HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jwtlai@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca (Jim W "GrimJim" Lai)
Subject: Re: Why freedom of information must be garenteed!!!
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 22:13:23 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.120320.7146@ac.dal.ca> rclarke@ac.dal.ca writes:
>information is the end
>product of process involving the natural resorce of data (colected elsewhere)
>and human ingenuity.  If a large corporation apprpriated all the means of
>colecting data and, as well, patented all kinds of information and inforced
>those patent with police, army, etc.  Then no one would be able to think for
>them selves and it would be 1984 except with corporation structure insted
>of comunist. 

They (whatever they happen to be) can't patent our senses, which are our most
basic means of collecting information.  Also note that the society in 1984
was stagnant, not conducive to the advancement of technology, for it would
spoil the balance of power between the three alternatively warring/peaceful
nations.  Corporations facing competition couldn't afford that stagnation.
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: sef@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan)
Subject: Re: Continuing Time Post, #2
Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 23:24:01 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.213452.25573@cs.com> larry@cs.com (Larry Spence) writes:
>In article <ic4ZPB2w165w@pain.la.ca.us> d_moran@pain.la.ca.us (Daniel Keys 
>Moran) writes, oops, I mean "issues a press release":

No, more like:  answers questions that a lot of his readers have been
asking.  And since he is mentioned in the FAQ for this group, and the series
whose timeline he posted is the reason for his mention in the FAQ, I didn't
think it unwarranted.  I would have preferred that he crosspost, but I
informed him of such.

>Is the idea here that treekiller onanistic sci-fantasy stories that refuse
>to die "are cyberpunk?"  Geez, get a li- .... no, I won't say it. %)

Haven't read the books, I take it.

In your own weords, get a life, jerk.

-- 
Sean Eric Fagan  | "You can't get lost in one room, no matter how
sef@kithrup.COM  |  little effort you make to learn your way around."
-----------------+    -- William E Davidsen (william@crd.GE.COM)
Any opinions expressed are my own, and generally unpopular with others.
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: foxd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (daniel fox)
Subject: Re: cyberpunk satellite transmissions from alien beings?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 22:22:26 GMT


What your dad has picked up are the test transmissions of the SCI-FI CHANNEL
on Galaxy 5 Transponder 4.  The messages will become more clear as the
startup date approaches (Sept 24).

                                      Daniel B. Fox
                                      KF9ET
.standard disclaimer
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: shaun@octel.com (Attacking Deep Structure)
Subject: Re: Ways Women Lead  (no hierarchy in the future!)
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 23:58:15 GMT

In article <=!cnmwd.jsuttor@netcom.com> jsuttor@netcom.com (Jeff Suttor) writes:
>It's too bad that cyberPunk seems to be 'a dick thing'.  The cyberFuture
>will hopefully be less gender defined and more open.

It's not a dick thing; it's a _hair thing_.  Infrequently, a dickhair thing.

>I'm looking forward to a swiss-army-crotch with nanotech 'nads!

I'm not, but I'll watch it on video.

-- 
shaun@octel.com  ||  "Now is the time on Sprockets when we Lambada!"
              
Laundry: the process of turning perfectly good clothes into lint.
From: rclarke@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Why freedom of information must be garenteed!!
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:56:01 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Some have asked for my real name -->  Ethan Clarke
RClarke@Ac.Dal.CA
From: larry@cs.com (Larry Spence)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Why freedom of information must be garenteed!!! [sic]
Summary: eaten alive by biker gangs
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:58:43 GMT
Organization: Computer Support Corporation,  Dallas,Texas

In article <1992Aug26.142317.7154@ac.dal.ca> rclarke@ac.dal.ca writes:
>
>If you organize before the crash to replace the system of government after
>the net is down then people won't stave.  People are already starving under
>this system!  

I assume you'd take out the phone system, too, as that could be used to
stop a revolution?  What about all the loss of innocent lives due to 
inability to call police (for burglaries), fire dept, ambulances, etc.?
There'd be mass looting and pillaging.  Amateur philosophers with computers 
would be eaten alive by hordes of bikers and survivalists.  They might 
thank you for crashing the net before they blew your head off.

You act as though this rebooting process is something that can be done
in a day or two.  Also, I'm curious as to what sort of "organizing" is 
going to insure that everyone in a large metropolitan area is going to 
be fed, have fires put out, etc.  Any "organizing" on that scale is going 
to be obvious to the authorities.  I can believe that the system could be
brought down, but I don't think anyone would be able to control what
happens after that...

>I am wondering though, do you support the status quoe just 
>because a few rich people would run out of BMWs?

Oh yeah, that's it.  Duhhhh....

-- 
Larry Spence
larry@cs.com
uunet!csccat!larry or sun!texsun!csccat!larry
From: raa@guild.socal.com (Raa Lopez)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: How is cyberpunk defined?
Date: 2 Sep 92 03:44:27 PST
Organization: TheGuild[FTS]

Heheh ... yeah I hope LA gits like Chiba in the Near Future ... I really like the CyberPunk Genre ... Guns! Drugs! Prostitution! I always liked the CP genre ... and I hope LA sinks into It more!

--- Via UCI v1.05 (C-Net Amiga)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Gibson's world and Ours
From: [--- ikke! <A6014BB@HASARA11.BITNET>
Date: Tuesday, 1 Sep 1992 13:07:25 CET
Organization: SARA - Stichting Academisch Rekencentrum Amsterdam

In article <cX78PB1w165w@angus.mi.org>, thx1138@angus.mi.org (Scott Abfalter)
says:
>
>Someone said that the world in Gibson's books were just fiction and
>not manefesto's of the Information Age.
 
That depends on what world you are talking about. Of course we only
have one world but Gibson writes about south-east Asia, the US, and
a lot about Amsterdam. I live in Amsterdam and the general idea that
Gibson has is pretty realistic. He talks about places where you can
'get things' like special electronics and drugs. Here in Amsterdam
you can get good electronic devices and drugs if you know where to
get them. There is also a large underground society if you can call
it that. I've never seen 5" steel nails flash out from someones
knuckles though...
 
>Rockets used to be scifi.  So were pocket calculators (Asimov descibed
>one in his 1940's book 'Foundation').  Genetic Engineering.
>Prosthetics.
 
1984 used to be science fiction... and Big Brother...
 
 
>The whole point of science fiction is to show us possibilities of what
>emergent technologies will bring to us.
>
>Cyberpunk fiction tends to hit closer to home than a lot of scifi.
 
I think that depends on your definition of cyberpunk fiction. As you
probably know, 'cyberpunk' used to exist only in literature, until
someone gave a small underground society (or must I say hype) the
description of cyberpunk. This is not a 'science-fiction come true',
but merely an adaption of a definition. Asimov made up devices LIKE
pocket calculators, but that doesn't mean that the Casio's we use
now are the same thing. Cyberpunks in real life are only called
cyberpunk because they get the closest to the meaning literature
gave it. (I know I'm not making much sense here but try to grab
what I'm trying to say).
 
>Gibson might have been talking about a fictive world, but you will
 
 
>be suprised to see just how much of what he envisioned will come
>true.  Read Sterling's Islands in the Net for another one like that.
>
>Now that Gibson (and Vernor Vinge, and a host of others) have flared
>the idea of 'cyberspace' in the minds of of the copmputer world
>programmers will not rest until we see it.  Beside --it's the natural
>extension of GUI interfaces _anyway_.
 
I am working on a project that enables people in different continents
to play virtual soccer together. They see eachother on a 9' by 9'
video screen and the computer interprets their movements. I know
this is just childs play compared to what Gibson a.o. envisioned
but it's a start.
 
>Corporations weild a lot of power.  Political power.  This is a self
>feeding process and they will get more an more important politically.
>
>True, Gibson's fiction was not a blueprint of the world today (nor was
>it meant to be) --but it sure is a pretty good indication of what is
>to come!
 
Do you mean technically or politically?
 
>THX
>
 
Bjorn (bjorn@sara.nl)
what's a disclaimer?
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.cult-movies,rec.arts.movies
From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (tao master of existential angst)
Subject: Blade Runner FAQ/Analysis Wanted
Followup-To: alt.cyberpunk
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 02:33:48 GMT


Could someone please direct me to someplace where I might find some
information on Blade Runner?  I'm taking a class where we read the
film (ie: analyze ad nauseum, moreso than Ridley Scott ever would've
thought possible :)...So I could really use an anlysis or a FAQ or
some vital information....

Thanx in advance....please e-mail...

--
 ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu   FutureCulture E-List: [future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu]
 andy (hawkeye)         new edge, technoculture, cyberpunk, virtual reality,
                        raves, etc. Home of the famous :) FutureCulture FAQ!
 
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: shaun@octel.com (Attacking Deep Structure)
Subject: Re: Why freedom of information must be garenteed!!!
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 23:35:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.115623.7145@ac.dal.ca> rclarke@ac.dal.ca writes:
>So if you really knocked them off gard a revolution would be much more
>posiable.  Then once in power the poor would be able fix the position of power
>and bring up the net again with accses for all. 

Not possible.  Running something like the Internet takes more than a few
system administrators or well-intentioned hackers.  It also requires the
following:

1.  Power generation and distribution in every area you want the net to
    reach

2.  Worldwide telecom providers to provide telecommunications links from
    region to region via wire or microwave, and fiber across oceans

3.  At least one competent aerospace organization to maintain and replace
    satellites

4.  Bazillions of specialty service providers to make replacement parts
    like ethernet cards, serial cards, CPU cards, RAM, modems, hard disks,
    microwave dishes, routers, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., 
    etc.

How many of these are going to survive a revolution containing bombing, 
and gunfire?  Anywhere you have a violent revolution on the scale of 
Lebanon, Viet Nam, or Los Angeles, organized services like police, 
hospitalization, and network access suddenly disappear.  Collapse is
collapse, and things like the Internet sit at the very top of the
societal structure.  When one of the supports break locally, the 
service breaks locally.  

Your statement above makes me wonder if you've thought your argument
through, or are just baiting flames... perhaps for an a.f.w. contest.

@ttus

-- 
shaun@octel.com  ||  "Now is the time on Sprockets when we Lambada!"
              
Laundry: the process of turning perfectly good clothes into lint.
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Linguistic/conceptual
From: daniel.moran@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.us (Daniel Moran) 
Date: 30 Aug 92 20:56:00 GMT
Reply-To: daniel.moran@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.us (Daniel Moran) 
Distribution: world
Organization: The Batchelor Pad PCBoard ~ Long Beach, CA ~ +1 310 494 8084

BC>I must make a hazy reference to a chinese quote which runs, loosely, like:
BC> A thought that is spoken is a thought that is changed.

The map is not the object. Language is insufficient. Fortunately, it's
not all we have. Music, painting, sports (at least at the playing level)
all help give commonality to the internal referents of the people who
have shared that experience. If you watch basketball you may know what a
"give-and-go" is -- but unless you play the game, you can't know how it
feels to perform it. And all the words in the world can't do more than
give you a vague intimation of what the act feels like.
---
 . OLX 2.1 TD . Press any key to continue or any other key to quit
From: megazone@rivdell.UUCP (Megazoner)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Why freedom of information must be garenteed!!!
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 04:19:48 CDT
Organization: Rivendell BBS / Hou, TX. / +1 713 941 2236

rclarke@ac.dal.ca writes:

> I was talking about hacking (cracking, whatever) this sommer and I have decid
> That there is a great weak spot in the current ecconmic system that may bring
> the rich to there neas (sp?).  Computers are mostly used by the rich.  In Nor
> America they are the middle class but on a would scale, even working class
> North Americans are rich comparied to the starving people in Somalia (or any 
> third would country).  In the future computers will probably be networked int
> one large entity (it's nowhere near that stage now) and will be run by the ri
> But the rich will also be dependant on the computers to maintain there postio
> of power.  The poor will probably be prety much excluded from the net (except
> for a few cyber cowboys).  The net will probably not affect the poor very muc
>   So if someone were to find a hole in the net then bring it down you would
> knock the support out from under the rich and they would be off balence (thou
> I admit that it wouldn't be for long) and the poor might have a chance to fig
> back.  The sutting down of the net would be nessary because if the rich were
> still able to use the net they would be able distroy (sp?) any uprising that
> occured.  

 Interesting. Your earlier paragraph stated that you desired freedom of 
information. However, this above statement seems to contradict that.

 You say that rich people (relative richness, globally) own most computer 
resources, so to bring everyone to equality ya gotta shut the net down. 
How odd...considering that the particular net you are posting on happens 
to provide information to anyone that wants to have a look. Sure, those 
in impoverished nations may not own a computer, but gosh, those same 
nations barely have phone services. How can they call in? It seems to me 
that if you want to bring everyone to a single classless society, attack 
the governments that keep these people in suppression, I suppose. 

 Shutting down the net would prevent you from airing your views. Hacking 
(you must mean cracking) the net just to bring it down for the people's 
revolution would be foolish...do you realize how much information goes 
across the internet? This is not just a fancy bbs.

 Don't smash the net. Make it so everyone can have access to it, even if 
you just manage to put a terminal in every township, paid for by the 
government, or whatever. Maybe you could fund the effort.

 Although I doubt you would, considering that your reasonings are flawed 
along with your view of how things are run in the world.

   MI

--
megazone@rivdell.UUCP (Megazoner)
Rivendell BBS -*- Houston, TX -*- +1(713)941-2236
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: gary@nexnix.demon.co.uk (Gary Howland)
Subject: Movie: Hardware... is it cp? 
Distribution: world
Organization: nexnix
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:18:36 +0000

In article <9208172147.AA04697@magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> nhaldar@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu writes:

>I just saw the Movie _hardware_ for the 3rd time, and realized it had some 
>pretty neat cp-elements... like the underground culture, the idea of selling 
>scrap metal found in the "zones" to various dealers, etc...
>
>Anyone else with thoughts on this?

I thought hardware was a load of cheap toss.  OK, it may have had some
cp-elements (and even cp-music), but was still tacky.  If a film really
is 'the terminator of the 90s', would it really have it plastered on the
front cover?  All my friends seem to think it is great, but only because
it has their favourite groups playing certain roles or background music.
And it is one of those films with really DEEP meanings (man) - you know, the
biblical reference about MK13 - wow.  It is a film that tries to get the
best elements of other films (bits from terminator, bladerunner, raiders
of the lost ark) to make the ultimate film, but ends up making one of the
tackiest I have seen since 'battle beyond the stars'.

Not recommended to be watched seriously.
Xref: sparky alt.cyberpunk:3973 alt.suburbs:29 alt.pagan:8346
From: usenet@inesc.pt (USENET News System)
Subject: Re: _Turing ..._
Reply-To: jota@iguana.UUCP (Joao Pedro Martins)
Organization: void INESC();
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:57:32 GMT

>In article <1992Aug28.151754.16221@inesc.pt>
>usenet@inesc.pt (USENET News System) writes:
>> In article <1992Aug28.040259.2038@leela.cs.orst.edu> mcbeeb@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Brian Mcbee) writes:
>> [...]
>> >In general, there are more people living in prosperity and freedom than there

>Several hundred years ago people were forced to build large forts
>around their cities/homes to protect themselves from others with
>castles who wanted to kill them and steal their possetions. Around the
>previously mentioned fortifications hundreds of people huddles around
>in their houses made of mud, straw, and manure. Families needed to have
>lots (say, 5 or so) kids in order to continue their bloodline. Hardly
>anyone could read. Famine and epidemics were rampent, and no one had
>medical care.
>This was how the most wealthy cultures lived.

>Today, this more describes the least well-off cultures.

>I think Mr. Mcbee has a point.

	well, ok, ok. I got a bit carried away. All I wanted to say is that one
cannot simply say that "there are more people living in prosperity and freedom"
, because info is beeing omited. One must also remember that probably there
are more people living without prosperity and freedom than ever. And one must
also remember things that exist nowadays and didn't exist in other ages, like
neonazism, Yugoslavia, Somalia, East-Timor, destruction of the environment, 
polution, etc. 
	Just keep this is mind...


----
 joao Pedro Martins, Lisboa, Portugal - jota@tutor.UUCP
 
 "Carpe Diem, she muttered... we seize the day.	
  Well, sometimes, the day seizes back !" (Psychodrome)
From: Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca (Jeremy Reimer)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Our age (was: off-topic)
Date: 2 Sep 92 10:07:24 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

> Geoff Schmidt writes:
> I'd like to see you give us 10 goods reasons for living in this age.  And not
> any of this "peace of good nature to all man" crap either (meant to chris)
> not
> morpheus.  In my life Ive found their is very little to do and there is
> becoming less all the time.
> 
>  bliss32


(had to butt in here...)

TOP TEN REASONS FOR LIVING IN THIS AGE
--------------------------------------

10. Virtual reality is an infant technology, improving rapidly
9.  Computers in ten years will blow our minds
8.  Video games in ten years will make Wing Commander seem like Pong
7.  Information retrieval will be available to more people than ever before
6.  Graphics technology will make possible cheap yet enormously entertaining
    movies (I actually liked T2, guys)
5.  More and more interesting and entertaining fiction is being written,
    including but not limited to the cyberpunk genre
4.  The "New Right" political block will wane in power, and we may yet
    see the middle class get out from under the boot of the ultra-rich
3.  People will begin to see the results of uncontrolled environmental
    pollution (FINALLY) perhaps even in time to make significant progress
    towards correcting these problems
2.  Cheap electronic toys available to almost anyone
1.  Television will get so awful that many people will actually consider
    doing something else with their spare time.

If you find that there are fewer things to do all the time then that is YOUR
FAULT!  Sitting around moaning about our age doesn't do much to correct the
many problems that exist.  Personally, I find I have TOO MUCH to do, there
aren't enough hours in the day even to read all the books that I would like,
let alone anything else.

I too used to think that the 20th century human race was doomed, and that there
was no hope.  But after a while such thought becomes self-defeating.  Every age
has had its problems, our own may be much larger in scale but then again we
also possess the technology to handle large-scale problems if we choose to do
so.  The "Gibson/Bladerunner" view of the future is more an exaggeration of the
problems of the world TODAY than it is an accurate depiction of tomorrow.  Max
Headroom began with "Twenty minutes into the future..." for a *very* good
reason...


        
--
Jeremy_Reimer@ |"Anti-ninjas were the most feared assassins in the world.
mindlink.bc.ca | Instead of appearing out of thin air, throwing metal stars
---------------| and messing around with bo staffs and numchuks they simply
aka THE JAGUAR!| shot people and then drove everyone mad with pointless
---------------| conspiracy theories for years afterwards."
Stealth Sig#42 |  --From "N-Man #3"
From: pete@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au (Peter Alexander Merel)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Rights in cyberspace
Date: 27 Aug 92 01:00:54 GMT
Organization: Customised Software Solutions Centres, AOTC

Jeremiah.Blatz@dartmouth.edu (Jeremiah Blatz) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.062941.28051@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au>
>> My point is that there is no qualitative difference between
>> a physical object and a virtual object - both require an investment of
>> finite resources, and _control_ over either is saleable.

>If somebody calls up a BBS and downloads an e-copy of _Moby Dick_ there
>is simply one more e-copy of _Moby Dick_ floating around. Unless the
>sysop of said BBS deletes his copy, they will never not have it. A
>farmer, on the other hand, cannot give someone corn without having
>less, he they grow more. The farmer *can* grow more corn, but it will
>cost him money to do so.

The sysop can acquire another copy of Moby Dick, but it will cost him money
too. Look at it this way: Moby Dick is information. Corn is information. 
Information must be represented in a physical medium. Control and
distribution of physical media costs money. 

Moby Dick is corn. It's corn.


-- 
Internet: pete@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au   UUCP: {uunet,mcvax}!munnari!cssc-syd!pete
Snail: 1/18-20 Orion Road, Lane Cove NSW 2066 Australia    Phone: +61 2 911 3130
The rose that once has blown forever dies. Not.
From: rclarke@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Why freedom of information must be garenteed!!!
Date: 26 Aug 92 12:03:20 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In my first post I forgot to define information:  information is the end
product of process involving the natural resorce of data (colected elsewhere)
and human ingenuity.  If a large corporation apprpriated all the means of
colecting data and, as well, patented all kinds of information and inforced
those patent with police, army, etc.  Then no one would be able to think for
them selves and it would be 1984 except with corporation structure insted
of comunist. 

By the way i'm not a comunist.  I'm a democratic soltialist.
RClarke@AC.DAL.CA