From: black@che.serum.kodak.com (Robert Black (x37236))
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Re: Response to Bob Black (long)
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:12:05 GMT
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company

In article <1992Sep25.144129.27998@spdc.ti.com> achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jeff Achenbach) writes:
>In article <1992Sep24.205102.25178@clpd.kodak.com> black@che.serum.kodak.com (Robert Black (x37236)) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep23.144206.24290@spdc.ti.com> achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jeff Achenbach) writes:

[...]

>>In fact, this claim was made:
>>******************************************************************************
>>* In article <1992Sep14.152143.618@icd.ab.com> kdw@icd.ab.com (Kenneth D. 
>>* Whitehead) writes:
>>*
>>* >  A minor wound with an
>>* >arrow will heal cleanly, and a lot faster than you'd imagine, because it cuts
>>* >clean.
>>******************************************************************************
>>
>>To which I say that cutting clean in the sense that you mean (and which I
>>believe that Ken meant) is far less relevant to any healing than is the
>>extent of bacterial invasion.
>>
>
>My fingers, which have been sliced by broadheads, heal faster than those that
>have been pierced by a nail or smashed in a car door. Surely you've had 
>similar injuries.

Of course, a slice or a cut heals more rapidly and with less prospect for
infection than a puncture.  That's just the point: the broadhead
penetrating the deer's body is more equivalent to the nail piercing your
finger.  Both are far more likely to produce infection than a slicing 
wound or the slamming of fingers in a car door.

Let me repeat my main point here, lest it get submerged in the side
issues.  An unretrieved escaped wounded deer does NOT have a good chance
of recovery if the wound is a puncture produced by penetration of a
modern broadhead arrow into the deer.  The likelihood is greater
that the deer will die a painful and lingering death due to infection. 

So the humaneness of bowhunting becomes at least partly a question of
how frequently it occurs that wounded and crippled deer escape.  And
there are a number of studies which claim to show that such escapes
occur far more often than is commonly realized.  The current issue of
Bowhunter magazine mentions this claim and states that newer studies
will contradict it.  I hope so, but let's wait and see. 

>
>>>Should no such damage occur, and no major blood vessels be cut, there is a 
>>>good chance of survival.
>>>
>>
>>Your assumption of a linkage between cutting clean and healing quickly
>>does not take into account the tendency of modern broadheads to move
>>bacteria into the wound.  And considering a deer's excellent coagulation
>>ability to close the wound very quickly, it's clear that bacteria stand
>>an excellent chance of causing infection, unless the wound is shallow. 
>>The type of infection will be peritonitis or a septic infection
>>depending on where the wound occurs.

By not challenging this, are you accepting its validity?

>>From the Boydston and Gore study listed below:  "... almost all
>>abdominally-shot deer die a slow death due to peritonitis."

[...]

>>Benke further has this to say:
>>
>>	Ironically broadheads indirectly poison animals to death more
>>	often than they cause death through hemorrhaging.  [p. 78]
>>and
>>	I am positive - and willing to demonstrate - that the .22 long
>>	rifle cartridge is far more adequate than broadhead-tipped
>>	arrows on any mammalian species up to the size of our Texas
>>	whitetails (and probably well beyond).  And, yes, I know that
>>	nowadays the .22 is outlawed for any big game hunting.  But
>>	that's my point.  Based on that criterion, the broadhead will
>>	be outlawed also, since it is less adequate than the .22.
>>	[p. 78]
>>
>
>Having killed animals with both, I consider this .22 comparison to be 
>utter unadulterated bullshit.

Benke has a standing offer to comparatively test the relative humaneness
and efficiency of the broadhead-tipped arrow against the .22.  This offer,
first made in 1982 to M.R. James, editor and publisher of Bowhunter
magazine, is still open to any officers of the Professional Bowhunters
Society, the National Bowhunter Education Foundation, and the Lone Star
Bowhunters Association.  There are only three conditions:

	1.  The shooting must take place on game ranches where the .22
	can be legally used.

	2.  The comparative shooting must be videotaped and witnessed 
	by nonbowhunting representatives of wildlife and/or conservation
	organizations.

	3.  Unedited copies of the videotapes must be made available to
	representatives of game and fish departments and bowhunting
	organizations.

If Benke is proved wrong, he agrees to abandon all his research to find
a more humane arrow and to *never* (his emphasis) write anything about
bowhunting again.  Nobody has taken him up on this, yet the bowhunting
establishment treats him, as you say below, with great disdain.  If
they're so certain of their position, this is an easy way for them to be
rid of him once and for all!

[...]

>>You can look at THE BOWHUNTING ALTERNATIVE by Adrian Benke available
>>from B. Todd Press, 8480 Fredericksburg Road, #350, San Antonio, Texas
>>78229. 
>>
>
>I may have to read this. Benke is held in great disdain by bowhunters, but 
>I'd like to read it and make my own decision. The main objection I've heard
>is that he advocates poisoned arrows. I fear that these may lead to unethical
>hunters taking more risky shots, thinking that any hit is good enough.

Benke advocates use of SCC (succinylcholine chloride) to insure quick
humane kills.  SCC is a paralytic agent which blocks messages from the
brain to the skeletal muscles.  It has been used in veterinary practice
as well as in the capture and restraint of wild animals.  To refer to it
as a poison is not really accurate.  Think of it as either a drug or a
hunting projectile agent, depending on the usage.

>
>>His sources showing that very few animals survive deep traumatic injuries
>>such as those inflicted by broadheads include:
>>
>>	Dechert. J.A. 1967.  The Effects of Overpopulation on the Fort
>>	Knox Deer Herd.  Proceedings of the Southeastern Association of 
>>	Game and Fish Commissioners 21:15-23.
>>
>>	Nettles, V.F., Hayes, F.A. and Martin, W.M. 1976,  Observations
>>	on Injuries in White-Tailed Deer.  Proceedings of the Southeastern 
>>	Association of 	Game and Fish Commissioners 30:474-480.

[...]

>>Finally, I have a LIST of 18 bowhunting studies which purport to show
>>that wounding losses in bowhunting range from 44% to 68%.  These studies
>>were conducted in the following states: Michigan, Georgia, Texas, 
>>Montana, Alabama, South Carolina, Vermont, Iowa, Missouri, Wisconsin,
>>and South Dakota.
>>
>>Of this list, I have a copy of just one:
>>
>>	Boydston, G.A. and Gore, H.G. 1987, "Archery Wounding Loss in
>>	Texas."  Texas Parks and Wildlife Department. Austin, TX 78744.
>>
>>If these studies are valid, then there is a strong suggestion that
>>wounding is a big problem in bowhunting.  The logical followup question
>>would then be: Of these animals who escaped wounded from a hunting
>>encounter, how many recover and how many suffer slow lingering painful
>>deaths?
>>
>>Benke's answer to this question is NOT reassuring.
>>
>
>Thanks for the references. I'll try and get hold of them. 

Other references listed in Benke's bibliography include:

	Causey, M.K., Kennamer, J.E., Logan, J. and Chapman, Jr., J.I.
	1978.  "Bowhunting White-tailed Deer with Succinylcholine Chloride-
	Treated Arrows."  Wildlife Society Bulletin 6(3):142-145.

	Downing, R.L. 1971.  "Comparison of Crippling Losses of White-
	tailed Deer Caused by Archery, Buckshot and Shotgun Slugs."
	Proceedings of the Southeastern Association of Game and Fish
	Commissioners 25:77-82.

	Stormer, F.A., Kirkpatrick, C.M., and Hoekstra, T.W. 1979.
	"Hunter-Inflicted Wounding of White-tailed Deer."  Wildlife
	Society Bulletin 7(1):10-16.

Other references which Benke does not list:

	Aho, R.W. 1984.  "Deer Hunting Retrieval Rates."  Michigan
	Pittman-Robertson Report.  Michigan Department of Natural
	Resources, Lansing, Michigan.

	Gladfelter, H.L., Kienzler, J.M. and Kohler, K.J. 1983.
	"Effects of Compound Bow Use on Hunter Success and Crippling
	Rates in Iowa."  Wildlife Society Bulletin 11(1):7-12.

	Langenau, Jr., E.E. 1986.  "Factor Associated with Hunter
	Retrieval of Deer Hit by Arrows and Shotgun Slugs."  Leisure
	Sciences 8(4):417-438.

	McPhillips, K.B., Linder, R.L. and Wentz, W.A. 1985.
	"Nonreporting, Success, and Wounding by South Dakota Deer
	Bowhunters -- 1981."  Wildlife Society Bulletin 13(4):395-398.

(Typos in these are my own.)

>
>Jeff Achenbach
>achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com

---
Robert Black 
black@serum.kodak.com  - The ONLY email address that MIGHT work.
These views are not necessarily the views of my employers.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals