HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Re: boat drinks
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 22:40:08 GMT

In article <1252@tekcae.cax.tek.com> paulh@tekcae.cax.tek.com (Paul Hammer) writes:
>>As a passing reference, I recently saw a TV program about the Carribean where
>>grog was said to be the acronym for 'Good Rum Of Grenada'. Anybody know if
>>this is true? I.e. when did the Royal Navy start to use the term 'grog'?
>
>It's false.  Grog is named after a certain Captain Grog whom was
>the first to cut the rum ration...

Didn't Humphrey Bogart play Captain Grog in a movie about a WWII minesweeper?
Seriously, folks, grog was named for Admiral Something-or-other of the 
Royal Navy who was a bit of a party-pooper and first started watering down
the hooch. His nickname was "Old Grog" becuase of the grogram (a kind of coarse
fabric) cloak that he wore on deck. I'll look up the details in the Oxford
Companion when I get home.


Stefan




Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: swist@doodly.mcc.dec.com (Jim Swist)
Subject: Re: Request for Information:
Reply-To: swist@took.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:29:03 GMT


re: insurance and coverage for racing

I told you that most boat policies seem to be modified
auto policy.  What auto policy doesn't exclude racing?

BTW, "but it's only a sailboat" may fall on deaf ears if
any of these insurance people watched the America's Cup
coverage frequently showing boats missing each other by
what appears (particularly with telephoto lenses) to be
inches.
 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke)
Subject: Re: Question about zinc...
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:44:30 GMT

> My boat has a Westerbeke 4-107 diesel. This is connected to the seawater by
> the prop shaft, but there's a rubber doughnut between the two halves of the
> prop coupler, which effectively insulates the shaft from the engine. I put a
> zinc on the prop shaft this past year (a "doughnut zinc"---about 1"
> fore-and-aft, and about 3" OD, with a 7/8" hole in the middle for the shaft
> to pass through. The result: after 5.5 months in the water, the zinc is
> about 25% gone. Is this about normal?

Don't know on this one, went over the side on Botany Bay to check the one on
the end of the shaft and found it was GONE!!!  However, I went to look at it
again and realized that the screw holding it on was also gone and everything
was a little too clean for it to have corroded off.  I assume it came loose
and fell off.  I will use a collar type when I haul.  I am currently using a
hang over the side type to protect the prop.

> The result: usually the zinc is almost completely gone; the pencil has
> broken off somewhere in the middle, and the "stub" is lying around on the
> bottom of the exchanger, along with sundry other bits of broken zinc.

I have a perkins 4-107 which is basically the same engine.  I find that my
pencil zinc in the heat exchanger is about 80% gone at the 6 month point.  I
have taken to replacing it every six months.  I assume this is rather
normal.


David Zielke
'Botany Bay'
Cal 35 Hull 006

zielke@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil
From: ian@lassen.wpd.sgi.com (Ian Clements)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: America's cup boats and computers (1 of several)
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:56:25 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA


 Not to mention the computers used to design the boats and those
used to display the SailTrack stuff ESPN was showing.

 Computers have begun to play a very large part in AC circles.
--

--
Ian Clements, 			| 
ian@sgi.com, 415/390-3410 	| Towards the beans! Towards the beans!
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Charge!
Date: 18 Nov 1992 12:39:43 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

The continuing saga of the Honda 8HP outboard and its charging facility.
I have received many, many notes on my charging problem (output from
engine shows -0.5 volts on open circuit), but none of them seemed quite
right, although there was a lot of food for thought. Knowing Honda's 
passion for Safety First (there Legal Dept. I imagine) I decided to
connect the whole thing up to my brand new battery and see what happened.
As a precaution I removed the battery from the bowels of FELIX and got
it up in the cockpit with the Fluke attached (great voltmeter, the Model
10 -- the bottom of the line) and it registered 12.17 volts and the 
hydrometer was just in the red. So here was a new, charged battery that
had lain around charged for some time. I started the motor and plugged in
the charging lead (I had previously checked polarity by peeking inside
the motor and assuming that the fused, red insulated line was +ive.
At idle the volts "jumped" from 12.17 to about 12.21, and as I revved
the motor up a bit I could get it up to about 12.40. After about 3 mins 
the battery registered 12.24, so there has been a net influx of the good
stuff. So, it looks OK, but I was surprised that it did not jump up
to 14+ on charge. Is this just another Honda Safety First thing? Oh yes,
I took the charging plug off and on a couple of times and nothing dire
happened -- after all, it is designed to be worked by featherless bipeds
who, like myself, have zero understanding of Advanced Electronics. I
think I will order the Manual for the engine tho'.

Any comments? Oh yes, I guess I could check the hydrometer again. FELIX
does not have a Distribution Panel, and I'm thinking of getting one. I
suppose an Ammeter would make sense, too.

Francis Muir
FELIX, Freedom 21
Redwood City
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: harsant@headplant.trl.OZ.AU (Dave Harsant)
Subject: Re: Tuff Luff and other headstay foils
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne Australia
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:03:13 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.215451.3441@klaava.Helsinki.FI> tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lauri Tarkkonen) writes:
>As I said, if you compare badly executed hank sail change to a well executed
>foil change there is a real difference. Because people interested in winning
>races invest more in practice as well as equipment Mr. Scot might be under
>the false impression that there is a really big difference between the
>two procedures, when the real difference was between the crews. :-).
>Maybe I am not that stupid after all. ;-).

I don't know why you guys are still arguing over this.  A well executed
headsail change with a headfoil will always win over a hanked change
executed with the same degree of skill.  If you disagree, go reconsider.
The evidence has been presented.

As to what small boats do when racing, well, I race on a Seaway 25
(similar to J24, a little heavier and slower), and we have a twin track
foil.  Most of our racing is in the 2-5 hour range.  We hardly ever
change sail on a beat, because we can carry our number 1 up to about 20
kn. Over 20kn, we use a number 3.  On rare occasions, the wind is
varying around the 18-22 kn range, and we could do with a number 2, but
we don't have one.  In these conditions we make a judgement on what the
wind will do, and choose the 1 or 3.  If we have the 1 up, and the wind
gets too strong, we can normally depower enough to save changing sail
till the downwind leg.  However, if the wind drops to under 18 with the
number 3 up, we usualy must change immediately, unless very close to
the buoy, because we become very under powered, and drop out the back
door.  This is where we need the foil.  Nearly all the boats in our
Club fleet (ranging from 22ft to 60ft)  use foils.  All the serious
Seaway racers use foils. The J24s (there are about 20 of them at Royal
Brighton) do not seem to.  Prevailing local conditions on Port Phillip
bay are usually such that a SW sea breeze will come in for the Saturday
afternoon races, so the wind will usually be strengthening after 3pm in
summer, from 10-15 building to 20kn.  We didn't make an upwind change
at all last season, but made a couple on shy reaches without the
spinnaker up, where we wanted the extra power, and some when the kite
was up.  Actually, the one occasion where we would have changed down to
the No. 3 was when we misjudged the wind strength on the run, and found
it was about 20-25 on rounding the mark.  We were coming second, and
would have lost ground if we had stayed with the No 1  the whole leg,
but the mast broke before we could do anything.  Turned out one of the
spreaders had fatigued in the socket where it attaches to the mast.

So most of the time we don't need the foil, but on those occasions when
we do, it saves us significant time.  Seconds translate into boatlengths.
We have never had a problem with the foil in 7 years.

--
Dave Harsant,
Telecom Australia Research Laboratories  |  d.harsant@trl.oz.au
From: tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lauri Tarkkonen)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Coyote spotted, no sign of Mike Plant
Date: 23 Nov 92 10:07:37 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In <lgvg1kINNhgo@cronkite> billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Courington) writes:

>A couple of additional notes.  It seems that the bulb 
>is missing from the keel fin. Observers said they could 
>see sails as the upside down hull heaved in 8 foot waves; 
>meaning perhaps that the rig is intact.   

>Hoping that Plant is alive inside,

>BILL COURINGTON

If it is true that the bulb has fallen of, this is again a proof
of stupid and unseamanlike design and engineering. In the last
Whitbread rave the Finnish yacht Martela lost its keel, it has 
actually repaired already once, but then they did not drop it
kompletely. In the Martela case nobody got hurt but....

Before the actual round the world race Drum, a boat owned by
a British pop star Simon Le Bon, dropped its keel, the weldings
of a fancy system broke of.

There are already more than a handfull of incidences where the
keel bolts or some fancy welding or a bulb hanged on some struts
or something has failed. This all is done for some few percentage
of extra speed. If you want speed get a bigger boat. If we have 
racing rules and measurement rules, then why cant they have scantlings
that demand integrity of parts like keels. When the keels were solid
it was actually the only place in the boat that was practically 
foolproof. You needed 10 kilogrrams of dynamite to break it.
Now we have development and you can break eaven your keel.
If we speak about offshore boats, they should last the whole
trip. They should be able to take whatever is given, but they
are fragile eggshells that must be caressed through the waves.
I do not regvard designs of this kind seamanlike.

- Lauri Tarkkonen
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Subject: Re: Question about zinc...
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:54:34 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.172432.12284@mprgate.mpr.ca> kell@mprgate.mpr.ca (Dave Kell) writes:
>
>Q:  Can you have TOO MUCH zinc on your boat?  I can't see how it could be a 
>problem, but I seem to be the only one around who puts three on his shaft.

You can (according to Dave Gerr, in "The Nature of Boats" have too much
protection, as I recall. I'll check it tonight, if I remember, and 
explain how tomorrow.

-John
From: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: A social problem
Date: 20 Nov 92 11:59:33 GMT
Reply-To: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Annapolis, MD

In rec.boats, jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM (Jeff Huntington) writes:

>So, let's try to understand and celebrate the differences between the sexes
>instead of
>trying to deny they exist.  A woman or man should be able to do (or attempt)
>what ever they want without feeling either that they can't do somehting, or
>must
>do something because of their sex.

Gosh, Jeff, you seem to find this topic as confusing as me!

-- Bob  :-)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J. Hanners         "My comments; only mine."          *DIASTOLE* 676673
CD, NSWC, Annapolis, MD                              hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil
From: davea@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Dave Angelini)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:44:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Tuff Luff and other headstay foils
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA
Newsgroups: rec.boats

  With all this discussion on the headstay I wandered over to the next
dock where a SC-70 lives when she is not between SF and Hawaii. The owner
said they have used the Harken, Pro Furl, and Hanks. They are faster with
dual foils than hanks he said. The boat is often double handed to Hawaii
and so they will use roller furling. For shorter races they take the Harken
furling drums off and use the dual foil stay. He said that he would give
the edge to the Pro furl only because the manual said you can winch the
furling line. At night that might make the difference, shorthanded and in
need of shorter headsail. He said that he has winched the harken with no
ill effects. 

 The guy also mentioned that the boat wins races with a full crew or short.
He gave me some good ideas on using the Harken before and after a spinakker
"launch". Not a boat for aesthetics but what a ride!

From: bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:57:26 GMT
Subject: Re: A Charging Question
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.boats

In rec.boats, francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:

    I have just gotten around to do something about the electrics on
    FELIX, my Freedom 21, and the first thing I have done was to make
    a lead from the Honda 8HP reghulated output to the batteries. Ever
    the cautious one, I checked out the Honda's voltagwe output with
    my brand new Fluke digital meter (great device. the Model 10.)
    and was surprised to see it register anywhere from -0.2 to -0.5 volts.
    My first cry was one of anguish, but it occurs to me that a regulated
    charger output might show very anomalous readings on essentially
    open circuit. Any ideas?

Sounds like something is wrong either with your Model 10 or the power
output.  If you measure the output voltage with no load (i.e., open
circuit) you should get anything up to +14 or +15 volts, depending on
the RPMs at the time you make the measurement.  Check the fuse, which
is just behind the output plug.  It's a 5 amp fuse since your engine
puts out 60 watts (12 volts, 5 amps).  If the fuse is OK, talk to
someone from your EE department, assuming it's not infra dig to do
so:_)
 
How do I know so much about your engine?  Well I bought one just after
you did--as a matter of fact, your posting on the subject had some
influence on my decision to buy it.  How were you able to determine
which lead was which in the output plug?  They are not marked on the
plug, and the manual does not show it either.  Unfortunately, since we
do not have enough water, I will have to wait until the Spring runoff
to try out my engine for the first time.

Have fun.
B.S! 
From: Dan.Hannah@f764.n153.z1.ship.wimsey.bc.ca (Dan Hannah)
Sender: UUCP@ship.wimsey.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Mounting transducers with
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 09:10:00 -0800

 On 11-10-92 MICHAEL A. FALLAVOLLITA wrote to ALL...
 MA> Now that I think I've determined that my transducer is bad, I have to
 MA> find some way to go about mounting a new one.  The best solution would
 MA> be to pull the boat out (AGAIN) and replace the old transducer which

Five years ago I mounted a transducer as follows.  It is still solid,
reliable, and accurate.

1.      Get a big tube of clear silicone seal -- the size that fits in a
carpenters caulking gun.
2.      Locate (in the bilge) an unobstructed, out of the way area to
mount the transducer.  The idea is that the transducer can look through
fiberglass and silicone well, but not through core material, metal, etc.
Clean
area with alcohol or solvent.  Watch fumes and flammability!
3.      Cut the end off the silicone tube -- don't just snip the nozzle
back, actually cut the whole end off, so that the opening you've made is the
sa
size as the tube. The idea is that you want to expell the entire
contents as a big glob.  Air bubbles in the silicone will not make you a
happy sailor, because they affect the range and accuracy of the sounder.
4.      Seat the transducer in the big glob of silicone, and give
several days to cure through and through.

You can aim the transducer <slightly> forward or aft if you wish.  This
method was easy and foolproof for me, and worked for a transducer that
was SUPPOSED to be in the water.  In worst case scenario, I figured if
the method didn't work for me, I could just wait until the silicone
cured, then rip it all out and clean it up and start over.

But as it happened, I think I'll mount any future gear this way.
Hope this helps.

Dan Hannah


... OFFLINE 1.41 * A waist is a terrible thing to mind.
...............................


Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: legacy@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (wayne.m.simpson)
Subject: Re: Solar Still
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:38:25 GMT
Summary: WHy not a better device?

In article <1er8tuINNmdm@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> mpeter@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU writes:
>Wanted: Solar still or information on where we can get one. It's the watermaker
>used by Steven Callahan in the book "Adrift" I believe it's made in the UK.
>Distributor in the US was Halcyon, Inc. in Annapolis, but they no longer seem
>to exist. West Marine doesn't have them, even though it's listed in the
>catalogue. Any ideas?

   Perhaps they no longer exist because Callahan had so much trouble with
his, and better alternatives exist now. Callahan's stills required almost
constant attention to provide the barest trickle of water for him to drink.
   There is another type of solar still that depends on a Gore-Tex membrane
to separate the salt from the water. This unit is flat and floats much more
stably in a rolling sea. It produces a lot more water and does so with less
fuss. Where is it available? What is it called? Sorry, I don't remember,
but the Pardey's reviewed it as part of a safety equipment article in 
Sail magazine a few years ago.
   The other alernative is either of the reverse osmosis watermakers made
by PUR. the small Survivor 6 makes 2 pints of water per hour of pumping.
It costs about $500.00, or a little more than three of the stills you're
looking for. But, in an hour and a half of pumping, it will make as much
water as those three stills can in an entire day.
   If you really want to be safe, get the Survivor 35. It makes 1.4 gallons
an hour, or as much as 12 Airborn solar stills can in an entire day. Price?
$1300.00, considerably less than the 12 solar stills would cost. William
and Simone Butler, who spent almost as much time in their raft as Callahan,
were in much better shape than he was when they were picked up, mostly
because they had plenty of fresh drinking water provided by their Survivor
35.

   The point I'm trying to make is that these little solar stills are a 
tragic joke. You need a lot more water than they can provide under the
best of circumstances in order to stay healthy while awaiting rescue. If
you're going to spend money on safety equipment, spend it on equipment
that can actually keep you alive. Otherwise, save your money and invest
in cyanide pills. At least you can die without all the fuss...

Wayne Simpson (no fancy .sig this time)
From: halw@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Hal Watts)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:01:17 GMT
Subject: Pearson 10 M, Partnership
Organization: HP Signal Analysis Division - Rohnert Park, CA
Newsgroups: rec.boats

FOR SALE

50% Partnership in:

   1976 Pearson 10 M (33 ft) Sailboat 

   Richmond Marina, San Francisco Bay

   Very good partner relationship for many years, moving out of state
   forces sale.

   Boat very well maintained
   New Epoxy Bottom Paint

   Mainsail, Jib and Spinnaker are 2 years new with light use.

   1/2 equity for sale $5900

   1/2 of mortgage, slip rental, insurance, routine mainenance is $295/month



For more information call Len,	(707) 794-2179

-----

Posted for a friend, please do not respond to this account.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Subject: Re: Zincs on boats
Keywords: corrosion
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 12:24:52 GMT

In article <7599@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> alany@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Alan Yelvington) writes:
>The zincs on your boats are "sacrificial" electrodes
>to protect the rest of the metal on/in your boat.
>
>Something to think about: a zinc can only protect parts         
>are electrically bonded to it.  This is one reason why
>bonding is so important on boats.  If something is isolated
>from the zinc, then it will corrode  on its own.

If my reading of the literature (and my chemistry books) is right, then
this statement is only half true, and deserves comment. If you hang a hunk of
bronze in the water on the end of a piece of string, it'll come up fine. Even
if it hangs there for a year, it will not corrode substantially. 

If, on the other hand, you hang it there, electrically attached to a
dissimilar and more-noble metal, e.g., stainless steel, it *will* corrode away,
and quite rapidly. To get substantial electrolytic corrosion requires
dissimilar metals in electrical contact in a electrolyte. 

This means that if the various metal things that you have in the water are not
electrically connected, they are "safe," to some degree. Note that things like
brass are not safe at all---the way that brass is made is by mixing a bunch of
metals, including, I think, zinc, together; these metals immediately begin to
corrode when they hit salt water, and the zinc in the mix disappears, making
the brass into a very "spongy" sort of stuff. So I should have said "if the
various metal things you have in the water are not electrically connected, and
if they are also `pure' metals, then they are probably safe. 

By the way, this also means that a zinc on your boat that's not connected ot
the rest of the metals is *not* protecting them. The hang-over-the-side zincs
should he hung by a wire that connects to the grounding strap of your
electrical system, which should in turn connect to every piece of metal that
goes through the hull and that you want to protect (e.g., seacocks, prop 
shaft, keelbolts (?), etc.) Note that connecting the strap to the engine is not
enough---you need something touching the prop shaft as well. Why? Because the
prop shaft and then engine are often not in real electrical contact--they're
isoltated from one another by a thin layer of a great dielectric, namely engine
oil. 

-John