From: russ@math.okstate.edu (R. Nomad)
Subject: Re: The society analogy and rights (Was: Re: Essay Time for Felix)
Keywords: right wrong left ethics schmethics
Organization: Aggie? What precisely is an Aggie?
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 04:25:46 GMT

In <1993Jan24.122438.23523@athena.mit.edu> ghudson@athena.mit.edu (Greg Hudson) writes:

>jgm@ais.org (jim miller), <C1A2py.4ou@ais.org>:
>> In particular, you [Felix] cite that mud players do not have
>> "rights" guaranteed to them.  Compare this situation to that of the
>> blacks in South Africa.

>jgm@ais.org (jim miller), <C1Atys.BvE@ais.org>:
>> Trivializing muds to D&D games has been shown to be hazardous to
>> your health.  You haven't been around the block yet, son.

>I really can't help but find it amusing to see a proponent of the
>society analogy sniping at other people's comparisons.

Heh.

>Another failing of the society analogy, in this particular case, is
>that it is impossible to set up a situation where mud users and mud
>administrators share power without changing the basic framework of the
>ownership system.  As long as administrators still control the
>machines servers run on, they will have no means by which to abdicate
>any power; they can only delegate authority while retaining the
>ability to take it back at any time.

Yeah, I've been sitting on the topic of site admins because I realized it
would just become another wing of the insane asylum.  But yes, it's true;
I assure you that I have the final say on Space Madness, because only I
can type 'kill -9 `ps -x | grep netmush | awk '{print $1}'` and watch it
sink.  Any promises to the contrary may make you feel warmer, but let's face
it, if I type that on the appropriate machine, it goes down.

This is not, before I get responded to, analogous to having big guns or
whatever.  It's analogous to nothing besides being an administrator of a
machine.  See Greg directly below.

>I don't see any reason to compare muds to any other situation.  Such
>comparisons will always fail, I think, because different people think
>of muds in very different ways, and quite a few of us think of it in
>different ways at different times.  We're much better off taking
>people's perceptions of muds as they are.  Remember: analogies can
>have force as emotional appeals, and they can illustrate an argument,
>but they can't prove anything by themselves.

>I will state a priori that I will consider any comparison between
>"government" and "mud administration" with regard to the above
>paragraph to be silly.

Bravo.

>Now, let's turn to "People have a right to be treated decently."  This
>is a whole new breed of cat.  Apparently, when Sherrian neglects to
>change the litter box for a week or so, my rights are being violated.
>I never thought of it that way before.  This "right" isn't just asking
>for a guarantee; it's asking for a highly improbable guarantee.  Not
>only can the government (or a mud aministrator, for that matter) not
>guarantee that you will be treated decently, but nobody can guarantee
>that they personally are treating you decently, because none of us are
>perfect.

Indeed again.

>jgm@ais.org (jim miller), <C1B6w1.EDv@ais.org>:
>> And btw, my original article in this thread was a challenge to Felix
>> to follow up on some of his chains of reasoning which have become
>> quite involved over a long series of articles, not an invitation for
>> you to take us back to square one with your indignant sputtering.

>Usenet is not your private mailbox, Jim.  Please don't try to exclude
>people from conversations.

And, just to show how I kneejerk agree with friends, I agree with Greg again
here.

-Random
yes, I know, I could've ended three paragraphs back, sue me

-- 
---------------------===Comedy!  Sudden, violent comedy!===--------------------
Russ Smith -- russ@math.okstate.edu  |  "This is the Nineties, Bubba, and
  Don Random of the "Random Gang"    |   there is no such thing as Paranoia.
What a pinhead! Does he not fear us? |   It's all true." -- Hunter S Thompson
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny