HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rbr@well.sf.ca.us (Bob Rossney)
Subject: Re: Dumb Moves By Game Companies
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 16:10:53 GMT

In <18575@borg.cs.unc.edu> oliver@bodie.cs.unc.edu (Bill Oliver) writes:

>In article <1992Dec31.100135.24184@samba.oit.unc.edu> Ricardo.Sedan@launchpad.unc.edu (Ricardo Sedan) writes:
>>
>>unfortunately, this is more, i think, a reflection of the decline and fall
>>of the american mind than of MB per se. MB is selling what the typical
>>mass market will buy; unfortunately, the unsophisticated mind of the
>>average american can entertain itself best on the likes of home alone 2,
>>america's funniest home videos, for example. the gaming interests of the
>>typical public reflect this lack of sophistication.
>>


>What sophomoric elitist crap this is.

In fact, a fairly simple comparison of the boardgaming habits of, say, the
Germans with the Americans adds credence to the idea of some kind of
decline, here in America.  There is a vast array of games designed for
intelligent adults that find a good market in Europe.  There is *nothing*
comparable in the United States.

This has changed within the last twenty years.  There used to be a fairly
healthy family game industry in the US, one that probably reached its peak
in the late 1960s.  (Remember that the game industry was, for a while,
healthy enough to tempt companies like 3M and Corning to get into it.)
There is now none.  The very fact that Mr. Oliver doesn't appear to see the
vast continuum of games between V for Victory and Uno attests to this.

I don't think it elitist to observe that there is a correlation between the
decline of the American game industry and a similar decline in the American
educational system.

Bob Rossney
rbr@well.sf.ca.us
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: darknite@camelot.bradley.edu (John S. Novak III)
Subject: Re: Unique Races
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 28 Dec 92 06:10:45 GMT

In <Bzxq0y.2M6.1@cs.cmu.edu> pooh+@cs.cmu.edu (Will Timmins) writes:

>Well, I had a race like the Cho-jha in a game of mine... it seems that hive 
>mind insectoid races are fairly common.

What's a more reasonable special effect for an insectile
intelligence than a hive mind...?

>Thus, scout hive demons have a good amount of independence. (in fact, in a game
>I ran, one character was a scout demon that had managed to 'defect' from his
>hive while on a mission in another dimension)

>Comments?
B
Yeah.
Are the Hive Queens actually intelligent, but just very busy and
too busy to allocate enough time for a real conversation?  Or are
the more intelligent members of the hive bound to the bidding of
what is, essentially, a sub-sapient computer?  If the latter, do
the intelligent members ever want to break away?  Are they
unable, or unable to conceive the concept?


--
"Dave's Black Box Theory:
     You just worry about the input and the output; you don't worry about
     the sh*t in between."
John S. Novak, III		darknite@camelot.bradley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: durrell@pinball.arcade.uiowa.edu (Bryant Durrell)
Subject: Re: Dumb Moves By Game Companies
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 01:24:08 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa

In article <18575@borg.cs.unc.edu> oliver@bodie.cs.unc.edu (Bill Oliver) writes:
>Now, did we play UNO because we were just silly mindless Americans?  Of
>course not.  We played UNO because we wanted a game that would bring
>us all together as an excuse to socialize.  The game did *not* as you would
>apparently believe, take up our entire mental abilities.  Instead, it did
>exactly what it is supposed to do -- provided us with an excuse to carry
>on light conversation and family gossip.

So, uh, what's your point?  If you think Uno is typical of the
crap Milton Bradley is putting out these days, you're sadly
mistaken.  Uno is a simple but excellent game.  Most new board
games are a bit more complex and a lot worse.

I disagree with the gentleman who thinks that this is reflective
of the game buying public's tastes, though.  It's *easier* to
design a bad game, and people will still buy it, but that
doesn't mean they hate good games.

-- 
Bryant Durrell					   durrell@chop.isca.uiowa.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 I feed on the flesh of the living, and I vote.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: macgyver@turtle.cis.ohio-state.edu (MacGyver)
Subject: Rifts Weapon's rate of fire
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 02:19:35 GMT

I'm having problem with the Rifts' Weapon's Rate of Fire. According to
page 241 of the Rifts Book, the Forearm Blaster Particle Beam does
6d6+6, and it can fire in aimed, burst or wild mode. This seem too
silly to me. Because if it fires in burst mode, and empty the entire
magazine, the damage it does is (6d6+6)x10. This is MORE than the
Boomgun from the Gliterboy!

The same problem also occures with Wilk's 447 Laser Rifle, which does
3d6 MD, and if you fire the "empty the magazine" burst, it does
3d6x10.

This problem seems to be occuring in most portable energy weapon,
making these weapons more powerful than the ones from powerful armor.
Am I missing something?


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: durrell@pinball.arcade.uiowa.edu (Bryant Durrell)
Subject: Re: META: Game Mechanics vs. Background
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:40:25 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa

In article <1992Dec21.234008.1@wharton.upenn.edu> millerl@wharton.upenn.edu writes:
>I think that GURPS' new
>Madlands stuff is good this way, possibly SJG's best non-licensed world
>pack ever.

I haven't seen this -- what genre is it?

Oh, and count me in with Loren wrt a nice balance between world
and mechanics.

-- 
Bryant Durrell					   durrell@chop.isca.uiowa.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 I feed on the flesh of the living, and I vote.
From: loewenst@cs.rutgers.edu (David Loewenstern)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SR: Ritual magic and quickenings
Date: 1 Jan 93 22:37:22 GMT
	<1993Jan1.203234.19368@midway.uchicago.edu>
Reply-To: loewenst@paul.rutgers.edu
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Whippany, NJ
In-reply-to: lev0@kimbark.uchicago.edu's message of 1 Jan 93 20:32:34 GMT

... On 1 Jan 93 20:32:34 GMT, lev0@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ron Levy (Armchair)) said:


} The usual fix I've seen is to not allow a number of successes greater
} than the force of the spell, for quickened or spell locked spells.  So
} the max you would get on a force 6 combat sense is 6 successes.
} For barrier spells the barrier force stays at the force of the spell.

Thanks!  This seems like a workable fix.

These opinions are shareware.  If you like the product,
please send your $0.02 to
               David Loewenstern
<loewenst@paul.rutgers.edu>||<d.loewenstern@att.com>
From: chem7l@jane.uh.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SR Spell Locks
Date: 23 Dec 1992 11:32 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1992Dec22.072334.9075@coe.montana.edu>, icsu0237@cs.montana.edu (Jeff Patterson) writes...
>Fellow gamers,
> 
>	I am currently GMing a SRI campaign (moving to SRII after the
>holidays) and have three mages in the party (one is an NPC).  One of
>the mages came up with a great idea for his character - lock a spell
>onto himself.  After consulting both the SR man and the Grimoire we
>found nothing that said that this could not be done, and so he locked
>"personal combat sence" to himself.  With the use of fetishes and
>elementals he was able to cast a pretty mean spell.  He now gets as many
>actions per turn as any of the wired sammies in the party
>Am I missing something
>in the rules?  Is it answered in SRII?  How do you guys handle it?
>

You are missing something VERY BIG in the rules--Astral Combat.  A spell lock
has a force of 1 (always, regardless of the spell force) and always does 1L1
damage in astral combat.  A spell in astral combat does (force)(drain code)
damage, so you could have an NPC mage in astral space cast a force 4 Hellblast
that does something like 4D4 damage to the lock.  This will destroy the lock
immediately.  However, the spell will also ground through the lock and hit
everyone within the area of effect with a force 4 (plus any added dice the NPC
mage puts into it) Hellblast.  This will 1) permanently destroy the spell lock,
2) discourage all mages from using spell locks in the future, and 3) frag
everyone's day, making everyone else in the party discourage the mage from 
using a spell lock as well. 

>	Awaiting posts....
>-- 
>================================================================================
>Jeff Patterson   CS Department  || "We are the keepers of the sacred words..."
>icsu0237@caesar.cs.montana.edu  ||            - Head Knight who says "NEEEGH!"
>================================================================================

Have fun,

Jim Corbit
Chem7l@Jetson.UH.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: pooh+@cs.cmu.edu (Will Timmins)
Subject: Re: Unique Races
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 20:09:54 GMT

In article <darknite.725523045@camelot> darknite@camelot.bradley.edu (John S. Novak III) writes:
>In <Bzxq0y.2M6.1@cs.cmu.edu> pooh+@cs.cmu.edu (Will Timmins) writes:
>
>>Well, I had a race like the Cho-jha in a game of mine... it seems that hive 
>>mind insectoid races are fairly common.
>
>What's a more reasonable special effect for an insectile
>intelligence than a hive mind...?
>
>>Thus, scout hive demons have a good amount of independence. (in fact, in a game
>>I ran, one character was a scout demon that had managed to 'defect' from his
>>hive while on a mission in another dimension)
>
>>Comments?
>B
>Yeah.
>Are the Hive Queens actually intelligent, but just very busy and
>too busy to allocate enough time for a real conversation?  Or are
>the more intelligent members of the hive bound to the bidding of
>what is, essentially, a sub-sapient computer?  If the latter, do
>the intelligent members ever want to break away?  Are they
>unable, or unable to conceive the concept?
>
>
>--
>"Dave's Black Box Theory:
>     You just worry about the input and the output; you don't worry about
>     the sh*t in between."
>John S. Novak, III		darknite@camelot.bradley.edu


-- 
[Pooh Bear incarnate.                                             ]
[H1 C+ F+ W G+ K+ S+ R- E+ P                                      ]
[                                                                 ]
[To email, please make sure to mail to pooh@seismo.soar.cs.cmu.edu]
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: Lemmings For Presidents! <ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu>
Subject: Re: SRII: Are mages in SRII too powerful?
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	<1992Dec26.234510.16301@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 03:32:10 GMT

>>>>> On 27 Dec 92 04:45:10 GMT, cks@hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu (Chris
>>>>> Siebenmann) said:

Chris>  These guys are presumably carrying about 50,000 to 100,000 nuyen
Chris> worth of cyberware and gear (minimum), no? In the dark depressed
Chris> world of Shadowrun's 2050, who is funding all of this? How come
Chris> people with cyberware worth more than a middle-income person's
Chris> yearly salary are so plentiful?

Most of this stuff is not installed at once. Much like my collection of RPG
books is worth several thousand dollars list price, I didn't buy it all at
once but collected over a number of years. Starting Shadowrunners are
actually experienced characters, with at least a 'run or two under their
belts (compare any 'runner with the contacts in the book and you'll see
what I mean).

Chris>  Something here doesn't add up, much like gang members with
Chris> expensive cybermods and droolable bikes living in poverty.

That's where they put *all* the money they save/scavange/steal/earn.
'Course that's their problem :-).

--Rat                               PGP Public Key Block available upon request
||||| | | | |  |  |  |   |   |    |    |    |   |   |  |  |  |  | | | | | |||||
Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat          ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
It's hard to bargle nawdle zouss/With all these marbles in my mouth
                                     --`Weird Al' Yankovic, Smells Like Nirvana
From: loren@wmkt.wharton.upenn.edu (Loren Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Elric - a new Chaosium game ?
Date: 22 Dec 92 20:36:45 GMT
Organization: Wharton Marketing

I read that the *new* Elric game was a roleplaying game, a sort of update to 
Stormbringer. That doesn't make too much sense, since Chaosium is publishing 
a lot of stuff for Stormbringer, so maybe it's an updated version of the 
rules combined with a name change, to better fit into the Hawkmoon/Corum 
fold. After all if the other eternal champion games are named after the 
heroes then why should the young kingdoms game be named after a sword that 
is the source of evil?

Anyway, I'm not quite sure what it is, so I guess we'll have to wait and see.

--
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller              LOREN@wmkt.wharton.upenn.edu
Time am I, wreaker of the world's destruction, matured, grimly
resolved here to swallow up the worlds.             -- Krishna
From: loren@wmkt.wharton.upenn.edu (Loren Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: RQ: Runelords and Heroes question (still LONG)
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:33:11 GMT
Organization: Wharton Marketing

I don't see why there only has to be one pattern for changing myths. Can't 
it be true that some mythic meddling retroactively changes history and time, 
while others just changes the myths at a particular point in time? 

In any case the retroactive history change doesn't hold water if you 
examine what we know about Glorantha. For instance, many heroquesters, such 
as Gbaji who inflicted the Trollkin curse on the Trolls, changed the myths 
at a particular point in time, affecting all Trolls, but some Trolls 
remembered their old myths too. Likewise a few people pass the Elmalio 
stories along, though they are difficult to reach on the Heroplane either in 
ritual or in individual heroquesting. It's much easier to reach the Yelmalio 
stories nowadays.

I think that Stafford's Elmalio/Yelmalio story was supposed to illustrate 
the way that myth changes in Glorantha---that it doesn't retroactively 
change all historic references and memories. However, those historic 
references must now be understood in terms of the (new) mythic landscape.

"Sir, this shield is written in bel epoq Jrusteli, and it calls on the winds 
of Elmalio to guard the bearer against the arrows of the enemy."

"Ah, those damned God-Learning Jrusteli were meddling with the myths again. 
Everybody knows that Yelmalio is a sun god! And keep this quiet, so nobody 
thinks you're a god learning scumbag too."

--
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller              LOREN@wmkt.wharton.upenn.edu
Time am I, wreaker of the world's destruction, matured, grimly
resolved here to swallow up the worlds.             -- Krishna
From: mchoo@trident.usacs.rutgers.edu (Myong Choo)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: FH: GM needs help
Date: 2 Jan 93 17:42:23 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


 Hi all!  And HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

I recently started a Fantasy Hero campaign although I really wasn't
ready to play (my players really, REALLY wanted to play).  So I've
been doing thing on-the-fly and it's going pretty well, but I would
like to have more prepared stuff.  So what I would like is help from
the kind folks out there.  Send characters, items, etc.  Any help is
great.  Thanks to all that respond.

-Myong
-- 
Myong Choo                          | snail mail:
email: ar328@cleveland.freenet.edu  | BPO 20382  PO BOX 1119
 or mchoo@gum.rutgers.edu           | Piscataway, NJ 08854-1119
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: stv@unislc.uucp (Steve Spencer)
Subject: Re: Palladium/WotC Lawsuit--How You Can Help
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:25:08 GMT

Solipsist Large (IK20001@MAINE.MAINE.EDU) wrote:
: 
: Finally, mail to Palladium expressing *politely* your support of WotC
: may help.  If Palladium gets the feeling that their market is being
: lost by their lawsuit, they may decide to drop it even if they feel
: they can win (win the battle, lose the war).
: --
: Eric Alfred Burns                        "Life is full of decisions
: Solipsist at Large                        but you never get to make any."
: "It's all in your mind"
: IK20001@maine.maine.edu                           --Linus Van Pelt


If possible, could someone please post the mailing address to Paladium?


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
| It's the sputter of a raindrop. It's the sunlight on my face |
| My mind's eye into other realms. It's my paradise escape.    |
| Steve Spencer	SLC, Utah 	stv@unislc.slc.unisys.com      |
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.dnd
From: stv@unislc.uucp (Steve Spencer)
Subject: Re: Newsletter Seeking Submissions
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 16:07:23 GMT

Steve Spencer (stv@unislc.uucp) wrote:
: Hey Scott,
: 
: Steve Spencer here, from Utah. I was just making sure that I was sent a 
: copy of the fourth issue. I haven't seen anything. Am I jumping the gun?
: 
: 
: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
: | It's the sputter of a raindrop. It's the sunlight on my face |
: | My mind's eye into other realms. It's my paradise escape.    |
: | Steve Spencer	SLC, Utah 	stv@unislc.slc.unisys.com      |
: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Okay, sorry everyone, I ALWAYS hit that damned F key instead of the R
key. OOOOPS! (I know I hate it when people do that).

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: Citizen Lemming <ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu>
Subject: Re: SR Spell Locks
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	<1992Dec25.201552.29871@u.washington.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 20:55:18 GMT

>>>>> On Fri, 25 Dec 1992 20:15:52 GMT,
>>>>> mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner) said:

Mary> It should not be forgotten that (at least in SRI--I don't own SRII)
Mary> elementals can be used to hold spells for up to 1 day per force
Mary> point, and ritual magic can be used to hold spells for up to 1 day
Mary> per die dedicated to the purpose. Neither of these involves karma or
Mary> huge amounts of nuyen,

Ummm... elementals consume Force * 1000kY in materials to summon, and
rituals consume Force * 100-1000kY (depending on the spell type) in
materials and require a library or lodge of at least the spell's Force.
This is as of the "third corrected printing" of SRI, if not earlier.

Mary> and as far as I can tell from the SRI rules neither runs any risk of
Mary> the spell being used to ground something.

And rituals require that you pretty much stick around in one place and
concentrate on the ritual. Can't go out on a 'run while that's going on,
now can you? :-).

Spell Locks are good *if* you realize how vulnerable they are and can deal
with them.

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--Rat
||||| | | | |  |  |  |   |   |    |    |    |   |   |  |  |  |  | | | | | |||||
Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat          ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu
I'm so hip I can't see past my own pelvis.                  --Zaphod Beeblebrox
From: mrm70@diag.amdahl.com (Mike McAllister)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: META: Game Mechanics vs. Background
Date: 22 Dec 92 19:54:06 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Dec21.232019.14670@oz.plymouth.edu>, sos@oz.plymouth.edu (Steffan O'Sullivan) writes:
|>... 
|> I don't need or even like to be spoon-fed a gaming world with every
|> little detail filled in.  The exception might be a setting from an
|> existing fictional source that works - already worked before somebody
|> made a game out of it, in fact.  But in general, I am more offended by
|> some game designer's opinion on a genre than helped by it.  Just as an
|> example, I can figure out a decent vampire society without being forced
|> to use clans . . .

I feel the same way as you with most games. For example, the Battletech
background is way too much for me, although I think the mechanics (of mech
battle) can be fun. The idea of force-feeding me the history of the universe
makes player characters pretty insignificant - they could never do something
that might change the official history, if you play the way you are supposed
to.

Most important, however, may be that I don't especially like that history
in the first place. The more specific that a game background/history gets,
the more likely it will displease GMs, at least GMs that like a lot of
freedom for creativity. However, some amount of building material is nice.

I guess the place I would draw the line at is not doing what FASA does with
BTech - updating the history continually.
(btw, does WH40k do this? I'm looking into that history, and it seems to be
designed by much more creative people than Btech - more interesting background,
imo. - hopefully not too restrictive)

|> 
|> I guess it comes down to this:  I feel I should pay a game designer for
|> game design, and a fiction author for setting, mood, genre, background,
|> etc.
|> 
|> How do others feel about this?  Just how minor is the minority I belong
|> to?

I think we may be in the minority, a lot of people seem to think that
there can never be too much background description/history.

Mike
|> 
|> -- 
|>   - Steffan O'Sullivan		         sos@oz.plymouth.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.board
From: Ricardo.Sedan@launchpad.unc.edu (Ricardo Sedan)
Subject: Re: Dumb Moves By Game Companies
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 10:01:35 GMT

In article <rbr.725764683@well.sf.ca.us> rbr@well.sf.ca.us (Bob Rossney) writes:
>
>Everything else palls by comparison with Milton Bradley's attaining 70% of
>market share in the US board game market and then using it to flog dreadful
>games for all ages.  (I include Parker Brothers under the MB rubric, as MB
>owns them.)  So we have four different board games based on Monopoly, none
>of which are remotely as good as Monopoly.  Careers is out of print and the
>Game of Life, which STILL has Art Linkletter on the cover, is not.  The
>biggest-selling, heaviest-marketed games for adults are dull repackagings
>of Victorian parlor games (Scattergories is the ugliest example here.)
>This is the same company that, once upon a time, produced Square Mile,
>Conspiracy, Summit, Broadside, Dogfight, etc.--even if you DON'T count all
>the games Parker Brothers used to make.
>
>Bob Rossney
>rbr@well.sf.ca.us


unfortunately, this is more, i think, a reflection of the decline and fall
of the american mind than of MB per se. MB is selling what the typical
mass market will buy; unfortunately, the unsophisticated mind of the
average american can entertain itself best on the likes of home alone 2,
america's funniest home videos, for example. the gaming interests of the
typical public reflect this lack of sophistication.

-rock
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
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