From: leadfoot@bigbootay.sw.stratus.com (Mark Curtis)
Newsgroups: ba.general,misc.kids,misc.legal
Subject: Re: East Bay Regional Parks/dog restrictions
Date: 5 Oct 92 22:47:45 GMT
Followup-To: ba.general

In article <1992Oct5.053355.26183@adobe.com>, pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) writes:
|> In article <6987@transfer.stratus.com> leadfoot@bigbootay.sw.stratus.com (Mark Curtis) writes:
|> >If Phil didn't live next door and didn't have uncontrolled children
|> >it wouldn't be a problem.  Phil can build a fence around Phil's yard!
|> 
|> You don't have to have uncontrolled children to view an unsecured
|> attractive nuisance as a dangerous threat. Fencing children in
|> is unacceptable.

That is the point I was making earlier, it is your view and only a view
not the end all truth.  Fencing children is unacceptable ... WHY!  It's
done all the time.  Ever seen a grade school playground?  I can't think
of one that isn't fenced in.  It keeps them from running out into traffic
and getting hit.  The fence has worked well for years.  It works for all
animals, until they learn how to climb it.  Unlike many other animals
children learn to climb and then the fence only slows them down a little.

I view your children as a nuisance!  They aren't all that attractive
either, but I'm not talking about looks.  They run around carelessly,
break, trash, and trespass with no concern for what they're told.  Even
after being told to stay out they will come back.  Their parents don't
care so they don't either.  Even if the parent do care they wait until
their parents aren't looking and you're not home and then invade.

I'm not their parents so most will not listen to what they're told.
Even if you do find one damaging something or doing something dangerous
you have to depend on their parents to get rid of the problem.  Many
parents don't care.  If they can't be bothered why come after me, I
have no way to control them.  The worst part is that even though they
will not do anything to control their children, if anything happens
to them they go after everyone around.  If their children are so
damned important then why don't they care before something happens?

Face it Phil, I'm not a public service to protect everyone else's child.
I don't want them around, I told them to stay out, I told their parents
that they weren't welcome, and that is as far as it goes.  Beyond that
it is their parents who are their legal responsibility.  I didn't build
a pool on public property, I didn't plant a tree in public property,
and I don't want my yard to become their playground.  They have their
own yards for that.  If they don't, their parents should move to a place
proper for raising children.  If they're really that important to
their parents they would move to a more suitable location.

|> >All I can say to Phil and parents like him is this.  I understand
|> >why you want to protect your child.  I really can see that angle
|> >on it.  My problem is you don't see our side.  You try to use
|> 
|> I do see your side, but your side is irrelevant. Two wrongs don't
|> make a right. It doesn't matter what children have done to you,
|> you are not allowed to present a deadly threat to children. Period.
|> End of story.

As usual my view is irrelevant because it involves his children.
His children are more important than anything else in the world.
Have you been watching those "Bob" ads?  "Oh, it's you Bob"
Now he wants warm fuzzies at no cost just because he has children,
so its "Oh, your Bob's child.  Well in that case you can do no
wrong.  Go ahead and trespass, raise hell, and break things nothing
is too good for Bob's children."

Attitudes like your's only make me care less about your children.  Saying
it doesn't matter what kind of damage, noise, trespassing, and liability
you try to FORCE upon me goes way too far.  The more of that crap I hear
the less I care.  They just become the little rug rats nextdoor who's
parents think are more important than everyone else.  And the parents
really don't care enough to control/supply their environment.  To justify
this they declare their children exempt from all responsibility and state
they're never at fault.  If you're exempting them you must pick up the
responsibility you can't volunteer me.

If you really care you will keep them in places they belong.  The best
way to do this is teaching them right/wrong, to do what they are told,
and to respect another property.  If you don't you aren't being a
reasonable and responsible parent.  It may not be the child's fault,
but it sure isn't mine.  If you screw off raising your child the child
will pay the price.  Either it will get hurt, hurt someone else, or
get caught doing something "fun" and spend a little time making license
plates.  You failed, not me and whether you like it or not they will
pay too.  So don't let them down.

|> >Phil wants to make all the
|> >decisions, but send the premium bill nextdoor.
|> 
|> Don't get so personal about this. I did not write the law, I do not
|> enforce the law. I am merely explaining how things work. As for
|> your complaint, if you can afford a pool, you can afford a fence.

If you can afford having children then you can afford to protect
them.  If you can't you're just another person who thinks that having
children is a right, whether you can support them or not.  If you can't
afford them don't have any.  Children aren't the center of everyone's
life.  Even people who once raised children don't always want children to
be the center of their life forever.

Too many people have children knowing full well that they'll never be able
to support them.  They count on everyone around them to pick up the slack,
just so they can have something in their life they want.  You can't have
everything you want and you can't just start assuming everyone around you
is going to pick up your slack.  Just because you're a fully functional
sexual adult doesn't mean the world owes you a child.  Having and raising
a child takes more than the basics that get you started.  If you don't
have what it takes you shouldn't have any.  It isn't a right, it's a
responsibility ... your's not mine.

|> >but I'll bet a fence
|> >around your yard is much cheaper.
|> 
|> Fencing children in like animals is unacceptable.

THEY ARE ANIMALS!
Newsgroups: ba.general