From: ceb@dbrus.unify.com (Caroline E. Bryan)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: damnation
Date: 16 Oct 92 07:42:36 GMT
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization

In article <Oct.13.01.21.37.1992.21932@geneva.rutgers.edu> REXLEX@linac.fnal.gov writes:
>In article <Oct.12.02.27.13.1992.19838@geneva.rutgers.edu> dxf12@po.cwru.edu
>(Douglas Fowler) writes:
>>      Though I am not Catholic, I am beginning to lean more and more to their
>> thinking on Purgatory - it sounds like this would be a good compromise for
>> such people, and the kind that a loving God would create.  The reason I
>> feel that such people would not necessarily be consigned to Hell is that
>> Jesus Himself went down to Hell, and preached there until the REsurrection.
>> This is something we lose track of, but He is everywhere, as He is God.
>> Therefore, I think it may be plausible that such people are given some
>> time in Purgatory as a chance to repent - one last chance to turn to
>> Jesus.  If this is the case, then Hell is only permanent for those who
>> have made the "decision for evil," and those who die without knowing the
>> Word, but who live just as good a lives as the best of Christians, will
>> suffer but will have a chance to be redeemed.
>
>*"it sounds like this would be a good compromise"
>
>That's just what it is.  The Scriptures *plainly* teach that it is appointed
>once for man to die and then comes judgement.  The doctrine of Purgatory is
>extra-Biblical.  

The Biblical bit that implies purgatory is in one of the books of Maccabees,
which most (all?) Protestant churches reject.  In it, one of the Maccabee
brothers commends praying for the dead.  Obviously, souls in heaven do not
need our prayers; and souls in hell are past praying for according to an OT
book that the Protestant churches accept (I forget which book it is).  If it
is commendable to pray for the dead, then there must be some souls who would
benefit (i.e., get to heaven) from these prayers.  Hence purgatory.

In the RC teachings, purgatory is not an opportunity for one last chance to
repent.   My priest says purgatory is more like a suburb of heaven:  everyone
in purgatory will definitely end up in heaven.  Having accepted our Lord, a
soul in purgatory goes through the painful but beneficial process of detach-
ing itself from all intellectual, psychological, and emotional attachments to
all things that would distract the soul from the perfect love of God and the
perfect acceptance of His love.  

The RC Church does not believe that God leaves people who have not heard the
Word in the lurch.  It recognizes something called "baptism by desire", that
is, what has happened to someone who lives a good Christian life even if s/he
has never heard of Jesus Christ OR if s/he has been taught false things about
Christianity and has consciously rejected them, and believes that s/he has
rejected real Christianity without actually knowing anything about it.  The
C.S. Lewis theory that the reality of God, Jesus, and Satan is revealed to a
person at the point of death is not a RC teaching, but is accepted by many
Catholics as being a sensible way of allowing a person who has been baptised
by desire to recognize and choose whether to accept the true Word before s/he
discovers the consequences of that choice.  Baptism by desire is not explicit
in the Bible, either, but is based on the RC belief that God loves us beyond
our understanding and that He will bend over backward to give us the chance
to accept His love.  (See how Moses managed to talk God out of destroying
some cities out of hand by suggesting that a few people in those cities might
still remember and love Him.)  The RC Church believes that God would rather
that we learn about Him beforehand, so that we can strive to learn to love
Him (with His help, of course!) and not have quite as much cleaning up to do
when we die and our souls go to purgatory.

There are Catholics who disapprove of the idea of baptism by desire because
it would allow the souls of people who were not practicing Catholics in life
to clutter up heaven.  But I think God is larger-minded than that; that He
can and does see into the hearts of His creatures and responds accordingly,
instead of according to who happened to born into which human era into which
family and learned which truths and which lies about which denomination of
Christianity.


Carrie		ceb@rechenau.unify.com	x6244
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