HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mancus@zaphod.jsc.nasa.gov (Keith Mancus)
Subject: OpenGL on Destiny
Organization: IGOAL, NASA Johnson Space Center, Houston
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:53:56 GMT

  Does anyone know when USL expects to ship OpenGL for Destiny?
-- 
| Keith Mancus    <mancus@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov>                         |
|                 N5WVR                                                  |
|  "If I owned Texas and I owned Hell, I'd rent out Texas and live       |
|  in Hell." -General Sheridan                                           |
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.opengl
From: jsw@microunity.com (Jeff Weinstein)
Subject: Re: OpenGl vs PEX
Organization: MicroUnity Systems Engineering, Inc.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:19:04 GMT

In article <Bvpxw8.K4x@apollo.hp.com>, mcsavaney_d@apollo.hp.com (#David McSavaney) writes:
> What about the software author that is required to purchase OpenGL source
> code to support platforms that do not provide OpenGL? What happens
> when they have to provide source code of _their_ product with embedded
> OpenGL calls to important customers? Or to put their application in escrow? 
> Do they have to pay the $300,000 (three hundred thousand dollars) for the 
> OpenGL source code license fee? What are the subsequent source code 
> redistribution fees?

  Are you suggesting that an application software developer would get PEX
from MIT, port it to some workstation platform that doesn't currently support
PEX and somehow integrate it with the hardware vendor's X server product(or
perhaps port the X server as well)?  If that isn't what you are suggesting
then I don't see why you are making this argument about OpenGL.

> Unfortunately SGI has adopted a three tiered software pricing structure
> similar to the software pricing structure used by many companies
> or products (take OSF's DCE pricing for example). It is a pricing structure 
> that is _only_ effective if all hardware vendors license OpenGL from SGI and 
> provide run-time libraries free of charge to customers - and that is just not 
> going to happen.

  I don't believe that SGIs pricing structure depends on all hardware vendors
licensing and shipping OpenGL.  There are companies like Nth graphics that
offer Iris GL and now OpenGL on a variety of hardware platforms such as Sun,
HP, DEC and Kabota.  As far as I know Nth Graphics has only a level 1 OpenGL
license, which is a measly $25k.  The small third party software developer
can buy GL for the Sun or HP for about $1000 from Nth.

	--Jeff

-- 
Jeff Weinstein - X Protocol Police
MicroUnity Systems Engineering, Inc.
jsw@microunity.com
Any opinions expressed above are mine.
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.opengl
From: jsw@microunity.com (Jeff Weinstein)
Subject: Re: OpenGL for SPARC GX
Organization: MicroUnity Systems Engineering, Inc.
Distribution: comp.graphics.opengl
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 23:18:38 GMT

In article <HOPKINS.92Oct4101811@ECP.GARNET.CS.CMU.EDU>, hopkins@CS.CMU.EDU (Don Hopkins) writes:
> Is there an implementation of OpenGL on the SPARC, for the GX graphics
> accelerator? 

  At SIGGRAPH someone from Nth Graphics indicated that they would have
such a product at the end of this year or beginning of 93.

	--Jeff

-- 
Jeff Weinstein - X Protocol Police
MicroUnity Systems Engineering, Inc.
jsw@microunity.com
Any opinions expressed above are mine.
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.opengl
From: shenkin@avogadro.barnard.columbia.edu (Peter S. Shenkin)
Subject: OpenGL Printers?
Organization: Dept. of Chem, Barnard College, Columbia U, New York
Originator: shenkin@avogadro.barnard.columbia.edu
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 03:00:37 GMT
X-Posted-From: avogadro.barnard.columbia.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

I posted the following to comp.sys.sgi, and someone suggested that I 
crosspost to comp.graphics.opengl, so I'm doing this now.  Prefatory remark:
this is basically a crazy idea that came to me on the crosstown bus. In
my experience, most crazy ideas I get on the crosstown bus are good ones,
but this is one I'm not really qualified to judge.

I'm wondering if it would be possible to devise an interpretive languge
which would do for the printing of 3D images what PostScript did for 
the printing of 2D images.

Right now, all techniques that I am aware of for printing a 3D image
involve passing a bitmap -- embedded in PostScript or in some 
other protocol -- to a printer.  This results in huge files (especially for
PostScript), and restricts the output to the resolution of the device from 
which the image was captured (eg, the screen), rather than to the intrinsic 
resolution of the ouput device (ie, the printer), unless I misunderstand.

There is no reason that OpenGL could not be ported to a printer.  If one
then had an ascii language that describes a 3D scene and that maps onto 
OpenGL, one could pass the scene description to the printer in concise ascii 
form, and it would render to the full resolution of the printer.

Right now there providers of packages that use GL face large problems in
getting good hard-copy of images in a general way.  It seems to me that this
would solve that problem.

Is such a thing possible?  Note that the implementation would not have to
be as blazingly fast as one needs it for interactive work.  Anyone who's
ever sent a PostScript bitmap to a printer knows how much room there is
for improvement.  Even a dumb implementation on a reasonably fast general-
purpose processor would probably suffice.

Even without an intermediate ascii language, it would be an advantage for
OpenGL to be ported to printers, it seems to me.  By rendering directly
to the printer, one could take advantage of whatever resolution and
other features the printer had.

Even short of this, the "port" could reside on the host and the appropriate
low-level bit-stream of printer commands could be sent to the printer --
which is how I suppose Freedom of the Press and similar products work for
PostScript.  But one loses advantages with each step down....

	-P.
-- 
************************f*u*cn*rd*ths*u*cn*gt*a*gd*jb*************************
Peter S. Shenkin, Department of Chemistry, Columbia Univ.,  New York, NY 10027
(212)854-8402    shenkin@avogadro.barnard.columbia.edu   shenkin@cunixf.BITNET
*********************** UNIX:  the wave of the present ***********************
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.opengl
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: OpenGl vs PEX
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:11:14 GMT

Currently PEX is free (MIT-X11R5-SI version) and OpenGl costs money.
Does anyone remember the contest between Sun-NEWS and XWindows a few years
back?  Many people thought NEWS to be technologically superior, but its
costs probably kept off most machines.

P.S. Then you get what you pay for with MIT PEX-SI :-)
From: gregc@socrates.ucsf.edu (Greg Couch%CGL)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.opengl
Subject: Re: OpenGl vs PEX
Date: 6 Oct 92 22:26:46 GMT
Organization: UCSF Computer Graphics Lab

A point of reference, HP asked me to borrow a workstation in August to
port my PEX application, but after it arrived I found out that "PEX is not
a product" and never got my application running on it -- even though I've
seen a version of PEX running on HP hardware at the last two SIGGRAPHs.
So if "HP supports PEX" it is not because they thought that it was good
enough to be a product.

Also, PEX is not free on workstations with 3-D hardware capabilities --
you have to buy the X server from the vendor because the vendor doesn't
release the hardware-specific code for the smart hardware, only the dumber
framebuffers.  This is a *good* thing, as I want the vendor's support
services and I don't want to be tempted to waste my time porting or
debugging X/PEX when I could be working on my application.

	- Greg Couch
	gregc@cgl.ucsf.edu

P.S.	Having programed in GL, Starbase, PHIGS, and DEC's PEXlib, I hope
	that I never have to program in PHIGS or PEXlib again (which appears
	to be only possible if GL or OpenGL becomes widely available).
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.opengl
From: saeed@a.cs.okstate.edu (SAEED FAISEL)
Subject: what do you know about IDS model ?
Organization: Oklahoma State University, Computer Science, Stillwater
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 92 23:10:28 GMT

I need some info on the IDS model suggested by Cornsweet & Yellot.
And I want to start with a comprehensive bibliography on IDS.

Any email containing any pointers like any work done related to IDS,
specially any publications, etc will be appreciated.

I would also like to correspond with anyone currently working on it.


-- 

Faisel Saeed
Computer Science Department,   Oklahoma State University,   Stillwater, OK 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: segal@spud.asd.sgi.com (Mark Segal)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.opengl
Subject: Re: OpenGl vs PEX
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:34:56 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: spud.asd.sgi.com

|                   Also, how different is OpenGL from GL? Is there
| separate documentation on OpenGL?

Here is a list of the major differences between OpenGL and IRIS GL
as currently shipped on SGI machines.  As Allen has already pointed
out, OpenGL man pages are available for anonymous ftp from 
sgi.com in the files sgi/OpenGL/{gl,glu,glx}.shar.Z.

OpenGL is rendering only.
  All window manipulation commands and input and queueing commands
  have been eliminated.  This functionality is achieved using the
  native window system.

Commands that allocated or controlled framebuffer resources
have been removed (e.g. gconfig() and drawmode()).
  These functions will be performed when an OpenGL window is created.

NURBS, circles, and arcs have been removed from the base OpenGL.
  Instead, a polynomial evaluation interface is provided which
  can be used to build these objects.
Character strings and fonts are gone;
  a general method is provided to specify bitmaps which can be used to
  build characters and character strings.
Concave polygons are also gone.
  A convenience library (the OpenGL utility library, or GLU for short)
  supports NURBS, circles, arcs, and concave polygons.  This library
  is shipped with every implementation of OpenGL.

Obsolete routines, like the old curve and patch drawing commands
(crvn(), etc.), and the relative polygon drawing commands
(polf(), etc.) are gone.

Many of the remaining command names have been changed slightly
to make naming more consistent.  This includes prefixing of all
commands with 'gl' and constants with 'GL_'.

'def' and 'bind' are gone.
  Lighting parameters and other values that were defined in a group
  and then bound are set using immediate-mode commands in OpenGL.

Display lists cannot be edited in OpenGL.

This list is by no means exhaustive, but it covers the major
differences.

	Mark
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.opengl,comp.sys.sgi
From: mark@cs.monash.edu.au (Mark Goodwin)
Subject: University source license to OpenGL
Organization: Computer Science, Monash University, Australia
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 23:09:18 GMT


Could someone from SGI please clarify SGI's policy with regard
to University licenses for OpenGL ?


In particular, we'd like to know:

  *  are the licenses available outside USA

  *  terms of the license (non-disclosure of source, etc)

  *  how much $$ and what do you actually get

  *  who to contact to get one



Thanks,

Mark Goodwin
Senior Programmer
Computer Science
Monash University 
A U S T R A L I A

FAX: +61 3 5655146

Newsgroups: comp.graphics.opengl
From: mcsavaney_d@apollo.hp.com (#David McSavaney)
Subject: Re: OpenGl vs PEX
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 21:19:19 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1ask10INNpo4@fido.asd.sgi.com> kipp@warp.asd.sgi.com (Kipp Hickman) writes:
>
>In article <1992Oct6.171114.12857@unocal.com>, stgprao@st.unocal.COM writes:
>> Currently PEX is free (MIT-X11R5-SI version) and OpenGl costs money.
>> Does anyone remember the contest between Sun-NEWS and XWindows a few years
>> back?  Many people thought NEWS to be technologically superior, but its
>> costs probably kept off most machines.
>
>Unlike NeWS, OpenGL has been agressively offered to *any* company willing
>to play buy its rules.  The cost is miniscule and is primarily to constrain
>the kinds of people getting hands on the OpenGL trademark and source code.
>The most expensive per-seat license fee is US$5.  And for people using
>Windows/NT, the cost is US$0.
>
>Finally, and most emphatically, these are *MY* personal opinions, and
>for a change, I am not speaking for all of SGI :-)
>
>					kipp hickman
>					silicon graphics inc.


Wait a minute, wait a minute!

(What follows is a prejudiced view of OpenGL written by an HP marketeer who
supports HP's firm endorsement of PEX, PEXlib and PHIGS as the open,
standard graphics 3D development system to choose for the 1990's. Please
excuse the interruption and I promise not to do it again. Flames directly
to me please).

What about the software author that is required to purchase OpenGL source
code to support platforms that do not provide OpenGL? What happens
when they have to provide source code of _their_ product with embedded
OpenGL calls to important customers? Or to put their application in escrow? 
Do they have to pay the $300,000 (three hundred thousand dollars) for the 
OpenGL source code license fee? What are the subsequent source code 
redistribution fees?

Unfortunately SGI has adopted a three tiered software pricing structure
similar to the software pricing structure used by many companies
or products (take OSF's DCE pricing for example). It is a pricing structure 
that is _only_ effective if all hardware vendors license OpenGL from SGI and 
provide run-time libraries free of charge to customers - and that is just not 
going to happen. As for the Windows/NT comment - OpenGL is scheduled for
inclusion in NT for release 2, in 1994. (I stand corrected here if 
other information is available).

Apologies for the interruption.

Not an official statement of Hewlett-Packard Company.
(because of the insecurity of the medium I am using and the 
possibility of spoof messages)

I _am_ able to talk to people about PEXlib and OpenGL and why
HP supports PEX. Just give me a call.

Dave McSavaney
Workstation Product Marketing                     
Hewlett-Packard Company

Tel : +1 508 436 4429

mcsavaney_d@apollo.hp.com


Newsgroups: comp.graphics.opengl
From: apas611@chpc.utexas.edu (David Boles)
Subject: Re: A couple of questions 
Organization: The University of Texas System - CHPC
Distribution: comp.graphics.opengl
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 92 05:13:48 GMT

In article debbie@cs.tamu.edu (Debbie Carlson) writes:
>Well, since no one seems to have written anything yet, I thought I'd start
>out with a couple of questions:  
>
>Will the Windows NT version of OpenGL have the same functionality as the
>high-end workstation versions?  Will z-buffering and lighting capabilities
>be implemented in software?  When will it be ready for sale?

Well, given that Microsoft hasn`t even shipped a beta of NT yet, and that
the pre-beta SDK they've been distributing doesn't have _any_ OpenGL
stuff in it, it doesn't seem likely to be out for at least a full calendar
year, if ever.

Given that, if NT ships OpenGL support, then I believe that it will
neccessarliy include support for the features that you mention.  I think
that in order to be "OpenGL", you must implement virtually all of the
rendering features present in GL at the moment.

There are a number of vendors shipping GL compatible libraries right now.
For the sun SPARC's there's Nth graphics library and I think DuPont Pixel
(or something like that) has also done a port.  And of course, you can
always get the real McCoy on an Indigo (and get a real OS and computer
to boot).

>
>Also, are there any plans to port OpenGL to the Mac in the near future?
>
>Debbie
>

Haven't heard anything about this.  However it's not beyond possibility
that the new PowerPC units from IBM and Apple could have such support
since IBM is one of the major users of GL (other than SGI).


Cheers,

David Boles
Aplied Research Labs
The University of Texas at Austin


Newsgroups: comp.graphics.gnuplot
From: her3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Helder E Rocha)
Subject: Model airplanes
Reply-To: her3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu 
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: rec.aviation.misc,rec.models.scale
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:39:39 GMT

I need any information on model airplanes and photos of airlines.

Thank you.
From: hopkins@CS.CMU.EDU (Don Hopkins)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.opengl
Subject: OpenGL for SPARC GX
Date: 4 Oct 92 15:18:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: ECP.HOPKINS.92Oct4101811
	<1992Oct4.054312.1513@microunity.com>
Distribution: comp.graphics.opengl
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: hopkins@ECP.GARNET.CS.CMU.EDU

Is there an implementation of OpenGL on the SPARC, for the GX graphics
accelerator? 

	-Don
Xref: sparky comp.graphics.opengl:22 comp.sys.sgi:14723
From: akin@sgi.com (Allen Akin)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.opengl,comp.sys.sgi
Subject: Re: University source license to OpenGL
Date: 7 Oct 92 00:23:18 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: tuolumne.asd.sgi.com

In article <mark.718412958@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au> mark@cs.monash.edu.au (Mark Goodwin) writes:
| 
| Could someone from SGI please clarify SGI's policy with regard
| to University licenses for OpenGL ?
| 
| 
| In particular, we'd like to know:
| 
|   *  are the licenses available outside USA
| 
|   *  terms of the license (non-disclosure of source, etc)
| 
|   *  how much $$ and what do you actually get
| 
|   *  who to contact to get one
| 
| 
| 
| Thanks,
| 
| Mark Goodwin
| Senior Programmer
| Computer Science
| Monash University 
| A U S T R A L I A
| 
| FAX: +61 3 5655146
Xref: sparky comp.graphics.opengl:8 comp.sys.sgi:14594
From: kipp@warp.asd.sgi.com (Kipp Hickman)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.opengl
Subject: Re: OpenGl vs PEX
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:56:48 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: warp.asd.sgi.com


In article <1992Oct6.171114.12857@unocal.com>, stgprao@st.unocal.COM writes:
> Currently PEX is free (MIT-X11R5-SI version) and OpenGl costs money.
> Does anyone remember the contest between Sun-NEWS and XWindows a few years
> back?  Many people thought NEWS to be technologically superior, but its
> costs probably kept off most machines.

I remember the contest quite vividly having been on the losing side of
that battle (SGI used to use NeWS for its window manager/server).  But,
I don't believe that in this case that the comparison is quite valid.

Unlike NeWS, OpenGL has been agressively offered to *any* company willing
to play buy its rules.  The cost is miniscule and is primarily to constrain
the kinds of people getting hands on the OpenGL trademark and source code.
The most expensive per-seat license fee is US$5.  And for people using
Windows/NT, the cost is US$0.

Most importantly though, is that unlike the X/NeWS wars, it is quite
reasonable to have a machine do both PEX and OpenGL at the same time,
efficiently.  For some applications a PHIGS like approach can be the best
approach.  For many applications, this isn't true, and OpenGL offers a
better solution.

> P.S. Then you get what you pay for with MIT PEX-SI :-)
If you are lucky, this is true.  When you purchase the OpenGL sample
implementation, you get an implmentation that has been proven to
port rapidly to widely different architectures, and that has a
reasonable structure in it to allow high performance implementations
without rewriting the entire thing (I am biased here - I wrote most of
it).

Finally, and most emphatically, these are *MY* personal opinions, and
for a change, I am not speaking for all of SGI :-)

					kipp hickman
					silicon graphics inc.
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.opengl
From: jsw@microunity.com (Jeff Weinstein)
Subject: Re: A couple of questions 
Organization: MicroUnity Systems Engineering, Inc.
Distribution: comp.graphics.opengl
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 05:43:12 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.011328.2491@tamsun.tamu.edu>, debbie@cs.tamu.edu (Debbie Carlson) writes:
> Will the Windows NT version of OpenGL have the same functionality as the
> high-end workstation versions?  Will z-buffering and lighting capabilities
> be implemented in software?  When will it be ready for sale?

  OpenGL requires that all capabilities be implemented.  There is no
"subsetting" allowed.  They provide a conformance test suite to licensees
which must be passed before the product can be shipped.  If the particular
hardware doesn't support a particular feature then it must be emulated
in software.  Someone from SGI said that OpenGL would be included in the
second release of NT, which was planned for early 1994.

> Also, are there any plans to port OpenGL to the Mac in the near future?

  At the OpenGL bof at SIGGRAPH they said that RasterOps had licensed
OpenGL and would be providing in on their graphics boards for Macs.

	--Jeff

-- 
Jeff Weinstein - X Protocol Police
MicroUnity Systems Engineering, Inc.
jsw@microunity.com
Any opinions expressed above are mine.
From: aru@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Sri Ramkrishna)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics,alt.internet.services
Subject: InterNet Map?
Date: 1 Oct 92 15:08:02 GMT
Followup-To: poster,comp.graphics
Organization: Purdue University

hi!  This is a inquiry about whether someone has a map of all the major internet
sites in the world?  I need it as a visual aid for a presentation about email.
If someone can send me one suitable for me to print out, whether it be in
postscript or whatever.  Ideally I prefer something I can print out on the
calcomp printers.  Any information leading to such a thing, would be great.  
Thanks again!!  One other thing, I don't frequent these groups very often, so
if you can send me personal mail on it that would be great.  Otherwise I will
check every once so often.  Thanks!

	sri

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|Sriram Ramkrishna			    email:			      
|Purdue University Computing Center          internet: aru@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
|General Consultant/Systems Operator         bitnet: xaru@purccvm.bitnet
	
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
From: paulf@halcyon.com (Paul Forgey)
Subject: Re: Public domain Raytracing programs
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. (206) 455-3505
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 00:34:08 GMT

misb2jen@dct.ac.uk writes:

>There are two very good raytracing programs around in Public Domain:

>- THUNDER   it has an English title but the program itself is German. If this
>            is of no use for you, try this one:
>- DBW_RENDER   This program has great specials like mirroreffect for the three
>            different main colors, transparency, ambient and diffuse lighting
>            and much much more. It's one of the best Public Domain programs
>            I've ever seen
>Unfortunately I've no idea where you can get these programs from. The only
>thing I know is, that it is obviously on some BBS etc in the US (but this info
>might not help !?!)

White Sands Missle Range (192.88.110.20) in pd1:<msdos.graphics>
From: morley@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: Anyone got a 3D mesh of a rose?
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:33:06 GMT
Organization: Camosun College

Hello everyone...

I'm looking for a 3D mesh of a rose.  I need to use it in an upcoming
animation I'm doing for a company here.  I'd prefer a DXF, DWG, or 3DS file
format, as I'll be doing the final project in 3D Studio, but I'll take
anything I can get.  I'm not sure at this stage how much detail we'll need
so I'm open to all types of roses (realistic or otherwise).  If you also
have textures that go along with it, that would be great.

Please respond via email, and thanks in advance!

MARK
morley@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Newsgroups: comp.graphics