From: lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard)
Subject: Re: A paper I wrote for a speech class
Organization: The Turing Project, Public Access Internet Host
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 02:27:12 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.140533.24016@rambo.atlanta.dg.com> wpr@atlanta.dg.com (Bill Rawlins) writes:
>In article <1992Dec22.022237.16012@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>|> In article <1992Dec21.221328.29662@rambo.atlanta.dg.com> wpr@atlanta.dg.com (Bill Rawlins) writes:
>|> >In article <237@spchsys.spchsys>, jjt@spchsys.spchsys (John J. Turley) writes: 
>|> >   Most of the Jed-haters hate being told that there are
>|> >   divine laws   which they do not like; for example, laws against fornication.
>|> 
>|> To bad you don't know what fornication means. Before ramming the bible down
>|> our throats perhaps you should read a biblical commentary. The word
>|> fornication is derived from the name of the archs where prostitutes hung
>|> out. Saying not to visit prostitutes is not the same thing as saying not
>|> to have sex outside of marriage.
>
>      Sounds like you just took religion 101.  You sound like I did when
>      I was a student.  You are ruled by your hormones and you develop an
>      ethic to support it. 
>      I know what fornication means - It is from the
>      Greek word "pornia", which, curiously enough, is where we derive the
>      term "pornography".  

I'll see if I can find the reference to it meaning prostitution. It was
in a book of line by line biblical commentary. 

>     It stands for all impure sexual
>      relationships.  Read Hebrews 13:4 - The marriage bed is undefiled, 
>      but the pornia God will judge.  It is your own self-serving ethic
>      which says that fornication is only going to prostitutes.

The book was written by biblical scholars not by myself. I'm an atheist
and it only matters to me when it comes to debating. I'm basically
a utilitarian when it comes to ethics. If sex increases happiness then
it is right.

>|> Questions of the existance of God aside why should I take a messenger
>|> seriously who hasn't even taken the time to understand his own religion?
>      Jed is one of the most well-learned men you will meet.  He knows not 
>       only the Bible, but is extremely well-learned on history.

I'll post the exact statement and a list of the authors when I get a chance
to look it up again.

>|> >   not accept the message because I do not like the messenger.  Okay, the
>|> >   loss is yours and your excuse won't help you on judgment day.  
>|> 
>|> Your threats won't change reality.
>
>     I make no threats.  The question you have to grapple with is:
>     "What is reality?"  "Is there an absolute ethic, or can I 'roll my own?' "

There may be a "best" ethic however like everything else in reality it can
only be discovered through thought and expermentation. Old books have no
more authority than anything else. The ethics in the four Gospels are in
close agreement with systems of ethics arrived at by secular phylosophers
(sp?). However the rest of the bible has ethics worse than those practiced
by most street gang members. 

>|> >Examine the Bible and repent (which means to
>|> >    turn from your ways and surrender to God's ways). 
>|> 
>|> But if the bible is the word of God surrendering to what fundementalists
>|> demand would be to go against God. The Gospels are quite clear, if I was
>|> to become a Christian tomorrow I wouldn't be ashamed about having sex with
>|> another man, I would be ashamed that I had not given all my money to the
>|> poor.
>
>       Even nature teaches that homosexuality is wrong.  A little
>       anatomical analysis will reveal this in about five seconds.

And thinking a while longer will reveal that this is overly simplistic.
There are many possibility from:
Natures birth control
to
The Queer uncle theory

>        The question is, "Does God care?"  Yes, He destroyed Sodom and
>        Gomorrah because of it.  Read Romans chapter 1.  And Hebrews 13:4.

And raping guests had nothing to do with it? No one is saying that rape
is ok.

>        There is a way of forgiveness and the power to do right
>        for the Christian.  Repent now, and God will help you step out.

And join those others 6 feet under who finally committed suicide when God
would not "cure" them of the "terrible curse of homosexuality"?


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