HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mlandaue@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael C Landauer)
Subject: Re: Read Magic
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:39:22 GMT
Keywords: stupidity magic spells nwp

I agree with you.
I don't even bother to make Magic-Users use Read Magic.


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Cluelessness...   |  It's LOG...fun for  |  Mike Landauer              |
|  try it!           |  girls and boys!     |  mlandaue@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Class' power (was Re: how to imprison a psionicist)
Date: 18 Dec 92 03:18:42 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@unixd1.cis.pitt.edu

In article <1gr21hINNgqd@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> operbwt@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu writes:
>Yeah, but the Psionicist can do the following:
>	1.  Turn shadow form
>	2.  Disintegrate oponent until opponent dies

	Can he do both at once?
	Can he target opponent accurately?
	Are all opponents unable to attack psionically or in other wise reach
him in this shadow form?
	Do all psionicists have Shadow Form and Disintegrate? Odd, mine
doesn't...

>Or, the following:
>	1.  Turn shadow form
>	2.  Contact opponent
>	3.  Dominate opponent until success

	Can he do both at once?
	Are all opponents unable to defend and unable to attack?
	Do all psionicist HAVE Shadow Form and Dominate? Odd, mine doesn't...

>	1.  Turn shadow form
>	2.  Contact opponent
>	3.  Use invinsible foes until opponent surrenders

	See Above. 

>Basicly, the Psionicist is REAL tough!  All through the levels, psionicists  
>gain powers which are very helpful.


	You leave out an important word. CAN. Psis CAN gain such powers.
they are not GUARANTEED to get them, any more than a mage is GUARANTEED to
get Power Word Kill at 9th level.

>Examples:
>	1.  Psionicists can fly or teleport at level 1

	SOME psionicists can. Others have to walk like everyone else.


	Ditto to all your other examples. You seem to assume that the
psi will always have the best possible combinations available, while
not granting the same advantage to the other classes...


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Level limits
Keywords: four-way balance
Date: 19 Dec 92 05:57:35 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <918@blue.cis.pitt.edu> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:

>	Most magical items size themselves to fit anything within a
>reasonable range of sizes, unless the creator of the item intended 
>that no one else would wear it...

Bwahahahahaaaa!  So after killing the ogre, you let Rolf the Dwarf don the
magical armor that said ogre was wearing?  You're a very generous DM. :-)


-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | "I want you to remember, Clark... in all
Georgia Institute of Technology  |  the years to come, in your most private
Office of Information Technology |  moments...my hand at your throat.  I want
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |  you to remember the one man who beat you."
From: c188-cr@po.berkeley.edu (Chua Hak Lien)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Druid Shapechange
Date: 15 Dec 1992 08:29:23 GMT
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: po.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec14.231807.1@wharton.upenn.edu> millerl@wharton.upenn.edu writes:
[ Stuff about druid shapechanging into cobras and collecting poison deleted. ]
>Later, in a totally different campaign, the DM wouldn't allow this,
>since he thought it was somehow unnatural. Poisonous snakes are entirely
>natural animals, and people milk their venom sacs all the time, mostly
>to make antidotes, or so they claim. Why shouldn't it be possible?

Well, because it disrupts game balance. =) But you do have a very good
point. A quick fix would be for the DM to define special traits such
as these as mythic abilities, granted by other-worldly powers. One could
claim that poison is the blood of the Devil, for example, and only
vermin such as serpents could tap into his vein. Of course, nowadays,
we have perfectly scientific explanations for how and why a snake is
poisonous, but to people of the Dark Ages, such an ability could certainly
be considered to be supernatural in origin. So a druid would not
have special ablities like these, because these powers are a 'magical'
trait of the being, just like a breath weapon.

>+++++++++++++++++++++++23
>Loren Miller                           internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
>Mediocrity is a hand rail.                         -- Baron de Montesquieu


Chua
+==+
Common sense is not so common.
			- Voltaire
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: ddj+@cs.cmu.edu (Doug DeJulio)
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
Keywords: ectoplasmic form
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:33:59 GMT

In article <Bz633G.36M@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> griffin@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Zack Thompson) writes:
>>Force them to read something with the spell cast on it.  Tell them if they
>>don't submit to the spell then they will be killed.  The spell puts them
>>into a suspended animation, which can be canceled with a simple dispel magic.
>
>Couldn't a quick-thinking psion fake this?  Read the sigil, then try
>  to make his save.  If he did, then he could just copy the actions 
>  of his compatriots, then get out later.

Doesn't the spell surround folks with an amber field of force?  That'd
be tough to fake.  Maybe I'm remembering wrong though.
-- 
Doug
From: brunborg@alkymi.unit.no (]dne Brunborg)
Subject: Re: PC vs. Player INT
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 04:03:33 GMT

The point I tink some of you is missing (IMHO, anyway) is that the INT-score is
the character's POTENTIAL, and if he fails to live up to that, too bad. 

Besides, what is the INT-score? The character's ability to read fast? To solve
problems? To play chess? INT can be many things, most often a combination. 

That's how I try to play it, anyhow.



 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 +                            +                                               +
 + ++brunborg@alkymi.unit.no+ +  "Yeah, alright! I've got something to say:   +
 +                            +   It's better to burn out, than fade away!"   +
 + ++brunborg@solan.unit.no++ +                                               +
 +                            + (Def Leppard: "Rock of Ages", Pyromania 1983) +
 +     - Aadne Brunborg -     +                                               +
 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: Jesse.Taylor@launchpad.unc.edu (Jesse Taylor)
Subject: Re: Play by E-mail
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:27:54 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.054016.24656@Princeton.EDU> dagolden@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Alexandre Golden) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.000950.44848@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> tat2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (TODD ALEXANDER TERWILLIGER) writes:
>>In article <ByzDur.IE3@NeoSoft.com>, mickey@NeoSoft.com (Myloe Wilson) writes:
>>>I am interested in findinf someon whi is running a play by email game.
>>>Please let me know.
>>            I had never thought of that. If any such campains are running, I
>>am also interested. Plese post a list of ones with openings or email them to
>>me, thanx.
>
>Actually, I don't have time to play by e-mail (at least not now), but I'm
>curious to see how well it works.  Are there provisions for observing a
>PBEM game? 
	There should be. It's not that hard to stick another address on
the ol' user alias list...

>-- 
>David A. Golden '95           (dagolden@phoenix.princeton.edu)
>Princeton University

JT

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: PC vs. Player INT
Date: 16 Dec 92 18:56:02 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@unixd3.cis.pitt.edu

In article <8045@news.duke.edu> dks@acpub.duke.edu writes:
>cbnorman@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Bruce Norman) writes:
>|> 16-17-18 intelligence? We're talking the top 5% of the population here
>|> (if we assume 3d6 for intelligence--by AD&D1's claim that int=IQ/10
>|> we're talking the top 1% of the population).  Believe me, I know it,
>|> most gamers do not fall in this range.  Most gamers are NORMAL PEOPLE.  

	Obviously we have encountered disparate samples. I've never encountered
a gamer -- by this I mean someone capable of playing more than hack,slay,etc. -
whose IQ would be less than average; ergo, the vast majority of them are
'way above average. Most gamers I've encountered have IQ's in the 130-140
range, or else have abilities which I evaluate as equating to a higher
intelligence (creativity is something I consider a manifestation of
intelligence, although neither IQ nor other standardized tests like SATs
measure it; therefore a highly creative person is above average in intellect
from MY point of view).

>	Agreed -- a few weeks (months?) ago, someone posted an idea that
>normal folks (non-adventurers) don't usually get 3d6 for their 'stats';
>an 18 in any ability is much rarer than ~.5% of the population. The bell
>curve for IQ is much steeper than that for a 3d6 distribution.  An '18
>intelligence' has not occurred more than a couple of hundred times through-
>out history, I think.

	Well, that's one way to look at it. It's not the way I look at it.
Since (at least in the beginning) there was no difference in the methods used 
for creating NPCs and PCs, it seemed pretty obvious that they were on
the same scale, and thus on the same frequency chart. That's how I do it.
Thus in my cosmos, an 18 is equivalent to 1 out of 216 people. 

					Sea Wasp
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: scythe@stein.u.washington.edu (The Grim Reaper)
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
Keywords: ectoplasmic form
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:48:28 GMT

In article <Bz9u9A.n4E@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> griffin@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Zack Thompson) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.195419.23643@ncsu.edu> cobra@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Brian Dunphy) writes:
>>In article <1gia2fINNco0@life.ai.mit.edu> adair@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jonathan Edward Adair) writes:
>>>The point is, what can a psionicist pass himself/herself off as,
>>>other than a mage?  A (wink-wink) armorless fighter?  At best,
>>
>>But the psi-guy still was terrible).  What can
>>a psi-guy hide as?  Why is he hdiing, anyway?
>>
>>briand.
>
>
>Howdy-
>
>ZT here.
>
>I dunno why he's trying to hide.  Beat-nik never did.  Of course,
>  it's pretty hard to hide the fact that you're special when your
>  short sword (+2, I got lucky) leaps out of your hand and goes
>  hunting down the bad guys.  Telekinesis is great.  And since it
>  only weighed 3 pounds, there was only a -1 modifier to hit cause
>  of weight, and it only cost 1 PSP per turn to use.
>
>Just for my Record.
>
>                        The Crystal Griffin

Hmm.  Actually, items of 3 pounds or less don't have a modifier
to their THAC0, says the sage advice guy...

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: sh30443@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Shiva the Destoyer)
Subject: Re: Small query on multiple mages in a party...
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:20:28 GMT

     The way that my DM plays it (and I agree) is that one mage can teach
another mage the spells he already knows.  So say the first mage has in his
books magic missile, sleep, and charm person, and knows the first two but
not the third spell.  He can only teach the second mage magic missile and
sleep.  If the first mage wants to, he can lend his spellbook to the second
mage for him to study and try to learn charm person.

     While there is nothing in the rules about swapping spells, there is
another consideration that relate to it.  Do you want the mage characters
in your campaign to have duplicate spellbooks?  It make each of them more 
powerful, but also boring.  If the two characters find a spellbook then they
can share the spells, but I would suggest trading only common spells, leaving
the more rare ones to each own mage.  

						Jen -> Apollyona -> 
						cleric/mage of Mystra.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: ddj+@cs.cmu.edu (Doug DeJulio)
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 16:59:00 GMT

In article <970@blue.cis.pitt.edu> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
> The thing that makes a world really work is depth and consistency of
> EVERYTHING -- characters, civilizations, and mechanics and the
> rationale behind them.

You're asking for something that's impossible.  You want to model an
entire universe down to the explanations for the physics, and still
have time to play?  That's an absurd notion.

So, one must figure out which details are important to *their* game,
and add depth to those.  An example.  The AD&D combat system is very
unrealistic, it doesn't even pretend to be realistic.  Hit points are
a crock.  Does this matter?  Would adding a combat system that was
more realistic add to the enjoyment of the game?  I don't think so,
and I don't think most of my players think so either.  So, we just
accept the combat system as it is.

Yes, there is a reason that a mage can't wear armor.  The way I handle
the explanation is to say that the player's character knows what the
reason is, even if the *player* doesn't.  Earlier you gave the example
that ruling that a helmet stops psionics without explaining why is not
acceptable because for example your mage might want to research an
anti-psionic spell based on the principle.  I don't see why that means
the *player* must know the principle!  Just say that there is some
mechanism of action, and with sufficient research the mage can figure
it out, and can produce a spell that works.  Do you require that
someone playing a character who can speak elvish must know another
language in real life in order to have an intuitive grasp of the
concept that the vocabulary might be different?
-- 
Doug DeJulio
ddj+@cmu.edu
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: how to imprison a psionicist ?
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:45:06 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@unixd2.cis.pitt.edu

In article <78347@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge A. Diaz) writes:
>Put a helm on him with a locking strap.  He can't break the strap or pick
>the lock.  So he can't remove the helm.  It's that simple.  If you're
>afraid he might break the lock, keep him shackled to a wall, or bound,
>or whatever.  A 1gp helm is all you need.

>So what's this about parasites in glass jars, and cutting off forearms,
>and prisons on other planes? :-)

	Maybe because most people looked at the rule that says "helms
shut off psis" and realized how ridiculous that rule is, and jettisoned
the rule. 

	When I encounter a rule that's obviously there for no reason other
than to promote that semi-mythical beast Game Balance, I throw it out
right away. If I'm going to imprison a psionicist, it will be using a
logical method that works according to the operating physics and paraphysics
of psi, tech, and magic. That helmet rule can't be justified well at all;
and any justifications for it have logical ramifications which are 
never considered. For example, if ANY helm can do this, then surrounding
the psi with the same material as any helm should shut off his powers;
put him in a leather tent and he's powerless. "No", you say, "it only
works because it's on his head." Oh? So, if the helm is magically 
levitated off his head by a thousandth of a micron, he can use his powers?
Cool, I'll have my psi train with his TK until he can keep the helm
JUST off his head...  Oh, that's too close? How far away does it have to
be? How MUCH of the head has to be covered? Can I wear a helm made of
bands of leather and steel that are like crosshatching, with open
spaces?

	That's why I get rid of such rules...


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: ernar@dit.upm.es (Jorge F. Delgado Mendoza)
Subject: Re: A question on aging.
Organization: UUES, Asociacion de Usuarios de UNIX, Spain
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:18:31 GMT

Well, to add my bit to this long chat, i usually don't play level limits
(well i use limits around 18, but then a mage could wish himself or
could wish another of the party not to have level limits, and they are gone
but of course i dont tell this to my playes :) and let human multiclasses
so as u see i make my own game out of T$R's. The fact is that i dont set
such limits on whishes. Any reasonable wish will be cast, although with
the exhaustion penalty, and any greedy or umbalancing one will be

thwarted :). Also, each race has its advantages (If you try to zap
a mental attack to a dwarf i will start laughing just now...+4 msave if
he is cleric and a +5 if he has con18 ) and its disadvantages. I usually
play ADD with Tolkien elves  (1.90 cms ) and they are inmortal. They can
be killed, but they do not age. I dont see this particuklarly umbalancing
There are spells with which you can make game much more umbalancing
(At least in 1st ed ADD) wasnt the Geas spell for mages with range
and not saving throw?? --> if so there goes you worst enemy with his +5
holy sword in a questto avoid you killed till you reach your tower :)
(where you have enough items and henchmen to blast him :)

Just my bit



--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| ernar@sanson.dit.upm.es |   And they placed in his hands a sword made from  |
| Jorge Fernando Delgado. |  cold vengeance, forged in Brimstone and templed  |
| Madrid Telecom, Spain.  |  with the woeful tears of the other damned......  |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: jdelisle@udel.edu (J. G. Delisle)
Subject: Re: Whatever happened to the Great Net Spellbook?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Boyz from the Dwarf
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:19:00 GMT

In article <17DEC92.13387310.0063@lafibm.lafayette.edu>, HC61@lafibm.lafayette.edu (HC61) writes...
>I remember seeing a text copy of something called the
>great net spellbook. Anyone ever heard of it? Anyone
>know where to contribute to it?

	If memory serves, there should be a new copy of it coming out sometime
this month. Try checking rec.games.frp.dnd.archives periodically for it, or
go FTPing at sandman.cco.caltech.edu or greyhawk.stanford.edu.

	Joe Delisle

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| From the terminal of Joe Delisle      |                                    |
| jdelisle@loyola.edu  (preferred)      |    "Home is where the hell is."    |
| jdelisle@cs.loyola.edu                |                                    |
|              "I was up above it, but now I'm down in it"                   |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: jwolf@nyx.cs.du.edu (The WolF)
Subject: Re: invisibility
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 01:56:48 GMT

<1992Dec14.201529.17361@sarah.albany.edu> gm1116@albnyvms.bitnet writes:
>Ok, I'm new but this is a humorous bit I thought I'd add.
>(fun story from a con way back when)

>Final round of the tourney, group is invading the evil temple
>mage casts invisibility on everyone.  Thief with VERY low ints response:
>"My feet!  My feet are gone!  How am I going to walk with no feet!"

GREAT responce!  But ... How could he talk with no mouth?  :)

>Now, tell me, if your the DM are you going to say(while everyone else
>is laughing and having a good time) that he CAN see his feet?
>-Badger

Hey, he OBVIOUSLY didn't disbeleive, thus, he cannot see his feets!
If you don't KNOW its an illusion, you cannot see through it.  Witness
some of the US's more recent presidents.  :|

Jon WolF - Je vais reussir a mes examens!
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Druid Shapechange
From: <MVS104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 19:31:18 EST
Organization: Penn State University

To throw in yet another point of view on the subject, here's how we run
shapechange. We get to think about it quite a bit since druids are
popular. Anyway, the druid's equip merges with him, so he doesn't lose
it, but neither can he use it. It's also instantaneous, so you don't
have to wait around or anything; it just happens. As far as abilities
in animal form go, he gets them naturally, so he has no penalty using
an animal's attack form. We haven't worried much about size limitation,
since most people prefer to stay about medium size if they can help it
(weapons doing higher damage to the huge targets and all).

Martin Schulte
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: cbnorman@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Bruce Norman)
Subject: Re: PC vs. Player INT
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:19:50 GMT

One way to handle PC int/wis vs player int/wis is to change the definition
of what int and wis means.  For example.

Intelligence: Represents the PCs ability to memorize and learn facts.  To gain
knowledge.

Wisdom: Represents the will-power of a PC.  The ability to resist mental 
domination and to keep his mind clear and focussed at all times.

By making this minor change in definition (which really should includ renaming
intelligence as learn and wisdom as will) you can now have very "well learned"
characters with a high "willpower" who none the less are short-sighted
bone-heads (much like your players :)  The spell bonuses for clerics of high
wisdom can still be justified, as can the bonus non-weapon profs for high
intelligence (second edition rules).

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: dks@acpub.duke.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: PC vs. Player INT
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:52:00 GMT
Reply-To: dks@acpub.duke.edu


cbnorman@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Bruce Norman) writes:
 
|> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
|> >	In fact, since I use the bell curve to represent INT, most gamers
|> >start at 16, average 17-18, and go on from there...

|> 16-17-18 intelligence? We're talking the top 5% of the population here
|> (if we assume 3d6 for intelligence--by AD&D1's claim that int=IQ/10
|> we're talking the top 1% of the population).  Believe me, I know it,
|> most gamers do not fall in this range.  Most gamers are NORMAL PEOPLE.  

	Agreed -- a few weeks (months?) ago, someone posted an idea that
normal folks (non-adventurers) don't usually get 3d6 for their 'stats';
an 18 in any ability is much rarer than ~.5% of the population. The bell
curve for IQ is much steeper than that for a 3d6 distribution.  An '18
intelligence' has not occurred more than a couple of hundred times through-
out history, I think.
						-Abdiel