HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Problems with f2c
Reply-To: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 22:07:14 GMT
Keywords: Fortran, C, translator

In article <92-07-105@comp.compilers> lacey@cps.msu.edu writes:
>I am unhappy with how f2c hands PARAMETER statements...
>[the resulting C isn't too readable]

This is really a fundamental consequence of f2c's objectives: it is not
meant to produce good-looking C code.  In the opinion of the authors, as
expressed in their documentation, fully automatic translation to clean,
maintainable C was impractical, so they didn't try.  Changing this is
going to require much more than just a fix for PARAMETER handling, I would
suspect.

Does anybody know of any more recent work on getting readable code out of
fully-automatic language translation?  (Fully automatic only, please;
semi-automatic systems that can do it with human help have been around
since before f2c.)
-- 
Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology, henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
[The commercial Fortran to C translators such as Promula and For-C try a lot
harder than f2c does to produce legible Fortran. -John]
-- 
Send compilers articles to compilers@iecc.cambridge.ma.us or
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From: shankar@sgi.com (Shankar Unni)
Newsgroups: comp.compilers
Subject: Re: Pros and cons of high-level intermediate languages
Keywords: translator, design
Date: 23 Jul 92 00:17:01 GMT
Reply-To: shankar@sgi.com (Shankar Unni)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

bbx!bbx.basis.com!scott@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Scott Amspoker) writes:

>   * The ANSI spec which renders stack variables unpredictable after
>     a longjump() sucks.  This is solved by declaring them 'volatile'
>     but then you might lose bigtime in the optimizer.

This is totally bogus. Let us assume that the ANSI spec were to say: local
variables are guaranteed to retain their values when a longjmp() takes you
back to the stack.

Now how would this be done on a machine with several registers (i.e.
something more modern than an 8085)? You'd either:

  (a) have to save register-cached variables back to stack before every
      call, making the call overhead prohibitive and slowing the whole
      program down tremendously, OR
  (b) Make "longjmp()" unwind stack-frame by stack-frame to return to the
      setjmp() point, making *that* very expensive.

For (a), you only have to do the flushing in routines that call
"setjmp()", and only for calls executed after the call to setjmp().  A
compiler smart enough to do this, can also flush only those variables that
are actually used after the setjmp() call.

But this is pretty much what you are doing by finding those variables
yourself and declaring them "volatile".  You lose no more and possibly
less by doing so, because you can often tell better than a compiler which
variables you are *really* depending to keep their values after a
longjmp() - there are usually only a couple at most in any routine.

The whole "optimizer/volatile" bogeyman is a knee-jerk reaction by the
Luddites in the C programming community who are too lazy to identify the
really volatile variables.
--
Shankar Unni				E-Mail:	shankar@sgi.com
Silicon Graphics Inc.			Phone:	+1-415-390-2072
-- 
Send compilers articles to compilers@iecc.cambridge.ma.us or
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From: mjl@cs.rit.edu (Michael J Lutz)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Colleges Need to Fix the Bugs in Computer-Science Courses
Date: 28 Jul 92 15:42:47 GMT
Reply-To: mjl@cs.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology

In article <2388.2a708d66@vger.nsu.edu>, g_harrison@vger.nsu.edu (George C. Harrison, Norfolk State University) writes:
|> In article <matjmm.711728626@gsusgi1.gsu.edu>, matjmm@gsusgi1.gsu.edu (J. Morgan Morris) writes:
|> > pattis@cs.washington.edu (Richard Pattis) writes:
|> > 
|> >>The July 15th issue of The Chronicle of Higher Education has this article on
|> >>page B3, as an opinon piece by Nathaniel S. Borenstein.
|> > 
|> > 
|> >>Rich Pattis
|> 
|> Borenstein's article appeared in the July 15, 1992 issue of "The Chronicle of
|> Higher Education."  Most college libraries should have a copy. 
|>  


For those who are interested in an extended discussion of many of these
ideas, I suggest the highly readable (and controversial) book:

	Programming as if People Mattered:
	Friendly Programs, Software Engineering, and Other Noble Delusions
	Nathaniel Borenstein
	Princeton University Press
	1991

-- 

Mike Lutz
Department of Computer Science
Rochester Institute of Technology
Rochester, NY 14623-0887  USA
+1 (716) 475-2472
mjl@cs.rit.edu
Newsgroups: comp.edu
From: woodward@skorpio.usask.ca (Sharolynn Woodward)
Subject: Circuit and Gate Simulation Package
Organization: University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 16:20:01 GMT

Thanks to everyone who responded to my request for a circuit
and gate simulation package for use in one of our 
undergraduate courses. 

The following is a brief summary of the info I received: 

1. Galaxy

"The Galaxy CAD System is an integrated environment for 
digital design and for rapid prototyping of CAD tools and 
other software. The system currently includes schematic 
capture and simulation of both low-level and high-level 
digital designs, capture and simulation of state diagrams 
and hardware flowcharts, synthesis of Intel EPLD's and 
mapping of logic into physical boards. 

"Runs on most 680X0 platforms, including the Apple 
Macintosh, HP 9000/3XX/4XX, Sun-3, Apollo Domain, and 
Atari ST. Versions for Intel 386+ and RISC workstations 
are under development. 

Available via anonymous FTP from eceserv0.ece.wisc.edu 
(128.104.38.25) 

(above taken from the product announcement posted to 
comp.sys.mac on 1 Apr 92; thanks to golan.cs.wisc.edu 
for the pointer in this direction) 

2. Logic Simulator

"provides a modest library of built-in primitive elements 
as well as the capability for macro definitions and expansions. 
In addition to the many gate types provided, functional 
elements including latches, shift registers, counters, 
multiplexers, decoders, rams, roms and microprocessors 
are available. The primitive, multiple-input gate types 
allow an arbitrary number of inputs, and the 
functionally-modeled elements such as counters 
and registers can have any bit-width. 

"Users, from simple logic gate exercising (with an i
nteractive screen-graphics display), to the implementation 
of complete computers are feasible. 

Runs on Sun-SPARC (OpenLook) and PC (DOS). 

Available via anonymous ftp from acs.msu.edu (35.8.56.90) 

(thanks to reid@cps.msu.edu for the above info) 

3. PSpice

"a Mac implementation of SPICE

Available via anonymous ftp from sumex-aim.stanford.edu
 as the file /info-mac/app/pspice-51.hqx 

4. DigSim

Possibly available from sumex-aim.stanford.edu 
(although I haven't been able to get a connection there 
to confirm this) 

(Thanks to tonyrich@cs.wisc.edu for the leads on
 PSpice and DigSim) 

5. Designworks

This is a CAD tool from Capilano Computing that
accompanies the text "Digital Logic and Computer Design" 
by T.R. McCalla, available from Maxwell MacMillan 
publishers. I am waiting for the book rep to return my 
calls regarding an evaluation copy of this product, 
since the faculty member who wants the software 
is now considering the adoption of this text. 


We have yet to fully evaluate these possibilities; 
I'll post again later to pass on our findings.
From: stgprao@xing.unocal.com (Richard Ottolini)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Joint CS/Art Graphics Major??
Keywords: curriculum graphics art computer science
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:10:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: unocal.1992Jul28.171005.7451
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Originator: stgprao@xing

In article <1992Jul28.095450.6916@news.ysu.edu> mullins@ipc2.macs.ysu.edu () writes:
>
> I have been assigned the task of considering a new interdisciplinary
>major in graphics involving computer science and art (not graphic arts).
>
>If you have a program at your local university that comes close to
>this description I would greatly appreciate learning about it via e-mail.

Check out back issues of SIGGRAPH's Computer Graphics.
They print education surveys and description of college programs of
all kinds from the more computer-oriented to the art-oriented.
Newsgroups: comp.edu
From: reisner@prism.cs.orst.edu (Ron Reisner)
Subject: Re: Logo
Organization: Oregon State University, Computer Science Dept
Distribution: orst
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 00:54:34 GMT

I'm looking for a PD version of Logo w/source code.  Thanks!
Newsgroups: comp.edu
From: matjmm@gsusgi1.gsu.edu (J. Morgan Morris)
Subject: Re: Colleges Need to Fix the Bugs in Computer-Science Courses
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:23:46 GMT

pattis@cs.washington.edu (Richard Pattis) writes:

>The July 15th issue of The Chronicle of Higher Education has this article on
>page B3, as an opinon piece by Nathaniel S. Borenstein.


>Rich Pattis

I don't know where to read this journal. Could someone post a summary
of the article?

Thanks,
Morgan


-- 
John Morgan Morris
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
Georgia State University
Atlanta, GA. 30303-3083
matjmm@gsusgi1.gsu.edu
(404) 651-2253
From: chavey@jalapeno.cs.wisc.edu (Darrah Chavey)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Introductory Language Tutorials
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:37:47 GMT
Organization: Beloit College, Beloit, Wisc.

In article <1992Jul21.152916.26988@hellgate.utah.edu> zachary%denali.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Joe Zachary) writes:
>
>I am working toward replacing our traditional lecture-based classes in
>Fortran and C with classes in which students will read textbooks, use
>interactive tutorials, do substantial hands-on work, and ask questions
>of lab assistants.  I'd appreciate hearing from any of you that are
>doing or contemplating similar things.
>
>			- Joe Zachary

I am also considering doing this, and would like to hear how your
approach goes.  For many years, Queens College of CUNY has done this.
Their approach in teaching languages (after the first one) is that students
take a 1 credit course as an independent project, working off of a tutorial
manual, with programming expected of them.  The students must also pass a
final exam.  For more details on their experiences, you might wish to write
to Dr. Seymour Goodman at Queens (Flushing, NY 11367)
        email: saggc@cunyvm.cuny.edu.


--Darrah Chavey
  Beloit College
From: BSS_NEIL@vd.seqeb.gov.au
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: TLC-Logo
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:02:05 EST
Organization: South East Queensland Electricity Board






Can anyone tell me if TLC-Logo is still available. If yes, can you tell me
for which platforms and who to contact.

Neil
From: ebc@uis.co.za (Errol Back-Cunningham)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: AUTHORING SYSTEMS FOR UNIX
Keywords: AUTHORING SCO UNIX
Date: 30 Jul 92 07:14:21 GMT
Organization: Unix Information Systems (Pty) Ltd (UIS)


Hi,

I'm looking for an authoring system that will work effectively on SCO
UNIX.  Multi-media capability would be nice, but is not necessary at
this stage. Anyone used any decent products in this line?

Thanx in advance.

======================================================================
Errol Back-Cunningham                         ebc@uis.co.za
Unix Information Systems (Pty) Ltd (UIS)      Tel +27 21 4194107
Cape Town, South Africa                       Fax +27 21 252828
Newsgroups: comp.edu
From: Reg Foulkes    
Subject: Re: Colleges Need to Fix the Bugs in Computer-Science Courses
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 22:25:30 GMT

In article <5349@naucse.cse.nau.edu> kwc@naucse.cse.nau.edu (Ken Collier)
writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.145301.27057@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu>
waltp@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (waltp) writes:
>>In engineering, there is a separation between engineering degrees
>>and engineering technology degrees.  I think we need the same
>>distinction in computer science.  Many (most?) CS graduates
>>go to work as applications programmers and could benefit from
>>less theoretical computer science and more practical work in
>>related areas (business OR engineering OR physics OR...)
>>
>
>While you may have a convincing argument  for  playing  down  the
>theoretical  education  that  CS  majors  get and emphasizing the
>practical, we have observed some serious problems with  this  ap-
>proach.   I am in the computer science department at Northern Ar-
>izona University which is housed in the  College  of  Engineering
>and  Technology.   Except  for  CS  all  of the other engineering
>departments in our college (EE,ME,CE) have had tech  alternatives
>for  the  past 15 years or so.  Feedback from alumni have told us
>that people with tech degrees  have  greater  difficulty  getting
>jobs and  command lower salaries with far fewer opportunities for
>advancement.  As a result of this, the tech enrollments have been
>on a steady decline until this past Spring when the tech programs
>were finally given a proper burial.  

 The problem does not necessarily lie with the degree maybe it lies
with the employer. He must be convinced that they are of equal difficulty
just different perspectives...

 Most employers don't really know what they need.

--------------------------------
Reg Foulkes                             Bell-Northern Research
riskit@x400gate.bnr.ca           2745 Iris Street
Telephone :(613) 763-4131     Ottawa, Ontario., Canada  K1Y 4H7
From: Reg Foulkes
Subject: Re: Colleges Need to Fix the Bugs in Computer-Science Courses
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 12:48:26 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.095819.24215@athena.mit.edu> solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason
W Solinsky) writes:

>I disagree, however, with placing the fault on schools when it should be
placed
>on companies. The depth of a bachelors degree major is deeper than what would
>be provided by a software engineering sans theory major. It belongs with most
>electronics engineering degrees at the associate level. A Bachelors degree is
>simply not necessary for your most basic programmer. Alas there seems to be
>an attitude (in all fields) that a BS is necessary to do anything.

 This is probably the most over-looked factor. Companies need to relax their 
standards somewhat and bring in people from other areas. At a programming level

I believe it is better to have a general background rather than a specific 
background. 

--------------------------------
Reg Foulkes                             Bell-Northern Research
riskit@x400gate.bnr.ca           2745 Iris Street
Telephone :(613) 763-4131     Ottawa, Ontario., Canada  K1Y 4H7
From: dlm@sjfc.UUCP (Don Muench)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Colleges Need to Fix the Bugs in Computer-Science Courses
Summary: library
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:38:33 GMT
Organization: St. John Fisher College, Rochester, NY

In article <matjmm.711728626@gsusgi1.gsu.edu>, matjmm@gsusgi1.gsu.edu (J. Morgan Morris) writes:
> pattis@cs.washington.edu (Richard Pattis) writes:
> >The July 15th issue of The Chronicle of Higher Education has this article on
> >page B3, as an opinon piece by Nathaniel S. Borenstein.
> 
> I don't know where to read this journal. Could someone post a summary
> of the article?
> 

The Chronicle of Higher of Education is THE newspaper of the higher education
community and should be found in any college or university library.  Some
academic departments subscribe, too.

Don
Newsgroups: comp.edu
From: gowj@novavax.UUCP (James Gow)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Microcomputers:  Practical Applications For Teachers
Date: 22 Jul 92 02:23:10 GMT
Reply-To: gowj@novavax.UUCP (James Gow)
Organization: Nova University, Fort Lauderdale, Florida

You might consider an expert system demo.

-- 
Linc, James Internet: Gowj@novavax.nova.edu; UUCP: gatech!uflorida!novavax!gowj
Songs of Solomon 2:12 "...the voice of the turtle is heard in our land."
James Gow P.O. Box 700585 Miami, Fla. 33170. Disclaimer [Is this really
necessary? I have a hard time getting people to understand this!]
From: paw@coos.dartmouth.edu (Pat Wilson)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Computers in the Classroom - are they out there?
Keywords: Computers classrooms education
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:25:30 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

msanseve@sol.UVic.CA (Mary Sanseverino) writes:

>I have a question: are there really enough computing classrooms available
>in the institutes of higher learning around the world?  I ask this because
>I get the feeling that, other than in the very technically based classes 
>like comp. sci., engineering, and some stats classes, computers are not 
>really used as a teaching and learning tool.  Given that multi-media
>(okay, I used a "buzzword", but educators do seem to be talking about it :-) )
>looks to be making a big break into the humanities, especially in second 
>language acquisition, I wonder if schools have the hardware to move into 
>this area.  Certainly multi-media, to be effective, does not need to be 
>driven by a computer, but ... it sure looks like it helps!      
> 
>I wonder if any interested people out there might care to comment?  Also,
>I would like to know what the computing capability of various schools might
>be with regard to Computer Assisted Instruction (CAI), multi-media, or 
>other non-traditional uses of computer technology.  

Dartmouth has been successful in getting computing deeply imbedded
in much of its curriculum (even in non-traditional areas, such as
the humanities).  We're aided by the fact that owning some sort of
computer is now a requirement for undergraduates, and that we've
standardized wherever possible (for example, though it's not specified
which computer you own, the vast majority of students have some sort
of Macintosh, and our environment takes full advantage of that fact).

It's certainly not been easy convincing faculty to retool their courses
around computing, but we've found that once the first couple of
courses start, it gets easier...




--
Pat Wilson
Systems Manager, Project NORTHSTAR
paw@northstar.dartmouth.edu
Newsgroups: comp.edu
From: rpiercy@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Rogers Piercy)
Subject: computers in medicine
Keywords: medicine/diagnosis/physicians
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 23:06:39 GMT

Information requested regarding computers & medicine for journal mailed at no
charge to 90,000 physicians each month.
  
"Physicians & Computers" is soliciting manuscripts that describe changes
brought about by the direct use of computers in the practice of medicine.  
Each manuscript should focus on a single area medical care.  Examples include:
Computerized Diagnosis--(various medical disciplines), Physican Authored,
Medical Software, Handheld Computers--Patient History/Charting, Medical
Practice Networking, Notebook Computers in Clinical Research, Computerized
Reimbursement, Developming Trends in Clinical Computing, Computerized Medical
Records, and Medical Decision Making.
 
Articles requested in the 1500-2000 length word range.  Physician authors are
advised to contact rpiercy@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Rogers Piercy)
 


Newsgroups: comp.edu
From: hibrown@thor.albany.edu (Herb Brown)
Subject: Re: Computers in the Classroom - are they out there?
Keywords: Computers classrooms education
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 23:57:21 GMT

In article <msanseve.712437576@sol.UVic.CA> msanseve@sol.UVic.CA (Mary Sanseverino) writes:
>I have a question: are there really enough computing classrooms available
>in the institutes of higher learning around the world?  I ask this because
> 
>  [... deleted ...]
>
>I wonder if any interested people out there might care to comment?  Also,
>I would like to know what the computing capability of various schools might
>be with regard to Computer Assisted Instruction (CAI), multi-media, or 
>other non-traditional uses of computer technology.  
>
>Regards            
>Mary Sanseverino
>
>Computer Assisted Language Learning Facility
>University of Victoria
>Victoria, B.C. 
>LLABCON1@UVVM.UVIC.CA
>


The University at Albany created a specially designed Computer Classroom
for the Mathematics Dept where we offer a full range of courses from our
undergraduate curriculum as well as some graduate courses. This is the
third year of its existence and for most of us it has changed the way
we teach as well as what we teach. Students interact simultaneously with
their computer, with the instructor's computer, with the instructor at
the blackboard and with fellow students. The major piece of software is
Maple, a sophisticated computer algebra system and the platform we decided
on is the Amiga. It's an exciting atmosphere for learning.

Herb


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Herb Brown  Math Dept  The Univ at Albany  Albany, NY 12222  (518) 442-4640
Director,                                          hibrown@sarah.albany.edu  
Computer Assisted Instruction in Mathematics       hibrown@thor.albany.edu
Newsgroups: comp.edu
From: waltp@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (waltp)
Subject: Re: Colleges Need to Fix the Bugs in Computer-Science Courses
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:53:01 GMT

In engineering, there is a separation between engineering degrees
and engineering technology degrees.  I think we need the same
distinction in computer science.  Many (most?) CS graduates
go to work as applications programmers and could benefit from
less theoretical computer science and more practical work in
related areas (business OR engineering OR physics OR...)



-- 
----------------------------------------------
Walter G. Piotrowski        waltp@bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu
Computer Science Department - Binghamton University 
Binghamton, NY 13902-6000     (607) 777-4368
Newsgroups: comp.edu
From: Reg Foulkes    
Subject: Re: Colleges Need to Fix the Bugs in Computer-Science Courses
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:58:56 GMT

In article <155tflINNlnk@agate.berkeley.edu> bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian
Harvey) writes:

>I am not convinced that students are well served by any undergraduate
>engineering degree, including the CS degree.  I think undergraduates
>should have a liberal education.  That means they should major in
>something real, like maybe math or physics, and should take plenty of
>literature and writing and history and philosophy and psychology on
>the side.  And on top of that, let them take a pre-engineering program
>similar in spirit to pre-med or pre-law.]

 Excellent! 

Brian, I've advocated this approach for years. But to my dismay
many don't believe in this approach. There prime argument is that it is a 
waste of time. And further, people only have a limited amount of 
resources. However, in the long run I believe that this is the best 
approach. Especially if the undergraduate (if he prefers science) takes 
more math and physics. With that type of background the drift into 
a professional science program should be easy.

I don't know about the university system in the USA, but in Canada this is 
very difficult, since the different faculties don't talk to one another. 


--------------------------------
Reg Foulkes                             Bell-Northern Research
riskit@x400gate.bnr.ca           2745 Iris Street
Telephone :(613) 763-4131     Ottawa, Ontario., Canada  K1Y 4H7
Newsgroups: comp.edu,sci.math.stat,dc.general,jhu.general
From: lindss@aix.rpi.edu (Steven Anthony Lindsey)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: TRIGSPICE
Summary: Info. needed about TRIGSPICE for undergraduate research.
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:10:35 GMT

I am currently involved in undergraduate research in which I need to
simulate the effects of a cosmic ray hitting the transistors in a
CMOS static RAM cell and causing a transient upset.  I heard that
TRIGSPICE was developed with similar problems in mind, and wondered
if it would be helpful.  If you have information on TRIGSPICE, or
know of any papers written on similar applications, please reply or
mail me at  lindss@rpi.edu
Newsgroups: comp.edu