HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stovall@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Steven Stovall)
Subject: Re: Lee: Skip work to attend Malcolm X
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Distribution: usa
Date:  8 Sep 92 21:34:59 GMT

HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:

>In article <stovall.715981389@ficus.cs.ucla.edu>,
>stovall@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Steven Stovall) writes:
>>HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:
>>
>>>My, aren't we grasping at straws...!  And deferring to the octopus
>>>knowledge of the almighty FBI, yet....!
>>>.
>>
>>Actually, it is mentioned in his file that he was given a 4F for,
>>among other things, "sexual perversion"...
>>
>.
>.
>.
>Is this the Clayborne Carson book on Malcolm's FBI files?  If so,
>what page?

Yeah. Have to bring it tomorrow. But look in the cronology at the
front of the book. Incidentally, there is some very interesting
material on his views of true Islam vs Elijah Muhammad's Islam
after his return from Hajj.

>.
>"Sexual perversion," huh?  But of course that would have meant pimp,
>too.

Yeah, it could mean almost anything. But it seems like pretty strong
language for a draft board.

_______________________________________________________________________________

steven stovall
stovall@exeter.cs.ucla.edu
(310) 825-7307
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: francois@usenet.umr.edu (Why ya askin?)
Subject: Re: FUCK YOU NIGGERS
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 17:33:04 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri -- Rolla


!In article <65328@cup.portal.com> Fuck-Head@cup.portal.com (Jeff R Spangenberg) wr
!
!DO NOT REPLY TO ME.  I AM COPYING THIS FROM THE NEWSGROUP misc.forsale.computers
!If you have a reply to this I believe mail either: 65328@cup.portal.com
!or Fuck-Head@cup.portal.com  .
!
!NOT ME, I am pointing this ignorant crap out.
!
!
!ak>Vote for Jesse Jackson in 1992... He'll give us a REAL reason to 
!>HATE THE FUCKING NIGGERS!!!
!>
!>
!>
!>FUCK YOU ALL!!
!
!Fuck you too, Jeff.  We don't need any more reasons to hate niggers.
!Not all black people are niggers either.  Some of them are honest,
!hardworking people.  You give them a good education and they won't
!always steal or scalp tickets.  They can be trained to be valuable
!members of society.


Nigger- Lazy,shiftless,dishonest,untrustworthy
I live in a town full of niggers, i wouldn't trust them with a dime, and I 
never leave the house without protection of some sort. I watch them carefully 
every time I see them because I know they would kick my ass if they caught me 
in a alley at night.
	regrettably all these niggers are white and all the black people up here are 
educating themselves. so tell me ....
who are the niggers?
the colour of your skin has no effect on the content of your character
--
\></<>\></<>\></<>\></<>\></<>\></<>\></<>\></<>\></<>\></<>\></<>\></
/<>\BLAK**TO**BASICS*********    \></ We Must Educate Our Own.    /<>\
\></ francois otherwise..        /<>\For Tomorrow Belongs To Those\></
/<>\></<>\></<>\></<>\></<>\></,>\></Who Prepare For It Today...../<>\
From: carl.camurca%travel@wugate.wustl.edu (Carl Camurca) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Does "Hi, I'm ____" equal
Date: 15 Sep 92 21:42:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Travel Online, St. Louis, MO
Reply-To: carl.camurca%travel@wugate.wustl.edu (Carl Camurca) 

DAA>.. and don't be Black and Gay!  I don't even look for role models anymore
DAA>because if it's a Black role model, most of the time he will be heterosexis
DAA>and if he's Gay (and White), I really doubt if he's looking out for me at a

You might try Carl Lewis <G>
If he would only come out of the closet!

DAA>I just have to be the best person I can be.  Saying that Gays have to be
DAA>straight-appearing to succeed in the real world is a slap in the face to me
DAA>Why do I want to look and act just like the status quo I'm supposed to be
DAA>destroying?  I'm not straight!  Just like I'm not White!

Hey, you are not the only one! What fun it is, to be Black and Gay and
make it in the society!
Slap in the faces of Whites, Slap in the faces of Heterosexists!
I *LOVE* destroying Republican arguments, same for heterosexist
arguments. I happen to have some respect because of my job. People start
getting problems, when they learn, that I do not fit in their patterns
of successfuls. <G>

DAA>Donald

A hug, Carl.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Tunten aller Laender, vereinigt euch!
                                                                            
Newsgroups: soc.culture.africa,soc.culture.african.american
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Monday, 14 Sep 1992 11:10:43 EDT
From: <3ZASIB3@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Remembering Steele
 <1992Sep12.165127.16223@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu>

Arthur Johnson's comment that a person cannot pick their parents is real
but the point is that parents *shape* a person's knowledge, values, etc.
Consequently, if one is raised in the *white experience* I would, generally
speaking, think them hardly qualified to be experts on what it means to be
black, particlularly since that white experience degrades black people.
In that sense, the point that not only his wife being white but his
mother as well speaks volumes.  Furthermore, his father raised Steele
with "Sam" as his alter ego which was intended to produce a dislike for
blacks who were *successful*.  Bob
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: stovall@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Steven Stovall)
Subject: Re: Lee: Skip work to attend Malcolm X
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Distribution: usa
Date:  8 Sep 92 21:42:02 GMT

HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:

>The Muj (as that crypto-fascist David Horowitz called them) may have
>kicked Russkie ass out of Afghanistan, but I still have major
>problems with them, as I do with Islam, around women's issues. Same
>with Iran, but of course, the wrong types of women went there trying
>to get Iranian women to eschew the chador...Betty Friedan for one.

Shoulda sent Cammie Fay Paglia :-) Anyway, the Sufi women from Iran
that I have met dont go in for all that...and I personally think there
is a lot of bondage in ultra-fundamentalist Islam, especially of the
Shiite flavor. Still...those guys can't *wait* to get to Allah
(to paraphase an old Richard Pryor routine).

_______________________________________________________________________________

steven stovall
stovall@exeter.cs.ucla.edu
(310) 825-7307
From: 01mawatson@bsu-ucs.uucp
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: MLK & U-2 & Disposable Heroes of Hip.
Date: 7 Sep 92 03:27:20 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Sep4.162224.20584@morrow.stanford.edu>, HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:
> In article <1992Sep4.000806.1@mscf.med.upenn.edu>,
> mills_j@mscf.med.upenn.edu writes:
>>
>>      I'd like to hear some opinions.  Do people think MLK is just out of
>>style now, but his message will endure?  What about all those young white
>>people cheering him?
> .
> .
> Some whites assume black looks (dreads, hip-hop, etc.) without
> changing one iota their minds about black people. They'll
> expropriate our culture without appreciating us, the makers and the
> creators.

I totally agree with this. I come from a very white town, and I see these
kids who, while driving through town, shout "nigger" if they see a
black person, while blaring Public Enemy from their car stereo. It's
truly sickening.

> .
> I think MLK is still important and relevant.  It may be a style to
> the young ones in the stadium.  Apparently, he means more than just
> a look to you.  I say, start reading some of the biographies on him,
> and appreciating where he came from--black folk.

I am one of those (not so) young ones in the stadium, and MLK is more than
just a style. (I can't speak for the kids who just picked up U2's latest
album...)
ALthough I agree that reading the biographies is a great idea. It just dawned
on me, after reading Malcolm X's autobiography this summer, that I really don't
know much about MLK as a person. It seems he's just one of these people I've
always respected, despite knowing very little about him. Looking back, it seems
my feelings about Martin and Malcolm were very much dictated by the brief
snipets of info you learn in history class. When  you don't study them in
depth, you get the idea that Martin was the great non-violent hero, while
Malcolm was the violent angry young man. Malcolm X's autobiography totally
changed that view for me.

I think I'll go read some books on MLK now...

-- 
 /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
< Michelle Watson                    "01mawatson@virgo.bsuvc.bsu.edu"  >
< Ball State University              "01mawatson@bsuvax1.bitnet"       >
<                                                                      >
< "Am I buggin' you? I don't mean t' bug ya..."  -Bono                 >
 \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
From: klawson@mainz-emh2.army.mil (Kelly LAWSON)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: X X: Fuck You Niggers
Date: 15 Sep 1992 08:32:20 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Excuse me, maybe I misunderstood.......

I think that this needs to be rephrased.  In my opinion, you train 
animals, not human beings.  How about saying "Given the opportunity,
*everyone* can learn to be valuable members of society."

Like I said, it's my opinion.  Thanks for listening!

Kelley


----- Forwarded message # 1:

************************
From: X X <djr48312@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: FUCK YOU NIGGERS

In article <65328@cup.portal.com> Fuck-Head@cup.portal.com (Jeff R Spangenberg) writes:                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^k

DO NOT REPLY TO ME.  I AM COPYING THIS FROM THE NEWSGROUP misc.forsale.computers
If you have a reply to this I believe mail either: 65328@cup.portal.com
or Fuck-Head@cup.portal.com  .

NOT ME, I am pointing this ignorant crap out.

ak>Vote for Jesse Jackson in 1992... He'll give us a REAL reason to 
>HATE THE FUCKING NIGGERS!!!
>
>
>
>FUCK YOU ALL!!

Fuck you too, Jeff.  We don't need any more reasons to hate niggers.
Not all black people are niggers either.  Some of them are honest,
hardworking people.  You give them a good education and they won't
always steal or scalp tickets.  They can be trained to be valuable
members of society.
***********************eof************************

XXXXXXX
soc-culture-african-american%cs.utexas.edu@vm1.nodak.edu

----- End of forwarded messages
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african.american:9218 soc.culture.african:4569
From: pvb@teal.csn.org (Phillips Bradford)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.african
Subject: Ota Benga - The Pygmy in the Zoo [concerning the book]
Keywords: Ota Benga, forest person, pygmy, pigmy, zoo, African, Verner
Date: 5 Sep 92 18:38:21 GMT
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.


Notice of reviews on "Ota Benga -the pygmy in the zoo". This book is reviewed
in the New York Times Book Review, Sept.6, page 3. Also in Esquire, Sept. issue
page 88. Book is a true story concerning an African forest person who was put
on exhibit in the primate house at the Bronx Zoo in 1906. It may be of interest
to historians of the period, African-American scholars, sociologists, and
anthropologists. Your comments about this book and/or its reviews are invited.
I am one of the co-authors of this book.


					Phillips Verner Bradford
					pvb@csn.org
-- 
Phillips V. Bradford, Sc.D.			office: (303) 620-4777
Executive Director				FAX: (303) 620-4789
Colorado Advanced Technology Institute		pvb@csn.org
1625 Broadway, Suite 700, Denver, CO 80202
From: djr48312@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (X X)
Subject: FUCK YOU NIGGERS
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 00:52:16 GMT


In article <65328@cup.portal.com> Fuck-Head@cup.portal.com (Jeff R Spangenberg) writes:                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^k

DO NOT REPLY TO ME.  I AM COPYING THIS FROM THE NEWSGROUP misc.forsale.computers
If you have a reply to this I believe mail either: 65328@cup.portal.com
or Fuck-Head@cup.portal.com  .

NOT ME, I am pointing this ignorant crap out.


ak>Vote for Jesse Jackson in 1992... He'll give us a REAL reason to 
>HATE THE FUCKING NIGGERS!!!
>
>
>
>FUCK YOU ALL!!

Fuck you too, Jeff.  We don't need any more reasons to hate niggers.
Not all black people are niggers either.  Some of them are honest,
hardworking people.  You give them a good education and they won't
always steal or scalp tickets.  They can be trained to be valuable
members of society.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Subject: Re: Lee: Skip work to attend Malcolm X
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:20:22 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.151722.12328@cs.ucla.edu>,
stovall@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Steven Stovall) writes:
>
>I was talking about things like ethical and moral certitude,
>courage, and like that, not technology. I am more interested in
>the inner qualities they showed in successfully conducting a
>protracted armed struggle that probably had a lot to do with
>the timing of the collapse of the Soviet Empire. Those qualities
>are not usually present in the kind of people who move and shake
>our (decadent) culture.
.
<other stuff deleted>
.
Ohhhhhh, no.  Not that "God is on our side" bullshit.  Code words!
Code words!  I'm sure the Ayatollah Helms says that stuff, too.
Watch your words, little Stevie.

Like I said, nothing wrong with trying to keep your autonomy as a
nation.  But sheesh.  Get a grip.
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Thursday, 10 Sep 1992 16:08:18 EDT
From: <3ZASIB3@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Steele's _The_Content_Of_Our_Character_
Distribution: na

I found Steele's book to be full of *s*.  His assumptions are all wrong.
To argue that blacks have a victim mentality is ludicrous, at least if
that assumes that discrimination is a thing of the past.  This country
owes blacks inclusion.  If that requires heroic efforts, so be it.
One would think that the "King incident and its aftermath" would on
its face negate Steele's assumption that Reagan and whites generally
are innocent.  When George Bush race-baits with Willie Horton, is that
innocent?  The problem is that Steele lives in a white world and his
white wife played a major role in the development of his ideas.  His
father taught him to hate less fortunate blacks such as "Sam." He got
   Rather than degrading black students at San Jose State, he should
be pushing the university to provide support so that they can suceed.
Besides, were it not for affirmative action he wouldn't have his job.
Black students in the '60s fought to open up that university.
    Shelby Steele is no more than a Clarence Thomas, who will vote to
put black people in ovens when the time comes.  As far as I'm concerned
his book helps to set that stage.  Besides, I want to see some of literary
work.  Particularly, since he was not trained for social analysis. Bob
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Subject: Re: Ota Benga - The Pygmy in the Zoo [concerning the book]
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 00:16:39 GMT

In article <BuBtty.EFC@csn.org>,
pvb@teal.csn.org (Phillips Bradford) writes:
>
>When we were searching through our sources to write "Ota Benga - the pygmy in
>the zoo." we came across a newspaper article which contained an interview with
>William Hornaday, the director of the Bronx Zoo in 1906. He was being asked by
>the news reporter if he was the first to exhibit a human being in a zoo. His
>reply was that it was not uncommon in Europe for there to be exhibits of
>primitive ethnic scenes featuring native peoples. In addition to Africans,
>there were American Indians, asians, polynesians, etc. Ethnic exhibits were
>also common at world's fairs, such as the Crystal Palace in London, the
>Columbian in Chicago, and especially the Louisiana Purchase Exhibition in St.
>Louis in 1904, where Ota Benga appeared with a troup of other Africans in such
>a native display. This is described in some detail in the book. The animal show
>impressario, Carl Hagenbeck, used to take wild animals on road show tours with
>extended visits at Coney Island and carnivals. He sometimes included ethnic
>exhibits of primitive peoples.
.
(other interesting information omitted)
.
.
This is a very painful subject.  I saw the review of your book in
a couple of the San Francisco recently and have seen it displayed in
the local bookstore.  I'm interested in reading it, but the idea of
a black person being exhibited in such a way, in cage with monkeys
or on the auction block, is appalling.  It may take me some time
before I have enough gumption to deal with it.
.
I read about Native Americans and other folk being displayed in
Europe by accident several years ago in reading a historical romance
novel set in the 17th century.
.
The black feminist critic bell hooks, in her book of essays "Black
Looks, Race and Representation," says that she found an account of a
black woman who had been popularly exhibited in such a manner (I do
not have the book here, so I cannot directly quote) that when she
died, she was stuffed and mounted and continued to be displayed in
Germany.
.
Alice Walker, in her book "The Temple of My Familiar," writes about
a black, native woman, the last of her clan, who was displayed with
her hut and her things about her in a museum.
.
Then there is the story of Ishi, the last "wild" California Indian.
I find it interesting that Ursula LeGuin's parents had a lot to do
with his story.
.
What is your motivation for writing about Ota Benga? and by
extension, your grandfather?  Exoneration?  Curiosity?  Politics?
.
Don't try to blind me with science.

gaby@forsythe.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: johnson@offroad.chem.wisc.edu (Arthur Johnson)
Subject: Re: Remembering Steele
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 16:51:27 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.204336.24642@morrow.stanford.edu>  
HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) writes:
> Responding to the previous posts regarding Shelby Steele:
 
     [...some stuff deleted...]
 
> Anything somebody of color decided to create in the Department was
> either co-opted and failing control, eventually destroyed.  I
> remember hearing of some minority grad students who put together an
> English study hall for those people of color needing help from other
> people of color, basically on their own time and using a Department
> room, but without the imprimatur of the Department office.  When
> certain faculty folk caught wind of this, especially when the study
> hall became worthwhile, they wrangled it away from the grad students
> and made it accessible to everybody.  Sometimes, you must
> understand, its important for people of color to get encouragement
> and help from each other.  This is not being separatist for its own
> sake, this is trying to save someones life.  Some people dont
> understand this and say that its discrimination in reverse.
> Bulltacos.
>
     So what did the faculty use as an "argument" to justify their taking  
control of the study hall? Property rights? Some bizarre technicality?
 
> I think Shelby Steele is basically a Richard Wright-type, black skin
> and white mind, and way out of touch after trying to escape
> from blackness.  Another example of a former radical going from one
> extreme to another.  His mother is white, too, and his white
> wife, by the way, is a shrink (and what a job she must have done on
> him). 

     Um, let's be a little careful about dissing someone for their  
ancestry. Contrary to popular new-age speculations, a person can't pick  
his/her parents before conception. Obsession with "racial" purity is a  
waste of time, IMO. The fact that his wife is white I find mildly  
interesting, but hey, there's no accounting for taste. :-) Now his wife  
being a shrink definitely might explain a lot of things (especially his  
frequent use of psychology to "explain" the behavior of black folks). I  
know he talks a lot about how universities need to face the reality of a  
lot of black students never finishing college. I wonder if he's doing  
anything personally about this (besides writing books and giving  
lectures). 
     Steele may very well be a white mind in a black skin, but then the  
next question that comes to mind is: just what IS a white mind, anyway?  
(Louie, this could be the beginning of a whole new interesting thread.)

  <vanish into a fogbank to the tune of the French national anthem>

Arthur Johnson
johnson@offroad.chem.wisc.edu
From: larry8@emx.cc.utexas.edu (Larry )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Black History Month Project
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:52:22 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin; Austin, Texas

There was a posting (that has already expired from my site) that requested
ideas for programs or presentations for Black History Month.  I'm not sure 
whether or not this would be too much trouble, but since there have not
been very many responses I thought I would go ahead and post this....

Steve Allen used to have a show called (I think) Meeting of the Minds in which
historical figures from different periods would sit around a table and talk
about various issues.  What about having a Black History 
Version of this show?  I don't remember whether the characters would discuss
current events on Allen's show, but I don't see why it would not be possible
to (for example) have a conversation between M.L. King, Malcolm X, Zora Neale
Hurston and Sojourner Truth in which they would discuss the Rodney King case and its aftermat
and its aftermath.  Of course, this would require a great deal of time and
effort in order to be successful, however, you could probably get some help
from the readers of s.c.a.a. (e.g. suggesting appropriate figures - it seems
to me that it would be a good idea to have people who have some differences
between them in order to provide a more lively conversation.  Also, I'm
guessing that if you were to post a draft of a script, the readers of this
group would include some people who would be knowledgeable enough to provide
some worthwhile criticisms).

Hoping this is idea is not entirely loopy,


Larry Gainor
Graduate School of Library and Information Science
UT-Austin
<larry8@emx.cc.utexas.edu>

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american