Much richer, less screechy.

Ditto 2.2s vs. 1.2s.

Vandersteen 2B = 2C = 2Ci roughly.  2Ce may be sonically different
due to xcabinet, etc. I dunno, not in the market. :-).

Grant
From: ADB103@psuvm.psu.edu, , 15 Aug 92 12: 35:11 EDT
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
Subject: Re: Power conditioners, Comparisons thereof...
Date: 17 Aug 92 13:03:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: psuvm.92228.115132ADB103
Distribution: rec.audio.high-end
Organization: Penn State University
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu


     You are absolutely right regarding the Power Wedge Power Line Conditioner
(PLC). I use 5 of them, each plugged into its own dedicated 20 amp circuit. In
this way I,ve separated my amplifiers, low level components, and my video surro
und system. The improvements in transparency, sondstaging and bass response are
 not subtle. I,ve also tried the Tice Power Blocks and found them to compress d
ynamic contrasts and add a slight haze to the sound, perhaps due to the fact th
at components plugged into the Tice gear must share from the same transformer.
The Power Wedge has separate transformers for each outlet.
     The Noisetrapper PLC's are also very good, roughly equal to the Power Wedg
e. Adcom, Tripplite (OUCH!), Counterpoint, MIT, Ensemble, and other PLC,s have
also been auditioned in my system. It,s curious to note that all of the units c
hanged the sound,  but you all know that different isn,t always better. The Adc
om is the cheapest and can be modified to sound better than the stock unit and
may be a good place for one to start if on a budget. The Tripplite actually deg
rades the sound and cannot be recommended. The Counterpoint is greatly improved
 by changing its power cord to a Tiffany, NBS, Discovery, or similar. Still, th
is unit does not remove power line grundge to the extent of other good PLC's. T
he MIT and Ensemble products can both be recommended but are not any better tha
n the Power Wedge, yet are more expensive.
     I,ve also heard good reports from audiophiles all over the country regardi
ng the absolute necessity of first installing dedicated 15 or 20 amp circuits,
complete with Hubbell hospital-grade outlets. Don,t skimp on parts; get them in
advance because your electrician (unless he's an audiophile) will have no clue
as to what you're talking about. This is roughly 50& of the solution and the PL
C accounting for the other 50% improvement.
     Spread the word guys (girls?) PLCs do work but be careful when shopping ar
ound for one of these babies. Safest bets are the Power Wedge or Noisetrapper.


 Scott E. Freeman
 President
 Wescott Audio
 800 669-7574
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: bellcore!broom.bae.bellcore.com!fvr@uunet.UU.NET (Frank Ricciardi)
Subject: Re: Need help for buying a $5000 system
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Bell Communications Research
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:06:32 GMT


	Jae Woo 

	Clearly if you are willing to spend $5000 on a system, you'll be able to
meet your needs listed below. 

	My advice to you is to go to your local hi-fi shop and listen to
different systems.  Bring some CD's that are representative of your listening 
preferences. 

	First listen to different loudspeakers. They will be the most important
purchase you will make. All loudspeakers are designed differently, and thus 
they can greatly affect the sound of the completed system. In choosing loud
speakers, ther is NO RIGHT AND WRONG choice, they have to sound good to YOU.

	Once you have chosen your speakers, select a power section that can 
"adequately" drive them. What I mean by adequately is this:

	As a general rule, your amp is at max power output with minimal 
distortion at around 1 o'clock on the volume dial. You mentioned that you do 
not crave loud volume from a system. However, a low powered amp must work
harder to produce your comfort level than does a high powered amp. Thus even at 
low volume levels, a high powered amp will give better (cleaner) sound.


	As far as a disc player, they really sound pretty much the same. Decide
if you want a changer or single disc, then choose one based on the features.


	There are various publications you can read that will inform you about 
different products and even teach you about some of the specs.  Finding a friend
or aquaintance who has purchased a system recently is also a good idea.



Frank R.

-- 
________________________________________________________________________________
"If you got to it and didn't do it, may you never get to it, and do it again"


Frank V. Ricciardi

fvr@bae.bellcore.com


Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: kucharsk@Solbourne.COM (William Kucharski)
Subject: Re: Counterpoint? Quality?
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc., Longmont, CO
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:09:20 GMT

While reading article <1992Aug10.174148.4252@osf.org>, I noticed that
rogers@osf.org (Andrew Rogers) said the following:
 >The amps didn't seem to sound appreciably different, but when I replaced the
 >Adcom pre-amp after listening to the Counterpoint, I thought I had
 >accidentally switched it into mono!  If I had a surplus $1K kicking around,
 >I'd buy the Counterpoint in an instant.

Can anyone recommend a nice solid state preamp that sounds about the same as
the Counterpoint?  I like what I've heard from the Counterpoint, but have a
big problem with tubed equipment, especially when the last few countries that
manufacture tubes seem to be disappearing off the map daily (I believe China
may be the last big tube manufacturer...)
-- 
| William Kucharski, Solbourne Computer, Inc.     | Opinions expressed above
| Internet: kucharsk@solbourne.com   Ham: N0OKQ   | are MINE alone, not those
| Snail Mail: 1900 Pike Road, Longmont, CO  80501 | of Solbourne Computer, Inc.
| President, "Just the Ten of Us" Fan Club        | "Dittos from Longmont, CO"

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: peterca@ento.csiro.au
Subject: Re: XLO vs. Cardas
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:09:41 GMT
	id AB07538; Wed, 12 Aug 92 08: 49:25 EST

Barry sohl writes:
>I'm just looking for a little input on these speaker cables.  My system is...
> ...I have already formed some impressions on
>both cables, but I'd love to here what others out there think.  So far I'd
>say the XLO is more controlled on the low-end, more nuetral across the
>mids, but rather un-exciting on the upper end.  While the Cardas seems a
>bit more detailed but also (probably consequently) not as nuetral. 

Have you considered biwiring?  My admittedly limited experience suggested
that there may be more to gain this way.  Just try two lengths of cheaper
cable vs one length of the more expensive.  Or, if one cable seems best
suited to the top or bottom use it for that application alone!
Peter Campbell
C/O Div. Entomology, C.S.I.R.O.
Box 1700 Canberra A.C.T. 2601
Australia  (peterca@ento.csiro.au)


Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: dg@mtqua.att.com (Duane Galensky)
Subject: Re: Need help for buying a $5000 system(rebuts)
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:44:20 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.151014.429@mcnc.org> kk@mcnc.org (Krzysztof A. Kozminski) writes:
>
>For a male hi-fi shopper, it is always advisable to bring wife or a
>sympathetic female friend along on a shopping trip.  She'll be able
>to hear all the details that the Y-chromosome masks out ...
>
>Kris "and-as-far-as-speaker-cables-are-concerned-Sears-Deluxe-Jumper-cable
>-in-3-ft-lengths-RULES" Kozminski
>-- 

a question for a novice, please bear with me:

relationship of hearing to genetalia aside, what would be the 
purpose of taking along someone with better hearing to audition 
the equipment that you intend to buy, other than to convince
you to buy something more expensive than you personally can
appreciate?  is this really a practical method, or am i
asking a brazenly "mid-fi" question?

i don't know about you all, but i sure can't hear as well
as i used to...unfortunately i don't expect to hear better
with time.

duane

PS - feeling good about ones self is an acknowledged and bona-fide
puchasing motivator, so i can understand why folks would want
to feel that they've got "the best."  but at what price?  is there
a value judgement that comes into play here...any sense of diminishing
returns?  please don't flame me...i'm sensitive  :-)

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: edmtl@alf.uib.no (Thor Legvold)
Subject: Experience with Reference Recording, Inc?
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Bergen, Norway
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 13:06:20 GMT


I recently received a CD from Reference Recordings, (California, I think),
after hearing one of their CD's a year ago in an Audio shop.  I was
wondering what other netters experiences were with them.  I hear a definate
difference compared with CD's from a few years ago, but some of the
newer CD's I have sound as good or better (f.eks TFF latest, Suk's Asrael on
Decca - this is from memory, forgive any dumb mistakes - Elton John The One, 
the last Dire Straits, etc).  Is this 'superior recording technology'
that Prof. Johnson has developed for real or Marketing PR?  As I said - 
the quality appears flawless _on my system_, but other newer CD's appear
equal sonically.

Regards,
Thor
Legvold@edb.uib.no

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end