HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Attitudes
Date: 1 Jan 93 20:29:05 GMT
Organization: University of Florida, Gainesville

In article <990gwB2w165w@netlink.cts.com> galan@netlink.cts.com (Greg Gross) writes:

# The first step in doing *anything,* really, is believing that you
# can.
#
# How do we go about instilling this attitude in black youth, and in
# young black adults who might yet have productive years ahead of
# them?

One step might be to try to frame the problem in terms of specific
goals rather than broad, nebulous categories like racism, oppression,
culture, etc.

Look at the rhetoric that comes out of highly publicized incidents
like the Rodney King case.  Much of it focuses not on what can be done
to prevent such things from happening again, but on how this proves
that racism is still rampant in America.  Scoring points doesn't win
this game.

A year or two ago there was talk in some LA neighborhood of hiring a
private police force to make up for the deficiencies of the LAPD.  You
can argue that those residents shouldn't have to take such a step, but
it *is* a step toward solving the problem.  What ever happened to it?

There was a CNN report about 6 months ago about groups in Chicago
called "loan circles" (I think) that pooled their assets and resources
to get loans for one member of the group at a time.  Why don't we hear
more of this sort of initiative?

Someone on s.c.a.a maybe a year ago talked about tutoring programs set
up through churches in Baltimore, as I remember, to try to compensate
for the inadequacies of the public schools.  Is this happening on any
measurable scale?

What about counseling services to keep track of what businesses
*don't* discriminate against blacks, what schools have congenial
atmospheres, what neighborhoods have a reputation for tolerance?

What about consumer services keeping track of the integration efforts
of companies and organizing boycotts?

I'm somewhat of a news junkie, and I find it amazing that I almost
never see a black leader saying anything innovative or constructive
about improving the lot of blacks in this country.  It's like after
accomplishing all the governmental changes in the 60s, they flat ran
out of ideas.  Even the newsreports pointing out discrimination in
housing, loans, promotions, etc., are apparently initiated by
journalists, not black leaders.

Where are the black leaders?

David
From: st0o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Steven Timm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Minorities in Science
Date: 1 Jan 93 18:55:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.EfFG11a00YUo0DHmg2
Organization: Doctoral student, Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

It's obvious that the statistic that was quoted:  With grades and background
equal in high school, white students are more likely to get a science degree
than blacks.

But the statistic we were not given, which I would be much interested in, 
is how many Black students start science degrees in college, and is the 
failure rate in science programs for blacks higher than the failure rate
in other programs?  Is the real discrimination happening before they ever 
get to college by tracking them away from the hard math-science core?

Steve Timm
From: ww@nyxfer.UUCP
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Date: 30 Dec 92 14:21 PST
Subject: Fighting the Klan in Cincinnati
Nf-ID: #N:N16LwB2w165w@nyxfer.uucp:-1699246687:000:2261
Nf-From: nyxfer.uucp!ww    Dec 30 14:21:00 1992


Subject: Fighting the Klan in Cincinnati
From: nyxfer!ww (Workers World Service)


Via The NY Transfer News Service * All the News that Doesn't Fit


Crossing the Klan in Cincinnati

By Shelley Ettinger

Four times at the end of December the Ku Klux Klan and police 
erected a Klan cross in downtown Cincinnati. Four times 
anti-racist residents knocked it down.

Early on the morning of Dec. 28 the Klan raised their symbol 
again. Again the cops assisted them. And the anti-racist forces 
vowed to down the cross once more.

The skirmishes provided a clear lesson about which side the 
government is on when it comes to the Klan and the struggle 
against racism.

They also showed how communities can rally and unite against such
an offense. People in Cincinnati weren't fooled by the city 
government's claim it's just protecting the Klan's "religious 
freedom."

WHO ARE THE CRIMINALS?

Each time, Klan members had to sneak down the streets in the dead
of night to elude angry anti-racist crowds and erect the cross. 
Police guarded them, and reportedly even helped in the 
construction work.

Then, each time, the cops proceeded to arrest everyone who tried 
to take the cross down. Nevertheless, several anti-racist 
activists succeeded, knocking it down, breaking it, stomping and 
spitting on it.

They were charged with disorderly conduct. But that's not all. 
According to the Associated Press, Police Capt. Walt McAlpin said
he "will send a report on the `vandalism' to Klan owners [of the 
cross] and leave it to them if they want to press charges of 
criminal damaging."

The Dec. 28 version of the Klan cross has steel braces supporting
it at the base and center. Police are videotaping the site round 
the clock to discourage any further attempts to damage it.

Anti-racist organizers say they don't expect the cross to stay 
standing for long.

                               -30-

(Copyright Workers World Service: Permission to reprint granted if
source is cited. For more info contact Workers World, 46 W. 21
St., New York, NY 10010; email: ww%nyxfer@igc.apc.org; "workers"
on PeaceNet; on Internet: "workers@mcimail.com".)


 NY Transfer News Service * All the News that Doesn't Fit
 Modem: 718-448-2358  *  Internet: nytransfer@igc.apc.org
From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Was Slavery Really All that Bad?....
Date: 30 Dec 1992 22:20:26 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1992Dec29.160903.16648@vax5.cit.cornell.edu>,
q2tj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
>I know that many will find this unbelievable, but
>I once had to carefully and delicately explain to
>someone what was so bad about slavery.
>
>It's a funny little story that might also illuminate
>just how difficult it can be playing with the psychology
>of some people to get a difficult point accross.
>
>A friend of mine, intelligent and well meaning asked me:
>
>=====================paraphrase of someone else==========================
>"Well, Slavery was bad and all....but there can be much
>worse.  But it's not like there were programs to kill them
>all.  Is it possible that the tradgedy of it all is being
>exaggerated, especially in comparison to a number of
>this century's holocausts (Pol Pot, Armenia, Nazi, to name a few)"
.
.
Your so-called friend was playing a game called "ranking."  Ranking
is another way of saying, the loss of your ancestors wasn't so bad,
that was the name of the game at that time. And, by the way, my
grandparents getting chilled in the ovens was ten times worse.
.
It's not so much the dirty, despicable deed of killing people that
makes it so bad; but the mindset of these same banal killers who
have kids, pet their doggies and die in bed. And their children are
heirs to this kind of thinking...
.
To me, the holocaust of African people who were snatched up into the
system of slavery, loaded onto ships that were tailed for sea miles
by sharks and were berthed in harbors that reeked with the bloated
bodies of black people, is just as bad as Somalia, Idi Amin, the
concentration camps...etc., et al.  It is the same hatred, the same
greed and dehumanizing.
From: cr614@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Monee C. Kidd)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: separate but equal???
Date: 31 Dec 1992 01:57:42 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


In article #22610 of soc.culture.african.american, sawyer@utahep
.uta.edu (Lee Sawyer) writes:

>[note reference]
> This is an extreme oversimplifacation of the La. desegregation
>issue, and in fact as far as I know no one has mentioned the                    
>fact that both Southern and Grambling had pretty good teams
>this year.

In the article I read, the football programs were mentioned. I
think the two schools exist for different reasons, the same reasons
we have Brigham Young and Yeshiva. I think HBCUs serve a 
purpose, and though I don't attend one, many people might not 
go to college were it not for an HBCU.
-- 
       "Whatever happened to Peace?"    -Eric B. & Rakim
     ********    This is our year - GO CAVS!!!    ********
                         ~ mc kidd ~
~ cr614@cleveland.freenet.edu ~ kidd47@wilma.wharton.upenn.edu ~ 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african.american:13257 alt.discrimination:5455
From: isbell@ai.mit.edu (Charles L Isbell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: I'm Still Waiting
Date: 22 Dec 92 08:39:00
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
Distribution: usa,local
	<1992Dec18.124513.1@violet.ccit.arizona.edu>
	<1992Dec18.232436.25984@panix.com>
	<1992Dec21.101933.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pop-tarts.ai.mit.edu
In-reply-to: ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu's message of 21 Dec 92 17:19:33 GMT

lkk@panix.com (Larry Kolodney) writes:
|>>  You say Brazil since, blacks are the majority and white is the
|>>  minority, yet 
|>>  they(whites) rule.  
|>>  My point was, why isn't there more civil unrest with respect to racism, in
|>>  Brazil if it is so brutal as compared to the U.S.?
|> 
|> The same reason there was not civil unrest among U.S. blacks except in
|> the past two generations.  Besides, Brazil has been under military
|> dictatorship for most of its history.  Your observation demonstrates
|> nothing.  

But, actually, this isn't true, unless you're defining some really
strict meaning of "civil unrest."  Racial riots tend to occur in
bunches about once a generation (~25 yrs--those who have been on the
net long enuff recall I said three years ago that the next set were
due 1992-1993) and in the case of US Blacks this goes back to around
the time of the civil war (as I recall) and, if you count slave
revolts and the like, even much further back than that.

It's just that we've had no TV before the last generation to record
the events in all their glory.


--
Peace.
"What a terrible thing to have lost one's mind.  Or not to have a mind
 at all.  How true that is."
                -- Vice President Dan Quayle winning friends while
                   speaking to the United Negro College Fund
                                   -\--/-
    Don't just adopt opinions     |  \/  |       Some of you are homeboys
          develop them.           |  /\  | but only I am The Homeboy From hell
                                   -/--\-
From: cwm54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Who cares what whites think about racism ?
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 12:06:15 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.230123.24444@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> johnson@whitewater.chem.wisc.edu (Art Johnson) writes:
>In article <1992Dec28.011258.5522@news.acns.nwu.edu>
>dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson) writes:
>
>     [...some stuff deleted...]
>
>> I only said that I want AfAms to do the
>> same things that whites do like whites support white businesses, whites
>live
>> in predominately white areas, whites attend white schools. When I say
>that I
>> want AfAms to do the same things, then of course, the white scream that
>this
>> is seperatist. Is it seperatist because I don't want AfAms to continue
>to
>> run behind whites and continue to beg them to accept us ?
>
>     Dowdy, I have generally found that, when whites and blacks use the
>word "self-help" wrt black folk, the two are talking about two very
>different things. When a black person says that black Americans need to
>help themselves, s/he means that blacks should get together *as a group*
>and help each other out, whether it be in education, or in housing, or in
>finding job opportunities, etc. When a white person says that black
>Americans should help themselves, s/he usually does *not* mean that black
>folks should organize together as a group. S/he means that each black
>American *individually* should help him/herself, i.e. the black person
>should *on his own*, educate himself by going to the library, checking out
>some books, and reading them. Or buy a newspaper and look in the
>classified ads for job or housing opportunities.
>
>     This leads to the question of why so many whites approve of, say,
>Italians, or Jews, or Koreans, helping themselves through group
>solidarity, but disapprove when Africans propose doing the same thing. In
>the other cases, the size of the groups is quite small, so they pose no
>real or imagined power threat, no matter how well organized they may be.
>But there are one hell of a lot of Africans in this country, and the
>thought of well-organized Africans scares a lot of white people (one black
>man helping himself is admirable; ten black men helping each other out
>constitutes an insurrection). The image of the slave insurrection still
>has a too much of a grip on a significant portion of the white psyche, I'm
>afraid.
>
>     [...stuff deleted...]
>
>Arthur Johnson
>johnson@whitewater.chem.wisc.edu




       Well said. Even *I* couldn't have said it better. Seriously, this
       *is* the arguement against those who wanna make Malcolm a republican
       posthumously.


		    Carlyle
From: q2tj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: racism
Date: 28 Dec 92 16:59:45 EST
Distribution: soc
Organization: Cornell University

rdailey@netlink.cts.com (Ron Dailey) writes: 
> I'm neew to this network but I am appaled at the ignorance  of the 
> writer's about their history. Racism is at its heartis ECONOMIC. It was 
> created by europeans as a justification  for the rape and pillage of the 
> rest of the world. Whaat most of the white writers are cinfused about is 
> that they tend to equate the economic basis of racism with the individual 
> issues of predjudice.

	Hey buddy, get yer keyboard fiiiiixed   ;-)

	(thanks for your comments)

	I'm glad someone brought this issue up.  Here, at an illustrious
	Ivy league institution, black and white students argue on
	this issue whenever the two groups meet in public forums
	(like sensitivity workshops, letters to editor of school
	newspaper, racism-related-classes, debates with administrators)

	And boy do the cliches start to fly hot and heavy!!!!!

	Now, please correct me if the following is in anyway unfamiliar
	or distorted.

The story always seems to be the same.  The black students use the
word racism in a collective sense (as in "institutional racism").
The white students only use the word to express what is contained
in the individual (ie. racism is a synonym for extreme prejudice that
takes a political expression, ie. Klan etc.)

No one wants to even seriously consider the viability of the 
collective versus the individual; and what sort of collective
approaches are to be used (Marxist? Social-Utopian? post-structural-
semiotic whatever the hell that is??? ;-)  Well, pretty soon the
whole discussion gets pretty stupid pretty fast. (as everyone is
pretty set in their ways, we all know how conservative young
people are since they are since they are still young enough
to know everything.)

And it all seems soooo predictable.  Someone will say
"prejudice + power = racism,  whites have the power.  it's
a white-power-establishment by and for whites, so they're
*all* racist, by definition"  Of course, no one likes to have
the finger pointed at them, so most of the white students will
get irritated (and not listen to blacks).

I don't really see the point.  This is typical fare for student
demonstrations and ralleys....and it's pretty shallow.

If prejudice+power=racism, then only Rockefeller can be racist ;-)
                          
Also, if we accept this equation, then the Black Power movement
would have to be labelled as "pre-racist"

I think there's a lot of psychology in additions to economics that gets
mixed in with this racism mess and that a very broad eclectic approach
is needed.  I'm not sure that coming from a left wing political/economic
point of view is needed.  Anyway, what I see is that these issues
are going to have to be discussed in a much more sophisticated and broad
way if they are going to be taken seriously in an academic setting
(among students)

And if your goal is actually to influence the way whites think, I suspect
that depolitization of the analysis may be more effective .
(ie.  NO MARXISM  ;-)

Steve Seidman
From: djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Institutional racism
Date: 25 Dec 92 03:20:07 GMT
Distribution: usa,local
Organization: University of Florida, Gainesville

In article <BzJu2L.Kw3@quake.sylmar.ca.us> brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:

# A revolution is a change in government.  What would you have the
# government do differently than it is currently doing?

For the past 12 years, our top government leaders have encouraged
racial antagonism.  Sometimes the means has been terribly direct
(Reagan's "welfare queen", Bush's Willie Horton ads), sometimes
intellectually veiled (attacks on affirmative action *without*
providing an alternative, fighting improved medical care, vetoing the
civil rights bill), and sometimes just through encouraging brutal
competition.

Most of the blacks you're talking to today are too young to remember
the "golden age" of race relations (in the North and West, at least),
from about 1965 to 1980.  They have not seen improvement in their
lifetimes.

I have no idea whether Clinton is actually going to be a competent
president, but I think that in this area he understands clearly the
psychological damage the Republicans have caused and is working to
reverse it by example.

I hope it works.

David
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Investment
From: galan@netlink.cts.com (Greg Gross)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 12:14:01 PST
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

Much has been made off an on about the purchasing power of the black 
community, but one look around America's cities and you don't see much 
being done with it. Not nearly enough, anyway.

So why not pool our money and let what financial resources we do have do 
some work for us?

Several years ago, a number of specific mutual funds were formed on Wall 
Street. These funds made it a point *not8 to invest in war-related 
industries. They also made it a point to invest in companies that had 
good equal-opportunity hiring records and were environmentally sound.

What is to prevent us from doing something similar for ourselves?

Whatis to prevent us from forming investment clubs of aour own, at the 
local level first, then larger...identify well-run companies with a 
history of equal-opportunity hiring or investment in black communities, 
or both, and invest in those firms? 

Or pool our money to be able to make loans to people wanting to start uyp 
their own businesses in black communities. Banks traditionally have used 
"redlining" against us; with our own pool of money to invest, we can work 
inside their red lines to our own advantage.

What is to prevent a block of residents, or a church, or a social club, 
or any group of folks in the 'hood from pooling some money together, 
buying a rundown property in the neighborhood, then fixing it up and 
either renting it or selling it?

And there are doubtless other ways we can put some of that legendary 
"buying power" to work for something other than buying cancer sticks and 
"8-ball." 

What are those ways?
G.

--
Gregory Alan Gross      Welcome to life, where no good deed goes unpunished.
San Diego Union-Tribune         (619) 293-1270 (voice)
P.O. Box 191                    (619) 293-1896 (fax)
San Diego, CA 92112-4106        galan@netlink.cts.com (Internet)
From: cr614@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Monee C. Kidd)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: s.c.a.a.penpals
Date: 30 Dec 1992 06:24:34 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


I'm not sure this is going to be met with approving eyes, but I
didn't wasn't particularly interested in the traffic over in 
soc.penpals  or alt.personals ;). My request is this; I do 
believe that I am the only African-American woman at Penn who 
likes both intellectual discussion and computers. As one of a
rare breed it's rather lonely. I was curious if there are any
college aged Af-Am men out there interested in cultivating a
friendship (*purely* friendship) based on the assumption that
there aren't that many of us out here. If so, send me e-mail
direct (only those with a sense of humor need bother ;)

Again I apologize 1000 times over if this note is inappropriate!
Forgive me, I'm still new to this!
-- 
       "Whatever happened to Peace?"    -Eric B. & Rakim
     ********    This is our year - GO CAVS!!!    ********
                         ~ mc kidd ~
~ cr614@cleveland.freenet.edu ~ kidd47@wilma.wharton.upenn.edu ~ 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african.american:13339 misc.education:5590
From: mcbean@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
Subject: Re: What A White Person Learned in College About AfAm Culture
Date: 30 Dec 92 15:32:17 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <168C91469E.DRPORTER@SUVM.SYR.EDU>, DRPORTER@SUVM.SYR.EDU (Brad Porter) writes:
> In article <1992Dec18.045728.27773@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
> ndw2u@curry.edschool.Virginia.EDU (Nicole Danielle Woodard) writes:
>  
>>The claim that African-Americans are just like other minorities
>>that have come to this country is completely erroneous.  From
>>the moment of our interaction in North America, whites
>>exploited African-Americans.  Unlike any other minority, the
>>oppression of African-Americans was legislated by the founders
>>of this nation since its inception.  The oppression
>>began with slavery and continued with disfranchisment, Jim Crow
>>laws, the Black Codes, segregation, and it continues today
>>through covert forms of oppression.
> Really?  That's sincere, not sarcastic.  I don't live in the real world,
> I live in a town in NY with an African-America population of at most 10 out
> of 3000.  Yet even while I've probably only know 5 or 6 African-Americans
> personally, I don't think I have a deep-rooted hatred for any minority group.
> At the same time, I'm not qualified to debate what the rest of society
> believes.  I guess I have a hard time believing there is an underlying
> prejudice against African-Americans throughout white society.  Prejudice
> is a personal, not societal matter isn't it?  My fear however, is that
> because of AA, I'm going to have an extremely difficult time finding a job -
> much more difficult than a woman or minority will.  Don't get tripped up
> by this question:  Is is worse for an African-American to be prejudice
> against a white because his/her ancestors were slave-holders, or is it
> worse for a white to be prejudiced against an African-American because
> his/her ancestors were slaves?

If it is so much more difficult for a white man to get a job why is it that
unemployment among blacks is on average twice that among whites?  Get a clue.
Are you concerned that African-Americans will be refused jobs because of
discrimination? 

It amazes me how people act surprised that after generations of continuing
discrimination that blacks would express a dislike for white people.  It's
called human nature.  Not everybody subsribes to the dictum "Love those that
despisefullly use you".


>                                    -Brad Porter
> PS - Could someone tell me what is PC:  Blak, Black, African-American, and why?
> DRPORTER@SUVM
>