HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 06:56:46 -0400 
From: "David M. Pahnos" <dp0q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Patches and retcons /LSH
	<1992Aug22.175135.7711@midway.uchicago.edu>

> Much of the criticism of
>the Giffen/Bierbaums LSH is concerned with the fact that their retcons
>are, well, "patchy"-- not well thought out, and contradicting previous
>facts, if only implicitly...Technically, it was indeed *intended* to be
a 'classic' retcon.  The
>problem is that the change doesn't jibe with the way the "lightning
>rod resurrection scene" was depicted in the original comic... Nor does
it synch up well with the
>history, characterization, etc., since then...

No one has been able up to this point to prove to me that it indeed is a
patchy retcon.  People keep saying this, and I have yet to see any
point-by-point analysis.  I agree that T&M are doing a lot of useless
retconning and patching (I tend to see a trend back to differentiating
between these two terms BTW), and that the patch of the 'soul of
antares' is inane (especially the Kid Quantum part) in addition.  Moore
is a master at seamless retconning (even seemingly seamless),  and
elements of that can also be seen in Watchman, if you keep in mind that
they were all directly based on Charlton characters (Cpt. Atom - Dr.
Manhatten, etc.). 
 A good parallel is practiced in law:  word vs spirit (literal vs
intent).  If the flavor and original intention and concept is retained,
with minor details suffering editing, then it is indeed a retcon.  If
the 'new history' of it is overwhelming to the intent, then it is indeed
a patch.  
Wonder Woman, Superman and Batman would be all versions of 'quilts.' 
The original concepts had been so barnacled that the ship would not
float, so bits and pieces were saved to create something as close to the
original concept as possible, updated for the 'times' .  Superman became
the last son of Krypton again, WW became the feminist ambassador as
intended, and Batman became the epitome of the obsessed pious vigilante.
 The Hawkworld graphic novel series was a pretty seamless quilt.  It
became frayed around the edges when it became a modern-day debut, as
opposed to Hawman Year One (and the drug use/Shayera II parts were the
only patchy aspects of it before then).  Aquaman was born without a
'con' or ship to barnacle in the first place, so all the consequent
origins (and it looks we are getting another one from PAD soon) are both
patchy and non-patchy.  The hinted explanantion that the five religions
of Atlantis are responsible (as different myths attached to a messiah
with a shadowed past) for the patchyness is a good example of retcon too.

I'll agree that the difference is subject to subjectivity, but more
objectivity could be applied to examples than sometimes is.

michael j pastor iii
guest on davids account
From: hcheng@Auspex.COM (Howard Cheng)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Best and Worst Villain Names
Date: 14 Aug 92 00:28:05 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara

In article <1992Aug13.172038.26084@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> mac7@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael A. Chary) writes:
>
>
>What are the best names of villains in comics?
>What are the worst?  Five choices of each from MHO.
>

There's a whole list of great hero names in the back of DOOM FORCE #1. Some
examples:
	The Crying Boy (tm)
	Shasta, the Living Mountain (tm)
	Toejam (tm)
	TM (tm)
	Lock (tm) and Load (tm)
	Pinata (tm)

I can't remember them at this time... ah well.

Also along the lines of best names:
	Fortress Lad
	Ambush Bug
	Stone Boy

Speaking of Stone Boy, I was at a convention a long time ago and one of the
speakers on a panel was George Perez, when he was working on LSH. And, as
mysterious as he always was, he answered almost all the questions put to him
with, "You'll find out." Anyway, at one point in the conference, this group
of people stand up all at once, and shout in unison, "STONE BOY--DON'T TAKE
HIM FOR GRANTED!"

It was great.

h.
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Fox's Fall Animation--Batman and X-men
Date: 17 Aug 92 23:01:45 GMT
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

crisper@deeptht.armory.com (Crisper Than Thou) writes:
>News from the San Diego Comicon on the animated BATMAN:
>...
>I could ramble for pages but suffice it to say that I'm really impressed.


Hey, with Tiny Toons staff working on it, it has to be good!
-- 
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw parties.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jjonsson@alexandria.lib.utah.edu
Subject: Re: Elfquest: New Blood
Organization: Marriott Library, University of Utah
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 01:50:13 GMT

In article <-79m#q.dani@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:

>I picked up a copy of Elfquest--New Blood in San Diego, and was pleasantly
>surprised.  The worry, of course, was that it would be a forum for printing
>trash set in the Elfquest universe, just another way to milk Elfquest fans.
>In fact, although the different artists brought vastly different styles to
>the comic, the stories were uniformly enjoyable and true to the spirit of
>the original (albeit with a stronger tendency to be silly).  If you (still)
>like Elfquest, you'll want to read this.

>-----
>Dani Zweig
>dani@netcom.com

I was talking to Barry Blair about his recent involvement with Warp graphics,
and he was saying that people would come to him at cons and say: "Oh, I 
couldn't read Elflord, cause I'm a fan of Elfquest," and "Oh, I only read 
Elflord, Elfquest sucks." And so he and Richard Pini were talking, and they 
both decided that it was foolish of their fans to be divided. If someone 
likes Pini's work they shouldn't dismiss Blair's or vice-versa. So, Blair 
did one of the stories in the Elfquest: New Blood book, I think it's called "
Descent into Darkness" or something similar. 
	Oh, and if anyone's sad that Blair finally got away from Malibu, He 
and EiWin Mark are back at work, putting out the Night Wynd titles, if your 
comic store isn't carrying them, ask them to order them. The Night Wynd 
books are just as good as anything Aircel ever put out.
	


Jeff Jonsson
Marriott Library System Support, University of Utah.
==============================================================================
--"It's the sound of the secret--  jjonsson@alexandria.lib.utah.edu
-- machinery at the center of  --  jjonsson@utahlib.bitnet
-- the world." -Cliff Steele   --  "You talkin' to me?"
From: sl859@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: The Care and Feeding of Comics
Date: 14 Aug 92 09:56:09 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

I personally like to use bags for the same purposes expressed here.  
I mean I really would not want to loose some issues, and the bags have
saved some comics.  What bugs me is when I go to the comic shop to get
my one copy of this and that like a faithful comic reader, and some
dweeb fanboy has bought 10000 copies of my comic and I can't get a single
copy because of it!  And then they but those BACKERBOARDS to make them 
Extra Specials.  And they never want you to read them, cuz the oils from 
your hand and all...  I think MST3K has every right to say whatever, 
I don't take anything from that show seriously, and personally find it
REALLY funny.  But BEWARE! There are those Net-Whackos out there that 
really go psycho if you insinuate that reality might flow differently 
then how they would dictate!  
							wReam...
P.S.  If all the world is a Stage, I think I just fell down a
trapdoor on it!
From: steppe@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Top Changwatchai)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Comics care
Date: 21 Aug 92 06:57:21 GMT

Whoops, I tried to send a message to Montague_Keven@Tandem.com, but the mailer
couldn't find him.  Anyway, it occurred to me others might be able to answer
my question:

In article <1992Aug11.175220.7989@tandem.com< you write:
<The shiny side should face the comic.  A little more info on boards: there are
<(1) "temp" boards, which are brown w/a white spraycoating of an acid-resistant
<buffer on one side; (2) boards labeled "acid-free at time of manufacture," which
<are white on both sides, but glossy white on one, and (3) Acid-Free boards.  
<These last are, as far as I know, only made by Bill Cole, and are the most
<expensive of the lot.  You'll have to decide how much protection you want to
<give your individual comics.  In general, the level of protection goes up from
<(1) to (3).  This is getting too long, so email me if you want more info.
<
<<      5.  Any other storage tips that someone naive enough to ask the above
<< questions should know? :)
<
<Yes. . .there is a compromise between bags and mylars, namely "mylites."  Again,
<Bill Cole is the only one who makes these (I wonder why no one tries to make a
<run at this guy?), they are just thinner versions of mylars.  Supposedly, they
<never break down, whereas the polyeth and polypros definitely do, in anywhere
<from 3 - 5 years.
<Come to think of it, there is a compromise between Cole's acid-free boards and
<the "temp" boards, too.  They're called "half time-x-tenders," or somesuch.
<Apparantly, they're thinner versions of his acid free boards, at a fraction of
<the cost.  I plan to check these out in San Diego, this weekend.  If they're 
<all he says, I plan to use them exclusively.
<
<Kevvy Kev,
<Daring someone to call him anal retentive

Hmmmm, I bag and back all of my comics, but I don't ever intend on selling any
of them; I just enjoy reading comics that are in good condition.  I was
curious, though:  I use polyethylene bags and probably type (2) backing boards
(5 cents per individual bag, 10 cents per individual board).  You mentioned
that the bags break down, and implied that the boards would yellow (acid
content); how severe is this damage?  If I want my collection to last for a
good while (at least until I grow up), should I be using acid-free boards and
mylar bags?  Any suggestions as to sources (who is Bill Cole)?  How about cost?

Thanks for your time,

Top
 


-- 
steppe@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
"I'm gonna live forever or die trying."
From: lsmith@deci.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: San Diego Comic Con news
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:45:30 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Little Squids of the Poor

In article <1992Aug21.131035.25665@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> tyg@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Tom Galloway) writes:

>DC and Image are in negotiations to do intercompany crossovers. No, I'm not
>making this up, and yes, a common joke at the con was that the correct way to
>do this would be for DC to provide the writing and Image the art. No further
>word; rumor had it that this came about over drinks early in the con, making
>me wonder where in San Diego one could obtain the Everclear Tang that must
>have been being drunk.

The rumor I've heard is that one proposed crossover is Batman meets Prawn.
(OK, ok, Spawn.) The rumor runs that McArtist wanted to do a Prawn-Spiderman
(Sorry. Spawn.) crossover, but that Marvel told him to take a hike. The 
Spawn-Batman (Hey, I got it right!) crossover should be considered a form 
of retribution. Considering the success DC has had with various Batcrossovers,
this may work out well for them.

Now can anyone tell me what the Prawnmobile was?
--
 Lance "The Weasel" Smith  | "He which brings no hustle to this game
    (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)    |  Let him depart; his waivers will be cleared,
  There were Giants in the |  And dollars of contract put into his wallet:
     Stick in those days   |  We would not play in that man's company"  Hrbek V
From: lsmith@atto.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Gaiman's and DC's plans
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:36:25 GMT
Organization: The Little Squids of the Poor

In <_c0mstm.dani@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:

>lsmith@myria.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith):
>>>Yes, DC really is doubling the number of titles it's offering, and turning 
>>>every viable title it carries into a constellation of four or five titles.  

>>Hmmm, so Sandman becomes:
>>
>>Sandman 
>>Death           Who dies this month?
>>Desire          "See this, little boy? It's an X-Force #1. You want it!"
>>Delirium        Issue #1 will be a Flaming Carrot cross-over.
>>Destruction     And you thought Lobo was nasty.

>Optimist.  Do you remember Wesley Dodds? 

Evil miscreant! (Sorry, I always wanted to use that in a post.)

Anyway, the latest Comic Shop News (#270) is especially well-timed for this
for this thread. There's an interview with Neil Gaiman and Jill Thompson.
Towards the end of the interview Neil is talking about what his plans for
Sandman are at the moment. (His plans seem to keep changing.) 

After Neil wraps up the Sandman title, in about three years, he says he would
like to do a set of stories for each of the Endless. He suggests maybe a
Destiny prestige book, a three issue Delirium miniseries, a 12 issue Desire
miniseries and a Despair one-shot, but adds that he really doesn't have
any formal plans at this point. 

He also says that he's like to do stories from before Sandman #1. (Sandman #0?)
Things like where he got the mask when he was captured and why he was exhausted.
Dave McKean also has expressed interest in a series of stories that explore
different myths and legends, using Morpheus as the focal point. This sounds
like an interesting idea.

So pick up a copy of the CSN, 'cause like it's free and it is an interesting
interview.
--
 Lance "The Weasel" Smith  | "He which brings no hustle to this game
    (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)    |  Let him depart; his waivers will be cleared,
  There were Giants in the |  And dollars of contract put into his wallet:
     Stick in those days   |  We would not play in that man's company"  Hrbek V
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Conty-kun)
Subject: Re: CEREBUS: M&D 10 (spoilers)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 03:05:28 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.010554.20416@athena.mit.edu>, dml@athena.mit.edu (David M LaMacchia) writes:
> In article <1992Aug14.211920.21179@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Conty-kun) writes:
> 
[re: the McGrew brothers]
> And to be quoted as someone who takes Dave too seriously: does anyone know
> any possible significance to the 89-day probation term?  

That Drew still can't count?  :-)

> Then again, one might think that Posey is the type of person who would be 
> befriended by Oscar, anyway (he's a nice person, as Rick was.  Well, kind of).

Nice, clueless, and harmless.  Hmm.
-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			The Incredible Man-with-no-Life
			      jester@ihlpl.att.com
		    Disclaimer: You're not dealing with AT&T
From: djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: LSH: New version number wanted
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:24:26 GMT
Reply-To: djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <1992Aug20.224103.1@fnalo.fnal.gov> morrow@fnalo.fnal.gov (Dan Elmoe) writes:
 
>	Validus's origin was hardly a retcon, considering that he had never had
>an origin prior to v2 ann 3.  And Laurel Kent is tied into the overall Superman
>retcon that was forced upon the Legion.

Actually, in the *ORIGINAL* intended meaning of the term "retcon," this is a
perfect example of one.  "Retcon" -- short for "retroactive continuity" -- was
coined to refer to "previously unrevealed" history of a character which was, if 
not consistent, at least not wildly inconsistent with the history we already 
know.  The master of this, of course, was Alan Moore, whose retcon of SWAMP
THING from a guy who'd been turned into a muck monster to a plant elemental
based around a dead guy, and all the paraphernalia that went with it, was a
masterpiece indeed.  An important detail to note is that Moore did this without
ever invalidating what had gone before.  Ditto for Moore's MIRACLEMAN:  allowing
for the slight differences for copyright reasons, he took the character of
Captain Marvel and (a) radically rearranged his origin, (b) explained where
he'd been since the fifties, and (c) made him a much more serious sort of a
charcter all without (d) invalidating any of the previous stories (except, of
course, in the peculiar sense that they'd all been a dream.  Or had they?).

Laurel Kent (who had never actually been stated to be a descendant of Clark)
was a valid retcon in this sense; the Validus origin was a simply brilliant
retcon.

The problem is when you start making changes that are *NOT* consistent with
existing continuity, especially when rabid types like LSH fans are involved.
"Superboy never existed!" "Yes he did!" are *NOT* retcons in the original sense
of the word; they're continuity patches, kludges, fuck-ups and -overs.  "Garth
was actually Proty!" is another example.

Unfortunately, the term "retcon" has evolved to mean both categories, and we
now need a new term to refer *specifically* to the classic sort of "retcon"
represented by the Validus origin. . .


		My baby is a Martian,
		What can I do?
		I'm in love with a giant insect,
		I got them Exoskeletal Blues
			-- Visual Purple

Dan'l Danehy-Oakes, Net.Roach
My opinions do NOT represent Pacific Bell,
Professional Development, or anyone else.
But I'm willing to share.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: scs@lokkur.dexter.mi.us (Steve Simmons)
Subject: SANDMAN -- Color differences in TBP vs. SOTM original?
Organization: Inland Sea
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 04:17:17 GMT

When reading the "Seasons of the Mist" TPB, I noticed something that
I'd missed in the original issues.  When Lucifer is sitting in the
lawnchair, he's bleeding.  Tonight I happened to open the original
series, part 7 (SANDMAN #28) and noticed there was no blood (pg 18,
first and last panel).  At first I thought it was a printing error,
but panels 1 and 2 on pg 22 of the same issue have missing blood
in panel 1 but the blood present in panel 2.

This can't be a printing error.  Looking further, it seems that
they don't show any character actually bleeding.  Blood may be
coming off a whip, but the person struck doesn't bleed.  This is
really odd.  Any ideas?
-- 
 "Voodoun is a very interesting religion for the whole family, even those
  members of it who are dead."
		-- "Good Omens", by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: rory@bluemoon.rn.com (Rory McIntyre)
Subject: BIG NUMBERS
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 09:58:51 EDT

Speaking of _Big Numbers_, I have been trying for who knows how long
to get a copy of BN #2, and everyone in this burg has failed me miserably.
I would appreciate it greatly if someone out there can point me in the 
right direction so I can (finally) purchase this.  Anyone have an extra 
copy or know a person or shop that does?  Thank you, thank you, thank you.
(hoping to get sympathy points for groveling).
Rory (rory@bluemoon.rn.com)

 This is from
     rory@bluemoon.rn.com
who doesn't have his (or her) own obnoxious signature yet
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: lsmith@mega.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Subject: Re: DC's plans
Organization: The Little Squids of the Poor
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 23:14:02 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.163038.1993@news.nd.edu> mkelly@happy.helios.nd.edu (michael kelly) writes:
> lsmith@myria.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith) writes:
>>In <k79mqr#.dani@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>>
>>>                 yEs, DC really is doubling the number of titles it's
>>>offering, and turning every viable title it carries into a constellation
>>>of four or five titles.  
>>
>>Hmmm, so Sandman becomes:
>>
>>Sandman 
>>Death           Who dies this month?
>
> Maybe a Suicide Squid crossover?

Oh I like this! Squiddy is constantly trying to "get a date."

Death: "For the last time, I'm not taking you until I get a black SS T-shirt!
        And stop playing with my goldfish!" 

--
 Lance "The Weasel" Smith  | "He which brings no hustle to this game
    (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)    |  Let him depart; his waivers will be cleared,
  There were Giants in the |  And dollars of contract put into his wallet:
     Stick in those days   |  We would not play in that man's company"  Hrbek V
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Conty-kun)
Subject: Re: Rumor:  Alan Moore at Image?
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:44:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.044030.11227@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy) writes:
> 
> Over on Comics-L, writer James Hudnall said that DC's Michael Eury 
>  may be moving to Dark Horse and Jonathan Petersen is going to Image.  
>  But the big bomb was that "Alan Moore will be doing a superhero book
>  for Image (yet to be signed)."

Rule #1 of net.rumors:  "if it smells like bullshit, it probably is".
	And this one flies in the face of everything Moore has said
	and done until the last couple of years.
-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			The Incredible Man-with-no-Life
			      jester@ihlpl.att.com
		    Disclaimer: You're not dealing with AT&T
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jcowling@masque.UVic.CA (Scowling Jim Cowling)
Subject: Re: rec.arts.comics.image?
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 03:03:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.185715.24942@cs.unca.edu> mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes:
>Is there enough interest in rec.arts.comics.image to go through
>the motions of CFD,RFD, and so on?
>
>I can't be the only one who likes them!

You might be.

-------
Scowling Jim Cowling
Creative Writing Department, University of Victoria (opinions disassociated)
"Do I contradict myself?  Very well then I contradict myself.   
(I am large, I contain multitudes)." -- The Waltster
-------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: cwelsh@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Craig Welsh  8823239)
Subject: grendel
Keywords: Interesting, more info
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Distribution: rec.arts.comics.misc.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:45:36 GMT

Just had the opetunity to read Grendel: War Child #1 and I thought it
was very interesting. Of course, I've never read the series before in my
entire life, but I still like it (and that Bisely cover. oooohh).

Anyway, here's a loaded question for you all out there. Could someone
give a BRIEF summary of the series so I can better understand what is
happening. I can't find any issues around here yet and don't have any
money left over anyway (see my posting on marketplace). Is there a TPB
out reprinting the old stuff?

Thanks in advance. If you don't want to clutter up the net you can email
me at....
 
*************************************************************************
* Craig Welsh                  *    "I'm a few bricks short of a       *
*                              *     load, but a full load always      *
* cwelsh@morgan.ucs.mun.ca     *     hurt my back."                    *
*                              *     "Crazy" - Barenaked Ladies        *
************************************************************************
* "Homeboy from Hell." Screw that. I'm the Waiter from Hell.           *
*  You figure out which is scarier.                                    *
************************************************************************
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: The Care and Feeding of Comics
Date: 17 Aug 92 13:26:13 GMT
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA

cwagner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Christian Wagner) writes:
>Who else has a complete run (or just a load of issues) of a particular title
>that will never be worth a damn thing (at least from a monetary standpoint),
>but that you've kept anyway?

Me!  Doc Savage (all comic runs from three companies), Kamandi, Tick
(early issues are worth a bit, but these are reprints).  Plus a bunch
of other stuff.  My later Conans aren't likely to be worth much,
though my #1's seem to have aquired value.  But I don't collect to
make money, I collect because I like the comics I'm collecting.
Imagine my surprise at finding out what my Pacific Comic Groo's were
worth. 
-- 
Nourish a waif and it will pick out your eyes.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc