HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: adoerfer@laserwar.pko.dec.com (_bill)
Subject: Re: The right stuff
Summary: MOTORDOME
Keywords: select features
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 01:12:48 GMT


In article <1992Sep10.131255.13477@athena.mit.edu>, sao@athena.mit.edu (Andy Oakland) writes...
>In article <BuBw6D.37v@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> mdchaney@fractal.ucs.indiana.edu (M Darrin Chaney) writes:
>>...I suspect that in the near future, we might be able to
>>choose a certain "rule set" to play under when we walk up to a pinball
>>game.  That would be interesting.
> 
>In fact, this has already happened!  I've played a game ("Blackwater
>100," I believe) where each player selected a difficulty level to play
>at.  
> 
>I'm fuzzy on the name of the machine...I know "Blackwater" is the moto-
>cross theme game which starts out in multiball mode and has a little
>red/yellow/green stoplight in the upper right.  But I'm not certain
>this is the one with selectable difficulty levels.  Does anyone know
>for sure, and does anyone else know of games where you could select
>difficulty levels?
> 
>	:Andy Oakland
>	sao@athena.mit.edu

Wrong end of the TNT line, Andy!  The game with the selectable skill level
was MOTORDOME.  Skill level I was Gearhead, Level II was Cruiser, Level
III was Dome Master.  You are right that some features varied depending
on skill level.  For example, how many letters in million the center
arrow lit.  THe operator coudl set that at level I, you'd spot 3 spots,
but only 2 at level II and one a level III.  A timer you were thinking
of was at level III on the drop traget that "guards" the ramp.  It would
reset in 9, 15, 21 or 27 seconds, but ONLY timed on level III play.
You would select your skill level at the start of the game using the
flipper buttons.

This was on sort of a different thread - but there was a similar discussion
along the lines of playfield features that the player controls.  Remember
there was a game that had inline drop targets (like 8-ball deluxe, party
animal, flash gordon and others), but on this one, if you played the game
well enough, you could knock down one of the targets - AND it would always
be the "next" one - the one you needed.  Button on the left knocked down
the left side, button on the righ knocked down the single player controled
drop target on the right.  So, you the player, could, at almost any time,
"configure" the game to include access to ramps, or not, and how many
drop targets you wanted to shoot for.  Name of the game at the end of the post.
_bill
              __________           You can't get away
                       /
                       ------* Adoerfer@bk2000.pko.dec.com


The game was SPECIAL FORCE
From: kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Keith Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Weak flipper cures?
Date: 9 Sep 92 01:18:08 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

TAF hard to find in the UK??  >I< didn't think so...  See, I visited England
for a couple of weeks during the summer.  We spent one week in London, then
drove around and saw some other towns, including some coastal town, a place
or 2 in Scotland, and a couple of places in Wales.

At any rate, I played one TAF in Picadilly Circus (very impressive arcad
there, big on Virtuality games).  Another one in that town on the East
Coast (I don't know if you all call it that over there or not...), and
finally the third one I saw was in Wales.  AND, the highlight of my trip,
pinball-wise, was that place in Wales (Llandudno) was the first machine I
broke 1 bil. on.  The reason was because the tilt sensor barely worked, so
it was quite frankly next to impossible to lose my ball, since you can also
save the ball if it goes down the right drain.  One of those Death Saves DID
give me a warning once, though. :)  Even though the game had only 2 balls in
it (no idea where the third one was, didn't see it anywhere), the fact that
I couldn't tilt it was more than redeeming.

So, they're certainly up there...  Certainly not as many as around here, but
keep looking!

keith

-- 
|kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu|\\\XXXXX///|"The players tried to take the field, |
|.....Keith P. Johnson.....| \XXXXXXX/ | The marching band refused to yield.  |
|.1711 Whipple Dr. Apt. 11.| /XXXXXXX\ | Do you recall what was revealed      |
|...Blacksburg, VA 24060...|///XXXXX\\\| The day the music died?" -Don MacLean|
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: jimh@pacdata.uucp (Jim Harkins)
Subject: Re: licensed themes
Organization: Pacific Data Products
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 22:18:54 GMT

In article <253@maxx.UUCP> tyager@maxx.UUCP (Tom Yager) writes:
>I'm waiting for the day when
>playfields, ROM code and backglass art become modular so pinball machines
>can be changed over like video games. I wonder how much operators could save
>by keeping the cabinet, electronics and coin door and swapping out the rest.

*shiver*  I don't know about you, but around here very few operators maintain
games.  When the game quits making money they simply swap it out, I assume
it then goes to a bar where management figures the drunks won't care that
the flippers are weak and 1/3 of the sensors don't.  If the operators could
just swap out the playfield without getting new sensors/flippers/drop targets
then you'll instantly have a worn out game with brand new software.  Not good.

>This is an interesting thread, and I enjoyed your contribution to it. Very
>thoughtful.

agreed.

jim

-- 
Lawyers Creed:  What's mine is mine, what's yours is negotiable.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Harkins                         [ucsd|uunet]!pacdata!jim
Pacific Data Products               jim@pacdata.com
--------------------------------------------------------------

From: al@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Al Knox)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:30:07 GMT
Subject: Pinball Trader???
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball

     Has anyone heard what the status is of the Pinball Trader magazine?
I really do miss information that was provided.

Thanks,

Al Knox
From: tyager@maxx.UUCP (Tom Yager)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: 3 minute warning
Date: 11 Sep 92 19:39:25 GMT
Organization: New Hampshire Public Access UNIX

One of my recent postings made reference to designers' mandate to keep
playing time under control. I must have been unclear, because an acquaintance
of mine who works for a pin manufacturer caught wind of my post and sent me
a correction. I told him I'd summarize it here for the benefit of those who
might also have taken my post the wrong way.

Game designers do have a mandate to try to keep average playing time within
reasonable limits. They do not, however, knowingly build features into games
that result in quick drains. In fact, in addition to tuning games to reduce
ball time, designers somtimes change features to INCREASE ball time. If some
piece of playfield hardware results in a fast drain, that's considered a flaw
and it generally gets fixed.

I didn't mean to portray game designers as being dedicated only to meeting
business objectives. They're players, too, so when they build and make changes
to games, they do their best to see things from the player's perspective. The
best games are those that manage a balance between business objectives (the
three-minute average game being among them) and player preferences. I can't
think of any designer I've met that doesn't hold the player's enjoyment
as a top priority.
-- 
Tom Yager, BYTE Multimedia Lab Director
           Author, Addison-Wesley UNIX programming book (Summer, 1991)
           Author, Harcourt Brace Jovanovich multimedia book (Fall, 1992)
           decvax!maxx!tyager, maxx!tyager@bytepb.byte.com
From: mstephens.520@postman.gsfc.nasa.gov (mark stephens)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: need help on old EM game
Date: 15 Sep 92 21:02:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: nasa/gsfc

I've suddenly bin bitten by the pinball purchase bug.  I'm mainly interested
in getting one of the older electro-mechanical games.  (Of course, I would
not mind the Addams Familly, even if I've only just looked at it, never
played it!)

I have an opertunity to purchase a "mint condition" game called "Nipit".
I have not seen it and don't know what mint condition here means.  I've
read the FAQ for this group (thanks folks!) but any other advice as to 
what to look for would be helpfull.  Anybody remember this one?  Good
game? Comments on EM machines verses ones with chips?  I believe the price
mentioned was in the $400 - $500 range.  Seems like a lot of bucks for an
older game.  If it is in mint condition, which I take for all parts working
and the artwork intack, what should I offer?

As an aside, I was in Orlando, FL (World Science Fiction Convention) and stopped
by the "Pinball Connection".  They were a major disapointment as I was 
enthusiastic about my pending purchase and was told by an employee that
he would not pay 50 bucks for any EM game.  I suppose he was just trying
to blow off the tourist as he knew I was not gona buy a pinball machine 
and cart it off to Washington, D.C.   Sigh, I expected that someone in the
business would show a little, tiny bit of spark.  Oh well.

thanks!
                mark
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: dpettit@javelin.sim.es.com (Daina Pettit)
Subject: Re: Pinball Auction Summary
Keywords: pinball auction sale money
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 22:42:13 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.231228.10493@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> knudsen@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (michael.j.knudsen) writes:
>In article <Btt34I.1xH@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, shewchun@boomer.uwaterloo.ca (Dave Shewchun) writes:
>
>> Black Pyramid            $375
>> [older pin, decent shape, had a moving target in the center, just
>> like Star Trek - so much for DE being original on that one :-)]
>
>Actually, the moving (swinging) target dates back to WIlliams'
>SPACE MISSION / SPACE ODYSSEY, '75 or '76.
>One of the last great EM pins -- don't complain about how slow
>EM pins are till you've tried this baby.
>
>I suspect moving targets can be found much farther back in pinball history,
>but I haven't heard of any yet.

Here's what my comprehensive pinlist says which machines have
moving/swinging targets.  

Black Pyramid          Bally           1984
Contact                Williams        1978
Mayfair                Gottlieb        1966
Space Mission          Williams        1976
Space Odyssey          Williams        1976
Star Trek              Data East       1991
Swinger                Williams        1973

I suspect Fun-Fest (Williams 1973) also has a moving target, but I don't
have a confirmation on this yet.

Seems like Gottlieb beat everyone on this back in '66.  If anyone is aware
of any other games that have this feature please post and let us know.  
-- 
  Daina Pettit  (801) 582-5847  dpettit@spiff.sim.es.com   
  Evans & Sutherland  600 Komas Drive, SLC, UT  84108
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: gleeson@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Red Mountain)
Subject: Leaving credits (was Re: LW3 and Super Mario Brothers)
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 05:16:14 GMT

In <1992Sep4.133500.1090@mwk.uucp> gleason@mwk.uucp writes:
>In article <s540oB1w164w@jwt.UUCP>, bbs-garfield@jwt.UUCP (David Eison) writes:
>> (Tokens...), lousy games with the volume WAY too loud, and lots of broken 
>> stuff...  It really scared me because I actaully LEFT CREDITS in the 
>> machine and walked off, which I've NEVER done before...)
>> 
>  Ahh, this younger generation...back when I first started playing
>pinball, I learend to always leave a credit on the machine when we were
>done, in case a brother came along later and didn't have a quarter...

Hear, hear. I've found that leaving credits (I can't remember the last time
I _didn't_ ) is not only nice for those who can't afford to play, or can't
afford to play repeatedly because they can't get replays, but is kinda nice
to those who suffer due to your skill. At the local arcade where I do most
of my playing, there are two of us who systematically destroy all the high
scores and raise the replay scores on whatever machine we're addicted to
at the time (almost always the same one -- healthy competition :-) As an 
example, when they got Party Zone, the factory replay was 90 million, and 
had dropped to 42 mil by the time we started to play it. But now, 
after we have each got quite a few billion plus games (and a 2 bil each), the
"base" replay is at 249 million. Makes it a little hard for the novices to
get a replay (which is one of the things that attracts them). So why not
leave them a credit or two (or 10, as I do :-) ? 

Hey, if you won credits, it's not like the cash's coming out of your own pocket.

Share your good fortune,
Marty.
----------------------=============***O***=============-------------------------
Martin J. Gleeson   | Computer Science, Melbourne Uni, Oz |    ...  __o    Outta
gleeson@cs.mu.oz.au |  E Pluribus Unix  |  BIKE  IT   !!  |  ...   -\<,       my
" We gladly feast on those who would subdue us." - Addams |  ....(_)/(_)..  way!
 "I can't give you brains, but I can give you a diploma." - The Wizard of Oz
----------------------=============***O***=============-------------------------
Organization: Senior, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 19:47:23 -0400 
From: Joelle Ann Mellon <jm7w+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Pittsburgh

Message to anyone in the Pittsburgh area: I am trying to get together a
bunch of people to go on a pinball expedition sometime soon. Basically,
spending the entire day, or at least a good chunk of one, jumping around
Pittsburgh playing at different stores/malls/schools/etc. I've
tentatively set up Saturday the 26th as the date, but that is subject to
change depending on interest. Mail me if you're interested, or if you
have access to local CMU boards, check out graffiti.pinball.

-Robert Chesnavich
From: bbs-garfield@jwt.UUCP (David Eison)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Pinball Volume...
Date: 6 Sep 92 20:41:09 GMT
Reply-To: bbs-garfield@jwt.UUCP
Organization: The Matrix

kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Keith Johnson) writes:

> Personally, I've wondered if it was possible to get a "pinball game
> soundtrack" or something of the sort.  Like you said, there are a lot of
> cool-sounding games out there.  One of my favorite pieces is the music
> from "Midnight in FunHouse" played when you've locked 2 balls and Rudy
> falls asleep, and you have to shoot his mouth to start multiball.  There
> is a lot of good music in Whirlwind too.  And even Dr. Dude.  (Anyone
> else out there played that one, BTW?)

I still haven't played Funhouse, but I did play Dr. Dude once or twice.. 
But it was in an arcade where the speakers were all but shut off, so I 
don't know about the music.. :(  I saw someone selling a CD of 
StreetFighter II music, which he got in Japan, so I figure anything 
that's popular in Japan you can get a soundtrack for.  But I don't know 
anything about Pinball in Japan.. <G>

---
David Eison - Garfield           bbs-garfield@jwt.uucp
I'm not writing a message.  These words are just here to take up space.
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: hal@gateway.mitre.org (Hal Feinstein)
Subject: The right stuff
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 15:09:43 GMT

I'm sure this  will get a lot of flame mail but here goes:

I talked to a lot of pinball players, some good and some average 
and none of them said to me "Gee, the art work was so important to 
the game that it's the reason I play it." IN fact, what they did say
was that they try to filter out the thematic stuff on the playfield
and concentrate on getting high scores or free balls or plays. So if the
machine wants you to hit five drop targets and three roll overs to get 
500,000 points, this is what they will do.  That these drop targets
correspond to ace, king,queen and jack on some machine called grand flush is
nice.. but really, does it matter?

Some said that to get good with a game you first had to learn to ignore the 
distractors on the playfield.  

Why do I bring this up?  Well, the pingame manufacturers seem to require each 
new machine to be tied to some rock, sports and now sci-fi (Dr Who) personality.
I'm sure they pay good bucks to get the rights to do this but is it really 
necessary? The geniuses in their marketing departments probably are telling 
them that have to do this because their competitors are doing it.  Or perhaps 
they've got some high dollar consultanting firm on  contract and they've been 
paying excellent fees to be told this sort of stuff from guys in $1000 suits.

But just maybe, what makes a game a best seller and makes money for the
operators has nothing to do with which pop-culture marketing gimmicks. 

Just maybe TAF is a best seller, not because it based on a current big 
selling pop-culture icon but because its got the right stuff.  There is 
something about a game that makes it exciting to play, that makes you want to
focus your attention on the ball, that gives you visual or auditory awards. 
These are the traditional "features"  that make pinball worth playing. 

Lets boil this down to a few questions: (1) What makes a game exciting.
(2) What makes the public want to play a game (hence good for the operator)
and profitable for the maker. (3) Must a game be tied to a pop-culture 
marketing gimmik to make money? (4) Will a straight forward minimalist game ever
compare with TAF for excitment and profit.


                           -H.
From: kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Keith Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: About that time (poll & ftp site)
Date: 15 Sep 92 01:30:42 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

I know this was supposed to be mailed to <rc3u+@andrew.cmu.edu>, and I may
still do that, but I want to check something...

I ftp'ed to that ftp.ccs.north... site and got all the rule/tip sheets...
In quotes.funhouse, there's one missing that I've heard (only once) and I
wondered if anyone else had heard it before.  I was playing with a friend,
and he got the ball to the steps, but failed to get a lit value, to which
Rudy responded "Who's the dummy now?"

Anyone else heard that?  I'm pretty sure that's what he said, because I
just died and my friend got really pissed off!  %)

keith
-- 
|kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu|\\\XXXXX///|"'Relax,' said the nightman,          |
|.....Keith P. Johnson.....| \XXXXXXX/ | 'We are programmed to receive.       |
|.1711 Whipple Dr. Apt. 11.| /XXXXXXX\ | You can check out any time you like, |
|...Blacksburg, VA 24060...|///XXXXX\\\| But you can never leave.'"  - Eagles |
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: hal@gateway.mitre.org (Hal Feinstein)
Subject: Selectable Rules
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 11:34:06 GMT


In article <buzz-110992111344@pyd.apple.com> you write:
>In article <BuDBDC.K12@csugrad.cs.vt.edu>, kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu
>(Keith Johnson) wrote:
>> There was a game out by Bally I believe that let you change settings.  
>I think it was called "Eight Ball Champion", and you could select 8-ball,
>9-ball or straight pool at the start. -Steve Bollinger


On Eight Ball Champion the operator could preset the game to make different
kinds of awards for different goals. Example: replay on new  highscore,
free ball on special+120K score, setting the game for 5-ball, 8-ball and
something called X-ball (that I havn't tried yet). Also, the game could be
set to "remember" which drop targets or the selection of roll-overs and 
drop targets (that spell "eight ball") you got which each ball. The factory 
setting made the machine forget what you did on each ball. This wasn't much 
fun since all the machine remembered in this case was the score. 
and none of the specials. Settings are made though a hex keypad 
inside the game. (How common is this I wonder?).

So 8BallChamp  doesn't't give the user a chance to vary the rules, only
the operator.

                               -H.
From: phaedrus@milton.u.washington.edu (Phaedrus)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: The Getaway: Supercharger total?
Date: 13 Sep 92 02:01:00 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <kevin.716302222@glsdev> kevin@modcomp.uucp (Kevin Smith) writes:
>How is the Supercharger total collected.  It keeps building when 4th 
>gear supercharger mode is attained and the ball is being hit in the right
>place but I want to know how to collect that cumulative total.

     As near as I can determine, this is just plain a bug in the T2 ROMs; the
Supercharger Total is supposed to be cleared at the start of each Supercharger
round (so Supercharger Total would be like Payback Time Total on T2, or Secret
Total on HS2--just showing you how many points you collected during the bonus
period), but it isn't.  There's no way to collect this inflated total.  (Though
it is fun to drive it all the way past 255M--it goes 250M, 255M, 4M, 9M...
The computer programmers in the audience should be able to take a good guess as
to why it does this.)
-- 
Internet: phaedrus@u.washington.edu        (University of Washington, Seattle)
 "If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs,
    consider an exciting career as a guillotine operator!"
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: dpettit@javelin.sim.es.com (Daina Pettit)
Subject: Re: The right stuff
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 23:38:01 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.150943.11486@linus.mitre.org> hal@gateway.mitre.org (Hal Feinstein) writes:
>I talked to a lot of pinball players, some good and some average 
>and none of them said to me "Gee, the art work was so important to 
>the game that it's the reason I play it."

On the other hand, how many people have ever played a machine with the
backglass missing?  A local arcade had a HIGH SPEED with a broken
backglass, so they used a sheet of black acrylic to cover up the guts and
cut holes for the displays.  I never saw anyone play this machine.  Several
months later they had a new backglass in it and now about every time I go
there some one is playing it.
-- 
  Daina Pettit  (801) 582-5847  dpettit@spiff.sim.es.com   
  Evans & Sutherland  600 Komas Drive, SLC, UT  84108
From: kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Keith Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Pinball Auction Summary
Date: 6 Sep 92 08:46:19 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

A semi-obvious one that I'm pretty sure I didn't see on the list is a more
recent one:  FunHouse!  It has the crazy steps gate, which certainly
directs a ball away from instant death.  That WOULD count, wouldn't it?

keith
-- 
|kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu|\\\XXXXX///|"The players tried to take the field, |
|.....Keith P. Johnson.....| \XXXXXXX/ | The marching band refused to yield.  |
|.1711 Whipple Dr. Apt. 11.| /XXXXXXX\ | Do you recall what was revealed      |
|...Blacksburg, VA 24060...|///XXXXX\\\| The day the music died?" -Don MacLean|
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: d91-jal@dront.nada.kth.se (Johan Almen)
Subject: Eldorado Products
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 12:34:50 GMT

Hello Net!

I'm going to order a pinball manual from Eldorado Products, and I have their
address. It would be easier for me to be able to fax my request to them, so
I wonder if someone knows a faxnumber to them.

		With hope...Johan
-- 
_____________________________________________________________________
Johan Almen			  I "I found it hard,	
School of Computer Science        I  it's hard to find.
Royal Institute of Technology     I  Oh well, whatever
Stockholm, Sweden                 I  nevermind."
email: d91-jal@dront.nada.kth.se  I		       - NIRVANA