HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: That Virgin Mary really gets around
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 23:55:53 GMT

In article <e0LePB7w164w@ailanth.UUCP> 
ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>i find all this rather odd, myself.  this thread, that is.  i had always
>thought the mary sightings were very nice, rather moving.  proof that even
>christians need the goddess.  if people are seeing the virgin mary, and more
>people WANT to see her, why should we make fun of that?  if i thought she
>existed, *I* would try to go someplace where i could see her in person!  
>why is it that pilgrimages are subject to ridicule if people in OUR culture 
>go on them?  i think they're beautiful.

Yeah, I think you've summed it up. For what it's worth, I've seen three
ethnic groups doing this, Poles, Italians (Madonna) and Mexicans (Virgin
of Guadalupe). I don't know too much about these women, but I suspect
there's a good deal to it. If I may over simplify, Christianity is about
putting God above the Goddess, after all that is why Eve was born from
Adam, a bit unusual, if you think about it. So this is what Mary
worshipping is about, some people apparently like the idea of
worshipping both God and Goddess, after all who was it that brought
Jesus into this world? Some peoples just don't want to forget about
mother, makes sense to me.
From: jblain@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: The last week on alt.pagan - so I can catch up.
Date: 22 Aug 92 00:36:03 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Greetings, all 

I didn't read NEWS for six days because of a work overload (I had a report
to finish and discovered some the the data weren't OK . . . had to spend time
fixing it all up in a hurry). As some of you know, usenet stuff doesn't
hang around on my system. . .

So what's been going on in the last week? Anything new? Any word on (maybe)
soc.rel. wicca/pagan or whatever? 

(but don't tell me about the fundy survey - I read enough replies to work
out what was going on there. Also I have the full complement of "subject?"
items, including the first.)
-- 

	Jenny		Jblain @ ac.dal.ca
__________________________________________________________________________
	I was in many shapes before I was released:
	.....
	I was a path, I was an eagle, I was a coracle in seas;
	I was a bubble in beer, I was a drop in a shower;
	I was a sword in hand, I was a shield in battle.
	I was a string in a harp enchanted nine years, in the water as foam;
	I was a spark in fire, I was wood in a bonfire;
	I am not one who does not sing; I have sung since I was small.

						[from The Book of Taliesin]
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: words
Keywords:  "We have met the enemy and he is us" - Pogo
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 18:44:48 GMT

In article <4D8iPB1w165w@brewich.hou.tx.us> 
liam@brewich.hou.tx.us (Liam) writes:
>        I have been watching the news lately, and it seems that all there 
>is to report is violence, crime, and hatred.  I read posts about 
>religeous, racial or sexual intolerance. It is quite obvious that these 
>things are not much liked, yet the majority of the people I talk to just 
>point fingers and say "something needs to be done about this" or 
>"sombody needs to do such and such about this that or the other problem" 
>or the ever popular "It wasn't my fault".  We always seem to blame the 
>ills of the world on "THEM", yet I wonder how many people really know who 
>"them" is. 

Reference: In Context, #26, Summer 1990, po box 11470, Bainbridge
Island, Wa, 98110, 206-842-0216, Article "Pogonomics", page 24-27, Joe
Dominguez.

Pogonomics: "We have met the enemy and he is us"

[   If the environment is not to our liking, it is because of our
employement, our consumption, our debt, our focus on money. It is us -
as individuals - who are the enemy. It is not due to the
"Military-Industrial-Complex". Or "The Federal Budget". Or "Defense
Spending". Or EXXON. Or the Logging Industry. It is not even due to 
McDonald's! It is due only to our individual consumption. OUR DEMAND!
Prostitution would be the world's loneliest profession without demand.
The Medellin Cartel would be a 4-H club without demand. Loggers would be
owlophiles without demand. OPEC would be a Solar Energy and
Desalinization Consortium without our demand. Japan would be a leader in
Third World sustainable development if not for our demand ... for sushi,
Toshibas, Suzooks, CD's, VCR's, TV's, HD's, RAM, CVCC's ... What sort of
demand? Bigger house. Remodelled kitchen. Full employment. Boat.
Mountain Bike. Second car. Vacation cabin. Job security. Motor home.
Four wheeler. Satellite dish. Microwave. Laptop. Riding mower. Silk
blouse. Bigger paycheck. Second income. Why this demand? Because we have
come to believe, or act as if we believe, that: More is Better. We must
raise our standard of living. Quality of life is measured by income.
Abudance and prosperity are material birthrights. Whoever dies with the
most toys wins. We should shop till we drop. We deserve it. It's the
American Way. We are our jobs. Success is a many spended thing. We can
serve two masters - God and Mammon.    ]
From: markbr@radian.UUCP (Mark Roth)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: subject?
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:23:53 GMT


 Hi, folks.
 
 I replied:
 a) I'm not lost,
 b) Moses saves, and
 c) Have you ever personally considered the laws concerning public nuisances?
 
 Btw, note that this turkey's address isn't Compuserve this time. Maybe he
 forged his last address, or maybe he got such a response, that he came
 in another way.
 
 *** political rant alert *** political rant alert *** political rant alert ***
 On another subject, (or maybe ruler) heard Geordie's speech last night. 
 Heard the religious Right's buzzphrase, "rights of the unborn". Well, folks,
 you got a choice: you can vote for normal politics, or you can vote to turn
 the US into a Fundamentalist Xian country.  
 
 A new name for the Republicans: the FUndamentalist Christian Coalition. Vote
 to get FUCC'd over!
 
 Vote as though you're voting for the next Justice of the Supreme Court:
 	you are.
 *** end rant alert *** end rant alert *** end rant alert *** end rant alert ***
 
 -- 
 /*___________________________________________________________________________*
  *  1.     How *DARE* you attribute these opinions to anyone else!           *
  *  2.     Would *you* claim opinions like these if they *weren't your own?  *
  *					                                     *
  *          	       	markbr@radian                                        *
  *___________________________________________________________________________*/
 Etymology, n.:
 	Some early etymological scholars come up with derivations that
 were hard for the public to believe.  The term "etymology" was formed
 from the Latin "etus" ("eaten"), the root "mal" ("bad"), and "logy"
 ("study of").  It meant "the study of things that are hard to swallow."
 		-- Mike Kellen
From: canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:04:50 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

In article <34FoPB2w165w@brewich.hou.tx.us> donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal) writes:
>canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson) writes:
>> 	Jethro Tull - surely everyone knows about "Cup of Wonder",
>> 		"Beltane" and "Jack-in-the-Green" by now?
>
>How about "Ring Out, Solstice Bells"? and "Weathercock"? and many others!
>I am a die-hard JT fan (have EVERY album) or couldn't you tell!

	Oh yeah? :) But do you have the "Rocks On the Road" English 2-CD EP
set with the original acoustic demo of Jack-a-Lynn?  Or the 2-CD _uncut_
original version of "Bursting Out"?
	Well, OK, I don't have that one myself ... yet :)
	I suppose that "Dun Ringill", and "Cold Wind to Valhalla" might as
well get mentioned.  "Weathercock" is awesome - I love to listen to that
one early on a crisp fall morning.  Ahhh!
 
>> 	I tend to think of pagan religion as inseperable from folk
>> tradition, so I lump a great deal of folk music into the "pagan" cateogry.
>> It would be foolish to spit out and exhaustive list here.  I will mention
>> bands like Fairport [happy 25th to them], Steeleye, the Albion Band as well
>> as newer bands such as the Oyster Band, Phoenix, and Tempest.
>
>Son't forget Battlefield Band, and The Chieftains!

	Well, the list goes on and on from here, dunnit?  :) 

Cheers,
Carl

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Edlund Anderson	            	"Hefi ek ok aldri sva reitt vapn
canders@isr.harvard.edu			at manni at eigi hafi vidh kommit."
OR
anderso2@husc.harvard.edu			- Skarphedhinn Njalsson 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:02:44 GMT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
[entire post deleted... :) ]
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>      ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com                   ________
>       No visible means of support          Silence \      / Action
>       and you have not seen nothing yet.      =     \    /    =
>       Everything's come together.           Death    \  /    Life
>                                                       \/

seeing your sig just reminded me of a sticker I saw at the Pro-Choice 
rally this last Saturday at the Dome... The woman had it on her purse, 
and told me she got it from Greenpeace at the CS&N concert the night 
before... it said:
       "Silence is the voice of complicity"
       
Blessed Be!


--------------------
Donal, Sysop of The Brewer's Witch BBS -- +1 713 272 7350
(Internet) donal@brewich.hou.tx.us  (Work) bill%pssi@lobster.hou.tx.us
(CIS) 76460,1443 
(SCA) Ld. Donal Dubh, IC of Dun Bruddair, B of the Stargate, K of Ansteorra
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Subject: Re: Hitler as Occultist (was: Re: Numbers)
Reply-To: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 18:28:07 GMT

>"My point is this:  pagans are just as likely as anyone
>else to try to find a convenient enemy to be responsible for
>their problems. Find an example of an Inquisitor burning a witch
>within living memory and I'll help you try to throw the bloke in
>jail.
>--
>Paul Ciszek

  Thanks for clarification.  I'm glad now that I didn't
automatically grab my flame-gear.

  As for the Witch burning, well, in 'Merica we don't burn
folks no more, we just fire them or lay them off or don't
renew their tenure or they don't make it past the probationary
period.

  Or, as still seems to be happening down south, we legislate
against any practice which sounds even slightly Pagan, and
support it all by flying the flag of family values.

  It seems that I read in my Encyclopaedea Britanica (1926), that
the Inquisition in America was disbarred sometime in this century
with only one burning in Mexico under its belt.

  But I agree.  People in America are much more likely to be
killed because of their skin color or sexual preference than
because of their religious affiliation (or lack thereof), although
it seems that President Bush has been trying very hard to make
a special case for getting agnostics off of our blessed shores
in his political speaches again this time around.


  Perhaps a point I would like to make though, is that although
Pagans are just as likely as anyone to try to find a convenient
enemy to be responsible for their problems, Christians are
currently in a fabulous position for doing so (for example,
Jesse Helm's attempted legislation against Pagan-faith "churches"
and temples), and through the teleranting of self-proclaimed
Christians.  Relatively speaking, all Pagans can do is be
angry and piss and whine.  Christians can get together and
legislate.

  There's no way I consider this anything-bashing.  These are
complains about attacks against my civil liberties -- my right
to practice my religion.  It just happens that most of the
people trying to gut my freedoms ALL CLAIM to be of the same
faith.

  While that reflects badly upon the faith in question, it hardly
seems to me that pointing this out is an ATTACK upon the faith.

  So there.

  Does seem odd, though, that Hitler gets such extensive press
on Internet.

  Blessed be, Ciaran.

  p.s.  Hey -- wasn't that a FABULOUS moon we just had?  Big
and bright and shiney -- and only 45 degrees (F) during our
full moon ritual (outdoors, silly us).  Got to break the winter
robes out of moth-balls, though !!
From: darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Date: 12 Aug 92 23:24:28 GMT
Organization: University of California, Davis

In the grand tradition of the Pagan Movie thread, I thought I'd ask people
for their favorite works of fiction with pagan themes. I'll start by
listing several of my favorites:

THOMAS THE RHYMER, by Ellen Kushner. A novelization of the Child ballad
about a minstrel who is bound in service by the Queen of Elfland for seven
years. A superior story which really captures the atmosphere of an
earlier age.

A VISION OF LIGHT and IN SEARCH OF THE GREEN LION, both by Judith
Merkle Riley. Set in 14th century England (not one of history's high points).
The protagonist here is one Margaret of Ashbury, who is a very
unusual woman for her time. Very well written, absorbing stories.

SEVENTH SON, RED PROPHET, and PRENTICE ALVIN, by Orson Scott Card.  
Again, very well-written books. These represent an alternative American
frontier history where "magic" works. One of the most imaginative
"alternate worlds" ever created, IMHO.

Obviously Arthurian fiction will be prominently featured in any
such list. It's really become a genre of its own. Personally I've never
gotten much into it, but it certainly has proliferated lately. I had
the occasion last year to attend a talk by Persia Wooley, author of
an Arthurian trilogy told from Guinivere's standpoint. The first of this
trilogy is "Queen of the Summer Stars". I haven't read it yet, but the
author's talk on her research into Celtic paganism was inspiring.

I guess Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover books would have to qualify as
pagan fiction, as would Kathryn Kurtz' various Deryni series (in that
they feature a magic-practicing race, though the author is clearly a
very devout Catholic).

All for now. Come on now, clog my mailbox (or alt.pagan :-)).

Blessings to all,
Richard
(Tuneweaver)

"Lead me into the company of those who seek the truth, and deliver
me from those who have found it."
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Numbers
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 23:39:32 GMT

Carl E. Anderson (canders@isr.harvard.edu) wrote:

: 	Hitler was not nearly so interested in religion as he was in
: *control*.  Luckily he wasn't very stable mentally and so eventually
: screwed himself up.

The whole issue of whether or not Hitler was a Christian is moot.  Hitler
used whatever was convenient to control the masses.  If telling people
he was a Christian would rally support, that's what he would say.  The man
was one hell of a demagogue.  Not to mention one sick son-of-a-BITCH.

(apologies to female canines everywhere) :)
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
From: donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: resign alt.pagan
Keywords: you are either hammer or anvil!
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:19:54 GMT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) writes:

> In article <memo.578258@cix.compulink.co.uk> 
> shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
> >
> 
> Por que nada? Reino del ensueno? 
> And why do you wish to resign, number six?
> You can check out any time you like, but ...
> 

We want... information!  :)
    The Prisoner is free!

--------------------
Donal, Sysop of The Brewer's Witch BBS -- +1 713 272 7350
(Internet) donal@brewich.hou.tx.us  (Work) bill%pssi@lobster.hou.tx.us
(CIS) 76460,1443 
(SCA) Ld. Donal Dubh, IC of Dun Bruddair, B of the Stargate, K of Ansteorra
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,ne.motss
From: rickheit@dragon (Erich Rickheit KSC)
Subject: Q-Moon
Frankie: Nothing...why, do you think I should?
Organization: University of Lowell Computer Science, Lowell MA
Brad: What have you done with Janet
Distribution: ne
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:47:07 GMT

      This is to announce the formation of Q-Moon, and to invite
      you, the reader, to Q-Moon's inception celebration, potluck
      dinner, and schmooze-a-thon.

      Q-Moon is an organization of gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and
      those other others of various pagan persuasions. Our aim is
      to build community  between the pagan and queer communities
      and to help each other along those paths that our 'straight'
      friends in both communities don't walk.

      Q-Moon holds meetings on the quarter moons (or, more
      precisely, on the nearest Fridays). Meetings will alternate
      between essentially social events, a chance for people to
      meet, talk, discuss and organize, and essentially magical
      events, to do ritual, workshops and magical work.  People
      are encouraged to attend either or both sorts of events.

      So, join us! Our inception will be held on the quarter
      moon, August the 21st, at quarter past the hour of seven,
      and will be quartered at the Arlington Street Church, 351
      Boylston Street, Boston in the Clarke Room, where we'll
      call the quarters.  There will be a party of the potluck
      variety, so bring something, even if it's only your charm.
      For more information, phone Brian Reddington-Wilde at
      617 944 5883 or send email to rickheit@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu


-- 
			Erich the hahaha Mad
rickheit@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu AT&T: 508 453 1753 : USnail : Erich Rickheit KSC
         "Here, my ice lolly's melted --           :          85 Gershom Ave, #2
          You really _are_ the devil!"             :          Lowell, MA 01854
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: rap@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Roger Powell)
Subject: Re: jet
Reply-To: rap@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Roger Powell)
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 20:55:24 GMT

Jet is a form of coal; real jet has a warm feel to it, much like amber.
I am under the impression that it is this warm, 'alive' feel that has
endeared amber and jet to Witch folk over the years -- both are formed
from prehistoric plant matter. 

Jet is quite inexpensive, but it's hard to find, possibly because
it's somewhat messy to work into beads (coal dust, y'know ... )

BB,
--roger

rap@hq.ileaf.com (Roger Powell)
Interleaf has no opinion on the virtues of jet and amber.
From: byron@zeus.opt-sci.arizona.edu (Byron Taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.destroy.the.earth
Subject: the big cookout
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:50:32 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona Optical Sciences Center

In keeping with the food theme.  
How about this. We (earth fisters), begin a world wide program to destroy
the worlds electrical generating and petrol processing plants.
(These plants take years to build at mininum and with the help of Nimby's 
much longer.)  Without electricity, man will have to cook his/her Banquet 
Frozen Dinners over the open flame.  The Duraflame log supply can only hold out
for a while, and are not recommended for cooking anyway, so soon man will 
turn to the trees for cooking and heating fuel. With all these fires going
and trees burning, the Greenhouse effect gets the benefit of both worlds, lack
of leafy green material and CO2 production.  The humans get the joys of lots of
smog.  If we are lucky the Green house effect will run away.  Note that this
plan is not gauranteed to kill deep sea life.
See Mr. PJF it is possible, with a little thought, to destroy the earth 
or at least make it suffer, which might be better.  
Newsgroups: alt.destroy.the.earth
From: PJF4081@cc.utah.edu (that's mr. wonderful to you)
Subject: kill
Organization: committee for the advancement of disgust
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 10:40:38 MDT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.10

humans are a selfish bunch. there is no way, (READ: NO WAY) that we could
destroy the earth. what a load of crap. now go away.


()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()(
	PJF---->Biochem. grad student. "suffering *is* my game.		
	  	            WORK  :==  FUTURE
	"i am involved in the petty business of scientific research."
                         "feel free to feel me."
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Newsgroups: alt.destroy.the.earth
From: pholland@iastate.edu (Paul J Hollander)
Subject: Skyhook falls
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:03:36 GMT

I've seen a few science fiction stories with a skyhook in them.  This thing
is basically a tower from the earth's surface into space with its center 
of mass in geosynchronous orbit.  If the (your favorite terrorist 
organization) bombed the thing and broke off the far end, would the rest
fall to earth or be thrown out into space?  Assuming of course it was 
strong enough to hold together under the strain.  If a significant part
fell to earth, it would cause death and destruction over a fairly wide
area, IMHO, even if it didn't destroy human civilization.  Does anyone have
any numbers for this scenario?

Paul Hollander    pholland@iastate.edu
Behold the tortoise: he makes no progress unless he sticks his neck out.
From: crerar@rodan.UU.NET (Andy Crerar)
Newsgroups: alt.destroy.the.earth
Subject: Re: kill
Date: 21 Aug 1992 09:17:19 -0400
Organization: UUNET Technologies Inc, Falls Church, VA
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net

PJF4081@cc.utah.edu (that's mr. wonderful to you) whines:
>humans are a selfish bunch. there is no way, (READ: NO WAY) that we could
>destroy the earth. what a load of crap. now go away.

What an appalling lack of imagination you have.  I suppose we should thank
people like you for inspiring those of us with enough dedication and 
intelligence to try something difficult.  People like yourself who said
there is no way to go to the Moon, or there is no way to fly, or there is
no way to circle the globe, or--well, you get the point, tick the rest of
us off enough that we work to *do* those things, instead of having to put
up with your whiney nonsense.  

As for us going away, we plan to.  And we plan to take the planet with us.
If you don't like it, quit reading.

>	PJF---->Biochem. grad student. "suffering *is* my game.		

Andy, willing to destroy the earth to get people like you off of it.
-- 
Andy Crerar                     crerar@uunet.uu.net
CS Administrative Asst.         uunet!crerar
From: eperkio@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: alt.destroy.the.earth
Subject: Re: black hole story?
Date: 23 Aug 92 13:42:55 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <BtFBv0.DF0@well.sf.ca.us>, dasher@well.sf.ca.us (D Anton Sherwood) writes:
> 
> Seems to me I recently read a novel involving a black hole that was created
> and accidentally dropped into Earth (it's estimated that Earth will collapse
> within a few years).  Anybody know what it was?
> -- 
> D Anton Sherwood *\\* dasher@well.sf.ca.us *\\* +1 415 664 2229
> Libertarian candidate for California Assembly, 12th district

If the story also involved computer networks, a concept of virtual reality,
an extremely misanthropic woman and several interesting ways to die, it was 
'Earth' by David Brin.  Highly recommended, with a deus ex machina warning, 
though. 

 
--
Esa Perki|               "I should honor you?  Why?"
eperkio@cc.helsinki.fi      - Prometheus to Zeus according to Goethe
IRCer Shade
Newsgroups: alt.destroy.the.earth