From: varvel@cs.utexas.edu (Donald A. Varvel)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: ULTRA marathon cycling
Date: 30 Jul 1992 14:46:56 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Jul30.124954.12522@meaddata.com> georged@meaddata.com (George Dibos) writes:
>In article <28nmz#f.tomk@netcom.com>, tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
>|> You mean to tell me that these guys actaully convinced
>|> you of that BS about the bike being drawn along by the
>|> 'wind' from the 18 wheeler? :-)
 
>|> Don't believe it. As long ago as Mile-a-minute Murphy
>|> that sort of pseudo-scientific garbage has been passed around.
>|> It was proven then and many times since that at the speeds
>|> used for these bicycle records that nothing of the sort exists.
 
OK.  I haven't been in this since posting one item near the beginning
that nobody followed up on, but this is getting entirely out of hand.

Note the use of the term "BS".  To back up the statement that what
somebody else said is "BS", we have "It was proven then and many
times since ..."  The use of the passive voice allows one to omit
mentioning *who* did the action referred to.

I have ridden in a convertible at highway speeds, which are what
we are talking about here, and have *felt* what little hair I have
being blown forward.  Thus, I know from my own experience that the
effect referred to *does* exist.  I am at least very skeptical of 
claims of proof of the nonexistance of a phenomenon I have
experienced.

>|> The vehicle has a dead spot behind it where the air is moving at about
>|> the speed of the vehicle. The rider _only_ (ONLY?) has to 
>|> overcome the rolling resistance, which is still pretty large.
>|> More problems occur in a long distance challenge since I for
>|> one wouldn't like riding behind something that blocked off view
>|> of 50 mph pot-holes. :-)

No, the vehicle has an area behind it with a variety of airflows,
depending on location and precise speed and several other factors.
In some places the air swirls forward faster than the vehicle.  As
I mentioned in my earlier posting, it is not trivial to stay upright
on a bicycle for 48 hours and road irregularities such as potholes
would indeed be a major problem.  That leaves us with an activity
comparable to auto racing.  It does *not* leave us with anything
comparable to bicycle racing.

>Well, the guy passing around most of the pseudo-scientific garbage has
>a European sounding name, and everyone knows the Euros know more about
>things cycling than we United Statesians...  so I guess he won the
>debate by virtue of FIF (foreign intimidation factor).

I may be a little more difficult to dismiss by means of simple
bigotry.  I'm as Middle American as they come.

>You are right, of course: resistance is resistance, no matter what the
>source; and removing (most) of the air resistance simply moves rolling
>resistance and other mechanical stuff to the head of the line.  WHICH
>STILL HAS TO BE OVERCOME BY THE RIDER.  

If people don't believe you when you shout, try saying it three times.

>As I've said in this group
>before, I have had significant contact with some of these RAAM guys,
>Secrest included, and have SEEN and TRIED what they do...  And they
>are astonishing athletes.  Period.  

No argument here.  I'm just curious why one of these fine athletes
feels the need to engage in a blatant and essentially meaningless
publicity stunt.  I can imagine several very good answers, mostly
having to do with money.  If it brings publicity and sponsorship into
ultra-marathon cycling, fine.

>And I am also sick of the Euros
>scoffing at their achievements, calling them "neanderthals" and the
>like.  It's simply arrogance rationalizing ignorance.  

Where's the quantifier?  "Some" or "All"?  When the quantifier is
omitted one should generally assume universal.  *All* "Euros" (I
presume "Europeans") do these things?  Jobst's position on motor-
pacing is well-known and IMHO correct, but I don't remember his
ever denigrating the real athletic achievements of ultra-marathoners.
A few years ago a European racer was quoted as saying that anyone
in the TdF pack could win the RAAM.  Newspapers tend to pick up
that sort of thing, but I doubt that many people take it seriously.
Is there an area of contention here that I'm not aware of?

-- Don Varvel (varvel@cs.utexas.edu)