From: car@public.BTR.COM (Carlos Rimola-Sarti  car@btr.com)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: FIFA propoesed changes to (OCEANIA) Southern America
Date: 31 Aug 92 19:59:33 GMT
Organization: Connective Strategies, Inc. (CSI).  Mountain View, California

In article <1992Aug29.123547.17288@fuw.edu.pl> michals@fuw.edu.pl (Michal Szleper) writes:
-In article <7838@public.BTR.COM> Carlos Rimola-Sarti writes:
->Michals, I am going to try to make this brief because we are begining to
->go around in circles.
-
-Yes, let this be the final.  BTW, it is not polite to mispell 
-someone's name just to express your low consideration.

My apologies for mispelling your name.  I am not sure it was a case of
mispelling or simply an extra letter that got in while typing.  In any
case it was completely unintentional.  What is not polite here is your
suggestion that it is an "expression" of any kind or that there is any
hidden meaning in it.  

-
->I have to wonder, if you don't think that the Copa America is "world
->competition", does the same logic apply to the European Cup? 
-
-A *world competition* is a competition whose range is not limited
-by geography, to any single country or continent. I thought you were
-intelligent enough to know the meaning of words. >:-)

Would "world caliber" suit you? or maybe we should substitute the word
world for *international*.  The point was, these are competitions in which
a team's ability to compete internationally, against traditional world
powers, is shown.  For the Copa America, we are talking about competing
against countries like Brasil and Argentina that even you recognize are
world powers.  Now, is it clear?

BTW, Suggestions about "my intelligence" because you are not able to undertand
what point is being made are simply rude and unnecessary.  Read a little
more carefully.

->>#13 or #16 or whatever. And has any of your favorite teams advanced
->>to the top 4?  Or even 8?  You see, some European teams have.
-
->They "damn" better have when they have more than half the teams in
->the competition!  Simple laws of probability would dictate so.
-
-Carlos, you don't know much about probability, do you?
-You see, you may have ONE team, but a STRONG one, and you will
-have a large probability of success. You may have FIFTY teams,
-but WEAK ones (just as you-know-which), and you'll never get
-anything.

Looks like the probability statement needs expanding here. Let's try
to use some logic:

How about when you have 10 teams of *about the same strenght* as the
other side which only has 2 teams?  Let me repeat because I am afraid
it won't get through otherwise - not counting the top teams from each
continent.  If you have 2 teams from S.A. with about *equal strenght* to
say 10 teams from Europe, which continent then has a better probability of
moving one of these teams of *about equal strenght* into the semifinals?  
The way the S.A. teams have finished in 2 of the last 3 WCs has shown that
they are at least in the same level as half the European teams that 
have competed.  These is where the "about equal strength" statement
comes from.  Also, the farther you go back in WC history, the
more valid this point becomes.

-
->Yes, if you agree that SA deserves at least 3 spots plus the opportunity
->to play for an additional one.  However, as I previously stated this was
->not my point of contention.  On that one, I gather we still disagree on.
-
-OK, my last paragraph.  Let's make a final agreement. Maybe
-Uruguay is a strong team, but it didn't have the luck to confirm
-this in the last few World Cups.  Does it finally suit you?

Thanks for repeating what many of us have been saying.  The point is not
to suit anyone in particular but to express your opinions (backed by some
facts) and let them stand on their own merrit.  I suggest you stop
trying to make statements like "I am right, you are wrong" and "you are
bluffing", etc.  Let the facts and opinions you express stand on their
own.  Simply saying that someone else "blabs" or "blufs" does not
make it so.  

-But let me give you an advice.  Before you reply to someone's
-posting and flame him and offend him, make sure that you
-understand what's the real subject. Otherwise it will be
-just blabbing to blab.

No no! it does not work that way.  Not in rec.sports.soccer nor any other
group.  These discussion are never so narrow that all you can talk about
is precisely what the title says.  It does not work that way in the real
world either.  You should read replies more closely and see what point
is being argued.  As you may have noticed a lot of other people objected
to that statement and even renamed part of the thread to "Uruguay" and
another title having to do with players based abroad.

-
-Bye. Lighten up!

You seem to have taken great exception to my statement in which I suggested
that you check a reference book for a history of how South-American countries
have fared in the world cup.  This was in response to your still incorrect
statement that only two countries counted.  In your original statement
there was nothing to indicate that you only wanted to include the last
3 world cups as the criteria.

Now, I will agree that it was probably an over-reaction to send you to
the library (:-)  and I will try to keep the tone down in the future.

HOWEVER, your statement was and still is an incorrect one.  You can
argue all you want but it will not change the fact that Uruguay has won
two world cups, finished 4th twice after, that Chile finished 3rd, that
Peru finished 7th, twice, etc. etc.  Next time, if you don't want to
hear that you are wrong be more specific.  We CAN NOT read your mind.

LASTLY, at no point, do I feel that I have made a personal attack on you, 
questioning your intelligence or findind ulterior motives in your spelling. 
I think the one who needs to lighten up here is you.

I do want to end this discussion but will continue to reply to personal
attacks.

+---------------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
| Carlos Rimola-Sarti                   |         email: rimola@csisdn.com  |
| Connective Strategies, Inc.           |                      car@btr.com  |
| ISDN PRI Connectivity Group           |         phone:      415-903-2585  |
+---------------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
| "Al compas del cha-cha-cha, del cha-cha-cha del tren..."                  |
+---------------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer