HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: c8922369@jupiter.newcastle.edu.au (Leon James Garde)
Subject: Re: Wanted: Unused PDP-8?
Organization: Uni of Newcastle, Australia
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 09:33:13 GMT

mdw@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Matt Welsh) writes:

>I know this sounds crazy, but I'm wondering if someone out there
>has an unwanted/unloved machine in the PDP-8 line that they'd like
>to give a happy home (namely, to me), or sell. There must be one

What sounded crazier, is that the subject line could have been interpreted
as ....

wanted:  NEVER used pdp-8 ?


ask around a few government departments for those, Id say !

leon
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.folklore.computers,misc.forsale.computers
From: rl@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (roger.h.levy)
Subject: Re: Wanted: Unused PDP-8?
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 10:47:38 GMT
Followup-To: poster

In article <1992Oct5.234213.4863@news.columbia.edu>, lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
> In article <1992Oct5.170334.12874@tc.cornell.edu> mdw@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Matt Welsh) writes:
> >I know this sounds crazy, but I'm wondering if someone out there
> >has an unwanted/unloved machine in the PDP-8 line that they'd like
> >to give a happy home (namely, to me), or sell. There must be one
> >out there, somewhere, sitting in someone's machine room or attic,
> 
> For any "serious" PDP-8 enthusiast, there is quite a lot of help out there,
> 
> ...  However, if the request is really just an attempt to get the
> ability to program the architecture on some basis, and not to get a hands-on
> experience with the machine, the use of a simulator is recommended.

I am quite sure that at one time there was a microprocessor that fully
emulated the PDP-8.  Is there still a supply of these chips?
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8
From: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Subject: Re: any SKED users out there?
Reply-To: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 27 Sep 92 05:05:16 GMT

Charles Lasner writes:
> There's a world of difference between caring about 10's of
> microseconds versus 10's of milliseconds.

You bet.  But not to recording behavior of intact
organisms. That's what SKED was designed for.
10 millisecond resolution was what its applications
needed and what it gave.

Realtime isn't notably "do this as fast as you can".
It's "do this and guarantee you will complete within
time T".  Sometimes T is measured in milliseconds, 
sometimes microseconds, nanoseconds, or hours.

> A lot of ornate programming is needed to get the
> performance out of the machine that it's capable of.

True.  But ornate can also mean impossible to validate.
SKED had advantages to those who wanted to write a
variety of nontrivial realtime programs and have
confidence that they were correct.

SKED's "tick" was configurable, by the way.  The default
was 10 msec, but you could set it as low as 1 msec (on
8's) or as high as you wanted and run more stations.

-- Jon
--
Jon Krueger  jpk@ingres.com  
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.folklore.computers
From: rbp@netcom.com (Bob Pasker)
Subject: Re: Flip-Chips (was Re: FAQ)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 03:23:16 GMT

lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:
>Logic Handbooks.  There was a singular "transition" publication which is
>essentially the precursor to the entire family of Logic Handbooks that 
>discusses Flip-Chip modules; it's a 1964 Flip-Chip Handbook and is of the
>same quality.  Because the paper quality is so much better, it has not yellowed
>and the thick paper stock binding hasn't broken.  The one year or more newer
>Logic Handbooks have all since deteriorated severely :-(.

-- 
--- bob pasker
---- rbp@netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.folklore.computers,misc.forsale.computers
From: mdw@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Wanted: Unused PDP-8?
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:03:34 GMT

I know this sounds crazy, but I'm wondering if someone out there
has an unwanted/unloved machine in the PDP-8 line that they'd like
to give a happy home (namely, to me), or sell. There must be one
out there, somewhere, sitting in someone's machine room or attic,
collecting dust-- if so, send me email and I'll see what I can do
about getting it off of your hands. :) The actual model probably
isn't important-- I'm just looking for one of these machines to
bang around on for a while.

Thanks for any help.

mdw

-- 
Matt Welsh    mdw@tc.cornell.edu        +1 607 253 2737
Systems Programmer, Cornell Theory Center
  "Yow! Up ahead! It's a DONUT HUT!!"
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8
From: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Subject: Re: any SKED users out there?
Reply-To: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 05:42:10 GMT

I may have a SKED manual somewhere, but I never used it, because the real-time
stuff I had to do outclassed SKED, and the non-real-time isn't what SKED is
for.

SKED really doesn't give you much of a PDP-8-specific viewpoint; it could have
been written for about anything, but just happened to be an early -8 program
that was available for a limited audience that could make use of it.

A lot of PDP-8 users really expected that off-the-shelf software was going to
somehow do what they wanted.  Much of my work was based upon fixing up for the
mistakes of that notion, etc.

cjl

Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.folklore.computers
From: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879)
Subject: Re: Flip-Chips (was Re: FAQ)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:08:16 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

> But if you look at the early literature, such as the somewhat hyped
> pictures in the early Logic Handbooks, etc., it's clear that they are
> intending to focus in on DEC's "high-tech" production capabilities of
> Flip-Chips, and to take the focus away from the ordinary techniques
> that DEC, as a module maker, used to produce modules no better or worse
> than a dozen other module houses.

Yes.  The loose-leaf notebook "Digitial Flip-Chip Modules, First Revision,
July 1965, C-105 7/65" is full of such hype.  They have nice photos of
such things as hand-assembly of hybrid circuit modules -- from a modern
semiconductor manufacturing perspective, it's really quite quaint!

> BTW, I have a relatively rare publication about Flip-Chips.

I think I just cited the second edition of the same publication!  It's a
pity that DEC didn't stick to this format, because it's refreshing to see
old DEC documentation that's not yet yellowed and crumbling!  Is there a
need for a tutorial on how to rescue old manuals when they reach this state?
I've done reprints of one DEC handbook on archival paper, and I'm willing
to share the art!
					Doug Jones
					jones@cs.uiowa.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8
From: jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879)
Subject: Re: Flip-Chips (was Re: FAQ)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:47:02 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

From article <1992Oct5.075414.18772@news.columbia.edu>,
by lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner):
> 
> In any case, the Flip-Chip notion is a legend in itself.  For some reason,
> undue emphasis is given to a detail of the implementation of some module
> series, mostly R-series, but S and probably B as well *might* have this.

There's another side to this legend, though.  Originally, in the 1965 era,
the word flip-chip was a reference to the hybrid integrated circuits DEC
was trying to use.  By the end of the decade, though, DEC was assertively
referring to the logic modules themselves as flip chips.  Thus, every M
series logic module I've got seems to say FLIP CHIP across the top of the
module right under the handle (except the M211, which says DEC FLIP CHIP).
It seems clear that by 1970, DEC wanted people to call the modules
themselves flip chips.

On another topic, IBM, with the introduction of the IBM System 360 in 1965,
declared the birth of the third generation of computers.  (The number 360
was a marketing ploy in itself, standing for "a third generation machine
for the 1960's"; that's why they had to renumber to 370 when the new decade
came.)

IBM said that third generation machines were characterized by integrated
circuits, but the System 360 only had hybrid integrated circuits, not
monolithic circuits.  By this standard, the Classic PDP-8 could be called
a third generation machine!
				Doug Jones
				jones@cs.uiowa.edu
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: Mr. CERN
Summary: STOP PANDERING
Organization: The Great Beast 666
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 11:55:52 GMT

Capuano, I forgot - seems he asked me for something, I've been away in
soc.bi doing other things. Fellow in CERN gets a copy of the book I
mentioned - it's out of print so I have to copy it.

Capuano can repost his chart info to me privately.

Since this BULLSHIT has been going on for two weeks - ? that I've been away?
I have yet to get to the end of the letters, but I have little doubt (faith)
where things will end up by the end . . .
Mr. CERN is NOT interested in learning anything; if he had been,
he would have looked into my arguments trying to understand my position,
rather than ignoring what he couldn't refute.

The group has the right to ignore the jerk and get on with life.
PUT HIM IN A KILLFILE please. DO NOT FALL for this "you have to prove
this to me *personally*" bullshit.

I am very busy now. Those who want my attention, please address posts
to me personally - Mr. CERN excepted until he replies that he has read
what I have sent him (*honestly*) - I have about a two-week duty cycle
even to ENTER this group. The copy will be sent within 7 days of this date.
At my fucking expense.

It is a subjective, occult art/science. Mr. CERN is blind yet asking for a
description of 'red' versus 'green' - please PUT HIM IN YOUR KILLFILE.

Wiser people than I came to this conclusion many posts before I did.
When I describe the Mr. CERN phenomenon to coworkers, they say he is
looking for attention. This is ALT.ASTROLOGY, not
ALT.CATER.TO.ASSHOLES.SAPPING.BANDWIDTH
so I suggest we get on with what *most* of us would rather do.
Answer those sincerely asking for confirmation and taking *your* word
for what you do. Those who deny *your* perceptions without knowing them
are UN-SELF-AWARE PINHEADS.

Sorry for the very *hot* flames, I'm just ticked seeing others trying to
deal with someone who does not play fair. Do you want to practice astrology?
So let's get on with it. I have seen no other group so harassed by ONE person.

Let's get on with the VERY SPECIFIC subject of the group; let Mr. CERN
go to alt.skeptic where he belongs, where he can get all the *hugs* he wants.

CHEERS.
-ecsd
From: s0xjg@exnet.co.uk (Xavier Gallagher)
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
Subject: Re: Full Moon
Date: 27 Sep 92 22:49:45 GMT
Organization: ExNet Systems Ltd Public Access News, London, UK

In article <27SEP199218112277@vxcrna.cern.ch> casper@vxcrna.cern.ch (CASPER,DAVI./PPE) writes:
>In article <Bv8qs9.IsI@ddsw1.mcs.com>, eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun) writes...
>
>>What? have you not noticed the reaction of people on a full moon? Go to an
>>emergency room of your local hospital and ask. You'll find a strange reaction
>>on the human race during that time. A coincidence is once but not on a regular 
>>basis. 
>
>I think this is another example of the human tendency to find false
>correlations: when a bad night happens during the full moon, it is the full
>moon's fault, but when it happens during some other time, it is just a
>bad night.
>
>
>Dave

My family and freinds families have all worked in a psychiatric hospital
hospital for years.  They uniformly swear to the effects of a full moon.
However they blame the fact that nights of the full moon are a lot brighter
than other nights thus allowing the patients to see and be (therefore) more
active.

It seems a reasonable suggestion.

Xave
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Full Moon and Moon void of Course
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 07:31:27 GMT

s0xjg@exnet.co.uk (Xavier Gallagher) writes:
>
>My family and freinds families have all worked in a psychiatric hospital
>hospital for years.  They uniformly swear to the effects of a full moon.
>However they blame the fact that nights of the full moon are a lot brighter
>than other nights thus allowing the patients to see and be (therefore) more
>active.
>
>It seems a reasonable suggestion.
>
>Xave

When I am out in traffic, and people seem unusally random - suddenly changing
minds to end up making a left turn from the right lane, not seeming to know
where they want to go, confusion, similar mindlessness, quite often I've
found the Moon is void of course.

A full Moon opposed my Sun marks a general period of craziness for me.
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
From: "william sweeney" <william.sweeney@canrem.com>
Subject: astrology
Reply-To: "william sweeney" <william.sweeney@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: alt
Date: 3 Oct 92 10:29:26 EST

IS THAT EDGAR CASE UNIV,LINDA. I'M AN ASTROLOGIST & I WELCOME ALL
QUESTIONS & CRITITISM. YOU ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK, LINDA. BELIEVEE YOUR
SELF. DON'NT LISTEN TO SKEPTICS
BILL. MISSISSAUGA,ONT.1-416-607-5897.
S
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: alt.astrology,talk.religion.newage
From: casper@vxcrna.cern.ch (CASPER,DAVI./PPE)
Subject: Re: How astrology works (was Re: Simpering Sophists (was ...))
Summary: Theosophical excerpts
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: Divine Logos
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 13:42:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.234654.7627@u.washington.edu>, astrolog@byron.u.washington.edu (Astrolog) writes...
> 
>Therefore I'm posting a description of some of the various
>metaphysical realities of our solar system below. 

>     "The whole of our solar system is a manifestation of its Logos,
>and every particle in it is definitely part of His vehicles. All the
>physical matter of the solar system taken as a totality consitiutes
>His physical body; all the astral matter within it constitues His
>astral body; all the mental matter, His mental body, and so on.

Gee, you mean the world isn't balanced on the back of a turtle on the back of
a turtle on the back of a turtle on the back of, well, you get the picture...
I guess everything I learned back at the Ashram was just bunk.

It was nice of Mr. Leadbeater to share this information with us.  I wonder
though:

1) How he came to learn this secret information and
2) What evidence we have for it other than Mr. Leadbeater's word.


Dave

Newsgroups: alt.astrology
From: ch981@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Tony Alicea)
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
Subject: Re: zodiac constellation
Date: 4 Oct 1992 21:13:11 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ch981@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Tony Alicea)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, jim.kane@canrem.com ("jim kane") says:
>
>   I beg to differ. Although there are small school of astrologers,
>   especially in Germany, who do'nt use the signs in interpretation,
>
>
A small but powerful & knowledgeable: COSMOBIOLOGY. I've been with it
far a *long* time. I am convinced that 'planetary pictures' and
midpoints convey as much if not *more* insight into an interpretation
of a chart... Ah, yes, I forgot Houses... Not needed in COSMOBIOLOGY.

Tony Alicea
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: Computer Astro Chart-don't bother
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 06:23:14 GMT

Carole@brownvm (Carolyn Egan) writes:
>ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) wrote:
>> Meanwhaal, Dave Casper's chart's been read in rec.org.mensa fer all ye
>> what wants to see;

>What a complete waste of time.  Once again, please don't put yourself it
>the category of an Astrologer. 

I'd read the chart analysis before making that statement. Our styles might
differ - no crime. I'd like to see what Dave has to say about it.
-ecsd
From: lmpm@teal.csn.org (L. M. P. McPherson)
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
Subject: Re: 1992 QB1, Beyond Pluto
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:51:26 GMT
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.

crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes:
>The Object Beyond Pluto file just posted will be of interest to
>astrologers...
>Can someone convert
>the location given into either Tropical or Sideral zodiacal location?

Hi Lou,

Douglas Kyle Pierce informs me that astronomers, like western astrologers,
use the tropical zodiac, but they express positions in terms of time along
the ecliptic. The position given in the posting was 0h 00.09 +0d 01'.7
(2000.0). It appears that the first part (0h 00.09) is hours and minutes
of right ascension, which would correspond to 0 degrees Aries in the
tropical zodiac. If I'm correct, that's pretty wild -- it was discovered
at 0 Aries! The rest of the position appears to be the declination
(+0d 01'.7). The (2000.0) is the year 2000, which astronomers use
as a reference point for measurements -- something to do with precession.

I wonder if it's the ruler of Taurus? With the "green" movement in full
swing, it seems like an appropriate time for its discovery.


Maggie
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
From: praetzel@marconi.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel)
Subject: Re: Simpering Sophists (was Re: Nattering Nabobs)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 11:22:18 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.185702.29627@u.washington.edu> astrolog@byron.u.washington.edu (Astrolog) writes:
>In article <21SEP199216382169@vxcrna.cern.ch> casper@vxcrna.cern.ch (CASPER,DAVI./PPE) writes:
>>Yes, and I suppose he would have said the same about the alchemical
>>transmutation of lead into gold, which he also firmly believed in.
>
>Guess what, Dave? :) It *is* possible to physically change lead into
>gold. Unfortunately, I don't have my chemistry book with me, and

  Unfortunately the methods you are talking of involve fussion or fission.
Please setup your research station on an asteriod before you decide to give it
a try.  The probability of it happening with random bombardment is very small.

So now it seems that astologers gybile and gyre to transmute lead into gold.
By their own mouths they group themselves with the occult and other magick's.
I think that we are finally getting closer to the truth.  However, it is a 
lot easier to explain astrological effects with psychology than it is to
explain the occult.  There was an interestiong little book on the human brain
and how the brain may operate by changing the probabilities on a quantum
scale.  Pretty far fetched but at least it could explain some "observed"
psychic phenomena.  Please do not contaminate a _real_ scientific investigation
of the occult with talk of astrology  :-)
  - Eric 
"In those last moments he must have found that he loved life more than he ever
 had before.  Not only his own but everyone elses.  All I could do is sit and
 watch him die.  The only thing he wanted was the answers to the questions that
 we all ask.  'Why are we here?  What is my purpose?  How long do I have?'"
    Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
Date: Monday, 5 Oct 1992 16:10:42 EST
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
Subject: Re: Full Moon
 <1992Oct5.183814.16261@u.washington.edu> <1aq6drINN1kf@agate.berkeley.edu>

someone said something like, "i have a theory about the full moon.  much
like the moon's gravitation causes tides, it causes the gas and liquid in
the brain to 'rise up' and exert pressure..."  (this is probably horribly
paraphrased, but that's the basic idea which was put forth).

now, far be it from me to want to appear as a scientific nazi again, but
did you ever THINK about your theory? there are two things about it, that
with only a little thought, you can see are blatantly wrong:

 1) tides are only observable because of the hugeness of the ocean.
    when's the last time you noticed the tide in a small pond? the
    brain is much smaller than a small pond.  the way that tides work
    is that one side of the ocean (e.g., the pacific) is much closer
    to the moon than the other side (e.g., the atlantic) is.  thus,
    more gravitational force is applied to one side than the other,
    resulting in the pull of the waters, which is the tide.  one side
    of your brain is virtually the same distance from the moon as the
    other side of your brain; hence, the tidal force in your brain
    due to the moon is at best theoretical.

 2) you may argue the first point, conceivably.  not a very safe argument,
    but you may argue it nonetheless.  however, this second point is
    irrefutable: THE FULL MOON HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TIDES.  tides occur
    daily, not monthly.

but, of course, facts will convince no one.
From: s0xjg@exnet.co.uk (Xavier Gallagher)
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
Subject: RE: 0Tau01
Summary: Do the signs blur at the edges?
Keywords: Heck NO!
Date: 4 Oct 92 11:32:23 GMT
Organization: ExNet Systems Ltd Public Access News, London, UK

More thoughts on the subject.

When a planet nears the end of a sign and approaches a cusp it still retains
its' essential dignity or debility until it actually  changes sign.  Mars
does not suddenly stop being exalted in Capricorn just 'cause it is within
1 degree of Aquarius.  Nor is the sun fallen until it is actually in Libra.
What sort of astrologer would you be if you did say "Well, will you look at that
Even though you are a virgo your Sun is actually in its fall"?

The depositer of a planet does not change until the planaet changes sign. A
planet in Aries is still ruled by Mars right until it leaves that sign.
This applies as much to the Sun as to any other planet.  Indeed as the nature
of the sign reflects the ruling planet to say that the signs blur at the
edges is to give effective rulership of part of a sign to another planet.

I do not think it works to blur the edges.  I think it is a cop out.  It is
however perfectly natural to hedge ones' bets.

Xavier Gallagher
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Will person wanting HP-GL code please reply directly ...
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 02:43:19 GMT

Otherwise I have to scan through 8M worth of random mail files.
Sorry for the delay.

On another note:
Subject: Re: Mr. CERN

- Sorry, perhaps should be Capuano. Use :%s ...


-ecsd
From: cg482@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Linda Paquette)
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
Subject: Re: Full Moon
Date: 5 Oct 1992 23:02:29 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


Tito,
     I like this theory-it's logical.  There is certainly something
about a full moon that causes people to act out of character and it
usually is not in a nice way.

                             Linda :-)
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
From: casper@vxcrna.cern.ch (CASPER,DAVI./PPE)
Subject: Re: Full Moon
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 08:58:00 GMT

In article <1aqfarINN12k@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cg482@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Linda Paquette) writes...
> 
>True Mark but that does not explain the violence, fires, accidents
>etc.
>Perhaps one day we will actually have some answers to this.
>                         Linda :-)

Yes the answer is that there are no more violence, fires, and accidents at
the time of the full moon than at other times.  Due to legend, people tend
to attribute these disturbances to the full moon when there is one, whereas
when they occur at some other time, the absence of correlation is swiftly
forgotten.

This whole discussion is a microcosm of astrological belief: the facts
unambiguously show the absence of an effect, yet people are still talking
themselves blue in the face trying to explain the effect that isn't there.


Dave

Newsgroups: alt.astrology