From: jacobus@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: marvel
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:00:16 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center



Warning, the following is going to be quite an unpleasant experience for
those who belive in basic human dignity.



In article <oeYaS=200h7bA1IVcn@andrew.cmu.edu> af2e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Alex Feely) writes:
>Hello,
>I just joined this bboard, but I'd like to say somthing. Has anyone

Bboard??  This is a newsgroup.  "Bboards" are what you found back when you
didn't have a real computer account, just a modem and too much time on
your hands.  Welcome to the big pool, hope you can swim with the sharks.

>heard of MARVEL SUPER HEROES! I'm not looking for a game, right now I
>play AD&D2, But this is a good game published by tsr, It's even been in
>DRAGON magazine. It's high time people recognize it for what it is. It's
>far SUPERior to any other comic role-playing system. 



I:  There are no good games published by "tsr" (hey, anyone notice a similarity
between that and "tsar"?  Might explain their tyrannic, paranoid, greedy
behaviour, no?

II:  Being in "DRAGON magazine" is no sign of quality whatsoever, especially
if the game comes from TSR.  Sorry, but Dragon is in the business of promoting
TSR products.  They have never, so far as I know, ever, ever, ever said that
ANY TSR product was anything less than superb, no matter how abysmal it might
actually be.  I'd be far more impressed if the game had been lauded in
pre-GW-owned White Dwarf or in the Space Gamer or early issues of White Wolf.
Sorry, but I only believe favorable reviews in Dragon if they are not for
TSR products (like I only believe favorable reviews in White Wolf if they
are not White Wolf products, the same for Challenge/GDW, White Dwarf/GW, etc.).
It is the business of a business to promote its own products, therefore, no
matter how simon-pure game-company-owned magazines may actually be, they
are suspect whenever "evaluating" products from their parent companies.  No
editor would dare bite the hand that feeds the magazine--and the editor's 
salary.

III:  I "recognize it for what it is".  It's a badly-designed knock-off
(with some creditable supplements, I will hand you that) intended to pull
money out of the pockets of pubescent/adolescent fan-boys.  Some may consider
it the "best there is", but the reasons have more to do with the weaknesses
of other systems than any strength Marvel has.  Sorry, but Marvel's only
"strength" is the same strength one would have from just taking a stack
of comic books and saying "let's play a game".  I'd rather do the latter
myself than have to wade through such a badly-designed system.  "Flexibility"
is the most cited "strength" of MSH, and this "flexibility" is far more due
to a lack of good rules (or any rules) than good design.  Might as well
wing it.  "Simplicity" is also cited--but it is, again a "simplicity" of
deficiency, not good design.

However, I will admit to serious, for some fatal, flaws in the other
extant superheroic games.  Champions, GURPS, and DC all suffer from the
"mad accountant" school of character design.  I, myself don't mind this in
the least, being able to do multi-column arithmetic in my head, but I 
can easily see how others would find this horribly tedious.  (My own beloved
fiancee is in this category.  She usually will just give me the concept and
tell me to take care of the numerage.)  Justice, Unlimited suffers from 
its attempt to impose character classes and levels upon the superheroic
genre--it also suffers from not translating a normal-human-based system
(Palladium) into the superheroic very well--something shared by GURPS.
Villains and Vigilantes I don't even consider a worthwhile game system.  On
the other hand, I would consider it a good sourcebook from which one can
derive one's OWN system (much as Ryk Spoor seems to have done).


The problem is that only one superheroic game currently is marketed which
does not suffer from the above deficiencies--MSH.  But MSH has no intrinsic
strengths to offer.  (See above for my comments on the "strengths" of MSH.)
I would buy, laud, and publicize any superheroic game that manages to both
avoid the pitfalls of most other games but still have a strong system,
good character development, and handle the multifarious genres called 
"superheroic" well.  Unfortunately, no such system exists.