HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: timothy@lad.med.utas.edu.au (Timothy John Gale)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Formula for speed ?
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:27:45 GMT
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.

peder@tamarack.cray.com (Peder Sterling) writes:


>I have a 15' aluminum runabout with a 35 hp outboard which probably doesn't
>weigh anymore than 600 pounds unloaded (a conservative "guess").  The boat
>will do about 20 mph with one person, 18 mph with two people, 14 mph with 
>four people.  I like to use the boat for pulling a tube, but find that the 
>slow speed just isn't that "exciting" after a while.

>So, I have been thinking of upgrading the motor to somewhere between a 50 hp
>and 70 hp (max limit for the transom).  Now I know that a 70 hp isn't going
>to make the boat go twice as fast, in fact I would estimate the top speed with
>a single person to be ~28 - 32 mph (based on a gut feeling).  Does anyone know
>of a formula based on the length + weight + # hp of a boat which could be used
>to calculate top speed, without considering prop diameter and pitch ?

I do not know of such a formula, but there are general principles that
will give us an approximate answer to your problem.  The general principle
is that your top speed is reached when all of the power from your engine
is used up in "losses" due to things like windage, wake generation, and 
tube-pulling.  Your top speed is proportional to the square root of the power,
and consequently,we could write a formula like this:

                               __________
           new speed          / new power
           ---------   =     /  ---------
           old speed       \/   old power

Therefore, a 70 hp engine will push the boat and one person along at about
20 * sqrt(70/35) = 28.3 mph!  This is about the same as your gut feeling,
so I think you are probably right!
                                                        
Tim Gale                          ________________ (:-)  \_____________
Department of Medicine           |                                    /
University of Tasmania           |__________________________________/
Australia
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com (Dillon Pyron)
Subject: Re: Mayday's and Channel 16 use (was Re: snow goose)
Reply-To: pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com
Organization: TI/DSEG VAX Support
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:32:51 GMT


In article <1992Aug19.165745.10475@ichips.intel.com>, jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece) writes:
>In article <Bt4A2C.FH0@kings.demon.co.uk>, lls@kings.demon.co.uk (Lady Lodge Systems) writes:
>
>> I thought that, in the UK, before one is allowed to use a marine VHF
>> radio (except in cases of emergency) you had to be licensed or be under
>> the direct supervision of someone who is.  Additionally, the vessel
>> itself must be registered and license paid before the VHF can be fitted.
>...
>> Of course this wouldn't help with the non-licensed boats but a quick
>> walk through the marinas looking for VHF masts and the lack of licenses
>> should bring a few offenders to light.  Hang them from the yard-arm and
>> others might think twice :-)
>
>In the US the VHF operator doesn't need a license, but the boat
>needs a station license.  It's around $35.

You are required to have a "Limited Radiotelephone Operator's Permit".  Fill
out the form and send it to the FCC.

>
>There was an interesting article about this in a San Francisco area
>sailing magazine.  Some fellow whose station license had expired
>a few months previously gave his boat name and call letters when 
>making a call.  FCC operators were monitoring the channel. They looked up
>his call letters and found that his license had expired.  The 
>fine: $8000!  
Unlicensed station or unlicensed operator, 10 years, $10,000 or both.  And I
know of someone who got it (unlicensed ham, trashed the air with an untuned
rig).

>
>Gotta reduce that federal budget deficit somehow.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>John Reece			"Oop. Ack. Pfffthpt"	
>Not an Intel spokesman 			- Bill the Cat 
>
--
Dillon Pyron                      | The opinions expressed are those of the
TI/DSEG Lewisville VAX Support    | sender unless otherwise stated.
(214)462-3556 (when I'm here)     |
(214)492-4656 (when I'm home)     |"Do something different, DISAPPEAR"
pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com          |  "DISAPPEAR"
                                     _A Day On Earth_
                                     Brave Combo

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: stefan@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Stefan Mochnacki)
Subject: Ship-to-Shore (Was: Request to start new newsgroup ...)
Organization: University of Toronto Physics/Astronomy/CITA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:58:12 GMT

Laughlin Hughes writes:

        By the way Mike, I also helm an online system in Toronto
> for sailors, "Ship to Shore" with about 500 aboard here.  Plus
> there are other Ship to Shore's now afloat in Chicago, Vancouver,
> etc.  About 1,000 aboard our little net so far, with additional
> nodes launching in the months ahead.  Obviously we're picking up
> this news group, (and a number of marine conferences from the
> other nets), but we also echo our own conferences among ourselves

   (other useful info deleted ...)

I wonder if the Toronto people could help me. I've tried several times
to log in to the Toronto Ship to Shore, but I get tremendous amounts of garbage
on the line quickly ruining my connection.

All I can think of is that my ancient USR 1200 baud modem doesn't
work well with the newer 2400 baud modems when they switch down to
1200 baud. I guess I have to buy a new modem ... a good idea perhaps,
but that Old Faithful connects to the University of Toronto lines
with no trouble at all. 

Is there much on the Toronto Ship to Shore which does not appear
in rec.boats (i.e. not echoed here?) ? In particular, I need info
on where to find stuff and on "street" prices, being sort of new to
sailing.

Since I don't know where Laughlin picks up this feed from, I
am sending this note NA-wide. (Apologies to our US friends ..)

				Stefan Mochnacki




-- 
Stefan W. Mochnacki          INTERNET - stefan@centaur.astro.utoronto.ca
Astronomy, U. of Toronto     UUCP - {uunet,pyramid}!utai!helios.physics!stefan
Ph. (416) 884-9562           BITNET - mochnacki@utorphys.bitnet 
FAX (416) 884-2672	     LOCATION - David Dunlap Observatory 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Subject: Re: Flares (was: Re: snow goose)
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 10:26:01 GMT

In article <1009@tekcae.cax.tek.com> paulh@tekcae.cax.tek.com (Paul Hammer) writes:
>>   For what it's worth, Olin recommends disposing of handheld flares more
>>than three years out of date by lighting them and immediately dropping 
>>them overboard. I don't remember anything about a pail of water. This may
>
>It seems odd that Olin would recommend littering the waterway
>with old toxic trash.

I agree to some degree. But since the flare, when it burns, leaves exactly
the same amount of ash in the air, which then settles into the water, the
point seems moot. The alternative is to arrange for some disposal on land;
if it doesn't involve burning the flare, the stuff that gets disposed of is
probably a good deal worse than the ash that would result from burning. 

Perhaps the fault lies with the consumer, for purchasing such toxic trash,
and thus giving the producer the incentive to generate more. :-)

-John
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: will@ogre.cica.indiana.edu (William Sadler)
Subject: Re: protest question (rule 32
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 13:50:02 GMT

In <guido.713824947@sparc-3> guido@blink.att.com (Guido Bertocci) writes:

>I think 32.1 was misapplied.  32.1 is intended for the reverse
>situation such as S hitting P.

Amen to that.

Here's another one that may be of interest:

Boat SW is above the starting line at a start where the one minute rule is
not in effect.  On starboard, she reaches down the line on the upwind
side about 1 minute before the start.  Then, she luffs and begins sailing
backwards toward all of the boats (also on starboard) parked on the line.
Before the starting signale she is on the proper side of the line, but
she forced several boats to move in order to give her room.

Is boat SW at fault?

Will
--
***************************************************************************
*   _______________\|/_      Will Sadler     will@cica.indiana.edu        * 
*   Laser 44888    /|\                       sadler@iubacs.bitnet         *     
***************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: ed@ada1.ssd.csd.harris.com (Ed Kelly)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: radio licenses
Date: 21 Aug 92 21:19:57 GMT
Organization: Harris CSD, Ft. Lauderdale, FL

In article <1992Aug21.200428.15043@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>Sandra Swanson writes:
>
>	According to the current (1992) issue of Chapman's, a "Restricted 
>	Radiotelephone Operators license" is not required for operating a
>	VHF on a VOLUNTARILY EQUIPPED pleasure vessel operating within the
>	territorial waters of the U.S.
>
>This is particularly important for us aliens (4' tall, funny green skin, &c.),
>since I believe the same conditions apply to obtaining this licence as apply
>to registring to vote. US national, over 18, not felons, &c. Not to say that
>we could not get some sort of International licence from out countries of
>origin, but it might be a pain.
>
>Francis Muir
>PEEP & FELIX THE CAT
>Port of Redwood City

 I inquired about the citizenship restriction on the Restricted Radiotelephone 
 Operators license when I was applying for a VHF license five years ago as I 
 was (still am) a resident alien and the license is required outside of US
 territorial waters (e.g Bahamas). The FCC told me to go ahead and apply as
 if I were a citizen and that it wouldn't be a problem.




-- 
Ed Kelly

email - ed@travis.ssd.csd.harris.com - Phone (305) 973-3540
===========================================================================
From: thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu (T. Scott Thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: protests or using the rules
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:05:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: kiyotaki.thompson.714344742
Reply-To: thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu
Organization: University of Minnesota

jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes) writes:

>My dream race is one in which all the boats sail on the same water at the same
>time, but pass smoothly through each other in the 4th dimension :-). Then the
>entire race is determined by how well you can sail your boat. Alas, no

You have got to be kidding.  This would turn sailboat racing into drag
racing.  You might as well take up powerboat racing.  The fact that
sailboat racing is a _tactical_ sport is one of the main attractions for
me.

I fully support the original statements about the 720 rule.  However,
the advantages of the 720 rule will only be manifest if it is used as
a supplement for the standard withdraw/protest procedure instead of as
a _replacement_ for it.  If you are going to use the 720 rule then it
is important that sailors are still given the opportunity to have
protests heard on shore if the alleged offender does not do a 720.
Unfortunately, it is sometimes the case that when the 720 rule is
used, no protest committee is made available.  I have seen this on
occasion in some college sailing clubs, for example.

--Scott
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras)
Subject: Re: Flares (was: Re: snow goose)
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:51:55 GMT

roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes:


.... del

>	What does one do with old, outdated, flares?  Is there a safe way
>to dispose of them?

Other than give them to the neighbors kids, I've no idea.  I've got a bunch of 
flares, some of which could have been Noah's.  On a hunch I called my town's fire
department.  They referred me to the state fire marshals office.  They said  something
to the effect of "Huh?  I dunno.  Maybe call back in the morning and ask for the explosives
man.".  I've got a feeling this will go nowhere.  Maybe the best thing is to 
dispose of them all next July 4th.  Sure beats having them in the attic or basement.

Any better ideas out there?

cheers,
gerard
From: hagens@news.ans.net (Robert Hagens)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Experience with Watkins '27
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:31:14 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Advanced Network & Services - Reston, VA


Anyone have any comments about a sailboat known as a Watkins. I am looking
at the 27 foot version. 

Thanks,

Rob Hagens
ANS
From: jhwelch@ecs.umass.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Flares (was: Re: snow goose)
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:11:21 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Aug12.162125.12849@phri.nyu.edu>, roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes:
> dudley@treefort.Corp.Sun.COM (Dudley Gaman) writes:
>> So that my son would know how to use the gun if there was ever a need, I
>> showed him the correct procedure as described in the manual.
> 
> 	The flare kit I have came with a special "practice" flare.  I think
> it's got the charge that makes the flare shoot out of the gun, but not the
> charge that makes the visible signal.
> 
> 	What does one do with old, outdated, flares?  Is there a safe way
> to dispose of them?
> 
When my flare kit expired I waited until July 4th and went down to the
beach with it.  My girlfriend, who was very timid about guns &etc, was
glad to have had a chance to practice during non-emergency conditions.

Jonathan Welch  VAX Systems Manager  Umass/Amherst  jhwelch@ecs.umass.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: billp@voyager.chm.clarkson.edu (Bill Plunkett)
Subject: radio licenses (was Re: snow goose)
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:55:38 GMT

From article <1992Aug20.153251.27144@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, by pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com (Dillon Pyron):
> 
> In article <1992Aug19.165745.10475@ichips.intel.com>, jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece) writes:
>>
>>In the US the VHF operator doesn't need a license, but the boat
>>needs a station license.  It's around $35.
> 
> You are required to have a "Limited Radiotelephone Operator's Permit".  Fill

Guess it's my day to be a compulsive nit-picker.  It's called a
"Restricted Radiotelephone Operators license" and is issued for free
and with no examination for just this purpose - incidental operation
of a licensed station (such as aircraft or boat).  It is not required
of anyone having higher privileges (1st, 2nd or 3rd class
radiotelephone license).  It never expires, BTW (whereas the higher
certificates do).  And, as Mr. Reece says, you also need a station
license for your vessel.

-billp

p.s.  We oughta try to remove "Snow Goose" from the headers of all
the unrelated out-of-gas posts.  It seems every one has forgotten
about her [Snow Goose].  Has she been heard from?
From: burzycki@zax.eda.teradyne.com (Mike Burzycki)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Another request for REC.BOATS.HOBIE
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:38:40 GMT
Organization: Teradyne, Inc. Boston MA
Originator: burzycki@zax

About a week or so ago, I asked for people's opinions on starting a new
newsgroup for Hobie cat sailors. I saw only a few posts replying to this
request. Some of these replies suggested leaving it in rec.boats and they were
against rec.boats.hobie. 

I guess I don't understand why people want to keep it in rec.boats. If you are 
interested in Hobie Cat sailing, just subscribe to rec.boats.hobie also. 
There just seems to be so much talk in rec.boats about the QE II grounding,
flares, Snowgoose, etc. that I have to weed through to get to information 
that I really want to read. Other groups get specialized and focus in a little 
more. Why can't rec.boats do the same?
-- 
Mike Burzycki                             burzycki@sky.dnet.teradyne.com
From: pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu (Greg Pavlov)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: QE II Grounding
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:56:37 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

In article <88.2249212540@kcbbs.gen.nz>, Liam_Early@kcbbs.gen.nz (Liam Early) writes:
> I'm a little puzzled about it all as well, as the News report claimed 
> the QE II hit a sandbank, then how come its got some nasty gashes and 
> needs to go to drydock, Steel on Steel perhaps?,  any news from the 
> navel divers sent to investigate the area?,  I can imagine why they 
> are being vague about the location, the treasure seekers minds must 
> be running riot <grin>.

  Instead of wondering about inconsistencies, lack of information, and
  possible duplicity, coverup, etc, the "real" story may be much simpler:
  this isn't something that happens very often, I doubt that most reporters
  know anything about "ocean liners" anymore, and no one really knows how
  to interpret the information coming out to relay it to us through the
  usual media sources (even tho they try, how often have they been accurate
  describing events that YOU had first-hand knowledge/experience with ?)


  greg pavlov
  pavlov@fstrf.org
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jadams@vixen.uucp (26070-adams)
Subject: Re: snow goose
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 13:58:45 GMT
Summary: Use calling frequencies

In article <1992Aug15.131710.5294@phri.nyu.edu>, roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes:
> fishman@tracker.rtp.dg.com (Mike Fishman) writes:
> >You are 2 miles offshore, no radio and you are out of gas.
> 
> >Or, alternatively.. exactly what is the proceedure for calling for help
> >(VHS or CB) when you are on the bay, w/o Loran, and out of gas. 
> 
> .....  Anyway, try calling a commercial marine tow service (SeaTow,
> for example) on VHF.  Presumably you've got some sort of local marine
> services directory on board that lists what channels the various tow
> services listen to.  If not, I would take a guess and try 09, 68, or 72.

The proper procedure to raise a commercial towing service is to use the calling
frequencies of VHF 16 or (recently FCC approved) 9 and ask for commercial 
assistance.  16 and 9 are designated as both the calling AND distress
frequencies.  9 times out of 10, you will get a response from one of these 
firms within 10 seconds asking you to "switch and answer on XX channel".
It is in their business interest to respond before their competition does.

Capt. Jack Adams		| Bellcore RRC 4B-259
(908) 699-3447 {Voice}		| (908) 336-2871 {Facsimile}
jadams@vixen.bellcore.com	| kahuna@attmail.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
	-- Those who fail to plan, plan to fail --
From: swist@doodly.mcc.dec.com (Jim Swist)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Bayliner Boats
Date: 18 Aug 92 13:03:51 GMT
Reply-To: swist@took.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

re: Chopper guns.

I have read that the use of chopped strand per-se is not bad and
that you can do either bad or good layup jobs using either hand
laying or chopper methods.

It is in fact no longer true that only low-end manufacturers,
such as Bayliner, use chopped strand.  It is a very common
technique used by a majority of fiberglass boat builders to
at least some extent.  There have been many technological improvements
in the process and its use doesn't necessarily have anything to
do with the strength, ride, or durability of a hull.

Also note that due to lack of truth-in-advertising laws in this area,
virtually all manufacturers advertise "hand laid fiberglass"  (including
Bayliner), regardless of whether hand-layup accounts for 1% or 100%
of the job.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Honda 5 or 8?
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 00:47:40 GMT

The story so far. I have just bought a Freedom 21. Although it comes
with an outboard, its 10 yrs old, and looks it. I had thought to see
if I could make it last until next season, but I have now decided to
splurge, and on Friday I ordered a 5hp Honda. PEEP, my 15 footer was
bought a 2hp Honda, and it turned out to be a great success, despite
some early misgivings about the sizae of the engine. PEEP displaced 
650lbs, and generally had to push a total of 1100lbs. FELIX, the F21,
displaces 1850lbs and will thus have to push about 2300lbs. With these
figures, a 5hp looks about right, since the 2hp would take PEEP to hull
speed on about half throttle. I had intended to go with the 8hp OHC
twin, but the 5hp OHV single is somewhat less expensive, and appeals to
my more simple instincts. I could change the order to an 8 Monday or
Tuesday. Anyone any thoughts? Oh yes. I will NOT go with a 2-stroke. 
If they were God's notion of a proper internal combustion engine, cars
would come with them. Mix oil in withe the gas? Give me a break...

Gybe ho!

Francis, the Old Salt, on FELIX.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: bartley@spss.com (Dennis Bartley)
Subject: Re: protest question, rule 32.1
Organization: SPSS Inc.
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 01:50:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.144233.24309@panix.com> spencer@panix.com (David Spencer) writes:
>guido@blink.att.com (Guido Bertocci) writes:
>
>
>It's just dumb to hit another boat if you can avoid it. No amount of
>ducking, luffing, tacking or pinching is ever going to slow you down
>as much as hitting another boat.
>
>At the '90 Sonar NA's, we were on starboard with many boats on both
>hips. It was just after the start, with a 50-boat fleet and 25 kts of
>wind. A port-tacker charged across our bow; we hailed like mad, but
>she kept coming. We had nowhere to go, so we T-boned her.
>
>When we got free of her, we were dead in the water.  We went from
>building speed at the head of the fleet to DFL in everybody's bad
>air.  We never dug out; that race ended up as our throwout.
>
>Even a rub is going to transfer momentum. Don't do it.
>
>

A while ago Will Sadler seemed to say that in Lasers, some contact is
unavoidable. If you were to protest every single bump, you'de
spend your whole life in a protest room. 

I race both dingies (a Penguin) and a slightly larger boat (J 30).
I'de agree with Will, at least in our club dingy races. There tends to
be a difference between minor contact and a major violation of the
rules. Is this true in other clubs racing small dingies?

With the bigger boat fleets I've raced with, any contact between
boats, no matter how minor, is avoidable. 

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: albert@beer.umeeng (heller)
Subject: Harken Hardware
Reply-To: albert@beer.umeeng
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:21:44 GMT

Does anyone know where I can purchase Harken Hardware in the San Jose or Santa Clara area.  I will be in the area towards the end of the month and would like to get some new blocks for my Lightning.

Also, where can I find West Systems Epoxy.  I seems like I have to do some fiberglas repair this fall

Thanks


Newsgroups: rec.boats