HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dan@jonas.berkeley.edu (dan graves)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: U.S. territories vs. Israel territories
Date: 29 Jul 1992 15:23:48 GMT
Organization: University of California Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: jonas.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Jul29.143532.1796@oakhill.sps.mot.com>, diaz@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Rafael Diaz) writes:
|> 
|> I would like to raise an issue of comparing U.S. territories vs.
|> Israel territories. To be more specific I will use the Island
|> of Guam in the South-East Pacific ocean.
|> 
|> * The people of Guam are U.S. citizens, but they have NO voting power
|>   in the presidential election.
|> 
|> * The people of the W.B. & Gaza are NOT Israeli citizens and have
|>   no voting power in the Israeli elections.
|> 
|> 
|>   Could somebody explain why is it O.K not to have presidential 
|>   voting power in U.S. territories?
|> 
|> 
|> -Rafy
|> 
|> -- 
|> ________________________________________________________________________
|> 		       __        _    
|>   =_   __   ___    =  /  )      / )   ==========   diaz@sigi.sps.mot.com
|>  =  ) /_ )     )  =  /--<  _  -/-     == oakhill!sigi!diaz@cs.utexas.edu

Are you certain that this is true?  i remember some coverage of
politics in Guam and Puerto Rico.   Email replies will be appreciated.

respectfully,

dan graves
dan@barkley.berkeley.edu
From: egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: ISRAEL JOINS THE CIVILIZED WORLD
Date: 29 Jul 92 08:39:00 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Jul27.232205.14134@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
=>In article <24152@castle.ed.ac.uk> egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
=>
=>>If this is the most profound criticism you can come up with, I think that
=>>says a lot about the bankruptcy of your position. Why don't you read a 
=>>little about your hero's dealings with the Nazis, and stop talking rubbish.
=>
=>Are you ignoring the questions on which "murderous gang" you allege Shamir 
=>to be a member of and how many people you believe they have killed recently
=>because you routinely ignore questions or because you know that you are 
=>dead wrong?

I said "is a member" instead of "was a member". So sue me. But I'm
interested to read your implication that there is a statute of limitations
on murder. I'm sure "Ivan the Terrible" (when the Israeli courts can
finally get the right guy on trial) will be interested to hear it.

=>>I think the part of Pee Wee's Big Adventure that you're trying to remember
=>>here went something like "I'm rubber and you're glue. Whatever you say
=>>bounces off me and sticks to you". Maybe you can re-view your video and
=>>find a new debating technique before posting again.
=>
=>I've never seen this film,

Ask your Mom to take you. Maybe if you promise not to squeal for ice-cream
she'll take you this time. I'd recommend you go on your own, but you'll
need to hide in her lap during the scary bits.

=>BTW, are you still incapable of recognizing the difference between terrorists
=>like Arafat and between politicians like the ones who get elected routinely 
=>in most countries?

zzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzzZZZZZ      <- onomatopoeic representation of Jeremy
                               falling asleep waiting for Livni to
                               catch up on the thread about Shamir's
                               1941 antics.

-- 
-Jeremy Henderson        egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk   

(or am I?)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Sinai/Taba (was: Withdrawl from Territories)
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 19:54:46 GMT

badr@sbbadr.cs.sunysb.edu (Hussein Badr) writes:
#
#   The Sinai deal was completed with the last stage of withdrawal in April
#1982. Taba was a "loose end" that was not resolved till 1989 (I'm almost
#sure, maybe 1990).
#
#  The Taba business is an interesting case study in unnecessary
#bloody-mindedness; Israel could have come out with a *much* better deal if it
#hadn't dug in so hard (At one stage of the negotiations, the Egyptians offered
#to lease Taba back to Israelis for 99 years if the latter would recognize
#Egyptian sovereignty over the place. Begin's answer was "And after 99 years,
#what?" !!!!!).

This is a somewhat skewed representation. Many Israelis, including leftist
ones, were enraged at the Egyptian insistence of "all of Sinai and not
one square inch less". One can understand that they wanted Taba for economical
reasons, but I find the insistence on the evacuation of Yamit an un-called
for vengence and stuborness. What the hell, the small city was stuck in
the middle of the desert, it didn't bother anyone and the Egyptians could
most definitly let it stay. It should be clear that if and when Israel
withdraws from the west bank, this pattern should not return.

-Danny Keren.



Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phillip M. Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: territories vs the territories
Reply-To: hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: DESY ZEUS Central Data Acquisition
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 03:14:18 GMT

In article <0eOrGre00WB28UcXJa@andrew.cmu.edu>, Radu Eugen Edelstein
<re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

|>Hallam writes:
|>I think that it is more enlightening to consider that no member of the
|>security council recognises the Israeli annexation of Eastern Jerusalem
|>
|>
|>I say:
|>According to what I know, the US does recognize Eastern Jerusalem as
|>part of Israel.  It is Jerusalem's status as capital of Israel that
|>the US has problems with.  I think someone recently posted something
|>similar to what I am saying.

Since I remember the immense panic after Gary Hart made his election
promise to move the US embassy to Jerusalem I can guarantee that this is
false. The US does not recognise the anexation of East Jerusalem.


Phill Hallam-Baker
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: FACTS EVERY ISRAEL BASHER MUST AVOID!
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:11:57 GMT
	<1992Jul20.220422.6838@wpi.WPI.EDU>
	<1992Jul22.054957.7925@mcs.kent.edu>
	<1992Jul23.215254.16589@colorado.edu>
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU's message of 23 Jul 92 21:52:54 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.215254.16589@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>
> In article <1992Jul22.054957.7925@mcs.kent.edu> rayes@Snake.mcs.kent.edu (Sandra Rayes) writes:
> >In article <1992Jul20.220422.6838@wpi.WPI.EDU> nyh@lektroid.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed) writes:
> >>
> >>	Stone dead is rather similar to bullet dead - inciting is not
> >>known to be a cause for an attempted murder.
> >>
> >Exactly HOW MANY Israeli's have been killed by a rock's being hurled
> >at them???  I can tell you that more the 1000 Palestinians have
> >ben killed since the Intifada.
>
> Approximately 100 Jews have been killed in the Intifada.

You appear to be avoiding the question.  How many Jews have been killed
BY A ROCK BEING HURLED AT THEM?

And while you're at it, how often should such deaths happen before it
would, in your opinion, be appropriate to refer to stones as "deadly
weapons"?  Also, give us an estimate of how many stones have been thrown
at people in the occupied territories during the period in which the
Jewish deaths you list have occurred.  For reference, you might wish to
compare the dangers of being attacked by such a stone to those of being
shot, just so we can put it all in prespective
--
Yigal Arens   "He seems like an average type of man.  He's not, like, smart.
USC/ISI        I'm not trying to bag on him or anything, but he has the same
arens@isi.edu  mentality I have -- and I'm in the eighth grade."     Vanessa
               Martinez, after VP Quayle's visit to her school-LA Times 5/21
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Re: Arf slanders me 
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:00:37 GMT
X-Disclaimer:  Material posted in this article is the sole responsibility of
                the poster and does not represent MCSNet or the system owners.

This seems to have gotton barfed up and I don't feel like retyping it...

 -> >

-> >I have never called your answering machine or your phone number.

-> >I have no idea what your are talking about.  If you are getting

-> >obscene phone calls then call the police, the tape you have is

-> >evidence.  Your phone # isn't even in the Phone book I have, so the

->

-> >only place I would have seen it is when you posted it, and I haven't

->

-> >saved that post or copied the number down.  I have never called you a

->

-> >Nazi on the net or anywhere else. And I didn't start using Usenet

->

-> >until January of this year, so I never heard about you or read anythin

->

-> >you had written till then, so the 3-year things makes no sense.

->

-> >

->

-> >ARF, I don't know if you are just lying here, or being paranoid, or

->

-> >what.  But you accused me of a crime.  You have 24 hours to retract it

->

-> >I have never called you.  I'll sign an affidavit or take a polygraph.

->

-> >If you tell the police or anyone else that *I* called you, you better

->

-> >have the best lawyer in the city, because I will sue you and I will wi

->

-> >

->

-> >I have no intention of calling you, so don't expect a call from me.

->

-> >But you might get a call from my lawyer.

->

-> >

->

->

->

-> ARF says:

->

->

->

-> I will and do apologize because I was wrong not because of your threats

->

->

->

-> For your information, the FBI already has a complaint on record of deat

->

-> threats coming from an idiot at the U of Chi but they refuse to do anyt

->

-> about it.  I even gave them copies of the mail with the guys name on it

->

->

->

-> Not sure our new laws would make much difference but electronic namecal

->

-> doesnt seem to stand much of a legal test because it is too easy to fal

->

->

->

-> Again, I apologize if it was not you but I highly suspect it is someone

->

-> U of Chi.  There seems to be a lot of pent up hate there.

->

->

->

-> js

->
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: NUKE IRAQ
Date: 29 Jul 92 23:47:33 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Jul29.191153.10900@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) writes:
>
>   While it is true that Sadam Hussein deserves to die a slow and
>painful death, the people of Iraq have suffered enormously.  What
>I would like to see done is Sadam Hussein executed, to give these
>poor people a chance to create their own government.  I would not
>object to nuking Sadam Hussein!

One of the most intelligent and sensitive remarks to emit from
the mouth of Ira.

Miracles never cease to amaze me!

Anisa

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: yogi@cs.ubc.ca (Yossi Gil)
Subject: Iraq/Kuwait border dispute?
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 19:59:53 GMT

I would like to rais the following issue for discussion in TPM:

I heard that there are currently discussions on where the border between
Iraq and Kuwait should lie. From what I hear the Kuwaitis demand that some
land that used to be part of Iraq before Aug 2nd should be part of Kuwait.
Apparently, the US supports this claim.

A friend of mine, (who is not an Iraqi himself, but probably closer to the
Iraqi side then to the Kuwaiti one) said that the Kuwaitis are in danger
that this demand would backfire on them.  Should this be realized "even
the opposition of Iraq would never forgive the Kuwaitis". He mentions that
the Iraqis are known for years in the Arab world as the most stubborn,
persistent and aggressive of all Arab nations. 

--
Joseph (Yossi) Gil                 {alberta,uw-beaver,uunet}!ubc-cs!yogi
Dept. of Computer Science          yogi@cs.ubc.ca (cs.ubc.ca=137.82.8.5)
6356 Agricultural Road., Univ. of B.C.,             Tel: +1-604-822-8175
Vancouver, British Columbia, V6T 1Z2, Canada.       Fax: +1-604-822-5485
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Subject: Re: propaganda
Reply-To: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 02:59:52 GMT


In a previous article, jsaypol@dasher.uucp (Josh Saypol) says:

>I would just like to apologize publically to Id Friedman (did I spell 
>that right -- I didn't save his response) for reading too much
>into his posting and coming back quasi-flaming.  I deserved the 
>outrage he expressed in return.
>
>I've tried to keep quiet on the net as much as possible because
>my opinions about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are very strong
>yet constantly evolving (an oxymoron many who follow the middle east
>can probably relate to).  I'm sick to death of knee jerk defenders
>of Israel and I'm sick to death of people looking at the history of
>the conflict when we need to look at the future of it.  That's what
>motivated me to blast someone posting an historical quote. 
>
>This is a conflict where historical facts are subjective.

From the point of view of a supporter of Israel, it doesn't really matter
whether someone wants to ignore history or pay attention to it, since
either preference would lead one to Israel's position.  Only the selective
use of history plays into the anti-Israel hands.

If one ignores history, then one would conclude that there is no need for
Israel to withdraw from territory it now holds, any more than one would
conclude that we should withdraw from land which once belonged to others.

On the other hand, if one doesn't ignore history, then one would conclude
that Israel is completely justified in insisting on peace as a priority,
recognize that the Arabs already have been given three quarters of the land
of Palestine that was set aside as a Jewish homeland, and accept the
present cease fire lines, with minor adjustments, as borders.
-- 
bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: ejk@coral.JPL.NASA.gov (Elya Kapelyan)
Subject: Re: territories vs the territories
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, NASA/Caltech
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 23:30:16 GMT

In article <4587@daily-planet.concordia.ca>, ilyess@davinci.concordia.ca (Ilyess Bdira) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul22.155358.24112@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> ejk@coral.JPL.NASA.gov (Elya Kapelyan) writes:
|> David said:
|> >|>  	At any rate this whole argument is ridiculous.  It is not for
|> >|>    anyone else to determine what another country declares is its
|> >|>    capital.
|> >|>  --
|> >|> 
|> 
|> I replied (with an obvious sarcasm)
|> 
|> >|> That is why you should not object if Palestine  (or even Jordan) declares 
|> >|> Jerusalem as its capital!
|> >

	Your sarcasm was far from obvious, as the PLO claimed that Jerusalem
WAS its capital.

|> to which Elya replied: 
|> 
|> >	Whew... Now you've done it.  Before I thought you were just a paranoic.
|> >Now I realize that you are an idiot as well.  So let me remind you of a few
|> >facts:  
|> ....
|> 
|> Mr. Kapelyan, I am not good at mud-wrestling, but people with IQ's
|> higher than mediocre should understand what I was saying (at least Mr. 
|> MacKowskey did, sorry for not remembering the name right).
|> I was talking hypothetically with a bit of sarcasm.
|> 
|> About the U.S government receiving orders:

	Where did this come from, and what does it have to do with the issue
at hand?

|> Nobdy can deny these two facts:
|> 
|> 1) In the U.s systems the PACs and the secial interest groups are
|> the ones who determine the agenda of the President and Congress.
|> 2)The pro-Israeli PAC's are the most powerfule most organized and most
|> influencial lobbies around.
|> 
|> The rest is left as an exercise to the student..

	Now you're back to your good ole argument of "The Zionists control 
America".  This is too silly to respond to.
 
|> I feel like picking on you Mr. Kapelyan, so you say:
|> 
|> >	4. If "Palestine" can claim Jm as its capital the state of "Bozonia"
|> >	   can claim Mecca as its capital.
|> 
|> If you are making fun of Bosnia, it is expected since Israel helped
|> arm the Serbs and is allied with them against the Muslims.

	Actually, I was not even thinking of Bosnia, but of Bonzo, as in the
movie "Bedtime for Bonzo" (starring a chimp and Ronald Reagan).  As for Israel
being allied with Serbia, this is the first that I have heard of this.  Care
to back up your claim? 
 
|> Armenia-Serbia-South Africa-Israel-Southern Lebanese Army-Columbia Drug Cartel-
|> Southern Sudan Army-(Ex)Nicaragua Contras. What an alliance, what a crowd!!
|> I wonder what is next?
|> >

	The above doesn't even deserve a comment.

	Elya

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Subject: Re: Arabs are very cheap
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 15:24:59 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <4564@daily-planet.concordia.ca> ilyess@athena.concordia.ca (Ilyess Bdira) writes:
>In article <1992Jul20.070719.25877@discus.technion.ac.il> davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami) writes:
> 
> BUT this will not work in practice because the Arabs are VERY cheap and
> the Jews are very picky in jobs. Whenever there is a temporary Close of
>
>Hopefully not for long... Your statement is a very appreciated justification
>of the Hamas platform.     
>
>When Arabs and Arab blood become less cheap, then Israel would not
>feel so arrogant, I can almost assure you that this will happen very soon
>(Maybe in your lifetime if you are less than 40 years old).

I don't this it was a statement of opinion, but one of fact.  The fact is that
Arab labor may very well be cheap.  You can blame the circumstance for its being
cheap on Israel if you like, but I wouldn't call this simply appraisal of the 
labor market arrogant.

Perhaps when the Palestinians in these areas (Gaza and the West Bank) are 
allowed to have some control over their future and govern themselves, they 
will be able to raise the value of their own labor (I am sure of it). 
However, I don't think that Hamas has a monopoly on this view.

-anwar
-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome)    School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
From: brian@baja.Corp.Sun.COM (Brian Edge)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: NUKE IRAQ
Date: 29 Jul 1992 19:39:02 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: brian@baja.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: baja.corp.sun.com

Summary: 
Keywords: 

In article 10900@usenet.ins.cwru.edu, bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) writes:
>
>   While it is true that Sadam Hussein deserves to die a slow and
>painful death, the people of Iraq have suffered enormously.  What
>I would like to see done is Sadam Hussein executed, to give these
>poor people a chance to create their own government.  I would not
>object to nuking Sadam Hussein!
>-- 
>"The tree of liberty must occasionally be nourished by the blood
>of tyrants and of patriots."                    Thomas Jefferson
>"Hello? Information?  Would you please give me the home phone of
>Pat Buchanan?...Yes.  His address as well, thank you very much."


Who cares about these people that I see on TV burning American flags,
and chant "Death to Americans"?  Do you think this is all staged
for the cameras??  Are these "poor people" so dumb that they would
blindly follow anyone you put up there??


Brian
From: oueichek@ngulu (Ibaa Oueichek)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: NUKE IRAQ
Date: 30 Jul 92 23:51:33 GMT
Organization: IMAG, University of Grenoble, France
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

brian@baja.Corp.Sun.COM (Brian Edge) writes:
: Summary: 
: Keywords: 
: 
: In article 10900@usenet.ins.cwru.edu, bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) writes:
: >
: 
: Who cares about these people that I see on TV burning American flags,
: and chant "Death to Americans"?  Do you think this is all staged
: for the cameras??  Are these "poor people" so dumb that they would
: blindly follow anyone you put up there??
: 
  I suggest you join the guys at B-CPU, you've soooooooo much in commun,
BIGOT.
: 
: Brian

--
Sham(u) ya tha (s)seif(u) lam yaghib(i) | Ibaa Oueichek. ouicheck@imag.imag.fr
    Ya jamal(al) majd(i) fi(l) kutub(i) | LABORATOIRE 	BULL-IMAG
Kablak(i) (t)tareekh(u) fi thulmaten    | Grenoble. 
    Baadak(i) staula ala (sh)shuhub(i)  |
					
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Subject: Re: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Prote
Reply-To: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 18:26:00 GMT


In a previous article, awair@igc.org (Arab World and Islamic Resources) says:

>
>From: Arab World and Islamic Resources <awair>
>Subject: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Protest
>
>July 1st was the last program on KALW-FM (San Francisco Bay Area)
>regularly hosted by Colin Edwards, who for several years on that
>station has given valuable information and commentary on the
>Israeli-Palestinian conflict. 

>
>Edwards announced on his last show July 1 that "the station has
>received many objections to my remarks from the Israeli Consulate
>General and Zionist organizations and individuals....It was not my
>decision to stop."
>
>Edwards, an Oxford-educated, former BBC Middle East correspondent
>who now lives in Oakland, angered pro-Israeli listeners by voicing
>provocative opinions and airing dirty historical linen on his
>five-minute Wednesday morning program.  He spoke of how Yitzhak
>Shamir and David Ben Gurion colluded with the Nazis during World
>War II.  He described recent Israeli arms dealing with the
>government of South Africa.  And he talked about the present-day
>policy of "Israeli aggression" against Lebanon.

I wonder if the fact that Edwards is a hate-monger, or the fact that he had
little regard for facts and made up absurd, inflammatory statements such as
"Yitzhak Shamir and David Ben Gurion colluded with the Nazis during World
War II" could have had anything to do with his well-deserved canning. 
-- 
bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu