HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: asar.320@wpi.wpi.edu  
Subject:  hello
Followup-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
X-Aps2-Version: 2.1
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service @ WPI
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 00:59:04 GMT

Hello.  This screen is quite blank right now, and I am having trouble saying
anything because nothing I want to say makes any sense, really.  I tried
to post anonymously earlier today, but since I am really new to this system,
I think I fucked up somehow.  Also, I read debbie's post (on self esteem...)
and realized that if she could say that to you all, I guess there really
is no danger.  After all, I've been through worse, right?  Also, I feel very
strongly about forcing myself to fight the shame I feel, because I know (academically)
that I did nothing wrong, and that it is important that more people tell
their stories instead of hiding them.

Anyhow, I guess it's obvious that I'm a survivor of sexual abuse.  I was
assaulted two months ago.  Not very long, compared to some of you who have
had to bear this since childhood.  I'm OK, mostly.  But I have lots of questions
and even more fears, and a friend pointed me toward this group.  I don't
know what to say, really.  I'm having a lot of problems with anger and not
feeling safe around men or even like I want to be near them (like just now
when I ditched three of my closer male friends who really just wanted to
have dinner with me because I felt threatened and undermined by them and
I am/was scared of the anger I feel toward them and what I might do about
it if I don't avoid them.  But I don't want to avoid them, I don't think)
 Also I've had a lot of problems dealing with my body and how i feel about
it - when the assault had just happened, I really thought I had lost all
of my sexual impulses, and that was ok because it made me feel safe from
them, but I'm feeling them again and I don't want to - I feel like my body
is betraying me and making me want men even though they are dangerous and
want to use my body for themselves and will hurt me - but I don't want to
not want them (sexual impulses AND men)around, either, I don't think.  Did
that make any sense?

Well, I think this all I can deal with talking about for now.  I just want
to say that you are all brave and strong people for enduring and continuing
to try to heal when it would seem so easy to give up.  Surviving is my only
goal, lately.  i only hope it is enough to get me through.  I wish you peace
and safety and healing dreams and whatever else you need.

				-jac

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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: gberger@hubcap.clemson.edu (gary l berger)
Subject: Re: the FAQ list
Keywords: help
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:12:31 GMT



How do you define a perp?  This is somewhat rhetorical.  My wife would tell
you right now that I am a perp.  I am a victem also.  This is many times the
case.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Posting and pain
From: jfriedman@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:27:04 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

Wow.  I didn't realize yesterday that posting would turn me insidwe out and
expose all my wounds which <i had so recently and i thought successfully
covered -- I wen fetal for an hour last night - wouldve liked to have done it
for more but i didnt think my professor would accept as an excuse for a late
paper the fact that I was curled up on my very blue rug quietly screaming about
somethingthat had happened twop monsh ago, so my superego won out and the
paper got done but when do I get time to HEAL????  I thought i was but
evidently i've been kidding myself so that i could get on with the rest of my
life or at least act like i was getting on with the rest of my life, but I
haven't had a chance at all really since it happened to sit and lick my wounds
and figure stuff out like where do I put the anger and the pain which i've
forced not to show but keep peeking through in bad places whether I like it or
not.  On my way here i saw one of the perp's friends who stared through me like
i wasn't there like he could make me not exist, and then i got here and a
friend of mine walked over to see what i was doing on the computer and looked
right into my wounds (she doesn't even know what happened - or didn't) and I
sat here feeling helpless to say anything and I still feel helpless to do
anything because I refuse to let this take over my life or stop it or ruin it
or even mess it up, but trying to pretend that I'm ok is probably doing all of
those things.  I can't talk about this with anyone really ( maybe one or two
people) because all of my friends who were really supportive when everything
had just happened are tired of my crisis now - they don't understand how it can
start and stop and come crashing back even though i've been acting like i'm
fine, and they think i'm being "melodramatic" (one of them actually told me
this)  Maybe I am.  It has been almost two months, and he didn't actually RAPE
me, right (WHAT DOES THAT MEAN????????????)  But still i feel scared and
scarred and ugly and confused and very vulnerable like anyone looking at me
could tell that it wouldn't takle much to turn me into a ball of jelly that it
wouldn't take much to hurt me very badly that anyone looking at me could hurt
me VERY BADLY and that makes me angry in an impotent way cause i know i
wouldn't hurt anyone really but i very much want to so where does that leave
me????????

                              -jac 
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: adelpha@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: Death takes a perpetrator
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 01:03:10 GMT

Hi, I'm new, (there, now that that is over with...)
    Lions and Tigers, 
I have indeed been in a similar situation.  My father died about eight
years ago, leaving behind a very angry and frightened victim. My father 
died of a relatively lingering illness, and while he was busy dying, 
I was busy running away at warp speed. I was incredibly angry, 
and I felt very guilty for being angry, and I had no way to let anyone 
know why I was angry. I wanted him to die, and was pretty obvious 
about it. 

At the same time, I felt sorry for him.  His death was not dignified or
pleasant, and it hurt to see my father like that.  This made me feel 
guilty for the anger that I felt, and set up a generally bad situation.
How do you want to both kill and save someone in the space taken up by a 
breath?  The range of emotions I felt was enormous.  It took me a long
time to settle the anger within myself.

All I can really say is -}In My OWN Experience{-:
Anger at your perpetrator, and getting revenge is normal.  You have a 
right to be angry at your perpetrator whather he is dying or not.  
His death doesn't change what he did, it makes him harder to see as a
person responsible for his actions.  It is difficult to speak ill of
the dead (or ill) ;-)  Do not feel guilty for your anger, just separate
it from your grief.  
I did feel grief for my father (as hard as I tried not to).  
I was very angry at myself because I could not come to terms
with loving and hating him.  My solution  -scratch that- my coping mech.
was to realize that I hated my abuser.  I loved and mourned my father
-the one I never had, the one who came out with other people, or (rarely)
with me.  I loved the man who could have been, not the man who was. This
is indeed a rationalization, but it works for me.  I will always be true
to myself and my memories by not falling prey to the mists of time.  I
 will not forget my anger, nor will I let anyone convince me that through
the hazy veil of time, my father was 'a good man'. But I wish I'd met the
one who was a good man, I needed him.  I hope you find a way to separate
the emotions that you feel, because one does not invalidate another.
I hope I helped some anyway, if you want to talk more, or yell at me 
for being a twit, please e-mail me.  

                                Happythoughts everyone 
                                            Annie
 


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Our fruitbat of a computer doesn't like .sig files!
     
       So I don't have one ......
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: asar.306@wpi.wpi.edu (Ruby June) 
Subject:  thank you
Followup-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
X-Aps2-Version: 2.1
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service @ WPI
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 12:31:07 GMT


APS-Name: Ruby June

Re:

Sim, changeling, and Camelot offering encouragement
and kind prespective with replies to my post.

Thank you.  

A brief update: my therapist was simply inquiring
as a legitimate question.  (Camelot -- right on
target).     

Your replies provided the insight which afforded me
the strength to approach the subject in our following
session without feeling like I was attacking her by  
bringing up my question of timing. 

I hope I can be of future help in return. 


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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov
Subject: Re: I'm angry today
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 21:01:03 GMT

Congrads on standing up for yourself.  If this doesn't work, you might consider
talking to the Department Chair.

-- 
Daniel B. Holzman                    | Eight Words the Witch's Rede Fufill:
HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET                  | An It Harm None, Do What You Will
HOLZMAN@FNALC.FNAL.GOV.INTERNET      |
                                     | All Acts of Love and Pleasure are
Love doesn't subtract,               | Her Rituals
   it multiplies    - Heinlein       |
TEAM STAR Charter Member             | Saddam Hussein still has a job.  Do you?
Disclaimer:  Fermilab's far too large to have an opinion, let alone mine.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: aatresa@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (Teresa Kline)
Subject: Re: Problems with a new baby in the family
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Yeah, *right* !
Date: 17 Apr 1992 08:45 EST  

In article <1992Apr17.000328.18902@sdd.hp.com>, geroldf@sdd.hp.com (Gerold Firl) writes...
>hartfiel@cis.ohio-state.edu (mathew alan hartfield) writes:
> 
>>	Does anyone relate?
> 
>Yes. It makes me mad too.
> 

And makes me sad.  I sometimes feel guilty because I've not confronted the 
family.  And the next generation is there. 
One of my allies said that I need to deal with me first...that I can't save 
everyone.  And perhaps they already know.  Maybe they knew about my cousins 
and did nothing to save me.  Sad thought, huh?

Gentleness to all!
-- Teresa

		Life -- just for the FUN of it!!!!
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: aatresa@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (Teresa Kline)
Subject: Re: getting it inside?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Yeah, *right* !
Date: 10 Apr 1992 14:02 EST  

In article <1992Apr10.165452.25312@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v039eag3@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Amy R Phillips) writes...
>Hi everyone!  I hope that things are going well for all of you.  I have a
>question (again).  My friend was telling me that he sees me trying to deal
>with my abuse as if it was outside of myself rather that accepting it inside.
>Does this make any sense?  

It does make sense, Amy.  I'm still doing it with my inner child.  I 
intellectualize her.  I see how strong she was, and how courageous, but I 
have yet to fully realize that she is me.
I also have the tendency to say things like "I understand that, but I still 
feel...".  It's too easy for me to deal with the abuse in a rational way, 
instead of feeling the pain and anger.

>I feel as if I am trying to do something for myself,
>but am not really getting anywhere.  I keep thinking, but trying not to, that
>if I never totally accept that this could have happened then I will never have
>to deal.  I know that this contradicts my other posts, but this is the way I 
>feel now, like I am on an endless road, never seeing the end.  what the hell
>is there for me to do?  Frustation is so damaging, and fruitless.
>in courage (sort of)....

You *are* getting somewhere.  If you have a friend who sees you and is 
willing to witness your progress, you've got a head start.  I have two 
people who do that, my counsellor and a friend.  They are always telling me 
that I'm making progress, and give me concrete examples.  That way I don't 
spend so much time looking forward to find the end of the road; I can look 
back (through their eyes) and see how far I've come.

Gentleness to all!

-- Teresa

		Life -- just for the FUN of it!!!!
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: enigma@netcom.com (Enigma)
Subject: Re: anonymous posting mechanisms
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 01:35:01 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Apr14.202059.13080@opusc.csd.scarolina.edu> bev@opusc.csd.scarolina.edu (Beverly Huntsberger) writes:
>	Hi,
>
>	Is there a sys-admin type out there who
>	would  be willing to have a possibly
>	ongoing discussion with me via e-mail
>	about the workings of anon postings.
>
>	I want to use it, but I also want to 
>	understand the mechanism to the point
>	where _I_ can trust it.
>
>	I have questions, like:
>	will my postings be able to be seen
>	(in a cyberspace-traffic-monitoring type
>	mode) by sys-ops. My group is REALLY 
>	small - it's just me and my sys-op.

Well, your sys-op can read any mail you send.  It's not even
difficult.  Since you would be mailing it to the anonymous
service, not only your own sysop but any sysop along the way
*could* read your message.  It's really unlikely that any of the
intermediate sysops would bother, though.

I went through some of the same feelings in deciding to post here,
and lots of people were very supportive.  I finally decided to
change my NAME variable to Enigma, and use a .sig file that
doesn't include my "real" name.  This isn't exactly anonymous, as
most of the people in town know me as Enigma rather than <insert
real name here>, but I figured there's no way my parents will hear
I've been posting here (I don't have the slightest idea how to
begin telling them I'm not totally happy with the way they raised
me - I think they think they were "ideal" parents).  I hope you
can find a way to post that wouldn't involve making you
uncomfortable.  Perhaps you could post from a different site? 

Anyway, mail me (enigma@netcom.com) if there's any way I can help.
I'm a wannabe Unix "expert" (read: beginner with delusions of
grandeur), but I've got lots of books and real experts to ask,
so go ahead.

-- 
Enigma (enigma@netcom.com)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: Mary Enya Riley <dusty@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: First Frog
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 20:57:42 -0500

In <1992Apr9.123139.29732@wpi.WPI.EDU> asar.313@wpi.wpi.edu (Frog) writes:


>	I have been wondering how long back can you remember things.
>The first few month and probably the first year are out of the
>question but after that, it posible varies with the individual. 

In trance (regression therapy, whatever) you can remember back to
being in the womb (yuck! jeez, I hate my mother) -- maybe you can
remember without trancing.  My earliest clear memory is of lying on my
back, too small to sit up or roll over by myself, and an adult's hands
are grabbing me & picking me up & shaking me.  I'm arching my back and
splaying my limbs in the way very small babies do when they're shocked
of frightened, and I'm very hot, probably also from fear because i get
feverish when I'm scared.  From what I know about babies, which is a
lot, I'd say I'm three months old.  I have flashbacks to this
sometimes when I sleep on my back.  Definitely, it varies according to
individuals.  

My earliest memory from before I started remembering the abuse was of
meeting my best friend, right after she was born, and I was a year and
a half old.

Mary Riley
From: v130py5w@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (ReNeE)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Telling
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:44:00 GMT
Followup-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr12.180253.21045@wpi.WPI.EDU>, asar.317@wpi.wpi.edu writes...
> 
>Hello all.

HI


> 
>I finally told my mother about my abuse.  It was the hardest thing I think
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Congrats!!

>shock for a moment, and said "Oh my god, what did he do"?  And then she
>held me and we both started crying.

I'm glad it went well!!

>I was a little afraid that she might not believe me.  But she did.  We
>held each other and cried and talked about it for over an hour.  She felt
>resposible, but I told her she wasn't, and that I loved her.  I am so proud
>of myself for finally being able to tell her.
> 
>E-hugs to all.  I'm so happy!
> 
> 
>Edward Tyrrill
>cerebus@ucrmath.ucr.edu
> 

I'm really happy for you! Someday i hope to tell my parents...sigh....probably
not though..
ReNeE
From: blackbourner@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Overt paedophilia IS sexual abuse (Re: sex/power)
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:19:35 CDT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

In article <1992Apr6.043459.17923@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v039eag3@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Amy R Phillips) writes:
> In article <1992Apr3.163838.12947@midway.uchicago.edu>, gery@midway.uchicago.edu (Black Pearl) writes...
>>In article <1847@transfer.stratus.com>, Laurie Mann writes:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ....  For those of us 
>>> who were sexually abused as children, it is impossible to view
>>> overt paedophilia as anything BUT child sexual abuse.  
>>> Period.  End of discussion.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>>Agree.
> 
> Ditto

Same here.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell)
Subject: Re: sex/power
Summary: This is Sherri, not Steve
Organization: University of Maryland at College Park
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 19:32:55 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.201453.25054@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes:
>(Chris writes a response to Alan's story...in which he extrapolates
>at least as much into the story as I did (perhaps more))
>
>Surprise.  I've heard exactly the same stock phrases as Chris
>wrote in this article from people who were openly advocating
>their right to viciously abuse children and women.  I've been
>calmly trying to accept that what we've got is merely a linguistic
>problem here, but if it were, then I'd expect Chris to make a
>more responsible effort to use common words in their common meanings
>and/or define his own uncommon meanings before using them.
>At this time I only hear perp advocacy under the guise of
>"children's sexuality rights" from Chris.  Hello---most of us
[rest deleted]

This was really good, Matt.

Chris, I don't mean this as a flame, but unless you're a survivor yourself
who is using this discussion as a way to ease into talking about yourself,
I sort of think you should spend a little more time listening.  I think in
a number of cases that what you're saying just isn't helpful.  Your response
to one survivor's story (Couldn't you have called the police? etc.) shows
that therapy really isn't your field (well, many therapists have made the
mistake of asking just such guilt-amplifying questions, actually).

Please take the nature of this newsgroup into account if you want to keep
sharing this information here.  Define your terms carefully (otherwise we'll
identify any term like 'pedophile' with our own perp(s), since that's what
we're concerned with primarily).  Tell us where your information is coming
from as well (if its from pedophile case studies, no matter how 'objective'
I think I'll hold on to my scepticism).  

If you need this newsgroup in some way, however, let us know.  I know I'll
feel a lot better about reading your posts.  I don't feel the same need to
agree with the other survivors here, but I feel like you're coming from the
'outside' and telling us what things are like.

Sherri
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: RE: Overt paedophilia IS sexual abuse (Re: sex/power)
Date: 6 Apr 92 19:35:16 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, fay@dolomite.WPI.EDU (Peter R Fay) wrote:
>sabolps2> protecting themselvs (from the shame) and will probally be
>sabolps2> more helpful than not in helping to protect children who
>sabolps2> (like themselves) my have not REALLY been concenting.  The
> 
>"MAY" not REALLY be consenting????  This is the logic that
>perpetrators use - that some children ARE ABLE to consent, therefore
>prepetrators rationalize their abuse.

I've asked this before.  Define children.

>In fact the favored treatment of paedophiles is to
>teach them to FEEL SHAME about what they are doing, because THEY
>DON'T!!! 

I personally have a lot of trouble with this.  Shame will not keep someone
from molesting children.  It will just keep them ashamed of who they
are.  Many of us know how destructive that shame turned inward can
be.  That *some* clinicians, apparently you included, are encouraging
such self-destruction, I find quite disturbing.  While I have no love
lost for paedophiles, I find this tactic as bad as the original crime,
and probably not very effective at all.

>They have a million rationalizations to continue their
>behavior, usually including that the child/adolescent consented.  They
>normally lack any shame, compassion, or empathy at all, and therefore
>even with treatment, frequently return to abusing children.

Maybe because as you've described above, you are only teaching them to
hate themselves.  There's gotta be a better way, although maybe no one
has found it yet.

>In terms of the field of mental health, there are about a handful of
>"clinicians" who advocate paedophilia, versus tens of thousands who
>oppose it, including every professional organization and association
>in existance.  This is also true of published literature in the field
>- almost none exists showing anything but trauma coming from
>adult-child sex, at least the couple of hundred articles and books I
>have read.

Which means nothing.  Thirty years ago, thousands of "clinicians"
held the belief tha homosexuality was a disease, while only a handful
thought otherwise.  Now, the prevailing attitude is quite different.
I'm not in any way advocating paedophilia, just a more common-sense
and less destructive treatment for those who truly wish to change.
Inducing shame will not do that.

                                                                        ____
    Sim David Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3338.span@sdsc.edu \  /
     April 4, 1992  Marjorie Stoneman Douglas' 102nd birthday            \/
      I'll probably see her out dancing.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: aatresa@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (Teresa Kline)
Subject: Perfect victim?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Yeah, *right* !
Date: 16 Apr 1992 17:21 EST  

I'm starting to have the terrible fear that I am that "perfect victim" that 
I hear the psychologists talking about.  That I have the victim mentality, 
simply because of what I went through as a child.

I've never really stood up for myself.  When I do, it's because someone 
pushes me to do so, and I'm actually doing it for someone else.  Talk about 
a victim!

I'm just really afraid that I'm a victim, I've always been a victim, I'll 
always *be* a victim.  And it's frightening to think that I'll never get 
out of the cycle.

Anyone have any suggestions?  Or a helping hand?

Gentleness to all! 
-- Teresa

		Life -- just for the FUN of it!!!!
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery