HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: boserj@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser)
Subject: Re: Purity
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 08:36:49 GMT

Graydon <SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>[the rest of Jeff's post sent elsewhere]
>
>Words are the hands of the mind.
>
>To expand upon that a little, if you don't have a word for it, things
>can be hard to think about.  Or, worse, if the conotations that a word
>you are given don't fit you.  I certainly don't feel suffused with the
>standard social consensus spirit of manliness, for instance, even if
>I am one. (Once, during an intimate moment, someone told me I was 'such
>a man'.  It was meant as a compliment; I still can't hear it except as
>very sarcastic, at best, because I know damn well I'm not.)
>
>Sexuality (which is very personal) is presently very tied up with
>issues of social conformity and group identity axioms.  If labels
>can be created that refer to sexual preferences but *don't*
>connect to those axioms, the problem in large measure goes away.
>(Theoretically; so far as I know, this has never happened.)
>
>Graydon

yeah, roy brought that up to.  I can understand the need to talk
about these things, but what I find so uncomfortable are all the
expectations and connotations that are draped over labels that are
so inaccurate to begin with.

I started masturbating when I was about 4, in the pool.  and ever
since then how I see myself sexually has undergone some massive
revisions.  there is no guarentee that ill be the same even a year
from now, with the same desires.  I may be bi now, but I may not
always be, and I get a little irked sometimes when discussing
how I feel sexually.

For example, I have been in conversations more than once about
'what' i was..  and get asked the same questions, like have i
ever been attracted to a man in my life, that sort of thing.  and
then the person will give me a label, and i thank them and
we can get on with our conversation.

Its like Im being issued a name tag for that person.  To fit
in their catagory.  Even if it is one that isnt that hard to
wear, I find it uncomfortable.

And I dont see it as being all that necessary, I have had relationships
where common understanding was based on physics that were longer
and more understanding.

I can understand how catagorizing is important, I do it myself.
But I dont understand why sexual catagories have to have all the
extra baggage.  If I know someone is a physisist, I dont assume
he doesnt play basketball too, so why should I assume that a
sexual label is so intrinsic (sp?) to a person that it is all
he or she is?  And I see this ALL the time.

I think we need some more words, to describe the relationships
that people prefer and practice better.

<smirk>

guess Im ranting and raving again.  ok, Im asking for help..
is there any thing that can help me clarify these issues
in my mind?  or do I have to solve this one on my own?

....jeff

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver)
Subject: Re: Missing the UK (was:  Introduction, or De-Muffining)
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 93 09:11:11 GMT

 pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary) writes:

>I wanna go back.  I wanna go back.  I wanna go to Dave's party in
>Cambridge, and I have no money to do so.  <mope mope mope>
>Not even Ciaran making up wild stories about me robbing banks
>at "vibrator-point" can change financial realities right now. <sigh>

Now why can't we steal a neato idea from fandom and have a TAFF fund? Of course,
rather than TransAtlantic Fan Fund it would need to be TransAtlantic Fluffiness
Fund... but I *know* there were a number of people at the Edinburgh party who
would have liked to have had more time to talk to Ellen...

>I miss you all very much.  (It has been awhile since July huh?.)

It most certainly has.

>(Who hasn't stooped to doing sexual favors in trade for a UK plane 
> ticket....yet.)

Now *there's* an idea. And here was me, saving earnings from a new contract,
giving my name to courier firms, and begging my brother for his spouse/partner
tickets to New York...

Tanaqui, who doesn't recognise "altruism"

"Infinite output and infinite in-  
 So where did infinity all begin?
 At the very same place that infinity ends
 In the conscious minds and dreams of shamen"            _The Shamen_
From: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Het males & bi-femmes
Date: 30 Dec 92 21:30:11 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <85883@ut-emx.uucp> robear@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Jay Michael) writes:

->	   ____________     ____________
->	F <____________> M <____________> F          (polyamorous male)
->
->	I'm not going to say much about this because 1) It's not really bi-
->related, and 2) It would seem the females are getting the shaft.

Pardon me? I have something of this arrangement, and I fail to see why the
females are getting the shaft here.  What exactly is wrong with it?


->	Do het fems think of an inverted triangle?  Methinks most likely,
->not, and I wonder if it is because of the nature of feminity, cultural
->upbringing residual effects, other?

As I said in another article, quite a few hetfems do think of the M-F-M
triangle also.  At least, quite a few hetfems that I've met.

-roy


-- 
Roy S. Rapoport     internet: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu      bitnet: rsrsoda@ucbocf
anonymous mail: wi.5836@n7kbt.rain.com        androphile, gynophile, kerryphile
"What I used to think is me / is just a faded memory." -NIN
DISCLAIMER:  I speak for the University of California at Berkeley.  Rrrright.
Newsgroups: soc.bi,alt.cascade
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: Selective Memory?
Organization: People's Front of Judea
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:45:24 GMT

In article <BP.92Dec21155023@swamp.cs.brown.edu> bp@cs.brown.edu (Boris Putanec) writes:
>In article <29779@castle.ed.ac.uk> angi@castle.ed.ac.uk (Angi Lamb) writes:
>  sara@festival.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing) writes:
>  |gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
>  |>dbshapco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Brad Shapcott) writes:
>  |>:evidence, and to the flip ego posturing dominating many posts.  Well,
>  |>:the first thing I would like to know is, am I the only one that feels this?
>  |>No.
>  |And neither is he.
>  Ditto
>Seconded.
Same here.
-- 
Andrew Solovay    
                "I know that, in America and under capitalism,
                 I am the freest woman in history."
                                --- Camille Paglia
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Lurkers
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 02:06:37 +0000

	From: sthor@ctp.com (Sarah Thornburg)

	I haven't yet gotten any requests for hot sex, email or otherwise, from
	unknowns, but have gotten requests on how to go about posting for such.

No, I will not do it!  I will not I say!  It's just *too* easy!  Like
taking candy from a <babe>.

G
From: j_babylo@oz.plymouth.edu (Jessica L. Babylon)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Purity
Summary: Lost Ex-Muffin
Date: 3 Jan 93 18:22:15 GMT
Followup-To: j_babylo@oz.plymouth.edu
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, NH.

*HUGS HUGS AND MORE HUGS*
i did demuffin once, a while back, but i've been gone for a while, not
even lurking, so i feel like i'm missing a few hugs here and there and
i figure i'll get as good as i give so...*grin*

- The Goddess
Xref: sparky soc.bi:17213 soc.motss:53515
From: owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
Subject: Re: Liberty (was something relevant about CO-2 long ago...)
Date: 22 Dec 92 21:06:36 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <92356.182129SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>, SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Graydon) writes:
> In article <1992Dec21.175438.20068@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
> (ryerson.schwark) says:
> >Really? Do you think that people stopped using the word 'nigger' because
> >they were carefully marketed to?  I don't think so.
 
> People have stopped using the word 'nigger'?  Stopped printing it,
> mostly, and not in prime time, but ....

Tell you what.
Ride the 24 Divisadero bus, or the 22 Fillmore bus in San Francisco,
and you'll here it plenty. 

> I suspect the thing that's going to get the gender neutral pronouns
> in place for part of the population is that all the serious scholarly
> english style guides are now gender neutral or getting there.  This
> will get all the primary school teachers, who will get the kids who
> end up literate.  (The kids who don't end up literate have a much
> larger problem than their language use!)

Language will reflect gender neutrality, when society is gender neutral.

There will probably always be some gender identification in language
since there are differences between the genders, and we will need some
sort of construct to communicate those differences.

It seems to me that the reason  that there are problems around the issue
of gender identified pronouns is that our society makes value judgements
based on those differences.

For example Clinton pointed out that playing numbers games and setting
quotas for cabinet appointments based on gender devalues the individuals
who have been chosen so far, and relegates them to tokens in a numbers game.
It also shows that those who are focusing on the tokenism of the past
and extending it into the future by thinking in *quotas* are perpetuating
the social construct that there are value differences based on gender.


LUX ./. owen
--
D. Owen Rowley {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen

  " It will be a cold March 17th that I celebrate the imposition of
	Romes rule, on Pagan Ireland. Erin go ppphhhhhttttttt! "
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: borah@cs.cornell.edu (Vicki Borah)
Subject: Re: My first Hug Request :)
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:45:46 GMT

In article <1h4t1tINNedj@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>Considering the problems I've had posting this, it's becoming fairly
>ridiculous.  I suspect that calling it "Hug Request" made it seem like
>earlier threads with the same topic, so I changed the name, cancelled the
>post, and tried again ... *sigh* ... as thousands of people get pissed at me
>for seeing something they already saw ...
>
>Anyway ... I can't/won't go into details right now ... But ...
>
>May I be hugged please?
>
>-roy
>
>-- 
>Roy S. Rapoport     internet: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu      bitnet: rsrsoda@ucbocf
>anonymous mail: wi.5836@n7kbt.rain.com        androphile, gynophile, kerryphile
>"What I used to think is me / is just a faded memory." -NIN
>DISCLAIMER:  I speak for the University of California at Berkeley.  Rrrright.
*hug* *hug* *hug* *big old hug*

Hope you feel better, Roy. 

Snuggles, 
Vicki
From: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Purity
Date: 2 Jan 1993 01:14:56 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center and Reptile Farm
NNTP-Posting-Host: grissom.larc.nasa.gov

In article <1993Jan1.014238.17022@netcom.com>, boserj@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser)
>
>A few days ago, driving roy to the campus (Hi roy!  I want another hug!)
>we got into a conversation about bi and how it is resented by 'purists'.
>Lesbians who think that a woman who sleeps with a man is sleeping with
>the 'enemy'.  At the time I got tiffed at being considered an enemy,
>but I have been thinking about this alot the past few days.

I want a T-shirt that reads "THERE IS NO ENEMY."
--scott
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: d000dlphi@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (David Speakman)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
Subject: _Details_ magazine (was: Giddyness)
Date: 25 Dec 92 01:09:52 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

In article <1hdbdnINN9s@agate.berkeley.edu>, mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd) writes:

>        -- Leonard Cohen, "Democracy", from "The Future"
>           (without permission in any way, shape or form)
> 
> You heard it here first.  I'd extend my yuletide sillyness to a full
> quote of the song, but I've other things to be getting on with.  Perhaps
> the above will suffice.

Gosh, EXACTLY that much of the song appears in the Jan 1993 issues of
_Details_ magazine.    Love my _Deatials_ -- it's a very gay-postitive
magazine. In fact, I'd argue that it purposely goes out of its way to
accomodate LGBO readers.

Maybe that's why you didn't print the rest.

David Speakman 

Visualize Whirled Peas!
                        
__________________________________________________________
---\  "Faster     \\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//     Ombudsperson,  
----\  than a     //\\/00daseakman@leo.bsu.edu//\\//\\//\\     _Daily_News_     
----/\  speeding  \\//\d000dlphi@leo.bsu.edu//\\//\\//\\//   Muncie, IN 47306
---/  \  lambda"  //\\/hocake@bsu-cs.bsu.edu\\//\\//\\//\\   "Hurray for the
------------------\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//   liberal media!"
                                                                           
Xref: sparky soc.bi:17156 soc.men:21640 soc.women:21800
From: aep@world.std.com (Andrew E Page)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.men,soc.women
Subject: Re: Seperatists etc.
Date: 22 Dec 92 13:28:28 GMT
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA



   I find it highly unlikely that in these tighter economic times that
anyone who is trying to form any kind of a business would be so
ignorant as to exclude anyone, regardless of gender, who might make
any kind of contribution.
   My point being this...  yes there is possibly exclusion in some
places at the startup level, but they are probably not worth dealing
with.
   From having taken several attempts at starting companies I can tell
you for a fact, that I would not turn away a woman who knew anything
about the technology or business issues relating to the company's
goals, and who had enough drive and energy to pull it along with me.
I find that there are just too few people, especially those with the
technical backgrounds I've needed, who are willing to put in the
effort necessary to make an effort work.  To limit one's scope of
associates based on gender, race, or creed is not only stupid, it's
economic suicide.

-- 
Andrew E. Page   (Warrior Poet) |   Decision and Effort The Archer and Arrow
Mac Consultant                  |     The difference between what we are
Macintosh and DSP Technology    |           and what we want to be.
Xref: sparky soc.bi:17063 soc.motss:53270
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
Subject: Rouilard, Sharon Stone (Re: Liberty (was something relevant about ))
Date: 21 Dec 92 17:57:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec21.175753.4945
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <BzM6Az.1IKM@austin.ibm.com> alan@auntbea.austin.ibm.com (Alan R. Weiss) writes:
>In article <1gtgv0INN98f@agate.berkeley.edu> mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd) writes:
>>alan@auntbea.austin.ibm.com (Alan R. Weiss) writes:
>>>eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (Piglet) writes:
>>>>Now, I say that language works for us, not we for it.  It's time
>>>>there was a neutral pronoun in English.  Along with a neutral

...

>>>>reference to "man" in the sense of "mankind", and so on.  All
>Hmmmmm ... well, as a certified newsgroup hopper (tm), I've noticed
>that this is about the only "space" where hugs are thrown about
>with reckless abandon.  Although I'm reasonably straight, (maybe
>a Kinsey 1.5, although in Basic Instinct I fantasized that *I* was
>Sharon Stone :-)  Talk about gender-benders!), I am one of those bi-friendly
>people who muffin around a little, feeding off the crumbs of
>information in cyberspace.
>
>Speaking of Sharon Stone, does anyone have any comments on herm?
>Other than the notion that, "gee, I'd like to have her" (which
>is so patently obvious as to be beyond discussion :-)

The French  magazine "genereu-X" published her telephone number
in the last issue I bought. Haven't called her yet.

I did finally get a hold of Richard Rouilard, ex- Editor-in-Chief of
the Advocate. He is now working at the Los Angeles Times Magazine. I
was speaking to him of other matters, but I did ask about leaving the
Advocate, which he said was because of personal differences with the
publishers ("Liberation Publication"), and that it was 'time to move
up'. I didn't have the heart to ask him how moving from the Herald
Tribune magazine section to Editor-in-Chief of the Advocate to the LA
Times Magazine was 'moving up'...
-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
Xref: sparky soc.bi:17162 soc.motss:53433
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
Subject: Re: Liberty (was something relevant about CO-2 long ago...)
Date: 22 Dec 92 12:48:37 GMT
Organization: Eris's Restaurant

In article <BznGFH.KBq@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>Assuming for the moment that Andrea Dworkin's suggestions are
>clueless, inappropriate, and nonsensical (and it's been my experience
>that feminists who are perceived to be such are usually maligned by a
>hysterical, incredibly myopic media) it wouldn't invalidate my quote.
>
>>Do they teach you the fine art of
>>putdown's at Amherst?
>
>They teach us something about grammar, at least.

Tim, Tim; glass houses, dear friend.  "A hysterical... media"?

				Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Subject: Re: Understanding
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 14:42:01 GMT

In <92357.110706SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Graydon) writes:
>[offers some tactical advice]
>the word 'feminist' tends to make most men defensive. [...]
>There's a certain element of the male experience of feminist philosphy
>that goes 'this is going to tell me I'm deficent in painful detail - ack!';

I find this interesting because it suggests that the men who view
feminism in this light think of feminism as being anti-male, as
distinct from it being anti-patriarchy. Indeed, some of the threads
here recently mentioned this distinction and the confusion over it.

I think an interesting parallel to this is the way sometimes the "moral
majority" somehow think (or at least proclaim) that the GLB movements
are anti-heterosexual as opposed to them being anti-heterosexist. This
idea crops up fairly often in the guise of "gays are trying to recruit
our children" (which, of course, also plays upon the "gays are child
molestors" stereotype) and also as "gays will destroy the institution
of marriage" (presumably by "recruiting" straight folk who otherwise
might have gotten married).

Two questions spring to mind about this:

1. Does anybody have further examples of non-X folk thinking that X-folk
are anti-(non-X), e.g., gays are against heterosexuality, feminism is
anti-male, blacks are anti-white? (I am wondering how widespread this
idea might be.)

2. Does anybody have any ideas about why such notions exist? Is it a
result of poor communication resulting in fundamental misunderstandings?
Or is it that the bigots are spreading misinformation to create fear of
change?


Ciaran.
-- 
---- Ciaran McHale (cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie)
\bi/ Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.
 \/  Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-6772204
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: iwatters@cix.compulink.co.uk (Ian Watters)
Subject: Re: Attack of the Seperatists (was Re: R
Reply-To: iwatters@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 22:49:00 +0000

> And what does Cerebus say?

Cerebus say very little.  Slowly.  With many...  Pauses.

Except when writing memoirs, when Cerebus say great deal.

  //\/\/  iwatters@cix.compulink.co.uk , still kicking himself for missing
          Dave Sim when he came to Coventry a couple of years ago.

>>>MATRIX version  1.21e
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: alan@auntbea.austin.ibm.com (Alan R. Weiss)
Subject: Re: Understanding
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 14:49:23 GMT
Organization: (speaking only for myself from Austin, Texas)

In article <ZEN.92Dec23155337@death.corp.sun.com> zen@death.corp.sun.com (d) writes:
>
>> I can't imagine why someone could EVER be "for" less choice.
>
>  Don't hang around talk.abortion then, do ya?
>
> -- d

Er, no.  Good point, though.  I *like* choice.

arw
-- 
   _  Alan R. Weiss   IBM AWS Austin-AIX Kernel   11501 Burnet Rd, Bld 905
 _| ~-. alan%auntbea.austin.ibm.com@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com | Austin, TX 78758
 \, *_} auntbea.austin.ibm.com!alan@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com | 512-838-8281
   \(   DISCLAIMER:  Working at, not speaking for, IBM  | alan@auntbea
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver)
Subject: Extremely boring META thread  
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 93 05:49:17 GMT

Powers, Roy, was a dictionary definition of everything d called you, complete
with rebuttals and sarcastic stuff on spelling really necessary?

And if so, you could have crossposted it to alt.usage.english, and let them
join in all our merry mud-slinging |-(

Right. I'm not going to comment on feminism, and be redirected to alt.feminism,
though what I'm going to say is probably extremely tedious and should be
dumped in alt.newsgroups.meta, if it only existed.

It's about newsgroups, you see. This group used to consist of lots of fluffy
bi-people swapping flirts and self-congratulation. Then a few serious issues
erupted, a few feathers got ruffled, and it wasn't quite so "nice" any more.
Now STella's conception of a cocktail party, where people drop in and out and
chat, a metaphor which I find quite appealing, is obviously not a common idea.

Everything seems to have become entirely too concerned in here. Now, I like a
dose of serious fodder along with my cotton candy, but everyone seems to be
paranoid about how they are being perceived nowadays. Lighten up, ferchrissakes.

Back to the party: are those little cabbalistic conversations the stuff of
email? The people in the garden, are they people interacting outside the Net,
and are the people in the other rooms people elsewhere on it?

Tanaqui, returning you to your regularly scheduled argument.

"The rustling of the silk is discontinued: Dust drifts over the courtyard,
 There is no sound of footfall, and the leaves  Scurry into heaps & lie still
 And she the rejoicer of the heart is beneath them

 A wet leaf that clings to the threshold"                            LIU CH'E
  
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: Imitating Turing (was: Liberty (was: (never mind)))
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:36:55 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.171758.16349@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> mudge@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (MUDGE BRIAN WAYNE) writes:
>In article <1992Dec22.160317.2518@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> arodgers@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Angus H Rodgers) writes:
>>In <Bznvz6.Grt@cck.coventry.ac.uk>
>>idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
[Turing]
>>>Gus, why on earth would anyone want to be a sociopathic chess-player
>>>who worked for the Government?
>  Sociopathic?  Ok, he was arrested/convicted on six counts of "gross
>indecency", but having sex with a 19 year old is hardly sociopathic
>by today's standards.

No, no, Bri, I wasn't talking about his sexuality, but the difficulty
he had in dealing with people socially.

				Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.bi