From: steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu (Steinn Sigurdsson)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: Subsidies for Roads and Cars in the USA
Date: 7 Oct 92 00:10:01 GMT
	<STEINLY.92Oct6115823@topaz.ucsc.edu>
	<1992Oct6.193053.24104@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com>
	<1992Oct6.223753.13743@vexcel.com>
Organization: Lick Observatory/UCO
NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.ucsc.edu
In-reply-to: dean@vexcel.com's message of Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:37:53 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.223753.13743@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska) writes:

   In article <1992Oct6.193053.24104@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com> c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:

   >In article <STEINLY.92Oct6115823@topaz.ucsc.edu> steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu (Steinn Sigurdsson) writes:
	And the innermost but is PBD's

   >>   such food, and encourage others to do the same. Here in the PNW, I can
   >>   grow or buy salad crops locally all year around. I humbly suggest that
   >>   those living in regions where this is not so easy either alter their
   >>   diets and/or seek methods of year-round farming that will work for the
   >>   foods they'd like to eat.

   >>Might I humbly suggest that Alaskans, many Canadians and others
   >>in climates inimical to farming for more than a fraction of the
   >>year move ASAP to PNW or California that they may enjoy the benefits
   >>of locally grown fresh produce year round - especially if they have
   >>problems with diets high in animal fats, salt or nitroamines - unless
   >>you're willing to bet on significant warming in the immediate future

   Areas that have extreme climates such as you mention tend to also have
   more limited populations willing to deal with those extremes.  That
   means that the range of _activities_ which are sustainable is
   increased.  

Actually most of them are born there, didn't have much choice.
Moving any significant fraction of the population is environmentally
costly and politically destabilising, they are for the most part
willing and able to obtain out of area unseasonal foods, how do you
propose preventing them from doing so? Shut down all trade? I should
note that my ancestors historical response to this problem was to
go take what we needed until external factors stopped us. 

   >Even in relatively mild areas of the United States, where agriculture
   >is a major factor in the economy, the statements of the original poster
   >are not allways applicable.
  
   [Whats wrong with corn?]
   Were food consumption to based on locally sustainable agriculture as
   Paul suggests, then these areas would have a more diversified 
   production.  A more diversified production would be healthier for
   the soil, also.  

There are inhabited areas where _no_ agriculture is possible
without high technology and high cost - do you suggest the inhabitants move,
accept a potentially unhealthy diet or continue trading for their needs?

One of the main motivators for subsidy of local agriculture
to reduce dependence of food imports is the fear of starvation
during war and embargoes - thus arguably interdependence due
to reliance on food trade is a strong motivator for peace,
how do you factor that in?

*  Steinn Sigurdsson   			Lick Observatory      	*
*  steinly@lick.ucsc.edu		"standard disclaimer"  	*
*  Some people think they're really clever			*
*  Smash your head against the wall            Specials, 1979	*