From: johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000)
Subject: Re: Football Failures at Bowie Force end of Season
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 19:21:56 GMT
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Organization: IBM Advanced Workstations and Systems, Austin, TX
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fred j mccall 575-3539 (mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com) wrote:
: In <1992Nov13.004832.24209@watson.ibm.com> johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000) writes:
: >Not at all.  I just didn't know what you meant by "good citizen".
: 
: Then why were you claiming that I "introduced the term".

You introduced the term INTO THIS DISCUSSION.  Are you this dense in real life?

: >See how easy that was?  It didn't even take up "volumes".  Why couldn't you
: >have just done this to begin with?
: 
: Because, since it is absolutely a simplistic and incomplete definition
: (which is why it didn't take up volumes), we will now probably see
: dozens of notes asking "Well, what about X?" and nitpicking about this
: or that or the other.  See what dealing with this group does?

Well then you're anal-retentive as well as dense.  You're so worried about
being asked to explain your opinions that you only want to commit yourself
enough to tell somebody they're WRONG and to go read a book.  That really
facilitates conversation.

: I know what you're 'trying to point out'.  That's why I didn't want to
: even get into it, since philosophers have spent LIFETIMES studying
: this sort of thing.

Sigh.  Life would be so much easier if we just accepted Fred's opinion as 
gospel.

: I think the fundamental difference is that you see school as 'real
: life', rather than as part of the learning and training for it.

And you have a narrow definition of what "real life" is allowed to be.

: The
: idea behind school is to TRY and prepare people with some of the
: skills they are likely to need.  Given the odds, they aren't likely to
: need football skills, WHICH IS WHY IT ISN'T PART OF THE CURRICULUM.

Some people like to play longshots.  The odds of me winning the Lotto are
16 million-to-1, and yet I bought a few tickets anyway.  You better start
guarding that 7-11.

: >would just ignore the teacher and daydream.  Especially if the teacher evicted
: >anyone who was being disruptive.
: 
: She can't do that.  Then they wouldn't be able to play football.

Of course before no pass-no play, there was a lot less pressure on her to 
put up with disruptive behavior.  Thanks a lot, Fred.

: >                                                    And there are a lot of
: >things that are easier than studying and mastering the material.
: 
: Until you get caught.

Let's see...if I fail, there's no way I can play football.  If I study hard and
pass a class I have no interest in, I will get to play football.  If I cheat,
I'll probably get to play football.  The worst that can happen is that they
won't let me play football which is what they're doing NOW.  Sounds like it's
worth a try.

: >No, I said that they are not taught in high school.  Maybe you need to read
: >more carefully.
: 
: And maybe you do.  I also said quite explicitly that they ARE taught
: in at least some high schools.

Yeah, and before that you lied about what I wrote to bolster your argument.  
Nice try.

: I suspect you're quite wrong about what 'most other states' have, at
: least insofar as what sorts of policies the schools use.  Shall we run
: a little poll of the people here and see just who has experience with
: it and who doesn't, and then look at the state of the schools in those
: states?

Fine.  I'm all for fact-finding.

: Schools I've had experience with in both Kansas and Colorado
: effectively had 'no pass/no play' rules

What do you mean "effectively"?  Was it enforced by the school or not?  This
makes a big difference in my book.

--
John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
    "Egad, a base tone denotes a bad age" -- TMBG   "I Palindrome I"