HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks
Subject: RE: PATHworks SPD summaries
From: "Genis Roca . CCUAB . 581 19 08" <CCGRV@EBCCUAB1.BITNET>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 14:42:36 +0200
Organization: Universitat Autonoma de Barcelona
X-PS-Qualifiers: /charset=dec-mcs
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
MIME-version: 1.0

>I found a listing on compuserve last night in the DECPCI forum called
>MASTER.ZIP which is a short description of all files in the forum.
>Library 1 appears to contain zipped SPDs, press announcements, and fact sheets
>for numerous DEC (and others) products. I can post this list if people are
>interested (or don't have access to Compuserve and are curious as to what's
>available).
>
>-Gary
 
 
I am very very interested.
I don't have a Compuserve account.
Thanks in advance.
 
 
______________________________________________________________________________
 
           Genis Roca                    Internet : genis.roca@cc.uab.es
                                         Internet : genis.roca@[130.206.10.17]
        Centre de Calcul                 Bitnet   : genis.roca@ebccuab1
      Facultat de Ciencies               Hepnet   : 16419::53287::genis.roca
Autonomous University of Barcelona       Iberpac  : psi%021452310244341::ccgrv
        08193 Bellaterra                 Ixi      : psi%020431453002010::ccgrv
              Spain                      Fax      : +34 35812003
______________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks
Subject: RE: Mail for Macintosh V1.1
From: Karen Moncrief 'Sr User Services Consultant' <MONCRIEF@TCUCVMS.BITNET>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 15:15:00 CST

You have to install the Pathworks Listener Init in your system folder. It can be
 
found in one of the folders on the Pathworks installation server.
 
Karen Moncrief
Texas Christian University
bitnet  Moncrief@tcucvms
internet  Moncrief@gamma.is.tcu.edu
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks
Subject: RE: LATCOM
From: TILLOTSON@ALISUVAX.BITNET
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 09:26:00 CST

     HOWDY!
 
     While we're talking about LATCOM, I'm wondering what kind
     of uses people have found for it.  Specifically, has anyone
     been able to use LATCOM to trick a terminal emulator
     program (like HPTERM) to use LAT when the term emulator
     doesn't support LAT?  We've been trying that around here,
     but haven't had any luck.  Any help would be appreciated.
 
     Jenett Tillotson
     Ames Laboratory
     (515) 294-7908
     TILLOTSON@ALISUVAX.BITNET
From: Gary_Lewington@mindlink.bc.ca (Gary Lewington)
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks
Subject: Re: PATHworks SPD summaries
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:31:58 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

> Gregg Pentecost X6228  writes:
> 
> 
> I was thinking that it would be good to make all PATHworks-related SPDs,
> product announcements, etc. available through the list.  I don't know how
> your local office is doing, but we sometimes have trouble getting
> announcements, order numbers, SPDs, etc.  I've even had CSC ask me for
> part numbers before!
> 
> 
> 
> Gregg.  (PENTECOST@BROOK.BITNET)

I found a listing on compuserve last night in the DECPCI forum called
MASTER.ZIP which is a short description of all files in the forum.
Library 1 appears to contain zipped SPDs, press announcements, and fact sheets
for numerous DEC (and others) products. I can post this list if people are
interested (or don't have access to Compuserve and are curious as to what's
available).

-Gary

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|~|_____      Gary J. Lewington    | Internet:    Gary_Lewington@mindlink.bc.ca
| /     \     VAX System Mangler   |
| ||@         Chemex Labs Ltd.     | Compuserve:  71033,1177
| \_____/     212 BrooksBank Ave.  |
| |________   North Vancouver, B.C.| Phone:       (604) 984-0221
|_/_______/   Canada   V7J 2C1
From: CCCYKWOK@CPHKVX.BITNET (C Y Kwok (Postmaster))
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks
Subject: RE: "Notify Node" in PATHWORKS MAIL
Date: 28 Jul 92 09:22:00 GMT
X-Organization: Computer Centre, City Polytechnic of Hong Kong

>From:  IN%"LANWORKS@MIAMIU.BITNET"  "A discussion of Digital's PCSA product" 28
-
   JUL-1992 00:54:15.74
>To:    "C. Y. KWOK" <8CCSF015@CPHKVX.BITNET>
>CC:
>Subj:  "Notify Node" in PATHWORKS MAIL
>
>Received: from JNET-DAEMON by CPHKVX.BITNET; Tue, 28 Jul 92 00:53 +8
>Received: From HKUVM1(MAILER) by CPHKVX with Jnet id 5105 for 8CCSF015@CPHKVX;
> Tue, 28 Jul 1992 00:53 U
>Received: by HKUVM1 (Mailer R2.08 PTF008) id 5101; Tue, 28 Jul 92 00:52:36 HKT
>Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 17:39:40 GMT
>From: "Judy Constantine, 617495-0517" <LANWORKS@HUDCE0.BITNET>
>Subject: "Notify Node" in PATHWORKS MAIL
>Sender: A discussion of Digital's PCSA product <LANWORKS@MIAMIU.BITNET>
>To: "C. Y. KWOK" <8CCSF015@CPHKVX.BITNET>
>Reply-to: A discussion of Digital's PCSA product <LANWORKS@MIAMIU.BITNET>
>Message-id: <1C675DDA52FF400123@CPHKVX.BITNET>
>X-Envelope-to: 8ccsx503, CCCYKWOK
>
>        I'd appreciate any advice on a minor yet annoying problem
>        we've come across in using MAIL on a PC on PATHWORKS:
>        one of my users is now using a networked machine that used
>        to belong to someone else.  Whenever the previous user
>        receives mail, the new user is notified on the PC.
>
>        I've deleted the previous user's MAIL.INI file; we've
>        reconfigured the new user's mail setup file... I don't know
>        where else to look to solve this problem.
>
>        Suggestions?
>
>                                        Judy Constantine
>                        internet:       constant@hudce0.harvard.edu
>                        bitnet:         constant@hudce0.bitnet
 
Login in as user SYSTEM, from VMS Mail, remove the other user's forwarding
address, e.g.
 
        show forward/user=the_other_user
        set noforward/user=the_other_user
 
CY
=============================================================================
C Y Kwok                                   Voice:     +852 788-8253
Systems Analyst (Network), Postmaster      Fax:       +852 788-8281
Computer Centre                            Bitnet:    CCCYKWOK@CPHKVX
City Polytechnic of Hong Kong              Internet:  cccykwok@cphkvx.cphk.HK
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks
Subject: RE: Asynch Pathworks
From: "C Y Kwok (Postmaster)" <CCCYKWOK@CPHKVX.BITNET>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 09:10:00 +8
X-Organization: Computer Centre, City Polytechnic of Hong Kong

>
>        I'm attempting to start Pathworks over 9600 baud modems.
>    Everything seems to go well in that the script, Dialdyn.scr, logs
>    in and switches the terminal to decnet and then starts decnet on
>    the PC com port. The link comes up but every 3 minutes it goes down
>    and back up with the message that line synchronization is lost.
>    Any attempt to access the line kills it. DEC support told me that
>    I should stick to 2400 and not even try 9600. However, at 2400, the
>    script makes the connection but the circuit never gets beyond the
>    "synchronizing" state. I've tried a variety of modems with and without
>    MNP enabled and I'm hoping that I've just missed some NCP parameter.
>    If anyone has done any work with this, I'd really like to hear from
>    you. Thanks.
>
>                                Johnny Hendricks
>
>                                Johnny@Ducvax.auburn.edu
>                                Johnny@Auducvax
 
We have 2 staff running Async DECnet connections to our campus at 4800 bauds
with no problems. We haven't tried 9600. We encoutered similar problem as
yours and we set the HELLO TIMER on the circuit to a large value, say 300,
instead of the defaut 15. We also set the LINE RETRANSMIT TIMER to 6000.
 
Hope this helps.
 
CY
=============================================================================
C Y Kwok                                   Voice:     +852 788-8253
Systems Analyst (Network), Postmaster      Fax:       +852 788-8281
Computer Centre                            Bitnet:    CCCYKWOK@CPHKVX
City Polytechnic of Hong Kong              Internet:  cccykwok@cphkvx.cphk.HK
=============================================================================
From: DVWOODALL@TAYLORU.BITNET (David Woodall)
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks
Subject: Z-Stations, anyone?
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:49:00 GMT
X-VMS-Cc: DVWOODALL

Greetings fellow PathWorkers,
 
We just received a new Zenith Z-Station 486 PC with their new built in
network card.  Looking at the documentation it appears that we need to
purchase the appropriate "adaptor" (transcever?) for either thin-wire
or 10-Base-T.  The NIC card itsself has an AUI connection on it.
 
However, Pathworks is NOT one of the choices to select when installing the
network software.  (I didn't really think that it would be.)  The three
options are: Vines, Netware and Lan Manager.
 
Has anyone played with one of these and gotten it to work under Pathworks?
 
David Woodall
Systems and Development Leader
Taylor University
DVWOODALL@TAYLORU.BITNET
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks
Subject: DEC 433pc
From: Craig Farrell <CF0@PSUALT.BITNET>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 09:30:00 EST
Original_To:  PCSA

We just picked up 20 DEC 433pc systems for our student lab.  After
setting them up we noticed one thing we didn't like.  On power up
the bios presents an option on the screen to press F1 to enter setup.
We don't want the students to have that option.  Do all DEC PC's
handle setup this way?  We talked to DEC about this and they said
there wasn't anything they could do about it.  They said there were
no other complaints about it.  We need some way to disable the
option to enter setup at boot time.  We would like to be able to
access setup with a reference disk like IBM does.  I don't think
we will be buying DEC PC's in the future for an educational
environment if the setup remains as such.  I was also disappointed
in DEC's lack of interest in the problem.  Has anyone else faced
this same problem.
 
       Craig Farrell                       Penn State Altoona Campus
       CF0@PSUALT.bitnet                   225 CLRC Building
       (814) 949-5295                      Altoona PA,  16601
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks
Subject: Intel Etherexpress anyone?
From: SYSMGR@IPG.PH.KCL.AC.UK
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 10:38:32 BST
Via:           UK.AC.KCL.PH.IPG; 29 JUL 92 10:34:04 BST
Originally-to: EARN"lanworks@miamiu"
Originally-from: PHCLUS::SYSMGR       "Nigel"
Mailer:        Janet_Mailshr V3.4 (23-May-1989)

I would like to know whether the new Intel Etherexpress boards are Pathworks-
friendly, as they are quite a bit less expensive than SMC (WD) boards. Would
anyone care to share their experience?
 
	Thanks in advance,
 
		Nigel Arnot
 
		NRA%ipg.ph.kcl.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk   (internet)
		NRA%uk.ac.kcl.ph.ipg@ukacrl.bitnet        (bitnet)
		etc...
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks
Subject: Pathworks Infoserver
From: HAND@MARSHALL.BITNET
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:45:00 EDT
X-Organization: Marshall University

X-VMS-News: muvms3 list.pcsa-l:3388
 
> From: "Themistoklis I. Pentakalos (410) 455-3981" <MIS5000@UMBCADMN.BITNET>
> Subject:Pathworks Infoserver
> Date: Mon, 01 Jan 88 00:00:00 GMT
> Message-ID:<06225283@mu.mail.19920423>
 
> Hello again,
>
>
>         I access an infoserver 100 from my PC using Pathworks
> Infoserver software. During startup time, I notice this message
> on my screen when Autoexec.bat executes:
>
>         Drive N: = Driver $LADCD unit 0
>
>         I understand what that is but I don't know how to specify
> the driver to alocate another virtual Drive...
>
>         Is there any qualifier that can be passed when I load the
> LADCD driver in my Autoexec? I have already designated the N:
> drive to be something else and it has been like that for years.
> It's not easy to break old habits...
>
>         Thanks again,
>
>         Themos
 
        I'm confused.  Our ladcddrv.sys is in our CONFIG.SYS not autoexec.bat.
Are you using a different driver?  Also If you set the /N: to another number
(in the config.sys) when MSCDEX loads (in Startnet.bat) you will also get
unit 0, unit 1 ....  The date on our Ladcddrv.sys is 7/08/91.
 
        Good luck
 
        Art Hand
        Marshall University Computer Center.
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks
Subject: RE: Software...
From: AWOSBORNE@GENVAX.COMPUTER-CENTRE.POLY-OF-WALES.AC.UK
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 09:24:00 GMT
Via:      UK.AC.POW.GENVAX; 22 JUL 92  9:23:53 BST

	Hi Brad Murray,
 
	Yes please, I'd like to have a few utilities that'll
	help us.
 
	I've tried to do the things that your proggies do, using
	DCL, but there's only so much that a devious mind can
	achieve with the various outputs from the admin/pc menu.
 
 
		Thanking you in advance,
 
			Nye Osborne.
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks
Subject: Home grown PCSA utilities
From: Bob Findlay <FINDLAY@JII.AFRC.AC.UK>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 10:04:00 GMT
Via:      UK.AC.NSF; 23 JUL 92 10:04:47 BST
Via:      uk.ac.afrc.jii; Thu, 23 Jul 1992 10:04:47 +0100

There must be dozens of pathworks utilities out there.  How about everyone
posting a list of what they've got?  Then perhaps some kind soul can provide
some disk space somewhere where we could upload them?  To start the ball
rolling, we have
 
PRINTSERV	-  Gives the user a list of printers to select.  Each dept.
		   can have tailored lists, but still have access to a full
		   one.  Printers are given proper names i.e.
		   HP Laserjet III in room 1.11
 
FILESERV	- Connects to a user's VAX account
 
 
There are more, but I need to get out of mail to check exactly what
 
So come on - how about it?
 
Bob
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks
From: marten@ilt.fhg.de (Lutz Marten)
Subject: Automatic broadcast message when a PC connets to PathWorks
Keywords: pathworks broadcast
Reply-To: marten@ilt.fhg.de
Organization: FhG-ILT
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 11:10:56 GMT


Hello,
I have problem solving a task including the PathWorks for MS-DOS Broadcast Utility.
What should be implemented:

Sending a broadcast message using PCSA BROADCAST <pc-node> "Any text !"
when a PC connets to the PathWorks server using the unmodified 
STARTNET.BAT built from NETSETUP.

So I need to find out from the VAX/VMS side any new PC which starts up.
It is easy to realize a job running with wait or a restarting batch job.
But how can I find out a PC which starts up from DCL or a simple C program ?
ThanX !
Any suggestions are welcome !
--
# Lutz Marten,  Postmaster and general dogsbody 
# Fraunhofer-Gesellschaft Institut fuer Lasertechnik 
# BITNET: KQ040MA@DACTH11 , InterNet: marten@ilt.fhg.de                        
# HEPNET: 13533::52714::MARTEN, Phone: +49/241/8906-112, -0
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks
Subject: Version Questions
From: Dave Goodwin <GOODWIN@SMCVAX.BITNET>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 08:35:00 EDT

Would anyone care to comment on the following discussion?
 
We are performing our annual summer maintenance, and I need to decide what
approach to take regarding Pathworks vs. VMS updates.  I am reluctant to go
to VMS 5.5, which seems to be having more than its fair share of problems.
Any opinions on that issue?  Also, we're at V4.0 Pathworks now, and I wonder if
there are significant improvements in 4.1.  Will it work with VMS 5.4-2 if I
choose not to install the new VMS?  Any important v4.1 bugs I should know about
in advance?
 
Thanks for any comments.  Private replies are probably better than flooding
the list, but I'll summarize if anyone is interested.
===========================================================================
Dave Goodwin                                   |
Assistant Director, Academic Computing         | We're all kinds of animals
-----------------------------------------------| coming here.
BitNet   : Goodwin@SMCVAX.BITNET               |
Ma Bell  : (802)654-2220                       | Occasional Demons, too.
US Mail  : Saint Michael's College             |
           Winooski Park, Colchester, VT 05439 |           -Jethro Tull
Ham Radio: N1HRO @ W1KOO.#NWVT.VT.USA.NA       |
===========================================================================
From: yingling@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks
Subject: Mail for Macintosh V1.1
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:27:42 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

	Greetings!

	I've been attempting to get a "feature" of Mail/Mac V1.1 
	to work with no success.  The new documentation for the 
	product does not even show/suggest how to accomplish it 
	(I really suspect that the cover was the only thing changed 
	between the V1.0 and V1.1 product. ;> )

	In the new version, the user has the opportunity to set both 
	local and remote preferences.  The remote preference allows
	the user notified at a node when a new mail message is received.  
	(This DOES work on the PC Mail product.)

	When I set it nothing happens...no beep, no dialog box...
	no error messages in NETSERVER.LOG files...has anyone managed 
	to implement this at their site for the Macs?  If so, what 
	did you do?

	yingling@hcob.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks
Subject: RE: Intel Etherexpress anyone?
From: JMAASKANT@UTHSCSA.BITNET
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:18:00 CDT
Original_To:  JNET%"lanworks@miamiu"

> >I would like to know whether the new Intel Etherexpress boards are Pathworks-
> >friendly, as they are quite a bit less expensive than SMC (WD) boards. Would
> >anyone care to share their experience?
> >
> We test drove two of these cards about two months ago.  They worked fine for
> LanMan and Novell Netware, but we were unable to get them to work properly
> with Pathworks.  A Sniffer trace showed the client PC attempting to locate
> a server, the server answering, but the client apparently not noticing, and
> the whole cycle repeated.
 
Which version of pathworks are you running?  I haven't had any major
trouble installing them with pathworks 4.1 here, and since I'm
considering recommending them to the user community I'm very interested
if there's a problem with them.
 
Cheers,
Jan (Jmaaskant@uthscsa.edu)
From: Brad_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca (Brad Murray)
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks
Subject: Software...
Date: 21 Jul 92 22:59:48 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

I just got my hands on the USELIB.LIB from the unsupported utilities disk and
quickly wrote a few hacks with it.  If anyone thinks they might be useful, drop
me a line and I'll send you the .exe, source, and a copyleft notice.

WHOZON.EXE   USEAGE: whozon service
             Lists all nodes connected to the specified service.  Useful
             for figuring out who's tying up that user-limited Excel
             file service.  :)

CONNZ.EXE    USEAGE: connz client
             Lists all current connections for the specified client.

PASSENT.EXE  Takes a username and password and sets the user's decalias.dat
             via ncp, then connects M: to his VMS directory.  We use this in
             autoexec like so:
                                del c:\decnet\decalias.dat
                                passent

             so that we can avoid as much password entering as possible
             without sacrificing tooooo much security.  Makes network start-
             ups very easy on the user.
--
Brad Murray                                        Brad_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
The Zoroastrian Atheist Sect believes that the Magna Carta proclaims
the divinity of Adolf Hitler, and claims that we should strive for
Martyrdom.
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks
Subject: PATHworks Backup SPD summary
From: Gregg Pentecost X6228 IC44 <PENTECOST@BROOK.BITNET>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 11:40:00 EST

To date, I've had 33 requests for the PATHworks backup SPD.  I was unable
to respond to a few requests, so I encourage anyone who received it to
send a message to the list offering to send the SPD out.  If anyone
installs it, I'd like to hear how it goes & works.
 
I was thinking that it would be good to make all PATHworks-related SPDs,
product announcements, etc. available through the list.  I don't know how
your local office is doing, but we sometimes have trouble getting
announcements, order numbers, SPDs, etc.  I've even had CSC ask me for
part numbers before!
 
Petri, how about it?  Are the SPDs available for FTPing anywhere?  If
not, seems like it would be a good service, if it doesn't violate any
network guidelines.  Could you, or someone else, forward such messages to
the PATHworks FTP site and make an announcement on the list?  (In
hindsight, that's what I should have done with this SPD, so I'll upload
it this week.)  Or do you have any alternate suggestions?
 
Thanks.
 
Gregg.  (PENTECOST@BROOK.BITNET)
From: Brad_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca (Brad Murray)
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks
Subject: RE: Okay okay already!
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:21:31 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

> Bob Findlay writes:
> Is there a reason for not using pathworks mail's binary attachment feature?

Yup -- when I'm doing this network stuff I'm not on a networked machine.  I'm
athome calling a commercial Internet connection.
--
Brad Murray                                        Brad_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Zoroastrian Atheist Sect believes that the Magna Carta proclaims
the divinity of Adolf Hitler, and claims that we should strive for
Martyrdom.
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks
Subject: RE: Mac & Ethernet problems
From: "Joerg Oertel, VAX Systems Manager" <oertel@VMS.MPIIB-FREIBURG.MPG.DBP.DE>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 04:18:11 -0400
P1-message-id: DE*DBP*MPG;920723101210
Priority: normal
X400-Trace:   DE*DBP*MPG; arrival Thu, 23 Jul 92 10:12-0100 action Relayed
X400-Trace:   de*dbp*GMD; arrival Thu, 23 Jul 92 10:12+0200 action Relayed

>We have a Mac SI with an Ethernet Adapter.  We have System 7 installed.
>We also installed Ethertalk V2.2 from our System 7 distributions.
>
>We are not able to connect to the VAX through Ethernet.  If we try to
>configure NCP on the Mac for Ethernet using the line setting, we get
>"Could not find Ethernet Driver" when booting up.
>
>Trying to select Ethertalk in the network control panel results in a message
>like which indicates an error and that the localtalk port will be used
>instead.
>
>The system is able to make a connection with the VAX through the localtalk
>interface which has a FastPath Gateway onto the Ethernet.
>
>What gives?  Can someone help?  (There is a greenlight showing from the
>position where the Ethernet connector actually connects).
>--
>Joe Kmoch                             Washington High School
>kmoch@whscdp.whs.edu                  Computer Specialty
>(414)449-2765                         2525 N. Sherman Blvd
>(414)444-9760 x5488                   Milwaukee, WI  53210
>
 
   I had exactly the same problems a few days ago. I called the
   dealers support and they told me that I have to install the
   ethernet driver from the disk which have been shipped with the
   ethernet board and then reboot. It took 35 minutes (30 minutes ti
   find the disk and 5 minutes to install). It works great now.
 
    Joerg
 
  ..Joerg Oertel,VAX systems manager, Max-Planck-Institut fuer Immunbiologie..
  ................. Stuebeweg 51,  D-7800 Freiburg,  Germany .................
  ............... Phone: +49 761 5108465  FAX: +49 761 5108221 ...............
  .................... PSI: PSI%(0262)45761030173::OERTEL ....................
  ......... X400: S=OERTEL;OU=VMS;O=MPIIB-FREIBURG;P=MPG;A=DBP;C=DE; .........
  ..... From Internet: oertel%vms.mpiib-freiburg.mpg.dbp.de@relay.cs.net .....
  ..... From Bitnet: oertel%vms.mpiib-freiburg.mpg.dbp.de@dfngate.bitnet .....
  ............................................................................
   It's not enough to have no opinion. You must also be unable to express it.