From: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: New topic of the week - Is ECS dead?
Date: 22 Nov 92 04:24:31 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

kontos@clipper.ingr.com (Thorne Kontos) writes:


>     While I ponder where I am going to come up with the cash for a new
>computer, I ask myself repeated if I should sink another dime into
>my A2000. What with the prices of the A3000 dropping like a 
>proverbial rock, the only real upgrade for my A2000 is a video toaster
>or DCTV. 

the A2000 is still very expandible.  (You may add an 040 and 24bit graphics
card *now* if you have the money).  The only thing which the 2000 really
lacks is Zorro 3 bus.  However, most cards aren't built for Z3 anyways...

>     With the introduction of the AGA chipset (Available only for the
>A4000, and the A1200), it seems to me that anything that is pre-AGA
>will pretty much end up the way of my original Apple ][+. I'll be lucky
>to get $1000 for my A2000 in a year. Not that I lament the fact that
>technology marches on, (It would be $500 more than I got for the Apple)
>its just that I now question who will continue to develop for anything
>not AGA-based. Certainly not the top developers whose packages are
>considered a must for productivity.

every computer's price drop... ask Apple users, ask Clone users..

my friends spent $1600 (ed. discount) on a Mac SE (w/ 2MB of RAM and 20MB
of harddisk) two years ago.  Now?  they would be lucky if they can sell it for
~$500.

Clones?  don't even bother talking about them... :)

>    One could draw the analogy that Commodore is pulling off one of the
>best scams to hit the industry in a long time. Instead of a software
>upgrade (regardless of system - most are overpriced, yes, even WB2.1),
>C= is basically asking its 4 million+ user base to upgrade their hardware
>system. My real question here is, just how many will open their mouths
>and swallow the bait?

I disagree.  I think C= (yes, believe it or not) cares about its customers.
Or else they wouldn't even bother to release WB v2.1 for 2.04 users.
Just wait until RTG comes out, OK?

>    Consider the following:

>A4000 - Pricey compared to a clone...
>A4000 - IDE, not SCSI...be prepared to sell off your old peripherals
>        until C= comes out with the SCSI adapter card (Scratch one
>        expansion slot)
>A4000 - No sound improvement (Scratch one expansion slot)
>      

You really need to understand something:
1) Commodore's products (namely, the Amigas) require more money for 
   development.  (How many clone companies design and manufacture their 
   own chips? their own buses?)
2) The 040 costs several times more than a 486.

the price and the specs of the Amiga 4000 IMHO is very good and cost-effective.
Of course, if Commodore can sell it cheaper, I would be very happy...  however,
I can't really blame Commodore.

>Other future problems...No C++ (The industry leaders rant and rave about
>object oriented programming, but fail to realize that writing software
>is still a creative process.)

There are currently *three* C++ available for the amiga.
1) Comeal (sp?) C++: a template for SAS/C.
2) gcc
3) (written by a German company... I forgot the name...)    

>No hardware manual for the AGA chipset. This is still very upsetting to me
>when one takes into account that most Amiga users are a slight cut above
>the clone users and bought the Amiga for its ability to hit the hardware.
>It was the demos that first made people buy the A500 at a time when most
>clones were still in their technological diapers. I will eventually
>buy an A4000, but maybe I'll hold out for an A5000 (or whatever else they
>have dreamed up in a few years.) 

hardware specs?  If Commodore were to publish the hardware spec for the
AGA chipset, granted, a lot of people will do a lot more hardware-banging.
When it is time for Commodore to improve the AGA chipset, it would have
to spend much more time ensuring the new chipset to be 100%
compatible (even down to hardware/microcode level).  Would you like to wait
5 years for Commodore to come up with a better chipset?  and do remember,
the space on a chip is limited... there's only so much you can put in a chip.

Also, I can tell you right now, some people will disassemble graphics.lib and
figure out how AGA works.  Also... a lot of Euro-Coders have used some
hardware-banging methods which aren't even documented in the ECS specs... so...
 
>So where does this leave the non-AGA machines? I'll make a small prediction
>and say they will rapidly become extinct...(Except for toaster-based
>system whose life-expectancy will last only until Newtek comes out with
>an AGA-based toaster...

My friend, how could you ignore the Amiga 600?  Why do you think Commodore
bother to manufacture it?? It is the _home computer designed for the 90s_.  
And Guess what? it uses ECS!!!  If Commodore manages to sell tons of them,
expect to see a lot more ECS programs coming...

(I am positive that the 600 will outsell the 4000 and the 1200).

>                                                  T. K. Kontos

Am I making any sense?

Yours Sincerely,
Kelvin
e-mail: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy