HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Kamchatka Charlie
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: A suggestion for rec.food.recipies
Date: 8 Apr 92 02:25:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: msuinfo.1992Apr8.022525.5891
Organization: Psychosis Unlimited International


     You say most meateaters aren't interested in "TRUE VEGETARIAN" recipies.  
I say "Why not try them (us) out?
     Why not post the recipies listed here in rec.food.recipies?  Think of
it--that newsgroup ends up becoming bigger and more useful; the meateaters who
want to reduce their meateating will be able to try out new recipies, and JUST
MAYBE you'll find this place more hopping because MORE PEOPLE WILL FIND IT
FITTING.

     And another idea:  try being more tolerant of other people's habits.  Not
everyone wants or is able to quit eating meat; a simple allowance for that fact
might just make this group more tolerable for the nonvegans and nonfruitarians
amongst you.

Kamchatka Charlie--kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu
Remember:  That could be you getting flamed.
From: bob@medrcw.b17a.ingr.COM (Robert Whitehead)
Subject: Juicing Vegetables - a request for help
Reply-To: bob@medrcw.b17a.ingr.com
Organization: The Alabama State Home for the Bewildered
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 18:31:09 GMT

Veggie Fans;

I have a 21-month-old daughter who is a self-determined vegetarian; she
won't even look twice at meat.

Since she is turned that way, I have decided to indulge her and not
force meat on her.  To make sure that she gets enough nutrition, I am
supplementing her diet with fresh vegetable and fruit juices.

I bought a juicer and a book on juicing (I think it's called "Juicing
for Life"), and I have a very few of Jay "Juiceman" Kordich's recipes, 
but I need a greater variety.

Would anyone have an archive of good vegetable and fruit juice recipes
that I might get?

Also, would anyone have a Vita-Mix juicer (in good condition) that they
might be willing to sell?

Replies by email, please; I seldom have access to this group.

Many thanks!
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Robert C. Whitehead       | You can be the Captain
| Intergraph Corporation    | And I will draw the Chart
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| Technical Documentation   | Closer to the Heart.....
| Mailpath: b17a!medrcw!bob | - Rush, "Closer To The Heart"
| Phone: (205) 730-1923     |
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From the Real World: bob@medrcw.b17a.ingr.COM


"Only fools have no fear."
    -- Worf, "Coming of Age", Stardate 41416.2
From: mma9872@csseq.cs.tamu.edu (Matthew M Agee)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: veganism down under
Date: 9 Apr 92 02:24:29 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
Originator: mma9872@csseq


 	...first off, i'd like to apologise for some gibberish recently posted
by me...the system i'm working from has been behaving very oddly recently, and
everything i've sent (email, news, etc.) has been transmitted hacked up and
missing most of its lines...
	...i would very much like to gather any information pertaining to the
feasability of veganism in tasmania as well as melbourne...i'd also greatly
appreciate anyone who might lead me to finding contacts in either of those 
areas (or really anywhere in australia)...i may be moving there very soon, and
trying to blindly stumble about maintaining a lifestyle as difficult as 
veganism can sometimes be really doesn't appeal to me...
	...anyone who may be able to help please email me...
					...matthew m. agee...
					mma9872@csseq.cs.tamu.edu
From: young@sasquatch.serum.kodak.com (Rich Young (x37176))
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegetarianism and war
Date: 8 Apr 92 12:11:33 GMT
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company

altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:

>young@sasquatch.serum.kodak.com (Rich Young (x37176)) writes:
>
>>[...]
>
>>I have no desire to get into another interminable discussion of why the 
>>morality of some is thought by the holders of that morality to be superior
>>to that of others, but a book review taken from t.p.a may be illuminating
>>regarding extremism in this area.  Also, I do understand that this is not
>>the Singer quoted in Mr. Miley's post.
>
>And I thought you were going to temper your flame baiting of us
>vegetarians.  Citing this so-called book review is not only irrelevant
>to this conference, but it is downright insulting to our intelligence.
>
>How come no reference?  Could it be that it was lifted from some
>disreputable rag?  Do you really think that an informed review is
>going to be made by a hostile animal researcher concerning a book
>on ethics written by a philospher and predicated on a philosophical
>position?  It is possible, I guess, but whoever wrote this review is not
>very informed.  Anyway, I'm not going to debate this review here, but
>on t.p.a.  If you really want to search out some book reviews from
>more credible publications, then start with the BOOK REVIEW INDEX
>found in your university library.  

	1. The original exchange dealt with extremism and the evangelical
		attitude of some of the more militant vegetarians.  This
		review addresses the extremism in a common vegetarian
		belief system; while it may be annoying, it is hardly
		irrelevant.

	2. Tim Miley has, in past posts, stated that he doesn't GET t.p.a.,
		so it's clear that he (among others) would not have seen the
		review.

	3. The original poster of the review clearly states that, in
		deference to copyright laws, he's left out the author's
		name, and I suspect (but do not know) that this is the
		reason the source of the review is omitted as well.  In
		any case take it up (as I'm sure you will) with the
		original poster.

	4. Whatever hostility may be present in the reviewer lends no more
		bias to the issue than the quasi-religious zeal of the
		reviewed author.  Note well that the reviewer DOES recommend
		reading of the book to understand the AR position...a hostile
		attitude indeed.

	5. It would be of some interest to hear your definition of "flame
		bait", since it SEEMS to be ANY post which disagrees with
		your position.  If the posting of an alternative opinion
		is "flame bait", then my point about the evangelical
		attitude of militant vegetarians has been vindicated.

	6. How do you know that the source of the review is NOT credible,
		since, by your own admission, it's not given?  And how does
		this justify the patently patronizing final sentence of
		your post?

-Rich (young@serum.kodak.com)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are MY opinions, don't blame them on my employer.

Don't get angry, get accurate information.
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: LEATHER
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:50:31 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

In article <92096.150354IO91549@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO91549@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes:
>I am curious as to whether vegetarians wear leather shoes, jackets,
>have leather upholstered car interiors, etc. I understand that people
>who are vegetarian for health reasons only would have no problem with
>this, but what about those who detest meat for animal's sake? I have
>seen some 'animal rights' vegetarians wear leather, saying "Someone
>else ate the meat, I'm just using what would go to waste".

     I try to avoid the use of leather as much as possible. I don't
buy leather shoes or belts (I do have one pair of leather hiking boots
that I purchased "by accident", thinking the leather was fake), I
don't have (don't want, and couldn't afford!) a car with a leather
interior, and my leather-looking jacket is actually plastic. My
wallet is canvas. 

     BTW, I'm thinking of starting a leather-alternatives FAQ list.
Does anyone else think this would be a good idea?

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@flubber.cs.umd.edu| "Born to die" | Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
          This is a .signature antibody. Vaccinate your .sig!
    "You should never bet against anything in science at odds of more than
     about 10-12 to 1." -- Ernest Rutherford
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: robert@kohlrabi.tcs.com (Robert Blumen)
Subject: Re: De-muffining
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems Inc.
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 23:31:59 GMT

In article <6APR199219133556@cc.weber.edu>, jtan@cc.weber.edu (THE TAN MAN) writes:
> 	I have just barely become a vegetarian (less
> than two weeks ago!).
> 	I have switched to eating a lot of rice now,
> but someone told me that I should eat meat or beans
> with it:  does anyone know why?

Some people believe that it is difficult to get adequate high-quality
protein in a vegetarian diet.  This was a big issue during the 70's (the
classic work advocating this viewpoint is Lappe's "Diet for a Small
Planet"), though opinion seems to be shifting away from this, toward:

1. human protein needs are low
2. anyone eating a variety of foods will have a very hard time not getting
enough protein
3. many degenerative diseases (such as osteoporosis) may be caused by TOO
MUCH protein in the diet
4. a relatively low-protein diet is the way to go

It seems that no single vegetable foods (except maybe quinoa or amaranth, I
can never remember which) has "complete proteins".  Animal foods do have
them.  Vegetable foods have partial proteins (amino acids) which must be
"combined" in just the right way to get complete proteins.  Grains and
beans happen to be one such combination.  I believe that grains + (nuts or
seeds) is another.   Notice that many traditional vegetarian foods from
throughout the world feature grain/bean combos:

burrito
falafel
asian foods containing rice + soybean
rice + lentils in India
native American corn + black eyed peas

Anne-Marie Colbin (my favorite food writer) in her book "Food and Healing"
talks about the "protein fetish", how protein was glorified and
carbohydrates denigrated as "starch".  You can see this in the Standard
American Diet, which consists of a big hunk of meat, and a smaller serving
of "starch", and in the USDA's Four Food Groups, two of which are meat and
dairy.  The result of this ideology has been a diet too high in protein,
and lacking sufficient complex carbos.  Note also that the big protein
foods are also big fat foods, which has resulted in the American diet
containing too high a percentage of calories from fat, which has been
linked to many degenerative diseases, such as heart disease and some
cancers.

Even if you are not paranoid about getting enough protein, many people find
the grain/bean combo (with some vegetables) to be the most balanced,
satisfying vegetarian meal.  Have grains and beans together in a burrito,
with veggies on the side; or grains and vegetables with a bean soup; or a
bean and vegetable soup with cooked grains; or a grain and vegetable salad
with cooked beans; etc...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Blumen                          | robert@tcs.com
Senior Software Engineer               | 2121 Allston Way, Berkeley, CA 94704
Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc. | (510) 649-3759
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: pets (was Re: LEATHER)
Expires: 
Reply-To: wender@top.cis.syr.edu (Elaine Wenderholm)
Followup-To: 
Distribution: world
Organization: CIS Dept., Syracuse University
Keywords: 

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: biesty@ide.com (Bill Biesty)
Subject: Re: Travel to Europe  (inc. restaurant/travel guide)
Organization: IDE, San Francisco
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 00:44:06 GMT

In article <121067@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>, mike@isg.llnl.gov (Michael E. Hummell) writes:
> The Vegetarian Society of the U.K.  (VSUK)  publishes the "International
> Vegetarian Travel Guide", which concentrates on Veg. Restaurants & guesthousts
> in England & Europe, listing establishments for each city in every country.

I'm thinking of going to Chezckoslavkia in several months. Does this guide
cover eatern Europe?

Does anyone have any experience eating in eastern europe? My feeling is
that meat is rare but that meat products find their way into a lot of
foods. True?

--
Bill Biesty
<biesty@ide.com>     These are not the opinions of my employer.
From: Kamchatka Charlie
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: A suggestion for rec.food.recipies
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:49:42 GMT
Organization: P.U.I.

Michael Traub writes:

>I  (and  I  am  sure  others)  consider  someone  who  *insists* on >posting
articles to rec.food.veg containing animal products as uncourteous.
(and further on, you say)
>My insufferable rudeness to Carol? This is what she had to say about me:
>
>In article <1992Apr10.165655.25438@acsu.buffalo.edu>
riacmt@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Carol Miller-Tutzauer) writes:
>>Traub -- spout off if you wish, but you know absolutely nothing
>>about the life span of eskimos, let alone WHY it would be shorter.
>>I don't suppose living in a hostile environment where nature rules
>>rather than humankind has anything to do with it?
>>
>>Traub -- get some work done, will ya?
>>
>>me (and I'm about ready to go on hiatus again; this newsgroup
>>    seems to have started its inevitable dissent into the pits
>>    of fanaticism and lack of reason)
>
>Apart  from  showing her total ignorance about Eskimos (if she knew so >much
about  Eskimos  she  would know that they don't like to be called >"Eskimos" it
 is  Innuit  slang),  she  posted  this off her own bat >without my being rude 
to  her  at all. So please don't tell me that I am >being insufferably rude.
>
>Also  with  respect  to  my  "monopolising"  this  newsgroup  I  have  >five
megabytes  of  back  articles  saved, would you like me to send them >to you so
 you  can  see how many of them are "boring" and discussion >free? I post a 
large  amount  of  factual  data to this group, >Vegan/Vegetarian society
information,   recipes,   nutrition   >information   and  information  about
restaurants  all  over  the  world.  >I also have posted *more* recipes than
anyone else in rec.food.veg in the >last two months.
>
>P.S.  On  a  further  note of intolerance, if you don't like what I say >you
have  the  choice. I get many supportive e-mail messages, I don't >intend to
stop posting to satisfy your "disgust".

A)  Okay, if you get SOOOOOOO...many supportive email messages, post them.  I'm
sure these "Supportive" people won't mind you showing them to you.  Who knows;
as I've said before if it was six or seven others speaking along with you; THEN
MAYBE I'LL BACK OFF.  Until then; I will continue fighting your intolerance
B)  Excuse us for being politically incorrect.  Just because we use the term
"Eskimo" instead of the "Proper" name for the group.  Get a grip.
C)  IF this Carol Miller-Tutzauer has sinned by putting actual flesh products
(NOT MILK, and please NOT EGGS) in her recipes, PLEASE POST THE EVIDENCE.  I'm
pretty sure that with your 5+ meg of past article storage of which you're so
proud of you would be able to post, in detail, every recipe which she has
offered to r.f.v which has FLESH (again, NOT MILK OR EGGS) in the recipe.  I'll
accept two or three examples.

Until you answer A and C to my satisfaction, don't expect me to pipe down.

Kamchatka Charlie
KAMCHAR@ibm.cl.msu.edu
From: larry@cs.umd.edu (Larry Herman)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Request: Vegan Cake Frosting
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:32:53 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

Hi All,

  Here's a simple request: does anyone have a recipe or suggestion
for a vegan cake frosting, or something that can be used to
successfully cover a cake with?  I haven't been a big cake baker,
usually preferring pies, but for some reason have baked several (vegan)
cakes for potlucks lately, and wanted to know what I could use to cover
the next one with.

  Oh, just one more simple request: could everyone please Please
PLEASE try to use just a little politeness when discussing issues on
this (indeed, any) newsgroup, no matter how addled and deserving of
immolation you feel your adversary is?  Count me among those who
naively persist in believing that we can discuss even controversial
issues, on topics of great personal importance to us, with people who
may disagree with us, civilly, politely, and constructively (even with
people who may have just insulted us or ridiculed our recent
posting!!!).  Maybe we won't persuade each other, and maybe we shouldn't
even try to (or indeed aren't)- but I think at least we can learn from
the discussion.

  Oh, and I'm talking to both "sides" of the recent frequent arguments
in the above.  I bet I'll get flamed from both for my impudent
suggestion, however.

  Waiting for your cake frosting,

  Larry
-- 
    /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
    |  Larry Herman      University of Maryland Computer Science Dept. | 
    |    (lack of witty phrase here is sorely felt) larry@cs.umd.edu   |
    \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
From: sk4i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Samuel John Kass)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Beef minus the cow
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:03:26 GMT
Organization: Freshman, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

How about those people who don't go vegetarian because they think cooked
vegetables are disgusting.  We just sprinkle some of this onto a veggie
meal, and viola, and entire plate if different textured beef.
hmmmm.
    --Sam
From: dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (David F. McWade)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: A suggestion for rec.food.recipes
Date: 17 Apr 92 01:29:28 GMT
Organization: Senior, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Kamchatka Charlie writes;

>     Environment has something to do with it.  I had meant that if you
can be a
>vegetarian/vegan in an environment as tough and unforgiving as the
arctic, THEN
>you have the right to be as intolerant and bullying as you wish.  Until then,
give> some slack.

I think Mike Traub was merely relaying facts, not cutting on the Eskimos.

Dave
From: traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: LEATHER
Date: 9 Apr 92 08:35:21 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <1992Apr8.165547.444@news.eng.convex.com> jjohnson@convex.com (Jennifer L. Johnson) writes:
>in article  <1992Apr7.155008.4846@rdr.com>, Randy Tidd writes:
>>
>>Does this imply that you have your pets spayed/neutered?  If the answer is  
>>no, read no further.  If the answer is yes, I'd like to hear the arguments  
>>for such action.  I've always felt that, er, modifying your pets was *not*  
>>supportive of animal rights, and is part of the attitude of "we know  
>>what's best for another species, so we're going to change them" which I  
>>don't subscribe to.
>
>Of course I have my companion animals spayed or neutered.  I consider this
>a requirement for responsible pet ownership.
>Only 1 cat or dog in 10 born in the USA finds a home.  Spaying/neutering
>minimizes the suffering of animals.  It also protects the animals against
>a number of diseases.  (I suggest you read rec.pets/rec.pets.cats.  This
>topic comes up often.)
>

Keeping pets at all is inconsistent with your stated objectives.

The  problem  is  that  you may have taken the animals in for compassionate
reasons,  and  this  cannot  be  faulted,  however I think that pet keeping
should  as  a rule not be part of a Vegan lifestyle. It only encourages the
breeding of more animals, and they are normally fed on other animals.

If  one  likens  meat  eating to cannibalism then one can liken pet keeping
to  slavery.  You may treat your slaves with love and respect, but they are
still slaves.

Please  note  that  I  am  not  recommending that you get rid of your pets,
just   that   I  don't  think  you  should  replace  them  when  they  die.
Spaying/neutering  can  be  considered  cruel, but since the animal is your
slave  anyway  you *should* take full responsibility for it and ensure that
it doesn't breed.


-- 
Michael Traub
BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk
From: riacmt@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Carol Miller-Tutzauer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: A suggestion for rec.food.recipies
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:56:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr10.100104.24643@rtf.bt.co.uk>, traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes...
> 
>>     I hope that in your next life you're born as an Eskimo in Siberia.  If
>>then you can keep your vegetarian lifestyle intact, THEN you can be intolerant
>>of everyone else.  ;+) ;+) ;+) ;+) ;+) ;+)
>>
>As a devout practising atheist I know there will be no next life to worry
>about, and eskimos have shorter than average lifespans due to their high
>meat intake so it wouldn't be much of a life anyway.

Traub -- spout off if you wish, but you know absolutely nothing
about the life span of eskimos, let alone WHY it would be shorter.
I don't suppose living in a hostile environment where nature rules
rather than humankind has anything to do with it?

Charlie -- you'd just better bail out of this one.  Traub listens
to no one, not even if they manage to make a reasonable point on
occasion.

Traub -- get some work done, will ya?

Later, 

me (and I'm about ready to go on hiatus again; this newsgroup
    seems to have started its inevitable dissent into the pits
    of fanaticism and lack of reason)
From: gt4646a@prism.gatech.EDU (Rob Beauchamp)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Beef minus the cow
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:51:20 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

From today's USA TODAY, Life section, page 1:

	 Next on the menu:
	 Beef minus the cow

  SAN FRANCISCO -- Tofu that tastes like T-bone steaks and veggie burgers
  with intense ground beef flavor could be staples on the future U.S.
  menu, a scientist predicted Tuesday.
    The natural substance that gives beef its meaty taste has been
  identified and even synthesized in the lab, says researcher Arthur
  Spanier, U.S. Department of Agriculture. [...]
    The substance, a chain of eight amino acids, is called BMP, for
  "beefy-meaty-peptide." Tasters find it "quite meaty, very savory,"
  Spanier says. Further tests will be done before seeking FDA safety
  approval, but no toxic effects are expected, he says. In dry form,
  shelf life is at least two years. Among potential uses: [...]
    > BMP can trick the taste buds so vegetarians or those who want
  to cut dietary fat still can get beef's satisfying flavor.
    [Other potential uses omitted.]
    Two U.S. retail food firms have expressed possible interest in
  commercial development, Spanier says.

Any comments? My own impression is that, if this DOES eventually get
to market, it'll have both good and bad repercussions for vegetarians.
Assuming that (A) the BMP on supermarket shelves will be synthesized 
(if not, it wouldn't be vegetarian), and that (B) it passes the FDA
safety tests without any problems, I can see the following benefits.
  1. It'll be that much easier to entice dedicated omnivores into 
     trying an occasional meatless meal. 
  2. People whose only objection to going vegetarian is that they like
     the TASTE of meat, will no longer have any excuses.  
  3. Vegetarian meat analogues containing BMP will sell better; 
     consumer support for these companies will enable them to grow,
     introducing economies of scale that will help bring down prices
     and improve distribution of these products.
As for disadvantages, the only real one I can think of is that use of 
BMP might make it harder for some vegetarians (the ones who still like
the taste of meat) to stay away from the real thing, in the same way
that a recovering alcoholic can get tripped up by anything reminiscent
of alcohol. To me, though, that scenario doesn't seem likely.
  So I'll go on record here as saying: This is gonna be a Good Thing for us.

 Comments? 

-- 
Rob Beauchamp                           \  It's better to be rich and healthy
Georgia Institute of Technology           \    than poor and sick.    
Disclaimer: Back off, man. I'm a scientist. \    -- Dave Barry's mother