From: popec@unkaphaed.gbdata.com (William C. Barwell)
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush,a
Subject: Re: Lifestyle Choices and Secular Reasoning
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 06:34:23 GMT
Organization: Unka Phaed's UUCP Thingy, Houston, TX

kellmeye@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (kellmeyer steven l) writes:

> teddybur@netcom.com (John Sanger) writes:
> 
> >In article <C0B0Cu.Eu7@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> kellmeye@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (kellmeye
> >>harp@netcom.com (Gregory O. Harp) writes:
> >>
> >>>"SLK>" is "kellmeyer steven l"
> >>>"LCF>" is "Lawrence C. Foard"
> >>
> >>>SLK>Why is *secular* reasoning superior to religious reasoning? 
> >>
> >>>LCF>I'm sitting 10 feet from a machine that can produce 3d images of your
> >>>LCF>internal organs, it was designed by secular reasoning.
> >>
> >>>SLK>And it was designed in a country founded upon a belief in God.  The 
> >>>SLK>country founded upon atheism and a belief in man no longer exists.
> >>
> >>>REALLY?  Since when?  
> >>
> >>>The USA was founded mainly by atheists, and laws were put in its
> >>>charters to keep it that way.  Since then, we've moved farther away
> >>>from religious influence, not closer.  Take a look at the number of
> >>>judgements in the last few decades restricting things like prayer in
> >>>schools, etc.
> >>
> >>Greg, I have no idea where they attempted to teach you history, but
> >>I don't think those NoDoze worked.  Not by *ANY* stretch of overblown
> >>historical imagination were the founders of our country atheists.  
> >>That's simply wrong.  The judgments given in the last few decades prove
> >>not one thing about the founding fathers of this country - who would
> >>undoubtedly be appalled at the incredible way their ideals were twisted.
> >>
> 
> >Excuse me, but to my recallection Thomas Jefferson was an ATHEIST.
> 
> Excuse me, but your recallection (sic) is wrong.  He was a Deist.
> The only person I can think of off-hand that might begin to be called
> an atheist was Voltaire.  Even Rousseau held that there was a Supreme
> Being.  YOu are being anachronistic by asserting that there was 
> a school of thought that could be referred to as "atheism", as we know it,
> in the eighteenth century.  The question revolved around what God's 
> nature _was_, and to what degree God acted in every day life.  No one
> really began asserting that there was, in fact, no God at all 
> until Nietszche, although you might make a good case for Darwin after
> 1860.
> 
> >Ciao!
> >	John S. :^)
> >	teddybur@netcom.com
> >__
> 
> Steve Kellmeyer
> -- 
> 
> Steve Kellmeyer 
> kellmeye@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu


Voltaire was a deist.  Jefferson was a deist who probably became an 
atheist in his last days.  There was a atheist movement in the 18th 
century.  Baron D'Holbach, Dennis Diderot, many of the french 
'encyclopediests', and a movement in England also existed.  General Ethan 
Allen in America wrote the first full scale Atheist work, "Reason, The 
Oracle Of Man".  But it was not until the early 20th century that one 
could be an avowed atheist and avoid prison or extreme harrasment.
  No telling thus, how many really were Atheists but dared not say so.


Pope Charles   SubGenius Pope Of Houston    Slack!

--
popec@unkaphaed.gbdata.com (William C. Barwell)
Unka Phaed's UUCP Thingy, Houston, TX, (713) 481-3763
1200/2400/9600/14400 v.32bis/v.42bis
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh