From: green@island.COM (Robert Greenstein)
Subject: Re: Jews For Germans
Organization: Strawman Incorporated
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:02:37 GMT

In article <46302@unlisys.in-berlin.de> stingray@unlisys.in-berlin.de (Christian Lampl) writes:
>green@island.COM (Robert Greenstein) writes:
>
>>>In the Vietnam war, for example, there were members of
>>>the U.S. Marines who raped women or shot civil persons.
>>>Do ya want to judge the people who did this cruelty or do ya want
>>>every member of the U.S. Marines. 
>
>>So now we're supposed to let members of the SS off the hook?
>The members who haven't done a crime, yes.

The crime is membership in a criminal organization.

>>About your grandfather, you said:
>
>>>Maybe I'm just a bit stupid, but can someone please
>>>tell me what is his guilt ? Fear ? Unknowledge ?
>
>>You are very stupid if you think that someone who joins the SS is
>>not guilty of anything. In an earlier post, you claimed the SS were
>>just soldiers, like the Wehrmacht. Now you say you can understand
>>why it was declared a criminal organization, but still your grandfather
>>loved his mother. How could he be a criminal? You say he was driven by
>>fear, yet no one forced him to join the SS. He wasn't forced to get
>>that tattoo, like the concentration camp victims were.
>OK.. Slowly now.

>I said some soldiers of the SS were cruel and other were just
>soldiers like the ones of the Wehrmacht.

Rather like the Marines in Vietnam, eh?

>I can understand that the SS as organization was declared as criminal,
>because their goals were cruel and full of bestiality. This does
>not mean that every member had this goals too, as long as he doesn't
>know of the cruel goals. 

Well they didn't think it was the Boy Scouts they were joining.

>I didn't say that my grandfather can't be a criminal because he loved
>his mother. I just said that for me somebody whos guilt is not proven
>is without guilt. Maybe you have a different opinion about that.
>I never said that he was driven by fear to join the SS.
>Right from the beginning I said that he joined it voluntarily.
>Instead of explaining to me how he could know everything
>we know nowadays you have nothing better to do to call 
>me a Nazi or stupid.

*You* suggested you might be a bit stupid. I just followed up on it :-)
Now if you can find the quote where I called you a Nazi, I will 
publicly apologize.

>>>Well, it's very easy to judge things afterwards, but remember:
>
>I *never* said that Nazism had its good points.
>I just said that the Nazis knew how to win the masses and that
>I can understand how things could have happened and that

Well maybe this is where we really differ. I *can't* understand how
such things could have happened. And it disturbs me when I hear people 
trying to explain it away in terms of the economy, Hitler's charisma, 
everybody does it, etc, etc.

Its like, yes it was awful, but.... 

No Buts.
-- 
******************************************************************************
Robert Greenstein           What the fool cannot learn he laughs at, thinking
green@srilanka.island.com   that by his laughter he shows superiority instead
                            of latent idiocy - M. Corelli