HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: TBACKMAN@finabo.abo.fi (Timo B{ckman TF)
Subject: Information wanted
Organization: Abo Akademi University, Finland
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 10:34:58 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.23


Two notices from the local papers that I haven't seen yet in r.a.s. 

1. McLaren will use Ford HB V8 engines 1993. They have to use the same
engines as Lotus. Benetton will have the latest versions. BUT in 1994
McLaren will use AUDI engines. Audi has withdrawed from the DTM championship,
and are now coming back to F1 in 1994. Can anyone confirm this?

2. The season start has been postponed. The first race will be held, not
in the end of february, but a week or so later. This has been decided to
give the teams more time to build cars for the new rules. And only 15
races next year (no Autopolis).


It's SO much fun with these articles in newspapers. You never can tell if
they are correct or if they only get something out of their head to keep
up the interest in F1 (Icehockey is getting more space these days).

I have a database with various information about the teams. I would be glad
if those of you that have any information about team manager, designers,
chief engineers, and so on could send me your information, so that I could
update my database (it has much information about the 1992 season, but very 
little about next season). Thanks in advance.

Timo Backman
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: chucko@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Chuck Fry)
Subject: Re: Buck Baker Driving School
Organization: Recom Technologies, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:26:17 GMT

Aeons ago, someone posted this:
>I can recommend that you take the Fast Track High Performance
>Driving School at Charlotte Motor Speedway to get a good feeling for asphalt.
>I took the school as a fan this year and it was a great experience.  They
>provide Winston Cup, BGN and Sportsman cars in a three day basic oval course
>for $1800.  Call Andy Hillenburg there at 704-455-1700 and tell him you heard
>about the course from a ***VERY*** satisfied graduate.

Does anyone know which of the two Andy Hillenburgs this might be?
There were two young sprint car racers by this name, one from Indiana
and the other from Oklahoma.  One or the other said his intent was to
go stock car racing, but I'll be damned if I can remember which.

 -- Chuck Fry  Chucko@charon.arc.nasa.gov
From: bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: F1: 3 year Technology Freeze
Date: 19 Nov 92 13:00:38 GMT
Organization: School of Biological Sciences, University of Bath, UK

Autosport says that Bernie Ecclestone will propose a three year
freeze on new technology in a January summit meeting. He also
thinks that a handicap system could be introduced, to add weight
to the first six finishers, like in the GTCC. He said, "Too many
people in F1 think short term.  But we must be mindful that we
are involved in entertainment as well as sport."

Flavio Briatore of Benetton said, "Sponsors have indicated to me
that they would like to see the trend of 80% of the money going 
into research, and 20% into entertainment reversed.  They want
most of their money going into increasing the entertainment value
of the sport."

Apparently, now that TV coverage is fairly widespread, sponsors
cannot be offered more exposure than they already get.  Hence
the priority to reduce the costs and to increase the entertainment.


			Andrew  Henry
Sempre  Gilles					bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
From: smith@comm.mot.com (Jeff Smith)
Subject: Re: Nissan and IMSA
Organization: Motorola Land Mobile Products Sector
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 22:53:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.173023.6489@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, cweber@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Christopher D Weber) writes:

|> Well I'm not going to argue about the pros and cons of the two marks, but I 
|> think you'll have to agree that the 911 has and still is more successful in 
|> more different racing series throughout the world. Of course you can argue that
|> the 911 was around a lot longer and that the RX-7 is much younger.  But you 
|> have to also look at the time frame.  Porsche wasn't focusing its "factory 
|> might" on racing versions of the 911 when Mazda was with their RX-7.  So you 
|> can expect Mazda to be successful.  But...look at this years Supercar Series.  
|> The 911 Turbo and Turbo S simply drove circles around the RX-7s.  I'm not 
|> disputing Mazda's success, certainly they have had plenty, but I believe the 
|> 911 to be the superior model.  Only time will tell if I can say that in the 
|> future.

The Mazda was nailed with a *huge* weight penalty in the Supercar series.
With *completely* unmodified factory production cars, nobody will drive circles
around the Mazdas (Danny Sullivan turned in faster lap times in the RX-7 than
in the 911 turbo in a comparison article in one of the rags). 

jds

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: open-wheel drag (Re: F1 Stuff)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 09:45:10 GMT

In article <BxMEru.Ks1@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cjp53999@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Cory James Padfield) writes:
>   I recently saw on this group a Cd of .98 to 1.1, depending on whether
>the car was a long oval, short oval, or road course car.
>
>Compare this to my '82 RX-7 which is .34.
...
>     What minivan has a Cd lower than .34. I know the Mercury Villager,
>Nissan Quest, and Chrysler XXXX are fairly aerodynamic, but I haven't 
>seen for sure anything around .34. Just curious.

Cd is only part of the equation.  you also need to know the frontal
area.  a minivan might have a Cd of .34 or whatever, and it would
have more aerodynamic resistance than a small car with the same Cd.
the drag is proportional to the Cd and to the frontal area.
i think the GM minivans (lumina APV, olds silhouette, pontiac trans sport)
have pretty low Cds, but they definitely have more frontal area than an
RX-7.

-teddy
a rec.autos.driving voyeur
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: klui@corp.hp.com (Kenneth K.F. Lui)
Subject: Re: Re: IMSA history (was Nissan and IMSA)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 09:20:16 GMT

In article <136040001@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com> blanch@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (David Blanchard) writes:
>I would personally be more interested in seeing people run cars that
>relate to real cars. Cheaper, lower tech cars. Cars that can be owned
>by people, not just mega-corporations.
>
On the other hand, I like to see what kinds of stuff
manufacturers have up their sleeves and watch the "ultimate" in
racing technology in action.  I see normal regular cars every
day and they're, well, basically pretty boring.

>Personally I enjoy racing on road courses, but viewing is another matter.
>I choose circle tracks every time for viewing.
>
Hmm, maybe it's me, but I've always preferred to watch road
course races.  There's more variety and keeps me from falling
asleep.  I can never understand why the Indy 500 is so popular--I
mean, it's so boring to watch; but I have to admit that all the
air-time the qualifying events make up for the boredom,
especially if someone crashes big time and all the networks
replay the accident 5 times per day. :-)


Ken
-- 
Kenneth K.F. Lui, klui@corp.hp.com                  3000 Hanover Street MS20BJ
Corporate Administrative Information Systems        Palo Alto, CA  94304   USA
Core Application Technologies                1(415)857-3230 Fax 1(415)852-8026
From: dans@rehab1.UUCP (Dan Schein)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Richard Petty on Letterman (Wed Nov 18)
Date: 20 Nov 92 14:08:14 GMT
Reply-To: dans@rehab1.UUCP (Dan Schein)
Organization: Reading Rehab Hospital, Reading PA

In article <184326@pyramid.pyramid.com> danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones) writes:
>The King is scheduled to be on David Letterman tonight.  Also last
>week, Nigel Mansell was scheduled on the the show.  Did anyone happen
>to see it?

  Bloddy hell! Not that im a fan of the King, but to miss ol Nigel....
 Just more agro to add into my life :-(

  Im either going to have to start reading the TV Guide or get Dan Jones
 to e-mail these items directly to me.

 -Dan

 PS: Did anyone see the really cool looking F1 (Nigel!) T-shirts in AutoWeek?
     I made sure to show it to my wife in case someone needs a holiday idea.
-- 
  Reading Rehabilitation Hospital       |         Parenting, Firefighting,
  Dan Schein - Information Systems    __|__       Programming, Rappelling,
  RD 1 Box 250                   ______(*)______  and Network Scapegoat
  Reading, PA 19607                   o/ \o

  rehab1!dans@cbmvax.commodore.com -OR- {uunet,rutgers}!cbmvax!rehab1!dans
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: jrp@bohra.cpg.oz.au (John Pitman)
Subject: F1 trivia
Keywords: strirling Moss
Organization: Computer Power Software
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:39:46 GMT

>> common with Dick Seaman, Moss and ?
> they all died in crashes

I bet stirling moss will say something like Churchill ' reports of my death are
greatly exaggerated'  - he drove in this year's Tasmanian Targa Rally (and did
have a small prang in practice)!
jp
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks)
Subject: Re: World 600
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 04:05:28 GMT

Radio 90.1 FM WLAY Tarkington Hall writes:
>>It's been announced that the 1993 World 600 will start at 4:30 p.m. EDT
>>on May 30... Charlotte will continue to get their money's worth out of that
>>multi-million dollar light system.

Tracy L. Brooks writes:
>The World 600 at 4:30pm on a Sunday?  Surely if they have it at night it
>will be on a Saturday.  I hope so anyway.  If it is on a Sunday evening
>they will be a lot of people missing work on Monday ;-)

Only if those people work on Memorial Day......

Rob U
--
-       Rob Unglenieks             REAL race cars DON'T wear BOWTIES       -
-  "It is the foreign element that commits our crimes.   There is no       -
-   native criminal class except Congress."  [Samuel Langhorne Clemens]    -
-  (Don't look at me, I DIDN'T vote for Clinton.  Will Engineer For Food)  -
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: sebruun@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (steve.bruun)
Subject: Re: Prost won't race #0 next year
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:41:42 GMT
Summary: Just airing a pet peeve...

In article <10292320.7134.20157@kcbbs.gen.nz>, Stuart_Laing@kcbbs.gen.nz (Stuart Laing) writes:
> Dan Jones wrote
> >
> >According to last Thursday's AutoSport, Prost refuses to race
> >#0 next season.  I say screw him, if he doesn't have a #0 on
> >the side of his car, his laps don't count.  Its time for FISA
> >to flex a little muscle.
> I must agree, as a Timekeeper cars with incoreect numbers and hard to
> see numbers are a pain in the butt. The way that Team Willy will get
> around this problem is to have either difficult to read or ambiguos
> numbers ala the Brabhams when they had that LCD style number and the two
> cars could  get badly confused.

OK, finally someone's given me an opening so I can scream about one of my
biggest complaints about F1.  No matter how hard you try, you can almost
never read the numbers on the cars anymore.  I realize that space on the
flanks is worth megabucks/pounds/etc., but those dinky little digits they
put on the endplates of the rear wings are useless, especially since they
are so frequently obscurred by the rear tires anyway.  Checking the nose
of the car for numbers is often an exercise in futility as well.  I enjoy
trying to bring new fans to the sport by showing them videotapes of some
of the more exciting races, but it's awfully frustrating to have to tell
them that the only good way to tell Senna from Berger (for example) is by
the color of their helmets.

I would love to see a rules change mandating that a car's number must be
displayed on the airbox in black Helvetica style digits no less than ten
inches tall, surrounded by a white meatball if necessary.  I really think
that this would do more to enhance the casual fan's ability to follow the
action and thus become more interested in the sport than nearly any other
change.

All right, that's it.  I'll climb down off the soapbox now...

- Steve Bruun, ...!att!ih!ihlpe!sebruun

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: menolen@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Elena M Nolen)
Subject: Winston Champ
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:34:57 GMT

         

            Well, that was something I didn't expect to see in that race.
        That's okay, Davey will get them in '93. It was certainly a good
        race to end with.......excitement....Richard P. in a "blaze of 
        glory " .That was incredible, my SO and I were taking bets on 
        whether that would happen or not. We also took another bet. Did 
        he or did he not say "Get the ------- fire extinguisher" or not?
        ESPN didn't catch that quick enough. On the replay, you can tell
        it's edited though. Well, all in all it was a good season.....
        And for "3 in '93" . That depends on whether someone will submit 
        to being his crew chief or not.  I still want to see Bill or Davey.
        But the way Kyle and Mark Martin have been running , they may be
        a surprise for all.   See you in 91 days........
From: louise.norgaar@idcbbs.uu.holonet.net (Louise Norgaar) 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: F1 Stuff
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:18:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: IDC BBS - Alameda, CA - 510-865-7115
Reply-To: louise.norgaar@idcbbs.uu.holonet.net (Louise Norgaar) 

To: Ric.Johnson@f4.n290.z1.aisbbs.com (Ric Johnson)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 18:50:06

    Lord, I hope I'm doing this right!  This is my *very first*
    USENET message and I get to send it to you!!!  Aren't you 
    lucky!!! <vbg>  I'll leave you a message elsewhere to make
    sure you look for this puppy!!  How's things going??
---
 . KingQWK 1.05 # 88 . Can you say Andretti vs. Senna?  ...I knew you could!
From: tvp53202@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Toby Vaughn Padfield)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Information wanted
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:38:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bxx4sn.Hxo
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

marti@inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti) writes:

>In article <1992Nov18.103458.17614@abo.fi> TBACKMAN@finabo.abo.fi
>(Timo B{ckman TF) writes:
>>Two notices from the local papers that I haven't seen yet in r.a.s. 
>>1. McLaren will use Ford HB V8 engines 1993. They have to use the same
>>engines as Lotus. Benetton will have the latest versions. BUT in 1994
>>McLaren will use AUDI engines. Audi has withdrawed from the DTM championship,
>>and are now coming back to F1 in 1994. Can anyone confirm this?

	I have heard that Ron Dennis has been trying to get Ford engines,
as well as every other engine out there. Who knows what engines McLAren will 
use?!?!?

>I can confirm that Audi has withdrawn from the German Touring Car
>Championship aka DTM.  They will run a car (or cars) in the French
>Touring Car Championship, though!

>As for their alledged F1 plans, there has been some speculation in
>Motorsport aktuell.  Indeed, they had an interview with Dieter Basche,
>the guy in charge of Audi's sports activities, who neither confirmed
>nor denied a possible F1 involvement.  He even mumbled something that
>1994 would be a little early.  Hans-Joachim Stuck was reported as
>saying that, at the present time, there were some "preliminary studies"
>as to what kind of engine might be best (V8, V10 or V12).  Motorsport
>aktuell went even further and speculated about a "W12" design (3 banks
>of four cylinders with a common crankshaft).  Apparently, Audi already
>has a 6 litre W12 engine for a show car which was shown in Tokio (?)
>last year.

	The car you are referring to is th eAudi Avus, named after the famed
track in Berlin. It did, indeed, have a 6-litre W-12, said to produce 500+
horsepower. Audi was considering production of this car, for over $1,000,000
a a pop! As for making an F1 engine out of it, I doubt that. A more lkely
bet would be a brand-new 3.5L V10. The Audi Avus was introduced at the Tokyo
Motor Show, by the way...



>I guess we'll have to wait and see if anything will ever come
>out of this ...

>-- 
>Robert Marti                    |  Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60
>Informationssysteme             |  FAX:      +41 1 262 39 73
>ETH-Zentrum                     |  E-Mail:   marti@inf.ethz.ch
>CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland     |


TOBY...
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: CENG51@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Craig Witkowski)
Subject: Re: 16 From Bob Kehoe-- Re:  PITSTOP
Organization: Motorola
Date: 19 Nov 1992 07:15:14 CST

>Tuesday, November 24th, the checkered (or should we say the black) flag will
>drop on the PITSTOP - the weekly motorsports radio program I've been fortunate
>enough to present over the airwaves of the Pacific Northwest the past 13 months
>(66 2-hour shows to be exact).  The decision to discontinue the show was that
>of new station owners, feeling that the context of the show did not fit within
>the 'all-sports' nature of the station.  At the moment, I don't know what the
>future will bring regarding the resurrection of the show on another station,
>but I can say that there's some interest that way down the road.

If PITSTOP doesn't fit into an 'all sports' nature,  that decision must have
been made by people with the IQ of an avocado who would have to ask "Who is
that in the #43 car? There's no name over the window".

My condolences to Bob and the fans of PITSTOP.

>bob


>If you reply to me I'll forward anything to Bob.  Or you can e-mail
>him directly at "bob@ncube.com".

>Ben
>--
>Ben Bradley                            Rally Drivers Do It Sideways!!
>Reed College
>Portland, OR                           The little critters of nature,
>bradley@reed.edu                       They don't know that they're ugly.



Craig Witkowski, CENG51@maccvm.corp.mot.com
Motorola Communications & Electronics Inc.
Glen Rock,  NJ

Let's Go Racin'!
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                     AMERICA'S ULTIMATE MOTORSPORT!
From: gfg@bohr.physics.purdue.edu (Gabriele F. Giuliani)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: I asked Michael (I WISH I DID!)
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:20:29 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Psychic Department

This regards my previous posting on Andretti "the elder". Mario Andretti was
born in Trieste (Italy) a few centuries ago, yet I consider him an american
driver since he started his career and learned the ropes in USA, driving
midgets etc. etc. He came to drive for Ferrari (and rather successfully at 
that!) as an american driver (there had been other before him as you know!). 
In fact Enzo Ferrari had an unwritten yet explicit policy of NOT hiring 
italian drivers at Ferrari after Lorenzo Bandini tragically died at Monaco 
in quite an avoidable fire accident (he was attended to way too late by the 
not so competent and trained track attendants). gfg

PS: By the way, by making use of a similar argument Eddie
Cheever should in fact considered an italian driver (although, mind you, not 
a major one ;-) ). In fact Cheever has become a race driver basically 
pursuing an italian driving career. He was a young star at the local 
"autodromo" in Rome (Vallelunga) where he raced in all kind of standard 
italian competition. Back then he was in fact nicknamed "l'americanino di Roma"
(the little american from Rome) in the italian press. 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks)
Subject: Re: Mario (was US Cit)
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 05:05:06 GMT

Anthony Anderberg writes:
>I think Aldo was Mario's brother.  If I remember correctly (and I seldom do) 
>they raced togather early in Mario's carrer until Aldo was in a serious 
>accident and got hurt badly.

Aldo is Mario's twin brother.  Aldo was injured in a sprint car accident
in Des Moines in the 1960's.  An interesting piece of trivia:  The man in
Mario's Indy qualification photo of 1969 is not Mario, but is Aldo.  Mario had
some serious facial burns from a practice accident.

Aldo is a very nice man and loves to talk about John.  He has some awfully
funny stories about the early days of the Andretti's racing careers.  Ask him
about them sometime.....

Rob U
--
-       Rob Unglenieks             REAL race cars DON'T wear BOWTIES       -
-  "It is the foreign element that commits our crimes.   There is no       -
-   native criminal class except Congress."  [Samuel Langhorne Clemens]    -
-  (Don't look at me, I DIDN'T vote for Clinton.  Will Engineer For Food)  -
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: chucko@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Chuck Fry)
Subject: Legibility at speed
Organization: Recom Technologies, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:09:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.164142.27524@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> sebruun@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (steve.bruun) writes:
>I would love to see a rules change mandating that a car's number must be
>displayed on the airbox in black Helvetica style digits no less than ten
>inches tall, surrounded by a white meatball if necessary.  I really think
>that this would do more to enhance the casual fan's ability to follow the
>action and thus become more interested in the sport than nearly any other
>change.

The sprint car guys do this right.  The number is on the wing's
endplate, usually painted two feet high, and on the tail, generally
about 18 inches high.  No problem with legibility there.  NASCAR also
has rational number legibility rules.

But I'd like to go one step further.  I've often thought that the
sanctioning bodies should require the driver's name to be readable at
racing speeds from the stands.  And if you really want to be fair, I
believe the driver's name should be in letters as big as the primary
sponsor's name, since the sponsor is only putting up money, while the
driver is literally putting his life on the line for the sponsor.
Think about that the next time you look at a formula car close up and
can't even locate, much less read, the driver's name.

 -- Chuck Fry  Chucko@charon.arc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: dwood@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Deron A Wood)
Subject: IMSA meeting
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:42:34 GMT

IMSA held a meeting Tuesday to discuss future plans for the GTP series.  One of
the things to come out of the meeting was the use of open cockpit cars.  Sounds
interesting, but I have to wonder the intelligence of such a move for a series 
that is on its deathbed.  The article was in yesterday's USA Today.  If anyone 
else has any information, I would greatly appreciate it.


Deron Wood
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: mcclure@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Subject: Re: Yet more trivia from Autosport (Answers -- finally!)
Reply-To: mcclure@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale, California
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 20:17:33 GMT

In article <8720@dirac.physics.purdue.edu>, gfg@bohr.physics.purdue.edu (Gabriele F. Giuliani) writes:
>.... wait a moment, .. a plane? I thought the great Graham Hill died in a
>damn helicopter crash. Can anyone confirm/wet this? gfg
>
>

Gabriele,
Graham Hill died in a light plane (i.e., small private job) along with Carlos
Pace.  I believed that they were returning from or going to a test session
(where I don't remember, might have been Argentina or Brazil?).  I believe
that Graham was the pilot at that time.  I will try to dig up my notes when
I get home tonight.
Kent M. McClure
Auto racing afficionado and member of San
Jose IPMS chapter.
My views are what they are, like them or not.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport