HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pederson@wings.watson.ibm.com (Beverley Pederson)
Subject: Thanks
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 16:04:00 GMT
Reply-To: pederson@wings.watson.ibm.com (Beverley Pederson)
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research


Edward -

There us a good research/evaluation/education center in San Francisco,
a bit of a trip from San Jose, but we have found its important to
establish a relationship with a major center involved in autism
research.  Once they have evaluated your child and know his needs,
the research center is invaluable for referring you to the right
professionals closer to home.  It's important to find a center
with professionals whose judgement you trust and whose direction
you agree with.

I recommend you contact Dr. Bryna Siegel who is director of the
PDD clinic at Langley Porter Psychiatric Inst., Box CAS, Univ. of
California, 401 Parnasus Ave, San Francisco 94143.  She has
given us good advice in the past.  In fact, she referred us to
the Yale Child Study Center, which we now use for evals and
referrals, because it was closer to our home.

Good luck.

Beverley Pederson

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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:21:00 EST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Lisa S Lewis <LISAS@PUCC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Toilet Training

While it's certainly true that *many* autistic children have trouble with
toileting, and most train very late, don't get psyched out about it. Not
all kids have problems.  When we tried to train Sam we had very little
success, but at his school they accomplished the deed in a very short time.
Once he was reliably trained at school we got him on the same schedule at
home.

At first it was a matter of putting him on the toilet at regular intervals,
but within a very few weeks Sam was telling us when he needed to go.  And
though he trained later than the average child (he was 3 1/2) he had very few
accidents.  Also, his training happened just prior to the birth of his
younger brother; I expected regression but we never got any.  In fact, he
was very amused by how "yucky" his brother diapers were (are) and still
delights in the fact that Jake has to wear diapers and he doesn't.

So you never know.  I would guess that if a child manages other "self-help"
activities (such as tooth brushing) without too much fuss, he may do better
than you expect with toileting.  It also helps if the child doesn't like
being wet/dirty, but of course there's no way to control that.

Lisa

P.S. Today, at 4 1/2, Sam still insists on "company" for most trips to the
bathroom.  He doesn't need the help, but likes to have us along anyway.
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:11:57 +1100
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         LNCJB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU
Subject:      Did anyone else notice?

Congratulations Lauren and Dan .... and when was the 'big day'?
Of course, I'm assuming that since Lauren has changed her name,
it has already occurred. Dan how did you cope with the social
aspects of the day?

Carolyn
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 20:31:59 CST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Jim Sinclair <GOLEM@UKANVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Autistic Variants.

Rosanne,

I found a couple of things.  I'm sure I have more somewhere, but this is
a start:

David W. Hung, "Using self-stimulation as reinforcement for autistic
children," _Journal of Autism and Childhood Schizophrenia_, 8(3), 1978,
355-366.

Patricia N. Chock and T. J. Glahn, "Learning and self-stimulation in mute
and echolalic autistic children," _Journal of Autism and Developmental
Disorders_, 13(4), 1983, 365-381.

I also found several references to a connection between fluorescent lighting
and self-stimulation.

JS
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 12:50:20 EST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Lisa S Lewis <LISAS@PUCC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: More Autistic Variants Stuff

On Mon, 25 Jan 1993 11:20:04 CST Jim Sinclair said:
>On Sun, 24 Jan 1993 01:27:00 GMT Sternberg, James said:
>>I am looking forward to more.  One thing is still extremely unclear to me
>>however.  What is the relationship between autisic-continuum disorders, SID,
>>and PPD?  I beg that your response does not contain the word "vestibular" :).
>
>It's PDD: Pervasive Developmental Disorder.  That's the category autism
>is listed under in DSM-III-R (the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the
>American Psychiatric Association).  Autism or Autistic Disorder is the most
>extreme form of PDD.  SID is a symptom that is often (but not always)
>present in people with pervasive developmental disorders, including autism,
>but may also occur in people who don't have PDD.
>
>JS

I have heard that the DSM IV (due out in February) will be doing away with
PDD NOS and presenting autism in the form of a continuum.  I was told that
it would be categorized from "borderline" through "profound" though I'm
not sure about how many categories will fall in between. I assume that lots
of people who are now called PDD NOS will fall into the borderline, and some
within the next level (probably "mild autism" or something like that.)
Lisa
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:57:23 CST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Jim Sinclair <GOLEM@UKANVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: A Little Help From My Friends
              20 Jan 1993 01:14:14 GMT from <jbadner@WORLD.STD.COM>

On Wed, 20 Jan 1993 01:14:14 GMT JA Badner said:
>This reminds me of an incident that happened when I was visiting my
>family for Xmas.  My nonautistic 4 year old niece, Becca, has a
>friend, Brian, who lives next door to my mother.  On Xmas day when
>Becca and Abby, my autistic 6 year old niece, came over, they were
>invited to Brian's house.  Both wanted me to come with them (both
>wanted me to do everything with them that day :-)).  However, while
>we were there, Abby spent the whole time with me and didn't interact
>with Brian or Becca but was very excited about being at Brian's house.
>It is hard to say if Abby really wanted to play with Becca and Brian
>but she was definitely more excited being with me at Brian's house
>than she was being with me at my mother's house.  Brian tried to
>play with her but didn't have the patience to wait for her to
>adjust to him.

I'm having a rather involved discussion elsewhere about "contact".
Basically, it can be much more intense and more complex (and, at least
for me, have much more depth once I finally learn how to do it) for
autistic people.  For Abby, being at Brian's house may have been enough
Brian-contact for now.  Maybe she would have played if he'd had the
patience to wait for her to adjust, or maybe she didn't want to play with
him, it was enough just to be at his house.  The fact that she didn't
interact doesn't mean it wasn't a meaningful experience for her, or that
she won't be more interactive if she goes back to Brian's house another
time.  It's also possible that she wasn't particularly interested in
Brian at all, either in terms of playing with him or of being in his
space, but was focused on being with *you* in a place where she hadn't
been with you before.  Finding out that Aunt Judy is always Aunt Judy no
matter where you see her is also an important and exciting discovery.

Here's another quote from Donna's book.  It's also in the epilogue, the
paragraph immediately preceding the one I quoted about abuse earlier
today: "Allowing me my privacy and space was the most beneficial thing I
ever got.  As much as many of the things I did were dangerous and as much
as people could sense my isolation, this isolation was not from being
left to my own devices.  It stemmed from the isolation of my inner world
and *only the unthreatening nature of privacy and space would inspire
the courage to explore the world and get out of my world under glass
step by step.*"  (Emphasis added)

A child who watches but doesn't interact, or who stays around people for
a while and then abruptly leaves, or who goes to new places but then
appears indifferent to what normal people think are the salient features
of being in those places, may be exploring steps that most people just
jump over without noticing.  Let her explore.  Someday she may even lead
you to places you never imagined exist.

JS
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:42:28 -0500
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         "STEVEN T. HARDY--GALLAUDET UNIVERSITY" <12SHARDY@GALLUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Autistic Variants.

Just wondering if anyone has any infomation and/or contacts on S.I. being used
with deaf and hard of hearing children.......if so pls contact me


Steve
*******************************************************************************
*******************************************************************************
Steven Thomas Hardy                     Was mich nicht umbringt,
12SHARDY@GALLUA.BITNET                     macht mich starker
School Psychology Program
Gallaudet University
800 Florida Ave, NE                     202/651-5540 v/t
Washington DC 20002                     202/651-5747 fax
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:45:33 EST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         LRUBLE@UCS.INDIANA.EDU
Subject:      RE: Toilet Training

About toilet training and statistics on age of training.  An article was
published in Journal of Autism and Developmental Disabilities last year
about the subject.  Also, a reprint can be requested from the author,
Nancy Dalrymple, at:  The Indiana Resource Center for Autism
                      Institute for the Study of Developmental Disabilities
                      2853 E. 10th Street
                      Bloomington, IN 47401

The study surveyed 100 parents of children with autism.

Lisa Ruble
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 22:09:44 -0500
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         FARBER_R@SPCVXA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Autistic Variants.

That's always been a concern of mine should self stim. behavior
always be eliminated ? Or is it a child's way of integrating
his senses.Rosanne
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:37:16 -0600
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         "Lynda W. Huggins" <HUGGINS@MERLIN.NLU.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Case registers

Bernard Rimland, Ph.D.
Autism Research Institute
4182 Adams Avenue
San Diego, CA 92116

Dr. Rimland has the largest database of information on persons with autism
in the United States.

Lynda in Louisiana
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:31:55 CST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Jim Sinclair <GOLEM@UKANVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Abuse

On Thu, 14 Jan 1993 14:27:00 EST Speed Bump said:
>        Just because of the innate tendency of human beings to grow through
>adversity, it's going to be awfully difficult to come up with an extended
>experience in anyone's life that was totally and completely bad and had
>absolutely no good effect whatsoever.  I suspect that it's similarly difficult
>to come up with an extended *good* experience that is entirely devoid of
>*bad* effects.
>        This doesn't mean that I think we ought to deliberately put people
>through horrible experiences so that they might benefit from the few gems
>that might be distilled from them; Paul the Apostle puts it quite well in the
>sixth chapter of his letter to the Romans when he says, "What shall we say
>then?  Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?  God forbid!"
>        But I firmly feel that modern pop psychology is dead wrong in its
>insistence that bad past experiences need to be dealt with and then
>be eliminated forever.  There are useful things to learn from just about
>*any* experience, even if it's just something like how hard a kidney
>punch you can take without grimacing.  In its headlong rush to *be* happy
>and well-adjusted, modern society is busily ignoring most of what it takes
>to *become* happy and well-adjusted, I think.

Dan, I'm with you for the first two paragraphs, but you lost me on that
last sentence.  If you're saying that a person can be happy and well-adjusted
despite having gone through negative experiences, and can turn those
negative experiences into learning experiences, then I agree.  But are you
saying *abuse* is part of what it takes to become happy and well-adjusted?!?

As for what Donna says, I was reading over it again and found this in the
epilogue (I have the English edition--is this part included in the American
one?): "Most important, I didn't need to be loved to death, but at the
same time I'd never recommend violence (which I see as quite different
from punishment).  My problems thrived on violence which told me I was
safe and no-one could get close to me.  The degree of violence required to
actually change my behaviour constituted serious and dangerous abuse.
This causes damage to the abuser, who is the very person the child needs
if it ever `comes out'.  I could therefore never recommend it.  Nevertheless,
if love won't work, try persistent, detached, non-violent war."

Lisa, Serge, does that help any?

JS
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 19:03:00 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Kathryn Irene Snyder <IRENES@UNC.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Ethics

The question of what is or is not ethical is one that folks have been
arguing about roughly since Socrates, and there doesn't seem to be much
of a consensus yet. We had a rather heated argument in a meeting here
a few months back about ethics committees and review boards. One
researcher (a grad student) was protesting the inefficiency of the revie
w process, saying that they get so many proposals to review that they
cannot conceivably do more than skim each one, and his proposal (he
wants to do research on pain, although I don't know more than that) was
likely to get summarily shot down because it sounded unpleasant. How
are the review boards more qualified to judge the relevance and ethical
virtues of his research than he is, who has spent months or years
thinking about this sort of problem and working on related projects at
other institutions (there are to my knowledge no faculty here really
working on pain as such.) He feels quite emphatically that this is
legitimate research, that will contribute usefully to the field, and
thinks that the review board will disagree with him because they don't
know the field.
I don't know if he ever did submit his proposal, or what happened to it
after that, but it was an interesting problem. What makes the review
board all knowing on matters of ethics?
Just my nickel's worth, (I'm feeling generous today,)
Irene Snyder
irenes@unc.bitnet
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 08:14:37 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         PCABE@PEMBVAX1.PEMBROKE.EDU
Subject: Re: CowPlop Fans

Hey Stephanie,
You might be interested to learn the ENZONE is a prescription hemorrhoid
medication.
Pat Cabe
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 10:12:00 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Kathryn Irene Snyder <IRENES@UNC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: More on Bathroom behavior studies. (try again)

I'd like to see a description of inhibitory effects of the experiment
on the confederate. Poor guy!
The mores against public elimination I think are stronger for women
than for men, which is why virtually every women's bathroom has separate
stalls, with locking doors. I have seen women stand in long lines rather
than use a stall without a door, or one that cannot be firmly closed.
Which, by the by, is I think one reason that woment tend to go to the
bathroom in groups...if the stall door won't stay shut, you get your
girl friend to hold it for you. That's all.

For an example of the mores, ever been hospitalized or otherwise bedridd
en and tried to use a bedpan? Hateful!!
Irene Snyder
irenes@unc.bitnet
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:41:00 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Kathryn Irene Snyder <IRENES@UNC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Corn-ventions

> Hey kiddies,
>
> Is anyone planning on going to MPA or APS this April & June, respectively?
>
> I am, and am wondering who else is!
> Todd D. Nelson

I'm thinking about it. It's in DC, yes? How much is student registration
?
Irene Snyder
irenes@unc.bitnet
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:47:48 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Tim Tumlin <UFTRT@NERVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: CowPlop Fans
              27 Jan 1993 16:22:06 -0500 from <joppa@PSYCH.PURDUE.EDU>

Take it easy, Margaret. That's how we men get in touch with the inner
child. Except for the farting, that has a sociobiological explanation
that Tammy will want to hear about, I'm sure.
Tim
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Date:         Sun, 24 Jan 1993 14:01:00 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "Todd.Nelson" <22817MGR@MSU.BITNET>
Subject:      prisoner study

Barry,

I think you're referring to the classic Social Psychology experiment by
Zimbardo, not Milgram.

(Zimbardo, P. G., Banks, W. C., Haney, C., & Jaffe, D. (1973). The mind is a
     formidable jailer: A Pirandellian prison. NEW YORK TIMES MAGAZINE, pp.
     38-60.)

also, see:

Zimbardo, P. G. (1972). On the ethics of intervention in human psychological
      research: With special reference to the Stanford prison experiment.
      COGNITION, 2, 243-256.


Best,
Todd D. Nelson
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 12:12:11 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Todd D Nelson <nelsont1@STUDENT.MSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Ethics
              Zikopoulos" at Jan 28, 93 10:17 am

Steven writes,
>
> Well...as part of the future of North American Psychology you have
> identified a problem with the 'system'.  I agree that the p or p
> system (guess we can't get out of an Industrial Model of efficiency,
> success, etc.) causes problems.  That is, if we care enough about the
> "quality" of the research we do.
>
> When DO we start balming individuals?

BALMING individuals? as in EMbalming? ha,ha.

  We have to at some point if you
> or I want the 'system' to change for the "better" (assuming we know or
> have some vague sense of what a better system would be like).
>
> Any thoughts on what researach SHOULD be for and about? Given that
> some of us feel that p or p causes problems; what can we do to change
> it?  Are there enough grad students in Pychology who want to actively
> try and shape the future of North American psychology? (a tad
> grandiose perhaps but who cares?)  Perhaps most
> of us are content with our "apprenticeships" and the education we
> receive from it?

I'm feeling a bit apathetic today. I don't feel like changing the world
right now, how bout tomorrow? (..... Besides, there's a good movie on tv. now)

> > I'll stop babbling now.  It was a relief to see a posting that didn't
> contain athletic skatological discourse.

I'll second that!

>
> Steven Zikopoulos
> Carleton University
>


Todd Nelson
Michigan State University
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 10:40:47 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         JROTENB@SBU.EDU
Organization: Saint Bonaventure University
Subject:      CowPlop Fans

    This may not be the most academic subject ever written for this
discussion group, but it is very timely this week.
    I am sick and tired of all these bandwagon, pseudo fans that come
out of the woodwork as soon as the Cowboys get good again.  Where
were you all when the supposed Americas Team was 2 - 14 ?
    Being a Bills fan, I am proud of the support that Jim Kelly and
the rest of the Bills receive here in western New York.
    The latest betting line of 7 points in favor of the Cowboys is an
example of the lack of respect Buffalo, and for that matter the whole
AFC receives.  Writers ignore the fact that Buffalo went 4 - 0 vs.
NFC opponents this year alone.  Just remember who is the real
Americas Team : The team with the colors red, white and blue.

                                 No Huddingly,

                                    Jim Rotenberg
                                    jrotenb@sbu.edu
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 12:00:31 WET
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "psp.dasilvaalvo" <J.H.Dasilvaalvo@SEQ.HULL.AC.UK>
Subject:      REQUEST E-MAIL ADDRESS FOR Univ. of HULL

>
> Does anyone know the e-mail address for the University of Hull in
> North Humberside, England. More specifically, if one knows the
> e-mail address for the Dept of Psychology, it would be appreciated.
> THANKS!!
>  DAN (F16M@UNB.CA)

Hi Dan,
I am at the University of Hull. You can tell me who you want to write to.
Bye.
Jorge.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Jorge daS. Alvoeiro,                Tel:([0]482) 465778
  Dept. of Psychology,                Fax:([0]482) 465599
  Hull University,                    E_Mail: J.H.Dasilvaalvo@uk.ac.hull.seq
  Cottingham Road,
  Hull HU6 7RX,
  England
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 11:40:13 CST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         ECO_GXC@SHSU.BITNET
Subject:      Re: More on Bathroom behavior studies. (try again)

the lines at women's restrooms needs no psych explanation.  Women's
rooms tend to have the same number of commodes as mens but have
no urinals.  So, there are simply fewer "service facilities".  Hence
longer wait times.
Same as you have to wait longer to checkout at the grocery if
there are fewer check out lines open (holding customers constant)

-- gary carson
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