HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Testing maglevs
Date: 7 Oct 92 01:11:52 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: 1776 Enterprises, Sudbury MA

lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
> >Until cheap and reliable maglevs have been demonstrated (including little 
> >things like switches) they will be uselessly expensive novelties. What's 
> >the value, beyond the gee-whiz factor, of a maglev people mover? What can 
> >it do that a rubber-tired vehicle can't do?  Whisk folks 1.2 miles at 300 
> >mph? Maybe we need maglev escalators, too.
> 
>       I see what you mean. But I do think that the technology has to be 
> tested _somewhere_, and where is a better place but relatively short lines 
> without any branches? No branches means no switches to be repeatedly 
> thrown, which gets around _that_ conundrum.

Now there's an interesting piece of logic:  We should test maglevs to see
whether their problems can be solved.  One of the biggest unsolved problems 
is switches.  So we should test maglevs where we don't need switches!

   ___            _                                           -  Bob
   /__) _   /    / ) _   _
(_/__) (_)_(_)  (___(_)_(/_______________________________________ bob@1776.COM
Robert K. Coe ** 14 Churchill St, Sudbury, Massachusetts 01776 ** 508-443-3265
From: pierson@cimcad.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Does anyone know the status of Amtraks swedish car trials?
Date: 15 Oct 92 00:20:53 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

Just sawa UPI story that AMTRAK will be "introducing" the X2000 "within three
months".  Whether that is revenue service or testing is unclear from the story.

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
146 Main St			|I am the NRA.
Maynard, Mass		01754	pierson@msd27.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
From: mdb@csc.liv.ac.uk (Martin Beer)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: More on the Channel Tunnel
Date: 14 Oct 92 14:34:25 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Liverpool University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

D Muxworthy (dtm@castle.ed.ac.uk) wrote:
> Perhaps BR have added to the confusion about French locomotives appearing
> in Britain by painting some of their locomotives in French, Belgian and
> German livery, in connection with a freight exhibition in Birmingham
> in September.  A genuine French electric loco also appeared there, but
> it was brought by ship to Middlesbrough (anyone know why?) and thence by
> road of course.
> David Muxworthy

Probably because there was suitable (road) route for such a large road from
the East Coast to Birmingham.  BR will soon be regretting the loss of
the Great Central route, which was built to Berne Gauge at the
turn of the century.

Martin

--
Dr. Martin Beer,
Department of Computer Science,		Telephone 051-794-3672
University of Liverpool,		Fax: 051-794-3715
Chadwick Tower, P.O. Box 147,           EMail mdb@uk.ac.liverpool.compsci
LIVERPOOL.  L69 3BX. United Kingdom.
From: eddie@railnet.nshore.ORG (Eddie Van Huffel)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: AARPCO Special Train
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 92 01:29:16 EDT
Organization: Railnet BBS +1 216 786 0476

phxy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:

> 
> Spent yesterday chasing the AARPCO special across upstate New York!
> What a beautiful train!  20 PVs in a variety of liveries, including
> six domes.  Motive power was two reasonably clean Amtrak F40s. The
> last car was the "Dagny Taggart"(named, I assume after the Ann Rynd
> character) marked for an outfit called something like the "East Texas
> and Buffalo Creek Steamship Company".  Anybody know anything about
> this outfit?  Who they are, where they are from, why they named the 
> car what they did?
> 
> Bruce Fingerhood
> brucef@ee.cornell.edu
> School of Electrical Engineering
> Cornell University
> Ithaca NY
> 

What railroad was this train running on???



--
eddie@railnet.nshore.ORG (Eddie Van Huffel)
Railnet BBS +1 216 786 0476
From: billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: So Where is Steamtown Anyway?
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:47:30 GMT
Organization: LA&W RR

In article <1992Oct5.114837.27809@walter.cray.com> rl@ferris.cray.com (Randy Lambertus) writes:

> It's located at the old Delaware Lackawanna & Western shops in 
>downtown Scranton. The shops must take up most of downtown and you
>can't miss it. At the old station is a 'Big-Boy' that is too heavy
>to move across the bridge into the site. The park is managed by the

Which bridge?  The Big Boy is east of Steamtown and came from the west
when moved from Vermont, so it had to cross any bridges between it and
the current location.


>Park Service, and when I was there in March 1991, they wouldn't let 
>anyone into the yards. They claimed the visiting season opened only
>in summer. Across from the site are some other shop buildings that
>have something to do with the Department of Defence. Anybody have
>a guess at what goes on there? Oh yeah, it used to be in Vermont.

I beleive it is now an ammunition plant, and was formerly the DL&W
erecting shop.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: pierson@cimcad.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson)
Subject: Re: Does anyone know the status of Amtraks swedish car trials?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 00:02:02 GMT

In article <wesley.718924694@darth>, wesley@pws.ma30.bull.com (Wesley
Dunnington) writes...
>I remember reading several months ago that amtrack would be testing a
>tilting passenger car made in Sweden for possible use on the Boston-nyc-etc
>run. Has this happened yet? 
	Hasn't happened yet.  There was a note in the current RGI that the cars
	for the test had just started testing in Sweden.  I believe that they
	will complete and send an entire train (power cars plus trailers) even
	tho AMTRAK would only be testing the trailers alone, with turbo's for
	power.

	INQUIRY: Has anybody heard: would they tow the power cars and the
	trailers during testing, or just the trailers????
	
thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
146 Main St			|I am the NRA.
Maynard, Mass		01754	pierson@msd27.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Subject: Re: toronto subway gauge
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: rec
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 12:17:26 GMT

ODD GUAGE LINES

The reason many traction lines were built to odd gauges
was that city fathers specified the guages in the 
charters and franchises to keep steam road freight 
equipment off their streets.  Many lines in Pennsylvania
were built to odd guages.  In the west where 3-foot 
guage lines were common, many steam dummy lines were 
built to odd guages like 42 or 45 inches (called bastard
gauges) for the same reason.

I wasn't aware the Toronto surface lines were wide guage.
Didn't many of the Toronto cars serve under lease on 
San Francisco's MUNI in the 1970s?  If so, they would 
have been narrowed at great cost and later widened again
when they returned to Toronto.  

~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jis@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (jishnu.mukerji)
Subject: Re: Diesel vs. Electric Locomotive Maintenance
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:00:58 GMT

In article <35620@cbmvax.commodore.com> grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) writes:
 [ .... much material deleted for brevity ...]
>On possibility is that by US standards many of these European lines
>may be high density.  The "high density" Northeast Corridor offers about
>one through train per hour each way during daytime and evening - more
>commuter trains in specific urban areas of course. 

Hmmm. The latest issue of the Amtrak NEC timetable that I am looking
at suggests that there are on an average two trains in each direction
per hour between new York and Washington DC - a Metroliner and a
Conventional express. This of course does not take into account the
several long distance trains that happen to run on the Corridor too.

Looking at the traffic density on some of the trunk routes in USA, say
the Conrail Water-Level Route, I get the impression that if that route
were being operated anywhere in Europe or Asia, it would have gotten
electrified by now. I think lower oil prices and sheer inertia plays
major roles in this not happening. 

Jishnu Mukerji
jis@usl.com
From: 737ochs@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Diesel vs. Electric Locomotive Maintenance
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:20:17 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <jwj2.119.719178566@po.CWRU.Edu>, jwj2@po.CWRU.Edu (Jermaster) writes:
> In article <1992Oct15.170505.2398@athena.mit.edu> sathomas@athena.mit.edu (Stephen A Thomas) writes:
> 
>>There are a number of GG1's preserved in museums around the country.  I've seen
>>them at three.  The previously mentioned Strasburg museum has the original GG1 -
>>4800 (rivets, not the production welded construction) and another I believe 4877
>>that was preserved during Amtrak's phasing out of the engine.  The B&O museum in
>>Baltimore (near the new ballpark) has one outside the museum building.  Steamtown
>>had one or two (?) when I went there for an unofficial visit before it reopened
>>in Scranton, PA.  I think there are GG1's preserved in other locations as well
>>-the Henry Ford museum and The St Louis Transportation museum ring bells with me.
> 
> The 4913 is at the Railroaders' Memorial Museum in Altoona, PA.

I don't know the numbers off hand, but there's one sitting in Elkhart IN,
just west of the yard, right next to an NYC Mokawk-type Steam Engine,
and there is also one at Illinois Railway Museum.
By the way, has anyone ever been ina cab ofone of those? Boy did it look
cramped!!! (I got a chance to get in the one in Elkhart)

Fred Ochs
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: cal@ee.ryerson.ca (Calvin Henry-Cotnam)
Subject: Re: toronto subway gauge
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:32:25 GMT

pierson@cimcad.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson) writes:
>	A usual reason for odd gauges in "transit" work was to make sure that
>	freight/main line passenger trains COULD NOT use the same trackage.

ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff) writes:
>The reason many traction lines were built to odd gauges
>was that city fathers specified the guages in the 
>charters and franchises to keep steam road freight 
>equipment off their streets.


This may be true in many cases, but not in the case of Toronto.

The information I have says that at the time of the building of the
first street railway (then horse-drawn) the most common horse-drawn
buggy had wheels with a gauge just under 4'-10".  They set the guage
of the tracks to 4'-10" (I have heard 4'- 10 3/4", the jury's still out)
so that people in their own buggy could have their wheels ride in the
flange-way in order to provide a smoother ride.


Calvin Henry-Cotnam, CATE            |    MY CANADA INCLUDES CANADIANS!
Ryerson Polytechnical Institute      | I would really like this to include
Toronto, Ontario, Canada             | Quebec - but I won't hold my breath.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan)
Subject: Re: NYC color-coding, again
Reply-To: brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:12:11 GMT

In article <JMD.92Oct9194250@lion.bear.com> jmd@bear.com (Josh Diamond) writes:

>Joe, the squashed black lumps are probably chewing gum.

Josh, that's what I hope they are.  The truth, if we knew it, might be
more than we can bear.  --Joe Brennan

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: dfl@panix.com (Danny O'Bedlam)
Subject: Re: More on the Channel Tunnel
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 06:43:23 GMT
Organization: Panix, (New Yawk City)

In <1850@eagle.ukc.ac.uk> jmb@ukc.ac.uk (J.M.Bremner) writes:
>>By the way,according to the latest Modern Railways, the Class 92 freight locos
>>are now 15-18 months behind schedule (but not contractually late!?!).
>As a result of which French Bo-Bo locomotives are being prepared for
>freight service through the tunnel.
>I can't remember if anyone mentioned it, but opening is now "fixed" for
>a date in December 1993.

	This jives with what I read in the most recent issue of 
IRJ (Int'l Railway Journal [& Rapid Transit Review]), thats the Oct 92
 for those of you out there who might be able to find it! The opening
date is in December 1993 and BR freight trains will be pulled by 
modified SNCF locs until the Chunnel locs are ready.  the delay was
attributed to "design problems".  Apparently SNCF agreed to modify
their class BB22200 to run as far as Dollands Moor near Folkestone
where freight will be switched to/from diesel.  [now that I have
the issue in front of me I dont see mention of the opening date,
musta been in the Sep 92 issue]




-- 
***********************************************************************
* Danny O'Bedlam  = dfl@panix.com = cmcl2!panix!dfl = Danny Lieberman *
* PO Box 3131 Church St Station, New Yawk, New Yawk, 10008-3131 (usa) *
***********************************************************************
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: More on Metrolink (L.A.)
Date: 16 Oct 92 06:53:53 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <26836@dog.ee.lbl.gov> b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman) writes:
> re: Metrolink and Amtrak Fares
> 
> ('city' in the following may be read as 'metropolitan area')
> 
> I recall recently reading some rules of thumb about intercity
> and intracity fares, and that intracity fares (such as commuter
> rail operations) are typically about half of intracity fares (e.g.
> Amtrak) on a per-mile basis.  I don't remember the actual numbers though.

Well, you've got intra-vs-intra, but I also would expect commuter fars
to be less than Amtrak.  On the Northeast Corridor, the Amtrak short-haul
fares are much more expensive (~2-5X) than SEPTA fares between the same
station.

This makes some sense - not only is the Amtrak service much faster
and more comfortable, but having the trains full of commuters between
two stations local to one metro area means that you need to provide
a lot of extra cars that would be poorly utilized over the length of
the long haul service.

Solution - charge the commuters high enough fares to either discourage
them or to pay for the empty seats or the rest of the run...

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...
but no way officially representing:   uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
Commodore, Engineering Department     domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: terryfry@access.digex.com (Terry Fry)
Subject: Re: Diesel vs. Electric Locomotive Maintenance
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 00:58:09 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.121947.2558@erenj.com> bdboyle@erenj.com (Bryan D. Boyle) writes:
>In article <Bw0rEz.30F@access.digex.com> terryfry@access.digex.com (Terry Fry) writes:
>
>>>   (stuff deleted re: GG1 design and electrical config....)
>>
>>Those engines ran "before" my time, I was in high-school during the last 
>>years of operation... and not anywhere near Potomac Yard to see any operations.

>As one who grew up along the NY/WASH corridor, however, they may have 
>retired the Gs, but the sight of them running down the line past my
>house remains one my fondest memories.  It wasn't so much metal fatigue
>on the frames, as crystalization of the cast iron from age and
>vibration.  As they retired the engines from service in the '86-87
>timeframe, the stacked them up in the harrison nj yards-the paint on
>some of them so worn away, that you could see the '50 pennsy wide-stripe
>scheme...and one still had (forget which number...) the 5 gold stripe
>livery..most were ugly amtrak black, however...

Hmm.  I was under the impression that GG1's were gone, 1983-84, some 
staying for Conrail into late 84.  When I was eligible for a drivers
license in 1985, the first thing me and any other of the railfans I knew
was head to Richmond, VA for freight (RF&P) and into Alexandria to watch
for electrics.  I don't recall ever seeing a GG1.  Some E44's, but that's
all I remember.  My memories come from early 80's trips with my father
to the corridor.... we lived in Southern Railway "turf."

When did the last GG1 go?


From: jbrandt@hplred.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 20:23:22 GMT
Subject: EBT .. East Broad Top RR
Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA
From: dawdy@tellabs.com (Dan Dawdy)
Subject: Re: W&S ramblings
Organization: Tellabs, Lisle, IL
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 01:41:44 GMT

I just got back from a stay in Janesville, Wisconsin and here
is a quick update.  After the purshase of the WICT by WSOR the
motive power was moved out of Janesville.  As of now, the WSOR
does have power back in Janesville although they do not use
the old Milwuakee roundhouse which is owned by Glen.  This
morning (10/11/92) we had a string of power which included
WICT #614 and #616 along with WSOR #4491, 4492 and 4494.
Also in the yard next to the engines was private car "St. James
Place".  I don't think WSOR wants anything to do with the
roundhouse or the property.  An informed source says that
Glen may be visited by the EPA and there maybe some major
clean up involved.  As I understand it, the Milwaukee Road
did not install separators back in the 1970's at the
Janesville location.  As I mentioned back in August, there
is still a deal with the Soo Line in the works for Janesville
and westward.  Janesville's biggest shipper is GM and they
refuse to deal with any short line.  All the business
is on the North Western.  GM would like two rail companies
but, as stated, will not work with the old WICT or WSOR.
(They would consider Wisconsin Central a short line)

I hope to post GIF's of the WSOR power in Janesville
and Janesville as it was in the early 1970's. (That
means FM's)  I do have a good friend who is in charge
of the former WICT rebuilding (he works for the
Wisconsin Rail Commision) and will try to answer any
other questions.

Dan
-- 
************************************************************************
  |\\                                   *
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  J    \ \         --------|            *      dawdy@tellabs.com
         \ \     / [] ZORRO|            *   Compu$erve:
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             \ \|  ||      |            *
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     ____________()______()__________   *       King of Scales
   The painters last day on the job :-) *
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: MORE ON POT YARD
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:37:37 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

The Redskins stadium project for Pot Yard is dead.

In a joint statement issued October 14, Virginia
Governor L. Douglas Wilder and Redskins owner Jack
Kent Cook announced that the deal was off.  

Governor Wilder was forced to make numerous changes
to the original plan to placate the General Assembly
which had to approve placing the bond issue on the
ballot.  The stadium was strongly opposed by citizens
and policial leaders in Alexandria, who were angry
that they were not consulted over the plan.  They
also raised objections to increased traffic and 
other problems in the area.

Among the changes, Wilder asked Cook to absorb an 
additional $10 million in development costs.  The 
money was to have paid for the stadium foundation.
In the original plan, this would have been paid by the
Virginia taxpayers.  Additionally, Wilder withdrew the
offer of exclusive development rights on 28 acres
adjacent to the stadium.  Cook refused to accept the
changes.

The future use of Pot Yard remains in doubt, but is sure
to be a hot political topic for years to come.  The 
property is controlled through the state retirement fund
which was a major shareholder of the RF&P railroad.  The
railroad operation was recently sold to the CSX Corporation,
but real estate and other assets are still controlled by
the retirement fund.

~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
From: bdboyle@erenj.com (Bryan D. Boyle)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Diesel vs. Electric Locomotive Maintenance
Date: 14 Oct 92 12:19:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: erenj.1992Oct14.121947.2558
Organization: Exxon Research and Engineering Co., NJ

In article <Bw0rEz.30F@access.digex.com> terryfry@access.digex.com (Terry Fry) writes:

>>   (stuff deleted re: GG1 design and electrical config....)
>
>Those engines ran "before" my time, I was in high-school during the last 
>years of operation... and not anywhere near Potomac Yard to see any operations.
>
>I once mentioned the GG1 in the same breath as rectifier, and did I recieve
>mail on that one.  Some of the more detailed messages I have since forgotten
>but the general difference still sits in my mind.  I often wondered
>that some of the GG1's logevity must reside in the simplicity of design
>they had.
>
>It was a moot point, the other poster was also correct, main chassis
>deterioration was to the point of no return, and after 40-50 years of
>running, I think that they made their money's worth.
>

As one who grew up along the NY/WASH corridor, however, they may have 
retired the Gs, but the sight of them running down the line past my
house remains one my fondest memories.  It wasn't so much metal fatigue
on the frames, as crystalization of the cast iron from age and
vibration.  As they retired the engines from service in the '86-87
timeframe, the stacked them up in the harrison nj yards-the paint on
some of them so worn away, that you could see the '50 pennsy wide-stripe
scheme...and one still had (forget which number...) the 5 gold stripe
livery..most were ugly amtrak black, however...

Bryan D. Boyle     |Opinions mine, not Exxon's...
Senior Engineer    |Fly because you can....
From: bhoffman@fmssun1.corp.mot.com (Bill Hoffman)
Subject: Re: Michigan applies for High Speed...
Organization: Motorola CMRC
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 13:26:42 GMT

In article <1992Oct16.023903.8359@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Oct14.234231.1@uwovax.uwo.ca> baer@uwovax.uwo.ca writes:
> >In article <16088@umd5.umd.edu>, gurd@next04wor.wam.umd.edu (Daffy Duck) writes:
> >> The following article also appeared in the October 5, 1992 edition of  
> >> Passenger Transport.  Copyright, 1992 American Public Transit Association.
> >> 
> >> "Michigan Files for High Speed Rail Corridor Designation"
> >> 
> >>    DEARBORN, MICH. -- High speed rail travel in Michigan received a hefty  
> >> boost recently when the Michigan DOT filed an application with the U.S.  
> >> DOT requesting the rail corridor between Detroit and Michigan be  
> >> designated as a high speed rail corridor.  It is the first step in the  
> >> eventual development of trains going in excess of 150mph along the route.
> >[... stuff deleted]
> [dito]
[... more stuff deleted]

I heard on the news this morning as I was leaving home that high speed 
corridor status was officially granted to the Detroit- Chicago route as 
a part of a high speed corridor system including Milwaukee WI, Chicago IL,
Detroit MI, and St.Louis MO.  I did not catch all the details.

Bill Hoffman