From: exuasqa@exu.ericsson.se (Asem Qaddoura,xt-dk,1209)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Words Feminists find Demeaning!
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:38:04 GMT
Reply-To: exuasqa@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
Originator: gwydion@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu


This is not a flame, but I had to defend my religion against such statements.
Please, don't waste your/my time on things that happens but don't reflect 
Islam.  And if you think it does reflect Islam(the religion of justice), then
don't say what you understood, instead say what does Islam teach.  If you
don't have any resources, let us know and I will be happy to provide you with
it.       
Thank you all

In article 713648718@bronto.cs.duke.edu, ghbr@fmg.bt.co.uk (Hossein Bagherzadeh Rafsanjani) writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.164720.23446@ucunix.san.uc.edu> minhaszt@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Zafar T Minhas) writes:
>>
>>Behnam Sadeghi writes:
>>>
>> >One question I wondered about for some time was this:  Given the fact
>> >that women are opppressed in the U.S. as well (e.g. refer to statistics
>> >regarding rape, wife-beating, lack of equal pay for equal work, etc.), why
>> >is that Americans [and Westerners in general], shed rivers of crocodile
>> >tears for Muslim women while pushing the grave problems of women in their
>> >own countries under the rug?  I arrived at the conclusion that it is not
>> >the status of Muslim women that these people really care about.  They don't
>> >give a damn about Muslims, be they male or female.  All they care about
>> >is covering up their own problems and insecurities, easing their conscience
>> >about the miserable status of American (and Western) women, and making
>> >themselves feel better by putting down others. 
>> >
>
>> Salam Alaikum Behnam, may add one more thing, not only is it that they are
>> trying to cover up there own problems, but when it comes right down to it
>> these people who just moan about the plight of Muslim women, these WHITE 
>> people are just racist.
>
>> sincerely
>
>> zafar minhas
>
>And we supposedly should be happy going around bragging about the status of
>women in our own (homeland) societies and feel no responsibilty whatsoever in
>voicing the plight of millions who are suffering (with the explicit or implicit
>approval of religious and state authorities) under the harsh social, religious,
>moral and civil codes.

	People's acts doe not always refelect the teachings of their religion
	So, don't balme the suffering you claim(if it exists the way you 
	calim) on Islam, my concern in this issue is Islam and its teachings.
	
>Where should our loyalties really belong?  To the oppressors who are ruling
>these societies and perpetuate the status quo, or to the millions of helpless
>girls/women who are forced into marriage, who are sold in marriages, who are

	Islam forbids such marriage.
	
>subject to perpetual rape in-and-out of marriage, who when they are raped
>(outside the marriage) they are in a bigger danger of being killed by their own

	First, are we talking about incidents that happen once or twice in a year!
	Second, What does Islam state on such incidents.
	If it says what you claim above and below please provide a proof. 

>relatives (to "save their honour"), who are beaten by their husbands

	The Prophet(SAWS) said in many authentic hadieths what means: the
	best among you(muslims) are those who treat their families(including
	wifes) in the best manner/behaviour.  One of the last things He	said
	before his death was(what means): treat women in a good positive and
	excelent quality.
	If a muslim family/husband behave in the manner you mentioned, simply
	this does not reflect Islam.  Besides,  if you comapre the percentage
	of such things in our countries to the statistics mentioned above, it
	is not comparable.

>as-a-matter-of-routine (for disobeyance on the grounds that it is sanctioned in
>Qoran) and even by other male relatives, who can be divorced and kicked out of

	The Qura'n does not state the above in the way you stated.  It requires
	according to Tafseer and the Prophet to have a mutual respect.
	This obedyance in Islam does not mean any of what you mentioned, it
	is different and has great impacts on the family and social life as
	a whole.

>their conjugal home at any time, who when divorced or widowed with no state
>support for themselves or children may be foced into prostitution (religious or
>otherwise) if the ex-husband evade supporting them (which so often happens),

	That is not true..............................If so, what does Islam
	have to do with it?????

>who when widowed can be kicked out of their life-long conjugal home, who etc,

	Anywhere in the world, if a divorce occurs, both husband and wife will
	leave that life.  If the man owns the house, he happens to be so, who
	has the right to take it away from him.  Besides, before marriage, this
	possiblity(according to Islam) is expected, so the marrige agreement
	states, what should be done in this case, and what the wife will take
	from the house, money,..etc.     Is this just?
	
>etc, etc...
>
>Shouldn't there be the slightest human consceience in us to hear these loud
>voices?  Are we just happy to quote the rape statistics in the States to boast
>about "our" women?  Have you ever thought why there are no comparable
>statistics in our societies?  Can any women in Iran or Pakistan go direct to
>the police station and say "officer, I was just raped"?  And if she ever does
>it, wouldn't it be first and foremost to ask for protection from her own

	Read the above..will you!!
	
>relatives (the same people whose support she would desparately need in order to
>overcome the trauma of rape)?  Is it really that hard for some to understand
>these harsh realities?
>
>Can't we understand that we live in an institionalised unequal society in
>whcih half the population is denied equal rights in many aspects of life

	Does equal right imply, the man and woman can walk around the streets
	half naked......Equal rights funny..
	Women in Islam have the best rights they could ever achieve....But
	it is those who don't appreciate justice beleive otherwise.

>including in marriage?  Isn't it the direct result of these apartheid regimes
>that Iran and many Arab countries (that is, the most religious ones) sent only
>an all-male team to the Olympics?

	To appreciate sports you don't have to show your figure.  What I mean
	the woman is appreciated without having to show her body to the entire
	world.  Please read other groups that talks about the Olympics, some
	people there emphasize on how good looking she is,..etc.  Regardless 
	of the percentage of such people, but why should we impose our 
	respected women in such manner.

>
>Forget about the "WHITE"s, Zafar.  Let's be honest about ourselves.  I am not
>white, and I do "moan about plight of Muslim women".  So what do you call me?
>A traitor, a westernized-liberal-atheist-so-and-so?  It wouldn't matter a thing
>for me.  What matters is how much YOU CARE about the oppressed in your society,
>and what YOU are DOING about it (that is, apart from telling them to become
>"good Muslims" to get rid of all these evils etc).  Are you proud of
>institutionalized apartheid in your homeland?  If not, then say it, and say it
>loudly - and then start to do something about it.  Call for an egalitarian
>society in whcih all citizens are proteced by law, all have the same share in
>power and resources, all enjoy equal rights, all are entitled to free beliefs,
>associations and expressions, and no religious or other sanctified rule/text
>can be used to limit these freedoms.

	Simply, I can't blame any of your claims on the religion of Islam.

>
>Or is it too much to ask from some people?
>
>-hossein

[Moderators Note: This thread seems about to break out in to
a flame war; I posted this article because it does do what it
claims to: not flame.  Please do not flame and try to maintain
a high level of intellectual discussion.  Thank you.]




Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam