HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wkl1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Wing-Keong Loke                                               the consummate chronic prevaricator)
Subject: Re: Naked Man on Campus
Keywords: public nudity
Organization: Mississippi State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:32:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.104503.16363@news.cs.indiana.edu> "Amy Young Leith" <alyoung@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
>In article <BxtnDM.DG1@encore.com> aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich) writes:
>
>
>But you aren't "forcing" someone to be uncomfortable.  If they have a
>problem with nudity, it's their problem, not yours.  Just like if
>someone has a phobia of the color blue, am I supposed to not wear blue
>just so they won't have a fit?  (Analogy is not airtight, so if you
>can say no more than rag on the analogy, we know you have nothing else
...<stuff deleted>

>
>amy
>-- 
>alyoung@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu for personal mail
>			    All business mail to alyoung@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>       I only speak for myself.  Anyone who thinks differently is a fool.
>

	Oooh, I really like your logic.  So, if I rag on your analogy ONLY,
I have nothing else to say, huh?  How about
	(1) Maybe I WANT to rag only on your analogy
	(2) I particularly dislike your analogy
	(3) Maybe I think you're right but that your analogy is way of
logically.
	(4) I CAN'T HELP PASSING AN IMPLIED DARE!!!

	To wit, your analogy doesn't work because the problem is situational
and dependent on societal acceptance of what is/not acceptable.  Otherwise,
somebody would claim that since it's all right to take up arms to protect
one's country, it's equally all right to take up arms against people who
do you wrong--say a drunk driver runs down a family member.  Or, if one is
free to urinate/defecate anywhere in the privacy of one's house, one can do
the same in the public.

	The problem is that your whole argument rests on the stability of
your analogy.  If your analogy isn't right, your claim goes down the drain
with it.  So, if I rag your analogy only, it doesn't implies that I
have nothing to say.  More correctly, I see that as the weak link in the
chain.  Of course, there are a lot of deleted stuff that you wrote about.
So, even my refutation is not in itself concrete but situtational, i.e.
applicable only in the case of your analogy and does not imply anything
else.

Wing-Keong Loke

Newsgroups: soc.men
From: Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Feinsteinism
X-To: KURT STRAIN
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 01:33:00 GMT

kurts@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Kurt Strain) writes...
KS> Here in California we elected two new women Senators.  A lot of men helped
KS> to make their victories possible.  They are Dianne Feinstein and Barbara
KS> Boxer.  So what do I see on the news last night?  There's both of them
KS> standing hand-in-hand and Dianne quips "The roosters may crow all night, but
                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
KS> the hens get the job done."  Thanks, Dianne, sorry us worthless roosters
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
KS> voted your ass in.  I guess being a new woman Senator she's entitled to
KS> certain female Senatorial low blows.


What a bunch of assholes!  (How many times have you caught me swearing?  Not
many.  So yes, this *does* steam me...)

And not only that, they're ungrateful twits, too!  ("Gee, why don't we just
ignore all the men who helped us, and insult them all at our victory speech?
Yeah, that's the ticket...").

I wonder what their reaction would be, if someone replied ...

"Just like I told you - Never give a woman the floor unless she's got her back
against it!"

(From "Murphy Brown" - the "Tony Rocket" episode...)

---
Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                      "Neil Hull is GOiD"
ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids            "GOiDS Rule"
(416) 322-7876

"Cthulhu for President in '92 - Why vote for the _lesser_ of two evils?"
                                                          - Bronis Vidugiris
---
 * SLMR 2.1a * Galahad: (confused) The Castle Anthrax??
Xref: sparky soc.men:19342 soc.women:19637 talk.abortion:48035
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Abortion and humanity
From: <RIPBC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Sunday, 15 Nov 1992 14:27:27 EST
 <1992Nov12.172437.15438@cbnewsk.cb.att.com><Bxru9v.G7J@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

-From: smithmc@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Lost Boy)
-
-I quote an old but useful pro-choice chant...
-
-A fetus ain't a person until it comes out
-That's what birthdays are all about
-
-Lost Boy

  You `lost' me.  Are we supposed to conclude that `if it rhymes, it must
be true'?  If THAT is the logic, I am prepared to produce a couple of
rhymes myself!!

Rohit Parikh
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: prostate exams
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:12:05 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Nov20.144422.7852@netcom.com> ekman@netcom.com (Crossly the Glad-Eyed Bear) writes:
>It seems that many men will go to great lengths to avoid the digital
>exam.  A bit invasive, and undignified, perhaps, but nothing compared
>with what women routinely go through.  Ask any woman about a cold

	And just what does "how women feel about pelvic exams" have anything
to do with "how men SHOULD feel about prostate exams" ?  

									wr
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: wendy
Date: 23 Nov 92 16:03:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Nov22.032913.24080@news.Hawaii.Edu> mwasson@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Michael Wasson) writes:
>"being in the other person's shoes" is just a thought-experiment.  She's
>actually done it.  Have you?  *I* haven't.  

	Frankly, the point of view of someone who hated the body/gender/sex
she was born with enough to put herself through a change of sex hardly strikes
me as objective and unbiased.
From: erik@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Erik Lode)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:10:48 GMT
Subject: Misandrist quotes wanted
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: soc.men

  From time to time I see infamous quotations used in people's sigs,
such as the "All men are potential rapists ..." quote from Susan
Brownmiller (?) and the "Men vs. compassion" quote from Barbara
Jordan (?).

  I'm not really sure I want to do this, but I would like to accumulate
a list of such "colorful" quotes with correct attribution--who said/wrote
it, when, where, etc.

  Please post them or send via email.  Thanks.

Newsgroups: soc.men
From: jsw@cray.com (Jon S. Wood)
Subject: Re: Male Choice Revi (1)
Reply-To: jsw@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 18 Nov 92 11:36:36 CST

In article 1ebu7hINNchd@gap.caltech.edu, peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri) writes:
>regard@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Nov17.180422.14301@sei.cmu.edu> firth@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Firth) writes:
>>>In article <1eb9ucINNjb0@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com> regard@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard) writes:
>
>>>>People lie.  We all know this.  We *all* know this.  Therefore, relying
>>>>upon the word of another person is AUTOMATICALLY stupid.  That's where
>>>>the whole growth of the legal industry sprang from.
>>>>Now, if you want to be a disingenuous idiot, go ahead.
>>>
>>>Life is full of hard choices, isn't it?  But, you know, if the choice
>>>really was that hard, then yes, I'd rather be a disingenuous idiot,
>>>than live my life in the manner implied by the above posting.
>
>What is so hard about donning a condom to protect yourself?
>
  Is it then logical to say that when a teenage mother age 17 decides
to raise the child that it is not societies responsibility to provide
her day-care, food stamps and housing? I think the communities response
would sound something like; "what was so hard about keeping your legs
crossed?", or does it only apply to 'certain' politically correct
responsibilities when personal responsibility is involved. 


 Everybody wants to help
the poor child and mother AFTER her legs have spread. Our current 
trend is to hand out condoms, provide sex education and create after
she spread her legs/he poked her programmes that perpetuate personal 
irresponsibility. "Now that I have screwed up, what is the community
going to do for me NOW." 
 
Newsgroups: soc.men
From: firth@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Firth)
Subject: Re: Abortion and humanity
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:10:29 GMT

hatcher@MSUPA.PA.MSU.EDU writes:

>The fetus has NO *inherent*, *objective* value, only that which the
>mother (and possibly father) places on it.

In article <1emil6INNnjr@gap.caltech.edu> peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri) writes:

>On the contrary.  A fetus has value as material for medical research.

And didn't the Nazis finally decide that Jews had some value, for
exactly the same reason?  There must surely be ways to present the
"pro-choice" case that don't carry a palpable stench of the abyss.
Newsgroups: soc.men
From: ekman@netcom.com (Crossly the Glad-Eyed Bear)
Subject: Re: A GREAT Night for Americans!  (Women especially!)
Organization: Home for the Terminally Infirm
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:44:22 GMT

In article <BxzIot.MMu@cs.psu.edu> beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver) writes:
>
[PSA test for prostate cancer]
>What kind of test is this?  What does PSA stand for?  How expensive
>is it (ie. how likely would a doctor recommend it)?
>
>I heard something vague about a very recently developed screening 
>technique -- is this it?
>
>twenty-something and curious,

A PSA test is a test performed on a blood sample, to measure the level
of Prostate Specific Antigen.  I have no idea of the cost, but I don't
think it's very expensive as lab tests go.  Urologists routinely have it
done with men over 40.  Unfortunately, it appears that there are still
GPs and family practitioners who don't.  

An elevated PSA level indicates unusual activity in the prostate, and is
a much more sensitive test than either the older acid phosphatase test
or a digital examination.  Detection of an elevated PSA level is usually
followed up by an ultrasound exam and possibly a biopsy.

It seems that many men will go to great lengths to avoid the digital
exam.  A bit invasive, and undignified, perhaps, but nothing compared
with what women routinely go through.  Ask any woman about a cold
speculum.  Better yet, I'll try to get my daughter to write down
something about her experience with a speculum stuck in the open
position, and the doctor critter leaving the room only to reappear with
a pair of pliers.  :-)
-- 
Crossly the Glad-Eyed Bear              ekman@netcom.com
Home for the Terminally Infirm, Redwood City, California
Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: 890530m@dragon.acadiau.ca (Darren MacKenzie)
Subject: Re: Sexual Harassment (was Re: Simon you're no ...
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:45:29 GMT

twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:

>Followups are directed out of talk.abortion and soc.women.

>In article <1992Nov22.185341.10487@dragon.acadiau.ca> 890530m@dragon.acadiau.ca (Darren MacKenzie) writes:

>>cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black) writes:
>>
>>>In article <1992Nov21.222434.4570@dragon.acadiau.ca> 890530m@dragon.acadiau.ca (Darren MacKenzie) writes:
>>>
>>>>Doesn't that sort of show homosexual tendancies??  Male penetrating
>>>>a male??  Sounds gay to me.
>>>
>>>    No, it doesn't.  Think before you post.  Or at least try to.
>>
>>I DID THINK!!  And I THINK that a male having sex with a male is homo-
>>sexuality, just by definiton!

>Are you really too brain-damaged to distinguish between action and
>desire?

Obviously, if the rape is there, so is the desire.  I can't speak from
a rapist's point of view, because I don't know it (nor do I intend to
know it).  But it seems that raping is desire to have the sex.....
-Doc

-- 
=============================================================================== The Commodore Amiga 4000 - 24 bit          16,777,216 colors (4096^2)!!         ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Buster: "Say goodnight, Babs."                                                 
Babs  : "Goodnight, Babs."                                                      I'm tiny, I'm toony, and I'm a little looney!                                   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Darren MacKenzie                                                                ("The Doctor")                                                                  890530m@aucs.acadiau.ca
===============================================================================
From: dwelch@mpd.tandem.com (Dan Welch)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:49:03 GMT
Organization: Tandem Computers (MPD) Austin, TX

>In article <riaedwards.1.721307187@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au> riaedwards@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (AUDREY EDWARDS) writes:
>
>There are many women, of mature age, whom few would regard as rad. feminist, 
>particularly ones with strong religious beliefs (in the UK, Mary Whitehouse 
>springs to mind...no doubt the US has an equivilent) who share such 
>attitudes towards the evils of "girlie mags".  Whilst I don't share there 
>views (my distaste is on aesthetic, rather than moral or censorship 
>grounds), and certainly see no direct link between such material and 
>rape, I wouldn't dream of dismissing such people as "insecure".

OK, how's this.  They're either insecure, misled, or just plain stupid.
I think that ought to cover things pretty well.

Just for the record, I think most people on the "evil" side of this arguement
are misled, not insecure or stupid, though I can think of quite a few who
fall into all three categories.

Daniel Welch
From: bf479@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Russell Jackson II)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Mel Feit's Consensual Sex Contract
Date: 20 Nov 1992 02:19:11 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I just saw on the show, "Hard Copy", that the attorney Mel Feit was recently
distributing copies of a "Consensual Sex Agreement" in New York.

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of this?

Thanks in advance.
bf479@cleveland.freenet.edu

p.s. am also interested in any other such contracts

Xref: sparky soc.men:19501 alt.dads-rights:2633 soc.women:19821 misc.legal:20106 misc.kids:28680
From: bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com (J H Woodyatt)
Subject: More Weirdness from the <Re: Back Again To Father> Thread
Reply-To: bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com
Organization: Abiogenesis 4 Less
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:13:38 GMT

forb0004@student.tc.umn.edu (Eric Forbis) writes:
# dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan King) writes:
# >Are you proposing spousal notification for men getting a vasectomy?  
# >Currently there is no such requirement that I am aware of.
# > 
# >Husbands and wives talking may be a good thing, but is it worth 
# >letting government get involved to ensure they talk?  We would all
# >have to give up much of our privacy to ensure this.  I have had 
# >a vasectomy.  If I were to ever marry, I think it should remain
# >my choice if I do or don't inform my wife of this fact.  I very
# >much oppose someone using force of government into my personal
# >decision.
# 
# Hey ladies, this is _great_! How do you like it when the shoe's on the other 
# foot? Marry this character and you may not find out for years that you won't 
# be able to have children. His decision dramatically alters your life, yet 
# he denies you your right to know of such decisions. Without saying as much, 
# he has drastically devalued the status of motherhood; yours isn't worth even 
# the pittance of keeping you informed.
# 
# What goes around comes around, I guess.

Goodness gracious me, who left the cage door open on the full moon?

`Drastically devalued the status of motherhood' by having a vasectomy?

Chills.  Big ones.  Wearing T-shirts with numbers on them.

This bozo is actually arguing for government enforcement of good
communication among married couples.

!!!??!!


-- 
+---------------------------+  ``Democracy is the theory that the common 
| J H Woodyatt              |  people know what they want, and deserve to
| bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com |  get it good and hard.''
+---------------------------+                              -- H L Mencken
From: dgross@zeus.calpoly.edu (Dave Gross)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Re: Spot the Absurdity
Date: 21 Nov 92 20:25:11 GMT
Organization: Manumission:  The Campus Men's Forum

In article <By04n0.5zr@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> dmcanzi@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (David Canzi) writes:
>(Article from Kitchener-Waterloo Record, Sep 4, 1992)
>
>	Women's groups plan protests at sex-choice clinic
>
>Vancouver(CP)-British Columbia women's groups say they will stage
>protests if a Toronto doctor opens a sex-selection clinic in
>Vancouver....
>     "Basically he's marketing to the prejudice that already exists in
>our society against women," said Sunera Thobani of Vancouver, head of
>the reproductive technologies committee of the National Action
>Committee for the Status of Women.
>     "The provision of this kind of technology is really disgusting."
>     Thobani called on the federal and provincial governments to ban
>the technology, which she said discriminates against females before
>they're even born.

	Absurdity, part 1:

Sex selection technology already exists, and in fact is used most often
in this country to select against male babies (or, in fact to abort male
fetuses) mostly in cases where there is a male-linked genetic disease in
the family.

	Absurdity, part 2:

Dianne Feinstein, when she was running against Pete Wilson for
California Governor a while back (she lost, and then successfully ran
for the Senate), said she would support restrictions on sex-selection
abortions.  Pro-choice activists and feminists raised an uproar, and
Dianne changed her mind.
-- 
***************** INTERNET: dgross@polyslo.csc.calpoly.EDU ********************
"Whom the gods would destroy, they first drive mad.  Whom the gods would drive
 mad, they first inflame with a desire to bring peace to the Middle East."
				-- Irving Kristol
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,talk.abortion
From: mon@cray.com (Muriel Nelson)
Subject: Re: compromise
Distribution: na
Date: 20 Nov 92 09:48:10 CST

In article <nyikos.722214039@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:

>Otherwise I'm out of luck, eh?  I'll just have to live on with the
>delusion that Doug's deletions are molehills compared to Garvin's 
>mountains.

Sheeeeeesh.  Mountains?  Some fantasy, Petey.

muriel
standard disclaimer

From: erik@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Erik Lode)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:13:01 GMT
Subject: MacDonalds' father-friendly ads
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: soc.men

  I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but MacDonald's is starting to
produce some father-friendly commercials.  I'm sure I don't see all the
commercials they produce, but the last one involved a boy bringing his
father in for show-and-tell and ending with "He's my best friend."

  It's a nice change of pace from the "Mom!  Dad's ironing!" ads.

Xref: sparky soc.men:19821 alt.politics.homosexuality:7538
From: xenon@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Sexual Harassment (was Re: Simon you're no ...
Date: 23 Nov 92 11:08:55 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <By5Iu1.EH1@unix.amherst.edu>, twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
> In article <1992Nov22.215624.2642@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> xenon@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
> 
>>In article <By527E.F9@unix.amherst.edu>, twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>>
>>> Repeated violent rape by men of other men, for no reason other than
>>> the rape itself, is more indicative of someone who has not come to
>>> terms with their own sexuality than someone who has.
>>
>>Seems like that would make it *more* likely to be a gay person; in a
>>predominately straight society it seems it would be is a lot easier for 
>>straights to "come to terms with their own sexuality" because there is no
>>opposition to it.
> 
> Not-gay != straight.  Repressed homosexual desire?  Certainly.  Gay?
> You've got to be kidding.

If a guy is running around raping people, it doesn't sound to me like he's
"repressing" his desires.  And your distiction between "people with homosexual
desires" and "gay people" seems pretty arbitrary.  There are probably a lot more
homosexuals in the closet than there are out of it.

- x



> 
> -- 
> ____ Tim Pierce                / 
> \  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
>  \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Xref: sparky soc.men:19794 alt.politics.homosexuality:7529
From: xenon@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Sexual Harassment (was Re: Simon you're no ...
Date: 22 Nov 92 16:56:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: drycas.1992Nov22.215624.2642
Followup-To: soc.men,alt.politics.homosexuality
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <By527E.F9@unix.amherst.edu>, twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
> Followups are directed out of soc.women.
> 
> In article <1992Nov22.120651.2640@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> xenon@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
> 
>>>>kc2@doc.ic.ac.uk (K Campbell) writes:
>>>>
>>>>>After a recent spate of particularly vicious and violent male rapes
>>>>>in London ...
>>>>>comment from leading
>>>>>criminal psychologists about how it is unlikely that the incidents had
>>>>>been carried out by gay men.  
>>
>>I agree that there is no *certainty* that the perpetrators of these crimes are
>>gay, but why is it "unlikely"?   Are gays "kinder and gentler" than other men? 
>>Gays don't rape?
> 
> Repeated violent rape by men of other men, for no reason other than
> the rape itself, is more indicative of someone who has not come to
> terms with their own sexuality than someone who has.

Seems like that would make it *more* likely to be a gay person; in a
predominately straight society it seems it would be is a lot easier for 
straights to "come to terms with their own sexuality" because there is no
opposition to it.  I have never heard of anyone being "in the closet" about
being straight.  I seriously doubt that gays as a class have fewer sexual
hangups than straights... just different ones... ;)

-xenon
Xref: sparky soc.men:19846 soc.women:20199
From: jk@panix.com (Jim Kalb)
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women
Subject: Re: Sexual Harassment (was Re: Simon you're no ...
Keywords: You expect me to mark my deletions?  Dream on...
Date: 23 Nov 92 19:34:04 GMT
Organization: Institute for the Human Sciences

In <1992Nov23.151108.11827@ux1.cts.eiu.edu> cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black) writes:

>Male-male sex is not necessarily homosexuality.
>As Tim P. points out, the former is action; the latter is orientation or
>desire.

Is is possible for a man to commit what people usually call rape if he
lacks sexual desire?
-- 
Jim Kalb (jk@panix.com)
"Alles Erworbne bedroht die Maschine, solange
sie sich erdreistet, im Geist, statt im Gehorchen, zu sein."  (Rilke)
Xref: sparky soc.men:19866 soc.women:20234