From: kindred@telesciences.com (David L Kindred (Dave))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 7.62NATO @ 1000yds
Date: 22 Aug 92 14:54:53 GMT
Organization: Telesciences CO Systems, Inc.

In article <9AUG199214054125@venus.lerc.nasa.gov> smpod@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan) writes:

   bww@hpqtdlm.sqf.hp.com (Brian Woodroffe) writes...
   #Well I tried 15shots @1000yds last weekend. I used 'out-of-the-box',
   #'as-issued' RG-92; ie NATO standard sniper ammunition (146grain bullet)
   #manufactured by the UK supplier Radway-Green. How did it go? Well I had 4
   #shots that I pushed over to the top of the 20" bull, and the rest were
   #beautiful water line shots.

   What do you mean by 'water line shots'?
ditto.

   #1/ What size target do you get? We use 10feet wide by 6feet tall paper,
   #with a 36" aiming mark?

   6 foot square with a 45" aiming mark; 10" X-ring and 20" 10-ring.

   #2/ What sights do you use? Is it only telescopes? We (British) have to use
   #iron sights.

   There are iron and any-sights categories.

   #3/ If iron sights, what sized ring do you use? I use 2.7mm.

   Matter of preference and lighting conditions; I use 2.8-3.4mm

I don't know at the moment what size I ended up using this year at
Camp Perry, but I ended up fairly small at the rear sight (adjustable)
and LARGE at the front sight.  The lighting was so bad early in the
morning that I couldn't distinguish the various parts of the target
from each other.  It looked liked a gray blob with a slightly darker
gray blob in the center.  On the advice of a more experienced long
range shooter, I went with a front aperature that let me center the
whole target rather than just the aiming black.

   #4/ What length of barrel is used? We (brits) tend to use 28" or 30"

   similar lengths used

   #5/ BTW what restrictions on the rifle do your rules place? Our rifles have
   #to conform (loosely) to the UIT standard rifle; ie <5.5kg.

   I don't think that there are weight limitations.

Also, at least the National Matches have both Service Rifle and Any
Rifle categories for 1000 yd matches.  The Service Rifle category
allows for the M1, M14, and M16 rifles and their civilian
counterparts.  These rifles compete with the standard military sights
(although some military rifles have some modifications made to the
height of the sights with respect to the barrel, to keep the rear
sight from being too high above the stock and receiver).  These rifles
must still shoot their original cartridges (the M1 is allowed to be
re-chambered in .308, since the US Navy did issue some in that
configuration), but there are no rules restrictions on bullet/powder
selection.  The Gas System in the M1 and M14 preclude use of the
heavier bullets and hotter loads however.  The M1 and M14 will shoot
the 180 grain bullets, but not the 190 and heavier bullets that are
popular with the Bolt Gun Shooters.  No one even tries to use the 147
grain Military ball ammo for that range.  The 168 grain Match Ammo is
also a poor choice, as the bullets do not remain supersonic.  The 173
grain "Special Ball" Ammo is satisfactory for average shooters.

The Any Rifle category is just that, any safe rifle (with the
capability of hitting the 1000yd target) is allowed.  A lot of belted
magnums are seen on the line (.300 Win and .30/.338), along with
standard .308 and .30-06.  The 6mm and 7mm magnum and near-magnum
cartridges are becoming more popular, particularly with the new heavier
Very Low Drag (VLD) bullets.  The .223 (5.56 NATO) is capable of
hitting the 1000 yd target with the 80 grain VLD bullets now on the
market.  Yes, people were shooting them at Camp Perry this year.

An interesting twist to the heavy bullet syndrome is the new 155 grain
bullet produced by Sierra for the International Palma Match (which is
either in progress or about to start in New Mexico).  These are a VLD
type design, and apparently work quite well at the longer ranges
(better than the popular 168 grain bullet according to some experts).
These lighter bullets were affected more by the wind, which is to be
expected. 

Well, enough for now.  If anyone wants to continue a discussion on
Long Range Shooting, please let me know.  I'd be especially interested
to hear from anyone else who was at Perry this year, or anyone that
made it to New Mexico for the Palma Matches.
                                                        - Dave

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