HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: timlee@public.btr.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Racial Discrimination Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 26 Aug 92 07:21:38 GMT
Reply-To: timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american

fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
|shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
|>Would it be a betrayal of "people of color"?  Well, I suppose it would be a
|>betrayal to the extent that a second-generation Eastern or Southern
|>European kid is betraying the "people of color" by taking advantage of his
|>ability to look, sound, and act enough like the guys in power to get jobs,
|>promotions, and elected where a "person of color" would not be able to.
|
|Out of curiosity, how many jobs and promotions have you actually been denied?

You mean on the basis of race?  Obviously, he can't tell, regardless
of what the answer is, since no one these days is going to give that
reason, if it is that reason, for denying a job or promotion.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee                 timlee@btr.com  ...!decwrl!btr!timlee
This message comes with no warranty, not even an implied warranty of
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From: roten@CUBA.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Roten)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: What's happened to this newsgroup?
Date: 25 Aug 92 19:25:43 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: /cuba_b/dirbe/roten/.organization
X-Newsreader: GNU Emacs 18.57.1, GNUS 3.13, NNTP 3.10

In article <64596@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:

>... it's George Bush's fault, what do you think Arthur ...

>Hu me??

>The full term is Reagan/Bush and Racism/Sexism/Homophobia.

>But if you ask me, it's those damn godless liberal democrats.

>Actually I'm elated we've turned this sleepy pathetic bunch of
>nonverbal bookworms into a lively bunch of flamers. I never thought
>I'd ever live to see the day when Asians would be good at this sort
>of stuff. Keep it up guys, maybe those round-eyed types will do more
>reading of scas.am for laughs, and they'll see more crazy as-ams on
>wild rampages on alt.activsm, soc.motss, and wherever else.

But with the advent of Dwight, there is such effective _MOTIVATION_ !!  

Now if Joachim Martillo would just come back ....  ;->  

Maybe we could get Scott Horne to post to this group ... ;->  

Or perhaps Harel Barzilai ? ... ;->  

Or maybe even Hasan B. Mutlu ?  .. Naah !!  No such luck.  I guess we 
will have to be content (!?!?!?!) with Dwight.  

--
Charles Roten | Hughes-STX, Incorporated | 
  roten@cuba.gsfc.nasa.gov               | 'Use the Source, Luke!'
  7601 Ora-Glen Dr., Greenbelt, MD 20706 | 
  301-513-7805 (w),  301-317-0872 (h)    |            Obi-Wan Stallman
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, clueless old white boy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Degrees of racism (was Re: Caucasians don't understand)
Date: 31 Aug 92 15:50:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23594
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, clueless old white boy)
Distribution: na
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <1992Aug31.030738.29613@panix.com> sieh@panix.com (Twinkie Chinkie) writes:
>anything, it shows that racism affects a
>lot of people and regardless of color and ethnicity.  Furthermore, those who
>have been affected will want to see that it doesn't happen to them again and
>work to change it.  And, it's better to talk to thse people than to people
>who don't care because they haven't experienced racism before and who are
>probably more resistant to change.

And this is my point about separatism.  If you choose to be separatist,
and adopt a jingoistic "whites are evil" cant like Dodwy (like it or
not, that's what he's saying he's decided), you will alienate these people
and get neither their help nor the value of their experiences.

In addition, you will have a very hard time convincing them that you
aren't what they hate, i.e. racists.  The answer that Sze and Jackson
provide is "we don't care, it doesn't matter".  I suggest that
history, eastern, western, and african, suggests that "we don't care"
is the fastest way to a war outside of religion.
-- 
 Bush    *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   vs       *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
 Clinton  --    *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 Just Say !NO!       *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, clueless old white boy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:22:29 GMT
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, clueless old white boy)
Distribution: soc
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <1992Sep1.122629.19484@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:

>  Point is that since you do not consider yourself American, then
>  you have no political power here.  You're a visitor, and we'll
>  tolerate you as a visitor.  But you can't go around telling
>  Americans to get lost.  Most likely they'd tell you to get lost.

What obvious hypocracy.  First, you tell him "delete as a viewpoint",
because he's not the right type, ergo he's not human.  Because
you don't like his "type", you discount him.  In other words,
you only listen to "the right type".

Then you tell him he has no political power.  You tell him that
he doesn't belong because he's a "visitor", and you wil "tolerate"
him.  You tell him he is forbidden from telling "Americans"
to "get lost", in the context of his telling them that they can
just accept him as he is.  You tell him, a-priori, that they will
tell him to get lost.  Heck, if he listens to a few more good
'merkins like you, maybe he'll believe you, using YOU as the proof
of the fact.

How does it feel to be your own conclusive proof that americans
are bigots, Clare?
-- 
 Bush    *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   vs       *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
 Clinton  --    *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 Just Say !NO!       *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
From: wung@eecom.gatech.edu (Peter Wung)
Subject: Re: Rising Sun: Yelling "Fire!" in Crowded
Reply-To: wung@eecom.gatech.edu
Organization: School of EE, Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, GA
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:42:45 GMT

In article 25809@dog.ee.lbl.gov, yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang) writes:
>|Related to the movie "Rising Sun",
>|<l9q7mgINNeur@male.EBay.Sun.COM> tooka@train.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>|
>|>Again we are back to that same old bugger: Moral Responsibility vs. Freedom of Speech
>|>
>|>I am all for free expression and free speech. But when I know or suspect that
>|>what I say may be too socially volatile or controversial for certain members 
>|>of society to interpret or deal with reasonably--then I hold it back.
>|>
>|>Remember the old Oliver Wendell Holmes principle: Free Speech does not apply to
>|>those yelling "Fire!" in a crowded movie house?
>|>
>|
>|(clip, clip)
>|
>|>
>|>A Japan-Bashing Movie on the other hand could have a more instantaneous impact--
>|>which I don't want to think about.
>|>
>|>Movies are accessible for a larger audience--many of which are
>|>less critical, many of which could be younger and more impressionable,
>|
>|I remember a movie I saw while on a business trip a year or so back
>|with Michael Douglas as a New York cop who goes to Japan and gets 
>|tangled up with the yakuza (forgot the title).  There were a lot 
>|of bizarre scenes - men cutting off their own finger, Douglas' buddy 
>|getting decapitated by a samurai-wielding yakuza on a motorcycle, 
>|unfeeling Japanese police officials who don't comprehend Douglas' 
>|need for revenge, machine gun battles through the rice fields, etc.
>|
>|I know it was just a movie, but what effect will an accumulation of
>|such images have on an American audience with a limited knowldege of 
>|Japan  ?
>|
>|Joe Huang


The movie is called "Black Rain" and it sucked.
---
****************************************************************************
*Peter Wung				Email:wung@ee.gatech.edu	   * 
*Electric Power Laboratory		Snail mail: 33787 Ga. Tech Station * 
*School of Electrical Engineering		    Atlanta, GA 30332      *
*Georgia Institute of Technology				    	   *        *Atlanta, Georgia							   *
*   	"Pass, Set, CRUSH!"...						   * 
*  	Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad for a short, fat guy.  		   *
*									   *
****************************************************************************

Newsgroups: git.club.chinese,soc.culture.asian.american
From: wung@eecom.gatech.edu (Peter Wung)
Subject: Elaine Chao named to head United Way
Reply-To: wung@eecom.gatech.edu
Organization: School of EE, Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta, GA
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 18:43:46 GMT

Here is something I got from the USA-Today newsgroup, without permission, of course.

Pete Wung


In article 055907@AmeriCast.com, usa-post@AmeriCast.Com () writes:
>|DECISIONLINE: News
>|USA TODAY Update
>|Aug. 27, 1992
>|Source: USA TODAY:Gannett National Information Network
>|CHAO MOVES TO UNITED WAY:
>|   Peace Corps Director Elaine Chao, the highest ranking 
>|Asian-American in the Bush administration, will quit to become 
>|president of the United Way of America. Chao, 38, a China native 
>|who came to the USA in 1961, will leave the Peace Corps post by 
>|November. United Way has struggled since February to regain public 
>|trust weakened by accusations against former president William 
>|Aramony.
>|    
>|    
>|    
>|News Editor: Kate Coughlin. (1-919-855-3491) Making copies of USA 
>|TODAY Update (Copyright, 1992) for further distribution purposes 
>|violates federal law.
>|
>|This article is copyright 1992 Gannett News Service.  Redistribution to
>|other sites is not permitted except by arrangement with American 
>|Cybercasting Corporation.  For more information, send-email to 
>|usa@AmeriCast.COM



---
****************************************************************************
*Peter Wung				Email:wung@ee.gatech.edu	   * 
*Electric Power Laboratory		Snail mail: 33787 Ga. Tech Station * 
*School of Electrical Engineering		    Atlanta, GA 30332      *
*Georgia Institute of Technology				    	   *        *Atlanta, Georgia							   *
*   	"Pass, Set, CRUSH!"...						   * 
*  	Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad for a short, fat guy.  		   *
*									   *
****************************************************************************

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: andrew@ice.TTI.COM (too cold)
Subject: Why does JJ read scaa?
Reply-To: andrew@ice.TTI.COM (too cold)
Organization: Transaction Technology, Inc.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 18:17:46 GMT

I have to admit that I don't read keep up with this group
all that well, but I have noticed that it seems that JJ
is always having a fight with someone about white this 
or white that.  

As I understand it, JJ is a white man with an Asian American
wife, right?

Well, I was just curious, JJ, why do you read and post to
this group?  I am just curious and would appreciate insight
into your motivation.  I would also appreciate it if you 
would take this question seriously and not just say "because
I can" or something facetious.  Thanks.

- Andrew
From: rhlu@ux5.lbl.gov (richard lu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Michael Woo, L.A. mayoral candidate
Date: 27 Aug 92 22:40:01 GMT
Reply-To: rhlu@ux5.lbl.gov (richard lu)
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: ux5.lbl.gov



>>Michael Woo came across as being quite personable and energetic.

>Woo is from my high school (anyone out there alum of AHS?  ;^) ).

Wow.  The first time I heard of Woo was last Monday, when I started
orientation for the graduate program in City Planning at Cal.  Evidently,
Woo got his MCP here not too long ago.  The entire faculty is absolutely
abuzz about his candidacy.  I've only had 4 lectures, but his name has
come up 4 times!

From what I gather from the faculty, Woo is amongst the "new breed" of
planners.  The whole hubbub about his running for mayor isn't just
b/c he's a favorite son or b/c he's asian, but simply b/c planners as
a rule don't run for office.  Everyone is so excited here b/c they 
_know_ his qualifications and they _know_ firsthand of his incredible
abilities; for the first time, someone with his knowledge has had the
goal of improving urban/regional problems on such a public level.

Although his ethnicity and his background may weigh against him ("planning"
is a very dirty word to fundmentally traditional Americans), I hope
he makes it! (Yup, I'm biased).    

Now if I could only change my address for an LA one...  :)

-rich
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions...
Date: 4 Sep 92 16:31:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: oakhill.1992Sep4.163115.25316
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com (Neither Kind Nor Gentle)
Distribution: na
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.

In article <1992Sep4.124804.4573@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>  Oh my, I must have inadvertently smeared you somewhere.  As far as I'm
>  concerned the only thing you have in common with JJ is that you're both
>  male.

Well... I can think of at least ONE more trait that those two have in common.
Kind of a superficial commonality, if you will, but one that does get noticed
in a newsgroup like this.  :-) :-)  Now, what could that trait be, what..
could..it..be...  :-) :-)


That's right, both did (or are doing) their undergraduate work at the same
school.  :-)

>  I must have made a sexist smear when I said that "men can't make
>  up their minds."  Sorry guys, it should have been "Some men can't make
>  up their minds."  And it certainly doesn't automatically follow that
>  "men are evil sub-human beings."  :-)

HOW DARE YOU make slanderous comments like that against all men!!  Don't you
know that when you smear ONE man, you are in effect saying that men are
sub-human, thus smearing ALL men?  You do regard men as sub-human toys for
you to play around with and abuse, don't you?  And how do you explain this
comment about not being able to make up our minds, eh Clare?  Why, men can be
just as decisive as women!  We can, uh, we can, uh, well, I was going to say
something here but maybe I shouldn't.  Well, maybe, uh, well, hmm, oh ok, I'll
say it.  Naww, wouldn't be prudent.  Oh well, I'll think about it tonight and
decide by Monday whether or not it'd be appropriate.

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Kinder and Indecisive Jim

p.s. Something similar happened to me once as an undergrad.  I was signing up
     for a summer school class, then decided to cancel, filled out the
     cancellation form, then two days later came right back and asked the
     woman behind the desk if I could un-cancel my cancellation.  She said,
     "Sure!  Don't you know it's a man's prerogative to change his mind?"
     He he he.  So true, so true...
From: timlee@public.btr.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: AA milk commercial (was Re: Surviving in a White Man's world)
Date: 26 Aug 92 07:38:47 GMT
Reply-To: timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Distribution: na

kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go) writes:
|jpak@manute.sps.mot.com (Kinder and Gentler Milk Drinker) writes:
|>In article <3725@randvax.rand.org> edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall) writes:
|>>It's a milk commerical, of all things.  There was an earlier milk commercial
|>>with an Asian woman (I believe the same actress) as a substitute teacher.
|>>
|>>The nice thing about these commericals is that any race could have been
|>>cast in these roles without change, and that the situations are so, well,
|>>American.  ("Honey, get the camera!  Daddy's little girl is walking!")
|>
|>Yup!  I agree.  I love that commercial.
|>
|>However, does it have nationwide distribution?  I've never seen it in Austin;
|>I've only seen it when I visit California.
|
|It's shown in Houston.  I like the commercial, too, even with the AF/CM
|couple.

The California commercials all featured same-race couples (white,
black, asian).

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee                 timlee@btr.com  ...!decwrl!btr!timlee
This message comes with no warranty, not even an implied warranty of
fitness for any particular purpose.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 05:04:50 GMT

In article <SHAW.92Aug26002432@whopper.lcs.mit.edu> shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu
(Andy Shaw) writes:
>...
>But those are the facts, and you and I (and Arthur Hu and Dwight Joe and
>Judy Tseng, etc.) are bound together by forces that we do not necessarily
>like or want.  Frankly, I don't like the fact that you and I face an equal
>chance of: being beaten to death because of our skin color, being denied a
>job or promotion due to preconceptions of "lack of leadership potential"
>(i.e. not being white), being denied political representation because of an
>utter lack of organization, being denied entry to certain colleges because
>of "over-representation", etc., etc., etc.
>...

Frankly, I don't know why the hell my name even appears in this.  I've
never met Mr. Hu, Ms. Tseng, Mr. Sieh, nor Mr. Shaw.  I have no idea
what their skin color is, and they have no idea what my skin color is
either.

But when I do look in the mirror, I suppose that I do see my skin color.
I say, "Gee.  I'm an American."

Afterwards, depending on how cold my room is, I'll grab one or two
flags of China and ignite them to help start a fire in my fire place.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 26 Aug 92 05:58:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: whopper.SHAW.92Aug26005818
	<23536@alice.att.com> <78363@ut-emx.uucp>
Organization: MIT Lab for Computer Science, Cambridge, Mass.

In article <78363@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
   One of the reasons I don't believe in the existence of a unified
   "white majority" is that it goes against my experiences at the
   Southern high school I went to. 

I don't necessarily believe in the existence of a "unified white majority"
either.  You don't need a "unified white majority" in order to have a
society where not being white is a major disadvantage.  You don't _need_ a
conspiracy theory to explain the fact that you are at a disadvantage when
you are a member of a minority group.

I did not think it was a "conspiracy" when four white male posters (Ed
Hall, Michael Kamprath, James Waldrop, and Mike Fester) attacked me for my
attacks on another white poster (JJ), which had nothing to do with race.  I
attacked JJ for using an alias and four white posters attacked me, and no
Asian posters attacked me.  Why?  The whole argument was about aliases and
accountability -- certainly not about JJ's being white.  There was no
"white cabal" -- just a few white guys trying to discredit someone they
considered a threat to their own credibility.  That's all it takes -- no
"secret societies", "unified majorities", "cabals" or "conspiracies" --
just a bunch of individuals making choices which will strengthen or
maintain their own positions in society.

   It my high school the student body
   was basically divided into "white mass," "black mass," and a "social
   elite" that was mostly (90%) white, but did contain some Asians and a
   few blacks.  (I'm simplifying the actual situation, because there were
   a lot of groups and sub-groups and the boundaries between the groups
   wasn't completely distinct.)

Maybe you should explain the racial percentages of the high school as a
whole, and then explain how people entered the "social elite".  Was the
"social elite" racially representative of the general population of the
school?  If not, why not?

   It was a social class structure, and if you a member of the social
   elite, you were much better off than if you were a member of the
   "white mass" which in turn was generally better off than if you were a
   member of the "black mass."

   And if you happen to find yourself in the social elite, your race was
   quite irrelevant.

Wonderful.  First, let me in.  Secondly, too bad for the rest of the "black
mass" and "yellow handful" who don't have it as well as the "white mass".

-Andy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: maridai@ecs.comm.mot.com (Marida Ignacio)
Subject: RE: Perceptions...
Organization: Motorola Land Mobile Products Sector
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:28:27 GMT


Perceptions 3; Reality 3

There were some questions about being judgemental in article 10868.

I used the term directly instead of going around the bush whenever I
would be teaching morality, sex, dignity, purity, etc. to somebody (I would
care for).  I know that if I cite an example for each of the above, I have 
to mention the other side of the story.  That of which could be a drug addict, 
a thief, a murderer, a liar, etc.  All these terms are by itself judgemental
(derogatory) if utilized verbally even if it were not intended towards anybody 
in particular during the teaching session.  Just like somebody is judging my 
utilization of the word 'judgemental' right now and in article 10849 without 
he/she intending to be judgemental.

Get it?


Perceptions 4; Reality 4

One word in - another word out.
Sorry if you misinterpreted my real implications.


I have always wanted to be unbiased.  They were directed to both sides in
general - insiders and outsiders of s.c.a.a.



                                




Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gwu@nujoizey.tcs.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re: Krawalle in Rostock Deutschland
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems Inc.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:50:24 GMT

-
     Long, long before the Iron Curtain came down, Newsweek did an
article on the resurgence of Neo-Nazis and Skinheads in Europe.  The
two countries most cited were Great Britain and East Germany.  Since
the reunification, I've also read East Germany did not undergo the
same painful catharsis/guilt/introspection imposed by Allied forces
upon West Germany at the conclusion of World War II.  It would appear
the disintegration of the East Block will unleash far more virulent
strains of hatred.  (Witness Croatia/Serbia/etc.)

						George

----
George J Wu, Software Engineer         | gwu@tcs.com or uunet!tcs!gwu
Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc. | (510) 649-3700
2121 Allston Way, Berkeley, CA, 94704  | Never be the first to believe . . .