From: mwallace@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mark Wallace)
Subject: >Snowboarders Suck
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 19:31:51 GMT

Before I respond to the following post I'll make a few comments.  It may
not be the case here but very often sweeping generalizations are made
concerning boarding (or any endevor).  This is not a valid thing to do fo
any large population.  The fact is the boarder population is made up of
mostly young males with not very much snowboarding experience.  From this
fact many of the "problems" can be explained.

In article <BzBnHK.DID@vcd.hp.com> thatcher@vcd.hp.com (Garen Thatcher)
writes:
>
> Just wanted to post a few of my own notes here on the subject and 
> would appreciate some comments back from the "Snowboarders" here.
> 
> Let me preface this with the fact that I have skied for about 20 years
> after growing up in Utah and working at Sundance and Alta in various
> ventures.
>

I have skied for the last 25 years and boarded for the last 7, I grew up
in Utah and have instructed both sports, skiing formally and boarding
informally.  So?  We're human, we're distinct, we like different things.

>
>I have been known to badmouth(under my breath) snowboarders.
>

Me too, also skiers and telemakers and drivers and motorcyclists and
hikers and just about any activity where people are involved.

>
>Reasons:
>
>1. I am really bothered by what a group of guys on snowboards can
>   do to a hill that is just getting some good close moguls forming
>   on it. Since the average turn is much more broad and scoops out much
>   more snow, it ends up wiping out the hill for the skier. 
>
>   I like the solution of a few years ago where the snowboarders were
>   given certain areas of the hill to ski on.
>

This is a true statement, but could also be made for a "group of guys" on
skis.  The pertinent fact here is the skill level of the skiers/boarders.
A skier at a low skill level arguabley does as much damage as a comparabl
boarder.  And an advanced boarder can make shorter radius turns than any
but the more advanced skiers.  I think the thing to keep in mind here is
the time that boarding has been around.  The population hasn't had time t
reach higher skill levels.  I'd venture that the average number of years
experience for a given boarder is about 3 years.

Rather than banning boarders lets ban beginners.  Which is really what th
ski patrol tries to do on some runs: "Expert skiers only, Most difficult
terrain no beginners...".  Additionally some runs are resticted to skis o
at least a certain length which restricts boards as well.

>
>2. Often times the comment is made that lots of people move from skiing
>   to a snowboard but very seldom back. This is a very stupid line of
>   reasoning to say the one is better than the other. At what level is
>   the person when he gave up skiing? .....
>

Many things are said in defense of boarding because of the attacks made o
it.  Can you blame the boarders for being defensive? (Note title of this
post)

Neither sport is better, they're different.  

For me boarding offers new challenges and the opportunity to do things on
the slopes that can't be done on skis.  

>
>3. You mention that since the sport is attracting more and more people
>   that it must be a good thing. Remember that the MAIN reason that the
>   resorts began allowing on in the first place is that the owners of
>   these places want to make as much money as they possibly can. If, by
>   allowing boarders on the mountain they get another 100 boarders *
>   $30 per ticket + 100 * $5 lunch they get $3500 dollars per day. That
>   money is important to these people. GREED is what drives this and
>   most sports. Your line of reasoning is flawed. BOING-- Try again.
>

Resorts are in bussiness to make a profit, so whats the point here?

>
>I also hope we can stop all the flaming on both sides of the issuehere.
>All it does is make life more frustating for all of us when we are on 
>the slopes.
>

Last year I started, followed and summarized a thread on why some resorts
don't allow boarders.  Perhaps the most important point to come out of
that discussion was the point about resort size.  In the western U.S. and
Europe the resorts are much larger than the Eastern U.S. resorts, the
boarder/skier friction seems much more prevelent in the east.

Snowboarding is here to stay, everyone should accept that.  If a skier
can't live with boarders then you're limited to a few ski areas (and
getting fewer all the time).  2 areas in Colorado don't allow boards, the
other 25 have no restrictions.

Mark Wallace

Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: speedy@speedy.demon.co.uk (Jeffrey Holdgate)