HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hens@snipe.cray.com (Tom Stephens)
Subject: Re: yakima vs thule opinions wanted
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 28 Jul 92 10:37:10 CDT


In article <1992Jul28.144323.6915@tamsun.tamu.edu>, sean@cs.tamu.edu (Sean Graves) writes:
> In article <12lm7x+.tomk@netcom.com> tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
> >I have been watching this thread about bike racks.
> >
> >Cartop racks are expensive and noisey. They're OK for transporting
> >bikes if you don't have any other way, but leaving the
> >rack on the roof lowers your gas mileage and increases the
> >interior noise level appreciably. 
> 
> Yes, they are expensive - very little of quality is not expensive.
> I don't understand what you are arguing here.
> Do you suggest that we should disassemble our bikes and carry them inside
> the car?  Build a trailer for them?  What do you mean "if you don't have any
> other way"?  What way do YOU have?   Surely you are not suggesting that
> a trunk mounted rack is better.  I saw a lot of roof racks in the TdF,
> and I'm sure those folks could carry bikes any way they choose.
> 
> Noisy?  Probably depends on the car and the location you have the rack.
> On my Eclipse, the rack is mounted on the hatch, and there is very little
> added noise.
> >
> >But more importantly; you should NEVER leave a bike on these
> >racks, locked or otherwise. Some of the mounting towers are
> >simply plastic and others are aluminum. It is a simple and
> >fast matter to saw them off quietly as many people in the past 
> >have discovered to their dismay.
> >
> 
> Life is full of risks.  Someone can take a chainsaw to the front door of
> my house, get inside and steal my bike if they want.  I don't think that it
> is productive to worry about it.
> 
> >Bike racks are made to transport bikes, not to safely store them.
> 
> Who suggested otherwise?  
> 
> --
> Sean
> sean@cs.tamu.edu


Yea Sean!!  I have a trunk mount rack and wish I would have bought a cartop.  They are significantly
more expensive, but that is the price you pay.  I couldn't tell you about the noise.  It seems 
that if it is really bad, turn up the radio.
--
---------------------------------
Tom Stephens
CCN,  Chippewa Falls
Cray Research Inc.  hens@cray.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jedenney@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu (Jason E Denney)
Subject: Re: HIKING BOOT SUGGESTIONS??
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 04:08:48 GMT

klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee) writes:
>|> 	4)  Hi-Tecs.  S

>I had a pair of their "Sierra Light" boots.  These are ultralights, similar
>to the Merrel Light Travelers.  I think the Merrels are much better and cost
>about the same.  My Hi-Tecs started falling apart after a year or so of day
>hikes.  After a similar period, the Merrels are still going strong.

>Note:  the above comments are personal experiences with specific models.
>These may or may not generalize to other users or other models from the same
>brands.

Same problem here.  I had a light pair start coming apart at the seams after a
2 week trek, but they replaced them; no questions asked.  I haven't had any
problem with the new pair as of yet tho.


.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Jason E Denney / Univ of Okla     _/\_ RTB                                  |
| jedenney@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu <RUSH>    "A witty saying proves nothing." |
| #include <stddisclaimer.h>        |/\| '92                       --Voltaire |
`-----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
From: ed@titipu.meta.com (Edward Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: MSR Whisperlite
Date: 22 Jul 92 02:22:38 GMT
Reply-To: ed@titipu.meta.com (Edward Reid)
Organization: Accuracy, Ltd.
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v0

ssnyder@sunai.er.usgs.gov (Steve Snyder) writes:
> paul@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Anderson) writes:
> >Zippo lighter. Can I use White Gas (Coleman fuel) in it? What kind of fuel
> >are lighters supposed to use?
> >
> Butane! I would not recommend putting White Gas into a butane lighter, 

Well, half right.  Gasoline in a lighter would indeed yield an exciting
fireball!  And disposable lighters use butane.  But refillable lighters like a
Zippo can't use butane because, as Steve notes, it's a gas under normal
conditions, and you couldn't pour it into the lighter.  So buy lighter fluid
(no, NOT charcoal lighter).  It comes in small cans; buy it where you bought
the lighter if you can't find it elsewhere.  Oh, got the lighter used?  Try
supermarkets, drugstores, tobacconists.  I don't know what it's got in it, but
if you are just using it for lighting stoves, one can will last a long time, so
it's not worth trying to substitute.

Edward Reid  (8*}>
  eel:   ed@titipu.meta.com  or  nosc.mil!titipu.meta.com!ed
  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Sporty car for canoeing???
From: derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 01:10:02 GMT
Organization: Fujitsu New Zealand

I thought that the VW beetle was on of the few cars suitable for canoeing
by virtue of it's water tight floor pan.  I believe they have annual 
races across the Rhine in these vehicles.

Alternatively there is a Landrover Factory conversion which involves 
attaching inflatable pontoons to the sides and operating a propellor
from the rear power take off.  This would allow you to run a canoe 
expedition and drive out back from the end of the river!  Not sure how
it would handle white water though.

Seriously though Mitsubishi produce a 4WD light utility vehicle ( called an 
L200 in New Zealand) which has a crew cab and load bed.  Suitable for five
adults and the canoes in the load bed.  They may have an equivalent model
for the U.S

Landrover produce a 130 inch wheel base crew cab but your chances of getting 
one in the U.S.A would be pretty slim...

Derek Tearne.


-- 
Derek Tearne  derek@icl.co.nz or derek@fivegl.co.nz --Fujitsu SDC,Auckland,NZ

My 'self aware' .signature file failed his Turing test.  
It turns out he was just a chess playing midget in a decorative box.
From: martink@homer.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (kenneth m martin)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Long Trail Information Request
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:33:50 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center

In the southern parts of the Long Trail there are quite a few shelters.
Typically there are people in them, but not up to capacity. If I am correct,
by the rules until a shelter is up to capacity you can't deny someone else 
from  using it as well.  Most of the shelters/leantoos (sp) I've been to
have capacities of 8-12 (according to GMC Long Trail Guide).

Of course if I was doing an end-to-end, I would bring a tent :-)

- km
-- 
==============================================================
Ken Martin 
martink@crd.ge.com
General Electric Corporate R&D
Expressing my opinions and not necessarily those of my employer
===============================================================
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: davide@sequent.com (Dave English)
Subject: Re: Cairns, Flags, and Fixed Wands
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 20:12:07 GMT


Question to keep the group thinking:  Are cairns in the backcountry the same
as painting the name of the rock climb at the bottom of the cliff?

I just got back from 2 weeks in Germany and Switzerland.  Over there, the
base of almost every route is marked with painted names and possibly arrows
to show the way.  Some times I was damn glad to know I was on the 5.9 route
and not the 5.12.

Seems to me this argument degenerates the same as most r.b and r.c 
other issues.  It is all a matter of degree -- one rock is OK, an
asphalt trail with handrails is not.  The truth lies between.

Soooooo, my suggestion.  "When in Rome, figure out what the Romans do
before you do anything permanent"

So when in Switzerland, I 'dogged' the bolts with the best of 'em,
and when in Yosemite I carry extra underwear for those 50 foot run-outs
on 20 year old quarter inch bolts.

Or you could stick to winter ascents.  Plodding on snow leaves no trace.  :-)


  David English          davide@sequent.COM         Unix System Programming
  (503) 578-4569        uunet!sequent!davide       Sequent Computer Systems
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:5488 rec.climbing:2531
From: unger@mitem.com (Tom Unger)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
Subject: Four season tent recomendations.
Date: 23 Jul 92 02:11:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: MITEM Corp

I'm shopping for a four season tent.  Initially I'll use it climbing
in New Zealand.  Then I'll use it for winter trips in the Cascades and
other north American ranges.  I already have a lightweight summer
tent, so am really looking for just a winter, really really bad
weather, tent.

Some of my requirements are: under 9 lbs, should be able to cook from
in my sleeping in the tent, vestibule for boots and other gear is
nice.  Doesn't have to be huge, but the ability to fit three tightly
is nice.

I've been to the local stores and generated the following list of
possibilities.  All are between 7 and 9 lbs and between $400 and $500.
I've listed them along with my impressions.  Has anyone had experience
with any of these?



Sierra Designs Tiros, 6lbs 15oz, no vestibule

    The lightest tent, but has no vestibule.  Entering or exiting
    will allow rain in.


Sierra Designs Stretch Dome with Expedition fly, 8lbs, 13oz, huge double
hoop vestibule.

    I used this on a winter trip and liked it.  Has the largest
    vestibule of any.


Walrus Moonrock, 8lbs 8oz, two small vestibule.

    Spacious with good ventilation.  Two functional entrances
    with small vestibule.  Difficult to set up.


Moss Stardome 2, 7lbs 4oz, hooped vestibule.

    Small vestibule and cramped feeling.  


North Face Oval, 7lbs 15oz?, large hooped vestibule.

    I remember someone saying something about problems with snow
    accumulation on these.  Otherwise fairly spacious with good
    sized vestibule.


Noall, 8lbs, two small vestibule.

    Made by a small tent manufacturer.  Two well though out
    entrances, good ventilation.  Small vestibule but should be
    able to cook from the door.


The VE-24 and 25 were too heavy and large.  I didn't much consider Wild
Country tents, though they were recommended as having good construction.
I mostly didn't like their entrances.

Larger size does not necessarily mean heavier.  The Walrus and the NF
Oval take a lot of real estate to set up, which may be a disadvantage.
The Noall, is considerable smaller (but not much lighter?).

Comments?

Tom Unger.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Backcountry Improvisations (Was: Swiss Army Knife)
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 23:05:24 GMT

In article <Jul17.155244.46235@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> 
trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>>What I really need to add to my box of truck-junk is a hand winch.

I did some research and the real problems are typically:
	1) lack of good anchors
	2) insufficient cable
Best not to get into situations where you need these.

In article <1992Jul21.041545.3997@fivegl.co.nz> derek@fivegl.co.nz
(Derek Tearne) writes:
>Like Eugene said it's not the tool itself but the improvisations you use 
>it for which tell in the end.  
>
>On that note has anyone any good stories of impressive/lifesaving 
>improvisations esp. using a piece of string and the thing for getting 
>girl guides out of boy scouts hooves.

The series Saturday Night Live had a great skit which had me rolling on the
floor.  Kevin Neilland (sp) and Victoria Jackson are a pair stranded years
on a deserted island (South Pacific).  It is their anniversary.  Kevin
presents Victoria with three gifts: all nice natural items: a beautiful
shell, etc.  Victoria after the presentation of the first gift hands Kevin
a Swiss watch.  Where did you get this?
	I made it.
	Well, I first mined the ore, constructed a furnace, poured and
	shaped the metal, etc.
After the second gift, she gives some other technological marvel and the
same long process of construction.
Kevin is embarassed.  Victoria decides not to give the third gift (she built
a car from scratch).

170 posts?  On things like sandals?  No way am I going to read all those.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Dutch Ovens in the backcountry
Keywords: cookbooks, favorite recipes, and tips
Date: 21 Jul 92 23:25:19 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Jul21.185924.7119@pbhyg.PacBell.COM> smmyers@PacBell.COM (... .. ...) writes:
|In article <1992Jul20.224125.24856@src.dec.com> reimer@src.dec.com (Dean Reimer) writes:
|>I use to bury the dutch oven under the fire before I started it.  You can bake
|>apple pies, cakes, ect.

One of the best backcountry meals I've ever had was done through the use
of an "oven" this guy made.  We were sitting around camp after a long day
of stream fishing and this guy grabs a cook pot and, without a word walks
away from camp.  A little while later he came back with the pot full of
ripe blackberries.  The he went off in a different direction with his "Rambo
knife" and came back with a handful of "green" sticks.  He wrapped the sticks
with aluminum foil, tied them together to form a shelf and cover and then 
covered the whole thing with aluminum foil and pushed it up near the fire.  
Then he mixed up some bisquick and poured it and the berries in a shallow
pan.  He put the pan in the "oven" and after 10 minutes or so he had a
cobbler with a golden brown crust.  We didn't say a word the whole time the
was doing this.  We just watched and when we saw the results we just looked
at each other and grabbed a cookpot and headed down to the berry bush.  Yummm.

I've also made an oven by taking two identical folding backpack grills and put 
one on top of the other and then covered the whole thing with aluminum foil.
Get one of those little six-packs of biscuits and put them in a pan and put it
in the oven.  After a few minutes they turn a golden brown.    

Has anyone else used "butter buds" for their backcountry butter?

Is anyone getting hungry?
|
|     Don't forget Backcountry Pizza.  Mmmmmm.
|
Does the Domino's "Delivered in 30 minutes or it's Free" guarentee still
apply in the backcountry?

-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: whitley@mksol.dseg.ti.com (harlon whitley 952-2342)
Subject: Re: MSR Whisperlite
Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:58:23 GMT

I believe a Zippo uses lighter fluid and not Butane.  They are
not meant to be disposable, but as flammable as white gas is
I would not use it.

No FLAME intended :>
From: edb@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Ed Beshore)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:06:13 GMT
Subject: Re: WhisperLite
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Greeley, CO
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

I have had a Whisperlite for several years now.  I leave the pump head
on, but release the pressure after each use.  The prospect of a 
pressurized bottle of white gas developing a leak in my pack makes
it a worthwhile precaution.

Ed Beshore
HP Greeley Storage Division
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: fholtsberry@oavax.csuchico.edu (Fran Holtsberry)
Subject: Dutch oven/outdoor cooking
Organization: California State University, Chico
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:48:42 GMT

I thought I posted this earlier, but haven't seen it, so I'll try again.
-------------------------
Roughing It Easy --was written by Diane Thomas and published by Brigham 
Young University Press. I don't think it is still in print. But it is my 
favorite source for all types of camp-out cooking.

Dutch oven cooking is my favorite! I have taught  DO cooking for many 
years to groups as young as fourth grade, with great success. 

Last year several of us toted two 12" aluminum models into the Caribu 
Wilderness area to feed some hungary boy scouts who had been eating 
dehydrated stuff for 5 days. The DOs weren't as heavy as the food it took 
to feed 20 guys. Our menu included DO stew, and Pineapple UpSideDown cake. 
We also used the pot lids as griddles to cook the fish we caught.

I have also taught a workshop annually at the REI in Sacramento for the 
past five years. My beginners cook:

Biscuits (GREAT recipe in Roughing It Easy)
Sourdough Corn Bread (somehow sourdough and dutch ovens go together)
Pineapple UpSideDown Cake
Stew (actually, I cook the stew in an old Coleman cooler on the drive to 
Sac)

I am working on a camp cooking book...It takes a little different 
approach. Since I have worked with large groups of beginners, I have 
developed recipes starting with ingredient preparation at home, and 
including simple instructions on how to cook and clean up.

I like to use briquettes with beginners, as it is easier to regulate the 
heat.  For example, to get a temp good for baking cookies and cakes, 
mature briquettes placed 2" apart above and below the oven will cook a 
cake in 25-30 min.

I have babbled on long enough, but I would be glad to share some tips if 
you are interested.

Fran Holtsberry
Fran_holtsberry@macgate.csuchico.edu

Fran Holtsberry,
Fran_holtsberry@macgate.csuchico.edu

-_-Good design is not a default setting-_-
From: roat@rrc.chevron.com (Suzanne Roat,Chevron,(510)242-5313)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Public perceptions.
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:54:32 GMT
Reply-To: roat@rrc.chevron.com
Organization: Chevron, Richmond, California

While living in Knoxville, Tennessee several years ago, the local radio station did a news bit on tourist season in and around the Great Smoky Mountain National Park.  One lady from Ohio they interviewed responded to a question with "Oh I love going to the mountains.  The shopping is wonderful and there's so much for the kids to do."  She was referring to all the shlocky factory outlet stores, water slides, go carts, and amusement parks that clutter the gateway to the Smoky's in Pigeon Forge.  Sigh. :(

---
Suzanne Roat				Phone:	(510) 242-5313 Voice 
Chevron Research and Technology Company		(510) 242-4647 FAX
100 Chevron Way				Email:	roat@rrc.chevron.com
Richmond, CA  94802-0627
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: sustained yield forestry
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:38:23 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Jul22.060239.6582@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>
>Well I think we need to quickly mow down all the trees, make the
>Earth completely paved at 68 F, take a few prime specimens (with animals)

As I see it, we can either let Bill Clinton pave it over with massive
highway projects, or let Bush drill it full of oil-seeking holes.

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (A. Lani Teshima)
Subject: Re: Help!! My Tevas stink
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 05:13:04 GMT

In article <13812@borg.cs.unc.edu> kupstas@weiss.cs.unc.edu (Eileen Kupstas) writes:
>In article <1992Jul14.055424.14175@news.columbia.edu> scs8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sebastian C Sears) writes:
>>
>>	This is what my 'rents recommended when my Alps (my preference for
>>	these has already been well stated :-)) started to stink:
>>
>>	Soak them in a sink full of hot water and white vinegar... and it
>>	worked, reasonably well. I had to do it relatively often when I was
>...rest deleted
>
>
>As the originator of this post, I felt obligated to do a bit of 
>research :-) I called my dad, a polymer chemist, to ask what could
>be used on the Dacron webbing, Velcro, and rubber-type soles that
>wouldn't degrade one or the other. His recommendation, given with 
>a big caveat emptor, is to try a mild Chlorox solution and soak the
>shoes awhile. It might soften the soles a bit, but shouldn't 
>hurt the webbing. 
>
>I may try the white vinegar first, since it would be gentler, then
>move to the big guns (Chlorox) if that doesn't work. Heck, with 
>these rather powerful smelling shoes, I should donate them to 
>science and to a comparison test :-) I'll post if I get any news.
>

I agree about using bleach. I use a mild bleach solution to get the
smell out of my dive gear (wet suit and booties, primarily). Even if
they are rinsed, there's little things that seem to _grow_ or
something in 'em, and peeeeyooooh, do they get to smelling gross! Talk
about rotten sea smell!




--
A. Lani Teshima, UH School of Library & Info Studies   o | /_/_/ "Sea Hare"
A small mind is easily filled with faith.               o|<0_0>--------*
Blessed is a mind too small for doubt.                    \=^-| |____| | 
teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.edu                                 \_}B   \_}B
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: matt@unidata.ucar.edu (Matt Hicks)
Subject: Re: Bigfoot
Organization: Scientific Computing Division/NCAR Boulder, CO
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 21:42:24 GMT

watson@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (John S. Watson - FSC) writes:

>In article <1992Jul27.061117.22273@nezsdc.icl.co.nz> derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne) writes:
>> Wasn't there a new mammal discovered very recently (within weeks).  A friend
>> caught the end of the news item but I unfortunately missed it.

>Today's headline in the San Jose Mercury News  (July 28, 1992)
>tells of possiblity of the discovery of a previous unknown 
>(to western science) type of goat...etc. (deleted)

I sent an email to the original poster of the question regarding the discovery
of a new mammal. I think he was referring (refurring?:-) to a mammal found in
Australia within the last month. The name escapes me now, but it was typically
Australian (like bandicoot, wallaby, etc.) The animal itself is typically
Australian, as well, kind of looks like an Ewoc (sorry, wrong group) short, 
dense hair, big eyes, mournful expression. Doubtless the people at Qwantis are
negotiating with the little devils for their next ad campaign. Anyway, I heard 
about this on CNN (they had pictures); this is not so much a discovery as a re-
discovery, as the report said that the animals were believed to be extinct (i.e.,
they were not unknown before.) A colony of the critters was found in a remote
part of Australia.

They probably taste like chicken :-).

--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Matthew  B.  Hicks			Unidata Program Center
matt@unidata.ucar.edu				UCAR, PO Box 3000
303/497-8676					Boulder, CO 80307-3000
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: phil@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com
Subject: Re: Chevron - People Do?
Organization: Lockheed Santa Cruz, CA.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 13:55:50 GMT


 CHEVRON IS GENERALLY CONSIDERED ONE OF THE WORST ENVIRONMENTAL OFFENDERS. 
THIS IS MARKEDLY TRUE IN 3RD WORLD COUNTRYS