HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: slg@slgsun.att.com (The Idealistic Cynic)
Subject: Re: When To Turn Car Seat? 
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:40:06 GMT
Keywords: When To Turn Car Seat? 

In article <1992Dec17.194818.27162@admin.kth.se> palm@admin.kth.se (Christer Palm) writes:
>>3 YEARS ??!!!
>
>YES. 36 month. Thats what the car security board in Sweden recommend.
>The recommendation is based on accident investigations and research work
>at Chalmers institute of technology in cooperation with car
>manufacture's and insurance companies
>
>/Christer

Uh, it might be safer, but I don't see how you could do it.

With the car seat that we use, and with all that I've seen, a two
year old wouldn't have anyplace to put his or her legs if the seat
were rear facing.  

In our car seat, when the seat faces the rear, the bottom edge of
the seat fits very snugly against the seatback.  If the child is
tall enough to need to have their legs over the edge of the seat,
they'd have no place to put them.

cars    |
seat--> |  / <-- child's seat
        |\/
	------

And of the seats I've seen recently, all would be like that.  So
how is one supposed to accomplish keeping a child rear-facing once
they get that big?

Sean.

---
Sean L. Gilley
sean.l.gilley@att.com sgilley@cbnewsl[.cb].att.com
614 236 5031 (h), 614 860 5743 (w)
From: martin@chiton.ucsd.edu (Martin Olivera)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: A few facts about circumcision
Date: 17 Dec 92 23:54:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: chiton.1992Dec17.235439.23455
Distribution: usa
Organization: Scripps Inst. of Oceanography - MPL

Just to give my 2 cents ... I was not circumcised, nor anyone in my family.
It seems to me it's a matter of family tradition, religious believes, or both,
to have a boy circumcised. I don't really know if there really are health
benefits. I never had any problems peeing, washing, or having sex due to the
"turtle neck" :-) at the end of my penis.
When our son Tommy was born we never even considered subjecting him to the
procedure. Now, a few minutes after Tommy was born I walked from the delivery
room into another room, following closely the steps of the nurse carrying him
to get his wash, get weighed and measured. As she was doing that and I, the
proud father, was taking zillion pictures per second of the whole event, I 
happened to hear these horrendous screams coming from the next room. I could see
through a window a doctor (I guess) and a nurse performing a circumcision on a
newborn. Neither parent was present. The baby was placed on a plastic frame
contoured as a newborn body, his pelvic area and torso were covered by a white 
sheet, except for a little hole through which his tiny penis was showing, 
his hands and feet were strapped to the sides, and the doctor was cutting while 
the nurse was holding the baby's head. For the brief moment I payed attention to
what was going on I felt sick to my stomach just listening to the baby's 
screams. If I ever had a doubt about circumcising Tommy, that took care of it.

If you are about to be a parent and have doubts about circumcision (i.e., you 
can easily go either way), I'd suggest you try to witness the performance of 
one. It may help you decide.
 
Martin
-- 
------
Xref: sparky misc.kids:30857 alt.dads-rights:3015 alt.child-support:4006 soc.men:21442 soc.women:21673
From: staffan@ca.serum.kodak.com (Kenneth Staffan (x37507))
Subject: Re: When To Turn Car Seat?
Keywords: When To Turn Car Seat?
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:40:50 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.194818.27162@admin.kth.se> palm@admin.kth.se (Christer Palm) writes:
>
>Can't reply by mail to smme@cbnewse.att.com!
>
>Your message dated: Thu, 17 Dec 92 12:50:50 EST
>>> In article <BzCwzo.G2J@unix.amherst.edu> njamal@unix.amherst.edu (Nuhad Jama
>>l) writes:
>>> >
>>> >I probably should know this from my first son...but, when are you
>>> >supposed to turn a backward facing infant seat forwards?  
>>> 
>>> When the child is 3 year or when the childs head reaches the to edge
>>> of the seat. The neck of a child under 3 is not strong enough to keep
>>> the head in place, burstings might occur in the neck due to the wait
>>> of the head, in case of an accident.
>>> 
>>> /Christer
>>> -- 
>>> "Destiny makes relatives, selection makes friends."
>>> 
>>
>>3 YEARS ??!!!
>
>YES. 36 month. Thats what the car security board in Sweden recommend.
>The recommendation is based on accident investigations and research work
>at Chalmers institute of technology in cooperation with car
>manufacture's and insurance companies

Does anyone know of a brand (available in the US) of car seat which would
allow the weight of a three-year-old in the rear facing position, though?

Ken
---
staffan@serum.kodak.com
From: Tammy.Vandenboom@launchpad.unc.edu (Tammy Vandenboom)
Subject: Lisa - The Smiley Lion Book
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:08:19 GMT

Just in case the mail didn't work. . .The Smiley Lion Book is now called
"My Counting Book" by Marybob Baker.  It is no longer a Golden Book.

Hope this helps you locate it!!
(PS We bought our copy at Walmart here in Raleigh, NC.)

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: ren@Turing.ORG (Karen Prestemon)
Subject: 22, Newly Pregnant--HELP!!
Organization: The Turing Project, Public Access Internet Host
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 13:45:04 GMT


*sigh*

I need help, and where the #$@!? should I begin?

I am 22, will be 23 in a month.  My husband is 22 also.  We have been married
7 months.  I found out yesterday that I am pregnant.  Well, we are very
young, and really have no idea quite what we want to do with our lives.
I was, and still am, planning on attending graduate school next year (if
I have to go part time now, that's the way it is going to have to be).
And frankly, we are pretty terrified.  I don't think anyone really knows
that they are ready to have kids, but we feel like kids ourselves.  In so many
ways we are so terribly immature and irresponsible.  Eric (husband)
is not thrilled about the idea, and has never liked the idea of being
a father, but that was something I thought he would grow out of
eventually.

Now we are going to have to deal with all this, on a shoestring budget,
no less.  We should have health insurance in a couple weeks (his job is
finally giving it to him, just in time!!)  I am not sure how to begin
dealing with all this, other than finding a doctor and telling my\other doctors that I am pregant (I am asthmatic...  god, I even had an x-ray the other
day!!).

WHAT SHOULD I BE DOING?  WHAT SHOULD I BE READING?  IS THERE ANYTHING
FOR ERIC TO READ?  I am the first of any of my friends to have a baby.
I don't know anything about this.  I am terrified to tell my parents,
because they know the financial difficulties we've been having.

BTW-this happened while I was taking the Pill.

Sorry for rambling on.  I have no idea what I am trying to say.  I am
just confused and scared and my husband is confused and scared.  And
my cats have the privelege of being out of the loop, but ohmigod!
I am allergic to cats and just got used to being around them so that
now they don't bother me at all.  What if the baby is allergic?
Can I still take my alllergy shots?

Oh, dear.

--Karen
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Ear Infections and Treatment
From: swk004@marshall.wvnet.edu
Date: 11 Dec 92 10:23:40 -0500
Organization: Marshall University

Our news feed has been flaky lately and I'm not certain this will
get out.  (If anybody sees this let me know, I'm starting to feel 
invisible.)

Anyway, there are some posts in this ear infection thread that
really concern me.

Many of you know that we had significant problems with ear 
infections with our son.  Unfortunately, we also live in an 
area where it is "in vogue" for pediatricians to be against
ear tubes and other surgical remedies.

After years of ear infections that turned into strep throat 
that turned into scarlet fever and behavior from my child
that seemed a bit "excessive", I finally pitched a major 
fit and got an agreement to insert tubes and remove the tonsils.

After the surgery (which was, in our case, no big deal), it
was discovered that my son had such a fluid build up that he'd
been virtually lip reading for quite sometime.  His behavior
following the surgery was so dramatically different that we 
know those "painless" ear infections affected just about every
aspect of his life.

The "non-invasive treatment" that my son received prior to the
surgery had something to do with the fact that he was dangerously
anemic, lip reading, developmentally behind in his speech and
constantly sick.  

Now, it may very well be true that for some children ear infections
are best left alone.  For others, homeopathy may be a good treatment
plan.  But to say "this is the way all ear infections should be 
treated" is foolhardy and dangerous.

Connie
From: janem@hpfcdc.fc.hp.com (Jane Marcus)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 15:29:21 GMT
Subject: Re: Celebrating Xmas and Hannakuh
Organization: HP Fort Collins, Co.
Newsgroups: misc.kids

>2) For "mixed" families - How has it worked for you to celebrate both
>Christmas and Hannukah?  Any words of wisdom to impart?  One idea
>is to tone down the Christmas gift-giving and spread it out.  What
>do you tell the children about the meaning of the holidays?  Any
>special traditions that have been especially meaningful?

This is why I posted a note asking for Hannukah ideas.  I don't want to
start the X-mas/Hannukah wars from last year, but I do have a problem
in my family with Hannukah being a bit too low key.  When I was growing
up, we celebrated Hannukah with a menorah and a gift or 2.  That was it,
my family wasn't particularly religious and Hannukah isn't that big a
holiday.  Now I have married a man with Christian upbringing and we
celebrate both Hannukah and X-mas.  The problem is that my husband's
family is incredibly into X-mas (my kids get a bizillion gifts, to
be put under the X-mas tree for X-mas morning) and with all the X-mas 
hype, my kids find Hannukah to be a little ho-hum. This year especially, 
with Hannukah crossing over into X-mas, it may prove difficult to maintain 
interest in Hannukah.  So I'd also like to get more suggestions on how to 
make Hannukah a special time for my kids.  Otherwise, I wonder if they 
wouldn't just assume blow off Hannukah altogether. 

Jane Marcus
jane@apollo.hp.com
Xref: sparky misc.kids:30696 talk.politics.medicine:395
From: dlin@weber.ucsd.edu (Diane Lin)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,talk.politics.medicine
Subject: Re: AMA Calls for Ban on Infant Walkers
Date: 17 Dec 1992 16:33:38 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: weber.ucsd.edu
Summary: not all parents are good supervisors

In article <1992Dec16.175240.18771@newstand.syr.edu> kgatling@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Keith E Gatling) writes:
>I've heard a few people warn me not to use a walker because they're
>"dangerous" (meaning that the kid could head right for the nearest staircase
>and take a serious tumble), to which my basic response is that the same
>thing could happen if the kid were walking on her own and *you weren't
>watching her*.  I mean what's the deal here?  Is this another case of people
>wanting something declared a safety hazard because they don't have enough
>common sense to realize that you don't just leave the child alone in it?  It
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>seems pretty obvious to me that if your kid is either in a walker or able to
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>walk by herself, you'd put gates all over the house, close off all the
>staircases, and keep a good eye on her at all times.
[...]

What is apparently obvious to everyone who reads misc.kids is not so
obvious to the parents whose children end up in emergency rooms
across this country because of walker accidents.  As I've posted
before on this subject, there were an estimated *24,000*
walker-related injuries in 1984 (according to the 1988/89 edition of
Consumer Reports Books' _Guide to Baby Products_).  I think everyone
who reads misc.kids also agrees that the proper use of car seats
is an essential part of caring for one's child(ren).  But how many
people do you see on the road with unrestrained children in their
cars?  I see nothing wrong with so-called paternalistic laws as they
relate to children, because many parents simply *don't* have the
common sense to take necessary safety precautions.  It isn't as if
there was a paucity of alternatives to walkers available to parents
with which to entertain their babies.

Just my 2 cents,
-- 
Diane C. Lin			"Live now; make *now* always the
dlin@weber.ucsd.edu	         most precious time.  Now will 
(Dylan's mom, 2 years)	 	 never come again." (ST:TNG)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: grun@intellistor.com (Paul Grun)
Subject: Re: Do dcotors still spank newborns?
Organization: Intellistor, Inc.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 01:27:54 GMT

In <Bz9ouB.Ips@inews.Intel.COM> vnoronha@mipos3.intel.com (Valerie Noronha) writes:

>My girlfriend and I were talking a few days ago and she asked if I had a
>preference as to whether or not I wanted my baby spanked after birth.  I
>had just assumed that doctors are no longer performing this practice as
>no one seems to comment on it.

No, they don't spank 'em.  At least _our_ doc didn't, and I don't know
anyone from our Lamaze class who's doc did spank 'em.

-Paul
-- 

goes to show, you don't ever know...
grun@intellistor.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: tanner@sundog.nas.nasa.gov (Leigh Ann Tanner)
Subject: Re: Sesame Street is HARMFUL to children (Was something else)
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 00:48:58 GMT

In article <19921216162149SASTLS@mvs.sas.com>, SASTLS@mvs.sas.com (Tamara Shaffer) writes:
|> >From: dlhanson@nap.amoco.com (David L. Hanson )
|> >Message-ID: <dlhanson.16.724534415@nap.amoco.com>
|> >
|> >In article <KMURPHY.92Dec16095759@orangutan.cv.nrao.edu> kmurphy@orangutan.cv.nrao.edu (Kim Murphy) writes:
|> >>While I'm sure most of us agree that
|> >>Sesame Street is great, we know it was never meant to be a teaching
|> >>tool inside the classroom.  We did tell the principal if we found this
|> >>to be excessive, we had no choice but to take it to the school board.
|> >
|> >Sesame Street is NOT great.  Jane Healy has a whole chapter in
|> >"Endangered Minds - Why Children Can't Think and What To Do About It"
|> >on the damage that Sesame Street does to young childrens' minds.
|> >In a nutshell, the fast moving "non-reality" images are not good for
|> >children. If anything thinks they are helping their children by sitting them
|> >in front of the TV, think again. (Healy's book is highly recommended
|> >for all parents; it is especially important for those who ship their
|> >children off to a daycare center or use the TV to keep them occupied.)
|> >
|>  
|> While we're bashing Sesame Street, I thought I'd add this bit: My
|> MIL is an elementary school principal (LOTS of experience teaching
|> 1st through 6th grade too), and she says SS is bad because it shows
|> lots of examples of children being sassy, sarcastic, and talking-back.
                                      ^^^^^   ^^^^^^
I guess I am missing something or maybe watching different episodes,
but I have not found this at all!  I do find that they show a lot
of inner city life and would like to see more country life/children.

I personally like Sesame Street and my daughter likes it as well
(2 YO).  I am interested in other thoughts about it as well.

Leigh Ann
From: vnoronha@dagwood.intel.com (Valerie Noronha)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Do dcotors still spank newborns?
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:50:21 GMT
Reply-To: vnoronha@dagwood.intel.com (Valerie Noronha)
Organization: Intel Corporation, Santa Clara, CA USA


In article <1992Dec16.155803.5227@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>,
cma@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (christine.m.dakes) writes:
|> 
|> I thought that the suctioning of the nose/mouth was enough to startle
|> or annoy the baby to cry/breathe, if not, I thought they just tapped the
|> bottom of a foot to encourage crying/breathing.  Notice that I said I
|> thought, not I know.  
|> 
|> Christine
|> 5 (?) weeks and counting.....!!
|> due 1/19 (?)


I am the one that posted the original article.  I received several replies
via e-mail and not one poster's baby was spanked to start up breathing.  One
poster attributed the spanking done in prior years to the amount of pain
killers given to the mom and the babies would be born drugged and sleepy and
needing a startle to start up breathing. I also talked with my doctor at my 
last appointment and she said also this is no longer done (at my hospital).

I also had assumed it wasn't done and wasn't concerned until a friend asked
me what my preference was.  It doesn't hurt to check it our though with your
doctor if you are concerned as I was. Spanking does seem a rather mean
welcome into the world and if there is a gentler way which can be used to
start up breathing so much the better.

Thanks to everyone who sent email to me regarding this topic.  One less thing
I have to worry about...

Valerie Noronha
due 3-10-93
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Ear Infections - Update
From: swk004@marshall.wvnet.edu
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:03:21 -0500
Organization: Marshall University

In article <1992Dec11.183330.12535@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com>, elise@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com (Elise Wade) writes:
> I do notice that my pediatric group has changed their policies
> on ear infections.  They don't have follow up visits to see
> if the ear is clear any more.  When I asked, the dr. said that
> their were now very convincing studies that showed treating
> asymptomatic ear infections wasn't helpful.  So, Susan, you 
> really are representing a change in pediatric treatment.
> 
> Elise.


This is what concerns me and why I e-mailed to S. Gauch and posted on 
the subject of treating ear infections.  The treatment of ear 
infections, in my opinion, is secondary to the initial problem of 
"why" is this kid getting ear infections.  

Call me crazy, but if my kid is getting back-to-back ear infections,
well, hey, I'd like to do something to make it stop.  

I certainly believe that there is a study or two indicating that
antibiotics are not that effective.  That's good to know.  
And it certainly would have been nice to have that information 
when I was trying to convince 4 different pediatricians that
being on antibiotics for 5 years hadn't done much to alleviate
my son's ear infections.

Not treating asymptomatic ear infections?  What?  Why?  Am I 
the only person that this strikes strange?  Your child has an 
infection.  Infection in small children can be dangerous.  Your
doctor won't do anything until the infection is bad enough that
your child experiences discomfort.

Jeremy is 7 now.  When he was an infant, my pediatrician told me
"absolutely no solid foods until he's 8 mos. old" and cited all
kinds of studies about why that was a good thing.  Four months
later when Jeremy was hollering all night another pediatrician told me
to "feed him some cereal that kid is hungry" and cited a study.  When Jeremy
was about 6 mos. old my pediatrician told me "no shoes" and 
cited studies why it was best for children to learn to walk without
shoes.  When Jeremy was 18 mos. old, my newest pediatrician told me to 
get some more support on that kid's feet and cited a study.  When Jeremy was 5 
and had had several cases of strep throat, 
two cases of scarlet fever, a bout with bronchitis all preceded by 
asymptomatic ear infections, my pediatrician at the time said "it's immature
eustachian tubes and he'll outgrow it" and he cited case studies to back 
it up.

When we ascertained that the chronic fluid build-up in Jeremy's ears 
accounted for the fact that he was almost totally lip reading at the 
age of 5, the ENT cited case studies that indicated Jeremy would
catch up just fine since there hadn't been any severe scarring.

Connie
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: J.Osborne@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au
Subject: Re: Depra-Provera (3-month birth control shot) query
Organization: University of Tasmania
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 02:57:15 GMT

In article <1g5kjgINN609@gap.caltech.edu> thogek@cco.caltech.edu (Thomas G.
Kiefer) writes:
>I have a brief story and questions for anyone out there who knows
>anything about the relatively new three-month birth-control shot.
>


Depo-Provera has actually been available in Europe since the early 70s - it has
other medical indications too, and its contraceptive useage would have been
more recently licenced.

The reactions described would have been idiosyncratic I think - they do sound
like the description of possible, but unusual, side-effects. As previously
stated, I agree the contraceptive effects are unlikely to have been
compromised. But I would think it would be wise to choose an alternative
preparation in the future, as the side effects could occur when the drug is
administered again.

Jo

(I used to work for the company that manufactures the drug.)
From: tuttle@blurt.oswego.edu
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: RE:  Pacifiers
Date: 11 Dec 92 20:01:32 GMT
Organization: SUNY College at Oswego, Oswego, NY

I'm a mom who was so thankful there was such a thing as a pacifier, not one
of those anti-nuc people.  Both of my children had pacifiers, both had that
need to suck.  I don't like to see a child over the age of 4 with one, but I
think it's fine until then.  I have a nephew who embarrassed himself in
kindergarten with his -- that's what made him give it up.  When my girls were
old enough to understand what "lost" means, we lost it.  My older one literally
forgot it in a restaurant a long way from home, and she didn't know she had
several of them.  I told her it was lost, and she cried for the lost for two
nights.  But that was all.  My younger one lost hers in the grocery store, and
it was the last one I had home.  I just didn't buy a new one because she lost
them all.  Both were between 2 1/2 and 3 years old at the time.  Good luck.  We
still have blankets, tho.  Children need to maintain some sense of security,
and I'd rather it be a blanket than a Nuc.  IMHO, of course :-).
From: jhagen@npri6.npri.com (Jarom Hagen)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Febrile Convulsions
Date: 11 Dec 92 17:20:09 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: NPRI, Alexandria VA

thogek@cco.caltech.edu (Thomas G. Kiefer) writes:

>In article <1992Dec7.155703.2075@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> f_markwort@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>>My 15 month old daughter just had her second febrile convulsion. This one was
>>much longer than the first (seemed like 2 or 3 minutes) and she didn't seem to
>>be breathing. The doctor assured me that she was breathing and said that in the 
>>future to lie her down and put her chin up until the seizure passes.
>>Does anyone have any experience with these convulsions? I may have a nervous
>>breakdown before she outgrows them.

Our sons went through this.  Do your best to keep her temperature down
so this doesn't happen again.  At least it only happened once per
child for us.

We went to the Emergency room both times like good *nervous* 
parents. :-)

Jarom
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Newsgroups: misc.kids