From: elascurn@daimi.aau.dk (Lars R{der Clausen)
Subject: Re: Sexuality & Religion
Keywords: good stuff maynard
Organization: DAIMI: Computer Science Department, Aarhus University, Denmark
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 10:57:39 GMT

karenm@yenta.alb.nm.us (Karen Millar) writes:


>Please excuse the fact that there are no > marks here; this did not
>go through the mailer... 
[...]
>Karen:
>"ONE" way to do this is through coupling in a 
>sexual fashion. Between kundalini and tantra yoga is a beginning of what
>I am actually talking about... 
>Response:
>This is unclear.  We are certainly speaking about sex.  You seem to be
>suggesting that there are more and less 'spiritual' means of engaging
>in sexual activity.

>Yup... that is what I meant... seems like there are more or less spiritual
>ways of doing/being to me... that is that one can do things with varying
>levels of spirituality... is this so strange? to you or anybody? Please 
>describe your problems with this....

My view is that ANYTHING done with consciousness (not as opposed to being
unconscious, but as being actively aware of it) is a meditation. Sex is one
of the more effective ways, if you can 'control' it: The sexual drive is one
of the most powerfull energies in our lifes, and if you can pull that forth
and use it spiritually, you can get *far*. Problem is firstly 'pulling it
forth', because most people either suppress it or let it out quickly, not hold
on to it, secondly 'using it spiritually', instead of doing it just for sex,
which can be difficult unless one has (or have had) a well-functioning sexlife.

[...]

>X: 
>I don't know what Toshi will have to say about this, but some things occurred
>to me. According to many spiritual traditions, the usual sorts of sexual
>desires and feelings are considered in a negative way. Why? Because they
>foster identification with the material body and ego in the heaviest possible
>way.   ...

According to some religions, sex is a very important part of spiritually. This
is especially seen in indian religions, tantra being the most active one on
that road.

>Karen:
>Here we come to the fine points of the definition of the different levels
>of the uses of sexuality. 
>Response:
>I agree with X's words above.  Karen's are beginning to strike me as somewhat
>ascetic.  'Uses of sexuality'?  This makes it sound as if sexuality isn't
>perfect just as it is.

>Sexuality does not in my opinion have to foster material/ego identification
>as he states... it does in many cases, but...  in response to the "uses"
>comment... I do not feel that I AM my body, and so its various parts in
>that sense have various uses... my mind has uses, and my body has uses.
>I dont find anyuthing wrong with sexuality per se.

If you are aware of yourself making love, it cannot foster 'material/ego
identification' no matter what you do. (Notice BTW that using a computer
normally fosters 'thought identification'. Unthink about that.) And there
is nothing wrong in having a great ego, as long as you don't identify with it.

>Karen:
>I think that rutting is not a positive thing
>in that it is not likely to help one in one's spiritual path; it is
>however a stress relief, and as such probably not negative in my view, 
>except in very mundane circumstances. :-)  
>Response:
>Note the continued separation between 'spiritual' and 'mundane'.  This is
>why I mentioned the heavy Christian bias, though I suppose some other
>traditions equally use such terms.  
>I wonder what 'mundane circumstances' would show 'rutting' to be a negative
>thing.  Whether it helps one along in one's 'spiritual path' depends what
>our attitude toward it is and how one sees one's partner (s) and oneself.

>I was trying to be "nice" but I see it didnt work... I meant the word
>rutting as being the kind of thing that some do: hit the bars and get 
>drunk and take somebody home and scratch an itch with them and then 
>forget them the next day... the kind of thing that lonely non-giving 
>people do. This is not very spiritual in my assessment.

I totally agree with Karen here. Sex with people you don't care much for is not
(IMVHO) worth much, and in my experience non-sex (french kissing, kitch etc)
with someone you really love can be an exhilarating experience. I think of
love/care as more than half of what's great in sex.

[...]

>Net hugs! 

To you too!

>Karen.

-Lars Clausen
-- 
Think of your family tonight.  Try to crawl home after the computer
crashes.
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4475 alt.alien.visitors:6994 sci.skeptic:17062