HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: V6 .vs. inline 6
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:56:20 GMT
	<BOWERS.92Aug11134458@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov>
	<SHANTANU.92Aug12093508@poseidon.oakhill.uucp>
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.

In article <SHANTANU.92Aug12093508@poseidon.oakhill.uucp> shantanu@poseidon.oakhill.uucp (Shantanu Ganguly) writes:

>In article <BOWERS.92Aug11134458@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov> bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers) writes:

>>In article <53060056@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com> leonglaw@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com (Lawrence Leong) writes:

>>>In rec.autos, k33074s@kaira.hut.fi (Micke Bergman) writes:

>>>|>The flat 6's (boxer) have the same "perfect" balance
>>>|>as the inline six's, don't they?

>>>|Yes ! Both boxer and 180 deg. V-engines are perfectly balanced to the
>>>|first and second order forces and momentums.

>>>Isn't a 180deg V-engine a boxer?

>>No, they are not the same.  The difference is in the crank.  If the
>>two opposing pistons meet TDC (top dead center) and BDC (bottom dead
>>center) simultaneously, then the engine is a boxer ( the pistons move
>>in and out together in a `boxing' fashion, hence the name).  If,
>>however, the pistons that oppose are at TDC and BDC at the same time,
>>the engine is a 180 degree V.

>Seems like in a 4 cylinder boxer (Subaru engines), there will be two
>power strokes for every four strokes (with two cylinders firing for
>each power stroke), while in a regular four cylinder, each stroke will
>be a power stroke (with one cylinder firing at each stroke). 
>Won't the 4 cylinder boxer produce a lot of nvh?

No.  Let's try this.

| = piston
* = spark
I = crank
- = rod

              |-----I
                  I-----|
           *|-----I
                    I-----|


            |-----I
                    I-----|*
              |-----I
                  I-----|


              |-----I
                  I-----|
            |-----I
                    I-----|*


           *|-----I
                    I-----|
              |-----I
                  I-----|

So you get 4 even power strokes, and perfect primary balance.  You
could build your crank in such a manner that two power strokes were
simultaneous (in bikes, when this is done on a twin, it is called a
"twingle", so on a four, would it be a "quingle"?), but why?

--
...ignoring the fact that most Alfas spend their time cruising for
chicks, most Datsuns being washed and most Porsches in parking spaces
marked "Doctor"...              -Henry N. Manney III, Road and Track
Al Bowers                                 bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov
From: johnc@yuma.acns.colostate.edu (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Consumers Union needs a new driver
Summary: They DO drive like the owner would
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:09:45 GMT
Followup-To: rec.autos
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <+=fyapm@rpi.edu> johnsh@aix.rpi.edu (Hugh Johnson) writes:
>In the most recent issue of Consumer Reports, they tested some heavy-duty
>sports cars.  However, I think they need a new test driver.  Witness:
>
>                           0-60
>                           ----     
>Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo     6.1
>Chevrolet Corvette LT1      5.5
>
>What, was he starting in third gear? These times are about a second off of 
>what these cars are capable of.  Now, granted, CR isn't an enthusiast's
>magazine, but if they're going to report on sports cars, they should drive
>them like the people who buy these cars would drive them.  I guess they've

They do drive them like the owners would drive them.  Most automobile 
publications measure 0-60 time using a rather brutal drag racing start (at
least to the extent the car is capable) that does nothing to enhance the
lifespan of the drivetrain.  As CR explains in their annual auto issue, in
discussing their testing procedures, they use a more "normal" street start.
If you owned one of these things, would you wind it up to 4,000 rpm and drop
the clutch at every stoplight?  I doubt it.  These cars can get to 60 mph
faster, but few people (especially their owners) would drive them that way
all the time, or even very often.

CR is not the final word, but their testing procedures are consistant and they
explain them annually.  I would suggest that the above numbers are closer to
what the owners of these cars are likely to see than the numbers published in
most of the enthusiast mags.  If the owner wants to know that his or her LT1
can hit 60 in 4.7 seconds, fine.  Look in Car and Driver.  If the owner wants
to know what the car will do without trashing the drivetrain and tires, the
CR numbers are probably more representative.  I like having enough power, and
I'm fond of American V-8s, but, somehow, 0-60 in 5.5 or 6 seconds seems
adequate for daily transportation and fun, without abusing an expensive
machine.

  John Cooley
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: synth@deepthought.unm.edu (Synth F. Oberheim)
Subject: Re: Care to comment on Alfa vs. Miata?
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 23:25:45 GMT
Organization: SynthMedia Productions Ltd.: The Danes Call It Quality


leonglaw@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com (Lawrence Leong) writes:

Lawrence> When Mazda designed the Miata, they used the "Kansei Engineering"
Lawrence> concept.  One of the "wants" was a fast roadster, so to give the
Lawrence> illusion, they designed in all sorts of traditional roadster
Lawrence> features including duplicating the exhaust note of an MG.

From what I read, Mazda engineers analyzed the exhaust notes of *hundreds*
of different cars to find what was most aesthetically pleasing.

Lawrence> Well, so much for the sound effects.  For speed effects, the
Lawrence> speedo is calibrated to read 5-10% faster than the actual.

Many, many cars in production today have their speedometers calibrated high,
whether intentionally or unintentionally.  Well, so much for slander ...


===============================================================================
    :: :: :: :: ::     Synth F.    synth@deepthought.unm.edu    U S E N E T   
 :: :: :: :: :: :: ::  Oberheim    synth@yenta.alb.nm.us             in color!
===============================================================================
"...what's happening... we're huntin wabbits"
"actually, muslim wabbits"
    -- LAPD squad-car computer messages, quoted in the Christopher Report, 7/91
From: hcs@adpgate.UUCP (Howard Schultz)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Police Tauri
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:46:40 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: ADP Dealer Services R&D, Portland, OR

yes, the automatic SHO is for real, they had one at the SHO registry
in ILL, 2 weeks ago.  Engine size has been upped to 3.2.

it will be interesting to see reveiwed by car and driver.
From: johnsh@aix.rpi.edu (Hugh Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Mustang SVO
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:39:00 GMT
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY

In article <14005@auspex-gw.auspex.com>tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett) writes:
>A Mustang SHO?  I don't think that this would have been (or is) a good idea.
>In the first place why would you want to substitute a V-6 with less
>horsepower and torque for the existing V-8?  I don't imagine the SHO
>V-6 is any lighter than the V-8.

I think the idea is not to have a Mustang SHO replace the 5.0, but to have it
as a different model.  The Mustang 5.0 and a Mustang SHO would each have its
own unique qualities, characterizing them bothe as spirited, powerful sports
cars, but with different tempraments.  The 5.0 would still be the Grunt n' Go
machine, while the SHO would be a more refined (read: luxurious?) high-speed
machine (everyone knows that the SHO engine will outaccelerate the 5.0 from
about 90MPH on up.  A moot point, but a point).  However, with the new 'stang
getting a spanking-new modular V8 soon in the future, I doubt the SHO 'stang
would ever happen.  It'd be neat to see an aftermarket company do it, though.

>What I would like to see is an updated and more powerful Mustang SVO,
>maybe with a turbocharged V-6.  That would be worth it I think.

...or maybe a supercharged modular 32-valve DOHC V8? Schwing!

===============================================================================
# Hugh Johnson                     # "What would this country be without this #
# Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute #  great land of ours?" - R. Reagan        # 
# Troy, New York                   #                                          #
======================================= "Sit down and shut up!" - G. Bush     #
# Internet:                           #                                       #
# johnsh@rpi.edu                      # "Don't forget to vot!" - D. Quayle    #
# johnsonhw%phvax.dnet@smithkline.com #                                       #
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: anthony@lpi.liant.com (Anthony Beissner)
Subject: Re: Camery SE
Organization: Language Processors Inc., Framingham MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:35:49 GMT

In article <16c3oeINNjj4@function.mps.ohio-state.edu> qzhang@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Qing Zhang) writes:
>I am preparing to buy a Camery SE (V6). Is there anyone who knows 
>the dealer's invoice price and how much will be a real good deal?
>I also like to know how much it will cost to add a sunroof and
>anti-lock breaks. Thank you in advance.

Good luck finding one.  I was on a waiting list for over three months at "The
Toyota Store" here in Austin, and they never did get me a car.  This was
after some of the worst "saleman games" I have ever encountered.  I finally 
retrieved my deposit in disgust and am now waiting for October for the '93
models to show up.  Guess who isn't going to sell me a car. ;-)

By the way, the deal they finally gave me was for $500 off of MSRP.  And I feel
this discount might have something to do with their not finding a car for me.
-- 
===============================================================================
Just say no to .signature files.        |             anthony@rmc.liant.com
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.autos,ba.market.vehicles
From: charlie@leland.Stanford.EDU (Charlie Channel, Jr.)
Subject: 4 Sale:  1982 MBZ Turbodiesel
Organization: Stanford U
Distribution: ba
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 20:33:08 GMT

Posting for a friend:

1982 Turbodiesel MBZ.  Seller asking $8K for it.  Nice machine.

Call Don at 415/854-8898.

C
From: nyberg@willow.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Jason William Nyberg)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: V6 .vs. inline 6
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:39:08 GMT


I have an Eagle Talon with a 2L 4cylinder engine.  I am curious as to
why there are counterbalances on the crankshaft.  There are two pairs
of counterbalances, each at opposite ends of a stroke.  It seems to me
that the counterbalances are just working against each other, and the
engine would work fine without them.  If the mass is neccessary, put it
in a flywheel or something.  Are they there to keep the crankshaft from
being stressed by the pistons/conrods?

-- 
Jason Nyberg                Amiga... The Eagle Talon of Computers
nyberg@ctron.com

"Work is the curse of the drinking class"      W. C. Feilds

Disclaimer: My opinions are just that...
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Subject: Re: Stealth? NOT!
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 19:08:15 GMT

rmc1862@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov (Rodger M. Cliff) writes:
>In article <1992Aug14.182046.15921@koko.csustan.edu>, james@koko.csustan.edu (Jonas Grumpy) writes...
>>In article <jimf.713815331@centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>>>The car's construction
>>>will have a lot more effect on the radar signature than its paint,
>>>assuming of course that they didn't start developing radar-absorbant
>>>paint while I wasn't paying attention.

>>What about metallic colors versus arcrylic enamel. I think the metallic
>>flakes would increase the radar sig.

>A few years ago, I talked with the then sales manager at Innovisions Research 
>(makers of the stealth car bra) and he said that their research indicated a 
>smaller radar profile with non-metallic paints, even on steel bodied cars.

The original poster (G.C.J. Timm) said "according to the Car Rags,
black cars DO have smaller radar signatures."  I said (or tried to
say) the color doesn't matter since the pigments are
radar-transparent.  I'll agree that metallic flakes will improve the
radar signature, but that's not a color difference -- a nonmetallic
white car would have the same radar characteristics.

Regardless this is a moot point even for metallic vs. nonmetallic
paints.  The difference between return signal strength between the two
is measurable *but not significant* compared to the return off the
body of the car (unless the construction is particularly stealthy, a
very rare occurrance).  That's the difference between paint and
construction that I spoke of originally.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com
From: keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov (Larry Keys)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Auto Accident Claims
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:35:00 GMT
Organization: National Institute of Standards & Technology

Help,

On Monday 8/10/92 i was asked by our group secretary it that was
my car that had been hit in the parking lot.  I said that you're
kidding, right.  I went out to the parking lot and sure enough, there
was a car sitting in the "grassy median" unattended, and smack up
against my car's rear bumper.  As it turns out the owner, got out of 
his car, left it in gear (this is an automatic) and didn't use the
parking brake.

Anyway, an adjuster from his insurance company is supposed to call me
within the next few days.  In the mean time i have visited several body
shops to get estimates for the damage (rear bumper shoved-in on an angle,
and a small dent in the body).  My questions are:

-	should i expect that this claims adjuster should
	give me a check for an amount equal to one of the
	estimates that i was quoted?

-	if the claims adjuster estimates lower than the body shop
	estimates do i have to accept this?

-	my car was covered with a car cover at the time it was hit. 
	The collision made a hole in the cover.  is the claims adjuster
	required to pay for this also?

-	are there any other things that i should know?	

BTW, respond ASAP, because i would like to be "armed" with the answers
to this information before i talk to the adjuster.  Post or E-mail.


I appreciate any and all responses, thanks,
                                                   .              
                                                 /                
Larry                            __/    ______ /                  
keys@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov       /                \                 
                         _ _ _      __      _____  \------- ===   
            ---------- /  __ /    /  /    /__  __/            \   
         /            /  / ____  /  /       / /                |  
        |            / /___/  / /  /__   __/ /__           \ =\    
        /_____       \______/  /_____ / /______/        ---/  OUCH!
             \_____           2 liter 16v       \_______/         
                                                                              
      

From: leonglaw@hpsgm2.sgp.hp.com (Lawrence Leong)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 05:14:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Cassette player head cleaner
Organization: HP Singapore
Newsgroups: rec.autos

In rec.autos, larrigan@eeserv.ee.umanitoba.ca (John Larrigan) writes:

|The "clean" light just went on in my car stereo which means the head
|has to be cleaned.  The owners manual says to use a commercial cassette
|head cleaner.  Does anyone have any tips or recommendations on which
|brand or type to use???

Is the head accessible with Q-tips?  If so, go the alcohol/q-tip route.
You'll actually remove more gunk that way, and clean the capstan and rollers
(some contortions may be necessary to keep the cover open and do the cleaning
simultaneously).

Commercial head cleaners tend to be of either abrasive or non-abrasive type.

Steer clear of the abrasive type.  They also remove layers of your tape head
:-(.

The non-abrasive type only removes the oxide from the actual playing surface
(and sometimes not all of it).  Build up alongside the tape path is not
removed, so you still get sound degradation.

|
|Thanks in advance

You're welcome.

lawrence

|
|John L.
From: geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: CRX vs Del Sol
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:58:26 GMT
Followup-To: rec.autos
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Menlo Park, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: purplehaze.corp.sun.com



In article <92232.192838CARIAN@auvm.american.edu> <CARIAN@auvm.american.edu> 
writes:

>The removable top looks pretty heavy and bulky, though. I wonder why
>they didn't go with the automatic removal mechanism like they have
>in the model they sell in Japan.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Honda was afraid the automatic
mechanism was considered too gimmicky for the US market; they were afraid 
it would be perceived as potentially troublesome.


>For the record, I like the styling of the new Prelude also.

I thought it was a little awkward looking at first, but its grown on me.



Geoff


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Geoff Miller                    + + + + + + + +        Sun Microsystems
geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM  + + + + + + + +     Menlo Park, California
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
From: ramsey@kona.cs.ucla.edu (Brenda Ramsey)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Base price for Toyota Celica GT
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:31:06 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Originator: ramsey@kona.cs.ucla.edu

Does anyone know the base price (list) of a 92 Toyota
Celica GT ?  I know there is a significant markup on
all vehicles - I just want to offer the lowest
possible price.


-- 
Brenda Ramsey  (213) 825-3643
UCLA Computer Science Department
ramsey@CS.UCLA.EDU
..!(uunet,ucbvax,rutgers)!cs.ucla.edu!ramsey
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer)
Subject: Honda Civic Bashing continues...
Reply-To: dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 20:35:05 GMT

In article <1293@bridge2.NSD.3Com.COM>, mtt@ESD.3Com.COM (Michael Throm) writes:
|> Well your NOT alone.  I have a '91 civic hatchback and have had workmanship
|> and petty design problems tarnish my belief in Honda.  The doors don't fit 
|> properly and rattle when driving on silghtly rough city streets. The dash
|> doesn't align properly, and little pieces have fallen off here and there
|> either by themselves or by doing something as simple as adjusting the 
|> rear view mirror.  I've also had the exhaust system taken apart to find
|> a rattling noise there too.  I'll not think of Honda first this time.
|> I guess hoping for two good Hondas in a row is too much to expect.
|> 
|> 

Definitely not alone.  My '92 Civic EX, which I've had for four months now
has the following problems:

1) There's a rattle behind the instrument panel.  The whole dash needs to
   be taken apart to find it.  The rattle is really annoying.
2) The air-conditioner is wimpy.  The one in my '88 Civic could get it
   cold enough inside that I could see my breath!  Not so in the '92.
3) The car came with a wheel balance problem; the steering wheel "shimmies"
   at 120km/h (70mph?).  Dealer says "I had it up to 140km/h and 
   couldn't feel a thing.  Go away."  I'll look at it when I buy some
   winter tires.
4) The clutch pedal sticks when cold.  It sticks right at the friction point,
   so to switch gears I have to put my foot _behind_ the clutch pedal and
   pull it out with my toes.
5) The front passenger door is 1/8 of an inch out of alignment.  One of
   these days I should get the dealer to rehang it, since it doesn't close
   very well and rattles when going over bumps.  I had the same problem
   with my previous civic.
6) The 1.6l 125HP engine is NOISY.  Definitely the noisiest car I've ever
   owned.  Road noise is very apparent.  Argh!
7) The storage compartment marked "pocket" under the ashtray doesn't want
   to open.  If I pull really hard, it will open, but then I have the same
   trouble getting it closed.
8) The speaker wiring to the rear speakers doesn't work.  I had to install
   another set of wires because it was nearly impossible to determine 
   where the break in the wire is.  Since I took delivery of the car with
   the awful factory installed radio and only the two front speakers,
   the dealer figures the wires to the rear speakers were damaged by me
   when I installed a CD player.  Therefore, no warranty.  Sheesh.
9) The 5-speed shifter has gotten really loose.  I'm worried that it will
   start popping out of gear whenever I go over a big bump.
10) 'nuff said.

|> Mike T.
|> 
|> 

-- 
dwjz@bnr.ca  Voice: +1 613 763-8217  Disclaimer: my opinions only  
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jlysagh@hubcap.clemson.edu (james joseph lysaght)
Subject: BMW Highway Patrol Car
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:13:15 GMT

Fpr those of you interested...

In conjunction with BMW building a new production plant in Greenville
South Carolina, BMW has provided the South Carolina Highway Patrol with
a special car for them to use.  The HP will lease the car for $1(US) for
6 months to determine if it is suitable for use in patrolling the
highways and then determine if they wish to purchase some.  The car is
the BMW M5.  It has a 5.7 Liter hand built engine and would market for
$65,000(US).  It registers to 180 mph but is expected to go more.  THe
officer driving says he doubts it will be long before he is required to
determine just how much more. The officer also said that driving it is
hardly any different than the Mustang he was patrolling in except that
it accelerates a lot smoother and faster.  It has all the fancy
trimmings; leather interior, CD Player, power everything (windows,
seats, locks, etc.).  It is a pretty neat looking car but a pretty
unusual looking highway patrol car.

Jim
From: ben@ut-emx.uucp (Benjamin J. Sloan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Paint Experts: does good paint easily chip?
Date: 17 Aug 92 15:33:57 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin; Austin, Texas

A friend recently spent far too much (>$1000) on getting a spiffy
white paintjob for her BMW 633.  The mechanic, who I consider on the
take, claimed it was fabulous "mercedes white" paint that made the
job so pricey.  Now, about six months later, there are big chips
in the paint wherever it has been dinged.  The tailing edge of the
door, for example, has .5 cm chips all along it, and the leading
edge of the hood has big chips missing from road debris abrasion.

It seems to me that these are unusually large chips to flake off.
Does this sound like a good paint job or a good screw job?

Thanks,

Ben Sloan
ben@emx.utexas.edu
From: jimj@cleanplate.EBay.Sun.COM (James D. Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Best way to get rid of surface scratches on new car?
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:43:00 GMT
Reply-To: jimj@cleanplate.EBay.Sun.COM (James D. Jones)
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: cleanplate.ebay.sun.com

My new Integra has already picked up its share of scratches.  
Fortunately, none of them are deep.  I'm dithering over the best way
to cope with them:

1.  Just buff 'em out with rubbing compound (any particular types that
    work best?)

2.  Touch-up paint (necessary for surface scratches? what's the best
    way to apply it?)

I'll appreciate any feedback on the best way to proceed.  Recommendations
for specific techniques or products are welcome.

Jim Jones