HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hart0037@student.tc.umn.edu ()
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:25:21 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.194439.24356@jetsun.weitek.COM> nadja@jetsun.weitek.COM (Nadja Adolf) writes:

>In article <1992Nov19.013619.7131@news2.cis.umn.edu> hart0037@student.tc.umn.edu writes:

>>In article <1992Nov18.194913.28324@adobe.com> pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai)
>>writes: 
>>
>>>In article <1992Nov16.030038.24360@news2.cis.umn.edu>
>>hart0037@student.tc.umn.edu writes: 
>>
>>  As for the second issue, I still don't want to own a gun.  It's too
>>quick and too easy to kill with a gun.  I've fired one before, and even
>>though I was targeting popcans, I didn't feel good about it.  I don't want
>>that kind of instantaneous life-and-death power in my hands!  Once you've
>>pulled the trigger, there is no turning back, and I'd feel unsafe with
>>that kind of power in my house.
>
>Do you drive a car? I've heard folks make remarks similar to this after
>having accidents with one.
>
>
>-- 
>The Earth Pig Bourne....
>

   I drive a car about twice a week, but to me, there is a BIG difference
between the potential for death with a car and the potential for death
with a gun.  My reason for owning a car is to take me places I can't
walk/bus to.  I avoid driving in bad weather, and am as careful as
possible about my actions while driving so I can avoid harming someone. 
My reason for owning a gun would be to kill someone.  I see no benign
reason for me to own a gun--I don't even like to target-shoot. 

  My stepfather once fell asleep on the highway while driving.  The
accident shook me up and put me into heavy psychological shock for about a
day (fortunately nobody had any physical injuries).  Although the whole
thing was upsetting and I didn't trust his driving for a while, I never
felt he had intentionally tried to kill me.  On the other hand, if he had
even once held a gun to my head, you can bet I would hate him for life
(assuming that he changed his mind and didn't shoot).

   There is quite a difference between guns and cars, at least in my book.

         --Amy
From: wells@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Wells)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:35:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Scummy behavior of pagan males
Organization: Zanzor of the CLOUDS
Newsgroups: alt.pagan

In alt.pagan, kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins) writes:

> Some examples within and without the community.
> 
> A prominent pagan couple announced their divorce this year.  Reasons
> given, their relationship for the last few years had become physically
> abusive, arguments culminating with him beating up her. 

SO?

  Humanity often sucks in general when it comes to relationships.  I have 
met very few 'happy couples'.  The majority of relationships are based on 
one person supporting the other or feeling sorry for the other and wanting
to help.  This is what is called in 'pop psychology' as CO-DEPENDANCY.  While
a little of this will go on in a healthy relationship... in a growing number
of folks that I know, this is becomming a sick mode of operation.  

  The most overt form of co-dependancy is the person who marries an alchie
or druggie and puts up with years of hell and abuse because they can't let
go for fear of hurting the others feelings or because 'no one will ever love
me again'.   Other less overt forms are the mental and physical abusers.
 
  I lost a very close freind to the insanity of this sickness (3 years ago)
her ex went to her house in the mountains and killed her.  Just reciently 
(about 4 months ago) A person who I had met only breifly was sitting in a 
meeting when her ex of 1 year burst in and drug her out to the parking lot
and killed her.   These aren't inbread mutants that are doing these things,
they are so called normnal people that have been fed so much crap by our
white man's society that murder and abuse are tolerated. , (GOD forbid we 
should see somebody walking around naked,  but it is OK to show Rambo 
blowing away commies on the Sunday evening moovie).

  This can be (and is) a very mentally sick world.  If you feel that Pagan 
men are scum... there is no argument from me... but just be sure to include 
everyone else in your melding pot.... It isn't just the men either.... 

*SOAP BOX MODE Off..... 

Sorry to be grumpy but Nov 18th is a bitch day for me and I got caught up in
the story!

Only we have the power to change the world.... it will take a long time and
the wheel turns ever so slowly
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Just an observation
Date: 18 Nov 92 23:52:32 GMT
Organization: n.o.y.b

o.k. I was not going to make a comment, being male, but I will. 

The original poster says she's "not a feminist". This summer, I heard a
piece on NPR where a woman being interviewed (it may have been on Nat'l
Woman's Day) said she believed in equal pay, and equal respect, etc, but
*she* wasn't a feminist". When asked what she thought of as "feminist",
she replied, "That's those bra-burners, aren't they?".

I could have *SWORN* feminism was all of what the woman said she believed in.
"Bra-burning" was nothing more than a symbolic act, and had *NOTHING* to
do with the actual beliefs. *SHEEEESH* Talk about accepting brainwashing....!

	mark, who, using the above beliefs, might be considered feminist.

P.S. when I was still looking for someone, I was looking for a *peer*. *I* 
didn't want no *wimps*.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Subject: Re: Pagan Bumper Stickers
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:06:57 GMT

radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes...
> I've seen "blessed Be" and "An it Harm None" bumperstickers at Sci-Fi cons...

lib1p@jane.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
> I have found that there is a higher proportion of pagans among
> SF people that in the populous in general.  I believe it is
> because SF people have the ability (as someone once put it) to
> "consider alternate possibilities".  This is necessary to break
> from the religion of your parents and take a different path.
> 
> "Consider alternate possibilities" Think about it a little.
> Also think about how the average person is unable to do so.

Yes, I've noticed this myself.  I think that it is based on the
following:

There are a bunch of things that require people to go against
the norms of society.  These things include homosexuality,
paganism, (in the US) belonging to small political parties, and
so on.  If a person is willing to go against societal norms in
one way, then that person is more likely to be willing to go
against societal norms in one of the other ways.  That would
explain why it seems that the percentage of pagans who are
homosexual is greater than the percentage of people in general
who are homosexual.

But, as you point out, Tammy, this doesn't stop with actually
*being* one of those people.  It goes on to include people who
are *open* to the ideas, but don't subscribe to them
personally.

I suppose that was the original intent of my posting.  There are
a bunch of people out there who are open to ideas such as
paganism, but who wouldn't call themselves pagans.  A lot of
these people would go to SF conventions.  Some of these people
who would be open to paganism but aren't pagans might actually
buy pagan-positive bumper stickers.

I've seen a lot of people who have said that bumper sticker sales
are an adequate indicator of how many pagans there are.  I don't
think so, but instead I think that bumper sticker sales are an
adequate indicator of how many pagan-POSITIVE people there are,
or perhaps of people who have ideals similar to the usual pagan
ideals.

Is this line of reasoning so flawed?  Or did I perhaps not make
myself clear earlier, when I didn't specify what I *do* think
the correlation is between.

Bumpersticker Blessings!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
Tribal Mother was old, and lay ill on a bed of moss and
fern.   Her hair was long and grey.   Her face was very
wrinkled.    Tamura'nun-pa thought:   How beautiful you
are, Mother, so old and wise.
From: jacksl@pogo.wv.tek.com (Jack Slingerland)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Christmas-like Stories
Keywords: Christmas
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:22:03 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.


I am looking for pointers to stories from non-Christian traditions
in which divine beings have miraculous or mysterious origins similar
to those recounted in the Christmas story.  For example, a virgin
birth, or stellar "signs" which bring bearers of gifts to celebrate
the birth.

My understanding is that the tale of Krishna's birth is one such
story.  I would like pointers to others.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

	--- Jack Slingerland
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 03:08:25 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.000049.19227@radian.uucp> markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
>Sorry, but *I* would suspect that if other people were carrying, you'd have
>wound up with *many* more victims, from the gunfight. If, on the other hand,
>a number of the people had said, "he's gonna kill me, I might as well die 
>stopping him", instead of just one person, he could have been stopped a lot 
>sooner.

Really?  Some did just that.  They died.  He wasn't stopped by their
actions at all.

>We don't need more guns, we need people willing to *do* something. I could
>have sworn people *admired* Wyatt Earp when he instituted the "Dodge City
>Rule". I thought they were under the impression it meant civilization had
>come.

You watch too many westerns.  The Earps were thugs and instituted the
rule to assist in their thuggery.  The mundanes didn't much care as
long as the earps preyed on drunk migrant cowboys; the rule didn't
apply to the mundances.

Read McGrath's "Gunfighters, Highwaymen, and Vigilantes".

-andy
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
From: cn573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ray Henry)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: greetings
Date: 16 Nov 1992 17:06:32 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Welcome to the high-tech circle of the Ways. May your travels
be easy with friends in abundance.

Blessed be.

-- 
================================================================
"The Earth, the Air, the Fire, the Water  |  Antryg Windrose
 <RETURN><RETURN><RETURN><RETURN>..."     |  aka Ray Henry
                     - Libana (almost)    |  cn573
From: liam%alehaus.uucp@brewich.hou.tx.us (liam)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Description of the Fetal Remains from an Abortion
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 20:54:34 CST
Organization: The Alehaus, a Brewer's Witch affiliate, alehaus@brewich.hou.tx.us

nlp@pacvax.pacersoft.com (Nancy Pilsch) writes:

> In article <1992Nov19.001423.21994@ncsu.edu>, dsh@eceyv.ncsu.edu ( ) wrote:
> 
> 
> What is the purpose of posting this?

possibly this 'person' posted it as an attempt to disgust the rest of us 
in order to further thier own aims and possibly win those of us who are 
pro choice over to their side...a very feeble and crude attempt at best.

OR  maybe it was done merely to make us mad... not to mention nauseus.

OR  maybe this poor soul is crying out for help as they are too ashamed 
    of their obvious facination with the morbid and disgusting to be able
    to put their name to their post....yet to caught up in it not to let 
    the opertunity pass to exhibit their own illness.

IN ANY CASE

        Whoever posted this is (IHMO) A) in need of SERIOUS counseling 
and B) beneath any further notice from the rest of us. in short, let's 
not give this being any more of our valuble time and space.
                                                
                                                Blessed Be
                                                        Liam(the 
disgusted)

------------------
liam%alehaus@brewich.hou.tx.us
Origin: The Alehaus -- Houston, TX -- 
     If you don't vote....DON'T BITCH
                                -unknown
From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Date: 15 Nov 92 23:57:24 GMT
Organization: Kaos Laboratories


In article <1992Nov15.120845.14707@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>, billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes...
>ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) writes:

>: 	I just got a handgun. It doesn't feel good. It feels creepy. And it 
>: made me think of all the people I have known who owned guns like the one I 
>: have. Guns that where designed for no other purpose than to kill people.
> 
>So what? So were knives and rockets. Airplanes were developed so fast because
>it was realized that they would be a useful military weapon.
> 
>It does not matter what they were designed for - what matters is how YOU
>intend to use the firearm. If you intend to use it to shoot someone, then
>it should feel creepy. If you intent to use it for target shooting or
>plinking, then why should you be bothered?

	I own a handgun as a defensive weapon. So far I have successfully 
defended my home and posessions with knives and a baseball bat, but I know that 
these weapons are almost useless against someone with a firearm. The reason 
guns where invented does not matter to me. This one feels creepy because it 
specificly was designed to kill human beings. Knives can be used for many 
things. So can rockets. A small, concealable handgun is used to shoot people. 
You can't carve a piece of wood with it, you can't send a satellite into orbit 
with it. You can shoot someone though. And I don't want to do that, but in the 
world we live in, I may have to someday. That's why I own it. And yes, I am 
getting training on how to use it. Thanks for the advice.

> 
>Bill
From: pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai)
Subject: Re: Guns & self defense
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 10:03:32 GMT

In article <1243@abb-sc.abb-sc.COM> ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) writes:
>	Oh please. Be a reasonable person and not a self-rightous jerk, won't 
>you? You might make some friends that way. Honestly, you should find something 
>better to do with your time than insulting me. Life's more fun when you are
>not 
>picking fights and making enemies.

There's a saying about pots and kettles you ought to think about.

-- 
Will Intel be the only X86 chip maker without a 586?
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ag055@yfn.ysu.edu (Ward Chanley)
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 03:08:39 GMT


Re: Matriarchy didn't work...

The only mistake the Matriarchy made 
was in assuming that their sons would
never take up arms against their
mothers.  When violent overthrow 
happened, the life-affirmative, art
creating cultures of the Goddess were
unprepared to deal with such violence.
War was never their thing; art, music
and worship were.


Blessed Be,
Ward
-- 
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: "deron douglas" <deron.douglas@canrem.com>
Subject: thurisaz
Reply-To: "deron douglas" <deron.douglas@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: alt
Date: 23 Nov 92 00:51:14 EST

TO:FALCORE@GATECOM.UUCP


Hi Carolyn:

Its seems your advice is being supported (not joining a coven right now),
I just drew a rune to see how things are going I got "THURISAZ" reversed.

Its **very** interesting lately because the Runes as well any Tarot Card
readings I do point to the samething.

For instance I drew the Hermit and Judgement 95% of the time for the last
two or three weeks now.... especially the Hermit.  I've also drew the Sun
and Star a significant number of times.... this is a great change from
a few years back (looked pretty bad....9 and 10 of swords and the Tower),
I was unemployed for two years....(went back to school and became a computer
programmer, seems to be alot of pagans in this area hmmmmm <grin>)....

Just thought you'd like o know....Merry Meet.

 Blessings to you in all ways......

 Deron
---
  DeLuxe 1.26b #815  ....."Shut up and be smurphy"......
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman)
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:43:42 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalno.fnal.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Nov19.150243.26769@news.ysu.edu>, ag055@yfn.ysu.edu (Ward 
Chanley) writes:
> Daniel has repeatedly made the point that women are equally capable of the
> "power-over" abuses of which I accuse patriarchy; this isn't surprising,
> since these women are operating within a patriarchal structure of empowerment
> and thus feel the need to play by its rules.  If we eliminate the patriarchy,
> we're not setting up a new "power-over" structure, we're CHANGING those rules
> alltogether.

If there is no power-over in place, why enshrine power-over in the name of the
system?  "Archy" means "rule", as in coercion.

If it is a set of values, not a gender, being valued over the other, why 
enshrine either gender in the name of the system and not derscribe the values?

How about calling it Omnifocal?
-- 
Daniel B. Holzman                    | Eight Words the Witch's Rede Fufill:
HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET                  | An It Harm None, Do What You Will
HOLZMAN@FNALC.FNAL.GOV.INTERNET      |
                                     | All Acts of Love and Pleasure are
Love doesn't subtract,               | Her Rituals
   it multiplies    - Heinlein       |
                                     | Speak the Word.
Disclaimer:  Fermilab's far too large to have an opinion, let alone mine.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: Description of the Fetal Remains from an Abortion
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:00:09 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: n.o.y.b

<description left out>

I see. You believe that someone who feels unready to have a child, either
because they cannot care for them properly, through lack of funds, say,
or because they are unmarried, and their parents, or people like ***YOU***
will find them "sluts", and tell their children not to play with them,
or else they do not feel emotionally in a place to care for children,
you want them to have them anyway.

***ARE YOU PREPARED, RIGHT NOW, TO WRITE OUT A CHECK, OR SIGN A CONTRACT 
TO SUPPORT THE MOTHER WHILE PREGNANT, AND TO SUPPORT THE CHILD UNTIL THEY
ARE 18 (this from someone who pays 1/3 of their take-home for child support)?
I ***doubt*** it, since you don't even sign your name.

More likely, you enjoy going to movies where you watch lots &lots of gore.
You clearly enjoy it, from the extended description. BUT, OF COURSE, you
believe violence is ok (WHEN HAVE ***YOU*** ->EVER<- complained to ANYONE
about, say, RAMBO?

YOU are thoughtless, cruel, and cowardly. GO AWAY, funnymentalist.

	mark
From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Guns & self defense
Date: 19 Nov 92 20:01:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Kaos Laboratories.


(article deleted)

>Let's start a conversation about how to cure the ills of society. Once we've
>cured the psychoses and neuroses that make the rapists and murders, once
>we've abolished the causes of violent crimes, then the rest will take care 
>of itself. But this continuous bantering about whether a gun is an assault
>rifle or a hunting rifle and the advantages of one type over another is
>senseless and futile. Don't ban the guns, ban the uses to which they are put.
>Greater social consciousness is what's needed, and you can't regulate that
>with a bunch of laws.
> 
>>I will pray for you to my chosen diety(ies).
> 
>Pray for all of us, and include yourself in the list. You're as needy of
>it as the rest of us.
> 
>Bb,
>Corun

	Thank you Corun, I couln't have put it better myself! And yes, let's 
drop the gun shop talk and get on with how to prevent the need for them in the 
first place! Here's some questions that I hope spark ideas.

	Who robs us? Why do they need our money? How can we prevent them from 
needing to take it from us by force?

	Who rapes us? Why? How can we remove their need to rape?

	Who murders us? Why do they feel they must do so? How can we make sure 
that they no longer feel this way?


	Working towards a positive solution is always better than participating 
in a battle. Sometimes we must fight. I know this. I have been amazed at the 
multitude of ways that the fight can be avoided or won without violence (see 
previous post on self-defence), but I agree that sometimes we must. Yet there 
must also be a way to address the reason why the conflict is there to begin 
with. Protecting ourselves is up to us. Which is better, a nation of armed 
paranoid people waiting for something to start, or a nation trying to find a 
way to prevent the need/desire to commit crimes? I know where I'd rather live.


			- Ashley

	Allright Mars, we've had enough.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Subject: Re: Just an observation
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:33:44 GMT

falcore@gatecom.UUCP (Carolyn C. Doss L.V.T.) writes:
>         So am I on the wrong track here?

No, it seems to me like you're doing what makes you happy, and not
hurting anyone else by doing it.  Sounds like exactly the *right*
track, to me.

>         Am I aggrivating you with these posts?

Not at all.  The more the merrier!

>         I am learning the Craft and practicing Solitary.

Me too.

>         I also notice that Wicca/Goddess worship  tends to be associated 
> with Feminism .....I do not claim myself a true feminist I am a peopleist an 
> Earthist and a naturist .....

I also consider myself a peopleist and all that.  But that doesn't mean that
I can't be a feminist, and I *do* consider myself one.  Feminism has often
been confused with female supremacy.  I think feminism is wonderful, but
female supremacy is simply a different evil from what we currently have --
just as bad and just as one-sided.

> These are what I see so far ...just want to see if it makes sense to others 
>         Being Pagan sure can be lonely at times!

Sure does make sense!  Yes, it can be lonely, but there are rewards as
well!

Bear Blessings!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
Tribal Mother was old, and lay ill on a bed of moss and
fern.   Her hair was long and grey.   Her face was very
wrinkled.    Tamura'nun-pa thought:   How beautiful you
are, Mother, so old and wise.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan