HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: JforJ ad in Newsweek
Date: 17 Dec 1992 01:33:44 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/trn/lib/organization
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu

In article <102335@netnews.upenn.edu> shawn@up.hep.upenn.edu (Shawn Ruby) writes:
>Anybody see that Jews for Jesus ad in Newsweek?  They must have more money than I
>thought to pay for a full page spread like that.
>
>Shawn Ruby

They also had an ad of significant size in recent editions of
the New York Times. I noticed that they still seem to be 
headquartered out of San Francisco.

-- 
________________________________________
Jack F. Love	| 	Opinions expressed are mine alone.
		|	(Unless you happen to agree.)
Organization: Bar-Ilan University Computing Center, Israel
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 09:45:17 IST
From: Hank Nussbacher <HANK@BARILVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Jewish joke

Did you know that automobile air-conditioning was invented by
three little old Jewish guys? Sure... I can prove it.
Their names are on your dashboard: Max, Norm and Hi.

Hank Nussbacher
Karnei Shomron
Israel
From: naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: THEY DIDN'T PIERCE (was The Crucifiction Prophecy)
Date: 18 Dec 92 15:43:02 +0200
Keywords: ka-ari
Organization: University of Cape Town

> 
> I'll start with a disclaimer: the following is not intended as support
> for the argument which started this thread. 
> 
> In the interest of accuracy, I have to point out that oldest
> manuscripts of the Septuagint (usually abbreviated LXX and known in
> modern Hebrew as the "Shiv'im") are indeed older than than the oldest
> manuscripts of the Hebrew Bible, with exceptions noted below. There are

I never claimed that the there were extant Hebrew manuscripts dating back
before extant Greek ones.

> at least two mss. which date to the fourth century CE, and a number
> which date to the fifth. The best known are probably the Codex
> Vaticanus (located guess where?) and the Codex Sinaiticus, most of
> which landed in the British Museum, with a few fragments somehow
> winding up in Leipzig. In addition to these codices, there are numerous
> fragments of the LXX which date from as early as the 1st Century
> CE--some of them being found in such prosaic areas as mummy wrappings.


I regard the fourth century as "early middle ages" and these codices are in
fact the ones I had in mind. They confirm what I am saying. They are about 
two centuries older than the time that the New Testament was written. The
Christians had plenty of time to fiddle the manuscripts. I may be wrong but as
far as I know, the incomplete fragments only contain non-contraversial passages.

In contrast, Judaism forbade fiddling and so the Hebrew version we have today
is regarded as far more reliable than the late Septuagint versions. (Of course
Christians will disagree since they adhere to the fantasy that the Jews were
evil and wanted to reject Jesus at all costs.)

Some manuscripts (not the Codex Sin. or Codex Vat.) even contain passages with
late Muslim!! myths about Ishmael in them, showing that the fiddling was still
going on quite late.

The main point is that there is no evidence that the mistranslation of "ka-ari"
is earlier than the Christian period.

Colin
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re:  Holiday wishes for us 
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:50:23 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.172850.24570@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene) writes:
>Ok, anyone recall who said the following quote?  I've forgotten.
>
>  " I refuse to call Xmas a 'secular holiday' until they
>    move it permanently to the third Thursday in December. "

Rita Rudner's line is:

  I won't celebrate Chanukah until we learn how to spell it.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Entertaining suggestions for responses to "Merry Christmas"
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:54:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Dec11.185426.3457
Distribution: na
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


"Season's Greetings" always felt artificial to me, and I suspect it's
an invention of the Christmas card companies to try to be non-sectarian.
I use "Happy Holidays" and notice that many others wish it to me as
well. It covers just about everybody with the possible exception of
hard-core athiests, and even they usually get Christmas off in
American society.

As for a greeting to other Jews who are at least trivially literate
in a few Hebrew phrases, I think that Chanukah Sameach is an
artificiality that, as you imply, sounds odd on the ears. Chag
Sameach, however, does not, is in heavy usage otherwise, and
since there isn't anything else around Chanukah time won't be
misinterpreted. It has the additional advantage that you pick
up a few Hebrew-speaking Christians with it, if you should guess
wrong. Thus it would be equally appropriate, I'd suspect, to use
with Christians in Israel.

oops. Do Moslems have a holiday around now? If not, forget my
remarks about "everybody with the possible exception of a few
hard-core athiests".

Finally, I don't think the wish behind "Season's Greetings" is
really very personal. You can greet people any time. But Happy
Holidays incorporates a wish for the other's well-being, and
is thus more "human."

David
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: The Jewish nose myth
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 21:31:20 GMT

In article <Dec11.231930.43105@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> mk568652@longs.lance.colostate.edu (Mitchell Kotler) writes:
>Can anyone explain how this myth got started ?
 I have no idea. None of the Jews i know have noses.
 How about "large mucosal surface area to hydrate dry desert
 air?" 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: What does Hanukkah commemorate?
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:10:11 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.082230.21575@u.washington.edu> hhll@stein.u.washington.edu (Steven Hodas) writes:
>I'm embarrassed to ask this, but what precisely does Hannukah commemorate.
>Please answer in as much detail as you can. Also, how do you play dreidel
>for gelt?

I won't answer the gambling question, since there has been an active
discussion in the liberal-judaism mailing list explaining how to
play dreidel (in the US.)

Iy the year 166 bce the Greeks/Syrians were rulers in Jerusalem and
had long since desecrated the Temple, and forced many Jews to follow
goyishe practices.  Mattathias (the priest) assembled an army, his
sons as leaders, and fought off the Greeks/Syrian troops of
Antiochus, and took back the Temple and began to restore it to its
proper service.

So on one level, Chanukah celebrates the rededication of the Temple.

On another level, Chanukah celebrates the military victory.  But our
holidays tend not to celebrate military victories.

Besides, the kingdom of Israel was restored under the descendants
of Mattathias.  On the one hand this was a victory well worth
celebrating.  On the other hand, those kings tended to oppose
the emerging group of people who would become known as rabbis.
It is likely that the greatest rabbis of his age, and one of the
first "pairs" of leaders of the Sanhederin, Shimon ben Shetach,
would have been killed by the king, except ben Shetach's sister was
the king's wife.

And the prophets tell us the kingdom would be restored under a
descendant of David, of the tribe of Judah, not under someone of the
tribe of Levi.

So the rabbis who wanted to celebrate the rededication of the
Temple, but downplay the military victory led by the meshpuchah of
these kings, hit upon a neat scheme.  The rededication portion would
be emphasized, but in place of the military victory, we would
celebrate the miracle that a flask of olive oil which seemed
sufficient for just one day lasted 8 days until new oil could be
obtained.


[  I've asked before but don't know:   Just how long does it take to
   extract olive oil in kislev in Jerusalem?  Is 8 days a reasonable
   amount of time?  ]

So today we teach our children about the miracle and play down the
military aspects of the war.

>Sheepishly,

No, wrong holiday:^)



In any case, Happy Hanukkah to all.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
From: rubinoff@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Robert Rubinoff)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Rosenbergs
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:45:27 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <92350.1251392893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> 2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Andy) writes:
>There has, I remember reading a passage of the previously represed portion
>of Khruschev's memoirs which thanked the Rosenberg's for their help to the
>Soviet nuclear programme.

But there are serious questions as to the legitimacy of the tape.  (The memoirs
were recorded onto tape.)  Only a small section of the tape was authenticated,
and the authentication was not conclusive.

   Robert

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Recipes in general
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:38:42 GMT

In article <9212151525.AA23720@cyclone.sbi.com> <gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler)> writes:
>                                              What't the singular form
>of sufganiot? 
  With jam inside. Almost never observed in nature.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: norm@helix.nih.gov(Norm Friedman)
Subject: Re: Rosh Chodesh Tool for Sun4
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <norm@helix.nih.gov(Norm Friedman)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:54:39 GMT

>In <1992Dec16.024954.25070@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> friedenb@ash.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg) writes:
>
>>I found a great utility for the Sun4.  It is called xmoon.
>>It tells you everything that you ever wanted to know about
>>the moon, updated every 5 seconds!
>
>>It displays the following information in a window:
>
>>Julian Date      (a number that I don't understand.  It is in
>>                  the form 2448973.10481)
>This is the number of days since Jan. 1 (I think), 4713 BCE
>(I don't know why they selected that as the starting point)
>
>>Universal Time   (GMT, I assume)
>Yes
>
>[...]
>
>>Moon Subtends    (I don't understand this one either.  It is in degrees)
>I imagine it's the apparent diameter of the moon's disk, as seen from earth.
>Should be close to half a degree.
>
>[...]
>
>>Next New Moon    ( " )  - VERY HELPFUL FOR ROSH CHODESH
>
>Our Muslim friends will find it helpful, and I suppose we will too when we go
>back to having the Sanhedrin determine the calendar from reports by witnesses.
>But how will it help us now?  You'll find that the astronomical new
>moon and the molad from the Jewish calendar are not identical.  I'm not sure
>how much they can differ - since you have the program maybe you can tell us.
>--
>Robert Israel                            israel@math.ubc.ca
>Department of Mathematics             or israel@unixg.ubc.ca
>University of British Columbia
>Vancouver, BC, Canada V6T 1Y4
Anyway that we get this for a Mac?
+--------------------------------------------------------+
   

   *    ***    **      *
   *   *   *     *     *
   *   *   *     *     *   
   *    ***         ***
   *   nison reuven b'R Shami             
   *   
   *   *  *   ***   ***   **  **
   *   ** *  *   *  *  *  * ** *
   *   * **  *   *  ***   *    *
   *   *  *   ***   *  *  *    *
       norm  "EVERYWHERE I GO, I GO TO ISRAEL!"
+---------------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Another stereotype joke! (was Re: Jewish STEREOTYPES...)
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:59:55 GMT

WHO (World Health Organization) sends envoys across the world to
conduct polls on the health situation in various countries.  The
envoys fan out onto the streets to ask ordinary people questions:

In Poland:  "Excuse me, sir, I'd like to know your opinion about the price
of meat."

"What's meat?"

In the ex-USSR: "Excuse me, madam, I'd like to know your opinion about
the price of meat."

"What's an opinion?"

In Israel:  "Excuse me, sir, I'd like to know your opinion about the price
of meat."

"What's ''Excuse me?''"

--
David F. Skoll

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller)
Subject: A really important Hanuka question
Organization: Trinity College, Hartford, CT.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:47:35 GMT

For years now we've suffered with those silly
multi-colored candles from Israel that last
about 7 seconds.  And every year I remember
the orange candles (I think they were made by
the Penn Candle Company--something like that)
that were _candles_.  Last time I saw something
like them was about 1966.

Does anyone in this group have any information
on the subject?  There are, of course, the very
fancy and very expensive candles without which
our yuppelekh can't live, but we use the same
10 cent stamped-tin menorah we've had for decades
and we want candles to match.

Norman Miller
From: dkhaikin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dmitry Khaikin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Messianic Judaism
Date: 21 Dec 92 01:25:51 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <1992Dec17.212432.26449@bony1.bony.com> billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) writes:
>In article <1992Dec15.020441.15744@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>
>>God did while Moses was in charge?  Like parting the Reed Sea, turning
>>Egypt's water into blood, slaying all of Egypt's first born, guiding
>
>Give me a bulldozer and I'll part the Reed Sea too.  =B^)

Fine. Now, how exactly quick can you do it. Like say 5 lives or 6? Nice
try!

>
>>Let's see your deity top that list.
>
>Uh, since Christians believe that Jesus is G-d, they believe He did
>those things as well as the Miracles listed in the "New" Testament.

Is not this funny? One says that he is the moshiah, another says that he
is G-d, ...? Can I add something to this list: he is dead. End of this
fiction story.

>
>I can appreciate your not wanting missionizing posts in s.c.j., I can
>understand your not accepting Christianity, but any postings which
>espouse incorrect info about Christianity will tend to even bring the
>lurkers out of the woodwork.
>

Considering info above, what is the Correct info about Xnity. Is there
one? 
Yes , you are right. We don't accept Xnity, whether you understand it or
not, but not accepting it, we don't want to have anything to do with it
either. So, when people like that V.B. come here and start talking about
it and trying to convert people, I don't really care if somebody says
somehing that is not a very correct thing to say about Xnity. Guess
what? We don't need any info about xnity at all, correct or incorrect.

Thanks,
Dima
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
  dkhaikin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  ( Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio )
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jews, Cincinatti, and the KKK
Date: 12 Dec 92 21:30:16
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: emc@doe.carleton.ca's message of Sun, 13 Dec 1992 02:09:20 GMT

In article <emc.724212560@vash> emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout) writes:

   In <merlyn.724127301@digibd> merlyn@digibd.digibd.com (Merlyn LeRoy) writes:

   >Sorry, I can't agree with this sort of reasoning.  If you're going to allow
   >religious symbols on public property in the US, the government can't decide
   >whose religions are legitimate and whose aren't.  They'll have to allow
   >religious symbols from Satanists, too, if any apply.  Racist speech is
   >still protected speech; it doesn't matter if it's popular or not.

   This migt be legitimate reasoning IF the KKK was a religion.
   I suggest you study the recent German government movement on
   the neo-nazis.  

Merlyn's right, because the laws are different in the US.  The law
protects much more than just religious speech.  Hate speech, as long as
it doesn't constitute an immediate incitement to violence, is legal and
the government is not allowed to discriminate against it on the basis of
its content.
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write lpf@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rmt51@cas.org (Rick Turkel)
Subject: Re: atonement thru death of righteous person
Reply-To: rmt51@cas.org
Organization: S.W.I.G.
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:23:34 GMT

In article <1gaoa6INNlj0@coral.bucknell.edu>, () writes:
|>      
|> 
|> is it a valid JEWISH concept that the death of a righteous person will
|> expiate the sins of an entire generation,and if so,where does scripture
|> affirm such aprinciple
|> 
|> michael

No.
-- 
Rick Turkel           (___  ____ _  _  _  _  _     _  ___   _  _ _  ___
(rmt51@cas.org)           )    |  |  \  )  |/ \     |    |   |  \_)    |
(rmt51@cas.bitnet)       /     | _| __)/   | __)    | ___|_  | _( \    |
      Rich or poor, it's good to have money.        |
From: khaikin@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin)
Subject: Re: Messianics and us?
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 05:04:33 GMT

In article <92346.1743142893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> Andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>What to do about the messiah crowd?  a) write up a very detailed, comprehensive
>retort to messianic judaism/evangelical christianity including detailed
>biblical references as to why JC cannot be the messiah, keep it on file and
>post it as a form, and only response to any evangelicals who wander our way.
>
>                                     b) ignore them, do not acknowledge, do not
>respond (are we that disciplined?)
>                                     c) become evangelical Jews and respond to
>
>the JC crowd by sending them similar stuff telling them why they should convert
>to Judaism. If there is an ongoing campaign, start posting our evangelical
>message to their newsgroups!         :)

These are very good solutions except the last one. A Jew should not
encourage anybody to convert to Judaism. He should tell people that it
is not for them and so on...

Thanks,
Dima
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
   khaikin@cis.ohio-state.edu (Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio, USA)
From: peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Recipes in general
Date: 14 Dec 1992 23:45:08 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

jjsulliv@COLBY.EDU (Nice Young Lady(tm)) writes:

>Anyone got a recipe for "Haman Pockets"?  (Passover treat I heard about)

In Hebrew they're "oznay Haman" -- meaning Haman's ears.

	
-- 

                                                --  Michal
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course there's no reason!  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: muskudar@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (Michael Uskudarli)
Subject: Inquiry
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 11:05:30 GMT


    Hello,

I am very curious about three things and would appreciate if someone could
bring light to them.


1) I was told by a muslim that a muslim can eat anything that is Kosher for
a jewish person. Ias this true? If it is I am dumbfounded. Thinking that for
a person (muslim) who regards another person ( a jew) as an arch enemy
and than to claim that since the torah was actually correct at first and
than corrupted that they can eat what you can. Do you find this utterly
weird?

2) Have you read the book by Victor Ostrovsky " By way of deception" and
what do you think of it?

3) Is it true that in order to be a Jew, you must be born into it?



Thank you very much...

ps. you can send it to my e-mail or just post it to the net. It doesn't
matter one way or the other.   
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: strom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom)
Subject: Re: Messiah Jesus: re atonement thru death of a person
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 15:56:02 GMT
Organization: IBM Research
Followup-To: alt.messianic

In article <1992Dec14.195018.24560@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk>, ucakrvb@ucl.ac.uk (Vijay Bhuchar) writes:
|> 
|> Somebody asked for the Scriptural proof that a man
|> could die to make atonement for sins.
|> 
I don't believe anybody asked you to post it *here*.

|> The reference is Isaiah 53 - it is called the FORBIDDEN CHAPTER
|> since it is never read in a synagogue.  Modern copies of the Tenach 
|> actually delete verses 53:4 onwards.
|> 

No Jew calls it the forbidden chapter.

Tell me which edition of the Tanach have you seen 
with these verses deleted?
Or are you repeating something somebody told you?
My Tanach has all these verses, and I have discussed
their meaning on alt.messianic.  As with all
other such verses, they only mean what Christians
think they do if you already accept the Christian
faith.  Viewed either neutrally or from a Jewish
perspective they don't mean what you want.  For
example, the same Isaiah 53:10 which Christians love
to preach as a supposed reference to Jesus says "and he shall
see his seed and prolong his days".  (Jesus died
young and, as far as we know, childless.)

|> 
|> Incidentally for those of you who believe in killing animals
|> for atonement I say why not kill a man for atonement?
|> 

When it suits you to restrict yourself to what is
in the Bible, you do this.  When it suits you to
make up analogies on your own, you make them up.  Judaism
teaches that human rights and animal rights are
different.  No verse of the Bible says that
a man should be killed for atonement, so why are
you bringing this up?

Surely by now you are aware that discussions between
Christians and Jews about whether the Jewish Bible
is compatible with Christianity belong on alt.messianic,
to which I have directed followups.

If you post there, perhaps you will get a response,
but be advised that you're saying things that have
already been discussed there to death.

Do not post here (SCJ) again.  If you do, I recommend
that no one answer.  



-- 
Rob Strom, strom@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7641
IBM Research, 30 Saw Mill River Road, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller)
Subject: Re: To all Jews: STOP the negative Jewish
Organization: AL/HRTI, Brooks AFB
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:55:38 GMT

On Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:54:30 GMT, yaffe@icd.teradyne.com (Art Yaffe) said:
 > In article 724430329@ro, emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout) writes:
>>In <1992Dec15.024433.4412@netcom.com> madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann) writes:
>>
>>>   Jews like to argue
>>
>>They do not!

 > Do SO!

	Sources!  Quote me sources!

-- Cerebus <tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil>
"I'll only believe it's true if Rashi said so!  ;)"