HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Virginia Department of Health
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:05:15 EST
From:         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Freedom of Expression
              9 Nov 1992 16:08:19 GMT from <kilroy@GBORO.GLASSBORO.EDU>

On Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:08:19 GMT (Dr Nancy's Sweetie) said:
>Michael Kline writes of a public school student who was not permitted to end
>an article with `God Bless'; given the subject line, this is described as an
>infringement of that student's rights.
>
>
>The student at that high school can go to a streetcorner and say "God Bless"
>all he wants; he can earn money and print up flyers with "God Bless" on them
>and hand those out all day long.  But he has no right to use school facilities
>for a message that the school administration doesn't approve.  His rights have
>not in any way been violated by this particular decision.  It's not his press,
>so it's not his freedom.
>
Curiously enough, about 3 weeks ago, the school laid claim to the public
sidewalks outside a school and had a 54 year old grandmother arrested for
doing that very same thing, telling others that God loved them and passing
out tracts. She was subsequently strip searched 3 times. After the ALCJ
set the record straight, she's out there again, spreading the word.

Maks.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 10:18:39 EST
From:         carol nemec <YA67@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: A Vote For Morality

I would like to thank Michael Kline for the information he
posts.  I do not have access to much of the information and
I appreciate having the facts and resources to back them up.
Being in the world and not of it is very difficult for me.
When I see examples like Michael and others on this list,
it encourages me to stand up for Christ and Christian values.
I am scum when I fail to do so.  But I am also forgiven.

Praise the Lord...in all things give thanks.  His mercy
endureth forever.

Bless you Michael and family, may the Lord continue to use you!

Carol Nemec
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 08:31:42 -0600
From:         MARCHIBOLD@MSCD.BITNET
Subject:      Re: The Gospel

I have to agree with Eric's assertion that it was reading the scripture
which brought me to a Catholic faith.  Something that my husband and I
have both experienced about our journey from fundamentalist (for him)/
evangelical (for me) Christian expression and Catholic Chrisitian
expression is that there is a depth and texture to Catholicism that
doesn't seem available in other "denominations".  That sentence was
convoluted and a very subjective statement.  But it is a realization that
I have come to over the last decade or so.

I want to thank everyone who is participating in this thread.  I've been
challenged to think hard and study scripture about this subject.

Molly Archibold
From: Lubosh.Hanuska@anu.edu.au (Lubosh)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Lord's greatest gifts !
Date: 8 Nov 92 23:17:00 GMT
Organization: ANU Canberra
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In article <921107.22362451.053122@USM.CP6> THERESA BLACKWELL,
TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET writes:

>My nephew will be three on Dec. 17th.
>His name is Cameron O'Brian Hillman
Firstly I thought I won't rubbish the network with a personal reply...
But I want to say more than that. Right in front of me is a photo of my
nephew Timotei and my little niece Louise. They are playing "doctors",
and Timo is examining if Louise is "sick". Oh, they are so cute. I only
got this photo a few weeks ago, and I had to cry and laugh at it... Yeah,
Timo is going to be three on April 6th, Louise is a year and a half
younger, and they got a young brother Tais just 10 days ago !!! I love
them, and I'm going to see them right after Christmas. They haven't seen
me for a year and a half, but Timo still remembers me, and talks to me on
the phone time to time. My sister says he was really sad when I left, and
it was quite surprising for a little kid like that... However, he's very
clever, he already speaks quite well in both Danish and Slovak ! Yes,
these little ones, they are the Lord's greatest gifts. I pray for them
everywhere I can, and for yours, too. (Obviously it might be a long long
time for me to have my own little ones  :-)
Yours in Christ,
Lubosh
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:26:12 EST
From:         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET>
Subject:      Rush - Tax The Rich? How Rich Is Rich?

    Rush - Clinton's Expectations --------------------------------------

    From the New York Times. Expectations are lowering. Recent headlines.
From the "Political Memo" section by Michael Nelly.

    "Clinton, After Raising Hopes, Tries to Lower Expectations"

    Sub headings:
         "Democrats are finding perils in the politics of hope."
         "The President-elect tries to see what can really be achieved."

    Rush says this is happening because "the welfare state is over."
There isn't that much money to keep throwing it around. We've tried it
before and it just doesn't work.

    MAKS> Remember the "promise" not to tax those making under $200,000?
Of course we don't get promises from Clinton, I mean after all, you can't
tell when things might change. Well, it appears they've changed even
before he got into office...

    Senator Daniel Moynihan, New York from CNN Evans and Novak: "Yes, I
think we're going to kick up on that over $100,000 class, and there's
money there, and a lot more money than there was 15 years ago. And I
think taking the capital gains down from 28 which it is now which is not
quite but it's toward the top of the income tax, take it down to 15, call
it a deal and get governing. Let's stop fussing about taxing and spending
and let's govern."

    Did you hear that? Why it's a capital gains tax cut!!! I thought that
would only benefit the rich. Yes, and here's a Democrat saying "Hey,
let's go ahead and do it. We'll trade it off for a tax on people making
over $100,000!?!?" I thought it used to be $200,000, but hey, why
quibble? (MAKS> This means my boss and his wife will get "hit") Small
amount of chump change, isn't it? So there you have it.

    Capital gains tax is exactly what is needed. But they couldn't get
elected saying so, because their constituents think that that only helps
the rich. Tried to tell you up front, and long before the election, and
the media knew all of this too. Amazing how things change after the
election when the truth can't hurt you anymore.

    Votes, Just Some Humorous Dribble ----------------------------------
   In Grand Rapids, Channel 13 had a "The Great Late Debate" where the
people could mail in votes to see "Married with Children" or "Rush
Limbaugh". MWC got 3925 votes and RL got 7359 votes.

Maks.
That's (M)ichael (A)lan (K)line, (S)r. for those who asked, son of
Joseph William Kline, JR.
From: DIEFENBAK@TOPAZ.UCQ.EDU.AU (Ken Diefenbach)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Invective vs Rational Discussion
Date: 10 Nov 92 22:56:00 GMT
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Folks

Dan the man said it well. I don't always agree with what MAKS (Michael A. Kline
Senior) says. I don't always agree with what Dan Graham says. Matter of fact,
there are no people on the planet I would agree with all the time. Even myself.

What I will say about this purported scumbag is that he (and he is not the only
one, but the only one to be so referred to) has taken the time and effort to
encourage me when the hassles I am going through with my development-delayed
son have loomed larger than mountains over me. Thanks publicly MAKS.

"By their fruits you will know them"
"By this shall all men know that you are my disciples if you have _love_ one
for another."

There may be truth in the idea that persecution of gays leads to suicides. My
position in this particular thread which I don't particularly want to encourage
is probably quite close to Mike's but that is of no matter as far as manners
are concerned.

My $AUS0.02 worth (approx $US.014)

Ken Diefenbach
From: NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET (Jesse Carnes)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: WHAT WE OFFER GOD?
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:14:13 GMT
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              11 Nov 1992 19:51:05 -0700 from <DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU>

Dear Mark Drake ;

I do not follow Sproul, Calvin, Luther, etc.
Whether one calls me "reformed" or not is rather superfluous, in that what I
desire is to be BIBLICAL.


Jesse
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 10:32:02 EST
From:         carol nemec <YA67@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      Banning books

Theresa...
>The nation needs it.   Didn't HE say somewhere in Psalms or Proverbs that
>"I'll turn all nations into HELL that forget me." ????
Angela...
That's a pretty harsh statement from a "loving" god.
----------------------------------------------------------

Yes, pretty harsh, but He's also a just God.  We get what we
deserve.  The wages of sin is death....But the GIFT of God
is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

We all will get eternal life, it just depends on where we
spend it.  Those that forget the Lord, deny Him, turn away
from Him, etc.  will be spending it in hell.

Carol Nemec
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 08:51:48 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: WHAT WE OFFER GOD?
              11 Nov 1992 08:47:17 -0500 from <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM>

Eric ;

First, you need to stop ... fora moment ... and DEFINE "free will" within
the scope of the Scriptures.  Does it state that man has a "free will"?
Does it define it and say that Christians HAVE it as well?

First things first, Eric.


Jesse Carnes
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 10:28:44 -0500
From:         Eric James Ewanco <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM>
Subject:      Re: The Gospel

Excerpts from christia: 13-Nov-92 Re: The Gospel Jesse Carnes@LSUVM.BITNE (387)

> Eric ;

> You have got to be kiddin' man! You cannot be serious.

I am a serious as a heart attack.  I used to believe what the
evangelicals taught.  But when I really examined Scriptures, I found
their errors.  Many people have done the same.  Scott Hahn and Gerry
Matatics were both REFORMED PRESBYTERIAN MINISTERS who were staunch
anti-Catholics.  But when they really tried to disprove Catholicism from
Scriptures, they ended up being converted to Catholicism.  Scott Hahn
was in fact a university professor at Gordon-Conwell theological
seminary.  He was invited to be dean, but couldn't because he was
seriously thinking of converting to Catholicism after discovering all
the unscriptural errors of the Reformed position.

Imagine that.  Some of your own camp -- very well respected ministers --
defected when they really studied the Catholic Church.

> One last point :  The Scriptures ... not MY local church nor Bill Chapman's
> nor Dave Talaga's has any ulitmate authority on ANY of these issues.

Who has the authority over interpretation of Scripture when people
disagree on the interpretation of a verse?

> The Word of God stands TRUE alone ... no matter if the world dies and goes
> to Hell in a hand basket.

But 1 Peter 1:25 says that the Word of God that stands forever is the
word PREACHED TO YOU, not the Scriptures.  Isaiah 59:21 says that the
word of God will never depart out of the mouths of God's people in the
new covenant.  Jude 3 says that the truth was entrusted ONCE for all TO
THE SAINTS (not to the Scriptures!)

> As the Word says,  "Let God be true and every man a lier."

Yep.  And what does the written Word of God say? "Hold fast the the
traditions which you received, whether by word of mouth or by letter."

Eric
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 13:39:44 EDT
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Christian Attitudes About Cannibalism

In article <CHRISTIA%92110906372935@ASUACAD.BITNET>,
AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU (Angela Zimmerman) says:
>
>Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
>Phone: 588-6757
>
>Why don't we eat humans all the time?  I have several answers to that one.
>First, the obvious one: emotional.  I can't see too many people being
>able to ship off their newly departed parents, friends, etc. to places
>unknown to be devoured.  It's disrespectful  :).
>
>Secondly, it would be a major health risk.  Most people who die do not
>die in their "prime", so to speak.  They've either died of old age or
>disease, for the most part.  Diseased and meat is out right away, and
>people who die of old age probabaly wouldn't have much on them that was
>good enough to eat.  And, as we know with chickens and cows, the meat
>on older animals is tougher and harder to eat.
>
>Finally, if we ate the dead, how would all the funeral directors make a
>living????:)
>
>(sorry if this offended someone...lame attempt at throwing humor on a
>rather, uh, delicate subject).

Ever read "Modest Proposal"?:)
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 17:32:00 GMT
From:         Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK
Subject:      RE: Banning the Bible

From:     Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@EDU.LOUISVILLE.ULKYVM>
Subject:  Banning the Bible

>  If a school wants to put
> the Satanic bible in the library, they should be allowed to (although I
> can't see too many parents, parents who fund the school, no less, going
> for that one).

To a certain extent I agree.  However, I am worried that by not watch what
material is available to children, we lead them astray by letting them think
we condone it.

One of the satirical puppet shows over here ("Spiting Images") introduced
a Jesus character and was beginning to edge close to blaspamy.  A group of
muslems to get the character removed from the screens.  A debate is now
going on about if the church was being luke warm, not defending the faith,
not standing up.  The other side goes, "it wasn't that bad" or "we were
turning the other cheek."

I sometimes wonder if by allowing freedom of belief we have stopped teaching
the Gospel and started teaching "anything goes."  We need to find a middle
path.

Carol A Long,  Southampton Institute of Higher Education, England
        email     :  Z_STAFF_CL@UK.AC.SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE
DISCLAIMER - merely musings unless otherwise stated.
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Date:         Sun, 8 Nov 1992 21:18:00 -0400
From:         STYLESBG@WATT.CCS.TUNS.CA
Subject:      Re: Lord's greatest gifts !

Lobash,  you didn't rubbish the network at all.  Keep the personal replies
coming!!  The outpouring of love that you showed for your nephews and
nieces was tremendously refreshing,  in the light of the tendancy of a No.
of some "pro-choicer" to be so cold when it comes to human life.  Our three
"little ones" are now 25 (son,  Rob);  22 (daughter,  Terri);  and 19 (daughter,
   Lori),  and they have been precious from the start.  Bless the Lord forever
that someone did not convince us to choose to kill them when they were "just
fetuses".  Actually,  in my wife and my minds and hearts,  they were never ever
"just fetuses";  they were always special gifts from God.  All His love to all
of you as you get prepared for another exciting week of Life in the Lord Jesus!!
From: ICH529@DJUKFA11.BITNET (Matthias Radke)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: God/Allah...
Date: 13 Nov 92 08:13:47 GMT
 <kramerro.32.0@columbia.dsu.edu> <1992Nov12.004201.16289@doug.cae.wisc.edu>
Organization: Forschungszentrum Juelich

In article <1992Nov12.004201.16289@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, nabil@cae.wisc.edu (Nabil
Ayoub) says:
>
>'Son of God' translates into 'ibn Allah'. I feel upset when Christians
>here - whether interntionally or not - refer to the word 'Allah' in
>an inappropriate way. It is exactly like Jehova, Yahwe, Elohim, etc.
>
I understand that you may feel upset, but I don't believe that a
Christian will intentionally offend any of his sisters or brothers.
Some time ago, as a newcomer, I raised also a question about Allah.
At that time I regrettably was unaware of previous discussions on
this list and did not know of the very good article by James Kiefer
in the CHRISTIA LIBRARY (file name "ISALLAH GOD").
                         In His Love
                                     Matthias
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante)
Subject: Re:      RUSH - More Good News
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 13:46:46 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.025105.18942@infodev.cam.ac.uk> gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan) writes:
>
>In article <CHRISTIA%92110718243484@ASUACAD.BITNET>,         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET> writes:


>
>>     "Tough job ahead for a man with no majority"
>
>He does have a majority; a large one. Or is this about Bush? I don't
>understand.

   HARDLY. Or at least it depends on where the majority is that you
   are talking about. Nationally, Clinton DID NOT receive a majority
   of the vote; only a plurality voted for him. More voted for
   Bush and Perot combined. In other words, more people voted for
  someone OTHER than Clinton than voted for him.

   Does he have a majority in congress?
   Absolutely.
   But a Democratic Party majority in Congress is nothing new ....
   They have controlled the House since, well, 1956 or something like that.
   So I hardly think it is a resounding approval of Clinton. It's a well-
   known thesis in academic political science that people vote for their
   congressmen not out of (solely) policy questions, but because people
   think he's a nice guy, helps bring federal jobs to the area, got
   the Social SEcurity Adminstration to speed processing of granny's
   check, and so forth -- "errand boys." 

>
>>     California - Voters rejected by 58% to 42% a "Soak the Rich Plan"
>> against business., The proposal included breaks for the less affluent.
>> (Exactly what Bill Clinton proposes to do...)
>>     and - Repealed a "Tax on Snacks", a part of 1991 revenue raising
>> package.
  
>
>"against business". Really unbiased reporting here, I see. Come on; 58-42
>is a pretty narrow margin, and California is a more than usually affluent
>state. You'd expect this sort of thing. I'm surprised the margin wasn't
>more. 

   1. No matter what else you called the california proposal, anyting
      which raised taxes that much on business WAS "against business."
     
   2. Me thinks we have an inconsisitency here. 
      Clinton got less than 50% of the vote, and he has a "landslide."
      Or, as the poster put it, a "huge majority."

      The soak the rich proposal (remember, we're talking about a _12%_
      income tax -- and that's only from the state) is rejected by
      58% of the voters, and that's a "pretty narrow margin."
    
      Better withdraw that comment about Clinton having a "huge majority."
 


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
john r la plante                    graduate student, Ohio State University
jrl+@osu.edu                        political analysis done while you wait
From: ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM (Eric James Ewanco)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Reply to Brad Kaiser
Date: 6 Nov 92 23:00:28 GMT
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Michael,

I apologize if you're hurt by the fact that we haven't answered your
questions.  It's not because we're necessarily ignoring you or don't
like you; it's just that most of us prefer to have a basis of discussion
we can agree on, and take a greater interest in discussions where both
parties are orthodox Christians, which are substantially easier to
conduct.  Unfortunately you are not an orthodox Christian, and for me to
respond to your questions adaquately would require an astounding amount
of time and effort, with very little hope of coming to any sort of a
consensus.

Since I do not recognize the Urantia book as authoritative or inspired,
but rather do believe Scripture to be authoritative and inspired (which
you do not), you're not likely to convince me that anything in the
Urantia book is true, and I'm unlikely to convince ou that anything in
Scripture is true.  Hence detente.

I must admit that your faith is completely and totally bizarre beyond
imagination.  Obviously understanding your position would take a great
deal of research and effort in understanding, which I'm afraid I do not
have time to do.  I frankly confess I take interest in your faith only
insofar as it is fantastical, novel, unique, and esoteric.

So I think this will help you understand why we haven't been replying to
your questions . . .

A brother in Christ,
Eric
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 16:14:05 EST
From:         Lon Mendelsohn <LMENDELS@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU>
Subject:      Election Results

Johm La Plante  comments that there is a biblical basis for mourning over
the status of one's country or people, citing the Lamentations of Jeremiah
as an example.  One could argue that such mourning as appears in the Bible
is directly related to the condition of God's people.  Personally, I am
in part saddened by what I see to be some of the immediate results of
Clinton being elected, but I'd probably be equally saddened by the results
of Bush or Perot being elected.

If Clinton's election results in the increased persecution of Christians,
I personally think that this is likely to advance rather than retard the
cause of Christ.  There are ways in which our brothers and sisters who
have weathered persecution are far stronger than those of us who haven't.
If Clinton's policies advance the cause of sin in some areas (just as
Bush's and Reagan's advanced the cause of sin in other areas), then we
as Christians need to use that as an opportunity to preach the
uncompromised full Gospel of our Lord.

Shalom,

Lon Mendelsohn
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