From: wayne@tse.uucp (Wayne Hines)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Others did it, why can't you?
Date: 18 Dec 92 21:18:41 GMT
Organization: Toronto Stock Exchange

In article <37877@cbmvax.commodore.com> mitchell@cbmvax.commodore.com (Fred Mitchell - Product Assurance) writes:
>wayne@tse.uucp (Wayne Hines) wrote:
>>...
>>This is wrong because:
>>
>>* White ethnics immigrants have faced discrimination but were still usually
>>preferred to blacks
>>* First-generation white ethnics quickly learn how to hide their ethnicity.
>>Changing names, acquiring American habits/traits, etc.
>>* Second-generation white ethnics are often fully integrated into North American
>>society, have no noticeable cultural differences, and suffer little discrimination.
>>* Ethnic Immigrants tend to come to the U.S. willingly with an intact family
>>structure.
>>* Most U.S. blacks descended from slaves. Black slaves' family infrastructure
>>was destroyed, black culture was destroyed, black learning/education was
>>retarded.
>>
>>There is no credence to comparing the plight of North American blacks to
>>the discrimination faced by white ethnic immigrants. Even comparing the
>>situation to Non-white immigrants is faulty. No other U.S. ethnic group,
>>except for Native Americans, has suffered the wholesale cultural atrocities
>>that blacks have.
>
>I beg to differ with you. The Jews have suffered such atrocities (and worse)
>for millinea. Remember, it was 6 million _Jews_ that were sent to their
>deaths, not 6 million blacks.
>

The context of this discussion is North America, primarily the U.S.A.. How 
could you have gotten this confused with what happened in Germany ?  It has 
been estimated that 100 million blacks died on the slave ships during the
Atlantic crossings from Africa to the U.S. (Although some people attempt to
dispute this number). Yes Jews have suffered tremendous atrocities but not
in the U.S.A.

>>Contrary to the excuseful thinking of those who like to
>>blame the victims, the condition of blacks and Native Americans in the U.S.
>>is directly a result of the racial genocide
>                                    ^^^^^^^^
>Where there was an attempt at genocide against the native americans, I am
>not aware of the same against the blacks. The blacks were very harsly
>treated, but I don't recall a systematic attempt to kill them all off.
>

When one owns a slave ship and stuffs 500 people into the holds of it, knowing
that less than 100 will survive, and when one is part of a larger system which
does this for decades, then perhaps one is participating in racial genocide. 
This is without discussing the cultural genocide inflicted upon those who 
survived the crossings.

>>committed by white Americans,
>>and to a lesser degree the continued societal racism that these groups still
>>endure.
>
>Yes, and this group bashing can continue on and on ad neauseam to whose
>benefit? People must be looked upon and analyzed at the individual
>level. We do not choose to be white or black; therefore lumping everyone
>in blanket groups like this is grossly unfair to the individual.
>
>And it is this that perpetuates the hatred between the groups.
>Sad.

What group bashing are you referring to please give me an example of when 
I did this. Also, please give me an example where I have lumped any 
individual into a blanket group. 

I simply responded to an erroneous claim (one which I hear too often) that
U.S. blacks have not suffered more than white, ethnic American immigrants.
Although you may like to think otherwise, history and historical oppression 
impacts upon the present. If I post a note to USENET discussing the 
atrocities of WWII german Nazis am I participating in group bashing ?
I don't think so. The fact is that early *white* U.S. society was racistly, 
barbaric in their treatment of blacks and Native Americans.  

What is it you claim that perpetuates the hatred between groups. Frankly,
discussing recent American history, group bashing, or stereotyping 
individuals ?

>
>>__________________________________________________________________________
>>		Wayne Hines
>>		wayne@tse.uucp
>
>=== Fred Mitchell (mitchell@cbmvax.UUCP) ===================================
> Lorinda, the    ..      ///     Heroic rescues are embarrassing          ..
> 9th wonder of   .. \\\ ///      if you're not really in trouble.         ..
> the world! (44) ..  \\X//                          - Cally, Blake's 7    ..
>============================================================================
>tlk[?t(ap',;].0R\/Mpy#J<_r$H%s_PVZ:Kg*8P(9pduOpgxN-a,DUbwQm=$Z+kds>l<WxF.K8G

-- 
__________________________________________________________________________
		Wayne Hines 
		wayne@tse.uucp