HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Disconnector Malfunction (was: Breaking in a Gun)
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:29:51 GMT
Organization: gte

In article <58724@mimsy.umd.edu>, holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. ALF in spe)) writes:
# In <58599@mimsy.umd.edu> mfolenta@pica.army.mil, , (***** These are my opinions. Get your own.:-) *****) writes:
# #     #2. For safety's sake, when firing a new/worked on/modified
# #semi-automatic gun (handgun OR long gun), only load 2-3 rounds into
# #the gun for the first few times.  This way, if the disconnector
# #malfunctions, you will only have 2-3 rounds available for multiple
# #firing.  This would be a lot better than having a 10-19 round
# #full-auto burst go off unexpectedly!!
# 
# Is this really a serious possibility?  I think if a gun suddenly
# converts to full auto, major liability lawsuits would follow.  I was
# told that all major brand guns are test-fired by the manufacturer,
# therefore a faultily assembled gun shouldn't leave the plant.  Are
# there any factual data on disconnector malfunctions?  I'd like to see
# that because I doubt the validity of Mike's concern.  It sounds a bit
# like "Don't fill more than 10 fl.oz. gasoline into your new car, because
# it might blow up."
# 
# My main questions are:  Are disconnector malfunctions any more propable
# with a new gun than with an old one?  How propable are they at all?

It's more like saying, don't go buying a new/used/recently-repaired 
car and take a 3,000 mile road trip straight from the garage/car-lot.

Drive it around town for a couple of weeks -- any major problems should
present themselves very quickly (things like failure to tighten lug nuts,
radiator hose clamps, etc).  

The *occurence* of gun malfunction is very low, but the *penalty* for
having a gun blow up in your face is extremely high.

Think of the above precautions like fire insurance on your house --
most people will (thankfully) never need it -- but if you find out
that you really should have bought it, you are in a world of hurt!



-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda
From: wdm@druhi.ATT.COM (MotyckaWD)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm subsonic ammo
Date: 25 Jul 92 00:29:35 GMT


In article <9207201716.aa20951@claudius.pica.army.mil>, erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:
# 
# A lot of agencies are evidently still convinced that heavier bullets are
# better, in spite of the superior performance of +P+ 115 gr. JHPs. Why
# else would the first Black Talon 9mm loading be a 147 gr.
# 
# 
# Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
# Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products

There is an interesting article on bullet weight by Ken Waters in the latest
issue of Handloader.  Basically Ken says that "heavy isn't as good as a
well constructed medium weight bullet in the same caliber." (this is heavily
paraphrased)  Good reading for all who haven't made up their mind that heavy
is best ;-)

Wayne
--
 Wayne D. Motycka            |
 AT&T Bell Labs - Denver     |        Illigitima Non Carborendum.
 ...att!druhi!wdm            |
From: robinson@stout.geo.brown.edu (Darrin Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Deputy Sheriff killed on the job
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:12:15 GMT
Organization: Brown University, Providence RI 02912

In article <9207190308.AA09553@stealth> bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) writes:
##In Message <58665@mimsy.umd.edu> pnr0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PAUL N. RITTER) writes:
## To anyone involved in law enforcement;
##        Two days ago, a Deputy Sheriff was shot and killed while attempting to
##    serve a warrant for arrest. He was not wearing his vest. He is survived by
##    a wife and children.
##        PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE. WEAR YOUR VESTS. They can only help you if
##        they're on you.
#
#And in the interest of balanced reinforcement:  Yesterday
#an AZ DPS Officer (a cop) was accidentally shot in the
#chest by another officer while serving a warrant, but was
#saved by his vest.
#
#				--Blair
#				  "Film at 11...probably..."

In the intereset of un-balanced endorsement:  Several weeks ago,
a Newport Police Special Response Team (Newport's SWAT Team) was
shot in the hand by another officer during a drug raid.  Seems 
that he had his weapon cocked and was the second man in behind
the dude with the rammer.  He shot the rammer in the hand by
pure accident and probably over-adrenalized and squeezed the
trigger just a little too much.

He was reprimanded for a failure to maitain control of his
weapon and for having his S&W 9mm cocked.  

Oh, by the way... all members of the "Team" were wearing vests
at the time, as they always do.  (Sidenote:  They were also wearing
their hoods and helmets.)

Darrin
#include <std_disclaimer.h>
=============================================================================
=  Darrin E. Robinson (DER31) =    Hamnet     N1LLV  146.700-, 146.880- MHz =
=  VAX/VMS and Sun Manager    =    Internet   robinson@porter.geo.brown.edu =
=  Brown University           =               n1llv@porter.geo.brown.edu    =
=  Providence, R.I. 02912     =    SPAN(et)   PGGIPL::ROBINSON (Node 7132)  =
=  AT&Tnet: (401) 863-1062    =    Nasamail   derobinson@nasamail.nasa.gov  =
=============================================================================
From: rats@ihlpm.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Disconnector Malfunction
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:03:13 GMT

It was reported here back in 1989 that a man who took his relatively new
semi-auto AK to a range in Kalifornia was killed when it went full auto
without warning and somehow the gun got turned around on himself...
From: brian@pdx.csd.mot.com (Brian Vandewettering)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Highpower Shooting Questions
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:37:08 GMT
Organization: Motorola CSD, Beaverton, OR


In article <23JUL199208173727@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov> aeporro@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Bob Porro) writes:
#I have two questions related to shooting in highpower rifle competitions:
#
#(1) For those of you who have glass bedded rifles, do you disassemble the 
#rifle to clean and oil it if it has been rained on?  I hear that frequent 
#disassembly will ruin the glass bedding.

I pull out the trigger group and leave the action in the stock.  You must
be carefull at this point not to accidently pull dislodge the bedding.
With the trigger group removed you can clean most of the action.  Being an
Oregonian I've had this experience a few times and haven't rusted my 
weapon yet.  Most important is having the weapon properly lubricated in the
first place.

#
#(2) Shooting the M1 Garand in a match -- how in the #$!@ does a left-handed 
#shooter reload (insert a clip of ammo) the rifle with only his left hand?
#For a right-handed shooter, this is a relatively trivial matter, but not so 
#for a left-hander.

I'm a lefty and have no problem loading a full clip.  Single loading
without a SLED (Single Loading Enhancement Device) is a pain in the butt
though.  With the full clip, just set it in place on top of the receiver
and press down with the thumb of your left hand.  Keep your thumb to 
the rear of the clip while doing this.  When the clip "clicks" into place,
give the operating rod a little nudge with your thumb and you're in'em.
Keep the rest of your appendages away from the bolt or it will smash them.

If you've removed the sizing lube from your reloads, the spring clip should
keep the bolt to the rear until you give it the nudge. In any case, since
you have your thumb to the rear it won't get caught betweent the bolt and
the front of the receiver.  The bolt will only push it out of the way on
it's way forward.  Trust me :) I've shot over 5000 rounds through two 
different Garands with no M1 thumb.  Knock on wood.

Don't smack the op-rod with the base of your palm.  A local did that about
8 years ago (before my highpower days) and had a slam-fire.  The op-rod came 
back and dug a 5 inch groove into his palm and forearm.  Beauty scar, Vern!

brian@pdx.csd.mot.com
-- 
"It cannot be presumed that any clause in the Constitution is intended to
be without effect..."

- Chief Justice John Marshall, Marbury v. Madison, 1803
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Long Range Fire
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:36:59 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

A friend and I were discussing long range sniper fire and both of
us were pretty ignorant of it. We came up with a few questions I wanted
to ask a forum of experts. These were:

1) What's the longest ranged sniper rifle in the world today?

2) What is it's maximum effective range?

3) What is the longest recorded sniper kill in history?

If anyone could come up with an answer to any of these, I would be
most grateful. Thanks in advance.

Cable
From: burens@4ccvw16.scg.hac.com (Mark Burens)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: $5000 Shopping Spree
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:37:34 GMT
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA


In article <9207211127.AA12411@mimsy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
#Guns magazine is currently running a contest in which the grand prize
#is a $5000 firearms shopping spree.  I thought this would be an interesting
#subject here.
#
#If you had $5000 to spend on firearms and/or accessories, what would
#you buy?
#
#Rob


If I were given 5 grand to buy guns and goodie I'ld get a Berretta 92F,
a Winchester 1300 12-gauge, a Colt 2000, another S&W 686, a Browning BDM,
a Glock 17, a Fort Knox safe, and as much ammo with the change.
From: gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re:HP's Illegal in N.J.? ***CORRECTION***
Date: 31 Jul 92 00:24:36 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University

In article <9207262135.AA01663@gtephx.com> forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:
## 
#That's about right: a hollowpoint is designed to expand more on impact and
#make a wider wound channel (bigger hole).  It is more likely to kill the
#person hit and less likely to go clean through the person and hit someone
#else.
#

The above statements run counter to the collective observations of trauma
surgeons in this country. In 1973 when high-velocity (relatively speaking)
hollow-point handguns rounds were hitting the street -no pun intended- the
*** FBI released a survey stating that trauma surgeons could distinguish a
wound ***

THIS LINE SHOULD READ:
FBI released a survey stating that trauma surgeons could NOT distinguish a
wound

from an expanding bullet (hollow-point) from one produced by its non-expanding
counterpart. After twenty additional years development and experience, that
same observation was made by Dr. Vincent DiMaio of the Southwest Forensic
Institute in his book "Gunshot Wounds" that was published by Elsevier Scien-
tific Publishers in 1989, I think. Correction: Southwest Institute of Forensic
Sciences.

When surgeons experienced in treating gunshot injuries are asked to predict
what kind of missile was used to produce a particular injury based on its
appearance they cannot do it. Even estimating calibers used or magnum vs
non-magnum is difficult if not impossible.

The medical literature tends to break gunshot injuries down into two fairly
broad groups based upon striking velocity; essentially rifle versus hadngun.
This assumes of course that we do not include the exotic handguns. The break
point is roughly 2000 fps but it depends somewhat on bullet design. The
difference in tissue reaction between expanding and solid rifle bullets is
much much greater than between expanding and non-expanding pistol bullets.
The point here is that bullet construction is a more important factor in
determining tissue destroyed when a rifle was used than when a pistol was
used.

As far as mortality is concerned, where you are hit and how long it takes
before treatment is initiated appear more important than what caliber
handgun or what bullet design was used. However, I have no quantitative
info in my files on mortality as a function of handgun bullet design so
I am less certain about the mortality issue than about the morbidity issue.


geoff kotzar             gmk@falstaff.mae.cwru.edu
From: raymond@jupiter.ame.arizona.edu (Raymond Man)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M1 Garand/M1A history & differences?
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:27:01 GMT

#The Garand was also used in Nam.  As you may have observed, when
#the Garand fires its last round it makes a distinctive "t-ting"
#sound as it ejects the clip.  Victor Charlie observed this and ...

I have heard of the "t-ting" sound problem when the clip fallen
on freeze ground in WWII, probably at the time of the Battle of
the Bulge. However, I cannot imagine a VC can hear that good in
a jungle.

The US Army were already buying M16 in the hundreds of thousands in 
1958 - 1961, so I guess very few VC had the good fortune to run into
an M1.

Could that just be a rehash of the old WWII legend?
From: hancock@iex.iex.com (David Hancock)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: $5000 Shopping Spree
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:34:07 GMT
Organization: IEX Corporation, Dallas

In article <9207211127.AA12411@mimsy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
#Guns magazine is currently running a contest in which the grand prize
#is a $5000 firearms shopping spree.  I thought this would be an interesting
#subject here.
#
#If you had $5000 to spend on firearms and/or accessories, what would
#you buy?
#
#Rob

	H&K P7M8

	SIG P210 (whichever "dash" has the adj. sights).

	Browning Superposed 12 GA. (extra barrels, too, if there's any money
				    left at this point)
-- 
David Hancock -*- IEX Corporation	       | Email: [uunet!]iex!hancock
		  1400 Preston Road, Suite 350 | Voice: (214) 612-2600
		  Plano, Texas 75093
From: meyer@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Don Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AVOIDING GETTING MISTAKENLY SHOT
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:02:55 GMT
Organization: UIUC College of Agriculture

gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes:

#In article <1992Jul19.061249.21042@athena.mit.edu> sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Rifleman) writes:
##impersoning an officer is prohibited, but if you carried the badge
##concealed, I don't see how anyone could argue you were trying to 
##impersonate an officer.

#Oh, really?  What other purpose could you have in carrying such a badge?

Actually, volunteer firemen in my neck of the woods are issued badges.

Don
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
	Don Meyer			dlmeyer@uiuc.edu
	 Network Manager, UIUC College of Ag Microcomputer Facility

"Fiscal Responsibility + Personal Freedom = Libertarian"     Marrou/Lord in 92!

member: NRA, ISSC, IL Farm Bureau	"Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian!"
From: sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Rifleman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .308 for 1000 yd. Matches
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:33:54 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <n-hmkj#.messina@netcom.com> messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk) writes:
#infmx!gregm@uunet.UU.NET (Greg Mitchell) writes:
#
## As the air density decreases the speed of sound increases. 
#
#I think it's the exact opposite.  The higher the density, the faster
#the speed of sound.

The speed of sound is determined by the restoring force acting on 
the compression waves.  Since, for a fixed amount of air at a fixed
temperature, PV = constant, increasing the density decreases
the volume, forcing the pressure to go up.  Now, higher pressures
should cause larger restoring forces, so that increasing the density
would tend to increase the speed of sound, as the second poster says.  This
is why the speed of sound tends to drop off at higher altitudes,
although the model is not a perfect fit because temperature is
typically a strong (non-monotonic) function of altitude (along with
density).

       "Every physicist should have his own kinematic projectile
        launching device, preferably in stainless with night sites."
From: 34AEJ7D@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Free NRA memberships offered
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:10:07 GMT

I recently started a new program to broker NRA (National Rifle
Association) memberships.  Essentially, I want to match persons who
would join the NRA, but haven't due to some monetary or other
restraint, with people who are willing to pay for one year memberships
($25 each).

I, personally, am offering a free NRA 1 year membership to any
interested party who is not a current or former member, and who is not
ineligible for membership (felons or traitors).

I, personally, will be offering one membership a month.

I need additional sponsors - make whatever level of commitment you are
comfortable with - one membership, four memberships, one a month,
whatever.  No money changes hands, I match sponsors with recipients,
the sponsor is responsible for purchasing the gift membership from the
NRA.

On a monthly basis, I will be republishing this offer, along with the
following information, from June 4th (inception) to today, July 27th:

Memberships paid for: 27
Memberships pledged: 120+
Memberships requests received: 36
Number of sponsors: 31
Current NRA membership: 2.8 million, 50,000 new members per month

To participate:

Prospective members:

Send me an email letter explaining, in a couple of paragraphs, why you
think the RKBA (Right to Keep and Bear Arms) is important.  Indicate
why you haven't joined the NRA, and any other information you think
might influence a sponsor.  I will acknowledge receipt of the letter.

Include your name as you would want it to appear on any membership
awarded, your mailing address, and an indication of your age
(over/under 21 is sufficient).

Recipient names will be confidential, except for myself and the final
sponsor.

If you are selected to receive a sponsored membership, you will be
notified after it has been purchased.

If you know someone who'd be interested, but lacks email access,
please help them as a go-between.

Prospective sponsors:

This can't work well without sponsors.  The NRA is growing by a
average net 30,000 members a month (average - April and May saw
150,000 (!) new members)- here is an easy way for you to find people
who want to join the NRA, but haven't for some reason.  A new NRA
member is worth far more than the $25 contribution you might make to
NRA-ILA, or NRA-PVF.

Anonymity of sponsors will be preserved.  You must have a credit card
to buy a membership for another person from the NRA.  DO NOT send me
your credit card number!  AMEX, Visa, and MasterCard are all accepted.

The Goal:

We can't do this alone, but I'd like to see a 10 million member NRA by
the year 2000.  I believe that anyone given a free one year membership
is likely to renew that membership the next year.

Disclaimer:

This is not a program of the NRA - I thought it up myself, it's being
done on my own time.

My employer neither endorses nor condemns this project.

--
Kirk Hays - NRA Life.
hays@ssd.intel.com

"Judge each day not by the harvest you reap, but by the seeds you plant."
-- Robert Louis Stevenson
From: messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .308 for 1000 yd. Matches
Date: 24 Jul 92 03:18:58 GMT
Organization: Messina Software

infmx!gregm@uunet.UU.NET (Greg Mitchell) writes:

# As the air density decreases the speed of sound increases. 

I think it's the exact opposite.  The higher the density, the faster
the speed of sound.

t.
From: boardman%cancer.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Bob Boardman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Stoli Panda action
Date: 25 Jul 92 00:29:33 GMT
Organization: UNM Cancer Center

In article <BruME1.Jq2@news.cso.uiuc.edu>,
    cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini) writes:
#
#A friend and I have been kicking around the idea of making an action 
#for the 'minimal White Tail' cartridge, probably based on the 7.62 x 39
#case or a very chopped 308 case, caliber 6.5mm through .308
#ie a 90-125 grain bullet at 2700-3000 fps.
      ^^^^^^                 ^^^^^^^^^
#So what do you think?

	I think you've just re-invented the .243 Winchester, IMHO the
  'minimal Whitetail' cartridge.

	Personally, I think all the ado about these extra light-weight
  "mountain rifles" is silly.  After backpacking in the mountains with
  a 40-50 lb. pack, carrying only a 8 or 9 pound rifle all day isn't
  really much of a problem.  The heavier rifles are much easier to hold
  steady in the offhand position if a quick shot is required.

  -Bob
	
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|**I _AM_ a member of a well-regulated militia - self-regulated, that is!!!!**|
| Bob Boardman,Albuquerque,New Mexico - NRA LIFE, NMSSA, Zia Rifle&Pistol Club|
|        internet:boardman@cancer.unm.edu    bitnet:BOARDMAN@UNMB             |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: tiger@vipunen.hut.fi (Karl R. Tigerstedt)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Shotgun cartridge reloading
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:54:05 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology



   I'm considering to start reloading 12 gauge shotgun cartridges. Reloading 
isn't very common here in Finland, although equipment is readily available.
I've been looking at a couple of brochures from various equipment suppliers,
Lee etc. Could anyone recommend a specific product? To start, I'll probably
be reloading about 2000-3000 cartridges per year. And what about the 
cartridges? Which ones have the most durable plastic that allow greater 
number of realoads? Anything else to consider? 
  
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I have only come here seeking knowledge.
 Things they would not teach me of in college"    - The Police
*** Karl Tigerstedt , email tiger@vipunen.hut.fi ***
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm subsonic ammo
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:36:57 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Laboratory, APG, MD.


In article <9207201716.aa20951@claudius.pica.army.mil> erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:
#After the FBI's FUBAR in Miami, they blamed the 9mm and pointed a finger
#at 115 gr. bullets allegedly underpenetrating. Casting about for a
#panacea, they came upon the 147 gr, JHP, and began using it in a role
#totally different from that which it was designed for. Not surprisingly
#it has performed dismally, not much better than FMJ.

No doubt that the FBI was more interested in finding a scapegoat outside
the Bureau rather than admit that their agents (and even worse, Bureau
training and policies) were not very proficient.  You see the same
tendency in administrations everywhere in the "public sector", from
police departments to school districts.  I don't know what can be done
about it but I wish something could.

#A lot of agencies are evidently still convinced that heavier bullets are
#better, in spite of the superior performance of +P+ 115 gr. JHPs. Why
#else would the first Black Talon 9mm loading be a 147 gr.

A lot of commercial ammunition and firearm models seemed targeted at
specific law-enforcement markets, therefore conforming to their specs.
This seems to be the reason that most available .40S&W ammo has 180gr
bullets, that being the most common federal specification.