HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Subject: Re: objects and closures
Originator: clamen@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
	<9210302223.AA11001@cs.columbia.edu> <720756315@sheol.UUCP>
	<Bx5DFt.7z3@dcs.ed.ac.uk> <knight.720976513@cunews>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 04:29:01 GMT

In article <knight.720976513@cunews> knight@mrco.carleton.ca (Alan Knight) writes:

   In <Bx5DFt.7z3@dcs.ed.ac.uk> pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley) writes:

   >I think this is an excellent and thought-provoking analogy.  Objects
   >are closures you can keep track of in your head.  This is why I'm not
   >clear why you'd want ML-style closures and higher-orderness in an
   >object oriented language; it seems contrary to the style of OO
   >programming.  

   I don't think it's contrary the spirit of OO programming. I'm fond of
   closures and higher-orderness in general, regardless of whether the
   language is OO. Smalltalk certainly makes very extensive use of them,
   and is usally considered OO.

Scheme, which introduced closures to a lisp-like language, was devised
by Steele and Sussman to implement some of the ideas of Hewitt that
eventually led to Actors.  The relationship between closures and
object-orientedness is historical.



--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 268 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3891, USA
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: "Ronald C. Schultz" <p00058@psilink.com>
Subject: Constraint Management / Consistency Checking
Organization: Berard Software Engineering, Inc.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 11:09:08 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

Does anyone have any references as to how to implement constraints or 
consistency checking within object-oriented systems?  I am interested in 
financial applications, but examples from CAD, CASE, ... would all be 
appreciated.  As an example of what I am looking for, consider a 
financial transaction system that has a stated rule that for a 
particular checking account, that is only a credit card account for the same 
customer can be used to  provide overdraft protection for the checking 
account.  I am looking for a means to centrally locate these "rules" or 
constraints so that if the rule changes, I can change it in one location 
without having to recompile code.  Similar kinds of rules appear in CASE 
tools to restrict, or constrain, the connecting of one symbol to other 
symbols in a diagram.

Thanx,
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ron Schultz 
Berard Software Engineering, Inc.
Columbus, Ohio Office                   Headquarters
5634 Claire Court                       101 Lakeforest Blvd.
Dublin, Ohio 43017-2440                 Gaithersburg, Md.  20877
(614) 798-0295 Phone                    (301) 417-9884 Phone
(614) 798-0296 FAX                      (301) 417-0021 FAX
ron@bse.com                             info@bse.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky comp.object:4215 comp.lang.smalltalk:2285
From: bruce@utafll.uta.edu (Bruce Samuelson)
Newsgroups: comp.object,comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: Cost Estimating Using Function Points
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:38:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: utafll.BRUCE.92Nov12163817
Organization: UTexas at Arlington, Linguistics

You can find similar information on function points in an old article
in Computerworld: Nov 7, 1988, page ninety something.
--
**********************************************************
* Bruce Samuelson	Department of Linguistics	 *
* bruce@ling.uta.edu	University of Texas at Arlington *
**********************************************************
Subject: Re: OO A/D and Class Responsibility Cards (CRC) 
Distribution: world
Organization: Rundart Limited
Reply-To: gt@rundart.demon.co.uk
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.18)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 02:51:51 +0000


In article <1992Nov5.171309.20913@dragon.acadiau.ca> 880445p@dragon.acadiau.ca writes:

>I am currently doing my thesis on OO Analysis/Design Techniques.
>
>It is often advised that Class Responsibilty Cards (CRC) could be used  
>to help conceptualize the progression from OO Analysis to OO Design. 
>(I hope to implement such a tool using SmallTalk_80.)
>
>I'd like to request comments from those who have tried using these
>cards (ie. opinions, references, methodologies used).

CRC cards are very useful indeed in the early stages of design when one
is identifying objects, their responsibilities and their relationships
with other objects (how's that for obfuscating everything which is
implied in their name?).

An implementation in Smalltalk?  Hmm.  A good student project perhaps
but in practical terms a 5" by 3" card box, a supply of cards, a pencil
and a rubber (eraser for North American readers) are all that is
required to make use of this technique.  Advanced practitioners also
make use of black or white boards together with the appropriate chalk or
pens.

There was a good article about using CRC cards in "The C++ Report"
Volume 3 Number 8 (September 1991).

Giles.
-- 
Giles Todd                      gt@rundart.demon.co.uk (Internet)
Voice: +44 925 33472            PGP 2.0 public key available.
Rundart Ltd, 5 Brentnall Close, Great Sankey, Warrington, WA5 1XN, UK
Newsgroups: comp.object,comp.os.mach
From: Mark Kovarski <kovarski@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: OO and Mach
Organization: ZOOiD BBS
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 05:23:31 GMT

pbahrs@netftp.austin.ibm.com (Peter C Bahrs (boca)) writes:
>You may want to Skip this note .... its about jobs.
>
>I did not want to post this to comp.jobs as I don't want to be flooded
>with email.  Sorry...
>
>Interested in ObjectOriented development and OS - Mach Internals/Frameworks?
>Got a Ph.D. or lots of experience?
>
>Send me a note.
>
>
>Greetings,
>
>Thanks for your time,
>Peter
>
>/*--------------- * I X   O p e n   S y s t e m s ---------------------+
>x  Peter C. Bahrs                  pbahrs@netftp.austin.ibm.com        x
>x  IBM Boca Raton                  peterb@bcrvmpc1.vnet.ibm.com        x
>x  Boca Raton, Florida             peterb at bcrvmpc1                  x
>+-------------------- geaux cajuns! ----------------------------------*/

This is not really related to the job, but is this somehow related to
OS/X? What is the current situation with it and what are the plans for
OS/X? When can we expect to see this operating system running?
Thanks....

Mark K
E-Mail: kovarski@zooid.guild.org
From: billc@npg-sd.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM (Bill Canning)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: Unix OO CASE Tools
Keywords: object-oriented,CASE,OOP,Rumbaugh
Date: 10 Nov 92 22:41:08 GMT
Reply-To: billc@npg-sd.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM (Bill Canning)
Organization: NCR Corp., Network Products - San Diego

In article <1992Nov9.190215.7134@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> smogonek@larry.lerc.nasa.gov (Joseph Ogonek) writes:
>The project that I am involved with will include the utilization of OO
>techniques for design and analysis.  I am looking for any CASE tools
>that support the OO notation of Rumbaugh et al.  We would like to use
>these tools on an SGI or Sun platform.
>

You might try a design tool called Paradigm Plus from Protosoft
in Houston, TX. I believe they already have user's at the NASA
space center in Houston whom you could contact for feedback.

Their address is:

Protosoft
17629 El Camino Real, Suite 202
Houston, TX 77058
(713) 480-3233 Voice
(713) 480-6606 FAX

The tool currently supports multiple methodologies (Rumbaugh,
Booch, etc), runs on DOS/Windows and SUN OS, automatic C++ header
file generation, and some reverse engineering capabiities.

Bill Canning
NCR ADE Business Unit
San Diego, CA
Newsgroups: comp.object,comp.software-eng,comp.lang.c++
From: smogonek@larry.lerc.nasa.gov (Joseph Ogonek)
Subject: Unix OO CASE Tools
Followup-To: comp.object
Summary: looking for CASE tool to support Rumbaugh et al. OO notation
Keywords: object-oriented,CASE,OOP,Rumbaugh
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center [Cleveland, Ohio]
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:02:15 GMT

The project that I am involved with will include the utilization of OO
techniques for design and analysis.  I am looking for any CASE tools
that support the OO notation of Rumbaugh et al.  We would like to use
these tools on an SGI or Sun platform.

Please send info to Joe Ogonek at:

	smogonek@larry.lerc.nasa.gov

Thanks
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Ogonek			|     phone: 216-433-4000
NASA Lewis Research Center     	|    
Cleveland, Ohio  44135-3191   	|     email: smogonek@larry.lerc.nasa.gov 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: OO A/D and Class Responsibility Cards (CRC)
Date: 10 Nov 92 01:21:14 GMT
Reply-To: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)
Organization: Do they make a washing powder called Caliban Automatic?

In article <721104711snz@rundart.demon.co.uk> gt@rundart.demon.co.uk writes:
>An implementation in Smalltalk?  Hmm.  A good student project perhaps
>but in practical terms a 5" by 3" card box, a supply of cards, a pencil
>and a rubber (eraser for North American readers) are all that is
>required to make use of this technique.  Advanced practitioners also
>make use of black or white boards together with the appropriate chalk or
>pens.

You use technical terms I don't understand here.  What are "pens"?  I
think I saw one in a museum in London once, it looked like a feather and
it was in a container of black sticky stuff, but I've no idea where to
get hold of one...
  __                                ____
\/ o\ Paul Crowley pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk \  /
/\__/ "I'm the boy without a soul"   \/
From: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: objects and closures
Date: 5 Nov 92 14:51:40 GMT
Reply-To: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)
Organization: Do they make a washing powder called Caliban Automatic?

In article <720937337@sheol.UUCP> throopw@sheol.UUCP (Wayne Throop) writes:
>Well, pursue the analogy.  While is a control flow construct you can
>keep track of in your head.  Why would anybody having a full set of
>sensible control flow constructs want unrestricted goto?
[you sometimes want goto]

I think I'd pretty well always rather use another mechanism which I can
keep in my head.  I've found that avoiding goto usually gives me less
brittle software and a better understanding of the problem and how to
solve it.   I think that behind every use of a closure is an object
that's hiding, and I suspect that by trying to bang your round problem
into the square OO paradigm you'll end up with something more like real
software that people will extend and reuse and write user interfaces to.

I also think I should use "I think" less often and find out what I'm
talking about...
  __                                ____
\/ o\ Paul Crowley pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk \  /
/\__/ "I'm the boy without a soul"   \/
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: baker@westsd.dco.dec.com (Art Baker)
Subject: Re: OO COBOL
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:03:18 GMT

In article <92315.232650BJGLEAS@auvm.american.edu> bj gleason <BJGLEAS@auvm.american.edu> writes:
>Has there been any extensions to COBOL to allow for Objects?  I thought
>that I had heard something about this...

 If there *were* an object-oriented version of COBOL, in keeping 
with the custom established by C and C++, would it be called 
"ADD ONE TO COBOL" ?   ;-}

-- 
	***********************************************************
	* Art Baker			| Joy and fierceness...	  *
	* baker@westsd.dco.dec.com	|  			  *
	***********************************************************
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: hoelzle@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Urs Hoelzle)
Subject: Re: How to obtain snif (or sniff?)
Keywords: snif sniff case oo 
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:36:59 GMT

gjm@bio.vu.nl (Gijs Mos) writes:

>On a seminar somebody told me of a public domain object oriented case tool
>by the name of snif or sniff.
>I tried archie to find the stuff, but to no avail.
>Any pointers?

Sniff is a C++ programming environment, not a CASE tool.  Release 1.6 can be 
obtained via anonymous ftp from the following two locations:

* iamsun.unibe.ch (130.92.64.10) 
  /pub/Sniff1.6 or C++/Sniff1.6 directory

* self.stanford.edu (36.22.0.201 or 36.22.0.41)
  /pub/sniff directory

-Urs
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: dent@DIALix.oz.au (Andrew Dent)
Subject: Re: OO A/D and Class Responsibility Cards (CRC) 
Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Western Australia
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 13:31:26 GMT

CRC cards are also VERY useful in the maintenance of an evolving OO system
as they are a concise summary that can be used to track changing roles of
objects.

I tend to scribble my cards on paper when designing then type them all into
one long text file for doc. However, I just got all excited by the OORASS
article in JOOP Oct/92 and plan on being more formal - use an Excel spreadsheet
to record object roles and the resulting contracts and so have automated 
checklists to verify all designed relationships have been implemented/tested.

Andy Dent (A.D. Software - Mac & VAX programming)
94 Bermuda Dve, BALLAJURA  Western Australia  6066
Phone/Fax: 09 249 2719 (local)  +619 249 2719 (International)
       Internet: dent@DIALix.oz.au    Compuserve: 100033,3241

Newsgroups: comp.object
From: gjm@bio.vu.nl (Gijs Mos)
Subject: How to obtain snif (or sniff?)
Keywords: snif sniff case oo 
Reply-To: gjm@dasc.nl
Organization: VU Biology, Amsterdam, The Netherlands
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 09:59:03 GMT

On a seminar somebody told me of a public domain object oriented case tool
by the name of snif or sniff.
I tried archie to find the stuff, but to no avail.
Any pointers?

Thanks,

Gijs Mos
gjm@dasc.nl
gjm@bio.vu.nl
From: throopw@sheol.UUCP (Wayne Throop)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: objects and closures
Date: 05 Nov 92 01:29:17 GMT

: From: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)
: Message-ID: <Bx5DFt.7z3@dcs.ed.ac.uk>
: I think this is an excellent and thought-provoking analogy.  Objects
: are closures you can keep track of in your head.  This is why I'm not
: clear why you'd want ML-style closures and higher-orderness in an
: object oriented language; it seems contrary to the style of OO
: programming.

Well, pursue the analogy.  While is a control flow construct you can
keep track of in your head.  Why would anybody having a full set of
sensible control flow constructs want unrestricted goto?

The answer is for some of the things goto does well that nice, clean,
nested control flow constructes don't.  Finite state machines.  Error
exit from inner loops.  Algorithms lifted from Knuth.  And so on and so
on.  Now, you *could* use some yacc-like tool to describe FSMs, and
generate efficient code, and you *could* use some structured error
raising mechanism, and so on and on.  But the primitive is *still*
handy to have around.

Specifically, closures can be used for generalized continuation
(such as for error recovery), where you'd be pounding a round
object into a square requirement.

Also, Stephen J Bevan notes another reason why you might want the
primitive around in the language:

: From: bevan@cs.man.ac.uk (Stephen J Bevan)
: Message-ID: <BEVAN.92Nov3182229@hippo.cs.man.ac.uk>
: You could always use a language which has closure(goto) and lets you
: the _user_ add the syntax necessary to represent object(while) when
: and if they want it.  One example of this would be Scheme using its
: (hygenic) macro system.

Yep.  That way, when you wanted a clean error-raising scheme, you
could add it for the local case via goto, and even for the general
case via some throw/catch notion using closures in their guise as
general continuations.
--
Wayne Throop  ...!mcnc!dg-rtp!sheol!throopw
From: bevan@cs.man.ac.uk (Stephen J Bevan)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: objects and closures
Date: 7 Nov 92 12:36:46 GMT
	<720756315@sheol.UUCP> <Bx5DFt.7z3@dcs.ed.ac.uk>
	<BEVAN.92Nov3182229@hippo.cs.man.ac.uk> <720937337@sheol.UUCP>
	<Bx8zy5.4n5@dcs.ed.ac.uk>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester
In-reply-to: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk's message of 5 Nov 92 14:51:40 GMT

In article <Bx8zy5.4n5@dcs.ed.ac.uk> pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley) writes:

   I think that behind every use of a closure is an object that's
   hiding, and I suspect that by trying to bang your round problem
   into the square OO paradigm you'll end up with something more like
   real software that people will extend and reuse and write user
   interfaces to.

I realise that this is comp.object, however I would hope that most
readers are not so partisan as think reuse implies OOP.  There are
many ways to reuse code, inheriting from it is only _one_ method and I
would venture not even the dominant one, even in OOL programs.

bevan
From: podenski@bcsaic.boeing.com (Patrick Podenski)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: Constraint Management / Consistency Checking
Date: 13 Nov 92 23:33:13 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services AI Center, Seattle

In article <2930569391.0.p00058@psilink.com> p00058@psilink.com (Ronald C. Schultz) writes:
>Does anyone have any references as to how to implement constraints or 
>consistency checking within object-oriented systems?  I am interested in 
>financial applications, but examples from CAD, CASE, ... would all be 

Try contacting Alan Borning at Univ of Washington (email: 

  borning@cs.washington.edu

Alan is the author of ThingLab and has also developed algorithms which
are in the public domain.
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: 880445p@dragon.acadiau.ca (Ravi Palepu)
Subject: OO A/D and Class Responsibility Cards (CRC)
Keywords: Object Oriented Analysis Design Class Cards CRC
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:13:09 GMT

I am currently doing my thesis on OO Analysis/Design Techniques.

It is often advised that Class Responsibilty Cards (CRC) could be used  
to help conceptualize the progression from OO Analysis to OO Design. 
(I hope to implement such a tool using SmallTalk_80.)

I'd like to request comments from those who have tried using these
cards (ie. opinions, references, methodologies used).
 
Any  information will be most valuable, Thanks.

-Ravi Palepu
880445p@dragon.acadiau.ca
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:26:50 EST
From: bj gleason <BJGLEAS@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: OO COBOL

Has there been any extensions to COBOL to allow for Objects?  I thought
that I had heard something about this...

thanks,

bj
From: wr@polly.informatik.uni-dortmund.de (Wilfried Rupflin)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: ISE Eiffel rel. 3  --  alternatives?
Date: 13 Nov 1992 08:19:51 GMT
Organization: CS Department, Dortmund University, Germany
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: polly


Does anybody know whether in the new release of ISE Eiffel will
be significant improvements with respect to installation in a
typical workstation environment?

The current release (2.3) requires all Eiffel users to have
*write* access to the *installation* directory! This is not
only nonsense because of security aspects but simply
impossible in an environment where software partitions of
file servers are mounted read-only by their clients.

Will it make sense to wait for the new release
(announced for Sept. 30th)?


Wilfried Rupflin



PS for the impatient:

A few weeks ago a got hands on a *pre*release of the Mjolner
environment for the new (and very powerful) BETA language
for SPARC (final versions for Sun-3, HP 9000, Apollo 3000, and MAC
have been available for some time already). I must say that
I am impressed of the high quality of the implementation.
(Further information: mjolner@mjolner.dk.)
From: fhd@panix.com (Frank Deutschmann)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Apple's Dylan language
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:52:40 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC


While reading through the Apple Dylan manual (_Dylan an Object
Oriented Dynamic Language_ by Apple Eastern Research and Technology),
I came accross the following in the Preface by Ike Nassi:

	Common Lisp is aimed primarily at the Lisp community, while
	Dylan is accessible to application developers unfamiliar with Lisp.
	Common Lisp is oriented more towards exploratory programming with
	delivery capability, while Dylan is oriented more towards delivery
	with exploratory capability.

Given that Dylan has much in common with Scheme (and therefore Lisp),
I was wondering about these two statements; as the Apple book is a
reference manual it merely expounds on the subject of Dylan without
putting it [the language] into the context of other, similar,
languages/developmnet systems.

I would like to open a discussion on the relevant merrits of Dylan
versus Common Lisp (with CLOS), and/or Scheme (but I'm not so familiar
with Scheme) -- to start with, can anyone provide a basis for the
above quoted statements?  Is Ike Nassi essentially saying that Dylan
is a smaller system than Common Lisp/CLOS, and therefore easier to
learn, easier to write better code sooner?  Or is the point to say
that Dylan embodies some fundamental improvement over other Lisp-ish
environments?

Anyone for comp.lang.dylan?





-- 
-frank
(fhd@panix.com)
From: klaus@hal.nta.no (Klaus Gaarder FNI)
Subject: Re: OO A/D and Class Responsibility Cards (CRC)
Organization: Norwegian Telecom Research
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 10:30:13 GMT

In article <BxH7rE.Crt@dcs.ed.ac.uk>, pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley) writes:
|> In article <721104711snz@rundart.demon.co.uk> gt@rundart.demon.co.uk writes:
|> >An implementation in Smalltalk?  Hmm.  A good student project perhaps
|> >but in practical terms a 5" by 3" card box, a supply of cards, a pencil
|> >and a rubber (eraser for North American readers) are all that is
|> >required to make use of this technique.  Advanced practitioners also
|> >make use of black or white boards together with the appropriate chalk or
|> >pens.
|> 
|> You use technical terms I don't understand here.  What are "pens"?  I
|> think I saw one in a museum in London once, it looked like a feather and
|> it was in a container of black sticky stuff, but I've no idea where to
|> get hold of one...
|>   __                                ____
|> \/ o\ Paul Crowley pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk \  /
|> /\__/ "I'm the boy without a soul"   \/

Poor soul, think a keyboard is the ultimate writing device??
Heard about "Newton" (Apple guy), wonder how many M$ went into that scribble
pad...paper and pencil certainly seems cheaper (and better).

Being serious I would throw in a word for OORASS, ref JOOP "some-issue" 92.
CRC cards I understand as basically aiding the creative process, hence paper an
pencil is hi-tech here!
-- 
    __o   
  _`\<,_                               s
 (*)/ (*) Claudio Caputti expressing hi  (oops!) very own views!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++^++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Free will - the result of chaotic amplification of quantum events in the brain.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------