HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lwall@netlabs.com (Larry Wall)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: emergency techniques (was Re: Cathedral Pk. Accident, Yosemite)
Date: 22 Aug 92 20:39:16 GMT
Organization: NetLabs, Inc.

In article <1992Aug21.174604.22402@novell.com> cranch@novell.com (Christopher Ranch) writes:
: In article <1992Aug20.212555.318@halfdome.sf.ca.us> bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us (Bob Pasker) writes:
: >In article <1992Aug21.013132.7368@novell.com>, cranch@novell.com (Christopher Ranch) writes:
: >> In article <TED.92Aug20185538@aeolia.nmsu.edu> ted@nmsu.edu writes:
: >>>There ain't nothin' in this world that's worth being a snot over.
: >>>	Larry Wall
: >> 
: >> 	I'd be most interested in a explanation of this technique...
: >
: >simple: coun't to ten before you get angry, don't cuss and keep your elbows off
: >the table. 
: >
: >-- 
: >-- bob pasker
: >-- bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us 
: >--
: 
: Good one!  You forgot 'leaving the toilet seat down'...  Really, I'm 
: interested in the munter hitch technique that won't twist the rope that
: Larry mentioned.

You mean Ted.  I was only being a snotty signature quotee.

Larry
From: monmhs@ipx07 (Michael Schindler)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Climbing in 'Massiv Central' in France
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:49:34 GMT
Organization: PPG Hellige, Freiburg, GERMANY
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Hi,

Is there anybody who can give me information about climbing
in the 'Massiv Central' in France ???

                     Thanks 



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
NAME :  Michael Schindler                  |  medicin electronics
EMAIL:  monmhs%ppgfr.uucp@germany.eu.net   |  ppg hellige 
PHONE:  (germany) 0761-4011-480 direct     |  Heinrich v. Stephan Str. 4
FAX  :  (germany) 0761-4011-446            |  D-7800 Freiburg i. Br.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------  
--
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Why 5.7 is harder than 5.10 (was ratings)
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 03:26:52 GMT

>1) The MAJORITY of people I have met who CLAIMED they could "climb" 5.10
>never LED 5.10.  These are people who followed or top-roped it.  Frequently
>climbed 1-3 years, some with vast experience on climbing walls and some
>outdoor stuff.  As always there is the exception who did a 5.9 for his
>first climb and a first ascent 5.10b for a first lead.  A little difference
>exists.
>
>2) Many of said people are typically great on face in good conditions,
>but have limited experience on cracks, in corners, in mixed (take your choice:
>free/aid or rock/ice) conditions, at some elevation above sea-level, or with
>a good sized pack.  Counter-force climbing is not intuitive, occasionally
>tough on the hands, and not for everybody.
>
There is a certain wicked humor in watching one of the aforesaid
5.10 (and up) climbers experience one of Yosemite's clasic 5.6
chimneys for the first time.  Heh, heh, snicker, snicker.
Xref: sparky rec.climbing:3027 rec.backcountry:6162
From: scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Flashbulbs (was: Public Perceptions)
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:09:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvca.1992Aug14.180917.1283
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (A. Lani Teshima) writes:
: 
: If you would like to take panoramic photos on your hike, but feel
: uneasy about using single-use cameras, I would suggest the RE-USABLE
: panoramic cameras.

What is reusable about these cameras?  Do you mean that you (personally/
easily) can replace the film?

Scott Linn
scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: belay pro was Re: Cathedral Pk.
From: mtemple@calstatela.edu (Mark Temple)
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:24:37 PDT
Reply-To: mtemple@calstatela.edu
Distribution: world
Organization: Cal State University, Los Angeles

> kjones@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (Kent Jones - EECS) writes:
> >So much for my experience with marginal protection... 
> >What does everyone else think? 
> 
> Well, since you ask ....
> 
> 
> It is much easier to judge how solid a big nut is than a small one.
> When I am using small wired nuts for a belay, I tend to want at least
> 3 or so of them, but I feel pretty happy anchored to just my big mother
> camalot in a perfect crack.
> --
> 	Tom Trebisky	ttrebisky@as.arizona.edu

Don't blindly trust active pro, especally the big stuff.  I've seen a 
#4 camalot walk to the edge of a crack from side to side tugs at a belay,
I was arainging the haul line and stuff when it happened.
As for small nuts, I've aided and fallen on #2 steels with confidence.
This has been in yosemite valley on good granite and in J.T. on the
more solid stuff there.
I don't think any one rule holds for climbing,
   except maybe the one my partner holds to,
      "I refuse to die rock climbing by my own fault"

mark 
mtemple@calstatela.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jc@optimla.aimla.com (John VanHoozer)
Subject: Re: Let's all be average, Re: height etc
Reply-To: jc@optimla.aimla.com (John VanHoozer)
Organization: OptImage Interactive Services Co., L.P.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 20:32:32 GMT

There are two disticnt disadvantages to being tall in general.
Extra weight and (usually) trying to find large shoe sizes!

I'm tall(ish) and thin (6' 0" 150#).  _Most_ of the tall people that
I have taken climbing all weigh more than 200# and in general have
size > 11 feet.  Most stores don't carry shoes for these people.

just my $0.02

				jc

-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
John C. VanHoozer			     |
OptImage Interactive Services Company, L.P.  |  uunet!{optimage,aimla}!jc
11040 Santa Monica Blvd., Suite #300	     |  Fax:  (310)445-5720
Los Angeles, Ca. 90025			     |  Phone:(310) 445-5721
___________________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer:
   Opinions,  yew doone neeed my steenkeeng Opinions.

Carpe Diem:  A carp a day, that's all we ask.
From: tom@afthree.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Amazung week in CA
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:39:36 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair) writes:
>It seems that whenever there is an accident near cliffs or in the mountains
>the victim is reported by the media as a 'rockclimber'. No doubt things get
>warped as they go along, ....

And every non-climber "friend" I have rushes to ask me, "did you hear
about the guys that got killed 'climbing' up on the mountain this weekend."

One case I remember, when you read the story, you discover they spent
the morning in town playing golf, then decided to go up the mountain
to cool off (I would wager a bit of alcohol got consumed along the way),
they get out to look around and one fellow decides to jump across a chasm
and misjudges, looses his footing, ....  No ropes or technical equipment,
wearing tennis shoes (or cowboy boots).  And it gets billed (the headline
at least) as a climbing accident.

>Presumably it's because the media find it more sensational to say that
>an experienced climber fell on a serious and technical route rather than
>reporting that an inappropriately prepared or experienced wanderer got
>lost and walked off same route in the fog.

You bet.

One thing I have learned about newspapers is to ignore the headlines and
read the article, often they have an entirely different story to tell,
it seems that rather few people do this.  I wonder if one person writes the
story, then someone else writes the headlines to emphasize sensational
appeal.
--
	Tom Trebisky	ttrebisky@as.arizona.edu
...."There's no sense in being precise when you don't even
.... know what you're talking about." 
                       - John von Neumann
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 13:02:47 EDT
From: jim bowers <FQV@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: More info on Climbing Wall book and Petrogrips

Petrogrips also has other rock types available including quartzite,
eldorado canyon formation sandstone, and Pocketed Limestone.  The Pocketed
limestone is really cool - no other modular hold anywhere compares.

The Pocketed limestone is available in limited quanities for $7.50.

Shipping charges are:  $6 per order Eastern time zone
                       $8 central
                       $10 mountain
                       $12 pacific

If anyone has any specific questions please feel free to call, (814) 867-6780.

Also, I'm still looking for other rock types for making these things.
If you know of a good source for cool holds send me some samples.  I pay
10% of the selling price for raw stock.

                                 Jim Bowers
Xref: sparky rec.climbing:3112 rec.backcountry:6369
From: leathley@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Scott Leathley)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: unexpected hazards of climbing
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:01:06 GMT
Followup-To: rec.climbing
Organization: Boeing

In article <80717@bcsaic.boeing.com> kew@bcsaic.boeing.com (Keith Williamson) writes:
>
>However, the goat went right up to Yvonne and starting licking her
Hey, doesn't this kinky kind of stuff belong in alt.sex?

Seriously though, my fellow Boealper, Pete Allen and myself spent a long 
weekend dancing with the goats in the Enchantments.  We dealt with a heard of
11 goats, billies, nannies, and kids.  They were looking for salt too.  They 
went around from camp to camp looking for fresh piss.  Fortunatly, these goats
weren't as agressive as the ones in the Olys.  Otherwise they might have been
using us as drinking fountains :-).  We had to keep everything in the tent to
prevent them from getting slimed too.  Good thing we dicided not to just bring
bivy sacs.

Our main misfortune was not at the hands (tongues) of the goats though.  Early
Monday morning (2:15AM) we started up the W. ridge of Prussik Pk. leaving 
Pete's pack at the base of the route.  We had decided to do a moonlight ascent
due to the great weather and BRIGHT 3/4 moon.  It was a awesome climb as we
arrived on the summit just as the sun was beginning to rise.  Too bad I didn't
put film in my camera (what a ditz!).  Anyway, after rappeling off the N. face
and returning to the pack, we found that some varmint had chewed a gaping 4"
hole in the top of Pete's MEC pack to get to some trail mix.  As if getting
bopped on top of his helmet by a 4" rock on our repel wasn't enough.  We half
expected to see his truck broken into at the trailhead upon our return (bad
things come in 3's).  Overall it was a great weekend though.

Trailhead crime (theft, vandalism, etc...) has become a real promlem here in
Washington.  How is it else where? 

Climb on,
Scott Willi
-- 
       !!! IGNORING WHAT I SAY IS THE RULE, NOT THE EXCEPTION !!!
Scott Leathley      \\ leathley@bcstec.boeing.com // "Climbing may be hard,
Boeing D&SG 7-6766   \\   uunet!bcstec!leathley  //   but it's easier than
M/S 9F-36  657-8311   \\\\\\\  ###         ///////    growing up."
From: sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Amazung week in CA
Date: 18 Aug 92 08:10:52 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

Eugene writes that five people have died in CA this week
(Well, one was a hang glider accident)......

Hang gliding *IS* climbing isn't it? As is hiking, 'sport rapelling'
playing in the river,  sitting under a cliff eating sandwiches and 
a whole lot of other activities that require no ropes, shoes, runners
or chalk but just happen to take place in the mountains or near cliffs.
(I guess sport rapelling does use ropes etc but you get the drift I'm sure).

It seems that whenever there is an accident near cliffs or in the mountains
the victim is reported by the media as a 'rockclimber'. No doubt things get
warped as they go along, but I was told that the year before last, out of
4 accidents reported to involve rockclimbers, one was a real climber who
fell on a route, one was a lad and his girlfriend - she fell off a ledge
while they were looking for somewhere secluded (presumably), one was a
little girl who pulled a rock on herself at a family pic-nic and one was
a scout who got into difficulties in the river. I'm sure that the original
stories were probably not as above, but by the time they reached me, they
all had become "there was another climbing accident". This seemed to be
particularly bad a few years ago when hikers getting in trouble on Ben
Nevis in Scotland were reported as climbers, ice-climbers, mountaineers
and in one instance 'technical climbers'. I've never seen an activity that
requires tennis shoes on a wide trail in snow and ice that could be 
called technical anything (technical getting lost and freezing to death maybe) 

....Wondering why this seems to happen,
Presumably it's because the media find it more sensational to say that
an experienced climber fell on a serious and technical route rather than
reporting that an inappropriately prepared or experienced wanderer got
lost and walked off same route in the fog. Gives us a lot of unecessary
bad press though. I also wonder though if, because I am a climber (or so I
like to think) that stories get twisted around and therefore involve
climbers by the time I hear about them. Do hang glider pilots, cavers and
kayakers have similar problems.

Which reminds me, last night I heard about a nasty mountainbiking accident
in Moab a couple of years back. Good rider, lots of experience. Always wore
a helmet and kept his bike in good shape died. He was putting said bike on
his rack and an RV reversed into him.
                                           's true.
Bob
bobs@biocat.ncdmf.usu.edu                             (Bob the Alien)
From: ovc@cwis.unomaha.edu (Stephan Guthrie)
Subject: WANTED: Old gear to buy
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 16:28:31 GMT
From: cptully@med.unc.edu (Christopher P. Tully,Pathology,62679)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: emergency techniques (was Re: Cathedral
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:46:15 GMT
Reply-To: cptully@med.unc.edu
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine

In article 27324@sophia.inria.fr, luong@cuba.inria.fr (Quang-Tuan Luong) writes:
>
>Friction rappelling is the last thing to do. If you have still an harness,
>which is likely when you climb, and a few or a single carabiners (quite
>frequent also when you climb), you have best make an emergency descender.
>
>Tuan.

but it helps if you know how...  I was taught how to construct 5 different 
rappels, by a climber who has used all of them.  Although I have no intention 
of using a body rapel if I can avoid it, I know enough ways to get of that I 
seriously doubt that i will ever be stuck.

Chris.
---
*********************************************************************
Christopher P. Tully				<cptully@med.unc.edu>
Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill		1122 Vic Charles Dr.
Department of Pathology				Raleigh, NC 27606
CB# 7525			work: (919) 966-2699
Chaple Hill, NC 27599		hone: (919) 851-8816
*********************************************************************
 All opinions above are Copywrite <current year> Christoper P. Tully
From: dak@biosys.apldbio.COM (David Knorr)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: pesky varmints
Date: 21 Aug 92 22:19:01 GMT
Organization: Applied Biosystems, Inc., Foster City, CA

developed recurring problems with something (squirrel or marmot)
eating through my pack.  Mostly at the Lover's Leap area, but they'll
do it anywhere.  THe first time I was really pissed.  Came down to
find the entire upper pouch of my pack riddled with holes.  My lunch
was still intact though.  The last time something chewed on my straps.
I think the salt idea probably correct, I just wish they wouldn't
munch on my pack cloth so much.  After the first time, I soaked the
pack for a couple of days then washed it real good.  That didn't work either.

No problems with gear thieves yet.  Just lucky I guess.

Dave Knorr


Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: Munter Hitch
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:12:27 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept


>And, on the matter of avoiding twisting your rope:

% Those twists are sneaky little devils.  The CCW twists will always tend
% to accumulate at one end while the CW twists will stay at the other end.
% (Serriously).  As you feed out the rope you twist the rope between the
% hitch and your partner, the other twist is between the hitch and yourself.
% By the time you get to your end of the rope the twists will be twisted
% around each other and ends up being a pain to feed through the hitch.
 
% Unfortunately, the twists are not like electrons and positrons which
% meet and destory each other releasing energy.  CCW and CW twists just
% twist themselves together into an even larger twists which causes you to
% release large amounts of energy (usually in the form of four letter words).

ARS
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: bruceg@Cadence.COM (Bruce Gustifson)
Subject: Re: Stupid quotes
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:56:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.155625.17079@ncar.ucar.edu> ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes:
>1) "When in doubt, run it out!"  (Bill Wright)
>2) "When in doubt, dog it out!"  (Bill Wright)
>3) "When in doubt, hike back to the trailhead, get in the car, drive to
>   the nearest drinking establishment, and have a beer!"  (Ilana Stern)
No, No, No...It's "When in fear, have a beer!" That'll fit on a T-shirt.
>
>Ok, it doesn't fit on a T-shirt...
>
>Ilana
>"Pull-up or shut up!"
>
>-- 
>/\        Ilana Stern DoD#009 | Whoever first said, "Things are seldom as they 
>  \_][    ilana@ncar.ucar.edu | seem," was wrong.  Things are usually as they
>      \_______________________| seem.  Otherwise, they wouldn't seem that way.

************************************************************************
"Would you believe it if you     |  Pepsi ad campaign in Thailand;
saw it with your own eyes?"      | Come alive with the Pepsi Generation
   Asked the woman               |    In Thai translates to:
"That depends"                   | Pepsi will raise your ancestors
    Replied I                    |	from the dead.
***********************************************************************
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Re: Overhangs
Date: 21 Aug 92 20:53:19 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

>be 5.0 to me.  Yep, now you have a new example - overhangs on 5.0.

This would make me wonder what Chapman Overhang just outside Camp 4 would
be rated.  Not that you could place pro on it since a fall would take you
all of six inches or a foot on your back. ;^)

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: murray@src.dec.com (Hal Murray)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Please explain the rating system
Date: 13 Aug 92 03:28:35 GMT
Organization: DEC Systems Research Center

"4th class" is one of those wonderful terms used by guidebook writers to add
adventure to a trip.  Here are the meanings that I know of:

In the old days, 5th class meant pitons and 4th class meant it was done without
pitons.  Slings around trees or horns were OK.  Since they are usually more
common on easier climbs connecting a technique with the difficulty isn't a silly
as it might be.  Sometimes we would (proudly) report that we had 4th classed
a section that was 5.6.

In the mountains, it frequently means that somebody in the party will be bold
enough to lead it without putting in any pro.

On modern topos, it means easy but exposed.  Easy being relative to the general
difficulty of the climb.

Sometimes it means you can't get in any pro, either because the rock is too junky
to hold any, or because there aren't any cracks.  I think it was the Snail in
Pinnacles that went from 4th class to 5.8 when somebody added a bolt.


As far as Humphreys goes, I was glad to have a rope.  Airy.  Fun.  I suggest a
few big nuts.  We used them.
From: j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: questions on other grade systems
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:56:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpfcso.106480251
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA




I'll take a shot at a few of these grading questions.

1) C2 vs. A2 - "C" usually indicates clean aid - no hammering.

2) A0-A6 - I'm not really into aid climbing; just enough to have done a
           few walls.  The upper end seems to change with time.  The best
           definitions I've seen lately have been in the magazines.  Once
           you get to A5 and A5+ I think it's defined by how many tens of
           feet you fall before hitting a ledge!

3) B1-B3 - B1 is definitely easier than B3.  Gill originally defined B3 to
           be something that a lot of really good climbers had failed on and
           only one had succeeded.  If it gets a second ascent it is dropped
           to B2+ or even B2.  This leads to a lot of compression over the
           years.  The exact translation for B1 and B2 depend on the area.
           Our area was home turf for Gill for years so things are a bit
           stiff.  I'd say:
           B1- == 5.11b - 5.12a  (most likely lld / 12a)
           B1  == 5.11d - 5.12c  (most likely 12b)
           B1+ == 5.12c - 5.13b
           B2  == how the hell would I know?  B1+ appears to be my limit.

4) PG, R, X, S, VS - I think these have gotten more popular than you realize.
           Erickson back in 1980 used " ", "R", "X" to define good pro, 
           chance of injury, likely serious injury / death, respectively.
           More recently Rossiter (and Van Horn at Shelf Rd.) have used S
           and VS to mean Serious and Very Serious (I think).  All of these
           are "protection" or "danger" ratings.  They have nothing to do
           with difficulty.  I like this system.


Mort 
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: murray@src.dec.com (Hal Murray)
Subject: Gunks Shoes?
Keywords: Gunks Shoes
Organization: DEC Systems Research Center
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 07:42:28 GMT

What sort of shoes to people use at the Gunks these days?

Last time I spent much time there was back before sticky rubber.  In those days
we used stiff soles.  I still have my blue RRs.

An additional complication is that my feet are far from pointy so they don't like
most modern shoes.