From: Jeff Sullivan <jas@ISI.EDU>
Subject: Re: Axioms 
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 18:48:29 GMT


Sean writes:
> On Apr 14, 12:42pm, Chris Pearce wrote:
> > > Because, during the same period of history, I can point to at least a dozen
> > > _different_ cosmologies that were believed by different cultures. When
> > > the Copernican cosmology replaced Aristotelian cosmology, that didn't
> > > change how the Inca viewed the universe, nor did it affect the Zulu,
> > > the Inuit, the Japanese, the Chinese, or any other culture that had no
> > > cultural interaction with the Greeks. Whose belief rules, Chris? Does
> > > the Songs of the Australian aborigines change because some group of
> > > people thousands of miles away change their minds?
> > 
> > All of their beliefs rule. The universe actually differs for each culture.
> > Axiom levels can be variable within a cosm.
> 
> They're all occupying the same cosm; there can be only one accurate
> description of the cosm. 

Not according to WEG. ;-)  In Haiti, the Magic Axiom is higher than
most other CE places because the people believe in VooDoo.

> Or does the universe transform itself as you
> travel from culture to culture, the sun, moon and planets doing some
> spastic gavotte to rearrange themselves into the patterns of the new
> culture as you meet them? 

Of course not: Does Cyberware cease to exist when YOU walk into
France?  Does the second sun cease to rise when YOU enter Cairo?  The
local reality exerts its influence on you.  BUT, if there are enough
local folx who believe differently, the local reality reshapes to fit
their belief.  It's the ultimate democracy. ;-)

> And why should _you_ be the magic focus
> that determines the rearrangement of the cosm, instead of some other
> traveller? 

It is NOT a single traveller.  It is the vast majority of people.  No
single traveller can change an axiom, unless she's VERY powerful!

> The Tech axiom of Magna Verita is 26, but the residents
> retain the mindset of the Middle Ages -- while the technology may work
> of itself, the individual does not have the belief and understanding
> to make it work for him.

This is because they are only recently washed by VERY unnatural means.
Normally, axioms increase gradually over time.  This wash caught a lot
of them with their metaphorical pants down.  They'll catch up, but
they've got a lot of learning to do, and plenty of resistance
culturally.  I wouldn't be surprised if most outlying areas of MV have
their tech axions lowered a bit when the locals' belief starts
pressuring it down.  On the other hand, if Malreux acts fast enough,
showering the area with CyberPriests, they won't be able to refuse to
believe it, and it'll stabilize.

Sean, it seems (as others have said) that you are trying to apply YOUR
understanding of how reality does/should work to the Torg cosmverse.
Why?  They are explicitly saying that THIS place looks like us, but
the world(s) is(are) a very different place than we think.  Noite:
DIFFERENT THAN WE THINK.

get with the genre! ;-)


jas
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg