HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: freek@phil.ruu.nl (Freek Wiedijk)
Subject: Re: Myers-Briggs questions
Organization: Department of Philosophy, University of Utrecht, The Netherlands
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 13:12:35 GMT

drabe@uunet!tellab5!odgate (Daniel Rabe) writes:
>A specific question on J vs P: if a person tends to plan everything
>out and leave nothing to chance (J-behavior), but years for the
>spontaneous and free, i.e. to be more P-like, would you consider
>this person more a J or a P?

I also wondered about this.

There seem to be _three_ kinds of personality involved:

  i  what you _are_
 ii  what you _think_ you are
iii  what you _want_ to be

In Daniel's example, (i) would be "J", but (iii) would be "P".

What does the Myers-Briggs test measure?  Which aspects of a person's
personality _can_ be measured with a questionaire?  Is it conceivable
that all three kinds of personality are different?

Freek
--
Third theory of Phenomenal Dynamics:  The difference between
a symbol and an object is quantitative, not qualitative.
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality,alt.mythology,sci.anthropology,sci.misc,sci.psychology,soc.culture.misc,soc.history,soc.misc
From: stcmille@panix.com (Steve Miller)
Subject: Re: Do Cultures Exhibit a Collective Personality That Changes With Time?
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:20:06 GMT

Anthropology tried this for about, oh, 30 years.  Got pretty sick of it,
too.  
-- 

__________________________________________________________
Steve Miller				stcmille@panix.com
		A Famous Rock Star!
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality,rec.arts.startrek.current
From: YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: Re: Another fun REPOST: Star Trek Characters Personality Analysis
Organization: Yale University
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 15:57:49 EST

In article <rawdon.726435798@cs.wisc.edu>
rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon) writes:
 
>
>In <16B4DEEC4.YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu> YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu writes:
>>   I've argued elsewhere that Kirk in STVI is much more like Picard than
>>most people argue.  We should remember that (according to the series Bibles),
>>Enterprise was Kirk's first command, whereas Picard had 22 years of starship
>>command experience.
>
>The only "bible" I follow is what actually makes it up on screen (since any
>other information can be changed at a whim, e.g., Data being created by
>Noonian Soong instead of aliens, as the first TNG bible said).  And, as far as
>I know, no mention was made of Kirk having or not having a command before the
>Enterprise.
>
    Granted the details can be changed on a whim; but it HAS been shown on
screen that Picard had a long experience commanding starships, while Kirk
came across [granted no explicit references] as a relatively new captain.
Furthermore, if I remember from "Obessession", [which I haven't seen in
almost a decade, so I may certainly be wrong], it wasn't too long ago (ten?
twelve years?) that Jimmy was a lowly lieutenant.
 
>>   As for the literary interest, from my memory, the TOS Kirk didn't have
>>that much of outside interests other than boozing, fighting and sex.
>>(I may be wrong, but the only literary quote I remember Kirk making was
>>in Space Seed "rather rule in Hell" line.)
>
>One would think that would be enough.  How many people do YOU know who can
>quote from Milton?
>
>At any rate, I think Kirk made a few other literary allusions during Classic
>Trek.  I'd have to go look to dig 'em up, though.  (Anyone remember if KIRK
>quoted any Shakespeare in "The Conscience Of The King"?)
>
    Maybe.  Someone posted a reference to _City on the Edge of Forever_ , but
I can't remember one way or the other (shame of shames....)
On the other hand, you don't have to be a literary hotshot to know that
Milton line.  There's references to that line all the time; [Though Khan
did ask Kirk if he had read Milton, Kirk said yes; but that could have
been part of Starfleet Academy req reading on beliefs of "primitive and
paranoid cultures."; after all, he served as planetary scout team member
of primitive planets (e.g. "A Private Little War")  My circumstantial
evidence is merely that the TOS Kirk did not have literature as part of
his life [No obscure quotes, ironic twists] while the movie Kirk (post-
deskjob) made somewhat more obscure and poetic references ["May the
winds be at our backs" References to whales in Trek IV]
   Compare that with Spock, who often made literary references in both
TOS and the movies, with consistency.
 
                                     Junsok Yang
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality,rec.arts.startrek.current
From: SERTEL@ibm.gwdg.de
Subject: Re: Myers-Briggs
Organization: GWDG, Goettingen
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 93 11:30:33 MEZ

Has anyone Myers-Briggs items on file? I would like to check
what it is about. Or does anyone remember in which Journal
and in which article the items (and their coding) is provided?
I consider using that scale among others in class soon.
Suitbert Ertel
SERTEL@DGOGWDG1
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality,comp.misc,sci.psychology,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,comp.security.misc
From: nobody@ctr.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: REPOST of Hacker Personality Characteristics
Organization: J. Random Misconfigured Site
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 13:28:44 GMT
Reply-To: boyd@sunburst.nrl.navy.mil
X-Posted-From: hobbithole.nrl.navy.mil
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Hey Jon,  

As you can see below, I apologized for not knowing the author of this gem.
Of course I haven't the foggiest where I got it...

In article <1993Jan5.002432.7897@netcom.com> noring@netcom.com (Jon 
Noring) writes:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm reposting this article on the personality characteristics of hackers
> since it is an excellent example how personality analysis can explain the
> behavior of certain classes of people (of course, it can also be abused).
> This article also touches upon the MBTI system.  Tammy, did you write 
this?
> It is not clear from your introduction.
> 
> Enjoy.
> 
> Jon Noring
> 
> 
===========================================================================
==
> 
> Subject: Hacker Personality Characteristics :)
> From: usenet@ra.nrl.navy.mil
> 
> 
> For all you INTP/INTJ types out there - here's a little ho-ho.
> Don't know who gets credit for this so I'll apologize now. :)
> 

Tammy Preston Boyd
Naval Research Laboratory
Washington, D.C. 20375
boyd@sunburst.nrl.navy.mil
(202) 767-1624

"calm down.  it's just ones and zeroes."
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
From: mmh0m@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Marina Margaret Heiss)
Subject: Re: Friendship and personality
Followup-To: alt.psychology.personality 
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: alt.psychology.personality 
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:06:01 GMT

In article <1injauINNho5@zephyr.grace.cri.nz> srgcejb@grace.cri.nz writes:
>>Furthermore, although statistically Ss outnumber Ns in our society 
>>(60% vs. 40%), people who pursue psychological studies (and who 
>>develop tests like MBTI) tend overwhelmingly to be Ns.  Hence, there 
>>can predictably be an air of negativity toward Ss when descriptions 
>>of the types are written.  (That is, short-sighted Ns can cast the Ss 
>>in a negative light, and then little objection is raised because for 
>>the most part Ss tend less to pursue and be involved with such 
>>psychological testing.)  
>>
>
>In fact it is worse than this - the MBTI was developed by INFPs and
>a substantial amount of the material written by INFPs.  The impression
>you get from this is that INFP is where it is all at. 
 
I've encountered this from the T-F perspective as well.  I got really
offended the first time I read _Gifts_Differing_, when suddenly while 
Isabel Briggs Myers was discussing the T-F function she went off on what 
I considered a tirade against T's in general.  To summarize, she basically
said that while T's (supposedly) saw themselves as superior because of 
their rational and objective outlook, F's more personal perspectives gave
them a richer inner life than most T's could possibly comprehend.  As an 
NT I'm more comfortable with Kiersey's approach.

>It is common to find that Ss are regarded as "slow" or "underdeveloped"
>...One often written comment is that Ns can simulate being
>an S but Ss can't simulate being an N.  Clearly N is a more developed 
>state of being than S.

I'm not sure I agree with your reasoning here.  The fact that N's can
simulate S's just means that N's tend to have certain traits that S's
don't -- and the reverse is equally true.  "Different" doesn't mean "more
developed".  (I'm also not convinced that a strong N *could* simulate
an S...)

>...SPs appear to have no intelligence at all
>from some N pespectives.
>
>John Bathurst  ISTP

Several years ago I read an article in an MBTI (hardcopy) newsletter called
_The_Type_Reporter_ written by a woman whose bright, creative ISFP daughter
was having a terrible time in high school because she had so many N teachers.

This newsletter is edited by an INFJ, but heavily contributed to by people
from all the types.  It is informal in style, and oriented towards day-to-day
issues. Because of the "real people" emphasis, I've always found it very
balanced in orientation across the types.  If anyone is interested in subscrib-
ing, I can post the address info; if anyone else knows _The_Type_Reporter_ 
and either agrees or disagrees with what I've said about it, I welcome your
feedback.

Marina Heiss (INTJ)
mmh0m@poe.acc.virginia.edu

Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality,comp.misc,sci.psychology,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,comp.security.misc
From: fischer@iesd.auc.dk (Lars Peter Fischer)
Subject: Re: REPOST of Hacker Personality Characteristics
Organization: Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University
	<2809067323@sunburst.nrl.navy.mil> <51010@shamash.cdc.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 03:06:12 GMT


>>>>> "Paul" == Paul Dokas (pbd@runyon.cim.cdc.com)


Paul> The Jargon file is available in ftp.uu.net:/packages/gnu/jargon*
Paul> The New Hacker's Dictionary can be found in the computer section
Paul> of better bookstores.

Paul> [IMHO, TNHD is well worth the ~$12]

Definitely. It's much more fun browsing a book. Heck, the cartoons by
The Great Quux is well worth the price alone.

/Lars
--
Lars Fischer, fischer@iesd.auc.dk | It takes an uncommon mind to think of
CS Dept., Aalborg Univ., DENMARK. | these things.  -- Calvin
From: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
Subject: Re: What are these acronyms?
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:54:35 GMT
Reply-To: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN

In article <1993Jan3.021533.12407@vela.acs.oakland.edu>, 
w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu (Walter Lee) writes:
> ESTJ=Extroverted Sensing Thinking Judge
> ESTP=Extroverted Sensing Thinking Perceptor
> INFP=Introverted Intuitional Feeling Persecutee
                                       ^^^^^^^^^^
> INTJ=Introverted Intuitional Technocratic Judge
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^

  Well, I suppose it would disappoint you if some poor, misunderstood,
self-aggrandizing INFP didn't piss and moan, so ...

  Piss and moan.

  There.  I suppose now I've just proven you right.  Fine.  Someone
should be right, at least sometimes.  I suppose.  I mean, if they
think it's important enough to keep track of.

  Ciaran, definitely not a "J".

------------------------
Ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org                      Not an LM spokesbeing

  "... don't worry about it.  I'm a radical-eco-feminist, so my opinions
        don't count anyway."
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
From: kene@sequent.com (Ken Ewing)
Subject: Re: Friendship and personality
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 19:30:20 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.090044.8296@leland.Stanford.EDU> gsroka@leland.Stanford.EDU (Gregory Sroka) writes:
>
>In article <1993Jan7.181320.20175@sequent.com> kene@sequent.com (Ken Ewing) writes:
>>
>>I know of one 
>>extreme case where a particularly strong NF tended to label as S 
>>anyone whom that person thought was "slow-witted".  (All it took 
>>to be labelled as such was to display a minor habit pattern of 
>>asking for clarification on what this person said.  If you didn't 
>>automatically know, by intuition, what this person meant whenever 
>>this person spoke, you were an S.)  If I hadn't had my MB results 
>>on hand, this person would have labelled me an S (the person told 
>>me so).  
>
>Let me suggest a different way to look at this. Could this person be
>a J?  I tend to think that someone prone to "pre-judgement" like your
>extreme case is making snap decisions with very little information to
>base them on (and a severe mis-understanding of MBTI perhaps). No
>self-respecting NP would make such quick judgements - how could you
>possibly nail down a classification of a person with such little info?

Suggestion noted, but it does not apply to this person.  The person 
in question has taken MB a number of times.  The person consistently 
comes out and ENFP, and consistently "pegs the meter" on all four 
categories.  Your suggestion, though, points out how very difficult 
it is to predict a person's type by interpreting outward behavior.  

May I make a counter suggestion to your suggestion...My experience 
is that NFPs are extremely impulsive.  (I know several NFPs, and when 
I was new to MB I pegged them as SPs because of their impulsiveness.)  
A good friend of mine who is a professional counsellor told me that 
ENFs are especially prone to "presume that others automatically know 
what they're thinking."  Put all this together, and you get someone who:  

  o  is very impulsive, 
  o  is prone to losing patience with people who don't intuitively know 
      what that person is thinking, 
  o  and therefore, one who is not likely to be guided by well-thought-out 
      principals, but rather one who impulsively reacts without stopping to 
      question or to check out first to see if he/she has correctly 
      understood before responding.  

...which exactly describes much of the behavior of the person I'm using 
as an example.  

>As an INTP I can also relate to this.  

I'm an INTP also.  :-)  

  Ken Ewing 
  Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. 
  Beaverton, Oregon 
  kene@sequent.com 
  ...!uunet!sequent!kene
From: billma@utoday.com (Bill Mallon)
Subject: Re: Another fun REPOST: Star Trek Characters Personality Analysis
Reply-To: billma@utoday.com (Bill Mallon)
Organization: CMP Publications, Inc.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 22:38:11 GMT

In article <rawdon.726435798@cs.wisc.edu>, rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu (Michael 
Rawdon) writes:
> >As for the literary interest, from my memory, the TOS Kirk didn't have
> >that much of outside interests other than boozing, fighting and sex.
> >(I may be wrong, but the only literary quote I remember Kirk making was
> >in Space Seed "rather rule in Hell" line.)
> 
> One would think that would be enough.  How many people do YOU know who 
can quote from Milton?
> 
> At any rate, I think Kirk made a few other literary allusions during Classic
> Trek.  I'd have to go look to dig 'em up, though.  (Anyone remember if KIRK
> quoted any Shakespeare in "The Conscience Of The King"?)
> 
Well, there was "All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to sail it by"....

"I am endeavoring, ma'am, to construct a mnemonic memory circuit, using stone knives and bearskins." --Spock
Humble Typesetter
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
From: fbashk@nuscc.nus.sg (Sudhir H Kale (DR))
Subject: National Character
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 02:44:55 GMT

Several people have expressed an interest in the personality of nations.
A lot of work has been done by this by people like Ruth Benedict,
Margaret Mead, and in the last couple of decades by Geert Hofstede.
In fact, national character is defined as the modal personality of a 
country's inhabitants.  In a recent (1992, 1st Quarter) article in the
Journal of International Business Studies, I have established a fairly
solid link between national character and individual personality.  Certain
MBTI types are more suited to certain national characters.  For instance,
introverted feeling perceivers will be more comfortable in the Scandinavian
countries, whereas extroverted thinking judgers will fit better in U.S.
National characters are very robust to change.  They change, if at all, very
slowly (I guess the same logic of change applies as MBTI).

For those who are interested in exploring this further, please write to me
individually, and I'll be delighted to share further my thoughts and research.

Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality,rec.arts.startrek.current
From: YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: Re: Another fun REPOST: Star Trek Characters Personality Analysis
Organization: Yale University
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 16:58:35 EST

In article <rawdon.726261195@cs.wisc.edu>
rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon) writes:
 
>
>In <1icalpINNs68@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com> fritz@fc.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz) writes:
>>Waitaminnit.  I'm no MTBI expert, but...  Jean-Luc and Jimmy (the Stud) Kirk
>>the SAME TYPE!?
>
>>As I perceive them, Kirk is a brash, egotistical, hot-headed, supremely
>>self-confident, impulsive person.  Picard, in contrast, is non-impulsive,
>>more contemplative and philosophical, much more likely to solicit (AND accept)
>>opinions from others, shares the workload and the glory, etc.
>
>Hmmm... I think you've been watching a different show from the one *I've* been
>seeing.  Picard certainly seems rather egotistical to me (probably most
>captains are), and I've certainly seen Kirk solicit and accept opinions from
>others (and, for that matter, give credit where credit is due).
>
>Kirk is certainly more of a take-charge and DO SOMETHING personality, but
>that's just his style of command.
>
>>Can you see Kirk as a passionate student of archaeology, launching into
>>  long and boring discourses about the burial crypts of Tridelta Foo?
>
>Well, I doubt that they'd be BORING. :-)  Kirk is clearly more married to his
>career than Picard is, though he has other interests as well (old sailing
>vessels, for instance).  Both Kirk and Picard have literary interests.
>
>>Can you see Picard as a womanizing, swashbuckling, loose cannon?
>
>In his younger days (c.f., "Samaritan Snare"), yes, I can.  He's clearly
>womanized a little and buckled a swash or two.
>
 
   I've argued elsewhere that Kirk in STVI is much more like Picard than
most people argue.  We should remember that (according to the series Bibles),
Enterprise was Kirk's first command, whereas Picard had 22 years of starship
command experience.
   As for the literary interest, from my memory, the TOS Kirk didn't have
that much of outside interests other than boozing, fighting and sex.
(I may be wrong, but the only literary quote I remember Kirk making was
in Space Seed "rather rule in Hell" line.)  It's only in the movies,
after a long period of desk jobs that Kirk starts being more poetic.
("May the winds be at our backs...." Does anyone know if that's a quote
from some epic poem?)
 
    Junsok Yang
From: cstone@husc8.harvard.edu (christopher stone)
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality,rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Another fun REPOST: Star Trek Characters Personality Analysis
Date: 7 Jan 93 00:40:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1993Jan6.194041.19048
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <16B4DEEC4.YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu> YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu writes:
>In article <rawdon.726261195@cs.wisc.edu>
>rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon) writes:
> 
>>
>>In <1icalpINNs68@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com> fritz@fc.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz) writes:
>>>Waitaminnit.  I'm no MTBI expert, but...  Jean-Luc and Jimmy (the Stud) Kirk
>>>the SAME TYPE!?
>>
>>>As I perceive them, Kirk is a brash, egotistical, hot-headed, supremely
>>>self-confident, impulsive person.  Picard, in contrast, is non-impulsive,
>>>more contemplative and philosophical, much more likely to solicit (AND accept)
>>>opinions from others, shares the workload and the glory, etc.
>>
>>Hmmm... I think you've been watching a different show from the one *I've* been
>>seeing.  Picard certainly seems rather egotistical to me (probably most
>>captains are), and I've certainly seen Kirk solicit and accept opinions from
>>others (and, for that matter, give credit where credit is due).
>>
>>Kirk is certainly more of a take-charge and DO SOMETHING personality, but
>>that's just his style of command.
>>
>>>Can you see Kirk as a passionate student of archaeology, launching into
>>>  long and boring discourses about the burial crypts of Tridelta Foo?
>>
>>Well, I doubt that they'd be BORING. :-)  Kirk is clearly more married to his
>>career than Picard is, though he has other interests as well (old sailing
>>vessels, for instance).  Both Kirk and Picard have literary interests.
>>
>>>Can you see Picard as a womanizing, swashbuckling, loose cannon?
>>
>>In his younger days (c.f., "Samaritan Snare"), yes, I can.  He's clearly
>>womanized a little and buckled a swash or two.
>>
> 
>   I've argued elsewhere that Kirk in STVI is much more like Picard than
>most people argue.  We should remember that (according to the series Bibles),
>Enterprise was Kirk's first command, whereas Picard had 22 years of starship
>command experience.
>   As for the literary interest, from my memory, the TOS Kirk didn't have
>that much of outside interests other than boozing, fighting and sex.
>(I may be wrong, but the only literary quote I remember Kirk making was
>in Space Seed "rather rule in Hell" line.)  It's only in the movies,
>after a long period of desk jobs that Kirk starts being more poetic.
>("May the winds be at our backs...." Does anyone know if that's a quote
>from some epic poem?)
> 
>    Junsok Yang

Ah, but didn't Kirk carry on a discussion about literature (which has not
yet been written :)) with Edith Keeler in "City on the Edge of Forever?"
From: srgcejb@grace.cri.nz
Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality
Subject: Re: Friendship and personality
Date: Fri,  8 Jan 93 22:23:59 GMT
Organization: Industrial Research Ltd., New Zealand.
NNTP-Posting-Host: grv.grace.cri.nz

>Furthermore, although statistically Ss outnumber Ns in our society 
>(60% vs. 40%), people who pursue psychological studies (and who 
>develop tests like MBTI) tend overwhelmingly to be Ns.  Hence, there 
>can predictably be an air of negativity toward Ss when descriptions 
>of the types are written.  (That is, short-sighted Ns can cast the Ss 
>in a negative light, and then little objection is raised because for 
>the most part Ss tend less to pursue and be involved with such 
>psychological testing.)  
>
>After all that, do the Ss in netland feel that they are perhaps 
>"looked down upon" by some/most/all interpreters of MBTI?  I'm curious.  
>

In fact it is worse than this - the MBTI was developed by INFPs and
a substantial amount of the material written by INFPs.  The impression
you get from this is that INFP is where it is all at.  Somewhere I have
seen a theory that there is a development of type with maturity starting 
with "immature" types, particularly ISTP an as one matures, develops 
their N and F functions to finish in old age as a well-balanced INFP.

It is common to find that Ss are regarded as "slow" or "underdeveloped"
by MBTI gurus.  One often written comment is that Ns can simulate being
an S but Ss can't simulate being an N.  Clearly N is a more developed 
state of being than S.

In _Please Understand Me_ there is a development of this sort of logic
where SPs are descibed as _having a *special kind* of intelligence_ -
quite a derogatory statement from NTs who do not in the least understand
where SPs are coming from.  SPs appear to have no intelligence at all
from some N pespectives.

John Bathurst  ISTP

====================================================================== 
srgcejb@grv.grace.cri.nz       or        bathurst_e@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
There is no point in being grown up if we can't be childish sometimes. 
                                                          - The Doctor 
====================================================================== 

Newsgroups: alt.psychology.personality