From: rvanderb@nyx.cs.du.edu (Rian van der Borgt)
Subject: Re: riding against traffic; bikepaths
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Date: Sun, 6 Sep 92 15:07:17 GMT

Thomas H. Kunich writes:
>In article <1992Sep5.205459.15294@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> rvanderb@
      nyx.cs.du.edu (Rian van der Borgt) writes:
>>
>>I almost can't believe that someone would even consider to ride
>>against traffic. Here (in the Netherlands, that is) noone would
>>ever think of it.
 
>Rian, it is against the law here also. But it is seldom
>enforced. And it is actually rare for people to ride on the
 (...)
>The discsussion here is probably misleading becasue it has to do with
>methods of informing these uninformed riders of the law. There is the
 (...)
>>Here most bikepaths are on the side of the roads and cyclists
>>(almost) always have to use them.
 
>The question here is how fast do you ride on the bikepaths there.
>The information we have here is that dutch commuters are
>rather sedate (slow). That is fine in a country where distances
>are in single digit kilometers. Here the average commute might be
>closer to 25 km one way. Bicycle commuters are then pressured
>to ride at much higher speeds.
 
They may be slower on average, but I never had any problems when I
wanted to cycle rather fast (That's 28-30 km/hour on a standard bike
with 3 gears, and an 8-10 kg bag on it...no light weight race bike)
I guess that's because there are only cyclists on the path..
>Bicycle paths that cross roads are generally considered to
>be very dangerous because neither bicyclist or motorist
>expect the other to appear at right angle to his path.
>In the USA 90% of the bicycle path accidents occur at these
>points.
 
I could understand that a motorist doen't expect a cyclist (not many
cyclists in traffic) but isn't it a bit strange that a cyclist
doesn't excpect a motorist? Or did they never learn to pay attention
when they ride? If I don't expect cars or cyclists to appear when I
ride or drive, I would cause a _lot_ of accidents...
 
>Also it must be said that bicycle paths in the USA are generally
>constructed as multiple use recreational pathways and are often
>covered with joggers, walkers, people walking dogs both on and
>off leashes, children, children on small slow bicycles etc. Add
>to this the problem that these recreational pathways are seldom
>designed to commute from one point to another on and you can see
>the problem here.
 
Indeed. The bicycles paths here are designed to commute and seldom
have joggers, walkers, etc on them. I guess that has to do with
a different attitude towards cycling.
 
>>Here, a bike _is_ considered as a means to go from A to B (to
>>go shopping, to go to work, to school, to go out, etc).
>>From my 12th to my 18th I rode to school (12 km) every day,
                        One way, that was...^^
 
>Students still use bicycles, particularly those in college and
>on a limited income (that's most.) But bicycling, for reasons
>that are rather difficult for me to understand, has never become
>a very important means of transportation.
 
>In the future, when gasoline and other cheap energy resources
>become scarce and expensive, we will see the bicycle make it's
You're very right here. I Always felt that gasoline was _way_
too cheap in the USA. Here it's about $1.15 per liter ...that
would be over $5 per gallon. (and that's about average in W-Europe)
What's the price over there?
(and when is it going to raise? If (When :-) Clinton gets elected?)
 
Rian van der Borgt
email: u249011@hnykun11.urc.kun.nl
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc