HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Colorado tactics
Date: 5 Nov 92 22:07:54 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Nov4.234140.14497@colorado.edu>, devin@frodo.Colorado.EDU (Sonja Orlavski) writes:
> Rod Williams (rjwill6@PacBell.COM) wrote:
> : 
> : Seems to me that all LGB employers in Colorado should
> : dismiss their heterosexual employees forthwith.
> 
> Great idea...one problem.  Amendment #2 specifically singles out homosexuals
> and bisexuals.  Heterosexuals can still claim discrimination on the basis
> of sexual orientation.
> 
> Devin Hooker (RP90)  (SotM 7/91)  DoD #0034  devin@boulder.colorado.edu  ------

So?  Is there a law against discrimination against heterosexuals?
No.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
The Physician Assisted Death Initiative failed.  Term limits for Congressmen
passed.  If only we could have combined the two... two terms, and a doctor
does lethal injection...
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Aspects of Boycott
Date: 13 Nov 92 15:45:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov13.154520.10627
Organization: insert anything here

mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>> An Aspen ski week brings income to businesses elsewhere in
>> the state.  The airlines, other transport vendors, phone
>> companies, clothing and food providers, hoteliers not
>> operating only in Aspen, gas and oil companies, car rental
>> firms, ski equipment concerns, etc, all participate in what
>> is after all significant amounts of related business.

>> It seems to me an economic boycott needs not to overlook
>> these not-trivial sources of income.  One way of putting
>> this is to say that Aspen itself, good though it may be, is
>> not the only factor in an Aspen LGB ski week.  Now I am not
>> arguing here against the event itself, but I think we need
>> to consider such issues as those I mention, as well as
>> (probably) others.

>  Perhaps a compromise could be forged here in the specific 
>case of Aspen. One of the main reasons for an economic boycott
>is to put the pinch on the "bad" folks as well as making a visible
>point (probably *the* biggest reason). The drawback is that
>the "good" folks are in the crossfire and them getting hit
>is a double insult (they didn't want CO2, but their being 
>screwed). 
>  Since Aspen seems to definately be part of the "good" side
>and they sponsor Gay Ski Week, perhaps they, as a gesture,
>could be convinced to donate a percentage of the gate to
>a fund for overturning CO2, and the (hopeful) future repeal
>effort. 

	Nice thought, but if they are already feeling the effects
of a boycott they may not be able to do that.

	I think what Jess was getting at was the second-order problem
of still inadvertantly supporting pro-2 factions while trying to be
supportive of anti-2 businesses and communities...

	At this point I think it is the onus of those groups to
get their heads together and provide a whole"package" that would
describe as pro-GBLO* a list of businesses as possible.  That would
include but not be limited to - the ariline to fly on, the
shuttle service to use from the airport to lodging, the loding, the
places to eat, the places to shop, etc, etc, etc.  Certainly the people
putting together vacation packages could get the word out.

	In reality though - shouldn't this be going on anyway?
I mean we're fixated on CO right now all wanting to make sure our
$$$ gets into the "right hands", but seriously, we should
be doing this everywhere every day, both in our own towns and far away.

BBC
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: ""The Hidden Sailor""
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:15:25 GMT
Organization: NIST


In a previous article, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) wrote:
> 
>In article <38291@hoptoad.uucp> laura@hoptoad.UUCP (Laura
>Creighton) writes:
> 
>>(Sim Anderson -- are you there!  Inquring minds *REALLY WANT
>>TO KNOW!*)
> 
>Especially those of us you've married to him.  It's certainly
>not that I wouldn't, you understand, though his boyfriend
>might object, and possibly Mr. Aberson himself might.

He couldn't possibly object, Mr. Andraberson.  The more the merrier,
you know.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: MOTSS pix
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 02:17:03 GMT

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>That was David Kerlick, not Gerry Swetsky.

>(I know, all us hairy guys look alike...)

Lie. You're all yummy in your *own* *special* *way*.

>>That wasn't *that* risque', was it?

>Well, not until you wriggled free.

I was hoping noone had noticed that... I thought extreme cold
would prevent such reactions from happening. *blush* But then,
the way I turned away from the group *quickly* and sat *right*
*back* *down* in the water would have made it more obvious; G-
forces and all...

John, enemy of physics

--
John Dorrance        * Sexyfunky Motherfuckerdiva *   thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

		I bet if you threw that ass into the air
			It'd turn into sunshine!
Xref: sparky soc.motss:46524 soc.bi:14758
From: corwin+@CMU.EDU (Scott Safier)
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Originator: scotts@MORPHEUS.CIMDS.RI.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
	<1dn3qsINNj0v@mizar.usc.edu>
	<CORWIN+.92Nov10081709@MORPHEUS.CIMDS.RI.CMU.EDU>
	<1dp84bINN550@mizar.usc.edu> <10NOV92.18411115@enh.nist.gov>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:14:06 GMT


   Scott, did the CMU Theatre Department ever do any gay theatre?

This is an interesting question.  A couple summers ago, two plays with
gay characters and gay themes were performed on campus (4 Men From
Annapolis, a play by a gay Masters student, and The Haircut).  A
representative from cmuOUT visited the box office and asked if any
"gay plays" were being performed.  They answered "no."  The person
mentioned the two plays above, and the person said that those plays
were indeed being performed.  The cmuOUT person said that those were
"gay plays" and a long discussion between the two occurred over what
was and was not a gay play.  The person who runs the box office is an
instructor in the department (I think).

The masters student I mention above once told me the environment in
the Drama department at CMU is that it is OK to be gay, just as long
as no one finds out about it.

Scott Safier                                   corwin+@cmu.edu
Robotics Institute, Carnegie Mellon University
        
member, T.S.A.K.C.  B0/1 f+ w- g k+ s- m(+) e++

"We don't necessarily discriminate.  We simply exclude certain types of
people."
   Lt. Col. Gerald Wellman, an ROTC instructor at the MIT,
   on the military's ban on gays
   Newsweek, May 25
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: paul@psych.toronto.edu (Paul Hastings)
Subject: Re: ***Accessories!!!***
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:22:58 GMT

In article <thaaang.721396482@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>What's your favorite kind? Handbags? Belts? Shoes? Watches? Jewelry?
>Any favorite pieces?
>
>(motss-relevance: puh-LEASE!!!)
>
Jewelry, fer shur.  I hated the earring I got a year ago, so I'm no
longer pierced, but on any given day I'll be wearing a scarab wrist-
band, &/or freedom beads (so much more 'earthy' than rings), &/or
the silver eagle talon holding the polished crystal.  Watches fall
into jewelry as well.  I wear 'em 'cause I love the look, especially
leather bands, but prefer not knowing what time it is.  Schedules 
stink.  Had a great silver & red glass clasp on my Hallowe'en costume,
but it just doesn't go with anything else I own.  Doncha HATE that?
-paul
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Hastings    paul@psych.utoronto.ca          545 Dovercourt Road
University of Toronto      416-978-3990          Toronto, Ont.  M6H 2W5
M. Mark: I can teach you to dance with no intoxication.  (yeah, right!)   
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: paul@psych.toronto.edu (Paul Hastings)
Subject: Re: Genetic oversimplification of homosexuality.
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 00:17:51 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.000913.977@psych.toronto.edu> paul@psych.toronto.edu (Paul Hastings) writes:

>Babbling's importance is shown by the main cause of hearing kids of hearing-
>impaired parents (at one time) developing speech problems (was) is that 
>the folks (did) do not babble with the kids, and eventually the kids also
>stop babbling (past tense, as now hearing-impaired parents are encouraged
>to make the babbling noises when they see their kids mouthing off, and
>speech problems for the developing toddlers are decreasing). 

Geez!  Where the hell was my parsing unit when I typed that?!?

What I was trying to say was... Ah, whatever, if you're smart enough to
find the BRS, you're bright enough to figure it out.

-paul again

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Hastings    paul@psych.utoronto.ca          545 Dovercourt Road
University of Toronto      416-978-3990          Toronto, Ont.  M6H 2W5
M. Mark: I can teach you to dance with no intoxication.  (yeah, right!)   
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Don't Stop!  (played by Clinton/Gore after victory speech)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 13:10:58 GMT


In article <1992Nov7.111605.16145@news.ysu.edu>
ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller) writes:

>In a previous article, Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton
>Madison) says:

>That gentleman's name is Vladimere Posner, a Russian
>Journalist.  (Yes, he SOUNDS American, but he is Russian!!
>(imagine that!!)

Vladimir (if you wanna be hot shit, put the stress on the
second syllable: [vla-dee'-mir]) Posner speaks perfect,
unaccented, idiomatic American English.  I think that comes
to pass because he lived here a long time, including when he
was young.

>>Phil Donahue speculated that George Bush didn't even know what
>>Fleetwood Mac *was*.  "A new GM truck?"   ;-{)##]

The Cadillac of trucks, naturally.

>Reminds me of the PhotoOp he had in the supermarket and how amazed he was
>at the UPC scanner...They've been out for what, 15 years?

>No, President Bush isn't out of touch....

Now go easy on poor old George.  He probably hasn't been
*in* a supermarket in 15 years; after all he's got "the
little woman" to handle the food shopping.  I sort of liked
it the day after the election, when George said he's going
to get big in the grandfathering business.  I'm sure he's
not that awful a guy, on that level, though I'm delighted he
isn't going to be our President much longer.

You know, to get real about Presidents of the USA, I really
cannot imagine a more killing job.  I think I need a nap
just from thinking about it, and it's only 7:10 a.m.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
<>  <>  <> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <>  <>  <>
Xref: sparky soc.motss:47150 soc.bi:15000
From: snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: Early conclusions from Oregon (Was: Re: What to do about Colorado)
Date: 12 Nov 92 10:07:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Nov12.100713.1161
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR

In article <BxCu3y.17v@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:
>miket@hermes.tcs.com (Michael Turner nmscore Assoc.) writes:
>

>
>Oregon is a lily-white state with a ugly past of racism and intolerance.
>The KKK flourished here, and for many years the state forbade the
>in-migration of blacks by statute.  Portlanders in particular tend to
>be in denial about this; they want to see this as a tolerant state,

Portland itself is a very tolerant city.  I think that most of the
people living here are people who left the smaller areas of Oregon
to live in a much more tolerant place.  This also applies to to 
our sister states.  We have a huge contengency from Idaho, Montana and Utah!
People leaving and escaping from some pretty scary areas in the West.
Portland for years has had the upper hand as far as running this 
State, politically and economically.  So what the rest of the U.S. sees
coming out of Oregon is Portland.  The great thing is that we are 
growing very rapidly here in the metro area.  The Portland area
will have over 500,000 new residence by the year 2010.  So the political
wheels will be driven more and more by Portland.  

Also, image is always myth.  I mean look at the great N.E.  with South
Boston, and Howard Street in NYC.  We have a huge problem in this
country with bigots and we need to deal with them.  

 so
>by God that's what they're going to see.  That's where the noisy campaign
>was vital: it forced these people to take a good hard look at the reality
>of bigotry and hate that's endemic in this state.  Once we made it visible
>to them, they turned out to vote it down.

My contention is that we had the tri county area pretty well sewn up.  We
one on measure 9 because of the Eastern and Southern Counties.  If 
the Eastern and Southern Counties would have voted in favor or 9 
in the 70-80% area like they voted in Measure 8, we would have lost
this battle.  

>
>-- 
>Brent Capps                          | 
>bcapps@agora.rain.com (gay stuff)    | okay, but wash it first.
>bcapps@atlastele.com (telecom stuff) |

Bil Snodgrass III
From: wanek@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Wanek)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 02:45:59 GMT
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment #2: Bad news
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: soc.motss

In soc.motss, jct@mips.com (Chris Thomas) writes:

> 5.	What does the proposed Colorado for Family Values amendment say?
> 
> It would amend Article 2 of the Colorado Constitution by the addition
> of Section 30, which states: NO PROTECTED STATUS BASED ON HOMOSEXUAL,
> LESBIAN OR BISEXUAL ORIENTATION. Neither the State of Colorado,
> through any of its branches or departments, nor any of its agencies,
> political subdivisions, municipalities or school districts, shall
> enact, adopt or enforce any statute, regulation, ordinance or policy
> whereby homosexual, lesbian or bisexual orientation, conduct,
> practices or relationships shall constitute or otherwise be the basis
> of, or entitle any person or class of persons to have or claim any
> minority status, quota preferences, protected status or claim of
                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is why it passed...people see this and think it's only about
affirmative action.  They don't understand that the real impact of
the amendment is contained in the words "claim of discrimination".
Colorado for Family Values empasized the quota issue heavily in 
their campaign to divert attention from their true aim.

The worst part is that this is not just any referendum, it's an
amendment to the state constitution, voted in by a simple majority
of the drooling masses, most of whom can't understand the directions
to a bag of microwave popcorn.  Not even the state supreme court
can second guess them.

> discrimination. This Section of the Constitution shall be in all
> respects self-executing.
>

Looks like it's time to move to Oregon.

John
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Lesbianlessness (was Re: Re: Lesbianville on 20/20)
Date: 6 Nov 92 22:58:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: midway.1992Nov6.225850.22568
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

I wrote:
>> soc.bi has been a very successful group, managing ... to pull in
>> "straight-identified" bisexuals ...

Jake Coughlin queries:
>i'm really curious what that last phrase means ... you could also
>mean that "straight-identified" bisexuals felt less threatened to 
>approach soc.bi (which i can understand.)

Yes.

>[i guess my real problem is with that horrible word "straight-
> identified".  i'm just glad that my garbage can is close to my desk.]

Not my word, and an argument I'd just as soon not open up here in
soc.motss.

--                    __
Ellen Keyne Seebacher \/             elle@midway.uchicago.edu
  "Maybe your neighbor is merely straight-acting, a deplorable condition
   from which a full recovery is quite possible."  --Jess Anderson
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Military info needed
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 17:00:45 GMT

> ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble) writes:

>Well, let's hope that Clinton has enough integrity to keep his campaign
>pledge. Already there are rumblings that Admiral Crowe, the Chief of
>Staff under Bush who defected to the Clinton camp, is attempting to
>persuade Clinton against issuing the executive order.
>
>I can see the rationalization going something like: "Well, I really
>would like to, but our military has convinced me that we need to study
>the question for a while to determine the effect on the armed services
>as a whole."

I don't know how much more explicit Clinton has to be to
convince people that he's really going to overturn the ban.
At his news conference yesterday (Thursday 11/13), he said:

	Let me tell you what I'm going to do.  My concern here is
    to do it in a way that is most appropriate for the
    management of the whole national security and military
    interests of the country.  I want to consult with a lot
    of people about what our options are, including people
    who may disagree with me about the ultimate merits.  And
    let me remind you one more time about how this all came up.

    This whole issue really came to light when Secretary of
    Defense Cheney was asked to comment on a study that there
    were many thousands of men and women who were homosexuals
    in the military forces who served our country with great
    distinction and never did anything in their conduct that
    was destructive of the morale or the purpose of the
    military.

    And I think he referred to this rule as "an old chestnut"
    or something of that kind.  [Actually, Cheney called the
    notion that gays could be blackmailed into committing
    treason "an old chestnut"...rod]

    What I want to do is to come up with an appropriate
    response that will focus sharply on the fact that we do
    have people who are homosexuals who served our country
    with distinction, who were never kicked out of the
    military.  Others, who are being kicked out of the
    military -- one of whom has just been reinstated by court
    [Navy Petty Officer Keith Meinhold...rod].  And the issue
    ought to be conduct.  Has anybody fone anything which
    would disqualify them, whether it's Tailhook scandal or
    something else?  And so what I plan to do in an
    appropriate fashion, in a prompt fashion, is to put
    together a group of people and let them advise me about
    how we might best do this.  But I'm not going to change
    my position on it.

That last line carries some weight, I think.  Why would he
commit himself so thoroughly to overturning the ban if he knew
he mightn't follow through?  It's not like he didn't know
only too well that there'd be a great to do about it...
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: max@queernet.org (Max J. Rochlin)
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 01:55:46 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1992Nov12.205747.28234@ads.com> henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:
>madonna's book is, well, kinda pedestrian.  the only curious bits
>about it are its packaging and cover.

I agree.  I also think the packaging is aweful.  Wire bound (note)books
have never held up for me.   In San Francisco, when you tire of the book
you also have to go thru the extra effort of tearing out the pages so that
the cover and the contents go in the separate recycle bins.


...Max
-- 
+-----------------------------------------+
|  max@queernet.org  |   Max J. Rochlin   |
+-----------------------------------------+
Xref: sparky soc.motss:46514 talk.politics.misc:58757 ca.politics:9412
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
Subject: How Many Homosexuals?
Date: 7 Nov 92 01:11:36 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

Another data point, suggesting that the percentage of homosexuals
is quite a bit less than 10%:

In article <1992Nov5.205635.11633@PacBell.COM>, rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams) writes:
# In an article on "The Gay Issues" in its Elections section
# (11/05/92), The New York Times mentions that the Voter
# Research and Surveys (VRS) exit poll was "the first
# nationwide poll that asked people leaving voting places if
# they were homosexual or bisexual."
# 
# 2.4 percent of those polled identified themselves as
# homosexual or bisexual, but Murray Edelman, the poll director,
# believes this was an undercount.  "Many people are reluctant
# to disclose their homosexuality, and many do not fill out the
# poll questionnaire all the way to the end, where the question
# was."  He estimated the gay vote at "possibly 4 or 5 percent,
# which would make it the size of the Jewish vote."
# -- 
# rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com

The 3.3% figure for male homosexuals and bisexuals used by Masters, 
Johnson, & Kolodny looks more and more plausible.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
The Physician Assisted Death Initiative failed.  Term limits for Congressmen
passed.  If only we could have combined the two... two terms, and a doctor
does lethal injection...
Newsgroups: soc.motss