From: mlemmerm@nl.oracle.com (Mick Lemmerman Publisher)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.netherlands
Subject: Re: confused
Date: 8 Sep 92 11:07:39 GMT
Reply-To: mlemmerm@oracle.nl (Mick Lemmerman Publisher)
Organization: Oracle Europe

Newsgroups: soc.culture.netherlands
Subject: Re: confused
Summary: 
Expires: 
Reply-To: mlemmerm@oracle.nl (Mick Lemmerman Publisher)
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: Oracle Europe
Keywords: 

In article <1992Aug29.101624.1@research.ptt.nl> mschenk@research.ptt.nl (Mike Schenk +31 70 33 23926) writes:
>In article <1992Aug28.084313.3508@sci.kun.nl>, bartjan@cs.kun.nl (Bart-Jan Bouwers) writes:
>> In <Btnt59.Fo@nntp-sc.Intel.COM> rrao@pima.intel.com (Ravi Rao) writes:
>> 
>>>In article <1992Aug27.171912.24650@lugb.latrobe.edu.au> HCHA8904593X@LUST2.LATROBE.EDU.AU (PERRETT, ANDREW) writes:
>>>>Can someone email me the difference between holland, the netherlands, se
>>>>weden etc ??
>> 
>>>	Holland is a province in The Netherlands, almost everybody makes the
>>>	mistake of calling The Netherlands as Holland...... 
>> 
>> You can see it that way but most of the time Holland = The Netherlands. To be
>> more specific, Zuid-Holland and Noord-Holland are two provinces of Holland :-)
>
>No that's not true. Most people use the terms in this way but the 
>correct use of the terms is The Netherlands for the entire 
>country and Holland for the two provinces. Not that it matters 
>because most Dutchmen and -women live in Holland ;-).
>
>    Mike

Calling "The Netherlands" simply "Holland" may not be technically correct,
but it is used widely by Dutch and non-Dutch alike. So, what's "correct"?
What the dictionaries and geography books say, or what most people accept?
If the Dutch football team is playing, all the orange car stickers, scarves, 
hats and T-shirts say "Hup Holland Hup", not "Hup Nederland Hup". Something
may be "op z'n Hollands", but "op z'n Nederlands"....I don't think so.

I can see why it bothers some people though. I'm English, and often I hear
people (even newsreaders) refer to, for example, a town in Scotland as
"typisch Engels" (probably this would annoy Scots more than English
people). My first reaction is that it's simply geographically incorrect, 
but then again, if most Dutch people see that whole island over there as 
"English", then the word just has a different meaning here.
 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.netherlands
Subject: Re: confused
Summary: 
Expires: 
Reply-To: mlemmerm@oracle.nl 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: Oracle Europe
Keywords: 

>>>>Can someone email me the difference between holland, the netherlands, se
>>>>weden etc ??
>> 
>>>	Holland is a province in The Netherlands, almost everybody makes the
>>>	mistake of calling The Netherlands as Holland...... 
>> 
>> You can see it that way but most of the time Holland = The Netherlands. To be
>> more specific, Zuid-Holland and Noord-Holland are two provinces of Holland :-)
>
>No that's not true. Most people use the terms in this way but the 
>correct use of the terms is The Netherlands for the entire 
>country and Holland for the two provinces. Not that it matters 
>because most Dutchmen and -women live in Holland ;-).
>
Calling "The Netherlands" simply "Holland" may not be technically correct,
but it is used widely by Dutch and non-Dutch alike. So, what's "correct"?
What the dictionaries and geography books say, or what most people accept?
If the Dutch football team is playing, all the orange car stickers, scarves, 
hats and T-shirts say "Hup Holland Hup", not "Hup Nederland Hup". Something
may be "op z'n Hollands", but "op z'n Nederlands"?....I don't think so.

I can see why it bothers some people though. I'm English, and often I hear
people (even newsreaders) refer to, for example, a town in Scotland as
"typisch Engels" (probably this would annoy Scots more than English
people). My first reaction is that it's simply geographically incorrect, 
but then again, if most Dutch people see that whole island over there as 
"English", then the word just has a different meaning here.

Another point is that "Nederland" more or less means "The Low Countries"
in English, and The Low Countries (to the English) includes Belgium. So,
if you want to be **really** accurate, you have to accept that Belgians
are Nederlanders too. :-)

			^
			|
			Look, that's a smiley, right? Don't flame me,
			I'm only kidding.
 
Mick
September 92
Holland/Nederland (take your pick).