HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jfe@alchemy.tn.cornell.edu (Brian Chung)
Subject: Re: Individualism  (was: Re: Orange-jok)
Organization: Alchemy International
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:21:46 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.191202.12786@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> kim_nl@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Nina L Kim) writes:
>
>   I did not mean communism when I used the word 'unity-oriented'.  I
>meant the utmost respect for harmony (*not uniformity*) among groups
>and the belief that 'I exist because others exist.' Some view that
>this kind of belief counts for Japan's economic success. Many
>educators in America are now redirecting their educational goal to more
>group-oriented one, for rugged individualism is reaching its limit.

	You may not mean communism, but your belief is certainly a
part of Leninism.  In _Imperialism_, Lenin wrote that in a communist
society, everyone will exist not only for oneself, but more for the
good of the others.  But I digress.  (I have a final in this and other
fascinating stuff in a few hours, so, forgive me.)  Utmost respect
for harmony has its drawbacks, the operative word being "utmost".  
Edith Cresson was pretty much on target when she compared Japanese
to ants.  (It applies to Koreans, too, unfortunately.)  Too much
emphasis on harmony leads to uniformity and group mentality.  It
suppresses innovation and individiualism in favor of efficiency
and the common good.  As even Mr. Spock found out, needs of the many
does not always outweigh the needs of the few or the one.  We need
to balance between harmony and individualism.



-- 
T. H. Brian Chung                      | Happiness is...              
Internet: jfe@alchemy.tn.cornell.edu   | "Tea, Earl Grey, hot."
Bitnet: jfe@cornella                   | 210 Lake St. Apt. 11-A 
DECnet: CESR10::THC                    | Ithaca, NY 14850  Tel: 607-272-1543 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim)
Subject: Re: Orange-jok
Reply-To: jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:26:54 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.062717.10343@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> kim_nl@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Nina L Kim) writes:
>
>   It seems to me that the most of followups regarding orange-jok
>were in the line of "what do you care how they spend their money, it's
>their rights." I am not sure whether this was a reaction to 'ethical'
>nature of the original posting or everyone is firm believers of
>individualism.

There are lots of individualist lurking in this group, yes. (including
yours truly :) )  In my case, it's not that I am such a firm believer, but
it was more of an allergic reaction.  I am kind of sick and tired of "We
are in trouble unless we do something" and usually the answer is the
yet one too many regulation.  

>It is extremely difficult for the lower class to move
>upward in the present Korean system.  It's only natural that these
>people feel angered and frustrated in facing such people like orange-jok.

Very rightfully so.  However, if we are looking for an answer, we will have
to look beyond this orange-jok stuff.  Doing anything against these
orange-jok will be merely superficial.  How about starting to work on
providing the alternatives to these kids?

>   I know I am repeating what everyone heard all too many times. I
>certainly have not experienced how these people really feel. Only
>thing is that no matter how valid the theory is, human feeling
>shouldn't be ignored.  Personally I do not believe in kind of 
>individualism America is tending towards.  I find unity-oriented
>philosophy more sound and  perhapse more functional for today's
>societies.

American culture might be too extreme in Korean situations.  It is also
true, however, Koreans get a tad overreacting on these issues and impose a
little too many regulations out of panic.  Extreme is no good, either way. 

>   As for 'rap music' issue, I agree with the rest of followups. (I
>thought that Su Taeji group is quite talented: I never liked rap until
>I listened to them.  And from what I saw from the interview on tv,
>they seem to be smart too)

I don't know too much about these guys, but I heard Suh TaeJi was a leader
of "Si-Na-Wi".  Is it true?  If I remember correctly, they played some hard
stuff, pretty close to heavy metal.  Now *that* is what I call a career
transformation.  Metaller turned out to be a rapper.  It will never happen
here... 

>Because Korea is not middle-class oriented culture and its elitism,
>there is very little respect for mainstream. 

Give it a time.  The term "Middle Class" was really irrelevant in Korea not
too long ago.

> I doubt that any Korean 
>universities will ever have course on Goo bong Su or Su Taeji unlike
>Harvard and other universities offering courses on Madona.

They do?  And do they use "Sex" as text?  Sign me on !!!  :)

>
>Nina Kim
>kim_nl@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
>

Andy Kim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: "Suh Jung Yul" <jysuh@moose.cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: YS projected as a winner
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:40:37 -0500



	SEOUL, South Korea (UPI) -- Kim Young-sam of the majority Democratic
Liberal Party jumped into an early lead and then ran away toward a
certain win in Friday's election to pick South Korea's first genuine
civilian president in more than three decades.
	With 61.8 percent of the 24.1 million ballots opened, the state-run
Korean Broadcasting System called the majority party leader the
projected winner.
	A computer projection by KBS said Kim Young-sam would triumph with 9.
96 million votes against Kim Dae Jung of the Democratic Party with 7.98
million votes and Chung Ju-yung of the United People's Party with 3.86
million votes.
	The figures for the three leading contenders were the averages
between the maximum and minimum numbers of votes they were likely to
get.
	With 79.7 percent of ballots counted, Kim Young-sam was in front with
7,966,090 votes or 42.1 percent, followed by Kim Dae Jung with 6,425,906
votes or 34.0 percent, and Chung Ju-yung with 3,028,093 votes or 16.0
percent. Four other candidates shared the rest.
	A final tabulation by the Central Election Management Committee said
24.1 million people or 81.9 percent of the 29.42 million eligible voters
took part in the elections. Voter turnout was 89.2 percent in the last
presidential elections held in December 1987.
	The wide vote margin in favor of Kim Young-sam was a surprise to most
political analysts, who had expected a close duel to unfold between the
two front-runners.
	A favorite-son phenomenon was clearly visible once again. Kim Dae
Jung grabbed more than 90 percent of total votes cast in the three
southwestern provinces, his home base, while Kim Young-sam mustered more
than 70 percent support in three southeastern provinces.
	The winner will succeed President Roh Tae Woo who will step down on
Feb. 25 at the close of a five-year term, and bring to an end a
succession of rule by generals-turned-presidents which began in 1961.
From: v123ptyu@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Sungwoo Kim)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Wanted: Korean BBS telephone number.
Date: 14 Dec 92 13:24:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Do any one of you out there who can inform me of Korean BBS number that 
I can call within Korea?
If so, please tell me about procedures and precautions as well as
the system that the BBS supports.
I appreciate any help there is.
Please contact me within next five days.

		-Sungwoo  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: 7007_5566@uwovax.uwo.ca (Henry E Chon)
Subject: Telnetting ara.kaist.ac.kr
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 19:32:38 GMT

-- 
***************************************************************************

Henry E Chon
7007_5566@uwovax.uwo.ca
hechon@uwovax.uwo.ca
University of Western Ontario, London, Canada

"Do not worry about your problems in Mathematics, I can assure you mine are
 still greater."  A. Einstein
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: KOrean Presidental Election News Request
From: choi@cstp.umkc.edu
Date: 17 Dec 92 09:31:04 -0600
Organization: UM - Kansas City, Computer Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: vax2.cstp.umkc.edu

Dear Netters,
Are there any voluteers to post the progree of Korean Presidential Election?
Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Young B. Choi

Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: kim_nl@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Nina L Kim)
Subject: Re: Re: DJ for President -- 2
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 05:50:04 GMT


   Is it true that DJ was nominated for Nobel Prize for peace?
   I remember during one lecture at Cornell, the professor was
discussing how Nobel Peace Prize is least respected among others and
he gave examples of nomination of Kim Dae Joong along with other undeserving
nominees and winners.
  If DJ was really nominated, what exactly was he nominated for?

Nina Kim

Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: wyg9633@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Wooed Sun)
Subject: Re: korean president election 
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:08:12 GMT

kim@magneto.physics.auburn.edu (Han-jung Kim) writes:

>for english only user, run  a command "finger .election@baram.kaist.ac.kr 92


>For hangul screen, type"telnet baram.kaist.ac.kr 92".

>Those two command show the current result of korean president poll
>                            

>Thanks to kaist student who update the result every minute.


I guess that all those kaist people must have gone home; I can only see
the vote counts of "00{Si} 04{Pun}" for hours.  Can someone please post
the most updated counts?  Thanks.
-- 
email : w-yang@uiuc.edu (wyg9633@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu)
From: dskim@eng.umd.edu (Daeshik Kim)
Subject: Re: Rapping on Korean pop/rock
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 16:34:23 GMT
Organization: What Org?

In article <62850@mimsy.umd.edu> kimy@cs.umd.edu (Yong-Mi Kim) writes:
>Does the government still ban songs by certain foreign bands?

	If I remember correctly, you won't listen any of Alice Cooper
	broadcasted, while you can listen to LSD (Lucy in the Sky with
	Diamond) from FM.

>I too am one of those people who are extremely disappointed by Korean
>pop/rock.  It's just not rock music, and it's pretty abysmal as pop
>music.  Has anybody Korean ever hit the hit charts outside of Korea
>and Japan?

	There were some; however, none of them I liked.

	There are some good band or singers, but not good song writers.
	Some of them were really impressive especially in live;
	but you can hardly find good songs.

>Anyway, one thing I've noticed about Korean pop music is that you
>can sing along to most of the stuff.

	Not the real good ones though, which is hard to find.

	However, if you see some good band or rock group sing
	someone-else's song, you'll see what I mean; I've
	seen one playing and singing Hotel California (Eagles)/
	Stairway to heaven on some bar, and was very impressed
	- and most of the hard rockers looked pretty good
	as long as they don't sing their own song; there was
	a live-music bar run by Sin JungHyeon (yes, the music psyco.)
	on Itaewon St., they had pretty good number of
	uknown-to-public-psyco-but-good singers/bands.
-- 
	Daeshik Kim	H: (703) 273-1517 O: (703) 689-5878
	DAESHIK.KIM@sprintintl.sprint.com	dskim@eng.umd.edu
	/PN=Daeshik.Kim/O=SprintIntl/ADMD=Telemail/C=US/@Sprint.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim)
Subject: Good Names Anyone? (was Re: our names were chosen along time ago)
Reply-To: jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:38:29 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.182748.3604@news.acns.nwu.edu> phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi) writes:
>
>The kids who were named under that circumstance ended up being somewhat of
>an odd-ball who do not share much in common with the cousins of the same
>generation.  Indeed, names may have some effect on the bearer's fate.
>
>James Choi
>

I agree.  Depending on the name, the kid go could go through tremendous
mental trauma.  There was a some kind of Minister (of Education?), named Yi
Sae Gi.  I always wondered what kind of childhood he had.

While we are on this subject...

How about a Name Contest?

You see, I am expecting my first baby next June.  I recently asked my
parents and found out my kids' last character is supposed to be "Bae".  For
some reason, I wasn't really thrilled, since I keep coming up with
nonsence like "Do Bae", "Sun Bae", "Hoo Bae" and stuff.  Is there anyone
who can think of good names?  Most likely if will be boy's name, since they
are less strict about girls names and I don't think there are any pretty
girl's name with "Bae".   Hell, if I can't find any good names, I might
just forget about this "dolim" stuff and just go for whatever I like.  I
would rather have him a cool name than a dorky name.  (How about Flash?)

Oh, I also would like the suggestions for English Name too, since I will
need one.  So here goes...

Rule:	Any name, any sex, English or Korean.  In case of Korean names,
        preferably with "Bae" at the end, but don't matter.  The name you
	always wished that you would have.

Deadline: 	June, '93.  

Criteria: 	Whatever I and my wife like.  If you give me a boy's name
		and if we get a girl, you don't win.

Prize:		The new born baby's first diaper bronzed.


Thank you for your corporation.

Andy Kim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: tchoi@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Behavior.
Reply-To: tchoi@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 04:14:50 GMT

Recently I read an article on sexual behavior in 'Nature' journal.
For who don't read this journal, here I post some funny statistics.
Some French investigators surveyed sexual behavior of 20,055 people.
Here are some data (of age 18 - 34).
	Age at first intercourse :     17    (Gee, I should be ashamed!)
	Multipartner (1 year)    :     21%   (     speechless          )
	Homosexuality            :     3.3%
	Intercourse with prostitutes : 4.3%
For more information, read the article (Nature, Vol 360. 407 - 412).
From: ogpaik@ugcs.caltech.edu (Paris_Lover)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: testing
Date: 18 Dec 1992 22:51:32 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: torment.ugcs.caltech.edu
Summary: testing
Keywords: testing

kd
I am tsting
I am testing this file. so please igognore this.
From: hnkst2+@pitt.edu (Hanhwe N Kim)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Re: DJ for President -- 2
Date: 15 Dec 92 12:02:19 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

swkim@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu writes:
 I had written:
  I'd be alot more interested in the elections if they allowed absentee
  ballots for students studying abroad. Just my 2 cents worth of nit
  picking and complaining but do you remember DJ's position on tax
  reform(kum-yung-sil-myung-je) several years ago when people were
  pushing for it and before YS Kim joined Roh? Correct me if I'm wrong, 
  ....
>
>I am also sick and tired that everybody tries to just find fault with
>the other's remark. (to hang down while holding the tale of horse.)
>I need positive, progressive, and aggressive suggestion.

I was offering DJ Kim supporters a chance to clarify DJ Kim's positions
and actions concerning the move for Tax reform several years ago in
the National Assembly. My impression of what he did at that time is
the major reason I do not trust his sincerity concerning Tax reform,
which is the top reason I dislike him.
You could convince me not to dislike him better by:
1) Explaining whether my impression of his foot dragging was wrong.
And if it is wrong what happened in detail concerning those events,
aimed specifically at why I got the misconception that DJ Kim was
dragging his feet.
2) If indeed DJ Kim was not enthusiastic about tax reform
at that time as I suspect, why anyone should trust him now.

Admittedly my memory for the details has faded somewhat. I do
remember feeling really bad about YS Kim and DJ Kim after following 
the press on that issue for quite a while.
-Hanhwe Kim
From: mj03@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (MINHO JO)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: MINJJA vs MINJOO
Date: 21 Dec 92 02:09:44 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Dec20.150650.903@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>,
shlee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Seunghun Lee) writes:


>I just wish that our people is now mature enough
>to realize that we should choose by party not by individual.
>
>ok so we have another 5-year MINJJA party gorvernment.
>sounds horrible, but let's face it.
>if they do right, they will get our full support
>if they do wrong, will get severe criticism.
>fair enough?

>to judge that, we have to see
>what kind of guys with what kind of ideas would be in next cabinet.
>just guys who will do anything to keep their previleges?
>if so, they will probably try to do the followings.

> * worst scenario
>  A) in politics
>       : 1) no local-government election in near future
>         2) they'll change the National Assembley Election Law
>       from SO-SUN-GEO-GU to JUNG-SUN-GEO-GU.
>         3) after get enough sits, change the Presidential Law
>       to NAE-GAK-CHAK-IM-JAE
>         4) and they will live happily ever after.
>
>  B) in economy
>       : 1) no GEUM-YUNG-SIL-MYUNG-JAE (they promised to do it)
>         2) favor of GAEBUL to middle and small company
>         3) open agriculture market
>               (YS promosed to keep it closed or death,
>               some netters said he is THE mr. HONEST, we'll see)
>
>
>OR, for the god's sake, many new faces with new IDEA in next cabinet.
>then opposite of the above scenario would happen.
>
>Let us all keep our eyes on it!
>
>Sincerely
>
>************************************
>       Seunghun Lee
>       Dept of Physics
>       Johns Hopkins Univ.
>       Baltimore, MD 21218
>
>
>anyone who want to mail, pls to
>       e-mail: shl@holger.pha.jhu.edu
>not to jhunix.
>*************************************




Yeh,  it is possible.   What I am worried about is that YS is surrounded

by Aboo-Gun.  Another trgedy scinario is that the next power after

the YS's term is taken over by the TK group like Kim Yoon Hwan,

Gem Jin Ho,  Jung Ho Yong,  and so on.   It is fairly possible to

do it in order to keep thier previleges.   Thus,  we should have

cut the bad tradition in the election.   If they really happen

repetedly,  Your and your country's future is in darkeness.

Anyway,  we missed the train,  so that we have to ride the next

train.   The expecting candidate for the train may be as following:


                    Kim Sang-Hyun

                    Lo Mu-Hyun

                    Lee Chul

                    Kim Jung-Gill

                    Lee Boo-Young

                    Shin Gi-Ha

                    Hong Sa-Duk

                    LEE GI-TAIK  (In reality, he is the most possible
                                  candidate even if he is not really
                                  new generation politician)

                    OR,

                    Other Dark Horses like myself (It's joking).



              Minho Jo,  Lehigh University
              Computer Integrated Manufacturing Lab.,
              Industrial Engineering Department
From: babar+@pitt.edu (Jonggu Moon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: our names were chosen along time ago
Date: 15 Dec 92 13:40:47 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

I heard that our names    

 -family name- -first given name- -middle given name-

were pre set a looooooong time ago by the clan patriarch.

Every family, ( shin, park, kang, moon, lee etc etc )
has some kind of really old book
and whenever a child is born, the parents go back to
korea and look up what the kid's name should be.

Also that one of those given names will be shared among
all the sibblings so that

generation Nth:    Lee Sang Cho,  Lee Sang Hwa, Lee Sang Kyu
generation (N+1)th Lee Jun Ho,    Lee Chang Ho, Lee Jung Ho

see how the generation given name alternates from first to second
from generation to generation

Any body like to agree or correct me ?

- moon jong gu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: dskim@eng.umd.edu (Daeshik Kim)
Subject: Re: Korean pop song and election
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 01:49:15 GMT
Organization: What Org?

In article <1992Dec20.012823.16674@news.acns.nwu.edu> phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi) writes:
>Ironically, I see some relationship between Korean pop music that we have
>been bashing and defending, and Korean politics.

	Hmm.. can you see thru clothes?

>Every single election had one predictable result.  Whoever that stood for
>"business as usual" won.  When you think about, how can you expect politics
>to be innovative in the land where even the art tends to be same thing all
>the time.  Specially the lyrics.

	James, you must be boared pretty badly like I do.
-- 
	Daeshik Kim	H: (703) 273-1517 O: (703) 689-5878
	DAESHIK.KIM@sprintintl.sprint.com	dskim@eng.umd.edu
	/PN=Daeshik.Kim/O=SprintIntl/ADMD=Telemail/C=US/@Sprint.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: shlee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Seunghun Lee)
Subject: Re: To Brian Chung ( From the poster of "DJ for President" )
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:47:28 GMT

Hi, Mr. Jo.

I have been reading JHUNIX network without sending any message.
Anyway, I was very glad to see that many people concern our
country's future seriously no matter whoever they favor, and no matter
if they are in political cynicism. 
But there is one thing that we all totally agree.
That this election is very important one in our history.
and the problems our country is facing and next government should solve
are 1) economy, 2) social equality 3) reunification, etc.
And we all agree we need change. (all candidates insist they will change
our country - ok so they also agree on that)

So the choice for our people is clear;
	Vote for someone who is able and willing to solve those.

And many netters have spoken their opinions.
Mainly based on judging each candidate as a person.
That I don't want to get involved.
Instead, i want to look at what kind of people surrounds around
each candidate. Since it would be them who will form most part of next cabinet.

Around YS (in MINJA) there are Chung WonSik who served for Rho's government
and who was a member of SA-BUK-CHUNG-NYUN-DAN when he was young in 50's.
SA-BUK-CHUNG-NYUN-DAN was very notorious to blame any opponent against
SeungMan Lee as a communist and kill them at that time.
and now he is blaming DJ as a communist. - is he still living in 50's??
and Kim YunWhan who served for many regimes, park, chun, rho.
and other old guys who are just scared to lose their previleges.

Around DJ, (in MINJOO) there are Park YoungSook, Lee BooYoung, 
Lee HaeChan, Park Gyedong, Lee Chul, Rho MooHyun, 
and more who have worked for our country's democracy
and social justice and reunification.  

So the choise for our people is simple.
if want status quo, vote for YS (MINJA),
if you want real change and new faces, vote for DJ (MINJOO).

In these reasons, if I am now in korea, I would cast my vote for DJ.

		Sincerely
		Seunghun Lee

*********************************************
	Dept of physics
	Johns Hopkins University
	Baltimore, MD 21218

	e-mail : shl@holger.pha.jhu.edu
*********************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean