From: fcw@telecom.ti.com (Fred Wedemeier)
Subject: Re: Newsgroup proposal: alt.amateur-computerist
Reply-To: fcw@telecom.ti.com
Organization: TI Telecom Systems, Dallas
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:24:10 GMT

In article 28125@news.ysu.edu, ae547@yfn.ysu.edu (Ronda Hauben) writes:
> 
>               alt.amateur-computerist Charter
>  
>      Alt.amateur-computerist is a conference where readers
> and writers can discuss the articles and subjects that appear in 
> the electronic and printed newsletter "The Amateur Computerist".  
> 
and ...

>   One of the reasons for proposing this group is that there is
> currently no place on usenet that we know of where issues involving
> computers and workers are dealt with.
> 

I think you're proposing two separate things here. If the charter of
the group focuses solely on "The Amateur Computerist" newsletter, you'd
have a very limited readership - not that that's necessarily bad,
considering some of the other stuff in the alt heirarchy.

If, instead, the charter of the group relates to the larger issues
involving computers and workers, as you suggest in your closing
paragraph, the group would be of a lot wider interest.

In a followup, elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
suggests using:

> alt.society.futures     The future(s) of society.
> comp.edu                Computer science education.
> comp.society.futures    Events in technology affecting future computing.
> misc.jobs.misc          Discussion about employment, workplaces, careers.
> sci.med.occupational    Preventing, detecting & treating occupational injuries.

I don't think these address your concerns. From what I read into your
posting, the issues you want to deal with are addressed in the
excellent, excellent, excellent, book, "In the Age of the Smart
Machine," by Shoshana Zuboff (ISBN 0-465-03212-5). Pardon my use of
net bandwidth, but following is a quote from the dust cover:

  {In the Age of the Smart Machine} is about a new watershed in human
  history. As advanced information technology diffuses across the
  economic landscape, it transforms the nature of work and presents us
  with a fateful choice. Professor Zuboff demonstrates that computers may
  merely further automate blue- and white-coller jobs, achieving
  unprecedented speed and consistancy, robbing workers of whatever skill
  and gratification they may retain, and increasing the impersonality and
  remoteness of management. That same technology, however, may
  "informate," empowering ordinary working people with overall knowledge
  of the production process, making them capable of critical and
  collaborative judgements about production and distribution. As these
  new opportunities unfold, the function of management and the
  conventions of work organization are transfigured. Ironically, Zuboff
  argues, if those in command choose to automate rather than "informate,"
  many of the commercial advantages of computer-guided administration,
  production, and distribution will be lost.

If these are the kinds of things you want to address, I suggest you
re-name the group and broaden the charter. I _don't_ think my viewpoint
and opinions will match yours [ :-) ], but I look forward to some lively
discussion!


---
Fred Wedemeier    pho: 214-997-3213     fax: 214-997-3639
                timsg: fcw             inet: fcw@pioneer.telecom.ti.com

Newsgroups: comp.programming