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Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:34:02 -0500
From:         AIRBORNE THE FIREMAN IS BACK <CDUNBAR@UNTVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: To all Fire Fighters

Darryl,

I don't know what the laws are for your state, but down here in Texas, if you
were to drive down in Galveston heading towards Pelican Island near the
Houston Ship Channel, you would see a HUGE outdoor storage area the size of
5 or 6 large cargo ships...  a sulpher storage area, that is.

You probably want to call the US DOT, US Department of the Interior, your
state Parks and Wildlife Department, your state's Department of Public
Safety/DOT, or some other governmental organization which deals in such areas.

I hope that helped you out a little.

Christophe
From: Mike.Ulrich@f16.n234.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Ulrich)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: PROFESSIONAL LECTURERS
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 09:02:53 -0800

 >    If you would, and if it's feasible,  let me know where this event

 > is going to take place.  I know some people from here in the 

West Ohio Paramedic/Nurses Alliance '93 Spring Trauma Symposium, April
17 & 18 at the Civic Center in Lima, Ohio.  The Civic Center is located
in downtown Lima at the corner of Main & Market (the two main N-S and
E-W) streets in Lima.  E-Mail your address to either me or Ron or to
WCOPNA PO Box 1662 Lima, OH  45802-1662 and we will put you on the
mailing list for information when we get it printed up.


 * Origin: The Black Hole BBS * 419-228-7236 (1:234/16)

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:33:00 EST
From:         "Paul.Haynes" <21798PAH@MSU.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Working??

As far as I know things are working.  I am not sure what you mean by a BBS.
From: Darrin.Culver@f53.n272.z1.fidonet.org (Darrin Culver)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: WHAT IS POLICY FOR DR
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:47:00 -0800

AM>I feel that
AM>(whether or not we should be able to break traffic laws) there should
be a
AM>law REQUIRING other drivers to PULL OVER and let us pass.

        Hey you stay on that SoapBox as long as you Want to! I agree
        with you 100%. In fact it is nice to hear someone who is not
        against the use of lights on Personal vehicals here in this
        echo.


AM>I can't tell you
AM>how much it annoys me to get behind someone with my blue light on
(and VERY
AM>visable) and have them actually SLOW DOWN!
AM>It's people like this that make me HOPE that it is THEIR house
AM>burning down, or their relative in Cardiac
AM>arrest. (As bad as this sounds and feels, sometimes its true)

        I can definitely understand the feeling. I have thought it a
few
        times. The one comfort in it is that it isn't only for Blue
        Lights they defy red's and sirens too. I have been in the
        Ambulance with Red Lights, White lights, strobes, Wig-Wag's and
        a Penetrator going full blast alternating between Wail, Yelp &
        Phasers. This person saw us, we SAW HER SEE US IN HER MIRROR,
        and she still wouldn't get out of the way. There is a law for
        that.

AM>Well, I think I'll step down off my soapbox for now.

        Like I said, stay their as long as you want.

AM>Mahopac Falls VFD
AM>Mahopac Falls, New York (Putnam County)

        Howdy Neighbor <sorta>. I'm with J.H.K. in Dover Plains,
        Dutchess County.


                                                        Later;

                                                        Baby Huey


 * OLX 2.1 TD * Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic


 * Origin: BEAR HEAVEN BBS (914) 677-6948 MILLBROOK NY (1:272/53)
From: George.Vaisey@f237.n260.z1.fidonet.org (George Vaisey)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Thanks!!
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 15:15:00 -0800

 Dwayne,
        Thank you for your reply, and time taken to help me out.  It is
really appreciated.


               George Vaisey

 * Origin: PARADISE, BBS -Rochester, NY- (716) 621-7637 (1:260/237)
From: Walt.Young@f710.n374.z1.fidonet.org (Walt Young)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Volunteer vs. paid
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 10:28:00 -0800

 DP>I also find this statement highly offensive, being a paid
firefighter and
 DP>a good union member (Local 1619) I think its high time the
volunteers get
 DP>off there high hourse, and start to look around, wake up, it's the
90's...
 
 DP>No matter what side of the fence you are on, there are going to be
some
 DP>bad
 DP>apples, but for the most part you get great care, weather you get a
pay
 DP>check for it or not.
 
 
 Gee....this reminds me of the old saying....If you are not part of the
 Solution then you must be part of the Problem.  It would seem
 that if everyone was really looking to solve it...why don't the
 paid and volunteers get together, work out the
 mis-perceptions/problems/etc and educate each other and work
 together.  Education/Knowledge/Experience should be the criteria
 here and I think everyone is using the Paid/Non-Paid nomer as an
 excuse to bash the other side.  God knows, in a firefighting
 situation you have to rely on each other or you might get killed.
 With your attitude above, I'd hate to have to be a volunteer and
 have you next to me and depend on you to possibly save my life in
 a sudden cave in.  Be about the same difference if we were in the
 same foxhole in combat.  I'd be scaird to death having you next
 to me.
 
 Hate to say it but I find no one gets on their high horse more
 than Non-Smokers and Union Members.   Where to me Unionism is
 just another Welfare Program.  (Union bennies cost me higher
 prices for products and Welfare bennies cost me more taxes).
 
 See...it's easy to be offensive.  It's not easy to promote
 understanding.
 
 
 DP>......... Lets just drop the subject, becouse it
 DP>may start to get out of had, the topic alone, volunteer vs. paid,
just turns
 DP>my guts!
 
 I agree because I suspect you are not ready to discuss and solve
 problems...but are ready for a fight and must maintain your ego
 to prove you are right.   Not to me...to those volunteers.  And I
 say the same thing to them!  Both groups need to get the chips
 off their shoulders...then you just might see a group of
 outstanding firefighters and never know whether they are paid or
 not!!
 
 Personally, I prefer my favorite tagline...:
 
 Professionalism is a State of Mind....Not a Paycheck!
 
 IMHO of course.
 
    Walt
 
  * SLMR 2.1a * A Closed Mind doesn't need Drugs.  It's already Wasted.


 * Origin: REACT BBS on The Space Coast, Melbourne FL 407-255-9948
(1:374/710)

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:44:42 PST
From:         dcrape@CLN.ETC.BC.CA
Subject:      Hello I am new

Hello my name is Darryl Crape and I live in Fort Nelson B.C.  I just signed
up for this because I am kind of thinking of becomeing a fire fighter when
I graguate from high school.  If there is anyone that could tell me more
about the net please write me and let me know what it is all about.  Talk
to you later.
==========================
        Darryl Crape Teacher Assistant
        Fort Nelson Secondary School
        Voice (604)-774-6958
        dcrape@cln.etc.bc.ca
==========================
From: Ron.Brown@f16.n234.z1.fidonet.org (Ron Brown)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: PROFESSIONAL LECTURERS
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 15:42:43 -0800

Bob     Thanks for respoonding.  This April 17, 18, 1993 will be our 7th
Annual Trauma Sysposium.  It will be held at the Veterans Memorial Civic
Center here in Lima, Oh.  You may be interested to note that responses
from all over the State of Ohio is positive, and many colleagues tell me
that ours is the best in this part of the country!  If you wish to send
me communication, I will certainly place your name on the mail list to
receive such information.  Further, it would behoove you to consider
early if your are interested, as last year we did (unfortunately) close
registration early because of space limitations.
   You may contact me at P.O. BOX 1662, Lima Ohio 45802 or call
(419)224-8828 to leave a message on the machine.
        By the way, a lot of our members are from the Celina area, and I
happen to have some friends from that area (they also attend the show).
                see ya
                        Ron A. Brown NR EMT P
                        President
                a/Nurses Alliance

 * Origin: The Black Hole BBS * 419-228-7236 (1:234/16)
From: wday@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: OSHA regs. A question
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:43:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: vaxb.1992Nov18.094349.1
Organization: University of North Texas

In article <1992Nov17.140632.178@gems.vcu.edu>, langford@gems.vcu.edu writes:

> In article <1992Nov11.022053.1@cc.curtin.edu.au>, zrepachol@cc.curtin.edu.au writes:
>> 
>> Do the [OSHA] regs cover non-employies as well? ie volenteer FF, EMTs etc?
>> 
>> ~Paul
>> 
> Well, I don't have a legal ruling from a court, but the official stance of my
> volunteer rescue squad, the area EMS council, and the Va. Association of 
> Vol. Rescue Squads, is that volunteers are NOT required to obey OHSA
> regulations, at least not in Virginia.  However, at my squad, we are adopting 
> many of the rules either on our own initiative, or because the Richmond
> Ambulance Authority requires it within the city, and that includes us.  
> 
> I admit, though, that I don't know much about the offical rules and
> recommendations.  All I really know comes from our SOPs, which are purportedly
> based on OHSA rules.

Though obviously not legal advice (standard disclaimer applies, here), but
based on what I've learned in studying the OSHA rules&regs in our classes,
your privately owned rescue squad may not be covered under OSHA rules, but
the chances are quite good that you're covered under one or more STATE rules
that often parallel or surpass the requirements that OSHA has laid down.
Ditto a local jurisdiction, such as the Richmond Ambulance Authority... they
can impose the same type of rules on you just as easily.

A phone call to your local OSHA office can probably tell you your group's
status re: compliance requirements, and since OSHA folks are usually well
aware of state and local laws, can usually point you in the right direction
to find info on that front, as well.

Officers of an organization should be well aware of the rules&regs, since they
can sometimes be held liable, personally, for violations of various local,
state and federal laws.  Practice safe organizing! 

 -------------------------
  Wayne Day     Univ of North Texas Institute of Em. Admin & Disaster Planning
   WDAY@unt.edu      or       76703.376@CompuServe.Com
 -------------------------
From: John.Linko@f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (John Linko)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: fire department monopoly
Date: 21 Nov 92 01:31:01 GMT

Your first paragraph about the fire dept getting into transporting pts.

BECAUSE of a budget crisis....that doesn't sound quite right, unless 
it's LifeFleet's budget crisis.

My personal opinion on the issue is that EMS belongs with the public 
safety sector of government. I also feel that no EMS entity, public or 
private, should engage in non-emergency transports if they are 
responsible for providing first-line emergency service to any municipal

entity. If LifeFleet is like other private providers, they receive the 
bulk of their revenue from third-party insurance reimbursement (mostly 
Medicare), and charge the local government little or nothing, aside from

some who offer subscription or memberships to the public at large.

What cracks me up about some of these private providers is that they 
advertise to local government and the public that they receive NO TAX 
MONEY or govt subsidy for their service. My reply is this--what is 
medicare reimbursement if not an indirect federal tax subsidy? Just 
because they call it federally-subsidized health insurance doesn't mean

it's not a federal subsidy.

Since my knowledge of your situation is limited to your post, all I can

say is that if the public safety sector feels it is necessary to take 
EMS from a private agency I must agree with the move, unless it is 
motivated purely by politics. I feel that EMS, as an EQUAL partner in 
the public safety system, needs to be under the control of the public 
sector and funded by local public safety dollars. While I sympathize 
with those who may lose their jobs over this, I can only think that if

LifeFleet, in the eyes of the public, is doing a competent job, then 
they have nothing to worry about.

BTW, has anyone ever thought of a public/private partnership, similar to

Salt Lake City? The FD responds the closest BLS or ALS engine, and the 
private transports the patient with the FD medics if necessary. This 
might prove to be a workable compromise. JL


 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26.0)
From: Kevin.Agard@f94.n343.z1.fidonet.org (Kevin Agard)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: BUS ACCIDENT.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 18:26:00 -0800

BS>>John,  Could I impose on you for a $0.29 donation in the form of a
copy of
  >>your waiver for patients who insist on going to hospitals where
diversion
  >>has been requested?

Why would you need a waiver? Diversions are only a request on the part
on the hospital and you are under no obligation to honor them. If you
have a patient who needs hospitalization but will only go to a certain
hospital and it a choice between that hospital and an RMA/AMA.. Take
thme to that hospital. The ER staff will get over it AND they have to
provide appropriate care.

If you are overly concerned about it you can make a notation in the
comments section of the ARC and have the patient initial it.


Regards,

KMA

FidoNet : 1:2604/111
CServe  : 71035,2365
Prodigy : PMBN50A
Internet: kevin.agard@f111.n2604.z1.fidonet.org
          71035.2365@compuserve.com

 * QMPro 1.0 41-4546 * Congress - America's only Native Criminal Class


 * Origin: Deredain's Realm BBS - Home of NJ EMT & Paramdedic Assoc.
From: Joe.Nicholson@f123.n202.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Nicholson)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Short, personal, annoying, space eating, time consuming messages
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 20:09:21 -0800

     *** You thus spoke:

jp> guys should be a little more considerate.  Please realize that
jp> these messages come through with about 20 lines of header and
jp> 3 lines of text, and get


That's a problem in your system, not FidoNet.  We get the same
garbage generated in messages gating into FidoNet.  6 or 8 intro
lines and up to 12 lines of signitures.

And we're courteous enough to follow echo rules about posting full
names.  We don't hide behind an alias.

Until you clean up your act, don't throw stones at glass houses.



 * Origin: GENERAL ALARM/MALTESE CROSS - SAN DIEGO, CA (1:202/123)
From: Ralph Sims <ralphs@remote.halcyon.com>
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: Used CD Rom Disk's For Sale
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 22:17:04 PST
Organization: Halcyon's Remote

Donald.Poole@f800.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Donald Poole) writes:

> I have the following CD Rom disks for sale, the price listed is a FIRM 
> price, some of these disks have not even been used. So have been used
> here on the bbs, some have been used for myself.

Please limit the occasional forsale items to those which can be
construed to be fire/medical/etc. related.  This is not the forsale
echo.
From: Stephen.Stone@f34.n289.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Stone)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: PHOOGRAPERS ON SCENE.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 07:07:32 -0800

Come on now.....
Let's see, it's acceptable for members of the press to be in front line
battle units, it's acceptable for the press to be in the middle of
riots, it's acceptable for the press to ride with the cops, but it's not
acceptable for them to be on our scenes?  "For THEIR protection"?
Neighbor, you need to reevaluate your dealings with your local press. 
THEY CAN make or break you and your department.
Doesn't it seem kinda silly to feud with someone who buys ink in barrels
and tape by the mile?

 * Origin: Holy Bytes, it's The Batboard TBBS - (314) 446-0475 
(1:289/34)
From: Eddie.Ferguson@f709.n7301.z8.fidonet.org (Eddie Ferguson)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Drug Testing
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:44:00 -0800

 >  EF>Our department requires a physical and drug test for all new
volunteers
 >  EF>(as for our paid members). Then, we pay for random drug screens
for
 >  EF>other members. Our physical fitness is built into our training
program,
 >  EF>though no specific test is required for new members.
 >         Can you tell me if this program has been
 > implemented since you became a member with the dept.?
 > If so can you tell me how it was implemented and what
 > SOP's do you have concerning the physical fitness and
 > drug testing.

Yes, it started about 2 years ago (I've been with the department almost
11 years). Well, as I mentioned, we don't have a specific SOP on the
physical fitness (though we probably will have soon). Right now, we are
basically following the general guidelines of the NPFA 1500 (I can ask
our training officer if you want/need the specifics of it...I don't have
it offhand). The drug screen does have a SOP and I will get a copy of it
(we are in the process of revamping ALL of our SOPs into new and more
organized formats...that's why I can't quote these SOPs right now). But,
I will try and find them and will try to mail/fax them to you if you'd
like.

            Eddie

 * Origin: Peachtree City Fire and Rescue 404-487-1376 (8:7301/709)

Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
From: af905@yfn.ysu.edu (Ed Shanks)
Subject: Re: volunteers
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:16:07 GMT


George Puglisi of Hampton Bays (LI) NY Fire Dept. Ladder 7-5-3
(Driver) makes some very good points. Like I said in an earlier
post, I don't want to wear body armor under my turnout gear.
Even if we mailed tickets to people after the fact, we'd still
lose public favor, and with the politicians cutting FD budgets
in spite of an increase in the number of fires, we don't need
the bad press. 
Stay in the shade!

-- 
       Ed Shanks      af905@yfn.ysu.edu
       Sr. Firefighter (and lots of other titles, as well!)
       Boardman Fire Dept.    Boardman, Ohio
       "It's not just an adventure, its a job!"
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:11:01 PST
From:         dcrape@CLN.ETC.BC.CA
Subject:      To all Fire Fighters

Does anyone out there know anything about the outdoor storage of sulpher
and any fire hazards that can become of it.  There is a natural gas
scrubbing plant that takes the sulphur out of the natural gas and just
dumps it out on the ground.  They want to shut it down and just put it all
into outdoor storage blocks.  It is right near a forest and the fire chief
wants to know if there are any regulations about doing this. He got a book
to check it out and he said that it didn't answer any of the questions that
he had.  If you have any info please write to me and tell it.

E-Mail-  dcrape@cln.etc.bc.ca
==========================
        Darryl Crape Teacher Assistant
        Fort Nelson Secondary School
        Voice (604)-774-6958
        dcrape@cln.etc.bc.ca
==========================
From: Andrew.Mcmillin@f2.n157.z1.fidonet.org (Andrew Mcmillin)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Foreign language trans.
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 17:09:00 -0800

Greetings:
I am new to this echo and am not involved in fire fighting.  I have
created a program that acts as an ' electronic phrase book', complete
with the foreign phrase being pronounced.  I believe that there might be
applications in hospital and / or EMS work.  I am interrested in any
feedback that anyone interested could provide.  I am also available via
voice (answering machine) at (216) 382-8523.  My objective is to have a
program that will provide an immediate ability to translate a specific
phrase (such as: Are you injured? or Are you allergic to any medications
?) into ANY language.  The translated phrase is then displayed on
screen, in whatever script is appropriate.  At the same time the phrase
can be 'pronounced' by the computer so there is no guessing as to how a
phonetic version should be pronounced.  Any feedback will be most
approeciated.
                                A. McMillin


 * Origin: HelpNet For the Impaired - (216)-356-1872  (1:157/2)
From: Barbara.Mezzanini@f7.n2609.z1.fidonet.org (Barbara Mezzanini)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: recerts.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 11:20:00 -0800

 BM>   have time and money restrictions. Does the squad reimburse
 BM>   for any training?

 DC> Yes they do. Kinda. They reinburse you for the cost of the
 DC> course books. But only after the class is over and you have

   The city FD started out paying for the course and books,
   then they started, which I think was a good idea, having
   us pay for the course and books, and IF we completed and
   passed the course, we were reimbursed. Prior to this
   change, a lot of guys would start, and then quit. We used
   to even have all our own instructors, it was great taking
   the course right at the firehouse, but the city stiffed
   them regarding pay, so they don't do it anymore. A lot of
   work, time, and energy go into putting a course together.

   At least you get the books $$$, hmm.. not the course $$$ ?

 DC> NO! I'll be damned if their gonna push me out. They may push
 DC> me back a little but I'll never quit.

   That's the spirit <g>!  Take care... *Barb*



... cyberpunk (sy'ber punk) n. -- a computer with an attitude...
 * Origin: PowerLine 315-865-4070 Marcy NY (1:2609/7.0)
From: Tom.Foreman@p18.f211.n270.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Foreman)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: message
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:18:40 -0800

Did you receive the message I sent Nov 19,1992?
If not let me know..

 * Origin: Middletown BBS's Point # 18  (1:270/211.18)
From: Aram.Bissonnette@f1.n327.z1.fidonet.org (Aram Bissonnette)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: RE: Hazard lights on emergenc
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:46:41 -0800

Rick.  As a local fireman/mrt in your area I think the need for lights
sirens and Air horns are more than nessary.  As for private cars
responding to an alarm my department as strick rules for responding.
   
Follow all traffic laws a blue light in CT is only a courtsy light
although most people who do see you coming will let you pass.

                     ------------------------------------

 * Origin: .\\ystical .\\adrigal  -=HST=-  Industrial Strength!
(1:327/1.0)
From: Blake.Bowers@f33.n116.z1.fidonet.org (Blake Bowers)
Newsgroups: misc.emerg-services
Subject: Re: hazard lights on emer
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:31:38 -0800

 -=> Quoting Joe Noel to Blake Bowers <=-

 > My worry has always been that we are getting so much equpment on the
 > rigs,
 > that we may be confusing the drivers of POV's.  Much like using the

 JN> As for the phasar, have you ever actually listened to the phaser
mode
 JN> of an emergency vehicle while approaching? SOmetime listen to one
as it
I agree, the phaser does seem to be not quite as piercing also. 
  
  One of the "Flywheels" in the area has built up a side job modifying
sirens, seems he adds 2 three position switches, which adds 2 diffenent
pitches to each mode, giving a siren 12 different tones, or modes.,
Seems real silly to me, sounds like the carnival coming down the road.

... Punishment should be cruel and unusual, it works better.
 * Origin: The ACE of Spades BBS (1:116/33)

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU