From: markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205)
Subject: Re: Jordan >= Magic && Bird
Organization: Bell Northern Research Inc.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 12:17:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.213743.16703@uvmark.uucp> davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.152443.5240@brtph560.bnr.ca> markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:
>>The idea of this clip is to show that Jordan can dominate over any type
>>of player in an offensive matchup.  If you don't like the Mel comparison,
>>go back to the Bulls-NY playoff series when Jordan gets double-teamed on
>>the baseline by Wilkins and Oakley (with Ewing watching from under the 
>>basket).  Jordan looks like he gives up on the baseline and then whips
>>by both plays headed toward the hoop with full head of steam.  Ewing comes
>>out from under the basket to defend Jordan's attack and Jordan f*ck*ng
>>dunks all over him.  Magic and Bird could *never* do this (and that goes 
>>for the early 80's).  
>
>No, Magic would have executed a behind the back pass to Bird who would have
>hit the 3ptr with two Knicks in his face.

Well, okay.  You got me there.

>>I'll tell you why Jordan I think Jordan is better than Bird...it's because
>>Jordan simply has no weakness.  Bird can't play defense, which is SERIOUS
>>liability in my opinion.  He is just so DAMNED good on offense, he forces
>>himself to be on my top-3 list:
>>   1. Jordan
>>   2. Magic
>>   3. Bird
>
>Bird has been known to be a great team defensive player, though not a good
>one-on-one defender.  You want Jordan's weaknesses???  3pt shooting for one.

Okay, you leave him open at the 3pt arc a couple of times and see how long 
that lasts...

>>As for who gets the edge where, my vote goes like this..
>>
>>Scoring:              Jordan (Bird's a scorer, too)
>>Shooting:             Bird (Magic and Jordan are shooters, too)
>>Passing:              Magic (Jordan and Bird can pass, too)
>>Rebounding:           Bird (Magic and Jordan can rebound, too)
>>Playmaking(team):     Magic (Bird is a team playmaker, too)
>>Playmaking(individ):  Jordan (Magic is an individ playmaker, too)
>
>Well, if I were to list things like above, it would be 
>Scoring:  Jordan, Bird, Magic	(Jordan is the better pure scorer)
>Shooting: Bird, Jordan, Magic	(Bird is the better pure shooter)
>Passing:  Magic, Bird, Jordan	(Magic is the best, but Bird is pretty close)
>Rebounding:Bird, Magic, Jordan	(Bird is a great defensive rebounder)
>Playmaking(team): Magic, Bird, Jordan(Magic, but Bird is very close)
>Playmaking(indiv): Jordan, Bird, Magic(Jordan, only due his ability to make his
>				own plays, but Bird close behind, due to his
>				ability to draw the defense out and open things
>				up for others)
>Hustle:   Bird, Magic Jordan	(Bird by a large margin)
>Defense:  Jordan, Bird, Magic	(Jordan by a big margin)
>
>One thing I note in the list is that Bird is the best in 3 categories, and 
>2nd in 5 othes (of 8), where Jordan is the best in 3 categories, 2nd in 1,
>and 3rd in 4 categories.  And, Bird is the best in Shooting and Rebounding
>(as well as hustle), while Jordan is the best at scoring and defense
>(as well as indiv. playmaking, which leads to scoring).  Bird is the better
>at teamplaymaking & passing.  This is why if someone were to ask who was the
>better individual player, I would say Bird.  Not only was he damn good on his
>own right, he made others so much better.  Jordan was very good in his own
>right, and made others better, but not to the degree Bird did.

Looking at your list, I notice that Bird was either number 1 or number 2, but
NEVER number 3.  No way could *2* players be better than Bird in anything.
Your bias shows pretty clear in individual playmaking.  You give Bird the 2nd
spot, but mention that what makes him good at individual playmaking is 
opening up the floor for the other players (sounds a lot like team playmaking,
but I could be mistaken) ;^)

Don't suppose your just a *little* biased...

-- 
Andrew W. Markham (markham@bnr.ca)
Bell Northern Research, Inc.