HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: k33074s@kaira.hut.fi (Micke Bergman)
Subject: Re: Do SPOILERS Really Work??? no.
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 17:51:42 GMT

''''''''''' Does spoilers work ?
>
>Simply put : No.
>
>The rear spoilers and wings on today's sport models are for looks (and they
>do look pretty cool).
>As far as performance goes they actually increase drag at high speed.
>Little if any downforce is generated by these devices.
>

A small rear spoiler actually decreases both drag and lift. Making the spoiler
bigger will increase drag and still decrease lift (rear).
The result is car dependent so any exact figures can't be given.
A good book about the subject is 'Aerodynamics of road vehicles' by Hucho.


>To get an idea of the type of rear spoiler that *does* work look at some
>designs used for NASCAR and stock car races, these spoilers are raked at
>about 45 degrees and are typically at least 8 inches tall. At 100+ mph this
>spoiler will generate downforce.
>

By proper design a 10 * 40 in rear wing can provide about 200 lbs of downforce
and cause 4 hp of drag at 100 mph. By reducing the wing angle the figures are
50 lbs and 1 hp LESS drag at 100 mph.


>Wings have to be designed with enough surface area to generate a negative lift
>force. Imagine an airplane with narrow wings, it will never generate enough 
>lift to get off the ground.  Again looking to racing : dragsters, sprint
>cars and formula cars, the wings are quite large. This is true despite the
>very high speeds available to generate downforce easily.
>
The key word is DESIGNed


>However,
>
>for the street front spoilers & wind dams are very effective devices at normal
>highway speeds. Instead of generating downforce directly they produce the effect
>by limiting the amount of air that can pass under the car. 
> 
True. Front dams are helpful (they increase lift at rear wheels though).

To get the best results careful planning is required and some test either
in a wind tunnel or on road or track.

>
>$0.02
>Ericy
>
>      *---------------------------------+---------------------------*
>      | Eric Youngblood                                             |
>      | Bell-Northern Research    _                                 |
>      | Richardson, Texas 75082 _| ~-                               |
>      |                         \,  _}                              |
>      |                           \(    +---------------------------|
>      |                                 |   Peon w/o Email privs    |
>      *---------------------------------+---------------------------*

Micke






Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
From: ravalent@mothra.syr.EDU (Bob Valentine)
Subject: Re: Problems with washing underbody
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 14:43:37 EST

In article <Byz3u3.4rD@news.cso.uiuc.edu> bsmg9810@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Bhaskar S.Manda) writes:
>
>I think any moron realises the difference. Obviously when you spary 
>wash you'll use water under pressure to clean away any mud, etc. you
>come across. When you drive through a puddle, the water at high velocity
>hit the mudguards and wheel well first and may not enter areas normally
>protected by caps, boots, etc. For example it won't enter brake drums
>given short exposure.
>So my question still stands.
>Thank you,
>Bhaskar(@orion.me.uiuc.edu)
>
>P.S : I think catalytic converters are normally placed to avoid
>exposure to such conditons or shielded somehow, but what if you deliberately
>hosed it ?
>P.P.S : My motorcycle manual advices waiting for the brake linings
>to dry (drum brake) after a wash, I think that's relevant for any drum brake.
>

   Living in Syracuse, land of salt with bromide added, I've never had
a problem washing the underside of the car.  Sure, the first few stops
after a good wash were a little wet on the brakes, but no biggie. CV
joints and the like are protected by rubber boots.  Most cats are 
just sheet metal, so they won't crack.  They are not placed anywhere 
special. 
   Hitting a cast iron exhaust manifold with cold water right affter
it has had a 15 mile road trip to the car wash could cause it to
crack.  Exhaust pipes and the like will not break, unless of course,
they are already swiss-cheese from 2 years of road salt.

   I'm assuming you are using the standard DIY car wash pressure
washers.  Using the commericial, >3000 psi units MIGHT be able to
damage something, but it is still doubtful that it would.

________________________________________________________________________
\ The name:            -->   Bob Valentine  <--                        /
/ The address:      --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <--                   \ 
\                                                                      /
/ The ride: --> 71 Olds Cutlass Convertible: 350/T400/Posi (soon!) <-- \
\______________________________________________________________________/    
    
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: wesf@boi.hp.com (Wes Fujii)
Subject: Emblems, names and meanings...
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:50:26 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]


I was just curious where some of the emblems and names from the
different manufacturer's come from (Ford is pretty obvious).
In these days of "customer recognition" I'm sure that much
attention is paid to these cosmetic details. 

Also, how often are the styles updated or changed?  Examples:

     Toyota used to just say "TOYOTA" and now they have an emblem
     (looks like a silly cattle brand to me).

     Oldsmobile went from a block style from way back, to a script
     style in the '70s, then to a fairly plain type now.  Plus,
     have they gotten rid of the Oldsmobile Rocket emblem?  I
     haven't realy noticed the emblems on their new cars although
     I haven't looked very close lately (doesn't really matter
     since they don't make "rockets" anymore anyway)
     
Just wondering.

Wes Fujii
________________________________________________________________
      ___   ___ ___ 
     /  /  /  //  /
    /  /__/  //  /    A real motor is an Oldsmobile Rocket 455
   /  HURST //  /     "This is NOT the new generation of Olds"
  /  /  /  //  /_______ 
 /__/  /__//  //  ___  \
          /  //  /   \  \       Wes "BANZAI" Fujii
         /  //  /OLDS/  /          Boise, Idaho
        /  / \  \___/  /      wesf@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
       /__/   \_______/
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Is Japan being fair ? (1/2)
Date: 11 Dec 92 21:25:09 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA

>In article <420026@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com> tonyz@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Tony Zugates) writes:
>>This probably isnt something we want to read here, its too long anyway...
>>but, then again, it does have to do with the auto industry....
>
>>If we cant take the heat, we can always immigrate to a COMMUNIST
>>nation, cant we?  
>
In article <1992Dec8.211305.17464@rtsg.mot.com> pacyga@rtsg.mot.com (Jim Pacyga) writes:

>I think you mean emigrate to communist country.  


   It depends,...was the original posting from anywhere near
   Santa Monica?   
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: feinberg@icd.teradyne.com (Mike)
Subject: Re: Four wheel drive Autos
Reply-To: feinberg@icd.teradyne.com
Organization: Teradyne, Inc. Boston MA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:20:46 GMT

In article J9@news.cso.uiuc.edu, mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Real Life?!?! HA!!) writes:
>morton@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Brent Morton) writes:
>
>>In article <1gj56rINNkm0@uwm.edu> qazi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Aamir Hafeez Qazi) writes:
>>>In article <92349.151334CJOHNSON@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> <CJOHNSON@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
>>>>We are thinking of selling our 4 x 4 truck, and Prelude Honda auto. And buying
>>>>a full time Four wheel Drive auto,some thing that is sporty and rides nice
>>>>but has four wheel drive. What we want to know is who makes such a car. I think
>>>>Audi does who else.
>>>
>>>--Subaru makes the Legacy Sports Sedan and Touring Wagon.  These are the high
>>>
>>>--Even better is the Subaru SVX, a two-door GT coupe.  It is Subaru's
>>>
>>>--The Mercedes 300E is another choice, if you want to spend $50K, but the  
>>>  Audi V8 4.2 or the Audi S4 is a better bet for that kind of money.
>
>>Aamir's recommendations are excellent. I might also add that the Legacy is
>>available with an unblown 130 bhp variant of the flat four.
>
>>Were you to shop in Canada, the BMW 325iX and Volkswagen Passat syncro G60
>>would also meet your criteria.
>
>Don't forget the Mitsu Eclipse/Eagle Talon/Plymouth Laser.  I can't speak for
>the ride quality on these cars, having never driven one, but I hear nothing
>but good reports on the performance and fun scale.


From my own experience: I did 11K miles last august in Subary Legacy and was 
very comfortable all the from Boston-DC-Atlanta-NewOrleans-Dallas-SantaFe-LA-
Rt1-Seatle-YellowStone-Boston. Mitsu Eclipse, on the other hand, is a bit more 
sporty (if you get a turbo 4wd model) but I can hardly make a trip from Boston
to Vermont (120 miles) without backcramps. I am 6'2'' and swim for the last 8 
year - the car just does not have enough leg and shoulder room for me. 

---
 ___________________________________________________________________________
|                                                                           |
|  If you didn't want to push yourself, you would've joined basketball team. |
|                                                                           |
|  - Why there are no sharks in the pool?          ---------- __o           |
|  - Masters ate them.                             -------- _`\<,           |
|                                                  ------- (*)/(*)          |
|  Internet:  feinberg@topaz.icd.teradyne.com                               |
|___________________________________________________________________________|

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jrs@cbnews.cb.att.com (jeff.sherota)
Subject: Re: Tire Rack
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 04:58:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.005323.22892@hspice.portal.com> georgew@hspice.portal.com (George J Wu) writes:
>-
>     I recently ordered a set of tires and rims from the Tire Rack, a mail
>order outfit.  Since alot of folks on the net recommended them to me, I
>thought I'd relate my experience.  Overall, I'm pretty happy, but I do have a
>couple of complaints.

One positive thing about the Tire Rack, at least they know how to mount
tires without scratching the rims.  This is more than I can say about
many tire places (even though they have the right equipment).

				Jeff
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: morton@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Brent Morton)
Subject: Re: Four wheel drive Autos
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 04:02:25 GMT

In article <1gm3sgINN8s8@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:
>
>In a previous article, cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Slartibartfast) says:
>[lotsa cars deleted]
>
>>	Also the Stealth/3000GT have 4wd versions and VW has synchro versions
>                                                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>of its cars.  
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ but, sadly, not in the US, do they??(i dunno..just curious
>for my own sake, as much as the orig. poster's, as i do not know where he
>is from)

The Volkswagen Passat syncro G60 has been available in Canada since fall 1991,
and represents good value for the money, in my opinion. They've sold
reasonably well, I understand, despite the relatively high price -- it's easy
to run the price to over CDN$30 000 (US$23 255) when adding options. I suspect
this is a big reason why VWoA didn't import the syncro to the States, not to
mention that because of the warmer American climate, sales volumes would be
quite low. Not worth it.

-- Brent
morton@artifis.gaul.csd.uwo.ca

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Slartibartfast)
Subject: Re: Emblems, names and meanings...
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 04:21:27 GMT

In article <JTCHEW-181292085436@b50-afrd4.lbl.gov> JTCHEW@lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera) writes:
>> The Japanese logos are all SO unimaginative:  I think Subaru and Mazda are the
>> only two that have any badge other than the first initial of the company.  
>
>Mitsubishi uses three diamonds on most or all of its products, from cars to
>consumer electronics.  I forget what they are supposed to symbolize, but 
>they have some meaning, or at least one was retrofitted by an ad agency. 
>
	
	The Mitsubishi name means "Three Diamonds" in Japaneese, hence the logo.

>Joe
>Founder and sole member, Coalition to Bring Back the Olds Hood Rocket

	What are the membership requirements, I think it is one of the most
tasteful logos, unless it is a hood ornament...


-- 
 Chintan Amin  The University of Illinois, Urbana Champaign  c-amin1@uiuc.edu
  "Public speaking is very easy!" <-- Quayle 10/88  ;-)
  "Unfortunately, the people of Louisiana are not racists" <-- Quayle, 10/12/90
NeXTMail Accepted at cka52397@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu  Go Illini Holiday Bowl 1992
From: keys@starchild.ncsl.nist.gov (Lawrence B. Keys)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: vw oil filter
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:46:00 GMT
Organization: National Institute of Standards & Technology


When i change my oil, i place the old oil in a 1 gallon milk jug, and
drop it off at the local Amoco gas station. No spills, no mess and
i doesn't cost anything either!
                                                  .  
                                                 /                
Larry                            __/    _______/_                 
keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov       /                  \               
                          _____     __     _____    \------- ===
            ----------- / ____/   /  /   /__  __/              \
         /     ___    /  / ___   /  /      / /    ____          |
        |    /      \/ /__ /  | /  /__  __/ /__ /       \      / 
        /___         \_______/ /_____/ /______/            ====OO
            \       /                           \       /         
                -                                   -
       ---------------- FAHRVERGNUGEN FOREVER! --------------------            
            The fact that I need to explain it to you indicates
            that you probably wouldn't understand anyway!
       ------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
From: rrusk@ssd.csd.harris.com (Bob Rusk)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: '71 Super Beetle, Revisited
Date: 11 Dec 92 17:54:24 GMT
	<1992Dec09.161858.1835@microsoft.com>
	<1992Dec11.135416.24395@b30.ingr.com>
Reply-To: rrusk@ssd.csd.harris.com
Organization: Harris Computer Systems Division

On Fri, 11 Dec 1992 13:54:16 GMT, dlbradle@jhawk.b30.ingr.com (Doug Bradley) wrote:

>In article <1992Dec09.161858.1835@microsoft.com>, laurahal@microsoft.com (Laura Halliday) writes:

>|> A VW transaxle with so few miles on it should still have good synchromesh.
>|> Find out why. My '71 Super had no synchromesh on 2nd and was indifferent
>|> on all the others, but it had a lot more miles on it...
>|> 
>  As someone else pointed out, this is by far the most serious concern.

It might be worth checking out the linkage.  A '78 Bus that I came close
to buying last Summer had been sitting, and the linkage was so stiff that
the synchro's couldn't do their job.  After freeing the linkage up,
all shifts were fine.  A Bug's linkage is vague, but should be smooth
and have very little friction.

--
 Bob Rusk
 rrusk@ssd.csd.harris.com
 My thoughts, probably not Harris'.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
From: shap5535@mach1.wlu.ca (Jason Shapiro u)
Subject: VW on LSD!?!?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 02:02:40 GMT


   A FEW WORDS ABOUT THE A3 CHASIS
   -------------------------------

   Well I just saw my first REAL WORLD A3 Golf. I'd seen them before in pictures
etc. but this time I was driving into Toronto on the 401, and BAM!! there was
a bright red, 4 door Golf, and man was it UGLY! 

   Now, don't get me wrong, I REALLY feel bad for saying this, I have an '86
GTI (200k, Yay GTI!!), and I was really looking forward to the A3's but they 
just don't do it for me. I mean the rear tail-lights are too small in proportionto the rest of the body, the front is nice but is it just me, or do the sides
have just one or two too many curves in them??

  Oh I don't know, I really wanted a VR6 Golf (now that the GTI is all but dead
(No mention of how in my mind it died in '90 when they went to standard euro
across the board, achem), but now I guess I'll have to wait for the first 
person to figure out how to shoehorn a VR6 into an A2 chasis. How about a rewardof a big smiley :-) for the first person to do it??


  I guess I'll just have to hope that my '86 will last until the A4's!!?



		Jason.

PS-GTI update.... 202k ooops!

		-NEW clutch, front brakes, front struts, rotor cap & wires
		-NEW valve lifter

  $1500 (Canadian)  Yay GTI!???  Oh but you should hear her run now!!

Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
From: tomevans@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (tomevans@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com)
Subject: Parking Brake
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 21:20:35 GMT
Organization: TCP/IP Development
Keywords: Brake

Help!,
My parking brake broke, refuses to lock, I think I broke a spring or something
inside  (the button doesn't feel right), I pulled off the plastic cover, but	
couldn't figure out how to take apart the handle portion. Has anyone any helpful
hints?? If its easy, I'll give it a try, else probably add to list for VW dealer
when I take my 87 golf for the heater core recall. BTW, for the recall, what
expenses if any do I pay for (i.e labor?), and is there a time limit on the 	
recall? I got the initial letter notifying me of the recall but never got the 
follow up letter to tell me when parts would be available.
Thanks for any info...
-- 
Tom Evans  TCP/IP Development
TOMEVANS@RALVMM.VNET.IBM.COM; (919) 254-4097
From: dv0o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Doug vanderVeen)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: (Air) Acceleration in spurts
Date: 14 Dec 92 16:48:35 GMT
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Joshua LaGrange writes about spurting acceleration.

Whenever I have this problem on my Fastback I know it's time to adjust
the valves.  It always works.  Remember the fudamentals of internal
combustion are 1. compression 2. ignition 3. air/fuel.  In that order.  

DvdV
From: mwsn_ss@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (HighDecibelsCanBeFun!)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
Subject: Re: [A] Beetle does Herbie Impression
Date: 15 Dec 92 04:51:40 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

In article <1992Dec14.115202.12843@cs.nott.ac.uk> cczcole@unicorn.nott.ac.uk (Marlon Cole) writes:
>Dear all,
[tale of highbeams a'flashing deleted]

My bug started to do this for a while during the summer. On my Bug, when you 
take off the steering wheel, there are four long screws that hold down the 
turn signal/ high beam mechanism. Mine was missing a screw, so whenever I 
went to signal left, the signal would go on, and as well, the highbeams would
flip on or off, depending on how they already were. Sometimes, they would do
the flashing you describe, so maybe you're just missing a screw or two?
Can't hurt to check...Hope it helps.
Bye all!
Matt.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
From: morton@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Brent Morton)
Subject: Re: VW on LSD!?!?
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 17:11:46 GMT

In article <1h1et8INNl4o@aludra.usc.edu> mferdows@aludra.usc.edu (Mehrzad Ferdows) writes:
>
>>In article <BzJCCG.HCp@mach1.wlu.ca> shap5535@mach1.wlu.ca (Jason Shapiro u) writes:
>>>Well I just saw my first REAL WORLD A3 Golf. I'd seen them before in pictures
>>>etc. but this time I was driving into Toronto on the 401, and BAM!! there was
>>>a bright red, 4 door Golf, and man was it UGLY! 
>
>the whole reason why I like the A2 bodies is because they have kept their old 
>styles. I HATE the new looks that cars are taking these day, a few more years
>and cars are just going to be completely round.... Thats why I dont like
>the new golfs.. look too much like the new civics (yeuch!). 

I have to admit that I, too, think that the 1985-1992 Golf was better-looking
in some respects than the new Golf. However, the car was in dire need of an
interior redesign, and updated mechanicals were needed. Volkswagen really
HAD to do something about the Jetta to stay competitive, and they could hardly
give us the new Jetta and leave the old Golf!

Remember that Honda's product cycle is four years -- the A2 cars came out in
the second year of a Civic cycle, and since then the Civic has been redesigned
twice, while the Golf/Jetta has stayed more or less the same. Obviously the
Golf has sold extremely well in some areas of the world (Europe), but it's
time to move on!

-- Brent
morton@artifis.gaul.csd.uwo.ca

Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
From: schrader@pi.eai.iastate.edu (Dave Schrader)
Subject: ONE GROUP
Organization: Engineering Animation, Inc.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 02:17:29 GMT

Not many words required, I favor keeping this one group.


-- 
                          Dave Schrader
                          schrader@eai.iastate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
From: ereddy@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Ed Reddy)
Subject: Re: motor mount problems
Keywords: deutsche wertarbeit ?!@#
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 05:58:01 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.175248.10200@athena.mit.edu> janson@athena.mit.edu (james anderson) writes:
>vw gurus:
>
>
>how many of you have had problems with your 
>motor mounts? again an '86 gti.
>(lots deleted0
>james.
>
Motor Mounts? Mine went in my 85 JettaGL. And this seems to be a
consistant problem, like the heater cores before the recall,
transmissions, and lifters wearing easily.

|------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Ed Redddy				"To get back on your feet  |
| ereddy@morgan.ucs.mun.ca              just miss two car payments"|
| Memorial University			    - Anonymous            |
| of Newfoundland      						   |
|------------------------------------------------------------------|
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
From: BARANSKI@veamf1.nusc.navy.mil (Jim Baranski)
Subject: [A] VW Restorers?
Organization: Naval Underwater Sound Center, New London CT
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 20:46:06 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

Are there many people who commercially restore Air Cooled VW's?

I was an Ad in HVW for a guy in Washington, but that's clear across the country
from me.  Hopefully there is one closer...

Jim.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw
From: calypso@stein.u.washington.edu (Kent Shih)
Subject: Re: K&N air filter - Quicky question
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:53:29 GMT

andrei@namao.uucp (Andrei Chichak) writes:

>I would suggest the K&N route....BUT....it sounds like you're fixing the
>symptom.   Might I suggest a can of Forte' oil treatment, it sounds like
>your rings are gummed up.   Considering that these engines are not known
>for cylinder wear and they do have forged pistons straight out of the
>box, I would say the rings are carboned up or you have revved the shit out
>of the engine for far too many nanoseconds.   Our '83 GTi has ~200,000Km
>and it is not pampered and it blows no oil.

     What's so special about K&N filters?  I read in the FAQ that they
     actually help the performance..... why?