HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fwi@cco.caltech.edu (Bill Irion)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: coming out to family??
Date: 20 Dec 1992 01:24:23 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu


rks@cscns.com (gisle j benediktsson) writes:

>Hello... I have been reading this group for a while now and have noticed
>that there are many people discussing 'coming out' to their families. Now,
>I must somewhat admit that I am mystified. 

>I guess I really don't consider my lifestyle to be any of my family's
>business. It is not up to them to 'accept' me. They have two options in
>my own view: they can either accept it or they can fuck off. (That is 
>assuming that I have a piece of information that I may choose to share
>with them.) 

>It really bothers me that people seem to be bothered about this?Why in
>the world do we have a tendency to give these people so much power? 

I don't know what your family means to you, or even how you define it.
Well, my family (mother, brother and sisters) means a hell of a lot to me.
This Christmas I'll be laying the groundwork to come out to them.  I asked
the question to myself as to why should I come out to them at all.   

Whatever "duty" one feels to come out to family varies from one person to
the next.  I'm coming out to them because I think I owe it to them.  They
have been my friends in addition to being my family.  They have supported
me though rough times, and I hope I'll be able to do the same for them.
I feel that _not_ coming out to them would be dishonest.  Put another way,
and for me personally, if there's something that all of my friends know
about me, would I lie about it or hide it from my folks?  For me, no, but
others want their family _not_ to know for many reasons, and others have
different reasons for wanting to come out.  That's fine.

I'm sorry, but I found your post striking me as denigrating, although I
don't think you meant to cause offense.  I'm in
a dilemma about coming out to family.  Speaking for myself, I badly
want my family's acceptance.  I do give them that power, because I love
them and they love me back.  Anything that would lessen their love or
fundamentally alter it is a sacrifice that I, and I would think many
others, would not take lightly.  In a nutshell, I don't want to hide
it from them and I don't want to lose their love.  Are you mystified
about me now? 

Different people need different things from their family, whatever
form that family has.  There's often no rational explanation for what
people want from their folks, but then, no explanation is needed. 

Another muffin bites the dust.  Welcome to soc.bi.

Hugs,
Bill

 
--
Bill Irion    fwi@cco.caltech.edu
"Good manners and bad breath will get you nowhere" - Elvis Costello
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@rachel.ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Is personality visible through email
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:10:02 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
: When I met some soc.bi folk at the London Pride march and then up in
: Edinburgh, several people were surprised that I was not much like I
: appeared on the net. It appears that I come across as being 40+ years of
: age and have no sense of humour. I was amused when I met Kay Dekker and
: after chatting to him for about 5 minutes he proclaimed "You're nothing
: like what I expected. You're *smiling*!"

Actually, I always thought you were somewhere between 19 and 21.
I guess it's the boyish innocence and enthusiasm that did it. (How
old are you, anyway?)

G
From: winsor@geek.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (js)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Lurking Texans
Date: 12 Dec 1992 02:32:18 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments Incorporated, Austin
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: geek.teng.ppd.ti.com

In article <29318@castle.ed.ac.uk>, moragw@castle.ed.ac.uk (Alloy Serving Woman) writes:
|> 
|> Re: Why is there such a *silent* Texas contingency on soc.bi?
|> 
|> Well, I don't know about the rest of them but one of them is silently
|> lurking through me.  She was here in E/burgh for a while but is
|> currently in the states, en route to brandeis where she will (hopefully)
|> LEAP out of the woodwork and hurl herself without restraint at us all. 
|> 
|> *hugs* from Mo and Ximena
YUMMY!

YEA!
HURL away!

js
Xref: sparky soc.bi:16924 soc.motss:53174
From: tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
Subject: Re: Need A Date for a HS reunion (New Jersey)
Date: 20 Dec 1992 10:14:33 -0500
Organization: P.L.T.S., North Plainfield, NJ, USA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: plts.uucp

In article <1h097kINNr7l@sdl.Warren.MENTORG.COM> tal@Warren.MENTORG.COM (Tom Limoncelli) writes:

>So, does anyone in the east-coast area want to go as my "partner"?
>You'd have to put up with a lot of strange looks, at least one Public
>Display of Affection, and you have to promise to smile if I say
>something like,

By the way, the date is Dec 26.  Applications can be sent to either
email addresses.

Tom
-- 
Tom Limoncelli -- tal@plts.uucp (home) -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work)
Heros falling to the ground / like hell's magnet / pulls me down / on my knees
/ I try to please his eyes / his idol eyes. / Jerking motions won't revive him
/ mouth to mount resusitation / I just lay down beside him / and idolize.
From: williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Seperatists etc.
Date: 18 Dec 1992 17:22:13 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
Reply-To: williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums)
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena

In article <1992Dec18.140521.27525@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:
>In <1992Dec16.031456.10153@news.acns.nwu.edu>
>Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde) writes:
>>On one hand I think using the term "seperatist" was unjustified
>>in the first place.
>
>I was a bit surprised to find that "separatist" was being used (or
>being interpreted as being used) as an insult (at least at one point in
>this thread). Even the title of the thread (I've changed the Subject:
>line) "Attack of the Separatists" is far from neutral.
>
>(Feminist separatists are fine. Sure, some of my best friends are... :-)
---

    I hope one would afford the same blessings on white separatists --
including those in South Africa.  Arguments about one group having more
power than another won't wash with me as a justification for this.
If separatism is only fine for 1 group but not another,  then we are
discriminating on the basis of sex or race or *whatever*.  It is supposed
to be discrmination that we need to get away from.

	Some women, I am told, need healing space.  That's fine.  Some men
need healing space and support space as well.  Perhaps some whites
need healing space in some areas -- I don't know, I'm not there.  But
having something as a 'healing space' implies a limited amount of time --
not a permanent condition.

	It seems some groups of people believe that there should be permanent
separation or segregation.  I don't know if I agree with that.  In
that context, and in the context that segregation and apartheid are considered
wrong and not PC, so separatist would be in the same light -- and thus
a potential negative term.  

--
1935 will go down in history.  For the first time, a civilized nation has
full gun registration.  Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient,
and the world will follow our lead into the future.
                         --Adolf Hitler
From: mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Sexual consent (Was: Roy's "consenting" slave)
Date: 21 Dec 1992 07:10:42 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: earthquake.berkeley.edu

rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>It isn't important just to not have hir resisting.  It is essential, IMHO,
>to have the person's clear and explicit consent.

I won't disagree at all.  I would just like to point out that I'm glad
you left the word "verbal" out of that last sentence.  I have certainly
done things which were "negotiated" entirely non-verbally.  Eye-contact,
radar for detecting nervousness set to full power, and in extreme
situations, an ability to understand what a person's skin-tone is
telling you, can often suffice.

hugs
Mike
-- 
Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- g+ k+ s m- e? |    "Bloody nose and burning eyes
      Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and      |  Raised in laughter to the skies"
          backrubber of devotion          |                 - Bruce Cockburn
               --The end of confusion is the beginning of death--
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Re: anti-bi's
Organization: Jews for Melkor
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 21:22:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.200933.25655@koko.csustan.edu> bjm@ceti.csustan.edu (Barb Moose) writes:
>I just read the post regarding the terrible reaction to a bi button.
>I have found personally that I get it from both straights and les/gays.
>I initially thought that I would be supported from lesbians and gays, but
>NOOOOOOOOOO....   so, what is the reason?  I am confused.  I feel now
>like I really don't fit in, and have to re-closet from everyone.

What's the reason? Well, I've encountered this hostility, and
I've found a few different causes.

1. A lot of the anti-homophobia propaganda is based on the theme,
   "We didn't have any choice, we were born this way."
   Bisexuality undermines this argument. Okay, most of us didn't
   choose to be bisexual, but by and large we *can* choose to
   limit ourselves to the opposite sex and still have fulfilling
   sex lives. This means that fundy-types can point to us as
   "proof" that non-straights are being willfully perverse.

2. Related to that: We didn't endure as much of the doubt,
   confusion, self-hatred, etc. in our younger years as gay
   monosexuals did. We knew that we were attracted to the
   opposite sex, so we could think of ourselves as "normal".
   Even the bi's I know who are mainly attracted to the same sex
   fit this pattern. This makes a lot of gays think we're
   play-acting, fooling around, experimenting... we didn't have
   to undergo the trial by fire that they did.

3. A lot of lesbian culture is implicitly or explicitly anti-male
   (viz. separatism). You're "sleeping with the enemy". I've
   known gay men to be condescending and dismissive about
   bisexuality, but rarely to be openly hostile. Most of the
   bisexual women I know have gotten a lot of hostility from more
   traditional lesbians.

My $(2e-2)...

-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"We all have faults, and mine is being wicked."
                --- The Duke of Coffin Castle
From: winsor@geek.teng.ppd.ti.com (js)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Coming Out: The Report (and hugs)
Date: 14 Dec 1992 18:19:47 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments Incorporated, Austin
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: geek.teng.ppd.ti.com

In article <Bz5qxE.10A@ibmpcug.co.uk>, gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
|> 
|> js, depending on the flavour of unix you use, something like this will
|> fix your header problem:
|> 
|> put 'geek' in /etc/myname  and  'pend.ppd.ti.com' in /etc/domain
didn't work.  either.  hadta manually edit the post.  I *am* starting
to remember to do that... see this post's header.

|> 
|> Just think of all the mail you're missing!
damn.  I know.  I just hafta remember to edit the header.

Thanks, though!
and
e-hugs
for it, too!
js
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden)
Subject: Re: Oooh, am I miffed!
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 09:07:48 EST

> In article <MlR=7x#@engin.umich.edu> rowe@engin.umich.edu (Steven Rowe) write
> >Then I hear them saying stuff like "Did you see that pin?  Imagine
> >walking around saying 'I'm bisexual.'  Yuck!  What audacity!"
> >So I look over, and yes, they were talking about ME.  I smiled
> >demurel, got up, and found a much more bi-friendly environment...
> >Here.  Hug me?

Oh, you audacious devil!   Hugs, hugs, hugs!

Hang in there and take a few more hugs....

C'est la vie, and la vie is full of dolts.

Namaste,
Elizabeth



Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: rowe@engin.umich.edu (Steven Rowe)
Subject: Re: De-muffinning 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 02:04:16 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <BzGsHu.LCx@ibmpcug.co.uk> shelly@rachel.ibmpcug.co.uk (Shelly DelVeccio) writes:
>Hi everyone. This is it! You're not gonna believe this, but I've been
>reading this group since January and this is the first time I've had the
>courage to post. I guess there comes a time when you just gotta do
>self-indulgent, incredibly short-sighted things...;-)
>
Welcome to Fantasy Island^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H SOC.BI!

>So here I am, hug me, quick!
>
Jump!  Tumble!  Hughughughug.  Hiya, Shelly!

>Oh, and I just have one question: Ciaran is the moderator here, right?
>(Teasing, just teasing!)
>
>-sh
>
tsjYah, right!

Took me about a year, too.
P.S.  I hope you're happy; I've just bankrupted the planet to hug you.

                                Steve

-- 
Steve Rowe: B0 f- w- c g+ k+ s- e+ r-
I drank too much beer, then tried to sober up by drinking
too much coffee.  The result was that I was still making
irrational decisions, but I was making them *FAST*!  -me
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (Piglet)
Subject: Re: Understanding (was Attack of the ...)
Organization: just me...
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:34:23 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.060501.1588@news.acns.nwu.edu> Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde) writes:
[some really good stuff about understanding and empathy....]
>I would rather be told that I don't understand than I can't understand.
>
>Perhaps I don't completely buy in to this program because I feel 
>that it undersells the power of human empathy. Perhaps, it is because I
>feel some urge to try to understand; to not just treat feminism
>and/or women as ineffable facts of nature.
>
>At the same time, as I engage the subject of feminism I am not 
>just a passive receipient. I'm not convinced that assuming I *can't*
>(as opposed to *don't*) understand is a productive attitude for
>me to adopt. 

I have to agree with you--empathy and attention can go quite a
long way towards reaching an understanding...

I think the limitation of understanding another's experience
is the short life-span of the understanding state.  Not
from a deliberate sense, just that it's impossible to spend
all your time thinking about how things are for someone of
another race, class, gender, sexual orientation, whatever...
While your mind is on the subject, and you're concentrating
on the issues, you can get a pretty good idea of what things
are like.  And that's a useful thought experiment--good for
empathy building.

Someone of that group, however, doesn't have to think about
the effects, sie's living them...  Self-awareness is still
needed here, and that's almost as rare as empathy...


Piglet, waxing philosophical, or something...ew, I just
        got wax all over my.....never mind...

P.S.  Still searching for a Piglet stamp...
From: jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk (Richard Kennaway)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: More total blatant fluff
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:59:41 GMT
Organization: UEA School of Information Systems, Norwich, UK.

In <9234915.17977@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> nsn@ee.mu.OZ.AU (Nick Nicholas) writes:
>Richard Kennaway: so how does it feel being the only other bisexual on
>lojban-list, hmmmm? *snigger*

At last, someone's seen me!  About a month ago I gave a talk to members
of the department while wearing a *BISEXUAL* *PRIDE* *T-SHIRT*, and
no-one gave any visible sign of noticing, except one person who started
speaking to my chest instead of my face.  I'm now looking for an occasion
to post to a *SERIOUS* *TECHNICAL* *MAILING* *LIST* (Usenet newsgroups
don't count, nyah) since putting the double triangle in my .sig.  Not
that I expect that to be noticed either.

--                                ____
Richard Kennaway                  \ _/__    School of Information Systems
Internet:  jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk       \X  /    University of East Anglia
uucp:  ...mcsun!ukc!uea-sys!jrk      \/     Norwich NR4 7TJ, U.K.

Remember, it's uphill all the way; and when you get to the top it's still
uphill.  -- Kelvin Throop
From: mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
Date: 16 Dec 1992 23:54:21 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: earthquake.berkeley.edu

cathyf@is.rice.edu (Catherine Anne Foulston) writes:
>
>Well, I'm 5'4", or 163 cm if you like those better, have hazel eyes
>(how boring -- those cheesy romance novel heroines never have hazel
>or brown eyes, always blue, green, grey, or violet, but who wants to
>be like them anyway :-), and am having a Bad Hair Day.

Being like a cheesy romance novel heroine?  Hmm.. You mean, like,
capitulating to some dashing, wonderfully-framed stranger in some steamy
and utterly euphemistic setting?  Sounds quite delightful for an
evening's tomfoolery ... Further, if the "cheesy" refers to the heroine
and not the novel, and if it means the curd-product being applied as a
covering instead of being an aesthetic judgement, well ... roll over
Jeremy Paxman (unless he cares to be the dasher to my dashee).

>	Cathy
>	almost short and proud of it, so there

Ah yes.  So much better than being short and almost proud of it.

Oh, and I know this wan't your first post, but you can take a big, warm
and friendly demuffining hug while I'm at it.

hugs are also sent to the many and varied muffins I've missed of late
Mike, not keen on heroin but likes the genderfuck of being a heroine
from time to time
-- 
Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- g+ k+ s m- e? |    "Bloody nose and burning eyes
      Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and      |  Raised in laughter to the skies"
          backrubber of devotion          |                 - Bruce Cockburn
               --The end of confusion is the beginning of death--
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:33:06 GMT

In article <BzDEoK.IH@kathunk.phaedrav.on.ca> nigel@kathunk.phaedrav.on.ca (Nigel M Burnett) writes:
>and me 6'1.75", rather unkempt greying hair, hazel eyes, bisexual, and
>horny as ... (the rest of youse guys!)  :-)}
>					   ^<-- that's the beard

Mmmmmmmmmm....

>Doesn't anyone (other than the odd Ausie) want to visit Toronto?

Ah well, it just happens that I shall have to visit Toronto, 'cos
that's where Alias Research are located, no?

				Kay
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:34:25 GMT

In article <1grvrrINNt82@agate.berkeley.edu> mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd) writes:
>And no doubt being entirely endearing as she goes.  I know the hair days
>stuff - I eventually realised that that was why I looked at myself in
>the mirror some days and felt deeply ugly, then other days found myself
>catching the corner of my own eye, vain sort that I am.

I can't imagine you feeling deeply ugly, Mike; your pretty goes all the
way through.

>hugs, Piglet.  We all have bad software days ;-)

Hah! *some* of us don't! <- frantic lie to cover up deep sense of
trichological insecurity.

At least I know how big my dick is :)

				Kay :)
				
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (eleanor.j.evans)
Subject: Re: Help! I've been killfiled and I can't get out!
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:58:43 GMT

In article <1gmsfuINNmvn@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>Dan, who I don't think likes me very much, says:
>
>-> [Dan describes Roy]

>
>Hmm ... let's see.

[Roy responds, point by point.]

Roy!  Did you forget to count to 10??

Not everyone in the world is going to like you.  Not a crime--on their
part OR on yours.  Just a fact of life that some people rub others the
wrong way.  [Like one of my favorite people in the world whom I've never
met, whose every posting I read with anticipatory delight, apparently
thoroughly irritates another reader with those same postings...]

What exactly was your response to Dan intended to achieve?  He's not
going to read it--you're in his kill file.  Even if he were going to
read it, it's not going to change his mind on _any_ of the points--your
style of response sees to that--on top of the fact that you _can't_
make people like you.  Others who will read it either already like you,
don't, or are indifferent.  If they already like you, you don't need to
defend yourself.  If they don't, you won't change their opinion.  If
they are indifferent, a negative reaction like this could sway them the
other way...  Or they could still not care.

How does one spell achieve, anyway?  I started with acheive, then
switched to achieve, which looks right, but I'm confused......

I think your implicit response to Dan in your "what kind of a man is
Roy" post was more effective than this one....

By the way--not everyone judges people....  Sorry, but I couldn't let
that comment pass...


Piglet
From: moragw@castle.ed.ac.uk (Alloy Serving Woman)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
Date: 14 Dec 92 12:28:24 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

OOooh, my ego is beginning to swell already, Lynne your hugs and nuzzles
et al are wonderfully appreciated, ah the effect of electronic charm....
What is this whyte tyger?  Feline references slink up on me and I
cuuuurl over my keyboard in the (vain) hope that someone will stroke me.

I'm smiling far too broadly for anyone to imagine that I'm working, its
perhaps just as well that the only other person in this terminal room is
Paul Crowley, tapping away in the distance.  Wonder if he's reading
soc.bi?

E nuzzles and affection to Lynne,( the whyte tyger - conjures up some
beautiful images.)

Mo
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: Attack of the Seperatists
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 09:41:20 GMT

In article <iw.724524998@tosser> iw@tosser.Rational.COM (The_Devine_Dolly) writes:
[good stuff trimmed]
>In the same way, I have many men in my life who are feminist, and I know
>that a number of male posters on this group are self described
>feminists.  But after a certain level, I find - no matter how 
>understanding they are - that there are issues that are important to 
>me, and other feminists, that they just cannot get.

I guess you weren't using "and other feminists" to mean "and ALL other
feminists", Iseult?  Because if you were, I'd be surprised that there
issues that were so evident to feminists that all could "get" them,
whether they agreed or not, but that these men can't comprehend the
importance of.

Can you give us an instance?

>The same is true in queer/straight politics.  I have given up counting
>the number of times straight people have said to me, that they cannot
>understand why it is so important for gay people to have the military
>ban lifted.  

Nah.  It's not important to me, except that I'd like to see it imposed on
straights, too.  Any way of keeping people out of the military is fine
by me.

			militantly pacifistic,
				Kay

-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss