From: ian@airs.com (Ian Lance Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: Just an Idea...
Date: 17 Aug 92 04:39:30 GMT

tgt33358@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Deus Imperator) writes:

>	According to him, a creative work should do one of two things.
>It should either tell a story, or carry a message.  In his experience, the
>worst crap he finds is stuff that tries desperately to do both, and fails.
>Only the most skilled and experience can accomplish both, without sounding
>pretentious.

I disagree.  I think only the most incoherent of stories carry no
message at all.  Even X-Force (I haven't read Youngblood) carries
messages, such as ``It's OK to kill your enemies if they tried to kill
you'' and ``Attractive women are very thin.''  I can't even think of
an example of a story with no message.

Those are admittedly pretty trivial messages.  Mainstream comics are
mostly plot-driven, and they tend to provide fairly shallow and
obvious messages.  Far from being a strength (in that they tell a
story rather than a message) I consider that a weakness.  All powerful
and moving fiction carries a strong message.

I also disagree with the above statement in another way.  A work that
carries a message but tells no story might as well be a non-fiction
essay.  If the plot and characters are subordinated to the message,
rather than carrying the message, the result is clunky and absurd.  An
obvious example here is _Atlas_Shrugged_.

A work which tries to tell a story, and fails, is just bad.  A work
which tries to provide a message, and fails, is incoherent.  A work
which tries to tell a story without a message is trite.  A work which
tries to tell a message without a story is a tract.

>	As I was reading Shadowhawk, and remarking how bad it seemed, I
>began to think of this.  Leifield is simply trying to tell a story, without
>the "deep" message found in most Marvel titles.  (Mutant hatred, the angst
>of life, and the responsibility of power are just a few examples).  

As you indicate by the scare quotes, these messages are not deep at
all.  In fact, they are simplistic.  I think that what is bothering
you about them (at least, what bothers me about them) is that often
the plot is set up to provide the message, rather than appearing to
flow naturally from events and characters.  Clunky.  It's perfectly
possible to tell good (though not, perhaps, great) stories with each
of the above messages, and you don't even have to be a great writer.
Mutant hatred: the New Mutants issue in which Kitty goes to a party;
angst of life: Starlin's first run on Warlock, in which Warlock kills
himself; responsibility of power: Amazing Fantasy #15.

>That's what the Image people are trying to do.  No major 300 issue experiments.
>No grand 12 issue opus with a ticking clock on the cover.  Just a kind of
>slice of life, with the exception of superpowers being present.  Looking
>at the Image titles in this light, they're not half bad.  Except for 
>Youngblood, that is.

The only Image title I've read is Spawn (I like McFarlane's over the
top art style).  It is not in the least a slice of life; at least, the
people in it don't act like any people I know.  It also provides
plenty of messages, though, so far, not too much story.
-- 
Ian Lance Taylor                ian@airs.com                uunet!airs!ian
First person to identify this quote wins a free e-mail message:
``I would prefer my life to contain more hours of pain, if that means
  that none of this pain is still to come.''
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics