HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: julie@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Consent and Orgies
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:20:58 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

> Orgies make good fantasies, but I'm not sure how I would feel about the
> reality of it, having to negotiate issues of consent with lots of people, and
> feeling nasty about saying "no" because somebody is just not attractive to
> me in that way.
> 
> -Heather
> I'll take hugs, but save the kisses for somebody else ...


Heather's point is very well taken.  I've personally avoided group sex
completely because I felt very wary about consent in general in such
circumstances.  Personally, consent is tricky enough with just one
person, let alone half a dozen.  It even bothers me to hear people
talking about orgies as if everyone assuredly enjoyed themselves
because most often there is _someone_ there who may have in one way or
another been abused/invaded or felt threatened by the circumstances. 
Unfortunately, they often just get "lost in the shuffle" because
everyone else is so busy getting it off that they will forget
completely that these people have individual identities.  The "does it
matter" comment about whose legs were popping out of a pile of people
is a good example of this.  I don't mean to bring that up to attack
the person who made the comment, because that is not my goal.  I know
little to nothing of that specific party, but the comment bothered me
and I wanted to bring it up as an example of my point.

--Julie
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: orc@vpnet.chi.il.us (david parsons)
Subject: Re: Look who's back - (was Re: Coming Out)
Organization: Department of Atomic Text Units
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 01:16:37 GMT

In article <Bs3pGs.ELC@newcastle.ac.uk> J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley) writes:
|pclary@radish.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary) writes:
|>J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley) wrote...
|>>/jon (the other one who likes bbq-ripple)
|>No, Sara banned it.  (And I certainly didn't object.)
|>I think she threatened to use her clippers on anyone who brought it.
|It would have been worth it. Wonder what I would look like with short hair?

   I *want* to be present when that happens...

                 __
   david parsons \/ "I'll need to borrow a camera, though..."
From: 71460.1571@CompuServe.COM (Brian S McConnell)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Important Announcement 4 GLB Stud, Fac, & Alumni Groups
Date: 30 Jul 92 07:31:03 GMT

AN IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR EVERY GLB STUDENT, FACULTY AND ALUMNI
ORGANIZATION IN THE UNITED STATES

You are entitled to a free database listing, and unlimited access
to two interactive voice mailboxes on the BarPhone system to
describe your organization, give contact information, and
promote upcoming events. This service will allow any caller
with a TouchTone phone to locate GLB friendly businesses and
organizations by city, by state, by category or by university
name. This service is automated, tightly interactive and very
easy to use. It will be promoted nationally in gay/lesbian
publications, and will provide every gay or lesbian person in
the country with easier access to community resources than ever
before.

What's more, the information that we gather will be ported into
many media, and will be made widely available without many
restrictions. For example, the information will be accessible
(by early 1993) in voice, fax and videotex [possibly via the
Internet] formats. And, since the information gathering aspect of
the service is almost 100% automated, updates are processed
immediately without operator error, are immediately carried
through to the other media outlets, and allow us to provide the
service at a very reasonable cost to the general public conducting
searches.

We currently know of approximately 450 glb student organizations
in the US, and will be sending pre-registered mailboxes and access
codes to them. However, we do not know of so many faculty organizations.
We are in contact with NetGALA about alumni organizations, but any
help is appreciated. 

To get your organization online, this is all you have to do. Send
us a self-addressed, stamped envelope, and we will deliver your
account information and instructions as soon as possible. When you
get your packet in the mail, you'll be able to get started right
away. In the meantime, if you would like to get an idea of how
BarPhone works, just call (703)951-GIDE   951-4433, and feel free
to roam around. You won't be able to login, but you will be able
to get an idea of how the system works. In a few days, you'll be
able to conduct sample searches of our database.

Send SASE to Commonwealth Multimedia, attn: University Guide,
PO Box 365, Blacksburg, VA 24063-0365. Remember our information
providers hotline is (703)951-GIDE [look for an 800 access number
in Sept. 1992 when our public 900 service goes online]

Please send us an feedback, suggestions or comments you might have
to 71460.1571@compuserve.com attn: Brian S McConnell.

Enjoy!

Brian McConnell, Director
Commonwealth Multimedia, Inc. - A Gay Owned, Gay Operated 
				Communications Technology Firm
				In Virginia.

5% of profits go to GLB charities
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Life does funny things sometimesbottom
From: dsolis@koko.csustan.edu (Djelrik Solis)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 22:34:48 GMT
Organization: CSU Stanislaus

In article <92202.185152IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>
>finding out that i might have to call myself bi means i am no
>longer welcome in lesbian-only space.  it means that i suddenly
>have a precarious position in the lesbian community, that i am
>now seen along with other biwimmin as a potential traitor to the
>cause and ripper-off of lesbian energy.  i now have only a

	I see no reason why you have to accept this bifurcation.  How does
being bisexual ( a term I find too linear and misunderstood) threaten your
status as a lesbian?  If in your heart you are dedicated to the lesbian
cause, then any contradicting accusations by others are invalid.  Ideally,
we should be able to say, "Who cares about the ignorant opinions of others?,"
but in reality , of course, it is much harder to ignore such things.

>especially very politically aware intellectual dyke theorists.  (i
>also enjoy the company of the male version of the above, but anyway...)

	You sound like a very interesting person.

>i seriously doubt that i will do anything with this guy i have acquired
>a crush on, but that isn't the point.  the point is that i HAVE this
>crush.  dammit.  i don't want this.
>                                           -ailsa
>but...

	The sometime fallacious argument that you can't have your cake and
eat it, too, probably does *not* apply to you in this case.  I see no reason
why you cannot have both a relationship wih a malle *and* a legitimate claim
to the lesbian movement, AS A LESBIAN, if, in your mind, soul, and heart
you can reconcile these complimentary complexities.  As with all great
decisions, it is a personal endeavor.

  ____  
  \  /
   \/ Djelrik  (dsolis@koko.csustan.edu)
From: orc@delta9.turing.ac.uk (david parsons)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Edin<mumble> is a dangerous place.
Summary: Lack of sleep, aches and pains, odd looks from the bystanders.
Date: 18 Jul 92 23:42:37 GMT
Organization: Trainspotters-R-Us


  I think there must be something in the Edinburgh air that affects bisexuals.
The last 4 nights I've been there, the people I've met there have, WITHOUT
FAIL, managed to go from a (moderately) well-ordered collection of (whatever
we are) to disarranged heaps of passionately necking and/or fondling people.
In public, or private, and in taxicabs.  Probably on the bus too (the trains
have already seen some extremely small but effective heaps of people ;-)

  I expect that one of these days, I'll be in Edinburgh and people will start
saying "Weren't you in the pile of necking people at pub (x)?"


  I think I want to move to Scotland now.  I may not get any more sleep, nor
spend a evening free of intoxicants, and, for that matter, spend most of my 
time locked in a headbrace because of ("There's One!" <snap>) whiplash
injuries, but, gee, I've still got a whole bunch of spare braincells....
                __
  david parsons \/ "There's One!"
From: h431@quads.uchicago.edu (heather e blair)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Life does funny things sometimes
Date: 24 Jul 92 22:18:24 GMT
Reply-To: h431@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Jul22.150841.3472@HQ.Ileaf.COM> mhk@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Mark Kaepplein x1517) writes:
>
[In a discussion of bi women in the lesbian community]
>For such a community of aware, caring, loving, supportive... to reject,
>ostricise, and harrass bi-women seems contridictory. Most of the biwomen
>I know have talked about bad experiences they've had.
>
>Mark

I'm still reading "Closer to Home" (Iseult - when I'm done, I'll tell you
what I think), but the problem of being ostracized from feminist communities
is an old one - remember the "trashing" of the early 70's, where a woman
could be expelled for not being a proper participant in the "consensus
process".  This meant if a woman spoke as an individual to the press, or
something like that, she might be booted.  Bi-phobia seems to be a variant
on that theme.

The ur-theme is perhaps the cliques that mean little girls form in late
elementary school, where the "leader" decides who is "in" or "out" that
day. 

I spent a little bit of time hovering around the lesbian community afraid
to fully participate because I'm bi.  After hanging in bi circles for 3
years, I'm ready to say to even the most pc person, "I'm bi - I'm here -
get used to it!"

-- 

- Heather Blair       h431@midway.uchicago.edu
From: teuelhe@ioe.ac.uk (LULU HEALY)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: The War Between Us (Long)
Date: 31 Jul 92 10:08:48 GMT
Organization: Institute of Education, University of London

>In <1992Jul30.015952.769@news.Hawaii.Edu> johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan) writes:


[stuff about distribution of bi's in relation to kinsey scale deleted]

>Good point.  There may also be a skewed distribution of
>self-identifications due to social constraints, since there is still a
>lot of pressure to pick either one end of the Kinsey scale or the
>other.

>--John

Are you suggesting there is a similar pressure to pick EITHER end of
the Kinsey scale?

--Lu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: h431@quads.uchicago.edu (heather e blair)
Subject: Re: The War Between Us
Reply-To: h431@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 22:06:16 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.113050.10206@news.acns.nwu.edu> Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde) writes:
>
>I also agree that UCBU seems like a great model of les/gay-bisexual
>cooperation and breaking down boundaries (even going so far as sometimes 
>having a "token straight" ;).  It is also one of the best organized and
>effective bi organizations I've run into, 

ORGANIZED?  Us?  Naaaa!  

>and a very friendly place (not
>unlike a non-virtual version of soc.bi minus the cross-posts).  I don't 
>know if I should attribute this to: 1) the stirling qualities of key
>people like heather or mary anne or peg or cliff and ellen (etc.) 

Aw, shucks.  Thanks for the flattery.

>2) the
>open-minded, tolerant qualities of many people at the U. of C. (though 
>I know there are also some notorious 'phobes.) 3) the geographic isolation
>of Hyde Park that throws people back on their own resources and encourages
>initiative 4) incredible luck ;).

Ave Fortuna imperatrix mundi.
>
>-- 
> Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
> Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
> alunde@nuacvm.bitnet |  Feminist   |.......|.........................


-- 

- Heather Blair       h431@midway.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Look who's back - (was Re: Coming Out)
From: pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 17:33:35 GMT
Organization: Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, CA - aka Barnum & Bailey

cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) wrote...
>
>Ciaran, jet-lagged and giggling at fond memories.

Oh gawd - the vodka/cream/bbq-ripple/chocolate-whatever-it-was slurping
navel monster and foot lavisher extraordinare is baaaaaak!

You certainly did take the long, circuitous route home.  Care to share details?
(Then again maybe you shouldn't.)

Ellen
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: rhialto@cs.kun.nl (Olaf Seibert)
Subject: Re: Rights or Privilege
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:47:17 GMT

In <1992Jul29.145432.17937@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
>I think my understanding of privilege was slightly different. I thought
>of a privilege as an "extra something", _above_and_beyond_ a basic set of
>rights.

The Online Webster says:
1. priv.i.lege [...] : a right or immunity granted as a particular
benefit, advantage, or favor; [sic] esp : one attached specif. to a
position or an office

Warning! Explicit words ahead!

On the other hand, I've heard many bad things about Webster's, that it
is overly conservative, it defines "queer" as 1a: differing in some odd
way from what is usual or normal [the normal definition] [...] 1d:
sexually deviate : HOMOSEXUAL slang, and it doesn't define fuck at all.
Just a random selection of words, of course!

Hm, browsing, I see pe.nis: a male organ of copulation [huh, are men to
have more than one, according to traditional values?], and a va.gi.na
is just "a canal that leads from the uterus to the external orifice of
the genital canal" and has apparently nothing to do with copulation. It
doesn't define copulation. One has to think of the appropriate verb,
"to engage in sexual intercourse of gametes". Sexual intercourse is
"sexual connection esp. between humans". Even though Webster still
doesn't tell me /what/ to do with a "penis" at least I know that it
doesn't specifically require a human to do it with!

Dictionaries can be so much fun...
-- 
___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert      B4f+-t-w--g+k+(+)svmrp+  rhialto@cs.kun.nl
\X/   It'sneveragoodideatoarriveinthepastwithyourpantsaroundyourknees -Sam
Xref: sparky soc.bi:9913 soc.motss:33163
From: stevenso@Apple.COM (David Stevenson)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
Subject: Re: Screaming Yellow (Re: The War Between Us (Long))
Date: 29 Jul 92 21:29:32 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

asuccop@milton.u.washington.edu (Annemarie Succop) relates:
>	
>	heard at a street fair in seattle last year:
>	(by a guy waving around some kind of parody magazine he was selling)
>
>	'see bill gates naked; find out why it's called microsoft'
>
In answer to Ailsa N. T. Murphy's question of whether it is particularly
motss-ish to be interested in the size of men's dicks, I'd have to observe,
apparently.  Now one wonders if that magazine was Hippy Dick.
From: sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Bi in body or in mind (was Re: Bis and marriage)
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:28:28 GMT
Organization: News Addicts

cjohnson@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Coe Salzgeber) writes:
>Poor Iseult has hurt her knee, and is possibly facing ooky 
>treatment (from a cute doctor, though).  So I'll lead the
>crowd in offering a very gentle, comforting hug.  (Could 
>make good on that in person if we see you tomorrow, Iseult)

Let me second that hug; and I shall deliver it in person (tho I hope
long after the knee has actually healed) Very Soon Now ...

<*hug*>

Sara
-- 
 >{8-)     Sara Hopkins     (-8}<              _____^__
 Geography Dept.  Edinburgh Uni.  Drummond St. \ OOO/ / The Thing
 Edinburgh,  EH8  9XP,  UK. +44 (0/31) 650 2662 \++/ /   From
 >{8-) sara@geovax.ed.ac.uk (-8}<                \/\/ The Swamp
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver)
Subject: Re: _Prelude to a Kiss_
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 21:41:22 GMT

 cjohnson@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Coe Salzgeber) writes:
>Hullo, it's me (long-time muffin Coe, according to Ellen)
>I'm only a muffin because I usually don't have time to keep
>up.  But i am making a concerted effort now...

Muffin no more! Hello, Coe [hug]

>Great... so you are showing up next month, Colin is coming some
>time around Christmas... When do i get to meet the other cuties
>in Ellen's pictures?

If I count as a cutie, whenever we can afford to be in the same vicinity
other than electronically?

Tanaqui (one hug, one flirt.. standard post content: check)
From: IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: hot bi babes
Date: 31 Jul 92 05:38:58 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System

yeah, i want a pair of victoria's secret boxer shorts...

and i don't like straight men much either.  the guys i have
been close to all my life have been bi or gay, especially
a tall redhaired intellectual i know whom, every time i talk to
him, i think, "damn, i wish you'd been a woman."  the idea of
a tall redhaired intellectual iconoclastic and cynically
charming dyke just about KILLS me...  *sigh*

                                    -ailsa
From: Eric_S_Klien@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Electronic Matchmaker
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 23:54:38 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

Women, I am about to launch a free electronic matching service on 
Usenet.  This service is open to ALL sexual preferences.  
Unfortunately, more guys than gals have expressed an interest so far.  
If you would like to see the fourth draft of my questionnaire so we 
can alter it to also fit women's needs as well as men's, either send 
me mail or look at the copy I posted in alt.personals.  
 
This service is serious and I already have 139 men and 98 women signed 
up so far.  The site of the service has already been selected and 
programmers are being lined up for the construction of the 
listserver.  
 
                                                            Eric Klien
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: orc@vpnet.chi.il.us (david parsons)
Subject: Re: Clive's Pictures of the Party...
Summary: No shame.  None.
Organization: Department of Atomic Text Units
X-Sidebar: I believe that this is a "bluff"?
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 02:03:23 GMT

In article <memo.531322@cix.compulink.co.uk> cliveg@cix.compulink.co.uk attempts blackmail:
|There are three other shots that just cannot, and will not ever see the 
|light of day. I have the negatives and will hopefully be a *very* rich 
|man as a result of it. I thought shots like this never got through photo 
|processing, but it just goes to show that automated systems now let quite 
|a range of pictures through these days...

   There's only one *little* problem with that plan for wealth; the person
or persons who you'd be getting the wealth from would need to be embarrassed
enough actually pay you.  With some of us, this might be difficult (Bethan
knows the only vaguely blackmailable stuff about *me* during my seige of
Scotland and it's so mundane that it wouldn't even be noticed in this
flurry of flirt^H^H^H^H^Hposting) because we'd be asking for 8x10 glossies
for our private libraries and the soc.bi archives.

   (Though, if those pictures *do* involve me and a compromising position,
please let me know: as far as I know, the soc.bi party was one of only
two nights when I didn't get laid during my seige and I'd be delighted
to find out I'd miscounted.)

                 __
   david parsons \/ "It's shameless the way those queers carry on!"
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: mhk@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Mark Kaepplein x1517)
Subject: Re: Lesbian denial (was: Life does funny things sometimes)
Reply-To: mhk@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Mark Kaepplein x1517)
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 16:22:24 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.010224.21811@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
> In <1992Jul22.150841.3472@HQ.Ileaf.COM>
> mhk@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Mark Kaepplein x1517) writes:
> 
> >(too controversial for a recent poster?)

This thread started out about the rejection of bi women in lesbian
groups. The root causes for discriminatory actions like that are fear
and denial. If its homophobes experiencing fear and denial of their
homoerotic feelings, or heterophobes experiencing fear and denial
of their heteroerotic feelings. I'm using "heterophobe" and "homophobe"
equivelently. You would probably like to see "biphobe" used instead of
"heterophobe" - more what is commonly used. Perhaps we should stop
using "homophobia" and use "biphobia". That is, anyone experiencing
erotic feelings outside their stated identity and reacting negatively
is then biphobic. Hence:

practicing gay + heteroeric feelings + fear/denial = biphobia
practicing straight + homoerotic feelings + fear/denial = biphobia

Fear and denial comes to play in lesbian communities that practice male
bashing - putting down all things "male". Like domestic violence,
war, conspicuous consumpsion, aggression, power, and confrontation.
Consorting with (heteroeroticism) or emulating (battering) "the enemy"
are unpleasant things feared and denied.

I've exaggerated to make a point. That is: reactions when fear and
denial are in play are often negative. It doesn't matter if you're
straight or gay. Fear and denial are trouble. If you try and strictly
define yourself into a rigid little box, you're destined for trouble.
That's why I feel bi's have it more together - accepting and
acknowledging whatever feelings come along.

Mark

PS I sometimes use the terms heterophobic and homosexist to get people
to think. I know its not nice. Some gays expend a lot of energy bashing
breeders. I think its a heterophobic thing to do by homosexist
individuals. Having breeding instincts, I'm personally insulted and
rather not have gay bashing or breeder bashing.

PPS On a lighter note... (true story)

Dear Abbey,
  Last night I was down on Cape Cod with one of my roommates and her
girlfriend Deb. Well I think I had too much to drink because I ended up
singing show tunes with Deb playing the piano.  I've never had
such urges before and am a little afraid that it might happen again.

Concerned.

Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: rhialto@cs.kun.nl (Olaf Seibert)
Subject: Re: The War Between Us
Organization: Intravenous News Addicts
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:13:22 GMT

>Ciaran McHale writes:
>	Bisexuals need to build their own community rather than try to
>	integrate with the existing lesbian and gay communities.

[...]
In article <40015@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> db@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Dave Berry) writes:
>Actually, I'd phrase it rather differently:
>
>       Bisexuals need to build their own community and try to
>       work with existing communities, including lesbian and
>       gay communities.

This sounds better. I'm rather against separatism (on most issues), so
working together in general does seem like a good idea. On the other
hand, we must (as always when groups of people are working together)
realise on what grounds we are groups. I mean, some groups exist
because of a very specific mutual interest or characteristic, others
are more loose and differentiated in aspects besides the one that
groups them. We must keep in mind that we are one of the latter groups
(though here on the net we usually share academic education and/or
computer science), which makes working with ourselves (and with others)
more complicated.
-- 
___ Olaf 'Rhialto' Seibert      B4f+-t-w--g+k+(+)svmrp+  rhialto@cs.kun.nl
\X/   It'sneveragoodideatoarriveinthepastwithyourpantsaroundyourknees -Sam