HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cs30@prism.gatech.EDU (SMITH,CHRISTOPHER G)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Mary Pierce
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:18:21 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


>>> + Candidates for top 10 entry this year: McNeil (for the 2nd time),
>>>   Coetzer, Magdalena Maleeva.
>>
>>I think Pierce will make it at some point, too.  Your three have very good
>>chances, too.

What are people's impressions of Mary Pierce's game and how quickly she will
advance?  Obviously she's one of the hardest hitters in the women's game
which is to her advantage.  But my impression is that she needs to greatly
improve her accuracy, consistency, and court sense, and she will rise just
a few more spots in the rankings in the meantime.

However, I have not seen her play that often.  I did see her play Mary Joe
Fernandez in the U.S. Open this year... that was not a pretty sight.

..Chris

-- 
Christopher Smith, Georgia Tech (Atlanta)          csmith@cc.gatech.edu
From: mliu@garden.csc.calpoly.edu (Mei-Ling L. Liu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Re: Spoiler: Stich/Krajicek
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:04:25 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, UCSB

In article <Bz406q.IE7@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> snewstea@zeus (S.A. Newstead) writes:
>Just watched most of this match.  Stich wins, first set was a tie-break,
>second set I believe was 7-5 (I got out of the shower and it was over!)
>Perhaps some one else can give the full score.  Those Germans and their
>*damn* 'rhythmic clapping'!
The clapping is annoying, but it's to be expected, I suppose.  This
happened at the Edberg-Stitch match on Wednesday as well.   And there's
no question that Stitch has been helped by the crowd in both matches.
IMHO there are too many tournaments that take place in Germany, but
I heard that they can sell lots of tickets, so who can argue with money?
>Has Karjicek beat any top 5 players to date?
Yes, Edberg for one.  In fact, up until the U.S. Open, Edberg had a
0-2 record against Krajicek, who was the youngest player to reach
round four at that tournament this year.
He's a force to come.

M. Liu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: frank@austin.ibm.com (F. Karner)
Subject: Re: When the ball hit the body
Originator: frank@karner.austin.ibm.com
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:02:20 GMT
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstation Division


In article <88749@bcsaic.boeing.com>, huang@bcsaic.boeing.com (Mingyuh Huang) writes:
> A question here regarding the rules, maybe somebody can help me. 
> 
> It happened in a double game last weekend. Over a quick net
> exchange, I hit the ball on my opponent's knee (sorry, :-). The ball bounced
> back to our side and went off the court. I thought I won the point because
> the moment the ball touches the body the point is over. 
> 
> The interesting thing was both my opponents argued that because the body (of
> the person who got hit) was in the motion of hitting the ball therefore,
> according to the rules, they should get the point.

No, what you can't hit (or even touch) is the net.  The only
restriction, I think, is that the ball bounces at most once in play
(within the court's boundaries), how you choose to return it is your
choice.  You can use your knee, head, baseball bat, frying pan, etc.,
without making one iota of difference.  You may not get many balls
returned using something other than a tennis racket, but the
alternatives are legal.
-- 

         DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed in this posting are mine
            solely and do not represent my employer in any way.
       F. A. Karner AIX Technical Support | karner@austin.vnet.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: httse@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Herman T. Tse U.S.M.)
Subject: Re: grunting rule
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:27:52 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.2220.6701@dosgate>, "john russell" <john.russell@canrem.com> writes:
> It's against the rules to do anything that distracts your opponent
> _during the point_.  So you can hit a winner and shout "YES!", wave your
> arms, etc. afterwards, but not make loud noises or distracting movements
> while the ball is in play.  If Monica can grunt, her opponents can try
> primal scream therapy during points to help them relax and play better
> :-)

Does anyone have the exact wording of the rules?
I can understand understand that it  would be wrong 
if Monica screams or grunts while her opponent is
making a shot...but when she herself is hitting the ball??
For example, if I return a shot and as my opponent is about to hit
the ball I yell "JINX!!" then I can understand how that is distracting :->

There must be explicit or implicit exclusions to the "distract your opponent"
clause in the rules.

Herm
httse@descartes.uwaterloo.ca



Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin)
Subject: Re: ESPN tennis
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 02:52:02 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Maryversity von Uniland, College Park
Originator: clin@periodic.eng.umd.edu


In article <1992Dec13.230540.26714@cbnewsh.cb.att.com>, shun@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (shun.cheung) writes:
>The whispering problem is the result of their recent sitting arrangement.
>Drysdale and Stolle are up in the booth so that they can speak normally.
>Carillo, however, is now sitting at court side to cover what is going on
>from close range. There are some advantages of this arrangement. For
>example, during their Davis Cup coverage, Carillo was able to find out
>what was going on with the coaches and the other players. However,
>during points, she has to whisper or she would bother the people around
>her or even the players. She does raise her voice between points. I too
>find her whispering annoying though.

   In fact, if anyone used to watch the coverage of USA cable a few years
back, they used to have Donald Dell and another commentator (say Tim Mayotte
or Al Trautwig, etc.) at the booth and Barry MacKay at courtside.   Barry
also had to whisper during the points so he wouldn't disturb the players.

Spoilers follow----


    Today, Michael Stich played Michael Chang.   Stich pretty much dominated
Chang.   He served well, fetched lots of balls, and hit winners.   It
was helped by the fact that Chang didn't play that well, making quite a
few errors, which is not characteristic of him.   The ESPN commentators
felt that Chang played flat due to hit five set match against Ivanisevic,
and that Stich was playing very well.   The final score was 6-2, 6-3, 6-2,
or some similar score. Chang broke once in the third set, but was broken 
three times.  I believe this makes Chang and Sampras tied for the most
money earned from just the prize money (not including bonus).   Chang
earned a million US dollars last year and this year, and I think made the
semis the year before.   Sampras won two million in 1990, and made the
semis this year.

    As a side note, it seems that Stich's English is quite good.   I first
noticed it when he won Wimbledon, but he seems even better now, speaking
almost accentless English (except that he pronounces Stefan's name more like
Schtefan).  A little of a British accent, in fact.   I'm not sure why
he sounds much better than other Germans including Boris Becker and Steffi
Graf.

--
Charles Lin
clin@eng.umd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: shun@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (shun.cheung)
Subject: Re: Grand Slam cup - choice of surface
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:07:47 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.043259.11997@cbis.ece.drexel.edu> arijeet@lorelei.ece.drexel.edu (Arijit Das) writes:
>In article <1992Dec15.213347.28570@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> shun@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (shun.cheung) writes:
>>
>>Yeah, from now on, the Grand Slam cup should be played outdoors
>>on some grass court on the Alps near Munich in December. :-)
>
>Actually my original intent of bringing up the topic of a fair surface 
>for players from different surfaces is because we do have the most control
>of the nature of synthetic surfaces (carpet), so why can't reserarch by 
>chemists (or scientists in general) produce a surface that would not
>be too unfair to players from any type of playing surface. This surface 
>would negate some of the plus from a player on carpet but would 
>add some to a clay court player. It would also have some of the uneven 
>bounce of grass and let an volleyer do his/her thing.

I understand that, but I thought the choice of carpet was obvious.
Think about this, the Grand Slam Cup has to be played after all
four Grand Slams, and the only convenient time for all the top
players is at year end because the schedule is very packed already.
In winter, indoors is the logical choice unless we go to the southern
hemisphere. As far as surface is concerned, the Grand Slam Cup is
essentially the extension of the indoor carpet season. Think about
what type of complaints the players will make if they have to switch
to, say, clay all of a sudden for just one tournament. The claim
that the Germans pick carpet to favor Becker and Stich doesn't make
sense. The Grand Slam Cup started in 1990 when Stich was still pretty
much an unknown, and Becker hasn't even played the Grand Slam Cup once.
-- 
-- Shun Cheung,    electronic: shun.cheung@att.com    voice: (908) 615-5135
     AT&T, 480 Red Hill Road, Middletown, NJ,  07748  USA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: solodov@monterey1.cs.wisc.edu (Mikhail V. Solodov)
Subject: Re: Monica's Prime??
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:37:57 GMT

>In article <kleung.2nfh@terapin.com>, kleung@terapin.com (Keith Leung) writes:
>
>|>     Steffi Graf!  I think she is going for number 1 spot.  She looks like she
>|> is playing better then her 90-91 year.  
>|> 
>|>     Monica Seles, I feel she is going to lose her number 1 spot around mid next
>|> year, or even earlier.  Why?  I think people know her game now, and know
>|> how to play her more effectivly.
>|> 
>|>    What do you think?
>|> 
>|> ---
>|> Kleung@terapin.com
>|>                                                        Keith Leung
>|>                                                                ---
    
    If other players did learn somebody's game - this is the game of Graf.
I honestly don't see any way for her to climb back to #1.
    As for Minica, the only consistently effective trick against her
is a drop short or whatever will force her to go to the net. One
can win some points this way, but this doesn't seem to be enough to win 
the match.
Michael.
From: jpt@telecaster.think.com (James P. Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Re: BACKSPIN & SLICE
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:00:28
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
	<1gqmthINN5nq@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: telecaster.think.com
In-reply-to: dpc2@po.CWRU.Edu's message of 17 Dec 1992 20:11:29 GMT

In article <1gqmthINN5nq@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> dpc2@po.CWRU.Edu (David P. Caldwell) writes:


   In a previous article, groy@nlm.nih.gov () says:

   >
   >Could anyone please explain me the difference between a backspin and a slice
   >shot, and also, how and when to execute these shots effectively...
   >Thanks....
   >

	Normally, these two terms are used synonymously in tennis.  Both refer
   to an underspin shot.  The exception is on the serve, where "slice" is used
   to refer to sidespin.  "Chip" is another word used (unambiguously) to refer
   to underspin only.



	When?  Guess I got to that earlier; many advocate its use for approach
   shots; it is of obvious utility when out of position (i.e., when topspin is
   nearly impossible); it can be effective for service returns when you feel
   that the server is too talented to pummel his serve with topspin.  When you
   have a truly effective slice, usually it is more consistent (particularly
   in terms of depth) than your topspin shot, so it has a place in your
   arsenal.  It is nearly impossible to hit effective passing shots with underspin.

Good discussion.  The sliced approach works much better on grass than it
does on any other surface.  Well executed one can hit an almost no speed
approach [that gives you plenty of time to get to net] that doesn't get
more than several inches off the ground.  Rosewall used it very effectively
off of his backhand all during his career.  [Note: during his amateur
career three of the grand slams were on grass.]  Ash used it very
effectively when he won Wimbledon.

The underspin motion is close to the same motion that one uses to hit drop
shots. There is less carry after the bounce with an underspun ball.  Also,
it easier to take pace off of the ball.

Something that I have found over the years playing under bad wind
conditions is that you can get more depth hitting into the wind with
underspin.  Hit topspin with the wind and underspin into the wind.

jim taylor Thinking Machines Corp  Cambridge MA
From: solodov@monterey1.cs.wisc.edu (Mikhail V. Solodov)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Re: grunting rule
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:10:58 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.

In article <1992Dec16.130614.90943@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> gaf5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Gail A. Fullman) writes:
>The grunting, or in Monica's case, the two-toned high pitch squeal, disguises
>the sound the ball makes coming off the racquet.  Many players listen for that
>sound to know how hard the ball was hit.  That was Martina's problem with one
>of Seles shots this year.  Monica hit a drop shot, but because Martina
>couldn't hear the sound of the ball off the racquet because of Monica's
>squeal, Martina thought the ball was harder hit than it actually was.  Since
>Monica's squeal is the same volume not matter how hard she hits the ball
>(unlike grunters who get louder only when the ball is hit harder), it does
>distract her opponent.
>
>Monica seems to be trying to get it under control.
>  
>-- 
     Actually this is interesting. I've heard this opinion on TV,
but I didn't take it seriously. I thought of it rather as of another
reporter's speculation. I think I rely more on the motion of the opponent
to tell how hard he hits the ball , what is the spin, etc.
Of course, I've never played against somebody as loud as Monica,
but somehow I find it difficult to imagine that one can't tell how
hard the ball is coming at him.
     What do other tennis players think ?
Michael.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: mirsip@risky.ecs.umass.edu (Ivan Popstefanija)
Subject: Re: Monica's Prime??
Organization: University of Massachusets, Amherst
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:42:11 GMT

In article <kleung.2nfh@terapin.com>, kleung@terapin.com (Keith Leung) writes:

|>     Steffi Graf!  I think she is going for number 1 spot.  She looks like she
|> is playing better then her 90-91 year.  
|> 
|>     Monica Seles, I feel she is going to lose her number 1 spot around mid next
|> year, or even earlier.  Why?  I think people know her game now, and know
|> how to play her more effectivly.
|> 
|>    What do you think?
|> 
|> ---
|> Kleung@terapin.com
|>                                                        Keith Leung
|>                                                                ---


  The only way Monica could lose her # ONE spot is to stop paying the prize money and make
tennis amature sport! Which means NEVER! 

 Ivan Popstefanija
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: htilney@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: grunting rule
Organization: Clark University
Date: 13 DEC 92 01:34:23 GMT

There have been plenty of players before Seles who have grunted during
matches. I wonder why it's become a bigger concern now.

HWT
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: bonacci@ecf.toronto.edu (BONACCI John)
Subject: Re: group
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 03:08:49 GMT

shun@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (shun.cheung) writes:
>> kleng@terapin.com (Keith Leung) writes:
>>
>>      What do you guys think of alt.sports.tennis.scores?  Sometimes I just
>>want to see the scores of the tournaments, and don't have time for comments.
>
>Why do we need a separate group just for scores? Except during
>Grand Slam tournaments, we rarely get more than a few (two or three) 
>articles for scores per day.  [...]

And besides, one of our regular posters (in fact a trusty *scores* poster)
just went through the effort of polling the readership on this issue and
found strong consensus for leaving things as they are.  Sorry if you missed
it.  It seems most (myself included) agree with Shun that traffic is not
large (usu. 10 posts/day).

Most posts that contain scores have keywords like "results" or "scores"
in the header, so you can achieve your desired result by leaning on your
newsreader.

Cheers.
--
JB
"M or W?"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: shun@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (shun.cheung)
Subject: Re: Grand Slam cup - choice of surface
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:33:47 GMT

>>>since that's what most surfaces indoors are.   In addition, they probably
>>>want to favor their own players, namely Stich and Becker who are more
>>>proficient fast court players.   

>>>    Name the top players, and many of them are fast court players.   So,
>>>it might stand to reason that they choose a fast court to accomadate these
>>>players.

>>No offense but by your reasoning players who do well in Wimbeldon (grass)
>>and French (clay) should not be invited to the Grand Slam cup.

>Why shouldn't players that do well in Wimbledon be invited to  the Grand
>Slam cup.  Grass is the fastest.

Yeah, from now on, the Grand Slam cup should be played outdoors
on some grass court on the Alps near Munich in December. :-)
-- 
-- Shun Cheung,    electronic: shun.cheung@att.com    voice: (908) 615-5135
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: shun@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (shun.cheung)
Subject: Re: Monica's Prime??
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:57:54 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.203757.11550@cs.wisc.edu> solodov@monterey1.cs.wisc.edu (Mikhail V. Solodov) writes:
>    
>    If other players did learn somebody's game - this is the game of Graf.
>I honestly don't see any way for her to climb back to #1.

Graf has been trying to improve her game, but it is more like two stepss
forward and one step backward. What really prevents her from getting
better results, IMO, is her shoulder injury. It seems to be a permanent
problem that will re-appear once in a while.

>    As for Minica, the only consistently effective trick against her
>is a drop short or whatever will force her to go to the net. One
>can win some points this way, but this doesn't seem to be enough to win 
>the match.

There are a number of ways to beat Seles. Capriati beats her by
matching power with power. Of course, Capriati simply doesn't have
the consistency and accuracy to achieve that more than just once in
a while. If you watch the Seles vs. Novotna match at the VS Championship,
the low-bounce slice on fast surfaces especially to Seles' forehand side
gives her lots of trouble. Seles needs the high bounce to play her
two-handed ground strokes effectively. That was also the main reason
why Seles lost so badly to Graf at Wimbledon. Of course, not too many
players can exploit these weaknesses on any consistent bases at this
point, but it is a matter of time that Seles' problem will appear.
Remember just a few years ago Graf appeared to be so invincible and
mentally tough?
-- 
-- Shun Cheung,    electronic: shun.cheung@att.com    voice: (908) 615-5135
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: marmoset@mondo.engin.umich.edu (Dave Walker)
Subject: Re: grunting rule
Organization: U of Michigan Computer Aided Engineering Network
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 13:41:51 GMT

In article <13DEC92.01342377@vax.clarku.edu> htilney@vax.clarku.edu writes:
>There have been plenty of players before Seles who have grunted during
>matches. I wonder why it's become a bigger concern now.
>

Going along these lines, has anyone else noticed how much noise
McEnroe is making on the court these days?  I wonder if there's
a double-standard at work here.

| Dave Walker, Detroit Art Services (DAS)                                |
|                                          "I don't read, I just guess"  |
| marmoset@mondo.engin.umich.edu       -Happy Mondays, "Wrote For Luck"  |
|                                                                        |
| President, Sluggin' Fer Monica Fan Club                                |
From: dpc2@po.CWRU.Edu (David P. Caldwell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
Subject: Re: BACKSPIN & SLICE
Date: 17 Dec 1992 20:11:29 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: dpc2@po.CWRU.Edu (David P. Caldwell)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, groy@nlm.nih.gov () says:

>
>Could anyone please explain me the difference between a backspin and a slice
>shot, and also, how and when to execute these shots effectively...
>Thanks....
>

     Normally, these two terms are used synonymously in tennis.  Both refer
to an underspin shot.  The exception is on the serve, where "slice" is used
to refer to sidespin.  "Chip" is another word used (unambiguously) to refer
to underspin only.

     How to execute effectively?  Geez, that would take forever, but the
most important starting point is to hit THROUGH the ball.  Do not "chop"
down with the racquet; it will lead to disaster.  By opening the racquet
face slightly before contact (i.e., turning the side of the racquet you are
hitting with somewhat skyward), you will naturally impart underspin.  You
must shift your weight forward to have an effective, *consistent*, slice. 
Many people advocate using slice particularly for approach shots, because
the ball then stays lower due to its low trajectory.  I'm not sure I buy
this, however.

     When?  Guess I got to that earlier; many advocate its use for approach
shots; it is of obvious utility when out of position (i.e., when topspin is
nearly impossible); it can be effective for service returns when you feel
that the server is too talented to pummel his serve with topspin.  When you
have a truly effective slice, usually it is more consistent (particularly
in terms of depth) than your topspin shot, so it has a place in your
arsenal.  It is nearly impossible to hit effective passing shots with underspin.

...Babbitt 
-- 
David Caldwell (Babbitt on IRC)  E-mail:  CALDWELL@CWBIO.BIOC.CWRU.EDU)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis
From: clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin)
Subject: Re: ESPN tennis
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 20:38:30 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Maryversity von Uniland, College Park
Originator: clin@state.eng.umd.edu


In article <1992Dec14.153029.1298@research.nj.nec.com>, tim@research.nj.nec.com (Tim Van Der Avoird) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.025202.5503@eng.umd.edu> clin@eng.umd.edu (Charles Lin) writes:
>
>>    As a side note, it seems that Stich's English is quite good.   I first
>>noticed it when he won Wimbledon, but he seems even better now, speaking
>>almost accentless English (except that he pronounces Stefan's name more like
>>Schtefan).
>
>Do you really think that people in Sweden pronounce the name "Stefan
>Edberg" the way Americans do...? Stop dreaming... And what about the
>way the people at ESPN pronounce "Michael Stich"...?!
>

    It's true taht Americans aren't going to pronounce it correctly, but
for similar reasons, we might not expect Germans to pronounce it correctly
either.   It just sounded more German.   I would think that Stich would
pronounce Stefan's name like he would pronounce Steffi's name, which may
not be the way a Swede would pronounce the name.

   As far as Stich having a slight British accent, I should have mentioned
that I would have suspected that would be so.   That is, if there was some
"English" accent he would most likely emulate, it's going to be British.

--
Charles Lin
clin@eng.umd.edu

Newsgroups: rec.sport.tennis