From: paulr@fulcrum.oz.au (Paul Rosham)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Subject: Re: Sun's GUI and OS mistakes (was Re: LX and SUNOS 4.x)
Date: 21 Dec 92 00:51:14 GMT
Organization: The Fulcrum Consulting Group

[I can't resist...]
epc1@quads.uchicago.edu (Merlin) writes:

>beaulieu@bose.com (Larry Beaulieu) writes (about OPEN LOOK):
>>
>>	Oh, you mean 'BrokenLook'.

>I wholeheartedly agree with this.  I mean, what is Sun's problem?  No one
>I know uses OpenLook or wants to.

Your prerogative to agree. Sun's problem is marketing its strategy to its'
customers so that they can understand them. How many people do you know,
anyway? A significant proportion of Sun's customer base?

>The last several surveys I've seen
>showed that Motif on Suns are more popular than OpenLook on Suns.

I have seen these, as well. Doesn't matter how much you look at these figures
they neither add up or make any sense. If this fact is applicable in the US,
what a bout the rest of the world, huh?

>We use Motif.

That's your business. Sorry to be cynical :-). Many people think it is fugly.
Many people can't be bothered to go and buy it.

>Our lives would be so much easier if Sun got rid of olwn
>and supported mwm.

Mine wouldn't. I use olvwm. You have a choice in which window manager you
use. I'm glad that you are free to make your choice.

>At least Sun supports X11.  They have some nice
>utilities such as Tooltalk but all in all, Sun's attempts to lead
>the open systems marketplace has really been a failure.

How so. Can you name another vendor that has actually started an Open Systems
marketplace? Anyone else that comes up with products like ToolTalk and NFS
and enables other vendors to ship compatible software. Think carefully.

>SunOS 4.1.3 has nothing wrong with it.

Respectfully, crap.

>Sun's implementation of DNS nonstandard file locations are irritating
>but I'm willing to live with them.

That's nice. Does this make a difference?

>However, having all of their customers switch to System V Unix is ridiculous.
>BSD Unix is popular and well supported.  Why would they want all of their
>customers to switch overnight?  I support change and technological innovation.
>However, going to AT&T Unix is not change for innovation as far as I can
>tell.

BSD Unix is well supported? By who? Popular? How so?
The PC market is dominated by System V vendors. Workstations are dominated by
Sun (SunOS != BSD), and larger systems are very System V'ish. Does anyone
ship a nice BSD/System V merge that they don't have to merge every time? No.
Thats the point of the whole Solaris 2 effort. It's a _merge_.

>Sun's strategy has really made me consider not buying any more Suns.  On
>the other hand, I really like Dec's support of OSF/1.  Maybe I'll
>only buy Alphas until Sun develops some real leadership and understanding
>of the marketplace.

Which marketplace? The real world, or your fictional one? The real world, more
often than not, buys product from vendors that *sell* it to them. The real
world usually respect a company that says clearly what it is doing, and then
does it.

How do you measure leadership? I think it is by comparing sales performance and
growth year to year.

Are you going to have Ultrix, OSF/1 or OpenVMS with your Alpha?

-PaulR.
[The above is not a personal flame, but I still wish people would stop
parading their personal preferences as reality for everyone.]