HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Record shops (LPs)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 17:32:30 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

dhembrow@eoe.co.uk (David Hembrow) writes:
> Some of the more recent CDs which I have bought do sound quite acceptable,
> this is despite the fact that my CD player is the same one I bought 5 years
> ago which I was never really happy with from the beginning.
> 
> The best sounding vinyl LPs which I have do sound better than the CDs still
> though I think.

Hardly surprising if you're using a 5 year old CD player.  CD player
technology has improved a LOT in the last few years.


mathew
-- 
Lung cancer and arteriosclerosis.
For people who like to smoke.
From: igb@fulcrum.co.uk (Ian G Batten)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Record shops (LPs)
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:08:51 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Fulcrum Communications

In article <PD.92Dec18133642@mull.x.co.uk> pd@x.co.uk (Paul Davey) writes:
> One quote was that CD's finish at 20kHz, whereas good quality LP's
> have a frequency range of up 30kHz, and that while you might not be
> able to hear a 26kHz tone very clearly, you can hear the difference
> between a 26kHz and 27kHz tone. I presume they beat together.

Most cartridges simply can't track that, and most speakers can't
reproduce it.  In fact, modern speakers often roll off at about 22 (ie
roll off in the cross-over) because Metal dome tweeters have some nasty
resonances.

> He also said that CD's distort most in the quiet sections (due to
> quantisation noise) whereas LP's distort most in the loudest sections.

But a decent DAC will have distortion figures of better than -46db at
-70db input signal.  I have the test results for the Mission DAC5, a
decent DAC7 implementation, to hand:

Signal Level		20Hz		10KHz		20KHz
0db			-95		-93		-93
-10db					-86
-70db					-48.5

Do you believe these figures to matter?  I don't.


> There were some interesting demos with a Rock Turntable and a top CD
> player with some AAA and DDD recordings of the same performance. 

Yeah, so you've heard how dreadful some ADC equipment is.  That's all.

If digital audio is so INHERENTLY bad, how come many Analogue
enthusiasts use high-end Tuners to listen to Radio Three?  FM
transmissions get from Studio to Transmitter in 12-bit companded form...

ian
Newsgroups: uk.misc
From: joe@jshark.inet-uk.co.uk (Joe Sharkey)
Subject: Re: Record shops (LPs)
Organization: Independent Network (UK)
Distribution: uk
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 21:15:09 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.170319.23478@gssec.bt.co.uk> bmcgeene@gssec.bt.co.uk (Brian McGeeney) writes:
>
>An LP is cheaper than a CD.

They cost about the same - when you can find both in the same shop. Maybe
CD's are *slightly* more expensive.

>                            A record deck costing X pounds is of better
>quality than a CD player costing X pounds.

This may have been true when CDs first came out, not now. Compare and
contrast at: a) 100, b) 150, c) 200, d) 400, e) "Yowza!"  pounds.

>The question of value is thus how long each format will last.
>This is where CD's tend to score - you can play them on any crap
>system and they won't wear out. The same can't be said for LP's.

Vinyl is *plastic*, and so can survive some deformation. Although that
will reduce with age.

Do any companies actually press LP's here?  "Automatic for the People" by
REM - a "biggie! - is "Made in Germany"...

>If however, the LP's played on a decent system with a decent cartridge
>it's gonna last a helluva lot longer. 

Agreed.

>The LP v CD argument is thus largely dependent on the quality (ie cost)
>of the hardware, and on the care you take of your LP's or CD's.

Or whether you want to buy a reissue you ignored first time round - they
don't come on LP anymore.

>On a related point:
>Does anyone know how long CD's last before the surface starts to oxidise
>and they become unplayable?

Shouldn't be a problem. Aluminium oxides very rapidly and is *very* robust.
Avoid squirting gunk at them to make them "sound better" - probably just
washes off the oxide...

>Brian McGeeney


joe.
-- 
Joe Sharkey     joe@jshark.inet-uk.co.uk     ...!uunet!ibmpcug!jshark!joe
150 Hatfield Rd, St Albans, Herts AL1 4JA, UK      Got a real domain name
(+44) 727 838662         Mail/News Feeds (v32/v32bis): info@inet-uk.co.uk
Newsgroups: uk.misc
From: dhd@exnet.co.uk (Damon)
Subject: Re: Mailing lists from hell
Organization: ExNet Systems Ltd Public Access News, London, UK
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:56:13 GMT

In article <29524@castle.ed.ac.uk> eanv20@castle.ed.ac.uk (John Woods) writes:
>Post the 0800 numbers to the net & several of us will instruct our
>modems to 'phone them constantly with appropriate faxes.  If they don't
>have faxes, they'll just get unpleasant sounds.  Each call brings them
>nearer bankruptcy.  I'm sure several others would be willing to help
>in a situation like this.  

That would almost certainly count as a malicious call, and could get
you fined and have your phone service disconnected I should think.

Damon
-- 
Damon Hart-Davis                          Internet: dhd@exnet.co.uk, d@hd.org

Public-access UNIX (Suns), news and mail for UK#5 per month.  FIRST MONTH FREE.
[1.35] Cheap Sun eqpt.  UUCP news/mail feeds.  Tel/Fax: +44 81 755 0077.
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Health care (READ/NEWRe: Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking
Date: 18 Dec 92 14:26:09 GMT
	<29108@castle.ed.ac.uk> <1992Dec5.163459.10594@vax.oxford.ac.uk>
	<29178@castle.ed.ac.uk> <1992Dec15.173636.10822@vax.oxford.ac.uk>
	<29731@castle.ed.ac.uk>
Distribution: uk
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <29731@castle.ed.ac.uk> fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes:

   If we get the government out of the economy again then all the assets
   that it already has in the economy can be sold and distributed to us,
   the shareholders. After that, it's up to you to invest it wisely. It
   should be hard to beat the government though.

Sold AND distributed to us?  One or the other, surely, but not both at the
same time.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)

		
Xref: sparky uk.misc:2023 comp.misc:4639
From: mick@dcs.bbk.ac.uk (Mick Farmer)
Newsgroups: uk.misc,comp.misc
Subject: Locating Dave Tilbrook
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:21:54 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium

Hi,

I'm trying to contact Dave Tilbrook.  Does anyone have his
latest e-mail address?

Regards,

Mick
From: s_curtis@csd.uwe.ac.uk (Steve Curtis)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Satellites
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:47:27 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: University of the West of England, Bristol

In article <1113@dsbc.icl.co.uk> sut@eccles.dsbc.icl.co.uk (Secure Unix Team KID01) writes:
>'scuse my ignorance on this!
>My dad told me that he's has to change his satellite dish cos the BSB marco
>polo satellite (I think) stops transmitting at the end of the year. I was wondering if its possible to canabalise the now redundant dish and receiver to pick
>up any other satellites, like a weather one for instance?

Well it is possible, but you will have to change it a little.  It receives
D-Mac and everyone else transmits in D2-Mac.  You can pick up olympus 
but the picture rolls and theres no sound.  Apart from that its fine.

Steve.
-- 
Email: (JANET) : s_curtis@uwe.csd            
       (Inet)  : s_curtis@csd.uwe.ac.uk
From: sw@network-analysis-ltd.co.uk (Sak Wathanasin)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking
Date: 12 Dec 92 09:48:51 GMT
Reply-To: sw@network-analysis-ltd.co.uk
Distribution: uk
Organization: Network Analysis Ltd
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1


In article <20719@acorn.co.uk> (uk.misc), steve@acorn.co.uk (Steve "daffy" Hunt) writes:

> Yes, but plenty of accidents involving cycles and cars are
> partly/completely the fault of the cyclist.  Who pays for the
> cyclist's medical treatment/funeral?

Join the CTC or the BCF; 3rd party insurance cover is included in the membership
fee. They also include a legal defence fund, so that CTC or BCF members who
are the subject of legal proceedings arising out of an accident can their
costs paid for (win or lose). With the CTC (and probably the BCF, but I'm
not a member so I don't know), for an additional #10/yr, you can take out legal
cover insurance which covers you for legal costs up to #50K to negotiate or
fight for damages in court.


Sak Wathanasin
Network Analysis Limited
178 Wainbody Ave South, Coventry CV3 6BX, UK

uucp:      ...!uknet!nan!sw  Phone: (+44) 203 419996
AppleLink: NAN.LTD           Internet: sw@network-analysis-ltd.co.uk
From: steve@acorn.co.uk (Steve "daffy" Hunt)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Record shops (LPs)
Date: 16 Dec 92 16:05:53 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Acorn Computers Limited, Cambridge, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

T R Stickland (bsstrs@gdr.bath.ac.uk) wrote:
: The problem wil digital technology is taht you cannot record everything.
: So you get a nearly perfect copy of part of your original signal only.
: These ommisions are what analogue fans find unaaceptable.  On CDs (don't
: know if this is down to the format or common to all digital technology)
: you particularly miss out on high frequency information.  Cymbals expecially
: sound bad, for example.

Yes and in fact CD players gently roll off the high frequency
information before the limit imposed by the sampling freqency to avoid
coming to an abrupt ceiling.

Although you cannot actually *hear* sound above 20-odd KHz, its
absense supposedly alters our subjective perception of the audible
lower frequencies.  (Like all my understanding of hi-fi this was
culled from a comic, so is probably at best a gross
oversimplification!)

-- Steve
-- 
				Steve Hunt	steve@acorn.co.uk
From: des@inmos.co.uk (David Shepherd)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Record shops (LPs)
Date: 18 Dec 92 09:17:58 GMT
Distribution: uk
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Rob Clive (rob@liciren.li.co.uk) wrote:
: >(2) won't work.  There's no motivation to replace your CDs with DCC; you can
: >    just tape them yourself.

: Don't think so.  Ever heard of Serial Copy Management?  The record
: industry *insisted* that copy protection hardware be built into every
: DCC.  After all, if you've got one gold mine (CD) why spoil the chances
: of another one (DCC).  So all those blank DCC tapes people buy will
: *really* be for recording bird song :-)

not quite right ... the SCM system allows *one* digital copy to be taken
.. i.e. you will be able to copy all your cd's to dcc but you won't then  be
able to copy the dcc digitally.

: BTW has anyone noticed what the average length of a CD recording is?
: Given that the maximum possible length of a CD is about 80 minutes it
: seems a rip off to purchase ones that have only 40 - 45 minutes on them.
: We seem to be paying out not only for the support of the record company
: but also for a lot of nothing.  Does anyone else think the same?


i used to have a rule of refusing to buy anything with less than 50 mins
on it ... one of the worst examples i've come across is steve reich's 
tehillim which has barely 35 minutes on it. 
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
david shepherd: des@inmos.co.uk or des@inmos.com    tel: 0454-616616 x 625
                inmos ltd, 1000 aztec west, almondsbury, bristol, bs12 4sq
                1992: celebrate the quincentenary of columbus getting lost
Newsgroups: uk.misc
From: des@inmos.co.uk (David Shepherd)
Subject: Re: hoover US air travel offer
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 11:25:09 GMT


a couple of weeks back when this was being discussed here people didn't
seem to know exactly what the conditions on this offer were. from what
i`ve read in the papers of the last few days these seem to be conditions
of the offer:

1) i think you have to demonstrate that you have booked accomodation
*when* you ask for your flights

2) if your using free accomocation - i.e. staying with friends - then
i think hoover have a right to refuse to give you tickets

3) you can nominate up to 3 dates for travel, if no space is available
on those days then you can nominate another 3 days. if again there is
no space available then hoover will give you a travel date. if you
cannot take that date then tough luck ... you won'rt be going free to
america.

meanwhile, the hoover factory has gone onto a 7 day shift pattern to
get the machines out (especially the #105 model which is proving very
popular!) and there is a growing trade in second hand nearly new
hoovers.

also, there was an item that i didn't quite catch on the today program
this morning that people were saying that hoover seemed to be changing
the conditions on the euro-flights offer after the end of the
promotion.



--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
david shepherd: des@inmos.co.uk or des@inmos.com    tel: 0454-616616 x 625
                inmos ltd, 1000 aztec west, almondsbury, bristol, bs12 4sq
                1992: celebrate the quincentenary of columbus getting lost
From: fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:25:42 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:

>The free market most definitely does NOT work on the basis that people
>pay only the cost of production (including labour time and some
>reasonable percentage profit).  (I've recently heard that it used to,
>some few thousands of years ago, until some clever classical Greek
>philosopher realised that instead of charging 'what it cost to make' a
>tradesman could charge 'whatever he could get people to pay for it',
>and so make more money.)

Agreed, but I think this is the point of a free market. Resources are
scarce in the sense that there are more people wanting things than there
are things. So those resources have to be allocated somehow. The
capitalist idea, which made the west richer than the rest of the world,
says that you should trade your resources for the resources you want.
Money is a fiction used to measure those resources and facilitate trade
in them - a Pound Note is, if you like, a futures option on a certain
level of resources.

Now, when the resources get allocated they get allocated to those
pesrsons that they are worth the most to, that is those persons willing
and able to trade the most other resources for them. Since the resources
traded for are obviously worth more to them than what they offer, wealth
is increased for them, and since the trader gets most resources in
return for what he's traded, wealth is maximised for him too.

Wealth decreases when resources must be traded for less resources
than were actually involved in their production. That's why subsidy is
so iniquitous. It increases the cost of the resources doing the
subsidising without corresponsing increase in wealth and since it alters
the cost of the subsidised resource downwards, it can hide the fact
that wealth is being lost in the production of this resource at a cost
more than its trade price. The wealth in the economy decreases,
everybody loses.

So subsidy can often simply be a way of decreasing wealth.

>Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK

FoFP
Newsgroups: uk.misc,uk.politics
From: ljp@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Guido)
Subject: Re: Libertarian philosophy (was Re: Transport...)
Organization: Coventry University
Distribution: uk
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:12:45 GMT

In article <BzBK2A.4xu@dcs.ed.ac.uk> eo@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Emma Osman) writes:
>In article <sV8RVB6w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes:
>>eo@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Emma Osman) writes (to FoFP):
>>
>>If people were less accustomed to thinking that the Third World was the
>>Government's problem, they might actually consider what they should do
>>themselves to help the Third World.  Like not banking at Lloyds or buying
>>Nestle products, for example.
>
>You have mistaken my point. The point is that IN THE THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES
>THEMSELVES there aren't proper controls on "bandit" companies like Nestle.
>Why there are no such controls (personally I'd kick them out of the
>ccountry) is a subject for discussion all by itself. Thee fact that there
>aren't is what allows Nestle to continue to perpetuate its con trick
>(BTW if anyone doesn't know, the "con trick" in question is to supply
>free baby milk to new mothers in hospitals. After a few days of this
>their own milk dries up; at around the same time they are discharged
>from hospital and are left with no other option but to continue to
>feed their infants Nestle milk , which they now have to pay for of course , 
>mixing the stuff with unsterilised water)
>

Yeah! The boycott has been called off and reimposed on a number of
occassions since 1979 - as nestle promise to change their ways and
then don't - anyone remember the poster advert saying that condensed
milk was a good substitute if you couldn't afford the powder.

Why are there no controls? Well remember Bangladesh and its decision
to control the types and numbers of drugs in its hospitals - to
use the least expensive. The Countries whose drug companies were
affected drastically reduced aid to Bangladesh! 

-- 
 "Even truth itself will jostle   |     /\     |  MAIL ljp@cch.cov.ac.uk
 its adversary in a narrow pass"  |    /<>\    |  REAL NAME Lloyd Patton
            John Warr             |   /____\   |
From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Record shops (LPs)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 17:07:28 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

joe@jshark.inet-uk.co.uk (Joe Sharkey) writes:
> In article <17imVB39w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:
> >Oh, do be serious.  If people wanted to buy records, the manufacturers would
> >make them.  They're only in the business to make money, after all.  Cassette
> >are analogue, noisy, and wear out just like records, but they're still made.
> 
> Don't be silly, the industry works on profit margins, not what the customer
> wants.  (See: "LP vs cassette, quality")

The profit on selling 100 LPs is larger than the profit on selling 10 CDs. 
If the customers really wanted LPs, there's no way the industry would be able
to railroad them into buying CDs.

> >bores spouting pseudo-science.  And the reason for that is that LPs have no
> >real advantages over CD, except that very high quality equipment to play the
> >can be made more cheaply than an equivalently high quality CD player.
> 
> Linn-Sondek + SME + cartridge: best part of a grand - and this would be
> (just about) mainstream.
> 
> "Decent" CD players are 150-200 pounds....

Since when?  I can hear the difference between a #400 CD player and a #300 CD
player, and it ain't subtle.  This indicates to me that a #400 CD player is
not near the top as far as quality is concerned.


mathew
-- 
Lung cancer and arteriosclerosis.
For people who like to smoke.
From: jesa@exnet.co.uk (John Budden)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Distribution: uk
Organization: JCB Digital
Subject: Atari keyboard
Reply-To: s0jxb@exnet.co.uk
X-Software: HERMES GUS 1.03 Rev. Apr 14 1992
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 21:26:22 GMT

Somebody must have an Atari keyboard they don't want -
Mail me, please!
-- 
=============================================================================
      From: John Budden                Email: s0jxb@exnet.co.uk

         "If you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined!"
Newsgroups: uk.misc
From: gtoal@robobar.co.uk (Graham Toal)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.4 2/2/92)
Subject: Re: Any excuse to search you at gunpoint (was Re: More cameras)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:55:34 +0000


In article <7026@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> bane@vtx.ma.man.ac.uk writes:
>I thought the same so imagine my horror when they set up armed road block in
>the centre of Manchester (well less than 5mins walk from actual centre)! Mind
>you, I was on a bus and they didn;t bother to stop them  -  lack of brains 
>somewhere I think!

Another dubious thing about these random searches: they ask you if they can
search your vehicle (they're not allowed to search without either permission
or 'reasonable suspicion' of a crime) - and if you refuse, they search anyway
on the grounds that refusal to allow a search gives 'reasonable suspicion'!

Does this strike anyone else as more than a bit dodgy?  I know we don't
have a constitution, but aren't there laws/precedents covering this sort
of default assumption?  Or are we going the way of the Americans and forgetting
abot the old 'innocent until proven guilty' lark?

G
From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Record shops (LPs)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 17:53:22 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

rob@liciren.li.co.uk (Rob Clive) writes:
> In article <ciNVVB18w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes:
> >> (1) Charge significantly more money to sell something that costs
> >> significantly less to produce
> >> (2) Make vast additional sums of money by re-releasing the entire 
> >> back-catalogue (which has already paid for itself) at further exhorbitant
> >> price
> >> (3) Use the excessive price of CD to drive up the costs (to the record-buy
> >> public) of the remaining media (compact cassettes).
> >[...]
> >> And guess what? It's about to happen all over again with DCC!
> >
> >(1) won't work.  DCC costs more to make than CD.
> 
> I would guess about the same as (admittedly high quality) cassette.

Yes, which is expensive.  Duplicating tapes requires that you use the master
repeatedly to play out to multiple high-speed tape recording machines.  Both
the machines and the master wear out.  This is less of a problem for CDs,
which are stamped out intact from a metal mold in seconds.

> >(2) won't work.  There's no motivation to replace your CDs with DCC; you can
> >    just tape them yourself.
> 
> Don't think so.  Ever heard of Serial Copy Management?  The record
> industry *insisted* that copy protection hardware be built into every
> DCC.

You should read up a bit more.  SCMS only stops *second generation* copies. 
You can copy a CD to DCC; you just can't then copy that DCC to another one.
Read the adverts or the articles in the hi-fi magazines.

> BTW has anyone noticed what the average length of a CD recording is?
> Given that the maximum possible length of a CD is about 80 minutes it
> seems a rip off to purchase ones that have only 40 - 45 minutes on them.

Do you feel the same way about 12" singles?


mathew
From: bane@vtx.ma.man.ac.uk (Michael!)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Orwell ?
Date: 19 Dec 92 16:59:59 GMT
Reply-To: bane@vtx.ma.man.ac.uk
Distribution: uk
Organization: Magic Michael's Mushroom Factory.

In article <1992Dec16.164012.17756@apricot.co.uk>, garyo@apricot.co.uk (Gary Osborne) writes:
|> 
|> Hi there,
|> 
|> I am interested in the Orwell language, can anyone direct me to a copy that
|> runs on Unix (any) or DOS please. This will be used for non-profit-making 
|> research.
|> 
|> Cheers all,
|> 
|> Gary Osborne.
|> 


you'll have to ask BIG BROTHER (1984) about this
Michael