HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: u912078@daimi.aau.dk (S|ren Erland Vest|)
Subject: Tracon II. What?
Organization: DAIMI: Computer Science Department, Aarhus University, Denmark
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 22:30:26 GMT

Hi all.
Fogive me, if I sound stupid, but I got aware of this group only a couple of 
days ago, and this talk about Tracon II has made me dizzy... :)

I'm totally hooked on Tracon, and I would like to know if it's a completely different game, or only an update?

Furthermore, if it's a different game, where can I get it, and does anyone know
if it has come to Europe? I hven't seen it around.

Regards,
Soeren E.

Strapped to the chair at the city's gaschamber,
               why I'm here I can't quite remember

                            -Guns'n'Roses

--------------------------------------------------------------------
SnailMail:                                    E-mail:
Soeren Erland    \_\_\_  \_\_\_  \_   \_
Hvedevangen 26    \_      \_      \_   \_
8200 Aarhus N      \_\_\_  \_\_    \_   \_   u912078@daimi.aau.dk
                        \_  \_       \_ \_
86 10 66 68          \_\_\_  \_\_\_    \_

                            -the one
--------------------------------------------------------------------

                  HUSH!, little baby,
                  don't say a word,
                  and never mind the noise you heard.
                  It's just the beasts under your bed,
                  in your closet,
                  IN YOUR HEAD...

                    -Metallica
From: scott@swindle.berkeley.edu (Scott Silvey)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: What is realism? (Re: Falcon MC Demo (at la)
Date: 24 Nov 92 00:03:28 GMT
Followup-To: rec.aviation.simulators
Organization: UC Berkeley Experimental Computing Facility (XCF)
NNTP-Posting-Host: swindle.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: rdd@cactus.org's message of Mon, 23 Nov 1992 06:11:21 GMT



% Nope.  I'm a pilot, and a simulator enthusiast.  I've been playing them since
% FS1, and have time in the real thing, too (707, 727, 747, A310, A320).  In my% not so humble opinion, Hellcats has the best flying characteristics of the 
% lot: it's the most like an airplane.  Its real contribution IS its 
% sophisticated flight model (and nicely done graphics)


Right, I like the Hellcat's ability to out-turn the Zero with a flat
turn (rudder only) at any speed and altitude.  I like how the Hellcat
can sustain a maximum G pitching turn with hardly any speed loss ...
you CANNOT get the Hellcat into a maneuvering stall.  I like how Zeros
are like slugs in the sky compared to the Hellcat.  I think its is
really cool that you can extend full flaps and gear at 300+ knots with
no ill effects.

Impeccable realism!

It's an arcade game.  A good one.

Scott
From: mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Looking for Mailing Lists...
Date: 20 Nov 92 15:57:35 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

There have been several people mailing me wanting to know if there are any
mailing lists for the various flight simulators.  If you have any of the
following information, please E-Mail it to me so I can include it in the
FAQ:

   Falcon 3 Mailing List -- Someone sent me info on this once, but I
                            accidentally deleted it.  :(

   ATP Mailing List -- I was on this at one time, then all of a sudden,
                       everything just stopped coming.  Anyone know what
                       happened?  Does it still exist?

   Flight Simulator -- Is there a mailing list for this?  If not, does
                       anyonee wanna start one?

   Any other lists out there --  Mail me and let me know...

  Please tell me exactly how to subscribe to the respective mailing list
so it can be put in the FAQ.  Thanks!


-- 
John Mechalas                                          "I'm not an actor, but
mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu                                 I play one on TV."
Aero Engineering, Purdue University                     #include disclaimer.h
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: draper@ais.org (Patrick Draper)
Subject: Re: Yeager's Combat Sim.
Organization: UMCC
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 22:15:25 GMT

There's a new one from Electronic Arts (publishers of CYAC) that looks kind
of neat. The box says it has a ton of aircraft that it simulates.

I can't remember the name --- someone help me out!!

Is it any good?


------------------////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\------------------
| Patrick Draper           Disclaimer:  I can't control my fingers,        |
| draper@umcc.ais.org                   I can't control my toes! - Ramones |
| University of Michigan Computer Club                                     |
NO CARRIER                     We are a nation of laws, not people         |
------------------\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\////////////////////------------------
From: 2559johnsonr@vms.csd.mu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: X-Wing
Date: 22 Nov 1992 06:28:52 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
Reply-To: 2559johnsonr@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsd.csd.mu.edu

I hope this is considered a flight Simulator, but here goes...
LucasArts Games is putting out the X-Wing simulator soon.
Supposedly you can fly an X-Wing, Y-WIng or A-Wing fighter.  The
Software Etc.  store near me said Nov. 20 was the release date (hah!)
All the other stores I've talked to say "November or December"
I called the 1-800 number for LucasArts, and they say "By Christmas"
I've been Star Wars crazy since '77, (I had the biggest stupidest grin
on my face when I rode Star Tours at Disney MGM studios!) and I really
want to get that game as soon as it comes out, so my questions:
1.) Anybody know a REAL release date?
2.) Anybody know if there is a Demo out there (even something just showing
    what some of the graphics will look like (ala F15 strike Eagle III)?

On a related (release dates)note...
Anbody know a probable release date for 
F15 Strike Eagle III
Strike Commander
A-10 Avenger
???
Thanks in Advance.

Rob Johnson
2559johnsonr@vms.csd.mu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: eyal@echo.canberra.edu.au (Eyal Lebedinsky)
Subject: How free is SGI's flight simulators?
Summary: I want to use a small part is my program and release the source.
Organization: Info Sci & Eng, University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA
Date: 23 Nov 92 08:13:23 GMT

Hi,

I have a flight simulation program which now works on pcdos, MsWindows,
Amiga and Unix/X11. I am close to having it ready for posting to some
net archive. The program has a number of flight models but the only
reasonably complete one is a straight lift of code from the SGI flight
simulator (I am talking about maybe 100 C lines on code). I understand
that this program was readily available but definitely not public
domain; not even freely re-distributable.

I still want to include this small piece of code without offending
anybody, so the question is can I use it? Anyone from SGI listening?
After all this is a demo and not a commercial product (and 10 years old
by now) so it had a good run....

BTW, I realize that the SGI model is still not HiFi but it looks like a
good compromise.

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: morris@mksol.dseg.ti.com (jerry a morris)
Subject: acm help techno help
Organization: Texas Instruments
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 02:43:55 GMT

I have the acm and untared it now i have this thing with all the
 makefiles.  the problem is i don't know what to do with the makefiles.


If it is simple to compile could someone post or email me a little
help or tell me of a book where this procedure is discribed.

thanks in advance
jerry
morris@ap040.dseg.ti.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: seamans@nlm.nih.gov (James R. Seamans)
Subject: Re: TraconII (Pilot Requests)
Reply-To: seamans@nlm.nih.gov
Organization: National Library of Medicine
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 16:13:23 GMT

In article 17021@acuson.com, griffith@acuson.com (Paul Griffiths) writes:

>an 2 hour shift at the local tracon centre, and so I have to turn
>all Talking off, though truthfully I have found when this is off, 
>I can issue probaly twice as many commands per sweep...which

>can be a real point saver when you have two planes landing, two planes
>close to be handed off..etc..etc.. Ok, as I was saying because I
>have talking off, I usually miss the initial request as it goes by
>on the "little" communication screen.  I know that there will be
>a "REQ" flag placed on the plane making the request and usually
>spot those right away...however there is no way of finding out what
>he/she asked for...  So I usually end up just leaving him alone...
>I've  missed out on a couple of emergency requests this way as well...

>		-Paul

But that is were the fun really begins.  You'r vectoring seven aircraft, you
need to issue instructions and someone is out there giving the family history
tying up the frequency.  Almost like the real thing.  You need to turn an
aircraft in the next five seconds or overshoot the localizer. Hot!!


---
Jim Seamans        seamans@nlm.nih.gov
National Library of Medicine - National Institutes of Health
Bldg 38A RM 712 8600 Rockville Pike Bethesda, MD   20894
(voice) 301 496-4441   (fax) 301 402-0118
From: rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: TraconII (Pilot Requests)
Date: 19 Nov 92 00:59:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: cactus.1992Nov19.005941.28624
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx

In article <skip.179.721933075@mitre.org> skip@mitre.org (Skip Guild) writes:
>In article <1992Nov13.190615.17021@acuson.com> griffith@acuson.com (Paul Griffiths) writes:
>>I guess I'm writing this hoping that someone has an idea how I can
>>keep on top of the communication screen...I'm sure most of you using
>>TRACONII know that staring at the Comm screen would certainly end up
>>in 1) Driving you mad...2) A mid-air...3) Missing possible conflicts..
>>Is there any way of finding out what their request was?!?
>
>I use Tracon for Windows and have learned to expand the comm window not to 
>maximum size, but to a vertical and horizontal size sufficient to see all 
>past messages retained by the program.  

TRACON //-Mac saves the last few hundred calls in a scrollable buffer...:-)

I agree, there should be "say again" logic.




---
Robert Dorsett
rdd@cactus.org
...cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!rdd
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: AAF, ATP and other ramblings
Date: 17 Nov 92 23:22:24 GMT
Reply-To: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.  Engineering

In article <1992Nov17.010709.8551@trl.oz.au>, wallace@titan.trl.OZ.AU (Glenn 
Wallace) writes:
> Well, I bought AAF (Aircraft and Adventure Factory).
> 
> I've only been working with the Aircraft Factory...
> 
> It is quite good. You can do interesting things with it.
> The structure capability (drawing a plan and side elevation and then
> dropping bulheads of various predefined shapes onto these templates to
> create a solid object) is very powerful, once you figure out how it
> works!!! 

I'm trying to make a Pitts S-2B.  Anyone have any idea what values to
put in the .sim file?


Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com or 74616.2237@compuserve.com
SHO  GOZE
From: marla@lucerne.Eng.Sun.COM (Marla Parker)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: PC simulator for helicopters (SKYLARK r/c flight sim)
Date: 19 Nov 1992 21:09:43 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: lucerne

I'm posting this for a friend who has read-only access to
the net.  Please post responses here, or send mail to
scotts@vnet.ibm.com.

>I'm enclosing the original request from my German friend:
>
>> From: Norbert Onnenberg Projekt AS KONTES-ANDI, Kst.:4209
>> 5300 Bonn - 2, Godesberger Allee 115, Tel.:0228-881-588,Fax:586
>> NE 02131-1591-413,Fax:-222
>> Subject: PC simulator for helicopters (SKYLARK r/c flight simulator)
>> Hi there,
>> Martin just called in and asked me about the above mentioned simulator.
>> Have you ever heard about it ?
>> You must know that Martin is a scale modell helicopter pilot and crashes
>> a lot of money in the soil due to less experience.
>> He hopes to save bundles of the German greenback by taking some simulator
>> lessions.
>> Could you find out the company or dealer who sells that stuff, the address
>> and the price? A complete set should include the software, control box
>> and game card.
>> Thank's in advance,
>> Ciao, Onni
>
>If you could just ask for any info on the SKYLARK helicopter flight simulator
>for a PC (address and price for software, control box, and game card).


--
Marla Parker		(415) 336-2538
marla@eng.sun.com
PP-ASEL-IA		N11905
From: bobc@natinst.com (Bob Conyne)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: Yeagers' Air Combat
Date: 18 Nov 1992 16:58:19 -0600
Organization: National Instruments, Austin, TX
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: eagle.natinst.com

In article <18NOV199212150714@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov> hanlon@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Casey Hanlon (SVER)) writes:
>I've got both this [Yeager]
>and the Aces of The Pacific, in my opinion Air Combat is a superior
>simulation.
>
>Casey Hanlon 

Well I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this point.  In reality, each
game has a different niche: AC is more of a seat-of-the pants, shoot 'em up
type of simulation, while Aces is designed to be more of a historical, mission
oriented affair.  IMHO, the graphics in AC leave a lot to be desired -- very
chunky, VERY mediocre control panels.  The graphics renditions in Aces blow it
away.  There is also a lot more variety in the types of air combat available in
Aces -- dive bombings, torpedo runs, strafing, air-to-air combat, plus the
bane of all naval aviators: carrier landings.  On the other hand, the price of
the superior graphics is a somewhat slower frame rate, meaning game play will
be unacceptably slow on anything less than a 386.

Not to take anything away from AC.  It is excellent.  Aces of the Pacific, 
however, is a masterpiece.

Just my opinion.
--Bob
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: djablon@athena.mit.edu (Daniel J. Jablonski)
Subject: Re: FS4 - Cross Continent Flying...
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 21:29:47 GMT

In article <10292319.71995.17231@kcbbs.gen.nz> David_Martin@kcbbs.gen.nz (David Martin) writes:
>>
>>How do you folks navigate when you fly from Chicago to LA, or
>>from Seattle to San Fransisco or...
>>
>>I've managed twice to fly from Chicago to New York simply by studying
>>the map view comparing it to a world atlas, and then finding a course
>>with compass... Works fine without wind.
>>
>>Why are there no VORs outside the areas described in the manual. It
>>wouldn't take much space to include those in the manual / scenery
>>files. 
>I have the same problem.  The best method is to get hold of some Jeppeson 
>charts.  I use the US(HI)1 and US(HI)2 charts which stretch all the 
>way across the states.
>They show the possible routes that can be taken and from those I take 
>an approximate bearing, set the plane on auto-pilot then go out for 
>the day while the good old Learjet cruises across America :-)
>When you get reasonably close the map view is best for orientating yourself.
>
>I agree, VOR beacons all the way across would be very helpfull and ATC 
>coommunications aswell-maybe that'll all be in the next version?
>
>Spot ya round like a squashed tinnie.
>
>David Martin
>David_Martin@kcbbs.gen.nz
>(This address will be changing shortly.

I also use slew to check on my progress.  If you switch to 
slew for just long enough to check your position, you can compare it to a 
line between the two areas.  I do this regularly when I go SEA-SAN.
I also check the position of the northernmost airport in the SFO area
(Red Bluff at 18347x5500),  When I get to 18347, I check my west location,
and I know exactly where I am.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: Yeager's Combat Sim.
From: David_Martin@kcbbs.gen.nz (David Martin)
Date: 22 Nov 92 17:02:15 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

I agree with you-all the aircraft handle differently.
MIG-19's seem to be very difficult to shoot down with missiles but you 
have a much better chance with a good rear aspect AIM-9.  But, when 
you do hit them they sure do "go down in flames."

The bigger aircraft seem to take two missile hits to down them as does 
the Su-25.  I finally managed to straffe a target a couple of days ago-don't 
bother trying it agains tanks and armoured vehicles as it simply will 
not work but a run against trucks should end up with some of them smoking.

Damage also seems to be very realistic, and more than once I have had 
great fun bracketing a Su-27 which was smoking badly (presumably flamed 
out).

High fedelity flight model also is extreemly usefull as far as realism 
goes with the F-16 actually handling differently at low speeds.
Having just promoted myself to the enemy skill level of ace, I would 
recomend it too anyone who is looking for realism.  It isn't that much 
more difficult than the other levels but it's nice to see the enemy 
aircraft actually using their brains-you soon learn not to make head 
on passes at aircraft that are equiped with cannons.

Another note on the Mig-19, I have had many of them creep up behind 
me while flying in formation then hammer us with their cannons.  You 
don't get any warning on your threat indicator due to the fact that 
they arn't emitting.  This is one situation where you need to check 
six.  

Cul8r
David Martin
David_Martin@kcbbs.gen.nz

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: tblackma@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Marauder)
Subject: Re: What is realism? (Re: Falcon MC Demo (at la)
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 04:47:49 GMT

In article <SCOTT.92Nov23160328@swindle.berkeley.edu> scott@swindle.berkeley.edu (Scott Silvey) writes:
>
>
>% Nope.  I'm a pilot, and a simulator enthusiast.  I've been playing them since
>% FS1, and have time in the real thing, too (707, 727, 747, A310, A320).  In my% not so humble opinion, Hellcats has the best flying characteristics of the 
>% lot: it's the most like an airplane.  Its real contribution IS its 
>% sophisticated flight model (and nicely done graphics)
>
>
>Right, I like the Hellcat's ability to out-turn the Zero with a flat
>turn (rudder only) at any speed and altitude.  I like how the Hellcat
>can sustain a maximum G pitching turn with hardly any speed loss ...
>you CANNOT get the Hellcat into a maneuvering stall.  I like how Zeros
>are like slugs in the sky compared to the Hellcat.  I think its is
>really cool that you can extend full flaps and gear at 300+ knots with
>no ill effects.
>
>Impeccable realism!
>
>It's an arcade game.  A good one.
>
>Scott

Dude, you must not have played Hellcats recently because almost all the things
you have stated do happen in the simulation(except the wheels and the Flaps)
Do a nice high speed, high g turn and watch the speed really drop in no time
flat.  The Rudder may not be accurate, but at least it has one, and I dare 
you to try and outrun a zero(or frank for that matter) in leyte Gulf.
Good luck, you may do it in a nice shallow dive.

P.S. Stalls happne all the time in hellcats and performace does increase
and decrease according to altitude.  And you CANNOT out turn a zero with
the rudder only.

-- 
tblackma@gn.ecn.purdue.edu--------------------------Thomas Blackman
Paint em all, let the judges sort em out.          Go team Tippmann
Xref: sparky rec.aviation.simulators:469 comp.sys.ibm.pc.games:22818
From: hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
Subject: Re: COMDEX - 4-view flight sim (put up or shut up)
Date: 21 Nov 92 08:31:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Nov21.083142.11837
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Well, finally a multiple-view PC flight simulator is available to the
lay person.

BAO, the people who wrote MS Flight Sim v4.0, who had Mallard market it
for them, who in turn go thru Microsoft, has came out with a 4-view
flight sim called the BAO-Zero, at a price of... $2995!  The price includes
all the software required, plus 4 LAN-cards (yes, you need 4 high-powered
PC's).  I tried out the machine at Comdex and it is fantastic.

You get the front view, left view, right view, plus the instrument
view.  Actually all the views are available in FS4, just that now you 
can see all these views all at one time.  They had 3 big 20" screens 
for the 3 main views, with a small 14" at the bottom of the front view
for the instrument panel (which display the instrument panel plus 
a chase-plane view).

They also come out with a "Thunderchair".  It is a "elastic" chair which 
has 2 speakers on the side.  When playing, it make the whole chair vibrates
like a real airplane.  Complete with secure locations for Thrustmaster
WCS and FCS Pro (which they had there), the chair list at $625.  You can
also buy in parts.

All the above are from BAO.
From: rab@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU (Richard Alan Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: What is realism? (Re: Falcon MC Demo (at la)
Date: 24 Nov 1992 08:56:34 +1100
Organization: School of Physics, University of Melbourne
NNTP-Posting-Host: ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au

In article <1992Nov23.061121.8144@cactus.org> rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett) writes:
>In article <1873.339.uupcb@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.us> glen.kawano@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.us (Glen Kawano)  writes:
>
[excellent article on simulators deleted]
>
>
>
>---
>Robert Dorsett
>rdd@cactus.org
>...cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!rdd

This may be a stupid question, but have you looked at Flight Simulator ATP?
it certainly doesn't cover every facet of simulation you detailed, but 
certainly covers quite a few that are *not* covered by the three sims
mentioned. Notably ATC interaction (producing a realistic workload), correct
fuel burn, geographical continuity, much better instrumentation than FS4
(for civil aircraft, two panels, different panels for different aircraft
etc), and more. 
I was so intrigued by ATP that when I was last in New Zealand I intentionally
hitched a few rides with my airline pilot brother in law in the
jump seat (737) to look at the procedures, systems etc.
In comparison, the ATC interaction is spot on, general procedures are faithfully
reproduced (note that I'm not saying flight characteristics), and the overall
complexity is similar (slight simplification of engine controls, though
on ATP at least things like EPR, and Temps etc are instrumented).

In terms of handling, I had to wait for an afternoon in the simulator at the
airline base. In comparison, it seems like the handling is pretty well
reproduced. Of course ATP cannot give as complex visual feedback as a 
multimillion dollar simulator, but it terms of 'flying the numbers' it is
good. The emphasis with ATP is more a procedures sim than purely  fly around
(as in FS4).

Anyway, my brother in law 'flies' ATP a lot and has become quite a fanatic,
and reports that the 747 (the only other real ATP type he has flown) is pretty 
accurate. My own comparisons between ATP and FS4, are that it is a lot easier
to land a 737 flown by thrust settings and on a glideslope, than the 
primitive squirrely effort that an ILS on FS4 requires. FS4 appears to have 
unrealistic altitude effects. ATP overall makes you realise the complexity
of *airline* sims. You must load fuel yourself, and the weight to handling
correlation is very noticeable (especially landing at Denver with a
miscalculated over-heavy load of fuel!).

It is probably a good sign, that when a review appeared in a the a computer
lift-out in a newspaper here, the author wrote off ATP as too complicated,
too detailed, and incomprehensible to the average PC game player (!).

worth a look anyway for AUS$89...

cheers
AListair Scott
afs@tauon.ph.unimelb.edu.au

and 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators