HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
Subject: Re: A Strand of Bigotry
Date: 20 Nov 92 00:31:50 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Nov19.052244.18536@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, gsh7w@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Hennessy) writes:
> In article <13256@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# #The homosexual fascist lobby won't -- that's why they insist on
# #laws regulating private actions between consenting adults.
# 
# Why do you continue to delete my points and blandly repeat challenged
# statements. 
# 
# There is disagreement that walking into a Hiton hotel and trying to
# rent a room is a "private" action between consenting adults. 

You mean like there is disagreement about whether two adults
having sex in their bedroom is a "private" action?  Big Government
sorts always engage in your sort of game to justify government
intervention into private affairs.  You just want them to
intervene when YOU want them to, but leave you alone when OTHER
people want them to intervene.  Hands off.

# And you have not responded to the point that there are no absolute
# rights, and there are conflicts between your right to choose who you
# rent to, and the minorities right to be able to rent a house.
# 
# -Greg Hennessy, University of Virginia

No absolute rights?  Does that mean that if the government decides
that homosexual sex is a threat to public safety, it can ban it?
It doesn't matter if they are right or wrong about the facts, 
you have just decided that IF they make that decision, there are
no rights that the majority need respect.

You are the best example of why liberalism is fascism.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
We could say that Congress spends money like drunken sailors.  But that would
be unfair -- to the sailors.  They, at least, are spending their own money.
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Date: 18 Nov 1992 13:40:12 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Nov18.200956.10265@tc.cornell.edu> 
shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:

> Absolutely not, and I really hate the professionalization
> of arts programs in general (I don't agree with Arne's
> assertion that these programs are necessarily professional,
> having been through a rather thorough arts education,
> myself).  

I don't think these programs are *necessarily* professional.  
That is the way things are going these days, though, and I 
understand the reasons being advanced for the change.  The 
better college performing arts programs are slowly giving up
the pretence that they're academic, and instead are trying
to structure themselves along conservatory lines.  That they
don't have the freedom to this -- college students have to
take general education courses, after all -- has led to the
fairly rigid professional programs that you, and I, don't like.
In any case, I think it's absurd to offer acting majors on
the undergraduate level.  If you want to study acting
intensely, study at the Neighborhood Playhouse, or HB, or
the Lee Strasberg Institute, or at ACT, or at any number
of other places.

> The issue is somewhat deeper, too, than I think what has
> been discussed here has reflected.  CMU's decision, even if
> not overtly discriminatory, buys into and perpetuates a
> fairly perverse notion of what an ordinary or generic
> person is.

Yeah, so?  Extraordinary, unusual actors DO get work, with
or without the benefit of a diploma from Carnegie Mellon.
And it is training at Carnegie Mellon, rather than acting
in the real world, that is at issue.  Should we also start
screaming about the horrible (and I'm beginning to fear
irreversible) effects that professional writing programs 
(such as Iowa's) have had on contemporary fiction?  

Arne

Xref: sparky soc.motss:48819 alt.politics.homosexuality:7515 co.politics:2307 co.general:1975 talk.politics.misc:61291 co.politics.amend2.discuss:119 boulder.general:1118
From: jon@Turing.ORG (Jon Gefaell (KD4CQY))
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics,co.general,talk.politics.misc,co.politics.amend2.discuss,boulder.general,csu.general
Subject: Re: Support the boycott (was Re: Don't boycott all of Colorado)
Date: 22 Nov 92 17:55:56 GMT
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.

My understanding is that the law regarding 'defacing of money' or whatever
changed significantly 10 years or so ago.. You are now perfectly alright to
make jewelry and other things with honest to goodness real money. I think
that applies to 'Gay Money' stamps... I've decided I'm going to get one and
stamp every bill I get my hands on.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Cheese-Louise
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 06:43:45 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.022340.25943@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>As for dietary weirdness, I've not run into many people who
>drink aloe vera gel regularly, which I do to the tune of
>about an ounce daily (in OJ).

Isn't this what my grandmum used to call a 'physic'?
What's the matter with prune juice?

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: RE: Cheese-Louise
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:43:32 GMT

In article <18NOV92.19074532@enh.nist.gov>, aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
> In a previous article, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) wrote:
> >I like the idea of sitting on the beach at Ecola state park with a
> >basket full of warm baguettes, brie, gouda, maybe some feta cheese.
> >Add in the plump purple grapes and the red and white wines, and we've
> >got a fine picnic! Why didn't we think of this before?
> 
> Nelson!  How could you possibly have forgotten the mangoes?

From what I hear, I don't think the scene with the mangoes could be
replayed in the same fashion in March. Not comfortably, anyway.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Hate Crime (was Re: "Gay-Bashing")
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 03:08:37 GMT


In article <46136@ogicse.ogi.edu> markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark
Morrissey) writes:


>In article <BxyCuE.AB@nic.umass.edu>
>quilty@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Humberto Humbertoldi) writes:

>>I really don't think there SHOULD be specific laws against
>>"gay-bashing," nor any of the other "hate-crimes" type laws which are
>>popping up relative to other categories victims (race, sex, religion,
>>etc.).
>>[...]  This seems like a fundemental abridgement of rights to free
>>expression of belief, or even to simply BELIEVE a belief.  

>Excuse me.  I know that further on you say things like
>"assault is assault", but the above statement makes me
>believe that you feel that gay bashing is a protected form
>of expression.

I think you deleted too much of the context, Mark.  His
point was not to sanction violent *acts* against anyone, but
rather to assert that even hateful *beliefs* cannot be
criminalized.

>How can the existence of hate crime statutes be an
>abridgement of the rights to free expression of belief?

Some so-called hate crime statutes punish not acts of
violence but rather acts of speech.  Although most of those
tested so far in the courts have been struck down as
unconstitutional, this seems very likely to change in the
near future.  He's saying, in effect, that this would be a
very bad thing, and I must agree.

>[...]

>I suggest a good class or book in social justice as a
>starting point for understanding the need for recognizing
>specialty crimes against humanity - of which hate crimes are
>an example.  Your claim that these crimes are "just assault"
>is an attempt to diminish the special circumstances of the
>crime and diminish the victims as well.

You're right, I think, that there is much to study.  For an
uncomfortable read, I suggest the newly published book by
Nat Hentoff, _Free Speech for Me, But Not for Thee: How the
American Left and Right Relentlessly Censor Each Other_
(HarperCollins, $25).

<> You can fool too many of the people too much of the time.
<> -- James Thurber
-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
From: mjs@fc.hp.com (Marc Sabatella)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Reply-To: marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:32:50 GMT

Greg Woods (woods@claven.ucar.edu) wrote:
: 
: I think we're getting into some legal technicalities here, but I still
: don't think that Amendment #2 says anything that would force the
: state to discriminate against gays, nor even anything that would say
: they can't set an internal policy against such discrimination.

Certainly not the former; and I never claimed otherwise.

: All it
: says is that they cannot put this into law. But a state law and an internal
: policy of state goverment are different things. I don't think that Amendment
: 2 as written says anything about the latter.

Check out the following extract

    Neither the State of Colorado, through any of its branches ...
    shall ... enforce any ... policy whereby homosexual ... orientation ...
    shall ... be the basis of ... any ... claim of discrimination.

Sounds to me like "the executive branch of the State government cannot enforce
any policy that would give homosexuals any basis for a claim of
discrimination".  So Roy can talk all he wants about the State not
discriminating against homosexuals, but if anyone in his employ does in fact
discriminate against a gay person, I don't see what can be done about it from
the gay person's perspective.  On the other hand, the amendment does seem to
allow Romer the leeway to fire the employee who discriminated, which might have
the desired effect.

--
Marc Sabatella
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
--
Amendment 2 Is Legalized Discrimination - Shame On You, Colorado
--
"Neither the State of Colorado ... nor any of its municipalities ... shall ...
 enforce any ... ordinance ... whereby homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual
 orientation ... shall ... be the basis of ... any ... claim of discrimination"
--
All opinions expressed herein are my personal ones
and do not necessarily reflect those of HP or anyone else.
From: mickw@autodesk.com (Mick Washbrook)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:34:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.205511.5003@quantime.co.uk>, roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips) writes:
> 
> The lesbian removal company
> which moved us into this current flat
> was called Sister George.
> (Sadly, I hear they've gone out of business since.)

I hear working for them was *murder*.


--
Death to all fanatics!!

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Subject: Re: Babs calls fro Colorado Boycott
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.1 PL5
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:32:43 GMT

John Dorrance (thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu) wrote:

> .... I'm just 2nd generation queer, is all. 

Susan B. Anthony, Walt Whitman, Sappho, Socrates, and the Iceman are
all spinning in their graves. 

Mike Drayton      mdrayton@sr.hp.com       Hewlett-Packard Co.
                                           Santa Rosa, California
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: Josh Simon <jsimon@convex.COM>
Subject: Re: U. of Michigan and Indiana U. Nondiscrimination Policies
Originator: jsimon@sushi.convex.com
Reply-To: jsimon@convex.COM (Josh Simon)
Cc: indole@mace.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:47:00 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <Bxxr1A.5uI@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> indole@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Matthew Parker) writes:
>First:  The current University of Michigan nondiscrimination statement makes
>no mention of sexual orientation.  What is the status of efforts to have
>sexual orientation included?

There is a University of Michigan Presidential Statement which prohibits
discrimination based on sexual orientation, so the Regents of the Undiversity
(especially Mr. Homophobe Himself, Deane Baker) refuse to add it to the bylaws.

The Statement was drafted by then-President Harold Shapiro, and was reaffirmed
by President Duderstadt.

-j
 LSA/90
-- 
============================================================================
= Josh Simon / Convex Computer / 3000 Waterview Pkwy / Richardson TX 75083 =
= jsimon@convex.com / userJSS@umichum.bitnet / {...}!uiucuxc!convex!jsimon =
============================================================================
From: vicki@steam.atd.ucar.edu (Vicki Holzhauer)
Subject: Re: gayfolk and cats
Organization: Atmospheric Technology Division/NCAR Boulder, CO
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:10:35 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.192525.1041@dunix.drake.edu> ac94691@dunix.drake.edu (The Dark Kitty) writes:

>A friend of mind who posts here occasionally has gone so far as to
>pick boyfriends on the basis of whether or not they like cats.  It's
>actually quite reasonable.  A love for a particular type of animal
>does reveal basic personality traits.


"Occasionally has gone so far"?  Hell, that's my number one criterion!
I see no reason to even bother having coffee with a man who doesn't
like cats (or who is allergic to them).  I'd far rather exist without
a relationship than get involved with someone who would even dare to
suggest that I get rid of my two beautiful, furry daughters ... :-)




--
Vicki Holzhauer, National Center for Atmospheric Research
Boulder, Colorado / / / /  vicki@ncar.ucar.edu
From: jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein
Date: 17 Nov 92 19:25:58 GMT
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyles, Inc.


Matthew Melmon (mattm@apple.com) wrote:
 
> Are you sure?  Isn't Tomlin the one who did the operator (One wingy
> dingy...  Two wingy dingy...)  I thought she was Babawa Wawa.  But,
> if not, I shall amend the statement: 
> 
>   As per Gilda Radner's fabu spoof...

Consider it amended.

[Yes, Tomlin did the operator, but it was "ringy dingy",
 and that was "Laugh-In" anyway.]

> (Who was Rosane, Rosanna Danna?  I thought that was Gilda...)

Yes....  What?  As though Gilda wasn't talented
enough for *two* roles?

--jns
From: markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: bear vs. twink
Date: 21 Nov 92 18:46:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.46203
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

In article <1992Nov20.173840.24054@oracle.us.oracle.com> dgilly@us.oracle.com (Daniel Gilly) writes:
>In article <46140@ogicse.ogi.edu> markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:
>>
>>I subscribe to the "wine" theory of attraction:
>>
>>  I don't care what it says on the label, 
>
>As long as it has a penis, right?

There is all kinds of attractions.  I am attracted to many, many of the
people on our local maillist, pdx-motss, not because of any penis thing,
but because of what's on the inside.  I require much, much more than a
penis to be happy in my life, thank you very much.

However, I must admit that the penis-thing (would George Bush say
that?) is probably a requirement for some forms ofsexual attraction.
Not to say that I am not attracted to the sexuality in my many
wonderful female friends.  No, I would never say that.  It is part of
the reason that I cherish them so.  Especially my pdx-motss-mom and my
pdx-motss-sisters (who have even offered to let me borrow clothes and
shop with them at Nordies!).

So, that wine theory still holds, even if I'm not holding a penis.

--mark
--
Mark Morrissey           One Hatred to rule them all.  One Hatred to find them.
markm@cse.ogi.edu        One Hatred to bring them all and in the darkness bind
                         them.  In the land of Bigotry where the Shadows lie.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: Bears and Lookism (was: Marky Mark)
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:52:45 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.233802.6861@psych.toronto.edu> paul@psych.toronto.edu (Paul Hastings) writes:
>In article <BxxFB0.91H@cck.coventry.ac.uk> idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov17.213558.4677@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca> aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca writes:
>>>Interesting discussion. How about the perspective of someone who is ugly?  
>>But first you'll have to find someone who'll come out as ugly...
>NEVER!

I don't know.  I guess there are people out there who think I'm ugly.
Fine.  So I'm ugly to them?  Whoop-de-doo.  The most wonderful guy
in the world thinks I'm beautiful...

>>Cruel?  I don't think so.  One has to accept that, whatever one's looks,
>>some people are going to swoon over them, most will be indifferent, and
>>some will go Ug. 
>
>Speak for yourself, Hon.

I did.  I can't believe in universal, culture-invariant beauty or
ugliness, and therefore it seems entirely rational to assume the
trichotomy above - and, no, for the wordfetishists, trichotomy doesn't
mean "hair-splitting" :)

>>In plainer words: if he has set himself up to sell his visual
>>attractiveness, then his attractiveness (or lack of it) is a matter for
>>fair public comment.  This, I'd say, would include utterances like Ug
>>as much as those like Yum.
>
>...which you follow with...
>
>>6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
>
>Yum so far, child.

Child?  Insofar as I am my parents' progeny, I am a child.  Sometimes
I may behave in a childlike way.  But, for your information, I'm past
the years of puberty, and "child" hardly feels like an appropriate
epithet - unless you happen to be old enough to be my Daddy :)
Thank you for the Yum, however.

>Brian dear, set up your fab system and lets delve into the pix.  
>Let's see if Kay lives up to the trailers.

Oh, get kay-and-justin.gif (or whatever) from the archives on spdcc.com.
Admittedly you won't see much of me; I'm mostly obscured by my lover,
my sunhat, my sunglasses, and my then beard.  So you'll have to take
most of that information on trust.

>>Kay Dekker
>Deck 'er?  Why, we haven't even been formally introduced.

How remiss of me.  Now: what would Miss Manners say?  Is the elder
to be introduced first to the younger, or vice versa?  And which of
us is which?  Putting my social graces on the line...

Mr Hastings, I'd like you to meet Mr Dekker.  Mr Dekker, this is
Mr Hastings.  I'm sure you two will love each others' company.  Now,
you must excuse me; there's a twink throwing up in the corner...

Feel better?

				Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly)
Subject: Re: Surly French waiters
Date: 23 Nov 92 04:08:04 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
	<1992Nov21.212619.29280@microsoft.com>
	<1992Nov22.064029.2316@macc.wisc.edu>

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
) frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney) writes:
) >In article <nosenseofirony@kaa.gr.osf.org>
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

) >emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:
) >>So Frenchmen are naturally surly, are they?  Well I suppose it might
) >>seem that way to Americans, stupid and vulgar as they are.

) >I must say I am disappointed in Eamonn for succumbing to the
) >very natural urge to say something nasty to the m-person by
) >heaping calumny on the other 300 million of us. I know I am
) >neither stupid nor vulgar, and and I am an American.

Frank, mon vieux, take another look at the message-id of
Eamonn's article, which I have highlighted above.

) I think you've missed the essence of Eamonn's point, Frank.
) I took him to be showing how ignorant the Francophobic
) remark was by making a comparable slur about Americans.
) Americans offended by the throught he expresses would then
) maybe make the connection to how offensive the remark about
) the waiter was, for *that* was the truly stupid and vulgar
) remark.

Exactement.

) <> Dustin Pons, an American high-school student who attended a
) <> Soviet school for three weeks, as quoted in the New York Times:
) <> "American teenagers are more socially advanced.  For instance,
) <> in their free time Soviets would rather read a book or walk in
) <> the park or play the piano.  American teenagers would probably
) <> go out and watch TV, go to a movie, or something more actively
) <> inclined." -- "The Progressive"

Is Dustin related to Pons Asinorum, perchance?
________________
George V. Reilly   <GeorgeRe@Microsoft.Com>
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me about this TV show?
Keywords: Are You Being Served?
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:36:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: bu.102159
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <1992Nov15.235857.16298@spdcc.com>
dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>The US seems to be flooded by _AYBS_ reruns via PBS (and therefore by the
>National Endowment for the Arts.) :-)  It's on every night of the week
>here in Boston at 11PM.  It's a good example of British low humor.  We
		^^^^^^^
>watched it for a few weeks, but it's pretty uneven (and from the few times
>I've seen it since, I suspect it got more so as the show progressed.)

Actually, the flooding is greater than you think, at least in Boston.
The same episode is shown TWICE each weeknight, at 7:30 and 11. I was
fascinated by it at first, but now it's quite a yawner, with the notable
exception of the excitement brought to me by the constantly changing
hair color of one character "Mrs Slocombe".

Talk about "Rainbow Rinses"!

Brian
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus)
Subject: Re: Telephone surveys
Organization: Open Software Foundation Research Institute, Grenoble
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 10:50:04 GMT

scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker) writes:
[emcmanus:]
>>First of all, how can you
>>tell that your results are accurate to "within about three
>>percent"?  I see no way to check apart from other surveys with
>>the same assumptions about accuracy.
>One can never tell that a statistical sample is accurate within 3%.
>One can mathematically determine that, given the population size and a
>(truely random) sample, that there is a X% chance that 
>the survey is within Y% accuracy.

I think what you are saying is that you can mathematically determine
how likely your results are to have a certain accuracy relative to the
results you would get if you surveyed the population as a whole.  But
my point is that there is no way of knowing how this compares with the
true proportions.  In some surveys this is not too important because
you have some independent means of confirmation.  For instance if you
ask people how they are going to vote in an election, you can later
compare your results with the actual outcome of the election.

But this is particularly a problem when asking about homosexuality
because we know lots of people (like a former you and indeed a former
me) will lie; we don't know and can't know how many such people there
are, short of taking readings on the hypothetical Kinsometer.

,
Eamonn
name no one man
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc