HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: library@comlab.ox.ac.uk (Gordon Riddell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: london, england
Date: 22 Jan 93 10:56:31 GMT
Organization: Oxford University Computing Laboratory, UK
Originator: library@merlin.comlab

In article <1993Jan20.105117.16835@walter.cray.com> cmfb@cray.com (Chris Bone) writes:
>>
>>But what would you do instead?   Many US newspapers are also called
>>"Times" or "Observer".   No US newspaper is called "Le Monde" or
>>"La Stampa", so people don't feel the need to attach city
>>names to these.
>
>Why not The British Times...
>
Well given the in-built metropolitan bias of our "national" press I think
London Times is quite appropriate.

Gordon
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.usage.english
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Back from the UK
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:52:52 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.170629.31421@watson.ibm.com> yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo) writes:
:(or the British "How do you do?") 

I trust our American readers are aware that the correct response to 'how do
you do.' is another 'how do you you do.'  It's not a question, and anyone
who answers 'very well thank you' is immediately marked as beyond the pale.

G
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: tjo@its.bt.co.uk (Tim Oldham)
Subject: Re: Back from the UK
Organization: BT Group Computing Services, Birmingham, UK
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 12:50:53 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.223044.1@wombat.newcastle.edu.au> eepjm@wombat.newcastle.edu.au (Peter Moylan) writes:
>This is becoming common everywhere, it seems.  I'm at present in the
>middle of house-hunting, and have found that I can come close to guessing
>the price of a house knowing only the number of toilets.

It leads to the lunacy of the modern detached house with as many bogs
as beds. My sister-in-law and her husband's newly-built house in
Basingstoke as three bedrooms and three bogs. Number of inhabitants: two.

I hate to think how much they'll pay over the 25 years of their mortgage for
the privilege of a redundant toilet. 

	Tim.
-- 
Tim Oldham, BT Group Computing Services.       tjo@its.bt.co.uk
``Sounds good to me''
From: Trevor.Kirby@newcastle.ac.uk (Trevor Kirby)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: guide dogs
Date: 28 Jan 93 08:59:13 GMT
Organization: Computing Laboratory, U of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK NE1 7RU.


In article <1993Jan26.112057.28412@adobe.com>, cjackson@adobe.com (Curtis Jackson) writes:

>Perhaps these reasons are obvious only to British readers.
>Could you explain? The U.S. has far superior guide dog
>breeding, training, and placement organisations both in terms
>of quality and quantity.
>-- 
Go on I'm intrigued, is this a case of "our guide dogs kick ass" or have
you experiance of guide dog training in both countries.

 Trev
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Squidgy? Was: Re: Dianagate [was Re: Different Newspapers ...]
Reply-To: Hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron, Experiment ZEUS bei HERA
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:30:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.072138.2697@netcom.com>, sue@netcom.com (Sue "Squidgy"
Miller) writes:

|>In article <IDF.93Jan22021648@fat-controller.cs.bham.ac.uk> idf@cs.bham.ac.uk
|>(Ian Fitchet) writes:
|>>
|>> On 20 Jan 93, Sue Miller wrote
|>>> Unfortunately for me, I bear a slight resemblance to Mrs. Wales (big nose,
|>|>>> bluish eyes, blonde hair) and several of my coworkers have taken to
|>calling 
|>>> me this name...
|>>
|>> What, `big nose'?
|>
|>Didn't you hear me?  Oh, you think that's what they
|>call me.  I wish.  No, I'm "Squidgy".  Sigh.

Ahh... but how do you do in the toe sucking department?

--

Phill Hallam-Baker
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,uk.politics
From: daniel@scs.leeds.ac.uk (D N Crow)
Subject: Re: Tony Benn to abolish monarchy
Originator: daniel@csgi60
Organization: The University of Leeds, School of Computer Studies
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 10:43:23 GMT
X-Posted-From: csgi60.leeds.ac.uk
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu


In article <C1GroH.JF6@cck.coventry.ac.uk>, cmh004@cck.coventry.ac.uk (Dave) writes:
|> >   replacing the monarch with a president. 
|> President Thatcher, Major - Please God save us.
|> 

Excuse me removing the rest of your post, but this is the bit that interests
me the most...

I've seen this exact sentiment expressed frequently... indeed it often seems
to be the most impressive argument that opponents of a republic in Britain
can must (!).

A couple of points for debate:

1) It depends a great deal on the nature of the presidency. There is a huge
difference between the roles of President Clinton of America and President
Robinson of Ireland (for example). If we became a republic, we would hopefully
replace our "constitutional" monarchy with its (in practice) limited powers,
with a president with similarly limited powers, rather than an executive
president as they have in the states. The Irish model seems emminently
sensible.

2) The whole point of President Thatcher is that at least we could get rid
of her, if we wanted to. What happens if King Charles III goes off his
rocker and starts trying to exercise some of the significant dormant powers
of the monarchy? There's nothing we can do to get rid of him...

Personally, I would be appalled by President Thatcher or Major, but at least
I'd have some say in getting rid of him/her. With Charlie-boy there's
nothing you or I can do... he's completely above the law and any form of
democratic accountability. Given those choices, give me a republic any day.

-- 
Dan Crow
daniel@scs.leeds.ac.uk
From: bocmunro@bnr.co.uk (Bruce Munro)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: British Sitcoms, etc.
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:47:04 GMT
Organization: BNR Europe, New Southgate, London.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bnsgs179.bnr.co.uk

In article <1k3k5hINN2iu@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC) writes:
>In article <1993Jan26.134819.7595@infodev.cam.ac.uk>, Malcolm Binns			 writes:
>
>> 
>> Felicity Kendall was known as the thinking mans crumpet at the time
>> the Good Life was being shown ..... I Think therefore I am.
>
>Much as I prefer Felicity Kendal, I thought that comment was actually
>made about Joan Bakewell. I forget who said it though.

Frank Muir, I believe.

-- 
Bruce Munro.  <B.O.C.Munro@bnr.co.uk> (Note new address)
BNR Europe Ltd, Oakleigh Rd South, London N11 1HB. 
Phone : +44 81 945 2174 or +44 81 945 4000 x2174
"There are no strangers, only friends we don't recognise" - Hank Wangford
From: w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,uk.politics
Subject: Re: Tony Benn to abolish monarchy
Date: 27 Jan 93 12:02:37 GMT
Reply-To: w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk
Organization: Chemical & Process Engineering Dept, University of Newcastle, UK.

cmh004@cck.coventry.ac.uk (Dave) writes:

>>   Does anyone know anything about his proposed new house of parliament
>>Is it to be a duplicate of the Commons?
>>Is it meant to be elected by the same system (ie one member per local
>>    constituency, elected by first past the post)

>If it was elected by the same method and with the same constituencies then
>we might as well not bother with a new house as it would be HofC mark2.

   It could be elected by the same method but still be very different.
For instance only allow members of the government to come from the Commons
then the MP's in the other house could only advance in politics by 
doing well on the parliamentary committees.

    IF you also banned any former member of the other house from standing
for the Commons for 10 years or so, and from serving on Quangos, 
committees etc whihc are appointed by the government then it would
be far harder for the governemtn to control the members of the other
house the way it currently controls the Commons.

   In summary have a second house whose job is to keep an eye on the
government - a separation of powers a bit like the US where both 
houses keep an ey on the government.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: short@zws016.enet.dec.com ()
Subject: Re: Back from the UK
Reply-To: short@zws016.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:38:47 GMT


I went to Boston last month purely with the intention of testing this
quasi-related phenomenon of women there `really digging your groovy
accent'. It transpired to be false, unfortunately.

I think the thing to remember about `have a nice day' is that a response
is not expected...

On an unrelated topic, I can't think of anything worse than being Welsh
and working on computers in Birmingham...apart from the Balti houses...
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:19623 rec.arts.books:26616
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Request for References
Date: 29 Jan 1993 02:36:55 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
NNTP-Posting-Host: vongole.mit.edu

Philip Nikolayev writes:

>I am rather desperate for references to (preferably specialised, but 
>other kids are welcome too) studies pertaining to English courtly 
>etiquette and diplomatic protocol during, roughly, the Elizabethan 
>period. If you know of any characteristic primary sources, please 
>point them out as well.

	I only know of two good primary sources but they are great fun
to read:
*The Book Named the Governor* by Sir Thomas Elyot (1531)
*The Book of the Courtier* by Baldesar Castiglione (1528)

Elyot's comments on dancing, on archery and hunting, and on the decay
of learning are very good. Castiglione's attitude is summed up in the
comment of James Joyce's brother to JJ that after Joyce had read *the
Courtier* he had become more polite but less sincere.

Keith
--

Keith Morgan kamorgan@athena.mit.edu
You haven't experienced Shakespeare until you've read him in the
original Klingon - Chancellor Gorkon
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: mortenny@idt.unit.no (Morten Andersen Nyg}rd)
Subject: Re: succession
Reply-To: mortenny@idt.unit.no (Morten Andersen Nyg}rd)
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 14:48:58 GMT

I have no idea how many people are on this list, but I know The King of Norway,
Harald V, is number 50. But I imagine this list is almost endless... 

Morten.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Morten Andersen Nygaard     *  The Norwegian Institute of Technology *
Volveveien 14,              *  Department of Computer Science        *
N-7033 TRONDHEIM
NORWAY                      *  Norway: Land of the Vikings, whaling  *
                            *          and the 1994 Olympic WGames.  *
Phone: +47-7-931656

Internet: mortenny@idt.unit.no       OR              man@solan.unit.no
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: British phones in France
Date: 25 Jan 93 10:40:18 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <MIKE.93Jan22160008@flinders.vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at> mike@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Michael Gschwind) writes:
   

   in the meantime,
   vive la deregulation!
You hope the EC Commission does something about it? Hahahahahaha!! You
seem to have a naive view of what the EC Commission does!! It's actions
can be divided into two (non-exclusive) categories:
a) Stupid blunders
b) Blatant favoritism towards France

As Lord Someoneororther recently said, the best definition of "subsidiarity"
is telling Brussels to get stuffed.





-- 
===Jeremy Henderson===jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk=          
BUGS   The SLEEP command may not work on either parent processes for some
       time afterward, as new BABY processes constantly send interrupts
       which must be handled by one or more parent.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: R.J.Woolley@lut.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Different Newspapers ...
Reply-To: R.J.Woolley@lut.ac.uk (Robert Woolley)
Organization: Loughborough University, UK.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 12:26:43 GMT

In article <D84WB15Z@cc.swarthmore.edu> ment@cs.swarthmore.edu (Andrew Ment) writes:
>cmorris@Ingres.COM (Colin Morris) writes:
>
>On the topic of newspapers, I've just recently returned from Britain, to
>the U.S. and I have to say that I was singularly disappointed with the 
>NEwspapers there.  I'm not speaking of the daily record, but the 
>"quality" papers like the independent and the times.
>
>First of all they're damned expensive.  As a student it was hard to justify
>spending 45 pence for a paper when I was trying to spend 75 on my tea.
>
The quality papers are more expensive due to their lower circulation than the
tabloids and the fact that they carry lees advertising than the American papers.
Furthermore, their costs are higher.
>sEcond of all, the newspapers in the world's most international city
>were singularly absorbed with domestic news.  Reading the independent,
>which I was told was the best but now I would prefer the Guardian, one
>gets a large amount of information about what has happened in the past
>day in the UK.  For the past two weeks the press complaint's commission
>got pretty much the main focus.  (I know that they're self-interested, but
>it is not as if the rest of the world took a nap, big things were happening
>in Bosnia and Iraq!).  Almost never is there a decent background piece on
>other, less prominent, parts of the world.
>
>- andrew
The New York Times is the exception in the US. Most US papers have pitifully
little foreign news. Recent analysis of The Independent shows that there is 
the same amount of space devoted to UK as to EC and foreign stories.

The PCC stories have been appearing becuase the issue of press freedom 
(of speech and to intrude into peoples' private lives is at stake).
Notice how much was written about the US election. I'll bet, outside NYT, there
was very little written about the UK election or that of any other country.

The impression I got from American papers is that, excluding NYT, they can 
barely grasp the national picture, let alone the international one.

Rob.
<R.J.Woolley@uk.ac.lut>
From: smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: london, england
Date: 25 Jan 1993 10:08:39 GMT
Organization: SunConnect
Distribution: soc
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.france.sun.com

In article <4029@wyse.wyse.com>, jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497) writes:
> In article <1jlnnhINNnvf@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC) writes:
> >In article <4022@wyse.wyse.com>, jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497) writes:
> >> In article <ba1702Em32cB01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> czl30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Chris Lee) writes:
> >
> >>                                 We also enjoy
> >> California Cuisine, which is your basic Nouvelle Cuisine, but made with 
> >> fresh ingredients year round.
> >
> >Unfortunately mixed with the no-salt, low-cholesterol, half-fat, one calorie
> >zero flavour other ingredients...
> >
> 
> 
> Oh, I forgot, we also have good health and long life.

Hmm, according to the CIA World Factbook (OK, so its all I have to hand)

In the USA
Life expectancy:	72 (Male) 79(Female)
Infant Mortality rate:	10 deaths/1000 births


In the UK
Life expectancy:	73 (Male) 79(Female)
Infant Mortality rate:	7 deaths/1000 births

Ireland
Life expectancy:	73 (Male) 79(Female)
Infant Mortality rate:	6 deaths/1000 births

France
Life expectancy:	74 (Male) 82(Female)
Infant Mortality rate:	6 deaths/1000 birth



Another bottle please, Garcon...


Steve


-- 
Steve McKinty
SUN Microsystems ICNC
38240 Meylan, France
email: smckinty@france.sun.com	   BIX: smckinty
From: rf@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,uk.politics
Subject: Re: Tony Benn to abolish monarchy
Date: 22 Jan 93 13:55:00 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK

In article <C194F8.18C@newcastle.ac.uk>, w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk writes:
|>   Tony Benn is to submit a private members bill to parliament
|> called something like "The Commonwealth of Great Britain Bill"

Given that private members' bills have essentially no chance of
becoming law, even if they're non-controversial, I would submit that
the `subject' of your article was a teensy bit misleading  :-)

|> [...]
|>    Does anyone know anything about his proposed new house of parliament
|> Is it to be a duplicate of the Commons?
|> Is it also to provide MP's for the government,

Given Benn's widely-publicised views on the HoC (he thinks it's the
greatest insititution in the universe, would kill - or at least change
constituencies - to get back to it if thrown out, would renounce a
peerage, would ...), I wouldn't imagine he would want to do other than
keep it essentially the same as it is.
--
Robin (Keep Radio 3 != Classic FM) Fairbairns       rf@cl.cam.ac.uk
U of Cambridge Computer Lab, Pembroke St, Cambridge  CB2 3QG, UK
From: vinita@redbird.pa.dec.com (Vinita Bhatia)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Survey of international students
Date: 25 Jan 93 07:08:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: redbird.9301251908.AA01006
X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA03828; Mon, 25 Jan 93 14:02:14 -0800
X-Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA20598; Mon, 25 Jan 93 14:02:12 -0800
X-Received: by redbird.umsl.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA01006; Mon, 25 Jan 93 13:08:35 CST
X-To: soc.culture.british.usenet
X-Content-Type: text
X-Content-Length: 572

This is a request for help in a survey of facilities provided to internation
students on different campuses.  I need the information for a class project.

I will appreciate you sharing your experiences of the International Students
Offices in your university with me.  Please let me know of any program that
you thought was useful to you when you joined the school.  Also, if you felt
there was something for which you really needed help and was not addressed
before or after you joined the school.

Thanks for your help.

Vinita
-- 
Vinita Bhatia
vinita@redbird.umsl.edu
From: fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Different Newspapers ...
Date: 26 Jan 1993 19:30:49 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: weber.ucsd.edu

In article <30765@castle.ed.ac.uk> eagv17@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Babilas) writes:
>>  fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister) writes: 
>>> Bernie.Jones@cl.cam.ac.uk writes:
>
>> > (...)Brits simply aren't interested in anything that's
>> > happened outside the country (...)
>
>> This, alas, has been true for many years. A survey carried out by
>> the Colonial Office in the 1940s, in preparation for a public
>> education programme on the empire, revealed that three percent of
>> the British public believed that the US was still a colony.
>
>Nothing peculiar, I would say. In 1992 many Britons in Edinburgh (!) 
>didn't know/belive that Poland was indigenously inhabited by white 
>people. ("So, you're one of the settlers, aren't you?" - the  funniest 
>reaction). Alas, story based on my own experience. A bit mortifying. 
>
>mike/the polishman/ ==eagv17@castle.ed.ac.uk

For something even odder, read George Mikes' _How to be an
American_.  

-- 
Dawn over the dark sea brings on the sun;                      
She leans across the hilltop: see, the light!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.usage.english
From: yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo)
Subject: Re: Back from the UK
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 03:04:56 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <C184s6.G6J@demon.co.uk> gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.170629.31421@watson.ibm.com> yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo) writes:
>:(or the British "How do you do?") 
>
>I trust our American readers are aware that the correct response to 'how do
>you do.' is another 'how do you you do.'  It's not a question, and anyone
>who answers 'very well thank you' is immediately marked as beyond the pale.
>
>G

If, indeed, it is not a question, then would it not be simpler to merely
say "hello"?
(Forgive me, if "hello" and "hi" are uniquely American idiosyncrasies. :-))

-- 
 Ralph Yozzo (yozzo@watson.ibm.com)  
 From the beautiful and historic New York State Mid-Hudson Valley.
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Postperson Pat. Was Re: Britain and HK
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:52:53 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <C1Iwto.CuM@math.uwaterloo.ca> arpepper@math.uwaterloo.ca (Adrian Pepper) writes:
>In article <1993Jan26.215359.24513@netcom.com> sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:
>>David McSavaney writes:
>>>
>>>This caused me to pause and wonder - are UK kiddies still watching
>>>"Postman Pat"? Surely it is time to be a little more sensitive and
>>>call it "Postperson Pat"? Hmmm - would Saturday Night Live possibly
>>>be interested in the concept...
>>>
>>>Dave McSavaney
>>>                
>>>
>>
>>Now *here's* an interesting subject.  My daughter and nephews all
>>love Postman Pat.  The name can't be changed, nothing else will
>>scan.  "Postal Carrier Pat and his black & white cat.."  nah.
>>'Postperson' is an abomination, of course.
>
>When I was about five years old, living in Aldershot, Hants., I
>remember one day I happened to see that a woman was delivering our
>post.  I was somewhat surprised by this, and said that she must be a
>"postlady".
>
>"No", explained my father, "She is a postman.  She may be a female
>postman, but she is a postman."
>
>Since that time, I have always thought that this was the simplest
>solution.
>

Oh, thanks for clearing that one up for us.
From: sandell@chowning.CNMAT.Berkeley.EDU (Gregory J. Sandell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Americanisms (was Re: Back from the UK
Date: 28 Jan 1993 19:39:15 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: chowning.cnmat.berkeley.edu

> In article <1993Jan27.134735.9688@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk  
(Matthew Huntbach) writes:
> >
> >Where DO they get them from? No-one here is denying that
> >America is the greatest, most wonderful, freedom-loving,
> >oportunity-giving  etc. etc. motherhood and apple pie etc. etc.
> >etc. country in the world, but I am sorry, to the British ear,
> >all American accents sound much the same. 
> 

The issue is not how nationalistic you are but how TONE DEAF you are.  And  
there are also people with a psychological affliction who are incapable of  
discerning intonation patterns (aphasics or anaphasics, I can't remember  
which).  And there are people who just haven't been exposed to American  
regional accents.

In other words, get a life.
--
Greg Sandell
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R Pennell)
Subject: Re: london, england
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 22:37:51 GMT

gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry) writes:
: I think you missed my point.  The question was whether terms like "The
: West of England" were relative to London or referred to the country as
: a whole.  My point was that the true west of England (i.e. west of the
: central areas) is never referred to as such, whereas the region lying
: approximately due west of London frequently is.

	An even more striking example of this sort of thing is the
expression "Middle East" which is often taken to include Morocco (look at
it on the map!) Also the Far East when used in California!


Richard Pennell, History NUS
From: Albert.Gaylord@f40.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Albert Gaylord)
Sender: postmaster@therose.pdx.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Succession Order?
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 19:53:56 -0700

 > From: jrowney@arco.com
 > Newsgroups: soc.culture.british

 > What is the current succesion order?

 > Chuck, Chucks male kids, Andy etc.?

Charles
Charles's Children
Andrew
Andrew's Children
Edward
Anne
Anne's Children
Margaret
Margaret's Children

Then it begins to get too distant!

Albert Gaylord

Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.usage.english