HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brownea@cc.uvcc.edu
Subject: Re: The Pass
Organization: Utah Valley Community College
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:39:01 GMT

> Actually, the bit that gets me in the song is this.
> 
> All of us do time in the gutters,
> dreamers turn to look at the cars.
> 
> What have cars got to do with all this?

	They've nothing to do with the rest of the conversation.  In the song,
'the dreamers' are mentioned as doing things differently than 'all of us'. 
It's been my interpretation that 'the dreamers' are not as worried about
suicide because of their status _as_ dreamers.  Hence, when "Dreamers turn to
look at the cars", they're daydreaming about what they want their lives to turn
out like (owning a car), and that's what keeps them from killing themselves.
	Earl
From: ubigpig@mcl.ucsb.edu (Jeremy Dodd)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Working Man Question
Date: 22 Jan 93 00:59:32 GMT

In <QfJP5RG00Uh7A4H28R@andrew.cmu.edu> jscm+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joshua Saypol) writes:
>preference.  While the syrinx lyrics are fantastic and an excellent
>service I'm not sure we can call them official (those who transcribed
>them should take no offense).

The lyrics to "2112" are printed in some versions of the vinyl LP, so any 
questions can be taken up with someone with a copy of THAT./

					-=<(JD>)=-
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chintan Amin)
Subject: Re: Dumb Question about Trees
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 08:11:11 GMT

In article <S92458KM.93Jan27153356@cs4.sfc.keio.ac.jp> s92458km@sfc.keio.ac.jp (Kunio Muto) writes:
>	Hi, this is the kunedog, I've been reading this newsgroup once
>in a while, but it's the first time for me to post here. 
>
>	I've always thought that the trees in "the Trees" symbolized
>England (the Oaks) and Canada(the Maples) and how Canada became in
>equal relationships with England after becoming independent.... just
>my opinion.... I don't want to start any flames... 
>
>
	Sounds cool to me...

-- 
Chintan Amin		Internet:  c-amin1@uiuc.edu  ->EVERYTHING I.M.H.O.<-
The University 		NeXTMail:  cka52397@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu
of Illinois 	  "Do we have to be forgiving at last?  What else can we do?
Urbana   Do we have to say goodbye to the past?  Yes, I guess we do." <N.Peart
From: wipperma9340@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: The meaning of "The Trees"
Summary: silly tree stuff again
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:04:14 GMT
Reply-To: wipperman9340
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1k3qruINN473@pandora.sdsu.edu>, misselt@trapper.sdsu.edu.sdsu.edu (Karl &) writes:
>
>    There is no mention of humans at all in the song.  As your original post    
> stated, it is an allegory for human behavior.  The trees (both maples and 
> oaks), represent human beings.  I think people are reading too much 
> superfluous stuff into the lyrics. (IMO, appropriate smiley...)              
> 
> -Karl M.

The Trees are supposed to represent humans, but they aren't humans in the song. 
That's why it's possible for the humans to keep the trees equal within the
context of the song.  

The actions of the trees appear to be similar to those of human groups, but the
trees aren't human.  A metaphor is supposed to be a comparison; that doesn't
mean that the two things that are being compared have to be the same thing in
physical appearance.  Because of this, humans come on to the seen at the end of
"The Trees" to solve the problem for the antagonistic trees.

Yours etc.,

The Analog Kid
From: ST402658@brownvm.brown.edu ()
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: ALBUM BOUT
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 14:45:02 EST
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
X-News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

Am I the only one in the world who _likes_ Rivendell? I think this track
_defines_ one boundary of the range of Rush music. Understated classical
guitar, synth-like background electric guitar, Geddy actually singing
rather than screaming. The lyrics may not be spectacular, but they do
contain literary references (Tolkien). This type of music is what set Rush
apart from other "hard rock" bands in 1975. IMO, this is one of Rush's more
progressive moments.

Steve Kilpatrick
From: eam3@po.CWRU.Edu (Eric A. Meyer)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Album Bout #3
Date: 28 Jan 1993 16:19:26 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: eam3@po.CWRU.Edu (Eric A. Meyer)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


Grace Under Pressure v. Power Windows...
   I was going to be the first person with the courage to call this one a
tie, but realized that I couldn't.  P/G is the winner, in my opinion.
I could ramble on about why I think so, complete with song-by-song
analyses, but I won't.  I will say that this is the first 'Album Bout'
I've seen that I thought was a good contest.  (HYF v. FBN?  The albums
are so dissimilar that there's no real comparison...)


In a previous article, esuyn@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr J Currid) says, in part:

>BTW, the start of Big Money is, without any doubt, THE best start to any
>record in creation - and even better as a concert opener (HYF 21.4.88 - first
>date in Britain since May (?) 83, what a way to return).

   I agree with this.  Also HYF 17 Dec 1988 - Cleveland, OH.  My first ever!

		-EMeyer

-- 
"Unstable condition--a symptom of life       | Eric A. Meyer (eam3@po.CWRU.edu)
 In mental and environmental change          | Library Information Technologies
 Atmospheric disturbance--the feverish flux  |   Software Support Technician
 Of human interface and interchange-"  -N.P. | "What do you think, sirs?" -Joel
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: moleface@next01cville.wam.umd.edu (Moleface)
Subject: Re: Album Bout #3
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:29:12 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.102745.10211@iscsvax.uni.edu>  
wipperma9340@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
> OK, I'll try to keep Gregg satisfied.  Here's album bout #3:
> 
> Grace Under Pressure v. Power Windows
> 
> My opinion on #2:
>         All the World's a Stage.  Why?  Because it's the only live album  
by
> Rush that actually sounds live!  Plus, the Geddyisms are quite good.
> 
> Yours faithfully,
> 
> 
> The Analog Kid

p/g--the songs kick ass, the lyrics (as always) are poingnant, and there's  
an excellent mix of bass, guitar, and keyboards.  Most of the songs on PW,  
imo, lack a lot of the verve of those on other albums, the exceptions  
being "Territories" and "Mystic Rhythms."  I also think that there are too  
many keyboards and not enough guitar (I say this, and yet I think HYF is a  
great album 8>).
Moleface
From: moleface@next02cville.wam.umd.edu (Moleface)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: RTB: Neurotica
Date: 27 Jan 93 04:34:22 GMT
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <9234@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> kerry@turing.seas.ucla.edu (Kerry J.  
Kopp) writes:
> In article <1993Jan24.203755.26456@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>  
jm012b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Jeffrey P. Moon) writes:
> >In <108125@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:
> >
> >>In article <C1CHHz.9no@unix.portal.com> rivit@shell.portal.com  
(Russell Michael VanTassell) writes:
> >
> [Stuff Deleted so my newserver will post this..grumble..]
> 
> Hello, Rush fans!
> 
> After listening to Neur. at full volume, I must say that I think Geddy  
is slurring his words. It sounds very, very, much like "Stop!", but It has  
enough of a 
> "Snap" quality to make me wanna believe the lyrics. 
> (Quick Safety tip: When listening to RTB at full volume on headphones,  
be sure 
> to pause before the drums in the intro to YBYL...ouch....)
> 
> DOoesn't anyone out there know someone who knows one of the Three Gods  
of Music?It would be _sooo_ helpful!
> In conclusion, I have to o with Geddy saying "Snap!"  I can't believe  
he'd lie..
> 
> (My $0.02 on the FBN - HYF debate: Both are great. So there. IMHO, "Turn  
the Page" is one of the best Rush songs ever.)
> 
> kjk
> 
	It's not a lie; he says "snap" everywhere the lyric sheet says  
"snap" in the refrain.  The "stop" (I'm convinced that that's what he's  
screaming) was merely an added bit.  It makes since, too.  I interpret it  
as this incredibly paranoid, NEUROTIC person shrieking, "STOP!!!!" at the  
imaginary oppressors who are following him around with some kind of  
malicious intent.  I'm not really sure how well that fits into the context  
of the song, since I only listened to the last ten seconds recently to  
hear the "stop/snap" (I'm not a huge fan of that particular album).  Just  
my opinion.
Moleface

>  
+------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
----+
> 			    Time is a gypsy caravan
> 			   Steals away in the night
> 		      To leave you stranded in dreamland
From: esuqs@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr W J Lynn)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Re:2112 Ending...
Date: 21 Jan 1993 12:25:32 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: parsley.csv.warwick.ac.uk
Summary: Is was an unhappy ending

>	In _Visions_ he says that it is INTENTIONALLY left vague.  This blew me
>away when I read it, I'd always gone with the 'Elder Race Returns'
>interpretation, and I was really surprised to learn that I had gotten that as a
>result of my own life-view.

I'm sorry, as far as i'm concerned the ending is still unhappy.

If you read the lyrics it says-

V. Oracle: The Dream
... "I guess it was a dream, but even now it all seems so vivid to me.  Clearly
yet I see the beckoning hand of the oracle as he stood at the summit of the
staircase" ...
... "I see still the incredible beauty of the sculptured cities and the pure
spirit of man revealed in the lives and works of this world.  I was overwhelmed
by both wonder and understanding as I saw a completely different way to life, a
way that had been crushed by the Federation long ago.  I saw now how
meaningless life had become with the loss of all these things ..."

Notce the how the 'elder race' were crushed by the federation long ago.
So how can this 'elder race' come back and rescue these people?
He sees how life was and how it can never be again.

Before the Soliloquy it says-

VI. Soliloquy
... "I have not left this cave for days now, it has become my last refuge in my
total despair.  I have only the music of the waterfall to comfort me now.  I
can no longer live under the control of the Federation, but there is no other
place to go.  My last hope is that with my death I may pass into the world of
my dream, and know peace at last."

This is a world of his _dream_.
Who said they ever existed?

Warren.
--

|warren@dcs.warwick.ac.uk/esuqs@csv.warwick.ac.uk/cstadcl@csv.warwick.ac.uk|
| If you cannot stand      |      /  _  _  _     This is how we know what  |
| up for what you believe, |     //|| \| \| |\ | love is, Jesus christ     |
| Your beliefs are nothing | /| //-||_/|_/|-| \| laid down his life for    |
| and neither are you.     |/ |//  || \| \|_|  | us.    1 John 3:16        |
|warren@dcs.warwick.ac.uk/esuqs@csv.warwick.ac.uk/cstadcl@csv.warwick.ac.uk|
From: cook@shaman.nexagen.com
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Rivendell (was Re: ALBUM BOUT)
Date: 26 Jan 1993 01:07:42 -0700
Organization: NeXagen.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: shaman.nexagen.com

Timothy.J.Young@dartmouth.edu (Timothy J. Young) writes:

>In article <1993Jan24.205546.10137@iscsvax.uni.edu>
>wipperma9340@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:

>> Perhaps I should add the level of Satanic influence as another thing by which
>> to compare albums.  With Rush there's plenty of that to go around.

>Well, has anyone ever thought about that stuff they say at the
>beginning of "Witch Hunt". It sounds like some kind of incantation. For
>that matter, what's that mumbling about nine minutes thru "The Camera
>Eye"?

I don't know about "The Camera Eye," but the stuff they say at the beginning of
"WItch Hunt" is just supposed to represent the rumblings of a mob about to
burn a witch. I also happen to know for a fact that this noise was achieved
when the band took all of the people in the studio at the time out into the
parking lot and had them shout, yell and generally make noise. No incantation
there, but how appropriate that you would think that there would be something
hidden and sinister about "Witch Hunt," when the song is about people looking
for things that are wrong (like Satanic influences) in music, books, etc.

>Tim Young, Dartmouth College, Class of '96
>"Not everyone can carry the weight of the world..." -R.E.M.
>The opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of Dartmouth
>College or any of its students...
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: The meaning of "The Trees"
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:34:30 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <C1I48K.Iqu@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Timothy.J.Young@dartmouth.edu (Timothy J. Young) writes:

>In article <108428@bu.edu>
>jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:

>>  So the maples formed a union
>> >> And demanded equal rights.
>> >> "These oaks are just too greedy;
>> >> We will make them give us light."
>> >> Now there's no more oak oppression,
>> >> For they passed a noble law,
>> >> And the trees are all kept equal
>> >> By hatchet, axe, and saw.

>  I don't know, it sounds really political. Do the lyrics imply that it
>shouldn't have been this way (thus being an anti-collectivist song) or
>that the "oaks" learned their lesson for "ignoring their pleas" and
>wondering "why the maples can't be happy in their shade." 

I would say it _is_ very political, and yes, anticollectivist. I would
say it is true that the "oaks" pay the price for ignoring the complaints
of the maples -- they should have been prepared to defend themselves.
On the other hand, if they are a small enough minority this may have
been impossible, etc. I think the song is designed to point out one
of the shortcomings of democracy given "human behavior".

>  Someone e-mailed me and said this :
>     Oaks = U.S.  and     Maples = Canada
>I suppose the song could be taken to mean that the U.S. grabs all the
>light and treats Canada almost like a "child" or a protectorate.

So the territories are going to demand equal rights and then reduce
the US? Doesn't sound plausible. Furthermore, why connect the US with
the oak tree? Canada=maple I understand but that's all there is to
make remotely plausible this interpretation.


Gregg





-- 
Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy)  Dept. of Physics (and Philosophy), Boston Univ.
"You see, the quantum mechanical description is in terms of knowledge" -Peierls
"One can _not_ put the psi-function... in place of the... thing" -Schroedinger
                   _De gustibus non disputandum_, NOT!
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 18:42:13 EST
From: <MWEINTR@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: ALBUM BOUT #2
 <C1DLtD.AzC@news.iastate.edu>

I am a HUGE fan of ASOH (I even have a boot recorded the night the video
was), but I've never owned ATWAS, so my vote is firm w/ ASOH...

Marathon live, wow...
Prime Mover live, wow...
Mission live, wow...
Distant Early Warning live, wow...

etc...

Slainte mhath,

Mike
---
***********************************************************************
*\  / ___  __ *  Mike "Jvi" Weintraub  mweintr@american.edu  *  /\/\  *
* \/  ___ |_ `*  The American University, Washington, DC     * / /\ \ *
*
* /   ___   \ *  "Tomorrow belongs to me" - Fish             * \/--\/ *
*/          / *  "Courageous convictions will drag the dream *  \/\/  *
*      \___/  *   into existence" -Rush, 'Vital Signs'       *I'm Poli*
**************************************************************Sci and *
*     Brought to you by the letter 'M' and the number '3'    *Proud!! *
***********************************************************************
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: The meaning of "The Trees"
Date: 26 Jan 93 07:58:40 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <1k2g38INNjp2@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> intruder@cats.ucsc.edu (Isaac N. Truder) writes:

> > >       Probably the fact that we have this increadible ability to 
> > >amongst ourselves, rather than against a common enemy.  The trees 
> > >felled by humans, after failing to band together...

> > I don't think so. The _trees_ passed a law that they must be kept
> > equal. If any humans _reduced_ (a la "kept equal", not _felled_)
> > _some_ trees it was presumably due to _their_ law. It's not that
> > the trees were fighting humans or something.
>

>asked you, "Here's a quiz.  What do you do with hatchets, axes, and
>saws?", you would probably answer, "Cut down trees".  I think that's
>clearly the implication here.  "The trees are all kept equal" -- equally
>stumps.

Perhaps, except that there are no human beings mentioned any time during
the entire song. I think Neil simply takes the metaphor a fixed distance
without worrying about _how_ these tools would _realistically_ have to
be used. The point is, as a result of their behavior the best trees are
diminished.


Gregg


-- 
Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy)  Dept. of Physics (and Philosophy), Boston Univ.
"You see, the quantum mechanical description is in terms of knowledge" -Peierls
"One can _not_ put the psi-function... in place of the... thing" -Schroedinger
                   _De gustibus non disputandum_, NOT!
From: esuyn@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr J Currid)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Album Bout #3
Date: 28 Jan 1993 15:30:56 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
NNTP-Posting-Host: oregano.csv.warwick.ac.uk

Grace versus Windows eh? Tricky.
I think I'd have to go for PoW though. p/g is a fine album but I've often
found that Rush are a band that succeeds in writing high class removed
songs for want of a better term. p/g is a very emotional record, as I've
heard all the members say at some time or another. The emotion certainly
comes across in the music, and I remember hearing it described as an 
album that was as angry as 2112, a phrase with which Geddy agreed. I don't
think you could ever see PoW as being an emotional record, other than
being a cool, calm, collected powerhouse of orchestrated music. 
It's the fact that PoW just exudes confidence and power everywhere, without
falling prey to being concerned too much about life. It's a very observational
record. I prefer that in Rush - I always assosciate them with being a class
act as opposed to a 'feelings' act.
I hope this makes sense..
BTW, the start of Big Money is, without any doubt, THE best start to any
record in creation - and even better as a concert opener (HYF 21.4.88 - first
date in Britain since May (?) 83, what a way to return).

John 
Warwick
From: mwilson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Zaphod Beeblebrox)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: The Pass
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:39:56 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

Ever since the release of Presto, The Pass has been a special song to me.  I
don't think too much arguement could be done over the basic theme of the song,
but there is one little tid-bit that I'm not fully decisive about.  The final
line in the Lyrics notes on the CD is:
 
       Christ, what have you done?

Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but it has been my personal opinion 
for some time now that Mr. Peart does not choose his words lightly.  I firmly
beleive that each and every word in his songs are there for a reason.  Now,
the word Christ here can have two meanings.  Christ can be used as a simple
exclamation, or it can be used as a noun.  I've come up with the theory that
Neil might be trying to blame Christ for starting the suicide thing.  
The verse previous to the one in question talks about a noble warrior who lost
the will to fight.  Could this be Jesus Christ who accepted his fate to die and
did not fight for his freedom or life?  I'm not a religious person, nor am I
an Atheist, so this is question is purely musical in orientation.  I have no
preferences as to which way to look at the song, I'm simply curious if anyone
knows or has considered this view as well.

-- 
| Mike Wilson | You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.         |
|   Va Tech   | If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.    |
|  UnderGrad  | You can choose from phantom fears, and kindness that can kill |
|Comp. Science| I will chose a path that's clear, I will chose Free Will.-RUSH|
From: Timothy.J.Young@dartmouth.edu (Timothy J. Young)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: "The Trees" etc. was (Re: Dumb Question about Trees)
Date: 24 Jan 93 22:42:11 GMT
 <1juvndINNfco@pandora.sdsu.edu>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1juvndINNfco@pandora.sdsu.edu>
misselt@trapper.sdsu.edu.sdsu.edu (Karl &) writes:

>    Am I the only one who has never even thought of this particular interpretation
> of 'The Trees'?  To me it has always been a more individualistic song.  I 
> interpret it to be about absurdity of complete equality (of outcome).  I take the 
> oaks to represent those, who exist in any human society, that accomplish more 
> than their fellows.  This may be through native ability, persverance, effort or 
> even just plain luck.  The ending has always been very chilling to me.  I see a 
> faceless mob turning to the coercive force of government to enforce a kind to 
> conformity/mediocrity:  'Since we can't rise to your level, we'll pass a 
> "Noble Law", and cut you down to ours.'  Hence the hatchet, ax and saw.  

So it's anti-collectivist? Anyone know if Peart ever said anything
about it?
Also, what about Force Ten? I've always thought of it as a love song...



Tim Young, Dartmouth College, Class of '96
"Not everyone can carry the weight of the world..." -R.E.M.
The opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of Dartmouth
College or any of its students...
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: irsman@iastate.edu (Ian Schmidt)
Subject: Re: Album Bout #3
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:53:27 GMT

In article <C1J3w0.4xo@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Timothy.J.Young@dartmouth.edu (Timothy J. Young) writes:
>In article <C1Ixs3.H40@news.iastate.edu>
>irsman@iastate.edu (Ian Schmidt) writes:
>
>> >Grace Under Pressure v. Power Windows

I thought I'd point out that this somehow got misattributed...The Analog Kid
wrote the Album Bouts, as always.  I just vote on 'em :)





-- 
        Ian Schmidt: irsman@iastate.edu or aol.com, BITNET: twbv4@isuvax       
 "I will choose a path that's clear: I will choose free will." - Neil Peart
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: cpethick@hp-vcd.vcd.hp.com (Christopher M. Pethick)
Subject: Re: Question on Lifeson's Gear
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:12:09 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard

In article <1993Jan21.064157.7515@midway.uchicago.edu> 
kamartin@quads.uchicago.edu (Kai Anthony Martin) writes:
> Anyway, what is a Taurus pedal?  Is it a special stomp-box or
> effects processor?  What sound does it make?  Is there anywhere one could
> buy such a thing?  Thanks a lot; I've been wondering about these things 
> for a while...

The taurus pedal was made by Moog and was essentially a very limited 
synthesizer that you played with your feet.  It was fairly large and heavy 
and had about a one to one and a half octave range.  (It's been a while 
since I've seen one of these beasts.)  I was blown away the first time I 
saw Geddy play bass, sing, and play the synth line with his feet all at 
the same time.  This was on the Hemispheres tour.  

I think that when MIDI became more prevalent, the taurus pedals were 
dropped in favor of something more versatile.  I'm pretty sure they were 
still using them on the Permanent Waves tour but I can't remember if they 
used them on the Moving Pictures tour.

You may be able to find one of these things used somewhere.  I wouldn't 
recommend it though.  Modern sythns sound so much better and with MIDI you 
can trigger them in a lot of different ways.

I hope this answers your question.
Chris