HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: javeaz@cajun
Subject: RE:  Camcorder skiing
Organization: Monsanto Company
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 11:47:32 GMT

In article <1hvlf9INNji1@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, bz754@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Derek J. Wojciech) writes:
> 
> I would like to take our new Sony TR-71 camcorder to our ski trips this year.
> Has anyone taken their camcorder to the slopes?  I would like to shoot some
> good action shots, so I would have to bring the camcorder up the lift and 
> down the slope.  Can anyone recommend some good ways to protect my camcorder
> while I am skiing and then stopping along the way to film?  Would a hard
> carrying case (vs soft case) be a wise buy?  I probably wouldn't film while it 
> was snowing, but if it was would their 'Sports Pak' water resistant enclosure
> be another good choice?  It's pretty expensive ($150).  Is there another
> way I could protect the camera from the elements (ie cheaper!)  Would there
> be any adverse affects on the camera itself due to the colder temperatures?
> I would appreciate any helpful advice!  Thanx!
>  
> 					Derek
>  
> 
> -- 
> 'Fire and Love, the two extremes |  wojciech@ossek.nrl.navy.mil /    ***.
> that we live between, Fire and   |-----------------------------/    **   '
> Love, there's more to life than  | Surfing or Snowboarding         ****
> the eye can see.'  Guardian      |      ridin' the Wave........._-*********


Been skiing with my Sony TR-7 camcorder for the last three years
with no problems.  Suggest some kind of "fanny pack" for lugging
it with you when skiing.  I use the Tamrac Model # 701 pack for
my Sony.  It fits inside really well, has a shoulder strap and a
belt for hanging it around your waist plus a small zippered 
compartment for stashing an extra battery or tape.  Yeah, I'm also
a lot more careful when I ski with mine but I've taken a couple of
tumbles with it in the pack and it's survived perfectly.  Battery
life is a little shorter, but no big problem.  Try using a shutter
speed of about 200 (you can set it manually) on bright days - it
really helps but backlight problems are still somewhat of a 
problem - maybe even 500 or 1000 on really bright days.  I've
never had a dew problem either.  I'm surprized at that but never
been a problem.  Try an easy slope and record while skiing.  Just
point the camera ahead (wide angle please) and ski on down.  A nice
touch is to take a shot straight down of your own ski tips while 
skiing and then pan up to normal horizontal.  I've seen the Sony
"weather pack" that your described - it's big, and wouldn't be as
easy to carry.  Good luck.  See you on the slopes!

Jerry Veazey
Monsanto
Luling, Louisiana

Replies to:  javeaz@cajun.monsanto.com

Newsgroups: rec.video
From: pdh@netcom.com (Phil Howard )
Subject: VCR PLUS code conflicts in TV Guide
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 05:00:30 GMT

I have noticed that in the Indianapolis edition of TV Guide, the VCR PLUS
codes are AMBIGUOUS for certain TV stations.  Specifically, channel 20 in
Indianapolis and channel 30 in Bloomington are PBS affiliates that have
different programming.  Yet the numbers are alike.

It's a bit complicated because they have set up something where you can
change the apparent channel from a couple other stations as well.  But
there are definitely times in which the ONLY way to program the VCR PLUS
is to reprogram the channel assignments, because 2 different programs on
2 different channels have the same code number.

What if you wanted to record the 7 PM show from channel 20 and the 9 PM
show from channel 30?  If the 2 shows at the same time on both channels
are the same time length, they get the same code.  You punch in the code
for the 7 PM show, and the code for the 9 PM show... but there is no way
this entry of data can determine if you want to record from 20 first and
30 next, or 30 first, or both from 20, or whatever.

I understand that it costs TV guide a certain amount of money per each
code computed in royalty paid to the VCR PLUS code owners.  Apparently
they are cutting costs by making the assumption that no one receives both
TV stations (which is bogus, since the stations are only 40 or 50 miles
apart).

I did call up the support numbers for VCR PLUS, and several people there
insisted that the controller WOULD KNOW WHICH CHANNEL I WANTED.  I finally
got hold of one person there who figured out there might be a problem since
I was able to give him code numbers, he decoded them there, and I asked him
to tell me back which codes to program for all the possible ways I might
record those 2 shows (20 and 20, 20 then 30, 30 then 20, or 30 and 30).
When he gave be the same 2 numbers for all 4 cases he realized it might not
work right.

No, I do NOT own a VCR PLUS.  It's such a wimpy thing.  I program my VCRs
the OLD FASHION way; I enter the start and stop time, the channel, and the
date if necessary.  Is that so hard?  Anyway I thought I would mention this
is I was responding to some VCR PLUS questions recently.
-- 
/************************************************************************\
| Phil Howard,  pdh@netcom.com,  KA9WGN    Spell protection?  "1(911)A1" |
| "It's not broken... it's just functionally challenged" --Phil and Pete |
\************************************************************************/
From: SteveSgt@cup.portal.com (Steven Eugene Sergeant)
Newsgroups: rec.video
Subject: Is there a rec.video FAQ?
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 18:55:19 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa

Is there a rec.video FAQ that I can FTP from somewhere?

Where would that be?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Steve Sergeant            Internet:  SteveSgt@torrent.sj.ca.us
3266 Tulipwood Ln.           Radio:  KC6ZKT [@N0ARY.#NOCAL.US.NA]
San Jose, CA  95132          GEnie:  STEVSERGEANT
(408) 945-0395                 FAX:  (408) 945-0543
Audio Engineering, Music, Macintosh, Bicycles, Backcountry, Japan
From: 0004861036@MCIMAIL.COM (James Millick)
Newsgroups: rec.video
Subject: VCR+ Codes
Date: 31 Dec 92 00:07:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Could someone please repost the name of the cryptology mag
that had the article on the guys that broke the VCR+ codes?
I'm doing this as a favor, thanks in advance!

Jim
From: ins_wayne@actew.oz.au
Newsgroups: rec.video
Subject: Re: AUST: MultiStd VCR with Digital Conversion Sharp VC-WD1 - Correctio
Date: 27 Dec 92 02:41:14 EST
Organization: ACT Electricity & Water

OOps!

In article <V1cBwB4w165w@jybox.jyu.fi>, otto@jybox.jyu.fi (Otto J. Makela) writes:
> ins_wayne@actew.oz.au (Wayne Myles) writes:

>>   Today, (in less than an hour!), I heard of the Sharp VC-WD1,
>>   called the local rep, found one, and decided that it is a very
>>   strong contender indeed!

> The major difference seems to be that there is no mention of a HiFi sound?
> A shame if it's monophonic only.

  Sorry if I ommitted that fact.  It is in fact HiFi.  The beastie
  is an 8-headed monster!  :-)

  I would not even look twice at a non-HiFi deck.

  Usual HiFi details, 20Hz-20Khz, >90dB dynamic range.  AC power
  110-240V, 50/60Hz.

  A friend in the industry suggests that the pricing may reflect
  an attempt by Sharp to re-enter this market as a major player,
  having lost ground to Panasonic (Matsushita).  He also suggests
  that a few Sharp VCRs have had somewhat of a clutch problem in old age,
  and thus a tendency to screw up tapes.  I'd be interested in
  hearing any such reports.

  The diagrams in the brochure are quite specific about being able
  to use the video out from this player to record from.  Contrast
  this to the pseudo-conversion from the lesser Panasonic players,
  which depends upon tolerances in TV circuitry to work at all.
  
  I went back and made an NTSC tape of a PAL broadcast under
  pretty appalling reception conditions - I think a finger in the
  ANT socket would have been better!

  I then played this back on decent equipment, and it reproduced
  the noise perfectly :-)  I toggled modes during the recording,
  to A/B the PAL and NTSC signals.  There was no significant loss
  that I could detect.  Horizontal resolution was the same for PAL
  and NTSC, but vertically the picture was actually improved by
  interpolating the colour snow!  :-)

  I'll work on doing a proper test next week.

  I might be a little naive, but I think I should expect to be
  able to test a device to my own satisfaction before giving up
  over $2k!

  I really wish that sales organisations would make it less of an
  outright battle to get enough information about an item to make
  an informed purchase decision.  Sigh.  What kind of mentality
  connects a $2k VCR to a tiny $300 TV, with a pair of loose rabbit-ear
  antennae?

-- 
Wayne Myles             Email: ins_wayne@actew.oz.au, wsm@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au
System Manager,	        Snail: GPO Box 366, Canberra ACT 2601, Australia.
ACT Electricity & Water	   Ph: +61-6-248-3143 (w)  Fax: +61-6-248-3439
Xref: sparky rec.video:15096 misc.consumers:21175
From: arnie@col.hp.com (Arnie Berger)
Newsgroups: rec.video,misc.consumers
Subject: Re: transferring film to video
Date: 24 Dec 1992 17:44:50 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: hplsduc.col.hp.com

smjeff@lerc05.lerc.nasa.gov (Jeff Miller) writes:
> I am interested in transferring several old home movies from film reels
> onto videotape.  Are there any "preferred" methods of doing this?  The 2
> ways I can think of to do this are :
> 1) Project the movie onto a screen and tape it with a video camera.  
> 2) Transfer the movie frame by frame with a video camera capable of taking
> single frames.  Since the film was shot at 24 fps and the video uses 60 fps
> I would need to take 2 video frames of the first film frame and then 3 video
> frames of the next film frame, and then 2,3,2,3,etc.
> 
> Are there any better ways of doing this?  Thanks.


     This brings up a general question. How are movies transferred to video?
It must be a pretty straight-forward process because they've been showing
films on TV for years, but TV has an effective frame rate of 30 per second
and I don't think that motion pictures are synched to that.

                                                            Arnie


                                         
-- 
Arnie Berger
arnie@col.hp.com
Telnet 719-590-5642
Newsgroups: rec.video
From: schuster@panix.com (Michael Schuster)
Subject: Re: ld dust question
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 01:31:51 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <BzoMpA.KL6@inews.Intel.COM> evissch@scdt.intel.com (Eise Visscher) writes:
>
>Is the 3030 a combi-player? If so, maybe one of the cd lens cleaner products would work?


NO!!!! NO!!!!! NO!!!!! NO!!!!! NO!!!!! NO!!!!!!!!!

NEVER NEVER N*E*V*E*R!! use a lens cleaning disc on a combi-player!
Besides that, don't do it!!!

The pickup is very different from the one in a CD player. It moves
in 3 axes while focusing and scanning. I've heard from repair people
who have serviced LD players whose laser pickups were RIPPED FROM THE
MOUNTING by these cleaning discs.


-- 
_______________________________Mike Schuster________________________________
NY Pub. Access UNIX/Internet: schuster@panix.com | 70346.1745@CompuServe.COM
The Portal (R) System: schuster@shell.portal.com | MCI Mail,GEnie: MSCHUSTER
Xref: sparky rec.video:15158 rec.photo:22671 rec.arts.books:23399
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.video,rec.photo,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Photo CD
Date: 28 Dec 92 23:48:27 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <92359.000218I18BC@CUNYVM.BITNET>, I18BC@CUNYVM.BITNET (CUNY/Spartacus) writes:
> In article <PD.92Dec20184108@horus.sics.se>, pd@sics.se (Per Danielsson) says:
# #This has been discussed here previously, I think. What is the life
# #expectancy of a CD? Remember, CDs haven't been around for more than
# #about 10 years. A print will last a very long time. Perhaps a hundred
# #years or more.
# #Digital (mostly magnetic) media seems to go out of fashion very fast.
# ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
# #Have you tried to read a 7-channel tape lately? A punched tape?
# ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
# #Can we be certain that somebody a hundred years from now can read a
# ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
# #PhotoCD?
# #A print can certainly be viewed a hundred years from now.
# #--
# #Per Danielsson                          pd@sics.se
# #Swedish Institute of Computer Science, PO Box 1263, S-164 28 KISTA, SWEDEN
#                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
# Sorry Per,
#       But you ought to know better than that being a computer person.
# If its digital, it can be transfered to many different digital mediums.
# Just like transfering an old text file from a 160k 5 1/4 floppy
# to a 2.88mb  3 1/2 floppy.   Or uploading my floppy file to 3380
# mainframe diskpack or digital tape.  etc etc etc...etc
# 
# The resolution argument I understand, but this?
# 
#      I18BC@CunyVM.Cuny.Edu    | Edward Galarza,          .  .  / o c  .   .

Per is right.  When I first learned to program computers, I used
seven track tape drives.  I have no idea where I would find one of
those today -- and it's only been 20 years since seven track tape
drives were used in a surprising number of places.  A hundred years
from now, the only seven track tape drives, and perhaps the only
nine track tape drives, will be in museums.  Whether they will be
useable is very debatable.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
C++ is to C, as lung cancer is to lung.
From: killeen@spcvxb.spc.edu (Jeff Killeen)
Newsgroups: rec.video
Subject: Re: hi8 vs ?
Date: 1 Jan 93 15:29:40 GMT
Organization: SPC Community Access System

In article <9212311829.AA15116@zimmer.csufresno.edu>, zane_clark@csufresno.edu writes:
> OK, I will show my ignorance by asking someone to explain the
> advantages of hi8 vs regular 8.  I have a Sony TR71, and I can't
> believe the picture quality could be any better on another camera. So
> is the HI8 strictly related to the sound quality?  

Here are the specifications on image elements of VHS, S-VHS, 8mm, and Hi8mm
formats... 

		VHS	S-VHS	8mm	Hi8mm
		------	------	------	------
CHROMINANCE	629kHz	629kHz	743kHz	743kHz
LUMINANCE	1.0MHz	1.6MHz	1.2MHz	2.0MHz

As you can see Hi8mm has more signal frequency deviation than 8mm. In theory
more signal frequency deviation means a better image. 


--
Jeff Killeen - DECUS U.S. Chapter NLC Chair | Email:killeen@eisner.decus.org

DECUS is for folks who are responsible for delivering computing technology.
The NLC is the national council for DECUS's Local User Groups - come join us!
Newsgroups: rec.video
From: tg@cs.toronto.edu (Tom Glinos)
Subject: Time for a new TV in the 19-23" range??
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Distribution: na
Date: 29 Dec 92 04:04:10 GMT

My venerable 12 year old 19" Magnavox finally bit the dust over the holidays.
It's time to buy a new monitor!

After educating myself a bit by reading this newsgroup and TPV
(A wonderfulllll magazine) it seems that in order to obtain
a "good" monitor I either have to:

(A) Go to the high-end consumer sets, pay lots of money, and pray, or
(B) Go to an industrial spec monitor, pay LOTS more money, and worry a bit or
(C) Pay OUTRAGEOUS sums of money and obtain a broadcast quality set.

The likely targets in the 19-23" range are probably the Sony KVM or PVM's.
Is there anybody else? Is there an online index of past TPV's for reference?

And yes, I will get a copy of AVS, and find a dealer who will work with me.
I'll report back in a month or so on how this experience goes.
-- 
=================
No regrets, ever!			| Tom Glinos @ U of Toronto Statistics
For down that path, lies madness	| tg@utstat.toronto.edu
From: jkung@acs.ucalgary.ca (Jimmy Kung)
Newsgroups: rec.video
Subject: Virtual Vision
Date: 29 Dec 1992 03:12:31 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

I was just reading the paper today, and there was an interesting
article on a company called Virtual Vision, which purports to
have a viewer put on some glasses, and simulate a "big screen
television".  Has anyone else heard any information on this?

I suppose this could be posted on another group, but the last
paragraph that caught my eye was the statement that "Sony Corp.
has previewed a product that would cover both eyes and allow
viewers to be totally absorbed".  (in contrast to VV, which
allows you see the "real world" as well)

I find this quite fascinating, I doubt the technology is advanced
enough today, but eventually with one of these goggles I imagine
you could simulate a massive picture with great detail, and when
connected with a laserdisc and a pro-logic system you could
create a real theatre atmosphere!

(the article also mentions VV will be at the CES, is anyone
going to be there?  makes me wish I could go there for that last
day open to the public!)

jkung@acs.ucalgary.ca      |  "It's better than bad,it's good!"
                           |             - Log(tm) by Blammo!
Newsgroups: rec.video,rec.photo,misc.forsale
From: laird@stable.ecn.purdue.edu (Kyler Laird)
Subject: Re: 4 Sale: Sony Still Video Camera $400
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: na
Date: 22 Dec 92 13:58:31 GMT

Oh, I don't want to be mean, but I do feel some responsibility to inform
others as I'd appreciate them informing me...

ychen@hubcap.clemson.edu (Eric Chen) writes:

>Sony still video camera MVC C1 w/MAP TI for sale:

>features:
>	1. f:2.8 15mm lens.

The C1 should have come with a detachable macro lense also.  (The macro
lense allowed focus from 1.5'.)

>	2. 50 pictures per floppy disc, rewriteable disc, store pictures
>		on floppy disc.

Don't start thinking "floppy disc" like the one your computer can read;
it's not at all compatible.

>	3. similar to Kodak photo CD, digital images
				      ^^^^^^^ BUZZ!!

The Sony technology is analog, not digital.  It's not much at all like
the Kodak system.

Resolution is similar to a cheap (motion) video camera:  300 lines
(record/play), 400 lines (playback only - from other cameras).  The
sensor is a 2/3" MOS with 280,000 pixels, sensitivity equivalent to
ISO 80.

The C1 doesn't have a built-in macro lense, nor is it able to record
audio along with video like the newer Mavica that I bought for $375.40
new on 12-11-91 (from Bergen County Camera) - and that included 10 disks!
(It was great for my wedding - the audio makes it worthwhile.)

>come with one disc and one rechargeable battery and one recharger and
>player (remote control). Additional battery and disc can be obtain from
>Sony Company.

>Sell for $400

Ouch!  An outdated product for more than it sells/sold for at retail.
I remember shops trying to unload their C1's on me last year.  I could
have gotten one for about $250, I think.  (But I _really_ wanted the
audio capability.)

BTW, I'd pay $50 for it - I'd like to toy with the innards.

>Eric (803)6548817
>ychen@hubcap.clemson.edu

--kyler
Newsgroups: rec.video
From: bbrett@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Betsy Brett)
Subject: How's RCA VCRs???
Summary: How id RCA?
Keywords: How is RCA for VCR brand?
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 03:59:00 GMT


I am thinking of buying a used VCR (as a second VCR) and I am thinking
about an RCA.  It is just a standard mono 2-head, but I was wondering if
anyone had anything to say about the brand itself and its reliability???
I would appreciate prompt responses!!!  Tahnks.

-Betsy Brett
bbrett@morgan.ucs.mun.ca

Newsgroups: rec.video
From: jimr@mothra.rose.hp.com (Jim Ranlett)
Subject: Re: Pioneer CLD-D701 (my experiences)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:47:09 GMT
Organization: HP - Systems Technology Division
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

Now that I have the CLV effects, I find that I use them very frequently.
The scan is smooth - no jumping around.  I find the still field useful,
since I like to look at cartoon animation sequences, stunts, special fx,
etc.  Many titles I have are not available in CAV, so for me the CLV
effects are nice to have.  Other's usage may vary.


Newsgroups: rec.video
From: hm002b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Primus Sucks!)
Subject: Help Questions about SONY 20" KV-20EXR20
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 05:59:21 GMT

In arti:

I just bought a Sony KV-20EXR20 TV set and I have some major questions.
While I love the picture the set seems to be make a very annyoning VERY high
pitch sound that is just almost unbearable. Is it me? Have other people had
similar experiences with their Sony 20EXR20's? I already exchanged the set
once and the problem is still there! Anyways does anyone know when Sony will
be replacing the KV-20EXR20, is it an old model due for a rehaul? If not
does anyone know of any TV set that will give me similar picture quality, in
a 20" TV? I have looked at many other brands and nothing comes close to the
Sony, any other reccomendations? Help!
Thanks 
Hasit
From: mfcdbarn@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Darryl K. Barnes)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Electric RC (was RE:converting a Guillows P-38 to Electric RC)
Keywords: Electric RC (was RE: Guillows P-38)
Date: 31 Dec 92 22:09:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Hello

A while back I posted some mail to this group regarding turning a Guillows
P-38 lightning into an electric Radio Controlled model.  Most if not
all of the responses I received expressed the general idea that it was 
impossible.  The idea turned up again in a conversation I had with my local
hobby dealer.  He noticed that there are a lot of RC planes available today
with simple electric drives from Cox that I may want to consider as power
sources for my conversion.  Now I know that some of you probably think
I missing a few but I still want to built that P-38.  However, if anyone
knows of a alternative that still would be a twin engine project and still
remain around the same wing span as that Guillows kit, please don't
keep it to yourself.

Darryl K. Barnes
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Micro servos and Tower Hobbies address...
From: kaiser@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (Chris Kaiser)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 02:44:25 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering, University of Canterbury, New Zealand


I'm currently building a model that requires a micro servo in each
V-tail surface. The smallest available here is the Futaba 143 (same
as the 133 I think) which is about 13mm thick. However this is a bit
too thick, so could anyone tell me if there are any smaller servos
out there. I think Airtronics make a small one, I've also heard of
one called the "Union 12gm", and also a super micro Kyosho one.
Does anyone have any info on these servos?

The second problem is obtaining them. I've been told Tower is a
good place to try, so could someone please email me their address
so I can order a catalog.

Thanks for any replies.

Chris Kaiser

Postgrad, Elec. Eng. Dept.
University of Canterbury
Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND




Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: svoboda@rtsg.mot.com (David Svoboda)
Subject: Re: Flight Simulators & ducted fans
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 16:36:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.101955.14817@klaava.Helsinki.FI> linkosal@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Tapio Linkosalo) writes:
|
|Does Midwest still make DF-unit for .049? At what price? Or
|does someone have drawings for such unit?

No, they no longer make the unit.  The RK049 fan unit, of which
I have an original, was designed by Bob Kress (as was the Midwest
A12 Skyhawk kit which houses it).  Bob Kress now run his own
company called Kress Jets, Incorporated,

	Kress Jets, Inc.
	4308 Ulster Landing Rd
	Saugerties, NY 12477

	+1 914-336-8149

Kress Jets no longer has the RK049 unit, but I have spoken
with Bob Kress, and he assures me that their RK709 unit, for
.09 motors, has similar proportions, and will fit in the 
same models.

Kress also sells 20, 40, and 60 sized fans, and also some
fighter kits for the units.  A catalog is $3US.

		Dave Svoboda, Palatine, IL
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc