HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gavrila@imhfhp16.epfl.ch (Spyros Gavrilakis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Europe accuses Turkey
Date: 23 Dec 92 08:15:48 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne


<<In Turkish prisons, torture continues : The practice of
torture and other forms of grave maltreatment of persons detained
by the police, remains widespread in Turkey, affirmed Monday
the European Committee for the prevention of torture (CPT), an
organization set up by the European Council.
<<The torture and other forms of maltreatment are used by the
police "both against suspects of the common law and detainees
under the anti-terrorist lagislation", underlined the CPT in a
"Public declaration relative to Turkey".
<<This declaretion was made after three visits to Turkey by a CPT
delegation between Sep. 90 and end of Nov. 92.>>
(LNQ)

-------------

sg
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: HELP WITH TYPING GREEK O
Date: 22 Dec 92 18:44:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-8298v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 


>
>Does anyone have a list of set rules for typing Greek words in English
>phonetics translation?  I've noticed that many of you are submitting
>articles using phonetic equivalents.  Is there a standard that you are
>all using?  I'm just learning the language and I think reading and
>writing Greek on the net could help.  I have a few books that give
>their versions of the phonetics, but don't you think we should all try
>to use the same translation?  Ellinika einai ena oraia glossa!! but how
>to spell it out in English is quite a problem!!!  Help!

 The greeks call it 'frankolebantinika', writing Greek with latin
("french") characters.

I type the alphabet as:
ABGDEZHQIKLMNJOPRSTYFXCW

This is a visual, rather than a phonetic correspondence. Most Greeks on
this board do the same, though almost everyone chooses a different way
to represent Theta, Ksi and Psi.

Welcome to the club!

Michael
                                                                                                                         
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:11774 talk.politics.misc:65184
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,bit.listerv.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Macedonian World Congress
Date: 22 Dec 92 18:58:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-8298v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 



SAS Writes:
> 3) Macedonian was never a region of Greece. On the contrary, Greece
>    was often subject to Macedonia. In 1913, Greece and her Balkan
>    allies partitioned Macedonia, and if today a portion of
>    Macedonian belongs to Greece, it is by virtue of an illegal
                                                         ~~~~~~~
>    partition of the whole and occupation of a part of Macedonia.
     ~~~~~~~~~                  ~~~~~~~~~~


  So much for the claim by some that pseudo-"Macedonia" has no
territorial claims against Greece. All this talk of 'occupation' of
Macedonia by Greece is made for only one reason: To support claims
against Greece in the future.


Michael
                                                                                                  
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:11815 sci.classics:1185
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,sci.classics
Subject: Re: Pronounciation of Greek names...
Date: 22 Dec 92 23:20:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-8298v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 



Gregory Dandulakis Writes:
GD>MP>
GD>MP>Only recently did Greeks realise what a terrible waste of
GD>MP>valuable cultural resources that was.
GD>
GD> Resources yes, but valuable? I doubt.
GD>
GD>When I was visiting my mother's village (Fourfouras village,
GD>Amarion eparchy, Psiloritis mountain, Crete)
GD>there was NO way that I could understand what my uncle George

 I agree that there needs to be a common language across the country,
for practical reasons like the one you mentioned.

 What I am complaining about is:

1. There was no effort to study and record these languages. Where
some research was made (with the Tsakones, for example), dialects were
found that were completely identical to the corresponding ancient Greek
dialects for those regions. Having records of these dialects would
provide us with valuable information about ancient and byzantine Greek.

2. Ditto for all the regional literature of these areas. Along with
these dialects, we also tossed away volumes of oral tradition. Again,
where ever research was made, the knowledge gained was tremendous. By
the time the Greek state woke up to what had happened, and started
funding research projects, many papoudes and giagiades had died, and
with them many stories that the younger generation did not learn because
anything said in a village dialect was considered 'unimportant' and
'uncultured'. The end result was the same as if though thousands of
books had been burned.

  In all fairness, it is hard to blame anyone for what happened. With
Greece badly underdeveloped in the 1920s, the big restructuring of
education, which became totally centralised after WWII, was nescessary.
Back then development was the only priority, and the funds for research
were not available.


Michael
                                                                   
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: Chrys Pelegris <chrysp@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: MILS?!
X-To: ALL
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 17:06:57 GMT

Hmm.. maybe its a problem on my end, but I don't think so.

Did anyone bomb MILS headquarters or something?  I've been waiting for the
lastest Skopjian propaganda, for weeks now, nothing.

Its like taking the comics section away from the newspaper, I want MILS
back!

Either send your responses in email or publically, publically would be better
because I'm sure other people are wondering the same thing..

Sigh..

  --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Chrys Pelegris  |  ===__-+-                          WWIVNet:35@4650
    Toronto Canada  | Internet: chrysp@zooid.guild.org   FidoNet: *N/A*
---
 * SLMR 2.1a * "I drank what?!?" * Socrates
From: sparangi@aludra.usc.edu (Themistocles Sparangis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Help for the Univ.Thessaloniki address
Date: 21 Dec 1992 17:50:58 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

If you see the previous posting (17667) I gave some directions on how
I contacted the University Of Thessaloniki.  I hope it helps!

Themistocles Sparangis
USC
From: sparangi@aludra.usc.edu (Themistocles Sparangis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: U of Thessaloniki
Date: 21 Dec 1992 22:54:08 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

0a mporeis na stileis EMAIL ston...

Dimitris Mitrakos (system operator) h POSTMASTER...

MITRAKOS@ALIAKMON.CPERI.FORTH.GR H POSTMASTER@ALIAKMON.CPERI.FORTH.GR

Kala Xristougenna!

Themistocles Sparangis
USC
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: : MACEDONIAN NATI
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 01:28:49 GMT

sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:

>If you have been following this discussion properly, you know very
>well that Macedonian schools clearly teach their pupils that Ancient
>and Slavic Maceodnians are not related. As for the SAS postings, they
     ^^^^^^
>come from different sources, including some funny nutheads in Australia.

 Aha! You got it better this time; Slavic Macedonians, not just Macedonians.

>-- 
>Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
>Jag gav en k{ck tjeck en check.

 Panos Tamamidis
From: v999saum@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Varnavas A. Lambrou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: INVASION 1974 cont...
Date: 22 Dec 92 02:06:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

SEGREGATION OF THE POPULATION

For years before the invasion, Turkish governments and others favouring
the partition of Cyprus had propounded the cynical opinion that "Greeks
and Turks cannot live together". This ignorant and racist view was
propounded as the mental equivalent of partition. After the invasion the
Turkish Government had the opportunity to segregate the population of Cyprus
according to its ethnic origins. In South Africa apartheid and the spatial
segregation of the black population into Bantustans was necessary for the 
dominance of the white minority over the black majority. In Cyprus the
establishment of spatial segregation between the Greek Cypriot majority (82%
of the population) and the Turkish Cypriot minority (18% of the population)
was deemed by the Turkish Government a necessary prelude to asserting the 
"equality" of the two communities, a step towards the domination of Cyprus by 
Turkey.

The fact is that for centuries Greek and Turkish Cypriots people had lived
interspersed in the towns and villages of the island. This for Attila was a
demographic barrier to partition.

Some 10 years before 1974 invasion a secret Turkish organization, TMT, had
tried to segregate the Turkish Cypriots in enclaves. After the invasion, all
Turkish Cypriots were forced to move into the area occupied by Turkish troops.

Presure from TMT, threats of the Turkish army to move to wherever Turkish
Cypriots lived, the desire to reunite with family members, forced Turkish
Cypriots to move from their homes in many parts of Cyprus, albeit very 
reluctantly, to the Turkish occupied area by the end of 1975.


"In Paphos today, where some 500 Turkish Cypriots were being transferred
to the north, the main square resounded with the sobbing and wailing of 
elderly women abandoning their homes after a lifetime. Greek and Turkish
Cypriots mingled easily with no apparent hostility toward each other. Many
of the departing Turkish Cypriots handed over the keys of their houses
to the Greek Cypriot refugees, with apparent pleasure, "to look after them
well", as one said."
		Washington Post 11 August, 1975
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:11754 soc.culture.europe:10696 soc.culture.bulgaria:1985 soc.culture.soviet:11403
From: hilmi-er@andy.enet.dec.com (Hilmi Eren)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.bulgaria,soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Serdar's admirer!!! (Re: Merry Christmas, Argic)
Date: 22 Dec 92 14:22:43 GMT
Reply-To: hilmi-er@andy.enet.dec.com (Hilmi Eren)
Organization: Stockholm University


In article <BznuJL.AqE@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>, dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning) writes:
|>Xref: kth.se soc.culture.greek:15051 soc.culture.europe:14931 soc.culture.bulgaria:1931 soc.culture.soviet:13290
|>Path: kth.se!sunic!mcsun!uknet!glasgow!dam
|>From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
|>Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.bulgaria,soc.culture.soviet
|>Subject: Re: Serdar's admirer!!! (Re: Merry Christmas, Argic)
|>Message-ID: <BznuJL.AqE@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>
|>Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 13:26:08 MET
|>References: <724624952@locust.cs.duke.edu> <1992Dec20.224612.5721@bmerh85.bnr.ca> <schoinas.725008240@cs.wisc.edu> <1992Dec22.115035.21138@kth.se>
|>Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.
|>Lines: 31

|>David Morning writes:

|>>hilmi-er@tess.enet.dec.com writes:

|>>|>Yannis Schoinas writes:
|>
|>>|>>faruk@bcars6f5.BNR.CA (Faruk od Bosne) writes:
|>
|>[Expressing 'admiration' of Argic]
|>
|>
|>>|>Yes, it is Christmas and it's this time of the year that miracles do
|>>|>happen. And even Serdar Argic, the most despised net persona, the lover 
|>>|>of the kill files, the (in)famous broken AI program, has found an admirer.
|>>|>Days of magic and grace,:-).
|>>|>
|>>|>Perhaps, I should get Serdar out of my kill file these loving days. Don't 
|>>|>you think that I was too mean to have kept him there for so long?
|>>|>
|>>|>					Enjoy the holidays,
|>>|>					     Yannis.
|>>|>
|>>|>ps: Faruk, you were kidding, right?
|>> 
|>>PS2: No, i think he was not kidding, and i agree with him.
|>>     If you don't have anything sensible to say then shut up!
|>
|>What you think Mutlu ^H^H^H^H^HCosar^H^H^H^H^HArgic has something sensible
|>to say??? Wow!! WOnders will never cease!!
|>
|>I think Yannis had something sensible to say, so why don't YOU shut up!
|>
    If you really think so, then where is *your* argumentation? 
    I forgot, as usual you have none, please don't waste your time
    to write stupid things  like :"WOW, and ^H^H^H^H^..... 
    If you have the least sensible thing to say then i'm listening, else  
    you should SHUT up too.




Hilmi Eren
Stockholm University
Sweden
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: How typical (and pathetic) are the sources Skopjians use
Date: 3 Jan 93 15:38:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-8298v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 


Erland Sommarskog writes:
>Michael Polymenakos (michael.polymenakos@factory.com) writes:
>> In 1900, your description of Macedonia would have been accurate,
>>because Macedonians were living in great numbers across Vardar and
>>Pirin. In many cities of today's Vardar and Buglaria (like Bitola
>>(Monastiri) and Plondiv (Phillipoupolis)) Greeks outnumbered Slavs by
>>a wide margin. There were sizable Greek communities as north as
>>Kosovo.

>So if the geographical region of Macedonia covered today's Repulic
>of Macedonia in 1900, isn't likely to have done so in 1930 and likely
>to do so in 1993 too? Geographical regions tends to be constant over
>time.

 BZZZT! WRONG! "Macedonia" is more than a geographical term, it is the
land inhabited by the Macedonian people.

 Look at your 1930's map? What are the borders of the land known as
"Poland"? Would you not agree that since then the region known as Poland
has shifted somewhat to the West? Can Belarus call itself "Poland"
today? Poland is where the Poles live. Macedonia is where the
Macedonians live. Macedonia is the northmost province of Greece.

>You seem to equate "Macedonians" = "Greek" in the above paragraph.

 I "seem to"? What an understatement.

>>Can Vardar name itself "Macedonia"?
>Can a river call itself anything?

 Well, Vardar was called just that between 1913-1945. In fact it is the
river that takes it's name from the region, not the opposite. The Greeks
call the Vardar river "Axios", but still refer to north winds as
"Vardarides" (Coming from Vardar).

Michael
                  
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:11752 soc.culture.europe:10692 soc.culture.bulgaria:1984 soc.culture.soviet:11398
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.bulgaria,soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Serdar's admirer!!! (Re: Merry Christmas, Argic)
Date: 22 Dec 92 12:26:08 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

hilmi-er@tess.enet.dec.com (Hilmi Eren) writes:

>|>Yannis Schoinas writes:

>|>>faruk@bcars6f5.BNR.CA (Faruk od Bosne) writes:

[Expressing 'admiration' of Argic]


>|>Yes, it is Christmas and it's this time of the year that miracles do
>|>happen. And even Serdar Argic, the most despised net persona, the lover 
>|>of the kill files, the (in)famous broken AI program, has found an admirer.
>|>Days of magic and grace,:-).
>|>
>|>Perhaps, I should get Serdar out of my kill file these loving days. Don't 
>|>you think that I was too mean to have kept him there for so long?
>|>
>|>					Enjoy the holidays,
>|>					     Yannis.
>|>
>|>ps: Faruk, you were kidding, right?
> 
>PS2: No, i think he was not kidding, and i agree with him.
>     If you don't have anything sensible to say then shut up!

What you think Mutlu ^H^H^H^H^HCosar^H^H^H^H^HArgic has something sensible
to say??? Wow!! WOnders will never cease!!

I think Yannis had something sensible to say, so why don't YOU shut up!

--
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Serdar's admirer!!! (Re: Merry Christmas, Argic)
Date: 22 Dec 1992 14:20:28 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

King Palik (Sorry Panos, I just have this vision of you on a Throne :-) writes:
>  I bet she does have a lot of respect for Arxid.  After all, this is the
>  so called pezeveng rationale. You "take it or leave it." 
 
Opws dhladh leme kai emeis, 

"ton pairnei h den ton pairnei"

Ouch! 

Spiros

Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:11895 soc.culture.yugoslavia:10286 soc.culture.europe:10825
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe
Subject: How typical (and pathetic) are the sources that they use
Date: 27 Dec 92 12:45:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-8298v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 


ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis ) writes:
>sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
>>And I can point you to a map from an Italian encyclopedica from around
>>1930 where not only the entire present-day Republic of Macedonia is
>>in- cluded in their delineation of Macedonia, but also a slice of what
>is Kosovo today. (Or, tragically, what used to be Kosovo.)
>
> Could you be more specific, please? Which encyclopedia are you talking
> about?

 Considering who was in charge of Italy in the 1930's, what his
territorial ambitions where, and what his attitude was towards freedom
of the press, I would not be suprised if _every_ Italian encyclopaedia
from the 1930's has the exact same map.

 How typical of the defenders of Skopjian interests to base their
case on sources originating from totalitarian regimes (Tito, Mussolini,
the pro-hitler regime of WWII Bulgaria, Nazism's prophet Falmerrayer,
etc.)

Michael

MUTLU FODDER LINE 1: Turkey in the straw, straw, turkey in the straw...
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Re : Macedonian Nationality
Date: 26 Dec 92 14:44:56 GMT
Organization: Enea Data AB

ANDROUTSOS DIMITRIOS (androut@ecf.toronto.edu) writes:
>You say that Ancient Macedonians were neither Greek nor Slavic.  How come then
>the Slavic people of Skopje claim to be direct descendants?

Well, generally they don't.
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
Jag gav en k{ck tjeck en check.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:11751 sci.classics:1183
From: cla02@keele.ac.uk (R. Wallace)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,sci.classics
Subject: Re: Pronounciation of Greek names...
Date: 22 Dec 92 11:50:42 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

R. Wallace (cla02@keele.ac.uk) wrote:
: 
: Anyway, none of this is relevant, because they did use a version of the
: Chalcidian alphabet in Cumae. I think the Chalcidian alphabet is
: classified as a Western alphabet, isn't it? Perhaps somebody in this
: group who can get to their university library without a long walk in the
: freezing cold might check in one of the standard works on the Greek
: alphabet (hint!). 
: 
: Richard Wallace

OK, I've gone myself! It was pretty cold, too.

Yes, I was right (natch). Chalcidian is a Western alphabet; the term of
course isn't really geopgraphic, except I suppose originally.

Try David Diringers 'The Alphabet' (3rd edition I think) for more.

Richard Wallace
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:11809 soc.culture.europe:10741 soc.culture.bulgaria:2004 soc.culture.soviet:11462
From: hilmi-er@andy.enet.dec.com (Hilmi Eren)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.bulgaria,soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Serdar's admirer!!! (Re: Merry Christmas, Argic)
Date: 23 Dec 92 11:38:22 GMT
Reply-To: hilmi-er@andy.enet.dec.com (Hilmi Eren)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


|> David Morning writes:

|>hilmi-er@andy.enet.dec.com (Hilmi Eren) writes:
|>
|>
|>>In article <BznuJL.AqE@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>, dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning) writes:
|>
|>>|>David Morning writes:
|>>|>>hilmi-er@tess.enet.dec.com writes:
|>>|>>|>Yannis Schoinas writes:
|>>|>>|>>faruk@bcars6f5.BNR.CA (Faruk od Bosne) writes:
|>>|>
|>>|>[Expressing 'admiration' of Argic]
|>>|>
|>>|>
|>>|>>|>Yes, it is Christmas and it's this time of the year that miracles do
|>>|>>|>happen. And even Serdar Argic, the most despised net persona, the lover 
|>>|>>|>of the kill files, the (in)famous broken AI program, has found an admirer.
|>>|>>|>Days of magic and grace,:-).
|>>|>>|>
|>>|>>|>Perhaps, I should get Serdar out of my kill file these loving days. Don't 
|>>|>>|>you think that I was too mean to have kept him there for so long?
|>>|>>|>
|>>|>>|>					Enjoy the holidays,
|>>|>>|>					     Yannis.
|>>|>>|>
|>>|>>|>ps: Faruk, you were kidding, right?
|>>|>> 
|>>|>>PS2: No, i think he was not kidding, and i agree with him.
|>>|>>     If you don't have anything sensible to say then shut up!
|>>|>
|>>|>What you think Mutlu ^H^H^H^H^HCosar^H^H^H^H^HArgic has something sensible
|>>|>to say??? Wow!! WOnders will never cease!!
|>>|>
|>>|>I think Yannis had something sensible to say, so why don't YOU shut up!
|>>|>
|>>    If you really think so, then where is *your* argumentation? 
|>
|>Yes I do think so, Mutlu is full of crap - simple as that.

	+Like i said- no argumentation at all...a childish answer:
	+"Yes I do think so, Mutlu is full of crap - simple as that." =
	+like a child saying to it's mother-"I just want that ice-cream!!",
	+Can't you answer why?

|>>    I forgot, as usual you have none, please don't waste your time
|>>    to write stupid things  like :"WOW, and ^H^H^H^H^..... 
|>
|>So why are you posting stupid little comments like the one you opened up with
|>then hmmm?
	
	+Is it more stupid than : "WOW, and ^H^H^H^H^....????


|>>    If you have the least sensible thing to say then i'm listening, else  
|>>    you should SHUT up too.
|>
|>Oh I do beg your pardon, I didn't realise we needed your permission to post to
|>Usenet. Silly me. Why don't you tell Mutlu to stop wasting his own and
|>other people's time by not posting stupid little comments?
|>..and why don't you do likewise, or do it via e-mail like everyone else?
	
	+I didn't say anything about needing permission from me...you said that...
	+i said to you to "shut up" if you don't have  any argumentation, else 
	+i said i'm listening (read above).......This net doesn't need childish
	+postings  from persons like you! Sorry? I'm using e-mail not Indian smoke...

|>Dave

+ Hilmi Eren
+ Stockholm University
+ Sweden
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.soviet