HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kat@werple.apana.org.au (Kathryn Andersen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Film/video room
Date: 4 Jan 1993 08:35:44 +1100
Organization: werple public-access unix, Melbourne
NNTP-Posting-Host: werple.apana.org.au

kasprj@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak) writes:

>In article <1993Jan03.021241.12466@clarinet.com>, brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes:
>|> In article <1i53j0INN33g@werple.apana.org.au> kat@werple.apana.org.au (Kathryn Andersen) writes:
>|> >For example, Australia is about 3 years behind in the showing of Star Trek
>|> >the Next Generation - so the latest episodes of the series are a good
>|> >thing for a video room over here
>|> 
>|> And almost certainly ilicit showings, since they take away from the
>|> audience for the legit showings with Australian advertisers.
> 
> Brad, you weenie, the economy of Australia is not going to collapse, nor
>is Paramount going to go broke, if a few fans watch Star Trek tapes at cons.
I wouldn't have called Brad a weenie, but I'd have to agree.
I would be *very* surprised if there were *any* audience overlap between
Australian advertisers and your convention-going fan (who are mostly uni
students).  Neither Star Trek nor conventions are big business over here.
Star Trek does not get shown in prime time.  If it had not done okay in
its almost-graveyard timeslot I expect we would not be seeing it at all.
And the conventions over here, compared to US conventions, are small,
infrequent and expensive.  And for the past few years there has been
much apathy and very little new blood in fandom over here.
The most active interations I've had are with international clubs,
or on the 'net!  (Long live the Blake's 7 mailing list!) Do you know how
many people I have met at conventions who have an email address?
Precisely 4, at two different conventions.  Not counting me.

Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"I don't mind rough, it's fatal I'm not too keen on."
	-- Vila Restal			(Blake's 7: Duel [A8])
-- 
 _--_|\		Kathryn Andersen	<kat@werple.apana.org.au>
/      \	Hawthorn -> Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia
\_.--.*/	-> Southern Hemisphere -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy
      v			-- My other account is an Apollo --
From: Bill Taylor <wtaylor@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Date: 02 Jan 93 15:58 PST
Subject: Re: Film/video room
Nf-ID: #R:zardoz.04x7@sycom.mi.org:427822826:cdp:1574000001:000:349
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!wtaylor    Jan  2 15:58:00 1993


The video room a LosCon this past year ran Japanimation about 14 hours
daily.  this has been tradition for some time.  Last year they ran
schlock SF movies for the graveyard shift, but dropped it this year
due to lack of interest.

the Japanese stuff is expensive/rare in the US, sothe room gives
all interested parties a chance to sample it.

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: 10-Fan Quorum and like that
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 16:49:56 -0600

 MVP> That's also what BayCon did, and the studios said 
 MVP> $250 per film per showing.

 MVP> Period.  No options, no alternatives.  $250 per film 
 MVP> per showing.

 MVP> That's why BayCon had no film film program this year.

Minicon had a similar problem, and went to a video rental place that had already
secured rights to show the videos to audiences under certain conditions that we
were able to meet.  I think the cost was on the order of $500.  As far as I'm
concerned, I could do without the video room, but a lot of people seem to like
it.
  
As far as I can tell, movie (film) rental doesn't involve the same sort of issue
-- it is assumed when you rent a 16 mm film that you're going to be showing it
to a group.

Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.fandom:1331 rec.arts.sf.written:16720
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Arisia vs. Boskone
Date: 21 Dec 92 22:58:51 GMT
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <DGG.92Dec21154439@mickey.think.com> dgg@think.com (David Grubbs) writes:
>	   But who knows what lurks
>	   in the hearts of fen?

No, no, no!

"Who knows what *weevils*lunch* in the hearts of fen?"
(The Shadrack do...)

Sheesh.... :-)

	--Hal
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |            You!
510-823-5447                 |    Out of the Gene Pool!
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |
From: Joel.Rosenberg@f13135.n567.z0.tdkt.kksys.com (Joel Rosenberg)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: What Really Happened After Boskone 24 (was Re: Arisia Vs. Boskone)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1993 01:20:15 -0600

In a message to All <31 Dec 92 18:16> "donald E. Eastlake 3rd, writes in and
says:

 "EE3> By the way, I rarely use the phrase
 "EE3> "Boskone from Hell".  I enjoyed Boskone 24
 "EE3> and think that description is misleading.

I'm glad to read that.  I was beginning to think that I was the 
only one.  (I had a great time.  Hell, I've never been to a 
Boskone and had less than a real good time.)

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: anderson@allvax.enet.dec.com (Dave Anderson)
Subject: What really happened after Boskone 24 (was Re: Arisia vs. Boskone)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 30 DEC 92 13:39:38 EST


What a lot of people don't seem to realize is that after the 'Boskone from
Hell' the only alternative to cutting the size of the convention from about
4500 to about 1500 was to not hold the convention at all!  After the Sheraton
decided that they didn't want our business an extensive search for a new hotel
was done, starting in Boston and working outward.  The only hotels we could 
find that were willing to host the next year's Boskone were in Springfield (MA)
and in Hartford (CT), and both were much smaller than the Sheraton.  I've never
seen the Hartford hotel myself, but the Springfield hotels would certainly be
seriously overcrowded with attendence around 2000 and arguably couldn't really
hold more than about 1500.  So, regardless of any other considerations, Boskone
*had to* eliminate about 3000 attendees.

In addition to this problem our new hotels, though interested in our business,
were rather skittish (based on what they'd heard about the previous Boskone).
If we'd had any significant problems at Boskone 25 they almost certainly would
have refused to have us back, and Boskone would have died.  As a result, we had
to restrict anything that might cause hotel problems.  We were forced to be
more restrictive than we wanted to be, since excess restrictions would merely
annoy people (unpleasant for all concerned, but the convention would survive)
while too little restriction could destroy the convention. 

Given more time and less stress, the 'infamous letter' could undoubtedly have
been worded better; but, even in hindsight, it was little if any more
restrictive than it had to be.  It did tell a lot of people that we were
dropping them from our mailing list, but can anyone seriously argue that a
convention that can't afford to have more than about 1500 attendees should send
mailings to 5000-6000 people?  The letter was, in fact, rather less restrictive
than has been claimed by some people, and many of those restrictions were
intended to be temporary and were relaxed the next year.  It did say that, as
part of 'downsizing' the convention, we intended to refocus it on those things
of most interest to the group doing the work of running the convention.  This
was not because we were 'against' the aspects that were being eliminated, but
because there was too much to fit comfortably in a smaller convention (and
because a number of people were getting tired of the additional work caused by
including areas in which they had no interest -- refocusing Boskone had been
discussed for a couple of years before this time, but previously inertia had
won). 

	Dave (anderson@allvax.enet.dec.com)

Me? Speak for DEC? HA!
From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)
Subject: Re: Film/video room
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1993 02:12:41 GMT

In article <1i53j0INN33g@werple.apana.org.au> kat@werple.apana.org.au (Kathryn Andersen) writes:
>For example, Australia is about 3 years behind in the showing of Star Trek
>the Next Generation - so the latest episodes of the series are a good
>thing for a video room over here

And almost certainly ilicit showings, since they take away from the
audience for the legit showings with Australian advertisers.  It's nice
to get it earlier, but you have to realize that for these popular items,
selling advertising, or getting people together in a room and doing a
screening is how the producers make their money.  If you show Star Trek
or other stuff you're doing something that legit people have to pay a
good sum of money to do, even if the video room were free to all comers.

Leave video rooms for the non-mainstream stuff that the producers are
glad to get exposed.
-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: mwallis@lunacity.com (Michael Wallis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Boskone Art Show (was Re: Hello Confrancisco?)
Date: 26 Dec 92 07:56:45 GMT
Organization: LunaCity BBS - (Clan Zen Relay Network) Mountain View, CA

rcampb@cac.washington.edu (Russ Campbell ) writes:

> I haven't been to one, yet, but from the attitude I smell in a post more
> reactionary than contributory to discussion I'd have to say if I do I sure
> as hell won't continue my practice of arriving at the art show hours early
> to help, taking time out later to set up my own work, and then
> volunteering more time when I do get to one.

I seem to take a more missionary approach ... they obviously need the help.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Wallis -> mwallis@lunacity.com

PLAN:   Live fast, die young, leave a neat corpse.
        Oh ... I'm too old to die young?     Rats!
From: chad@quality.ta.ford.com (Chad Childers)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Confusion: need hotel info
Date: 22 Dec 1992 22:23:42 GMT
Organization: Technical Affairs, Ford Motor Company
Reply-To: Chad Childers <chad@quality.ta.ford.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pms035.pms.ford.com
X-Disclaimer: Not an official spokesman for Ford Tech Affairs
Originator: chad@pms035

The Southfield Days Hotel phone is (313) 557-4800.  Be sure to mention
ConFusion to get the $55 a night rate.  Checkout is 3 PM.  The convention
will be Jan 22-24.

-- 
Chad Childers                            Work: chad@quality.ta.ford.com
FMEAplus Project Leader                  Home: chad@deep.mi.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: exile@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Heresiarch)
Subject: Re: Arisia-can I pay at door?
Reply-To: exile@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Organization: The Torch of Chaos and Doubt
	<1992Dec21.185948.1787@news.cs.brandeis.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 14:25:43 GMT

disclaimer:  i'm not on the arisia concom this year.  i don't speak
for etc. etc.

in spite of persistant rumors, arisia has yet to sell out a convention
completely.  this might have something to do with a recession.
anyway, i would suggest until further notice disregarding any
indications that arisia might sell out.  obviously preregistering is
less expensive and more certain for you and better for the concom, but
it appears that arisia paid attendance will be around 1200 this year.
furthermore, preregistration closes 6 weeks before the con.  if you
send them money, you should send them the at door price anyway.

basis of this projection:  i ran registration this year.  arisia's
percentage of prereg to walk-in is about 60-40.  last prereg numbers
were 800.  note that non-paid members aren't included in the 1500
count either.

more blathering from the society for recovering concom members.
--
<SIG>___________________________________________________________________
It's an old wall, Avon.  It waits.  I just hope you reach it
before you die.                                                    </SIG>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: anderson@allvax.enet.dec.com (Dave Anderson)
Subject: Re: What really happened after Boskone 24 (was Re: Arisia vs. Boskone)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 31 DEC 92 13:29:08 EST


In article <1992Dec31.163944.22566@athena.mit.edu>, amd@space.mit.edu (Ann M. Davis) writes...
>Whether intended or not, the message my friends and I got from the 
>letter was "If 'we' (NESFA), don't know you (personally), you can't come"

A number of people read that into the letter; it was definitely not intended,
and we regret that people took it that way.

While many people took the letter as we intended, enough didn't so that (IMHO)
it evidently was not as clearly-written as it should have been; in our defense,
all I can say is that it was written in a period of high stress and little
available time.

	Dave (anderson@allvax.enet.dec.com)

Me? Speak for DEC? HA!
From: wixer!cactus.org!wixer!pro-smof.cts.com!rreedyrreedy@cactus.org (Robert Reedy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Conadian
Date: 26 Dec 1992 06:44:04 -0600
Organization: The SMOF-BBS: Science Fiction Online Since 1985 [512-467-7317]
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

   What is the rate for a supporting membership to Conadian in 1994?       
 

Bob Reedy
----
ProLine:  rreedyrreedy@pro-smof
Internet: rreedyrreedy@pro-smof.cts.com
UUCP:     crash!pro-smof!rreedyrreedy
ARPA:     crash!pro-smof!rreedyrreedy@nosc.mil
From: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Arisia vs. Boskone
Date: 31 Dec 1992 15:37:51 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Reply-To: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: ansible.pubs.stratus.com

Jim Mann writes
>In article <1992Dec30.002935.17055@radian.uucp>  
>markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
>> I'd say the battle is between SMOF-run cons, who want to big, and  
>> yet exclusive, tending to prefer print to any other media, and those who  
>> want to remain like the cons used to be.
>Define "used to be."  I'd argue that cons that tend to prefer
>print media ARE like cons "used to be."  But then, I define
>"used to be" based on 1975.  Most people tend to define "used
>to be" based on what it was like when they first started
>going to conventions.

Good point, Jim.

Though, Mark, I am at a loss to think of any "SMOF-run cons, who
want to big and yet exclusive..."  Could you name one, please?
There are lots of people who want to run BIG conventions and big
conventions cannot be exclusive by their very nature.  Some of us
don't want to work on big conventions other than the occasional
Worldcon.  There's plenty of audience in fandom for all
kinds of conventions.

The attitudes among "SMOFS" are extremely divergent on how
to run cons and on what size cons are "best." 

*  In Germany they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak *
*  because I wasn't a Communist.  Then they came for the Jews, and I *
*  didn't speak because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade *
* unionists, and I didn't speak because I wasn't a trade unionist... *
*Then they came for me--and by that time no one was left to speak up.*
*  Rev. Martin Niemoeller     [Why to March on Washington in April]  *
From: kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: 10-fan Quorum And Like That
Date: 1 Jan 93 17:51:36 GMT
Organization: nope

In article <725844908.AA01486@tdkt.kksys.com> David.Dyer-bennet@f341.n409.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (David Dyer-bennet) writes:
>
> BF> As far as I can tell, movie (film) rental doesn't involve the
> BF> same sort of issue -- it is assumed when you rent a 16 mm film
> BF> that you're going to be showing it to a group.
>
>It involves the same *issue* -- but it comes pre-solved.  

It takes a fair bit more effort to copy a film than a video tape.
Therefore it isn't done as frequently, and is less of a risk.

Of course, Cinemascope technology is some 40 years old, and not
beyond the reach of a lot of peole...

-- 
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
uupsi!khazad!kassover	          sharp weapons and dull judges."
kassover@aule-tek.com                   F. Collins
kassover@ra.crd.ge.com
From: mwallis@lunacity.com (Michael Wallis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Boskone Art Show (was Re: Hello Confran
Date: 26 Dec 92 08:02:03 GMT
Organization: LunaCity BBS - (Clan Zen Relay Network) Mountain View, CA

janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM (Janice Gelb) writes:

> I didn't see where Jim (who I gather is now the personification of
> Boskone? :-# ) was telling everyone else that they have to change -- he
> had stated that mail-ins are discouraged for various reasons and then
> explained why, as the excerpted posts below show. You are posting your 
> opinion of what major con art shows can handle, and he is posting his. 
> I think you're confusing the people who have been involved with the 
> ConFrancisco art show with someone on the net who is expressing his 
> opinion on a topic.

You are right in that I shouldn't be blaming Jim for things he's not been
involved with. Overwork, stress, frustration and general grumpyness
contributed to my reacting before I thought. ("Always make sure brain is
engaged before putting m/o/u/t/h/ fingers in gear!")

        Michael

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Wallis -> mwallis@lunacity.com

PLAN:   Live fast, die young, leave a neat corpse.
        Oh ... I'm too old to die young?     Rats!
From: mwallis@lunacity.com (Michael Wallis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Arisia vs. Boskone
Date: 26 Dec 92 08:36:13 GMT
Organization: LunaCity BBS - (Clan Zen Relay Network) Mountain View, CA

figmo@netcom.com (Lynn Gold) writes:

> There are two cons in the Boston area in the winter.
> 
> Apparently, there's some kind of rivalry between them, based on the
> msgs I've seen.
> 
> Not being familiar with east coast fan politics, what IS the
> difference between Arisia and Boskone (other than their names, dates,
> and locations)?  What is the "battle" all about?

Read Doc Smith's LENSMAN series. Really. It's all in there.

        8-)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Wallis -> mwallis@lunacity.com

PLAN:   Live fast, die young, leave a neat corpse.
        Oh ... I'm too old to die young?     Rats!
From: support@fy.chalmers.se (F-sektionens Entusiaster)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: ADRESS Joanna Russ
Date: 22 Dec 92 18:14:40 GMT
Organization: Chalmers Univ. of Technology, G|teborg, Sweden






          Does anyone know the adress for fan-mail to Joanna Russ?
 
                                                -Kristina M. Knaving
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: What really happened after Boskone 24 (was Re: Arisia vs. Boskone)
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 18:20:14 GMT

rkolker@nuchat.sccsi.com (Rich Kolker):
>It smacked of, "It's my ball, and if you don't play my way, you can go home."

You say that as if it were a bad thing.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: amd@space.mit.edu (Ann M. Davis)
Subject: Re: What really happened after Boskone 24 (was Re: Arisia vs. Boskone)
Organization: MIT Center for Space Research
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 16:39:44 GMT


I will not get involved, I will not get involved,  I will not..

Okay, so I couldn't resist.

|> > anderson@allvax.enet.dec.com (Dave Anderson) writes:
|> >
|> >What a lot of people don't seem to realize is that after the 'Boskone from
|> >Hell' the only alternative to cutting the size of the convention from about
|> >4500 to about 1500 was to not hold the convention at all!  After the 
Sheraton
|> >decided that they didn't want our business an extensive search for a 
new hotel
|> >
|>    [stuf deleted you should have read earlier]
|> >	Dave (anderson@allvax.enet.dec.com)
|> >

I understand that the size of Boskone had to be reduced.  I understand
drastic measures may have been necessary.  All I can say is the method
chosen worked very well. I have no desire to attend another Boskone.

Whether intended or not, the message my friends and I got from the 
letter was "If 'we' (NESFA), don't know you (personally), you can't come"


	Ann

-- 

Ann M. Davis
amd@space.mit.edu			 "Choose your battles wisely"
MIT Center for Space Research		
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Film/video room
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 23:52:50 GMT

In article <1993Jan03.021241.12466@clarinet.com> brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes:
>>For example, Australia is about 3 years behind in the showing of Star Trek
>>the Next Generation - so the latest episodes of the series are a good
>>thing for a video room over here
>And almost certainly ilicit showings, since they take away from the
>audience for the legit showings with Australian advertisers.  It's nice
>to get it earlier, but you have to realize that for these popular items,
>selling advertising, or getting people together in a room and doing a
>screening is how the producers make their money.  If you show Star Trek
>or other stuff you're doing something that legit people have to pay a
>good sum of money to do, even if the video room were free to all comers.

If the producers were to get their act together and actually show the stuff on
time, all of this wouldn't be necessary.
--
"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Leftover Turkey!
On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Turkey Casserole
    that she made from Leftover Turkey.
[days 3-4 deleted] ...  Flaming Turkey Wings! ...
   -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: What really happened after Boskone 24 (was Re: Arisia vs. Boskone)
Date: 31 Dec 1992 15:03:47 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Dec30.194328.5873@ryn.mro4.dec.com>  
anderson@allvax.enet.dec.com (Dave Anderson) writes:
> 
> What a lot of people don't seem to realize is that after the  
'Boskone from
> Hell' the only alternative to cutting the size of the convention  
from about
> 4500 to about 1500 was to not hold the convention at all!  After  
the Sheraton
> decided that they didn't want our business an extensive search for  
a new hotel
> was done, starting in Boston and working outward.  The only hotels  
we could 
> find that were willing to host the next year's Boskone were in  
Springfield (MA)
> and in Hartford (CT), and both were much smaller than the Sheraton.   
I've never
> seen the Hartford hotel myself, but the Springfield hotels would  
certainly be
> seriously overcrowded with attendence around 2000 and arguably  
couldn't really
> hold more than about 1500.  So, regardless of any other  
considerations, Boskone
> *had to* eliminate about 3000 attendees.

The Hartford hotels were about the same size as those in Springfield,
but were a bit farther apart (a block and a half instead of
right across the street).  In hindsight, it would have been really
bad had we gone to Hartford, since one of the two hotels we used
was torn down a year or two later, so we could probably have
only held two Boskones there.  (The demolition of the Hilton
would have made a great program item though.)

--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom