From: SG.MML@isumvs.iastate.edu (M. Loughin)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: Re: joint post on discrimination, long!
Date: 23 Jul 92 19:56:05 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

In article <1992Jul22.201956.8048@cco.caltech.edu>,
lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.150241.6714@news.iastate.edu>, SG.MML@isumvs.iastate.edu (M. Loughin) writes:

>>Let's use a very trivial example.
>>I play volleyball.  I'm okay at it.  I have female friends who
>>are excellent players.  When they play with men, most of whom
>>are not as good at it as the woman, many men will virtually push
>>the woman out of the way so they can hit the ball.  It seems
>>obvious to the man that his bad play on the ball *must* be better
>>than anything the woman can do.  He assumes this as a man.  He
>>would not do this to a fellow man.
>
>I think you're wrong there (or, more accurately, I think you're right, but not
>the way you intended to be).  Comparing the way Caltech faculty and students
>behave on a basketball court to the way I've seen other men behaving on the
>basketball court, and assuming that a similar relationship holds when they're
>playing volleyball, I'd expect that the behavior of most men toward other men
>in a volleyball game would be much the same as the behavior you described
>of men toward women, with the following exception:  I wouldn't expect to see
>one man virtually push a better mail player out of the way so he could hit the
>ball;  I expect to see him actually push a better player out of the way.

Yes, I've seen such behavior on the basketball court.  But
volleyball is a much more civilized game (except in the back yard).
I am talking about organized, league competition.  In volley ball,
a person has a certain territory to cover, more so than in basket-
ball.  That territory is his/hers, unless something chaotic happens
and everyone needs to move around for defense.  I am ignoring
such occasions of confusion.  I am talking about situations in
which the ball was heading straight for the woman, and the man
comes flying out of no-where.  I am also aware of male
over-aggression on the playing field, so I can account for this.
But these same men stay in their places when the ball goes to
a nearby man -- like I said, this is supposed to be organized
volleyball.  I'd like to add that this is not, by far, the
behavior all men towards all women on the volley ball court.
This applies to maybe 1 in 5, or so.  And most of them learn
quickly that they will not be popular if they continue such
behavior.

I should explain something else.  I grew playing with boys, and
they all treated me "like a boy."  I was also raised by parents
who lead me to believe I was equal with boys.  (My father treated
my mother chauvinistically, but always treated me fairly.)
I had no reason to expect discrimination in the real world.
So I had no reason to assume that those male volley ball players
were merely picking on the women, except through observation
that they reserved this treatment for the women, only.

This applies to the rest of my life, as well.  I had no reason
to expect discrimination at work until a summer job during
college, where I was sexually harassed.  Then in my first real
job, I discovered that two men who had been in my graduating class
and who had gotten jobs in the same position at the same place,
whose grades were no better -- indeed, one had not yet graduated! --
were receiving a sizeable amount higher salary than I was.  I
experienced similar treatment again, in a later job.  Then there
are the cases I described in an earlier posting.  So, you see,
I was not predisposed towards thinking "men are out to get me."
I learned the hard way that discrimination is alive and well
in the '90's.

--Marie