Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:04:59 -0400
From:         SPRG0002@TULSAJC.BITNET
Subject:      Re: morals

 *** Resending note of 08/31/92 11:57

 > Robert does indeed say that atheists should not be able to adopt.  He
 > does not advocate removing children from their homes except when the
 > safety of the child is at stake.  He also admits that atheists may be
 > excellent *worldly* parents imparting all the values for successful
 > socialization and employment.

 >>OK, how about muslims.  Could a baby from a christian family
 >>be adopted by a muslim family.  After all muslims think Jesus
 >>was NOT the son of God and some on this list think even their
 >>God, Allah, is a different God.  (And you guys thought you got
 >>away with THAT.   :-)

 I would say this is a practice which should be discouraged.  If the
 child is very young the conflicting beliefs may not come into play,
 however, an older child will undoubtedly have to deal with a very
 traumatic situation.

 >>So Robert admits that atheists are excellent worldly parents but
 >>should not be allowed to adopt because *Robert* does not think
 >>they should be able to.  If THAT isn't imposing (by force) your
 >>own morals to others, I don't know what is.


 I don't recall admitting any such thing.  I said that atheists *MAY*
 be excellent *worldly* parents.  You're also the one that claims I
 somehow decided that atheists should be denied this privilege.  My
 objection is not based upon personal choice but *truth*.

 "G"od allows us to take part in the creation process, but this does not
 come without obligation.  As parents, we are held to the responsibility of
 raising our children in "fear of the Lord".  No, that doesn't mean afraid.
 This task, of course, is one that will most likely be ignored, or more
 likely condemned, by atheist parents.  Unlike birth into this unfortunate
 situation, adoption offers the option of control.

 > He would also ask:
 > "What does it profit a man to gain the world and lose his soul?"

 >>The "world."  (There, there was a couple more votes for you. :-)

 The *world*, you evidently were unable to understand, refers to worldly
 things.  Insert job, finances, cars, popularity, political recognition or
 thousands of other temporary items if that makes it easier for you.

 >> I wonder if Robert would agree to the notion that minor children
 >> of atheists parents should be able to hire a lawyer to sue
 >> their parents in order to get out of a godless household.

 > No, not unless the child's safety is at risk.  If the child has the
 > wisdom to know s/he is living in a "G"odless household, the parents
 > have failed to impart their misfortune upon their child.  In this
 > case, the child will overcome the burden of ungodly parents anyway.

 >>(Let me play this silly game with Robert for just a bit more.
 >>Remember, the more I keep him engaged in "debate" the less
 >>he would make damage in the society at large.)

 I'm afraid that you'll not be able to *debate* until you find a
 defendable position.

 >>But what if the child wants to attend Church and he is not
 >>allowed to?  Should our Christian police, equipped with laws
 >>passed by Christian lawmakers, who were elected by Christian
 >>voters be able to force the parents to let the child attend
 >>church?

 I'm afraid this tragedy occurs all too often in our society, not
 always necessarily at the hands of atheistic parents.  A child is to
 honor and obey his parents, period.  Before you go over the edge, this
 does not mean submit to sexual/physical abuse etc.  Until the child
 is able to leave the home he will have to make the best of it.  If the
 parents actually prevent the child from coming to know his savior, I'm
 sure there will be a special place in Hell for them.

 >And I don't see why your concern about living with godless
 >parents is limited to adopted kids.  What sin did the biological
 >child has committed?  Why are you condemning that innocent child?
 >-KAT

 See above.  Because some children are born into poverty, should we
 advocate adoption into poverty?  Just which child is it that you are
 calling innocent?  Why?  Do you believe that orphans have committed
 some type of horrendous crime?  Rather than condemning anyone, I am
 advocating the best situation possible for adopted children.

 ---Robert
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