From: gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Alliance for a Paving Moratorium (Alert)
Distribution: world
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 05:42:09 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <1992Dec30.161028.21215@pbhye.PacBell.COM> mjvande@PacBell.COM writes:

 > I see. Your real beef is that an outsider can see through you, & may even
 > know more about your problems than you. So you have to ignore what they
 > say....

No, my real beef is that on the unfounded presumption that you know
more about our problems than we do, you seek to disempower us from
addressing our own problems in our own way. Even if you do by chance
have more knowledge about someone else's condition than they do, who
the hell are you to go and take over their lives?

What is an absolute certainty is that you do not know, and cannot
possibly know, everything about everyone's problems, and your pretense
is so shallow and pathetic I simply find it unbelievable. You are a
total, strutting, grandiose paranoid.

Live your own life, pal. If I feel you have something to offer from
which I might benefit, please rest assured that as I shop around I
will have a look at your extracts. But as I have mentioned before, we
have the world to shop in so your product or service had better be of
international standard in order to even be short-listed.

 > To say nothing of the deforestation promoted by the Australian government,
 > in preference to cattle & sheep.

Yes indeed, arising from the post-war program of "reconstruction" the
effects of which we are now desperate trying to counter. But again that
is our problem, not yours.

 > Only your aborigines, as far as I can see, ever practiced sustainable
 > living practices. Is that what you want to go back to? Or the deforestation
 > agriculture brought from England?

I'll ignore this preposterous crap, which demonstrates your profound
ignorance of what is going on here in this country.

 > As a matter of fact, I spent a day with Keith Bradby (sp?), seeing the
 > problems your agriculture has wrought, such as fertilizer runoff &
 > salinization. You CHOSE to be auto-dependent. Other people choose not to
 > be.

Yes, Keith coordinates the Community Catchment Centre at Pinjarra just
South of here. But I fail to see what 100 years of nutrient pollution
of water catchments has to do with our driving cars, which we do since
here we can afford them and derive a clear (quite substantial in fact)
economic benefit from doing so.

 > How long did it take Peter & friends to replace highway plans (to destroy
 > Fremantle's center) with light rail? Which side were you on???

Sorry, the program to rebuild the badly run down rail system closed by
the previous coalition government in favour of freeway development was
reversed by the current Labor Government democratically elected by the
people, *not* imposed by any one academic and his disciples. I am not
on anyone's "side" as you put it, and it is high time you just stopped
seeing yourself at war with me since I made so bold as to query the
unsubstantiated material you post here.

The program to renovate Fremantle (which was becoming a run-down slum
area backing the port facilities there) was stimulated and largely
financed by the momentum generated by Alan Bond's Royal Perth Yacht
Club syndicate having won the America's Cup in 1983. The challenge was
raced off Fremantle, on Gage Roads, in 1987 lest you fail to recall,
and Fremantle was the host city accomodating international visitors.

All the major redevelopment was completed by then, with only a normal
level of renovation taking place since then as part of the overall
State Development strategy we have in place.

 > Thanks. He probably doesn't squander his energy fighting off influxes
 > of (horrors) new ideas.

*NEW* ideas? From where? You really have me tossed completely, pal.

We already have our own development schedule based on our own research
and planning well advanced. In fact it is Australians who are right now
exporting the relevant technologies and intellectual properties to Los
Angeles as they choose through *their* own democratic processes to
implement them. I would guarantee they are sensibly shopping around
themselves like any competent administration, and make their final
decisions on that basis, as we have imported the light rail technology
itself from Europe.

Perhaps that's your game is it? Jumping on our band wagon to build
yourself a career by fraudulently representing "new" ideas developed
somewhere else as your own, merely citing one single individual as the
source as if he were your own colleague. Sorry to have to expose you,
but the developments here are community-based, and take so much time
because of the lengthy public consultations we go through.

You might like to read out to the audience here some of Keith Bradby's
papers on the issue of public participation and adequate consultation
if you really want to be honest and open in pursuing your agenda. Do
rest assured that you will *not* be receiving the relevant cabinet
submissions of mine for propagation under your banner.

You are just full of hopeless shit. You do no service to us whatsoever.

Gil

Newsgroups: sci.environment