From: homebrew@lupulus.ssc.gov
Subject: HOMEBREW Digest #1065
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 09:01:48 GMT


HOMEBREW Digest #1065                        Thu 28 January 1993


        FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
                Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Propensity Pilsner Lagering Questions (Marc Tamsky)
  Cops  (Kurt Swanson)
  Semi Annual Wort Chiller diatribe (Mike Zentner)
  Weinhenstephan Wheat yeast (Michael T. Lobo)
  Culturing Sierra Nevada Dregs (Joseph Nathan Hall)
  Diastatic Power of Wheat Malt (Joseph Nathan Hall)
  Articles on Malting Methods (Glenn Raudins)
  re:doughing in water onto malt (Jim Busch)
  n.amine,dough-in (Russ Gelinas)
  nitrosamines (KLIGERMAN)
  Old trub, New wort story (Randall Holt)
  Source for caps for Champagne bottles. (Corby Bacco)
  Bay area Brewoff Results ("Bob Jones")
  Re: pvc v. copper (atl)
  Double BOck anyone??? (Michael Reinhorn)
  And now, a beer for cats! (Phillip Seitz)
  Re: freezing pellets, low pilsner yield (larryba)
  Homebrew Digest #1063 (January 26, 1993) (Ray Peck)
  Hop Storage; Brewers Publications (Glenn Raudins)
  Central Florida brewers? (Guy McConnell)
  nitro-what? ("Knight,Jonathan G")
  Re: Colour Units (korz)
  re-using yeast in fermenter (Peter Maxwell)
  Yeast Culturing Questions (Hardy M. Cook)
  turpentine/solvents (Rob Bradley)


Send articles for __publication__ to homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu.
    (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from
    listserv@sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
    message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
**Please do not send me requests for back issues!**
*********(They will be silenty discarded!)*********
**For Cat's Meow information, send mail to lutzen@novell.physics.umr.edu**

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 00:06:05 -0800
From: finette!tamsky@hub.ucsb.edu (Marc Tamsky)
Subject: Propensity Pilsner Lagering Questions

I am posting for a friend, but he made the following, and has a few questions:

Propensity Pilsner (from Papazian's NCJOHB)
Wyeast #2007 (I think it's a bavarian lager, but the # is definitely correct.)

OG: 1055

Primary Ferment for one week @ 52F.
Racked to secondary.
Secondary Ferment is currently on it's NINTH week @ 40F.
Still getting glugs every 60 seconds from normal 3-piece airlock.

Bottom of carboy currently has ~1 inch of all-one-color trub.
Color is crystal clear.

Questions:
Is this too long of a ferment?
Should this be re-racked into a third carboy to get it off the trub?
With 60sec/glug does he need to wait any longer before bottling?
If he bottles now, should he use less priming sugar since it's not finished?

Thanks
[post replies to here or to me with cc: to pauljj@aol.com (the brewer of
the batch)]
tamsky@finette.UUCP  ||  tamsky@crash.cts.com


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 11:14:05 +0000 (GMT)
From: Kurt Swanson <Kurt.Swanson@dna.lth.se>
Subject: Cops

After reading Mr. Barbour's response to his hate mail, I tend to agree
with him - up to a limit...

The TV show cannot be expected to know all the ins & outs of
homebrewing, hang-gliding, tiddlywinks, and other pursuits.  And
"Cinema Verite" is worth preserving - BUT it should be prefaced as
such.  I think the show ought to begin with a disclaimer - "we show it
as it is - without any justification, morally or legally, on our
part."

Just my thought - if you find it distasteful you can send your
hate mail to:

Kurt Swanson
K|rb{rsv{gen 26
S-223 55  LUND, Sweden
- --
Kurt Swanson, Dept. of Computer Science,
Lunds universitet.  Kurt.Swanson@dna.lth.se

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 08:28:01 -0500
From: zentner@ecn.purdue.edu (Mike Zentner)
Subject: Semi Annual Wort Chiller diatribe


Mike Zulaf asks about tubing in ice chillers.

Mike, while I haven't built one of these specifically, I have seen one
work and can offer some general advice which may be of use to other
readers as well.

In general, don't go with any tubing smaller than 3/8" OD unless your
tubing length is very short (I built a counter flow chiller with 1/4"
and was sorry I wasted my time).  Because I use tap-temperature water,
I have a 30' length counterflow chiller.  If you are going to use ice
(and keep it icy) you can get away with less.  If ever in doubt about
your length, install a valve at the outlet of your copper coil so you
can slow down the flow if the outlet is not cold enough.  A friend of
mine who uses a chiller of the type you mentioned is convinced the 10'
length he used is too short.

MOST IMPORTANT!  Before you coil any tubing, take a q-tip, dip it in
rubbing alcohol, and swab around on the inside of the tubing.  If you
get black goo on the end, you've got machining oils inside and don't
want your beer to be in contact with that.  You need to clean out the
tubing by snaking a very stiff wire through it, lubricated with lots of
dish soap.  Pull a string through the tubing, tie cotton balls on the
string and pull them back and forth to scour the inside of the tubing.
Rinse the soap out (leaving the string in) and repeat the cotton ball
exercise.

If anyone wants my plans for a counter-flow chiller, send me email.

Mike Zentner

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 08:37:48 EST
From: mlobo@sentry.foxboro.com (Michael T. Lobo)
Subject: Weinhenstephan Wheat yeast


Can anyone tell me where I can get some Weinhenstephan Wheat yeast?  My last 2
packages of Wyeast 3056 have behaved strangely, and I'd rather not waste mt time
making a wheat ale...

There is probably no need to waste HBD space on a reply, so just e-mail me at

mlobo@foxboro.com

Thanks!

Michael T. Lobo   508 549 2487
Foxboro Co.
mlobo@foxboro.com  "I Love beer, beer loves me; when I drink too much,
my beer speaks for me" -Monty


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 08:55:44 EDT
From: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall)
Subject: Culturing Sierra Nevada Dregs


Someone says:
) Rob Bradley asked about culturing Sierra Nevada dregs.  Isn't there three
) different strains involved in the fermentation, as well as three initially
) in the Wyeast 1056 pouch?  The first strain starts rapidly, but isn't
) tolerant to ethanol and settles out rapidly, and then a second strain takes
) over.  The third strain starts very slowly, but is responsible for the
) bottle conditioning.  I have heard of very slooow fermentations from
) yeast cultured from SNPA dregs, so maybe only the third strain is viable
) at that time.  Any comments?

My experience with 1056 and cultured Sierra Nevada is that they both
perform similarly (at least when neither is infected), are more attenuative
than 1098 and 1028, and generally finish more quickly than less attenuative
yeasts, particularly when the wort is dextrinous.

Even if your SNPA is a little old, you can still make a fine culture
from it.  The last one I did took several days to start up in a small
culture flask.  Fresh ones take only a day or two, or so they tell
me.  I've never seen a brand new SNPA out this way, although they
still taste just fine.  :-)

As another poster said, you must be confusing the Whitbread yeast
with SNPA/Chico/1056.  Now, what I remain confused on is whether the
real Whitbread triple strain is used in the Wyeast cultures.  My current
understanding is that it is not, that 1098 is a single strain.  I
know I've heard the answer to this several times over the past year
here, but it just doesn't sink in ... :-(

Finally, on a slightly different topic, has anyone here tried using
1084 (Irish) for purposes other than stouts and porters?  I feel like
trying it in bitter and mild ... perhaps it might make a good alt
yeast, too?

================O Fortuna, velut Luna, statu variabilis================
uunet!joebloe!joseph   (609) 273-8200 day   joseph%joebloe@uunet.uu.net
2102 Ryan's Run East        Rt 38 & 41             Maple Shade NJ 08052
Copyright 1993 by Joseph N. Hall.   Permission granted to copy and
redistribute freely over USENET and by email.  Commercial use prohibited.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 08:36:45 EDT
From: joseph@joebloe.maple-shade.nj.us (Joseph Nathan Hall)
Subject: Diastatic Power of Wheat Malt

James Dipamla writes:
) Hi All,
)
)   In HBD #1062, Scott Bickham writes:
)
) >So the Munich malt not only converted itself, but also the
) >5 lbs. of malted wheat.
)
)   I read somewhere that wheat malt itself contains sufficient enzymes
) for conversion.  Does anyone know if it does or not??

Well, I just made a crystal-clear beer with 100% (domestic) wheat malt, so I
guess the answer must be "yes."

More on this later.

================O Fortuna, velut Luna, statu variabilis================
uunet!joebloe!joseph   (609) 273-8200 day   joseph%joebloe@uunet.uu.net
2102 Ryan's Run East        Rt 38 & 41             Maple Shade NJ 08052
Copyright 1993 by Joseph N. Hall.   Permission granted to copy and
redistribute freely over USENET and by email.  Commercial use prohibited.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 7:57:30 CST
From: raudins@galt.b11.ingr.com (Glenn Raudins)
Subject: Articles on Malting Methods


  Does someone know of any articles on the current practices in the malting
  industry?  I have read the Malting & Brewing Science, and Practicle Brewer.
  I am looking for more up to date information, on current malting companies.
  I would suspect magazines such as the New Brewer, Brewers Digest, etc would
  have some.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Glenn Raudins
raudins@galt.b11.ingr.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 9:42:27 EST
From: Jim Busch <busch@daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: re:doughing in water onto malt

In the last digest Al Korz wrote:

<For the record, "doughing-in" is the addition of water to the grist
<(which is highly recommended) not vice versa.  Adding the grist to
<the strike liquor will work, but will create much more balled starch
<than the opposite (see Noonan's "Brewing Lager Beer").

This is indeed what Noonan preaches.  I have always wondered about
the importance and significance of adding water to malt as opposed
to the converse.  Ok, so one can get "balled starch", wont it then
hydrate and become "non balled"?  Cant you just stir enough to
completely mix the mash?  Since I do an upward step mash, the
protein rest provides a 30 minute hydration period for the grains.
Wont this hydrolyze the grains and liquify the starches? Also, who
has ever seen a professional brewery doing this??  All of the breweries
I can  recall visiting do what most homebrewers do, raise a volume
of water to a given temp, and add the crushed grains onto the
water.  This is one of the "Noonanisms" that I feel is rather un-
important to the overall beer quality.  THere are so many other
places for brewers to make significant improvements to quality
in brewing like malt/hops/yeast choices and even water chemistry.

Maybe I missed something somewhere....

Jim Busch


------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 27 Jan 1993 9:52:23 -0500 (EST)
From: R_GELINAS@UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: n.amine,dough-in

>From George Fix:

>The work that first showed that nitrosamine is a potential carcinogen is
>summarized in the following:

>     Environmental Aspects of N-nitroso Compounds, Proceedings of a
>     Working Conference held at the NE Center for Continuing Education,
>     Univ. of New Hampshire, 22-24 Aug. 1977, IARC Publ. No. 19 (1978)
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Coincidence?  I think not!  (look at my e-mail address).  Interesting
about the drinkers of Rauchbier.  I wonder how much their diet (other
than beer) affects their cancer rate, ie. if a lot of beta-carotene
vegetables (sauerkraut perhaps?) negates the effects of the n.amines.

>From Al:

>For the record, "doughing-in" is the addition of water to the grist
>(which is highly recommended) not vice versa.  Adding the grist to
>the strike liquor will work, but will create much more balled starch
>than the opposite (see Noonan's "Brewing Lager Beer").

Curious.  I add the grist to the liquor, and get what seems to be a fine
dough-in.  It seems to allow for better mixing -> no dry spots.  How does
Noonan determine that it creates more "balled starch"?  Just what is
"balled starch"?  Obviously I don't have the book.....

Russ G
OPAL/ESP
UNH

------------------------------

Date: 27 Jan 1993 10:18:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: KLIGERMAN@herlvx.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: nitrosamines



To continue the thread concerning nitrosoamines (specifically

N-nitrosodimethylamine), they are indeed potent carcinogens but their level in

beer is relatively small (ave. 2 ppb) compared to such products as frankfurters

(0 - 84 ppb), fish and fish products (4 - 26 ppb), cheeses (2 - 26 ppb),

and various meat products (1 to 80 ppb).   They are also found in tobacco

smoke and are produced in the human body from reactions between nitrates

and protein.  In reality, some of the more prominent carcinogens we should

worry about are tobacco smoke both main and side-stream, grilled meat and

fish products which contain potent heterocyclic amines, alcohol in excess,

mycotoxins found in moldy grain, and UV light.



Andy Kligerman

[These are of course my own opinions and do not represent those of any Agency

I may belong to.!]


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 11:36:04 -0500
From: rxh6@po.CWRU.Edu (Randall Holt)
Subject: Old trub, New wort story



Had to add my data point to the re-usable trub methodolgy.

Made a nice lager in my 50 degree basement, and decided to try
out the method of trub recycling. First I dumped the trub into
a sterile pot, and covered it, then washed and sterilized the fermenter
(I use plastic for the first stage, but only have one usable bucket).
Brewed up another batch, let cool, and pitched the wort. Okay so far.

As reported, the first stage takes off like a house afire, even at 50F,
it looked like it would be ready within 5 days to rack to secondary.

But, around the fifth day, while making my customary wort check, I noticed
that the whole basement smelled of dirty diapers. And when I stepped into
the little side room that I keep my fermenters, the smell was overpowering.

(insert sound of sinking spirits)

Well, loathe that I am to dump $20 of malt down the drain, I waited one more
day and then racked it to secondary.  And while checking the gravity, I tasted
the tube full of beer, and _no odd flavors_!  The  secondary seemed to be
clearing just fine, BUT, the odd smell persisted in the fermentation room.


To make a long story short, the ferment room is right next to the downstairs
bathroom, which we almost never use.  The p-trap in the shower had dried out,
allowing sewer gas to seep out into the ferment room through the plumbing
access hole. Running the shower for a few minutes solved the problem.

The end of the story, is that the final product, a bitter lager turned out
beautifully, and I'm convinced that re-using trub is a viable alternative
but I would recommend it only for low temperature fermentation because of
the extremely fast start.

And run your basement shower every month or so to keep the  p-trap primed.

Bibo ergo sum.

- --
Randall W. Holt         rxh6@po.cwru.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 09:41:53 -0700
From: cbacco@ursa5.cs.utah.edu (Corby Bacco)
Subject: Source for caps for Champagne bottles.

Greetings,
        I was wondering if anyone can give me a source for caps
for Champagne bottles (28 mm?).  My roommate works at a restuarant
and has been bringing home a nice supply of champagne bottles which I
would love to be able to cap.  My capper does have the proper fittings
to handle the larger caps (as well as the standard ones) so all I need
are the caps and I'm in business.  I've checked with my local shops
(all 2 of them) and with William's mail order and so far have struck out.
Any ideas?

                        Cheers,
                                Corby Bacco

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 09:08:26 PST
From: "Bob Jones" <bjones@novax.llnl.gov>
Subject: Bay area Brewoff Results

For those that like to see their name in lights, here are the winners of
the Bay area Brewoff.

Pale Ale - 32 entries

1 - Ray Call
2 - Larry & Marty
3 - Paul Marshall

IPA - 18 entries

1 - Al Branch
2 - Gerry Burke
3 - Micah Millspaw

Amber Lager - 13 entries

1 - David Sapsis
2 - John Arends
3 - Len Lemicup (sp)

Barley Wine - 10 entries

1 - Tom Altenbach
2 - Ray Call
3 - Micah Millspaw

Stout - 18 entries

1 - David Lose
2 - Kirk Ware
3 - Dave Rose

Porter - 29 entries

1 - Harry Graham
2 - Gary Burcell
3 - Scott & Siegfried Bigelow

Holiday - 31 entries

1 - John Hartman
2 - Pete Gotts
3 - John Leichel

Mead - 8 entreis

1 - Ray Call
2 - Bruce Brazil
3 - Tom Lorelle

A good time was had by all...........

Bob Jones

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 09:12:36 -0800
From: atl@kpc.com
Subject: Re: pvc v. copper



>  hey now-  anybody out there have a cooler tun using a pvc manifold instead o
f
>  copper?  positive/negative comments?  anyone?  anyone?

  I am using a six gallon Ropak bucket with a PVC manifold at the bottom for
my lauter tun.  There is a half inch adapter for PVC that screws directly into
the small spigot sold at my local brewshop.  This piece, a cross fitting,
three end caps and the 12 or so inches of PVC needed cost me a grand total of
about $2.50.  I slotted the bottom similarly to the copper coil method.  It
works fine, and seems to have improved my yields over the Zapap method.  I
attribute this to the elimination of the 1-1.5 gallon space between the two
buckets in the Zapap system.  Then again, I've only got about 6 all grain
batches under my belt :-), and experience may be what is increasing my yields.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 12:13:07 -0500
From: hosehead@acs.bu.edu (Michael Reinhorn)
Subject: Double BOck anyone???


        If anyone out thewe knows of a good recipe for a blond double
bock, I would appreciate it very much if they could post it, or send
it directly to me.  I had a very ggood sample at the Chapter HOuse in
Ithaca, so if there is anyone in the COrnell area who might have a clue
as to how to make this beer, I  would love to try to make some myself.
        Thanks to all in advance.

Cheers from BOston.

Micki Reinhorn
Hosehead@acs.bu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 16:22 GMT
From: Phillip Seitz <0004531571@mcimail.com>
Subject: And now, a beer for cats!

HBD readers might be interested in the following, which was distributed by the
Associated Press:

"Brewery Markets Energy Drink for Pets
     "Strasbourg, France: A French brewery hopes to capture the pet market
with its latest product--a non-alchoholic, high energy drink for cats and
dogs.
     "The Pecheur brewery's latest creation is made from ingredients left
over from the beer-making process and enriched with vitamins and mineral
salts, said Marc Arbogast, the brewery's technicaltechnical director.
     "The drink will be marketed in Japan. If Japanese pets give it a paws-
up, it will be introduced in France in March, then in Germany.
     "The drink comes in cartons and costs about the same as mineral water.
     "Pecheur has previously experimented with a beer containing malt whisky
and another promoted as an aphrodisiac."

I've seen what I belived is the last product mentioned, which is packaged in a
contain I could easily have mistaken for a men's cologne.

Unfortunately I can't say which paper this appeared in or on what date.  I
received this clipping from a relative.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 13:12:38 -0500
From: polstra!larryba@uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: freezing pellets, low pilsner yield

In HBD #1064 James Dipalma writes:
>
>   I use pellets exclusively, and always store them in the freezer.  Pellets
>tend to keep better than whole hops, storing them in the freezer seems to
>prolong the shelf life even further.  I've used pellets that were stored in
>this manner for 4 to 5 months, the beers came out fine, I didn't *notice*
>any funny flavors or effect on hop utilization.  On the other hand, I`ve
>read that sub-freezing temperatures can rupture the lupilin glands.
>Assuming for the moment that this is true, how much of a problem would this
>be with pellets?  IMHO, the milling and pressing processes used to make
>pellets would rupture the glands anyway.  Comments, anyone??
>
In fact, Pellet hops have all the glands ruptured by the pellitization
process.  The reason pellets are more stable is that they are highly
compresses an d that naturally excludes oxygen infiltration.  The
completely ruptured glands are the reason pellets have higher utilization
rates in the boil.
- --
Larry Barello                   uunet!polstra!larryba

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 09:55:10 -0800
From: rpeck@pure.com  (Ray Peck)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1063 (January 26, 1993)

Verify address before sending writes:
>From: bickham@msc2.msc.cornell.edu (Scott Bickham)
>Subject: COPs replies:
>
>Soon after the COPS incident was discussed here, I sent a letter to the
>local FOX station and the producers of COPS explaining that I thought
>homebrewing had been misrepresented.  Today, I received the following
>reply:

Yesterday, I got an identical reply.  Nice to know they don't waste
their time with individual letters. . .

Verite by ass.  Propaganda != Art.


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 12:28:03 CST
From: raudins@galt.b11.ingr.com (Glenn Raudins)
Subject: Hop Storage; Brewers Publications

  Re: Hop Storage

        Hopefully, with enough data, the storage loss of alpha acid can be
  fit to a nice curve for each type ( and form: pellet, whole, plug)  Anyone
  have enough data to make an approximation?


  Re: Brewers Publications

        Now, not long ago, we lost our membership discount in return for
  a wider availability of the books.  Has anyone seen the books in a book
  store or any place new since this change?  I haven't, and am wondering if
  I am the only one.  Does this mean we can go to the book store and order
  them?  What does this get us? No Shipping?


Glenn Raudins
raudins@galt.b11.ingr.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 13:05:04 CST
From: gdmcconn@mspe5.b11.ingr.com (Guy McConnell)
Subject: Central Florida brewers?

    Do we have any brewers in Central Florida (Orlando, Kissimmee, St. Cloud,
Lake Buena Vista, etc.) who read the Homebrew Digest?  If so, please contact
me via email.  Thanks!

- --
Guy McConnell  gdmcconn@mspe5.b11.ingr.com  or  b11!mspe5!gdmcconn
                  "All I need is a pint a day"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 11:45:14 cdt
From: "Knight,Jonathan G" <KNIGHTJ@AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: nitro-what?


How about this:

>>RELAX, DON'T WORRY -- HAVE SOME NITROSAMINES!<<


Works for me.....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 13:05 CST
From: korz@iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: Colour Units

Murray writes:
>I have just found a new supplier for my grain requirements who has data
>sheets on the malt available. Specifically, it mentions a colour rating
>expressed in degrees EBC as opposed to degrees LOVIBOND. What is the conversion
>factor between the two units.
>
>Also the product specification mentions the following:
>
>SPECIFICATION           PALE MALT               WHEAT MALT
>
>Colour                  2.7 degrees LOVIBOND    4.5 degrees LOVIBOND
>Total protein           eg 11.5%                14.5%
>Soluble protein         eg 5.0%                 8.5%
>Kolbach index           eg 43 (no units)        61 (no units)
>Diastatic power         70 degrees L            160 degrees L
>Viscosity               1.65 cp                 1.60 cp

I don't have a conversion, but here are some L/EBC pairs from Siebel's --
perhaps you can figure out your own conversion factor:

Lov    EBC
3.21   8
7.83   15
25.7   55
7.87   15
21.65  45
77.5   155
221    500
22.5   55
497.5  1100
557.5  1400
601    1400

Looks slightly non-linear at the ends, but roughly 1:2 in the middle.

Regarding the quality of this malt, I'd say it's quite good.  To compare,
the DeWolf-Cosyns Pale Ale Malt is:

3.21 degrees Lovibond
10.00% total protein
3.94% soluble protein
60 degrees Lintner (diastatic power)

Schreier 2-row Brewer's Malt is:

1.78 degrees Lovibond
12.4% total protein
5.10% soluble protein
131 degrees Lintner

Al.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:26:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Peter Maxwell <peterm@aoraki.dtc.hp.com>
Subject: re-using yeast in fermenter

Ron Karwoski writes about his experiences in pouring new wort over existing
yeast in the fermenter.  My questions relate to doing the same thing with
the secondary fermenter:

1.  If the secondary has been sitting a while (say a week or two) is the
sediment still viable yeast?

2.  After I've racked off for bottling, how long could I safely leave the
remnants?  I thought of just putting back the airlock and leaving it
untouched until the next brew.

3.  If I do 2 above, will it be necessary to "start" the yeast by adding a
small amount of sterile wort as per WYEAST starters?

        Peter

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:04:10 EST
From: hmcook@boe00.minc.umd.edu (Hardy M. Cook)
Subject: Yeast Culturing Questions


I'm a new reader of HBD, and some recent discussions about culturing yeast
prompt me to ask a few questions.  I started culturing yeasts a few weeks ago.
I began with an ale and a lager strain that I purchased in slants from the
mail order supply store I use.  I then had a microbiologist make me slants and
petri dishes of solidified worts as per Paul Farnsworth's culturing article in
the ZYMURGY Yeast and Beer Special Issue.  I inoculated two petri dishes with
these strains, but of course I didn't want to stop there.

Next, I took the sediment from a Trippel I had brewed using Wyeast #1214
(Belgium Ale), cultured it, and inoculated another petri dish.

Then, I brewed a lager with a Whitbread Dry Lager Yeast and an ale with a
Whitbread Dry Ale Yeast.  I first inoculated slants from the starter cultures
I had made by rehydrating these two in sterile wort.  I had inoculated slants
of the other three strains too, but all five of these slants were not as
solidified as the petri dishes and I did not like what saw, so I disposed of
them.  I still, however, wanted cultures of the two Whitbread varieties, so I
inoculated petri dishes from the slurry I collected after the primary
fermentation.

I also inoculated a petri dish from a starter culture I made from a Dry Edme
Ale Yeast.

Now, my questions.

Concerning the Belgian Ale Yeast from the Trippel, what are the chances that
it has mutated or was a multiple-strain yeast?  (I am currently making a
starter culture to use over the weekend.)

Are the Whitbread's Dry Ale and/or Lager Yeasts triple-strain yeasts, and if
they are, does that mean that I have cultured only the third strain because I
used the slurry from the primary fermentation?

Is there anything I should know about the Dry Edme I cultured?

I would appreciate any response from those more experienced than I in yeast
culturing.

Thanks,

Hardy M. Cook
HMCook@boe00.minc.umd.edu

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 20:04:43 -0500
From: bradley@adx.adelphi.edu (Rob Bradley)
Subject: turpentine/solvents

Scott in #218:
>...
>because it tasted and smelled like turpentine.
>...
>Question:  Will these fusel alcohols/solvents diminish with time?

Al in #219:
>It's not a failure.  The higher alcohols will definately diminish with
>time and the beer will become fruitier and more complex.  Wait at least
>4 months but it could take a year -- don't worry... the alcohol level
>will keep nasties at bay.
Al.

I disagree.  Let me be more specific: what Al says about higher alcohols
may well be true.  We don't really know what's wrong with Scott's beer.
I have, however, on three or so occasions over the years had awful,
unexplained (unexplainable?) solvent tastes/smells.  Similar to the
problem that JS mentioned in the Goose Island Barleywine (I tasted
the stuff in early January and agree (!!) with arf) in today's HBD,
but more pronounced.  In my private lexicon, this solvent taste is
"clinical".  I posted about it in the HBD in 1989, wondering about
possible connections with diacytel (consensus: no connection) and how
to avoid it (be careful with fermentation temperature and cleanliness,
I seem to recall).

At any rate, I twice bottled such beer, and the solvent never went
away, not even after a year.  It got worse, in fact, as the other
flavors mellowed.

So keep us posted, Scott.

Cheers,

Rob (bradley@adx.adelphi.edu)

------------------------------


End of HOMEBREW Digest #1065, 01/28/93
*************************************
-------

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing