From: steven@advtech.uswest.com ( Steve Novak)
Subject: Re: Reconciling OT with NT
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:32:49 GMT

> = (Samuel E Wiggins) writes:
>> = Steve Novak writes:
>>> = Scott @Brandeis:
>>>> = Mark McCullough writes:

>>>>How to reconcile the Old Testament God with the New Testament God, (they
>>>>do appear to be quite different):

>>>Let's see, in the OT God is portrayed as capable of unimaginable wrath and
>>>unimaginable love. 

>> ...and an unimaginable vengeful asshole who murdered whole cities because of
>> the sins of a few (including, for you crocodile tear-droppers, many
>>   "innocent babes" and other exalted types of human life).

>Nope.  For the sins of most.

Same goddamn point then, twit.  One non-sinner is one too many.  You
worship a murderer, face it.

>In some cities, though, He gave the opportunity
>for them to change their minds and turn back to Him and start being/doing
>right.  

Do you EVER stop and think?  If some supernatural being actually SPOKE
to a city, you think they'd IGNORE it?

>Nineveh, for instance, where Jonah went.  And, he didn't destroy
>that city as He planned.  

Then he didn't plan it.  Your god is all-knowing and all-powerful,
right?  He knew he wasn't gonna do it.

>And, He would have saved Sodom and Gomorrah if just
>a few (10?) righteous men were found in them, which probably had very large
>populations.  

What about the children in this city?  Your reasoning sounds like
typical befuddled Fundy Fog.

>BTW, He creates life; He also takes it away.

It's the indiscriminate "taking away" that shows what a dopey god you
people made up.  If I hear one more person "thank god" that he/she was
saved in a plane crash that killed hundreds, I'm gonna puke.

>I guess if you value your physical life and your eternal one doesn't exist for
>you, dying is a big deal.

That's the difference between me and you religious fanatics: I value
this life, and I actually live it.  I don't waste time spewing smarmy
bible quotes at people who don't give a shit; I sure as hell enjoy
life's pleasures without worrying about some adult Santa Claus checking
my list twice.  What a sad existence for you.

>>>In the NT, God is portrayed as capable of unimaginable
>>>wrath and unimaginable love.  Yep, they are different.

>>   How would you know, since obviously you haven't READ it?  Just picked a
>>   few smarmy quotes so you could create an arrogant .sig.

>Yeah, flame him.  

Well, I did.

>I'm sure you read your Bible every day and try to get
>something meaningful out of it.  

I read the bible, cover to cover, when I was younger.  It has some nice
philosophical points.  It has a lot of hateful bullshit in it, such as
the acceptance of slaves and the subjugation of women.  It has a god who
does NOT seem "loving and caring", ESPECIALLY in the O.T.  

You, Sammy, could read a lot of books, not limited to the bible, that
could help you learn to live with and tolerate other peoples and their
lifestyles and beliefs.  And since the bible says ZIP, NADA about
abortion, you could mind your own fucking business.

>I'm sure you're the one with ALL knowledge
>and know the correct interpretation of its verses.  

Did I say I had all knowledge, Samuel?  It's the supercilious
fundy crazies that act like they have the True Answer, and by golly,
EVERYONE has to hear about it ad nauseum.  
Get thine own house in order.

>And, you're not arrogant?

No more than you.

>>>	"But God demonstrates His	"I tell you that in the same way,
>>>	 own love for us, in that	 there will be more joy in heaven
>>>	 while we were yet sinners,	 over one sinner who repents, than
>>>	 Christ died for us."		 over ninety-nine righteous persons
>>>					 who need no repentance." 
>>>		-- Romans 5:8 [NASB]		-- Luke 15:7 [NASB]

>> This is pathetically preachy; pull your head out of your Christian ass and
>> try living with the rest of humanity.

>     I resent the fact that you practically slapped this guy in the face, who
>might have sincerely believed he would be helping out any readers.

I really don't give a shit.  Maybe he should learn to respect other
people's beliefs; then I may accord him the same courtesy.

>     This is why God kills cities.

This is why I think you're a dangerous, deluded fanatic, a bit out of
touch with reality.

>     BTW, Jesus said (as you probably know) that Christians are despised by
>normal society.  Because we do live and think differently.

No, the "christians" that are despised are those jerks who feel they
have to force their religion *by law* on the rest of us.  Many
christians are NOT despised by society (or me).  Leave my
life alone, and I could care less if you worshipped a toad.

>     But, you despise someone who obviously preaches that God forgives any
>mistakes or wrongs that we all do, and love for everyone to such an extent that
>He was willing to kill Himself in place of you?  

Really?  God committed suicide?  Isn't that a sin?

I'll tell ya: I don't believe any of that fairy tale about the "son of
god" getting killed "for us".  It sounds like a bad science fiction movie
plot from 1950.

>Did you read Luke 15:7 above?

Yes.  So?  

>     What is up with you?!  Though there is indeed a set of rules and penalties
>for breaking them, why is a religion despicable,...

I don't find the religion itself despicable; merely so goofy I don't
understand its popularity.  What I DO find despicable is those people
that can't keep their religion to themselves.

>...even though in its true form
>it is based on unconditional love for anyone and everyone and is ready to
>keep anyone from suffering those penalties?

Because I don't SEE any unconditional love from you fanatics; because I
know that more wars were started in the name of christianity then
anything else; because the screeching pieces of shit that make up clinic
protesters show about as much "love" as a wolverine.  Hell, anyone not
familiar with christianity that caught one Pat Robertson show would
wonder why anyone would follow his god.

And who the hell thinks some old fart in Rome is acting on orders from a
"loving, just" god, when the old fart issues proclamations timed for the
U.S. elections that tell people, "it's not a sin to discriminate against
homosexuals".  That right there, that one statement, invalidates the
whole Catholic Church.  A "just, loving" god simply would not stoop to
such hatred.  Either that, or you better smack some sense into Monsewer
Pope.


-- 
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| Steve Novak |    |"Wacker the K"| 
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steven@advtech.USWest.Com
Newsgroups: talk.abortion