HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: igb@fulcrum.co.uk (Ian G Batten)
Subject: Re: Williams F1
Organization: Fulcrum Communications
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 08:55:53 GMT

In article <liq0tpINNgvf@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael) writes:
> Damon Hill is the front runner for the world championship in 93.  I
> think that Prost will have to struggle to be runner-up.

Let us assume, for the sake of argument, that next year the Williams
will enjoy the superiority it has enjoyed this year.  It's probably
reasonably true: McLaren will be wrestling with new engines that
probably aren't as good as the Renault (although it must be noted that
the simple, light, manual gearbox, non-active Benneton was competitive
with the Ford) and Benneton still have a technology gap.  The chassis of
the McLaren should be better than last year, though.

Let us furthermore assume that Hill is as fast as is claimed.  Since
Prost is, whatever your views on the man, very quick, we're not talking
seconds a lap here.  And Prost is clearly not going to pull over and let
him past.  So the questions are:

	* Can Hill get past Prost with Prost DEFENDING his place?

	* Can Hill handle traffic and backmarkers as he laps?

There's no evidence of Hill here.  Prost has three World Championships.

And tyre choice.  And pitting decisions.  We're not talking speed ---
we're talking intellect.  Prost has a proven record.

ian
From: cg894@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brian Lee Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Cig and Alcohol Ads
Date: 16 Dec 1992 17:54:44 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I neither smoke or drink, but seeing sposorship decals on F1,
F3000, IndyCar, IMSA, or NASCAR cars doesn't bother me at all!
They have NO effect on me (I'm sure Marlboro, Budweiser, and
everyone else doesn't like to hear that).  My point is that
these ads do not promote taking up smoking, but switching brands
if you already do.  How many previously non-smoking Michael
Andretti fans are gonna start puffing away at Marlboro's in
honor of their driver?  Not many, I submit.  Advertising is
based on the one principal that we all have: the ability to make
a decision.  I decide not to smoke, but at the same time, I do
decide to wear my Penske Racing Marlboro cap.  Half the jury,
or whatever the French courts system have, were smoking Gitanes!
 
Give me a break!
-- 
      
Brian Wilson...                 Not from the Beach Boys!
From: chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Williams F1
Date: 15 Dec 1992 20:26:48 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: regenmeister

From article <1gj5ukINNi3a@morrow.stanford.edu>, by jeff@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Jeff Freymueller):
> In article <liq0tpINNgvf@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael) writes:
>>From article <9212141434.AA00728@client47.comlab.ox.ac.uk>, by Alan.Crowder@prg.oxford.ac.uk:
>>> 
>>> Just announced that Damon Hill will be the second driver to Alain 
>>> Prost on the Willaims Team.
>>> 
>>> I reckon he will be better than Prost and if he competes in all the races
>>> may well end up with more points.
>>> 
>>> Alan
>>
>>Damon Hill is the front runner for the world championship in 93.  I
>>think that Prost will have to struggle to be runner-up.
>>
>>Chris
> 
> Chris (and others), what makes you think that Damon will be regularly beating
> Prost next year? Prost has 44 GP wins, and will be back in top shape by the
> start of the season, as well as being accustomed to the car. Even if he is
> starting to lose speed to age, I doubt his ability has dropped much yet.

The issue is that it has become clear that it takes a special and
seemingly different, tallent to excell in a car with active suspension.
The results of all uses and testing of active suspension F1 cars makes
it clear that some very fine drivers DO NOT have the required tallent.
The list to date of the does and don't is DO: Mansell, Hill; DON'T:
Senna, Patrese, Berger, Piquet.

The testing results that have been published, so far show that the
closest Prost has gotten to Hill's times is 0.6 seconds slower and the
numbers have more often been in the range of 1.0 to 1.6 seconds slower.
Those numbers say that today, Damon Hill can walk away from Allain Prost
the same way that Nigel Mansell walked away from Rico Patrese.

Allain Prost has great tallant, a powerful intelligence, superb
experience, and a great will to win.  (He is also a great in whiner as 
Mansell and Senna.)  But, unless he can close and reverse that gap that 
now separates him from Hill,  Damon must be the favorite for next years 
championship.

Chris Prael
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Re: Daytona 24Hours News
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 23:59:13 GMT

In article <92351.145807BWF2@psuvm.psu.edu> <BWF2@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>       Hey Bob, being I'm from the State College area and follow
>       the Leitzinger's more than the local paper even does, what
>       is going on here? Lorring used to drive with Bob and Chuck
>       et al in the 24hr race. In fact, all season long. Is GTU
>       still in existence? I'll never read about it in the CDT that's
>       for sure. If it ain't P$U sports, it ain't covered!
>    Brian " I remember when the Leitzinger's won their division at Daytona
>            a couple of years ago and the CDT had a paragraph in it about
>            3 weeks later." France   CDT is the local rag of course.

Sounds like Loring might've been having a 'tryout' 
with AAR....and apparently was impressive in a 
limited run.  Of course, you and I at least know
that Loring is the reigning GTU Series Champion.

Of course, during the course of the year, my allegiance
in GTU was not with the Leitzinger Nissan team, but
that of the Full Time Racing Dodge's of John Fergus
and Don Walker, as Don's a home-boy and friend of mine.
And yes, GTU is still alive.

And timely reporting?.....Another state home-boy, Parker
Johnstone, wrapped up his second consecutive driver's
championship in GTLights this year, and there has yet
to be a mention in the local news about the fact.

bob
From: ajd@DIALix.oz.au (Anthony Doig)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Williams F1
Date: 18 Dec 1992 11:00:37 +0800
Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.dialix.oz.au
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 #1

In <lisfs8INNh6@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael) writes:

>The issue is that it has become clear that it takes a special and
>seemingly different, tallent to excell in a car with active suspension.
>The results of all uses and testing of active suspension F1 cars makes
>it clear that some very fine drivers DO NOT have the required tallent.
>The list to date of the does and don't is DO: Mansell, Hill; DON'T:
>Senna, Patrese, Berger, Piquet.

Senna seemed to do OK with the active Lotus in '87 (Detroit, Monaco).
McLaren haven't raced their active car yet, have they ?

>Chris Prael

Doigman.
-- 
Anthony Doig		 	   _--_|\	E-mail : ajd@Dialix.oz.au
Corporate Systems Development	  /      \	Voice  : +61 9 321 2442
Perth, Western Australia	  *_.--._/	Fax    : +61 9 474 2553
				        v
From: tms4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Thane M. Sellers)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Racers vs Race Fans
Date: 18 Dec 92 17:04:37 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <724629012snx@scotty.mv.com>, scs@scotty.mv.com (Steve Scott) writes:
>...This is not intended to be a flame but I can remember 3-4
>years ago when this newsgroup was relatively new and there were
>quite a few racers that subscribed. There were always race
>reports from various types of formula, from karts to FF1600 to
>formula Atlantic, Trans-Am, Rallying, and even Mini-stocks
>(stock cars).
>  So, what's going on?, Are we, the racers simply drowned in
>a sea of autosports critics who in my humble opinion know next
>to nothing about the real side of the sport? Or, is it that
>there are no more racers that read and post to this newsgroup?
>Maybe the few racers that do subscribe feel that nobody wants
>to hear what they have to say...if that's the case, you`re
>wrong, because I for one would much rather read some real-life
>accounts of trials, triumphs, or even failures, rather than
>someone`s opinion on who`s fault it was that caused some alter-
>cation or why someone is a bonehead for not getting out of the
>way of the poster`s favorite driver.
>
>Maybe it was intended to be a flame.
>
>I`ll post a followup to this soon because I'd like to know
>exactly how many subscribers do in fact race.
>
>I hope there'll be a couple reports from New Zealand on the
>formula pacific series going over [our] winter.
>
>Steve Scott        Manchester, NH.,USA       scs@scotty.mv.com
>Karting: Racing's best kept secret.
>
Steve, in answer to your post, there are still racers subscribed to this
board.  My name is Thane Sellers and I run F-2000.  Last season I ran SCCA
nationals in central division and this season I will be stepping up to the
Pro F-2000 USAC series on the west coast.  When the season starts up, I'll be
sure to post race results and give a recount of the race weekend.

Thane Sellers
Lehigh University
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: NZ F-Atlantic
From: ljw@nacjack.gen.nz (lawrence wilkinson)
Date: 19 Dec 92 20:21:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Malleus Maleficarum - Nil Mortifi Since Lucre


If anyone in NZ is able to post results from the NZ series, I would be
happy to arrange to have them faxed each afternoon.  Since I will be
travelling with the series, it's not practical for me to post personally. 
Neither will I be able to provide any commentary, though maybe a few
notes such as retirement reasons.

Any volunteers please contact me via Email.

As for the series, there are now 5 overseas cars here:
Crow & Nearburg (USA) Ralt RT-40
Cameron (NZ/USA) Reynard 92H
Pope (USA) Swift DB-4
Taylor (GB) Ralt RT-40

also Graeme Lawrence is close to signing on two drivers (Dutch & Korean)
for his team (Swift DB-4s) and will also run Mike Davidson in an RT-4.

Locals Ken Smith, Paul Radisich (Swift DB-4s) and Craig Baird (Reynard
92H) are entered, but I am not sure about the usual RT-4 runners.  Greg
Murphy is running a DB-4.

Lawrence Wilkinson

============== ljw@nacjack.gen.nz ============== CI$ 72070,3440 ==============
There's nothing so simple that works so well that it can't    --o--      F-Atl
be made to work better by making it more complicated.       []=(_)=[]   TTAGGG
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: mjackson.wbst147@xerox.com (Mark Jackson)
Subject: Re: Senna to Penske?
Reply-To: mjackson.wbst147@xerox.com
Organization: Xerox Corporation, Webster NY
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 13:57:27 GMT

Possible relevant bit:

NBC news was reporting this morning that Rick Mears has announced his
retirement.  They gave no further information (but *did* have time to
show footage of one of his crashes, of course).

---
Mark <MJackson.Wbst147@Xerox.COM>
    [X and Y] point out that their device is hardly state of the art.
    It was, after all, built out of off-the-shelf parts by theorists.
	    - world-class understatement from the November /Physics Today/


Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: rgolen@UMASSD.EDU
Subject: Re: RaceTime Magazine
Reply-To: rgolen@UMASSD.EDU
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:25:09 GMT

 
> OK, at the risk of taking this thread very far away from ras charter but
>here goes anyway.
>
>Ric, have you ever been to Poland ?  If you had I don't think you
>would make such a statement.  Its a wonderful country that has suffered
>through a corrupt government system and dreadful economy.  The people
>are great and are especially nice to Americans (at least they were when
>I was there).  I was there for a week in 1988 and left from Warsaw
>the day before the big strike that brought the whole system down for good.
>The government knew something would hapen as there were two policemen with
>the obligatory guns on every street corner.  Not a day to be changing
>US dollars illegally!  Anyway, I for one would love to pay a return
>visit someday.
>
>Ross Taylor
>
>
I too am sorry for taking this a bit far afield from r.a.s, but here goes,
I have been to Poland about 4 or 5 times between 1966 and 1991. I still
have family in the southern part of Poland in and around the Krakow
area. Yes, its a wonderful country, yes the previous government
system sucked, they even sent a customs official tracking us
down in 1966 to retrieve the extra cash they gave us by mistake
when we converted our $$ to zlotys. However, it is still not
high on my list of places I want to visit.

Ric Golen
From: leec@compnews.co.uk (Lee Clarkson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: RAC Sticker wanted
Date: 15 Dec 92 18:55:36 GMT
Organization: Computer Newspaper Services, Howden, UK.
NNTP-Posting-Host: aniseed.compnews.co.uk
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]



--
Lee Clarkson, (CNS)
From: mjs3@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (MICHAEL JOHN SCIABICA)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Prost v. Alesi
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:31:59 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University


	All this Prost v. Hiil talk reminds me of something I read before the
1991 season started. A pre-season Road and Track pointed out that Alesi had
broken the record at Ferrari's test track (Fiorano?), out-testing Prost.
Although I don't know how the full compliment of testing sessions turned out
(help, anyone?), it is interesting -- R&T implied that Prost had better watch
out lest he be out done by his new team mate. The 1991 season, however,
spoke highly in Prost's favor . . .
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: "curtis repen" <curtis.repen@canrem.com>
Subject: senna to penske?
Reply-To: "curtis repen" <curtis.repen@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 16 Dec 92 12:26:20 EST

In article : <1992Dec15.022911.18922@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>
        in : rec.autos.sport
             golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:


GO>In article <1992Dec15.000900.5228@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks) writes:
>
>I can see Nige finishing fourth or fifth in the points.  My inclination
>right now says 1) Al Jr  2) Luyendyk  3)  Fittipaldi  4) Rahal  5) Nige
>My heart tells me the Flying Dutchman will win it all, but my brain says
>no.  I'm also a Ford man (check the .sig).
>

GO>What have you got against Canadians?  -)

GO>Goodyear was fifth last year...and this year he has two '93 cars and
GO>Ford power and more testing time.


You and I seem to have quite the overlap in the groups we follow,
Gerald. This time, I agree with you.


Anyways, back to topic:

Paul Tracey should not be overlooked either: He has skill in abundance,
and this year, a top-notch car, and unless Senna joins Penske, he'll
have a good portion of the attention of one of the best teams in the
business.


The only thing he seems to be lacking is a cool head, and hopefully
time, experience, and a good tongue-lashing or two from Roger Penske
will cure *that* particular problem :-)


Really, he reminds me of Senna in his early days, or Alesi, or
Schumacher, or any number of young F1 drivers, whose early days were
marked by brilliant, dangerous rushes, and large numbers of car parts
strewn about the circuit when they broke the gearbox, engine, whatever.

Patience and savvy can be taught, raw skill and hunger cannot. (IMHO, of
course).

curtis.repen@canrem.com ----  Senna !!! --- Vancouver ---- Go Leafs, Go!
repen#controls.husky.on.ca     __ o___-=     Canucks       And take Bob
repen@redline.(fnord)uucp    _/o-`==O/       in '93!       Rae with you!

 * DeLuxe2 1.26b #437 * 
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:53:30 -0500 
From: Dino_P._Chiesa@transarc.com
Subject: Re: F1: Hill gets Williams drive!
	<1992Dec15.195153.18783@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com>



winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:
> Bob Kehoe writes:
> > .....just curious about something.  Seems to me that the
> > Damon Hill announcement (at least here) has garnered more
> > discussion than the Mears' retirement announced last week.
> >
> > Imo, the latter news had much more significance.
> 
> Welcome to the world motor sport perspective, as opposed to the US perspective.
> F1 is second only to World Cup Football as a worldwide spectator sport.
> In contrast, IndyCar is mainly of US interest only, and even in the US, it is
> a distant second to NASCAR.  "Rick who?" is the response you'll get in most
> of the world if you mention Mears's retirement, whereas just about every motor
> racing fan outside the US will know that Damon Hill is Graham Hill's son and
> the test driver for Williams.
> 

     "IndyCar is mainly of US interest."  I grant you this.

     "a distant 2nd to NASCAR."  No.  2nd, yes.  Distant, no.

     most would say "Rick who?".  I doubt it . . .

     
What does being the son of a famous racing driver have over being a
famous racing driver?

> Welcome to the world motor sport perspective, as opposed to the US perspective.

More like, r.a.s perspective (after the GOBs have been booted). 

Mears had a great career, and will be remembered well.  D. Hill has along
way to go.  I wish him luck. 

-dino

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: gturrell@bmdhh256.bnr.ca (Graham Turrell)
Subject: gifs/jpegs requested 
Organization: BNR-Europe-Limited, Maidenhead, England
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 10:31:56 GMT

Hi,

I'm keen to get hold of any F1/IndyCar gif/jpg images that are around
on various host machines, but can't access machines directly. If some
kind person could either post some onto alt.binaries.pictures.misc, or
email them directly to me, I would be well chuffed !!

Please, please please !!

-- 
---------------------------------ooooOOOOoooo-----------------------------------
#include <standard_disclaimer>

#define NAME Graham_Turrell
#define MOTTO It could be worse, it could be raining.
---------------------------------ooooOOOOoooo-----------------------------------
From: leres@ace.ee.lbl.gov (Craig Leres)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: RaceTime Magazine
Date: 17 Dec 1992 23:45:39 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley CA
Reply-To: leres@ee.lbl.gov (ucbvax!leres for uucp weenies)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.112.6

I subscribed to RaceTime about 5 months ago and really like having all
the motorsports TV listings in one place. However, it started arriving
late a few months ago; last month it didn't show up until the 18th
(well after I got back from the Hooter's 500) and this month's still
hasn't arrived.

I tried calling their 800 number but it rings and rings. I tried
calling their business office but that number is disconnected. Their
fax number rings but doesn't answer. Out of desperation, I called their
advertising representative and he seems to know quite a bit.

Apparently, RaceTime is in the process of moving their offices. This
has caused quite a disruption. Also, the owner "Bill" decided not to
put out December and January issues for lack of listings (everyone's
subscriptions will get boosted 2 months to make up for this). And after
Bill decided to close shop for 2 months, he left on a 5 week vacation
in Poland and didn't leave anyone authorization to have the new phones
hooked up. Anyway, the account rep was kind of miffed and said that my
complaints were familiar. But at least he has some idea of what's going
on...

		Craig
From: marcink@quantum.carleton.ca (Marcin Kolbuszewski)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: D. Hill vs A. Prost <-> Mi. Andretti vs. A Senna
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:19:27 GMT
Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Dec17.172909.5814@cbnews.cb.att.com> kaybee@cbnews.cb.att.com (karen.a.beaudoin) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.015411.469@wes.on.ca>, tomh@wes.on.ca (Tom Haapanen) writes:
>> marcink@quantum.carleton.ca (Marcin Kolbuszewski) writes:
>> > A discussion "D. Hill vs A. Prost"  - who is better inspired
>> > me to ask a question, maybe even flame...
>> > Michael Andretti tested [1993 spec but Honda engined] McLaren in Barcelona
>> > and got half a second behind Senna's qualifying time in 1992 spec car.I 
>> > think that it is quite quick - for a first test...
>> 
>> Don't forget, though, that Mikey's time was over a second behind JJ Lehto's
>> in the 1993-spec Sauber (with a 1992 Ilmor engine) ...
>
>Not to detriment the abilities of one Mike A., but the car he was
>testing is certainly not the same "spec" that Senna used in qualifying
>in May '92 in Spain. 
>
>My guess is the engine is probably at least one "phase" newer, the fuel
>was certainly one generation different and the aerodynamics were certainly
>different for MA's test. 
>
>I recently bought the "GRAND PRIX '92" magazine from Eric Waiter's place
>and it has a chronology of the aerodynamics of a few cars in there.
>McLaren, Benetton, Ferrari(and the abondonment of the twin floor concept)
>were all explained in detail with sketches.  Highly recommended mag. $7.
>
>At any rate, the car Andretti tested was not the car Senna qualified.
>
Let's continue the flame:

If the fuel was different - it could be something different than
"rocket fuel" used in the early GP of the season. A reason to be slower.
A new phase engine is a reason to be faster. Let's assume these cancel
out. M. Andretti was half a second slower than  one of the best qualifying
drivers in F1. I keep my opinion. 
I even have some reason why M. Andretti can be quick: He always had to shift
manually. Even if manual shifting is as quick as semi-auto gearboxes are,
manual shifting requires moving one hand from the wheel. This decreases
precision. Nowe, with buttons to go up and down he can
spend "more attention" on steering and throttle. 

If the aerodynamics were different for MA test, compared ro Senna's - would
it be in the direction of less-downforce-faster-less-stable car? Another
reason to believe that MA is QUICK


Marcin
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: mayor@bayes.ece.cmu.edu (Gilberto S. Mayor)
Subject: F1 willians
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 02:51:46 GMT

>The issue is that it has become clear that it takes a special and
>seemingly different, tallent to excell in a car with active suspension.
>The results of all uses and testing of active suspension F1 cars makes
>it clear that some very fine drivers DO NOT have the required tallent.
>The list to date of the does and don't is DO: Mansell, Hill; DON'T:
>Senna, Patrese, Berger, Piquet.

I have never known that Senna, Piquet or Berger,  have driven a
latest generation active-suspension Willians.  Am I mistaken ?  

Gilberto

>Chris Prael


From: boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:26:28 GMT
Subject: Re: Flame! (Re: senna in indycars)
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport

>Dangerous driving style ??
>Please lets not get back on this subject , but what a stupid remark to make ...

Stupid?  Try accurate.  How many cars will Senna punt intentionally this
year?
From: denis@khafji.Stanford.EDU (Denis Schiozer)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: senna in indycars
Date: 11 Dec 1992 19:31:16 GMT
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
NNTP-Posting-Host: khafji.stanford.edu

In article <1992Dec11.184306.4716@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com> mcclure@NEBULA.SSD.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
>Senna in IndyCars.  I hope not!  His style of elitism and his
>dangerous driving style should not be put up with - either in
>IndyCars or F1.
>Kent M. McClure
>Auto racing afficionado and member of San
>Jose IPMS chapter.
>My views are what they are, like them or not.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

                NOT !

Denis


Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport