HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1992 16:52:31 EDT
From:         -- <sipb7@ATHENA.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Progress
X-To:         DEAF LIST <DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
              30 Aug 92 04:03:24 -0400. <9208300803.AA17192@Athena.MIT.EDU>

    Miriam Clifford says, re my comment: "Let the flamer beware"

    But the message that got to me was, "my gosh, he's threatening us!"
    Shades of Nazi Germany.  Now we can't express an opinion about
    something (or even someone) without being threatened with violence?

Sorry for being cryptic.  Let me give an example...

Suppose I apply for work at another deaf school, and the people in
charge of hiring decisions have read my postings on DEAF-L.  They will
make a judgement about my personality and opinions from what I have
posted here, and this judgement may affect their decision whether or
not to hire me ... positively or negatively.

--
::: A fundamentalist preacher who can't read Hebrew deserves as much  :::
::: attention as a heart surgeon who has never handled a stethoscope. :::
seth gordon  <sipb7@athena.mit.edu>   . . . these opinions for rent
the learning center for deaf children . . . associate teacher-counselor
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:44:52 EDT
From:         Annie Senghas <annie@PSYCHE.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: cia and soapboxes

(Watch those header lines, folks!  And avoid reading posts on silly
topics like this one!)

Ok, so all this talk about soapboxes got me a little punchy.  The post
about government monitoring was *supposed* to sound a little exaggerated,
paranoid and manic.  That's the way the people on the soapboxes talk,
at least that's how the ones I hear in Harvard Square and in the subway
rant.

Nevertheless, I do believe that a certain amount of monitoring goes
on.  I am quite aware of the presence of military intelligence here
at MIT.  I don't obsess about it, but I know it's there.  I know
student's whose research requires security clearances, and I'm sure
all their email is monitored.  I know of people who have gotten
arrested for making drug deals over email.  I have friends who, as
communists, had their phones tapped, and network monitoring is far
easier than tapping phones.  And I have very close friends who have
requested government files under the Freedom of Information Act,
and received bulky folders full of pictures of them at anti-vietnam
war rallies and at small private gatherings where they had no idea
anyone there could have had a camera.

I spent three years doing Air-Force funded research getting computers
to distinguish between a "ba" sound and a "pa" sound (not an easy task,
for all us folks waiting for voice-to-text converters).  I knew the
wonderful uses for such tools for the deaf.  I also know that that is
not why the Air Force funds such research.
Frankly, I would not be surprised if I were monitored, since my
work with deaf kids in Nicaragua was in a Sandinista school.  Call
me paranoid.  I call it realistic.

okay, you can smash my soapbox and drag me away now!

Annie :*)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:02:56 BST
From:         Bosco Keown <KEOWN@WINVMC.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:      definition of a vowel

Bryce, and everyone else:


vowel n 1 any one of the human speech sounds
   in which the breath is let out without any
   stop or any closing of the air passage in
   the mouth or throat that can be heard: The
   simple vowel sounds of British English are
   represented in this dictionary by {/i:,{ I,
   { e,{ $,{ A:,{ Q,{ C:,{ U,{ u:,{ V,{ G:,{
   E/ 2 infml a letter used for representing
   any of these: The vowels in the English
   alphabet are a, e, i, o, u, and, sometimes,
    y -compare CONSONANT, DIPHTHONG
(c) Longman

Hope this helps.

Bosco.

John Bosco Keown,
IBM UK Laboratories, Ltd., Hursley Park, Winchester, England.,
Internet: keown@winvmc.vnet.ibm.com
BITNET  : KEOWN at VNET
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via: uk.ac.ulster.upvax; Thu, 3 Sep 1992 12:31:27 +0100
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 12:34:00 BST
From:         DDBT23@UPVAX.ULSTER.AC.UK
Subject:      email
X-To:         DEAF-L <DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU>

Tilak,

	Thanks for the contact. As for private email, I can't use the nsf
relay here because it's a restricted service, and sysops here are extremely
paranoid (won't let me use it at all :-()

	However, I tried yesterday to use an alternative relay (mhs-relay)
but my mail keeps on bouncing back. It says that your email address is an
unknown domain name. I have used this relay for internet mail before
(I am on the janet ring). Oh well.....

	I will try to route it some other way now. Let me know if it gets
through.

	BTW, deaf listers, forgive this rather useless message. I have no other
method of contacting tilak at the moment.

	Martin Powderly

	ddbt23@upvax.ulster.ac.uk

	"Like think it twice but never, never learn"
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:20:41 IST
From:         Lew Golan <LEW@TAUNIVM.BITNET>
Subject:      terminology

     The touchiness of some people about terminology reminds me about the
time Orson Welles was directing a movie in which his then-wife, Rita
Hayworth, was starring.
     As the camera was about to begin shooting under the hot lights on the
sound stage, the make-up man called out:
     "Hold it a minute until I fix this. Miss Hayworth is sweating."
     Welles whirled around and glared at the make-up man.
     "Hey, watch your language. Horses sweat. People perspire. Miss
Hayworth **glows**."
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Autoforwarded: false
Content-type: TEXT
Importance: normal
Priority: non-urgent
Sensitivity: Company-Confidential
UA-content-id: 1168DA900400
X-Hop-count: 1
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by mrgate.uwyo.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 10:43:00 MDT
From:         The Shadow <THESHADO@CORRAL.UWYO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Work Interaction
X-To:         DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU

> For compensation I am very much interested in chats via BBS's or
> PC to PC. In my case electronic(?) chats proved ideal to break
> the barrier. So I only hope usage of the electronic means will
> soon be widespread and become a way of life like DEAF-L among us. Do you
> think my expectation farfetched?
>
> Yong Che  <yckim@sorak.kaist.ac.kr>


Not farfetched at all.  Admittedly, I work in a university setting, but...
This entire campus -- every building, including the dorms, and almost every
room in every building -- is wired with an optical fiber network into our
local ethernet backbone.  This, coupled with a campus wide Novell network,
and a general usage machine available to anyone affiliated with the
university (this includes all of the higher education institutions in
Wyoming) can have an account on, makes is a virtual certainty that from
their place of work, most anyone here can talk electronically to most
anyone else, both on this campus and off.
So, you want to chat sometime?  :)


Kirk Haines
theshado@outlaw.uwyo.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sat, 29 Aug 1992 11:03:13 -0600
From:         /PN=BRENDA.L.MONENE/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@SPRINT.COM
Subject:      RE: Electronic communication
X-cc:         DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU,
              /PN=DCARA/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@sprint.com

 <"MGJC-5394-5068/36"*/PN=BRENDA.L.MONENE/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@sprint.c
 om>

Electronic ordering and communication to organizations and agencies of the
deaf is available now.  You could have made your order to DCARA, by sending
an Internet message to them on the Deaftek.USA network which resides on
SprintMail.  To send them a follow-up order or message, their address is:

/c=us/admd=telemail/o=deaftek/dd.un=dcara/@sprint.com

Deaftek.USA is comprised of organizations, agencies, individuals, schools,
university programs, professionals and service providers serving the deaf and
hard of hearing communities.  In the future, I suggest that whenever you have
to deal with any of the above mentioned...ask them for their Deaftek.USA
address and encourage them to put it in their advertisements and on their
business cards.  It can make your communication with them easier.

Brenda Monene
International Deaf/Tek, Inc.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Full-Name: Tilak Ratnanather
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 10:44:47 EDT
From:         "Tilak Ratnanather" <tratnana@EUREKA-GOLD.WBME.JHU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: ear tags/survey
X-To:         DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU

It would be rather simple to get the list of DEAF-L subscribers via
the REVIEW command and based on previous contibutions to DEAF-L to
check off against each subscriber whether he/she is deaf or hearing.

Well guys, I am back on line after my mailer fouled up two weeks ago.
Despite that I was able to read DEAF-L postings via the USENET service.

Tilak Ratnanather 	tratnana@eureka-gold.wbme.jhu.edu
Dept of Otolaryngology -- Head & Neck Surgery
The Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:13:32 BST
From:         Bosco Keown <KEOWN@WINVMC.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:      personal bio (revamped)
X-To:         DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU

Ref:  Martin Powderly's posting of Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:31:00 BST


>   An ultimate goal for this project would be the unaccompanied training
>of deaf speech without a speech therapist present, and thus we decided that
>an approach which would suit us was the display of a mid-sagittal section of
>the head (i.e. a vertical slice through the head sideways-on).

>   We are not sure where we should go from here, what other functions
>should be incorporated into the system, etc. Any ideas?

Completely eliminating a speech therapist appears to me to
be a potentially damaging development. No computer system will
be able to follow and point out all the nuances and defects of
human speech better than the trained ear and specialist knowledge
of a speech therapist.

How would you go about real-time display of a mid-sagittal slice?
That sounds incredibly ambitious, and would apparently require either
strategically-placed sensors/electrodes or the real-time equivalent
of a CAT scan. I hope your budget is big enough. :-)

Other areas to consider would be to separate the nasal from non-nasal
components of speech using only a single microphone rather than the
complex nasometer hardware currently employed. I tried doing this before
but gave up 'cos it was too hard to do, and I didn't have enough time
to tackle the problem head on. Have you looked at a PhD thesis by Jamie
Turnbull (Dundee University circa 1991)? You might find it interesting.

What you're doing sounds similar to products already on the market, such
as VisiSpeech, IBM's SpeechViewer, and some stuff from Kay Elemetrics. If
not, how does it differ?

Regards, Bosco.

John Bosco Keown,
IBM UK Laboratories, Ltd., Hursley Park, Winchester, England.,
Internet: keown@winvmc.vnet.ibm.com
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X-VMS-To: msuvx1::in%"deaf-l@siucvmb"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 16:31:00 CDT
From:         CONLEY%MSUVX2@MEMSTVX1.BITNET
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2908

        Hi gang; gotta question.?.?.

>[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

> -=> Quoting Ann Stalnaker to Hugues Blanchet <=-

>If there was a language that would show me new words that don;t exist
>in the english vocabulary (or french in my case), I would surely
>accept to learn it, whatever language it would be.  But why should I
>wan't to learn something I already have (a language) that would permir
>me to talk to a minority?  Should'nt it be up to them to adapt to a
>majority?

        I've heard this "word" thing mentioned several times on
        deaf-l and l-hcap.  Is it correct to compare an English word
        (for that matter, any language) to Sign "word"?
        From my understanding and ASL learning, these "words" really don't
        translate.  (hard to explain). For example:

                English:                ASL:
                  BIG          =         BIG, LARGE, HUGE, GARGANTUAN,
                                         MONSTROUS, FORMIDABLE, etc....
                (or even vice versa)

        Would it be more correct to say that ASL "words" are actually
        English phrases?

                                        Food for thought,
                                        Steve Conlee
                                        CONLEY@MEMSTVX1.MEMST.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 20:59:01 EDT
From:         "Dave Windley, Data Comm Specialist X799" <AADW@CATCC.BITNET>
Subject:      Anonymous titles

>      To those of you who are glad to see me back: thanks.
>      To those of you who aren't: that's life.
>
>      Many people have asked me about the title of my book. I think it's a
> great title -- but I can't post it.
>      The reason: a title cannot be copyrighted. This means that anybody
> could simply appropriate it before my book is published, and then it would
> look as though *I* copied it from *him*.
>      As for when it will hit the bookstores: it's in the hands of my agent
> in L.A. Now it's up to him to peddle it to a publisher.
>
> Lew Golan, Tel-Aviv University <lew@vm.tau.ac.il>

      Lew:

      Never thought about it from that angle.  Would you please let
      us know as soon as it is peddled?  I know quite a few people
      would like to get a copy.  Thanks.
======================================================================
   Dave Windley,                       Catonsville Community College
      Data Communications Specialist          800 South Rolling Road
      Sign Interpreter                     CATONSVILLE MD 21228-9987
      GLBO Co-Founder                          Voice: (410) 455-4799
      ITR Club Vice President                             AADW@CATCC
======================================================================
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 16:17:01 EDT
From:         Annie Senghas <annie@PSYCHE.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: tongue shape

In answer to Bryce's questions about vowels vs. consonants vs.
clicks...

Vowels are voicing produced by the larnx, with unobstructed
airflow.  The waveform is adjusted by the mouth, throat, tongue, etc.
That particular waveform is a vowel.

Consonants stop the airflow in some way.  Sometimes some airflow is
allowed to pass through, producing frication, as in s or z.  Sometimes
voicing accompanies the cessation of airflow, producing voiced
consonants, such as b or z.  So Z is a voiced fricative.  P is an
unvoiced stop.  B is a voiced stop.  S is an unvoiced fricative.  ALL
of them are consonants.

Clicks are sounds made in the speech apparatus without any airflow at
all.  There are no clicks in English, but some other languages have
them.  We use some click sounds, though, to signal to horses, or to
scold children (tsk, tsk).  There are several ways to produce
different clicks in the mouth and throat.  If you insert a click into
English speech, English listeners will (via other psychological
mechanisms) try to attribute the sound to something found in English,
and will mentally move the sound to an appropriate time in the
waveform, "hearing" it at a more natural point in the speech.

I worked for several years in a lab which studied the different
waveforms of different natural and artificial speech sounds.  A major
problem with using a waveform to identify sounds (especially
consonants) is that many of the variables are relative to other
variables, which are relative to each other.  So for example "speaking
rate" can determine whether a given sound is a "ba" or a "pa."  The
difference between b and p is a combo of the amount of prevoicing
before the release and the length of time of the airy burst which
follows the release.  (The voicing is most of it.  That is why a
whispered b is hard to tell from a whispered p.)  But these units of
time are relative to speaking rate.  So a certain sound may be
identified as a b when inserted in rapid speech, and p when inserted
into slow speech.  Now, to figure out speaking rate, you have to
count, somehow, the units of speech produced in a certain amount of
time.  But we need that rate info in order to identify the units of
speech, in order to count them... you see the problem.  And there are tons of
 other variables besides rate.

Not that we didn't make any progress...  :-)

I am a little curious about how one would go about modelling mouth
shape and tongue position, given only the speech sound.  As I learned
it, sound to mouth & tongue shape is a many-to-one relationship, and
there are an infinite number of mouth positions that could produce a
given vowel sound.

Hope this makes sense,

Annie
(annie@psyche.mit.edu)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:53:58 -0700
From:         Vicki Brown <vlb@MAGIC.AUX.APPLE.COM>
Subject:      Electronic communication
X-To:         DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu

> Yong Che  <yckim@sorak.kaist.ac.kr> said:
> For compensation I am very much interested in chats via BBS's or
> PC to PC. In my case electronic(?) chats proved ideal to break
> the barrier. So I only hope usage of the electronic means will
> soon be widespread and become a way of life like DEAF-L among us. Do you
> think my expectation farfetched?

Even more, I look forward to a day when *everyone* is connected by electronic
mail or "talk" programs on screen.

I just ordered some books and videotapes by telephone from the DCARA (Deaf
Counseling, Advocacy & Referral) bookstore in the SF Bay area.  Voice line.
The woman at the store has a (bear with me here Todd!) hearing impairment
(her words!! really!).  I got the order placed but there were a few snags.
There can be snags placing an order by telephone anywhere.
	"The order number is BPZG3."
	"Was that PBGZ3?"

I could have called in through the Relay Service, but then I'm still talking to
someone and there is more room for confusion using a go-between.
I can mail the order, but that takes longer (and in this case the order form
says to call for exact shipping and handling).
I could FAX it, but not everyone has FAX and the quality is not always good.
I so wish I could call up by computer and type a conversation.
Computer-screen characters don't depend on good handwriting skills.

I just get so used to sending Email to most of the people I know that I feel
like something is missing when I have to resort to other means such as
telephone.  I guess a lot of us are spoiled!

Vicki Brown
A/UX Development Group       Apple Computer, Inc., Cupertino, CA
Internet: vlb@apple.com	     AppleLink: VICKI.BROWN
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 14:59:47 EDT
From:         "Joseph P. Riolo" <riolo@COR4.PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: questions, a few, have i.
X-To:         DEAF LIST <DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@pucc.princeton.edu>
X-cc:         riolo@PICA.ARMY.MIL

Esther,

       Can you tell me which handshape is used for "Akron" and "sex"?

       I do not know the sign for "Akron" but I can guess that the
handshape for "Akron" is 'a'.  If I am correct, then, it is much
different from other handshape 'x' which I used for "sex".  The
start and end locations and movement for these two words are same,
though.

       Another thing to consider is that people in Akron may have
different sign or handshape for "sex".

                                        Joseph P. Riolo
                                        <riolo@pica.army.mil>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sat, 29 Aug 1992 06:08:47 EDT
From:         -- <sipb7@ATHENA.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Progress
X-To:         DEAF LIST <DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
              24 Aug 92 20:57:07 +0700. <9208241806.AA13706@Athena.MIT.EDU>

While exceptionally rude people on the net don't feel the threat of
physical violence, they should remember:

Many, many people read the net.

Someday, you may apply to one of them for a job.

Let the flamer beware.

--SG
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 18:04:00 EDT
From:         David James <ALAMA10@HUMAIN.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: D/deaf

Annie Senghas <annie@PSYCHE.MIT.EDU>:

  The Deaf/deaf distinction ...
                                                   ... matches similar
  distinctions made in other communities: the black/Black distinction,
  for example. ...

If you're talking about the term commonly used to refer to the
predominant ethnic group at Howard University, where I teach, the only
distinction between black and Black is that the latter is pretentious
and slightly ridiculous. (The pretentious who did not like being
slightly ridiculous, along with some others neither pretentious nor
ridiculous, switched to "African-American" some time ago.)

                                                          ... It is
  interesting to think about who decides what words should be
  capitalized in English.  It shows what cultures are recognized by
  whoever it is that makes that decision.

It's hard to see how the simple rules of English capitalization --
proper nouns, adjectives derived from them, certain titles, and the
first person singular pronoun are capitalized; other words, including
common nouns and common adjectives, are not except at the beginnings of
sentences or lines -- show _anything_ about what cultures are
recognized by whom, let alone heierarchy or honor (discussed later in
Ms. Sengas'post). This may be to the credit of the relatively elite
group who "makes that decision", or rather made it, a long time ago
(the rules were worked out by the editors of late 18th and early 19th
century printed media, partly in response to what their writers,
readers and publishers seemed to like), but it's probably just another
example of the limited productivity of conspiracy theories.

--David James
ALAMA10@HUMAIN.BITNET
DMJAMES@GALLUA.BITNET
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1992 03:54:32 -0400
From:         Miriam Clifford <DMIMI@ECSVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Progress

Cathy:

Don't fear to "label" your room, if you want to.  The kids will understand
your intent to make them, not inferior, but special and important and
visible and significant.  Could they help you choose the name?  Perhaps
an exercise in democracy.

By the way, I forgot to put my name on my previous message to Todd (should
arrive about the same time as this one), but I'll do it here.

dmimi@ecsvax.uncecs.edu  dmimi@ecsvax.bitnet
Miriam (Mimi) Clifford; 2535 Sevier St, Durham, NC 27705; 919-489-4821
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