From: dagolden@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Alexandre Golden)
Subject: Re: Class' power (was Re: how to imprison a psionicist)
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 00:35:44 GMT

In article <gfAv=Vi00YUo4XlLg1@andrew.cmu.edu> "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>dagolden@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Alexandre Golden) writes:
>> In article <1992Dec18.145226.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> tfpayn01@ulkyvx.louisvil\
>> le.edu writes:
>> >In article <1gr21hINNgqd@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu>, operbwt@nextwork.rose-hu\
>> lman.edu (Barry Trottier) writes:
>> >> In article <1992Dec17.023455.24956@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>  
>> >> praxis@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Laura L Perkinson) writes:
>> 
>> >>>     Sheesh! Where did folks get the idea that psionicists are so
>> >>> ungodly powerful? Sure they've got their strengths (one being: they're
>> [etc...]
>> 
>> >> Yeah, but the Psionicist can do the following:
>> [various ways for psionicists to kick ass]
>> 
>> [followed by various commentaries]
>> 
>> OK, but what happens to that awesome psionicist when he runs out of PSI 
>> points?  Say after taking on multiple opponents.  Sure, teleport away before
>> it's too late, but you can't run away forever and still get anything done.
>So the psion is weak because he can got a lot done (is versatile) and
>then escape.  Wow.  Sucks to be him.  

Yeah, but what if you need to be where you got a lot done.  Say if you
didn't get _everything_ done.  Or if you are _guarding_ something. Or if you
fail that teleport roll.  Unfortunately, most adventures are not structured
around a "hit and run" strategy.  (At least the ones I've played in or heard
about.)

>> Or, what happens when a psioicist runs into another psionically active
>> creature/NPC.  Whoa, now!  Bye bye free contacts!  Kiss off more points for
>> defense, and then pray for good luck on counterattack rolls.  Maybe if
>> you force a contact, you'll still have enough points to do some lobotomizing
>> Then, if there's a melee going on around at the same time, and opportunities
>> for disruption exist...
>> 
>> It seems to me that a psionicist only has great superiority facing
>> non psionicists, and only if heavily loaded on psi points.

Perhaps I should have said "only has ANY CHANCE OF superiority..."

>If the psion gets receptacle he's in much better shape.  Also, you're
>arguing psionicists aren't too powerful because they only do very well
>when they're *not* fighting psionicists.  So X isn't that good because
>it can't beat up X, but can beat up Y.  Seems like X is better than
>Y...

OK, so my paladin has a +5 Holy Avenger, so he's in much better shape.  Or
once a thief gets a ring of invisibility and some elven boots he's in much
better shape.  Etc.

I think I need to clarify my argument.  A psi kicks over non-psi's if the
psi is WELL SUPPLIED with PSP's, and is facing non-psi's, and (to add some
clarification) is not in a position to get disrupted.  (Let me point out that
a successful psi gradually reduces his effectiveness by spending PSP's)
Futhermore, I think
that the seeming dominance of the psionicist exists where psionicists are
relatively unique compared to other classes.  Could you imagine being
the ONLY thief in the whole world?  Or the only wizard?

That is, each class is a check to itself.  X counters X best.  
This is not to say that psi's dominate because they can only be 
countered by psi's.  Turn this argument around.  Fighters counter 
fighters best. etc.  

What I'm trying to get at is that each class has its strengths.  In a
situation where a class is unique among opponents and is allowed to
operate within its strengths, that class should dominate.  This is why in
typical marching orders, the fighters are in front and the spell casters
are in the center or back.  Each is placed where they are most potent.
The casters are placed in the pocket so they can cast with (hopefully) no
disruptions.  Etc.  This works for ALL classes.

In this thread, the psionicist is being placed either in a position of
strength or weakness, depending on who is trying to make what point.  Because
there are so many examples of BOTH situations (and the list is growing
with more and more far fetched qualifications) it seems to me that the
psionicist IS a balanced class.


>> What has to be realized is that ANY class seems overly powerful if you 
>> create the right scenario, i.e. one suited for that class' strengths.
>Ok, I want to hear one for a fighter or a thief.  

OK.  Two situations I actually was present for.  (i.e. NOT made up)

1.  Our ranger (5th or 6th level, attacks with two longswords, one is +1,
specialized) was hasted in order to deal with too many attackers.  He finally
fought threw a half dozen bugbears to confront the wizard who had been pounding
him with spells (i.e. he was down to low HPs).  The wizard was essentially
out of spells, and tried to pull a scroll to dimension door away.  But he
was confronted with our ranger who happened to be on his six-attack round.
(Two attacks of the 3/2 + the off hand, and doubled from haste).

The wizard was dogmeat.

2.  In another campaign, our party was fleeing from a drow warrior.  Our
thief was in the lead in a one-person wide corridor.  We reached a fork
(one passage actually branched back, so I guess we were coming out of a
fork).  The thief jumped in the back passage and successfully hid/was silent,
while the rest of the party ran on.  DM ruled that the drow wouldn't have
noticed the hide in the confusion.  Drow came past passage running after
the rest of us, and was nicely backstabbed, and hit again by an off-hand
attack.  One of them was also a "critical" (double damage) (I think it was the
off-hand).  Drow was now trapped between thief and the rest of the party,
which had immediately reversed to help the thief.  We judged this to be a 
masterful performace by our thief.

D.Golden


-- 
David A. Golden '95           (dagolden@phoenix.princeton.edu)
Princeton University