From: jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer)
Subject: Re: Feminism's Lesbian Leaders (was: Why are there only men on)
Date: 07 Jan 93 06:56:42 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1993Jan6.195235.23012@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>In article <1993Jan06.004608.22218@microsoft.com> jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer) writes:
>>My point was that lesbians [women who have sexual relationships 
>>exclusively with other women] do not necessarily lack experience
>>in hetero relationships by observation or by participation.
>
>True. And the very fact that they have abandoned the "het world" and
>its lifestyle strongly suggests that they found it to be quite distasteful.

"abandoned the "het world" and its lifestyle"?
Ummm...of the gays and lesbians I know, the only lifestyle
difference is the gender of who they sleep with, a lack of
birth control decisions, and having kids is more invovled [adoption
or artificial insemination are most common].  Most of the gays
and lesbians I know are coworkers of mine at microsoft, and are very
like other microsofties. Their SO, if they have one, just happens to
be of the same sex. It's not like they've gone to a single-gender
enclave on the moon or anthing...especially the lesbians [can you
say 'lots more men than women work here'?]

"distasteful"?  Possibly. I have heard that some women choose to
become lesbians because of unfortunate histories with men [including
abuse, rape, and so on]. (I actually know noone who has done this
or who advocates it.)

I think you should consider, tho, that a lesbian's preference
doesn't necessarily have anything to do with men. If I may assume
you are heterosexual, Robert, may I ask if your preference for
women is because you are sexually attracted to women or because 
of your attitudes toward men?

A preference to chocolate doesn't mean that all cheesecake must
be destroyed <grin>. Not that you'd want to get between a chocoholic
and the chocolate, mind you...

>So their advice to other women is NOT going to be "useful advice on
>how to live your life among men", but rather more like "how to shaft
>those male scum, and live like us!"

Logically, perhaps. Not knowing any lesbians who find men distasteful,
I can't say.  As I posted earlier, I owe a relationship to a lesbian
who fixed me up with her male coworker and egged me on ;>  I've found
discussing relationships with my lesbian friends to be pretty much
like discussing relationships with my other women friends. Actually,
the lesbian friends are more "go for it" then the others...when I asked
one, she said she pushes me because she spent so long feeling guilty
for liking women and she let a lot of possibilities slip by, so now
she doesn't want to see anyone miss a chance for happiness. As a result,
if I look at a guy for more than a few seconds, she's checking for a
wedding ring and telling me to introduce myself.

I've never had a lesbian suggest I "live like her" - in my circle, at
least, suggesting that one 'change' one's sexual orientation is taboo.
If YOU decide you've changed, fine, but to 'force' anyone to change
is a VERY sore subject. VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY.

>>IE, you see that if many of the leaders of the feminist movement and 
>>publishers of feminist magazines are lesbians who happen to hate hets,
>>then these lesbians will preach anti-het hate?
>
>That would seem to be a reasonable conclusion.

Again, I'm not questioning the conclusion, it just seems to me
that you see it as a big problem where I see it as a teensy minor
possibility. Main reason I'm posting on this thread is because 
of your characterization of lesbians, which is very unlike my 
experience (which does not say anything about your experience).

-jen
Newsgroups: alt.feminism