HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: Asthma, adult onset
Date: 23 Dec 1992 18:13:19 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: antizen.ebay.sun.com

In article 9067@netcom.com, rkaplan@netcom.com (Richard Kaplan) writes:
> In article <1h7qpuINNk5q@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM>
>  greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
> 
> >As a hopeful future PA, I'm absolutely an advocate of Western medicine's
> >modern emergency care. I do hold serious doubts as to the effectiveness
> >of Western med. in terms of long-term health and healing. It's a shame
> >that the AMA has taken such an unreasonable stand against alternative
> >medicine despite years, even centuries of proven effectiveness.
> 
> What proof?
> 
> There is no doubt that Western medicine has much 
> improvement to do in terms of research methodology
> and organization of its medical literature.  However,
> the clear and proud distinction of Western medicine is 
> that its methods are under constant revision/improvement
> due to a continual burdern of proof based upon public
> scrutiny of published objective scientific data subject
> to peer review -- something which, almost by definition,
> alternative medicine does not do.
> 
> 
> For an excellent discussion of this, see "A Critique of the 
> Rationale for Cancer Treatment With Coffee Enemas and 
> Diet" by Saul Green, PhD in JAMA 268(22):3224-3227.  I 
> will be very interested in your comments.
> 
> On the other hand, if you can reference any scientifically
> sound studies of alternative therapies which you feel
> are inappropriately rejected by traditional medicine,
> please provide appropriate references to the "proof."
> No anecdotal reports or testimonials, please.  
> -- 
> Richard Kaplan M.D.           Medical Software Exchange BBS
> 806 2nd St. SW # 104          (507) 281-1989 14,400 HST
> Rochester, MN  55902          (507) 281-1689 Voice
> PP-ASEL-IA     N4VRB          rkaplan@mayo.edu|netcom.netcom.com  


I cannot provide any documented proof of anything and I do not
have the time to try.  

The sole intent of my original posting was to share my own personal
experience (or testimonial).

I now state, for the record, that you have won this challenge
and shall win all other challenges in the future as well as any
arguments which may result from any posting of mine.

Of course I'm sure you won't be offended if I don't ask you to be my 
Doctor, Dr. Kaplan, ignoring for the moment the fact that you're 
practicing in MN and I'm in CA.

Greg

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski)
Subject: Choosing a practitioner (Was: Clinical Ecologists?)
Organization: The Information Deli - via Netcom / San Jose, California
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:14:37 GMT

In <1h5ni3INN9l1@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> fish@ecst.csuchico.edu
(Kevin Haddock) writes:

>Also, what is the best way to find a holistic doctor in my area?
>I have heard that sometimes cyropractors have more knowledge of this
>area.  I don't really want to just randomly as doctors in my area because
>I'm sure the response they will give me will be something like: "Hey,
>you're in luck, I'm a holistic doctor, oh and don't forget to take your
>anti-biotics!"

The problem is that "holistic" has become so overused and misused that
it's really not descriptive anymore.  Looking for an "alternative
practitioner" would probably narrow your search down to what you want.

Alternative practitioners (chiropractors, homeopathists, etc.) in general
will be more "holistic" than a typical medical doctor (though there are
significant exceptions to that rule on both sides!).

What I'd suggest, though, is choosing a few particular therapies that
interest you or that you feel might be effective, and looking for
practitioners of those therapies.  For that, you can contact national
organizations, etc.  to see who's listed in your area.

Also, ask around at health food stores, alternative bookstores, look
in any local alternative newspapers, etc.

Here's a quick summary of things I look for in *any* sort of health
care professional:

 - qualified to provide care;
 - properly licensed, certified, or affiliated (as necessary);
 - willing to provide references (from patients or other practitioners)
   attesting to practioner's skills;
 - able to determine if a different therapy is more appropriate
   and willing to refer patient to another specialist if necessary;
 - communicative with patient about diagnosis and treatment;
 - open to second opinions from other qualified health care practioners;
 - open to discussion about other avenues of treatment;
 - charges reasonable fees.

Pete
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: patty@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu (Patty Haley)
Subject: echinacea
Organization: Johns Hopkins Univ. Welch Medical Library
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:39:53 GMT

Scott wrote about my original email:

In article <1992Dec22.141523.23772@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu> patty@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu (Patty Haley) writes:
>
>I use echinacea that is *NOT* distilled from alcohol--the liquid kind.

What do you mean?  You have three basic choices:

1. The dried herb.  You can buy it from Indiana Botanical Supply, or you
   can buy it (at extremely high prices) in capsules from a number of
   suppliers.  Or, you can grow it at home.

2. A tea made from the dried herb.  For echinacea this doesn't work well
   because the active ingredients aren't all that soluble in water.
   You can buy a concentrated infusion, which is effectively the same thing.

3. A tincture in alcohol.  Soak the herb (dried or fresh) in grain alcohol
   for a week or so, then pour off the dark fluid.

None of these are "distilled from alcohol."  The latter two are liquid.
--scott

For anyone interested, I recently took some plates of echinacea extract.
There are three large bands corresponding to alkaloids of some sort, lots
of different proteins, and some kind of sugar alcohol.  Since the sugar
alcohol is very soluble in water, I assume that's not the active ingredient
but I haven't started taking density sections yet to check out any of the
other ones.  If there's anyone else out there with decent electrophoresis

_________________________________________________________________________

I meant closer to the lines of #3, except that the echinacea is not
in alcohol.  Some companies can only compress (or whatever it is
that they do) the echinacea through an alcohol base, which is why
they tell you to put it in hot/warm water before taking (so that
the alcohol will burn off).  The liquid echinacea that I use is
concentrated, so only 5-7 drops are needed.

-Patty 
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: bsimon@elvis.stsci.edu (Bernie Simon)
Subject: Re: Cold and Flu treatment- questions
Organization: None. This saves me from writing a disclaimer.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 18:25:45 GMT

In article <29DEC199212044458@wccf.mit.edu> buzz@wccf.mit.edu 
(Sheila Gay Buzzee) writes:

     Hello all.  I am new to the conference, and if I have missed discussion 
   of remedies for colds and flu please send responses to me, not the net, 
   since I don't want to create repeditive postings.

     That said, what seems to work for colds and/or the flu?  I have a cold 
   now, and this is the first one in years and I can't remember what made 
   them go away in the past.  I have the standard head congestion, sneezing, 
   sore throat, and cough.  So far using a vaporizer at night and drinking 
   herbal tea has provided slight relief, but I'd really like to stop sneezing
    and blowing my nose before I don't have any skin left!

     What works for you?

     Thanks,
       Sheila Buzzee

The trouble with many alternative treatments for colds is that they
don't work very well unless you take them at the first sign of a cold.
One exception is homeopathic medicines which seem to work well even if
the cold is well established. So my suggestion would be to try a
homeopathic combination remedy for colds and flus. For the sake of
other people who might come down with a cold, here is a list of
suggested treatments which may help. Perhaps others can suggest
additions to this list. There are no guarantees that these treatments,
or any others, will work. Please see a physician if a cold worsens
significantly or persists for more than a week.

Vitamin C - 2 grams 3 times a day
Zinc Gluconate lozenges - 20 mg. lozenge every two hours
Garlic - 2 cloves at first sign of cold
Echinacea - As directed on label
Homeopathic medicine - As directed on label

You should be able to find all of these (except maybe the garlic) at
your local health food store.

--
Bernie Simon	(bsimon@stsci.edu)		ad astra per aspera

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: gch5562@usl.edu (Harrison Garrison C)
Subject: Cold + Flu (EXPERIMENTAL)
Organization: University 
Distribution: all
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 18:19:03 GMT



Has anyone heard of the experimental procedures for cold and flu prevention
and eradication distributed by G.B.D.?

Been hearing some interesting rumors about it!

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark Sandrock)
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 14:52:45 GMT

lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:

>The delutions I've heard of being used in homeopathic medicine don't leave
>even a single molecule of the substance!

>If there was some substance left then it would make sense to ask about
>its effects.

Let me see... "I don't understand how it can work, therefore it can't work!"

How very "scientific" of a view. It's sure to impress many people nowadays!

The same sort of argument is used to "refute" astrology as well.

A convenient excuse for not considering the evidence, is all it is.

Mark Sandrock
-- 
Univ of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign	  'The measure of mental health
Chemical Sciences Computing Services	  is the disposition to find good
505 S. Mathews Ave./Urbana, IL 61801	  everywhere.'
Email: sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu		       -RWE
Xref: sparky misc.health.alternative:42 sci.med:22985
From: fish@ecst.csuchico.edu (Kevin Haddock)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,sci.med
Subject: Re: Orthomolecular Approaches to Medicine
Date: 22 Dec 92 22:26:02 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <1992Dec22.191048.12457@netcom.com> noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:
>Hello,
>
>I've seen the term "Orthomolecular" used by several medical doctors.  From
>the small amount of information I've seen, Orthomolecular medicine *apparently*
>focuses on the role of nutrient/micronutrient balance in the body on health,
>and any imbalance can lead (or aggravate) various illnesses.
>
>Is this a correct definition of Orthomolecular medicine?  Are medical doctors
>who claim that specialty considered quacks by the orthodox medical
>establishment?  Is there a diplomate in Orthomolecular medicine?
>
>Just curious.

I'm not sure but I think one of the Nobel prises won by Linus Pauling
was for the discovery of orthomolecular medicine.  Although he does
extensive work with nutrients I think the term has to do with chemical
structure.  I think he did some work on refracting x-rays off crystal
lattices, discovered, and mapped the 3-d structure of chemicals.  Hence
the 'tinker-toy' models you see so often.  This allowed us to make
breakthroughs in genetic engineering and numerous other health sciences.

His other Nobel was about stopping the above ground nuclear testing
by proving that the carbon, in the CO2 in the atmosphere, when bombarded
by neutrons would become radio-active, be absorbed by plants, and make
it's way back up the food chain causing disease in humans.

He just about won a third Nobel for discovering the double helix of DNA
but because of his fight against above ground nuclear testing he was
labeled a subversive and not allowed to travel to France where they
had powerful enough electron microscopes to allow him to do his research.
He speculated that DNA had structure something like a rope (which is
pretty close in my opinion!).

If anyone has more precise information I would love to hear it.

-Kevin
fish@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

---------
Hackers do it with fewer instructions!

>
>Jon Noring
>
>-- 
>
>Charter Member of the INFJ Club.
>
>Now, if you're just dying to know what INFJ stands for, be brave, e-mail me,
>and I'll send you some information.  It WILL be worth the inquiry, I think.
Xref: sparky misc.health.alternative:131 sci.med:23054
From: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,sci.med
Subject: Re: Orthomolecular Approaches to Medicine
Date: 24 Dec 1992 01:58:56 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center and Reptile Farm
NNTP-Posting-Host: grissom.larc.nasa.gov

In article <PHR.92Dec22192040@napa.telebit.com> phr@telebit.com (Paul Rubin) writes:
>    [Linus Pauling] just about won a third Nobel for discovering the
>    double helix of DNA but because of his fight against above ground
>    nuclear testing he was labeled a subversive and not allowed to
>    travel to France where they had powerful enough electron
>    microscopes to allow him to do his research.  He speculated that
>    DNA had structure something like a rope (which is pretty close in
>    my opinion!).

A. An electron microscope won't tell you a damn thing about
   atomic structure.

B. Pauling was completely on the wrong trail at the time.  Read "The Double
   Helix" by Watson if you want to know the detail of the research.

C. DNA has nothing to do with "orthomolecular medicine."

D. What Pauling wanted to travel abroad for was the use of X-ray
   crystallography equipment.  It wouldn't have done him all that much
   good, since at the time, X-ray diffraction work was almost pure
   voodoo, owing to the difficulty of the mathematics (which are now
   much more easily solved owing to cheap computer time).

--scott
From: bobw@shiva1.cac.washington.edu (Bob Williams)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: Brain Machines
Date: 30 Dec 1992 00:28:12 GMT
Organization: UW Information Systems
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: shiva1.cac.washington.edu

Bruce,

Make sure that you read some consumer reviews.  I vaguely remember reading
an article in Men's Health (?? it could have been something else) within the
last couple of months that reviewed like four on the market.  They were only
willing to stand behind one of them -- one that only did light to alter brain
wave patterns.  It was also one of the cheaper units (?$80) to my suprise
($ doesn't always get you quality, eh?).  I've seen one more expensive unit
in practice that combined light and sound and was impressed.  I haven't used
one of these units over time, however.

My impression of these type of machines is that they are an *adjunct* to
meditation.  Have you tried sitting quietly once or twice a day, and just
letting your mind 'tell you what you need to know' (Louise Hay technique)?

--Bob
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu
Subject: RE: Dry-eye/Dry-mouth syndrome (Sjorgen's?)
Organization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:37:15 GMT

In a previous article, jim@egret.ess.harris.com" wrote:
> 
>Hi, I posted this request to sci.med.nutrition before this group
>was formed.  I think this is "a better place to be" for the
>question...
> 
>I hope this group has some ideas.  Have you heard of Dry-eye/dry-mouth 
>syndrome?  Does low relative humidity exacerbate the symptoms?  Is there
>a way to hydrate the body that will alleviate the symptoms, somewhat?
>My friend uses a treatment (added to distilled water) that claims to 
>make the water "wetter" (glycerin-type additive?).  I could collect more
>info if I knew what kind of info would help ... comments???
> 
>-jdm-
> 

I've heard that GLA may help Sjorgen's disease.  GLA is found either in Evening
Primrose oil or in Borage oil (marketed under the name MAX-GLA).  The latter is
less expensive.

Mark London
MRL@NERUS.PFC.MIT.EDU
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu
Subject: RE: How far should Homeopathic medicine be followed?
Organization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 20:32:45 GMT

In a previous article, terryk@encore.com (Terence M. Kelleher) wrote:
> 
>I ask the question in the subject line to those who are believers in
>homeopathic medicine.  I'm not against it, but I have reservations.  
> 
>A couple I know seem to be carrying it too far.  They see only a
>chiropractor for all medical problems.  He does not prescribe any
>non-natural medicines.  They have 2 children, one 2 years and the
>other 4, who have never seen an MD, and have never been given vacines
>or innoculations.

People like this are lost and unlikely to be swayed by logically reasoning, so
try illogical reasoning, i.e. Has this chiropractor been to homeopathy school? 
If not, then he is not adequately trained to prescribe homeopathic medicine.
If you have ever been to a homeopathic doctor, you will find that he usually
will have many more remedies and different dilution quantities than what is
usually found in a health food. He will also probably use herbs for more
serious problems.  (P.s. herbs have been used for centuries, if not millenium,
and are thus much more natural than homeopathy!)

Or how about this reasoning?  Many of the illnesses that we get are not
natural, but are the result of modern living, and natural remedies are not
capable of dealing with them.  Nartural remedies are only effective if we were
living in a truely natural environment, which I'm sure that couple is not.
Children these days are exposed to many more illnesses than they naturally
would be exposed to.

Good luck (you will need it!)

Mark London
MRL@NERUS.PFC.MIT.EDU
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: bsimon@elvis.stsci.edu (Bernie Simon)
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Organization: None. This saves me from writing a disclaimer.
	<BSIMON.92Dec22130323@elvis.stsci.edu>
	<1992Dec22.202855.2659@news.mentorg.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 12:26:56 GMT

Homeopathic dilutions of Cyclosporin have been used to treat AIDS. But
an important point in homeopathy is the individuation of the medicine
to fit the symptoms of the patient. That is, there is no one medicine
that would be used to treat a kind of disease. Some AIDS patients
would get Cyclosporin, others might get Mercury, or some other
medicine depending on their symptoms.
--
Bernie Simon	(bsimon@stsci.edu)		ad astra per aspera

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: sammy@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (Sammy)
Subject: Re: Nutrition
Organization: The Comp Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 16:02:53 GMT

Clover,

I'd suggest you get one of Dr. John A. McDougall's books,
either The McDougall Plan or The McDougall Program: 12 Days
to Dynamic Health.

Dr. McDougall recommends a low fat vegetarian diet, emphasizing
high complex carbohydrates at the center. Either of the two
above books should give you most of the information you need
about nutritional requirements.

I have been following Dr. McDougall's program since May of this
year, and have been very happy and pleasantly surprised at the
results. I have noticed an improvement in my general well being,
and specifically have noticed the following:

Hayfever and other allergy symptoms relieved: No more nasal congestion,
sinus infections, post-nasal sore throats. I found during the height
of the hayfever season that I could sleep at night with my mouth closed!
Itching burning eyes and itching nose seemed slightly relieved. I found
myself going nearly all summer without allergy medication.

Almost chronic headaches gone.

Aches, pains and stiffness when getting up in the morning, or after
sitting for awhile - gone.

Increased energy, need less sleep.

Hair and skin in much better condition.

I have also lost (needed) weight, and although I eat as much and as
often as I like, I have seen no tendency to put any of it back on.

Dr. McDougall's program may seem restrictive to some, but I found
it very easy to give up the meat and dairy products, and never did
miss them. Also, I am discovering great foods I never knew existed,
a great abundance of them, and enjoy it all.

Other people I know who have started this program has experienced
improvements in the following areas: high blood pressure, high
chloresteral, diabetes, as well as noticing the same benefits I
mentioned above.

I'd be interested in hearing from anyone else who is following
the McDougall program.

Sherry Mann
att!ihspc!smann
-- 
Sammy=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The enemy of women...is not men, just as the enemy of blacks is not whites.
The enemy is "the tyranny of the dull mind." Carol S. Pearson, _The Hero Within_ 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: tscwhitehead@cc.weber.edu (Clarke Whitehead)
Subject: Eczema and holistic cures
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Weber State University
Date: 22 Dec 1992 11:37 MST  

I'm fairly new to the concept of natural remedies to problems.  My father
was an organic chemist for a pharmaceutical company, and I was taught that
the best cures were always through medical doctors and drugs.  Over the 
years, however, I have started to look for more natural cures.

I am curious however, about what approach to take in finding a solution,
when there are many directions to take.  Recently, I posted a question
on the HOLISTIC internet list asking for advice regarding treatment for
Eczema, and received dozens of different approaches including the
exclusion of milk, wheat, citrus, etc, from the diet, ointments,
Preparation-H, meditation, lemon-juice fasts, chants, etc, etc, etc.

With the complex relationships between nutrition, life styles, mental
attitude, etc.  How do you isolate the actual problems creating such
ailments.  I recently (about a month so far) eliminated milk from my
diet to see if that had an effect.  I have also been cutting back on
fats and eating more fruits and vegetables.  The Eczema got much worse
for a while, and now is starting to settle back down after resorting
back to the old Hydrocortizone ointment.  Do I have to go through this
type of trial with every possible contributor?  How long does it take
for a nutritional change to have an effect?  And, can I assume that it
didn't do any good (perhaps even bad) to eliminate milk, or is the increase
in veggies and fruits perhaps even making the Eczema worse? Perhaps I'm
looking for too quick of a cure, but I hate to have my whole life and
diet revolve around eliminating one problem among many (I also have
several allergies I want to alleviate).

Any recommendation to a new-comer would be appreciated :)

Clarke

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative