From: osstlm@eua.ericsson.se (Tomas Lundstrom)
Subject: Re: Alcoholism in Scandinavia.....
Reply-To: osstlm@eua.ericsson.se
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:10:09 GMT

In article 1eailsINNjlq@corax.udac.uu.se, dan@astro.uu.se (Dan Kiselman) writes:
> In article <1992Nov16.174012.28632@eua.ericsson.se>, euafri@eua.ericsson.se (Fre
> drik Vstman) writes:
> |> Dan Kiselman writes:
> |>
> |> > Personally, I wouldn't mind if alcohol (ethanol) was banned and disappeared
> |> > altogether for drinking, being "culture" or not. But since I am considering
> |> > myself a democrat, it shouldn't be done if not some majority would accept i
> t
> |>
> |> In a true democracy, you shouldn't ban it even if a vast majority
> |> accepts it. There are such things as human rights and protection of
> |> individuals (often referred to as minorities).
> |>
> 
> The problem, of course, is how to decide what these rights are. I'm afraid that
> this will always be decided by some majority (which could be majority by
> numbers or majority by force or something else). If you try to protect
> the rights of some individuals you will inevitably infringe those of others.
> 
> Ban the selling of alcohol to alcoholics and you have infringed
> on the vendors "right" to make their business. Allow it, and the liquor vendors
> will take advantage of the weakness of the alcoholics and destroy their
> "right" to a decent life (or life at all) (against
> the will of the alcoholics in most cases, N.B.)
> 
I agree with Dan.

However, 
there is one thing I'm missing in this debate, the *costs* involved. The costs
directly or indirectly caused by alcohol consumption are *huge* in Sweden, and
still they are among the lowest in Europe ! (I think I remember a book last
year called "Supen kostar 200 miljarder"  "the Booze costs $40 000 000 000". A year !
I think that the costs (health care etc.) are a good measure of the consumption
of alcohol, better than the amount of bottles sold (and the supposed amount of
"moonshining"). (So, consumption in Sweden is probably relatively low)

So, if a majority in society wants restrictions, simply because that they don't
want to pay the price, I don't see the absolute evil in that.
Maybe it's everybody's "right" to manufacture and consume as much drugs as
he wants, but im not sure it's his "right" to have society pay his own hospital
bills, his drunk driving victims' hospital bills and funeral costs, as well as
his and others' companies costs because somebody didn't turn up on work a
monday morning, for three weeks, or never ...

People are quick at screaming about their rights, but there is the other side
of the coin: responsibility. In a fully capitalist society, where you pay for
everything with your private insurance, I think it'd bee *very* wise to join
a "tee-totaller" Insurance company ...

While we are at it; I think the picture of the screaming Swedish drunkard,
unable to control himself, in contrast to the cultivated "beer-country" person
is a myth. Haa anybody ever been abroad and seen drunk Englishmen or Germans ?

I've heard many Swedes say "Swedes get so drunk when they go abroad,
I'm really ashamed for us ... we are the worst tourists ... we can't
handle the booze, we have no drinking culture ... sob, sob"

Well, the thing is, I've heard exactly the same from *many* Englishmen and
Germans too !!  Everybody think they are the worst !
So maybe we are not worse than others after all ?

Tomas




Tomas Lundstrom
Objective Systems SF AB
box 1128
S-164 22 Kista
SWEDEN

email: tomas@os.se
phone: +46 8 703 45 92
fax: +46 8 750 80 56

DISCLAIMER: Ellemtel Utvecklings AB, where I work as a consultant
	    right now, has nothing to do with this posting, I'm
	    just posting from their site.

DISCLAIMER: The stated opinions are my own. If a posting reflects
	    the official policy of my company, Objective Systems SF AB,
	    this is explicitly stated.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic