HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: batemanc@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Mad Chris)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0.
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:37:31 GMT

juola@bruno.cs.colorado.edu (Patrick Juola) comments:

>If you can find a copy of the first edition of Cyberpunk, I think it's
>got about the cleanest, simplest, and best designed game mechanics of
>anything available.

I'm not trying to flame you, but I think you vastly overrate first edition
Cyberpunk. One of the biggest flaws with this ( And second edition ) is that
high attributes greatly outvalue skills. With a skill of +10, you are supposed
to be an expert in that skill - but if you only have an Attribute of, say, 4,
then someone with an attribute of 10 and a skill of +5 is better than you.
This is a rally stupid problem, which I admit I'm not too bothered about
rectifying in my Cyberpunk game, because the mechanics themselves ( apart
from the dreadful penetration problem ) aren't too much of a problem in
play, where the role-playing ( role-playing? In Cyberpunk? I kid you not. )
starts to take over.

But I think you`re way off base with your assesment of first edition 
Cyberpunk. If this is going to become an argument, we can move this to
rec.arts.frp.advocacy, if you want. If you don't want to discuss it, we
can drop it right now.

Mad Chris.
From: gvbraun@vipunen.hut.fi (Toni Kotinurmi)
Subject: Characters ( Was;Re: GMs: historical politics )
Keywords: improvisation
Reply-To: gvbraun@vipunen.hut.fi (Toni Kotinurmi)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:15:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.184259.20886@mcs.kent.edu> adray@Chaos.mcs.kent.edu (Adam Dray) writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug19.003235.1@wharton.upenn.edu>, millerl@wharton.upenn.edu writes:

]..[
>|> Do you detail factions, nations, guilds, individuals? 

>I detail nothing.  However, I go into a game with a feel of what
>each key character is like.  My campaign has a life of its own
>sometimes, and I just mop up afterwards.

So, I think it is time to ask; anybody written up some nice character-
types ? Just what the characters are like, their likes, dislikes etc...
It might be nice to have some characters handy sometime; readily
in their files ( and it interests me also to see what other people
write up about characters ).

I don't just mean some mega-power-ultra-super-characters, but a standard
pub-owner with his own style or phrases or... I have this journey-frp
going on now ( GM'ing ) and I am running out of descriptions of _normal_
persons. I have them on scraps of paper, I just write 'em up when
I figure out something in bus, during lunch or whatever when it occurs
to me. Anybody written characters up in computers ? I mean much more than
some strength/fight/etc stats ( which I usually omit and just pick from
standard data or roll up if somebody asks or if they are in character-
description--but usually I have only one stat if even that readily made ).

Or is there a net.normal.persons.with.their.own.personal.afflictions.etc.book ?
( NO NO NO, I have no time to collect such book, sorry )

>any political situation, the characters can either get into the
>thick of things, or they can remain at the periphery.  Both methods
>have their purpose.

>					Adam.

Toni
From: ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steelratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steelratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steelratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pier)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Diceless or Senseless?
Date: 7 Aug 92 15:12:08 GMT
	<1992Aug6.031804.1190@news.unomaha.edu>
	<1992Aug6.200134.27851@news.columbia.edu>
	<1992Aug7.033441.14754@news.unomaha.edu>
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
Old-Message-ID: <RATINOX.92Aug7111208@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu>
In-reply-to: PCHEM14@Zeus.unomaha.edu's message of 7 Aug 92 03:34:41 GMT
X-Get-A-Clue: Have two, they're small.
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>>>>> On 7 Aug 92 03:34:41 GMT, PCHEM14@Zeus.unomaha.edu (FALL88) said:

F> In my opinion, when roleplaying removes random elements, it gives
F> players more player knowledge.  And when you know the truth, and are
F> just showing how your character reacts, it's no longer roleplaying.  I
F> call it acting.  Some think this is an insult, other think this is just
F> a statement.  Take it at face value.

[sarcastic mode ON]

A revelation! Role-playing isn't playing the part of a character! That's
acting, not role-playing.

[sarcastic mode OFF]

If role-playing isn't acting out a part, then what is it?

--Rat

||||| | | | |  |  |  |   |   |    |    |    |   |   |  |  |  |  | | | | | |||||
                                                   __        ___ 
Richard Pieri, Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat/   | /| / /   | The Worlds
Internet: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu   /__  |/ |/ / /| | Welfare Works
    UUCP: ...!northeastern.edu!meceng!ratinox  /   | /| / / / | | Association:
  BITNET: UA_RLP@NUHUB{.BITNET}               /__  |/ |/ / /  | | I will solve
  USNail: 14 Westdale RD  Holbrook, MA 02343 /   | /| / / /___| | any problem
 ICBMnet: 42 deg 1 min N, 71 deg 0 min W    /    |/ |/ /_//_____| for you.
From: hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Bass Ackwards GURPS Attribute Modifier Method
Keywords: GURPS Attribute SPRUG
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:23:40 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle


 > I do feel that approaches like this are a little off of the target,
 > though, because it tries to deal with characters as the embodiment of
 > a race rather than as distinct individuals.  Individuals can vary
 > significantly from the norm, and I can see no reason to have some sort
 > of points penalty/bonus to try to encourage characters to conform to
 > the "averages."  A ST 8 Dwarf or a ST 17 Dwarf is just as valid as a
 > ST 12 Dwarf when considering individual characters.  The points need
 > to stick religiously to their stated purpose of ensuring character
 > balance.  ST 17 is of equal use to Dwarf, Human, or Lizard Man, and
 > the points should reflect it.

Well then, I appear to have a dispute with your reasoning. A race has evolved
a distribution of abilities for a specific reason. If a race is particularily
swift, then there is a reason for it. If another race is weak, then there is
a reason for that. Attributes don't just happen in nature.

My point is that a character IS an embodiment of it's race. ST 18 may be of
more utility to a Dwarf than a Human for a variety of reasons. Perhaps the
race needs greater ST because they are underground dwellers and spend a lot
of time digging, or metalsmithing.         

Carrying the reasoning to an extreme, you are saying that ST is equally useful
to a Giant, a Human, and a Halfling. Given the same ST score, the Giant would
be immobilized, the human normal, and the Halfling completely muscle bound.
I don't think the flaw is in the modifiers. The flaw is in how the attributes
effect the different biological forms.

-- 
 Bob Hall, Systems Analyst | "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
 Boeing Computer Services  | Then give up. No use being a damn fool about it."
From: inb@creare.creare.com (Ian Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:19:23 GMT
Reply-To: inb@creare.UUCP (Ian Brown)
Organization: Creare Inc., Hanover, NH

In article <1992Aug19.161515.58272@cc.usu.edu> sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six) writes:
>In article <Bt6tur.34D.1@cs.cmu.edu>, cscott+@CS.CMU.EDU 
> (Curtis Scott) writes:
>> As a long-time improvisational referee, I have a point to make here. 
>> You are implying that the players' participation in creating the story
>> is somehow a bad thing (although I will grant that you have not said that
>> explicitly). I happen to think that it's a very good thing, and in fact
>> a specific advantage of the improvisational style of refereeing.

As another improvisational referee, I have to agree with Curtis on this one.
The two PBeM games that I've run that have been most successful (both are
ongoing - one for almost four years) have been profoundly affected by player
actions, thoughts, etc.

>I hope you have followed the rest of the thread, cuz I'm going to say 
>something that I said in the other posts. Remember the example of the 
>floorboards? The players find the gem BECAUSE they search, not because
>the gem was there to be found. That is not how it works in reality. So 
>in that way, yes, I am saying player impact on the scenario is bad.

The decision about whether or not a gem is there is made because they search -
the existance or non-existance of the gem before the decision to search under
the floorboards was, essentially, indeterminate.  The GM hadn't decided that no
gem was there, nor had he/she decided that it wasn't.  In other words, we have
a situation where looking for something determines whether or not its there to
look for.

This may be unrealistic, true, but it allows the GM to modify the scenario -
which may be necessary to make it more realistic.  If it makes sense for a gem
to be there (this is a bad example for making a case, but I'll stick with it,
since it is the example we're talking about), the GM can put it there.  I've
certainly had occasions where the players have thought of something that I
hadn't thought of that seemed to add something to the game.  By adding it, I
made the game better.

-- 
Ian Brown
inb@creare.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: adelekta@kentvm.kent.edu
Subject: Re: music and roleplaying
Organization: Kent State Univ.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:11:53 GMT

 
 My favorite GM frequently uses music during gaming sessions.  As background
music, I find it rather annoying unless played very quietly (we do use
background music while playing Amber. Usually classical, to create ambiance.)
 
 The most effective and fun use of music I've experienced was while playing
Cthulu Now. It was run by a two GM's, and when things got scary, one would put
the soundtrack from Alien on the stereo. Quite a nice effect.
 
 Using movie soundtracks as background music seems to work pretty well for my
group - Alien is good, so is Phantom of the Opera. Other music we've played
with success is Enigma (much more upbeat than straight Gregorian Chants), and
classical music of all sorts.
 Background music can be nice, but using music to highlight events is as time-
consuming as it is fun. (A good job for a co-GM.)
 
anne
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: mavra@cpac.washington.edu (Peter D. Adkison)
Subject: Re: FRP goals versus GMing
Organization: Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:06:17 GMT

My buddy Loren Miller contrasts playing goals and GMing goals and asks
what people get out of roleplaying.

I play and GM for radically different reasons.

Playing is not very important to me.  I *enjoy* it, but it's not any
sort of religious experience or anything.  I like suspension of
disbelief, which requires good roleplaying, and I play very
competitively--not so much against others or against the GM, but to do
the very best I can do with my character.  Setting a goal and trying
to get there is what I enjoy.

But GMing is much more important.  GMing to me is an art form.  Trying
to explain why I like to GM is like a musician trying to explain why
he or she likes to play music, or like an artist trying to justify
painting.  It's deep, it's consuming, it's appealing to the
perfectionist in me.  At first I was satisfied in sharing my wares
with my friends and people I'd meet at conventions.  Eventually it
became obvious that I had to try sharing it with the world.

				--Mavra!
				  Peter D. Adkison
				  Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
				  mavra@blegga.cac.washington.edu

The above internet address should be used for e-mail if it is
different from the e-mail address in the header.

Xref: sparky rec.games.frp.misc:4229 rec.games.board:8016
From: ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.board
Subject: Re: Strategic Fantasy Battle Simulator
Keywords: Strategy, Fantasy
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:12:51 GMT
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.board
Organization: Indiana University Astrophysics, Bloomington, IN

In article <3371@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall) writes:
>Er, now that I think about it, I guess I didn't define well enough what I
>was looking for in the battle simulation department. Something like one of
>the old Prestags games from SPI with the inclusion of various humanoids and
>the magical accutrements would be good. The units would represent entire
>formations from the miniatures games. (~100-500 creatures.) The tactical
>battles would be fought out on an abstracted terrain map whenever the armies
>encountered each other on the strategic scale. Is Dragon Pass anything like
>this?              

It's on a somewhat larger scale than Prestags - more of a strategic scale.
Comparable to that old "War of the Rings" game.  I once just modified Prestags
to handle fantasy stuff, then decided that miniatures rules handled the
situation better and scrapped the project.  In Dragon Pass, I think that each
unit is of order 1000 creatures, although I don't remember for sure.

Note that it's set in Glorantha, so there's a different set of
humanoids than your average Tolkien based herd.

	Alec
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly)
Subject: Re: Pendragon
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 00:34:16 GMT

v124pz9t@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (David Cheng, using Mark S Cheng's acct) writes:

>In article <1992Aug13.151450.4819@news.cs.brandeis.edu>, littlefield@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes...
>> 
>>	I've been kind of out of the rpg scene for a while, but I'd like to
>>know the status on the rpg Pendragon. Is it still in print? If so, how much
>>does it go for these days, and where could one pick up a copy?

>Pendragon is alive and well these days.  I'm not sure what it retails
>for ( $24 ?).  The best part is that Chaosium is giving it more
>product support, ie more emphasis on the production schedule.

Yeah, I've seen a lot more supplements for this game in the last year
than there ever seemed to be before. I think Pendragon is one of the 
less well known RPG's out there. If you like combat and roleplaying in
one , this is the game for you. 

Axly
From: dunning@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (GALACTIC COMMANDER)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 19 Aug 92 01:19:22 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

The problem I have with this is that people seem to be making up examples
to suit their arguements:

PLAYERS:  I look uunder the floorboards for a gem.
IMPROV:  [Sounds reasonable]  You find the gem under a loose board.
MODULE:  [Examines notes]  Sorry you can't locate any loose boards.

And on the flip side.

PLAYERS:  Let's check out the woods to the north.
IMPROV:  [Thinking for a sea.]  As you approach the darkened woods.....
MODULE:  Sorry my map and notes don't go there so you can't enter the woods.

The best method IMO is to use the following.

	1)  Think of the general thrust of the nights game.
	2)  Make up small outline notes of possible locations where the PCs
		may visit to help get throuugh the nights game.
	3)  Get good list of NPCS (a must since they make or break a game)
	4)  Wherever the PCs go you are now ready - so run with it....

If the PCs go someplace where you are not planned then you have some 
interesting NPCs they can meet.  If they stick generally to things then
a very good skeleton has already be pre-arranged - including props, and
other extras that create a good atmosphere.

A good GM must be ready to embrace both methods - otherwise the game suffers.
Pre-advancement means good maps and other visuual aids.  Good Improv means
that the characters don't feel they are trapped in a boring module and
can't really stop where they are going.

Chip

-----------------------------\_/-----------------------------
 Elwood H Dunning III         |     I am a pirate, I don't
  GALACTIC COMMANDER          |           DO decency!!
--

-----------------------------\_/-----------------------------
 Elwood H Dunning III         |     I am a pirate, I don't
  GALACTIC COMMANDER          |           DO decency!!
From: gt9405b@prism.gatech.EDU (Lord Goodgulf the Ma-a-a-agical Wizard)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: (amber question at bottom)  about Chaosites
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:40:04 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <darknite.714026978@camelot> darknite@camelot.bradley.edu (John S. Novak III) writes:
>Its so consistent through the game, though, that I tend to doubt
>its an error.  The whole deal with the Chaosites' (Courtesans'?)
>stats seems unfair to me.  The Courts are supposed to be as
>'real' as Amber, and every bit as powerful.  Why is Chaos rank
>lower than Amber rank?
>
>Personally, if'n I were to run a game, I'd change the stats
>systems to Ranked, Family, and Citizen, rather than Ranked,
>Amber, and Chaos.  Family rank being the standard for members of
>both ruling families, and Citizen being the rank for a citizen of
>either place.
>
>I'd also make the Logrus powers equal the Pattern powers in both
>points and abilities.  But that's just me.

   Actually, I think it's fairly consistent with the books that Amber rank
is higher than Chaos rank.  Think about it.  There's all kinds of Great Houses
(or whatever they're called) in the Courts, with whole bunches of nobles.  Now
if these people were, on average, about as good as an Amberite, they'd have
mopped the place up long ago.  Also, Corwin, after going through all kinds of
hell, barely even paused to take out one of their best swordsmen (albeit the
Chaos Lord was playing fair, but still......)

   As to the Logrus, that's more detailed in the second series which I don't
remember very well.  But remember, they really couldn't move through Shadow
very well (they _might_ have been able to move themselves, but I don't remember
if that's supported) without the black road.  And I do believe that the books
made it out to be less powerful.  So it might be hard to fit that into the
cosmology, but it certainly fits the stories.
                                       Lord Goodgulf the Wizard

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: rnmg1200@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (A Lady and her Walrus)
Subject: Re: Supers and Heavy Weapons : was Re: Gurps Supers
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 10:47:25 GMT

In article <77543@ut-emx.uucp> cwagner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Christian Wagner) writes:
>In article <Bss5t9.BD3@rice.edu> york@owlnet.rice.edu (Earl Dana York) writes:
>>If you're willing to spend the ~$15 on GURPS timetravel, you can get the
>>complete rules on an advantage called Snatcher (?)
>>In a nutshell, for 100pts, you could `reach' and, with an IQ roll, get anything
>>that weighs less than 5 pounds your character can concieve.  Time is 1 sec
>>if you want try and use it.  I made up a character called GREP using it.
>>:) to all you Unix dudes.
>
>I've got that; but it's not quite what I had in mind.......
>
>GREP, eh? I was working on a character once called EMACS; he was a GURPS Super
>with two level of Magic Power (old system) and one point in every super skill.
>He wasn't particuarly good at any one thing (except writing; he was an author
>in his other ID), but you could use him for anything you wanted......
>
>Sick stuff, eh? Kinda like r.a.c.'s Legion of Net.Heroes.....

Well, one GURPS player I knew created a Super (forget his name) who had a
Time Travel power that worked on other only, with the limitation, touch only.
He used it when in combat ("I'm gonna knock you into next Tuesday...")

The Walrus
From: dlaird@terapin.com (Delbert Laird)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Ala genre....
Date: 16 Aug 92 19:34:25 PST
Organization: BBS


I was wondering what you loyal .frp.misc'ers think about the current trends in
roleplaying games. As a hack designer, I've currently been working on a game
similiar in nature to the anime/manga work "Appleseed" with quite a few
variations in theme...but I'm beginning to see some futility in marketing such
a game (and I had SUCH high hopes).

What I'm curious about is what you think....What types of games do you wish
were more prevelant?...What types of games would you like see or play?...Is the
trend with cyberware/magic combo being played upon too much or are you yearning
for more?...etc.

Anything you can contribute to this topic would be appreciated.

dlaird@terapin.com

MAELSTROM HOBBY
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: ba446@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Todd M. Hanson)
Subject: Movement Rates
Reply-To: ba446@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Todd M. Hanson)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 09:07:03 GMT


This doesnt apply to any specific games system, as I need the numbers in
miles per day, but does anyone out there know how many miles per day (in
normal traval) the following can achieve in a day?

a walking man
a riding/war horse
a wagon
different sizes/styles of ships
 
Help would be appreciated! 
 
Thanks.. Todd

-- 
* Todd Hanson                              ba446@cleveland.freenet.edu  *
*                                                                       *
*     "No woman's worth a bullet between the eyes.. "                   *
*          "Depends on who's eyes.. and which woman."    'Bugsy'        *