HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ajw@squid.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU (Andrew Waugh)
Subject: Re: condensing locos
Organization: CSIRO, Division of Information Technology, Melbourne
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 21:08:20 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.223709.10438@mel.dit.csiro.au> ajw@squid.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU (Andrew Waugh) writes:
>A second major advantage of condensing steam engines was economic. The energy
>in steam can be considered to be composed of two parts. The first (usually
>the largest) part is the latent heat; this is the energy required to get the
>water to boiling point. The second is the excess heat above that required
>to get the water to boiling point (this probably has a name, but my references
>are at home :-)

Whoops! The heat required to get the water to boiling point is termed the
'sensible' heat and is the energy that is lost. The 'latent' heat actually
boils the water and is (partially) recoverable in the cylinders as work.
These terms are, apparently, obsolete. Just shows how old my textbooks are...

andrew waugh
From: ianking@nnsgs52.lon40.nt.com (Ian King)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Great Central Railway
Date: 11 Nov 1992 11:47:36 GMT
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, 
NNTP-Posting-Host: nnsgs52.lon40.nt.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Peter King (prking@silver.cs.umanitoba.ca) wrote:
: 
: The question that I hope somebody can help with is as follows. There 
: is a brief section at the beginning of the book entitled Great 
: Central Renaissance? This suggests that there is a consortium 
: interested in re-opening some 60 miles of the route from Whetstone 
: to a point between Banbury and Marylebone on the Chiltern line. This 
: would be part of a freight route from Kent to the Midlands. I would 
: be very interested in hearing whether this is fact of fiction, and 
: what the status is, if any.
: 
I really have to reply to this!! especially as my youngest son (4)is also
called Peter King and I have a soft spot for the GCR (I am a member of the
MLST)!

There was an article on this in RAIL magazine about a year ago. I cant
remember the exact details (I'll dig it out & post the details) but there
is definately a consortium interested in this. The 'new' line would start
where the Oxford-Bletchley Line crosses the old formation. There is a spur
here which freight trains/ECS use into Aylesbury. It would be freight only
and the idea would be for lorries etc to get on the trains at an interchange
with the M6 ie not have to suffer the congestion of the M1/M25/M20. I think
they were spending 1992 planning & hoping to raise the finance in 1993.

Personally I think its a non-starter. There exist alternative routes (especially
if BR develop the small-wheel transporters) and with the current recession
in the UK, they would never raise the money.

Regards...
..........Ian

--
ADVANCE MICRO COMPUTERS LTD & Wolverton Rail | EMAIL: ianking@amicro.demon.co.uk
 PO Box 362, Olney, Nr.Milton Keynes,        |   or   ianking@lon40.nt.com  
    MK46 5ES, ENGLAND, UK.                   |
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Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jonathan@CS.Stanford.EDU (Jonathan Stone)
Subject: Re: Condensing Locos ...
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 01:07:07 GMT

During the Second World War, the Deutche Reichsbahn equipped
two subclasses of the Class 52 Kriegslok with condensing tenders
for operation in the Russian winter, instead of the normal `Wannentender',
which looks like a bathtub mounted on bogies topped by a coal bunker.

The two different classes of tenders varied in capacity and wheel
arrangement, but were visually very similar. I beleive both tenders were
indeed manufactured by Henschel.

But I think the DR had earlier experimental condensing tenders on a rebuilt
Class 18 2'C.    Does anyone know a better reference than Obermayer's
(spelling warning) Taschenbuch Deutche Dampflokomotiven? 
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ehr@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl)
Subject: Re: Old Railway Age?
Summary: copyright
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 04:14:30 GMT

In article <2794@tymix.Tymnet.COM>, romeo@niagara.Tymnet.COM (Michael Stimac) writes:
> In article <01GQSJ6BHQF6935GN1@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU> U93_PTUPACZE@VAXC.STEVENS-TECH.EDU (Prime Mover Software Development) writes:
> >I'm just trying to see what the interest would be in reprints of Railway Age 
> >magazine, circa 1940's-1950's.  A friend of mine has a collection and was 
> >thinking of reprinting them if people would want them... any takers?
> >
> 
> An enthusiastic "YES" from me. I love to be able to obtain
> such things.
> 
> Would he reprint the entire magazines, or just selected
> articles?
> 
> Michael Stimac


Well, Simmons-Boardman Publishing Co., which owns the copyright to
this material might have some opinions on this subject.  Of
course, the person with this idea could approach SB with the idea for
this subject to see if they would want to do it.  I don't think
they would take too kindly to someone doing this on their own.

-- 
"My other computer is a Nikon N8008." -- Ernest H. Robl
Ernest H. Robl (ehr@ecsvax)  Durham, NC, USA   +1  919   286-3845
                                         FAX:  +1  919   286-1696
This .signature exceeds plate C specifications (for rec.railroad fans)
From: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Hudson Leighton)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: U.S. railroad maps (topo maps)
Date: 8 Nov 92 03:05:01 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

I have had good luck finding RR right-of-ways by useing plat books for
indvidual countys.  Here in Minnesota the Historical socity has old plat books
on microfilm from 1850 to 1940,  

These tend to be on the 1 inch to the mile scale


UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!hudson
INET: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org
ICBM: Lat. 44.59 x lon. 93.13
HAM:  N0NMX  444.100 repeater
Advertisement: Try the Railway Post Office BBS (612) 377-2197 a Railfan BBS
From: Alan.Moorman@f31.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Alan Moorman)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Stupid People (Grade cro
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1992 13:57:22 -0600

X9>  > In article <16896AD4B.R1004@vmcms.csuohio.edu>, R1004@vmcms.csuohio.edu
X9>  > wrote:
X9>  >>
X9>  >> Last night's late news had a lovely picture of a car cut in half
X9>  >> by a freight train.  That's the third I've heard about this week
X9>  >> in northern Ohio.  What is it about flashing lights, gates, and
X9>  >> a locomotive that weighs more than they can imagine that these
X9>  >> people don't understand?

There was a piece on 20/20 (ABC-TV in the US) about this same subject,
which showed footage of a slow moving freight train hitting a semi truck
at a grade crossing.  Pretty impressive -- and, as I said, it was moving
pretty slowly (20 mph??)

X9>  >> Okay, I feel better - had to vent my speen somewhere!

I'm glad!  :-)

Alan.

 * OLX 2.2 * Unable to locate Chocolate!  Operator halted.

 * Origin: Dark Knight's Table (1:282/31)
From: drw@esl.com (Dave Waters)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Hopping trains for a ride
Date: 13 Nov 92 03:33:30 GMT
Followup-To: rec.railroad
Organization: ESL Inc.

It's a lot of fun to be sure, but unless you know how to work with trains
like a trainman, you shouldn't mess with it. Most of the accidents happen
to people who don't expect things like slack action (the slamming of the
cars together) and slips because of dirty and slick surfaces.

The SP treats it seriously. Listening to the PBX frequency out of Reno, NV,
a bum had fallen off a train and broken his leg. Trainmen reported it and
the PBX conversation was the PO (police officer) getting the details from
the dispatcher so he could go to the hospital and arrest the bum for
trespass.

Lighter side: Hanging around the Tehachapi loop one August afternoon we
counted more than 40 migrating immigrants moving north on a single
Westbound SP drag. There was one flat car with two flat truck trailers with
freshly turned RR wheelsets. About 20 men were sitting underneath those
trailers, all facing forward. Looked like Amtrak's latest cut-rate coach
class! But, man, those guys were stupid to sit under all that loose
hardware!!!

                 +-------------------------+
|  | |  |  |     | Dave Waters    WA6AWZ   |
+--+-+--+--+     | drw@esl.com             |
|  |||  |  |     | Compuserve: 73277,311   |
    |            +-------------------------+
    |
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: eshoben@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Ed Shoben)
Subject: Re: Why do New England Express trains slow down...
Organization: UIUC Department of Psychology
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 00:04:10 GMT

It's also the case that some stations are on a curve and thus may have speed restrictions.  For example, Bridgeport is on a very sharp curve and, at least in 
the days of the NY,NH & H, it had a 30 MPH speed limit, if I recall correctly
(My old employees timetable is at home).
From: x92ochs1@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Stupid People (Grade crossings)
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:27:34 EST
Distribution: na
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <1992Nov12.165118.15090@fs7.ece.cmu.edu>, wadams@spitz.ECE.CMU.EDU (William Adams) writes:
> 
> [discussion of grad crossing accidents]
> 
> 
>       A bit off the subject, but what's the deal with the "cow-catcher"
> on locomotives today?  Are there still giant unfenced herds in the
> west that require their use.  If so, why haven't herders made a big
> fuss over their cattle getting plowed?  Or is there cow-insurance that
> covers such train mishaps?  
>       If cattle are no longer a problem, maybe these devices should be
> renamed (and possibly redesigned) as "car-catchers".  Maybe a giant
> marshmellow or something.
> 
>       I would appreciate answers concerning the current need for 
> "cow-catchers".
> 
> 	Bill
> 	wadams@faraday.ece.cmu.edu

    Around Cassopolis, Michigan, The Grand Trunk Western occasionally has
  problems with cattle on the tracks.(anyone for some burgers?)

   Also, around Riverside, Michigan(several miles northeast of Benton Harbor,
 MI, horses are often a problem for CSX.

  Conclusion:
  Maybe they still have pilots on to prevent any objects or animals from 
flying up and injuring the crew.  

 Jeff

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: shawn@cars.com (Shawn Connelly)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: NRHS/N&S Streamliner
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 19:06:04 EST
Organization: Connelly Automation Research and Services
Reply-To: shawn@cars.com
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1

Riding the N/S MARTA line this morning, I saw the old N&S streamliner
sitting on a siding, all steamed up with the cars sitting on the next
line. Does anyone have any information on this train? Can tickets for
this ride be obtained? If so, where and how?

Thanks.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shawn Connelly                          | 
Connelly Automation Research & Services |  Go Colorado Rockies!
11555 Boxford Place                     |   The only undefeated team 
Alpharetta, GA 30302                    |    in the Nat'l League West!
(404) 751-1699                          |      
Internet: shawn@cars.com or shawn@csn.org; UUCP: ...!csn!sable!shawn
From: Alan.Moorman@f31.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Alan Moorman)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: magazine addresses?
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 10:44:04 -0600

Being new to this conference, and to the idea of actually pursuing my
interest in trains, I wonder if anyone hase a list of hobby-related
magainzes -- along with their subscription addresses?

If you, would you take time to post for me, and any other newbies?

Thank you for your kind attention...

Alan Moorman

 * OLX 2.2 * From Minnesota -- Land of the Giant Frozen Mosquito!

 * Origin: Dark Knight's Table (1:282/31)
From: b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Misspelling of "Amtrak" (was Re: Metroliners)
Date: 9 Nov 1992 20:19:38 GMT
Organization: lbl
Distribution: na
Reply-To: b_nbca@icarus.lbl.gov (Bruce Nordman)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.154

In article <1992Nov9.141054.14652@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>, johna@cbnewsj.cb.att.com
(john.a.welsh) writes:
|> In article <lfipggINNahd@news.bbn.com>, rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman) writes:
|> > how did the National Rail Passenger Corporation ever
|> > get the name "Amtrak" anyway?
|> 
|> Ron,
|> This is the story that I have heard, and as far as I know it is true:
|> 
|> The original name was a much more appropriate NARPAC, but it was
|> taken already, and Amtrak was their next choice.

Well, I'm sure glad they didn't pick NARPAC -- sounds like a
cold medicine or a political action committee.....

Bruce Nordman
B_Nordman@lbl.gov
From: yhshowie@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Howard Wharton)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: BUFFALO,NY TRAIN SHOW
Date: 12 Nov 92 00:45:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


  The Western New York Railway Historical Historical Society will be holding
its 11th Annual Buffalo Train and Toy Show on Saturday, November 21st and
Sunday, November 22nd,1992 at the main exhibit hall of the Buffalo &
Erie County Convention Center located at Fraanklin & Genesee Streets,
downtown Buffalo, NY. Time both days are from 10 AM - 5 PM. Admission
is $3.00 for adults and $1.50 foe children under 12.
From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: European trains
Date: 8 Nov 92 01:52:04 GMT
Organization: CWI, Amsterdam

In article <1992Nov6.195913.3782@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
 > 	As to info, I have before me the Thomas Cook European
 > Timetable of trains and ferries.
 > 
 > 	It has over 500 pages of schedules, and (by a rough guess)
 > several of the countries have at least as many scheduled trains as
 > Amtrak does. I could also see how often such fast trains as the TGV
 > were scheduled -- one per direction per _hour_.
Do not be deluded by the size of the time-table.  The Thomas Cook timetable
anly gives the most important routes and the most important trains.  For
instance, the national time-table for the Netherlands is about 800 pages.
All routes are served at least hourly, including some international routes
(e.g.  Amsterdam-Brussels, and Maastricht-Knokke, try to find these last two
in your atlas ;-)).  Many routes are served much more frequently.
 > 
 > 	There were also such interesting tidbits as car trains (like
 > Amtrak's Auto Train), which run between many of the major cities,
There are day services and night services (with sleepers).
 >                                                                   and
 > airport access (some major cities have direct rail access).
I know of Amsterdam, Brussels, Frankfurt, London Gatwick (Heathrow is served
by the Underground).


-- 
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn  amsterdam, nederland; e-mail: dik@cwi.nl
From: mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: NEC ramblings
Date: 7 Nov 92 12:42:33 GMT

Dave Pierson writes:

>Caught MARC local to Gaithersburg, odd to find myself on a powered Budd RDC
>set.

They just keep on going; a couple years back, MARC got some "fresh" ones
from NJT.  If you are lucky, 8913 will show up, still in B&O paint.

>Gaithersburg has a "RR Museum" at the station: work car, postal car, two
>Cabeese and semi stripped steamer (light 2-8-0) lettered for Buffalo Creek &
>Auley.

Buffalo Creek & Gauley, and it is the real #14 of Don Ball affection.  (#4
eventually went to the NS steam program and is now in wildly unprototypical
paint.)  It is ostensibly being restored, which would seem to imply that it
looked like hell before it showed up.
-- 
C. Wingate        + "The peace of God, it is no peace,
                  +    but strife closed in the sod.
mangoe@cs.umd.edu +  Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing:
tove!mangoe       +    the marv'lous peace of God."
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: leveret@warren.demon.co.uk (Nick Leverton)
ReplyTo: leveret@warren.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Condensing locos (was Re: compound locos ...)
Distribution: world
X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.19 $
Organization: Indexed; Access: Random.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 03:56:54 +0000

In article <7870@skye.ed.ac.uk> ken@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Ken Johnson) writes:

>#  Has anyone ever tried building a locomotive that tried to recondense
>#  water from the steam? It would seem that a closed cycle would be of
>#  great interest, given how quickly steam engines need to refill their
>#  water tanks. 
>
>Yes, the Metropolitan Railway in London did, at the end of the 19th
>century, because it was largely underground. 

The Met was, of course, electrified in 1905-1906 (going from memory).
However, again from memory, all "main line" loco's used underground in
London, on the Widened Lines and the Snow Hill link, were supposed to be
condensing right up until the end of steam in the mid 1960's. But I
remember reading that the condensers were very unpopular with crews, as
they led to the water in the tanks getting uncomfortably warm and
emulating a Turkish bath on the footplate, and were usually turned off
unless officialdom was present. Posters may remember the LNER's N7 0-6-2
condensing tank locomotives, one of which is preserved.

Nick Leverton
-- 
a politician is an arse upon
which everything has sat except a man           e.e.cummings
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: compound locos (was Re: High Speed Rail Query)
Date: 8 Nov 92 20:17:56 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1dicm2INN3l8@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema) writes:
> 
>    I know Garretts were used in Australia and Africa (still?), but I can't think
> of a North American railway which used them.  Is there any particular reason 
> why it didn't catch on in the USA?  

The Garretts were basically the British expression of the articulated locomotive.
They were intended mainly for export service on the narrow-gauge colonial lines
where presumably the pivoting engines gave the flexibility needed for sharp curves
and tight clearances.

The Garretts were used for "mainline" service, but in the both the mainline and
helper niches where the articulated locomitives were successful in the US, the
track alignment and clearances allowed the Mallet scheme with only the front engine 
pivoting at the rear, which was closer to the US standard practice.

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...
but no way officially representing:   uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
Commodore, Engineering Department     domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
From: rh@loral.uucp (Randy Houk )
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Railroad info on CD-ROM
Date: 12 Nov 92 00:59:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: loral.1992Nov12.005941.27666
Distribution: na
Organization: Loral Instrumentation


	Does anybody have any information on the availability
	of railroad magazines, databases or other cool stuff
	being available yet on CD-ROM?

	Randy Houk
	San Diego Railroad Museum Library
	rh@loral.cts.com
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: wadams@spitz.ECE.CMU.EDU (William Adams)
Subject: Re: Stupid People (Grade crossings)
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:51:18 GMT


[discussion of grad crossing accidents]


      A bit off the subject, but what's the deal with the "cow-catcher"
on locomotives today?  Are there still giant unfenced herds in the
west that require their use.  If so, why haven't herders made a big
fuss over their cattle getting plowed?  Or is there cow-insurance that
covers such train mishaps?  
      If cattle are no longer a problem, maybe these devices should be
renamed (and possibly redesigned) as "car-catchers".  Maybe a giant
marshmellow or something.

      I would appreciate answers concerning the current need for 
"cow-catchers".

	Bill
	wadams@faraday.ece.cmu.edu
From: luebeckd@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Ken Luebeck)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Hopping trains for a ride
Date: 11 Nov 1992 06:29:55 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Reply-To: luebeckd@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Ken Luebeck)
NNTP-Posting-Host: o231-30.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

In article <1992Nov9.215011.169@gems.vcu.edu> hleaves@gems.vcu.edu writes:
> I used to know a group of people who hopped freight trains for free  
rides and a
> thrill. I presume that this is very illegal. What are the laws regarding  
doing
> this? I've heard that the caboose crew is allowed to shoot people trying  
to
> jump their trains. Is this true? It seems like rather a severe measure  
to
> prevent kids catching a ride. Why do they do this? 
> 

I do not know of anywhere where the crew in the caboose (assuming you can  
find a caboose) is allowed to shoot at people trying to catch a ride.

Yes, hopping rides on trains is illegal. However, when one considers how  
dangerous such activities are, the fact that it is illegal ought to be  
irrelevant. Indeed hobos have been prevalent on U.S. freight trains  
(especially in the Great Depression, but there are still many), and much  
folklore surrounds hobos. However, let me point out a few of the dangers  
of hoping rides on trains.
1) If one misses the ladder while boarding a (slowly) moving train,  
his/her feet would next meet the wheels, which have been referred to as  
"sausage slicers".
2) When the train starts moving, all of the couplers lock as if the train  
were a series of dominoes falling rapidly from the locomotive. This  
jarring action can and has knocked people off trains, or worse, into the  
gap between two cars cars of a train.
3) Once in motion, the gradualness with which the train picks up speed can  
be deceiving. If, for instance, someone merely wanted a short ride, and  
safely boards a slowly moving (or momentarily stopped) train, by the time  
he or she notices how fast the train is going, it is often too late to  
jump.

Obviously there are other dangers. Playing around with several hundred  
tons of often fast moving equipment is bound to be dangerous. One wouldn't  
play out in the middle of a highway or on an airport runway; why take  
chances on the railways? Yet, people do so every day.

If this isn't enough to discourage the would be hobo, consider the  
emotional impact on the life of an engineer who finds out that he was  
powerless to prevent someone from being killed by the train he was  
running.

> ** Hugh L. Eaves [.sig deleted]     

Ken Luebeck
From: Alan.Moorman@f31.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Alan Moorman)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Railroad Computer progra
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1992 13:53:20 -0600

Subj: Railroad Computer program      Conf: (51) Rec.Railro
___------------------------------------------------------------------------
EVH>  I happen to be a legitimate owner of Railroad Dispatcher, and have had it
EVH>  for quite a few years.  However, my version is for the PC.  A couple of
EVH>  years ago, the company closed down due to lack of sales.  I haven't the

That sounds interesting!!  Since the company is out of business, would
you consider sending me a copy of the software?  I'm usually pretty
strict about that stuff, but if they are defunct, I don't suppose making
copies could be considered a rip-off.

Alan.

 * OLX 2.2 * Unable to locate Chocolate!  Operator halted.

 * Origin: Dark Knight's Table (1:282/31)