HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jjd1@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (james.j.dutton)
Subject: Re: [F] How to get rid of snails?
Keywords: snails fresh help
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 13:49:02 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.055922.27580@news2.cis.umn.edu> sdebol@tsp.med.umn.edu (Steven Debol (Nelson)) writes:
>>
>>I would not "treat" a tank with chlorox, which implies you're going
>>to leave the fish et al resident; I would use it to destructively
>>eliminate the snails (and everything else) before starting the tank up
>>again.	 Some folks have sufficient snail-phobia to go to this extreme.
>>So why do you proclaim it "ludicrous" before investigating?  I'm amazed
>>that you've been doing fish for 25 years but have not heard of this
>>procedure before.  It's quite common among the fish keepers I know.
>>
>>>Why, why its unnatural. I suggest if you don't want to stress the fish
>>>stay away from chlorox.
>>
>
>Just to be obnoxious here folks...  Bleach (or hypochlorous acid)
>is hardly "unnatural"--whatever that means.  A number of different
>organisms (including humans...) have cells which generate HOCl
>as an antimicrobial agent--is that "natural" enough for you?
>
 
NO.

OK everybody use bleach. I apologize. I'm ludicrous.
If I kept an open mind in 25 years of keeping fish I wouldn't have any
live ones. I've learned something.
 
Now while people say its quite common, in my years of keeping/breeding fish
and two years working at Midwest Aquarium (wholesaler in Illinois and
surrounding states plus numerous pet shop gigs) I never heard of it before.
Either has anyone I've spoken with. But from the response generated here
I will concede. 
Good show. Pip pip. Tar Tar and white fish.
 
- Naturally skeptical & a happy pessimist to boot.

 
================================================================================
 Sesquipedalian's 'R' Us. ZX-10. DoD#564. There ain't no more.
                                 doh#0000000005
================================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
From: Dmerrill@bnr.ca (Dana Merrill)
Subject: Re: (F)Wal-mart fish....
Followup-To: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria
Organization: BNR
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:10:46 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.222711.13225@bsu-ucs>, 01mbmccabe@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
wrote:
> 
> Our local WalMart has a fine (although small) fish department, and they amploy
> very knowledgable staff.  They also have a 3-day fish guarantee rather than the
> usual 1-day.
> 
> 				-Matt

Glad to hear it Matt, we are not so lucky here in Raleigh. At least not
based on my recent observations. 

I was in there (Wal-Mart on Glenwood Ave (complements of the tornado of
'88)) the other night and observed the attendant catch fish from multiple
tanks and put them into a single bag.  The tanks had thermometers boldly
displaying approx. 5 degree temp. difference.  He then went on to advise
the new owners to float the fish for 20 min. before releasing them into the
new tank.

When asked by the customer if they needed any of "this stuff" (looking at
some kind of declorinator), the attendant replied that they did need it and
that a "few drops" should be about right.  

In defense of the attendant he was no doubt just doing the best he could,
according to what little he had been told.  I have also seen him selling
hardware etc. But just the same, I can only imagine the kind of treatment
that the fish get in that store.

I'm really not saying that you can't get good/healthy fish at Wal-Mart,
K-Mart, Woolworth's, etc. but you MUST be careful. I have bought fish from
these places myself and was really mostly kidding Shaji when he mentioned
his "Wal-Mart" fish.  No doubt there are some of these stores that do a
better job than most pet stores.

==================================================================

Dana Merrill                                Bell Northern Research
DMerrill@BNR.CA                         Research Triangle Park, NC
==================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
From: menudo@irene.mit.edu (Roberto Estrada)
Subject: Re: High Nitrates [M][Filtration]
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: MIT Lab for Nuclear Science
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 22:33:00 GMT

In article <1ha2jjINNnrl@hayaku.protocol.zycad.com>, you write...
>I just didn't want any novices doing 99% water changes, and then wondering why
>all their fish/inverts were dead within a week do their biological filter
>bed going south :-).

This has bugged me for quite sometime. How can changing 99% of your water 
kill your filter bed.  If this is true, why bother with Wet/Drys, UGFs
or any sort of filter media. I assume that by using biological filters,
you are providing a bed for biological bacteria growth. If all the bacteria
was in the water, UV would kill it, ozone would kill it, etc.  I thought 
you can change all your water as long as the bio-filter is kept wet, the
new water is similar to the old in composition (pH, temp, hardness, etc.),
and great care is taken to shock the specimens as little as possible. 
Although I understand that there is bacteria in the water (and everywhere
else for that matter), I would think that it would be mostly concentrated
in the bio-filter.

I thought that when someone changed 99% of the water, they usually messed
up by also cleaning out their filters. In this case, of course you would
have a wipe out.  I've cycled tanks with a "dirty" sponge and none of the
old water with much success. Of course, you need some time for the 
bacteria to adjust to the new load.

Although, I don't think a 99% water change is the best idea, I think you
can do it under severe circumstances as long as your very careful. But,
that's just my opinion.

Roberto

P.S. I have done 99% water change without wiping out the tank. But I don't
advise it in a non-established tank or as common practice.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 15:07:44 EST
From: Larry Bunge <LLB@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Recommendation on cold water fish
 <1992Dec28.181759.6423@pixel.kodak.com> <1992Dec28.221418.11067@rdg.dec.com>
 <1992Dec30.083132.13523@netcom.com>

What is wrong with guppies? I have a little 2-1/2 gal I set on a shelf in my
bathroom with two pairs of guppies and 2 ghost shrimp. The only accompliments
are gravel to cover the bottom, some hair grass, willow moss and water sprite.
Oh, and a thermometer stuck in a back corner - the temp stays about 65. (And
yes it is in a convenient place for viewing while seated - enough said about
that.)

In the past I set up a 2-1/2 gallon with bumblebee loaches which also made a
pleasant aquarium (bumblebees are too mean to put with other fish anyway).

Killifishes may be expensive and tempermental.

White Clouds would do well but they are a mountain stream fish and I don't
think they would fit a 2-1/2 as well as they would a larger aquarium where they
could school. (I have 8 in a 75 gal community where they contribute their part
to the overall effect.)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
From: Bousquet_David@msm.cdx.mot.com
Subject: Re: Feeding Tri-Color Sharks
Organization: Motorola_Codex
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 14:27:48 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.125950.10611@shearson.com> stu@mbsdev24.shearson.com
(Stuart Bernstein) writes:
>  I recently bought two tri-color sharks from the local
>  aquarium,  They are in a 55 gallon tank with a variety
>  of fish (2 Dwarf Gouramis, 2 Rasp.Barbs, 5 Cardinal Tetras, 3 Zebra danios)
>
>  They seem to be VERY shy.  They hide under a cave in the corner of the tank.
>  When it comes to feeding, all the fish come to the top except the Tri-Color
>  sharks.  
>
>  I went out and bought sinking pellets for middle and bottom feeders.  
>  Last night after dropping the pellets,  the Sharks still stayed under the
cave.
>  The other fish wound up eating the pellets.
>
>  Any suggestions for getting these guys to eat.  Its been about 4 days since
>  I purchased them now !
>
>							Thanks 
>
Stuart,

I have raised several pairs of tri-color sharks.  They are indeed very shy,
especially at first.  I have had my best success with purchasing very young
fish usually for $1.50 ea.  This gives them plenty of time for them to get used
to you.  

I feed them large Tetra flakes which float for a little while then begin to
sink.  I think the key to the very shy ones, is to stand out of sight while
they are eating.  At night you don't want to have the light on in the room,
just the tank light.  Sit still at a distance and they should eat.

Oh! If the water is too acidic they may not eat either.

Dave

Xref: sparky rec.aquaria:9744 alt.aquaria:6349
From: gdrew@cs.umd.edu (Greg Drew)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria
Subject: Opinions on new tank setup.
Date: 30 Dec 92 06:16:46 GMT
Followup-To: rec.aquaria
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

Following the holidays, I now have in my posession: 1 20g(long) tank which I
resealed over the summer, and I stand for said aquarium (built by my fiancee's
father as a christmas present).  Needless to say, I am eager to fill it with
water, plants, and fish.  However, I thought I would toss out my proposed setup
for a reality check.  I've done 5 and 10g tanks for years, but never anything 
bigger, so it seemed wise to ask.

The (proposed) setup:
Inhabitants:
	2 to 4 Angelfish
	6-12 Rummy Nosed tetras
	a 5" Clown Pleco named "Squiggles" by my fiancee
	2 Clown Loaches bought a few years ago.  The book said "not likely
		to exceed 4 inches" :)  They are about 1.5" each.
        (Just to prevent any accidental flamage, I am of course not going to
	 add all of these at once, and I will cycle the tank properly :)
Plants:
	Several Echinodorus of varying species
	Anacharis
	Cambona Carolina

Target environment:
	Temp 78-80F PH 6-6.5 Hardness < 50ppm (mine tests at 150 from the tap)
	Nitrates < 40ppm
	Can someone recommend a good low-range ph test.  Mine only goes to 6.0,
		and after the recent article about test accuracy in FAMA, I
		would like one with its range centered at 6.0.

Heaters:
     Two 75 watt supreme over the side types.  I will stick with these unless
anyone can give me a convincing argument for the more expensive submersible 
types.

Filtration:
     1 Penguin 300 with bio-wheel.  I have  not used one before, but I have
seen and heard (mostly) good things about them.  In addition, 
I will either run a tetra sponge filter or a box filter.  The tank had come
with an under-gravel type filter, but plants seem to do better for me without
them.

Lighting:
     I have two ideas under consideration.  One is a 2 bulb 36" shop-light.
The other is building a light hood using 2 24" bulbs.   Any comments?
As I have had good luck with vita-lites in the past, I will probably use those 
as bulbs.

Substrate:
     Dark gravel.  I am also planning on using Tetra's Initial-D.  I know some
here do not like it, but I have never had a problem with it.

Decorations:
     Driftwood, and perhaps some vertical slate near the back of the tank.

I am not planning on using C02, since my total budget is $150, and I plan on
using $50 on a few new aquarium books.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Drew                 | N3MXX 
gdrew@trellis.cs.umd.edu  |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ulf.sandas@compart.fi (Ulf Sandas)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: CLOUDY WATER
Date: 28 Dec 92 14:38:00 GMT
Reply-To: ulf.sandas@compart.fi (Ulf Sandas)
Organization: ComPart BBS, Helsinki-Finland, +358 0 506 3329 (14 lines V.32bis)

DB>Path: fuug!mcsun!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!convex!egsner!dalnet!u2u!damon.bo
DB>From: damon.bowman@u2u.lonestar.org (Damon Bowman) 
DB>
DB>My problem now is that after running fine for about two months, the
DB>water started getting cloudy.  It has been VERY cloudy for over a mont
DB>now.  I was concerned at first, but was told that it would clear up in
DB>few days and was due to the cycling of the bacteria.  I am concerned
DB>again because the cloudiness does not seem to be going away.
DB>

Have you tried to fill the filter with some active carbon? I've also had 
problems with cloudy water but after I put some active carbon into the 
filter everything started to look brighter. After a couple of days you'll 
notice that the water is super bright! I use carbon in my filter all the 
time now and I change the water in my 100 liter once a month. Also pay 
attention on how much food your fishes get every day. If you feed them too 
much the water will stay cloudy even with active carbon.

Uffe

---
 . WinQwk 2.0 a#0 . Unregistered Evaluation Copy
                                                                                                   
----
+--------------------------------------------------+
| Helsinki, Finland  -  Number 1 BBS in Finland    |
+--------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
From: Lynda Fincham <gaea@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Bloated tetra
Organization: ZOOiD BBS
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 18:59:34 GMT

I have a 35gal community tank, fairly heavily planted with species varying
from amazon swords, jungle val, watersprite, hygrophilia and several other
species I'm not sure of. The tank is kept between 75-80 degrees (it fluctuates
because it's near a radiator). I have four small angels (1-2" long), 2 pim
catfish (2" and 4"), 5 x-ray tetras, and 5 neon tetras. I don't precisely know
what the pH, ammonia, etc are, but when they were last tested, everything was
well within normal range, with the exception of having very hard water (300+).

Last night one of my neon's seem to get "bloated" - ie, his stomach got very
large, and he couldn't sink to the bottom. He spent about half his time trying
to swim downwards at a rather steep angle, and the rest of the time lying on
his side on the surface, resting I assume. I went out about 9pm, and didn't
get in until 1am or so. I couldn't find him floating on the surface, so I
figured that he'd either died, or gotten better. This morning he was fine, no
further problems swimming, and he ate the flake food that I usually feed them.

What I want to know is what causes this, and I can I prevent it happening
again? Is it the flake food I'm feeding them (Cichlid flake and Tetramin
generic flake food)?

---
Gaea (Lynda Fincham aka Mother Nature)   gaea@zooid.guild.org
ZOOiD Online, Toronto, Canada            (416) 322-7876
Free and Paid Public Access Usenet       (416) 322-0920
"It's easy to spot the optics."

Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria,sci.aquaria
From: daf@herky.cs.uiowa.edu (David Forsyth)
Subject: Re: Nervous Festivums (F)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:28:58 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

From article <1992Dec22.000418.3075@Veritas.COM>, by oleg@Veritas.COM (Oleg Kiselev):
> daf@herky.cs.uiowa.edu (David Forsyth) writes:
>>Problem: the festivums are extremely jittery and nervous; they are pale, ...
>>No ammonia, no nitrite, rather more nitrate than I'd really like (60ppm on
> 
> That may be it: the nitrates are too high.  I am convinced that high nitrates 
> cause the stress and skittishness in a number of species of fish, cichlids
> among them.  Lower the nitrates to below 10 ppm, 3 water changes of 50% over
> the course of 3-4 days -- drain 50% of the water and refill the tank at a 
> very slow rate, perhaps 1-2 gal/hr.  If you are worried about your filters
> dying, you might want to direct the trickle of refill water into the filter to
> keep the bacteria wet and aerated. 
> 
> The other useful thing is to get some inoffensive dithers.  Large pencilfishes
> come to mind.
> -- 
> Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian.
> 
> Oleg Kiselev                                             oleg@veritas.com
> VERITAS Software                           ...!{apple|uunet}!veritas!oleg

Thanks to all the many who replied with help and suggestions, mostly by
email;  Oleg's note, above, expresses the consensus.  I've done two 50%
water changes already, and have more heavy changing planned, but can
already see a difference - they look a lot happier.  This may also have
to do with the small feeder guppies I gave them to help recovery from the
water change, but I'm a convert to the nitrates theory.  

BTW, Baensch says that Festivums should not be kept with Neons, "which are
are favorite food, and will be eaten."  Is this the Neons with the wooden 
or what?  Catching four or five small feeder guppies keeps my four Festivums
busy and amused for hours; mine, at least, are hopeless predators.  Anyone
else had experience here?  I've seen a reference somewhere to Festivums eating
mainly plant material - does this ring true?

many thanks for all the help I received.

daf
From: cowan@cerianthus.pinetree.org (Darin Cowan)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Advice about adding a Black Ghost
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 04:11:04 GMT
Organization: The Aquarium, Ottawa, Ontario

bbs.mirage@tsoft.net (Jerry Lee) writes:

> Do black ghosts do well in commnunity tanks?  I went to 4 different pet 
> stores and two said that they do well in community tanks and two said 
> they would eat everything except the angels and Head and Tail lights.
> 
> I have 6 neons, 1 black shark, 2 glass fish, 2 bandit cats, 2 angels, 2 
> female mollies, 1 khuli loach, and 1 large claw crab.

I have a black ghost (9" long) in a community tank (50 gal) with 2 angels, 
gouramis, pleco and some algae eaters.  I used to have some head and tail 
lights, and others.  In fact, the BG is just about the oldest fish in the tank.

It has never eaten any of the tank mates except tiger barbs, and then only
when the barb went to nip the tail, and nipped the head instead (15 x :-( )



Darin Cowan - cowan@cerianthus.pinetree.org - I'm really me!

Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
From: bbs.maddox@tsoft.net (Otto Maddox)
Subject: Re: Bloated tetra
Organization: The TSoft BBS and Public Access Unix, +1 415 969 8238
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 17:34:14 GMT

Lynda Fincham <gaea@zooid.guild.org> writes:

> Last night one of my neon's seem to get "bloated" - ie, his stomach got very
> large, and he couldn't sink to the bottom. He spent about half his time tryin
> to swim downwards at a rather steep angle, and the rest of the time lying on
> his side on the surface, resting I assume. I went out about 9pm, and didn't
> get in until 1am or so. I couldn't find him floating on the surface, so I
> figured that he'd either died, or gotten better. This morning he was fine, no
> further problems swimming, and he ate the flake food that I usually feed them

My Frontosa does something like this often right after he eats.  While he 
doesn't look bloated he has trouble  sinking.  After watching and 
worrying over him for about a week a notice he would either burp out some 
large amounts of air wich I assume he swallowed with his food or he would 
"fart" for lack of a better word.

Mine only does this occasionally and he is the only fish I have that does 
it.  Could be your problem.

[] Charles Durand [] +1 415 969 1634
Internet: bbs.maddox@tsoft.net
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
From: maz@Turing.ORG (Michael A. Zang)
Subject: Re: Complete beginner has dying fish
Organization: The Turing Project, Public Access Internet Host
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 13:44:36 GMT

In article <27DEC199201001588@zeus.tamu.edu> s0k5099@zeus.tamu.edu (KHAN, SHAHRIAR) writes:
>	Almost all  my fish are dying from a furry white growth all over their
>bodies. I am clueless.
>
>-Lost.
>


This could be a variety of diseases ick,velvet,etc. Go to your local fish store
and ask them for the appropriate cure. There are many good medicines which mighthelp out. Your tank sounds pretty far along though so don't be too disapointed
if you loose most of your fish. Also make sure that the water is in good shape.
A good environment is a must, drugs can't do everything.

			Later,.....Mike
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Michael A. Zang                              "And the kids they dance and   -
- Computer Operations ITC                       shake their bones while the   -
- The University of Virginia                    politician's throwing stones, -
From: mdh0957@ultb.isc.rit.edu (M.D. Haupert)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Dead Pl*co!!!
Date: 30 Dec 92 03:40:04 GMT
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Originator: mdh0957@ultb

ghart@ems.cdc.com writes:
>howardr@col.hp.com (Howard Rebel) writes:
>|> bmoss@ejv.com (Brian Moss) writes:
>|> > [ all deleted ]
>|> [ mass deletions ]
> [ mega-deletion ]
>
>suggest that and the canned beans.  I'll buy a small zucchini about once a
>month for a treat, but it's relatively expensive.  Does any know what
				        ^^^^^^^^^
WHERE DO YOU PEOPLE LIVE!!!  THE DESSERT????  I have a basement full
of canned zucchini.  I only planted three mounds ( 5 seeds each ) and
ended up with over 60 LOGS of the stuff.  I let one grow the entire
season and it got as big as my leg!  I'll sell it to ya by the ton.
8D  ( smilie added for the humor impared )
oh, this is X.aquaria so I'll add this much, my P****o's are spoiled
monsters due to my ignorance of vegitation control.

> [ lesser deletion ]

-- 
mdmh von rit ( reality is what you make it )
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: frogs
From: Eric Schweitzer <ERSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Saturday, 2 Jan 1993 00:36:26 EST
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

In article <148@jptcs.COM>, Steve.Kilbey%bbs@jptcs.com (Steve Kilbey) says:
>
>Here is an information message. I left a message some time ago asking .....
>............................ You see, I had frogs before (only 1 inch long)
>and they ate 10 neons in a day. So I got rid of them, and then bought really
>small ones. So I am safe for a while.
> What I would like to know, is, since they are African frogs, I was
>wondering if they can be put with African Cichlids? One person wrote back
>and said no, ..................

It may well depend on what an 'african frog' is. I have two small green
froggies with webbed feet that are about 1.25 inches long. I've had them
for almost a year, and they aren't getting any bigger. They are in a
community tank, and get along just fine with the small fish there
(cardinals are the smallest).

I have seen other frogs, also called African frogs. They have round
things on the ends of their toes, and get MUCH bigger than my guys.
(I think I've seen them in both green and white, but I'm not certain.)
I have no doubt these big ones would eat cardinals for brunch.

So, we seem to be stuck with the problem of 'what is an african frog?'
(If I had an 'american frog', what could you say about it? How big
might it get? Africa is a BIG place.)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria