From: thompson@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Unprofessional Posts from Brian S.
Date: 14 Oct 92 13:44:11 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1992Oct12.230138.274@fcom.cc.utah.edu>, brian@jaguar.cs.utah.edu (Brian Sturgill) writes:
> In article <1992Oct12.062257.18201@netcom.com> xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters) writes:
>>Ok, I have bloody well had it up to here.  Before I get to the meat of
>>this post, I should make it clear that I'm not an OS/2 "advocate" in the
>>sense of thinking that OS/2 should "beat" NT.  I use OS/2 because it
>>happens to fill my needs at the moment.  I may well buy and use NT when
>>that comes out.  However, the incessant trashing of OS/2 by a certain
>>Brian Sturgill has finally reached the point where I can't take it any
> 
> I went back and checked the last 1,000 posts to c.o.o.a, your assertions
> in this tirade are largely unfounded.  Via e-mail, I'm sending you
> a copy of all my posts in this last 1,000 messages.
>

Which I later find out is 56 messages!  Yikes!  I would say each one is 
an average of 80 lines or so...that makes 4480 lines!!  Even being 
conservative, it comes out to 3000 lines.  I hope Mr. Waters doesn't 
have to pay by volume of mail traffic.  

> I have not been "trashing OS/2", if you mean by "trashing", sluring
> it with unfounded put downs. I have however been systematically
> pointing out its flaws, and in general I have meticulously pointed out
> my sources.  The care I exhibit in this documentation is rarely
> shown by yourself or other OS/2 advocates.

No ISV support.  I would call that an unfounded put down.  You were 
called on this a few days ago.  I think it was Fred but I'm not sure.
Care to respond?

> A "flame" implies unfounded negative tirades, while it's true that I
> nearly always add my opinions to my postings from other sources, I'm
> not sure why you call them flames.  I'm simply in the midst of pointing
> out a number of problems with OS/2.  Why am I wrong to do this?  I am

See above.

> currently of the opinion that OS/2 is not doing well, I express this
> opinion, and I provide quotes from many sources to back up my opinion.
> 

Cringely?  Hah hah.

>>That's fine.  A single post should be sufficient to make this statement.
>>12 posts per day flaming IBM and OS/2 is not the sign of a man who wants
>>to help his fellows--it is the sign of an angry and upset man who wants
>>to hurt someone.
> 
> Of the last 1,000 messages in this group, 56 were mine, less than 1% --
> 4.3 messages per day.  Now I ask you, don't you think claiming 12 posts
> per day is a bit irrational on your part?  You could just as easily
> have checked for yourself.
> 

Wrong.  5.6%.  And if the number of lines was used as the measurement,
that percentage would probably go up.

> As to a single post being sufficient... baloney!  OS/2 and its problems are
> far too complicated to cover in a single message.
> Further not all of my messages are of this nature, a full quarter of them
> are merely informational... check the file of messages I'm sending and
> see for yourself.

If Mr. Waters has the time and patience to wade through thousands of
lines of old postings that he has already seen.  I certainly wouldn't
have the time or patience.

>>attitude has become insufferable and insulting.  Why do you think that
> 
> I'm insufferable?  IBM sends a ridiculously flawed letter out to
> developers, I post it verbatim... who gets yelled at? Me!
> It's amazing really, I post quotes from Cringely, a Microsoft press
> release (about the NTSL report), and a letter from IBM... and
> people blame _me_ for what they say.
> 

Well, you posted them.  You posted the letter from IBM and whined about
the typeface.  You post quotes from a rumor-monger as supporting evidence.
Why don't we make up our own rumors and use them to support our posts?
You posted a Microsoft press release and people question the bias of
something from Microsoft concerning their product.  I don't think 
people were yelling at you for this post--just at Microsoft for their
ludicrous testing conditions.

>>people are flaming you on this group?  Is it because they're afraid
>>you're right?  I hate to tell you--it's not.  It's because you're
>>insulting people, and you show no signs of being aware of this fact. 
>>I'm sure that people who accuse you of lying and spreading FUD are
>>reacting out of hurt.  Think about your posts.  Think about the reaction
> 
> They say far worse things about Microsoft than I ever say about IBM.
> They personally attack me far, far, more than I personally attack them.
> (I try very hard to avoid personal attacks.. but in the heat of the
> moment I sometimes forget.)                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Well, you called one person an asshole twice in the same post for 
absolutely no reason.  You can't pass that off as forgetting to avoid
personal attacks in the heat of the moment.  You called Mr. Charlap
a muck-sucking slime (or was it something else).

>>Chris Waters    | the insane don't | NOBODY for President!

> I'm sorry that you don't like me pointing out OS/2's flaws, but you'd
> best get used to it.  If you can't stand the heat... well then you'd
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> best get out of the kitchen.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I think you just pulled a Clinton.

> 
> BTW, there is an obvious counter to what I'm doing, and I've noticed a few
> people have caught on.... go out and get your own sources to back your
> arguments.  Hell, quote Zachmann!  Don't worry, I won't be "hurt" if
> you do. :-)
> 
> C. Brian Sturgill                I strongly encourage you to read Ross Perot's
-- 
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| Charles A. Thompson      | thompson@ukanvm.cc.ukans.edu         |
| University of Kansas     | thompson@ukanvax.cc.ukans.edu        |
| > They call me SkiBum <  | OS/2, Bush, & Rush Limbaugh in '92   |
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