HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Friday, 18 Dec 1992 18:04:40 EST
From: <CSVBMD@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Wagner and Jews?
 <1992Dec9.012721.4208@cs.ucla.edu> <1992Dec9.035130.17703@Princeton.EDU>
 <Bz882K.7IH@dscomsa.desy.de>

I've followed this line regarding the most tragic and horrible events in
the history of mankind and, as a person who lost many relatives during
WW II, I'd like to make a couple of remarks which will (hopefully) shed
some light on this topic. It's difficult to know Wagner's real feelings
regarding Jews, but it is not difficult to know what Hitler's were.
Hitler regarded Wagner's music as THE prime inspiration for his awful
work. As a young man, Hitler was so fascinated with Wagner that he toyed
with the idea of writing an opera himself. Winafred Wagner (the composer's
ardent NAZI daughter-in-law) claimed during the 1970's that if Hitler
walked through the doors, she would run and throw her arms around her
long lost friend and idol.........Wagner's own son, Sigfried, considered
the Nazi's to be charlatans (he didn't live to see Hitler take over Germany,
but he was evidentally a close family friend and visitor of the Wagner
years before he became a political power to be reckoned with). Who can
blame Jews (and others) for banning his music.

I wish that this whole thing had never happened, but the influence of
Wagner on the most evil man that ever lived was not insignificant.
I am an admirer of Wagner's talent, but sometimes I feel I'm admiring
something evil (Lucifer was supposed to be the most beautiful of the
angels in heaven......)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Subject: Re: Recorded using B&W speakers
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 07:43:18 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.005104.2426@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker) writes:
>: I've seen a few CDs with notes indicating that they were recorded
>: "using B&W speakers."  My question is, how are loudspeakers "used"
>: in a recording and what influence do they have on the quality of
>: a recording?
>
>I've often wondered why EMI - for it is they is it not? - don't use
>microphones like everybody else. :-)
>
>Speakers are used in the control room for monitoring the sound as it
>is being recorded and playback to artists and producer afterwards.
>Obviously the 'better' (whatever *that* means) the speakers used the
>better. 

Let me jump in on this one for a moment...

Most classical recordings today are done with very high quality capacitor
microphones.  Different engineers prefer different manufacturers depending
on the type of recording, the size of the hall, the effect and ambience to
be captured, etc.  I prefer to record with Schoeps microphones.  Some of my
friends would rather use B&K, but most major classical albums today are cut
using top-notch elements.

Using these things is no easy task.  Movement in any direction by as little
as an inch or two can have a pronounced effect on the quality of the audio.
Most sound recordists (myself included) spend long hours jockying the mikes
around in order to find "the" right place.

To judge this accurately, you have to play the recording back (or monitor it
while it goes to tape) on what is called a reference system.  A reference
system is theoretically as close to perfectly-designed as possible.  Of
course, there is no such thing as a _perfectly_ designed room, but you can
get close.  Most recording companies have reference playback rooms in which
a very fine pair of loudspeakers which are mathematically placed in the room
so as to project a realistic sound stage.

Each mastering engineer has an opinion as to the best speakers to use for
classical music, but three brands that are quite popular are:  B&W from
England, Duntech from Australia, and Wilson Audio from the United States.
Therefore, to many listeners (especially high-end audiophiles &c), the
fact that a recording was mastered using B&W loudspeakers is a definite plus.


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
Xref: sparky rec.music.classical:18753 alt.conspiracy:13239
From: ceb@dbrus.Unify.Com (Caroline E. Bryan)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Wagner and Jews?
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:23:22 GMT
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization

In article <Bz017J.5Br@news.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
>In article <1992Dec9.012721.4208@cs.ucla.edu> pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce) writes:
>
>>Is it true that the Nazis thought that Wagner's work *does* promote
>>their dreadful ideas?
>
>Maybe, in some cases at least.  I feel that they couldn't have
>known the operas very well to think so, because if the Ring is about
>anything, it's about the idea that if you seize power regardless of the
>rights of others, you doom yourself to destruction.  And Parsifal shows
>how a closed society of self-declared "superior" males is inherently a
>sick and self-destructive notion.

My mother was an impressionable teenager in a musical family in Germany dur-
ing the Hitler Era.  She tells me that Wagner was adopted by the Nazis be-
cause the Nazis wanted to replace Christianity with the worship of Germany's
pre-Christian gods.  (This was not highly publicized but it was no secret
that Hitler wanted people to transfer their practice of worship from God to
the State with himself as its visible manifestation.)  Wagner's Ring cycle
made the pre-Christian Teutonic gods both familiar and, the Nazis felt, ad-
mirably heroic.  The Nazis also connected with the general German veneration
towards nature and felt that the Ring cycle plugged into that as well.


Carrie		ceb@rechenau.unify.com	x6244		--------------------+
| "The Americans call me by value, and the Europeans call me by name."	    |
|							 - Niklaus Wirth    |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: plcdib@bristol.ac.uk (C D I Bertram)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Sviatoslave Richter (Was Re: Greatest living pianist (Was Re: Prokofiev, Scriabin, Piano works))
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:27:56 GMT
Organization: University of Bristol, England


Is the Richter recording of the Well Tempered Clavier on Le Chant du 
Monde the same as the one on RCA Gold Seal or different?
From: mixterhp@appstate.edu (Perry Mixter )
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Looking for Classical Wedding Music
Date: 18 Dec 92 20:10:54 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Organization: Appalachian State University, Boone, NC
NNTP-Posting-Host: caff.appstate.edu

In article <1992Dec17.164602.14299@hubcap.clemson.edu>,
jayc@hubcap.clemson.edu (Jay Crawford) wrote:
> 
> I'm getting married in June in a small church that has a nice pipe organ.  My
> fiance and I would like to open the ceremony with 30 minutes or so of music, 
> as well as have the entrance and exit with nontraditional music.  When I say
> nontraditional, I mean the standard "wedding music" selections that you always
> hear.  The church is Episcopal and has the restriction that the music can be 
> classical as long as its sacred, so operas, etc., are out.  I'm looking for 
> suggestions for organ music to play prior to the wedding, during the entrance,
> during the exit, and any hymns that seem appropriate.  We both enjoy classical
> music very much, but aren't too familiar with organ pieces.  Thanks!
> 
> -- 
> Jay Crawford          
> jayc@hubcap.clemson.edu

For preludes:	
Bach	     Air on a G String or almost anything by Bach
Handel    Selections from Water Music

For exit music
You CANNOT go wrong with the Finale from WidorUs Symphony #5 (Toccata), but
your organist had best be up for the challenge of playing it!  The Toccata
is played all the time in churches so it should pass your churchUs
requirements.

Go hire yourself a first rate trumpeter to play. He/she will suggest some
prelude music, and it is guaranteed to knock the socks off the
congregation.					

Good luck!

Perry Mixter
Director, Office of Cultural Affairs 
Appalachian State University
Boone, North Carolina  28608

Internet address: MIXTERHP@APPSTATE.EDU
Bitnet address:    MIXTERHP@APPSTATE.BITNET 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: sgsying@fourier.ecn.purdue.edu (Goangshiuan Ying)
Subject: Hoosier Holiday Seasonings - Concert of Indianapolis Men's Chorus
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: in
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 01:51:46 GMT

Hoosier Holiday Seasonings
Indianapolis Men's Chorus
Dec. 20, 1992 at 7:07 P.M.

Broadway United Methodist Church
609 E. 29 St., Indianapolis, Indiana


Christmas Comes Anew  Mark Riese
The Three Kings
A Ceremony of Carols

(intermission)

God Rest Ye Merry, Gentleman -- Mark Riese
What Child is This? -- Mark Riese
I saw Three Ships -- Mark Riese
Christmas is Delicious -- Scott Henderson
Fruitcake Philip Hagemann & Penny Leka
Canon in D -- arr. by David Lohman
Still, Still, Still -- Norman Luboff
A season for Lovers -- John-Michael Albert
Silent Night -- Norman Luboff


--
Goangshiuan Ying (Shawn)
internet :  sgsying@hartley.ecn.purdue.edu
"We live for a lifetime for moments."
"Time is not measured by watches, but by moments."
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: "alexander inglis" <alexander.inglis@canrem.com>
Subject: underappreciated composer
Reply-To: "alexander inglis" <alexander.inglis@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:52:12 EST

JG>I'd nominate Dvorak as underappreciated?  How often do you hear his Third
  >Symphony?  His Fifth?  Even his Sixth doesn't get played as much as it
  >deserves to be.  His Symphonic Variations on an Original Theme, Op. 78?
  >These are wonderful pieces, almost extinct nowadays.

Once you get past the fact that every third he piece he wrote was called
"Dumky" <g> ....

Last season they played the Dvorak Fifth here: it sent me scrambling to
hunt up a recording afterward. I snatched up the Libor Pesek with the
Czech PO on Virgin. Agreed: a very fine -- unexpectedly fine -- piece.

But there is a good deal of less interesting, albeit competent, work in
his oeuvre. "The Bells of Zlonice", otherwise known as Symphony No 1,
has bored the pants off me for years. Similiarly, I get tingles just
thinking about playing Scherzo cappriccioso but several of the other
tone poems, even at 10 or 15 minutes, overstay their welcome.

Bottom line: I don't think Brahms had it wrong -- good things come in
Dvorak packages. (May I nominate the Walter recording of Symphony No 8
as yet another desert island must-have? And I might just pack the
ASMF/Marriner coupling of the String Serenade with the Wind Serenade!)

Alexander Inglis  |  InterNet: alexander.inglis@canrem.com
Toronto,  Canada  |  CompuServe: 70307,20     BIX: ainglis
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ykim@cs.columbia.edu (Yong Su Kim)
Subject: Looking for Russian Opera videos in NYC
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 23:37:57 GMT


I'm looking for a video of the performance of Rimsky Kosakov's
follwing operas:

	Golden Cockerel
	Snow Maiden

I tried looking in Tower Videos, but they didn't have any operas by
Rimsky Korsakov.

If anyone knows of a good source in NYC for opera videos or a mail
order place, please send me mail.

Thanks.


-- 
===============================================================================
Yong Su Kim, Class of 1993		|  Internet: yk4@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Columbia College, Columbia University   |        or  ykim@cs.columbia.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: 4'33" again. (was re Ken Zuroski and Interesting phenomenon)
From: phoogenboom@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 13 Dec 92 16:02:41 EST
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <V0ToVB2w165w@student.business.uwo.ca>, r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith) writes:
> You might be interested in the ideas of John Cage whose most 
> controversial work, 4'33", consisted of several movements in which the 
    Is it?  On this newsgroup, perhaps, but in general? (There are 3 movements)

> performer doesn't play a note. Each movement is marked by opening and 
> closing the cover over the keys of a piano and is strictly timed. The 
                  Not necessarily.              Not necessarily.

> idea is that the movements frame ambient sounds so that they can be 
> listened to as music.
         One of the controversies about the piece seems to be exactly what its
         point IS.

> Needless to say, a lot of people consider the work to be something of a 
> high-flown joke, especially now that its shock-value has long since worn 
> off. But 4'33" nontheless remains an important step in 20th-century 
> explorations of chance and the environment as elements of music.
> 
> r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
> Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mart4678@mach1.wlu.ca (Phil Martin u)
Subject: Why no amplified solos?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:44:54 GMT

First, let me make it clear that I am not trying to be a smart-ass rock-head
who doesn't understand the concept or the innate beauty of accoutic recordings.

With that said, here is my question:

"Why do you never hear concerts of symphonic works performed on 'electric'
instruments?"

I understand that it really wouldn't work for large orchestras, but it seems
to me that it could be very effective in a situation where there is one 
instrument (like a 'cello) accompanied by another (like a piano). Has this
sort of thing been tried much? It's just that everytime I go to a concert,
and the soloist goes into a cadenza, I can't help but think of how much more
interesting it would be to listen to if there were a couple of foot pedals
hooked up to the instrument. If you watch the likes of Neil Young, or Jimi,
or Chris Duarte, during the course of a solo they will change the sound of the
instrument several times by selecting different pedals, switching between 
different pickups, and putting feedback to use in various ways.

I'm not saying that this should always be the case, or that 'classical'
music should strive to sound more like 'rock' music just because I like it
more. I am just curious to know if this sort of thing is done often, or if
it isn't, why not? It seems that some of the 20th century stuff I've heard
would benifit greatly from this type of treatment, as well as providing a
broader base of sound with which composers and performers could experiment.

Phil "if it ain't Jimi, it ain't shit!" Martin 8^)
Wilfrid Laurier University
mart4678@mach1.wlu.ca

From: herb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Herb Gellis)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 02:37:16 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Halvor Haug/Norwegian Music Info Centre
Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical

Jim J Moskowitz writes:
>In article <5170025@hpindda.cup.hp.com> herb@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Herb Gellis) writes:
>>
>>I am also interested in knowing what else Haug has written that is
>>available on CD. Currently I have two CDs:
>>
>>2) I believe on the Finlandia label (I don't have it in front of me):
>>
>>Symphony #1
>>et. al.
>>
>
>Just to fill in the 'et. al.', the cd I have that has Haug's 1st on it
>also has his Sinfonietta, and a piece called Silence for strings.
>Per Drier conducting the LSO.  It's on the Aurora label, which is why I'm
...

Yes, after checking back, it is indeed on the Aurora label. His second
symphony is IMHO better, bigger, more "inevitable" than the first. Initially,
on hearing his 1st symphony I though he was "trying too hard" to impress,
but I enjoy it more having listened to it a few more times.

Another fella you might check out is Einar Englund, a Finn. I strongly
recommend the CD on Finlandia (I'm pretty sure this time ;-)) that has his
2nd and 4th symphonies (2nd, subtitled "Blackbird", the 4th somewhat of an
homage to Shostakovich, written after hearing of his death). His first
symphony is also available, which is also pretty good (subtitled "War",
as I recall), and comes with his Violin Concerto, which has some good ideas,
but doesn't really flow for me. Anyway, have a listen!

Generally speaking, I have discovered a reviewer who seems to like the same
wide ranging kinds of modern post-romantic symphonic music as I do, so I
often follow his recommendations (that's how I found Haug and Englund, e.g.).
His name is Dave Hurwitz, and he writes for Fanfare. In fact he writes in
a very unstuffy manner which is often entertaining, and almost always gives
you a good sense of what the music is like. There are of course other
reviewers which I take with a large grain of salt, and run as far away as
possible from their rave faves ;-)

Happy listening!

 .                           .
 |=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=| "What will I be when I grow up?
 | Herb Gellis               | You are already grown up.
 | herb@hpcss01.cup.hp.com   | You mean this is as UP as I will get?..."
 |=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=| 
 |                           | David Gerrold, "When HARLIE Was One"
---                         ---
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tait@cs.columbia.edu (Carl Tait)
Subject: Argerich and Others (was Re: Prokofiev, Scriabin, Piano works)
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 15:28:26 GMT

In article <1g6eumINNbqj@gap.caltech.edu>
mrad@ugcs.caltech.edu (Michael Radford) writes:
>
>Yes!  Argerich is wonderful!  I was wondering, though, what people
>think about her recording of Chopin's Preludes (DG).  Is it as bad
>as it sounds?  

"Have you stopped beating your wife?"  I like this performance a lot,
but it IS one of Argerich's most controversial recordings.  People
tend to love it or hate it.

>Was she having a bad day, or perhaps being forced to
>record against her will?

Very unlikely.  She has made surprisingly few discs for an
artist of her stature; I doubt she would record anything that
she didn't really want to play.

>This is the ONLY recording
>by Argerich that I have ever been less than awed by--the DG release
>contains filler other than op. 28 which is just fine.

Including an exceptionally warm and beautiful Barcarolle.  The only
piece on the disc I'm not crazy about is the A-flat Polonaise,
which gets a little too hell-bent for its own good.

Oh, concerning the "Greatest Living Pianist" thread: Argerich is
certainly a strong candidate, but personal taste and choice of
repertoire make a unique answer impossible.  Here's a quick list
of contenders (repetitions are intentional):

Chopin: Argerich, Zimerman, Moravec
Mozart and Beethoven: Brendel (so sue me)
Spanish composers: de Larrocha
Generally luscious sound: Lupu, de Larrocha
All-around: Argerich, Richter

As an instrumentalist, Richter is hard to beat: his sheer control
at the keyboard would leave any pianist's mouth hanging open.  But
his interpretations don't always sit well with me; sorry about that.

And on the other side:
Most boring: Ashkenazy (now), Dichter (forever),
             Perahia (though he's improved a lot in the past few years)
Most unmusical: Ciccolini, Brailowsky (dead, but his atrocities live on)

Carl Tait

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks)
Subject: Re: Elgar's *Falstaff*, Shostakovich's *Hamlet*
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:08:07 GMT

| I'm
| interested in the inter-penetration between literature and drama and the
| stage and the film medium and, of course, music.
|      The Elgar is loosely based on both parts of *Henry IV* and was first
| performed in 1913.

Falstaff is twenty minutes of great music packed into forty.  It's too
damned long, and I love it.

Elgar was a serious reader and annotator.  In the case of Falstaff, he
studied the plays till his eyes bled, and faithfully transcribed the
narrative and character into the music.  The result is too-slavish
adherence to the text, at the expense of musical form.  Not that there
is padding, exactly; Elgar was guilty of that at times but not here.
But you really have to know the plays to understand the music.  Once you
do, every moment of the score is unmistakable; some examples to follow.
Since you asked about inter-penetration of text and music, you couldn't
have picked a better example.

Incidentally, we also hear parts of *Henry V*.

A noted Elgarian, Michael Kennedy, said this overture is really about
Henry, not Falstaff, and I don't buy that at all.  Sure, Hal has the
best tune, and he impinges on Jack's life all too much, but our man is
center-stage all the time.  Like Shakespeare, Elgar first presents the
man as a drunken buffoon but, as he develops the character, we come to
feel increasingly deeply for him.

Musical moments to note: the transformation of the main theme into a
drunken stupor (one of the great bassoon solos), and later into a
drifting off into sleep (handled better than the similar transition in
Symphony 1) while Falstaff dreams of his childhood in a wonderful
interlude.  Another transformation: the army's march turns into a
pastorale of great beauty as they return to Elgar's beloved West
Country.  The interlude in Swallow's orchard with pipes and tabor: would
we all be able to find such peace with such good friends.  The growing
excitement of the crowd as Hal rides into London, and then the
devastating rejection of Falstaff, followed by his death babbling of
green fields, with the transformed march again, which never fails to
bring a large lump to my throat.

Did I mention I love it?
-- 
David Brooks					dbrooks@osf.org
Open Software Foundation			uunet!osf.org!dbrooks
Allberall und ewig blauen licht die Fernen!  Ewig... ewig... ewig...
From: lbr@holos0.uucp (Len Reed)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Pianists
Date: 14 Dec 92 15:41:14 GMT
Organization: Holos Software, Inc.

In article <Bz3sAr.Mnz@unix.amherst.edu> mbfeld@unix.amherst.edu (A waste of bandwidth originating) writes:
>
>Personally, I think the culprit is TV.

TV?  Gee, I guess now every problem since 1950 is attributable to the
boob tube.
From: gustavo@dent.uchicago.edu (Gustavo Comezana)
Subject: Re: The BEST finale!
Organization: Dept. of Mathematics, U. of Chicago
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:16:02 GMT

In article <1gnii7INNibh@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> stinerkt@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Kevin T Stiner) writes:
>I just listened to Brahm's Symphony #1 over and over and over...  The  
>final movement is possibly the BEST ending to a classical piece I have  
>ever heard!  That sparked me to ask this question to find out what else I  
>should listen to to hear some amazing endings:
>
>What is YOUR favorite ending or finale to a classical piece?
>
>--
My nominations:

Brahms Symphony #4
Mahler #8 (from "Blicke auf..." on)
Martinu #5
Respighi Vn Sonata
Mahler #9

This is not to mean these are my absolute favorites (certainly Mahler
#3 would qualify as one of them), but rather finales that I enjoy a
lot and other people have not mentioned.

                                              G.
From: josh@aris.ss.uci.edu (Josh Stern)
Subject: Re: Messiaen Favorites (not Turangalila)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 19 Dec 92 01:17:51 GMT


I wrote:

>For Piano:
>     Visions de l'Amen (1950) - two pianos; Canteyodjaya (1953).  
                         ^^^^
That should have been 1943.  I think that 1950 may have been the date
of U.S. publication.

>     Yvonne Loriod & O. Messiaen, Ades.


- Josh
 

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical