HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: schlicke@math.TU-Berlin.DE (Wolfram Schlickenrieder)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Galileo Galileo's "OK, OK, I AM WRONG"... (?!?)
Date: 8 Jan 93 12:21:56
Organization: FB3, TU-Berlin, Germany.
Distribution: soc
NNTP-Posting-Host: jerichow.math.tu-berlin.de


	
	Hi Folks...

	Since Galilei was "forgiven" by John-Paul-#2 just recently I
	am looking for the words he had to say in front of the
	inquisition tribunal (is that an english word?) in order to
	avoid being tormented for the rest of his life; something that
	basically meant "Ok, Ok, I was wrong; Yes, the Earth *is* the
	center of the universe and everything; No, I will not publish
	any of my material any more; Thank you, Sir.".

	I'm especially interested in finding the *latin* "original"
	text -- is that exists at all...

	Any kind of help with this is greatly apprechiated!!!

	...Wolfram

-- fnord.

Newsgroups: soc.history
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: Soviet space disaster?
Date: 5 Jan 93 20:10:51 GMT
Organization: Summit NJ

>I thought that Yuri Gagarin was killed in a later space mission when his  
>chute didn't deploy and he landed harder than anticipated.  Or did this  
>fate befall some other Soviet cosmonaut?

As others have already mentioned Yuri Gagarin was not killed in a
spaceship accident.

I remember two Soviet space flights that ended in death.  One was a bad
parachute deployment that killed the solo astronaut, and the second was
an apparent opening of the door of a 3 man spaceship when the retro-rockets
were fired (and the cosmonauts weren't wearing space suits).  

Because of this second accident, NASA made it a rule that spacesuits had
to be worn during all rocket firings.
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.history,alt.war.civil.usa
From: charbonn@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (gary charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Use of Pre-Civil War Railroads in Warfare
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:19:36 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.190734.6537@leland.Stanford.EDU> whale@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen Schmidt) writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.171601.2724@leland.Stanford.EDU> disraeli@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jamie Lara Bronstein) writes:
>>If the nearest railhead to the Crimea was 400 miles away, how was it that
>>the front was able to send news to England quickly via telegraph?
>>I was under the impression that telegraph lines were usually strung
>>along the railroad tracks, so that stations could communicate
>>with each other.
>>
>Usually, but this was done for convenience rather than necessity. Both the
>railroad and the telegraph line had to be guarded against raids and guerrila
>activity, and both had to run between the army and its rear area bases. If
>they were in the same place, the same unit could guard both of them. There
>was no technological reason why they had to be together, that I am aware
>of.

In a civilian context, railroads and telegraph lines enjoyed a symbiotic
relationship.  The railroads used the telegraph for dispatching.  The
rail line provided ready access to the telegraph line for maintenance.

- Gary Charbonneau
  charbonn@silver.indiana.edu






Newsgroups: soc.history,alt.war.civil.usa
From: visser@convex.com (Lance Visser)
Subject: Re: Use of Pre-Civil War Railroads in Warfare
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:30:06 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1993Jan11.171601.2724@leland.Stanford.EDU> disraeli@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jamie Lara Bronstein) writes:

+>If the nearest railhead to the Crimea was 400 miles away, how was it that
+>the front was able to send news to England quickly via telegraph?
+>I was under the impression that telegraph lines were usually strung
+>along the railroad tracks, so that stations could communicate
+>with each other.

	There is no reason that Telegraph lines have to built at the
same time as railroads though.  Obviously the English could not have
had direct telegraph contact from the Crimea.  Its possible that there
was a telegraph link to somewhere at Constantinople (or Istambul if you
perfer).
	But at the same time, how "quickly" is quickly with regard to
news reaching England.  News might have been transported back to france
or Italy by ship and then telegraphed back to England.



Newsgroups: soc.history,alt.war.civil.usa
From: charbonn@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (gary charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Use of Pre-Civil War Railroads in Warfare
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:50:42 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.171601.2724@leland.Stanford.EDU> disraeli@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jamie Lara Bronstein) writes:
>If the nearest railhead to the Crimea was 400 miles away, how was it that
>the front was able to send news to England quickly via telegraph?
>I was under the impression that telegraph lines were usually strung
>along the railroad tracks, so that stations could communicate
>with each other.
>
>Jamie Bronstein
>History Department
>Stanford University
>disraeli@leland.stanford.edu

I was speaking, of course, about the nearest RUSSIAN railhead.  It is my
understanding that the lack of rail communication to the Crimea was a
severe impediment to the Russian war effort.

I am ignorant as to telegraphic communication to and from the Crimea.
I think I am safe in saying that the allies could not have had a direct link.
I do not know if the Russians had strung wire down there....

- Gary Charbonneau
  charbonn@silver.indiana.edu

Xref: sparky soc.history:10642 alt.war.civil.usa:1805
From: velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde)
Newsgroups: soc.history,alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Re: Use of Pre-Civil War Railroads in Warfare
Date: 11 Jan 1993 13:42:10 -0500
Organization: Homewood Academic Computing, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu


In article <1993Jan11.131944.13168@panix.com> spencer@panix.com (David Spencer) writes:
>
>The Paris Revolution of 1834, the Revolution of 1848 and the periodic
           ^^^^^^^^^^
Surely Revolution is a strong word: riot would be more accurate.
I wonder what railroad lines existed in 1834.

>Paris insurrections of the 19th century were put down with troops
>brought by rail from the countryside to the cities. This had an
>important effect on European thinking about the military use of
>railroads.





-- 

	Francois Velde

Newsgroups: soc.history
From: eng10511@nusunix1.nus.sg (RAM VIKASH TIWARY)
Subject: Re: Johns through History
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 11:28:50 GMT

Here are two famous Johns

John Dalton - 19th century English chemist

John Lennon - no intro needed

By the way, what's the list for anyway. 
Newsgroups: soc.history,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic
From: kelley@phecda (Sean Kelley)
Subject: Re: Britain/Ireland 400-1100
Organization: Lockheed Sanders, Inc., Nashua, NH
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 17:33:47 GMT

I might also suggest;

The History of the Irish Race
by Seamus MacManus

Available at Barnes&Noble



Sean



--
Sean Kelley            INTERNET: kelley@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com

Avionics Division,     
Lockheed-Sanders, Inc.
Nashua, NH USA
From: traynor@fnalo.fnal.gov
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Looking for info on Roman interest in Ireland
Date: 12 Jan 93 22:29:13 -0600
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: fnalo.fnal.gov

Hi--

Anyone have any information on Roman expeditions to Ireland?

Please e-mail replies directly.  Thanks.

				-Mike

NNN  NN DDDD    Mike Traynor (ND '86)(Rice '93?) |||     Amiga 500 owner   ///
 N N N   D  D   Fermilab PO Box 500 MS 221 E683  |||     w/MMR 13 Meg RAM ///
 N  NN   D  D   Batavia IL, 60510   USA         //|\\    190 Meg HD   \\\/// 
NN   NN DDDD    (708) 879-6095 [ans. mach.]    /// \\\   14.4Kbps modem\XX/

Newsgroups: soc.history,sci.space,soc.culture.soviet
From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman)
Subject: Re: Soviet space disaster?
Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Destructive Testing Systems
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:21:00 GMT

In article <4121@iris.mincom.oz.au> marks@iris.mincom.oz.au (Mark Stavar) writes:
>I recall reading that at some point earlyish in the Russian space
>programme that there was a retro mis-fire on one of their missions.
>This lead to the unfortunate situation of the space craft in question
>flying off directly into the sun.  The story mentioned something about
>the wife of the cosmonaut in question being in radio contact with him
>up to the very end.
>
>I have no hard material evidence with which to back up this story - it
>may be plain wrong.

Well the part about flying off directly into the sun is definitely
hogwash. That requires something like 30 km/s delta vee which is
orders of magnitude more than any retro on a Soyuz can generate,
even if it were operating properly.

Gary

-- 
Gary Coffman KE4ZV          |    You make it,     | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary
Destructive Testing Systems |    we break it.     | uunet!rsiatl!ke4zv!gary
534 Shannon Way             |    Guaranteed!      | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary      
Lawrenceville, GA 30244     |                     | emory!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu
Date: Tuesday, 12 Jan 1993 17:14:36 EST
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: so

were free blacks in the south (before the civil war) allowed to have slaves?

if so, did any?

if so, how common was this practice?

bob vesterman.

Xref: sparky soc.history:10608 soc.culture.british:18354 soc.culture.celtic:8616
From: newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton)
Newsgroups: soc.history,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Britain/Ireland 400-1100
Date: 8 Jan 93 10:05:47 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

ccsaw@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Weeks) writes:

>Scottish history is much more difficult and I believe very little is known from
>Scotland prior to the 11th Century, apart from King lists and occasional 
>references in histories of England.

English crap.  There were annals kept in Iona, one of the primary centres
of learning in Western Europe, during several centuries, as well as cross
references from annals kept in Ireland.  During these times Ireland and
Scotland were very closely associated.

The book "Warlords and Holy Men: Scotland 50 AD to 1000" by Smyth is
definitely worth looking at, a standard text on the subject.

Also, "Invaders of Scotland", by Anna Ritchie, published by Her Majesty's
Stationary Office, is a nice glossy illustrated guide to the period in`
archaeological remains.  Anna Ritchie also wrote a book called "Picts"
specifically on the Picts of Scotland, also published by HMSO in 1990.

There are many other references I could recommend if you were more specific
about what you wanted to learn.

Saor Alba!
mn
From: jmcd@cea.berkeley.edu (John McDonald)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Johns through History
Keywords: John, Jon, Johnny, Jonathan
Date: 11 Jan 93 20:06:18 GMT
Organization: Center for EUV Astrophysics

Hi Everybody,
	There was John the Baptist
        and John Adams
        and Johnny Rotten

There were a lot of people named John throughout
history.  Please send me your own list of prominent
Johns throughout history, i am interested in compiling
such a master list.

John McDonald

begin 664 signature.uu
M:F]H;E\M7U\M7U\M7U\M7U\M7U\M7U\M7U\M7U\M7U\M7VUC9&]N86QD"@E!
M<G1I<W1S(%!R;W9O:V4@06QI96YS"E]?+5]?+5]?+5]?+5]?+5]?+5]?+5]?
M+5]?+5]?+5]?+5]?+5]?+5]?+0IC96YT97(@(" @("!F;W(@(" @("!E=78@
2(" @("!A<W1R;W!H>7-I8W,*
Newsgroups: soc.history,alt.war.civil.usa
From: disraeli@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jamie Lara Bronstein)
Subject: Re: Use of Pre-Civil War Railroads in Warfare
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 17:16:01 GMT

If the nearest railhead to the Crimea was 400 miles away, how was it that
the front was able to send news to England quickly via telegraph?
I was under the impression that telegraph lines were usually strung
along the railroad tracks, so that stations could communicate
with each other.

Jamie Bronstein
History Department
Stanford University
disraeli@leland.stanford.edu


Newsgroups: soc.history,alt.war.civil.usa
From: jim@specialix.com (Jim Maurer)
Subject: Re: Use of Pre-Civil War Railroads in Warfare
Organization: Specialix Inc.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 23:08:12 GMT

disraeli@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jamie Lara Bronstein) writes:

>If the nearest railhead to the Crimea was 400 miles away, how was it that
>the front was able to send news to England quickly via telegraph?
>I was under the impression that telegraph lines were usually strung
>along the railroad tracks, so that stations could communicate
>with each other.

Not always.  In many areas there was already a telegraph line in
place before the railroad was built.  Wasn't the Western Union
transcontinental telegraph line built before the transcontinental
railroad?  Once a railroad was built into to a new area you
automatically did have a telegraph line since the railroad needed
one for dispatching.
From: tomd@Warren.MENTORG.COM (Tom David)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: The dead sea scrolls deception.
Date: 12 Jan 1993 10:39:29 -0500
Organization: Mentor Graphics Corp. -- IC Group
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: galapagos.warren.mentorg.com

Hi folks,

	I read a very interesting book (I'd recommend it to anyone
	interested in the historical correctness of the bible)
	over the weekend...The title of the book was " The dead sea scrolls 
	deception " By Michael Baigent and Richard Leigh...Does anyone 
	know who these authors are (i.e. how credible are they ?)....they 
	kept quoting a professor by the name of Richard Eisenmann from 
	the University of California (in LA I think ??)...anyone know how 
	well known these folks are in the field ?

						Regards,
						Tom.

------
E-mail
tomd@warren.mentorg.com
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
/****** Witty, politically correct statement, under construction **********/
// tomd@warren.mentorg.com // ..!uunet!sdl.scs.com!tomd
Xref: sparky soc.history:10544 sci.space:18724 soc.culture.soviet:11815
From: marks@iris.mincom.oz.au (Mark Stavar)
Newsgroups: soc.history,sci.space,soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Soviet space disaster?
Date: 5 Jan 93 02:27:43 GMT
Followup-To: soc.history,sci.space,soc.culture.soviet
Organization: Mincom, Brisbane, Australia
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Charles Packer (packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov) wrote:
: Somebody told me recently that they had read that the
: former Soviet Union had suffered a space disaster in which
: they had to leave one of their cosmonauts in orbit to die
: because they couldn't rescue him. My informant said that
: his information came from reading newspaper accounts of
: formerly secret material that was made public in the last
: couple of years during the unravelling of the Soviet system
: and the subsequent increase in openness of discussion and 
: publication in Russia.

--

I recall reading that at some point earlyish in the Russian space
programme that there was a retro mis-fire on one of their missions.
This lead to the unfortunate situation of the space craft in question
flying off directly into the sun.  The story mentioned something about
the wife of the cosmonaut in question being in radio contact with him
up to the very end.

I have no hard material evidence with which to back up this story - it
may be plain wrong.

marks

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Stavar
Mincom Pty Ltd
Juliette St
Brisbane Q Aust

Email:	marks@iris.mincom.oz.au

Ph: +61 7 364 9999

#include	<std/disclaimer.h>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: fxars@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (Allen R Sparks)
Subject: Re: Johns through History
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
	<1993Jan12.181616.27386@digi.lonestar.org>
	<1ivhb9INNptp@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 02:54:08 GMT

In article <1ivhb9INNptp@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde) writes:
> Joseph is an entirely different name, so is Jacques. Jacques comes from
> Yakob (e.g. the son of Isaac), via Latin Jacobaeus; compare the German
> Jakob, Italian Giacomo, Spanish Jaime. (note that there is a trace of 
> the Jacob origin in the phrase Santiago=Saint James the Apostle, patron saint
> of Spain). 

I aplogize.  This is getting interesting after all. === Al
Newsgroups: soc.history,alt.war.civil.usa
From: charbonn@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (gary charbonneau)
Subject: Re: Use of Pre-Civil War Railroads in Warfare
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 13:16:37 GMT

In article <1iof9t$qsp@agate.berkeley.edu> turrell@violet.berkeley.edu (David Turrell) writes:
>In article <1993Jan4.221014.12326@capitol.com>,
>townsend@capitol.com (Dave Townsend) writes:
>
>>	I'm doing a project on the American Civil War battle First Manassas.
>>	In researching the history, I keep running across weaselly adjectives
>>	when it comes to describing Johnston's use of railroads.  Things
>>	like:
>>
>>	"Instead, it would require  - for the first time in an American war -
>>	 the use of technology, namely the Manassas Gap railroad."
>>			(Hennessy, The First Battle of Manassas, p. 2)
>>
>>	OK, who first (period!) used railroads in war?  Napoleon III?
>>	Any references appreciated.
>
>There could hardly have been large scale use of railroads in warfare
>before the Civil War. The first passenger line opened in 1818, in England,
>so that leaves out anything to do with the first Napoleon. The Crimea
>would hardly have had extensive rail service in the 1850's.

And in fact the railhead nearest the Crimea was, if I recall correctly,
some 400 miles away.

- Gary Charbonneau
  charbonn@silver.indiana.edu









Newsgroups: soc.history,sci.cognitive,sci.archaeology,sci.anthropology
From: Suzanne-lucia.Demitrio@launchpad.unc.edu (Suzanne-lucia Demitrio)
Subject: Re: Do Cultures Exhibit a Collective Personality That Changes With Time?
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 06:58:33 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.221000.22039@midway.uchicago.edu> 
ogil@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

>Suzanne-lucia.Demitrio@launchpad.unc.edu (Suzanne-lucia Demitrio) writes:
>
>>Robert Danton takes up this idea interestingly -- albeit briefly -- in the
>>first chapter of *The Great Cat Massacre* (early modern French social
>>history).  He compares versions of the same fairytales as collected in
>>different cultures, and posits a notion of cultural style.
>
>The French historians and folklorists I've talked to criticize Darnton
>for taking an essentialist position, refusing to recognize the great
>number of versions of _any_ fairy-story in a given culture (for a
>wonderful example, read the collection of _Italian Folktales_ by Italo
>Calvino and note how often similar elements crop up in otherwise
>different stories). Darnton, as I recall, takes only a few stories and
>compares only one version of each from each "culture."

I took it as a bemused essay -- a broad suggestion, rather than an attempt
to prove his theory everywhere.  Though he does discuss Red Riding Hood
in light of all several-hundred-odd extant early modern French
versions.  Has he done more on the subject elsewhere?

>Interestingly, a friend here in the history
>department told me that someone had pursued the Cat Massacre story a
>bit further in the archives and found that the journeymen who
>slaughtered their master's wife's cat were eventually brought to
>justice and punished; their triumph may have been sweet, but it was
>short. If anyone is interested, I can ask my friend for references.

Yes, please!


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Xref: sparky soc.history:10625 alt.war.civil.usa:1779
From: turrell@violet.berkeley.edu (David Turrell)
Newsgroups: soc.history,alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: Re: Use of Pre-Civil War Railroads in Warfare
Date: 10 Jan 1993 06:21:49 GMT
Organization: Cobol Pacific University
NNTP-Posting-Host: violet.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan4.221014.12326@capitol.com>,
townsend@capitol.com (Dave Townsend) writes:

>	I'm doing a project on the American Civil War battle First Manassas.
>	In researching the history, I keep running across weaselly adjectives
>	when it comes to describing Johnston's use of railroads.  Things
>	like:
>
>	"Instead, it would require  - for the first time in an American war -
>	 the use of technology, namely the Manassas Gap railroad."
>			(Hennessy, The First Battle of Manassas, p. 2)
>
>	OK, who first (period!) used railroads in war?  Napoleon III?
>	Any references appreciated.

There could hardly have been large scale use of railroads in warfare
before the Civil War. The first passenger line opened in 1818, in England,
so that leaves out anything to do with the first Napoleon. The Crimea
would hardly have had extensive rail service in the 1850's.

I can't think of books that would tell absolutely when the first railroad
use in war was, although I can think of some (many) that tell of Civil
War usage, Haupt's Reminiscences in particular.

I am x-posting to alt.war.civil.usa.

-David
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: olaf@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: Re: BOSTON, 1770's, James Otis, & the revolution
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 14:38:59 GMT

In article <1993Jan04.215655.7071@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>, kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay) writes:
> I would like to locate some comprehensive material relating to
> pre-revolutionary Boston, and a gentleman named James Otis.
> 
> It is my understanding that Mr. Otis published material which neither his
> family nor the King appreciated, and I would like to learn more about him,
> and similar characters, who were active in opposing British rule during the
> pre-revolutionary period.
> 
> I'd appreciate pointers to textbooks or historical works which might deal
> with the period, and Boston in particular.
> 
> -- 
> The Old Frog's Almanac - Public Access UseNet for Central Vancouver Island
>      (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) SCO XENIX 2.3.2 GT 
>  Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. Just south of Tupperware Central...  
>                  Information is power - get connected

Try Bernard Bailyn's "The Ideological Origins of the American Revolution"
(Harvard University Press 1967); it should be available at most 
undergraduate libraries (certainly U of Victoria will have it). You might
also try looking for Lawrence Henry Gipson's "The British Empire before
the American Revolution, vol. XIV: A Bibliographical Guide to the History
of the British Empire 1748-1776." The beauty of this guide is that it's
indexed. Gipson points to sources that reprint some of Otis' writings.
Richard Morris also edited a bibliography: "Era of the American Revolution:
A Bibliography" (American Bibliographical Center--Clio Press, 1975) which
is indexed as well; Boston receives several entry mentions. And, of course,
there are undoubtedly more recent sources.

Olaf Janzen
Corner Brook, Newfoundland

p