HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: VBCSC038@VAX.CSUN.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: GNO/ME & SwitchIt
Date: 12 Jan 1993 01:19:37 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

	Since my VAX seems not to find your address, Jawaid, I decided to post
this message to you via this message base.  I need to know how much exactly
GNO/ME is.  Thanks

Brenden

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
**>   Brenden Gilbert - Computer Science Major Undergrad - CSU Northridge!  <**
**>     Reach me at vbcsc038@vax.csun.edu OR cq474@cleveland.Freenet.Edu    <**
**>  LONG LIVE THE IIGS!! APPLE II INFINITIUM!  Ask me about C programming! <**
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jamesb@ecst.csuchico.edu (James L. Brookes)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Idea for improved user control of restart flag.
Date: 5 Jan 1993 01:22:10 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu
Keywords: restartability

To be brief, my idea is something of a blend of the Orca method (which
has some problems) and the normal GS/OS method (which is not user 
configurable in general).

Start off with a SYSCMD like file somewhere, probably in the $home.  When
the system starts up, it can read this file and hash the various commands
in the table for nice quick lookup.

A small modification to rexit() is required: it would call a kernel/shell
routine which would look up the filename and see if it is to be restartable
or not.  If it is marked as restartable, then it exits with the proper
GS/OS QuitGS bits set.  Otherwise, it exits as non-restartable.  If
the filename or config file is not found, it would exit as restartable.

The beauty of this setup is that it circumvents the Orca problem: programs
which should not be restartable, because they assign constants to variables
at compile time.  If the program doesn't explicitly call rexit(), it will
exit() as normal.

Now, is this important enough to be configurable?  I for one know that
since I have plenty of memory, I can leave everything restartable.  Of
course, I suppose that I could run out of stack space pretty quickly
that way...

To make this work for many different users, the shell would probably have
to be the one to support it.  

Potential drawbacks: 

- Slower startup time, more memory used for resident hash table

     shouldn't matter, both should be pretty minimal.

- Programs would have to be recompiled with the new rexit().

     not a problem: old programs will still behave as they do now,
     as the old rexit just exits with the restart flag set.  Of course,
     this could cause some confusion among the users, but I think it 
     is worth the potential hassle.

- It will take time to implement when the time could be spent on other
more valuable things.

     Dunno, how long would this take to write?

So, is it worth adding?  Comments anyone?
-- 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
|          James Brookes            | Inet: bb252@cleveland.freenet.edu |
|``What, me worry?'' - A. E. Neuman |   jamesb@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu |
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
From: jamesb@ecst.csuchico.edu (James L. Brookes)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Re: applications list - was Re: ORCA SRC filetype conversion (+oper)
Date: 8 Jan 93 20:37:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: charnel.1ikomdINN4pm
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <1993Jan8.100136.9406@quando.quantum.de> henigan@quando.quantum.de (Kevin Henigan) writes:
>In article <1iieksINN2dr@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> jamesb@ecst.csuchico.edu (James L. Brookes) writes:
>>I can A) compile a list for the FAQ and B) so I can keep an up-to-date
>>list of what programs GNO has.
>
>GREAT, at last a list of applications that runs under GNO, any chance
>of including where the application can be got from, ftp site + filename.

Hm, now there is an interesting idea.  There's a lot of information I'd
like to include, but 80 columns only allows so much room...perhaps I'll
have a couple of lists...

> Kevin Henigan. internet: henigan@quantum.de, or henigan@quando.quantum.de
-- 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
|          James Brookes            | Inet: bb252@cleveland.freenet.edu |
|``What, me worry?'' - A. E. Neuman |   jamesb@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu |
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
From: vandry@CAM.ORG (Phillip Vandry)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Re: ORCA SRC filetype conversion (+oper)
Date: 8 Jan 93 17:45:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: CAM.C0JqoK.6FK
Organization: Champlain Regional College, St-Lambert QC CANADA

jamesb@ecst.csuchico.edu (James L. Brookes) writes:
>>>chtyp -lexec or chtyp -t SRC -a \$0006 will do the trick for you...
>>         ~~~~
>>         I can't use -lexec. Maybe I have an old chtyp or something, but I
>>         checked the source and exec isn't in the language table. I'm stuck
>>         using the second form. Is there a newer version?

>Yes, there is a newer version that handles language stamps.  Unfortunately,
>there is no real way to tell what the newer version is without trying to
>see if -l works.  Which brings up a major pet peeve of mine:

My version handles all the other languages EXCEPT exec.

>Unfortunately, only 16 of 81(!) utilities that I have checked so far have
>any sort of version printout.  Thus, I also have to stick the date of the
>latest revision in this file, which is a pain and not as accurate.

>So please, folks, when you port/write a utility, include a -V flag!  That
>way people can easily find out what version they have, and things will be
>much nicer, etc etc.  It also means when you give out source and let someone
>compile it themselves the version will still be identifable as the latest
>(which you can't say about the check-by-date version).

Hmm, don't think my seq program prints a version number.. Oh, well. From now
on...

>And, hopefully a lot of the older stuff (some of it ported before GNO) can
>be updated to include a -V flag, as well as be made restartable if possible.

>I'll post my list in a few days, we'll see what happens...

>|          James Brookes            | Inet: bb252@cleveland.freenet.edu |
 ______________________________________________________________________
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Phillip Vandry | Vandry@Cam.Org | II the future! | II 1993!          |
|________________|________________|________________|___________________|
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Re: Idea for improved user control of restart flag.
From: David.Empson@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 07:48:34 GMT
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange
Keywords: restartability

In article <1icpfiINNd21@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> jamesb@ecst.csuchico.edu (James L. Brookes) writes:
> 
> So, then should all apps be written to use rexit()?  I don't really see
> any reason to -not- make an app restartable, but then I have 4.25 megs
> of memory, and want -everything- restartable :)

If a program relies on its variables being cleared on startup, and
they've been modified by a previous execution, it wouldn't be
restartable.  Making the variable segment 'reload' can get around this
problem (but this isn't easy to do with the standard linker).

> Hm, a couple of questions I just thought of re: restartability:
> 
> I've noticed that, if I have a restartable program running in the
> background, and try to run the same application in the foreground, it will
> not restart.  No surprise, that's to be expected.  But, even after one
> execution, this copy of the app won't restart.  So, is it to be presumed
> that there can only be one copy of a given restartable application in memory
> at a time?

The System Loader keeps track of the application's pathname and user
id.  It is not safe to have the same user ID for two different
pathnames; nor is it safe to have two different user IDs for the same
pathname.

> Is it possible, in a multiuser system, for someone (for example)
> on console to use a restartable program, then exit, and for another person
> not on console to use the copy in memory?

For simultaneous use by two people, the program would require two sets
of variables.  Since the addresses of the variables are patched into
the program at load time, you would need to load a new copy of the
program to refer to a different set of variables.

It can't be done, with the current System Loader architecture.
-- 
David Empson

Internet: David.Empson@bbs.actrix.gen.nz    EMPSON_D@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Snail mail: P.O. Box 27-103, Wellington, New Zealand
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar)
Subject: Re: tty problems
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 01:09:56 GMT

eaf2239@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:

>2.  Some simple C programs I'v tried writing just to get a feel for gno are
>doing some funny things.  Mainly, when these programs are executed on another
>terminal (other than the GS), the programs will only dump text out to the
>terminals when another program ie-ls or ps, is dumping output to the GS screen.
>When the program on "the GS" stops, so do the programs runing on the terminals.

  I forgot to mention that .ttya is the modem port and .ttyb the printer
port by default- you can change these if you like. In fact, you can change
the device names too.  See the manual and the 'Release.Notes' file for more 
details
 
-- 
 Jawaid Bazyar              |   Ask me about the GNO Multitasking Environment
 Procyon, Inc.              |   for the Apple IIgs!   
 bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu         |   P.O Box 620334
 --Apple II Forever!--      |   Littleton, CO 80162-0334   (303) 933-4649
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: eaf2239@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: tty problems
Reply-To: eaf2239@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:05:42 GMT

I am having a great deal of difficulty getting the serial ports under GNO to
work properly under the gsh shell.
 
1.  Even with the serial ports echo off I get 2 char. back for each I type on
the terminal display.  Data sent to the terminal from the GS is only singal
chars as it should be.
 
2.  Some simple C programs I'v tried writing just to get a feel for gno are
doing some funny things.  Mainly, when these programs are executed on another
terminal (other than the GS), the programs will only dump text out to the
terminals when another program ie-ls or ps, is dumping output to the GS screen.
When the program on "the GS" stops, so do the programs runing on the terminals.
 
Any ideas??
 
Ethan Funk
EAF2239@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: vandry@CAM.ORG (Phillip Vandry)
Subject: Re: Cron and serial drivers
Organization: Champlain Regional College, St-Lambert QC CANADA
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:09:06 GMT

bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar) writes:

>vandry@CAM.ORG (Phillip Vandry) writes:

>>1. How do you use cron on the GS. It has been compiled for the GS but it
>>   still expects UNIX pathnames like /etc/cronlog and stuff like that. I
>>   don't know who ported it but they should change the pathnames!
>>   (Sure there's pathnames.h but not everybody has ORCA/C to recompile it)

>  The very latest version of cron fixed the hardcoded pathname problem; 
>in fact, I wrote cron from scratch for the IIgs, rather than port it.
>I wanted something small and tidy, and from-scratch usually gets you
>that.  I have my system set up with UNIX volume names. In the initial
>cron release I forgot to change those, but when we went through a big
>cron bug-busting session for a while I fixed that at the same time.

You mean on your GS you have a partition called /etc/ and another one called
/usr/ and another one called /dev/, etc...?

So is the new one on pindarus?

> Jawaid Bazyar              |   Ask me about the GNO Multitasking Environment
 ______________________________________________________________________
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Phillip Vandry | Vandry@Cam.Org | II the future! | II 1993!          |
|________________|________________|________________|___________________|
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: vandry@CAM.ORG (Phillip Vandry)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Re: applications list - was Re: ORCA SRC filetype conversion (+oper)
Date: 10 Jan 93 18:31:21 GMT
Organization: Champlain Regional College, St-Lambert QC CANADA

tribby@hpindda.cup.hp.com (David Tribby) writes:
>jamesb@ecst.csuchico.edu (James L. Brookes) wrote:
>
>>I've been going through the list of applications that work under GNO so
>>I can A) compile a list for the FAQ and B) so I can keep an up-to-date
>>list of what programs GNO has.
>
>FANTASTIC! A *great* idea. I have often wondered whether I have the latest
>version of GNO applications. This sounds like a good list to put on pindarus.
>Perhaps the list could also include whether the application has a man page.

There are surely more programs that work with GNO than there are programs
that don't. I think it would be more beneficial to list programs that have
a problem with GNO. (And encourage the authoers to do something about it :) )
 ______________________________________________________________________
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Phillip Vandry | Vandry@Cam.Org | II the future! | II 1993!          |
|________________|________________|________________|___________________|
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar)
Subject: Re: GNO Trashed my Hard Drive!
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 08:08:16 GMT

damin@habermann.cba.csuohio.edu (Greg Boehnlein) writes:

>	Can any of you GNO guru's explain why this simple mistake caused
>GNO to trash my Hard Drive btimap???

>tc &

>I KNOW that you shouldn't background Telcom and still try to use the
>shell, but it was an honest and simple mistake. Now I have lost
>EVRYTHING on the 85 Megger including chunks of the partition map!

>Is there some way to prevent this from happening in the future? And why
>WOULD it do this?

>SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT! Welp..I guess it's time to re-install all that
>software I was planning on...

  I'm sorry for what happened, but I'm afraid that unless it is 
reproduceable, nothing can be done.  It seems like one of those
things that could happen by any piece of software going a bit
berzerk; a jump into the wrong place in GS/OS (or memory-trashing
GS/OS cache memory before it gets purged) could cause a hard
drive to get messed up.
  So, in short, it's really one of those unfortunate things that
can happen in any program.
  FWIW, during initial GNO testing I bg'd TelCom with no ill effects.

-- 
 Jawaid Bazyar              |   Ask me about the GNO Multitasking Environment
 Procyon, Inc.              |   for the Apple IIgs!   
 bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu         |   P.O Box 620334
 --Apple II Forever!--      |   Littleton, CO 80162-0334   (303) 933-4649
From: chrisw@amiganet.chi.il.us (Chris Wicklein)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Re: ORCA SRC filetype conversion.
Date: 11 Jan 93 18:25:55 CST
Organization: Amiga Network Information Systems

I don't like to quote a lot of stuff into my responses, but someone is having
trouble getting EMACS to save type SRC aux $0008 files.  I'm not sure on the
specifiecs, but the best (most clever, anyway) solution is to write a macro
that will intelligently issue chtyp to the underlying shell when a file with
suffix .c or .cc is saved.  You could probably bind-to-key a whole new save
macro for C programs, in fact.  I'll post the exact solution when/if I figure
it out...

---
chrisw@amiganet.chi.il.us
(Chris Wicklein)
From: jamesb@ecst.csuchico.edu (James L. Brookes)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Re: Cron and serial drivers
Date: 6 Jan 93 23:11:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: charnel.1ifou9INNg77
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <C0G2F8.7ov@CAM.ORG> vandry@CAM.ORG (Phillip Vandry) writes:
>bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar) writes:
>
>>that.  I have my system set up with UNIX volume names. In the initial
>>cron release I forgot to change those, but when we went through a big
>>cron bug-busting session for a while I fixed that at the same time.
>
>You mean on your GS you have a partition called /etc/ and another one called
>/usr/ and another one called /dev/, etc...?

Hehe, not exactly...

>So is the new one on pindarus?

It doesn't seem to be there...perhaps Jawaid can upload that when he
uploads sz and the new drivers...

>| Phillip Vandry | Vandry@Cam.Org | II the future! | II 1993!          |
-- 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
|          James Brookes            | Inet: bb252@cleveland.freenet.edu |
|``What, me worry?'' - A. E. Neuman |   jamesb@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu |
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From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: GNU Zip
Date: 5 Jan 93 19:55:03 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

While it's still a bit early, it wouldn't be a bad idea to port GNU Zip (gzip)
to GNO.  It's intended to be a replacement for UNIX compress.

It uses Zip's "deflate" algorithm, which will do better than freeze(1) on
the medium to high settings (you can control speed vs compression with -1 to
-9).  It's larger than freeze but smaller than a complete archiver, and has
some useful features.

It's only at v0.6 right now.  You can find it on ftp.uu.net in /systems/gnu/
as gzip-0.6.tar.Z, and it's mirrored on prep.ai.mit.edu:/pub/gnu/.

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
From: vandry@CAM.ORG (Phillip Vandry)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Re: Idea for improved user control of restart flag.
Keywords: restartability
Date: 6 Jan 93 02:05:58 GMT
Organization: Champlain Regional College, St-Lambert QC CANADA

jamesb@ecst.csuchico.edu (James L. Brookes) writes:

>I've noticed that, if I have a restartable program running in the
>background, and try to run the same application in the foreground, it will
>not restart.  No surprise, that's to be expected.  But, even after one
>execution, this copy of the app won't restart.  So, is it to be presumed
>that there can only be one copy of a given restartable application in memory
>at a time?  Is it possible, in a multiuser system, for someone (for example)
>on console to use a restartable program, then exit, and for another person
>not on console to use the copy in memory?

Oh, wait a minute. You bring up some interesting things here.

Let's say you start a second instance of a restartable program. Is it logical
to simply duplicate the existing copy rather than get it from disk? I think
not for two reasons. 1. You can't relocate it again. 2. [Explained below]

Also, if a process is kill(SIGKILL)ed, (or other "destructive" signal), it 
should never be restarted from memory. Here's why:

If I wrote a program that changes itself (or even changes a GS/OS parameter
block) then changes itself back (which I do often) I would make this program
restartable (assuming the rest of the program is restartable). Sure it assumes
that a certain address will contain a certain value, and that value gets 
changed later, but it gets changed right back, and unless the program exits
between the changing and the changing back, it's ok. The problem is that the
SIGKILL could easily occur between the two.

Example:

main      lda refnum
          sta readrec+2
          ReadGS readrec
          lda #500
          sta len
          ReadGS readrec
          lda #200
          sta len
          ...
readrec   dc  i'2'
          ds  2
          dc  a4'buffer'
len       dc  i4'200'
          ds  4

This fragment reads 700 bytes. The first read assumes that len will be set to
200. Unless the program exits while it is temporarily at 500, it will in fact
be at 200.

Yesterday I would have made this program restartable, but now I see that it is
not since the program could die while len is set to 500.

What is the solution?

>|          James Brookes            | Inet: bb252@cleveland.freenet.edu |
 ______________________________________________________________________
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Phillip Vandry | Vandry@Cam.Org | II the future! | II 1993!          |
|________________|________________|________________|___________________|
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: schultp@wl.com (Paul Schultz)
Subject: Re: List of shell applications that work under GNO
Organization: Warner Lambert / Parke-Davis
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 04:54:24 GMT

Thanks here too! (Now, I just have to get GNO!)
Seriously, it does help to see what is out there for use 
with GNO.

-- 
===============================
Internet: schultp@pd-dom.wl.com
===============================
From: vandry@CAM.ORG (Phillip Vandry)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Restartability
Date: 8 Jan 93 17:49:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: CAM.C0JquI.6K7
Organization: Champlain Regional College, St-Lambert QC  CANADA

This thread was in EMail, but I believe it is more apropriate for it to
be in this group.

> >instance of the program again (well, I guess you could if you really
> >worked hard on your program, but it's not worth it, is it?)
> 
> It is *definitely* worth it. Just think of 10 users using vi. Now would
> you want 10 copies of vi in memory or 1 copy of vi with 10 dp/stack
> segments for each instance of the program?

But I'm not sur eit can be done. It involves keeping no variables in
the program itself, and therefore using pretty big chunks of bank 0
memory. But even then there are still GS/OS parameter blocks which
pretty much must reside inside the program. There would have to be
semaphores around all accesses to GS/OS paramter blocks, and since
each instance of the program is seperate, who creates the semaphores
and tells everyone else about them?..

> Albert
 ______________________________________________________________________
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Phillip Vandry | Vandry@Cam.Org | II the future! | II 1993!          |
|________________|________________|________________|___________________|
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Xref: sparky comp.sys.apple2:26763 comp.binaries.apple2:1975
From: milhouse.caltech.edu!nathan (Nathan Mates)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: FTA Easter Eggs
Date: 5 Jan 1993 23:07:18 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: milhouse.caltech.edu
Originator: nathan@milhouse

   On the subject of Easter eggs which appeared here recently, are there
any in the FTA products (Nucleus, Modulae, Space Harrier, etc.)? I have
almost all of them, and although I haven't really tried, I haven't 
found any.
   Any response would be appreciated...

Nathan Mates
nathan@cco.caltech.edu
-- 

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