From: usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns)
Subject: Re: Poor Shannon
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:41:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.015535.3263@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  
mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha) writes:
> In article <1992Oct14.234232.5002@news.acns.nwu.edu> usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu  
(Usenet on news.acns) writes:
> >In article <1992Oct14.223323.16998@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>  
c9c-ed@po.berkeley.edu  
> >( ) writes:
> >> Dear all,
> >> [section deleted]
> >> And if you are one of the perspective benefitees, do you dare say you will
> >> truly be 'persecuted' if you went back, while most of you probably never
> >> laid a finger on the 6/4 movement?  Isn't this what is called the  
repugnant
> >> "jian4-fen1-shi3-duo4"?  But then, of course, we are not saints.  I  
probably
> >> would do the same thing, if i were in the shoes.
> >
> >
> >I am not a beneficiary. But I want to point out that unless you keep your  
mouth  
> >shut, live like a cold-blooded turtle and forget about politics and the  
future  
> >of your country, you would sooner or later be procecuted or at least feel  
being  
> >prosecuted. So, as many people pointed out, it depends on how you interpret  
> >"living" in China. There are some people who fall into non-reversible coma.  
> >They still "live" in this world. Do you call it "living"?
> >
> >Carl
> 
> I agree with what you say Carl, but the situation is no different than 
> before these people came to the States, and it's still the same for 
> everybody else in China. That's just the way China is. And if someone is
> really interested in seeing democracy come to China, they're gonna have 
> to go there and help change things. OK, most people don't want to sacrifice
> their lives, and that's perfectly understandable. There's nothing wrong
> with wanting a green card.
> 
> The problem is this: the people arguing for the bill are saying, "I am
> so commited to seeing democracy in China that if I went back, I just
> couldn't keep from fighting for it, and I'd be persecuted." But these
> same people, once they get their green cards, I predict, will no longer 
> be so dedicated to democracy in China. It may a hobby or a wish, but no 
> longer this unsurpressable urge. *If* my prediction is right, don't you
> see a real contradiction there?
> 
> Mark
> 


Mark, first I'd like to tell you that there are verious kinds of CSS here. 

The first kind of CSS are those who had already lost any hope on CCP way before  
6.4 incident. So, even before 6.4, they had already felt insecure if they were  
forced to go back. But, since many of them held J-1 visa, they were supposed to  
go back to a country where they feared they might be prosecuted. They have 2  
choices. Choice one was to seek political asylum, which was not a good way  
because their relatives in China might be prosecuted. Choice two was to go back  
and live like cold-blooded turtles for several years and wait for another  
chance to come out again holding visa other than J-1.

The second kind of CSS are those who did had a little hope on CCP before 6.4  
and then totally lost the hope after 6.4. Before 6.4, they thought of going  
back to China and trying to change Chinese society and political system under  
the leadership of CCP. 6.4 broke their dreams into pieces. Now they are as same  
as the first kind of CSS who would not go back in the near future. 

For those CSS mentioned above, they feel insecure and various incidents had  
already proved that they are going to be prosecuted if they continue living a  
life like they are now. So, they are not lying to the US public. They just  
speak out what they think and fear. 

The third kind of people are those who come here for better lives. They care  
less about the democracy and freedom in China. Some (if not many) are  
opportunists. However, these people usually just sit there and wait to be  
beneficiaries. Very few of them lobby hard and speak out. So, accusing them of  
lying and selling their own country is unfair. I don't think it is wrong to be  
beneficiary by doing nothing.

Therefore, as you see, Shannon's accusation is totally outrageous.

Now, let's talk about the forth kind of CSS. People like Shi Chunde (probably  
including Shannon Yeh). People like Shi did pursue freedom and democracy in  
China. They had high hope on the US when they were in China. However, after  
they came out, they found that there are serious social problems in the US.  
This led them to think that freedom and democracy can't solve the problems.  
They began to doubt democracy. Meanwhile, they might be mistreated by some  
Americans during their stay in the US. All this leads them to build animosity  
towards the US as a nation. You can clearly see this from some of Mr. Shi  
Chunde's posts. If people like him someday become policy makers in China, then  
the Sino-American relationship will be greatly affected.

Compare to Shi, Shannon Yeh is just a Bozo. He does not have much ability to  
think, analyze and reason with people. He does not have anything but  
persistence as a leader of a group. If you know Chinese characters, you might  
already see this from many of his posts in Chinese. For this reason, I tend not  
to take Shannon and his 9201 group seriously. Instead, I joke on him a lot. I  
feel sorry to people like Zuo Zhiqi because it appears that Zuo has more  
intelligence and more suitable to be a candidate of a lead of a campaign.  
Unfortunately, Shannon seems to be the leader. The reason of Shannon's hatred  
towards his fellow CSS is quite similar to the hatred the Red Gaurds had  
towards the "bourgeois intellectuals". 

I hope my post can clearify a little bit about your misunderstanding towards  
CSS as a whole. Your reply is appreciated.

Carl
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:28165 soc.culture.taiwan:14538 soc.culture.hongkong:12742