From: marshall1198@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Angels and Music
Date: 27 Aug 92 13:03:22 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <87193@netnews.upenn.edu>, crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
> From: rich.bellacera@amail.amdahl.com
> Subject: Do Angels Sing (was: Is music Amoral?)
>  
> 
> The following was sent to me via email from someone whose server is set up
> such that he can't post directly to the group.  He asked that I post it for
> him, so here it is.  His email address is included above for those who wish to
> respond directly.      --Lauren
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>                              Do Angels Sing?
> 
> With all this commotion about whether or not music (in general) is amoral I
> thought I'd add a little thought I've have concerning music's state of
> well-being and it's origin:
> 
> I contend that at one time "heavenly" angels DID sing, but at this time, they
> do NOT.  Now don't go gett'n your tail feathers all ruffled.  First hear me
> out, then (as they say) "flame me" all you want :)

I'm not here to flame anyone.  Actually I see where you are coming from.

> First, let me say this concept whether scriptural or not has absolutely no
> bearing on yours/my faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.  What it just
> might do, for some, is turn on a few light bulbs that ya didn't know where
> there.  It's really just a "gee whiz" thang.
> 
> While there is really not enough scripture to build solid doctrine, I will
> submit that these thoughts are mine (possibly inspired, actually I believe
> they are since I discovered this train of thought while reading the Bible).
> Here we go:
> 
> Most of you would probably agree that before creating man, God created the
> heavens and the angels.  The accepted scriptures only really mention three
> angels by name:  Michael, Gabriel and Lucifer (the later now commonly called
> Satan or the Devil).
> 
> Each of these angels seemed to be assigned differing tasks for God.  Gabriel
> seemed to be a Messenger for God, a Herald of great events; Michael seemed to
> be the Warrior for God and Protector of God's chosen people; and Lucifer, it
> would seem, was assigned the task of Guarding God's throne and residing over
> music and the Worship of God in Song (Lucifer's description found in Ezekiel
> 28:12-19).  It is fairly accepted that at one point (probably before the time
> of Adam & Eve) Lucifer got haughty and tried to present himself as God's
> equal.  Then scripture tells us he was cast down for his conceit, he and "his"
> angels.  There was a battle in heaven between the Warriors and the Morning
> Stars (so-to-speak). I call Lucifer's angels "The Morning Stars" based on the
> scripture in Job 38:7 which is the nearest actual reference I could find to
> angels actually singing.  Lucifer/Satan is referred to as appearing as an
> angel of light (he AND his ministers), and the name "lucifer" means
> "lightbearer," and when the planet Venus appears in the daysky it is called
> "Lucifer" or the "Morning Star" (Isaiah 14:12-17; Revelation 12:7-12;and
> 2 Corinthians 11:14-15).
> 
> Another note of interest is that after Lucifer's fall from heaven he was (I
> surmise) banished to the earth or the atmosphere around it.  After his
> temptation to Adam & Eve, then the dispute between Cain & Abel, the next time
> (chronologically speaking) that music is given form is found in the godless
> descendents of Cain where the scriptures show that the first musical
> instruments (the harp of all things) are said to be from Jubal who is called
> the "father" of all who handle such (Genesis 4:21).  In a subtle way this
> seems to show that even after his fall, Lucifer/Satan still had the knowledge
> or gift of music. As was noted before, God created music, not Satan, therefore
> the best or worst Satan can do is "corrupt" what was/is of God.

I agree wholeheartedly.

> With all this in mind I contend that (unless someone can clearly show me where
> I am wrong) no angels in or from heaven have ever sung in scripture "after
> Lucifer's fall."  Sure, many may say, "But what about when Jesus was born,
> didn't the herald angels sing to the shepherds?" (Luke 2:13) or "What about
> the angels in heaven who surround God's throne worshipping him, singing 'Holy,
> Holy, Holy'?" (Isaiah 6:3) or even in the Apostle John's description of heaven
> in the book of Revelation he said they sang." (Revelation 4:8).  I picked
> those three scriptures because they are the most common to be misinterpreted.
> Except in some newer translations of the Bible, the passages have always read
> as "said" or "saying" or even "rejoicing", but never as "singing."  Even in
> the Greek and Hebrew.  It has become so commonplace to assume that the angels
> or angelic beings are singing that some modern scholars have gone ahead and
> replaced the words "saying" and "said" with "singing" and "sang" in some
> translations.  Check out the KJV at least to see the difference.  I'm certain
> you'll find lots of references to singing, but none attached to said angels.
> 
> Summary:
> Anyhow to sum up my point, the real pearl in this train of thought is in the
> idea that by his self-exhaltation Lucifer forfeited his place as God's
> minister in Song, as did Lucifer's angels.  So after his fall there was a void
> left wide open.  Just because Satan is a jerk was no reason for God to let go
> of this means of worship.  From that point on singing has been absent from
> heaven, but God commanded Adam & Eve to be fruitful and multiply and fill the
> earth.  It is my belief that one of the main reasons for this was to fill the
> earth with song.  As you may have already figured out, the ministry of song
> was transferred, by default, to mankind.  Every scripture in the Bible
> referring to singing is from the lips of godly men and women (with the
> exception of Job 38:7).  Though heaven is void of singing at the present, the
> scriptures assure us that it will not always remain so.  For in Revelation
> 5:8-10 it speaks of Jesus and says, "And when he had taken the book, the four
> beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one
> of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of the
> saints.  And THEY SUNG A NEW SONG, saying Thou art worthy to take the book,
> and to open the seals thereof: for thou was slain, and hast redeemed us to God
> by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and
> hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on earth."

I checked out those verses above in the KJV and the NIV and what you say about
the "no singing" is written.

> Isn't that great?  We will be singing in heaven the "New" song, to fill the
> void that was left by Lucifer and the Morning Stars.

I would still question whether or not angels are singing.  (but it is good to
question each other, it makes us examine ourselves and what we think) You have
good evidence to support what you are saying.  Please continue to post any
other findings that you might have.  I'd be interested in hearing it.  Also if
you would like to discuss theology or anything else, please drop me a line.

> Praise ye the Lord!

Praise Him with all your heart, soul, and strength.

> 'Rich'
>  -----looking forward to THAT day when I really will be one of his "riches" in
> glory (Philippians 4:19; Ephesians 1:18; Romans 9:23; Colossians 1:27)  :)
> 
> Maran-atha
> 
> -- 
> Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
> 
> Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things.
>             -- J. Danforth Quayle  

Evan Marshall
marshall1198@iscsvax.uni.edu

"Taste and see that the Lord is good,
        Taste and see... He's so good for you!"
                                ---Newsboys

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