HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD:  rec.music.enya
Date: 9 Apr 1992 08:23:01 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Apr9.014054.2819@amhux2.amherst.edu> twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>The passage of rec.music.phish and, to a lesser
>extent, alt.music.enya has rather badly damaged newbies' impressions
>of the newsgroup creation process.

Damaged it or liberated it?

In particular, the Erlandites would have folks believe that a 100-message/day
rec.music.misc is not too much to wade through. Obviously, folks disagree with
that. This proposal is yet another sign that rec.music.misc is breaking up,
whether the Erlandites like it or not.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by a .sig virus.
         "Grow up children. Purchase lives." -- Geoff Collyer
From: smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.arts.manga...etc.....
Date: 10 Apr 92 13:47:10 GMT
Reply-To: smith@ctron.com
Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc.

In article <44582@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang) writes:
>     Maybe I got it wrong, but the discussion over "rec.arts.comics.manga"
>seemed to have created  a thought of "rec.arts.anime.animation" in my
>mind.

Then there is no difference between manga and comics in general, and you should
be talking about manga in rec.arts.comics.  Is there something really difficult
about all this?

Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com) No, I don't speak for Cabletron.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is called a "disgrace",
that two are called a "law firm", and that three or more become a "Congress".
Date: 11 Apr 92 05:28:04 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: The rec.arts.{comics.}manga wars continue
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith) writes:
 >Notice that one group is already following the nomenclature, and it leaves
 >the whole rec.arts.comics group ready to absorb any new comic genre that comes
 >along, or to split into appropriate special interest groups when traffic gets
 >overwhelming:
 >
 >rec.arts.comics.x-men
 >rec.arts.comics.archie
 >rec.arts.comics.b&w
 >rec.arts.comics.adult
 >
 >and so on.  That's WHY we have the hierachy, and the obvious next step for
 >fans of manga is to create rec.arts.comics.manga.

These examples demonstrate why rec.arts.comics.manga is utterly
unsuitable.  For a start, it establishes level equivalences of manga with
X-MEN and Archie, which is not at all sensible.

And then there's rec.arts.comics.b&w, which theoretically would
receive 99% crossposting from rec.arts.comics.manga,  and
rec.arts.comics.adult, which would also overflow with manga traffic.

(If the net failed to give manga an accurate position in the namespace,
that is.)

Not to mention that manga aren't comics.   (Seeing it's been mentioned
about twenty times already.  Ah, I knew the RFD shoulda been clearer.)



--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: phyliew@nuscc.nus.sg (Liew Soo Chin (Dr))
Subject: Re: RFD for new IMAGE PROCESSING newsgroup
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 02:52:18 GMT

bankst@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Timothy Banks) writes:
: I'd like to support the comment made by Daniel Briggs that a lot of image
: processing techniques are used in the sciences, and so a sci.imaging group
: would be nice.
:
	Yes, I'd like to support the creation of a sci.imaging group, too. 
I have worked in the area of medical imaging (computed tomography,
ultrasound, PSL phosphors) and am presently involved in proton microbeam
imaging of elemental composition in materials. I think people involved
in other imaging modalities (electron microscopy, photothermal imaging,
photoacoustic imaging, tunnelling microscopy ....) might also be
interested. I'd like to know how people in other areas solve certain
problems which may be common to all of these imaging modalities (eg.
deconvolution).
: 
: But the big question is - are there enough science imaging people out there
: to justify the group? While it would certainly be useful...it must be being
: used to be so!
:
	That's true.

S C Liew, PhD
Dept. of Physics, National University of Singapore.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| S. C. Liew, PhD                  |  e-mail: phyliew@nuscc.nus.sg  |
| Department of Physics            |  telephone: (65) 772-2614      |
| National University of Singapore |  fax: (65) 777-6126            |
Date:  9 Apr 92 01:32:51 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga vs. rec.arts.comics.manga
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
 >On a network that is global in scale and which uses English as its primary
 >language, "manga" are a subclass of the larger group "comics".  Even the
 >fj.* hierarchy uses "rec.comics" as the newsgroup name. 

Like "football" is a subclass of the larger class "soccer".

This argument holds no water at all.  Give it up.

Rec.arts.manga will make it fine.



--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.
From: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: The rec.arts.{comics.}manga wars continue
Date: 15 Apr 92 09:12:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.sgs2bINNn3r
Reply-To: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
Organization: The Sinister Icy Black Hand of Death Club
NNTP-Posting-Host: hailstorm.berkeley.edu
Originator: goldfarb@hailstorm.berkeley.edu

In article <31624@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> tkim@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Tonghyun Kim) writes:
)In article <1992Apr13.223647.16643@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
)The term "manga" is a very tricky word. In Japan and Korea (pronounced
)MAN-HWA in Korean, but with exactly same chinese characters), the word 
)"manga" is used for anime/animation as well. Anime fans wouldn't use 
)"manga" for anime but non-anime fans (who are the majority of the society) 
)don't distinguish anime from manga; to them they're all manga (manhwa).
)
)So the definition manga = comic is NOT true. Only PRINTED "manga"
)can be called "comic".
)
)Tonghyun "Vajra" Kim

	But we already have a group for animation -- rec.arts.anime.
Presumably rec.arts.(comics.)manga would not primarily be meant for
discussions of animated manga, since those discussions could take
place in rec.arts.anime. What does that leave? Printed manga. Which,
by your own statement here, *is* comics.

	Maybe we should create soc.culture.japan.manga and change
rec.arts.anime to soc.culture.japan.anime.  1/2 :-)

-- 
David Goldfarb    goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu   (Insert standard disclaimer)
"Yes, netrek is very relaxing. The beauty, the calmness. It is being used
experimentally to reduce blood pressure in patients at the Mayo Clinic."
			-- Mark Hall, on alt.games.xtrek
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: steph@cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson)
Subject: Re: RESULT: soc.religion.mormon fails 135: 169
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 03:06:39 GMT

In <14351@pitt.UUCP> geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks) writes:

>In article <z#@byu.edu> gritton@byu.edu writes:
>>
>>Go ahead and propose it, but don't count on it doing any better. There's
>>a fatal flaw here: in the temple/censorship issue, the two sides feel
>>strongly enough to kill a proposal they don't want. It will just change who
>>votes no.

>I noticed many no votes from BYU, so I expect that there was more
>to the "no" votes than those who thought the moderation was censorship.
>Certainly some of the things the church has said recently could be
>interpreted to mean that they were opposed to such forums in general.

>I propose that those who are interested in discussing Mormonism
>join one of the mailing lists and forget about making a usenet
>group.  These are very lively, but without the usenet flaming.
>I really can't see what need isn't being served by these lists.

What need?

1)  Convenience -- it is easier to follow up, to send private e-mail, and
to choose interesting messages & comments in usenet than in a mailing list.

2)  Distribution -- some who aren't willing to wade through hundreds of
e-mail messages a week probably would be willing to browse a newsgroup.

I don't think the flaming level on a moderated group would be any worse
than what occurs on a moderated mailing list (like MORMON-L).

Moot point, in any case.

-- 
Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Gigabit Study Group 

  "It is considered good to look wise, especially when not 
   overburdened with information" -- J. Golden Kimball
Xref: sparky news.groups:10373 rec.arts.sf.movies:3320 rec.arts.comics:13281
From: charyma@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.arts.sf.movies,rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: RFD: alt.who-would-win
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:03:39 GMT
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY


 
>>Who cares?  
> 
> I do, for one.
> 
>>If it will get this stupid, pointless thread off this newgroup, 
>>then I say go for it.  
> 
> I think this thread is no more stupid and pointless than *some* I have seen.
> Is my opinion equal to yours?
> 
>>Can someone out there who knows how create alt.who-would-win?  
>>I'm not sure how, but I know it isn't hard to create an alt group.
> 
> That last sentence is contradictory.  If it's easy, it should have been
> done by now.  If neither you nor most others know how, it's not easy.

Actually, it used to be quite easy to create an alt group unilaterally,
but sys admins didn't carry them all.  The mechanics have changed
and I'm not certain what involved now.  Ask your sys admin!
> 
> Reminder: the best way to get rid of "stupid, pointless threads" is to
> avoid following them up.  :-)
> 
> RG
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga vs. rec.arts.comics.manga
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:19:48 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair) writes:

>hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
> >    I see we now have someone else who seems to feel that he can speak
> >for the entire readership of alt.manga.

>He does.  There was already plenty of talk about naming the new group
>on alt.manga; the consensus was that rec.arts.manga was by far the
>most desirable.  Were you there?

    Just because the majority agreed on the name, doesn't give anyone
the right to speak for the minority. No I wasn't there, if I had known
that the readership of alt.manga was planning to move their group to the
mainstream, then I would have most certainly been there, and I would
have been stating exactly the things that I am here.

> >And if you think that you will
> >feel bunched in, then I feel sorry for you.

>Nah, I don't think you were.

    Whether or not you choose to doubt the sincerity of my statement,
won't change that fact that I meant what I said.

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | Common Taxpayer Q&A: Q. If I use the 1040 how
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   | do I indicate my preference for the Elvis stamp?
 Mac Database Developer     | A. You write THIN ELVIS or FAT ELVIS in the box
 Dartmouth Medical School   | "Spouse's Social Security #." -Dave Barry
From: pckyip@athena.mit.edu (Patrick C Yip)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:53:19 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1992Apr9.175014.27982@midway.uchicago.edu> mss2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>Well, I'm probably not going to make any friends with this, but
>here goes.

No, you are :)
Nice to meet you :)

>1) It seems clear to me that manga are a subset of comics.  If someone
>who had never heard of manga needed an explanation of what they
>were, the answer would be comics of such and such a genre produced
>primarily but not exclusively in Japan.

That's true, and that's like someone who had never heard of Bonsai needed
an explanation of what they are like, the answer would be a Pot-Plant with
such and such characteristics, originated in China and Japan.

Admittedly the charter is difficult to write. Trying to explain the subject
without returning to the Japanese word is not easy.

>2) However, it's also true that anime is a subset of movies.  Yet
>we have rec.arts.anime, not rec.arts.movies.anime, despite
>the existence of an entire rec.arts.movies hierarchy.

Similiar cases can be found here and there. 

>3) It's eminently clear that the people who are interested in
>the subject of manga do not, for reasons which are unclear
>to me, wish to be in the r.a.c hierarchy.  Fine.  No one who
>knows what manga are will be confused, no one who doesn't
>will care.

Point well made, and you are very right to say "It's eminently clear"

>Finally, I do _not_ understand the vehemence that these bloody
>newsgroup naming/split issues generate.  You'd think that 
>we were discussing the naming or splitting of one's own
>child!  I've seen more bile and flamage on the subjects
>of splitting the frp and certain other groups and on the
>naming of groups relating to manga and (Asian) Indian-American
>culture than I've seen on anything short of the Turk-Armenian
>wars which rage across soc.history, talk.politics.soviet, etc
>ad nauseum.  It's _just_ a _name_, people!  No lives at stake,
>no livelihoods, no liberties.  Nomenclature and directory
>structures in the /news directory, that's all.  Will _someone_
>please tell me why it's worth all the storm and strife?

I wonder too. Somebody is really on his nerve, I think.
BTW even for the stubborn, rec.arts.manga isn't entirely inappropriate, I 
 think? It's nothing absurd like rec.manga.

Finally, no HATE VOTE please. Debate is an art of communication, and sometimes
it's difficult to keep a calm mind when you are so into it.

Patrick YIP

>mss2@usite-next.uchicago.edu     Isaac Asimov, _Foundation_

PS Let me say my prayer to Asimov, the BIG master of SF. May he Rest In Peace.
From: cudcv@warwick.ac.uk (Rob McMahon)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga vs. rec.arts.comics.manga
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:56:16 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, Warwick University, UK

In article <axolotl.703384820@syzygy> axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au writes:
> >Do you want to get flooded with "What's a manga?" postings?
>
>I imagine the same mechanisms that stop soc.motss from heaving under "what's
>a motss?" will suffice.

Funny you should say that ... I've just been wading through another `what's a
motss' discussion on alt.sex.motss.  I.e. there are no mechanisms.

Rob
-- 
UUCP:   ...!mcsun!uknet!warwick!cudcv	PHONE:  +44 203 523037
JANET:  cudcv@uk.ac.warwick             INET:   cudcv@warwick.ac.uk
Rob McMahon, Computing Services, Warwick University, Coventry CV4 7AL, England
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: rsnyder@fergie.dnet.ge.com (Bob Snyder)
Subject: Re: Um, okay, I did it.
Organization: GE Aerospace, Advanced Technology Labs, Moorestown, NJ
	<1992Apr12.044746.15954@CS.ORST.EDU> <73751@netnews.upenn.edu>
	<f1l+d_A@engin.umich.edu>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 04:54:52 GMT

>>>>> In article <f1l+d_A@engin.umich.edu>, sander@engin.umich.edu
>>>>> (Scott D Anderson) writes:

Scott> One reason to make it r.g.m.social instead of Tiny... others:
Scott> a) as yduJ pointed out, Tiny is archaic and doesnt really describe
Scott> the content of so-called 'tiny' posts any longer.

Tiny may be a archaic term, but it is the one I see in most common usage...

Scott> b) I am a firm believer that splitting along lines of server code is
Scott> a Bad Idea (tm) as soon you will get every single little derivative
Scott> clamoring for its own group (cf. the diku discussion. I really have seen
Scott> only a few rabid diku posts, mostly of the nature 'diku rules doodz!'.
Scott> none of which are really distinguishable from any other 'adventure' type
Scott> posts.) I believe that the lines of the split should be along the
Scott> nature of the postings, not the server code behind the players who post.

I disagree with this.  I think that if you do not split on server
code, you will simply end up with people talking through each other to
talk to others using the same server, which is what I was hoping to
avoid.

I also disagree with the dumping of all "adventure" games into one
lump catagory.  I think this is a bad idea.  LP, Diku, Aber, and so on
have few common connections to work from.  If Diku (or any other mud
variant) has the hundred voters and 2/3 majority required to make
their own group, more power to them.

Scott> d) If people insist on using server code as the distinction for the
Scott> split, then consider how very different the various derivatives have
Scott> become lately... One glaring example is MOO. MOO is object oriented,
Scott> and the entire server is coded mainly in MOO-code, with only the
Scott> very basic stuff being done by the actual C program.

But most of the Tiny derivatives haven't strayed that far from a
common mean.  Those that do and have enough supporters can get their
own group.

Scott> So here's my view of How It Should Be:

Scott> rec.games.mud.announce (moderated)

Agreed.  Even if nothing else seems acceptable to the majority, I
would like to see this go through.

Scott> rec.games.mud.social
Scott> rec.games.mud.adventure (or .rpg) to accomodate the diku players who
Scott>    want their own non-social group, and to allow discussions about
Scott>    rpg things in general regardless of server type

Based from the success of rec.games.mud.lp, I would still recommend
splitting along server code lines.  If LP'ers were pushed into a
rec.games.mud.adventure, I think it would drown everyone else out in
"LP noise."
--
Bob Snyder          rsnyder@fergie.dnet.ge.com, or rsnyder@atl.dnet.ge.com
Computing Services  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ if it bounces, try ^^^^^^^^
GE Aerospace, Advanced Technology Labs  (609) 866-6672 FX: (609) 866-6397
From: ersys!vchan@agchem.redwater.iol.ca (Victor Chan)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: The rec.arts.{comics.}manga wars continue
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 00:33:38 MDT
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems, Edmonton, AB, Canada

Put my vote down for 'rec.arts.manga'.  Manga is synonymous with comics 
and vice-versa but I believe that rationale for separating Japanese 
comics is because of the widespread following of _Japanese_ comics and a 
desire to discuss this topic in a separate (albeit related by way of 
group name) newsgroup.  This is similar to the state or rec.arts.anime 
and rec.arts.animation.  They both involve forms of animation but since 
the following for anime is quite high for anime, it is a distinct group.

Were Manga to be combined with the rec.arts.comic group, I'm sure people 
would either be frustrated by the amount of manga postings that they 
might not understand or care about.  Similarily to those that just want 
to read manga postings and nothing about  (American) comics.

Rec.arts.manga is just a way of recognizing the fact that American comics 
are not the rule (not necessarily an exception either).  I don't really 
follow rec.arts.comics but is there really a HIGH volume of foreign 
comics discussion.  I don't imagine so (I COULD be wrong).  But because 
of the growing popularity of manga, it should be given a chance to obtain 
it's own readership and own distinct group.  Point made.

Just my 2 Yen worth.  You're welcome to flame me, but don't do it over 
the net.  Buster shield!....

<< Unless it's local - please don't e-mail above address. Gomen nasai. >>
<< Our system's down and it can't get up! Please e-mail to below only! >>
* Victor Chan - Secretary of the *          userBAKA@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca
*  Banzai Anime Klub of Alberta  *          userV4D0@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca
From: jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Organization:  One of these days.
Subject: Re: No New Enya News Group!!
	<1992Apr7.015308.5737@bsu-ucs.uucp>
	<1992Apr7.232621.7778@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>
	<1992Apr8.211041.5634@resonex.com>
Reply-To: jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca
X-Software: HERMES GUS 1.00 Rev. Jan 16 1992
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 11:58:06 -0600

In <1992Apr10.034723.20398@chinacat.unicom.com>, Chip Rosenthal writes:

>...... where on Altnet any tripe and drivel can get
>through.  (existence proof:  John Palmer)
>
    I know this isn't how you meant it, but the way I read this, I 
think the time has come to post an RFD for rmgrouping John Palmer.
While we're at it, let's rmgroup Bruce Becker, too. 
;-)


-- 
       John Henders      jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca
    I think your "evolutionary scale" needs an adjustment.  Either 
      that, or you've got your thumb on it. -> (lefty@apple.com)
From: geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:19:58 GMT
Reply-To: geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU
Organization: Amos Tuck School

In <44476@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang) writes:

>>Suggestion: try posting in rec.arts.comics with the keyword "MANGA: " at the
>>beginning of the subject line for a month or two, and we'll see how the
>>traffic stacks up to everything else there.

>     Excellent suggestion, bad timing.  summer vacation is coming and
>many net readers will be GONE (in the U.S. anyway).

OK, extend the test period through the summer.
By your logic we should postpone the vote as well since 'most of the
readers' who might want to vote will be GONE.
UseNet is not all students, there are a few of us out here who work for a
living every weekday, every week, all year. I'm not going anywhere for the
whole summer.

-Geoff
--
geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU  -  Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business
"...soon hip-hop won't be so nice.  No Ice Cube, just Vanilla Ice."
			-Ice Cube
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.games.frp.misc ( was: rec.arts.frp.misc)
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:05:21 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

imcc@cs.strath.ac.uk (Iain McCord) writes:


>  It seems, from the RFD on soc.personals.*, that the 'powers that be' will
>allow the passing of a vote to be ignored if other groups on the same ballot
>fail. 
>  I suggest that a rename of r.g.f to r.g.f.misc be added to the ballot and
>be conditional on the passing of at least 2 other groups.

    Damnit! I knew this kind of thing was going to start happening.
Conditional votes are a really bad thing, and I would really like to see
any attempt to use them fail dismally.

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | Common Taxpayer Q&A: Q. If I use the 1040 how
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   | do I indicate my preference for the Elvis stamp?
 Mac Database Developer     | A. You write THIN ELVIS or FAT ELVIS in the box
 Dartmouth Medical School   | "Spouse's Social Security #." -Dave Barry
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: bob@wheaton.edu (boB)
Subject: Re: RFD:  comp.sys.novell reorganization
Organization: Wheaton College
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 04:15:06 GMT

In article <6362@lib.tmc.edu> jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>
>Overall, I have no problems with the proposal. I would, however, like to see
>the .2x and .3x groups named something a little clearer...how about .version2
>and .version3?

i think it's a great idea.  i also agree on the name, however i don't like
.versionX

how about .286 & .386 or .v286 .v386 or .ver2x .ver3x or something to that
effect.  .versionX is too verbose and says about as much as .2x & .3x.  i do
think a slightly more verbose name is in order.

boB

-- 
boB Hollinger           <------------------------------------->
Wheaton College         /        boB@david.wheaton.edu        \  Disclaimer:
CPO #1343               >      uunet!tellab5!wheaton!boB      <
Wheaton, Il  60187-5593 \_____________________________________/ I didn't do it!