HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: TECHNION - Israel Institute of Technology.
Date: Friday, 10 Apr 1992 20:18:30 IST
From: Uri Zakai <RPR1ZAK@TECHNION.BITNET>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Death Squads in Occupied Territories
 <1992Apr6.182432.27791@cs.brown.edu> <92099.095152RPR1ZAK@TECHNION.BITNET>
 <1992Apr9.184528.25183@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>

In article <1992Apr9.184528.25183@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>, bjag@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
(Bharathi Jagadeesh) says:
>
>Danny Keren
>>I don't know the current number, but in March the NY Times gave the number
>>of Palestinians killed by Palestinians as 54. It is three time more
>>than the number of people killed by the IDF in riots
>
>Uri Zakai
>>it is a much larger number then the one of palestinians killed by israelis
>>and if we   add the fact that those who are killed by other palestinians
>>are usually weaponless , and are hacked up with axes etc - usually in
>>broad day light , you have to wonder how come nobody protest against it.
>
>Bharathi jagadeesh
>Since Israel is the governmental authority in the West Bank and Gaza, it is
>the Israeli responsibility to prevent the killing of all residents of the
>area, whoever the murderers are. It's a shame that Israel's doing its job
>so badly.

so badly ?
i thought you people think israel is too harsh  ? make up your mind ?
btw - how would you go about stopping those executions  ? would you storm
with guns blazing ? or you would do what israel is doing - use small
teams that work against the hard core criminals that are responsiable.

so let me understand are you for or against the use of speciall forces ?
mind you forces whose job isnt to kill but to make arrests.

>However, the extra-judicial killing of Palestinians, is not in any way
>comparable to the actions of the Israeli military forces. If the killers of
>the Palestinians were caught, I presume that Israel would actively
>prosecute them (I hope so, anyway; Israel's abdication of its
>responsibility to the Palestinianians presumably hasn't gone so far that
>they would overlook murder). The Israeli killers (soldiers) of the
>Palestinians do so with the full support and authority of the Israeli
>government. They are not prosecuted for their actions. This makes the two
>situations wholy different.

what are you talking about ?
have i missed the posting in which you prove the existence or activity
of those units ?
or the israeli government support ?
even the original poster of this article said he has no proof - so what are
you talking about ??

>In the same way, Palestinians cannot be held responsible because some
>Palestinians chose to murder each other. Israelis, on the other hand, are
>responsible for the actions of the government they elect.
>--
>Bharathi Jagadeesh/bjag@nwu.edu

ofcourse those palestinians that murder their helpless brothers do not
represent all palestinians - thats why israel is acting  against them
with pin point precision .

uri zakai
From: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Alex Odeh , again... (was Re: U.S. Aid)
Date: 10 Apr 92 13:16:09 GMT
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ

In article <1992Apr10.043044.21302@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> 22387IA@MSU writes:

# # You have to look at all these things, over several years, in the context of
# # international relations and pressures and interests.  No country has a perfect
# # working justuce system. I am sure there are many criminals in Western Europe
# # U.S. or Arab countries that are not prosecuted, or cannot be prosecuted. I
# # would just mention Nazi war criminals, Abu Abbas (Syria), Abu Nidal, the
# # Dir Yassin gang (Israel).  In the context of the current drive for peace in th
#                    ^^^^^^
 
# 	Unless you insist on parroting the lie originated by the Hagana
# and now repeated by many, you must have meant (Arab) Here.

# --------------------------------------------------------------------------
# I meant that the Dir Yassin gang is in Israel.

	I see what you mean.  If the establishment in Israel would move to
put on trial those Arabs (I doubt any could be found, nor do I believe
they are in Israel) who were responsible for the Deir Yassin massacre,
they would be forced to admit the role of the Hagana and the Jewish
Agency in fostering the lie that the Irgun/Stern Gang caused a
massacre.
--

David Makowsky
makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu
From: pnmideast@igc.org
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:31 PDT
Subject: ADC CHALLENGES WALL ST JOURNAL
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1483500205:000:2882
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!pnmideast    Apr 13 12:31:00 1992


From: <pnmideast>
Subject: ADC CHALLENGES WALL ST JOURNAL

/* Written 10:15 am  Apr 13, 1992 by adcnatl in cdp:mideast.forum */
/* ---------- "ADC CHALLENGES WALL ST JOURNAL" ---------- */

For Immediate Release	Contact:	Leila Gorchev
April 10, 1992		(202) 244-2990 or
                                                   (202) 986-1816

            ADC PROTESTS WALL STREET JOURNAL ARTICLE:

         UNIDENTIFIED DEMOCRATS TARGET ARAB-AMERICANS AS

                        POLITICAL OUTCASTS

     The April 10, 1992 Wall Street Journal article on
Congresswoman Mary Rose Oakar (D-OH) provoked significant
indignation from the Arab-American community. Albert Mokhiber,
President of the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC)
fired off a letter to the Editor of one of the nation's most
influential newspapers.

     In a by-line story, Jill Abramson reported claims that Rep.
Oakar's views "on some key issues are at odds with some national
party leaders: she is a foe of abortion for instance, and has ties
to several Arab-American organizations."

     Mokhiber expressed the community's disgust on Abramson's
dependence on unidentified sources to denigrate Americans of Arab
descent.

     Mokhiber wrote, "After twelve years of fighting negative
stereotyping and discrimination against the Arab-American
community, we were shocked and appalled by the article written by
Jill Abramson on Congresswoman Mary Rose Oakar. Surely, the Wall
Street Journal would refuse to print such a statement reviling any
other public figure on the basis of his or her ethnic heritage.

     "This double standard must stop. Certainly, had the ethnic
group been of African, Hispanic or Israeli descent such innuendoes
would have been viewed, and rightfully so, as racist. There should
be no exception in this case.

     "Arab-Americans like all other Americans are, and should be
proud of their ancestry, culture and institutions. They should not
be blocked from full participation and political enfranchisement
either by overt actions or clandestine means."

     Mokhiber also called for the identities of the alleged
"national party leaders" of the Democratic National Committee
(DNC) to be exposed if Abramson is accurate. He further demanded
apologies from the Wall Street Journal to Congresswoman Oakar and
the Arab-American community. ADC believes this to be another
example of bigoted standards being employed against the Arab-
American community.

                               -30-

     (Note to Editors: ADC is the largest Arab-American
organization in the country. It is a non-sectarian, non-partisan
service organization dedicated to the promotion of the civil and
legal rights of people of Arab descent, including resistance to
racism, discrimination, and stereotyping of Arab-Americans. ADC
has over 25,000 members organized into 70 chapters throughout
North America.)
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: ARAFAT ALIVE-PLO BLAMES MOSSAD?!?
Date: 8 Apr 92 17:01:02 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Apr8.142507.16215@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> friedenb@egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg) writes:
>
>As reported this morning, PLO Chairman Yassir Arafat was found alive.
>
>At first report of Arafat's plane disappearing, the PLO (Pitiful Lack of Organization)
>accused the Mossad of orchestrating his assasination.  Now that Arafat has been found 
>alive, the PLO is now claims that the Mossad never had anything to do with it.
>
>Come on guys, you're slipping.  Is it the Mossad or not?

I'd like to know where you heard of the PLO blaming Mossad.

The only thing I'd heard when he was still missing was that a PLO spokesman said
that it didn't know if the plane went down due to the weather or there were 
'external influences'.  That's it.  I didn't hear anyone blame Mossad.
So what exactly are you talking about?

>
>Also, the PLO has publically thanked George Bush personally for his help in finding
>Mr. Arafat (although the US claims that they did not aid in efforts to find the plane).
>
>This is a nice attempt to try to show the PLO and the US as friends, but Charles Beiglater
>of CNN even agrees that it may have been in the US's best interests to see this man 
>dead.

I don't know what your point is here...the US's best interest as far as the
middle east is concerned is to make sure that the peace talks continue.
With Arafat disappearing, the situation would've been too volatile for 
anyone to feel comfortable with, except for extremist elements on both 
sides.

Reporters are often idiots. I'd like to know what your opinions on the 
U.S.'s best interests are.

>
>
>One step forward, two steps back!
>
>Gedaliah Friedenberg
>Department of Mechanical Engineering
>Michigan State University


-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome!)   School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
From: rwstarke@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Ross W. Starkey)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Arafat's plane crashes
Date: 8 Apr 92 21:14:37 GMT
Reply-To: rwstarke@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Ross W. Starkey)
Distribution: world
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI

Note It's Ilan U. Woll, not RW Starke, I've got permission.

Some people on the net have alleged that Israel may have shot down Arafat's 
plane, I feel that that is untrue for 2 reasons:

1. Logistics: The plane was flying from Sudan to  Southern Lebanon (according
              to the news reports I heard), so if the Israelis wanted to shoot
              it down they would need to 
     a. Have bases in Sudan
     b. Fly over Egyptian land into Sudan (avoiding radar)
     c. Fly over the Red Sea (in which case Egypt could track them).
     d. Fly over Libya and avoid detection
    
              all 4 cases would be extremely unlikely.

2. Realism:   While many Israelis would like to see Arafat dead, political
              reality indicates that the likely successor would be far more
              dangerous and unpredictable.  I think the Israeli govt is far
              more comfortable with a known enemy than an Abu Iyad (I think
              he is still alive) or George Habash who would be potentially                   far more dangerous.

Now it is possible that Israel may have sabotaged the ship, but that is not
likely (see reason 2).

Ilan U. Woll
"I am a wallrus, kookookachoo" The Beatles

  
         

-- 
Ross Starkey                         "Of course you know, this means WAR." 
rwstarke@vela.acs.oakland.edu        "This whole thing is goony, I shou'da
                                      stood in bed!"  "Gruesome, isn't it?"
FIGHT DICTATORSHIP!  VOTE!!!!                                  --Bugs Bunny
From: ghassoun@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (George Hassoun)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Want facts?  "WHO RUNS THE MEDIA?  The
Date: 14 Apr 92 06:28:12 GMT
Organization: Electrical and Electronic Eng., University of Adelaide

In article 5558@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU,
        ghassoun@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (George Hassoun) writes:
>I think the article above is an invaluable peace of information.
>It is quite long, but it tells you to what extent the media and
>consequently the brains of many generations are almost unnoticeably
>controlled by a concentrated minority of Jews.

>>I strongly disagree with your assessment of the "WHO RUNS THE MEDIA?"
>>article.  It is just a carefully screened selection of "facts"
>>without regard to context, statistical significance or honest
>>analysis.  All in all, just a house of cards.  Having said that...

I hope you're right. However one has to take into consideration, the
actual past and present practices of the so well educated Israeli government
against the generally poor, misery striken Palestinians. Those practices and
attitudes, combined with a virtual hiding of the facts (in the US), lead
any average brain to think twice, before rejecting an article containing
such information.

>When i was in the United States (1986-1991) i was always perplexed
>by the general (not always publically manifested) attitude implying
>that arabs in most cases belong to a certain well defined category
>of people. ``You don't look like an arab'' was the most frequent reaction
>i used to get when first introduced to people.  ``As if arabs could be
>classified or categorised in one single shot'', i used to think. Soon i
>learnt that the idea does not affect appearance only, but it extends to
>behaviour, way of thinking, mentality and quality of attitude. In many
>cases i used to get this astonished face, as if what i'm doing is not
>part of the common expectations.

>>The first time I lived in the US (1980-3) I was very often struck by
>>the negative (I'll say it: RACIST) way that Arabs were portrayed in
>>the media, especially the television media.  With uncommon exceptions,
>>the major TV networks only recognised the existence of two classes
>>of Arabs: (1) terrorists, (2) filthy rich.   I think the situation
>>has improved somewhat since then, but it has a long way to go.

(1)terrorist, (2)filthy rich (3)Nazi racist (and lately) (4)hmar (=donkey)
.. are certainly not the work of the loose coincidence.


>>Brendan.

George
-- 
George Hassoun
University of Adelaide, EEE Dpt.
Adelaide, South Australia
email: ghassoun@eleceng.adelaide.edu.au      Phone:(08) 228 5468
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: slater@cs.uiuc.edu (Rob Slater)
Subject: Re: Jewish Students Assaulted
Keywords: Jews Assault
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 20:28:04 GMT

souissi@ei.ecn.purdue.edu (Ridha Souissi) writes:

>I think that the two Jewish students were asking for trouble.
>They don't have the right to take pictures of other people
>without their consent.  Who gives them the permission or the
>authority.

	The law is not clear as to whether the man had the right to not have
his picture taken in a public place, but this point is moot for two reasons:
	(1) The man was clearly not in the picture.  He was way way to the left
	    of the camera.
	(2) Assault is not a proper response to this action anyway.

> The man selling the literature might have been
>also asking for trouble by selling these kinds of books.
>But are these books outlawed/censored? doesn't he have the
>right to do it?  Please keep us informed on the process of this
>case.

	The issue at hand had nothing to do with the fact that he was allowed
to sell the books.  He tried to make this an issue of censorship, but I would
not let him.  He clearly had the right to sell the books.  I have the right to
inform people that they are being sold.  A photograph of book stand in a public
place is a legal means of both of us accomplishing our goals.

--
 Rob Slater                                     | "When all else fails, try
 Choices/Tapestry -- Dept. of Computer Science  |  reading the directions!"
 University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign       |    --Rob's guiding
 Internet: rslater@uiuc.edu                     |      philosophy
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: 22387IA@MSU
Subject: Re: Alex Odeh , again... (was Re: U.S. Aid)
Organization: Michigan State University
Date: 10 Apr 1992 00:26:58 EDT

# You have to look at all these things, over several years, in the context of
# international relations and pressures and interests.  No country has a perfect
# working justuce system. I am sure there are many criminals in Western Europe
# U.S. or Arab countries that are not prosecuted, or cannot be prosecuted. I
# would just mention Nazi war criminals, Abu Abbas (Syria), Abu Nidal, the
# Dir Yassin gang (Israel).  In the context of the current drive for peace in th
                   ^^^^^^

	Unless you insist on parroting the lie originated by the Hagana
and now repeated by many, you must have meant (Arab) Here.
--

David Makowsky
makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I meant that the Dir Yassin gang is in Israel.
   Itzik
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: talks.politics.mideast
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 12:48:46 GMT

In <1992Apr13.122107.20592@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
(samuel.saal) writes:

>An interesting example:  Several Arab countries (in addition to Saudi
>Arabia and Kuwait, let alone Syria) have recently insisted that other
>countries that have telephone connections with Israel that therefore allow
>calls from Israel to go through to these Arab countries, to cut that phone
>service.

>I'd hardly call that recognition....

Actually, in a rather bizarre way, it IS recognition...

:-)

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Transfer
Originator: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 15:27:01 GMT


> Mr. Makowsky represents a small minority of the Israelis ..

> stuff deleted

Leon

I figured out that. I just wanted to direct the question to him.

Nabil

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Subject:  IF PHONE LINES ARE A RECOGNITION, THEN
Organization:  LC
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 03:09:48 GMT

the road connection via Jordan is also a recognition (Another way of
communication), Jea, this road was created 5000 years ago.  That means 
King Hosain recognized Israel 5000 years ago;  I knew the King is old
and full of gray hair, but not 5000 years old.  That is a little  too
much.

Are the destruction  and bombing flights over Lebanon  a recognition too?
I wonder!!


jle

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The above represents my opinion, and is irrelevant to that of my employer
From: jsast@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Jonathan S. Anderson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Arafat's plane crashes
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:20:07 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

The real interesting question here is the rumor I've heard saying that
the US gave satellite photos to Libya in order to help find the plane.  It
seems very unlikely to me given the current state of relations, but one never
knows.  Anybody know the truth?

-Jon Anderson


  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  
  Jon Anderson                                      jsast@unix.cis.pitt.edu
      "Won't you look down upon me Jesus, you gotta help me make a stand,
       You've just got to see me through another day.
       My body's aching and my time is at hand,
       And I won't make it any other way. "                 -James Taylor
  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Bombing of Israeli Embassy
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 23:43:05 GMT

In article <2454@creatures.cs.vt.edu> sahle@csgrad.cs.vt.edu (Eskinder Sahle) writes:
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE:
>The following post is written by Ahmed Bouzid and NOT Eskinder Sahle
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>You write about "the terrible human and national tragedy that has
>effectively destroyed Lebanon in the last generation"--but when you
>are confronted with what is causing that tragedy, all you manage to give
>us is garbled babble.  Isn't it sweet of you to be concerned about
>tragedies, Jake, when at the same time you find nothing wrong with
>the IDF shooting women and children?  How large of you to be so humane
>in the abstract, but so stone-hearted when it comes to the facts of 
>reality.
>
>It seems that with every post I write in response to you I have to lower
>myself and soil my hands with the dirtness that for some reason or
>another seems to give you a high.  I told you before that you are not
>able to string up a decent argument if your life depended on it, and
>with every post you prove me right.  Try it, Jake, try to argue with me 
>without turning ugly.  Try to stick to developing a logical argument and 
>fighting on the merits of your reasoning.  I will bet
>anything that should you venture to do such a thing you would make 
>a complete fool out of yourself.  And what's more, I have no doubt that 
>I would reduce you to tears, and accomplish this without effort.  It's a 
>challenge, Jake.  
>
>Okay, having stated my challange, I will now proceed to stoop to your
>level of discourse, lest you be disappointed, Jake, and we can't have
>that, can we: Jake, I think that you are a frustrated boy, and my 
>recommendation to you is to get  yourself a good lay.  That might clear 
>up a lot of things.  You are--partaking in the usage of your favorite prefix,
>"sub"--submental in your "reasoning", and on the whole, taking
>everything into consideration, no more than a loud idiot.
>
>Ahmed.


When you have something worth saying, by all means bring it up.
Until then, you are just typing into the bit bucket.....

-- 
Jake Livni
jake@bony1.bony.com
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Death Squads in Occupied Territories
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:59:53 GMT
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department

In article <1992Apr10.191445.7960@casbah.acns.nwu.edu> bjag@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Bharathi Jagadeesh) writes:

>I am simply astonished that Israel actually collects taxes from the people
>whose land it occupies. 

You might wonder about taxes collected from Palestineans and paid to the 
Hashemite Monarchy of Jordan.

You might wonder about taxes collected from Kurds and paid to Saddam Hussein.
You know how much THEY are getting in the way of municipal services and
government protection.

I believe that in a previous posting you complained about "taxation 
without representation" in Israel.  Can you think of ANY Arab country
where the taxpayers are truly represented?  Where the people's interests
are given even the slightest concern?

In light of this, BJag, you might reconsider your criticism of Israel.  
However, if "evenhanded fairness" requires you to complain about 
imperfect democracies while overlooking numerous and brutal dictatorships 
that will not improve no matter how much you criticise them, then we 
expect you to continue criticising Israel.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com    
American-Occupied New York
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (manu)
Subject: Re: Iran bombs "guerilla" bases in Iraq
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 00:50:41 GMT

Before I get flamed because I posted the same thing 3 times (no I wasn't 
imitating Ralph Winston), I was having trouble with my news server and tried
to abort the posting.  I guess it didn't abort. Sorry about the annoyance.

							-Manu
-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            

Do unto others before they do unto you.
I'd rather be in Paris than here.