From: davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Arab Jews are ARABS
Date: 5 Oct 92 09:06:00 GMT
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology

In article <1992Oct5.003953.1@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu> bgdv706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Noam Tractinsky) writes:
>In article <1992Oct4.173607.3799@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:
>
>			[....]
>
>>      First of all, you know that there are many privileges tied with the
>> military service in which only Jews serve, (in addition to the minorty group
>> the Druze).  Therefore, the Arabs do not have the chance of getting many
>> priviliges and services which require, as one of its conditions, the
>> completion of military service.  Thus Arabs do not get many of those Housing
>> loans, education scholarships, social security, tax breaks, etc...  And even
>> those Druze who serve, usually end up in almost the same diprivation of such
>> priviliges because they are considered minorty group, despite their military
>> service.
>
>
>	You've raised an important issue. The current arrangement
>	according to which Israeli Arabs are not required to serve
>	in the military serve both Jews and Arabs quite well. The
>	Arabs get the privilege of not wasting three of their best
>	years and not having to face a very difficult conscience
>	conflict. The Jews, on the other hand, don't have to deal
>	with suspected loyalty in their most sensitive organization
>	and save the money associated with those privileges. A propo,
>	to the best of my knowledge there are some Arab _volunteers_
>	in the IDF (that is, the road is not hermetically closed).
>
>	The problem is that both the Jewish and Arab establishments
>	seem to be quite satisfied with the status quo. While it is
>	understandable why there should not be a compulsory military
>	service for Israeli Arabs, I am not aware of any serious
>	attempts (from either side) to find an alternative to this
>	problems. The most salient alternative that comes to mind
>	is the idea of "national service" in which Arabs will serve
>	3 years as teachers, builders, paramedics, etc., either in
>	Arab settlements or in the country at large. Upon completing
>	their service they'll be granted all the privileges of those
>	who served in the military.
>
>	As I said, I'm not aware of any serious attempt at such a
>	solution, which makes me suspicious about the true motives
>	of both sides. As long as such a solution remains a far
>	fetched dream, I can only tell you that those who spend their
>	best years in a military service, then considerable period of
>	time in the reserves service, and who are required to risk
>	their lives for some agency (the state),  deserve to get
>	something back from this agency (i.e., the privileges you're
>	talking about). As to those who didn't serve, believe me,
>	they have much more privileges built into their non-service.	

    Well, it seems that the Arabs want to eat the cake and preserve it
    whole. That often doesn't work in real life.
 
>>      Also, there are certain areas in Israel where non-Jews are not allowed,
>> BY LAW, to live there.  Such as the village of CARMIEL, where non-Jews are not
>> allowed to live there nor are they allowed TO OWN A BUSINESS (this is the so
>> called Israeli DEMOCRACY !!!!).  Not only that, now that village have
>> incorporated the land of three neighboring ARAB villages (in an effort to make
>> the entire area PURE JEWISH) and are forcing the Arab inhabitants out of their
>> villages.  One of these Arab villages is called Rumayya and their case is still
>> hanging in the Israeli supreme court (I think it is called the Supreme court).
>
>
>	I think you are mixing here half truths and complete lies. BTW,
>	if there's such a law, why are the villagers trying to get the
>	court's remedy? Can the court rule against the law?

  He refers to incidents where Jewish residents of Carmiel protested
  the move of Arabs into their town. This was widely condemned in the 
  press. It also happened to New immigrants from Ethiopia and Russia
  too, I guess this is just a show of Israeli Sabre spikes :-)

>
>
>>      And what about the Kiputzim,  in which Arabs were not allowed, by law, to
>> becaome members.  But then when the government noticed that many kiputzim were
>> employing Arabs, as cheap labor, it (the ISRAELI GOVERNMENT) passed a law which
>> prohibits even employing Arabs.  And you talk about the so called Israeli
>> Democracy.
>
>
>	This is pure fantasy. Complete non-sense. However, if this were
>	true, I'd attribute such a law to the government's bashing of
>	the kibutzim even more than to its bashing of Arabs {:-)

  There's no doubt that the Kibbuzim are a very closed society and they
  try to keep it homogenous. They are doing it to Jews too, and were
  considered arrogant and snobs by other Israelis. That is until they 
  came to the government begging for mercy about their astronomical
  debts. That's why many Israeli sneer at aiding the Kibbuzim althaugh
  they are very productive part of society.

>
>>      And finally, what about all those special rights and priviliges that are
>> offered ONLY to the new comers to Israel.  And guess who the new comers are???
>> Jews, of course.
>
>
>	Sure Jews. Who else would like to go to such an evil country?

  More seriously. Jews are scattered and have been extensively and
cruelly prosecuted all over the world. The state was founded to provide
Jews with a safe Haven. That's why they get better treatment.

  BTW, There was the famous case of the Vietnamese boat people that
  Begin invited - He gave them all these rights for Humanitarian reasons
  The Law of Return is a Humanitarian Law - maybe it's abused but it is
  not racist neither in intent nor application in general.

David.


>
>> Khaled Shammout
>
>Noam


-- 
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  David Ben-Ami (irc: bigdav)      |   "I can resist anything but Temptation"
  s2780369@Techst02.Technion.Ac.Il |       Oscar Wilde
  davidba@Carmel.Technion.Ac.Il  davidba@Moav.Techniona.Ac.Il
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