HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: zaphod@madnix.uucp (Ron Bean)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: The question of Experience
Keywords: college job entry cs sysadm
Date: 19 Dec 92 16:37:06 GMT
Organization: ARP Software

kwoods@eutopia.dell.com (Katherine Woods @ eutopia.dell.com) writes:
 
>If you were
>financially unable to complete your education, that would be understandable;
>but to give up because you can't interest yourself in topics other than
>computer science is a mistake. I also quit college at 19 because I wanted
>to work "in the real world" only to find out how much better off that little
>piece of paper could make my life. I went back to school at 23 and worked
>three jobs to say there, finally graduating at 28.
 
   Well, the grass is always greener on the other side. If you
hadn't dropped out, do you think you would have gotten as much
out of it as you did later when you went back?
 
   I didn't drop out, but I think a couple of years in the Real
World would have made me a much better student, and I would have
felt better about being there. Sure, I got my ticket punched, but
I felt like I wasn't getting a balanced view of things, because I
had never been away from the "Ivory Tower" for more than three
months at a time. I was pretty unhappy about it, and it affected
my self-confidence in job interviews later. But all the
propaganda said "stay in school at all costs", so I did.
 
>... I know many
>people my age whose only regret is that they did not finish college, and the
>older you get the harder is is to go back.
 
  This is true to a point, but I think if you only stay out a
couple of years the benefits might outweigh the drawbacks. As
always, you have to keep your goals in mind (and your finances in
order) so you'll be able to go back when the time comes.
 
   Another option, which someone else mentioned, would be to work
full time and go to night school, and transfer the credits later.
That might be the best of both worlds.
 
 
 
P.S. I've read that as many as 20% of recent college graduates
hold jobs that do not require a college degree. This is partly
due to the recession (it used to be 10%), and some of those
people will get better jobs later, but education alone doesn't
buy you a job.
 
==================
zaphod@madnix.UUCP (Ron Bean)
uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!zaphod
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: weinss@hall104.its.rpi.edu (Stephen Andrew Weinstein)
Subject: How to answer salary questions (was Re: Advice...resume)
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 02:40:37 GMT


If any employer asks how large a salary you want, obviously meaning
30K or 40K or something like that and you don't want to name a specific
number until you have an definite offer, is it ok to say "5 figures" as a joke.

Stephen Weinstein
weinss@rpi.edu
I will be away from the net 12/17 to 1/10.
If more college students voted (and could afford lobbyists), there'd be more
financial aid.
From: ramgopal@centerline.com (T.T. Ramgopal)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Question about Workers comp. for consultants
Date: 17 Dec 1992 19:16:37 GMT
Organization: Centerline Software (formerly Saber Software)
Distribution: world
Reply-To: ramgopal@centerline.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.239.1.73
Keywords: Workers comp. , self employed

I have a friend who was trying to get a  part time consulting position with a company in
the Bay area. He would have been a consultant with a software company. He told me that
he couldn't get the job as he didn't have Workers Comp. and that the company had a policy
to not hire anyone without that.

Can he give them a waiver form, absolving them of all responsibility? He said that he tried
asking insurance companies how to get one. Most of them told him that it was not available
for individuals. Some others told him that it would cost several thousands of dollars.

If anyone has any experience with something similar or could give me additional info,
I'd really appreciate it.

Please send me email as I don't usually read this news group.

Thanks
TT Ramgopal

--
T.T. Ramgopal					  ramgopal@CenterLine.COM
CenterLine Software Inc. (formerly Saber Software)   uunet!saber!ramgopal
10 Fawcett Street		     			 +1 617 498-3213
Cambridge, MA  02138  USA			    FAX: +1 617 868-6655 
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: icpa@iat.holonet.net (Tony Rodriguez)
Subject: International Software Assignments
Organization: HoloNet National Internet Access BBS: 510-704-1058/modem
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:38:46 GMT

	The International Computer Professional Association is a member 
supported organization for experienced software professionals who want to
work overseas. By using our network of over 750 technical recruitment firms 
in the US and abroad, members can find contract and permanent software jobs
throughout the world. If you are interested in working overseas, contact us
including your name, address, and evening phone number and we will send you
information on membership with the ICPA.


Sincerely 

Tony Rodriguez

Director ICPA


International Computer Professional Association
2261 Market Street, Suite 309
San Francisco, CA 94114
USA

Tel: (415) 695 - 7618
Fax: (415) 252 - 5769

email icpa@holonet.net
From: billd@gdstech.GRUMMAN.COM (Bill D'Camp)
Subject: Re: Advice from a hiring manager on resume
Organization: Grumman Corporation
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:30:33 GMT

  > In article lidth1INN3fh@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM, carole@rembrandt.Sun.COM (Carole Parker) writes:
  > > In article <1992Nov20.224949.7360@netcom.com> afisher@netcom.com (Alan Fisher) writes:
   ...
  > > 
  > >     Don't put anything non-essential or that can be discriminatory on your
  > >     resume.  This includes:
  > > 
  > >         Your picture which gets cut out by corporations.
  > > 
  > >         *Any* indication of race, age, marital status, or the fact that
  > >         you have children.
  > > 
  > >

   >Is this common sense in the USA? Do other hiring manager agree with that?

   >Is including a picture a disadvantage or even a reason for the exclusion
   >of an application?

   >I certainly do agree, that race should not be mentioned in a resume. But
   >what is about age!


   >Background:

   >I am German and try to apply in the USA. Habits of writing cover letters and
   >resumes differ from country to country. A modern German book about applications
   >_recommends_ including a picture and mentioning the age in the resume!

   >-- Franz Weber 

In the US inclusion of photos is not a good idea, there is always the
potential for age or race discrimination, although I don't believe any
company or hiring manager would admit to this.  In Asia and, I
understand, most of Europe it is expected that a photo will accompany
the CV.  Of course the format of a CV is not quite the same as the
normal format of a resume as American companies expect to see them.

I do remember one instance when I wish an applicant had included a
picture.  I received a resume for an opening from who had worked at
the same company as I had several years previously.  The name on the
resume was not familiar, but the timeframe and projects going on in
the company at the time were a match.  I could not the person from
their resume so I had them come in for an interview.  I recognized the
person as soon as they arrived, it was a women who had gone by a
nickname which was not dirivative of her given name and who had gotten
married and taken her husband's last name.  The reason I wish I had
known who she was is that she had been very disruptive at the previous
company, constantly causing arguments and was not very good at her
job.  I got through the interview with some difficulty and we sent her
a no thank you letter.

--
    _   /|
    \`o_O'
      ( )    Aachk! Phft!
       U     billd@gdstech.grumman.com
"All opinions expressed herein are my own, they do not represent the
opinions of my employer."

-- 
    _   /|
    \`o_O'
      ( )    Aachk! Phft!
       U     billd@gdstech.grumman.com
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: plm@ausom.oz.au (Philip Manuel)
Subject: Working in Kuwait.....
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 09:54:40 GMT
Organization: AUSOM - The Apple Users Society of Melbourne

Hello,

  Does any one have an idea about the work environment in Kuwait. I
have been offered a job there and would like to hear from anyone who has
some useful information to share, either through personal experience or
through anyone they know. I would also like to know about the job prospects
for lady doctors there.

  Thanks very much.


-- 
Philip L. Manuel
e.mail: plm%ausom.oz@sol.cc.deakin.oz.au  (AutoReplyDoesNotWork)
Snail.mail: 26 Clarinda Road, Clarinda, Victoria 3169. AUSTRALIA
****************************************************************
From: fino@point.cs.uwm.edu (Alexander Finogenov)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Where can I get cost-of-living data?
Date: 16 Dec 1992 15:22:05 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.5

In article <1992Dec16.032843.27499@cs.wisc.edu> roth@feline.cs.wisc.edu (Bill Roth) writes:
: I would like to know where I can data on the relative cost of living
: differences in major cities around the country. I would like to know,
: with some degree of accuracy, either statistical or scientifical,
: what the cost-of-living differences between Madison, WI and Austin, TX
: are.


I have seen that kind of info in an issue (or even issues) of the FORTUNE
magazine.  It was published in 1991 or in spring 92. I remember it
was dedicated to the 10 best business-oriented cities in USA, but there was
info for every state and major cities in it.

Alex
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: rhu1506@usl.edu (Unadkat Rajesh H)
Subject: Re: Companies ack of receipt of resume...
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:40:13 GMT

I got more than 50% responses in response to recent applications.

But I wounder that after getting this kind of acknowledgement, is
there any chance of getting telephone interview ? !!! 'coz
I haven't got any phone call, from companies who sent me ack and
on the contrary I got a few phone calls from the companies who did not
send me ack. !!! is it usual or I am unusual ? 

Rajesh
.


--
From: 89500831@vax1.dcu.ie (Ronnie Albuquerque)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Recruitment agencies in Boston area.
Date: 13 Dec 1992 10:17:22 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Date       : Sun, 13 Dec 1992 16:05 GMT

Hi all,

Does anyone out there have a list fo headhunters/recruitment agencies in the
Boston area?

If I can be a wee bit specific - I need details of agencies who would consider
someone on a temporary work visa; as I've been told that unless you've a
green-card/citizenship, most agencies just don't want to know.

All replies by e-mail,please; as this posting is being gatewayed to the Usenet.
Any worthwile replies will be compiled and posted for everyone.

Thanks in advance.

-Ronnie.
--
Ronnie Albuquerque.
89500831@dcu.ie, cc445@cleveland.freenet.edu

"I'm not that kind of girl - it's just the way I'm drawn..."- Jessica Rabbit.
From: dgeary@sierra.com (David Geary)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Failing drug tests
Date: 15 Dec 92 20:17:36 GMT
Organization: Sierra Geophysics,  Kirkland WA

In article <1992Dec08.163446.21295@microsoft.com> philco@microsoft.com (Phillip Cooper) writes:
>In article <Dec.4.09.59.49.1992.16634@paul.rutgers.edu> czako@paul.rutgers.edu (Gabor M. Czako) writes:
>>
>>Are there are any legal, over-the-counter drugs (or other legal
>>substances) which may cause failure in a standard drug test?
>>
>>Gabe
>
>There are many legal substances which can cause a false positive on a
>drug test, including the ever-popular (but exceedingly dangerous) poppy
>seed muffin.  Some cough syrups also show up.
>
>my advice:  Don't work for a company that insists on violating your
>civil rights.
>
>Phil

  Of course Gabe defines "failure" as testing positive for an *illegal* drug.

  Evidently it is now in vogue to test, (and subsequently terminate) any
employee who tests positive for *legal* (prescription) drugs (including 
over-the-counter inhalents) if the employee has not had such medication
prescribed.

  In addition, such things as searches of your person/vehicle/home are also 
becoming popular.

-- 
David Geary           	|   Seattle - America's most attractive city ... 
Sierra Geophysics	|	
dgeary@sierra.com	|   to the jetstream ;-(
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: ted@sage0.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ted Ying)
Subject: Re: Companies ack of receipt of resume...
Organization: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 05:00:20 GMT

lauter@pogo.den.mmc.com (Karen Lauter) writes:

>In article <q#-rn9+@lynx.unm.edu>, blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.) writes:
>> 
>> Do companies not acknowledge receipt of resumes anymore? It is certainly
>> seeming that way in my latest job search....
>> 
>Actually, I think you were pretty lucky to receive that high of a percentage.
>I received about 15% after responding to a specific job advertisement.  As a 
>result and figuring that the others were history as far as results, I sent 
>the following nasty-gram to many companies that had not responded to me.

> [...response letter ommitted...]
>
>I received a 50% response to this follow-up letter.  Some companies were even
>appreciative that I had brought their negligence to their attention.  
>Hopefully, if we continue to bring this to employers' attention, they will
>show some consideration - even to just mail a form postcard.

	Hmmm...I think that this could be unnecessarily harsh.  As one
	other poster mentioned, in times of economic recession, volume
	of responses to job advertisements increase.  It is quite
	common to receive several hundred responses to a job posting.
	And in tough economic times, most companies are already somewhat
	short on staff and short on resources.  It can be quite
	difficult to respond to receiving the resume/cover letter.

	I would be more perturbed to not get some notice of rejection
	or invitation for interview than for failure to receive an
	acknowledgement of receipt.

	Since many companies nowadays no longer send out acknowledgement
	letters, if it is so important to you, include a self-addressed
	stamped acknowledgement card with your resume and ask that the
	employer drop it in the mail when they receive your resume.
	This works just like those cards in university applications.
	It requires little effort on the employers part to drop the
	return card in the outgoing mail.

	The problem that I see in expecting a response (and sending out
	some rude response letter) is that employers are already busy
	and short-staffed and may not have time for all the niceties of
	the job hunt.  Most people who receive resumes barely have time
	to review the resumes, cull out those who they don't even want
	to interview, send them rejection letters, schedule the remaining
	ones for interviews, etc.  That sending an additional acknowledgement
	to ALL applicants is enough to significantly affect the rest of
	their work.  Additionally, many places are cutting down on
	clerical staff and the clerical staff are grossly overworked.

	I don't think that it is still incumbent upon an employer to
	acknowledge receipt of resume and letter these days.


	Ted Ying			ted@rosserv.gsfc.nasa.gov
	Hughes/STX			Goddard Space Flight Center
From: graham@cs.utexas.edu (Ralph Arnold Graham)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: The question of Experience
Date: 15 Dec 1992 19:20:42 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: lovelady.cs.utexas.edu
Keywords: college job entry cs sysadm


I concur that a college degree is crucial.  I don't agree that it is all its
cracked up to be.  I think the idea is to expose a young and undirected mind
to the learning process and emphasize that there are broad horizons to be
explored throughout life.  I don't think every person with a degree is
going to be a more capable employee than all those without any degree, but the
industry must use some sort of benchmarks.  A degreed candidate will generally
be selected over a non-degreed one.  By the same token, a person's GPA is not
always the best indicator of their learning capabilities.  Again, it does
serve as a benchmark in the absence of any other indicators.

Had I stayed with the programming job I held prior to college, I would be
making more than I am as a recent graduate because I would have risen in the
hierarchy.  However, I realized that the future would not be as bright if
I were passed over in favor of a degreed co-worker.  I also struggled through
school by working 20-30 hrs/week (no family, however).  I don't regret 
the struggle for the piece of paper that claims I am a now a potentially
more capable employee - that is just the way the world operates.  My greatest
learning experience in college was time priortization (and to appreciate the
free time I now have!!!!).

My personal advice is to stick out the degree.  The suggestion of attending
a community college or a school with a less strenuous curriculum is an
excellent idea.  In most cases, one is only required to take the last 30 or
so hours in attendance at a university to graduate from there.  Don't
underestimate the worth of a strong GPA.  If you get booted for your grades,
either sit out the required time or attend another school, but get that
darned degree - it is unlikely you will ever regret it.  The 4-6 year
time and money investment for the degree will generally pay off in spades.




-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
	Ralph Graham		                graham@cs.utexas.edu
     . . . life is merely a wretched cesspool of twisted emotions . . . 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Richard.Devine@f99.n121.z1.fidonet.org (Richard Devine)
Sender: FredGate@p0.f99.n121.z1.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: AGS
Date: 13 Dec 92  22:30:18 CST

Colette Johnen
Could you tell me the full name of this AGS,and leave me your phone number?


 * Origin: NineJackNine (1:121/99)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: rschmitt@shearson.com (Robert Schmitt)
Subject: Re: Advice from a hiring manager on resume
Reply-To: rschmitt@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:44:33 GMT

> Were you always as responsive and honest when you were hiring?  If I'm
> pressed for a dollar amount, I usually say, "Tell me how much you have
> budgeted for the position."  (Afterall, what I would like for a salary is
> irrelevant if it isn't within their budget.)  Care to wager how many
> interviewers have given me that figure?
> 

(...)

> But did you ever come out and say, "Given your experience, education, and
> job progression, your starting salary with our company will probably be in
> the $xx,xxx-xx,xxx range.  Is this an acceptable figure?"  Only one 
> company I've ever interviewed with has done this and they did it when they
> called to set up the interview.

Except for my first job, I've always been able to get the salary range that the
hiring manager can afford and have been able to dicker with him within that range
(and for more or less benefits if I was going for less or more money).  I've always
found out afterwards if that was the true range the manager had (and NOT ONE has
lied to me, yet).  For my first job out of school I was afraid to ask, as it seemed
to "forward" at the time.

Bob
------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert A. Schmitt              |
RESolution Graphics Inc.       |  "We're not hitchhiking anymore!!
Data Vis, nD Graphics          |   We're riding!!!"  -  Ren Hoek
rschmitt@shearson.com          |

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: weinss@warren1c.its.rpi.edu (Stephen Andrew Weinstein)
Subject: Re: Controversial organizations? (Re: Advice from a hiring manager on resumes)
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 23:28:06 GMT

Showing that one IS smart and that one THINKS one is smart are to
entirely different things.
Mensa is an example of a group of people who think they are smart, and
who form an organization solely to show they are smart.
National Merit Scholarships are accepted by anyone who qualifies and
are not a sign of showing off.  However, there is a lot of public doubt
about whether standardized tests really reflect intellegence.
Although I would find it absurd to reject anyone from a school with
a ROTC program even if they did not participate.  However, I would be
reluctant to hire anyone from the military for certain jobs, because
the U.S.S. Iowa, Tailhock, etc., have shown that the military seems to
train people to think results and reputations are more important than 
honesty and facts.  

Stephen Weinstein weinss@rpi.edu
Pick your favorite sig:
If more college students voted (and could afford lobbyists),
	there'd be more financial aid.           
It's not whether your answers are right or wrong; 
	it's who grades your paper that determines the grade.
2+2=4
At R.P.I., we can build a plane in a few months but there are locks, tiolets,
        light bulbs, and other simple things that take years to fix.
I am about to leave for holiday break.  I will be away from the net
	and unable to receive E-mail until about Jan 10.
Happy New Year and misc other holidays.
	(This is how to avoid offending people by mentioning
		holidays of religions they dislike!)
The opinions expressed are not those of the company that employs me because:
	1. I am not a company employee.
	2. Companies don't have opinions, any more than a computer can hate me.
35 days left until President Clinton.
From: keithg@cnmhnet.UUCP (keith garrard)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Advice from a hiring manager on resume
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:08:31 GMT
Organization: California-Nevada Methodist Homes

In article <1gb2pjINNc75@FUNCTOR.SYSTEMSZ.CS.YALE.EDU> loosemore-sandra@cs.yale.edu (Sandra Loosemore) writes:
>mbond@ugly.UVic.CA (Michael  Bond) writes:
>   What do they want when an employer asks for your salary requirements?
>-Sandra

Well Sandra, I can tell you what I've done several times in thepast.
Usually. when filling out an application, there will be a block that
says something like "salary expected".  Now, I know they expect me
to enter a dollar amount there, but I had the same fears that you
expressed.  So I was creative, and inserted the word "Yes" in that
block.  When asked about it in the interview, such as, "Keith, I
noticed that you put the word YES in the block where it says 
SALARY EXPECTED.  I would answer that yes, I did expect a salary,
as opposed to being an hourly employee.  I also stated that I 
appreciated their asking."  This was always so enlightening to them,
that someone could interpret the question that way, that they
always forgot about asking me for an actual dollar amount, and 
it prompted a good conversational exchange.  This only enhanced
the interview process.  However, the few times I was pressed for
a dollar amount, I answered with a diatribe like "Obviously,
I would expect a salary that would offer sufficient compensation
for someone of my experience and knowledge."  This put them in
the position of almost having to apologize for even asking the
question in the first place.
--Keith
From: trivedi@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (Hemang Trivedi)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Civil Engineering Salary?
Date: 18 Dec 92 20:45:25 GMT
Organization: Temple University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Private work for small company. Basically involved in estimations and
design work
Hemang
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc