HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mannj@acf9.nyu.edu (Jordan Mann)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Possible privatization of Bezek
Date: 30 Dec 92 18:02:37 GMT
Organization: New York University

jweber@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (jodi.weber) writes:

>A piece of an article from today's New York Times (this is all I have):

>"Clal Industries of Israel and Southwestern Bell International Development
>will bid for a controlling interest in Bezeq, the Israeli telecommunications
>concern, Clal said yesterday."

I wonder if this will improve service.  From what little understanding I have
of economics, privatization alone may make a company more efficient, but
without competition it won't make a company any more responsive to the
customer.  A privately-owned phone company without competition will 
probably try to raise rates *and* cut serivces to the bare minimum.  

On the other hand, local phone companies in the US do respectable job, 
even though they're monopolies.  For example, it still takes a few weeks to
get a phone installed in Israel, but in America it takes a few days.  I wonder
what makes the American companies good to their customers.  Regulations,
perhaps.

>Jodi Weber
--
Jordan Mann at NYU      (mannj@cims.nyu.edu)
From: sg04@gte.com (Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Synagogue Music
Date: 29 Dec 92 20:56:53 GMT
Reply-To: sg04@gte.com
Organization: GTE Laboratories, Inc.

In article 9469@cbnewsl.cb.att.com, saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
]In article <199212272136.AA15280@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> <Murray Kahl
]<kahl@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>> writes:
]
]>As far the Hoadert... Lchai Olamim... which is sung to the French tune
]>of the Marseillese, this was adopted by the Rebbe Shlita (the current
]>Rebbe) a number of years ago.
]
]I understood this had something to do with the time he spent at the
]Sorbonne getting a degree in engineering.

No, there is no direct connection. This niggun was adopted about 10
years ago. The Rebbe started singing it at a fabrengen where there
was a large group from France. It was quite unexpected, and took
a while before people caught on. Since then, the Rebbe has spoken
about the significance of "re-using" the French national song to
further Judiasm. Also he has related this to the general "reformation"
of France from a place of rampant secularism to one with a large
and growing observant community with numerous Yeshiva's and other
Jewish institutions.

The Rebbe got his 4 PhD's from the Sorbonne in the 1940's which
was quite a while prior to this.

In the spirit of the s.c.j joke lists:

Paris used to be called a city full of Yirat Shemayim.

Why?

Because, most who went there abandonded their Yirat Shemayim there.


---
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund		 		  sgutfreund@gte.com
GTE Laboratories, Waltham MA			    harvard!bunny!sgutfreund
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Hannuka as a minor holiday
Date: 24 Dec 1992 02:18:36 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/trn/lib/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu


Not only is Hanukkah not mentioned in the Torah, it's not mentioned
in the Bible, unless you accept along with critical scholars that
parts of Daniel and perhaps a few Psalms date from the Hasmonean
era.

-- 
________________________________________
Jack F. Love	| 	Opinions expressed are mine alone.
		|	(Unless you happen to agree.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
From: eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41)
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Reply-To: eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu
Organization: MIT Lincoln Lab - Group 41
	<EGGERTJ.92Dec30223711@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu>
	<1993Jan1.084249.143@vms.huji.ac.il>
Date: 1 Jan 93 18:36:28

In article <1993Jan1.084249.143@vms.huji.ac.il> backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
>   Guilt by association ?  Let's see:
>
>   "On April 26, 1945 the American Joint Chiefs of Staff sent a directive to the
>   U.S. commander subjecting the following ten groups to automatic arrest:
>
>   1. Party officials down to Ortsgruppenleiter;
>... [items to number 10 deleted for brevity]
>   [From: J.C.S. Directive 1067/6 to Commander-in-Chief of U.S. Forces of
>   Occupation, April 26, 1945, in report of U.S. Military Governor,
>   DENAZIFICATION, 1948, pp. 14-16]
>
>   For your information, VOLUNTARY MEMBERSHIP ALONE made one liable to criminal
>   prosecution.  Please note # 8: "Nazi sympathizers".         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>   What  were you saying about  "guilt by association" ???

Arrest does not imply guilt.  Guilt is established in a court of law,
not by a (military) policeman.

Now were the Palestinian deportees criminally prosecuted at all?  Nope.
They were punished without a trial, and in a manner that violates
international law.

Next time, please try to make your arguments make sense.
--
=Jim  eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Israel must return the deportees!
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 15:17:12 GMT

gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler) writes:

>dat@ukc.ac.uk (D.A.Turner) writes:

>> Second, I do not accept that Hamas are a terrorist organisation.  Up  to
>> now they have killed only Israeli soldiers or policemen in uniform.  For
>> many years Israel has stood in illegal occupation of Palestinian  lands,
>> and  several  thousand  unarmed  Palestinian men women and children have
>> been killed by  Israeli  forces.   When  Hamas  starts  killing  Israeli
>> civilians  they will have sunk to the level of the Zionist state, but up
>> to now they seem to be operating on a higher moral standard.

>Let me get this straight.  Kidnapping a policeman and then murdering
>him shows a high moral standard, right?  And summary execution of other
>Palestinians does the same, right?  Personally, I feel deportation to
>be indicative of a higher moral standard than wanton murder.  Silly me.

>If the Israelis are so evil and Hamas so cuddly and cute, why are so
>many more Palestinians killed by their own people than by Israelis
>in the Intifada?

>Let me be clear.  I'm not condoning Israeli actions, but I'm just a
>bit curious about your morality scale.

>-Don Gertler

    Don, why don't you ask that guy if the Ramat Ef'al people who spent
one early Shabbath morning a few weeks ago watching the police handling a 
car full of explosives, which had been intercepted thanks to a volunteer
guard, and of which THREE HAMAS PEOPLE tried to run away and were arrested,
were police/soldiers? What humanitarian act had they planned with this car?
By luck, they couldn't escape when discovered because they had driven their
car into a dead end of that residential area....
    Don, why don't you ask that guy if he has seen on TV (CNN, as far as I
remember, retransmitted by Israeli news), the day when Nissim Toledano's
body was found, a HAMAS leader in Lebanon explaining that the murder of
Toledano was an humanitarian act?
    Don, I know the answer. There are better things to do than answering
people who just don't want to hear or see.

    Hazaq, Don.
    Yaaqov
From: gswst@cislabs.pitt.edu (Gary S. Wachs)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Car for sale
Date: 1 Jan 93 22:55:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: blue.1306
Organization: University of Pittsburgh, Electrical Engineering

WHAT:     1979 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royale for sale
 
PRICE:    $1500
 
CONTACT:  363-0252
 
DETAILS:
 Engine:  1 year old rebuilt 301V8 with 6000 miles accumulated.
          Original technician owned, factory 4 barrel manifold with Holley
          replacement 4 barrel carburetor model 4360, list 0-9865 (including
          a Holley rebuilt kit)
 
 Body:    4 door rear wheel drive `full sized' sedan.
          Frame and body solid, decent gas mileage.
 
 Accessories:  Air conditioning, tilt wheel, AM/FM radio, add-on rear 
               anti-sway bar from Addco Industries. 
 
 Transmission: Usual 350 THM automatic transmission (with add-on tranny
               cooler)
 
 Options: I will gladly install `3rd brake light' and cruise control (free
          labor) if desired.  I'm a licensed automotive technician.
 
I am delaying having it inspected until it is sold.  I guarantee it will
pass.

Call 363-0252
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 22:37:38 GMT

hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
> starr-daniel@yale.edu (Daniel Starr) writes:

> >What this demonstrates is that there is no guarantee that the Orthodox
> >interpretation of the Torah (et al) is the right one.  All that is clear is
> >that it is the one that demands the greatest restrictions on behavior.  It
> >is _not_ the most literal interpretation possible -- witness the milk-and-meat
> >prohibition.  Merely the generally most conservative and restrictive.
> 
> I will not even go along with this statement.  There are a few situations in
> which the Orthodox will permit what I, a Reform Jew, will not permit.  In
> particular, I read the Shabbath commandment in such a way that the "Shabbos
> Goy" practice of the stetl is in direct contradiction to it.  Now SOMETHING
> had to be done in that climate, but not that!  There are other interpretations
> on this commandment which I will observe, but the Orthodox claim does not 
> violate it.

One would have to be a fool to say that Orthodox Judaism is more
restrictive of every aspect of behavior than any individual Reform
Jew's preferences dictate.  A Reform Jew may choose to be a strict
macrobiotic, for example.  But that is not "Reform" Judaism.  That is
choice.  If that's what Reform Judaism is -- choice to do whatever
one chooses -- then O will always be more restrictive.  Certainly
R can choose to restrict, but he/she can also choose to loosen
those restrictions at will.  With O, it's not so "easy."

> The Reform position is not that of laxity, but of study and interpretation.
> It does differ in that the Oral Law is not considered to have been given to
> Moshe, and I do not see why such a body of law would not have been written
> down if it were from God, and my own reading of the Sefer Torah is that 
> there are parts in which God must at least have been misquoted.  But Reform
> does not say that the sages are not to be considered, just that they are
> not to be followed as if their words came from God Himself.

But is the Torah itself to be followed as if the "words came from G-d
Himself"?  Simply put, does Judaism contain a legal system?  Reading
what you want, when you want to, and then doing what you choose does
not constitute much of a legal structure, IMHO.

-Don Gertler
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:24001 soc.culture.arabic:5937
From: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: deportation
Date: 27 Dec 1992 03:29:33 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) says:

>In article <1hi4abINNie3@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:
> 
>#  wc4209@writer.yorku.ca (Irene Berkovich) writes:
> 
># >Funny, I don't recall seeing any posts from you shedding your
># >crocodile tears when Kuwait expelled over 100,000 Palestinian
># >residents after the Gulf war.  Mind you, these were not people
># >inciting others to murder like the Hamas boys.  They were kicked out
># >just for being Palestinian.  And not a peep from you, or any of the
># >hippocrates at the United Nations who routinely ignore Arab civil
># >rights abuse.
> 
># >But I guess thats okay.  Arabs are allowed to kill, or expel one
># >another by your logic.  You only scream when Israel is involved.
> 
># However there is a difference here.  In Kuwait, Palestinians were
># not kicked from their homeland.  In Israel, Palestinians were kicked
># from Gaza Strip and West Bank.  
>
>	They were kicked out of Judea and Samaria.  Parts of the eternal
>Jewish homeland.  And if they wanted to stay, they had no business
>joining Hamas.
>

They have the business to be palestinian collaborators or deport them
all whether they are convicted of joining Hamas or not.

># If some jews argue Gaza Strip and West Bank are not for Palestinians,
># then we come to the root question that is: Where jews came from and where
># palestinians came from?  The outsiders vs. the insiders..
>
>	Jews come from that land.  The "palestinians?" come from Arab
>invasions.

Where were the jews when Arabs invaded palestine?  Did the Arabs
also invade Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, and Lebanon? 

>
># Palestine is NOT "a land without a nation for a nation with out land."
>
>	Correct.  "palestine?" does not exist.  It never has.

Does that mean the "palestine" in the bible was a fiction? 

-- 
                  ___________________ cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu _____________
                 (______   _  |   _  |_
_____ H A M Z A ________) |-| |_ |-| | |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
From: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Israel must return the deportees!
Organization: University of Toronto - Office of the Provost
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 02:35:41 GMT

In article <530@owl.ukc.ac.uk> dat@ukc.ac.uk (D.A.Turner) writes:

>Israel must return the 410 deportees!

>The deportees are not terrorists.  They  are  innocent  people,  against
>whom  no  charge  has  been brought in an open court.  They are doctors,
>teachers, lawyers.  Twelve of them are lecturers  from  one  university.

Being a doctor, teacher or a lawyer doesn't make one innocent, nor more
likely to be innocent.  George Habash, leader of the PFLP, is a medical
doctor, for example.

>Their real crime is that they are leaders of their people.

Elected when?  They certainly seem uninterested in continuing the process
towards elections.  Maybe they don't think they'll win.

>It is claimed that they  are  members  of  Hamas,  and  similar  Islamic
>groups,  and that Hamas is a terrorist organisation.  First, no evidence
>that they are members of Hamas has been offered in open court.  The case
>was  heard  in  a closed military court, in which the men's laywers were
>not allowed to see the  evidence.   The  so  called  process  of  appeal
>consisted  of  the same judges declaring themselves correct.  This would
>not be recognised as a proper legal process in any democratic country.

This particular bit of proper legal process was inherited from the British.
It is indeed legal in areas under military administration according to most
countries' military law.  In fact, the alleged Hamas members could
legally have been hanged by drumhead court martials.

Furthermore, they have the right to appeal under Israeli law.

In effect, they were deported rather than imprisoned awaiting trial.

>Second, I do not accept that Hamas are a terrorist organisation.  Up  to
>now they have killed only Israeli soldiers or policemen in uniform.  For
>many years Israel has stood in illegal occupation of Palestinian  lands,
>and  several  thousand  unarmed  Palestinian men women and children have
>been killed by  Israeli  forces.   When  Hamas  starts  killing  Israeli
>civilians  they will have sunk to the level of the Zionist state, but up
>to now they seem to be operating on a higher moral standard.

I will stipulate that killing soldiers or policemen is not terrorism.
I will accept that the people of Hamas are freedom fighters in a state
of war with Israel, and that when they attack soldiers and policemen, they
are soldiers fighting soldiers (international law does not agree with
me here -- I believe that under the Geneva Conventions it is illegal
for civilians to attack enemy soldiers).  So when an enemy soldier attacks
me, do I not retaliate?  Hamas attacks the IDF, should the IDF not
take some pre-emptive action in return?

If you look at the deportation as a pre-emptive military strike
against a military enemy, it seems rather nicer than possible
alternatives.

Aryk Nusbacher
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Halacha
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 16:21:44 GMT

In <1992Dec18.012939.18953@cas.org> rmt51@cas.org (Rick Turkel) writes:

>The "spirit of the law" is not to do any productive work on Shabbat.  Since
>the vast majority of tasks involving electricity are in that realm, we
>generalize to prohibit all of its uses.  Another example: the halacha forbids
>carrying in a public domain, but not in a private one.  However, despite the
>fact that there's no prohibition, I don't know too many halachic Jews who
>would rearrange their furniture on Shabbat.

If extra guests came over on Shabbat, I would not imagine that I would
be at all in violation of the spirit of Shabbat if I moved some
furniture into another room, went to a neighbor (within the eruv, of
course) to get some more chairs (as long as I didn't drag a heavy
stack of them across a dirt floor), moved the table away from the
wall, or other acts of this sort.

I still don't see how if we could get electricity to do something
which we could do on Shabbat manually, in such a way that we were sure
that no melachot were violated along the way, that this would
constitute a violation of the spirit of Shabbat.  I don't know how
this would differ from putting food back on the blech (given that all
necessary conditions are met), even though fire usually is used to
cook.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          "If there really was a Jewish conspiracy to run the
 |__/__/_/        world, my rabbi would have let me in on it by now.
 |warren@         I contribute enough to the shule."
/ nysernet.org 			    Saul Goodman
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hem@col400.att.com (Hillel E. Markowitz)
Subject: Re: How Do You Spell (C)Han(n)uk(k)a(h) in English?
Originator: news@cbnewsf.cb.att.com
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 19:07:21 GMT

In article <1hvb7pINN1rd@FRIDGE.AI.CS.YALE.EDU> engelson-sean@cs.yale.edu writes:
>
>In article <9212311544.AA15377@cyclone.sbi.com>, gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler) writes:
>|> afrydman@granpa.enet.dec.com (Avi Frydman) writes:
>|> > drukier@cast0.ast.cam.ac.uk (Gordon Drukier) writes...
>|> > > waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker) writes:
>|> 
>|> >   Anyone for a side-thread to see how many variant spellings we
>|> > >can come up with? Let's see...
>|> 	..........
>|> Using the Subject line's example, we would have 2^4 possibilities:
>|> 
>|> Ch-/H-      -nn-/-n-     -kk-/-k-     -ah/-a
>|>  1  0         1   0        1   0        1  0
>
>I used a couple more variants gleaned from this discussion (and
>others) to come up with what I believe to be the truly definitive set.
>Admittedly, some of them look pretty weird, but remember, they're all
>Legitimate(tm)...
>
>Chanuka		Chanukah	Chanukka

You forgot all the "ck" variants like Chanucka so add them to the
list.

-- 
____________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz    |     Im ain ani li mi li    |
| H_Markowitz@att.com | Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha |
|_____________________|____________________________|
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:24211 soc.culture.arabic:6030
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: deportation
Date: 29 Dec 92 21:42:00 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Dec27.011409.23888@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>
>	They were kicked out of Judea and Samaria.  Parts of the eternal
>Jewish homeland.  And if they wanted to stay, they had no business
>joining Hamas.

I thought you admitted (not too long ago) that Judea and Samaria does
not officially exist!  Why do you continue to promote this?

>	Jews come from that land.  The "palestinians?" come from Arab
>invasions.

What??  Does this sound like brainwashing or what!

>	Correct.  "palestine?" does not exist.  It never has.

This says it all.  Maybe we should refer you to something that is a
little more familiar to you ... the Bible.  Then come back and tell us
that Palestine has never existed.
 
Anisa

	"We just hope that the Israelis will reciprocate and will
	not continue to create such painful and aggrevating conditions
	on the ground that need to further hostilities and feed the
	cycle of violence.  The occupation is an abnormal, distorting
	condition.  It has to come to an end.  And I think only then
	will you see an end to violence."
						Hanan Ashwari
				Interview on ABC World News/12-16-92
From: tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Don't waste your time
Date: 21 Dec 92 20:46:05 GMT
Organization: AL/HRTI, Brooks AFB

On Sat, 19 Dec 1992 21:37:03 GMT, mk568652@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Mitchell Kotler) said:

M> Merry Christmas

	Doesn't this strike anyone as terribly crass?

	I'd say something about "true colors" but I shouldn't.

-- Cerebus <tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil>
"And a Merry Pagan Idolatry to you too, Mitch."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
From: eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41)
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Reply-To: eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu
Organization: MIT Lincoln Lab - Group 41
	<EGGERTJ.92Dec30223711@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu>
	<1993Jan1.084249.143@vms.huji.ac.il>
	<EGGERTJ.93Jan1183628@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu> <isaac.
	<isaac.726104613@etrog>
Date: 3 Jan 93 21:48:18

In article <isaac.726104613@etrog> isaac@etrog.se.citri.edu.au (Dr Isaac Balbin) writes:
>   eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41) writes:
>
>   >Not quite.  A court of law determined that the deportations could go
>   >forward, but that the government would have to provide grounds for
>   >such deportations within a specified time.  A strange way to deport
>   >someone, I think, to first do it and then post facto to justify it.
>   QED nonetheless. The deportations were legally ratified.

This is at best judicial noninterference, and certainly not legal
ratification.

>   >>   >Now were the Palestinian deportees criminally prosecuted at all?  Nope.
>   >>   >They were punished without a trial, and in a manner that violates
>   >>   >international law.
>   >>   Debateable. 
>
>   >If that is the extent of your debate, you won't get very far.
>   Area under martial law? Did you factor that into your equation.

Which part of the equation does this impact on?  The absence of
trials?  No trial was held in a military court.  The violation of
international law?  The international law (Geneva Convention) is meant
in particular to apply to areas under military occupation.
--
=Jim  eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: amarkel@encore.com (Arieh Markel)
Subject: Re: A self-confessed silly thread: Jewish Rock/Pop Stars
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 14:28:54 GMT

waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker) writes:

>> >>Barry Manilow
>> >>Barbra Streisand
>> >>Neil Diamond
>> >>Danny Elfman (drummer, Oingo Boingo)
>> Howard Kaylan and Mark Volman (The Turtles, Flo and Eddie)
>> Dick Dale (60's surf guitarist)
>> Max Weinberg (drummer for the E Street Band)
>> Rachel Sweet
>> Phil Spector (producer of the Ronettes, Righteous Brothers et al...)
>Billy Joel

Paul Shaffer


Arieh
-- 
 Arieh Markel		  		        Tel: (305)-797-2403
 Encore Computer Corporation                    amarkel@encore.COM
 Optimizer & Instruction Scheduler Group        uunet!gould!amarkel
 Ft. Lauderdale, FL