HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: East Timor Communist ? NOT!
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:57:09 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1992Apr15.151334.4696@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> chuah@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (DanC) writes:
>In article <1992Apr14.202342.23948@athena.mit.edu> zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif) writes:
>
>>>Z :     Could you give any documentation of a genocide committed by
>>>the Indonesian government?  I have not come across any of this
>>>allegation before, so it is a news item to me.  The so called
>>>"cultural genocide" does not count.
>>>
>>>To Zam and other sceptics who just happened not to read about the
>>>November 12 massacre when Indonesian troops coldbloodedly mowed
>>>down civilians at a funeral ceremony - I am going to go look up
>>>some old East Timor newsbriefs. You want to know about genocide?
>>>You got it.
>>>
>>>A teaser : The population of East Timor in 1975 was 688,000. Today,
>>>it is 450,000. Where do you think the rest of them went? And no,
>>>the answer is NOT migration. Think guns, torture and detention.
>>
>>	You don't call the killing of several people as genocide.
>>Genocide is defined as "the deliberate and systematic destruction of a
>                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>racial, or political group" -- Webster dictionary.  The Holocaust can
>         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>be classified as genocide, not the death of a few protestors...
>
>Isn't the Nov massacre aimed at a political group?  People who
>are attending a funeral are NOT protesting.  They just happen not
>to share the same ideas as the Indon govt.

	How do you know that the Nov. massacre was aimed at a
political group?  Those people are mourners, and they are not a part
of any political entity.  As I see it, it is an action of an overly-
zealous commander trying to impress the top-brass in his country.

>Anyway, Zam, back to my old allegation that you support the Indon 
>govt's actions and thus you are a NAZI.  Do you actually support 
>the Indon govt's action in the Nov killings?  I quote you, "...if it
>(the forced assimiliation -ed.) works, then they should export it to
>the rest of the world".

	I support forced assimilation in Indonesia since it has
produced the best possible result.  Banning the Chinese languages,
Chinese schools, and etc, has produced the effects that the Indonesian
government has been searching for. I do not however consider gunning
down several protestors as a "forced assimilition".  As I said before,
I do not condone this action but do not see it as a national policy,
but rather the action of one over-zealous commander.

	Do you get the distinction now?

===------ 
NorAazizam MohdAAsif	 
The white man made many promises to us but they never kept but one; they
promised to take our land and they took it.
                                                        Red Cloud
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: zlim@bnr.ca (Zack Lim)
Subject: Re: NS and Officer Pillay
Reply-To: zlim@bnr.ca (Zack Lim)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 92 18:13:04 GMT

In article <1992Apr06.112037.26989@eve.wright.edu>, slam@eve.wright.edu (Sau Chun Lam) writes:
|> 
|> >> Reservist sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Enough said.
|> 
|> I have not done a single Reservist stint yet so I cannot comment on this
|> yet.
|> 
|> "No name" CPL SC "Bad Attitude" Lam - slam@eve.wright.edu

During my last year of college, I was dying to go back to Singapore
to serve my country (till this day my wife who is from Hong Kong is
still laughing at me).  I told her that Singapore is the best place
in this world (I still believe it is, where in the world can you find
almost zero unemployment rate, very low crime rate, clean etc ....)
to live and bring up a family.  Alas, after 3 reservist training, my
dream of paradise Singapore change.  Is this what I get in returned 
for being patriotic and loyal.  When I first mentioned to my wife 
that I am getting out, she was so shocked (by then she was so 
accustomed to the Singaporean culture).

Believe me, if a person can give up his patriotism and loyalty, it
is that bad.
From: cylee@pieman (Chang Yong Lee)
Subject: To Shit Head Zam !
Organization: University of Tasmania 
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 07:38:00 GMT

Zam Dum Dumm, 
   You are a 


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Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: Cynthia Dawood <sl298028@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Diablo...
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 05:50:20 GMT


	I want to go to Kelantan.... I want to see the one and only one Diablo
in SEA........ 

P/S: Funny.. I have been in US for a couple of years - and haven't seen a single
     Lamborghini...... well, maybe I sould open my eyes wider next time....

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: eduardo@eng.umd.edu (Eduardo H. Guiraud)
Subject: Re: East Timor Communist ? NOT!
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 17:45:50 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, College of Engineering

In article <1992Apr15.145709.29517@athena.mit.edu> zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif) writes:
>
>	I support forced assimilation in Indonesia since it has
>produced the best possible result.  Banning the Chinese languages,
>Chinese schools, and etc, has produced the effects that the Indonesian
>government has been searching for. I do not however consider gunning
>
        Are Indo. Govt afraid that Chinese people take over Indonesia?
	Gee, there are only about 3% Chinese of the whole Indonesian
        population.  3% against 97%, I don't think Chinese Indonesian
        are that stupid....
>
>===------ 
>NorAazizam MohdAAsif	 
>The white man made many promises to us but they never kept but one; they
>promised to take our land and they took it.
>                                                        Red Cloud
From: daniel@khan.cs.wisc.edu (Daniel Woo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: To all you weenies....
Keywords: Enough is enough
Date: 16 Apr 92 04:23:30 GMT
Followup-To: alt.games.sf2
Organization: UW Madison

In article <1992Apr14.193202.21518@athena.mit.edu> zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif) writes:
>In article <1992Apr14.061909.13875@unlinfo.unl.edu> misc2@cse.unl.edu writes:
>>zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif) writes:
>>
ZAM>>>a thing.  But knowing that you Chinese will do anything for the money, 
ZAM>>>will you do your father, mom, sisters and brothers if someone offers
ZAM>>>enough money?  I bet you would...
>
[stuffs deleted]

ZAM>	In other words, you will pimp your mom if it furthers your
ZAM>causes, am I right?  Boy, you are predictable.  Tell me something:
ZAM>would you pimp your wife just so that you can get a promotion?  I bet
ZAM>you would...
>
ZAM>	Homosexuality is considered immoral in Islam.  You, as an
ZAM>atheist, will have no difficulty bending over and getting your behind
ZAM>rammed by someone else.  Tell me, do you use lubricant for your above
ZAM>action?
>
ZAM>Eat shit you self-appointed wannabe know-nothing ass-licking
ZAM>dick-breath  cocksucking net-cop motherfucker...
>
>p/s: Sorry for those who are offended by some statements in this
>article.  The posting by the anonymous person above is invariably
>bellicose, hate-spreading, and above all, blatantly false. National
>Enquirer probably carries more truth than this person's posting.
>
Your apology is not accepted.  I am offended (and disgusted) by MOST and not
SOME of your statements.  As someone, and I assume that you are indeed a human,
who has obviously spent some time in MIT presumably getting an education; many
of us might come to a different conclusion based on a long record of your
prolific writings, I would expect a higher level of decency and maturity in
your choice of language in conducting yourself in a public forum like this.

IMHO that you are exactly the person described in your p/s; except that
the person has sense enough to feel shameful to associate his real name to
those flaming words.  You on the other hand, has time and time again assulted
our eyes with your unfortunate choice of words and tone.  

To all fellow netters, I urge you not to be drag to his level and we should
all stop responding to his nonsenses.  Until he can prove himself to be
able to handle  discussion/argument in a more civilized manner, your time and
efforts are all better spent in other undertakings.  

I hope all of you would seriously consider my proposal.

>===------ 
>NorAazizam MohdAAsif	 
>The white man made many promises to us but they never kept but one; they
>promised to take our land and they took it.
>                                                        Red Cloud

Daniel Woo	{broke my promise to stay off the net until after the finals...
		 okay.....I think this is it...later, dudes!}
		Dhalsim: " I will meditate and crush you ! " {sf II exempted}
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Friday, 10 Apr 1992 08:54:09 EDT
From: <NXN101@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Algeria and the West

In article <1992Apr10.202450.4637@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>,
chuah@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (DanC) says:

>>I am also bothered by the way the Western media
>>consistently tries to portray events as non-Muslims against Muslims.
>>Many reports about East Timor emphasised the conflict between the
>>"Christian East Timorese" and the "Muslim Indonesians" which is
>>NOT the point at all! Indonesia, after all, has its own Christian
>>minority whose religion is respected under Pancasila.
>
>This protrayal hides tha fact that it is the struggle of the
>East Timorese against an oppresive govt.  How easy can one twist
>facts to Moslems angainst non-Moslems.

NO!!!

East Timor is one of the strongest communist bases in the region.  The
Indonesion Governemnt is afraid of this fact.  It is not the struggle of the
East Timorese against an oppresive governent (like you said), but the
struggle of the Indonesian government to stop another disgusting awakening
of COMMUNISM.  Even the Australians are afraid of this fact cos' it is near
to their country.

So, if you don't know why Indonesia invaded East Timor....NOW YOU KNOW!!!
In fact, Australia coaxed Indonesia to invade East Timor.  Of course, to save
her ass from the communists without being condemned for the invasion.
Indonesia became the scapegoat of the decade for the interests of other
countries in the region especially Australia.

So, be grateful to the Indonesians at least for once in your life.  We are
already uncomfortably near the god of communism China.  So, don't let another
one coming after our asses.   Will you?


-azlan nordin-          "I dig natural gas and I love that crude oil!!!"
  Penn State


>Dennis Chuah  | "Pencangkul Matahari"  email:
>EEE Canterbury|  chuah@stargate.elec.canterbury.ac.nz  (SUN) <- preffered
>New Zealand   |  CHUAHDC@ELEC.canterbury.ac.nz         (VAX)
>---------------- CHUAH-DC@opheus.elec.canterbury.ac.nz (NOVELL) ----------
>(bugs+flames) > /dev/null
From: your mama
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Assimilation by the Chinese in Malaysia....
Date: 11 Apr 92 20:05:58 GMT

>In article <1992Apr1.175505.3511@athena.mit.edu>, zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif) writes:
>> 
>> Excerpt from "CHINA AND THE ASEAN STATES: the ethnic Chinese
>> dimension", by Leo Suryadinata. pp 17 - 18.
>> 
>> As was mentioned, some Chinese in the ASEAN communities have been more
>> acculturated into local society than others.  Their degree of
>> acculturation depends largely on the size of the Chinese community (in
>> proportion to the non-Chinese population); the degree of religious
>> similarities between the Chinese and the indigenous population; the
>> readiness of the local government to accomodate the Chinese; and the
>> readiness of the local Chinese to acculturate.  The Chinese in
>> Thailand appears to be the most acculturated.  They are followed by
>> the Chinese in the Philippines and Indonesia; THE LEAST ACCULTURATED
>> ARE THOSE IN MALAYSIA.

>>	I am as open minded as a person next door, but when I see a
>>clear-cut example of a group of people refusing to assimilate into a
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>society just for the heck of it, it ticks me off...

>>NorAazizam MohdAAsif	 
>>The white man made many promises to us but they never kept but one; they
>>promised to take our land and they took it.
                                                        Red Cloud

OK, this is to let off steam. Excuse me Mr. Know it All. I cannot believe
you can say that the Chinese have totally refused to assimilate. What do
you call the BABAS ? Are they not an example of Chinese assimilation with
the Malay culture ? You know my grandmother even dresses like a Malay.
There is more to Malaysian history than your small ethnocentric window.

Baba culture is the result of Malay/Chinese inter-marriages. It seems to me
that they were allowed freedom-of-religion. Malay marries CHinese or vice
versa but the couple were allowed to choose their religion (correct me if
I am wrong). That does not seem to be the case today. 

Today Malay/Chinese inter-marriages result in the Chinese person having to 
convert to the Muslim faith. I have nothing against Islam. But the question I 
present is why has the "Baba process" almost come to a halt ? Who benefits 
from this "Us and Them" division ? Is this "have-to-convert-to-Muslim" rule NOT a tool to preserve a Muslim majority for obvious political reasons ? Or is it
just another attempt to tamper with the creative forces of the universe just
for the heck of it. I assure you if you look into other Muslim countries or 
even the "Cape Malays" of South Africa, such stringent rules regarding 
mix-marriages do not exist.

The reasons that Malaysia is such a mess right now are more complex than 
you think. But think you must.

Honestly, someone as thoughtfull as you should not be wasted on a technical
degree. I suggest you take up history/philosophy/political science/anthropology.
It might do some good.

A belated "Selamat Hari Raya Aidil Fitri" to you.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: tabk2@isuvax.iastate.edu
Subject: Re: To all you weenies....
Reply-To: tabk2@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 05:19:48 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.173731.12923@athena.mit.edu>, zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif) writes:

>	Nope, it is against the Islamic Law and I would never do such
>a thing.  But knowing that you Chinese will do anything for the money,
>will you do your father, mom, sisters and brothers if someone offers
>enough money?  I bet you would...

what a joke...i bet you don't even know much about the chinese history, do you?
or the way we are.....you talk as if you know so much about the chinese...

Do you know what you remind me of? Stereotype personified. 

Kind of how the American whites used to think of the Indians back in those 
days. 

>	Hey, a fag can't be my father, okay?
>
>	The pleasure is all mine, you insignificant little twit!!

Here we go again, more name callings and abusive words.......


>
>===------ 
>NorAazizam MohdAAsif	 


>                                                        Red Cloud
From: sl298028@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Cynthia Dawood)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Sultan Kelantan...
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:17:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: bronze.1992Apr8.221741.7079
Organization: Indiana University


	As an ordinary citizen, I'm obviously dissapointed over the 'childish'
behaviour displayed by the Kelantanese sultan ...but I'm more dissapointed
over the attitude shown by 'rakyat Kelantan' (Kelantanese) over the issue.
It is an honorable thing to defend your Sultan (if I understood it right) but
to defend him blindly would do him more harm than good - not only for him
but also to other rulers. And as a ruler, I hope he is wise enuf to think
about the consequences of his actions. Given the already shaky ground of the
existance of sultans (I heard the sultan will have their power reduced
substantially by the Malaysian government) I don't think that they need
more bad images about them. 

	Don't get me wrong, I do not oppose the existance of Malay sultanate
, in fact I admire our current Agong, Sultan Azlan Shah who is the ruler
of Perak. (BTW... what's the name of his eldest son....Raja Nazrin ??? )
A judge would undoubtedly be a suitable candidate as a ruler.....

 	Ops.. back to our issue here... I agree with a posting not  long
ago which accused the Kelantan government as hypocrite.... it seems obvious
now that all those gimmicks are politically motivated......why do they want
to protect an 'unislamic' move by their beloved sultan and at the same time
trying to introduce the islamic law ? it seems to be contradictory. AND..don't
forget that it is the sultan that should set the example for his 'rakyat jelata'
...... so until he behaves himself accordingly .... heaven knows.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: rtt1@cec1.wustl.edu (Rajan T Thampi)
Subject: Re: A paradox?
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis Mo.
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 02:43:04 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.202638.18875@athena.mit.edu> zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.174051.682@wuecl.wustl.edu> rtt1@cec1.wustl.edu (Rajan T Thampi) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr9.234009.21417@athena.mit.edu> zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif) writes:
>>>
>>>	Do you know why people like Adolf Hitler exist?  Precisely
>>>because there is a need to get rid of people like you from the face of
>>>this earth.
>>>
>>
>>	By the statement above, are you implying that what Hitler did to the 
>>Jews and other races which I can't think of their names right now, is right? 
>
>
>	Of course not.  Only a demented person would adhere to the
>Hitler's causes...
>

	Very odd...  Then why do you use him as an example?  In the first 
	statement above you say there is the need to get rid of people like 	
	what's-his-name from the face of this earth, and that's why Hitler
	existed.  A contradiction here...   

===============================================================================
Rajan T Thampi --> Internet: rtt1@cec1.wustl.edu | Ngap Sayot! Land of the 
Lycoming College (Physics), Williamsport, PA.    | 	Hornbills.  
Washington University in St. Louis (EE),         | Liverpool F.C   
School of Engineering & Applied Science.         |   - the mighty reds forever!
N A M A S K A R A M  T O  O N E  A N D  A L L !  | Missing Bharat... :-(   
===============================================================================
From: ST101019@brownvm.brown.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: The French in the Pacific
Date: 10 Apr 1992 16:21:19 GMT
Organization: Brown University
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
Disclaim1: Brown University accepts no responsibility for the
Disclaim2: contents of this article.  Please do not sue us!
News-Software: tBRUNO v0.9

Dennis said...

From: chuah@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (DanC)

Me thinks ALL mass destruction weapons should be banned.  Three
cheers to the French for suspending nuclear tests in the Pacific.

 But Dennis, remember that the French are the ones who persistently
continued their nuclear testing program despite years and years
of opposition from every single country in the region. They are the ones
who sent secret agents to blow up the Rainbow Warrior (and hence killing
an innocent Portuguese photographer) and who were NOT sorry about it at
all! This is classic colonial mentality - we want nukes to bolster our
own security but they are nasty so we'll test them on half-naked
Polynesian natives on the other side of the world so *they* can get
cancer and leukemia and screwed up genetics! I think this is really nasty ;
at least the US tests nukes in it's OWN territory. (Although this doesn't
make it any nicer for people who live in New Mexico, still, it's their
country.) If France has stopped doing it, all very well and good.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: East Timor Communist ? NOT!
From: chuah@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (DanC)
Date: 17 Apr 92 00:29:54 +1200
Organization: Electronic and Electrical Engineering Department, University of Canterbury, New Zealand.

In article <1992Apr15.180827.24427@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> dlg6627@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Darmawan  Ludirdja) writes:

>>Yeah right, a migration from the streets to the jail and slaughter houses.
>
>Hahhhh. Can you name any jail or slaughter houses in east timor?
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yep, you are probably right.  There are no jails or slaughter houses.
The army just shoots people in the streets, remember last November?

>I remember read an article from an Indonesian Newspaper a while back that
>there are some east timorese migrate to west timor!.

Govt. propaganda at the least.  I haven't seen a "free" newspaper in
Indonesia before.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Chuah, BE (Elec)    | "One Country,  | Supporting the Malaysian 
Te Whare Wananga O Waitaha | One People." - | Hockey team for gold in 
Aotearoa.                  | Maori proverb. | Barcelona.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Pencangkul Matahari" email: chuah@stargate.elec.canterbury.ac.nz
From: zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: East Timor Communist ? NOT!
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:23:42 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <sf18aINN32c@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU> ST101019@brownvm.brown.edu writes:
>
>Z :     Could you give any documentation of a genocide committed by
>the Indonesian government?  I have not come across any of this
>allegation before, so it is a news item to me.  The so called
>"cultural genocide" does not count.
>
>To Zam and other sceptics who just happened not to read about the
>November 12 massacre when Indonesian troops coldbloodedly mowed
>down civilians at a funeral ceremony - I am going to go look up
>some old East Timor newsbriefs. You want to know about genocide?
>You got it.
>
>A teaser : The population of East Timor in 1975 was 688,000. Today,
>it is 450,000. Where do you think the rest of them went? And no,
>the answer is NOT migration. Think guns, torture and detention.


	You don't call the killing of several people as genocide.
Genocide is defined as "the deliberate and systematic destruction of a
racial, or political group" -- Webster dictionary.  The Holocaust can
be classified as genocide, not the death of a few protestors...

===------ 
NorAazizam MohdAAsif	 
The white man made many promises to us but they never kept but one; they
promised to take our land and they took it.
                                                        Red Cloud