From: gsroka@leland.Stanford.EDU (Gregory Sroka)
Subject: Re: Penn State Should Withdraw
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 19:02:32 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.125132.20730@lgc.com> mbs@zycor.lgc.com (Matt Shostak) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.211223.19183@walter.bellcore.com> lein@cat.uucp (John Leinaweaver) writes:
>>In article <168A2A8EA.JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com> JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com writes:
... undignified Penn State bashing deleted ...
>>>If Penn State has any integrity at all, they will reject the offer to play
>>>in the Lackluster Bowl and let a team that is deserving go.
>>>I think playing a 3-7 Pittsburgh team at home is reward enough for this
>>>year's team.  Let that be their bowl game.
>>
>>Last year the Bowls had a self imposed moritorium on selecting teams before
>>the third week in November until ND, knowing they still had to play        
>>Tennessee and Penn St, basicly told the Sugar Bowl take them now or we
>>won't go if you offer later.
>
>Just because you wish that this is the way things transpired doesn't
>make it so.  There is no proof that ND "forced" the Sugar Bowl to take them. 
                       ^^^^^^^^
Yes! A voice of reason. There are too many posts saying things like;
ND refused to play FSU at home because ..., or ND doesn't want the
Orange Bowl because ..., ND this, ND that.  It makes me think I'm
reading a supermarket tabloid! If you're gonna post a rumor, at least
give us the source, if you want to be taken seriously. 
And I really love follow ups like; ND really did that? Gosh I always
knew I hated them for a reason. Wake up! It's more like Mr. ND Hater
says ND did x because y ... Let's ask Mr. NDH to give a source for x
and also acknowledge that y is his opinion (unless it's from the
source of x).
 
>This was discussed here at length last year, with ND-haters loudly claiming
>unfair play.  But there was never any proof except in the minds of those
>ND-haters.  Yes, PSU was, in my opinion, more deserving of the Sugar
>Bowl bid than the Irish were.  But ND didn't hold a gun to anyone's head.
>>
>>As far as PSU (if they beat Pitt) being 7-4 and going to a bowl, one
>>could make the same claim about Notre Dame if they lost to Michigan, BC,
>>Penn St, and USC.  A 7-4 ND would be guarenteed a birth in either the
>>Orange, Sugar, Cotton, Fiesta.  The Notre Dame wins would come against   
>>rough and tumble teams like Air Force, Navy, Northwestern, Purdue,
>>Michigan St...   
>
>This may be true, but I'm not positive that ND would accept such a bid.
>There is a precedent for them to decline if they don't feel worthy (they
>declined a bowl despite an 8-3 record once, I think).  They probably would
>go at 7-4 if there weren't a clearly more deserving team, however.
>
A bowl bid was declined by ND during the Faust era. I think it was
because invites were out while ND had a 6-3 record, but they felt
they didn't deserve it unless they won the last two games against
Penn State (I think) and USC. I believe this was the infamous USC
non-TD I mentioned earlier. I don't remember the PSU result, so
they finished either 6-5 or 7-4 and stayed home. I think this was
the 82-83 season. 
 
>>
>>I don't think Penn State fans said that ND didn't deserve a bowl, but 
>>Penn State plasters ND 35-13 and gets to play the 3rd place SEC team
>>while ND plays the SEC champ (and earns $1,000,000 more), hardly fair.
>
>No argument here.
I agree that Penn State deserved better. They had a rough start, but
an awesome finish to the season.
However, you can't complain when the undeserved team crushes the SEC
champ.  And my unused Sugar Bowl tix are sure pretty to look at.
I couldn't make it, and if I had known about this group last year,
could have put them up for sale. :(

-
Greg Sroka
Menlo Park, CA

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college