HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Full-Name: Tilak Ratnanather
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 07:21:33 EDT
From:         "Tilak Ratnanather" <tratnana@EUREKA-GOLD.WBME.JHU.EDU>
Subject: Re: personal bio
X-To:         DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU

Hi Martin:

Welcome to the list. I know someone who does research into
the mechanics of tongue in speech pathology here at Hopkins.
If you like, I could track her down and give you her e-mail
address.

Regards

Tilak Ratnanather (expatriate Englishman!)
Dept of Otolaryngology--Head & neck Surgery
The Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD
E-mail: tratnana@eureka-gold.wbme.jhu.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1992 03:49:36 -0400
From:         Miriam Clifford <DMIMI@ECSVAX.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Progress

Todd:
Any criticism of the attack on Cathy Brandt had nothing to do with her use
of "hearing impaired."  It was criticism of the attack on her as a teacher
of the deaf and an attack that said, explicitly, that she was incompetent
as a teacher of deaf children.  And this by a person that did not know her
except through her postings on the net.  I failed to find and "cavelier
attitude" on her part about anything.  I did read her postings as being
from an enthusiastic teacher, who enjoyed working and being with her
charges, and who was doing her energetic best to teach them what she had
been trained and hired to teach them.  What more can you ask of anyone?

I also find myself quite impatient with people who, young and usually
relatively inexperienced, absolutely KNOW everything that is right,
good, necessary, needed, etc for everyone else in the world.  And with
those who decide that what has happened to them, and what they think is
good or bad for them is good or bad for everyone.  "What is good for General
Motors is good for the Country!"  Can't retrieve from my flaky memory who
it was that said it, but look at your history books between the end of
WWII and, perhaps, 1970 or so.

By the way, I also suspect (I can't even make an absolute statement about
my own opinion of her as a teacher because I don't know her in person and
haven't watched her work with her kids) that Cathy is an exellent teacher
whose kids (at least, most of them) love and respect her.  Even if I'm
right, does that mean she's always 100% "good" or correct or that everyone
always loves her or that she (or anyone else, for that matter) always
does what is perfect for every student in her class?  Of course not.  Only
God could, and I suspect that even He misfires on occasion.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 00:15:46 EDT
From:         "Dave Windley, Data Comm Specialist X799" <AADW@CATCC.BITNET>
Subject:      VSex vs XSex

>
> OK, now I'm really wondering.  "X" handshape?? The sign I know for the word
> glossed as SEX uses a "V" handshape (like the legs of 2 little people... :-)
>
>   Vicki Brown
>   A/UX Development Group            Apple Computer, Inc., Cupertino, CA
>   Internet: vlb@apple.com           AppleLink: VICKI.BROWN

      Vicki:

      The SEX that the other poster is referring to seems to be SEX
      as in GENDER, not SEX as in INTERCOURSE.  I think that may be
      the source of confusion.
======================================================================
   Dave Windley,                       Catonsville Community College
      Data Communications Specialist          800 South Rolling Road
      Sign Interpreter                     CATONSVILLE MD 21228-9987
      GLBO Co-Founder                          Voice: (410) 455-4799
      ITR Club Vice President                             AADW@CATCC
======================================================================
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 09:24:42 -0400
From:         Miriam Clifford <DMIMI@ECSVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: KOREA

Interesting.  As I understand it (and I am NO expert on oriental languages)
meaning in Chinese, for example, is carried partially by the pitch and change
in pitch ofspeech, rather than primarily by the phonetic characteristics of
the speech.  Ha--I think I'm opening a bag of worms here that I may not be
able to close.  Anyway, whether a word is started at a low pitch and then
goes up in pitch or starts at a high pitch and goes down doesn't usually
change its basic meaning (though, as I think about it, it may change the
feeling tone that is carried).

Can someone clarify this issue?  Am I completely off base?  I think maybe
I don't know what I'm talking about here.
From: cer2520@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Curtis E. Reid)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Australia Deaf Organizations?
Date: 23 Aug 92 22:23:48 GMT
Reply-To: cer2520@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology

Does anyone know of any deaf organizations in Australia?  If so, can you mail
me the names, addresses, and phone numbers?  Thanks!

Curtis E. Reid				CER2520@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Rochester Institute of Technology/NTID	REID@DECUS.org (DECUS)
P.O. Box 9887				716.475.6089 TDD/TT 475.6895 Voice
Rochester, NY 14623-0887		716.475.6500 Fax
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 11:10:10 EDT
From:         Annie Senghas <annie@PSYCHE.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      re: tongue shape
X-To:         DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu

>
> The letter "y" can sound like a vowel, but it is still a consonant.
> (Just looking for fun...)
>
> Henry

Wait a minute-- vowels are SOUNDS, which get represented by
letters.  Sometimes the vowel sound /i/ is represented by the
letter "y" in English.  So to say "y" can SOUND like a vowel,
but not really BE a vowel, is a little misleading.

It is more accurate to say that, in English, "y" usually
represents a consonant, but sometimes represents a vowel.
Thus words like "by" and "sky" are not lacking vowels.

We learned a song in first grade that went:

"A E I O and U are the vowels,
and sometimes little Y, too."

Maybe we should have sang:

"A E I O and U indicate that one should pronounce a vowel sound,
and sometimes little Y does too."

but somehow I don't think the rhythm would have worked
quite as well.  (Rhythm.. wait!  No vowels in "rhythm?")

Now wasn't that fun, Henry?  I hoped so! :-)

-Annie
(annie@psyche.mit.edu)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 10:52:50 JST
From:         KAERI Kim YongChe <yckim@SORAK.KAIST.AC.KR>
Subject:      Re: Work Interaction

Annette says:
>There are 14 in my office,  no one knows sign/fingerspelling so our
>communication is all written or oral.  I don't attend many gatherings
>because it's usually the type of situation where I'd want to know
>what's being said by everyone & it's not only frustrating but
>quickly becomes very boring or I become too self-conscious.  So I'm
>very good at the 1:1 (water cooler) but not the large gatherings.

 Annette,

 I've been on the list almost a year and find the subject one of
 the most appealing. You hit my problem right on. I also have to
 work in an environment of all hearing coworkers. For years I
 sought for a way to get over the baffling situations (on both
 parts) you describe, without much success. Playing some kind of
 games and sports and even dancing might be okay, but when it comes
 to talks I can't imagine anything more workable than
 speechreading, at which I am still no good.

 For compensation I am very much interested in chats via BBS's or
 PC to PC. In my case electronic(?) chats proved ideal to break
 the barrier. So I only hope usage of the electronic means will
 soon be widespread and become a way of life like DEAF-L among us. Do you
 think my expectation farfetched?

 Yong Che  <yckim@sorak.kaist.ac.kr>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1992 04:35:25 -0400
From:         Miriam Clifford <DMIMI@ECSVAX.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Delivery Problem

Thank you, Roy, for forwarding Cathy's reply and the additional material
that was included.

Let me, again, apologize for not always including my name in the post.  The
mailer I'm using apparently has no automatic way of doing so and my
memory is pretty flaky.  Also, I sometimes get on the net at weird hours
of the night and am not always fully awake.  In any event, I have to manually
include my name each time and I frequently, but inadvertantly, forget.

Sorry.

dmimi@ecsvax.uncecs.edu  dmimi@ecsvax.bitnet
Miriam (Mimi) Clifford; 2535 Sevier St, Durham, NC 27705; 919-489-4821
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 22:49:54 EDT
From:         "Dave Windley, Data Comm Specialist X799" <AADW@CATCC.BITNET>
Subject:      Ear Tags, labels, and the d/Deaf

>
> I find it comical, if understandable, that some people attempt
> to make a distinction among the hearing impaired by adopting a
> typographical device of writing Deaf or deaf (D/deaf). Pray tell,
> how is one to pronounce the difference between 'D' and 'd'?

      I have attended several workshops and meetings that used these
      terms on a regular basis.  Typically, "deaf" is coined "little
      d deaf", while "Deaf" is coined "big (or capital) D deaf".
      That deliniation is clearcut and obviously necessary
      during discussion of those persons who are simply
      phisiologically deaf versus those who are culturally deaf.

      I still have not yet figured out how to pronounce the term
      "d/Deaf" accurately.  I have had some success by voicing
      "dee deaf", but realize that this is by no means a standard.
      Suggestions, anyone?

> Perhaps we should require the capital "Deaf" to be shouted vigorously
> In other words, making a big fuss over labels tells hearing people
> that being deaf is so NOT RIGHT that the deaf will twist themselves
> into pretzels trying to escape from being reminded their ears
> don't work. Fussing over labels does NOTHING to raise the awareness
> of the society at large that deaf people "can do everything except hear."
>
> There are positive things to do to SHOW society that deaf people
> are capable of living happy, satisfying, fulfilling lives, and that
> is to LIVE such lives. No whining allowed.
>
      Good point.  Well presented.  Nice ending       ;-)
======================================================================
   Dave Windley,                       Catonsville Community College
      Data Communications Specialist          800 South Rolling Road
      Sign Interpreter                     CATONSVILLE MD 21228-9987
      GLBO Co-Founder                          Voice: (410) 455-4799
      ITR Club Vice President                             AADW@CATCC
======================================================================
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1992 20:57:11 CST
From:         Roy Miller <GE0013@SIUCVMB.BITNET>
Subject:      Poll Results Regarding Terminology

When the terminology discussion was in full tilt a couple of weeks ago,
I offered to take a mini-poll regarding viewers thoughts about a
variety of descriptors, such as deaf, hard-of-hearing, hearing impaired,
and so forth.  I have a feeling that some people on the list misinterpreted
my intentions with respect to that mini-poll.  It certainly was not my
intention to conduct the poll and then present the "answer" as to what's
the best term to use.  Nor was it my intention to take a vote and then
after that everyone would be told they had to do what the majority thought
was preferable.  Rather, my offer was to conduct a mini-poll of the
opinions held by readers here on DEAF-l (nothing more).

Well, I asked people to send me their thoughts by September 1st and
the bewitching hour is fastly approaching.  Accordingly, I thought I
would let everyone know that I received a total of two (2) responses
to my poll, and given the extremely limited response I will not
bother to share the substance of those responses.  Suffice it to say
(as one might have expected), the two respondents did not agree any
more than the few discussants here on DEAF-L earlier.

-- Roy Miller   (ge0013@siucvmb.siu.edu)
   Creator and Owner of DEAF-L
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1992 04:28:23 -0400
From:         Miriam Clifford <DMIMI@ECSVAX.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Ear Tags

I agree completely with Bryce that label fussing doesn't raise the awareness
in society about hearing loss or people who are hearing impaired.  However,
it is helpful to have some distinctions within the group.

For example, when someone says to me, "Oh, you are hearing impaired, we'll
get an interpreter for you", I have to say, "Thanks, but that won't help me.
Get an Assistive Listening Device for me and remember to use the mike."
At the same time, my deaf colleague may need to be seated carefull with
full light on his/her face.  Or perhaps and interpreter is needed for him/her.
Or maybe he/she needs a cued speech interpreter.  Or an oral interpreter.
Or maybe all of us could use real time captioning.

My point?  The labels do serve, in however limited a way, to point up some
differing needs and can provide an organizational framework for providing
for those needs.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 11:53:37 EDT
From:         "Tilak Ratnanather" <tratnana@EUREKA-GOLD.WBME.JHU.EDU>
Subject: Re: tongue position
X-To:         DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU

Martin

Why dont you contact University College London Dept of Phonetics
and Linguistics? There is a strong research group in speech
pathology (therapy) and auditory biophysics. Also the Institute
of Laryngology and Otology in Kings Cross.

Regards

Tilak Ratnanather
Tilak Ratnanather
Dept of Otolaryngology -- Head & Neck Surgery
The Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD
E-mail: tratnana@eureka-gold.wbme.jhu.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:48:07 -0700
From:         Vicki Brown <vlb@MAGIC.AUX.APPLE.COM>
Subject:      RE: Sex in Akron?
X-To:         DEAF LIST <DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu>
              01 Sep 92 14:59:47 -0400. <9209011902.AA23700@apple.com>

(Sorry about the subject line.  I couldn't resist)

Joseph P. Riolo <riolo@pica.army.mil> says:
>Esther,
>       Can you tell me which handshape is used for "Akron" and "sex"?

>       I do not know the sign for "Akron" but I can guess that the
>handshape for "Akron" is 'a'.  If I am correct, then, it is much
>different from other handshape 'x' which I used for "sex".  The
>start and end locations and movement for these two words are same,
>though.

OK, now I'm really wondering.  "X" handshape?? The sign I know for the word
glossed as SEX uses a "V" handshape (like the legs of 2 little people... :-)

  Vicki Brown
  A/UX Development Group            Apple Computer, Inc., Cupertino, CA
  Internet: vlb@apple.com           AppleLink: VICKI.BROWN
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via: uk.ac.ulster.upvax; Thu, 3 Sep 1992 09:46:33 +0100
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 09:49:00 BST
From:         DDBT23@UPVAX.ULSTER.AC.UK
Subject:      visual feedback
X-To:         DEAF-L <DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU>

Hi all,

	Thanks for all your help yesterday. I'll look up those books you
suggested. Does anybody have any further suggestions for the further
development for such a device (pitch display, etc)?

	Thanks again

	Martin Powderly

	ddbt23@upvax.ulster.ac.uk

	"Like think it twice but never, never learn"
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 23:29:09 EDT
From:         -- <sipb7@ATHENA.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      "tonal" languages
X-To:         DEAF LIST <DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
              02 Sep 92 11:19:28 +0200. <9209020221.AA21183@Athena.MIT.EDU>

Languages can be divided into two categories: those whose speakers
divide languages into two categories and ... um ... hold on.

Ah, yes.  Languages can be divided into two categories: tonal and
intonational.  English is an intonational language: the pitch of an
English speaker's voice carries syntactic information, such as
whether or not the sentence is a question.

In a tonal language, the pitch of the voice distinguishes words from
each other.  For example, according to my Mandarin-speaking friends,
the Mandarin sentences

 ~    \  V      \ / \  V ~ V
MAMA MA MA and SISISI SISISI

mean "Mother scolded the horses" and "Forty-four dead stone lions",
respectively.  The difference between MA with a falling tone and MA
with a falling and rising tone is as substantial as the difference
between the English "trick" and "truck".  Cantonese has even more
distinct tones than Mandarin.

_Capiche?_

Then there are a slew of West African languages where you have to
learn to pronounce two consonants simultaneously....

--
::: A fundamentalist preacher who can't read Hebrew deserves as much  :::
::: attention as a heart surgeon who has never handled a stethoscope. :::
seth gordon  <sipb7@athena.mit.edu>   . . . these opinions for rent
the learning center for deaf children . . . associate teacher-counselor
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 13:04:12 PDT
From:         Ronald Mitchell <mitch@SSC-VAX.BOEING.COM>
Subject:      Re: work interaction

Annette,

In a long career in industry, I've always worked in totally hearing groups,
most of whose members had never encountered another deaf person.  Some of
the strategies for personal interaction that I currently employ are as follows:
I got my present supervisor to schedule biweekly group meetings at which an
ASL interpreter would be present.  Previously, the meetings had been "as
needed" which made scheduling an interpreter impossible.  Without an
interpreter, I get the announcements, etc but miss the informal give and
take that really matters.  I also induced the group to establish a "day
file" on the computer mail system.  Each member contributes a daily item
about his (all guys here) activity to a focal point and this person
concatenates the notes and mails them to everyone by next morning.  In
addition to work stuff the day file contains personal notes ("on impulse, I
took a plane to San Francisco on Saturday and asked Anne Barstow to marry
me.  To my amazement she said 'Yes'").   Like you, I do pretty well in one
on one situations but, frankly, I'm a little too intense and preoccupied
most of the time to indulge in chit chat.  That's ok except I might miss
something really important.  Years ago, the guy at the next desk lost a
child under tragic circumstances that were reported in the local papers
without names.  Everyone in the group knew about it except me until my
supervisor brought it up during a performance review in which he compared
this guy's loss to my handicap!  I didn't work for him much longer but ever
since I have made a point of telling my supervisors that if anything really
big is happening with a co-worker and its generally known, then it's *his*
duty to let me know.

Hope this helps.

 |\/\/\/|	 Ronald Mitchell              mitch@ssc-vax.ds.boeing.com
 |      |        Principal Engineer            ..uw-beaver!ssc-vax!mitch
 |      |        P.O. Box 3999, M/S 9E-KH       -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
 | (o)(o)        Seattle, WA  98124  USA           (206)57-8059 TDD
C      _)    	
 | ,___|-                                      ___ ___ ___ ___     ___
  |   /       	"Don't Have a Cow!"           /__//  //__  /  /\ //  _
 /____\    	                             /__//__//__ _/_ /  //__/
/      \      	                               Defense & Space Group
		
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:45:30 EDT
From:         -- <sipb7@ATHENA.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      Korea
X-To:         DEAF LIST <DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
              27 Aug 92 10:52:50 +0200. <9208270159.AA13016@Athena.MIT.EDU>

    Yong Che  <yckim@sorak.kaist.ac.kr>

If I'm not mistaken, ".kr" is the code for "Korea".  So I have a few
questions for Yong Che:

(1) Are you posting from Korea?

(2) If so, is Korean a "tonal" language, like Chinese, Japanese, and
    Vietnamese?

(3) How the hell does *anyone* born deaf learn to speechread a tonal language?

Curiously yours,
--
::: A fundamentalist preacher who can't read Hebrew deserves as much  :::
::: attention as a heart surgeon who has never handled a stethoscope. :::
seth gordon  <sipb7@athena.mit.edu>   . . . these opinions for rent
the learning center for deaf children . . . associate teacher-counselor
From: garvey@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (Heather Garvey)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: Ear Tags
Date: 1 Sep 1992 21:39:26 GMT
Organization: Smith Undergrad Lab, CWRU, Cleve. OH
NNTP-Posting-Host: colima.scl.cwru.edu
X-Post-Machine: colima.scl.cwru.edu

91babik@gw.wmich.edu (Lisamarie Gemma Babik) writes:
>
>That paragraph I quoted above was right on the money, too.  I just went to 
>my 5 year class reunion.  I didn't start wearing hearing aids until I 
>started college (just about 5 years ago).  When we got to talking about 
>college and such and I was asked why I still had so long to go until I
>graduate from college (2 more years!) I told them I had to change my major
>out of music because my hearing was deteriorating at a furious pace.  They 
>thought that losing my hearing was just the worst thing in the entire 
>world!  They seemed shocked that it didn't think it was such a terrible
>thing.  

	Let me see if I get this straight:
	You love music enough to major in it in college (not an easy
thing!) but, because you became deaf, you can no longer hear music/
play music, etc. and you think they shouldn't feel any sympathy?!?!?!?

	Jeez! If I couldn't hear music anymore, I'd go bonkers! 
I wouldn't be afraid of the social stigma or communication (I already
know some sign and pick up languages quickly anyways.). I would 
hate to no longer have music! And I'm just a biochemist, not a 
(serious) musician. 

	So if a singer friend of your got throat cancer and would never
be able to sing again, you'd just shrug it off and not think this was
a terrible thing to have happened to her?!?!?!?!?
	Admittedly, her LIFE isn't over, but it's still a tragic 
thing to have happen. 

--
	" ...dealing with Free-Net makes me very angry  | Heather "Moose"
and gives me thoughts of breaking things and torturing  | Garvey, Biochem 93'
small animals. "   --  Bruce Ikenaga <bxi@po.cwru.edu>  | <hlg@po.cwru.edu>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU