From: devin@colorado.edu (No one in particular)
Subject: Re: is it the body or the brain?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:03:59 GMT

Pre-message disclaimer:  I am speaking opinions here.  I have mostly
anecdotal evidence to back up my opinions, but they work for me.  If
they don't work for you, ignore them.

Russ Williams (russw@cs.utexas.edu) wrote:
: I tend to think of the body's sex as neither right nor wrong, but
: just whatever we happened to be born with.  I think our sexual
: identity comes mostly from socialization not from genes.

Comment:  Distinguish sexual identity/preference from gender identity.
I'm talking about gender identity (and I think you are too).  Sexual
preference is another issue.

: I'm aware
: that this view is not common.  But there's so much evidence of how
: children are treated differently according to their sex, e.g.
: teachers paying more attention to boys and encouraging them to do
: math while teaching girls to just be quiet and pretty, all that jazz.

Most TSes are outwardly their genetic sex, and are therefore VERY likely
to get treated as their genetic sex during childhood.  Especially given
the still-rigid gender roles in this society.

: I incline to the theory that TS folks who feel like they're in the
: wrong body started out like the rest of us, a non-sex-identified
: mind in a male or female physical body, and just got socialized
: differently.

I think this explanation is too simplistic.  But I'll come back to that.

: To me, sex is like race, etc.; it's a physical attribute of our
: body that certainly does have social implications (women and blacks
: are treated differently from men and whites) and it certainly
: affects our self-view.  They even both affect sexual preference
: for many people.  But, at risk of offending some posters, I'm
: not sure that the idea of "a male trapped in a female's body"
: makes much more sense to me than the idea of "a white trapped in a
: black's body".  But then I seem to feel less gendertyped than
: average; if it were cheap easy & safe I'd switch my sex back
: and forth at whim...  And I've always been skeptical of people
: claiming real qualitative differences between the sexes, e.g.
: cliches like "women are more intuitive, men are more logical".

I've observed before that people seem to have different 'levels' if you
will, of gender typing.  Some people are not strongly gender typed, and
therefore have a hard time understanding those who feel strongly one way
or the other.  (And vice versa, by the way.)  And, by the way, I believe
that I'm just barely strongly gender typed enough that I'm uncomfortable
in my body.  Not _quite_ unbearably so, but bad enough that I'd really
rather not have to live this way for the rest of my life.

People who make claims like "women are more intuitive, men are more logical"
are talking about gender stereotypes and gender roles, not gender identity.

: I would be interested to hear whether folks who feel they are
: definitely in the wrong sex body for them attribute this to
: inherent stuff (in your genes or your soul, depending on your
: mental framework :-) or to your upbringing and socialization.

I personally believe that being transsexual requires a juxtaposition of the
right genes, the right pre-natal environment, and the right environment.
(Or wrong, if you see it that way.)  I know (or know of) people with very
similar environments as I who are not gender dysphoric at all, and people who
are TS who had very different environments.  On the other hand, I know of
lots of people whose mothers went through similar situations as mine did
during her pregnancy with me, and they are still quite "normal".  Thus,
I think it's a combination of factors.

Regardless of why, there's the very important question "How do I cope with
my feelings?"  While I've wondered about the why (often, in fact), I'm
much more concerned with the how of living my life.  My feelings are what
they are, and I have to deal with them; I have to live with myself first
and foremost.

End of soapbox.  :)

			-Deb

--
Deborah Parks (RP90)  (SotM 7/91)  DoD #0034  deb@boulder.colorado.edu   ------
"It's being both that's a bitch."                                      --\--- /
"I wanted to take my brain to hell and back and see what I had left."  \  \ //
"This howling in the distance, it's a captivating sound.                \  \/
        Can't tell if it's ecstasy or pain..."  -DW                      \/
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered