From: bb099@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Adam Trent Phillips)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.slack
Subject: Re: Easter whodunnit
Date: 12 Jan 1993 03:32:58 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bb099@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Adam Trent Phillips)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, epowers@mccoy (POWERS,  ERIK  LEE) says:

>In article <1ipt02INNcti@wupost.wustl.edu> oser@fermi.wustl.edu (Scott Oser)  
>writes:
>> 	Let's assume for the moment that Jesus did not rise from the dead.
>> One possible and often repeated explanation of the subsequent events is that
>> graverobbers took the body, resulting in an empty tomb.  (Calm down, theists.
>> If you don't want to assume these things, you don't have to play.)
>> 	If this is what actually happened, then let's play Sherlock and try
>> to see whodunnit?  I've come up with four possibilities:
>> 
>> 1) Ordinary graverobbers.  Perhaps ordinary graverobbers, unconnected to
>> Jesus or his disciples, took the body to sell to medical students or whatever
>> they did with robbed corpses.  This theory has the advantage that it allows
>> Jesus' disciples to honestly believe that he may have risen.  After all, the
>> body had mysteriously disappeared, and their upset emotional state as well
>> as certain things Jesus might have said could have led them to believe that
>> he rose from the dead.
>
>		  The two major problems I see here are that there does not seem to be any  
>reason for them to take the body.  There is no indication that any valuables  
>were on the body.  The only possible value would have been in any expensive  
>perfumes or oils or whatever used to prepare the body (an ancient conspiracy of  
>poor morticians?)...but then why leave the wrapping behind, which would have  
>contained most of these materials?  The only value other than that would be in  
>the hoax itself, which you address later.  The other major problem is the  
>presence of the guards.  Failure to carry out guard duty had serious  
>consequences, death for those in the Roman military, so it seems unlikely the  
>guards would allow anyone to waltz off with the body, at least without a hefty  
>bribe and an attempt to conceal the robbery, which they obviously did not do,  
>since several people found the tomb open.
>
>
>> 
>> 2) Jesus' disciples.  Perhaps some or all of Jesus' disciples decided to take
>> the body, hoping to somehow continue the movement through a farce.  This
>> theory has the advantage that there is clearly motive for them to do so.
>> A big disadvantage is that we have no record of anyone ever confessing to
>> the deed, even when the disciples were being persecuted and executed.  I 
>> find it hard to believe that anyone would allow themselves to be killed for
>> the sake of a known lie.
>
>			This also has the disadvantage that it doesn't deal with the presence of the  
>guards.
>
>> 
>> 3) Jesus' family.  The NT tells us that Jesus' family was opposed to his
>> mission during his lifetime, and specifically that his brother James joined
>> the church only after the resurrection.  Perhaps James and/or other family
>> members decided to take the body themselves, and use the resurrection to
>> take control of Jesus' movement themselves.  This theory has the advantage
>> that since James was not a follower of Jesus, it is more credible that he
>> would accept perpetrating such a farce than would the disciples, who
>> seemingly believed in Jesus.  Also, James WAS able to gain leadership of the
>> early Church.  It is also easier to keep secrets within the family.
>
>			I'm still curious about the guards.
>
>> 
>> 4) Jesus himself.  Mindblowing, huh?  The scenario goes like this:  Jesus,
>> knowing he would be killed, hires accomplices to steal the body and to later
>> claim they saw him resurrected, the idea being to give the disciples a reason
>> to continue to proclaim the kingdom of God.  Perhaps these accomplices  
>included
>> the man some of the disciples met on the road, telling them of Jesus'
>> rising.  These men would not likely later be part of the movement, and so
>> could have easily kept their mouths shut.
>
>			I don't know how easily they could keep their mouths shut.  I'd sure want to  
>brag if I pulled off something THAT big.  This would, however, explain some of  
>the seemingly crazy stuff Jesus said, like "I am the resurrection and the life"  
>or "Apart from me you can do nothing" and "Do not resist an evil person".   
>Anyone crazy enough to hire people to steal his body and not bother trying to  
>escape with his life could say stuff like that.  However, this still doesn't  
>account for the guards.
>
>> 
>> Out of these possibilities, I kind of lean towards number 3.  Given that
>> Jesus did not miraculously appear to his brother James, I find the premise
>> that James was in on it to be the best explanation of his sudden "conversion"
>> to the teachings he was so lukewarm to before.  All of these scenarios
>> except number 2 assume that Jesus' disciples, shaken by his death and a
>> superstitious lot anyway, could easily be convinced that he had risen.
>> I find this reasonable.  For an analogous case, consider that John the
>> Baptist's disciples believed that he had risen, even though as far as I
>> know neither atheists nor Christians believe this.
>> 	Any thoughts or theories?  And please don't write telling me I'm
>> full of shit and that Jesus is Lord(tm) or whatever.  If you can't at
>> least for the sake of argument assume my premises, have the courtesy to
>> just ignore the thread.  Thanks.
>
>			This is too much fun!  Keep it up!
>
>> 
>> -Scott O.
>
>
>																																								Erik Powers
>



	But you forgot two other theories:




	The H. Ross Perot Theory:

	The Republican National Committie took the body so they could sneak
the corpse into his daughter's wedding (You KNOW now randy George Will can get 
when he has had a little too much to drink). Pat Buchannon was the ringleader
.(Who else would be: Danny ? he just ain't to bright)


	The Oliver Stone Theory:

	Jesu' body was swipped by the FBI, CIA, The Mafia, The Pentagon, Army
Intel., The KGB, The `TriLaderals', The `CFR's' and the Dallas TX. PD all
in a conspiracy to blame it all on P. Pilot and keep the Zelots in the fight
against Rome....




Beats the hell out of those `C0N' Theories about it ;-)
-- 
A. TRENT PHILLIPS |" A mirror is a negative space with a frame and a place for
  also known as   | your face, it reveals what the rest of us see. It conceals
   WHITE  ROOK    | what you'd like you to be."--Blue Oyster Cult
-------bb099@cleveland.freenet.edu-----aa1439@freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu-------
Xref: sparky alt.atheism:25426 talk.religion.misc:25595 alt.pagan:15125