HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Tuesday, 25 Aug 1992 23:10:56 EDT
From: Ryan Robbins <IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: ANSWER: RULEBOOK TRIVIA 17

LAST WEEK'S PLAY:

     On a 3-2 count the pitcher sends a fast ball high and tight to
     a right handed hitter. The batter attempts to get out of the
     way by turning counter clockwise. The ball strikes him in the
     hip as he loses his grip on the bat. The bat falls to the
     ground in front of the plate. You're the home plate umpire.
     What's the call?

     Similar play to last week's. Runners at corners. Grounder to
     short. The short stop flips to the second baseman for one out,
     and the second baseman throws to first. The batter-runner
     reaches out and "accidentally" knocks the ball off its path to
     the third baseman. The throw was wide toward the plate. What's
     the call?

THE CALL:

The batter in the first play is out on strikes. The intent of the
batter is not a factor in this play. A strike is defined in Rule
2.00 as a legal pitch which "Is struck at by the batter and is
missed." Even though the batter didn't intend to, he swung at the
pitch when he turned and lost control of his bat. Whether a batter
has swung or not is determined by whether the bat head broke the
parallel plane of the front of the plate. Despite what people have
argued for years, "breaking" of the wrists means nothing when
determining if a batter swung or not.

In the second play, the batter-runner is called out and the runner
from third is not allowed to score.

+===============================================================+
||   RYAN ROBBINS                    INTERNET:                 ||
||   UNIVERSITY OF MAINE             IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU   ||
+===============================================================+
From: gt4534b@prism.gatech.EDU (JARRIO,MARTIN MICHAEL)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Ugliest Man in Baseball??
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:40:23 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Sep1.221536.13661@menudo.uh.edu> chee1l5@jetson.uh.edu (Sam Lane) writes:
>Call it Willie McGee and Chris Sabo in a photo finish.
>
>Sam



No, no, no. I'm afraid you got it all wrong on this point:

Chis Sabo is not ugly, he's just *goofy* looking.

Marty

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dave@silver.sni.ca (Dave Till)
Subject: Re: DAVID CONE TO BLUE JAYS
Organization: Beldar, Prymaat, Connie and David, Inc.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 18:16:15 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.165952.7055@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>I don't think it's a particular good deal if the Jays can't sign Cone.  From
>the Mets standpoint, they get two good third basemen, so I suppose this means
>they won't sign Magadan.

Kent is actually a natural second baseman; he was moved
to third to fill in when Gruber got hurt and hurt and hurt and hurt.

This is a great trade for the Jays.  Kent wasn't in their long range plans,
since Alomar is their second baseman and Howard Battle, a 3B prospect,
is doing well in the Florida State League.  The player to be named later
is likely to be a minor league player (rumoured to be Ryan Thompson);
even if Sprague is the one to go, the Jays won't be hurt too badly, because
they have Borders and Delgado as well.

The Jays have more prospects than they can put on their protected list,
so trading a couple of them away won't hurt.  If they can't sign Cone,
they'll get a high draft pick for him, which allows them to re-build their
farm system.

I must confess to being a happy camper right now.

[BTW:  has anybody else noticed that the Jays and Oakland have more
free agents now than any other teams do?  Is this a coincidence, or
have they realized that they can wait until after the expansion draft to
re-sign their stars, and thus not have to protect them?  I've always
believed that Pat Gillick was smarter than anyone else out there, and
I wouldn't put this bit of reasoning past him.]
-- 
--Dave Till ("dave@silver.sni.ca", or try "dave@snitor.uucp"; as a last resort,
try "dwtill@watyew.waterloo.edu")  * My Canada includes the World Series. *
"Take it from me, a veteran.  The indicators of mental health in this country
are sleeping habits, hair length and beards." -- from *Whale Music*
From: gds@CS.UCLA.EDU (Greg Skinner)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Mets trade Cone
Date: 30 Aug 92 15:09:38 GMT
Reply-To: gds@CS.UCLA.EDU (Greg Skinner)
Organization: too funky

In article <$garyf.4.0@sasb.byu.edu> $garyf@sasb.byu.edu (Gary B. Fitzgerald) writes:
>Okay -- so what's the deal with the Mets throwing away their last bit of 
>remaining talent.  Cone has been traded to the Jays for a rookie third 
>baseman and a player to be named later.  Someone please help me understand 
>Mets management.

From an economical standpoint, it's quite viable; the Mets would have
to spend lots of $$$ to sign Cone.  The money they save on him can be
used to do other things.

From a "swapping players" standpoint, it depends on what time frame
you are looking at.  While Cone does have quite a lot of talent, he
alone cannot pitch the Mets into contention, let alone into
postseason.  They needed some defense, particularly up the middle.
Kent can play second, and he can hit.  Toronto needed a pitcher
immediately to help them down the stretch.  If they cannot sign Cone,
but he helps them into postseason, it will probably be a worthwhile
trade (for both sides).  If they cannot sign him, and he does not help
them into postseason, they have probably lost out on this deal.  There
is a good chance Cone will not help them into postseason; he's pitched
a lot of innings (and thrown a lot of pitches).  He may not have
enough gas to give them a quality start every time out.  He has not
had a good outing in his last few starts that I can recall.

Look at today's game with Milwaukee.  7 walks.  I forget the pitch
count, but it was up there (no thanks to Cito Gaston).  I'm not
convinced he will help them into postseason.

--gregbo
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Lies, Damn Lies, & Statistics (was Re: The Monthly Cecil Fielder Thread
Date: 3 Sep 92 00:04:53 GMT
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering

Thus spake psycho@brtpa25.bnr.ca (Paul Jezioranski):
>
>Why don't we bemoan all of those RBI that Lou Gehrig had. Hell, Babe Ruth was
>batting in front of him most of the time. Let's yank him from the Hall of 
>Fame.

I don't "bemoan" Gehrig's RBI totals; I do, however, ignore them except as
a curiosity.  They don't tell me anything useful about his (formidable)
batting skills; his individual numbers do that.

>Any statistic you can come up with is bound to be affected by countless "what
>ifs". Keep it simple. Games played, runs scored, hits, walks, RBI, etc. (i.e.
>the basics) 

The basics!?  Right.  Exactly what is "basic" about RBIs, except that it's a
stat you grew up with?

How about the *real* basics: plate appearances, hits, times reached base,
doubles, triples, HRs, stolen bases, caught stealing.  In other words, what
the individual player did with his chances.  You can't get any more basic
than that.  And that's all we use.  You're the one who keeps trying to smuggle
in these arcane teammate-dependent weirdo stats like "RBIs" into what should
be a very simple evaluation...

give a solid idea of hitting performance. Sure there may be some
>misleading info, but many of the other stats you can present can also be
>equally as misleading.

Care to give an example?


-- 
      David M. Tate      | From my dugout sleep I fell into the Game
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | And I crouched in the circle while my insides froze
 Randall 'Chico' Jarrell | One out from death, one hit from dreamt-of glory
"Death of a Pinch Hitter"| I woke to 'Strike One!' and the nightmare sliders...
From: pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Pirates Murder Dodgers 10-3
Date: 25 Aug 1992 23:16:25 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

The Pirates clobbered the Dodgers tonight 10-3 to tie the
season series at 4 games apiece.  Neither starter was
effective tonight, and errors did both of them in.

Martinez gave up a ton of hits and was victimized by errors
and he was chased before even finishing the third inning.
The Pirates had 5 runs at that point.  Danny Jackson was
almost as ineffective, failing to retire the first two
batters in each of the first 5 innings.  He gave up 5 hits
and 4 walks, but were it not for a key error by Lind in the
5th, he would have ended that inning leading 5-0.  But
after Lind's error preventing an almost sure double play,
the Dodgers plated 3 runs to get back into the game...
until Steve Wilson entered, that is.  Wilson was again
hit hard...getting to be a routine with him....giving
up a two run blast by Andy Van Slyke.  The Pirates added
an unearned run of Wilson and added two more in the ninth
off an ineffective Roger McDowell (gave up 3 straight singles
at the start of the inning).

Danny Cox was brilliant in relief of Jackson to pick up the
win.  Martinez got the loss for the Dodgers.
Tomorrow night features a rarity....two knuckleball pitchers
facing each other....hasn't happened in the NL since the
two Niekros.  I'm guessing the last time it happened is in
the AL, as I assume Candiotti may have faced Hough at some time
over there.  Anybody know for sure?
						BleedsDodgerBlue
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: All Right:  WHO IS JEFF KENT?
Keywords: Flabbergasted Mets' Fans Demand to Know
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:26:32 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Aug27.172554.3164@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> dick1@hera.uucp (25443-vaughn) writes:

>Well, who is he???

>And: is this all that a David Cone gets on the open market?

>Mets' fans stunned.

Why?  The Mets didn't *have* David Cone.  They had about 6 starts' 
worth of Cone.  Then he's a free agent.  

They can sign him again, can't they?  All they need is a dollar and
a dream...

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,local.general
From: thyat@sdf.lonestar.org (Tom Hyatt)
Subject: A's/Rangers Trade! 
Summary: Has Grieve lost his MIND????
Keywords: Canseco, Sierra, Witt, Russell
Organization: sdf Public Access UNIX, Dallas--unrestricted free shell access
Distribution: world 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 03:25:39 GMT


In what has to be the strangest and (IMO) most insane trade in Texas Rangers'
history, the Rangers have traded starting pitcher Bobby Witt, closing reliver
Jeff Russell, and outfielder Ruben Sierra to the Oakland A's for Jose Canseco.
 
Can anyone out there figure out what was going through George W. Bush's and
Tom Grieve's collective minds when this came down?  Sierra (a good hitter for
average and an average outfielder - all star player), Witt (decent middle-
rotation starter), and Jeff Russell (if he can get control, can be a dominating
closer) for a heavy lumber hitter who strikes out a lot.  I'm not one who
really likes the high-profile players of limited talent (yes, Canseco is of 
LIMITED talent) for three players who could have been central to the Rangers
winning a pennant. And I thought that the Vikings got the shaft with the 
Walker deal with the Cowboys....... Geez.


Tom H.


-- 
==========================================================================       Tom Hyatt                          | My disclaimer:  I am not affiliated        USENET: thyat@sdf.lonestar.org     | with any USENET sites, organizations       RIME:  -->LUNATIC (Tom Hyatt)      | or personnel. The views given by me        Prodigy: KKDH77A (quit yer laffin!)| are mine, and nobody else's.  Nyah!       ==========================================================================
-
---
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: wilbanks@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Dylan Wilbanks)
Subject: Denver Post calls for Rockies chair's head
Keywords: rockies
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 22:56:56 GMT


Woody paige of the Denver Post today called for the resignation of
Colorado Rockies chair John Annotucci, charging him with a serious 
conflict of interest in the Monus/Phar-Mor scandal. It seems that in 
order to get investors, he blackmailed them by threatening to pull their 
products from Phar-Mor shelves. The Rockies franchise is suddenly in jeopardy.

Or at least the management is. 




-- 
Dylan Wilbanks, Classics major, AND NOW Environmental Conservation!
Hobbes:"Why do we always play war and not peace?"|Currently at:
Calvin:"Too few role models."                    |Box 1143
Ren-n-Stimpy in '92! Vote for a real cartoon!    |Boulder, CO 80306
From: csquared@coos.dartmouth.edu (C Squared)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: The ECK blows one!
Date: 26 Aug 92 02:58:01 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Originator: csquared@coos.dartmouth.edu

And Jeff (Meatball) Reardon didn't.  With a man on second and 2 outs in the
bottom of the eighth, ECK came on to intentionally walk Boggs and then gave 
up a 2 run double to Billy Hatcher, giving the Sox a one run lead.  The A's
loaded the bases in the ninth but couldn't score.

C Squared
From: maceache@fox.nstn.ns.ca (Tim Maceachern)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Blue Jays - Cut in half
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:37:27 GMT
Organization: NSTN Network Operations Centre, Nova Scotia, Canada

mckinney@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Patrick Mckinney) writes:

>shorts, (I fear flames)  the following opinion is added...


>WE, THE FANS OF THE ORIOLES OF BALTIMORE, ARE WATCHING WHAT IS BEING
>KNOWN AS THE ANNUAL MIGRATION SOUTH OF THE BLUE JAYS. THEY ARE
>ABOUT TO LOSE POSSESSION OF FIRST PLACE; WHICH IS WHAT WE ARE NOW CALLING
>THE "CANADIAN CHOKE"....


>insert flames here......

Sure!

Lots of teams would dearly love to be in a pennant race ALL THE TIME as
Toronto has been in the last 7 or 8 years.  Whether you win or lose them
all doesn't matter so much.  Talk to a Cleveland fan...

Try comparing Toronto's total games played after being mathematically
eliminated from the pennant race over the last 5 years with any team in
either league.

Tim MacEachern
From: sckelm@iastate.edu (Steven C Kelm)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Minnesota and Free Agents
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:25:05 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA

Kirby Puckett has me worried.  It's not the fact that he might not sign, but
what if he DOES sign!  If MacPhail signs him to a multiyear contract, say 
5 or 6 years as speculated, a large part of the team salary will have been 
spent on an aging veteran.  Yes I know that he is having a great year this 
year, but can you really expect to see him in center in five years?  He could 
go to DH, but a mighty expensive DH he would be, and probably league average
over that span for a DH.  I would much rather see MacPhail go after Bonds 
or Sierra than Puckett.  However, would either be willing to play in Minnesota?
I have a feeling the answer to Bonds is no.  Are there any other quality 
outfielders out there?  Of course they need pitching, but that's another post.

Steve Kelm

P.S. If I hear another announcer praise the Twins for "putting the ball in 
play" one more time, I shall become violently ill.
From: ron@osf.org (Ron Birnbaum)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Clark traded from the Sox?
Date: 31 Aug 92 15:29:30 GMT
Organization: Open Software Foundation

In article <92243.003203IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ryan R Robbins) writes:
|> Contrary to rumors flying around about both Jack Clark and Jeff Reardon,
|> neither one of them has quit the team or been traded. Before the Red
|> Sox vs Angels game Friday night Reardon talked with Red Sox radio ann-
|> ouncers off the air. Reardon told them, as did Clark, that they were
|> only doing some housecleaning with their lockers. Since Clark lives
|> in California, he left early with some "junk" from his locker that
|> he took home. In fact, it was said that Reardon and Clark thought it
|> was funny the way people were reacting to their lockers being cleaned
|> out.

  Some people will believe anything! In fact, Reardon already knew he was
  going to Atlanta during the time of the above conversation.

-Ron


|> 
|> +===============================================================+
|> ||   RYAN ROBBINS                    INTERNET:                 ||
|> ||   UNIVERSITY OF MAINE             IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU   ||
|> +===============================================================+
From: z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: The Monthly Cecil Fielder Thread
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:54:02 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1992Sep02.190220.59560@watson.ibm.com>, mjones@fenway.aix.kingston.ibm.com (Mike Jones) writes:
> In article <1992Sep02.161808.27587@brtph560.bnr.ca> psycho@brtpa25.bnr.ca (Paul Jezioranski) writes:
>>Three anti-Fielders pummeling me at one time =8^) I'll respond to Ted,
>>since he's the guy I've been dealing with most....
>>
>>In article <1992Sep2.135350.13730@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>>thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
>>> In article <1992Sep02.131254.23869@brtph560.bnr.ca>
>>psycho@brtpa25.bnr.ca (Paul Jezioranski) writes: 
>> >
>>> >	1) You indicate each performers RBI vs. RISP, but there's no 
>>> >	   quantification of the pitching quality. How do I know that the
>>> >	   avg. ERA of the pitchers Fielder faced in these situations wasn't
>>> >	   a half point lower than those Canseco faced.
>>> 
>>> How do we know it's not a half point higher?  
>>
>>	Exactly my point; we dont know, and it's pertinent info. We can't 
>>	just "assume" the ERA difference is negligible like one fellow suggested
>>	anymore than we can conclude that with 700 ML ball players, the 
>>	difference between seventh best and best is negligible.
> 
> Au contraire; logic compels us to assume that they faced roughly the same
> set of pitcher UNLESS there's some reason to suspect that they didn't.
> Unless you're looking at platoon or serious situation players (i.e., guys
> who accumulate most of their AB's as pinch hitters late in games), it seems
> pretty obvious that hitters in a league face about the same mix of pitchers.
> In fact, if you don't accept this assumption, you basically claim that all
> offensive statistics are useless without serious amounts of controlling for
> pitchers faced. Are you really claiming this? Is there any reason to think
> that Fielder faced a significantly different set of pitchers than other
> sluggers in the league?

	Actually, Fielder doesn't get to face the Tiger's staff, one of the
worst in baseball :-). In general though, regular batters will face the same
pitching throughout the season.

  
>>> It's winning games that counts -- and in terms of winning games, 
>>> Fielder wasn't even the most valuable player on his team, much less the AL.
>>

	I doubt that Hank Aaron, Ted Williams, etc. in his prime could help 
the Tigers, with their pitching staff. One batter can't make up for a pitching
staff that gives up 4.5+ runs a game. Even several batters would be hard
pressed to do so :-).

Brandon

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Gold Glove at short (was Re: simulation games)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 17:55:38 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.152943.7369@trentu.ca> pyacm@trentu.ca (A Colin Morton) writes:

>Manny Lee, the most underrated shortstop in the game?
>
>Just a thought to "spur conversation", as it were.
>
>Leaving the flames to others,

More like, the most overrated shortstop because he's called underrated?

Lee, after a hot start, has returned to earth, and is once again a below-
average shortstop.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu (Harold_Brooks)
Subject: Re: CUB'S MADDUX EASY CHOICE FOR CY
Organization: NSSL
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 21:22:19 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.202702.14944@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson) writes:
>In article <Graham_Sloan.07ri@abcd.Houghton.MI.US> Graham_Sloan@abcd.Houghton.MI.US (Graham Sloan) writes:
>>I completely agree with you. One need only look at the numbers.
>
>NUMBERS-SCHMUMBERS
>
>The reason Maddux has such a low era and low opp. batt avg is cause he pitches
>in the NL Least. If Glavine had that kind of opposition (remember, the pirates
>least leaders, would be lucky to be second in the west, and would be fourth
>potentially) he'd have Madduxe's numbers.

Through the games of 1 September, the National League East is winning the 
season series with the National League West (1 game over .500).  At this point 
in the season, NL teams have played more games outside of their division than 
within the division.  So, if you want to claim that Maddux has racked up his 
numbers against the inferior opposition from the National League West you 
can, but I think you're stretching things to claim that the West is that 
much worse than the East.  If your claiming that he's racked up his numbers
against inferior opposition from the East, then you're simply wrong since
the East is not inferior and since most of his games have been against the
Western Division.

Harold
-- 
Harold Brooks                    hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu
National Severe Storms Laboratory/CIMMS (Norman, OK)
Andres Galarraga (Through 1 September)  .239 BA  .374 SLG  .277 OBA
28 H from .300  5 H from .250  8 HBP  9 BB    
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rising@zoo.toronto.edu (Jim Rising)
Subject: Cone Trade
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:28:00 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

As others have now posted, the PTBNL is not now in the majors, and
is widely rumored to be Ryan Thompson, an outfielder with some power,
and some speed, but to my knowledge not a great prospect (Jays have 
much better outfield prospects in the lower minors).  Kent is really
a 2B not 3B man, and not very good defensively at either, though apparently
better at 2B.  Sprague (I hope they don't pull the shell game and send
him to the Mets after the season), is not a good fielder; I think that
the Jays see him as a DH (the guy has a good bat!) to replace Winfleid, and
a back up catcher, 1B, OF, and pinch hitter.  [When I heard the Kent +
Sprague rumor I first thought, 'Just what the Mets need:  two more 
reasonably good hitters who cannot field!']   The Jays catching prospects
are Delgado and Knorr.

Gillick said that he'll not talk to Cone about resigning until after
the season--he has 8 free agents to deal with and is not going to start
talking to one, and not the others.  He also said that they did not
intend at this time to change their policy of signing players for a 
max of 3 years, and if that is so, I don't think that they'll sign
Cone.  Rumor has it that Cone wants 5 years, and 27M$; Cone says that
he has not floated any specific deals.  Frankly if I were Gillick I'd
argue with him, but in the end give him that contract.  But I'm
not Gillick.   I would not have given that sort of deal to Candiotti
or Bud Black, but I sure would to Cone.  I wouldn't give half of that
to Boggs.  The Jays already have two good leadoff hitters, the better
of whom bats second, and the other bats fifth. 

Gillick says that they made the trade to get to the playoffs, and I
for one think that that is a good reason, and they paid a price they
could afford to pay.  They gave up two guys who they might have to
give to the Marlins or Rockeys anyway, don't forget.  They gave up 
two guys who doubtless would never be more than back-ups on the club.

Joe, are you alright down there in Miami, what with Andrew and all?
-- 
Name:     Jim Rising
Mail:     Dept. Zoology, Univ. Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada    M5S 1A1
UUCP:     uunet!attcan!utzoo!rising 
BITNET:   rising@zoo.utoronto.ca
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball