HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon and general grouch)
Newsgroups: news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
Subject: Re: NetNews/CD - USENET News Available
Keywords: copyright
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:54:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23255
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and general grouch)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <1992Jul20.183857.15008@jlc.mv.com> john@jlc.mv.com (John Leslie) writes:

>   Myself, I refuse to quote any part of a message that claims a
>copyright limiting its transmission, because my knowledge of the poster's
>intent is imperfect.  Until several courts have ruled on it, my advice is
>to quote *nothing*.  Yes, my attitude can be called paranoid.  No, I'm
>not willing to bet my home on some non-lawyer's advice.
Why?  You should look into "fair use".  You may note that reviews and
editorials often carry quotes of other's copyrighted materials without
stating permission.  This quoting has been tried in court and
defended as "fair use" before.  Now, I'm not a lawyer, but that's
my understanding of such situations, and that's what I intend when
I put a copyright notice on my articles.

>   Including such copyright notices in postings seems to be intended to
>inhibit people from making CDs of Usenet postings.  Perhaps it will work.
Does it?  Perhaps some of us weren't very impressed when we found 
some of (my, at least) articles in a magazine or two, well past
the "fair use" stage.  Some of us are also opposed to active editing
(except on moderated newsgroups) on usenet.  Don't presume to
guess what people want, why not just take them at face value?

>Certainly it is contrary to what I used to think was the spirit of Usenet.
>If I could think of a way to make my kill file reject articles that
>contain such a restrictive copyright, I would.
You could put /jj/h:k in your killfile.
-- 
 Bush    *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   vs       *by USENET and like free facilities granted. Said permission is
 Clinton  --    *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 Just Say !NO!       *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
Newsgroups: news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
From: duggan@cc.gatech.edu (Rick Duggan)
Subject: Re: What is "pay-per-read"?
Organization: College of Computing
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 00:08:43 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.175339.11094@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> gsh7w@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Hennessy) writes:
>In article <23307@alice.att.com> jj@alice.UUCP (jj, old curmudgeon and
>general grump) writes: 
>#Sorry, they don't break just because I don't bother to recover
>#virtually non-existant (in this case) damages from some petty criminal.
>
>If  you don't protect your rights from infringement you lose them.

Ahh, but every time he posts, he gets a new, completely independent
copyright.  If I choose not to pursue copyright infringement
on a one-page short story (because the local computer lawyer charges
$225/hour) I can still pursue an infringement case if someone
steals my novel and makes $1 million profit from selling
illegal copies.  

-rick

"Random acts of violence just don't do it for me anymore.  It must be
 maturity." - Cactus Jack WCW Saturday Night 07/04/92
Rick Duggan | duggan@cc.gatech.edu | CS1410 TA - Section A
Office Hours (CC 103): Tue 1:30-3:00 Thu 1:30-2:30
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: sridhar@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Sridhar Venkataraman)
Subject: Distribution: ba...
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 04:22:49 GMT

Who is at fault here for the leakage of "ba" articles?
Is Distribution: ca (California) a solution for this?

------
+	nigel.msen.com!hela.iti.org!widener!eff!iWarp.intel.com|inews!
+	mipos2.intel.com!pkundu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Distribution: ba
Organization: Microprocessor Component Group, Intel Corp., Santa Clara, CA
------

Sridhar.
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: darcy@druid.uucp (D'Arcy J.M. Cain)
Subject: Re: Changing follow up
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 14:08:05 GMT
Organization: D'Arcy Cain Consulting

booter@Autodesk.COM (Elaine Richards) writes:
>In article <1992Jul19.214516.10753@druid.uucp> darcy@druid.uucp (D'Arcy J.M. Cain) writes:
>>BTW changing followup without mentioning it is rude, even more so when you
>>followup to a non-exsistent group.
>I disagree. Being mindful of where the followup is going is a nice idea
>that spares bandwidth. Not too long ago, I forgot to check the followup
> [...]
>I think its the duty of the reader to check the headers of a posting
>to get the full flavor of what is going on. The header is warning enough.

I agree 100% and obviously I caught the change but that wasn't what I was
saying.  Changing the followup without mentioning it is rude.  It isn't a
matter of rules, guidelines, RFCs or anything like that.  It is simply a
matter of common courtesy to other readers.

Do I really have to add IMO?

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain (darcy@druid.com)  |
D'Arcy Cain Consulting              |   There's no government
Toronto, Ontario, Canada            |   like no government!
+1 416 424 2871          DoD#0082   |
Xref: sparky news.admin:6323 comp.org.eff.talk:4958 misc.legal.computing:1574
From: kadie@eff.org (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: "Computers graphic when it comes to porn"
Originator: kadie@eff.org
Organization: The Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:28:36 GMT

[Follow up to a newspaper article reposted to
alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk, news.admin, et al. - Carl]

The Toronto _Globe and Mail_ article says:

>"I said it was not an issue of censorship," said Lionel Tolan, Simon 
>Fraser's director of academic computer services.
[...]

>Mr. Tolan said the decision to stop access to the sex groups of Internet 
>"seemed timely" because of the growing protests of women's groups, the 
>fact that public funds supported the university's computer operations, 
>and because the university made Internet available to schools in British 
>Columbia.

>"It's the same as if somebody wants Playboy or Penthouse.  We don't 
>have them in the university library.  If somebody wants them they can go 
>to a bookstore and buy them.  Anybody wants access to the sex groups 
>on the Internet, they can buy access through a local company."
[...]

Many (most?) academic libraries *do* subscribe to _Playboy_. Can
some check if S.F. gets _Playboy_?

- Carl

-- 
Carl Kadie -- I do not represent EFF; this is just me.
 =kadie@eff.org, kadie@cs.uiuc.edu =
From: mwm@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us (Mike Meyer)
Subject: Re: OK to cancel? (was Re: Talking about Beals)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: Amiga Yarn 2.0, 1992/06/25 01:41:36
Keywords: 
Summary: 
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:47:49 PST
Organization: Missionaria Phonibalonica

Ok, Chip - you win. If I've accepted an article from my feed, then
anything it does on my system is authorized. That includes cancels. So
canceling an article *isn't* an unathorized use, and not illegal.

	<mike
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: doug@cc.ysu.edu (Doug Sewell)
Subject: Re: Changing follow up ( was Re: Can We Get Off This ^#$! Subject?
Organization: Youngstown State University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:29:02 GMT

chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
: According to sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart):
: >In article <2A6FF4A4.78C2@tct.com> chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
: >>Inconvenience, sure.  Terror?  Riiiight....
: >
: >Some people can be very scared about losing their jobs.
: 
: As Peter da Silva observed, you can get more E-Mail by being stupid
: than you'll ever see from misc.test automatic replies.

Hear hear!

I run an auto-replier for misc.test (and a few other *.test) groups.
And I periodically post a global message to misc.test to make sure
that there aren't an unreasonable number of other responses, and that
they're geographically diverse enough that mine is still meaningful.

I don't recall ever getting more than a dozen replies... and at worst
they run about twice the size as the original post, because they incor-
porate a copy of the original post in them.
: 
: It is unrealistic to believe that misc.test E-Mail could cause someone
: to lose his job -- unless, of course, his employer had already decided
: to fire him and was just looking for an excuse.

And 'Followup-To: misc.test' is a long-time net.prank.  For example, it's
also included in the Newsgroups: line in the debate over alt.wanted.moslem.
gay (we can thank Carasso for that one).

The moral: check what groups your post is headed to before you post it.
You're responsible for what you post.  Or you could Steven Brack what 
happens if you don't pay attention to the Newsgroups: line....
--
Doug Sewell, Tech Support, Computer Center, Youngstown State University
doug@cc.ysu.edu	   doug@ysub.bitnet	<internet>!cc.ysu.edu!doug
"Recession: your friend loses his job.  Depression: you lose your job.
Recovery: Bush loses his job" - Bill Davidsen
From: beezer@cc.utah.edu (BEEZER)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: [PROBLEM]:  fake 'alt' groups - how to stop them ?
Date: 21 Jul 92 05:53:00 GMT
Organization: Salt Lick, UT
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

_____________________________________________________________________

Someone on the net is creating 2 to 5 fake 'alt' groups a DAY.

Before I bring this to our sysop's attention, could someone explain
how I can undercover who is propigating these fake groups?
_____________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: mjo@ef2007.efhd.ford.com (Mike O'Connor)
Subject: Re: a notes site is at it again
X-Disclaimer: Not an official spokesperson for Ford OPEO
Reply-To: Mike O'Connor <mjo@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com>
Organization: International Affairs, Overseas Engineering, "Fordz"
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:30:49 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.081518.23288@chinacat.unicom.com>
chip@chinacat.unicom.com (Chip Rosenthal) writes:

:I think the Nobel prize for computing should be awarded to the person
:who designs a virus which attacks and debilitates any site running
:notes software.

Cool...  this would bring HP to its knees!  

How many notes sites are there?




-- 
 Michael J. O'Connor           |  Internet:  mjo@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com
 Ford Motor Company, OPEO      |  UUCP:      ...!{backbone}!fmsrl7!mjo
 20000 Rotunda, Bldg. 1-3001   |  Phone:     +1 (313) 248-1260
 Dearborn, MI  48121           |  Fax:       +1 (313) 323-6277
Xref: sparky news.admin:6048 news.sysadmin:1144 news.answers:2220 news.lists:330
From: gsh7w@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Hennessy)
Newsgroups: news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
Subject: Re: Copyright Summary (was: NetNews/CD - USENET News Available)
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:43:18 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

Brad Templeton writes:
#There are those who seem to be arguing a case because they want to limit
#what will appear on the net.  They want a net only of public domain or
#"effectively public domain" material.   They seem to argue, though I have
#seen no justification for it, that a net so limited would be better than
#one without such limitations.

Of course Brad knows very well that a net "limited" to public domain
material means that I personally NOT limited with what I do with such
material, where as Brads "unlimited" net means that there are severe
limits on what I can do with posting that appear in my spool
directory. 

Just cause Brad asserts that one method is limited does not mean that
the other method is without limits.

--
-Greg Hennessy, University of Virginia
 USPS Mail:     Astronomy Department, Charlottesville, VA 22903-2475 USA
 Internet:      gsh7w@virginia.edu  
 UUCP:		...!uunet!virginia!gsh7w
Xref: sparky news.admin:6417 comp.org.eff.talk:5053 misc.legal.computing:1658
From: swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Newsgroups: news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
Subject: Re: Net Culture assumptions! (very long!)
Date: 30 Jul 92 23:18:43 GMT
Reply-To: swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Followup-To: alt.culture.usenet,news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <1992Jul30.122050.3217@actrix.gen.nz> Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:
|
|I have often wondered if someone spray paints an "original" slogan or phrase
|or even a short story on a wall.......is it copyrighted?

Technically - *yes*!

Copyright law makes *no* distinctions about media at this level.
(Thought the exact set of rights applicable may depend on the medium).

Now, in this case I have a hard time seeing how there could be any copying
that was not covered by fair use, since the blankety-blank message is
so short, and the medium itself is non-transportable.  So I doubt that
any damages could be recovered.

|I see USEnet as a wall and we are all spray-painting for the benefit of
|passersby. We all know our postings are echoed around the world in minutes. We
|post knowing that. People copy our posts and repeat them in an almost endless
|echoing process.....

Not quite - the messages are *much* longer, and the medium has very
different characteristics.



I am beginning to understand why some people do not like the use of analogy
here.  There is nothing sufficiently like usenet to really apply directly.
-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: art@wvus.org (Art Nicolaysen)
Subject: Re: history problem ?
Reply-To: art@wvus.org (Art Nicolaysen)
Organization: World Vision U.S.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 04:05:52 GMT
Summary:  Articles getting thrown into junk; overflow; how to fix?

In article <Bs3r0n.JGG@news.cso.uiuc.edu> pcwood@romulus (Paul Wood) writes:

>Each night at about 2:30am on my system I get a /: file system full message.
>
>[...cron entry, df output deleted...]
>
>Also, a large number of files are getting junked because I dont have the
>group in my directory hierarchy.  Could it be that the groups have gone away
>but some diehard users are still sending messages to them ?  Or must I 
>somehow add them to my news setup (if so, whats the best way?).

Files getting thrown into newsgroup: junk could be caused by a number
of things.  As you say, people post to groups that you don't carry at
your site, or somebody out there rmgroups a group they don't like,
or... 

If you want to keep a lot of articles out of junk, you have to make
sure your active file is up to date. To do this, you can:

1: ask your feed site for a copy of their active newsgroups file, 
and proceed from there (RTFM for the details)

2: get Spaf's checkgroups script, and use it to see where your active 
file neeeed to be fixed (I think this is periodically posted in
news.admin) 

3: grep through junk, looking for those groups with the greatest number
of messages.  Re-add these to your active file.

4: as a result of 3: above, ask your feed site to stop sending you
those high-volume groups that end up in junk anyways.

5: do nothing except to tighten down on expiring articles out of junk.
At one time, when we were really tight on space, junk was getting
expired 4 times a day (along with comp.mail.maps and news.lists).


Hope this helps, 

Art

p.s. am posting cuz my mailer chokes on your From: line...
  would be nice to have it fixed; at least put a valid 
  address in the Reply-To header.

-----------------------------------------+----------------------------------
  "Always do right.  You will gratify    | Art Nicolaysen    art@wvus.org
   some people, and astonish the rest" 	 |
  		     Mark Twain		 | (somewhere in los angeles county)
-----------------------------------------+----------------------------------


-- 
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: news@geovision.gvc.com (News Administrator)
Subject: Re: [PROBLEM]: fake 'alt' groups - how to stop them ?
Organization: Not officially GeoVision Systems Inc., Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:39:54 GMT

In <20JUL199222530893@cc.utah.edu> beezer@cc.utah.edu (BEEZER) writes:

>Someone on the net is creating 2 to 5 fake 'alt' groups a DAY.

Fake 'alt' groups is an oxymoron - all the groups in alt are fake.

-- 
Paul Tomblin, News Administrator Extraordinaire.  (pt@geovision.gvc.com)
You all know that this stuff is my opinion, don't you?  Nothing to do with
GeoVision at all.  Honest!
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Beals - Third Strike
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 12:13:45 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to mwm@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us (Mike Meyer):
>All I've done is pointed out that what he intended to do was less
>obnoxious than what the habits he was trying to deal with...

Not "pointed out", but "opined".  Relative obnoxiousness isn't an
objectively measurable quantity.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
   "Do Rush place weird subliminal backmasked messages in their songs to
 compel unwilling geeks to commit evil .sig atrocities?"  -- Dean Engelhardt
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: corby@zaphod.ssf-sys.DHL.COM (Corby Anderson)
Subject: What generates the "From:" header?
Organization: DHL Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:53:47 GMT

The "From:" headers in articles generated by my site appear to be
messed up.  Try as I might, I can't seem to locate the place where
they are gererated.  I looked in the Pnews script, and in Pnews.header,
but to no avail.  I tried adding a "From:" header to the "NEWSHEADER"
environment variable, but this didn't work either.

I would like the return address of all the articles to be
user@ssf-sys.DHL.COM, but some of them come out with
user@machine.ssf-sys.DHL.COM, and others come out with user@DHL.COM.
The former are the Sun news users, and the latter are the HP news users.
Replies to adresses of the form user@DHL.COM will not make it back to 
our users!  When I made nntp, I defined HIDDENNET, and defined DOMAIN to
"ssf-sys.DHL.COM"

Right.

That makes the $64 question:
   
   Where does the "From:" header get generated, and how can it be changed
   to work properly from Pnews *and* from trn?

-- 
Corby Anderson, News Admin
DHL Systems, Inc. San Mateo, CA 94404
corby@ssf-sys.DHL.COM
Newsgroups: news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
From: shaun@octel.com (Ralph Neutrino)
Subject: Re: What is "pay-per-read"?
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 01:07:04 GMT

In article <23244@alice.att.com> jj@alice.UUCP (jj, old grump curmudgeon) writes:

>>So, jj - you want to tell us what _would_ be a violation of your
>>copyright? And are you willing to prosocute if we name companies that
>>are doing that?
>I'm not sure why you are attacking me so deliberately. 

You affix a sign that says "kick me" at the end of every article you post, 
someone asks politely for clarification, and you interpret it as an attack.

>You deliberately ignore the sixtifour of the discussion, 
>only to attack some poor soul who only wants to keep others
>from propagating his articles beyond nutnoise.  Why?  What's
>your problem?  Why are you deliberately harrassing me and
>trying cause me damage?   Why are you trying to break my copyright?
>Why are you trying to be the proximate cause?  Why, in heaven's
>name, would YOU want to be in such vulnerable position?

You are either bored, abused as a child, or a self-important idiot.  If you
seriously think that asking for clarifiction of an ambiguous notice you have
affixed to your articles for the express purpose of raising controversy is an
attack, or puts the questioner in a vulnerable position, then you should 
get away from Usenet.  Actually, you should probably stay off Usenet either
way, since any collection of Usenet material would benefit from the exclusion
of your bandwidth-wasting text with its bandwidth-wasting copyright notice 
along for the ride.  

>I'm only going to say what I said before:

Please, no.  Kindly say something new, or shut up.

>"Pay for read" means that somebody is charging for the information
>content, as opposed to charging for the computer usage, costs,
>etc.  If, to use an example that has happened, somebody took an article
>of mine and printed it in an audio magazine, that would violate
>my copyright.   If someone were to make a compilation of 
>"jj's articles" <YHWH knows WHY someone would, this is hypothetical>
>and sell it as "jj's articles", yes, that would be a violation.

You poor babbling sod.  I am going to construct a sale of a printed copy of one
of your articles, which will be just as artificial and contrived as imagining a
situation in which someone would want to use one of your whiney martyr articles
for the "information" contained therein, just to break your copyright.  In fact,
I'll use this one.  Lords knows it can't possibly have any productive use.

>Someone charging people to USE THEIR COMPUTER or their communications
>mechanism isn't charging for information.

Whatever. 

-- 
shaun@octel.com  ||  G is for Jesus

"We will buy Iron Camels from GoMotion
   Unlimited in Santa Clara California."
Xref: sparky news.admin:6315 comp.org.eff.talk:4947 misc.legal.computing:1567
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Newsgroups: news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
Subject: Re: Copyrights on netnews articles
Date: 29 Jul 92 00:45:43 GMT
Organization: Taronga Park BBS

In article <1992Jul28.003305.14528@gtephx.UUCP> forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:
>For the third of fourth time, (and no-one has countered this 
>yet) read the usenet primer from news.announce.newuser -- it 
>tells you point blank that what you post here is in the public 
>domain unless you copyright it.

Since it doesn't have the force of law, what's the point?

It doesn't even have the force of rules or contracts. There's no mechanism
forcing you to read it nor even, at many sites, telling you it exists. It's
even less meaningful than a shrinkwrap copyright inside an opaque box.

I think at best it's using sloppy language. I've done the same myself:
though what I said was that "for the purpose of redistribution" a Usenet
posting was "effectively public domain"... a much weaker statement.

Weaker, but still not true. By posting you're distributing your message
over a wide set of media through an automatic mechanism, and to individual
user's archival copies. I don't think it's reasonable to state anything
more than that.

I agree that "alice!jj"'s .sig is too fuzzy to be meaningful, but even
without it his articles do have some protection.
-- 
                                                                `-_-'
                         Have you hugged your wolf today?        'U`

Peter da Silva, Taronga Park BBS, Houston, TX  +1 713 568 0480/1032

Copyright 1992 Peter da Silva. All rights reserved. Permission granted
for individual archival copies, and automatic transmission via software
that selects articles for reproduction without human intervention.
From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: The Great Floating USENET Copyright War (was: NetNews/CD - USENE
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 19:07:32 BST
Distribution: world
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
> Hmmmmm. I hadn't thought of that, but you have an excellent point, for three
> reasons:
> 1) It makes no provision at all for someone off the net (or, for that matter,
> someone who doesn't know how to deal with a bang address) to request
> permission for republication.
> 2) I strongly doubt that "alice!jj" is a legally acceptable way to identify
> that particular person.
> 3) If such a case comes to court, it would be difficult to prove to a court's
> satisfaction that the plaintiff is indeed the person who wrote those words.

All three of those are easy to fix.


mathew
[ "A postal address, a name, and a copy of PGP" ]
-- 
"Even the most bizarre of the unions (probably that between a cat's gall
 stone and a single note 'G' from CNN's ident theme) managed to convey a
 sense of rampant impropriety."  -- 'Fortran Five', Simon G. Lawrence Leonard

Xref: sparky news.admin:6476 comp.org.eff.talk:5091 misc.legal.computing:1697