From: mhulsey@hestia.fcs.uga.edu (Martin Hulsey)
Subject: Re: Hitler (was "A rat is a pig is a.....")
Followup-To: talk.politics.animals
Organization: Dept. Foods & Nutrition, Univ. of GA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:40:08 GMT

In article <Bz2BtD.ByC@wpg.com>, russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence) wrote:
> 
> From article <mhulsey-101292134012@fatrat.fcs.uga.edu>, by mhulsey@hestia.fcs.uga.edu (Martin Hulsey):
> mh> As I said earlier, I cannot translate this 1933 tract myself to 
> mh> confirm its proclamation regarding animal "rights" in Nazi 
> mh> Germany.  
> 
> In other words, you lack the ability to examine the evidence.

My knowledge is finite.  I cannot read German.  Do you think that you are
being profound here?

> mh> However, I have a colleague from Germany who can.  I will contact 
> mh> her for assistance in confirming that this 1933 reference does 
> mh> indeed proclaim what my other references suggest.  I will post 
> mh> her assessment of this question, for better or worse, ASAP.  
> 
> We'll look forward to hearing from you, once again, after you have
> your facts in order.

My facts are in order, we have to put them in a form that you can
understand.
 
> mh> Perhaps then we can put an end to Russell's unjustified 
> mh> complaints about the veracity of my references, and he can then 
> mh> proceed with his inevitable evasions of this damaging revelation.  
> 
> Unjustified complaints???  This sounds strange, given the fact 
> that you've already admitted your inability to analyze the scanty 
> evidence at your disposal.

At least I have provided evidence that others, with a knowledge of German,
can verify.  After weeks, we are still waiting for your "evidence"
regarding the "cat-shooting" and "beagle-drowning" experiments.

> When you can round up some solid facts and rational arguments to 
> prove your case, please let us know.  For starters:
> 
> 1) You stated previously that Hitler endorsed the philosophy of
>    animal rights.  Can you point to some specific papers or speeches
>    that support such a claim?

I stated that the Nazi press proclaimed that animals have "rights," and,
given the fact that Hitler was dictator of Nazi Germany, that he approved
of the content of these press releases.  I have no idea whether Hitler
personally believed that animals have "rights," or whether it was simply a
propaganda maneuver to justify his persecution of the Jewish people.

I and others have provided references from the Nazi press.  Translations
will be forthcoming.

> 2) You stated previously that the Third Reich was the only "modern
>    civilization" [sic] to "officially embrace" a philosophy of
>    animal rights.  Would you mind defining the term "philosophy
>    of animal rights" in this context?   Can you point to any
>    specific pieces of legislation under the Third Reich that you
>    consider representative of the animal rights concept?  And
>    please explain how/why such legislation was unique to nazi
>    germany.

I am sure that any evidence that I could provide would not satisfy your
definition of animal "rights."  Your definition of animal "rights" is
inconsistent.  For example, you implied previously that Hitler could not
have supported animal "rights" because he received injections of bull
testicle extract.  However, you have previously argued that supporters of
animal "rights" have no obligation to refuse medical treatments developed
using animals.  Make up your mind.

The important question is whether the Nazis proclaimed their support for
animal "rights," not whether their definition of animal "rights" is
acceptable to you.  As you have reminded me numerous times, there is a
great diversity of opinion on such matters.

There is absolutely no need to demonstrate that legislation regarding
animal protection is unique to Nazi Germany.  In fact, you and I *know*
that such legislation is not unique to Nazi Germany.  What *is* unique is
their proclamation that animals have "rights."  No other civilization,
government, etc. has *officially* proclaimed this.

--
mhulsey@hestia.fcs.uga.edu                      Society for Neuroscience
Martin G. Hulsey                              National Rifle Association
Dept. Foods & Nutrition      Society for the Study of Ingestive Behavior
University of Ga.    North American Association for the Study of Obesity
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals