HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: casey@well.sf.ca.us (Kathleen Creighton)
Subject: Re: BofA reverses BSA stand
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Distribution: ba
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 01:40:46 GMT


Somebody at BofA is asleep at the switch.  BSA was supposed to stop
discriminating against gay scouts (or anyone, actually) in January 1984
when Curran v. BSA was denied review before the California Supreme Court.
It's a very complicated story but BSA was granted another trial in Curran,
which was held in 1991 finally (!).  Curran lost in Superior Court (LA
County), but it's gone to the Court of Appeal again.  The Court is awaiting
transcripts from the 1991 trial--no one knows why they haven't been done.
No matter--technically, BSA is supposed to be living up to Curran in
any event.  Curran's loss in Superior Court was due to a judge's rather
creative and *wrong* interpretation of the law, so it's expected to be
overturned.

I am just as bothered by BSA's denial of membership to atheists.  According
to the attorney who did all of this research for us on the WELL (and who
did a computer search but ended up calling Curran's attorney for the real
story), the atheist twins won against BSA in Orange County Superior Court.
BSA is appealing to the Court of Appeal and requested an injunction against
the boys joining the Cub Scouts until the issue was settled.  The Court
of Appeal refused to issue one and the boys are in Cub Scouts in Orange
County under a court order.

I think most people have some feelings about "freedom of association"--we've
all belonged to organizations which get their unique flavor by being
organizations of like-minded individuals.  Mostly we have to get over this,
but I think as a result there's a tiny bit of sympathy for BSA (and I do
mean *tiny*).  However, the California courts have found that BSA is
a "business establishment" under the Unruh Act and may not discriminate in
membership (this has nothing to do with employment).

What pushed me way over the edge about BSA (and the reason I will close my
20-year-old BofA account) is their tenacity in fighting *kids* to the
death in order to exclude them from membership in an organization which
welcomes their peers is unconscionable.  At its heart, or at least in its
legal department, BSA is an inappropriate model for boys.
From:  (Craig Webb)
Newsgroups: ba.motss
Subject: Re: Oregon
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:23:14 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

Ouch.
Perhaps my anger regarding Oregon was rather abundant, it's surplus
landing in this jaded and divisive smoking thing.

Please, don't take it personally, or worse, misinterpret.

I don't read soc.motss either.  Don't feel right about posting to ba.politics.
ba.motss seemed appropriate for this type of discussion, irregardless of
possible postings elsewhere.  I had assumed it had, but felt  a void here,
finding the smoking thing somewhat offensive myself, given the serious threat
posed to our lifestyles.  My intent was to shift gears, not to offend anyone.

Oh, and Steve, I prefer "stomp on" (no f*** y** meant at all).


\aliscafo/
Newsgroups: ba.motss
From: max@queernet.org (Max J. Rochlin)
Subject: Re: Oregon
Organization: QueerNet
Distribution: ca
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 16:30:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.142314.13630@pcnntp.apple.com> (Craig Webb) writes:
>
>I don't read soc.motss either.  Don't feel right about posting to ba.politics.
>ba.motss seemed appropriate for this type of discussion, irregardless of
>possible postings elsewhere.  

Then don't waste the time of people posting OREGON articles to a BAY AREA
newsgroup.

Also, irregardless isn't a word.

...Max

-- 
|  max@queernet.org  |   Max J. Rochlin   |  {uunet,mips,decwrl}!unpc!max  |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|      If everything is coming your way then you're in the wrong lane.     |
Newsgroups: ba.motss
From: AS.ALH@forsythe.stanford.edu (andrew harker)
Subject: Re: BofA reverses BSA stand
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: ba
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:01:42 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.163408.28782@queernet.org>,
max@queernet.org (Max J. Rochlin) writes:
>
>In general, though, Banks have no interest in principle. (Money talks).
>
What a wonderfully ironic sentence (if you change the -ple to -pal).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
andrew harker                 "Some people try to muster a smile
financial analyst              in the face of adversity.  You
office of gov't rate analysis  laugh hysterically and draw up a
Stanford University            guest list."
(415) 723-8072
ANDREW.HARKER@FORSYTHE.STANFORD.EDU
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: ba.motss
From: kelly@igor.tamri.com (Kelly Kittell)
Subject: Gay and Lesbian Sierra Club
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA
Distribution: ba
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 17:53:45 GMT


Hello!

I'm interested in joining the Gay and Lesbian Sierra Club
chapter in San Francisco. Can one of you send me some information?

I know practically zilch about the club so any help, info, personal
anecdotes, and so on will be appreciated.

Kelly

kelly@igor.tamri.com

-- 
_____________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: ba.motss
From: carty@vnet.ibm.com (Jeff Carty)
Subject: B of A reverses stand on Boy Scouts (REPOST)
Organization: IBM PSP Palo Alto, Ca.
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 23:52:24 GMT

| Sorry; previous post this AM may have died, hope this one gets out.

Probably many of you have heard, but just in case, I thought I would
summarize this article from today's S.F. Chronicle.

Bank of America has decided to resume donations to Boy Scouts of America.
They deny that this had anything to do with public (Republican) pressure.
BofA spokesperson Peter Magnini is quoted to the effect that BSA talked
to BofA and convinced BofA that while BSA discriminates against gay
scout leaders, they do not discriminate against gay children (members)
and are open to all boys who suscribe to the Scout oath.  "Our understanding
is that scouting is open to all boys - including gay boys" said Magnani.

This was contradicted by BSA spokesman Blake Lewis, who, according to
the article, stated that the phrase "morally straight" in the Scout oath
specifically means "not homosexual", and that gay youths are "not eligible"
to be Scouts.  Representatives of Wells Fargo Bank and Levi Strauss
company also disputed Bank of America's claim about BSA being open to
gay children, and said that their respective companies have no intention of
emulating BofA's reversal.  Mary Gross, Levi Strauss spokesperson,
is quoted as saying "[BSA wrote us that] 'The Boy Scouts of America
does not accept homosexuals as members or leaders'."

Ken McPherson, spokesman for Forgotten Scouts, is quoted speculating that
B of A is letting itself be duped by BSA.

[Ed:  It sounds to me as if BofA has indeed been duped, if only by its own
wishful thinking and desire to escape controversy, and that it could still
be convinced of the truth (which is that (a) BSA does discriminate, but
regardless, (b) BSA's real crime IMHO is is that it promotes general
intolerance of, and self-hatred among, gay youth, making it a negative and
undesirable organization to support with BofA customer money).
I'd suggest writing BofA letters that are rational and at least somewhat
polite (vs.  hate mail).  Could someone please re-post the appropriate
addresses.]

Jeff
From:  (Craig Webb)
Newsgroups: ba.motss
Subject: Northern Exposure
Date: 17 Aug 92 14:56:14 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc

Don't you people have anything better to do than discuss your
being irritated because your clothing smells of smoke upon
returning from a bar?  Jeepers.  Why isin't there a non-smoking
bar here?  I don't know and don't care.  It's things like the
following that irritate me.  Doesn't it you?
Smelling cigarette smoke in your clothes.  Come On!

WILSONVILLE, OREGON-
Using videos from gay pride marches and a children's book called 
"Heather Has Two Mommies" to stir the electorate, a conservative
political group has forced a referendum on the strongest anti-gay
measure ever considered by a state.  
The proposal, which would CLASSIFY being gay as "ABNORMAL, WRONG,
UNNATURAL and PERVERSE" and ALLOW DISCRIMINATION against gays in
Oregon, is part of a burgeoning backlash in the West against gays
and a theme that has flared, in a much less defined way, in the 
presidential campaign.
In November, voters in Oregon and Colorado will decide on citizen-
initiated measures that would remove legal protection for gay people.
But Oregon's initiative is far more extreme.  It would require the
state government to actively discourage being gay, teaching that it
is a MORAL OFFENSE, similar to pedohilia, sadism and masochism.
- STILL UPTIGHT ABOUT CIGARETTE SMOKE PEOPLE? -
"This is what we're fighting against," said Lon (dickhead) Mabon,
waving a copy of a book called "Daddy's Roommate," which is intended 
to describe gay relationships to children.  Dickhead is the director
of the conservative group sponsoring the initiative, Oregon Citizens
Alliance.
"Cultural diversity is the buzzword being used to make homosexuals
full-fledged minorities that require civil rights protection," dickhead
said.  "HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT A CIVIL RIGHT, BUT AN ABERRATION."
Some legal scholars in the state say the measure could be used to 
remove gays from teaching positions and state jobs, and as a basis
to take books from libraries and deny parade permits and liquor licenses.
(Well, you don't have to worry about the smoke no mo')
Experts (?) say that this measure is most likely to pass, it's voters
coming out against gay rights in several recent elections.

Please, enjoy washing your clothes.


\aliscafo/
Newsgroups: ba.motss
From: dgreen@sti.com (Dan R. Greening)
Subject: 8th Int'l Conf. on AIDS: Review and Discussion.  Aug 24, San Jose.
Organization: Software Transformation, Inc.
Distribution: ba
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 01:15:42 GMT


Two local South Bay doctors went to the International Conference on AIDS,
and will discuss their observations.  

  Dr. Dow Covington
  Dr. William Lipil
   
  Monday, August 24
  7:00PM to 9:00PM

  Billy DeFrank Gay and Lesbian Community Center
  175 Stockton
  San Jose, CA  

  For more information:  415-364-6563 or 415-369-1985
-- 
____
\  /Dan Greening    Software Transformation   1601 Saratoga-Sunnyvale Rd, #100
 \/dgreen@sti.com   (408) 973-8081 x313       Cupertino, CA 95014
Newsgroups: ba.motss
From: sgw@boy.com (Steven Warner)
Subject: Re: B of A reverses stand on Boy Scouts
Organization: Beach Systems / RTFM UN*X Solutions, Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Distribution: alt
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:05:10 GMT

Tell Bank of America how you feel about thier decision, weather you
are a customer or not.

Call any BofA customer service telephone number local to you.  The
reps at the service center are keeping track of how many people
call in and what thier viepoint is on this issue.

----
 Steven Warner
 sgw@boy.com   (34W 36L)   " happiness = (reality - expectations) "
Newsgroups: ba.motss
From: AT.PLC@forsythe.stanford.edu (PCURRY (415)723-0730)
Subject: The melody lingers on
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 03:31:43 GMT

Did I mis-remember a melody, or tonight while George, Barbara, and
all the little Bushes were standing on the podium, did the band
jubilantly play over and over a song from "La Cage aux Folles"?
Well, that's family values by my lights.
                                               Phil
Newsgroups: ba.motss
From: dgreen@sti.com (Dan R. Greening)
Subject: Re: Stop Smoking .
Organization: Software Transformation, Inc.
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 01:53:49 GMT

stephen@orchid.UCSC.EDU () wrote: 

>Won't it be great to go to a bar/club where no one
>smoked?  Well go ahead now and give me a lot of shit.

In Santa Fe, there is a gay dance club called "Cargo Club", which disallows
smoking.  Smoking is permitted outside, in their garden area.

It is unbelievably great.  Incredibly great.  Unlike other clubs, I went
to the Cargo Club and danced until closing.  I left feeling wonderful.
I slept well.  My clothes didn't smell like smoke.  These are the advantages
of a smoke-free club, and after experiencing one I now cannot imagine why
such a place does not exist here.

Cargo Club was quite popular.  The music was great.

Smokers commit slow suicide and, if they smoke around others, slow homocide.  

Regards,
-- 
____
\  /Dan Greening    Software Transformation   1601 Saratoga-Sunnyvale Rd, #100
 \/dgreen@sti.com   (408) 973-8081 x313       Cupertino, CA 95014
Newsgroups: ba.motss
Subject: Re: Stop Smoking .
From: pclary@radish.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 21:47:09 GMT
Organization: Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, CA - aka Barnum & Bailey

>In article <16gocoINNbi7@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> stephen@orchid.UCSC.EDU writes:
>>Won't it be great to go to a bar/club where no one
>>smoked?  Well go ahead now and give me a lot of shit.

San Luis Obispo has a city-wide smoking ban in bars and restaurants
that actually works.  Now if they only had a gay bar...

(Ex-San-Luiser)
Ellen

Xref: sparky ba.motss:1402 soc.motss:34897
From: thomas@mips.com (Chris Thomas)
Newsgroups: ba.motss,soc.motss,su.gay,sgi.talk.lavender
Subject: Last call - ba.motss South Bay / Peninsula dinner on 20 Aug
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:25:31 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: MIPS Computer Systems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: twink.mips.com


	When:	Thursday, August 20, 1992
	Where:	Hobee's Cupertino
		Oaks Plaza (Stevens Creek Blvd. at Hwy. 85)
	Time:	7:00 pm (please be prompt)
	RSVPs:	Yes, to me as soon as possible

	We return to one of our favorite dinner spots!  The menu is
	your general California cuisine, with both meat-ful and
	veggie selections available.  Your cost will depend on what
	your order; it will probably be between $8 and $16 (you
	can easily go it "on the cheap", or you can treat yourself
	to the more extravagant dishes).

	I'll send directions when I acknowledge your RSVP.

	Invite a friend... newcomers always welcome!
-- 
Chris Thomas                                                (408) 524-8067
S4/7 b g+ l y+ z+ n+ o+ x-/+ a++ u v-/+ j++                thomas@mips.com
Xref: sparky ba.motss:1455 soc.motss:35868
From: bprofane@netcom.com (Gert Niewahr)
Newsgroups: ba.motss,soc.motss
Subject: U.S. Treasurer in SF
Date: 19 Aug 92 23:14:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)



U.S. Treasurer Catalina Villalpando will be present for a one-time
open house of the San Francisco Mint this weekend.  This was the
same person, I believe, who called Bill Clinton a skirt chaser
earlier this week.  The SF Mint is right in the Castro's back yard
and this seems like an ideal opportunity to get in the face of a
high-level Bush Administration official in the aftermath of the
Rep. Con. gay bashing fest.  You must make reservations by Friday
by calling (415) 744-8752.  

Wouldn't it be a rude shock if each tour party had a few screaming
queers in the mix to liven things up?

For non-SF folks, does this person have a record of homophobia?  Is
she fair game in her own right, let alone as a member of the bash
brigade?
Newsgroups: ba.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Oregon
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Distribution: ca
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 22:57:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.142314.13630@pcnntp.apple.com> (Craig Webb) writes:
>...given the serious threat posed to our lifestyles.

How can you apologize, only to turn around and use the l-word (lifestyles.)
Ick.  :-)  I have a life, not a lifstyle.  OCA is a threat to our lives.

>My intent was to shift gears, not to offend anyone.

ba.motss (and all of USENET) is not a conversation where everyone reads
every article with complete absorption--it's more like a cocktail party
where you wander thru various groups of people chatting until you find
something interesting and hang out with them for a while.  At any point
in time, there are several discussions going on.  You "shift gears" by
posting something new and unrelated to what you find uninteresting.
Unlike a cocktail party, you are not considered insane if you start a
new topic without anyone standing around you to listen.  Like a
cocktail party, you are considered rude if you wander up to a group and
say "How can you possibly be discussing THAT when there are so many
more urgent issues before you?"  (The validity of a comment has nothing
to do with its capacity for rudeness.)

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Xref: sparky ba.motss:1479 soc.motss:36378
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: ba.motss,soc.motss
Subject: Re: Rob Bernardo
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 21:11:44 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Just in case everyone isn't sick of hearing about the group
Hiroshima in this context..... ;-)

I just bought their new album today, which is intriguingly
titled "PROVIDENCE".  The last track is a song called
_One Of Us_, and listening to it, I was strongly reminded
not so much of Rob, but of the outpouring of memories and
love... so, here it is:


ONE OF US
by Hiroshima

Some people say they know
Just how far love should go
They say when it's too much
There's a time to turn away
But 'til the end you've got us all
You're one of us and you are loved.

I could not love you more
If you were my very own
In this new world we'll make
You are where you'll always belong
And for your life and for your trust
We welcome you as one of us.

Darling, you will always be part of the family
You're one of us, you're one of us
Nothing can undo the ties that bind us
You're one of us.
So let the cold winds blow
You're anchored stronger than any storm
We're one for all and all for one of us
And you're one of us.

The way we love you now
Won't change life's ups and downs
But when others let you down
We will never let you go
And even when you're on your own
As one of us, you're not alone.

Darling, you will always be part of the family
You're one of us, you're one of us
Nothing can undo the ties that bind us
You're one of us.
So let the cold winds blow
You're anchored stronger than any storm
We're one for all and all for one of us
And you're one of us.

-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: ba.motss
From: cigno@sgi.com (Kevin Walsh)
Subject: Re: Stop Smoking .
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 19:24:46 GMT

In article <Bt3Kww.3xx@sti.com> coyote@sti.com (Ron Lussier) writes:
...
>Well, you can get some small satisfaction in the fact that people who smoke are
>not only stupid, but will most probably die a slow, lingering death as well.
>(This satisfaction may be offset by the other fact that they are doing this to
>tens of thousands of innocent non-smokers as well...)
>

	Given that we all know people who are dying slow lingering
	deaths, perhaps this observation would have been better left
	unsaid.

--
------
"I've always thought of Boston traffic as Brownian motion with
evil intent."  -- Don Coolidge coolidge@speaker.sgi.com
From:  (Craig Webb)
Newsgroups: ba.motss
Subject: Re: Northern Exposure
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:28:45 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc

In article <g29mnzq.foucault@netcom.com>, foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye) writes:

> You are so right. My unending pursuit of the perfect buffalo caprese
> and pinot grigio, my obsession with baseball and the grand opera and
> my trivial concern with the health effects of smoking have been the result
> of a False Consciousness and a Reactionary Upringing that only now,
> as a result of your Clarion Call, I can discard in the hopes of
> becoming a Pure and Righteously Ascetic Demigod Who Knows What Is
> Important. My wasted hedonistic life is at an end and a New Millenium
> is at hand! 
 
Dear Sir,

With all due respect, please take your pinot grigio and place it where 
you would most enjoy it.  Your personal desires are not important to me.
Issues that endanger our very lives are.  Relative to smoking, your 
consciousness is right on target.  But with so many important issues at
stake, why not avoid the smokey places and channel your intellect into
objectives that can improve the quality of life for all gays and lesbians.

And when you, myself and every gay and lesbian individual in this (free)
country has true freedom to express the love we are blessed and privileged
to feel for one another, then pull out your sour grapes and let's talk.

It's a matter of priorities to the whole.
   
> [long description of Oregon Measure 9 and Colorado Initiative 2
> omitted since it is being extensively discussed in soc.motss and
> elsewhere]
 
So.  Is ba.motss for personal grievance only?

> Thank you, but I have an excellent french laundry that does it
> quite well for me.

Impressive NOT.


\aliscafo/   
Newsgroups: ba.motss
From: casey@well.sf.ca.us (Kathleen Creighton)
Subject: Re: BofA reverses BSA stand
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Distribution: ba
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:01:42 GMT


Why is there reason to believe Wells Fargo won't do the same?
From: mikey@eukanuba.wpd.sgi.com (Mike Yang)
Newsgroups: ba.motss
Subject: Re: B of A reverses stand on Boy Scouts
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:19:43 GMT
Reply-To: mikey@sgi.com
Distribution: alt
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <1992Aug20.160510.23782@boy.com>, sgw@boy.com (Steven Warner) writes:
|> Call any BofA customer service telephone number local to you.  The
|> reps at the service center are keeping track of how many people
|> call in and what thier viepoint is on this issue.

Please do this.  I just called my local rep (415/324-4433) and the
person asked for my position on BSA, and whether I was for or against
reinstatement of contributions.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                 Mike Yang        Silicon Graphics, Inc.
               mikey@sgi.com           415/390-1786
Newsgroups: ba.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Stop Smoking .
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:02:19 GMT

stephen@orchid.UCSC.EDU () wrote: 
->I know I will get flamed etc. for this, but as a 
->(non,never)smoker I really dislike other people
->smoking around me.

you're not the only one.  it's a fact of life, though.

->Won't it be great to go to a bar/club where no one
->smoked?  Well go ahead now and give me a lot of shit.

so when are you opening up such a club?  you know ... something about
putting your money where your cigarette might be ...

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
Newsgroups: ba.motss