HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: radinsky@spot.Colorado.EDU (Wayne Radinsky)
Subject: Re: Oh so worried.
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 01:27:28 GMT

lfoul@terapin.com (Jake McClean) writes:
> I'm beginning to really question the validity of it all.

Sounds like a good move.

> I despise religion.  To me, religion is just a unbelievably huge tool used
> to manipulate the masses.

I would say I despise =organized= religion.  There's nothing wrong with
searching yourself for answers.  The answers must come from within
yourself;  books and religious leaders can help you find answers within
yourself, but they cannot substitute for them.

> I believe the Bible means and (this goes to all you xtians and born
> again xtians) PROVES nothing.  Absolutely nothing.  If the bible gives
> proof in Christ, then the Satanic bible proves, well, anything it
> wants.  (I have yet to read it..)

Proof comes in an experience.  For the Christian Bible and for the Satanic
Bible.  Test them both.  See what works.  If the model of life they present
doesn't work, discard.

> I don't wear much in the way of, uh, jewelry and the like, with the
> exception of an earring and a neckless.  Attatched to the chain around
> my neck is a pentagram (with one point up, NOT in the Satanic position)
> which I get constant complements on.

I have a Wiccan (Wicca == "white witch") friend who wears a pentagram,
also with the point up.  Whether the point is up or down is supposed to
have significance.

> Is it "dangerous"?  Can the "satanic" affect someone who doesn't
> believe in it?

If Satanism is for real, absolutely yes!!!

You don't have to believe in quantum physics to get killed by a nuclear
bomb.  The same must hold true for Satanism, or it's nonsense.

> The question I get asked most often is, "What does it mean?", does it
> HAVE to mean anything?

What is more important, a symbol, or the meaning behind the symbol?

Why do you wear it if it has no meaning to you?

> Can demonic "possesion" affect anyone, despite their beliefs in
> any or no religion?

Oh ye of little faith! If deomic possession is for real, again,
absolutely YES.

(Spiritual dabbling might make you more vulnerable, though.)

Wayne (the Anxious Puppy).
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Lupo the Butcher)
Subject: Re: Oh so worried.
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 03:30:53 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <BzDvDu.DBC.1@cs.cmu.edu> drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake) writes:
>>A pentagram was merely a Pythagorean symbol as far as I know.
>
>Bingo!  Give the man a cee-gar!  What meaning does a pentagram have?  What
>meaning do you want it to have?
>
>Its relationship to phi, the golden mean, and the Fibonacci series can
>be interesting grounds for speculation, however...
>
Er, this is interesting, but I was more interested in the origins of the 
inverse vs the upright pentagramme...

-Lupo
From: donnell@tuna.micro.umn.edu (BogusMan)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Satan Who?
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:31:20 GMT
Organization: none

In article <1992Dec9.164606.1@woods.ulowell.edu> moranc@woods.ulowell.edu writes:
>In article <1992Nov27.234513.3320@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>, locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Lupo the Butcher) writes:
>> In article <001650r.7.722896739@ace.acadiau.ca> 001650r@ace.acadiau.ca (LISE ANNE ROBICHAUD) writes:
>>>
>>><shit deleted to save space>
>
>
>
>HOW'S ABOUT GETTING AN ORIGINAL NICK-NAME!!!!  I JUST LOVE LISTENING TO YOU
>OH-SO-SECURE PEOPLE HIDE BEHIND PRETENTIOUS NICKNAMES AND GROUP AFFILIATION.  I
>AM A SATANIST, I AM A PAGAN, I AM A CHRISTIAN!?!?!?  YOU ARE ALL THE SAME TO
>ME.   LOST LITTLE PEOPLE.  (HAVE I PISSED YOU OFF ENOUGH?) 
>
>MAYBE ITS REALLY MY NAME, 
>   -CINDY

Lost? I think not. BTW, do you think you could show us the minimum courtesy
of shutting off your cpas lock.
Group affiliation? I have no group, nor do I wish one. You are mistaking
groups with labels. I label myself what I want, no one else has the right
to do so. As for your wish to "piss us off enough", may I say that
No, I am ot pissed. <sorry to dissappoint you>. Just depressed at the 
stupidity of your post. 
Pax
					--Judex--
PS: I am not hiding behind a cute name. My real name is Joel Addison 
Schenkenberg. Judex is simply easier to type.
Go whine somewhere else.
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: jagrizza@uncc.edu (James A Grizzard)
Subject: Re: Oh so worried.
Reply-To: jagrizza@uncc.edu
Organization: University of NC at Charlotte
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 11:05:13 GMT

>The pentagram is an old symbol, meaning various things. Some say the upright
>pentagram is a stylized symbol of an upright (wo)Man. There is a RUSH album
>cover that shows this quite well. Supposedly the inverse pentagram is the man
>with his head downward, not exalted. This is supposed to show how those who
>dabble in the "Black Arts" have their heads on "earthly matters" rather than 
>the spiritual longings of "white magick". Milage may vary; I think it is a
>crock of shit myself. 

ahem.  take a closer look at that RUSH album (the album is 2112, btw).  The red star
is -not- a pentagram, it's simply a star inside a circle... In a pentagram, the lines
of the star cross, on that album, they don't.

thank you very much.

Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake)
Subject: Re: Hell
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 06:18:27 GMT

>Hello All!  I'm not a Satanist, but was wondering what the Satanic view
>of hell is? Anton LaVey mentions "hell" in his books, and I was
>wondering if Satanists view hell in the same way as Christians do, or is
>it just symbolic? If it is symbolic, what does the symbolism mean?

A Satanist does not view hell in the Christian way.  If they did, they
would be fools or madmen, since the Christians believe that Satan and
his followers end up in the "lake of fire" forever and ever.  No sane
person would want to go there; hence, if you buy into their beliefs,
then logically you would be a Christian.

Hell is symbolic, but I wouldn't phrase it as "just" symbolic, because
that implies that it is somehow unimportant or trivial.  LaVey took
a certain pleasure in being as impious and irreverent as possible, 
and I doubt there was a lot of meaning behind his choice of the word
hell, except that it might shock the sensibilities of a lot of Xians.

I consider myself a type of Satanist, but do not believe in hell, in
a Xian view of heaven or God, in the mythology of the Bible, or in
any form or morality other than my own.  LaVeyan Satanism was, in many
ways, a type of "religious atheism."

>I was wondering if someone could elaborate to me on LaVey's theory on
>Trapezoids and Angles.  How did the Enochian "Angels" which John Dee
>discovered become "angles"?  Thanx in advance for your reply.  --Adam--

LaVey's Church of Satan had a sort of board of directors which was known
as the Order of the Trapezoid.  His Law of the Trapezoid is simply this:

"All obtuse angles are magically harmful to those unaware of this
property.  The same angles are benficial, stimulating, and energizing
to those who are magically sensitive to them."

Similar angles are used in "Die Elektrischen Vorspiele," contained in
_The Satanic Rituals_.  An interesting application of these angles is
made in the older film, "The Cabinet of Dr Caligari."

The angels of Dee made their way to be angles precisely because of LaVey's
belief in the magical potency of angular relationships.  It was, I think,
an attempt at a subtle pun.  He attested to the power of the angles and,
indirectly, to the Enochian "angels."  (Dee was a type of Christian, or
at least writing in a Christian culture, so we can forgive him for referring
to them as "angels.")


-- 
Love and Laughter,             | NOTE: Private mail must go explicitly
Xeper and Remanifest,          | to drake@seismo.soar.cs.cmu.edu
                       DRAKE   | or it'll bounce back to you...
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Scripture, wisdom thereof
Date: 16 Dec 92 01:15:58 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

I've seen the claim tossed around from time to time that _The Bible_ does
actually contain some wisdom (though not enought to base a lifestyle/philosophy
around it). I've actually said it myself. But I got to thinking the other day,
"What sort of wisdom does it contain? What is the 'wisest' biblical passage?"

Is it the commandment to love thy neighbor? Or thine enemy?

Is it the observations of human nature in Proverbs?

Is it the sex, I mean knowledge?

Is it the advice to pay taxes?

Nah...

It must be the part about, "Before removing the mote from thy neighbor's eye,
first remove the beam from thine own."

Best advice in _The Bible_, IMO.

But if Jesus had come up with the Peter Principle, I might be Xian today ;-)

--Semhaza
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: hello
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:31:46 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1992Dec14.022421.9372@iscsvax.uni.edu>, johnson2202@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
> Greetings,
> 
>         For those of you who want info.  I suggest reading the Nerconomicon,
> The Satanic Bible, the bible(any version), and The Necronomicon Spellbook. 

Hmmmm....<think, think, think>...yes. I'll recommend _The Satanic Bible_. And
_The Bible_ (with a small "beware" sign"). Books to make you think about the
way we live, I would hope. The only thing I would say is to try to read them
both while trying to understand *everything*; don't just look for the parts you
agree with.

The _Necronomicon_ books...well, I've let my opinions be known regarding them
plenty of times. Good for a laugh, I would say, and not much else. I'd say
the same thing about _The Bible_, but millions of people base their lives on
that book.

> I
> found most of them to be rather interesting...but low on the kind of thing
> that
> would 'make' you take up a religous choice, or anything such as that... 
> Truthfully i found the bible the worst read...very ...preachy.  And that kind
> of thing rubs me wrong.  The others, though, seemed more to just present
> things and let you decide for yourself.  Much more to my tastes.

I think nothing can "make" you take up a religious choice, except your own
personality. If you've got the right personality, then reading _The Bible_, the
_Necronomicon_, _The Book Of the Law_, or _Dragonflight_ can "make" you into
a gibbering religious maniac.
 
>         Personally i have found that the more people you talk to the more
> confused the sisue can become...  I suggest finding a friend or two and
> discuss
> things with them, and vice versa

Yes. Find a good, *levelheaded* friend to talk with. Preferably one who hasn't
yet made a decision themselves, so that you can explore new ideas together
without one or the othr of you feeling they have to push an agenda.

> ....gotta go later, news is going down

Me too...:( final papers due in five hours...

Yours in Azazel,
--Semhaza
From: drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Oh so worried.
Date: 21 Dec 92 05:34:01 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

>> Maybe some of you would like to come up with a definition of what
>> exactly Satanism *is*...
>
>Satanism [in this context only] -- n. the ability to summon and
>influence demonic spirits, and possibly induce the spiritual posession
>(see below) of someone else.

What is a "demonic" spirit and how is it differentiated from a regular
spirit?  Is this newgroup operating in the Christian paradigm, or have we
gotten beyond that?  (Sorry; I'm new here.)

>There are more "humanistic" definitions that have nothing to do with
>this; see the FAQ file for more general definitions.

Where would I get the FAQ file?  Probably a stupid question, but as I
said, I'm new here.

>>>>My point, however, is: IF Voodoo hexes are for real it's just as
>>>possible for Sagan to get hexed as it is for him to die from AIDS.
>> 
>> Interesting theory.  What do you mean by "for real?"
>
>I mean real.  Gravity is real, anti-gravity is not (but the concept is
>real).

Interesting example of recursion (or is that an endless loop?)

So the things that you have experienced are real, the things you have
not aren't?  Rather myopic, it seems.  Magic is a branch of psychology,
not physics.  "There are more things in heaven and earth..."

To continue your example, yes, I think it's possible for Sagan to "get
hexed," as you phrase it.  Probable?  No.

>Techniques such as ouija boards and automatic writing invite "someone
>else" to control your body.  These might lead to possession, if you're
>unable to get this entity back out.

OK; we'll go with  that as a "working definition."



-- 
Love and Laughter,             | NOTE: Private mail must go explicitly
Xeper and Remanifest,          | to drake@seismo.soar.cs.cmu.edu
                       DRAKE   | or it'll bounce back to you...
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Oh so worried.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 03:24:06 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <BzDux9.Cw8.1@cs.cmu.edu>, drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake) writes:
> Maybe some of you would like to come up with a definition of what
> exactly Satanism *is*...

I suppose you want that in 30 words or less?

What's the grading scale?

Sorry; too many finals lately...

But it is rather a hairy question...

I'd give this guy a FAQ, but I don't have a copy available right
now (been cleaning out the account). Anybody else want to pass
them a copy?

I will try to come up with one more update before I leave....

Anybody have definitions *not* in the FAQ?

Enough rambling for now...

--Semhaza (The Antichrist)
From: Adam@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Adam)
Sender: tghost@urchin.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Hell
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:59:32 -0500

Hello All!  I'm not a Satanist, but was wondering what the Satanic view
of hell is? Anton LaVey mentions "hell" in his books, and I was
wondering if Satanists view hell in the same way as Christians do, or is
it just symbolic? If it is symbolic, what does the symbolism mean? Also,
I was wondering if someone could elaborate to me on LaVey's theory on
Trapezoids and Angles.  How did the Enochian "Angels" which John Dee
discovered become "angles"?  Thanx in advance for your reply.  --Adam--



Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: huebnerd@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Daniel Huebner)
Subject: Magan_script
Originator: huebnerd@hphalle6g.informatik.tu-muenchen.de
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 08:35:32 GMT


Who can tell me where to get a copy of the Magan-script ?
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake)
Subject: Re: Oh so worried.
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 03:08:16 GMT

>A pentagram was merely a Pythagorean symbol as far as I know.

Bingo!  Give the man a cee-gar!  What meaning does a pentagram have?  What
meaning do you want it to have?

Its relationship to phi, the golden mean, and the Fibonacci series can
be interesting grounds for speculation, however...
From: WCE2@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
Subject: Re: Bush is a Satanist, and here's proof!
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:11:51 GMT
 <1992Dec10.100355.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> <Bz315J.E36@cs.psu.edu>
Organization: Penn State University

Well, there's a deeper reason than that:  the gesture is a magical one from way
back, and its athletic use stems from the belief (pretty firm among baseball
teams of my youth) that you could hoodoo or jinx the other side by making it in
 their direction.  This was supposed to be especially effective in making
the opposite pitcher lose control and walk batters.
   Among Italian-Americans it's still used when meeting someone you don't like
(usually covertly, behind one's back).  The conscious rationale is that you are
 warding off the evil eye that the other person is casting; probably not so far
below the surface the the desire to cast the evil eye (and hence weaken) on
that person.  A fairly common amulet among Ital-Ams is a hand formed in this
gesture; another is a curvey horn (often of gold or coral) said to have the
same powers.  And I note that another gesture used by fans of another college
football team (I forget which--Oklahoma?) is to make a "horn" with one finger,
and make a gesture of "hooking" or goring the other side.
   Football is full of magick, as is baseball.  But as always, it's "good
magick" so long as you're rooting for the same team.  It seems to be satanists'
peculiar doom (or privilege) to root against every team.
.
Bill Ellis (wce2 @ psuvm.psu.edu)                 Editor, FOAFtale News
Penn State, Hazleton Campus                       Voice: 717-450-3026
Hazleton, PA 18201-1291                           Fax: 717-450-3182
     "He who affirms the devil, creates the Devil." --Eliphas Levi
Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: radinsky@spot.Colorado.EDU (Wayne Radinsky)
Subject: Re: Oh so worried.
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 06:40:05 GMT

drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake) writes:
>>>>> Is it "dangerous"?  Can the "satanic" affect someone who doesn't
>>>>> believe in it?
>>>>
>>>> If Satanism is for real, absolutely yes!!!
>>>>
>>>> You don't have to believe in quantum physics to get killed by a nuclear
>>>> bomb.  The same must hold true for Satanism, or it's nonsense.
> 
> Maybe some of you would like to come up with a definition of what
> exactly Satanism *is*...

Satanism [in this context only] -- n. the ability to summon and
influence demonic spirits, and possibly induce the spiritual posession
(see below) of someone else.

There are more "humanistic" definitions that have nothing to do with
this; see the FAQ file for more general definitions.

>>My point, however, is: IF Voodoo hexes are for real it's just as
>>possible for Sagan to get hexed as it is for him to die from AIDS.
> 
> Interesting theory.  What do you mean by "for real?"

I mean real.  Gravity is real, anti-gravity is not (but the concept is
real).

>>>> Oh ye of little faith! If deomic possession is for real, again,
>>>> absolutely YES.
> 
> What meaning, again, do you assign to "for real?"

I mean real.  Gravity is real, anti-gravity is not (but the concept is
real).  (You asked twice).

>>>> I didn't say what my beliefs were!  (I was saying, =if= posession exists,
>> then...)  And if you want to know, I believe possession is a possibility,
>> but I'm not convinced of its reality.
> 
> How do you define possession so as to believe in its possibility?

Think of the body as being a car, and the soul which animates the body
as the driver.  Spiritual possession, then, would be analogous to
someone trying (or succeeding) to steal your car.  In other words,
someone other than you is controlling your body.

Techniques such as ouija boards and automatic writing invite "someone
else" to control your body.  These might lead to possession, if you're
unable to get this entity back out.  It's like, asking someone to drive
your car for a while, but not being able to get them out of the
driver's seat when you want it back.  This is the only means of possession
I've read about.  If anybody knows of others, please post.

If we believe in life after death, the possesser could be a deceased
person.  The spiritual realm could also be inhabited by entities that
never incarnate, such as angels or demons, who could try to possess
people.

I say it's a "possibility" because, having never been possessed myself,
I can't say from personal experience that any of this is true, or is
not true.  If anyone has personal experiences, please post.

Wayne, The Anxious Puppy

Newsgroups: alt.satanism
From: radinsky@spot.Colorado.EDU (Wayne Radinsky)
Subject: Re: Oh so worried.
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 06:13:22 GMT

<WCE2@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> Wayne Radinsky writes something to the effect that to become possessed, one
> must *do* something to become possessed, such as play with a Ouija board.

(Yes, but

> (BTW, Parker Bros. is advertising the Ouija again on TV as an ideal Xmas
> present and offering special prices for it at dept. store sales.  They must
> have gotten over their decade-long insecurity about it: Hail Santa!)
> 
> The only problem with this is that if you read any of the tomes on
> exorcism, you find that the means of getting possessed are polymath and
> ubiquitous.  (Hail Polymath and Ubiquitous, y'all!).  Read your
> horoscope in the paper, get a demon; open a fortune cookie, get a
> demon; buy Procter & Gamble products, get a demon, and so on.

I doubt such paranoia has much to do with real (assuming it exists) demon
posession, and I feel sorry for a person who lives in such a paralyzing,
superstitious fear.

> Most experts say that apparently normal Xns may have as many as 200
> demons indwelling them and silently twisting them to the wrong.

Could you quote one of these experts, please?

> The difficulty is (and I've had this from an Xn student) that once
> you're "clear" of demons, avoiding the variety of ways they can reenter
> makes it virtually impossible to live in a secular world, so the
> tendency is to become part of a survivalist-oriented Xn cult that
> defines the rest of the world as demon-polluted and incredibly
> dangerous to one's soul.  The irony is that what you get into at this
> point is the real-life analog to the awful satanic cult that makes you
> kill kids and have sex orgies: and from what I've read about real cults
> like Jim Jones's, they can be pretty messy.

I don't see the cause & effect relationship here.  A person gets posessed
by a demon, gets freed from it, then, by trying to avoid getting
reposessed, starts to kill kids and have sex orgies... ???

Wayne, the anxious puppy

Newsgroups: alt.satanism