HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Subject: Re: Your own words, of course != bigot
Reply-To: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 10:44:40 GMT


In a previous article, jpsb@NeoSoft.com (Jim Shirreffs) says:
>
>I'm tired of arguments, so I will not bore you with things you have 
>probably already heard. But I do have a question. Do you *really* 
>believe that the civil rights analogy holds in the case of homosexuals?
>I want to know this so I tell can if you are simply being argumentitive or
>we you are stating beliefs you hold.  I don't think the analogy is
>100% valid. But I am willing to listen. My major problem is that the 
>difference between hets and gays is behavioral, not racial as is 
>the difference between blacks and whites.
>
>jim shirreffs
>

Jim, you keep missing the point.

In the state of Ohio, where I live, I can be denied housing, employment,
the right to visitation of my own children, the right to be protected
from violence by bashers, ect., just because I am openly gay.  It doesn't
matter that I am not now, nor have I been, sexually active for several years,
that fact that I self-identify as "homosexual" is enough.

In most other states in this union it is the same.

It is NOT about behavior, it is about the societal attitude toward me and
people like me, based on what that SAME society has assumed about me, what
I do, how I live, without reguard to whether I accually conform to those
assumptions.

For years it was acceptable to treat blacks as second class citizens
because society viewed them all as one, that one being the societal
attitude based on what society expected of blacks.  It mattered not one
iota that that view was only accurate in a few select cases.  Finally
things changed (not enough), and now, at least in a legal sense, those
assumptions no longer apply.

And right now, persons who identify as homosexual, reguardless of their
behavior, are being subjected to the same system of societal attitude that
kept blacks second class citizens for almost 100 years AFTER the
Emansipation Proclimation.

That is the problem here.

That is not, by the way, to indicate that "homosexual behavior" is in any way
wrong, but to show that even if it were, those who are gay and choose not to
enguage in "homosexual behavior" are subject to the same discrimination as
those who do.  This illustrates that it is not behavior, but perception
of POSSIBLE behavior, that is being discriminated against.

Clear enough?




>
>
-- 
*...your Friendly Neighborhood Atheist  /\/\   These are the REAL  *         
*  ae642@yfn.ysu.edu/Kelley L. Miller  / /__\      Gay 90's!!      *           
*-------------------------------------/____\-----------------------*  
***************** Oxymoron: Freewill Christianity ******************
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: patrick@rio-grande.is.rice.edu (Patrick L Humphrey)
Subject: Re: ...Psst. Ya wanta Merry Christmas??  Just ignore Washington DC!
Organization: The Society for Putting Things On Top Of Other Things
	<PATRICK.92Dec23090603@rio-grande.is.rice.edu>
	<23DEC199214511743@utarlg.uta.edu>
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 23:57:12 GMT

In article <23DEC199214511743@utarlg.uta.edu> b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (General Ignorance) writes:

   In article <PATRICK.92Dec23090603@rio-grande.is.rice.edu>, 
   patrick@rio-grande.is.rice.edu (Patrick L Humphrey) writes...

   Thus taking us beyond-the-bubble.

Would you mind translating that for those of us who don't speak your
particular dialect?

   >In article <23DEC199205384755@utarlg.uta.edu> 
   >b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (General Ignorance) writes:
   > 
   >   There is only one true reality.
   > 
   >   (hint: tain't media)
   > 
   >Could well be, Mr. Tice.  Let us know if you ever find it.
   > 
   >--PLH, it ain't on N. Collins, either


   Simple Mr. Humphrey: I-Thou.
			^^^

Well, if you could enlighten us with just what you're talking about, I'd
have a better idea of how to respond.  

--
Patrick L. Humphrey  (patrick@is.rice.edu)  Rice Networking & Computing Systems
     +1 713 528-3626 at Rice. 776-1541 at home. 667-6554 at Palace Lanes. 

                         You can rn, but you can't hide. 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.bush
From: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari)
Subject: Re: Your own words, of course != bigot
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: usa, world
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 20:42:30 GMT

In article <1993Jan1.194924.6013@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> gsh7w@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Hennessy) writes:
>Yamanari writes:
>#	1.  No matter how you stack the deck, it's deviant.
>#	2.  Our culture seeks to cure those who are deviant from
>#		their behavior.
>
>Playing baseball is deviant. Should we seek to cure baseball players?


	If someone compulsively, constantly plays baseball?  And then
	whines that people wont be nice to them because they don't
	have anything in common (not everyone likes talking about
	baseball, playing baseball, etc, watching baseball)?

	You can bet that such a person would be into a hospital faster
	than you or I could say, "Home run"...

-- 
	Blaming "society" for your problems is like blaming clouds for rain.

         ---  boycott == censorship == closed mindedness == cowardice  ---
		   	     Pain teaches.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,rec.arts.sf.misc
From: kasprj@jec310.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: SF fans show libertarian inclination
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 21:29:17 GMT


 A note to all those who respond to this thread: note that the original
post was crossposted to rec.arts.sf.misc. If your followups to this thread
have nothing to do with science fiction, please remove rec.arts.sf.misc
from the newsgroup line.
 
 Thank you.
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *|          he who refuses to do nonsense  
     \_|          is doomed to talk arithmetic.
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu 
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:66106 alt.activism:19989
From: alvin@stanton.UUCP (The Chipmunk)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.activism
Subject: Re: Libertarianism...
Date: 3 Jan 93 08:35:57 GMT
 <168CE38F.PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu> <1992Dec31.145222.10532@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc
Organization: Foundation for the Increased Wealth of Chipmunks


These two gentlemen:
prs9k@brain.med.virginia.edu (Phil Scarr)
PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu (David Veal)

Have been having another one of those lo-oo-oo-oo-ong discussions.

You two have been going back and forth on this nonsense, and neither one
of you have gotten anywhere.  And neither one of you ever will.  Let me
explain why.

You are talking PAST each other.

You both have been bringing in these "definitions of society" which have
nothing to do with the subject at hand ... ie, what you're trying to
convince each other of.

OK, humans are "part of society".  Fine.  That's true.

OK, society does nothing without individual action.  Great.  That's
wonderful.

BOTH of you are "right."  100%.

But it doesn't answer the fundamental question:

In being a human who is part of a society who "programs" the society
whilst being "programmed by" the society, how do you answer the issue of
HOW MUCH CONTROL DOES ONE HUMAN BEING HAVE OVER ANOTHER?

The Libertarian answer to that is simple: NO control, via threat of
initiation of force.  Ie, you can exercise your "free will," or you can
be "one of the boys," but nobody's going to bob you on the head to
influence your decision.

Now you tell me what "lupine children" has got to do with that?

Perhaps you can find societies, such as Iran, where their answer is ALL
the control that ALLAH, or the Ayatollah, sees fit to inflict.  Then
that brings up another fundamental question: HOW SUCCESSFUL WILL THEY
BE, as a sub-species of Humanity, IN THE LONG RUN?

Western Freedom is a relatively new experiment in the History of Man.
It's proven so far to be a rave hit.  Future history may prove me wrong,
but I think we're going to outlast the Ayatollah.

== The Chipmunk
INTERNET:alvin@stanton.cts.com
Churchill's Commentary on Man:
    Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the
    time he will pick himself up and continue on.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: nbh@netcom.com (N.B. Hedd)
Subject: Another Bonus Question
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 03:06:23 GMT

Q: What is the difference between a rich white male who steals from
   old people and a lower class black man who does the same thing?
A: The necktie. (Alternative answer: One goes to jail.)
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Feinstein '94
Clinton/Gore '96
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,soc.motss,alt.sex
From: endora@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Ken McCamish)
Subject: Re: pounding the "10%" figure into the ground: Nature, 12/3/92
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 01:16:12 GMT

In article <13718@optilink.COM> manley@optilink.COM (Terry Manley) writes:
>In article <168C7D5B8.PKJAMES@UKCC.UKY.EDU> PKJAMES@UKCC.UKY.EDU writes:
>>In article <Bzrn5n.rx@exnet.co.uk> s0xjg@exnet.co.uk (Xavier Gallagher) writes:
>
>>>ps. I am sorry to break my promise so soon but I can't allow this jerk
>>I wish I could have said what you said.   I should have known by the
>>the USEnet because of it's complete openess-it's like a "freedom wall"
>>where everyone can go, BUT that doesn't mean we have to agree and I will
>>let you know that if that fucking Clayton ever comes here to KY and
>>starts that bullshit-he better be bringing body guards.   He can say
>>stuff like I'm crazy- I think he's the crazy one, and if he say's it to
>>my face he's just damn suicidal.                Paul  (...xavier only
>
>I'm glad you're keeping the tradition of the South alive.
>Beat on anyone you don't like.  Kill them if you think
>you can get away with it.

Honey, the South does NOT have a monopoly on that sort of thing.  Look
around Yankeeland and you'll see it.  Northerners just aren't as likely
to be open about such ancient practices.

>Are you sure you don't put on white robes with peaked hats and go out
>for a little fun?  Dave (...paul only idiots like you from KY would
>want to try and beat-up clayton cramer...smile) 
>DAVE MANLEY (manley@optilink.com)

What the *hell* does being from Kentucky have to do with any of this?
That is my point.  Otherwise, I agree with you totally.  Just please
don't start some sort of geographical stereotyping thing on the net.
There are enough wars going on as it is.

               /\   
-Ken McCamish /__\, and only he.
               
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Blame not thyself; Cry     |    "Yes, we're all | "Whew! That was a
witch!  - Samantha Stevens  | different! "       |  little heart-stopper
                            |"I'm not"  "Shh!"   | for Auntie Elmira!" -
                            |-Monty Python       | - Elmira Duff of TTA
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------



Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.bush
From: john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore)
Subject: Re: Term for blacks has changed (The true reason)
Reply-To: john@anasazi.com
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Arizona USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 01:26:46 GMT

Keywords: 

In article <1992Dec23.155716.26985@kadsma.kodak.com> pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek) writes:
]
]One thing bothers me about 'African-American': there is a large black
]population that is not African in its ancestry. Is there no PC way
]to refer to them, or do they have to settle for the (now non-PC) 'black'?

Consider the followings:
  Is a North African Arab an "African American?"
  Is Nelson Mandela an "African American?"
  How can someone whose ancestors have lived here for hundreds of years
    be any form of hyphenated American?

I claim that the term was invented by the politically correct 
(deconstructionist) crowd in order to refer to destroy the term "American" and 
as part of a campaign to get all of us to think of ourselves by our racial or 
ethnic or sexual preference groupings. This serves to deligitimatize the concept
of a melting pot; to better the environment for socialist thinking by
encouraging people to think in terms of group membership (African-American,
Rich, Christian, Homeless, etc) as opposed to in terms of individual rights; to 
emphasize the "oppression" of black people; and, to increase stress in 
American society, so as to lead to an eventual restructuring of it in a 
"politically correct" way. THIS is where the terminology change comes from. 

Oh, another purpose for terminology change is so one can determine where in 
the radical hierarchy one is.... the sooner one starts using the new term, the 
closer to the font of knowlege one must be. This is important to those who
are into radical chic.  The ultimate in radical chic is to be one who
originates a terminology change (usually one must be a University
professor to achieve this pinnacle of intellectual achievement).

-- 
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253  (602-951-9326)
john@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
       - - My gun is safer than Ted Kennedy's car - -
 - - - "It is better to be judged by twelve, than carried by six." - - -
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Cuba : Is an embargo still necessary?
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: The Bates Motel
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 17:52:45 GMT

d40937@info.polymtl.ca (Jean Yves Desbiens) writes:

>With the demise of communism and the now non-existent support
>of Russia to its former ally, what is the reason, if any,
>behind the continuing embargo of Cuba.

Ssshhhh!!!  Don't you realize that Canadian companies and subsidiaries
of American firms sell products to Cuba?  Xerox Canada's office back in
my home town of Winnipeg gets 20% of its income from them ...

It's all right with me if the Cubans overthrow Castro & Co. if that's
what they want to do ... but in general, we don't have a grudge with
Cuba, per se, up in Canada.

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@cunixd.cc.columbia.EDU 		Support NAFTA
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			 Eat Mexican  (El Teddy's ad)
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:65230 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:10649 alt.politics.bush:14888
From: burkhardt@NEBULA.SSD.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM (Spike Burkhardt)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: Space program necessary
Date: 23 Dec 92 15:53:07 GMT
Reply-To: burkhardt@NEBULA.SSD.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Distribution: usa
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale, California

In article <1992Dec23.002755.20450@pmafire.inel.gov>, cdm@pmafire.inel.gov (Dale Cook) writes:
>In article <1992Dec22.190905.13966@kadsma.kodak.com> pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec22.024947.4840@news.stolaf.edu> kamilewi@lars.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Alex Kamilewicz) writes:
>>>
>>>It's a well-documented fact that most of Japanese technology originated in 
>>>the U.S.  They just produced it better.
>>>
>>
>>Is that why Japanese companies are now the leading applicants for U.S.
>>patents?
>>
>>Your statement was true at one time, but not anymore. We are being beaten
>>in every phase of the game, from research to development to production.
>>Only in retail distribution are we still better than Japan.
>>
>
>An interesting footnote:  a colleague of mine was replacing the CPU board
>on our SGI system last night.  He just mentioned to me a few minutes ago
>that there were more chips on the board from US companies than from
>anywhere else.  The fat lady hasn't sung yet.  (Of course, this does
>NOT mean that the chips were *manufactured* in the US).
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>....Dale Cook    "I don't much care how a man prays -- there's plenty of
>                 room in hell for all of us."  --- "Mad Jack" Duncan
>The opinions are mine only (i.e., they are NOT my employer's)
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the paragraph about being beaten in "every phase of the game, from research"
I would disagree with that.  Take notice of who's doing all the developement
work for the: space station, gravity probe B, high technology flight, fusion
reactors, medicines...  I just don't see it coming out of Japan except for
HDTV.  Perhaps the Japanese are hoping that HDTV will cause R&D scientists
to become high tech couch potatoes :-))

Also, seeing what Japanese management is doing over here makes me wonder if
they are all that good at manufacturing or just as good at browbeating American
workers as they are their own.  Perhaps they are just sending management 
trainees over here.

Spike Burkhardt
Systems Management VMS/Unix programming
Internet address - spike@lmsc.lockheed.com
408-742-1246(w)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: pjm@isis.cshl.org (Pat Monardo)
Subject: Re: Bush CAN pardon himself
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 06:12:22 GMT

In article <1783@esl.ESL.COM> drm@esl.com writes:
>
>The Iran-Contra scheme was stupid, and there was a public interest in  
>seeing it exposed as a stupid policy.  Criminialization of the policy  
>differences between the Congress and the Executive...particularly when  
>there was a long history of winks and nudges between the two branches over  
>the "crime" of supporting the contras...was an even worse idea.  

from what i recall, Congress's behavior during the height of the
Contra v. Sandinista fun was extremely erratic. one week support,
the next week removing support. they were pathetic.
given such an environment, i think what was really happening
was executive-congressional power wanking and they should
forget this stuff and get on with the future games.
-- 
-- Pat Monardo
-- pjm@cshl.org
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: dmeier@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Douglas Meier)
Subject: Re: pounding the "10%" figure into the ground: Nature, 12/3/92
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 22:51:47 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.172845.19436@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> prs9k@brain.med.virginia.edu (Phil Scarr) writes:
>In article <1992Dec29.162836.25807@wam.umd.edu> rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes:
>>
>>	Blaming society for your problems is like blaming clouds for rain.
>
>What a patently racist, ignorant, and perverse statement.  Why don't you
>crawl back under the libertarian rock you crawled out from under.  The
>rest of us have a society to rebuild after 12 long years of Republican
>neglect, greed, intollerance and ignorance.
>
Yes, crawl back under that rock, damn you!  How dare you say anything that
goes against the grain of our Brave New World^H^H^H^H^H Leader Bill Clinton
and his social engineering^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H utopian policies!

The gall of people who think that others should be responsible for their own
actions and lifestyle choices.  Just so crude!

-- 
Douglas C. Meier		|  Didn't need no welfare state, everybody
Northwestern University, ACNS 	|  pulled his weight...Those were the days!
This University is too Commie-	|  --From theme to "All in the Family"
Lib Pinko to have these views.	|  dmeier@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu (Michael Silverman)
Subject: George Bush pardons criminals
Organization: Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
Date: 25 Dec 92 20:02:03 GMT

A couple thoughts...

1. A "pardon" implies that the person(s) being pardoned did something
wrong.

2. Bush, who is very concerned about his place in history, must be
in very much fear that his actions in the Iran-contra case would
have been exposed to issue this pardon, which will undoubtedly
tarnish him in the history books.

3. How can Bush (or anybody for that matter) consider it patriotic
to violate one's sacred oath to defend and uphold the Constitution?

Far from being patriots, the men Bush pardoned (like Weinberger)
are *traitors* to the United States of America and should be
punished as such. Unfortunately, they never will be.

C
--
cubsfan@camelot.bradley.edu

"One likes to believe in the freedom of baseball" - Geddy Lee
From: rwojcik@atc.boeing.com (Richard Wojcik,snake)
Subject: Re: US Should NOT Disarm Somalis
Reply-To: rwojcik@atc.boeing.com
Organization: Research & Technology
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:54:49 GMT

In article 3192@devnull.mpd.tandem.com, rspence@mpd.tandem.com (Russell Spence) writes:
>	I actually, I don't think they are talking about taking individual
>	AK-47's from people as much as removing the hundreds of laser-guided
>	TOW missiles that we sold them in the 70's :-(.
                             ^^^^^

Substitute the words "bought for", and it was in the 80's.  The Reagan-Bush years.

-----
Disclaimer:  Opinions expressed above are not those of my employer.

    Rick Wojcik   (rwojcik@boeing.com)   Seattle, WA

Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy
From: b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (General Ignorance)
Subject: ...Psst. Ya wanta Merry Christmas??  Just ignore Washington DC!
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords:  Ahh-ha-ha-ha-ha, ahh-ha-ha-ha-ha, ah-ha-ha-ha, ha-ha ha ha
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 11:38:00 GMT

There is only one true reality.

(hint: tain't media)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.current-events.somalia,alt.politics.bush,alt.president.clinton
From: johnm@cortex.physiol.su.oz.au (John Males)
Subject: Re: WAR IN BOSNIA!!!!
Organization: Department of Physiology, University of Sydney, NSW, Australia
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 22:15:08 GMT

In <athos-181292090648@kip2-49.apple.com> athos@apple.com (Rick Eames) writes:

>> According to the Thursday December 17, 1992 _Chicago Tribune_, George
>> Bush and company has authorized United States involvement in Bosnia.
>> 
>> 1) The millitary has legitimate uses, such as self defense (as in WWII) and

And did America think that Iraqi fighters were going to attack the USA? 

>> millitary into Bosnia in order to stop two well-armed and well-entrenched
>> factions from fighting each other is NOT an act of self defense or the 
>> protection of peaceful initiatives.

TWO well armed sides? From what I understand, there is only one well armed side 
in that war. And consider this: Serbia attacks the Albanians in Kosovo,
the Albanians and muslim countries get involved, other European countries get
involved etc etc.....would it be in the interests of the US to get involved 
then?


John
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc