From: hm@cs.brown.edu (Harry Mamaysky)
Subject: Re: american opinion
Organization: Somewhere East or Somewhere West
Distribution: talk
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 15:27:22 GMT

In article <bill.725596124@bcserv>, bill@bcserv.wustl.edu (Eldridge (Bill)) writes:
|> >When was the last time you had the privilege of visiting Israel. It is
|> >most certainly a democratic Western country. It has all the features
|> >of democracy that we have in the U.S. Perhaps the fact that it is an
|> >all Jewish country bothers you? 
|> 
|> An extremely large population routinely denied suffrage, land ownership,
|> and subject to discriminatory curfews is one of the features of 
|> democracy here?  Perhaps thirty years ago this was somewhat still
|> true, but now it's very inaccurate.  And perhaps you should clue
|> yourself in that Israel is not an "all Jewish country."  Your
|> leanings are way out in front, aren't they?

Israel has something like 700,000 Arabs who are its citizens. They
enjoy all (most - they do not serve in the army and therefore do not
have the benefits associated with service. But they do not serve for
their own benefit. Some or most do not want to fight against their
fellow Arabs) of the privileges enjoyed by the Israeli Jews. I have
seen how they live - and they certainly would be among the top 5% of
well off Arabs in the world. 

The Palestinians, on the other hand, have never wanted to be Israeli
citizens. And those who have were either killed by their fellow
Palestinians (PLO?) for collaborating with Israel, or kept their
mouths shut and stayed alive. It is hardly fair to insist that Israel
denies citizenship to people who do not want to be its citizens.

By the way, the Arab representation in the Knesset is (percentage
wise) far more reflective of the demographics of the country than,
say, the black representation in the American Congress. In fact, the
Arab vote represents a major voice during all Israeli elections.

I do not see your claim as valid. Yes, the Palestinian problem must be
rectified - and soon. However, insisting that Israel give them Israeli
citizenship is probably the last thing the Palestinians really want.

|> Perhaps you should look at pictures from Iraq or Sarajevo, and then
|> give me a definition of "ravaged".  Israel sat tight, and now
|> expects to be paid very handsomely for it. (or did - there is a
|> question of whether having the loan guarantees now dooms the
|> peace process more than any other act).

Well, what is your point? Yes, Israel was very patient. But this is
exactly what the U.S. asked of Israel. Imagine if Israel had enterred
into the conflict. Would the coalition have retained its overwhelming
Arab support? I would say definitely not. And in the world of politics
today, what Israel did is considered an enormous favor. I think that
the vast majority of people in Western society would agree that Israel
deserves a substantial compensation for being essentially dragged into
a war by Hussein which had nothing at all to do with Israel. So,
should Israel expect no compensation for having to wait while its
cities were being attacked? Come on. Be reasonable.

As for the devestation in Iraq, it would seem that the Iraqi people
have only their leader to thank for that. Srajevo is an enormous
tragedy. I wish more was being done. Hopefully, soon it will be. But
what does this have to do with American public opinion of Israel.

|> William M. Eldridge			bill@bcserv.wustl.edu

Harry.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast