HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pauls@icecreambar.css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth)
Subject: Re: Maillard Aris 8-Freewheel
Reply-To: pauls@umich.edu
Organization: University of Michigan
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 21:42:42 GMT

TOM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes
| I'm thinking about buying an Maillard 8 speed freewheel 13-21 to use on
| my campy tipo hubs.  I had the rear of the frame spaced to 130mm and  
also
| machined spacers for the correct distance, which is 37mm from the face  
of
| the hub, to the end of the lock nut to accept the 8-speed freewheel.   
Can
| anyone tell me anything about the Aris?  Would it be best to go with the
| 7-speed instead?, or just having another wheel built up with an 8-speed
| cassette?
|                                             Tom

I have used the Aris 8spd.  I had chainline problems when I used it, so I  
put it up on the wall and I'm using 7spd Dura Ace instead.  The freewheels  
from Aris are really a boon because they fill a niche that Shimano refuses  
to, but the quality of them is not as good as the Shimanos in terms of the  
body.  I've seen several of them come back very crunchy to the shop after  
a month or so.  Most recreational riders looking for a cheaper solution to  
their desire for 7spd Shimano drivetrains are quite happy with them  
though, since they end up not having to buy or rebuild a wheel.

If you could afford to get a real 8 speed cassette rear wheel, I would  
recommend that much more highly.  You have to consider that the 8spd  
freewheel is going to end up greatly increasing the liklihood of bent  
axles.  Even though I have always preferred threaded freewheels to  
cassettes, I have yet to find an adequate setup for 8spd freewheels.  An  
8spd Shimano 600 rear hub (which can be ordered alone from a number of  
places, your bike shop can order it from Quality Bicycle Products) would  
be a much better choice for both performance and durability, not to  
mention bearing smoothness over an old pair of Tipos that don't even have  
polished races.  If it was Record, I'd just be telling you to get a Dura  
Ace 7 freewheel and forget about it.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tims@cci632.cci.com (Tim Sullivan)
Subject: Re: Removing a frozen stem
Reply-To: tims@cci.com (Tim Sullivan)
Organization: Northern Telecom NAS, Rochester, NY
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 14:24:21 GMT


adrian@robots.ox.ac.uk (Adrian Cox) wrote this about 
"Removing a frozen stem":
[ deleted text ]
>pretty certain that the stem and forks are rusted together, and the
>penetrating oil I've put inside has had no effect.  So far I've
>thought of two possible approaches, and I'd like some comments or new
>ideas for freeing it.  It's a fairly basic steel frame, but I'm still
>nervous about both of these options.
>
>1> Use a blowtorch to heat up and expand the tubes, freeing the rust.
>2> Hit it harder with a larger hammer.
>

	I recently removed a frozen stem on one of my bikes.  I used a
	variation of option 2.  I took  a 12 inch 2x2 and placed it
	under the bend of the stem where it goes forward.  The I began
	hitting the other end of the 2x2 with a wooden mallot until
	the stem came loose.  It took quite a lot of pounding, but it
	finally came out.  I made sure I greased everything sufficiently
	when I put it back together.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Sullivan
tims@cci.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: maxwell@sun44.synercom.hounix.org (Allan Maxwell)
Subject: Re: Great MTB's MB-0/1
Organization: Synercom Technology, Inc., Houston, TX
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:19:22 GMT

In article <5677@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> broadley@lrdc5 (Bill Broadley) writes:
>I would like to start a discusion about GREAT MTB's especially the MB-0 and
>MB-1, which have my vote.
>
>MB-0 Tig welded Steel frame of Ritchey Logic tubes, not oversize.
>Xc-pro drivetrain, 986 brakes, Mavic Crank and hubs. (24.5 lbs)
>
>[...]  The Mavic crank looks
>very unusal. [...]

The decline of --it is no longer produced-- the MB-0 was probably the 
Mavic crankset.  The addition of a $300 crank to an otherwise *basic*
racing bike increased the asking price without offering any real 
performance improvements.  Just my opinion! 

Allan Maxwell
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney)
Subject: Re: Do frames wear out?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Distribution: rec
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 19:18:56 GMT

jeff@is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp (Jeff McAffer) writes:
: 
: Do frames wear out?  

In general, yes.

: If so, how do you tell if your frame is worn out?

When it breaks.  There is no other definition of "wearing out", at least
for frames constructed of metals.  The metals will not change stiffness
through use, but can eventually suffer fatigue failure (i.e.  it
breaks).  I do not know enough about the long term behavior of carbon
fiber composites to comment on its fatigue properties.

: Is there a major difference in durability between CrMo, Carbon, Al?

There are major differences when one looks at the materials in
isolation, however, any reasonable designer/manufacturer will take these
differences into account when constructing a frame from one of the
materials.  I don't believe one can infer anything about the durability
(or lack thereof) of a bike based solely on the material from which it
is constructed.  In other words, you can build a delicate, fragile frame
from any of the materials, and you can build sturdy, durable frames from
any of them.  You can also build stiff or flexible frames from any of
the materials.

Harry Phinney   harry@hp-pcd.cv.hp.com
From: camlau@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (**bj**)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: mtb: suntour microdrive cassette compatibility
Date: 9 Sep 92 13:47:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <q6rn57k.tomk@netcom.com>, tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes...
>In article <1992Sep8.202349.25987@Happy-Man.com> Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com writes:
>>
>>You could just use a microdrive crank for the tiny rings,
>>and use a standard hub for the standard cog ranges.  This
>>would be less expensive, since you won't be paying the
>>newness premium on microdrive equipment.  You also would
>>not need to use a Suntour freehub/cassette setup if you
>>prefer freewheels or other brands of hubs.
> 
>I see that Specialized is marketing a beautiful micro-drive compatible
>crank set. it's pretty pricey too though.

I already have suntour microdrive setup on my bike.  It's a great setup.
I've also seen the Specialized version of the micro-drive crankset.  It's
my recollection that the only noticeable difference between the suntour
and the Specialized is the name sticker on the chainwheel.  Anyone, correct
me if I am wrong.

However, the suntour micro-drive rear cluster comes only 11-24.  I have
heard via email from several of you that, unfortunately, the microdrive
freehub will not accept the conventional powerflo suntour cassettes
(i.e. 12-28).  Thus limiting the lowest available gear to 20-24.
One person (sorry I can't remember your name since I cleaned my mail
files) informed me that the Specialized boys (i.e. Overend, Price) are
using suntour micro-drive 42/32/20 crankset coupled to a standard suntour
freehub-cassette.  Except that they have taken the lock-ring 12 tooth cog
and replaced it with the micro-drive 11-13 double cog lock-ring from
the microdrive cassette.  The end result is that they ended up with
an 8 speed 11-28 rear cluster coupled to the 42/32/20 front.  Now, that
is some range in gear inches!  
	I also heard that suntour micro-drive
cassettes will be offered as an 8 speed next year.  Can anyone confirm
this?  Does anyone know what the configuration is going to be?

**bj**  
**always tinkering**
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: dick@ncs.com
Subject: Re: Tire cuts: When is too bad?
Organization: National Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:47:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.044450.27631@shearson.com> mjohnsto@jenny.shearson.com (Mike Johnston) writes:
>
>With about 100 miles on a pair of brand new Michelin Super Comp HD's
>. The cut is about 1/3" long and runs across the business side of
>the tire perpendicular to the direction of travel. It went all the way
>through, cleanly.
>
>I keep my tires at 110psi. Should I worry about a blowout with this tire?


My advice is throw it away and get a new one.  It is a shame to waste
such a good tire, but it is not worth the grief to have a blowout
far from home.  I sounds like this tire will eventually blow.  A 
cut of this sort can happen to any tire, so I wouldn't blame your
misfortune on the tire.

-- 

Dick Anderson
Minneapolis

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: bschwart@snoid.cray.com (Robert J. Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Tire cuts: When is too bad?
Keywords: Tire cuts, repairs
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 8 Sep 92 14:44:21 CDT

Mike Johnston writes:
>
>With about 100 miles on a pair of brand new Michelin Super Comp HD's
>I got a nasty flat the other day that left a battle scar on my rear
>tire. The cut is about 1/3" long and runs across the business side of
>the tire perpendicular to the direction of travel. It went all the way
>through, cleanly.
>
>I keep my tires at 110psi. Should I worry about a blowout with this tire?
>Am I being a worry wart? 

With a small cut, it's probably no problem. The thing to keep in mind is that
the tire has lost support over the entire length of the cords that are cut,
not just at the actual cut. This is a bigger factor with larger cuts/thinner
tires.

I boot cuts by duct taping an X over the cut, where the cross is over the
cut and the tape parallels the bias of the cords from bead to bead. For big
cuts I use more layers of tape. Cheap and quick.

I've used this method to produce bump-less tubular patches and squeeze
miles out of badly cut clinchers. The narrower the tire the better it works.
I've had much less luck reinforcing sidewall abrasions in MTB tires like this.

Bob Schwartz
bschwart@cray.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: markd@cup.hp.com (Mark_Donohoe)
Subject: Re: bike suspension news?
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:25:09 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.3 PL5

scott weddel (scweddel@nyx.cs.du.edu) wrote:
: 
: What's the state of the art in bike suspensions?  I've heard a little about
: the existence, but haven't found many people to know it exists.
: What's available and what are the going rates?
: 
Generally only on high-end bikes.  Still changing A LOT.  So if you like
investing (it's not cheap!) in prototype/bleeding edge technology, go for it.
It is generally restricted now to MTB's, might move over to road bikes, but
for now don't count on it.

Front shocks are very similar, but the rear designs have not yet seemed to
reach any kind of consensus.  So far, I like Fisher's rear design.  Expect
a lot of borrowing from the motorcycle designs.

Personally I like the idea, but am not willing to invest yet...waiting a few
years till a 'standard' develops (e.g. most generally agree that system 'X'
is good, stable and found on a number of different brands of bikes).
--
Mark Donohoe (markd@cup.hp.com)

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: doug@shako.Colorado.EDU (Doug McKnight)
Subject: Re: Great MTB's MB-0/1
Reply-To: doug@shako.Colorado.EDU (Doug McKnight)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:01:19 GMT

Oops sorry. I should read with my eyes open.
D
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: How good are frame repairs?
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 17:44:16 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <drt.716548287@brolga> drt@brolga.cc.uq.oz.au (David Taylor) writes:
>Can good frame builders repair frames back to their original condition?
>Or will it never be the same?

A good frame builder can rebuild a frame perfectly.

But this isn't the question. If it costs you the same amount as buying
a new bike made of better materials and with custom fitting, why would
you want to?

Companies like Bianci sell frames only of very nice bikes that
are superbly craft (if mass produced) and priced suprisingly low.

Custom frame builders in the U.S. can generally meet the price of
a good Italian frame builder and supply a custom fitted frame to 
practically any specification.

So there is little reason to rebuild a trashed frame unless there
is great sentimental value to it.

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: dkw@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (David Wittenberg)
Subject: "Alternating" brakes for cooling
Organization: Brandeis University Computer Science
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:09:00 GMT


I've seen some people argue against drums on a tandem by saying that
they  alternate the front and rear brakes to allow the other brake to
cool.   (Please avoid the discussion about whether tandems need drums.
That's in a nother thread.)  Why does alternating the brakes help?  I
don't think it should.

You have a fixed amount of energy to dissipate, and i would think that
the closer to equal the temperatures of the two rims are the more
efficently you would dissipate the heat.  In particular, getting one
rim almost cool means that you're no longer dissipating heat from it.

So, is there any reason for this alternating other than your hands
cramp up holding both brakes at once?

--David Wittenberg
From: adrian@robots.ox.ac.uk (Adrian Cox)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Removing a frozen stem
Date: 9 Sep 92 10:01:31 GMT
Organization: Robotics Research Group, Oxford University

I can't afford a new commuting bike, so I'm resurrecting a bike that's
been left standing in a shed for three years.  Everything is going
smoothly, except that I can't get the stem out.  The expander bolt is
missing and I can see the wedge nut rattling around loose inside.  I'm
pretty certain that the stem and forks are rusted together, and the
penetrating oil I've put inside has had no effect.  So far I've
thought of two possible approaches, and I'd like some comments or new
ideas for freeing it.  It's a fairly basic steel frame, but I'm still
nervous about both of these options.

1> Use a blowtorch to heat up and expand the tubes, freeing the rust.
2> Hit it harder with a larger hammer.

- Adrian
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: frank@dendrite.sps.mot.com (Mark Frank)
Subject: spoke length
Organization: SPS
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:19:54 GMT

In using the spokelen program from the archives, I get the message:

    Add and subtract 1mm for each side of a dished 6/7 spd. rear wheel.

My question is: What do I do for 8 speed cassettes?
- Thanks for your help

--
Mark Frank				frank@dendrite.sps.mot.com
Motorola Inc.				 
2100 E. Elliot MD508			Tempe, AZ 85284
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: Removing frozen freewheel
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:19:27 GMT

In <1992Sep10.191808.13334@pony.Ingres.COM> rudyw@Ingres.COM (Rudy Walter) writes:

>A seldom used older bike in the family has a broken spoke on the dished
>side of the rear wheel. I knew it would be easy to fix if only that
>!$#`% freewheel would come off. Problem is that the freewheel (screw
>on type not the cassette type) is frozen and I have partially stripped
>the raised steel edge on which the freewheel removing tool is
>supposed to seat itself. I have enough edge left to be able to seat the
>freewheel tool, but need to avoid using a lot of force. I tried some
>Liquid Wrench to free it up along with some sideways hammer tapping, but
>the sucker still isn't budging. Any miracle cures or products out there?

Two Ugly But Effective Ways To Take Off Stuck Freewheels

(or why I still use SunTour freewheels despite the
inferior removal tool compared to Shimano & others'
splined tools)

If you really can't get the thing off with the removal
tool, e.g. when you've destroyed the lugs the tool fits
into and broken two tools doing it, take a pair of chain
whips and pull off the cogs.  

If possible, remove the lockring and take the outer body
of the freewheel off, leaving the inner body which does
not freehweel and can be gripped directly with a pipe
wrench, a vise, etc.  This works better but often is not
possible.

Clamp the outer end of the outer, freewheeling part of the
freewheel in a large vise and crush it just enough that it
stops freehweeling, but not enough to deform the inner
body and munge your threads.  Turn the wheel to unscrew it
from the corpse of the freewheel.

Both of these methods will work, and both will leave you
with parts of a dead freewheel.

If this sounds like too much of a hassle, take it to a
good shop and they will do something similar.

IMPORTANT: before you do any of these things, make sure
you are turning the freewheel the right direction :-)
-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
From: asrbh@acad2.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Chain Cleaners
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:10:00 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska

In article <1992Sep11.170438.13881@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>,
seanodon@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Aragorn) writes:
> ready).  Does anyone have experience with the 'chain cleaners' available
> from Park or Vetta.  I'm talking about the type that goes around the
> chain and then you spin the chain to run it through.

	I've use the Finish Line cleaner for about eight months.  I would
_not_ want to go back to breaking  the chain every time it needs cleaning.
(that means I like the cleaner!)  I use Simple Green as the cleaning agent.
One or two runs with it and two or three rinses with water, wipe the chain
down, lubricate, and done.  Total time is < 15 minutes.  It's so easy and
fast that I don't mind doing it every day if riding (commuting) conditions
require.  As an interesting aside, the cleaner works great for removing
volacanic ash.
{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}
{}                              Weep not for the dead, they   {}
{}  Randy Hart                  are but empty cages from      {}
{}  ASRBH@ACAD2.ALASKA.EDU      which the bird has flown.     {}
{}  Anchorage, Alaska                Tibetian Book            {}
{}                                    of the Dead             {}
{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}
From: seanodon@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Aragorn)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Chain Cleaners
Keywords: Chain cleaners, Park vs Vetta vs ?, cleaning materials
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:04:38 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

Howdy,

	Hopefully this won't start a flame war about cleaning chains
again (let me put on the aspestos (sp?) suit just in case  .... ok,
ready).  Does anyone have experience with the 'chain cleaners' available
from Park or Vetta.  I'm talking about the type that goes around the
chain and then you spin the chain to run it through.  Does any one brand
work better than the other.  How does it work overall; does one need to
clean the chain weekly for it to work or can it be used only for rides
where the rider and bike look like they just finished Paris-Rouibax
(sp?).  Also are there any cleaners which work better and don't leave a
residue (Citrasolve?).  Any input would be appreciated, as since my
current technique (rag against chain) is only somewhat effiecient on my
road bike, and useless for the mountain bike.

Aragorn

PS : Thanks in advance
-- 
***seanodon@ecn.purdue.edu***********************************************
*  Man-in-Black: "You mean you'll put down your rock and I'll put 	*
*		  down my sword, and we'll try to kill each other 	*
*		  like civilized people."	_The Princess Bride_	*
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: praetzel@marconi.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel)
Subject: Re: hyperglide cassette cogs positions in the cluster
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:16:15 GMT

mikami@Apple.COM (Eiichiro Mikami) writes:
:        I just got a 8sp hyperglide cassette and I notice the last 6 cogs
: are bolted together. I was able to unbolt them but the questions is are
: the cogs made to be in a certain positions?
  Yes there are different sets and if you want the _optimum_ shifting you will
not mix and match but there is no reason why you can not.  As for the cogs
being fastened.  They will either be bolted or rivited.  So if you want to take
it appart get a wrench or drill.  Just be sure to keep the spacers in order;
although I am sure that like the 7 speed only the last spacer will be different.
  And yes you could use the old 7 speed cogs but I am not quite sure what will
happen.  The chains are slighly narrower but I have heard of people using 7
speed narrow chains on 8 speed setups.  A sign of problems will be it being
twitchy and not staying in one gear. If you have a set of 7 speed cogs give
it a shot and tell us how it goes.
  - Eric 
//  All roads lead to death.
Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Date: Mon,  7 Sep 1992 17:40:05 -0400 
From: Allen W Kim <ak3q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Question on Headsets!!Help

	I have a problem.  My headset keeps loosening up during rides and the
threads on the fork tube is beginning to strip due to the constant
adjustments that I'm making.  Any suggestions on how to really tighten
down on the headset?  The threads are almost bare now.  Thanks.
From: TOM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Maillard Aris 8-Freewheel
Date: 10 Sep 92 20:31:51 GMT
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

I'm thinking about buying an Maillard 8 speed freewheel 13-21 to use on
my campy tipo hubs.  I had the rear of the frame spaced to 130mm and also
machined spacers for the correct distance, which is 37mm from the face of
the hub, to the end of the lock nut to accept the 8-speed freewheel.  Can
anyone tell me anything about the Aris?  Would it be best to go with the
7-speed instead?, or just having another wheel built up with an 8-speed
cassette?
                                            Tom
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: ronf@panther3.panther.mot.com (Ron Feigen)
Subject: Re: Chain Cleaners
Organization: Motorola Panther Project, Chandler, AZ
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:36:30 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.184831.13576@uwm.edu> aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Strider) writes:
>suggest using the solvent that is supplied as a lubricant.  After I am
>finished running the chain through the cleaning unit I drop on some silicon
>liquid and spin the chain through all the gears.  Things are running
>smoothly so far.

What type of silicon liquid. I was planning on using tri-flow (bottle not spray)


-- 

>
Ron Feigen
ronf@panther.mot.com