From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: First Gun Suggestions?
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:59:39 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <1992Sep12.000841.22476@amc.com> reb@amc.com (Bob Brunjes) writes:
#
#Gary, with all due respect, this appears to go against everything I
#think I know about handgun shooting.  I have been shooting and teaching
#handgun for more than 30 years, so this is not _completely_ unfounded
#opinion, but I'll stand still for come constructive correction.
#
#Sure, I _do_ start new shooters with a .22 auto, for a couple of 
#reasons.  One, it's easier to teach the very soft grip you must have
#to get all the accuracy out of your gun, and this especially includes 
#big-bores.  Two, it's easier to erase the flinch response when the
#pupil is shooting a .22.  I guess, in view of what you've said, both
#those items will put you over the top, but let me defend them.

Yes indeed, it is the "suspension" grip among other things that is
characteristic of shooters who learn on the .22. That's very bad
when you migrate to a weapon like the Glock 17 or Starlight BKS 
where the gun *will* jam if you hold it in a suspension grip. It's
bad in a Browning Hi-Power where the slide *will* make two furrows
in the back of your hand. It's bad in a .45 Government where trigger
action will be erratic because the grip safety isn't positively
disengaged. And it's bad in a heavy loaded short barrelled revolver
like a .41 Mag Blackhawk where you *will* be digging the hammer spur
out of your hand. Most especially, it's bad when you engage in any
rapid fire event like a bowling pin shoot against the clock, or in
a defensive situation. The suspension grip does not allow you to 
rapidly recover from recoil and reacquire the target.

#By the way, while I've heard people, usually non- or mostly-non-shooters,
#talk about having to "hang on for dear life or that dirty sumbitch will
#jump out of your hands and whack you in the head", I've never actually
#seen such behavior, let alone felt it.

I've only fired one pistol where a death grip was warranted. It was a
prototype 45-70 revolver loaded with hot rifle loads. The grip I use
and teach is the "firm handshake." That's all that's required for rapid
recoil recovery in the hottest factory guns. Many people who use the
suspension grip are doing so to compensate for other fundamental errors
like a cocked wrist. If you don't maintain a straight wrist, your groups
will grow as inconsistent muscle tension allows the weapon to twist by
varying amounts in your grasp before the bullet leaves the barrel. By 
using a suspension grip, you let the gun free recoil during the period 
the bullet is in the barrel. This compensates for the poor wrist angle.
But the loose grip doesn't let you recover quickly, and in some weapons,
will impede function or cause injury.

The finest combat masters advocate a two handed modified Weaver hold
for steadiest and most rapid shooting. The gun hand is pushed into
the off hand to create a stable dynamic tension. Now this isn't a 
"death" grip either. Only enough pressure is used to steady the
weapon under fire *and* recoil. 

#Two: when a handgun recoils past a certain threshold (different for each
#shooter) it's a bitch to lose a flinch, once acquired.  When the hammer
#drops on an empty chamber, no matter how punishing the round would have
#been, I want to see the muzzle rock-steady.  Anything less is sloppy
#shooting and poor accuracy.  When I see a pupil (or God forbid, me)
#flinch on an empty chamber, it's back to the .22 to lose the flinch.
#I've heard other shooters voice this opinion, too.

I've found that if you start a gunner out on a heavy pistol, he will
develop properly so that the dreaded flinch never rears it's head.
Most flinches are reactions to *noise* and not recoil. Getting a
shooter accustomed right away to the boom of a heavy gun and teaching
proper hearing protection and hold from the start means that flinches
just don't occur. The only flinchers I've ever seen were .22 shooters
venturing into high power territory. I've never heard of a high power
shooter developing a flinch upon picking up a .22. There's a lesson
there.

#As an aside, the .22 autos I use are both Rugers, one a 6" field-sight
#Standard Auto, and the other a 5" bull-barrel target model.  One is
#unabashedly a plinker, while the other I shoot more seriously.
#Interestingly, both seem to group about the same, but I can adjust
#sights on the target model.  I realize that guns like the Smith 41 and
#some Hi-Standards are higher-quality guns, but that doesn't seem to cheer 
#up the owners when the Rugers out-shoot them.  Now admittedly, this is
#not the formal match circuit anymore, but at the range of a gun club
#with a lot of serious shooters.  

I can shoot passably well with a Ruger, but it's too barrel light
for really serious work. My High Standard, with both weights set
all the way forward, is much better. It moves not at all from shot
to shot. In rapid fire strings, it just sits there on target. For
slow fire, the biggest tricks are learning to control your breathing,
heart rate, and learning to fire as the sight picture firms up. This
all takes under two seconds. Anyone on the line who has their gun in
firing position for longer than that without a shot is doing something
wrong.

#Seriously, if I'm wrong here I'd like to know how I went wrong; it 
#concerns me how two experienced shooters could have such diametrically 
#opposed views, and if I can shoot better, I'd sure as hell like to know 
#how. 

Mastering proper grip and posture is an exacting discipline that requires
conditioning and practice. When I'm at work, I have a two pound weight
that I hold at arm's length repeatedly all day. It doesn't waver anymore.
The firm handshake suits all shooting conditions while the suspension
grip is only useful for slow fire with light recoiling guns. A shooter's
grip should be automatic under all conditions so I use and teach a grip
that works under all conditions.

Gary