HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: aus.computers.ibm-pc
Subject: Re: Reading Mac disk in PC?
From: warhil@post.ntu.edu.au (Warren Hill)
Date: 1 Oct 92 12:22:58 +0900
Followup-To: aus.computers.ibm-pc
Distribution: world
Organization: Northern Territory University

In article <1992Sep29.074508.28031@ausom.oz.au>, robertp@ausom.oz.au
(Robert Pascale) wrote:
> 
> 
> >In article 9222@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au, s921574@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Kok Heng Chan) writes:
> >>Hi,
> >>
> >>I'm currently working on both Mac and PC, I wonder if any of you know of
> >>any device driver or software that can read Mac disk from IBM-PC disk drive ?
> >>
> >>Thanks in advance.
> >>
> 
> >Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the Mac uses a variable-speed drive so it's
> >not possible to read a Mac in an IBM drive.

You are right, but you can get a card for the PC (around $400 last time
 I looked) which plugs into an expansion slot and takes the cable from 
the floppy disk driver as input and connects to your drive.

There is also software available for the Mac that can not only read and
 write to DOS disks but also format them and translate files for both 
platforms.  We use MacLink Plus, which also comes with something called 
DOS mounter which makes the DOS disk appear on the desktop and converts
DOS directories to folders. You can also map DOS file extensions to 
appropriate Mac applications, so that by double clicking on the DOS 
file, automatic translation and loading occurs.

Last but not least, there is SoftPC, a software emulator that allows
you to run DOS software on the Mac. Funny, some people don't get the 
joke when you suggest that running SoftPC on a Mac could allow them
to run Windows.

One catch to all of the above, your Mac needs to have the "superdrive"
to be able to do this.

Hope this is useful.

Warren Hill
Northern Territory University
Newsgroups: aus.computers.ibm-pc
From: chris@coombs.anu.edu.au (Chris @ SSDA)
Subject: Re: Reading Mac disk in PC?
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
Date: 28 Sep 92 06:22:15 GMT

adam@arcadia.mc.phillip.edu.au (Adam Eberbach) writes:

>In article 9222@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au, s921574@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Kok Heng Chan) writes:
>>Hi,
>>
>>I'm currently working on both Mac and PC, I wonder if any of you know of
>>any device driver or software that can read Mac disk from IBM-PC disk drive ?
>>
>>Thanks in advance.
>>

Yes you can - there is some commercial software available called MAC-IN-DOS
from Pacific Micro - which will enable you to read and write HD mac disks in 
a 3.5" HD dos drive.

Unfortunately this is all the information i have on the product.

Hope this helps.

Chris.

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
                  Chris Patterson | Ph:  +61 6 2492185
     Social Science Data Archives | AARNet: Chris@coombs.anu.edu.au
   Australian National University | "I wonder what happens if I ..."
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
                  Chris Patterson | Ph:  +61 6 2492185
     Social Science Data Archives | AARNet: Chris@coombs.anu.edu.au
   Australian National University | "I wonder what happens if I ..."
Newsgroups: aus.computers.ibm-pc,monash.pc,comp.os.msdos.apps,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
From: int177c@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Jae J Won)
Subject: Re: Quattro Pro For Windows
Organization: Monash University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 11:53:13 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.082954.23375@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au> ianst@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (Ian Staples) writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.134254.12901@midway.uchicago.edu> pynq@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>In article <ins279k.718286065@mdw039.cc.monash.edu.au> ins279k@mdw039.cc.monash.edu.au (Martin Halford) writes:
>>
>>>>Are there any differences bewteen the "Academic Edition" and the full blown edition.
>
>[stuff deleted]
>
>>Theoretically, academic versions do not include any support - thus, the
>>considerable reduction in price.  The idea is that if you are affiliated
>>
>Hmmm...If this is true, and given the nonsupport for many packages here
>in Australia, then locally purchased software really *is* overbloodypriced!

I bought wordperfect 5.1 for DOS about a year ago. Academic edition of course.
About 5 months ago, I sent away my first diskette of the package and got a
free upgrade..yes  *free* upgrade to WordPerfect 5.1 for Windows. I got all
the manual and also the short tutorial there is and everything that seems
to come with normal wordperfect...
From what I hear, MS is a real bastard when it comes to software upgrade(I
mean, 100 or something for 0.1 upgrade is ...well...)..but then again, what
do you expect from someone who makes software that doesn't work and charge
an arm and a leg for it...

Jae
From: u6104701@ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
Newsgroups: aus.computers.ibm-pc
Subject: RE: Reading Mac disks in PC?
Date: 6 Oct 92 04:02:11 GMT
Organization: The University of Melbourne

To add to the numerous postings re mac disks in pcs

Apple file exchanger on a mac with a high density drive would be cheap
the mac would have to be an SE/30, LC, II or quadra. Older macs: plus, 512K,
classic, SE only have the 800K or 400K if really old.

More expensive solution, via apple talk. Apple released a product called 
Apple share PC card.(now produced by farrallon, called something else?).
You put a card in an expansion slot and connect to a mac, mac printer or
an apple talk network.(good for an ibm in a mac based enviroment).
Using the supplied software you can transfer in both directions with or with
out conversion (mac -> dos, or Dos -> mac). You can also print on printers 
connected to the apple talk network (it does an epson emmulation).

Help this is useful

Martin

School of Chemistry
University of Melbourne
Victoria 3052
Australia

U6104701@ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
Newsgroups: aus.computers.ibm-pc,monash.pc,comp.os.msdos.apps,comp.apps.spreadsheets,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
From: jim@world.std.com (James D. McNamara)
Subject: Re: Quattro Pro For Windows -- Academic or Special Edition?
Organization: Blue Mountain Software Co.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:17:27 GMT

>> Are there any differences bewteen the "Academic Edition" and the full blown edition.
>Not sure. Generally Borland is good this way but I don't know. Then again
>the full version is costing us $80 so I didn't have much incentive to find out

Note that "Quattro Pro--Special Edition (SE)" is a TRIMMED DOWN version of
Quattro Pro for DOS, which requires less disk space... and delivers 99%
percent of the functionality that most folks use.  (WordPerfect has a similar
trimmed-down DOS product: Letter Perfect.)

"ACADEMIC EDITION" may indeed the the FULL PRODUCT--I'm not sure, so you'll
have to check it out for yourself.  I have purchased full-blown products
with Academic Pricing (WorkPerfect), full program but no manuals under
Academic Pricing (MS QuickC), and would be curious to hear about QPro...
-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
James D. McNamara, hacking late-night at ...           | jim@world.STD.COM
32 Waldo Road, Arlington, MA 02174-5518                | Voice: (617) 646-2812
Newsgroups: aus.computers.ibm-pc,com.sys.ibm.pc.misc
From: u906271@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Chris Chew)
Subject: Re: formatting 720K disks problem
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Distribution: aus
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 15:13:22 GMT

sondhu@latcs2.lat.oz.au (Paul Sondhu) writes:


>Can someone please tell me how to format a 720k DSDD disk on the PC?

>doing a 'format a: or b:' trys to format a high density disk and doing
>a 'format a:/2 or aformat a:/4 ' doesnt work.

>Thanks.

Do a "format <drive>: /f:720"
720 for 720k
1440 for 1.44M
1.2 for 1.2M
360 for 360k

Regards
Chris


>-- 
>***************************************************
>*    Paul Sondhu  :    sondhu@latcs2.lat.oz.au    *
>***************************************************



--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Chew Hong Gunn      |    A Signature?
B.Sc/B.E (Third Year)     |    I'll have to think about it...
University of Tasmania    |    Email:  u906271@postoffice.utas.edu.au
Australia                 |            u906271@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: aus.computers.ibm-pc
From: matthias@ecr.mu.oz.au (Matthias_Markus LANG)
Subject: Re: DRDOS+SSTOR BOOTING
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 09:47:52 GMT

In article <717904811.AA00000@csource.oz.au>, Rod.Grant@f393.n634.z3.fidonet.org (Rod Grant) writes:
> Can anybody help me? My operating system is DRDOS 6 and I've
> just installed the SuperStor disk compressor on my hard drive
> and I can't seem to make a bootable floppy!  Everytime I try
> to access the hard drive,after booting from the floppy the
> message I receive is "Not Ready Reading Drive C: (ABORT RETRY,
> FAIL)" Booting straight from the hard disk is no problem at
> all.
>  

Sounds like you're booting from a floppy and trying to access a compressed
drive without loading the SuperStore drivers. Guaranteed NOT to work. :-)

Load your superstore drivers from the floppy and see how it goes.
(Though you wouldn't normally have C drive compressed would you?)


Newsgroups: aus.computers.ibm-pc
From: johnw@psychnet.psychol.utas.edu.au (John Wanless)
Subject: Re: Reading Mac disk in PC?
Organization: Psychology Department, University of Tasmania
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 02:23:35 GMT

In article <warhil-011092121049@warrenhill.ntu.edu.au> warhil@post.ntu.edu.au (Warren Hill) writes:
>Subject: Re: Reading Mac disk in PC?
>From: warhil@post.ntu.edu.au (Warren Hill)
>Date: 1 Oct 92 12:22:58 +0900
>In article <1992Sep29.074508.28031@ausom.oz.au>, robertp@ausom.oz.au
>(Robert Pascale) wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> >In article 9222@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au, s921574@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Kok Heng Chan) writes:
>> >>Hi,
>> >>
>> >>I'm currently working on both Mac and PC, I wonder if any of you know of
>> >>any device driver or software that can read Mac disk from IBM-PC disk drive ?
>> >>
>> >>Thanks in advance.
>> >>
>I use an option board from Central Point Software that lives between the 
disk controller card and the disk drive. With the software provided you can 
read and write to Mac disks, the version 5.4 however can only handle 800k & 
400k formats.Perhaps they now have a higher density version avaiable now.
I use it regulary for Word & Excel documents in both binary and text formats.
In Australia you can purchase the package from Vaporware, P O Box 286, 
Guildford, NSW.
Bye for now,
John
From: ardtlong@adam.adelaide.edu.au (Dale T. Long)
Newsgroups: aus.computers.ibm-pc
Subject: Help needed with machine set up (EGA card).
Date: 6 Oct 92 05:37:50 GMT
Organization: The University of Adelaide
NNTP-Posting-Host: adam.adelaide.edu.au


I am having trouble with a new EGA display card. The computer in question
is a Quadtel 80286 based machine (HT12 processor and 1 Meg of memory).
It uses an 8 bit card driving two Segate ST255 hard drives and a 'CA8392'
AT multi I/O card (IDE port disabled, FDD, 2 COMs ports, a printer port
and a joy stick port). All works fine with the original CGA card I use.
Now when I swap the CGA card for the EGA card (a VT 'video technology?' card)
I get a 'Parity error 2 0000'. This is in 'auto detect' mode. When I set it
to be a CGA card it works fine. When I set it to be an EGA card (via dip
switches) it seems to work. Text display is fine. However, when I use
high resolution graphics such as in various games or the graphics mode of
DOS SHELL 5.0 the machine locks up after about one to five minutes. It
did this once with a text program as well (40x25). This is with virtually
every program I have tested. After much card removal and card function
disabling I found that this problem did not occur if the FDD part of the
multi function board/card was disabled. The FDD controler part of the m/f
card must conflict with the EGA card. The EGA auto detect would work fine
(no parity error) with the FDD controler disabled. There must be a conflict
in I/O lines or ROM/RAM space required. I find this very frustrating.
I cannot effectively use the EGA card and my floppy drives at the save time.
Is there a way to fix this dilema? Has this problem happened to anyone else?
Is it usual for a FDD controler and EGA card to conflict?

                                Thank you in advance.


Dale Long.
ardtlong@adam.adelaide.edu.au
From: Rod.Grant@f393.n634.z3.fidonet.org (Rod Grant)
Sender: acsnet@csource.oz.au
Newsgroups: aus.computers.ibm-pc
Subject: DRDOS+SSTOR BOOTING
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1992 00:26:03 +1000

Can anybody help me? My operating system is DRDOS 6 and I've
just installed the SuperStor disk compressor on my hard drive
and I can't seem to make a bootable floppy!  Everytime I try
to access the hard drive,after booting from the floppy the
message I receive is "Not Ready Reading Drive C: (ABORT RETRY,
FAIL)" Booting straight from the hard disk is no problem at
all.
 
Here is the list of things I done without success ...
Formatted a: with the /s switch from the compressed and the
uncompressed portion (D:).
 
SYS a: from c: AND d:
 
Copied the SSTORDRV.SYS ,DCONFIG.SYS and DEVSWAP.COM to a:
,to load up SSTORDRV.SYS.
 
Also loaded up EMM386.SYS from a: then SSTORDRV.SYS,
DEVSWAP.COM, from DCONFIG.SYS and CONFIG.SYS from drive a:
, and all different type of combinations. Is it possible??!!
 
The DRDOS manuals doesn't seem to help much. Any suggestions?
Has anyone been in this situation before?
 
Any replies will be most appreciated.
                              ....ROD


 * Origin: Spectrum Radio - Melbourne's ALL Band Radio BBS (3:634/393.0)

Newsgroups: aus.computers.ibm-pc
From: gnb@duke.bby.com.au (Gregory N. Bond)
Subject: Re: Cheap Aussie Printer
Organization: Burdett, Buckeridge & Young, Melbourne, Australia
	<J.Newman.149.717911947@icarus.curtin.edu.au>
	<1992Oct2.133503.3887@darwin.ntu.edu.au>
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 07:52:01 GMT


JsNO>   Dick Smith and AWA do make them, but they are not Australian any more.

What do you mean?  Dick Smith is owned by Woolworths, which is owned
by IEL, which is part of the Adsteam group which is effectivly owned
by the banks (mainly Australian).

And AWA is listed on the Australian stock exchange and has a huge
number of shareholders, almost all Australian (the two largest being
AMP and NRMA).  How much more Australian do you want?

Greg.
--
Gregory Bond <gnb@bby.com.au> Burdett Buckeridge & Young Ltd Melbourne Australia
``USL has never sold long distance.  You're going after the wrong men in black 
  hats.  (Or, in the case of Plan 9, black space suits)'' - Tom Limoncelli

Newsgroups: aus.computers.ibm-pc
From: adam@arcadia.mc.phillip.edu.au (Adam Eberbach)
Subject: Re: Reading Mac disk in PC?
Reply-To: adam@arcadia.mc.phillip.edu.au
Organization: Dept. Maths & Comp, RMIT ( Bundoora )
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 02:01:58 GMT

In article 9222@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au, s921574@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Kok Heng Chan) writes:
>Hi,
>
>I'm currently working on both Mac and PC, I wonder if any of you know of
>any device driver or software that can read Mac disk from IBM-PC disk drive ?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the Mac uses a variable-speed drive so it's
not possible to read a Mac in an IBM drive. I have geard rumors that it has been done
on an Amiga (AMAX II) but that involves additional hardware.
 
Good old Apple....naturally incompatible. You might have to buy a Mac Plus or something
cheap and use serial transfer.

>Bye.
>---
>kokheng        ...... Have a nice weekend ......
>Melb, Victoria

Adam Eberbach adam@arcadia.mc.phillip.edu.au
From: s871780@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Antony Suter)
Newsgroups: aus.computers.ibm-pc
Subject: 387 33Mhz for sale
Date: 2 Oct 92 01:39:58 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au

I have a Cyrix 387 chip for sale. I no longer own a 386 motherboard.
Speed is 33MHz and faster than an Intel 387. Price is $150.
Email below. Phone (03)7363603. Place Melbourne.
-- 
-  Antony Suter			[0] s871780@minyos.xx.rmit.edu.au  -
-  Melbourne, Australia		[1] antony@werple.pub.uu.oz.au	   -
-  "Call me Jack - stranger things have happened!"		   -
Newsgroups: aus.computers.ibm-pc
Subject: Re: Errors
From: nunn@nutmeg.ntu.edu.au (JsNO  BAR---NUNN)
Date: 29 Sep 92 12:45:53 +0900
Distribution: world
Organization: Information Technology, Northern Territory University

 Yepper,


  I brought a setup similar to yours last January. It is an Osborn 486-33,
with SVGA and thunder board.
  When I would fire it up cold, I would get "General Protection Faults" and
"System parity Errors". This would only happen in the mornings. After finally
convincing Osborn that there was something wrong with my machine, it was found
that my machine had a rook mother board in it. After it was replaced, everything
went ok. My guess is that the mother board could have been cracked, or just
moulded badly.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              JsNO BAR----NUNN
        "It's his last semester......give him a good pat on the back"
                                  DARWIN, NT
                          nunn@pandanus.cs.ntu.edu.au
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: aus.computers.ibm-pc
From: robertp@ausom.oz.au (Robert Pascale)
Subject: Re: Reading Mac disk in PC?
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 07:45:08 GMT
Organization: AUSOM - The Apple Users Society of Melbourne


>In article 9222@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au, s921574@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Kok Heng Chan) writes:
>>Hi,
>>
>>I'm currently working on both Mac and PC, I wonder if any of you know of
>>any device driver or software that can read Mac disk from IBM-PC disk drive ?
>>
>>Thanks in advance.
>>

>Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the Mac uses a variable-speed drive so it's
>not possible to read a Mac in an IBM drive. I have geard rumors that it has been done
>on an Amiga (AMAX II) but that involves additional hardware.
> 
>Good old Apple....naturally incompatible. You might have to buy a Mac Plus or something
>cheap and use serial transfer.

>Adam Eberbach adam@arcadia.mc.phillip.edu.au

You can use a program called MACINDOS which will read 1.44M disks (because
Apple were deciding that PC compatability was going to be important). It
will not however read 800K or 400K 3.5's. If you can't FTP the program
anywhere send me some mail at either of:

robertp%ausom.oz@sol.cc.deakin.oz.au
rpascale@phillip.edu.au
p9214305@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au 

and I'll send you a copy...


-- 
Robert Pascale, B.App.Sc, AACS, PCP | robertp%ausom.oz@sol.cc.deakin.oz.au
PO Box 8084          | Committee of Management, AUSOM   | Ph: +613 4789644
Northland Centre, VIC| Apple Users Society of Melbourne | Fax:+613 4704403
3072, Australia      | ---==>>Australia's Largest Apple User Group <<==---
Newsgroups: aus.computers.ibm-pc
From: ent197g@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Tony Chin)
Subject: Re: HELP WANTED - STACKER AND HIGH MEMORY.
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 05:01:58 GMT

In article <jason.717777572@coombs> jason@coombs.anu.edu.au (jason..) writes:
>10642633@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (PETER GILLESPIE) writes:
>
>
>>    I have installed the Stacker Disk Compression program on a DX386-40Mhz 
>>PC with 4 megs of extended memory. Using the /EMS switch I have reduced the 
>>size of the conventional memory resident portion of Stacker from 57Kb to 
>>27Kb. I redused this to 19Kb using the /NB switch.
>>    The manual says I should now be able to load this part of the program 
>>into upper memory using the DEVICEHIGH comand but of course it is refusing 
>>to go there. After removing all memory resident programs from my autoexec.
>>bat and config.sys files the MEM /C command tells me I have 32Kb of High 
>>Memory available but my 19kB Stacker program won't go there.
>>    Everything is configured correctly to put programs into the High Memory 
>>as I can do it with my other device drivers. Does Stacker use more than 
>>30kB when attempting to load into High Memory even though it is only 19Kb 
>>when loaded. I would appreciate any comments from anyone who has managed 
>>to place Stacker into High Memory.
>
>>Thanks
>
Just add a /m9 to the back your device=c:\emm386.exe line
it will give you 92kb of upper memory .
Stacker needs more than 19kb to initialise at the begining.
From: rob@contempt.brisnet.org.au (Rob Amos)
Newsgroups: aus.computers.ibm-pc,com.sys.ibm.pc.misc
Subject: Re: formatting 720K disks problem
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 20:59:49 +1000
Reply-To: rob%contempt%meteor@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au
Distribution: aus
Organization: Rob's pit of despair   >:-(

In <u906271.717434002@bruny> u906271@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Chris Chew) writes:
>sondhu@latcs2.lat.oz.au (Paul Sondhu) writes:
>>Can someone please tell me how to format a 720k DSDD disk on the PC?

>Do a "format <drive>: /f:720"
>720 for 720k
>1440 for 1.44M
>1.2 for 1.2M
>360 for 360k

My, my!!! Haven't we been coddled with DOS5! :-)

For those who insist on using the 'tried and tested' methods of a DOS
no higher than 3.30 (like at where I work) then you'll have to use
(DRIVE A: 720K disk format):

format a: /n:9 /t:80

Or, there are a number of EXCELLENT format programs, which auto-sense
what kind of drive you actually have, what BIOS has recorded as being
the drive type for each drive (the program will alert you to
discrepancies) as well as formatting to 'weird' specs, like 82 tracks
etc...  Where these are available from are beyond me, but I'm sure that
Lord FTP will provide all to those who look.


-- 
__________________________________________________________________
This is where it ends     _  _  [_     Rob Amos
There ain't no more      [  (_) [_)    rob%contempt%meteor@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au
                                       Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
From: cej@dstos3.dsto.gov.au
Newsgroups: aus.computers.ibm-pc
Subject: Re: Reading Mac disk in PC?
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:22:01 GMT
Organization: Defence Science and Technology Organisation

In article <1992Sep28.020158.20831@newshost.anu.edu.au>, adam@arcadia.mc.phillip.edu.au (Adam Eberbach) writes:
> In article 9222@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au, s921574@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Kok Heng Chan) writes:
>>Hi,
>>
>>I'm currently working on both Mac and PC, I wonder if any of you know of
>>any device driver or software that can read Mac disk from IBM-PC disk drive ?
>>
>>Thanks in advance.
>>
>
> Someone correct me if I'm wrong,

Well you are as there is something that will do it.
Write to pacmicro@portal.cup (or cup.portal ?) to get info on a commercial
product that will r/w Mac 1.44 mb (only) disks. Dos and Windows versions are
available.

--
Chris Jones                                  E-mail: cej@dstos3.dsto.gov.au
CSS/CD/ERL                                    Phone: +61 8 259 6758
DSTO Salisbury, South Australia                 Fax: +61 8 259 6328

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are purely personal and do NOT represent
            the official view of DSTO.

"I'm going to put the shame file in the sludge file!  Or is that the sludge
 file in the shame file? Shame, sludge, sludge, shame, ...
 That's life, get nicked.."   Derrin Hunch, Fast Forward
Newsgroups: aus.computers.ibm-pc