HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nelson@berlioz.nsc.com (Taed Nelson)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: The BEM Test (BSRI)
Date: 8 Jan 1993 19:55:42 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

As promised, I've looked up the references for the BSRI (Bem Sex Role
  Inventory).

Probably the most informative one is:
	Sandra L. Bem, "Androgyny and Gender Schema Theory...", 1984 Nebraska
  Symposium on Motivation, edited by Teho B. Sonderegger.

I suspect that this will be hard to get for most people, so I can copy it for
  anyone who wants it.  It's a good paper.

This paper focuses on Gender Schema theory (a subset of general Schema Theory,
  but most of the soc.feminism readers probably aren't familiar with that) and
  how the BSRI helps to gain evidence for it.  Gender Schema theory says that
  we all have this built-in "schema" (look it up) for our adopted sex role,
  and that we perceive the world through it.

One of the more interesting experiments is where people who are sex-typed on
  the BSRI (they are either masculine or feminine) react to sex-typed
  adjectives flashed on a screen faster than non-sex-typed adjectives.
  Non-sex-typed people (neuter) show no such difference.  That is to say that
  a sex-typed reacts to the word "emotional" faster than they would to the
  word "thrifty" (I made up these examples).

Some easier-to-get papers would be:
	Bem, SL, "The Measurement of psychological androgyny", Journal of
  Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 42, 155-162.
	Bem, SL, "The theory and measurement of androgyny", Journal of
  Personality and Social Psychology, 37, 1047-1054.
	Bem, SL, "The BSRI and Gender Schema Theory", Psychological Review,
  88, 354-364.  [There are actually 2 BSRI papers in this issue.]

In addition, while on my Bem crusade, I would highly recommend the following
  two papers:
	Bem, SL, "Genital Knowledge and Gender Constancy", -- Oh no, this one
  is unpublished to my knowledge, but I got my copy of it about 5 or 6 years
  ago -- does anyone have the reference?  I'll make copies for anyone
  interested.  Basically, it shows that children (2-4 years old) who know
  about male and female genitals can "conserve" the sex of a picture -- even
  if the hair, clothes, etc, change.  Children without this knowledge use
  these clues to determine the sex of a child -- if a boy puts on a dress,
  then "magically" that person is now a girl.
	Bem, Daryl J., "A Consumer's Guide to Dual-Career Marriages", ILR
  Report, Fall 1987.


-- 
Post articles to soc.feminism, or send email to feminism@ncar.ucar.edu.
Questions and comments should be sent to feminism-request@ncar.ucar.edu.  This
newsgroup is moderated by several people, so please use the mail aliases. Your
article should be posted within several days.  Rejections notified by email.
From: mvwjf@mvgpf.att.com (William J Fallon)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Pornography and values
Date: 5 Jan 1993 17:43:30 GMT
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

In article <38029@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu> djohns@elm.circa.ufl.EDU ("David A. Johns") writes:
>One interesting aspect of this debate about pornography is that
>*interest* in pornography, in our society, at least, is primarily
>male.  This leaves women in the enviable position of having nothing to
>lose in the battle to eliminate it.
  
Well at any rate interest in what the established pornography industry
puts out may be primarily male. Some women (for example that EVIL
Paglia woman) do in fact express an interest in something called 
pornography. Now that something may not (and probably isn't) the
same thing as what's put out by the established pornography
industry but the interest is still there. Paglia was asked if she
thought Hilary Clinton was interested in pornography. Paglia said
she didn't think so. Obviously Hilary can't come out and say so.
Who knows, though, maybe she is. If the right stuff was available
maybe she'd buy it and maybe some day society will change enough so
she could actually admit it. The same day Martina Navratilova can
admit to all the things Magic Johnson admitted too and not be drummed
out of town.



-- 
Post articles to soc.feminism, or send email to feminism@ncar.ucar.edu.
Questions and comments should be sent to feminism-request@ncar.ucar.edu.  This
newsgroup is moderated by several people, so please use the mail aliases. Your
article should be posted within several days.  Rejections notified by email.
From: uunet!infmx!hartman@ncar.ucar.EDU (Robert Hartman)
Subject: Re: Deadly Intercourse
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.
Date: 12 Jan 93 22:40:44 GMT

In article <1it31n$qne@agate.berkeley.edu> seid@popov.EE.CORNELL.EDU (Steve Seidman) writes:
>Intercourse by Andrea Dworkin (1987, The Free Press, Macmillan)

>In a similar manner Dworkin also overstepped herself in a later
>chapter (dirt/death) where she mentions that the Hebrew root for
>vagina is "grave".  She quotes from the Mishnah, but the footnote
>reveals a modern 1950's source for the quote.  But how this
>association of vagina with death plays out in reality (especially in
>another's cultural context) is left to the imagination of the reader.

This paragraph in Steve's review sparked something that's been
bothering me for quite some time.  In the broadcast media, and movies
in particular, there is a scenario that occurs time and time again;
every time I see it I get angry.  The scenario is this: A man is being
seduced by a woman.  Just as he relinquishes control of the situation
and starts to go his feelings, she (or a co-conspiritor of hers) does
something awful to him.  The clearest example of this is the movie
Basic Instinct; that entire movie seems based on this theme.  Another
clear instance is in one of the Friday the 13th movies, where the sexy
nurse turns into Freddy Krueger.  But there are innumerable examples
of this scenario.

Talk about reinforcing misogyny and the view that women pose a threat
to be controlled at any cost!  When the prevailing cultural message to
men is that allowing oneself to feel during sex can get you killed,
the only "safe" way for a man to participate is to stay in complete
control.  While this isn't exactly a prescription for rape, it could
easily be construed that way (by both men and women).

-r

--
Post articles to soc.feminism, or send email to feminism@ncar.ucar.edu.
Questions and comments should be sent to feminism-request@ncar.ucar.edu.  This
news group is moderated by several people, so please use the mail aliases. Your
article should be posted within several days.  Rejections notified by email.
From: gds@FICUS.CS.UCLA.EDU (Greg Skinner)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Women and Men's Safety
Date: 8 Jan 1993 01:03:32 GMT
Organization: in your face!
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

In article <1iib3aINN9k3@agate.berkeley.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu writes:
>Imagine how that sounds to a rape victim.  "Hell, *I* didn't do it."
>All that she's been through, all that she fears, and you address it by
>saying, "Not MY problem."  It is ALL of our problem!  *I* didn't make
>this mess either, but if we don't start taking some damned personal
>responsibility instead of just yelling "not my job" we're just going to
>leave this mess to our grandchildren to clean up.  

By your own words then, you must (if you do not already)

* keep a respectable distance (e.g. across the street) from men who
  are approaching you late at night 
* exhort all women to do likewise

for the sake of the many men who have been sexually abused, mugged,
etc. by women.

--gregbo


-- 
Post articles to soc.feminism, or send email to feminism@ncar.ucar.edu.
Questions and comments should be sent to feminism-request@ncar.ucar.edu.  This
newsgroup is moderated by several people, so please use the mail aliases. Your
article should be posted within several days.  Rejections notified by email.
From: pol253b@monu1.cc.monash.edu.au (Ms D Alexander)
Subject: Re: Women's and men's safety
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: Monash University, Australia.
Date: 4 Jan 93 21:46:29 GMT

In article <1hsskrINN1pt@meaddata.meaddata.com> andyw@meaddata.COM writes:
>I think part of the difference in fear about violence between men and
>women is just a difference in attitude about getting hurt.  This is
>not a scientific survey, but men just seem to be more accepting of
>personal risk than women.

This is one hell of an assertion, but it makes more sense when taken in
context, and here your next paragraph is of assistance...

>When you look at things like skydiving, whitewater rafting, bungee
>jumping, sports you can get hurt playing, etc, men seem to be more
>tolerant of a given level of risk than women would be.  When you
>couple that attitude with a situation where there really is a
>difference in safety between men and women (walking in bad
>neighborhoods) you end up with a really big diffence in your perceived
>level of safety.

I'm not sure that making a comparison between the fear of injury from
sporting activities, and the fear of injury which results from acts of
violence is legitimate.  The two are conceptually miles apart.  Sporting
activities are undertaken willingly.  Violence is not very often the
result of a deliberate action by the victim.

>I think the issue that needs to be addressed is actual measurable
>differences in safety, not what peoples FEELINGs are.

Certainly, but the statistics on violence against women (in my country,
anyway) provide some justification (sadly) for women being fearful.

Dey
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
pol253b@monu1.cc.monash.edu.au
Politics Department,
Monash University - Melbourne, Australia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
Post articles to soc.feminism, or send email to feminism@ncar.ucar.edu.
Questions and comments should be sent to feminism-request@ncar.ucar.edu.  This
news group is moderated by several people, so please use the mail aliases. Your
article should be posted within several days.  Rejections notified by email.
From: banksie@khantazi.welly.gen.nz
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Women's and men's views of risk
Date: 8 Jan 1993 22:36:22 GMT
Organization: My Arc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: banks_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

turpin@cs.utexas.EDU (Russell Turpin) writes:
[lots deleted]
>                   ....A sprain or break or other injury does not
> hurt the less because nature rather than man caused it.  Of
> course, I think differently of the man who would do this, since
> unlike nature, he is a volitional being.  But how much does that
> change how one thinks of the activity that bears the risk or (in
> retrospect) of the damage one has suffered?

   I disagree with you on the scale of hurt. To me a sprain or break caused by
human would indeed hurt more. An accident caused by nature I know was
impersonal and merely either a result of a) my stupidity and can thus be
avoided or b) an event completely beyond my control and thus there is little
point in me being worried about *why* it hurt me. But a similar accident caused
*interntionally* be another human being would hurt much much more.

   Why? Well because I like to think I am a person whom people can easily
either get along with or tolerate. The fact that someone has deliberately
seeked *me* out and caused harm to me would make me wonder what I did wrong to
cause this. It matters little that the attack may have been random, I would
always have a nagging doubt that it was something *I* did that somehow caused
this.

   I don't beleive my view is common among men but I do believe, perhaps
wrongly, that it is common among women. (If some of our women readers could
confirm this please.) Thus the different views about risks, your attitude seems
to take harm as merely an event to overcome - mine is more a 'try to learn from
your mistakes to avoid being hurt' method. Accordingly I am far more cautious
about taking risks where I can be hurt, as I wish to avoid being hurt in the
first place.

    Philip

--
Philip R. Banks  Syntax: mail < banks_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz >            @@@@@/|
Captain Picard tensed as the Borg ship approached, they would have only @@@@/#|
one chance at this. Tensing he cried out "Fire at will!". Instantly     @@@/##|
Worf's hand leapt to his phaser and he beamed Wesley out of existance.  @@/---|
---Star Trek: The Way it Should Be. Part IV                             @/    |


-- 
Post articles to soc.feminism, or send email to feminism@ncar.ucar.edu.
Questions and comments should be sent to feminism-request@ncar.ucar.edu.  This
newsgroup is moderated by several people, so please use the mail aliases. Your
article should be posted within several days.  Rejections notified by email.
Xref: sparky soc.feminism:3166 news.answers:5062
From: "Henry (H.W.) Troup" <hwt@bnr.ca>
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Montreal Lesbian named as Rhodes scholar
Date: 7 Jan 1993 19:21:32 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

Under the headline "Scholar wants to reverse Rhodes Legacy", the
Montreal Gazette has a story on the front page on Carellin Brooks, one
of Canada's 11 Rhodes scholars this year.

Quotation:

Brooks, a McGill University student, said she's especially happy that
she won after applying as a lesbian candidate.

During the grueling interviewing process, someone at McGill suggested
that she remove the reference to her CKUT radio show Dykes on Mikes.

She didn't. "I wanted to move beyond 'It's OK to be a lesbian but don't
talk about it'," she said.

End quotation

Henry Troup - H.Troup@BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions
	       Legislated morality is the enemy of true morality


-- 
Post articles to soc.feminism, or send email to feminism@ncar.ucar.edu.
Questions and comments should be sent to feminism-request@ncar.ucar.edu.  This
newsgroup is moderated by several people, so please use the mail aliases. Your
article should be posted within several days.  Rejections notified by email.
From: bickis@skmath3.usask.ca ("M. Bickis")
Subject: Androgynous upbringing (WAS: The BEM Test)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada
Date: 12 Jan 93 21:30:41 GMT

In article <1idk2pINNf5j@agate.berkeley.edu> nelson@berlioz.nsc.com
 (Taed Nelson) writes:

>[The Bems] are even going so far as to raise their children
>androgynously (which lead to a lot of good stories due to interaction
>with other people -- I had one of them on rec.humor.funny a few years
>ago, and I reproduce it below).
                                    ...  For example, a frequent
>phrase was "the only difference between a male and female is that a
>male has a penis and a female has a vagina."  When the parents were
>asked whether a person that the child could see was male or female,
>they would reply (even if the parents could tell which it was), "I
>don't know, dear, they have pants on, so we can't see if they are
>male or female."

I think it is rather irresponsible for parents to tell such lies to
their children.  Obviously, since the parents *could* tell the
difference, there must be more to it than penis vs. vagina.  Why hide
it from their children?

>The little boy exclaims, "You _must_ be a girl; you're wearing
>barrettes."  But Bem replies, "I'm a boy; I have a penis and
>testicles.  Look -- I'll show you!"  At this point, the young Bem
>pulls down his pants to prove that he has a penis and testicles...

This is not a funny story, but a sad story.  Is this boy going to
spend life displaying his genitals as the only expression of
masculinity he knows?  Don't women felt threatened by such behaviour,
and aren't such people arrested as "flashers"?  And is he not going to
be satisfied about someone's gender identity until he succeeds in
getting her or his pants off?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>bickis@math.usask.ca<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mik Bickis       \,,,       .*#*.  \    University of Saskatchewan
Department of        \,,,  ^\\|//^  ```\   Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
Mathematics & Statistics \   )|(        ```\   Canada      S7N 0W0
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<S|A|S|K|A|T|C|H|E|W|A|N|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


--
Post articles to soc.feminism, or send email to feminism@ncar.ucar.edu.
Questions and comments should be sent to feminism-request@ncar.ucar.edu.  This
news group is moderated by several people, so please use the mail aliases. Your
article should be posted within several days.  Rejections notified by email.
From: jamie@cs.sfu.ca (Jamie Andrews)
Subject: Re: Boys Will Be Boys
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: CSS, Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: 6 Jan 93 20:09:54 GMT

In article <9301041902.AA10606@casey.net.com> heidi@casey.net.COM (Heidi Wolf) writes:
>For a scholarly treatment of this subject (how does our societal norm
>of predominantly-female caregivers affect the psychological development of
>children?), take a look at Dinnerstein's THE MERMAID AND THE MINOTAUR.
>It was published around 10 years ago but is still relevant.

     I must say that I find _The Mermaid and the Minotaur_ to be
not much more than a rehashing of all the old Freudian analyses
of male behaviour (Oedipus complex, etc.), only with a feminist
slant this time.  I think it's a little odd that this book
receives so much praise in feminist circles, where Freud's
theories of penis envy and incest fantasies are so disparaged.

     _Boys Will be Boys_ (Myriam Miedzin) concentrates more on
available data from sociological studies, and tries to explain
the influence of the entire society on boys' behaviour, rather
than concentrating on purely psychological theories of how
resentment and hatred are built up within the psyche of boys, as
Dinnerstein does.

--Jamie.
  jamie@cs.sfu.ca
"The Tao's net encompasses the whole universe."  - tao te ching

--
Post articles to soc.feminism, or send email to feminism@ncar.ucar.edu.
Questions and comments should be sent to feminism-request@ncar.ucar.edu.  This
news group is moderated by several people, so please use the mail aliases. Your
article should be posted within several days.  Rejections notified by email.
From: turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin)
Subject: Re: Effects of Porn at MIT (Re: Someone Convince Me)
Summary: Probably none.
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
Date: 12 Jan 93 22:49:51 GMT

-*----

In article <1iv5r8$a44@agate.berkeley.edu> kowan@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu (Rich Cowan) writes:
> It may well be true that individual male MIT students were
> only 2-4% more likely to commit date-rape after seeing several
> pornographic films, an increase that is "scientifically
> insignificant." ...

This is a common but mistaken understanding of what
"significance" means in scientific research.  Roughly speaking,
*any* difference -- 2% or .2% or even .000002% -- is sigificant
if it is beyond experimental error.  When a study reports that
the difference found was too small to be significant, it does
*not* mean that the difference was unimportant in some social
sense, but that the likely errors in the method or natural
variation in the samples are too large to draw any legitimate
conclusions.

Russell

--
Post articles to soc.feminism, or send email to feminism@ncar.ucar.edu.
Questions and comments should be sent to feminism-request@ncar.ucar.edu.  This
news group is moderated by several people, so please use the mail aliases. Your
article should be posted within several days.  Rejections notified by email.
From: pol253b@monu1.cc.monash.edu.au (Ms D Alexander)
Subject: Re: men crossing the street at night to avoid frightening women
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: Monash University, Australia.
Date: 4 Jan 93 21:45:31 GMT

In article <9212292355.AA02165@york.cs.ucla.edu> gds@ficus.cs.ucla.EDU (Greg Skinner) writes:

>Would you say that steps ought to be taken to empower women to defend
>themsleves against these men?  In other words, does avoiding
>frightening women really help them protect themselves?  If women are
>given (and take) the means to protect themselves, what purpose does
>the non-threatening men keeping a respectable distance serve?

Perhaps it will prevent them from having their heads blown off?  What
exactly do you mean by "means to protect themselves"?

Dey
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
pol253b@monu1.cc.monash.edu.au
Department of Politics
Monash University - Melbourne, Australia.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
Post articles to soc.feminism, or send email to feminism@ncar.ucar.edu.
Questions and comments should be sent to feminism-request@ncar.ucar.edu.  This
news group is moderated by several people, so please use the mail aliases. Your
article should be posted within several days.  Rejections notified by email.
From: mfterman@phoenix.princeton.EDU (Mutant for Hire)
Subject: Re: Mythopoetic ritual (a possibly Very Weird topic)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Reply-To: Mutant for Hire <mfterman@phoenix.princeton.EDU>
Organization: Mutant for Hire, Inc.
Date: 6 Jan 93 19:50:29 GMT

While I agree that just because another culture practices a certain
ritual does not mean that ritual has an intrinsic value and should be
adopted by our society, I do feel that the concepts of initiation
rituals should be looked into more deeply. The fact that so many
different cultures came up with this social ritual shows to me that
there is some sort of need being fufilled here. It is interesting to
note that many gangs have their own brands of initiation.

Women have a very visible transition from child to adult. Men lack
that sort of event, and need to create something to mark that sort of
change.

--
    Martin Terman, Mutant for Hire, Mean Ol' Top, Priest of Shub-Internet
    Disclaimer: Nobody else takes me seriously, why should you be the first?
mfterman@phoenix.princeton.edu mfterman@pucc.bitnet terman@pupgga.princeton.edu
"Sig quotes are like bumper stickers, only without the same sense of relevance"

--
Post articles to soc.feminism, or send email to feminism@ncar.ucar.edu.
Questions and comments should be sent to feminism-request@ncar.ucar.edu.  This
news group is moderated by several people, so please use the mail aliases. Your
article should be posted within several days.  Rejections notified by email.
From: era@ncar.ucar.edu (Ed Arnold)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Colorado Springs Extremists
Date: 7 Jan 1993 00:35:16 GMT
Organization: Nat'l Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR); Boulder, CO
Distribution: world
Reply-To: era@ncar.ucar.edu (Ed Arnold)
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

The Citizens' Project of Colorado Springs, a broad-based coalition of
concerned citizens formed in response to the passage of Amendments 1 and
2 in Colorado, has published their first newsletter.  This newsletter
details the concentrated power of the far-right in Colorado Springs;
some of this may be of concern to feminists.

Individuals interested in this may receive an ascii version of the newsletter
by emailing era@ncar.ucar.edu, or by anonymous ftp from

	csn.org:/Citizens_Project/9212newslet.txt
--
Ed Arnold * NCAR * POB 3000, Boulder, CO 80307-3000 * 303-497-1253(voice)
303-497-{1298,1137}(fax) * internet: era@ncar.ucar.edu * bitnet: era@ncario
compuserve: internet:era@ncar.ucar.edu


-- 
Post articles to soc.feminism, or send email to feminism@ncar.ucar.edu.
Questions and comments should be sent to feminism-request@ncar.ucar.edu.  This
newsgroup is moderated by several people, so please use the mail aliases. Your
article should be posted within several days.  Rejections notified by email.