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From: I.T.Marsh@man0507.wins.icl.co.uk (I.T.Marsh)
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Subject: Re: Souness/Liverpool/Rangers.
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 14:32:22 +0000







In article <MNEWS.715617264.11348@gate.demon.co.uk>
J.M.Ross @man0507.wins.icl.co.uk writes:

>In article <1992Sep3.164806.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk> cbar40@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
>writes:

>>In article <1992Sep3.080652.25779@spider.co.uk>, gavinm@spider.co.uk (Gavin Mc
C

a
llum) writes:
>>>
>>> I think one problem Souness will find is that just buying players
>>> wont work as well in England as it did in Scotland.Being blunt
>>> bringing players like Hatley,Walters,Stevens,Mcall,Gordon(?) and
>>> Steven to Scotland was a good move cause most Scottish Football is
>>> Crap!.

>>Correct, it boils down to opposition.  It has been said by most pundits that
>>yir averager manager witht the budget of Glasgow Rangers could dominate
                                          ^^^^^^^
>>Scottish football as seems, to an extent, to be the case of late.

>The name of this team is just "Rangers Football Club". It has never been
>and I hope never will be "Glasgow Rangers". Given the budget of Rangers yer
>average manager could dominate most Leagues, England included.

For the past 20 years Manchester United have been spending huge 
quantities of cash with numerous managers and still haven't won the 
league. Were all the managers below average?

>>  Rangers fans
>>will note however that the achievements of GS pale when compared witht those o
f


>>say Jock Wallace in the 70's who put an end to the decade of domination by Joc
k


>>Stein's (one of the 3 greatest managers ever) Glorius Glasgow Celtic by winnin
g


                                                      ^^^^^^^

>>two trebles, and indeed managing to win the ECWC in 1973 - perhaps if it
>>weren't for the Stein Team Wallace would have won quite a bit more besides.

>Wallace took over in summer 1972 from Willie Waddell *after* that glorious
>night in Barcelona. Wallace inherited a very fine Rangers team which had been
>denied league honours under Waddell by an even finer Celtic team. Souness took
>over Rangers when they had just suffered their worst season ever (less than 50%

>of points taken for the only time in their history) and made them champions the

>next season.

>The name of that team is "Celtic Football Club". Why do peope who should know
>better find it necessary to prefix Rangers and Celtic with "Glasgow"? Is it to
>avoid confusion with Berwick Rangers and Stalybridge Celtic?

>>Now
>>to the point, Wallace achieved all of this when competition was fierce and
>>on a very limited budget - Sounness on the other hand did not achieve even one

>>treble at a time when Scottish football was at a dismal low.  He never, for
>>example, succeeded in lifting the Scottish FA Cup and for a man who wished to
>>be " judged on his European record" was knocked out consistently in the early
>>rounds by teams he underestimated.

>The fierce competition Wallace was up against was a Celtic side in decline,
>hardly fierce competition, he didn't need a budget. As for Souness in Europe,
>he underestimated the likes of Red Star Belgrade, Bayern Munich, Steau Buchares
t
>etc. I didn't think much of his tactics in Europe, but be fair, Rangers were
>paired against hefty opposition.

Sound like excuses to me.
Does this mean Rangers can be considered as non-hefty opposition?
To win european competitions you have to beat teams like this.
Even Manchester United managed to beat Barcelona.

>>>But In England most of these players would just be considered
>>> Average,apart from maybe Trevor Steven('s?).Dean Suanders has got to

>>I am no fan of Souness, save for the fact that he and Glasgow Rangers gave
>>Scottish football a much needed boot up the arse, but I must point out that
>>these players (bought by Souness) considered "average" have often played for
>>the English National Side which by warped implication is average.  Chris Woods
,


>>Terry Butcher, Gary Stevens, Trevor Steven and Mark Walters (methinks!) to nam
e



>>but five.  Added to this two Ukrainians - Oleg Kusnetzov and Alexi
>>Michilochenko (spelling!) there are two more players who would easily fit in
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>above average in The English League.

>Absolutely, without the Souness revolution Scottish football would be even
>worse than it is (and that's still no worse than England!). He did buy a lot
>of crap players though (like Mark "lamp post" Falco). By the way isn't
>it Mikhailichenko?

Comparison of football leagues is a useless exercise. Comparison of Graham
Souness's record for Ranger's and Liverpool also appears to be a useless
exercise to me. He has almost completely different squads of players and
it's the players on the park who kick the ball not the manager. He 
obviously has some influence, but this isn't always enough. I don't really
believe the decline of Liverpool (FA cup win excepted, even Man Utd can win
that) can be put at Souness's feet. The club has struggled to keep the
spirit it had since Bob Paisley left, the defence looks awful without Alan
Hansen.

'nough said, Tom.