HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anon-1159@twwells.com (Kristian)
Subject: Re: Am I alone
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 00:05:05 GMT


>beelewm@wkuvx1.bitnet  posted #6007
>I would just like to know if others {male} have been sexually abused by thear 
>fathers.  I would just like to know I am not alone in this...
> Catch 22


No, you are not alone.
Some by mothers also.
Some for long years.
Some subtly and not too intrusively BUT IT IS STILL ABUSE
Some with force and very invasively
IT ALL HURTS
IT ALL IS ABUSE

For some of us the "I" word is harder to say than sexual abuse
but we're working at it
and we can get through.

Wishing you well, Catch 22, asking a question like that is making
the first step.

"Kristian"



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From: sandro@asylum.UUCP (Sandro Wallach)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: what does **spoilers** mean ==> Suggesting WARNING
Date: 1 Sep 92 04:48:51 GMT

sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Sherri) writes a good explanation of the history of
the use of the term "spoiler" in ASAR.  (At least it sounds good; I
wasn't reading the group when the term evolved.)  Then:

>I personally really dislike the term ***spoilers***, I imagine I could 
>replace it with other clear messages.  Oh, and it helps to put a ^L
>after your spoiler so people can hit 'n' to skip the message.
...
>Anyway, that's a generaly explanation.  I think the policy is something
>we need to review, because I think that the ambience here can radically
>change so quickly that people need more warning particularly if they are
>in a difficult place in their lives.  

Yeah, the term confused me a LOT until I read the FAQ.  

How about we replace "SPOILER" with "WARNING"?  Here are some
examples.


===========>   THESE ARE JUST EXAMPLE WARNINGS


** WARNING:  Contains Description of Explicit Sex and Violence **

or

** WARNING:  Contains Seriously Depressing News **

or

** WARNING:  Contains Homophobic Ravings; If you can't give me the
** space I need to talk about my homophobia without yelling at me,
** please don't read this.

or even

** WARNING:  Contents Under Pressure.  I may explode if touched.  **

(I know I feel like that sometimes.  And it sounds cute.)



I think it's also good to include "(WARNINGS)" in the subject if there
are in any in the body, include a ctl-L after the warning.  Good
subject wording is also greatly appreciated by all, I suspect.


Just my two cents.   I'm not invested in this.   I'd be happy to see
something better.  Let's try not to distract too much from the normal
train of thought here.


	-- sandro

WTF.  Ob. asar: I got back another sex abuse memory today.  I was
telling my therapist about an incident I thought I remembered fully
and had dealt with.  However, in the telling it, I suddenly remembered
it went a lot farther than I remember.  And that in fact I'd thought
about that extra bit a lot for years, sometimes in dreams.  And then
"forgot" it.   Sigh....
From: bob@reed.edu (Robert Ankeney)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: sunrise, sunset...sunrise, sunset...
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:40:04 GMT
Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon


Jeff - I see poohbear's posting as a cry for help.  I can't see it as
possibly being taken any other way.  If we were to all turn our backs
on her and say "you're responsible for your own choices", her plea would
go unheard.  If no one were to care, how much more likely do you think
it would be that she might escalate her cutting?  Only by knowing that
people care have I been able to make the steps toward healing I need to.
This is a support group.  I think it is perfectly appropriate for people
to make suggestions.  Where poohbear's responsibility comes in is in her
decision whether or not to try those suggestions.  Her decision to try
reads to me as a very positive step.
     You are certainly welcome to make or not make suggestions, but I
see your attitude regarding this as rather uncaring.  I understand your
reasoning, but it assumes too much on being logical and rational.  There
are times when, because of my pain, I can not see that clearly.  And
those times I have been grateful when others have pointed that out to me.
From there, I can make clearer decisions.

     Robert

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Ankeney                 | "Yield and overcome.                |
...!tektronix!reed!bob         |  Bend and be straight.              |
...!tektronix!bob@reed.EDU     |  Empty and be full."    - Lao Tzu   |
From: v130py5w@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Renee M Sparling)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: newcomer
Date: 2 Sep 92 12:13:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <135133@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>, tibbits@sisal.llnl.gov (Patrick Tibbits) writes...
>Noone objected to my initial posting so I'm new here and to therapy
>for post-traumatic stress disorder. 
> 
>Patrick

welcome, Patrick
I hope you find what your looking for in this group

Renee
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: TY.AU7@isumvs.iastate.edu (C. MARIE RIGGINS)
Subject: Re: In need of a favor.
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 04:57:49 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.184730.19801@news.iastate.edu>,
TY.AU7@isumvs.iastate.edu (C. MARIE RIGGINS) writes:
>Hello everyone, I haven't been around this BBS too long but
>I need a favor from you.  My grandfather is having bypass
>surgery today and I'm the only one in the family who's not
>able to be there.  To those of you who have higher powers, could
>you please say a prayer for him.  To those of you who don't have
>a higher power could you just please remember him to day.
>I'd like to thank all of you for the welcome messages I got when I
>first posted and I look forward to getting to know all of you better.
>(Thanks for the message Scot).
>Marie

Good news!  My grandpa came through his surgery pretty well, and sd
should be able to go home in a week.  Thanks to all of you who wrote
to me and thanks to all who remembered and/or prayed for him.  I
I guess I should quit worrying and get back to studying :).
Marie :)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: assbc1@acad2.alaska.edu
Subject: Panda's back from the bush.
Organization: University of Alaska
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 02:59:45 GMT

Greetings from PANDA,

I am glad to be back from the bush and working a new job that will pay me to
read asar at work. (no joke, I even asked)

For those of you who I said goodbye to before I left I will be back on this ID
for at least another year. The summer went well. I learned a lot and discovered
a lot about myself.

I discovered I am willing to accept abuse(not a good thing, but by the end of
the sumer I was not willing to, and was willing to fight back).

I discovered I am filled with massive mondo amounts of anger (GOD DANM BUT I AM
PISSED OFF BIG TIME!!!!). The funny thing is that as of yet it is unfocused so
I am going off on people around me. In some ways this is good, I now get mad
when I should (yes Hineni, this is a more than major break through for me) on
the down side I can get mad out of the blue and then have to slap it down and
hold it untill I can figure out what is going on.

As a small aside to some of the things that have happened.


*************spoiler alert********************ditto to what you just read***

After "knowing" that I was sexualy abused by an adopted sibling as a child I
got a new on over the summer that I am totaly cut off from, the 2-5 second view
of a penis coming toward my face (not my brothers), and the little inner voice
that said "Of course you were raped, you just don't remember" (EXCUSE ME!!!
this was new to me and I have not had a chnce to deal with it yet. It has been
one of the major resons that I am again going back to counciling.


***********************************************************************


So now I have a up and coming rape memory to deal with, the abuse from the
sibling and (TADA) a new aet of seemingly functional emotion to deal with all
of it. Weeee fun...........NOT


Oh well, its good to be back and writing again.

Oh, crystal, I read your post (along with the posts of LOTS of others when I
got back). Hang in there. feed back is hard at times, but we are here, slow but
here.

To the rest of you, E-hugs if you want them, along with warm fuzzies and safe
thoughts.

PANDA

Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Emotions
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:48:58 GMT

root@khijol.UUCP wrote:

: I find that when I start getting a warm feeling about something that if my
: head takes over and the feeling becomes painful, I just about become 
: incompacitated.  If I try to not think about emotions, sometimes they are
: still so painful that I still become incompacitated.

I have a friend who has expressed to me the sentiment that "sometimes the
pain is so great that it seems like the only way out is to kill myself, to
stop the pain."

Only recently have I acquired the ability to truly understand (and sympathize
with) this statement.
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: sasnla@shadow.unx.sas.com (Nancy Agnew)
Subject: Re: Adults saying NO
Originator: sasnla@shadow.unx.sas.com
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:36:05 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.


In article <BtLpFB.HFD.1@cs.cmu.edu>, kram+@SOUTHFORK.EDRC.CMU.EDU (Paul Kram) writes:
>
>Can I be sure a survivor means "Yes" when she says "Yes"?  
>Does the difficulty with saying "No" carry over to 
>relationships that you choose to have with another 
>adult?  (e.g. do you become involved sexually before
>you really want to?)  Is there a way to ask the
>Yes/No question that has a better chance of getting
>a freely-given heartfelt true answer?  

Hi Paul --

I would say the difficulty definitely can carry over, for me it does
anyway.  One of the things that happens is that I can regress during sex
(or foreplay) so that I'm not really thinking as an adult anymore.  That
can be spooky and it is hard for me to give a "freely-given heartfelt
true answer" at those times.

One thing that makes a tremendous difference is being able to say NO or
STOP at *ANY* time during sex -- that way, if stuff comes up (flashback/
body memory/dissociation), I can attempt to come back to the present and
know who I am with and realize the abuse isn't being replayed.  Not much
fun for an SO, but it makes it possible for me to be willing to try as
opposed to avoiding sex altogether.  The alternatives of either celibacy
or feeling perpetually abused are even less fun, I think.

Depending upon where someone is in processing what happened to him or
her, saying NO may not be possible -- it may be that he or she is still
in the "I'm only good for sex" mindset -- or maybe the "I don't matter
so having sex with this person doesn't matter one way or the other"
mindset.  Neither of these is very positive for the survivor or the
sexual partner -- talking through what is going on, what expectations
are, and what might happen could help.

best of luck.  open communication is the best chance for success
when it comes to this kind of thing (I think so, anyway).
NLA
-- 
Nancy Agnew                         sasnla@unx.sas.com
SAS Institute Inc,  SAS Campus Dr,  Cary NC 27513-2414
My company's opinions are not likely mine, and vice versa.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (SHerri)
Subject: Re: say what?
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 03:20:57 GMT


I never got the impression that Prisoner used information gleaned from
APS to contact anyone.  I remember when Relkie sent him her phone number,
so unless he put her real address together with her anon-ID before that,
or unless he gleaned information on another occasion, I don't see the
problem.

I'm not saying there aren't other problems.  When I suggested to a concerned
APS user that she consider mailing messages to a trusted friend and having
him/her remove the identifying info and post it, I started thinking that
unless you believe that the APS admin will never look at your address, why
shouldn't you have the person you find it easiest to trust as the anon-admin?
Unless I missed something, I've never seen Prisoner abuse his responsibilities
as an APS-admin.  On the other hand, if you went around and made of list
of 'generally considered safe and trustworthy' people of asar, a lot of people
may be uncomfortable with Prisoner.

WHich APS you would choose will probably depend more on how you make decisions
and what you want an APS to do for you.  I think the significant difference
will be in how people feel about the different services.  If more people 
set them up, this will give a lot of people the freedom to send through
the person they feel most comfortable with, even though that person will
probably never see the relevant information.

Just my $0.02

Sherri
From: root@khijol.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: what does **spoilers** mean
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:38:37 GMT

X-ANON-Version: 0.4


would someone please tell me what you folk mean by using the experession 
spoilers in your posts?

thanks

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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: aw@sei.cmu.edu (Anne Wulffraat)
Subject: Just Questions w/answers
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 15:56:13 GMT

Now that I'm not crushed for time, I'm giving my input to my own questions.
Thank you!!!! to everyone who has responded. I find it to be a big help.

(Sorry, Robert, if this is redundant.)


> Do you have dreams? What are they like?

	I prayed when I was young that I wouldn't have any dreams. I
	did it every night until I decided it would be more efficient
	to make a blanket statement: Ok God, no dreams until I say so.
	So one day, years later, I said, "Ok, I think I can handle a dream
	now." And I had a really nice one that night. Amazing what the
	human mind can do.
	
Alright, weird question. Are you IN yourself in your dreams? 

	All mine divide me in two. I'm in the dream AND outside watching
	myself. Like being a character in a movie and watching the movie
	simultaneously. The character in it has emotions but is generally not
	aware of what's going on, and the one watching has emotional
	detachment and understands exactly what's happening. They can't help
	each other. The one time they came together I felt myself "go insane"
	and woke up screaming.
	Oh, BTW, I also had generic horror dreams all the time when masked
	figures like Jason, or other horror figures like Freddy Krueger would
	chase me around.

> Where were you un-involved parents or adult protective figures? Did none of
> us have them?

	I get so angry thinking about the adults in my life. Most of them - 
	including teachers - were more irrational than anyone I've met in
	later life. I don't know why. And I don't know how I could be in a 
	school system in which a star student and extrovert (I was a cool
	little kid) becomes introverted, sick and stupid without anyone
	responding. I would've talked if I could have found ANYBODY, and
	probably saved myself a lot of pain.
> 
> How do you deal with your parents/siblings - especially if you think they may
> not remember either?

	God, I don't know what to do on this one. I know my mother blocked
	stuff out, and though she was involved, her husband (my step) was
	so sick, I think it wasn't really voluntary and she may have blocked
	out what I'm remembering. But my memories are really incriminating
	her, and I don't know how I'll ever talk to her again. And I think
	my sister made it through without getting hurt, but I know she saw
	things, but I don't know if she remembers. It's taboo to talk about it
	and I'm afraid of shaking her up if I make her remember. Some people
	have blocked it and will never remember and may be better that way.
	So what do I do? I haven't talked to my mother for a while. She
	keeps sending me notes saying she wants to catch up, but never 
	makes the attempt to do so. She has simultaneously encouraged and
	discouraged me from remembering, and told me to quit bringing it up.
	Obvious safety mechanisms on her part, but I don't know if they're
	conscious or not. Oi.
	Any input?

Enough rambling. Thanks for listening.
-Anne

























Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: advice sought
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 23:30:51 GMT

scott_silverstein@yccatsmtp.ycc.yale.edu wrote:

: I had a mid-30's woman friend who relates a history of sexual abuse by a
: now-deceased relative.  She'd been in a number of dysfunctional
: relationships with men over the past decade.

It's starting to sound familiar.

: Trying to be her friend has been a roller coaster from day 1.

Uh-huh ... yes... God, do *I* know how *that* feels!

: If I behave nicely, she suspects "manipulation."  She says she
: doesn't understand the attraction, is not sure she deserves good
: people or things.  That maybe everything that goes wrong in her life
: is her fault.  Calm talking gets nowhere.  She talks endlessly about "how

Of course.  She's setting herself up to fail.  The fear of failure is
so great that she's predestinating herself.

: men are all scum." My confrontation with her about these behavior patterns
: led to (I fear) a permanent end of a friendship; I lost my temper after a
: few months of this.

Understandable.  Any rational human would get tired of this after a while.
As for the "friendship" going away, is it *really* a friendship?  Would
she listen to your point of view, or insist on always espousing hers?
If a "friendship" is based on manipulation, "I'll hang around as long as
you listen to my problems," then it really isn't a friendship at all, is it?
A friendship is give-and-take.  Sounds like you're the one doing all the giving.

: She had attached herself to another woman who is divorced and very bitter
: as well, which I feel is not the best kind of person for her to be hanging
: around with.  

Sounds like it's time to lay low for a while.

: My friends told me (several times) to "ditch big time."  Yet I'm not that
: way.

What does this mean "I'm not that way"?  Are you saying that you're so
attached to this woman that you will "stick" by her, even if it's not in
your best interest?  I've been there, friend.  There's a time to stick, and
a time to bail.  I've always liked the criteria Dick Sutphen uses - "If it's
hitting on your self-esteem, it's time to leave."  If she's manipulating you,
making you feel guilty or bad about yourself or your level of committment
or friendship, it's time to cruise.

Save yourself, so you can have something left to give to others.
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1159@twwells.com (Kristian)
Subject: Healing & Ecstasy
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 21:12:17 GMT


In a recent posting perez@hjf.org said:

>Learn as much as you can about your situation. Learn, *learn*, LEARN.
>Even if you don't think you can do anything, watch, and learn. This
>way lies growth, and a growing capacity to heal. Can't heal enough
>to suit you just yet? That's okay. You can learn more about what is
>wounded within yourself today, and heal tomorrow, when you have the
>strength. Or the next day. That is how you reclaim your life: one bit
>at a time, one day at a time.  [...]
> I have much to
>say on the subject of healing, most most of it from personal experience.
>(in re above: I wish there was a smiley for ecstacy!!!)

I would really appreciate  anything  about healing you would want
to share.  Your statement  above  helped me through a rough patch
last week, where I had to remind myself not to push and simply to
handle what I could.

And I loved the joy implied by your "smiley for ecstacy!!!"

"Kristian"



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: cloister@milton.u.washington.edu (cloister bell)
Subject: Re: Adults saying NO
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:00:53 GMT

kram+@SOUTHFORK.EDRC.CMU.EDU (Paul Kram) writes:

>Can I be sure a survivor means "Yes" when she says "Yes"?  
>Does the difficulty with saying "No" carry over to 
>relationships that you choose to have with another 
>adult?  (e.g. do you become involved sexually before
>you really want to?)  Is there a way to ask the
>Yes/No question that has a better chance of getting
>a freely-given heartfelt true answer?  

i don't think it's how you ask so much as it is what the person you're asking
believes will happen based on their answer.  if the person grew up with (for
example) an abusive father who would abuse whether or not the person said "no"
or "stop", then they will probably continue to believe that their answer
doesn't matter.  therefore, if the person answers "yes" when meaning "no", at
least the illusion exists that they're not being abused.  so what can you do?
you have to let the person know that their choices and answers do matter to
you, and are not going to fall on deaf ears.  you don't have to jump right in
with scary yes/no situations at first.  you can start with little things like
where shall we go eat this evening, or what movie should we go see.  you could
even go as far as to suggest something you know the person wouldn't choose for
themselves, and in the end agree with him/her to whatever alternative s/he
would prefer.  after a while, the person will probably be able to believe that
they can give you an honest answer and have it make a difference.
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
|tactical nuclear sdi stealth nsafood signature.  | cloister@u.washington.edu |
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: hellos, etc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 21:11:19 GMT

Hi, Sarah!  Glad to see you're back on asar!  As for leaving all your safe
people and places behind, I hope that doesn't apply to asar! <grin>
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery