HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: miklg@acuson.com (Michael Goldman )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Please give your opinions...
Date: 13 Nov 92 14:45:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: acuson.1992Nov13.144554.13384
Organization: Acuson; Mountain View, California

>>In article <1992Nov12.004808.17045@u.washington.edu>, 
>>tvp@gibdo.engr.washington.edu writes:
>> 
>>=> In any case, Japanese people are going to lose this argument in the
>>=> long run, because the minority always decides what it finds offensive
>>=> and, out of sensitivity, the majority usually gives way and tries to
>>=> accomodate the minority opinion so as to decrease tensions.

>In article <7445@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com>,
>blamb@hri.com (Bill Lambert) writes:
>>
>>Reasonable analysis, Tad. I think that within one language, your last
>>point is true. But it is a little crazy when people try to enforce
>>standards on another language. 

	It is perfectly reasonable and in fact is done w.r.t. English.
	We do not call Japanese "Jap" because _Japanese_ as well as
	Americans of Japanese origin do not wish us to.  There were
	and are plenty of people who view(ed) "Jap" as one might
	"Yank" but we must respect the wishes of the addressee.

	It is anyone's perfect right to (politely) say "Please do
	not refer to me by the name <whatever>.  I prefer to be
	called <otherwise>."  To fail to respect such a request is
	rude in the extreme and anyone who refuses such a request
	can be ignored as one would ignore an American who uses the
	term "Jap", or "kike", or "nigra", etc.

	People politely ask me whether I prefer to be called "Mike"
	or "Michael" - such politeness can be asked of others, as
	well.

	- Michael Goldman

-- 
"History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have
exhausted all other alternatives." - Abba Eban
	Disclaimer:  All views are solely my own & not the views of Acuson.
	<sun!sono!miklg>  or  [miklg@acuson.com]
From: ee152fdm@sdcc15.ucsd.edu (Maiko Covington)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: 50th Anniversary of Japanese Amer. Internment
Date: 11 Nov 92 05:22:21 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

Mou... atama kityatta yo... I have been reading your posts on here
for quite a while now, Mr. Asano, and I have just one question: Why
are you so &^%$%^ racist???? You keep saying all sorts of racist
comments about caucasian people. Is this somehow different than
being racist against Asian people? I certainly don't think so. You
seem to have the tendency to judge all people of one race by those
whom you happen to have met. This is a real peeve.

		Maiko (pulls up asbestos underwear)

Xref: sparky soc.culture.japan:10393 talk.politics.guns:23814
From: masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: A Japanese student killed in Lousiana
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:55:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: ncifcrf.BxH3t2.EAA
Organization: Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center

In article <viking.721290408@vincent2.iastate.edu> viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes:
>masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda) writes:

>>   However, if your neighbors start to practice shooting in their
>>back yard and might miss the target and shoot into your back yard, wouldn't
>>you want them to stop it? Wouldn't you think that they should go to a
>>shooting range to take the education first?

>	No.  I think it's a problem between them and I, period.  It is not
>a problem that requires pre-emptive disarming of my neighbors, nor does it
>need to involve the police or government.  In addition, it is entirely
>likely that we will reach a compromise that does not inconvenience us.

   Ok, I've got your point.

   Probably, this is another cultural difference between the US and Japan.
It seems that Japanese tend to try to solve the personal conflict through
some intermediary which could be a landlord of the apartment, a supervisor
at work, a common friend of both parties, the police, the government or 
anything else. This true especially wfor the conflict between those who
might have to keep some relationship after it is solved (e.g., colleagues,
neighbors, etc.) because a direct interaction could cause even a larger
conflict after the original problem is gone.

   If the most cases of conflict of personal rights can be settled 
successfully between the involved persons in the US, I see a point in 
your saying that the involvement of neither the police nor government
is necessary.

>>   As I understand it, we cannot carry a weapon in the commercial airflight.
>>Despite the security system, it IS possible to have a hijacker in our
>>flight. We should have a right to be prepared to protect ourselves from
>>a possible hijacker, but they don't allow us to do it.
>>I wonder what their rationale to enforce this is.

>	De-pressurization at 30,000 feet due to accidental discharge being
>greater than the chances of a hijacker sneaking aboard?

  Is this your answer or question?

>>   I don't think I ever said or tried to say that the shooter is guilty.
>>I was just trying to protect the deceased from those who might or did blame
>>him making, "It is reasonable for him to have been killed if he made a 
>>mistake without knowing the American way"-type of comments.

>	I don't think the victim needs protection.

  I'm not sure if this is the appropriate word or not, but it sounds
"cruel" unless he deserves the blame. It's just my feeling, and I
don't think that you are trying to prevent me from protecting him.

>  What matters now is
>whether the shooter was justified or not.  What the victim did or did
>not think is rendered moot by his intimely demise.

   Not really. At least, some people can learn from what he might or might 
not think. Letting his tragedic death tell something is not completely
useless.

Michiaki Masuda
From: si0l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Soshi Iba)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: WORMS? (was Re: new newsgroup)
Date: 14 Nov 92 05:17:11 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

No, nobody argue on the statement

>.... opened the same kind of can of worms that occurs when the
>Chinese/Taiwanese/Koreans jump in from time to time. Me? I admit
>I am one those trying to put the worms back in their can, but
>I'm going to give up as there are just too many damn worms.

was not because the readers of s.c.j. have accepted this statement,
rather, my guess is that not many people are reading article on "new
newsgroup" and "Japanese exchange student ...." anymore.  Articles on
these topics just takes too much time to read, and many avoid reading
them.

So, don't feel offended by the fact that nobody mentioned this before
you did.  Of course the statement is not the generally accepted view on
s.c.j.

soshi
Xref: sparky soc.culture.japan:10391 talk.politics.guns:23812
From: doi@jrd.dec.com (Hitoshi Doi)
Subject: Re: Economy
Organization: DEC Japan Research and Development Center
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:39:11 GMT

In article <BxKo5p.J81@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:
# 
# 	Someone told me that Japan was going through a recession not
# unlike the one in the US - falling property prices, bad loans, and
# falling industrial production (someone said it was off by almost
# 8%!!) and that Masushita announced LAYOFFS?!?

It is pretty bad now.

# 	Could someone straighten me out on the economic situation
# in Japan?  What people are feeling?  Is recovery in sight?  Employment
# and hiring?  

Recently many companies have announced that the year-end bonus
will be significantly lower than before.  NEC has even said that
they will give vouchers for NEC products instead of money to
it's management class.  (I think it's both money and vouchers.)

I hope my bonus doesn't get reduced..

--
Hitoshi Doi, International Open Systems Engineering        doi@jrd.dec.com
Japan Research and Development Center               decwrl!jrd.dec.com!doi
Digital Equipment Corporation Japan          [from Japan: doi@dec-j.co.jp]
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: vasco@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (Vasco Vasconcelos)
Subject: Tokyo.  November 12, 1992.  One year after the Santa Cruz massacre
Organization: Tokoro lab., Keio Univ., Hiyoshi, Yokohama, Japan.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 05:04:47 GMT





Please notice the following three events to be held in Tokyo, on
Thursday November 12, one year after the Santa Cruz Cemetery massacre,
in Dili, East-Timor.  Recall that on November 12 1991, more than 100
East-Timoreese were brutally killed by the Indonesian Military Forces.
Also recall that Japan is the largest financial supporter of the
Indonesian regimen.


**********************************************************************

			PRESS CONFERENCE

Date:
        November 12 (Thursday), 11:00
Place:
	To be decided

East-timoreese Participants:
	Ana Inacio (living in Darwin, Australia)
	Veverian dos Reis (living in Sidney, Australia)
        Ligia Ximenes (living in Portugal)
Note:
	A declaration on ``Japanese citizens for democracy in
	Indonesia'' will be distributed in four languages (Japanese,
	Bahasa, English and Portuguese)


**********************************************************************

			DEMONSTRATION

		``We haven't forget Santa Cruz''
	      Mourning for the Santa Cruz massacre.

Meeting Time:
	November 12 (Thursday), 14:30 (to be held even in case of rain)

Meeting Place:
	Gotanda Koen (park), or Gotanda Sta-East exit until 14:30

Route:
	Gotanda Koen, Embassy of Indonesia, Meguro Station

Organization:
	Tokyo-East Timor Association
	Amnisty International-Japan


**********************************************************************

			JOINT ACTION
	EAST TIMOR ASSOCIATION - AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL

	   ``One year since the Santa Cruz massacre''

Date:
	November 12 (Thursday), 18:30~20:30
Place:
	University of Sophia, 3th Building, room 521
	3 minutes walking from the JR Chuo line, Yotsuya sta.
Fee:
	500 yen

Panelists:
	Kiyoko Furusawa	(Tokyo-East Timor Association)
	Yoko Iwamura	(Amnisty International-Japan)

East-timoreese Guests:
	Ana Inacio (living in Darwin, Australia)
	Veverian dos Reis (living in Sidney, Australia)
	Ligia Ximenes (living in Portugal)

Organization:
	University of Sophia Amnesty Group
Cooperation:
	Tokyo-East Timor Association
	Amnesty International-Japan

**********************************************************************


...........................................................
Vasco Thudichum Vasconcelos	     vasco@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp
Keio University  Department of Computer Science  Tokoro Lab
3-14-1  Hiyoshi  Kohoku-ku	Yokohama  223	      JAPAN
Phone:  +81-45-5601150/60	       FAX:  +81-45-5601151
...........................................................
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: jfriedl+@CS.CMU.EDU (Jeffrey Friedl)
Subject: Re: Please give your opinions...
Reply-To: jfriedl@cs.cmu.edu
Organization: Carnegie Mellon / Omron Corporation
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:43:36 GMT

masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov (Michiaki Masuda) writes:
|> The reason why I've been trying to correct the wrong "gaijin" myth is that
|> this misunderstanding could cause an unnecessary conflict between innocent 
|> foreigners and innocent Japanese. 
|>    If you can tell the intention of the speakers from their attitude or
|> voice, it might be better not to attach a biased nuance to a "neutral" word 
|> beforehand. More simply, tell your friends to be offended when Japanese
|> showed a condescending attitude instead of telling them to be offended when
|> Japanese use the word "gaijin" to them.

*Excellently* excellently said.

I have been called "gaijin-san" by people that later came to be close
friends.  Had I had some preconceived notion that they were attempting to be
rude when they truely weren't, the chance for friendship might have been
closed off.

Someone can be very kind, yet still use "gaijin" and/or "gainji-san".
Similarly, someone can be very rude while still using "gaikokujin",
"amerikajin" (or whatever), your proper name, etc.  In these cases,
the rudeness is in the intonation and attitude, not the word.

	*jeff*
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey Eric Francis Friedl   jfriedl@cs.cmu.edu -or- jfriedl@omron.co.jp
Omron Corporation, Section RZC, Shimokaiinji, Nagaokakyo Kyoto 617, Japan
Visiting researcher to the Mach Project, Carnegie Mellon University
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: hiraga@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Yuzuru Hiraga)
Subject: Re: new newsgroup discussion (& Re: Japan/US comparison)
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 10:42:01 GMT


First, a long overdue public reply (a personal reply was given much earlier):

In article <HARKCOM.92Oct28153551@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp>
harkcom@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Alton Harkcom) writes:
>
>   Not to be a nit picker, but Mr. Hiraga seems to have started using the
>same tricks that his adversary used...

This was against my sarcastic reply to Mr.Dwight Joe (as I noted in my
later post).
I hereby express my apologies to Mr.Harkcom (and others that felt the
same way) if I generated that impression, and ask to understand my
lines as sarcasm.

I believe many of you would have no idea of what I am talking about.
But since the articles are now outdated, I shall not repeat here the
whole incident, though for those who are interested, I'll be happy
to send the details by e-mail.

-------
So.
It happens that for these few weeks, our site has been having all
conceivable types of newsfeed trouble (news not coming in/ not going out,
disk overflow, network trouble...) ending in a total blackout for
over a week.

During that period, there seems to been a discussion led by Mr.Mark Crispin
on splitting/reorganizing the newsgroup.

My personal opinion is that there is no need for change right now:
* the amuont of postings, as well as the S/N ratio is still within
  tolerable range (observing that even groups like soc.culture.china
  seem to live up with it :-)
* mail-lists/moderation should be used positively to promote particular
  topics, rather than as preventive action,
* division into subgroups will cause confusion in selecting the appropriate
  group, invoke excessive cross-posting, and won't improve the overall
  S/N ratio.

But no, I don't know what was going on for a week or so.
So my reaction might rather reflect that experience:
	noise-infested news is better than nothing
but of course,
	nothing is better than well-thought, informative news
ah! so by unrefutable syllogism --
	noise-infested news is better than well-thought, informative news.

# No, I'm not the one who made this up.

-Yuzuru Hiraga
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,talk.politics.guns
From: donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin)
Subject: Re: A Japanese student killed in Lousiana
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 18:55:42 GMT

In article <Bx81r9.HI9@ncifcrf.gov> masuda@fcs280b.ncifcrf.gov
(Michiaki Masuda) writes:
>   "Karate" can kill people. There was a graduate student in my friend's
>lab. The guy was a good karate practician -- I mean, VERY good. He
>has never drunk alcohol even at a party or other socializing occasions.
>My friend once asked him why he didn't drink. He answered, "I could kill
>someone with this (showing his fist) if I'm drunk and I cannot control
>its power." Yes, I agree that a spontaneous inner motivation towards respect
>and caution is important.

Did he have to pass a government test before he was allowed to learn those
skills???

(I hope his government never bans HIS weapons!)

For your information, I studied Karate for several years (to ni-kyu),
Aikido for most of a year and have owned a gun for 6 years.  In all
that time, I have never hurt anybody.  And the government didn't even
give me permission to do all that...how dangerous!

    don
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        We should measure progress not by how many laws can
        be passed but by how little governing people need.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Baldwin  -  Software Engineer  - e-mail to:  donb@tamri.com
From: smittie@beach.csulb.edu (Smittie)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Yoshi Hattori
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:56:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: tui.SMITTIE.92Nov9115628
	<1992Nov9.155544.1348@island.COM>
Organization: Cal State Long Beach

>Don't know about how safe anyone feels, but the remorse felt by the shooter
>probably *is* important to Hattori's parents. That seems to play a very
>important role in the Japanese criminal/legal system; that someone who committs
>an act that causes someone else to suffer plainly indicate his/her sincere
>sorrow at the incident, without necessarily admitting guilt or innocence.

Good point Mike, I hadn't really thought about that.

smittie
--
___________________________________________________________________________
GEnie, MCI, AOL:Smittie   All of these accounts except MCI will die on or
smittie@beach.csulb.edu   about Dec 31. UNIX will be forwarded for 2 weeks.
___________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: cmr@world.std.com (Charles M Richmond)
Subject: Re: call for a new newsgroup
Organization: Integrated International Systems Corp. One Longfellow Place, Suite 3309, Boston, Ma.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 12:10:57 GMT

a7657@mindlink.bc.ca (Stephen H. Kawamoto) writes:

>Here! Here!
>At first I was interested, and mindlessly snarfed the message flow but after
>200K of the same old song and dance, I have stopped making a record of the
>arguments. Instead, I look for such things as nichiren militants, pop songs,
> and anything related to contemporary culture in Japan.
> I'm also happy this BBS has an IGNORE feature



While the extremely intolerant Asano-kun can be taken care of by a kill file,
I have a better idea for the endless gun control chatter.


Each time that you see a "gun" post here on S.C.J use the "r" key and send it
by email back to the offending poster!!! Their own drivel multiplied 50 times
in their mail box might just convince them to move the discusion to 
talk.politics.guns , where it belongs. 


Charlie 
-- 
*****************************************************************************
*  Charles Richmond 	Integrated International Systems Corporation        *
*  cmr@world.std.com	(Temporary) cmr@koneko.shr.dec.com		    *
*  Specializing in UNIX, X, Image Processing, and Communications.           *
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: a7657@mindlink.bc.ca (Stephen H. Kawamoto)
Subject: Re: kanji on Star Trek TNG
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 23:01:09 GMT

RE: kei and yuri -- writers for TNG are manga fans.
The sport looks like KENDO. Were Ryker and Ryker Sr. wearing
masks that look not unlike fencing masks?

--
PGP 384/D7484F Stephen Kawamoto

a7657@mindlink.bc.ca.


UUENCODED on MIND LINK! Fri Oct 30 10:35:08 1992


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M_\''S?\
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Please give your opinions...
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:48:23 GMT

In article <40576@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ee152fdm@sdcc15.ucsd.edu (Maiko Covington) writes:
>When I am in the US, of course I do not write my name in katakana
>either. I write it in romaji, of course.
>	As far as "gaikokujin" vs. "gaijin" goes, the two words do
>not have a technical difference. But lots of people sense a
>difference in the attitude with which they are used. Bill Lambert is
>right - it's just the attitude with which a certain person uses the
>word. However, "gaikokujin" may sound better because that is the
>word used in all official documents so the nuances balance out.

The document I filled out usually used gaijin. Just another data point.

>	I HATE being called "gaijin-san". How would you like being
>called "Mr. Japanese", or "Mr. Alien"? It's the same thing. I

'san' does NOT mean Mr. or Ms. It is a simple honorific to make things a 
bit more polite. 

>personally have never been called "gaijin-san" in anything other
>than a condescending voice, or by people saying something like "see
>that other blond guy over there, you guys must know each other,
>huh?". I just think "gaijin-san" is a silly word, it sounds like a
>kid talking.

I've been called gaijin-san, gaikokujin-san, gaikokujin-sama, and several 
things less polite. No big deal.

>	I was amused to see that Narita airport has put up
>"foreigner" signs to replace the "alien" ones. Now if only LAX would
>do the same.. ^_^

I'd settle for polite immigration officers at LAX.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - I'm only doing what the little voices tell me to do. 
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: raki@cats.ucsc.edu (The Berkeley Berserker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: kanji on Star Trek TNG
Date: 8 Nov 1992 23:43:50 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
Distribution: soc
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


huttar@ief.itg.ti.com (Lars Huttar) writes:

>Lines: 22


>I don't know if this should be in soc.culture.japan or sci.lang.japan,
>but here goes anyway.

>Last Friday on Star Trek: The Next Generation, Ryker and his dad were
>doing some kind of male bonding combat game, and the armor they wore
>had 3 kanji on the chest plate: mizu (water), sora (air/sky), hi (fire).
>($B?e(J, $B6u(J, $B2P(J).  Does anyone know what the significance of this is?

>I didn't see the whole show this time, but if I remember right, they were
>hitting each other with long, padded sticks.
>Was this supposed to be derived from some Chinese or Japanese sport?
>Or hockey? :-)

>btw, they had them in opposite order -- one was mizu,sora,hi, the other
>was hi,sora,mizu.

>| |    Lars Huttar                          3
> \|/|  huttar@ief.itg.ti.com        ||   _______           ____      ||
>  |    (Opinions herein are not     ||:  |  |  |   |   |   |  |   | :||  Mars
>       necessarily those of TI.)    ||  _| _| _|  _|  _|  _| _|  _|  ||
>       $B7n$O6yED$N207AA%(J  (tsuki wa Sumida no yakatabune)

also, did you see the kanji that was on the platform that 
they were fighting on... I heard from a friend that the 
ones that were most prominant were kei, and yuri, names 
for those lovely angles, the dirty pair... *shrug*


Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,talk.politics.guns
From: jkapson@ad-29.Naitc.Com (John Kapson)
Subject: Re: Japanese exchange student killed in Louisiana...
Followup-To: talk.politics.guns
Organization: AC Nielsen Co., Bannockburn IL
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 21:15:01 GMT


----------------------------------------
NOTE: FOLLOWUP SET TO TALK.POLITICS.GUNS
----------------------------------------

In article <10NOV199221260689@vxcrna.cern.ch> ikeda@vxcrna.cern.ch (IKEDA,M./EP) writes:
[snip]
>Actually there has been a significant number of posts (at least initially
>when the incident was reported on scj) that strongly criticised the
>shooting.  What you are seeing is actually a microcosm of the US about
>the gun debate.  A very loud (or in the netnews sense, very fast typing)
>and aggressive group who are probably card-carrying NRA members use the
                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>natural fear of crime as way to encourage people in the US that any form
>of gun-control will take away the right for Americans to kill anyone from
>dangerous criminals to suspicious intruders to less-than-suspicious looking
>tuxedo-wearing boys.  You now see why gun-control advocates have such
>a difficult time in the US.
>
>-- Makoto

Just for the record, Makoto-kun, I -- a card-carrying NRA member -- was
one of the first people to criticize the shooting.  Perhaps you should
put your predjudices aside before you read netnews...

John Kapson   NRA ILA