HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bilbo@bisco.kodak.com (Charles Tryon)
Subject: Re: roads & inconsiderate motorists
Organization: Eastman Kodak Company; Rochester, NY
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 14:54:41 GMT

In article <1992Sep26.023846.29823@slc.com> marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie) writes:
>Naruhisa Takashima (naru@eng.umd.edu) writes:
>
>> ... As I raised my finger at him ...
>
>I've found that waving in a friendly fashion has a far more devastating 
>effect on the true jerk, who really wants you to acknowledge his jerkness.

  Marc, I admire your strength of character.  A REAL (TM) Bicyclist
  doesn't let foolish motorists and their pettyness get under his or her
  skin.  I still find myself slipping into the "Single finger salute" mode
  (such as the other day when a lady honked at me as I was riding to the
  RIGHT of the white line!!), but I keep reminding myself (afterwards)
  that, being rude back doesn't buy me anything, and letting myself get
  angry just lowers the quality of my ride.

>    Marc San Soucie
>    Portland, Oregon
>    marcs@slc.com

  (Now, if I can just find a mongo spotlight to blink in drivers' eyes when
  they refuse to turn down their high beams at night, then I'd be truly
  happy...)


--
Chuck Tryon
    bilbo@bisco.kodak.com                                 B. Baggins
    <<Kodak pays me to write systems, not opinions!>>     At Your Service
 ____________________________________________________________________
   REAL Bicyclists don't take abuse from motorists, they drop them.
                                          -- Dan Mocsny
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.bicycles.marketplace
From: marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie)
Subject: Re: Burley tandem summary
Organization: Servio Corp, Beaverton Oregon, US
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 03:43:38 GMT

Keith (9070natschke@vms.csd.mu.edu) writes:

> We were not able to achieve the speeds I've heard tandemers talk about here
> on the net but we definitely go faster than we did on our singles.

Think of a tandem as a two-man paceline with near-perfect drafting and no 
need to switch places. If everything is going well, you'll be able to go a 
little faster than the two of you would in a perfect 2-man paceline. Some 
people go very fast when they can get a break from the wind now and then. 
Those people go very very fast on tandems.

    Marc San Soucie
    Portland, Oregon
    marcs@slc.com
From: cindy@berkp.uadv.uci.edu (Cindy Windham)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Bikes for kids
Date: 2 Oct 92 20:24:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: berkp.cindy.86
Distribution: usa
Organization: University Advancement, University of Calif., Irvine

My husband and I disagree on whether or not to buy our 3.5 yr old son a
bicycle.  He feels that he is ready for one (without training wheels),
and I think that we should wait.  IMHO, riding a bicycle involves much
more than just the mechanics of balancing and pedaling.  However, I'm
willing to listen to the advice of others who are more experienced cyclists.
At what age (in general) do you feel that a child is ready to own a 
bicycle?

- Cindy Windham
From: gareth@bcsaic.boeing.com (Gareth Beale)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: clipless pedal options
Keywords: clipless SPD pedals
Date: 29 Sep 92 23:05:37 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle

I am seriously considering switching to clipless pedals.  The last FAQ
I saw did not contain any discussion of this subject.  It just so
happens that my present shoes are SPD convertible, so this would be my
first choice.  However, do SPD's allow any lateral movement?  I'm a bit
short on cartilage in my left knee (one reason I started biking), and
I've read it might be better to have a cleat that allows some movement.

Then of course there are the options like double-sided, as well as
different manufacturers.  I like the idea of the recessed type, however.

It's not my intention to start another religous war, so if there's an
FAQ or article on the subject could someone point me to it?  


Gareth Beale (206)865-5375  #
Mail Stop 7A-35             #  e-mail:
Boeing Computer Services    #  gfb@sdc.boeing.com
P.O. Box 24346              #  or:
Seattle, Wa. 98124-0346     #  gfb%sdc@atc.boeing.com
From: Andrew_L_Chu@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Price Club Bikes?
Date: Thu,  1 Oct 92 18:49:12 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: ca


>Price Club sells "Motiv" brand mountain bikes.  I'm looking at the $199.00 
>Stonegrinder model for light biking on trails.  Can anyone provide input 
>good or bad on these bikes?

>Thanks,
>Ron Woods

Avoid department store bikes at all costs!!! Typically these bikes have their
compononents put together poorly. Spend an extra $50 at a good bike store and
you will receive a much higher quality product. Additionally, most bike
shops offer free tune-ups after the first month or two.

Andrew Chu
Andrew_L_Chu@cup.portal.com\
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles:22836 rec.bicycles.soc:385
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: DO YOU shower after a commute?
From: royce@mdcbbs.com (Royce D. Myers EDS/Unigraphics)
Date: 29 Sep 92 08:33:01 GMT
Organization: Electronic Data Systems, Unigraphics Division, Cypress CA
Nntp-Posting-User: royce

In article <1992Sep28.143414.15731@cbnewse.cb.att.com>, pwyc@cbnewse.cb.att.com (peter.w.chen) writes:
>  
> So, my question to those who live in other parts of the world: do you find
> showering facilities a big issue in bike commuting?  Is that more important
> than, say, better parking facilities and safer routes?

    Shower facilities are the number one enabler here.  We recently moved
    from a building with no showers to one with showers, and the number of
    daily bicycle commuters went from three to about 10.

    My ride is 10 - 11 miles, flat; I sweat a lot.  I keep my work costume
    (a suit) and toiletries at work, and we have a dry cleaner who
    delivers.  I would not commute by bike without showers.

    The Southern California Air Quality Management District insists that we
    do something to get cars off the road, so those who ride more than 40%
    of the time can earn 1$/day. We had pretty lousy parking facilities
    until two bikes were stolen, and now we park inside.  Eventually we'll
    get lockers.  These changes upped the daily count to around 12.

    In terms of "safer routes": my ride is entirely on arterial and
    secondary streets.  Super streets are very large and fast; arterial
    streets are a step below this.  Secondary streets are two lanes each
    way, with parking on the side.  Sometimes there are bike lanes, and
    sometimes there's a bit more room in the right lane to allow for bikes. 
    Speed limits vary but the median is around 45 mph.  I don't feel safe,
    but my morning commute always seems safer than my evening one.  There's
    nothing my work can do to encourage safer streets as long as drivers
    aren't used to bike commuters.  I expect as we ride more and more in
    the dark there will be some fall off in ridership.

    Showers are the most important.  Safe storage is second.  Safe routes
    are a fantasy -:).

Royce Myers			EDS Unigraphics
royce@mdcbbs.com 		"Work is the curse of the drinking class"
					-- W. C. Fields
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: Ticketing illegal cycling (was Re: Bikes and sidewalks)
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:04:17 GMT

In <1992Sep27.141521.27415@pegasus.com> richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk) writes:

>Okay, now I'm curious ... what do you think would have happened if
>you didn't have any i.d. when you were stopped?  Don't need a license
>to ride a bike ...  what would the cop do?

From my experience many years ago, after getting pulled over
for rolling through a stop sign when I was in elementary
school, the officer will take down your name and address.
You don't need a license to ride a bike, but you also don't
need a license to get cited.  (Otherwise, how would they
deal with citations for "failure to possess a valid
license"?

(Side note: my twin brother was stopped at the same time,
and his court notice included a "failure to possess valid
license" charge as well as running the sign -- some 'droid
at the court didn't notice the vehicle description, only the
"none" in the License No. blank.)

The car we were drafting behind didn't get stopped for
running the same sign, but we ended up without fines or
bad driving records by sitting through a deferment
program.
-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: dinsmm@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Michael Dinsmore)
Subject: damage to trails - cause found!
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 04:21:41 GMT

While riding my brand new mtn bike, i found out
what causes damage to the trails.  No, it isn't
mountain bikes...
After I came around a bend I saw a guy and a gal
going at it like bunnies!  Right on the trail!
Hmmm.....What does IMBA say about yielding to 
that???

I had fun anyways...   :)

Pedal on,
    ___  ___    
   /  |\/  |\  Michael Dinsmore
  /   |/   ||  dinsmm@rpi.edu
 / /|   /| ||  Michael_Dinsmore@MTS.RPI.EDU
/_/ |__/ |_||  Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
\_\/\__\/\_\|  Computer and Systems Engineering
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Hit and Run (the results)
Date: 3 Oct 92 19:42:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Oct3.194214.2750
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <2500113@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com> smay@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Scott Smay) writes:
>What's a 19-year old "man" doing in a youth prison?

Two years. With time off and all the rest he will probably actually serve
about 7 or 8 months. Seems like a good trade off for permanently injuring
someone and telling jokes about it afterwards.

This is _your_ district attorney at work. (As in _all_ of us should be
sreaming in that assholes ear.)
From: paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: clipless pedal options
Keywords: clipless SPD pedals
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:38:52 GMT
Reply-To: paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

This may sound stupid but can you clarify "lateral movement"
for me.  There is movement in my SPDs (DXs).  I may be confusing
this with twisting (which would be very bad for buggered up knees).

BTW, there are two types of SPD cleats available giving different
ranges of movement/release.  Would the cleat allowing more
movement be more beneficial?


Cheers...Stuart
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: chesnutt@adobe.com (Stan Chesnutt)
Subject: Re: Hit and Run (the results)
Organization: Tuesday Weld Fan Club
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 05:41:51 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.194214.2750@netcom.com> tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
>In article <2500113@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com> smay@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Scott Smay) writes:
>>What's a 19-year old "man" doing in a youth prison?
>
>Two years. With time off and all the rest he will probably actually serve
>about 7 or 8 months. Seems like a good trade off for permanently injuring
>someone and telling jokes about it afterwards.
>
>This is _your_ district attorney at work. (As in _all_ of us should be
>sreaming in that assholes ear.)
>

Ok, can anybody give a reference about this case?  Docket number, which court,
which judge?  I regret I don't have Jobst's article any more, can anyone
provide a way to formally protest the judgement in an effective way?

Stan

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Stan Chesnutt,  Adobe Systems			      chesnutt@mv.us.adobe.com
From: dmmx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Mail-order?
Date: 1 Oct 92 11:02:27 EDT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

Does anyone know of any mailorder bicycle companies? Please send company
name and phone and/or address to dmmx@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu. Thanx.
From: Gerry_Furseth@mindlink.bc.ca (Gerry Furseth)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: clipless pedal options
Date: 6 Oct 92 02:36:12 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

One more vote for "I can't ride without Time."
Time pedals are the difference between the couch and climbing on the big
chain ring.
From: chris@carnival.lbl.gov (Chris Moll)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Hit and Run (the results)
Date: 6 Oct 1992 16:04:19 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California
NNTP-Posting-Host: carnival.lbl.gov

Jobst Brandt writes:
>From all that I
>have read, this young man is not "all there" in that he is not
>entirely accountable for his actions.  It seems he lacks judgment and
>self assurance and that what he does is largely swayed by the gang of
>younger guys with whom he likes to associate and gain acceptance.  

This seems like a statement that could be applied to the majority of
male teenagers.

>I presume that he is a marginal
>imbecile who by himself is not dangerous but when manipulated by others
>can be lead to do grotesque things.

I would agree that if he shows diminished capacity, a long prison sentence
is not appropriate.  But impaired or not, he should certainly never be
allowed to hold a driver's license.

The qualifications for a drivers license
in the US will never be made strict enough to filter out those who are
capable of parallel parking and memorizing the answers to a few questions,
but are so grossly irresponsible that they should not be allowed custody
of a house plant. 

The primary reason I might argue for a longer sentence is self-protection:
in a year or two from now, he may run me down.
--
Chris Moll                       (510)486-7891
---
A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature
replaces it with.        -- Tenessee Williams
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: aez@maunaloa.Dataio (Adam Zilinskas,,3539,,)
Subject: Re: Do Kevlar tires work?
Reply-To: aez@maunaloa.Dataio
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 21:37:32 GMT

In article 22430@yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au, sml@yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au (Steven Law) writes:
>thomas@bitrot.in-berlin.de (Thomas Driemeyer) writes:
>
>>In article <9210020537.AA07573@mcs.drexel.edu> upsiu@mcs.drexel.edu (Paul Siu) writes:
>>>Do Kevlar tires really prevent flats?  My cat recently used my tire as a
>>>scratching post, so I need new tires.  Previously, my tire would go flat about
>>>once a week due to glass, staples, and thorns.  If I switch to Kevlar tires,
>>>would the number of flats be reduced?
>
....
.
>
>I have had great mileage from Kevlar belted tyres. Two of us rode across
>North America in 9 months with 1 flat between us (from a nail).
>They might not stop your cat but they will help stop glass and small thorns.
>On the other hand, I only tried Mr Tuffy's for a very short time before
>getting cuts from the edges. Kevlar tyres - don't leave home without them :-)
>
>Steve Law

Anecdotal evidence:  I have put a few thousand on some kevlars with a
few flats (Avocet Cross). IMHO but I think that the kevlar must be in a
weave in the tires (I do not know of sheet kevlar) and it will stop
wide blade-like cuts from getting into the tire (kevlar thread is very
hard to cut) but slivers of glass, staples etc... seem to pass between
the threads every so often giving me a flat.  For 4000 miles on this
set of tires (about ready to retire) I have had:
	3 or 4 flats right in front of work from staples.
	2 flats from thin little slivers of glass
	a flat from a metal shaving  (passed by a metal working shop)
	and a roofing nail (tar paper still attached :-( )

			Adam Zilinskas
			aez@dataio.com
			

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: qpliu@phoenix.princeton.edu (q.p.liu)
Subject: Re: Road & motorists...again
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: qpliu@princeton.edu
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:50:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.180607.11671@newscan.canada.sun.com> andre@avalanche.Canada.Sun.Com writes:
>I really love the courier guy on his mountain bike getting the patch I was 
>waiting for.

Why did you have to wait for the patch in the first place?  Think.
-- 
qpliu@princeton.edu           Standard opinion: Opinions are delta-correlated.
From: chuahl@ocf.berkeley.edu (Chua HakLien)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Helmets: Some statistics, please...
Date: 28 Sep 1992 02:46:56 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: whirlwind.berkeley.edu

I'm trying to convince a friend of mine to wear a helmet when he
bikes. Since he's the engineering type, does anyone have any
hard statistics on the fatality rate for helmet and non-helmet
riders?

( I know that a fall from 2 feet to the ground may fracture the 
skull.... )

Apologies if this is a FAQ.

Chua
+==+
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles:22979 rec.bicycles.soc:452
From: ndrose@husc8.harvard.edu (Nathan Rose)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: bike locks
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:35:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Oct5.163552.16104
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

It's my understanding that some thieves are now going to such lengths as
to spray locks with liquid nitrogen and then shatter them, leaving the
puzzled bike owner to find his bike gone and billions of lock fragments
scattered about. 

Nathan Rose
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: shenry@cs.rice.edu (Sam Henry)
Subject: Re: Tire size and riding
Organization: Rice University, Houston
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:57:31 GMT

In article <9210020541.AA07614@mcs.drexel.edu> upsiu@mcs.drexel.edu
(Paul Siu) is tire-ing: 

>...  The bike was originally designed for sport riding, so the tires
>measured 27"x1-1/4".   If I get 27"x1-1/8" tires, would the bike be
>easier to ride (due to lower resistant?). 

Some.  But then a 1" tire would be even better in this respect.

>I ride in the city, and I worry that 27"x1-1/8" tires will not be
>sufficent to protect the rims.  I weight about 145 lbs, do I need
>27"x1-1/4" tires? 
 
I weigh a bit (hah!) more and have safely commuted on 700 x 25 tires.
That's roughly equivalent to a 1" tire.  You should have no problem
with a 27 x 1" tire and will probably enjoy riding them.  I belive
Continental makes a good one in the SuperSport.  These are inflatible
to a rated pressure of about 120 lbs/in^2.  They can be ridden at
higher, but you choose how much higher.

A skinnier tire at higer pressure will give less rolling resistance
and a harsher ride.  To prevent snake bite/pinch flats, unload the
seat before crossing heaves in the pavement, chug holes, railroad
rails, et al at speed.  When you unload the seat, the bike essentially
pivots around the pedal spindle, allowing the bike to rise and drop
with less resistanc, regain its stability, and then the same sequence
with the rear.  Less shock on the wheels is good for the rims and the
tubes. 
-- 
sam henry <shenry@rice.edu>
Wanna ride?
From: Gerry_Furseth@mindlink.bc.ca (Gerry Furseth)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Helmet Stats
Date: 6 Oct 92 02:49:51 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

A few quick helmet stats for non-wearers:
Too hot: Hampsten was wearing his in the final sprint at this year's World
Championships after seven hours at 30+ Celsius.
Too heavy: Chiapucci wore one while winning his mountain stage in the tour.

If you are interested in deaths, the New England Journal of Medicine (volume
320; pp1361-7; 1989) has rather chilling numbers and an overwhelming
statistical conclusion: helmet wearers survive crashes much more often and
are less likely to be permanently handicapped.

Gerry.
(I'd rather being going up than going down; support your local mountains!)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.bicycles.tech
From: arpepper@math.uwaterloo.ca (Adrian Pepper)
Subject: computer attachments for cyclocomputer mounts?
Keywords: feasibility
Organization: University of Waterloo Math Faculty Computing Facility, Ontario.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 22:03:53 GMT

After so many people responded to my request for information about
leverless quick releases (for which I personally have no real use; I
was just wondering if it was a useful concept), maybe I will try asking
about another product which I think should exist but have never seen.

Has anyone ever seen or made something to attach to the mounting
bracket of a cyclocomputer which will allow a signal to be sent to some
input port of a computer.  Then all manner of software could be written
which could do everything from automatically recording logs to
providing imaginary scenery and adversaries for roller riding.

I saw two rather half-baked prototypes of this idea perhaps 6 to 8
years ago, but they were not designed to work with an existing
commercial cyclocomputer pickup and mount.  Ideally, perhaps, a
cyclocomputer could be made with a small socket to allow an output line
to a stationary computer in addition to its normal functions.

Note that here we should discuss only the technical feasibility of this
idea.  People responding with specific manufacturers and models should
direct their posts to rec.bicycles.marketplace 8-).  It is not clear
where discussions of the general marketing feasibility of the idea
should be directed.  8-) 8-)

Adrian Pepper.
arpepper@math.uwaterloo.ca
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: ddozier@daled.net.com (Dale Dozier)
Subject: DURA-ACE STI BRAKE LEVERS FOR SALE
Organization: Network Equipment Technologies
Distribution: ba
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:12:21 GMT



  I have a never used pair of Dura-Ace STI brake levers/shifters 
that I want to sell/trade for a pair of regular Dura-Ace brake levers
and down tube shifters. I will trade regular levers and shifters
for the STI levers and $150. The shifters must be 8 speed compatable
and in "mint" condition. If you have just the regular brake levers you
want to trade I will trade for $210. The STI levers come with
every thing you need and instruction manual.

Respond by mail or call me at work 415-780-5479.

-Dale


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com (Bob Geer)
Subject: Re: Glasses and goggles
Reply-To: bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 13:47:58 GMT

>>>brockr@muvaxa.rferl.org (Train, Learn, Climb, Ride) writes:
>>>>  Quick question:  as a rider who wears glasses (unfortunately I can't wear
>>>>contacts) I was wondering if anyone has heard of a company which sells goggles
>>>>which can fit over glasses?  Do such goggles even exist?  Thanks in advance.

Missed the original post...I was cycling at Mesa Verde & away from my
Internet daily fix.  Here's a cheap over-spectacles solution:

The League of American Wheelmen's Bicycling USA magazine has a
recurring ad for Kroops Goggles, an inexpensive (~$6) flexible plastic
goggle with vent holes in various tints & transparent that should fit
over most spectacles.  

From their ad in the Jan/Feb '92  Bicycling USA:

                        Kroop's Goggles
                        Dept. B
                        9865-E N. Washington Blvd.
                        Laurel, Md.  20707
                        (303) 498-5848
                        (303) 498-7393 (fax)

        Colors: clear, grey, amber, rose, red, blue, mirrored
        Price:  $5.75 ea.
                $7.75 for mirrored
                quantity discounts

        "Over-the-eyeglasses style available"

The clear ones I bought several years ago came with the proviso that
they are *not* safety goggles.
-- 
<> Bob `Bear' Geer | bgeer@beorn.sim.es.com                        |_______| <>
<>      lift-holic |  (this *often* works)        _O_    |___O___| | |_O_| | <>
<> Salt Lake City, | speaking only for myself, |_|_|_|_| | `'|`' |     |     <>
<>          Ootah  | one of my many tricks     |  / \  |    / \       / \    <>
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles:22802 rec.bicycles.misc:657 rec.bicycles.soc:359