From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: men's spirituality (was Re: New Pagans and Reading)
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:26:22 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

ymir@eagles.uucp (Ymir Thunarsson) writes:
: > >
: > > >   Looks like you've gone and stuck your foot in your mouth this time
: > > > Men created women's mysteries, just for the record, not women.

They did? Do you believe that all women follow Gardner or the other Wiccan
faiths that are outshoots of the Gardnerian tradition? If so, you know little
about women's spirituality.

: > > > So now you ask yourself, why? To make money of course. Remember the
: > > > Gardner? Alexander? Ring a bell? Throw a little Golden Dawn in there
: > > > have todays wicca. And of course let's not forget Buckland. He's get
: > > > rich off of females like yourself. Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not k
: > > > wicca, I used to be wiccian myself. Until I decided to find the "TRU

See above. Wicca, and (in particular) the versions you have been exposed to,
do not make up Wicca - only a small subset. Neither necessarily have anything
to do with womens mysteries or spirituality.

: > > > religion. Now I am a member of the Asatru community. And VERY happy.
: > > > what I was looking for. Yes, I still worship the Lord and Lady, but
: > > > truer form. I call them Freyr and Freyja. We also have male mysterie
: > > > Asatru. For all you manly men out there searching. Odin was the most
: > > > mysterious of the Gods. Through him you may find those mysteries you
: > > > to be missing.

Ah yes, the "True" Asutra. Where have I heard that before? Odin is mysterious?
No more so than many other gods.


: intended not to heal, teach or inform but only to hurt. What Hulda said may
: have injured your pride and hurt your feelings...but she also does not live
: by the Wiccan Rede as you profess to do. If you truly believe "...And It Harm

Hah! Hulda hurt Ailsa's pride or feelings? Not bloody likely - it takes 
someone a lot sharper witted than her, or you, to do that. 

: None..." you have violated this trust in a very "common" and mean spirited
: manner. I hope as you read your own missive you will see the hate implied

I suggest that you do not try to apply your interpretation of the Rede to
everyone else. Yours is far too restrictive. If a person lived by it, they
would not be able to associate with anyone. 

Yes, Ailsa is spirited. I would be disappointed if she wasn't. However, I
don't see where there was any hatred in her posting. Maybe a bit of intolerance
for fools - but, many of us have that problem.

: there, as well as, your constant "typos" (or do you just not know how to spell)
: and try to temper your own zeal with a little common sense and maturity.

What does spelling have to do with anything of importance?

: Whether Hulda was right or wrong in her posting is not at issue here. That

Oh, but it is. Any posting here is to a public forum. As such, it is open
to any type of response that a person wishes to make.

: is for later discussion to determine. What is at issue is your "own"
: lack of class and good common sense. I do not wish to *FLAME* you but you
: have brought this reprimand upon yourself. Also, for your information, I

OOOhhhhh! Reprimand!  Do you see that Ailsa? You are being reprimanded!
My, guess you had better watch out - next time it will be a sever reprimand.
I am certain your sensitive ego would not be able to withstand such an
assault by such a strong manly man. Heh! Heh!

: am not anti-wiccan and neither is Hulda if the truth be known. Her opinions
: on certain aspects of wicca (esp. Dianic) are formed from the personal
: experiences she has had within these circles. Some of them I have first hand
: knowledge of since I would occassionally be a visiting "Lord" to her former
: coven's circles. Try to understand where some of these "feelings" come from
: before you begin to run off at the mouth. Now that I have compleated my
: soapbox...Try not to think of Hulda or myself as an enemy. Think of us 
: instead of people that belive differently than you do and say so. There
: is no need for a war of words. I would much prefer to exchange information
: about each others belief on a more friendly and constructive basis. I hope
: you will see things the same way. If not...you have to live with that 
: decision! BLESSED BE AND BE POSITIVE!

If you had wanted to be positive, you would have made that response by
e-mail and not posted it to the net.  Hypocrite.

Bill
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