HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Robert_Lynch@edtng.Kenosha.WI.US (Robert Lynch)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re:Fionavar Tapestry
Distribution: world
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:36:51 CST
Organization: Electric Dreams: The Next Generation BBS

In a message dated Wed 16 Dec 92 14:39, Goodin@fraser.sfu.ca (charles Frede
wrote:

 GF>  Try his "Fionavar Tapestry"(sp?) (the longest road is the first one,
 GF> I
 GF> think)  I thought it was a lot better than Tigana.  I find his stuff
 GF> hard to
 GF> get into, I'm usually bored for the first 2 or 3 chapters, but it is
 GF> all worth
 GF> it in the end.  Very powerful stuff
>-- 

     The first book was called the Summer Tree, the second, The Wandering
Fire and the third, The Darkest Road.
     I agree, powerful stuff. 

 GF> Upchuk McNuggets
 GF> goodin@fraser.sfu.ca

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

Robert Lynch@EDTNG.Kenosha.WI.US
From: margot@disuns2.epfl.ch (Joel Margot)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Lost novels by Philip K. Dick (was: Re: Kim Stanley Robinson)
Date: 14 Dec 92 16:37:41 GMT
Reply-To: margot@disuns2.epfl.ch (Joel Margot)
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne

In article <1992Dec5.204535.12145@eff.org> write@eff.org (Glen Cox) writes:
>First, there were never any "lost" PKD manuscripts.  The posthumous novels
>were among Dick's papers at the Univ. of Calif. Berkley (I think).  Dick
>knew exactly where each novel was; Paul Williams, Dick's literary executor,
>knew exactly where to get them from to have them published.
>
>As such, Stan had access to the posthumous novels (_In Milton Lumky Territory_,
>_Humpty Dumpty in Oakland_, _Mary and the Giant_, _Puttering About in a
>Small Land_, _The Broken Bubble_, and _The Man Whose Teeth Were All Exactly
>Alike_) when he wrote his thesis (UMI Research Press, Ann Arbor, Michigan,
>Studies in Speculative Fiction #9, 1984).

I just want to add a precision. There actually are four writings, that we can
qualify as novels, even if they are of Phil Dick's childhood, that are *LOST*.

This is a fact. So sorry Glen; I surely agree with all the title you quote:
those are not lost and even published in several languages already. I am 
talking of "Return to Liliput", "A Time for George Stavros", "Pilgrim on the
Hill" and "Nicholas and the Higs". As a reference, I would suggest Paul
Williams' "The Worlds of Philip K. Dick".

I would also like to add another precision regarding Michael Sumbera's post.
The writings Michael refers to in his post as still being unpublished are
"Gather Yourself Together" and "Voices from the Street". These both novels
are not lost, even if I don't remember on the spot where the manuscript is.

Hope this gives some interesting sides on Dick's work, other than the famous
Blade Runner...

Cordially, 

Joel Margot

PS: If this chat is of some interest to you, there is a Phil Dick mailing
    list on pkd-list@wang.com.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: eliz@ai.mit.edu (Elizabeth Willey)
Subject: Re: SF for juveniles
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:22:36 GMT

Mark L. Stackpole wrote:

   >  _Starship Troopers_ was meant to be part of the series (published by
   >  Scribners from 1947-58) but the publisher blew their collective tops when
   >  the manuscript was turned in ("Flogging, as a positive social force, in a
   >  children's book!?"), so it was published as a grown-up novel.

How interesting.  Perhaps none of the publishers had ever seen _Two
Years Before the Mast_, which Reader's Digest published in their
condensed children's-books anthology, and which (if I recall aright)
has several disciplinary floggings.

Please, let us not start a "flogging in literature" thread here,
although I could also mention that D'Artagnan notices that Aramis has
a "cord of discipline" on the wall in his inn-room where Aramis is
preparing his thesis (having fallen by the wayside on the great errand
to the Duke of Buckingham and not having heard from the Marquise de
Chevreuse in too long), and Aramis is unable to accompany D'Artagnan
back to Paris because he is weakened by his over-vigorous use of the
thing on himself.  But I won't.



Elizabeth Willey
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper)
Subject: Re: JAMES MORROW: The Wine of Violence
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:14:08 GMT
Keywords: morrow

In article <1992Dec14.151720.22585@bnr.ca> grey@bnr.ca (grey) writes:
> I'm a big fan of James Morrow, author of This is the Way the World Ends,
> Only Begotten Daughter, and City of Truth.
> 
> The latest of these books (a novella) lists 3 prior publications:
>    The Wine of Violence

Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1981; also the SFBC.

>    The Continent of Lies
Baen, 1984, ISBN  0-671-55969-9, $2.95.

>    Swatting at the Cosmos

Pulphouse, Author's Choice Monthly Issue 8, May 1990, $4.95.

Evelyn C. Leeper  |  +1 908 957 2070  |  att!mtgzy!ecl or  ecl@mtgzy.att.com
--
"God does not play dice with the universe."  --Albert Einstein
"Albert, stop telling God what to do."  --Niels Bohr
From: matt@physics3.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: influential & best fantasy
Date: 11 Dec 92 09:53:55
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory (Theoretical Physics Group)
Reply-To: matt@physics.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics3.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com's message of 10 Dec 92 14:49:12 GMT

In article <1g7ld8INN9ih@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann) writes:

> It's by Walter Miller, but I don't think it is a good example
> of what the first poster is looking for. He/she (can't tell from
> Terry) seems to be looking for fantasy, not SF. There are
> no miracles in A Canticle for Leibowitz.

Unclear; depends on how you interpret the role of the Wandering Jew.
Also, of course, the Church in the book certainly believed that there
were miracles involved, considering that they canonized St. Leibowitz.
--
Matthew Austern                   Just keep yelling until you attract a
(510) 644-2618                    crowd, then a constituency, a movement, a
austern@lbl.bitnet                faction, an army!  If you don't have any
matt@physics.berkeley.edu         solutions, become a part of the problem!
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:53:02 -0500 
From: "Andrew C. Plotkin" <ap1i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: G.G.Kay (was: Writers who get paid too little)
	<1go5onINN21t@agate.berkeley.edu>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.written: 16-Dec-92 Re: Writers who get
paid to.. @garnet.berkeley.edu (2347)

> As for example.  I can't stand Kay.  I tried the first volume of the F.T.
> (which I'd heard people raving about for years) and couldn't get through
> Chapter Two.  Screaming "DERIVATIVE" at the top of my tattered lungs,
> I drop-kicked it into the recycling.  So... Is Kay Real Neat Stuff, or
> is he dreck?  Depends on who you ask.

Also depends on which books you try. 

The Fionavar books and _Tigana_ are very different, actually. IMHO, the
Fionavar Tapestry was both "derivative" *and* "real neat stuff."

I thought _Tigana_ had all the strengths of FT and none of the
weaknesses -- in particular, it is not at *all* derivative. If that was
your only complaint about Kay (and in two chapters of FT, you couldn't
have thought of that many complaints) I would suggest you try it.

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: darknite@camelot.bradley.edu (John S. Novak III)
Subject: Re: The Wheel of Time: Prophecies and Portents (and
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 13 Dec 92 19:59:20 GMT

I suppose this deserves spoiler warnings now...


In <1992Dec13.100311.7842@msc.cornell.edu> hillyard@msc.cornell.edu writes:

>> I must be dense.  Or reading TSR right before finals has dulled
>> my mind.  In either case, who or what is Isam, please?

>As Lan is the son of the last king, Isam is the son of those whose plotting
>brought the destruction of the Malkier.

Ah.  This does ring a bell.
I think I'm going to reread the entire series after finals and
find all the nifty little details I missed before...

>>>Logain
>>>	A halo of gold and blue, signifying glory to come
 
>> From what else I've read in this thread, it seems that other
>> people think that Logain will go to take Callandor again, as

>I don't know about people.  I've mentioned it twice and got no
>input either way.  I guess if I post enough I qualify as people :).

Sorry... :-)
While I was reading, I saved all the Wheel of Time postings to
one huge great file on my account, and then read them as I
finished.  Names got jumbled.

So, how does it feel to be considered plural?

>This is my thinking.  What led me toward the conclusion originally
>is Rand's comment that his trap gets sprung by use of the power.  Perhaps
>it can be foiled by someone who has been gentled.

Certainly has potential.

Also, two more things that have been bothering me:
Lanfear ---> Mierin
Sea Folk --> Atha'an Miere --> People of Lanfear???
Nynaeve al'Meara --> Nynaeve of Lanfear???

The question is, is the root word in question related to Mierin
(which would be Lanfear) or simply to the sea, in which case
Mierin and al'Meara would simply be (originally) coastal or
watery names.

And finally, who or what are the Nym, mentioned during Rand's
visions in Rhuidean?  They were described as a race of large
people with brown skin and grassy hair.  They were (I think)
larger than Ogier, and were associated with them. I got the
impression that the Ogier learned treesinging from the Nym.  I
also had the impression that the Green Man (from EotW) may have
been nothing more than a Nym.  Intriguing-- a race of people so
old and long-forgotten that even the Ogier confuse them with
myths...
--
"I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been
educated sufficiently to reason incorrectly."
		-- Montaigne
John S. Novak, III		darknite@camelot.bradley.edu
From: wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu (Rick Russell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Mass minds (was: Greg Bear Blood Music)
Date: 11 Dec 1992 22:18:08 -0600
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: tamsun.tamu.edu

In article <1gappjINNsms@gap.caltech.edu> ojvind@chagall.cns.caltech.edu (Ojvind Bernander) writes:

>"Mass minds" seem to come in two flavors.
>First, there is the form where a group of people are telepathic
>and can share thoughts and feelings to various degrees.
...

>The second form is when all the little minds give rise to a higher-level
>holistic super-mind that in some sense have a will of its own.
>This seems to be of little use to the individual, since he wouldn't
>"feel" the higher consciousness any more than single neurons in my brain
>"think" or get an advantage from _my_ consciousness.  

Aiiigh! I am the only one here to have read Theodore Sturgeon's classic novel _The Cosmic Rape_?

[ _The Cosmic Rape_ (c) 1958 Theodore Sturgeon. A shorter version ("To
Marry Medusa") appeared in Galaxy SF magazine, 1958. ]

Suffice it to say that in _The Cosmic Rape_, Sturgeon presents a
unified-mind concept which is rather different from all of these.
Sturgeon's mass mind is not a voluntarily telepathic society, nor is
it a monolithic BorgLike (tm) mass mind where all individuality is
lost.

In the following passage, Sturgeon describes a four year old girl who
got lost in the desert only a few hours before the mass-mind
transformation took place.

          Sharon Brevix thought, _I can see all over the 
          world_. And she thought, _They've found me._ 
 
          You're four and you're lost: what bothers you? 
          Hunger, cold, but mostly a sense of 
          disorientation---detachment: not knowing where to 
          go or where "they" all are. Sharon awoke where she 
          had dozed off... rather, where she had slipped so 
          very far over the slippery edge of the 
          forever-dark. It was slippery no longer. She was 
          hungry, she was cold, but _she wasn't lost_. 
 
          Suppose her mother were here---what would she do? 
          _Are you all right?_ Well, she was all right. 
          Nothing broken, no cuts; no encounters with the 
          bestial in any form. Her mother knew that and 
          Sharon knew she knew that. The closeness she felt 
          to her mother and Billy and the other kids wasn't 
          quite as nice as having them there, and being warm 
          and having something to eat. But there were new 
          ways, other ways, that were nicer---nicer than 
          anything she had ever known. Billy now---see how 
          glad he was, how afraid he'd been. How much he 
          cared. It made her feel very good to know that 
          Billy cared so much. It had always been his 
          best-kept secret. 
 
I think that passage speaks for itself.

-- 
#      Rick Russell | TAMU Meteorology | wrr3118@tamsun.tamu.edu       # 
#     "I am Elfy of Atlantis." "I am Jo-Jo of Munchkinland."           #
#     "We are Elfy and Jo-Jo!"                                         #
From: rar@csl.sri.com (Bob Riemenschneider)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Why Heinlein's folk want babies
Date: 17 Dec 92 14:27:42
Organization: Computer Science Lab, SRI International, Menlo Park, CA.
	<1992Dec17.123935.4564@news.yale.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: birch.csl.sri.com
In-reply-to: dcs@neutron.chem.yale.edu's message of Thu, 17 Dec 1992 12:39:35 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.123935.4564@news.yale.edu> dcs@neutron.chem.yale.edu (Dave Schweisguth) writes:

   So, why do Heinlein's folk want colonies?

Only a very small percentage of the human population in Heinlein's
multiverse want to wander off and pioneer.  About the same as in the
real world.  Their reasons for doing so vary.  Just like in the real
world.  So what's the big mystery?

(A fair percentage of Heinlein's lead characters give pioneering a shot,
because Heinlein belived that people who are willing to trade
straightjacketed security for elbow room are, ceteris paribus, superior
to those who aren't.)

                                                        -- rar
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: oz@ursa.sis.yorku.ca (Ozan Yigit)
Subject: Re: Rama Reveiled by A.C. Clarke
Organization: York U. Student Information Systems Project
	<oz.724556011@yorku.ca> <1gosinINN45m@bigboote.WPI.EDU>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:41:37 GMT

Jason John Seaver writes:

   >>I, for one, absolutely refuse to look at the sequels.
   >
   >Same here.

	   Your loss.

Could be. I also skipped "Lila", and anything after the first book of
"Dune". It is said that most writers have ONE great book in them, and
although Clarke may be an exception, I doubt it works for sequels. :-)

oz
----
simulation is better than reality! | electric: oz@sis.yorku.ca
              -Richard W. Hamming  | ph:[416] 736 2100 x 33976
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: guay@fraser.sfu.ca (Tim Guay)
Subject: Literary SF
Summary: Looking for good literary SF
Keywords: Literary SF
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:46:54 GMT

Hi; 

Can anyone recommend any literary SF books/authors? IE: stuff that isn't     
mainstream commercial SF.
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: QX and on green! (was Re: LENSMAN?)
Date: 14 Dec 1992 18:59:56 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec14.120510.1@fnalo.fnal.gov> higgins@fnalo.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes:
>
>It's part of the fun.  From memory, in one of the books a character,
>attempting to express the notion that Clarissa MacDougal is extremely
>attractive, describes her as "a seven-sector callout."

And also, a blinding flash and a deafening report.

Dorothy J. Heydt
UC Berkeley
cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu

Who, if this thread goes on much longer, will yield to temptation and
go dig out the books and read them again.

Disclaimer:  UCB and the Cozzarelli lab are not responsible for my
opinions, and in fact I don't think they know I have any.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu (Eli Brandt)
Subject: Re: Do you buy books because of their cover?
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 05:16:29 GMT

My strategy is to skip the blurbs, start reading the book, and if I
haven't put it down by the time I *really* have to leave the
bookstore, buy it.  You'd think this would restrain my bookbuying to
one per session, but every time I walk into a bookstore I usually
see a book or two I already knew that I wanted, and end up getting
them as well...

	 PGP 2 key by finger or e-mail
   Eli   ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: graham@cs.washington.edu (Stephen Graham)
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists
Keywords: tigana
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 18:10:42 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.015418.23388@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> colin@callisto.pas.rochester.edu (Colin Roald) writes:
>swf@tools3teradata.com (Stan Friesen) writes:
>>Yes.  Kay is now on my (very short) auto-buy list.
>>[Along with David Brin].
>
>I'm suddenly curious--what authors are on other people's "auto-buy" lists?
>Meaning that if you see one of their books and you don't have yet and the 
>money is in your pocket, you buy it--no further questions asked.

Actually, I maintain two auto-buy lists, one for hardback (I'll buy
anything they write, regardless of cost) and one for paperback. Most
of the people on the paperback list  will be considered in hardback,
but may just be noted for later purchase.

Hardback:

Tim Powers
Iain Banks
John Crowley

Paperback:

Douglas Adams
Lois McMaster Bujold
C.J. Cherryh 
Dave Duncan
Robert Forward
Kathryn Kurtz
Larry Niven
Terry Pratchett
Mike Resnick

The hardback list would be longer, but it has to compete with my
history buy-on-sight list, which is much more expensive. :)
-- 
Stephen Graham
graham@cs.washington.edu	 uw-beaver!june!graham
From: dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: New to SF
Date: 13 Dec 92 06:11:08 GMT
Reply-To: dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann)
Organization: University of Arizona

I'm only about 300 articles behind, so this thread is probably dead,
but... oh, well.


In article <HERMIT.92Dec6042803@am.ucsc.edu>, hermit@cats (William R. Ward) writes:
>_Ringworld_ (and the sequel _Ringworld Engineers_) is the story of an
>alien artifact--an artificial ring-shaped structure millions of miles
>across built around a star.  The idea came about as a compromise to a
>Dysan (sp?) Sphere.  _Ringworld_ is a good starting book into the
>"Known Space" universe, which contains the majority of Niven's work.
>It is a good introduction to the various civilizations involved.

I agree.  I think _Ringworld_ was one of the first if not the first
Niven novel I read.  However... hmm -- how to say this without giving
too much away?

_Ringworld Engineers_ builds on several different points of Known
Space history.  For the reader not familiar with these points, some
parts might seem a bit arbitrary, and  certain crucial parts will be
rather cryptic.  Also, part of the fun of RE is watching Niven weave
the previously unrelated threads of Known Space into a connected and
reasonably logical structure.  IMHO, the best thing to do is read
_Ringworld_.  If you like it, go back and read all the other (pre-RE)
stories.  These are:

  _A Gift From Earth_ (novel)
  _Neutron Star_ (short stories)
  _Protector_ (novel)
  _Tales of Known Space (short stories)
  _World of Ptavvs_ (novel)

These give the important background of Known space, and should provide
a sufficient background to understand all the events of RE.  Additionally,
there are

  _All the Myriad Ways_ (short stories -- not all Known Space)
  _A Hole in Space_ (short stories -- not all Known Space)
  _The Long ARM of Gil Hamelton_ (3 novellas)
  _The Patchwork Girl_ (novel)

There's also the _Man-Kzin Wars_ series (other authors' works set in
a specific era of Known space -- quality varies) as well as a few
other short stories scattered here and there.

-- 
Hey, everybody -- somebody said `mattress' to Mr. Lambert!  TWICE!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ngustas@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:53:06 GMT

My auto-buy list:
(in no particular order)
Melanie Rawn
Katherine Kurtz
F.M. Busby
Neil Gaiman
Emma Bull
Clive Cussler
Diana Gabaldon (I keep seeing her books in the SF section, so...)
Guy Gavriel Kay
Connie Willis (she wrote Doomsday Book, right?)
Edward Eager (author of "Half Magic" and "Seven Day Magic")
Anne Rice
Peter David
Diane Duane
Gael Baudino (the "Dragon" trilogy would have killed that had I not 
known they were her first books ever, just re-released so the book company
could make a quick buck...)
There are probably more authors that I'm forgetting and will kick myself
for skipping when I get home...
As always,
Your obedient servant,
Gabrielle de Lioncourt
ngustas@hamp.hampshire.edu
"I like noise 'cause I like waking up the house"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper)
Subject: Lafferty (was Re: Auto-buy lists)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 16:19:04 GMT

In article <ToX9s*RI0@prolix.apana.org.au> dac@prolix.apana.org.au (Andrew Clayton) writes:
> R.A. Lafferty [alas, he's dead]

So far as I know, Lafferty is still alive.  His stuff is being
published by United Mythologies Press, P. O. Box 390 Station A, Weston,
Ontario M9N 3N1, Canada.  The prices are high (C$18 for a short novel,
C$3 for a chapbook) and the proof-reading (at least in the volumes I
saw) abysmal, but you may be interested.

(Also, Broken Mirrors, P. O. Box 473, Cambridge MA 02238, has published
some of his works.)

Evelyn C. Leeper  |  +1 908 957 2070  |  att!mtgzy!ecl or  ecl@mtgzy.att.com
--
"God does not play dice with the universe."  --Albert Einstein
"Albert, stop telling God what to do."  --Niels Bohr
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian)
Subject: Re: Literary SF
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 02:08:02 GMT

Level 7 by Mordecai Roshwald
Limbo, by Bernard Wolfe
Earth Abides, by George Stewart
Several novels by Doris Lessing (but not her overt SF, which I haven't and
can't read)
Island by Aldous Huxley
and any number of other titles that will come to me as soon as I sign off...


--
Crawford Kilian   Communications Department   Capilano College
North Vancouver BC Canada V7J 3H5
Usenet: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca
Internet: ckilian@first.etc.bc.ca

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ss107@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sergey  Shamis)
Subject: Re: Literary SF
Keywords: Literary SF
Reply-To: ss107@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Sergey  Shamis)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:42:18 GMT

In article <guay.724099614@sfu.ca> guay@fraser.sfu.ca (Tim Guay) writes:
>Hi; 
>
>Can anyone recommend any literary SF books/authors? IE: stuff that isn't     
>mainstream commercial SF.

Try Clifford D. Simak, especially "City", "All fresh is grass", "They walked 
like men".  He is one of my favorite SF authors.  Also, if you can find them, I would recommend Arkadii and Boris Strugatsky.  I saw several translations of
their works in English (I read them in Russian; of course, you may lose
something by reading only the translation of their rich, colorful language, 
and also you may not understand certain things which were written for the 
readers half the world away, but still, I strongly recommend them).

Serge Shamis
ss107@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu


Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written