HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Rock Climbing... bungee jumping???
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:14:03 GMT

>Brett>  I have an awful lot of people ask me if and when I am going to go
>Brett> bungee jumping, in light of the fact that I rock climb.  I found this to
>Brett> be an unusual question and can't see why people relate the two.
>
>I'll admit it may be a little easier for me to stand on the edge of
>the "plank" without the height bothering me, and possibly "take the
>plunge" but I have refrained from doing it because to me bungee is
>akin to rappelling.  You are not in control, and you're totally
>ependent upon the anchors and equipment for your well-being.
>
>I dont care that much for rappelling, and do it primarily as a means
>of getting down from a climb.  I feel the same about bungee I guess.

I think that climbing partly derives from a need/desire/pleasure in
being in control under extreme and unnatural circumstances.  Bungee
jumping, sport rapping, rollercoaters rides and such appeal to a
desire to (safely) relinquish control.  I note that climbers often
enjoy river running which has some of the same requirement for
control under difficult circumstances.  (I recently took a non
climber her first short rafting trip -- She said something like "Now
I see why you say amusement parks are boring")
From: ummorea0@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Gene Moreau)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: black feet from Boreal Lasers
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:50:13 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Originator: ummorea0@pollux.cc.umanitoba.ca

I have a pair of Boreal Lasers, You know the black and pink slippers.  I
really like them, but I have this problem with them.  Every one else I
know who uses them has the same problem.  After about 15 mins of hard
climbing they turn your feet black.  After about 2 months of use they
don't seem to be letting up.  Couldn't Boreal have a non-sweat soluble dye??
It's also a bugger to get the dye off in the shower also. Any one of you
net.climbers happen to have an idea to stop getting black foot from them??


-- 
Gene Moreau                |"But he is a lawyer, the bottom feeders of human
University of Manitoba     | kindness."
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada |  - Scott Taylor, Sports writer for the Winnipeg
ummorea0@ccu.umanitoba.ca  |    Free Press.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon)
Subject: Re: nude swimming question
Keywords: penis, catfish, Mt. Roraima 
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 23:16:35 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.185328.26298@alw.nih.gov> pruss@helix.nih.gov (dmitry pruss) writes:

>Among ather funny things, he describes a small catfish called vandella
>(sp??) which is allegedly attracted by a smell of urine. He claims that the
>fish enters genitalia channels and can't go away anymore.
>
>Did anybody have a correct reference?
>Can anybody comment?
>
>	D

Why was this question posted here?  Is it a flying catfish that annoys nude
rock climbers?  I'd think nude swimmers would be more concerned about snapping
turtles and alligator gars than rude little fishes.

Cary Czichon
czichon@csc.ti.com
From: u6409886@ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Aussie Climbing 101
Date: 24 Jul 92 01:53:12 GMT
Organization: The University of Melbourne


A while back I asked about interest in notes about the climbing scene in
Australia. The number of replies I got encouraged me to get thinking about
the project. Below is a set of topics I would like to eventually cover. The
ones with a star (*) are ones I have limited knowledge of, and would
appreciate input from other (possibly ex-patriate) Australians. Any input
can be emailed to me, and I will try to edit together a coherent something.


Grading
Guide books
Magazines
Parks/Forests/wildlife
#s of climbers/impact
standards/ethics
bolting
classic areas - Arapiles (Vic)
                Grampians (Vic)
                Mt Buffalo (Vic)
                Blue Mountains (NSW) (*)
                Warrumbungles (NSW) (*)
                Moonarie (SA) (*)
                Mt Sterling (WA) (*)
                Others (*)

Sport climbing (*)
Other topics (*) 


Andrew Davies, Physics, Melbourne Uni.

u6409886@ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Public perceptions.
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 00:29:05 GMT

We should encourage the general public to believe that we Yosemite climbers
chaff our hands to get up the rock.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: mm@inf.rl.ac.uk (Mike Mead)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: gear question
Date: 31 Jul 92 12:17:03 GMT
Organization: Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, Informatics Department, U.K.

In article <10055@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal Lillywhite) writes:
>In article <1992Jul30.013657.17480@colorado.edu> ghill@dot.cs.colorado.edu (Gregory Hill) writes:
>
>>does anyone have any info on the relative stresses that are placed
>>on the carabiner used to clip pro and the carabiner used to clip the
>>rope into (e.g. the two carabiners are on a quick draw)? i have been
>
>Force will be essentially the same.  There will be more abrasion on
>the rope end as the rope slides through that biner.

Be aware that the top-end crab is clipped to something made of
sterner stuff than rope - metal.  I have seen (a photo of) a
crab cut half through by a small wire.

I once told this story to a bloke who used to economise by having tape
tied DIRECT into his wires.  He quickly changed his practices.

Mike
-- 
  Mike Mead                     Phone: +44 (0235) 44 6710 (FAX: x 5893)
  Informatics Department        JANET: mm@inf.rl.ac.uk
  Rutherford Appleton Lab.      UUCP:  {...!}mcsun!uknet!rlinf!mm
  Chilton, Didcot, Oxon, UK     ARPA:  mm%inf.rl.ac.uk@NSFnet-relay.ac.uk
From: byrnes@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Byrnes)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Cairns, Flags, and Fixed Wands
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:55:44 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

> 
> Eric you would love to go hiking with me.  I am notorious for accidently
> knocking over cairns.  My accidental nature has even found me going
> back down a trail when I miss one.  Just this last weekend I knocked
> over atleast a dozen cairns and down sized several others.  I was
> knocking over carins that were three to four feet high and 100 feet
> apart when you could plainly see were the trail is.
> 
> 
> Hey, you have my FULL SUPPORT.  I am also a proud cairn kicker.
> There are places for cairns, and I leave those cairns alone.
> However, I find the vast majority entirely unnecessary, and I'm
> talking about carins where no sane person could argue their need.
> I'm talking about huge cairns sitting next to already horendously
> deep, beaten trails where a blind person could follow. ...

Well I think you're both dickheads.  You obviously believe that everyone is
entitled to *your* opinion.

Many times I have been on trails in winter/early spring where those "deep,
beaten trails" are covered with snow.  And those "huge cairns" have the 
top one or two rocks showing.  How would *you* find the trail through the
cliff band without cairns?

I have also been down trails in the summer where visibility was about 30
feet in driving snow and rain and fog.  And the best marked trail is hard
to follow at night by headlamp.

There is also the environmental aspect to consider.  Many people in the
backcountry aren't as "enlightened" as you are.  A well marked trail keeps
them on the trail instead of wandering around on the fragile tundra and 
making lots of criss-crossed trails.

Don't let me catch you destroying cairns.

John
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: ghill@dot.cs.colorado.edu (Gregory Hill)
Subject: cairns
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 03:09:34 GMT

>In Iceland, paved roads are a rather recent luxury.  They just put the
>roads down in the same general paths followed for centuries by people
>moving between villages, so as you drive along the road, you can see
>cairns dotting the landscape, sticking out of the cooled-lava scenery.
>I thought this added something wonderful to the experience.

yes, i had a similar experience walking over flattop mountain here in
colorado during a heavy fog ... you could just see a line of cairns
stretching into the distance. at that time, i thought the cairns were
more like works of art than merely functional markers...i was not concerned
about losing my way, yet the cairns were nice. it reminded me of caving with
a group of about 15, and watching the line of torches winding through a big
cavern, which is also kind of neat to see. 

i do not think this sense of aesthetics has anything to do with what is
expressed below ...

>I find cairns on the tops of a
>mountain or along a trail saying I was here to be rather sad.  (Well
>unless it was a first ascent and you did not bring your camera to
>prove you were there first).  Why not put your initals in the trees as
>some insist on doing ?  It is the same thing.

in particular, what is this "unless it is a first ascent" stuff? does this
mean  that the first ascensionsist(s), as their reward, get to do what noone
else can (or should) ... i.e. perpetrate what they themselves would "ordinarily"
regard as defilement? why do you have to see only egotism in the desire to
feel a part of history ... even if only the history of a trail?

greg hill


Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern)
Subject: Climbs for short people
Organization: NCAR/UCAR
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 15:18:39 GMT

Cheryl (5'2") and I (5'4") did an interesting route yesterday afternoon -- 
the crux was a roof which seemed to require getting scrunched up underneath
(in order to gain the footholds), then reaching out, finding a lieback
edge around the corner, and leaning back, head tucked to clear the roof,
then reaching up to a good knob above.  

I went to the gym a lot this past winter with my friend Roy, who's 6'4",
and although usually his height was a blatant advantage, occasional roof
and cave problems were set up to deliberately make it harder for tall
people.  It occurred to me that perhaps this route we did might also
be harder for taller people -- the first natural route I've done where
being small is an advantage!  (The route I'm talking about is Twofers,
on Happy Hour Crag -- tall locals are welcome to concur or disagree).

Does anybody else have a route to recommend where being short is an
advantage?

-- 
/\        Ilana Stern DoD#009 | Whoever first said, "Things are seldom as they 
  \_][    ilana@ncar.ucar.edu | seem," was wrong.  Things are usually as they
      \_______________________| seem.  Otherwise, they wouldn't seem that way.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Cairns, Flags, and Fixed Wands
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:45:36 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Jul27.163236.12984@csc.ti.com> czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon) writes:
>
>Ron Kauk, et al. has been working on a 5.14
>route (the Front in Yosemite?) and has inconspicuously reinforced some of the
>more fragile holds with epoxy (injected behind the flake).

Herein lies the beginning of the unjustifiable acts.  Leave your glue
in the gym.

>A fellow named
>Bachar came by later, noticed the epoxy, broke the holds off the wall with a
>crowbar leaving enormous scars.  Bachar justifies his vandalism much the way
>you justify yours.  


-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
From: eric@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Hirst)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: climb sport lingo
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:51:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: milton.eric.712000270
Organization: University of Washington

A couple other sport climbing terms:

Low-angle - Anything less than 95 degrees.

Run-out - The bolts are more than 5 feet apart.

Alpine route - Anything out of earshot of the car radio.

Committing - Used to describe a climb with the rap anchor more than 80 feet
off the ground, or one which does not have quickdraws already in place.

But seriously, what does "aggro" mean?  Or am I a cooler person for not
knowing?

-Eric "Watched some Shelf Roadies top out on a 5.11 on City of Rocks' Window
Rock, then belay across the 1/4 acre flat summit to the rap station, over 
terrain which my mom could safely negotiate unroped on a pogo stick" Hirst

eric@milton.u.washington.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: ramin@negin.Berkeley.EDU (Ramin Modiri)
Subject: info request: Rock Climbing
Reply-To: ramin@negin.Berkeley.EDU (Ramin Modiri)
Organization: Tandem Computers
Distribution: ba
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 00:14:47 GMT

   I'm interested in taking up rock climbing.  I know very little about the
sport.  I'm also having some trouble getting my friends interested.  So, 
there are a couple of things that I'd like to ask:

1) I'd like to attract my friends interests so that they'll sign up for a
   class with me.  When I was in LA there was a place with quite a few
   small boulders (appx 10-20 ft) where rock climbers used to practice.  
   The boulders varied in difficulty, and some were easy enough that even
   people trying it for the first time could manage.  Is there a similar
   location anywhere in the bay area?

   Are there other ways to get them hooked?

2) Can someone point me to some locations (i.e. clubs/schools) where 
   rock climbing courses are offered?


Thank you,       emails: ramin@lark.warp.cs.cmu.edu
Ramin.                   modiri_ramin@tandem.com

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: wawood@ab29.larc.nasa.gov (William A. Wood)
Subject: Re: bungee
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:51:34 GMT

In article <jcn.712432427@keckiris>, jcn@rice.edu (Jeff C. Nichols) writes:
|> ghill@dot.cs.colorado.edu (Gregory Hill) writes:
|> 
|> >i heard bungee jumping actually has an interesting history of several
|> >hundred (thousand?) years (although perhaps someone was pulling my leg).
|> >anyway, what i heard is that in the pacific northwest, it has been a 
|> >long-standing native american adolescent initiation rite to tie vines around
|> >the ankles, and jump from trees ... does anyone else hve any similar
|> >(mis)information? how about the origin of the word "bungee"?
|> 
 I saw a National G./BBC/Wild Kingdom/etc. special on the "natives" who
 bungee jump with vines.  The natives in this program were black, had dark,
 curly hair, and lived in a warm environment so while I don't recall where
 they were from it was not the pacific northwest.  All the adult males would
 jump from a wooden tower from various heights up to 50-60 ft. on vines that
 they had harvested themselves.  The adolescent initiation rite was just that
 they were allowed to jump with the other adults.  The vines were thick and
 curled like the Burger King curly french fries (only larger and tougher)
 (or only larger).  A perfect jump was when your forehead just brushed the
 ground.  A perfect jump was shown and the victim appeared to be unconscious
 or in serious pain, although the narrator cheered and praised the man's skill.
 
 This particular program did not mention any other groups that jumped liked this
 but that in no way precludes that North American Indians could not have
 jumped as well.

 Bill Wood
From: andrew@alice.att.com (Andrew Hume)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: bungee
Summary: new guinea
Date: 30 Jul 92 04:03:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23355
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ



	it seems unwise to encourage this thread but the only
``authentic'' bungee jumping i know of is the land diving
practised by new guinea natives. the towers were 50-100ft.
the vines were more or less straight with effectively no elongation
(important as we'll see). the goal was to dive off the towers
with vines attached to ankles and have one's forehead brush the
ground. the point most observers elide is the shock absorber
at the tower's platform. the vines were attached to the end of a
hinged ramp. the ramp was supported by thin sticks that broke
under the impact of teh fall. nevertheless, this must have been
hard on the diver.
	i would not be surprised if this were practised elsewhere.
Note also the appeal of this; really spectacular and given a modest
amount of lore, almost safe.

			andrew hume
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: info request: Rock Climbing
Date: 25 Jul 92 01:34:38 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

In article <1992Jul24.001447.18395@tandem.com> ramin@negin.Berkeley.EDU
(Ramin Modiri) writes:
>   I'm interested in taking up rock climbing.  I know very little about the
>sport.  I'm also having some trouble getting my friends interested.
>
>1) I'd like to attract my friends interests so that they'll sign up for a
>   class with me.
>   Are there other ways to get them hooked?

Your friends probably want to live.                  They are smart.
You should possibly consider learning without them if you really want
to get into the activity.  You should have a good time, but realize that
everyone who does this activity is playing with fire (with a couple
of fatalities, our hats off to them).

Solo: One man falling alone
Roped party: Several men falling together

What ever you do, don't coerce your friends.  This isn't bungie jumping.

>   Is there a similar location anywhere in the bay area?

Sure.

>2) Can someone point me to some locations (i.e. clubs/schools) where 
>   rock climbing courses are offered?

REI? UCB?

>Thank you,       
>Ramin.

You're welcome.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  NOT on the Hackers 8.0 Steering Committee this year
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya

Solo: One man falling alone
Roped party: Several men falling together
		--Tom Patey, One Man's Mountain

"The technology must be considered as larger than the inanimate 
piece of hardware," said Felsenstein.  "The technology represents 
inanimate ways of *thinking*, objectified ways of thinking.  The 
myth we see in *Wargames* and things like that is definitely the 
triumph of the individual over the collective dis-spirit,  [The myth 
is] attempting to say that the conventional wisdom and common 
understandings must always be open to question.  It's not just an 
academic viewpoint.  It's a very fundamental point of, you might 
say, the survival of humanity, in a sense that you have people 
[merely] survive, but *humanity* is something that's a little more 
precious, a little more fragile.  So that to be able to defy a 
culture which states that 'Thou shalt not touch this,' and to defy 
that with one's own creative powers is ... the essence."
  The essence, of course, of the Hacker Ethic.
			--Hackers, Steven Levy
  [Key is to understand this in climbing.]
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry
From: scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn)
Subject: Re: Cairns, Flags, and Fixed Wands
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 23:27:24 GMT

fry@tara.harvard.edu (David Fry) writes:
: 
: I consider the cairns part of the environment and not a distraction.

Yeah, I really enjoyed the 5 cairns up on top of Monkey Face.  Wouldn't
want to get off-route on a 20'x20' flat platform on top of a pinnacle.

: In addition to
: marking the trail, they mark the people who were there beforehand.

I followed them, but kept going in circles...  Had to stop when I got
dizzy.

Do we really need to "mark" the people who were there beforehand?
If so, let's use orange spray paint to provide a better, easier-to-see
"mark".  If a mark is good, a more visible mark *must* be better!

--

Scott Linn
scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: re:Mythos
From: lkampf@desire.wright.edu
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:01:02 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

Aloha,
     In regard to the Mythos question, I've had a pair since they came out and
they are by far the best shoe I've ever had the pleasure to try on. They have
an extremely precise fit that toes into pockets like they lived there and 
friction like a dream. Dime edges? No problem. I've heard of problems with
excessive streatching and delamination, but i've never seen it happen to 
me or any other pair I've seen. I haven't had a chance to try Boreal yet,
but i'm putting my money on the Mythos.
                                        BUYBUYBUYBUYBUY!
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry
From: frankpit@eng.umd.edu (Bernard Adrian Frankpitt)
Subject: Re: Cairns, Flags, and Fixed Wands
Reply-To: frankpit@eng.umd.edu (Bernard Adrian Frankpitt)
Organization: College of Engineering, Maryversity of Uniland, College Park
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:34:08 GMT

In article <eric.712022536@milton>, eric@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Hirst) writes:
> (Excuse me if this has been covered before in r.b. -- if it has, I wasn't
> listening.)
> 			
>		"
>		"
>		"
>
> 
> Last weekend, I was headed up an open rocky slope from Upper Enchantment Basin
> to the summit of Little Annapurna.  Routefinding in this spot is extremely
> simple, and could be done in a whiteout with a compass by about anyone and
> without a compass by most.  To reach the summit from the well marked basin
> trail, go generally east and up (Class II).  To get back to the the basin
> trail, go west and down.  No vegetation, no steep snow, no route substantially
> easier or more difficult than the route 15 feet to either side of it.  No
> sudden dropoffs except east off the summit ridge.  No trail is marked on any
> map I know of.  The basin is approximately 13 miles and 7000 feet from the
> road for anyone without an ice ax or an attitude.  Accurate topos available
> to all for a modest fee. 
> 
> Anyway, up I went, along with Tim and Gordie, immensely enjoying the scenery
> as it grew more and more spectacular, and immensely enjoying the freedom of
> motion afforded by the open, rocky, trail-less terrain.  Although many have
> traipsed up this peak, there was absolutely no evidence of human activity,
> until. . . you guessed it.
> 
> Without pausing, I obliterated the cairn with a gentle kick,
>		
>		"
>		"
>		"
>
> So, was I nice, or was I naughty?
> 
> Eric Hirst
> eric@milton.u.washington.edu

You were nice Eric, I would have had no hesitation at kicking the
cairn maker over the edge with his cairns. Route finding is at least
half the fun in these situations.

Bernie
Xref: sparky rec.climbing:2603 rec.backcountry:5627
From: gdh@calmasd.Prime.COM (Gerald Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Cairns, Flags, and Fixed Wands
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:38:07 GMT
Followup-To: rec.climbing
Organization: Computervision, San Diego, CA

In article <1992Jul27.232724.4873@hpcvca.cv.hp.com> scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn) writes:
>fry@tara.harvard.edu (David Fry) writes:
>: I consider the cairns part of the environment and not a distraction.
>Do we really need to "mark" the people who were there beforehand?

One thing that has been overlooked in all of this discussion is
the fact that cairn building goes way back into pre-history.
There is some chance that the cairns being so arrogantly and
self-righteously kicked over may have been built hundreds or even
thousands of years ago.  Cairns originated at a time when it really
was important to mark that people had come that way before.

While I agree that adding to them now is inappropriate in almost
all instances, I think that existing cairns should be respected
as historical artifacts and left alone.


-- 
   /
  /	Jerry,	CalmaSD UNIX SysAdmin,	+1 619 587 3065
 /