Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 07:34:30 EST
From: <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
Subject: Re: Institutional racism in education
Distribution: usa
 <1992Dec4.170018.27313@fid.morgan.com>
 <1992Dec4.232818.10917@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>
 <1992Dec8.230031.28771@fid.morgan.com> <77bv02Y=2eZL01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>
 <1992Dec12.145948.923@blkbox>

In article <1992Dec12.145948.923@blkbox>, collins@blkbox (Chad R. Collins) says:
>
>kls30@cd.amdahl.com (Kent L. Shephard) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Dec8.230031.28771@fid.morgan.com>, sethb@fid.morgan.com
>>(Seth Breidbart) writes:
>
>>Because Jim Crow laws of 30 years ago didn't only say no ameriKKKan black but
>>said "NO BLACKS!".
>
>>The lgacy didn't end with slavery.  There were still laws up into the 60s
>that
>>were meant to deny black folks equal treatment under the law.  If this wasn't
>>the case why were black folks like MLK and others detained and beaten for
>>orderly demonstrations?  Why did Rosa Parks get arrested for not giving up
>>her seat to a white woman on a bus?  It didn't end 133 years ago and it
>hasn't
>>ended yet.
>
>        I believe that it the standard arguement why whites still owe
>something
>to blacks- it isnt becuase of slavery but becuase of continued discrimination.
>But then again, there are MANY groups that have had the same kind of
>discrimination- asians, jews, irish, polish, etc.- that have all risen
>above it and become successful. And the one question I have never heard
>answered very well is why this is so for most groups, but not a few- such
>as blacks. I don't mean to point to anyone and say they are a "model
>minority" or to belittle their experience, but I do think this shows that
>blacks give far to much power to the discrimination that exists, and for
>a good measure they should look to themselves for the solutions to their
>problems instead of only to others.
>
   Well Chad, I guess you need a small history lesson!  I dare you to name for
me the systemic and LEGAL discrimination that was perpetrated on asians, jews,
irish and poles since 1956?  I can name thousands of Jim Crow laws that were in
 effect until 1980 (and some later)!  Jim Crow laws were specifically against
Blacks, no other minorities were effected by these laws.  The racial discrimin-
ation is still there in hiring and other areas (see Prime Time Live, see almost
any sociological journal...).  No one is saying that the white man owes us
anything.  Nothing is OWED to us.  What is wanted is an even playing field, and
unfortunately, the only way to get one, because of the racist ideologies of
those who do the hiring (see Marge Schott) is to have such programs as AA.
From an idealistic standpoint (i.e. in an Edenistic world) AA is not needed,
but you and I know that discrimination still exists.
  You are right in one respect, Blacks should stop depending on the benevolence
of white people and get solutions on our own.  But by the same token, white
people have to get out of the ivory towers and see what is going on in the
real world.  Parks and Yoder should go to their nearest inner city Black
neighborhood and see the frustration and feeling of hopelessness that many of
my brethren possess.  How many of you have sat and talked to an unemployed
Black teen fresh out of high school, who can't get a job to begin any sort of
career because whtie people are afraid of young Black males?  It happens, it
exists!  Theoretically a lot of what a lot of people say is correct, but
realistically it simply doesn't hold!
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5317 soc.culture.african.american:12903 misc.education:5278