From: bkoike@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Bryce Koike)
Newsgroups: rec.games.design
Subject: Re: Diceless net role playing.
Date: 18 Nov 92 16:27:10 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Nov17.105345.16285@cm.cf.ac.uk> Andrew.Stratton@cm.cf.ac.uk (Andrew F Stratton) writes:
>Since most of the net.rpg discussion seems to be about diced role
>playing, could I open up the discussion for diceless role playing.
>
>Here are some questions :-

	I'm no expert, but according to my roommates, I'm a raving
egomaniac, so that should make up for my lack of experience in the
field (grin)!

>1. Does diceless give more opportunity for misuse by the pcs?

	A responsible GM can make any game system work.  A poor GM
will ruin any system.  Diceless role-playing can open some paths for
bad gaming with a bad GM, but that goes for every RPG I've come
across.  (note that I'm saying RESPONSIBLE -- it doesn't matter how
new or old a GM is to gaming, it's now responsible the GM is about
the job...)
	A good GM can always keep the PCs reigned in...

>2. Does it take longer/shorter to create a diceless character than under
>   traditional systems?

	Name the character generation system and I'd say.
Completley depends on the system involved.  AD&D is one of the
fastest while GURPS is the slowest which I play (and holds the
record, too:  4 hours...).  Neither are diceless, but the RPG system
doesn't matter in this case.

>3. Are there any more diceless games apart from Amber?

	Lots of unofficial ones.  Technically, you could play AD&D
diceless, too....

>4. Are dicelss rpgs suitable for one off games?  Or are they best for
>   campaigns.

	Hardly matters.

>5. Is it easier to `wing it' since npcs are simpler in statistics,
>   though more comples in character.

	I don't ever let the dice rule me.  So techinically I play
diceless when I shouldn't (so shoot me), as well as my friends.  FOr
us, role-playing comes first, the dice second.  (Dice seem to slow
the game down, but if we used strict diceless rules, they might slow
the game down a bit, too.  Whatever.)
	So, it's not necessarily easier or harder.  Dice are useful
if you don't feel like thinking up certain things like, "How SHOULD
Guido the NPC react to the party?" but you don't need dice for that
anyway.

>6. What tips are useful for GMs and players?

	Play the way you want to play and if the system doesn't
work for you, move on to another one.  If the system restricts you,
then it might not be for you.
	Don't let the dice rule you if it's a dice game, and don't
let the lack of dice intimidate you if it's not.  Not too hard, I
hope...

>7. Where do diceless really WIN over dice based rpgs?

	It's a totally different system without dice.
	That's all.  Not really like the difference between Buddhism
and Christianity or something...

>8. Where do diceless really LOSE over dice based rpgs?

	People who like randomization, using dice to determine
whether or not gun shots hit and the like.  Diceless requires more
role-playing and accepting the fact that the system isn't going to
be as incredibly detailed as people might wish.
	If you like the, "Yeah, I've got my nightsight goggles with
autotargeting laser sight attached to my gyro-stabilized fusion
death beam laser....+25 to hit...but the wind's at 5 mph, so that's
+20...." kind of stuff, then diceless won't be for you.  That kind
of detail is sacrificed for role-playing...

>9. Would a net diceless rpg be possible - or would each GM end up
>   producing their own incompatible version?

	No more impossible than a universal net.rpg that satisfies
everyone.  :)

>Just a start,
>  Andy Stratton.

	Mostly, the main difference between the two systems is
philosophy and where the main influence of gaming is expected to
come in from.  For diceless, the main influence MUST come from
players and how they role-play their actions.  For diced, far too
often it's the dice that dictate what happens.  The problem?  If you
want to play a character that's totally unlike you (say you want to
play a slick con man while you are an introverted stutterer), you'll
have more trouble in diceless than you would in a diced game, but
that's life.  Even in diced games I far prefer people who role-play
their character than people who dice-play them.  "Yeah, I'll fast-
talk him into coming with us....3d6....18, I made it!"  <-ick.
	In fact, I often give people automatic successes if they
role-play well and their skill is at a level I think is
"appropriate."  If they're not good at roleplaying certain aspects
of their character, I'll let them get away with at least a
description of what they're saying instead of just, "I use my law
skill to talk my way out of this one."
	(and in the alice in wonderland game i ran once, we almost
ignored dice completely...they just didn't seem to fit.)