From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 23 Nov 92 07:46:06
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
	<1992Nov19.061548.20932@cis.ohio-state.edu>
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	<1992Nov22.054749.7481@cis.ohio-state.edu>
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In-reply-to: khaikin@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu's message of Sun, 22 Nov 1992 05:47:49 GMT

On Sun, 22 Nov 1992 05:47:49 GMT, khaikin@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry
khaikin) said: 

> It is not the xnity that is lurking out there to
> snatch non-Orthodox Jews, it is non-Orthodox Jews who are out there not
> understanding that they are not attached enough to Judaism and not
> protected from being snatched. 

I think, in its stilted syntax, that this is a very important point. The Jew
-- of whatever movement -- who is strongly attached to their form of Judaism
(or even Judaism in general) is less at risk of "being snatched" than the
"casual" or "uncommitted" Jew. It is our responsibility, WHATEVER MOVEMENT WE
ARE IN, to see that our youth and our friends remain and become committed to
Judaism.

This has an implication, friends. Given the choice between attempting to
convince a committed Jew in a different movement that their position is wrong,
it is better to convince a casual Jew that Judaism is important. We waste our
time on this net doing the former; let's do the latter instead.

> That's why I
> blamed R. Yeah, you can blame the parents too, and you should, but the
> parents are reform and did everything that any other person in their
> synagogue did. It is not that I am looking for a reason to blame R. or
> C., it is just that I did thought about it alot and all arguments leed
> to the R. 

Not all Reform Jews raise their kids the same. I've seen parents whose idea of
Reform Jewish education is to drop their kid off at Sunday school and go off
to play tennis. No Jewish life in the home. Contrast that with other Reform
families who send their kids to religious school; discuss the lessons; attend
temple on a somewhat regular basis; have home observances of the holidays; and
send their kids to a Jewish summer camp. Which kid will be more committed to
the religion?

It's not the movement's fault; it's the parents.

> Not because I am such a turn off, but because people like her are
> usually the ones that just don't want to listen. She made up her mind
> and that is it. She had a dream.... Like my Rabbi said to this: "I had a
> dream where I was an ant. Yeah, that's it, I am converting to ants!" 

This "dream" thing is annoying. My father's new wife (not my mother) had a
"dream", and now both of them (born Jewish) are apparently going to a church.
They're adults; I can't tell them what to do (although they know I
disapprove).

> I was born in Russia. My parents were not religious and are not to this 
> day. I never even knew I was a Jew, I mean I knew I was a Jew, but in my
> mind it had nothing to do with religion. Nobody would let me forget that
> I was Jewish. 

This is something quite common. The children of non-religious parents are
often more religious than their parents; the parents of religious parents
often rebel by going non-religious. I'm not saying this is true in Dmitry's
case, but it's something I've observed.

>>Would you care to cite an example of media-induced changes in the 
>>Conservative or Reform movements?
>>
> Sure. For example, the whole thing with sexism. Everybody started
> talking about it (I mean goyim), so R. and C. started emphizing this
> topic in their shuls. 

Ummm, wrong. The concept of "egalitarianism" in Reform dates back to the
earliest days of Reform, where in the spirit of rationality (which drove the
enlightenment), the movement's leaders could see no rational distinction
between men having bar mitzvahs, and women not. Between separation. The
"sexism" in the media didn't start until the 70s, and by then, it was already
a fact in Reform.

> Some
> people wrote to me that Reformism came to U.S. from the Jews from
> Germany. Yes, I know it did and the only reason they took off their
> kipot is because they wanted to be like everybody else, they did not
> want to be pointed out on a street and you know what, that's
> understandable, I don't want that either. 

That may have been the original reason yet, although if you read the responsa,
they note that a requirement for kippot is not to be found in the Torah;
rather, it is a practice from the times of the Talmud that has been adopted.
There is an increasing return to wearing the kippah in the synagogue; I
haven't seen that many Reform wearing it on the street yet.

Daniel
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