HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nuge@newport.med.ge.com (James A. Nugent)
Subject: Re: ADVICE WANTED:  Changing house outlets from 2 to 3 prongs
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Milwaukee, WI
	<17016@ulysses.att.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:15:17 GMT

In article <17016@ulysses.att.com> smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven
Bellovin) writes:

> In article <DRAND.92Jul28134807@spinner.osf.org>, drand@spinner.osf.org (Douglas Rand) writes:
> > It's called BX.  Armored cable is generally fine.  It should carry a
> > bare third wire, although I believe you're correct on using it 
> > as a safety ground

> The NEC permits use of the conduit sheath as a safety ground; the CEC
> does not.  Consequently, Canadian BX has a ground wire, just like NM (Romex)
> cable does.  The bare third wire in U.S. BX is sometimes suggested for
> use as an auxiliary ground; in my experience, it's too thin, too flimsy,
> and generally useless for anything except wrapping around the anti-short
> bushing....

        The BX in my 20 year old house (US) has a thin metal strip. I
wouldn't really call it a 'wire.' It's just inside the sheath, and
from what I've read, is intended to overcome the resistance between
spiral turns in the sheath. The procedure I've read says to bend it
back along the outside of sheath before shoving the cable into the
clamp.  This arrangement is still vulnerable if the clamp comes loose
I would think.

> Umm.  This depends.  The problem I've had with BX is that older insulation
> can't stand the heat very well.  In my house, the insulation is crumbling
> on wires inside the boxes for ceiling fixtures -- the extra heat of the bulbs
> has caused serious problems.  This is much worse if the ceiling is
> insulated.

> I'm currently in the process of replacing virtually all the wiring in
> my attic.  We're going to put in new ceiling insulation this fall, and
> I want to get new cable in while it's still (relatively) easy.  Every
> time I've opened up a ceiling box, I've shuddered that I've been living
> with something that dangerous.  Yes, it's that bad.  (And now you know
> why we wrote all that new text for the FAQ on lighting fixtures...)

	How old is your house (or the wiring in question?)
--
Jim Nugent

nuge@med.ge.com

nugentj@med.ge.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: GA.MCL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark C. Lawrence)
Subject: Re: ceiling replace
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 23:45:09 GMT

In article <1209@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>,
emolinar@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Elizabeth Molinaro) writes:
>        The Bkfst room ceiling is tin, over nothing but nailed to
>        the studs (there's a better word for the studs that go
>        across the ceiling, I just can't remember it!).  The
Ceiling joists.

>        CAN we use 1/4" drywall for the ceiling?  It's so much
>        lighter!!!!  What are the drawbacks?
First, the thin stuff will sag over time, and end up looking like hell.

Second, in most jurisdictions it won't meet code.  Standard for
residences is 1/2 inch, for most commercial uses 5/8 inch.

Even if you're not planning on getting permits/inspections, you should
make sure your work meets the code requirements.

I trust that you've determined that the wall to be removed is not
holding up the ceiling?
From: kunda@hanuman.Eng.Sun.COM (Ramachandra P. Kunda)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: First time home buyer tax credit?
Date: 31 Jul 92 16:47:36 GMT
Reply-To: kunda@hanuman.Eng.Sun.COM
Distribution: world
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: hanuman

In article 17303@oakhill.sps.mot.com, rainerm@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Rainer P. Mueller) writes:
>peterson@CS.ColoState.EDU (james peterson) writes:
>
>>In article <l7g00kINNn77@yoakum.cs.utexas.edu> cmkuo@cs.utexas.edu (Chin-Ming Kuo) writes:
>>>From today's paper, the finance committee passed the tax package which
>>>includes, among others, the $2,500 tax credit for first time home
>>>buyer.
>>>So is it alive again? Why is it $2,500 instead of the proposed $5,000?
>>>
>>>
>
>>I read the same thing.  It was added that the president intended to sign
>>the bill. If true, does anyone know the details?  Will it be retroactive?
>
>>james sends
>
>>-- 
>>james lee peterson				peterson@CS.ColoState.edu
>>dept. of computer science                       
>>colorado state university		"Some ignorance is invincible."
>>ft. collins, colorado  (voice:303/491-7137; fax:303/491-6639)
>
>
>I just read in todays Wall Street Journal that the bill is for 
>homes purchased between July 28 and Jan. 1.
>
>The bill must still pass the Senate and the House.
>
>
>Rainer Mueller
>Motorola, Austin, TX
>M88000 Development
>rainerm@rpm.sps.mot.com
>Tel:(512)891-3548
>


So, how do you figure out when you bought the house?  The closing date?

ram
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: eliot@chutney.rtp.dg.com (Topher Eliot)
Subject: Re: Carpenter ants 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 13:27:31 GMT
Reply-To: eliot@dg-rtp.dg.com
Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC

I've heard that carpenter ants like soft, wet wood.  Rather than killing them,
you should thank them for telling you that you have a moisture problem, find
and fix that problem, and THEN kill the ants :-)

-- 
Topher Eliot             Data General DG/UX Systems Administration Development
(919) 248-6371      eliot@dg-rtp.dg.com       {backbone}!mcnc!rti!dg-rtp!eliot
Obviously, I speak for myself, not for DG.
misc.consumers.house archivist.  Send mail to house-archive@dg-rtp.dg.com
"Daddy, did you know that super banana squash is a vampire?  And he drinks
blood from cactuses?"  -- Tommy, age 3.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: lester@naomi.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Les Bartel)
Subject: Re: Geothermal heatpump
Reply-To: lester@naomi.b23b.ingr.com
Organization: Dazix, An Intergraph Company
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:55:57 GMT

Generally good discussion of how heat pumps work deleted...

In article <11000@rls.UUCP>, randy@rls.UUCP (randall l. smith) writes:

|> The efficient range for most heat pumps for heating is an ambient
|> temperature above 22F.  Much below that temp, heat cannot be drawn from
|> the air/ground/water to transfer into the dwelling.  For cooling the
|> ambient temperature is somewhere around 78F.  Much above that temp, heat
|> cannot be released to be drawn from the dwelling.

I don't know about the 22F for heating, but I know that my heat pump
will cool the house when its 100 degrees F outside.  Granted, the
thermostat is set at 80, and the heat pump has to work fairly hard,
but it will still keep the house cool.  It also takes quite a while
to cool the house further (say we're expecting a crowd, and need to
drop the temperature to compensate for all the people).  Can anyone
else back these numbers up?

I talked to a sales droid about a heat pump and heating efficiency when
it was very cold outside, and he said that the heat pump
would always heat the house to some extent, no matter how cold it was
outside.  This may be true, but at what temperature would it be more
economical to turn the heat pump off, and resort to resistance heating?

 - Les

-- 
Les Bartel			lester@naomi.b23b.ingr.com
Dazix, An Intergraph Company	uunet!ingr!b23b!naomi!lester
Huntsville, AL			(205) 730-8537

Gravity gets me down.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,misc.taxes
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: What is tax-deductible in closing cost.
Reply-To: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 15:59:30 GMT
Keywords: tax-deductible, closing cost

In article <1992Jul29.201417.9916@dvorak.amd.com> thang@electron.amd.com (Thang Tran) writes:
>Is there any part of closing cost tax-deductible?
>
>If I pay some points to lower the interest rate, can the point-paid be
>deductible from income tax in the next year or amortize over the next
>30 years?

Another name for "points" is "pre-paid interest". They are deductible only
in the year in which they are paid.

Disclaimer: At least, the IRS hasn't come to get me yet.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | "Unfair Competition": Selling cheaper than we do.
George Patterson -  | "Note and Initial": Let's spread the responsibility
                    |    for this.
                    |         Kelvin Throop - The Management Dictionary
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky misc.consumers.house:9954 misc.invest.real-estate:360
From: amy@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Amy McNulty)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: Refinancing while trying to sell your house.....
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:54:43 GMT
Followup-To: misc.consumers.house
Distribution: usa

In article <4801@calmasd.Prime.COM> jxt@calmasd.Prime.COM (Jawahar  
Tembulkar) writes:
> net.oracle,
> 
> Will lending institutions raise objections to funding a real
> estate loan in case the owner ( and resident ) has put the
> house on the market ?

I don't know the answer to your question (although I would suspect that  
the bank might not be thrilled about this), but there's another point  
to consider too. Unless you can find a way to refinance the mortgage  
without ANY closing costs or points, it will take you some number of  
months, maybe even a couple of years, to break even on the deal; the  
bank should be able to tell you how long. If you think you have a good  
chance of selling the house before that time, then you could end up  
LOSING money on the deal. 

______________________________________________________________
amy_mcnulty@vos.stratus.com  OR  amy@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
Amy McNulty -- Stratus Computer, Marlboro, MA
Stratus pays me to write, but not to write this!
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: bair@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (matthew.a.bair)
Subject: Children on the title for a second house?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 12:46:41 GMT


Dear Netters,

I have a question with home buying.  When an older couple (with children)
are buying a second home, some people and some lawyers have suggested they
try the following scenario if possible:

  Put one of your children (assuming they are of age) on the title
  and have them sign documents to the effect that they are one third
  owners of the second house and as such owe you one third the fair
  market value of the house.

I believe this has something to do with ??homestead?? and some $2500 savings
in the property tax (because someone on the title is living at the residence?)
The fact was also given that if we were to pass on, one of our children
would already have ownership (thus saving or estate some problems?)  Well, I
am completely lost about this.  Is this on the up and up?  Could someone
please explain how this arrangement works.

Thanx,

M Bair
bair@ihlpm.att.com
From: swisher@cs.utexas.edu (Janet M. Swisher)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: home fire extinguishers
Date: 31 Jul 1992 13:42:22 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: boogie.cs.utexas.edu

What are the issues and factors to consider in purchasing a fire
extinguisher for home (mainly kitchen) use?  Do they all blow the same
stuff?  Is bigger always better (assuming reasonable cost)?  Is there
a Consumer Reports I could look at about this?

Thanks for your help.

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: bills@sequent.com (Bill Sears)
Subject: Re: What is tax-deductible in closing cost.
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 16:44:07 GMT

In article <158sacINN2pe@sixgun.East.Sun.COM> egreen@East.Sun.COM writes:
>In article 9916@dvorak.amd.com, thang@electron.amd.com (Thang Tran) writes:
>>Is there any part of closing cost tax-deductible?
>
>Yes.
>
>>If I pay some points to lower the interest rate, can the point-paid be
>>deductible from income tax in the next year or amortize over the next
>>30 years?
>
>Discount points are tax deductable in (I think) the current year.  Most
>other closing costs are not, particularly the loan origination fee
>(typically 1%).  See if your lender will list that amount as a discount
>point instead.  It's the same amount of money to them, but tax
>deductable to you if the amount is listed under the proper column.

Discount points AND LOAN ORIGINATION FEES are deductible in the year
that they are paid.  This means that if you pay for these amounts out
of your own pocket at closing time, they can be deducted on your current
years taxes.  If, on the other hand, you add the amount of the points
to the total amount of the loan (generally done on refinances or home
equity loans), the points must be amortized over the life of the loan.

There is so much misinformation flying around about discount points and
refinances.  If you pay the discount points at closing, then you can
deduct the entire amount on your current years taxes, whether the loan
is an original mortgage, a refinance, home equity, or whatever.  Simply
remember that the discount points are "deductible in the year they are
paid."  So, if you pay them they are deductible, if you add them to the
loan, then they are deductible through the term of the loan (amortized).
--------
Bill Sears            Sequent Computer Systems            bills@sequent.com

While a transcendant vocabulary is laudable, one must be eternally careful
to ensure that the calculated objective of the communication does not become
ensconsed in obscurity.  Stated simply, it is invariably preferable to 
eschew obfuscation.                                           - Unknown
From: bparrish@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (William Parrish)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 21:28:15 GMT
Subject: Propane price query?
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house

I'm curious what people are paying for Propane right about now...

Here's why I'm asking.  We've been with WestPac propane for a
number of years, and every year the rate has DROPPED during the
summer.  

In the last few months, WestPac was taken over (or changed the
name or something) by Northern Energy.  

Last January, my rate per gallon was $1.119 per gallon, but typically
it drops to around .90/gallon in the summer... however we recently
got filled up (first time since the name change, I think), and the
rate was still $1.119/gallon (this was on 6/23/92).   (By the way, we
also pay about $50/year for a 250 gallon tank)

I had my wife call Northern Energy as though she were a potential
new customer, and was quoted a rate of 0.849 per gallon, good through
September 30, 1992.  The person who answered the 800 number asked a
bunch of questions about what company we were with, and my wife carefully
declined to state... 

Well, I went a bit nonlinear after this, and called the manager in Lincoln
CA (near Sacramento) and asked him why they were quoting a lower price to
new customers than "old" ones.    He stated this was like a new subscriber
rate to the newspaper... and was common business practice.

My questions:

    Is this price out of line with what other "continuing" propane
    customers are having to pay in the summer months?  (i.e. have
    others seen similar continuation of high prices this summer?)

    Is the "new customer discount" a legal way of enticing new
    business?

I'm suspicious that the new management is just turning the screws to
existing customers, but the manager said that costs have not gone down
this summer as they have in other summers (apparently this was a bad
year for propane producers (???).  

Anyway, I'm curious to hear about any other similar net.experiences.

Thanks for any help.

Bill Parrish (bparrish@hprpcd.rose.hp.com)
Xref: sparky misc.consumers.house:9963 misc.legal:15079
From: mary@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu (Mary E. Allison)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,misc.legal
Subject: What about alarm systems (was Burglars and dogs)
Date: 29 Jul 1992 16:01:54 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu

     Well, I missed the start of the Burglars and dogs and snakes 
discussion so someone may have brought this up -- but why not get
burglar alarms?  How much do they cost, probably less than a dog and
dog food and vet bills and however much you'd end up getting sued by
the burglar after s/he is treated for the snake bites.


--
Why is the alphabet in that order?  Is it because of that song? 
  -- Steven Wright

    Mary Allison (mary@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu) Urbana, Illinois
Catx2 Owned, Square Dancer, Leaper, Ballroom Dancer in training 
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: pkrause@triton.unm.edu (Paul Krause CIRT)
Subject: Re: Children on the title for a second house?
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 15:32:36 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Jul30.124641.15996@cbfsb.cb.att.com> bair@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (matthew.a.bair) writes:
>
>Dear Netters,
>
>I have a question with home buying.  When an older couple (with children)
>are buying a second home, some people and some lawyers have suggested they
>try the following scenario if possible:
>
>  Put one of your children (assuming they are of age) on the title
>  and have them sign documents to the effect that they are one third
>  owners of the second house and as such owe you one third the fair
>  market value of the house.
>
>I believe this has something to do with ??homestead?? and some $2500 savings
>in the property tax (because someone on the title is living at the residence?)
>The fact was also given that if we were to pass on, one of our children
>would already have ownership (thus saving or estate some problems?)  Well, I
>am completely lost about this.  Is this on the up and up?  Could someone
>please explain how this arrangement works.
>
>Thanx,
>
>M Bair
>bair@ihlpm.att.com

Just a couple of thoughts since definative answers require more detail than
really be put on the net.

Is your estate going to be over $600,000?  Estate tax isn't really an issue
before then.

What happens if the child who is on the title files for bankruptcy or gets
into an ugly divorce.  $2,500 may look cheap.

I suspect that putting things in trust may be a better way to go, but have
no first hand experience in that area.

Paul

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: Round tile cut with no wet saw?
Reply-To: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 15:56:13 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.131401.44339@uvmark.uucp> scholl@uvmark.uucp (Kathryn Scholl) writes:

>What is "the norm" when it comes to cutting out big curves on tile?

They make a diamond empregnated saw blade for hacksaw frames which does
this sort of thing. The blade is round, a little larger than 1/16" diameter.
You can cut any shape you want with one. I got mine at Home Depot.

>Also, is a 1/16" grout line alright for my 12 x 12 tiles, or should
>I go to a 1/8"?  I want it to look as much like marble, so I thought
>the thinner grout lines would look best, but I don't want to jeopardize
>them cracking.  Maybe I could add more silicon "milk" to my grout
>mixture?

I had the same idea and I spoke to some tile pros about it. The consensus
is that, if you go with a thin line like this, use wall grout, not floor
grout. They said the only difference between the two grouts is that the
floor grout has a sandy filler added to fill up the wide joints. With a
narrow joint, you don't want the filler. The one place I tried it (marble
squares) has held up fine for three years now.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | "Unfair Competition": Selling cheaper than we do.
George Patterson -  | "Note and Initial": Let's spread the responsibility
                    |    for this.
                    |         Kelvin Throop - The Management Dictionary
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: mks@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (manishkumar.sharma)
Subject: ANTS
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 13:12:06 GMT

I remember there was a discussion on ants a while ago. Instead of rehashing
the same subject, could someone email me the collected info if there is any?
Or just email me any information/advice.
We just found some sawdust-y material in the gap between the
wallboard/trim and the floor. I vacuumed this out a coule of times; but it
reappeared in a few days and then I saw the little buggers running around
happily.  How do I get rid of them? Any household commercial sprays that
do a good job? Thanks.

-Manish Sharma
...attbl!trumpet!mks
From: dmatthews@uap.umd.edu
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: 1/2" drill reccommendations
Date: 27 Jul 92 19:40:30 GMT
Reply-To: dmatthews@uap.umd.edu
Organization: IPST, U. of Maryland, College Park

In article <27JUL199214471497@eldyn.gsfc.nasa.gov>, goldberg@eldyn.gsfc.nasa.gov (Patti Twigg) writes:
>Hi all! My husband finally killed our 3/8" drill (a fiery death, at
>that!), and he is using our neighbor's 1/2" drill right now. He
>wants to buy a new 1/2" drill, so I was wondering if anyone has
>any opinions about which brand is better - or are they all pretty
>much the same? Thanks for any help or ideas!
>                                 Patti Twigg
No drill is immortal.  The cause of death should be taken into account.
For example, overload?  Improper maintenance?  If the former, he should
get a higher hp rating than usual.  Use it a lot?  Get one used by
contractors you know or perhaps by tool rental outfits.  
Dr. David L. Matthews, IPST, Univ. of Maryland, College Park MD 20742-2431 
Telephone  (301)405-4830	Internet   dmatthews@uap.umd.edu
FAX 	   (301)314-9363	NSI/SPAN   UMDUAP::DMATTHEWS
Xref: sparky misc.consumers.house:10089 misc.legal:15283
From: marks@ssdevo.enet.dec.com (Randy Marks)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Burglars and dogs and snakes, oh my!
Date: 31 Jul 92 16:10:09 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp. - Colorado Springs


In article <MACRAKIS.92Jul30172324@next4.osf.org>, macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis) writes...
>You apparently value your precious property rights more than human life.  

You apparently don't fully understand the issues at hand.

>No civilized state or country imposes capital punishment for
>burglary, 

That is correct (in the US, anyway).

>yet you arrogate the right to yourself.
>Or maybe it's not even property rights.  Maybe it's simple macho.
>It's just not macho to run out the back door and call the cops.

Property is not the issue.  If somebody breaks into my house,
how do I know if he is after my property or my life?

>Not to mention that a criminal is more likely to attack you if you
>threaten him than if you run away.  
Unfounded rhetoric.

>PS  Historically, it is not WI, NY, and MA that have `diminished' the
>    rights of the property owner, it is CO etc. that were forced in
>    their pre-civilized days (when the sheriff might be a day away) to
>    abandon the basic principle that life is more valuable than
>    property.
Again, the issue is *not* protecting your property.
The issue is protecting your *LIFE*.  You spew forth all this rhetoric
without have the foggiest idea of the principles.  For instance, in CO you
cannot set a booby trap to protect against a burglar.  In other words, you
may not injure or kill merely to protect property.  But if an intruder
breaks into your home while you are present, then the situation is no longer
protection of property.

	Randy Marks
(UUCP)	                {decvax,ucbvax,allegra}!decwrl!ssdevo.enet!marks
(INTERNET)              marks@ssdevo.enet.dec.com
(domain-based INTERNET) marks%ssdevo.enet@decwrl.dec.com
..........................................................................
	"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe
	while the legislature is in session."
..........................................................................