HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Can we not all get along?
Date: 23 Aug 92 16:43:50 GMT
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley

In article <78151@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.230518.16486@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang) writes:
>>I thought at least you would tell me how they are similar, but at least
>>you come up with the question.  
>
>Both are divisions between people who have a common future.
>
In the long run every person will die, in the short run no two persons
have exactly the same future.

I can be brief too.

>>A society is a territorally circumscribed population which is not
>>ethnic group, nation, or fan club.
>
>I disagree with this definition.  There is no particular reason why a
>society needs to be territorially circumscribed, and there is no
>reason why ethnic groups, nations, or fan clubs can't be considered
>societies if they so choose to.
>
The boundary of nation, ethnic group, or fan club may coincide with the
boundary of a society.  (A candy may be brown and sweet, but that does
not mean brown is sweet.)  Fine, we have plenty of terminology
conflicts.

>>To get our discussion focussed, you have to state your position.
>
>My point is if overseas Taiwanese are considered part of Taiwan
>society then it is very, very difficult to explain why we all can't be
>considered part of a "big Chinese" society.  As a result of this,
>there are only two possibilities.  Either overseas Taiwanese are not
>part of Taiwan society, or we all are part of a big Chinese society
>which happens to contain many sub-societies.
>
Oversea Taiwanese is a society of her own right, and a Taiwanese can
only be a part of Taiwanese society when he or she lives in Taiwan.  I
told you that I do not agree with your premise last time.

I can accept Han as a dominant Taiwanese heritage and find a place for
Taiwan in the global Huaren society (Chinese only if you do not mean
Zhongguoren).  I have express my opinion that Taiwanese can be seen as
oversea Chinese on SCT.  This does not conflict with the existence of
Taiwanese nationality.  An colonial society of immigrants can evolved
into a nation of her own right.

>The difference between us is that we have chosen different resolutions
>to this dilemma.  I consider myself part of the big Chinese society as
>much as I am part of the United States society.

Where is the difference.  People have to live together to be a society,
and we all live on this Earth.  I can say there is a global Taiwanese
society covering every corner of the Earth land mass, but I can do
little to help my fellow Taiwanese in Africa at least less than what
their neighbors can help.  In the US, I recycle reuseable resources to
reduce the burden of local waste land fills to help my immediate
Community.  You can consider a lot of things, but what counts is what
you do.

Let's go back to your orignal attack on Taiwan nationalism.  What is
your problem with it?

TY Huang
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: chou@cs.washington.edu (Pai Hsiang Chou)
Subject: Re: A bit more detailed about the China-South Korea normalization
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 21:25:53 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.001017.19455@ultb.isc.rit.edu> txc6266@ultb.isc.rit.edu (T.X. Cheng ) writes:
>Korean -- a lousy people.
>
>When I just arrived US one year ago, I was shopping around to get a 
>reliable used car.  At that time, there's only one principle in my
>mind, that's ---
>
>N O   k o r e a n   C A R.  Past, now and forever.
>      ^^^^^^^^^^^

What kind of racist statement is this?
You have a bad car buying experience, but that is
no reason to label Koreans as a lousy people.
From: lmh@MIT.Edu (Minghsun Liu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: US born kids
Date: 16 Aug 92 02:54:01 GMT
Organization: MIT Lab for Computer Science

In article <Bt13x8.73p@acsu.buffalo.edu> stsai@acsu.buffalo.edu (Shuoh-Ren Tsai) writes:

   One of my neighbors is a female Graduate student of Medical School of U. of
   Maryland. She came to Buffalo to do research with her Advisor. She came from
   Thailand. And she is so small and young.
   When I told her something about looking for job in US, I was so surprised that
   she said, "No matter how poor Thailand is, I will go back to Thailand because
   it is my beloved country."
   If you tell Taiwanese students the same thing, job in US, the answers are as
   follows:
     1. Because of Recession in US, I have to go back to Taiwan.
     2. Because the living quality of Taiwan is not good, I want to stay in US.
     3. Girls:  If I get married in US, I like to stay here.
     4. US goes backward. I think Taiwan is good.

   What do you think?

   ---   Shuoh-Ren Tsai                        stsai@acsu.buffalo.edu   
	 Dept. of Electrical & Computer Eng.   State Univ. of N.Y. at Buffalo

I think it really has to do with how practical one approaches problems
in life.  (Since if I were asked the same question, #4 would be my
answer.)  However, if I were asked the same question 8 years ago while
I was in elementary school, my answer probably would have been exactly
what the Thai lady above said.  This is not to put her down but since
then I have grown very weary of rather empty ideological statements
such as that.  Some people will probably feel that I am heartless but
those feelings were associated with an educational process that has
misled and deceived me.  When I would proudly say to whoever asks that
"because it's my beloved country," I had a set of belief that I found
out later, through much pain, were taught to me through false pretense
and planned deceivement.  When I rejected those beliefs, that very
felling is also tainted forever in my mind.  Never again shall I be
led like a poppy dog.  Today, as I ride my bike on the streets of
Taichung, I feel like I truly belong here...just a feeling.  It didn't
come as a result of analytical calculation.  I am afraid of those
feelings, though, because it rings that alarm in my mind that this
might just be a result of me not thinking throughly a situation and
was just been misled again, like a child.  (Now some of you will
probably think this guy is not only heartless, but crazy.
Unfortunately, the scar is forever there.)  So I thought through the
situation and #4 is my conclusion.  And since I am more of an
utilitarian than anything else, if the end results are to have people
return to Taiwan and help transform it, it really doesn't matter to me
what the motives are.

- Minghsun Liu
  lmh@medg.lcs.mit.edu
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:11836 soc.culture.china:22925
From: mikemo@bullwinkle.Tymnet.COM (Mike Mo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
Subject: Joke on "seven items while opening door"
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:59:43 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.taiwan
Distribution: usa
Organization: BT North America (Tymnet)


In ancient time, China allowed the polygamy practice, as long as one can
afford.  A rich merchant got himself a second wife.   The first wife was asked 
to hand over the kitchen duty to this junior wife.  She give the second wife
"Tsai1, Mei3, Juan4, Yu3, Yen2, Tsah3" i.e burning wood, rice, soy sauce,
vegetable oil, salt, tea.

The merchant said: you missed one item, where is the "Tsu4( vinegar)" ?
First wife said: I will keep it to myself.

(~)/~)/~)    (~)/~)/~)         | mikemo@tymnet.com
 /  /  /      /  /  / /~~)     | San Jose, CA. USA
/  /  (_ o   /  /  (_(__/      | Just another Chinese in Silicon Valley
Disclaimer: My opinions are my own.  Copyleft 1992

* I will be vacationing in Yosemite, Lake Tahoe areas,  save your response
until mid-next week when I come back
From: ng@MOE.OPTICS.ROCHESTER.EDU (Baldwin Ng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: *** NEED HELP: Events for C.S.A. ***************
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:42:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: moe.9208141442.AA12073

Hello Everyone,

I was the President of the Chinese Students' Association last semester
at the University of Rochester.  This coming semester, I will help
the new President to organise some NEW and EXCITING events.  We really
want to see what kind of interesting activities other CSA's (both US & Canada)
have.

Thanks for your input (in advance),
Baldwin Ng
(ng@moe.optics.rochester.edu)
From: ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Zen Story (22)
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:34:00 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.taiwan
Organization: Muskingum College

In article <424@ub-tky.UBSPD.CO.JP>, tobac@ub-tky.UBSPD.CO.JP (Bach Frederic) writes:
> 
> 	** Is there any "modern" Zen story?
> 
> The modern Zen story is the one you read on your VTR. Isn't that modern enough?

	** No. It is just a copy of the old story. It doesn't
	   sound modern.
From: ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: No Taiwanese?!
Date: 19 Aug 92 11:24:22 -0600
Organization: Muskingum College

In article <1992Aug18.043624.10035@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, hwang@hermes.Berkeley.EDU (Kailan Hwang) writes:
> =
> =	   But tell me: what's wrong to have some military training
> =	   in high school? 
> 
> 
> CCP said, what's wrong to have some students killed?

	** Everyone should have certain extend of military training.

	   Agree? 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: jiyang@prairie (Jiyang Xu)
Subject: Re: (none)
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:13:26 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.060732.7707@ultb.isc.rit.edu> txc6266@ultb.isc.rit.edu (T.X. Cheng ) writes:
>  I have no idea about the PingYing used by Hongkong-er and Singapore-er, but
>I would like to tell you that the Chu-Yin used in Taiwan is NOT any kind of
>Romanization.  The Romanization used in Mainland was invented by Chinese
>^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Communists.  Besides, Chinese is absolutely different from Wastern Languages.
>The Chu-Yin used in Taiwan is totally another kind of symbols.

Not exactly. The Pinyin (not Ping Ying) system was based on the so-called
Latinized New Characters promoted by Kuomingtang Government around 1930
and 1940's. The communists made some modifications and made it official
in mainland in late 50's. Pinyin is not a romanization in your sense, either,
but just a replacement of Chu-Yin system, although there are people who
do support romanization.

To answer the original question, PinYin is officially used in Singapore
but not in HongKong. It was forbidden in Taiwan but not sure if it still is.
From: ctiao@riemann.math.purdue.edu (Chieh-Hsien Tiao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: US born kids
Date: 15 Aug 92 05:31:29 GMT
Reply-To: ctiao@riemann.math.purdue.edu (Chieh-Hsien Tiao)
Organization: Purdue University

In article <1992Aug12.180020.14833@odin.corp.sgi.com> yu@chang.asd.sgi.com (Yu Chang) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.014532.2307@news.columbia.edu>,
>cwt2@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Charles W Tang) writes:

>|> My point is, I don't think we've lost much "Taiwanese-ness" by staying
>|> here in the States -- but then of course that depends on how you define
>|> the term "Taiwanese-ness": does being Taiwanese mean you must care about
>|> Taiwanese politics?  Does it mean you must speak Taiwanese?  Does it
>|> mean you must like Taiwanese food? ....?

>I do care (just a little) about taiwanese (and chinese) politics.
>I used to speak fluent taiwanese (born and lived in Kaoshiung until 16).
>I like taiwanese food very much and I was lucky to live in california where
>I can get all kinds as much as I want.

Don't get offensive, to my point of view, one should choose firmly the ground
where he is going to stand. It's find to be an American or a Taiwanese, but,
to my opinion, not both. Jesus said, a servant can not serve two lords, you
will be in favor of one. I appreciate those ABC who are willing to keep
Taiwan in their mind, but usually end up with thinking of those "oversea
legislator". An Amerecan citizen should be loyal to and honor his country.
Instead of doing so, many immigrants from Taiwan are still swinging over
between Taiwan and USA, taking every advantage they can, and shaking the
loyalty of those 100% Taiwanese.

There is nothing wrong for a "used" Taiwanese to be an American, but they
must grow up and decide what they really want to be. If they still love
Taiwan, still feel they are Taiwanese, they are welcome to turn back, to be
Taiwanese citizen again, and PAY THEIR TAX TO TAIWAN. If they feel USA
is the real place they dream about, then concentrate themself to be a US
citizen, commit everything they own to this country.

Because I don't believe that a citizen of one country loving another one will
be any help to either one of the countries.
From: ahsiung@bbn.com (Anita Hsiung)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Many ugly Yankees!!
Date: 19 Aug 1992 15:17:42 GMT
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
Reply-To: ahsiung@labs-n.bbn.com (Anita Hsiung)
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

Jesse writes:
>Hi folks, if you love our country, please finish reading this.
>
>(stuff deleted)
>   I saw many Americans have no sense of traffic rules. 
>(examples deleted)
>  I saw many Americans work very inefficiently.
>(examples deleted)
>  I saw many Americans tell lies.
>(examples deleted)
> 
>  Every time the traffic in Taipei is discussed, the chaos is due to 
>an unreasonable excuse:"We are Chinese."  They don't know Americans are as
>same as Chinese.  Why is USA what it is now?  The spirit of being proud of
>their nation is one of the main reasons. Maybe it's also a shortcoming, too.
>Anyway, this kind of spirit is what Chinese need. 
> 
>  If you will go back to Taiwan in future, please don't forget to tell our
>folks that Chinese are never worse than Americans.  Give our folks more
>confidence.  Please do it for me and for you.  God bless our motherland, no
>matter which party governs, no matter what name it will has.

I agree, Americans as a people have many shortcomings.  They are
fallible to many human responses, corruption in politics, scandal in
marriages, some of their kids become criminals, some people drive
crazily.

But, some Americans are willing to donate their time and money to help
other countries that have just suffered through an earthquake, are
living in famine, some American policemen wait until a tow truck comes
by to change my flat tire on e freeway, many people donate blood, most
of them love their children and want the world to be a better place
for them.

Call me crazy, but I think the same can be said about many people in
many countries.  Thanks for the reminder that we're all the same.  I
think we should all claim Earth as our homeland.  Think of its, this
little spaceship is all we have of the universe!

	-- Anita --

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Anita Hsiung       | "See how easy life can be?" -- Johnathan Raven     |
| ahsiung@bbn.com    |                                                    |
| BBN Canoga Park    | "Someday we'll look back on this moment...and      |
| California, USA    |  run smack into the car in front of us."  -- Ski   |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Translated Taiwanese Poem (3)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 05:36:42 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.232901.17249@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang) writes:

>Aren't the two students of Gue3 Gu3-zi3's military strategy Sun Bing4
>and Pang2 Juan?  I am confused.

You are right.  Jang Yi and Sui Qin were later, and were no military
strategists either.  (They were more diplomats than anything else.)
From: stsai@acsu.buffalo.edu (Shuoh-Ren Tsai)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Why Use a Lightbulb
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:48:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: acsu.Bt8uxo.MM4
Organization: UB

lulu@ucrengr.ucr.edu (david lu) writes:
 
 
>Ahhh ... I see.  Sort of as a "witness" to that "nothing happened," heh?
>But a couple can't go out with a lightbulb *all* the time.  Given that
>Taiwanese are usually shy in the first place, it's kind of hard to get
>intimidate with a lightbulb around ...  Besides, won't the lightbulb feel
>kind of awkward?  I've always refused to go out with a couple, since I
>would feel that I'm "in the way."  But now that someone *finally* explained
>this lightbulb thing to me, I guess I'll tag along next time, if I'll stil
>get invited ...
 
It is not that simple. What is the problem which lightbulb has?
The problem is that Chinese does not respect privacy. Chinese has a Big
and Foul Mouth.
My friend tell me his story.
When he lived in Taiwan, he had a chance to date a beautiful girl.
Unfortunately one of the girl's female friends, lightbulb, go out with them.
Actually they didn't do anything.  But Miss lightbulb sometime mentioned Mr. X
in front of them.  Somehow or sometime Miss lightbulb compared my friend with
Mr.  X.  Miss lightbulb even told someone else about their date latter on.
That is why some of Chinese women are chang sir fu ( loquacious women of the
vicious type ).
What I am trying to say is the privacy.  We should learn how to respect someone
else's privacy.  Hey!  If you try to date a Taiwanese, you will understand
that your love story will be broadcasted in few days.

---   Shuoh-Ren Tsai                        stsai@acsu.buffalo.edu   
      Dept. of Electrical & Computer Eng.   State Univ. of N.Y. at Buffalo
From: hwang@hermes.Berkeley.EDU (Kailan Hwang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: No Taiwanese?!
Date: 18 Aug 92 04:36:24 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley

In article <1992Aug17.085429.3627@vax.muskingum.edu> ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department) writes:
=In article <1992Aug17.041105.5586@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, tsai@tecrus.enet.dec.com (Kuo-Yeang Tsai) writes:
=> 
=> She got a PhD in education(?) and was the one who strongly advocated the policy
=> that military officers should continue to keep their presence on campuses of
=> high schools and colleges.
=> 
=> I feel sorry for her and KMT.
=
=	** Forget her.
=
=	   But tell me: what's wrong to have some military training
=	   in high school? 


CCP said, what's wrong to have some students killed?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: kcsun@leland.Stanford.EDU (Ker-Chung Sun)
Subject: F2 visa
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 00:37:03 GMT

Hi folks:

 Can anybody out there tell me the following question ?

 For people who posess F2 visa and have been the U.S. for more than one year,
 Is it possible for them to get a legal part-time job or full-time job ?

 Any response will be appreciated.

K.C. Sun
From: ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: An old joke about Taiwan and China
Date: 20 Aug 92 04:29:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: vax.1992Aug20.102924.3641
Organization: Muskingum College

In article <1992Aug19.194246.18343@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang) writes:
> ....  So, are
> you saying that Earth is a sitellite of Jupiter?
> 

	** It takes lots of years to make the earth what it is now.

	   Besides, there should be human beings on earth. Otherwise,
	   who care where or what the earth is?
From: thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Telecommunication in Taiwan
Date: 15 Aug 92 00:23:07 GMT
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley

In article <Bsy9Fn.2z0@acsu.buffalo.edu> stsai@acsu.buffalo.edu (Shuoh-Ren Tsai) writes:
>thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang) wirtes: 
> 
>> In article <Bsy32p.n47@acsu.buffalo.edu> stsai@acsu.buffalo.edu (Shuoh-Ren
>> Tsai)  writes:
>> >If we have more than one Telecommunication  company in Taiwan ...
>> >
>> >
>> >---   Shuoh-Ren Tsai                        stsai@acsu.buffalo.edu
>>
>> A telecommunication company with all new optic-fiber lines linking
>> computers and carrying cable TV or interaction TV!!!
> 
>Well, I am talking about Telephone Company. Telephone Network is different
>from Computer Communication or cable TV broadcasting. Don't you think there
>exists a great market in Taiwan?
> 
>
>---   Shuoh-Ren Tsai                        stsai@acsu.buffalo.edu   
>      Dept. of Electrical & Computer Eng.   State Univ. of N.Y. at Buffalo


Why cannot you put telephone, computer and TV signal on the same
network?

TY Huang
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: A bit more detailed about the China-South Korea normalization
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 00:28:17 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.020623.14293@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> hwang@hermes.Berkeley.EDU (Kailan Hwang) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.001636.14987@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>The more successful of CCP's competing with KMT, the more
>Taiwanese favors TI or IT or whatever and certainly not Unification.
I can only say I disagree! I respect your arguments though! It is formed
acording to you info you over your life time so far, facts and fiction.
I do not intend to convince you with my opinion, becuase my opion with 
regard to those issues formed over years too. I just wish You can go to 
China Mainland take a look, then form you opinion!
>
>
>-- 
>| Above is my own opinion and I do not mind if Berkeley agrees with me. :-) |
>| E-Mail Addr.: hwang@postgres.berkeley.edu                                 | 
>| Real world: Kailan Hwang                              % flame > /dev/null |
>| "The job of a citizen is to keep his mouth open."    --- Gunter Grass     |
      How about those voiceless politically---Children?
      How about those voiceless physically--Unborn?
 "Freedom of speech" myth has let U.S. steal wealth from her future 
   generations!


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: txc6266@ultb.isc.rit.edu (T.X. Cheng )
Subject: Re: A bit more detailed about the China-South Korea normalization
Originator: txc6266@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 21:27:24 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.194855.21567@u.washington.edu> yeonwook@hardy.u.washington.edu (Mark Choi) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.001017.19455@ultb.isc.rit.edu> txc6266@ultb.isc.rit.edu (T.X. Cheng ) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug20.175939.15457@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> tsai@tecrus.enet.dec.com (Kuo-Yeang Tsai) writes:

>>>Taiwan is seeking to take actions e.g., terminate trading favor status to S.
>>>korea which has been granting many years (tried to please S. Korea) causing
>>>hugh trade deficit with S. Korea each year.
>>
>>Korean -- a lousy people.
>
>I am Korean, and therefore I am lousy? Leave your nonsense elsewhere like
>soc.culture.nationalist.idiots
>
>>When I just arrived US one year ago, I was shopping around to get a 
>>reliable used car.  At that time, there's only one principle in my
>>mind, that's ---
>>
>>N O   k o r e a n   C A R.  Past, now and forever.
>>      ^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>What is this racist attack? Are you angry at the notion that Korea might break
>off ties with Taiwan? If so, you must be angry at the 130 other nations 
>including Japan that don't recognize Taiwan. Only 30 nations recognize Taiwan.
>You are irrelevent. (and Taiwan makes the best cars?)

Well, my opinion is based on economy but not polity.  Just like the original
post said "S. Korea which has been granting many years (...."  S. Korea did
get a lot of economic benefits from Taiwan but didn't allow mass imported goods
from Taiwan.  Racist attack?  Could be.