HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: One-joke books
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:13:07 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: ncramer@bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)

In article <l9jsn6INN9tn@news.bbn.com>, ncramer@bbn (Nichael Cramer) writes:
>The ultimate one-joke book, but amazingly funny nonetheless.

There are probably numerous other one-joke books that could be called
"ultimate".  The only one that comes to mind right now is Knutson
FLATTENED FAUNA, a field guide to roadkill.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:15148 soc.history:7806
From: bhanafee@picasso.ads.com (Brian Hanafee)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,soc.history
Subject: Re: History for Valley gals
Date: 15 Aug 92 02:29:55 GMT
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems, Mountain View, CA 94043, +1 (415)
	960-7300


In article <JMC.92Aug13222901@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:
>My company Memorable History, Inc. has trained consultants to help
>school boards initiate the program.

I found the following on rec.humor.funny a few weeks ago.  It might
be appropriate for your new company:




J. Walter Thompson, a huge ad agency, has a test for all wannabe
copywriters.  They print it every few years as a full page ad in many
major newspapers.  They call the campaign "Write if you want work."

My response to the question, "Write the history of the
United States in 100 words or less":

	Creation.  Evolution.  Civilization.  Exploration.
Colonization.  Taxation.  Representation?  Declaration.  Revolution.
Celebration. Constitutionalization.  Election.  Inauguration.
Succession.  Institutionalization.  Conflagration.  Migration.
Plantation.  Expansion.  Destination Manifestation.  Annexation.
Secession.  Rebellion.  Abolition.  Emancipation Proclamation.
Assassination.  Reconstruction.  Industrialization.  Assassination.
Invention.  Transportation.  Urbanization.  Exploitation.
Stratification.  Assassination.  Unionization.  Protection.
Regulation.  Suffrage Extension.  Balkanization.  Destruction.  League
of Nations.  Prohibition.  Immigration.  Depression.  Socialization.
Construction.  Isolation.  Deterioration.  Penetration.
Fission-n-Fusion.  Annihilation.  Radiation.  Polarization.
Militarization.  Partition.  Persecution.  Automation.  Failed
Invasion.  Assassination.  Investigation.  Division.  Demonstration.
Mind Alteration.  Space Exploration.  Bra Incineration.  Obfuscation.
Resignation.  Elation.  Stupification.  Abortion.  Stagflation.  Gas
Station.  Computerization.  Communication.  Deregulation.  Pollution.
Deforestation.  Kinder, Gentler Nation.  Reunification.
Reconciliation.  Verification.  Recession.  Demarcation.
Obliteration.  Glorification.  Education?

copyright 1992 david hyatt -- don't rip it off if you're taking the
same test!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  david hyatt                  "MMMMMMMmmmmmmm.....  lutefisk"      |
|  dhyatt@leland.stanford.edu    415-497-1718    - Homer, someday... |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Brian Hanafee                         Advanced Decision Systems
bhanafee@ads.com                      1500 Plymouth Street
(415) 960-7300                        Mountain View, CA 94043-1230
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Forster (was Re: MFK Fisher (Re: Bang, BANG, B-A-N-G!)
Date: 30 Aug 92 15:27:34 GMT



I tried to post this a week ago -- but I believe it got lost on the net.
Forgive me if you have seen it.

------------------------------------------------

vks0@bunny.gte.com (Vijay Samalam) <who has been silent for a while> writes:

        I agree ! I never did like "A Passage to India"

        The problem with the book is that Forster never really understood
        India or Indians though he was extremely sympathetic and tried
        very hard to understand I might hasten to add. The book tries to
        explore the problems in the thorny relations between the British
        and the Indians and does not do a very good job.

le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel) responds:

        I don't agree. I always thought that the main thrust of the novel
        was one women's reaction to her sexual awakening.  That was the
        _real_ passage of the novel.  And her sense of guilt was able
        to take advantage of the poor race relations to find a target
        for blame outside herself.

Forster writes very complex novels which often seem to be simple.  When
one realizes that he uses individuals to represent social classes in a
book like HOWARDS END, the novel takes on new complexities.

Similarly, A PASSAGE TO INDIA can be taken on many levels, and the
treatment of Indians by the British is certainly paramount to the
story.  While it is true that there is an implied sexual awakening
in the book, it is accompanied by -- or rather a part of -- a greater
awakening, which Mrs. Moore could understand better than the others.


Ron Continues (quoting Vijay):

        what you mean by being "written not out of experience".

                I didn't understand that comment either.  Unless this
                was meant to mean that Forrster was writing about something
                he himself knew nothing of.  This was Hemingway's feeling
                too, that a writer can only write well what he knows about
                from direct experience.  I don't agree.

As for writing from experience, I believe that Forster's own sexual
awakening occurred during his time in India.  Forster may well have
agreed with Hemingway, though.  He stopped publishing after PASSAGE,
because he wanted to write about homosexual themes, and felt that
books on that subject would not be accepted.

Mark
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Date: 27 Aug 92 15:54:47 GMT


Since I have recently been very critical of Clayton Cramer about some
things where I felt he was wrong, I feel compelled to voice my agreement
with him about something where I feel that he is right.  His statements
about the ancient Greeks were interpretted by one person as being racist,
and by another as being factually incorrect.  Maybe it has something to
do with the words "Black" and "White."  As Francis recently pointed out,
Dumas, who is considered black by many, was (being an albino) whiter
than just about everyone (having seen an albino in the subway last week,
I was reminded that they are actually very pink).

"White," on the other hand, is usually used to indicate a caucasion.  Most
modern day Greeks fit into this category.  As Clayton points out, we can
look at Ancient Greek art, and see that this was true of the Ancients,
as well.  Mike Morris was quite right in describing how Clayton was
using the word.  It is a pretty common usage.

As for Clayton's other comments:

        . . . unless a writer makes a point of telling me his
        race or gender, and that it has some significance to
        what he is writing about (e.g., Shelby Steele's _The
        Content of our Character_), I don't see much point to
        classifying the author by race or gender.

I wonder if, perhaps, Ms. Manes & Mr. Rooney read too much into this.
I read this as if to say "It shouldn't matter what the race of an author
is -- unless his race is important to the subject matter, or the author
has brought it up for some reason."

I wonder how they would have reacted if someone else had made this statement.

I've noticed that since my attacks on him, Clayton has been a little more
careful in the conclusions that he draws from points that he has made, and
seems to be a little more careful in his wording.  This tells me something
about him.  We can all be a little more careful about jumping to conclusions.
Clayton's comments are only inflammatory if we assume that they come from
beliefs which are not evident, and which I do not believe are there.

Mark
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik (Hacker))
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 23 Aug 92 19:37:48 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,talk.religion.misc,sci.skeptic
Organization: Apple

In article <sbuckley.714253616@sfu.ca>, sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen
Buckley) wrote:
> 
> ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata FSO) writes:
> >If one goes by the definition that "creation" means making something out
> >of nothing, it becomes very hard to visualize man ever creating anything,
> >no matter how advanced she becomes.
> 
>   neat way of putting it.  i agree.  it makes me think that anything
> bound by the first and second laws of thermodynamics can't create anything
> out of nothing.

We are dealing with a self-regulated, and self-preserving system, when
we talk about the first and second laws of thermodynamics. If you want
to keep God in touch with our universe, even he (or she, who knows) has
to follow the laws of the first and second thermodynamics. Otherwise
this being breaks the laws, causing destruction.

However, if you want to place God *outside* our universe, he has
nothing to deal with these laws. Whatever you choose, you loose.

Cheers,
Kent
---
"Read my lips... No Willie Horton..."
From: heidi@wolf.net.com (Heidi Wolf)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Sherlock Holmes Quote
Date: 1 Sep 92 21:06:33 GMT
Organization: N.E.T., Redwood City, CA

In article <2060@deadmin.ucsd.edu> napier@cs.ucsd.edu (Jim Napier) writes:
>
>I looking for a Sherlock Holmes quote which I can't remember fully. To
>paraphrase it Holmes stated that "when all the facts have been
>properly taken into account, the resulting conclusion, no matter how
>bizarre, must be the truth". Can anyone give me the correct exact quote?
>Thanks.


From Bartlett's FAMILIAR QUOTATIONS:

	"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, 
	 however improbable, must be the truth."

				- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle,
				  "The Sign of Four," Chapter 6
From: oliver@baobab.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Oliver Sharp)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Patrick O'Brian vs Horatio Hornblower...
Date: 26 Aug 92 14:53:15 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: baobab.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug25.232006.21407@nas.nasa.gov> wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith) writes:
>Some technical management book I read in the last few years had
>a reference to Hornblower.   It may have been "Peopleware"
>by Lister and DeMarco.  They were discussing Hornblower's management
>style where he observes new individuals under his command and then
>decides what level of responsibility he can trust them with.  In
>time of crisis Hornblower has his response team ready with the "right"
>people.

No offense to William, but this reminded me of a terrifyingly funny book 
a friend of mine showed me.  It was arguing in favor of a liberal arts
education for business majors by going through several of the classics
and showing how they had important lessons for managers.  The alienation
of Achilles and subsequent travails for the Greeks showed the need to
keep all the important players happy in a business deal.  Odysseus, by
devoting all his attentions to foriegn wars, allowed the situation at
home to deteriorate badly (we don't have to worry about anything like
that in modern times, of course :-).  This is a lesson not to lose touch
with your local corporate interests by becoming overly excited about
deals with other companies or abroad.  You get the idea.  They did
this for some ten or twenty Great Works, each time boiling the whole
thing down to a few sentences.

With friends like these ...

Cheers,
- Oliver

P.S.  Count me another Hornblower fan (I've read every book at least four
times) who didn't like O'Brian much.  One of the differences is that
Forester uses a very sparse and straight-forward writing style, while
O'Brian meanders about much more.  Unfortunately, in my opinion, he isn't
a good enough writer to make that work.  I get an irritating sense of
clutter, of side references that interfere with the flow of the story.
Rich prose can be a many-splendored thing, but only if you are awfully
good.  George Eliot, for example, uses it to marvelous effect in a novel
like Middlemarch.  But that wasn't filled with blood and thunder, which
impose their own demands.
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:15507 rec.humor:27730 alt.folklore.urban:22764 rec.arts.sf.misc:2800
From: twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Summary: Parlez-vous Quayle?
Date: 3 Sep 92 02:39:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Sep3.023905.20627
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Aug31.200124.1198@bnlux1.bnl.gov> schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov 
(gary l. schroeder) writes:
>
>
>>(Am I in the right solar system yet?) 
>
>Alas, that's a question that I can't answer for you, Barbara.  Which one
>are you in?


Why, this one, this one... this one right here.  This one, that's a 
part, a promontory of Europe, or its continent, as that great 
philosopher de Bergerac said, although maybe not in this century.  The 
one that, that... it's near Jupiter. 

Or if not near, not far, either.  

Or neither.  Whatever. 

Just what do they teach you kids in geometry these days, anyway?


--Barbara, just a bird in a bush
From: manes@bu-pub.bu.edu (Michelle Manes)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Date: 26 Aug 92 14:25:57 GMT
Organization: Boston University

In article <11888@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug24.202946.14878@cs.brown.edu>, ks@cs.brown.edu (Kate Sanders) writes:
|> > In article <94417@bu.edu> manes@bass.bu.edu (Michelle Manes) writes:
|> # #I had the priveledge (?) of checking out the new Encyclopedia
|> # #Brittanica during an annoyingly hard-sell two days ago.  It now
|> # #comes with a series of "Great Books."  By my count:
|> # 
|> # #nonwhite males who weren't ancient Greeks: 1 (Cervantes)
|> # [other statistics omitted]
|> # 
|> # not to be picky, but ... it seems like a stretch to count Cervantes
|> # as nonwhite. now if you had said Dumas ...
|> 
|> How many nonwhite ancient Greeks were there, by the way?  Greeks are
|> a people of indisputably white race.  Or did Ms. Manes perhaps mean
|> "members of the classical Greco-Roman culture"?
|> 

You are absolutely the first person I have *ever* heard who claimed that
Greeks at any time -- much less ancient Greeks whom none of us have had the
priveledge to meet -- are "a people of indisputable white race"!  Modern
Greeks are *much* darker-skinned than your average "white" European race.
I have no reason to believe that ancient Greeks were any lighter-skinned.
Do you also believe that Jesus was pale and had light brown hair and
blue eyes because you've seen it in so many paintings?

|> Maybe I'm just a narrow-minded sort, but unless a writer makes a point
|> of telling me his race or gender, and that it has some significance to 
|> what he is writing about (e.g., Shelby Steele's _The Content of our 
|> Character_), I don't see much point to classifying the author by race 
|> or gender.
|> -- 

An author's identity -- including race, creed, gender, socio-economic
status, age, when and where they lived -- impacts his writing.  It has
significance whether or not the writer is explicitly discussing issues
of race and gender.  Whenever I begin reading a book, I look for a short
(or long) biography of the author so I have some context in which to
understand his work.  It may be true that I can enjoy and benefit from
the book without the background information, but I find this context
helps immensely.


michelle
-- 
Michelle Manes		|	"What should I be when I grow up?"
manes@bass.bu.edu	|	"Honest."
			|	-Robert M. Pirsig


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: matthew@stats.mu.oz.au (Maciek Blasikiewicz)
Subject: Re: Sea Stories 
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 06:26:34 GMT


I am posting from a friend's account.

		- John Wojdylo


Francis Muir writes:

>William R. Smith writes:

>	John Nall writes:

>		BTW, this thread awoke in me a great longing to 
>		read some more good sea stories. Anyone got any 
>		suggestions?

>	Ask Francis the Sailor Man.


>You are Master of a 600 tonner tramping through the China Sea. 

Been there, done that.  (As a mere passenger, though.)



>Ocean Passages will remind
>you of the problems ahead, and suggest solutions. 

>Francis Muir
>FELIX
>Port of Redwood City


JW
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Progress (Was : Re: The Literary Canon)
Date: 1 Sep 92 16:39:05 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <1992Aug29.124704.11659@ultb.isc.rit.edu> entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>In 6766 Margaret Kulska writes "You mean Cervantes wasn't a...
>White Caucasian male?  What race was he, then?"
>
>I am saddened to see that the superstition of race is still
>with us despite the progress(?) of the last 50 years.

	Progress?  If progress is defined as changing the laws, then
perhaps there has been progress. However if progress is defined as
changing the hearts of men and women, then there has been very little
progress in the last few years.

>There is no such thing as race. 

	No such thing as race....  I must admit this is an intriguing
idea, and it pushes some buttons that were developed, for me, in a Gay
Studies class which was heavily deconstructionist (I'm still learning
what that means) in its approach to just about everything.
	The basic argument in the class was whether social categories,
such as race, gender and sexual orientation, were essential
categories or social constructs. In other words, is there really
essentially any such thing as race? It is universal?  Does is mean the
same thing to  be black/mexican/asian in every time and every place? 
	Arguing that race is a social construct is a powerful argument
against racism, in that as race is no longer an essential category and
thus no longer a static category.  Basically, no one can claim to be
essential superior to another, as race is then a category constructed
by a particular culture for a particular reason, as a means of
defining differences and building a structure around them.  
	Social constructs can also be changed, whereas essential
categories are "forever and ever, amen".  


>It is time to bury the racist notion of race and get on with
>the business of building a safe, liveable world.

	It would be an interesting experiment, if only we could get
everyone to simultaneous give up the notion of race. However, since
that isn't possible, some brave soul must sally forth without the
sheild of "race", into a world of folk armed with swords of that same
metal.





-- 
"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
			-Joseph Beam_
Terrance Heath 
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ve3pak@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Alayne McGregor and Brett Delmage)
Subject: Re: The Clockwork Test of Merit -or- Burning Burgess at both ends
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC., Orleans (Ont)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 02:11:00 GMT

In article <26AUG199217290170@zeus.tamu.edu> spb0457@zeus.tamu.edu (SubGenius) writes:
>So, it a typical fit of SubG wishywashyness (which I could have avioded by
>buying a used copy of _Little Wilson and so on_ for $8.00, but I seldom
>pay that much for a single book) I've decided to shove the autobiography 
>towards the rear of my To Read pile, behind an unabridged _Life of Johnson_
>I just got (single volume, making the book roughly cubic, $4.95), a copy
>of Somerset Maugham's _Cakes and Ale_ that was mysteriously on the $1.98
>table at the local university bookstore, ...

Read _Cakes and Ale_ first. Its wonderful acerbity will clear your palate.

Alayne McGregor
alayne@ve3pak.ocunix.on.ca
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: Patrick O'Brien vs Horatio Hornblower...
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:09:14 GMT

William R. Smith writes:

>Some technical management book I read in the last few years had
>a reference to Hornblower.   It may have been "Peopleware"
>by Lister and DeMarco.  They were discussing Hornblower's management
>style where he observes new individuals under his command and then
>decides what level of responsibility he can trust them with.  In
>time of crisis Hornblower has his response team ready with the "right"
>people.

	Another example of using Hornblower as manager is Michael
Harmon's "The responsible actor as 'tortured soul': the case of
Horatio Hornblower" in _Administration and Society_ 21:3 (Nov. 1989)
pp. 283-312.

	Reading this essay is not as much fun as reading Hornblower,
as the author admits; however it is interesting to see someone
recognize some of the traits that make Hornblower such a fascinating
character. A small sample: "Hornblower is a paradigm of the
responsible actor precisely because his deeds and reflections so
vividly embody the ambiguous and even contradictory meanings of the
word . . . .  Hornblower struggles unendingly to understand the
meaning of his own responsibility amid the unpredictable and often
terrible circumstances in which he must act."

	I introduced my wife to Forester this year and she has ripped
through the Hornblower saga as well as coming up with novels I had
never heard of. We both have Patrick O'Brien on the list but haven't
read anything as yet. I do get the sense from reviews of O'Brien that
the sea and ships might be the only real point of comparison between
he and Forester. Isn't the relationship between  Aubrey and the Doctor
very important to the stories?

	Keith


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith Morgan		      | Criticism is prejudice made plausible.
kamorgan@athena.mit.edu       |                          H.L. Mencken
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Date: 31 Aug 92 12:51:56 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <BtpKvw.E10@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> msmorris@watsci.waterloo.edu (Mike Morris) writes:
>


>
>(2) You must recognize that Clayton's comment
>was made within the political context of the, er, controversial
>claims of Martin Bernal. Bernal's thesis, as I understand it
>from reading Mary Lefkowitz's and Jasper Griffin's negative
>reviews of Bernal's _Black Athena_, is really much more sensible
>and limited than has been popularized, but the pop
>(caricature) version is that the Greeks didn't invent anything,
>only took it all from the Egyptians, who were black Africans.
>Knowing about this claim that Egyptian civilization was
>really black African certainly made me wonder at first if Michelle
>were not confuddling the Black Athena hypothesis.

Has anyone here read _Black Athena_?  I tried to read it about a year
ago, but I have to admit I never even got past the first couple of
pages. I'd just like to know the thought anyone who read the book
might have about it.

-- 
"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
			-Joseph Beam_
Terrance Heath 
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu