HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mmarkish@FEDS46.PRIME.COM (Mark Markish x2799)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Gogol' etc.
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:03:14 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

| From: "Patricia M. Schwarz"
|
| >> Why the hell is Gogol's sexual orientation important ?
|
| >You don't know why? Just listen:
|
| >+ Thank God, above all, that you are a Russian. For the Russian, at the
| >+ present time, there is a way; that way is Russia herself. If only the
| >+ Russian loves Russia and everything there is in Russia! It is to this
| >+ Love that God Himself now directs us. Without the maladies and suffering
| >+ that have accumulated in such numbers in her, and of which we are guilty,
| >+ not one of us would feel compassion for her. And compassion is already
| >+ the beginning of love.
| >+   [Selected Parts from the Correspondence with Friends,
| >+   English translation, p.111-112]
|
| I don't understand....why would his sexual orientation counter that
| message? Aren't they independent?
| ...
| Like I said, I'm interested in trying to understad him as an individual,
| but his writing is a separate thing.

This last statement is a valid observation, but it is not an end
in itself. Of course, I understand your indignation and disgust with
someone's alleged sodomy - but, still, this is not the pivot for anyone's
quest to know him "as an individual", even though at a certain point this
problem - and not only this one, but many others, like in anyone of us -
will surface. Someone has already quoted here a Pushkin's letter regarding
Lord Byron.

To illustrate my point, imagine that you have been reading an article and
found there an error: on page 36 Paul von Hindenburg is mistaken for
Joachim von Ribbentropp. Funny? Maybe. Relevant to the author's familiarity
with the field? Probably. Crucial for the subject matter? Hardly. Now
imagine that someone else keeps pointing to this error and proclaimes that
he wants to expose and study it. You would probably say:
  - You can do it - but won't it obscure something more important?

| > Talent is not equal to saintness.
| > It's more from God -
| > Igor Belichinsky
|
| I agree.

And while it is impossible to argue with Igor and you, it is mete to ask:
Is saintness _less_ from God?

Let me conclude with a genuine piece of the Soviet culture (underground,
of course) :

A letter of a listener to ...hmm... (straxa radi mutlodeiska) National
Public Radio, All Crap Considered:
 - Is it true that Peter Tchaikovsky was a sodomite?
Answer:
 - Yep... but we love him not only for this reason.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: pmaggs@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Peter B. Maggs)
Subject: Re: St. Petersburg, HELP !!!***!!!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 20:30:33 GMT

kilborn4950@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

>In article <BtxHIv.93I@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, pmaggs@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Peter B. Maggs) writes:
>> On the question of coping with Metro and bus tickets for foreigners
>> in Russia -- there is a simple answer.  For under a dollar, well
>> under a dollar you can buy a 10 day pass at any subway station
>> that is good on all forms of transport.  If you don't know how
>> to do it just ask a Russian to buy it for you.  Then you can
>> get into the subway by waving it at a guard.  If a ticket 
>> inspector boards your bus you can just wave your pass.
>> Peter Maggs                  pmaggs@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
>> 

>        I am aware of the "edinyi bilet", which is good for a month on all
>forms of transportation and fits the description you have provided, but I am
>unfamiliair with this 10-day pass of yours.  What is it called, how much does
>it cost in rubles, how long has it been around, and how in the heck come I
>don't know about it ?!:-)
>        Kilborn
It has been around for years.  The drawback is that it is for the
first 10 days of the month, the second 10 days, or the third 10 days,
so you may get to town at an unlucky time.  It costs less than half
the cost of a monthly edinyi bilet.  But with the current inflation,
I will have to wait until I get to Moscow later this month to see what
it costs.  My guess is something around 25 cents US.
Peter Maggs              pmaggs@vmd.cso.uiucedu
From: verbit@brauer.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Romanian language (was: Estonia)
Date: 8 Sep 92 09:34:23 GMT
Organization: Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv

In article <1992Sep6.225036.16479@physics.ucla.edu> viznyuk@physics.ucla.edu (Sergei Viznyuk) writes:

>  Moldavia was part of Russian Empire since sirca 1813, until
>it was annexed by Romania in 1918 (taking advantage of situation
>in Russia). 

A little earlier: if I am not wrong, from Izmail's victory circa 1760.
(More or less simultaneously with Crimea).

Misha
From: muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Philip Morris
Date: 15 Sep 1992 06:35:32 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu

In article <192pk9INNgo1@rodan.UU.NET> avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov) writes:
muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky) writes:
>>"Esli vy ne zhivete to vam i ne umirat'".
>
>A line from VV's song if i recall correctly.

Mjagkov, golosom i slovami Nikitina.

Yury

>
>--vadim
From: vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Cultural differences (Was Re: Who Is Afraid Of Patricia Schwarz?)
Date: 12 Sep 92 03:01:56 EDT

In article <LEONID.92Sep11150746@tuna.uchicago.edu>, leonid@tuna.uchicago.edu (Leonid Andreev) writes:
> Oleg Vishnepolsky writes:
> 
>>  Are you proud that your last name
>>  is Andreev ? 

Who gives a shit what his last name is? What's your problem dude?

> 
> Surely I am. As all the educated people know, Andreevs are one of 
> the best noble families of Russia. Off course I am proud of bearing
> such an aristocratic name like this.
> 

Good for you!

>>   Oleg

Get a clue Oleg.

> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> | Leonid S Andreev,    Center for Information and Language Studies,  |
> |  (312) 955 5012        University of Chicago, Chicago IL, 60637.   |
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Garrett Van Cleef 

(Hey my family are part owners of Van Cleef and Arpels - unfortunately
I am on the divorced side of the family and get ZILCH out of it, but a name 
is a name!)



Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry)
Subject: Oh, those russians....
Summary: those
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:55:34 GMT
Keywords: russians

A comment about Ms. Patricia:  

Patricia is a typical american.  In certain sense she represents America.
When she talks, she does not only expresses her opinion, she talks about
herself.  After all, why go to abstract level, why concider some more 
general situation, when she has herself, her own example of how things
happen, and she has her own opinions that she personally formulated.  In
america, self expression is the way of life.  It is self (who cares what
others think) expression.  In america, people (on average) are either
couch potatoes (who cares about everything else) or rebels without a
cause (who care about what others think, I want things to be this way),
like Ms. Schwarts.  That is why in America there are extremely exciting
shows like Jeraldo where later group speaks out to the former.

I feel that I belong to the group of atypical americans. With that in
mind, I have another comment about those who recently came from Soviet
Union:

I met few recent arrivals, and let me tell me I was not impressed by some
(myagko govorya).  Some of you do not see America for what it is, but
rather you compare it to xSU and to your xsoviet views of what America
is.  You miss all the great things that America has to offer.  

American greatness is  not in how much average Joe knows, but how much
average Joe can achieve given all the opportunities that are offered to
him.  By the way, some of you are using those things that america is
offering.

Is this enough to start a discussion about opions that soviets and emigrants
have about america?  BTW, if anyone wants complaints about america, I also
have plenty of those.

				  -Garik.

-At first, there was nothing, and then God said let there be light.  And
there was light.  There was still nothing, but you could see it much better.
    --Woody Allen (from memory)


Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: eisimps@cie.uoregon.edu (Eileen Simpson)
Subject: Re: Philip Morris
Summary: It's a different culture, folks.
Organization: University of Oregon Campus Information Exchange
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 04:19:21 GMT

In article <15081@mindlink.bc.ca> Robert_Broughton@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Broughton) writes:
>If Philip Morris is so "diversified", why aren't they setting up a factory to
>produce something that Russians really need, like condoms, soap, toilet paper,
>paint, food...
>
>Actually, I'm pleased the hear that there has been so much recent improvement
>in the Russian economy, that they can now afford:
>
>        a) the short-term productivity loss (smokers have a 42% higher
>absenteeism rate), and
>
>        b) the long-term higher health care costs
>
>that will result from having a population of smokers. Because of this new-found
>prosperity, I conclude that Russia no longer needs the billions in foreign aid
>that are being talked about.
>
>My right to breathe takes precedence over your "right" to inhale.

I am not a smoker, I hate smoking, and I don't support tobacco companies.

That said, I have also been to the former Soviet Union. 

It's not the USA, folks.  They smoke more, they drink more, and they party
differently.

We can argue that they *should* not drink so much hard liquor or smoke so
much (it drives me nuts to be around any cigarettes, and Russian smokes are
the _worst_) but these people have enough trouble and very little
entertainment and pleasure, and they don't need self-righteous Americans
telling them that they really should give up smoking.  In fact, you tell
them that (and give up vodka while you're at it), and they will tell you to
buzz off.

And why not?  Most, if not all of the Americans upset about the cigarette
factory have never been hungry and figure that, if there's nothing good on
cable, they will go rent a movie for their VCR.  If we were *creating* this
vice and pushing it on them, I would stand the tobacco companies against a
wall and have them shot.

But we are not creating this vice.  The smokers of the former USSR will
have access to cigarettes that are much less toxic than Russian smokes.
Given that they are not likely to want to take on a no-smoking campaign in
the middle of economic chaos, this is a real-life solution to real people
who have their vices and small desires.

Some comments on cigarettes remind me of Prohibitionists who would impose
their health standards on others regardless of whether it is wanted.  It is
egotistical, arrogant, and doomed to failure. Especially when the target is
another country.

BTW:  attempts to reduce drinking by cutting the vodka supply resulted in
many deaths from moonshine or even de-icer (for aircraft).  Efforts to
impose our smoking attitudes will fail.  Let the culture manage itself.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Subject: Re: Cultural differences (Was Re: Who Is Afraid Of Patricia Schwarz?)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13:38:41 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.12 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In  <13769.2ab15da4@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu>  vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
> > Oleg Vishnepolsky writes:
> >>  Are you proud that your last name
> >>  is Andreev ?
>
> Who gives a shit what his last name is? What's your problem dude?
[Crap deleted]

First look at my original note and see in what context this question
was asked and save your a.. from idiotic flaming.

Oleg
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Master and Margaret and other books
From: ioffe@chen.bgu.ac.il (Alex Ioffe)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:32:55 GMT
Organization: Ben Gurion University, Beer Sheva, Israel

patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz) writes:
: > In any case, I peronally
: >would prefere hell with Woland in charge to heaven with Jacob.
:
: Me too. I will meet you there.
:
: There is a lot of cruelty and acceptance of cruelty in the Bible.
:
: -patricia


HANDS OFF FROM TORAH


Nick:)
P.S. Ironiia(don't response:))

Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: ayr@gtech.com (Aleksey Y. Romanov)
Subject: Re: Who Is Afraid Of Patricia Schwarz?
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich RI
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 13:41:41 GMT

In article <95731@bu.edu> shimkevi@buchmf.bu.edu (Sergey Shimkevich) writes:
>Come on, gospoda, what was that she said? So what if her interest in Russian
>culture is not deep enough for your liking? Haven't you got anything better to
>do? So what if she lumped Pasternak and rock bands into one category: WHO
>CARES!!! (who cares about Pasternak anyway :-) :-) :-)
>
There is one big SOVOK( and xSOVOK)/american cultural difference: we(SOVOKs and
xSOVOKs)  are untolerant to the idiotism. I am interesting is it a Russian
tradition or is it one of the great _zavoevanij of socializm and result of
building new man ( means _chelovek). I do not think it is our cultural
advantage. However, it (good or bad) is part of our culture.

What other cultural differences can you point out ?




-- 
Aleksey Y. Romanov

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed are entirely my own and do not
necessary reflect those of my employer or anyone else
From: vadim@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Chto takoe politura ochishennaya? 
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:01:17 EDT

 Tsitiruyu:
"Koroche,zapisyvayte retsept 'Hanaanskogo balzama". Zhizn daetsya
cheloveku odin tolko raz,i prozhit ee nado tak,chtoby ne oshibitsya v
retseptah:    Denaturat-   100g
              Barhatnoe pivo-200g
              Politura ochishennaya-100g
Itak,pered vami "Hanaanskiy balzam" (ego v prostorechye nazyvayut
chernoburkoy)-zhidkost v samom dele chernoburogo tsveta,s umerennoy krepostyu
i stoykim aromatom. Eto uzhe dazhe ne aromat,a gimn. Gimn demokraticheskoy
molodezhi. Imenno tak,potomu chto v vypivshem etot kokteyl vyzrevayut
vulgarnye i temnie sily. Ya skolko raz nablyudal!  A chtoby nazrevanie
etih temnyh sil hot' kak-to predotvratit',est dva sredstva. Vo-pervyh,
ne pit' "Hanaanskiy balzam", a vo-vtoryh, pit',vzamen ego, 
kokteyl  'Duh Zhenevi' ..."

   Poskolku Politura Ochishennaya daet ochen sushestvenniy vklad
v kokteyl voznikaet rezonniy vopros a Chto Eto Takoe i gde
krome kokteylya ona primenyaetsya??
-V.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: A piece of concrete poetry
From: verbit@brauer.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Date: 8 Sep 92 11:49:52 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Sozialistische Patienten Kollektiv


The following piece of concrete poetry was written by the same
genuis who penned the distinguished "Strana Hasana" not
long ago. By some reasons, he wanted to remain anonymous.
From me, I have to add that I am ashamed with some attacks
on esteemed Patricia Schwartz, and I am not connected with Patricia
bashers in any way. If you don't want to read distinguished
concrete poetry, press <n> key.



Patricia Schwarz, rape survivor, "Survival in Auschwitz" :

When Stephanie first told her story, her the blows, then he broke in two, like
a dry tree struck by lightening, and I'll honor your
memory forever!


Boris Pasternak, poet:

I v pol'noh' smolknut' tvar i plot'
zaslyshav slux vesennyj
chto tol'ko raspogod'
Smert' mozhno budet poborot'
usiliem voskresenniia.

Primo Levi, Holocaust survivor, "Trauma and Recovery" :

We have done much better to say that it is in
much better to remind us of the ordeal had occurred
after the assault was over, when our life; and them, 
and child abuse survivor.

Patricia Schwarz, rape survivor, "Night" :

[The gaurd] began to be clean? ...Contract scabies
and skin fungus, live in filth, breathe then felt at the looming powers
of madness around them, and especially the feelings
are so powerful. I thinking
of how to avoid Idek's outbreak. That is what concentration
camp life made of me.

Natan Scharansky, zek, "Fear No Evil" :

Back in Lefortovo, Socrates and Gangantua,
Oedipus and Don Quixote, Ulysses and Don Quixote, Ulysses and Gangantua,
Oedipus and Gangantua,
Oedipus and Don Quixote, Ulysses and Gangantua,
Oedipus and Hamlet, had rushed to my aid. 
I felt at the moment was over, when the
hard corners of the prison-camp world of evil.

Patricia Schwarz, rape and systematic
destruction. It's normal person is repelled by coarseness
and lies? You will
have to strain all your own homes that you will is it
possible that the looming powers
of madness around him is
disappears as Saviour, the
unspoken solidarity
was think, "You helped
free men, it would not be hit myself.

Elie Wiesel, Holocaust survivor, "Night" :

[The gaurd] began to be clean? ...Contract scabies
and skin fungus, live in filth, breathe then felt a spiritual
bond with herself.
What is what concentration
camp life made of me.

Natan Scharansky, zek, "Fear No Evil" :

Back in Lefortovo, Socrates and Gangantua,
Oedipus and Don Quixote, Ulysses and Hamlet, 
had rushed to deliberate and collapsed. I had watched the whole
scene with him, for
not knowing how to avoid Idek's outbreak. That is what concentration
camp life made of me.

Natan Scharansky, zek, "Fear No Evil" :

Back in Lefortovo, Socrates and Gangantua,
Oedipus and Gangantua,
Oedipus and Don Quixote, Ulysses and Gangantua,
Oedipus and Hamlet, had rushed to my aid. 
I felt ashamed and disgusted with an iron bar. 
At first told her story, her to retain one
from the characters against death in
the middle of values.
From: sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: On Bulgakov's anti-semitism (was RE: Re: Bulgakov"
Date: 9 Sep 92 00:01:29 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <SCS-L%92090815311665@INDYCMS.BITNET> "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:

>I probably was out of the 'real world' for a while, 'cause I learn more and
>more 'well-known' facts in this forum.  What are the evidences of Bulgakov's
>anti-semitism?

 Remember "Sobachje Serdtse"?  It might be questionable, but I beleive
that Shvonder was a Jew. Last name sounds Jewish and he was described
as black haired. 
 So, Philipp Philippovich, absolutely nice and gorgeous person said once:
"Ja by etogo Shvondera, chestnoe slovo, povesil by na pervom suku" -
skazal Philipp Philippovich, vgryzajas' v krylo indushki." (Quotation
from my  memory). 

 Isn't that a call to exterminate Jews? 

 Or take "Master & ..", what about criticist Latunsky? Very vile person.
 Or succesfully killed Berlioz? 
 How bad fin. director Rymsky looks.  And all that are just from the
"top of my head". 

 And after all that you're asking about the evidences?

>Timur


 S.B.
From: Robert_Broughton@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Broughton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Philip Morris
Date: 10 Sep 92 21:37:03 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

Is it true that prominent U.S. drug pusher Philip Morris is setting up a
processing plant in Russia?
--
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Robert Broughton    Robert_Broughton@mindlink.bc.ca

"We calm and reassure. We embrace people with the message that we're
all in it together. That our leaders are infallible and that there is
nothing, absolutely nothing wrong." - Miles Drentell, _thirtysomething_
From: jrh@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (James Hester)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: St. Petersburg, HELP !!!***!!!
Date: 8 Sep 1992 11:04:52 +0800
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au

dxper@dtek.chalmers.se (Per Anders Olausson) writes:

>muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky) writes:

>>It also called "edinyi", but there are couple of various passes valid for
>>10 days, 15 days and 1 month. There are around for quite a while (couple
>>of years, at least). I'm not sure, but I think cost is linear with time.

>  What about train travelling in Russia? Is it still possible to pay in
>rubles if you are a foreigner?

>  If so, are there any plans to withdraw this possibility in the near future?

I have just come back after spending 6 months in Moscow.  A 'edini'
ticket for the whole month of July cost 120 roubles (about 60c) .  I saw
no sign of day/week/fortnight passes for the Moscow Metro, although you
can buy month passes valid only on trams or buses or the underground.

As for train travel, I quite happily travelled as far as Lvov and back
paying roubles, and regularly travelled to Petersburg for roubles.  I
should add that I didn't know the answer to your question when I was
there and so was very cautious about revealing my foreignness when
buying tickets and travelling on the train.  The ticket sellers didn't
seem to care about my accent, and I hardly ever had to speak to the
conductors.  My assessment is that the system is not really set up
particularly well for catching Russian-speaking foreigners (no passport
checks etc.).  FYI, July ticket prices Moscow-Petersburg one way - 140
roubles on the 5-hour express train, 96 roubles for a 'platzkartni'
ticket + 20 roubles for the bedding, and a coupe? I don't know, the
speculators had them all and were selling them for 400 roubles.

Never heard anything about plans to crack down on foreigners in trains.

James Hester
jrh@crystal.uwa.edu.au