From: cree@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (Michael Cree)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Sexuality (was: Re: REFRESH)
Date: 22 Dec 92 07:48:13 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering, University of Canterbury, New Zealand

John Eldredge (jte@psi.com) wrote:

> Hate equals murder, and is condemned.  Lustful thoughts equals adultery,
> and is condemned.  The problem of masturbation is principally one of 
> thoughts.  If I amn married, and fantasize about my spouse, it is hard
> to condemn the act.  However, if my solitary solution involves thoughts
> of a person I am not married to, be they married or not, it is impossible 
> to sanction.

As in many other posts there is an implicit assumption here that has not been
stated clearly and, at least as far as I can tell, has not been established
to be true _always_.

And it is this: That masturbation _always_ involves lustfull sexual fantasies
                and thus can be treated exactly equivently to lust in _every_
                case.

And the result of those applying such an assumption is that wherever they see
the word lust (in the scriptures and elsewhere) they think they can insert
the word mastubation and it has exactly the same applicability.

However, I remain totally unconvinced. Why?

First of all, the scripture does not mention masturbation, but it does mention
quite clearly (at least in the minds of those who take an evangelical view of
scripture) that such things as homesexual acts and bestiality are wrong. I ask,
'Why does the bible go to the trouble to condemn such sexual acts which only
minority of people indulge in (~10% homesexuals, insignificant for bestiality)
and rather blantantly misses mention of a sexual act which the majority of
people, both male and female, indulge in?'

Note that the ancient world was quite aware of masturbation and it is
documented in secular works and thus there are words for it.

Now, the bible does indeed point its finger at lustfull thoughts, Jesus'
comments being the most quoted. And I would agree that lust does often lead
to masturbation. But, it's not the masturbation that is wrong, _it's_ _the_
_lust_ thats wrong. The sin was committed even before the masturbation. So
why cludge the issue as many people do?

I also would agree that we are fallen people thus it could be argued that one
should not masturbate because it places oneself to temptation to indulge
in sinfull sexual fantasies. We do know Jesus' words, cast out your eye
if it causes you to sin. I think one should also note the similarity here
to those caught up in drunkeness. Drinking alcohol is certainly permitted,
but if you are one of those people who are predisposed to drunkeness then it
is better not to drink at all. The same goes for mastubation, if it traps
you into lust it is better not to do it, but for those who have no problem
with lust, then there is no problem masturbating.

In my opinion those Christians who say masturbation is wrong and don't do it
are practising pharasiacal legalism and hanging heavy yokes around peoples
necks. That is deplorable.

> John

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Michael Cree                              Gold there is
cree@elec.canterbury.ac.nz                 and rubies in abundance;
                                          But lips that speak knowledge
                                           are a rare jewel. (Prov 20:15)
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