HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Knitting 
From: bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Jennifer Geard)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 21:58:31 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Lethargy Inc.


  > This same book also tells gloves were not made by knitting, they were sewn
  > by needle. Needle knitting- or sewing, as we should call it- was common
  > way to make stretch garments in the early Middle-Ages....
  > Needle sewing is done sewing the yarn fast on certain ways 
  > - I know seven different ways to do it. Mittens made by this technique
  > are the warmest possible ones I know. The Vikings used them already.
  > They are quick to made, but very difficult to learn.

Aha!  That book discusses "nalebinding", explaining why it is often difficult 
to identify whether nalebinding or knitting was the technique used to 
construct an article.  Nalebinding seems to be the basic technique used for 
Viking mittens and such, is much more appropriate for many of our earlyish 
SCA persona than knitting, and I can't find instructions on how to do it!  
The article in question gives on diagram of the path of the yarn in one form 
of nalebinding (and doesn't look too hard to replicate) but I gather there's 
a whole realm of techniques out there. 

So, good gentle, do you know of a source for these techniques which is 
available to someone living in far-off lands who prefers to read in English?  
I could probably handle a couple of the Scandinavian languages, however 
Finnish, in all its Finno-Ugric splendour, is not one of them. 

Pagan le Chaunster
________________________________________________________________________
Jennifer Geard                         bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz
Christchurch, New Zealand
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: lharriesj@cc.curtin.edu.au
Subject: Welsh garb (again!)
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 03:42:43 GMT

Greetings from Ceridwen!

Thanks to all those who helped out with the Kingdom awards.  A personal query
this time.  I enjoy floating around as a 12th century "Welshperson" but am
finding garb documentation (especially primary sources) a bit thin on the
ground - it doesn't help to be living in an isolated Antipodean city.  I would
be most grateful for any suggestions, to this forum or privately.

Best to you and yours, Ceridwen
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ceridwen ferch Dafydd ap Cradog, Abertridwr      | Welsh isn't hard to
(Jennifer Harries, Perth, Western Australia)     | pronounce!  Until you
lharriesj@cc.curtin.edu.au                       | see it written down..... 
+ 61 9 351 7283  A/H: + 61 9 451 5884            | - CFDAC (That's me!)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Drachenwald Kingdom ideas
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 18:13:43 GMT

In article <199301031829.AA23940@meryl.csd.uu.se> vader@meryl.csd.uu.se ("]ke Eldberg") writes:
>Gwenllian:
>
>>I know I should wait for Tibor before I open my mouth, but I was 95% 
>>certain that Corpora specifies 2 reigns per year.
>
>If I am not misinformed, the West has always had 3 reigns per year.
>I have not found anything in the Organizational Handbook about the
>length of reigns.

There is nothing in Corpora on the subject.  The West has had 3 reigns
a year since before there was a Corporation.  More recently, the
Western Princinpality of Lochac has shifted to 3 reigns a year.  It
will be interesting to see if they maintain the custom when (in a few
years--possibly very few) the become a kingdom. 

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |            You!
510-823-5447                 |    Out of the Gene Pool!
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,rec.sport.fencing
From: shick@europa.eng.gtefsd.com (steve hick)
Subject: Renaissance Fencing Video
Keywords: sca fencing, stage fencing
Reply-To: shick@europa.eng.gtefsd.com (steve hick)
Organization: GTE Contel Federal Systems
X-Newsreader: InterCon TCP/Connect II 1.1b31
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 12:05:01 GMT

Greetings unto the Rialto.
 

In <1iul8mINN852@mirror.digex.com> Corun MacAnndra  asks:

>Has anyone seen a video entitled _The Blow by Blow Guide to Swordfighting
>in the Rennaissance Style_? The presenter is Mike Loades, and he is billed
>as a combat master at several drama schools in London. The ad I saw claims
>to teach one to fight with rapier and cloak, target and buckler (target has
>me a bit confused and I can't help but wonder if targe was meant instead).
>In my area there is a large following of fencers recreating the Italian
>Rennaissance style, and I am considering dusting off the masque and foil.
>This video sounds good, but I'd like to hear a review of it from fencers
>before spending the money.

I haven't seen it, but one of the fencers in OUR area (Njal/Ken Reed) has.  
He says it's ok, but mixes the techniques of many different 
schools/proponents.  It apparently teaches a combined form, but whether pure 
Italian or Italian and Spanish I don't know yet.  I am picking up a copy (I 
think) from Ken Trottman for 15 L.

>As an aside, for those interested in increasing their libraries, _Sword
>and Masque_ by Julius Palffy-Alpar is a rather good book on fencing. It
>has a section devoted to theatrical fencing, and this covers some of the
>techniques one would not encounter in a standard modern fencing text, these
>usually discussing formal competition fencing, that could be applicable to
>SCA/Rennaissance fencing.

I wasn't terribly impressed by Palffy-Alpar.  He created a lot of confusion 
for me, citing Munzio instead of Moncio as the first Italian manual published 
(neither is right, though, it's Monte).  I thought William Hobbs' book far 
more useful.

ST

Angelo, Sydney ; "The Man Who Taught Leonardo Darts, Pietro Monte and His 
'Lost' Fencing Manual"; Antiq. J. 1989

Hobbs, William; Stage combat : "the action to the word" ;London : Barrie & 
Jenkins, 1980 

 





Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: antipathy to fencing
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 23:10:44 GMT

Graydon writes:
  My feeling about this is that SCA fencing has exactly the same problem
  SCA archery does; it is a modern activity in funny clothes.

It would be interesting, Graydon, if you would compare and contrast
SCA fencing with SCA fighting, in reference to say, sport fencing
and Kendo.

Certainly, both sports involve wearing safety equipment that is
not period in style and construction, much of which is "doctored"
to appear medievalish, or is hidden.  Both use highly modified
weapons, that have no real period analogues.  In both cases we
use overseers and safety officers in ways that would not have
occured in period (a herald as a tournament judge in period is
just not the same as a marshal in our tournaments).

In many ways, SCA fence as I've experienced it, is closer to a
period model than SCA fighting.  This may be that, being so late
period, we do have many good manuscripts and illustrations that
we can imitate.  It certainly appears that literate means were not
used to teach swordplay in period, or that none of the European
written works survive.

You know more about fighting, and period weapon's use than I,
Graydon.  I'd like your feedback.  It may be true that medieval
swordwork has no modern sport analogue.  But as practiced, it's
hardly a "more period" expression of sport than SCA Rapier combat,
in my opinion.

The only argument that I've ever seen, that felt as if it held
water (and I used to hold it, too), was that Rapier combat,
even where period, was a Renaissance form of expression, rather
than a medieval one. [1]  This may be true.  But the rules of the SCA,
and the customs, hardly allow us to rule out Renaissance behavior
at this late date.

	Tibor
---------
[1] When explaining the two types of combat to people new to the SCA,
    or interested, I often describe them as "Medieval combat" and
    "Renaissance combat".  It seems to resonate well with people.
    Comments?
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cearr@cwis.unomaha.edu (Jesse C. Neese)
Subject: Re: Pavel Read This!!!
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
     Ha!  I've found you.  People I know, from my own area.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:02:23 GMT

                          HI

                                  CEARR MACBRENDAN
                               Lonely Tower, Calontir
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: recreating the middle ages
Date: 11 Jan 1993 14:58:34 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <9301091427.aa18909@mc.lcs.mit.edu> SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon) writes:
>
>For instance, being a proper Hundred Year's archer would involve (to stick
>to the typical) a tendency to loot anything not bolted down, get roaring
>drunk (if possible), wench indiscriminately, and sometimes shoot at heralds.

So how is that different from anything we do in the SCA today? ;-) (smileys
for the humour impaired)

In service,
Corun the Often Irreverent


-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    |
  Dark Horde by birth  |	Avid readers make novel lovers.
    Moritu by choice   |
From: Blackwolf@f7.n382.z1.fidonet.org (Blackwolf)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: buying chainmail link
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1993 14:13:04 -0500

heard similar ... i make the stuff for resale to a specialty market 
(exotic dancers, goths, the b&d crowd, etc ..) and am rather quality 
conscious myself.  currently looking for a *reliable* source of bulk, pre-cut
(not clipped) rings to help speed up the production process so that i can get
more of the commission backlog off the bench and converted into flaxscript
(saveing my sheckles for a gas burn-out oven and a industrial size melting kiln
for my bronze-work)
 
bw
    - i will *not* be a network administrator for the rest of my 
life, i do *not* enjoy wearing a target on my back full time.
 



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: awarding awards 
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:22:35 GMT

Peregrine Illuminator, paraphrased:
  [ It's not very period, or very nice, to be handed an award scroll
    in a mundane context, when you couldn't be present at court to
    receive it.  Wouldn't it be better if the local Baron or
    Baroness were delegated, even if it made local courts longer? ]

Aryk is quite right, if a little acerbic.  This discussion has been
had before, and usually devolves into "how do we do this if the remote
group has no ruling noble", which in turn devolves into "the
ruling noble rules of the SCA are not period" which begets thousands
of opinions as to how to improve things.

No one questions the fundamental point, that it would be better to
have local ruling nobles do the trick.  I'd love to see reasoned
arguments to the contrary, however.

I got my AoA in the mail...  Of course I had moved from Carolingia
to Southkeep (Boston MA to Miami FL) on short notice...

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cassie@worf.nas.nasa.gov (Cassandra L. Baldassano)
Subject: Re: awarding awards 
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 23:25:33 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.194718.4746@epas.toronto.edu>, nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan12.180026.12092@news.stolaf.edu> moore@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Michael Moore) writes:
|> 
|> Get rid of the "SURPRISE!" factor.  Phone the guy up in advance, ask
|> him if he can make it, tell him why, and if he can't, then you can
|> just reschedule it.  If he can, then he can also tell his friends,
|> maybe lay in some extra beer for a party afterwards, maybe have a gift
|> ready in return...

For many peerage awards that I know of are given in the West, this is the
case. I was very disappointed when I missed Sebastian von Baden being knighted
last 12th night. When he knew he was going to become a Pelican at June Crown,
he came up to the household and told us that we should be in court. I am glad
I didn't miss that as well.

|> The surprise award thing was cute the first few thousand times, but
|> it's really gotten old.  And it really isn't worth the trouble and
|> headache just so you can go around beforehand and say "you really
|> ought to be in court tonight...no special reason", and go around
|> afterwards and say "you should have seen the look on her face!"

If the person is not able to be at the event, then maybe the award should
be delayed. But receiving an award (even if its an AoA) can be rather
special to a person. I will never get tired of seeing the look of surprise
in a person's eyes. (You should have seen Duchess Amanda Edwin when she got her 
Pel. at this past 12th night.) You don't have to say "no special reason", make
up a little white lie. I did this when a member of my household was to receive
an AoA, and this was her last event in the West. 

|> > In service to the servants of the Dream,
|> 
|> In service to those in service to the servants of the Dream...
|> 
|> Aryk "Service with a Smile and a Stab" Nusbacher
|> 
Now, If I have all these people in service to me, where are they when
the dishes need to be done? :) :) :) :)

(as always)
Euriol of Lothian
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: Happenings in the Mists
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 93 20:55:45 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1993Jan4.163821.26443@advtech.uswest.com> Guy Wells <guyw@uswest.com> writes:
>The funny thing about this job is the requirement to travel everywhere.
>
>Anyhow, I have just learned that I will be lucky enough to spend time in
>what I believe is the Province of the Southern Shores (San Jose,
>Calif.). I will be there from the 10th to the 13th of January (one week
>from now). 
>
>Will any fighter practices happen during these days, I guess anywhere in
>the Principality of the Mists, or San Jose specifically? I always love
>to freak out the airline travel desks by checking my armor, ad nauseum.

Yes, just make sure the bags are under 70$ or you will get ripped
off badly on an excess baggage charge. Thats 70 pounds, btw.

>BTW, having the opportunity to meet and face gentles throughout the
>known world has been a pleasure. Last month was Ansteorra, this month,
>hopefully, the West!

Yeah, I've been to Middle and Madrone here in An Tir by air, it's
the only way tp travel, if you've got the money.

Come up to Montengarde some time, practice is thursday...

Carolus Malvoix
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cctimar@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Charles the clerk)
Subject: Re: Heraldric Questions...
Organization: Shire of Glaedenfeld
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 08:55:34 GMT

To all upon the Rialto doth Charles the clerk send his greetings!

Parlan MacGillievray writeth:
> 
> Then, I must ask, why is it that we gentle people of the Rialto
> give words with each other with a harshness and inflexability
> equal to two alley cats battling for the smallest amount of
> territory?  Must we tear down our fellows, to which we have so
> *much* in common, because thay disagree or are less informed?

This suggestion would require less typing from Arval, Tadhg, Tibor, and
the others involved, and also be easier on the rest of us.

Once a week, each of these gentles might post a message stating, "I
disagree with everything that the following have posted in the past week:"
and then list all the appropriate gentles.  Indeed, they might include
this as a postscript to a message with some content.

Please send flames to me personally, the rest of the Rialto doesn't want
to see them.  (I don't, either, but I concede that that is the penalty for
obnoxious remarks like this.)
--
    -- Charles, student, in Glaedenfeld, Meridies
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: 71431.167@compuserve.COM (REED E HARRIG)
Subject: Eric at Candlemas
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 13:41:34 GMT

Greetings unto Morana Revel from Palymar,

Please contact me thru e-mail or at (317) 773-1189.  I would be happy
to help you with your problem and I will be at that same event.

I remain in Service,

-Palymar


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Role of Royalty (was Re: Period calendar...)
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1993 22:47:20 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!

Dennis O'Connor wrote:

> Except that I feel the primary duties of the Monarchs is to get around,
> visit their domain, see that their Kingdom is healthy in every corner of
> it.

And he answered a suggestions that the same number of visits could be
spread over a longer reign:

> I think that would make the visits to rare...  As to wallets, Royal
> travel to each of their subdomains once per reign ought to be subsidized.

Realize that you assuming that the royalty should continue to have the same
range of duties and powers.  William's central point was that we should
reduce the focus of power and ceremony on the royalty by distributing to
other people, too.  Thus, every branch would no longer expect to be visited
by the royalty so frequently since they would receive the same services
from other people.  I think it would be kind of neat to live in a barony,
be visited by our count once or twice each year, and host a royal progress
nly once in several years; I think it might encourage people to make more
of the opportunity to have a grand ceremony for the royalty if it didn't
happen so often.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1993 23:01:49

    Iain Odlin wrote:

 IO> > I know of no evidence that the Normans used "longships", nasty or
 IO> > otherwise, nor that they were particularly fond of axes. Moreach, you
 IO> > watch too many movies....

 IO>   I don't suppose the Bayeaux Tapestry counts in your book?  Seems the
 IO>   Normans were quite fond of longships.

 Depends on what you mean by "longships". What is shown in the Bayeaux
 Tapestry is not what most people (even in the SCA) think of when they
 think of "Norse longships". And the "axes" (Remember? Moreach mentioned
 "axes") in the Bayeaux tapestry are more often wielded by the English than
 the Normans, who had a distressing tendency to prefer lances and swords.

 IO>   Could we all be a bit less quick with the accusations, please?

 Sorry, didn't know that watching movies was something to be ashamed of.
 (And people complain that *I* don't have a sense of humor...!) 

 (Could we be a little less hypersensitive when we are not the one
 addressed with the comment? Moreach, who wrote the original comment, would
 have standing to complain - not that I'd care, but she'd have standing;
 you, on the other hand, have nothing ... other than, perhaps, a long
 nose.)
    Tadhg

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Name
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1993 21:02:34

 L> lo'
 L>    Could some one please define "Rialto"?   Sorry, had to ask.

Name of the "main drag" in Venice.

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: brandon@gauss.math.brown.edu (Joshua Brandon)
Subject: Re: Period Calendar Wanted
Organization: Brown University Mathematics Department
	<BRANDON.93Jan2141942@gauss.math.brown.edu>
	<kleber.726004948@husc.harvard.edu> <fy72##r@rpi.edu>
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:07:42 GMT

Alison writeth:
>I am dead certain that the line on a sundial will *not* fall on a single
>line at sunrise throughout the year. 

>Why? Because the earliest "sundials" (like Stonehenge, the Serpent Mound here
>in the US, etc, etc.) were made not to tell time of day, but time of year. 
>Strategically placed holes/slits etc. were positioned so that the light from
>the sun at sunrise would fall in an alcove/bisect a spiral carved in rock/
>be contaoined completely within a curve/or whatever. This would simply be
>impossible if the sunrise location did not move.

Hmmmm.  This is indeed true.  However, I am also sure that a Roman-type
sundial works the way I described before, namely that it worked throughout
the year with the same set of markings.  I think it has something to do
with the angle of the diagonal side of the gnomon being adjusted for
latitude.  It may be that the shadow of the straight side varies by time of
year but not the shadow of the angled side....?

			---Simon
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions... 
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1993 23:39:38

    Pagan le Chaunster wrote:
 JG> - And finally (for now, and this one *is* aimed at Tadhg) how does one
 JG> pronounce "Tadhg"?  I'm sick of gargling each time I refer to you. ]-)
 JG> The nearest I can guess is "Thaddy", which seemed influenced by the
 JG> later link made between this name and Thad(d)eus.

 Pronouncing it like the first syllable in "tiger" is acceptable. The
 Completely Accurate Pronunciation has two barely separated syllables,
 approximately "tie-ug" ("tie" as in what goes around your neck, and "ug"
 as in what Arval says whenever he sees one of my messages...)

    Tadhg, Obelisk


    "Have you no word of Irish from that school of yours?" -- Bull McCabe
 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: antipathy to fencing
Date: 13 Jan 93 02:52:15 GMT
	<1993Jan10.120834.7565@news.cs.indiana.edu> <470-JNEWS-2.1@smylex.UUCP>
	<1993Jan12.191324.1563@epas.toronto.edu>
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.intel.com
In-reply-to: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca's message of Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:13:24 GMT


nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher) writes:
] ... to the educated eye, the horse and the cow are easily distinguished.

Unless you're a herald, to whom all 4-legged creatures are the same. :-)
--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
From: "jeff zeitlin" <jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: period calendars
Date: 11 Jan 93 04:42:53 EST
Reply-To: "jeff zeitlin" <jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Executive Networks Information

  The detailed period calendar info recently posted is quite
  interesting, but clearly oriented (and understandably so) towards a
  Christian culture.  Can Yaakov (or anyone else who has studied
  period Judaism and/or Islam) provide similar information those
  religions?  Such information would be appreciated by one who is
  Jewish (both in and out of person), but who has no ideas as to how
  to go about locating this information...

  Yosef ben Lazar

  J/
  jeff.zeitlin@execnet.com

 * QMPro 1.0   * A mind is a terrible thing to close...
--
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Newsgroups: rec.org.sca