From: hees@cubic.com (Phil Hees)
Subject: Re: Woody and Mia
Organization: Romantics, Dreamers and Steely-Eyed Cynics, Anonymous
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 04:40:04 GMT
Followup-To: alt.sex

In article <1992Aug24.205204.10923@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>Folks, let's look at the Newsgroups: line a bit closer, OK?  This
>thread has (for some stupid reason) been cross-posted to:
>
>rec.humor (I fail to find this situation funny)
>alt.sex.bondage (I didn't think they did any of that)
>alt.parents-teens (What does this have to do with parenting teens?)
>alt.polyamory
>alt.recovery
>alt.wanted.moslem.gay (is that a real group?)

Yes, the original poster (Michael Zeleny, formerly known as the
notorious Mikhail Zeleny of Harvard and Usenet fame), did cross-post
to a dozen groups.  (And alt.wanted.moslem.gay was humorous, but I've
seen better.)  However, he included in the header the following line:

    Followup-To: alt.sex

This is perfectly correct Usenet practice: cross-post to a number of
groups which may have interested readers, then bring the thread back
to one most appropriate newsgroup for continued discussion.  In fact,
this practice has been recommended in various netiquette posts.

However, the first person to post a reply, Holly Wise
(holly@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com), posted to the entire original
distribution list (mistake #1) _and_ dropped the Followup-To: line
from her message header (mistake #2).  Either she or her news reader
is broken and in need of repair.  In any event, Mr. Zeleny was not at
fault.

(ObSex: I wouldn't be so hard on Ms. Wise if she hadn't made the inane
statement that Woody "molested the older (adult)" child.  As others
have pointed out, if an adult woman consents to sexual relations with
a man, as Soon-Yi has publically stated she did, calling it child
molesting insults not only him, but her.)


>I have removed these groups from the Newsgroups: line for my response.
>I've received much too much hate-mail after inadvertatly posting my
>response without double-checking the line and posting it to very
>incorrect groups.  These groups (especially humor, polyamory, and
>recovery) do not appreciate this thread.
>
>in addition to the following (more relevant, sort of) groups:
>
>rec.arts.movies   (It's movie people)
>alt.sex (The charges involved sex)
>soc.culture.jewish (Woody is Jewish)
>soc.culture.asian.american (Mia is Asian, right?)
>soc.men (He's a man)
>soc.women (She's a woman)

Um, Mia isn't Asian, last time I looked.  Soon-Yi is.  They're both
women.  (Go ahead and flame me if I got her name wrong; I'm nowhere
near a newspaper.)

>Let's be a little less liberal in the number of groups we spread stuff
>around.

I've posted to the same six groups that David did, because I think that
knowing proper net procedure is of general importance.  I have also
reinstated the original Followup-To: line.  If your news reader doesn't
know what to do with it, edit the header yourself.  Most of us post few
enough messages that we can afford the time to look the header fields over
a bit.  Enough said.



And now back to the original grisly, sordid tale...

My sympathies are with Woody.  (Boohs and hisses from the audience.)
I have this Greek-tragedy view of romance and passion as being
overpowering forces which are not always reasoned or convenient, but
which can blow uncontrollably through people's lives and sweep them
every which way.  "Star-crossed lovers"... "ill-fated romance"...
And does anybody read Tolkien?  Luthien looks into Beren's eyes and
her doom is set... Aragorn and Arwen Evenstar plight their troth,
turning their backs on both the Darkness and the West...

... well, OK, seducing your adopted daughter doesn't have the same
heroic sense as taking on all of Mordor.  But the point is that we are
sometimes torn away from our rational choice by passions springing
from a deeper place.  Having left a good long-term relationship (plus
home and job) several years ago to dance in the wilds with a lovely
enchantress who stole my heart (who happened to be Korean-American),
I can speak with some authority on this point.  (Woody, have I got
a script for you!)

Woody got flamed for his comment about having a flair for the dramatic,
but how does one create and bring to life, as he does, without some of
those juices spilling over into the real world?  (So to speak... :)

In the meantime, he's taken flack from the newspapers, the networks,
and the Republican National Convention.  But he's bedding an (18- to
21-year-old, depending on who you listen to) Korean woman.  Um...
[caution: crude sexist and possibly racist remarks follow...]  how
many of you guys have ever made love to a young Korean woman?  I'll
probably regret saying this in an international forum, but: There
isn't anything better.  Nothing.  I've been around.  Trust me.  I
would have made a worse fool of myself than Woody has.  (Actually, I
did, but the media was looking the other way at the time.)

My sympathies are with Mia, too.  Woody and Mia were one of the great
romances of our times.  My SO and I often used them as an example of
what a committed romantic relationship could be if two people needed
to pursue their lives in their own spaces.  Just a few days before the
news broke, my SO was gushing, "And he creates roles just for her,
they've had fourteen movies together, they've adopted children, they
wave good morning to each other across Central Park..."  The morning
that the clock radio went off at 6:05 AM and the first thing we heard
was this business, her first mumbled words of the day were:

"Men are scum."

Well, at least she (Mia, not my SO) has an apartment on Central Park
West.  And she had guaranteed casting in fourteen movies, with roles
created for her by the one director who has total artistic control
whenever he works?  She didn't do too bad.  But, the future?  Sinatra,
Andre Previn, Woody (what an eclectic mix - she must have been taking
lessons from Marilyn Monroe :)... who next?

And my sympathies are with Soon-Yi, too, although to a lesser degree.
If she hasn't lost her mother, she certainly threw a wrench into their
relationship; and if/when it falls apart with Woody, she will be
orphaned for the second time in her life.  But in the meantime, she's
bedding Woody Allen.  How many of us get to ride off into the sunset
with the hero (or heroine?)  And he is one, even if he has feet of
clay.

Enough thoughts.  It's four in the morning and I have to go adopt...
er, meet a young Korean woman, somewhere in the wilds...  Hope I
generate a few followups... and don't forget to send them to alt.sex
_only_.  G'nite, folks.

--
Phil Hees
hees@cubic.com
"And the moon rose, and they danced."