HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nissim@mary.fordham.edu (Leonard J. Nissim)
Subject: Re: Changed allegiance (Was: Say it's so! Baseball in Tampa Bay!!!)
Organization: Fordham University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords:  Dodgers  Yankees
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:19:00 GMT
X-Posted-From: mary.fordham.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <169pfiINN1oi@hal.com>, dougm@hal.com (Doug Moran) writes...
> 
>Would Cubs fans move quietly over and start rooting for the White Sox?
>Or Mets fans for the Yankees?
> 
>How many NY Giants or Dodgers fans changed their allegiance to the
^^^^^^^^^              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Yankees in the 50s?  Does anyone have any figures, or is all the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>evidence anecdotal?
>-- 
>    Doug Moran        | Heck, picture if aliens ever landed in California.
>   dougm@hal.com      | Instead of running away or even inquiring about the
> {...}!hal.com!dougm  | secrets of the universe, *Californians* would probably
> HaL Computer Systems | ask the BEMs if they had any new cuisine!

Some anecdotal evidence; I was a child in New Jersey (but only a 20-minute
drive from NY City) in 1958 when they moved.   

Of the dozens of Dodger fans in my school at the time, *none*  changed al-
legiance to the Yankees, then the only remaining ML team in the area.  It 
would have been inconceivable to do so, having fought the Yankees in the 
World Series of '56, '55, '53, '52, and (for older fans) '49, '47, and '41.  
Some of us continued to root for the Dodgers long distance, and some simply
were too depressed to follow baseball much at all.  (Most of these became  
Mets fans in '62.)  

Of the dozens of fans of the jints, a substantial proportion (perhaps one
third) did become Yankee fans in '58.  To us (Dodger fans), it just proved
that some jints fans were lower than dogs--no loyalty.  

-Leonard Nissim, nDf  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: RC/27 for 2Bs
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 01:06:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.200631.21249@sni.ca> dave@silver.sni.ca (Dave Till) writes:
>In article <1992Aug11.224039.13515@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>>AMERICAN LEAGUE
>>Roberto Alomar, Toronto		8.00	; but no, he is not American :-)
>Isn't he from Puerto Rico, and isn't Puerto Rico an American possession?
>I thought Puerto Ricans *were* Americans.  Am I wrong?  Has this changed?

Depending on how you define "American."  (Ted Frank, can you help us out
here?)  Puerto Rico is an American possession, but I don't think Puerto Ricans
are American citizens for these reasons:

1.	They don't pay the federal income tax.

2.	They don't vote in federal elections.

3.	Puerto Rico is neither a state nor a federal territory.  The full name
	of Puerto Rico is "Commonwealth of Puerto Rico," I believe.

They have referenda every 4 years on whether to apply for statehood, become
independent, or stay a commonwealth of the U. S., and I believe the forces are
fairly evenly divided, but the people who want the status quo always win out
by small margins...

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dave@bradley.bradley.edu (David Vessell)
Subject: Re: bye bye san fran!!! hello tampa bay
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 15:39:00 GMT

clmn@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Coleman) writes:

>I'm not usually a flame artist but, speaking as a White Sox fan, I must say
>that Tampa Bay has already accomplished this feat.  First, the local politicos
>built a dome and then started hunting down teams.  Bad, bad form.  Whay I'd
>really like to know, though, is why the Tampa-St Pete area requires a dome
>in any case, much less the Suncoast Monstrosity which is apparently barely
>fit for tractor pulls.

I think you've got your story backwards.  Yes, the Tampa Bay people put out
feelers for teams (at the time they had no idea when expansion would take
place) and the White Sox were a loose brick, so to speak.  It was the White
Sox subsequent interest in Tampa that got the Suncoast Dome (and new
Comiskey) built.

If you don't think Tampa needs a dome for baseball, you obviously aren't
familiar with Florida weather.  While I would like to have seen a
convertible dome like Toronto has, I haven't heard many bad things about
the Suncoast dome.  Of course, I might not be listening in the right places
either (hard to keep touch with Tampa while living in Peoria).  And how the 
hell would you know how good the Suncoast dome is for baseball anyway?  No 
one's played baseball in it, have they?  The arena footballers seem to have 
no problem with it....

-- 
=========*davE*.....making the world safe for intelligent dance music.=========
--(David Vessell)--(Bradley University Computing Services)-(dave@bradley.edu)--
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: Absolutely Horrific Red Sox-Indians Game
Organization: Clark University
Date: 13 AUG 92 13:54:36 GMT

Oh my God, that was the most miserable game I have witnessed in
a long time.  The memory of it is hanging over and around me like
the remnants of a nightmare.  How can the Red Sox do this?  How can
they be so staggeringly bad?  I felt terrible for Daryl Irvine --
sitting in the dugout, he looked like he was on the verge of suicide.
And John Dopson looked like he might be willing to help him do it.

I mean, it was amazing!  Like someone pulled a string, and everything
just fell apart, pieces of Red Sox flying all over the place.

Sorry to ramble, I'm still in shock.  I'm beginning to realize why you
Sox fans out there are so demented.

The most enjoyable part of the game was listening to Jerry Remy,
the Red Sox cable-station color man.  Jerry is great.  He has a
beautiful Fall River accent.  I especially love it when he says
"Mike Hargrove".  It comes out "Haaaanhgrove" -- somehow he gives
the "a" sound a nasal quality.  When the Sox had Dana Kiecker it
was hilarious because Jerry pronounced his name, quite clearly,
"Daner Kieckaaah".  What a guy.  If only he did radio, so I
could hear him but avoid having to actually SEE the game.

Bob Zupcic is a bright shining beacon in a gloomy wasteland.
I bet the Sox trade him.

Heather
Jack Clark University (official name change pending)
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dave@silver.sni.ca (Dave Till)
Subject: Re: Cito Gaston- Mediocre manager??
Organization: Where Are The Guzmans Of Yesteryear [Sorrows Division]?
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:37:22 GMT

In article <10010666@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella) writes:
>In rec.sport.baseball, dave@silver.sni.ca (Dave Till) writes:
>
>> The Jays had a good record with Jimy Williams managing.  But Jimy One-M's
>> record is not as good as Cito's.  Williams won over 90 games only once;
>> Cito has done it twice.  (I count 1989 as "over 90", since they were
>> 12-24 when he took over, and they won 77 the rest of the way.)
>
>So in other words, they each did it once, and your giving Cito the benefit of
>the doubt on an incomplete season.  Hardly a convincing argument - I'd prefer
>to see the career records, rather than "number of 90 win seasons" as a metric.
>Not that I'm doubtin Cito is better than Jimy; I haven't paid enough attention
>to really notice.

I counted the Jays' 89-73 season in 1989 as "over 90" because Cito would
have gotten the team to win more than 12 of the first 36 games.  (For one
thing, he would not have led off Tom "TWG" Lawless in one game, as Jimy
did.)

A better metric is winning percentage, of course.  I don't have my
stat books with me, but I know that Cito's winning percentage is higher than
Jimy's.

>> As for the Jays' "awesome talent":  the team is good, but they aren't
>> exactly the '75 Reds or the '84 Tigers.
>
>Hey, man, try picking some examples from this decade - my children weren't born
>in the 70's or 80's (OK, so they're not yet born in the 90's - at least none
>that I know about...)

There haven't been any really awesome teams in this decade.  The most
recent awesome team, IMHO, was the '89 A's (and they weren't as overwhelming
as the '84 Tigers were).
-- 
--Dave Till, SNI, Sietec Open Systems Division (dave@snitor.uucp or "Hey, you")
"My Canada Includes The World Series" -- banner seen at SkyDome
Blue Jays all the way in '92!   (Allons-y Expos!)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: nayar@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Naresh Nayar)
Subject: Re: Mets draft protection
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 21:27:10 GMT
Distribution: rec
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Rochester

In article <1992Aug19.202547.26052@leland.Stanford.EDU>, paladin@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jason Gische) writes:
|> I was just wondering what the folks on the net think the New York Mets are going to do about the expansion draft.  I'm a Mets fan living in the Bay Area (so I'll never get to see them again after this year.)  I haven't been able to follow much of their mi|> nor leagues, but I see their main problem being who should they bother to protect rather then which 15.
|> 
|> If I had to guess, I would say they will definitley protect:
|> 
|> 	Magadan, Hundley, Johnson, Bonilla
|> 	Gooden, Fernandez, Saberhagen, Schourek, Young, Franco
|>

I think Magadan is a free agent.
They have to protect Murray because he is a 10 year man. 
                                                           
I would also protect Donnels, Burnitz, Howell and their AAA closer
(his name escapes for the moment). Just to make it 15, protect
Vince Coleman also.

Naresh				     	
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: chuck@maui.webo.dg.com (chuck noyes)
Subject: Re: Reds Fans
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 20:50:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Data General Corporation, Westboro, MA.
Followup-To: Reds Fans

Article 78113 of rec.sport.baseball:
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: miked@cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Davey)
Subject: Attention: Reds Fans
Originator: miked@pterodactyl.cis.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 14:02:29 GMT

>Saturday's win was certanly ugly but Sunday's loss was even worse. Bolton
>gives up a two run dinger and balks in a run and I turn the radio off in the
>eighth with the score 5-1 Giants.  At least on Saturday I could take solace
>in the fact that Hammond went 6 1/3 innings with 0 ER`s, 3 H`s and 3 K`s.  
>This is the second strong start for Hammond and offers hope the Reds can
>hang until September.  Bolton, however, offers no hope it seems.  As Marty 
>said, "It seems everybody in the park knew he was going to swing accept
>Bolton and Afenir."  Maybe Bolton thought he could tee up the home run 
>hospital pitch in a big NL park, unlike at Fenway but he was sorely mistaken.
>Friday on "Extra Innings" on WLW Lou said that the next guy they would start
>was Pugh who is currently at Nashville, he was asked if Bankhead would get
>a start and he specifically said that Pugh is the next man to be tried.  
>Hopefull, Pugh will take Bolton's next start and if he does not work out,
>Bankhead will get a start of else they will make a trade and bring in a 
>veteran.  Maybe O`neal will be put on the block for real this time.  I know
>he is a favorit but it seems all he does at the plate is bitch about balls
>and strikes with the ump.  Didn't he ever hear the one about the boy who
>cried wolf?  Anyway, if the Reds continue to take two of three from each team
>they face and throw in a sweep against the Dodgers or Astros or Giants along
>the way they will be in fine shape come Septmeber 9, 10, 15, 16, 17.  
>The Braves have got to falter somewhere along the line.  Dont give up hope!


>--Mike D.--

So I take it that Bolton isn't doing too well over there??  What are is numbers
since the trade?  Hatcher been more than decent.  He spent a few days out of
the lineup with a hamstring, but he seems to add some life to an otherwise DULL
team (stealing home was AWESOME (my 13 year old's reaction)).




+----------------------------------------------+
| Chuck Noyes                              DGC |
| Chuck@maui.webo.dg.com                       |
+----------------------------------------------+ 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jeffh@pisces.sps.mot.com (Jeff Heilner)
Subject: A's Mailing List
Originator: root@mogate.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:17:57 GMT


Does an A's mailing list currently exist?

If so , could the person in charge please send me info on how to join.

Thanks.


Oh!....I've been having trouble with the news machine here, if you could  
drop me a mail message confirming that this post showed up at your site,
I'd sure appreciate it. Thanks.


--
-----------------------------------------------------
Jeff Heilner 
Motorola, Inc.
2100 E. Elliot Rd. MD EL512
Tempe, AZ 85284
Email: jeffh@pisces.sps.mot.com (NeXT)
*** A'S *** SHARKS *** WARRIORS *** RAIDERS ***
-----------------------------------------------------
From: acw@sbmsg1.UUCP (Alvin White)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Braves Schedule
Date: 11 Aug 92 13:02:27 GMT
Reply-To: acw@sbmsg1.UUCP (Alvin White)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Southern Bell - MSG  Atlanta, Ga

In article <1992Aug7.235121.1658@sequent.com> jds@sequent.com (Jerry Simmering) writes:
>
>  Can someone tell me what the braves schedule looks like Sept 5th thru 
>  the 12th? I may get a chance to head to Atlanta that week and would 
>  like to see a game or two.
>
>  Jerry Simmering


Jerry,

I tried to mail this but it bounced.  The Braves schedule is
follows.

Sept 4   Phillies in Atlanta   7:40
Sept 5   Phillies in Atlanta   7:40
Sept 6   Phillies in Atlanta   2:40

Sept 7   Dodgers  in Atlanta   2:10
Sept 8   Dodgers  in Atlanta   5:10

Sept 9   Reds     in Atlanta   7:40
Sept 10  Reds     in Atlanta   5:10

Sept 11-13  Braves in Houston   

If you want attend a game in Atlanta, BUY YOUR TICKET NOW!!!
I think most week end games are sold out and the Dodgers (I
know they're having a non-Dodger year but Braves fans still
like to boo them) and the Reds will sell out.  You can call 
"Ticketmaster" at 404-249-6400 and buy tickets over the phone.
Good luck and enjoy the games!!

Go Braves!!!

Alvin White
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 13:29:30 EDT
From: <DGS4@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Expansion Boosting Stats??

              1973-76          1977-80      Increase
AL HR           114/team       135/team         18%
NL HR           108/team       116/team          7%

AL BA           .258           .267             3.5%
NL BA           .255           .259             1.6%

Just the fact that Peter Gammons brought up the subject makes me leery
(AAAAGH, that reminds of how Tim Leary sabotaged the Orioles).  However,
just on these few basic numbers, there does appear to be an effect.  I'd
like to hear from the sabermetricians if there have been attempts to
explain these effects, what those explanations entail, and still, if
there is an effect, people's guestimations of who they think might have
a MONSTER season next year.
Dennis Shea
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Subject: Re: running up the score (WAS CRY BABY: PIRATES CRUSHED 15-0)
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 20:09:40 GMT


In article <1992Aug17.192807.11152@das.harvard.edu> vreddy@das.harvard.edu  
(Venkatesh Reddy) writes:
> In article <1992Aug17.190657.9088@cs.rose-hulman.edu>,  
rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert) writes:
> |> What a team is doing in this case is saying 
> |> '*this run* is so important that we're willing to sacrifice our future 
> |> scoring potential for it.' 
> |> (i.e. they're *not* maximizing theier run scoring potential)
> |> I can see this in a 3-3 game in the ninth inning, but I'm not so 
> |> sure that it's reasonable with a double-digit lead.

> And you're telling us you would be MAD at the Pirates (or whatever team you 
> support avidly) 
(the Brewers) but I did follow the Pirates (secondarily) in the 70's.
> if they "ran up the score" against the Braves? If so, then fine,
> but if not, then I would say this is a case of sore losing.<stf del'd> 

Not mad. But a bit upset. Why is the 12th run more important than runs
13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,...?

> I figure they must've done a damn good job to win 12 - 2. The Pirates gave  
up
> the 15 runs, and the BRaves just kept going. I suppose if a Brave had, with  
the
> bases loaded, swung for home, you would've criticized him for not just  
trying to 
> get a normal hit. C'mon... blowouts are part of the game, and a team is  
gonna score as many runs as they can... regardless of how they do it. 

A team should try to score as many runs as they can. Many of these
'strategic' options *don't* increase run scoring potential.
i.e. they're *not* trying to maximize run scoring.
A stolen base attempt by Jay Bell decreases the probability that 
batter Barry Bonds will score. is the decrease worth it?

john rickert
rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: str@maredsous.Eng.Sun.COM (Todd Rader)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: A's Mailing List
Date: 18 Aug 1992 00:23:20 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: str@maredsous.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: maredsous

In article 23329@newsgate.sps.mot.com, jeffh@pisces.sps.mot.com (Jeff Heilner) writes:
%
%Does an A's mailing list currently exist?

Yes...

%If so , could the person in charge please send me info on how to join.

Well, now, the usual way is to send a request to
athletics-request@maredsous.eng.sun.com, but since I
already got the message, I'll put you on as soon as I know my
mailer can reach your address.

%Thanks.

De nada.

%Oh!....I've been having trouble with the news machine here, if you could  
%drop me a mail message confirming that this post showed up at your site,
%I'd sure appreciate it. Thanks.

Consider this a confirmation.

-todd
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Subject: Re: 1992 r.s.bb Mock Expansion Draft - Update #2
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 00:49:40 GMT
Organization: Boo! 

In <19244@ector.cs.purdue.edu> gritter@cs.purdue.EDU (Carl R. Gritter) writes:

>In article  <1992Aug12.175750.13011@news2.cis.umn.edu> kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu (Dave Nobody Kirsch) writes:

>>to the draft, with two exceptions (1) Players that were signed at age 19 or 
>>older and have less than three years of professional experience are
>>implicitly protected and (2) Players signed at age 18 or younger with less
>>than four years of professional experience are implicitly protected.

>Isn't it true that if a player that falls under category 1 or 2 is
>brought up to the majors, he loses this "implicit" protection?

Well, not exactly, but you have the right idea. If the player is placed on
the club's 40 man roster, he then loses that protection.  Now, in general,
players are only placed on the 40 man roster for one of 2 reasons:

1) The player now has 3/4 years of pro experience, and the club wants to
protect him from the Rule V draft.

2) The player is called up to the major leagues - only players on the 40 man
roster are able to play in the majors.

The one exception to this in recent years was Todd Van Poppel, who signed
a major league contract and thus was placed on the 40 man roster and lost
that "protection" as soon as he signed.

(And yes, once a player is placed on the 40 man roster, there's no going back)

Greg 
-- 
  spira@panix.com       "The one-O delivery to Fisk.  He swings.  Long drive,  
 cmcl2!panix!spira      left field!  If it stays fair, it's gone!  Home Run!"  
158-17 Riverside Dr.                     Ned Martin, 10/22/75   
Whitestone NY 11357          (Insert your favorite baseball moment here)
From: vreddy@das.harvard.edu (Venkatesh Reddy)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: 3 division in N.L. : West, Mideast, East
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:10:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: das.1992Aug12.141051.7696
Distribution: na
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University

In article <1992Aug11.155544.6624@bony1.bony.com>, billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug10.205725.14072@leland.Stanford.EDU> bohnert@leland.Stanford.EDU (matthew bohnert) writes:
|> >Someone mentioned this a while back, I believe.  It makes even more sense
|> >now, IMHO, if the Giants move to Florida.
|> >
|> >NL West  	  NL Mideast		NL East
|> >
|> >Dodgers		   Cubs                  Mets
|> >Padres             Cardinals             Atlanta
|> >Astros             Pirates               FLA Giants
|> >Colorado           Reds                  FLA Marlins
|> >		   Phillies	         Expos
|> 
|> I don't have a map handy, but is Philadelphia west of Atlanta?

I like the idea a lot, but what do we do about pennant races? I say the top
3 teams (top from each division) and the best of the rest to make up a fourth`team, and then a single elimination playoffs to the pennant. But, would
they go for it?

-- Venk Reddy --

Born 'n' bred in Georgia and the Carolinas, and damn proud of it!
Go Hornets, Braves, Falcons, and Gamecocks! :)

PS: I just LOVE what you did with the NL East... speaking as a Braves fan of
course. No offense to you Mets, Giants, Marlins, or Expos fans, but I
know in years to come, you will be saying the same thing when Atlanta is out
of its prime. :)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: wlarkin@panix.com (Ward Larkin)
Subject: Village Voice Trivia Quiz  21-30
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:21:39 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

The following appeared in the August 18, 1992 issue
of the Village Voice.

"Can't Anybody Here Take This Quiz?"

Baseball ... the perfect game, the game of men at
work and of fathers playing catch with sons on a
field of dreams in the glory of their times.  We
enter the cathedral of baseball as supplicants --
but as American supplicants, in that most American
cathedral of democratic sancity that is uniquely
American and democratic, a Game of Ball being played
by noble Men who are in fact Boys, themselves
playing on infinite American cornfields of perfect
democratic geometry.  Slowly the Game proceeds,
slowly, for we are thinking.  It is in this spirit
that we present the following quiz by Dan Gutman, 
author of Baseball Babylon.  Rhymes, timeless rhymes.


The following are questions 21 thru 30 out of 40.

21. Why did Tim Raines say he always slid head first?

22. On whom did the FBI place a hidden transmitter
    during the 1985 Pittsburgh drug scandal?

23. What player described cocaine as "a demon in me"
    and said 40 per cent of all major leaguers used
    it?

24. Which player boasted of sneaking cocaine into
    the U.S. from Venezuela by hiding it in a catcher's
    mitt?

25. Who threw a no-hitter under the influence of LSD
    in 1970?

26. Which player said he got high every night for 10
    years, and was caught smuggling 165 pounds of
    marijuana into Puerto Rico?

27. Name three Hall of Famers who drank themselves to
    death.

28. Which Yankee pitcher was an alcoholic, tried to
    kill himself three times, burned down his house,
    and spent time in a mental institution?

29. Name the ex-Met who, in a single week, threatened
    his wife with a gun, was taken to jail, checked 
    into an alcohol rehab clinic, and acknowledged
    fathering an illegitimate child. 

30. Which Hall of Famer died a peniless alcoholic but
    was saved from a pauper's grave by a $350 check 
    from the National League?


The answers will be posted in a week.