HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ar2j+@andrew.cmu.edu (Anthony Russell Rosania)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Re: DID YOU OR THE NET TOUCH WHILE BLOCKING?
Date: 10 Apr 92 04:53:56 GMT
	<1992Apr9.221339.24725@MITL.COM>
Organization: Freshman, Drama, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


 Your idea of playing the ball no matter what is correct, and is a good
one to pass on to fellow players. However, the ref in a "real" game
would not wait until they were done if the ball was not touched, and  he
wouldn't say anything if it was. In this case I would not say anything
unless I DID NOT touch it, because you are right in one sense that they
shouldn't concern themselves with it unless they hear the ball is dead
and they should also trust you to be honest and say something if you did
not touch it, basically silence should mean the ball is alive and there
should be no question. With that in mind if you are ASKED, in my opinion
you shouldn't be, but if you are you should tell them. If someone
disagrees with you (WHY the other team would insist you DIDN'T touch it
when you say you did, I don't know.) then it has to be settled like any
other disagreement without a ref, either believe the person making the
call on himself OR play it over.

						Ant
From: tchriste@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Todd Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Karch says, "Forget it!"
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:14:16 GMT
Organization: NCR Engineering and Manufacturing Atlanta -- Atlanta, GA

Karch Kiraly has declared that he will NOT return to the US Olympic Team for
the Barcelona Games, and that he will not reconsider.  

Good for:  Karch, what does he have to prove anyway?  Maybe being the highest
           ranked beach player (I bet it won't happen).

           His wife, now expecting and due while Karch would have been in
           Barcelona.  Way to keep his priorities in order.

           The guys on the current US team who couldn't buy a minute of 
           playing time with Karch there.

Bad for:   US team's hopes for a 3-peat.  US team's passing is horrid, and
           nobody's better than the Big K.  Hopefully, some of the other
           vets coming back (Stork, Cvrtlik (sp?), Timmons) will add some
           stability and ball control to this team of spike-and-burn kids
           who hit everything but pass nothing and had the worst serving
           percentage in the world league last year.  Ivie and Fortune 
           couldn't buy a serve last year.


-- 
========================== Standard Disclaimer ===============================
Todd E. Christensen,      |"If you guys know so much about women, then why are
Financial Systems Support | you hanging out at the Gas & Sip on a Friday night
NCR E&M Atlanta,Duluth,GA | with no women around anywhere?" - Say Anything...
From: aly@umiami.ir.miami.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: AVP Tour Info. needed!!!!!!!!!
Date: 13 Apr 92 14:31:12 EDT
Organization: Univ of Miami IR

HI EVERYONE!!!!!
HAPPY EASTER!!!!!!

A group of my friends and I are going to go to
Clearwater, Florida to see the AVP tour.

Does anyone know who is going to be playing there?
Is it just Florida circuit?
Will top players be there?

I would appreciate any information you can give me!!!!!!

Also, should I reserve hotels for that weekend 
ahead of time ????

Thanks alot,

ALY

E-Mail address:   in%"aly@umiami.ir.miami.edu"
From: walsh@zko.enet.dec.com (Chris Walsh)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Re: Referee's judgment (was DID YOU OR THE NET TOUCH WHILE BLOCKING?)
Date: 10 Apr 92 21:32:58 GMT
Reply-To: walsh@zko.enet.dec.com (Chris Walsh)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

>A good ref should confer with the rest of the officiating team on a disputed
>call, but it is improper to ask players if they committed a violation.  In
>fact, the national ref that conducted my first certification class stated
>that the referee should ignore admissions of faults, like touches or net
>violations.  This doesn't put teams that call their own at the disadvantage
>of teams that don't.  A second reason he gave was that players can be
>mistaken when balls contact them through the net.

I've heard that this is changing.  You are correct that it is improper to ask players about violations, but I believe it is no longer true that you should ignore player admissions of faults. Essentially, referees *may* accept input volunteered by the player, but they should be aware that players may also be mistaken.  The example you mention is a good one, about a ball that moved the net into a blocker, instead of them having actually touched the net.

One area where I personally never accept "advice" is on mishandles.  If  I clearly saw the play, and I chose to let it go, it's not a mishandle no matter what the player thinks.  Let a player change your mind about such a subjective call, even when it's against them, and folks 
may get the idea that they can change your mind about other handles.  It's easier (and usually quieter - see the thread on "groans") to just avoid the hassle.
--
Chris Walsh    			walsh@zko.enet.dec.com
603.881.2302  (DTN 381-2302)    
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: rpaolino@polisci.pol.umn.edu (Robert Paolino)
Subject: Re: DID YOU OR THE NET TOUCH WHILE BLOCKING?
Organization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 04:17:49 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.173313.11501@sunb10.cs.uiuc.edu> u2417@sunc2.cs.uiuc.edu (Mike Schneider) writes:

>I'm sure this has happened to anyone who blocks often.  
>You are blocking, and your opponent spikes the ball hard,
>and it hits the top of the net and bounces back at him.
>However, it also happens to have hit *you*, which your
>opponent doesn't realize, and his team has 3 more hits!

>I've thought about this recently and decided that when I
>touched the ball in this way, I would not say so until
>after the ball was played (since we have no ref).  Why should
>I give this info to the other team during a play?

>Then this happened during practice.  The ball bounced off the net
>back to the other team, and I had touched it (just a bit).  One player
>passed it, but someone else was saying "did you touch it" and of course
>I didn't say anything.  The next person just caught the ball
>and said "He didn't touch it."  Then *I* said "Aha!  I did touch
>it, and you should never let a ball go until you are absolutely
>sure it is dead." (or something like this).  Of course, this person
>that caught the ball is a friend of mine with an attitude and
>he got really pissed at me when this happens, which is typical
>of him since he hates to be wrong.

>I'm just wondering...how does anyone else feel about this?

My feeling is that you sound like a sleazy player.  I prefer to play with 
people who are a little more sportsmanlike.  Besides, you might have gotten 
the best on this play, but what happens when your own teammates don't know 
whether you touched and, therefore, don't know how to play a ball?
Grow up!


>-- 
>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>!! Mike Schneider schneid@jerry.stat.uiuc.edu !!
>!! University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign !!
>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
RPAOLINO@polisci.pol.umn.edu                             Bob Paolino
 "Help! I've fallen and I                    University of Minnesota
   can't reach my beer!"             Department of Political Science
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Volleyball referees: We whistle while we work....      [;-)]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: quentin@spike.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Quentin x6506)
Subject: Re: DID YOU OR THE NET TOUCH WHILE BLOCKING?
Reply-To: quentin@spike.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 18:18:19 GMT

In article <rpaolino.247@polisci.pol.umn.edu>, rpaolino@polisci.pol.umn.edu (Robert Paolino) writes:
|> In article <1992Apr9.173313.11501@sunb10.cs.uiuc.edu> u2417@sunc2.cs.uiuc.edu (Mike Schneider) writes:
|> 
|> >Then this happened during practice.  The ball bounced off the net
|> >back to the other team, and I had touched it (just a bit).  One player
|> >passed it, but someone else was saying "did you touch it" and of course
|> >I didn't say anything.  The next person just caught the ball
|> >and said "He didn't touch it."  Then *I* said "Aha!  I did touch
|> >it, and you should never let a ball go until you are absolutely
|> >sure it is dead." (or something like this).

|> My feeling is that you sound like a sleazy player.  I prefer to play with 
|> people who are a little more sportsmanlike.
|> --------------------------------------------------------------------
|> RPAOLINO@polisci.pol.umn.edu                             Bob Paolino
|>  "Help! I've fallen and I                    University of Minnesota
|>    can't reach my beer!"             Department of Political Science
|> --------------------------------------------------------------------

This is during practice, people.  This is when you play ball to learn,
when you stretch the boundaries, excercise muscles and functions and
ideas.  Sleazy is a little harsh, IMHO.

I would not expect my opponents to offer this info to me in a match,
friends or no.  No hard feelings at all.  Play the whistle.

Q
--
Quentin Neill                                 NCR E&M Columbia          
internet: quentin@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM          3325 Platt Springs Road
voice: (803) 791-6506                         West Columbia, SC 29169
From: ajiang@lonestar.utsa.edu (Alexander X. Jiang)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Re: Overhead setting...
Keywords: setting
Date: 13 Apr 92 03:17:05 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio

The thing is that most of the time whatever the ref says counts.  And usually
the refs decide a catch or throw based on overall level of the teams.  As I can
remember, the international rule (olympic, etc.) specified something like 10th
of a second or something (time the ball allowed to touch the fingures) while
setting.  But again, it depends on the ref's decision.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: marshall@software.org (Eric Marshall)
Subject: Karch says "No Thanks" to U.S. Olympic team
Organization: Software Productivity Consortium, Herndon, Virginia
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 13:41:47 GMT

	So says Paul Sunderland from the weekly AVP coverage on Prime Network.
Sunderland said he got the information directly from Karch.

                                                               o
Eric Marshall                                                    \
Software Productivity Consortium                               \O/
SPC Building                              ||====================|====||
2214 Rock Hill Road                       ||-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-/\+-+-||
Herndon, VA 22070                         ||===================\=\===||
(703) 742-7153                            ||                         ||
                                          || Kill or be killed.      ||
ARPANET: marshall@software.org
From: gene@wucs1.wustl.edu (_Floor_)
Subject: Re: Power Volleyball - the ultimate serves
Organization: The K-Zoo Crew
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 04:59:44 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.170047.13370@infonode.ingr.com> bells@infonode.ingr.com (Scott Bell) writes:
] 
]      Putting topspin on a ball causes it to "shoot straight". A similar
]    example is the spiraled groove in a gun barrel, which does the same.
] 

Huh? Since when does one put TOPSPIN on a bullet? The helical grove
in a gub barrel serves to give the bullet rotation about its axis
(parallel to the direction of motion). This rotation brings about
the gyroscopic effect which stabilizes the bullet and prevents it
from "tumbling" through the air. Just try throwing a fribee without
spinning it. The gyroscopic effect is really conservation of angular
momentum, which is a vector quantity. Therefore, the axis of rotation
doesn't want to change from its 'present' direction. Now, for a
spinning volleyball, this means a ball with topspin tends to maintain
topspin. It is not angular momentum that causes a ball to "shoot
straight" necessarily, although it may be distantly related. Thus the
above comparison isn't quite right IMHO.

But, to bring up an old issue, it is the lack of spin which takes
stability away from a floater. This is why a floater can sometimes
wobble through the air. Balls with spin (of any sort - and the more
spin, the better) are often more stable and constant as they go
through the air. But this goes for spin of any sort - not just top,
side, or backspin. A bullet uses its particular rotation because
its shape works well with that - topspin wouldn't work so well
aerodynamically. A frisbee spins the way it does so that it retains
the desired profile to the air. And volleyballs?.....hmmmm.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
::Gene Van Buren________________Floor_::    gene@cs.wustl.edu               ::
::     Particle-Physicist-To-Be       ::    gene@lechter.wustl.edu          ::
::        Volleyball! Don't Catch It! ::    gene@camps.phy.vanderbilt.edu   ::
::        NCAA Div. III Nat'l Champs  ::    gev1@cec2.wustl.edu             ::
:: "Back off, man...I'm a scientist!" ::vanburen%undhep.dnet@dirac.cc.nd.edu::
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: tlennan@peterpan.sdd.trw.com (Tim Lennan)
Subject: Re: DID YOU OR THE NET TOUCH WHILE BLOCKING?
Reply-To: tlennan@peterpan.sdd.trw.com
Organization: TRW SDD
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 19:49:00 GMT

In article <BEERS.92Apr10122559@mitchell.cit.cornell.edu>, Jim Beers <beers@nr-tech.cit.cornell.edu> writes:
>    > Then this happened during practice.  The ball bounced off the net
>    > back to the other team, and I had touched it (just a bit).  One player
>    > passed it, but someone else was saying "did you touch it" and of course
>    > I didn't say anything.  The next person just caught the ball
>    > and said "He didn't touch it."  Then *I* said "Aha!  I did touch
>    > it, and you should never let a ball go until you are absolutely
>    > sure it is dead." (or something like this).  Of course, this person
[stuff deleted]
> 
> Consider the following.  You didn't touch it, and then they play it, but
> of course, you've turned around and were talking to a fellow player,
> and a hard spike hits you in the back of the head and you wimper
> "but I didn't touch it"
> 
> I say, let people know.
> 

Two points.  First, if you don't touch the ball while blocking you should be 
screaming "NO"!  There are two reasons for this: 1) to tell the diggers behind 
you that they should not try to play the ball if it is going out (it's not 
always easy to see small touches on balls that spanked hard) and 2) it lets
the people on the other side of the net that the play is over and that their
attack was so worthless that it didn't even make it over the tape :)

The second point is to NEVER, EVER start celebrating or turn your back on the
ball until you are SURE that the other side has stopped playing the ball, 
that's just common sense!

As for the original poster's question; if you aren't yelling "no" then they
MUST assume that you have touched the ball and play it out!  All balls should
be played until you KNOW that the play is over.

-- 
Tim Lennan - tlennan@peterpan.sdd.trw.com   | Comments welcomed, flames are not.
TRW SDD - opinions are my own, not TRW's    | Hey, I wanted a MACHO machine!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: geoff@flash.bellcore.com (Geoffrey Clemm)
Subject: Re: 4-person strategy
Organization: Bellcore
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:06:26

In article <1992Apr7.045511.19020@helios.physics.utoronto.ca> bonacci@bullet.ecf (BONACCI  John) writes:
   What is the most effective way to play real volleyball four to a side?
   I always suggest 1 middle-front (setter), one middle-back and the two outsides
   (hitters) responsible for a lot of forward/backward coverage.  I suppose that at
   an advanced level it would be possible to get 2 blockers with the other 2 
   defending the backcourt.   

That's the standard formation for pick-up 4's (analagous to 4-2 in 6-person
pickup games).

We play 3 front, 1 back, with right front setting.  Front middle and front
left drop back on free ball, with back player covering right back.  We use
double blocks, with the off side front dropping back to help out the
player in back.  Advantages include most of the reasons for playing 6-2,
such as having a big middle blocker, and having an effective 1-set.

Cheers,

Geoff
--
geoff@bellcore.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: wang@ibma1.cs.uiuc.edu (Eric Wang)
Subject: Re: Power Volleyball - the ultimate serves
Reply-To: wang@ibma0.cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 19:23:16 GMT

The original article in this thread described the sidespin and jump
floater serves as the hardest to receive.  Having just attended a spring
tournament featuring several regional women's varsity teams, I can
attest that the sidespin serve, done properly, is quite vicious -- one
team came out with two jump-servers and two sidespin-servers, and
completely broke down Penn State's (!!) passing game.  Any Big Ten fan
who's seen Penn State pass and dig will understand why I'm so impressed.
(Maybe it was fatigue -- it was their second match in a row (2 of 3 to
15) with just ~ 10 minutes rest in between, at the end of a long day.)
    The problem with sidespin, other than the slightly curved flight of
the ball that prevents the passers from squaring up with the server and
following the ball all the way in, is that the friction of the ball with
the passer's arms is enough to deflect the pass in an unintended
direction.  IMHO, it's this latter effect that really causes the
problems -- the passers had no difficulty getting into position to make
the pass, but their passes were scattering all over the court, at first
because they weren't properly compensating for the spin, and later
because they were overcompensating.
    As for the jump floater -- it's good if you have a normal topspin
jump-serve, because passers tend to "dig in" when they see a hard
jump-serve coming, and are mentally unprepared for a floater.  You have
to hit the ball just like a normal floater, i.e. firmly enough to make
it go flat and straight and just clear the net, but softly enough to go
in.  Think of standing on a 2' box (or however high your jump is), then
doing a floater from there -- you can hit it at a much more nearly flat
trajectory.  A jump floater is NOT a missed jump-serve; it's a serve in
its own right, with its own armswing.

Eric Wang
wang@ibma0.cs.uiuc.edu



Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: swfc@mendelssohn.cs.columbia.edu (Shu-Wie F Chen)
Subject: Re: Volleyball Doubles Clinic - San Jose, CA
Reply-To: swfc@cs.columbia.edu
Organization: Columbia University Computer Science
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 17:22:20 GMT


There have been recent postings on v-ball clinics and camps.  What do
they teach at these events and how much better is it than playing with
good v-ball players?

*swfc


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shu-Wie F Chen	             Columbia University Department of Computer Science
swfc@cs.columbia.edu	     500 W120th Street, New York, NY 10027
From: julier@master.CNA.TEK.COM (Julie Richardson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Olympic Games
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:50:43 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

When the time comes for the Olympic Volleyball Games would someone
post dates and times that they will show on TV.  Thank you sooo
much.  

Julie R.
Redmond OR
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: geoff@flash.bellcore.com (Geoffrey Clemm)
Subject: Re: Karch's book
Organization: Bellcore
Date: 6 Apr 92 10:24:19

In article <1992Apr05.045017.172124@locus.com> cjkuo@locus.com (Chengi Jimmy Kuo) writes:
   I think the title is Karch K-(can't spell)'s Championship Volleyball.
   Anyone seen it and can review it?

Yes, it's "Karch Kiraly's Championship Volleyball"
ISBN 0-671-69230-5 Pbk.
Publisher: Fireside, 1990.

It has a bunch of useful tips, but it is rather disorganized and incomplete,
so in general you cannot find the answer to a particular question.

Cheers,

Geoff
--
geoff@bellcore.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
From: jpy@mendelssohn.cs.columbia.edu (John P Yu)
Subject: Re: Power Volleyball - the ultimate serves
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 01:49:05 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.002342.25625@spd.analog.com> gordon.cheung@spd.analog.com (gordon.cheung@analog.com) writes:

>      I can't quite picture how a jumping floater works. I've done it
>  accidentally here and there, and for me, jumping floater is 
>  equivelent to 'OUT'. Did anybody actually try this and has some success.

       This is just a hunch but you're probably using too much
   follow-through, the floater will work better if hit with
   a snapping action into but not through the ball.  Rather than
   trying to go over the top of the ball in spin serving, you
   should try to put a good-sized dent squarely behind it.
   The ball tends to sail probably because you've hit under it.

>      Then the author pointed out that the rule book does not specify that the
>  server has to toss his/her own ball. What if a teammate can toss for the 
>  server? Think of the implications, the jump server can get consistant tosses
>  from the setter, extra momentum can be gain off the rebound of an incoming toss, 
>  or ...Hmm ... let me go home and check my rulebook.

       I believe in the USVBA rules, there is a clause where the
   SERVER must initiate the service motion by tossing/releasing
   the ball and it says clearly from the server's hands - I seem
   to have misplaced my 1992 Rulebook, so I can't cite it chapter
   and verse.  I'm not sure how FOVA or FIVB would rule though!

/jpy

--
===============================================================================
The rogue warrior |.,..@....V.O*L/L)!?...EY.]+#####+B.A.....LL.....U..S.A*....|
===============================================================================
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Re: DID YOU OR THE NET TOUCH WHILE BLOCKING?
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:58:06 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Apr9.173313.11501@sunb10.cs.uiuc.edu>, u2417@sunc2.cs.uiuc.edu (Mike Schneider) writes:
> Then this happened during practice.  The ball bounced off the net
> back to the other team, and I had touched it (just a bit).  One player
> passed it, but someone else was saying "did you touch it" and of course
> I didn't say anything.  The next person just caught the ball
> and said "He didn't touch it."  Then *I* said "Aha!  I did touch
> it, and you should never let a ball go until you are absolutely
> sure it is dead." (or something like this).  Of course, this person
> that caught the ball is a friend of mine with an attitude and
> he got really pissed at me when this happens, which is typical
> of him since he hates to be wrong.
> 
> I'm just wondering...how does anyone else feel about this?

Not sportsmanlike.  How can you rag your opponent about being "absolutely
sure it is dead" if there is no ref to blow/not blow a whistle, and YOU
had no intention of telling him whether or not it was dead?  If nobody had
asked you, you might have assumed that they all saw you touch it and that 
you didn't need to say anything.  However, that's not what happened.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball
Subject: Open play in the Los Angeles Area/San Fernando Valley
From: vfoao07h@VAX.CSUN.EDU (George Mansoor)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 22:40:10 GMT
Reply-To: vfoao07h@VAX.CSUN.EDU
Organization: Cal State Northridge

Does anyone know of any open vollyball play in the San Fernando Valley (Los 
Angeles) area.

Thanks
-----------------------------------
George Mansoor
Cal State Northridge
Business Affairs Systems - BMGT
gmansoor@vax.csun.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.volleyball