HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wood@eisley.akita.com (Ken Wood)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Travelling armed
Summary: Support ALL of the Bill of Rights!
Keywords: constitution BoR amendments pigs playing poker
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 02:30:57 PDT
Organization: Mos Eisley Spaceport BBS

waymire@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Richard Waymire) writes:

> Anyway, have a nice day, support the first and second amendments, and keep
> talking about it.  That's what this country's all about.
> 

     Yes but support ALL of the Bill of Rights, all TEN amendments to the 
constitution, not just the first two.  They are all important parts of 
our rights.  Never forget any of them.  The first may be in some danger 
and the second may be really under fire, but the 9th and 10th are all but 
dead and the 4th is going fast.  These are YOUR rights that are going 
away here.

     Ken Wood



+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| wood@eisley.akita.com           :     Don't eat the rocks.              |
| eisley!wood@polari.online.com   : -The First Law of Bovine Cogitation.- |
| wood@seanews.akita.com          :                                       |
| wood@pismo.wa.com               :     Who let the pigs play poker?      |
| (In above order of preference.) :     Evo Shander was right!            |
| "Don't look back, someth'in might be gaining on ya."  -- Satchel Page   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: chuckh@apex.com (Chuck Huffington)
Subject: Re: Travelling armed
Keywords: Guns laws crime murder waiting periods 
Organization: Apex Computer Company
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:50:53 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.232601.7483@eskimo.celestial.com> wix@eskimo.celestial.com (Dennis Wicks) writes:
> So, where/how does one get a carry permit?

Local police department.  Several are delaying permits far beyond what
state law allows.  So far, threats of legal action have been cutting
through the red-tape (in Redmond).  I hear Bellevue is being difficult.

> Where do you go to get instruction and practice?

Thre are a couple of good instructers in this area.
Contact me by email for a list. For practice
there are several ranges:

Interlake (Kirkland), members only
Marysville
Issaquah
Kenmore
Seattle Police/Athletic (May be private)
Renton
Snoqualmie/Fall City
Gun Works (indoor Everett)
Continental Sportsmen (indoor Mtlk Terrace)
Eby Island (near Everett)

There are a lot of places where informal practice happens.
I won't list them, none are close,  I feel they are used by 
too many irresponsible people to be safe.

> I suppose that it is possible to buy a pistol
> at any of the gun shops in the area.  Does
> Washington state, King Co. or Seattle have
> a waiting period?

There is a state waiting period.  It does not apply if you
have a carry permit.  State law does not allow more restrictive
local firearms laws.
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: moore@tc.fluke.COM (Matt Moore)
Subject: Re: Drug Laws (WAS: Re: Travelling armed)
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:29:41 GMT

In article <3940016@iftccu.boeing.com> bressler@iftccu.boeing.com (Rick Bressler) writes:
>
>MMM, I haven't seen any figures yet that indicate that the 'cost' of tobacco
>is significantly greater than the 2-3 BILLON collected each year in tobacco 
>taxes.  It's just a re-distribution.  Perhaps it would fairer to everybody 
>if cigarette taxes were diverted from cleaning up the Pudget Sound
>and other such unrelated items to supporting the health care industry.
>
>Rick.

 For many years now the U.S. Surgeon General's office has been saying that
c. 400,000 Americans die each year from diseases caused by smoking tobacco
(300,000 from lung cancer, most of the rest from emphysema & heart disease).
These are people with chronic illnesses who tend to linger for months or
years, racking up huge medical bills. If we make a WAG of $50,000 for each
case, that comes to $20 billion per year in direct medical costs alone.

 I have no idea how to estimate indirect costs such as lost productivity,
pain, and suffering, but as another WAG indirect costs are probably
comparable to direct costs.

 To get to your figure of $2 billion, we would have to assume that an
American can still die of cancer for $5,000 - a ridiculously low figure.

 If you accept the idea that social cost-benefit analysis can ever be a
sufficient excuse for forbidding individual behavior that does not
threaten others, then there is a clear order of priority: tobacco should
be outlawed first (400,000 d/y), then alcolhol (100,000 d/y), and last of
all the current "controlled substances" (10,000 d/y combined).

						Matt Moore
						John Fluke Mfg. Co.
						my opinions are just that
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: moore@tc.fluke.COM (Matt Moore)
Subject: Re: Travelling armed
Keywords: Guns laws crime murder waiting periods
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:52:02 GMT

In article <2891@voodoo.UUCP> mnb@voodoo.boeing.com (Mike Burr) writes:
>I'm not convienced of the claims that
>drug use [and the problems associated with it] would not increase if drugs
>were cheaper, more accessable, and somewhat safer.

 I agree. When I was in college I used drugs, because they were fun,
cheap, and socially accepted (and besides, I was too young to buy liquor
legally). The police left us college kids alone as long as we didn't deal
drugs off campus. When I left college I stopped using drugs, partly
because the fun had tapered off, but mostly because getting caught looked
more likely and the consequences of getting caught (lost job, criminal
record, civil forfeiture) looked scarier.

 From what I read about alcolhol Prohibition, consumption seems to have
gone down by about 1/3 after passage of the Volstead Act, stayed at that
level throughout the 30's, and rebounded after Repeal.

>If drug usage increases
>under legalization we might be trading the reduced crime aspect [which I
>accept] for increased social costs in other areas.  The tough question is
>which cost is greater to society?

 The consequences of illegality are much more costly to society. Whole
areas of our cities have been effectively abandoned, with levels of
violence that remind me of Beirut or Columbia. Poor children see perverse
role models all around them - the hard working honest person with no money
in his pocket vs. the gun-slinging drug dealer with $20,000 worth of gold
chain around his neck. Criminal gangs have become so strong that local
governments negotiate with them, and go on TV to boast about the
"treaties" that they sign.

 People were smarter 50 years ago. It only took them 13 years to see that
whatever harm alcolhol did, the cost of outlawing it was much worse.

						Matt Moore
						John Fluke Mfg. Co.
						my opinions are just that
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: davidb@zeus.ce.washington.edu (David W. Barts)
Subject: Re: Travelling armed (was: Results of I-590)
Organization: University of Washington
Distribution: seattle
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:32:33 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.161234.5072@seanews.akita.com>, billmcc@seanews.akita.com (Bill McCormick) writes:
> In article <1992Jul20.060118.234@u.washington.edu> davidb@zeus.ce.washington.edu (David W. Barts) writes:
> >In article <1733@rwing.UUCP>, pat@rwing.UUCP (Pat Myrto) writes:
> >> WISDOM:    "Travelling unarmed is like boating without a life jacket" 
> >  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >I don't want to even get started on that one (or did I just volunteer
> >myself to write a several-hundred-line essay on it :-) ).
> 
> This is something I completely and absolutely agree with.  It only took one
> experience set set this firmly in my mind after an interesting experience in
> a hotel.
> . . .

Okay, I'll get started on this one after all [and finished, too -- I've
just about done a complete mind dump on this issue and I think I've said
enough already].

My vision of the ultimate distopia (sp?) consists of a society with such a
high level of random violence that one is forced to take part in this
violence on a kill-or-be-killed basis.  I view this as far worse than a
totalitarian distopia, because in the situation of a totalitarian
situation, I at least have the option of fighting to overthrow said
government by violent revolution (and I believe that other Americans
would be fighting for this cause, too).  But in the former scenario,
any nonviolent means of change is doomed to failure (I'd just be
shot/stabbed/clubbed to death), and any violent attempt would simply
become part of the random noise level of violence in society.

Both the line in Pat's .sig (and your story, and other similar stories
I've heard) present disturbing evidence to me that America is headed
toward this distopia full steam ahead.

Whether we'll get there or not is a different story.  Chaotic
situations usually lead to a demand for order-at-all-costs, which isn't
a very rosy scenario in itself.

--
David Barts  N5JRN                      UW Civil Engineering, FX-10
davidb@zeus.ce.washington.edu           Seattle, WA  98195
    If AT&T is 'Ma Bell', does this make ITT 'Cousin ITT'?
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum)
Subject: Re: Travelling armed
Keywords: Guns laws crime murder waiting periods 
Organization: >>> Eskimo North (206)-FOR-EVER <<<
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:34:38 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.155053.29511@apex.com> chuckh@apex.com (Chuck Huffington) writes:
[...]
>There are a lot of places where informal practice happens.
>I won't list them, none are close,  I feel they are used by 
>too many irresponsible people to be safe.
[...]
If they are unsafe people ought to know about them, so they know what to
avoid.
-- 
kurt@grogatch.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum)
From: wood@eisley.akita.com (Ken Wood)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Travelling armed
Summary: Clarification on what I meant regarding the LA riots.
Keywords: Guns laws crime murder waiting periods 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 03:53:11 PDT
Organization: Mos Eisley Spaceport BBS

alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com (David Butler) writes:

>    I think you're a little off base with this one.  The riots occured
> the same day as the court decision aquiting the officers.  To have
> obtained guns during the LA riot to defend oneself, a person would have
> to have run to a gun shop while the rioting was occuring.  If businesses
> were selling guns over the counter during the riot, then rioters (who
> outnumbered everyone else on the streets) would have been in there
> purchaseing guns just as well.  Shop owners would have had no way to
> tell the difference.
> 

     I admit that for the first day of the riots this would not have 
helped at all, but the riots lasted for several days and some areas were 
not affected till the later days.  I assume that owners of gun stores in 
the riot areas would not be selling anything but in other areas people 
could have obtained firearms for self defence.  They might not have 
needed them that very second but the need could occure very soon after.  
Also if the rioting had lasted longer and spread further, a situation 
that could have easily happened, then many people initialy removed from 
the riot areas could have been effected.  I was not arguing that someone 
in the middle of the riot could have dashed into a gun store for a quick 
purchase.  :-)  Rather I was thinking of people who were initially in 
areas that were not within the riots but later came to be, or people who 
for some reason really had to enter the areas.  Although I think it would 
have to be a really good reason to go into those areas such as haveing to 
pickup a friend or relative or something on that level.  Well I just 
wanted to clarify what I meant.  See you all later.

     Ken Wood



+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| wood@eisley.akita.com           :     Don't eat the rocks.              |
| eisley!wood@polari.online.com   : -The First Law of Bovine Cogitation.- |
| wood@seanews.akita.com          :                                       |
| wood@pismo.wa.com               :     Who let the pigs play poker?      |
| (In above order of preference.) :     Evo Shander was right!            |
| "Don't look back, someth'in might be gaining on ya."  -- Satchel Page   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: kiml@Data-IO.COM (Kim Durwood)
Subject: House Painter wanted (Eastside)
Organization: Data I/O Corporation
Distribution: seattle
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:02:39 GMT

We are looking for recommendations (or warnings) for a house painter.
We are renting a vintage small house in Kirkland which needs some
paint desperately.

Can any net people out there recommend someone?


Thanks!

Kim Durwood

kiml@Data-IO.COM
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: davidb@zeus.ce.washington.edu (David W. Barts)
Subject: Re: Government grants privileges? (was: Re: DWI)
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 23:04:33 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.162431.1706@kopachuk.uucp>, dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman) writes:
> [ edited ]
> In light of these comments, I pose two talking points:
> 
> 1) If cars had been around in the 18th century, our right to own
>    them would be guaranteed by the Constitution.

Horses and buggies were around in the 18th century and the Constitution
does not explicitly guarantee the right to own them.

> 2) If cars had not appeared until after world war II, their private
>    ownership would be illegal.

Personal computers did not appear until after World War II, and their
private ownership is legal.

> Well?

Both premises appear to be unrealistic.

--
David Barts  N5JRN                      UW Civil Engineering, FX-10
davidb@ce.washington.edu                Seattle, WA  98195
NIS hosts maps (n.) - Sun's way of making you pine for the good old
                      days of FTPing hosts maps from SRI-NIC.ARPA.
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: irving@Happy-Man.com (Irving_Wolfe)
Subject: Re: Travelling armed
Keywords: Guns laws crime murder waiting periods
Bcc: irving
Reply-To: Irving_Wolfe@Happy-Man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Distribution: pnw
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:18:40 GMT

In <1992Jul28.060644.846@u.washington.edu> davidb@zeus.ce.washington.edu (David W. Barts) writes:

[writing about the suggestion that all drug laws be wiped out]
>Don't be silly.  In that case, drug users would simply continue to
>steal to pay for their habit.  

Not so!  Without drug laws, a days worth of cocaine or heroin might
cost a dollar.  There would be no need to steal, since a few
minutes' begging would yield enough for the day's food and drugs.

But that reduction in crime is only the small part of the benefit
to society.

The inability to sell high-priced narcotics in a market with little
competition would essentially put the gangs and gangsters out of
business.  Thus all the political corruption, all the infiltration
and looting of honest businesses, all the gang-related violence,
and most of the sideline gang activities like loan sharking,
prostitution, etc. would go away.

The biggest lobbying organization for keeping drugs as illegal as
possible is funded by the Mafia.  For good business reasons.

-- 
 Irving_Wolfe@Happy-Man.com      Happy Man Corp. 206/463-9399 x101
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@Happy-Man.com
From: jdt@voodoo.boeing.com (Jim Tomlinson)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: N. Seattle Toyota mechanic rec. request
Keywords: auto mechanic, Toyota
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:35:36 GMT
Reply-To: jdt@voodoo.boeing.com
Organization: BoGART To You, Buddy


I've asked before, but the firm recommended (Edward's Automotive on
Aurora) didn't exactly dazzle me with their work.  My wife's Tercel is
now losing quite a bit of oil (out the side of the engine, not the
tailpipe), so it's back to the shop.  I'm tempted to go to Sears, just
'cuz they've been busted so recently they might not try any funny
stuff, but on the other hand, I probably wouldn't vote for Nixon on
that basis.  Anyone had a good experience with a North Seattle mechanic
dealing with Toyota/other Japanese cars?  Much thanks in advance.
-- 
Jim Tomlinson    BoGART Project    Boeing Computer Services    Bellevue, WA
jdt@voodoo.boeing.com       ...uunet!bcstec!voodoo!jdt        (206)865-6578 
         "Airplanes are cool." - the man on the street in Seattle
From: robs@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert Sipe)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Results of I 590
Date: 28 Jul 92 23:37:59 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Boeing

In article <3089@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> waymire@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Richard Waymire) writes:
>
>OK, interesting reading (a rehash of T.P.G, but oh well).  But I have a Seattle
>question... What do you guys think about the upcoming Seattle policy of paying
>$50 for any gun turned into the police?  I have changed radio stations because

Here, here !!  KMPS or KRPM would never go for this.




-- 

Robert Sipe                       Tell your state reps "NO" to the proposed
robs@bcstec.boeing.com            $.25 gax tax increase proposal.
From: markz@ssc.wa.com (Mark Zenier)
Subject: Re: Must See's in Seattle, Where?
Organization: SSC, Inc., Seattle, WA
Distribution: pnw
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:59:09 GMT
Keywords: touring

In article <2855@voodoo.UUCP> das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz) writes:
>It has been pointed out to me that there are legitimate reasons for having
>paved trails (such as for people in wheelchairs and others who are not
>physically able to negotiate unpaved trails) so I hereby retract my
>'argh' and apologize to anyone who I may have offended.

Not to mention that the growing season that high is very short and
it can take decades for a trampled site to regrow.  It's easier to
keep people on the trail when it's paved.  Given the number of
visitors the park gets, you can't treat it like a wilderness and have
it survive.

Mark Zenier  markz@ssc.wa.com  

Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: markz@ssc.wa.com (Mark Zenier)
Subject: Re: Must See's in Seattle, Where?
Organization: SSC, Inc., Seattle, WA
Distribution: pnw
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:51:25 GMT

In article <2848@voodoo.UUCP> zombie@voodoo.boeing.com writes:
>
>A visit to the Larry's in White Center is not to be missed.  ;^)

Well, the beer selection is better than the QFC.
But you still have to go to the Food Giant if you want Jolt.

Mark Zenier  markz@ssc.wa.com
From: jdt@voodoo.boeing.com (Jim Tomlinson)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Yet Another N. Seattle Mechanic Request (YANSMR?)
Date: 27 Jul 92 16:28:17 GMT
Reply-To: jdt@voodoo.boeing.com
Organization: BoGART To You, Buddy


    I asked last week about Toyota mechanics in North Seattle.  BTW,
the engine was spewing oil due to a cracked oil sender unit;
eskimo!mann (I lost your full name, and no reply path works) wins the
stuffed bear for correctly diagnosing the problem without ever laying
eyes on the car.
    Anyway, here's another one for y'all.  I believe I need a
transmission shop in N. Seattle, unless the wisdom of the net can
fathom this one.  Pulling out of a gas station last night, there was a
resounding clunk!, and suddenly we had no gears.  The (standard)
transmission felt like the 4-speed+reverse pattern was gone, replaced
by a random set of points (it felt like a transmission implementation
of the drunkard's walk).  We got it into something that resembled
neutral, and pushed it _backwards_ into a parking spot.  After much
hemming and hawing as to what to do, I decided to try it again before
calling the tow truck, and lo-and-behold, the transmission had
magically been healed (and Jimmy Swaggart was not even in the
neighborhood).  Any ideas on the cause of this fleeting malady, or
transmission shop rec's in N. Seattle?
    Thanx much in advance.
-- 
Jim Tomlinson    BoGART Project    Boeing Computer Services    Bellevue, WA
jdt@voodoo.boeing.com       ...uunet!bcstec!voodoo!jdt        (206)865-6578 
         "Airplanes are cool." - the man on the street in Seattle
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum)
Subject: Re: mechanic wanted for diesel VW
Organization: >>> Eskimo North (206)-FOR-EVER <<<
Distribution: seattle
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 16:11:35 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.191352.18956@beaver.cs.washington.edu> mccann@june.cs.washington.edu (Cathy McCann) writes:
>I am looking for recommendations for good mechanics to
>service my aging diesel VW rabbit.  I'd prefer places in
>and around the Renton area, but I'm not really picky.  Also,
>if you have recommendations for places to avoid, I'm all ears.

Please post -- I've got an (not so -- `84!) old VW Rabbit truck.
Also, are there any decent Datsun mechanix out there (for my ancient
`74 Datsun).

Nobody has replied to my request for South End housepainter recommendations.

-- 
kurt@grogatch.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: bressler@iftccu.boeing.com (Rick Bressler)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Drug Laws (WAS: Re: Travelling armed)
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:11:36 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group

/ iftccu:seattle.general / steven@tc.fluke.COM (Steve Haynes) / 10:06 am  Jul 28, 1992 /
>	*** AND TOBACCO !!!***

>We're paying for it now, with higher health insurance premiums for all.
>When are purveyors of health insurance going to adopt the philosophy of life
>insurance companies, and charge according to the destructiveness of one's
>lifestyle?

MMM, I haven't seen any figures yet that indicate that the 'cost' of tobacco
is significantly greater than the 2-3 BILLON collected each year in tobacco 
taxes.  It's just a re-distribution.  Perhaps it would fairer to everybody 
if cigarette taxes were diverted from cleaning up the Pudget Sound
and other such unrelated items to supporting the health care industry.

Rick.
From: zombie@voodoo.boeing.com (Mike York)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Must See's in Seattle, Where?
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:55:35 GMT
Reply-To: zombie@voodoo.boeing.com
Distribution: pnw
Organization: BoGART System Development

In article <1992Jul22.175125.11466@ssc.wa.com>, markz@ssc.wa.com (Mark Zenier) writes:
|> In article <2848@voodoo.UUCP> zombie@voodoo.boeing.com writes:
|> >
|> >A visit to the Larry's in White Center is not to be missed.  ;^)
|> 
|> Well, the beer selection is better than the QFC.
|> But you still have to go to the Food Giant if you want Jolt.

How true, how true...  That's why I go the extra mile (literally) to Larry's in
White Center.  QFC does keep a fairly fresh stock of Spaten Optimator and the
mainstream micro's, but ya gotta go to Larry's to find those off beat beers.
-- 
    Mike York                     
    Boeing Computer Services     
    (206) 865-6577              
    zombie@voodoo.boeing.com   
Newsgroups: seattle.general