HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cerebus@ucrmath.ucr.edu (edward tyrrill)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Talking about problems
Date: 29 Jul 92 05:41:55 GMT
Organization: University of California, Riverside

Hi All.  I went into my new job to fill out some paperwork today.  I met
a few people.  The receptionist in the lobby was quite friendly.  Maybe
too friendly.  But I don't know.  We were chatting while I was waiting
for the lady from personell to come out, and she just started telling me
how her daughter had brought her flowers because her fiance had told her
that he had had a heart attack because he was under too much stress.  And
that he either had to quit his job or end thier relationship.  And he
"couldn't" quit his job.

It just struck me as rather wierd that someone would be telling me all
this after knowing me for all of two minutes.  I can definitely understand
the need to talk about something like this.  I just question her choice of
me.  Another part of me thinks that it's just because I and most people
I've known in my life tend to hold things in that this seemed so wierd
to me.  I have trouble trusting people, but she might do it very easily.

I guess this bothered me enough to post about it because I have the trouble
talking about personal stuff, and seeing her talk so freely was rather
unsettling for me.  I had trouble just expressing my feelings about what
she said.  But I noticed I was having trouble, and made myself do it.
Certainly an improvement from where I used to be.  I just had this wonderfully
simple idea that might just answer my question of why she chose to tell
me about her fiance.  I could simply ask her why she did it.  So simple
I feel stupid, and I don't think out of line based on the nature of it all.
Anyone out there have anything to add?


-- 
                            ___
Ed Tyrrill                 / | \     The "War on Drugs" is a war on *people*
cerebus@ucrmath.ucr.edu    \/_\/          Don't apply YOUR morals to ME
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: Susan R Pence <srpence@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: all the time  (Karla M. Alwan)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 23:22:12 GMT

  Karla writes:
>> Anyone else get times where they talk about it (or think about it) ALL the
>>time?

Yes ma'am! Like the past three weeks especially. Seems like I'm dealing with
new stuff at a record pace. My having someone to talk about it with never seems
to match the great need to TALK. I've been e-mailing, but I'm at a point where
I can't type it fast enough and I want feedback RIGHT NOW! When I talk to
someone other than a survivor (my counselor's a survivor!) I feel like they
have NO IDEA how much is inside me and how much I need to talk. But then again
when I think about how long it's been stuffed....relatively speaking I'm not
really talking so much, it's just that I've got a few (34) years of backlog!;)

                                       Susan
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Subject: Re: "except at night"
Reply-To: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 18:05:55 GMT


In a previous article, erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) says:

>bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan) writes:
>
>: anyone care to join me?   Any ideas on how to start making
>: at least small controbutions?
>
>Perhaps an approach that might work is the one taken by MADD.

what exactly is that aproach... I am not all that familiar with
it.

>-- 
>Ed Carp, N7EKG		erc@apple.com	<-- preferred email address!
>"In wildness is the preservation of the world."  - Henry David Thoreau
>** Member, Linux port team - uucp division ** :)   801/269-8125
>

-- 
|alwan573@pirates.armstrong.edu   <=== USE THIS ONE!          
|Karla.Alwan@lambada.oit.unc.edu             |
|ng548@dsom_op.pnl.gov                       |
|bu850@cwns16.ins.cwru.edu                   |
From: larry@bradley.bradley.edu (L. D. Stratton)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: paranoia/fear
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:17:52 GMT
Organization: Bradley University


   The feelings of paranoia and fear are very real for me.  I was
   sexually abused by my father and gang-raped in high school.  To
   this day (many years later) I am inordinately fearful of any
   man touching me.  Even shaking hands was a problem for several
   years but I'm now past that.  Now, if I instigate the touching,
   I'm in control and it is OK but if someone else instigates the
   touching, especially if I'm not expecting it, every muscle in 
   my body tightens.

   I think the paranoia discussed in this group previously was more
   connected with a sense of guilt or shame.  I don't have that but
   I certainly can relate to the emotions of fear and defensive
   posturing.
From: Bede_Jarrow@hikssrv.lib.purdue.edu (Lisa)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: where I am now
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:22:52 GMT
Reply-To: Bede_Jarrow@hikssrv.lib.purdue.edu (Lisa)

I'm feeling a lot of guilt and anger and an intense need to write about it.  I
wrote a lot in my journal and called someone from the net yest.  I wish I could
forgive myself for not wanting or feeling able to be there for Shari.  I feel
like the world's most horrible person and my therapist has been supporting that
attitude, in my view.  I see her for the last time tomorrow.  I'm not even sure
if I want to discuss the Shari thing with her; she has so many blinders (my
theapist I mean) and seems unwilling to understand my point of view.

I guess I'm just burnt out.

I hate moving.  I hate disorientation.  I ahte goodbyes.  I hate the economy
and insruance agents who are just out to make a buck and don't give a shit
about people's health needs (I met with one yest.).  I just want to make my way
in this world.  My illness is not my fault, and it's not my fault either that
the econ. is so bad.  Will someone out there please give me a chance?

Well, I need to go now but I'll write more later.  God, I'll miss this group.

Lisa
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: cerebus@ucrmath.ucr.edu (edward tyrrill)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Changing Jobs and Life
Date: 21 Jul 92 22:38:03 GMT
Organization: University of California, Riverside

I'm headed off to Washinton D.C. tommorrow to meet the guy who is very likely
to soon be my new boss.  What I've been feeling in the last couple days though
is not fear of the change.  I'm very much looking forward to that.  There are
a lot of special people there who I will miss.  I kinda said goodbyes today
though I know I'll see everyone next week after I get back from D.C.

I also had my last session with my counselor today.  On the recovery front
I think I feel better now than I ever have before.  I've used the last couple
weeks to resolve many things and put everything in perspective.  My counselor
thinks that I've dealt with all the abuse specific issues now, and that
most of the issues I have left to resolve are common to most people to one
degree or another (just a bit more for me).  I, however, have these nagging
doubts telling me I'm not really healed.  But I keep seeing more and more
positive changes in me.  It's just never enough or fast enough to satisfy
me though.  I want to be healed yesterday!  (don't we all?)

She also said that it's always wonderful to have clients like me who really
work at healing, and who have so much positive growth.  All the positive
stuff she said certainly made me feel good.  Though I have trouble accepting
compliments like that.  I've had a hard enough time getting used to
compliments on my looks, but the compliments about person are still hard to
accept.

In preperation for leaving therapy for a while I went out and bought a
couple books, and brought them in to show my counselor.  She said that one
of them was really good, and marked off a few more for me to get in it's
bibliography.  Right now I feel that just reading and processing stuff on
my own will be good for me.  I really don't want to leave therapy at this
time, but I don't really have a choice.  I think it's more fear of being on
my own more than me actually needing to be in therapy.  (One of the books
I bought is _Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway_.  Just reading the title I knew
this book was written for me).

So if all goes well I will come back from D.C. with a job.  I'll certainly
let everyone know how it goes.


-- 
                            ___
Ed Tyrrill                 / | \     The "War on Drugs" is a war on *people*
cerebus@ucrmath.ucr.edu    \/_\/          Don't apply YOUR morals to ME
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Subject: Re: "except at night"
Reply-To: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 20:23:35 GMT


In a previous article, erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) says:

>bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan) writes:
>
>: Pretty neat.  Seems backwards to me though.  My first intution 
>: would be to start at a local level and work up.  Seems
>: like it would be harder to make a national organization fly...
>
>Well, you could always start like you said: at a local level.  Perhaps
>contacting the therapists in your area and pitching the idea to them might be
>a way to start.  Organizing and holding seminars (open to the public, of
>course) with chosen therapists would be to the benefit of both you and them --
>they get the free publicity, you get the draw of a "name".  Make sense?

coool.  sounds good to me!`


>-- 
>Ed Carp, N7EKG		erc@apple.com	<-- preferred email address!
>
>801/      "This is the final task I will ever give you, and  it  goes
>269-      on  forever.   Act  happy,  feel happy, be happy, without a
>

-- 
|alwan573@pirates.armstrong.edu   <=== USE THIS ONE!          
|Karla.Alwan@lambada.oit.unc.edu             |
|ng548@dsom_op.pnl.gov                       |
|bu850@cwns16.ins.cwru.edu                   |
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1160@twwells.com
Subject: asar
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 23:16:47 GMT


I just had a hunge binge and threw up most of it.  WHen I realized I didn't
throw up nearly enough of it but couldn't throw up any more, I started
feeling desperate again.  I cut up my arm again.  Oh shit I can't stop.
I thought maybe if I wrote this it would stop me long enough to make the
feelings go away.  For now.  Sorry I am new and not sure what I am doing,
plus when i am in states like this i really don't know.  sorry.



--
To use this service, send EMAIL to:
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anon-admin@twwells.com -- ANON administrator
anon-0@twwells.com     -- anonymous e-mail to ANON administrator
anon-asar@twwells.com  -- post anonymously to alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bob@reed.edu (Robert Ankeney)
Subject: PBS documentary "Promise Not To Tell"
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:48:33 GMT



     I saw a discouraging documentary last night on PBS called "Promise
Not To Tell".  It told the story of three children in a neighborhood in
Provo Utah that had been sexually molested.  They were in therapy with
a social worker who found out that they had been molested by their
father, and also told of being involved in ritual abuse by 30 or 40
different neighbors in the area.  The mother was told, and the police
were informed.  The police claimed to search the house for items
related to the ritual abuse and said they found none.  The father
passed several polygraph tests.  The children were examined by seven
different therapists, six of whom concurred that they were indeed
abused in the way they said.  One therapist disagreed saying that
although the children had been molested, it was not by their father
and that the best course would be for the family to reunite.  When
the case went to court, the judge ruled the children could only be
in therapy with that one therapist, chosen by the defense lawyer for
the father.  The case was widely publicized in Utah, with the whole
neighborhood siding with the father and saying the children lied.
The trial ended with the father being convicted, the judge imposed
the lightest sentence possible, 10 years probation with treatment
in a sex offenders program.  No program would accept him since he
denied the allegations.  Some therapist agreed to treat him, even
though he was skeptical he could get anywhere with him.
     The mother put the children back in therapy with one of the
six therapists (not the social worker), and was found in contempt
of court and ordered to pay her husband's attorney fees.  Her
husband is appealing the case and is trying to gain visitation
rights.
     Several lawmakers came forth to say they would fight for
stiff penalties for false accusations of child sexual abuse.  In a
poll taken by a TV station, 87% of Utahans agreed this would  be a
good idea.  9% disagreed.  The other 4% were undecided.
     By the end of the program, I felt angry and disheartened.
There was no investigation of the other neighbors who were accused.
Despite the huge growth in the number of people speaking out about
this, people still refuse to hear.  I couldn't help but think there
was a conspiracy between the judge and police to keep this quiet.
What would the rest of the world say if that many people in one
neighborhood of "outstanding" citizens were found to be members of
a Satanic cult abusing children?
     I do feel like there is hope, as talk about this problem has
just recently blossomed.  As has research into the effects and
therapy.  And in a way, this feels like just one skirmish of the
many to come in the war of educating people about the realities of
abuse and finding ways to prevent it.  I only hope to see more
positive progress in my lifetime.

     Robert

Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz)
Subject: Re: paranoia?
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:31:36 GMT

In article <2T8ooB1w164w@penn.Gwinnett.COM> tdelaney@penn.Gwinnett.COM (ted delaney) writes:
>nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:
>
>> In article <91TJoB1w164w@penn.Gwinnett.COM> tdelaney@penn.Gwinnett.COM (ted d
>> >question (no wierd ramblings this time I promise)
>> >
>> >Do any rit-abuse survivors out there suffer paranoia?
>> 
>> As for your particular case, I don't know what you've been saying that
>> has led to people saying that you're paranoid. You might be factually
>> correct and you might not. Check for evidence if it's something important
>> to you. Ask the people who call you paranoid why they think so. (If they
>> just seem to have a habit of denigrating inconvenient ideas and emotions,
>> you might consider not talking to them about things that are important
>> to you.) 
>
>actually, it is a good friend that I discussed this with, he knows me/us, and
>has for 11 years...(wow, that long)
>I asked him point-blank, and he said yes, he thought I was, not obnoxiously so-
>
>I tend,if confronted at work, or if I am noticed by a boss- to get very converned
>/worried about what they think....stomach knots/fear/worry....this also happens
>in other areas.....

Good for you for asking--at least it means you have less reason to worry
about what your friend is thinking. 

I think the level of fear/worry you're describing is caused by emotional
abuse, whether current or in childhood, though ritual abuse could make it
worse. I'm guessing that the underlying premise is "People are really
dangerous, there is no safe way to resolve anger, and there is no way
to get away from them", possibly combined with the belief that it's possible
to think your way out of situations involving other people without having
to make direct contact. (The latter is one of those half-truths--sometimes
that sort of thinking does give a solution, but it's better to have 
additional resources.) 

I'm guessing about the latter part because my reflex is more to not show
any emotion for fear of making things worse, do some placating if the
person is in the immediate area, and avoid the person/the issue in the
hope that the whole thing will blow over. Again, it's an abuse-based
strategy that actually works some of the time, but I'm working on having
more flexibility. I still don't know how to deal with showing my emotions
as I'm feeling them (as distinct from working on past emotions) while
paying attention to someone else's emotions, especially if the emotions
have something to do with me.

                                 ----Nancy


>
>thanks for the response.
From: tdelaney@penn.Gwinnett.COM (ted delaney)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: paranoia?
Date: 27 Jul 92 02:27:55 GMT

question (no wierd ramblings this time I promise)

Do any rit-abuse survivors out there suffer paranoia?
I have several folks lately tell me "Oh, your just being paranoid"....
is it an 'ism' for survivors? (gee, am I being paranoid about being paranoid?
(smile))

just thought I would check out others observations, etc..
anyone know of any books to recommend?
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: cath@stud.cs.uit.no (Catherine Sundnes)
Subject: Re: Splitting alt.recovery
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 08:26:34 GMT

In article <Bs5ovK.Is1@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, ssalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (-=[SLS]=-) writes:
|> weiss@leopard.cs.uidaho.edu remarks:
|> >
|> >(I'm not sure I think alt.recovery ought to be split yet)
|> 
|> Me either. What's all the fluff about? If ya don't wanna read a
|> certain article hit your "j" key or whatever equivalent you may
|> possess. 
|> 
|> Sounds like we got some control problems going on here. :) Just take
|> what you want and leave the rest. 
|>
Well, the problem is, the subject-line doesn't always say what kind of
problem it is about! 

Another thing, there is quite a lot of articles I don't want to read, and
often it comes to that I do a "Catch up" and don't even look at the subject-
list as there are so extremely many articles there.

	Cath
-- 
#               cath@stud.cs.uit.no             #  Catherine Sundnes     #
#                                               #  Roedhettestien 7/B209 #
# Student at the World's nothernmost University #  N-9010 Tromsoe        #
# "To eat or not to eat - that's the question." #  Norway (Europe;-)     #
From: Terry.Murphy@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Terry Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: i do it for myself
Date: 23 Jul 92 03:57:17 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

In article <54779@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> decio@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Gabriel Decio) writes:
>This is my first posting in this newsgroup.  I'm an ACoA, and I have
>read that in fact there are 12 step programs for ACoA's.  I have been
>in two groups led in a totally different way, though.  I don't know
>what I would have done if someone had told me that I had to admit I
>was powerless (that's what my father tried to make me believe all my
>life!) and that I couldn't do anything by myself (another preferred
>line by my father).  
>
>As someone who does not have deities, I would have a serious problem
>admitting my powerlessness, since my recovery/discovery started the
>moment I realized I was powerful and could be in control.  How can I
>hand over the driver's seat to an entity that I don't even know
>exists?  That's pretty much like throwing the steering wheel out the
>window in the middle of the road.
>
>I mean this posting to be a friendly one.  I just do not understand
>how people with poor self-images and a devastating sense of
>powerlessness (over the self, that is) can enhance the very crux of
>their lives to seek recovery.
>
Gabriel, I will accept this post under "you can't transmit what you
haven't got". Since I have no idea what ACoA believe, feel or pratice, and
would not assume I could discuss this matter, why can you call us "people
with poor self images and a devastating sense of powerlessness.

The reason you can't figure us out is that you are not an alcoholic ( I
can only speak for me and not AA as a whole). Your comments are the same
is if I called all ACoA's whinning wimps with bad parents. 

I am still powerless today, even after 10 years of soberity, to taking
that first drink. I am powerless over other people, events or other things
which effect my daily life. If you really want to learn more about this
progarm, I suggest you read the Big Book.

My self image today is light years from where I was  10 years ago. Today,
I have a realistic view of who I am and what I am. Without guilt, or fear
that used to rule my life before soberity.

Back to trudging
terry^


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: joni@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (joni.dunlap)
Subject: Re: i do it for myself
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:13:09 GMT

Hi Richard,

I'm courious as to what you are recovering from? What has worked for you?
If it is alcohol, have you ever tried AA? For how long? Have you ever tried a
12 step program?

Joni :)
From: anne@cco.caltech.edu (Anneliese Lilje)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: RECOVERY!@???
Date: 25 Jul 92 03:43:36 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

In article <1992Jul21.230426.12714@PacBell.COM> wrhogeb@srv.PacBell.COM (Bill Hogeboom) writes:
>In article <1992Jul20.162650.4212@ctr.columbia.edu> weiss@leopard.cs.uidaho.edu writes:
>>In Alt.recovery mikec@intelhf.hf.intel.com (Mike Coleman) writes:
>>|> chris.mathis@madness.network23.com (Chris Mathis)  writes:
>>|> 
>Read the Big Book, get a sponsor, take direction and work the steps

Read the "Big book"... a lot of sexually explicit bullshit

Get a sponsor...works for me...

Take direction.... good choice

work the steps.....

sounds good.


anne
>to the best of your ability. Been working that way for me for over
>eight years now.
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: esteward@bbseg5.isi.edu (Elaine Steward)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Splitting alt.recovery
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:22:01 GMT

I have found what I wanted/needed for the past three years in one *.a  
program, and more of what I wanted in another (1 3/4 yrs).  I am able to  
apply the 12 steps to most problems with the result that they become more  
manageable.  All of this notwithstanding, I have found opinions from those  
outside of my *.a's, and even those who object to (or have no information  
on) 12 step programs, to be enlightening and often helpful.

The more I practice identifying with what others say and feel, the closer  
I get to doing what I'm supposed to be doing.  If everyone I interact with  
already agrees with me, how can I learn and grow?

elaine