HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Office: 324 Thorndike
Phone: (212) 854-8027
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibmtcp-l
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 12:19:00 EDT
From:         "Kenneth H. Lee" <khl@CUNIXF.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Second TCPIP id

> I am attempting to test a new release of TCP/IP (VM/ESA) and I
> have loaded it all down to a second group of ids; TCPIP2, SMTP2, etc.
>
> How do I tell the TELNET command to talk to this set of ids instead of
> the original ones? We do not have the source code, so I can't rebuild
> TELNET, FTP, etc.

	First important thing: 	You need to modify your PROFILE TCPIP to
reflect the new service machine names.

	Second thing: You need to modify TCPIPUSERID in TCPIP DATA to reflect
the new name for the TCPIP service machine, which in your case would be TCPIP2.

	The second item i mention is actually more important than the first.
Most of the execs supplied with the product will reference TCPIP DATA.  For
example NETSTAT uses that to determine the default tcpip service machine to
talk to.  In this way, you can issue NETSTAT instead of NETSTAT TCP TCPIP2.

hope this helps..

/k

Kenneth H. Lee                          khl@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu
Columbia University                     rutgers!columbia!cunixf!khl
Box 700 Central Mail Room               khlcu@cuvmc.bitnet
535 West 120 Street, 324 Thorndike
New York, NY 10027-6629                 (212) 854-8027
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Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 07:08:52 CDT
From:         Gary Jarrell <C604441@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: DEMOCRACY FOR ECONOMICS

Debra, if you dislike programming, then GET OUT OF IT IMMEDIATELY!!!!!

As for a suggetion of another line of related work, I sugget you
systems management or systems admin., even network admin/management
there is also dbase admin....  There are several areas where we
are needed, all the above require some programming, but not extensive
amounts of it.  I have done Sys/Net Admin/Mgmt, and if I get a job at
it again I will go immediately.

You could also look at the consultant side, sales, etc....

I hope this helps, as a non-programmer I feel for you.  Gary J.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mba-l
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 11:44:32 CDT
From:         Barbara LaFon <ISTS017@UABDPO.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: DEMOCRACY FOR ECONOMICS
              9 Oct 1992 08:39:00 -0600 from <dirish@MATH.UTAH.EDU>

Dudley,

  I am a little more than halfway through the MBA program here at the
University of Alabama in Birmingham (UAB).  I feel that the math content
in this program is neither too much nor too little.  I'm not sure what
you mean by that statement.  In this program, the only math taught is
that which is necessary to be effective managers, e.g. statistics and
management science, and of course, accounting.  We have a calculus
prerequisite for the program and I have had Calculus I, II, and III (this was
required for my computer science degree), but I do not see how calculus
is needed for the program.  I think the UAB program is pretty good, although
there is some duplication of topics among the courses.

Barbara La Fon
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mba-l
Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 23:19:54 CDT
From:         Gary Jarrell <C604441@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: DEMOCRACY FOR ECONOMICS

Debra:

     Presently, I am a student at U of Mo.  I do have about seven years
experience in the Systems/Network Administration field.  I have managed
LAN/WAN/MANs for the AF.  I did installtion for a private company for 6
months.  I am going back to the "private sector" in May, when I finish
MY B.S., I am currently finishing five electives.  I plan on doing the
same thing as before, Systems Admin or Mangament.  I WILL not take a
programming job.  I take it that you have no experience in Sys Admin.
If not, then try and find an entry level position somewhere (you may
have to travel around the country).  Once you get a yr or two exper.
then you can move on and up.  If you have exper., call a couple of
local head-hunters (recruiting firms) in the area, and see if they have
any positions.  On you resume DO NOT INFLATE THE EXPERIENCE ON SYSTEM
EXPERIENCE.  If you put down extensive experience in MVS, then they will
expect you to perform as such.  So just put down what you can do.

There are jobs out there if you are willing to travel and work at it.

Hope this helps, Gary.
X-Prolog:     Office of Development and Alumni Affairs, LIB 654
X-Prolog:     University of South Florida, Tampa, Florida 33620
X-Acknowledge-To: <DECABAA@CFRVM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mba-l
Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 21:10:33 GMT
Comments:     Converted from OfficeVision to RFC822 by PUMP V2.2X
From:         "Debra A. Berkeley (813) 974-2651" <DECABAA@CFRVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: DEMOCRACY FOR ECONOMICS

Gary:

Thank you very much for all the suggestions. They are well taken, believe me.
If I may ask, what type of work are you doing in the field right now? You did
mention that you are a non-programmer. To tell you the truth, I feel for me
too. Nevertheless, I always look at everything that I do as a learning
experience. I see my current programming position as a stepping stone to a
more exciting career path (even though I would rather be doing something other
than programming, at the moment).
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mba-l
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:46:20 CDT
From:         Barbara LaFon <ISTS017@UABDPO.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: DEMOCRACY FOR ECONOMICS

Gary,

  UAB's MBA program is very structured and there is a set of required core
courses to take plus one or two electives.  There is only one MIS course
offered in this program, which I was able to have waived but have heard
good things from other students about.

   One of the disadvantages of this program is that it does not allow a
student to get their MBA with a concentration in a particular area, such
as MIS.  The intention of the program is to give students a degree with a
a some knowledge about certain key areas: accounting, financial management,
management, statistics, economics, MIS, etc.
Hope this helps.
Barbara La Fon
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mba-l
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:56:36 CDT
From:         Gary Jarrell <C604441@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: DEMOCRACY FOR ECONOMICS

Barbara,

     I to have a CS background, except I would like to get an MBA/MIS.  I
would like to head a Med/Large Network Shop (WAN/LAN/MAN).  But I would also
like the possibility of moving up to CEO later in life (MBA).  So I must
take all the acct and stuff (Yeck), must it is a must do for me, since I
do not want to write code for a living.

Thanks for your timely reply, Gary--
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mba-l
From: kaz@janus.chimkent.su ()
Subject: Kazakhstan's institute looking for partners
Reply-To: kaz@janus.chimkent.su
Organization: Janus Ltd,XSU
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 09:53:26 +0700

Hello !

 Seeking for cooperation.
We represent the faculty of economy of the Kazakh institute of
chemical technology.
Interested in economy, business and management.
                                   R.K. Nijazbekova
                                dean of the faculty
From: DECABAA@CFRVM.BITNET (Debra A. Berkeley (813) 974-2651)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mba-l
Subject: Re: DEMOCRACY FOR ECONOMICS
Date: 9 Oct 92 22:06:12 GMT
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X-Prolog:     Office of Development and Alumni Affairs, LIB 654
X-Prolog:     University of South Florida, Tampa, Florida 33620
X-Acknowledge-To: <DECABAA@CFRVM>
Comments:     Converted from OfficeVision to RFC822 by PUMP V2.2X

Gary: I was just reading your reply to Barbara concerning getting an MBA/MIS
degree. Itseems as though both of us are in the same boat. I have an
undergraduate degree in MIS. I received it from the Univ. of South Florida in
April of last year. I currently work for the university as a fulltime SAS
programmer. To be honest, I really dislike programming. I would rather be
doing other tasks. I am interested in going into the analysis side of MIS and
advancing to a manager of a mid-size MIS shop later on. I feel that I would do
better in analysis because I feel that I am more of a people person. I would
like to interact more w/ the users. If I    find a position where I can do
both programming and analysis or just analysis, I would be pleased. Do you
know of any other types of career paths that are available to me and others
like yourself, who do not want to program for the rest of our natural lives?
Any suggestions at all from everyone on this list is welcome.

Thank you much.
From: STERNAL@DRACO.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mba-l
Subject: Re: Ph.D program in Finance
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:00:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: MBA-L@MARIST.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"MBA-L@MARIST.BITNET"

Gary Jarrell--
   I'm not exactly sure.  I don't know of anyone who has received a PhD in
the MIS area.  I do know that if you are earning your MBA here and want to
concentrate in MIS you are best off by taking the MIS classes at the New
Jersey Institute of Tech...especially if you have a computer background.

    The MBA MIS option is not exactly what I would call intensive...but then
again, I have a BS in Computer Science.  For someone with a less quantitative
background it may be perfect.

Paul
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mba-l
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 13:18:19 CDT
From:         Gary Jarrell <C604441@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: DEMOCRACY FOR ECONOMICS
              9 Oct 1992 08:39:00 -0600 from <dirish@MATH.UTAH.EDU>

I agree with you, the Math required, should be what is needed to do the job in
the real world, not in the "closed world" of a campus.  I am getting my
degree (BS) from University of Maryland, Overseas branch, in Computer Science.
They requrie up to Calculus for CS, but only Algebra for MIS.  I feel this
is a good idea, since MIS are not actually doing programming.  The Masters
program at Boston U (Overseas Branch) only requires Algebra for MIS.  The
University of MO requries Calculus for MIS Masters Program, which I feel is
too much math.  Most of the MIS Managers I know never program when they grad.
instead they manage programmers and hire a head programmer to supervise these
guys.  Gary J.
From: STEWARTJ@DUVM.BITNET (JEFF STEWART)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mba-l
Subject: Re: Ph.D program in Finance
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:51:08 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Jian,
Perhaps the New Institute of Finance might have info on B-schools.
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Organization: Concordia University Information Systems, River Forest, Il.
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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:18:22 -0500
From:         CRF_KARBENRL@CRF.CUIS.EDU
Subject:      Employer outlook on Student Curriculum

        From the viewpoint of an employer, what
     is the difference between a CIS or a CS major?
From: C604441@MIZZOU1.BITNET (Gary Jarrell)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mba-l
Subject: Re: Ph.D program in Finance
Date: 16 Oct 92 00:52:43 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Comments:     Resent-From: Gary Jarrell <C604441@MIZZOU1>
Comments:     Originally-From: STERNAL@DRACO.BITNET
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was MBA-L@MARIST

Sternal@draco writes

Gary Jarrell--
(stuff deleted)
    The MBA MIS option is not exactly what I would call intensive...but then
again, I have a BS in Computer Science.  For someone with a less quantitative
background it may be perfect.

Paul, I agree with you on the quantitative background, I will have a BSCS.
I just do not wish to write code for a living.  I would prefer to continue
with my choosen field, Systems Management.  But most large companies want
a person to have a Masters.  And I want something that is sellable.  Since
I want to go to management, and not follow a tech path, I felt a MBA would
be more apporiate.  Thanks for the reply and info, Gary jarrell.
From: kchiles@teton.llnl.gov (Keith Chiles)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mba-l
Subject: MIS/MBA
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:14:11 GMT
Reply-To: kchiles@teton.llnl.gov (Keith Chiles)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

Dear Netland,
  I have watched this thread and find it interesting.
I have an undergraduate MIS degree and an MBA from
a school that does not have an MIS concentration.  I 
am now managing a nice UNIX network and find that
it is really nice to be able to draw on the MBA skills in 
a Computer Scientist environmtne.  It avoids being a 
tree in the forrest.  While working on the MBA, I just
used every available assignment to point the subject 
to an MIS environment.  This allowed me to do my 
Finance papers in financial analysis of computing 
environments  ETC.  My research thesis was in the 
managing of departmental computing environments.
I suggest anyone working on the MBA to just do the 
same if the MIS concentration is not available.

Cheers, Keith
kchiles@arac.llnl.gov
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mba-l
Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:57:40 PDT
From:         RBPDLO@UCCVMA.UCOP.EDU
Subject:      NO SUBJECT

From:    David Olson        RBPDLO@UCCVMA  510/987-0210 FAX:9323
Subject:
help
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mba-l
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 06:54:39 CDT
From:         Gary Jarrell <C604441@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      Info on NY schools

Hi,  I have a friend who lives in New York, and she is hinting for me
to come up that way.  I need info from all of you New Yorkers, about
Utica, NY; how is the area, is there a University nearby with a MBA
program that has a good MIS program?  How large is Utica?  etc....

Thanks in advance, Gary Jarrell

P.S.  Just a thought, a long commute to me is 50 miles one way
so I am not adverse to driving.
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Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1992 13:58:00 EDT
From:         STERNAL@DRACO.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Ph.D program in Finance

Jian--
   Take a look at the Rutgers University Graduate School of Management.  They
offer a Ph.D in Finance that allows you to earn an MBA along the way.

Paul
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mba-l
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 15:38:39 CDT
From:         Gary Jarrell <C604441@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: DEMOCRACY FOR ECONOMICS

This all nce and good, but I don't think this is the place for it.  I really
don't care about your political views.  I feel this forum is for discussion of
various programs, not how you manager a country; vhich by the way I feel is
more on a solcialist view than a democratic view.  Also, if you do not like the
way the country is running, then you can do two things:  1) leave, or
2) contribue to the running of the country by casting your vote and bringing
about change that way.

These view are my own.

Gary Jarrell
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mba-l
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:07:09 CDT
From:         Gary Jarrell <C604441@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: DEMOCRACY FOR ECONOMICS

Barbara, Do you think U of A has a good MBA/MIS program?  I am in search
of a good MIS program, from a fairly reputable school.
From: C604441@MIZZOU1.BITNET (Gary Jarrell)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mba-l
Subject: Re: Ph.D program in Finance
Date: 15 Oct 92 00:30:47 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Do they happen to do that for the MIS?
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X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R1).
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mba-l
Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1992 08:18:16 CST
From:         "Stephen P. Cohen, m.s., m.b.a." <STEVEC@MCES.MSSTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Ph.D program in Finance

> From:       Gary Jarrell <C604441%MIZZOU1.BitNet@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>
> I just do not wish to write code for a living.  I would prefer to continue
> with my choosen field, Systems Management.  But most large companies want
> a person to have a Masters.  And I want something that is sellable.  Since
> I want to go to management, and not follow a tech path, I felt a MBA would
> be more apporiate.  Thanks for the reply and info, Gary jarrell.

I can't imagine ANY company hiring a person for a systems management
position having no programming background.  Speaking for myself, as
one who influences the hiring decision for systems management
positions, the first thing I look for in a potential systems manager
is the ability to isolate and identify probabilities of system
failure causes.  I believe that one cannot learn how a machine
behaves unless one has programmed and lived on that machine for some
considerable time.  This is a game of experience, not learned
behavior.

Systems management is a technical endeavor, not a management
position.  One cannot hire a management major and expect the person
to fulfill the role of a systems manager.  Computers do not respond
to theory x management.  They require pure theory y posessing a
pure technical language and skills with which one must communicate
with them.

Once your technical side is proven, demonstrated, and beyond
reproach, only then would I consider the MBA to be of benefit.
Systems managers are not quite a 'dime a dozen,' but they are
available.  The most successful ones are those that can take their
job well beyond the confines of the machine room ... they are the
ones who understand that firms do not exist for the sake of its
computers.  These valuable system managers are the ones that
understand how their work provides a sustained competitive advantage
(ala Michael Porter) for their firm, even if only to reduce the cost
of producing the payroll.

Sorry for burning your knuckles like this ... the very idea that one
can go into systems management without significant programming skills
just sets me on fire.  MIS jobs are few and far in-between these days
For example, a systems manager job in Santa Rosa, CA recently
received over 200 applications ... the job announcement appeared for
one issue in ComputerWorld.  Many of these applicants had 20 years of
experience.

Do not count on making significant progress toward systems management
if you do not have a technical background and experience to do your
talking.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen P. Cohen, m.s., m.b.a.            |SteveC@MCES.MsState.Edu
Manager, Systems & Networks               |Post Office Box 5446
Agricultural Administrative Computing     |Mississippi State, MS 39762
Mississippi State University              |601-325-3227
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Subject: (no subject given)
Organization: State University of New York - College at Fredonia
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mba-l
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:26:22 -0400
From:         "Richard T. Zink" <ZINK6001@FREDONIA.BITNET>

i am planning to enter a mba program next fall.  after which i plan to work
for five years or more then eventually go back to school and receive my
doctrate.  my main goal is to teach at the college level in accounting. my
question is the following : would it make more sense for me to get a
m.s. in accounting or get a m.b.a. in accounting or a m.b.a in another
related field like finance, in order to expand my knowledge.  any opinions
would be greatly appreciated and taken into consideration.  thank you
for your time.  here is my address if you want to send your opinion to
me only.
       on bitnet : zink6001@fredonia.bitnet

       on internet : zink6001@fredonia.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu

  richard zink
  class of '92 (dec.)
  State University of New York at Fredonia
From: dgoldstn@UMAXC.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU (David Goldstein)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mba-l
Subject: Re: MBA programs at Selected Universities.
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:05:25 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Regarding KU, I earned an undergrad in business administration from there
and one year away from a MBA in marketing at the Univ.of Iowa. As it turns
out, it was fortunate that I was rejected from KU's graduate program because
the program here at Iowa is ranked 30 in the nation (20 ahead of KU) and is
making great strides to break the top 20. Just one of its efforts to do this
include the soon-to-be-completed $36M business school. Last year was also
the first year for its "New MBA program" which consists of a revamped
curriculum to better reflect the desires of the business community. Not
coming from an MIS concentration, I'm afraid I can't comment on either KU's
or Iowa's program. However, if you are looking for a quality program that
is making strides to be a national competitor, check out UofIowa in Iowa
City.
From: kchiles@teton.llnl.gov (Keith Chiles)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mba-l
Subject: Re: Ph.D program in Finance
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:19:34 GMT
Reply-To: kchiles@teton.llnl.gov (Keith Chiles)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

Steve Cohen writes:
|> I can't imagine ANY company hiring a person for a systems management
|> position having no programming background.  Speaking for myself, as
|> one who influences the hiring decision for systems management
|> positions, the first thing I look for in a potential systems manager
|> is the ability to isolate and identify probabilities of system
|> failure causes.  I believe that one cannot learn how a machine
|> behaves unless one has programmed and lived on that machine for some
|> considerable time.  This is a game of experience, not learned
|> behavior.
|> 

Steve,
I feel insulted ;-)

I spent three years managing a vax cluster and was then drafted
to manage a hetrogenious unix network after the it was really
screwed up by a programmer.  Other than a few scripts, I find 
very little need to program.  I can program in basic (sniker sniker)
and write scripts, but have no formal training.
When I wrote my Master's Thesis on the critical success factors
in managing departmental computer systems, I correlated 109
facilities and found programming time negatively correlated to 
system reliability.  I did not expect to find it, but after writing 
175 pages of academic technobabble, I found that people with 
a training in computer science suffered twice the downtime
of those who have a business background.  The item most 
correlated to network (system) reliability was time spent 
planning, a business skill.
Before you hit the keyboard with bleading edge verses entropy,
let me point out that the most reliable network of systems was
a very hetrogenous engineering network managed by a retired 
nurse.
Steve, I have read many of your very valuable opinions and feel
that you would fall into the catagory of being successful because
of your proactive management and programming style, not just
because you are a very good programmer.  I know I lack the 
technical skills and wish they were better, but often it is better
to possess good organizational skills to manage these resources.
I think you are a really good System MANAGER because of the 
same orientation that led you to your MBS, not just the ones 
that got you that masters in comp sci.  Many of the programmers
who managae networks are SYSTEM Managers.

I respect your opinions because they are always sound, but 
I respectfully differ here.  I have posted this back to the net
in the hope that we can stimulate some additional feedback 
from othes who have practical experience in this area.

Cheers, Keith
kchiles@arac.llnl.gov
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