HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU ("Bill Harrison (713)-743-2789")
Subject: Re: Abuse A Brit (was Re: Pardon my ignorance and such)
Reply-To: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:58:51 GMT

 [stuff deleted]
>
>Can anyone think of a derogatory term used by other nations (that the
>British can understand to be insulted by it), to refer to the British
                                                               ^^^^^^^
>(or in my case the English)?
>
>I don't mean things like 'Limey' or (from a Scot) 'Englishman' :-)
>
>   Alan
>

My American room-mate came up with a gem, after I explained the concept
of rhyming-slang to him (somebody else can define rhyming-slang to those 
unfamiliar with it). 

...Why say Brit when you can say "Saggy T*t"...

(sorry for any sexist connotations, but it's a good one).

Stay loose,
Bill (the Brit)

+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\               /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Bill Harrison,            \             /       "Be as radical as... |
| University of Houston, TX  >-----------<         reality itself"     |
| CHEM91@JETSON.BITNET      /             \                V. I. Lenin |
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/               \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic
From: ag129@cus.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant)
Subject: Re: Getting some intelligent discussion going.
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 12:29:44 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.213448.21689@philmtl.philips.ca> ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes:
>In referenced article, newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton) writes:
>>ag129@cus.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant) writes:
>>>Let's have a Scottish group, and keep Celtic racialism out of it.
>>>I mean, I don't even know whether I'm 0% or 100% Celtic, and I don't care!
>>
>>Being Celtic is *not* a racial priviledge, it is a cultural and linguistic
>>milieau, and a matter of degree.
>
>No need to be pedantic about the use of the term "racialism", Alasdair was
>alluding to the N.Ireland wars that frequently flare up in this newsgoup.

I simply meant the idea that being Irish, Scottish or Welsh is a matter
of genetics. On the one hand we have people telling us that Ireland is
a Celtic country, on the other they say that Celtic people have certain
kinds of skin/hair colour. Then you combine the two things.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
From: jchokey@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Alexander Chokey)
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 17:42:07 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.070708.11757@rdg.dec.com> cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn) writes:
>
>In article <1992Sep29.112614.3849@darwin.ntu.edu.au>, salter_duke@darwin.ntu.edu.au writes...
>>I've just read in my "Grauniad Weekly" that all British school-children
>>are going to have a compulsory test on a Shakespeare play at the age of 14.
>> 
>>Is this really true, or is it just a pinko-liberal rumour spread by the
>>"Gradiron" to convince the rest of the world that the Tories have gone
>>stark staring bonkers?
>> 
>Well if the Scots have to learn about the Bard of England, then I hope
>the English have to learn Robert Burns too, the national Bard of Scotland.
	

	I've always thought that the true bard of Scotland was Ossian.  ;-)



	--  Jim C. <jchokey@leland.stanford.edu>
From: dbrooks@penge.osf.org (David Brooks)
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Organization: Open Software Foundation
	<1992Sep30.122234.5049@epas.toronto.edu>
	<1992Sep30.162336.20876@cas.org> <1992Sep30.170016.20950@osf.org>
	<qh3pk9g@zola.esd.sgi.com>
Date: 1 Oct 92 00:11:18

livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
| In article <1992Sep30.170016.20950@osf.org>, dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks) writes:
| |> In article <1992Sep30.162336.20876@cas.org>, jac54@cas.org () writes:
| |> |> 	I take my cue from Vera Brittain's daughter's response
| |> |> 	when TBW observed that children were leaving secondary
| |> |> 	school unable to read or write.  She observed that all
| |> |> 	children are supposed to be able to read and write when they
| |> |> 	finish primary school.  (Guess who would have been Ministrix
| |> |> 	for Education at the appropriate time.)
| |> 
| |> How about Shirley Williams?
| 
| You have to give them this: the comprehensive system
| *did* bring every pupil to the same level.

I think maybe these references should be elucidated for the benefit of the
younger readers -- Lawrence, for example.

Vera Brittain's daughter is Shirley Williams.  She was, I believe, Minister
of Education in Harold Wilson's Labour government, which set about the most
sweeping reform of British education for decades.  The idea was to end
selection of pupils for the different levels of state school according to
academic ability, and was seen by many (including Jon, apparently) as
resulting in dragging people down to the lowest common denominator.  The
primary impulse seemed to be ideological rather than educational (not
necessarily implying that they clashed).

Americans may have trouble understanding such a radical, leftist idea: that
a single state-supported school should educate *all* the children from a
given locality (except those who paid for a private education), and even be
forced to be co-educational, if you can imagine.

Shirl now lives on Memorial Drive, right here in Cambridge, Mass., and
spends her time running around the world telling other countries how they
should arrange their affairs.  Just like Maggie, actually.
--
David Brooks					dbrooks@osf.org
Open Software Foundation			uunet!osf.org!dbrooks
Four more months!  Four more months!
From: metceram@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Abuse A Brit
Keywords: what's that smell?
Date: 30 Sep 92 05:04:56 GMT
Reply-To: slking@epx.cis.umn.edu
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1992Sep29.175415.7761@rz-berlin.mpg.de>, gray@rz-berlin.mpg.de writes:
> In article <1992Sep28.181734.4500@bnr.uk>,
> agc@bmdhh298.bnr.ca (Alan Carter) writes:
>  
>> Can anyone think of a derogatory term used by other nations (that the
>> British can understand to be insulted by it), to refer to the British
>> (or in my case the English)?
> 
>   Various colonials and continentals of my acquaintance have employed
> the following poor attempts at construction of a derogatory noun for the
> British and/or their demesne:
> 
>   Wingeing Poms

It's very old, but there may be some (well, one anyway) out there who
haven't heard it...
Here goes:
How do you grow your own dope?
PLANT A POM !

There are also numerous, longer jokes about poms being unwashed (an Aussie
impression of the english (as oppose to British)) which I can't be
bothered to post at 1200 baud {sighs of relief}

It's not my fault that our boiler blew up last Friday (no joke in Minneapolis,
I can tell you)!!

Simon
<AARGH - get that rat out of here...>


>   Das Land ohne Musik
>   Les hooligans
> 
>   but we all know that Britain simply *is* better, so there's no need to
> worry that they are serious.
> 
> 
> Struan
From: martin.baines@uk.sun.com (Martin Baines - Sun UK - SE Manager Cambridge)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Currency Problems
Date: 2 Oct 1992 10:57:01 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Ltd
Distribution: world
Reply-To: martin.baines@uk.sun.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: bottomdog.uk.sun.com

In article 12348@dcs.qmw.ac.uk, mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
>From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
>>National security?   Jeepers, kid, we're talking about using
>>foreign coal when it's cheap, not digging up the British stuff
>>and tossing it into the sea.
>>
>>If you really think that British coal is so wonderful, then
>>leave the stuff in the ground.   It's not going to go bad, and
>>if the Victorians could get at it with their technology, I'm
>>sure our grandchildren will be able to.
>
>Unfortunately it is not as simple as this. It has been made
>quite clear that if mines are not maintained they flood or are
>damaged in other ways that make them unuseable.
>
>You also seem, like many free marketeers, to be ignoring the
>time drag factor. If it once again became beneficial or
>necessary to use British coal, a coal industry could not be
>rebuilt from scratch.

Why not? As I pointed out in a previous post, if demand were
there due to the free market price of coal rising the UK
coal industry could easily expand. It wouldn't be a case
of overnight suddenly trying to open all the old deep mines,
first lower cost *new* seams would be opened (British Coal
still actually do this) probably open cast first, then
new shallow deep mines. If British industry didn't do this,
and it were profitable, someone else would.

Industries *can* come back: look at the British car industry,
from a low point in 1989 it is now expanding again, to the
level that by 2000 Britain will probably be the largest
car exporter in Europe again. It makes little difference
to the British economy that this time much of the investment
came from Japan rather than the USA: Nissan is no more nor
less foreign than Ford or GM.

Martin


---
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You might say that, but I couldn't possibly comment"

Martin Baines, Sales Support Manager,
Sun Microsystems Ltd, 306 Science Park, Cambridge, CB4 4WG, UK
Phone: +44 223 420421                 Fax: +44 223 420257
JANET:     Martin.Baines@uk.co.sun    Other UK:  Martin.Baines@sun.co.uk
Internet:  Martin.Baines@UK.sun.com
X.400:     g=martin s=baines prmd=sunir admd=mci c=us
From: h.jonkers@et.tudelft.nl (Henk Jonkers)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Accents (was Re: Abuse a Brit)
Date: 2 Oct 92 17:54:39 GMT
Organization: Delft University of Technology, Dept. of Electrical Engineering

v064myby@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Christophe J Quaranta) writes:

>	Yes, friends, no doubt about it, the Dutch speak the best English
>of any foreigners.  It's easier to understand than most Scots.  BTW Dutch
>seems pretty close to English.  Ever hear someone speak Frisian - Bizarre!!
>					
>						Latre.
>						C.Q.

But the Frisian language is much closer to English than Dutch is.
And most of the Dutch people I know don't pronounce English really
that well (including myself, unfortunately), usually it's very easy
to tell they're Dutch just by their accent (it's quite a characteristic
accent I think).

By the way, I quite like the Scottish accents (esp. Glaswegian), but
I agree that it's hard to understand at first; it took me a few weeks
in Scotland to get used to it.

>	PS How many Brits can tell the difference between a Canadian &
>an American?

I'm not a Brit, but since about a year I can tell the difference (after
a Canadian explained to me how to). But I'd still like to find out how
to tell apart an Australian and a New Zealand accent.

Henk Jonkers     ( H.Jonkers@et.tudelft.nl )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
From: dstein@deimos.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Subject: Re: Translate Shakespeare!
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 06:44:21 GMT

In article <1aqvn8INNnjp@bigboote.WPI.EDU> kat@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Flame's Passion) writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.005013.21463@math.ucla.edu> dstein@dione.math.ucla.edu (David Stein) writes:
>>
>>  Shakespeare, most of all, should be finally translated into English.
>
>Prithee... What language is it that you are reading it in now?

 Czech.

>>  I enjoyed "Romeo a Julie" in elementary school, but here in High School
>>  reading Macbeth was no bed of roses.
>
>A simple suggestion... Get a copy of Cliff Notes and read it AFTER you read
> the original play if you are having so many troubles.  There are several
>publishers that have published his plays with a "translation" right along with
>it.  Perhaps your English teacher could point you in the right direction.

 No, I'll wait till the Masterpiece Theater does a closed-captioned version. 

>>  Nor, it seemed, was Shakespeare liked by my classmates very much.
>
>Really? In high school, I read Romeo and Julliet, Julius Caeser, Macbeth, Mid-
>Summer Night's, Othello, As YOu Like it, King Lear, Hamlet, The Merchant of 
>Venice, and The Taming of the Shrew.  (And probably a few that I left out)
>Anyway the point that I'm getting at is that I did fine as well as the rest
>of my class and we all enjoyed it.  I don't know... maybe we were just weird.
>Could quite possibly be.  Also - our teacher was excellent and she made
>Shakespeare fun....

 How old are you?

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not a native speaker of English, so I'm not sure what I wrote.
Flames will be ignored unless you post them in perfect Czech.
================================ - David (the metamathician) - ===
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:13219 rec.arts.books:17168
From: cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Enforced Shakespeare?
Date: 30 Sep 92 00:48:12 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <5871@mccuts.uts.mcc.ac.uk> zzassgl@uts.mcc.ac.uk (Geoff Lane) writes:

>As the marking of exams is now supposed to take into account the spelling
>and grammar used in the answers for subjects such as physics and chemistry
>(a GOOD IDEA) AND Shakespeare is to be used as an example of "good" English
>would you be marked down if your physics exam answers were expressed using
>the grammar and spelling used within the good old bard's plays?  

I congratulate you on the excellence of your pupils! If mine were to
use Shakespeare's spelling and grammar (as found in the school
editions which use modern spellings) they would be doing a damn sight
better than they do at the moment!
-- 
Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Help seeking flat in London
Date: 28 Sep 92 09:46:34 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin)
>I will be taking up a position in central London in February
>and will be looking for a furnished one-bedroom flat to rent
>for no more than 600 pounds/month inclusive of bills.  My
>priorities include:

600 pounds is about the right rate for a one-bedroom flat in
London. You'll have a resonable choice, and the only thing you
won't be able to afford is something really luxurious or
really central.

>Important:
>        quiet
>        low crime rate (inside entry?)
>        walking distance to shopping and tube
>        mod cons (central heating, decent kitchen and bath)

I am rather puzzled as to why Americans should always be so
obsessed with "bad" areas. There is nowhere in London which is a
"no-go" area. True, some parts are a little more pleasant than
others, but I work in the middle of the supposedly "bad" East
End, frequently travel home late at night, and have never
encountered any problems.

>1.  How nice a place could I expect?
>2.  In which neighborhoods/boroughs should I concentrate my
>    search?
>3.  What are the advantages/disadvantages to using a letting
>    agency such as Runyards?  Are there any specific agencies
>    to hire or avoid?

General advice is shop around. Because of the recession (and,
though it hurts to say, the Conservatives' abolition of rent
control laws) there's no shortage of rented property. It's
generally considered that the western parts of London are
"nicer" than the eastern parts, and the parts south of the
Thames are served by overground rail rather than the tube and
are thus less convenient for transport.

Don't sign anything or pay anything until you are completely
satisfied. The rip-off agencies that used to exist when rented
accomodation was more scarce have been forced to clean up, but
shop around between agencies as well.

Matthew Huntbach
From: agc@bmdhh298.bnr.ca (Alan Carter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Abuse A Brit (was Re: Pardon my ignorance and such)
Date: 29 Sep 92 12:31:17 GMT
Organization: BNR-Europe-Limited, Maidenhead, England

In article <1992Sep28.211359.19028@udel.edu>, slking%epx.cis.umn.edu (Simon King) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep28.181734.4500@bnr.uk>, agc@bmdhh298.bnr.ca (Alan Carter) writes:
|>> In article <TORKEL.92Sep28180332@bast.sics.se>, torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen) writes:
|>> |> In article <6250083@hpopd.pwd.hp.com> ian@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Ian Watson) writes:
|>> |>>I've been hauled up once before for using this term ["Jap"], and I still
|>> |>>don't see why.  To me, it's the equivalent to 'Brit', which I don't
|>> |>>find in the least offensive.
|>> |> 
|>> |>   ...In the case of "Jap" it has emerged in soc.culture.japan that some
|>> |> Japanese at least consider it highly offensive... 
|>> 
|>> Can anyone think of a derogatory term used by other nations (that the
|>> British can understand to be insulted by it), to refer to the British
|>> (or in my case the English)?
|>> 
|>> I don't mean things like 'Limey' or (from a Scot) 'Englishman' :-)
|>> 
|> An ironic rejoinder to my previous post:
|> the Germans have been known to call us "Inseln-Affen" = island apes.
|> Whether this origionally referred to our deportment, or to our politcal system 
|> and economy, or our football fans, I know not.
|> 
|> Why do you want this information ????
|> yours inquisitively,

Reading the previous posts it occured to me that although colloquial 
English has a rich set of abusive terms for persons from other cultures,
or subcultures with non-indigenous ethnic roots (see Monty Python's 
Prejudice Sketch), I could not think of any circumstance where I had felt
subjected to abuse by anyone else (apart from a mob of skinheads who
shouted 'Yuppie' at me out of a car once - I was offended because I'm not 
a yuppie and don't look like one - not because I was a yuppie with hurt 
feelings).

Is English unusually rich in these terms of abuse?

   Alan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Maidenhead itself is too snobby to be pleasant. It is the haunt of the
   river swell and his overdressed female companion. It is the town of showy
   hotels, patronized chiefly by dudes and ballet girls. 

   Three Men In A Boat, Jerome K. Jerome, 1889
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: (My) quotes for the week...
Date: 5 Oct 92 10:31:10 GMT
Reply-To: P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Organization: University of Bristol

Related to all of the various arguments going on in here just now, I
found two quotes in yesterday's Observer which took my fancy.  The
first, a comment on the state of Britain today:

'We have lost 4 per cent of our GNP.  We have driven our own economy
into the sand; we approach three million unemployed; our housing market
is a disaster; our businesses have gone under by the hearse-load; there
is a horrendous worsening of living standards; we are losing world
market share and continue to run a huge deficit.'

Now, which leading lefty said that?  Surprise, it was Lord Ridley (one
of Maggie's former cabinet ministers) writing in the Spectator.  What a
lot of moaning minnies these lefties are.  Now I'd bet that I disagree
with him about how to get out, but looks like he and I share the perception
of what the problem is.

The second, a quote from Victor Gollancz (a publisher), just after the
second world war, which feels germane again today.  (Indeed, if I
believed in clever signature blocks, I'd stick it in mine.)

'The plain fact is that we are starving people, not deliberately in the
sense that we want them to die, but wilfully in the sense that we
prefer their death to our own inconvenience.'

-- 
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
 P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!uknet!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:13154 rec.arts.books:17058
From: salter_duke@darwin.ntu.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
Subject: Enforced Shakespeare?
Date: 29 Sep 92 11:26:14 +0900

I've just read in my "Grauniad Weekly" that all British school-children
are going to have a compulsory test on a Shakespeare play at the age of 14.

Is this really true, or is it just a pinko-liberal rumour spread by the
"Gradiron" to convince the rest of the world that the Tories have gone
stark staring bonkers?

Linden

(Ex-English English teacher, and very relieved to be so)

-- 
Linden Salter-Duke		email: SALTER_DUKE@DARWIN.NTU.EDU.AU
Northern Territory University
Darwin, Australia		Snail: Box 40146, Casuarina, NT 0811
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Currency problems
Date: 7 Oct 92 00:53:11 GMT
Organization: sgi

In article <1992Oct6.150723.9537@bristol.ac.uk>, smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
>
> However, I question the criteria used for closure.  In simple
> economist's jargon, I believe that the financial criteria should 
> include the externals, both cost and benefit, as well as the 
> internals.

There was another post yesterday which made a related point:
whether there is an increased risk of pollution in shipping
coal from America.

I think these issues should be quantified, but I also think
that they should be quantified up-front, as part of pricing.
If we want to impose a pollution tax on a product because it
needs to be shipped, let's do that, and if we want to impose
a retraining tax on something because it abolishes old jobs,
let's do that.

Including these costs in price is a reasonably clean  and
rational way to deal with these issues.    It allows one
to make a direct comparison between competing products, and
it allows a supplier to come back later, when he may have
found a less polluting way to deliver his goods, and see
the improvement directly reflected in a decreased price.

My problem is with people who want to mix one quantifiable
measure, price, with a whole bunch of unquantifiable ones:
sentiment, history, patriotism, political correctness and 
so on, and who then want us to make the final decision on 
the particular measure, out of all that mess, which happens 
to be their hot button of the moment.

jon.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: ewm6965@sigma.tamu.edu (Ford Prefect)
Subject: Re: Tanstaafl (was: Americanising of the UK
Followup-To: soc.culture.british
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 00:56:00 GMT

In article <37091@uflorida.cis.ufl.edu>, sjg@chameleon.cis.ufl.edu (Steve
Greenwald) writes...
>In article <13SEP199223285147@venus.tamu.edu> ewm6965@venus.tamu.edu (Ford
Prefect) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep10.141623.7870@rtf.bt.co.uk>, fletcher@rtf.bt.co.uk
>>(Catherine Fletcher) writes...
>>>What exactly does tansnaafl stand for?
>>There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.  The source of the acronym seems
                                                                ^^^^^^^
>>to be Robert Heinlein's "The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress," though Mencken et al.
>>may have used the phrase before that.
                    ^^^^^^
>Heinlein didn't coin the phrase.  According to Heinlein it was an ironic

I didn't say he did.  The consensus here is that he was the first to make it an 
acronym, though.

Interesting, that ancient-Greek-or-whatever passage you quoted.  Mencken is the 
earliest source anyone here before you quoted for the phrase.
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Names of naughty politicians
Date: 6 Oct 92 11:59:12 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <Bvo465.26v@news.fai.com> pault@ossi.com (Paul Taylor) writes:

   The friend of Harold Wilson who got mixed up in a deal with washing machines

Don't remember the washing machines, but Lord Kagan was a pretty shifty
friend of Harold Wilson's.  He made raincoats.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)

		
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british