From: rchilder@us.oracle.com (Richard Childers)
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast,alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship
Subject: Re: ARF's racist remark was:Re: Treason vs. Espionage
Date: 11 Dec 92 01:46:43 GMT
Organization: Memes-R-Us
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dan@jonas.berkeley.edu (dan graves) writes:

>arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes:

>|>  >You agree that non-whites are incapable of sustaining our 
>|>  civilization?  That's pretty raw even for you, Jack.

This sounds like a rather loaded question ... and I should note that
I am taking it on credsit that this is actually what Jack said, and
that this is not a misinterpretation of his statements. He seems to
get that a lot, as a consequence of assuming stances that are not
popular.


>|>  Clearly when a whole group of Aamericans desides to call 
>|>  themselves African-Americans, they are implying a desire to 
>|>  promote a different culture.
>|>  
>|>  js

>This comment is racist.  Clearly Schmidling thinks
>that African Americans have less right to their identity
>than Italian Americans or Irish Americans or 
>(insert Caucasian identity) Americans.

Pshaw. It's not racist, standing by itself up there in black and white.
Maybe with a little context, it might be. Jack has never struck me as
irrational, he always has reasons for why he feels or thinks some way,
and will usually explain them, if asked.

Doesn't mean he's right. But he _does_ seem to be _very_ rational, and
gets my respect for this reason. He beats a lot of people hands down in
_that_ department.

In any case, I, for one, am at a loss as to why people move to America,
then pine for the old country and insist on indoctrinating their kids
into it. I'm half Hungarian, and have seen it in my own family, as well
as friends - Chinese, White _and_ Red Russians, many European persons,
and, of course, in the upsurge of Black nationalism. I can think of at
least half a dozen Irish Catholic families that still send their kids
back to Ireland occasionally, here in San Francisco alone.

I can understand why people might resort to it as a method of maintaining
a family structure in an alien environment ... but to people born there,
it shouldn't be an alien environment.

I think what Jack is noticing is that something is out of whack. He is
right there. What he's missing, IMHO, is that Black people born in North
America, still feel like they are in an alien environment. And that is
a real problem, one crying to be solved.

But it is not, de facto, racism to notice a race-based problem.

If there is additional text that has been omitted that is damning, I have
no problem modifying that perception.


>I've got news for you, Schmidling, you hateful racist
>bastard.  African Americans have been here longer than most groups
>and have made more of a contribution to American culture
>than any other ethnic group i can think of.
>They can call themselves anything they like and i for 
>one will respect their contribution to MY culture.
>
>Yes, Schmidling, you filthy racist, African Americans
>are just as American as you are.  In fact, you 
>have shown you do not understand the basic principles that 
>the United States depends upon. I for one am ashamed that
>you exist to shame the name of my great country.

This in itself is pretty hateful and does little to resolve Schmidling's
alleged thought crime(s), now does it ?


-- richard

-- 
=====
-- richard childers		rchilder@us.oracle.com		1 415 506 2411
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