HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bz269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James D. Del Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm cheapo car backup
Date: 26 Dec 92 00:17:27 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, bz269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James D. Del Vecchio) says:

#This gun (A-90 .45 in my case) is very accurate and reliable.  It can do
#tiny (~1") groups 25 yds.   I don't know what else you could be looking for.
       ^^^

	I must have been kind of delerious last night.	8-)

	Looking at my targets, I have some one hole five shot groups at 
	33 ft, and some one hole groups with a sloppy extra hole or two 
	at farther distances (my shaking hands).   I've handed it to better
	shooters to watch them do one hole groups at 33 or 50 ft.  It always
	shoots where I point, and has always made tiny groups when rested

	Last year I sent it in no charge to make it shoot dead on at
	25 yrds	with Rem 230 gr FMJ*.  It came back with a one hole group
	test target with handwritten "from rest, 25 yds, Rem 230 gr ball",
	and the guy I always talk to at Interarms assured me that it was
	legit and he did it personally.   

(* Now 100% on the nose w 230 gr at 25 yds. 
There are four interchangable rear sight 
blades.   I just put in a taller one for I sent it to the factory 
to get the sights adjusted for 185 and 200 gr, but I haven't tried 
it yet.  The blades are inexpensive ($4) and can be ground down to
shoot lower.)

	Jim Del Vecchio
From: reber@ceres.rm.fccc.edu (John Reber)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Info wanted: .22 cal. pistols
Date: 22 Dec 92 15:06:07 GMT
Organization: Fox Chase Cancer Center


|>> #The Government is very well made, and balanced, and is my second choice behind
|>> #the Browning...he Mark 1 Target shoots just as well as the Government for me,
|>> #but one thing i don't like about it is that the slide doesn't lock back after 
|>> #the last shot...
|>> 
|>   The Ruger Mark II does lock back after the last shot.  I've never shot
|> a Mark I.
|> 
|> --henry schaffer
|> 

My fault, I should have been clearer...it's the Mark 1 that doesn't lock back

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
					John P. Reber
Internet:    j_reber@fccc.edu		Fox Chase Cancer Center
Phone:	     (215) 728-3633		7701 Burholme Ave
Fax:	     (215) 728-2513		Philadelphia, PA 19111
	     "The more people I meet, the more I like my dog"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Stuff for sale
Date: 22 Dec 92 00:00:13 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

Stuff for sale:

Mossberg 28" modified plain barrel			$40

Melprolight Sights for HK P7[m8/m13/m10]		$65

Tasco Propoint #sgpd2, for Mossberg 500			$85 OBO

All prices are shipped.

-c
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu
From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock numbering.
Date: 3 Jan 93 22:59:27 GMT
Organization: The Courts of Chaos * 501-985-0059 * Public Access Usenet


-> The Glock 18 is a limited-production full-auto machine pistol
..
-> full auto.) The rate of fire is truely excessive: 1200 rpm. Glock
-> also produced a 33-round magazine for this pistol.

 Well, my MAC-11 is 1400 according to the book, and when loaded hot
cycles even faster.  It's far too fast to be useful as an SMG.  The Army
supposedly did a study (it's mentioned in Janes, I think) and determined
the optimum rate of fire for an SMG as 350 RPM.  The Thompson ran about
450 depending on the variant, and was a close as anyone ever got.

 BTW, a MAC sounds nothing like the soundtrack on the idiot box.  If I
could get the rate of fire that slow I'd be thrilled.  It sounds more
like an outboard motor.  Very briefly, anyway.
From: evore@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Eric J Vore)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Sawed-off Shotguns
Date: 23 Dec 92 02:31:50 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University


[MODERATOR:  I think this is an entirely reasonable question, but unfortunately
it will lead us to topics more appropriate for posting in t.p.g.  Could those
of you with input please pass it directly to Eric off line, perhaps CC in t.p.g
and then perhaps we could bother Eric to formulate a summary of responses to 
be reported here.... thanks one and all!]

     Could any one explain to me the rationale behind the
prohibition of sawed-off shotguns?  Here in Ohio your barrel
length must be 18" and the total length of the gun, some other
figure like 28"(?). 
     To me it seems odd that with handguns with 2" barrels and
the like, that concealability could not be the only reason.
     Is it a question of the enormous power of the shotgun
cartridge and/or the lack of a "legitimate sporting use" for such
a gun?  If so, is there a limit to the muzzle energy that a
civilian handgun/firearm can legally expend?  Is this just some
odd BATF regulation?  Would it be illegal to make a "pistol" (or
a very short "shotgun") which shot a 410 slug?  Seems like a .44
Mag. would have a greater "destructive potential", yet cutting up
your old 410 is a felony while owning a .44 is perfectly fine.
Somebody please elaborate.
Thanks!    Eric Vore...
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: FYI: "Guns that won the West" on A&E
Date: 22 Dec 92 00:00:32 GMT
Organization: Sun

In article <1992Dec21.002518.2272@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au> ghm@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller) writes:
#
##From my recollection of books about the period (i.e. I read a lot of
#westerns whan I was younger:-) what the buffalo hunters most wanted
#to avoid was spooking the herd.  If they could drop an animal cleanly
#the rest of the herd would carry on grazing, apparently not associating
#the noise of the shot with any danger.  Although the herds were large,
#the conclusion that the hunters just fired into the mass is wrong.
#Accuracy was of paramount importance.

Hitting and injuring a bison would likely get the whole bunch moving.
So much for shooting from *that* position for a while.

##It seems to me like the buffalo hunters also had this little gadget
##they carried around in the back of a wagon called the "Gatling Gun"...
##Of course, I could be mistaken...but this would seem to back up
##the NRA's claim that there are legitimate sporting purposes for
##full-auto weapons. :-) :-)
#
#I suspect you are mistaken.  This may have been done on film but
#(for the reasons given above) it wouldn't have been very productive
#in practice.  

And expensive.  These guys were in it for the money.

#Anyway, what sort of a cartridge did the early-model
#Gatling guns fire?  Would it have been powerful enough to kill a buffalo
#with anything other than a _very_ lucky shot?

I believe that the most-common cartridge used by the Army was .45-70.

The Gatling gun was produced for everything from there on up to a 1"
version for the Navy.

--
-------------------------------------------------------
| Some things are too important not to give away      |
| to everybody else and have none left for yourself.  |
|------------------------ Dieter the car salesman-----|
From: donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AMT Longslide?  Any good?
Date: 29 Dec 92 01:49:48 GMT
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA

In article <1992Dec23.003119.1632@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com
(E. Michael Smith) writes:
#ARRRGGGGUUUU!!!!  Is there ANY Colt clone company that hasn't/isn't
#going under?  First I settled on a Springfield, then I was told they
#were winding down operations.  Then I thought about a Real Colt, and
#was told they were Chapter 11 (or some such).  Now I find out that
#AMT is doing multiple Reorgs...

I was recently told at a gun shop that Springfield is going to stay open,
though it was closed for a week or so for reorganization or during an
acquisition.  Does anyone know the straight scoop?

I hope they stay open, I've settled on a 1911A1 as my .45 of choice...

Happy New Year,

    don
From: chris@MorningStar.Com (Chris Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: light .44 Magnum loads?
Date: 24 Dec 92 18:40:27 GMT
Organization: Morning Star Technologies

In article <9212211532.AA05285@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov> weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (daniel weed 283-4162) writes:
#
#
#I don't understand something I read in my re-loading manuals.  I want to
#load up some .44 Special class loads in .44 Magnum cases for target
#practice, using jacketed bullets.

First off,  If these are just for practice, wouldn't it be a LOT cheaper
to load wadcutters and save your jacketed bullets for your hot loads?

#
#Looking through the Speer and Sierra reloading manuals, I read NOT to load
#44 magnum jacketed bullets lighter than the minimum recommended load.
#For example, a 240 gr jacketed bullet can be loaded to around 10.5 to 11.5 gr
#of W-231, but no less.  But looking at the same bullet in the 44 Special 
#loading, it is backed up by around 6 gr of W-231.
#
#So if I can load it with 6 gr in a .44 Special case, why can't I load the 
#same bullet with 6 gr in a .44 magnum case?

I had always thought that the reason they didn't show mild loads for 
jacketed bullets was simply because no one would ever want to load them
that way.  I hadn't noticed the warning you mentioned.  In this case, it
must have something to do with the tighter tolerances needed in the 
magnum revolvers?

#
#The same warnings exist for 38 Special/357 Magnum loading data.
#
#
#BTW, a while back I asked for everyone's favorite .44 Magnum loads
#and powders and general net wisdom on loading the .44 Magnum.  I plan on 
#posting a summary after the new year.  If anyone out there would still like to 
#contribute to net wisdom on .44 Magnum loading, E-mail me before 1/5/93.
#(I would have already posted a summary if I wern't working so much
#_uncompensated_ overtime lately... :-(  ).


240 gr XTP, w/24 gr of 2400

(BOOM!)

#
#Thanks,
#
#-- Dan
#
#------------------------------------------------------------------
#Daniel Weed                             weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov
#McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Co. - Houston
#          "My comments are my own, not my employer's"
#
#


Chris Miller
chris@MorningStar.Com
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M1911 operation
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:51:59 GMT
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi

In article <1992Dec30.131609.14606@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula) writes:
#In article <1h4rioINN57f@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar) writes:
##
#[ Very good description of one-handed decocking of 1911 deleted for brevity ]
##
#
#Believe it or not, as I understand it, this was an intentional design
#feature of the 1911. It was intended to allow one-handed decocking of the 
#1911 while mounted on a horse (i.e. in cavalry (sp?) units). I wonder if
#more than one trusty steed has bit it due to accidental discharge? :-)
#
What about boarding parties? Does anyone else remember the movie "Sand
Pebbles"? When the Americans attacked and boarded  the chain of Chinese
junks the CO went over with his .45 in his LEFT hand and his saber in
his right. I wonder when was the last time something like this really
happened?
-- 

Donald R. Newcomb                * Life only admits two states: 
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu        * growing and dying. So what,
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet            * if I've put on a little weight?
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Clays powder, clean as they claim?
Date: 1 Jan 93 14:38:52 GMT
Organization: Circle 'C' Shellfish Ranch, Shores of the Pacific, California

A recent magazine article claimed that 'Universal Clays' from Hogdon
was a very clean powder aimed at the 'Unique' market.  Anyone
tried any of the 'Clays' line yet?

I like Unique, but it is, um, rather dirty sometimes... a 'clean' version
would 'make my day' ;-)

The article described the 'Clays' line as being 'green' in color due
to the lack of a graphite coating (said coating does several things
in typical smokeless power:  Easy flow, spark/static reduction, 
combustion inhibitor {burn rate control}) They claim to have found
a new way to achieve the good things that graphite does while they 
eliminate the dirt aspects of the graphite coating...

There are now a couple of 'Clays' powders, with 'Universal' being
only the newest.  They are mostly intended for the shotgun market,
but are also of interest to hangun reloaders.  If anyone has used
'Clays' in either shotgun or handgun loads, was it as clean as 
the hype, er, article claimed?

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LAWS Rocket sub-cal kits
Date: 22 Dec 92 18:46:01 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)

A standard LAW launcher with the submunitions kit. ?
Just watch the backblast. They put a nice puff of smoke
when they hit. $50.00 a pop...join the Guard and get to
shoot one 5 or 6 times a year. Pay to shoot one, NFW.
It's not that much fun launcher + 6 rounds = $540.00
for 6 minutes (and some of them are duds 1@100).
-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
#1/XS1100LH	#2/10/10/92
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.bellcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I Don't shop in malls, I BUY my jeans, jackets and ammo
in the same store.
From: keith@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca (Keith de Solla)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: canadian gun laws
Date: 26 Dec 92 00:17:22 GMT
Organization: Canadian Microelectronics Corporation

In article <199223.4199.13914@dosgate> patrick.eves@CANREM.COM (Patrick Eves) writes:
#
#KD>Though I have yet to confirm this, I have heard that some weapons
#KD>that were 'missed' on the first onslaught of newly restricted weapons
#KD>will be on another list coming out in January.  If this is true it
#KD>is likely that the following weapons that are currently not-restricted
#KD>may appear on the list:
#
#KD>Ruger Mini-30/14
#KD>M-14/M-1
#KD>SKS
#
#Keith,
#
#When you typed "M14/M-1", did you mean the M-14 and the semi-auto civilian 
#version, the M-1A, or the original M-1 Garand?  The last info I had from the
#gov'ment specifically exempted the M-1 Garand from the restricted category,
#probably on the grounds that the 8-rd. clip was un-alterable.  I'm rather 
#concerned as I informally collect WWII vintage rifles and I'm rather proud of
#my M-1.  I'd hate to see it melted down.
#---
# ~ DeLuxe} 1.25 #12341 ~ CLOSE COVER BEFORE STRIKING
#--
#Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
#World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
#

oooops.  I meant the M1 as in the Springfield version of the M-14.  It is
possible that the M-1 Garand could go on the restricted list.  However, it
was exempted by name from the 5-round magazine limit.  If it does become
restricted, it means more paperwork but there should be no reason why you
can't keep it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
| Keith P. de Solla, P.Eng |  "Be sure brain is engaged before    |
| CMC                      |   putting mouth in gear"             |
| keith@orion.ic.cmc.ca    |                                      |
From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: re: Armor Piercing Pistol
Date: 3 Jan 93 22:59:33 GMT
Organization: The Courts of Chaos * 501-985-0059 * Public Access Usenet


-> Basically, the "favorite" configuration is a lathe-turned
-> brass projectile with a pointed conical tip, and a chamfered base
-> .357 Mag         75g 2100 fps

 The density of the material is a problem, as it's difficult to imagine
a 75 grain projectile being worth much against Kevlar.  Perhaps a steel
cap on a lead bullet would be more effective?  You'd also have lead or
jacketed lead against the rifling.

 Since I have a lathe and a press, perhaps I should experiment.
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 10 mm autopistols
Date: 2 Jan 93 18:44:06 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1i308gINN75d@mirror.digex.com> curt@access.digex.com (curt williams) writes:
#I keep hearing vaguely worded criticisms of the 10mm cartridge, but I
#can never get any specifics.  I understand that the FBI dumped the
#10 after having problems.  Were these problems:
#     1)  feed problems (possibly caused by FBI-required modifications
#     2)  overpressure problems causing damage to the pistols
#     3)  control problems caused by recoil and/or blast
#????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

#Does anyone know the real story?

I'm not sure, but...
The FBI initially wanted an autoloader with a more powerfull found than
9mm/.45. The 10mm was developed/adopted to satisfy this. However, they
decided that the recoil and muzzel flash were excessive. To solve
this problem, Federal began producing "FBI Lite" 10mm, a 10mm cartridge
with a reduced powder load. Unfortunately, the reduced powder load 
gives ballistic preformance in the 9mm/.45 range. So, ultimately
the FBI was using a large, 10mm cartridge that wasn't significantly 
more powerfull than a 9mm or .45... The size of the 10mm carries with
it several disadvantages (lower magizine capacity, a larger, less
concealable pistol, etc...) Which left the FBI with the disadvantages
of the large caliber, but none of the advantages. I'm not sure about
the last step, but it's easy to see why they might give up on 10mm
and switch to 9mm or .45 (or even .40 S&W).

                                                   Frank Crary
                                                   CU Boulder
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: NEW Soviet Armor and Helmet for sale.
Date: 29 Dec 92 19:01:54 GMT
Organization: University of Kentucky, USA. -5 GMT

I have a friend with the following for sale:
A NEW Soviet battle helmet (armor) with a bullet-proof 3/4" lexan (like)
face shield. It also has KGB in the serial number. He wants $500 for it.
He also has a body suit of the latest Soviet armor. It has the groin-plate
and wrap-around kidney plates. Very heavy-duty. He wants $500 for it as well.
The helmet is supposedly the only one in the country (he says). He was in
Moscow for several months recently.
Anyone have any info or advice on this stuff?
Both are NEW in perfect condition.
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 45-70 Govt - .410 compatible?
Date: 1 Jan 93 23:57:15 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <1993Jan1.003524.11368@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
# ...
#Just wondering...  Since the [T/C] .45LC/.410 is not legal in the Peoples 
#State of California,  ...

#(For those who are wondering:  I have a TC, but would like something
#fatter than the .357 bbl. {which I have}.  I can get a .44 Mag, but
#the .45 LC {which I really want} is not an option in Ca.   ...

  T/C is not the only company which makes barrels for the Contender.
It is my understanding that it is the .410 aspect of the .45LC/.410
which makes the T/C barrel unacceptable in CA, so another brand
(I've seen info on at least two other makers, but the only name
I remember is BullBerry) which is .45 LC only is probably ok in CA.
I'd look for ads in Rifle or in Handloader.

--henry schaffer
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .22 First Rifle
Date: 29 Dec 92 19:01:36 GMT


The Daisy .22 rifles were introduced about 5 years ago. They were
definitely designed for low cost: the receivers are cast, and the
barrels are steel sleeves in a cast Zamak (aka pot metal) octagonal
outer shell. Looks okay though. A nice feature is that the wood-
grain plastic stocks are adjustable for length.

Other choices are the Chipmunk rifles from the US, the Lake Field
.22s from Canada (company founded by former employees of Cooey, a
now-defunct reputable maker of good, inexpensive .22s), and the
Chinese "JW" .22s (finish a bit crude but solidly made from good
materials; my "JW8" is very accurate and has a fantastic trigger).


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
Geordi: "...it's like the laws of physics went right out the
window." Q: "And why shouldn't they? They're so inconvenient."
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .380 Derringer
Date: 31 Dec 92 01:26:07 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

ksw9324@zeus.tamu.edu (WASHBURN, KENNETH SCOTT) writes:

#Has anyone had any problems with the Davis Ind. .380 auto caliber derringer?  

#Saw it in a gun shop for only $69.00.  The .22 magnum derringer was the same 
#price.  At that price it is hard to go wrong.  If one were to load the .380 
#version with Glaser safety slugs, this would be an adequate self-defence pistl

Well, they are cast from zinc, with steel barrel sleeves, so I don't know
about how well they would stand up to pressure.

I also wonder if using Glaser's wouln't _decrease_ the effectiveness
of the gun over using hardball.   Glasers are designed for low penetration,
and .380 is not famous for penetration in the first place.

JD
From: patrick.eves@canrem.com (Patrick Eves)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: what does sks mean?
Date: 3 Jan 93 03:38:25 GMT


CC>Does anyone know the meaning of the SKS designation of the SKS model 56?


Hi, Chris,

SKS = Samozaridnya Karabina Simonova

The last two words translate to "Carbine Simonov", Simonov being the name
of the designer.  As for the first word, maybe try posting it in one of
the language conferences...;)

Pat
---
 ~ DeLuxe} 1.25 #12341 ~ CLOSE COVER BEFORE STRIKING
--
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World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044