HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: 891666t@dragon.acadiau.ca (Trish Turliuk)
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Organization: Acadia University
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 17:27:39 GMT

lynch@ils.nwu.edu (Richard Lynch) writes:

>In article <1992Nov6.030057.28538@dragon.acadiau.ca> 891666t@dragon.acadiau.ca (Trish Turliuk) writes:

> [a long diatribe on how awfully unrepresentative movies, tv, ads, etc are.]

Geez, it wasn't that long and I didn't think it was that bitter. *shrug*

>{sarcasm on}
>And, of course, it's so easy for all men to look like Tom Sellek (sp?).
>{sarcasm off}
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ nice touch- good for this written communication 
>Not that you don't have a valid point, but I want to point out that it's not
>clear that this is a *sexist* issue.  Lord knows I've been passed over for some

>"hunk" enough times.  :-( 



I *do* consider this a sexist issue and if the flip side of this coin bothers
you, welcome yourself into reverse-sexism.

Trish

a woman who feels that all women are not saints
and all men are not evil

-- 
Trying to help make a better world in which to live for ALL -who try to help
'even a blind man knows when the sun is shining'
NAMESGALORE-ANONYMOUS:Tish=Kermit=Herb=TR.=Spice=Pecute=FISHIE.FISHIE.FISHIE
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
From: mpdixon@eos.ncsu.edu (MICHAEL P DIXON)
Subject: Re: nude in playboy - dumb question
Originator: mpdixon@c00762-135wl.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: mpdixon@eos.ncsu.edu (MICHAEL P DIXON)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:00:09 GMT


In article <1992Nov11.003225.16464@neb>, jim@neb (Jim Hood) writes:
|> Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
|> Path:
|>
taco!rock!stanford.edu!ames!haven.umd.edu!uunet!news.mentorg.com!caeco!n
neb!jim
|> From: jim@neb (Jim Hood)
|> Subject: nude in playboy - dumb question
|> Message-ID: <1992Nov11.003225.16464@neb>
|> Organization: Nebula - Public Access Unix/bbs SLC Ut, USA
|> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 19:32:25 EST
|> Lines: 26
|> 
|> Sorry, I must be in a bad mood today.  Mabie I should be reading
|> alt.flame, but...
|> 
|> >dcarter@supra.East.Sun.COM (Dave Carter-Sun-Atlanta GA-Atlanta
|> District MCC) writes:
|> >: She is nude in this months PLAYBOY issue, can see much though.
|> >: A few other models in there, can't remember who off hand
|> >: ---
|> >:
|> >
|> >Which issue is that?
|> 
|> Since it was identified as THIS MONTHS playboy....
|> If you check the Message-ID line
|> -> Message-ID: <1992Nov10.105251.26701>
|> It quite clearly states what month/year it is.
|> 
|> -jim
|> -- 
|>
************************************************************************
******
|> *     Jim Hood     | mail/uucp: ..!uplherc.upl.com!neb!jim           
|> *
|> *    (alternate)   | mail/uucp:
|> ..!uunet!hellgate.utah.edu!caeco!neb!jim    *
|> * For you @ people |               neb!jim@uplherc.upl.com           
|> *
|>
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----*
|> *   Nebula - A Public Access Unix system/bbs  - Salt Lake City, Utah 
|> USA   *
|> *   Public Node  (801)-572-4969    Telebit WorldBlazer 
|> v.32/v.42bis/PEP    *
|>
************************************************************************
******
|> 
Sorry Jimbo, it does not!  It's the December issue!  Last time I checked
this
is November.  By the way, the picture of Cindy isn't worth buying the
magazine for, but the pictures of Jessica Hahn, the centerfold and the
article about Betty Page are! 

I only read the articles of course!

   Mike Dixon                           All things being constant, 
   mpdixon @eos.ncsu.edu                fat people use more soap.

THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED ABOVE ARE DEFINITELY NOT THE OPINIONS OF NORTH CAROLINA
STATE UNIVERSITY, THEY ARE PROBABLY THE RESULT OF A DIFFICULT CHILDHOOD
FOLLOWED BY ADULT DILUSIONS INTO SURREAL ENVIRONMENTS.

Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: rpeck@pure.com (Ray Peck)
Subject: Rosie Vela
Organization: Pure Software, Los Altos, CA
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:35:21 GMT

Anyone know what happened to Rosie Vela?  She was a pretty big model a
few years back (mostly Vogue covers, I think).  She recorded as pretty
good album with Donald Fagan and Walter Becker (the first work they'd
done together since the Steely Dan breakup).  I put on the CD
yesterday, and got to wondering "Whatever became of. . . Rosie Vela?".


-- 
Ray Peck						rpeck@pure.com
Pure Software						415-903-5100
2111 Grant Road
Los Altos, CA, 94024
Xref: sparky alt.supermodels:1762 soc.women:19450 alt.feminism:4286 soc.men:19183
From: jsp@uts.amdahl.com (James Preston)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:23:53 GMT
Reply-To: jsp@pls.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums) writes:

}	As to your statement about sexism existing in the society.  I had
}a major disagreement with someone about this with someone, and she
}wasn't able to explain it in a fair manor, but took a short class
}on Diversity in the Workplace that explained that 'ism' is something
}that the group in power does or can do to the non-dominant power group,
}so in our culture as a whole, blacks cannot be guilty of racism and
}women can't be guilty of sexism.  In different power settings where
}where blacks or women hold more power relative to men, the blacks or
}women can be guilty of 'isms'.  In all cases the non-dominant power
}group can be guilty of 'ist' (racist, sexist) behaviour.

}	A minor technical point, but one I thought I would clarify.

Absolute bullpucky.  A clear case of the PC crowd twisting the normal
definitions of English words to fit their own purposes.  My dictionary
defines "racism" as:  "1. The belief that some races are inherently better
than others.  2. Racial prejudice or discrimination."  Nowhere is there
any crap about the "group in power".  Similarly, "sexism" is defined as:
"Discrimination by members of one sex against the other, especially by
men agains women, based on the assumption that one sex is superior."
Notice that it clearly says *especially* by men against women, not
exclusively.  And again, no qualifiers about the "non-dominant group".

I will grant that the term "reverse" when followed by "discrimination",
"racism", or "sexism" indicates that the bias goes in the direction 
opposite to what has generally been considered the "normal" direction,
but a black person who hates whites is just as racist as a white person
who hates blacks.

--James Preston
From: kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
Subject: Re: Who the hell is Elle MacPherson?
Date: 8 Nov 1992 21:26:51 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: itchy.caltech.edu
Originator: magney@itchy

In article <BxDno6.9J3@hpuerca.atl.hp.com> krb@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Kevin  
Barnes) writes:
> 
> Yea she's the best, I see her every morning at 3am selling a stair step,
> she's a brain dead BIMBO!
> 

As far as I can tell, there is no way one can sell a stair-step exercise
fixture without appearing brain dead. :)

--
/---------------------------------------------------------\
| Michael Agney          | "Well, if we were to build a   |
|                        |           giant badger..."     |
|                        |    - Monty Python and the      |
| magney@cco.caltech.edu |      search for the Holy Grail |
\---------------------------------------------------------/
-- 
/---------------------------------------------------------\
| Michael Agney          | "Well, if we were to build a   |
|                        |           giant badger..."     |
|                        |    - Monty Python and the      |
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: stevenra@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Alex Stevens)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:13:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.Bx9HM4.I5y
Organization: Purdue University

In article <keithd.720940375@cluster> keithd@stallion.oz.au (Keith Duddy) writes:
>In <lfc6m5INNcv4@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums) writes:
>> --- "If women really earned fifty-nine cents to the dollar for the same
>> work as men, what business could compete effectively by hiring men at
>> any level?"    -- Dr. Warren Farrell
>
>I've seen this several times now and I've refrained from commenting -
>but I really want to know if it says what I think it says; "Men continue
>to dominate the employment market because they are superior workers AND
>women are paid less because they deserve less - the 'Free Market" tells
>us so!". What utter utter SHIT! (I can point out it's flaws at length if
>you tell me that I have made an essentially correct paraphrase.)
>
Keith

	I think your hot-headedness got to you or you should have read 
the .sig twice.  From what I get out the .sig, the quote is trying
to say about the opposite of what you inferred.  It's basically
something to the effect of "if women make half of what guys make, why
don't they all hire women, and cut salary costs in half???"

Calm down!
Alex
stevenra@feserve.cc.purdue.edu
s
Xref: sparky alt.supermodels:1737 soc.women:19399 alt.feminism:4250 soc.men:19142
From: williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Date: 12 Nov 92 00:57:53 GMT
Reply-To: williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums)
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena

In article <1992Nov11.100954.601@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> y0000028@rzab0.rz.tu-bs.de (Kielhorn) writes:
>There is one flaw in your statement: 
>You can buy a car as advertised, they are actually making these things witout
>bleached paint, torn seats etc. and when you don't like it anymore you are
>free to dispose it or sell it to someone who won't mind how it looks.
---
	Maybe you can afford a car as advertised, many can't.  Just like
most men probably don't have the necessary assets to obtain a supermodel.
This ignores the high cost in having such a supermodel, or some very
expensive sports cars.  

	As far as disposing of them later on -- as men get older the often
appreciate factors other than purely physical beauty.  However women
get rid of men they don't like as well (for whatever reason).

	Is this really a flaw in my statement, or did you just not really
consider the parallels far enough?


>With women it is a little different, they come in different shapes and only 5
>percent look similar to those models. What happens to the other 95 percent, are 
>they second choice (and therefor cheaper?)? 
---
	Quite often -- yes.  Some women who are very beautiful require alot
to keep their attention.  After some time, one might just figure they aren't
worth it.


>At least it seems many women feel second rate compared to those supermodels,
>even some beautyful wowen (in my eye) feel too fat and want to loose weight
>because they can't wear fashionable things which decreases their value even
>more.
---
	I feel second rate to some rich bachelors, athletes, stars (movie
or music), etc.  Should I feel second rate?  Should I care?  

>The whole thing is a plot to make women feel uneasy. As long as they 
>have _problems_ with their weight, they won't interfere in politic, science etc.
>They are occupied creating/restoring their beauty (Which by the ways cost 
>a lot and supports a powerful chemical industry) and we (men) can go on as
>we like it.
---

    Yeah right!  As long as we keep men busy trying to become rich, or
atheletic or stars, they won't have time to interfere in politics or
science...or gosh...maybe some guys might have the *intelligence* to do
what they really want and ignore sterotypical roles.  Of course poor
women could never do the same since we are obviously operating under the
assumption that they don't have the same intelligence.  Of course
any women who makes millions as a model of course is just a poor
victim who doesn't know any better and that she really would be better
off being a garbage collector.

-wat-
--
 --- "If women really earned fifty-nine cents to the dollar for the same
 work as men, what business could compete effectively by hiring men at
 any level?"    -- Dr. Warren Farrell
Xref: sparky alt.supermodels:1694 soc.women:19287 alt.feminism:4146 soc.men:19052
From: cpm00@ras.amdahl.com (Craig P McLaughlin)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,soc.women,alt.feminism,soc.men
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:16:46 GMT

Peter Chrzanowski writes:
|> Rather than raise adolescents who are so "sensitive" they'd never say
|> anything that would "hurt" anyone, we need to raise adolescents who
|> are tough enough, and who have the necessary critical analysis skills,
|> to thrive in a world of free expression.

<clap> <clap> <clap> <clap> <clap> <clap> <clap> <clap> <clap> <clap> <clap>

Thank you Peter!

Throw in a dash of common sense, and the ability to feel compassion, and you've
got a recipe for a very good human being, there!

--Craig

Craig McLaughlin  /  cpm00@ras.amdahl.com  /  Who, me?
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: panlilio@acs.ucalgary.ca (Victor P. Panlilio)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Summary: Politically Correct = Intolerant
Keywords: reason
Date: 6 Nov 92 23:12:55 GMT
Expires: Mon, 30 Nov 1992 05:00:00 GMT
Followup-To: alt.supermodels
Distribution: na
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <Bx9HM4.I5y@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> stevenra@feserve.cc.purdue.edu (Alex Stevens) writes:
>In article <keithd.720940375@cluster> keithd@stallion.oz.au (Keith Duddy) writes:
>>In <lfc6m5INNcv4@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums) writes:
>>> --- "If women really earned fifty-nine cents to the dollar for the same
>>> work as men, what business could compete effectively by hiring men at
>>> any level?"    -- Dr. Warren Farrell
>>
>>I've seen this several times now and I've refrained from commenting -
>>but I really want to know if it says what I think it says; "Men continue
>>to dominate the employment market because they are superior workers AND
>>women are paid less because they deserve less - the 'Free Market" tells
>>us so!". What utter utter SHIT! (I can point out it's flaws at length if
>>you tell me that I have made an essentially correct paraphrase.)
>>
>Keith
>
>	I think your hot-headedness got to you or you should have read 
>the .sig twice.  From what I get out the .sig, the quote is trying
>to say about the opposite of what you inferred.  It's basically
>something to the effect of "if women make half of what guys make, why
>don't they all hire women, and cut salary costs in half???"
>
>Calm down!
>Alex

Should it come as a surprise that politically correct folk are
more interested in their particular brand of dogma or ideology
than in accurately discerning the truth? Reasoning processes do
not seem to operate very well in people who have the PC virus.

Perhaps someone can develop a utility program that will scan for
PC code fragments in people's thought processes, and flag these
for optional deletion, if the infected party consents....

(shades of anti-PC thought control, Batman!)

Victor 8^)

(who can't seem to take very much seriously these days -- did
someone spike my punch? Then again, maybe I've been seeing too
many gorgeous men and women in underwear lately...*chuckle*)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: charon@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za (Mail Gateway)
Subject: 1000 Available GIF files....NOT
Organization: Wits Electrical Engineering (Undergrads).
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:20:59 GMT

OK, well at least I got your attention. 

Firstly, you've got to understand. Us boys in South Africa have been more 
than deprived as far as GIF files go. We can't even get Playboy here. (It's 
banned.) With that in mind, I'm pleading.... ,no, begging, for anyone who 
has any GIF files on Elle, Paulina, Cindy, Claudia etc...

If possible, PLEASE email me and send me info on how I can get these 
GIFs (or perhaps even the actual GIFs themselves.) 
You must realise how bad things are here as far as that stuff is concerned. 
We're taking strain !

Thanks.

The boys down south.
From: egilmour@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
Subject: Interested in obtaining news on Famke.
Date: 4 Nov 92 20:24:01 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

I am interested in finding out about Famke Janssen.  The last I heard or saw 
of her she was going to Columbia and living with a fellow named Kip who wrote
about her in "Elle" magazine.  I would like to know if she is still going to 
school or if she is modelling again or any other newsthat anyone may have. 

Janet
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: abistak@nyx.cs.du.edu (Andrew Bistak)
Subject: Uuencoding a file & Posting
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 06:08:57 GMT



I've got this gif that I want to post to this news group BUT
when I uuencode it and about to post it. Do I have to split the
file in Unix or will the posting do it automaitcally for me?

Thanks, Andrew

Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans)
Subject: Re: Elle MacPherson causes rape?
Organization: Cicely Public Access UNIX, Cicely, AK
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 01:07:40 GMT

dsblack@iastate.edu (Vilkata TDK) writes:

>said something that reminded me of similar experiences, tho not that extreme.

>Whenever any female friend (not SO) of mine sees my Elle calendar or a swimsuit
>calendar at a store, or even a similar gif on the computer, they almost always
>say, "Geez, that's kind of demeaning.  I hate it when they pose in swimsuits;
>I just think it's detrimental," or something similar.  I've found that this
>_always_ works:
>I ask them, "Yeah, but what if it was a Chippendale calendar/pic?  What would
>you think about it then?"  To which they kind of smile (they know I've got 
>them), giggle a little, and say, "Oh, that's ok.  I don't mind that.  There's
>nothing wrong with that."  They know I've got them nailed, but they respond
>honestly anyway.

Okay, what about those of us that *do* hate the Chippendales, too? What can you
say to us? What I'm hearing here is that it's okay if I do it, because someone
else does it. Please tell me that's not what you really think.

>the Elle calendars.  Why?  CUZ WE'RE HETEROSEXUALS, DAMMIT!!  Of COURSE guys
>like pics of girls and girls like pics of guys!  How stupid can these people 
>be?  It's just natural!

Is it? I hate beefcake. I do like pictures of men I find attractive in other
ways (friends, performers whose work I like, etc.), but male bods just for
the sake of bubble buns on my wall? Nah.

>The difference (this might sound sexist, but I'm just observing--any flames 
>will be ignored) is that I honestly don't ever remember hearing any of my male
>friends say that they were offended by the Chippendale calendars.  (Well,
>sarcastically, maybe, but _definitely_ not seriously.)  That's because we
>realize it's the same thing.  But I do hear a lot of girls complain about the
>calendars we like.  It's like it's okay for them but not for us.  Which, of
>course, is absurd.  I honestly wonder why guys can accept it but many girls
>can't....

Frankly, I know a lot of guys who have trouble with it, for the same reasons
the women cited: it makes them feel inadequate and doubtful about their own
relative attractiveness. Let's not generalize from our own circle of friends,
whose numbers are almost necessarily too small and homogeneous to make a good
sample, okay?

You did ask for other peoples' observations, right?

Marty

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Seems like there ought to be a way we could look each other in the eye
To see we're all in this together, and put all thoughts of victory aside.
Seems like there ought to be a way we could turn this fear into trust;
No matter what you say, there has to be a way --
Every living thing is counting on us."      

Marty Hale-Evans                                 M   @   *   O   %   8   U
89 Mass. Ave., Ste. 199, Boston, MA 02115       \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/


Newsgroups: alt.config
From: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Subject: Re: new alt.politics.* groups
Reply-To: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 12:05:48 GMT

In article <JKP.92Nov9031659@cardhu.cs.hut.fi>, Jyrki Kuoppala <jkp@cs writes:
>alt.politics.org.un		Politics of United Nations
>alt.politics.media		Media and politics
>alt.politics.economics		Political economics: taxes, gov. budgets
>alt.politics.sex		"Blue laws", decency laws, sexual behaviour
>alt.politics.equality		Equality and discrimination

FYI, here are the vote results from the talk.politics vote:

talk.politics.sex		Yes: 108, no: 59, total: 167, margin: 49
talk.politics.org.un		Yes: 101, no: 53, total: 154, margin: 48
talk.politics.media		Yes:  95, no: 60, total: 155, margin: 35
talk.politics.economics		Yes:  98, no: 64, total: 162, margin: 34
talk.politics.equality		Yes:  91, no: 65, total: 156, margin: 26

so it seems there's demand for the groups and because of this I though
I could skip the discussion phase of creating them as alt groups.

As there seems to be some (vocal) opposition to the groups, perhaps
some more discussion is appropriate whether to create the groups or
note.  However, it'd be good to have some substance instead of the
empty flaming so far.

//Jyrki
Xref: sparky alt.config:6768 alt.fan.bruce-becker:2
From: news@wolves.uucp (The Wolfe of the Den)
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.fan.bruce-becker
Subject: Becker Scats
Summary: recent sightings
Date: 10 Nov 92 07:20:28 GMT
Followup-To: alt.fan.bruce-becker
Organization: Wolves Den UNIX
X-Md4-Signature: 00ae66eee5b699fdca18c768017e3c75


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| Newsgroups: alt.flame.hairy-douchebag.meredith-tanner.ctl
| Subject: newgroup alt.flame.hairy-douchebag.meredith-tanner
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Usenet Net News Administrator @ The Wolves Den  (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
news@wolves.durham.nc.us  news%wolves@cs.duke.edu  ...duke!wolves!news
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Xref: sparky alt.config:6734 sci.aquaria:1610
From: oleg@netcom.com (Oleg Kiselev)
Newsgroups: alt.config,sci.aquaria
Subject: Re: alt.aquaria.cichlid (was: Re: alt.fishies.cichlid (Was: Re: new group -- alt.cichlid))
Date: 9 Nov 92 03:43:02 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

The most appropriate name woul be: alt.aquaria.cichlidiot 

Of course, the group is not needed and should not be created.  There simply
isn't enough traffic and what is there is easily accomodated by the existing
groups.
-- 
Oleg Kiselev at home			...use the header to find the path
Newsgroups: alt.config