HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: LDRS Feedback (short form)
Date: 20 Aug 92 00:30:19 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Aug19.213916.9710@axis.dsg.ti.com>, barrett@add.itg.ti.com writes:
>   Whether the contributor is an individual, manufacturer, dealer, or
> distributor, *any* size donation is welcome and needed!  Checks should
> be made out to:
> 
>                    Tripoli Rocketry Assoc.*Legal Fund*
>                  (be sure the check references Legal Fund!)

>                        Tripoli Rocketry Association
>                    c/o Scott Dingman
>                        P.O. Box 339
>                        Kenner, LA  70063-0339
> ***** End Ed LaCroix's message

>   One important issue here is that Tripoli and the NAR are working
> together on this.  This is a hobby problem, not just NAR or Tripoli (or
> Aerotech or Estes).  All legal funds collected from Tripoli, NAR, and
> the manufacurers will go to pay the same law firm.  I would suggest that
> C.D.  Tavaris give a contact for NAR members to donate there $'s (I
> wrote a $100 check).

Just use the address above.  NAR is not drop-shipping the funds, or
anything, just cooperating in publicizing the existence of the fund to
our members.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu (A. Roger Wilfong)
Subject: Re: RE: B14's
Organization: U of Michigan - Information & Networking Services
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 10:45:31 GMT

Let me start by saying that while I prefer the longest burn motor suitable for
the application, the B14 will always be one of my favorite motors.  Way back
when, it was the 'big' motor and could get a piece of BT60 moving like nothing
else could.

In article <1992Aug12.195419.7488@primerd.prime.com> Jim Cook
<J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM> writes:
loaded in a more convensional fashion.
>
>Aerotech now makes an 18mm reloadable casing.  I don't remember if they
>make any "B" size reloads for it, but they certainly make coreburners in
>other sizes.  

Yes, there is a B6 load for the 18mm.  Having seen the C6 reloads, I guess that
the B6 is 1/4 the length of the D24 grain (the C6 is 1/2 of the D13 grain).  A
B6 just isn't going to have the B14's 'bang'.
From: enders@bolshoi.cc.misu.NoDak.edu (Todd Enders)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Rockets on Radar
Date: 20 Aug 92 04:13:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.19796
Reply-To: enders@bolshoi.uucp

R. Cage writes
> At 2.45 GHz (the frequency used by X-band police radars), the
     ^^^^------- 10.525 GHz  K-band is 24.125 GHz.  Wavelength of X-band
is ca. 3 cm.

> wavelength is about 12 centimeters.  A half-wave is about 6 cm,
> or roughly 2.4 inches.  If you stick 2.4 inch bits of foil to
> the body tube *and fins*, you should be able to track the rocket
> nicely regardless of its orientation using an X-band radar.
> 
> My favorite scheme for velocity measurement involves a dipole
> with a diode in it, to create harmonics.  The rocket can be
> illuminated with one antenna, and the doppler shift of the
> re-radiated harmonics can be used to measure its radial speed.
> Measuring distance would be a bit more difficult, but doable.
> 
> Russ (I had to pass tests on this stuff for my ham license and BS.)

    Measuring the doppler shift was used for early sounding rocket tracking
(also called "dovap")  A reference from "200 Miles Up" describes it thusly:

     "This method involves the use and analysis of radio frequencies.  A radio
signal, utilizing a certain frequency, is transmitted from the ground while
the rocket is in flight.  This signal is received by the rocket and by 
several ground stations.  The rocket contains radio equipment which takes the
incoming, doubles its frequency, and retransmits it back to the ground
stations.  These stations mix the doubled frequency as received from the rocket
with a ground-generated frequency twice that of the original ground signal.
In other words, the doubled frequency from the rocket is compared with the
original frequency as doubled by the ground stations.  Differences between
doubled frequencies transmitted by the rocket and those of the ground stations
will evidence themselved by doppler frequencies or beats.  These are fed into a
recording station where they are translated into rocket position and speed
information."  ("200 Miles Up - The Conquest of the Upper Air", J. Gordon
Vaeth,  Ronald Press, New York, 1956)

     This technique was used on some of the V-2 flights, at least one Aerobee
(#8, Nov. 1948), and probably several other rockets/flights.

Todd          enders@bolshoi.uucp
              uunet!bolshoi!enders
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: Jim Cook <J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM>
Subject: Re: Kevlar rockets (was: Re: HPR thoughts & questions...)
Reply-To: <J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM>
Organization: Prime Computer, Inc.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:47:11 GMT


Be careful in sanding this stuff.  I read somewhere (an NCR report?) that
graphite splinters, from which you can get slivers.  The slivers don't dissolve
or go away easily.  I'm not sure about Kevlar.

Just a word to the wise.
Jim

Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: Kevlar rockets (was: Re: HPR thoughts & questions...)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:37:07 GMT

In article <IeWIwe600Uh_Q3X3Ml@andrew.cmu.edu> Lawrence Curcio <lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>In my younger, foolish days, I used to roll fibergalss *motor* tubes. I
>also used fibergalss in model airplane construction. There was one
>fundamental difficulty in tube construction that didn't complicate model
>airplanes: what to do with the edge of the glass cloth. 

As a matter of fact, the few (two!) composite motor cases I've seen
seemed to be some kind of graphite composite tube. In fact, when the
owner told me they were "composite motors" I thought he was referring
to the casing!




-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
From: enders@bolshoi.cc.misu.NoDak.edu (Todd Enders)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: ARCAS Performance...
Date: 22 Aug 92 22:50:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.19841
Reply-To: enders@bolshoi.uucp

Robert B. Sisk writes

> I have never seen an O motor, but an article in the Tripolitan about
> BALLS 001 (I think) described one O or P motor as weighing about 100 lbs.
> 
     I'd suspect this would have been a full-total-impulse P motor.  I'd
also guess an O *probably* wouldn't weigh a whole lot more than 20 kg (44 Lb.).
Of course, everything depends on the casing construction and propellant used.

> Bob
> -- 

Todd          enders@bolshoi.uucp
              uunet!bolshoi!enders
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Flipping out
Date: 15 Aug 92 06:53:22 GMT
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd., Livermore, CA

As mentioned in my previous post, I've come up with a way to
get your Astrocam photos printed correctly.

The tricky part is to find a 1 hr photo place that still does
110 film (in our area, only one of the half dozen or so in
the phone book advertized that they do).

Have the film processed normally which means, of course, that
the images will be reversed. If any of the flight (or ground
photos for that matter) came out well, then hand the negatives
back to the service droid and ask him/her to make some reprints
with the negative flipped. The key is that you're talking to 
the person who'll be pushing the buttons so you can watch them
do it.

The gal running the machine didn't understand a word of my
explanation, but when I showed her a ground shot that included
some writing on it (the North Coast Rocketry banner at NARAM)
she knew just what to do.

If there's no one else ahead of you in the processing queue, they
can do this while you wait (it only takes abt 5 minutes) and if
they screw it up, you can refuse the print and they'll try again.

Worked like a charm.

- Jack

=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
||               "Do or not do. There is no try." - Yoda                   ||
=============================================================================
From: row0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (RICHARD O. WHITE)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: NARAM26 - Info needed ,dates and contact person
Date: 13 Aug 92 14:03:00 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University


 Old timer to model.rocket, newbie to the net
Anyway I reside in Upper Bucks County Pa.
and would like to know if any clubs exists in the A.B.E.
area. would like to obtain a contact person for NARAM 26
( Allentown , Pa.) Phila. clubs to inconvenient..
I just recieved my membership in NAR (#56980) no Motor
Cer. as of yet. Hope to get involved in a more professonal
context than in my youthful years.(nooo... nothing illegal
 :) just lunched [Estes and Jetex] on my own with a buddy or two.
no wavers ect.) Hope to hear from yah all. E_mail or post
on the net ..............Thanks in advance
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: New AmSpam Editor?
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:23:10 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <YeYtvcW00WB2ARXFMP@andrew.cmu.edu>, lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Lawrence Curcio) writes:
> Just a comment here: AMSPAM policy makes it an unattractive proposition
> to contribute. You send in an article and it immediately becomes their
> property. They don't tell you whether it was rejected or not, and even
> if it is accepted, you see nothing for months. In any case, you lose all
> the rights. Why not contibute to, say, PROBE instead?

First off, all commercial magazines (there may be exceptions, but I don't know
of any) say that submissions are their property.  If you want rejected material
back, you include an SASE, and it becomes your property again.  So in short,
it's only the magazine's property if accepted and printed, or if not requested
back (in which case they may save it in a file to be printed later).

The fact that you don't hear about acceptance or rejection is not a feature, 
but a bug that we will stress to the new Editor. 

The fact that you see nothing for months is mostly a function of the lead time, 
including second-class mailing, and few magazines will do better.  Does PROBE?
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu
Subject: Re: What do I need to get something into orbit?
Organization: U of M Hospitals
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 10:59:35 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.201348.4141@nmsu.edu> pfeiffer@nmsu.edu (Joe Pfeiffer)
writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.161340.4896@ultb.isc.rit.edu> jsvrc@rc.rit.edu (J A
Stephen Viggiano) writes:
>
>
>   You _can't_ put a model rocket (see the current definitions) into orbit, at
>   least not if you launch it from ground level. I guess you could do what Jay
>   Apt did, and take one aboard a Shuttle flight, but I don't think this is
what
>   you have in mind . . . . :-)
>
>I never heard about this -- what happened here?
>
>-Joe.
>
As part of the personal stuff he took with him on his shuttle mission was an
Estes Astron Mark built for him by Vern Estes.  Jay presented the Mark to Vern
at NARAM-33 and it now resides in Vern's Model Rocket Museum.  Jay also took
the NAR Champion Section flag along.
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Estes composites (was Where did my rocket go??)
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:27:57 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <BtAF99.8vv@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:
> >> Do the competitors build their own motors?
> 
> >If they do, they are violating the rules.  I suspect many countries
> >just have "small-volume professional" manufacturers like Vulcan.
> 
> I find this an interesting thread because in the other aviation
> modelsports the Eastern Europeans (and the Chinese!) depend on 
> hand-bulit rather than mass produced items.
> I imagine it would be different for rocket motors. There would 
> be DOT to contend with for one  9-)

One of the tenets of MODEL rocketry is that you don't screw with 
propellants yourself unless you're a professional manufacturer.
You won't find such a tenet in the other hobbies.

However, Bob Biedron says some of them do anyway.  It's not clear if
they do it solely as modelers, or as pros who happen to also be modelers.
In any event, I think it diminishes the hobby somewhat.  We don't allow
the American team to do that (and we have been asked).
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: New AmSpam Editor?
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:18:16 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <550@rml.UUCP>, jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty) writes:
> I was talking with Peter Alway last night (about contributing my
> Titan data to his new book) and he tells me that Larry Shenosky
> is no longer editor of the magazine. This is all he knew and has
> no idea as to how production of the next issue will be done.
> Any clues out there? 

Send them to Steve Weaver, 1202 Mosswood Court, Florence KY 41042;
800-352-8611.  He was already the magazine producer; now he is the
editor as well.  The move was made because people were having chronic
problems getting hold of Larry, or getting calls returned by him.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Very low thrust motors?
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:50:40 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <868@daisy.WichitaKS.NCR.COM>, msjohnso@daisy.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Mark Johnson) writes:
> >I am under the impression that Aerotech is using the 'Jetex exemption' in
> >claiming that their 32mm Phoenix motor is 'legal'.  As fas as I know, the Jetex
> >is the only reloadable/reusable rocket motor that has been accepted by a
> >government agency as 'safe'.
> 
> Not exactly...Aerotech has applied for (and received) a stay of enforcement
> from the relevant government agencies regarding their entire line of 
> reloadable product. They are technically still illegal, but AT is allowed to
> market them pending approval of a permanent regulation change, which has 
> been applied for. 

You're both half right.  AeroTech CLAIMS that its Phoenix motor is "an 
airplane engine, not a rocket engine" and therefore can be flown under
different rules (e.g., they argue you could fly one in Massachusetts,
although you couldn't legally fly any other reloadable there).  Now, does
anyone in the government know that, let alone agree with it?  From AT's
track record at exploiting loopholes, my guess would be NO.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets,alt.models,rec.models.rc
From: Iskandar Taib <NTAIB@ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: R/C and C/L Scale World Champs this weekend at Muncie
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 05:52:01 GMT

Hi all

Just thought I'd remind everyone in case anyone reading lives in the 
vicinity. The venue will be the new AMA National Flying Site at Muncie,
IN. I'll be heading up there tomorrow morning to see if the Russians 
will show up with their big C/L Antonov transports with the variable 
pitch props and in-line Krasnoroutsky glow engines (the cylinder is in 
the same line as the crankshaft for a beautiful fit in a "turboprop"
nacelle.


(My newsreading machine is down so this post will appear weird to those
who have seen my postings...)


Iskandar Taib
ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: What do I need to get something into orbit?
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:25:12 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Aug14.213702.28349@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, jsvrc@rc.rit.edu (J A Stephen Viggiano) writes:
> >Does anyone have any information on getting a model rocket into
> >orbit? No payload, just the rocket would be enough.
> 
> >And if you did, how would you know you succeeded? 8-) No payload, remember?
> 
> Trip suggested heat-sensitive paint -- paint that changed color when exposed
> to different temperatures. I think he found something that changed color
> more or less permanently. He explained aerodynamic heating, and provided
> a few figures for various Mach numbers.

Um, Trip was talking about supersonic model rocketry, not orbital model 
rocketry.  I mean, how are you going to get up there to examine the paint?!

> Or you could do what Lonnie Reese did when he came out with his Thunderbolt.
> He had the Missouri Highway Patrol clock his bird with radar.

Probably a bogus story.  Model rockets HAVE been tracked with radar (at
Wallops Island) but it was damn expensive, big-disk, fast-swivel radar, 
and damned hard.  They didn't get but less than a quarter of them.  (I 
was told this by the guy who did it.)  The problem is, there's damn little 
radar-reflective material in a model rocket.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Astrocam Breakthrough
Date: 16 Aug 92 19:26:30 GMT
Reply-To: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd.

In article <1992Aug15.150423@primerd.Prime.COM> j.cook@primerd.prime.com (C. James Cook) writes:

>There were four of us playing with Astrocams at NARAM.
>
>You had the stock model.  Tom Beach had the dual rear-facing pair.
>Fred Williams had one on an Apogee egglofter body.  

Thanks for correcting me on Fred. That was the salvo.

>I had the stock model prepared for D/E's.  

I remember that well. You had the 'chute separation on your last flight
on Thursday, and I spotted it only a couple of seconds before it, uh,
landed. Glad the camera was undamaged.

>I got my film back, but it doesn't appear that I was lucky.  The first 
>frame on a D looks like a cloud shot.  

I have one of those :-)

>The second shot on a D and the third shot on an E look underexposed.  
>Understandable since I was using 200 and told the developer to push it 
>to 400 - they propbably ignored this.

Hard to imagine underexposing with all that white dirt around. C.D.
even theorized that we wouldn't have to wait for full sun to get
good exposure.

>(wonder how Tom & Fred did).

I can mail Tom at his Compu$erve address and ask, but I don't think 
Fred has net.access.

>Rats,

My sympathies (I've been there).

- Jack

=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
||               "Do or not do. There is no try." - Yoda                   ||
=============================================================================
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: RE: Sounding Rockets (was Re: HPR thoughts & questions...)
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:49:31 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <19765@plains.NoDak.edu>, enders@bolshoi.cc.misu.NoDak.edu (Todd Enders) writes:
> C. D. Tavares writes
> ) HEE HEE HEE!  One of the classic NASA prang films is of a Nike-Arcas
> ) flipflopping its way in and out of the ocean at Wallops, then across the
> ) launch complex and into a parking lot!  The Nike catoes as the film
> ) begins, and the Arcas plops on a beach, only to be ignited by a timer
> ) about 15 seconds later.  With zero airspeed, the Arcas is fantastically
> ) unstable, and proves it.  The video is called "Boosted Arcas <some number>"
> ) and is in slo-mo.  NASA perpetually denies it exists, but I have a copy.
> 
>      On this note, where can one get film/video of other sounding rocket
> launches?  I suspect NASA has quite a pile, *if you know what to ask for*,
> but the salient question is "how do you find out what to ask for?".  Thanks!

You can write to your local NASA office and ask them for their audio
visual catalog.  You will get a lot of interesting titles, but mission
launch recordings won't be on it.  (Mostly presentation stuff with 
soundtracks, etc.)

The Boosted Arcas film was liberated from the "burn before viewing" vaults
by Herb Honecker before he died.  Bob Kaplow transferred the film to video
and took orders for copies. 

To fill up the tape, he added lots of other interesting and historical
material, such as the Steel City Prang Film, a bunch of wacky aviation-
oriented Movietone newsreels, the 1960's(?) NAR promotional film narrated
by G. Harry Stine, and hours of other neat stuff. 

For those of you who have asked me for copies, mine is a second-generation 
dupe of his, plus I don't have a second VCR.  However, Bob will probably be 
willing to make some copies for a small fee.  His number is 708-428-1181.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: RE: Sounding Rockets (was Re: HPR thoughts & questions...)
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:14:06 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <19596@plains.NoDak.edu>, enders@bolshoi.cc.misu.NoDak.edu (Todd Enders) writes:
>      Although it might look a mite strange, why not a NIKE-ARCAS?  From what
> I've seen, they used NIKEs to boost just about everything else. :-)

HEE HEE HEE!  One of the classic NASA prang films is of a Nike-Arcas
flipflopping its way in and out of the ocean at Wallops, then across the
launch complex and into a parking lot!  The Nike catoes as the film
begins, and the Arcas plops on a beach, only to be ignited by a timer
about 15 seconds later.  With zero airspeed, the Arcas is fantastically
unstable, and proves it.  The video is called "Boosted Arcas <some number>"
and is in slo-mo.  NASA perpetually denies it exists, but I have a copy.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...