HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ali@babar.inria.fr (Ali Atie)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: About vain words and music
Date: 23 Jul 92 11:11:48 GMT
Organization: Koala Project, Bull Research France

I'd like to repeat what i've said in order 
to avoid any misunderstanding:

In a previous posting, i said:
"a song for the islamic cause is not vain words, so it is allowed.
 In addition, anything that takes you away from the right path and
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 leads you to lose your conscience (even for a little time) is an evil 
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 work, so you should avoid it. This is the case of music that challenge you to
                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 dance. Instead, the classical music is allowed and it could be indeed 
 ^^^^^
 a remedy for nervousness."



I did not say that ANY kind of music is Haram. Thus, i agree
with sister Sandra that music by Mozart (classical music) and 
folk-singing of Palestine (which are not vain words) are not haramful. 
So, we should stick to what is mentioned in the Qur'an rather than
to the opinion of Sheikh Qaradawi or others. Remind you of Qaradawi
allowing eating Meetah (meat of an animal which died by itself),
while Allah(SWT) said what could be translated to:
     "Forbidden to you is that which dies of itself, and blood, and
      flesh of swine, and that on which any other name than that of
      Allah has been invoked, ..." (5:3)
Other verses also forbid eating Meetah (5:3) (6:145) 16:115) (2:173).

While we are talking about what muslims are allowed to listen, i'd
like to add that listening to Kufr words is more explicited prohibited 
in the Qur'an: 

   "And indeed He has revealed to you in the Book that when
    you hear Allah's communications disbelieved in and mocked at
    do not sit with them until they enter into some other discourse; 
    surely then you would be like them; surely Allah will gather
    together the hypocrites and the unbelievers all in hell." (4:140)

The word "ayat" is translated to communications by Shakirs.

BTW: I prefer to transfer this debate to sri to avoid bothering 
those who are not interested in such subjects. 

Ali Muhammad Atie'.
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (...NADINE...)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: grandliban.gif:  INFO
Date: 22 Jul 92 11:19:40 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

Photo caption:

"Great Lebanon is Publicly Proclaimed a Separate State"

On September 1, 1920, General Gouraud, the French High Commissioner for
Syria, publicly proclaimed in Beirut that Lebanon was in the future to be
a separate state independent of Syria and under the protection of the
French government. He is shown here with the Maronite Patriarch 
and the head of the Moslem population.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Mazen Mokhtar)
Subject: Re: A question
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 19:28:24 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.182718.17376@watson.ibm.com> petrak@watson.ibm.com (Raja Petrakian) writes:

>You are historically wrong by saying that there never was a country called
>Lebanon until the French carved it out of Syria.  Lebanon has its
>foundation in the Emirats of Mount Lebanon which are political entities
>that date back to the 18th century and earlier.

  Mercer County a political entity, that does not mean it is an independent
country. There was a time when the Muslim world was divided into numerous
little emirates, this never stopped divided countries from reuniting.

>The Motassarifiat of
>Mount Lebanon is a political reality that was recognized by all the 
>powers of the 19th including the Ottomans.  On the other hand,
>you have to go back about a thousand years in history to encounter
>a political entity called Syria.

  That is incorrect. Syria always existed, but it was not an independent
state, it was part of a much larger and much more powerful state. Syria was
much like Pennsylvania is today. I feel that the carving of Lebanon
was a terrible thing, but I also feel that the carving of Syria was just
as terrible. Unity gives strength, many of us forget and insist on clinging
to the artificial and destructive notion of national identity. When this
notion means division, it cannot help us, it can only help those who divided
us.

  What people really want is to live in a place that respects them and that
gives them the ability to live and work freely. People insist on separation
when they know that their rights are not respected, their livelihoods are
in danger or their prosperity is being confiscated for the benefit of
others. Oppression leads to seperatist sentiments, justice leads to
peace. For that reason, I feel that the Lebanese are right in opposing
reunification with Syria until their rights are protected in a changed Syria.

Regards,

Mazen Mokhtar

Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: The Syrian security point of view
Organization: Univerity of Oslo, Semitics dep.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 20:49:58 GMT

test
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: hani@licorice.engin.umich.edu (Hani Nassif)
Subject: Re: The art of posting. soc.culture.mid-east.academia
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 00:07:54 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: hani@licorice.engin.umich.edu


Sorry if this posting is repeated twice:

I like what Naji is suggesting, although it is outdated.  I recall
that 5 out of 6 scl netters, blasted Hassan Multu on his Turkish vs.
Armenian articles.  However, till now none (without mentionning names)
out of the 6 people have yet to show a shy comment on Elie's outrageous
use of words and pictures to bash Arabs and their heritage.  

Should this silence be interpreted as an approval of those postings?
It seems so.

-Hani
-- 
 ____    ____ "These views are explicitly/implicitly
|    \  /    | mine...and not that of U-M or CAEN",   
 | |\ \/ /| |  University of Michigan| Hani_Nassif@um.cc.umich.edu
 | | \  / | |  1354 G.G.Brown Lab.   | hani@caen.engin.umich.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Brotherhood - should it be political?
Organization: Univerity of Oslo, Semitics dep.
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 08:59:01 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.182139.14016@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> jrad@cbnewsi.cb.att.com
(ahmad.m.jrad) writes:


>Good article Elie. Your eloquence is hard to match.
>
>You forget one major difference though in comparing us to Sweden and
>Norway. We are Muslims (most of us anyway), they are not. We are
>exhorted in the Qur'an to unite by God almighty himself. We must
>unite or at least try to, otherwise we may just all be united in
>the flames of Hell.

I address my question to Mufti al-SCL

Rached

(others are also welcome to answer)

Is it so that the Islamic Umma *MUST* be a political entity?

I know about the matter that Muslims have to be ruled by Muslims, but should
unity imply political unity?

Is there realy no room for Daar al-Salaam where people manage to live
peacefully side bty side?


>Give me one good reason the Lebanese Muslim should not be in favor
>of uniting with Syria. You see Elie, the Lebanese Muslims have
>nothing to lose, they are economically dominated by their
>Christian brothers and politically oppressed by their Syrian >brothers. What
is left to lose? 

everything Ahmad!

You statements about politcal and economical domination are ones that we have
discussed at lenngth. Read my lengthy quote from Corm, nd see his analysis on
te matter.

Ahmad, the choice is not a matter of what you have to gain or loose. It is a
matter of what you want.

If you feel you are Lebanese but let yourself be taken by the tide of
occupation and its threats to accept anything, then you have all to loose,
since you gain nothing and loose all.

If you genuinely believe that you are part of Syria, you should then make your
views known and try to fulfill them by any democratic means.

If you join Syria because you are not satisfied with your Christian brothers,
you do as the one who divorces his spouce in the hope of find somthing better.
Often the problme is with the person himself! and more often the others one
finds are just as bad if not worde than what one had.

"Principles" is the key word. If your country is not what it ought to be, then
you shold do your best to work at decveloping it.

If by principle you belive in the Greater Syria, it is your prerogative. I
don't, it smy prerogative too.

>Ahmad
>

elie wardini
From: medawar@prism.poly.edu (Bassem Medawar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: European Parliament and the Lebanese legislative elections
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:09:47 GMT
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York

In article <rwV-!!+@engin.umich.edu> hani@gilaman.engin.umich.edu (Hani Abinassif) writes:
[..]
>> I imagine some Lebanese (like us) lobbied them to adopt such a resolution.
>> I salute the Lebanese living in Europe who got this result.
>> 
>> bassem
>> 
>
>While you are saluting the Lebanese who sun bathing in FRance, I salute the
>Lebanese who are in Lebanon trying to make a country out of ashes, and
>trying to liberate the South.
>
>-hani

Hani, 2 things:

- there Lebanese in Europe who are like you and I studying.  Others like Edeh
  self exiled awaiting a better political climate.  Many others are
  business who are earning a living there while Lebanon is uncertain.
  To lump all them as sun bathers make a gross injustice.

- I did not say that I don't salute the hard working Lebanese and Freedom
  fighting Lebanese in the South.  I salute them for the record.

bassem
From: elie@sensors.njit.edu (...NADINE...)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Joke :-)
Date: 24 Jul 92 03:52:09 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


Imam Moussa Sadr's sister calls Libya to inquire about her brother.

Sadr: "Alou"
Libyan: "Laa', shawou"

--

                                 ________
________________________________/--------\______________________________________
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: hani@gilaman.engin.umich.edu (Hani Abinassif)
Subject: Re: slaves.gif: INFO
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 00:26:28 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: hani@gilaman.engin.umich.edu


In article <1992Jul23.000241.13998@njitgw.njit.edu>, elie@hdtv.njit.edu (...NADINE...) writes:
> 
> Caption:
> 
> "Negroes of Hejaz Outside their Miserable Home Built of Dirty Rags and 
>  Ropes"
> 
> There are many negroes in Arabia, some of whom are actuially slaves. Most
> of them are the descendants of slaves brought in the past from the near-by
> African coast. When we compare this negro home, so untidy, so dark and
> airless within, with the lofty substantial Arab houses beyond, which
> appear rather modern, we understand how low is the degree of culture
> to which these people have attained. It is in the shape of the beehive
> huts so common in Africa, and its walls are formed of odd fragments
> of sacking and rags and felt held together by ropes.

You are so intellectually bankrupt to the point where you are 
trying to hide behind sick articles, idiotic gif files, and 
irrelevant references (books from a neo-racist groups giveaway).
Can you state your opinion with no visual or stolen aids.  In 
fact the question is, have ever had an opinion?  Are you considered
legaly sain, mentally sound, or  psychologically independent in
the state of N.J.?  I feel sorry for NJIT administration...Did they
ever try to have a gag order and restrict you from intellectual
spots on campus like libraries, bookstores, news stands, or social
gatherings for underaged prepies... 

Did have you routine mental check with your shrink lately? 
It is ok.  You should take it like a man:  You are Hopeless CASE!!

-Hani
-- 
 ____    ____ "These views are explicitly/implicitly
|    \  /    | mine...and not that of U-M or CAEN",   
 | |\ \/ /| |  University of Michigan| Hani_Nassif@um.cc.umich.edu
 | | \  / | |  1354 G.G.Brown Lab.   | hani@caen.engin.umich.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: slaves.gif: INFO
Organization: Univerity of Oslo, Semitics
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 09:24:20 GMT

In article <#3R-88-@engin.umich.edu> hani@gilaman.engin.umich.edu (Hani
Abinassif) writes:
>

>
>Did have you routine mental check with your shrink lately? 
>It is ok.  You should take it like a man:  You are Hopeless CASE!!

Hani, even if one should be careful about they way one pictures other people,
this does not mean that one can not, and even if it is dne ironically, point to
the wrongs someone does.

Note that neither the Bible nor the Qoran has abolished slavery. St. Paul
actually advises a slave to return to his master, while he at the same time
asked the master to treat the slave well.

THe question is Hani, slavery has been abolished only lately in Saoudi Arabia
(I don't remember the date, but maybe you could provide it for us). It is also
"known" that this is only done on paper, and that slavery is a problem in
Saoudi Arabia.

NOw maybe you could provide us with information that refutes such claims. I
have sources that I can quote if you want, but intead of screaming rape or
wolrf every time someone says something that you don't like about somebody,
maybe you should tell us why this person is wrong.

Yes if ElieM makes a claim he should sustain it. I will get you sources that
provide info about this issue.

Yet the important thing is not to defend only to do so. Every body does things
that are wrong. And even if your enemy points that out, you should agree, since
wrong is wrong no matterwho does it!

>-Hani


elie wardini
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: druzedwel.gif: INFO
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:22:05 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.


(This is from 1930, don't flame me)

"Dwellers on the slopes of Mount Lebanon"

The Druzes of Lebanon are nearly all agriculturists, but as they are
also mountain dwellers and good deep soil is rarely found high on a 
mountainside, they have had to carry earth for their crops from the fertile
valleys. On the terraces, which they have made, are planted mulberry trees
to feed the silkworms, olive trees and vines.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: ali@babar.inria.fr (Ali Atie)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Joke
Date: 26 Jul 92 18:09:34 GMT
Organization: Koala Project, Bull Research France

Mr. NADINE (elie) writes:
> 
> Imam Moussa Sadr's sister calls Libya to inquire about her brother.
> 
> Sadr: "Alou"
> Libyan: "Laa', shawou"
> 
> --

You know, the nickname NADINE fits you, it shows your
real nature, esp`ece de pe'd'e.

Ali
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: hani@gilasun.engin.umich.edu (Hani Abinassif)
Subject: Re: The art of posting. soc.culture.mid-east.academia
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 08:19:47 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: hani@gilasun.engin.umich.edu


 eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:

> Hani give me a break!!!

Be my guest!!:-)

It is obviuos that some people chose to remain silent.  The netters
you have named are praised for their position of course, including
yours (although yours is no slap on the hand compared to your previuos 
outbursts e.g. Sbara and Shatilla)...

Forgot all this and let us move on.  How about discussing the new 
elections.  It looks like it is going to take place.  

I wonder how the new members of the parliment will be?  Maybe another
solh, JUmbulat, Beri, Shamoun, Gemayel, Franjieh, Salam...

OR maybe another Hanash, Haidar El-Dayekh, Cowboy, Dankoura, "Pusy" el-Ashkar
etc..

-Hani
-- 
|  Hani Nassif                 |  hani@caen.engin.umich.edu                     |
|  1354 G.G. Brown Bldg.       |  Computer Aided Engineering Network (CAEN)     |
|  University of Michigan      |  Hotline Office, Chrysler Bldg. # 231          |
|  Ann Arbor, Mi 48109         |  Ann Arbor, MI 48109                           |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: ayman@eecs.umich.edu (Ayman I. Kayssi)
Subject: Re: European Parliament and the Lebanese legislative elections
Organization: ACAL, EECS, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 03:23:53 GMT

medawar@prism.poly.edu (Bassem Medawar) writes:
: ... that the election to start in August is but about one issue
: only: the ratification of the Syria/Lebanon unification
: treaty, which is likely to be presented to the new parliament sometime
: during its term.  The first act of the new parliament though shall 
: be to renew the Syrian Army's mendate over Lebanon.
:  
: Do you want union with present day Syria?  Do you want to renew the
: Syrian Army's mendate over Lebanon?  If your answer is no to either,
: the you must actively oppose dishonest elections.

Contrary to what you hear from CLAO and company, the situation on the ground
in Lebanon suggests that the parliamentary elections will take place, in a
"normal" atmosphere. By normal I mean similar to what the Lebanese were 
used to, election-wise, before 1975, including all the talk about the various 
deals between the parties and the families, and also the usual rumors about 
how all the results were falsified, etc... 
The number of people that have already declared their intent to become 
candidates is really amazing, and I do not think that you can label them all
as traitors. Even though you hear some talk about how this leader or that 
'batal' intends to boycott the elections, they're all keeping an eye on their
traditional elections rivals and thinking about a 'strong' electoral list 
that they'll come up with to beat their adversaries. Come to think of it, if
you don't run, your rivals will, and they will win. The elections game in
Lebanon is very complex and intriguing; it's not as simple as Syria appointing
a new parliament.
I will not address the question on what the new parliament will do regarding
unification with Syria, as this would be pure speculation, and I will not
assume beforehand that the elections will be dishonest. As for the presence of
the Syrian Army in Beirut, it is not the parliament's job to extend or 
declare an end to it, but rather, the Presidents and the Councils of Ministers
of both Lebanon and Syria will decide on that matter.

-Ayman

Xref: sparky soc.culture.lebanon:3387 soc.culture.arabic:2809
From: oueichek@ngulu (Ibaa Oueichek)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: About vain words and music (was Re: MORE HUMOUR)
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:41:01 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.lebanon
Organization: IMAG, University of Grenoble, France
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

ali@babar.inria.fr (Ali Atie) writes:
: 
: *************************************
: Anwar Saleh writes:
: > Umm Kulthoom career was singing and did go to Hajj (Mecca) in 
: > Saudia Arabia (the very strict country). 
: 
: Nobody has the right to forbid a muslim (man or woman) to
: go to Hajj, even if this muslim is a singer.
 Does it mean that a "singer" is a "sinner" ?.
: 
: ***************************************
: H. Harmanani writes:
: >I heard that songs and music are not allowed in Islam except for
: >classical music.  The reason I was given was that it wastes people
: >time.  Could that be the case here? 
: 
: Listening to vain words (lahu al-hadith) is not allowed. Must of songs 
: (Umm Kulthum, Abdel haleem, Ragheb Alameh, Mickel Jackson, ...) are
: vain words, so they are forbidden.

 If G-D's says that Umm Kulthum, Fairuz and such great artists are "forbidden"
then excuse-me, i don't want such a G-D.
 Now more seriously, should i understand that if your "heros" (whoever they
are) come to power in Lebanon they will ban Um Kulthum ?. Does Hizbullah
candidats for futur elections have such a wish on their list ?.

: In addition, anything that takes you away from the right path and
: leads you to lose your conscience (even for a little time) is an evil 
: work, so you should avoid it. This is the case of music that challenge you to
: dance. Instead, the classical music is allowed and it could be indeed 
: a remedy for nervousness. However, the best thing is to listen to 
: Allah(SWT)'s words, the Quran:

 Ok, Ok, i see, so music is an evil work, except when it's used as a propaganda
tool. That reminds of one of my best friends, he used to ask a "sheikh" before
doing anything, the guy was found of music and he wanted to learn how to play
violin (sp?) and that "pious" sheikh told my friend it was "haram". Ten years
later, the guy decided that between G-D and music (and plenty of other "Haram's
) he would chosse music, and he became atheist because of this G-D whose the
greatest joy seems to impose more and more "haram" on his "Ibad".
: 
Sham(u) ya tha (s)seif(u) lam yaghib(i) | Ibaa Oueichek. ouicheck@imag.imag.fr
    Ya jamal(al) majd(i) fi(l) kutub(i) | LABORATOIRE 	BULL-IMAG
Kablak(i) (t)tareekh(u) fi thulmaten    | Grenoble. 
    Baadak(i) staula ala (sh)shuhub(i)  |
From: bh437292@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Basil Hamdan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: jokes
Date: 27 Jul 92 19:01:57 GMT
Reply-To: bh437292@lance.colostate.edu
Organization: Engineering College, Colorado State University

In article <1992Jul27.175125.18270@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>,
jrad@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (ahmad.m.jrad) writes:

> Yet this brotherhood is open to all. No racial boundaries or otherwise.
> Any who accept Islam are welcomed with open arms to this brotherhood.
> 
> Peace.
> Ahmad

Who says that scl is only for flames ???
Thanks Ahmad and Ron.

Shalom

Basil
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: The Syrian security point of view
Organization: Univerity of Oslo, Semitics dep.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 20:20:32 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.160328.1053@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> haidar@ces.cwru.edu (H.
Harmanani) writes:
>In article <1992Jul30.142219.8983@prism.poly.edu> medawar@prism.poly.edu
(Bassem Medawar) writes:
>
>>1. I grew up in Syria in the 70s, I lived about 15 km from the the so called 
>>lebanese border (Tripoli). Almost every night Isreali Jets would come over
the 
>>area I lived in through Lebanon and Bomb the Hell out of Syrian positions.
>>
>>2. Lebanon have always lacked a strong position against isreali attacks on 
>>Syria through the Lebanese territory, and had no defense what so ever.
>
>Still with the Syrian military presence in Lebanon, Israeli jets still
>bombard areas and villages.  Syrian army has never done a thing about
>it.  I don't see that as a good reason for "a strong syrian" presence
>in Lebanon. 
>


not to mention all the bomberding that the Syrians themselves have inflicted on
te Lebanese!

Oh brotherly bombs!

>
>-- 
>H. Harmanani (haidar@alpha.ces.cwru.edu)


elie wardini