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Approved-By:  Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.l-hcap
Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:00:09 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2888
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2888

                         Wednesday, August 19, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******

                           Blink Talk Digest # 698

                             Re: "blind loyalty"
                                general stuff
                       Re: Arkenstone Reader and books
                            Re: Art and the blind
                            Re: Art and the Blind
                             Braille translators
                         Re: Slimware Window Bridge
                               Re: Vocal eyes
                         Re: Tinytalk 1.20 is here!
                              Speech Compatible


                                ******


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Subject: Re: "blind loyalty"
From: Chuck.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck Hallenbeck)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 JM> link between the American Brotherhood for the Blind and the
 JM> National Federation of the Blind.  Jernigan routinely uses
 JM> money raised through charibable solicitations for the "services
 JM> to the blind" of the Brotherhood toward financing political
 JM> activities of his in the Federation.

Hi, Jamal.
Yes, that is so. I also find the content of the fund raising appeals
often to be offensive and destructive to the cause of the blind, as do
many professionals. I have received much more of that kind of appeal now
that I am no longer in the organization. It sometimes includes pencils,
with reminders of how the blind would still be limited to selling
pencils if it were not for "the organized blind" movement. Never mind
that the organization appears to be selling pencils to raise its funds.
Other solicitations include a shiny penny with a picture of the blind
beggar's tin cup, again reminding the public of all the negative
stereotypes which NFB is supposed to be fighting. I once asked Dr.
Jernigan at a seminar how he reconciled the content of such appeals with
the stated goals of the organization, and his reply was "it works better
than any alternatives." I wonder why civil rights organizations have
never thought of including little pieces of watermelon in their fund
raising appeals, to remind people of what life would be likke for blacks
if it were not for their worthy efforts? I think I know the answer to
that question.

 JM> P.S.  The American Brotherhood for the Blind has recently been
 JM> renamed to the American Action Fund for Blind Children and
 JM> Adults.  If that were its sole focus, it is a positive name
 JM> change--gender- neutral,

 JM> etc.  Unfortunately, with what I know about its additional
 JM> hidden purposes, I cannot help but wonder if it an attempt to
 JM> strenghthen the perception of its charitable role over a
 JM> different reality.

I wondered what that "new" organization was all about. I asked several
NFB members and officers if they had ever heard of it, and nobody knew
(or wanted to know) anything about it.

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Subject: general stuff
From: Chuck.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Chuck Hallenbeck)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 KB> Chuck, I think, what you're getting is 20 characters per second
 KB> on each side of the page, thus 40 CPI which include both sides
 KB> of the page.  Nearly like two rB-20s.

Hi, Keith.
Portia says the single-side speed of the Juliet is 28 CPS, which is a
little better than half the interpoint speed of 40 CPS. The Everest
drops from 100 to 50 CPS for single sided printing, according to Chuck
Wright.

 KB> Is Porcia Hunley your salesperson?  I
 KB> don't have her card here in front of me, so may have her name
 KB> spelled incorrectly, but she was in Phoenix and, if I'm not
 KB> mistaken, serves at least some of the midwest.  Enabling has
 KB> some maps, so you might want to get them to or your salesperson
 KB> to send a couple to you, one done on the Romeo, t e other the
 KB> Juliet.
     Yes, Portia Huntley is one of six national reps, and she has a
pretty big territory. She is very sharp,  and has been with them a long
time.

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Subject: Re: Arkenstone Reader and books
From: Ron.Denis@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Ron Denis)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 CA> I don't know, perhaps I am doing something wrong then.  I find
 CA> that the scanner misses words along the edgs of the book,
 CA> especially in the binding. But I've only tried it a few times.

The secret is to bend that binding till it wants to split.  This is
hard if you're going to resell the book.  My roommates in college
used to talk about "breaking the bindings" to make unread books
look read.  The "breaking" isn't exactly literal, but it's close.
Also, give an extra check to make sure the book is as flat as
possible of the scanner.  It takes practice, is boring as hell, but
in the end, well worth it.  Once you know a book is scanning ok,
copy it as a batch or you'll die of old age before you reach the
end of the first chapter.  Ron

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Subject: Re: Art and the blind
From: Cindy.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Cindy Hallenbeck)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 DC> Did you read the article in last month's Braille Monitor
 DC> regarding the exhibit in Chicago which is doing tours for blind
 DC> people, and the reporter who went through it with his eyes
 DC> closed to experience what it would be like for a blind person
 DC> to go through the house?  The article the reporter did was
 DC> absolutely ridiculous, and a blind patron of the arts wrote a
 DC> letter to the editor of the Chicago Tribune which the Monitor
 DC> reprints.  I'm like you, not into touch art, but this lady is
 DC> someone who has been into it all her life, and you may want to
 DC> try to contact her if you are interested in learning about it.
 Hi, Doug,

No, I haven't read it yet.  My sense is that sometimes we get over
sensitive about this sort of thing.  I will admit that the project which
I produced in braille had a rather "sappy" bit about Helen Keller in it,
but our fundraising (NFB fundraising) has such.  Though I don't like it,
it gets attention.

I think any person who goes through an exhibit with his/her eyes closed,
or simulates blindness in any way without appropriate guidance from
those who know what it is like to be blind and have training, (the
blind) are doing themselves and the blind an injustice.

I will read the article.  I started it once, and I will complete it.

Cindy Hallenbeck

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Subject: Re: Art and the Blind
From: Cindy.Hallenbeck@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Cindy Hallenbeck)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 WF> I made braille labels for a lifecasting exhibit which was
 WF> housed at the East Baton Rouge Parish Library. It was not done
 WF> specifically for the blind but several blind persons attended
 WF> and enjoyed the show.
 WF> I, myself, did not like the feel of such things because they
 WF> were so cold and hard. It was certainly not reminiscent of life
 WF> to me.

Hi, Warren,

Thanks for your reply.  The woman with whom I am working said that when
Ms. Shalit, the person who has done much of this work, began the show it
was thought of as just for the blind.  Now it is not, though they do
emphasize that the blind can benefit from it.  It is said that sighted
people enjoy the opportunity to touch exhibits such as this, are
intrigued by the celebrity models, and that especially children enjoy
it.  I am looking forward to taking a look if I can.

Cindy

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Subject: Braille translators
From: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Tanner)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/168 - Braille Bank BBS, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

In a message of <05 Aug 92  15:56:00>, Stew Bowden (1:377/6) writes:

 > > >Hi Susan: perhaps I should not join in this discussion regarding braille
 >translators, but having just retired as a school administrator, in a
 >school for the blind, I used the Duxbury braille translator for several
 >years. Found it to be excellent. I am not familiar with Megadots, but I
 >cannot help but question the efficiency of a braille translator which
 >includes a word processor. Seems to me there would have to be come
 >compromises somewhere, and usually, it is the translation that suffers.
 >Hotdots is another translation program by Peter Durran, but since I have
 >not used that program, I am not in a position to say just how good it is.

This is not correct. Hot Dots is made and programmed by David
Holiday and Karen Mavey of Raised Dot Computing.  Their Braille
Edit, BEX and Transcribex are without a doubt the finest Braille
translation software package around.  They have now transported
their excellent work over to the PC.  Mega Dots is no doubt their
equivelent of Transcribex for the Apple.  I think that if you were
to check with the majority of Braille transcription groups accross
the U.S. you would find that most have used Transcribex to achieve
the most accurate Braille transcriptions available with computer
software.  The question of real importance is do you need a
translation software that gives you transcriber quality Braille but
requires a lot of special editing of your text files or do you want
a translator which is simple, easy to use, and gives excellent
results without doing a lot of special editing.

 >Hope you find something you like, but I would give Duxbury a very close
 >look. It is also speech friendly if that is a concern. Stew
 >

Again for the average individual Duxbury is expensive overkill.
For an individual who is not planning on producing large amounts of
Braille for a book or magazine, etc. they would be well advised to
evaluate the Braille output of Turbo Braille and its' simplicity of
use for $295 versus Duxbury for $500 or Mega Dots which is in the
same price range as Duxbury.  If your needs are for transcriber
quality Braille translation then you may wish to consider Mega Dots
because this product comes from a company with over 10 years of
experience producing the finest Braille translation software on the
market.  But for individual use most people don't feel that the
costs of the more expensive translators is worth the difference in
price.  We should have a demo version of Mega Dots available for
download here at Braille Bank BBS (412) 655-0806 by friday August
14.  You may want to check after that date for megadots.zip in the
new uploads area here.

        D. T.

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Subject: Re: Slimware Window Bridge
From: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Tanner)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/168 - Braille Bank BBS, Pittsburgh PA


In a message of <09 Aug 92  01:26:11>, Jeff Dubois (1:163/266) writes:

 > >> When I asked about a demo  of
 >
 >> the Window Bridge, I was told that there was no need for
 >> a demo
 >> since blind people do not have Windows so why have a demo?
 >>
 >> Great logic, huh?
 >I have windows, but I don't like taking the windex to them.
 >Bill, have you used any of Syntha-voice's products yet?
 >Bill, what colour would a choking smurf turn?
 >Bill, are Cheerios really baby donuts?
 >Bill, if you were in a car, travelling at the speed of light, and you
 >turned on your headlight, would anyone be home??
 >
 >My apologies Bill, if this sounds harsh, and we've all struggled big time
 >with our hardware/software configs, but unless you live in a shit house
 >you shouldn't throw bumwad.
 >
 >Criticize a product, after you've taken it for a test drive.
 >

The problem is getting a chance to take a test drive isn't it?
Since you seem to have some clout with the Syntha-voice people why
not tell them that if they really want people to see that they are
serious about improving their image and want to not take a bad rap
from a lot of folks who remember them for a lot of bad experiences
then they really should strongly consider a demo of Window Bridge.

Just as David Andrews said about having a computer waiting for
their copy of Window Bridge; I know several others who ordered the
product at least a month ago who don't have their real copies yet.
They had better get a demo out there that some of us who do have
Windows can try out to see if it is any good or I am afraid they
are going to continue to hear a lot of loud complaints here and a
lot of other places.

        D. T.

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Subject: Re: Vocal eyes
From: Rick.Alfaro@f8.n369.z1.fidonet.org (Rick Alfaro)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:369/8 - The Catwalk BBS, Davie FL


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 TW> rick installed the new vocal eyes on the bbs machine. even with
 TW> autoloading off and voice off it has a bad habbit of starting
 TW> to say line feed line feed line feed and I don't know how to
 TW> shut that up.

Tandy,

Pop up your vocal eyes control pannel and go to screen and then to
punctuation.  Under the punctuation sub-menu make sure you have space,
control, and enhanced set to off.  As a matter of fact, the best results
in my opinion for the bbs are achieved by setting all of the punctuation
settings to off.  It soiunds like you might have control set to
something other than off.  Let me know if that is the case...

Regards,
Rick

... Strike any user when ready . . .

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Subject: Re: Tinytalk 1.20 is here!
From: Rick.Alfaro@f8.n369.z1.fidonet.org (Rick Alfaro)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:369/8 - The Catwalk BBS, Davie FL


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 EB> Version 1.20 of Tinytalk, the powerful and affordable screen
 EB> reader from OMS Development, is FINALLY available!  The most
 EB> significant new feature is an independent audio cursor for
 EB> "modeless review."  We've also added user-defined punctuation
 EB> pronunciation (want to hear "dot" instead of "point"?  Want to
 EB> hear "dot" at the DOS prompt, "period" in WordPerfect and
 EB> "point" in Lotus?), selectable order for reading multiple
 EB> windows, a "read current character" hotkey, and much more.  The

Eric,

Sounds very nice.  Do you have any idea at all when you will be adding
support for desqview?  So far, the only package that works reliably
under desqview is Vocal eyes.  That has been my experience at least.
Jaws does work, but very unreliably.  I would love to add Tiny Talk to
the list of those screen readers that work well under desqview.  I spend
90% of my pc time under dv so if you ever decide to add the support, you
will get my registration for sure, guaranteed!

Regards,
Rick

... Silver Xpress makes it's motion picture debut as the "The Emailator"!

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Subject: Speech Compatible
From: Steve.Richards@f101.n277.z1.fidonet.org (Steve Richards)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:277/101 - House Of Pancakes, Morgantown WV


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

In a message 08-07-92 (21:36) From: KEITH BUCHER To: STEVE RICHARDS
KB>     And so do I.  When you do it yourself, what you want is what you
KB>     get.  The speech problem in Blue Wave is just one example, one of
KB>of many, I might add.  Should we think before we ask that inevitable
KB>question, "Does it work with speech?"  Keith.

True.  Still, I guess having programs that talk too much is better than
having programs that won't work at all with speech.  Not that I would
ever want to be complacent about the issue.  One big hurdle we must
overcome, though, is the fact that what one person sees as too much
speech is viewed by another as just right, and by yet another as not
enough.  Ideally we should be able to customize what programs send via
the BIOS screen routines.  But this would certainly add to the
difficulty of creating those programs.
Steve R.

 * SLMR 2.1a * I'm so drunk I'm hearing double!
-------------------------

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                  End of Issue # 2888 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
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