HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal)
Subject: Re: Mexican/American War Question
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 21:07:20 GMT

In article <JMC.92Dec10153204@SAIL.Stanford.EDU>, jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:
> In article <1992Dec10.211623.14580@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:
> 
>    Actually, the shoe's on the other foot.  The last auto-da-fee in
>    Mexico was in 1850.  Sounds incredible right?  Well, I seem to
>    remember that during the Mexican American War,
>    a good deal of the Mexican troops were in the
>    central plaza of Mexico City watching heretics (mostly secret
>    Jews) go up in flames.  Anybody have a better reason why
>    Chapultapec was only guarded by a bunch of cadets?
> 
> 
> 		   Seth Rosenthal
> 
>    Disclaimer: All opinions are my own not my employers'.
> 
> It is implicit in Seth Rosenthal's posting that Rosenthal thinks the
> burning of the secret Jews in Mexico City in 1850 was a bad thing.
> However, he tells us that this opinion is not his employer's.
> 
> What right does AT&T have to not have this opinion?  The fact that a
> trusted employee tells us that AT&T does not have this opinion is a
> clue, nay not just a clue but evidence, that AT&T favors all sorts of
> racism.  Read my letter to the FCC and to the Public Utilities
> Commissions of all 50 states objecting to these long distance rates
> that promote racism.

Auto-da-fee's are a bad thing.  Few people disagree with that.
We have had a few people try to justify the Inquisition and the
auto-da-fee's on soc.culture.jewish.

You either left out your smiley, or somethings real wrong here.

The standard disclaimer, is always meant to ensure that noone
interprets employees statements as Company policy, or corporate
opinion.

		Seth Rosenthal

Newsgroups: soc.history
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: SECRET PURPOSE OF FALKLANDS WAR
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 16 Dec 92 11:50:12

It would be informative to read a more recent audio letter of Dr. Beter.
I'm sure he could explain what is really behind the apparent collapse of
the Soviet Union.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
From: erics@sco.COM (eric smith)
Subject: Re: Mexican/American War Question
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:51:18 GMT


stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:

>>>>In the Mexican/American War, is it true that the U.S. Marines killed millions
>>>>of children which were called "Los Ninos Heroes" (The Children Heroes)?
>>
>>Chapultepec, a fortified hill south of Mexico City, was a traditional
>>home of Spanish viceroys and Mexican rulers.  During the M-A War, it
>>was home to Mexican cadets.  It was stormed by the Americans in 1847,
>>who knew it to be a guarded military fortress, but didn't know who
>>guarded it.  The cadets put up a brave defense, but were defeated.
>>The castle is now a historical museum.
>>
>>I guess My Lai was nothing original.

>If it's America bashing time, in rebutal there are-

>     1.	the Alamo, and
>     2. Goliad

>In the case of the Alamo, men who were waving white flags (as the
>Mexicans went from room to room in the Long Barracks) were killed,
>as were 6 or so survivors of the battle.  In the case of Goliad,
>the 300 or so there, after they surrendered without a fight because
>they were told they would be deported to the U.S., were marched
>to an open field and murdered.

>And all this, of course, in total violation of an armistice agreed
>to by General Cos (Santa Ana's brother-in-law) at San Antonio in
>December, 1835.

Reality and perception are often at wide variance. The fact is that in
Chapultepec Park in Mexico City there is a monument to "Los Ninos
Heores", and the widely held perception is that they were children
bravely defending the military fortress who were massacred by American
soldiers. This may not be the reality, or the whole story, but it does
contribute to the view of Americans as invaders and oppressors.

-----
Eric Smith
erics@sco.com
erics@infoserv.com
CI$: 70262,3610
From: cowan@ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu (P.L. Cowan)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: Mexican/American War Question
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:48:34 -0800
Organization: SSRL, Stanford Synchrotron Radiation Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu

In article <53RS3JCNI@linac.fnal.gov>, robin@severian.chi.il.us (Robin Carkhuff) writes:
> 
>>chris@dhvx20.csudh.edu writes
>>>In the Mexican/American War, is it true that the U.S. Marines killed millions
>>>of children which were called "Los Ninos Heroes" (The Children Heroes)?
> 
> Chapultepec, a fortified hill south of Mexico City, was a traditional
> home of Spanish viceroys and Mexican rulers.  During the M-A War, it
> was home to Mexican cadets.  It was stormed by the Americans in 1847,
> who knew it to be a guarded military fortress, but didn't know who
> guarded it.  The cadets put up a brave defense, but were defeated.
> The castle is now a historical museum.
> 
> I guess My Lai was nothing original.
> 
> Robin

I'll ignore the My Lai remark.

Isn't it true that the red stripe on the pants legs of the US Marine Dress 
Uniform is supposed to honor the cadets at Chapultepec? 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
P. L. Cowan     Please send replies, comments etc. (no flames thank you) to 
COWAN@ANL.GOV   "I've been to one World's Fair, a picnic and a rodeo, but
                that's the stupidest thing I ever heard..."_Dr.Strangelove_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Civil War Alternate Histories
Followup-To: soc.history
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1992Dec18.130737.2090@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
	<JMC.92Dec18104537@SAIL.Stanford.EDU>
	<1992Dec19.004649.21502@Princeton.EDU>
Date: 18 Dec 92 17:46:26

Gary Hewitt asks:

     Does the mere hint of materialism get your own ideological
     hackles up, John?  Is there a problem with the possible
     interactions between (gasp!)  historically-changing notions
     of morality and material circumstances.  Even non-marxists
     agree with that one -- for something on this issue, see
     Thomas Haskell's 2-part article on capitalism and the
     origins of antislavery in the AHR, 1985.

No, I'm a moderate on the issue, but I think the discussion was
ignoring the moral ideas of the English.  Thus I think moral
consideration were what enabled the abolitionists in London
to get Parliament to impose enormous costs on the slave owners
of the fringes.  Admittedly moral considerations would have
had a much harder time had too many of the costs to be borne
in England.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: soc.history
From: jtrimble@sdf.lonestar.org (John Trimble)
Subject: Re: Mexican/American War Question
Organization: Best lil' ol' Pubnix in Texas
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:07:37 GMT

Chapultepec castle was the last fortified position in Mexico City to fall.
It's on the crest of a hill, in what is now a park, and there are two monuments
to the legendary defenders of the castle.  One at the base of the hill's steepest
precipice, where the last remaining cadets are said to have leapt to their deaths
rather than surrender, and another on the edge of the park that became the 
scene of anti-U.S. rallies during years of Yankee-bashing.

Please note that the suicides are legendary.  The fortress was indeed 
defended by cadets, about a thousand, who resisted an artillery barrage but fell when Winfield Scott's troops stormed the castle on the morning of September 13,
1847.  Land mines failed to explode, and the Americans breached the surrounding walls with pickaxes and crowbars, then scaled the Castle walls with ladders.
Hand-to-hand was fierce, and the last troops to fall were the cadets.  (Oops, I 
said previously that the entire 1000 were cadets; they weren't all cadets.)

Not to detract from the bravery of the castle's defenders, the legend grew out
of proportion to the facts in support of anti-US feelings in Mexico in this 
century, and that's when the monuments were built and became a rallying point
associated with the fervor of Diez y seis de septiembre, Sept. 16, Mexican
Independence Day.  

Nin~os Heroes means "boy heroes".

Indeed, it is nothing like My Lai, nor any of the other comparisons 
folks here have made, except that like the My Lai incident, it took 
on a social and political charge that carried it beyond ordinary "battles" as 
being representative of a very vicious war.  
jtrimble@sdf.lonestar.org
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: visser@convex.com (Lance Visser)
Subject: Re: IRISH: Easter Rising 1916??
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:45:46 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Dec16.144706.1@wombat.newcastle.edu.au> c9119870@wombat.newcastle.edu.au (ANTIGONE) writes:

+>Could any of you Irish History scholars fill me in with the
+>particulars of the 1916 Easter Rising?

	It was a hopeless rebellion started by a bunch of fanatics who 
were in contact with the germans and who (I think) were getting rifles 
from the Germans.  
	There was never a hope that they would win, but they managed to 
put up a decent fight for a while until the full weight of the british 
fell on them.

+>Was it considered a success? (By the Catholics, that is)

	Its success was in that it managed to provoke a british over-reaction
to the rising.  The british reaction caused a huge wave of anti-british 
anger which lead to Irish independence in the long run.





Newsgroups: soc.history
From: kja@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (krista.j.anderson)
Subject: Bronze in Native America
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:58:41 GMT

The subject of metals came up a while ago and I thought I
remembered something about bronze, but didn't have time to look it
up.  I just found the following in my archives which I wrote some
time ago:

Someone on this newsgroup had mentioned that he thought he
remembered that the Aztecs might have used bronze weapons.  At the
Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago, I saw a set of three
Aztec bronze celts, dated c. 1500.  The first European explorers to
reach MesoAmerica did so no earlier than 1517.  (Celts were not
used as weapons, however.)

I couldn't find any mention of Aztec bronze in my favorite
archaeology book, but I did find a reference to metal alloys made
by some people in western Mexico, the Tarascans, who were
contemporaneous with the Aztecs.  The book said that metallurgy
probably came to Mexico from South America along the west coast. 

I quickly skimmed another book at the library which confirms it
that bronze and metallurgy in general was most likely brought to
Mexico from Peru.  Apparently, the Mexican Indians were just
beginning to make bronze from their own ores when their development
was interrupted. 

The Mound Builders used quite a few metals, but no alloys.  In the
Hopewell Tradition (300 BC - AD 500) the people used quite a lot of
copper, as prehistoric American easterners had since 5000 BC.  The
Hopewell Mound Builders also used meteoric iron, native silver and a
little gold.  Trade was highly developed in this time frame, and
most raw materials were imported.

The agriculture and trade of this period in the Great Lakes area
declined for unknown reasons, being replaced by a simple hunting
culture.  Mound building was revived c. AD 900 in the Mississippian
Period.  
-- 
Krista Anderson, krista@ihlpf.att.com  or  ihlpf!krista@att.att.com
I don't want to be here; I want to be in an Agatha Christie novel,
or in a musical, like Mary Poppins.
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: pdunn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Patrick L Dunn)
Subject: Posting American Civil War Stuff
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 07:59:07 GMT


To those who are posting to the "alt4ernate history" thread: remember, there is
an alt.war.civil.usa group that would love to have/discuss your posts.

If you have access--

PDunn
From: kniaz@sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu (Chris Kniaz -Fischer)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: SECRET PURPOSE OF FALKLANDS WAR
Date: 16 Dec 92 18:17:28 GMT
Organization: Laboratory for Research on the Structure of Matter, University of Pennsylvania


YES!! Please ! More conspiracy crap on this net group, more historical
urine from that famous Artificial Intelligence (?) creature (you know
who) and I won't need my kill file anymore....

-- 

Krzysztof Kniaz, Penn |  
LRSM ,                | "A witty saying proves nothing"
Phila, PA, 19104, USA |                 Voltaire
Organization: Computing Technology Services, Michigan Technological Univ.
Date: Sunday, 13 Dec 1992 23:28:52 EST
From: <CMLEE@MTUS5.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
Subject: need an address

Is there anyone from University of Pennsilvania?, How can I send a email
to someone who is using an account that works with C++?
Thanks in advance.

Tony.
From: marten@ilt.fhg.de (Lutz Marten)
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
Subject: Jerry Nieder-Westermann, SF - CA
Date: 18 Dec 1992 07:44:23 GMT
Organization: FhG-ILT
Distribution: world
Reply-To: marten@ilt.fhg.de
NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.44.11.6


Hello I'm looking for Jerry Nieder-Westermann, he's geologist and probably 
 working in an engineering bureau in San Francisco, CA.
Does he have e-mail connection ?
-Lutz
--
# Lutz Marten,  Postmaster and general dogsbody 
# Fraunhofer-Gesellschaft Institut fuer Lasertechnik 
# BITNET: KQ040MA@DACTH11 , InterNet: marten@ilt.fhg.de                        
# HEPNET: 13533::52714::MARTEN, Phone: +49/241/8906-112, -0
From: marten@ilt.fhg.de (Lutz Marten)
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
Subject: Sorry  Gerry (for Gerald) not Jerry Nieder-Westermann, SF - CA
Date: 18 Dec 1992 07:58:12 GMT
Organization: FhG-ILT
Distribution: world
Reply-To: marten@ilt.fhg.de
NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.44.11.6


Sorry for the wrong name Gerry for Gerald instead of Jerry ....
--
# Lutz Marten,  Postmaster and general dogsbody 
# Fraunhofer-Gesellschaft Institut fuer Lasertechnik 
# BITNET: KQ040MA@DACTH11 , InterNet: marten@ilt.fhg.de                        
# HEPNET: 13533::52714::MARTEN, Phone: +49/241/8906-112, -0
From: clw@ocf.berkeley.edu (A Ghost in the Machine)
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
Subject: Psinet
Summary: Where is it?
Date: 15 Dec 92 04:28:38 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: earthquake.berkeley.edu


	Someone said net access was available through something called
'psinet' for a flat monthly fee.  Anyone know about this, or any other
flat-monthly-fee Internet access method?  The WELL charges per hour...

	clw@ocf.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
From: wagnonb@ur.msstate.edu
Subject: Argnone Labs
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:52:01 GMT

Thanks to all who provided information on electronic mail to 
Argonne National Laboratories.  With your help I was able to
locate my friend.  Many thanks.

Bill
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
Subject: Lost friend
From: romeo@netlink.cts.com (William Bridges)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 14:39:32 PST
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

Hi, I lost contact with a friend of mine, and am trying to locate him.
His name is Terry Lesperance. He use to be in the Navy. If you could help 
please reply by e-mail. Thanks.

--                    
INTERNET:  romeo@netlink.cts.com (William Bridges)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!romeo
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
From: wcohen@allegra.att.com (William Cohen)
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
Subject: looking for Sherry Tomboulian
Date: 15 Dec 92 21:43:46 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories


Does anyone know the current whereabouts of Sherry Tomboulian?  She
got a PhD in CS from Duke in 1986 or so, and her bachelor's was from
New Mexicon State; she's worked at places like Thinking Machines and
MassPar (?), and was recently living in the Silicon Valley area.

Reply by mail, please.

- William Cohen
wcohen@research.att.com

--

- William Cohen (wcohen@research.att.com)
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
From: boardman@CS.ColoState.EDU (andrew boardman)
Subject: Janelle Strik (nee' Johnston), Aust/Dubai/??
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 02:27:53 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

Hi people-out-there,

	I'm trying to help my aunt(in law) locate an old, dear friend.
They met in 1975 and have since lost touch. Here's all the available
info I have on her.

Her birth name was Janelle Johnston, and she was from California. My
aunt met her in Puerto Rico (My aunt's name at the time was Jean
Beardsley). She came from the American School in Beirut, Lebanon,
and the both of them taught school together at the San Juan School
in Puerto Rico. From there, Janelle went to teach in Guatemale, but
returned to US after the earthquake. Eventually, she ended up teaching
in Dubai (Suadian Arabian emirate?) where she met and married a man
from Holland (Herman Strik), who worked for Dubai Petroleum
Company. That's the last my aunt heard of them.

She knows that they were thinking of relocating to Australia,
and that Janelle has a sister in California named Bonnie Raff.
She lost track of Bonnie too, I believe, during a move. Janelle
should be around her 50's by now.

If anyone has any information, or any other way to find Janelle,
we would be grateful. We havealready tried the International
School Services in Princeton, NJ, who managed to lose track of Janelle
after having placed her for years.

My thanks and hers,
			-- skye

-- 
"I come from the land Down Under,            |
Where women glow and men plunder.            |         skye
Can't you hear, can't you hear that thunder? |aboard@statsun.stat.colostate.edu
You better run, you better take cover"       |
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
From: thorntn@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Duncan Peter G. Thornton)
Subject: Help Relaying Xmas message to Amsterdam
Summary: Can you?
Keywords: Help Xmas message Amsterdam
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Distribution: Europe
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:34:34 GMT

Can anyone in Amsterdam help me get a Christmas message to a friend? I
just need someone to make a local call on the 24th or the 25th to a
Canadian friend who's moved there & pass on a simple message. There's
a postcard with a Mountie in it for you.

- Duncan

Duncan Thornton          | An odd thought strikes me - we shall receive no
thorntn@ccu.umanitoba.ca |             email in the grave.
	

Newsgroups: soc.net-people
From: petel@sequent.com (Pete Lancashire)
Subject: LOOKING FOR: Priscilla L. Vail author of...
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 22:03:45 GMT

Smart Kids with School Problems/Thinks to Know & Ways to Help

-pete
Pete Lancashire
petel@sequent.com
From: sonny@sesoft.toppoint.de (Sonny (Soenke Schaefer))
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
Distribution: world
Organization: Die moderne Zeitung! Private UUCP-Point, Kiel, FRG
Subject: Looking for somebody in Strassburg
Reply-To: sonny@sesoft.toppoint.de
X-Software: HERMES GUS 1.04 Rev. Sep  5 1992
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 14:42:52 MEZ
X-Charset: iso-8859-1

Hello, I am looking for somebody from Strassburg.

I have a special question, please reply.
Then I will send it to you.

Thanks.


-- 
MfG Soenke Schaefer   [] sonny@sesoft.toppoint.de
Postbox 8040 D-2300 Kiel-17 Fon 49-431-363797 Fax 363791
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
From: jdavis@ssf-sys.DHL.COM (Jim Davis)
Subject: Cecil Gaines;you out there?
Organization: DHL Systems, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:44:05 GMT



I've lost track of an old and dear friend who was best man at my wedding.
He is Cecil M. Gaines originally from Moultrie, Georgia.  Last time I saw
him was when he was with US Postal Dept. as a Cost Accountant in San Mateo,
CA.  He is between 55-60 years old, about 6" tall approx. 175 lbs, blond
hair, probably considerable grey by now.

Anyone have any clues as to his where-abouts I'd appreciate an email at
   jdavis@ssf-sys.DHL.COM

THANKS!!
From: HF.ALB@forsythe.stanford.edu (Ann Babb)
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
Subject: Lost Santa Fe Friend
Date: 17 Dec 1992 12:12:35 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

I am looking for Debbi Huwen.  I am a friend of hers from Santa Fe
who moved while she was in South America.  She went to school in
Washington, and is now possibly working somewhere in Hawaii.  Anyone
have any ideas?  I'd be really grateful for your e-mail help.
Thanks a lot!
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
From: dwait@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (douglas.wait)
Subject: E-Mail to Russia - girlfriend in Peace Corps
Keywords: russia,ussr,soviet,e-mail,email
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:37:44 GMT

Help!  My girlfriend recently joined the Peace Corps and is now in Russia.
Some (about 1/3) of my mail (regular mail) does get to her but none of hers
is getting to me.  We really need to communicate.

What options for E-Mail to Russia are there?  Are there USENET sites in
Russia?  She is currently in a city called Saratov.  Is there anything near
there that would allow us to communicate?

I haven't been an active USENET user for some time.  If this article should
be posted to other groups please let me know.

Thanks,

Douglas J. Wait
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
From: kempis@phoenix.oulu.fi (Tapani Kemppainen)
Subject: Looking for Carol Gilligan at Harvard
Reply-To: kempis@phoenix.oulu.fi
Organization: KTK kirjasto, Oulun yliopisto
Distribution: soc.net-people
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 13:23:33 GMT

Does anybody know if Carol Gilligan who may work at Harvard
University. At least she was there in '89. Some of our students would
be interested in her work on 'moral development'.
	
Tapani Kemppainen
--
  
      ==================================================== 
      * Tapani Kemppainen         kempis@phoenix.oulu.fi *  
      * information specialist    Kasarmintie 4          *
      * University of Oulu        SF-90100 OULU, Finland *
      * Faculty of Education      tel +358 (9)81 373 944 *           
      * Library                   fax +358 (9)81 373 459 *
      ====================================================
From: xyzzy@momad.li.ny.us (Daniel Drucker)
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
Subject: Looking for Mike at Mitre, inc. (Counsler at Explo summercamp)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 12:09:20 EST
Reply-To: xyzzy@Momad.LI.NY.US (Daniel Drucker)
Organization: Modem Madness BBS    1+516-295-9435

Reply-To: daniel%mertwig@uunet.uu.net
Hello anyone know mike at mitre? 

I'm looking for him, he was a counseler at Exploration Summer camp.
From: u2d92@seq1.keele.ac.uk (MJ Gumbley)
Newsgroups: soc.net-people
Subject: Staffordshire University - Where are you?!
Date: 17 Dec 92 14:39:36 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England

Hi all, I've got a couple of friends at Staffordshire University, England
that I would like to contact, but I don't know the site name or Internet
address of said organisation.

Could someone help, or tell me where I can find a (possibly free) directory
of universities and polytechnics?

Thanks in advance, Matt.

--
Matt J. Gumbley              ||
u2d92@seq1.cc.keele.ac.uk    ||
University of Keele, England ||