From: payne@ecf.toronto.edu (PAYNE DENISE JOYCE)
Subject: death of an rmi membership
Reply-To: sizone!ken@ee.ryerson.ca
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 06:57:50 GMT


This probably sounds sappy as hell.
 
I know I've been one of the main instigators here, but I have gotten around to 
posting some useful information. 

Next thing you know, some people are calling other people poseurs for posting
their record label's address, their label's catalog, tour schedules for bands
they're promoting that are of direct interest according to the charter
of this group to this group, etc. People are saying they want to listen
to "hard industrial" and that "Neubauten" isn't industrial, etc.
 
I dont see a point in posting anything helpful which isnt directly related
to Nine Inch Nails, Ministry, KMFDM, TKK and Severed Heads. This might seem
like a large range of styles, but it sure isnt, and isnt what industrial
is about. Not in my book. 

But in this paragraph it is. At this second, to me, that IS industrial. And
that is ALL what industrial is about. Nothing more. Genesis P-Orrige and
"Industrial" records no longer has anything to do with "industrial" as it
is represente in this group. Cabaret Voltaire has little to do with industrial
as it is defined here only because of their latest work, but, for example,
_Voice Of America_ has NOTHING to do with RMI.
 
In fact, _CITY SLAB HORROR_ has nothing to do with RMI. _CUISINE_ has
everything to do with it. FOETUS has NOTHING to do with RMI, but Clint Ruin
and Lydia Lunch's _DONT FEAR THE REAPER_ has everything to do with it.

Exclude :Zoviet France:, Lustmord, Boyd Rice (for he is an asshole), Laibach,
SPK (except their last LP, and their incarnation as TGT), Neubauten. Include
NIN, Ministry, KMFDM, Nitzer Ebb, Front 242, Front Line Assembly, and if you
keep your ears closed enough, admit Puppy, but not side 2 of Last Rites.
Admit Intermix and the latest Tack>>Head. Admit every softening of the
original incarnations of industrial into recyclable pop pap, to sell as
idealistic individualism for the non-individual with a lacking identity.
 
Admit heavy attitude here as well, and extract all forms of informing, 
expressing and communication. Exhume knowledge of the roots of a scene from
the crypt, for they should be stored elsewhere. Reinject that hole with
"With Sympathy", coupled with a chuckle, and dance to Over the Shoulder.
 
Extract anyone who is interested in disseminating information about the old
non-major lable dance bands, for they are the real poseurs and far to elite
to be listened to. What can they know? I come from a heavy metal background
I know what is shit when I hear it, Mufti. I know when Trent dies the group
mourns, then sighs in relief of his life, for a founding member of our 
culture has not passed away. Who would ensure the life of the founding
ideals of Nine Inch Nails?
 
Enough. But it is all true. There used to be real information on here, but
there is no longer. As soon as anyone mentions anything that the more
reactionary and less musically informed (IMNSHO _only_, not) deem unimportant,
they dont let it pass by for those interested to read, but pollute the thread
with calls of "poseur". Zorn is now a poseur.
 
hasta's right. I am one of the flamers here, but before I started there was
no information past the Severed Heads thread, the Negativland thread and
a few much smaller others. There's not even any point in posting anything
which I thought might truly be useful. Even now I await follow-up flames
for posting the Crash Worship tour schedule for being a poseur. So be it.
 
Yep, I'm not bothering with this anymore. Its a waste of my time. Its fun
to flame away incessantly, but this group is otherwise a waste of time. Like
a videogame. Fun, til you bore, but in the meantime it usually teaches
nothing. And mebbe I had something to offer, but I dare not encourage further
bandwidth wasteage by posting poseur material which I've otherwise
promised. 
 
Hearty sorry to those who were genuinely interested in what I have to send
here. I have very little actually, only 4 or 5 megs of about 4 years of
a few mailing lists as well as other media articles. Not much, but I know
it inside out so I can get to it quick, with cross-references just cause
I know what there is. 4 or 5 megs, mebbe 1400 or so files, but I am sure
there's something for everyone in there, and I can find it. Or I was
willing. Now there's no point.
 
To be fair, those that are interested just reply (email) to this post and
ask anything you want, and I will give you the info and send you the files.
I've set up the reply-to so it works right.
 
Lastly, I give up my hold on the word industrial. It means nothing at all.
Like rock and roll means nothing really anymore, except in uselessly vague
terms. I supposed this happens to all musical styles. Classical means
alot now too, too much. But I havent been around listening to classical
since it started and getting a bit alienated by new composers who come along
and try to call their works classical when its only been around as a style
for 5 years and the rest has for 400. Oh this gets close to the "whats new
and whats not debate", so I wont go further, but you get my drift. 

Newsgroups are not a place for serious discussion in anything which is not
an endeavour of hard fact. Way too much discipline is required for the
readers, or moderation to enforce it. Or a severely low readership of hardcore
fans. Alt.thrash thusly has no such troubles.

Good luck to those who wish to try and continue this group, I think it was
dead from the start. There are alternates for anyone truly interested. I
informed you of one above, person to person mail. Try it.
 
All the Matthew Neil Sharp's of this group are too much for it as well. Be
I one of them, I havent seen ONE MUSICALLY HELPFUL post from Matt and I've
made a few at least. He may say he's turned over a new leaf, but he's gonna
need a new tree at this rate. (Isnt this the fourth incarnation Matt?) Same
goes for FC9's ridiculousness. At least he showed a spark of original
interest, but communication was too hard, cause he got too much line
noise on his modem or something.
 
I'm turning over the best leaf and just leaving. Oh I know you dont all care at all, so its
great for al of us. Oh this is really sappy, but I wont be here for the
follow up postings. May you laugh amongst yourselves, cursed with eternal
bandwidth wasteage in your own group flaming eachother and not communicating. 

The clincher for all this, I must be fair, is not because of someone one
(on) this list at all, but rather by a type of person who I think exists here
in numbers.
 
Story: I go to the industrial video show that we are blessed with here by
Chris Twomey. (Those in TO who didnt go, blahaha! it was great. and I
did post about it.)
 
So isnt this great? It even shows videos by hype pop bands like Ministry
and KMFDM. So four fucking RMI-typical (oh, they _ARE!_) assholes are
there and as Nick Cave recites some most excellent prose, while Love Of
Life belts out the gospel according to Roli & cohorts while massively furious
stills flash on the screen like a trip through a demented art gallery, while
Mayuko Hino blasts us with incredibly pure noise generated by her fragile
body slamming instruments into submission... these ASSHOLES are yelling
shit like "FUCK THIS BULLSHIT! LETS SEE SOME NINE INCH FUCKING NAILS!" "GIVE
US TRENT! WE WANT TRENT!" "MORE MINISTRY!" "PEARL JAM! FUCK NICK CAVE AND
HIS INTELLECTUAL BULLSHIT! WE WANT PEARL JAM!".
 
I thought it was great cause they actually left when they didnt get what
they asked for, and instead had to sit through a huge slew of videos that
will never see the light of day on MTV or MUCH or anywhere else on any major
networks worldwide. And these people incited in me such an incredibly 
STRONG image of what RMI is really about that I dont want to be here.
 
To those assholes at the Rivoli last night: I hope you learned somethuing
for your $6 and enjoyed yourselves. I am sure you are on this list, cause
I've seen you post. Fuck you. Have your own opinions, but you didnt have
to ruin the show, and this newsgroup, for everyone else.
 
Anyway, its been fun, if not uninforming. Enough whining, you have what
you want now.
 
By the way, the hardest industrial is by a band called Guns N Roses. That
Neubauten stuff is pretentious bullshit. Get the GNR instead. It rules. Ask
Blixa.
 
/kc
Ken Chase
sizone!ken@ee.ryerson.ca
via payne@ecf.toronto.edu
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Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial