HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dave@monitor.larc.nasa.gov (Dave A. Hinde)
Subject: What Is It 
Keywords: French, Saab, Renault 
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:21:09 GMT

A friend picked up a car yesterday at a police auction.  He doesn't know what it is
but the price was right (don't ask what).  Here's the basic description:
     Fiberglass body with T-type top (two panels, but no center bar)
     Saab V-4 engine mounted behind the seats (mid-engine)
     Renault 3 bolt wheels
     Mid 70's vintage (so it appears by shape/styling)
     Flip up headlights
By the basic license plate cutout shape, it doesn't appear to have ever been meant
for U.S. licensing.  There were no number plates, title, manufacture markings, etc.
He thinks the car is French, but I'm not sure where that assumption stems from.  

Any thoughts on the identity??  Please E-mail me directly, as I may be away from
usenet for the next two weeks.
  
                                      ___/,@___  Dave Hinde, Last Minute Racing
                                     /_o_____o_| dave@monitor.larc.nasa.gov
From: dosbears@netcom.com (David R. Preston)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Broken seat back ('86 Mustang LX)
Date: 1 Sep 92 07:24:51 GMT
Organization: DosBears at Netcom

The bolt that holds the seat back in place on my '86 Ford Mustang
LX sheared off the other day, leaving me flat on my back while driving.
Fortunately, I was stopped at a light and had no problem maintaining
control of the car. If I'd been moving at the time it could have caused
a serious accident. It seems to me that this part should never wear out
under normal use (which is certainly what the car has had). Am I right
in thinking that Ford should fix this for free and be thankful that I
wasn't in some horrible accident that I could sue them for? I took it
to the nearest Ford dealer and they weren't real excited about it. They
said that there wasn't a recall for that problem and that the part would
cost me $109. I suggested that they call Ford and see if they didn't want
to fix it for me. I should hear back tomorrow....
-david


-- 
Disclaimer: This disclaimer is not required by Leader Kibo.  This article
does not necessarily represent the opinions of Leader Kibo.  Have a nice
day.
********* HAPPYNET: YOU CONTROL HOW IT CONTROLS YOU *********
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers)
Subject: MPG (was: Re: Honda Civic Bashing continues...)
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:40:09 GMT

In article <7740214@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> rjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Schneider) writes:

>mikeq@aspen.CNA.TEK.COM (Mike Quigley) writes:

>>I have a VX that gets an honest 55 mpg and cost me less than 9 k (through
>>an auto broker). Top that, Detroit!

>        The Geo Metro XFI is still the winner in the highest EPA city and
>        highway MPG figures. It is higher than the VX. Since Geo is sold
>        by GM, in a sense, Detroit did "top that" and has for several
>        years.

_Road & Track_ (or Rod & Truck, dependant on their latest review of my
fav cars :-), went and visited the UC Davis folks (high MPG record
holders) with a Civic VX and a Metro.  Using the UCD techniques the
Honda got 105 MPG (!?!) and the Metro got 108 MPG (!?!).  This at an
average speed of 20 mph.

Impressive.

On a personal note, I owned an old '67 Porsche 912 long ago.  It got a
reliable 32 mpg on the highway and dropped to 18 mpg in town.  The 912
would run 0-60 in 12 seconds and hit the 1/4 mile in 18.6 seconds and
hit 120 mph on level ground and _lots_ of room.

Now I have an '82 Alfa Romeo GTV6.  It gets a reliable 34 mpg on the
open road and drops to 22 mpg in town.  It will go 0-60 in about 8.4
seconds, hit the quarter in 16.4 seconds and tops out at 130+ mph.  We
have come a long ways, even in a few short years...

--
"Time is simply the illusion of the passing of history, and history is
simply the illusion of the passing of time..."
                                -The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Iaido   Takamine   Hobie   Rossignol   Alfa GTV6  Ducati MHR(DOD #900)
From: arnold@salzo.Cary.NC.US (Arnold)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Convertibles...
Date: 1 Sep 92 09:02:13 GMT
Organization: SalzoBoard BBS

I am interested in information, owner response, and recommendations
on the following cars:
 
Nissan 240sx convertible
Ford Mustang lx 5.0 convertible
Geo Storm convertible (Does it exist?)
Toyota Celica convertible
Any other convertibles in this price range (Not the Miata)
 
How much did you pay, do you like the car, is it reliable, fun?
 
Please EMAIL me directly as I do not follow this feed.
 
Arnold
ARNOLD@SALZO.CARY.NC.US
From: jiang@mprgate.mpr.ca (J.C. Jiang)
Subject: SHO Engine for Probe GT - Why Not?
Originator: jiang@msat
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 17:48:47 GMT

The '93 Probe GT is a gorgeous new sports coupe, but its small DOHC V-6
is somewhat underpowered for the hard core performance enthusiats. 
I wish they renamed the current "GT" to "LX", and put the 220hp 3.0L V-6
from the SHO in the Probe and called it GT. All of my friends agree 
that the free-revving SHO engine is perfect for the Probe. I feel that
a Probe SHO should have no trouble beating a 5.0 Mustang in 0-60. Is this
realistic? Or am I just day dreaming? 

-jj
-- 
------------------------------+-----------------------------------------
J.C. Jiang    	              | Voice: (604) 293-5795
MPR Teltech Ltd.              | Fax:   (604) 293-5787
8999 Nelson Way, Burnaby, BC  | Email: jiang@mprgate.mpr.ca  OR
Xref: sparky rec.autos:20954 rec.autos.tech:11875
From: cranston@ayn.cadence.com (W. Scott Cranston)
Subject: Re: BMW Highway Patrol Car
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Lowell MA, United States of America
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 06:34:35 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.151315.7247@hubcap.clemson.edu>
jlysagh@hubcap.clemson.edu (james joseph lysaght) writes:


> 
> Fpr those of you interested...
> 
> In conjunction with BMW building a new production plant in Greenville
> South Carolina, BMW has provided the South Carolina Highway Patrol with
> a special car for them to use.  The HP will lease the car for $1(US) for
> 6 months to determine if it is suitable for use in patrolling the
> highways and then determine if they wish to purchase some.  The car is
> the BMW M5.  It has a 5.7 Liter hand built engine and would market for
> $65,000(US).  It registers to 180 mph but is expected to go more.  THe
> officer driving says he doubts it will be long before he is required to
> determine just how much more. The officer also said that driving it is
> hardly any different than the Mustang he was patrolling in except that
> it accelerates a lot smoother and faster.  It has all the fancy
> trimmings; leather interior, CD Player, power everything (windows,
> seats, locks, etc.).  It is a pretty neat looking car but a pretty
> unusual looking highway patrol car.
> 
> Jim

Wow!  Know any more about this?  Is it just a stock car or does it
have special "police" options like stiffer sway bars, beefed-up
electrical system, etc.  If so, is this option package available to
the general public??  If so, I just might start playing the lottery.

And how about a scan of the picture??

Scott



--
+---------^>        "The Spirit of Massachusetts is the Spirit of America"
|        <                    -Massachusetts Division of Tourism
+-------. \   7     "Right..."
         \_\_/                -cranston@cadence.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bart@optimla.aimla.com (Bart Besseling)
Subject: ** VAN FOR SALE ** in L.A.
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization
Distribution: ca
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 23:04:51 GMT

For Sale:  1985 Dodge Ram Full-size Conversion Van

8 cylinder engine -- 61,000 miles

Great condition!  Includes air conditioning; power steering, locks & windows; 
cruise control; four comfortable chairs and large fold-down sofa-bench; 
interior lighting; curtains; roof rack; radio and tape player.

I'm relocating and MUST SELL IMMEDIATELY!!

Will not refuse any reasonable offer; how about $4000 ?

Call Andrew at 310-305-9129 or respond by e-mail.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Mitsubishi 3000GT-VR4, Toyota MR-2 Turbo
From: thomas@datamark.co.nz (Thomas Beagle)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 22:26:36 GMT
Organization: Datamark International Ltd.

In article <692@svcs1.UUCP> twc@svcs1.UUCP (Ted Chan) writes:
>
>I'd advise against buying a pre-'93 MR2 Turbo.  Toyota has apparently
>fiddled with the rear suspension geometry in the '93 model which
>cures some nasty behaviour at the back end (when driving near the
>limit).

I remember when the current MR2 came out. It was about the same time
as some Ferrari (348?).

Car magazine (UK) did articles on both.

They praised the Ferrari for its excellent handling. It seems that the
handling and steering was very direct and could easily be induced into
serious oversteer, therefore proving that it was in the Ferrari
tradition.

They praised the MR2 for its excellent handling. They then abused it
for being touchy at the limit.

There's an inconsistency there that I can't quite place my finger
on...

:-)
-- 
    Thomas Beagle | thomas@datamark.co.nz    or | A beagle a day keeps        
Datamark Intl Ltd | thomas@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz | the doctor at bay.
 Technical Writer | 		      Vote MMP!
     Email is good.  Email is fun.  Getting up and walking is evil.
From: ac579@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (G.C.J. Timm)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: review: eagle vision
Date: 3 Sep 1992 14:19:49 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


From Andrew.morgan@canrem.com
RE:  Chrysler LH series
>Could you give me details of the spotty quality...

In a previous post I described the Dodge version which was
promenently displayed in front of a local Dodge dealer,
Bad paint, oil leaks, missaligned body parts, sealant on
the distorted windshield, etc.
The car has since been removed.
The Eagle Vision I looked at last Sunday LOOKED pretty good.

No I haven't driven either one.  

>I'm not sure what you mean about former British workmanship from
>Socialist Canada....

Welll..... I'd like to apologize for that nasty remark, but
considering the problems I've had with striking and/or generally
offensive Canadian Customs Persons (and I use the reference to
"people" loosly) I don't think one is due.  How Canadians tolerate
"civil servants" like those I cannot comprehend.  

Specifically I was trying to ship custom computer software 
(owned by the US Gov't) to the office which gives LARGE quantities
of US Dollars to the Canadian Commercial Corp.  After three tries
the Hosers finally passed the shipment  AFTER screwing up the
disks!

We finally sent the stuff by modem, which is what I wanted to do
in the first place.

As for Canadian worker competence and quality, I once had a
Windsor engine in a Ford Truck.  I was less than impressed, esp.
after sorting out quality mistakes one at a time....

Anyway.  The Last Hope cars are pretty much a failure now,
unlikely to sell very well, esp. against the Pontiac Bonneville,
Toyota Camry, Mercury Sable, which is the direct Sticker Price
competition.

Jeff
Who does not like CPDJE after owning three new ones!
From: LYAA060@UTXVM.CC.UTEXAS.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: '93 Sentra SE-R
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:43:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: UTXVM.16858B2FF.LYAA060
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin

For what it's worth, I saw a 1993 SE-R yesterday.
Changes from 92: airbag option ($575), slightlylarger
front spoiler (didn't look very different to me);
different, somewhat clearer numbers on instruments;
velour seat cloth (cheesy-looking pattern, IMHO);
base price $13,280.
 
There are also supposed to be some new colors and
new radio options.
-- John Kupersmith lyaa060@utxvm
From: johnl@pcx.ncd.com (John Light)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Recommendations for Mini Van
Keywords: Plymouth Voyager/Dodge Caravan, air conditioning
Date: 26 Aug 92 19:52:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: pcx.1992Aug26.195215.12363
Organization: Graphic Software Systems, Beaverton, OR

In article <4832@balrog.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com writes:
>The airbag
>may be an advantage for a pregnant woman, but I expect most people would own
>the vehicle for more than nine months, at which point a wise man would ask
>whether the $800 or $900 investment for the bag is really worth it.  The NHTSA
>notes that survival rates for belt and belt-and-airbag are similar, provided,
>of course, that you _wear_ the belt.

Note also that the Caravoyager air bag is never referred to by Chrysler
as an "air bag".  It is a "minivan air bag".  Because of the geometries
in the Caravoyager, Chrysler found it difficult to put an automobile air
bag in it, so they didn't.  Their minivan air bag does not meet Federal
requirements for an automobile air bag, and they call it a minivan air bag
to circumvent regulations concerning the name.  This is even more reason
to wear your seat-belt-and-shoulder-harness.

On the other hand, the Toyota Previa air bag is part of a complete package
that meets Federal automobile safety requirements.

John Light
johnl@gss.com
Xref: sparky rec.autos:21189 rec.autos.tech:12047
From: acohen@cs.ucsd.edu (Ariel Cohen)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Oh no! Another Club thread! (was: CLUB story)
Date: 2 Sep 92 02:43:39 GMT
Followup-To: rec.autos
Distribution: na
Organization: CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego


   Ok, ok, so here's the definitive word on the Club...

   A car of mine had a Club on its steering wheel when it was stolen
a couple of years ago. Another car, which was parked next to mine and
had a sophisticated alarm system, was also stolen at the same time.
Conclusion: if a pro wants your car, he'll get it. 

   However, Clubs/alarm systems/etc. do reduce the chance of theft when 
the thief is not a pro or when he doesn't target your car in particular. 
In such cases, the thief will probably look for an unprotected car; since
many (most?) people don't use any anti-theft devices, he's bound to
find one close by. I still use the Club - it's inexpensive, there are
no false alarms and it's better than nothing.

-- Ariel
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: wlsmith@valve.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Wayne Smith)
Subject: Re: I HATE MY DODGE
Organization: The John P. Robarts Research Institute, London, Ontario
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 05:44:13 GMT

In article <UedDsxO00WBLI3o5wo@andrew.cmu.edu> Janviere S Thuman <jt3u+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>At 12,000 miles (while still under warranty) my brakes began to pulse
>violently. I realize that normal wear and tear on a car happens, but at
>12,000 miles, no brakes should go bad! I didn't complain. I had the
>rotors turned and pads replaced etc, but began to experience the EXACT
>same thing in less than 5,000 miles. I am not an erratic driver. I live
>on the Eastern Shore of Maryland where it is FLAT and rural. To this
>day, the car is still in almost perfect condition (garage kept, cleaned,
>maintained, etc) (And I have a Jeep that I drive when the weather is
>bad) 

Again another disk-brake problem.
As I have said before, disk brakes are for the birds!

> I will never ever never ever buy another Chrysler. If not for the
>quality of their products, for the inability of the company to help me.
>. . a consumer. (I'm young too! I plan to buy many cars in the future!)

I drive a 27 year old Dodge (1965).  
I wouldn't trade it in for any 'modern' car because of it's trouble-free
operation, or ease of fixing, or low cost of repairs.
There once was a time when automakers and dealerships didn't rely on
super-expensive 'check-ups', or didn't rely on expensive parts that
failed just past the warrantee, or fell outside the warrantee.

As for your brake problem, warped rotors are part of the design of
disk brakes; no-one builds a trouble-free disk brake (they will all
need resurfacing, and even if they don't your friendly neighborhood
midas or whomever will resurface them anyways, making them needlessly
thinner and even more prone to warping).

Say hello to 'modern' technology, and modern revenue generating methods...
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: hhelanto@vipunen.hut.fi (Henri R Helanto)
Subject: Re: Sierra RS Cosworth (WAS Re: Mustang SV
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: 29 Aug 92 02:45:47 GMT

In <1992Aug24.155256.9988@sbil.co.uk> jim@spitws117.sbil.co.uk (James Gillespie) writes:

<stuff deleted>
>The next chapter in the Ford/Cosworth story is the new Escort RS Cosworth.
>Summarized from the latest CAR magazine, the competition arm of Ford decided
>that the Sierra body is just too big for rallying these days, so they
>squeezed the Sierra Cosworth AWD mechanicals into what is more or less
>an Escort body.  At the same time they have tweaked the engine some and
>put the enormous spoiler on the back for the first 2500 (homologation...).
>After that, a smaller spoiler and smaller turbo (for better mid-range
>performance?  Technical details escape me).  CAR loved it.

	Oh no... they aren't serious about installing a smaller turbo
	and reducing the size of that rear spoiler, are they?
	...I _love_ the looks of the extended wheelbase Escort 
	look-a-like (17cm/7" longer than Escort) with the huge
	wing. 

>On the family-car-becomes-fire-breathing-monster front, has news of the
>Lotus Carlton reached the USA?  It's not very new, but I'll describe it
>anyway :-)  The Vauxhall (GM) Carlton is an executive car, one notch up
>from the Sierra here.  They brought in a little help from Lotus, to create
>a straight six, 24-valve, rear drive twin-turbo monster: 377bhp, 417lb ft.
>0-60 in 4.8s. 163mph.  Five seats.  Four doors.  A/C, CD, XYZ.

	That sounds nice... it's sold outside UK as the Opel Lotus Omega.
	I think some car magazine had an article about it and they
	compared it with BMW M5. It was a lot faster than the older
	M5, but the current M5 has been tuned up a bit.

-Henri Helanto
-- 
Henri Helanto - SysOp
hhelanto@vipunen.hut.fi m40176m@puukko.hut.fi
Call MyBBS (+358-0-485067/485068/485968/485918/488139, 24h) !
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: More Test Cars
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:31:04 GMT

Updates on my test vehicles:

1.  Just finished up my week-long evaluation of a '92
Audi 100CS Quattro ($32,900).

2.  Just took delivery of a pre-production Volvo 850.
This is the new 5 cylinder, fwd that should be fully
certified for sale pretty soon.

Questions?  Email usually works and I try to respond
to everyone.  In the last few weeks, many whom I've
tried to respond to about a specific test car have
bounced, so make sure you give me your right address.

bob
bob@ncube.com
From: chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Alfa vs. the world (was Re: HONDA CIVIC BASHING C
Date: 3 Sep 1992 20:31:14 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: regenmeister

From article <1992Sep02.203023.18208@news.mentorg.com>, by gcagle@dracula.mentorg.com (Greg Cagle):
> 
> In article <laa4olINNpto@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael) writes:
> |> 
> |> For example, it is quite obvious
> |> that the 924 was a response to (and near copy of) the Alfetta and the 
> |> 944 was a response to (and near copy of) the GTV6.
> |>  
> 
> Huh? I guess this wasn't obvious to me.

First, you should note that the the 924 got to the market about 2 years
after the Alfetta did (in Europe) and that the 944 (simply an upgrade of
the 924) also reached the market about 2 years after the GTV6 (simply an
upgrade of the Alfetta).

Next, that the Alfetta is the first mass produced car design with the
engine in front and the gearbox in the rear.  There are a few examples 
of exotics and numerous race cars with this configuration, but the
Alfetta is the first mass production car.  Two years later, the 924 is
the second.  There are some differences, the Alfetta had De Dion and the
924 had fully independant rear suspension and the Alfetta had a much
higher quality engine than did the 924 (for a sports car).  The 924 was
priced higher than the Alfetta.

The comparisons and timing between the GTV6 and the 944 are similar.
The 944 came out a bit less than two years after the GTV6.  Both cars 
were upgraded from 1.6 to 2.0 litre engines to 2.4 to 2.5 litre engines.  
The 944 engine (4 cylinder with ballance shafts) was (again) cheaper 
mechanically than the GTV6 engine (V6).  But this time, Porsche finally 
gave the buyer a bit more for the higher price by incorporating the 
first complete engine management system.

So, looking at what the two companies did and when, the conclusion that
Porsche was copying Alfa is inescapable.

Chris Prael
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Dreadfull service from local Isuzu dealer
From: asr_2@dac.mdcbbs.com
Date: 2 Sep 92 09:50:33 PST
Organization: MDC - Douglas Aircraft, Long Beach, CA
Nntp-Posting-User: asr_2

In article <1992Sep1.183219.3069@spock.retix.com>, tonyg@spock.retix.com (Tony "Salty Dog" Goulding) writes:
> I'm wondering if anyone else out there has had dreadfull adter-sales
> service from an Isuzu dealership?  My particular case (which I won't
> recount here as its too long winded) involved A/C and cruise control
> work done by Westoaks Isuzu in the Thousand Oaks Auto Mall.
> 
> Any takers - I'd be interested in hearing your experiences.  Please mail
> direct - I'll follow up if warranted.

I just dropped off my wife's Isuzu impulse at the dealer for the 
recall fix and plus the piece of sh*t has a transmission fluid leak.
At a lousy 9800 miles.  They are looking at it right now I will 
mail you how this comes out.  I have no patience if I get even a 
little bit of crap from them because I found out they basically
would take advantage of anyone for a buck, read this as they 
had the nerve to sticker a one year old impulse at 15k when it was
worth 8k.  My wife's brothers helped her buy it, now I am paying for
this reaming.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tony [All views expressed are mine - if anyone is to blame its me]
> ==================================================================
> "What a waste it is to lose one's mind.  Or not to have a mind is
> being very wasteful.  How true that is" Vice President Dan Quayle
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: C11815@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Josette Giacobbi)
Subject: Re: VOLVO info
Organization: Motorola
Date: 27 Aug 1992 10:14:27 CDT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
From: news@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (USENET News)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: VOLVO info
Date: 27 Aug 92 02:34:19 GMT
Reply-To: mckay!dwight@ecn.purdue.edu
Organization: Purdue University

In article <1992Aug24.090855.18564@mr.med.ge.com>
bednarek@picard.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971) writes:
>
>
> My son is considering buying a 1982 Volvo for his first car.  If anybody
> has any info on Volvos, like they are no good because.............or
> they are great because ................ I would appreciate it.

I'd say that my experience with Volvo's has been very good.  They are
durable and very safe, although not as inexpensive to maintain as some
other vehicles.

My wife has been in two accidents in two different Volvos and has come out
safely.  The combination of a good seat-belt system and Volvo's crumple
zones and frame construction really do work.

--Dwight D. McKay
From: ldillard@digi.lonestar.org (Lawrenece Dillard)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: front disc brake question
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:36:05 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

Last Saturday I replaced the rotors and pads on my '87 Taurus Gl wagon.

	o pads:  $23.00  at Autozone, with lifetime warranty
	o 2 rotors:  $27.00 apiece at Autozone, with 2 yr warranty

I also had to purchase a set of Torx heads that fit to a rachet, as a 
T-40 is needed to remove the pads from the calipher.  So my total investment
came to around $90.00 or so.  Don't know how much the dealer or another
shop would have changed, though.

I understand that Taurus' from 1987-1989 or '90 had the "throwaway" rotors.
I think Ford stopped that with the newer models.  Incedently, the new rotors
I purchased can be turned.

-Tom
Newsgroups: rec.autos