HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: neil@progress.COM (Neil Galarneau)
Subject: Info on _Leopard II_ by Tsukuda/Quarterdeck?
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:23:21 GMT

Is anyone familiar with a game called _Leopard II_ by Tsukuda Hobbies (I
think it was imported by Quarterdeck Games)?

It is a tactical tank game (gee... what a surprise :-)).

I have seen this game in a local game store but don't know if I should risk
the money.

If anyone can give me any information, I would be grateful.


Thanks,

Neil
neil@progress.com
From: wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu (Rick Russell)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: An interesting question (any game)
Date: 11 Jan 1993 00:28:16 -0600
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: tamsun.tamu.edu

>hooverb@cs.wvu.wvnet.edu (Bruce Hoover,Armstrong) writes:

>> Can anyone provide historical examples of a culture which was willing to
>> face  cultural anihilation in order to dismay a foe?

The Celtic Iberians, or 'Celtiberos' in Spanish parlance, were largely
exterminated by the Romans in their conquest of Spain. The Romans
described whole cities which had, apparently, committed mass suicide
rather than succumb to Roman siege warfare.

Japanese families were well known for committing suicide when their
armies lost in the field, fearful of capture by their enemies. See the
movie "Ran", by Kurosawa, for some examples.
-- 
#      Rick Russell | TAMU Meteorology | wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu       # 
#     "I am Elfy of Atlantis." "I am Jo-Jo of Munchkinland."           #
#     "We are Elfy and Jo-Jo!"                                         #
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: lerouxm@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (Markie Mark)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: An interesting question (any game)
Date: 9 Jan 93 00:23:37 GMT
Organization: CS Dept, Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: prism.cs.orst.edu

In article <1993Jan8.202241.25023@netcom.com> fred_s@netcom.com (Frederick Scott) writes:
>lerouxm@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (Markie Mark) writes: 
>
>>Look!  The guy has obviously become predictable in every game he
>>plays.  You know what he will do so take advantage of it.


*OR*  (for those of you who don't recognize that I am starting 
	another paragraph and another idea)


>>If you want to, just declare at the beginning of the game in
>>which you are playing with him, "I am going to destroy you no 
>>matter what the cost to myself or others.  Nothing matters
>>to me except that you must lose."



Most of the responses to this thread have been questioning whether
it is a good tactic to hurt an opponent in a good position to 
prevent them from 
winning.  However, I don't think the person who started this 
thread wanted to discuss that problem.  I beleive the problem
was that a certain annoying player when forced into an unwinnable 
situation would spare no expense at destroying the other player's
chances at winning.  This is meant to be a spiteful act that serves
only to vent the annoying man's anger.


This discussion has nothing meaningful to add to this newsgroup.
The vengeful player has a personal problem and should read alt.grow-up 
or alt.life.get-one.  

--Mark
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: casper@vxcrna.cern.ch (CASPER,DAVI./PPE)
Subject: Re: An interesting question (any game)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 01:43:00 GMT

In article <1ikoohINN599@shelley.u.washington.edu>, cummings@stein.u.washington.edu (Michael Cummings) writes...
>In <1993Jan8.193058.7765@cis.ohio-state.edu> farrell@python.cis.ohio-state.edu (christopher k farrell) writes:
> 
>>	This issue has been discussed repeatedly in the past few years on
>>r.g.b, and I'm starting to tire of it a little!  I really see no reason for
>>this endless debate.
> 
>	Debates like this recur partly because the readership of this (as
>any other) group is in a state of flux and new people appear and start
>these threads.
> 
>	I think we need to bear this in mind and be patient when we think a
>topic's been beaten to death.

Amen.  And there are about a dozen "The Allies/Axis (take your pick) have no
chance/always win (take your pick) in Axis & Allies" for every one on this
subject.  I've been here over a year, and this is the first I've seen it.


Dave
From: charbonn@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (gary charbonneau)
Subject: Re: An interesting question (any game)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:59:21 GMT

In article <19335@mindlink.bc.ca> Bruce_Harper@mindlink.bc.ca (Bruce Harper) writes:

>So I would say avoid games where suicides are the only viable response, and
>avoid players who employ such a strategy.

I agree that it would be nice to play a game where other options were avail-
able.  On the other hand, as others have pointed out, the threat of suicide
(or rather, mutually assured destruction) has its place as a viable defensive
strategy.  When used offensively, it's rather rude.  Our group would not
avoid offensive suiciders or fail to invite them back -- we would simply
get together and carve them to bits at the outset of the next game.  For
some reason, this usually causes them to stop showing up on their own....

- Gary Charbonneau
  charbonn@silver.indiana.edu
 

Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: harry@medusa.dseg.ti.com (harry campbell)
Subject: Up Front
Reply-To: harry@medusa.dseg.ti.com
Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:39:43 GMT

I've looked at Up Front in the game shops, and I'm thinking about buying it.
What do people think about it?
Do you have to know how to play Squad Leader to play it?
Can it be played solitaire?

Thanks
Harry Campbell
harry@dseg.ti.com
From: rpfaff@umiacs.umd.edu (Ray Pfaff)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: 1830 questions
Keywords: 1830
Date: 10 Jan 93 20:26:32 GMT
Organization: UMIACS, University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742

My gaming group finally got around to playing 1830 the other night.
We liked the game quite a bit, but there were several questions that
we had which were unclear in the rules.
1. When you play the operating round, does each railroad play a token,
set up railheads, ect. or do you alternate.  I.e. each railroad lays a
token, when all are finished, each lays a railhead if desired, ect.

2. Do the split tracks (tiles which have one track on one side and 
two splitting off (no cities on it) count as two seperate rails for
the purpose of determining routes?  In other words can I have two
trains running routes over that tile?

3. When the first railroad buys a 4 train, does only that railroad's
2 trains get removed, or do all the 2 trains on the board get removed?
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: shoham@ll.mit.edu (Daniel Shoham)
Subject: Re: 1830: Track construction
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 19:02:15 GMT

In article <1ibtl8INNu5@news.uni-paderborn.de> jerry@uni-paderborn.de writes:
>A question on constructing track:
>
>The rules say that the green tiles, once they are available can be used
>to REPLACE existing yellow track tiles.   Is it possible to use a green
>tile to construct NEW track?   Or do I always have to place a yellow
>tile first and then replace it by a green one (and perhaps later by a
>brown one) ?
>
>Thanks for any help!
>
>	Jerry
>--
>  Gerald Siek  -  jerry@uni-paderborn.de  -  University of Paderborn, Germany

Generally no!

However, some hexes are painted yellow (like the homes of NYNH, B&M, B&O, and
Eire; and all the OO hexes). Those hexes act as if a yellow tile is allready
on them and can be "replaced" by a green tile.

In no case can a brown tile be placed unless it is replacing a green one.


A side note: Hexes that have a cost attached to them ($80, or $120) must be
paid (only) by the company that first places a tile there - yellow or green.

Also note that some yellow tiles cannot be replaced (like those pesky $10 
stations tiles).

- Hope this helps.


Dan Shoham               shoham@ll.mit.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The view presented are not necessarily those of my employer, etc.

Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lincoln Laboratory
244 Wood Street
Lexington Massachusetts, 02173-9108
Office B-373
617-981-3515
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: DungeonQuest - discussion requested
From: gunelson@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Jeff Gunelson)
Date: 11 Jan 93 10:15:40 -0600
Reply-To: gunelson@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

I have DungeonQuest (from Games Workshop (?), makers of Talisman) and the
Catacombs expansion set.

After playing it a couple of times, I have noticed that this game is open to a
wide variety of house rules and modified games (as is Talisman).  I was
wondering if anyone else plays this and would care to discuss variations of
playing, ambigous rules, and other expansion sets.  I would welcome feedback
either on Usenet or through e-mail.

For example, one variation I sometimes play with my (very) younger brother is to
draw tiles and play it as a maze only, with special rules for each tile.  This
makes less of a mess, and makes it easier for both him and I to play.  Also,
this is a quicker game.

And I am also curious if anybody feels the other expansion set, the one with the
players, is worth it's cost.

Thanx in advance,
Jeff
"     "     "     "     "     "     "     "     "     "     "   __ " __  "  __ "
   ,^                                                            \\   \\   // `
  " .\       Jeff Gunelson, St. Cloud State University, MN        \\   \\ // _
 "   _)       Internet:  gunelson@tigger.stcloud.msus.edu       \__Y.\__Y.Y__/.
 |__`
 [___]   "It was a dark and stormy knight...Actually he was just in a bad mood."
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: phaedrus@halcyon.com (Mark Phaedrus)
Subject: Re: An interesting question (any game)
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 03:20:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.000751.1@us.oracle.com> cracicot@us.oracle.com writes:
>Is it a reasonable game action (in game of your choice) to threaten
>someone as follows, then carry through if they call your bluff:
>"If you don't do/refrain-from action X, I will spend the rest of
> the game making you do as badly as possible.  I don't care how
> badly it wrecks my position."

     I think this depends heavily on context.  If you're playing a screw-thy-
neighbor type of game (say, Junta), this seems like as reasonable a tactic as
any.  Most of the time, though, I think it's reasonable to expect people to
play to maximize their own chances of winning, not to throw the game to
somebody else.  In most situations, intentionally self-destructing your own
position in order to destroy someone else's as well is (IMHO) poor 
gamesmanship.  The most blatant example of this I can think of is a Monopoly
game I was involved in; Player A, facing four of Player B's hotels and about
a 70% chance of landing on one and going bankrupt to Player B, instead offered
to buy Water Works from Player C for all his cash on hand, then sell all his
properties back to Player C for $1.  (In other words, basically go bankrupt to
Player C, rather than taking the chance of going bankrupt to B.)  To his
credit, C told A exactly how much of a jerk he was being, and refused to deal
with him; A landed on B's hotel and went bankrupt, and C would up winning 
anyway.)

     But anyway, in the long run there's only one sensible way to respond to
this tactic:
     "If I let you get away with that once. you'll be able to control me with
that same tactic in every game we ever play, and winning this one game isn't
worth that.  So if you insist on trying to destroy this game for the rest of 
us, go ahead; I'm going to keep right on with what I'm doing."
     If a player consistently throws games this way, it's worth talking about
it with the rest of the group.  I've been in groups where somebody finally had
to be told, "We're all getting pretty tired of you throwing games whenever
you're losing.  If you do that once more, it will be the last time you play
with us."
-- 
\o\ Internet: phaedrus@halcyon.com  (Seattle, WA Public Access Unix)     \o\
 \o\ "How'd you like to move a few steps down the food chain, pal?"       \o\
  \o\ If you enjoy fantasy/SF stories with transformation themes, email me \o\
   \o\ for a copy of the Transformation Stories List.                       \o\
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: rbr@well.sf.ca.us (Bob Rossney)
Subject: Re: New Mayfair Games
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:47:37 GMT


Re:  Shark, Murphy, and Sindbad

Shark is an interesting and fairly lightweight game, somewhat of an Acquire
variant, as was said, but worth keeping around (though if anyone were to
offer me Cartel in trade for Shark I'd take it in a second).

Murphy is an interesting game with three people, or four at the most.  It is
a TERRIBLE game with five and six.  The game is basically a race to collect
pieces of information, and every player gets one piece of information per
turn, which means that the length of the game increases linearly with the
number of people playing.  It's a fun game at an hour long, but at two hours
long it drags and drags.  I'd call it an interesting failure overall.

Sindbad is a messy but amusing game with lots of luck and not much elegance,
except in the very clever design of the cards.  Flying Turtle games are
designed for distribution throughout the EC, which means that none of the
components have any text on them.  Since Sindbad's design uses cards that,
in a normal world, would say "Draw one pearl" or "Go back two spaces" or
"Lose all your stories," the graphic designers had to get clever and invent
an icon-based language for use on the cards.  It works, actually.  It's a
fun family game, but I don't see it occupying the attention of my weekly
gaming group.

Bob Rossney
rbr@well.sf.ca.us
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (K. Mitchell Bose)
Subject: Across Five Aprils...How is it?
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 23:41:11 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

Back in town after the holidays, I noticed a Civil War-era game from Victory
that I haven't seen before.  Billed as a set of five small scenarios using a
streamlined rules system (and rated as "Very High" for solitaire play, though
not mentioned anywhere else on the box), I'm curious as to what opinions are 
on its quality.  Any reviews out there???

-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) * kbos@carina.unm.edu * Walks: not that sexy.
"Halt!  Based on conclusive dental evidence that truly bites, I arrest you 
 hereby for the murdering of the dead Belzic Tascar.  I am obliged to warn you 
 that my weapons are registered as offensive fronds!!"- R.M.Allen, "Monkey See"
From: rpfaff@umiacs.umd.edu (Ray Pfaff)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: board games for sale
Date: 5 Jan 93 01:02:26 GMT
Organization: UMIACS, University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742


I have the following games for sale.  This includes $2.00 for postage.

If first class is less than or equal to $2.00, I'll mail it that way,

otherwise it's 3rd class unless you want to pay additional postage



 United Nations                             $10.00

 Desert Victory                             $15.00

 Deluxe Federation and Empire Conversion    $10.00

 Sucession Wars                             $10.00

 Command Magazine's Desert Storm            $10.00

 Star Frontiers                             $10.00

 Last Battle                                $10.00

 Advanced Squad Leader                      $25.00

 ASL Beyond Valor (Unpunched)               $25.00
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:33:03 EST
From: <TMS139@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Games for sale
 <1993Jan11.183712.15993@ils.nwu.edu>

Hello.  $30 for Russian Civil War.

Tim Snyder.
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: matt@severian.chi.il.us (Matt Crawford)
Subject: Re: Civilisation on a Sun or a Mac
Organization: The Chrome Plated Megaphone of Destiny
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 02:10:51 GMT

> >What surprised me when I saw the game Civilization for the computer was
> >that they omitted the multiplayer option.  
> 
> Actually, from what I've seen (I own a legit copy of CIV), it's
> just an enhanced version of the older computer game, EMPIRE.  ...
> Who wants to sit around for twenty minutes per other player and
> wait for them to put in their moves?

For a computer-based multiplayer old-empire derivative, get xconq.
(Consult your local archie for location.)  The computer *can* play,
too, but if you have no human opponents, you better take on at least
3 computer countries to get a fight.
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: jleitzel@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James W Leitzel)
Subject: Help with Space Fleet
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:15:14 GMT

Hello all!

	A friend of mine and I sat down to a nice pleasant game of Space Fleet
last night, and we had an interesting (and annoying) situation arise. He
was playing the Eldar and I was Imperial. He had 2 Wraithships and 2 shadow
things (I forgot the name), and I had 2 Gothic class and an Ironclad.

	On turn one, he opened up with all 4 plasma torps, and successfully
wiped out a Gothic and the Ironclad. Ouch. Now here is the problem I have. The
Plasma Torp rules seem to state that all hits are critical ones, so we were
having the damn things ignore shields. This makes the plasma torp really nasty
against the imperials. Even the Ironclad got nuked. Contrast this to the 
Imperial Vortex torp, which (If it hits) does a d6 of damage, but no criticals
unless you roll a 6 on a die. On a Power gaming level, the Eldar are definitely
the way to go. Any Ideas, comments, of generals hints?

	Also, just as a side note, the Ironclad ignores any hit that the dice
read a 3 or less. This means that only a 4, 5, or 6 will do damage. However, a
6 will still do a critical. This seems to me to indicate that 1/3 of the hits 
on an Ironclad will be a crit, as opposed to 1/6 for other ships. Same deal
with the small Eldar Shadow(hunters?) with Holofields, they Ignore all dice
that score less than or equal to their current speed. They can also potentially
go at speed 6, which makes them invulnerable at that speed. (Admittedly, their
maneuvering is limited at that time, but still...)

well, that is all for the while, I thank you for your support.

jim leitzel

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| I take so many guilt trips, I qualify for |      Oh look, how quaint.      |
| frequent flyer miles. - Jon Arbuckle      |        A .signature file       |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: feldman@wsyd.com (Nancy Feldman)
Sender: Usenet@wsyd.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Advanced Civilization and Two Players
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1993 16:39:02 -0500

Someone said there was an Independent Kingdoms variation for Advanced
Civilization that makes the game more interesting for two players, but I
haven't seen it.  Could someone repost it, or drop it to me in Email?

Thanks.


... It's not that I don't trust you   Or is it?
 * Origin: Purgatory BBS: Salem OR (1:105/605.0)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: kwhitley@oracle.uucp (Kevin Whitley)
Subject: Re: Looking for Dragonriders of Pern Game
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Redwood Shores CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 23:31:46 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

Ugh - that empty message was an emacs problem...

I've got a copy of this game.  Played it once or twice and found it mildly
interesting as an evokation of the Pern world, rather dull as a game.
What's this game worth, if anything?

Kevin
kwhitley@us.oracle.com - usual disclaimers, of course
From: hcobb@fly2.berkeley.edu (Henry J. Cobb)
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
Subject: Re: SFB: photons & warp use
Date: 8 Jan 93 21:24:52
Organization: /rubin/hcobb/.organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: fly2.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: rhame@ctp.com's message of Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:15:32 GMT


	Why move and charge up Photons at the same time?

	Move speed 31 while holding 'Normal' torps and park next to your
victim, er honorable opponent.

	Next turn do a "Halt and Catch Fire" and expend 20 points on
photons. (I always imagine Scotty throwing this big switch labeled "warp
shunt" from "Move" to "Kill" ;-)

	Heck, the Picard Maneuver was on TV just this past week...
--
	Henry J. Cobb	hcobb@fly2.berkeley.edu	SFB Tyrant
	"A const pointer is a steady reference,
	while a pointer to const is a pledge not to tinker."
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: Bruce_Harper@mindlink.bc.ca (Bruce Harper)
Subject: Re: An interesting question (any game)
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:08:32 GMT

In Advanced Civilization a suicide tactics ("I'll take you with me") might be
termed "reverting to barbarism".  In our group, someone who employed this
approach wouldn't be invited back.  I remember a Risk group being killed by
such tactics years ago - it became standard for players to threaten (and
carry out) suicide attacks.

The alternative was demonstrated in a Risk game we played for old time sake
recently (a different group).  One player got into a terrible position, but
instead of suiciding, he put all his remaining units in Greenland and didn't
even take territories to get a card.  Since he had no cards, there wasn't any
incentive for anyone to finish him off, so he was ignored and eventually he
recovered sufficiently to reenter the game.  He in fact won, which vindicated
a strategy worthy of a several times US Chess Champion (which he has been).

My assertion that such comebacks are virtually impossible in Diplomacy
(especially if you've been eliminated) has been disputed by Diplomacy fans,
but I still think that's the major flaw in that (and many other) multi-player
games.  The "ethical" thing to do when you're in trouble is fight to get back
into the game and win, but if the game doesn't really allow it, it encourages
suicide at another player's expense.  But such an approach is akin to "taking
your ball and going home", unless you're playing some sort of nuclear
deterrence game in which suicidal attacks are the main strategy.

So I would say avoid games where suicides are the only viable response, and
avoid players who employ such a strategy.
Newsgroups: rec.games.board
From: sos@oz.plymouth.edu (Steffan O'Sullivan)
Subject: Re: Up Front
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, NH.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 22:41:06 GMT

harry@medusa.dseg.ti.com writes:
>I've looked at Up Front in the game shops, and I'm thinking about buying it.
>What do people think about it?

I like it a lot.  Very fine game, can be played quickly, very high
replay value.  Modular system of rules, which frankly could be more
user-friendly, but I've seen worse.  You play a couple of games with
limited rules, then add on a new rule or two and play some more
scenarios.  I recommend, though, that you either pick up Banzai or the
General issue that had the articles describing the game statistical
breakdowns.  For some people, it helps visualize how to play better.

>Do you have to know how to play Squad Leader to play it?

Not at all.

>Can it be played solitaire?

Not very well, no, unless you are VERY schizoid.

-- 
  - Steffan O'Sullivan		         sos@oz.plymouth.edu