HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cacst9+@pitt.edu (Cecelia A Clancy)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Double Revisionsim
Date: 14 Sep 92 00:23:43 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: cacst9@pmax1.cis.pitt.edu


Within the next week I will post my long-promised "further
documentation" on the exhaust of Diesel engines.   It will
be addressed primarily to my fellow Revisionists because
I see us getting too carried away on the technical aspects of
the Legend and on other aspects as well.    We are in need
of becoming "doubly Revisionist", that is, we must be as
willing to constructively criticize and "revise" what we
get from a Revisionist source (such as b-cpu) as we are to
constructively criticize and "revise" what we get from a
standard source (such as the IMT documentation).   "Revise"
plus "revise" equals "doubly revise".   Those who doubly
revise are doubly Revisionist.    This is what I try to
be and this is what I hope that you, my fellow Revisionists
who read but do not post, will try to do too.

My forthcoming Diesel exhaust post, as well as a few other
posts I have in mind, will be doubly Revisionist and I am
now warning my fellow Revisionists ahead of time that their
first reaction will be to push it away because it puts Fritz
Berg's work into a different perspective - a perspective you
might not be comfortable with because it is new.   Be comforted
that I would probably get along very well with Fritz Berg if ever
I get a chance to meet him, for I too like mechanical engineering
and I too am interested in exploring the technical aspects of
the Legend.    (It is probably the work of Fritz Berg, done a
long time ago - at least several years ago - that is the source
of some of b-cpu's statements about Diesel engines, although if so,
they are probably just using parts of Berg's work, not all of it.)

Revisionists who read alt.revisionism but who do not post are most
especially invited to e-mail me or snail mail me at
<muller+@pitt.edu> or <cacst9+@pitt.edu> or P.O. Box 71222
                                            Pittsburgh, PA 15213
or to call me at (412) 682-2798    

Ignore the "Clancy" in the header.   I am "Mu:ller".

Instead of saying "Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus.", we should
be saying "Quaecumque sunt vera" (Whatever is true).

Cecelia Mu:ller  <muller+@pittledu> 
Xref: sparky alt.revisionism:683 soc.history:8231
From: miklg@acuson.com (Michael Goldman )
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Bach, Beethoven & Bedlam - Nazi Schizophrenia
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:08:27 GMT
Organization: Acuson; Mountain View, California

kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay) writes:

>"Perhaps it is for the psychiatrist rather than the historian to fathom the
>schizophrenic behavior of Nazi leaders and their menials, who could
>dispassionately participate in the systematic murder of men, women, and
>children, discharge their grisly tasks mechanically, and then return home
>to a devoted family, to spend the evening listening to the recordings of
>Bach or Beethoven without a further thought to the lives that they had just
>destroyed. The mystery of such behavior, endlessly repeated, has

[ deletions]

>generation. Compassion for Jews was a fatal weakness. The grace of a
>twenty-year-old girl, outwardly lovely, intelligent, was really a snare to
>lull and divert. The infant, curled up in a mother's arms, was a cunning
>disguise. When a child's head was smashed against the wall of a gas
>chamber, it was like stepping on a cockroach. On this premise, Bauer noted,
[much deleted]

	I have to note that there were Jews willing to aid in these
	monstrosities.  A film I saw on the Lodz Ghetto had photos
	of the _Jewish_ police who went into the hospitals and took
	the sick, and the newborn infants and threw them out the
	window into waiting trucks below.  In return, they were
	given an extra ration of bread and their children were spared.
	(All children under 10 were sent away.)  As another ghetto
	resident noted, these police "were not to be envied."

	One of the things I've tried to gain out of reading about
	the Holocaust was that the horrors that were done is something
	anyone can do, unless something inside them can say "if evil
	will be done, let it not be done through me."  One of the
	valuble lessons to be learned is that we have to be very
	sure that we maintain total integrity because once one
	starts to compromise with evil, there is no end to it.
	It also helps not at all.  All the Jews in the Lodz ghetto
	were sent to the camps eventually, except for a few that
	hid in cellars when the Germans left before the advancing
	Russians.  The hope of some that if they could just last
	a little longer, the allies would win and save them, was
	futile, and in the end they gained nothing and lost their
	souls.

	- Michael Goldman

-- 
"History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have
exhausted all other alternatives." - Abba Eban
	Disclaimer:  All views are solely my own & not the views of Acuson.
	<sun!sono!miklg>  or  [miklg@acuson.com]
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history
Subject: War Criminal: Dr. Karl Gebhardt
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 12:01:12 GMT
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island, CANADA
Keywords: Auschwitz,Gebhardt

"Dr. Karl Gebhardt, Himmler's childhood friend, had a green light from him
for his vivisection of women at both Ravensbruck and Auschwitz. In the
former camp, he admittedly operated on 60, but survivors of Ravensbruck put
the number closer to 100, mostly Poles between the ages of fourteen and
twenty-five. He was an SS Brigadefuehrer (Major General) and stated in May
1943: `I carry the full human, surgical and political responsibility for
these experiments.' He was shot as a war criminal in 1948."


Extracted from------------------------------------------------------------
"WOMEN IN THE RESISTANCE AND IN THE HOLOCAUST: THE VOICES OF EYEWITNESSES"
Edited (and with introduction) by Vera Laska. Greenwood Press, Westport &
London, 1983. LOC 82-12018, ISBN 0-313-23457-4                      p. 225
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

         === The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island, Canada ===
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Old Frog's Almanac - Public Access UseNet for Central Vancouver Island
     (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) Waffle XENIX 1.64
Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay)
Xref: sparky alt.revisionism:676 soc.history:8140
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: LEST WE FORGET: A Holocaust Bibliography
Keywords: bibliography
Date: 9 Sep 92 20:16:44 GMT
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island, CANADA

In article <BuBC92.Fs2@cmptrc.lonestar.org> jspence@cmptrc.lonestar.org (John Spence) writes:

>Ken, I sent you email on several occasions requesting that you send me this
>bibliography, but as of yet no responce. I don't know if your getting my
>messages or not. This is beside the point. I still would like to have the
>bib. for my graduate course. Thanks

I respond to every request received here - usually within minutes. However,
some addresses simply aren't deliverable, and result in SMTP errors upstream
- after a few tries, I give it up as a lost cause, and wait to hear from the
requester again....

I have responded to your note with part one of the biblio - I am _also_
going to post both parts here, as you are one of 6-7 folks who I have been
unable to reach via email. 

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Old Frog's Almanac - Public Access UseNet for Central Vancouver Island
     (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) Waffle XENIX 1.64
Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay)
From: jspence@cmptrc.lonestar.org (John Spence)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: LEST WE FORGET: A Holocaust Bibliography
Keywords: bibliography
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 13:31:50 GMT
Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX

In article <1992Sep08.070004.8115@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay) writes:
>I have assembled a Holocaust bibliographic reference file, which is available
>to anyone and everyone requesting it. It contains over 1000 entries, and will 
>prove an invaluable tool for anyone interested in learning more about the 
>horrible events now referred to as the Holocaust.

Ken, I sent you email on several occasions requesting that you send me this
bibliography, but as of yet no responce. I don't know if your getting my
messages or not. This is beside the point. I still would like to have the
bib. for my graduate course. Thanks
 
 John
-- 
jspence@cmptrc.lonestar.org                                (214) 235-7161 x4100
John E. Spence                                                  CompuTrac, Inc.
"I don't speak for CompuTrac, and CompuTrac doesn't speak for me!"
From: aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh Friedman)
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
Subject: Re: Why are you arguing/discussing?
Date: 8 Sep 1992 22:07:08 GMT
Organization: Marsnet
NNTP-Posting-Host: cash.ucsc.edu

In article <1992Sep8.134435.1311@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu> cfhammer@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes:
>In article <Bu9MHy.K5J@fc.sde.hp.com>, fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com 
>(Gary Fritz (tmp)) reviews aryeh's (aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu) previous postings:
>
>> Aryeh, do us all a favor and quit ranting in public.  If you have to rant,
>> be polite enough to do it in private.  If you want to present your views
>> in public, please show the courtesy and maturity of reasoned thought and
>> coherent discussion, not ad hominem attacks and name-calling.

	Thanks for the vote of confidence ;-) No I will not stop posting in
public.  If you see me as name calling I suggest you look at some of the real
flame war groups and you will see I am being very reasonable.  I try my best
to make sense if I don't is a little of my fault and some of the readers.  So
in short if you don't like me add me to your kill file for what good it will do.

>i second gary's review. for the sake of net.maturity (see my post a
>week or so ago) . . . this is getting past the point of informational.

	Not really I think I am willing to express an opposite point of view
if you really want to convience me present some *REAL* evidence to disprove
me.  And for that reason my stuff is informational and I get nothing but
flames coming back (someway to hold an arguement if you ask me ;-).

>aryeh, perhaps you would tell us why you feel the way you do? did you
>get bothered by folks trying to sign you up? or did you try the MLM
>approach and not succeed? giving us your experiences might be more

	None of these reasons.  I know several people are and have been in
MLM befor.  In every last case they where sold a bill of goods and no more.
It is obviously a set up that makes a few very rich and most loss out in the
long run.  For this reason and this reason alone I call it a fraud because
francises (yes I am being generous here) are supposed to support their
fransciees not leave them blowing in the wind.  Also you may not be on the
payroll of what ever MLM your in but you are treated like a employee in that
you are told what to do and what not to.

>aryeh, please remember that every individual's ethics (regardless of
>business) is different. to assume otherwise is the basis of prejudice.

I respect that if they were legal in letter AND spirit of the law.
From: Eli.Mantel@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Eli Mantel)
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
Subject: Re: Why are you arguing/discussing?
Summary: intellectual honesty takes a vacation
Date: 11 Sep 92 03:10:37 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

cfhammer@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes:
>aryeh, perhaps you would tell us why you feel the way you do? did you
>get bothered by folks trying to sign you up? or did you try the MLM
>approach and not succeed? giving us your experiences might be more
>constructive . . . 

This is an example of pure sophistry.

If Aryeh has had a particular experience with MLM which is bad, that
shows that he cannot be subjective about MLM, so his opinions about
it should be discounted.

On the other hand, if he has not had any experience with an MLM, then he
is not qualified to speak on the subject.

Thus, the only ones qualified to speak on the subject, and whose potentially
negative comments should not be discounted, are those who have been successful
with MLM!

Now can we *please* find someone to be an advocate of MLM and also be
intellectually honest in discussing it?

				Eli Mantel (eli.mantel@bbs.oit.unc.edu)
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh Friedman)
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
Subject: Re: Food for Thought
Date: 5 Sep 1992 01:29:40 GMT
Organization: Marsnet
NNTP-Posting-Host: cash.ucsc.edu

I never said my outlook was the best but I am looking at long term survial
history has shown that the largest and oldest companies always have considered
social responiblity to be a high prioroity and releaze that it is not only
good for the soul but very good for the long tern ROI.
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
From: rbeck@mordor.dseg.ti.com (Ron Beck)
Subject: Re: Definition
Reply-To: rbeck@mordor.dseg.ti.com
Organization: When I get time...
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 21:43:21 GMT

In article <1992Sep09.150331.1403@bnr.ca>, Marker_Man writes:
|>      Hear, hear, Mr. Beck!  It's quite clear that Aryeh does not know
|> whereof he speaks (a prevalent condition that you and I have to contend
|> with on a regular basis).

I know better than to get into that type of discussion with someone.  I'll
just wait & build & then start posting from my laptop while enjoying a
Maui sunset!  I *WILL* be retired by my next class reunion!

Plans change...decisions don't!
Ron

P.S. Thanks for your support...now, time to don my Marker Man disguise and
get one more deep!
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ronald J. Beck           | IP rbeck@mordor.dseg.ti.com |Do now what others
Member, Group Tech Staff | MaBell (214) 952-4566       |won't so you can do
Texas Instruments        |                             |later what others
McKinney, Texas          |                             |can't
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
From: Marker_Man
Subject: Re: Why are you arguing/discussing?
Reply-To: Marker_Man
Organization: The "A" Co.
Distribution: alt.business.multi-level
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 13:16:12 GMT

In article <18p3kkINN3hb@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh
Friedman) writes:
|>In article <1992Sep11.031037.11597@samba.oit.unc.edu>
Eli.Mantel@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Eli Mantel) writes:
|>>If Aryeh has had a particular experience with MLM which is bad, that
|>>shows that he cannot be subjective about MLM, so his opinions about
|>>it should be discounted.
|>>
|>>On the other hand, if he has not had any experience with an MLM, then he
|>>is not qualified to speak on the subject.
|>>
|>>Thus, the only ones qualified to speak on the subject, and whose potentially
|>>negative comments should not be discounted, are those who have been
successful
|>>with MLM!
|>
|>	None of the above is true for the simple fact that you do have some
|>qualifactions if you have done your homework which I have done.  Also have
|>you head any real experince in foriegn affairs but your still qualified to
|>dissicuse it right.  Why shouldn't this hold true for MLM.  First I admit I
|>have no first hand experience with MLM, but I have done my homework.  Also
|>if you only allow the successes in MLM to speak you will get a very lopsided
|>point of view and then what is the purpose.   I also stand by everything I 
|>have said.
|>
|>>Now can we *please* find someone to be an advocate of MLM and also be
|>>intellectually honest in discussing it?
|>
|>	Judging from what you have produced so far it is not likely.
                         



        So - just what "homework" have you done?  I think that if you
    had TRULY done your homework, you'd be involved in MLM right now!
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level,misc.entrepreneurs
From: Marker_Man
Subject: Re: Definition
Reply-To: zappa@crchh639.BNR.CA (David DeFalco)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1992 15:03:31 GMT

     Hear, hear, Mr. Beck!  It's quite clear that Aryeh does not know
whereof he speaks (a prevalent condition that you and I have to contend
with on a regular basis).
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
From: fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz (tmp))
Subject: Re: Why are you arguing/discussing?
Reply-To: Gary Fritz <fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com>
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1scd1 PL4
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 15:17:56 GMT

aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh Friedman) writes:
: 	Maybe because MLM is a religon?!?!?
: 	Because MLM are about as loyal as religour zelots.
: I try but some of the outragour claims are to much to let go by.

Aryeh, I wish you could step back and see how "outrageous" your claims
and accusations are.  YOU are the one that refuses to listen to considered
arguments or contradictions to your dogmatic position.  YOU are the one
refusing to hear any point of view but your "religious zealot's" belief.
As a demonstration:

: >Why is it (for instance) that some people refuse to (or cannot) believe that
: >MLM-ers are entrepreneurs and refuse to (or cannot) listen to arguments for
: >the proposition?  
: 
: Refusing to believe has nothing to do with because they aren't.  

Now THERE's a rational, well-thought-out rebuttal.  "I don't have to listen
'cuz you're WRONG, so nyeah nyeah nyeah!"

Aryeh, do us all a favor and quit ranting in public.  If you have to rant,
be polite enough to do it in private.  If you want to present your views
in public, please show the courtesy and maturity of reasoned thought and
coherent discussion, not ad hominem attacks and name-calling.

Gary
Newsgroups: misc.consumer,alt.business.multi-level,misc.invest
From: frank@franko.b11.ingr.com (Franklin Owens)
Subject: Information on Mainstreet Alliance?
Organization: Intergraph Corporation
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:57:17 GMT


I recently received some info on Mainstreet Alliance.  Is this a legitimate
organization. Do you have any positive or negative info concerning this
company?  Any info you having concerning Mainstreet would be greatly 
appreciated?



Thanks in advance.



Franklin Owens
Intergraph Corporation
frank@franko.b11.ingr.com
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
From: steve@unipalm.co.uk (Steve Ladlow)
Subject: Re: MLM books
Organization: Unipalm Ltd., 216 Cambridge Science Park, Cambridge CB4 4WA, UK
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 17:17:20 GMT

I should have made myself a little clearer in my original posting.

I am seriously considering working with an existing and well established MLM
company in 1993 and NOT starting my own MLM company.

Steve Ladlow
steve@unipalm.co.uk
 
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
From: aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh Friedman)
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level
Subject: Re: Food for Thought
Date: 5 Sep 1992 01:24:08 GMT
Organization: Marsnet
NNTP-Posting-Host: cash.ucsc.edu

In article <1992Sep4.230106.9559@sequent.com> curtj@sequent.com (Curt Jutzi) writes:
>	My Friend.. you have obviously not owned your own business. That may
>	not be why you started the business, but you'll find that once you 
>	have, it will (and should) be one of your primary goals. (of course 
>	as long as your business decissions are made ethically and morally).

	FYI I have owned a business for 6 months now and have 3 employees.
What I ment is that you shouldn't epect to make a boundle but you should at
least make enough to live on that is that is needed.

>	
>	If you have employees your obligation IS to make money.. There is 
>	NO WAY to run a business for any length of time if your focus is not
>	on making money.. 

	The focus should be on product, service, and quality not on money
that is a meseasure of how your doing.
Xref: sparky alt.business.multi-level:446 misc.entrepreneurs:2729
From: aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh Friedman)
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level,misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Definition
Date: 8 Sep 92 06:13:40 GMT
Organization: Marsnet
NNTP-Posting-Host: cash.ucsc.edu

In article <1992Sep8.151331.1@economics.adelaide.edu.au> ecrjbruce@economics.adelaide.edu.au writes:
>Look up Dexter Yaeger.  He is now a billionaire who started as an Amway
>disributor.  He has expanded into many businesses - construction, real estate,
>travel to name a few - yet he continues to build a very large and very
>profitable Amway business.  That is an opportunity open to all distributors and
>would seem to me that it's a benefit.  Maybe  you disagree?

	Yes I do that is just an other example of a well payed employee doing
some side work.  The side work I agree is entreprenuership but not the AMWAY
or any other MLM for that matter.   That is why it is a fraud people who do
it are under a false assumation of what they are doing.  I.e. thinking they
run the show when they are glorified employees.
Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level,misc.entrepreneurs
From: rbeck@mordor.dseg.ti.com (Ron Beck)
Subject: Re: Definition
Reply-To: rbeck@mordor.dseg.ti.com
Organization: When I get time...
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 20:06:58 GMT

In article <18hgakINN4b7@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh Friedman) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep8.151331.1@economics.adelaide.edu.au> ecrjbruce@economics.adelaide.edu.au writes:
|> >Look up Dexter Yaeger.  He is now a billionaire who started as an Amway
|> >disributor.  He has expanded into many businesses - construction, real estate,
|> >travel to name a few - yet he continues to build a very large and very
|> >profitable Amway business.  That is an opportunity open to all distributors and
|> >would seem to me that it's a benefit.  Maybe  you disagree?
|> 
|> 	Yes I do that is just an other example of a well payed employee doing
|> some side work.  The side work I agree is entreprenuership but not the AMWAY
|> or any other MLM for that matter.   That is why it is a fraud people who do
|> it are under a false assumation of what they are doing.  I.e. thinking they
|> run the show when they are glorified employees.

EXCUSE ME!!!  I am *NOT* an employee for the Amway corporation.  I wholly own and
operate my own business.  I have taken on the responsibility of accounts
receiveable, accounts payable, shipping, advertising, rent, etc...  As such, 
according to the Internal Revenue Service, I am able to deduct expenses
on a schedule C when filing my taxes.  My business consists of developing
distribution networks.  When I started, 100% of the job was performed by me.  As
my network grows, more of my "recruits" help me build more distribution networks.  

As an employee (yes I also have a JOB) I come into work each day, work 8-10 hours
and receive a paycheck every 15 days.  If I don't perform my boss will terminate
me.  He controls how much I'll make each year, when I can take my vacations,
etc...

If you believe I`m just a *well paid employee* 1) you're incorrect as I'm not on
the Amway Corp payroll (I couldn't be a distributor if I were & I don't live in
Ada Michigan) and 2) I already have one JOB and wasn't looking for another when I
started this business.

Now, if you believe this is just a pyramid (the few at the top make all the money
while those on the bottom do all the work) take a look at your org chart sometime.
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ronald J. Beck           | IP rbeck@mordor.dseg.ti.com |Do now what others
Member, Group Tech Staff | MaBell (214) 952-4566       |won't so you can do
Texas Instruments        |                             |later what others
McKinney, Texas          |                             |can't
---------------------------------------------------------------------------