HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jpersons@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John C Persons)
Subject: Re: Is there anybody here that's not a Baptist?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:13:18 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.173543.8898@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> salaris@niblick.ecn.purdue.edu (Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrabbits) writes:
>In article <drice.712393406@ponder>, drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Keith Rice) writes:
>> In <1992Jul28.205404.21845@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> salaris@niblick.ecn.purdue.edu (Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrabbits) writes:
>> 
>> >We do not accept "Speaking in tongues" as a common occurence during
>> >religious experiences and we view it more as a monkey see monkey do
>> >phenomenon.
>> 
                            [...]

>bible before you go biting on my religion.  I never made any derogatory
>comments on your religion, I just pointed out the extreme differences.
>

I believe you wrote both of these sentences, Steven.

Gosh, no, I don't consider it derogatory for you to label my
religious practices a "monkey see monkey do" phenomenon. Nope,
not at all.  Why, it's uplifting and promotes unity in the
body of Christ.  Yup, that's it.

I refuse to ridicule your religious practices and contribute
to this depressing flame fest.

John
From: superc@hurricane.ksu.ksu.edu (Shawn E Chase)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Phil Collins- talking to Jesus
Date: 24 Jul 1992 10:29:39 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hurricane.ksu.ksu.edu


 I heard this song on the radio the other day. Then, two nights ago, I was
watching tv, and I flipped across sin-tv (oops, I mean MTV) and I saw the video.
Needless to say, I find the man's taste rather foul. I only saw about the last 30
or 40 seconds of the video, but, from what I gathered, he is poking at
evangelists, etc...Am I getting his point correctly, or is there more to it. I
haven't heard the song in entirety or seen the video in entirety. Could someone
who has heard/seen please shed some light on this for me?????


-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+Shawn E. Chase          +SUPERC@MATT.KSU.EDU + Offending, to some I am, 'cause+
+Dept Of Industrial Engg +SUPERC@KSUVM.KSU.EDU+ I tell the truth, my man       +
+Kansas State University +aka The Hood Of Good+ S.F.C.- "The Bomb"             + 
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: tbromley.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Mike Warnke article
Date: 31 Jul 92 17:19:33 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton

I don't understand how to access ftp sites, but am very interested in 
finding out what all the controversy is about.  Could someone e-mail me 
an address for Cornerstone with back issue information, so I could get a 
copy of the original article.
(If the article is long it would be very inconvenient for me to read it 
itself by e-mail, and I would prefer to get a text copy.  If someone 
cares to provide one, I can supply a mailing address, and will gladly 
reimburse them for the cost of the issue.)

Any other sources which you care to cite on this matter would be 
appreciated.

Tom Bromley
From: HJ46@lafibm.lafayette.edu (Baboo (Holton, Jeffrey))
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Michael W. Smith
Date: 22 Jul 92 13:09:03 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University
Originator: news@lafcol

In article <1992Jul21.193455.8460@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> cb062@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ira C. Smith) writes:
>
>   I think the point in many cases. Is not the aspect of
>crossing over, but the motive. MWS, love the guys music,
>HOWEVER, if A Place in This World is a spiritual song, as was my
>first impression, how in the world do we get a love song out of
>it????? Walking through the desert looking for a woman????
>
>   If the phases,
> If there were millions down on there knees,
>among the many can you still here me.......
>
>and
>
>I need your light to help me find........
>
>were about the woman, Sounds like idolatry to me.
>
>I dont think that was his ORIGINAL intent of the song. The words
>state this. So, why did he change it, to bring glory to God?,
>To bring others to Christ??
>This is what I was refering to when I was talking about
>compromising to fit the mold. If we are supposed to be diff-
>rent, why do we always have to conform to be heard?

I *assumed* it was about the woman looking for Christ.  COrrect me if
I'm wrong.
From: gt6851a@prism.gatech.EDU (Brian King)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Careful with that definition!
Date: 30 Jul 92 22:10:05 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


In his acceptance speech at the Democratic Convention, Clinton spoke of a "new
covenant" he wanted to make with the American people.  According to the Revell
Bible Dictionary, "Covenants are essentially formal announcements by God of
his purposes and intentions.  Most define how God's people are to relate to
him."  A covenant also depends largely on the character of the one making it.
God's is beyond question.  Clinton's is in some doubt.


A covenant does NOT depend on the character of the one making it.  A contract
is a contract, legally binding whether it is with Fred Rogers or Leona
Helmsley.  clinton's statement does not seem to  be a covenant only because
your definition is artificially narrow.  For a true definition of a wor, 
check a REAL dictionary, not a "bible dictionary."  A bible dictionary's 
definition of a covenant is much narrower than the word's common usage, 
because it only defines the usage of that word WITHIN the BIBLE.  No, Clinton
cannot measure up to your "bible definition,"  but he is not held to that
standard.



-- 
"in this day & age...music performed by humans?...Hum?! - Wilde Silas Tomkyn 
"and for the Catholic students... FISH!!!" - Galactic Cowboys
Brian King - Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta: gt6851a@prism.gatech.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From:  (The DOK)
Subject: Re: New Trouble
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 00:38:45 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.121716.5710@iscsvax.uni.edu>, clopton5107@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
(my bit deleted)
> 
>         Of course the lyrics are dark, and of course the Christian overtones
> are gone--the band members who were Christians are gone!
>         Ted Kirkpatrik of Tourniquet (who used to play wiht some of these guys)
> was very mad when he found out that some Christian rock radio shows were
> playing trouble a couple of years ago.  He said that the guys in Trouble were
> not Christians and that Troubles music did not belong on a Christian radio
> show.
>         If you have any doubts--check out Trouble's relationship with Rick
> Rubin and what he's into these days!
> 
> 
Oh deary deary me!!! Please give me more info. on the Christians who used to be
in Trouble, what are they doing now, when they left etc.

Thanx a lot
          The DOK
From: kemery@nmsu.edu (Kendal Emery)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: I WANT MY Z-TV
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:56:39 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: NMSU Computer Science


Hey Ho Fellow Campers

I called my cable company like a good subscriber yesterday
to ask them about Z-TV.  Their response was they never heard
of it,  and even if they had heard of it,  they didn't have
any free channels so wouldn't be able to put it on the air
anyway.  They did tell me that their radio service (Digital
Planet in our case) went kaplooy and that the new service they
were installing would have a christian channel on it.

Any way,  anyone have any more information on Z-TV.  Maybe
some of you Satellite TV Wiz's out there can tell me if it is
a satellite service and if so what satellite and transponder
can I find it on.

I WANT MY Z-TV!!!!

Kendal
--
*******************************************************************
*******************************************************************
** kemery@dante.nmsu.edu  (Kendal Emery)                         **
**                                                               **
**      "If Jesus came back today...                             **
**         We'd try to book Him on the Oprah Winfry Show"        **
**                      Randy Stonehill..Great Big Stupid World. **
**                                                               **
*******************************************************************
*******************************************************************
From: blosser_cy@lrc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Mike Warnke Article?
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:17:12 GMT
Organization: Lenoir-Rhyne College, Hickory, NC

Would anyone mind transcribing the Cornerstone article to the newsgroup for
those of us who can't get a copy?

Christopher

P.S.	I know it's a lot of trouble, but this is a very serious matter and
I'd like to know exactly what's going on. I would really appreciate it.
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante)
Subject: mike wankre: what about our knowledge of evil beings?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:46:01 GMT


Another topic, not yet discussed. Someone earlier made a reference to
Mike's work being a key source of knowledge about the occult, satanic
worship, and so forth. If the Cornerstone report is right, and he is
basically a fraud, what does that imply about "our" knowledge of 
satanism?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
john r la plante                    calling from the Ohio State University
jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  political analysis done while you wait
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: mueller@owlnet.rice.edu (Ernest Conrad Mueller)
Subject: Re: Mike Warnke Article?
Organization: Rice University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:56:41 GMT

Many people write something along the lines of:

>Would anyone mind transcribing the Cornerstone article to the newsgroup for
>those of us who can't get a copy?

>P.S.	I know it's a lot of trouble, but this is a very serious matter and
>I'd like to know exactly what's going on. I would really appreciate it.

I would like to point out that this is heavily illegal unless the express
written consent of the magazine is given.  (Or of course the senior editor
who posted earlier could do it.)  There have been several posts with an
address you can write, and, for $3, get a copy of the issue.  There is no
reason except for abject poverty that you cannot buy a copy.  It is
illegal and unkind to deprive this organization of its rightful profits by
posting the article in question on the net.

Legalistically yours,
Ernest Mueller
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: jeffries@iastate.edu (Anthony G Jeffries)
Subject: warnke.zip not on 
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 00:25:14 GMT

Oops... that should have said "...not on wuarchive.wustl.edu"

Someone posted earlier about the stuff from Cornerstone magazine about 
Mike Warnke not being on the aforementioned FTP site anymore.  It was there
last night.  I know because I FTP'd it from there.  It's not there now.  
What happened?

-- 
Anthony Glen Jeffries N0NRO               |------------------------|
N0NRO@N0AN.IA.USA.NA  (packet--ham radio) |-----Clever phrase------|
jeffries@iastate.edu                      |---under construction---|
tabl4@isuvax.iastate.edu                  |------------------------|
From: psurge@cs.utexas.edu (Troy Carpenter)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Totally bizarre Network
Date: 29 Jul 1992 10:43:29 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: levelland.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Jul29.130210.17981@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jpersons@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John C Persons) writes:
>In article <29JUL92.00101481@nauvax.ucc.nau.edu> smothers@nauvax.ucc.nau.edu writes:
>>Please don't send the topic police against me, but I can't just let a recent
>>post stand without challenge.
>>
>>     BENNY HEN IS A CULTIST. His teachings are heresey. For example:
>>

     [ Excellent examples of Hinn's nonsense deleted ]

>>
>
>Please provide citations.
>
>Thanks,
>John
>

If you would like, send me e-mail and I will provide a tape with substantial
quotes from Benny Hinn's own mouth and in his own voice.  I have quotes of him
saying the same thing at different times, so as not to think he just made a
slip of the tounge.  Some of the quotes I can provide are Benny saying:

Women were supposed to give birth from their side, not the ananomical way that
women currently give birth.

We are little "gods" on earth, that since cats begat cats and dogs begat dogs,
so God begats little gods, and since the bible says we are God's children, then
we must be gods.

We are little "Messiahs" on earth with all the ability Jesus had.  We are just
as much an incarnation of God as Jesus was.


Benny quotes people such as Kenneth Hagan and Kenneth Copeland.  I can provide
similar quote from these men as well.  Since Hinn holds these men to be such
annointed teachers, it would be safe to assume that Hinn holds to their
teachings (and in fact one of the Hinn quotes attributes the "we are god" idea
to Copeland).

As the previous poster mentioned, Benny has publically said that he wished he
could find scripture which allowed him to go out and kill those who are against
him, he wishes that the Holy Spirit would provide him with a "Holy machine gun"
so he could mow down his accusers.  This was actually directed to Paster John
McAuthur (of "Grace to You" fame) when he spoke out against Hinn and the 
Totally Bizzare Network (TBN) (Please understand that I am not labeling the
Trinity Broadcasting Network as evil, it is just a platform.  However, the
people using that platform currently are attacking the essentials of the 
Christian faith.)

My e-mail address is below.  If you would like this tape, please send me mail.
I may have to ask people to send me a blank tape if I get an overwhelming
response to this offer.



                                Troy Carpenter
                        Department of Computer Sciences
                        THE University of Texas, Austin
                              psurge@cs.utexas.edu

"You're so open minded that your brain leaked out" - Steve Taylor

*>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The best thing in life costs exactly that <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<*
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre)
Subject: Re: Mike Warnke
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 19:45:30 GMT

I have received a copy of the ZIP file from Cornerstone, and I
am preparing to place it out for anonymous FTP once I receive
permission from them to do so (I want to add a file to the archive
to make copyright disposition clear).

I just finished reading the main article.  This is serious stuff,
folks.  I am very depressed by it all, since Warnke was one of the
people I looked up to in high school and college.  I read and believed
The Satan Seller.  Now it appears that it does not hold up to the
scrutiny of research and to the light of truth.

There is an excellent side bar article written by Glenn Kaizer called
"Accountability in CCM?"  Since it is very appropriate to the newsgroup
rec.music.christian, and since it covers topics which have been discussed
there recently (and will no doubt continue to be discussed now that this
story has broken) I am going to seek permission to post the sidebar in
rec.music.christian in its entirely.  It's only about 8K.  It is in the
archive as "kaizrepl.txt".

I am saddened.....deeply saddened.  This is not only a poor reflection
on Warnke and his ministry, but also on other parts of the Nashville
CCM scene.  One of the most telling quotes in the main Warnke article
is this one, repeated by many Nashville insiders:

    Nashville has changed more Christians than Christians have
    changed Nashville.

This all gets back to accountability.  No one is an island, and God
doesn't expect any of us to try to meet the challenges and temptations
of life alone.  He gave us the church and He gave us one another.  We
MUST hold each other accountable, especially if we are in a position
which commands the respect of other christians (such as a leadership
or teaching role).

These are troubling times.

		William LeFebvre
		Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst
		Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
		Northwestern University
		<phil@eecs.nwu.edu>
From: clopton5107@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: New Trouble
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:17:16 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Jul20.053849.16315@newsroom.utas.edu.au>, (The DOK) writes:
>      Also Trouble's album _Manic Depression_ has got dark lyrics (as on other
> albums) but this time it seems the Christian overtones have gone. I only got
> to have a quick glance at the album so I couldn't get to read the lyrics. My 
> friend in Melbourne has said that the lyrics are disturbing, again has anyone 
> heard it and can give me their thoughts on it?

        Of course the lyrics are dark, and of course the Christian overtones
are gone--the band members who were Christians are gone!
        Ted Kirkpatrik of Tourniquet (who used to play wiht some of these guys)
was very mad when he found out that some Christian rock radio shows were
playing trouble a couple of years ago.  He said that the guys in Trouble were
not Christians and that Troubles music did not belong on a Christian radio
show.
        If you have any doubts--check out Trouble's relationship with Rick
Rubin and what he's into these days!
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: trw@spl1.spl.loral.com (Tim R Witort)
Subject: Re: And I thought this was a MUSIC news group!
Organization: Loral Software Productivity Laboratory
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 19:18:08 GMT

In article <Bs9MEC.Ju8@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, djn20624@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Danielson) writes:
|> 	Why is there so many articles about non-MUSIC Christian stuff or
|> Non-Christian Music stuff????????
|> 
|> 	Is Kings-X a "christian" group?
|> 	Does Mike Warnke sing?
|> 	Does being a Baptist have some musical connatations with it?
|> 	Is everyone posting here because S.R.C is too tightly moderated?
|> 
|> 	Some of this is meant to be sarcastic, but then again some isn't.
|> 
|> Dan.

  I agree. You just can't keep conversations nailed down to one
topic for very long or even a "type" of topic. We humans are so
scatterbrained! (I personally think that mind probes from U.F.O.s
are responsible)

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
; Tim Witort   |  If you'll take one look at the Savior, my friend, ;
; SPL Loral    |  you'll find His arms open wide. You'll find His   ;
;              |  arms open wide. -- Take 6                         ;
;-------------------------------------------------------------------;
;       My opinions are my own - not Loral's. Go figure!            ;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Pig Question (that's right...PIG!)
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:31:56 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania



-- 
===============================================================================
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
"What a waste it is to lose one's mind, or not to have a mind is being very
wasteful.  How true that is."--J. Danforth Quayle to United Negro College Fund
From: gt9730a@prism.gatech.EDU (Bill Beldin Standhardt)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: CCM Definitions?
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:28:13 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <92203.144457NXG101@psuvm.psu.edu>, NXG101@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>     There seems to be a lot of controversy in this net over the labeling of
> music as either Christian or secular/non-Christian.  It seems that most people
> set their own criteria for CCM :
>  a. Has the singer/group made a public announcement of their faith?
>  b. Do the lyrics specifically mention Christ or God with reverence?
>  c. Is the singer's music released on a Christian label (i.e. Sparrow)?
>     If we could get most of the netters to agree on this, it might save a lot
> of arguing.
     ^^^^^^^ Aww, but we do it in such a caring manner. No name calling or
	     insults. I try to present my arguments in an intelligent manner,
	     I don't always succeed, but I try anyway.
 
  You know, after I became a Christian, I had all of my Secular music
  in one section, and CCM in another, and would see which one was larger.
  Then I realized that this was silly, because it just seemed pointless
  to label an art form. I now have all of my music mixed in alphabetical 
  order with the CCM cd's "touching" their evil counterparts. Face it,
  music is music, this arguing,(according to Dan) IMHO, is just quibbling 
  over nit picks.
  As Steve Taylor put it, do you drink milk from a Christian Cow? 
  Are you awake nights wondering if the 7-11's manager that you patronize 
  is born-again? Just listen and learn from the music and what it's 
  trying to tell you.

  Are we supposed to not listen to these artist's if they don't meet
  the criteria above?

  Am I reading too much into this? Or is the idea just for the sake
  of contention? Oops, I meant convention. ;-)

  This being said, I humbly refuse to give any labeling(limiting)
  criterion to the music I listen to save for music IMHO, that is
  detrimental to my faith or my life. I.E. no Barry Manilow or
  Lawrence Welk :-)

  I mean well, I really do. Take care and God bless.

  Bill


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bill "Beldin" Standhardt  Wouldn't it, couldn't it, shouldn't it be nice     |
| Georgia Tech              to be in love? Wouldn't it, couldn't it, shouldn't |
| gt9730a@prism.gatech.edu  it be nice to be above, all of the pain, and frust-|
| If I cared, I'd be        ration of being alone. Nobody, nobody, nobody likes|
| apathetic!!               to be chilled to the bone. - 77's                  |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: superc@caravan.ksu.ksu.edu (Shawn E Chase)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Mastedon vocalists
Date: 23 Jul 1992 13:01:15 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: caravan.ksu.ksu.edu



I didn't know if you were talking about Jungle or LOFCAUDIO, so I'll put both
on here.
It's A Jungle Out There:
title track: Dave Robbins (of X-Sinner fame!)
John Elephante- Islands in the Sky, This Is The Day, Get Up
Dave Amato- Glorybound, Right Hand, Love That Will Survive
Perry Lee- Love Inhalation, Innocent Girl
Dave Pack- Guest on Shine On

LOFCAUDIO:
John Elephante- Holiest One, Run To The Water, It Is Done, Taken Down Below,

Dave Amato- Life On The Line (my favorite!), When It All Comes Down, People
	    Of This Time 
Either Tom Bowes or James Dean Longacre- Living For You, Thief In The Night


BTW, the vocalists listed for each song are the LEAD vocalists, so they are
not necessarily the ONLY vocalists on the song.
It doesn't specifically say on the sleeve what song each vocalist sings, so I'm only
going by John and Dave's distinctive voices and leaving the last two for Tom
and James, ok?
-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+Shawn E. Chase          +SUPERC@MATT.KSU.EDU + Offending, to some I am, 'cause+
+Dept Of Industrial Engg +SUPERC@KSUVM.KSU.EDU+ I tell the truth, my man       +
+Kansas State University +aka The Hood Of Good+ S.F.C.- "The Bomb"             +
From: markway1112@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Thanks for your help
Date: 27 Jul 92 09:24:52 -0500
Summary: G&P help
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

Hi!

Thanks to all with your very helpful information about the
Glory & Praise tapes.  My order is on its way... :)  Thanks
again- you all are very helpful and kind!

-Kathy
markway1112@iscsvax.uni.edu

Organization: Junior, Biology, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA