HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jocallag@vyasa.helios.nd.edu (john ocallaghan)
Subject: Re: Steve Barr and Newman
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:15:42 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.171019.18643@news.nd.edu> news@news.nd.edu (USENET News System) writes:
>This article was probably generated by a buggy news reader.
For some reason, my original posting seems to have failed to come through.

So I'll write it again.

I just wanted to publicly thank Steve Barr for suggesting the reading of 
Newman's "Letter to the Duke of Norfolk."  Turns out that Newman is even
more of an obedient papist than I thought, and perhaps even more than I am.;-)
Seriously though, I would just like to echo Steve's recommendation.  Newman's
clarity and precision on obedience and faith is asstounding, especially when
contrasted with the "Expostulation" of William Gladstone that prompted Newman
to write the "Letter" to the Duke.
Thanks again Steve.
Peace and Happy Advent.
John


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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Fri, 1 Jan 1993 05:40:18 -0500
From:         mayo@CS.UTK.EDU
Subject:      Bread, One Body", Jan 4

                    Monday, January 4, 1993
                      Elizabeth Ann Seton

I John 3:22-4:6            Psalm 2              Matthew 4:12-17, 23-25

                     THE YEAR OF REPENTANCE

"A people living in darkness has seen a great light." --Matthew 4:16

Jesus begins this new year as He begins almost everything else:  He proclaims:
"Repent!  The kingdom of God is at hand!" (Mt 4:17, our translation.)  It's
difficult for us to understand Jesus' preoccupation with repentance unless we
put ourselves in His place, that is, on the cross.  Jesus died on Calvary to
take away our sins.  He greatly desires that we repent and accept this supreme
act of love.  Therefore, on the first evening of His resurrection, He
commissioned His apostles to forgive sins in His name (Jn 20:23).  Before His
Ascension, he sent out the apostles and all of us to preach repentance to all
the nations (Lk 24:47).  At Pentecost, He and the Father even sent God the
Spirit, the third Person of the Trinity.  The Spirit convicts us of our sins
and leads us to repent (Jn 16:8).

Begin the year right.  Apply to your sins the blood Jesus shed on Calvary.
Repent, celebrate the Sacrament of Reconciliation, rejoice!  There's great
joy in Heaven over one sinner who repents (Lk 15:7).

Prayer:  Father, may this be the year of repentance.

Promise: "There is One greater in you than there is in the world." --I Jn 4:4

Praise:  Elizabeth Ann Seton turned to Jesus after her husband's death and
         began to see God's plan for the rest of her life.

-----
From "One Bread, One Body", reproduced with permission.
 Nihil Obstat: Rev. Edward J. Gratsch
 Imprimatur:  +Most Rev. James H. Garland, V.G.
               Archdiocese of Cincinnati, August 17, 1992.
From: stevek@cco.caltech.edu (Steven P. Krekeler)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: R-movies in parochial school?
Date: 31 Dec 1992 22:01:54 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: alumni.caltech.edu

kyrsten@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Kyrsten Swazey) writes:

>BTW, was this the new version of The Lord of the Flies, or the older,
>black-and-white version?

>kyrsten@eos.arc.nasa.gov 

It was the "new" version, and not very good, I might add.

-- 
- stevek@alumni.caltech.edu
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Apparently-To: catholic@american.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Mon, 28 Dec 1992 05:00:13 PST
From:         "John R. Covert 28-Dec-1992 0725" <covert@COVERT.ENET.DEC.COM>
Subject:      Re: A question

Merry Christmas, Cera!

The true meaning of Christmas is what is happening to you now -- for
Christmas is the commemoration of Christ coming into the world and
into our lives.  We pray you choose to follow Him, and don't turn back!

The schedule for adult education will vary from parish to parish, but
you may have chosen a very good time to start -- I would hope that a
parish near you would have a course of adult instruction which would
lead up to the traditional and most meaningful date for adult baptisms:
Easter Even, during the Easter Vigil service; in 1993 this will be
Saturday, April 10th.

During your period of instruction, you would attend mass and be welcomed
into the life of the community, but each time you go to mass you would make
a spiritual communion rather than receiving the Body and Blood.  (See below.)
Like the catechumens in the early Church, you would look forward to Easter
in a special way, for in one of the most beautiful liturgies of the year,
new members are baptized and all present renew their own baptismal vows.

  Through baptism, we participate in the Lord's resurrection and are
  "children of the light."  "Christ is the new lamb who took away the
  sins of the world.  For us his death brings ransom from death, his
  rising brings new life in him" (Easter Preface).  "Lord God, you
  have brightened this night with the radiance of the risen Christ.
  Renew us in mind and body" (Opening Prayer of the Easter Vigil Mass).

/john

Example of an act of spiritual communion, to be said silently while others
go forward to receive the Body and Blood:

        I worship thee, Lord Jesus,
        And kneeling unto thee,
        As thou didst come to Mary,
        I pray thee come to me.

O most loving Jesus, O most blessed Saviour, come to me, I beseech thee,
and unite me to thyself.  Though I cannot now receive thee sacramentally,
yet I believe that thou art able, even when received by faith and desire
only, to heal, enrich, and sanctify me.  Come thou spiritually into my
heart.  I desire to unite myself to thee, with all the affections of my
soul.  Possess me wholly; let the consuming fire of thy love absorb me,
and thy presence abide so intimately in me, that it will be no longer I
that live, but thou who livest in me.  Amen.
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Organization: Argus Consulting, Tucson, AZ
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.4 2/2/92)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 13:42:18 -0700
From:         "Gordon C. Zaft" <zaft@CARITAS.COTDAZR.ORG>
Subject:      Re: German decent [sic]

On Dec 21, 10:26pm, Steve Creps wrote:
} Subject: Re: Moral Activity (was Re: Asylum)
} In article <921221143950.20211bd9@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM> URSIC@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM
} writes:
} >From:         Steve Creps <creps@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
} >>    Jawohl, ve musst veed out ze inferiors for ze goot of ze State!
} >
} >This one, however, is actually an insult to anyone of German decent:-(
}
}    Well, I'm a decent German, and I wasn't insulted 8-).
}
} --Steve Gehringer-Klein-Hauersperger-Speck-...-Krebs
}-- End of excerpt from Steve Creps

I, too, am a decent German, and I found it amusing. (Shouldn't it
be 'muszt', though? :-))

Gordon, whose paternal grandparents were both born somewhere in Bavaria.



--
* Gordon Zaft     Argus Consulting  4500 E. Sunrise #N-6, Tucson, AZ 85718
* zaft@caritas.cotdazr.org | noao.edu!coyote!caritas!zaft
                 Semper fidelis Christi et Vicarii sui.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Organization: Argus Consulting, Tucson, AZ
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.4 2/2/92)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:09:14 -0700
From:         "Gordon C. Zaft" <zaft@CARITAS.COTDAZR.ORG>
Subject:      Re: OR

On Dec 21,  4:51pm, "Edward J. Branley" wrote:
} Subject: Re: Operation Rescue
} Well, you can always build a kill file.  I stand by my statement.  Randall
} Terry and Operation Rescue are pursuing a criminal path to stop what they feel
} to be a crime.  This is a case where two wrongs do not make a right.
}-- End of excerpt from "Edward J. Branley"

        Out of curiosity, would you say the same about MLK?  After all,
he did things that were illegal, did he not?  He spent time in jail.
Yet he did what he did out of a conviction that the laws were
unjust.


--
* Gordon Zaft     Argus Consulting  4500 E. Sunrise #N-6, Tucson, AZ 85718
* zaft@caritas.cotdazr.org | noao.edu!coyote!caritas!zaft
                 Semper fidelis Christi et Vicarii sui.
From: elendil@seashell.mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: Operation Rescue
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 09:10:03 CST
Organization: Seashell Software

Jim McIntosh <JIM@AMERICAN.EDU> writes:

[rest of an excellent article deleted...]

> Nonviolent demonstrations remain a very powerful tool, because they show
> the strength and commitment of people willing to suffer injury and even
> death for their cause, and also because they highlight the savagery and
> brutality of the people on the other side.

Well said!  This clearly illustrates OR's current dilemma.  When it was OR vs.
the police, the imagery was clear.  Police officers roughly handling people on
their knees praying the rosary.  Now that there is active clinic defense,
however, OR finds itself in the position of aggressor, and the imagery is
reversed.

>
> Finally, why do I write today, on Christmas, about things like this? The
> Church is clear with her message. The day after Christmas we celebrate
> the feast of St. Stephen, the first martyr. Two days from now we will
> remember the slaughter of the Holy Innocents. It can be painful to be a
> Christian, and we, through our faith, are called to be Christians. My
> favorite Christmas song is "Go Tell It On the Moutains." Christmas should
> inspire us to again get out there and start again in our task of building
> the Kingdom.
>
> Hope you all had a great one! May the peace and message of Christmas be
> with us the rest of our lives.
>
> Jim McIntosh, SFO (jim@american.edu)
> The American University
> Washington DC 20016-8019 USA

We did!  Thanks for the kind thoughts.


|Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us|
|Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087|
From: elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Childermas
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 12:42:19 CST
Organization: Minas Tirith BBS (Public Access Usenet for New Orleans)

On this Childermas, the Feast of the Holy Innocents, I'd like to ask that
everyone take some time and remember those innocent children who are already
born that will join the Lord in a short time because of hunger, disease, abuse,
drugs, whatever.

So many rosaries have been said for the unborn that I feel like we all need a
little reminder of those children who don't live much past that event.  We have
so many children living in poverty, even in this country, and nobody chains
themselves to fences to prevent their deaths.  I guess working to improve the
lives of those children who are born in poor conditions isn't as dramatic as
working to stop abortion.  In the long run, however, it really doesn't matter
if the child dies in the womb or in the hospital within a year after birth.

And while you're saying that prayer, say one for the parents of these children.
Say one for the mom of the 2 year old killed by stray gunfire in the project,
or for the parents of the preemie who didn't make it.  Or for the hungry mom
and dad who haven't eaten so their kids can.  These are all people who made the
'right choice,' and are sacrificing mightily because of that choice.  Remember
them in your actions as well, please.

BTW, thanks to Fr. John for that lovely sonnet...




|Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us|
|Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087|
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:12:53 -0500
From:         mayo@CS.UTK.EDU
Subject:      "One Bread, One Body", Dec. 24

                    Thursday, December 24, 1992

II Samuel 7:1-5, 8-11, 16    Psalm 89           Luke 1:67-79

                     THE TIME OF FULFILLMENT

"Zechariah his father, filled with the holy Spirit, uttered this prophecy."
 --Luke 1:67

On this Christmas Eve, we stand at the threshold of the fulfillment of
amazing prophecies.  We may have been waiting for months or years for this,
and this Christmas season will be the awaited time.  Most of these prophetic
promises of God may seem no closer to being fulfilled now than they have been
for years.  Some of these revelations you can hardly remember.  It's been so
long since you first heard them.  But now you are on the threshold, although
you know this only by faith, not by sight (II Cor 5:7).

Today, in these last few hours before the Christmas season begins, pray, fast,
repent, read the Bible, and be quiet.  Choose the better part (Lk 10:42).
Don't be so busy about the details of hospitality (Lk 10:40).  Sit at Jesus'
feet and listen to His words (Lk 10:39).  Prepare the way of the Lord
(Is 40:3).  He "will surely come."  His prophetic revelation "will not be
late" (see Hab 2:3). "We possess the prophetic message as something altogether
reliable.  Keep your attention closely fixed on it, as you would on a lamp
shining in a dark place until the first streaks of dawn appear and the morning
star rises in your hearts" (II Pt 1:19).


Prayer:  Father, rekindle my faith that You will keep the promises which have
         been unfulfilled for years.

Promise: "Your house and your kingdom shall endure forever." - Sm 7:16

Praise:  Kim repented of aborting two children.  Jesus forgave, saved, and
         healed her.
-----
From "One Bread, One Body", reproduced with permission.
Nihil Obstat: Rev. Edward J. Gratsch
Imprimatur:  +Most Rev. James H. Garland, V.G.
              Archdiocese of Cincinnati, August 17, 1992.
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Apparently-To: catholic@american.edu, esler@apollo.hp.com
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 10:54:59 PST
From:         "John R. Covert 21-Dec-1992 1355" <covert@COVERT.ENET.DEC.COM>
Subject:      RE: Marrying a divorcee

>I have some questions about canon law as it applies to the situation
>of a Catholic who wishes to marry a divorcee.

It is my (possbily incorrect) assumption that in all cases, a declaration
of nullity must be obtained, declaring that no sacramental union was ever
properly established.  Each diocese has a commission which handles such
requests; each such commission has its own procedures.

/john
From: elendil@seashell.mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: Operation Rescue
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 09:19:11 CST
Organization: Seashell Software

psyrobtw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss) writes:

> In article <kom6VB2w165w@seashell.mintir.new-orleans.la.us>, elendil@seashell
>
> >Well, you can always build a kill file.  I stand by my statement.  Randall
> >Terry and Operation Rescue are pursuing a criminal path to stop what they fe
> >to be a crime.  This is a case where two wrongs do not make a right.
>
> Due process according to Ed Branley:
>
> You say that Terry is a criminal.
> You say that RICO should be used against him.
> You say that Terry is a racketeer.
> You say that Terry is no better than the boss of an organized crime
> family.
>
> All of this is unproven slander and libel. The fact that you stand by
> it is moot. The fact that you provide more slander for the rumor mill
> is evident. I will take what you further have to say with more than
> a grain...
>
>
> =============================
> Robert Weiss
> psyrobtw@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu

Unproven?  Hardly.  The man has been arrested for criminal acts in more than
one state.  He is the founder and leader of a group that promotes those
criminal acts on an interstate basis.  One of that group's stated purposes is
to close down  *by whatever means* businesses that are, for the moment,
legitimate and legal.

Those statements are neither libelous nor slanderous.  I'm quite sure that you
and Mr. Terry don't agree with my interpretation of the facts, but that *does
not alter the facts*.

If you want to disagree with me, that's fine.  Calling me a slanderer is not
disagreement, but a wanton, unjustified ad hominem attack.  You sir, do
yourself and the pro-life cause no good by posting articles as patently absurd
as these here.  Now, if you want to discuss the merits of Operation Rescue and
its tactics, I'm willing.  If you don't, that's fine too.

But by all means, you might want to patch up the holes in your glass house
before you start throwing more stones.  I'm sure it's cold in Buffalo :-).




|Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us|
|Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087|
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Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 15:27:04 MST
From:         Brent Winiger <ABDWINIG@IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU>
              21 Dec 1992 14:14:40 -0800 from <weitzel@CIRRUS.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>

On Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:14:40 -0800 John Weitzel said:
>
>My main concern, at this point, deals with the quality of Catholic
>Secondary Education.  There are many studies which show that academically
>the Catholic Educational system is far superior to that of the American
>Public Educational Systems.

Superior academically, morally, spiritually, frugally, etc.ally,....


>but with basic Catholic Doctrine.  In local Catholic high schools, graduates
>have virtually no idea what is meant by  such concepts as trinity,
>transubstantiation, salvation, or could not list 1/2 of the books of the
>New Testament, let alone the Old Testament.  These individuals are the ones
>I see now attending Evangelical Churches.  I have many close friends who are
>Evangelical brethren, but they have a coherent understanding of the Bible,
>salvation, and doctrine.  My falling away Catholic friends, as well as
>friends who are practicing, have little idea about the depth of history,
>coherence, and basic doctrine of the Catholic Church.

      I see exactly the same thing in this area John, and it is really a pity.
I do see a few positive signs, however.  We recently did a survey of the
parents who send their kids to our Parish's Catholic Grade School.  They were
overwhelmingly happy with the quality of general education at the school.
They were not happy with the depth of religious education, however.  As a
result, more religion is being worked into the curriculum.
      I see the solution to this problem as being similar to most problems in
education, both public and private.  Parents need to get involved, both in and
out of the classroom.  Additionally, the parents need to work at improving
their own spiritual lives to set an example for their children.  The families
need to put God first in their lives, and learn Catholic Doctrine and history.
The parents need to be sure their kids can defend and be secure in their faith
as they become more and more independent, and it sure helps if the school can
aid the parents in this goal.  Unfortunately, I doubt that many of the parents
really understand their Faith themselves.  The kids are the object of a real
battle for their convictions (not to mention their souls) out there.  It is
imperative that the parents win that battle.  For that reason I believe adult
religious education is as important as religious education for the children.

Merry Christmas (Happy Winter Holiday if you live in some school districts!)
Brent
From: fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: That unnamed subject
Date: 23 Dec 92 19:22:54 GMT
Organization: CompuData Inc.

URSIC@ASTRO.CS.HH.AB.COM writes:

>school is superior to every "public" school? We've had this discussion
>before and I was under the impression that most of us thought that
>parental motivation and involvement were the key ingredients to determining
>the success of any particular student in any particular school system.

It's a major part but - and this is a big BUT - the other part is expectation 
and respect for the individual. A moral code that somehow seeps out in 
parochial school permits each child to become an individual who is taught 
value and respect etc.

This concept is especially valuable in the innercity schools where value 
systems have gone upside down.

As an example: the rand corporation gave scholarships to 350 disadvantaged 
students from NY's least achieving schools. The criteria was that these 
students would never graduate anyway as they were BAD as selected within their 
systems. They also had to be at minimum two years behind their compatriots. 
They had to have other handicaps such as single parent homes etc

Of this batch of students 82% graduated in the Catholic school they were sent 
to. They took the SAT test in a far greater % then similar students in public 
school and also scored far higher. Paul T Hill, who directed the study for 
Rand found that the athmosphere alone changed the students a lot.

The 'communal' aspect of the schools, which was reflected in an extensive 
array of school activities, a spirit of collegiality among teachers, and a
"set of shared beliefs ...  (underpinned) by a set of general moral
commitments" was among those hard to explain differences that made for 
different results in the endproduct.

Such value systems may exist in the public suburban schools were a difference 
in quality may not be as pervasive because of parental influence, but where 
that influence exists only marginally, Catholic schools can and do provide a
substitute that works. It is the main reason why 'choice' would be most 
beneficial for those who are on the bottom of our social agenda.

Fred


-- 
W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr   
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Subject: Re:      Forwarded mail, and comments
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 16:48:07 GMT


   Colleen, as I read your message I became more and more convinced,
based on the context of what you were saying, that you had been
divorced and remarried, and so had left the Catholic Church because
you were barred from the Sacraments.

   However, it still didn't sound quite right, and finally I came to
where you said that you had not remarried.  You have made a very great
mistake in leaving the Church, because you were never barred from the
Sacraments just for being divorced.  Marty pretty much summed
everything up in his reply to you, but I don't think it can be
emphasized enough that your divorce in no way excluded you from any
part of the Church, nor was it even likely to have been a sin.

   I don't know where you got the impression that you couldn't receive
Communion, but it is absolutely wrong!  The only thing I see that you
may need to confess before receiving Communion in the Catholic Church
is having left the Church.  But that is no problem; all you have to do
is come back.

   Even for those who have divorced and remarried, there can still be
salvation, and although these people cannot receive the Sacraments,
they are not cut off from the Church.  As Pope John Paul II said in
_Familiaris consortio_:

	...  By acting in this way the church professes her own
	fidelity to Christ and to his truth.  At the same time she
	shows motherly concern for these children of hers, especially
	those who, through no fault of their own, have been abandoned
	by their legitimate partner.

	  With firm confidence she believes that those who have
	rejected the Lord's command and are still living in this state
	will be able to obtain from God the grace of conversion and
	salvation, provided that they have persevered in prayer,
	penance and charity.

   I'll post the rest of this section of _Familiaris consortio_ in a
separate article.

   Colleen, God bless, and remember that your situation is by no means
hopeless.  There is no reason that you cannot receive the Sacraments
in the Catholic Church.

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic