HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: djohanne@comp1.mcs.loral.com (David Johannes)
Subject: SUGGESTIONS BUYING A NEW CAR
Organization: Loral Command & Control Systems
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 21:56:18 GMT

Hello,

	I need some (as much as possible) input from you all.  I am
presently planning to buy a new car.  I have looked and test driven
several, but would like suggestions on other cars to test, information
on problems/features these have, reliability, suggested price to try
to bargain for, or any thing you feel inportant for someone to know
before making a choice.  The cars I have seen so far are:

	Acura Integra GS 3-door
	Honda Prelude Si
	Mitsubishi Eclipse GS
	Mitsubishi 3000GT (not the VR-4 or SL)
	Toyota Celica GT Liftback (and also the GT-S)

I am open to all your suggestions, I would appreciate if you would email
response, because presently I have little time to get on and read news.
If you have any cars to recommend, please provide info (see questions
above).

Thank you for your help.

Dave :-)


+---------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
|  David N. S. Johannes           |  I've seen things you people wouldn't   |
|                                 |  believe...  Attack ships on fire of    |
|  Loral Command and Control      |  shoulder of Orion...  I've watched     |
|  Systems, Colorado Springs, CO  |  c-beams glitter in the dark near the   |
|                                 |  Tanhauser Gate...  All those moments   |
|  Internet:                      |  will be lost in time like tears in     |
|                                 |  rain...  Time to die.                  |
|  djohanne@mcsds3.mcs.loral.com  |                                         |
|  johannes@slab.pr.erau.edu      |                    Blade Runner (1982)  |
+---------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rvkl60@aus18a25.sps.mot.com (Tom Mathes)
Subject: Re: Survey impartiality
Organization: Motorola Inc, Austin, Texas
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:46:24 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.230951.723@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen) writes:
>
>Huh??? Did you even look at it. Before you spout something check
>your sources not your bias.
>
>The Mistubishi Eclipse/Eagle Talon/ Plymouth Laser all have
>******IDENITCAL****** relability ratings! Based on the 92 CU buying
>Guide.
>
>Explain, why would they be identical if the info was not accurate?
>If this American/Japanese phenmonen did in fact exist shouldn't the
>Mistubishi be rated higher than the Plymouth. Regardless, it is
>interesting that they are the same. I think it shows the value of 
>CU.
>
>john
>-- 
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
>"I can't compete with you physically,      /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
>and you're no match for my brains."   	   \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \


I DID check.  Look at the April 1992 issue of "Consumer Reports".  This
is what I found:

-Ford Explorer - Worse than average
 Mazda Navajo- Average

-Eagle Talon - Average
 Plymouth Laser - Average
 Mitsubishi Eclipse - Much better than average

-Geo Prizm - Average
 Toyota Corolla - Much better than average

All of these cars are "badge engineered".  As far as I know, these cars 
have the same mechanicals but differ in trim and/or accessories at most 
(typically the only difference is the name).

In each case, the American nameplate got a worse overall rating than
the Japanese nameplate.

I stand my my assertion that the C/U survey is biased.

Tom
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Car Owner Ship Ta x
Date: 16 Nov 92 15:09:03 GMT
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.

In article <1e88faINNl4f@bigboote.WPI.EDU> beuf@wpi.WPI.EDU (Richard J Fuller) writes:
>I bought a new car in August for $9,450
>
>I just got my local tax bill and it was based on a 
>valuation of $10,200..
>
>What right do they have to claim my car is worth more
>then it is worth to tax me on a higher value???

Sad story time...

In Indiana we pay excise tax for our vehicles. The excise tax is fairly
serious money (ex: 1992 Saturn SL2: $320/yr; a 20,000$ car pays more than
$500-$700). 

As GM employes, we're entitled to various discounts depending on the car
we buy, the price, and the mode of purchase (order, from dealer, etc, 
program car, etc). Our beloved state will not care about the FINAL price
of the car, but rather, the price of the car w/o any options.

This could mean that I could be getting a car at a substantial discount
(let's say program cars) and still pay tax on the FULL amount.

It actually gets better: the excise tax is determined on the base price
of the car w/o any options. Let's take two identical vehicles, on which
one has everything standard (Olds Shilouette (sp!) APV and Chevy 
Lumina APV. The Olds APV stickers at, say, $22K with everything standard.
The Chevy APV starts at $14K and by the time you opt it the same as
the Olds (AC, radio, 3.8 V6, etc, etc) it's close, if not identical,
to the Olds version in both features and price.

Guess what: the Lumina pays excise tax on $14K and the Olds on $22K....

It is no wonder 10% of Indiana cars are registered in Ohio.

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: georgez@asdi.saic.com (George Zabetakis x6371)
Subject: Radio Shack Radar Detector
Organization: SAIC
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:18:40 GMT

I am thinking about ordering a Valentine One radar detector, but due to the
back log I am considering getting an interim detector.  Does anybody have
any info on the Radio Shack brands.  The prices seem good since I will 
only have it for several months. 


				Thanx for the help


				Georgez@asdi.saic.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mas@skcla.monsanto.com
Subject: Tips on selling late model hight mileage car??
Organization: Searle, Skokie, IL
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 13:38:38 GMT

Hi,

I have an '88 Mazda 626LX with 92K miles.  The car is in excellent
shape, but have not been able to get anyone to look at it.  I've had
plenty of calls, but no lookers.  Does anyone have any tips for selling
it.  It's in excellent condition, has had recent repairs - new brakes,
exhaust, tires.  I'm the original owner etc ...

Any tips, help, comments are welcome.  Please email responses to me.

Thanks!

John Mas


E-Mail Address     ::     MAS@SKCLA.MONSANTO.COM

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: G20 vs. Altima, Fast vs. Slow
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:25:20 GMT

In article <1992Nov14.212021.5422@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>In article <1e2afgINNghh@agate.berkeley.edu> shyguy@ocf.berkeley.edu
>(David S. Shy) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov14.053235.16877@leland.Stanford.EDU>
>>underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>>Why would someone want to buy the Altima when he/she could buy the
>>>G20 for about the same price?
>>I wouldn't know...
>
>
>One of the reasons for Nissan's smaller slice of the American 
>auto market is that it's marketing and advertising are really very
>bad.  Anyone see the "Bob's Sales Event" ad run by Nissan?  Yuck.
>On top of that the dealerships are chock full of unprofessional looking
>sales people.  Just look in a Toyota dealership.  You'll see everyone
>wearing a suit and tie, well almost everyone.
>
come on now....are people such morons that they would only buy a car from
someone in a suit?  sales_scum=sales_scum no matter what they wear.  i buy
a car based on it's qualities and the dealership bit is just a necessary
evil.  this professionalism=suit crap is just plain wrong.  personally i think
car dealers should just hire young college kids and pay them flat hourly fee
they know as much or more than the typical worthless sales-creature.  i mean
what skill does it take to be able to put a dealer plate on a car or match 
the keyring number with the number on the car or point someone to the brochure
rack?????
>If Nissan made me sales manager of the North American division, I
>bet that I could increase Nissan sales past Honda within 2 years ....
>
>>>Why does a car like the Sentra have a speed meter that goes up to 130
>>>while a Geo Prizm has a speed meter that only goes up to 80?  Isn't it
>>>pointless when the absolute maximum speed limit is 70 among all states
>>>of the USA?
>>well, you see, not everyone follows the speed limit and drive at 70 mph...
>>trying going south on I-5 and you'll see what i mean... everyone (well, 
>>most people anyways...) travel at about +80 mph.  plus, it's nice to
>>know that there's that extra poofff there in case you need to pass some
>>semi which is going at a speed just slightly below your preference...
>
>Yes, but why do some cars read 80 max on their speedometer while others
>read 130 max on theirs?
>
>>btw: you coming to the big game?
>
>No.  Been too occupied with life's hurdles lately.  Maybe next year, if
>I'm still around....
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
>Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                Sister, can you      |   \|  |`
>Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.           spare a coin?        |    | -+-
>                                                                  |   /| / \
>Copyright 1992.  Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3                           |
>------------------------------------------------------------------+------------


Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: born@scepter.raleigh.ibm.com
Subject: Re: Japanese Full Size Trucks
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 17:21:35 GMT
Distribution: na
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.14g by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: born@vnet.ibm.com
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

In <1992Nov20.175004.1227@bnr.ca> dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton) writes:
>In article <1992Nov20.142912.38332@watson.ibm.com>, born@scepter.raleigh.ibm.com writes:
>
>Seriously, is that rn news reader you're using a PM application, or just a line-by-line
>one?

It's PM application.  It's a JOY to use compared to the line-by-line rn.

-Christopher J. Born
>
>Don Clayton
>a.k.a. Admiral Maverick, DM of the Drow
>My brain, my thoughts, my words.
From: cf947@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chun-Hung Wan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: British car mags.
Date: 22 Nov 1992 00:15:46 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cf947@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chun-Hung Wan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Can anyone tell me where I can write to subscribe to a British car magazine
such as CAR? Thanks.
-- 
A motion picture major at the Brooks Institute of Photography, CA
Santa Barbara and a foreign student from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

"The mind is the forerunner of all states."
Newsgroups: rec.autos,misc.consumers,misc.kids,talk.politics.medicine,sci.med
From: crpresto@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Charlie Preston)
Subject: Re: Seat Belts Releasing in Crashes: Institute for Injury Reduction
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 22:48:28 GMT
Organization: Illinois State University

In article <1ejmb4INNl2l@travis.csd.harris.com> kbeal@amber (Ken Beal) writes:
>Charlie Preston (crpresto@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu) wrote:
>:      BTW I do *not* want air bags in my vehicles!
>
>	Why not?  I agree with your discussion of collision avoidance, but
>I'd want as many backup systems keeping me alive as possible.
>
IMHO devices that make people 'feel safe' (large bumpers, steel beams in
doors, safety glass, padded dash, etc.) contribute to the number of
incompetent people who operate motorized vehicles.  Have you ever met someone
who refused to drive or ride in a particular car because s/he didn't 'feel
safe'?  (Often the excuse is the car doesn't have enough metal.)  I believe
that if people associated a greater risk of serious injury or fatality with
driving there would be better drivers, fewer drivers and a lot fewer
collisions.
     The term moral hazard is sometimes used in the insurance industry to
describe a particular behavior in humans:  if a person perceives that risk of
loss is redused, then s/he will accept more risk or participate in riskier
activities.
     I don't care to pay for a lot of 'safety equipment' on a vehicle which
does nothing to improve or assist my driving.  On my car it is just extra
baggage.
-- 
Chas                         DoD #7769

"Oh, how can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all?"
                                               - Firesign Theatre
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jahonen@cs.joensuu.fi (Jarmo Ahonen)
Subject: Re: Stick VS Auto.
Keywords: HOW STUPID CAN A MAN BE
Organization: University of Joensuu
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 10:52:25 GMT

mjarvi@vipunen.hut.fi (Mikko I J{rvi) writes:

>    If a completely normal human doesnt learn how to drive whit stick in
> 15 min. he/she is an IDIOT. So what is the problem in US of A ??
> 
> P.S Am I the only one who is annoyed from the lack of engine brakeing while
>     driveing automatic?
>-- 
>!  Mikko J{rvi             !    " This signature is protected by         !
>!  Matkamiehnpolku 2 B 12  !                       SMITH & WESSON "      ! 
>!  00320 HELSINKI          !    " Skodalla meni hyvin, mutta menk||n"    !  
>!  FINLAND                 !                       HELKAMA-AUTO          !    

Well... Some people just do not like driving enough to feel like they should
start using sticks to pull mechanical parts to different positions.

Or they might be lazy like me. I feel that muggling with the stick in a city
is a waste of my efforts because it can be automatized. Similarly I do not
get any kicks from changing in order to accelereate or slow down.

Generally I'd say that what you like is the best choice for you.  
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: HOW TO AVOID HITTING THE WALL IN GARAGE
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 01:32:49 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.173629.26369@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> marks@ssdevo.enet.dec.com (Randy Marks) writes:
>In article <1992Nov19.210855.18497@engage.pko.dec.com>, sontakke@helix.enet.dec.com (Vikas Sontakke) writes...
>>Just pick up few feet of a scrap 2X4, and lay it in front of the front wheel.
>>Also mark its position on the sidewall, in case the 2X4 moves.  If it is long
>>enough and if you approach your car slowly, it won't move at all.
>You can make this even more robust by cutting 2 more pieces of 2x4 and
>attaching them perpendicular to the piece you mention above.
>The 2 additional pieces are cut such that they position the 'stopper'
>2x4 a precise distance from the garage wall.

no, the 2x4 should be attached to the wall in such a way that
it sticks straight out parallel to the ground, aimed directly
at the driver's face.  when 2x4 smashes the driver in the face,
he will know that he has gone in too far.  for extra effectiveness,
i suggest that several 6" steel spikes be attached to the end of
the 2x4.

alternatively, hang a bottle of nitroglycerine from the rafters.
this will probably get the driver's attention and she will
be very careful not to bump it with the windshield.

enough already!
From: chen@digital.sps.mot.com (Jinfu Chen)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: highly desirable cars not sold in the US (was INFFINITI vs BMW
Date: 13 Nov 92 21:06:52 GMT
Organization: Motorola, LICD, SPS, Mesa, AZ

More to the list:

Toyota Crown
Volvo 400 series
From: hagger@cs.umd.edu (Paul Hagger)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Software Programmers = Auto Workers?
Date: 19 Nov 92 19:51:36 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742


In article <1992Nov18.175946.14181@oakhill.sps.mot.com> rvkl60@aus18a25.sps.mot.com (Tom Mathes) writes:
>
>The article discusses a new book called "The Decline and Fall if the
>American Programmer", by Edward Yourdan (Prentice-Hall, Englewood
>Cliffs, NJ).  Mr. Yourdon groups data processors, software people and
>systems analysts in this group, and he claims that the American software
>industry will go the way of the US auto industry if present trends
>continue.  He sites the lousy quality control of the software coming out
>of American software houses, and the excessive development costs that
>are assoicated with it.  He likens the attitude of American software
>engineers to that of auto workers in the 1970s, that is, egocentric,
>looking down upon their non-US competition, and unconcerned about the
>quality of their product or productivity.
>
>Tom Mathes                                e-mail : rvkl60@aus18a25.sps.mot.com

I read "The Decline and Fall of the American Programmer."  Mr. Yourdon
attempts to make the claim that off shore programmers produce better
products in less time and for less money.  But only in the first
chapter (and I suppose in an Appendix, but not really).  And as far as
I am concerned, he doesn't persuade too well.

The rest of the book is a modern day version of "Mythical Man Month" in
that it reviews current software engineering techniques and the state of
the art in software design/production.  While Mr. Yourdon has a vested
interest in some of the topics he discusses, he does not push any of
his previous acheivements/efforts on the reader.  The book is a good
summary and a pleasant read IMHO.

I also think that the book is worth the money simply for the suggested
reading section near the end.

-hagger
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: nau@ssesco.com (William Nau)
Subject: Re: Help! Ford service disaster!!!
Organization: SSESCO
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:14:12 GMT

In article <PHILG.92Nov19190251@zug.ai.mit.edu>, philg@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Philip Greenspun) writes:
|> 
|> In article <1992Nov18.124122.2342@infonode.ingr.com> greg@cherokee.b23b.ingr.com (Greg Moritz) writes:
|> 
|>    > Then if I didn't get satisfaction I would call the regional Ford office.  
|> 
|>    They'll be sure to send you some nice form letters ...
|> 
|> Wow!  You got form letters.  That's better than I ever got.

Forget form letters.  Even calling them, they refused to release any
information.  I explained to them that they were required to by state
law.  They accused me of making that up.

One hour latter they saw me standing in their office with a letter
explaining my treatment and the law.  The letter also stated that if
they refused to provide the information that I required, they would need
to provide me with a signed document stating their refusal.  That finally
got their attention (I wasn't going to leave until they did one or the
other)

|>    > Next I would call the national headquarters and talk to Ford's national 
|>    > customer service hotline.  
|> 
|>    Nah, they'll just give you the number of the regional Ford office 
|>    mentioned above ...

My experience (about 8 calls) with their customer  service hotline has been
both good and bad.  Good in the sense that the people are rather friendly
and will provide you with any information that they can.  The problem is
that they are kept in the dark.  They're willing to tell you everything
they know, but they don't know much.

[I'm starting to get hot under the collar, so I'm gonna stop now before
I really go on about the other shit that really ticked me off]
-- 
William R. Nau
Supercomputer Systems Engineering and Services Company (SSESCO)
511 11th Avenue South, Suite 216
Minneapolis, Minnesota 55415-1536
(612) 342-0003

nau@SSESCO.com
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Slartibartfast)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Whining about buying American cars
Date: 21 Nov 92 19:41:51 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

In article <1992Nov20.134043.16084@bnr.ca> dclayton@bnr.ca (Don Clayton) writes:
>In article <19NOV199209523290@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov>, kimnach@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (GREG KIMNACH) writes:
>|> In article <2179@shaman.wv.tek.com>, andrew@frip.wv.tek.com writes...
>|> >Let's drag it out into the sunlight.  You'd rather help feed a kid from
>|> >Detroit than a kid from Tsutsumi.  Is this not racism?
>|> 
>|> No, it's patriotism.
>
>Which is a far more dangerous problem than racism.
>
>Don Clayton

	C'mon Don, wouldn't you rather feed a kid from Halifax NS than 
Halifax, NC?  All else being equal.  I would certainly favor kids in the US
to Canada in this case, all else equal again.  Nothing personal, just gotta
look out for #1 and all that.

			Chintan Amin



-- 
"The Clergy Dazzle us with Heaven or they Damn us into Hell"  Billy Bragg!!!!!
IIIII  L    L    IIIII NNNNN IIIII   Chintan Amin c-amin1@uiuc.edu DEPT of E.E.
  I    L    L      I   N   N   I   RUSH	YES FLOYD METALLICA PEARLJAM REM PG
IIIII  LLLL LLLL IIIII N   N IIIII   GO TARHEELS  GO CAPITALS GO COWBOYS 
Xref: sparky rec.autos:27603 misc.consumers:19374 misc.kids:28964 sci.med:21362
From: 00bndaniels@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos,misc.consumers,misc.kids,sci.med
Subject: Re: Seat Belts Releasing in Crashes: Institute for Injury Reduction
Date: 22 Nov 92 18:29:54 GMT
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

In article <1992Nov20.002400.23792@netcom.com>, feustel@netcom.com (David Feustel) writes:
> Simple solution to the seatbelt problem: buy foreign. Having walked
> away from a headon collision at 45 mph with a John Deere tractor, I
> can guarantee you that Nissan seatbelts work very well.
> -- 
> Dave Feustel N9MYI <feustel@netcom.com>
>  
> GE knew there was lots of money to be made in the diagnostic medical
> machine field since it was only a matter of time before people started
> getting sick from the effects of all of GE's toxic and radioactive
> waste dumping. I expect GE to get into the Mortuary business next.
	What HELL are you talking about??  Do you mean a large 
John Deer tractor?  Or a small lawn and garden type???  HOW IN 
THE HELL DID YOU MANAGE TO RUN INTO THE TRACTOR?  Were you on a 
farm field or a lawn??  
	Thanks
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (REAL LIFE?!?!  HA!!)
Subject: Re: LH: first drive
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 00:08:24 GMT

aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:
>>
>But..and a HUGE one from my standpoint, and, possible, others as well, is
>that i have never seen an advert for one with a stick. does anyone out there
>know if they come with the 214 motor, and a stick? or are you stuck with
>the auto, much like the Bonneville..beautiful car, no stick, T'bird takes 
>it! if the SHO doesn't!..just curious!

First of all, there is NO comparison between the Bonnie and the LH.  The LH is
superior in almost every category.  And second, the article I read about the
LH in R&T says that they have the following on the drawing board for the LH:

	5-speed
	RWD
	AWD
	V-8

Naturally, these are all depending on how well the LH's do in the market.  But
in any case, Chrysler is already designing a 2-door coupe version on a smaller
wheelbase and (I think) track.  Just think about it!  A DOHC V-8 5-speed RWD
Chrysler LH super coupe!  (Well, we can all dream....:)

But to answer your question, there will not be a 5-speed on the LH for at least
two or three years.
===
Michael T. Chaffee        |******BOYCOTT COLORADO******|  ______    
mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu | Professional Slapthologist |  \    /     HATE
Member, Universal Life Church, Sect of Loons           |   \  /  can never be
Annoyance Theatre Platinum Member |     Evil Genius    |    \/  a FAMILY VALUE
From: frankb@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Frank Ball)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:17:02 GMT
Subject: Re: Car Owner Ship Ta x
Organization: HP Signal Analysis Division - Rohnert Park, CA