HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: u907736@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Edmund Chia)
Subject: Re: Eddings vs. Tolkien
Organization: University of Tasmania
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 23:08:48 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.174549.19057@honte.uleth.ca>, proct_hately@hg.uleth.ca (Kintair of Hawkehaven MKA Bill Hately) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Jul21.161429.202061@uctvax.uct.ac.za>, 
> vhspet01@uctvax.uct.ac.za (Peter van Heusden) writes:
> >In article <1992Jul20.173508.202050@uctvax.uct.ac.za>, 
> glngar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:

(lots of stuff deleted)
>  Tolkien is acceptable reading, but He
> certainly is by no means "The Master of Fantasy" - He was early, and good, but
> there is a lot out there now that is one hell of a lot better, and much more
> interesting and well developed.  Maybe I feel this way because Tolkien wasn't
> the first Fantasy I ever read, so by the time I got to him everything was old
> hat.  Calling Eddings work light fantasy and Tolkien a full subcreation is
> asinine, Eddings has gone in depth into every one of his nationalities,
> every culture has it's own quirks and customs, even the stock characters are
> slightly rounded.  You don't get that in Tolkien, or half the other Authors
> people have been claiming to be Great.  I'm not saying that DE is the all
> round best Authour I have ever read - I won't say that about any of them,
> however I get sick of people saying how great Tolkien is just because he was
> one of the first fantasy Epic writers. (I won't even go into my opinions of
> Donaldson). Well I'll get off the soap box for now, flame me if you want but
> I'll be damned if I'll listen to such rubbish any more
> Bill
> Kintair of Hawkehaven          | Bill Hately   | Talk (403) 381-1741
> Shire of Windwyrm              | Lethbridge AB | proct_hately@hg.uleth.ca
> Crown Principality of Avacal   | Canada        | Smile Dammit
> An Tir (I wouldn't dream of subjecting any corp. or Educational Institution to
>         these opinions, so they certainly aren't the opinions of the UofL)
>   (And I'm not an officer of the SCA so I can't have an official opinion There
>               - even if I wanted to )
> Life is a Sexually Transmitted Terminal Condition

No flames intended - yet. Tolkien IS GREAT, especially when it comes to world/
universe/race creation. Unfortunately, when reading the Lord of the Rings, you
get the impression that he is more interested in describing the scenery than
getting on with the plot. IMHO, Eddings tells a better story though I believe that
Middle-Earth set a lot of standards and defined the way many of us(especially me)
think about Elves and Dwarves and Fantasy.

Edmund
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: ins450m@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (T.F. Eccles)
Subject: Re: Eddings on TV!
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 00:31:07 GMT

steve@sdf.lonestar.org (Steve Fuller) writes:

>Well, his book at least...

>a girl reading Diamond Throne actually. A PBS show called Degrassi High.

KILLL  KILLL I hate DEGRASSI HIGH.
Not only is it a load of excrement, it also keeps replacing Dr Who on
the ABC!!!!

ARGH
Eccles ( a mild mannered and calm human being)

Great Cthulhu will save you.
(In case he gets hungry later).
******************************************************************
*  All typographical errors in the above document are not errors *
*     They merely illustrate new ways of spelling those words    *
*								 *
* 			T.F. Eccles				 *
*		ins450m@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au			 *
******************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: bpostow@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Brian Postow)
Subject: Re: Origins of Eddings' different peoples
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
	<1992Jul27.041044.10962@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 06:53:56 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

well, I agree with everything there except Nyssians. I disagree with
both of the ones posted. 
I always thought that Nyssia was Egypt, it just seemed to fit, eunics
and stuff [did Egypt have Eunics?]  but the big thing was that it was
based around a base of a river. 

the other possiblity, and now that I think about it probalby better,
is China. look at it, Loads of Eunics running around, LOTS of court
intrigue, that sounds a LOT like what I know of empirial China...

--
Brian Postow :: The Pasta Knight - that noodle head in shiny armour
reachable at:
bpostow@occs.oberlin.edu
sbp2530@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu		this space left unintentionally blank.
sbp2530@oberlin.bitnet.edu

Yes, I KNOW that 6*9 is 42 in base 13.
From: matth@terapin.com (Matt Houlahan)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Eddings vs. Tolkien
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:08:37 GMT
Organization: BBS

>       Ok, I don't know if I have any real right to contribute to this
>conversation; I haven't ever read any JRR Tolkien (maybe I'll get around to
>it someday), but I thought I would like to have my 2 bits' worth.
 Me Either

>       Point is, IMHO, the Belgariad (and the Mallorean even), are 10
>of the best reads I've ever had. I think Eddings is a good writer, or, at
>least, a good story teller. Okay, maybe it won't be a literary classic
>to remember and treasure for 1000 years to come, but it's a good story,
>like James Clavell books. And it's far from some of the trash cheap authors
>are turning out nowadays.

 I couldn't agree more.

>       I, too, hope that Eddings won't abandon these characters (tho'
>I have to say, the Mallorean wasn't very open-ended). I think Eddings
>has a good potential plot in the past (Belgarath and Polgara), aand also
>in Hell (literally). In the Seeress of Kell, the voice in Garion's
>head said the Hell is totally different universe from their own, so...
>Some crisis with the Lord o' Hell, and there ya go! :)
  I'm afraid I don't quite agree with you on this point. I'd love to see more
happen with these cahragters as well, but it seems that whenever an author
tries to do more with some characters than (s)he originally expected, then they
usually end up butchering the story in the process. Take a look at (1) Piers
Anthony's Xanth novels. Should be buried by now (2) Some of the Dragonlance
books by misc. authors (some of the Preludes and Tales just clashed with the
original story) (3) and to a lesser extent, the Mallorean. Don't jump on me and
pull out the flamethrower quite yet, because I'm not saying that the Mallorean
was junk. I liked it alot, but when you compare it to the Belgariad, I'm sure
you'll agree that the story was lacking. It didn't butcher the original plot or
world, but IMHO it didn't compare with Belgariad and sort of ruined the ending
of it...
  And I think that Mallorean was supposed to by closed-ended...

>
>_____________________________________________________________________
> /                  /                \\ Sonya Chang
> \ [] (\) (/ /\     \ [-] /\ (\) (]  // lchang@uoft02.utoledo.edu
> / ====== / ===     ============ _)  \\ America Online: SonyaC
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Matt Houlahan  matth2terapin.com  Berkeley, CA 
***** "Hey, was that ANOTHER earthquake?" *****
From: phil@ecr.mu.oz.au (Philip HOENIG - USING YES TO DISPLAY RASCIST REMARKS)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Eddings on TV!
Date: 30 Jul 92 03:08:42 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia

In article <1992Jul28.145258.21250@honte.uleth.ca>, proct_hately@hg.uleth.ca (Kintair of Hawkehaven MKA Bill Hately) writes:
> >the ABC!!!!
>      ^^^ - Australian Broadcasting Corperation?  (shouldn't Be American
> Broadcasting Corp. in au I wouldn't think)

That's right. Our A.B.C. must be the only channel in the world where everyone in the country
pays 8 cents a day for the privelidge (sp?) of watching repeats of "I Love Lucy", "Rocky and
Bullwinkle" and any other crap that was made decades ago.

On the other hand, they show "Mr. Bean" so they can't be all that bad.


> Now back to your Regularly scheduled bouts about Eddings-Tolkien-Feist (and
> whoevers brought up next)

I was beginning to wonder if I was the only person who had heard of Feist. Surely he rates a
mention.
From: matth@terapin.com (Matt Houlahan)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Re:	Eddings vs. Tolkien
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:59:20 GMT
Organization: BBS

>In the final analysis, I think you'll find a great deal more written
>along with and about LOTR than will ever be written about the Belgariad
>and its cohorts (Malloreon and Elenium).  Just look in any bookstore.
  
 Well, I'd think that would be obvious, for a reason that you stated yourself.
The Hobbit and LOTR were new things that created a big splash in the fantasy
literary market, so it's natural that more would be said about this "new" and
"unknown" field that Tolkien has just "created". Eddings, on the other hand is
taking somehting that has already been explored and doing his own work with it.
For an analogy, do you think that Sputink would have been such a great
sensation when it was sent into orbit if it had been done many times in the
past? No. Today, when we hear about a new satellite going into space, we just
think, "Cool, what's on MTV?"

Matt Houlahan  matth2terapin.com  Berkeley, CA 
***** "Hey, was that ANOTHER earthquake?" *****
>
>(We now return you to your usual programming and get the hell off of our
>IMNSHO soapbox.  Thank you for listening.)
>
>-- 
>Mark A. Hull-Richter    UUCP:    ccicpg!al!mhr  In all things, restraint,
>ICL North America       or: mhr@al.irv.icl.com    especially with respect
>9801 Muirlands Blvd                               to posting articles and
>Irvine, CA  92713       (714)458-7282x4539        doubly so for flames.
From: lchang@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Tolkien, Eddings, Donaldson
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:14:46 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

>      Sorry to disappoint you, but I just have one real comment here,
> and it's not a flame.  Far be it from me to tell other people what
> they should and shouldn't enjoy reading, after all.

>> When I had finished, I decided that I wasn't going to bother with fantasy
>> ever again. I'm very sorry Eddings-fans, but this stuff was the most 
>> puerile, pre-packaged, ill-concieved, poorly written, meandering and
>> completely unconvincing collection of rushed, hack-writing I have ever
>> had the displeasure of reading.
> 
>      If you think Eddings is the extreme of bad, as the above
> paragraph indicates, you don't read much mass-market fiction.  For
> puerile, pre-packaged, etc., take a passing glance at the Executioner
> series.  Eddings is a grand master of literature in comparison.  Which
> is not to say I don't enjoy Mack Bolan's exploits on occasion.  It's
> my idea of mind candy.  But to call the Belgariad an "unconvincing
> collection of rushed, hack-writing" is to do it a great disservice
> when it is compared with material known to be "rushed hack-writing."

	That's true. I'm not well-versed in the whole fantasy market (I've
never read JRR Tolkien for instance), but just walk into any bookstore
and look in the SciFi/Fantsy, and then you will find a lot of real trash.
	Anyway, I think it's mostly just the personal opinion thing.

_____________________________________________________________________
 /                  /                \\ Sonya Chang
 \ [] (\) (/ /\     \ [-] /\ (\) (]  // lchang@uoft02.utoledo.edu
 / ====== / ===     ============ _)  \\ America Online: SonyaC
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: crs@castle.ed.ac.uk (C R Smart)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: While we are on the subject of Eddings peeves...
Date: 31 Jul 92 09:13:56 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

tyger@netcom.com (Kitty in the Middle) writes:

>How about that cover art?

When talking about artwork, you will have to specifiy which publisher,
format and sometimes even which edition.  The Corgi paperbacks in
Britain had some very nice artwork while the hardbacks (I can't
remember the publisher) were much poorer (IMHO.)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colin Smart         |      Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards
crs@castle.ed.ac.uk |      for they are subtle and quick to anger. -- Tolkien
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bpostow@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Brian Postow)
Subject: Re: Tolkien, Eddings, Donaldson
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
	<1992Jul23.054405.17992@newsroom.utas.edu.au>
	<92205.113830IO11092@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 06:38:54 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

some thing that the Tolkien fans might be interested in: Everyone is
really impressed by Tolkien because [among other things] he was so
original, he came and basically created the fantasy genre from
scratch, or so most people thing [at least I used to think it] Now i
have evidence to the contrary.

LOTR/Hobbit is taken very much from Germanic mythology, this is known
by many people, he based it onGerman myths, ok fine. However, what
isn't known, or at least what I didn't know is that the story is
extremely simmilar to The Ring of the Niebelung [sorry about spelling]
any Wagner fans will recognize this as the Ring cycle of operas,
others just need to know that it is a Germanic tale with Gods and
valkyrie and heros and stuff.

I am not an expert in the Ring, however if you read my from line you
will see that I come from Oberlin which has a conservatory of music
attatched to it, two of my friends took a course on the Ring cycle
last semester and were shocked to find how many straight parralells
from the Ring cylce were in LOTR. From the ones I can remember [a
small fraction of the ones there] there is a bit about a ring that
gives it's wielder ultimate power, but it is evil and must be
destroyed in order for the wielder not to die or turn evil or
something of that sort. The Hero finds the ring and eventually must
destroy the ring or be destroyed himself. There is a long quest
involved. a hostile god is intent on finding the ring for himself.
there wre also a series of names from the Simmerillian that were taken
straight from the Ring...


OBEddings:
While writing this I realized that, you know, even more than LOTR,
this sounds like the Ellenium.... It even has the evil deformed Troll
in it... hmmmm Interesting... 

--
Brian Postow :: The Pasta Knight - that noodle head in shiny armour
reachable at:
bpostow@occs.oberlin.edu
sbp2530@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu		this space left unintentionally blank.
sbp2530@oberlin.bitnet.edu

Yes, I KNOW that 6*9 is 42 in base 13.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: slb3y@cc.usu.edu (Punk Rocketeer)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Re: Tolkien, Eddings, Donaldson
Date: 23 Jul 92 09:11:50 MDT
Organization: United Order of Non-joiners

Tim.ONeill@english.utas.edu.au (Tim O'Neill) writes:
> 
> Well, I'm probably going to get flamed to cinders for saying this in this
> newsgroup, but what the heck

     Sorry to disappoint you, but I just have one real comment here,
and it's not a flame.  Far be it from me to tell other people what
they should and shouldn't enjoy reading, after all.
> 
> Tolkien was my first exposure to fantasy fiction also, and since I read
> LOTR at a young and impressionable age I thought it was the greatest book
> in the world. Many years and a couple of degrees in literature later I
> haven't read any fantasy for many years. This is because about ten years
> ago a friend of mine loaned me the Belgariad series and asked
> me to read them and tell him what I thought. By that stage I wasn't reading
> much fantasy at all, as I was getting into medieval literature (ie the REAL
> stuff:-)) but I took them home and read them.
> 
> When I had finished, I decided that I wasn't going to bother with fantasy
> ever again. I'm very sorry Eddings-fans, but this stuff was the most 
> puerile, pre-packaged, ill-concieved, poorly written, meandering and
> completely unconvincing collection of rushed, hack-writing I have ever
> had the displeasure of reading.

     If you think Eddings is the extreme of bad, as the above
paragraph indicates, you don't read much mass-market fiction.  For
puerile, pre-packaged, etc., take a passing glance at the Executioner
series.  Eddings is a grand master of literature in comparison.  Which
is not to say I don't enjoy Mack Bolan's exploits on occasion.  It's
my idea of mind candy.  But to call the Belgariad an "unconvincing
collection of rushed, hack-writing" is to do it a great disservice
when it is compared with material known to be "rushed hack-writing."
-- 
Patrick S. Clark | "We are not in the Eighth Dimension.
Email is life!   |  We are over New Jersey.  All is not lost."
Usual disclaimer | --Unidentified red Lectroid announcer
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: umcho000@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Connie Cho)
Subject: Re: alt.fan.eddings
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:40:34 GMT

In article <25653@life.ai.mit.edu> skrishna@cocoa-pebbles.ai.mit.edu (Sarath Krishnaswamy) writes:
>In article <1992Jul20.173508.202050@uctvax.uct.ac.za>, glngar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>|> I'M GLAD TO SEE THIS NEWSGROUP.
>|> IN MY OPINION,EDDINGS IS THE MASTER OF FANTASY(EVEN BETTER THAN TOLKIEN-A SOUTH
>|> AFRICAN BY BIRTH I SHOULD TELL YOU.)
>
>Actually, though I like Eddings' work quite a bit, I'd have to say that for
>the title "Master of Fantasy" I'd go with Guy Gavriel Kay for his _Fionavar
>Tapestry_ trilogy, with a potential runner up in Stephen R. Donaldson for

Ugh. I read the Mordant's Need series because my friends kept assuring
me how good the Thomas Covenant series was. Be that as it may, this ain't
no Thomas Covenant. Give me Eddings any day over Donaldson.

CKC


Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: bpostow@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Brian Postow)
Subject: a question of curiosity
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Distribution: alt
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 06:47:49 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

if the english major up there disliked Eddings so much, why was he
reading the group? 

This is not a flame, this is not an angry sort of thing, I am just
curios abou twhat sort of thought paterns were involved.

Excuise m y typing please, I need sleep

--
Brian Postow :: The Pasta Knight - that noodle head in shiny armour
reachable at:
bpostow@occs.oberlin.edu
sbp2530@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu		this space left unintentionally blank.
sbp2530@oberlin.bitnet.edu

Yes, I KNOW that 6*9 is 42 in base 13.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
From: ins450m@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (T.F. Eccles)
Subject: Re: Pet hates of Eddings' work!
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 04:47:15 GMT

mtt@alaska.et.byu.edu (Dave Stirling) writes:

>lchang@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:

>> Asharak the Murgo. Why does he always insist on appending 'the Murgo' to his
>> name?). Anyway, he didn't figure out it was Chaldan until the last several
>> chapters of the book.......

>_Seeress of Kell_ was, for some reason, riddled with these types of
>things.  I don't think it was DE's fault.  I find it impossible to
>believe that he could confuse the two :-).  But back to Seeress... My
>copy had a lot of spelling errors, in addition to things like this.
>Somewhere in the Mallorean there is also a neat little typo concerning
>what is supposed to read "Polgara".  I don't remember the exact
>wording, but it reads something like "Polgedra" or "Polgera" or
>something.

Yeah, it was in "Guardians of the West". Poldurna.... I think...
maybe Poldura...

Anyway,. it sounded like a cross b/w Durnik and Polgara....
Maybe he's getting ahead of himself...
:)
Eccles 


>--
>Dave Stirling				 
>email: mtt@alaska.caedm.byu.edu		...standard disclaimers apply...
From: vhspet01@uctvax.uct.ac.za (Peter van Heusden)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.eddings
Subject: Eddings vs. Tolkien
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:14:29 +0200
Summary: Up with Tolkien
Organization: University of Cape Town

In article <1992Jul20.173508.202050@uctvax.uct.ac.za>, glngar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
> IN MY OPINION,EDDINGS IS THE MASTER OF FANTASY(EVEN BETTER THAN TOLKIEN-A SOUTH
> AFRICAN BY BIRTH I SHOULD TELL YOU.)

Heresy! How can you say this! I do not have the time to discuss this in full,
but to even compare Eddings and Tolkien on the same scale is ludicrous. Eddings
is good, if a bit stilted, light fantasy, whereas Tolkien's is a full
subcreation. (By the way, Tolkien's South African connections are minimal to
say the least. His writings show no hint of influence)

As for the characters: Well, obviously many of Tolkien's characters are not as
human as Eddings', since they aren't human. OK. I hate Elves too, and 
believe that Tolkien made a stylistic and thematic error in presenting them
as he did, but overall, I, and I believe most of the fantasy reading community,
would give the mastership awards to Tolkien, and applaud Eddings as the 
writer of a interesting little comic ditty.

Peter
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tom-robbins
From: stone@bradley.bradley.edu (Steve Stone)
Subject: Re: good book
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 20:16:32 GMT

In <Bs5yKJ.C05@news.udel.edu> wilhited@brahms.udel.edu (Douglas Ben Wilhite) writes:

>In article <1992Jul29.181203.8732@news.media.mit.edu> tsmaster@media.mit.edu (David LeCompte) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul28.160733.1@acad3.alaska.edu> fsjdh@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
>>>Damn, Still Life With Woodpecker is a good book!
>>>>Yup!
>>>>>Damn Straight!

Damn!? Yup!? Damn Straight!????

That's all you can say about the book that taught you what it is
to be an outlaw, the real meaning of the moon and how to make love
stay? It has been a while since the woodpecker crossed my path
but I still remember his flaming red head and it seared across
my consiousness, making me aware of the magic of choice.

I, like the Princess, have spent long nights in a dark room with no one else
but the moon. I have carried around a pack of Camel cigarettes
for a year, to show the magic of choice. (I choose not to control
the fire and draw it into myself, I leave that to braver souls)

I don't mean to flame you, just to light a fire under you.
Pour out what you feel, don't just exclaim it. Learn the
lessons that Dr. Robbins has taught and dare to make an
unseemly metaphor. Let the rosy fingers and thumbs of the
dawn bring the bright butter-basted mushrooms to light. Let
the bass note of beets anchor the perfume of dynamite that
Nobelly blows away the veils from your eyes.

Dare to be the pagan you were born to be, not just a "yup" or
"damn-straight" person.
-- 
Steven A. Stone 			Bradley University  
Electronic Services Librarian		Peoria, Illinois
stone@bradley.bradley.edu 		(309) 677-2839 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tom-robbins
From: robmacf@dep (Robert Macfarlane)
Subject: TR evangelism
Reply-To: rob@philo.mcgill.ca
Organization: McGill University, Montreal, Canada
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:48:09 GMT

Does everybody out there evangelize Tom Robbins books?

I do, and I was introduced to Tom Robbins by someone else
who does.  If anybody ever says, "I'm looking for
something to read," the first thing I always recommend
is Robbins.

I suppose everybody else on this group does that too,
since it IS a fan group.  How were you introduced to
Tom Robbins?

Just curious,
Rob Macfarlane
From: tsmaster@media.mit.edu (David LeCompte)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.tom-robbins
Subject: Re: good book
Date: 29 Jul 92 18:12:03 GMT
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory

In article <1992Jul28.160733.1@acad3.alaska.edu> fsjdh@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
>Damn, Still Life With Woodpecker is a good book!
Yup!

-- 
---------------------
ObSig