From: alan@auntbea.austin.ibm.com (Alan R. Weiss)
Subject: Re: Liberty (was something relevant about CO-2 long ago...)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:19:33 GMT
Organization: (speaking only for myself from Austin, Texas)

In article <1992Dec21.164230.17150@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:
>In article <BzM8Fq.97F@austin.ibm.com> alan@auntbea.austin.ibm.com (Alan R. Weiss) writes:
>>
>>Do you believe that applying sound marketing principles to
>>getting your ideas actually ADOPTED by lots of people is a
>>nitwit idea?  If so, then you must enjoy talking *INSIDE*
>>your safe-space.  
>
>Do you have any idea what marketing is?  It is polite, it is
>rude, it is nice, it is mean, it is communication, it is
>miscommunication, it is above all getting people to pay attention.

Yeah, since I graduated with Bachelor of Science in Marketing
Management.  I also own my own business.  I know a little about it.

Fundamentally, its about getting people to buy-in.  Paying
attention is only one part of it - once you GET their attention,
you need to close the sell.  If this sounds a little too business-like
for a social engineering discussion, I'm sorry.  I see little
difference between selling policy and belief systems and selling
pancakes.


>There is nothing fundamental about sugar coating anything, ideas
>included, that 'sells' it better.

That's funny.  How can the beer people sell so much partially
fermented grain beverages that tastes like sour hops?  They
associate it with CUTE BABES and HUNKY DUDES having FAR more
fun than YOU'VE ever had in your life. :-)  :-)
If that's not sugar-coating .....

>  There's nothing nice about hate
>and bigotry and they're very well marketed,

Please cite examples.  For instance, the Moral Majority did a
POOR job of marketing themselves - and folded.  In contrast,
Pat Robertson does a dandy job of marketing his brand of
fundamentalism.  Pat doesn't come off as hateful (just
incredibly close-minded).  Bigoted?  Its not packaged that way -
its packaged as "family values" - Mom && Apple pie.
Sorry, I believe you are factually incorrect here (i.e., WRONG).


> so lay off the bullshit

ooohh, so macho.  Such a top.

>that if feminists would just dress up their ideas in pretty clothes
>they would sell because:
>
>1) its not necessarily true

Correct, not NECESSARILY true, just a much higher probability.
And hey, what's WRONG with making an essentially righteous
set of principles more attractive, so long as the principles themselves
remain intact?  We're NOT talking about changing them - only
subtly influencing people's PERCEPTION of them.

>2) it assumes that ONLY by being nicey-nicey it would sell

Never said that.  I suggested that its ONE way of selling the concepts.
Not the only way.  ACT UP! has another way of selling their
concepts, and it *may* be effective - its too early to tell.  But
note that, until now, ACT UP! has NOT been effective in garnering
much research money for AIDS.  Are there parallels?  Maybe.


>3) it assumes that its the feminists' job to do this in the
>first place.  (hell, I spend some of my time educating ignorant
>strayt people, but it isn't MY job, its theirs)
>
>Ry
>ry@usl.com

Oh Ry, how silly of you.  Of COURSE its their job - THEY are
the True Believers.  Unless THEY do it, who will?  Not people like
me who believe, but don't particularly feel the need to act
on it publicly!  Its not in the forefront of MY mind.
Gloria Steinem does it, Germaine Greer does it - "it" is called
persuasion.  And, BTW, the "THEY" can be "US" if they choose
to be inclusive.  If they exclude almost half the human race
in "their" quest, "they" will fail.

Do you want success, or do you want to be didactic?
NO, my way is not the ONLY way - and I'm not suggesting that.
I'm suggesting:  LETS DISCUSS SUCCESS STRATEGIES.

Your turn, Ry/Melinda/Mara.  What's YOUR answer for this question:

"What is the quickest and most effective way to change the thought
patterns of this society?"

-- 
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