HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: TeXBook of Lies, v1.1 announcement
Date: 17 Dec 1992 02:03 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    



I've found a couple errors in version 1.0 of the TeX _Book of Lies_ I posted
here and placed at slopoke a while back.

I plan to have the revised version 1.1 ready sometime in the next week, so if
you just got a copy of version 1.0, don't print in out in the next couple
days.











Yours etc.,




SubGenius
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: TeXBook of Lies, v1.1 announcement
From: serhienk@cobber.cord.edu (David Serhienko)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 13:35:43 GMT
Organization: Concordia College, Moorhead, MN

In article <18DEC199214492758@rigel.tamu.edu> spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius) writes:
>David Serhienko writes...
>>What is Slopoke?  An ftp site?  Can I get the address if it is?  E-mail it 
>>if you can.  advaTHANKSnce
>>David W Serhienko
>
>+----------------------------------------SubG----------------------------------+
>Slopoke is the ftp site at SLOPOKE.MLB.SEMI.HARRIS.COM, which maintains some
>of the texts oft mentioned here in alt.magick.
>
>As far as email goes, lots of people have asked me to email them copies of _The
>Book of Lies_ but I'm afraid I can't, as my system's MAIL buffer is
>considerably smaller than the considerable bulk of the text.
>
>
>Yours etc.,
>
>SubGenius
>
>

Thank You all for your prompt replies...:)

David W Serhienko
serhienk@cobber.cord.edu
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: misc.magick...
Date: 16 Dec 92 13:54:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <JOSHUA.92Dec16004436@bailey.cpac.washington.edu>, joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller) writes...
> 
>In article <1992Dec16.064254.17948@primerd.prime.com> jasonp@bungie.Prime.com 
>(Jason Pascucci) writes:
> 
>>   Comments? Negative, as well as Positive: I need encouragement. :)
> 
>how about sci.hermetic? how about making it moderated (by several people
>of disparate views, and with a pretty open policy about letting posts
>through, say)?
> 
>josh

I don't like the idea of having it moderated, at all.

- Peggy -
From: elendil@seashell.mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: misc.magick...
Date: 17 Dec 92 15:38:49 GMT
Organization: Seashell Software

jasonp@bungee.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Jason Pascucci) writes:

> However, overall, I'd still like to see if we can't make a go
> of it unmoderated...Yes there will be problems, but I don't
> like the moderation policy on some groups, and my
> Thelemic instincts (if any) tell me it's not the way to go.
> I suggest we all just learn to use kill files, and put on ice
> the people who get obnoxious.
>
> --
> Jason R. Pascucci
> jasonp@primerd.prime.com

I don't see how this group can be anything other than unmoderated.  Frankly,
given the vitriol sometimes spewed, the denunciations of one group by members
of another, the feminist/anti-feminist diatribes, etc., I don't know if this
group is ready for 'prime time' on the net yet.




|Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us|
|Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087|
From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (What a long strange trip it's been)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Singin' Those Apocalypse Blues
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:55:58 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Dec16.021041.3703@u.washington.edu>, mimir@hardy.u.washington.edu (Al Billings) writes...
>In article <1992Dec15.161411.8221@engage.pko.dec.com> stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is legion) writes:
>>
>>Are you sure you're not a Certified Public Accountant, Stock Broker or
>>Psychologist?  You appear to think like they do.
> 
> Are you sure you aren't a deadhead or some other form of new age granola?
>You seem to think like they do.
> 

Ok then... it's out in the open... we both work for the military and neither
of us admits it.  Too bad they don't pay us better, huh? :-)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: porta@wam.umd.edu (David Delaney Palmer)
Subject: Re: Pentagrams
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 03:41:09 GMT

In article <71824@cup.portal.com> Tagi@cup.portal.com (Thyagi Morgoth NagaSiva) writes:
>I only have one question for those moralists (especially from 'earth-based'
>religions) who preach that the 'point-down' or 'inverted' pentagram
>(heptagram, nonagram, or even trigram!) is somehow indicative of 'evil'
>or 'malevolence':
>
>
>Toward what, precisely, is the point directed?
>
>
>Figure it out, kiddies.
>


	I think you need to figure it son!  There is no such thing as
a hell or a devil in earth based, Goddess based religions.  The next
time you post know what the hell you are talking about.

-- 
***************************** porta@wam.umd.edu ****************************

                     Still looking for an interesting quote. 
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Hello
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 01:55:18 GMT

harish.reddy@factory.com (Harish Reddy)  writes:

>I would love to learn more about 'Magick', partly for the power trip 
                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>and, well, I think that it calls to me. I say think because it just 
>might be an extension of a desire for power ect.
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Two good reasons *not* to respond to this person.

Harish, magic is not about power-tripping.  If you want real power over people,
go into politics.

Enjoy the journey!

                      --Br'anArthur

                                      Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
"We are secretly replacing the fine quartz crystals this medicine pouch maker
usually uses with Folgers crystals.  Let's see what happens...."
                                      --DACCrowell
From: jjas@acs.nntp-read.bu.edu (Jason Stephenson)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: misc.magick...
Date: 18 Dec 92 04:50:50 GMT
	<JOSHUA.92Dec16004436@bailey.cpac.washington.edu>
	<1gnu5cINNrbt@agate.berkeley.edu>
	<1992Dec16.191607.29092@primerd.prime.com>
	<BzDHwz.D5u@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Organization: Boston University Information Technology Boston, MA USA
In-reply-to: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu's message of 16 Dec 92 22:17:00 GMT

From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown):

One thing I would like to see is a more proactive approach to 
getting newbies started on the right track, rather than flaming 
them into oblivion the first time they open their mouths and say 
something stupid.  Those who wish could write up a one paragraph
(note one paragraph, Tagi):) description of their magickal 
interests/philosophy/approach, including their email address.  
This could be posted along with the FAQ  - encouraging newbies to 
email the person who appeals to them.  It could also be 
mailed to someone who makes a totally clueless post.  This would 
also serve to represent participants (and there are many) who do 
not feel that the FAQ and/or Thelemaness of the group adequately 
represents them.

- Peggy -

-------------------- Although most of the time I just read this group
and don't post, I must say that Peggy's idea (yanked above) of the
participants list to be posted with the FAQ and sent to newbies (kind
of a 'mentor' system) certainly strikes me as about the best idea I've
heard on the subject of moderation.  It would allow for a reasonably
intelligent level of conversation without the burden of moderators
(read--censorship).

As far as what to call the group is concerned, it doesn't really
matter that much to me.  Misc.magick sounds good, better than
sci.hermetics or any of the other alternatives mentioned above.  If
this other group were to become available, I certainly would subscribe
to it as well.









Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: mimir@hardy.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Subject: Re: Singin' Those Apocalypse Blues
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 04:53:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.030921.25463@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Lupo the Butcher) writes:
>
>In fact, I suspect Mr Billings may be a member; who else would be building
>medeaval-style cannons but the sca? (and the nordic theme would fit nicely
>with a SCA personna)

 *BZZZ*

 I said nothing about "medeaval" (sp!) style cannons. I just said cannons.
I believe almost all cannons are out of the SCA time period. I am also not
a member. The group that I was refering to with the cannons were actually
Buckskinners. These are people like the SCA, in a way but a bit less
sci-fi fannish and flaky, who recreate period costumes and modes of living
of the American Fur Trade circa 1780 - 1830. They get together for
rendevous in the hills all over the country. They also are the main reason
by Black Powder Hunting is around as those are the weapons of the period.
That is where I learned to shoot a .50 calibar muzzle loading rifle, throw
large knives and tomahawks, and put up a tipia quickly and easily. (I also
learned how to wear a wool breechcloth and leather clothing but we won't
discuss that).

 As to my 'nym, I am an Asatruar (among other things) which is a form of
Germanic Heathenry (Neo-Paganism). That is where my name and interests
come from.

Wassail,
Grendel Grettisson

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: Singin' Those Apocalypse Blues
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
	<1992Dec15.062017.9630@sobeco.com>
	<1992Dec16.134133.18046@cattnts.canada.ncr.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:44:48 GMT


In article <1992Dec16.134133.18046@cattnts.canada.ncr.com> 
craig@cattnts.canada.ncr.com (Craig Campbell) writes:

>   In article <1992Dec15.062017.9630@sobeco.com> ladislas@sobeco.com 
>   (Ladislas A.) writes:

>   >This civilization is gangrenous.  Like the Phoenix, it must immolate 
>   >itself to be reborn from its ashes.

this is, of course, abject nonsense. things are better now, for more people,
then they ever have been in human history. more people eat adequate diets,
live longer and healthier lives, fewer women die in childbirth, etc etc, 
than at any time previous to this. I am not saying that there are not
problems, but even with these problems, this is true.

>   Yes, there is plenty wrong with the world, but things are getting better.
>   If we can survive, then I hope that we can grow and evolve into something
>   better and better.  To destroy civilization and start over is drastic.

um, no one is talking about destroying anything; certain people think
civilization is going to fall, and the sensible people disagree.

josh
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Subject: FAQ request
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:06:39 GMT


I seem to have cleverly lost the copy I had been saving.  Can someone
please email me a replacement?  Thanks.

Jim
--
James W. Meritt:  m23364@mwunix.mitre.org - or - jmeritt@mitre.org
The opinions above are mine.  If anyone else wants to share them, fine.
They may say so if they wish. The facts "belong" to noone and simply are.
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: moderation (was: Re: misc.magick...)
Date: 20 Dec 92 04:15:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <JOSHUA.92Dec19041838@bailey.cpac.washington.edu>, joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller) writes...
> 
>a moderated newsgroup works thus:
> 
>the moderator(s) receive posts as mail. they then approve them, and
>send them out to the net. moderation can be loose or tight. This is
>how I would propose to moderate a 'mainstream' magickal newsgroup
>(and the perceptive reader may have noticed that I am have somewhat
>ambiguous feelings about the necessity for such):
> 
>the moderator group would consist of at least three moderators, say
>BA, amanda and myself (as you can see disparate views would be represented
>here). any first post from anyone whatsoever would be approved. disapproval
>would have to be unanimous for a post to be rejected. rejected posts would
>be returned to the sender with editorial comments and suggestions.
> 
>josh

I still don't like the idea.  Something bad enough to offend all 
3 of you, I'd want to see.

The only good thing, is that the person who complains the 
most about stupid posts would have to read them all.:)  One 
question though, would the editorial comments consist of 
"fuck-off" remarks or would they be helpful?

- Peggy -
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: scarrobi@shearson.com (Steve Carrobis)
Subject: Re: does magick work?
Reply-To: scarrobi@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 14:46:46 GMT

In article 724634824@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca, adam@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca (Adam Mark) writes:
> 
> 	Hello witches ,sorcerers and other practioners of the occult
> arts. My question is does anyone have a way of getting me out of a tight 
> financial situation? Any help ,direct or by pointing me in the right
> direction would be greatly appreciated. I am trying all the
> conventional methods myself
> Thanks in advance             


sure. get a job. if u have a job. pay your existing bills and dont make new ones.
get a loan to consolidate your existing debt.
if all esle fails file for bankruptcy.

---
Steve C. 

 ==> A wise man once told me - There ARE NO Wise Men !
                             - Just fools who think they are.
---------------------------------------------------------------		
 I understand you need someone to do work.
 I don't do work, but, I know this guy who does.
    -Vladimir Taltos
---------------------------------------------------------------
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: TeXBook of Lies, v1.1 announcement
Date: 19 Dec 1992 16:36 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    


Near as I can tell, it's at slopoke now, in the INCOMING directory, called
LIES.TEX, as distinguished from v1.0, which was called LIES.TEX.











Yours etc.,





SubGenius
From: byte@hrnowl.lonestar.org (Sir Byte)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: misc.magick...
Date: 20 Dec 92 17:58:24 GMT
Organization: Horned Owl BBS, Houston Texas.

> |> i suggest talk.magick
> |> moderated (with lenient post rulesjust keep the bible thumpers out)
> 
Pardon the typos but,  I kinda like the idea of having Xtains on ?.magick 
if we don't have any opposite opinions well there really is'nt any point 
of have the board it will become more like a recipe xchange circut and 
the only topic of disscusion will be small variations in magickal rites.  
besides the Xtains are the ones who censor were are supposed to represent 
the open mind of the country.  Unless you would like to jump on there 
band wagon of 'my why is the only way' and not even entertain there right 
to hold an opinon-
                 -SirByte'*

Magick is not something you practice it is e1something you live-
                    -Me
From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is legion)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Singin' Those Apocalypse Blues
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:05:37 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Dec15.010325.17173@u.washington.edu>, grimoire@byron.u.washington.edu (John Greer) writes...
> 
>"My name is...", whom I'll abbreviate MNI here for the sake 
>of sanity, simply refuses to accept the problem and insists that there
>will be some way out because, well, there has to be.

No... because we choose that there be.. that's what magickians do, isn't it?

> 
> 
>Peggy, on the other hand, is indulging in the common superstition that
>wishful thinking and optimism are omnipotent in the universe.  She
>decries what she calls "pessimism."  Is it pessimism to recognize the
>existence of a significant threat and want to take steps to avert it?

No.. it's survival.

> 
>And then there's MNI.  Sheesh.  Does this sound as silly to the rest
>of you as it does to me?  We have to come up with some way to pull 
>through, the argument runs (and it's not the first time I've heard
>it), because, well, er, there's no other alternative.
> 
>But there is another alternative, of course.  We can fail, and die,
>like every prior civilization.  
> 
>He also says -- and this I'm going to quote, to get the full benefit
>of the line -- 
> 
>>at this point.  We're magickians, why think with limitations like the
>>mundanes? 

Are you sure you're not a Certified Public Accountant, Stock Broker or
Psychologist?  You appear to think like they do.

> 
>Well, I'm not a "magickian", as I have some lingering respect for the
>English language (he struggles into his Nomex suit, fast, hoping to
>outpace the inevitable flames), but as a ceremonial magician of some
>years' experience I have to say that I find thinking with limitations
>rather useful when, say, I want to interact with the physical world.
>I would much rather walk through a door, for instance, than try to
>force my way through a brick wall, and I prefer to feed my body at
>something approaching regular intervals rather than trying to transcend
>the material plane in time to avoid death by malnutrition...

How much thought does it take to walk through a door?

>Similarly, when I'm dealing with a huge, creaky and rather dysfunctional
>civilization that may just be at the beginning of its death throes, and
>I find that it doesn't seem to respond too well to attempts to change
>its course to one a little less self-destructive, I start thinking of
>things I can do here in the World of Assiah to see to it that I, and
>the people I care about, can dodge as many of the bad effects of the
>potential collapse as possible...and, among other things, I post a
>question to alt.magick...
> 
>-- John Michael Greer
>   grimoire@u.washington.edu

Oh well John... posting a question to alt.magick should solve everything and
completely insure the well being of you and the people you care about... 
I guess we can all relax now. 
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: Singin' Those Apocalypse Blues
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
	<1992Dec11.182521.19366@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:37:46 GMT


In article <1992Dec11.182521.19366@u.washington.edu> 
grimoire@byron.u.washington.edu (John Greer) writes:

>  In article <1992Dec10.155541.3868@engage.pko.dec.com> 
>  stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (Hair Eris) writes:

>   >					 but I've come to the conclusion
>   >that it makes a lot more sense to work to preserve what we (as a
>   >nation/culture/species/whatever) have now, rather than stand by and 
>   >watch it all fall apart and then try to re-build it.  
>   >Don't you think it's worth saving?

>   The problem is this.  Our current civilization is dependent on a system of
>   economic, agricultural and ecological practices which are unsustainable
>   even over a timespan of decades.  Even at the present time, we could
>   change to sustainable ways of living only at the cost of a massive,
>   wrenching dislocation involving a radical drop in the standard of living
>   across the entire developed world.  (Figures from one source I've read
>   recently suggest that we'd have to accept the standard of living of 
>   Brazil.)

statements of this kind usually only take into account resources available
on this planet; with the exploitation of extraterrestrial resources there
is more than enough for everyone on the planet to have a high standard of
living. if for whatever reason, we do not exploit extraterrestrial resources,
I will admit things will probably get sort of grim, but I really don't think
that is too likely (in other words, over the next 50 years or so, I fully
expect systematic exploitation of off-planet resources to get off the ground).
these club-of-rome, rifkinesque sayings of doom also fail to take into account
the development of new technologies (like nanotechnology or fusion power)
which are also more than likely in the near future.

add into this the decimation of the populace likely to occur in many of the
worst case nations, for various reasons, and you end up with a situation where
there are fewer have-nots and more to go around.

>   So here we are.  A small minority of us, maybe, are wiling to accept
>   the sacrifices needed to ensure a future to this civilization. We don't
>   have the power to get the majority, who aren't, to follow suit.  

and I, for one, am very glad that you don't. just how, pray tell, would you
'get the majority ... to follow suit', were you able to? confiscatory taxation?
set up some camps? just take them out and shoot them? the possibilities are
endless.


josh
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: heff@apollo.hp.com (Jeff Oesterle)
Subject: Food for Fasting
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:37:01 GMT
Reply-To: heff@apollo.hp.com (Jeff Oesterle)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories



So, I'm planning on fasting in a couple of weeks, and I'm wondering
what the best way to go about it is.

The options available seem to be water only, varieties of juices, 
and/or vitamins.  I've heard different recommendations, and would
like to get more information.   A FOAF who studied nutrition as an
undergrad seems to think that drinking juices would be worse on the
ole digestive system than drinking just water.  Does this make sense?



Jeff Oesterle

================
"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, 
nor should they be considered patriots.  This is one nation under God."
                                         - George Bush
<choke> <cough> Say WHAT?!?!?!?
================

(Disclaim, disclaim, disclaim.)
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: MUDs and Reality (Theory, LONG)
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:29:50 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


Thyagi:

The common assumption is that cyber realms are MUDs and NONcyber 
realms are NOT (i.e. that NONcyber realms are 'reality').
However, given the definitions above we can posit that what most 
people call 'real life' (RL) is actually an experience within a 
NONcyber realm of subjective or objective dimensions. 

LF:

I agree with this. Most people don't seem to understand that all
they have is a perception of 'reality', that all they have is a set of
interpretations of sensory experiences.

An interesting piece, which I will read a little more carefully when I
have time.

A further comment: maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything about
realms without form. I am not sure yet if they qualify as MUDs. But I
am sometimes in states of awareness in which there is no form, as I
understand it. Any comments on this?

				-lorenzo
-- 
Happiness is just a                     ******************************
remembrance away.                       *  Lorenzo Farris            *
                                        *  farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu *
                                        ******************************
Newsgroups: alt.magick