From: mam@jcnpc.cmhnet.org (Mike A. McAngus)
Subject: Re: The "L" word
Organization: Homebrew Virtual Reality Labs
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 20:27:38 GMT

J.R. Ordon (root@june.cmp.rpi.edu) wrote:
: In article <1992Dec22.074155.21558@jcnpc.cmhnet.org> mam@jcnpc.cmhnet.org (Mi
ke A. McAngus) writes:
: >Owen Barrus (omb@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM) wrote:
: >: In alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, crowder@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Mark Crowder) writes:
: >
: >Useless, gratuitious flame that adds nothing to the conversation and is not
: >warranted by the original post.
: >
: >I view liberalism as, essentially, the belief that the old ways are not usef
ul
: >and new ways must be tried.  Under this example, Ben Franklin and Mikhal
: >Gorbechev were liberals.  Liberalism is time and culture dependent.
: >
: >I classify myself as a liberal and hold to the following beliefs:
: >1) Civil liberties are important to the point where every care must be taken
 in
: >criminal trials so that innocent people are not wrongly convicted.

[2,3,4,5,6,8,9 deleted because we agree]

: >7) Abortion should remain safe and legal.
: >10) Gays should be allowed in the military.
: >
: >And the list goes on and on.
: >--
:
: As a conservative, I totally agree with you in numbers 2,3,4,5,6,8,9.
:
: The rest?
:
: Number 1... well yes, but we must do something about the victims rights also.

What do you propose?

:
: Number 7 ... Personally, I'm pro-life, but I do not feel that I should force
:              my personal beliefs on others.(unlike some liberals &
:              Conservatives). Majority rule should prevail.

I'm pro-choice which means that if a woman does not want an abortion, then she
shouldn't have one.

:
: Number 10 ..Gays ARE in the military, if people doubt this, they're naive.
:             yes, gays cannot admit it, and this should be changed, but with
:             moderation.

Yes, homosexuals are in the military but they are not ALLOWED in the military.  
If their sexual orientation is discovered, then they can be dishonorably 
discharged.

I don't see where we disagree on 7 and 10, and 1 simply needs more discussion.

:
: Now for my additions...
:
: Number 11.  All people should have equal rights, NOT special rights.
: Number 12.  Job employment should be based on ability and qualifications,
:             NOT quotas. This puts me against Affirmative Action.
: Number 13.  Criminals should be treated as just that. I do not believe
:             in making excuses for their actions, bad childhood, poor family,
:             Child abuse, ad nausem. Criminals should not be slapped on the
:             wrist, build more prisons if need be. Eliminate the parole
:             system and have standard sentences for crimes.

11.  I agree, but people are talking about special rights wrt the CO2 amendment
and I don't know what special rightst they are talking about.  Exactly what 
rights were granted to homosexuals in prior to CO2?  (also, if anyone has the 
text of CO2, could you e-mail it to me?)

12.  I too am opposed to Affirmative Action in general, though I believe that 
AA is a valid judicial remedy when a public enterprise has been found to have a
history of discrimination.

13.  I agree.  No excuses wrt socialization.  The innocent by reason of 
insanity defense should also be abandoned because a good argument can be made 
that any sociopath (especially a murder like Dahmer) is not sane.  OTOH, I am 
opposed to capital punishment because there is a very real danger of executing 
an innocent person.

I label myself a liberal, you label yourself a conservative and we have all 
this in common.  Maybe if people stop shouting and start talking we will find a
very large area of agreement in this country after all.  Though the shouting 
will likely stop only after the fringes on the right and left are muzzled.
-- 
Mike McAngus 			 | As if I needed Another time consuming hobby.
(mam@jcnpc.cmhnet.org)		 | 
The Truth is still the Truth	 | This Post exploits illiterates.
Even if you choose to ignore it. | 
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