HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ch491@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pj Pisczak)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
Subject: Aircraft Loans
Date: 7 Oct 1992 12:33:27 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


	Well, it looks like from this end that I am the first to
post (with exception to the charter and salutations) to this
forum.  Is that an echo I hear out there? :) I'll give this a
whirl anyway.  It seems to me that I have been renting aircraft
for possibly forever.  Although I am not in a cash surplus
situation (is anybody?) I get the nagging feeling that if I don't
start planning now that the day may never come.  If any of you
have some pearls of wisdom to toss before me about that first big
step I will listen with rapt attention.  I will likely attempt to
purchase a Cessna 182, possibly with a partner.  I have heard that
the banks will not loan on anything older than 20 years, even if the
airframe and engine have low hours.  I have also heard that at one
time they would consider a ten year loan, but now have reduced it
to 5 or 7-1/2 years.
	What are the pitfalls?  Should I shop for a bank nationally,
and if so do you have any suggestions?  How many partners is ideal
(assuming compatible personalities)?  What is a good term and loan
life?  Should I sell my first born (uh, never mind I think I know
what most of you would say)?  Any information would be appreciated
as I have to go before `De Boss' on this one before I move on it.
	Best Regards,	PJ
-- 
Sealy R & D - A laid back job with its ups & downs, but we always
manage to spring back.  All opinions are regretfully my very own.
17500 Engle Lake Drive			     Phone (216)-891-8200
Middleburg Hts., Ohio 44130-8399               Fax (216)-891-9116
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
From: stellabo@phage.cshl.org (Fred Stellabotte)
Subject: Insurance Compaines
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 17:17:54 GMT

I am in  the process of buying an aircraft ...

Can anyone suggest a good insurance company ..or 
tell me which compaines to stay away from ..??

Thanks ..

_______________________________________________________________________
  >| ====  Fred J. Stellabotte                     stellabo@cshl.org  
  >| ====  Computer Systems Manager
  >| ====  CFIA SEL MEL Commerical Instrument         
  >| ==== ___________________________________________________________
  >| ====  Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory         Voice: (516)367-8420
  >| ====  1 Bungtown Road                         Fax: (516)367-8845
  >| ====  Cold Spring Harbor, New York 11724                     
_______________________________________________________________________
From: earlb@ssd.intel.com (Earl Brabandt)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Re: IFR approaches and uncontrolled fields
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:51:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: SSD.1992Oct15.175152.2534
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division (SSD), Intel

In article <2510515@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> scott@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Scott Turner) writes:
>
>One of my pet peeves is instructors teaching in an area who don't bother
>teaching their primary students the local environment.  I strongly
>believe that one of the items an instructor ought to cover pre-solo is a
>basic overview of the local instrument approachs as well as approach
>terminology.  

Agreed!  I was simply providing an example.  Obviously there are others
who are likely to be unfamiliar with instrument approach fixes or other 
local landmarks, and pilots should consider this when we making position 
reports in general.  Transient pilots are be another example of those 
likely to be unfamiliar with local landmarks and instrument approach 
fixes.  Also, as much as we promote familiarization of the student 
with the local airport environment, the fact is, other instructors 
may not provide instruction to the level of detail that you or I might 
strive to achieve, thus I assume all pilots are unfamiliar with instrument 
approach fixes when making my position reports. 

Earl Brabandt, CFI inst, S & M airplane
From: billa@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bill Arnold)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:46:31 GMT
Subject: Re: Every silver lining has a cloud...
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

In rec.aviation, amy@lloyd.Camex.COM (Amy Lindsay) writes:

> Well, the results are in...
> 
> ..I passed.
> 
... (deleted material)
> 
> And, if anyone out there has decided they can't fly because they'll never
> be able to afford it on their salary, or they don't think they're smart
> enough, it's only because you're talking to to wrong people.  Just go
> talk to someone else.  It was the best advice I was ever given.
> 
>  A.G.Lindsay     *     Cloud Rental: Reasonable Rates     *     amy@camex.com 
> Typography & Design Department ~ Camex, Inc. ~ Boston, MA (617-426-7550 x575)
> Student pilot about posting on rec.aviation: "Kinda like we're penguins on the
>    ice shelf, wondering if there're killer whales below." (Eric Thiele)

Amy.  Please accept a warm congratulations from me!  Wonderful!
      I hope you enjoy your newly acquired skill.

Bill Arnold
billa@hpfcma.fc.hp.com
"No guarantees."

Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.ifr
From: peltz@cerl.uiuc.edu (Steve Peltz)
Subject: Re: IFR trivia question [sort of] answered
Organization: Computer Based Education Research Lab - University of Illinois
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 22:50:11 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.173054.13919@pony.Ingres.COM> kerry@Ingres.COM
(Kerry Kurasaki) writes, in regard to doing a circling approach using
right traffic instead of the airports standard left traffic:
>According to my DE, IFR operations does not relieve the pilot from ad-
>hering to FAR 91.??? (Operations at fields without operating control
>towers).  So he broke the rules (according to the DE).

91.127 says "unless otherwise required by Part 93". What's in Part 93?
-- 
Steve Peltz
Internet: peltz@cerl.uiuc.edu	PLATO/NovaNET: peltz/s/cerl
From: awtron@strawber.princeton.edu (Andrew Tron)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Fall foliage, Mt Snow, condo rental
Keywords: faliage, condo rental
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:47:47 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <2231@usna.NAVY.MIL> dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC)) writes:
>G'day,
> 
>If you are into looking at fall foliage, then you might want to
>take a trip to Vermont this next weekend or two. We just returned
>from Mt Snow. The foliage is quite beautiful but still not at it's
>peak. I estimate that it will peak next weekend or the following
>weekend.
> 
Incidentally, is there a sort of "Fall Colours hotline" that one can
call to find out where and when the best viewing is?  My instructor
believes this may be the case, but she isn't certain.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Tron at Princeton University  | awtron@strawber.Princeton.EDU
And of the living ... none, not one who truly loves the sky
Would trade a hundred earth bound hours for one that he could fly.
Xref: sparky rec.aviation:16695 rec.aviation.misc:148
From: ccrdb@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Ray Belbin)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.misc
Subject: Sleepiness
Date: 16 Oct 92 04:06:50 GMT
Organization: James Cook University



	Does anyone know where I might be able to find some information
about  - the affects of sleep deprivation on pilot awareness?  The rules
in Australia for civilian flying are 8 hours maximum duty time per day,
and 8 hours bottle to throttle. I imagine this would be the same in other
countries. But I've heard very little about sleep deprivation...

					Ray Belbin
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: rivan@bnr.ca (Robert Ivan)
Subject: What if a 747 could fly for 24 hrs ?
Reply-To: rivan@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 17:19:41 GMT

I asked the question.  Here's why.  Have any of you heard
of a group in the states that is aranging parties all oveer
the world for new years eve 2000?  Suposedly they have been at
it for quite some time. One of the parties is at the pyramid of
Cheops and George Burns has been booked for it ( if he lives ).
There are some others. If you know of the group I would be intersted
in their name and address. This should be one hell of a day since few
people in history get to see the end of a millenium let alone
one of the greatest ( and bloodiest0 of centuries - ok really
2001 is the end but no one believes it).


So what does this have to do with re.aviation?.  Simple.
I was thinking that a party on this day that would run
midnight for 24hrs would be a great idea (and money maker
since the rich will pay for nything different or even stupid.)
Think of it. One long party. With the right promotion it would
be neat.  So how do you do it?  Easy . Calculate a latitude on
the planet that a 747 could fly around at for 24 hours such
that it could match the rotation of the earth.  Then if
the plane starts on this latitude precicely at midnight at the
international date line it would be midnight year 2000 for 24hrs.
But im not sure if this is technically possible yet. Assumiing
you cant rent a military 747 400. But then we have 8 years
for 747's to become more technically advanced.  I haven't
got any real numbers to play with so its just an idea.

whatdya think?

Rob
From: maverick@buhub.bradley.edu (Darin Petersen)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: no soap - radio
Date: 15 Oct 92 05:12:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: bradley.1992Oct15.051224.6401
Distribution: rec
Organization: Bradley University


    A full moon makes for a great night-flight, so I thought.

I got the usual 172 from Du Page airport and planned to fly to Batten
airport in Racine, WI.  I thought I might try to call O'hare and ask for an
overflight.  This would be a really neat sight.  I've tried before, but
O'hare is, well, busy!  I've never even got a chance to transition the TCA.
But what the heck, I'll call anyway, I thought.....

so here goes.....
(ME): Cessna 739NY, 7 miles north of Du Page, 2500, request overflight.
(O'hare): 9NY, chicago app., turn 090, report 5 miles west of O'hare, squak
####.
----Holy S**T! They're going to let me do it!
From here they asked me what altitude I wanted, if I wanted to circle a few
times,etc,etc.   The Controller was being extremely welcoming.
During the whole conversation I was asked to repeat my transmission a few
times due to crappy radios (later found to be the button on the yoke).

When I was five miles out, the transmissions were extremely poor and I was
told to hold at present position to see if I could fix the problem.  To no
avail.  The controler came back and humbly said he doesn't think it's a
good idea to continue if my radio's are on the fritz and squak 1200, blah,
blah, blah.  He sounded aplogetic!  After all of this, I realized I could
have picked up the hand mike! arghhhh! 


WEll, over thanksgiving break from school, I'm gonna try it again.
Hopefully I will meet the same welcoming attitude as before.
needless to say, I put a big squak in the squak book about the radio.


--
            __|__          Darin Petersen - PP-ASEL
     ________(*)________  Maverick@buhub.bradley.edu
            o/ \o    
            
              
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.ifr
From: earlb@ssd.intel.com (Earl Brabandt)
Subject: Re: IFR approaches and uncontrolled fields
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division, Intel Corp.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:44:38 GMT

In article <LHE.92Oct8105713@yang.sics.se> lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson) writes:
>
>
>I have read a lot over the years about the concern of U.S. pilots
>about mixing IFR and VFR at uncontrolled fields - with IFR traffic
>popping out of the clouds straight into final. After also reading
>Kerrys trivia question and answer I am beginning to think that perhaps
>the Swedish CAA isn't paranoid at all.
>
>Comments?

Certainly.  Althought this mixing of traffic is something to consider,
comparatively few accidents actually result from it.  Just read all
the NTSB and other accident reports published in monthly aviation 
publications; it's just not a significant safety hazard in reality.  
On the other hand, the utility and benefits provided to the flying 
public are enormous with such operations.  The benefits are far greater 
than the hazards.  Of course it helps if VFR and IFR traffic all voluntarily 
announce their positions and intentions on the the radio.  Which brings 
up pet peeve of mine.  Those of us that fly instrument approaches 
(practice or otherwise) should announce our position in plain terms 
and avoid referencing fixes that are only found on instrument charts.
A student practicing in the pattern has probably never even seen 
an approach plate and he certainly isn't going to know where "outer 
marker" or "LAKER inbound on the ILS" is!  It's better to announce 
using "five miles north" or something like that so everyone understands 
where you are.

Earl Brabandt, CFI inst, S & M airplane
From: john@newave.newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Can a 747 fly for 24hrs ?
Date: 15 Oct 92 03:29:11 GMT
Organization: Newave Communications, Ltd, Lake Wobegon, MN

In article <1992Oct13.200214.23053@bmerh85.bnr.ca> rivan@bnr.ca writes:
> I am just wondering if there is a speed at which a 747 could fly
> for 24 hrs.  Range isn't so much important as time aloft.  Also
> any bets on how much it would cost to charter of of these
> babys for a day.  Im no miliionaire so the cost is moot
> but what the hell I can dream.

1. A group from the twin cities chartered a Sun Country 727 from Minneapolis
to the air show in Oshkosh this year.  The flight was $165, but $30 was
the EAA flight line pass, which put the air cost at $135 per person.  This
was split 180 ways, so the most the airplane could have cost is $24,800.
This included two flight attendants and a crew of two, all fuel, landing
fees, gate fees.  The total flight time was 37 minutes each direction.
I suspect that the actual cost was $20,000 for the airplane, and the other
$4800 went to administrative costs and possibly for tour insurance.

2. Even better than stainying aloft for 24 hours would be an attempt on
a round the world without refueling trip, aka the Voyager.  You would probably
have to start with a KC-10 or a KC-135.  Does anyone know if such a trip
might be possible?  (Ignoring the fact that I probably could not rent a
military tanker...but maybe I could rent a Soviet turbo prop bomber for a
weekend.  After all, they need hard currency.)

-john-

-- 
==============================================================================
John A. Weeks III		(612) 942-6969		    john@newave.mn.org
Newave Communications, Ltd.			    ..!uunet!tcnet!newave!john
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: davea@col.hp.com (Dave Allen)
Subject: Re: What Constitutes "Cross Country"
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 17:46:58 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

Ah yes. Here we are again splitting hairs (or nautical miles 49 vs 50),
and how close the wheels need to come to pavement to log cross country time.

My signature came from a similar thread some time (year(s)) ago. Here is
the original, uncut ...

dave allen - Fly because you love it - not to log it.
From: dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Fall foliage, Mt Snow, condo rental
Keywords: faliage, condo rental
Date: 8 Oct 92 01:50:27 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: U. S. Naval Academy

In article <1992Oct7.164747.3365@Princeton.EDU> awtron@strawber.princeton.edu (Andrew Tron) writes:
!In article <2231@usna.NAVY.MIL! dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC)) writes:
!!G'day,
!! 
!!If you are into looking at fall foliage, then you might want to
!!take a trip to Vermont this next weekend or two. We just returned
!!from Mt Snow. The foliage is quite beautiful but still not at it's
!!peak. I estimate that it will peak next weekend or the following
!!weekend.
!! 
!Incidentally, is there a sort of "Fall Colours hotline" that one can
!call to find out where and when the best viewing is?  My instructor
!believes this may be the case, but she isn't certain.

Sorry Andy not that I know of but that does not mean there is not one.

Dave Rogers
From: cantrell@seqp4.sequoia.com (Paul Cantrell)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Chopper FAA rules and misc
Date: 9 Oct 92 20:26:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: seqp4.1614
Organization: Sequoia Computer Systems

In article <1992Oct6.064030.14978@netcom.com>, hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong) writes:
> Can some chopper pilot onboard describe how it is governed by the FAA?

> Like do you have to behave the same way at airport (taking off acting
> like a plane)?
> Can you just land anywhere as long as the property owner says ok? (like going
> to a friend's place in the country)

The FAA certainly doesn't care about where you takeoff and land with a
helicopter. However, I'm not aware that they particularly care about
airplanes either. As I've stated in the past, I'm not aware of any FAA
regulation which restricts airplanes from landing off-airport. States
and local towns are a different matter...

> Does it cost a lot to get chopper rating after you have PSEL?

It mostly depends on what kind of helicopter you learn in. Figure typical
small piston helicopter costs $5,500 for an add-on rating. In a turbine
helicopter figure on $16,000 as a minimum.

> How do you transport a small chopper for long distance (like from West Coast
> back to central US)? 

Fly it. Crating and shipping by freight is also done.

> How is the maintenance cost?  More than a Cessna 152/172? 

Yes. We figure from $30/hr to $75/hr for piston helicopters, including
scheduled and unscheduled maintenance.

> How does wind, rain, and snow affect the performance?  Especially big wind. 

Wind does not affect a helicopter as much as an airplane, assuming a
competent pilot at the controls. Snow can create visibility problems
when hovering. Flight in rain is prohibited for some helicopters,
because the rain causes the rotors to erode (wear) quickly. This is not
a problem for all helicopters.

> If rain is bad for the rotor, do you need a hanger for parking? 

You would normally want to hangar a helicopter. A two bladed helicopter
takes up very little hangar space (we could pack 15 or 20 Robinsons in
our hangar, getting 3 airplanes in it would be a lot of work).

> Does chopper regular (car), avgas, or jet fuel? 

Depends on the model. Some are approved for auto-gas STC, otherwise
piston helicopters are generally going to burn avgas, and turbine
helicopters are going to burn jet fuel.

> Chopper mechanics hard to find?  Expensive?

No. They are generally available, and typically no more expensive than
a fixed wing A&P. Finding a *good* one who understands the particular
helicopter you are flying may be more difficult than finding an A&P
who knows Cessnas...
-- 
                  THIS                  | Paul Cantrell "PC"
                  SPACE                 | cantrell@sequoia.com
              INTENTIONALLY             | DoD #1144
               LEFT BLANK               | HELO/ASEL/ZX10 Pilot
From: hajo@bwl.bwl.th-darmstadt.de (Hans-Jochen Schmitt)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: GPS prices in the US
Date: 12 Oct 92 14:47:33 GMT
Organization: Inform.Systems Department, University of Darmstadt

So I didn't find it in the FAQ:

Would someone be so kind to mail me actual prices for the Garmin GPS 55 AVD 
in the US ?

If somebody has comments on that unit, you're highly welcome !

If I get answers, i'll summarize and post it to the list. 

Please mail to:

  hajo@bwl.bwl.th-darmstadt.de

For your information: in Germany its offered for 2100,- DM, thats
about 1420 US-$ (exchange rate dated from 12.10.1992, 15.43.23 UTC, maybe 
up or down 10 cents in a few seconds ;-), the dollar is floating like 
crazy in the last few weeks. Guess why I ask for US prices ? ).


Thanks

Hajo Schmitt
Technical University Darmstadt
Germany
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.student
From: wd@cs.tu-berlin.de (Wolfgang Diestelkamp)
Subject: Re: <None>
Organization: Technical University of Berlin, Germany
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 09:55:17 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.185632.55@front.se> per@front.se writes:

> All (or most?) of the member states of ICAO recognize each others
> Private Pilot Licenses. In some cases (e.g. Sweden) no paperwork is
> needed, in some (e.g. USA) you immediately get a local PPL based on
> your foreign PPL.

This is unfortunately not so. What is recognized among the ICAO countries
is the certification to fly an aircraft *registered in the country which issued
the license*. So have the US license, fly N-registered aircraft in Germany.
On the other hand, particularly Germany is *very* strict about accepting
foreign licenses to fly German aircraft (heck, we are Germans, we have
to keep up the rule-making bureaucracy :(.
Sweden, on the other hand, has no problems allowing this.
All this is really ridiculous and makes you laugh at the authorities. What
is the difference between someone flying a C172, N1234P, in Germany, compared
to flying C172, D-EJGT, also in Germany ?
Sad ...
-- 
Wolfgang Diestelkamp
wd@cs.tu-berlin.de
wolfgang@first.gmd.de

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: tim@ais.org (Tim Tyler)
Subject: Re: Can a 747 fly for 24hrs ?
Organization: UMCC
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 06:22:10 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.232542.1@wharton.upenn.edu> baran04@wharton.upenn.edu (Dave Baran) writes:
>In article <1992Oct13.200214.23053@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, rivan@bnr.ca (Robert Ivan) writes:
>> 
>>  I am just wondering if there is a speed at which a 747 could fly
>> for 24 hrs.  Range isn't so much important as time aloft.  Also
>> any bets on how much it would cost to charter of of these
>> babys for a day. 
>
>I believe that the "transport category" record is still held by a
>Boeing 747-400 -- nonstop from Seattle to Cape Town.  I believe that
>it took around 18 hours.

    The E-4B Advanced Airborne Command Post is a 747-200 airframe operated
by the USAF for the Joint Chiefs of Staff National Emergency Airborne
Command Post mission.
 
   With airborne refuelling, the 4 E-4B platforms are capable of remaining
airborne for approximately 72 hours.     They are restricted to approx. 3
days due to the necessity to change engine oil after that length of time.
 
    The two 747-400 aircraft with are the primary components of the
Presidential aircraft fleet operated by the 89th ALW at Andrews AFB also
have airborne refuelling capability.



-- 
 Tim Tyler   Internet: tim@ais.org  MCI Mail: 442-5735  C$erve: 72571,1005
P.O. Box 443     Packet: KA8VIR @KA8UNZ.#SEMI.MI.USA.NA
Ypsilanti MI
48197-0443                  PADI, USPA, AFCEA, INEOA, P226, VFR700, etc.
Xref: sparky rec.aviation:16476 rec.aviation.homebuilt:82
From: Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,rec.aviation.homebuilt
Subject: Re: Seawinds Sea Plane Kit
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:10:09 GMT
 <1992Oct7.133046.4595@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1992Oct7.133046.4595@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>
baldwin@pacific.cps.msu.edu (Reid A Baldwin) writes:

> Why would the pitching moment be influenced by fore-aft placement?

I think I understand what David meant by this, although I'm sure he's
capable of speaking for himself :-).  In most amphibians/seaplanes, the
thrust line is necessarily well above the fuselage, and often high
above the wing.  Under these circumstances, advancing power causes a
nose down pitching motion while retarding the throttle produces the
opposite action.  This is ocurring with the engine placed close to the
center of the aircraft thus accentuating the action.  I don't know what
the engineering term for it is, but the thrust line is high above the
center of gravity.  With the engine placed on the tail, it may still be
way above the center of gravity, but has less influence there because
it has to pivot the entire fuselage whereas in the middle engine
location the it has only to pivot one half.  Is this right David?

Corky Scott
From: scott@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Scott Turner)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 16:31:35 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: IFR approaches and uncontrolled fields
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO