From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Re: A little on self defense (what should I carry ?)
Date: 9 Oct 92 18:38:48 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Oct8.222727.18432@news.eng.convex.com>, cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) writes:

> "And so you see, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, this mad-dog killer that
> sits before you and who wilfully murdered the poor, disadvantaged victim
> who was searching his house at 3 AM for some edible scraps is a TRAINED
> KILLER. By his own admission, he attended a gun-fighting school run by that
> well-known paranoid, Massad Ayoob--the same Massad Ayoob whom you just
> heard admit has testified on behalf of his students in no less than 387
> shoothing trials THIS YEAR ALONE.
> 
> "Clearly, attending what we can only call "Massad Ayoob's School of Death"
> PROVES BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that the accused was obsessed with guns
> and killing, and was only waiting for a chance to blow away a poor
> disadvantaged individual. Consider how meticulously the accused has kept
> his notes--in a bank safety deposit box, no less. Surely this is an
> indication of an obsessed and paranoid mentality.

I had much the same discussion with someone who actually helps run the
course.  Here was her (his?) response:

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   The other problem (and I guess you must hear this all the time) is: in
   the (unlikely) event that either of us DO ever have recourse to lethal
   force, wouldn't our attendence at a place called "Lethal Force Institute"
   cause us a severe bias problem in court?

No.  I understand the problem; I've always hated LFI's name, myself.  If
your neighbor opened a gun school in his basement in his spare time and
called it Lethal Force Institute, then yes, you'd be in big trouble if you
went there and later had to shoot someone because the prosecutor would
make you out to the jury as some kind of crazed, dangerous Dirty Harry
wannabe.  So why is Mas Ayoob's LFI different?

For starters, Mas is internationally recognized as one of the top trainers
of police and civilians in the use of firearms.  He's built an absolutely
sterling reputation over many, many years, and has the credentials to
prove it.  Gun schools are like other educational institutions; what you
get in your neighborhood is like the community junior college, but there
is an ivy league so small you can count the institutions on one hand, and
LFI is one of them.  This means that if the police and prosecuter you
encounter after your (I'm assuming justifiable) shooting incident don't
already know about LFI, they can easily be educated about it and will
respect your training certificate from there.  There's even a pretty good
chance that Mas taught some of the police in the department you have to
deal with, or that he taught the police instructor who then taught those
cops.

LFI-1 is the only training program I know of that both
a) recognizes that if you are ever involved in a shooting, no matter how
justified, you will have to go through two battles: the incident itself,
and the legal aftermath, AND
b) has a curriculum designed to take this fact into account.  That is,
it teaches you how to fight both battles.

Mas has an amazing amount of experience in the courtroom testifying on
behalf of police and civilians.  He is one of the few instructors in the
country who guarantees, in advance, to testify on behalf of any graduate
of his who is later involved in what he is convinced is a justifiable
shooting.  Much of the LFI-1 curriculum (including the videotapes that are
shown and the notes that you take in class) can be actually brought into
court and shown to the jury, so that they understand the training that you
received (which is exactly the training that many cops receive), which
helps the jury to understand the whole situation.

In short, depsite the name, you can't be BETTER prepared for the legal
aftermath than by taking LFI.

Sorry that got so long-winded, but you raised a very important question
which deserves a full answer.

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If you want to learn about the Institute first hand, send mail to
Lyn Bates (bates@BBN.COM).

-- 

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