HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: janm@Moskva.docs.uu.se (Jan Mattsson)
Subject: Re: Advanced JAS 39 Gripen
Keywords: aircraft JAS 39 Gripen
Organization: UDAC, Uppsala, Sweden
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:50:45 GMT


From janm@Moskva.docs.uu.se (Jan Mattsson)

d89-den@ludd.luth.se (David Eliasson) writes:


>In Sweden there have been some rumors going about a hotter version off the JAS
>39 Gripen with a even more powerful version of the F 404 engine. What i have
>heard it should already be flying. If there is somebody who nows something
>about this can be nice two give me a answer.

This 'hotter JAS 39' is known as JAS 39C. I believe it only exists on the
drawing board (or in a CAD system...). No decision has been made to actually
build it. It would be meant for export, as it would be too expensive for
Sweden.


>If somebody nows something about what Radar missile it looks like they should 
>buy too JAS 39 Gripen can also give an answer. Also in this qustion i have 
>heard some rumors about the Swedish airforce should buy some French missile?
>Happy fore an answer.
>  

The choice is between AMRAAM (USA), MICA (France) and Active Skyflash (UK).
AMRAAM is the most mature missile, but I think the Swedish Air Force would
prefer a non-American missile after the Sidewinder experience. About 10 years
ago Sweden bought a modern version of the Sidewinder (AIM-9L, I think) for
the JA 37 Viggen. There was nothing wrong with the missile itself, but there
were some strings attached: no maintenance or modification of the missile
could be done in Sweden. The missiles had to be sent to a NATO depot in
Germany for maintenance. The deliveries of the missile were late, since NATO
countries had priority, and the price was rather high.
Probably the AMRAAM will be sold under similar conditions. The French have
stressed that we could do what we wanted with the MICA. It's not so likely
that Active Skyflash will be chosen, since it won't ready when Gripen is
operational in 1995.
--
Jan Mattsson, CS student, Uppsala University, Sweden
janm@bern.docs.uu.se or janm@minsk.docs.uu.se
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Turbofans in Modern A/C (Was Re: Water Injection)
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:47:18 GMT
Organization: Indiana University


From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)

In article <Bt4opH.28u@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> manuelp@ecf.toronto.edu (MANUELPILLAI Gerald Nishanthan) writes:

>One other reason for high-performance a/c using low bypass ratio engines, is
>acceleration.  If most of your thrust is coming from the turbojet, then it
>is easy to accelerate rapidly.  The response of a large fan to throttle 
>responses would however be quite slow.  

I think the opposite is true, at least at takeoff. Pure turbojets 
produce a lot less thrust at zero airspeed than a turbofan does. 
The early jet fighters often needed aids like JATO to take off. 
Once at high speed, though, the efficiency of a turbofan drops off.




-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)
Subject: 50 Years Ago: Tuesday, 4 August, 1942
Followup-To: soc.history
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:25:48 GMT


From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)




From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)

Tuesday, 4 August, 1942

The British House of Commons passes a bill giving US Army military courts
jurisdiction over crimes committed by US soldiers stationed in Britain.

Britain announces the capture of a new German Focke-Wulf 190 fighter.

Reports from Europe indicate growing German concerns over an invasion from
the west.  New minefields are reported off Norway, and Paris is being
fortified.

Chinese troops attack Linchwan and capture Huwan, both in the Kiangsi
province.

--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--
Bill Thacker   Moderator, sci.military  military-request@att.att.com
(614) 860-5294      Send submissions to military@att.att.com

"Soviet men are forcing the enemy to pay with mountains of dead and heaps
of destroyed machines for every yard of his advance.  The Germans still are
advancing, but to be able to press on they were forced to withdraw
considerable forces from Western Europe." - Moscow radio
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: bakc@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR KR COMAN)
Subject: Re: How to spike a gun?
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:34:03 GMT


From bakc@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR KR COMAN)


From bakc@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR KR COMAN)

In article <BsKCnp.E2s@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> dgfritz@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Doug Fritz) writes:
>From: dgfritz@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Doug Fritz)
>Subject: How to spike a gun?
>Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1992 13:11:49 GMT


>From dgfritz@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Doug Fritz)

>Spiking a gun such as a cannon or artillery piece disables the
>gun, but how does a foot soldier spike a gun?

Guess it depends on the scenario:
1.
Muzzle-loader: temporary -- grab a cannon ball and ram it down to the bottom 
of the bore.  Gotta use a screw extractor to pull it back out.
2.
Muzzle-loader: bit more than temp -- any suitable metal object (bayonet, 
nail, ram-rod) rammed into the touch hole, twisted and broken off, then 
pounded down with musket-butt.  Need to drill that out later.
3.
Breech-loader:  Smash the sights, remove breech block,  insert shell into 
muzzle - load breech - attach *long* string to firing assmbly and fire,  
grenade in half-open breech -- I guess whatever comes to mind in the heat of 
the moment!!

BTW is it not on record that officers in the muzzleloading era used those 
funny little decorative dingle-dangles on strings (aiguiettes?) to spike 
cannon?  Seem to remember reading about that happening somewhere!!

Cheers,
Keith Coman

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: rjl+@pitt.edu (Richard J. Loether)
Subject: Re: DEW Line and "Blackbird"
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:12:38 GMT


From rjl+@pitt.edu (Richard J. Loether)


In article <Bsvn77.E7L@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> pyrdek@edinboro.edu writes:
>
>As a side note, a recent vist to the AF Museum at Wright-Pat AFB
>was a minor disappointment.  The Blackbird has been moved to the annex
>but they don't bother mentioning this fact on the PA announcements
>or on the display floor in the "modern" hanger.  In fact, the
>guide brochure still has it shown near one corner of the modern
>hanger.  If you want to see the "Blackbird" at roost, be ready to
>take a bus ride across the base....

I will be touring Wright-Pat next week and wondered if you (or anyone
else) have any other advice for a tourist unfamiliar with the base.
Expecially anything in the 'don't miss this' or 'forget about that'
category.  Thannks in advance.

RJL
-- 
Rich Loether (rjl@unix.cis.pitt.edu)
Computing and Info Services (Systems & Networks)
(412) 624-6429 / FAX (412) 624-6436

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: hakoskinen@tne01.tele.nokia.fi (Harri Koskinen)
Subject: info on Blue Angels needed
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:45:37 GMT


From hakoskinen@tne01.tele.nokia.fi (Harri Koskinen)




From hakoskinen@tne01.tele.nokia.fi (Harri Koskinen)

One of my colleagues who doesn't have access to the net is
interested in having some background information about US Navy 
Blue Angels display team. However not about what planes they 
have been flying with or when the team was founded.

He is more interested in things that are not mentioned in their
PR material, e.g. in having answers to the following questions:

- what is the role of Blue Angels?
- what is the annual budget?
- is the team sponsored by someone (MDC)?
- how many accidents has happened to them (are any of the
  accidents recent)?

If you also could make reference to good books or recent articles 
describing the team, the information would be appreciated,
either in the net or by e-mail.

---------
Harri Koskinen   (hakoskinen@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi)
freelance aviation writer
Siivet magazine
Finland

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: jharres@doc.bmd.trw.com
Subject: Utah Test range open house
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:11:54 GMT


From jharres@doc.bmd.trw.com

For anyone interested; the Air Force Utah Test and Traing range will host 
an open house on the 20th of August.  Plans include an ICBM motor test,
explosives demonstration, an F-16 weapons release, a B-52 weapons drop, and a
B-1 weapons release.  
  Festivities start at 9 AM with the airplane weapons demos at 1 PM.  Don't 
be late for the planes because you have to be escorted to the demo.  
  Sloppy joe lunch for $3 will be available.  
  The site is west of Salt Lake City on I-80.  Take exit 62 and go north for 18
miles.
  
  Note that the explosives demo 2 years ago was 27000 pounds of TNT etc.
all at once among other things.  

Jim           jharres@oz.bmd.trw.com



Newsgroups: sci.military
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Tracers
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:45:16 GMT


From viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)

ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:

> viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes:

>>	Something is wrong here -- lead is much more toxic than
>>depleted uranium, so the environmental issue shouldn't be the
>>problem.  Does lead actually reflect radar emmissions better than
>>uranium?  I somehow doubt it.  There's something more to this than
>>just radar and toxicity, but I can't figure it out.  Anybody know?

>Uranium is pretty darned toxic if it gets loose, both
>chemically (as a heavy metal) and because its radioactive
>to some degree. The radioactivity might not harm you from
>just being around the ammunition, but if you ingested it 
>it might get absorbed into the body, where it will sit and 
>irradiate your tissues for years to come.

	U238, which is what DU is (though some other isotopes exist at a
fraction of a percentage) is less radioactive than the raw ore is.  If it
is inhaled it's pretty good odds of lung cancer, but since it tends to
react with water I cannot think the radiation would be a big concern for
injestion.  Despite burning of the intestines, it would be expelled if
the particle was too large to pass through the intestinal walls.  With
injesting lead, my understanding is that it is absorbed and will become
a large factor in your life expectancy from lead poisioning.  I must me
missing something still.  Radiologically, it's only a hazard if you
get it lodged in your lungs.  There's got to me more to this.  Does
anybody know if a particle will be broken down and injested if it
managed to get inside your intestines?  That's the only thing I can
see.  The NucE professor I spoke to the other day about this was
unsure since the normal reaction with water would have already happend.

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"There'll be angels on Ariels in leather>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | and chrome, Ridin' down from heaven    >
<viking@iastate.edu      | just to carry me home." -- R. Thompson >
< ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee. >


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: 20mm ammo for Phalanx (was Tracers)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:10:03 GMT


From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)

In article <Bt4opn.29n@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> billb@owlnet.rice.edu (William Stenson Blackwell) writes:

>From billb@owlnet.rice.edu (William Stenson Blackwell)

>In article <BszLnJ.G7z@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, mchui@spinner.cs.indiana.edu (Michael Chui) writes:

||| From Michael Chui <mchui@spinner.cs.indiana.edu|

||| |	(the SAS use tungsten coated 9mm in their HK-MP5 submachine-guns
||| |	to avoid overpenetration that might leave the enemy standing), 

If you want an expanding round you'd want a soft point. I 
suspect the tungsten jackets might be for added penetration-
sort of like the infamous "teflon coated bullets" - the tef-
lon didn't really help penetration - it protected the bore 
against the hard jacket material. These rounds were originally 
developed for police to penetrate car bodies, not bulletproof 
vests.

||| References?  Would the use of materials technology to manufacture
||| expanding military rounds be legal under the Geneva Convention?

|Being more into Poli Sci/Econ rather than Metallurgy, I wouldn`t know for 
|sure, but I would think that this would cause greater penetration to 
|ensure a "kill" rather than a "casualty".  This follows from what I know
|about standard anti-terrorist policy, i.e. if you have to go in, they don't 
|come out ;-).  If you wanted to make an expander, just use a dum-dum and 
|notch the tip.  (Whoops, I didn't say that...)  Either way, it's not against
|the Geneva convention because 1) the GC is largely ignored by many 3rd world
|nations, and 2) because they aren't being used against soldiers in a declared
|war, i.e. outside the GCs jurisdiction.  

Wasn't that the Hague Convention that outlawed expanding pro-
jectiles in war? It was before or during the boer war. Expanding 
ammo is widely used by police, Hague Convention or no Hague 
Convention.




-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: urf@sw2001.ki.icl.se (Urban Fredriksson)
Subject: Chobham Armour
Organization: None. I speak only for myself.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 12:44:22 GMT


From urf@sw2001.ki.icl.se (Urban Fredriksson)

There can be two main reasons why Chobham Armour is kept secret, either
composition of manufacturing process. When I first heard about it, I
mostly assumed the latter.

My thoughts centered on explosive welding of metals that cannot
otherwise be bonded, casting of mono-crystalline armour plates or
exotic materials like foamed ceramics interspersed with lots of tiny
tungsten granules.

When I read that they didn't have reactive armour "because they don't
need it", I started wondering if there could be some internal mechanism
performing the same duty. Maybe plates sliding sideways rapidly (that's
the useful thing with RA, forcing the jet to "eat" through more
material, or breaking arrows).

In Military Technology 2/1992 is an article on tank survivability
issues, which also deals with the nature of Chobham Armour.

It is claimed that composite armour tiles consisting of layers of
different materials which aren't permanently fixed to the tank
structure are stacked in pockets between the inside and outside walls
(the outside beeing _only_ for theft prevention). Innermost, there is
also a "controlled-deformation" zone, distribution impact shock over a
larger time and surface. Also, the layers in each tile are said to not
be fixed to each other, but free to shear, either with the help of
pyrotechnics, or thin rubber sheets between them.

The new "heavy" tiles incorporate depleted uranium, it is said, but
what I find hard to believe is the statement that it takes just 15 per
tank to open the pockets, replace the tiles and weld them shut again.
-- 
 Urban Fredriksson urf@icl.se (Or: n.g.u.fredriksson.swe2001@oasis.icl.co.uk)

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: liats3@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (LIANG TIAN)
Subject: Re: -29 information requested
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:49:55 GMT


From liats3@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (LIANG TIAN)

Steven.Schultz@mixcom.mixcom.com (Steven.Schultz) writes:


>From Steven.Schultz <Steven.Schultz@mixcom.mixcom.com>

>I have been looking through the information that I have, and have not
>been able to find the aircraft known as the Sukhoi Su-29. If someone
>out there with a Jane's could give me any information on it, or know's
>anything of it, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
  As far as I know, there is only a Mig-29, and Su-27. Maybe you got the 
Mig and Su designation wrong. BTW, there is going to be a Mig-33, which is
a highly modified version of the -29, with digital avionics etc.
  Hope this help.
/***********************************************************/
				Liang Tian Soon
				liats3@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au
/***********************************************************/


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: Why execute spies? and Re: depleted uranium
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 12:43:50 GMT


From shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)

On 14 Aug 92 18:49:46 GMT, viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) said:

Dan>  creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps) writes:

>>Some exceptions do exist:
>>(1) Julius and Ethel Rosenberg in 1953[?4?]

>   I believe they were executed for treason, rather than just espionage.

Dan> 	This is correct as far as I know.  In addition, both are automatic
Dan> death sentences.  One wonders why "Hanoi Jane" wasn't sentenced as well in
Dan> the Vietnam action?

Because the First Amendment works.  

Jane Fonda didn't do anything except talk.  She didn't reveal
classified information, she didn't give away any secrets.  Treason is
more than just talk.  Treason is a constructive act.  So is espionage.
Even Nixon's Attorney General said so.

Not only wasn't she sentenced, she wasn't even tried (a highly
necessary first step to sentencing, although it must be followed by a
guilty verdict).  She wasn't even indicted.

Public disagreement with government policy is NOT treason.  Even loud
repeated disagreement isn't.  Anyone who thinks it is is guilty of
something much worse than disagreeing.

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous



Newsgroups: sci.military
From:     "Edward J. Rudnicki" (FSAC-SID) <erudnick@pica.army.mil>
Subject:  Depleted Uranium et al
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:14:23 GMT


From     "Edward J. Rudnicki" (FSAC-SID) <erudnick@pica.army.mil>


Some gleanings from the latest INTERNATIONAL DEFENSE REVIEW:

Rheinmetall is developing a 55 cal long 120mm tank gun (current US and
German is 44 cal; French is 52). Effort is underway on a joint French-
German 120mm APFSDS cartridge using a tungsten penetrator (L/D 22 and
dia 27mm, MV 1780 m/s, 560mm RHA @ 2000 m). French developing on their
own a DU version (1740 m/s, 640mm RHA @ 2000m), and they also are
working on a 105mm DU round (1525 m/s, 540mm RHA @ 2000m).

Also a short piece on British/French/German 140mm tank gun, with Germans
developing a W penetrator cartridge and France working on a DU model.


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
"It demoralized them. Not to mention killed them."
     --- 3rd AD officer describing effects of DPICM in ODS

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)
Subject: 50 Years Ago: Sunday, 2 August, 1942
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:20:45 GMT


From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)




From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)

Sunday, 2 August, 1942

Gandhi warns the British government that unless India is granted
independence its people will welcome a Japanese invasion.

Chiang Kai-Shek agrees to General Stilwell's request for Chinese aid in the
recapture of Burma.

Axis bombers continue to attack Malta, but the island's strength has
grown somewhat over the past week with the arrival of more Spitfires from
Gibraltar.

The FBI reports the arrest of 87 enemy aliens in New York City: 66 Germans,
15 Italians, and 6 Japanese.  The FBI states that one Japanese man, a
leader of the Hokoku-Dan Japanese patriotic society, had two dozen maps 
showing air and sea routes on the Pacific coast.

Rumania declares war on Haiti and Nicaragua.

--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--
Bill Thacker			            military@att.att.com
Send submissions for "50 Years Ago" to military-request@att.att.com

"I want to see Japan win the war.  I would not fight against the Japanese
under any circumstances.  My Emperor Hirohito is a good man.  He is my
ruler and I want to obey him." - unidentified Japanese man, quoted by New
York FBI Director P. E. Foxworth
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: liats3@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (LIANG TIAN)
Subject: Re: depleted uranium
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:21:44 GMT


From liats3@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (LIANG TIAN)




From liats3@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au (LIANG TIAN)

arw4@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Aaron R Wininger) writes:


>Question:what are the advantages to using depleted uranium in ammunition? 
  Other than the fact that DU is denser which other posters have mentioned,
I thought there was another effect of DU on armour. It seems that when DU
hits the target, there will be a chemical reaction of DU with the armour,
causing heat(besides the normal heat created by metal on metal), and thus
increasing the armour penetration. I am sure I read this from somewhere
before but I can't find the ref to this. Can anyone who knows care to
clarify this? Thanx.

>How long until succesfully destroyed targets can be scrapped or cannibalized?
>Aaron

/***********************************************************/
				Liang Tian Soon
				liats3@cspyr1.cs.adfa.oz.au
/***********************************************************/


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: steve@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Steve Bridges)
Subject: Sci.military postings (one more time.....)
Organization: NCR Corporation, Corporate Law Department
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:15:45 GMT


From steve@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Steve Bridges)


Many thanks to all the people who sent me mail about the articles that
didn't get out.  The re-posts were held on our gateway overnight for some
reason.  The network people assure me that they went out today (13 August), 
and you should be receiving them shortly.  If you don't see them by 
Saturday, please let me know, and I will re-post them again.

Steve
-- 
Steve Bridges, Programmer/Analyst| NCR - Law Department, WHQ-5
steve@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM ___| Phone:(513)-445-4486 622-4486 (VOICEplus)
Reserve sci.military moderator| "The airplane does not recognize attitude,
providing a maneuver is conducted at one G" -- A.M. "Tex" Johnston

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: wab@well.sf.ca.us (Doc Benzene)
Subject: Re: How to spike a gun?
Organization: Hell Hole, Inc.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:34:57 GMT


From wab@well.sf.ca.us (Doc Benzene)


From wab@well.sf.ca.us (Doc Benzene)

In article <BsKCnp.E2s@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> dgfritz@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Doug Fritz) writes:
>
>From dgfritz@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Doug Fritz)
>
>Spiking a gun such as a cannon or artillery piece disables the
>gun, but how does a foot soldier spike a gun?

Aha, I knew reading all those Hornblower books would come in
handy one day...

Usually, foot soldiers didn't spike guns; it was a job left
some sort of armory specialist.  Basically, you "spiked" a gun
by driving a metal cone into the touch hole, blocking the hole
so that you couldn't ignite a loaded charge.  Spiking only
disabled a gun temporarily; another armorer could clear the
spike with drill in less than a couple of hours.  Blowing off the
trunions, the lugs on the gun that seated it into the truck,
would permanently disable the piece.  Or you could burst it
with an overcharge, but that was rather dangerous.

Actually, I've never heard a description of how the trunions
were blown off artillery pieces.  Seems a rather tricky job of
demo. work to do with just black powder.

Newsgroups: sci.military