HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: STOP ABUSING JACK SCHMIDLING!
Date: 15 Sep 1992 15:36:30 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


   Does anyone actually think that Jack Schmidling is what he is,
simply because he made himself that way?  Nobody gets this screwy
without having some severe emotional trauma in childhood.  It may
be that he hates his mother or his father.  And perhaps there are
good reasons for this hatred.  Maybe Daddy was a real nazi.  Jack
could be trying to vindicate his father's failure as a flunkie on
the losing side.  Maybe Jack was a flunkie on the losing side.  I
find it conceivable that Jack got beat up by a Jew when he was an
adolescent.  Maybe his "Jewish" mother weaned him too soon.  Jack
has claimed that his mother is Jewish, so maybe he just hates his
mommy.  Maybe Jack was a nazi flunkie himself.  The possibilities
are endless.  But one thing is for certain.  He is not to be held
responsible for what he is.  No personality becomes so unbalanced
unless, somewhere along the line, he was abused pretty badly.  We
cannot ask Jack, for he is also a pathological liar.  But we must
pity him for what he was made to be.  And to those who would like
to strangle the guy just for existing, relax.  It could always be
worse.  You could be living under the same roof as him.
-- 
   "One can be a racist.  Or one can be a human being.  But one
may not be both."
                                 - Rabbi Abraham Joshua heschel

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: adam@sparkle.uucp (Adam Shostack)
Subject: Re: Israel and Kuwait in the Spotlight
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:54:12 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.135054.21286@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu writes:

>#Thus your claim that Arab Israelis are allowed to vote
>#for political leaders who represent their interests is false.

>No it is not, if these interests don't call for the destruction of
>Israel. If I am not wrong, the communist party is not allowed to
>run in the US, and you cannot compare the danger they pose to
>the US with the danger the Hamas etc pose to Israel.

Actually, you are wrong.  The Communist Party, headed by Gus Hall,
fields a candidate for each Presidential election, and has for the
past 40 odd years.  It got support, to the tune of about 10 million$
from the USSR durring the 1980's.

The Communists can run in the US, but haven't come close enough to
winning that anyone worries about it.

(Calling for destruction of the US would probably be prohibited by the
Consitution:

Article 3, section 3

Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying
war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and
comfort.  No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony
of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.)

Adam Shostack 					adam@das.harvard.edu

What a terrible thing to have lost one's .sig.  Or not to have a .sig
at all.  How true that is.
From: egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: A naive question about the law of return
Date: 10 Sep 92 11:20:51 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

If my ancestors converted to Judaism, does this give me the right to
emigrate to Israel? Is this logical? Why (not)?

-- 
=======Jeremy Henderson========egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk===============
Q: How many user support people does it take to change a light bulb?
A: We have an exact copy of the light bulb here and it seems to be
   working fine.  Can you tell me what kind of system you have?  
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: adam@sparkle.uucp (Adam Shostack)
Subject: Re: are jews racists?
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:11:18 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.093741.29858@cc.uow.edu.au> u9066624@cc.uow.edu.au (Tippu Hassan) writes:
>it seems to me that the palistinians are having to go through the same hell 
>jews went through under the nazi's.

You know, this is about as offensive as you can get.  Good start for a
newcomer.

Nazis had a national policy of *KILLING* Jews. They did this by the
millions.  They set up an entire national infrastruture for the sole
purpose of efficiently killing people.  They stopped using bullets
because it was *too expensive.*

I reccomend that you go to your local library, and use the card
catolog to learn something about the magnitude of the holocaust.  If
youd  like,  I can post a bibliography.  The one I have in mind
contains well over a thousand titles.  You should read some of them,
and then realize that what Israel is doing in the Disputed territories
is a military occupation.  It is not genocide by any stretch of the
paranoids imagination.

>in my own opinion the meretz party in israel has the    best stand on the 
>issue of co-existance.

Thank you for your input.

>i think once palistine is created, the  muslims shouldn't have 
>   any problems in recognizing israel.

Why didn't the Muslims recognize Israel in 1947, then?

>i would especially like to hear the point of view of people actually living 
>in  israel.

In that case, why do you introduce yourself by comparing them to
Nazis?



Adam Shostack 					adam@das.harvard.edu

What a terrible thing to have lost one's .sig.  Or not to have a .sig
at all.  How true that is.      
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: odkahn@eos.ncsu.edu (Opher D. Kahn)
Subject: Re: Syrian Beats Jordan in Final
Keywords: Basketball
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:40:57 GMT

In article <14SEP199222054712@vms.huji.ac.il>, rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il (ROBERT WERMAN) writes:
|> Final score in Damascus Basketball final game,
|> 
|> Syria 78, Jordan 74.  The game was quite exciting,
|> although hardly of high quality.  It was covered
|> by both Syrian and Jordanese TV.
                      ^^^^^^^^^
How about Jordanian ?
-- 
 Opher D. Kahn 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: snggab01@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Liberation Tigers
Date: 14 Sep 92 10:56:42 +0200
Organization: University of Cape Town

Anyone around here heard of Vellupillai Prabhakaran ?
For the majority of you who did'nt,he is the head of the Liberation
Tigers of Tamil Eelam in Sri Lanka.His group has killed more Muslims
in the past year in Sri Lanka (on religious grounds) than the Israelis
have killed in the last five years.The tigers set up machine guns in a mosque
last year and gunned down over 100 worshippers.Yet why is there so much more
media focus on Israel than on Sri Lanka.The answer :Jews are news!
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf)
Subject: Re: Fair Swap
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 04:31:37 GMT

bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:

>>THEY'RE BAD BOUNDARIES - these are the very words of the framer of 242.
>>There is no other room for interpretation as long as 242 is considered
>>the foundation.  Also, 242 clearly states that Israel has the exclusive
>>right to control all territories until a political settlement is reached.
>>Thus, until the arabs make peace with Israel, they have no legal right under
>>242 to call for withdrawal from the territories.

>I see.  242 imposes obligations on "the arabs" and rights on Israel.
>Good one.  By the way, I bet you would cry "racist" if someone used
>"the jews" like that.

Are you now trying to deny that the Arabs (happy now?) have an obligation
to make peace?  Every Israeli administration, including Shamir's, has been
very willing to talk peace.  If Hussein and Assad had seriously made moves
toward peace, even Shamir would have responded.  Israel has always, and 
today too, been ready for peace.  Who has been the aggressor in every
single Arab-Israeli war for the past 40+ years?  In your eyes, I'm sure
there is some way that Israel, being the belligerent that it is, provoked
those wars.

>(My personal view on 242 is that it is barely relevant any more.  It 
>is also fatally flawed in that it fails to identify the Palestinians as
>a legitimate party to the problem.  I don't accept that either Israel
>or Jordan have any right whatever to the West Bank, and no behaviour
>on the part of Jordan can justify its annexation.)

The Palestinians are not parties to the problem because they were never
the owners of the land.  In fact, neither were Jordan of Egypt.  They
were thieves just like the rest.
B
>>Edward A. Shnekendorf                           eshneken@uiuc.edu

>Brendan.

Ed Shnekendorf.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: One of them is surely a crook....
Followup-To: alt.flame
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 04:01:00 GMT


Look, meathead, enough is enough. Many people use systems that don't
have kill files. You are wasting a lot of their time, and in some
cases money also, as phone companies don't have special discounts
for transferring your junk.

Cut the fu**ing crap or better, go fly an Iraqi plane south of the 32
parallel.

-Danny Keren.
 


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:19851 talk.politics.soviet:7840 soc.culture.greek:8746 soc.culture.europe:8301 soc.history:8187
From: rothberg@bimacs.BITNET (Danny Rothenberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Human Rights in Occupied Territorie
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:40:36 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <4183@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>In article <4182@bimacs.BITNET> rothberg@bimacs.BITNET (Danny
>Rothenberg) writes:
>
>>Perhaps Leah Tsemel should give up her Israeli citizenship, which
>>grants her all these (too many) privileges and take out Palestinian
>>refugee papers.
>>
>It seemed that Danny accept the racist assumption that just gentils
>has the privilage for  criminal anti Semite activity. I see no reason
>why that bad Leah Tsemel will have a right to do  her bad activity
>while being in one of the palaces of the PLO leaders at Beiruth or Algier
>(refugies camps)  and why she may not enjoy the same right  while
>being an Israeli citizen.
>
Because there is an explicit law on the Israeli statute books
outlawing meetings between Israeli citizens and members of
Israeli-designated terrorist organisations, eg PLO, without the
express permission of the Israeli government, eg when connected with
the rescue of Israeli hostages, MIAs, etc.


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Danny Rothenberg            |    ^     Ellul is here, so:  (I also forgive
Bitnet:                     | \-/-\-/   "Repent now!        everybody)
rothberg@bimacs             |  X   X     Avoid the Yom Kippur rush!"
Internet:                   | /-\-/-\      -Nero (aka Harry Blacker)
rothberg@imacs.cs.biu.ac.il |    V    Ketivah VeChatimah Tovah-Shanah Tovah
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami)
Subject: Re: Israel's peace talks with Syria
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 17:28:49 GMT

In article <18t9g8INN7mm@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein) writes:
>
>I think that it is unrealistic to expect that Israel can get a peace treaty
>without giving up some territory.  On the other hand, it is unrealistic for
>Syria to expect that it will be able to gain control of the entire Golan.

After the Camp-David accord it is VERY realistic of Syria to demand and
get every inch of the Golan.

I personally think that if one is in favor of the Madrid process (or
negotiation with Syria) one cannot expect to save the Golan settlements.

There is no good reason to distinct between Golan and Sinai. maybe in
the Golan the security mechanisms of demiltarization should be stricter
but that's all.

I am opposed to negotiating with the Syrians and think that the
Status-Quo in the border with Syria is perfectly fine. in 18 years
there was not a single incident and the border is quieter than the
streets in Yom-Kippur. (this is from personal experience).
Maybe a little improvements of the Cease-fir agreement to and fro but
no more is needed.

>--
>bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu

David.

-- 
=============================================================================
  David Ben-Ami (irc: bigdav)      |   "I can resist anything but Temptation"
  s2780369@Techst02.Technion.Ac.Il |       Oscar Wilde
  davidba@Carmel.Technion.Ac.Il  davidba@Moav.Techniona.Ac.Il
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:19840 talk.politics.soviet:7829 soc.culture.greek:8735 soc.culture.europe:8290 soc.history:8176
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Subject: Re: Ode to the "kacik".
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 15:55:15 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.031139.16172@leland.Stanford.EDU> arto@leland.Stanford.EDU (Artavazd Khachikian) writes:

>In article <9209031904.AA18441@samba.oit.unc.edu> 
>"talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:

>>Hasan B. Mutlu,
>>For showing us the light,
>>you got naught but grief;
>>your precious pearls of wisdom
>>so insightful, yet so brief!
>>
>>Hasan B Mutlu,
>>return to us we pray!
>>Let your cheerful disposition
>>cast some sunshine out our way.

Unfortunately, what the vineyard needs is hard work, not prayers.

>	Thank you for this brilliant, touching and inspiring piece of
>poetry. 

Empty words will not fill an empty stomach.

A merciless massacre of the civilian population of the small Azeri 
town of Khojali (Pop. 6000) in Karabagh, Azerbaijan, is reported to 
have taken place on the night of Feb. 28 under a coordinated military 
operation of the 366th mechanized division of the CIS army and the 
Armenian insurgents. Close to 1000 people are reported to have been 
massacred. Elderly and children were not spared. Many were badly beaten 
and shot at close range. A sense of rage and helplessness has overwhelmed 
the Azeri population in face of the well armed and equipped Armenian 
insurgency. The neighboring Azeri city of Aghdam outside of the
Karabagh region has come under heavy Armenian artillery shelling. City 
hospital was hit and two pregnant women as well as a new born infant 
were killed. Azerbaijan is appealing to the international community to 
condemn such barbaric and ruthless attacks on its population and its 
sovereignty.

(Report from Karabakpress of Azerbaijan in Baku)

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
From: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Fair Swap
Date: 10 Sep 1992 21:30:10 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, rayes@Snake.mcs.kent.edu (Sandra Rayes) says:

>Who's this nut??? What tinker-box did he pop out of?
>
>Arabs from the southern Arabian peninsula--roughly today's Yemen--migrated
>to Palestine in the Fourth Millenium BC...that's two thousand years
>*before* Abraham got there.  That sounds pretty permanent to the majority
>of sound people.

Nobody's claiming that no Arabs were around for a long time.  But the
simple fact of the matter is that Arabs have come and gone, with no great
attachment to the place, and a large portion of the Arabs who today call
themselves Palestinians (itself a rather recent phenomenom, basically the
result of the Arab war against the Zionist cancer in the otherwise Arab
Middle East) are either recent immigrants themselves, or come from families
which themselves came to Palestine to benefit from the economic
opportunities that came about with the Zionist influx they hate so much.

>As for institutions...ever heard of Al Aqsa???  It USED to be...before
>occupation, that is...a powerful religious center...it is mentioned in
>the Qur'an and many students of Islamic Shariah were educated there
>throught the years.

An oasis in a desert.  Little attention was paid to it until the
reestablishment of Israel became a realistic possibility.

> Palestinians have a distinct culture, language
>dialect all their own, etc... but you have probably never taken the
>time to learn this.  Your blind support of Israel has you believing
>the propaganda filth perpetrated by the likes of Shamir.
>
What ever happened to the claim of one Arab people?  Or do you throw out
propaganda ploys when another is more convenient, and then retrieve them
when it suits your whim?

-- 
bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Fair Swap
Summary: Stupid sources.
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 11:47:09 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.021941.24858@cs.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:

	[ most of article deleted -dlm ]

# In article 5Eu@news.cso.uiuc.edu, eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf) writes:

# >bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:

# >>In article 6IE@news.cso.uiuc.edu, eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf) writes:

# >>>Even though the arabs were a majority, there was no indication of permanancy.
# >>>I may reside in  Illinois, but since I have not shown a tendency toward 
# >>>permanancy, I am not considered a resident.  The Moselms never established
# >>>any provincial centers, Islamic schools, or any significant institutions in
# >>>Palestine.  They were there only by convinience, the convinience being that
# >>>massive Jewish immigration provided job oppurtunities in a financially
# >>>depressed area.

# >>Hogswill.  All this sort of crap has been pushed here before, but nobody
# >>ever provided evidence.  Can you?  

# >What evidence do I need?  Where are the great provinical centers, institutions,
# >or schools established by the "Palestinians" in the great amount of time 
# >during which you claim they lived in the land.  You certainly know that some
# >of the largest clans on the West Bank, like the Ja'abari and Masri clans,
# >derive from Iraq and Syria respectively.  What evidence do you possess which
# >claims that the Arabs who lived in Palestine had lived there permanently
# >throughout all those years?  The facts on the ground certainly don't reflect
# >that.

# You have heard about a few exceptions and want to believe they
# are the rule.  Here are the fractions of residents of Palestine who
# were born outside Palestine at the 1931 census:  
#     Moslems 2%, Christians 20%, Jews 58%.
# Similar sorts of figures are available from the earlier Ottoman censuses.
# If you don't believe these numbers, post your evidence against them.

	This is really pathetic.  Any sources that would support this are
just stupid, or are you going to take these people's word for it?  Do
they have verifiable birth certificates?  What is the definition of
"palestine?" that was used?  Were the respondents using the same
definition?  Given the fact that there was good reason to say they
were from "palestine?", given the lack of similar institutions that
were found elsewhere, and given that one need only look at the "birth
history" of Yasir Arafat (Y"S), there is substantials probaility to
doubt these.
--

David Makowsky
makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: are jews racists?
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:49:02 GMT

u9066624@cc.uow.edu.au (Tippu Hassan) writes:

#hi all

Ahoy there, mate! Welcome to the racist pond!

#it seems to me that the palistinians are having to go through the same hell
#jews went through under the nazi's.

No comparison at all - millions of Palestinains are not killed in gas
chambers. Now, if you wanted to make a provocative comparison, you
could say that they are going through the same hell they went through
in Jordan, Kuwait, etc.

I must say, old boy, that whenever I hear someone equating Israel with
the Nazi regime I kindof suspect he is heavily biased and/or ignorant.

#in my own opinion the meretz party in israel has the    best stand on the
#issue of co-existance.
#
#ie two seperate states

I think in the long run its possible, but you have to understand its not
so simple, and that Israel might face grave dangers once such a state
is constructed. Read more about the history of the mideast 1948-67
and you will understand what I am talking about. Before 1967, the
Arabs had all the land that they want now, and still began a war
against Israel, with the declared intent of destroying it.

#i think once palistine is created, the  muslims shouldn't have
#   any problems in recognizing israel.

Ah, if I only could believe that. That is probably true for some
Muslims, but many have not discarded the idea of destroying Israel,
and openely say that the west bank is only the first step. Read
more of this newsgroup, you'l see what I mean.

#i would especially like to hear the point of view of people actually living
#in  israel.

Well I grew up in Israel and lived there till 2 years ago, hope this
counts.


-Danny Keren.



Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Subject: Re: Fair Swap
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
Organization: Australian National University
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 00:25:14 GMT

In article 7@news.cso.uiuc.edu, eshneken@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Edward A Shnekendorf) writes:
>
>Jews have always, for the last 2000 years, been the majority in Jerusalem.
>To claim Arab sovreingty over Jerusalem is  complete lunacy.  Those who
>call for an end to Jewish settlement in Jerusalem and elsewhere in Judea and 
>Samaria are simply racists - they are attempting to deny people housing based
>on their national identity and religion.  Israel does not prevent Arabs from
>building in the territories...Who is the racist now?

That's a really pathetic argument, but the reason I replied is your
first sentence.  Jews have been a majority in urban Jerusalem since
about 1870 and were the largest of the groups {Jew,Christian,Moslem}
for perhaps 100 years before that.  Earlier on, Jews were a minority.
For most of the past 2000 years, Jews were a SMALL minority of the
population of Jerusalem.  The immediately surrounding rural areas 
(now part of the metropolis) were almost exclusively Arab until 
after 1948. [Source: Bachhi, Population of Israel]

>Edward A. Shnekendorf            

Brendan.


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:19857 talk.politics.soviet:7846 soc.culture.greek:8752 soc.culture.europe:8307 soc.history:8192