HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mattf@cac.washington.edu (Matthew Freedman)
Subject: Wheel Failure/Crash/Warranty Question
Organization: U.W. Information Systems
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:19:57 GMT

This weekend I was riding down a short drop (maybe 8 to 10 feet), a
somewhat steep and rocky descent, but not at all difficult or tricky,
at moderate speed, when suddenly I was flying over the handlebars.
After taking a hard fall on my elbow, I saw that my front wheel was
potato chipped. Since I didn't feel any loss of control before I was
in the air, I am assuming that what happened was that the wheel
failed, got caught in the brakes, and stopped, sending me over the
top. 

This is a new (about a month) 92 Cannondale Delta V 1500 (XT
components, front-shock). I can't remember exactly what the rim is. My
question is, is this "acceptable" behavior for a wheel? I.e. do I have
a reasonable case for getting the wheel rebuilt under the warranty? Or
is it, "your crash, your fault". I am pretty sure that I only crashed
because the rim failed, and I don't think I was subjecting it to
unreasonable stress, especially since it had a suspension to soak up
impacts. Could the wheel have been built badly? If so, is there any
way to tell?

I haven't gone into the bike shop yet.

	-- Matt

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
= Matthew M. Freedman                                                 =
= U. of Washington Information Systems       mattf@cac.washington.edu =
= 4545 15th Ave. NE; 4th Floor               (206) 543-5593           =
= Seattle, WA  98105                                                  =
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: idelson@bms.com (Ira Idelson)
Subject: Re: How to secure pump to frame?
Reply-To: idelson@bms.com
Organization: Bristol-Myers Squibb PRI
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 12:46:23 GMT

In article G2z@news.cso.uiuc.edu, tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes:
>My borthers new Colango (The $1200 one with Dura-Ace STI) has no pump peg.
>How do people secure pumps to their road bikes so they don't rattle?  I assumed
>people use those velcro thingies but wanted other ides since it seems like
>they would rattle.
>-Terry
>


I got a little gadget at my local bike store for ~$1.  It is sort of like a pump peg mounted onto a hose clamp type mechanism. It is made of plastic. Set it where you want it on the top tube and  fasten it in place with a screwdriver


Ira Idelson
From: milts@mse.cse.ogi.edu (Milt Scholl)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: How to secure pump to frame?
Date: 18 Nov 92 20:19:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.46083
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute, Material Science & Engineering

Joe Chapman writes:
>Ira Idelson writes:
>>I got a little gadget at my local bike store for ~$1.
>>It is sort of like a pump peg mounted onto a hose clamp type mechanism.
>
>About twenty years ago this was the usual way of mounting a pump.  You
>could also get one with a round metal cap instead of a pump peg--this
>was widely considered to be the more classy choice (unless it obscured
>the Reynolds 531 sticker, which took precedence).
>
>A much more noble gadget than some semi-functional Velcro monstrosity.

I use use two of those velcro thingys to hold my pump on my mtb.  The
frame fit pump does not and never has, frame fit well.  No matter how
hard it was jammed into the frame it would eventually fall off on a 
big bounce.  Now I velcro it to the fork slider of my manitous and
it has never fallen off or got caught in the spokes - even though
I have ;) ;)

milt scholl
From: truesdel@ics.uci.edu (R. Scott Truesdell)
Subject: Re: Wheel Failure/Crash/Warranty Question
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 19 Nov 92 01:07:34 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech


That's a tough one. I know that when one goes OTB* everything happens
pretty fast and it's hard to exactly reconstruct the sequence of events.

If you are relatively new to riding with suspension, this could have
contributed. I came close on many occations to getting bucked off by a
newly lively rear wheel when I first added suspension forks. Front
suspension is actually a detriment for slow technical descents. If the hill
is fairly steep and your weight is reasonably low and aft for a rigid fork
bike, the change in geometry as the forks compress could be enough to alter
your weight distribution to the critical OTB threshold. Oddly, in this
situation, one is often helped by going FASTER. (Of course, going faster
means the rider needs faster reflexes and more experience.) If you are
rolling along slowly the bike/rider may not have momentum to soak up a bump
and keep rolling. You might instead experience a sudden drop in speed and
thus go OTB as the low-mass component (the bike) stops while the high-mass
component (the rider) continues onward!

Wheels never 'taco' unless they feel forces from the side as opposed to
force along the rolling path. A possibilty for your failure is that the
front wheel lost traction while steering and started skidding sideways.
This would make the bike more likely to stop abruptly at a relatively small
bump and at the same time deform the wheel.

In any event, almost no shop or company will repair a taco'd wheel under
warrenty because wheels never fail that way unless they are loaded sideways
which is not the intent of the manufacturer. Yes, it happens, but it's not
supposed to.

Don't feel bad. I totaled my first frame within 3 months of starting
mountain biking. No warrenty repair. I argued that I was riding in the
"mountains" on a "mountain" bike and it failed. They laughed and said, to
paraphrase, "...ah! But not riding CORRECTLY..."

  --scott

* OTB = Over The Bars   :-)
From: jcliu@four-lab4.Berkeley.EDU (James C. Liu)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: chain pins
Date: 24 Nov 1992 05:29:40 GMT
Organization: UC Berkeley Dept. of Nuclear Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: four-lab4.berkeley.edu
Keywords: cheap pins

In article <1992Nov19.160427.8764@eng.umd.edu> naru@eng.umd.edu 
(Naruhisa Takashima) writes:

>I do wish the pins that 
>Shimano sold were cheaper though (3 for $5 seems wee bit expensive.)
>
>Naru

Last year in Tokyo, at the Shibuya Tokyu Hanza department store, I
stocked up on lots of stuff at excellent prices.  HG chain pins, 3/Y190
or around 3 for for $1.60.  Prices have gone up since then, but it's
still cheaper.  One example I guess of what happens after Japan has
conquered and dominate in a certain market.  They raise prices!

Jaa, mata...
=======================================================================
James C. Liu |    KARAOKE Addict!     Karaoke: You're the STAR!!!!    |
             |    Wanna go? Need someone who sings worse than you do? |
             |    Know about a cool karaoke bar? send e-mail          |
=======================================================================
From: marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Cannondale Crit Frame
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:25:58 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Servio Corp, Beaverton Oregon, US

Tye Brady (tye@elvis.mit.edu) writes:

> tye
> click-click-see ya 

Real (TM) Cyclists don't bother shifting to drop people...

    Marc San Soucie
    Portland, Oregon
    marcs@slc.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: gsurbeck@eng.umd.edu (Gregory D. Surbeck)
Subject: Re: Cannondale MTB's (was Cannondale Crit)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 20:56:48 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park

I rode with a friend for a few months who rides an M1000.  One
complaint I have heard about them is that the thin wall aluminum can
dent easily if you fall abruptly sideways in a crash.  He has never
had a problem in all the crashes I've watched. 
One problem he has had with it is the components -- they wear out.
This isn't a remark launched at frame quality, but at their choice of
components.  The Suntour (XC Pro?) have just not stood up to standard
mtn. bike abuse.  He has lost front chainrings during cranking, broken
the cassette, etc.  He has had to invest over $100 in replacing broken
components during normal mtn. biking since February.  When he took it
back to the C'dale shop he bought it from they told him that taking
the bike off-road was excessive abuse and they would not be
responsible!  I don't like that statement, which I have heard from
many bike stores.
He likes the frame, but he hates C'dale's component choices.


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: lloyd@leland.Stanford.EDU (William Koenig Lloyd)
Subject: Re: Majic Motorcycles
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 20:01:41 GMT

In article <37668@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> x3420abo@maple.circa.ufl.edu writes:
>
>	Well, has anyone ever heard of them before?
>
>	Apparently they seem to be on the cutting edge of drive-trains.
>Specifically into shaving significant amounts of weight and still
>maintaining superior stiffness and durability.  I saw in "Bicycling"
>that they have designed a 9-16T rear cluster!  This is in conjunction
>with their 26-39T front using their cranks of course, but hey, why
>wouldn't you?!
>
>Sorry about misspelling maGic. I hit the wrong key.
>
>Does anyone know what else they make?
>
>Comment, mail, etc welcome...
>
>"You gotta live hard to be hard" Tom Hayes (because in death he did part)

I guess Magic is designing cranks, casettes (for their own hubs I take it),
and wheels (kinda funky looking, wasn't it).  But I have to laugh at the idea
of a 9-16 ALUMINUM rear cluster.  I'm pretty sure I could wear out an 
aluminum 9-tooth cog in 1 ride.

Bill


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: naru@eng.umd.edu (Naruhisa Takashima)
Subject: Re: CHANGING TO STI??????
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 21:17:28 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Maryversity von Uniland, College Park
Originator: naru@valkyrie.eng.umd.edu



>Firstly I would use Shimano 105 STI shiofters instead of Ultegra.  The
>Ultegra's are speed and probably wouldn't work well on 7-speed 105 plus
>they would cost more.  I haven't seen 105 STI for sale in any of the catalogs
>yet though.  It may not be available by individual components yet.
>-Terry

From what I've heard at a bike shop, the 105 STI will only be 
available as OEM, i.e, not available for consumers.  Also, looking
at the catalog for '93 Cannondales, the 105 STI will have 8spd cassetes.
So looks like, even though you might have 105, you'll still need 
new cassetes and derailer.

Naru Takashima
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: lloyd@leland.Stanford.EDU (William Koenig Lloyd)
Subject: Re: CHANGING TO STI??????
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 01:52:45 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.165058.25369@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> dhm1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DANIEL HILL MCCAULEY) writes:
>I am planning on converting my bike to the shimano 600sti shifting.
>Could someone please tell me what is needed to make the changover.  I
>currently have the following setup.
>
>    7 speed 105 cassette.
>    105 rear der. and frnt der.
>
>        Thanks.  All help is appreciated!
>
>
>-Dan McCauley (DHM1@NS3.CC.LEHIGH.EDU)
>
>-- 
>*******************************************************************************
>*Dan McCauley       (Lair of Sam, Lisa, Spot, Spot II, and Victoria)
>*                              ...with carcasses of dead smelly vermin!
>*******************************************************************************

Well, now that I've seen 2 posts recommending he get 105 shifters, etc.
that did absolutely nothing to answer his question, I guess I'll answer it.

To run 600 STI with your 105 derailleurs, you need the 600 STI shifters, and
you need an 8-speed rear cassette hub and cassette.  The hub can be either
600 or 105.  Your 105 derailleurs are fine to run the new stuff.

I don't know if the 600 shifters are like the Dura-Ace in that you get brakes
with the shifters/brake levers, which would be a pretty Shimano-esque thing
to do, since they're just like your 105 brakes except a couple grams lighter
and a different color.

With the shifters, rear hub, rear cassette, and rear-wheel build, upgrading
isn't all that cheap...

Bill
From: casseres@apple.com (David Casseres)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: How to secure pump to frame?
Date: 22 Nov 92 04:54:08 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <Bxw0GK.G2z@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Terry
Thiel) wrote:
> 
> My brothers new Colango (The $1200 one with Dura-Ace STI) has no pump peg.
> How do people secure pumps to their road bikes so they don't rattle?  I
> assumed people use those velcro thingies but wanted other ides since it seems
> like they would rattle.

I have a pump peg but I don't like having the pump in the main triangle, so
on one of my bikes it's behind the seat tube, and on the other it's under
the seatstay.  Zefal HP-X pumps in both cases, appropriately sized.

To mount the pump behind the seat tube you have to have seatstays that come
together at the back of the seat tube, forming a pocket underneath.  The
handle of the pump goes in here.  The other end tucks into the angle
between the left chainstay, the seat tube, and the bottom bracket.  The
little gussets fit right in there.  (To do this trick you also have to have
long chainstays, so there's a little room between the wheel and the seat
tube.)

My other bike has seatstays that attach to the sides of the seat tube, so
there's a big gap between them and the end of the pump can't be held there.
 So I orient the quick-release lever parallel to the seatstay and use the
end of the lever for a pump peg.  The pump handle goes there and the other
end fits in the angle of the seatstay and the seat tube.  Again the little
gussets fit nicely -- good design, that.

With both of these methods the pump is quite secure and completely out of
the way, with no special hardware required.
 
--

David Casseres
Exclaimer: Wow!
From: tan@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (David Tan,Box 219 Baker Lab,54810,2720402)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Out of Control Front wheel
Date: 17 Nov 92 16:07:49 GMT
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Originator: tan@msc2.msc.cornell.edu

From article <alanf.721963497@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au>, by alanf@cs.monash.edu.au (Alan Grant Finlay):
> My question is, is there a speed above which all bikes are likely to develop
[stuff about causes of shimmy...]

> such resonances with no hands on the handlebars?
> 
I don't think so; at least, not until you get to unreasonable speeds.  Mine
is a bit squirrelly and difficult to ride no hands <12 mph, but gets more 
and more stable as the speed builds up (as you might expect from the
increased angular momentum.)  The fastest I've seen on my computer riding
no-hands was 38 mph (don't ask me what I was doing at the time) and it
was rock-solid.  I've taken it to >50 (with hands near brakes!) and it
felt even more stable.

A touring bike with touring wheels and tires should be even more stable at
speed.  Maybe you should have your frame alignment checked.

Dave
From: weird@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (john.t.erhardt)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Cannondale MTB's (was Cannondale Crit)
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:50:59 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Nov17.205648.6888@eng.umd.edu> gsurbeck@eng.umd.edu (Gregory D. Surbeck) writes:
>components during normal mtn. biking since February.  When he took it
>back to the C'dale shop he bought it from they told him that taking
>the bike off-road was excessive abuse and they would not be
>responsible!  I don't like that statement, which I have heard from
>many bike stores.
>He likes the frame, but he hates C'dale's component choices.
>
>

What the hell kind of shops are they?  Mountain biking on a mountain bike
is excessive?   That's like saying a road bike isn't for sprinting, 
or just riding fast.  What... do they think these bikes are just for hanging
on the wall to look pretty?  Hell, no, the best looking bike, IMHO, is a 
dirty one with a lot of miles on it.  I have come across some some really
bad bike shops who are also Cannondale dealers.  I would think that if 
Cannondale new about this shop they might not be too happy.  Or maybe
they think like this to; I hope not!
I remember somewhere Cannondale saying that they only let the best shops
be dealers for them.  It seems that maybe some shops have detiorated
since they became a dealer, or Cannondale is lying.

FYI, I have a Cannondale road bike.  I can't say it hasn't been without it's
problems, but I've been pretty happy with their component selection on this
bike.  For this size bike it should have come with wider handlebars (or maybe
it's my body that's out of proportion).  Also, the rims that came with it
are fine for general riding, but aren't holding up too well for training.
But then honestly, they can't make every bike perfect for racing, then 
there would only be two models:  the expensive one and the really expensive one.

John Erhardt
From: fleminpm@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Paul M Fleming)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Spoke lub defies laws of physics
Date: 18 Nov 1992 23:37:01 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Reply-To: fleminpm@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Paul M Fleming)
NNTP-Posting-Host: o233-14.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

In article <27652@oasys.dt.navy.mil> tdsmith@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Timothy  
Smith) writes:
> In rec.bicycles.tech, JONQC@CUNYVM.BITNET writes:
> >>> Around the mid 80's, DT spoke packaging suddenly began specifying
> >>> not to use petroleum based products on their spoke threads and
> >>> that's why I switched.
> 
> >It beats me why DT made that recommendation but I just figured that
> >since they made the spokes, they must know what they're talking about.
> >Does anybody else remember seeing this message...
> 
>     No, but I can guess why they put it on their packages. Petroleum
> based products are harmful to rubber and latex.  Perhaps they were  
trying
> to avoid legal/goodwill/credibility problems asociated with advocating/
> allowing/not-disallowing the use of petroleum products near tires and 
> tubes (esp. latex tubes).
> 
>     I can't imagine they were actually claiming that petroleum products
> damaged their spokes. Oils and greases are common preservatives for
> metal parts.
> 
> Tim Smith
	
	The main reason spoke manufactures warn about the oil is because  
of rubber products. When wheels are built the spoke threads are lubed to  
prevent corrosion. The problem arises when the lube leaks onto the tire  
and tube. Oil is VERY harmful to tubes in particularly light weight racing  
tubes.
		Paul
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: road bike gearing
Keywords: gears, ratios, road bikes
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:48:10 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.151645.17084@b15.ingr.com> dvr@doofus.b15.ingr.com writes:
>Howdy!
>
>I have 2 road bikes that I bought new when I lived in flatland country.
>Now that I live in northern Alabama, I've found that the gearing just
>does not offer me low enough gears so that I can make it up the long
>hills around here.  Both bikes have 6 cog freewheels and 2 chainrings.
>
>The Schwinn has a 52-40 chainring set and 28-14 freewheels with a
>Suntour Cyclone derailleur.
>
>The Raleigh has a 52-40 chainring set and 28-13 freewheels with a
>Shimano 600 derailleur.

Top put this into prospective: I have a 1972 Peugeot PX-10 with a
Campagnolo Super Record grouppo. The rings are 53-42 and the cog-set
is a 13-21 7-speed. On saturday I did our club's Moraga ride. This 
is about 30 miles with some 2500 feet of climbing and the steepest sections
are about 8% or so (not too far though). I wanted to try my flatlander
bike, but it turns out that my weight is down (well, Thanksgiving will
cure that :-() and my fitness is pretty good, so I had not the slightest
trouble. I even sprinted over one peak to beat a group of tourists to the
downhill so I wouldn't have to pass at speed.

In other words -- you have pretty low gearing now. Try getting in shape
instead of try mechanical advantage.
>
>What I'm looking for is a way to get more of a "low-end" in my
>gearing on both bikes (i.e. "granny" gears).  I've heard something
>about derailleur "carrying" capacity (??) but I'm not sure what
>it is for these 2 derailleurs.  Should I buy a smaller (fewer teeth)
>chainring for each bike, larger (more teeth) freewheel cog, or both?
>Will these derailleurs "handle" this range of gears???  Help!

If you must get lower the easiest method is a smaller chainring.
However, at 40 teeth, you probably can only go down a single tooth.
My Basso has a 39-24 low gear that I only use when I am really tired
or the hill is really steep. That is a 44 inch gear as compared
to your 39 inch gear. So you're starting 10% lower than my bailout
gear.

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: miolnir@stein.u.washington.edu (Scot Thorstad)
Subject: Re: Cannondale Delta V question
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:08:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.221828.13566@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> vvkmj@sven.lerc.nasa.gov (Keith Jackson) writes:
>A friend of mine won a fully suspended 1992 Cannondale Delta V frame as
>a door prize at a mountain bike race.  He wanted cash more than a
>mountain bike so he sold it to me at a great price.  I took it to my
>team bike shop (not a cannondale dealer) for them to order the parts to
>build it up.  The guys at the shop don't know what to do with the
>little pulley wheel just above where the brakes will go.
>
>He tried calling Cannondale, but they said since he is not a dealer
>they wouldn't help him. (His reply should have been - "With service
>like that, maybe that's why I'm not").  Anyway, before I call around
>and visit shops - I would like ANY info on how this beast goes
>together, especially the brakes.
>
>BTW - I am putting Shimano Deore XT stuff on the bike.
>--
The little pulley is a pulley for dales new brake system, supposedly
a lot stronger than regular cantilevers.  I can't remember exactly
how it works but instead of pulling straight toward the seatpost
like regular cants one cable is looped over the pulley and the cable
from the lever pulls directly on one brake and squeezes the cable
straight together along a brake pulley line.  It's strange and I really
can't begin to describe it here, take a look at one in a different 
shop.  I don't know if XT brakes will work on it or not.  
scot


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: adr5@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Alex D Rodriguez)
Subject: Re: Colnago double down tube bike.
Reply-To: adr5@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Alex D Rodriguez)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 15:58:41 GMT

In article <BxtF2w.1qE@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes:
>My brother just bought a new Colnago from a bike shop in Chicago.  It's one
>of those with the double down tube.  He got it for $1200 with Dura-Ace STI
>and the new SPD clipless pedals (Dura-Ace).  Anybody know anything about this
>bike?  Apparently the shop is desperate for cash, they've marked all their
>bikes way down.
>-Terry
>


Do you have a phone nuamber and address for this bike shop and do you 
know if they do mail order?