From: sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley)
Subject: Re: An open question...
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 23:12:03 GMT

Young Jeff writes:

>Stephen Buckley writes:

>: Young Jeff writes:
>: 
>: >(Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary)
>: >Credulity: undue readiness of belief.
>: >Faith: firm belief in something for which there is no proof.
>: 
>: >Faith is a virtue in Christianity.  Faith requires credulity.  How can
>: >you deny it?  Will God condemn me to hell for lacking credulity?  
>: 
>:   belief in god is only undue for you because there is no proof in the
>: means you would accept.  i accept broader parameters.  it's not undue
>: for me.  

>Are my parameters unreasonably strict?  So far, I have heard that
>psychological crutches are valid evidence for God.  Is it unreasonable
>for me to reject this as compelling?  Is this the kind of parameter
>you are talking about?

  i believe you ought to have broader parameters.  i believe we miss
out on some of what is offered in life if we hold empirical proof to be 
our broadest standard of accepting relevant experience.  regarding the 
crutch, i do not offer it as valid evidence for god's existence.  the
healing and salvation knowable in jesus, offered by god is seen by many 
as wimping out and needing a crutch, but what's wrong in being fulfilled
in god?  who out there can show they have no crutches?  so since i'm not
offering god's healing, helping hand as proof of existence, i offer
it as something people should consider as relevant as it lives in the lives
of millions of christians and is available to fulfill the life of anyone
who turns to god in need of fulfillment.

>: don't stop forgetting that i spent a decade convinced it was
>: undue.  i didn't just wake up one morning feeling intellectually weak
>: and i just jumped at salvation.  it was a long arduous process of having
>: my incredulity appeased.  

>Does this mean that God answered your questions or that he just
>allowed you to ignore those nagging questions without feeling
>like you were committing intellectual suicide?

  no the questions were answered.  it would be really hard to ignore them
since i'm debating them on the net and in many private email conversations
with people who are also searching for convincing answers to the same
questions.

>: god can fulfill all incredulity: doubting
>: thomas is the prime example.  

>Thomas was appeased by sticking his hand in Jesus' wounds.  Will get
>such material evidence of his existance?

  [i'm assuming you meant 'will i get such...'] no i don't think jesus
will appear to you and let you stick your finger in his wounds.  though
i have no grounds for saying he necessarily won't.  :)  but i will
say that there is sufficient revelation in god's word and in the lives
of christians to make a reasonable person seriously consider that it
may be true [absolutely] and that it may work for them.

>: incredulity is fine because he can appease
>: any amount of it.  it is disbelieving people he will not take home with him.

>i.e. they are going to Hell to be tormented for the rest of eternity.
>Why Hell instead of some inferior consolation prize?  I have been
>prodding you for several posts to say the words, but you seem reluctant.
>Unbelievers are going to Hell.  Evidently this makes you uncomfortable
>or you would have responded.

  god originally told us not to eat of that one tree in eden, for if we
did we would surely die.  before then we were immortal [since the tree
of life was in the garden to be eaten of] and we walked in harmony
with god and nature.  to commit sin by disobeying god, the punishment is
death.  for god to be just, he'd have to enact punishment.  hell is the
realm of the dead; it's a place ruled by satan and the only lesser 
consolation prize i've found in life on earth without knowing god--and
i spent 25 years there and have no desire to find that place again. 
unbelievers are going to hell.  they do not accept god's offer of salvation
in jesus, thus they will not regain eternal life with god.  and it does
make me uncomfortable because it pains me.  it saddens me to an extreme
you may not be aware that people i dearly love don't know jesus.  one brother
of mine has had so many bad experiences at the hand of christians that he
has lost respect for jesus.  this is even more tragic because he's blaming
god for things people have unjustly done to him in god's name...so it's
not even him having a however-good-or-bad reason for disliking god, because
he's not even giving open-minded time to jesus.  that's sad.  it's also
not something i run around saying it because people start ignoring me
really fast when i quote doom and gloom prophecy at them.  i have no 
intention of hurting people, it keeps me from loving them.  but when asked
i'll answer whatever questions you have.

>: >: i spent 10 years exploring all sorts of alleged routes to god
>: >: before i spent a whole year examining what jesus offered me in terms
>: >: of salvation, personal healing and answering my metaphysical questions.
>: >: there has been no suicide in my intellect beyond dropping the intellectual
>: >: position that there can be no right answers--that philosophy was one of
>: >: the most empty ones i ever held before.
>: 
>: >What if I don't like the "right answers"?  For some Christians the
>: >"right answers" include patriarchy, misogyny, homophobia, creationism,
>: >etc., etc.  I would rather flounder in a sea of uncertainty than live
>: >in a castle built on a foundation of air.
>: 
>:   and those christians have no idea of jesus.  this is why i say if you
>: want to learn about jesus, read the bible and see where it justifies none
>: of the above.  i don't like those "right answers" either, that's why i
>: look to scripture for how jesus is and god wants me to live.  christians
>: perverting jesus message was enough to keep me from believing for 25 years
>: until i found out that they were all wrong and the authentic goods were
>: far more appealing, more than anything in this world.  

>Since we have started an email conversation on why I don't find the
>Bible inspiring, I won't repeat it here.  I look forward to our
>discussion.

  yeah.  but i'll still be responding if anyone has questions, problems
and disagreements with my beliefs; responding on the net or privately.


---                          
     Stephen Buckley        /    the meaning of life is the answer
     sbuckley@sfu.ca       /      to God's question in the Bible:
   TrueNorthStrong&Free   /        
      1-800-REALITY      /    "What are you going to do with my Son?"                   
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