HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: damage to locks by picking
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 01:44:09 GMT
Reply-To: margoli@watson.IBM.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In  <1992Aug18.235401.24471@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>  billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>
> Most house keys are also steel.

Most house keys are brass.  Those that aren't tend to be some other
relatively soft metal.  Steel keys would tend to eat up the key machine's
cutter.

While professional picks tend to be smooth, it's possible that home-made
picks could have some rough edges that would result in hacksaw action
during rapid raking.

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: C0031018@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Johannes Heyer)
Subject: Rental Car Locks (was Re: Lexus Locks)
Organization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 09:03:01 GMT

>hmmmm well the other day I found that all the keys on my key-ring that will
>actually go into the driver's doorlock on my car will unlock it...
 
When I made a trip to Florida with three friends of mine we rented a car at
Alamo. One day we drove to some sort of island near Miami (it was a nature
reserve I think). Because it is very popular among the tourists there were
rental cars of all brands (Hertz, Avis, ...). I went back to our car, opened
it and was a little confused about all the stuff my buddies put in there
while I was away ... You guessed it: that wasn't our car. But many of them
looked the same and many of them could be opened with our key.
 
Have fun
         jh
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
   |\/\/\/|      Office:                         Private:
   |      |      Rechenzentrum der TU            Johannes Heyer
   |      |      z. Hd. Herrn Heyer              Brinkstrasse 4a
   | (o)(o)      Hans-Sommer-Strasse 65          Germany - 3303 Vechelde
   \      _)     Germany - 3300 Braunschweig     Phone: +49 5300 / 67 14
    | ,___|      Phone: +49 531 / 391-5555
    |   /        FAX:   +49 531 / 391-5549
   /____\        EMAIL: C0031018 @ DBSTU1.EARN
  /      \              c0031018 @ dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (134.169.1.1)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: alex@otis (The Console DJ)
Subject: Re: Telephones
Organization: Novell Inc
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 00:09:42 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.154456.28508@riacs.edu> owen@olympus.arc.nasa.gov..arc.nasa.gov (Owen S. Nishioka) writes:
>I have heard, though I don't know if it's still accurate, that according
>to the FBI, only one person was ever know to break into pay phones.  He
>has since been caught - and I think he had some sort of special key that
>he had made after seeing the actual key.  Apparently it is not something
>most people would/could do.
>
>My understanding is that you can't open one, in the conventional sense.
>Correct me if I'm wrong.
>
Yeah didnt he get away with some $250,000 before he was caught?? I remember it
was some LARGE sum ( i kindof had the opinion you coulndt get more that you
would working a regular job)

<blah blah blah employer blah blah not responsible blah blah opinion >
From: ed.beaulieu@madness.network23.com (Ed Beaulieu) 
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: ...
Date: 22 Aug 92 09:00:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Terminal Madness BBS - Newport, RI - 401-848-9069
Reply-To: ed.beaulieu@madness.network23.com (Ed Beaulieu) 

        I'll pay big $ for anybody who can pick my bosses lock.
                                                                
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: damage to locks by picking
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 07:01:14 GMT

bx690@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Mirza) writes:
: 
: Hi,
: Just wondered if picking locks for practice (say your front door)
: could damage the lock in some way? 

Nope. Unless you pick it using a hammer. Much faster and easier, but
a lot noisier.

Bill
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: GALLs phone number
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:28:14 GMT
Reply-To: fadden@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Distribution: alt
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

I've gotten about a dozen requests for the phone/address of GALLs, inc.
I've been responding through e-mail, but there seems to be enough interest
to require a post...

If you want a catalog, call them at 800-477-7766 and ask for a catalog; I'm
sure they'll send you one.  If they ask you "are you a member of police/fire/
whatever", go ahead and say "no", they don't seem to care except for a few
items.

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
From: ov@saturn.cs.swin.oz.au (Owen Veenstra)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: cardkey system advice?
Date: 21 Aug 92 05:30:28 GMT
Organization: Swinburne Institute of Technology, Hawthorn, Victoria

In article <Bt5JvH.Hs4.1@cs.cmu.edu>, cbs+@cs.cmu.edu (Clauss Strauch) writes:
|> 
|> 	Unfortunately, nobody here has any experience at setting up such a
|> thing. Does anybody out there have advice on such issues as how much a system
|> like this should cost, particular pitfalls to watch out for, warnings or
|> recommendations 'bout vendors, etc?
|> 
|> 	Any advice would be appreciated.
|> 					-- Clauss Strauch
|>                                            cbs+@edrc.cmu.edu

    Clauss,

       I am a student at Swinburne University (Hawthorn Victoria Australia)
   and here for their software engineering lab they employ an locking system
   whereby the lock is magnetic(?).  The required key to unlock the lock is 
   called a mil-key (see pic below).  I believe that the key contains within
   it something that obscures part of a magnetic field; that this modification
   to the field is then signature of the key, and thus the key opens the lock.
   (But : please note that I'm taking a guess; I have no verification that
    what I have said is correct.)

      This system works wonderfully.  However, management's one flaw was to
   assume that no student would admit any other student; (thus the head of
   dept. would also have a log of who was in the lab when).  The students
   (being students) of course ignore the rules and basically let anyone 
   in that they wish to be admit, and in the process dampened the effect
   and reasoning for having a lock there in the first place.

      What is the moral ??  Have a good think about the limiations of such a
   locking mechanism.  Who do you want (a) in the lab, and (b) not in the
   lab.  I can't suggest any solutions to such a probelm; perhaps there is 
   no solution that will make management/security happy.  But irriguardless,
   forwarned is forarmed (for whatever good that will do).


      The milkey externals -->

           /\  
        /      \--------------             My apologies for the crudity
        |/|                   |       of the diagram... but ascii has some
        |||                   |       nasty limitations.
        |\|                   | 
        \      /--------------
           \/  

                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                This bit is placed
                within the "lock".


      If anyone out there in alt.locksmithing land has a better idea of how
    a milkey works, I would be interested.  If, for some reason, they do
    not wany to reply on the net, my email address is below.

                               My thanks in advance,
 
                               Owen.

           email address :  ov@saturn.cs.swin.oz.au
From: dude@losers.hacktic.nl
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Address Paladin Press
Date: 21 Aug 92 12:13:11 GMT
Organisation: black mail inc.

For all you people who asked for it :
here's the address of Paladin Press :

Paladin Press,
P.O. BOX 1307-2DT
Boulder, CO 80306
Telephone: 800 - 872 4993

They carry books about lockpicking by Steve Hampton, 
Eddy the Wire (what a name..) and others.
They also sell videotapes about lockpicking and forced entry.

(Maybe we should put the address in the FAQ ? )
From: aharris@athena.cs.uga.edu (Austin Harris)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: misc questions
Date: 15 Aug 92 18:38:24 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

From aharris Sat Aug 15 01:42:03 1992
Full-Name: Austin Harris
To: aharris

I''ve got an American Lock Company "series 5100" pin-tumbler

padlock and I was hoping someone could tell me a few things

about it -



What is that double circular thing on the bottom of the lock - one of

the circles is cut away to allow access with the key, the other circle

looks like its covering something and it also has another smaller

circle inside it, what is all this extra stuff for? Security? Does it allow

one to re-key the lock?



how difficult are these padlocks to pick, say compared to a master

5 pin padlock (no. 3)?



what is the purpose of that little hole on the back of the lock?



could someone tell me what percent of pin-tumbler padlocks and

deadbolts you end up raking as oppossed to picking with a hook,

do some locks pick easier with one method and not the other?  I

have a padlock which I can't pick with a hook (mainly because I'm

a beginner) but can rake easily, while my Kwiksets open a lot

easier with the hook pick and resist raking.



does anyone know of a specific supplier who will sell picks

seperately, I bought a set from Gail's and would like some more

rakes, hooks and wrenchs - but most of the catalogs don't seem to

sell them individually (only in sets) -



one final question - I seem to having a re-occuring problem picking

tumblers because it seems that I can "break" one or two pins but

after that the others won't break (in any sequence), the remaining

three pins seem to just be content being pushed up with their

springs pushing them right back down again - I've tried varying the

amount of tension but this doesn't seem to help -



one more final question - is there any reasonable way in which

someone in this group might purchase a lock-picking video or two

and rent them to interested parties (with a security deposit or

something) - the videos in the catalogs look very interesting and

helpful but not at 40 - 60 bux -



thanks 
&	O
From: lyn@centurion.ksu.ksu.edu (Myself)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Telephones
Date: 21 Aug 1992 12:35:43 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: centurion.ksu.ksu.edu

   As I recall (fuzzy memory alert!), when you open the telephone to take out
the coin box, it automaticly locks the box, which is then taken to the phone
company and emtied in a secure 'nickle room' (obvious name, obvious security).
To open one in the field, you basicly have to A) fake a key (I have never seen
one), or B)blown open the box. I would guess that the guy mentioned was either
a disgruntled phone employee or a very intelligent faker to make the key. Is
the key on a telephone one of the round keys like on a pop machine? If so, it
explains why they are not often robbed (picks cost ^ of $100!).
-- 
This was brought to you by Myself(lyn@matt.ksu.ksu.edu) who is all things here.
Head of Synergy Systems, a non-official group of aspiring hackers creating and
distributing software for the common good. Head office:Terra, Sol system. We
Flames accepted-and returned with interest and intelligence compounded.
From: stormoen@plains.NoDak.edu (Michael D. Stormoen)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: My First Try
Date: 13 Aug 92 08:05:54 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


  I'm new to the net, and I have become a very avid reader of
alt.locksmithing.  After reading about all types of techniques, and reading
the FAQ list, I wanted to try a slim jim.  A friend of mine has one, and
said he'd let me try it.  I have only seen a cop use one before (twice on
my car), and whatever is in the movies.  So I decided to practice on a
Plymouth Reliant because it was there.

  Well, I slid in the slim jim and just did what seemed right based on
what I've heard on the net.  In _3_ seconds I opened it!  It was a real
thrill, and is grounds for me to want to learn more about the beauty
of locksmithing.

  I hope this is encouraging for some of you other newcomers.

  I would appreciate it very much if someone would post or e-mail me some
info on how to make my own tools.  I plan on getting a book and/or video,
but just some little morsel just to keep me excited for now would be much
appreciated!

Thank you,

M. Stormoen

stormoen@plains.nodak.edu
From: lyn@centurion.ksu.ksu.edu (Myself)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Address Paladin Press
Date: 21 Aug 1992 12:38:31 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: centurion.ksu.ksu.edu

dude@losers.hacktic.nl writes:

>(Maybe we should put the address in the FAQ ? )

	I think so, considering that there is only 1 book and 1 pick place 
mentioned that I saw.
-- 
This was brought to you by Myself(lyn@matt.ksu.ksu.edu) who is all things here.
Head of Synergy Systems, a non-official group of aspiring hackers creating and
distributing software for the common good. Head office:Terra, Sol system. We
Flames accepted-and returned with interest and intelligence compounded.
From: holland@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Rich Holland)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Telephones
Date: 21 Aug 1992 12:11:58 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

cmarsigl@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Klif Marsiglio) writes:

>Anyone ever pick a pay telephone??? I never was able to get one open no matter
>what we did and we finally had to shoot it open :) (It was a friends, he brought
>it from home -- I would never run down a telephone booth just to steal a 
>telephone :)

Fortress Fones (tm) have some of the toughest locks to defeat.  I read
somewhere that up in Michigan (near the canadian border) they drained a
lake and found a BUNCH (like as in 50 or 100) phones.  Aparantly, that's
where people had been dumping them after tearing them open.  

People have broken rear axles by trying to rip them open with their
car and a chain.

Shotguns have been used in the past.

The neatest way I've heard of, and the same method aparantly used in
Michigan, was to duct tape the HELL out of the phone, after removing   
it from the wall and pouring water in and around the coin box.  You 
then let it sit outside overnight in the winter.  The ice freezes,
expands, blows the heck out of the metal.  :-)

-- 
Rich Holland              | INTERNET: holland@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
100 Jardine Terr, Apt A7  | BITNET  : holland@ksuvm
Manhattan, KS  66502-3357 | UUCP    : ...!rutgers!matt.ksu.ksu.edu!holland
"Jesus saves...but Gretzky gets the rebound!  He shoots!  He scores!!"
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Subject: Re: A question about safes......
Organization: Computing Center, North Carolina State University
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 22:42:23 GMT

In article <92229.133723IO10184@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO10184@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes:
> ...  I can
>just make out a transparent rectangle on the inside panel of the
>safe, it seems to have a couple dials behind it, do these dials
>show the combination to the safe????I have a hard time believing
>that they would be so lax, but what else could it be?

  It could be the time settings for the *three* timeclocks for
the timelock.  It doesn't hurt to give this information away,
in fact it actually helps.

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: gak@wrs.com (Richard Stueven)
Subject: Re: Paper clips
Reply-To: gak@wrs.com
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:05:01 GMT

In article 121@wrs.com, I wrote:
>A couple of weeks ago, someone posted some ASCII graphics describing
>how to pick a lock using two paper clips.  I printed the article but
>didn't save it, and now my hardcopy has gone missing.  If you still
>have it, can you send it to me?

Found it...thanks to Hobbit's archives (anonymous ftp to 
babyoil.ftp.com:/hobbit/alt.locksmithing.[12]  Great stuff!)

The article was written by Doug Jones on 20 Jul 92...I'll email a copy
to all requestors, unless 1) Doug objects, or 2) he reposts the
article.  (To those who have already requested, request again...I've
lost your addresses.)

thx
gak
107/H/3&4

Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Organization: large
Date: 22 Aug 1992 11:36:17 EDT
Expires: 1 Apr 93 12:34
Subject: fones
From: hobbit@babyoil.ftp.com (*Hobbit*)

phortress phones have lever locks, with all kinds of hairy notches in
the edges.  Not at all an easy picking proposition; I'd rather go after
a medeco.  A friend "found" a single-slot many years ago and we got it
open by drilling a small hole down in the right place near the keyway, allowing
direct access to the lever gate and post.  I think this was before they
started putting hardened plates over this area; if I remember right it was
fairly easy to drill.

Check the "security" archives at pyrite.rutgers.edu for the whole gory
rundown on the guy who was picking the payfones...

_H*
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: zcookbruc@cc.curtin.edu.au
Subject: Re: Lexus Locks
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 14:10:33 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.134332.10135@ncmicro.lonestar.org>, ltf@ncmicro.lonestar.org (Lance Franklin) writes:
> In article <1992Aug10.221603.1@cc.curtin.edu.au> zcookbruc@cc.curtin.edu.au writes:
> }In article <cuXyoB1w165w@tsoft.sf-bay.org>, bbs.ftiernan@tsoft.sf-bay.org (Frank Tiernan) writes:
> }> I was wondering about those remote keys Lexus uses on its car. I was
> }
> Seems to me a simpler solution would be using a receiver and some form of
> recording device.  The thief spots the car they desire to steal, hangs
> around about quitting time with a briefcase containing a receiver and
> a recorder concealed within.  The owner shows up, actuates the remote,
> and the combination gets recorded.  The next day, the thief shows up
> with a programmable homemade transmitter programmed with the code,
> presses the button, and voila, the car is gone.
> 

Only realy problem would be getting close enough to get a clean signal -
these things are realy low powered devices which don't generate very
clean signals in the first place.

If it's a large scam they're more likely to use a tow truck, and ignore
the alarm - why not every one else does.

"The best way to do somthing illegal is to make it look like you're
meany to be doing it." (Or similar) -- L. Long

I've seen a few cars being towed away, alarms blaring, when the council
wanted to move illegally parked cars.

...BRU
From: GEN5021@HUSKY1.STMARYS.CA (Saint Mary's University)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Opening a Dudley Combination Lock???
Date: 19 Aug 1992 15:45:50 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Does anyone know how to open a "Dudley" combination lock purchased
during the mid-80's?
From: eric@parallax.com (Eric Messick)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: damage to locks by picking
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:58:47 GMT
Organization: Parallax Graphics Inc, Santa Clara CA USA

bx690@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Mirza) writes:
: 
: Hi,
: Just wondered if picking locks for practice (say your front door)
: could damage the lock in some way? 

Well, here's what happened with me.

I picked the front door to my apartment, but did not know at the time
about holding the pick in the bottom of the keyway when you've turned
the core by 180 degrees.  The lock was mastered with some very thin
pins which fell into the slot at the bottom of the keyway (now at the
top because it's rotated half way around).  After playing around with
it for quite a while, I finally got it to turn, but I deformed at
least one of the short pins (they were slivers about .5mm thick) in
the process.  Of course, the lock had to be taken apart at this point,
and in the process several more of these tiny pins landed in the shag
carpet, never to be seen again.

So here I was with a lock that I couldn't get back together such that
my key would open it.  The apartment managment would no doubt be
upset.  So what I did was to reassemble it with half of the pin stacks
missing.  No doubt half the keys in the building would open the lock,
but as long as mine and the master would, noone would check.  Do you
go around trying all of your keys in every lock you find?  I suppose
they changed the lock after I left, but why would there be an extra
charge when the lock had to be rekeyed anyway?  I got the entire
security deposit back, so I'm happy.

All in all, an instructive incident.


-- 
-- eric messick

eric@parallax.com  uunet!parallax!eric
From: aharris@athena.cs.uga.edu (Austin Harris)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Tubular Locks
Date: 22 Aug 92 23:48:43 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

From aharris Fri Aug 21 22:48:13 1992
Full-Name: Austin Harris
To: aharris

Does anyone have any experience picking tubular locks with those tubular

picks (such as the ones on page 1 in the Kenco catalog)?  These are

expensive picks starting at 75 bux, do they facilitate picking these types of

locks?  How long does it take an experienced picker to pick a tubular lock?

If you pick a tubular lock you can supposedly decode the key, how difficult

is it to take a tubular code to a locksmith and have a key made?  Has

anyone had experience with any "padlock shim picks" (for example Kenco

p. 65)?



thanks in advance!
 %sCannot de
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: damage to locks by picking
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 23:54:01 GMT

randys@think.com (Randall Smith) writes:
: In article <1992Aug18.070114.25616@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
: >   : Just wondered if picking locks for practice (say your front door)
: >   : could damage the lock in some way? 
: >
: >   Nope. Unless you pick it using a hammer. Much faster and easier, but
: >   a lot noisier.
: >
: >   Bill
: 
:     Unless I'm very confused, this is incorrect.  There is the possibility
:   of damaging a lock by picking it, especially if you aren't very good at
:   picking.  Specifically, spring-steel is a lot harder than brass (which
:   pins are usually made of), and can wear it away, changing the lengths of
:   the pins, and hence (eventually) the proper working of the lot.  Raking
:   does this a lot quicker than pin-at-a-time picking (it's sorta like
:   trying to saw the pins lengthwise :-}), which is why purists argue in
:   favor of pin-at-a-time picking (it also requires more skill, and hence is
:   higher status :-}).  

Most house keys are also steel. They take a long time to wear the pins.
If you are gentle, then there is no danger in hurting the pins.

I would say that, in most cases, pin-at-a-time takes a little more skill.
However, it takes a lot of skill to rake many locks. It is more than just
random luck, regardless of what the purists argue.

I generally rake the first two or three pins - then individually pick the
rest. This seems to be the most time efficient, for me.

:     This shouldn't be a major problem unless you are having major amounts
:   of lack of sucesses--try to use finesse rather than brute force (pay
:   attention to what your fingers are telling you, etc).  Signs that you're
:   doing something wrong include brass dust in the lock and minutes of
:   raking without any impression of progress.  If either of these is true,
:   stop and buy a practice lock from the store instead of finding a subtle
:   way of locking yourself out of your house/apartment.

I agree. Picking, by any method, requires finesse. A properly picked lock 
will not show any visible signs of your efforts - nor will it be damaged
by your doing the picking.

Bill