From: hem@col400.col400.att.com (Hillel E. Markowitz)
Subject: Re: Halacha
Originator: news@cbnewsf.cb.att.com
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:42:17 GMT

In article <765322d2332021t179@witsend.uucp> "D. C. Sessions" <dcs@witsend.tnet.com> writes:
>In <1992Dec3.051450.25260@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>, bfoo_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Brian E. Foont)  wrote:
># 
># In article <765313d7725276t173@witsend.uucp> dcs@witsend.tnet.com (D. C. Sessions) writes:
># >In <199211271434.AA15062@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>, kahl@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Murray Kahl)  wrote:
># ># 
># ># Gated by kahl for:
># ># From: Avrohom Keller
># ># The reason why we are forbidden to turn on electricity on Shabbos is 
># ># since thorough turning on electricity you are generating a new 
># ># power - and Shabbos we are forbidden to generate a new power. 
># ># Kol Tuv! 
># >#  -=Avrohom=- 
># >
># >  I'm still confused.  Nothing so far presented explains why I can
># >  flush the commode to remove the solid & liquid wastes, but not
># >  turn on the (solid-state brushless) fan to remove the gaseous
># >  ones.  Both do work by gating externally-supplied power
># >  distributed by common utilities; both are ultimately provided
># >  by generators etc.  Please explain.
># >
># As I understand the issue the reason the the use of electricity is
># prohibited is that in completing the circuit you are "building."  Which
># violates on of the malachim.  I am sorry that I cannot cite a source for
># this, but I am sure I have seen it before here.
>
>  Still as confused as ever.  A transistor switch doesn't "build"
>  anything except in extremely idiomatic engineerese; all that
>  happens is that the movement of carriers in one path influences
>  the migration of carriers in another.  Flushing the commode, on
>  the other hand, actually opens and closes paths for water to
>  flow, which is far more a matter of "building" a circuit than
>  anything a solid-state device ever did.  If this is the reason,
>  we should go back to outhouses, or at least use chamberpots on
>  Yom Tov.  (Hey! This is a VERY old minhag!  What happened to it?)
>
>  (History question: was there any resistance to the use of indoor
>  plumbing on Shabbat when it was first introduced?)
>
>--- D. C. Sessions                            Speaking for myself ---
>--- Note new network address:                dcs@witsend.tnet.com ---
>--- Author (and everything else!) of TMail  (DOS mail/news shell) ---


I started to look up a little bit of this and found that the
concept of electricity is MUCH more complex than the original
statements.  There have been volumes written on the subject.  The
Encyclopedia Talmudis devotes a great deal of space to the
subject.  The Chazon Ish is the one who brought up the idea of
"boneh" and many people are not sure what he meant.

The Institute for Halacha and Science (exact name) has done a
great deal of research into the matter and have issued a number
of papers discussing exactly what is or is not forbidden.  I
would say that your hypothetical solid state device may or may
not be forbidden depending on what the end product is.  For
example,the burglar alarm mentioned in an earlier post with
certain switches or settings allowed and others not.

As an example of the complexity of the matter, consider several
different uses of electricity.

1.  An incandescent bulb

2. A fluorescent bulb

3. Cooking on a hot plate

4. Cooking in a microwave.

I would say that at first glance 1 and 3 would probably be
considered cases of "fire" in that in each case a material is
being heated in order to give off light or perform the action.

2 and 4 would probably not be considered as "fire" in the same
sense.  However, the rabbis have already discussed cases similar
to these.  In the case of the microwave, it may be considered
like the case of the hot springs of tveryah (Tiberias) or cooking
in the direct rays of the sun which are discussed in the Gemorra.

In the case of the fluorescent, it may be something known as
"moled aish" which may be a "derivation" of the laws of "fire"
since it is causing something to give off light.  Note that this
MAY be part of the halacha miderabbonon (a declaration by the
rabbis) rather than a law directly from the Torah.

Also note that there is a concept of "zilzul shabbos" performing
an action which while technically permitted (originally) became
forbidden by the rabbis because it is not "proper" to perform on
shabbos.  Again the specific action involved is what is crucial
to determining the status of the action.

____________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz    |     Im ain ani li mi li    |
| H_Markowitz@att.com | Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha |
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