HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Summary: 6 ohm speakers with 8 ohm only receiver
From: gcdcjrg@state.systems.sa.gov.au
Date: 21 Jan 93 13:57:56 ACST
Organization: State Systems, South Australia

In article <11900019@hpmwnpd2.sr.hp.com>, allana@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Allan Armstro
> 
> 
> 
> P. S. -- This brings up an interesting question. Consider a speaker that
> has a very low impedance at the cabinet resonance (1 Ohm at 100 Hz, for
> example). A solid-state amplifier would provide the speaker with
> constant voltage. The lower impedance would mean that the amplifier
> would supply more power at the resonance (if you're not loud enough to
> be current-limited). Would this flatten the frequency response or make a
> big peak? If driven by a tube amplifier with an output transformer, the
> power match would suffer at resonance and less power would be delivered.
> I believe this would make for muddy bass, no? Would it be better to
> design an amplifier which monitored both output voltage and current and
> design feedback so it delivered constant power with frequency despite
> changes in the output load? Would it sound better?
> 
I cant offer a practical view here but it seems that most speakers today would
be designed and tested to have the flattest possible response with a constant
voltage style amp so anything else (assuming it could be easily produced) would
not produce the response expected.



> P. P. S. -- I may be out to lunch here. I'm just assuming that they're
> still designing tube amps with transformer-coupled outputs. Would it be
> practical to design an output transformerless tube amp? Since there are
> only one-channel devices available, it might be tricky, but the real
> problem would seem to be the very low transconductance of tubes. Is this
> it? If you can't get enough gm, can you make it up with a lot of loop
> gain?
> 
Output transformerless tube amps are possible and are being made, generally
with a pseudo complementary symatry or bridge output and a number of low
 impedance tubes in parallel for each arm.
 



> P. P. P. S -- That brings up another question. If you design a class A
> amplifier, whether it be tubes or transistors, how do you couple the
> output. I assume you're forced to transformer couple it. Does this mean
> that you get a lousy damping factor or are there practical ways to add
> enough feedback around the transformer?

Class A only means having current flowing through the output device(s) all the
time. A plain class B stage can go to pure class A by increasing the bias
current (and power supply and heat sinks) until it is greater than the peak
output current.

From: Matt.Ion@p106.f7040.n153.z1.ship.wimsey.bc.ca (Matt Ion)
Sender: UUCP@ship.wimsey.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Bose Speakers
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 10:11:48 -0800

 MJK>   WRT the "MGS" quote above, well, some Bose speakers have powerful,
 MJK> deep bass.  In my view, the Bose 10.2 series II speakers are their
 MJK> best speakers.  They have good midrange response, unlike the
 MJK> Acoustimass AM-5 and AM-3, good treble, and bass from hell, owing to
 MJK> the twin Acoustimass subwoofers, one in each cabinet.  I'll put 'em
 MJK> up against any other Bose speaker.

Their 802 professional reinfocement speakers are pretty darn good too. I've
used them in a lot of different situations on all manner of different gigs. 
They're nothing near a full-blown Turbosound system,but they're great for what
they are.

 MJK>   Now, people will argue that Bose is shit, etc, and that I should
 MJK> go out and spend zillions of dollars on Vandersteens or something.
 MJK> They will usually base this view on any number of bad things that've
 MJK> been said about Bose's flagship, the 901.  These bad things usually
 MJK> involve stupid things like how linear a 901 is in an anechoic
 MJK> chamber (this is ludicrous, of course, since the 901 design DEPENDS
 MJK> upon having a wall behind it and a floor below it), or how linear

Besides, how many people have an anechoic living room or listening room?

 MJK> the 901 drivers are by themselves, or how they 901's sound without
 MJK> its outboard processor (this is also silly, since the 901 is a
 MJK> SYSTEM, which is designed to be used only with its processor.  Why?
 MJK> Acoording to Prof. Bose, they were willing to trade some frequency
 MJK> response characteristics to give them more freedom in designing
 MJK> other areas of the speakers.  Those tradeoffs are then compensated
 MJK> for by the EQ).  I don't want to argue this issue here, since it's

Someone once mentioned the same thing ("deficient design that needs an
outboard EQ") but when you really think of it, it's no different than the
passive crossovers used in almost all speakers, or the active ones used in
multiamped systems.  Heck, the ideal speaker is a SINGLE driver with
10Hz-30kHz +/- 0.00001dB response, 50kW power handling, 140dB*1W/1m
sensitivity, etc, etc, etc, and costs $0.50.  Anything else is, IMO, a
"deficient design"; it's just a metter of degrees then.  Even a $60,000 pair
of supre-duper mondo Finkelsteens :) is a lousy design, limited by several
laws of physics.  Meaning that the whole bloody discussion is something of a
"non-issue".

 MJK> been flamed to death for years.  I don't even like the 901's a whole
 MJK> lot (see above).  I only put this paragraph in so that there'd be a
 MJK> tiny bit of balance, and so people would be aware that there are
 MJK> other speakers in the Bose line, besides the 901, and some of them
 MJK> are quite good.

I personally kinda like the 901s.  Always have.  But again, that's just me. 
I've always liked what I've heard from Bose.


Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: jessup@dot.cs.colorado.edu (Elizabeth Jessup)
Subject: cassette player/recorder
Summary: small, record cd's, etc.?, timers?
Organization: Universtiy of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 01:00:02 GMT


I'm trying to find a small sized cassette player/recorder, portable
or not, so that I can make and play tapes of CD's and records.  I
don't have room for a full sized component, but I haven't been able
to find anything small that will take the right inputs from my amp.
I'd appreciate recommendations of players and sources.

Also, is there such a thing as a cassette player that you can program
to record radio shows at certain times like a VCR?

Thanks,
Liz



Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: mjv8557@eafs000.ca.boeing.com (Mark J. Vandiver)
Subject: Re: Wanted: Old Nakamichi 600 cassette deck
Keywords: tape-deck cassette stereo audio
Organization: be41t
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 00:01:50 GMT

hughesl@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Larry Hughes) writes:



>Title says it - I am looking for a (preferably) working Nakamichi 600
>cassette deck.  The motor finally froze in mine, and Nak doesn't sell
>or offer replacements.  I intend on buying a *newer* deck, but I have
>the entire rack system of this series, and I'd at least like to keep
>it all together.  Nak also made a 700 (?) cassette deck with the same
>dimensions, and I would be interested in that too, but I don't exactly
>know the model number.  

>Okay, but it is still a nice looking dinosaur.

They don't make part for the 600s any more?!?!? SHIT! I have 2 600 IIs
and a 630, 2 620s and a rack as well. I have not used the decks in years
since they both need new heads. I quess I had better look into getting  
them fixed in sort order before they don'y have heads either! I also need to get
a 420 amp fixed. I got one of my 3 fixed about 5 years ago or so, and
was holding off on the other since I do not need it desperately. Better try that too!

You just ruined my hole year! I was holdin on to them figuring the 
collector market might pick up later, not that I really want to sell
them, but it would show if it was worth the money, effort, etc.
Let me know what you find out and I will do the same.

Mark Vandiver MJV8557

>_   /|                 larry e. hughes
>\`0_o'' Oop,           hughesl@atlantis.cs.orst.edu
> -( )=  Ack!           hughes@fsl.orst.edu
>   U                   CI$: 70012,2213
From: kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Lindstrom)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 20:14:20 GMT
Subject: Re: speaker types (design) question
Organization: Shredding the water of SF Bay, HP-OCD
Newsgroups: rec.audio

Thanks very much, oh audio experts.

Ricardo
pinch@cs.washington.edu			-- Just doodoo it
----------
Ignore all the words and.................  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                        -- just listen.

After you decide what you like, then ask "how is it done" and what
technology is used.  Otherwise, you'll get marketized!

Kirk out
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: bstdenis@mailbox.fwrdc.rtsg.mot.com (Brian St. Denis)
Subject: Re: Bose Bunk, was Re: Bose Speakers
Organization: Fort Worth Research and Development Center, Motorola, Inc.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:38:51 GMT

>
>If anyone cares, the industrial version of the 901's is the 801's.  Those are
>the ones usually used in night clubs and are typically firing onto the dance floor.
>

Sorry, that should be 802!!


-Brian

-- 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian St. Denis                       | "Will administer for food."
Computer/Network Administration       | Apollo:  just like real unix.
Fort Worth Research and Design Center | e-mail: bstdenis@fwrdc.rtsg.mot.com
Motorola Inc.                         | phone:               (817) 232-6129
From: besson@vill.edu (Morgan Besson)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: CD player through old amplifier sounds terrible
Date: 21 Jan 93 13:25:00 GMT
Organization: Villanova University

Today I plugged my Sony portable CD player into a vintage 1965 solid state
amplifier (Lafayette 125T) and it sounded awful.  This is not a terrible
amp, and I tested it with a tuner and it sounds fine.  I tried the CD
at various inputs, with different speakers, headphones, etc., but it
was always the same.  There is no brilliance to the sound.  It's like
an AM broadcast.

Is there any known problem with this setup?  Thanks in advance for replies.

Morgan Besson
Villanova University
Villanova, Pennsylvania USA
From: shetline@bbn.com (Kerry Shetline)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Why would CD carousel sound worse than single-play?
Date: 24 Jan 93 16:43:34 GMT
Followup-To: rec.audio
Organization: BBN
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <1993Jan23.122954.29893@microsoft.com>, davidl@microsoft.com
(David Long) wrote:
> However, I'm still interested in knowing if there are technical
> limitations to the carousel platter approach that degrade the 
> sound compared to a single-play drawer.  Are there?

I hate to be absolute about anything, but at close to the same probalistic
tolerances that I reserve for, oh, wondering whether my entire existence is
a hallucination, I would say... NO!

Even the people who think that CDs need to be clamped, weighted, and
stabilized so as to be vibration free within the limits the Heisenberg
Uncertainty Principle would probably admit to the *possibility* of a good
carousel. It would cost, however, more than $25,000 (DAC outboard and
extra, of course) and weigh enough to require special structural redesign
in most homes.

-Kerry
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: bstdenis@mailbox.fwrdc.rtsg.mot.com (Brian St. Denis)
Subject: Re: Bose Bunk, was Re: Bose Speakers
Organization: Fort Worth Research and Development Center, Motorola, Inc.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:35:53 GMT

In article <bill.727572363@sarge> bill@verdix.com (William Spencer) writes:
>DPierce@world.std.com (Richard D Pierce) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan17.053823.1378@news.columbia.edu> gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:
>
>Oh yeah, someone mentioned Bose being used in nightclubs, etc. Funny, the one 
>that I saw 901s in had them turned around with the 8 drivers facing into the 
>room.
>
>Bill s

If anyone cares, the industrial version of the 901's is the 801's.  Those are
the ones usually used in night clubs and are typically firing onto the dance floor.

I don't like Bose but they do have a couple of good qualities for using in the
club environment:
   o They don't have tweeters which are likely to be blown if the amps clip.
     Drunk DJ's turn the volume up slowly as the night goes on, past the "max" point.
     I know, I've done it.
   o They put out enough mid-bass (60Hz up) that drunk club-goers think they are
     hearing lots of bass.  And, most of the music played at clubs does NOT have much
     bass below that range.  This includes Rap.

-Brian

-- 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian St. Denis                       | "Will administer for food."
Computer/Network Administration       | Apollo:  just like real unix.
Fort Worth Research and Design Center | e-mail: bstdenis@fwrdc.rtsg.mot.com
Motorola Inc.                         | phone:               (817) 232-6129
From: wart@cco.caltech.edu (Michael L. Thomas)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Comments on analog music
Date: 22 Jan 1993 01:22:51 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

jj@alice.att.com (jj, still grouchy and out of sorts) writes:

>In article <1jmercINNg4g@transfer.stratus.com> rsud@sw.stratus.com (Rajiv Sud) writes:
>>In article <24668@alice.att.com>, jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon and all-around grouch) writes:

>>which sounds closer to the real thing. So, no, I don't like the sound of
>>distortion, I like that which sounds closer to real music and instruments.

See discussion about distrotion below...

>Fine.  You like live music.  We can both agree on that, even,
>I prefer live music, too.  Now, you claim that LP is "more accurate"
>because it sounds more like live music to you.  Well, there are only
>several problems with that. First, any stereo image is STRICTLY
>an illusion, and a remarkably poor one. Second, there's NO
>chance of reproducing the hall's soundfield.  Third, "distortion"
>is hard to quantify in a hall.  Is the reveration distortion? Yes.
>Is it desirable. Yes, usually.   

 [ Much talk about LP/CD distortion deleted ]

I have two points to bring up here, only one of them remotely serious...  :)

First of all, I have been following this analog vs. digital debate for
far too long.  It seems to me that everyone is arguing over which medium
results in better sound reproduction with less distortion.  Well, it
would appear that the only solution is to go out and spend $big and put 
in a music hall addition to your house/apartment/etc. and hire a live
orchestra to perform whenever and whatever you want.  Music reproduction
is inherantly bad.  Avoid it at all costs.  Especially avoid my stereo or
it could result in me being called a hypocrite.  :)

Secondly, I don't know what type of music everyone else out there is listening
to, but most of my music contains a lot of distortion inherantly.  For
example, Ministry just wouldn't be Ministry without the distorted vocals/
guitar/bass/etc.  In this case, the distorted instruments are the real
instruments.  I don't see how an incredible sound system is going to make
it sound much better than a mediocre system.  Hence, I have a mediocre
system.

My advice:  everybody should grow to love distortion and put in a live
orchestra in their homes.

--Wart

:-)
From: bp816@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stuart Krivis)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Audio Anthology Question
Date: 22 Jan 1993 21:16:58 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


I have been tempted to buy the Audio Anthology series from Audio
Amateur Publications, but I would like to know what they contain
before I plunk down that much money.

Unfortunately, my local libraries don't have them.

Have the Tables of Contents for these been published anywhere?

Thanks,

Stuart
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: pburke@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Peter Burke, MIC, 608-263-7744)
Subject: Re: Are Sony MDR-V6's worthwhile?
Organization:  University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center
Distribution:  usa
Date: 25 JAN 93 11:45:34    

In article <1993Jan25.141222.24089@cs.yale.edu>, prater@cs.yale.edu (Ethan Evan Prater) writes...

>I've seen a lot of commentary on the Sony MDR-V6 headphones. I'd like to
>get a set of decent headphones -- would these be a good value? Illinois
>Audio sells them for $68 -- is that a good price? Are there other
>headphones that are better for the same price?
> 
>Thanks for any help. I expect this is a FAQ -- sorry.
> 
>--Ethan

I bought my MDR-V6 headphones for $59 mailorder. they now seem to be 
discontinued in favor of some much bulkier looking set.  In spite of my 
intense dislike of most Sony consumer electronics (just returned my Sony 
STR-AV 1070 to the dealer I bouaght it from 10 months ago and bought an 
Onkyo - at least this unit doesn't turn itself on at night...).  The 
headphones are really comfortable, can be folded up and are pretty 
light.  The sound seems to be very good for the pricce I paid.  Only 
some $140 JVC 990 (don't recall the number that clearly anymore) sounded 
noticably better when I looked around.  If you can get the Sonys for 
about $60 they are worth the price.

Peter Burke                           | PBURKE@MACC.WISC.EDU 
Microcomputer Information Center      | PBURKE@Wiscmacc.BitNet
Madison Academic Computing Center     | 608-263-7744
1210 W. Dayton St., Madison, WI 53706 | 
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: tjwu@athena.mit.edu (Thomas J Wu)
Subject: Pro-logic amp/speaker recommendations wanted
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 05:08:06 GMT

I am attempting to build a decent A/V system from scratch.  I already
have a CD player and a VHS Hi-fi VCR, but my amp is currently a boom box.
I'm planning on spending under $800 for the receiver and $500 for the
speakers.

For the receiver, I'm interested in Dolby Pro-logic; extra DSP modes are
also nice.  The number of A/V inputs is important, since I'm considering
a second VCR, a tape deck and/or DCC/MD unit, or LD player, in addition
to what I have now.  I have narrowed down my selection to the Yamaha RX-V850
and the Onkyo TX-SV70PRO.  They seem to offer just about the same set of
features and carry about the same price.  Does anybody have any experience
or advice concerning either of these units?  Are there any other units
I should consider?

As for the speakers, I'm interested in the Paradigm 3se and 5se, as well
as their center-channel speakers.  Would these be a good match for my
receiver?  Thanks for the help!
--
Thomas Wu                                                  "Raise shields."
Internet:  tjwu@athena.mit.edu                             "What shields?"
From: duggan@cs.unc.edu (Adam Duggan)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: DAT, DCC and MD
Date: 28 Jan 1993 13:53:01 -0500
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
NNTP-Posting-Host: dukas.cs.unc.edu

>> Yeah, "you can record on MD and its size makes it more convenient for
>> portable and car use".  Want to bet that it's impossible to squeeze a
>> full 74 minutes, 16 bits/sample/channel, 44.1 kHz, onto a recordable
>> disk the size of an MD?  I wouldn't.  I'll bet they could do it within
>> another year.
>> But they won't, because they really don't want consumers to have a
>> mass-market- priced digital recording system that can make exact
>> copies of CDs.
>> I refuse to support Sony or Philips in these efforts *regardless* of
>> the technical merits of the systems, regardless of whether they're
>> "good enough", etc.

I have to agree completely here.  They have introduced MD/DCC now,
when they can excuse the compression algorithm b/c of technological
limitations, so that they can get the format(s) entrenched.  The end
result of this will be that this <required> compression (which won't
be required for long), will end up being their copy protection.  They
won't have to worry about people making unlimited digital copies,
because the compression algorithm will provide the degradation to
prevent it.  (Note that there is no way to circumvent the
compression/decompression algorithms, even on digital I/O).

I am not advocating being able to make unlimited digital copies of the
CD you buy in order to distribute it to your friends (and theirs, ad
nauseum).  It just really irritates me to know that the technology is
being compromised just because some people want to insure that they
continue to make their billions.

				-Adam Duggan
				 duggan@cs.unc.edu




Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: rsd@sei.cmu.edu (Richard S D'Ippolito)
Subject: Re: CD vs. LP again
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 10:15:22 EST


In article <C1HDns.63L@world.std.com>, Richard D Pierce writes:

|> Now in just the Roberdais, the Couperin and the Sweelink alone, I have
|> about 32 LP's, but all of 3 CDs. Now scoff if you will at my particular
|> musical tastes, but it point out the deep validity of your point. Much of
|> the esoteric repetoire is simply not available, and may never be available
|> on CDs. Period

Hey, that's nice stuff!

|> On the same token, the CD medium is also less than perfect. One of its
|> major problems, which is not a technological issue, is the fact that it
|> completely ignores the vast majority of the musical literature. If you're
|> into Metallica or Bon Jovi or the well-worn classical War Horses and have
|> no interest in pursuing the more esoteric examples of music, then CD's
|> will suit you fine. Unfortunately, this stuff all sounds like bad elevator
|> nusic to me at this point. Any interest in delving more deeply into music
|> than this, you quickly hit a brick wall.

You're too kind.  I'm surprised when the elevators still work with that stuff
running through the cables and air.

Rich
From: pchou@phakt.usc.edu (Patrick Chou)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Karaoke -- how does it work?
Date: 25 Jan 1993 09:00:31 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

I recently saw a "karaoke" machine and I was wondering if anyone knows
how this system works, or if there are any references which give the
standards.  On the machine that I saw, a VCR audio signal goes into a
box which has a switch that can turn on or off the vocal part, leaving
the instrumental part unaffected.  This switch says "MUX" on it.  What
kind of multiplex is this?


		Pat Chou
From: tom@afthree.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: A wire with loss
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:08:46 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

In article <19930126.050304.116@almaden.ibm.com> barron@rhqvm14.VNET.IBM.COM writes:
>Some have refered to an ideal amp as a wire with gain.
>
>Along with a previous appender, I would like a 'wire with loss'.
>
>This would go directly between my CD player and my amp for
>'reference listening'.
>
>Assume my amp and CD have input/output impedances of 50k.
>
>Can I simply use a few 1% resistors and construct a voltage divider?

Absolutely -- I have been getting along fine like this for months.
I do want a bit of gain and am gonna add an op-amp "follower" (probably
with a gain of 1.5 or 2.0) some day.  Actually I am using a potentiometer
(pair of `em) in a box that will someday be an active crossover.
I want the extra gain, cause things just don't get loud enough for my
taste -- even with things on full tilt.

>Anything else I should know?

Perhaps -- but give it a try, you don't have a thing to loose and I
can testify that it works.
--
	Tom Trebisky	ttrebisky@as.arizona.edu

This program posts news to thousands of machines throughout the entire
civilized world.  Your message will cost the net hundreds if not thousands of
Newsgroups: rec.audio