HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: helfman@aero.org (Robert S. Helfman)
Subject: Re: 8-Trey Gangsta Madness
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:21:18 GMT

In article <stovall.714958684@ficus.cs.ucla.edu> stovall@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Steven Stovall) writes:
>
>In a move that even outraged a woman Holy Ghost preacher I listened to
>this morning, LA DA Ira Reiner removed the black judge who was scheduled
>to preside over the 8-Trey/Reginald Denny trial. The reasons given were
>pretty lame: 1) Judge Dorn was not a "long-cause judge" and therefore
>couldn't devote exclusive attention to the case 2) Judge Dorn's court-
>room didn't have the desired security enhancements 3) Judge Dorn had
>a history of "temperamental" clashes with prosecutors. Of course, race
>had nothing to do with it :-)
>

Even though we've been overtaken by events (Reiner and the defense
attornies have asked for a black judge from Compton - this is in the
L.A. Times this morning, 8/28), you should know a bit about Judge
Dorn. [Caveat: I'm white. I live in the Crenshaw area.] 

I have had multiple friends, who were black, who came before Judge Dorn
several years ago. Both of them said that he had a serious mean streak,
that he seemed to go harder on black defendants, and that if you weren't
an 'achiever' you were the proverbial disgrace-to-the-race. Although
I don't have much sympathy for Damian Williams, his mama wouldn't have
chastised Reiner so badly if she'd known Dorn's rep. (From what I've
heard, Williams' mama wouldn't be happy if Malcolm were to rise up
from his grave, put on black robes, and preside HIMSELF at her son's
trial.)

Although I agree that these guys will have a hard time getting
a fair trial, I feel it's a righteous prosecution. SOMEBODY beat the
shit out of Reginald Denny and somebody should do time for it.
From: sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: 8-Trey Gangsta Madness
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:57:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Aug28.002719.15703@morrow.stanford.edu>,
 HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:
> 
[after lamenting the prospect of L.A. burning again:]
>
> The whole thing just scares me--a whole lot...and you know what else
> scares me?  250,000 people in South Florida with no food, no water,
> no heat, no shelter.  This is some army of folks.  If they get no
> relief soon, they could easily make the LA riots look a 3:00 p.m.
> tea party.  Louisiana's hurtin, too, although not as much as Dade
> County.  I noticed Bush only visited Louisiana and not Florida
> (correct me, babies, if I'm wrong).  Betcha there would have been no
> photo opportunity there, they would have stoned him.
> 
I think they're still too shellshocked in Dade County to get their wits
together enough to stone the President.  They've had two chances now--
he finally went to Florida last Thursday, and went down again yesterday,
to see for himself the textbook definition of "too little, too late."

Maybe, though, we can hope for different in the wake of Andrew.  Rage
is understandable in the face of official confusion and foot-dragging,
but the real emotion we should be carrying away from this disaster is
humility.  (As if we needed further reminder of the fragility of our
existence....)

Sandy F. Smith, Jr. ____________________________ sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu
Graduate Division, School of Arts and Sciences, University of Pennsylvania
16 College Hall, Philadelphia, PA 19104-6378.  (Opinions mine, not Penn's)
 
"The God I serve don't make no trash!"
      -- Rev. Emanuel Cleaver, Mayor, City of Kansas City, Mo.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african.american:9103 misc.headlines:6103
From: garry@alice.att.com (garry hodgson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,misc.headlines
Subject: Re: Lee: Skip work to attend Malcolm X
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:38:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23596
Reply-To: garry@alice.UUCP ()
Organization: AT&T, Bell Labs

In article <1992Aug30.025011.17709@ucunix.san.uc.edu> minhaszt@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Zafar T Minhas) writes:

>Spike Lee hates 'em, Malcolm X couldn't care for 'em. And I'd like to beat
>one up. 
>
>zafar


You would, huh?  Then you, sir, are an ignorant, bigoted, asshole.
If you feel like beating someone up, you're welcome to start with me.
I'd love to rid the world of one of your kind.

-- 
Garry Hodgson			A slow winter day
AT&T Bell Labs			A night like forever
garry@alice.att.com		Sink like a stone
att!alice!garry			Float like a feather
From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Subject: Re: Lee: Skip work to attend Malcolm X
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 00:06:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.144323.26712@athena.cs.uga.edu>,
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes back to barnhart...
>
>I've read only the first chapter or two of the autobiography (I
>checked in out of the library, and haven't had time to return to
>reading it yet), and I already braced myself to find out what (if any)
>were Malcom's veiws on gays.  I expect them, if expressed in the
>autobiography, not to be anywhere near progressive, even after his
>hajj.
>
>I've learned that even those black men who try to create a world where
>"all men" are free usually mean all men except me.
>
>
>If Mr. Lee ever recinds some of his views, etc., I'll happily say
>nice things about him.  Until such a time.....
.
.
.
There is a new book out, which was reviewed in this past Sunday's
S.F. Chronicle which may knock some teeth out. Tomorrow I'll bring
it over and put said information on line.  This new book about
Malcolm says, among other things, that while Malcolm was in his pimp
period, he also hired himself to some well-to-do to rich white guys
as a male prostitute.  A couple of names are named.
.
The author of this book (and I don't know whether the guy is white
or black) also says that some aspects of the famous Autobiography of
Malcolm X are contrived. Malcolm, it turns out, was ambivalent about
a lot of things--about sex, race--the whole kit and caboodle. If
anything, the autobiography is about PR, in the author's view.
There are references to fack (fact) this book up.
.
I know that there is bound to be a lot of new information springing
up about Malcolm, because he means a lot to many of us, and some of
it is going to piss us off, because we don't know whether it is true
or not. Just remember that many of our icons have clay feet.
Remember Malcolm's essential message to all of us:
self-determination.
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: 8-Trey Gangsta Madness
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:01:11 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <stovall.714958684@ficus.cs.ucla.edu> stovall@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Steven Stovall) writes:
>
>In a move that even outraged a woman Holy Ghost preacher I listened to
>this morning, LA DA Ira Reiner removed the black judge who was scheduled
>to preside over the 8-Trey/Reginald Denny trial. The reasons given were
>pretty lame: 1) Judge Dorn was not a "long-cause judge" and therefore
>couldn't devote exclusive attention to the case 2) Judge Dorn's court-
>room didn't have the desired security enhancements 3) Judge Dorn had
>a history of "temperamental" clashes with prosecutors. Of course, race
>had nothing to do with it :-)
>
>Judge Dorn called a press conference to castigate DA Reiner, and was
>backed up by his supervisor, who called him one of the top judges in
>the city. Damian Williams momma likewise called for Reiner's head.
>Yolanda Madison, the most visible African American student at UCLA,
>was quoted as saying "If they get convicted, I suggest that people
>burn the city down." Ooh-wee, baby.

Oh great. Whatsa matter? Did they miss some poor, black neighborhoods
the first time?  

I hope these guys do get convicted.  Since when (to use an old cliche)
have two wrongs made a right?

>Seeing as how convictions in the Rodney King federal civil rights
>case are going to be hard to come by (intent to deprive has to be
>proven), the go-down may yet go down one mo time.

great.



-- 
"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
			-Joseph Beam_
Terrance Heath 
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson)
Subject: Re: Women Bashing
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 00:47:23 GMT

In article <0ecrTXO00iUxI204kj@andrew.cmu.edu> dc4l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Dean Calloway) writes:
>Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.african.american: 31-Aug-92 Re: Women
>Bashing by Michael J. Carpenter@gn. 
>> Well, the dichotomy is clear as you listen to Black Sheep's album, at least 
>> they aren't one-sided about it; however, it seems that the listener takes
>> away from rap what s/he walks in with. I think BS is artistically one of the
>> better duo's, not to mention the slamming tracks on NWA's last album. Yet,
>> listening to some of the words SHOULD generate some concern as to the lyrical
>> content. At the moment, I'm not entirely sure whether being a selective 
>> consumer will persuade some artists that their views should be much more 
>> elevated. The responsibility of the "lesson" learned is solely that of the
>> listener.
>
>While I try to refrain from such expressions (at least most of the
>time), "FUCK RAP."
>
>That being said, what I mean is this: we have too many little boys (and
>a bunch of them are in their twenties) who use rap as a model to pattern
>their approach towards women after.  The more serious problem of what to
>do about relationships between black men and women is obscured by
>half-thinking, questionably talented young men who defend their
>profanity through "Freedom of speech," "you don't understand the
>ghetto," "I'm just playing and don't really mean it," and "that's just
>the way I express myself."
>
>Bull****! While I enjoy music just as much as the next guy, the stuff
>being turned out is just ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!  Couching the ignorance
>of young brothers in the above arguments makes it no less offensive or
>wrong.
>
>DCAL

I think the point is that the majority of black men DON'T feel the way that
some of the rap songs portray black women. The problem I have is that many
black women use this as an excuse to date a white man. They say that well
the majority of black men don't respect black women so I'll date this
white guy because he's different. That's a bunch of bull... I'm bringing
this up because I have had black women who are dating white men tell me this
kind of crap.




Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,misc.headlines
From: bing@jazz.concert.net (Carter E. Bing)
Subject: Judge Disputes Claim
Organization: Joe`s Deli 
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:33:17 GMT

		Judge Disputes Claim

				Taken without consent from the 

				The Herald - Sun


	LA- A African American judge removed by prosecutors from the case 
	of three black men charged with beating a white truck driver 
	disputed prosecutors` claims that he was to busy to handle the
	case.

	Prosecutors immediately asked for a new judge Tuesday after the 
	case was assigned to Superior Court Judge Roosevelt Dorn. Each
	side has one peremptory challenge with which it can remove a judge 
	without stating a cause.

	Defense attorneys accused the prosecutors of racism. Dorn didn`t say 
	he agreed, but he said prosecutors should withdraw the challenge to
	reassure the community that racism wasn`t involved.




--
 "The oak sleeps in the acorn, the gaint sequoia sleeps in it`s tiny seed,
  the bird waits in the egg and God waits for his unfolding in man."
       Funkadelic                       bing@concert.net
From: stovall@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Steven Stovall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Lee: Skip work to attend Malcolm X
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:37:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: ficus.stovall.715534629
Distribution: usa
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department

What is this, the "Culture War"??

HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:

>Steve says:

>>I would like to know who this writer is. The guy would have to have a
>>lot of credibility for me to buy into this, although people in the life
>>can and will do anything to survive in their insular and peculiarly
>>nihilistic world and many of them are in fact pansexual.

>I say:

>So why can't El Hajj Malik El Shabazz be pansexual as well as the
>other folk interviewed for the book?

El Hajj Malik cant be, but Detroit Red can be. It would just have to
be asserted by a "credible" source. I doubt if such a source will be
forthcoming (in particular, I doubt that the source in question is such
a source). In the meantime, this smacks of West Village revisionism.

>Steve says:

>>Whatever the truth of this allegation, by the time he entered public life
>>as a minister of the Nation of Islam, Malcolm *was* the seminal blackman
>>and was *not* the depraved Detroit Red.

>I say:

>Was he also depraved for being a male prostitute?  Receiving or
>giving the smallest affection or pleasure as a young adult?  The
>fine line ain't always so fine...and ain't even a line at times.

Pimps, hustlers, dope fiends are depraved. But redeemable.

>By the time he was Minister Malcolm he was certified "straight."  So
>is this necessarily good? And the Nation of Islam is a very
>"straight," conservative institution. Malcolm went from one extreme
>to another.  Perhaps he was trying to reach for the center.  We'lll
>never know for sure.

Life in the Nation of Islam is a definite improvement over hustling.

Trust me.

>Steve concludes:

>>Understand that homosexuality is explicitly prohibited by the Quran.
>>Al Hajj Malik Shabazz was a Muslim who believed la ilaha il Allah
>>(there is no God but Allah) and Muhammedan Rasullulah (Muhammed is
>>the Messenger of Allah), not to mention the Angels, the Prophets,
>>the Quran, the Last Day...and that trangressors will be roasted
>>at hellfire.

>I say:

>Jeez, Steve.  Calm down.  Pull up the stakes and send those wagons
>of wood home.  Ain nobody burning anyone tonight, or any other
>night.

Hey, dont blame me. These are the words of Allah in the surah "The Event"
(English by Pickthall) about the events of the Last Day:

	But if he is of the rejectors, the erring,
	Then the welcome will be boiling water
	And roasting at hellfire.

_______________________________________________________________________________

steven stovall
stovall@exeter.cs.ucla.edu
(310) 825-7307
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african.american:9083 misc.headlines:6076
From: barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us (Mr Aaron Barnhart)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,misc.headlines
Subject: Re: Lee: Skip work to attend Malcolm X
Date: 29 Aug 92 20:30:21 GMT
Organization: Evanston, Illinois
Originator: barnhart@gagme

This is in reply to heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath), who wrote:
:
:Having still not forgiven Lee for the homophobic content of "School
:Daze", I don't think I'll be skipping work, school, or anything else
:in order to see this movie and put money in his pocket. 
:
:If I want to know something about Malcolm X, I'll read the
:autobiography or his speeches.  
:
:-- 
:"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
:			-Joseph Beam_
:Terrance Heath 
:heath@athena.cs.uga.edu

Well, when you read the Autobiography, I hope you're a little more
forgiving of Malcolm's categorizations of men's and women's roles.
It was strict and even one might say old-fashioned, but at the time
he felt the discipline was absolutely necessary.

Unlike Spike, Malcolm appeared to be a man in perpetual transition
and change, someone willing to amend or even rescind old views.  Not
that you should read into what he does or doesn't say just any old
thing (and don't assume he legitimizes *your* point of view).  But
he was not an absolutist, he was the product of his age in many
ways.  

(Will we all be saying such nice things about Spike Lee in 30 years?)


-- 
Mr. Aaron Barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us -- posting from Evanston, Illinois
From: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta)
Subject: Re: Lee: Skip work to attend Malcolm X
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 00:58:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug30.025011.17709@ucunix.san.uc.edu> minhaszt@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Zafar T Minhas) writes:

>In article <1992Aug27.155006.29834@athena.cs.uga.edu> heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes:
>>

>>If I want to know something about Malcolm X, I'll read the
>>autobiography or his speeches.  
>>
>>-- 
>>"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
>>			-Joseph Beam_
>>Terrance Heath 
>>heath@athena.cs.uga.edu
>
>Spike Lee hates 'em, Malcolm X couldn't care for 'em. And I'd like to beat
>one up. 
>
>zafar

You asshole! What makes you think you can beat Terrance up?? Try it, and this
might just be the last silly posting you will ever make.


-- 
Internet: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Bitnet:   kautaj@iubacs.bitnet         
Uucp:     kautaj@iubacs.uucp           
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: merciermd@EA.USL.EDU (Lusty Yeller Wench)
Subject: Re: Johns vs. Carpenter
Reply-To: merciermd@EA.USL.EDU (Lusty Yeller Wench)
Organization: The Rubber Band Planet of Supple Passion Droids
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 13:30:11 GMT

In article <YeceZ4m00UhWM7nVsE@andrew.cmu.edu>, Dean Calloway <dc4l+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.african.american: 29-Aug-92 Re: Johns
>vs. Carpenter by Dowdy Jackson@tochtli.bi 
>I would disagree strongly.  While there may be minute variations in how
>they go about it (wine instead of Ciscos), the behavior of many young
>men is nothing short of disgusting in regards to women.
i tend to agree. women themselves do a lot to perpetuate this
attitude, but that doesn't excuse anyone's male child, black or
otherwise, from having respect for women in general.
>
>I have heard language from many "educated" brothers that would turn
>their mothers blue.  You literally can't go anywhere these days
>(including colleges, award dinners, WEDDINGS,...) without hearing
>fellows talk about this "bitch" or that "bitch."
>
coming from an "educated" family, i have heard this appalling view
expressed many times. double standards also abound. since i became
pregnant, i have discovered how chauvinistic the males of my family
and my neighborhood are, since i am not married. i am also accosted
by guys on the street because i am pregnant. it is truly disgusting.
>>  
>> So what.
is this guy for real or what???? tell me he is joking, please.
otherwise, i might be tempted to sic my sister on him...

>> While I can not speak to the intent of the author, I can say that in general
>> you will find more black men who don't view black women as some sort
>of sexual
>>  
>> delicacy than you would white men.
>
>Does it matter whether shes a delicacy or an object?  MEN (black and
>white) objectify women.  Young men see women as sexual objects.  Point
>blank.  Its how we're taught.
hear, hear! my brother was brought up in only a mildly chauvinistic
environment, and was taught by my parents to have a lot of respect
for women. somewhere along the way, though, he got his signals
crossed and he is a regular oink oink.

if pigs will please excuse the comparison...
>
> I agree with her that black women SHOULD
>> be with a black man.
good. find me one. i can't seem to find one that has an interest
in me beyond doing the do. wait a minute, i can think of two of them.
they are both gay.

>
> Despite what the media says about us black men, we are
>> nothing without a strong black woman by our sides.
>
>I think this is stretching and maybe its the problem.  We're something
>regardless of who stands with us or against us.
>
>A lot of young Black men need to learn to quit relying on black women
>for all the heavy work, take responsibility, and be strong in and of
>themselves.
>
a very valid one to me, although i may be slightly biased ;)

>Not a value judgement.  Just an opinion.
>
>DCAL
marisstella

--<-{@

"lemme graze into your veldt,
lemme stomple your albino
lemme nibble on your buds;
i'm your love rhino."
              -deathtongue

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: dxc4@po.CWRU.Edu (David Condon)
Subject: Re: Sister comes home to Demos
Reply-To: dxc4@po.CWRU.Edu (David Condon)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 19:52:03 GMT


In a previous article, HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) says:

>Check this from the late Republican Convention:
[story about Carol Ward Allen]
>.
>I haven't heard one way or another whether the sister came home to
>the Demos to stay.  I know one thing, I'd be shamed of being in the
>party of Clarence Thomas and Condoleezza Rice. IMO, black Republican
>means non-sequitur.
>
On a local Cleveland TV news show, they had an interview at the airport
with several African-American Ohio delegates on the way out to Houston. One
of the men, who looked to be in his thirties, was wearing a very handsome
and brightly-colored Malcolm X sweatshirt.
I felt a little bit dizzy when I saw this.
-- 
          "In universities, it is forbidden to teach nonsense. 
          But the _history_ of nonsense -- that's scholarship!"

                                            -- Saul Lieberman
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Lee: Skip work to attend Malcolm X
Date: 3 Sep 92 19:18:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Sep3.191808.8289
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <stovall.715534629@ficus.cs.ucla.edu> stovall@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Steven Stovall) writes:
>>Steve concludes:
>
>>>Understand that homosexuality is explicitly prohibited by the Quran.
>>>Al Hajj Malik Shabazz was a Muslim who believed la ilaha il Allah
>>>(there is no God but Allah) and Muhammedan Rasullulah (Muhammed is
>>>the Messenger of Allah), not to mention the Angels, the Prophets,
>>>the Quran, the Last Day...and that trangressors will be roasted
>>>at hellfire.
>
>>I say:
>
>>Jeez, Steve.  Calm down.  Pull up the stakes and send those wagons
>>of wood home.  Ain nobody burning anyone tonight, or any other
>>night.
>
>Hey, dont blame me. These are the words of Allah in the surah "The Event"
>(English by Pickthall) about the events of the Last Day:
>
>	But if he is of the rejectors, the erring,
>	Then the welcome will be boiling water
>	And roasting at hellfire.
>

It seems to me than any professor of a religion the center of which is
love would be unable to express anything except despair at the thought
that anyone would suffer "hellfire" for all eternity.  It seems the
very antithesis of loving religion to look upon suffering with joy, or
even with indifference or matter-of-factly.



-- 
"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
			-Joseph Beam_
Terrance Heath 
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu