From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Subject: Re :Female "Wiring"
Organization: LLNL
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 06:09:21 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.190515.29266@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.230923.13065@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
>   (Sheaffer, quoting de Beauvoir:)
@ :     tries to humiliate him as a virile man.... There are women,
@ :     sometimes likened to the praying mantis, who wish to  triumph
@ :     both by night and by day: they are cold in lovemaking, scornful
@ :     in conversation, tyrannical in conduct.
@ :
@ :Today that sort of behavior is held up as the ideal!  :)

@ 	By whom???

>Hey, note the Smiley, friend! 

>But actually, the smiley wasn't needed: check out some of the feminist
>manifestos in "Sisterhood is Powerful", which are at least as bad.

	Sheesh. You have a _very_ thin skin on this subject. I am told
that you had a personal crisis involving the opposite sex. Why don't
you try probing it to see if it has affected your opinions.
 
@ 	Robert Sheaffer, you sound like you are projecting some
@ serious personal hangup here. Feminism is _not_ about being a bad
@ loser, as you seem to think that feminism is. Are _you_ sure you're
@ not a bad loser at anything.
 
@ 	Why don't you read some of Susie Bright's works; she's a lot
@ more fun than Andrea Dworkin :-), and she's not a bad loser :-):-)

@ 	I'm sure you can find her works at Cody's Books or some other
@ big bookstore (I don't know much about San Jose bookstores because I
@ don't go there very often).

>I'm sure I can find them if I take the trouble to. The problem with
>you, Loren, is that you seem to think that every time Loren mentions
>a book, Robert is morally obligated to jump on the Politcally Correct
>Collective Transport and go up to San Francisco or whatever and buy it.

	C'mon. You asked us to read Camille Paglia, whom you consider
to be some sort of Prophet of Truth. Don't you like the taste of your
very own medicine?

	I'll give you some hints of what Susie Bright talks about in
her books:

	She claims that at one time, dildos were considered very
Politically Incorrect for lesbians to use when making love, becuase of
what they are like. However, that appears to have changed, and SB
herself is a definite dildo connoisseur, having a sizable collection.

	She even talks about vaginal "fisting" or "fist-fucking" as a
fun thing for a woman to experience, which may or may not be
interesting to you. Her big hint on it is: if a baby can get through
there, why can't a hand do it?

	She interviewed Camille Paglia, and, I think, got the better of
her. She concludes that CP is a "butch bottom", someone who is just
looking for a femme who can "flip" her.

	She also appeared on Phil Donahue once with a gay man who now
has (or at least at the time had) a female lover. This fellow claimed
that what his girlfriend likes about him is that he knows what it is
like to be _entered_, emotionally as well as physically. The audience
needed no prompting for its response here.

	She also claims that the most violent anti-male rhetoric comes
from heterosexual women, especially those in more-or-less
traditionalist roles. A lot of the stronger feminist rhetoric may come
out of that; she seems to be friendly toward the male sex (a of
lesbians seem to be like that).

	And I suggested PCCT because it is more than just PC -- it is
sometimes very convenient. And one doesn't have to drive it or park it :-)
 
@ 	You have complained that it takes you _so_ long to get to San
@ Francisco or Berkeley. I will inform you of ways to make getting there
@ a _lot_ easier, though you will have to ride some Politically Correct
@ Collective Transport. But some forms of PCCT are comfortable enough
@ 	To San Francisco:

@ 	You go to downtown San Jose and drive westward on San Fernando
@ or San Carlos St. until you come to some railroad tracks and an old

@ 	To Berkeley:

@ 	You go northward on I-880, and turn off eastward [right] at
@ Mowry St.  in Fremont. You go several blocks to Civic Center Dr., then

>Here we go again. Thanks, pal, I *know* how to get to San Francisco. In
>fact, I was there just a few evenings ago, to visit a friend. But I
>drove my car up. (Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!)

	Robert Sheaffer, your sarcasm is depressingly amateurish. I
can see that you didn't get the point of my suggestions. It was that
you do not _have_ to drive 50 miles each way just to get to San
Francisco, that there _are_ alternatives. You're the one complaining
about the 50-mile distance, remember?

	I can see that you don't know what you're missing :-)

	Just ride BART sometime and you'll see. Instead of the Road to
Damascus, it will be the Route to Richmond or Daly City :-):-):-)

	How would you like to not have to drive to San Francisco? And
instead to ride a smooth-riding and comfortable train there?

>"Sisterhood Is Powerful" is filled with some of the most vile and extreme
>invective against men I have ever seen. It was compiled about 20 years
>ago, but is still widely read. Its editor is Robin Morgan, the current
>editor of the "reasonable" Ms. magazine. You can buy a copy at the Stanford U.
>Bookstore. Get in your car, and drive from Livermore to the Dumbarton
>Bridge. Once you cross the Bay, drive south one exit on Freeway 101,
>then follow University Ave. directly into Stanford. Drive toward the
>Politically Very Incorrect Hoover Tower. At that point I generally get
>lost, so ask somebody how to get from there to the bookstore.

	I don't have a car, but I do know how to get to Stanford
University, if I should ever want to. All I do is to take a local bus
to the middle of Livermore, then a BART express bus to the Bay Fair
BART station, then BART to the Union City station, then the Dumbarton
Express bus to Palo Alto, then a local bus to Stanford University.
Isn't that simple? Or I could take BART to San Francisco, then the
Muni #30 trolleybus to the CalTrain station there, then CalTrain to
Palo Alto.  Or I could take BART to Fremont, then the Santa Clara #180
bus to the San Jose CalTrain station, then CalTrain to Palo Alto. See
how much fun it is to use PCCT? Well, it would have been more fun if
BART had been built bigger, say out to San Jose and Livermore. *Sigh*.

	And is Herbert Hoover your hero??? Gawd.

	And you deleting of "soc.women" from the subject line, Robert
Sheaffer, suggests something suspicious about you and the female sex.

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