From: tmorris@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Tim Morris)
Subject: Re: Ken's 4-Hit Touch of Death
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 03:05:44 GMT



West Jason Bruce writes:

>>>I was just getting so sick of everyone
>>>calling Bison "cheap" when Ken/Ryu obviosly have more unbalanced abilities.

I replied:

>>Bison is cheap, because all his effective strategies rely on high-power,
>>no-skill moves.  If you're holding the machine using skill with, say,
>>Honda, and some guy punches in with Bison, then you *know* what to 
>>expect - torpedo/throw, scissor-kick combo, scissor-kick/throw, headstomp/
>          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>                1                2                    3

South/East/North/West Jason Bruce writes:

>1)  EASY to reverse.  If can't reverse this with Honda you suck.

You just don't get it do you?  Hey, *I* can reverse Bison, but then again
I've spent hard hours getting GOOD at this game.  It's a lot easier for
a newbie to torpedo/throw than it is for a non-master to reverse.

	      Bison: torpedos then pounds the throw button.
Intermediate player: pounds his throw button.  Bison wins and gets the throw.

I've seen this happen way too many times.  The fact that most of the arcades
around here are (unfortunately) no-throw no-tick doesn't help much.

>2)  No such thing.  After a scizzor-kick you can block no matter what.

How about the endless scissor kick routine?  Scissor kick, jab, forward,
scissor kick.  Sure, you can block until the cows come home, but each
scissor means a couple of ticks of your life.  Sure an experienced 
player will know what to do (this routine doesn't worry ME, before you
jump in again) but your average player won't.

>3)  He is far enough away after kick that you should be able to EASILY
>    reverse throw (especially with Honda's awesome extended range)

Honda was an example.  Let's say it was Sagat, who's throwing range is 
pitiful.  Remember, M. Bison suffers almost no freeze penalty after
this (by all accounts) pounder of a move.

>Headstomp/throw?  Man, I didn't anybody sucked *that* bad.

Quit your posing, dude.  It won't work on you and I, but what about the 
middle man.

>   Everything you mentioned can be mimicked by most other characters.
>Ken can short kick/throw.  Or HK then throw.  But you can reverse this
>so you don't call it cheap.  

You're very fond of this Torpedo/HK comparison, but quite frankly it
doesn't hold much water with me.  IF the HK took off 6 clicks from 
a crouching opponent, and IF it travelled accross the whole screen and IF 
it was the most reliable method for Ken to win the round, then I'd say
Ken was a high-power low-skill character.

>You don't know how to reverse Bison - so
>you call him cheap...it's that simple.  

Wrong again.  I can and will reverse Bison and his cheese.  But I
will say that I find reversing Bison takes more skill than reversing 
most other characters, and you have to be a much better player to
reverse some of Bison's tactics than against the other guys.

>>the 4-hitter, bun Ken will rarely land this combo on you if you're
>>any good.  Sure, it's not balanced that he has the potential.  But

>   Now THAT is funny.  Ken/Ryu won't hit you with a flying fierce "if you're
>any good" - but Bison can flame/throw you.  

Any Bison can flame/throw you, only a good Ken will combo you.  I gues now
you're going to tell me how you learnt to smoothly buffer triple dragon
punches in half an hour.  Get real, Ken and Ryu are characters that take
*practice* before you get the payoff, unlike M. Bison.

>>with Bison, the cheese is flying thick and fast from the word go
>>until the end of the round, no matter who wins.  I'm just thankful

>   Do me a favor and attakc Bison from the proper distance with flying 
>roundhouse kicks.  

This tells me that you haven't fought any decent Bisons.  You try that
here and Bison jumps up with HIS roundhouse kick, which is almost
assuredly longer than yours.  In order to head off a predictable comment,
let me *again* emphasize that I, personally, don't lose to this guy.  But
a disproportionate number of players can and do.

>>that I can pick Guile or Ryu and beat most Bison's, imagine what
>>it's like for the intermediate players who don't stand a chance.

>   Any half-decent Z can kill Bison.  And any intermediate other character
>should be able to beat an *intermediate* Bison.  

I'm sorry, but an intermediate Sagat/Blanka/Ken/Balrog/Vega will lose
to an intermediate Bison.  These guys need to be able to whip off their
special moves without fail to win (eg. DP, Uppercut).

>Now, if the Bison is 
>*good* - then you will have to be *good*.  That's how it works with
>everybody.  

I think you'll find Bison's power plateaus a lot earlier than the other
characters.

>And this skill to damage ratio is crap:
>  How hard is a 3 hitter stun combo with Ryu?  It took me about an hour
>to get down.  

Oh really?  You, who had never played Ryu before, sat down and had his
stun combo off in an hour?  I'm impressed!  Come on, you already had Ryu
down fairly well, it was just a matter of applying this skill and
knowledge to a combo situation.  Endless torpedoes are the *first*
thing a Bison player learns, and that causes a *lot* of players
problems.  (Try and avoid the "well they suck!" response if you can).

>It takes a lot longer than that for Bison to learn
>spacing/timing and all that stuff for his moves.

You don't need spacing and timing unless the guy you're playing against 
knows what he's doing, ie, is considerably more skilled than you are.

--
Tim Morris
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2