HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 00:54:31 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      audiences

 *** Reply to note of 09/04/92 16:26
 THe mention of the 18th century reminds me of a strategy I have used to get
 students writing about "boring" stuff. Consider Swift's Dissertation Upon a
 Broomstick--an attempt to show that a good writer can write interestingly
 about anything. (Remember my earlier dictum: everything is interesting.) A
 more modern essay is a brilliant piece in the New Yorker about 15 years ago
 comparing the cuisenart food processor and the kitchenaid mixer. I have asked
 students to write interestingly about kitchen appliances. I have purposefully
 assigned them topics that initially hold out little promise: give me a 1000
 interesting words on nails and screws. THis assignment has generated some
 excellent technical articles about the two fasteners and their appropriate
 uses; it has also stimulated some fine papers connecting the objects with the
 colloquial uses of their names. In other words, don't try to be relevant. Try
 to be irrelevant.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 08:18:10 -0500
From:         "Joe Amato" <jamato@UX1.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Suspicion, paranoia, resistance,
              and comp/lit splits (2)

Along with Brian's and Robert's illuminating remarks re comp. and english,
let me just add to the pot another observation:   the way we who currently
teach writing teach writing is often much influenced from the start by a
not-so-tacit imperative to keep comp. people from 'duplicating' english
efforts.  Which is why so many well-intentioned writing classes appear to
be somewhat "content-less," and why it can be so damned difficult to
introduce more substantive reading into writing classes, and why the
textbook industry loves us so:  we represent the academic equivalent of the
how-to craze ...

E.g., If I had my way, I'd make all classes "writing intensive."  Good luck
trying to convince keepers of the flame to appreciate such a sentiment ...

But this is apart from the question of where best to situate comp. in
institutional terms.   More good luck to those trying in these tough times
to develop, not a virtual, but a real stand-alone tenure-track in a field
that's had a tough go at self-definition from the start, and has likewise
(pace Robert's accurate observations re research methods) enjoyed little
consensus *from its practitioners* as to what constitutes "reliable" or
"significant" or "valuable" research, writing, etc.  A relatively easy way
to obtain consensus is to develop measurable criteria, and I'm back to my
earlier posting ...

I for one prefer to think of comp. as productively hybrid.  The BEST thing
about it is what's always working against it (viz., in pragmatic careerist
terms).  Which is not to consign comp. to marginal status, but simply to
recognize that it tends to work in  conjunction with its ostensible
borrowings from numerous other areas of inquiry.
Ideologically speaking, rather aboveboard, even vital.  And capable, though
not w/o a good deal of effort, at garnering its own share of kudos (I
needn't name names, albeit there all too few even these days).

Gross generalizations, perhaps.
But close to the mark?


Joe Amato
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 17:27:56 HST
From:         James Shimabukuro <JAMESS@UHUNIX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) All whites are not WASPs (12)

Robert Boyar,
   Why do we have to look at the power structure as either money based or
racially based.  How about a combination of the two.  I'm sure we wouldn't
have to look very far to find other bases.

Jim Shimabukuro
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 02:39:49 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Ice T and Murphy Brown

 *** Reply to note of 09/06/92 22:41
 Hit me with Bloom and Hirsch and I have to give in. Heck, one of them would
 have done, but both? (If you use just one, use Bloom: he's the more obnoxious
 of the two and he's dead.) OK. Ice T and Murphy Brown are culturally
 significant and both will soon appear in the NYT Crossword Puzzle. Thus when I
 see the clue for 48 Down "Murphy ______," I will abandon the Bloomhirshian
 kneejerk response "bed" (oldthink), and when I see 25 Across "_______ T" I'll
 know not to put in the troglyditic "to a." Brave new world. But for the locus
 of pop culture and culture diversity, look to the streets, the local clubs,
 the corner bar, talk radio. Commercial tube and the top 40 are yesterday's
 news. See, pop culture doesn't need intellectuals to celebrate it or even to
 marginalize it. It happens, people enjoy it, it passes, something else comes
 along. Pop culture doesn't know that it's marginalized; it isn't in most
 places. It often is in universities (a small part of the world), and maybe it
 should be. Students live in the world of pop culture. Maybe the U can provide
 a little change of pace or perspective.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:21:01 -0400
From:         WENDY <WARREN@EDINBORO.EDU>
Subject:      us/them

Bob:

3/3 teaching loads? That sounds like a dream to me. As a tenure-line
rhet/comp professor, I'm teaching 5/3 (or perhaps 5/4--they haven't
closed the case on that, not until spring enrollments show the need,
which I'm sure they will) which is the maximum by contract. [Plus,
I'm completing an independent study for my doctoral study--final paper,etc.
due in Feb.] Plus, they raised the class limit this year by one, and I
have three preps (more like four because one course is both MWF and also
TH). Whoaa, get out the violins, right? But with budget cutbacks,
administrators put the burden on temps and instructor-rank non-tenured
people; that way they get to hire three less temps if they slap 5/3 on
6 of us. Lots of fun. But why complain? I can't, really. I have no
power to speak of, plus I do all these weird things like "play with
computers" and teach my students to "play with computers" and to go
out and tackle real-live problems to solve and write reports on.

If I were so inclined, I'
I'd probably have a bad attitude, but teaching so many FORCES me to use
more active learning techniques in my classroom. This year my students
are learning more than ever, and showing more enthusiasm than ever, but
I don't ever want to let my administrators get wind of this.
W.Warren
warren@edinboro.edu
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 11:39:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) Forwarded message from BreadNet (2)

Date:         Sun, 13 Sep 1992 15:01:40 EDT
From:         IN%"RobertRoyar@Delphi.com" Robert Royar (C&CD Moderator)
Message-Id:   <1992Sep13.150140.1.Grendel.Lair@Cratylus>
Subject:      Forwarded message from BreadNet (2)
Reply-to:     IN%"R0MILL01@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU"  C&CD
Organization: Cratylus Educational Software

[I copped the following message from the BreadNet SIG, thinking it would be
of interest to MBU-L and the C&CD crowd -rdr]

69 (of 72) WWRIGHT (Bill Wright) Sep. 11, 1992 at  8:03 (1842 characters)

This conference is open to people on BreadNet, CHARTNet, and Urbnet --
and others.  Please feel free to put up requests for information, call
for projects, let us know about conferences, let us know what you
are reading, and so on.  I had to get over to my computer and tell you
about this:

Some teachers on the Iris network were all abuzz about the September
issue of Macworld magazine.  I got up early this morning and started
reading some articles -- and now I see why.  It is one of the best
collections of articles about technology and education I have ever
seen.  The pieces cover what is going on in the Federal government, to
what other countries are doing, to the success stories and failures in
this country.

One, called "Separate Realities"  (Subtitle: The creation of the
technological underclass in America's public schools)  was especially
good.  Among the examples of drill and kill and computer nonuse was
one story that caught my eye.  A teacher at Sir Francis Drake School
in San Francisco's depressed Hunters Point area went out picked up $50
old laptops that had been used for home banking in a project.

   To promote writing, Drake sent its students home with the
   laptops.  The simple terminals -- 300-bits-per-second modems
   with keyboards that plug into TV sets -- were once used for
   home banking.  Porter picked up the antiques for $50 each,
   supplying the whole class for less than the price of a
   Macintosh Classic.  Instead of going home and watching TV, the
   kids conversed online.  Their writing skills steadily
   improved.  Students and the parents also used the machines to
   communicate with teachers, opening a new link to family.  In
   one case, a semiliterate parent learned to write by following
   the child's example.

Again, this was in the September MacWorld magazine.

Bill Wright

------------------------------
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 09:04:08 --500
From:         SLATIN@UTXVM.BITNET
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) RE: ReComposing (6

About the "service" issue: one of the crucial complicating (VERY complicating)
factors at UT, I think, is the position of the English Department in relation
to the rest of the University-- not only the College of Liberal Arts, but also
Engineering, Natural Sciences, and Business; I mention these three as the ones
most prominently involved in the controversy over 306 two years ago, the ones
whose leaders have shown a certain willingess to express their feelings about
the teaching of writing on this campus.

To what extent does it make sense to involve people outside the department(s)
that will teach writing courses in discussions about what those courses will
and should do, and if it makes sense at all, what form should that involvement
take?

John Slatin
UT Austin
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Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 17:31:15 --500
From:         "David E. Schwalm" <IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Big Changes at UT Austin

 *** Reply to note of 09/05/92 07:39
 Interesting development. John, do you have any idea where the plan originated
 from? I more or less support this sort of move, where it is feasible. English
 Departments are not to be trusted with anything as important as teaching
 writing. Certainly the Department at UTA has less than a stellar record of
 delivering the goods. I have had little interest in a division between
 comp/rhet and English at ASU because the English Department has been generally
 supportive and has left the development of the program in the hands of
 comp/rhet specialists. But I wish the new department well.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:40:15 EDT
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         BAHUOT01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU
Subject:      Re: Texas

I agree with Joe Amato's mixed blessing assessment of splitting up Comp from
the English Department.  I worked within such a system at Syracuse and while it
solved some problems it created others.   Composition faculty and programs had
to struggle for the legitimacy they had already enjoyed within the English
Department.
             Brian Huot
             University of Louisville
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Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 10:16:13 -0400
From:         irwin@CARR.YORKU.CA
Subject:      critical thinking

Wes: I think you are right when you mention context as important to
critical thinking.  This approach enables a thinker to analyse things
from perspectives, and then to compare perspectives.  If you don't
consider perspectives and contexts you can only assume that people are
seeing things as they are and not constructing things.  If you don't
know that people are constructing things, you argue from absolutes.

And to beat a dead horse, Perry's work is central to this and critical
thinking (and writing) has been discussed very well from this "point
of view" by Joanne Kurfiss in her book _Critical_Thinking_

					Ron
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        Snail Mail Address:
Ronald R. Irwin           		Graduate Program in Psychology
irwin@writer.yorku.ca			Behavioural Sciences Bldg., 306B,
(416) 250-7188           		York University,
Computer-Assisted Writing Centre	4700 Keele St., North York,
Department of Psychology		Ontario, Canada, M3J 1P3.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 10:40:55 CDT
From:         Nancy Kaplan <NKAPLAN@UTDALLAS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Splitting comp from eng (14)

Robert--I think you're missing an important element of the Texas move.
This is not simply a question of what kinds of knowledge claims literary
types and composition types tend to want to make nor a question of
what kinds of investigations each does nor what sorts of preparation
for teaching each does.  No.  This is a question of political and
ideological struggle.  The E306 morass had to do with whether a composition
class should ask students to argue about issues of public moment and policy
-- like for example affirmative action.  The readings were based on
public documents--court decisions chiefly.  The "radical right" found
this "content" obnoxious, squelched the course, got rid of Linda Brodkey,
and NOW, it seems, thinks it can sanitize composition for all time by
making sure that it can control its courses more directly.  That, as I
understand it, is the reason why the curriculum is being transferred out
of the English department.  It does not sound as if the university is
setting up a research area that, because its methodology differs from
literary studies, deserves its own department.

John Slatin--is this a fair summary of the state of affairs and the
reasons for concern?

Nancy Kaplan
Director of Rhetoric
University of Texas at Dallas
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:30:15 CDT
From:         Wes Chapman <WESCHAP@UIUCVMD.BITNET>

What am I saying, sendmail?  Sendfile.  I survived the first week of
classes, but not with brain intact. Wes Chapman
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 00:39:33 EDT
From:         Greg DiMedio <T270100@UNIVSCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Ice T and Murphy Brown

David:
Henry Giroux put out a book a few years ago entitled _Popular Culture:
Schooling and Everyday Life_.  In it he discusses "a pedagogy of pleasure
and meaning."  Even though popular culture appears to stunt creativity, defuse
popular revolt, and turn people into passive consumers, Giroux argues that
students draw meaning from it as well as pleasure.  The meaning, he argues, is
a source for critical pedagogy which empowers the student to better manipulate
the medium he or she prefers.  And within these popular mediums (Ice T) rests
the cultural diversity of our population and its viewpoints.  The links may
be inextricable, but the fact is Ice T serves a function beyond
entertaining and profiting.
(I think it was Spike Lee who said that the rap group Public Enemy was the
Black CNN.  Spike Lee also announced that it was justifiable and ethical for
Black students to take the day off of school to attend the opening of his
movie about Malcom X.  His argument was simple:  The traditional,
educational approaches to Black history were flawed and his movie
provided a perspective that was rinsed free of white terministic screens.)
We can join with Allan Bloom and Hirsch and marginalize popular culture.
But the fact is that principles of democracy and cultural diversity are
at work here.  And popular culture means a lot to students today.

  Greg DiMedio   t270100@UNIVSCVM.BITNET
                 University of South Carolina
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Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:25:59 CDT
From:         Wes Chapman <WESCHAP@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: PREPeditor

OK, Let's try this again.  Here are the instructions for getting a copy of
PREP, typed in this time (I can't sendfile to Julie either, so I might as well
type it for everyone). Instructions are exactly as they appear in the
documentation. The current version is a8 (substitute for ?? below).

PREP is available via anonymous ftp on the internet (those instructions
follow).  If you cannot use ftp, please send mail to
<prep-project@andrew.cmu.edu> and we will forward instructions on how you
can get a physical copy through the mail (for a small fee to cover our
expenses).

Please try PREP, and let us know what you think!

*Anonymous FTP instructions***********************************

The archives are stored as a "binhex'd self-extracting archive."  It is
available for anonyous FTP via gnome.cs.cmu.edu, and the EXACT instructions
for getting the release package follows:

1) open an anonymous ftp connection to gnome.cs.cmu.edu (128.2.254.185)
That is, do a "ftp gnome.cs.cmu.edu", and login as "anonymous", a password
of your userid.

2) As your first ftp command after the login, issue the following:

cd /usr/chandhok/public/prep

!!!IF YOU DO NOT FOLLOW STEP 2 EXACTLY, YOU WILL GET AN ERROR!!!

3) Next, issue the following command (in ascii mode, BTW), and substitute
the version number for the ??

get prepv??.sea.hqx

4) On your Macintosh, use binhex or Stuffit to un-binhex the file.
You will end up with an application, which, when double-clicked,
will unpack itself as (at least) two files:

*The Prep Application
*The documentation in PREP format

The unpacking may result in a release folder containing all the files,
depending on what versions you are retrieving.

Please send bugs and comments to prep-project+@andrew.cmu.edu
We will only allow for anonymous ftp access to this application if
we get feedback to people, otherwise it is not worth it to us.
See the About Box of the application for more info.

The PREP Editor is Copyright (c) 1990
by the PREP Editor Group of Carnegie Mellon University
All rights reserved.  Do not distribute without permission.

All trademarks are property of their respective owners.
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Date:         Tue, 8 Sep 1992 10:32:00 EST
From:         BURT@BRANDEIS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Ice T and Murphy Brown

The MBTA advertises the air-conditioning on its buses by calling them
Ice-T. (People colloquially refer to the MBTA as the T.)
John B
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Sun, 13 Sep 1992 09:22:07 CDT
From:         McDonald James C <jcm5337@USL.EDU>
Subject:      Re: change (deja vu)

I think it's very difficult to predict what's going to happen to English
departments and writing programs on a national scale.  There are too many
things to take into account.
  Maxine's call for writing programs to split off from English departments, I
believe, only applied to large research-oriented universities, at least accor-
ding to a WPA article that she published.  Smaller teaching-oriented college
and university English faculty, especially those that don't or can't rely on
legions of T.A.'s and adjuncts to teach composition, often teach as much
writing as literature, if not more.
  English departments like mine know that they can't compete with the flagship
university's English department, so we move or emphasize areas like rhetoric,
creative writing, and folklore that are neglected there, redefining what English
is in the process.  Lit people may feel nervous about this and regard me like
something out of Pandora's box, but that box can't be closed again.
  After ten or twenty years of WAC, I don't know whether it will make sense to
house a writing program in any one department.
  If efforts to deal with English departments' and universities' reliance on
and exploitation of adjunct and parttime faculty begin to be successful, what
will that do?  Doesn't the Freshman English course at many universities depend
on having lots of cheap labor to teach the sections?
  How long can we expect the century-old department structure of the university
to continue?
  What will be the effect of the economy on the organization of universities--
or of calls by state legislatures and others to decrease the emphasis on
research and require professors to teach more classes--or of calls for more
and more assessment and accountability--or of the "culture wars"?  What if Pat
Buchanan is elected President in 1996?
  I don't see a single global solution emerging--a writing department in every
pot, lit and comp faculty walking hand-in-hand into the sunset.  I think we'll
need to be ready to turn the changes that come to our advantage.  I hope to
learn some more lessons from the UT faculty this year on how to do this.
     Jim McDonald
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 10:38:34 -0500
From:         sm51@PRISM.GATECH.EDU
Subject:      Texas

There are sound pedagogical and institutional reasons for wanting
Composition to stand on its own independent of English.  However, the
belief that writing instruction should be a value-neutral skills course,
free of any ideological content, is not one of them.

I doubt anyone can say with certainty that such reasoning was the prime
motive in the Texas restructuring.  Likewise, no one who knows the recent
history of the place will deny that it was involved at some level.

I say again: if you regard what is happening at UT as apolitical and purely
administrative, you are hiding from the whole truth.

Stuart Moulthrop
Quondam Austinite
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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 15:59:43 CDT
From:         Wes Chapman <WESCHAP@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      RE: small library

John:  Well, I'd certainly count _Writing Space_ as essential reading for
anyone interested in hypertext.  But around here hypertext is in more or less
the same category as slime molds:  I can do all the research I want to on them,
and I can even teach about them in appropriate classes, but I shouldn't
expect toomany people to handle them on a regular basis.  Don't know how it is
where you are.

good idea though,
Wes Chapman
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