HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Fermat's flunkeys (was Re: A Real Challenge)
Date: 10 Apr 92 07:56:55 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Dave Aronson writes about "Fermat's flunkeys (was Re: A Real Challenge)" to
All  [09 Apr 92 23:20]

DA>  Layman's Interpretation of the Three Laws of Thermodynamics: 
DA>  1) You can't win.  2) You can't break even.  3) You can't quit. 

I was going to post that, but changed my mind and posted the synthesis of the
three sets of three laws instead.  Have you been using Bill's telescope again,
Dave?

DA>   The second, methinks. <sigh>  Not so much the schools themselves, 
DA> but the low standards they let students get away with meeting. It 
DA> is a  national DISGRACE that we have illiterates with high-school 
DA>  diplomas....

When I was taking some courses in a community college in SE Aridzona three or
four years ago, one of my classmates was a tutor in the learning lab.  She told
me that some of the students admitted to the school (They admitted anyone with
a HS diploma or anyone over 21 years old.) with HS diplomas read at the second-grade
level.  One of the requirments to get an AA from that institution was to be
able to read at the 11th-grade level.  I still can't understand how they can
have an 11th-grade reading requirement to get a 14th-grade diploma.  But, then
again, I can't understand how someone who can read only at the second-grade
level can get a HS diploma.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ehp@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU ("Didi Pancake")
Subject: Re: A Truly International Gathering
Keywords: Mensa in Holland
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 13:25:41 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.210937.13511@infonode.ingr.com> crossgl@infonode.ingr.com (Gordon Cross) writes:
>
>>and the Pocono RG in Allentown, PA over Memorial Day. Hmmm,
>>Pocano has probably been the most consistently excellent RG for me, part
>>of which has to do with the venue.
>
>Yes it was good in '91 when I was there.  But one question?  Why did *nobody*
>dance at the luau??  They did play music ...

Pocono isn't a real big "dancin'" RG. I think it's because they have that
wonderful courtyard that we take over. Several years there has been an
impromptu soap bubble blowing activity in the courtyard about the same
time as the dance...The area is protected from most wind, but does have
breezes, that and the floodlights and soap bubbles at night are a real
trip. One year some guy (a smoker relegated to the yard) was making
bubbles with smoke in them that were absolutely fascinating both visually
and scientifically. (Also I really don't do my best dancing on wet
Astroturf (tm) which that area around the pool usually is.)

>I've been to RGs five (yes 5) consecutive weekends - pretty much burned me out
>and so don't think I'll repeat that one!  (it was expensive too!)

Yeah, but did you have to work in between or were you able to C&R
(collapse and recuperate)?
--
|  Didi Pancake         |       "There is a great, red cheeseball        |
|  ehp@virginia.edu     |       of insanity in this picnic basket."      |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|  All the usual disclaimers about the origins of these opinions apply.  |
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: /T/ What is the purpose of this newsgroup and Mensa?
Date: 6 Apr 92 10:02:19 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Dave Aronson writes about "/T/ What is the purpose of this newsgroup and Mensa?"
to All  [05 Apr 92 23:55]

TK> Scott, have you attended enough Mensa functions to be sure of what
 TK> "typical" is for Mensa?  I've been in  Mensa 3 years, I have not.
 ST>                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ST> You just contradicted yourself!
    ST> Sorry, couldn't pass this one up... :)
DA>                                          ^
    MS> You should learn how to read.        I
                                             `------------------.
DA> Mike, do you feel a tugging sensation in one of your legs?  I
DA> Let me point something out: --------------------------------'

Actually, you didn't have to point it out to me, Dave; I caught it, and I ignored
it.

DA>  He gotcha good this time! That's a midget smiley.

Nope, he didn't "gotcha me;"  I turned the tables on him.  He has taken jokes
out of context and turned them into flames, so I did the same to him.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
From: dh4j+@andrew.cmu.edu (David O Hunt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: /T/ Harsh Language in Recent Post
Date: 7 Apr 92 06:37:44 GMT
Organization: Masters student, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA



>Tough shit, you cock-suckin, shit-eatin, mutha-fuckin, summ-bitch asshole.
>You are so full of bullshit that the fertilizer industry has declared you a
>national resource.
>
>I have been meaning to ask you, when are your parents going to get married?
> Oh yes, I almost forgot:  Yo mama cain't figger out which of those dozen guys
>who paid her five bucks that night is yo papa.  I wonder though, did she get
>her rabbies shots before or after?
>
>Mike Steiner

While I agree with Mike about Scott's criticisms of Mensa being unfounded
and not a little racist, I think that this kind of vitriol is uncalled for.



David Hunt - Graduate Slave | My mind is my own.          | Towards both a
Mechanical Engineering      | So are my ideas & opinions. | Palestinian and
Carnegie Mellon University  | <<<Use Golden Rule v2.0>>>  | Jewish homeland!
============================================================================
Email:  dh4j@andrew.cmu.edu        I think, therefore I am paid. (S. Harris)
"You should be furious that polluters are threatening your great-great-
grand children's lives!"---Iroquois chief speaking about the environment.
Organization: Masters student, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Date: Mon,  6 Apr 1992 13:38:04 -0400 
From: David O Hunt <dh4j+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Please Read (Esp S Tai)

Before I read my mail, and before I read any posts, I wish to apologize
publicly for the last statement of one of my recent posts.  In it, I hinted
that Scott might be a Nazi.  These words were written "in a passion" and
after they were send I regret writing that particular sentence.

David Hunt - Graduate Slave | My mind is my own.          | Towards both a
Mechanical Engineering      | So are my ideas & opinions. | Palestinian and
Carnegie Mellon University  | <<<Use Golden Rule v2.0>>>  | Jewish homeland!
============================================================================
Email:  dh4j@andrew.cmu.edu        I think, therefore I am paid. (S. Harris)

"You should be furious that polluters are threatening your great-great-
grand children's lives!"---Iroquois chief speaking about the environment.
From: kyle@uunet.uu.net (Kyle Jones)
Subject: Re: signing off rec.org.mensa for the time being
Organization: UUNET Technologies, Inc
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 15:20:07 GMT

 > > I was hoping that this newsgroup was a chance for mensans to interact
 > > electronically.  I would like to see this newsgroup moderated to quiet up
 > > the whiners.  How can we go about starting moderation?
 > 
 > I am against moderation.  Moderation would make someone the god of the
 > newsgroup to decide who is a flamer and who is not.  Would you like it
 > if (for some reason) you were sited as a bad person, and your posts
 > were edited out.

Moderators generally do not work this way.  They accept or reject
articles based on the article content, not on who wrote the
article.  It's not hard to recognize a flame.  Subtlety is a lost
art on USENET.

 > Moderation would also slow the group, it would take much more time for
 > messages to propagate.

The rapid propagation of the news is one of the reasons flame
wars abound.  A nice delay of a day or three would do wonders
toward calming fast and furious flamers.  If people knew their
response to an article would be read three days later they would
care less about responding and more about providing useful
information outside the context of the argument.
From: twc@svcs1.UUCP (Ted Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: /T/ The 2% Rule
Date: 6 Apr 92 06:13:55 GMT
Organization: Silicon Valley Computer Society, Sunnyvale, CA

From article <1992Apr5.212449.13089@ncsu.edu>, by tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai):
> twc@svcs1.UUCP (Ted Chan) writes:
> 
>> I don't think "actively" and "minorities" mean what you think they mean.
>> I'd hate to think that I'm actively discriminating against fellow minority
>> members, but I'm sure you know better...
> 
> Any African-American or Hispanic US MENSA members out there?

So the category "minorities" now only includes African-Americans and Hispanics,
huh?  Boy, you are a condescending racist.  And you've proved my point 
quoted above.


> 'Nuff said.

Enough indeed.
From: jc@sppip7.lkg.dec.com (John Chambers)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: The 2% rule
Date: 7 Apr 92 14:14:05 GMT
Reply-To: jc@sppip7.lkg.dec.com (John Chambers)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


|> 
|> 	"Applicants must supply evidence of intelligence test scores
|> 	in the top 2% of the population, or make the necessary
|> 	arrangements to have it sent."
|> 
|> ...
|> 
|> Is this discriminatory?  Scott Tai says it is.  I beleive he's wrong.
|> To discriminate, we must consider some group of people without regard
|> to personal merit.  We have one criteria, and it is exclusivly
|> personal merit.

Say, why don't you folks take a different tack.  I mean,  if  you  you
look up "discriminate" in any dictionary, you will find that this rule
is in fact discriminatory on its face.  It makes  a  distinction,  and
classifies  people  on  the  basis  of  the distinction, which is what
discrimination is all about.

But why in the world do you accept the idea that  "discrimination"  is
necessarily  a bad word?  I mean, I discriminate between various sorts
of music and musicians, and if you were  to  tell  me  that  I  should
listen  to  all  of them equally, I'd tell you where you could go with
your silly-assed ideas of equality.  If you were to  suggest  (as  was
done  a  few  years  back  by  an American politician who shall remain
nameless) that the mediocre need representation on the Supreme  Court,
too,  most people would think you were making a joke.  If I have to go
to the hospital, I certainly hope that they discriminate on the  basis
of medical competence when they hire.

So why not just say "Sure, Mensa is discriminatory, on  the  basis  of
intelligence,  and we intend to keep it that way"?  You might add that
the  organization  tries  to  keep   its   discrimination   based   on
intelligence,  and  to  avoid  discriminating on other bases.  But the
world has enough  discrimination  based  on  other  things;  it  could
perhaps  use a bit more based on things like intelligence, competence,
and perhaps even friendliness.

[My kill file sure is getting full; I suppose that's yet another  form
of evil discrimination.  What a reprobate!  ;-]
From: bathurst@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Bruce Bathurst)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: What is the definition and function of a university?
Summary: American universities are here to serve.
Keywords: SAT GRE IQ ETC college diploma bucks educashun
Date: 16 Apr 92 10:27:45 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU

[Note: I am posting this for a friend, Charlie Peirce, who
thinks he notes an unhappy trend in American education.  He
welcomes comments and any corrections.]

American education, for the most part, is directed to no
other object than the welfare of individual scholars; and
thereby incites *them* to persue that object exclusively.  A
great university bears upon its seal the remark of its
founder: 'I wish to found an institution where any man can
learn anyting.' It was a noble idea; and it would be mean to
pick flaws in it--especially as he did not say what ulterior
purpose he might have in view.  But the university which
parades this casual remark as its motto seems to proclaim to
its students that their individual well-being is its only
aim.  Our scientific schools distribute circulars which
dwell chiefly upon the handsome incomes their alumni are
making, thereby calling up such images as a handsomely laid
table with a pair of Havre de Grace ducks and a bottle of
Ch^ateau Margaux.  What comes of such a conception of
education and of life, for surely the purpose of education
is not different from the purpose of life?  The result is
that, notwithstanding all the devices and tricks of the
American teachers' art, it may be doubted whether any
teaching ever anywhere did less to make happy men and women.
At any rate, the spiritual meagreness of the typical
American school-book is extreme.  The great mediaeval
universities, the modern German universities, the new
science colleges of England, which did, and do, great things
for their students personally, were never in the least
founded for their students' individual advantage, but, on
the contrary, because of the expectation that the truths
benefit the state.  This end was, and is, so constantly in
view that the scholars are led to regard their own lives as
having a purpose beyond themselves.

Posted on behalf of C.P. by

Bruce


-- 
Department of Geological and Geophysical Sciences
Princeton University, Princeton, NJ 08544
bathurst@phoenix.princeton.edu bathurst@pucc.bitnet !princeton!phoenix!bathurst
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: (T) INTELLIGENCE DEBATE: PART I
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 06:12:42 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.040101.12632@ncsu.edu> 
tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai) writes:
>-------------------------
>INTELLIGENCE AND HEREDITY
>-------------------------

>ARTHUR R. JENSEN
>THE HERITABILITY OF INTELLIGENCE
>--------------------------------

Date of this article?   Source?  

Also, isn't it a bit odd that you're quoting (without comment) Arthur
Jensen, who DOES (in his book) argue for racial differences in IQ?
[...]
>	One of the most convincing demonstrations that I.Q. is related to
>"real
>life" indicators of ability was provided in a classic study by Terman
>and his
>associates at Stanford University.  In the 1920's they selected a total
>of 1,528
>children with Stanford-Binet I.Q.'s above 140.  The average I.Q. of the
>group was
>152.  These children were investigated periodically over the years up
>into their
>adulthood.  (Most of them are now in their fifties.)

Which makes this something that was published around 1975.  Suffice it
to say that the IQ debate has gone through several rounds since then.

In particular,  the discussion of Spearman's g has been hot and heavy.
(Deleted here for reasons of brevity.)
See Gould's _The Mismeasure of Man_ ( New York: Norton, 1981) for an
opposing view, along with some critiques of Jensen.

[...]
>Identical Twins Reared Apart
>----------------------------

>	One of the most important lines of evidence for the inheritance of
>intelligence in humans comes from studies of identical twins
 who were separated
>shortly after birth and reared in different homes.  Identical twins
>originate from
>a single fertilized ovum which splits in the course of early development
>to form
>two individuals. 

This section is based mainly on the data of Sir Cyril Burt, much of
which has been found to be erroneous and probably fraudulent.
(Counterarguments to the fraud allegations, which included making up
data and even the names of research assistants, have surfaced recently.)
In any case, even Jensen has since admitted that the Burt data, from
which the section that begins with the above passage seems to be
derived, is untrustworthy.  (See gould, op cit., pp.235-7.)

Roger

PS: please watch the wordwrap/line length, OK?
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: /T/ Scott Tai, welcome to my kill file
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:20:11 GMT
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory

eab@uh.msc.edu (Edward Bertsch) writes:

> Scott Tai, welcome to my kill file

What is your point in posting this?  Just curious...

---------
Scott Tai
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: IQ Statistics und SAT, GRE, GMAT
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 02:44:15 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.182420.4781@ucc.su.OZ.AU> colinr@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Colin Rose) writes:
>           RE: IQ Distribution and SAT, GRE etc

>I am modelling the distribution of IQ at selective universities, where
>selective embodies SAT, GRE and I guess IQ tests. Does anyone have
>figures relating SAT, GRE or GMAT test scores with IQ scores. The 
>modelling is being done with Mathematica, and is to be published soon
>in a book on Mathematica, so it is quite important that the given numbers
>are accurate. 

Have you asked ETS?  They may have published some studies of correlates
of their tests.

Also, where do you get your data from?  I know of no college that
systematically tests its students' IQs.

Third, what do you mean by "selective embodies SAT, etc."?  Many schools
that are NOT particularly selective (for wahtever reason; sometimes
self-selection in the applicant pool) use these exams, too.

Finally, just which numbers are "given"?  I'm not quite sure I've
understood what it is you're trying to do.

>After searching through over a thousand messages in this group,
>I have managed to glean that IQ is the normal random variable with
>mean of 100 (by convention), and standard deviation somewhere
>around 20. If mensa membership is restricted to the top 2% of the 
>distribution, then these figures imply that the entry criterion to
>mensa is an IQ of 141. Is this the actual figure? I recall seeing a
>figure of 136 somewhere, and 132 somewhere else. If you can tell me the
>entry requirement, and if mensa IS restricted to the top 2%
>of the population, then I can work out the implied standard deviation.

IQ was *designed* to be a normal random variable with mean of 100 and 
some s.d.  Different tests have different norming sd's; 15 and 24 are
two values I've seen mentioned here lately.  

There are many, many IQ tests.  Their scores are not directly comparable
to one another.

Roger
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: What is the purpose of this newsgroup and Mensa?
Date: 9 Apr 92 16:10:02 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Richard Barry Shrum writes about "Re: What is the purpose of this newsgroup
and Mensa?" to All  [09 Apr 92 05:42]

RBS> Well, I'm not Mr. Tai, but I personally believe a person should 
RBS> be granted membership into MENSA immediatly upon producing ANY 
RBS> grade of "B+" or better, from any exam, test, essay, or pop quiz, 
RBS> during the applicants entire academic career. In order to authen- 
RBS> ticate the score, the grade must be written in red ink. The requirement

RBS> of a "B+" will be waived, in the event the applicant *did* receive 
RBS> a letter grade of "B", along with the teacher's affixed comment 
RBS> of "showing improvement" accompanying the letter grade; smiley 
RBS> face optional. Its the only fair way. 

Rick, there should be one other way to get in:  Anyone named Lanny Poffo should
automatically be admitted without any further evidence--smiley face manadatory.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: kyle@uunet.uu.net (Kyle Jones)
Subject: Re: /T/ Weekend Plans
Organization: UUNET Communications Services
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 15:54:01 GMT

moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com writes:
 > Oh dear, it looks like Scott didn't get a life this weekend.
 > Maybe if we all chip in, we can get Scott a life by next
 > weekend.  Or at least buy him a clue.

Or a laxative.
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Tai's Lies
Date: 6 Apr 92 09:48:14 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Scott Tai writes about "Tai's Liea" to All  [05 Apr 92 23:55]

>ST>  You must have missed what I said. I wrote that I had gained 
>ST> some insight into this organization. I've never stated whether 
>ST> or not I've attended any MENSA functions. 

 > Have you?  If so, how many?  Over what period of time?  Where?

ST>  None of your business! :) (typical Mike Steiner reply) 

Wrong, garbage mouth.  You made it our business with your fucking lies and slander.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: raphael@fx.com (Glen Raphael)
Subject: Re: A REAL CHALLENGE: Fermat's last theorem..
Organization: FXD/Telerate, Mountain View, CA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 22:54:02 GMT

>>cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA) writes:
>>>While we're talking puzzles, Here's some really challenging stuff
>>>for you to figure out..

>>>Fermat, one of the great mathematicians
>>>in history, discovered the following theorem: 
[theorem deleted]

I responded:
>>Yeah; I spent a few weeks on it back in high school. Actually, I proved it.
>>The proof *is* elegant, but a bit on the long side. I'll see if I have time
>>to type it in later...

And keroche@unix1.tcd.ie (Faust II), among others, wrote:
>Don't do that ! Copyright it, and get a noble prize before
>you send it in. (assuming you're right)

No, I'd rather just post it to the net. And I would do so BUT...

Unfortunately, I don't have room in this article to fill in all the details.

:-) :-) :-> :-) ;-}

Glen Raphael
raphael@fx.com
From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Who's in charge here?
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1992 21:01:26 -0500

 gms> What is it that you wish to know that the most intelligent person
 gms> on this newsgroup may bestow His knowledge upon thee?

 MS> How do you know that you're the most intelligent
 MS> person on this newsgroup?

 gms> Well, if you don't know, I'm not going to tell you.

 I see, you're the most intelligent person because you're the only
 person who has figured out how you know you're the most intelligent
 person.  But, wait a second . . . .

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: /T/ minorites in rec.org.mensa
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 03:03:36 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.230429.27642@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai) writes:
>kyle@uunet.uu.net (Kyle Jones) writes:

>> If you know a way of positively identifying minorities from their postings, 
>> without them identifying themsleves as such, I would like to hear it.

>If you don't know, I'm not going to tell you :)

>Seriously, I would expect to see at least a few come forward and identify
>themselves.  Only a couple have.

Most of them probably don't think you deserve the recognition.  In light
of your recent behavior here (have you ever read
new.announce.newusers?), I can see their point.  As a member of several
minorities, I don't feel compelled to tell you ANYTHING about myself,
and your assumption that people would, just to clear up your
misconceptions, is only one more symptom of what seems to be a belief
that the world revolves around you.  

Roger