From: frank@austin.ibm.com (F. Karner)
Subject: Re: THE MIND OF THE BIBLE BELIEVER
Originator: frank@karner.austin.ibm.com
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:00:22 GMT
Distribution: world,public
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstation Division
Keywords: Bible--psychology--fundamentalism


In article <1992Dec12.053417.15150@midway.uchicago.edu>, dsoconne@quads.uchicago.edu (Daniel S OConnell) writes:
> In article <1992Dec6.113418.19447@nmsu.edu> sdoe@nmsu.edu (Stephen Doe) writes:
> 
> A deconstruction:
> 
> Sociologists are often the last to know; remember they spend
> more time trying to explain, than predict. Your "geocentric model"
> quote is particularly suspect as we shall see below:
> 
> >Statistics on church membership indicated a continuing decline.  The
> >prevailing opinion was that religion served to explain the origins of
> >the universe, and one's relation to the universe.  As the more
> >competent natural sciences increased man's knowledge of the universe,
> >conventional religion became more and more irrelevant.  Unless
> 
> Once I see such (IMO) absurd generalizations as above, I tend
> not to follow the rest of the article, figuring there will be
> similar lapses in logic.
> 
> I would argue that anyone who opines that people join religious
> movements in order to "explain the origins of the universe"
> simply does not understand why people DO join religious
> movements.
> 
> In that case, it is no wonder such people are taken by surprise.
> 
> Dano

A deconstruction you say?  Absurd generalisations?  Lapses in logic?  
Pretty pompous and self-aggrandizing words...

I think it's you who is being dense.  What Stephen was trying to point
out is that the origins of religion were rooted in unexplained natural
phenomena, e.g., the caveman seeing in lightning the expression of ire
of the god of heaven, etc.  As man developed into a more sophisticated
being, the mythology became more complex and humanized, where appeasement
of the gods in terms of rituals, offerings, sacrifices were necessary in
order to seek or maintain good terms with those divine, if temperamental
creatures.  

Enter the priests, oracles, shamans, etc.  As the arbiters of rituals
and interpreters of the divine moods, this privileged caste became the
de-facto scientists of the day, not just because of their godly graces
and connections but because all the free time afforded by their social
parasitism allowed them to be the most educated.  They, as the ones that
followed in their footsteps, attributed natural occurrences
-unexplainable in the then available science- as acts or designs of
god.  Sound familiar?

Are you hiding your head in the sand, or do see the so-called
creationism science as more than a dabble in the origins of the universe?

The only difference between those much maligned pagan religions and more
modern ones, say christianity for example, is the DEFINITION of the
deity.  The great mythological civilisations humanized gods in order to
"understand them".  The breakthrough with the zoroastrians was to
reverse this concept, create a god that "understands us".  The rest, was a
natural progression.  Make this god the embodiment of all idealism: all
merciful, all knowing, all loving, all (insert a quality here and repeat
ad nauseaum).  So instead of creating gods in our own image, it was god
who created man in his own image.  See, given that premise of
omni-whatever, it couldn't have happened any other way!

But science and the understanding of the universe progresses inexorably,
at times in spite of religion.  Well why not, good science tends to
debunk religious myth.  People that obstinately cling to proven dogmatic
contradictions in the name of piety are either engaging in a form of
Pascal's wager (mostly hypocritically), or are just too dumb to know
better.

Do your words ring a little hollow?  Yeah, thought so.  Now go out and
be fruitful.  Educate yourself, don't just assimilate all the crap in the
"good book."
-- 

         DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed in this posting are mine
            solely and do not represent my employer in any way.
       F. A. Karner AIX Technical Support | karner@austin.vnet.ibm.com
Newsgroups: alt.atheism