X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Approved-By:  Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.l-hcap
Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 16:30:04 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2931

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2931

                         Friday, September 04, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******


                              "loud" and clear
                               On signing....
                             Re: Transportation
                     Guide/Helper dogs at risk in Miami?
                     Re: carpal tunnel syndrome material
      Re: Is education preparing Special Needs Students for the Future?
                      Re: Airline Wheelchair Practices
                   Use of advanced tech and sign language
                   Re: Prosthetic & Limb Deficient Support


                                ******


To subscribe to the Handicap Digest mailing list or have your
thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to
Bill McGarry at any of the following addresses:


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	    (300/1200/2400 baud, 24 hours)
Compuserve: 73170,1064

                              Bill McGarry (Moderator)
                              (203) 337-1518



------



Subject: "loud" and clear
From: Hugues.Blanchet@p0.f136.n167.z1.fidonet.org (Hugues Blanchet)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:167/136.0 - Ab.'s Place, Montreal PQ


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

 -=> Quoting Mary Thomas to Hugues Blanchet <=-

 MT> Hi Hugues - good to hear from you - and I figured you were from
 MT> Canada that is where the Braves played the baseball games - watched
 MT> some of them on the T.V. -- about me - well I started going deaf when
 MT> about 6 yrs old - but no one paid much attention until i got into 3rd

Hi Mary,

You lived it all!  You were a hearing person when you
were younger, lost it a little bit at a time until it went completely.
and now you are again a hearing person (with your implant).  Do you
remember the sounds you heard when you were six years old?  If so,
there surely must be a very big difference with what you are presently
hearing isn't there?

 MT> for the cochlear implant - after 6 mos of testing - I had the surg in
 MT> Oct and got hooked up in Nov  --- 6 years ago - and it was the best
 MT> thing that happened -- so with what I hear and my lip reading abilities

Just finished a speachreading session with a speachteacher and when we
compared both evaluations (at the beginning and the end of the session),
we noted that I did indeed improove even if she told me beforehand
that I was already quite proficient.  I'm still glad I took those
courses.

It'll probably continue later this autumn with group reunions (where
everybody is yelling at each other...:-) ) There are rules too.  You
can yell as much as you want, but you aren't aloud to throw anything
to anybody. <GRIN>

 MT> - I do fairly well ----   my sister has the same type deafness but she
 MT> can still wear hearing aids (2) behind her ears --- Come Sept 9 I will
 MT> be 61 years old - have three boys -- one 37  27 and 25 --- and two dogs
 MT> Trudy and Honey --- I work for the State of Georgia as a Secretary

Well, your oldest son is a tiny bit older than me Mary.  I'm 35.  My
mon is 70 (last July) and my dad is 66.  Are some of your sons still
living with you?  What breed are your dogs?  I love dogs but even more
beautiful cats (like persians with green eyes!!!)

 MT> typist senior and have 3 under me but one is in training -  a very
 MT> interesting position at that but a hectic one -- but i do enjoy it -
 MT> may hang it up next year (G) -----  So give Karen a big hello from me
 MT> and I hope to hear from you again --- so take care  --- Do you wear a
 MT> hearing aid now or can you still hear just a wee bit???  Once I take
 MT> the processor off i dont hear a thing -  oh well - nice and quiet and
 MT> peaceful  (G)  --- So will

Not to worry about Karen dearest.  She will probably see this post
(Hiya Karen! <G>).  No Mary, I don't wear hearing aids because they
wouldn't be any use whatsoever to me.  I lost my hearing COMPLETELY
and TOTALY in March 1979 (incidentally, Karen lost a lot of her hearing
at the same time).

So, I lost it at 22 years old... and it was terribly hard.  It's
terrible when you loose it in your young years of adulthood...

I can only feel vibrations (like every normal human being I guess) but
no sounds at all.  My lost is a 120 Db lost (the lowest in the chart).
An audiologist told me once that they consider a person with a 90 db
lost as a deaf person.

I also know that some "Deaf" people are less deaf than some
"deaf" people.  Only a carrot can be deafer than I am...<GGGGG>

Take care Mary and hope to read you soon!

Amicalement,

Hugues

... Blue Wave! Not just for FIDONet anymore!
--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!167!136.0!Hugues.Blanchet
Internet: Hugues.Blanchet@p0.f136.n167.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: On signing....
From: Patricia.Bregman@f24.n3602.z1.fidonet.org (Patricia Bregman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3602/24 - ADAnet One (tm) Net, Pinson AL


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

CP>odd that you believe american deaf cannot do the same...

        Even closer to home, in Canada there are 2 official languages
        which means that all senior government officials and businesses
        must be able to fluently converse in two languages.

        We do have a slightly different problem in Toronto though, alot
        of immigrants who have not yet learned English and have
        difficulty understanding ASL.  Many are senior citizens and find
        it really difficult to switch.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Disabled? No, I prefer "Necessarily Cybernetic". *
===
 * QNet3 * ADAnet: Ability OnLine - Toronto Canada - 416/650-5411

 # Origin: ADAnet(tm) NetHub Birmingham, Alabama (205)854-9074  (94:94/1)
--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!3602!24!Patricia.Bregman
Internet: Patricia.Bregman@f24.n3602.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: Transportation
From: keith@atott2.irap.nrc.ca (Keith Bourns)

In article <24244@handicap.news>, Tony.Albritton@f3.n157.z1.fidonet.org
(Tony Albritton) writes:
> Index Number: 24244
>
> I'm looking into purchasing a van and there are somethings I want
> advice on. I need to know which would be better, lowering the floor
> or putting on a higher roof. Which van would be best a Chevy or a
> Ford. And where would the lift on the van best work on the side or
> in the back.
>

In looking for a minivan for my son's chair, they claim a VW Eurovan is
ok as is.  It was the only minivan I saw at a show that would take his
chair without customization. (A tilt Quickie with a insert and headrest)
The floor drops behind the driver's seat. As minivans go they are expensive
but should not need any lowering of the floor or raising of the roof.

Reliability may be a problem? I still have not bought anything yet.

Keith Bourns
Internet: BOURNS@A1.ATOTT2.NRC.CA




------



Subject: Guide/Helper dogs at risk in Miami?
From: 34AEJ7D@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Bill Gorman)

This message is being forwarded from another net due to the timely nature
of the information and reports that ill-conceived "security" measures
in the hurricane damage area are preventing needed veterinary supplies,
including food, from reaching Guide/Helper dogs, thus putting their
owners at risk. This would seem a clear violation of the ADA. I have
made the possible ADA violation known to some organizations involved,
and without exception the response was something to the effect that they
were unaware of the ADA legislation. Spread the word. Quickly.


Sez me,

W. K. (Bill) Gorman
|----------------------------Original message----------------------------
|From:   IN%"VETMED-L@UGA.BITNET"  "Veterinary Medicine" 31-AUG-1992 11:21:05.12
|To:     IN%"CC007002@WVNVMS.WVNET.EDU"  "Denise Gwinn"
|CC:
|Subj:   Florida relief - Forwarded from AOL's VIN
|
|Date: 31 Aug 1992 11:17:40 -0400 (EDT)
|From: Doug Kemp <VETPHARM@UGA.BITNET>
|Subject: Florida relief - Forwarded from AOL's VIN
|Sender: Veterinary Medicine <VETMED-L@UGA.BITNET>
|
|The following was taken from a message posted on America Online's Veterinary
|Information Network (VIN).
|========================================================================
|A note from Dr. John Albers, Exec. Director of AAHA:
|
|Date:  92-08-30 17:10:54 EDT
|Frm:   JohnAAHA@AOL.COM
|Subj:  Florida Relief Help
|T:     PDP1@AOL.COM
|cc:    DuncanF@AOL.COM
|
|Posted on: America Online
|
|Paul and Duncan:
|
|I could use some help getting this message to all VINnERS:
|
|The AAHA has spent much of this weekend trying to assess the situation
|in South Florida.  By all accounts, this is a massive problem.  We have
|information about at least twelve veterinarians whose practices have
|been destroyed or badly damaged and/or looted, and whose homes may also
|be gone.
|
|Some of our colleagues are trying desperately to care for injured
|animals, as well as to provide for the animals that were in their
|hospitals at the time of the storm.  In most cases, they can not
|contact owners to come to get their pets, because the owners have
|been evacuated themselves, or have no homes or places to take the
|pets.  As an indication of how bad things are, we understand that
|there is a need for euthanasia solution and body bags.
|
|In talking with Miami area veterinarians, local VMA officers, and
|officials of the American Humane Association, there is a problem
|getting supplies into the area, due to security problems.  Miami
|area veterinarians and technicians have been getting through in
|some numbers to lend a physical hand.
|
|The AAHA has also been told that there is a need for an organized
|fund drive for the relief effort, and that an organization that
|could collect, acknowledge, and distribute funds was needed.
|Our Executive Committee and many AAHA committees were meeting
|in Denver this weekend.  AAHA has agreed to spearhead the financial
|relief effort.
|
|We will contact over 10,000 AAHA member veterinarians by mail this
|week.  TAX DEDUCTIBLE donations will be collected by the AAHA
|FOUNDATION.  100% of the funds collected will be distributed to
|provide humanitarian aid for animals and our colleagues in South
|Florida.  The Foundation will evaluate and prioritize the needs
|and distribute funds accordingly.  We will help however we can.
|
|We will also notify the AVMA and all state VMAs in an effort to
|coordinate this fund drive.
|
|The AAHA has committed roughly $7,000 for organization, postage,
|mailing, and the like.  Our staff resources will be mobilized to
|support the efforts.
|
|Most significantly, AAHA's volunteer leaders and staff made
|personal contributions this weekend with the result that the
|relief fund ALREADY TOTALS $15,450!!
|
|We would appreciate whatever help we can get from VINERS and
|their staffs and neighboring colleagues.  Donations can be
|sent directly to:
|
|AAHA FOUNDATION, P.O. Box 150899, Denver, CO 80215
|
|Please mark the checks "Florida Relief"
|
|Alternatively, veterinarians may call the AAHA Member Service
|Center anytime beginning AFTER 12 noon (EDT) on Monday,
|August 31, at 800/252-2242.  We will accept pledges (and
|will invoice those making a pledge) or credit card contributions.
|
|Please help get this message to all VINners; I am sorry I do not
|know the best way to reach everyone.
|
|Thanks for your help.
|
|John W. Albers, DVM
|Executive Director
|AAHA
|
|P.S. Please call me (800/252-2242) or e-mail me (JohnAAHA@AOL.COM)
|if you have questions.




------



Subject: Re: carpal tunnel syndrome material
From: dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil (Jude DaShiell)

Since this is a preventable disability if handled correctly I've been
gathering messages from other lists on it and will share them
with all of you now:

First, let me give the advice carpal lists emphatically give: if your
arms, hands, wrists, or shoulders hurt, see a doctor NOW! How soon you
get help can be the difference between months of pain, incomplete
recovery, the necessity of finding work that doesn't require much hand
movement, etc., on the one hand, and good recovery without surgery and
being able to continue in the work for which you have training and
experience. I got physical therapy right away, and I can type 2 or 3
hours a day now after a few weeks of lighter duty.
There are GIF files, viewable on a graphical workstation (like a Sun) of
several alternative keyboards. The one that looks most useful to me will
start shipping in October; I've got an order in. It's just like a
standard 101 key keyboard, except it's been cut into three pieces: a
zig-zag line with lefthand keys in one piece, right hand keys in another
piece, and the two key pads on the right in a third piece. You can
positoin and lock in place each piece as you find most comfortable.
Ergonomic studies find that many people are more comfortable if they can
type with their wrists half way up to vertical, instead of parallel to
the table. We had a head crash and I lost my copy of the general info
from these groups. Someone from Sorehand (address below) will, I think,
send you a big general info file. It may come only in his monthly mass
mailing.
Take breaks from your typing: 10 minutes out of each hour if you have no
symptoms, more often if you have symptoms. If you have a variety of work
duties, do some of your typing in the morning, some in the afternoon. Do
exercises: stretch your arms out straight, raise and lower your hands
several times. Rotate your hands ten times (making circles in the air
with your fingertips.  Make tight fists, hold for one second,
then stretch your fingers out wide and hold for five seconds. Repeat
several times.
This is well-recognized as work-related injury, so all medical expenses
and special equipment should be covered. Point out to your boss that a
decent chair, work-table, wrist rest, and such, are far cheaper than
your surgery and months of lost time.
The keyboard I mentioned above is the Comfort Keyboard, from the Helath
Care Keyboard Co., N82 W15340 Appleton Ave, Suite L, Menomonee Falls, WI
53051 (414) 253-4131, Fax 414 253-4177. This doesn't constitute a
recomendation by the US govmt (for which I work) or any of its
components. The keyboard is $590, they will be shipping a PC version and
a Mac version. They have a professional-looking description independent
research done into its effectiveness, that you can show your boss.    If
you're on a mainframe, you can get a board and software to connect to
the mainframe from a PC, nearly as fast as the straight co-ax
connection.
Now I've used up my morning quota of typing time. Write me if you have
more questions.

              Tendonitis etc.." <SOREHAND@UCSFVM.BITNET>
is one list; it isn't on the bitnet list of lists. Here's the official
description of another list.

C+Health on LISTSERV@IUBVM                  Computing and Health
            or LISTSERV@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU
	[Last Updated 12-October-1991]

   C+Health is intended to promote sharing of information, experiences,
   concerns, and advice about computers and health.  Anecdotal evidence,
   media reports, and some formal studies suggest that computer users
   are at risk from misuse and overuse of computers.  Eyestrain,
   headache, carpal tunnel syndrome, and other apparently
   computer-related maladies are increasing.  And, it would appear that
   colleges, universities, and other institutions have been slow to
   respond with education, training, office and lab design, furniture
   purchasing, and other programs that could make computing more
   healthful -- and productive.

   We welcome questions and answers;  article and book reviews;
   hardware, software, and furniture evaluations;  approaches to
   influencing institutional policy;  speculation;  and humor.  Medical,
   legal, technical, financial, aesthetic, and administrative viewpoints
   are encouraged.  We hope that this forum will be of interest to end
   users, computing managers, epidemiologists, and policymakers.

   Subscribers to this list may also wish to participate in EDUCOM's
   Project EASI: Equal Access to Software for Instruction, "dedicated to
   assisting higher education in developing computer support services
   for people with disabilities." EASI provides information and guidance
   on campus applications of adaptive computer technology.  For
   information on EASI, contact Carmela Castorina,
   CSMICLC@UCLAMVS.BITNET.

   In general, C+Health will focus on individual and institutional
   measures for "keeping healthy people healthy" as well as remedies for
   restoring temporarily disabled people to health.  We suggest that
   computing issues related to those with permanent disabilities be
   referred to our dedicated colleagues at EASI.  Although this
   distinction will not always be "easy," one goal of C+Health is to
   minimize the number of casualties in our increasingly
   computer-intensive campuses, offices, and homes.

   This list will not be moderated, at least initially, so we encourage
   contributors to be succinct, to include relevant parts of messages to
   which they are responding, and to append their names, titles, and
   institutions to contributions.  New users are welcome to send to the
   list a brief statement of their experiences and interests in this
   topic.  Unless stated otherwise, it will be assumed that
   contributions represent individual opinion rather than institutional
   policy.

   To subscribe to C+Health send mail with the following command to
   LISTSERV@IUBVM (from BITNET sites) or LISTSERV@IUBVM.UCS.INDIANA.EDU
   (from Internet sites).

            Subscribe C+Health Full Name Institution

   As list owners, we look forward to your contributions to C+Health:

      Judy Smith, Data Analyst, Office of Data Administration and
      Information Resource Planning, University of Pennsylvania;
      SmithJ@a1.relay.upenn.edu.

      Kimberly Updegrove, Lecturer, School of Nursing, University of
      Pennsylvania;  kimu@dairp.upenn.edu.

I just purchased and installed a keyboard "wrist rest" and elevator from
the Self Care catalog (1-800-345-3371).  It provides adjustable support
for your wrists and a platform enabling you to tilt your keyboard.  I've
had it for 3 days and it helps.
 -- Elizabeth (eroderic@leo.vsla.edu)  (804) 786-2975 W

You can send directly to

 Dan Wallach <dwallach@nas.nasa.gov>

to get about 700 lines of info and sources of more info: 8 or 10
keyboard companies, etc. Ask for his FAQ files.
There is a company in Chicago--The BackCare Corp, (312)-258-0888--that sells
a device (not a keyboard) that supports wrists (and arms) while allowing
movement in a flat plane.  They cost about $150 U.S. each and have helped me
a great deal.  The supports can be mounted on edge of your desk or on the arms
of your chair.  The company also sells several lines of chairs that are
ergonomically adjustable to prevent other computer-related work problems.
(No, I do not get a commission from them--I'm just a customer, not the
president.)

>From: Rusty Perrin
>I'm sure I have seen a list dedicated to carpal tunnel syndrome, but I could
>not find it scanning through. Perhaps someone else can help you find it. Is
>your keyboard on a low table? Your hands should be about even with your
>elbows, and letting your wrists rest on the table in front of the keyboard is
>also good. Normal desk height is too high. There are also pads similar to
>mouse pads that are about 2 inches deep and as wide as your keyboard, that can
>sit in front of the keyboard to make resting your wrists there more
>comfortable.

The device you are talking about is a wrist rest they are avaliable from
Curtis product # CUR WR-1 list for around $15.  Mail order catalog cheeper.
There are other brands but this is one we use.  Seems to help.


One man's solution is to fold a hand towel to a thickness that matches the
keyboard's, and use that as a wrist rest.   It can be refolded as its
surface gets grimy, and is righthandy when the coffee spills......




------



Subject: Re: Is education preparing Special Needs Students for the Future?
From: nff2355@dsacg2.dsac.dla.mil (Dale Pennington)
Organization: Defense Logistics Agency Systems Automation Center, Columbus


From article <24120@handicap.news>, by BRICKEYJ@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU (Jean Brickey):
> Index Number: 24120
>
Hi Jean,

To answer what I understand to be the basic question, NO the
Virginia school should not be closed.

Since I read your article, had a cigarette and a cup of coffee I
have probably had enough thoughts on this matter to fill at least
twenty pages.  But I'll try not to do that.  The main issue in all
of this is money.  If the public school systems didn't get a blanket
amount from state and federal governments they wouldn't be nearly so
interested in taking on the disabled students.  The term "least
restrictive" is purely a matter of interpretation.  It might refer
to the travel distance, the educational opportunities, social
acceptance and a hole host of other things.

Having been a residential student of the Ohio State School for the
Blind for 13 years, I know the schools can be capable of preparing
students for a "normal" active life.  The problem now seems to be
that since mainstreaming has been legislated the residential schools
have turned to recruiting the multi-handicapped.  This has the
resultant effect of them lowering their standards and expectations.
So, when you think of it that way, maybe we can't go back, but I
sure wish we could.  Most of the public schools, especially the
rural and small town districts, just do what they have to do to keep
the bucks coming.  The students suffer as a result.

Well, I think you see where I'm going, so I'll get out and let
someone else blow off steam for a while.

Dale Pennington
Internet:  dpennington@dsac.dla.mil




------



Subject: Re: Airline Wheelchair Practices
From: dlc@ais.org (David Claytor)
Organization: UMCC

In article <24298@handicap.news> knyal@ils.nwu.edu (Jarrett Knyal) writes:
>Index Number: 24298
>
>In article <24260@handicap.news> dlc@ais.org (David Claytor) writes:
>>Index Number: 24260
>>
>>In article <24240@handicap.news> Joe.Chamberlain@p1.f175.n150.z1.fidonet.org
>>writes:
>>>Index Number: 24240
>>>
>>> DC> Any advice/warning/recommendations would be greatly appreciated!
>>> DC> The flight is on United: Detroit<-->Denver.  My experience with
>>> DC> United and my old E&J was terrific and worry-free, but I'm worried
>>> DC> about my Quickie.
>
>Acouple of years ago I flew to Hawaii on American.  I flew in first class so
>transferring to the seat wasn't that big of a deal.  The flight there was
>pretty eneventful but on the way home to Chicago, they lost my wheelchair!
>
>     I'm sitting there waiting in that crappy chair they put you in to get you
>off the plane because the aisles aren't wide enough for a wheelchair, when
>someone comes up to me and says, "Your wheelchair went to Atlanta."  They
>didn't even apologize.  When I asked them if I could take home an airport
>chair, they said no.  I could have made a bigger stink about it I guess but
>that was just the last thing that happened on a whole vacation of bad things.
>Moral of the story: Drive instead.
>>>


Jesus! Your rights were certainly violated, and you ought to have been
advised to sue.  I'm curious -- what DID you do and how did you get home?

You know, now that I think of it, I had a little trouble at
United's O'Hare terminal, too.  I had a short layover because of a
change of planes, so my chair was just transferred from one plane
to the other.  I, in the meantime, got off the plane in an aisle
chair and transferred to a "terminal" chair to wait around for
re-boarding.  Problem is, the terminal's chair had four tiny
wheels, so I couldn't roll myself around -- not even to the
bathroom!  (I had to tip an escort to push me to and fro.)  The
stinger, now that my memory clears, is that the reason I was told
for the screwy wheelchair was because it prevented chair users from
going out into the busy main corridors (where, presumably, we'd get
in the way.)  Damn!   Had I had my wits about me that day (instead
of being in a hurry), I'd have raised hell!

__Dave





------



Subject: Use of advanced tech and sign language
From: zakon@mitre.org (Robert Zakon)
Organization: Mitre


I was going through some uses of advanced technologies in natural
language processing when I became troubled by the idea of those who
could not speak.

My next thought was in regards to how they communicate and sign
language came to mind.  Now, wouldn't it be interesting to have the
computer recognize sign language.  Some research has been done in
gesture analyzers via camera input, but instead, let's take a
slightly easier technology to access: power gloves.  These gloves
which are generally used in virtual reality, could possibly be used
for identifying sign language symbols (hand motions).

Any thoughts on this, such as shortcomings or research that may
already be out there?

The above has been some rantings from about 5 minutes of thought.
As such, any comments would be appreciated.  As I do not frequently
read these groups, to contact me, e-mail directly to
rzakon@mitre.org or hobbes@Hobbes.cwru.edu

- Robert H Zakon




------



Subject: Re: Prosthetic & Limb Deficient Support
From: 34AEJ7D@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu (Bill Gorman)

On 9/03/92 Wayne Briggs <Wayne.Briggs@p0.f5109.n124.z1.fidonet.org> said:
>[This is from the Amputee Conference]
>
>Some possible contacts for you are PALS, Prosthetic & Limb Deficient Support,
>2222 Welborn,  Dallas, Tx  75219. 214/559-7430.  Current President  is Brenda
>Staples  ,1003  Stell  Ave.,  Mansfield,  Tx  76063,  817/477-2968.  This  is
>primarily for kids,  teens, college age & parents. A  Scotish Rite or Masonic
>Hospital  O.T.  &  Scia  Work  Dept. might  be  another  source.  PLEASE  TRY
>PARACHUTING; BUT NOT  HORSES! Another gal who also was  born without arms and
>was  very active  made  a fatal  mistake  in trying  the  dangerous sport  of
>horseback ridding and was accidently killed. PALS does have a video about her
>that you proably could borrow.
>...

Now hold on  there a sec, Wayne.  I think you're giving somebody  a bum steer.
Sure, accidents can happen anywhere, but consider:

First, horseback  riding is one of  the least dangerous sports  available. You
might care to  check the fatalities/100 participants  statistics available for
these, and many other sports from places like the National Safety Council.

Second, horseback riding  does NOT depend on  the use of ones  limbs nearly as
much as balance.

Third, horseback  riding for  the disABLED, known  as "Therapeutic  Riding" or
"Therapeutic Horsemanship" is  a nationally recognized form  of recreation for
the disABLED. As  such there are classes with certified  instructors and quiet
horses  available in  communities  all  across the  country,  even those  with
populations as small as 10,000 - 20,000.

Having  had some  personal experience  with the  business end  of a  parachute
myself,  I can  tell you  that  there are  a  lot more  "bounced" students  in
skydiving  than  in   horseback  riding.  From  my   experience,  more  FBNOs,
(Fly-By-Night-Operations), too.

If someone  really wants accurate information  in this area, I  suggest asking
the people on the EQUINE-L list <EQUINE-L@PCCVM.BITNET>.


W. K. (Bill) Gorman




------






                                ******

                  End of Issue # 2931 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU