HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: time@coos.dartmouth.edu (Susan M. Kennedy)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: Cage flooring
Date: 29 Dec 92 14:45:55 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH


I use pure peat humus (no additives,ie perlite etc.) for my turtles. They love
it because they can dig down and half bury themselves.  We also use a black
plastic paint tray for water. It provides a built in ramp and with a grow light
over it it heats up to about 85F. They both spend long hours bathing and soaking
up the rays. Magellan and Myrtle have it made. Now if I could just figure out
what kind of turtle Magellan is I would be quite happy.  He's is farily plain in
color(tortoise brown shell, plates fairly smooth, olive head and limbs), about
7"in diam.; he has a hinge on bottom but does not seem to be able to close up
the way our box turtle. He also has a flatter shell than Myrtle and he's much
more active he'll circumnavigate the house in no time! Any guesses, the pet
store has no idea and I have not found him in any of the books I've checked.

Susan (smk@mac.dartmouth.edu)
From: mpease@dream.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Michael David Pease)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: Gratuitous Kills
Date: 26 Dec 92 12:43:15 EST
Organization: The Dreaming City BBS * (519)896-0863

On Sat 26-Dec-1992 12:35p, David P. Tracer Wrote:
DT> Smelling colors huh?

DT> I thought they outlawed that stuff back in '66!

DT> :-)

DT> Happy holidaze,
DT> David


            Smirk, Well, it was '68 to be exact, but I have kept a secret
  cache of it all these years, For occaisions like these :)....


     I know the idea sounds LUDICROUS, but and the main word here is BUT, 
 [Monty] My Python, will NOT take notice of any mouse save a WHITE mouse. He
 went without eating for 5 months, we must have given him 8 off-coloured mice
 and he would not even touch them. So we happened across a white mouse , He
 ate it up! Next day we bought another white mouse, He ate it instantly...And
 we have gone on successfully like that for the last 2 to 3 years. I can't 
 begin to explain why...but it works for me.

     I know that Royal [ball] Pythins are notoriously picky eaters, but I
 never thought that they would rather starve themselves then eat an off-colour
 mouse. Wierd.

--- Via UCI v1.16 (C-Net Amiga)

|-------mpease@dream.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca---------------------------------|
|                         |                                               |
| The Dreaming City BBS   |        ADULT/Fantasy Based Theme BBS          |
|    (519)-896-0863       |       WEll over 200 Megs of Adult Software    |
|______Mike Pease_________|_______________________________________________|
From: tracer@carson.u.washington.edu (David P. Tracer)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: Red Eyed Tree Frogs
Date: 2 Jan 93 01:49:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1i2sbpINNd2q
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

In article <1i0bv5INN7ul@pith.uoregon.edu> tenny@euclid.uucp (Nathan Tenny) writes:
>In article <simonb.725759377@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU> simonb@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Simon Blomberg) writes:
>>Forgive my ignorance, but _what_ are red-eyed tree frogs (Genus, species:
>
>The editorial column in _The Vivarium_ a few months back said that they used
>to be available cheaply and in large numbers, that no one did much work with
>them, and now they're "virtually unobtainable."  (Glades had a few of them
>for $85 each last month, though.)
>

I was in S.F. about a month ago and toodled down to the East Bay Vivarium
just to see if they had anything interesting.  I'm fairly certain they had
red-eyed tree frogs (though I didn't check price since I'm not an
"amphibian person").

-David
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: aad@siemens.com. (Anthony Datri)
Subject: Re: Gratuitous Kills
Keywords: This article printed on 100% recycled electrons
Organization: Siemens Corporate Research, Princeton (Plainsboro), NJ
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 00:55:36 GMT

>true with rabbits.) In our case, anyway, I'm pretty sure it's because
>white rabbits are rather hard to see against the white newspaper
>floor, and against the white wall behind the glass cage.

Any thoughts on the idea of sprinkling the food with food coloring to
aid detection?
--

======================================================================8--<
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: instruct@tigger.jvnc.net (Instructional Systems)
Subject: herpnet #
Originator: instruct@tigger.jvnc.net
Organization: JvNCnet
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:21:44 GMT

	For everyone who asked, the numbers for HERPNET are as follows:

	300 -- 2400 baud   1-215-464-3562
	9600 - 38400 baud  1-215-698-1905

	Sory, no internet access I'm aware of, but a source of a lot
	of good info both in on-line documents and questions answered
	by other callers.  They helped me a lot with a sick turtle, put me
	in touch w/ herp vets in my area as well as herp organizations, etc.
	215 is Eastern Pennsylvania, if you were wondering.

Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras)
Subject: Re: Gratuitous Kills
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 23:02:49 GMT

pholland@iastate.edu (Paul J Hollander) writes:

...regarding whether white mice smell funny

>I'm not sure whether vision or scent is involved.  That's why I'd like to see
>someone try feeding in darkness.  If there is still a preference, then 
>something more than vision is involved.

Well, I've fed snakes in the dark.  Sometimes a snake that won't feed well
during the day will take food at night.  I can't say that I was looking for 
this kind of info so I don't really remember whether white items got eaten
more readily when the lights were down.  I have definitely seen aversion to
white strains though, I though it was just my luck but it really caught
my attention when this thread popped up. 

>>Am I correct in thinking that white rodents are man-made strains?  

>IMHO, the original albino mice and rats were catured in the wild and bred,
>just like amelanistic corn snakes.  I've heard that white mice were being
>bred over 100 years ago, so I don't think they are proucts of human research 
>with mutagens or radiation, the way some more recently discovered mutants are.

This is what I meant, man made in the sense that toy poodles are man made.

>>If so, is it
>>possible that along withdifferent pigmentation they also smell different.  If you
>>want to hypothesize wildly, it may even be that snakes can actually detect the 
>>pigmentation in the rodents skin.

>Or possibly a minor change in the smell is another effect of albinism.  We
>know that it produces changes in the brain, as well as making the fur white.

Again, this is what I meant.  I know for sure that snakes sense of smell is so 
much better than ours and thier vision is nothing to brag about.  For people 
vision is the strongly dominant sense.  I suspect the world "looks" very 
different to animals which for which another sense is dominant.  It's very
hard for us to imagine what they "see" or "look for".  In any case it's
important when working with other species to try not to anthropomorphise
too much.

So, to summarize, I have no evidence for what I suggested and am not putting
it forth as a theory, never mind a fact.  WHat I am trying to do is point out
that the possibility exists that other species perceive the world differently
than we do, and may therefore know things we can't understand.  So what seems 
like arbitrary or contrary behavior to us may in fact be perfectly reasonable 
to the snake.

cheers,
gerard

>Paul Hollander    pholland@iastate.edu
>Behold the tortoise: he makes no progress unless he sticks his neck out.
From: larry@angel.UUCP (Larry Tenbush)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: For Sale
Date: 28 Dec 92 23:57:32 GMT
Organization: Angel's Retrreat, San Antonio TX



I am posting this for someone PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not reply to me.



His name is Randy Bryson.
His phone is 1-210-653-9301.

He is selling:

1 pr. Trans Pecos for $150.00

Cal Kings   each 4 feet long  $75.00 each
    2 Banded
    1 Stripped

1 Mexican Milk full grown $60.00

2 pair of breeding African Rock Pythons 12 feet long  $650.00 pair

1 pair of Mexican Rosy Boas  1 foot   $250.00 pair

1 pair of Yellow Anacondas  1 foot   $375.00 pair



Again PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not reply to me.

Thanks
Larry


-- 
WHOAMI: Larry "Bear" Tenbush 
  CITY: San Antonio, Texas  78230
 SMART: larry@angel.ucm.org
  BANG: ....!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!dptspd!ephsa.ucm.org!angel.ucm.org!larry
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri)
Subject: Re: The Makeup of A Snake's Housing...
Organization: Siemens Corporate Research, Princeton (Plainsboro), NJ
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 06:01:43 GMT


>I have a pegboard top on my gopher snake cage (29 gal. aquarium).  I
>simply have a 10 lb. weight on each end of it.  Thusfar, no problem with
>it (it's been 2 yrs. and counting).

If your gopher is like my Black Pine, she doesn't climb much anyway.  I've
got a Corn in a tank with a pegboard top, though, and am concerned that she'll
force her way under the unweighted edges.


-- 

======================================================================8--<
From: tracer@carson.u.washington.edu (David P. Tracer)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: The Makeup of A Snake's Housing...
Date: 31 Dec 1992 20:12:33 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

In article <1992Dec31.060143.8108@siemens.com> aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri) writes:
>
>If your gopher is like my Black Pine, she doesn't climb much anyway.  I've

Come to think of it, I don't know if I've ever seen my Gopher Snake climb!

Corns ARE climbers though, so your concern about the unweighted edges are
well-taken.  I'd just make sure to weight the top all around!  

Happy New Year!

-David


From: ruska@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Dave Ruska)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 19:07:42 GMT
Subject: Re: The Makeup of A Snake's Housing...
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp

In rec.pets.herp, pholland@iastate.edu (Paul J Hollander) writes:

> In article <1992Dec27.200038.26545@siemens.com> aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri) writes:
> >>Tell he seems to like it. But most of the Snake-enthusaists that I have met
> >>Seem to think that an Aquariums are poor and Cages are better... Is this
> >>  true?
> >
> >The usual concern is for ventilation.

If you have vents above both the cold end and the warm end of the cage you
can get decent air circulation from convection currents.

> 
> And heat loss; all the warm air goes stright up through those terrible nose
> abrading commercial screen wire tops.  

And heat loss OUT THE GLASS itself. I have a hard time keeping the air
in a 55 gallon tank above 73F when the house air is 68F (at night) without
turning the bottom of the tank into a frying pan. I even insulated the
back and sides of the tank with 1/2 inch of cork, and have a wood top with
about 15 sq. in. of vents.

Another problem with glass is condensation, although glass is much better 
than plastic in that regard.

> And snakes feel terribly exposed with all that glass putting them in plain 
> view.  But with a pegboard top, newspaper on the floor, a hiding box, and 
> cardboard around the back and sides, aquariums aren't too bad for snakes up 
> to around four feet long.

> 
> Aquariums larger than a 20 gallon long aquarium are getting too tall, too 
> narrow, and too breakable.  I don't know how the prices compare.  IMHO, if 
> you want a cage with more than 3 square feet of floor, you don't want an 
> aquarium.  You want a wooden or fiberglass cage.

The footprint of larger tanks are definately too narrow. The height is OK
if you need to provide some sort of climbing facilities.

I also would recommend wood cages, and line then with plastic bathroom panel.
You will get a cage that is easy to heat, and easy to clean. If you design
them with doors on the front they can become easily stackable. 

> Paul Hollander    pholland@iastate.edu
> Behold the tortoise: he makes no progress unless he sticks his neck out.
> 

Dave Ruska       daver@hpgrrd.gr.hp.com
Behold the rabbit:  ..... ah, never mind ....

Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri)
Subject: Re: The Makeup of A Snake's Housing...
Organization: Siemens Corporate Research, Princeton (Plainsboro), NJ
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 02:34:53 GMT

>Agreed. For anything that fits in a 55 gallon or smaller tank, an aquarium
>is the easiest solution (and possibly the cheapest if you include your time
>in building your own cage). For animals needing space larger than a 55
>gallon tank, it probably is best to custom build a wood cage. As mentioned
>by others, big tanks tend to be too skinny (front to back) and too high
>They are also hard to maintain decent air tempuratures at night.

I guess it's time to start buying woodworking tools -- I'm taking the Burmese
off the hands of the guy who posted a couple of weeks ago.  He's supposed to
be ~7ft now, living in a 55g.

>Unless you're a good wood worker, a glass aqaurium problably makes a
>better looking display setup.

There's an old console-type stereo in the attic where I'm living.  If  I can
verify that it's abandoned, I plan to convert it into a home for the Burmese
mentioned above.  Since it's stained wood, what concerns should I have?   Should
I sand off all the finish?

>A dozen aquariums, a bunch of cages, and a lot of mouths to feed....

Any advice on finding a rodent breeder?  I can't find anything in the local YP.

-- 

======================================================================8--<
From: tracer@carson.u.washington.edu (David P. Tracer)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: Gratuitous Kills
Date: 26 Dec 92 08:11:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Dec26.081105.6464
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <mpease.06mv@dream.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca> mpease@dream.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Michael David Pease) writes:
>
>    I would have to agree with your theory concerning The smell of the mouse
>  , My snake only eats WHITE mice...And I do not think that he [my snake]
>  has very good eye-sight.. I would have toi think that it is the sense of
>  smell...
>

Smelling colors huh?

I thought they outlawed that stuff back in '66!

:-)

Happy holidaze,
David
From: tracer@carson.u.washington.edu (David P. Tracer)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: The Makeup of A Snake's Housing...
Date: 30 Dec 1992 20:38:26 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

In article <1992Dec30.144749.28533@siemens.com> aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri) writes:
>
>I haven't come up with a good way of securing a pegboard top, though.

I have a pegboard top on my gopher snake cage (29 gal. aquarium).  I
simply have a 10 lb. weight on each end of it.  Thusfar, no problem with
it (it's been 2 yrs. and counting).

>
>>Another problem with glass is condensation, although glass is much better 
>>than plastic in that regard.
>
>I see that if I cover too much of the top *and* place the water dish above
>the UTH.
>

The condensation problem is only a "problem" if you don't want it.  I keep
mostly snakes of genus _Candoia_ which are from Pacific rainforests and
will usually not feed well UNLESS there is frequently condensation in
their cages (same for Chondropythons and some Blood Pythons).

Not only do I keep these snakes in aquaria but I also have 7/8 of the top
covered with plastic.  Of course, with a setup like this, I have to open
the top & air the cage(s) out completely at least twice a day and
frequently check for fungal growth.  It is also really importanmt to
remove fecal material asap since it is often the spawning ground for
fungal growth.  It's a little more work, but I simply could not keep these
species unless I provided this type of setup.

Of course my Burmese are in an 8'x3'x3' wooden enclosure.

So the punchline is: different snakes have different needs - find out what
they are, & cater to them.

-David

Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: tracer@carson.u.washington.edu (David P. Tracer)
Subject: Re: Gratuitous Kills
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:46:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.173642.21891@progress.com> gerard@progress.COM
(Gerard Bras) writes: 
>pholland@iastate.edu (Paul J Hollander) writes:
 > >
>>I don't know why, but I saw the same thing in my first Burmese python, a
>>rather picky feeder.  Give him a black rat, a hooded rat, and a white rat, 
>>and he'd take the black first, the hooded next, and then think about the 
>>white.  
>>I've seen this also,and not just in pythons.  I suspect srongly that snakes 
>can in fact tell the difference and that scent is the que.  They have an
>extremely >well developed olfactory sense... 

I used to have a miami-phase corn snake that also would not take pure
white mice - any other color was fine, as was white mottled with another
color.

I don't think one need assume that scent is the cue, even though snakes do
have a well-developed taste/smell sense (they're combined in the
Jacobson's organ in the roof of the mouth).  After all, they DO have color
vision as well.

-David
From: mpease@dream.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Michael David Pease)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: Gratuitous Kills
Date: 24 Dec 92 04:42:19 EST
Organization: The Dreaming City BBS * (519)896-0863

On Thu 24-Dec-1992  4:39a, Paul J Hollander Wrote:
PH>  I wonder if the snake would still differentiate between
PH> mice of different colors if the mice were dead and it was fed in a totally

PH> dark box.  Experiment.

PH> Paul Hollander    pholland@iastate.edu
PH> Behold the tortoise: he makes no progress unless he sticks his neck out.

    I would have to agree with your theory concerning The smell of the mouse
  , My snake only eats WHITE mice...And I do not think that he [my snake]
  has very good eye-sight.. I would have toi think that it is the sense of
  smell...

--- Via UCI v1.16 (C-Net Amiga)

|-------mpease@dream.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca---------------------------------|
|                         |                                               |
| The Dreaming City BBS   |        ADULT/Fantasy Based Theme BBS          |
|    (519)-896-0863       |       WEll over 200 Megs of Adult Software    |
|______Mike Pease_________|_______________________________________________|                                 
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: kilpat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Andrew Kilpatrick)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Wanted creature to add with fish
Date: 31 Dec 92 16:57:45 GMT
Reply-To: kilpat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Andrew Kilpatrick)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

Hi I have a 20gallon high aquarium with a bunch of various
sized fish.

I am getting bored of just having fish so I was thinking
of adding something else.  For instance I added an
"underwater frog".  He was gone the next morning, either
eaten or broke out.

Anyway, I am interested in ideas others may have of good
things to put in my tank.

Thanks,
Andrew
From: tracer@carson.u.washington.edu (David P. Tracer)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: The Makeup of A Snake's Housing...
Date: 2 Jan 93 01:53:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1i2shuINNd3u
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

In article <1993Jan1.022855.18225@siemens.com> aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri) writes:
>>Corns ARE climbers though, so your concern about the unweighted edges are
>>well-taken.  I'd just make sure to weight the top all around!  
>
>Which covers up the holes in the pegboard, though -- at least when using the
>traditional weights -- a dictionary and a CRC handbook.

Actually I use either standard "barbell weights" or in some cases, bricks.
 Neither of these covers any significant number of holes in the pegboard.


-David
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: aad@siemens.com. (Anthony Datri)
Subject: Re: Gratuitous Kills
Summary: I hope this works.  Cnews-perf inews appears to lose terribly.
Organization: Siemens Corp. Res., Inc.
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 00:03:59 GMT


>>      Anyone know why a full grown bullsnake might make a gratuitous kill?

My Black Pine, closely related, has been a problem feeder lately.  She's
been throwing up her food after a couple of days.

>This snake also had this thing about white mice, BTW. He just didn't want to 
>eat them. Has anybody got any idea why?

Hmmmm.  Said Black Pine had refused food for a couple of weeks, but a couple
of days ago eagerly took a mouse.  I hadn't realized until I read your post
that I'd been trying white mice; the mouse of a couple of days ago was black.

Of course, that didn't stop her from throwing it up this morning.  Sigh.  She's
very nervous -- the next time I feed her I'll throw a towel over the cage or
something.
--

======================================================================8--<
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: jgraham@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (the End)
Subject: Re: The Makeup of A Snake's Housing...
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 20:22:22 GMT


The best cages for the large snakes are those fashioned from the existing 
structure of your home, or "wall units" as previously mentioned.

Try converting a closet or storage area. 

Otherwize, look to large pieces of furniture, stereo cabinets, or grandma's
"breakfront".

Best of all, try to pick a roomate that will leave for the summer or live at 
his girlfriend's. You know what to do :)

PS. I can't see how a large boa or python could be confined to anything as 
small as an aquarium. It always suprises me that such small cages are 
frequently recomended in pet care books.

Bye now,

Jim
J. Graham
Biology and Chemistry Departments
Indiana University -Bloomington
.............."It is necessary to be slightly underemployed if
...........one is to do something really significant. " J. D. Watson..........
From: jhaines@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Jason Haines)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: breeder ?
Date: 28 Dec 92 08:01:54 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


	I spoke with a local vetrinary hospital that offers free
pet consuling info.  I was trying to get more info on monitor care
etc... including where to get one.   They gave me the name of a breeder
that they recommend for herpetological purchases.  I was wondering if anyone
had heard of or delt with this guy.  His name is Del Wiess and he is 
located in Carnegie, PA.  His phone number is (412) 279-6741.
	I spoke with him on the phone and he seemed professional enough
but I want to be sure.  I am still not very happy about the idea of
purchasing a monitor sight - unseen.

BTW - is 80 to 85 degrees F ok for a Mangrove monitor?  How about a
Savannah or a Water?  (that is the temp. my apartment has been at for the
last two months since I complained to my landlord that I had no heat 8-) )  


Jason R. Haines


Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: hibanez@wam.umd.edu (guzman)
Subject: Florida purchase
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: dc
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 16:37:19 GMT

hi..

I have been thinking of taking an order from one of the stores in
Florida (Glades?.. i forget) and was wondering if anyone is 
interested in going in with me to split the air cargo costs.

Glades deals with a large variety of herps and their prices are very
competitive (actually on the low end).  They send the herps via
overnight (same day?) plane and I/we pay for the delivery.

I forget what the box charges are ($50?) but if several people
went in and split the cost, the herps would be a big bargain.
Please write me directly at hibanez@wam.umd.edu  or call me
at home at (301) 474-4986.


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
lars		       hibanez@wam.umd.edu
UofMD at CP	       standard disclaimer
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp