HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nyh@wpi.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed)
Subject: Re: FACTS EVERY ISRAEL BASHER MUST AVOID!
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 12:57:41 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.054957.7925@mcs.kent.edu> rayes@Snake.mcs.kent.edu (Sandra Rayes) writes:
>In article <1992Jul20.220422.6838@wpi.WPI.EDU> nyh@lektroid.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed) writes:
>>
>>	Stone dead is rather similar to bullet dead - inciting is not
>>known to be a cause for an attempted murder.
>>
>Exactly HOW MANY Israeli's have been killed by a rock's being hurled
>at them???  I can tell you that more the 1000 Palestinians have
>ben killed since the Intifada.

I don't have #'s ... but Israelis were killed by stones [not at this
incident] 

>>	Anyone hit a direct hit by such a stone [and I assume we all
>>seen them on TV]  is rather deadly.  The stone throwers have attempted
>
>Are we talking hand held rocks (the variety that are thrown) or
>boulders dropped over this wall (which there were none...)

Sarcasm will not make you right - the stones were not gravel - they
were big ennuf to cause brain damage if not death - the wall is rather
hight - there is an acceleration of falling objects [9.8 M/sec? I
forget] that can result in the said damage.


>>murder and if the only way to stop them is by shooting ... I donno why
>
>So the next time my friend's little brat throws a rock (or one of his
>little toy METAL cars) at me, I will tell her that COMMON SENSE says
>I can defend myself with an UZI to take care of her son...

What you do is your own choice - you shoul dnote the great difference
beween the 2 cases - most likely he is not making an attempt on your
life - surely you can see the difference - I am also preety much sure
he isn't able to achive required velocity.


>>	Anwar, noone said that the soldiers were worshipers - I am not
>>sure anyone of us knows even what is the religion of the soldier
>>[there are alot of Druez in the Border Guard].  On the other hand
>>Sandra did prefer to call them worshipers rather then
>>stone-thorwers-at-innocent-wall-prayers - though I respect most of
>
>They were WORSHIPPERS who arrived for prayers, when they came out there
>was a large band of Israelis passing out leaflets and chanting to 
>destroy the Mosque.  It started with yelling...I don't even know about
>rocks.  But they were yelling, police came in, holed the Muslims up 
>above in the courtyard, and all hell broke loose.  More than 20 Muslims
>were killed.  NO Israeli's were killed by any rocks or anything else
>on that day.

When they are in the mousq and pray - they are worshipers.
When they are outside and throw stones on people who are totaly
detached from the 'neemani har habayit' - they are stone throwers.


>Oh, really, YoYo....and your "killer rocks" is not?
rocks kill - they didnt this time - look at the damn video again.


		-Nevo
-- 
Nevo Y.	 Hed              nyh@wpi.wpi.edu
++1-508-754-2491          CS student, Worcester Polytechnic Institute.
"I like my cigar too, but I take it out of my mouth from time to time" G.Marx
From: m21757@mitre.org (G)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Withdrawl from Territories
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:57:13 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation

In article <1992Jul21.021137.115302@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar 
Mohammed) writes:
> In article <1992Jul20.222812.12343@wpi.WPI.EDU> nyh@lektroid.WPI.EDU 
(Nevo Y Hed) writes:
> >
> >
> >
> >G!!!!!!!
> >       though it might not be comftable - most of us here go by our
> >names - please show us some courtesy - thanx!
> >

I'm afraid I'm going to have to be discourteous, however that is not my 
intention, I just prefer to be identified as G. BTW I use the same id in 
all newsgroups not just here!

> >
> >In article <1992Jul20.202809.247@linus.mitre.org> m21757@mitre.org (G) 
writes:
> >>Sorry, I'm new to this, but are you saying that after Sinai was 
returned, 
> >>there have been military exchanges with Egypt?
> >
> >
> >
> >       I belive he sez that thelast time Israel returned Sinai
> >[endded in 82?] was not the first time Israel returned Sinai - thus
> >yes, there was an exchange before the last time.
> 
> '56 or '57 would've been the first time, no?  However, this was under 
considerable
> pressure from the U.S. and it was hardly a "goodwill" gesture.
> 

I believe Nora (and others too I suppose) is busy getting information of 
what happened during this time period.   This will be interesting.  BTW I 
was under the false assumption that what was being discussed was that 
there were military exchanges after the signing of a peace accord between 
Egypt and Israel.  

discourteoulsy,  :-) 

G
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hamid@McRCIM.McGill.EDU (Hamio Reza Mohammadi Daniali)
Subject: test
Originator: hamid@helios.mcrcim.mcgill.edu
Organization: McGill Research Centre for  Intelligent Machines
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 14:26:20 GMT


this is a test.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phillip M. Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: territories vs the territories
Reply-To: hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: DESY ZEUS Central Data Acquisition
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 20:30:46 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.072516.9490@midway.uchicago.edu>,
rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis) writes:

|>In article <1992Jul23.031418.9056@dscomsf.desy.de>
|>hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
|>>In article <0eOrGre00WB28UcXJa@andrew.cmu.edu>, Radu Eugen Edelstein
|>><re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
|>>
|>>|>Hallam writes:
|>>|>I think that it is more enlightening to consider that no member of
|>the
|>>|>security council recognises the Israeli annexation of Eastern
|>Jerusalem
|>>|>
|>>|>
|>>|>I say:
|>>|>According to what I know, the US does recognize Eastern Jerusalem
|>as
|>>|>part of Israel.  It is Jerusalem's status as capital of Israel
|>that
|>>|>the US has problems with.  I think someone recently posted
|>something
|>>|>similar to what I am saying.
|>>
|>>Since I remember the immense panic after Gary Hart made his election
|>>promise to move the US embassy to Jerusalem I can guarantee that this
|>is
|>>false. The US does not recognise the anexation of East Jerusalem.
|>
|>Excuse me, but as embassies are located in a nation's capital, it
|>seems
|>that a panicked refusal to move an embassy to a particular city could
|>equally well represent an unwillingness to recognize the city as a
|>part
|>of the country or an unwillingness to recognize the city as the
|>country's
|>capital. You've given no evidence either way.

I remember the pundits pointing out the problems that it would cause
since it would require the US to recognise the anexation. Gary Fraggle
lost quite a few brownie points when it turned out that he wasn't even
aware of the problems in such a move. But then he was simply an
opportunist politician after votes rather than a supporter of Israel.


Phill Hallam-Baker
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: analyst@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: Ajamis and Anwar Mohammad
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 18:23:16 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


The notion that Fuad Ajami is a non-Arab Khomeinist is ludicrous. I agree-
anyone who has read his stuff or heard him on PBS and elsewhere
knows that isn't so.

What is so is that he's a highly intelligent expert with deep
perceptions and insights, who is sometimes critical of the behavior of
Arab governments and even, sometimes, the Palestinians. This would
naturally put him on the intellectual hit list. Propagandists need to
discredit credible people like him, who are of their own group rather
than the opposing group, to continue to peddle their notions that
black is white, and that there's such a thing as Arab "unity" in
support of their "brother Palestinians." In the Territories, Arabs
have almost routinely murdered other Arabs who take such rational
positions.

-- 
David Sternlight        David Sternlight Inc.        email:analyst@netcom.COM
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: chrism@cirrus.com (Chris Metcalfe)
Subject: Re: Gandhi and Ben Gurion
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:46:17 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.174254.29697@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> ejk@coral.JPL.NASA.gov (Elya Kapelyan) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.173205.6722@cs.brown.edu>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>
>|> While rejecting the comparison between Gandhi and Shamir, one can easily
>|> conjecture how Gandhi's ideas and ways of doing things would work in the
>|> middle-east. Not too good, I am afraid.
>|> 
>|> (please don't interpert this as a negative opinion on Gandhi, which was
>|>  undoubtly a great man).
>|> 
>|> -Danny Keren.
>|> 
>
>	As a sidenote, I believe that Gandhi supported the population exchange
>that brought Pakistan into being.  If such a stance were translated to the 
>Middle East (and in particular Israel), this stand would put Gandhi to the 
>right next to Moledet...
>
>	Elya
>

On my last trip to Israel I visited Ben Gurian's cabin at Sde Boker, the Kibbutz
he founded in the Negev.  In his personal library he kept a photograph of Gandhi
above his desk.  Appearently, he though very highly of Gandhi, and considered
Gandhi to be an influence in his development.

-- Chris Metcalfe
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phillip M. Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: territories vs the territories
Reply-To: hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: DESY ZEUS Central Data Acquisition
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 03:22:04 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.094013.6206@rs.com>, horen@rs.com (Jonathan B.
Horen) writes:

|>In article 91477@bu.edu, gene@cs.bu.edu (Gene Itkis) writes:
|>>In article <1992Jul21.063519.4451@rs.com> horen@rs.com writes:
|>>+In article 21981@venera.isi.edu, arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
|>>+-I'm afraid you know wrong.  The US does not even recognize western
|>>+-Jerusalem (i.e., the part taken by Israel in 1948) as part of Israel.
|>>+-I've mentioned in the past that the US State Department will not record
|>>+-a person's country of origin in a passport as 'Israel' if they were born
|>>+-in Jerusalem.
|>>+
|>>+Ah-h-h, I'm afraid *you* know wrong. Both of my daughters were born at the 
|>>+"Bikur Cholim" hospital, smack-dab in the middle of Jerusalem, and both of 
|>>+their *American* passports list place of birth as "Jerusalem, Israel".
|>>
|>>Perhaps you both know right: Yigal probably meant those born before 48.
|>
|>Uh-h-h, if *that's* what Yigal meant, then heck, my wife was born in Tel-Aviv
|>in 1945, and *her* birth-certificate lists place of birth as "Tel-Aviv,
|>Palestine", while her US Passport lists it as "Tel-Aviv, Israel".
|>
|>If Yigal wants to be mekhadesh something, he's gonna hafta work harder.

Given the efficiency I have witnessed from the US imigration services I
would not rely on the fact that they do something as meaning that this
is what the policy is.

Office clerk types are not known for their grasp of global politics,
merely their ability to grasp a rubber stamp and shuffle paper.

Phill Hallam-Baker
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Subject: Ironic, isn't it?
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 23:47:57 GMT


   Jack Schimdling has posted a complaint that someone told a lie
about him.  Hmm.
-- 
"The tree of liberty must occasionally be nourished by the blood
of tyrants and of patriots."                    Thomas Jefferson
"Hello? Information?  Would you please give me the home phone of
Pat Buchanan?...Yes.  His address as well, thank you very much."
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Subject: Re: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Prote
Reply-To: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 21:40:38 GMT


In a previous article, anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) says:

>>
>>I wonder if the fact that Edwards is a hate-monger, or the fact that he had
>>little regard for facts and made up absurd, inflammatory statements such as
>>"Yitzhak Shamir and David Ben Gurion colluded with the Nazis during World
>>War II" could have had anything to do with his well-deserved canning. 
>
>Our local paper, the Pittsburgh Press, has reported on Yitzhak Shamir's
>dealings with the Nazis.  Should it be shut down? (Despite the fact that
>the Teamsters have done that for several weeks now).
>
There's a difference between dealing with Nazis and colluding with them.
I've heard some Palestinian Arabs claim that Shamir was effectively
negotiating with the PLO terrorists, but I haven't heard of them believing
that he was colluding with THEM!
-- 
bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Subject: Re: Avoiding Flames
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 04:01:09 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Jul22.234704.24874@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.061730.8419@mcs.kent.edu> rayes@Snake.mcs.kent.edu (Sandra Rayes) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul21.170738.2725@dazixco.ingr.com> naftaly@dazixco.ingr.com writes:
>
>>>So what is Syria doing in Lebanon for the last years?
>>
>>Have *I* ever condoned Syria????  Have I *ever* defended Syrian actions????
>>NEVER....
>
>No, you haven't. You seem to be following the "if you can't say anything
>nice, don't say anything at all" policy wrt Syria. Why you hold the double
>standard of attacking Israel loudly, frequently, and publicly while Syria
>gets ignored no matter what it does, is a question to which I'd like a
>reasonable answer before I chalk it up to prejudice.

Well, for one, Nora, there are *nowhere near* as many Syrians on this newsgroup (or
in the world, for that matter) claiming that Syria is democratic and justified 
in all its actions as there are Israelis claiming the same for Israel.


>
>	-Nora
>
>


-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome)    School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: Avoiding Flames
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:39:04 GMT

In article <52fm09f.analyst@netcom.com>, analyst@netcom.com (David
Sternlight) writes:
> 
> Sandra is full of mirth when she says the Israelis are doing the same
> thing in Lebanon that the Syrians are.
> 
> Very droll, Sandra.
> 
> The Israelis are there to prevent attacks on Israel from Lebanon.
> The Syrians are not there to prevent attacks on Syria from Lebanon.
> 
> Sandra, uh, er, did you actually PASS political science?
> 
> -- 
> David Sternlight        David Sternlight Inc.        email:analyst@netcom.COM

One wonders whether Israel is in Lebanon to instigate attacks on Israel.
The PLO has been disarmed in Lebanon and the Hezbollah have not attacked
Israel except after the death of Mosavi. It is certainly possible for
the Lebanese resistance to strike Israel if it chooses. Since it does
not, it would seem that Israel is not a target. The Lebanese are
fighting to push Israel out of Lebanon. Israel knows that Syria is
capable of controlling the Lebanese border just as it is capable of
controlling its border with Israel. Israel is in Lebanon because it
wants to be there, not because it has any real security concern. If
Israel is afraid of the Lebanese it is probably because they know that
they have rained rockets and artillery rounds down on their heads for
years and have bulldozed their homes and destroyed their villages. All
because of what? -- the fear that a few Israelis might be killed because
of a border infiltration? Some might say killing your neighbors is a way
to ensure your safety and survival; I call it murder and terrorism.

It is time for Israel to get out of Lebanon and let both countries live
in peace!

Brad
From: phd21@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: More about Ajami
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:00:53 GMT
Reply-To: phd21@seq1.kl.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Organization: University of Keele, England



	Fouad Ajami in his article "the End of Arab Nationalism" in the 
	New Republic of August 12, 1991 he says" An Arab historian with
	American Citezenship was lifted out of Beirut in the summer of
	1982 by the US Enbassy; he arrived on America's shores to rail
	against America's Imperialism and to offer up the old pieties.
	Christian Arabs who in private expressed deep fears of the
	Muslim tide stepped out into the public domain to speak the
	progressive role of Islamic movement, to praise its
	anti-Imperialistic character. ......"
	

Here again Ajami shows his mentality. Who gave Ajami the right to
slander American citezens for speaking out their mind? Those American
Citezens who thought the US policy in the Middle East was not right.
Ajami is not aware that he is denying them a very sacred American
institution which is freedom of speech. The same institution that gave 
him the right to come on TV and dish out his mumble-jumble about any
thing moves in the Middle East. 

Ajami chose the words carefully by describing his foes as Arab 
Americans instead of refering to them as Americans in order to discredit
them. I wonder if Ajami ever heard of many promiment Americans who 
disagreed with the Reagan's Policy in the Middler East, those honourable
Americans were not Arabs but for some reason Ajami chose to ignore this.
To be honest those Americans who said no to the US policy said it while 
they are proud of America and they did not need to crawl to get recoginition 
from America. 

The calculated cheap attacks of Ajami extends to the Christian Arabs of 
America. In his calculated attack Ajami thinks he want to become a Giant
in the eyes of the literary world. Of those Christian Arabs who are
attacked by Ajami for the defense of Islam is Prof. Edward Said, Ajami
is not aware that he is adwarf in the intellectual world when compared
to Prof Said to quote Lloyd-Bentsen ( YOU are no Prof Said Fouad Ajami).

Ajami goes on to say that Christain Arabs were expressing their fears 
in private about Islam, I do wonder if Ajami was the private confidence
of the Christian Churches in the Middle East. Once again the attack by
Ajami on christian Arabs is a calculated  Khomeinist approach. This
tactic was used by Radio Tehran to discredit Arabs by saying what
good Arab Nationalism since many of its followers and leaders are
Christians.

This is Ajami and his admirer Anwar Mohammad!! Compare the two.

A Jaber

|" Why don't you Shut up and sit down"               |
|George Bush July 24th. 1992 speaking to the families| 
|of the American MIAs.				     |
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Subject: Re: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Prote
Organization: Australian National University
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 10:41:26 GMT

makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

>In article <1992Jul25.041112.7127@cs.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
># In article 24456@cs.brown.edu, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
># ><24131@castle.ed.ac.uk> egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
># >##I wonder if the fact that Edwards is a hate-monger, or the fact that he had
># >##little regard for facts and made up absurd, inflammatory statements such as
># >##"Yitzhak Shamir and David Ben Gurion colluded with the Nazis during World
># >##War II" could have had anything to do with his well-deserved canning. 

># >#Maybe he was referring to the 1941 offer of the LEHI group, commanded by
># >#Shamir, to co-operate with the Nazis against the British (Ha'aretz, Jan 31,
># >#1983).

># Here is the opinion of a good historian who has looked at the matter
># in great detail:
> 
>#   "Zionist historiography and political debates in general are rife 
>#   with arguments about these Lehi contacts with the Axis (Germany and 
>#   her allies.)  One of the arguments used to try and justify the
>#   negotiations which Lehi tried to initiate through Otto von Hentzig,
>#   the Axis representative in Beirut, was that in 1941 nothing was as
>#   yet known about Nazi Germany's genocidal policy, so that there was
>#   no reason to regard Germany as a worse enemy than Great Britain.
>#   The spuriousness of this contention becomes clear from even a 
>#   cursory reading of Jabotinsky's last book (written in the summer of
>#   1940), which shows that the latter fully realized the demoniacal
>#   nature of the Nazis' anti-Semitism and racism.  ...  The claim that
>#   the negotiations with the Axis representatives were intended to 
>#   save the Jews of Europe is equally fallacious.  Articles in Lehi 
>#   publications portrayed the 'Jewish front in Europe' as a lost 
>#   front, that would be impossible to save."  
>#   [Yaacov Shavit, Jabotinsky and the Revisionist Movement 1925-1948,
>#    page 231]
> 
>	If this is what that historian believes, then he is by no means
>good.  While Jabotinsky was indeed a "prophet", to their own detriment
>the organized Jewish community always considered him an outcast.  This
>information is by no means secret, and I would tend not to believe
>anything ever written by that historian for making such an
>observation.

I don't understand your argument.  The Lehi were not part of the
"organized Jewish community", they were part of the Revisionist
movement of which Jabotinsky was the father.  Shavit's point is
that anything serious Jabotinsky knew about the Nazis would
have been known by Stern and the other senior members of Lehi
(incl Shamir), who had been in Jabotinsky's group until only a
few months before.  It seems to be a valid point.  I don't think
it relies on Jabotinsky's standing in the wider community.

>David Makowsky

Brendan.
From: martillo@stars.clearpoint.com (Joachim Martillo)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Protest
Date: 26 Jul 92 16:14:18 GMT
Organization: Clearpoint Inc., Hopkinton, MA

In article <bdm.712146212@cs.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:

>Maybe that's because I wasn't trying to prove anything except
>to state a couple of facts relevant to Ben's posting.  However,
>as you are The Martillo, I understand that you are unable to
>resist reading my mind from a great distance and calling me names
>according to what you fantasize to be there.  What a joke you are.

What a joke you are!  I know its wrong to make fun of the handicapped,
but this comment presents such an opening.  What makes you think that
I fantasize that anything is there, dear Brendan.  To suffer a fantasy
with so little contact with reality, I would have to be doing serious
drugs.  Poor Brendan! Had you attended my prep school and made such
Mickey Mouse comments, you would have been rendered a quivering lump
of protoplasm within a half an hour of your first appearance.

>Brendan.

Joachim Carlo Santos Martillo Ajami
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast