HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nico@cats.ucsc.edu (Paul S Toney)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Not desperately seeking Intermedia anymore
Date: 28 Aug 92 06:31:01 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu



	OK - thanks for everyone's response on the Intermedia application.

	Email and post responses indicate that Intermedia was an A/UX v1.0      product and is no longer supported by Brown Unversity/IRIS, or Apple;  nor      does it work with A/UX v2 or 3, whichever is the new one.

	SO! is there a similar program - OTHER THAN Hypercard! - for doing      nice hypertext on the Mac?  My main interest is university-level study and      research in the humanities.

	I've been thinking of writing my own application, actually, which would support links between bitmaps, PICT files, text files, and QuickTime movies -
but before I dive in, I want to see if there is anything out there or in        development!  Again, any suggestions, comments would be much-ly appreciated by  the addressee at nico@cats.ucsc.edu.

-- 
nico@cats.ucsc.edu-------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: WESCHAP@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
Subject: electronic fictions wanted
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 02:30:39 GMT

 
I am currently trying to develop a course on hypertext fictions (poetry
included), and am looking for material.  Does anyone know of any out there
that are available for such a course (either commerically, as shareware, or
free for use with permission?  I know about pretty much everything offered by
Eastgate Systems, Jim Rosenberg's Intergrams, Richard Gess's Mahasukha Halo,
Stuart Moulthrop's Forking Paths and Chaos, the hyperfictions in the
issue of Writing on the Edge on hypertext, and the hyperfictions in the latest
issue of Perforations.  Can anybody suggest other sources?  I've heard of
some work of this type being done by people associated with the Well, but
I don't know how to get in touch with anyone there; I've also heard of a
writer named Judy Malloy, possibly associated with the Well (but I'm not
sure about that), but I don't know how to get in touch with her either, or
how to get hold of any of her work exept for the piece that appeared in
Perforations.  Can anyone supply me with addresses for any of these people,
electronic addresses preferred?  Finally, can anyone suggest useful
historical material that might be of interest in such a class (must-read
sources on maohr figures like Ted Nelson or Doug Englebart, for instance,
or useful overviews of the computer science issues involved?  Any assistance
anyone can give me would me much appreciated.  Reply here or direct to
my address below.
Thank you,
Wes Chapman
Illinois Wesleyan University
P.O. Box 2900
Bloomington IL 61702-2900
bitnet:  weschap@uiucvmd
internet:  weschap@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: robertso@syd.dit.CSIRO.AU (John Robertson)
Subject: Use of hypertext/media in the pharmaceutical industry
Organization: CSIRO Division of Info Tech, Sydney, Australia
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 06:54:18 GMT


I am interested in learning about the use of Hypertext/media
within the pharmaceutical industry.

Does anyone out there in "alt.hypertext land" know of any systems
being developed, of organisations currently using such tools,
or research being conducted in this area?

In particular, I am interested in the use of these systems
to assist government agencies manage the licensing of drugs.
If you have any information about such endeavours, I would
appreciate it if you would pass it on.

Thank you in advance for whatever info you care to share,

John  Robertson
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------
John Robertson
CSIRO, Division of Information Technology,
PO Box 1599, North Ryde, New South Wales 2113, AUSTRALIA
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: robertso@syd.dit.CSIRO.AU (John Robertson)
Subject: re: use of hypertext/media in the pharmaceutical industry
Organization: CSIRO Division of Info Tech, Sydney, Australia
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 03:00:17 GMT

[I wasn't able to post my reply via netnews, so hopefully this 
will get thru via email.  re-post if possible. thanks.  steve]

There has been much interest in applying hypertext technology to
"CANDA" (Computer Assisted New Drug Application) in the US; 
providing access to several hundred volumes of information
(text documents, images, data, etc.) has become increasingly
overwhelming on paper.  FDA has been encouraging electronic
submissions, but as yet has set no standards.  typically, CANDAs
have ranged from a hodgepodge of word processing and data diskettes
to all-optical systems to systems with integrated sets of documents
and applications.  companies have used Guide, FrameMaker and Interleaf
(and probably other ht tools) to prototype and deliver such systems.
as most companies discover, such systems are also of immense
value internally to look at, analyze, and understand one's own
information. ...

I'd be interested also in continuing the conversation with others who
are working in this area.

Steve Weyer
weyer@apple.com (though I'm not still working for Apple)
Janssen Research Foundation (a Johnson&Johnson company)
Washington Crossing, NJ

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------
John Robertson
CSIRO, Division of Information Technology,
PO Box 1599, North Ryde, New South Wales 2113, AUSTRALIA
From: John_Maxwell@mindlink.bc.ca (John Maxwell)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Re: Interaction with a hypertext
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:35:56 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

My impression of how a hypertext should be (ideally, anyway) is an endless sort
of "comments in the margins" sort of discourse between the first author of the
work and then subsequent reader-authors. Jay David Bolter, in his book "Writing
Space" talks about the breakdown of traditional ideas of authorship and the
repurcussions this has for the kinds of rhetoric we're used to.

I have yet to see a hypertext system that makes it so easy for a reader to add
to the text that his or her comments become part of the text for the next
reader.
                                -JMax
                                john_maxwell@mindlink.bc.ca
From: nico@cats.ucsc.edu (Paul S Toney)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Interaction with a hypertext
Date: 30 Aug 1992 22:52:44 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu



	Question: I have this very general concern about the use of a hypertext
system.  Is its primary feature the ability to travel quickly and relationaly
from one text/idea/context to another, and to find related subjects easily;  or
is the hypertext application a tool for integrating a vast set of varying media
concerning a particular topic, ie, for the creation of a context?

	A related question would be, what is more important: for the user to be
able to ADD to the hypertext, and edit links;  or to simply find a particular
tidbit of information and then leave, nice and simple?

	In educational terms, is the hypertext a pedagogical tool or a research
engine?  In a university project I did, I found that creating the hypertext
system, researching the material, and most importantly meditating on the links
I wanted to create, was far more educational than it might be for someone using
the finished project.  I see hypertext in this way as a more research-oriented
tool.

-- 
nico@cats.ucsc.edu-------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: jdugger@lust.reed.edu (Jay Dugger)
Subject: Xanadu EMail address
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 21:13:07 GMT


	Does anyone have it? If so, I'd sure appreciate knowing what it  
is, as I've forgotten it.  Thanks.

Jay Dugger
jdugger@reed.edu
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Re: Desperately seeking Intermedia
From: morris@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Ted Morris)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 16:36:49 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Cincinnati

In article <17gse7INNrh0@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> nico@cats.ucsc.edu (Paul S Toney) writes:
>
>
>    I'm looking for a copy of the Macintosh hypertext application Intermedia.
>
>    It was developed at Brown University for use in their Literature
>department. 

I had the impression it was only a mini-based UNIX product.  Would love
to be set straight--anyone with info please share!  Thanks.

Theodore Allan (Ted) Morris, University of Cincinnati Medical Center,
513-558-0177V, 558-0758F, MORRIS@UCUNIX.SAN.UC.EDU, MORRISTA@UC.EDU, 
NTS WB8VNV.  Call me up and I'll talk data to ya!
From: schwabe@inf.puc-rio.br (Daniel Schwabe)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Re: Desperately seeking Intermedia
Date: 27 Aug 92 13:14:37 GMT
Organization: Departamento de Informatica    PUC-Rio
X-Xxdate: Thu, 27 Aug 92 13:12:45 GMT
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6C25B1D9F011802@mac-dan.inf.puc-rio.br>
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
X-Posted-From: mac-dan.inf.puc-rio.br
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <17gse7INNrh0@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> Paul S Toney,
nico@cats.ucsc.edu writes:
>    I'm looking for a copy of the Macintosh hypertext application
Intermedia.
>
Yes, it was developed at Brown (IRIS), and is commercially sold. It runs
on AU/X.
Send e-mail to  Paul Kahn (pdk@iris.brown.edu), he will be able to direct
you to the appropriate persons...

Daniel Schwabe                  Dept. de Informatica, PUC-Rio
Tel: +55-21-529 9544/274 4449   R. M. de S. Vicente, 225
Fax: +55-21-511 5645            Rio de Janeiro, RJ 22453-900, Brasil
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: var@spirit.wpd.sgi.com (Victor A. Riley)
Subject: Re: Desperately seeking Intermedia
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 04:32:21 GMT

Seeing as I was one of the developers that helped make IRIS Intermedia
a product let me try to clear up some of this confusion.

IRIS Intermedia was designed and built to run under Apple A/UX version
1.1 or 1.1.1.  It does not run under A/UX 2.0 or 3.0 or any future
version of A/UX.  Since IRIS is/was a non-profit organization and we
got no funding to do the port to A/UX 2.0 we never did the port.  It is 
also not supported anymore since there is no one left to support the
software.  

IRIS Intermedia was used for more than just George Landow's literature
classes, Peter Heywood's biology class also used it and several other
sites began using it for the Continents of Knowledge project.  I'm sure
there are still a few sites out there refusing to upgrade to A/UX 2.0
simply because they want to continue using Intermedia.

Paul is the proper contact for those interested in obtaining a copy of
IRIS Intermedia.  His e-mail is pdk@iris.brown.edu and he may still
have a few copies left.  The hard part will be in obtaining A/UX 1.1.1
to run the system. 

As for answering your latest question you might try checking out
Eastgate System's 'StorySpace' application for the Mac, contact
Mark Bernstein (7614626@COMPUSERVE.COM) for more information.  You
might also look ingo Peter Gloor's 'Cybermap' application.  You can
reach him at gloor@ptt.lcs.mit.edu.  Other than those two, I'm not aware
of any other fantastic hypertext application running on the Mac --- other 
than Hypercard.  I have heard rumors that there might be a port of EBT's
DtnaText product to the Mac.  If so, then that would surely be the way to go.

	Victor Riley
	Hypertext Engineer
	var@sgi.com
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: mstringh@ent1.ent.ncsu.edu (Mike Stringham)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Hypertext For Unix
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:49:13 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Dept. of Entomology - NCSU, Raleigh, NC
Originator: mstringh@ent1.ent.ncsu.edu

I need information on a simple hypertexting program for use with
text-based UNIX platforms.  We have no GUI capabilities on the systems
that hypertexted material would be distributed to.  I have some
experience with hypertext, but would prefer software that does not
have a steep learning curve.  In other words the hypertext documents
need to be easy to assemble and easy to use.

Thanks.
From: luj@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (John Lu)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Needed: Hypertext development tool on VMS platform
Date: 31 Aug 92 00:36:31 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computing Network


I am looking for a commercially available package on VAX/VMS platform
that supports the hypertext development.  Any relevant information
is greatly appreciated.

Please reply to hhs@cs.purdue.edu, thanks a lot.

hhs@cs.purdue.edu
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: fogel@jester.usask.ca (Earl Fogel)
Subject: Re: Hypertext For Unix
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:54:57 GMT

In article <2924379439.6.demoep@psilink.com> "Ernest Perez" <demoep@psilink.com> writes:
>>FROM:   Mike Stringham <mstringh@ent1.ent.ncsu.edu>
>>I need information on a simple hypertexting program for use with
>>text-based UNIX platforms.  We have no GUI capabilities on the systems
>>that hypertexted material would be distributed to.  I have some
>>experience with hypertext, but would prefer software that does not
>>have a steep learning curve.  In other words the hypertext documents
>>need to be easy to assemble and easy to use.
>
>Take a look at MaxThink, the lean, mean, Zen approach to hypertext.  
>Some folks call it crude and simplistic; others call it elegant.  
>Depends on your family values, I guess. MaxThink has several MS-DOS 
>versions for foreground and TSR operation.  Also a new Unix version 
>($89 cheap), it's based on the HYTELNET port of MaxThink to the VAX.  

You can get the Unix Hytelnet hypertext browser for free via anonymous ftp
from access.usask.ca (128.233.3.1) in the /pub/hytelnet directory, and
from ftp.unt.edu (129.120.1.1) in the /pub/library/hytelnet directory.

The main difference between my software and the MaxThink software are:
they support more types of links (eg. links to a particular line number
or a particular search string within a file), while my software supports
links which are telnet commands, so you can use it to connect to other
systems.

To see the Hytelnet software in action, telnet to access.usask.ca
and login as hytelnet (all lowercase, no password required).


Earl Fogel
-------------------------------------------------------------------
fogel@sask.usask.ca		Computing Services, Room 56 Physics
Phone: (306) 966-4861		University of Saskatchewan
Fax:   (306) 966-4938		Saskatoon, Sask. CANADA, S7N 0W0
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: fs@cs.scarolina.edu (Faisal Siddiqi)
Subject: Re: Interaction with a hypertext
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date:  2 Sep 92 02:27:21 GMT

nico@cats.ucsc.edu (Paul S Toney) writes:



>	A related question would be, what is more important: for the user to be
>able to ADD to the hypertext, and edit links;  or to simply find a particular
>tidbit of information and then leave, nice and simple?

>	In educational terms, is the hypertext a pedagogical tool or a research
>engine?  In a university project I did, I found that creating the hypertext
>system, researching the material, and most importantly meditating on the links
>I wanted to create, was far more educational than it might be for someone using
>the finished project.  I see hypertext in this way as a more research-oriented
>tool.

I agree. Hypertext used like a book is great, but you're not fully
utilizing the potential of hypertext unless the hypertext "user" can
actually change the hypertext also. Without this capability, hypertext
is no better than many computer based training programs that allow
non-linear instruction. It is the user-directed interactions and
modifications (usually additions) that make hypertext *really* hot.

A worthwhile goal, as I see it would be to totally blur the line between
author and user of the hypertext...

I'm doing my MS research in this area and would be very interested in
further discussion.

	- faisal
	  fs@cs.scarolina.edu
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: olson@mydual.uucp (Kirtland H. Olson)
Subject: An End-User Application of Hypertext
Reply-To: olson%mydual.uucp@alliant.com
Organization: The Harvard Group, 01451-0667
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:21:07 GMT

Here's a hypertext applied to a non-technical, non-fiction, non-computer
subject area.  It's also available as shareware, so you can examine it's
engine and structure at low cost.  

I think the most important aspect of this application is that it goes
directly to a user.  The user decides directly (that is, without an
organizational approval process) to try this mechanism.  The user may
have *no intrinsic interest* in hypertext, but simply judge the
application on it's utility.  As you can see in the machine
requirements, this will run on almost any PC-compatible, so the 
judgement reduces to "Do I want the benefits of this product?"  

I would like to know about other hypertext products that similarly
address a consumer need.  (Or arguments that position well-known
hypertexts in this sector.)

============

Subject: REC.NUDE Frequently Asked Questions, Part II of II
Date: 2 Sep 92 01:50:50 GMT

       Frequently Asked Questions on rec.nude - Part II of II

[stuff deleted]

  The American Naturist Hypertext Guide - a guide of naturist and nudist
   contacts in the United States.  144 naturist and nudist contacts are listed
   in the Shareware Version which provides names, addresses, phone numbers, type
   of contact,  membership information, affiliations with national associations,
   and newsletters.  The commercial version ($15.00) contains more than 500
   entries and includes groups, Special Interest Groups (SIGs), hotels,
   apartments, etc.  Available as shareware on many BBSs as ANHG92.ZIP or
   ANHG92.SDN (Software Distribution Network, .PAK compressed file).
   Requirements : IBM compatible computer, 58k RAM, any monitor (MONO, CGA, EGA,
   VGA). MS-DOS 2.1 or higher.  Web-Man Publications, P.O. Box 60562U,
   Sacramento, CA 95860-0562
 
[stuff deleted]

Acknowledgement to: (for preparation of FAQ)

======================================================================
Steve Pierce             Palm Bay
steve@rtfm.mlb.fl.us     Florida
      Space Coast Naturists, PO Box 560086, Rockledge, FL 32956-0086


==========

-- 
Kirtland H. Olson                     olson%mydual.uucp@alliant.com
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: olson@mydual.uucp (Kirtland H. Olson)
Subject: Re: Desperately seeking Intermedia
Reply-To: olson%mydual.uucp@alliant.com
Organization: The Harvard Group, 01451-0667
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 09:41:50 GMT

My notes show IRIS Intermedia as a commercial program ($150) developed
at Brown University.  


-- 
Kirtland H. Olson                     olson%mydual.uucp@alliant.com
From: nico@cats.ucsc.edu (Paul S Toney)
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
Subject: Desperately seeking Intermedia
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:17:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu



    I'm looking for a copy of the Macintosh hypertext application Intermedia.

    It was developed at Brown University for use in their Literature
department.  I'm not actually sure if it is public domain or shareware, or      whether it is in fact NOT in distribution.

    Any comments, replies, suggestions, etc will be greatly appreciated by the
recipient at nico@cats.ucsc.edu.
   Thanks!


-- 
nico@cats.ucsc.edu-------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May)
Subject: Re: Desperately seeking Intermedia
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 01:46:36 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

schwabe@inf.puc-rio.br (Daniel Schwabe) writes:
: In article <17gse7INNrh0@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> Paul S Toney,
: nico@cats.ucsc.edu writes:
: >    I'm looking for a copy of the Macintosh hypertext application
: Intermedia.
: >
: Yes, it was developed at Brown (IRIS), and is commercially sold. It runs
: on AU/X.
: Send e-mail to  Paul Kahn (pdk@iris.brown.edu), he will be able to direct
: you to the appropriate persons...


(The following is hearsay. Use it only if it is backed by others.)

I've heard that it Intermedia only worked under AUX version 1 and broke
under version 2 (let alone version 3). From what I heard, Brown is not
supporting it anymore.

Be careful using this hearsay.

-- 
..........................................................................
Timothy C. May         | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
tcmay@netcom.com       | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
408-688-5409           | knowledge, reputations, information markets, 
W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA  | black markets, collapse of governments.
Higher Power: 2^756839 | RSA MailSafe Public Key: by arrangement


Newsgroups: alt.hypertext
From: WESCHAP@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Wes Chapman)
Subject: Re: Interaction with a hypertext
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:42:56 GMT

In article <fs.715400841@spruce.cs.scarolina.edu>
fs@cs.scarolina.edu (Faisal Siddiqi) writes:
 
>
>I agree. Hypertext used like a book is great, but you're not fully
>utilizing the potential of hypertext unless the hypertext "user" can
>actually change the hypertext also. Without this capability, hypertext
>is no better than many computer based training programs that allow
>non-linear instruction. It is the user-directed interactions and
>modifications (usually additions) that make hypertext *really* hot.
>
>A worthwhile goal, as I see it would be to totally blur the line between
>author and user of the hypertext...
 
Michael Joyce (author of the hypertext novel "Afternoon," among other things)
makes the distinction between exploratory and constructive hypertexts, a
distinction similar to the one you're making here.  An exploratory hypertext
is the plain old "read it like a book kind"; a constructive hypertext
requires, in his words, "a capability to act: to create, to change, and to
recover particular encounters within the developing body of knowledge."
It isn't entirely clear to me whether that *necessarily* requires the reader
to actually write on/in the text; some arrangements of texts require an
active reconstruction of meaning just to get through them (because the path
you choose through the material determines the meaning of the particular
nodes of the hypertext.) See "Siren Shapes: Exploratory and Constructive
Hypertexts," Academic Computing, November 1988.  A number of other theorists
have argued that hypertext tends to break down the distinction between
reader and writer, just as you sugggest; see George Landow's _Hypertext_,
for starters.  Among the hypertext writers who espouse this idea is
Stuart Moulthrop, author of the hypertext novel _Victory Garden_; his
"Forking Paths," a hypertext remake (and then some) of Borges' "Garden of
Forking Paths," explicitly asks the reader to add to the text.
Sorry to go all dry and academic on ya, but I thought if yer innerested
ya might check this stuff out.
Wes Chapman
Illinois Wesleyan University
weschap@uiucvmd.bitnet
weschap@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu