From: furballs@sequent.com (Paul Penrod)
Subject: Re: FCC will proclaim Microsoft is run by Communists! :)
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 93 21:47:11 GMT

In article <1993Jan2.162835.7330@frog.CRDS.COM> rmk@frog.CRDS.COM (Rick Kelly) writes:
>In article <1992Dec29.090517.3117@sequent.com> furballs@sequent.com (Paul Penrod) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec27.214322.10985@frog.CRDS.COM> rmk@frog.CRDS.COM (Rick Kelly) writes:
>>>In article <1992Dec22.202026.13677@sequent.com> furballs@sequent.com (Paul Penrod) writes:
>>>>In article <1h7gj1INNitc@cae.cad.gatech.edu> chris@cad.gatech.edu (Chris McClellen) writes:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>[ stuff deleted ]
>>>>
>>>>>If they DO get broken up, there are other software companies out there.
>>>>>Hell, UNIX may gain some more ground if it happens.  For now,
>>>>>sticking with OS/2 and Unix hasn't hurt me, and probably won't.  If
>>>>>MS DOES break up, some of the smaller companies may have room to
>>>>>grow.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Unfortunately UNIX isn't going to gain any ground. NOvel announced
>>>>that will buy Unix Systems Laboratory for $335 million in stock.
>>>>"This aquisition is being done at the urging of customers who have
>>>>asked us to support the Unix system directly and integrate it fully
>>>>within the Netware environment," says Raymond Noorda, Novell's CEO.
>>>>(Reference - PRODIGY interactive personal service).
>>>>
>>>>If you read this statement carefully, you will notice that Ray
>>>>wants to absorb UNIX into Netware, not the other way around. If
>>>>this actually comes about, one of the last of the good OS
>>>>environments will bite the dust; all because he has a hard on for
>>>>Bill Gates.
>>>>
>>>>The prize that comes with Unix Systems Laboratory is AT&T copyright
>>>>to UNIX. Oh well, I've seen good things raped and plundered before;
>>>>just never thought UNIX would be one of them.
>>>
>>>This would be true if AT&T was the sole supplier of UNIX.  USL makes the
>>>main bulk of it's money selling source licenses to vars and collecting
>>>royalties from them.  They also have ongoing bug fix programs that cost
>>>money for var participation, and all the source packages that they sell
>>>through the AT&T Toolchest.
>>>
>>>There are probably 30+ vendors of UNIX for Intel boxes, and more for other
>>>hardware platforms.  The customers who want Novell integration for UNIX will
>>>be the ones who will buy UNIXWARE from Novell.  These are mostly customers
>>>who have large MSDOS and Windows 3.x networks.  OS/2 is already showing that
>>>it can neatly integrate itself into UNIX and TCP/IP networks.
>>
>>Are you sure of this ? According to one of those vendors I speak
>>with regularlly, USL has much more control over UNIX than you
>>imply. Of course you can have SYS 7 from Mark Williams, or SOLARIS
>>from SUN, or NextStep, or (fill in the blank). But it is my
>>understanding that the core UNIX product centers around 2 sources:
>>AT&T and their System V releases, and Berkley with their 4.x
>>versions. It is also my understanding the Berkley is dropping their
>>version of UNIX due in part to legal pressure asserted by USL and
>>others over copyright infringment. Novell is no shrinking violet
>>either in legal battles. I would suspect their would continue the
>>legal battle just to make a buck at Berkley's expense.
>
>Of course USL has ultimate control over the System V sources, however,
>they only make a small part of their profits from selling binary releases
>of UNIX.  When you buy a System V source license, you get the whole ball
>of wax.  For every binary package that you sell, USL gets money in the form
>of royalties.  You also pay big dollars to get involved with the UNIX bugs
>data base at USL.  I have seen both R3 and R4 sources, so I know what's in
>there.  Dell and other vendors have fixed all kinds of bugs in the Intel
>based UNIX sources, and these fixes have been pulled back into the source
>tree.  Even Sun and NeXT have UNIX licenses.  And DEC.  And HP.  And OSF....

True. I also suspect, given Novell's history and high NIH factor
that many bug fixes in the future will be rejected from the
outside, since a Novell engineer didn't write it. Noorda has a
penchant for absolute control that strangles creativity. Netware
lite is a perfect example. Lantastic is killing it in the market
place because Novell can't admit to the fact that outsider have
better ideas and work with them; plus the fact they rape the
public on service. This is what happens when you get to be the most
dominate thing in the PC market. Arrogance precedes the fall. On
Microsoft's side of things, they have not yet reached that  point,
but there is not a Lantasic out there to humble them either; just
the FTC and alot of whining competitors.

>
>The UNIX world is huge, and it comprises a lot more than Intel Hardware
>platforms.
>

That's also true, unfortunately for UNIX there are about 120
million iNTEL boxes out there vs alot fewer UNIX specific boxes.
It's a really big brass ring to the company who can grab hold of
it.

>>Those who can do. Those who can't, litigate...
>
>Yes, the BSDI/Berkeley suit sucks.


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
            Bureaucracy: noun, plural - Bureaucracies.
         The process of turning energy into solid waste.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy