HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: paperboy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Chris Chuter)
Subject: Re: TECH: Neural Interfacing
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:56:13 GMT



 Does anyone remember seeing a headband-like apparatus that was used to 
control a balloon on the screen over certain obstacles? I remember seeing this
at a computer store around 1985(?) and I've been trying to track it down for
the last 3 or 4 years. It was sold for the commodore 64 (around $100) and 
I think it could also be played with a joystick.                          

 Why hasn't there been anykind of follow up to this kind of technology - 
was it just a scam or is there no market for it?

-Chris Chuter
From: dekorte@ibm7.scri.fsu.edu (Stephen L. DeKorte)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: TECH: Amiga VR?
Date: 12 Dec 92 02:15:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Dec12.043027.18281
Organization: SCRI
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu



In article <10DEC199201131290@trentu.ca> tsullivan@trentu.ca (The OTHER One True
 God) writes:
>(Steve Pittman) writes...
>>looking around in an Amiga store, and they had an A2000 (I think) set up
>>w/a Video Toaster, etc, and the WHOLE setup was like, $5000...the VT is..

The better part of the hardware in the Video Toaster is for video
work(chromakeying color mapping,etc.) - it's not a board made for VR
(no zbuffer,etc.) So the VT is a bad example of the Amiga's VR
potiential(although an excelent example of the Amiga's multimedia
potiental-the equivilant hardware on other machines would be many
times more expensive).

>  For $5000 you can get a 486-33 with an i860 math coprocessor which will 
>give you as much computing power as your average Cray. 

What's the performance for this 486-33 with i860mc system as far as say,
 gourad shaded polygons/sec? (VR isn't just number-crunching)

SD
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: dream!Marcus_Brodeur@bikini.cis.ufl.edu (Marcus Brodeur)
Subject: Re: SCI: Direct Neural-Electronic Interfacing
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu
Organization: DreamStates BBS & CyberNet HQ in G'ville, FL   1-904-331-4317
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:50:41 GMT



 VV> A little more food for thought on the subject: there exists today
 VV> electrodes that can measure single neurons firing. Ultra small
 VV> electrodes are placed directly over the synapse and detect firing.
 VV> Given enough of these and some sort of neural net to figure out
 VV> what all the firings meant ......

This technology has existed long before today; it is not new.  There are
new techniques for use of it, but one essential problem remains:  do you
have even the vaguest idea *how many* neurons there are in the average
human brain?  It's an ungodly number...saying "given enough of these
[electrodes]" is not reasonable.  And the assumption that even if we could
tap every neuron (or every tenth neuron, or every thousandth neuron, or
every millionth neuron - *none* of which can be done currently), that just
by analyzing the firing patterns we could somehow figure it all out and
slap on direct neural interfacing is more than a bit naive.

Look, again, I must stress I'm not *against* the concept of direct neural
I/O...but it is just not going to be feasible anywhere in the near (or far,
for that matter) future.  Please, do what I have done:  go talk to
neuroscientists...then go talk to electronics people and engineers.  I
don't have to convince you; you'll convince yourself once you have the
facts.

!!!!! T  E   M    P     U      S      F     U    G   I  T !!!!!

-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

* IF replying by MAIL, please reply to one of the addresses listed below...

  Internet: Marcus_Brodeur%dream.uucp@ufl.edu
        or: dream!Marcus_Brodeur@ufl.edu
      UUCP: uflorida!dream!Marcus_Brodeur
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Whistler?"  "I just want...peace on Earth and goodwill towards Man."
"Look, we're the government...we don't DO that sort of thing."  (Sneakers)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: x90sanson@gw.wmich.edu
Subject: YASR: How expensive are Sega Glasses? Where can i get'em??
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu
Organization: Western Michigan University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 09:05:53 GMT


does anybody know the price of the Sega glasses?. Is it worthy??
(...and where to get'em)

Thanks a lot!

Bye

Enrique
From: jet@nas.nasa.gov (J. Eric Townsend)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: TECH: Amiga VR?
Date: 11 Dec 92 20:49:17 GMT
Organization: Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation, NASA Ames
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu


"tsullivan" == The OTHER One True God <tsullivan@trentu.ca> writes:
tsullivan>    For $5000 you can get a 486-33 with an i860 math
tsullivan> coprocessor which will give you as much computing power as
tsullivan> your average Cray. That would be more than enough for any

I can't let this go by.  It's utter nonsense.  I work on i860 based
machines on a daily basis, and a i860 + a cray might be equal to a
cray, but that's about it.  I've seen an application which, when run
on 16 i860s is about the same is a cray-2.

i860s and 486s have all sorts of amazing theorhetical peaks, but
you're *NOT* going to get cray performance of any sort out of a
486/860 pair (much less any other micro).  

This completely ignores issues of bandwidth, memory reference speed,
etc etc...

Any 68040/486/sparc-2/R3000 type machine with a minimal OS and a good
framebuffer should be able to provide reasonable rendering speed for
J. Random User if the code is well written.
--
             J. Eric Townsend --  jet@nas.nasa.gov -- 415.604.4311
              '92 R100R, DoD# 0378, BMWMOA, AMA, ACLU, EFF, CPSR
                                "HotHead Rules!"
From: billwinn@carson.u.washington.edu (William Winn)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: PHIL: VR and RL: Beginning a Philosophical Consortium
Date: 12 Dec 92 05:08:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Dec13.030150.13394
Organization: University of Washington
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu


A philosopher -- one, Bishop Berkeley --
Remarked, metaphysic'lly, darkly,
  'Quite half that we see
   Cannot possible be
And the rest's altogether unlarkly'.
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: jlenarci@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (John Lenarcic)
Subject: WHO: Tom Coull's e-mail address?
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 02:42:23 GMT



A while ago in this newsgroup the e-mail address of SENSE8's Tom Coull
was listed as being either of the following:

                sense8!tom@well.sf.ca.us

                        or

                tom%sense8@well.sf.ca.us

I tried both and they bounced on me. Are there any other variations
of his e-mail address? (The sci.virtual-worlds archive lists his
UUCP address as being well!sense8!tcoull, by the way)

Thanks.

                cheers,
                
                John Lenarcic

                Postal address:
                Department of Software Development,
                Monash University,
                P.O. Box 197,
                Caulfield East, Victoria 3145
                AUSTRALIA

                Fax number: 61-3-5732745

                E-mail address:
                jlenarci@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: martini@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (ok)
Subject: INFO?: mind machines and neural nets
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:40:14 GMT



i was wondering what a mind machine is, or a term something like that..

and could someone give the simple concept of what a neural net is?  i've heard
of using them for this, that and everything else, but dont have quite the
feel for what they *are*..

thanks!
sheilagh
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: foregone@stein.u.washington.edu (Carl Chavez)
Subject: Re: INFO: Amiga PC emulator
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 05:22:33 GMT


In article <1992Dec12.042800.17945@u.washington.edu> dekorte@ibm7.scri.fsu.edu (
Stephen L. DeKorte) writes:
>
>
>>Steve - spittman@nyx.cs.du.edu says :
>>
>>> Plus, you can get a card for (I think...dont' quote me on this) $300 or
>>>so that makes your Amiga act exactly like an IBM...and it's not software,
>
>I've heard of a new card for around $300 that you can put a 386 chip on
>AND mac rom chips on and have an Amiga that can emulate both SIMULTANIOUSLY-
>In other words you can run your Amiga workbench and open a Mac window AND
>open a IBM window.(This could be wrong but this is what I heard)
>If it's out now, you should be able to find an add for it in the latest 
>issue of Amiga World magazine.
>
>SD

This special card is called an Emplant. It sounds very impressive, but I heard
it is riddled with problems. I heard there is an alt.emplant newsgroup, maybe
information on it can be found there.

If the rumors of problems are correct, I would recommend a normal bridgeboard.
They DO run about $300-$700 dollars, depending on chip type and speed.

Also:

Since Commodore released their Amiga 4000 and 1200, the Amiga 3000 looks like
it has been discontinued. An ad from Creative Computers in the latest Amiga
World says, "We've bought Commodore's remaining inventory of A3000's!"
From: chadwell@utkvx3.utk.edu (Chadwell, Leonard)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: TECH: Neural Interfacing
Date: 12 Dec 92 15:45:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Dec13.030227.13564
Organization: University of Tennessee Computing Center
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu


In article <1992Dec12.041658.16932@u.washington.edu>, dstampe@psych.toronto.edu 
(Dave Stampe) writes...

>There seems to be a lot on misinformation about neural connectivity
>going around, so let me add mine (B-{))
> 
>First, let's survey the techniques used so far: the up/down computers with 
>pattern recognition and scalp electrodes, multi-electrode EEG, direct
>cortical contacts, nerve interface chips, and high-resolution NMR.
> 
>The EEG and control computers use measurements from electrodes on the scalp,
>thus average millions (nearly billions!) of neurons' outputs.  This is 
>equivalent to debugging software by putting an AM radio next to your 
>computer keyboard and listening to the noise: it gives you clues but 
>nothing really detailed.  Even arrays of 40 or more electrodes do not
>help too much: they can indicate some underlying mental activity that
>involves large groups of neurons (alerting responses, preparation for
>movement, and so on) but don't show anything really fine.  Basically, the
>"control" systems that try to get simple commands from EEG rely on the
>subject to do something unnatural internally to produce a large enough 
>EEG response for the computer to pick up.  A simple one: blink your eyes.
>You can measure a pulse of alpha waves (10 Hz) in the occipital scalp area.  
>But then this is just 1 bit of information, and physically blinking your
>eyes is much easier to detect.
> 
[stuff deleted]

Sorry, Dave, but L. Pinneo at SRI DID use EEG systems to do cortical wave
pattern matching to qive qualified thought pattern detection.  Running on a PDP
in 1974, and a skull cap with electrodes (no shaving or such required), the 
cursor on screen could be issued 7 commmands by thought:  UP,DOWN,LEFT,RIGHT,
SLOW,FAST,STOP.  The main limitations on the system were the RAM (around 32K)
and the speed of the processor.  The commands were merely thought, and the 
system could accurately recognize the commands on 60% of the people who were
tested on the system, and with modification to pattern matching code, could 
also match those people.  With the progress made in raw computing power and 
memory capacity, more commands could be recognized with greater accuracy.

If ANYONE has contacts with or in Stanford Research Institute, please try to
get this projects information to me.  I have been unable to locate anything
else on this project.  It would be very useful.

CHADWELL@UTKVX.UTK.EDU
From: farrar@pogo.cs.umass.edu (Timothy Farrar)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: INDUSTRY: FLASH! "VPL is dead, long live VPL . . ."
Date: 11 Dec 92 17:37:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Dec12.042203.17413
Organization: /u/zoo2/farrar/.organization
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu



In article <1992Dec10.065400.22599@u.washington.edu> pat@jupiter.risc.rockwell.c
om (Pete Tinker) writes:
>          [...] Pardon the intrusion of a heretic, [etc]
>
>   In response to Marc's message, I answer, "Yes;" I do expect that a
>   scheme that (his words) "requires people to dress up like bug-eyed
>   beings from outer space" will be a long-term success.  The issue is a
>   cost/benefit tradeoff.  There are some applications, such as
>   egocentric evaluation of critical human factors issues, that are
>   important enough that even today's technology is "good enough."
>   Obviously, though, the state of the art prohibits widespread use of VR
>   for many less critical applications.
>
>
>   I don't mean to say that the current state of affairs is good.  Lots
>   of work is needed, and I'd encourage anyone with a novel solution to
>   the "apparatus problem" to stick with it and try anything.  My work
>   has some requirements, though:  
>          * the synthetic environment must be able to replace the
>   physical one, i.e., graphics must not overlay the natural scene unless
>   I want it to
>          * sensors must not require line-of-sight between any elements
>          * sensors should allow free movement inside a large volume
>   (I'm still waiting for this one)
>          * any/all body parts should be monitored
>          * display resolution should be adequate for the information
>   content of the scene (note that this does not mean simply "high
>   resolution)
>
>
>   -- 
>          Pete Tinker (pat@risc.rockwell.com)
>
>          Science Center, Rockwell International Corporation
>          (805) 373-4268



I agree: there are many occupations today that require a certain
amount of intrusive equipment to be worn.  I never felt more like a
"bug-eyed being from outer space" then when I first entered a clean
room :-) I'd much rather slip on goggles and a glove than spend 15
minutes putting rubber gloves and gowns on.  And that's just one
example.  One could also mention SCUBA equipment, motorcycle helmets,
etc. While I do believe that non-intrusive methods are preferable,
until they can meet the requirements that Mr. Tinker enumerated above,
I personally believe that goggles 'n gloves will be successfull.


        Tim Farrar (farrar@cs.umass.edu)

        Now where did I put that stupid .sig....?
From: jmunkki@vipunen.hut.fi (Juri Munkki)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: TECH: parts for Mac interface with PG
Date: 13 Dec 92 19:53:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Dec14.015005.6915
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu


In article <1992Dec11.053439.251@u.washington.edu> bradw@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (
Brad Wyble) writes:
>Can anyone tell me where I can get an MS-232 Line Driver/ Receiver.
>
>I want to build the Mac PG interface and the version I have wants
>lotsa chips.  So if anyone knows where I can get (electronics supply
>warehous for example) or has one or more to sell (why I don't know) or
>knows of a simpler interface design, I would appreciate your reply

If you are thinking of the same PG Mac interface that I am, you might
just as well forget about it. Make sure that the interface you are
going to build/get will support the high resolution mode of the PG.

The PowerGlove is almost useless as an 8-direction joystick.

-- 
  Juri Munkki                                          Windsurf: fast sailing
 jmunkki@hut.fi                                       Macintosh: fast software
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: jnr@panix.com (Josh Rubin)
Subject: Re: TECH: Projection screen with stereo glasses?
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:48:30 GMT


In <1992Dec12.042127.17355@u.washington.edu> battlec@cs.rpi.edu (Clark Battle) w
rites:


>Has anyone tried to use a large (>4ft) projection monitor with the sega
>glasses or some other kind of eye flashing specs?  Is there a hi res projection
>system avaliable for use as a monitor?  If the screen is big enough this
>might be an alternative to true stereo specs.  

I've tried using my 46-inch Hitachi rear-projection unit for
alternating field viewing using LCD glasses.  It's much worse
than direct because the ghosting is so strong, especially
green, for some reason.  The stereo effect practically vanishes.
From: diego@minerva.st.dsi.unimi.it (Diego Montefusco)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: INFO?: VR directional sensor functionality
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:49:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Dec13.030417.14301
Organization: University of Washington
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu


In <9212100948.AA29498@ghost.dsi.unimi.it>, on Dec 9, you wrote:

> From: bellcore!thumper.bellcore.com!pgoudas@uunet.UU.NET
> Subject: INFO?: VR directional sensor functionality
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 92 14:42:48 GMT
> Organization: Morristown Research and Engineering
> 
> 
>         I recently had the pleasure of using the Dactyl Nightmare VR game syst
em
> with a friend of mine.  Ever since I tried this I have been plagued with the
> question, how does the system detect head and hand movements.
>         The hand interface is not a glove, instead it is a gun.

I'm quite sure Virtuality systems use common Polhemus tracking systems.

Diego


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Diego Montefusco                        B E W A R E ! !
  Via Pirano, 4                        PLEASE REPLY ME TO:
  20127 Milano                    montefus@ghost.dsi.unimi.it
    ITALIA                           (not to the account
phone:  +2  27001467                 I'm e-mailing from!)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: diego@minerva.st.dsi.unimi.it (Diego Montefusco)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: INFO: FASA / Battletech info sought
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:53:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Dec13.030427.14355
Organization: University of Washington
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu


In <9212100950.AA29664@ghost.dsi.unimi.it>, on Dec 9, you wrote:

> From: jpc@tauon.ph.unimelb.edu.au (John Costella)
> Subject: INFO: FASA / Battletech info sought
> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 92 12:39:01 EST
> 
> 
> I am seeking contact info for the crowd that creates the Battletech
> amusements. The sci-vw FAQ lists FASA Corporation as trademark owner,
> but no contact info. An e-mail / phone / fax / snail address would be
> most appreciated (/=or, in decreasing order of desirability :).

The folk who developed the Chicago BattleTech Centre are:

Virtual Worlds Entertainment Inc.
1100 West Cermak Street, Suite B404
Chicago, IL 60608
USA

Tel. (312) 243-6515
Fax  (312) 243-7818

Ask for Micholas B. Morris (marketing and PR)


Diego


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Diego Montefusco                        B E W A R E ! !
  Via Pirano, 4                        PLEASE REPLY ME TO:
  20127 Milano                    montefus@ghost.dsi.unimi.it
    ITALIA                           (not to the account
phone:  +2  27001467                 I'm e-mailing from!)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: lishka@dxcern.cern.ch (Christopher Lishka)
Subject: Re: TECH: Amiga VR?
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu
Organization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 10:56:35 GMT


Aren't Amiga computers used as part of the BattleTech simulators and
Virtuality games?  If memory serves, they are coupled with better
graphics cards to handle the faster graphics needed in the game.  I
believe the BattleTech system uses an IBM PC-based network file-server
as well.  I seem to remember articles on both systems saying that the
Amiga was used (a) because it is relatively inexpensive and (b)
because it has a multi-tasking operating system with cheap
inter-process communication.

Does anybody want clarify the above information?  It would be
interesting to know *why* each company chose the Amiga (if the above
is indeed true).

IMHO, the Amiga's multi-tasking operating system and fast IPC would
seem to be a big plus in writing VR applications.  Plus, the Amiga
operating system comes with REXX, which makes it easy to write scripts
and create multi-application "glue" to get different apps talking to
each other and share data (and which is a big improvement over the IBM
PCs scripting language).  Personally, I prefer the Amiga's shell and
file-system over the Mac and IBM PC.  And yes, I *have* used all three
(and indeed have managed both PCs on a Novell network and now Macs on
localtalk and ethenet networks).  Besides being relatively inexpensive
(so are PCs) and having decent fast low-end graphics, the Amiga offers
a very nice programming environment -- which can translate directly to
productivity.

Just my two cents.  It is nice to see an Amiga vs. IBM PC (or any
computer vs. any other) that hasn't yet erupted into a flame war.  A
good discussion of the merits of both machines is well appreciated
(flames are not).

                                                        .oO Chris Oo.

-- 
                                                           Christopher Lishka
 Never drive a car when you're dead...                     PPE Division, CERN
                                -- Tom Waits              lishka@dxcern.cern.ch
                                                             vxaluw::lishka
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: slb96@cc.usu.edu
Subject: YASR: Sega Glasses??  Where??
Originator: hlab@stein.u.washington.edu
Organization: Utah State University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:18:52 GMT


   Yesterday I called Sega and asked for information of the Sega Shutter
Glasses.  To my suprise, they didn't sell them anymore (odd since I called last
month and they did).  I am wondering if anyone knows where else to get a pair. 
Any information would be apprectiated.  Thanks in advance.

slb96@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds