HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: James_J_Kowalczyk@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: Deceptive menu practices
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 21:06:06 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz) writes:
>This is a complaint.  A nice night out at a restaurant that
>came highly recommended was ruined.  The restaurant is Yen's
>Wok on Route 9 in Framingham.  The problem is their menu.
>
>I went with my girlfriend and her daughter.  They keep Kosher.
>That is usually not a problem in Chinese restaurants.  I order 
>Hot and Sour soup.  They order Egg Drop.  We either eat from
>the buffet, or we simply don't order pork and shellfish dishes,
>or anything with oyster sauce.  On menu items we're not familiar
>with, we ask.

If I were keeping Kosher or had other serious dietary restrictions
like an allergy, I would pretty much ask about everything, but of course
this does not necessarily mean you won't still be unpleasantly
surprised (Patron: Does this contain meat? Waiter: No, no meat! Just
Pork!)

>The night started off with a big surprise: the Egg Drop soup
>contained pieces of pork.  Upon a closer look, I guessed that
...
>unacceptable to many people, the menu should have specified "Egg
>Drop Soup with Pork".

Can't recall ever seeing Egg Drop with pork, but it would not surprise
me too much.

>For the rest of our meal, we ordered Lamb Ravioli (Yes!  Some 
>restaurants have this on their menu, and it is a welcome sight
>Chicken With Vegetables, and from the section marked "Vegetables
>and Bean Curd" we orderd Dry Cooked String Beans.  
>
>The last item contained ground pork.  Again, I don't recall ever 
>seeing pork mixed in with Dry Cooked String Beans before.  Another
>item in the same section of the menu is marked "with or without
>pork".  So why wasn't this one?  Sure, I would have known that
>the Home Style Bean Curd contained pork, because every restaurant
>and every cook book does it that way, but lots of people wouldn't
>know that, just as I didn't know that this restaurant puts pork
>in the Dry Cooked String Beans.  Given the much larger group of
>people who, expecting a vegetable dish, are distressed by any 
>meat at all, I consider this to be a far more serious problem than
>that of the soup.

Green beans with ground pork is the most common way I have seen
this dish (and I have only sometimes seen it specified as being 
with meat).  One of the restaurants near me no longer adds pork, and
I asked them why not.  They said that too many people expected it
to be a vegetarian dish, but that if I asked for it with ground pork,
they would make it that way for me.

...
>
>Comments?
>
>--rich

Jim Kowalczyk             James_J_Kowalczyk@cup.portal.com
Andover, MA
From: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: tex-mex west of 128
Date: 19 Nov 92 18:38:59 GMT
Reply-To: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
Distribution: ne
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: ansible.pubs.stratus.com

Ken Koellner writes
>In article <JPT.92Nov19091734@telecaster.think.com> jpt@telecaster.think.com  
(James P. Taylor) writes (asking about tex-mex):
>Definitely avoid Alcapulco on Highland St. (rt 9) in Worcester.

I find the Alcapulco very erratic.  I've had some good meals there, and
I've had some bad meals there.  Its main virtues are that it is cheap, and
you can BYOB.

>Also, avoid Margritaville downtown unless you insist on behaving like
>a yuppie and paying too much money for drinks with almost no liquor in
>them.  I don`t think much of their food, service, attitude, prices
>either.

Margaritaville closed over 18 months ago.  It was replaced by a
so-so pizza place called the Hard Times Cafe, which closed after about
a year.  Recently, a brand new Tex-Mex place opened there called The
Laughing Coyote.  We stopped there for appetizers.  It's a little
pricey, but the appetizers we had were different.  Still, I'd reccomend
Santa Fe and Willy's over Laughing Coyote, unless you prefer yuppie-chow.

*  NeXT: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com * GEnie:  Laurie.Mann  *
*Bush, Quayle, Perot---We Said NO! * We Voted for CHANGE in '92!*
***** "Hollywood still doesn't get it." Dan Quayle, 9/21/92 *****
* "No Dan, YOU still don't get it."  American Voters, Fall 1992 *
***********    Gee, do you think he gets it now????   ***********
Newsgroups: ne.food
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Subject: Re: Deceptive menu practices
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Distribution: ne
Date: 18 Nov 92 13:40:54

In article <BxtHKM.6Ao@world.std.com> rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz) writes:

   ... They keep Kosher.  That is usually not a problem in Chinese
   restaurants.  I order Hot and Sour soup.  They order Egg Drop.  We
   either eat from the buffet, or we simply don't order pork and
   shellfish dishes, or anything with oyster sauce.  On menu items
   we're not familiar with, we ask.

As I understand the Kosher laws, it is pretty much impossible to eat
Kosher in anything but an explicitly Kosher or vegetarian
establishment, since there is a concept of ritual contamination which
has nothing to do with secular standards of cleanliness.  Also, you
say your friend avoids pork and shellfish, but any other meat is
likely to be non-kosher as well.  And the cooking wine (used in many
dishes) is presumably non-kosher.  Alright, perhaps your friend has a
more relaxed interpretation: avoid any noticeable amount of pork or
shellfish.

This is feasible, however it is unlikely that simply avoiding dishes
with pork or shellfish in their names will succeed in this goal.  In
particular, the broth used for soups in Chinese restaurants is usually
made with whatever meat scraps are handy: mostly chicken carcasses,
but also pork bones.  That's certainly the way I make Chinese soup
base at home.  Other possible problems: dried shrimp are a
commonly-used flavoring, as is oyster sauce (even if it is not the
major flavoring); lard is a possible cooking fat (although vegetable
oil is cheaper and usually considered more healthful, lard tastes
better in some cases).

   We... left feeling that this restaurant was ignoring the needs of
   many customers.

   Comments?

There is a vegetarian Chinese restaurant in Boston's Chinatown.  If
they don't serve shellfish (do Chinese vegetarians consider shellfish
to be meat or not?), you have some chance of a pretty-much Kosher
Chinese meal there.  There are also Kosher Chinese restaurants in New
York.  Apparently there are enough customers who care in New York, but
not here.

I think you are being grossly unfair to the restaurant.  Kosherness is
not part of the Chinese cooking culture, and as for me, I'd rather the
cook stay faithful to his Chinese heritage than try to inform himself
of the needs (or rather desires) of American vegetarians,
kosher-keepers, health-nuts, etc.

	-s
Newsgroups: ne.food
From: cmr@world.std.com (Charles M Richmond)
Subject: Re: Ethiopian restaurant
Keywords: Ethiopian, Boston
Organization: Integrated International Systems Corp. One Longfellow Place, Suite 3309, Boston, Ma.
Distribution: ne
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 12:43:47 GMT

twm@world.std.com (thomas W martin) writes:

>Does anyone know of a good Ethiopian restaurent in the Boston area?  There
>is one listed in the phone book at 333 Mass. ave.  Has anyone tried it and
>what's your opinion. Thanks.

Asmara (on Mass Ave) is not bad , but it is certainly not the best. Both
the Blue Nile (Comm Ave 7313833) and Addis Red Sea (Tremont St) are better.
The atmosphere in Addis Red Sea is the most authentic and the food in the Blue
Nile is marginally better. All three are acceptable , only the Blue Nile has
a parking lot, on street parking is possible at Addis , you would have to
find a spot at Asmara (not easy).  Access to Asmara (Red Line) and the Blue
Nile (Green Line) is possible by T. I do not know how public transport is to
Addis as it is well south of downtown.

Charlie

P.S. The Blue Nile is the only place that has real enjara made from imported
Ethiopian grain, but they rarely serve it ... special occasions and special
people. The time that I was served it was after helping with their license 
and attending with one of the Ethiopian royal family. 
-- 
*****************************************************************************
*  Charles Richmond 	Integrated International Systems Corporation        *
*  cmr@world.std.com	(Temporary) cmr@koneko.shr.dec.com		    *
*  Specializing in UNIX, X, Image Processing, and Communications.           *
From: kaz@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Karen Fegley)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: I *need* a diner
Date: 19 Nov 92 14:20:11 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pogo.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Nov16.211617.1@hamp.hampshire.edu> jyaruss@hamp.hampshire.edu  
writes:
> Help!!!
> I've lived in NY state for the past 18 years of my life and I am now at 
> Hampshire college in Amherst. I haven't been to a real diner since I've been
> here and I'm going into cheese fries withdrawal.
> If anyone knows of a *real* diner - you know - eight page menus, open 24  
hours,
> booths with crummy juke boxes at each table, cheese fries, etc. - that is
> is the area - please, please, please, please tell me about it.
> Thank you greatly.
> -Jordan

I got more email requests for the information on Coffee Cup Publi-
cations than I anticipated, so I've decided to post it for anyone
else who might be interested.  It's nice to hear that so many
people like diners!
 
     Coffee Cup Publications
     29 Hunt Street
     Watertown, MA 02172

     Phone: (617) 926-5936

The newsletter is called Roadside; it is a quarterly.  The maps
are called Diner Finders.  The publisher is Randolph J. Garbin.

Happy dining,
Karen
From: kaz@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Karen Fegley)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: I *need* a diner
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:35:19 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pogo.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Nov16.211617.1@hamp.hampshire.edu> jyaruss@hamp.hampshire.edu  
writes:
> Help!!!
> I've lived in NY state for the past 18 years of my life and I am now at 
> Hampshire college in Amherst. I haven't been to a real diner since I've been
> here and I'm going into cheese fries withdrawal.
> If anyone knows of a *real* diner - you know - eight page menus, open 24  
hours,
> booths with crummy juke boxes at each table, cheese fries, etc. - that is
> is the area - please, please, please, please tell me about it.
> Thank you greatly.
> -Jordan

I cannot recommend any specific diners in your area but I can suggest a
GOOD source of information.  Coffee Cup Publications in Watertown publishes
a quarterly newsletter called "Roadside" that is all about diners, with a
focus on those in New England.  They also publish "Diner Finder" maps with
all the known diner locations in a given New England state and notes about
each diner.  They haven't finished the maps for all six states but they do
have a Massachusetts one; we've got a copy and we take it along whenever we
go on a day trip somewhere in Mass.  It has been very useful.  I think they
have also done New Hampshire and Connecticut Diner Finders so far.

If you are interested, send me email and I will dig up the address for
Coffee Cup Publications.  (It's at home and I am at work...)

Cheers,
Karen (kaz@vineland.pubs.stratus.com)
From: trb@ima.isc.com (Andrew Tannenbaum)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: Deceptive menu practices
Date: 17 Nov 92 20:38:24 GMT
Reply-To: trb@ima (Andrew Tannenbaum)
Distribution: ne
Organization: Beth trb, Baruchline, MA, USA

In article <BxtHKM.6Ao@world.std.com> rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz) writes:
> I went with my girlfriend and her daughter.  They keep Kosher.
> That is usually not a problem in Chinese restaurants.

The deception here is that you think you can get a kosher meal in a
Chinese restaurant (unless, maybe, if it is a vegetables-only
restauant).  Lard is a very common cooking fat in Chinese cooking, even
if there is no other pork in a dish.  Pork is also a very common
flavoring in Chinese cooking, even if it isn't the featured
ingredient.  Not to mention that other meats (even potentially kosher
meats like beef and lamb) are used which certainly haven't been
prepared in accordance with kosher-laws, all of which render dishes
non-kosher, and they render the utensils non-kosher which in turn
render all the food they touch non-kosher.

If you have physical dietary needs, you can make them known to the cook
and they might be served - no meat, no dairy, no wheat, no salt, etc.
Realize that kosher food doesn't mean healthy food, it doesn't just
mean "from a restricted set of ingredients."  The rules aren't just
common sense that you can expect a typical restaurant to follow, you
can't follow the normal path and keep them.  You cannot expect a normal
Chinese restaurant to adhere to the Jewish ritual requirements involved
in serving a kosher meal.

If you want kosher food at a restaurant, go to a kosher restaurant.
If you want only want meat-free food, ask for that, and don't bring
the question of "kosher" into it.

	Andrew Tannenbaum   Brookline, MA
Newsgroups: ne.food
From: nishii@cass.ma02.bull.com (Naka Ishii)
Subject: Re: I *need* a diner
Organization: Bull World Wide Information Systems Inc.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:47:54 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.211617.1@hamp.hampshire.edu> jyaruss@hamp.hampshire.edu writes:
>Help!!!
>I've lived in NY state for the past 18 years of my life and I am now at 
>Hampshire college in Amherst. I haven't been to a real diner since I've been
>here and I'm going into cheese fries withdrawal.
>If anyone knows of a *real* diner - you know - eight page menus, open 24 hours,
>booths with crummy juke boxes at each table, cheese fries, etc. - that is
>is the area - please, please, please, please tell me about it.
>Thank you greatly.
>-Jordan

I haven't been there in ages, but Miss Flo's in Florence (section of 
Northampton) has the classic diner atmosphere.  Don't know if they
have cheese fries though -- what are they? I have had good swordfish
steak dinners there.  Doubt if it is open 24 hrs.

There's also the BP diner at the junctions of 116 and 91 (South
Deerfield? Sunderland?  I never know)  Another classic diner, but
more of the truck stop variety.  Miss Flo's is more small-town.
I've actually never eaten at the BP, but it really is a truck stop,
so it might have the level of grease you desire.  Don't know about
hours there either, but aren't truck stops all 24 hours?
From: kgorman@star-trek.bbn.com (Karen Gorman)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: Deceptive menu practices
Date: 18 Nov 1992 14:12:42 GMT
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
Distribution: ne
Reply-To: kgorman@BBN.COM (Karen Gorman)
NNTP-Posting-Host: archive.bbn.com


In article <Bxw029.C7E@world.std.com> rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz)
writes:

|>Excuse me, but I'm no stranger to Chinese restaurants or cuisine.  However
|>the point of another poster, that there are many many variations on the
|>same dish is well taken.  So is the point made by almost everyone that
|>the only way to be (mostly) safe is to ask up front.  I pointed out in
|>my post that we normally do ask up front, if we're not ordering standard
|>fare items.  Obviously, we erred on the string beans.  But I don't accept
|>that about the soup.  In thirty years, and probably hundreds of 
|>different Chinese restaurants, including many different styles, I have
|>never seen pork in the Egg Drop soup.  

There's a first time for everything, and your experience just proved that
adage.

|>I guess I was deflecting blame too much from our waitress by putting it
|>on the menu rather than on her.  We sent the soup back, but then she 
|>brought the string beans with pork.  So the waitress must share the blame
|>for the ruined evening.

I find your reasoning to be sorely lacking in any logic, and your arrogance
most annoying.

|>As to whether the quality of our evening was or was not ruined, you weren't
|>there.  We were hungry.  My girlfriend's daughter was hungry.  The first
|>item of food they brought for us could not be eaten.  Consider the effect
|>of putting a bowl of soup in front of a child and then having to have the
|>waitress take it away.  

Next time do your homework first and no one will have to suffer.

|>Thanks to all for the comments.  I probably *will* ask up front about
|>everything from here on.  Doesn't mean I'll think it's right that I have
|>to.

If you want to receive dietary correct food either go to a Kosher resturant
or simply ask what the ingredients are, you and your dining companions are
the ones with the dietary restrictions.    If you don't practice either of
these suggestions in the future, you will most definitely run into the same
problem again and will not have learned anything from this experience.

kg@bbn.com
From: shari@omar.WPI.EDU (Shari Deiana)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: I *need* a diner
Date: 17 Nov 1992 15:05:20 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: omar.wpi.edu


Well, it's an hour away, but Worcester has quite a few diners.  I can think of
3 off the top of my head, The Miss Worcester, the one near Kelly Square, and
the one on Shrewsbury St. (help with names, anyone?)  The Miss Worcester has
great breakfasts, but is closed after lunch I believe.  The one near Kelly
Square used to be open quite late.



Newsgroups: ne.food
From: cstewart@athena.mit.edu (Charles Stewart)
Subject: Re: Ethiopian restaurant
Keywords: Ethiopian, Boston
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: ne
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:51:24 GMT


If the Ethiopian restaurant at 333 Mass Ave is the one I'm thinking about
(across from Symphony Hall), it's fine, but I'm no expert on Ethiopian
food.  The surroundings were minimalist--formica tables, etc.  But, we
enjoyed the food very much and would go back if all we want is good food
in a hurry.
From: kvk@questor.sw.stratus.com (Ken Koellner)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Re: More deceptive menu practices
Date: 20 Nov 92 20:12:28 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: questor.sw.stratus.com

In article <7460@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com> blamb@hri.com (Bill Lambert) writes:
>
>...
>But there are other deceptive menu practices that really
>rankle me. One is listing a standard, well-known dish
>or drink on the menu, but upon ordering, that item comes
>with some non-standard rendition....

I ordered a Black&Tan at what was actually a really nice Irish
Pub-style restaurant.  Fortunately, I asked how they made it for they
normally make theirs with Guiness and (ack) Budweiser (double-ack,
cough, cough).  Can you believe that! And when they have Bass on
tap???  I naturally made sure that my drink be made with Guiness Stout
and Bass Ale (although Harp is also quite acceptable).  I also
suggested tha waitress tell the bartender to change his default
recipe.  Can you believe that this place would actually mix Guiness
Stout with (gack) Bud?

I don't recall the name of this restaurant.  I really liked the place.
It's in a more-or-less downtownish are of some suburban location, West
and maybe a little South of Boston.  I think it's near but not in
Needam, maybe a little closer to Boston.  I remember it being near or
on some sort of canal or river or something.  The place had great
Irish food and a lot of atmosphere.  I just can't believe the bad
taste of their bartender.


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     (Sig down for repairs.  Please stayed tuned for new, improved sig.)
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Newsgroups: ne.food
From: san@world.std.com (Stephen h An)
Subject: what's the deal on Mary Chung?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: ne
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:23:31 GMT

PLEASE! I am only seeking info regarding MC's re-opening status, please
spare all opinions about the joint.

So, what's the deal? does anyone know? I drove by 599 Mass. Ave. and saw no
signs of progress.

thanks,

   - Steve.




Newsgroups: ne.food
From: mguyott@eriador.prime.com (M. Guyott)
Subject: Portuguese kale soup recipe wanted.
Followup-To: ne.food
Organization: Prime Computer R&D
Distribution: ne
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:00:11 GMT


The subject says it all.  Does anyone have a recipe for Portuguese kale
soup?  Of does anyone know of a book in which I might find such a recipe?

I am looking for something that is as "authentic" as possible.  I guess
by "authentic" I mean a recipe that is used by someone who at some time
in the past or present actually used the recipe in Portugal.

Oh heck, if you have a kale soup recipe please send it.  If you can give
me any "history" of where you got the recipe that would be appreciated but
is not required!

Thanks for any help.

Marc
----
Two of the worst things we teach our children are that a knowledge of science
is nice but not necessary, and a knowledge of sex is necessary but not nice.

Marc Guyott              Constellation Software, Inc.          (508) 620-2800
                         Framingham, Mass. 01701 USA                Ext. 3135
mguyott@primerd.prime.com       ...!{uunet, decwrl}!primerd.prime.com!mguyott
mguyott@eriador.prime.com       ...!{uunet, decwrl}!eriador.prime.com!mguyott
Newsgroups: ne.food
From: heiser@ferrari.nmc.ed.ray.com (Bill Heiser)
Subject: Re: Deceptive menu practices
Organization: Equipment Division, Raytheon Company
Distribution: ne
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 17:42:25 GMT

In article <1ebb29INNd4@bigboote.WPI.EDU> llew@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Lok C. Lew Yan Voon) writes:
>i'm "chinese", i've looked at a few books, i've eaten at dozens
>of restaurants around the whole, i've only once seen some dishes
>cooked the way i learned them. note also that there are billions

Have you ever been to Yangtzee River Restaurant in Littleton or
Lexington?  They have nice fresh food that they claim is prepared 
in an authentic way (they have it categorized by various regions
of China).

Do you agree at its authenticity?

-- 
* Happiness is a hot boiled lobster with drawn butter, a side dish of hot     *
* fresh steamers with melted butter & a hot corn on the cob with butter & salt*
Work: heiser@TDWR.ED.RAY.COM
Home: bill@unixland.natick.ma.us  Public Access Unix/USENET 508-655-3848
Newsgroups: ne.food
From: rogers@rosencrantz.osf.org (Andrew Rogers)
Subject: Re: I *need* a diner
Organization: HICAM/OSD
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:14:50 GMT

In article <1ebagnINNgo4@transfer.stratus.com> kaz@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Karen Fegley) writes:
>I cannot recommend any specific diners in your area but I can suggest a
>GOOD source of information.  Coffee Cup Publications in Watertown publishes
>a quarterly newsletter called "Roadside" that is all about diners...

Here's their address, courtesy of the on-line Factsheet Five:

	%Title:  Roadside  Volume 2 Number 1
	%Descr:  For those who appreciate the diners of the Northeast.  Not so
	much for the food, but the architecture, the neon, the ambiance of
	eating in a converted tram.  They're enthusiastic about that neon!
	%Info:   $12.00 a year (free in selected diners) to Coffee Cup
	Publications  29 Hunt Street  Watertown  MA  02172  10 pages, tabloid.
	email ROADSIDER@aol.com

And while we're on the subject, Gotham City Graphics sells a line of cool
diner/coffee/Spam t-shirts.  You can request their catalog from

	Gotham City Graphics
	104 Church St. #15
	Burlington, VT  05401

AWR
old fart at play
From: ed@kronos.com (Ed Baker)
Newsgroups: ne.food
Subject: Great Spicy String Beans w/o Pork (Re: Deceptive menu practices)
Date: 18 Nov 92 04:54:13 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Kronos Inc. / Waltham, MA
Disclaimer: This posting is a personal opinion and not that of Kronos Inc.

If you want great spicy string beans with Schezuan pickle (and no pork),
try them at Yangtze River restaurant in Lexington.  As long as you're there,
also try the Hacked Chicken and Yangtze Special Spicy Beef ($$) dishes.  Oh,
the Spicy Bean Curd Schezuan Style is also recommended (no pork).

The sauteed spicy green beans across the street at Peking Garden are made
with pork and are also very good.  The two dishes are very different.

Yum.  I'm going tomorrow night!

-Ed
Newsgroups: ne.food