Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 14:52:03 -0500
Reply-To:     Ioannis REKLEITIS <yiannis@BINKLEY.CS.MCGILL.CA>
From:         Ioannis REKLEITIS <yiannis@BINKLEY.CS.MCGILL.CA>
Subject:      Forward mail apo to Lewnida Iraklioth
Comments: To: HELLAS@brownvm.brown.edu

O Leonidas mou esteile ena mail kai to kanw forward sthn Lista:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>\
# On Wed, 4 Nov 1992 15:06:50 -0500
# Ioannis REKLEITIS <yiannis@BINKLEY.CS.MCGILL.CA> said:

> O nomos autos einai entelws xalia kai mpazei nera apo mia seira
> meries merika apla problhmata:
> 1) Autarxikh strofh me suggentrwsh eksousiwn stous kathigites
> prwths bathmidas kai asfuxtiko elegxo apo to upourgeio.

Edw poY kollas: sto oti yparxei sygkentrwsh ejoysiwn 'h sto oti
tis exoyn oi kauhghtes a' baumidos? Sygkentrwsh ejoysiwn yphrxe
kai prin. To PASOK ta'xe kala me toys epikoyroys kai arketoys
anaplhrwtes kai etsi edwse ejoysies s'aytoys. H ND ta xei kala
me toys kauhghtes a', ki etsi s'aytoys dinei ejoysies twra.
Giati oloi poy shmera diamartyrontai gia sygkentrwsh ejoysiwn
sta xeria twn kauhghtwn a' den diamartyrhuhkan otan oi ejoysies
sygkentrwnontan sta xeria twn epikoyrwn kai anaplhrwtwn;

Epishs ua prepei na eimaste poly prosektikoi otan miloyme gia
asfyktiko elegxo (to X apo poY to bgazeis sto "asfyxtiko" enas ueos
jerei). To 1982 h tote kybernhsh mhnyse sta AEI kai se polles
dhmosies yphresies na mhn agorasoyn PC prokeimenoy na mhn
ayjhuei h ejarthsh ths xwras apo tis HPA. Aytoi poy shmera
milane gia asfyktiko elegxo, tote kanan thn papia.

> 2) Kathierwsh 2 kuklwn spoudwn kai me auto ton tropo parapera
> salamopoihsh twn foithtwn kai ousiastikh dunatothta elegxou tou
> artithmou twn ptuxiouxwn apo "periergous" kathigites aplws me
> ena mathima. Aukshsh twn xronwn spoudwn me auto ton tropo.

"periergoi kauhghtes", "oysiastikh dynatothta elegxoy" kai
alla eytrapela. Otan omws zhtoyntai stoixeia poy na tekmhriwnoyn
tetoies katastaseis prokeimenoy oi fhmes na steriwsoyn ws gegonota
kai na jekinhsoyn kapoies diadikasies, tote kaneis de mila.

> Mesa sto nomo uparxei thesmos na plhrwnontai ta biblia kai o
> upourgos pseudetai asustolos otan dhlwnei oti auto den einai
> megalo eksodo. Akoma einai aithma gia ousiastikh sitish kai
> stegash twn foithtwn. Paragontes pou einai anagkaioi gia na
> mporei na spoudasei mia merida foithtwn.

O uesmos twn dwrean syggrammatwn einai o,ti pio FASISTIKO kai
LA.I.KISTIKO perase pote apo ta ellhnika AEI. Kauierwuhke epi
xoyntas (gia osoys den uymoyntai) kai ypobibase anepanoruwta
thn poiothta ths anwtaths paideias sthn Ellada.

To biblio einai ena pneymatiko loyloydi poy anuei sta bibliopwleia
kai oxi stoys diadromoys twn ypoyrgeiwn opws shmeiwnei ki o Traxanas.

O foithths ua prepei na mporei na dialegei. Otan loipon o idios
foithths kaue bradi dialegei se poio mpar ua t'akoymphsei, as
epilegei kai dyo fores to xrono poia biblia ua agorasei. *OLES*
oi alles xwres me tis opoies antagwmizomaste oikonomika/politika
einai kauysterhmenes kai den exoyn dwrean syggrammata kai mono
emeis eimaste oi ejypnoi dhladh?

> Ara loipon na mhn uparxei forologia na mhn uparxoun koinwnikes
> paroxes!!! Kala to epipedo eufias tou einai kataplhktiko!!

Poyuena o syntakths toy OT den anefere kati tetoio.

> Exei kamia idea o suntakths peri tou ti einai to panepisthmiako
> asulo??? Telika exei idea peri tou ti einai diekdhkhsh 'h mhpws
> epeidh autos sernete kai glufei gia na anebei nomizei oti mono
> etsi ekselhsete h koinwnia???

O syntakths isws exei. Esy kai oi katalhcies omws? Gia dokimase
to parakatw "multiple choice test":

1. Poios kauierwse to panepisthmiako asylo;
   A. O Eleyuerios Benizelos,
   B. O Gewrgios Papandreoy,
   C. O Basilias Ouwnas (apo kei bgainei kai to tragoydi stoy
      Ouwna ta xronia opoy Bayaroi xwrofylakoi kanoyn ntoy sto EMP),
   D. H xoynta,
   E. O Karamanlhs,
   C. O Antreas.

Swsth apanthsh: D.

To '71 h diktatorikh kybernhsh twn Auhnwn katw apo thn genikh katakraygh
ths dieunoys koinhs gnwmhs gia katapiesh twn anurwpinwn dikaiwmatwn se
mia ypokritikh prospaueia epideijhs kalhs diagwghs metajy allwn kauierwse
kai dyo akratws la.i.kistika metra: (a) dwrean panepisthmiaka sygrammata
kai (b) panepisthmiako asylo (to opoio dyo xronia argotera dixws
distagmo katelyse).

Ektote kamia kybernhsh kai kanena politiko komma (oyte kan to KKE) den
zhthsan thn katarghsh aytwn twn epaisxyntwn xoyntikwn "eyergethmatwn".

To pneyma toy panepisthmiakoy asyloy ua prepei na einai h diafylajh ths
omalhs leitoyrgias ths akadhma.i.khs koinothtos. Epi xoyntas h omalh
leitoyrgia apeiloyntan apo ta katastaltika organa toy kratoys kai gia ayto
to panepisthmiako asylo apagoreye thn eisodo ths astynomias sto panepisthmio.

Sto idio pneyma shmera: einai h astynomia ayth poy diatarassei thn omalh
leitoyrgia ths panepisthmiakhs koinothtas? Oxi fysika. Eirwnia ths tyxhs:
oi diekdikoyntes thn isxyropoihsh toy panepisthmiakoy asyloy einai aytoi
poy to katapatoyn.


> Einai gnwsto ths pash oti h fwtia mphke apo eksw eite apo
               ^^^
> aganakthsmenous polites (etheathisan merikoi sto panspoudastiko

Ax Iwannh, oi katalhceis se maranan meta :-)

Telos pantwn. Ekeino to "ths pash" kane to "ths pash"/2 dioti oi alloi
misoi pisteyoyn pws h fwtia mphke apo mesa.

> Auto giati den to sxoliazei o kurios einai paralogo na
> enddiaferontai oi aurianoi episthmones gia tis sunthhkes
> eleutherias tou logou sthn xwra tous. Oi 5 ths OSE (kai oxi tou
> OSE) diwkontai giati ebgalan ena biblio me apopseis diaforetikes
> me ths epishmes.

Mono poy tyxainei oi symperifora twn katalhciwn na mhn toys
dikaiologei ton titlo ayrianwn episthmonwn. Twra ta peri
synuhkwn eleyuerias, asto kalytera: dhladh h eleyueria twn
ypoloipwn foithtwn poy ueloyn na parakoloyuhsoyn mauhmata ti
ginetai? Mia tetoia eleyueria einai elleipobarhs fainetai gia
toys ayrianoys episthmones oi opoioi entoytois ektimoyn thn
eleyueria logoy poy edikaioynto oi 5 ths OSE. Lampra!

> Nomizw oti einai logiko an kopoun kai ta 90% twn foithtwn na
> uparxei kapoio problhma.

Symfwnw apolytws. To na kopei ena postosto > 60% s'ena mauhma einai
problhma toy kauhghth, oxi twn foithtwn. Omws apo thn allh to na zhtoyme
na kobetai ena pososto < 5% einai to idio paralogo. Anti oi fwsthres ths
gewponikhs na zhtoyn megisto pososto aporrichs 5%, as diekdikhsoyn me
hpio tropo prwta thn epanalhch ths ejetastikhs otan to pososto apotyxias
einai > 60% epi twn foithtwn poy ejetazontai sto mauhma gia prwth fora.
(ayto efarmozetai epityxws sto Fysiko Iwanninwn - ole! - exei arxisei
na pernaei kai se alla tmhmata toy idioy panepisthmioy, dixws na exei
ginei pote kamia dynamikh kinhtopoihsh).

Epeidh to uema isws na endiaferei ki alloys, ua ektimoysa an ekanes to
keimeno ayuto ena forward sthn HELLAS.

Filika,
Leonidas

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