HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: schroedg@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Bentley)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Vegas Conditions
Date: 30 Dec 92 21:31:53 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson

Hiya--

We're heading up on Sunday and staying 'til Wednesday...we should miss
the balance of the convention antics and stuff, I hope.  We're staying
at the Frontier.  (It's free...so what the hell....)

Now...I've heard that BJ conditions there are lousy...so where are
people's picks for the BEST 1 or 2 deck games?  Any help would be
appreciated....

Thanks!

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: weinstoc@sei.cmu.edu (Chuck Weinstock)
Subject: Re: Good Rules In Chicago
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:33:08 EST


>>Maybe Chuck found something good, but in all the "Vegas" nights I've
>>been to around here, the big problem with the blackjack games is that
>>the dealer WINS on a push.

I specifically said that the blackjack rules were normal.  In particular,
pushes are considered ties according to the rules I saw.

Chuck Weinstock				weinstock@sei.cmu.edu
Software Engineering Institute		(412) 268-7719
Carnegie Mellon University		(412) 268-5758 (Fax)
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: ajackson@ernie.Princeton.EDU (Andrew William Jackson)
Subject: Re: ATLANTIC CITY
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:49:51 GMT

In article <1992Dec9.013403.13417@Virginia.EDU> jwf4r@Virginia.EDU ("SON OF TJ") writes:
>Sorry if I blow this, my first posting....BUT
>
>Doesn't anyone ever go to Atlantic City?  A group of friends
>and I are planning a trip (coed) and would love some hints as
>to where to stay or where we might get a free room intended for
>"$serious$" gamblers.  You see we are "serious" gamblers but
>don't risk enough money to put "$" around the word.  Any suggestions?
>
>Thanx.

I have played at Trump Plaza, Caesars, and Resorts (blackjack).
I will never go to Caesars again.  The BJ rules are terrible.
I played at Resorts for about 5 hours betting 10 - 50/hand and they
gave me $15 of free food - hardly a hotel room.  I think you would 
need to spend several hours at a 100/hand minimum table before they
would even consider giving you a room.  Trump has about the same
deal.  You need to get a card when you go into the casino, and then
when you play at the tables, give it to the pit boss who will "rate"
you and put it on your card.  I personally like the tables at resorts
the best because they aren't as crowded and noisy.  There are not
any bright lights flashing all around or slot machines.  The table
area is lit in cool blue light.

ajackson@ernie.princeton.edu


Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Casino in LA?
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 16:07:14 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: na

>Excuse me if this was asked before, but the last two times I was in LA, I saw
>some TV ads for a casino that's supposedly in LA.  I think the name was
>Normandie Casino, but I may have recalled wrong.  Does anybody know what the
>deal is?  Is it a full-fledged casino, or just a card room?  Where exactly is
>it?  When did it open?  How can LA have a casino in it?
>
>Thanks for any info,
>
>Jim

There are a number of card clubs in the L.A. metro/suburban area..
mostly in Gardena (where the Normandie Club is), and there's another
one in uh.. I think City of Commerce, or City of Industry or perhaps
one in each. Yes, they are only card clubs. Although their teevee
ads make them look like full blown casinos (odd camera angles,
blinking twinkling exterior and interior shots of light displays,
blurbs for "full buffet lunch and dinner blah blah etc." they allow
only card games, mainly poker and variations thereupon. A lot of
folks still refer to these places as "the poker clubs."

No slots, no Blackjack, no roulette, no keno. I've never been
in one of them myself. 

Harv
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: brody@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Adam R. Brody )
Subject: Reno week of Jan 11
Summary: Reno week of Jan 11
Keywords: Reno
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 20:31:31 GMT

I will be in Reno for part of the week of Jan 11 for the
Aerospace Sciences Meeting.  I will be staying at the 
Flamingo Hilton.  Will anybody else be around?
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: kvk@cbnewse.cb.att.com (Kevin)
Subject: Taxes: deducting gambling losses against winnings?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 03:27:07 GMT
Keywords: IRS gambling

I was having a disagreement with my brother the other day over gambling
and taxes, I figured somebody here would know the answer. He's a big
bettor at the horse track, sometimes he'll win a bet big enough that he gets
a W2 for his winnings that he has to claim as income. This tends to screw
up his tax situation, since taxes aren't taken out of winnings at the time,
and he has to cough up money come April 15th.

He and I agree that in theory you can offset gambling income by deducting
gambling losses up to the amount of your winnings. He says though that saving
your losing betting tickets from the track, even if you staple them to the
day's program, are not recognized by the IRS as proof of gambling losses,
that in effect there is NO allowable way to document gambling losses from
the racetrack.

So, does anyone know how to legally deduct gambling losses from your
taxes (up to your winnings), and document it such that the IRS will allow it?

				Kevin Kinder
				kvk@iexist.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: Chris.Bradley@f374.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Chris Bradley)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Blackjack
Date: 24 Dec 92 10:24:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.725290358.AA00000

* In a message originally to All, "SON OF TJ" said:

>From: jwf4r@Virginia.EDU ("SON OF TJ")
>Newsgroups: rec.gambling
>ALL PLAYERS,

>     This may seem stupid, but how does a casino profit at
>Blackjack?  If all ties with the dealer are "pushed," why isn't
>it possible to just play the same rules that the house plays
>and come out perfectly even?  Allowing for a modicum of human
>intelligence, shouldn't a player be able to profit most of the
>time?  I am sure that casinos are not offering a game that
>gives away money, so what's the catch?  Where is the edge for
>the casino?  I hope and I am sure that I am not the only one
>wondering this....no one I have gambled with has been able to
>tell me, so HELP!

The edge is that you have the opportunity to bust before the house does, and
if it were that easy, everyone would win at Blackjack. If you play basic
strategy, you are sitting at a 48/51 shift in the houses favor.

-->Chris 
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: QUESTION
In-reply-to: venkataraman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu's message of 24 Dec 1992 16:56 MST  
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Distribution: world,local
Date: 24 Dec 92 19:32:41

In article <24DEC199216563122@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu> venkataraman@misvms.bpa.arizona.edu (Remesh Venkataraman) writes:
>
> Let's say that a dealer tips you off to the existence of a small card under
> his/her 10/A.  Should stand pat ALL the time ?

No. Double down with any soft hand that is not a blackjack.  Other
than that, hit if there is no risk of busting, stand if there is any
risk of busting.  Double if you hold a pair of 4's or a pair of 5's,
split all other pairs.  You'd prefer the dealer had a 4,5, or 6 when
splitting 10's.

> If you are counting, I assume
> that you would go ahead and hit in extremely negative true counts.

Maybe, but I doubt it.
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Don't worry, I just have these harmless pocket rockets...."
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: beers@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Jim Beers)
Subject: New Casino in upstate NY
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 14:12:03 GMT

I saw a headline in a paper about a casino some Indians are going to 
open someplace between Syracuse and Albany.  Has anybody heard this?


Jim

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: kvk@cbnewse.cb.att.com (Kevin)
Subject: low rolling and/or non-smoking in Vegas?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 03:46:19 GMT
Keywords: las vegas

I'm planning to go to Vegas for the second time in January, and my
copy of the Las Vegas Advisor is about two years old. Does anybody know:

	a) Suggestions on decent blackjack games with low (< $5) minimums.
	  Last time out I think Binion's, C^2, and the Frontier were
	  the only $1 minimum single deck games in town. Although I usually
	  do fairly well, I tend to prefer the $1-$3 minimum tables, call
	  me cheap.

	b) Are any non-smoking casinos around? Silver City was smokeless
	  the last time I was there, and I seem to recall someone saying
	  one casino room at C^2 was smokeless. No flames from smokers please,
	  I just prefer to do without it if I can.

	c) Are the pickets still at the Frontier?

	d) I've seen several people refer to Harrah's, where is Harrah's
	  in Vegas, it wasn't there the last time I was there. How's the
	  blackjack game there?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

			Kevin Kinder
			kvk@iexist.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: ajackson@ernie.Princeton.EDU (Andrew William Jackson)
Subject: Re: Recent AC trip
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:23:52 GMT

In article <1gvj1lINNsa2@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bi011@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bill King) writes:
>
>Went down to A.C. for about 5-6 hours on Monday night. Most of the casinos
>were pretty empty, likely due in part to the big storm that took
>place about a week ago. Anyway, an interesting experience at Caesar's:
>My roommate and I were playing BJ when the dealer took my roommate's
>cards and chips even though both had 17 [My roommate is still new to the
>game]. So guy looks at cards, calls pit boss over, and gives back his
>chip. Two hands later, same thing happens. Both dealer and roommate push
>but dealer tried to take chip. Next hand, both roommate and I win on
>ridiculous hands [ie: we both had about 4-5 cards totalling around 18-19
>to the dealer's 17. Dealer says:"Geez, you guyz trying to put me to sleep
>here." 
>Overall, it just seemed very wierd the way dealer was acting. I mean,
>after all, I don't think it reflects well on him that the pit boss had
>to come over a few times in the span of 2-3 minutes cause he messed up.
>Just thought it was interesting.....
>Bill


I was in a.c. tuesday night for about 8 hrs, and the same thing happened to
my roomate.  Some dealer swiped his bet when he pushed, and we noticed and
he put it back.  He then neglected to pay one of my wins, thinking it was
a push, but we caught it.  Then he swiped my roomates bet again on a push
and he realized it and asked how much he had down.  He had $5 down, but he
told the dealer he had $10 so the dealer gave him ten.  I think the dealer
was just tired and wasn't actually trying to rip us off.  We avoided him
for the rest of the night.  I have had at least 20 different dealers before
and none had ever done this before.  This was at resorts btw.

ajackson@ernie.princeton.edu
From: bhmd1464@altair.selu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Info on boxing odds wanted
Date: 28 Dec 92 14:40:09 -0600
Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University



Does anyone know the odds on the Chavez VS. Haugen fight
on Feb 19?  I plan to be in LV that weekend and I am
interested in betting on that fight,  but I am curious
to find out what the odds are going to be like.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Brian Acosta
MIS Manager
Zapata Haynie Corporation
From: ajackson@ernie.Princeton.EDU (Andrew William Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Blackjack
Date: 21 Dec 92 20:10:36 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Dec10.050506.9828@Virginia.EDU> jwf4r@Virginia.EDU ("SON OF TJ") writes:
>ALL PLAYERS,
>
>     This may seem stupid, but how does a casino profit at
>Blackjack?  If all ties with the dealer are "pushed," why isn't
>it possible to just play the same rules that the house plays
>and come out perfectly even?  Allowing for a modicum of human
>intelligence, shouldn't a player be able to profit most of the
>time?  I am sure that casinos are not offering a game that
>gives away money, so what's the catch?  Where is the edge for
>the casino?  I hope and I am sure that I am not the only one
>wondering this....no one I have gambled with has been able to
>tell me, so HELP!
>
>				THANX,
>        				JWF


Yes, this is a stupid question.  The rules of blackjack favor the house
in general because if the player breaks, he looses his bet, whether or
not the dealer breaks.  If you played the same strategy as the dealer you
would loose.  As the player, however, you can take a hit on or stick on
whatever you want, for example you can hit on an ace and a 6 whereas 
the dealer (who must stand on all 17s) would have to sick in that situation.  
Another example is that you as the player would stick on a 16 if the dealer 
shows a 6, but the dealer cannot stick on 16 and will probably break hitting
a 16.The other two advantages the player has are that he may double his bet 
on any two cards and can split two cards into two hands if another equivelant 
bet is placed to cover the two hands.  And of course the player has the 
advantage of winning 3/2 odds on a blackjack.  Overall if the player 
correctly takes advantage of all his advantageous situations 
(doubles down and splits correctly, and sticks and hits correctly), 
the odds are only very slightly in the dealers favor.  (less than one percent).
If you can find a place that still allows surrender, the odds are in the
players favor by 0.2 percent.  The numbers vary according to slight changes
in the house rules. 
	It should be noted that to get these odds the correct strategy must
be played perfectly.  Perhaps one player in ten plays correctly.  The other
9 play stupidly giving the casino anywhere from 5 to 50% advantage.  These 
are the people the casino makes money from.  For example if the player has
a 16 and the dealer has a 7, 8, 9, 10, or an Ace, the player should hit.  
More than half the players stick in this situation.

ajackson@ernie.princeton.edu
From: hashimoto@sgi.com (Roy Hashimoto)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: California Aces
Date: 22 Dec 1992 18:37:41 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: sideout.asd.sgi.com

In article <1h68etINNfpu@male.EBay.Sun.COM> greg@redeye.EBay.Sun.COM (greg) writes:
>Has anyone out there heard of California Aces?  I just read
>about it in the newspaper.  It is a game similar to Blackjack,
>except the ideal hand is 22.  You can't bust if you go over 
>22, meaning that you could win with 23.  Apparently, the 
>inventor of the game modifidied the rules of Blackjack so
>it's legal in California.

I watched this game for a while and then asked the floorman for a pamphlet.
The game has four additional jokers that can be used as aces (California
aces).  The lower hand prevails on hands that are equally close to 22.  As
in all California table games, a player must bank (deal) because there can
be no play against the house.  Being the dealer is optional; you can hold
the deal for two hands before passing it.

The cards are actually handled by a house dealer, called a "supervisor"
in the pamphlet.  I don't know if the game I watched was typical, but it
looked like the supervisor was getting a pretty healthy flow of tips.  It
might be wise to watch and see what the convention is if you want to avoid
being labeled a stiff.

Besides playing against the dealer, you can also make a side bet against
the other players.  Your hand then competes with all the other hands with
side bets.

Even if you do not use the side bet option, you still do not want the other
players to do well.  The order of play and payoffs for players is randomly
determined with a dice cup.  Bets are paid and taken in order up to the
limit of the dealer's stake.  It looks like you can have a winner and not
get paid if the dealer runs out of money, or have a loser and keep your
bet if the dealer has already won his max.

Roy Hashimoto
hashimoto@sgi.com
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: re cal aces
From: surf@netlink.cts.com (Tony Rosa)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 19:33:57 PST
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

the 50 cents is usually a flat fee per line bet.  and no one would know 
that you are hitting on a nineteen because your cards are face down.(at 
least where I have played).  The problem with more than two people is 
that there are only six players per table and your advantage(net gain) 
would probobly be minimized.(no sufficient evidence, just my reasoning).  
The prior post was put in effect to show an example of play at this game. 
 I don't go out and do this to make a living, yet this raised a question 
as to how many people are out there doing it.

--                    
INTERNET:  surf@netlink.cts.com (Tony Rosa)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!surf
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
From: ov@head-cfa.harvard.edu (Olaf Vancura)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Turning $96 into $70,000
Date: 3 Jan 93 00:08:10 GMT
Organization: Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA,  USA

Will you idiots with get rich quick schemes ever give it up?!
The old pyramid con, resurrected yet again on unsuspecting (or stupid)
people...

Pack it in people!!!

Olaf
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Re: ATLANTIC CITY
Organization: Summit NJ
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 03:42:37 GMT

>>Doesn't anyone ever go to Atlantic City?

>I have played at Trump Plaza, Caesars, and Resorts (blackjack).
>I will never go to Caesars again.  The BJ rules are terrible.
>I played at Resorts for about 5 hours betting 10 - 50/hand and they
>gave me $15 of free food - hardly a hotel room.  I think you would 
>need to spend several hours at a 100/hand minimum table before they
>would even consider giving you a room.....

To give you some idea of A/C comps, a few months ago, Harrah's was
advertising that if you play at least 2 hours at a table, they'll 
guarantee you get a meal comp equal to the table minimum.

Now to put this in perspective, on the low end, A/C casino food prices
are about double what I found in Nevada; I can't even afford to look
at the menus of the places on the high-end.

Of course the "table minimum" isn't a pittance; even $5 tables are an
endangered species during peak periods (I mean, Trump's Castle was
once advertising that they would always have $5 tables open in the
same way that Nevada casinos would advertise $1 BJ).

I figure that for low-stakes players, with a bargain airfare, Vegas
will cost less overall than A/C, even for people who are within driving
distance of A/C.  In A/C, even the dinky motels want $50 a night.
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
From: kylee@eskimo.com (K.Y. Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Poker Software:  Any recommendations?
Date: 26 Dec 92 10:24:30 GMT
Organization: >>> Eskimo North (206)-FOR-EVER <<<

I have the feeling that this subject has been discussed, quite possibly
beat to death.  If so, please bear with me.  I am new here.

Can anyone recommend a software for poker, simulation playing and analysis?
I would prefer hol'em, hol'em split, and omaha.

kylee@eskimo.com
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: mhall@netcom.com (Michael Hall)
Subject: Re: Taxes: deducting gambling losses against winnings?
Keywords: IRS gambling
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:05:35 GMT

kvk@cbnewse.cb.att.com (Kevin) writes:

>He and I agree that in theory you can offset gambling income by deducting
>gambling losses up to the amount of your winnings. He says though that saving
>your losing betting tickets from the track, even if you staple them to the
>day's program, are not recognized by the IRS as proof of gambling losses,
>that in effect there is NO allowable way to document gambling losses from
>the racetrack.

There was a case where the IRS rejected losing tickets from the track as
evidence of gambling losses.  However, these were crumbled, stepped on,
mutilated, dirty tickets that had been "obviously" picked up off the floor
after being dropped by other gamblers.  To avoid getting screwed by the IRS,
keep a detailed log of your gambling, and keep all receipts (at least the
losing ones :-) in good condition.

-- 
Michael Hall   \ 
personal account\Big Brother knows if you picked up those tickets off the floor
mhall@netcom.com \
From: TRADER@cup.portal.com (Paul Vincent McGinnis)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Bally Gaming (BGII) Ups 'n' Downs
Date: Fri,  1 Jan 93 01:47:31 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

In a recent article, elliott@aero.org (Kenneth B. Elliott III) asked about
the stock happenings at Bally Gaming (stock symbol BGII). I haven't followed
them in a while, but I assume they are a subsidiary of Bally Mfg. Bally's
is in serious financial trouble - they recently had to sell their Reno
casino. They also own Holiday Health Spas, (Their stock symbol is BLY - they
may have split into multiple entitities...)

Just to clarify-stock prices often bear little relation to the value of a 
company. It's another form of gambling, except you're playing for "real 
money". My own bet for 1993 is on Amdahl Corp. (AMH). Many investors treat
stocks as pieces of paper (or bytes of computer storage). I'll admit-if I
believed I could make money on a company devoted to nude, vegetarian,
sky divers, I'd probably do it. If you want to invest in gambling stocks,
I recommend Financial Funds' Leisure Fund (CUSIP symbol FLISX), P.O. Box
2040, Denver, CO, 80201. I've had a good year (1992) with them. They not
only own gambling stocks, but distillery stocks, cruise line stocks, etc.
Since a mutual fund owns stocks in many companies, the risk is diluted.

Paul McGinnis / TRADER@cup.portal.com
(Hoping to make money from my investments, since I'm now an unemployed
 computer programmer)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: alanm@netcom.com (Alan H. Mintz Cons)
Subject: Re: Casino in LA?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 17:55:54 GMT

TRADER@cup.portal.com (Paul Vincent McGinnis) writes:

>The size of some of the L.A. area "casinos" is impressive. The big 4 are:
>- The Bicycle Club, Bell Gardens. Take the 710 Fwy. and exit at Eastern.

Florence exit, actually. It's at the corner of Florence and Eastern.

>- The Regency, City of Bell. If I recall, you go north from the Bicycle
>  Club on Washington (??)

North on Eastern.

(I had to really think about the street names - I'm usually on auto-pilot :-)

If you're visiting and don't have time to hit them all, Bicycle and
Commerce are both huge (by anyone's standards) and will probably
have the shortest waiting times for games. Even on a Saturday night,
you can probably get in any game in the place (excepting that
3-day $400-$800 hold-em game :-) in less than half an hour.
"The Bike" has the biggest jackpots, if you're into that.
-- 
< Alan H. Mintz | alan@mq.mq.com   | ...!netcom!ahmcs!mq!alan  BEST PATH >
<            OR | alanm@netcom.com | ...!netcom!alanm                    >
Newsgroups: rec.gambling