HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: yoongc@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Yoong Hon Chong)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: Re: Problems with tvtwm and clients using SHAPE (like xeyes and oclock)
Keywords: tvtwm SHAPE oclock xeyes
Date: 13 Apr 92 18:49:04 GMT
Organization: University of Sussex

In article <1992Apr1.034805.14534@cs.rochester.edu>, lubkin@cs.rochester.edu (Saul Lubkin) writes:
> I seem to be having a problem with tvtwm and the SHAPE extension
> under X11R4.
> 
> If I use tvtwm with a client such as xeyes or oclock, that makes
> use of the SHAPE extension to produce circular, or oval, windows,
> then tvtwm draws a one pixel rectangular border around the otherwise
> non-rectangular window.  If xeyes or oclock is "zoomed" or "fullzoomed",
> using the standard twm "f.zoom" or "f.fullzoom" functions, then
> the window is expanded as expected -- but a "ghost" window is left
> behind, or else placed in the upper left hand corner.  This is a
> rough copy of the original xeyes or oclock window -- but perhaps
> with some features missing.  It appears that the "ghost" window
> is not recognized as existing by the window manager -- clicking a 
> button over it produces a menu as would be expected for the root
> window.  This menu, however, doesn't appear to be functional --
> and it doesn't "go away", as would be normal, after clicking a button
> in the root window.
> 
> Unzooming the enlarged xeyes or oclock gets rid of the "ghost"
> and makes the xeyes or oclock window its original size, and also
> gets rid of any ghost menu windows created as above -- but the xeyes
> or oclock window is then sometimes obviously rectangular, with a
> solid white or black background throughout the window.
> 

I have thse same problem as well. My tvtwm is running on a Solbourne
S4000 (SPARC clone) Workstation. The 'ghost' i have seema bit different.
When I pull down a menu and after executing something from the menu, the
'ghost' menu appears. I am too on PatchLevel 6. Any help will be
appreciated.

Chris

-- 
===============================================================================
Chris Y H Chong - Comp.Sc. 		Internet: yoongc@central.susx.ac.uk
University Of Sussex				  yoongc@cogs.susx.ac.uk
United Kingdom					  yoongc@syma.susx.ac.uk
From: jain@spectra.com (Sadhana Jain)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: Does anybody have mit fixes 2 for X11r5?
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:28:55 GMT
Organization: Spectragraphics Corporation


Hi!

If anybody has mit fixes2 for X11r5, could you please send it to me at
jain@spectra.com. I have asked mit to send it but it takes time and I need
to put the fix as soon as possible.

Thanks,
jain@spectra.com.
From: kartik@hls.com (Kartik Chandrasekhar)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: Printing a window
Date: 7 Apr 1992 12:20:26 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Hi
	Can somebody please suggest me a way to print out
a window in X from within an application. The situation is
as described below:

	The window has a print button which on being clicked
creates a dump (xwd ?) of the entire window  and then sends it
to the printer after proper conversion (xpr ?).  

	xwd seems to require the user to click on the window
to select it, and I would like to avoid this. 

	I would appreciate any help or code fragments.

	Thanks a lot.

ck
From: gaspar@stl-04sima.army.MIL (Al Gaspar)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: HELP! I can't get on list
Date: 15 Apr 92 13:38:37 GMT
Organization: The Internet


I have been trying to get my name added to the xpert mailing list for
a couple of weeks now (sending to xpert-request@expo.lcs.mit.edu) and
have not heard anything.  I apologize for cluttering up the list itself,
but could someone please help me get on the list.

Thanks--

Al

-- 
Al Gaspar	<gaspar@stl-08st-louis-emh2.army.mil>
USAMC SIMA, ATTN:  AMXSI-TTC, 1222 Spruce St., St. Louis, MO  63103-2834
COMMERCIAL:  (314) 331-4354	AUTOVON:  555-4354
relay1.uu.net!st-louis-emh2.army.mil!gaspar
From: tmcconne@sedona.intel.com (Tom McConnell)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: X11R5 on DEC ultrix 3.1 - is it worth it?
Keywords: X11R5 ultrix 3.1
Date: 30 Mar 92 17:05:32 GMT
Reply-To: tmcconne@sedona.intel.com
Organization: Intel Corporation, Embedded Microcomputer Division


  Howdy,

  Platform: DEC VAXstation 3100, ultrix 3.1, gcc-2.1, X11R5pl10.

  I am working on porting X11R5 to ultrix 3.1 on DEC VAXstations. Since ultrix
3.1 is BSD 4.2, and not at all ANSI, this turns out to be a pain.

  The initial problem is that ./mit/config/imake.c #include's stdlib.h, which is
not part of ultrix 3.1. I can get around this initially by modifying imakemdep.h
so that X_NOT_STDC_ENV is defined. This makes imake.c skip stdlib.h. In fact I
had to use "BOOTSTRAPFLAGS="-DX_NOT_STDC_ENV" to get the stupid thing to compile
during make World.

  Unfortunately, during the make imake is made again, and this time the
BOOTSTRAPFLAGS are not used. The result: imake fails to build, and make World
fails.

  Now to the question: Is it worth "fixing" X11R5 to get it to come up on ultrix
3.1?

  I have X11R4, but some things have a hard time compiling (due to lack of
patches?). Worse, I don't want to maintain different versions of X on different
platforms.

  Eventually the VAXstations will be running ultrix 4.2, which is what
./mit/config/ultrix.cf assumes in the first place. I have no control over when,
but if it is "very" difficult to configure X11R5 for ultrix 3.1, I will wait.

  Thanks for any help.

    Cheers,

    Tom McConnell
--
 Tom McConnell          |     Internet: tmcconne@sedona.intel.com
 Intel, Corp. C3-21     |     Phone: (602)-554-8229
 5000 W. Chandler Blvd. | The opinions expressed are my own. No one in 
 Chandler, AZ  85226    | their right mind would claim them.
From: basti@orthogo.uucp (Sebastian Wangnick)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: Re: Communication.
Date: 15 Apr 92 11:30:57 GMT
Organization: Orthogon System GmbH, Bremen, Germany

|> >> Here's my problem:  I have an X-Windows application process running and
|> >> a non-X communications process running.  When a message is received by my
|> >> comm process, I want to interrupt the X-Windows application and update
|> >> a status window indicating that a message has arrived.  What is a good
|> >> way to do this?  Do I have to make my comm process an X-Windows process
|> >> in order to to successfully communicate?  I'm on a VAXstation 3100 using
|> >> VMS and Motif 1.1.
|> 
|> >We had to implement a similar sort of thing, and found that we had to use a
|> >polling approach rather than an interrupt-driven one.  I'll preface this by
|> >saying that I know nothing about any utilities available on the VAX.  Our
|> >application runs on DG AViiON's and uses Xipc for interprocess communication.
|> 
|> >In the X/Motif application, a timeout is registered for 'n' seconds, after 
|> >which the application's Xipc queue is checked for any new messages.  These
|> >messages can come from any other process - X/Motif or not.  If there are more
|> >messages on the queue, the next X timeout registered is 0 seconds; if there
|> >are no more messages, the timeout is 'n' seconds.  With this implementation,
|> >all processes use a common IPC mechanism but the purely comm processes don't
|> >have to get involved with X/Motif.  If your comm mechanism can support this
|> >scenario, it might be the way to go.
|> 
|> Why so complicated!
|> Make your comm-process a simple X-process (without any windows).
|> Then you use ICCC to communicate with your X-application.
|> There is no need for timeouts and your application is totally
|> independent of the underlying operating system.

Still another approach is to use XtAppAddInput if this is available under VMS.
From: amir@matis.UUCP (Amir Katz)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: X11R5 Font Server Questions
Date: 7 Apr 92 19:38:54 GMT
Reply-To: matis!ingr.COM!amir%matis.UUCP@uunet.uu.net
Organization: SEE Technologies Ltd.

G'Day Everyone,
I've just joined this mailing list, so this may have been asked many times
in the past. Sorry 'bout that.

My questions are:
1. Is FS really necessary for regular X clients?
2. I start FS - no sweat. But all my FS-related supplied clients (e.g.
   'fsinfo -server servername') say that they can't connect with the font
   server. 
   What format should the parameter 'servername' have?

-- Thanks in advance
-- 
/* Amir J. Katz          | UUCP:     uunet!ingr!matis!amir               */
/* System Specialist     | Internet: amir%matis.UUCP@ingr.COM            */
/* SEE Technologies Ltd. | Voice:    +972 52-584684, Fax: +972 52-543917 */
Xref: sparky comp.windows.x:9809 comp.windows.x.motif:3131
From: rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x,comp.windows.x.motif
Subject: Should XtOverrideTranslations work this way?
Date: 9 Apr 1992 21:17:37 GMT
Organization: Bolt, Beranek & Newman, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: spcsun25.bbn.com

In the following Wcl "program", a new translation for
"<Key>" seems to override the old translation for 
"<Key>g", even though the left-hand side is not the
same.  Why does this happen?

The evidence: before you push the button, hitting "g"
in the Primitive widget prints out "G key pressed".  After
you push the button, hitting "g" prints out "key pressed (override)".

----------
*main.wcClassName: XmRowColumn
*main.wcChildren: but, raw

*but.wcClassName: XmPushButton
*but.labelString: Override Translations
*but.wcCallback: WcSetValueCB (this.translations: #override \n\
   <FocusIn>: PrimitiveTraverseDown())
*but.activateCallback: WcTraceCB (overriding translations) \n\
    WcSetValueCB (^raw.translations: #override\n\
      <Key>: WcTraceACT("key pressed (override)"))

*raw.wcClassName: XmPrimitive
*raw.translations: \
   <Btn1Down>: WcTraceACT("Button 1 down") \n\
   <Key>g: WcTraceACT("G key pressed") \n\
   <Key>: WcTraceACT("Key pressed (original)")
*raw.height: 30
*raw.background: green

-- 
Ron Newman		rnewman@bbn.com
From: bgendler@opus.starlab.csc.COM (Bruce Gendler)
Subject: Caching pixmaps
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 15:59:44 GMT


I am writing an application that performs panning by 
copying 300x300 pixel squares from a 600x600 pixel
pixmap to a window.  I am using XCopyArea to perform
the copy.  My questions are the following:

1.  Are 90,000 bytes being sent from the program to
    the X Server every time XCopyArea is called?

2.  Is there a notion in X of caching the pixmap on
    the server and only sending the server the copy
    parameters rather than the 90,000 bytes?

Thanks in advance.
From: lora@askinc.ask.COM (Lora Shirley)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: OSF/Motif Devloper's Meeting
Keywords: X11R4 motif osf
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:07:26 GMT
Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Inc.


               OSF/Motif Developers Meeting: April 15

  Please join us at a jointly sponsored meeting of the OSF/Motif
  Developers Group and Drinking Society and the BayCHI OSF/Motif BOF.
  The meeting is at 7:00 PM on Wednesday, April 15.

  The topic for the evening is "Introduction to WCL" (Widget Creation
  Library), presented by Ron Hughes.  Ron Hughes has been active in
  developing X and Motif applications for a number of years.  He is
  currently Manager of X Development at Frame Technology.

  The meeting location is at NCD's facilities, 339 N. Bernardo in 
  Mountain View, directly off of the Central Expressway.
 


  About the Santa Clara Valley OSF/Motif groups:
  *********************************************

  The Silicon Valley OSF/Motif Developers and Drinking Society and
  BayCHI's OSF/Motif BOF (Birds-of-a-Feather) group are two Bay
  area groups that hold (almost) monthly meetings to discuss Motif
  development issues.  The topics discussed include: releases and
  features of the Motif toolkit, X11, UI builders, and products
  developed using Motif.

  Meetings are held on the third Wednesday of the month, at 7pm at
  NCD's facility at 339 N. Bernardo St. in Mountain View.  North
  Bernardo Street is located on the Central Expressway, between
  Mary and Castro Streets.

  There are no membership or admission fees.

  A joint planning committee schedules the meetings.  If you would like to
  discuss a topic of interest to this group, please contact Lora Shirley
  415-335-5288.


  Planned Meeting Dates for First Half of 1992:
  ********************************************

  Wednesday, April 15, 1992

  Wednesday, May 20, 1992

  Wednesday, June 17, 1992

  


Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
From: nathan@netcom.com (Nathan Alan Whelchel)
Subject: X Toolkit Callback Order
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 92 06:31:34 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 


The X Toolkit Technical Reference Manual (O'Rielly & Assoc.) states that
the function XtAddCallback() adds the specified callback to the
end of the callback list.

The X Toolkit Programming Manual shows by example (in section 3.4.2)
that callbacks are called, in sequence, from the first entry in the list 
to the last.

My experience tells me that it works as these manuals indicate it should.

I have had a few people insist that callback invocation order cannot
be gauranteed from one implementation to the next.  (Although none has
coughed up their references, for whatever reason) 

Question:

  Can one depend on callbacks (more than one registered for a single
callback resource) being invoked in order they were added to the list.

Nat.
nathan@netcom.com
From: bmears@deltahp.jsc.nasa.gov (Brad Mears)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: Installing X11R4 on 9000/370
Date: 9 Apr 1992 21:45:35 GMT
Reply-To: bmears@deltahp.jsc.nasa.gov
Organization: Barrios Technology @ NASA/JSC; Houston

I am trying to install the MIT distribution of X11R4 on my 9000/370 running
HP-UX 7.0.  I have successfully compiled the libraries, server and clients,
but I'm having a problem when I try to do "make install".  The first few lines
of error messages look like this :
>installing in ./config...
>        .././util/scripts/bsdinst.sh -c    imake /usr/bin/X11
>install: X11 was not found anywhere!
>        /bin/sh .././util/scripts/mkdirhier.sh /usr/lib/X11/config
>+ .././util/scripts/bsdinst.sh -c -m 0444 imakemdep.h /usr/lib/X11/config
>usage: install [options] file [dir1 ...]
>+ .././util/scripts/bsdinst.sh -c -m 0444 Imake.rules /usr/lib/X11/config
>usage: install [options] file [dir1 ...]
>+ .././util/scripts/bsdinst.sh -c -m 0444 Imake.tmpl /usr/lib/X11/config
>usage: install [options] file [dir1 ...]

I saw the note in hp.cf that told me to install util/scripts/bsdinstall.sh
before trying to install.  This script exists.  Is there something else I
have to do?

I feel like the solution is pretty simple, but it has managed to elude me so
far.  Anybody want to help?

p.s. I know this belongs on comp.sys.hp, but my newsfeed won't let me post
     to that group.

-- 
Brad Mears
bmears@deltahp.jsc.nasa.gov                      No disclaimer, no quote
Xref: sparky comp.windows.x:9575 comp.unix.aix:5190
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x,comp.unix.aix
Subject: displaying an X Windows session on multiple displays
From: eran@ramon.bgu.ac.il (Eran Lachs)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 13:05:25 GMT
Organization: Ben-Gurion University, Beer Sheva, Israel

Hi folks,

   I need such a program for a class of 25 IBM X-terminals we have hooked
to an RS-6000/550. The FAQ handles this in question/answer no. 86.
I got the two packages suggested. Big question: anyone managed to compile
xmx or shX under AIX ? Any tips are very much welcomed.

Thanks in advance,

Eran Lachs   (eran@ramon.bgu.ac.il)
Ben Gurion University
Beer Sheva, Israel
From: mahan@tgv.COM (Patrick L. Mahan)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: RE: Help: cannot use the postscript previewer on my NCD X-terminal
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:58:32 GMT
Organization: The Internet

#
#I have a NCD X-terminal whose X boot server and host are DEC stations.
#I cannot use the postscript previewer to view any postscript file.
#
#The error message is:
#
#X Toolkit Error: Server does not have PostScript extension.
#Process 11202 exited "Postscript Previewer"
#
#Do I need to set some configure at the X boot server?
#If you know the answer, please send me a e-mail. Thanks.
#

No, the NCD's currently do not have support for the Display PostScript
extension.  There is no way to configure this at the boot server.

Patrick L. Mahan

--- TGV Window Washer ------------------------------- Mahan@TGV.COM ---------

Waking a person unnecessarily should not be considered  - Lazarus Long
a capital crime.  For a first offense, that is            From the Notebooks of
							  Lazarus Long
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
From: kall@mayo.EDU (Bruce Kall)
Subject: removing window decorations
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 20:54:06 GMT

Xpert,

System: Sun 4/300, SunOS 4.1.1, OW3.0

I want to create a window that will fill my entire 1152x950
screen with NO window decorations (i.e., really get the whole screen)

PROBLEM:  I still get about a 2 pixel wide border around my window that is NOT
in my window.

This outside border seems to be between the resize bars OW puts up
(that I thought i deleted!!!!)

Is my deletion of the resize corners not enough????
(i.e., is there something else I need to remove).

NOTE: I don't want to use override_redirect because then I can't
seem to get at the hardware colormap and set the 256 colors I want.


Does anybody have any suggestions on how to get the rest of my screen away from
OW??


===================================== code snipet
==================================

Atom _OL_DECOR_HEADER;
Atom _OL_DECOR_DEL;
Atom _OL_DECOR_RESIZE;

_OL_DECOR_DEL = XInternAtom(the_display,"_OL_DECOR_DEL",False);
_OL_DECOR_HEADER = XInternAtom(the_display,"_OL_DECOR_HEADER",False);
_OL_DECOR_RESIZE = XInternAtom(the_display,"_OL_DECOR_RESIZE",False);


xswa.background_pixel = background_value;
#define CWMASK CWBackPixel

window = XCreateWindow(dpy,DefaultRootWindow(dpy,0),0,0,
  1152,950, 0, CopyFromParent,InputOutput,CopyFromParent,CWMASK,&xswa);


XChangeProperty(dpy,window,_OL_DECOR_DEL,XA_ATOM,32,
  PropModeAppend,(unsigned char *) &_OL_DECOR_HEADER,1);

XChangeProperty(dpy,window,_OL_DECOR_DEL,XA_ATOM,32,
  PropModeAppend,(unsigned char *) &_OL_DECOR_RESIZE,1);

============================= end of snip =============================



\------------------------------------------------------------\
 \   Bruce Kall                \  Internet:   Kall@Mayo.edu   \
  \   Mayo Clinic (Foundation)  \  Phone: (507)-255-4768       \
   \   Rochester, MN 55905       \                              \
    \------------------------------------------------------------\
From: g9129499@cc.uow.edu.au (Jeremy Lawrence)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: Re: Motif vs Open-look vs X
Date: 8 Apr 92 10:37:49 GMT
Organization: University Of Wollongong

ahsiung@bbn.com (Anita Hsiung) writes:


>Motif/Open Look -- Commercial, so you have to pay.
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Wrong. The Open Look window manager and Xview libraries, as well as a few
Open Look utilities, are in the MIT archives (export.lcs.mit.edu).

Which you prefer (OL or Motif) is purely a matter of taste. The consensus
round here is that OL is nicer.

Jeremy
_____________________________________________________________________
Jeremy Lawrence                                jeremy@snrc.uow.edu.au
Switched Networks Research Centre          or:    g9129499@uow.edu.au
University of Wollongong, Australia                    +61-42-21 3244
From: coleman@zoo.toronto.edu (Ron Coleman)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: SoftPC on Decstation hardware
Date: 14 Apr 92 21:08:39 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

Has anyone had any experience with SoftPC on Decstation hardware?  We
have version 2.11 and have not been overly impressed with its speed,
nor the fact that it can only do EGA and HERC emulation.  I suspect
there is a newer version than 2.11.  Does anyone have it?  Is it
better than 2.11 in any substantial way?  (We have a terrible time
trying to get ANY information at all out of our local DEC 
representative and INSIGNIA -- makers of SoftPC -- say they can't
talk to us since they have an arrangement that DEC handles the
product).  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
-- Ron Coleman
From: simon@lia.di.epfl.ch (Simon Leinen)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: Re: R5 and Type1 fonts
Date: 5 Apr 92 15:50:57 GMT
Organization: DI-LIA -- Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne
In-reply-to: soulard@iznogoud.inria.fr's message of 30 Mar 92 13:42:06 GMT
X-Md4-Signature: 55905b1cabff584a76d4319f328fa43c

In article <3472@seti.UUCP> soulard@iznogoud.inria.fr (Herve Soulard) writes:

   I would like to use some of the .pfb fonts found on cica with X1R5
   (in fact make for atm on Windows).  Our R5 is compiled with the
   Type1 extensions and the fonts provided by Bitstream and in the
   contrib work fine.

   Can I use the ATM fonts directly or must I do some conversions ?

You must convert the fonts to .pfa format first.  If you have
Ghostscript 2.4, use "pfbtogs":

	pfbtogs futura3.pfb futura3.pfa

Then you have to construct logical font names for the fonts.  If
you're interested, I can send you an undocumented Perl script that
guesses XLFD names from the attributes in the .pfa files and also
generates a Fontmap file for Ghostscript.
-- 
Simon.
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
From: imp@solbourne.com (Warner Losh)
Subject: Re: X comms protocol
Organization: Solbourne, User Interface Group
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 19:26:51 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.160445.8567@nuscc.nus.sg> eletanjm@nuscc.nus.sg
(Tan Jin Meng @ NUS) writes:
>I am jus wondering...
>	"X can support any reliable byte stream protocol"
>Then why are all the implementations of X that I've seen so far are all
>based on IP (with ethernet or serial line) as the lower level 
>communications protocol.

Well, this is only half ture.  All of the implementations that you
refer to are on top of TCP, not IP (well, indirectly).  TCP is built
on top of IP and makes it a reliable, byte stream protocol.  Since
everybody uses TCP/IP for their networking (well, almost everybody)
this gives X good connectivity.  Other transports have been used....

>Do such implementations exist? If not, why? If there are, then I am sure
>there are many people interested in hearing more about such products.

DEC provides X over LAT and X over DECnet for their various
workstations.  A long time ago I was told that someone had an X server
and Xlib using ChaosNet as the transport, but I can't find the
reference anymore.

Warner
-- 
Warner Losh		imp@Solbourne.COM
"You're the woman that I've always dreamed of.  Well, not really, but you are
 good enough for now."
From: boiko@star.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: Xstone Rating for Workstations
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:32:14 GMT
Reply-To: boiko@star.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


	Does anyone have a list of the Xstone rating for the 
 most popular workstation and x-terminal now available?

						Thanks
						-mike-
From: converse@expo.lcs.mit.EDU (Donna Converse)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: Re: Xt Translation Questions
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:00:43 GMT
Organization: X Consortium, MIT Laboratory for Computer Science



> Thanks for your quick response. However, <Expose> is no good - when my Ps()
> is called, an Expose event is generated, so the program goes into an
> infinite loop.

Oh.

> So I said, forget Expose, let's go for MapNotify. But, seems
> like either mwm is not passing the event to the application, or the Xt
> toolkit does not propagate it the the widgets. Same thing happens with
> UnmapNotify. This is what I have right now:
> 
> xzap*multiList.translations:	#override\n\
> 	<MapNotify>:	Ps()


The translations for MapNotify and UnmapNotify must be installed on the
Shell widget.  This is implied by the ICCCM section 4.2.5.