From: zgeo0a@hou.amoco.com (Greg Ochab,PSC)
Subject: Re: Messianic Judaism
Reply-To: zgeo0a@hou.amoco.com
Organization: Amoco
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:13:33 GMT

In article 8051@cbnewsl.cb.att.com, saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.143305.20681@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk> ucakrvb@ucl.ac.uk
>(Vijay Bhuchar) writes:
>
>Oy.  Here they come again.
>
>>I just wanted to let you know about a prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27.
>
>thanks for your concern.  Please keep this stuff out of
>soc.culture.jewish.
>
>I'm glad you believe so strongly in your religion.  It is a "good thing."
>However, your religion is hardly Judaism.  The interpretation you point
>to here is simply incorrect from a Jewish perspective.
>
>>Very often the Bible consists of 360 day years.  Under this method I 
>>suggest that the anointed one cut off is Jesus and hence he is the 
>>Jewish Messiah.
>
>You are welcome, as a Christian, to believe that... and anything else you
>want.  It doesn't work for me.
>
>>Elsewhere there is a prophecy about a crucifixion and another which
>>states that the Messiah would die on a Passover - all fulfilled by Jesus.
>
>Nowhere is the Hebrew Bible does it talk about crucifixion.  There is
>discussion of various death penalties, but crucifixion is not one of them.
>Now, I'm sure you can find someone's treanslation that claims crucifixion
>did exist in the Hebrew Bible but if you go back to the original, you will
>see that it simply isn't so.  Your translation is thus shown to be either
>incompetant or purposefully misleading.  Either way, it is of no use to
>Jews or Judaism.
>
>>Jewish writings such as the Talmud confirm that Jesus performed the
>>greatest miracles ever.
>
>This is also false.  I bet you've never even _seen_ a copy of one of the
>books of the Talmud and are doing no more than quoting what one of your
>Christian scholars would like you to believe.  Here's a simple test.  In
>what language is the Talmud written?  Here's another test.  How many
>different people mentioned in the Talmud do the Christians that actually
>have read it think refer to Jesus?
>
>>It is quite clear that the Jewish rejection of Jesus led to a 19 century
>>dispersion and punishment for us Jews.
>
>I agree completely.  Since the beginning of Christianity, Christians
>have demanded that Jews (if not Judaism) accept Jesus as
>savior/messiah.  Because we did not, Christians have been persecuting
>Jews ever since.  This says quite a bit about Christianity - none good
>- and is an additional proof that Jesus could not have been the
>messiah.  After all, we believe that the Messiah needs to come only
>once and that when he does get here there will be peace in the world.
>I don't know about you, but I don't see the world as being particularly
>peaceful these days.
>
>>The purpose of the ingathering is to achieve a mass acceptance of Jesus.
>
>If you say so.  Judasim has other thoughts on the subject.
>
>>I have free booklets for you: Our Messiah in Prophecy & The Future Of Israel
>>so please drop me a line if you want them.
>
>I have no wish for you to abandon your religion and have no wish to
>accept yours.  Rather than waste the stamps, go around behind your
>local grocery store and put the copies you've saved for me in their
>dumpster.  There should be plenty of room even though I'm sure you have
>lots of such material.
>
>If you'd like a concise, well written book explaining why Jews don't
>need Jesus (as if the simple peace question I raised earlier isn't
>enough), I suggest the book "You Take Jesus" which does a more than
>adequate job of explaining a myriad of other reasons your suggestion,
>for Jews, is absurd.
>
>I suggest you turn your missionary work on the Hindus and Moslems.  There
>are more of them and they are more likely to be amenable to whimsical
>religion changes than are Jews.
>
>
>Now please go away.
>-- 
>Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
>	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton


"I have seen these people," the Lord said to Moses, "and they are a
stiff-necked people..."   -Ex. 32:9 (NIV)

---
Gregory E. Ochab, geochab@hou.amoco.com, 312/856-4889
                                                    Standard disclaimer applies.