HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: protest question (rule 32
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:06:00 -0800


GB>Rule 32.1 states that for you to DSQ the starboard tack boat
GB>three things must occur:
GB>    1)  Substantial damage
GB>    2)  Right of way boat had the opportunity to avoid the collision
GB>    3)  Right of way boat failed to make a reasonable attempt.

GB>The rules don't require that you avoid the collision, only that you
GB>make a reasonable attempt if you have the opportunity.  If he didn't see
GB>the port tacker he didn't have the opportunity to avoid. Moreover,
GB>what did he do when he did see the port tacker?  Did he try to
GB>bear off or tack as soon as he saw the port tacker?  That would
GB>satisfy item 3 even if he didn't succeed.

GB>What rule did you use for disqualification?  I am not aware of any
GB>rule that requires maintaining an adequate watch in the prevailing
GB>conditions.

Hi Guido, thanks for the comments. The committee found that the
requirements of R32 had been met. There was substantial damage. As John
Hughes commented in another reply, it is reasonable to expect that
appropriate lookout be maintained. Stbd failed to keep watch. The stbd
skipper admitted that he was just 'looking ahead and had been for some
considerable period of time'. The first he saw of port, was when the bow
of port drove through his jib, and crunched the toe rail at the shrouds.
If he had maintained a proper watch, he could have hailed Port, and or
altered course to avoid the collision.

Both boats retired from the race. Port as 'guilty' party, and stbd,
because of the damage. Stbd requested that a protest be held to document
the occurrence for his insurance company. By finding as we did, we
placed some percentage of the responsibility for the collision onto
stbd. The decision was not appealed. I never heard how the insurance
claim was settled.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Hello, I am part number ||#||||#||#||#||


Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Subject: Re: Bayliner Boats
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 10:29:56 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.025924.6577@phx.mcd.mot.com> teroach!dbk@phx.mcd.mot.com (Dave Kinzer) writes:
>  I had an interesting discussion with a friend of my father whom I
>bumped into in a paint store last night.  I knew he is a boat owner,
>and I steered the discussion that way by mentioning I am in the process
>of buying one.  He mentioned that I should have no problems with the hull,
>as his, a 21 foot Sea Ray, has up to eight inches of layed up fiberglass
>in stratigic areas.                  ^^^^^

This is a remarkable number. The makes his hull much stronger, locally, than
typical ships of the Royal Navy, which were built to bear cannonball hits.
Now Sarah has about 4.5" of glass locally in a few spots--her engine mounts
seem to be built up out of the stuff. But this idea that a 21 foot Sea Ray
might have 8" seems astounding. 
   Did anyone else balk at this number? TO the extend that I've investigated it
(which is not much), it seems that even large trucks don't have anyplace
on them that consists of much more than a 6" square hollow tube of steel; that
is probably not so very different in ultimate strength from this 8" solid 
block of fiberglass.  Or am I completely misinformed?

   Have you ever tried to put a hole in a piece of fiberglass? I tried once,
with a sledgehammer. The glass was about 3/16" thick. The sledge bounced. 
With an axe, I could have done more....

-John
From: paul@ee.rochester.edu (Paul Osborne)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Si-Tex fishfinder hookup
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:03:37 GMT
Organization: Univ of Rochester, College of Engineering and Applied Science

In article <1992Aug13.124454.25513@ruacad.ac.runet.edu> ddabay@ruacad.ac.runet.edu (Dave Dabay) writes:
>
>
>
>A friend has acquired a nice but used Si-tex recording fish finder.  The 
>transducer plug has been discarded and he wants to know the pin-outs
>or cable connection for this.
>
>	the model is an HE-356B and has 2conductors and a shield
>	one of the pins in the plug has an "E" next to it.
>
>
>Any help with this would be appreciated....
>
>thanks
>dave
>
	Dave, the best that I can offer is Si-tex phone# 813-535-4681.
	Give them a call.

	paul

>-- 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Subject: Re: protests or using the rules
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:38:02 GMT

In article <21AUG199214241650@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man...) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.161859.19010@cs.brown.edu>, jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes) writes...
>>[...]     winning more important than fair play. And Handicap racing has, over
>>the years, led to some of the most hideously ugly boats ever built. I won't
>>even get into seaworthiness...
>
>Oversimplification. This may be somewhat or even largely true of IOR and now 
>IMS, but it isn't true of PHRF. PHRF works pretty well for production boats
>for which a lot of statistical data is available. The vintage of these boats
>isn't important, the ratings can take this into account. 

I agree I oversimplified. What I said was true---that rating rules have
generated ugly boats; but it is true that there are rating rules that
have not done so, and PHRF is one of them. On the other hand, PHRF has
its own faults, as detailed in the rest of the posting above.  One of these
is that certain boats "sail above their ratings", and become quite popular
on account of it. (Used to be that Ranger 29s did this, as I recall). Still,
no one can build new and ugly boats to deliberately screw PHRF. 

>>Still---I think that I've seen Airwaves (isn't that the boat you're on,
>>Stepen?) and she's quite snazzy. So I am not implying that *all* boats
>>bult for handicap racing are ugly. I wouldn't make a statement like that
>>without an asbestos suit. 
>
>If it is a big dark blue boat with big bendy rig and red logo, it's probably
>the one that races around here. Not the same one.

Actually, I saw it up in Maine about 2 years ago. But it sounds like the same
thing---lots of logo....

-John
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: hall@satie.psu.edu (PeggyHall)
Subject: Re: Bayliner Boats
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 19:21:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug10.175839.18556@cs.ubc.ca> goldberg@cs.ubc.ca (Murray W. Goldberg) writes:
>In article <BsLJ5C.7Eq@news.udel.edu> iseman@ravel.udel.edu (Stephen Early) writes:
>>In article <jfp1.712852399@Ra.MsState.Edu> jfp1@Ra.MsState.Edu (John F Perry) writes:
>>>	I am considering buying a ski/pleasure boat.  The price of Bayliner
>>>products are attractive but I have heard some bad stories about the Bayliner
>>>line of boats.  Do any of you have experiences with ski/pleasure boats in the
>>>18 to 20 ft. range that you could share -- especially about Bayliners.
>>>
>>I've heard they have thin hulls, no first hand experience though.
>>
>>Steve
>
>
>I have seen a couple articles stating that these boats have thin hulls. This
>seems borne out by the comparatively light weight of their boats. However, I
>have not seen any postings claiming problems as a result of the reduced
>thickness. Is there a disproportionate number of hull failures on 18-20'
>bayliners? Does anyone have a heavily used, older bayliner? Are there other 
>problems attributable to thin hulls?
>
>Someone also mentioned that their use is questionable in salt water. Was this
>a comment on the hull design again - or a comment on the serviceability of
>the engine and gastank?
>
>This may be a naive view, but **IF THE THIN HULLS ARE DURABLE** (and cause
>no other problems) the extra fuel economy and speed gained from the reduced
>weight would be welcome.
>
Bayliner Boats are built with inferior chopper gun manufacturing process.
The most important part of a well built boat is that the fiberglass is
  hand laid and the laminates are precisely measured.    
In a coastal environment with frequently choppy waters the weight saved
  with a thin hulled boat will certainly have cost you plenty in the 
  ride department.
Also, be sure to look for stainless hardware including all deck hardware
  screws.



Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: walter@watson.ibm.com (Walter Wilson)
Subject: Re: Olympic Yachting Medals
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:23:54 GMT
Distribution: usa
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In <l7tm4iINNh7j@male.EBay.Sun.COM> jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM (Jeff Huntington) writes:


>I never thought of Spain as being that strong in sailing.  Is this a case of 

Don't you recall the Spanish Main? :-)

-- 

  Walter G. Wilson  (walter@watson.ibm.com)
  The opinions expressed here are my own.

  "My plans for the year all laid out...
   Ah... A dream in Springtime "
     -- Shodo (Go Seigen)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Subject: Re: snow goose
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:15:42 GMT

In article <23796@oasys.dt.navy.mil> hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners) writes:
:In rec.boats, walter@watson.ibm.com (Walter Wilson) writes:
:>
:>But seriously folks, in my 30 years of driving a
:>car, I have NEVER run out of gas. If I were to drive
:>a powerboat, I would never run out of gas there, either.
:>Why would you?
:>
:Well... Guess our life priorities are not precisely identical.  I would
:guess I've run out of gas on the road three or four times in 35 years;
:once in a powerboat, once with my Perkins powered sloop (bummer), and
:just a week ago in my 3 1/2 hp dink-- doffed my shirt and *sailed* 'bout
:a mile back to my anchored sloop.  Or perhaps its in the genes-- my
:daughter's run out of gas three times in but five years driving.  :-)
:Obviously, where you're motoring and the conditions have a big influence
:on the urgency of sufficient fuel.

I'm somewhere in the middle. I've run out of gas once in a car, and a couple
of times in my dinghy. Usually I just pull the fuel container out from
beneath the thwart and refill (no gasoline ever comes aboard the big boat).
Once I found it empty. I used the oars. If I had had no oars, I would have
checked the fuel, of course.

The real question is this: when you ran out of gas in your car, did you fire
off a flare to alert the state police? :-) 

The one time that something moderately like this happened to me was in the
Gulf of Maine last summer, when I ran out of electricity (a bad connection
in the charging circuit...sigh); the conditions were not nice--20-25 kts,
increasing, with rain, and seas running 2-4 ft, increasing. I called up the
CG and asked what they would suggest; it was late enough that we could not
get to shore in daylight, and they put us in contact with someone who brought
a battery out to us (at considerable cost). I'm glad I forked over the money
for his effort. The fellow later wrote to tell me that he had hit 10 foot
seas heading back in later, and I would suppose that we saw much the same
thing later that night---but it was dark out and hard to tell.

I suppose I *could* have fired off a flare---we were in *some* danger, since
we would inevitably end up sailing at night without lights---but it just
didn't seem right to me. It also would not have done much good, of course
:-). 

-John
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: kvk@questor.sw.stratus.com (Ken Koellner)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Omega stands behind their product.
Date: 18 Aug 92 13:51:00 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering

A couple months ago I bought my SO a pair of Omega boat shoes at Bliss
Marine (E&B) in Woburn, MA.  A few weeks later, one of the nylon
loopies that the laces run through broke (It looks like there was a
little bubble in the plastic).  Last week we were at Bliss Marine to
get some other stuff.  My SO asked about whether there was any
warrentee or anything on the shoes.  They looked at her like she had
two heads (I've found some of the sales people at Bliss to be a little
slow).  So she calls up Omega in Linden NJ and explains that the shoes
broke.  They say no problem, send them back and we'll send you a new
pair.  She told them that we were leaving for a cruise next Friday and
would not reveive the new shoes in time.  Omega sent the new shoes
right out and we had them two days later.  Today I sent back the old
shoes.

I complement Omega on their service.
-- 
An amazing insight may have paid you a fleeting visit and then retreated.
Resist the temptation to chase it; it is faster than you are.  Value your
glimpse of it, and invite it to return some other time.      -John Bitmap
From: ddabay@ruacad.ac.runet.edu (Dave Dabay)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Si-Tex fishfinder hookup
Date: 13 Aug 92 12:44:54 GMT
Organization: Radford University




A friend has acquired a nice but used Si-tex recording fish finder.  The 
transducer plug has been discarded and he wants to know the pin-outs
or cable connection for this.

	the model is an HE-356B and has 2conductors and a shield
	one of the pins in the plug has an "E" next to it.


Any help with this would be appreciated....

thanks
dave

-- 
Dave Dabay  Senior Programmer/Analyst   703-831-5482    KD3PC	
Radford University Computer Services	Internet: ddabay@ruacad.ac.runet.edu
From: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: How windy?
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:07:01 GMT
Reply-To: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Annapolis, MD

In rec.boats, crouse@eng.umd.edu (Gil Crouse) writes:
>In article <l94rfrINN5fr@cronkite> billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>>In article 20963@das.harvard.edu, bloxham@geophysics.harvard.edu (Jeremy Bloxh
>am) writes:
>>
>>[observing that wind on drizzly day seemed stronger than instruments indicated
>>>
>>>What else could explain it? Perhaps windspeed instruments under read in
>>>heavy drizzle, but I would have thought the effect of the cups
>>>impacting water droplets would be negligible. Any ideas?
>>>
>>Perhaps heavy (wet) wind is more "forceful" than light (dry) wind.
>>
>Aerodynamic forces are proportional to the density of air.  (This is
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Forces,  F = m dv/dt (change in momentum) where mass (or density) is
only part of the equation.

>why planes have trouble taking off at high altitude.)  Thus humid air
>(heavier) air is, in fact, more "forceful" than dry air.  I'm not
>entirely certain what effect water droplets in the air would have on
>the aerodynamic forces but probably this would also result in

Actually water vapor (gaseous water, not condensed fog) is *lighter*
than standard air mix with a molecular weight of 18 vs ~29.  But rain
or dense fog will be *somewhat* heavier.  A well made anemometer is
nearly insensitive to the *density* of the gas.  The velocity is main
factor with the bucket peripheral velocity being nearly proportional to
the wind velocity.  Rainwater may possibly have fouled the bearings
of the anemometer, causing it to under-state windspeed.

-- Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J. Hanners         "My comments; only mine."          *DIASTOLE* 676673
CD, NSWC, Annapolis, MD                              hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: wkl5819@zeus.tamu.edu (LEVERICH, WILLIAM KENT)
Subject: Re: Lone Star Info Wanted
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:35:00 GMT

Lone Stars were built by Chrysler Boats located in Plano, TX.
I don't have their full address handy, but I can look it up if
you need it.  I don't even know if Chrysler is still in business.

Kent Leverich
WKL5819@ZEUS.TAMU.EDU
From: kenh@seahcx.UUCP (Ken Hughes)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: marine heads - advice/recommendations wanted
Keywords: groco head
Date: 18 Aug 92 22:37:59 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Harris Computer Systems - Bellevue, WA

I have a Groco Model EB electric head on my boat.  I've had 
problems with it since day one (it was a used boat).  I've 
put in a new master kit with no help.  Have talked with a 
couple of retailers about heads in general and am told that 
this model has never been much good.  Are they just trying 
to sell me a new one?

Any experience with this model or recommendations on how to 
make it work or low cost alternatives would be appreciated.

Ken Hughes  
home number:  (206) 391-2422
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Harris Computer Systems             Voice:  (206) 453-0303              | 
| 10900 N.E. 8th Street, Suite 1100   UUCP: khughes@csd.harris.com        |
| Bellevue, Washington  98004               ..!uunet!pilchuck!seahcx!kenh |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Re: protest question, rule 32.1
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:35:07 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO

In rec.boats, spencer@panix.com (David Spencer) writes:


    It's just dumb to hit another boat if you can avoid it. No amount of
    
I can think of one occasion when it was a rather sensible thing to do.
Years ago (more than I care to acknowledge) I raced Fireballs and
there was a character in our fleet who loved to play "port tack
chicken".  He would approach on port yelling at you to hold your
course.  He would keep that up even when he knew he didn't have a hope
of crossing.  He was one of these dominant people and a lot of the
younger sailors were intimidated by him.  Those who did finally move
to avoid a collision were scorned by him mightily--"I told you to hold
your course.  If you hadn't ......" --you get the picture!  There were
a few protests and he lost some and won others but it did not make any
difference.

Finally one person decided he had had enough.  When XX told him to
hold his course, he did.  He moved him and his crew to the back of the
boat so as to lift the bow, and drove right up on the hull of XX.  XX
had a pretty wooden boat and he never did that again to anyone.
Starboard disqualified himself from the race, told XX to sue him if he
wanted damages, spent an evening repairing his fiberglass boat, and
was a hero for as long as anyone remembered.

more B.S!
From: siegrist@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Frank Siegrist)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Flares (was: Re: snow goose)
Date: 14 Aug 92 12:55:55 GMT
Reply-To: siegrist@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Frank Siegrist)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.boats, hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners) writes:
>So here we are, come full-circle.  The original poster spoke of a spontaneous
>firing of a five-year outdated flare.  Does anyone know if old "powder"
>becames unstable?  I recall this to be of concern regarding the battleship
>explosion a few yews ago.

In answer to Bob's question about explosives becomming unstable, YES
YES! YES!.  Especially black powder.  I'm not sure what the propellant
in a flare is, but would guess it might be related to gun powder.  The
Navy's position on old explosives is you don't have any.  In our explosives
operation here at DTMB, we are reqired to justify to Navy inspectors
why we have _any_ explosives that have been stored over a year.  There
aren't very many acceptable reasons.
  A word of advice, if you see an explosive and it has gooey stuff
coming out of it, call for the bomb squad.  Don't even try to move it.
You've got black powder that is ready to go.  In inspecting any of your 
pyrotechnics, (flares, smoke generators, etc.) if you see any sign of 
moisture, change of color in the wrapper, or anything else that looks 
unusual, I would reccomend you get rid of it.  Your local police may 
take them if they have a bomb disposal squad.
   Remember, an explosive is a mixture of chemicals designed to be unstable.
It then has other chemicals and things added to it to make it less unstable.
Sometimes the additives evaporate, melt, change composition, disolve
in water and you lose your protection.  It sure can ruin your day.

Frank
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: fishman@tracker.rtp.dg.com (Mike Fishman)
Subject: Re: snow goose
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 23:17:20 GMT
Organization: Data General Corp., Westboro, MA

In article <1992Aug15.131710.5294@phri.nyu.edu> roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes:
>fishman@tracker.rtp.dg.com (Mike Fishman) writes:
>>You are 2 miles offshore, no radio and you are out of gas.
>>WHAT EXACTLY WOULD YOU DO, if not fire off a flare (or two).. 
>
>And what, may I ask, are you doing 2 miles offshore without a radio?
>

I fish in a 16 foot tin boat with a 35hp motor. I can easily run OR drift
2 or more miles into the center of the bay while fluke fishing OR trolling. 
I don't consider 2 miles very far, but as you said it's a heck of a swim. 
10+ miles from home is "far".

Another question. What is an acceptable method of transporting "extra" fuel on
board. Can I safely carry an approved 6Gal gas can on deck.. assumming I don't
trip on it? What about safety issues wrt re-fueling on the water. I had always
assummed that carrying a gas can and refueling on the water was a no-no..

Comments.???

PS: Thanks for the heat. I admit I deserve it. I expect to install some type
of communication AND a 12 gal gas tank as soon as funds (and spouse) permits.
In the meantime, I'll keep an eye on the fuel tank and try to only fish
incoming tides.. ;-)

Tight Lines.....

						Mike Fishman
				(part-time engineer and full-time fisherman)
{									      }
{These are strictly my opinions and not necessarily those of my employer      }
{									      }
{									      }
{ PS: email: fishman@tracker.webo.dg.com .or. mike_fishman@DGC.ceo.dg.com     }
From: thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu (T. Scott Thompson)
Subject: Re: QE II Grounding
Reply-To: thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:20:53 GMT

dousson@laas.fr (Christophe Dousson) writes:

[stuff about numbers on hulls deleted]

>Of course, ocean racers can easily draw 50-90 feet (and usually, classes in
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^                 ^^^^^^^^^^ 
>races are given in feet -Europe 1-Star (ex O-Star)-).

Imagine the sail area that one of these babies can carry!  :)
From: greg@netcom.com (Greg Bullough)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Flares (was: Re: snow goose)
Date: 15 Aug 92 16:26:34 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Aug14.181532.527@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> kevin@turbo.Columbia.NCR.COM (Kevin Ormerod) writes:
>
>The only flares that we ever had problems with (ignition problems)
>were the Skyblazer brand -- the self contained type that are ignited
>by pulling a chain.  I have been told that they solved their
>problems but ...

[gingerly and ever-so-gently removes the Skyblazer from the front pocket
 of his sailing shorts...]
 
Greg