From: han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Subject: 'Macrakis's Inability To Answer The Points 'Hartill' Has Raised...
Date: 26 Jul 92 02:20:46 GMT





<MACRAKIS.92Jul26152916@next4.osf.org>
macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)

>First of all, Dimitri, I think it is a waste of breath (or of
>keystrokes) to respond to Mutlu.  

When you have finished lecturing I'd suggest you answer the points
'Appressian' has raised below.

p. 133 (first paragraph)

"In this movement we took with us three thousand Turkish soldiers who
 had been captured by the Russians and left on our hands when the Russians
 abandoned the struggle. During our retreat to Karaklis two thousand of
 these poor devils were cruelly put to death. I was sickened by the
 brutality displayed, but could not make any effective protest. Some,
 mercifully, were shot. Many of them were burned to death. The method
 employed was to put a quantity of straw into a hut, and then after
 crowding the hut with Turks, set fire to the straw."

>3) Given Mutlu's record on quoting things out of context, 

Out of context? Come again.

"Foreword:"

"For example, we were camped one night in a half-ruined Tartar mosque, the most
 habitable building of a destroyed village, near the border of Persia and
 Russian Armenia. During the course of evening I asked Ohanus if he could tell
 me anything of the history of the village and the cause of its destruction.
 In his matter of fact way he replied, Yes, I assisted in its sack and 
 destruction, and witnessed the slaying of those whose bones you saw to-day
 scattered among its ruins." 

p. 20 (second paragraph).

"Our men armed themselves, gathered together and advanced on the Tartar
 section of the village. There were no lights in the houses and the doors
 were barred, for the Tartars suspected what as to happen and were in great 
 fear. Our men hammered on the doors, but got no response; whereupon they
 smashed in the doors and began a carnage that continued until the last
 Tartar was slain. Throughout the hideous night, I cowered at home in terror,
 unable to shut my ears to the piercing screams of the helpless victims and
 the loud shouts of our men. By morning the work was finished."

p. 203 (second paragraph).

"One evening I passed through what had been a Tartar village. Among the 
 ruins a fire was burning. I went to the fire and saw seated about
 it a group of soldiers. Among them were two Tartar girls, mere children.
 The girls were crouched on the ground, crying softly with suppressed
 sobs. Lying scattered over the ground were broken household utensils and
 other furnishings of Tartar peasant homes. There were also bodies of the
 dead."

p. 204 (first paragraph).

"I was soon asleep. In the night I was awakened by the persistent crying of
 a child. I arose and went to investigate. A full moon enabled me to make
 my way about and revealed to me all the wreck and litter of the tragedy
 that had been enacted. Guided by the child's crying, I entered the yard of
 a house, which I judged from its appearance must have been the home of a
 Turkish family. There in a corner of the yard I found a women dead. Her
 throat had been cut. Lying on her breast was a small child, a girl about a
 year old."

p. 19 (first paragraph)

"The Tartar section of the town no longer existed, except as a pile of
 ruins. It had been destroyed and its inhabitants slaughtered. The same fate
 befell the Tartar section of Khankandi."

p. 99 (third paragraph)

"The Dashnacks took advantage of this situation and extended their 
 revolutionary activities into the Russian province. They instituted 
 a campaign of terrorism and employed threats and force in securing
 contributions to the party funds from rich Armenians. A wealthy
 man would be assessed a stipulated sum. Refusal to pay brought upon
 him a sentence of death. 

 Every member of the party was pledged to carry out orders without 
 question. If a man were to be assassinated, lots might be drawn to
 select an executioner or the job might be assigned to one of the
 'mauserists' of the party."

>  I would not
>   try to come to conclusions about either the thesis or the original
>   quote without looking them up myself.

Be my guest. Any comment?

Source: Bristol Papers, General Correspondence: Container #32 - Bristol
to Bradley Letter of September 14, 1920.

"I have it from absolute first-hand information that the Armenians in 
 the Caucasus attacked Tartar (Turkish) villages that are utterly 
 defenseless and bombarded these villages with artillery and they murder
 the inhabitants, pillage the village and often burn the village."

>If you actually want to try to rebut Mutlu, I suggest you spend some
>time at the library and get some good evidence yourself to show that
>in fact what the quotes claim is false.

Brilliant logic.

Source #1: McCarthy, J., "Muslims and Minorities, The Population of 
Ottoman Anatolia and the End of the Empire," New York University Press, 
New York, 1983, pp. 133-144.

Source #2: Hovannisian, Richard G., "Armenia on the Road to Independence,
        1918. University of California Press (Berkeley and Los Angeles),
        1967, p. 13.

>As for myself, I think it is better to ignore his individual postings,

Bring tears to my eyes.

>although it is good from time to time to remind new readers of his
>past misquotes and other practices which would tend to discredit him.

Is this joker for real? If that does happen, look out the window and see
if there is a new star in the east.

>Anyone want to write a Mutlu FAQ?

Is it possible that you didn't care what became of you now?

Source: "Adventures in the Near East, 1918-1922" by A. Rawlinson,
Jonathan Cape, 30 Bedford Square, London, 1934 (First published 1923) 
(287 pages).

p. 184 (second paragraph)

 "...I had received further very definite information of horrors that
  had been committed by the Armenian soldiery in Kars Plain, and as 
  I had been able to judge of their want of discipline by their treatment 
  of my own detached parties, I had wired to Tiflis from Zivin that
  'in the interests of humanity the Armenians should not be left in   
  independent command of the Moslem population, as, their troops being
  without discipline and not under effective control, atrocities were
  constantly being committed, for which we should with justice 
  eventually be held to be morally responsible'."

p. 177 (third paragraph)

 "...Armenian troops, who, having pillaged and destroyed all the
  Moslem villages in the plain...."

 "Caravans of refugees were in the meanwhile constantly arriving from the
  plain, from which the whole Moslem population was fleeing with as much of
  their personal property as they could transport, seeking to obtain security
  and protection..."

p. 178 (first paragraph)

 "...in those Moslem villages in the plain below which had been searched for
  arms by the Armenians everything had been taken under the cloak of such
  search, and not only had many Moslems been killed, but horrible tortures 
  had been inflicted in the endeavour to obtain information as to where
  valuables had been hidden, of which the Armenians were aware of the existence,
  although they had been unable to find them."

p. 179 (first paragraph)

 "Shortly afterwards the head of the miserable column appeared. There were
  in all about 200 persons, mostly old men and women and children, with a
  few ox-carts, ponies, and donkeys, carrying all their worldly possessions,
  except a few sheep that they were driving before them. Their leader
  interviewed Bekir Bey, and was told to keep farther on into the hills,
  where he would be able to cross the frontier into Turkey unmolested by
  his enemies."

p. 181 (first paragraph)

"...the Armenians from the plain were attacking the Kurdish line with 
 artillery, with probably a large force in support."

p. 175 (first paragraph)

"The arrival of this British brigade was followed by the announcement
 that Kars Province had been allotted by the Supreme Council of the
 Allies to the Armenians, and that announcement having been made, the
 British troops were then completely withdrawn, and Armenian occupation
 commenced. Hence all the trouble; for the Armenians at once commenced
 the wholesale robbery and persecution of the Muslem population on the
 pretext that it was necessary forcibly to deprive them of their arms.
 In the portion of the province which lies in the plains they were able
 to carry out their purpose, and the manner in which this was done will
 be referred to in due course.

Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)