From: brunner@practic.com (Thomas Eric Brunner)
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,alt.child-support,alt.dads-rights
Subject: It isn't slavery
Date: 13 Aug 92 13:50:43 GMT
Reply-To: brunner@practic.UUCP (Thomas Eric Brunner)
Distribution: na
Organization: Practical Computing Inc., Sunnyvale

I wrote in reply to mike@fionn.lbl.gov that what ever his/her personal
feelings about paying a support award, that it wasn't slavery. In fact,
I couldn't believe that a US national or resident alien could be so
removed from the collective memory of the Civil War/War Between the
States.

Mike replied:
> Sez you.  It ("Forcing..") certainly resembles indentured servitude,
> a form of slavery practiced in the 18th & earlier centuries here in
> America.  It resembles the burden women were forced to bear before
> their citizenship & legal rights were made equal with men's.

I like the "Sez you" refutation, which is the most compelling part of
his post. Indentured servitude was a contractual relationship which
pre-existed wide-spread secondary education. Like all institutions,
bad people made bad use of it, but it was the end of the guild system,
and to lump apprentice-status with slave-status is, well, creative.

As for "the burden women were forced to bear" being so likend, well,
not to many women living during the period of the legal existance of
slavery have left written statements to this effect. Granted, they
have left statements critical of the institutional and personal
flaws of their time and lifes, but contemporaries of Hariet Becher
Stowe's did not lift pages out her work.

Mike then went on to write in the same post:
>                                                               If you
> don't want to call these slavery, fine, but I think you're confining
> the definition to an unnecessarily small subset of what many people
> would call slavery.  We will have a hard time communicating with you,
> since we're divided by the same language.

This is a plea to let the word mean something other than what it means
in law. The word has been a rather important word for our recent
european- and african-originated predecessors, but there is nothing
one can do to prevent a person from being ignorant of that importance.

A reminder, each and every one of the "I shouldn't have to pay" posters
are encouraged by your narator to divert a large portion of their income
to the vigerous litigation of their position. Business is down even in
the legal trade, and one man's windmill tilting funds another's pro bono
work, so those dollars won't be completely wasted.

Finally, not being able to communicate with all the soc.* dingbats and
crockpots is a blessing, not a curse. The bigest problem with a.c-s
before soc.* discovered it was BobK's "don't criticise social workers"
fixation, and the periodic crock by jcr@milton.u.washington.edu, and
the idiotic "tick tock" trailers-as-messages by a person who apparently
needs to be net-noticed. That was quite a bit preferable this flood of
opinionated drivel (since 3 August).

899:From: drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux)
900:From: jcr@milton.u.washington.edu (Mr. EuStress)
901:From: gazit@duke.cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit)
902:From: perez@mgr.hjf.org (Charles Perez)
903:From: mike@frey.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
904:From: holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman)
905:From: turner@reed.edu (sailing to reach the following day)
906:From: wreck@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com (R. Cage)
907:From: wreck@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com (R. Cage)
908:From: wreck@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com (R. Cage)
909:From: wreck@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com (R. Cage)
910:From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
911:From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
912:From: vixie@pa.dec.com (Paul A Vixie)
913:From: vixie@pa.dec.com (Paul A Vixie)
914:From: JLB155@psuvm.psu.edu (Jennifer Brown)
915:From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
916:From: JLB155@psuvm.psu.edu (Jennifer Brown)
917:From: donald@ilx105 (Rich Donald)
918:From: donald@ilx105 (Rich Donald)
919:From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
920:From: Mic.Oettinger@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Mic Oettinger)
921:From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
922:From: slarsen@berlin.helios.nd.edu (susan larsen)
923:From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
924:From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
925:From: johne@vcd.hp.com (John Eaton)
926:From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
927:From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick   )
928:From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick   )
929:From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick   )
930:From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
931:From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
932:From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick   )
933:From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick   )
934:From: baba@Tymnet.com (Duane Hentrich)
935:From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
936:From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
937:From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
938:From: arothman@eve.wright.edu (Aric C. Rothman)
939:From: gazit@duke.cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit)
940:From: jcr@milton.u.washington.edu (Mr. EuStress)
941:From: jcr@milton.u.washington.edu (Mr. EuStress)
942:From: wreck@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com (R. Cage)
943:From: holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman)
944:From: jcr@milton.u.washington.edu (Mr. EuStress)
945:From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick   )
946:From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick   )
947:From: jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer)
948:From: JLB155@psuvm.psu.edu (Jennifer Brown)
949:From: JLB155@psuvm.psu.edu (Jennifer Brown)
950:From: JLB155@psuvm.psu.edu (Jennifer Brown)
951:From: Mic.Oettinger@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Mic Oettinger)
952:From: vixie@pa.dec.com (Paul A Vixie)
953:From: vixie@pa.dec.com (Paul A Vixie)
954:From: jcr@milton.u.washington.edu (Mr. EuStress)
955:From: jcr@milton.u.washington.edu (Mr. EuStress)
956:From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
957:From: mike@shemesh.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
958:From: slarsen@titian.helios.nd.edu (susan larsen)
959:From: fedrick@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Kelvin W. Fedrick)
960:From: smccabe@author.ecn.purdue.edu (Sarah A McCabe)
961:From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
962:From: baba@samadhi.Tymnet.COM (Duane Hentrich)
963:From: gazit@duke.cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit)
964:From: gazit@duke.cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit)
965:From: slarsen@titian.helios.nd.edu (susan larsen)
966:From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick   )
967:From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
968:From: wreck@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com (R. Cage)
969:From: jcr@milton.u.washington.edu (Mr. EuStress)
970:From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
971:From: baba@samadhi.Tymnet.COM (Duane Hentrich)
972:From: holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman)
973:From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick   )
974:From: mike@inti.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
975:From: mike@inti.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
976:From: mike@inti.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
977:From: mike@inti.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
978:From: mike@inti.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
979:From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
980:From: harkcom@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Alton Harkcom)
981:From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick   )
982:From: jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer)
983:From: kevin@cfctech.cfc.com (Kevin Darcy)
984:From: kevin@cfctech.cfc.com (Kevin Darcy)
985:From: weverka@spot.Colorado.EDU (Robert T. Weverka)
986:From: mba@controls.ccd.harris.com (Belinda Asbell)
987:From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
988:From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
989:From: M20614@mwvm.mitre.org (Hugh Pritchard)
990:From: gsh7w@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Hennessy)
991:From: dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dave Eisen)
992:From: gazit@duke.cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit)
993:From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
994:From: kam@hpcvxkm.cv.hp.com (Keith Marchington)
995:From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
996:From: gsh7w@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Hennessy)
997:From: gsh7w@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Hennessy)
998:From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
999:From: M20614@mwvm.mitre.org (Hugh Pritchard)
1000:From: fedrick@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Kelvin W. Fedrick)
1001:From: fedrick@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Kelvin W. Fedrick)
1002:From: fedrick@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Kelvin W. Fedrick)
1003:From: wreck@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com (R. Cage)
1004:From: wreck@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com (R. Cage)
1005:From: wreck@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com (R. Cage)
1006:From: wreck@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com (R. Cage)
1007:From: ccalbrec@nyx.cs.du.edu (Cory Albrecht)
1008:From: gsh7w@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Hennessy)
1009:From: gsh7w@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Hennessy)
1010:From: wreck@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com (R. Cage)
1011:From: kam@hpcvxkm.cv.hp.com (Keith Marchington)
1012:From: jrr@nsc.nsc.com (Jerry Roe)
1013:From: dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dave Eisen)
1014:From: jcr@milton.u.washington.edu (Mr. EuStress)
1015:From: alyoung@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu (Amy Young Leith)
1016:From: dave@silver.sni.ca (Dave Till)
1017:From: jcr@milton.u.washington.edu (Mr. EuStress)
1018:From: jcr@milton.u.washington.edu (Mr. EuStress)
1019:From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick   )
1020:From: alyoung@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu (Amy Young Leith)
1021:From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
1022:From: tjehl@sedona.intel.Com (Timothy Jehl)
1023:From: harkcom@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Alton Harkcom)
1024:From: alyoung@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu (Amy Young Leith)
1025:From: dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dave Eisen)
1026:From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
1027:From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
1028:From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
1029:From: gsh7w@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Hennessy)
1030:From: ssmith@xocolatl.com (Shannon Smith)
1031:From: harkcom@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Alton Harkcom)
1032:From: fedrick@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Kelvin W. Fedrick)
1033:From: fedrick@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Kelvin W. Fedrick)
1034:From: tjc50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Terry Carroll)
1035:From: wreck@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com (R. Cage)
1036:From: ENVIRON@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Brett Rogers)
1037:From: gazit@duke.cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit)
1038:From: gazit@duke.cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit)
1039:From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick   )
1040:From: shedevil@vix.com (Anne P. Mitchell JD)
1041:From: M20614@mwvm.mitre.org (Hugh Pritchard)
1042:From: kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy)
1043:From: jim@jimmc.chi.il.us (Jim McNicholas)
1044:From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
1045:From: jcr@milton.u.washington.edu (Mr. EuStress)
1046:From: jcr@milton.u.washington.edu (Mr. EuStress)
1047:From: holzman@fnalna.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman)
1048:From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
1049:From: wreck@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com (R. Cage)
1050:From: tjehl@sedona.intel.Com (Timothy Jehl)
1051:From: wreck@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com (R. Cage)
1052:From: dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dave Eisen)
1053:From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick   )
1054:From: jbrown@milton.u.washington.edu (Jeffery Brown)
1055:From: jcr@milton.u.washington.edu (Mr. EuStress)
1056:From: dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dave Eisen)
1057:From: jcr@milton.u.washington.edu (Mr. EuStress)
1058:From: dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dave Eisen)
1059:From: rat@erg.sri.com (Ray Trent)
1060:From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
1061:From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
1062:From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
1063:From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
1064:From: kevin@cfctech.cfc.com (Kevin Darcy)
1065:From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick   )
1066:From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick   )
1067:From: kevin@cfctech.cfc.com (Kevin Darcy)
1068:From: kevin@cfctech.cfc.com (Kevin Darcy)
1069:From: kevin@cfctech.cfc.com (Kevin Darcy)
1070:From: slkg9733@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steven L. Kellmeyer)
1071:From: slkg9733@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steven L. Kellmeyer)
1072:From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick   )
1073:From: jcr@milton.u.washington.edu (Mr. EuStress)
1074:From: jcr@milton.u.washington.edu (Mr. EuStress)
1075:From: kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy)
1076:From: jcr@milton.u.washington.edu (Mr. EuStress)
1077:From: kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy)
1078:From: kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy)
1079:From: kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy)
1080:From: gazit@duke.cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit)
1081:From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick   )
1082:From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick   )
1083:From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
1084:From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
1085:From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
1086:From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
1087:From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
1088:From: goid@zooid.guild.org (Will Steeves)
1089:From: goid@zooid.guild.org (Will Steeves)
1090:From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick   )
1091:From: noraa@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (aaron.l.hoffmeyer)
1092:From: vixie@pa.dec.com (Paul A Vixie)
1093:From: vixie@pa.dec.com (Paul A Vixie)
1094:From: vixie@pa.dec.com (Paul A Vixie)
1095:From: vixie@pa.dec.com (Paul A Vixie)
1096:From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
1097:From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
1098:From: gazit@duke.cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit)
1099:From: fxsdb@acad3.alaska.edu (Scott D. Berry)
1100:From: falk@rembrandt.Sun.COM (Ed Falk)
-- 
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
Eric Brunner 4bsd/RT Project
inet: brunner@monet.berkeley.edu		uucp: uunet!practic!brunner
trying to understand multiprocessing is like having bees live inside your head.