HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: New handgunner needs advice
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:05:17 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <0ajn8am.tssmith@netcom.com> tssmith@netcom.com (Tim Smith) writes:

}To get some experience, I went to a local indoor range and tried out
}a few rental guns.  ...

}(1)  Hey, this is fun!

Hah!  Hooked another one! (-:

}(2)  I seem to feel more comfortable with a revolver than an auto.
}     Firing either double or single action with the M19 I was pretty
}     accurate for a beginner, but with the 9mm I was all over the place
}     (that was SA). Is this typical of the gun types, or just my
}     inexperience?

The techniques are slightly different and autoloaders take some getting
used to.  I'd expect range rentals to be pretty loose, too.  After most of
a year's practice, I now shoot better with my SIG than with my GP100, but
not much.

}For the bigger gun, the S&W 586/686 seems to get a lot of favorable
}comments in this newsgroup.  I'm going to try a 4" barrel 686 next
}weekend.  Will 4" vs. 6" barrel make much of a difference in feel or
}accuracy?

A good choice.  The extra 2" will make a little difference in accuracy,
but not enough to matter for combat purposes.  What it will do is reduce
muzzle blast and perceived recoil, especially with a full underlug barrel.

Note:  Try to borrow a .357 magnum and shoot some full-house magnum loads
instead of range reloads.  You may be in for a surprise.

}I could get a new 19 for $300.  Is the 686 worth about $120 more?

Amortized over the life of the gun (indefinite, with proper care) I'd say
so.  Your finances may vary.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: larrigan@eeserv.ee.umanitoba.ca (John Larrigan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Colt AR-15/Sporter
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:07:18 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada

shaver@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Bryan Shaver) writes:

#So what are the main differences between the AR-15 and the Sporter?

The sporter has the following differences which greatly reduce its ability
to threaten society.
	- no bayonet lug
	- comes with 5 round magazines
	- has a block pinned in place where the full auto sear would go
	- has different pin sizes for the trigger group so the M16 trigger
	  parts will not fit in it (I am not totally sure about this one)
	- Finally, the name stamped on the lower reciever is "sporter"
	  Nowhere on the gun is the name AR-15.

I think that is it except for the competition model.  Technically I don't 
think Colt ever made a AR-15 competition model, it only came in the Sporter
configuration.  It had the carry handle removed and had an integral weaver 
mount.  The barrel was a 1/9 twist instead of 1/7 and didn't have a chrome 
lining.  I think it came with an accu-wedge also, and the newer ones come
with a carry handle which fits on the weaver mount which allow the use
of the aperature sight.  The first ones were a limited production run and
I don't believe that they came with the extra carry handle.  

John L.
From: wa3wbu!john@uunet.UU.NET (John Gayman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Colt AR-15/Sporter
Date: 29 Aug 92 13:50:22 GMT
Organization: @ WA3WBU, Marysville, PA


In article <24215@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, shaver@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Bryan Shaver) writes:
# 
# In rec.guns, C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
# ##Apparently, the laws passed in the last few years prohibited Colt from
# ##making the AR-15 for sale to civilians within the U.S.
#
# So what are the main differences between the AR-15 and the Sporter?
# 

    The AR-15 is marked "AR-15" on the receiver, the Sporter is marked
 "Sporter". The evil bayonet lug has been milled off on the Sporter.
 The Sporter has a metal block pinned in the lower receiver just above
 the safety selector. In the AR-15 this was just an open "pocket" and
 a drop-in auto-sear could be fitted there if so licensed. The block is
 supposidly to prevent the auto-sear installation (I might note that other
 parts would require changing as well. All of which is subject to NFA).
 Finally, the 5 round magazines supplied have the floor plates rivited
 to prevent removal. Oh, I've also noticed that the rear of the bolt
 carrier has been milled "half-round" the whole way to the rear instead
 of just a section as on the AR-15. I think this is related to the auto-
 sear installation as well. 

    Other than that the rifles are identical. The most significant
 difference is the "Sporter" stamp on the lower receiver. This allows it
 to be sold in places which banned the "AR-15". 



						John


-- 
John Gayman, WA3WBU 
UUCP: uunet!wa3wbu!john
Packet: WA3WBU @ WB3EAH
From: megatest!jliston@decwrl.dec.com (Jim Liston)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Wanted: Pump Shotgun
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:21:25 GMT
Organization: Megatest Corporation, San Jose, Ca


A friend is interested in buying a pump shotgun for around $100 to $150.

Please email me.

- jim -
From: HODGSONT@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Jake Hodgson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Glock Basics and some safety concerns...
Date: 31 Aug 92 12:56:27 GMT
Organization: Queens University at Kingston


 
   Hello Again,
 
    I'm sure this is a FAQ and I apologize in advance for the redundancy, but
I have been looking at Glocks lately (having found out I can buy 3 glocks for
the price of a H&K P7M10) and I was wondering if someone could give me the
low down on the safety system.  I gather that there have been some problems
with it in the past.  Moreover, the idea of a safety based on the concept of
'trust us, it's all internal and it's foolproof'  is abit disconcerting.
 
    Also, I would like to hear about the functionality of Glock pistols.. in
particular the Model 20 with regards to accuracy, reliablity, concealability
and any other *.ability that seems apropos.
 
    Please email responses to me (unless there seems to be a need for this
information to be rebroadcast to the group).  If I get enough info to make it
worthwhile, I'll turn it into some sort of a FAQ reply and send that to our
kindly moderator.
                                               Warm Hearth!
                                                     Jake
 
Jake Hodgson____________________________________________________________
HODGSONT@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA               |  All skill is in vain when
Disclaimer: It must be my doing because |  an angel pisses in the
            THIS bunch won't take       |  touchhole of your musket.
            responsibility for ANYTHING |  -old German proverb
From: webdw@mvutd.att.com (Bruce D Woods)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Canadian point system
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:34:13 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.guns
Organization: AT&T

In article <9208270244.AA20031@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca> keith@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca (Keith de Solla) writes:
#As some people have requested it, here is the new point system to
#be used in Canada to determine the status of a firearm if it is
#not easily classified.  In theory, if a weapon accumulates 50 points
#it may be analyzed to determine whether or not it should be restricted
#or prohibited.  Other factors are also supposed to be considered such
#as availability & use in crime.  Followup to t.p.g or better yet, to
#our Minister of Justice.
#

(Long Gun Sin Scale omitted for brevity)


My condolences to Canadian gun owners!

My son's Ithaca .22 lever action rifle accumulates 60 points
on your government's so-called point system!

Big brother lives - in Ottawa.

BDW
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: CorBon 10mm for sale
Date: 2 Sep 92 01:27:20 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

I have a box of 48 CorBon 10mm, with 150 grain JHP bullets for sale. 
$22 shipped to you.

I'm selling these because I no longer own a 10mm. 

*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 
* for sale: Springfield Armory Factory Comp, 38 Super, +3 mags. All new
* in box (never fired at all).  $650 or best offer over $600 as of Sep 30.
From: PATE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU (BILL PATE, ADMIN. SERVICES, PATE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bullet casting residue
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:02:25 GMT


#BTW, I think I may have had a slight acute lead toxicity episode...
#I was trying my first lead casting with an electric bottom pour
#pot and think I had it too hot (got some yellow powder forming
#on the top).  The next day I had some diarrhea, mild headache,
#sinus discomfort, and generally felt odd/lousy for a couple of days.
#
#What was the yellow powder, lead oxide?  Why did it form?

Your experience sounds like the effects welders experience after
welding or cutting galvanized pipe.  The zinc coating on the metal
leaves a yellow residue and creates a white or yellowish smoke.

I wonder what you had mixed in with the lead? I have never seen tin
cause that yellow residue.
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: tumbler
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:04:56 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <1992Sep1.122003.2613@engage.pko.dec.com>, by towle@vssteg.enet.dec.com (Clark Towle Gunsmith):
# In article <59975@mimsy.umd.edu>, purtilo@cs.umd.edu writes...
# #So, who knows about both rock tumblers and brass tumblers?  I already
# #have a Dillon tumbler for polishing up brass.  My wife wants to do some
# #project concerning rock polishing in the fourth grade class she teaches.
# #Even though my colleagues assure me I have rocks in my head, I do not 
# #know much about polishing stones, etc.  So what's the scoop?  Do I already
# #own what my wife needs? (My guess is not, but it would be nice to find
# #out otherwise before I plunk down more cash on a different unit.)  What
# #different media would I need if the Dillon *is* appropriate?  Thanks 
# #much ---
# 
# 
# [MODERATOR:  As followup .... I got a couple very nice notes from folks who
# basically didn't see why the Dillon couldn't be used, and finally a note
# from someone who pointed out the obvious, i.e., that I should call Dillon to
# ask them.  Did so, and they observed it could be used, would probably get 
# dinged up a bit (but it is, after all, a Dillon and hence guaranteed....),
# but they figured it would take forever to polish rocks in a vibratory unit.
# So it sounds like I may be calling the place suggested above.... Thanks one
# and all for the input.]

I would like to put in a word for Thumbler's Tumblers.  That was
my first brass polisher as well.  Mine came with 2 drums and they
have served me pretty well.  One developed a leak after a fall on
the floor, I don't remember if it "walked" (these things have a
tendency to do this), or I straight out dropped it.  I haven't
used it for a while.  I have a drum of media and stones that I
really should finish one of these years ;-{).  I think my
vibratory polisher is also from these guys.  Sorry I don't have
the address with me.  Let me know if you would like it.  Their
polishers seem to show up at gun shows in Indy on a regular
basis.
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: betz@gozer.idbsu.edu (Andrew Betz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Randy Weaver's defense (was: Why a sawed-off shotgun?)
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:05:25 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.guns
Organization: SigSauer Fan Club


#Clayton Cramer writes:
#This presents an interesting question.

Especially in light of the Randy Weaver case.  He's being charged
for selling sawed-off shotguns to BATF.  Looks like there's a 
ready-made case...This is getting t.p.g.-ish, so let's go
that-a-way.

Drew
--
betz@gozer.idbsu.edu
*** brought into your terminal from the free state of idaho ***
From: th2_oate@csd.brispoly.ac.uk (Tom Oates)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: identifying ammo
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:30:31 GMT
Organization: Bristol Polytechnic, England

Both your cartridges are of NATO manufacture. The cross surrounded
by the circle is the proof of this. 

-- 
*************************************************************************
*  Tom Oates  (Bristol Poly, England)    *   DISCLAIMER:-               *
*  JANET: th2_oate@csd.brispoly.ac.uk    *   I speak only for myself.   *
*************************************************************************
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Stupid shooter tricks
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:38:13 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <11914@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer) writes:
#
#
## They EXPECT and somewhat desire recoil.  They think that it is part of
## the experience and just want to know how to deal with it.  (They know
## that it can be dealt with; men do.)  They're somewhat surprised by how
#
#
#My wife much prefers a 1911A1 to my Browning Hi-Power.  I'm just 
#too much of a wimp.
#

My wife was raised on a 4" Model 19 Smith with 38spl wadcutter loads.
Then she wanted to shoot some magnums.  We kept up on the some loaded
some empty drill and her flinch is nill.  I taught myself to shoot BEFORE
I learned these things.  She then wanted to shoot my 44mag after mastering
the 357.  I warned that this was a man's gun and not for the wimpy.  She 
shot the pants off me.  (She probably should wear them when it comes to
magnums.)  I got vicious.  I would mix powder puff loads with VERY hot
ones to open her group (THIS WAS WAR!!!) they didn't open much.  She
got better at shooting through adversity.  Then.... we went to a couple
of areas where you could try other guns of EXOTIC ilk.  She was bored
with the 44 at frame bending ("Moderator loads").  
		[MODERATOR:  Now cut that out..... ;-) ]
					  	  She tried the 454 Casull
and was in love!!  She got one, from me, as a combined Birthday/Christmas
present.  This was BEFORE "field grade" and it set me back a bit.

I can still beat her on rapid fire and rifle events, but slow fire-magnum,
I am usually dust.  On a trip to ISI for a private lesson with Mickey Fowler
he was doing some shooting with HIS 454 and asked me if I would like to try
it.  I said "no thanks" but my wife doing needlepoint in the card would.
He _was_ impressed.  She picked it up and did quite well.  The custom grips
he had for his Casull were really nice. My wife liked them and that set me
back $200 more.  I've got to stop taking her places!!!!

Bill  	burge@qdeck.com

[MODERATOR:  Check out the last issue of American Rifleman, it has a review
of a handcannon she should like.   I fired one in .308 Win, maybe she can 
get one in .375 Holland & Holland.... ]
From: berenson@cookie.enet.dec.com (If you think software is complex, try relocating!  28-Aug-1992 1620)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: Colt AR-15/Sporter
Date: 29 Aug 92 02:59:13 GMT

There are no federal laws prohibiting the sale of AR-15s by Colt or
anyone else.  SGW/Olympic Arms, Eagle Arms, and Essential Arms are three
companies still selling AR-15s.

The Sporter was both a hedge against future federal action and a solution
to some state gun bans, in particular California's.  Colt AR-15s were
banned in California but the Sporter bypasses that ban (I don't know if a
recent law change covered Sporters as well).  The hedge part was that in
justifying the Bush-ordered semi-auto import ban BATF came up with a set
of criteria to differentiate "good" semi-autos from "bad" semi-autos.
Those criteria were based on such cosmetics as magazine capacity as
shipped from factory, presense of a bayonet lug, pistol grip, etc.  Any
one item did not cause a gun to be declared an "assault weapon", but
having several of these attributes did.

When Colt Firearms was spun off from Colt Industries one of their first
actions was to re-introduce the AR-15.  Colt hedged their bets on the
then very active "assault weapon" legislation by modifying the AR-15 such
that it would meet the BATF definition of a sporting arm suitable for
importation into the U.S.  This became the Sporter.  That way (I assume)
they hoped that if Congress gave the Secretary of the Treasury the power
to ban non-sporting domestic arms the Sporter would survive.

You'll note that all newly imported semi-autos have also been sporterized.
All come with 5 round (aka "hunting legal") magazines.  None have folding
stocks, bayonets or lugs for them, most don't even have their normal
pistol grips.

Essentially, Colt made a very wise business decision.  Yes, they pissed
off people who felt they shouldn't give in to the government.  But,
Colt's priority is its own survival and not to go down in flames
defending our right to keep and bear arms.  Anyway, I happen to believe
the change to the Sporter was the ultimate in thumbing their nose at the
government.  We all get the gun we want while the anti-gunners stew in
the kettle they themselves created (cosmetically defined gun categories).
.............................................................................

Hal Berenson	

Home: 71640.3535@compuserve.com
Work: berenson@cookie.enet.dec.com

-- Disclaimer: Opinions expressed here are my own, not my employer's! If
I happen to communicate with you from work rather than home, its just
for convenience (just like asking for a "daytime phone number") and should
not be construed as representing the views of my employer or its
employees, officers, directors, or stockholders. --
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Chinese Type 63 Rifle
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:08:04 GMT

A dealer friend of mine was showing me some gun magazines from
Australia (his son lives over there and sent them to him).
In one magazine was an ad for the Chinese Type 63 semi-auto
rifle for $495 Australian.

The Type 63 has a one-piece stock like the SKS, but the action
is different and I believe it takes detachable magazines.
If you want to see what it looks like, look in 'Military Small
Arms of the 20th Century.'

Have any of these rifles been imported to the US?  I've never
seen one before.  If so, what's their value?

Rob
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Advice for a first time buyer
Date: 4 Sep 92 16:45:44 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <4edaQ=C00UhB84Rkpz@andrew.cmu.edu> se08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Adam Eliot) writes:
#ME: I'd like to buy a gun because I believe that handling and
#shooting firearms is a skill I should have (and I'd like to aquire
#one before they're made completely illegal).  I plan to practice at
#the range and make a hobby out of it, but self-defense is not
#dismissable as a motivation for buying this handgun.

#I like machines and the such, and therefore would like a gun that I
#can take apart and re-assemble -- a gun that I could get to know well.

I feel the same way, but you need to be a little more carefull about
taking apart a handgun as opposed to other machines (there are some
safety mechanisms you don't want to accidentally mess up...)

#My tentative conclusion is a .38 Special.  probably a swing-cylinder
#revolver. 

I'd suggest a .357 instead: They can fire both .38 _and_ .357, so you
would have all the advantages of a .38, with the added option of 
using .357.

#HER:  She's looking for the security provided by a good self-defense
#gun.  Although reading some of the material I've found for her has
#sparked an enthusiasm beyond defense.  She however has very little
#interest in the inner-workings of things.

#.38 caliber seems appropriate here too.  But for her, the ease of a
#point and shoot semi-automatic might be more approprate.

Except for Glocks, I'm not familiar with "point and shoot" 
semi-automatics: They generally have a slide and external safeties
than need to be operated before firing. If you think she would
prefer a gun with few extra operating details to worry about, I'd
say that is a revolver.

#Again, comments on the gun type and specific makes of that type are requested.

The real question is, how much are you willing to spend?

                                                  Frank Crary
                                                  CU Boulder
From: minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov (Minh Lang)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Recommendation for bullet-proof vest wanted.
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:32:56 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory

Hi, I'm looking for info/comment/recommendation/source for a bullet-proof
vest. It should be thin enough to be worn under normal clothing,
should be able to stop handguns bullet up to .357 magnum and knife.
I would really appreciate any personal experience you have and
I would like to get some recommendations for a manufacturer.
Thank you very much.

+------------------------------------------------------------+
 Minh Lang, Software Engineer  - Jet Propulsion Laboratory
 Instrumentation Systems Group - Instrumentation section 375
 Note:  My employer has nothing to do with what I said here...
+------------------------------------------------------------+
From: rhoten@a.cs.okstate.edu (rhoten r p)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: High numbered Springfields
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:20:09 GMT

We had a recent thread about low numbered (brittle, receivers
can shatter) versus high numbered (better heat treating)
Springfields.  While it was suggested In Hatcher's Notebook
tthat some receivers may have been stamped with high numbers
even though they were not of the better heat treated variety
(in storage or something), a general rule is that numbers
800,000 and higher (from Springfield Armory) are high number.
Well, at the Tulsa gun show last weekend, I saw for sale
what were said to be the first two high numbered ones made.
Indeed, there they were, Springfields numbered 8000,000
(woops, 800,000) and 800,001.  Oh yes, $6000 the pair.  Too
bad I had left my checkbook at home.
r. p. rhoten
From: wa3wbu!john@uunet.UU.NET (John Gayman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Dropping slide on empty chamber
Date: 23 Aug 92 20:37:49 GMT
Organization: @ WA3WBU, Marysville, PA


In article <9208201023.aa24671@sco1.qdeck.com>, burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge) writes:
# The idea is that pulling the trigger causes the disconnector to lower
# and not rub on the slide as it cycles. It also Prevents some jarring action
# of the trigger mechanism.  Alot of this is a holdover from Bullseye shooting
# and fine triggers.  While it should be take to heart, I don't take it to
# extremes.
# 

   If you look at the trigger assy of the 1911 you will see that pulling the
trigger does not "lower" the disconnector. The disconnector moves up and down
under spring tension and the tip rubs on the slide the whole time. It acts
as an interposer between the trigger loop and sear. It "disconnects" the 
trigger loop from the sear when the disconnector is depressed. 


						John



-- 
John Gayman, WA3WBU 
UUCP: uunet!wa3wbu!john
Packet: WA3WBU @ WB3EAH