From: kaic@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au (David Chan)
Subject: Re: * ASIANS FACE RACE BIAS -a reply to an aussie reply-
Organization: Electrical and Electronic - University of Melbourne 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 00:49:33 GMT

detchay@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (TONY CHAY) writes:
	[...]
>>|> jlam@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au (James Lam) writes:
>>|> >kaic@mamura.ee.mu.oz.au (David Chan) writes:
>>|> >
>
>        Lets talk Tango people,  I'm an Australian, from the country.  In 
>the City I being ingnorant of public transport, etc.  have also been 
>targeted for being ignorant, It's a power game people play, when they know 

	Excuse me, but it seems to me that you have misread what I wrote.
My friend and I have not been targeted for ignorance (I've used the Met
for a few years by that time). Reread the orginal. To me, it was a clear case
of racial discrimination when only non-white 'offenders' were singled out
but white 'offenders' let off the hook.

>your in a weak and vulnerable position then they'll make themselves feel 
>good by exercising their power to make you feel shit.  Don't go labelling 

	Of course it is a power-game. That's why I encourage overseas students
to be more assertive and stand up for themselves if they are in the right.
Most 'power-players' are balked when their victims actually 'hit-back'.

>Australian's racist because you get hassled sometimes in these situations.  
>Sure some Aussies may think you're all sub-human, buy most don't.  Alot ill 
>feeling towards overseas students stems from the following:-
>
>	1.  Asians often stick to themselves, most don't mix with the 
>average Aussie student.  

	Sad but mostly true. Overseas students from Asia tend to do that.
IMO, that's natural for those who have NEVER left their home country before.
If you went to an Asian country for the first time in your life (and you've
never been out of Australia before), I am certain that your natural reaction
will be to stick to Australians (or whites) there, at least initially.

	However, once overseas students have gotten over the 'home-sick'
and 'culture-shock' period, there is IMHO every reason for them to start`
mixing around with local students (whites and others). As I have said
many, many postings ago, (and others have mentioned it since), going overseas
to study isn't just about getting a degree and going back home after that.
A necessary and integral part of studying overseas is getting involved with
extra-xurrixular activities, getting to konw Australians (and their culture as 
well as that of other countries, represented via the international student 
community on campuses), making friends and establishing contacts.

	For those overseas students choosing to isolate themselves, well, it
is their loss (IMO).

>	2.  I get ranckled when I am in an elevator and a group of Asians 
>talk in their own language.  

	By that remark, you show yourself to be intolerant. I'll not bother
to comment much (others before have done so already).

	However, I want to point out that it is not polite to converse
in your own mother tongue if you've got people in your group who do not
understand it (eg. 3 friends; two of them are conversing in a language 
that the other can't understand). If everyone in a group can speak and
understand one particular language, then it is their business if they choose
to do so. Why would a total stranger to that group be bothered?

(Of course, as with most things, there are exceptions... )
 
>	3.  Often the only clubs they join at university are Malaysian Law 
>Students, Hong Kong students, etc ,  So further segregating themselves, don'
>t blame the Aussies for getting pissed off at your almost secretive and 
>seperatist behaviour.

	Aside from political groups, some other Australian dominated clubs
may not be relevant for Overseas Students at all. For example, in Melb. Uni.,
most overseas students will not join clubs like F.O.U.L., C.H.A.S. (unless
they read Douglas Adam's books), the Doo-doo-Da-da Club etc. AND, clubs 
like the Greek Club and the Jewish Students Society will make overseas
student members feel unwanted (they may not even be able to join). I know,
because I was a Greek Club member! But, you will find overseas students in
clubs like sports clubs, the Engineering Orchestra (ie Music based), stamp
society etc. When joining clubs you need to take into consideration the
interest of the overseas student. It is natural for Malaysians to join
Malaysian clubs etc. But a lot of the members of those ethic clubs would be
members of other clubs which are, arguably, 'Australian Dominated'.

	Secretive? Isn't that a stereotype of orientals???	B-)

>	4.  I have witnessed and been involved in many situations where 
>Asians have made it quite clear that all Australians are just Beer swilling 
>non-serious students who are basically dumb.  Here is the Yellow superiorty 

	I find that hard to believe, for I swill beer as much as, if not more
than the average Australian! I love my Vic Bitter, anyone (of any colour of
the spectrum, infra or ultra) thinking that beer swilling and being 'non-
serious' is dumb are probably quite dumb and narrow-minded themselves.

>making the Aussies angry that you come over here and knock us and our 
>culture and our differing work ethic.

	What about Aussies who knock overseas students, their culture and
their differing work ethic?
 
>      5.  With THousands of Australian students missing places at 
>universities across australia, and maybe some here not doing the course they 
>really wanted to.  Isn't it understandable that when they see so many Asian 
>students taking up places at university ( and they dont frankly give a 
>bloody stuff about the financial aspects of O/s Students) they'll feel 
>cheated and resentful.

	Of course it is understandable. But those Australian students thinking
that are also misguided, and should be corrected if at all possible. The
points that you mentioned in (5) are exactly what real racists use to incite
the hatred of other people (not of their race). The same is true all over the 
world, not just here.

>	Please note that the above points are not exclusive to Asians 
>students nor does it apply to all asian students.  But from my 2 years at 
>Uni it seems to be a fairly widespread trend.  

	Noted.

>		A final word on a part of miss Mioa's article.  She talked 
>about how the lecturers treat Asians as sub-human etc, etc.   Let me just 
>say that most lecturers think of all undergraduates as not worth talking 
>too, they really don't care about us.
	
	Not entirely true. Maybe for first years, and simply because there
are so many of them, that lecturers can appear impersonal or hostile.
My own experience as an undergrad has been: Lecturers are really impersonal
and appear not to give a shit about first year students. In later years
however, I find that lecturers are friendlier, especially if you don't waste
their time. Students who don't do their work and try to take 'the easy way'
out are generally disliked by lecturers.  

	[other stuff deleted]

Regards,
DC

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