From: lafave@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov (Dr. Norman J. LaFave)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: SC rally: "We don't want a draft dodger for president!"
Date: 15 Sep 1992 20:19:04 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co.

In article <9137@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM>, mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson) writes:
> 
> In <1992Sep15.150151.24216@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> lafave@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov (Dr. Norman J. LaFave) writes:
> 
> DOC:Have you actually READ this thread Mark? I never said that everyone in small
> DOC:towns was like this, just most of them. Since I grew up in one of these
> DOC:towns and I am not like that, I guess I know this now don't I.
> 
> Yes I have read the entire thread and that is why I made the charge that I did.
> You never said that all residents of small towns are bigots and rednecks, but
> you have implied that all small towns are like the one you grew up in.

I did not!!!! However, so many of them ARE like the town I grew up with that
I stand by my statements.

> 
> DOC:The reason
> DOC:I won't apologize to people who have redneck attitudes is:
> DOC:1.) Much of
> DOC:their bigotry is offensive and hateful to other groups,
> 
> You started this thread by implying that everyone (or at least everyone from
> small towns in the south) who opposed Clinton was a redneck.

I did not!!! What I said is that most of these people, some of which were
actually interviewed on TV, were convinced that this "draft-dodging"
smokescreen was a real issue because it plays off their in-bred biases. I regret
the use of the terms redneck and ignorant, but the point does not require that
statement for validity.

>  You exended the
> stereotype of redneck to include beer-swilling and ignorant.

Again, I regret the stereotyping. The point still remains valid.

> You then flat
> out stated that rednecks are all racists.

No I said SOME were racist. Do you have evidence that I am wrong?

> Your bigotry is offensive and hateful.

Fine. I don't expect to convince you or Al of anything anyway, nor do I care
what you think of me. You don't know me.

> 
> It might also help if we could come up with a working definition of redneck.
> I think our definitions are probably divergent.

It's not worth my time to continue this and I have decided to go back to
debating the REAL issues.

> 
> DOC:2.) They base most of
> DOC:their warped prejudice on strict stereotypes, and
> 
> Talk about basing actions on stereotypes, you have done nothing but set up
> stereotypes for this whole thread.

The words "some of" or "most of" occur in most of my statements. If you have
definitive evidence that my contention about irresponsible voting is
falacious, I'd like to here it.

> 
> DOC:3.) Their irresponsible voting is
> DOC:hurting alot of people (including themselves) and they should be taken
> DOC:to task for it.
> 
> It is still an open question about which policies have been most damaging
> to this country.  You have been implying that through carefull study and
> research you have stumbled onto the wisdom that will save this country.
> You have implied that if only the rest of us were smart enough or
> dedicated enough we would also come to the same conclusions you have.

WRONGO. I have said in recent postings that if people studied the issues and
disagreed with me, I could respect that. Are you saying that NOT knowing the
issues or the candidate's proposals when voting is a GOOD thing?

> 
> I find that offensive as well.  I to have done a lot of research to reach
> the conclusions that I have reached.  And even though neither of us has
> openly stated what our beliefs are, I feel safe to say that I doubt you
> and I would agree on much, if anything.

I certainly hope not. :-)

> 
> 
> DOC:There is a relative of mine who won't watch basketball or
> DOC:football anymore because "There are too many **** playing these days".
> DOC:According to him **** are all lazy and we were better off before equal
> DOC:rights. Most of the people I grew up with agree with him. Now do you
> DOC:understand why I will not apologize Mark?
> 
> I now understand.  Your hatred for those you grew up with has caused you
> to become as bigoted and close minded as those you rant against.

Wrong again mon frere. You don't know me well enough to come to this
conclusion. If you did know me you would probably be embarassed (sp).

> Now do you understand why I have been urging you to seek professional 
> help before you do something to hurt yourself.

I suggest to you a good etiquette class.

> 
> Peace.

No evidence of "peace" so far.

> 
> -- 
> --Mark
> My opinions are mine, all mine.  Unless someone else claims them first.
> 
> 

Norman

Dr. Norman J. LaFave