HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kshan@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: Re: My: Think Malaysia, not Malay, Chinese, Indian.
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 00:38:57 GMT


In the article, on nov, 9, 1992. eng20009@nusunixl.nus.sg (tan Gim Wee) 
wrote :

> Kshan@kean.ucs.mun.ca, wrote:

> I know that I'm a Malaysian, I will always be a Malaysian. I'm very sure 
  that all the chinese and Indian believe that their roots are in Malaysia 
  not in China and difinitely not in Indian. We always cheer with 
  Malaysia's success and glory, and we think that we are considered as 
  Malaysian by the government. But, if you guys still remenber that in 1989 
  Dr. Mahathir said in the newspaper that we Chinese should satisfy with 
  our 2nd class citizenship, because we can only get 3rd or 4th class 
  citizenships in other countries, instead of 2nd class.

>> Hmmm...is that true ? There must be somewhere that you can be 1st class 
   citizen, right !


  Sure there got to have some place else that we can be 1st class citizen. 
But this is not the point ! The point is, do you think all the Chinese and 
Indian in Malaysia deserve such a irresponsible remark from our own PM ? 
His attitude has virtually denied other ethnic groups's participation in 
developing Malaysia. I can't tolerate that, can you ? And now people like 
Anwar could be the head of Malaysian government one day. Don't forget that 
when he was education minister, he tried to destroy all the Chinese 
primarly schools. That is why Mr. Othman is so happy. Look at Mr. "racist" 
Othman now; he is praising him incessantly. Talking about how excellent 
Anwar is !! Get a life Othman!!
  

By: K.S.SHAN

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: khor@bnr.ca (Kyle Hor)
Subject: Re: Mal news ,  Nov 9, Monday, 1992
Reply-To: khor@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:46:04 GMT

In article <BxGw87.8A0@andy.bgsu.edu>, subraman@andy.bgsu.edu (ANAND) writes:
|> In article <6820@news.duke.edu>, jit@slic.cellbio.duke.edu writes:
|> > The Strait Times, Monday, Nov 9th, 1992
|> > 
|> > Stop expecting KL to help bumis get rich: Mahathir
|> > "Work hard as gvt has done everything it can"
|> > (By Kalimullah Hassan)
|> > 
[removed...]
|> >   "You have to accept the fact that the only way to progress is to work
|> > hard.  If you can accept that, then we will succeed."
|> 
|>   Why would they work hard if everything is provided and given to them. I 
|>   wouldn't work hard. Why should I?
|> 
|> Geeva Subramaniam
|> Bowling Green State University.
|> 
BTW, this phenomena also occur in Canada in a non-racial dimension. 
People receiving welfare in Canada have no motivation to work at all
(far from working hard) as they cannot justify working when they are
being fed comfortably by the govt and have all the leisure in the
world.
 
............................................................................
. Kyle Hor                    .    /       / _   .  Email  khor@bnr.ca     .
. Bell-Northern Research Ltd. .   /__\  / / /_\  .  Phone  (613) 763-2488  .
. Ottawa, Ontario, Canada     .  / \  \/ /  \__  .  ESN          393-2488  .
....................................__/.....................................
................  standard disclaimer, 2 cents opinion  ....................
.............  searching forever, for the perfect solution  ................
From: yewhan@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Yew Han Hee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: MY: Think Malaysian, not Malay, Chinese, Indian.
Date: 7 Nov 1992 03:55:07 GMT
Organization: University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: tartarus.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Encik Kong (ins774h@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au) wrote:
: >-- article 232:NST:10/17/92
: 
: >KUALA LUMPUR - Malaysian must make a conscious effort to accept and practice
: >the concept of "bangsa Malaysia" (Malaysian nationality) to promote unity
: >and goodwill, the Deputy Minister in the Prime Minister's Department, Raja
: >Datuk Ariffin Raja Sulaiman, said on Tuesday.
: 
: >    "National integration is possible if there is a total acceptance of
: >the concept of 'bangsa Malaysia' among the people," he said.
: 
: >    Raja Ariffin said the press should be pro-active in promoting the
: >concept of a Malaysian nationality to make people more aware of it.
: >"Malaysians cannot run away from the reality that, to attain a cohesive
: >and united society, they ..... should identify themselves as a Malaysian
: >and not as a Malay, Chinese or Indian," he added. - NST. 10/15/92.
: 
: 	Does this mean that when I deal with government agencies I won't be
: 
: queried for my "Bangsa" and "Agama" in every application forms?
: 
In my opinion, the matter of which "Bangsa" are you from, and
what "Agama" do you believe, is just a matter of personal
information and preference, and if all Malaysian think that they
should live in a harmony country call Malaysia, they should try
to accept others' preferences. 

I always believe that, Malaysia will be a "united" Country, in
the sense that, all Malaysian will be proud of themself as a
Malaysian, and everybody living in a harmony and peaceful life,
IF one will always consider other's feeling.

Scncerely,

-- yewhan.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Yew Han Hee (Yao1 Han4)            Malaysian
  University Of Western Australia    yewhan@tartarus.uwa.edu.au
  Computer Science 2nd year          Tel: +61 (09) 389 1128
  Add: 3/70, Broadway, Nedlands, 6009 Western Australia, Australia.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: kytan@mantra.fia.dmg.ml.com (Kok-Yong Tan)
Subject: Singaporean process (was: Canada and Quebec (was: REFERENDUM '92))
Organization: Organised?  Here?  Hahahahahahahaha.....
	<1992Nov6.152738.13901@cs.mcgill.ca> <6NOV199210240665@sscvx1.ssc.gov>
	<BxDr7J.K3G@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 14:32:37 GMT

In article <BxDr7J.K3G@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> tdwebste@sparta.uwaterloo.ca (Timothy D. Webster) writes:

   From my knowlege Singapore is not controlled by a dictator, but rather
   people have chosen to the same party repeatedly over the last 25 years.  
   This difference is fundamental. If the party currently in power enrages
   the public they will be defeated. 

When there has been but one party for the majority of the 25 years with the odd
cuckoo in a one-man party from time to time, there isn't much choice.  The
elections are based on the British system, where the winning party chooses its
own Prime Minister internally.  As such, there are no direct votes for a
candidate for the post.  e.g.  It would be like Clinton campaigning and winning
only in Arkansas and hoping that members of his party will win in their own
districts throughout the US, so that when the Democratic party wins as a whole,
the Democratic party would then elect him as their leader.  Kind of a reversed
version of the American process.


--
===============================================================================
Kok-Yong Tan, 			  	| My words are my own: 
Fixed Income Analytics Group, 	  	| My bosses know naught.
Merrill Lynch,			  	| Wherever they're sown,
World Financial Center, North Tower, 	| Just I should be sought.
New York, NY 10281-1315.	  	|		- K. Y. Tan, 5 Feb 1992
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
InterNet: kytan@fia.dmg.ml.com (Merrill Lynch)
	  75046.256@compuserve.com (CompuServe)
===============================================================================
From: cheu@triton.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu)
Subject: Re: Males with long hair
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Reply-To: cheu@triton.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu)
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:52:52 GMT


Has RTM shown any of the Michael Bolton video ?  Michael Jackson
should be banned too, for his long hair.
From: wslee@almond-frost.ai.mit.edu (Whay Sing Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Immigrants Problem (Re: MY: Think Malaysian, ...
Date: 8 Nov 1992 17:19:44 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: almond-frost.ai.mit.edu

In article <16898CCC0.C580503@mizzou1.missouri.edu>, C580503@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Albert Foo) writes:
|> ..... [ stuff deleted ] ......                      Take for example
|> the vast population of Indonesian immigrants who had assimilated into
|> the Malaysian culture, adopted Malay names, etc., but DO NOT practise
|> Islam.
|> Do they get the "special priviledge"  too (assume they are citizens with
|> blue ID card) ?  What about their children (assume they are natural-
|> born in Malaysia) ? 
|> .... [stuff deleted]........


	This seems to be a very legitimate question (and concern).  Does anyone know the
actual policy on this matter ?   Please do share with us.


whay.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: lteo_ss@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Leslie Teo)
Subject: Re: The savings rate in Singapore
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 17:33:54 GMT

In article <1992Nov05.005430.24438@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk> zcakilh@ucl.ac.uk (Miss Chee Mei Yeoh) writes:
>Leslie Teo writes :
> 
[Stuff deleted on savings]

Sorry about the repeat post. I should learn not to write when I'm eating
. I'm sure my post didn't make sense.

I agree with you. I just wanted to point out the high savings doesn't
necessary mean higher growth or consumption. Savings aren't an ends but
a means. Furthermore in Young's paper it is not so much savings that is
the problem but low productivity. That is, why is the return (in
terms of output) so low given the level of capital investment? And to
repeat myself, the paper attempts to explain a phenomena & is not meant
as a critique of S'pore. It's not even geared towards any policy
recommendations: in some ways it's an opportunity for Young to test his
learning by doing theory.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: af620@yfn.ysu.edu (Andrew Tan)
Subject: Re: The savings rate in Singapore
Reply-To: af620@yfn.ysu.edu (Andrew Tan)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 13:16:17 GMT


In a previous article, zcakilh@ucl.ac.uk (Miss Chee Mei Yeoh) says:

>Leslie Teo writes :
> 
>> Reducing the savings rate can improve present and future consumption.
> 
>Right. Certainly, in a closed economic space, under-consumption can be a
>major problem. If Singapore's savings rate applied world-wide, it might
>well be that this would be pareto inefficient. However, if Singapore was
>able to create foreign demand for [and therefore consumption of] its
>output, pareto efficiency would recommend a higher level of savings than
>would otherwise be the case. What I'm saying is that a high level of
>savings in Singapore can be pareto efficient provided that foreign
>consumption of our output prevents [possible] domestic under-consumption
>from hurting our economy. Certainly, my intuitions are that we should
>maintain a relatively high level of savings.
>


Errr.....what is Pareto Efficient and Inefficient ???

Yo No Comprende El Greeko.


ATAN
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: ins774h@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Mr. Thaddaeus)
Subject: Re: Malaysia's racial policies
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:01:34 GMT

psyctwo1@cc.newcastle.edu.au (PSYCTWO1) writes:

>In article <1992Nov9.011946.1282@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg>, eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
>> everybody. NO, ONLY deserving ones, that is those who cannot afford. The fact
>> that there are more non-bumis overseas students show that they can afford it
>> more than the bumis. Figures do not lie. You blatantly lie.

>Staying with Malaysian O'sea's students, they tell me that they are out here
>because they couldn't get into a local university.  Some of them have hardly
>any cash, and I know of one who signed an agreement with the Australian
>Government not to return to Aus. for at least two years, if he had an Aus.
>Gov. loan.  In fact, I have yet to meet a Malay 'Bumi' student.

>Fal...c9110499@brolga.newcastle.edu.au

	Actually, it is the EMSS (Equity and Merit Scholarship Scheme).
It is offered to overseas student as part of the Australian Gov's overseas 
aid, with the objective of educating people so that they can return to their
country to help develope it (therefore cannot stay in Australia).
	How do I know? I am one of them and how do you think it feels to tell
people your government is providing ZERO cents towards your education and that
you are sponsored by a foreign gov?
	The NEP is a failure because it failed in one of it's objectives, to
foster a greater unity among the races but so far my generation has grown up
resenting the system. The gov should provide aid based on merit and needs, 
keeping the quota in mind, NOT by skin colour and ignoring someone's merits.
The focus of NEP should have been the eratication of poverty irrespective of
race, not just blindly say just because you are a bumi you get this and that.
	The ASN shares should be issued to bumis with low income (or preferably,
everyone with a low income irrespective of race) and those who are well to 
do should compete with outer people on an equal footing. It is absurd when 
people who are rich get to plunder the system to make a quick buck. 

-- 
--------------------- <-:[ ------------------ ]:-> ---------------------------
Thaddaeus Kong			             ins774h@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au
Monash University, Melbourne, Australia.
Quote : "Don't you just hate it when the question doesn't suit your answer?"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: psyctwo1@cc.newcastle.edu.au (SORRY SCOTT... WAS AN ACCIDENT ;))
Subject: Re: who wanna know!
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 02:33:30 GMT

In article <changh.720904442@sfu.ca>, changh@fraser.sfu.ca (Chang Tih Ho) writes:
> bw594@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Steven H. Villiers) writes:
> 
> 
>>Mind if I ask, just what does a Caucasian sounds like?
>>[Wonders why his backspace key doesn't work....hmmmm]
> 
> 
> Well, as far as I am concerned, a Caucasian is like any other races;
> if that is a male, he has a dick. Otherwise, she has boobs(spelling?)
> 

But that doesn't answer the question of what one sounds like...

My other account didn't quote the message...bummer  :(

Fal...guess what??  reply to...c9110499@etc[getting tired of typing that ;]


> CT
>
From: ygoh@fraser.sfu.ca (Kelvin Goh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: To you malasian Singapore basher
Date: 8 Nov 92 22:01:33 GMT
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada

ustai@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:

>In article <ygoh.721077225@sfu.ca>, ygoh@fraser.sfu.ca (Kelvin Goh) writes:

>> 	I'm glad you have this view on East Malaysia. It isn't pleasant
>> to be regarded by other Malaysians that we live on trees. I've learned to
>> retort that by saying we get better TV reception up on the trees.

>	Seems that a M'sian student in California was extremely irked by the
>constant questions by all and sundry "Do you still live in trees?"  He
>on to tell him that *YOUR* ambassador lives in the tallest one."  A friend here
>lift"....  
>	Any other tales out there??  :)  Ciao.

>-Tai

	My prof also told me that some dumb fools doesn't know that 
fraser.sfu.ca is in British Columbia, Canada. Don't learn from Pak O,
know your facts before you shoot. :-) ^^^^^^
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: kytan@mantra.fia.dmg.ml.com (Kok-Yong Tan)
Subject: Re: Hongkong and Singapore compared, an economic report 60's-80's
Organization: Organised?  Here?  Hahahahahahahaha.....
	<Bx3q4I.E79@gabriel.keele.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 14:26:29 GMT

In article <Bx3q4I.E79@gabriel.keele.ac.uk> csn88@seq1.keele.ac.uk (K.M. Tay) writes:

{stuff deleted}

   Also think Singapore is only born about 27 years or so. That's why is
   not so better than HK. HK has been for a long time and doing a
   (Lassifaire) {correct me if wrong in spelling} policy. Singapore has to
   do from scratch by its own government not much support in economy from
   British. 

If I'm not wrong, Hong Kong had zero support from the British.  The British
were content with a laissez faire system so much so that it took riots to get
them to do anything.  So I don't think the British supported anything.



--
===============================================================================
Kok-Yong Tan, 			  	| My words are my own: 
Fixed Income Analytics Group, 	  	| My bosses know naught.
Merrill Lynch,			  	| Wherever they're sown,
World Financial Center, North Tower, 	| Just I should be sought.
New York, NY 10281-1315.	  	|		- K. Y. Tan, 5 Feb 1992
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
InterNet: kytan@fia.dmg.ml.com (Merrill Lynch)
	  75046.256@compuserve.com (CompuServe)
===============================================================================
From: cf379@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (J. Alan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: More on Homosexuality in Southeast Asia
Date: 11 Nov 92 02:16:23 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


My sincere thanks to the people who have written excellent
responses to my initial request for information.  There have
been a few recurring questions which it is simply more
efficient to answer all at once with this posting.
 
First, what am I looking for?
 
Well, part of my working hypothesis is not only that conditions
for people with same-sex orientations differ greatly around the
world, but also people's own ideas about sexuality (what the
salient "categories" are) are quite different.  The very
notions of homo- and hetero-sexuality originated only recently
in Western societies.  Once such ideas exist, people strive
to fit themselves into them (with the assumption that everyone's
experiences and sexual orientations can be categorized this
way).

I'm also interested in the *views* people hold.  If you are
someone from Southeast Asia who is attracted to people of the
same sex, what do you think about yourself?  Are you proud?
Do you think you are significantly different from others?
Why do you have the orientation that you do?  What have been
your experiences (sexual, relationships, personal, with others
in your family, school, society in general)?

For those of you with opposite-sex orientations, what are
your views about homosexuality?  What about the dominant views
in your society?  Do you feel there is a place for same-sex
lovers?  Do you fear or hate gays or lesbians?  If yes, why?
If not, why not (given this emotional-psychological reaction
is widespread in the West, it seems)?  Do you have gay/
lesbian friends?  Are they "out" to you, and what is their
relationship to you?  What would be your reaction if you
found out your brother/sister was gay/lesbian, or that one
of your children had same-sex orientation??  Would you still
love and support them?  Would you try to "change" them?  Or
would you perhaps just hope that they kept it to themselves?
 
People have asked questions about me.  I'll answer some of
them.  I'm a scholar, I'm male, and my dominant orientation
is same-sexual.  I am conducting this research as part of a
very broad and long-term project on same-sexuality around
the globe.

You can write whatever you wish, including flames (which I will
not be upset by, but will treat as a data item for my research).

Thanks again for your help.

J. Alan
From: thc2@doc.ic.ac.uk (Tse Huong CHOO)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Bullshit!
Date: 13 Nov 1992 09:54:44 -0000
Organization: Department of Computing, Imperial College, University of London, UK.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: oak42.doc.ic.ac.uk


In article <97304@netnews.upenn.edu>, Azli writes:
 
>Just a note to the Malaysians "non-bumis", OUR government is trying the best
>to appease every Malaysians no matter what the color of their skin is. Please
>dont say that the Malaysian government is biased, unfair, etc. Look here, if 
>u chinese think that u r being discriminated against, then, what about the
>Malays in Singapore!!??? At least in Malaysia there are Chinese n Indians in 
>the cabinet.  Hasta Luego.

>Azli.
 
Yeah, right. Although many suspect that one race is being "appeased" more
than others. You imply that the Malays in Singapore are being "discriminated" against
and yet you offer no proof whatsoever.

Get off the net, you illogical smarmy twit. And just leave us all alone.


Tse

 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: khaw@eagle.sangamon.edu (Thiam Khaw)
Subject: Re: Looking for a friend in USM, Penang,Malaysia
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Sangamon State University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 21:57:25 GMT

Keywords: 

   In adalah ujian sahaja. Jangan peduli
From: fellow@cs.utexas.edu (Heng Wei Osbert Tan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Othman's argument
Date: 12 Nov 1992 09:12:30 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: yoakum.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Nov12.043413.27874@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg>, eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:

> ONE law that I find unfair is the compensation based on 1963(?) prices 
> instead  of the current price.
> 	Although it affects all races, the Malays suffer the most because they
> were former land owners by being first in Singapore.

Silly me, according to your argument, why is the native not running the 
Malaysian government, or the native Indian running the USA, or for that
matter the African running the whole world, since they were the earliest
occupants of their respective habitat ? As long as the law applied to 
everyone involved, I don't see the unfairness in it. Furthermore, I can 
assure you that by 1963, the Chinese population in Singapore were the most
and therefore suffered more in absolute number.

> 
> The recent advertisement for a "publicity officer" to be fluent in Mandarin
> and English is one. If it were for a Mandarin program we can understand but
> for a Publicity officer?

For ONE publicity officer ? Big deal, it will be surprising on the other hand,
if they don't atleast need a FEW Publicity Officers who are fluent in Mandarin.

> 
> It is not fair in Singapore because there is no requirement in Singapore
> to study Mandarin unlike Malaysia where everyone is required to study Malay.

Failure to regress is unfair ? Thanks, but no thanks.

Othman, seem like you have to try harder to show the newsgroup that there is
atleast ONE law, regulation or government practices in Singapore that may put 
our Malay brothers in a disadvantage position. Just ONE will do. Your inability
to do so rander all your previous arguments about "how Singaporean Malays are
suppressed" null, void and nothing but dirty little trick to divert your own
problem in addressing issues raised by others regarding conditions in Malaysia.
Your struggle to keep up with your own arguments by bringing out half baked
truth, hearsay, rumors and whathaveyou not, is pathetic, to say the least.
-- 
                                     _ _
---------------------------------ooo--U--ooo------------------------------------
fellow@cs.utexas.edu  Standard disclaimer applies. My opinions are, simply mine.
"heng2 mei2 leng3 dui4 qian1 fu1 zi3, fu2 shao3 gan1 wei2 ru2 zi3 nu2" Lu3 Xun4
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean