From: larry@peak.psl.nmsu.edu (Evil Engineer doin' it the Cowboy Way)
Subject: Re: Taxing the Rich (was Re: Clinton Appeals to Hate)
Organization: New Mexico State University, MetaPhysical Science Laboratory
	<1992Sep22.182122.6964@galileo.physics.arizona.edu>
	<LARRY.92Sep28081726@peak.psl.nmsu.edu>
	<1992Sep28.174542.1961@anasazi.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 00:19:48 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.174542.1961@anasazi.com> john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore) writes:
     [...]
   ]I've heard these same tired arguments again and again: "You can't tax
   ]corporations - all they do is pass the tax on and hurt the consumer, or
   ]lay people off". And, "if you took ALL the money from the rich, it
   ]would only run the government for XXX days anyway."
   ]
   ]So? No one is demanding ALL the money from the rich. They just want the
   ]rich to pay a fair, reasonable share of taxes. If the middle class has to 
   ]pay ever increasing taxes, then why shouldn't the wealthy also (who seem to
   ]have an inordinate amount of political and legal power anyway)? I'm not
   ]arguing the justification for increasing taxes, I'm arguing that we all
   ]should bear our tax burdens with some degree of equity. When Grandma ends
   ]up paying a larger percentage of her retirement income to taxes than a large,
   ]profitable corporation, something is wrong.

   Yes, this would be true. However, it is not the case. The rich pay
   far more than their share of the taxes, as do profitable corporations.
   If you knew anything about tax law and how it works, you would realize that
   the rich are paying a lot more of their income than anyone else.

Yes, and *your* argument would be perfectly valid if Granny had the same
staff of tax people helping her minimize the actual tax she paid. She
doesn't.

I'm fully aware of the graduated tax scale and higher rates according to
income. In practice, it doesn't mean a heck of a lot. I defy you to find
me any successful big corporation which actually paid anywhere near the basic
tax rate. So who's fooling whom here?

Frankly, as an individual, I'd really like to pay taxes on my actual 
*profit*, instead of my basic income, like a corporation does! Who
wouldn't? (I've been itemizing since 1969 myself, including Schedule C for
my home business, and it just ain't the same..)

   But then, your arguments sound a lot like "from each according to
   his abilities, to each acccording to his needs." Is that what you really
   mean?

My arguments say nothing of the kind. And if you keep quoting the
Communist Manifesto, I might begin to think you are trying to categorize me
as some extremist whacko, just because I suggested the concept of tax equity.

It doesn't mean I'm not a believer in basic capitalism. 

How would you feel about a straight percentage rate? Without deductions?
Too simple?

   ]
   ]The assumption is apparently that corporations and the rich are so righteous
   ](by virtue of spending money to consume labor resources and goods, you see) 
   ]that they need to be excused from paying their fair share of tax. Seems
   ]like they ought to happily support a system which continues to provide 
   ]them with their great prosperity.

   First of all, you haven't defined "fair share." Second, you have
   to realize that corporations always pass their taxes on - either to
   their investors or to their customers. The customers are ordinary
   people, and most of their investors (through their pension plans)
   are also ordinary people. You simply do not shift the burden to
   the "rich" by taxing corporations... what you do instead is shift
   jobs and capital to the orient.

Correct. I didn't define "fair share". I doubt that we can arrive at a
consensus on it here today. Therein lies the whole problem, doesn't it? 

Second, I'm not trying to simplify the situation, and your points are
definitely valid to a large degree. But it doesn't mean that gross
inequities are non-existent in the current system.

I never said: soak the rich. I said: the rich ought to happily pay 
their fair share of taxes (just like the rest of us). There is a
difference, and a degree.

Apparently the very concept of the rich paying ANY taxes really pisses
some people off.

L.
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