HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: 100 People Surveyed, top 5 answers are on the board...
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 22:11:37 EST(-0500)
Organization: Accuracy, Ltd.
Reply-To: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v0

arpepper@math.uwaterloo.ca (Adrian Pepper) writes:
>  Survey ... "Name something you haven't ridden on in years":
> 1.  Bicycle          27
>   .........
> 8-(

Hey, it could be better, but 73% remember riding a bicycle.  That isn't half
bad.  If it were an election, 73% would be considered a landslide.  Of the
other things on the list, roller coasters, merry-go-rounds, and trains are
completely passive rides, so not really comparable.  The closest figure was for
horses, and some people do that as a passive ride.  In that light, bicycles
don't look so bad.

Edward Reid  (8*}>
  eel:   ed@titipu.resun.com  or  nosc.mil!titipu.resun.com!ed
  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330
From: sjlt@leland.Stanford.EDU (Sean Lev-Tov)
Subject: Re: Bicycles and Handguns..
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 17:06:32 GMT

In article <Bx903D.6I6@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes:
>kruemp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (John Kruempelstaedter) writes:
>>From the San Jose Mercury News  11/3/92 
>>Cops seek cyclist who shot assailants.
>>San Francisco homicide inspectors are appealing to 
>>a bicyclist who shot at three me attempting to rob him
>>in Pacific Heights on Monday morning to come forward
>>with his side of the story.  According to police,
>After what happened to Bernard Goetz this guy is not likely to come
>forward wioth his side of the story.  I sure as hell wouldn't.
>-Terry

I'm not familiar with Bernard Goetz and what happened to him.  Could
somebody let me/us know please?

Sean
From: kruemp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (John Kruempelstaedter)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Bicycles and Handguns..
Date: 4 Nov 92 18:17:52 GMT
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server


From the San Jose Mercury News  11/3/92 

Cops seek cyclist who shot assailants.

San Francisco homicide inspectors are appealing to 
a bicyclist who shot at three me attempting to rob him
in Pacific Heights on Monday morning to come forward
with his side of the story.  According to police,
the incident began when three Daly City men riding
in their car decided to rob a bicyclist near
Laguna Street and Broadway.  Homicide Lt. Bruce Lorin
said the three stopped their car and knocked the bicyclist
off his bike. The bicyclist then drew a semiautomatic handgun
and fired several rounds, striking two of his attackers.
The three assailants ran back to their car and started down
Laguna Street befor strikin a parked car.  The driver, Fernando    
Ramirez, 20, was dead at the scene, but it was not clear
whether he died of bullet wounds or the crash, said Lorin.


++++++++++++++++

Just thought I would put this on the net to reopen
the handguns on bicycles debate.....:-)

John K.
From: tbrowne@jarthur.claremont.edu (T. Erik Browne)
Subject: Re: bicyclist SHOOTS attackers
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:39:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.221701.12037@island.COM> don@island.COM (Don Hermes) writes:
>>I hope he doesn't turn himself in. Remember Bernie Goetz getting sued
>for causing mental aguish by his attackers.

I don't want to start a flame war over Bernie Goetz, but there is a big
difference between the two cases.  Goetz opened fire on several youths who
had done nothing but ask him for change (we will not discuss the fact that
this is often used before a mugging).  The S.F. individual was knocked down
by his assailants.  One person was defending himself from attack, the other
made a preemptory attack on individuals who might have been assailants.

>Don

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T. Erik Browne                          | Harvey Mudd College
tbrowne@hmcvax.claremont.edu            | Claremont, CA  91711
tbrowne@jarthur.claremont.edu           | Best college west of Upland
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry.  No .sig today.
From: Dave Snyder <davesnyder@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Date: 10 Nov 92 16:34 PST
Subject: hand-cranked bike sources/donation
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1702500016:000:501
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!davesnyder    Nov 10 16:34:00 1992


Does anyone know of a source for a hand-cranked bike for the disabled? I've
seen pictures of some in the past.

There's a disabled boy, about ten years old, who lives in my housing complex.
His father, brother and sister ride bikes, and he watches them longingly.
Once his dad sat him on the saddle of his bike and wheeled him around the
parking lot, much to his delight. I thought I might look into raising funds
to buy him a hand-cranked bike if I could find one.

Ellen Fletcher

fletchere@aol.com
From: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Should lights be req. Std. Equipment?
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 23:46:01 EST(-0500)
Organization: Accuracy, Ltd.
Reply-To: ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid)
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v0

josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam) writes:
> I can't think of any standard lighting system that would not
> be a burden on almost all cyclists.  The majority do not
> ride in the dark, so the lighting is wasted money.  Those of
> us who ride in the dark a lot would throw away whatever
> cheap system was used to squeeze past the requirements

Perhaps most significantly, the group that is most at risk is the
un-knowledgeable -- those who don't understand the danger, or don't care
about it.  Requiring lights as standard equipment on automobiles works,
because those people always have lights available at the flip of a switch. 
But the "cheap system that squeezed past the requirements" is certain to be
one that uses non-rechargeable batteries, and the riders at risk are not
likely to replace the batteries when needed (or even to be aware of the
need), with the result that the batteries would always be dead when they need
the lights.  So I would extend the categories to

   Don't ride at night -- system is wasted since it's not used
   Ride intelligently at night -- will replace system anyway
   Ride at night otherwise -- system is unusable due to dead batteries

As others have pointed out, a high-quality system (one that provides
convenience at the level of automobile lighting) would simply be too
expensive compared to the rest of a bicycle.

It would be great if by requiring simple equipment, we could ensure everyone's
safety.  That just doesn't seem to be feasible in this case.

Perhaps the only argument in favor of lights as standard equipment is that the
US CPSC requires a bunch of near-useless reflectors which do little except to
lull people into thinking the bike is night-safe, so they should instead
require equipment which actually makes the bike night-safe.  I don't buy it. 
Replace the reflectors with stickers that say "safe night riding requires a
headlight".  At least the reflectors are cheap and easy to remove, but they
still occupy landfill space.

Edward Reid  (8*}>
  eel:   ed@titipu.resun.com  or  nosc.mil!titipu.resun.com!ed
  snail: PO Box 378/Greensboro FL 32330
From: SteveSgt@cup.portal.com (Steven Eugene Sergeant)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Should lights be req. Std. Equipment?
Date: Thu,  5 Nov 92 18:05:30 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa

We all know that helmets save lives.  Whether they should be required
is a hotly debated topic that people will be ranting and raving on-and-
on about for years.  But how about lighting?

Some countries, The Netherlands and West Germany for example, require
that all new bicycles sold with a street license have a lighting system
that conforms to a DIN standard (number 49848-T2 I think).  Should
lighting be required standard equipment on street-legal bicycles in
the U.S.A.?

I personally think it's a good idea, and I want to read your comments.
Requiring lighting would mandate manufacturers to reinvest energy
into producing bicycles that meet practical transportation needs,
rather than concentrating on the style driven whims of the sport-
riders.  Why can't I buy a 6-speed bike with a chain guard, fenders,
a sturdy rack, and lighting as standard equipment for commuting purposes?
Why are the extemely reliable and relatively maintanence-free 3 and
5 speed hubs no longer available on bicycles of quality construction?

I suppose some of this might belong in rec.bicycles.tech, but it seems
like a social issue to me.  Anyway, I've digressed.  Isn't it time to
make lighting REQUIRED STANDARD EQUIPMENT?  (What if it was optional
on motorized vehicles?)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Steve Sergeant            Internet:  SteveSgt@torrent.sj.ca.us
3266 Tulipwood Ln.           Radio:  KC6ZKT [@N0ARY.#NOCAL.US.NA]
San Jose, CA  95132          GEnie:  STEVSERGEANT
(408) 945-0395                 FAX:  (408) 945-0543
Audio Engineering, Music, Macintosh, Bicycles, Backcountry, Japan
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com (Bob Geer)
Subject: Re: hand-cranked bike sources/donation
Reply-To: bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:57:04 GMT

>Ellen Fletcher writes under Dave Snyder's userid <davesnyder@igc.apc.org>:
>> 
>> Does anyone know of a source for a hand-cranked bike for the disabled? I've
>> seen pictures of some in the past.
>> 
>> There's a disabled boy, about ten years old, who lives in my housing complex.
>> His father, brother and sister ride bikes, and he watches them longingly.
>> Once his dad sat him on the saddle of his bike and wheeled him around the
>> parking lot, much to his delight. I thought I might look into raising funds
>> to buy him a hand-cranked bike if I could find one.

From the bike faq:

Angle Lake Cyclery
20840 Pacific Hwy S.
Seattle WA 98198
Phone (206)878-7457      Counterpoint Presto SWB with uprighthandlebars.
                             Presto SE Tour $1699.
                             Presto SE High Performance $???.
                             Presto CL $1399.
                         Counterpoint Opus IV Tandem
                             Opus CL $2999
                             Opus SE $3599
                         Tri Com Trikes $600-$700.
                         Catalogue $2

I obtained a catalog for a paraplegic friend here in SLC.  Their Opus
tandem is configurable for different types of handicaps & has a
hand-crank option for the stoker.  The stoker sits on the front in a
recumbent cycle seat with leg supports, the captain sits on the back
in std. diamond frame position & his handlebars connect to the steer
tube by a drag link that passes under the stoker's seat.

I actually saw an Opus in use on the Cycle Oregon IV ride.  A person
with cerebal palsy (I think) sat in front working foot cranks with
special leg supports to keep his legs inline, & several people rode as
captain at different times.  Hearsay was that the Opus was a pretty
reasonable ride.
-- 
<> Bob `Bear' Geer | bgeer@beorn.sim.es.com                        |_______| <>
<>      lift-holic |  (this *often* works)        _O_    |___O___| | |_O_| | <>
<> Salt Lake City, | speaking only for myself, |_|_|_|_| | `'|`' |     |     <>
<>          Ootah  | one of my many tricks     |  / \  |    / \       / \    <>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: ward@cs.uiuc.edu (Christ Ward)
Subject: Re: bicyclist SHOOTS attackers
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 15:34:17 GMT

"Curtis E. Bower" <cb4m+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>Actually, where I  lived(d)  in North Carolina, I knew several cyclists
>that did carry weapons.  They weren't small caliber either.  They were
>rather large bore.  And in fact one of the guys I know has had it come
>in handy for , shall we say, overly enthusiastic motorists.  Anyway,
>carrying a weapon while riding has good aspects and negative ones.  If
>we start carrying weapons, then people that harras us might start to
>take more drastic actions other than just throwing stuff at us.  They
>might see a gun strapped to your back then just say "Gosh, lets see if I
>can hit him before he can shoot at me.  What fun!"  But I know a gun
>might come in handy in cases like the one in the aricle.  Ah, who knows?
> 
>	Whatever, just some thoughts...

Just a data point...I was talkin to a Biker (you know the motor
driven sort) he was tellin me that in Az. (and mabey others)
if a biker is packing he/she must pack it in full view (a true
side arm).  Anyway, he loved to ride in Az. because he got ton's
of respect on the road from the cagers.  He didn't say anything
negative about it, but that's not to say there are no negatives.
However, if cagers just thought we all had a 9mm Glock, we would 
probably get more respect in general.  Just FYI.

ward DoD#0710

>-Curt
>A.K.A. Wolverine

>______________________________________________________________
>"Aw man!  Just as my coil was reaching the green line!"
>						-Kaneda 
>						(from 'Akira')
>_______________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Risk ratio (was: Ticketing illegal cycling)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:23:04 GMT

In article <1ddutbINNg96@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joel Plutchak) writes:
>
>   Absolutely.  You hit the nail on the head.  How else to explain those
>who rabidly defend their right to break any and all traffic laws while
>bicycling, yet expect other road users to comply?

Joel, out in the Livermore Valley area you can be so far out in the 
country that the only living thing close to you is the occassional cow.
Yet, you can find stop signs on corners where you can see for well over
a mile.

Now there may be some very slight explaination for these stop signs
when applied to automobiles, because some people are totally blind
in their air-conditioned, stereo blasted, steel cocoons. But there is
no sane reason for a bicyclist to stop at these things.

This whole thread seem to start when someone said that they run the
occassional stop light when no-one else was around. Since that time
I watched some of the most Rube Goldberg explainations of what could 
happen. These appologists for corrupt traffic planners have entirely
missed the point.

Stop signs aren't installed for safety any longer. They are installed 
because the budget will afford another placement. Every one of these
signs is an additional load on the time and money of the citizens and
most are too stupid to realize just what the expense is. Just to give
you an idea -- one study suggested that if every unnecessary stop sign
and stop light were removed, the gas shortage of the 70's would never
have occurred and smog standards could be less stringent. Since the smog
and safety additions to a car adds a couple of thousand dollars it is
significant.

In any case, to stop at every stop sign and every stop light because
you theorize that there was a plan behind it is preposterous.

Let me add that I _never_ run a stop light except for good reasons. i.e.
if it is a light that isn't tripped by a bicycle (left turn lanes
are commonly like this.) And in this case I almost always come to a 
complete stop and wait a cycle to see if it will switch.

I have never ridden with _anyone_ that stopped completely at every stop
sign and to suggest that anything more than a small minority would
do so is unrealistic in the extreme.

This whole discussion about "people taking the traffic laws into their
own hands" is about as rediculous as can be imagined. Perhaps you or
others believe that some bureaucrat in an office somewhere can
assertain the conditions at a particular area better than those present
at the scene but the majority trust their own judgements further.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Should lights be req. Std. Equipment?
From: alanb@sdl.mdcbbs.com (Alan Braggins)
Date: 06 Nov 92 17:50:54 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Shape Data (Division of EDS), Cambridge UK
In-reply-to: SteveSgt@cup.portal.com's message of Thu,  5 Nov 92 18:05:30 PDT

>>>>> On Thu,  5 Nov 92 18:05:30 PDT, SteveSgt@cup.portal.com (Steven Eugene Sergeant) said:

> We all know that helmets save lives.  Whether they should be required
> is a hotly debated topic that people will be ranting and raving on-and-
> on about for years.  But how about lighting?

> I suppose some of this might belong in rec.bicycles.tech, but it seems
> like a social issue to me.  Anyway, I've digressed.  Isn't it time to
> make lighting REQUIRED STANDARD EQUIPMENT?  (What if it was optional
> on motorized vehicles?)

At least in the UK, it is. If a vehicle has lights, they must work, and it is
an offence to drive at nights without lights, but a friend of mine drove an old
motorbike with no lights for some time.
Construction and Use Regulations do mean that any new car will have lights though.

--
     Alan Braggins, alanb@sdl.mdcbbs.com, abraggins@cix.compulink.co.uk
Shape Data - A division of EDS-Scicon Limited.   Cambridge, UK +44-223-316673
   "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
 "My employer does not necessarily share my views - but I'm working on it."
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: yendtj@ccs.QueensU.CA (John Yendt)
Subject: Video to go with Foresters Can Bike II course
Keywords: video forester course
Organization: Queen's University, Kingston
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:03:13 GMT

I want to acquire a copy of the video produced by John Forester (or for him) to be used with his book on effective cycling.  There was an address at one time on this discussion (or the original rec.bicycles), but I don't have it.  If anyone knows where to get this please email me.

Thanks
From: wade@hobbes.ucsd.edu (Wade Blomgren)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: 100 People Surveyed, top 5 answers are on the board...
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:20:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: network.1e0rl7INN6me
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ucsd.edu

In an article, ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid) responds:
> arpepper@math.uwaterloo.ca (Adrian Pepper) writes:
> >  Survey ... "Name something you haven't ridden on in years":
> > 1.  Bicycle          27
> >   .........
> > 8-(
> 
> Hey, it could be better, but 73% remember riding a bicycle.  That isn't half
> bad.  

Would that it were true, but, sadly, this is not a valid interpretation.
The question was "name something you haven't ridden in years".  The 
response means only that the FIRST thing 27% of the people thought of was a 
bicycle.  The other 73% simply thought of something else that they have not 
ridden.  It says nothing about whether they have or have not ridden a 
bicycle (ever).  

Now if you were to ask "have you NOT ridden a BICYCLE in years?" and
27% said "yes", then your analysis would be correct.  But I think the
number would be more like 90%, maybe more.

Wade
From: plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joel Plutchak)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Risk ratio (was: Ticketing illegal cycling)
Date: 11 Nov 1992 14:52:27 GMT
Organization: Brown University Planetary Geology
NNTP-Posting-Host: pilsner.geo.brown.edu

In article <2930160123.0.p00004@psilink.com> "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com> writes:
>>DATE:   6 Nov 1992 14:19:23 GMT
>>FROM:   Joel Plutchak <plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu>
>>  [....]  How else to explain those
>>who rabidly defend their right to break any and all traffic laws while
>     ^-----^
>
>Grrr. Damn froth keeps dripping on my handlebars.

   Stay away from cloth handlebar tape.
--
Joel Plutchak, Research Programmer/Analyst
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles:23616 rec.motorcycles:38467
From: sham@cs.arizona.edu (Shamim Zvonko Mohamed)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Spanning The Globe
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:35:12 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <4236@cvbnetPrime.COM> tjohnson@atc1.UUCP (Tod J Johnson) writes:
>From 1988 to 1990...
>
>*3 out of every 4 motorcyclists make up 75% of the motorcycling population
> while only 2 out of every 5 bicyclists make up only 40% of the bicycling
> population.

That explains it. I have always felt that 3 out of every 5 riders were in the
majority, but Tod (yet again!) has brought enlightenment.

Thank you, Tod; and for the rest of you out there, I hope you considered my
advice and voted Johnson/Nemeth '92.

Still accepting applicants for the Unofficial Tod Johnson Devotee Club,

-s
--
  Shamim Mohamed / {uunet,noao,cmcl2..}!arizona!shamim / shamim@cs.arizona.edu
  "Take this cross and garlic; here's a Mezuzah if he's Jewish; a page of the
    Koran if he's a Muslim; and if he's a Zen Buddhist, you're on your own."
 Member of the League for Programming Freedom - write to league@prep.ai.mit.edu
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles:23633 misc.fitness:8316
From: klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Winter Warmth: Lycra Vs. Everything else
Date: 10 Nov 92 00:08:20 GMT
Reply-To: klee@wsl.dec.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: DEC Western Software Laboratory

|> alot. My question is the following. Does lycra (such as the
|> running and cycling tights - both long and short) have any
|> distinct warmth advantages?

Lycra alone will keep your legs warm down to around 40 or 50 degrees;
somewhat lower if you ride fast, somewhat higher if you coast alot.  In
colder weather, I usually wear polypro tights under lycra tights.  You
can get polypro in thin or thick versions for use in different
conditions.  In windy or wet weather, I wear windproof nylon over the
lycra.

Note that your legs are working hard, so won't need as much insulation
as the rest of your body.  You'll probably need an one or two more
layers on your torso than on your legs.

-- 
Ken Lee
DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif.
Internet: klee@wsl.dec.com
uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles:23606 rec.running:3075
From: PAPAI@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Jonathan Papai)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.running
Subject: Re: ExerCiSe and calories burned
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:04:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: magnus.1992Nov5.180400.9397
 <1992Nov5.111752.9406@doug.cae.wisc.edu>
Organization: The Ohio State University

brianh@hp-20.cae.wisc.EDU (Brian Huilman) writes:
>I'm hoping that perhaps with all of this political change about to take
>place in the country, the 'common folk' will also see this as an opportune time
>to take control of/change their lives for the better.  This country has been
>run by overweight, cholesterol ridden, heart-attack-candidates for too long.
>Time for America to start getting into shape physically, mentally, and
>politically/governmentally!!!!  (I'll step down from my soap box now... :)

	I don't think it's fair to speak of the previous leaders
of our country as overweight, cholesterol ridden, heart-attack candidates.
Based on what I've seen, Bush is more physically fit than Clinton,
and certainly a better runner compared to his age group.  Reagan
is also a great example of fitness for a man his age.  Pick on the
old gaurd politically all you want (not in this group please)
but I believe they are among the most fit Presidents we've had in
a long time.

-Jon

"Clinton starts out running slow, and then tapers off." -Some TV reporter.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.bicycles.marketplace,rec.bicycles.tech
From: tan@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (David Tan,Box 219 Baker Lab,54810,2720402)
Subject: 185 mm cranks
Originator: tan@msc2.msc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 15:09:10 GMT

If you're looking for extra long cranks, you might look at TA, a French
company which makes cranks from 150mm to 200mm.  Their presence in the
States is minimal, but a decent bike shop might be able to get you a set,
or at least tell you how to get in touch with them.  I don't think they're
anywhere nearly as expensive as the $200+ Graftons, etc that someone
mentioned.  

Dave

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.motorcycles