From: kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Who cares
Date: 26 Jul 92 08:23:14 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

OAIn article <krikket.5213@meltdown.chi.il.us>, krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick) writes:
> In article <1992Jul23.120008.41843@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>,
> kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins) writes:
>>In article <krikket.5025@meltdown.chi.il.us>, krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. >'krikket' Krick) writes:
>>> In article <1992Jul21.100930.41773@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>,
>>> kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins) writes:
>  
>>>>But do you in any way support those who do these things?  What is
>>>>Sun's policy on hiring?  Are there many women in positions other than
>>>>service there?  Do they use a CFC cleaning agent in manufacturing
>>>>computers?  Are they open and tolerant of paganism?  Could I work
>>>>there and wear my pentacle?  How about being openly gay or lesbian?
>>>>Do they offer spousal benefits to those in same sex marriages?  How
>>>>are they on maternity leave?  Or do women get stuck in the
>>>>Mommy-track?  Did they make any campaign contributions to the Bush
>>>>campaign?  Do they have a day-care program?  

For future note.  The orignal poster was denying any responsibility
for oppression in the world.  I wanted to point out that all of us who
live within the system are connected by many threads to oppression.
We are connected by the policies of the company's we work for.  We are
connected by the companies we support as consumers.  There are other
ways we are connected, I was just pointing out these two at the time. 

This is a later paragraph.

>>I am not holding you responsible.  I am not holding anyone
>>in particular responsible.  I am recognizing responsibility.  We play
>>a part in the system.  We are connected by thousands of little threads
>>to each other.  Collectively we create soceity, and the soceity we
>>create, grooms men to be violent, criminals, rapists, racists, wife
>>beaters, child molestors.  These are the extremes, but they are all
>>too common.  Most of us don't get it quite so bad, maybe we are just a
>>little violent, maybe we interrupt women a bit more than men, maybe we
>>think women aren't quite as smart, whatever.  

This may not be perfectly clear.  I wanted to say that *I* am not
holding   *YOU* responsible for *ALL* oppression.  I am recongnizing
that we almost all play a part in supporting and reinforcing a
system of oppression, we are all responsible.  

> Now go back to your origional paragraph.  The shade of meaning has shifted
> here, somewhere.  You were asking "But do YOU...", and now you are reversing
> tracks by stating that you are not holding me responsible.  I suggest, sir,
> that you don't play both sides of the argument against each other, unless you
> are simply playing devil's advocate.  It get's hard to hold two conflicting
> opnions, which you seem to be attempting to do.  (But please correct me if
> I am wrong!)

I was replying to another poster who was denying any responsibility.
I was pointing out some ways in which that person might be
responsible for supporting a company that was oppressive.  Really, I
am not familiar with Sun's policy, so I could have been wrong.  But I
doubt Sun is all that progressive.  I don't perceive these opinions to
be conflicting.  

>>Recognizing the threads of responsibility that connect us to this
>>behavior, allows us to change, to bend, to shape ourselves into
>>something else.  It allows us to reverse the programming.  And it can
>>show us ways to alter the soceity that groomed us to be scum. 
>>
>>Now, do you get the picture?  Our responsibility is our key to change,
>>both ourselves and the system.  
> 
> Agreed.

Hurray!

-- 
___________________________________________________________________________

Stephen R. Figgins           |  There was an old woman
kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu   |  Who lived under the hill 
PO Box 1244                  |  And if she's not gone 
Lawrence, KS 66044	     |  She lives there still
___________________________________________________________________________
 
Newsgroups: alt.pagan