HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans)
Subject: Re: books to avoid
Organization: Cicely Public Access UNIX, Cicely, AK
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 02:19:43 GMT


>>Feminism and man-hating two different things.  Period.  If they are not,
>>then by your definition, a man can not be an ultra-ultra-ultra feminist.
>>Obviously they can, and are.
>
>Well, by this definition, Z. Budapest is not a feminist.  I wonder how she would
>like to be told that.  Coni, you are imposing *your* idea of feminism on all
>of feminism.  WenD made it very clear that sie was not referring to all of 

Unless I'm mistaken, she just said that feminism and man-hating can be 
separated. She never said the two couldn't cohabit in the same person. Ergo,
Z.Budapest can = feminist AND = man-hater, but one doesn't necessarily entail
the other. :->

Marty

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Another beer, and then he eyes                 marty@world.std.com
The barmaid's legs and waist and thighs.        Marty Hale-Evans
'Needs to lose some weight,' he grunts,         89 Mass. Ave., Suite 199
'But just the same, I'd fuck her once.'         Boston, MA  02115
He orders pizza, buys a round,              M    @    *    O    %    8    U
Gains an appetizing pound."                \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/
From:  (Michael Snider)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Little Boxes (Was Re: another poem)
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:41:30 GMT
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Organization: BNR

In article <Bv703E.6H5@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A.
Davis-Howe) wrote:
 
> "Little Boxes" was written by Malvina Reynolds.  It is (c)1962.  The words and
> chords are in _Rise Up Singing_, a songbook with over 1200 songs.  
> 
> 

And here are the words, from that excellent compilation:

Little boxes on the hillside, little boxes made of ticky tacky
Little boxes, little boxes, little boxes all the same
There's a green one & a pink one & a blue one & a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky tacky & they all look just the same

And the people in the boxes all went to the university
Where they were put in boxes and they came out all the same
And there's doctors & lawyers & business executives
And they're all made out of ticky tacky & they all look just the same

And they all play on the golf course & drink their martinis dry
And they all have pretty children & the children go to school
And the children go to summer camp & then to the university
Where they are put in boxes and they come out all the same

And the boys go into business & marry & raise a family
In boxes made of ticky tacky and they all look just the same
There's a green one & a pink one & a blue one & a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky tacky & they all look just the same



Malvina Reynolds wrote many excellent and subversive songs--for example 
(from the same book) God Bless the Grass, The Faucets are Dripping, No 
Hole in My Head, What HAve They Done to the Rain, We Don't Need the Men...


>               Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
>                                Br'anArthur
> 
> Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)


> 
> ******************************************************************************
> Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
> it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
>                                    --Jon Jay Obermark

Thanks for getting me to look that up.  Blessings to all.

***** Michael Snider ********** alas, no email, so reply by post ******

Talk of fame, honor, pleasure, wealth, all are dirt compared with
affection.
                                                   Charles Darwin          

Critics quarrel with other critics. With an artist, no sane man quarrels.  

                                                   George Santayana        

                      
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Subject: Re: the chocolate chip cookie that ate Cleveland  
Reply-To: boylan@ljohub.enet.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:37:53 GMT


In article <2ACBB64F.2220@news.service.uci.edu>, cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu
(Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

> In article <17755@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie) writes:
> >In article <1992Sep30.224403.5325@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan) writes:
> >> 
> >> Which reminds me of the recipe in one of my all-time favorite books,
> >> "Chocolate, The Consuming Passion", by (oh, dear, now I can't remember
> >> her name . . . the artist who did all the Recycled Paper Products
> >> greeting cards).  The recipe is for _A_ chocolate-chip cookie.  It's
> >> simply the classic Toll-House recipe with the additional instructions:
> 
> Sounds like Sandra Boynton. 

Thank you, Janis - it certainly IS Sandra Boynton.  My head wasn't working
the other day!

> Of course, you ARE aware of who the net Bitch Goddess of Dark Choclate
> is, now aren't you . . . ?
> 
> I'll be expecting a Hershey's Tithe in the mail. 
> 
> Blessings,
> Janis 


Uh-oh . . . does this mean I owe you a tribute, too?  :-)

And have you ever tried the Perugina Dark Chocolate with Vanilla?  Yum!!

				- - Steve

				boylan@ljohub.enet.dec.com
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: The Serpent
Distribution: world
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 00:03:31 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <BvnzAs.5GG@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu writes:

 > Well, I'm going to refute any claim that there is one serpent myth, or that it
 > originates in one locale.  Most cultures in the world have myths about
 > serpents, but the myths are very varied--not only in content, but in general
 > attitude toward serpents.

Unfortunately you haven't refuted anything, only said you were going
to. I find this disappointing given the tone of your opening remark,
Brian, which then dissolved into nothingness.

I myself have problems with the idea of localised origin, but that is
not an issue here. Nor does it interest that serpent myths are varied;
of course they are, and you have meerely restated the obvious.

The discussion has been focussing on the characteristics of the beast
which provide a common thread throughout all the various myths, and
how different cultures have responded to those characteristics. You
are the first to imply that people do not recognise the singularity of
the serpent character everywhere in the world.

Would you like to proceed with your refutation, since I am very
interested indeed to know what you have to say.

Gil

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Samhain at Janis's . . .
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:18:33 GMT
Reply-To: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Organization: Ailanthus Project

law10@po.CWRU.Edu (Lorrie A. Wood) writes:

>
>    Lovely!  I'm still a net.newbie, but I know I love the idea. But:
>
>    1) Where do you live?
>    2) Is someone driving through Clevelabd that could pick up me-my ro
> (Jessica McGeary)?
>    3) Am I even invited (or her), seeing as we're not *real* bona fide
> pagans?
>
hey, i'll be doing samhain in portland maine.  you all ahev more money
than i do - you come here!  *grin*  especially janis!  and it's much
closer to cleveland, too...

                                             -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                    ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
Desire.  The weight of.  The weight of our              ________
desire.  Then laugh, cry, but laugh             Silence \      / Action
more than you cry, and when you hold               =     \    /    =
the world in your hands, love Her.               Death    \  /    Life
                     - Alma Luz Villanueva                 \/
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Who do you kneel to when you pray?
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:47:31 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes:

: gave yourself time to consider things, then you wouldn't have
: said the things you regret.  Consciously, you wouldn't want to
: hurt your opponent.  Sub-consciously, though, you're really angry
: and you *do* want to hurt them.
: 
: Like this, cursing is done "off-the-cuff."  You don't consider
: whether or not to curse, you just do it.
: 
: Blessings -- may your subconscious never direct you beyond what
: you consciously desire!

I guess it depends on when you "curse". I do so when I am displeased
with something - like when I foolishly hit myself on the thumb with
a hammer. I do not curse when I am angry. So, to me, there is nothing
serious in a curse - the subconscious does not have the chance to
act.

Bill
From: c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: another poem
Date: 25 Sep 92 18:34:26 GMT
Organization: Monmouth College, W. Long Branch, N.J.  07764

In article <1992Sep25.050737.22605@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes:
>I could
>never understand why he would want an airhaid, or how he could even
>*tolerate* one!

	I dunno about intentionally seeking out an airhead, but just because
somebody is "intelectually challenged" and been hit over the head with
"traditional famile values" until she believes them doesn't mean she can't
really care about people, and really want to help those who are "happiness
challenged".  And often enough for me just somebody WANTING to help, does.

|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
|o| Of Course I speak  |      michael carson       | Carpe Diem, Man.        |o|
|o|  only for myself.  | c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu |                -me      |o|
|o| Would YOU let me   +---------------------------+-------------------------|o|
|o|  speak for you?!?  |      All flames to: nobody@moncol.monmouth.edu      |o|
|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun)
Subject: Re: Halloween
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 14:46:12 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago IL
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

>>wrchurch@uwovax.uwo.ca writes:
: Hello,
: For several year now I've been researching the significance of that most
: bizzare time of the year -- Halloween.<<

: Richard Church<<

See alt.sabaean for a fairly complete research on the origins, meaning and traditions of Halloween.

Eshin-Fun
From: ses2@po.CWRU.Edu (S. E. Stansfield)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Christian Census
Date: 27 Sep 1992 22:18:05 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ses2@po.CWRU.Edu (S. E. Stansfield)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


There is a story that goes around the SCA, here in CLeveland.  It occured
at an old SCA house in the cwru area, called asgard.  It seems that one of
the people in the house was taking apart a side of beef when the JW came to
the door.  When he answered the door he was covered with blood and carrying
a 14 inch butcher's knife.  Somebody yelled from the back of the house "do
you have the sacrifice ready, yet?"  The JWs RAN from the house.

-- 
All propositions are true in some sense, false in some sense and
meaningless in some sense.  
                               --Hagbard Celine H.M. S.H.
<this is a signature virus, to spread it, just copy into your sig-file>
From: markbr@radian.uucp (markbr)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Who do you kneel to when you pray?
Summary: bravo!
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:45:18 GMT
Organization: Radian Cormp.

In article <2AC24859.27476@news.service.uci.edu>, cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
> I had to respond to this finally.
> 
> I kneel to NO ONE when I pray.  I do not pray to ANYTHING, and I kneel
> before NOTHING.
> 
> My goddess is a construct inside my own head, and I consider others to
> be metaphors.  What good is kneeling before a metaphor?  I have better
> ways to realize my goddess than praying.  I keep myself in as good
> fettle for doing good deeds as possible, and I try to act my best in a
> given situation.  I try to help people and teach them, but goddess knows
> I lose my patience with the dense sometimes, and about certain
> predictable things.
> 
> Blessings,
> Janis  
> 
Bravo, Janis! When I invoke the Goddess, and the God, I'm not *worshipping*.
Do we worship our parents? Respect (hopefully, if they are worthy), definitely.
But pray? As in, "oh, I'm a worthless worm, forgive me?", or "oh, I'm a
worthless worm, but I'm *your* worthless worm, and *they* were *mean* to me,
so go rip them limb from limb!"?

That actually leads to one of the problems I have with all these funnyment-
alists, with their "Jesus is Lord" crap: they *sure* don't sound like
"good Americans" to me. I mean, I thought we *believed* in the Constitution,
and democracy, and that we had the right to run our own lives. What is this
worshipping a God-King? I thought divine kingship went out with the French
Revolution.

	mark (who is real upset, since with Perot in the race, they
	say Bush & Clinton are in a dead heat, and who doesn't think
	Perot can win, which means Bush is too damn close)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman)
Subject: Re: men's spirituality (was Re: New Pagans and Reading)
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 23:39:29 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalno.fnal.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <wDsXRB2w165w@eagles.uucp>, ymir@eagles.uucp (Ymir Thunarsson) 
writes:
> well stated and has led to much misunderstanding and hard feelings. We can
> all still overcome such animosity and I, at least will try to do so. Anyone
> wish to join me?!!!

I, for one, have made my peace with Hulda as far as I know.


> 
>> Ah yes, the "True" Asutra. Where have I heard that before? Odin is mysterious
>> No more so than many other gods.
>>                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Here I must differ with you. He is far and away the most mysterious of any of
> the Aesir or Vanir. He is also darker in aspect. He is, however, no more 
> mysterious than SOME of the gods of other traditions and religions.
                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I believe that you and Bill agree on this one, although you are wording it
differently.

-- 
Daniel B. Holzman                    | Eight Words the Witch's Rede Fufill:
HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET                  | An It Harm None, Do What You Will
HOLZMAN@FNALC.FNAL.GOV.INTERNET      |
                                     | All Acts of Love and Pleasure are
Love doesn't subtract,               | Her Rituals
   it multiplies    - Heinlein       |
                                     | Speak the Word.
Disclaimer:  Fermilab's far too large to have an opinion, let alone mine.
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 22:15:07 -0400 
From: Kendrick Kerwin Chua <kendrick+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: righteous anger

>A friend and I were discussing religion the other day.  She's Christian but is
>very cool.  She said that she couldn't really begin to love and trust God 
>until she was able to get angry with Him.  That was also my spiritual 
>breakthrough.  I'd been in therapy for about a year and was finally realizing
>how little nurturing my parents gave me.  I got really pissed off at Goddess/
>God and cussed her/him out for a few days.  And it was when I realized that
>Goddess/God could understand my anger and love me because of it that I
>realized how much I love Goddess/God and get from Her/Him/Them.  It's not
>as if they'll promise me a fair life or replace my parents for me... it's too
>late for that.  But getting angry at the Deity(s) was a major step in my 
>self-healing process.
> 
>Has anyone here had similar experience?
> 
>Do you find this blasphemous?  (I ask out of curiosity; I won't change my mind
>... it's not at all blasphemous for me.)
> 
> 
> 
>-- 
>Barclay Elizabeth Blanchard    barclay@rail9000@gatech.edu

Depends on which gods you're talking about.  With the sumerian gods,
it's very hard to not be angry at them at any given time, since
according to the mythology all of them have screwed up so much for so
long (like the Greek gods, only Sumerian gods can't admit they're
wrong!).  
One in particular that I've been angry with is Ishtar, the mother
goddess, who is often portrayed as old, rotten, and corrupt as often as
she is young beautiful and fertile.  Truth is she can be either, but
when you read the gilgamesh epics it's annoying how human she acts.


Kendrick Kerwin Chua

kc3u+@andrew.cmu.edu    or
kendrick+@CMU.EDU

Cthulhu for President, 1992!
From: darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Pagan music again (was Re: Mysterious Ways)
Date: 6 Oct 92 15:17:35 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of California, Davis

In article <2ACF4949.3733@news.service.uci.edu>, cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
> 
> If you want REALLY unbelievable ritual music, or just stuff to blow your
> mind, get a Nonesuch catalogue (they put out really neat stuff) and get
> anything that has to do with (ready?) Bulgarian women's choir.  The
> sound they make cannot be duplicated anywhere else in the world, and it
> will jerk you right off your feet.  You will (I did) stare at the
> speaker, unable to believe that that incredible, mesmerizing sounds is
> being produced by human voices.  It WILL make your jaw hang.
> 
> Blessings,
> Janis 

Yes, this is amazing stuff!  If you listen closely to the tone quality of
the voices you can hear that what they're doing is basically imitating the
timbre (sound quality) of the "gayda" - the Bulgarian bagpipe. 

Blessings,

Richard
(Tuneweaver)
From: liam@alehaus.uucp (liam)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Scents
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 92 09:40:36 CDT
Organization: The Alehaus, a Brewer's Witch affiliate, alehaus@brewich.hou.tx.us

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

> In article <1992Sep30.225321.4081@u.washington.edu> rjb@milton.u.washington.e
> >Dittany is also known as Cretan oregano.  It makes a good spaghetti
> >sauce, with the appropriate other ingredients to taste...
> 
> Is this spice readily available?  As the name I prefer to use for the
> goddess concept is Diktynna (the old Cretan mountain mother of Mount
> Dikte), this spice would be of great value to me. 

Last time I checked, it was availible both live and dried through herbal 
shops and some nurseries, you might also try somewhere like Whole foods 
(natural food stores) as they usualy have a fair selection of herbs and 
spices.
> 
> >Dictamnus alba is the botanical name usually used, but I've never
> >actually looked it up to find out if it's the correct one.  My
> >memory insists that's the way it's usually written, but it's
> >if so it's either a grammatical oddity or "alba" isn't an adjective.
> 
> Is the spice white? 

The botanical name I have listed for it is Dictamus origanoides.
I have no reference as to the color when dried but live it is sort of a 
graish green and very pretty.

> 
> Blessings,
> Janis 

                                Blessed Be,
                                         Liam

Ps I agree bitch is to strong a word, helraiser definately in the sense 
of one who says what they feel without mincing words. But I prefer to 
think of you as being more of a thought provoker and a cause of much 
reexamination of the way I view others. In short, a person for which I 
have the utmost respect.

------------------
%A@%n (%W)
Origin: The Alehaus -- Houston, TX -- 
     "Old witches never die....they just move in different circles"
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:10465 alt.magick:5042 alt.astrology:1938
From: cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.magick,alt.astrology
Subject: Re: Old Stars, New Stars  (was Re: HALLOW'EEN)
Date: 2 Oct 92 15:29:07 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Oct2.004729.22664@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek) writes:
>eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun) writes:

>>In the year 2170 B.C. is the date at which the Pleiades really opened the
>>spring season by their midnight culmination.

>In which case, the culmination of the Pleiades is now about two months out of
>synch with spring.  My point stands; stellar relationships with the seasons
>that worked for the ancients won't work today.

As far as I know Hindu astrologers are the only ones who use stellar
relationships in natal astrology. Western astrological practice is
concerned with the relationship of the planets with the tropical
zodiac, which has nothing to do the with positions of any stars, being
enitrely a local solar system phenomenon.

>And once upon a time astrologers actually made observations and based their
>divinations on stellar and planetary positions.  This practice declined,
>and today they use data that is about two thousand years out of date;

Ptolemy's "Tetrabiblos", written 2,000 years ago, attempted to
summarise astrology as practised at that time. Translations are still
in print today, available from your local astrological bookseller. If
you consult one you will find that 2,000 years ago astrologers were
concerned with the relationships of the planets to the _tropical_
zodiac, knew about the precesssion of the tropical zodiac through the
sidereal zodiac, and used that for other purposes.

I am afraid that it is your understanding of astrology that is more
than 2,000 years out of date.

>my
>point was that it is possible for certain aspects of astrology to become
>enshrined in tradition and then left behind by the equinox precession.

You are absolutely right. Astrology did once make this error. But it
noticed and corrected this error more than 2,000 years ago.
-- 
Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205
From: usr77@pil.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: my new tagline...
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 01:47:04 PDT

Re: Re: more Campus Crusade for Christ bullshit
By: mephron #0 @tronsbox.xei.com (Mephron) USEnet      

Mephron...
                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== mea saurus, mea saurus, mea maximus saurus! ====== 93 ======
(slogan contributed by Jessica McGeary) There are no fnords in this sig file.
Mail to me should be sent to:       |   autoreply to address I posted this
alizard@tweekco.uucp                |   from only if you want to wait a
boo!tweekco!alizard@PacBell.COM     |   solstice or two for my answer.
!uunet!pacbell!boo!tweekco!alizard  |                Kallisti!


                       (final version of sig file. Passed Beta test 9/27/92)
From: liam@alehaus.uucp (liam)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: a nice experience last night
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 92 16:04:02 CDT
Organization: The Alehaus, a Brewer's Witch affiliate, alehaus@brewich.hou.tx.us


> >
> >birthdate 11/18/63 one somethign in the afternoon, wilmington
> >delaware, aries rising, moon, mercury, venus, mars in sagittarius (a
> >good chart for having a bad temper *grin*)
> >
> >so, what's everybody else's?  i'd been meaning to ask...
> >
> >                                             -ailsa
> 

 My info is: born 2/14/69 6:42pm cdt in Houston, tx  (by pure accident)
have fun with it as I don't know a thing about what to do with the stats. 
from there.
                                        Blessed Be,
                                                 Liam

------------------
%A@%n (%W)
Origin: The Alehaus -- Houston, TX -- 
     "Old witches never die....they just move in different circles"
Newsgroups: alt.pagan