HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart)
Subject: Re: Tipper, etc... Be aware, Be awake
Followup-To: alt.discrimination
Organization: NY home for wayward dats
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:17:03 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.205627.4711@sco.com> steveha@sco.COM
(Steve Harris) writes:

>I tend to agree with the folks who see Tipper Gore's stance
>on record labelling as the position of a concerned parent.

A concerned parent only wants to control HER children's lives (which
is acceptable; that's a parent's job).  Tipper wanted to control MY
life, which is not acceptable.  Forcing someone to labels according to
an arbitrary standard promotes censorship.

If Tipper just wanted to help parents, she could have published a
newsletter rating albums (according to whatever criteria she wanted;
it's her publication), and sent it to everybody who wanted one.

>Consider the media approach to this issue...music industry
>hype and conservative buzzwords.  Tipper's political viewpoint
>was easily mishappen to appear Right-Wing radical by the media.

I don't care if it's Right-Wing radical, Left-Wing radical, or
Upside-Out Inside-Down (odc) radical.  I oppose censorship and
anything that promotes censorship.

>This reminds me of Affirmative Action and the media.  Affirmative
>Action took years to form as a policy, molded and pushed through
>the system by the hard work and sacrifice of thousands (if not
>millions of people).

Slavery took years of effort and lots of hard work by lots of people
(and I'm not talking about the slaves).  Does that make it good?

>  It was the first policy that rationally 
>effected progress for the blacks in this nation.  It was a very
>complex issue of overall fairness, history, and culture.  The
>key idea was getting disenfranchised people participating in
>the system.  Not perfect, but better than the current methods.

All those statements are arguable.

>The few people who were displaced were less-able white folk.

That statement is false, by definition.  Affirmative Action requires
you to hire minorities who are less qualified than other candidates.
If the minorities were more qualified, they'd be hired based on Equal
Opportunity.

>In came from the media...
>	Reverse Discrimination 

When you refuse to hire the most qualified candidate because of his
race, that's plain old ordinary discrimination.  Nothing reverse about
it.

>So everybody throws out the idea of affirmative action based
>on sound bites and irrational agenda, rather than re-examining
>and modifying it, preserving the essence (and labor).

The essence is discrimination on the basis of irrelevant attributes
(race, sex, name, ...).

Followups have been redirected to a more appropriate group.

Seth		sethb@fid.morgan.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: chris@ucselx.sdsu.edu (lemaire c)
Subject: Re: In defense of the Gores
Organization: San Diego State University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:48:50 GMT

In article <14k225INNg98@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU> ST702459@brownvm.brown.edu () writes:
>I don't have the handy feature that allows me to verbatim quote other
>people's message, but this is in reference to Chris Lemaire's msg #16144:
>
>Yes, YOU have other interests, thus this does not put YOU to sleep. The
>meaning of the message is: if all you care about is the Grateful Dead,
>don't bother reading on. 

Next question is, Jordan, DO YOU LIKE THE GRATEFULDEAD? If the answer is no then
why do you continue to carry on about this subject in this newsgroup.  I seem to
recall someone from Brown playing little knee jerk games over in rec.football
during the Super Bowl. Was that you, Jordan?

And take your condescending tone and stuff it pal. When you post an article
that is critical of the newsgroups central interest you are screwed.

a.m.f. Jordy.

chris lemaire.
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: Phydeaux <reb@ingres.com>
Subject: RE: So, who is Tipper?
Reply-To: reb@ingres.com
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 22:44:40 GMT

Tipper  Gore is the  wife of Democratic Vice-Presidential Candidate Al
Gore.  A few years ago she led a campaign to label sound recordings in
stores which had obscene or lewd language, etc. 
							reb
From: ijoseph@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Isaac Josephson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: ride to Phish/Santana from Chicago area on 8/1???
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:17:37 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.


	Is anyone driving from the Chicago area to the Poplar Creek Phish/
Santana show on the 1st? I have tix but no way to get there. My friend and I
will help with gas and misc. I'm up in Evanston, but if you can be reached by
CTA I'll meet you.


thanks,
isaac josephson
From: glambert@pyramid.com (George Lambert)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: Tipper Update
Date: 21 Jul 92 23:27:31 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology

In article <1992Jul21.210135.1266@samba.oit.unc.edu> chrisvh@med.unc.edu (Chris G. vanHasselt) writes:
>Just to add a little to the debate, I think we should all remember that 1)
>Tipper has not been nominated for any elected office, 2) her husband, who
>has a remarkably clear environmental agenda has been nominated, and 3) the
>opposition (Bush/Quayle) is probably more "pro-censorship" and definitely
>more anti-environment.

At last!!!  In this great "Tipper" debate, someone's posted something that
puts the matter into somewhat saner perspective.  Thank you, Chris.
>
>Unfortunately, we are once again forced to choose between the lesser of
>two evils.  Yes, there are other candidates out there, but basically I
>would rather put my vote behind someone who has the best chance of beating
>Bush/Quayle.  

Well, my party (Green) isn't sponsoring any candidates so we can support the
various initiatives for the environment, hopefully with somewhat better
success than wasting votes on a Green candidate ('wasting' here means that 
they wouldn't win).  For the first time in a long time, I feel that the 
Democrats are offering a ticket that is somewhat better than the 'lesser of
two evils' moniker.  Yep, they're still politicians, and yep, I understand 
that, but they are a far better alternative to Bush/Quayle, who have waged
a catastrophic war on your rights for the last 12 years (yes, that includes
the Raygun era.)  You're worried about Tipper and warning labels?  Hell, folks,
better check out what them Repubs have been doing with the Supreme Court!

>
>Personally, I think electing a ticket that has a strong(er) environmental
>agenda is much more important right now than anything else we can do.
>We've paid money for environmental benefit shows, we've donated money to
>environmental causes, we've written letters to our elected officials to
>support environmental concerns.  It hasn't crossed my mind to not vote for
>Clinton/Gore because Gore's wife wants a warning label on a 2 Live Crew CD
>that is so bad I wouldn't buy anyway...yes, believe it or not I have heard
>it and it is that bad.

Well, in fairness to Tipper, she has renounced her effort, saying that it 
wasn't such a good idea.  Forgive and forget.  Quayle, on the other hand, is
still after Murphy Brown and the tragedy of "unwed babies".  Yes, that's
right..."unwed babies"...a burning social issue in the purview of American
family values.  You decide.  He's a heart beat from the Presidency.
>
>You know, every four years I get the same "U.S. Blues", how bout you?

Certainly.  I feel somewhat better this time around.  I think there's a 
glimmer or two of hope.

George Lambert

"You better stop, hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look, what's goin' down?"
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: eli@spdcc.com (Steve Elias)
Subject: the Good Old Grateful Gores ?
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 04:37:17 GMT

hey there Jordan at Brown U!
lucky for me, i must have missed the posting with your 
original silliness about banning Ice-T's
cop killer song, or any other of his albums.  
PfuckingFooey on that shit.

what did you think when Dade Co. was banning Ice-T's albums along
with the 2 Chump Crew?  Ice-T's FREEDOM OF SPEECH album, that is.  
what's wrong with this picture?

for every posting you make against Ice-T's album, me and two
other gdead/rap fans are gonna go out and buy another copy!  
in fact, your opposition to Ice-T is prompting me to subscribe
my cat to Time magazine even though she thinks it is a rag.

is anyone really arguing about the Gore-u-lator & Tipper?
don't you all know who yer gonna vote for yet?  sheesh.

the press has been hyping Tipper's musical past lately!
drummer!  grateful dead album owner!  what next?!?

BOYCOTT BOYCOTTS.  

/eli
eli@spdcc.com

-- 
/* eli@spdcc.com */
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: brown@sunspot.noao.edu (Todd Brown)
Subject: Re: Some random questions....
Organization: National Solar Observatory/SP, Sunspot NM, USA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 16:17:45 GMT

In article <Jul.24.20.43.26.1992.18285@gandalf.rutgers.edu> burnett@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Gary Burnett) writes:
>
>Anyone who thinks that Donna couldn't sing should listen to the
>*great* high harmony parts she adds to the 5/19/77 version of The
>Wheel.
>
>There were times when she grated (pun intended), but plenty of
>other times when she really made a difference for the better.

There are several TMNS's that just aren't the same without her:-)

"There's a band out on the highway" ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>V<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 
>TODD|-ODD-|:-)                   |         Nothing Left To Do But  <
>brown@sunspot.sunspot.noao.edu  /|\             :-) :-) :-)        <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>V<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
From: columba!jol@alux2.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: RE: dogma
Date: 22 Jul 92 11:11:20 GMT
Reply-To: columba!jol@alux2.att.com
Organization: The Internet


|This kind of dogma is a serious problem.  Selling drugs (especially Cocaine
              /\/\/\

My karma ran over my dogma :-)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: chrisvh@med.unc.edu (Chris G. vanHasselt)
Subject: Re: Tipper Update
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 21:01:35 GMT

Just to add a little to the debate, I think we should all remember that 1)
Tipper has not been nominated for any elected office, 2) her husband, who
has a remarkably clear environmental agenda has been nominated, and 3) the
opposition (Bush/Quayle) is probably more "pro-censorship" and definitely
more anti-environment.

Unfortunately, we are once again forced to choose between the lesser of
two evils.  Yes, there are other candidates out there, but basically I
would rather put my vote behind someone who has the best chance of beating
Bush/Quayle.  

Personally, I think electing a ticket that has a strong(er) environmental
agenda is much more important right now than anything else we can do.
We've paid money for environmental benefit shows, we've donated money to
environmental causes, we've written letters to our elected officials to
support environmental concerns.  It hasn't crossed my mind to not vote for
Clinton/Gore because Gore's wife wants a warning label on a 2 Live Crew CD
that is so bad I wouldn't buy anyway...yes, believe it or not I have heard
it and it is that bad.

You know, every four years I get the same "U.S. Blues", how bout you?
chrisvh@med.unc.edu
From: glambert@pyramid.com (George Lambert)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: Who to vote for.
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:23:15 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology

In article <1992Jul23.053851.8593@uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU> harper!gmorelan@uunet.uu.net writes:
>going to put up with someone isnt at least wiiling to TRY for change. I have 
>decided that this election I'm voting for Andrea Moreau (I appologize if I 
>butchered the spelling) who is the Libertarian candidate, Unless Jerry Brown/
>Jessie Jackson miraculously decided to run as independants:^) But I urge you 
>to vote for ANYONE other than bush or clinton, even if its the nazi party...
>Well maybe not the nazi party, after all perot was a pretty scary idea;-)

You are welcome to your decision.  I used to be registered Libertarian, but
beyond it's stance on victimless crimes, I found the party's agenda to be
pretty bereft of positives, and full of a number of self-serving people 
(not you, this isn't a flame) more interested in anarchy than real gov't.
Under Libertarians, for instance, and their belief that business is all
good and that government should not fund things like national parks, I can
quite assure you that the environment would be in MUCH worse shape than it is
today.
>
>ODC:  Im really looking for the Rosemont Horizon shows from 89, can anybody 
>help...please?!

Good luck!

>"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world..."
>Just my humble opinions, dont make your flames too viscious, after all
>I DO have the right to exercize my freedom of speach (Thank Jah we still 
>have that);-)
>Peace to all...
>
Including you! :-)

George Lambert
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: East Coast Motivation- (War Story)
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:23:38 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Jul23.002140.21710@news.acns.nwu.edu> tindall@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Mike Tindall) writes:
>  I spent 2 weeks busting my ass because 30,000 or more city slicker
>bozos wanted to come up to 10,000' in the Rocky Mountains, where I
>was born and raised, in a primitive area, with no idea what they
>were doing there, and completely unprepared, (the BC sister didn't
>even have a jacket!) and play girl scout.  I got completely fed up 
>with self indulgent idiocy.  [...] A dozen wanna be deadheads got to hang out
>with a handful of real mountain hippies because I chose to get
>physically violent for the first time in over 10 years.

	So all that Rainbow stuff about how everyone's welcome and
Welcome Home and all that is just bullshit?  Too bad.  I am glad that I never
bothered to show up at any of those gatherings, though, I mean, if you need to
be an ex Green Beret and an expert in field surgery just to get by...  Reckon
I'll just stick to communing with nature without 30,000 other people and a
soup kitchen.

>  I really don't care [...]

	There's a lot to be said for living in isolation in harmony with the
world and what few humans are nearby.  There's a lot to be said for a vibrant
urban culture full of the synergy of many human minds working together.  The
Noble Savage may never starve, but will he ever reach the stars?

>hell do you think there's so many eagles up there in the Snowies?
>Y'all got eagles on the East Coast?  Southern California?  Them 
>pesticide infested corn fields in the Midwest?  Y'all ain't even got
>enough raptors to shove up a chickadee's ass in the midwest anymore.

	Hey eagle, where do you think them birds is during the winter?  Hmmm?
The answer is 'bout twenty miles north of here, near Marble Falls.  'Course,
we ain't got that much corn here.  Mostly cotton, oil, 'n  cows...  One
of the most encouraging things I've seen in the last 20 years is the return
of the birds, all birds, not just the raptors.

	And I never much liked Wyoming, either.  Just as dry as Texas and
a hell of a lot colder.  Actually, our plans are 40 acres in the Blue Ridge
and an organic goat farm, but we'll see.  Mean time I'm one of those poor
citified bozos...  Thus is the Tao maintained.

						Did ya say your name was
						Ramble On Rose?



Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: Steve -- The Other One <sjeck@isi.com>
Subject: Re:   parental warning Oh nO!
Reply-To: sjeck@isi.com
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 22:24:20 GMT

geoff@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com (Geoff Wells) writes:
|behold Meet the Beatles becomes mine! She loves you ya ya ya. I'm in seventh
|heaven. Dear ol' Dad comes home from the grind and says "Turn that shit 
|off!" And so begins a wonderful relationship between my Dad, Me , and rock
|and roll.

and to think my parents bought me "Meet The Beatles" as a Christmas
gift!  They never did like those Allman Brothers though :-)

Steve-TOO



Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: billw@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Bill Weisman)
Subject: Re: Lyrics request
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 00:51:36 GMT

rrussell@arghouse.UUCP (rrussell) writes:
>  Does anyone know the lyrics (and title of) 
>`He travels the fastest who travels alone?' 
>and the author, if known????

               The Winners
     or, ``The Story of the Gadsbys''

             Rudyard Kipling

What is the moral? Who rides may read
When the night is thick and the tracks are blind
A friend at a pinch is a friend indeed
But a fool to wait for the laggard behind
Down to Gehenna or up to the Throne
He travels the fastest who travels alone

White hands cling to the tightened rein
Slipping the spur from the booted heel
Tenderest voices cry, ``Turn again!''
Red lips tarnish the scabbarded steel
High hopes faint on a warm hearth-stone
He travels the fastest who travels alone

One may fall but he falls by himself
Falls by himself with himself to blame
One may attain and to him is pelf
Loot of the city in Gold or Fame
Plunder of earth shall be all his own
Who travels the fastest and travels alone

Wherefore the more ye be holpen and stayed
Stayed by a friend in the hour of toil
Sing the heretical song I have made
His be the labour and yours be the spoil
Win by his aid and the aid disown
He travels the fastest who travels alone

-- 
Bill Weisman/JPL Information Processing Center/464 W. Woodbury Rd., Altadena CA
billw@jato.jpl.nasa.gov                      UUCP: ...!cit-vax!elroy!jato!billw
From: lb04@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Laura Bassi)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: Do all dead shows sell out?
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:16:06 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Jul28.195448.20763@asuvax.eas.asu.edu>, ra@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (S
tarcap'n Ra) writes:
>
>     At the Friday Vegas show last May you
>literally could not give away a ticket.
>
>--Starcap'n Ra       {ames,gatech,husc6,rutgers}!ncar!noao!asuvax!kennedy
>                        {allegra,decvax,ihnp4,oddjob}--^
>                                          ^---------------The Wrong Choice
>                             internet: kennedy@asuvax.asu.edu
>
When's the last time this happened on the East Coast?
Can't say I remember....although I do remember available tix at the venue box
office, say like '85ish, Syracuse, perhaps?

peace, Laura
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: "Greg J. Pryzby" <gjp@virtech.vti.com>
Subject: TicketBastards Article in City Paper (Wash DC)
Reply-To: gjp@virtech.vti.com
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 20:06:47 GMT

For those who live in the DC area, pick up a copy of the City Paper. On
page 8 there is a discussion of how the surcharges are calculated and
why Wolf Trap (yea for them) uses Protix instead.

From Washington City Paper, Vol 12 No 31 July 13- Aug 6 
(reprinted w/o permission)

    There's also no question that TicketMaster and its ilk have changed
    concertgoing: Gone are the days when rock 'n' roll fans took days 
    off from work to camp outside the box office. Also gone, argues Bob
    Grossweiner, senior editor of the entertainment trade mag Performace,
    is the "socialization"-- i.e., schmoozing-- that was part of the fun.
    But Grossweiner believes ticket services have improved the concert 
    experience in other ways, namely by making it more convenient. 
    "Computerized tickets enhanced availability of ticket-buying," he
    says. "The outrageous price is a necessary evil."

It also tells "why" you still pay service charges when you buy the tickets
in person.

-- 
Greg Pryzby                                               uunet!virtech!gjp
Virtual Technologies, Inc.                                gjp@vti.com
Sterling, Virginia
Herbivores ate well cause their food didn't never run. -- Jonathan Fishman
From: stimac@figment.csee.usf.edu (Chris Stimac)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Who has the right(s)?
Date: 22 Jul 92 18:09:15 GMT
Reply-To: stimac@figment.csee.usf.edu
Organization: The Internet

There is a very old phrase that applies to this thread and a major ethical one in the scientific community.  
When talking about where do our rights come from and who has the right to decide what is right or is a right:
"Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes" - Juvenal Satires

"Who Watches the Watchmen?"
Peace
CRS
"If the game is lost then we're all the same,
No left, to place or take the blame"
From: pmc@world.std.com (Patrick M Chase)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: What's behind thoes sleepy eyes.
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:16:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: world.Brr1BF.Hx
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

In article <110509@muvms3.bitnet> rcbi105@muvms3.bitnet (Matt Leary) writes:
>I just got a new tape from my brother (Cap Centre 3/15/90) the other day and
>I can not stop listening to this tape.  Very hot first set with Jack Straw,

[...]
>This tape is very hot but wwhen I listen to this tape the same thing goes 
>through my mind....I really miss Brent....His voice is just so strong on this
>tape and his Easy to love you is just so sweet.  I'm not knocking Vince in any
>way because I really like him and I think he is bringing the Dead to a new 
>level but I hear the old tapes with his voice and his wonderful key board
>playing I just want to cry almost.  I have not heard that much about Brent
>for a long time and I was wondering if anyone feels the same.

Everytime I play a tape. It's the way he got better and better over the years
that gets me. Every "Mr. Fantasy" I hear hits me hard. Miss him like Pig. You
forget until you pull out a '90 board or hear an '82 Shakedown.

And yes, I nearly cry sometimes too...
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Patrick Chase                             InterNet: pmc@world.std.com   |
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+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: SLM121@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: exactly perfect
Date: 22 Jul 92 04:27:57 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

i think it was one of those "we've only got an hour to play so we're
not going to start playing yet"  things he was talking about in the
interview--all sorts of revolutionary implications there!

                                                 susan
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: yuf@sequent.com (Kyle Grieser)
Subject: Re: Phish@fuggles / rec.music.phish
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 17:47:28 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.150723.10814@nic.umass.edu> s3583045@titan.ucc.umass.edu (John Greene) writes:
>
>These groups function EXACTLY like dead-flames <-> rec.music.gdead.

Boy, I sure am tired of these comparisons with the Dead...

:-)

-yuf
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: jmaag@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Jeffrey Andrew Maag)
Subject: Re: Clapton/Hendrix
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 23:48:48 GMT

In article <wL52NB3w164w@wharf> speed@wharf.UUCP (carl mead) writes:
>Hey now,
>ODC (after all): I have just heard of a show with Jerry and Clapton 
>together.


Which show?


jeff
-- 
Internet: jmaag@csd4.milw.wisc.edu 
  Bitnet: jmaag%csd4.milw.wisc.edu@wiscmac3.bitnet 
{seismo|nike|ucbvax|harvard|rutgers!ihnp4}!uwvax!uwmcsd1!uwmcsd4!jmaag
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead