HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: On accuracy and anderson
Keywords: In error?  *moi*?
Date: 3 Sep 92 20:36:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Sep3.203611.21362
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR

In article <1-kn_9_.jfh@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>In article <1992Sep02.000529.12479@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob 
>Sarver) writes:
>>
>>
>>/(mattm)
>>/And perhaps someone else had brought this to Mr. Anderson's attention
>>/as well; I don't remember apologizing for the observation.
>>
>>Let me get this straight:  anderson claims that, in an private email 
>>conversation with you, that you apologized to him for making this claim
>>(this, in spite of him trying to flame me for quoting unsubstantiatable
>>emails).
> 
>If you want to get permission from your private correspondents to post
>their mail, with their names attached, you can substantiate your claims. 
>
>>Now, however, you publicly state that you made no such apology.
>>
>>Does that make anderson a liar?
>
>Not necessarily.  It could be that Matt apologized and doesn't remember
>doing so, or said something that he didn't intend as an apology but that
>Jess read that way, or that Matt is the one who is lying. 
>
>Luckily, this question is easily resolved.  Matt can give Jess permission
>to quote any private email that Jess feels is relevant, and Jess can do so,
>and we can decide whether there was an apology.  
>
>
>-- 
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107


Does anyone else see a pattern here?

Bil Snodgrass
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Originator: elf@halcyon.com
Reply-To: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Organization: Pendor, UnLtd.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 07:58:17 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.180420.12812@microsoft.com>
     bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:

>In article <1992Aug15.221516.22953@nwnexus.WA.COM>
>     elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg) writes:

>>   There's nothing painful about "masculine" men.  There's nothing
>> special about being butch.

>Then why is there such a premium on avoiding butch behavior, and 
>downgrading masc. gays? 

   I don't beleive I've ever seen a premium here put on avoiding butch
behavior or on downgrading your so-called masculine gays.  What I have
seen is you and a number of soc.motss butting heads over your claim
that "feminine behavior" embarasses a major percentage of the gay
community because it is feminine.

   _I_ don't know what the latest Broadway musical is and I could care
less about Madonna; I'm still learning to appreciate Pearl Jam and
Alice in Chains.  My lover is much the same; but I have in a joking
manner called him 'girlfriend' once in a while.

   And your claim to be "perfectly normal" only shows how deep your
homophobia runs; how do you know what I or anyone else on this
newsgroup does in the privacy of our own homes?  I'm a lousy poker
player, anyway; even at a nickel ante I blew five bucks at last Sundays
game.

>And every one of these guys gets unmitigated shit pitched at
>him by the queens because the queens all think it's an act.  Jealousy
>is ugly.  

   "Jealousy!?"  No Bob, your guys are getting shit pitched BACK at
them for being homophobic; I attended the Seattle Men In Leather and
that crowd was full of the butchest, hairiest, most masculine men I
could possibly imagine.  These men were primo q---! and they mixed and
mingled with the queens and the drags and the nellys is if the entire
room were shoulder-deep in ForePlay.  Because they were gay, they were
proud to be gay, and they were willing to admit, honestly and
forthrightly, to a sense of brotherhood and belonging with every other
penis-owning faggot in the building.

   And until you stop hiding in your bearskin tower and join us, the
drags and the nellies and the proud butch men, we're going to point up
and laugh atcha...

         Elf !!!
-- 
Elf Sternberg    __   |     I have looked into the abyss, and the abyss
elf@halcyon.com  \/   | has looked into me.  Neither liked what we saw.
elf@polari.online.com |                              - Brother Theodore
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Shakers
Reply-To: shore@tc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:53:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.161933.26052@PacBell.COM>, rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes: 
> I'm surprised that no one has reminded Bob Sarver that all those
> nice, considerate, well-behaved Shakers are dead.

As I mentioned to Jack Hamilton, it certainly explains
which century Boob comes from.
-- 
"I would promptly inform any homosexual who would dare to proposition
me that my preference is fisting."  -- Theodore A. Kaldis

       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@aix.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: OR-9 text.
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 22:39:03 GMT

Actually, the subject should read COLORADO text. I never did get an actual 
copy of the text of whatever is Ball Measure 2 in Colorado sent  to me.
Could someone rectify the situation? 

Thank you...


For more info on the Oregon and Colorado situation look in /pub/QRD/qrd/rights
on nifty.andrew.cmu.edu.

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C., April 25 1993''
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
"Jane." --Lily Tomlin, when asked "Who's your family in LA?" 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Not necessarily Christian
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 17:58:14 GMT


In article <5001@news.duke.edu> John_Graves@cellbio.duke.edu
writes:
 
[credentials galore, amounting, it seems, virtually to a credo]

>Without a doubt I have much to learn.  

Humility might be a good starting place.

>I would not be doing an internship or studying at Duke if I
>thought I knew everything there was that needed to be known.
>But my "fitness" is not an issue.

Pride goeth before a fall.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Fingernail Polish (was Re: The Silent Majority (was: other stuff))
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 04:13:38 GMT

shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes:

>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

>>I mean
>>we have so many things we could talk about instead, like which
>>nail polish colours are going to be "in" this Fall! 

>Pearlized jewel tones, of course.

Nail polish? Feh. That's gone the way of lip gloss. The hot thing now
is shoulder-length polyester mittens.

>The most important thing about fashion is talking the talk.

The most important thing about fashion is frightening people with it.

--
John Dorrance  * Don't fuck with Ms. Congeniality *  thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

	Every jumbled pile of person has a thinking part that wonders
	     what the part that isn't thinking isn't thinking of
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@aix.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: A Short History ofDiscrimination in the Military
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 22:50:30 GMT

wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood) writes:

>buckmr@aix.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes a pretty damned good summary of
>a history of discrimination in the American military, but misses one
>*very* interesting case.
Actually there are a number of interesting cases that I did not mention. The
source of my brief history was the Orange County BLADE, a Gay Monthly 
published monthly in the heart of Republican Country.
If anyone has the details of the careers of Leonard Matlovitch or Perry 
Watkins I would be interested in incorporating that data into the history...

>1921:	Franklin Roosevelt is felled by polio and never walks again.
I was wondering when this happened...My grasp of US History is pretty fuzzy.
Was he already pretty prominent in politics at the time?
-- 
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
Barbara Bush: a chronologically gifted, differently interesting, domestic
incarceration surviving member of the mutant albino genetic-recessive global
minority.-- _QW_'s ``politically correct'' description of the First Lady.
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: I'm ready for my closeup, Mr. Archiver
Date: 27 Aug 92 20:38:29 GMT
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco

> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>> I can't wait to find out what
>> Sargon looks like--somewhere between the Terminator and Tinkerbelle,
>> I'd imagine.
>
>I think he's probably a dead ringer for Billie Burke.

Oooooh!  Arne, are you a *good* rhymes-with-rich
or a *bad* rhymes-with-rich? :-)
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: apm@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Andrew Merritt)
Subject: Re: Publicity
Organization: Hewlett-Packard NSG-PWD, UK.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.3 PL5
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 13:19:28 GMT

Matthew Melmon (mattm@Apple.COM) wrote:
: What are you squaking about?
: But what are you squaking about?
: What is Hollywood squaking about?  Family Values.  What is the Media
: squaking about?  Family Values.  What are the Democrats squaking 
: about?  Family Values.
: 
Umm, squaking?  What is the UK equivalent?  Is it a portmanteau word? 
Should I use it at parties?

Andrew  (always keen to have his vocabulary enlarged)
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: memorial wishes
Date: 26 Aug 1992 17:55:38 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Aug25.144955.23174@osf.org> 
coren@osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
> In article <l9ivj4INNejc@mizar.usc.edu>, 
> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> > In article <1992Aug24.145723.29273@osf.org> 
> > coren@osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
> > 
> > > [Oh, and if you have time, read _Middlemarch_ [...]
> > 
> > I think I'd rather die than read _Middlemarch_ again.
>
> Sigh. Arne, I think you and I had better not discuss literature with
> each other. 

If you're a big fan of the Victorians, then you're
probably right.  But I'd be perfectly civil were we
to discuss pre- or post-Victorian novelists.  

>             (I was beginning to think we shouldn't discuss artistic
> matters at all, but then you put "Nachtzauber" on your all-time list;
> there's obviously hope for you. :-))

You know, I could have put any number of things on my list,
but Hugo Wolf seemed most appropriate when I wrote it.  But
there are all sorts of things I love -- Duparc (Invitation au
voyage and, especially, Phydile); Mahler's Ruckert lieder 
(especially Ich bin der Welt abhanden gekommen); Falla's Seven
Popular Spanish Songs; Bellini arias (especially Ah non credea
mirarti) -- that I could have written, and would be equally
happy to know people might listen to.

Arne


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Subject: Re: Sept. 5, Motss Dinner, NYC
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 22:16:01 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.210357.22428@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>May I submit an agenda item?  I think ideal testing
>opportunities now exist for the model 28M and 33B
>restructuring p-ds.  I would like authorization to issue the
>boot codes for units Melmac and Sargon.  The test results
>may prove extremely useful in the east laster on.

Excellent.  I'll nice -20 that for immediate consideration.

Ry Schwark
ry@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tdbear@tandon.com (Tom Barrett)
Subject: Re: move to canada, eh?
Organization: Tandon Corporation, Moorpark, CA
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:39:54 GMT

In article <71802@apple.Apple.COM> mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>
>>I don't think it would make any difference.  The costs of AIDS not very
>>significant, overall.  A heart bypass, or a premature birth, can cost much
>>more than treatment for AIDS.  There are *lots* of diseases which are more
>>expensive than AIDS, and over a longer period of time. 
>
>(not sarcastic...)
>I don't know, Mr. Hamilton.  This is an awfully calm, reasoned response
>to a hot topic.  Why, you've even included some thoughtful content.

Huh? What was the sarcastic response to?  Jack said something
that is *very* true... especially considering the use of
hospices.  The HIVignorant keep bringing up the high cost of
AIDS, while they still stick/smoke/ingest drugs and clog their
system with fat which results in deformed babies and sick
adults.  AIDS is a disease which strikes quickly in comparison
with a few others that are "popular."  I believe that the
Advocate recently ran an article which compared a heart bypass
with typical AIDS care.

>(sarcastic...)
>Are you sure you're in the right group?  This *must* be a follow-up
>from someplace else.

I don't understand this one either, but since it says
"sarcastic" it can be ignored...


-- 
Tom Barrett (TDBear)    tdbear@tandon.com          voice: 805-378-6207
Tandon Corporation      609 Science Drive          Moorpark, CA  93021 
Sr. HW Design Engineer  "War is Peace, No is Yes, And We're All Free!" 
-=>NOTE:  The feed to tdbear@tandon.com may be interrupted in Sept.<=-
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: doug@cc.ysu.edu (Doug Sewell)
Subject: Re: "Behind the Hate in Oregon"
Organization: Bush in 92 ? NOT!
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 22:53:31 GMT

snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass) writes:
: 
: If the measure passes we will have a bad 3 or 4 years, but most political
: science people in the universities say that the law will not be up held
: in the Federal Courts.  But the appeals process through the courts will
: take time.  
: 
Don't be so sure.  The Reagan-Bush Supreme Court upheld confiscation
laws, Hardwick vs Bowers, and some others.  And if George Bush gets to
pick a few more justices, heaven knows what other laws that "everyone
knows should be unconstitutional" will stand.

--
Doug Sewell, Tech Support, Computer Center, Youngstown State University
doug@cc.ysu.edu	   doug@ysub.bitnet	<internet>!cc.ysu.edu!doug
Family Values: the sexist, racist, homophobic, classist, "Christian" values
of the 50's.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty)
Subject: Re: Relative stupidities
Organization: Auto-trol Technology Corporation -- Denver, Colorado
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 02:46:44 GMT

mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
: 
: Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to convey to someone who is
: whining what it is that they're doing that attracts that
: description.  I've tried in other newsgroups without success, and I
: invite soc.motss generally to offer a description of what makes a
: whine that might be useful in discouraging someone from doing it.
: 
Well, I can't define it, but I know it when I read it.


Kathy
From: joelp@cs.man.ac.uk (Joel Parthemore || Pharos Project)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Redefining Self (was a thread I won't get involved in)
Date: 25 Aug 92 11:07:42 GMT

mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:

    >joelp@cs.man.ac.uk (Joel Parthemore || Pharos Project) writes:
        > >I have in mind to be setting myself up a conceptual family of my
        > >own in these environs, to fill an important space that has never
        > >really been filled. I'd like to ask Mara to be my mother....

    >My goodness, I'm flattered.

    >I cannot say either yes or no, because we _are_ a conceptual family....

Yes I know, or I'm beginning to understand, the larger family here, and the
families within families intermixed with incestuous visiting cousins that is
soc.motss. But I also have the idea to create a mini-family structure of my
own here, using ideas that never quite seemed to work for me in my blood
family.

        > >Jess, would you be the younger brother I never had?

    >Does this mean that I get to be Jess's mother too?  Sounds like
    >Iolanthe, which, of course, is all about Fairies.

I don't think so, necessarily.  Under this *new* definition of family, I'm the
other people's brother or son (or, heavens, father) and they're my brothers,
sisters, parents or whatever.  But they're not each other's, unless they
choose to be.

    >...or thousands of conceptual families all at once, so that a person
    >might have a conceptual brother married to his or her conceptual
    >father, whose conceptual sister's nephew-by-marriage is also the
    >sister's own conceptual grandson.

I like tangled family hierarchies.  (So what if it makes havoc for future
generations of soc.motss geneaeologists.)

> >Joel,
> >        to whom the answer is important, and hoping this is in order

>Mara (pretending not to have noticed that Sim and John are the older
>brothers, and using friendly parens because Arnold thinks square
>brackets are angry)

Hmpf.  And why *shouldn't* they be older brothers?

Joel,
        wondering who or what ``Iolanthe'' is

>  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
   hecateae@cs.man.ac.uk    Home is the place where, when you go there, they
                            have to take you in.
From: markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: OCA update: voter's pamphlet
Date: 2 Sep 92 22:13:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.42313
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

In article <x=xykp@rpi.edu> buckmr@vccsouth21.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>markm@ogicse.cse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:
>
>
>
>>Well, this last Tuesday was the deadline for submitting arguments about
>>measures.  Word is that the OCA submitted 11 arguments for (they claimed
>>that they had 25, but refrained from submitting too much).  The arguments
>>against Measure 9 totaled to over 40.  You will be happy to know that
>>the pdx-motss group banded together and submitted two signed arguments
>>against Measure 9 (a possible new meaning to 'coming out' :-).
>So do all the submitted arguments get included in the voter's guide?
>[She with the most gets the most in?]

Yes, if you have $300 or 1000 signatures and your statement isn't fiction
(for some definition of fiction), then you get your argument into the
voters pamphlet.  I actually do have in front of me all of the arguments.
There are 9 for and 55 against.  I will try to get them scanned in and
then edited (the copies aren't too good and the fonts are sometimes weird
as well as having hand written changes).  Once they are online, I will
look at putting them into the QRD archive.

At least my fingers will be svelte.

--mark
--
Mark Morrissey           One Hatred to rule them all.  One Hatred to find them.
markm@cse.ogi.edu        One Hatred to bring them all and in the darkness bind
                         them.  In the land of Bigotry where the Shadows lie.
From: balistik@big-brother.nevada.edu (Shawn Hicks)
Subject: Folsom ST Fair
Organization: Not yet, but we're working on it...
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 03:10:01 GMT


Chris (clc@nevada) and I are trying to pull together a trip to
the fair.  We can afford the plane tickets, but cannot affort
the $115 a night hotel fees.  Do any SF.motssers know of a
hotel with affordable (poor student) rooms that's in walking
distance of the festivities?  Can we beg for floor space?

We're both Folsom Virgins and need guidance.  :)


Shawn
From: mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Publicity
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:15:46 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

pauli@sgi.com (Paul Isaacs) writes:

>The scary part is the following scenario:

>[1] They back off on the anti-GLB stuff.
>[2] They attack congress, Clinton, and somehow manage to win the
>    election.
>[3] They claim that they have a mandate to be anti-GLB, because it
>    was in their platform.  (even though it didn't help them win)

Numbers [1] and [2] are almost given a given.  Number [3] is probably
a bit more paranoia than reality.  People, it's nice to think we're
fearsome, terror causing monstrosities, but the 'straight' community
does not spend it's every waking hour worrying about 'them damn
homosexuals.'  In fact, it couldn't  care less about our existence.  The
anti-GLB stuff is a smokescreen.  Every election, there's a *them* -
and we're *them* this year. The Body Politic has decided to let
minorities (primarily Blacks) off the hook for a change.  The new
demographics are making it increasingly difficult to be a racist
politician and win (it can, however, be done - a la Helms).  But if -
and it is a big if this time - if Bush is relected, persecuting the
GLB community is not going to have an agenda item on the alternate
schedule for an intern to an intern to an intern in the White House.
The past of Presidential politics shows the economy to be the one
and *only* deciding issue in elections.  The flippy-floppy state of
our current economy means the Republicans have to try everything
they can, wave every red flag they can think of, to win.  That they
are waving a red flag called  'The Homosexual Agenda' does *not*
mean they give to craps about it - it means they *think* it will
work well as a distraction.

Matthew Melmon
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Snaps
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:02:33 GMT

In article <mcmelmon-240892123058@mcmelmon.apple.com> mcmelmon@aruba.apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>Which makes me ten years younger than Mdme. Adolphson.

Have you met Sargon the Butch?  Do you like smoking cigars and playing
poker with the "boys"?

>Such a pity it had to be this dweeb who responded to my post in kind.  I
>was so hoping Arne would do it.  I was looking forward to a good cat-fight. 

That's not the phrase which comes to my mind.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: drp@dosbears.UUCP (David R. Preston)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Folsom ST Fair
Date: 1 Sep 92 23:35:43 GMT
Reply-To: drp@dosbears.uucp
Organization: DosBears

Steve Dyer writes:
>
>Dim Sum restaurants have the advantage of enormous seating arrangements
>at least.  I'd be game for anything, of course. :-)
>
>I don't think there's a place which serves peanut butter and jelly sammiches
>AND has room for 40+ leatherfolk. :-)

According to mail from Brian sent on 8/15 to the ba.motss.cultural.elite
mailing list:

	Well, I'm outta here and on my way to Europe for to work for a while
	so GatLB is going on a little vacation.  We'll do something when I
	return .. probably around the time of the Folsom Street Fair.

So, assuming Brian can pry himself away from the charms of Amsterdam,
there will be a dim sum.

BTW, Steve, I bought some fresh whole squid yesterday and cleaned them 
myself. Shall I said a GIF?

--
         David R. Preston   drp@dosbears.uucp dosbears@netcom.com
              Information gladly given but safety requires
               the avoidance of unnecessary conversation.
            D. R. Preston 584 Castro St. #614 SF CA 94114 USA