HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: paul@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Greg Paul)
Subject: Re: Angola's coach
Followup-To: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Reply-To: paul@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Greg Paul)
Organization: Arizona State University, College of Engineering
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 07:44:14 GMT

In article <55449@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith) writes:
>OK, I've seen enough people laughing at Angola's coach for saying the US
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>team plays no defense. Sure they got smoked, sure we held them under 50
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>but IMHO what he is saying is the same thing Chuck daly said during the 
>TOA. Daly said he was apalled at how easy it was for the other teams
>guards to penetrate into the lane. He said his guards were relying too
>much on the shotblockers inside and he would encourage them to move
>their feet and play a little better defense. From what I saw in the 
>Angola game, they were playing the same style, go for the steal, if
>you miss and the guy blows by, hope for the block or try to strip him
>from behind. This works fine against Angola, but who knows what could
>happen against Croatia or Lithuania, we could get some guys in foul
>trouble and get into a real scary game. I'm still expecting an easy
>cakewalk to the gold medal, but I don't think the Angolan coach made
>an unintelligent remark, or if it was stupid, then so was Dayly for 
>saying practically the same thing.
>

   The Angola coach made no mention of the Dream Team.  He said that
the NBA doesn't play defense.  While neither statement should be considered
accurate, there is a big difference.


--
========================== Will be President for food ==========================
Greg Paul  (Mouser)		  |  paul@enuxha.eas.asu.edu  GO SPARTANS!!
MSCS student, Insight technician  |     Triangle Fraternity
____________ "My words but a whisper, your deafness a shout..." -JT ____________
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor)
Subject: Re: Cut & Paste
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:42:07 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.144931.6476@ll.mit.edu> nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith) writes:
>   but it is your fault for making such a big stupid issue out of it.  
So? As long as nit-picking is our objective, that's good enough. Stupid
issue, I guess there is this guy who also accused me of cut-and-paste,
and this other guy who defend Meeks' admission (you know who you are).
If that's stupid, no problem, there are at least four stupid people.

>   its
>   like when we first were going through your stuff we were giving you the
>   benefit of the doubt - that you would be making a good argument.  as it
>   proceeded, we were taken away from the road of good argument into the
>   inescapable conclusion that "oh no - he really does want to make his
>   argument rest on this silly childish issue of technicality".
Because that's how it progressed after July 4. I made my last posts on
the issues on July 6. No more responses except yours and Jim Mann's on
the nit-picking (admission, cut-and-paste). Meeks was out of the country at 
that time. When he came back, the nit-picking was the major issue.

>now who is the blind bat here?  he is only talking about your beliefs here.
But he associated my belief to "calls the refs gave", he didn't associate my
beliefs to Bush's recent action on Saddam, to Fay Vincent's authorities, to 
the general trend of the stock market .....

>Dave's wording of the Premise held by Ed Lor - "the league is in the Celtics
>pocket and the refs give the Celtics all the calls"
Once again, you don't know what we are arging. Whether the league is in
the Celtics pocket and the refs give the Celts ALL the calls are NOT the
current issues.

>Dave's wording of the Sufficient Proof Ed needs for his premise - "Ed can
>name 2 incidents as calls he thinks are bogus."
>^^^^
>why dont you instead say "i never said the refs give the celts ALL the calls"?
>if you fail to say this, then can we presume that you do thinks its ALL?
You can. But that's not our argument since we switch to nit-picking mode. 
You still don't know the argument -- Meeks admitted that the 3-ptr as 
home jobs, bad call, and calls the refs give ....

>why dont you instead say "it wasnt 2, it was 7 and could be even more if we
>add in bogus fouls"?  if you fail to object to 2 here, can we assume that
>the other 5 are now no longer in your list, making your score 2-2?
Well, if you make that assumption, I presume that's your admission of the 
Bird 3-ptr as bogus, otherwise you would have said "what bogus 3-ptr? the
score is 2-0." Did you get permission from Meeks?

>seems like you missed out on an opportunity, Ed.  you're not even doing a
>good job of nitpicking apart dave's wordings, sifting through them to catch
>a stumble.
No, seems like you don't even know the arguments have been swifted for two
weeks..... 

-- 
                                          Edward Lor
                                          lor@cbnewsk.att.com
                                          
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Subject: Re: Game was CLOSE? (WAS: Re: Final Score: 102-70)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 15:01:19 GMT
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <VKV-z2#@engin.umich.edu> martyp@engin.umich.edu (Martin Pochmara) writes:
>
>>point gaurd - Kukoc
>>shooting gaurd - Petrovic
>>center - Vrankovic
>>forward - Divac
>>forward - Radja
>>
>>off the bench they would have Paspalj(Serbian), Komazec(Croatian),
>>Zdovc(Slovanian).
>>
>>Now I know this team would still get beat four out of five times by the DT,
>>but I still would have loved to see the game.
>>
>>Ivan (Croatia for the gold, hmmm excuse me, I mean silver)
>>
>Wrong! Come on! They would still get beat 5/5 times.....
>by the same margins of 30 - 40 points....
>
>The US was still playing with Croatia....
>
>			Marty

Yeah, really all this team adds is Divac at forward, who, while a good player,
is not going to make up a 33 pt deficit.

-- 
David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Thursday, 30 Jul 1992 19:26:13 CDT
From: <U32431@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: TONY, SCOTTY, TONY, SCOTTY

Does anyone have a clue about the Bulls' management interest in Tony K (the Mag
ic Johnson of Europe)?  Why did Bulls' management hold up Scotty's contract whi
le it tried to woo the mighty Tony K from some remote outpose in Italy?
Scotty DID hold Tony to four (4) points in Croatia's game with the US.  Scotty
was right - no matter how much Marv Albert tries to defend Toni K - Tonee K is
not ready for the NBA.  Take that Jerry Krause.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: dodd@OES.ORST.EDU (Stirling S. Dodd)
Subject: Re: JORDON OUT WITH BROKEN JAW!
Organization: Applied Research Laboratories, Austin, Texas
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 15:52:48 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.130032.27251@brtph560.bnr.ca> markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.214452.866@HQ.Ileaf.COM> raczka@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Christopher Raczka) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul22.182311.24180@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei) writes:
>>> This has been distressing for me too.  Just how many basketball fans
>>> that can't even spell Michael Jordan's name...
>>> In article <1992Jul22.161929.28599@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami) writes:
>>> Maybe if you really respected Jordan you'd learn how to spell his name.
>>> 
>>
>>    You both need to realize that people DO MAKE typing mistakes
>>
>>    And if you can't make any personal allowances for the typing
>>    mistakes of others, than I suggest that you look over your past
>>    postings to this group ...
>
>In defense of Gidi and Jerray, I believe the original poster had spelled
>Jordan's name wrong about 3 times, consistently.  And since the 'o' and
>the 'a' aren't really that close together, I'm going to fathom a guess that
>the original poster didn't know better.
>
>
>-- 
>|_ o_O              Andrew W. Markham (markham@bnr.ca)
>|W   |\               Bell Northern Research, Inc.              _        O
>|   / \                       Heels in 93!                     / |_      |\
>|        before...            Bulls in 93!           after... |   W  o  /|

First Point: 
Who really gives a F*** if someone can't spell, or doesn't have respect for
Jordan? I'm sure Michael could care less as long as the bank cashes the 
check <:{>

Second point: 
Did Jordan suffer an injury as the byline indicates? I can't imagine that I 
wouldn't have heard such a thing already, but who knows?

Final Point:

-- 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
S Dod^2  |   "Do what you do but know why you're doing it"---GBH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: billms@eecs.umich.edu (William Mangione-Smith)
Subject: Re: POGO-stick RETIRES (yes,aint kidding)
Organization: University of Michigan
	<1992Jul23.210755.14674@brtph560.bnr.ca>
	<BILLMS.92Jul23191204@z.eecs.umich.edu>
	<1992Jul24.140836.24191@brtph560.bnr.ca>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:34:52 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.140836.24191@brtph560.bnr.ca> markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:

   billms@eecs.umich.edu (William Mangione-Smith) writes:
   >markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:
   >>gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami) writes:
   >>>
   >>> Among the reasons they said he gave for wanting to retire were Chuck
   >>> Daly's departure and lack of new challenges.
   >>
   >> Maybe he could challenge himself to score on the offensive end without it 
   >> having to be a put-back from an offensive board... ;^)
   >
   > Maybe you could look up his 3pt shooting and explain your definition of a put
   > back.  Maybe you could inject a bit of reality into your rabid and inane
   > postings.  

   A little uptight aren't we Bill?  Didn't you see my smiley face, which,
   BY THE UNWRITTEN LAW OF R.S.BB.P, protects me from being flamed?
   Talk about rabid and inane.  You should try to get more fiber...


Nah, not uptight.  Just tired of your endless anti-Pistons tirades.  Sorry I
blew my top.  I should be good for tolerating your barrages for a few more
weeks now that I've got it out of my system.

The smiley doesn't cut it.  That makes it clear that you were not being
serious.  I knew that.  I knew that you are not an idiot.  I just thought
you were being a jerk.  :).  There.  Now you can't flame me.  The smiley
indicates sarcasm, that all.  No protection there, ya still gotta stand
behind what you type.

Bill
--
-------------------------------
	Bill Mangione-Smith
	billms@eecs.umich.edu
From: markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: TONY, SCOTTY, TONY, SCOTTY
Date: 31 Jul 92 14:49:06 GMT
Organization: Bell Northern Research Inc.

In article <92212.192613U32431@uicvm.uic.edu> <U32431@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>Does anyone have a clue about the Bulls' management interest in Tony K (the 
>Magic Johnson of Europe)?  

You call him 'the Magic Johnson of Europe' and then wonder why the Bulls 
management would have interest in him?  BTW, I think it's spelled Toni(not y).

>Why did Bulls' management hold up Scotty's contract while it tried to woo 
>the mighty Tony K from some remote outpose in Italy?

Because they already had Scottie on the team and not Kukoc.  If they could
convince Kukoc to sign, then they could work on Scottie's contract with
Kukoc's in mind.  If they had re-inked Pippen's contract from $700K to
$3M, it would have made it much more difficult to compete with the Italian
leagues.  By attempting to sign Kukoc first, the idea would likely have
been to backload Pippen's contract to make him happy.  Kukoc probably wouldn't
want a backloaded contract (given that Italy would pay him $3M up front).

>Scotty DID hold Tony to four (4) points in Croatia's game with the US.  Scotty
>was right - no matter how much Marv Albert tries to defend Toni K - Tonee K is
>not ready for the NBA.  Take that Jerry Krause.

Looks like you have only seen him play once.  Although I must admit he 
hasn't done much in the Olympics, he is regarded as being a very talented
player.  He says he isn't ready for the NBA, but I would argue that he's
as ready as any college player and since he's only 23(4?), he's closer to
a college player than an average NBA player (at least average in the sense
of those that stick around for a while).  SI wrote a pretty positive article
on him a month or two ago, and they generally have *some* idea of what
is going on in the sporting world.

Scottie did help hold Kukoc to 4 points, but remember Scottie has some 
pretty good backup help.  Switch Kukoc and Pippen and you probably wouldn't
have been whistling to another tune.  Don't get me wrong, I think Scottie
is the superior player, just that by judging Kukoc in a game against the
worlds greatest, you might be short-changing him a little.

-- 
|_ o_O              Andrew W. Markham (markham@bnr.ca)
|W   |\               Bell Northern Research, Inc.              _        O
|   / \                       Heels in 93!                     / |_      |\
|        before...            Bulls in 93!           after... |   W  o  /|
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: wardrb@cs.utexas.edu (Richard Byron Ward)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: USA v Angola
Date: 27 Jul 1992 07:49:57 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Jul27.062742.11859@u.washington.edu> echen@hardy.u.washington.edu (Ed Chen) writes:
|
|I have a question that some kind soul can probably answer....
|Charles Barkely (I think) both tried out for the 84 Olympics team &
|didn't make it (Jordan, and Ewing made it).
|
|So who were those that beat out CB & KM?  and where are they now?
|
|Better yet, a complete team roster of the 84 team would be great.

I remember a Sports Illustrated writer saying that if Bobby Knight didn't
take Barkley, he was going to root for the Russians.  Apparently, Barkley
got cut because Knight didn't like his defense.  The writers were having
a field day coining new nicknames for Barkely, my favorite was "the flying
milk truck".

Rick

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Subject: Re: Malone on Barkley
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:11:58 GMT

In article <BILLMS.92Jul28135229@z.eecs.umich.edu> billms@eecs.umich.edu (William Mangione-Smith) writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.171411.23075@ichips.intel.com> harryk@omews58.intel.com (Harry Koehnemann) writes:
>
>   In article <16832916A.EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu> EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu writes:
>   > 
>   >>Really, it's too bad it happens in basketball at all.  In no other sport
>   >>that I'm aware of do people get so violent about playing.  I've never had
>   > 
>   >Seen a baseball game lately? Ever see a hockey game?
>
>   NHL doesn't count - fighting's in the RULES, it's part of the game.  How
>
>So you didn't really mean what you said.  You meant what you meant.  Ok.
>Only count sports that Harry has seen, and rule out those that he has seen
>that legislate fighting.  Ok.  Now that makes sence.  We thought you meant
>"other sports that you were aware of", which is what you wrote. 
>
>   >>themselves too seriously?  I mean, that's all it was  - Charles was taking
>   >>that game (or his part in it) too seriously and not understanding the
>   >>importance of the entire scenerio, only his little part in it.  The same
>   > 
>   >Yeah just go and rationalize it becuz Charles is so f*ucking cute, right?
>   >He's not like one of those scummy Pistons thugs like Isiah, right?
>
>   Pistons!?!?  Who mentioned the Pistons?  Why are Detriot fans so damn
>   sensitive - *The world does not revolve around you*.
>
>The person you initially responded to mentioned the Pistons.  You even quoted
>that part, as did the post you are immediately responding to here.  Now its
>gone because you've decided to delete it.  Go back and check.
>
>Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean somebody isn't after you.  
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nirvana, right?

>Bill
>--
>-------------------------------
>	Bill Mangione-Smith
>	billms@eecs.umich.edu


Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami)
Subject: Average Centers
Organization: Brotherhood Of Breath
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:25:20 GMT


My take on "average centers" is that they are worse than average
players.  You see, only about half of the 27 NBA teams have a
reasonable starting center, with either a good present, past or
future.  The rest play bozos, stiffs and overgrown forwards.

So (and this is my theory) if you try to rank the 27 starting centers,
or center combinations, you run out of quality about halfway through.
Here's how I see it:

team		center(s)		grade/comments
----		---------		--------------
Atlanta		Rasmussen/Koncak	C  (Willis, a PF, was main man)
Boston		Parish			A
Charlotte	Gattison		C  (Larry Johnson helped a lot)
Chicago		Cartwright		B
Cleveland	Daugherty		A
Dallas		Davis			D  (what did he do?)
Denver		Mutombo			A- (a short way away from superstardom)
Detroit		Salley/Laimbeer		C+ (Salley not a C; Laimbeer old)
Golden State	Lister/Alexander	D  (Warriors play without a center)
Houston		Olajuwon		A+
Indiana		Smits/Dreiling		C-
LA Clippers	Polynice		D  (replaced by PF Smith?)
LA Lakers	Divac/Campbell		C
Miami		Seikaly			B  (solid second tier)
Milwaukee	Malone			B  (still a force, occasionally)
Minnesota	Spencer/Breuer/Longley	D-
New Jersey	Bowie/Dudley		C
New York	Ewing			A+
Orlando		Kite/Roberts/Catledge	D  (this will imrove...)
Philadelphia	Shackleford/Bol		D
Phoenix		Lang/West		B-
Portland	Duckworth		B
Sacramento	Causwell		C
San Antonio	Robinson		A+
Seattle		Benjamin		B-
Utah		Eaton			B- (can't give him less - an All-Star)
Washington	Ellison			B  (very good season)

This works out to: 6 A's, 8 B's, 7 C's, 6 D's.  If I'm somewhat close
to the truth, then the starting center of an "average" NBA team is
something along the lines of Andrew Lang/Sam Bowie/Bill Cartwright/
Vlade Divac.  That is, a guy with limited skills and inconsistent
performance.  Someone with a potential for playing very well in one
game, and disappearing in the next two or three.

I went through the trouble of compiling this list because I started
to wonder whether Robert Parish wasn't really "average", how good
were Bill Laimbeer's good years, whether Gminski was ever a force,
etc.  Looking at all the bozos who play for about half the teams in
the league, I think I realize just how rare good centers are.
And how bad the median, or average, is.

Thanks for your time.

--Gidi
From: cubbie@garnet.berkeley.edu (   )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: USA v Angola
Date: 28 Jul 1992 20:34:22 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

Following up on the Barkley story in 84:
   It was reported Knight told the players to be on time for the practice and
he was late in one incident. Charles stood up to him and questioned him why
he was late. Knight was very angry and called him "fat as_" or something like
that. Charles had no intention of playing in the Olympics at that time, he just
wanted to showcase his talent for a better drafting position. So it worked
out fine for both Knight and Barkley for the selection process.
From: nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Cut & Paste
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:13:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory

In article <1992Jul22.185554.22599@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor) writes:

>That's fine. But as long as I can get him admitting it's was a "home job",
>or "bad call", that's enough. Whether he did  actually say bogus is 
>immaterial.

   "enough" for what?  an admission that he is a careless poster?
    who could care less.....

>
>                                          Edward Lor

- nate
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Cut & Paste
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:03:35 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <1992Jul22.182622.21704@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor) writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.142559.12916@uvmark.uucp> davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:
>>>>In Ed Lor's mind, (b) == d, e, f, g... as well as (a), where (d), (e), (f), and
>>>>(g) are other incidents Ed considers as bogus (Trent Tucker, etc..)
>>>(d), (e), (f) ... undefined.
>>
>>Not really.. You mentioned at least 7 things.  They make up the (d), (e), (f)
>>variables.  They are the individual incidences you consider bogus.
>OK, but you didn't say it. How did I know what they are?

I didn't say it???  I stated that "where (d), (e), (f), and (g) are other
incidents Ed considers bogus".  How much clearer do you wish them to be.
They are meant to be variables, not just statics.
>
>>Figured it fit in with yours...
>Well, but I didn't do something like
>
>   (a) !subset (b) 
>
>in any proof. (b) is the set of <WHAT ED LOR, not dave meeks, CONSIDERS BOGUS>, 

Correct.  You state and believe (b).  You try to prove that I have said 
(b) == home jobs, when what I said over and over, at the very most, was
(b), with the exception of (a) as I do not consider it to be bogus, 
== homejobs that happen everywhere.
-- 
David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: bill@gaza.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (William J. King)
Subject: Magic hurt?
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 03:15:43 GMT

 I heard Magic got hurt in the Croatia game today. Any details?

--
    bill@uhunix.bitnet 
    bill@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu 
    21.19 N.LAT by 157.52 W.LONG          
    Fish on the Byte
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro