HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: keleher@cs.tulane.edu (William Keleher (504)523-6119)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Common Opponents, Transitivity, and Stupidity
Keywords: SEC
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:05:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Tulane Univ., New Orleans, LA
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-17606]: saturn


> apalon@stein.u.washington.edu (Andrew Alleman) writes:
> >To try to get out of this with some scrap of dignity, I'll just say that
> >the less stretched the transitivity (ie., fewer teams involved - like 3),
> >the more valid the data.  Maybe?

     Maybe not.  If anyone _still_ needs convincing of the fallacy
  of football transivity, they should take a look at the results of the
  Miss-Auburn, Vandy-Miss, and Auburn-Vandy games, all of which
  ocurred in a relatively short space of time (four weeks?), and
  all of which were pretty much blowouts.

--
   =====================================================================
======= William Keleher       "...but if one of my children was a    ======
======= Tulane University      bank robber, I'd stand by them, too.  ======
======= <std disclaimer>       Neil, for example..."                 ======
   ======================================================================
From: dpassage@soda.berkeley.edu (David G. Paschich)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Marsee Computer Rankings and Predictions for 10/10/92
Date: 8 Oct 92 11:53:22
Organization: Organization?  Who cares?  You just gotta say "Go Bears!"
Distribution: na
	<DPASSAGE.92Oct7165308@soda.berkeley.edu>
	<1992Oct8.173427.17851@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: kbowers@esrc1.uucp's message of Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:34:27 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.173427.17851@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> kbowers@esrc1.uucp (Ken Bowers) writes:
   In article <DPASSAGE.92Oct7165308@soda.berkeley.edu> dpassage@soda.berkeley.edu (David G. Paschich) writes:
   >In article <1992Oct7.071957.15189@newstand.syr.edu> demarsee@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Darryl E. Marsee) writes:
   >
   >     1. MICHIGAN       (937)
   >     2. KANSAS         (899)
   >     3. WASHINGTON     (896)
   >     4. CALIFORNIA     (885)
   >     5. NEBRASKA       (859)
   >
   >Two questions, Darryl:
   >
   >1) What drugs are you on?
   >
   >2) Where can I get some?
   >
   >David Paschich


   What is it with the need to flame the guys who run these computer 
   ratings?  First of all, a lot of work goes into these things; second,
   why attack them personally when they're telling you what the program
   spit out? 
[further flame deleted]

Next time I'll remember to include a couple dozen smilies for people
like you who have no sense of humor.

David Paschich
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: jmd@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (joseph.m.dakes)
Subject: Re: PSU is Overrated!!!!!!
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:13:22 GMT

In article <92287.074450KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>, KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
> 
>   Penn State is one of the top programs in the country who consistently win
> over top 10 teams, right!!!!  WRONG!!!  A.P. reports that in the "Joe Paterno
> Era", PSU is 10-41 against teams that ended the season in the Top 10.  Now
> this may be misleading because a team may be #9, loses to PSU in a bowl game
> and drops out of the top 10.  But look at that record!  That is a .244 winning
> percentage.  It goes to show that the Lions have built up their record on the
> Eastern Michigans, Marylands and Bowling Greens of the world (I am a Maryland
> fan, but facts are facts, PSU owns us, 32-1-1).  The Penn State program is
> over rated and people should realize that.  After all, they have played one
> ranked team all season, at home, in front of 96,000 of their own fans, and
> they lost.

Give us a break.  Penn State has won two national championships during the
80's including a victory over, what was considered one of the the best
college football teams of all time, the '86 Miami Hurricanes.

I have no idea what the Lions record is against top-10 teams.  But losing
by a slim margin to the best team in the country is not the sign of a poor
football team.  Penn State is not as good as Miami, but they are definitely
a top-10 team this season.  And they have been a good team consistently
over the years.  If that isn't a top-notch program then what is?


Joe Dakes
AT&T Microelectronics
555 Union Boulevard
Allentown, PA  18103
alux2!jmd

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: m1d4783@tamsun.tamu.edu (michael denison)
Subject: Re: rule changes?? fumbles and kickoffs
Keywords: fumblerooskie,ground,wimp
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 06:17:53 GMT

 joconnor@evax10.eng.fsu.edu writes:
>Some rules I like to see changed are:

>-ground cannot cause a fumble. 
>    I say if ya can't hang on to the ball as ye're punished to the 
>ground, TUFF NOOGIES, HOLD ON TIGHTER! plus it would end speculation 
>on whether a fumble occur before or after he hit the ground, which is 
>seen often.

Obviously, you're talking about professional football since there is
no such rule in college football. Luckily, however, when the player
in possession touches the ground the play is dead. This rule does
prevent the ground from causing a fumble.

>-Kickoffs
>    If the Kicker can kick the ball thru the uprights of the recieving 
>team, the kicking team shall be awarded two points. The ball will be 

To quote my own mother, "Duh."
-- 
 "You know what they say about men with *large* vocabularies...."
michael d. denison                          m1d4783@tamsun.tamu.edu
From: jli@bingham.utah.edu (Jianliang Li)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: PSU @ BYU POSSIBLE SCHEDULE CHANGE
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:03:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: fcom.1992Oct8.230321.4841
Organization: University of Utah


	There are three possibilities:

			12:00 noon
			 1:00 pm
			 5:30 pm

	The kick-off time wil depend on whether the game will be televised
nationally or not.  The schedule will not be known until 10/19.  Tickets
will be mailed around 10/19.


	********************
	JLI   PENN STATE '90
	********************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: jjn@cbjjn.cb.att.com (Jeff Nappi)
Subject:  Rose Bowl..National Champiom??
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:02:20 GMT

I know its still early but it looks more and more like we might have
a National Champion matchup in the Rose Bowl. Washington and Michigan
are ranked #1 and #3 respectively in the polls and I really don't see
anyone knocking these guys off. Miami certainly deserves a shot but
the above matchup could well be the best of all the Bowl games.


BTW: I keep hearing Ohio State fans using the excuse about parity in
the Big Ten on why Ohio State loses. Would someone please tell Michigan 
that there is parity in the Big Ten so they will start losing and while 
your at it be sure to tell Penn State when they join the league next year.

Yes, I am a disgusted Buckeye fan.

-- 
Jeff Nappi
Columbus Bell Labs
jjn@cbjjn.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: kevin@traffic.den.mmc.com (Kevin Rodgers)
Subject: Re: Penn State Wooferama (NOT)
Organization: Buffalo Stampede
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:17:06 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.140008.10316@makesys.com> john@makesys.com (John Turman) writes:
>I watched a game there George, the Miami/Penn State game and guess what? PSU
>didn't win, Miami did, surprise surprise. Oh well maybe next year....then again
>maybe not.

Given that:

(1) the inexperienced Sacca outplayed the highly regarded (by some :-)
    Torretta;

(2) the Lions had worse field position throughout the game, yet
    outscored the Hurricane offense 2 TDs to 1 and finished with a
    significant advantage in time of possession (33:15 to 26:45); and

(3) Penn State outgained UM-Coral Gables 370-218;

Yes, I was surprised that the Canes managed to win.

Last year after UM-CG played well to beat PSU by 6 in the Orange Bowl, I
was indeed chanting "next year, at Beaver Stadium" to myself.  But next
year they go their separate ways, to tussel against Syracuse, BC, WVU,
and Pitt (on one hand) and Michigan, Iowa, Ohio State, and Illinois (on
the other :-).

>All I've got to say is that the Miami Hurricanes proved to the entire USA and
>the football world that they are the premier program in college football today.

Miami is indeed one of the very best programs in the country, but
Saturday's game did little to "prove" that they are _the_ premier
program.

But for the first time since he ran out on Wyoming and Washington State,
I can give coach Erickson an inkling of respect.  After the game, he
didn't obsessively dwell on how the Canes overcame adversity, penalties,
or the low esteem in which the "entire USA and the football world" hold
them, but said that beating Joe Paterno in State College was a great
thrill, and complimented Penn State as a class program.  Perhaps UM-CG
is no longer afraid of being compared to other schools on the basis of
_how_ they run their program.  Will all their fans now turn in their
Canes paraphernalia for Raider insignia?

>Washington has a good football team but I don't see them playing top ranked
>caliber teams on the road, or back to back the way Miami does. There is no 
>better team in college football. That's all there is to it. Woof Woof.

Miami _will_ lose.  That's all there is to it.

>P.S. I guess my prediction of 62-0 and then the ammendment of 42-14 didn't
>quite come true. But a win is a win, and I'll take it.

In fact, the predictions of a Nittany Lion win during the Penn State
Wooferama (tm) were a hell of a lot closer to the outcome than your
outrageous predictions.

>If you take yourself too seriously, you'll be the only one who does.

I can definitely confirm that the consequent holds.

>..John "Dolphinatic" Turman...
         ^^^^^^^ <- Gotta love Dan the Man! (way better than Kelly,
                                             Kosar, Testaverde, etc.)
-- 
Kevin Rodgers				kevin@traffic.den.mmc.com
Martin Marietta MS A16401		(303) 790-3971
116 Inverness Dr. East
Englewood CO 80112 USA			GO BUFFS!
From: salil@igor.tamri.com (Salil Saxena)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Miami vs Penn State..when??
Date: 9 Oct 92 22:16:41 GMT
Organization: Toshiba America MRI Inc, S. San Francisco, CA.

In article <1992Oct9.132009.1@evax3.eng.fsu.edu> trinidad@evax3.eng.fsu.edu writes:
>I hear that Miami will be playing Penn State this saturday.  can somebody tell
>me what time and what channel. We dont hear Miami things here in
>Tallahassee,,,,I wonder why??  hee hee

The Miami @ Penn State game is televised by ABC nationally at noon ET, 9:00am PT

>I'd love to see the infamous #1 Miami take a nose dive before I graduate from
>FSU this december. They seem to have the "luckiest" edge during games.  But I
>believe they're beatable this season......but by who? (that's the question.)
>
>thanks
>
>Georgina
>trinidad@evax.eng.fsu.edu


-- 
Salil Saxena		Gotta love those British Roadsters - '91 Lotus Elan SE
Toshiba America MRI, Inc.		Internet: salil@igor.tamri.com	
South San Francisco, CA  94080		Phone: (415) 872-2722 x2283
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Opionions expressed are mine and only mine <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
From: fierro@uts.amdahl.com (Doug Fierro)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: AP Top 25 (Was Re: Miami Can Not Be Denied!!!)
Date: 13 Oct 92 20:44:50 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <yvonne.718933201@well.sf.ca.us> yvonne@well.sf.ca.us (Yvonne Lee) writes:
>Foul. 15 yards, illegal use of the woof. 
>
>It is not possible to woof one's nemesis into losing an upcoming game.  
>Woofing/anti-woofing theorem applies only to the team, its band,
>coaches, cheerleaders, and fans.  The anti-woofing penalty cannot be
>assessed by the actions of their rivals.
>
>You can't penalize the opposing fans.

  Well, I have disproven the anti-woofing theorem myself; before I went
to Seattle I said Washington was going to beat Cal in several previous
posts; look what happened- Washington still won :-(

  Maybe there is a corollary I'm not aware of :-)

  Doug
-- 
                                                     Doug Fierro
                                      |\             UTS System Software
  O                         __________|_\______      CASE tools development
  \_.______________________| * * * * * * * * */      fierro@uts.amdahl.com
 __\____                   |=================/       (408)746-7102
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: ellingrw@infonode.ingr.com (Bob Ellington)
Subject: Re: Scores
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 04:13:04 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.211115.6662@athena.cs.uga.edu> milleman@athena.cs.uga.edu (Richard Milleman) writes:
>Can someone start posting scores. I'm stuck at work and can't get the scores    from today's games. I know the important scores (or at least as far as the Dawgsare concerned): UGA won, Tennessee lost!!
>Thanks in advance.
>
>-- 
>                                                The Rickster
>                                                milleman@athena.cs.uga.edu
>The only thing in life that you get
>for free is your feelings hurt.

Miss St 14, Auburn 7
Florida 28, LSU 21
Georgia 34, Ga. Southern 7
Arkansas 25, Tenn 24
Wake Forest 40, Vandy 6
Clemson 29, Virginia 28
FSU 36, N. Carolina 13
Ga. Tech 28, Maryland 26
Texas 34, Oklahoma 24
Illinois 18, Ohio St. 16
Miami 17, Penn St 14

I'm sure you will get more

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: jeff@jlk.b11.ingr.com (Jeff Kilpatrick)
Subject: Re: Biggest Rivalry in the Country?
Reply-To: jeff@jlk.b11.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 15:26:37 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.183013.5733@news2.cis.umn.edu>, milius@proton.med.umn.edu (Bob Milius (BMEC)) writes:
|> I was discussing the SEC championship scenario with a friend of mine who is
|> an avid Tennesee fan. He claims that the UT/BAMA game ('the third Saturday
|> in October') is the biggest rivalry in the country, and if
|> Tennesee manages to beat Bama the first time around and both teams play in
|> the championship, it will be the 'biggest event in the south since the
|> burning of Atlanta'. Do 'Bama fans view the rivalry in the same way? Is
|> the 'third Saturday in October' always the most important game of the year 
|> for you? As a Michigan fan and alum, I 'grew up' believing that no rivalry


  As a 'Bama fan, the Auburn game is certainly the biggest of the year.  This
game divides more families since the War Between the States.  The UT game ranks
2nd; it is a big game and at one time, it was probably bigger than Auburn.  The
big thing about UA/AU is it is not a one day game, it lasts all year; we all
*have* to live together.  
  No doubt a UT/UA rematch on Dec 5 will be BIG... UT shouldn't have a problem
making it there, Bama still has some tough games to go.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: jcopelan@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (The One and Only)
Subject: Re: John.Cooper.must.die.die.die
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 19:23:59 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.190533.24414@cis.ohio-state.edu> atchison@harp.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mark Atchison) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct12.174930.9839@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jcopelan@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (The One and Only) writes:
>>>In article <1bc98eINN3b3@agate.berkeley.edu> cubbie@garnet.berkeley.edu (                               ) writes:
>>>>>> Anyway, back to my Cooper rant.  People hated Bruce because he took
>>>12-0 teams and went 9-3.  We now have Cooper taking 10-2 teams and going 7-4.
>>>Ah, well.  Who's available to coach
>>>I recall most OSU fans said Bruce was a poor recruiter and the team would be
>>>much better when Cooper has all of his recruits on the team.
>
>>That is why I waited until this loss to Illinois to call for his head. I don't
>>think there is much doubt that OSU recruiting has improved since Cooper became
>>head coach.  This is his fifth year (right?), so this team should  be all his.
>>I think the quality is there, but Cooper hasn't been able to put ita all 
>>together, except for the Syracuse game.  Until this last loss I supported
>>him, saying just wait a while for him to get it together.  But now, I fear
>>that the people calling for his head over the past few years may have been
>>right.  
>
>The Illinois game, swung on some *major* turnovers, seems to me to be a strange
>candidate for the straw that broke the Buckeye fan's back on Cooper.  Now the 
>Wisconsin game was another story...

Well, it was the combined back to back losses that flipped my lid.  After
WisconSIN (their slogan is: come smell our dairy air!) I thought we could
still win the rest going into the Mich. game and have a chance for the Roses.
My particular gripe with the Ill. game is why did Cooper settle for a 45 yard
field goal attempt (note the up the middle running to set this up, instead of
passing for a first down)  after Williams (the kicker) had already missed one
earlier.  I only saw the fouth quarter, but the defense should have stopped
them after that second fumble on the goal line.  Instead, the Illini march 
down the field to kick the winning field goal.  Sad indeed.

> Mark Atchison, a.k.a. <atchison@cis.ohio-state.edu>; Graduate Student in the

jc



-- 
Wise man: "Don't think too much."
Seeker: Hmm... Wonder what he's _really_ trying to say...
============================================================

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: manu@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (K. S. Manu)
Subject: Re: AP Top 25 (Was Re: Miami Can Not Be Denied!!!)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 10:07:17 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.074426.7909@leland.Stanford.EDU> gsroka@leland.Stanford.EDU (Gregory Sroka) writes:
>
>For all those who seem to think Miami blew out Nebraska in the Orange Bowl
>last year: I distinctly remember the score being 15-7 with under 3 min. to
>go in the fourth. Miami scored a late td to put the game away 22-7.

Another PAC-10 weenie strikes!!!

Last year in OB, Miami thrashed Nebraska 22-0. I don't think Nebraska was EVER
in a position to score ANY point in that game. It was definitely the most
one-sided bowl game last year...

If I remember correctly, Nebraska couldn't get to the Miami side in the
first half, let alone score! ( They had 1 first down or something in
the whole first half! )

Remember, the same Nebraska team scored 21 points against the mighty huskies
when they played earlier in the season... Nebraska was leading till sometime
in 4th quarter when U-dub pulled away.

That game wasn't a blowout for sure...

>Hardly a blow out. Nebraska was within one td plus 2 pt. conv. until the last
>two minutes! It sure seems like the Canes "struggled against Nebraska before
>pulling out" a 15 pt. victory. The same margin as Washington ...
>The Rose Bowl wasn't nearly as close, and Michigan was ranked higher 

Closer than OB...

>than Nebraska. So please explain: how do you justify a shared #1?
>Seemed like a no-brainer to have put Miami #2. Those crazy writers...

About the mighty Michigan, don't forget that FSU beat them by something
like 51-24, a true blowout. So Michian wasn't too hot, either.

There was some talk about a weenie pac10 coach voting Miami #3 behind 2
pac 10 teams last year which cost Miami a consensus MNC!!!

So much for U-dub & pac10 greatness!

>Anyone who still has a hardcopy of the score and/or game summary, please
>confirm or correct my memory. 
>
>- gsroka@leland.Stanford.EDU 

Njan
From: scott@mccall.com (Scott D. Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Colorado pounds Mizzou 6-0
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:34:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: mccall.1992Oct9.113408
Reply-To: scott@mccall.com (Scott D. Davis)
Organization: The McCall Pattern Co., Manhattan, KS, USA
Nntp-Posting-User: scott


In article <RHOUSTON.92Oct9090501@peoa.glacier.sim.es.com>, rhouston@glacier.sim.es.com (Richard Houstan) writes:
>In article <1992Oct9.135410.10146@spdc.ti.com> dostalik@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Bill Dostalik) writes:
>
>   Buffaloes, ease up!  You didn't *have* to run it up on Mizzou like that
>   did you?  I mean, like, did you really need to kick that second field 
>   goal?  6-zip is a bit much isn't it?  BTW - how can you get so many
>   yards and not get a TD?  I watched the whole game and can't figure it
>   out.  Pretty tough D, though.
>
>
>Did Detmer Play?
>
No.  And I don't understand it.  Detmer has led the Buffs to several
TDs in the past games.  CU wasn't punching it in.  

What I didn't get from this game is whether CU isn't that good or
if Mizzou has improved.   

Beauttioux(sp), CU's kicker, went 2-4 FGs last night.  One hit the
upright and the other sailed right.
--
Scott D. Davis <scott@mccall.com>       The McCall Pattern Company
(uucp: ...!widener!depot!mccall!scott)	615 McCall Road
(800)255-2762, in Kansas (913)776-4041  Manhattan, KS 66502, USA
From: saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu (Brian E. Saunders)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Threads That Are Never Resolved
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:22:55 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Madison

Threads that never get resolved on the net, but show up at least once a
year:

My school's marching band is the best / better than....

What is the biggest rivalry in college football?

Who deserved the national championship?
-- 

Brian E. Saunders			saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu
From: johndoe@squid.inmet (johndoe)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: CU - MU game
Date: 9 Oct 92 19:26:00 GMT
	<Bvv3J1.nE@solbourne.com>
Organization: Intermetrics, Inc.

In article <Bvv3J1.nE@solbourne.com> tomd@solbourne.com (Tom Diessner) writes:
>In article <1992Oct9.134546.18860@news.nd.edu> ejohnson@turing.cse.nd.edu (eric johnson) writes:
>>What was the score to the Colorado/Missouri game last night??? Any analysis on how
>>the Buffs looked???
>
>The final Score: CU 6 MU 0.
>This could go down as the most boring game of the year. 

i actually thought the game was very entertaining, with quite a bit of
suspense.  especially considering colorado's penchant for giving up the big
plays late in the game.  one big play, one game-breaker, and missouri would
have had the lead at any point in the game.  a speedy cornerback instead of
a burly linebacker picks off the ball with 4:30 to go and he might run it
all the way back for the lead.

>CU's offense racked up
>460 yards of total offense, but mistakes, the weather, and Mizzou's D 
>hindered them from scoring. CU's D was very tough, holding MU to 187 yards of
>total offense( 60 yards rushing and 127 passing ). 

the defense looked pretty good, but this was missouri after all.  the
rushing d looked great, and figures shined as usual (2 ints), but the front
line didn't put on as much pass pressure as might be desired.

>Kordell Stewart looked good
>at times, and totaly inaffective at other times, but one has to wonder how long
>it will be before Koy Detmer gets more playing time. 
>

i thought stewart played a very good game.  the wind played havoc with some
of his passes, including the one long distance int into the end zone, but
for the most part he looked fairly sharp.  300 yards in tose conditions is
nothing to sneeze at.  i think stewart needs to play these games; he will
need to be ready for the better, faster nu, ou, and bowl-opponent defenses
he will face.  he won't be able to lob passes to receivers nearly as much.
i haven't seen detmer, but i understand he is even smaller than his older
brother.  and stewart does add a running/scrambling dimension, if necessary.

>-- 
>
>Thomas Diessner | tomd@solbourne.COM | Solbourne Computer Inc. | Longmont, CO
				   "GO BUFFS"

johndoe