From: heimberg@pacific.mitre.org (Jeff Heimberger)
Subject: Re: Who cares
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 11:41:11 GMT

In article <2sgDoB2w164w@ailanth.UUCP> ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>> 
>> If you'd care to talk about this in a reasonable manner, please respond
>> again.  I refuse to add flames to your fire.
>> 
>no.  there IS no reasonable answer to ytour suggestion that gay rights 
>activists should be working for straight rights.  if you can't see that 
>by suggesting this, you are implying that gay people's problems in 
>society are no worse than yours, and that this is 1) insulting and 2) 
>stupid and possibly 3) bigoted, then there is really no poinbt in talking 
>to you. 

Perhaps I am guilty of the inarticulate expression of my views, but I'm
just a lowly computer nerd, and not a skilled debater.  However, (1) no
insult was intended, (2) I don't think I'm stupid (just opinionated),
and (3) I'm certainly not bigoted (ask any of my several gay, lesbian,
or bi friends).  I would urge you to keep to the issues at hand, rather
than pursue ad hominem arguments.

I will not even pretend that I understand all the issues surrounding
gay rights -- I am not a member of that community by my own choice.
However, I believe you are taking what I said out of context.  Gay
rights groups were one in a long list of groups that I said might be
better off working for the advancement of all humanity, instead of just
their own narrow interests.

Like it or not, the opinions expressed and fought for by <Insert Your
Favorite Activist Organization> are one drop in the bucket of the
American social scene.  Being just one drop, <IYFAO> has to compete for
attention in the Marketplace of Ideas [tm].  Americans, consumers that
they are, won't buy anything unless they see the value for them
personally.  I'm not saying that's the correct way to be -- I am saying
that it's the way it is.  Thus, <IYFAO> would be well advised to adjust
the message to fit the consumerist marketplace.

IMHO, <IYFAO> would fair better if they could demonstrate that by
making the changes they are fighting for, the American public would
derive some benefit.  For example, gay rights activists could show that
by accepting people for what they are, regardless of sexual
orientation, the American public derives some benefit.  The same goes
for women's activists, African-American activists, etc., etc. etc.
Perhaps that message is being put out -- but it doesn't come through
very clearly, at least not to me.  And, unfortunate as it may be, I'm
the type of guy <IYFAO> is trying to reach.

One other thing to consider.  It is relatively easy for <IYFAO> to
march in the streets and demand a bigger slice of the pie.  It is quite
another thing altogether for <IYFAO> to work to make the pie bigger for
all, and still increase their own slice.  I would encourage <IYFAO> to
lead by example, rather than by confrontation.

>you ARE helping to perpetuate the problems you talk about, just 
>by sounding off in this asinine way in this newsgroup.

I flatly reject this.  Any idea that can't bear discussion can't be a
very good idea.

>if you consider someone as moderate as janis an extermist who has no 
>credibility with you, then perhaps you ought to look at whether you are 
>not,k in fact, conservative.

I am, in fact, a conservative regarding many issues.  I am, in fact, a
liberal regarding many other issues.  I choose to place my support for
or against a particular issue based on the merits of the issue alone,
not on how it stands in the light of some ideological litmus test.  In
other words, I choose to think for myself, rather than allowing either
the left or the right to bully me into thinking their way.  I make no
apologies for that whatsoever.

Regards,

Jeff H...