HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: papresco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod)
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD? (long)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:36:08 GMT

>>Why doesn't VI use the jkl; keys for cursor movement, since your fingers
>>are already on them.  Or why not use keys somewhere far from them.  A
>>person can easily get confused.
>
>That is one of the nice features of vi.   The hjkl keys are where you
>normally place your fingers and in command mode h moves you left, j
>down, k up and l right.   I guess you just didn't try them.   And if
>your terminal is configured properly you can use the arrow keys too.

What touch typing course did you take?  asdfjkl;.  I practiced them 
for hours.  That's why most keyboards have little bumps on j and f,
so you can find them without looking.  Does it make much sense to
"find them without looking" and then shift my fingers to move around?
Besides, why waste the h key.  It is very valuable...it should be help!

>Yes - I noticed that you let the words continue on a very long line.
>But since vi needs to be a program editor too, there are options of
>continuing long lines, or to have them wrap just like vi is doing for
>me right now.   set wrapmargin=5 will do nicely.

Does VI need to be program editor when I'm in RN?  Surely RN could set
VI to word wrap mode, as I am certain they work together often.
From: SEB1525@MVS.draper.com (Steve Bacher)
Subject: Re: Cancelled articles
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:26:00 GMT

In article <2AFA26BB.26077@news.service.uci.edu>,
ruman@meroot.eng.uci.edu (ruman) writes:

>   I would like to know if it is possible to read a cancelled article
>without sending a control mesg cancelling the cancel. I read news via
>NNTP. I tried telnet to the NNTP port to retrieve the cancelled
>article, but am unable to get it. ("article number invalid", was the
>the message i believe).

You're probably too late.  Most likely the news server has already
deleted the article from the newsgroup directory.

--
Steve Bacher (Batchman)                 Draper Laboratory
Internet: seb@draper.com                Cambridge, MA, USA
From: tibbs@math.uh.edu (Jason L Tibbitts III)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Printing Postscript thumbnails?  Mpage doesn't work.
Date: 11 Nov 92 03:50:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: karazm.TIBBS.92Nov10215014
Organization: Blob Shop Programmers

I'm looking for a program to take a postscript file and print it with
several pages on one physical page (hopefully up to 32 thumbnails).  I have
mpage, but even though it advertises that it works on postscript files, it
doesn't.  I think it produces bad postscript code, because it does grind
for a while and actually spool something to the printer, but nothing
prints.  (It works fine on text files, though.)

Is there anything else out there that will do what I'm after?

Thanks!
--
 Jason L. Tibbitts III - tibbs@math.uh.edu - 713/743-3466 - 685PGH
System Administrator:  University of Houston Mathematics Department
 Houston Centers for Advanced Scientific and Molecular Computation
Blob Shop Programmers: Database consulting and graphics programming
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo)
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD?
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:48:20 GMT

papresco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Prescod) writes:
>>Unix *IS* different from DOS.  Different does not mean more difficult.
>>With the orthagonality of Unix commands, online help, etc, one could
>>even argue that for the first time user, Unix is even EASIER to use
>>than DOS.

>Why can't help be accessed with the HELP command?  I thought that was a

I've just called a UNIX BBS, I think he's using ISC (?).
There is a 'help' command (which he said came with the OS). It's
a nice help system, mucho better than DOS HELP command.

>>Now please explain why case sensitivity is dumb?  

>Sorry, my Unix editor mangled your message.  The case where case
>sensitivity is useful are SO RARE, and even where it is used, it
>usually shouldn't be.  

Oh, in our gopher server we use uppercase/lowercase/space as
part of filenames. Looks better. Why shouldn't I use it.
"Meeting Summary" is clearer than meetsum.txt, right ?

>My question is when is there going
>to be a version for the PC that comes out of the box graphical, user friendly,
>and with good support when you get stuck.
I thought SCO has done a very good job.
-- budi
-- 
Budi Rahardjo <Budi_Rahardjo@UManitoba.Ca>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: sfkaplan@unix.amherst.edu (Scott Kaplan)
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD?
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 00:25:22 GMT

I think I can speak for someone who finds comes from the simpler worlds of Mac
OS and DOS, and finds UNIX to be almost incomprehensibly complex and huge.  My
first inclination was that, hey, UNIX should be easier to use like my Mac.
The more I think about it, the more I think that would be a terrible mistake.

I am all for the production of machines that are made for the end user.  I
have a strong belief that the majority of people should not have to know much
at all about the inner workings of a computer (unless they want to) in order
to get their work done quickly and with as little pain as possible.  The
computer should be their tool.  Programming these machines isn't that easy, as
all those extra steps that the machine is taking care of for the user had to
be account for by the programmer.  I am happy to use my Mac for most of my
everyday work.  It's even good for doing some programming, as it's right here
in my room, it's cheaper, and I have a nice C compiler for it.

But the more I learn and the more complicated the things I need to do become,
the more I appreciate what UNIX is...It is meant for those who don't want a
suger-coated OS.  They want something where, unless they specify otherwise,
they will be working at a level where everything is in reach.  They are aware
that they will have to learn and remember more in order to do what they want,
and that the UNIX they love to use every day is not for everyone and will
probably not take the average computing world by storm...But they have a need
for complete control and awareness over everything they do, and no other OS
gives you that kind of complete control.  Moreover, no other OS gives you such
a huge array of tools and such power.  It's not for everyone.  Sure, you could
put a nice face on it, but why?  For my everyday use, the Mac OS has enough
capability for what I'm doing.  It could be UNIX underneath, but the average
user would never know...why waste the power?

Leave UNIX to the people who find the need for the power it offers.  Other
OS's for common computing are getting better all the time and will do the job
they were designed for.  Trying to make UNIX into the universal OS for every-
thing would be an attempt to make it into something it was never meant to be.
And if you do want to use the power of UNIX, dig in a learn...If you have a
task that requires its power, you really shouldn't be put out by the amount
you have to learn to get it to work for you.  You should be admiring how much
it can do and wondering how you can make it do more.

Scott Kaplan
Amherst College
sfkaplan@cs.amherst.edu
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: scott@degenerate.ee.udel.edu (Doke)
Subject: where can I get a decompiler?
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 03:14:22 GMT


    Anybody know where I can find decompilers for sparcs 
and sun3s?  

					    Thanks,
					    Doke Scott
					    scott@udel.edu

Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: hiren@teknetix.com(Hiren Shah)
Subject: Who are you?  You have no entry in /etc/utmp!  Aborting...
Organization: Technetix
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 17:40:10 GMT

Hello:

Sometime back the talk command stopped working:

It comes back with the following msg:

Who are you?  You have no entry in /etc/utmp!  Aborting...

the file /etc/utmp is a data file.

Any ideas as to what may be broken and/or how can it be fixed.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Hiren

Please mail to:

hiren@teknetix.com



Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo)
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD?
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:04:46 GMT

peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser) writes:

...
>Ever tried to run X binaries without running X? I just did (xterm): Error:
>can't open Display. Anyway, I can run a DOS executable under DR DOS, which is
>a DOS clone. Many UNIXes don't allow this.

Not a good analogy. A better one would be ever tried to run a Windows
program without running MS-Windows (ie from DOS) ?

-- budi
-- 
Budi Rahardjo <Budi_Rahardjo@UManitoba.Ca>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba
From: Josef Moellers <mollers.pad@sni.de>
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: 2nd time:How to remove files?
Date: 12 Nov 1992 16:46:48 +0100
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf Informationssysteme AG, Paderborn, Germany
NNTP-Posting-Host: uranium.sto.pdb.sni.de
Keywords: remove, unix, corefiles

In <Nov.11.13.41.20.1992.909@skynyrd.rutgers.edu> puchalek@skynyrd.rutgers.edu (michael) writes:


>	I posted this article in comp.unix.questions with a narrow
>distribution, so I am reposting with a wider range. If you see it
>twice, sorry.

>I keep getting files added to my working directory such as 'xerrors'
>and '.nfs***'. If I put a line in my .login that says 'rm xerrors', a
>'xerrors:no such file' message appears every time I log in. If I leave
>the 'rm xerrors' line out of my .login, the 'xerrors' file starts to
>show up in my root directory.  The '.nfs***' files appear whenever I
>am working in the text editor, emacs in this case. I have uncommented 
>the line 'limit coredumpsize 0' in my .login.  Any suggestions? If it is 
>more convenient to email, that's fine.

I can't say anything about "xerrors", but as far as ".nfs***" is
concerned:
NFS is a stateless system. That means that neither the server, nor the
client can assume anything about the state of the other side.

One of the things the server is not allowed to know is the idea of "open
files" on the client's side. Therefore, whenever the client opens a file
on an NFS-mounted file system, and subsequently unlinks the file
_before_ closing it, the client cannot completely remove the entry from
the directory, as this might be the last reference to the file and the
server (who doesn't know the file is still open on the client's side)
will remove the file, freeing all disk blocks that are/were allocated to
the file. UNIX's notion is, however, that the file remains on disk
_until the file is closed for the last time_, i.e. until either the
process closes the file or the process dies (closing the file
implicitly).
In order to allow the file to remain open and still "free" the directory
entry (or at least allow the file's name to be re-used), the NFS client
silently renames the file to ".nfs<number>", where <number> is generated
automagically. When the process closes the file, the NFS client software
will detect this and send an "unlink" command to the server which will
then _really_ remove the file and free up all disk space.

This will also pop up when You "open" the last file in a directory, then
"unlink" it and then try to "rmdir" the directory it is in.
Under S5 or UFS file systems, this works OK: the directory is gone.
Under NFS, You'll get a "directory not empty" error, and when You look:
voila! It's empty! B-{)

Does this make sense to You?

I assume that "xerrors" is created by some X-windows product and removed
whenever the product terminates. So, why worry?
-- 
| Josef Moellers		| c/o Siemens Nixdorf Informationssysteme AG  |
|  USA: mollers.pad@sni-usa.com	| Abt. STO-XS 113	   | Riemekestrasse   |
| !USA: mollers.pad@sni.de	| Phone: (+49) 5251 835124 | D-4790 Paderborn |
From: peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD?
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 11:09:07 GMT
Organization: Global Village 1

idf@cs.bham.ac.uk (Ian Fitchet) writes:

> Part of the beauty of *NIX is that I can heap together a large number
>of different utilities in a single command line using pipes to achieve
>my desired result.

But YOU think that way, users don't. UNIX provides tools, but there is no law
that says that you should use those tools. If I want a chair to sit on, I can
make it with a hammer, screwdriver, etc. But it'll take knowledge about wood
and the tools. I can also buy a chair in a shop, even though I have a hammer,
screwdriver, etc. Users buy applications and use them, they don't use the basic
tools with which the applications were made. And if we look at Windows 3.x,
OS/2, the Mac, ST, Amiga, etc., we see that it *IS* possible to use a machine
without much knowledge about it's inner workings. The problem with UNIX is that
noone has yet bothered to make such a system.

>But
>that's where the GUI's flexiblity ends.  I would find it very strange
>if someone told me they would prefer using a GUI to move all .c and .h
>files than a command line shell (mv *.[ch] vs. some indeterminate
>amount of searching for the files in question, adding to the current
>selection then point, click, deag, release).

Most users don't need that much flexibility. How many users know more of e.g.
MS-DOS than to start their applications (and utilities like PC-TOOLS)? Most
users I know prefer menu driven programs over command driven programs. A GUI
is menu driven and therefore a GUI meets the user's needs best.

>Give us a GUI that does and I can't
>see many people failing to switch to it.

All UNIX GUI's I know provide a mean to start a virtual terminal (aka xterm,
commandtool, etc.). Why not have the best of both worlds?
From: maschepe@thama1.apgea.army.mil (Michael A. Schepers)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: tar piped to a dd
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:16:30 GMT

Hi,

     I use the "tar" command piped to a "rsh dd" to archive files on
     one system to a tape drive on another system.  Everything seems to
     execute fine, however certain diagnostic messages are printed out
     at the end of the transfer that may (or may not) be important.

     The command I use is:
         Pyramid> tar cvfB - * | rsh cdc4360 dd of=/dev/exabyte obs=20b

     The diagnostic message is:
         688104+32486 records in
         35358+1 records out

     Now, I understand from the dd man page that this message indicates
     f+p records in(out): numbers of full and partial records
     read(written).  Should I be concerned that these numbers are not
     identical?  Can anyone give me a more in depth explanation of the
     diagnostic messages??

Thanks for your help,
Mike Schepers.

Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions,alt.folklore.computers
From: stevev@miser.uoregon.edu (Steve VanDevender)
Subject: Re: Whence Unix? (was Re: IS UNIX DEAD?) (New Thread?)
Organization: University of Oregon Chemistry Stores
	<1du8ooINNha5@armory.centerline.com> <1dvltdINN6i4@skat.usc.edu>
Date: 13 Nov 92 10:07:27

In article <1dvltdINN6i4@skat.usc.edu> jlowrey@skat.usc.edu (John 'Fritz' Lowrey) writes:

	   Folks,
	   Since it is now fairly clear that text processing and/or game
   playing became important uses for Unix early on.  I also seem to recall
   that curses(3) was developed in part so that HACK could be made terminal
   independent.

curses(3) was developed for rogue(6).  hack, and then NetHack,
came much later.  But this isn't your biggest historical goof.

	   So, a new thread perhaps: what other now-major (or was-major)
   tools, operating systems, or hardware were developed for use in a 
   sub-mission critical or downright frivilous application, and later
   became standards far removed from the initial intent?

	   My seed:
	   Microsoft DOS	->	Intended as a stepping stone while DR 
				   wrapped up CP/M-86, and now the program
				   loader of choice for countless millions. 

You really need to study up on your computing history.  You seem
to imply that Microsoft got MS-DOS from Digital Research.
Microsoft got MS-DOS from a small firm called Seattle Computer,
which had written a quick-and-dirty CP/M clone called SC-DOS.
Then Microsoft hacked it up and marketed the hell out of it.

I don't have any examples for this thread, but if you are going
to contribute, at least get your facts right.
--
Steve VanDevender 	stevev@greylady.uoregon.edu
"Bipedalism--an unrecognized disease affecting over 99% of the population.
Symptoms include lack of traffic sense, slow rate of travel, and the
classic, easily recognized behavior known as walking."
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dave Eisen)
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD?
Organization: Sequoia Peripherals, Inc.
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 17:51:37 GMT

In article <BxA67v.G3y@unix.amherst.edu> pfcouvar@unix.amherst.edu (Peter F. Couvares) writes:
>papresco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Prescod) writes:
>>[...]
>>Some things that have to be change about unix before it reaches that place:
>
>>2. It should have a powerful command line.
>
>	Are you really an idiot or do you just play one on Usenet?

Now be fair.

I assume the original poster knows what kind of command line Unix
has. This requirement must be taken in tandem with requirement
number 1: an easy to learn GUI. What he was saying is that Unix
has to improve by including a good GUI without losing the powerful
command line it currently has.


-- 
Dave Eisen                               Sequoia Peripherals: (415) 967-5644
dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU              Home:                (415) 321-5154
       There's something in my library to offend everybody. 
          --- Washington Coalition Against Censorship
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: poohbear@solaria.mil.wi.us (Timothy Winslow)
Subject: rn help
Organization: /usr/u0/poohbear/.organization
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:28:33 GMT

I use rn (please do not try to convince me to use another reader, I am happy
I use rn, and don't care to switch).

I need a small favor of someone.  Can you please tell me how to shut off
subject search mode?  It always turns this on, and I hate it.  I prefer
reading messages in a forward newsgroup item number manor.

Please write e-mail, as I do not read this group.

Thank you.

-- 
Weird Al is a God!					CO Life is for me!
       poohbear@solaria.mil.wi.us                  or 
                                    Timothy_Winslow@solaria.mil.wi.us
Life is strange, but so are you!			I like me!    :P
From: ioi@pixmap.seas.upenn.edu (Ioi Kim Lam)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD? (long)
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:07:37 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


> Try: power.  With a command line, you can do exactly what you want to
> do (assuming the requisite knowledge) without being limited and slowed
> by predefined options and nice windows.


Let's look at the future, not the past. Command line was and still is a
nice interface element. However, try to move a window using command line.
Tell the MS Word user to use key-strokes to do the cut-and-paste.

Command line has its advantage, and so does GUI and any other kind of user
interface. These different types of user interfaces are complementary to
each other, and we still need a hell lot of development in order to
render the power of the computer to all the users. Don't think that by
insisting on using the command line ONLY you are defending the future of Unix.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
   " Before the computer scientist was executed, he still
     insisted that Unix was equal to VI, CSH and EMACS. "

--


========================================      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
IOI LAM ( footnote : the Binary Man )  |      |  ( . )    ( . )   |  
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo)
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD? (long)
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:58:41 GMT

papresco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:

...
>Microsoft has a  *PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE* built into word.  I can't
>imagine why someone would prefer a command line to keystrokes
>and requester windows. 	

For people with disabilities and for people without a mouse.
Suppose I have to add "," at the end of every line in a file with 1000 lines.
How do yo do that with that "PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE" ?
It's really simple with vi.

...
>>>Why do I have 12 function keys on my keyboard that seem to do absolutely
>>>nothing?
>>
>>dumb question is this?  Are you blaming your keyboard manufacturer's
>>ills on Unix, or are you incoherently expecting that Unix assign some
>>sort of meaning to every key assignable?

>No it's not a dumb question.  There is no standard for help in the Unix
>world.  The f keys are seldom used in unix programs.  Most terminals
>have f keys.  It would seem this would be a good time to start convincing
>people to use F1 for help, n'est ce pas?

How about terminals without F keys ? How about different keyboards send
different key sequence for F1 ? We still have many terminals without F keys.

...
>>>Is there a wordwrap mode in VI?  And if so, why doesn't it kick in when I
>>>use VI from RN?
>>
>>a) yes.  b) because your .exrc file is not set up correctly.

>How often does someone want to edit news without word wrap?  Wouldn't that
>make it logical to put word wrap in the standard .exrc file?

vi is programmer's editor. For composing short text try other text
editors (like pico, ce, and joe).

...
>Because they are not stupid questions.  They are good questions.  Obviously
>VI has flaws.  Obviously unix has flaws.  Everything has flaws.  It is
>frightening the way many Unix users refuse to admit that Unix has flaws.

To you it looks like a flaw, to me it's a feature. Have you ever tried 
deleting 400 lines in a 4000-line file ? Try that with GUI, with vi
it's as simple as 400dd. I mean with GUI I have to hold the mouse
and scroll several pages ...

>If you launch an editor from VI, that editor should be a wordprocessor.  If
>it is vi, vi should be in wordprocess mode.  If it doesn't, that is a flaw.

Why should it be a wordprocessor ? If you want to edit a 10 lines text file
would you start Microsoft Word for Windows ?

>If help does nothing at the command prompt.  That is a flaw.

Not on my machine.

>If the cursor keys are illogical that is a flaw.

Don't understand what you mean there ...

>Anything can be improved if we discuss the flaws and discuss ways to improve
>them.  If we treat those that notice flaws as blasphemers, we all end up
>using 1970s text editors in 1992, and unix dies.

What kind of improvement do you want ? We (at least in our network) have
it all.  UNIX will eventually die, but not this decade pal.


-- budi
-- 
Budi Rahardjo <Budi_Rahardjo@UManitoba.Ca>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba
From: peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD?
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 10:50:14 GMT
Organization: Global Village 1

harley@engrhub.ucsb.edu (Harley Hahn) writes:

>on almost every platform in the world.  What do OS/2 and NT run 
>on?  Do they even run at all.  OS/2 is an iffy thing and NT is 
>'AIRWARE' from the champion of feeble software.

IBM sold 1.3 milion copies of OS/2 v2.0. So I guess it's not an 'iffy thing'.

Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: peter@merlin.acadiau.ca (Peter Steele)
Subject: Has anyone installed uniquid?
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 12:42:02 GMT

I recently learned of a package called uniquid for managing
unique user id's across multiple Unix systems. I picked up
the source but haven't beem able to get it to build. Has
anyone tried installing this package?
--
Peter Steele        Unix Services Manager            peter.steele@acadiau.ca 
Acadia Univ., Wolfville, NS, Canada B0P 1X0  902-542-2201  Fax: 902-542-4364