From: geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Tailgaters abound!
Date: 29 Sep 92 22:31:54 GMT
Followup-To: rec.autos.driving
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Menlo Park, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: purplehaze.corp.sun.com



In article <BvAKwE.Fow@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan) writes:

>This "wasting space" argument reminds me of the guy who was complaining
>about people who leave their turn signals flashing while they sit at a
>red light. It may be your personal pet peeve, but your attempts to
>rationalize it as some kind of universal injustice fall flat.

That was probably me, because as a matter of fact that *is* a pet peeve
of mine.  Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that it was.  The
shoe fits quite comfortably.

But you're overstating your case rather dramatically if you assert that
I feel it's a "universal injustice," because it's neither.  If anything,
it's a minor annoyance, a sloppy little braindead habit that a lot of 
drivers have because they haven't developed sufficient self-discipline
to pay attention to what they're doing and why.

And "rationalizing?"  That's a term for the post-hoc mental gymnastics
people go through to justify their *own* actions, not to condemn those
of others.  Let's keep our definitions straight, or we'll be wasting 
even more time.

------

>Let's see: I've been rear ended at stoplights three times in the last 8
>years or so, but I've never been hit by a meteorite. 

I've not only never been rear-ended at a stoplight, I don't even *know*
anyone who's been rear-ended at a stoplight -- and no, I don't live a 
hermit's lifestyle or drive on deserted roads.  Note that I'm not saying 
it doesn't happen, but that it's my direct observation and personal 
experience that it's an extremely rare and unlikely occurrence.

Perhaps you were rear-ended because, in an effort to be cautious and leave
that open space, you stopped short and took the drivers behind you by
surprise?

------

>Oh, but of course, my personal experience has no effect on the CHANCES. 
>OK, let's compare the total number of rear end collisions per year in 
>America to the total number of incidents where a meteorite strikes a
>vehicle in that same year. You're trying to tell me that these two 
>probabilities are equal? OK, I'll keep an open mind. Where are your 
>facts to back up your claim?

Oh, come on, Khan.  You're not only descending into the realm of the 
absurd, you're misrepresenting my point and setting up a straw-man argument.
I feel I was quite clear.

I didn't say that the probability of being rear-ended at a stoplight was
the same as the probably of one's car being struck by a meteorite; in fact,
I said nothing specifically about *cars* being struck by  meteorites at all.
The point is that both events are quite rare, and that taking steps to
protect oneself from either of them was unnecessary and downright silly.
The mention of meteorites was merely a simile:

GM->Wasting space at a red light in case of a rear-ender is like refusing to 
GM->go outdoors without a crash helmet, as a precaution against meteorites.

How their respective probabilities of occurrence compare is completely 
irrelevant.  If it makes you more comfortable, feel free to substitute a
simile about not wanting to hike across the Sahara without an umbrella,
or whatever.

------

>This kind of hyperbole does nothing to make me want to give up the space
>cushion practice. Absolutely nothing. You'll have to be a little more
>convincing than that, Geoff.

Whether you're genuinely convinced by my "hyperbole" or not, I couldn't
help noticing that you only addressed one of the points I made against
your practice, as though it was the only one.  What about the others that
you conveniently ignored? 

If you're going to shoot down my argument, you'll have to shoot down all of 
it, because each facet is strong enough to stand on its own.  You can't 
just pick and choose at random, as though you've bellied up to an intellectual 
smorgasbord.

------

>Wail all you want, but there is a valid reason for maintaining that space
>cushion, and people are going to do it whether you like it or not.

Why the belligerent stubbornness?  Can't you discuss the merits and the
disadvantages of various driving practices without resorting to that
kind of mindset?

Between the selective editing mentioned above and the distinct note of
obstinacy I detected in your latest missive, I get the impression that I 
inadvertently struck a nerve with this topic.  That serves to illustrate
what an unfortunate ego investment many people have in their driving habits,
and the difficulty a lot of folks have discussing such things objectively and
dispassionately, without getting defensive.


Geoff


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