Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Re: Sex and Horrorforward
From: user@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 00:18:16 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City


In article <1992Aug21.071230.5144@newssrv.edvz.univie.ac.at>, J1300DAF@vm.univie.ac.at writes:
> ------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
> Path: news.univie.ac.at!paladin.american.edu!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.n
> From: frantz@bvc.edu
> Newsgroups: alt.horror
> Subject: Re: Sex and Horror
> Message-ID: <1992Aug20.124808.1830@bvc.edu>
> Date: 20 Aug 92 12:48:08 CDT
> References: <1992Aug20.101846.638@newssrv.edvz.univie.ac.at>
> Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA
> Lines: 126
> 
> In article <1992Aug20.101846.638@newssrv.edvz.univie.ac.at>, J1300DAF@vm.univie.
>> ------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
>> Path: news.univie.ac.at!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!mips!sdd.hp.com!u
>> From: frantz@bvc.edu
>> Newsgroups: alt.horror
>> Subject: Re: Sex and Horror
>> Message-ID: <1992Aug19.125424.1829@bvc.edu>
>> Date: 19 Aug 92 12:54:24 CDT
>> References: <1992Aug19.092319.23281@newssrv.edvz.univie.ac.at>
>> Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA
>> Lines: 78
>>
>> In article <1992Aug19.092319.23281@newssrv.edvz.univie.ac.at>, J1300DAF@vm.uni
>>>
> D
>>> on Barker and his use of sex. It has been said, that he uses to
>>> much sex (or features of deviant sex) in his works. In fact, by
>>> doing so, he follows a tradition  of the genre. Horror is IMO
>>> based on the fear of sex and the fear of death. Much of the classic
>>> stuff is really very openly about sex: the vampire is a sexual
>>> fantasy (think of Stoker's description of the 3 vampire ladies),
>>> an other example is the topic of the split-personality (werewolf,
>>> Jeckyll/Hyde), living out his sexual needs and therefore to be
>>> punished. The same appears in some modern filoms (e.g. Halloween,
>>> Friday the 13th), here are the teenagers to be punished (for having
>>> sex). I don't want to start a discussion on Freud (libido and
>>> thanatos and so on ...), but this concept fits perfectly.
>>>
>>> Barker seems to be afraid of sex, and thats why he writes about it.
>>> Why he often uses deviant forms of sexuality, is IMO clear: the
>>> tolerance level of society has changed. Sexual taboos, which where
>>> frightening at Stoker's time (sexual relationships without formal
>>> binding, homosexuality), have lost their terrifying power. So Barker
>>> uses harder stuff, but not to exploit them in a cheap way. I think
>>> he only wants to show that there are forms of sexuality beyond our
>>> "normal" understanding ... and he wants to show how frightening sex can
>>> be. The combination of sex and hurt seems to be his major obsession,
>>> and he uses it in a very exciting way in his work ... perhaps to get
>>> rid of that obsession. When I was reading the Books of Blood, I felt
>>> sometimes, that here is a person, who uses writing as a kind of therapy.
>>>
>>> King also seems to be afraid of sex, that's why he doesn't write
>>> about it. Obviously he is unable to write about that matter in an
>>> open way, but I got the impression that is is always there. Many of his
>>> figures are sexually frustrated. He said somewhere in an interview,
>>> that one thing he is really afraid of, is the vagina dentata, so that
>>> fits into the picture. King's main topic are the fears of children,
>>> and one the fears of children is the fear of sex. I liked this theory
>>> about the gang sex scene in IT, stating that the children used sex
>>> to strengthen their bond. But think of an other possibility: IT
>>> represents the sum of their childhood fears (isolation, division
>>> from their parents and so on). By overcoming their fear of sex
>>> they prepared to meet It. After they had successfully done away
>>> with this big taboo, the were ready to destroy the rest of their
>>> fears.
>>>
>>> Well, just speculating ...
>>>
>>>     - Oliver
>>>
>>> "I never drink ... wine." (The Count)
>>
>> Wow!  FAscinating thoughts here, Oliver.  I'd never considered your theory
>> of the children in It preparing to meet their fear by conquering one of
>> their own (one that certainly is shared by all adolescents as you rightly
>> point out.)  It's interesting, and I like it a lot more than my original
>> response to that scene which was to think: This is totally pointless and
>> I'm pissed that King's editor didn't cut this.  Thanks.
>>
>> On Barker, though, I guess I'm not totally convinced that his use of it is
>> therapeutic for his own fear.  Guess I'd like to stay away from
>> psychoanalyzing the writer himself and stick with what's in front of me.
>> On that note, I have to say that I think Barker's work has an air of
>> experimentation to it that doesn't really translate to dealing with fear of
>> sex.  No, there's too much joy and fun he communicates in many of his sex
>> scenes to really convince me that sex and human sexuality is something to
>> be feared.  Yes, you're right.  There are many sex scenes in his work which
>> are disturbing and attached, as it were, to destruction.  I could cite
>> scenes in Weaveworld when the ghost sisters rape the protagonist or
>> certainly a number of similar abuses in Imajica.  But I think there's
>> enough to counter those which suggests simply that Barker enjoys exploring
>> the bounds of human sexuality and sees it as an integral part of our
>> existence.  In the end this suggests to me that sex is absolutely *not*
>> something to fear, but also *not* something that we should let take us over
>> , either.
>>
>> Further thoughts?
>>
>> Andrea @ BVC
>>
>>
>> Yes, you're right. I pointed out that fear-of-sex-thing to strong.
>> (Perhaps due to my after all still limited skills in English as a
>> foreign language). There is also a lot of "Joy of Sex" (pun not
>> intended|) in Barker's work. But after all, when you look at
>> the Hellraiser and the thematically related material, you will
>> find sex very closely associated with violence and pain. That's okay
>> by me, because sex (especially good sex) in fact IS frightening and
>> just a heartbeat away from violence. (And I am NO member of the
>> SM department|||) Barker simply goes one step further than "normal"
>> relationships: he takes the step from passion to pain (like
>> some other authors did before, like de Sade)
>>
>>      - Oliver
>>
>> "I never drink ... wine." (The Count)
> 
> I hadn't thought about good sex really being just a heartbeat away from
> violence, but I suppose you're right on that mark, too.  I haven't read
> Hellraiser yet, unfortunately, so your referece to that work was lost on me
> .  However, I get a hint of what you're talking about from several of his
> other works.  There's a great short story (I think it's in the Inhuman
> Condition, but I can't be sure of that) about a man who serves as a "lab
> rat" of sorts for an experiemental new aphrodisiac.  I'm sorry I can't
> remember the name of the story, but it exemplifies precisely what you're
> talking about here.
> 
> By the way, you have no need to apologize for your lack of perfection with
> the English language.  I hadn't paid any attention to the mail address on
> your previous posts and was, in fact, surprised when I saw you were writing
> from the University of Vienna.  Your English is better than many native
> speakers I've read on the net.  Ah....would that my German had remained as
> good as your English is now.
> 
> Andrea @ BVC
>>
>   Thanks a lot.
> 
>     - Oliver
Newsgroups: alt.horror