HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bjst@sth.frontec.se (Bjorn Stenberg)
Subject: Re: The need for an assembler (was: Favorite CPU)
Organization: IDK/Frontec, Sweden
Date: 30 Aug 92 15:16:16 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.133953.19772@cs.tcd.ie> sflinter@cs.tcd.ie (Stephen Flinter) writes:
>In article <1992Aug28.035239.21736@wariat.org> sjsobol@wariat.org (Steven J. Sobol) writes:
>>
>>Real programmers would realize that 'copy con program.exe' is impossible
>>because DOS wouldn't let you enter all values 0-255 from the keyboard 
>>(at least not using ASCII...)
>Sorry, not true!  By typing ALT-xxx, where xxx is the ASCII
>code of the character required, on a PC's number keypad you
>can access all 256 characters.

Well, yes. But problems occur when you want to include, say, character #26 in
your file. Character 26 (dec) == EOF (ASCII) which makes COPY believe there
is nothing more to be copied, and therefore terminates the operation the next
time you punch #13 (CR) into your "code"...

	-- Bjorn

      ///  Bjorn Stenberg, Stockholm, Sweden         bjst@sth.frontec.se
     ///  main() { printf(&unix["\021%six\012\0"],(unix)["have"]+"fun"-0x60);}
\\\ ///  "- Your documentation no longer confuses me, old version!"
 \\X//                                              -- Lord Vadic, Dec Wars
Newsgroups: alt.religion.computers,comp.windows.misc,comp.windows.news,comp.windows.x,comp.human-factors
From: tina@csi.on.ca (Tina Klein)
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Organization: Carp Systems International, Kanata, ON
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 12:49:28 GMT

Keep the coffee on the right and the mouse on the left and you'll never have a 
space problem.

I have a corner workstation-desk-thing.  Mouse, keyboard, coffee.

Manuals on the left. 

WIP on the right.
-- 
Tina Klein, Technical Writer           CAnet: tina@csi.on.ca
CSI, 600 Terry Fox Drive - Suite 200   Phone: (613) 592-5780
Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2L 4B6        Fax:   (613) 592-0584
Xref: sparky alt.religion.computers:575 comp.windows.misc:1215 comp.windows.news:531 comp.windows.x:15740 comp.human-factors:1910
From: plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joe Six-pack)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.computers,comp.windows.misc,comp.windows.news,comp.windows.x,comp.human-factors
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Date: 27 Aug 1992 16:50:17 GMT
Organization: Brown University Planetary Geology
NNTP-Posting-Host: pilsner.geo.brown.edu
Keywords: n

In article <id.Q4NS.1SE@ferranti.com> peter@ferranti.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.182548.2932@nntp.uoregon.edu> johnm@cajal.uoregon.edu (John Martin) writes:
>> For kicks sometime, take a person who is used to a CLI and put them on a Mac.
>> I guarantee that they will not be able to do *anything* useful until they have
>> either read the manual or experimented a lot.
>
>To put it bluntly, this is complete balderdash.

   Not completely.  How does a CLI person know how to do common things
like file copying, renaming, moving, etc?  I *still* can't remember
whether dragging & dropping a file icon between directory windows
on the Macintosh will do a move or a copy, and have trouble remembering
what bizarre key/mouse combinations it takes to do "the other one."
At least with VMS and Unix you have 'HELP' and 'man' if you forget
how to, for example, get confirmations on file deletion.
(And don't get me started on the idiocy of insisting on a one-button
mouse, when it just forces you into keyboard overload mode--
shift-ctrl-click-unshift-drag-doubleclick-unctrl-applekey. :-)
--
Joel Plutchak, Research Programmer/Analyst
Xref: sparky alt.religion.computers:679 comp.human-factors:2054 comp.windows.misc:1324 comp.windows.news:621 comp.windows.x:16135
From: zklf0b@gs144.uucp (Fergason)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.computers,comp.human-factors,comp.windows.misc,comp.windows.news,comp.windows.x
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Keywords: Mac, Window, Thrown
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:49:16 GMT
Organization: Amoco Production


In article <1992Sep2.171407.11876@news.cs.indiana.edu> krawling@banana.ucs.indiana.edu (Ken Rawlings) writes:
>
>        #1: Send a postscript file to the printer. Just shove that baby down
>            the serial connection to the printer. No, I don't want to modify
>            it in a word processor, or anything else. Here's the file, across
>            the room is a postscript printer. Send it. I've talked to
>            _numerous_ people that consider themselves "Mac Gods" and they
>            all agreed, "Can't be done without a special program, and I don't
>            know where you'd find it"

	Sendps has existed for years.  I BELIEVE that it has problems with
	system 7.  Otherwise, I agree with you.  

>
>        #2: See this file sitting on the Hard Drive? Execute it. No, I don't
>            care that you think it's a "Document", just trust me and run the
>            damn thing. This is a _real_ problem when you have a bunch of
>            .hqx files, and have a copy of binhex4.bin that you downloaded
>            with a PC(why didn't I download it on the mac? Those beautiful
>            unstandard serial ports that I don't have a cable for and Apple
>            wants an arm and a leg for a converter for, and ComputerLand 
>            can't understand the question in the first place :-( )

	This is fairly trivial to fix.  Just the file type, which can be
	changed with any Mac disk editor type program.  
	Also, I don't know if $10 is and arm and a leg, but thats about all
	they were in College Staiton.  

>
>        These are two _real_, non contrived problems I have encountered
>_recently_ with Mac's and have caused me no end of consternation. The thing
>that makes me mad is that I _WANT_ to like Mac's, lord knows i'm sick of DOS,
>but there's this big wall that's put up between me and the Machine that
>_purposely_ keeps me from doing what I want to do.
>
>        Basically, I can't deal with a computer that thinks it's smarter than
>me...
>
>                                        Hoping to be proved wrong(please!),
>                                                        Ken Rawlings
Xref: sparky alt.religion.computers:670 comp.human-factors:2046
From: plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joel Plutchak)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.computers,comp.human-factors
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Date: 3 Sep 1992 20:41:53 GMT
Organization: Brown University Planetary Geology
NNTP-Posting-Host: pilsner.geo.brown.edu

In article <1992Sep1.090148.4206@msc.cornell.edu> maynard@groo.msc.cornell.edu (Maynard J. Handley) writes:
>I think you are omitting one point. Apple would claim that these designers
>ARE NOT sitting around thinking of something different, but sitting around
>thinking about how to copy the Mac.

   I think you're omitting one point.  Apple did not invent the GUI,
nor the desktop metaphor.
--
Joel Plutchak, Research Programmer/Analyst
Xref: sparky alt.religion.computers:663 comp.windows.misc:1308 comp.windows.news:611 comp.windows.x:16103 comp.human-factors:2035
From: neil@cadreor.cadre.com (Neil W. Van Dyke)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.computers,comp.windows.misc,comp.windows.news,comp.windows.x,comp.human-factors
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Date: 3 Sep 92 18:22:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: cadreor.1992Sep3.182215.1813
Organization: Cadre Technologies, Inc., Portland Operation
Followups-To: comp.misc

In my humble opinion, this thread has overstayed its welcome in
"comp.human-factors".  Could it please be taken somewhere else?  Thanks.
Newsgroups: alt.religion.computers
From: andy@research.canon.oz.au (Andy Newman)
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Organization: Canon Information Systems Research Australia
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 03:33:57 GMT

bagwill@swe.ncsl.nist.gov (Bob &) writes:
>peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva) writes:
>: System 7 and Motif don't take more CPU power because they're rendering more
>: stuff. They take more CPU power because they're badly designed internally.
>
>IMHO, X is big because an X server is a guest operating system running
>on top of our beloved kitchen-sink UNIX.  X has tasking, memory
>management, IPC, resource management, security, and so on.  No wonder
>it's big.  And every X client is a portable device driver that has to
>be aware of the hardware and software environment, has to support
>cooperative multitasking, has to deliberately share font and color and memory
>resources, has to be well-behaved, or the system breaks.
>
>--
>Bob Bagwill
>Caveat Canem

Bob, I think you just backed up Peter's statement, i.e. poor design.
-- 
Andy Newman (andy@research.canon.oz.au)		"int - God's own type"
Newsgroups: alt.religion.computers,comp.human-factors,comp.windows.misc,comp.windows.news,comp.windows.x
From: johnm@cajal.uoregon.edu (John Martin)
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Keywords: nn
Organization: Institute of Neuroscience, University of Oregon
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 18:56:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.094759.11659@walter.cray.com>, toma@romulus.cray.com (Thomas Arneberg) writes:

>You can argue about how it was FOR YOU, but all I have to go on is the
>people I have worked with. I have helped dozens of people learn the Mac;
>many of them had tried and failed to be productive with IBM clones. These
>types of people included salesmen, general contractors, doctors, church
>secretaries, moms, 4th grade girls, etc. 
>
>These are not your typical power users, but people who would like to get a 
>few simple things done with their computer -- write letters, simple 
>spreadsheets or databases, church bulletins and calendars, etc.

This is exactly the type of user that GUIs are perfect for! I don't think that
anyone is arguing otherwise.  BUT -- among proficient users, a good CLI is
still better and more productive then a GUI.


-- 
John Martin                                        johnm@cajal.uoregon.edu
Institute of Neuroscience,   University of Oregon,    Eugene, OR,    97402
Xref: sparky alt.religion.computers:664 comp.windows.misc:1309 comp.windows.news:612 comp.windows.x:16105 comp.human-factors:2037
From: neeri@iis.ethz.ch (Matthias Neeracher)
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Organization: Integrated Systems Laboratory, ETH, Zurich
	<NEERI.92Sep1141334@iis.ethz.ch>
	<1992Sep1.233227.12778@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au>
	<1992Sep2.023407.10010@reed.edu>
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 16:22:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.023407.10010@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.233227.12778@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au> ghm@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller) writes:
>>OK, someone working full-time on Mac software development may find it
>>worth while to get the MPW Shell, but I question whether even the power
>>users would.
>
>ever try to actually USE the MPW shell? It's a piece of garbage. Not
>only do they egregiously change keystrokes around so you're using
>bizarre non-ASCII symbols for half of your work, but it is atrociously
>slow! Bad display speed, slow command processing, ... If anything, it
>is a parody of a CLI.

Haven't we gone through this discussion on this esteemed forum half a year ago?
I won't argue about speed, except to say that it runs fast enough for me on a 5
year old Mac II. The advantage of Apple's approach to regular expressions is
that filename patterns are a true subset of regular expressions, while all
other environments I have seen have incompatible syntax for the two.

>ObGripe of the day - "Yes/No/Always" dialogue boxes for which the
>keyboard is dead. Nothing pisses me off more than not being able to
>hit the "Y" key, but instead I have to go move to the mouse, carefully
>position some little dealey within 10 pixels, and THEN press a button.
>Both Macintoshes and NeXTs do this.

Not true. The MPW shell accepts Command-Y and Command-N for Yes and No.

Matthias

-----
Matthias Neeracher                                      neeri@iis.ethz.ch
   "You think people really worship the devil?"
   "Sure. It's the perfect religion--you fuck up, you go to heaven"
                                     -- Andrew Vachss, _Sacrifice_
Newsgroups: alt.religion.computers,comp.human-factors,comp.windows.misc,comp.windows.news,comp.windows.x
From: Peter.Gorny@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de (Peter Gorny)
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Organization: University of Oldenburg, Germany
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 20:45:22 GMT

bbrown@infonode.ingr.com (Bailey Brown) writes:

>mark@zeus.ocs.com (Mark Wilson) writes:

>>        Boxes with checkmarks are intuitive.  Boxes with X's
>>        (like Windows, I'm sorry to say) are NOT.  My personal
>>        first assumption when I saw the X: 'X' must mean
>>        "UNselected"... but 'blank' means unselected... maybe 'X'
>>        means OFF, blank means no choice yet, and check will be
>>        ON... No, that don't work, it just toggles between 'X'
>>        and blank... *sigh*... I guess 'X' means ON...

>Is it really this hard?  What if someone handed you a 
>a paper questionaire he had just filled out using 'X's instead
>of check marks.  Would you have trouble figuring out which
>boxes he had selected and which ones he had not selected?

The use of checkmarks (looking like a letter "V" in italics) is 
culturally dependant -- it is an Anglo-American speciality; but 
-- we know what you mean! In Germany we would "X" as a checkmark.

Peter Gorny
Newsgroups: alt.religion.computers,comp.windows.x
From: mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse)
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Organization: McGill Research Centre for Intelligent Machines
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 22:41:55 GMT

In article <id.7ERS.1RG@ferranti.com>, peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva) writes:
> In article <17j149INNi9r@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU> plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joe Six-pack) writes:
>> In article <id.Q4NS.1SE@ferranti.com> peter@ferranti.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>>> In article <1992Aug21.182548.2932@nntp.uoregon.edu> johnm@cajal.uoregon.edu (John Martin) writes:
>>>> For kicks sometime, take a person who is used to a CLI and put
>>>> them on a Mac.  I guarantee that they will not be able to do
>>>> *anything* useful until they have either read the manual or
>>>> experimented a lot.
>>> To put it bluntly, this is complete balderdash.
>> Not completely.  How does a CLI person know how to do common things
>> like file copying, renaming, moving, etc?
> Try it and see.

If I hadn't been shown, I wouldn't've been able to figure out how to
rename files until I sometime happened to click on a filename by chance
or mistake.

More to the point, how does a CLI person know how to do common things
like removing all and only those object files which have a
corresponding source file?

	ls -1 *.c | sed -e 's/.c$/.o/' | xargs rm -f

Hmmm?

Or even...sure, you have "ls -t", and you may have "ls *.hqx" if you
poke around enough.  But look for "ls -t *.hqx"...

This is my major beef with GUIs.  They may help a novice do novice
things sooner.  However, all the novice can learn is to do those same
things faster (eg, keyboard accelerators): there is no more power
available.  Briefly put, it's easier at the low end, but the high end
is a *lot* lower.

>> At least with VMS and Unix you have 'HELP' and 'man' if you forget
>> how to, for example, get confirmations on file deletion.
> Well, you used to.
> % man: Command not found.

*Any* system can be broken.  Don't fault CLIs in general because one
particular CLI-based system has lost an essential support program.

>> shift-ctrl-click-unshift-drag-doubleclick-unctrl-applekey. :-)
> Oh, I don't disagree with that. It's as bad as Emacs' Control Meta
> Cokebottle keys.

No no - Escape Meta Alt Control Shift, doncha know...

					der Mouse

			    mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu
Xref: sparky alt.religion.emacs:401 comp.editors:2139 talk.rumors:978
From: tim@crash.canon.co.uk
Newsgroups: alt.religion.emacs,comp.editors,talk.rumors
Subject: Arsenio Hall uses EMACS (was Re: Do you hate Vanilla Ice?)
Date: 3 Sep 92 07:51:45 GMT
Followup-To: talk.rumors
Organization: me myself and i

In alt.rap, whare@ac.dal.ca reveals:
:
|Me thinks Arsenio doesn't like VI too much. It was actually kind of awkward
|to watch.

Is this true? Arsenio uses emacs? Nah, he's way too cool for that...

Tx. [context free]
--
check my header - travelling hard at the speed of thought
From: dodd@mycenae.cchem (Lawrence R. Dodd)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.emacs
Subject: Re: Subject?
Date: 1 Sep 92 05:57:04
Organization: Dept of Chemical Engineering, UC Berkeley, CA, USA
Reply-To: dodd@mycenae.cchem.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: mycenae.cchem.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: hobbs_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz's message of 22 Aug 92 03:37:31 GMT


>>>>> "Anthony" == Anthony 'the Bard' Hobbs <hobbs_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz>
>>>>> writes:

  Anthony> kate bush is goddess - 

but boy does she have a big nose!
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: rpadawer@utkvx2.utk.edu (Padawer, Justin Randall)
Subject: XENU, XEMU, XEFU, CQ, CQ, CQ
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Tennessee Computing Center
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 22:23:00 GMT

CQ CQ CQ, XENU, XEMU, XEFU

:: lil Scientology and ham radio joke ::


Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: decot@cup.hp.com (Dave Decot)
Subject: I'll give that to you again...
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 00:23:08 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Cupertino, CA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3


Has everybody gone exterior, or what?

When in doubt, commmunicate!

Thanks,

Dave
From: menees@utkvx2.utk.edu (Menees, Bill)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Electra?  Are you still around?
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:58:00 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee Computing Center
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


	I'm back with a VAX account here at school, and I haven't been able to
use USENET all summer.  But I see now that there hasn't been much traffic here.
I am wondering though if Electra has posted anything new recently.  If so I
would like to get it.  I know there were no new posts for many months last
semester, and I just hope the Cof$ didn't "shut him down".  That would piss me
off.  Well, if anyone knows if he/she is okay I would appreciate a note.

Thanks!
Bill Menees
From: patricka@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Patrick Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Sciontology limerick
Keywords: Areopagus,Millhouse Gate,Insecticide
Date: 27 Aug 92 00:16:00 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


"If they knew Xenu
 like I know they knew.
 I'd never have to work again." - El Ron
 
This message brought to you by the Miller Brewing Co.
 
"Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee..." - Randolph Churchill
From: burgoyne@access.digex.com (J. Robert Burgoyne)
Newsgroups: alt.national.enquirer
Subject: Anyone read the classifieds in the NE?
Keywords: National Enquirer Classified advertising
Date: 31 Aug 92 05:07:47 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA

Hi everyone:

A few questions, if you don't mind.

Do you read the classifieds of the National Enquirer?

What are you looking for? Did you find anything interesting?

Have you ever called a 1-900 number advertised in the NE? 
(No doubt someone will flame me: Would I tell you if I did?)

Thanks, and best regards,

Robert Burgoyne
Newsgroups: alt.national.enquirer
From: hoffberg@phebos.aps.anl.gov (Mike G. Hoffberg)
Subject: Re: Anyone read the classifieds in the NE?
Summary: I will answer your questions
Keywords: National Enquirer Classified advertising, advice
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory, Chicago Illinois
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:20:08 GMT

*********************************************************************
*                   Need questions answered?                        *
*             Having trouble with your love life?                   *
*           Wondering what your lucky numbers are?                  *
*                                                                   *
* Send me a small donation,                                         *
* and I will gaurantee and Ivy League answer.                       *
*********************************************************************

MIKE
-- 
Michael Hoffberg               /.\ <Build APS>    "Jeez, am I the only  ~\   /~
hoffberg@phepbos.aps.anl.gov  // \\ Argonne        one who paid full      \ / 
hoffberg@anlaps.aps.anl.gov  //_O_\\ National      price?" F.F.            | 
Zippy was here              /__| |__\ Lab                  Obbyn! Obbyn!  _|_
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
From: cbrooks@ms.uky.edu (Clayton Brooks)
Subject: Re: Radio Station
    <1992Aug26.064506.5580@hubcap.clemson.edu> 
    <1992Aug26.070350.6265@hubcap.clemson.edu>
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 01:26:29 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

In article <1992Aug26.070350.6265@hubcap.clemson.edu> trev@hubcap.clemson.edu (Trevor Bauknight) writes:
>But then, Maysville, KY is a heck of a long way from Pennington Gap, VA.
>Maybe all the public stations in KY are like this...

Public radio stations in KY tend to be affiliated one university or another,
usually a regional one.

Example: I can travel from Lexington to Nashville and listen to Western 
Kentucky Public Radio all the way by switching from one transmitter to 
another (travelling Blue Grass Parkway then I-65).

I think you can do the same with EasternKPR on I-75 south of Lex.

Can't help you with Maysville, not a Ky native.
Now, West Virginia Public Radio is the same all over the state.
Very nice for you tourists who come to spend lots of money (hint, hint).

-- 
 Clayton T. Brooks       _,,-^`--.   From the heart          cbrooks@ms.uky.edu
 722 POT U o'Ky    .__,-'    *    \   of the blue           cbrooks@ukma.bitnet
 Lex. KY 40506   _/              ,/    grass and   {rutgers,uunet}!ukma!cbrooks
 606-257-6807   (__,-----------''   bourbon country    AMA NMA MAA AMS ACBL DoD
From: lbryant@AFIT.AF.MIL (Lee N. Bryant)
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: Radio Station
Date: 25 Aug 92 20:40:27 GMT
Organization: Air Force Institue of Technology, WPAFB OH

Howdy
    Last year I was traveling through Maysville, Ky when I picked up
a great radio station.  This staion played the best down home bluegrass
and country music I had ever heard.  The greatest thing about the music 
they played was that most of it was local bands, or sounded just like it.
Every now and then they would play hit country song.  The announcers 
sounded like common folk, and when they talked it was about local stuff
(There is a flea market in town, etc).  It was a public station, and I think 
it was in Ohio.  The frequency was 88.7, if I remember correctly.  Has
anyone ever heard this station?  I sure wish I could pick it up here,
but I plan on tuning it in whenever I get near Maysville.
     Along the lines of phrases from appalachia.  My mother has a phrase
to say she is doing nothing special.  When asked what have you been doing,
she says,"Same old 6 and 7".
 
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
From: gmclucki@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Gemma McLuckie)
Subject: Re: Quilting Survey
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 20:41:59 GMT

In article <92240.154151AQMPH@ASUACAD.BITNET> AQMPH@ASUACAD.BITNET writes:
>The barriers these women face (both personal and via bureaucracy) are
>amazing and unfortunate because this could be a significant source of income
>for women and families who live in isolated areas where the economic
>opportunities are very limited.
>
>
>When the survey results are completed (within the next month or two) I'll
>post them.

>Mary

Mary,

I'll hold you to your promise to post the results of the quilting marketing 
survey. Please do!

Gemma McLuckie
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 14:05:48 -0400 
From: Dale.James@cs.cmu.edu
Subject: Re: Matewan

"Storming Heaven" is a wonderful novel by Denise Giardinia.  I'm not certain
(I don't have the book here at the office), but I think she grew up in Southern
West Virginia, perhaps around Milton.

The novel does not deal with the Matewan coal wars, but some other coal war
further south (I think).

They used a lot of locals in filming "Matewan".  I grew up in Gassaway, WV
(near the center of the state), and my sister's boyfriend at the time (they
were in high school) got a bit role in the film.  Not a speaking part, mind
you, but most of those were locals too, I believe.
As I understand it, most of what was depicted in "Matewan" is fairly accurate.
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian