From: hz225wu@unidui.uni-duisburg.de (Micaela Pantke)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Subject: Re: Types of Magic
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Date: 29 Dec 1992 10:20:13 +0100
Organization: University of Duisburg
Reply-To: hz225wu@unidui.UUCP (Micaela "Stayka" Pantke)
NNTP-Posting-Host: unidui.uni-duisburg.de
Keywords: Vitalist, Mentalist, Mix of ?ists, my Definition of Magic(k)

Hi there - Stayka is here!

First an apology for mixing together quotes from two of your postings,
Br'anArthur --- but due to the fact that I don't have Internet access
from home, I have to save all postings in the limited time I have at 
the university, and go through them at the computer at home until I come
back to the univerrsity and can post them there. Fortunately that gives
me the opportunity to check the texts with my dictionary. (If it works
is another matter completely...)

ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:

BA> (...)
BA> Mentalism deals with the use of personal mental energy (often perceived
BA> as an aura)--this includes basic psi, travelling/inner plane work, mind
BA> control, etc. 
BA> (...)
BA> Vitalism deals with tapping into vital force, which is often called chi. 
BA> It is the natural energy which everything which lives exudes.  Vitalism
BA> is the least specific magic, in a sense, because it deals in raw energy. 
BA> The typical ring dance to raise energy in Wicca is an obvious example of
BA> Vitalism. 

BA> Vitalism is represented in the Wizardry of the Earthsea series as 
BA> well as the Magecraft of Lackey's Valdemar books.  Lackey is a good 
BA> example since she also distinguishes between Mind-magic and Magery.  

Hm.  From your explanations concerning Mentalism and Vitalism I seem to
be a mixture of Mentalist and Vitalist.  On one hand I work on items
which seem to belong deceidedly to the Mentalism-Sphere, and on the
other hand I use to work with the universe's energies.  (I explicitely
did write 'universe' because in our circle (now I'm only referring to
the small circle of three with which we made the most interesting
experiments), we had Cajhain who was closely related to living things
(especially trees), and who raised her energies from that sphere, Kira
who also was closely related to the living nature (plants, but also the
Earth), and me who directly drew on the energies from the universe
around - be it moon, sun, stars or whatever.  I was also the one with
the most abstract images of the energies we worked with.) I wonder what
kind of ?-alist this makes me... 

BA> I don't consider religion to be the same as magic.  I do consider 
BA> some actions which are performed within a religious context to be 
BA> magic, but that is not the whole religion.  IMO, religion includes 
BA> lots of meaningful stuff which is not magic, and magic includes lots 
BA> of useful stuff which is not religion.  

I fully agree.  I like the way you put it in words...  I still wonder
what MY religion (?), philosophy (?) is about -- but a kind of magick I
do work nonetheless... 

BA> I hope this clarifies.  I posted my partial draft of my taxonomy
BA> of magic in this group several months ago, but recieved almost no
BA> feedback.  

Oh, I think that must have been before my time...  But now I'm here, and
now I'm curious, and now I want to learn!  I find your ideas most
interesting.  Keep 'em up. 

BA> Enjoy the journey!

I certainly do! 

BA>                      --Br'anArthur


And now let's come to the next one concerning the Types-of-Magic(k) item...

drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake) writes:

D> I'm not sure I understand the difference between life-force and mental
D> energy.  Could you give a few examples?  And what I refer to as Natural
D> Magick includes a bit more than communicating with natural entities; it
D> is primarily aimed at working with the five elements of the pentagram in
D> the "natural" world.

In my humble opinion life-force would be energy which is drawn to you
from other living things, be they animals, plants or men, be it given
willingly or unwillingly.  (Which would give my idea of 'black magick':
anything taken from or forced on unwilling participants, be they plants,
animals, men or whatever).  Mental energy would be energy contained
within yourself, or raised energy from one of the formerly named sources
which you incorporated for your own use and by that transformed to
mental energy.  In my case the energy of the universe (or of crystals
with whom I often work) on which I usually draw would become mental
energy as soon as I transform it and use it under my will (apologies to
all Thelemites...). 

(No sources existing, those are just my own thoughts...)

D> However, I think that in discussions like this, there cannot be one
D> "true and right way" to differentiate types of magic.  

How true! Please note that I also only state MY OPINION, derived from
MY OWN EXPERIENCES. There are as many different ways as there are 
different magick (or what else) workers and differents minds, and who
would like to limit the infinite universe to the extent of our limited
minds... 

D> What do you mean by magic?

I want to answer that question my way -- IN MY OPINION magic(k) is
something that science can't explain rationally AT THE MOMENT, and
something that moves something in the senses of the magic(k) worker and
co-workers, or in the senses of others sensitive to those phenomenons. 

I deliberately used lots of expressions that could say everything or 
nothing, because I would not want to limit an open word like magic(k)
by the confinements of our language(s).

I do know that my definition might offend others who tend to use a more
explicite definition (maybe especially concerning the partakers of
alt.magick?!), but I just had to throw my definition into the
discussion... 

As to religion... This word really is a problem for me. I use to call
the things I believe in a PHILOSOPHY, but I'm sure there are others 
who would call it a religion. I just don't know where to separate both
of them. (One wo/man's hobby is the other ones religion...)

D> I'm not sure that there IS anything outside of magic. <g>

Given my definition, I would concur... :-) 


All souls rejoice, my letter finally came to an end...

Walk in the Light!
                     Stayka deyAvemta

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Micaela "Stayka" Pantke  | 
Westhoffstrasse 111      |      "We live in a universe of magic!"  
W-4200 Oberhausen 11     |       (Ardra in ST:TNG, DEVIL'S DUE)
Germany                  | 
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