From: sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Human rights in Latvia
Date: 27 Jan 93 02:09:31 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


 Frankly, I didn't want to jump into this Baltic 
 bashing, but the guy got me. Although, I understand
 that any reasonable conversation is practically
 impossible, but I'll try.

In article <Ry7ZXB1w165w@netlink.cts.com> ibezdech@netlink.cts.com (Ivars Bezdechi) writes:

>Frankly, reading your messages shows an obvious lack of information about 
                  ^^^^
 I know it's not me but don't know who. 

>the citizenship rules in Latvia.  I am 1/2 Latvian-Estonian, but born in 
>the United States, and I have just registered for citizenship (my mother 
>is Latvian-Estonian).  Anybody who can prove Latvian ancestry can apply 
>for citizen just as long as they were citizens prior to June 17, 1940.  

    Very generous law. In other words, one must plead not 
  guilty in ocupation innocent Latvia by communist Russia.
  However, I hardly can find such a guilt in a child born
  in Latvia. But, of course, it's better seen from the chair
  of the first secretary of Latvian communist party.

   Another reason to look for such guilts is economical. I
  realise that Russian-speakers, been forced to run away from
  such hospitality, will leave their (their!! I mean it - it
  is THEIR property, earned during their life) appartments,
  gardens, garages - all that stuff which people try to build
  for their kids.  You think you'll live better after that,
  don't you? (not you personally, of course, you, perhaps,
  have a nice place to live). Well, there is a Russian 
  (I wonder, it's not Latvian :-) saying: "Na chuzhoi bede
  schast'ia ne postroish" (hard to translate:"can't build
  your happiness on ones misfortune"). It is my beleif that
  reasonable people should avoid any national tensions, 
  otherwise we will see a new Karabakh. (he,he I'd go to
  fight for my property if I had one).

>I have ethnic Russians who are good acquaintances (friends) who came to 
>Latvia as a part of Stalin's/the Soviet Union process of Russification of 
>the Baltic States.  I have no problem with ethnic Russians when they 
>learn Latvian and act as Latvians.  My mother was FORCED to learn Russian 
>with the occupation of Latvia by the Russians....and frankly, I don't see 
>a problem with the Russians learning Latvian.  The Russians are the 
>occupiers.

  I always was suprized why when we speak about Crimean 
  Tatars, it is considered a good (and democratic minded)
  taste to say: "yes, Russia must give them independence".
  The same goes for Volgean Germans (occupiers, that's it:-)
  and other "minorities". And every "minority" blames Russians
  for own faults - tell me now that Latvians never helped
  and never participated in comunistic crimes. I myself also
  don't see a problem with learning a language, I don't care
  if it's English, Latvian or Chineese as long as I need it.
 
  Well, you see, I knew some people who were Latvians and
  lived in Russia. Are they occupiers as well, or this is
  a one way ticket?  
 
>  It quite apparents seeing the false reports of "Russian 
>bashing" by the Latvian that the RUssians obviously can't live with the 
>thought that they are no longer the masters.  In fact, nobody is forcing 
>the Russians to stay in Latvia.  If they are so unhappy, there is PLENTY 
>of space in Russia for them. 

 Do you understand what you've said? I leave it here
 to let you read it once more. Are you talking about
 genocyde (sp?) ? I'd also like to know how would you
 feel if you had been denied in the US citizenship
 based on the fact that you came here after Mr. Columbus?

 Besides, it's stupid (yes, it is) to talk about nations
 as "masters" and "slaves". Communists were the "masters"
 and your slavery depended on you. In fact, everyone had
 freedom of choice - either serve them (for a small piece
 of pie) or not (for free). Many Latvians took the first,
 well, many Russians too, of course. 
 
 Last. And I'm out. I don't see any possibility to continue
 if the discussion will tend to "national socialism" -
 yes, it is "national socialism": take everything from
 Russians ('coz they're ocuppiers, earlier some people
 measured the length of noses - doesn't matter) and split
 between Latvians. 

 OK. Last. Such thing as nation guilt does not exist. 
 Stalin's national policy messed everything up and,
 unfortunately, we and our kids are to resolve the 
 problems and, I hope, without AK-76 (or whatever number
 it is).
 
>-Ivars

 S.B.