HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: klui@corp.hp.com (Kenneth K.F. Lui)
Subject: Re: IMSA history (was Nissan and IMSA)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:52:24 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.142700.16232@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dwood@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Deron A Wood) writes:
[stuff re: Nissan pulling out of IMSA GTP]
>     Now does this scenario sound familiar, like maybe the reaction of Honda
>to Renault's onslaught?

The main reason I will never buy a Nissan, Honda, or Mazda
(they're pulling out of IMSA GTP, too; and it's pretty funny
because I still have an ad that says they're going going to
dominate [paraphrasing] the series like they've done in the GTU
and GTO series).  Geez, it's been only a year since Mazda went
into the GTP class.  "If ya can't take the heat, stay outta the
kitchen."--my kitchen.  I'll be really interested in seeing how
things will turn out for '93 when Honda will supposedly--not
sure--go into IMSA GTP.

Who really wins is Geoff Brabham, who allegedly would like very
much to get back into Indy.

I've never really followed IMSA GTP racing until this year and
it's made me respect names such as Buick, Jaguar, and Toyota.
Just so I don't jump into the wrong conclusions, does anyone have
a history of the IMSA GTP series (or references); i.e. who won
the manufacturers'/drivers' title in what year?


Ken
#include <disclaimers>  My opinion does not reflect those of my employer
-- 
Kenneth K.F. Lui, klui@corp.hp.com                  3000 Hanover Street MS20BJ
Corporate Administrative Information Systems        Palo Alto, CA  94304   USA
Core Application Technologies                1(415)857-3230 Fax 1(415)852-8026
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: tvp53202@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Toby Vaughn Padfield)
Subject: Superfuels and what happened after Hungary
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:14:14 GMT

	This came from the September 2 edition of The National Speed
Sport News, a weekly racing magazine in the US.
  "The `rocket' fuels used until the Hungarian GP favored engines (such
as the Renault V-10) which have a large bore and a short stroke. Lorenz
Heer, Ilmor, an engineer, said: `The most difficult thing for teh engine
so far is that teh fuel we used until Hungary has a higher flame speed. 
And that allows you to have a short-stroke engine with a huge bore. That
is very good for high revving engines.'
  Flame speed is the way fuel burns in teh cylinder. You want fuel to burn
around teh piston not onli in teh center.`So if you have a big area on the
piston,' Heer said, `because you have a big bore and a short stroke, you need
quite a high burning speed so that you gain an advantage from it. Otherwise
you don't have very good efficiency and you lose power.'
  The Ilmor V-10, with a more conventional bore/stroke ratio, may not have
suffered as big a power drop as other engines."


	All of that was reported by Dan Knutson, the F1 write for the NSSN.
I thought that was pretty informative stuff. Indeed, Renault did suffer teh
most from the new fuel regulations, or at least it looked that way to me.

TOBY...

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: csroach@eng.clemson.edu (Shane Roach)
Subject: Re: Sport Salaries
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:39:49 GMT

From article <184202@pyramid.pyramid.com>, by danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones):
> 
> I saw most of this list over the weekend on a local BayArea news report (I 
> would name them if I could remember which one).  They listed 1,2,5-10, but 
> skiped our friends.  
> 
> Why?
> 
> If any locals can recall the channel, please post.  What's its all about
> are the local broadcasters embarrassed they can't pronounce Ayrton or 
> Mansell?
 
There was a quick mention of this on the 11 pm news on the local ABC affiliate
(WLOS 13, Asheville, NC).  They showed pictures of Jordan, Holyfield, Senna, 
Nicklaus, and Agassi.  But poor befuddled Darcel Grimes said this: "Tops on 
the list were Jordan, Holyfield, (pauses as Senna's face flashes up) and others
included were Nicklaus and Agassi."  This from the same station whose sports
chief, in telling of the Senna-Prost@Suzuka.90 incident showed how rarely he
mentioned these men by calling them "Eye-airton Seena and Elaine Proest".
Sad sad sad.


Shane Roach
csroach@eng.clemson.edu



Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: scdorcy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY)
Subject: Re: Autosport's opinion
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 13 Nov 1992 09:08 EST  

In article <zlsiida.412@fs1.mcc.ac.uk>, zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) 
writes...
>I quote:
> 
>The crash came on lap 19 as the Brazilian challenged Mansell for the lead on 
>the approach to the final hairpin.  Mansell took a tighter line, protecting 
>the inside from Senna and had to brake earlier.  Senna, who was tucked 
>behind him, was taken by surprise, locked his rear brakes and slid into the 
>back of Mansell's Williams.
> 
>Anybody with a video want to check whether Senna's rear was locked up?

Hmm... Does this have anything to do with the phrase "pucker factor"? :-)

JD
From: tiok_kl@tac.fi (Kari Leminen)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Brundle - Hakkinen, Lotus - Williams
Date: 10 Nov 92 09:49:47 +0200
Organization: City of Tampere

In article <1992Nov2.121103.23599@abo.fi>, TBACKMAN@finabo.abo.fi (Timo B{ckman TF) writes:
> 
> According to finnish TV Frank Williams is still negotiating with Lotus to
> buy out Hakkinen. But FW also said that he don't want to take Hakkinen 
> from Lotus "with force" (whatever that means). Alain Prost is said to be
> pleased with the thought that he would drive with Hakkinen next year.
> There has been notices about the amounts of money involved in this kind of 
> deal. Williams is said to be willing to pay Lotus 5 million pounds sterling, 
> but that Lotus wants 10. They also said that FW is again negotiating with 
> Martin Brundle, in case he won't get Hakkinen. 
> 
	According latest news Hakkinen is not a potential Williams
        driver because :
	1. Renault doesn't want him .
	2. Peter Collins wont let him go .
	 
	So, atleast one candidate is out of question .

> Timo Backman 
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tiok_kl@tac.fi                                   _/  _/  _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ 
Kari Leminen                                    _/ _/   _/  _/ _/  _/ _/  _/   
                                               _/_/    _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/
Department of information technology          _/ _/   _/  _/ _/     _/  _/    
        Tampere ,Finland                     _/   _/ _/  _/ _/     _/  _/  
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David_McCullum@mindlink.bc.ca (David McCullum)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Nissan and IMSA
Date: 13 Nov 92 05:31:30 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

> Deron A Wood writes:
>
> Msg-ID: <1992Nov12.142700.16232@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
> Posted: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:27:0
>
> Org.  : The Ohio State University
>
> I have a few comments about the recent decision of Nissan to pull out of
> the
> IMSA GTP series.  They stated that they were going into Indy Car racing
> because
> of the amount of exposure.  Well, they sure didn't seem to have any lack of
> exposure when they won 4 (or 5) straight manufacturer's titles and 4 (or 5)
> straight driver's titles.

Sure, they got exposure in IMSA circles, and in their own ads, but the
reality is that the Indycar series, its teams and sponsors get just a little
more press, TV time, attention, and "exposure." Don't get me wrong, I love
watching GTP racing, but don't you notice all those empty seats at the tracks
when Jag, Nissan et al are running? People just seem to like the Indy cars
better.

david
--
      /|
     / |\                                 a470@mindlink.bc.ca
    /  | \                      david_mccullum@mindlink.bc.ca
   /___|  \                                 Vancouver, Canada
 ______|___\
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                    the water rat had it right
From: optikhog@cs1.bradley.edu (Jeffrey Laird)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Mansell -Senna - Adelaide
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:26:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs1.optikhog.721340788
Organization: Bradley University

In <1992Nov9.102554.12769@rulway.LeidenUniv.nl> crisar@rulcvx.LeidenUniv.nl (Anton van Rosmalen) writes:

>After watching the Australian GP twice and Hunt-Walker comments
>J. Stewart called it a brain fade , i still dont know what to 
>think on the Senna-Mansell shunt, My first reaction was Senna was
>accelerating ? , when he made contact,  (he certainly did not
>seem to be under brakes)

He was most definately under brakes at the time of the incident.  If you look
at it slowly, you can see the tires smoking from lockup.  Senna (for some
reason) hit that corner going too fast for Mansell's aparent slow-down.


--
 _____________________________________________________________________________
|optikhog@bucs1.bradley.edu| "Look inside and you will see                     |
|optikhog@buhub.bradley.edu|  The words are cutting deep inside my brain       |
|                          |  Thunder burnin' quickly burning                  |
|    Bradley University    |  Knife of words is driving me insane, insane yeah"|
|    Peoria, IL  61606     |      -Budgie, 1974; Metallica, 1987               |
|__________________________|___________________________________________________|
From: s1072964@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au (SHERLOCK(G.Fletcher))
Subject: Mansell and Senna
Summary: Senna Sux
Keywords: Mansell and Senna
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 00:48:48 GMT

    Well I don't know about anyone else but I think we have just seen the
    Senna of old!. That's right, his reckless and unpunished driving has done
    it again, I was quite annoyed and very PISSED OFF when I saw him just
    calmly wipe out Mansell and was hoping that Mansell would once and for go
    and punch his lights out. It's about time someone taught Senna a lesson in
    how to drive. I think his actions were summed up well by Allen Jones when
    he said that Senna must have had "brain fade".
        I can only look forward to the Indy races now as the only thing that
        would keep me watching F1 is Mansell doing a complete turnaround and
        going back to Williams, Senna being banned for life, and Prost be
        told to piss off and made to drive a Jordan.
    OK flame me if you want but I don't care, as far as I'm concerned F1 has
    lost one of the(if not THE) best drivers in the world. And this is totally
    unacceptable, all thanks to tthe FRENCH owners of the Williams/Renault
    team and them wanting a French driver to win the world championship in a
    french car. I hope Williams fall apart!!! Go NIGEL!!!!




             I'M ON A HIGHWAY TO HELL AND I'M GONNA RIDE ON!!!!!

*******************************************************************************
*                                  |                                          *
*  Fletch                          |     "No one rises so high as he who      *
*  Traralgon 3844                  |      knows not whither he is going"      *
* s1072964@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au  |          - Oliver Cromwell               *
*                                  |                                          *
*******************************************************************************




Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: tanenbla@cs.columbia.edu (Michael Tanenblatt)
Subject: Why Senna didn't do it purposely
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:44:54 GMT


I seriously doubt Senna intentionally smashed into Mansell's Williams, for
the simple reason that he is a proud sort, and the difference between
finishing in the points and not finishing at all was the difference between
possibly finishing in second place for the season or finishing fourth,
behind someone who is basically a rookie.  If Senna could have finished
first, he would have been in sole possession of second place, and if he had
finished in second, he would have tied Patrese for second for the year.  Of
course, this assumes Patrese would not get any points for the race, which
he did not -- though admittedly, Senna could not have been sure of that.

                1st  2nd  3rd  4th  5th  6th   Total
 Mansell         9    3    0    0    0    0     108
 Patrese         1    6    2    0    1    0      56
 Schumacher      1    3    4    3    0    0      53
 Senna           3    1    3    0    1    0      50

--
Michael Tanenblatt
tanenbla@flounder.cs.columbia.edu
From: tvp53202@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Toby Vaughn Padfield)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Drivers' Championships and technology (was: Aus GP Stuff)
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:21:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BxLx7L.Buu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

jeff@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Jeff Freymueller) writes:

>In article <1992Nov11.015014.19547@wes.on.ca> tomh@wes.on.ca (Tom Haapanen) writes:
>>danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones) writes:
>>> So at what point, between where F1 is today and Dave's [automated
>>> technology] F1, does the World Championship of Drivers become bogus?
>>> Or has the point already been reached?
>>
>[ Points about technology/engineering having been taken to the limit
>for the entire history of F1 deleted ]

>>Howeverstraying only slightly from the topi cat hand, what we *have* seen
>>is what might be called excessive domination by a team in the past five or
>>so years.  Indeed, a Drivers' Championship is a little less so when the
>>only way to win is to drive a McLaren-Honda in '89 or a Williams-Renault
>>in '92.  Certainly Mansell is an excellent driver, but how many drivers had
>>a realistic chance to win even a single race?  Not more than ten, even if
>>both Williams pilots dropped out.
>>

>I'll count them (opinion): Mansell, Patrese, Senna, Berger, Schumacher,
>Brundle. Nobody else unless at least the top 5 here dropped out. I'll
>bet the Loti couldn't stay with Brundle if victory was on the line, although
>they sometimes could for 5th place.

	What makes you think this? Is Brundle a better driver when he's
competing for the lead, or Hakkinen a worse one, at that time? That seems to
be a pretty debatable statement, especially in light of Brundle's style-
not balls to the wall, but more controlled. He is a consistent points-paying
positionn runner, because he cruises and takes care of his equipment. If one
of teh Loti were chasing him for the lead, I don't think either would change
his style too much- meaning Brundle would try to protect a lead and Hakk/Herb
would try to attack. Brundle may indeed beat the Loti in head-to-head competi-
tion, but saying he definitely would be better in the lead is strange to me.


TOBY...
From: dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1 Stuff
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:44:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Nov9.234411.8629
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.

Of course it's out of hand.  That's the point.  It'll only stop when drivers
can no longer maintain consciousness during braking or die of blunt force
injury in a corner.  Anyone want to take bets when this happens?

-- 
Dave Fuller		 	All opinions expressed are my own and not
Sequent Computer Systems	those of Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
dafuller@sequent.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Sport Salaries
From: <BWF2@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 12:56:13 EST
Organization: Penn State University

In article <1992Nov10.213949.20753@hubcap.clemson.edu>, csroach@eng.clemson.edu
(Shane Roach) says:

>From article <184202@pyramid.pyramid.com>, by danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com
>(Dan Jones):
>>
>> I saw most of this list over the weekend on a local BayArea news report (I
>> would name them if I could remember which one).  They listed 1,2,5-10, but
>> skiped our friends.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> If any locals can recall the channel, please post.  What's its all about
>> are the local broadcasters embarrassed they can't pronounce Ayrton or
>> Mansell?

>There was a quick mention of this on the 11 pm news on the local ABC affiliate
>(WLOS 13, Asheville, NC).  They showed pictures of Jordan, Holyfield, Senna,
>Nicklaus, and Agassi.  But poor befuddled Darcel Grimes said this: "Tops on
>the list were Jordan, Holyfield, (pauses as Senna's face flashes up) and
>others
>included were Nicklaus and Agassi."  This from the same station whose sports
>chief, in telling of the Senna-Prost@Suzuka.90 incident showed how rarely he
>mentioned these men by calling them "Eye-airton Seena and Elaine Proest".
>Sad sad sad.


>Shane Roach
>csroach@eng.clemson.edu

       My wife likes this show called Crook and Chase(country music)
       and they also mentioned the list. When they got to Senna's name
       the lady pronounced it AR (like "are") TUN Senna. I was rolling.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport,alt.autos.antique
From: Rich.Rubel@launchpad.unc.edu (Rich Rubel)
Subject: '65 Vette convertible wanted
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:49:57 GMT


Ultimate would be maroon with side pipes (roadster).  Condition doesn't
matter, but price is a small concern- no $30k frame-off restored's please.
Also willing to consider 62's and 63's.
Thanks.
[RICHR]
<Please send mail either to here OR to rrr@ideas.com>

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: rons@soul.tv.tek.com (Ron Selberg)
Subject: Re: Corvette Turbos
Organization: Tektronix TV Products
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 17:17:28 GMT

Calloway sold a twin turbo Vette through the Chevy dealer. I don't think
there were alot built and the option cost $20k. Fast car though and I believe
it came with a GM warranty.
These are no longer being produced as Calloway is now concentrating on 
modified LT1's and ZR1's. Availability?
Ron
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:45:11 EST
From: Jonathan Swaby <JFS10@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: More Sauber Tests at Barcelona
 <1ddqmqINN3g1@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <184158@pyramid.pyramid.com>
 <BxG94u.Cs7@fulcrum.co.uk>

I don't think Ferraris problems at the end of the season were the chassis, but
the engine. For a while know people have been talking about the lack of power
from the motor. They said on the tube that in the last two races the Ferraris
were among the slowest when it came to straight line speed. I was suggested
that the engines not be used next year.

Jonathan Swaby
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe)
Subject: Toyota signs Fangio & Jones for '93
Organization: nCUBE Computers, Beaverton, Oregon, U.S.A.
Distribution: y
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:26:55 GMT

The Toyota/AAR team has re-signed JM Fangio II and PJ Jones
for another season in IMSA GTP.  

Wonder who the competition will be?

-cball-

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti)
Subject: Re: Senna's an ass!
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 14:27:13 GMT

In article <433@rehab1.UUCP>, dans@rehab1.UUCP (Dan Schein) writes
on the Senna-Mansell incident:
|> What an ass! Based on the final race accidents that Senna has
|> been involved in the last few years, I tend to think 'he took
|> Nigel out'! Why not? He had nothing to lose, it seems that unless
|> Senna had some kind of a failure (brakes?) he was just driving
|> over his head.

The way I see it, there are two possibilities:
1) Senna punted Mansell off on purpose.  Considering Senna's track
   record, I have to agree with Dan that this is (unfortunately)
   a very real possibility.
2) Senna made a stupid mistake.  This would be extremely embarrassing,
   considering how he intimidated Schumacher for his taking the
   inside line at Magny Cours and bumping into Senna.  (Btw: I'm
   convinced that Senna could have avoided that accident but just
   didn't give a damn.)

Either way, Dan Schein's subject line seems to hit the nail right
on its head.
   
-- 
Robert Marti                    |  Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60
Informationssysteme             |  FAX:      +41 1 262 39 73
ETH-Zentrum                     |  E-Mail:   marti@inf.ethz.ch
CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland     |
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: koopman@fys.ruu.nl (Rob Koopman)
Subject: Re:>> F1 myths: ABS and 'autogassing'
Organization: Physics Department, University of Utrecht, The Netherlands
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 10:46:38 GMT

In response to previous letters I shall be more specific on my
references:
1) Issue 27, june 30  cover story : Electronic brakes  (UZ)
2)       39, sept 22              : Williams FW 15     (PH)
The other references are not cover stories, tracing them takes more
time, if necessary I'll send them through e-mail.

The explanation of all this confusion is rather trivial in my view. In
most articles, the continuously variable brakle bias system is on
occasion referred to as ABS, however at least once per interview it is
explained that this this designation is actually I N C O R R E C T. The
arguments for this have been reproduced in my article. 

It seems natural to me that after five months of interviews, PH and UZ ceased
repeating this argument, especially when talking to  interviewers with
limited knowledge of F1 technology. After all, it is now common usage to
refer to current electronic suspension systems as 'active', which is an
insult to Lotus' 1987 project. Current systems merely deserve to be
referred to as semi-active, but the term 'active' has simply "eroded"
(Tyrrell's  'active' is the worst example). 

I strongly condemn any speculations on Patrick Heads integrity. I hope
the Newsnet part of this discussion has reached an end, I am always
prepared to expand on this by e-mail.

R.M. Koopman
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: ronf@tesla.esd.sgi.com (Ron Fischer)
Subject: Ferrari club of NoCal (Ferrari owners)
Reply-To: ronf@esd.sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Entry Systems Division
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 19:48:22 GMT

Would someone email to me the phone number and address of the
Ferrari club of Northern California?

Also, if someone out there is a proud Ferrari owner I'd like
to hear about their ownership experience.

Thanks,
ron.f();