HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: *** ULTIMATE BASHING for PeeCee Users
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: Amiga GRn V1.28 2/25/92 (Beta) by Mike Schwartz
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:16:00 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <kdarling.702663537@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu> kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:
>pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro) writes:
>>gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>>>[jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>>>> I was just trying to explain why OS/2 takes up more memory
>>>> than ADOS -- it has more features.]
>>>
>>>Doesn't OS-9 have MP and VM?  I believe it has MP, and it definitely
>>>doesn't require several megabytes...
>>
>>I don't think it has memory protection, and it *certainly* doesn't have
>>demand paged VM (or any other kind of VM, at least not the versions I've
>
>It has optional memory protection if you have an MMU.  It doesn't have VM.
>
>But to answer Gregory's question, the full bootfile on my 68070 and 68030
>machines, complete with networking, MP (030), and multi-screen windowing,
>is only ~130K of code, and needs around 100K of data memory.  But of course,
>the OS-9 system and drivers are written in small, fast 68K assembly.
>

Gosh, that's NOT possible (to write as complicated an OS as that in small,
fast assembly :):)  How many years before OS 2.0 was being worked on did
they start on OS-( 68K?

>Then again, it doesn't have a bazillion function calls and extra features.
>Just a nice, tight set... patterned after the Motorola cpu philosophy.
>

What a concept :)

>kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>

--
Author of Amiga GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle,
and Genesis Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Upgrading
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 04:32:37 GMT

skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip 'AdaX' Sauls) writes:
>Well, you could "upgrade" an original IBM PC with a replacement motherboard,
>SVGA card and monitor, HD and controller, etc., but then you are replacing
>practically everything but the case and power supply.

Yes, this is true.  I do not think the original poster (the A1000 owner)
replaced his motherboard, though.  (He posted his upgrades a while back.)
I did state this as an example upgrade path, but I meant it as an extreme.
The A1000 can be upgraded with much less of a overhaul.

>The fact that the first machine can be upgraded to run all current software
>is great, but I am afraid it is also holding back progress.  The A3000 is
>a hell of a nice machine, but the right side of the motherboard (the cpu, 
>fpu, ram, SCSI, buss, etc.) is being held back by the left side (the three
>original custom chips).  I would prefer a more "balanced" system that has
>32bit custom chips with at least 8 bit video and 16 bit audio.  If such a
>system were to be introduced I am sure that some software would break, but
>that is the price that must be paid sooner or later (hopefully sooner).

I agree with this entirely.  I am willing to sacrifice some compatibility
for the sake of advancement.

>At some point the upgradability of any computer will become very difficult,
>if not impossible, and a new machine is the best option.  As Amiga owners
>we should consider ourselves lucky that C= and third parties provide the
>means for us to upgrade to most, if not all, new features.  But we should
>also hope that C= will not let the compatibility issue hold them back.

Exactly.  The third party upgrades for the Amiga are outstanding and
top-of-the-line.  However, the companies are forced to make their products
compatible with existing Amiga hardware which lacks DIG and other things
that we need yesterday.

-- Gerald
From: Mike_Whalen@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Mike Whalen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: New Amigas Announced!!!!
Date: 11 Apr 92 16:43:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: agwbbs.Mike_Whalen.0brg
Organization: The Amiga GateWay BBS * New Orleans, La.

In a message dated Sat 11 Apr 92 10:18, Reaper@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (jaso
wrote:

 R> Personally, Bud Dry is my favourite.  Also: Bud, Busch Light, Genuine
 R> Draft,
 R> and about anything else.  Of course I ofter opt for a cold shot of
 R> Jack
 R> Daniels green label most of the time.

  Wait.. you actually LIKE Panther Urine (read: American Beer). What about
Guiness Extra Stout? What about Harp? What about Chimay Ale?)

  Jeez.


-- Via DLG Pro v0.991

  /-----  /\     /\    /      Fandom Activity Network Magazine
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Subject: Re: C= policy (Re: Apple problems "Home computer")
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 21:58:05 GMT

> Yeah, what's with all the low PC prices in the last month or so?  I've never
> seen anything like it!  I can buy a 386/40 with SVGA, 4 megs, 40 MB HD, mouse,
> Windows, DOS 5, and a 24-pin printer thrown in, for $2200 (US$1700) - I mean,
> that's including a printer!  Then there's complete 486 systems for under $3000,
> and even 286s, including SVGA monitors, for under $1000.
> 

	Complete 486 systems have been under 3000 for a while now.  You could
  buy a 33/486 with 4 meg memory, 130 meg HD, SVGA card w/1mb, and a monitor 
  for around 2800 back in july of last year.  Thats from Gateway 2000 also,
  a pretty good clone company. 

							G.Greene


> 
> David Meiklejohn                  | Internet : davidme@qdpii.comp.qpdi.oz.au
> Computer Systems Officer, QDPI    | Fax      : +61 70 92 3593
> Mareeba, Australia                | Voice    : +61 70 92 1555
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anyone See the New Video from Def Lepord
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: Amiga GRn V1.29 4/10/92 (Beta) by Mike Schwartz
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:16:49 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <1992Apr14.191444.16538@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> njg2@po.CWRU.Edu (J. Norell Guttman) writes:
>
>Hi Guyz and Girls:
>	Has anyone seen the new video "Adrenialize" from
>Def Leapord (I HATE HEAVY METAL MUSIC)!!!!!  However they
>had nice graphx which looked like something from Imagine
>or Lightwave 3D... anyone know what it was done with?
>
>OBamiga:  C= better have a better cheaper machine or else
>I am going to be very very very very very very ANGRGY!!
>

Looked like an SGI machine to me.  The user interface definately was.
Plus some of the graphics in the video were one of the SGI demos
(real-time FFT in 3D, sampling 16-bits at 44.1KHz from a microphone).

--
Author of Amiga GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle,
and Genesis Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: 040 and 486_ (bunch O' Kaka anyway)
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 15:01:38 GMT

mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>
>Anyone who codes in assembly will have NO problem optimizing the assembly
>language for either machine.  An expert in assembly language knows all
>machines pretty well.
>

Be serious.  Knows *all* machines pretty well?  In any case, no matter how
much of an expert you think you are, we can't let *you* perform the test,
since you obviously have a bias.

>>
>>What's wrong with using GNU C, for more of a "real world" comparison?
>
>GNU C doesn't necessarily have equivalent code generators for the two chips.
>There is likely to be more work done on the 8088 code generator, if there
>are more Unixes running on 8088 platforms.
>

Let's stick to the facts, and leave speculation aside.  GNU C is obviously
not *optimized* for either architecture, and yet it seems to produce excellent
code on both.  I just can't think of a test that would be any more fair.

>
>I AM an expert on both CPUs.  I know what to expect.  BTW, Motorola and Intel
>have already had their best coders do up benchmarks.  The results:
>
>25MHz 486 = 15 MIPS
>25MHz 040 = 20 MIPS
>

MIPS are meaningless because the 486 and 040 have different instruction sets.

>
>Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche)
Subject: Re: Zorro III Stuff (Was: Guesses, et al.)
Organization: MetaPro Systems, Perth, Western Australia
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 14:49:34 GMT

In <30215@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes:

[debunking that Amigas are at best cheap low-end workstations]

>Well, I dunno.  Sure, a small number of workstations around now are heavy
>duty graphics workstations, like SGIs.  Most of the color systems we have
>around here waste the color in the first place; you don't need color at all
>for most EE CAD (PCB design of course does need it).

You mention this for selfish reasons? ;-)

It's always easy to justify extra features to yourself.
However, one must learn to be a little less myopic in
selecting workstations.

Sure, I can handle a 70 SPECmark workstation with a gigabyte
of RAM and 32 gigabytes of disk on my desk. Question is:
Will it make that much of a difference over an A3000UX?

Depends!

Right now, the A3000UX would be heaven-sent. (I believe btw
that that's the most likely delivery channel at present.)
-- 
+-----+ Bernd Felsche                     _--_|\  #include <std/disclaimer.h>
| | | | MetaPro Systems Pty Ltd          /      \ bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au
| | | | 328 Albany Highway,              X_.--._/         Fax: +61 9 472 3337
|m|p|s| Victoria Park, Western Australia 6100  v        Phone: +61 9 362 9355
From: kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CDTV
Date: 10 Apr 92 11:57:50 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

Paula_Lieberman@amicol.UUCP (Paula Lieberman) writes:
>The A600 slot apparently IS for industry-wide standard compatibility -- I
>noticed some articles about that exact-named acronym in EE Times last fall,
>including, as I posted, that there were a couple of Japanese camera
>companies using that type of card in their digital cameras, which card
>would then be pulled out and stuck in a computer for display and
>manipulation and tranfer to printers for hardcopy......
>
>I would hardly say that going that way will hurt Amigas -- it's in my
>opinoin a quite forward-looking thing for Commodore to be doing!

Yes, I agree.  It was smart to use an industry standard.  In the past
few days, at least two new notebook computers (NCR and Nippon) have
been released which use the PCMCIA 2.0 standard... so lots of cards
are likely to come.

It would've also been nice tho, if the A600 (and CDTV) could've easily
used stock A500 bus peripherals.  Too many different expansion schemes
can be a hassle to support.

kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: lauch@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu (Chung Lau)
Subject: Re: Considering switching to IBM
Organization: University of Engineering, College of Engineering
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 20:04:52 GMT

In article <FZGRq*nW0@laosinh.stgt.sub.org> Gerrit@laosinh.stgt.sub.org (Gerrit_Heitsch) writes:
>In article <1992Apr5.224121.13332@ctr.columbia.edu>, Jerry Shekhel writes:
>
>> It could be, but IBM will supposedly attempt to change that view by bundling
>> OS/2 with its home systems (PS/1's) and doing heavy advertising.
>I thought OS/2 2.0 will only work on a 386/486 ?
>The PS/1 is a 80286-10 with 1 waitstate. Do you want to run OS/2 on
>such a slow processor ?

  286 PS/1 has been upgraded to 386sx, and yes OS/2 will be bundled on
it.

*---------------------------------------------------------------------*
Stephen Lau, Electrical Engineering, Univ. of Hawaii           
Internet: lauch@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu, Stephen_Lau@asylum.flex.com 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.games,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.multimedia,comp.sys.amiga.graphics,comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: rcj2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (ray.c.jender)
Subject: Re: Considering switching to IBM
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 13:02:37 GMT

In article <1992Apr5.005604.28229@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> nap42487@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Nishith A. Patel) writes:
>Gregory  Harp talks about how great the Amiga OS is compared to other OS's, and
>then says things which prove he has no idea what he is talking about.
>
>first, you can set priorities for DOS apps being multitaskedunder Windows.
>
>Second, about the 486's using V8086 mode: This mode does not mean you can only
>use the 8086 instruction set. That is wrong. V8086 mode just traps certain
>things and handles little bits and pieces to allow multitasking when the program
>is expecting a single tasking environment, i.e. DO. As an example, other
>programs that use the 8086 mode, like Turbo Debugger, allow 386 instructions.
>The debugger runs in one v8086, while the program being debugged, which can
>use 386 instructions set, run in another. There is a restriction on using
>protected mode, which is what is used to access memory over 1MB and to set
>up the v8086's, since then the program can mess things up.
>
>But Operating systems, like Windows and Desqview, have a simple add on that 
>allows to handle a program trying to use protected mode (which is a program trying to access memory above 1 MB, basically.) If the DOS extender used for the
>program trying to access memory over 1 MB through protected mode follows the
>DPMI standard, then it will work. Programs that use VCPI will not. Those that
>are using VCPI are now converting to DPMI (AutoCAD, for example). So that
>they will work under Windows. (I think Desqview can handle VCPI).
>
>Nish Patel   nap42487@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
>
>
	Please take all of this BS to comp.sys.amiga.advocacy pleeeeeze!!!!
	I want to read stuff about graphics here.



Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: Considering switching to IBM
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 15:44:17 GMT

ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
>gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>>Curious.  Who wants you to buy an Amiga?  The Amiga, like anything else, is
>>for people who can afford it.
>>
>	Well, if you had read the whole post, I was responding to a person
> who said that the A3000 was less expensive then a 486 system.  I was simply
> showing that thats not the case, at least around here ( in NH ).

Of course I read the whole post.  Of course a 486 system is cheaper than an
equivalent A3000.  If you cannot afford an A3000, then don't buy one.  If you
do not like the Amiga, then ignore it.  Simple.

-- Gerald
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: 040 and 486_
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 21:58:57 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.215747.1@cc.helsinki.fi> lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi writes:
>
>> Nish Patel   nap42487@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
>
>Please, stop writing your clueless postings as you do not seem to know
>anything about what your talking about.
>

Ha!  And you do?!  Really Jarkko, you did *just* what Nish did.  You posted
benchmarks which prove your point.  BTW, it's well known that HP's 040
machines do about twice as well on benchmarks as other 040 machines.  They
obviously found a way to optimize their compilers to fool the benchmarks.

>
>Jarkko Lindblad
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: rhealey@kas.helios.mn.org (Rob Healey)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Mac OS just sucks -- "ease of use" = "lack of freedom"
Date: 4 Apr 92 19:05:53 GMT
Organization: Rob's home system, Hopkins, MN

In article <1992Apr1.193021.24273@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>, rjc@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray) writes:
|>>Both Windows and Unix have this capability.  Please limit your stupid
|>>bashing to things you know about.
|> 
|>     I am not talking about dynamic link libraries, which still aren't
|> used as much as they should be.  Almost every Amiga link library
|> written has been made into a resident .library.  Please limit
|> your stupid followups to things you understand.
|> 
	Not that I'll make a habit out of backing up Jerry BUT:

	UNIX "auto-residences" ANYTHING that uses memory if a statistically
	significant number of instances are active at once, i.e. more than
	one.

	ANY part of an executable program can be shared between one or
	more processes. Text, data even bss. The VM system in UNIX is
	such that all memory is automatically shared amongst all processes
	that use it unless it is written to, then the one that writes
	get's it's own private copy. It's called copy-on-write... You
	CAN arrange to have areas scribbled on by multiple processes if
	you so desire that although message passing, named pipes or
	RPC are probably better ways of doing this sort of thing under
	UNIX.

	As a trivia point, there really is no such thing as a dynamic
	library under UNIX. What it they amount to are relocatable, position
	independant code that lot's of processes happen to make use of, nothing
	more. The first program that needs the code mmap()'s it in and all
	the programs after that just reuse that memory in their VM space. It's
	all a side effect of UNIX VM.

	So far, dynamically loaded drivers are the only glaring hole in
	UNIX in general although Convergent, Sun and IBM have UNIX like kernels
	that can do dynamic driver loading.

		-Rob
From: dano@usl.edu (Dan Stephenson)
Subject: Re: Wild rumor, potential for massive sea change in Amiga world...
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 04:14:51 GMT

jyoung@isis.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young) writes:

>All reports show Atari Falcon will have much more than even A3000.
>Does Amiga 3000 have..
>50 MHZ 68030
>DSP 56001 16 bit STEREO CD quality 
>640x480 up to 1280x960 at 60HZ, 64K-16Million colors
>1.44 Megabyte floppy
>SCSI Hard drive
>LAN
>MIDI
>..and price of around $1000!!?  The Falcon BLOWS past Amiga so fast!
>Even MAC Quadra is blown out!!
>WAKE UP PEOPLE IN BAHAMA!!!

Sheesh, this seems much for only $1000.

Oh yeah! No hard drive! No memory!
But still, this seems too low of a price for Atari to make any money at
all.

And:Are the joystick ports firmly on the SIDE now, are in some weird
place underneath?? :-)  (BIG tease wrt the 1040ST's joystick placement)

-Dan
.

--
Daniel Anthony Stephenson, player of Praetorius, namer of The Solarium.
dano@srl01.cacs.usl.edu das9674@usl.edu
"I can be, what I want to, and all I need is to get my boogie
down"- Al Jarreau.
From: kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: *** ULTIMATE BASHING for PeeCee Users
Date: 7 Apr 92 16:18:57 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro) writes:
>gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>>[jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>>> I was just trying to explain why OS/2 takes up more memory
>>> than ADOS -- it has more features.]
>>
>>Doesn't OS-9 have MP and VM?  I believe it has MP, and it definitely
>>doesn't require several megabytes...
>
>I don't think it has memory protection, and it *certainly* doesn't have
>demand paged VM (or any other kind of VM, at least not the versions I've

It has optional memory protection if you have an MMU.  It doesn't have VM.

But to answer Gregory's question, the full bootfile on my 68070 and 68030
machines, complete with networking, MP (030), and multi-screen windowing,
is only ~130K of code, and needs around 100K of data memory.  But of course,
the OS-9 system and drivers are written in small, fast 68K assembly.

Then again, it doesn't have a bazillion function calls and extra features.
Just a nice, tight set... patterned after the Motorola cpu philosophy.

kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
From: har@ux.acs.umn.edu (--SeebS--)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Memory duplication.
Date: 6 Apr 92 08:08:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: ux.1992Apr6.080803.11449
Organization: University of Minnesota

In article <1992Apr6.070621.11466@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
>I know for certain that Windows 3.0 DOES share code segments
>with multiple invocations of the same program.

Sure. So does unix. So does amigados. Etc. etc.

But the point is, it can't share *everything* - at least one data segment
will have to be distinct for each invocation.

>>Well, unix and amigados probably do it much *better* than windows; I would
>>be rather suprised if windows had caught up with unix, which after all
>>is only about 15 years old. :)

>Well be surprised :-)

Why? Windows hasn't, overall, caught up with unix. It's not even close. It
can share some memory - great, so? Unix has been doing that for years. Unix
still does it better. :)

>Colin Adams         Honours Student - James Cook University of North Queensland
>Shadowplay Software PO Box. 1201, Aitkenvale, 4814.  Townsville.  Australia.
>I've seen you smile, but I've never really heard you laugh.  So who is rich
>and who is poor I cannot say. - The Smiths

-s
-- 
Peter Seebach, using my fiancee's acount. (Please use "SEEBS" in the subject
line, so we know who it's for.)  Polygamy: "There can be more than one."
"I love using MS-DOS - waiting for the machine gives me so much free time!"
har@ux.acs.umn.edu (Love Incarnate)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.games,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.multimedia,comp.sys.amiga.graphics,comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro)
Subject: Re: Considering switching to IBM
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 20:53:56 GMT

In article <dano.702934918@nasa08.cacs.usl.edu> dano@usl.edu (Dan Stephenson) writes:

>BTW, I think the 586 will have a 32K on-chip cache, not 8+8=16K.
>Just clearing things up.

I wouldn't be too sure.  Just about everything you hear about the 586
is just a rumor at this point.  I've heard rumors of a split
instruction/data cache (of unknown size).  Engineering samples are
supposed to be available this summer, so maybe we'll find out then
(unless there's a non-disclosure agreement).

Paul



-- 
Paul Secinaro            | Synthetic Vision and Pattern Analysis Lab
pss1@kepler.unh.edu      | Dept. of Computer and Electrical Engineering
p_secinaro@unhh.unh.edu  | University of New Hampshire