HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 15:11:22 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Game balance
	<Bxu83G.My3@acsu.buffalo.edu>


mjb@acsu.buffalo.edu (Matthew J. Bernhardt) writes:
>         Wow, have I been busy; I'm responding to nearly week old posts. :-(
> 
> bell@advtech.uswest.com (George Bell) writes:
> 
> >In article <BxH4Jn.L0p@acsu.buffalo.edu> mjb@acsu.buffalo.edu (Matthew J. Bern\
> hardt) writes:
> 
> >>Bottom line: a
> >>mage can detect everything on the screen, a priest cannot.
> 
> >Oh yeah?  How about the worst dude in the dungeon, Mr. B himself????????
> >A mage cannot detect him without a staff of detect invisible, and with no
> >speed items, you need to do a detect invisible about every tenth turn.
> >How long will your staff last at this rate?  A mage will be spending
> >a lot of mana recharging his staff.
>         
>         Don't forget that mages get Genocide (albeit at 37th level), enabling
> them to detect the presence of the Balrog WHEREVER he may be on the level.
> The mage can then WoR out of there if necessary.
>         You also forget Word of Destruction.  If the Balrog does show up,
> he can be driven off the level with this spell.  Priests are obligated to
> use it in scroll of staff form.  This is a common tactic for a player's first
> mission to Balrog country, when he/she is without speed.  The trick is to 
> play conservatively.
> 
Yes, and clerics get Glyph of Warding.  So they can set up a Room O'
Doom for the evil Iggys and Balrog (depending on which is on the
level).  It's unlikely that mages will get the vast number of scrolls
needed to do this.  I'll take glyph over Word of destruction.  

Also, a mage can detect Mr. B at 37th level, a cleric can detect him
whenever he gets detect evil.  

	joe
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
From: datepper@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Aaron Tepper)
Subject: How to implement webs
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:06:23 GMT

 How about having spiders randomly set webs around the room? These would
work like paralysis traps and, since webs are so fine and kinda hard to
see, would have to be searched for just like any other trap.

My $.02.

Tep

-- 
I'm too sexy for meiosis.
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
From: bjslagt@cs.vu.nl (Bart J. Slagt)
Subject: Re: XMoria Version 1.0 Release
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 13:05:09 GMT

lordj@vccnw05.its.rpi.edu (Joel Patrick Lord) writes:

>   XMoria version 1.0 has been released!  It's on ftp.cis.ksu.edu, in
>/pub/Games/Moria/XMoria for anonymous ftp.

>Joel Lord (lordj@rpi.edu) -- Author of the X interface of XMoria
>-- 
>Sleep is a very valuable commodity.  Unfortunately, you never realize
>just how valuable it is, until you can't get any.

It's a nice port, but just after I enter wizardmode I get this:

X Error of failed request:  BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation)
  Major opcode of failed request:  61 (X_ClearArea)
  Value in failed request:  0x38
  Serial number of failed request:  48017
  Current serial number in output stream:  48020

(!!!!????)


Greetings, Bart
From: f1toyl@uta.fi (Topi Ylinen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
Subject: Re: Mages Priests -- the battle continues
Date: 23 Nov 92 08:02:03 GMT
Organization: University of Tampere, Finland

In article <Af3b4sm00Vp0I9J0h5@andrew.cmu.edu> jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph E. 
Beck) writes:
>
>f1toyl@uta.fi (Topi Ylinen) writes:
>> In article <1992Nov19.175429.28234@muddcs.claremont.edu> dgreen@jarthur.clar
emo
>> nt.edu (David Green) writes:
>> >In some article "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>> >->Yes, the [identify] scrolls take up an inventory slot, but mages
>> >->have to use a slot for Word of Recall scrolls.
>> >
>> >So do priests.  What's your point?
>> 
>> How long do you normally stay underground? I tend use some 50 identify spell
s
>> per _ONE_ WoR scroll. Yup, always identify everything which might be useful.
>> That would mean you'd need to carry a *REAL LOT* of identify scrolls as (eve
r
>> heard of weight limits?) as opposed to a minimum of 2 WoR scrolls.
>
>First of all you tend to use identifies a lot at first, but once you
>know what the wands are you don't tend to identify them (if a priest
>or paladin).  So later on you only need identifies for things like
>rings and weapons.  Weight limits?  No, my half troll priest hasn't
>heard of weight limits.  Low and mid level mages tend to be the only
>class I've had this problem with.
>

You mean you've never ended up selling or throwing away a +15/+12 HA as I have?
Once _that_ has happened to you, you *will* identify _every_ weapon & piece of
armour you come across.
As for weight limits, I have even now so much stuff that it is often hard to
decide which to keep and which to toss away.


--

Der Wanderer
Level 39 magic-user (muscular: str 18/00)
Still at 6500'
From: smidt@fy.chalmers.se (Peter Smidt)
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
Subject: Re: Tougher Balrog Suggestion
Date: 16 Nov 92 04:45:47 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology

In article <b8p18##@rpi.edu> petitc@rpi.edu writes:
>Well, I can't represent Sauron properly, so I decided to make the big B
>tougher.  Now, if he breathes on you, you WILL DIE, unless he's been REALLY
>weakened---he has 90d120 maximized HP, AC of 150, moves speed +3, can touch to
>disenchant and eat magic charges, as well as crush for 12d17 and touch fire for
>20d10.  Potions of Invunerability are a MUST.
>
>He also does the typical B magic (summon monsters/undead/paralysis/blind/confuse/
>drain mana/breathe fire/teleport you to him), 1 in 2 times.

Well, I can't represent Sauron properly, so I decided to make the big B
tougher.  Now, if he breathes on you, you WILL DIE, unless he's is dead.
He has 90d1200000 maximized HP, AC of 15000, moves speed +30, can touch to
disenchant and eat magic charges, as well as crush for 12d17000 and touch fire
for 20d100000.  Potions of Invunerability are a MUST.

He also does the typical B magic (summon monsters/undead/paralysis/blind/confuse/
drain mana/dispel player/breathe fire/teleport you to him), 100 in 2 times.
-- 
+=======================================+
"The whole valley is like a smorgasbord."
					-- TREMORS
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
From: dgreen@jarthur.claremont.edu (David Green)
Subject: Re: ULTIMATE GHOST (Muhahaha)
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:06:18 GMT

In article <t4w1!q-@rpi.edu> petitc@rpi.edu writes:
->  Well, I just made the King Ghost (Not that name).  Tell me what you think of
->THIS puppy:  ;&)
->
->The Grim Reaper:
->At least 32767 of these creatures have been killed by contributors to your
->monster memory. It is normally found at depths of 2500 feet, and moves very
->quickly. A kill of this evil undead creature is worth 38461.54 points for a
->26th level character.It can breathe poison gases, and is also magical, casting
->spells which teleport short distances, teleport long distances, teleport its
->prey,paralyse its prey, induce blindness, terrify, summon the undead, slow its
->prey or drain mana; 1 time in 5. It has an armor rating of 100 and a maximized
->life rating of 20d40. It can move invisibly, open doors, pass through walls,
->kill weaker creatures and pick up objects.It is susceptible to fire and bright
->light. It cannot be charmed or slept. It is ever vigilant for intruders, which
->it may notice from 200 feet. It may carry up to 15 objects. It can hit to
->attack with damage 4d6, touch to lower experience by 3d4, gaze to disenchant,
->and touch to absorb charges.

Hmm... I made my own:

Z - Knight of the Living Dead.
At least 32767 of these creatures have been killed by contributors to your
monster memory. It is normally found at depths of 2500 feet, and moves quickly.
A kill of this evil undead creature is worth 27500.00 points for a 40th level 
character. It is magical, casting spells which teleport short distances,
teleport long distances, teleport its prey, cause serious wounds, paralyse its 
prey, induce blindness, terrify, summon the undead, slow its prey or drain
mana; 1 time in 3. It has an armor rating of 110 and a maximized life rating of
70d40. It can move invisibly, open doors, pass through walls, kill weaker
creatures and pick up objects. It cannot be charmed or slept. It is ever
vigilant for intruders, which it may notice from 350 feet. It may carry up to
16 objects or treasures. It can hit to attack with damage 5d5, touch to drain
intelligence with damage 3d6, touch to drain wisdom with damage 2d8, and touch
to lower experience by 4d7.
-- 
dgreen@jarthur.claremont.edu		        	   David "Mishael" Green
		    Have you scritched your local Furry today? 
************************Who ordered the muon? -- I. I. Rabi*********************
  I have not been appointed Judge, Jury, or Executioner by God.  Just witness.
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:25:54 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Balance


Jeremy S Vipperman <jv19+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> >From a post by Julie Lim:
> > at 12800ft., still looking for Boots of Speed.
> >
> 
> 
> In my opinion is there any better item than speed? That's why I like
> mages. Not only can they kill from a distance but can easily move
> faster than their opposition with Haste Self. 
> 
>         But given a choice a would much prefer a Ring or Boots of
> Speed to an Amulet of the Magi, a Holy Avenger, or Resist Armor. Who
> cares that you have a HA (+100, +100) [+20] (+8 to strength) I would
> still prefer the little (+1) of the Ring of Speed.
Hmmmm...if you made that a DF instead of an HA I'd take the DF over
the ring of speed.  But in general speed is the best item you can
have.  The problem with mages is that they're fast but what do they
use again *MHD's?  Since *MHD's are resistant to anything the mages
can throw at them (except magic missile) they have real problems
damaging them.  This is why I like clerics, all dragons take *double*
damage from OOD.  

	joe

Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
From: arsmith@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Alan Smith)
Subject: Re: Shocking swords?
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 05:42:27 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <1992Nov17.050818.17706@muddcs.claremont.edu> dgreen@jarthur.claremont.edu (David Green) writes:
>How unbalancing do people think it would be to throw in another type of ego
>weapon: one that does lightning damage to a creature?  (My thought on the
>matter would be to call it SF--storm forged--but there're probably better
>ideas out there. :)

Not very.  Useful for those creatures that are vulnerable to lightning.

Speaking of unbalancing the game, Be lookin for the next in the Great Sword
typeclass series...

Bigal the Frosty.  Weilding a Gynsoo right now...
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
From: c8944257@cc.newcastle.edu.au
Subject: PC Moria 6.0
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 05:26:11 GMT

Does anybody out there knows when PC Moria 6.0 is coming out?
I'm hoping to get a copy real soon.  Will be in kukulcan?

Thanks

--------------------------------------------------------------
 MERLIN 
Wong, Cheok Gid
c8944257@cc.newcastle.edu.au
Beren One-Hand
From: gyoung@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
Subject: confused
Date: 17 Nov 92 22:36:42 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

> 	
> 	2. There was a suggestion (from jhf@acsu.buffalo.edu, if memory serves)
> to incorporate Blind Creature into Holy Word.  Three questions come to mind:
> 
> 	- How should it be implemented? (Outward in 8 directions, area effect,
> or what?)
> 	- How difficult would it be to implement?
> 	- Should it be implemented?
> 
> -- 
> Matt Bernhardt
> University of Buffalo            If it is to be, it is up to me.
> mjb@acsu.buffalo.edu

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but sometimes it takes two
casts of the Blind Creature speel to confuse monsters, e.g a swordsman on the
deeper levels. Is the probability the Blind Creature spell works dependent on
anything?

Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
From: nwang@black.clarku.edu (The freak)
Subject: Re: where are cool Moria games?
Organization: Clark University (Worcester, MA)
Date: 22 Nov 92 19:28:56 GMT

jmward@redcloud (Joel M. Ward) writes:


>	Are there any cool multi-player games going on that i could Telnet
>over to?

Yes, they are called MUD, check out alt.mud or rec.games.mud.*


Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
From: aarons@yang.earlham.edu (Ace Pumpkin)
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
Subject: To B(alance) or not to B(alance): answers????
Date: 23 Nov 92 04:49:26 GMT
Organization: Long Live the Aaronstockracy!

> Hello, Everyone.
> 	All this talk of Moria has naturally made me want to get back home 
> where I can play it!
> 	Talk of beefing up certain classes makes me wonder why different 
> races and classes came into existence. I would think that, and if I 
> remember the rules to Moria 4.87 (or somewhere around there), they stated
> (inferentially or directly) that, the idea was to provide different skill 
> levels. So why bother helping classes out? Or, if I read you all 
> correctly, should we try to balance all the classes and limit the skill 
> differences to race (and sex, i.e., inventory limits)?
> 
> 					Yours sincerely,
> 					Aaron G. Stock
> 					runner of Mungo, the Ration King
> 					(always finds 'em)
> 					Half-Troll Warrior (20something Level)
> -- 
> Aaron G. Stock          |          Ace Pumpkin
> aarons@yang.earlham.edu | Peter Gabriel Fan and Abalone Player
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 419 Redman Avenue|"And in this moment, I need to be needed
> Haddonfield, NJ  | When my self-esteem is sinking, I like to be liked
> 08033-2611       | In this emptiness and fear, I want to be wanted
> Nov.27 to Dec.31 | 'Cos I love to be loved, I love to be loved" -Peter Gabriel

Anyone feel like answering this, please (in as pleading a voice as possible)?
I am going away soon, and I would like to hear your opinions. Thanks!
From: grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
Subject: Re: Bashing
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:55:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: boucher.GRABINER.92Nov19114945
Organization: /etc/organization
In-reply-to: nwang@black.clarku.edu's message of 18 Nov 92 16:58:56 GMT

In article <nwang.722105936@black.clarku.edu>, The freak writes:

> Run into 2 Ancient dragon in the same room today. I recall someone said
> he killed 4 AMHDs using bashing?  So I tried and got a message "the
> <whatever> ignores your bashing".  I can't find anything in the manuel
> that says this, so what's the deal?

The poster who killed 4 AMHD's by bashing was probably playing 4.87.
Changes in 5.x have made it impossible to bash huge creatures; that is
the reason for the message, "The Ancient Multi-Hued Dragon ignores your
bash!"

If you have a high dexterity, try bashing mid-level creatures; it is
more likely to work.


--
David Grabiner, grabiner@zariski.harvard.edu
"We are sorry, but the number you have dialed is imaginary."
"Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again."
Disclaimer: I speak for no one and no one speaks for me.
From: pl297722@academ01.mty.itesm.mx (RODRIGUEZ RIZO VICTOR MANUEL)
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
Subject: OOPS!! I forgot..
Summary: moria like games?
Date: 22 Nov 92 02:13:40 GMT

Sorry, I forgot I couple of things:

  I really like Moria, but I don't know of any other game of its type,
and woul surely like to know if there are any others. I'm sure there
must be more... (I would really like to get BOSS for the ibm pc)


  Also, my mage, name it Gandalf (sorry about the name :), is now at
2500 ft. and has not seen a single evil iggy. And I play with it in a 
unmodified copy of moria. I tried to get the Balrog, but when my four
potions of restore mana, the three potions of invulnerability, my mana,
and the only rune of protection I had went by, I decided to teleport 
away, because the B started draining my wands and I was almost killed.
(I can't believe how people say the B is "wimpy"). I'm going to give it
another try later...

  Is the Balrog susceptible to something? to a SE?, or do you just
take him down with spells?


                                              Adios!


(BTW, what does "keywords" stand for when posting?)
 




Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
From: petitc@jec303.its.rpi.edu (Christopher Jon Petit)
Subject: Re: ULTIMATE GHOST (Muhahaha)
Reply-To: petitc@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 03:32:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.233154.1816@jlc.mv.com>, scot@jlc.mv.com (Scot Salmon) writes:
|> In article <t4w1!q-@rpi.edu> petitc@rpi.edu writes:
|> >The Grim Reaper:
|> >It can...gaze to disenchant
|> 
|> Can any normal monster do this?  Like maybe the Balrog?  It seems like an
|> especially nasty attack, especially for a monster you can't beat in one or
|> two rounds. 

  Yeah.  My modified Balrog DOES do this attack.  Really annoys people who walk
up with a vorpal weapon...

|> I mean, you can back off from a disenchanter bat or mold or whatever if you
|> need to, but gazing...nasty.

  Thank you.  :&)  That's why I added the powerful items I did--added more
powerful monsters---I uped the power levels dramatically to make epic battles
real common (I tried my best to maintain game balance---see the Shaman's come
walking in...)

Crystal Golem (g):  Invisible, moves slowly, NO weaknesses, AC of 100...

Flying Sword (/):  Moves erratically and VERY quickly, can cast spells to
paralyze, drain mana, confuse, terrify, and attacks for 4d8 per round, has an
AC of 120, can open doors, kill weaker creatures

Hellhound (j):  Can reproduce, breathe fire, kill weaker creatures, has
life of about 10d15, maximized

Balrog---well, he always moves faster than you do--Haste and Rings of Speed
are useless against him---better get out those Rings of Resist Fire!

Ancient Dracolich (D):  Summon undead, breathe lightning, moves quickly, passes
through walls...

It's REAL tough, but fun.  :&)

-- 
"He shook with fear.  Shook like a nervous teenage boy on his first date."
Paradoxes---Roach Motels of the mind.  "Thoughts check in, but they don't
check out."  Personally, I'd like to know what the cover charge is at the
Roach Motel.
Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
From: c8841288@cc.newcastle.edu.au
Subject: Re: NEW MONSTER
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 07:20:01 GMT

Ok, heaps of ideas have been flooding in for new monster types.
Howz about this, for additions to Scorpions (becoming Scorpions & Spiders).
(Approx values only).

*** The Giant Red-Back Spider.
Level     : 1500 ft
Exp       : 400
Hit points: 20d8
AC        : 30
Attacks   : - Bite (3d4)
            - Crawl (3d4)
            - Sting to poison (3d3).

*** The Giant Funnel-Web Spider.
Level     : 1700 ft
Exp       : 1000
Hit points: 30d8
AC        : 40
Attacks   : - Bite (3d6)
            - Sting to poison (3d5)
            - Sting to reduce CON (3d5).
            - Crawl to paralize.

*** The Shelob.
Level     : 2000 ft
Exp       : 5000
Hit points: 20d40
AC        : 60
Attacks   : - Hit (3d7)
            - Bite (3d7)
            - Sting to poison (3d5)
            - Spit acid (3d6)
            - Cast spells 1 in 5 (paral, confuse, blind, teleport self & you)
            - Move x2 speed.

That sounds pretty good. Throw some ideas in ... I just got the figures off the
top of my head, so give some adjustments on what would be fair.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

		====== Honorius the Monster Master ======

Jason Quarry
C8841288 @ CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU
University of Newcastle, Australia

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
From: petitc@nuge111.its.rpi.edu (Christopher Jon Petit)
Subject: Re: Mages Priests -- the battle continues
Reply-To: petitc@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:53:36 GMT

Let's see if I can simplify this.

Each ability will be given a 'utility' rating from 1 to 9 (9=highest),  and
then I'll add them up.  It's gonna be pretty subjective, but it can help soldify
the arguements running around here:   (this utility is at appropiate levels)
(So, a power at high level is less powerful than the same at lower levels)

Mage				Priest

Magic Missile      (3)		Detect Evil         (6)
Detect Monsters    (7)		Bless               (4)
Cure Light Wounds  (3)		Cure Light Wounds   (3)
Light Area         (7)          Call Light          (7)
Detect Doors/Traps (8)		Detect Doors	    (4)
Stinking Cloud     (7)		Detect Traps        (4)
Phase Door         (5)          Slow Poison         (5)

Total              40		                    33

Confusion          (5)          Blind Creature      (5)
Lightning Bolt     (7)          Portal              (8)
Destroy Trap/Door  (4)          Cure Medium Wounds  (4)
Sleep I            (4)          Chant               (4)
Cure Poison        (6)          Sanctuary           (4)
Teleport Self      (7)          Remove Curse        (7)
Frost Bolt         (7)          Create Food         (7)
Stone-to-Mud       (5)          Resist Heat/Cold    (7)

Sub-total          45                               46
Total              85                               79

Create Food        (6)          Neutralize Poison   (5)
Recharge Item I    (8)          Orb of Draining     (9)
Sleep II           (7)          Cure Serious Wounds (5)
Polymorph Other    (7)          Sense Invisible     (9)
Idenfity           (9)          Protection from Evil(8)
Sleep III          (8)          Cure Critical Wounds(6)
Fire Bolt          (7)          Sense Surroundings  (6)
---------          (0)          Turn Undead         (3)

Sub-total          51                               61
Total             136                              150

Frost Ball         (7)          Prayer              (5)
Recharge Item II   (9)          Dispel Undead       (6)
Haste Self         (9)          Heal                (8)
Fire Ball          (8)          Dispel Evil         (6)
Word of Destruction(8)          Glyph of Warding    (8)
Genocide           (8)          Holy Word           (4)

Sub-total          49                               41
Total             185                              191


   So, what all this says is that:

(1) At low levels, Mages are better because they have more useful spells.
(2) At mid levels, Mages are on equal footing with Priests
(3) At high levels, Priests have a slight edge over Mages.

  Does that seem about right?

-- 
 *HUGS*, a @>---'--,----, and a :&) to whoever needs them.
"Whoever said that life was fair never read the rules, and found out that
there were none."
"Mysteries are for detectives; confusion is what the rest of us get."



Newsgroups: rec.games.moria
From: mbfeld@unix.amherst.edu (A waste of bandwidth)
Subject: More whining about missiles
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:18:02 GMT


One last point about missiles with special powers..enchanting them and giving
them egos like melle weapons wouldn't be enough.  Think of it this way.
You can find a Wand of Fire Balls that can shoot a dozen 70 point fire balls,
doing double damage to white dragons and the like.  A Flame Arrow, if it
were to be of high value, would have to be about 30d4 so, when launched
from a x3 bow, does a base average damage of about 225.  The wand you find has
12 uses, but the arrow only 1 if it hits or is lost.

Also, imagine this fun scenario: You have beaten the Balrog back...you aim
your only Arrow of Slaying or whatever...it MISSES and is laying there on the
ground!  Who will get to it first? :-)

Marlon