From: jwl@ferrari.cray.com (Jim Lynch)
Subject: Re: Anybody want to talk about Clover?
Reply-To: jwl@ferrari.cray.com (Jim Lynch)
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.  Eagan, MN.
Date: 12 Jan 93 10:32:27 CST

In article <1993Jan11.175448.5544@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, paulf@umunhum.stanford.edu (Paul Flaherty) writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.101849.25363@walter.cray.com> jwl@ferrari.cray.com (Jim Lynch) writes:
>>We need a "public domain" system to be distributed to multiple vendors, like
>>TAPR has done.  That is probably the only way we will be able to have reasonable
>>prices on advanced communications modes.  As long as the modes remain
>>proprietary, they will be expensive.  Anyone care to form a committee to design
>>such an advanced mode?
>
>Frankly, $1000 for the HAL CLOVER board is a good deal.  The amount of DSP
>hardware on the board is impressive to say the least.  The CLOVER software is,
>however, untrivial.  Aside from all of the adaptive filters and modems, 
>CLOVER makes extensive use of fast spectral Reed - Solomon coding systems,
>which are not much fun to write, I'm afraid.  Even when HAL does formally
>release a protocol spec, don't count on cheap knockoffs anytime soon.
>
>--
>-=Paul Flaherty, N9FZX | "My boy, we are pilgrims in an unholy land."
>->paulf@Stanford.EDU   |                                -- Dr. Henry Jones Sr.

I don't want this to turn into a flamefest, but let me point out a couple of "facts".

$1000 for a board comprised of fiber, plastic and silicon, isn't necessarily a good deal.

Now, there are a group of folks that hang around this net who have written and maintain
a very respectible Unix clone, Linux.  Somehow I gotta think that there were LOTS more
man hours that went into developing that software than HAL's clover board.  Granted, 
it took a special expertice to develop DSP modems, Reed- Solomon coding systems etc., but
developing a Unix-like kernel isn't a cakewalk for 6th graders either.  I see I didn't
mention that Linux is free for the asking.

Now I understand that HAL has spent a bunch of money to develop the CLOVER board and
they are entitled to ask whatever they want for their product to recoup their costs
and make a buck to boot.  I don't doubt that they have a fine product.


I won't accept the belief that:

1) That is the only mode of communcation that will provide reasonable thruput on HF.
2) No one else could come up with hardware/software to do a similar or better job
	for less money.

Maybe a cheap knockout isn't what the world needs.  Maybe the better mousetrap isn't
it.  Maybe we replace the mousetrap with something else.



Bottom line:
I think that there is the necessary talent hanging around to come up with a decent
design.  Hams aren't suppose to get rich from their hobby.  Helping each other is a way
of life for us.  We could do it if we wanted to.  I can't, I'm too stupid.  But there are
folks reading this that can.

enuff...

de Jim.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Lynch, Sales Analyst,  Cray Research, Inc. / ARS: K4GVO
Southeast District, Phone: (404) 631-2254, Email: jwl@sedist.cray.com
Suite 270, 200 Westpark Drive, Peachtree City, GA 30269