From: goykhman@apollo.hp.com (Red Herring)
Subject: Re: WAR IN BOSNIA!!!!
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:01:50 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1993Jan6.024947.5180@vlsi.polymtl.ca> d40937@aiken (Jean Yves Desbiens) writes:
>Red Herring (goykhman@apollo.hp.com) wrote:
>: > ck442@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Floyd Low) writes:
>: >
>:     The Serbs proposed evacuating Saraevo's civilian population, 
>:     but the Bosnian "goverment" would not let the evacuation take 
>:     place, for they hold the women and children of Saraevo hostages
>:     and use them as human shields, as well as for target practice, 
>:     preferrably in front TV cameras (more than once the "Bosnian" 
>:     goverment was caught shelling their own civilians for propaganda 
>:     purposes).
>

>everybody knows they started the war, they took almost everything the 
>Moslem bosnians held dear (even their dignity in the camps) and now you
>are expecting that they permit the evacuation of Sarajevo ...

    Yes, I do.  Using civilians as human shields is evil.  Using
    one's own family for that purpose is beyond my comprehension.

>serbs want). The bosnians may not be saints but they do have a right
>to some land to live on

    They do, and, as far as I know, nobody denies them that right.
    The problem is that the Bosnian Muslims, who are not even
    a majority in B-H (43% before the war started), aspire to be
    the rulers of B-H.  To be sure, arrangements like this exist
    elswehere: take Syria and Iraq where Alawites and Sunni Muslims
    respectively rule the country.  On the other hand, look
    how brutal those regimes have to be just to remain in power.
    Do we need another one in the heart of Europe?

>
>: >so in short I say fear not, G Bush and Coy have the means to send the
>: >serbs packing in short order. do we want to do that though?
>: 
>:     That what the Nazi's thought (they too had a Croatian-Bosnian 
>:     fascist state on their side), and the Serbs gave them some
>:     pretty hard time.
>
>Your knowledge of the current state of affairs is pathetic, comparing
>the bosnians to fascists doesn`t say much for the accuracy of your facts.

    Actually, I was referring to Croatia (can't talk about Bosnia's policies
    since it is not even a state yet).  The Boston Globe recently ran an 
    article on the situation of mixed families in xYugoslavia. Here's just 
    a couple of examples of people denied Croatian citizenship:

        a Serbian woman, born in Croatia, married to a Croatian,
        three children.

        a Serbian man (married to a Croatian) who fought for the
        independence of Croatia against the Yogoslavian army.
        The poor fellow can not even return to Serbia for there
        he is considered a traitor.

    Another word, Croatian citizenship is for Croatians only,
    quite similar to what Adolf Hitler advocated in Mein Kampf:

	"The folkish state divides its inhabitants into three classes: 
    citizens, subjects, and foreigners.
    
    On principle only the status of subject is acquired by birth.
    The status of subject as such does not confer the right to hold
    public office, nor to carry on political activity in the sense
    of active or passive participation in elections. As a matter of
    principle, the race and nationality of every subject must be 
    determined.  The subject is free at any time to renounce his status
    of subject and become a citizen in the country whose nationality
    corresponds to his own.  The foreigner is distinguished from
    the subject only by the fact that he is a subject of a foreign
    state".


>I don`t know why you think the serbs are such boyscouts when every evidence
>points to the contrary, beating up on a badly armed group of people and
>"cleaning" their villages by expulsing unarmed people surely doesn't
>make them supporters of human rights. ...

    Speaking of "ethnic cleansing", there is more than a million 
    refugees in Serbia too...

    The bottom line that there is no good guys/bad guys in B-H,
    just like there is none in Lebanon.  That said, none of the
    warring factions in Lebanon wants to secede, while two out
    of three in B-H do, and that opens the door to a political
    solution in the latter.

    I believe that any permanent solution to Bosnia's problems
    will have to involve carving up the country into three
    (or more) separate states, preferrably in proportion
    to the pre-war population figures, or the fighting will
    go on until one or two of the participants will get wiped 
    out completely.








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