From: U52148@uicvm.uic.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Re: History of BiH Re: Who was in 'power'
Date: 17 Nov 92 15:51:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: uicvm.92322.095150U52148
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

In article <BxuztF.EF0@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, brg6080@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Rasputin)
says:
>
>Crow's source for his B-H 'history' is a book called
>'Croatia: Land, People, Culture'.
>
>It turns out this book is fanatically pro-Croatian, which puts
>into doubt any objectivity it may claim to have.
>
>A very short list:
>-it calls Pavelic an 'outstanding political leader' (written in 1964),
>-says the Muslims in B-H are really Croatian,
>-says the Orthodox in Croatia are not really Serbs,
>-says the Croatians learned to use 'vulgar expressions' after
> WW I, and they learned this from the 'neighboring countries
> to the east' (i.e., Serbia)
>
>Here are the relevant quotes from the book
>(my comments are in brackets[]):
>--------------------------------------------
>Vol. 1, p. 196, note 7:
>
>``It is interesting to note here that two books have recently
>been written by outstanding Croatian political leaders, both
>living in exile.  The titles of these two books are almost identical,
>but the contents of each is written in a different spirit.
>
>[One paragraph discusses a book by Vladko Macek.]
>
>``Dr. Ante Pavelic (d. 1960), the founder and leader of the Ustasha
>Movement among the Croatians, was of the view that the injustice and
>violence that the Croatians suffered at the hands of the Serbs should
>be retaliated against by force.  He founded the Croatian Liberation
>Movement among the Croatian emigres after the last war.  The purpose
>of this organization is the same as was that of the Ustasha Movement...
>Dr. Pavelic's successor is Dr. Stjepan Hefer, a rather moderate
>and well-educated man.  Hefer's book, which reflects current ideas
>and attitudes among the members of the C.L.M....''
>
>[This was written in 1964.  For those who don't know,
>Pavelic was the Croatian equivalent of Hitler during WWII.
>His Ustasha Movement out-Nazi'd the Nazis.]
>--------------------------------------------
>[There are many quotes that state or imply that Bosnia
>is really Croatian land and Bosnians are really Croatians.
>Here are a few.]
>
>Vol. 1, p. 98
>
>``In the days of the national rulers, `Croatia' meant all
>the land from the Adriatic inland as far as the Drava and the Drina.''
>
>Vol. 1, p. 203
>
>``The struggles between Croatians of the Catholic faith and those
>of the Moslem faith lasted for four centuries.''
>--------------------------------------------
>[Orthodox in Croatia are not really Serbs:]
>
>Vol. 1, p. 204
>
>``The Orthodox who fled from the Turks, or who were brought into
>Croatia by the Turks, lived in peace with the older native inhabitants
>until the last century.  Then active propaganda from Belgrade was
>started among them, and it was said that they were Serbs because
>they shared the same religion as the residents of Serbia; their
>loyalty, therefore, was not to their native land of Croatia, but to
>Serbia (where religion and nation have been identified, to the detriment
>of the former).  The propaganda was successful.''
>
>[In the same paragraph:]
>
>``First the Hungarians and then the Austrians heaped privileges
>on the Orthodox.''
>
>[That was one of the rationales for slaughtering Serbs:
>they're not Serbs, they're schismatic Croats.]
>--------------------------------------------
>[Croats didn't swear, until taught recently by the Serbs:]
>
>Vol. 1, p. 217
>
>``A vice almost unknown in Croatia before this century, which has
>spread throughout the country between the world wars, is that of
>the use of vulgar expressions.  These originated in, and continue
>to come from, the neighboring countries to the east of Croatia.
>This vice is definitely a degrading one with respect to the cultural
>level of the nation and to the dignity of its citizens.''
>--------------------------------------------
>
><U52148@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>
>>Hello all,
>
>>I decided to clear up some of the historical facts about BiH.
>>I will give my sources, something none of the other "historians" did.
>
>>Let's go into the political/historical first.
>
>>This is from Croatia: Land, People, Culture (Vol II) "The Etnic and Religious
>>History of BiH"
>
><deleted>
>
>>Just prior to the Turkish conquest, the population of Bosnia and Hercegovina
>>had the following religious and ethnic make up: about 750,000 Croatian
>>Catholics; 80,000-90,000 Croatians adhering to Bogumilism; 12,000-15,000
>>non-slavic Vlachs; and 25,000-28,000 Serbs. (pg 367)
>
>It is certainly amazing that the author(s) were able to obtain
>such accurate statistics from this period (14th-15th c.).
>
><deleted>
>>In view of these facts, were the "Bosnians" aware of their TRUE ethnic
>>background? Yes.
>
>I'm sure the Bosnian Muslims will be thrilled to learn that they're
>really Croats.
>
><deleted>
>>There you have it. I hope the Bosnians can appreciate their Croatian
>>heritage.
>
>>-Cro
>
>Crow, next time quote a real book.
>
>
>--Branko

Well Rasputin, I'm glad to see that you can read, as well as look up things.
The book gives its sources, so you needn't worry about the accuracy of the
readings. If you know what a real history book looks like, then DON'T
hesitate to let me know.

-Cro...At least I give my sources...