HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ras@controls.ccd.harris.com (Russell Soule)
Subject: Re: Accountability in CCM
Originator: ras@sp1
Organization: Harris Controls
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 16:31:35 GMT


In article <1992Aug29.191409.13871@wheaton.wheaton.edu>, rmbenn@david.wheaton.edu (Richard M. Bennema) writes:
|> In article <87307@netnews.upenn.edu> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
|> >Should Christian musicians be held accountable by their recording companies
|> >in addition to their churches?  What guidelines should said companies use,
|> >if so?  If a musician gets a divorce, for example, is that grounds for 
|> >canceling a recording contract?  What about an affair?  Driving under the
|> >influence?  Lying?  Gossiping?  In other words, which sins would be
|> >deemed acceptable, and which wouldn't?  
|> >
|> None are acceptable.  I believe the ones that will require outside action
|> (pressure, interference) would be the ones that go unrepented.  And being cut
|> off might be required if that person does not repent following confrontation.
|> This can apply to everyone, not just celebs.  But in this case, if Patti is
|> confronted that divorse is wrong and goes through with it anyway, then perhaps
|> her label does need to step in and act.

Okay, so what should be done when it's the record label itself who is doing
the sinning? I have heard that Word is actually a pretty money hungry bunch
of people. That is why they sold out to Epic records. A friend of mine now
looks very closely at what label an artist records under before he considers
purchasing an album from that artist.

Just some thoughts

|> 
|> 					Richard M. Bennema
|> --
|> rmbenn@david.wheaton.edu
|> Richard M. Bennema		"The brain can be seen as a complex machine,
|> Computer Science/Math		 like a gooey computer."
|> Wheaton College 			-Robert C. Solomon


Russ

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-      =              Jesus Christ is the answer.                    =    -
=    =====         Now, what was your question again?              =====  =
-      =                 --------------------                        =    -
=      =            God doesn't believe in atheists                  =    =
-      =  A fool says in his heart that there is no God (Psalm 14:1) =    -
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: trw@spl1.spl.loral.com (Tim R Witort)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: TANGENT: Is sarcasm appropriate for Christians?
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:53:16 GMT
Organization: Loral Software Productivity Laboratory

sar-casm \`sar-kaz-em\ n [F sarcasme, fr. LL sarcasmos, fr. Gk
sarkasmos, fr. sarkazein to tear flesh, bite the lips in rage, sneer, fr.
sark-, sarx flesh; akin to Av thwares to cut] 1: a sharp and often
satrical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain <tired of
his contemptuous ~s> 2 a: a mode of satirical wit depending
for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usu.
directed against an individual <~ is another mode of humor that
requires a master hand --E.P.J Corbett> b: the use or language of 
sarcasm <this is no time to indulge in ~> syn see WIT

(from Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary)

Maybe this will clarify the issue a bit...

-- Tim
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Keith Rice)
Subject: Re: (TANGENT) Re: The Five Points of Fundamentalism 
Organization: University of North Texas
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 01:57:22 GMT

In <1992Aug27.204107.5975@acd4.acd.com> wdo@TEFS1.acd.com (Bill Overpeck) writes:

>Nope, I didn't hear that one.  Whenever I complained about the stifling
>regulations at LBC (and that was nearly every day), someone would inevi-
>tably say something like "If you think it's restrictive here, you should
>check out Bob Jones...".  

>Methinks I wouldn't have liked it too much.  One semester at LBC was enough 
>for me.  

>Bill

I heard the same reply every time I complained at LBC as well ('84-'85).
Well, not every time.  Sometimes they said Pensacola Christian College
instead of BJU.

It was also said that PCC made BJU look like LBC.

--
Keith
drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu
From: kathy@duke.cs.duke.edu (Kathy Redding)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Which music amoral??
Date: 4 Sep 92 21:02:15 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.

In article <Btyr22.9FI.1@cs.cmu.edu> tp0x+@cs.cmu.edu (Thomas Price) writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.113921.27876@relay.nswc.navy.mil> snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) writes:
>>
>>...  Sometimes when my city is really having a hard time, with
>>drugs killings and stuff, I put praise music on my CD on REPEAT so
>>God doesn't just have to hear the *bad* stuff.
>
>Your religiosity is useless. So are you.

Then there are a lot of useless christians in the world, or which I am one.
And I guess it's wrong to follow the Scriptures that say:  "Whatsoever
things are good, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are of good
report, think on these things;" and "speak to yourselfs in psalms and hymns
and spiritual songs."  Don't have a good concordance here at work so can't
quote the exact references, but I know they are in the New Testament, and I
know that Paul wrote at least one of them.

Who died and made you God to make such a caustic judgment as what you made?
I just read an article in one of the Ministry magazines on an interview w/
Bob Fitts.  He ministers out of Hawaii going around the world teaching
people the spiritual warfare that takes place when praise and worship music
takes place.  He told of an instance in one of the eastern countries that he
led a group (and mind you, this man is one of the most humble, gentle, kind
people I've seen lead worship in a long time) of christians in worship in
front of an old idol at least the height of a man.  This idol had been there
for years, and probably decades if not longer.  The idol fell over onto the
ground either during their worship or shortly thereafter.  It was stood up
again by the people living in that area, repeatedly, and kept falling over.
They never could get it to stay up.  Circumstance?  Not on your life,
brother!  Seems to me I remember a similar story in the Old Testament of
that exact same type of thing happening sometime in Israel's history, where
idols put up by disobedient Hebrews would not remain standing after some
spiritual renewal took place in Israel.  Can't quote it but if you demand it
I can sure find it because I've read it on more than one occasion.

Don't denigrate praise and worship music.  "You know not whereof you
speak."

>
>Tom
>
>******************************************************************************
>         Tom Price  |  tp0x@cs.cmu.edu  |  Simplicity, simplicity
>******************************************************************************
>       terroristCIAassassinationJFKIran/Contradrugswirefraudcryptology


Kathy Redding						Duke University
Computer Science Dept.					Durham, NC
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: rduff@arrirs04.uta.edu (Robert Duff)
Subject: Michael Card's Song "Amen?"...
Organization: Automation and Robotics Research Institute, U Texas @ Arlington
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:13:15 GMT


The Michael Card song, whose name I don't know, that has the chorus
that goes "Amen, Praise and Glory, and Wisdom and Thanks and Honor,
and Power and Strength be to our God."  

There is a female vocalist who sings the end of the chorus: "Forever
and Ever, Amen".  Does anyone know who this singer is?  Her voice
sounds familiar.

Thanks,

===============================================================================
Robert Duff              | "Let him who boasts boast of this, that he under-
Automation and Robotics  | stands and knows me, that I am the Lord who exer-
Research Institute - UTA | cises kindness, justice, and righteousness on earth,
rduff@arri.uta.edu       | for I delight in these things." Jeremiah 9:24
--
===============================================================================
Robert Duff              | "Let him who boasts boast of this, that he under-
Automation and Robotics  | stands and knows me, that I am the Lord who exer-
Research Institute - UTA | cises kindness, justice, and righteousness on earth,
rduff@arri.uta.edu       | for I delight in these things." Jeremiah 9:24
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: harling@pictel.com (Dan Harling)
Subject: Re: U2's denomination
Organization: PictureTel Corporation
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 18:32:09 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.011342.28492@auc.trw.com> dmaxwell@dora.UUCP (Doug Maxwell) writes:
>We are also supposed to flee evil.  My point is this, should we be 
>deliberately putting ourselves into positions that compromise our values
>simply for our entertainment?

Specifically what values would we compromise by attending a U2 concert?
____________________________________________________________________________
Daniel A. Harling                        (harling@pictel.com)
PictureTel Corp.             Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of
Peabody, MA  01960                 PictureTel, but they ought to be!
From: tothmd@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Michael David Toth)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: ArkAngel "Warrior" and DA "DoppelgAnger"
Date: 26 Aug 92 02:06:32 GMT
Organization: University of Cincinnati

In article <1992Aug25.155628.2772@eecs.nwu.edu> phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre) writes:
>
>I sincerely hope that the "Warrior" re-release will stir up a new interest
>in this style of music.  And maybe even ArkAngel will be convinced to do
>another one?  We can always hope.
>
No dice on a new Arkangel.  In the liner notes of the new release from
Kemper Crabb's current band of Arkangel shrapnel, RadioHalo, it said in
Latin: "Arkangel is dead - long live RadioHalo."  It's a shame.  With a
couple exceptions, the RadioHalo _Illumination_ album is bland,
uninspired, and disappointing.

>I am a bit disappointed in the covers, tho.  I remember the Warrior
>album jacket being much more intricate and colorful than the CD foldout
>is.  They reproduced the outer cover pretty well (including the 
>Rennaisance festival pictures on the back) but I remember the inner
>part being just as colorful, and in the CD foldout its just black on white.
>Sigh.
>
It was monochrome, but brown & blue ink on tan stock, and it had all
those REALLY cool symbols with all the creatures and instruments all
over that said who played what where and had those Celtic rune things.
The original packaging on both Warrior and Doppelganger easily ranks
them as two of, if not THE best ever done in Christian music. 
The CD itself looks cool, but yeah, it's a letdown. 

>Doppelganger is an even bigger disappointment, tho.  Not only is the
>story not contained in the liner notes (I expected that), the WORDS
>aren't even reproduced!  That's poor, really poor.  I'm glad I still
>have the original album so I can look the words up when I need to.
>
There were enough things about Doppelganger to keep me from being TOO
disappointed.  The bonus tracks were wonderful, and the use of the photo
under the tray that holds the disc in was REALLY cool.  (Did you notice
the scripture references and "Confront your double" on the inside of the
"spine" of the back insert?)  The repackaging is STILL nicer than that done
for "Daniel Amos," "Shotgun Angel" or "Alarma!" though.  "Little things
mean a lot..." 

>Looking at the CD cover last night, I noticed for the first time the
>way they typeset the word "Doppelganger".  They intentionally set the
>D and the A bigger and taller.  (*flash* the light comes on).
>
Yes, that discovery is a warm and magic moment in the life of every true
DA fan.  :-)

>		William LeFebvre
>		Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst
>		Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
>		Northwestern University
>		<phil@eecs.nwu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante)
Subject: TANGENT: Is sarcasm appropriate for Christians?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 22:42:35 GMT

 Yes, this is a serious question, and I hold no position either way. I'm
 curious what others think. I recently read someone's post about mr. 
 jason steiner being one who uses sarcasm in his discussions. I
 get the impression that the person who was commenting did not like
 the use of sarcasm.

 Well, I'm quite a talented user of it myself, when I want to. And
 some of my favorite albums of all time (early Steve Taylor: I want
 to be a clone, Meltdown) are just loaded with it. And yet sometimes I
 get hte feeling that it is not a good thing for a Christian to do --
 I'm not sure why; perhaps because I've been listening to a radio talk
 show host who seems to make his points by ridiculing his opponents. 
 
 My initial feeling is that sometimes sarcasm is appropriate, especially
 if directed towards ideas rather than people. But I'm at a loss to
 figure out when it IS appropriate.

 Comments please (straight answers, please).
From: gt6223b@prism.gatech.EDU (Jerry B. Ray)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: U2's denomination
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:54:58 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Sep3.154805.2999@meaddata.com> johnt@meaddata.com (John Townsend) writes:
>
>Wow, even Intervarsity's tri-annual conference at Urbana does better than that.
>Sounds like they've really had an impact on the area...

AHEM.  Is this to imply that if you're a Christian, then you won't go to
the U2 concert?

Answer carefully, my flamethrower is pointed :-)

JRjr

-- 
'Hear the tale of a fallen people, destined to wander their broken land.
Their eyes are vacant, full of empty meaning, and what they're missing they
just don't understand.  Beyond the dark horizon, out where the people are
crying, a Morningstar will be rising, rising to show us the way...' Whiteheart
From: rhm@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Miller)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:37:28 GMT
Subject: Re: Accountability in CCM
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian

In rec.music.christian, crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:

> This brings up a very interesting issue.  It's probably come up before in
> this group, but not since I've been reading it.  
> 
> Should Christian musicians be held accountable by their recording companies
> in addition to their churches?  What guidelines should said companies use,
> if so?  If a musician gets a divorce, for example, is that grounds for 
> canceling a recording contract?  What about an affair?  Driving under the
> influence?  Lying?  Gossiping?  In other words, which sins would be
> deemed acceptable, and which wouldn't?  

I think it is inappropriate for record companies to establish a "moral code"
that their artists are expected to live by, save perhaps a general call for
their lives to match their public "persona"--in other words, practice what you
preach -- "we don't believe in fake stage images that are inconsistent with how
you act 'around town' in Nashville"...

I guess what I had in mind as a call to accountability was an expectation by
artist agencies/companies that their artists placed themselves and their 
ministries under the care of the elders of a church of their choosing that they
regularly attended, and that these elders took seriously their pastoral role,
meeting regularly with the artist and perhaps periodically reporting to the 
artist's A&R rep or some such, to affirm their support for this artist in a 
public ministerial role.

This avoids a lot of dubious "regulations" such as "don't ever let me see you
with a beer in your hand or talking alone with someone else's spouse," etc ;-P

I do believe we as "friends of CCM" and co-believers in Jesus Christ have the
right to call all ministers of the gospel, ordained or otherwise, to set a 
Godly example in their lives, setting themselves apart from sinful behavior
which clearly is in violation of Biblical standards of Christian behavior, 
e.g. drunkenness, immorality, adultery, drug abuse...

But we need to be careful. If Word knew every detail about *my* private life
and past, would they cancel *my* album sales? 

Bob (got a few stubborn sins of my own) Miller rhm@hpfirhm.fc.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: rmbenn@david.wheaton.edu (Richard M. Bennema)
Subject: Re: Accountability in CCM
Organization: Wheaton College, IL
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 19:14:09 GMT

In article <87307@netnews.upenn.edu> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
>Should Christian musicians be held accountable by their recording companies
>in addition to their churches?  What guidelines should said companies use,
>if so?  If a musician gets a divorce, for example, is that grounds for 
>canceling a recording contract?  What about an affair?  Driving under the
>influence?  Lying?  Gossiping?  In other words, which sins would be
>deemed acceptable, and which wouldn't?  
>
None are acceptable.  I believe the ones that will require outside action
(pressure, interference) would be the ones that go unrepented.  And being cut
off might be required if that person does not repent following confrontation.
This can apply to everyone, not just celebs.  But in this case, if Patti is
confronted that divorse is wrong and goes through with it anyway, then perhaps
her label does need to step in and act.

					Richard M. Bennema
--
rmbenn@david.wheaton.edu
Richard M. Bennema		"The brain can be seen as a complex machine,
Computer Science/Math		 like a gooey computer."
Wheaton College 			-Robert C. Solomon
From: longo@sunny.dab.ge.com (Alexander Longo II)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: new artist
Date: 27 Aug 92 02:34:53 GMT
Reply-To: longo@sunny.dab.ge.com
Organization: GE Simulation & Control Systems

Keywords: 
Has anyone heard of a new artist named Robert Gay?
He has a unique style of music similar to Hosanna but
more for mainstream young adults.
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (Scott Aaron)
Subject: Re: TANGENT: Re: Is music amoral??
Reply-To: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:25:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.164521.2488@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, noel@crs.cl.msu.edu (Noel Estabrook) writes:
>Hmm. so tell what would a GOOD, non-evil use of a rack be?

As an exhibit in a museum.

>I think this is one of those times when perhaps one verse, when not balanced
>against the whole of Scripture, may be taken out of context.  Consider: if
>only what is unclean that which comes from his heart, then why can't a
>composed musical piece be evil?  

To the author of the song, it would be if that is what s/he intended.  For
example, if someone writes a song that s/he uses to praise Satan, then
it is evil for him.  But if I hear the same song and sing it to praise
Jesus, is it still an evil song?  As I said, it is not the author's intent
that matters, but MY use of the lyrics.  The only exception is, as I said
last time, when the words have authority.  I feel that IS balanced against
the whole of Scripture.

>Why we insist on treating THINGS as meaningless
>and sterile entities is beyond me.  

Because they are.

>If someone puts their heart into writing
>a song (be it for good or evil), then can not that THING that has come out
>of the heart be evil?  I think so.  If Satan were to right a song, could it
>possibly not be evil?  

Depends on the lyrics and how you, the listener, use them.

I just thought of an example from my experience.  Have you ever read a magazine
called "The American Atheist?"  From the title, you can guess the intent of
the publishers--to mock religion and, more importantly, the Christian faith.
Thus, the intent of the publishers is evil.  Yet, I try to read every issue
because it HELPS me in my faith; by being challenged, I gain understanding
which leads to a stronger faith.  They even make very good points now and then.
The point is that, even though the authors/publishers put out their magazine
to demean and insult Jesus, I grow in understanding by reading it.  So, is the
magazine evil even though it brings me closer to our Lord?  I don't see how.

>Again, I don't think so.  We have to start looking at
>some things (particularly art) as being a product of human heart, spirit and
>will - not just sum notes or penstrokes spread across a page.

We have to decide what these writings mean to us (with the standard exception,
of course).  If you don't like things or whatever, fine.  But that doesn't mean
those things are bad for me.

  -- Scott @Brandeis

                           I asked Jesus,
                     "How much do you love me?"
                     "This much," He answered;
                        and He stretched out
                         His arms and died.
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: beckman@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Mattox Beckman)
Subject: Re: TANGENT: Is sarcasm appropriate for Christians?
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 01:58:14 GMT

jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante) writes:

[ question about sarcasm.... is it appropriate for Christians? ]

	It depends on what you're using it for.  Sarcasm is like computers,
music, and just about everything else: it is a tool that can be used to do
something.  In the case of sarcasm, it is a literary device that helps to
bring out a point.

	Perhaps the best argument that sarcasm is okay, at least in some cases,
is in the book of Job.  When God answers Job out of the storm near the
end of the book, He uses sarcasm.  "Surely you know.... you have lived so
long!"  (Sorry, I don't have my Bible on me this instant! :-( )  Paul also 
uses it in his letters, I think it was in Galatians.

/* Begin short sermon */

	To ridicule a person or his/her ideas, however, is not an option for
a Christian--anything not done out of the spirit of love is wrong.  As it turns
out, sarcasm is very useful and effective as a tool for ridicule, and cynicism
is easily expressed thru the use of sarcasm.  So use it to be funny, or to show
the absurdity of a point, but always check to see if you are doing it in a
loving (loving=the other persons interests before your own) way first, and
everything should be okay.  Okay?

/* End short sermon */

	That will be $0.02, please. :-)

	May His grace be with you,
	- Mattox Beckman
	beckman@cs.uiuc.edu
-- 
:-)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: hill@spot.Colorado.EDU (Michael Hill)
Subject: Sam Phillips
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 05:22:27 GMT

I just bought Sam Phillips' "The Indescribable Wow" today, on the basis of
recommendations from quite a few people here.  Thanks to all of you!  I
really like it, even after just one listen.  Even Petra and Whiteheart
albums take me a few listens to get a feeling for the music, but this one
just "fit right in".  It sounds reminiscent of the Bangles, but better.
(The songs do all tend to sound similar, though.  Not a criticism, just
how it struck me.)

Unfortunately, the CD liner (as is the case in a regrettable number of
instances) came without lyrics.  Does anybody have them?  If so, could
you puh-leeeeze post them or mail them to me?  I would be ever so grateful.

aTdHvAaNnKcSe,

			--Michael

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Hill   <><  Isaiah 9:6 | "Don't you forget now that Somebody died for
hill@spot.Colorado.EDU         |  you/ I'm tellin' you the truth, man, I ain't
Ball Aerospace Systems Group & |  gonna lie to you/ Good guys, bad boys, we're
University of Colorado@Boulder |  all the same/ Saved by grace is the name of
$ mv net.flames /dev/null      |  the game."            --Allies, "Burden Down"
-------------------------My boss is a Jewish carpenter!------------------------
Did you ever notice that everybody in favor of abortion has already been born?!
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian