From: marek@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Marek Lugowski)
Subject: Re: Anglocentricism in rec.arts.poems /Marek (Re: Urdu Knowledge...)
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 22:17:45 GMT

In article <steele.722281683@chip.aem.umn.edu> steele@aem.umn.edu (Stephanie Steele) writes:
>mcoffin@IASTATE.EDU (Marie Coffin) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Nov19.175925.14938@zip.eecs.umich.edu>,
>>bhattach@quip.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
>>> 
>>> On a related note, I am disappointed to find that rec.arts.poems
>>> is so Anglocentric and so Eurocentric. Poetry of non-Western
>>> cultures, particularly those of the Third world, is rarely 
>>> discussed here. (I may be wrong, because I have time to read this
>>> group rarely, but this has been my impression so far).
>>> 
>>> Enjoy!  
>>> 
>>> -Sayan Bhattacharyya
>
>>Sayan:  (a) Last time I looked, Sheila was a girl.
>
>yes, sheila is a woman, and uh, not a Hardon either....

Some people just cannot resist sprouting a phallic symbol, even on a
woman... :)  Sheila Rap's Resident Ms. Bizarre has been a Hardon woman since
August this year and a Miguez Texan from Port Arthur before for a few more,
years that is. :)

I think it is endearing how some Indians have a tough time telling female
names of the Anglos -- as is the converse.  This means there should be more
cultural cross-dating, I think.

>>	(b) You are correct that there is not much discussion on r.a.p. about
>>	    poetry of Third World cultures.  That is not because we don't like 
>>	    it, it's because we don't know anything about it.  Please feel free
>>	    to post more information, and especially more poetry, from the
>>	    Third World culture of your choice.   Of course, this has nothing
>>	    to do with Urdu, which, as we have all been told, is not a culture.

Hey, Marie, curb your tongue.  Such irony...  you might curdle the growing
Urdu culture on rap.  Just because Ali doesn't think the literary language
of the Indian subcontinent forms a culture should not distress us.  He is
not an armchair anthropologist, after all...

>>It all comes down to this:  we can only talk about what we know about.
>>If you have specialized knowledge of poetry, please share it.

Agreed.  Anyone with any knowledge, and many without any, should share it,
or publically air it...

>>Marie Coffin
>
>marie, i don't think it is sayan's or any of the other 'urduers'
>responsibility to come to us and enlighten us regarding their language,
>poetry and or culture. although i only caught the tail end of the urdu
>debate, and did not vote on the issue, i understand and respect the need
>of groups 'outside' of the dominant culture to form organizations solely
>dedicated to discussing and preserving and strengthening their own
>culture, language. arts, etc. i understand that most of the rappers
>that voted against the urdu group did so in the hopes of broadening
>the diversity of rap, but in the end it seems obvious the the 'urduers'
>needed their own 'place' to work (i don't ever recall any big debates
>when i was in school on whether or not there should be a Black Student
>Alliance or the Hillel Club or the Latin Club or MEChA- monimiento
>estudiantil chicano de aztlan.)

Yes, but I know of no campus where Polish Young Republicans have
incorporated, or, for that matter, a Hillel Club for Urdu Speakers
has taken hold.  Your analogy, Stephanie.

Many people on the net voted against rapu because they are against its
placement in the net.hierarchy.  (This includes several experienced net
administrators who do not appear to post here.)  It sets a bad precedent,
as it surely will become a general forum for talking in Urdu about all
things Urdu, and the charter makes little attempt to hide that.  It's so
like you, Stephanie, to have a definite opinion on something, state it,
and add that, of course, you couldn't have been bothered to follow the
process/disussion/vote.  I believe this smashes your credibility to bits.

For what it's worth, I would have supported an Urdu group if it did not
live under rec.arts.poems.  For the record, I offered Ali to conduct a
vote so that he would not have to go through the trouble again, but he
ignored my offer.  Furthermore, I have no plans to help Urdu poetry become
segregated into a rapu ghetto.  I too will get into it if only to learn
more.

>Now that the urdu group is available

...not quite.  recount in progress.

>it seems that everybody should benefit. the >urduers are in a space in
>which they feel empowered to argue and discuss urdu ideas/poetry, and >all
of us lucky rappers have a great place to go now in order to learn >from
them. i mean, if we have the choice, and we want to really get >to *know* a
dish of palak paneer, do we go over to Diwana Indian >restaraunt in Temple
City, Ca (right next to the McDonald's on Las >Tunas Blvd, across the
street from the Kentucky Fried Chicken) or >do we go to some nice little
dive in Kadiri, Andhra Pradesh?  > >steph..

We make our own.  It's very easy.  Works well *even* with frozen chopped
spinach and canned Rogan Josh sauce.  And by the way, would you be more
specific with directions to the dive in Kadiri, Andhra Pradesh?  Seems like
you don't know as much about that dive as about the McDonalds on Las Tunas
Blvd as you let on.

				-- Marek

P.s.  Indian food in India isn't always as good as Indian food in the U.S.
Not having eaten at Diwana, I can only recommend Chicago's, Dallas'
Boston's and New Hampshire's (even!) Indian and Pakistani restaurants.
I am sure that you would find a palak panir to your liking in many a place.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.poems