HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
Subject: Re: Understanding anthropology & Science
From: john@csufres.CSUFresno.EDU (John)
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:47:52 PDT
Distribution: na
Organization: California State University, Fresno

In article <1992Oct7.180841.10479@nmsu.edu> bgrubb@dante.nmsu.edu (GRUBB) writes:
>Anthropology: in its most general sence (as stated by Smithsonian
>curator George Brown Goode) is the study of actions of humans and
>the products of their behavior.  By this definition ALL things that
						     ^^^  
>humans do are the study of anthropology.
>
>This makes anthropology unique amoung the sciences; it is the only science
>by definition that can study itself (while history can study itself it can 

Don't overlook philosophy, it is a prerequisite for all science, and
the very concept.  Anthropology is perhaps the study of all behavior,
but not everything.  

--
+----------------------------+   ||| | || |   
| -John  (The Generic John)  |   ||| | || |   
| john@csufres.csufresno.edu |   ||| | || |   
+-----------"Moo"------------+   666 1 13 0   
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands
From: dr@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Please Edit Followups (was:Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!)
Summary: please check the distribution of your followups
Organization: Auburn University, AL
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 23:03:46 GMT

I think the soc.culture.netherlands community should be included 
in the distribution of this, as many still seem unaware that their
followups are cross-posted to sci.anthropology.

In article <-1367030269snx@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au>, gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick) writes:
> 
> In article <BvuzpE.5vt@apollo.hp.com> nelson_p@apollo.hp.com writes:
> 
>  >   But it's not *just* s.c.n -- it's also posted to sci.anthropology.
>  >   I have no objection to posters in soc.culture.<whatever> posting in
>  >   the language of <whatever> -- but if you make worldwide distributions
>  >   in a more general newsgroup you should consider your audience.
>  >  
>  >  
>  > ---peter
> 
> I agree entirely with you, Peter. The problem is far less concerned
> with the topic, or even the use of Dutch, than with the absolutely
> brainless chatter being cross-posted into sci.anthropology.
> 
> Just get it off!
> 
> --
> Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
> Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
> PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
>    * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *


NOTE:  This is cross-posted to *both* soc.culture.netherlands AND
sci.anthropology - PLEASE check and edit any followups appropriately.
I again emphasize that non-USA perspectives are welcome and solicited
in sci.anthropology, but that posts should be about the science of
anthropology.  Finally, I feel I must mention that some subscribers
to s.c.n *have* edited the followup group list, and I, for one, 
appreciate their efforts.  Thanks again.

	D.R.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Roller  |    Bitnet = dr@auducvax            |  "Because we're all
Auburn Univ.  |  Internet = dr@ducvax.auburn.edu   |   in this together."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
From: kmr2836@tamuts.tamu.edu (Katherine Melanie Ryan)
Subject: Grad School Advice Needed
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 19:03:29 GMT

I'am a senior at Texas A&M Univ. and am desperately trying to figure out what
grad school to go to.  My main interest is primate social behavior, but I am
also very interested in ethnography.  
So what is the best school for primate social behavior that also has cultural
anth.?
I want to go to California, first choice.  UC San Diego does not have primate 
behavior, otherwise I would apply there.  
After finding what school offers what I want, how in the heck do I get in?
My overall GPA is 3.0 and I take the GRE this Saturday, but I don't expect to
do that well on it.  What are my chances.
Someone please respond!!!!!!!!!!

email to: kmr2836@tamu.edu
From: pound@ruf.rice.edu (Christopher Brian Pound)
Subject: Re: Query: science and technological culture
Organization: Rice University
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 04:26:13 GMT

>In article <BvJwD2.96p@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> thomasl@silver.ucs.indiana.edu ((thomasl)) writes:
>>Can anyone recommend reading on "the information age", the role of technology
>>and science in the post-modern world, and the implications for social 
>>organization, either locally or globally?  

Uhhh, it's a little old, but how about _High Technology, Space and Society_
edited by Manuel Castells, or better yet, Castells' book _The Informational
City_.

_Cyberspace_ (edited by Michael Benedikt) has several articles that take up
this subject in some form or another.

_The Mode of Information_ by Mark Poster isn't very anthropological, but it's
certainly relevant.

The first chapter in Celeste Olalquiaga's _Megalopolis_ is right on target
but it's solidly Cultural Studies, rather than Anthropology.  Plus, if your
library is as slow as ours, it won't have it yet.

Regarding studies of the cult/culture of science, I have to put in a plug for
Sharon Traweek's _Beamtimes and Lifetimes_.  It's good reading, and its
theoretical positioning is beyond reproach (from where I sit, at least :).

Enjoy.

-- 
+--------------------+ I would like to write you so simply ... so that above 
| Christopher  Pound | all the language remains self-evidently secret, as if 
| anthropology  grad | it were being  invented  at every step, and  as if it 
| pound@ruf.rice.edu | were  burning immediately ... I ask you to forget, to
From: burt@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Burt Voorhees)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
Subject: Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!
Keywords: femal breast bosom
Date: 10 Oct 92 18:05:31 GMT

>I had a feeling when reading posts like these that the year was more
>1984 then 1992.

>Education is now police, war is peace and sexism is sexuality...
>and also making sexist jokes does not reinforce sexism but
>critiques it...

>I would hope someday we will see less double-speak and more sense...

>Vera B.

  It seems to me that the major issue here is not only social but
psychological.  Beauty is not the only thing which is in the eye of
the beholder.  What one person sees as harmless humor another may see
as sexism, racism, etc.  The first person, getting flamed for their
harmless joke may well look to see if they are really aware of what's
involved.  The second person, seeing sexism, must ask themself whether
or not they are making a projection, and what their own internal
psychology is puting into their perceptions.  Exactly the same joke
may be sexist when told by one person, and harmless, even anti-sexist
when told by another. An interesting example.  I recently visited a
friend of mine who was also being visited by a woman friend.  My friend
is a great appreciator of sexual jokes, many of which would probably
be called sexist by PC types.  He doesn't tell them in questionable
circumstances, being sensitive to the state of those around, however.
The woman who was visiting asked him which cab company would be best
to go out to the airport.  He replied that X company would be better,
on the balance of probabilities, since Y company had mostly arab
drivers who had sometimes been known to be disrespectful toward female
passengers. Question: is he being sexist, anti-arab, or considerate of
the needs of a guest?
  You can tell your allies by the twinkle in their eye, not by the
grimness of their face.
bv
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands
From: halderen@fwi.uva.nl (Berry van Halderen (I88))
Subject: Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!
Keywords: femal breast bosom
Organization: FWI, University of Amsterdam
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:41:46 GMT

s1006420@titan.ucc.umass.edu (If you want peace work for justice) writes:

>In article <annius.718390197@freyr> annius@sif.research.ptt.nl (Annius Groenink) writes:
>>wuytswin@athena.research.ptt.nl (Wuijtswinkel R. van) writes:
>>
>>>Hello,
>>
>>>I've got a special question for everyone who wants to respond. It may look a
>>>bit strange, but a friend of mine wants to write an article about the
>>>following:
>>
>>>    The femal bosom (breast).
>>
>>A very good friend :-) :-) [wicked willie?]
>>
>>OK girls. Put your breasts on the scanner and FAX them to PTT Research. Will you
>>bring me a copy, Ronald?

>I see a lot of sexism on USENET, such as the post above. I am not
>in favor of sexism, racism, etc. and I also do not the like the
>condescending (when not demeaning) way which sexist men refer to women,
>an exact paralel of the way racist whites address people of color.
>I think this needs to improve.

Sexism? Sorry I can't see any sexism in it; this is just having a bit of
fun. If you can't take it, don't read it. No real intention for discrimination
is behind these postings, clearly.
I'm getting a bit sick of women who keep accusing men of being sexist. Of
course there are sexists, but most accusements are totally blind feminism.
Men are different from women, they sometimes express themself differently
and (research has shown) sex play a more important role in men society.
Is this wrong? Are men not allowed to be the way they are? Mainly no one
really gets hurt except people who find _themselves_ less then men.

\Berry
-- 
/* 1st law for prg optimalization:       x       Berry A.W. van Halderen    */
/*  Don't do it.                        |x|      Email: halderen@fwi.uva.nl */
/* 2nd law for prg optimalization:       --                                 */
/*  For experts only: Don't do it yet.   x       University of Amsterdam    */
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
From: pound@ruf.rice.edu (Christopher Brian Pound)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
Subject: Re: Changes in Methodology
Date: 14 Oct 92 04:51:11 GMT
Organization: Rice University

In article <1992Oct14.004945.2088@midway.uchicago.edu> coonstot@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>	I refer you to the methodological arugmentation published by
>anthropologists for at least the last 20 years.  There are a
>number of anthropologists interested in reversing old methods to
>avoid subjectivism in their writings.  For a few samples, see the
>writings of James Clifford, Clifford Geertz, Victor Turner,
>Marshall Sahlins(who is here at the University of Chicago),
>Michelle Zimbalist Rosaldo, Sherry B. Ortner, Alfonso Ortiz . . .

Whoa! Hey, thanks for skipping right over the most revolutionary of the bunch
(George Marcus, Michael Fischer, Steve Tyler ;).

I'll have to ask where it was published, but George's most concise statements
on this topic are in an article called "Past, present, and emergent identities:
requirements for ethnographies of late twentieth century modernity worldwide."

Forgive me for not wanting to type the whole thing (or even a reasonable
synopsis, really) in; I'll be excessively brief. . .

George calls for:
	Remaking the observed
		Problematizing the spatial: a break with the trope of community
			in realist ethnography
		Problematizing the temporal: a break with the trope of history
			in realist ethnography
		Problematizing perspective/voice: a break with the trope of
			structure in realist ethnography
	Remaking the observer
		The appropriation through dialogue of a text's conceptual
			apparatus
		Bifocality
		Critical juxtapositions and contemplation of alternative
			possibilities
(it's painfully symmetrical, but an OK scheme :)

The ethnographies he holds up as exemplars include:
	Fischer and Abedi's _Debating Muslims_
	Herzfeld's _Anthropology Through the Looking Glass_
	Kapferer's _Legends of People, Myths of State_
	Latour's _Pasteurization of France_
	Rabinow's _French Modern_
	Siegel's _Solo in the New Order_
	Taussig's _Shamanism, Colonialism, and the Wild Man_

Don't know how helpful that is, but I was just feeling a little academically
marginalized.

-- 
Christopher Pound	+	I am human by my hands and my feet, my guts,
Anthro Grad Student	+	my meat heart, my stomach whose knots fasten
pound@ruf.rice.edu	+	me to the rot of life.	   -- Antonin Artaud
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands
From: fijma@cs.utwente.nl (Duco Fijma)
Subject: Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!
Keywords: femal breast bosom
Organization: University of Twente, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 08:47:55 GMT

In article <BvtoDq.LLH@apollo.hp.com>, nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:

[Breasts deleated]

|> 
|>   Jezus, Esther (and Marieke, etc) is there some compelling reason why 
|>   you insist on posting to a worldwide distribution in Dutch?
|> 
|>   First of all, your comments appear to be directed at your compatriots
|>   so a worldwide distribution is inappropriate.

Bullshit! The two main languages on these group are Dutch and English. The Dutch
language is one of the main topics of this group. If you aren't interested,
please unsubscribe.

|> 
|>   Second, unlike, say, French or Spanish or English, Dutch is not very 
|>   widely spoken outside of the Netherlands.  So these messages are not
|>   likely to be read or understood by anyone outside your borders in
|>   the first place, except for Dutch travelers, students, etc, who most
|>   likely speak English.    When I was in The Netherlands last year

And for this people, this group was created. Furthermore, believe it or not, there
are foreigners interested in Dutch language. 

|>   virtually everyone spoke English -- I've traveled all over the world
|>   and I've never been to a non-native-English-speaking country where
|>   where such a large percentage of the poulation spoke English as 
|>   The Netherlands.          

So this means we are not allowed to speak Dutch anymore? 

|>   You can hardly argue that keeping these postings in Dutch is avoiding
|>   the embarassment of "washing your dirty laundry in public" since the 
|>   damage was already done in the original postings which were in English. 
|> ---peter
|> 

--

Duco Fijma               tel. X31-53-893718
University of Twente     fax. X31-53-893811 
P.O. Box 217             internet: fijma@cs.utwente.nl
7500 AE  Enschede        
The Netherlands          | No ugly pictures in this sig! |
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands
From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:46:26 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA
Keywords: femal breast bosom

In article <1992Oct9.094006.18735@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> helene@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Helene Blankespoor) writes:
>In article <BvtoDq.LLH@apollo.hp.com> nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
>>  Jezus, Esther (and Marieke, etc) is there some compelling reason why 
>>  you insist on posting to a worldwide distribution in Dutch?
>
>There are more Dutch worldwide then you think and we might just prefer
>to be able to read and write in Dutch for a change. This is after all
>s.c.n. 

  But it's not *just* s.c.n -- it's also posted to sci.anthropology.
  I have no objection to posters in soc.culture.<whatever> posting in
  the language of <whatever> -- but if you make worldwide distributions
  in a more general newsgroup you should consider your audience.


---peter



Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands
From: a3@rivm.nl (Adri Verhoef)
Subject: Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!
Followup-To: soc.culture.netherlands
Organization: Rijksinstituut voor Volksgezondheid en Milieuhygiene,Bilthoven,NL
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 03:11:09 GMT

>  P'K> Or maybe they the Dutch don't have any other Dutch newsgroups? When I
>  P'K> was in Eindhoven I could only find two local Dutch newsgroups,
>  P'K> nlnet.misc and nlnet.general.

muts@fys.ruu.nl (Peter Mutsaers) writes:
>
>Indeed, those are the only ones, except for even more local
>(university) newsgroups.

No.  Nlnet.general doesn't exist anymore, so it should be rmgroup'd if it
exists at your site.  And we (nlnetters) are in the process of discussing
more and new nlnet newsgroups.  This has already led to the creation of
nlnet.announce.  At the moment there is a vote going on for nlnet.taal.

A-doei, Adri
-- 
* Slade Mailing List:  slade-request@rivm.nl                |       ,==.
* European top 20               : a3@rivm.nl                |      /U  |
* Nederlandse songfragmentenquiz: a3@rivm.nl (Adri Verhoef) |     /_  <
* Dutch Artists Lyrics Quiz     : a3@rivm.nl                |    =" `g'
From: genie@soda.berkeley.edu (Jeannie Yang)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
Subject: Looking for jokes....
Date: 17 Oct 1992 00:47:01 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu


I'm looking for anthropologist jokes, so if anyone knows of any, please
send it to this account.  Thanks in advance.

-- 
					|	"People who like this sort of
	    Jeannie Yang  <:0)		|thing will find this the sort of thing
	genie@soda.berkeley.edu		|they like."
    Department of Anthropology, UCB	|    --- book review by Abraham Lincoln
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
From: s1006420@titan.ucc.umass.edu (If you want peace work for justice)
Subject: Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!
Keywords: femal breast bosom
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 19:47:07 GMT

In article <burt.718740331@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca> burt@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca (Burt Voorhees) writes:
>>I had a feeling when reading posts like these that the year was more
>>1984 then 1992.
>
>>Education is now police, war is peace and sexism is sexuality...
>>and also making sexist jokes does not reinforce sexism but
>>critiques it...
>
>>I would hope someday we will see less double-speak and more sense...
>
>>Vera B.
>
>  It seems to me that the major issue here is not only social but
>psychological.  

Well, on this we agree, because racism, sexism etcism is always social as
well as psychological.

>Beauty is not the only thing which is in the eye of
>the beholder.  What one person sees as harmless humor another may see
>as sexism, racism, etc.  

People who are racist do not see any harm is racist jokes (or
anything racist for that matter) and so for sexism, etc.
Some posts are  good examples of this...

>The first person, getting flamed for their
>harmless joke may well look to see if they are really aware of what's
>involved.  The second person, seeing sexism, must ask themself whether
>or not they are making a projection, and what their own internal
>psychology is puting into their perceptions.  Exactly the same joke
>may be sexist when told by one person, and harmless, even anti-sexist
>when told by another. 

I would suggest books such as the one you criticize... but if you 
already consider them to be thought police without knowing what 
they say, what can one say...

>An interesting example.  I recently visited a
>friend of mine who was also being visited by a woman friend.  My friend
>is a great appreciator of sexual jokes, many of which would probably
>be called sexist by PC types.  

And which would not be called sexist by ppl who are sexist...

>He doesn't tell them in questionable
>circumstances, being sensitive to the state of those around, however.

Very sensitive, I see...

>The woman who was visiting asked him which cab company would be best
>to go out to the airport.  He replied that X company would be better,
>on the balance of probabilities, since Y company had mostly arab
>drivers who had sometimes been known to be disrespectful toward female
>passengers. Question: is he being sexist, anti-arab, or considerate of
>the needs of a guest?
>  You can tell your allies by the twinkle in their eye, not by the
>grimness of their face.
>bv

I think the question is: how to educate ppl on the issues related to
sexism, gender, sexuality,  etc.? is it possible on USENET? It's 
certainly badly needed IMHO...perhaps having discussions related to
good books on the topics being that if you wanted to join the
discussion you would have to read the chapter or book concerned -
that might help - and it might also get the level of discussions
higher then what they are at present...- just a thought...

Vera B.
From: petek@vipunen.hut.fi (Petri 'Pete' Karha)
Subject: Re: Female breast (bosom) experience wanted!
Keywords: femal breast bosom
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date:  9 Oct 92 12:17:57 GMT

In <BvtoDq.LLH@apollo.hp.com> nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:
>  Jezus, Esther (and Marieke, etc) is there some compelling reason why 
>  you insist on posting to a worldwide distribution in Dutch?

Most of the people here write in Dutch. The reason I can't understand. I
mean what interesting can there be talking about Dutch culture only
among Dutch speaking people? Looks to me that Dutch people have the same
attitude to their language as the French.

Or maybe they the Dutch don't have any other Dutch newsgroups? When I
was in Eindhoven I could only find two local Dutch newsgroups,
nlnet.misc and nlnet.general.

Not that I would complain. I can alvays unsubscribe or leave the Dutch
articles unread, as I mostly do. So can you. But still, it would be
sometimes nice to hear something from Neatherlands in english, as I
haven't been there for over one year.
-- 
s32852b@puukko.hut.fi ! Petri 'Pete' Karha    ! Helsinki University of Tech.
petek@otax.tky.hut.fi ! Kirstinharju 11 L 198 ! Metrology Research Institute
petek@vipunen.hut.fi  ! SF-02760 Espoo        ! Tel: +358-0-4512282
Tel: +358-0-8053655   ! FINLAND the FUNLAND   ! Fax: +358-0-460224
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
Subject: Re: Just a comment
From: maven@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jim Baltaxe)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 10:01:24 GMT
Organization: Victoria University of Wellington

In article <Bvs8ry.JtM@acsu.buffalo.edu> v064lnev@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Avatar) writes:
>Hello folks,
>
>	Ya know, I don't really mind all this hub-bub about breasts -- in
>retrospect it might even be funny.  However, what's really starting to annoy
>me ad nauseum are all these damn posts written in foreign languages!  8-)
>
>	Anyone out there know what I mean?
>
>--Zerxes

I think I do - so let's not get into a language-ist flame war!

I do have another small comment, which I am a bit cautious about
making because so much of the preceeding discussion was in another
language which I haven't the strength to puzzle out (I am hoping that
I could do so on the basis of my limited knowledge of german):

I am wondering whether there was a serious question buried in amongst
all the tittering (ouch - I couldn't resist it :-) and whether anybody
might get around to answering it. Is the Western/Dutch/whatever
fascination with female breast size & shape anthropologically (read
cross-culturally) significant in some definable way?

BTW why is the net traffic always so bloody PREDICTABLE!?!




-- 
Jim Baltaxe - jim.baltaxe@vuw.ac.nz
Computing Services Centre - Victoria University of Wellington - New Zealand
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Time is such a valuable commodity because they're not making it any more.
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,soc.culture.netherlands