HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Why not cure homosexuality?
Date: 30 Dec 1992 17:57:20 GMT
Organization: Colorado Springs IT Center
NNTP-Posting-Host: fajita19.cs.itc.hp.com

scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker) writes:

(before anyone flames me for advocating 'curing' homosexuality, let me 
spell out that I'm not for it...)

> Sorry, but I'm not aware of any documented and confirmed case of anybody ever 
> changing their sexual orientation (and believe me I've looked).  Some 
> people have been known to forceably change their sexual behaviour and 
> habits.  Some people who are in the Kinsey 2-4 range may find a 
> different gendered SO at different times in their lives.

What this seems to be saying is that it can *never* be demonstrated that 
a person changes their orientation, since if they do, they can just be 
said to have been 'in a middle range' and not really homosexual anyways. 
If you can't measure someone's Kinsey rating, how can you determine 
if he changed?  

Walter
From: scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Private antidiscrimination policies in CO (was Re:
Date: 1 Jan 93 19:03:12 GMT
Organization: BASIS International, Ltd., Albuquerque NM USA

In article <1i09acINNiai@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>> For if there were none, then you can gaddamned
>> well take your sorry fucking ass right out of here and right
>> quick before the troops turn mean.  I believe it's well
>> past the time when they should have done so.  
>
>Even better...I just HATE to see negative stereotypes so boldly 
>fulfilled.  If I'm insulting anyone, it is out of ignorance.  
>But for people here, arrogance, bad manners, and filthy language 
>almost seem a badge of honor.  And *you* have the GALL to accuse 
>me?  

If you can't understand how you managed to bring out such ugliness
in other people then that's just one more thing for you to think 
about.  Perhaps the next time a gay rights law is on the ballot you
can vote against it to teach everybody a lesson in manners.

-- 
Scott Amspoker                       |    
Basis International, Albuquerque, NM |  Too bad ignorance isn't really
                                     |  bliss.  Then it could be outlawed.
scott@bbx.basis.com                  |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Details on NYC co-op ruling?
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 17:14:40 EST
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Anyone remember details of a CourtCase in 1991 that said that same-sex
couples DO have the right to inherit co-ops? I could swear there was some
similar decision like this last  year. If so, how is the below different?

	In a decision that lawyers and city officials say could
	affect thousands of cooperatives in New York City, the
	city Human Rights Commission has rules that homosexuals
	have the right to inherit co-op apartments from their
	partners.

	The decision essentially extends to gay people the same
	rights of inheritance that apply to heterosexual
	spouses.  In all co-op agreements that allow
	heterosexual spouses to inherit apartments without
	being subject to the approval of the co-op board, the
	agreement must specifically spell out that gay couples
	have the same right.

	If not, the commission ruled, the co-op would be
	violating the city human rights law and could be sued
	for discrimination.  Thousands of co-ops could be
	affected, officials said.

	The Human Rights Commission interprets and enforces the
	city's anti-discrimination laws.  Bud G. Holman, the
	president of the co-operative involved in the case that
	prompted the commission's ruling, said the co-op, at 60
	Sutton Place, would appeal in court.  The ruling caps a
	two-year legal fight between the co-op board and a 54-
	year-old gay man, Harry Kirkpatrick, who was bequeathed
	an apartment that belonged to his companion, Martin
	Weiner, but was rejected by the co-op board.  Mr.
	Weiner died of AIDS in 1989.
   
---
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C., April 25 1993''
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
The First Amendment: not just a good idea, it's the law.-murphy@omega.npri.com
From: nef@calmasd.Prime.COM (Nancy Fox)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: long-term relationships...success stories, please...
Keywords: relationships long-term lengthy
Date: 21 Dec 92 18:48:43 GMT
Organization: Computervision, San Diego, CA

In article <wood.724690404@jfred> wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood) writes:
>gerkman@binky.csc.wsu.edu (Joseph M. Gerkman) writes:
>
>>I kinda want to hear some  
>>success stories of long-lasting relationships...hopefully ones that are  
>>still going strong...

I responded privately to Joseph, but for the public record, Judy and I
celebrated 18 years in October.  If the marriage thing works out in
Hawaii, we are considering a double wedding with our good friends,
Peter and Eli, who live there.
>
>David and I celebrate our fifth anniversary on this coming Monday,
12/21/92.

Congratulations, Jim.  I was stuck but how similar our responses were.
>
>Two things: money and sex.
>
These are indeed two of the big ones, and should be talked about
openly and honestly.


>The same thing concerns sex.  A lot of relationships die when the torrid
>lights of passion flicker, and the crucial part is to work on maintaining
>a healthy and varied sex life, to agree on what the bounds of the relationship
>are, and to maintain honesty with respect to the issues.

Exactly.  Everything you said.

Nancy




Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: gklein@uoft02.utoledo.edu (Gary Klein, bear-at-heart)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: EE statements (was: Re: Attention Skiers Boycotting Colorado)
Date: 31 Dec 92 23:02:49 EST
Distribution: na
Organization: Univ of Toledo

In article <1hvdiqINNpm2@meaddata.meaddata.com>, markw@meaddata.com (Mark 
Wasson) writes:
> There are also different kinds of responsibilities.  
> ...   If I were to overextend myself
> by buying  such a house or car, I certainly would not expect my
> employer to come to my rescue.  
...
> I don't see why an employer should go out of its way to reward some
> lifestyle choices and not others.  An employer should reward an
> employee an amount commensurate with the value that employee brings to
> the company - not how that employee chooses to live his or her life.

     Maybe I ought to lobby my boss for a larger salary so that I may sustain
my position as the "resident leathered librarian" on my campus!

     It's a job, and someone has to fill those shoes.

     Do you realize how much its costs to keep a wardrobe up-to-date!  Don't
believe me if you don't want to, but just 2 weeks ago, people were talking
about "mandatory dress codes" on LIBREF-L@KENTVM.BITNET (Reference Librarians'
Discussion Group).  So if your employer is going to institute a dress code,
they ought to give you a clothing allowance, so that you can "look your very
best".

     And those duds from H.I.M. or INTERNATIONAL MALE are not offered at a
discount, even if you show your Queer Card.

     Who said that "membership has its privileges"?

     Was that the YUPPIE AMERICAN ACCESS CARD?
-- 
"Not your average Leathered Librarian"
      * * * *          Gary Klein,   Business Librarian,   Univ of Toledo
       *   *                     P.O.Box 12650 / Toledo OH 43606
        * *            WORK:   419-537-2629            HOME: 419-243-2740
         *             BITNET: fac2813@uoft01           FAX: 419-537-2726
  B4 t+ w- g s+ k              INTERNET: fac2813@uoft01.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis)
Subject: Re: "cures" for homosexuality
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:19:16 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.174915.14562@midway.uchicago.edu> elle@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1992Dec22.170637.15042@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> 
> mudge@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (MUDGE BRIAN WAYNE) writes:
>>  From THE GAY BOOK OF LISTS, 11 Alleged Cures for Homosexuality, 
>>5.) The love of a good woman.
>
>I dunno.  You really think this would cure me?

Like so many worth-while projects, the benefit is likely in the effort.
If nothing else, it'll provide me an opportunity to kidnap Cliff while
you're busy.

Brian
-- 

Brian A. Jarvis,          Rm. 4026, Sidney Smith Hall, Dept. of Psychology,
jarvis@psych.toronto.edu  University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
System Administrator      M5S 1A1  (416) 978-3948
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: urso@spdcc.com (Stephen Chappell)
Subject: Re: long-term relationships...success stories, please...
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 03:10:57 GMT

In article <C018zM.E21@hpuerca.atl.hp.com> mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser) writes:
>In <1992Dec27.155552.20863@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>>	I think for us these two are reversed... we actually have
>>a script for this...
>
>>	Person 1: What do you want for dinner?
>>	Person 2: I dunno, what do yOU want for dinner?
>>	Person 1: (Realizing that this is an infinite loop)
>>			White Castle Burgers it is!
>
>>	That usually prompts Person 2 to think of SOMETHING in
>>short order... :-)
>
>In the South, just substitute "Krystal" or "Po' Folks" for "White
>Castle" and you get precisely the same response (although IMHO a
>Krystal and White Castle _are_ the same burger :-).
>

Actually, when I first told BBC about this tactic, it *was* a Krystal,
but I had to insert "White Castle" for the Southerly-disabled.
 
But Po' Folks!  Po' Folks is wonderful... one of the things I miss most
about the South is wonderfully unhealthy starchy Southern food.

> Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
> Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
> NBCS: B5 f t w g+ k s              I barely speak for myself, so
> #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
>=======================================================================

Is it my imagination, but does it seem like all these bears are coming
out of the soc.motss woodwork from Atlanta since I moved.  For years, I
was the only Atlanta bear on the net I knew of, and now there are tonnes!
 
<sigh>  While we're at it, send me a chili dog from the Varsity.  :-)
 
[] Urso

-- 
[] Stephen Chappell (a.k.a. "Urso")
[] urso@ursa-major.spdcc.com
[] 15 Walker Street, Powder House Square   
[] Somerville, MA 02144-1622, USA
From: owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.*
Date: 21 Dec 92 19:53:49 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.144124.8239@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> I've been thinking about dumping motss at the same time,
> too.  "Queer" doesn't do it for me, however.  All things
> taken together (and I think the main point is that the
> completely uninitiated should be helped to find us), I'm in
> favor of soc.lesbigay.*.

It seems to be an idea who'se time has come.

Count me as one vote aye.

LUX ./. owen

--
D. Owen Rowley {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen

  " It will be a cold March 17th that I celebrate the imposition of
	Romes rule, on Pagan Ireland. Erin go ppphhhhhttttttt! "
From: smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Private antidiscrimination policies in CO (was Re: Attention...)
Date: 1 Jan 1993 01:13:45 GMT
Organization: Colorado Springs IT Center
NNTP-Posting-Host: fajita19.cs.itc.hp.com

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> >Well, I've never personally seen it in action, but I'll take 
> >your word for it.  
> 
> What are you saying?  That you've never seen homophobia?

I've never seen anything in action that I would call a 'phobia' 
agaisnt homosexuals.  If you mean have I never seen people who 
dislike homosexuality, yes, I have.  I've also seen homosexuals
who are even more expressly anti-christian than the people I know 
who don't like homosexuality.  From what I've seen in the world, 
and in this forum, there are more homosexuals that are christian-phobic 
than there are straights who are homo-phobic (or who dislike homosexuality, 
or however you want to put it.).    

> Do you believe *only* what you personally have seen?

No, but I also don't believe everything I hear.  I've got extensive 
experience with Jehovah's Witnesses, since there are some in my 
wife's family.  (She was once one) They are convinced that everyone 
is against them, that people are out to get them, that the devil will 
take over their minds if they read certain books, that the whole 
world is evil, etc.  They're *convinced*, sincerely, of these things. 
That doesnt make them objective about it.  A lot of the talk by 
people in this group about how so many people hate them, want to 
take away their rights, would kill them if they could get away
with it, etc; rings familiar when I think back to what the JWS say. 
Since I've never seen anything *closely* resembling that level 
of hatred, I doubt it is as extensive as some here seem to think. 
There are obvious examples where it *is* true; the incident with the 
sailor in Chicago being a most disgusting example.   But that doesn;t 
mean that companies in general (there are a few) want to fire people 
for being gay; that people want to evict people for being gay, or that 
people generally hate gays.  I may be very naive and all wet about 
this.  Thus, I ask for examples that I may not have seen myself. 
what would be really cool would be if I could go to a gay bar, or 
to a straight bar with someone who was gay, or with a group, and 
see real life in action; see how people treat me if they think I'm 
gay.  maybe then I'd get a better understanding.  Anyways, no, I don't 
only believe what I see, but I don't believe everything I hear, either. 

Walter

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@aix02.ecs.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Gay/Lesbian band at Inaugural: Musings and Details
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 05:50:14 GMT

I think I read somewhere that the glb marching band is going to be somehere
at the head of the procession, is that true?


-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C. in 93!''
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
 92 of the 400 richest Americans *inherited* their wealth. Source: _Details_.
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Costner plans Colorado Filming
Date: 2 Jan 93 02:58:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1993Jan2.025810.11140
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1i2guvINN426@plts.uucp> tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli) writes:
[about places to ski]
>Oregon could also certainly use the support after so many there went
>out on a limb to defeat Measure 9.

And if you do come to Oregon to ski, consider staying at Timberline
lodge. It's a beautiful place on Mt. Hood, an old WPA project, it's
right there at the best skiing on Mt. Hood, *and* Timberline took out
a half page front section ad against Measure 9 back in October. I
think it is a pretty expensive place, though.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                                    D is for lots of things
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus)
Subject: Willies
Organization: Open Software Foundation Research Institute, Grenoble
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 12:28:36 GMT

kgdykes@thinkage.on.ca (Ken Dykes) writes:
>>I knew there was something about heterosexuality that gave me the
>>willies! Dworkin's put her finger right on it! Hitler! How fresh!
>willies are penises (penii?) arent they?

Indeed, willies are penises (or perhaps penes).  My inimitable friend
 ,  ,
Roisin gave me a box for Christmas which proudly proclaimed that it
contained "Six Cream-Filled Chocolate Willies", and indeed within
there were to be found six items not unlike male genitals, though
rather smaller than any I have encountered in real life.  I was a
little disappointed at the viscosity of the cream filling though; I
had rather hoped that it would spurt out when I bit into the head.

,
Eamonn
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Subject: Re: Outed to your parents. - Advice.
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 13:44:06 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.003424.7628@midway.uchicago.edu> pmm7@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>re pflag:
>remember, there are plenty of people in pflag who think
>bisexuality is "just a phase" 

But it is!  Happens to last until death, but most people get over it
after that.  Except maybe Elf.


Ry
ry@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: "cures" for homosexuality
Organization: People's Front of Judea
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:34:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.170637.15042@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> mudge@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (MUDGE BRIAN WAYNE) writes:
>  From THE GAY BOOK OF LISTS, 11 Alleged Cures for Homosexuality, 
>
>7.) Physical Therapy, according to one theory, prostate massage kills 
>    "homosexual cells" and replaces them with "healthy heterosexual cells".

Does this work if you massage the prostate from behind?
-- 
Andrew Solovay    
                "I know that, in America and under capitalism,
                 I am the freest woman in history."
                                --- Camille Paglia
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: The Foreskin-Impaired (was Re: Drooling over...)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 15:38:50 GMT

joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) writes:

>I made a mistake in the previous post...

I *thought* this was pretty odd. (Understandable mistake, though; It's
always confusing when you're talking cut vs. uncut. I think it's because
when you use one pair of terms (circumcised/uncircumcised) the terms
make cut to be the default, while when talking foreskin/noforeskin, the
terms make uncut the default.

>>Having a forskin increases sensitivity. This is without question. I
>>don't think this is a good thing, however. I find that quite a few men
>>w/o foreskins can't really take aggressive friction on the head of

With foreskins, I think you mean.

>>their penis, and another small group of uncircumcised men don't want
>>to skin the foreskin back. I like to run my finger around just under
>>the rim of the glans when I'm jacking someone off, and about half

Whee!

>>uncircumcised men will just go through the roof and stop me.

I usually do too (not when *you* specifically do it, of course; I mean
when someone in general does this. Sounds like you've had more playtime
with foreskins than the men I've been with), but - Helpful Hint from
Hellaslut - I find that lube helps enormously. For those us sensitive
men, GOBS AND GOBS OF LOOGEY-ENRICHED GOOBER make things much more
comfortable.

--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico

      You would be surprised at what resides in your insides.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: A Better Year Ahead
Organization: People's Front of Judea
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 22:35:47 GMT

In article <RHAYDEN.92Dec24105330@hqsun2.oracle.com> rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden) writes:
>In article <1992Dec19.054427.18239@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>   -  Changing the base name from motss to something more
>      obviously related to lesbian, gay, and bisexual
>      interests.  We've had very full discussions of this issue
>      several times in the not too distant past.  From those
>      discussions, "gay" alone won't fly.  There's close to
>      complete consensus, I think, that we need greater
>      inclusiveness than that.  Strictly for economy, lots of
>      us say LGB or LGBO to refer to the cohort.  But unless
>      you're already familiar with that acronym, it's every bit
>      as opaque as motss.  That's why I currently favor
>      soc.lesbigay.
>
>I agree.  Lesbigay is an obvious word (well, you might have to think
>about it for a couple of seconds) that is inclusive.

And another big plus: Newbies might try to find this group by
searching for groups with "gay" in the name, so it behooves us to
choose a group name with that substring.
-- 
Andrew Solovay    
                "I know that, in America and under capitalism,
                 I am the freest woman in history."
                                --- Camille Paglia
From: pauli@sgi.com (Paul Isaacs)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The Foreskin-Impaired (was Re: Drooling over...)
Date: 23 Dec 1992 18:27:31 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniblab.asd.sgi.com

In article <ALLEMANG.92Dec23145518@liasun5.epfl.ch> allemang@lia.di.epfl.ch (Dean Allemang) writes:
>
>In my experience at safe-sex parties in Amsterdam, Berlin, and other
>places, I stand out as being one of very few circumcised participants.
>We usually have a discussion of this afterwards or during the break,
                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

afterward or during the break?
What is "the break?"

I picture Romper Room.

After the doobee song, all us kids have a big orgy.
Then, we have "the break" for milk and cookies when we all talk about 
our sex parts.
Then we have more sex.
Then we ride the little cardboard cars around the room.
Finally, it's time for the magic mirror:
"I see Peter and Dick and Rod and..."


pauli.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden)
Subject: Re: Top GLB Fiction
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, Ca.
	<1992Dec19.023340.17274@spdcc.com> <18214@autodesk.COM>
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 01:34:11 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <18214@autodesk.COM> randyc@autodesk.com (Randy Clark) writes:

	   ?????  In general probably true, but I think Delaney
	   among the best SF/fantasy writers working today.

	   (I'll attempt to forestall the otherwise inevitable
	   chorus of people saying he's bisexual by pointing
	   out he often describes himself as "gay.")

Per his autobiography, he's capable of sleeping with women, but finds
it a lot of work and not very fun.
--

  - Ronald Hayden

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
   | Documentation Manager, Oracle Toolkit Group                    |
   | Co-chair of Oracle Lambda, Oracle's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual group |
   | Writer, magician, and various other things                     |
    ----------------------------------------------------------------