HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Subject: Re: NetNews Contract? NOT!
Organization: gte
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 22:50:59 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.085156.966@extropia.wimsey.bc.ca>, miron@extropia.wimsey.bc.ca (Miron Cuperman) writes:
> forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:
> 
> >As to the netnews contract: you want to send information to computers
> >all over and get responses back from them: the owners those computers
> >agree to let you send and receive provided that they get certain 
> >distribution rights: we have a freely entered into agreement to
> >exchanges goods(your works) and services(transmission of those
> >works) and sometimes money. 
> 
> The agreement is a figment of your imagination.  The only agreement
> I have is with my feed.

Argument by assertion -- meaningless.  Perhaps you would be so kind
as to tell me what part of the legal definition of a contract is
missing?

The agreement with your feed is one agreement, but part of that 
agreement is to be a part of the net, which is another agreement.

> > This meets the requirements of a 
> >contract, even if you do not realize that you have done so.
> 
> Your figment of imagination does not look like a contract to me.
> My feed is the only entity I have a contract with.  Nobody can
> withdraw my net access except my feed.  If there is a clear
> contractual between me and my feed, I don't see the need to
> imagine some fictitious (and ill-defined) collective contract.

What things look like to you does not constitute law.  There
is a legal defintion of a contract - please tell me where the
arrangement in usenet falls short of being a contract.

Suppose your feed's feed gets shut-off: you have just been 
cut off by someone else.

Perhaps you try looking at reality instead of imagining that the
whole world lets you use their computers because they like you.

> >Part of the fine print of the agreement, or contract, is found in
> >news.announce.newusers. [...]
> 
> Actually, I posted the *real* contract in alt.bizzare.  <sarcasm
> off> Some random person posting to some random newsgroup (like
> news.announce.newusers) does not create a contractual obligation.
> Who gave them the power?  Whom do they represent?

The periodic postings in news.announce.newuser are not random
and neither is the newsgroup.  The newsgroup and the periodic
postings are established to teach new users how to properly
use the net.  

Their power comes from the sysadmins/owners of the machines
on the net -- they are the ones who cancel bogus postings,
pass on the news.announce.newusers contents, etc.

> BTW, why was the distribution set to na?

Beats the cr*p outa me, I didn't do it.

-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda
Newsgroups: alt.culture.usenet,news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
From: miron@extropia.wimsey.bc.ca (Miron Cuperman)
Subject: Re: NetNews Contract? NOT!
Organization: Immortal Freedom's Deck
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 08:51:56 GMT

forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:

>As to the netnews contract: you want to send information to computers
>all over and get responses back from them: the owners those computers
>agree to let you send and receive provided that they get certain 
>distribution rights: we have a freely entered into agreement to
>exchanges goods(your works) and services(transmission of those
>works) and sometimes money. 

The agreement is a figment of your imagination.  The only agreement
I have is with my feed.

> This meets the requirements of a 
>contract, even if you do not realize that you have done so.

Your figment of imagination does not look like a contract to me.
My feed is the only entity I have a contract with.  Nobody can
withdraw my net access except my feed.  If there is a clear
contractual between me and my feed, I don't see the need to
imagine some fictitious (and ill-defined) collective contract.

>Part of the fine print of the agreement, or contract, is found in
>news.announce.newusers. [...]

Actually, I posted the *real* contract in alt.bizzare.  <sarcasm
off> Some random person posting to some random newsgroup (like
news.announce.newusers) does not create a contractual obligation.
Who gave them the power?  Whom do they represent?

BTW, why was the distribution set to na?
-- 
	Miron Cuperman <miron@extropia.wimsey.bc.ca>	(NeXTmail ok)
	AMIX: MCuperman

ImmortalCyberComputingLaissezfaire
Newsgroups: alt.culture.usenet
From: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Subject: [alt.folklore.computers] Re: CyC project
Reply-To: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:25:56 GMT

A repost from alt.folklore.computers:

From: artn@bert.eecs.uic.edu (Ellyn Sandor)
Subject: Re: CyC project
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 18:22:53 GMT

xexeo@dxcern.cern.ch (Geraldo Xexeo) writes:
>A recent issue of Scientific American cited the CyC being done
>at MCC, Austin. The CyC (say 'psych') is a database with currently
>2 Mrules, and its creators say when it arrives 10Mrules it should
>be intelligent.
	I've heard about this too, read the article in a sort of
glossy-ignorant sort of way.  In this same mindset, a few semithoughts
on the subject.
	Does CyC have an e-mail address?  Can we talk CyC@MCC.edu?
Does it post?  (Kibo? Biff?)  Perhaps the creators should publish a
"call for rules" or somesuch, where we could email rules in their format,
for automatic inclusion in the database.  Of course, there is the potential
problem of persons providing false rules and information.  Sort of like
allowing your child to be raised by hundreds of thousands of total strangers
(Steve Martin:  "May I mambo dogface to the bannana patch?).
	Al least letting CyC lurk the net (when it can read) would provide
it with a huge amount of real-world experience, already in machine-readable
form.  Eventually, it can learn to dump GIFs and samples (perhaps we should
vote on how old it should be before it can read alt.binaries.pictures.sex,
etc)
	Although I would not suggest letting the net teach the "good copy"
of CyC, perhaps a "trash copy" could be put on like (sort of the psycho
evil twin...)
	And what about alt.computers.religion?.....

			Stephan Meyers

(insert :-) where appropriate)

-- 
--
Stephan Meyers | artn@uicbert.eecs.uic.edu
(Art)^n Laboratories, inventors of the Stealth Negative PHSCologram
(312) 567-3762
Xref: sparky alt.culture.usenet:703 news.admin:7248 comp.org.eff.talk:5505 misc.legal.computing:2011
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Subject: Re: NetNews Contract?  NOT!
Organization: gte
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 21:03:04 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.140813.3203@engage.pko.dec.com>, "eddf12::roberts"@frais.enet.dec.com (Nigel Roberts) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Aug24.225908.5989@gtephx.UUCP>, forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes...
> > 
[...]
> In the U.K., for example, the key elements of a contract are:
> OFFER,ACCEPTANCE and VALUABLE CONSIDERATION. It _could_ be argued 
> that there is neither offer nor acceptance nor valuable consideration 
> (e,g. money!) here.
> 
> I shan't elaborate, since it's not the purpose of this post to discuss
> British law, but to point out that this and any similar statements CANNOT
> _by definition_ apply to the network as a whole, since the network
> transcends specific jurisdiction.
> 

Offer:  To send your "works" around the world so that many may read what
    you have to say and you may be involved in a world-wide conversation
    on a topic of interest to you.

Acceptance: Reading netnews and responding to a post (this would be de facto
    acceptance)

Valuable Consideration: license to reproduce, content of discussion (shared
    by both parties), fees for connect time (in some cases).

-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda
Newsgroups: alt.culture.usenet
From: abelbeck@tigger.jvnc.net (Lonnie R. Abelbeck)
Subject: Request for USENET "face" definitions
Followup-To: alt.culture.usenet
Organization: Abelbeck Software
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 01:33:24 GMT

Does anyone know where any standard definitions for the USENET "faces" like :>),
;>), etc. and such can be found?

A table of a bunch of faces and their meanings would be great.

Thanks
---------------------------
 Lonnie Abelbeck
 abelbeck@tigger.jvnc.net
---------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.culture.usenet,news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: NetNews Contract? NOT!
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:21:54 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona):
>The fact that the net is not a legal entity does not preclude its
>physical existence nor your desire to be part of it.

But it does preclude the creation of a _legally_ enforceable contract.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
   "Do Rush place weird subliminal backmasked messages in their songs to
 compel unwilling geeks to commit evil .sig atrocities?"  -- Dean Engelhardt
Newsgroups: alt.culture.usenet,news.admin,comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing
From: kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan)
Subject: Re: NetNews Contract? NOT!
Organization: The Rhode Island Internet Systems Cooperative Network
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 05:17:00 GMT

forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:

>Argument by assertion -- meaningless.  Perhaps you would be so kind
>as to tell me what part of the legal definition of a contract is
>missing?

1. Definition of the parties to the contract
2. A "meeting of the minds" between the parties
3. Consideration


>The agreement with your feed is one agreement, but part of that 
>agreement is to be a part of the net, which is another agreement.

Please tell me who I sue when I decide the sue "Usenet".

Furthermore, part of my agreement with the net is that anyone who
reads my messages will pay me $100 per message. Please consult the
NIC database for my mailing address. I will expect to see your
cheque shortly.

Oh, what's that you say? "Unilateral contract"? "Unenforceable"?


>Perhaps you try looking at reality instead of imagining that the
>whole world lets you use their computers because they like you.

Perhaps you should take a law class rather than spew forth from the
mouth. Law of Contracts is an introductory class which most freshman
take.


>The periodic postings in news.announce.newuser are not random
>and neither is the newsgroup.  The newsgroup and the periodic
>postings are established to teach new users how to properly
>use the net.  

And if I decide to either 1) not carry it, or 2) not read it?


>Beats the cr*p outa me, I didn't do it.

Sorta like your understanding of the Net, eh?


MD
-- 
--  Michael P. Deignan                      / Sex is hereditary. If your 
--  Domain: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com            /  parents never had it, chances 
--    UUCP: ...!uunet!rayssd!anomaly!mpd  /   are you won't either...
-- Telebit: +1 401 455 0347              /
From: dab@ism.isc.com (David A. Butterfield)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.usenet
Subject: Re: ARPANET History?
Date: 31 Aug 1992 20:24:25 GMT
Organization: x
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: change

bjones@weber.ucsd.edu (Bruce Jones) writes:
>Does anyone know of a good history of the Arpanet?  Either a chapter
>in a book or a whole book?  If there's no written history, where
>might one go to find out about when it started, and how it spread?

You could try reading the early RFCs.

Imp 1 host 0 was the "A" machine at UCLA.
Charley Kline was the first user of the Arpanet.

-- 
                     Vote for *anybody* but Quayle!
Newsgroups: alt.culture.usenet,comp.infosystems.gopher,news.admin.misc
From: venu@cirrus.com (Venu Nayar)
Subject: Re: Oh No, Mr. Billlllllllll...........!!!!!!!!
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:37:27 GMT

In <1992Aug26.121153.27458@menudo.uh.edu> mece1xg@Elroy.UH.EDU (purna) writes:

>In article <1992Aug25.163611.25017@cirrus.com>, venu@cirrus.com (Venu Nayar) writes:
>>In <1992Aug25.125715.13345@menudo.uh.edu> mece1xg@Elroy.UH.EDU (purna)
>>writes: 
>>
>>>mass pandemonium!  seas boiling!
>>>dogs and cats living together!!!
>>
>>do these phenonmena go together? when you say dogs and cats living together,
>>i would assume you meant them cohabiting in peace. 

>maybe i should clarify some of my humor (boy, doesn't that just ruin
>it though :)).

sorry, purna...i forgot my smileys, but maybe i proved my point?
-- 
Venu Nayar			|		Internet: venu@cirrus.com
Cirrus Logic Inc.		|		(510)-226-2100 X3737 
My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
From: hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Asian indian names
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:14:00 GMT
Reply-To: hira@cme.nist.gov
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology

In article <1992Aug28.162200.9437@nas.nasa.gov>,
raghavan@wk21.nas.nasa.gov (Venkatraman Raghavan) writes:
|>A taiwanese friend of mine told me that when he applied for his passport
|>he randomly chose a christian first name and he has been using it officially 
|>using it ever since.
|>
|>Would such a thing be tolerated in the Indian-american circles? Are would
|>parents be willing to do it for their children? 
|>
|>(I am not raising the question if it is necessary, probably it is not
|>necessary at all. This is not a right or wrong issue. Also I am not
|>talking about inter-cultural marriages )
|>
|>Regards,
|>Raghavan
                           
Well, my real name is Ronil, but being an ABCD I shortened it to Ron.
It was definitely a matter of convenience, but tends to confuse desis 
a bit. Growing up as minority in America, I found that it was one less
thing to be ridiculed about, so IMO the point about names being a factor
in the way people treat you is valid.

I use my full name for official stuff like checks, tax returns, etc.

Anyways, my bro and sister in-law (whose white) had a kid recently and 
named him Sean Colin. Hardly desi hindu. :-)

Ron (or is it Ronil?)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: sidnag@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (siddhartha.nag)
Subject: Re: Ta! Da!The Riff-Raff Arrive
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 03:08:16 GMT


In article <1992Aug24.001726.19973@colorado.edu> paulchem@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Icarus) writes:
>
>   We are not worthy.
>   ------------------
... Hajaar trash deleted

Goddamit. Guess these parasites are omnipresent ; ) (smiley on demand)    
>
>
>"..And you, sir, can climb a ten foot needle and sit on it" -- Monty Python,

"..And on the master raced: behind the hunters chased to where the path
was barred" IA

Sid

Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,soc.culture.indian
From: avik@icase.edu (Avik Banerjee)
Subject: WERE NOT MINORITIES!!!
Keywords: suprise, bullshit
Organization: ICASE/NASA Langley
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 12:22:17 GMT


now i dont know how many of you know this but... why dont i start at the
begining.

the other day i was registering for the fall semester at a university with
a brand new grad school in computer science. while talking to the chairperson
i was told that a: the school recently got some scholarships for grad students
but it was only for minorities adn b: i was not a minority. this is a federal
grant so they have to go by the governments rules and by their rules indians 
are not minorities! i know and you know this is bullshit so if anyone who
might have had this problem before could lead me to some OFFICIAL DOCUMENTATION
(gov. docs) that state otherwise. ive known the dept. chairperson for 5 years
and dont think she would lie to me intentionally. later.

            ___ __    _ ______  __
           /   || |  / /| || | / /
          / /| || | / / | || |/ /
         / / | || |/ /  | || |\ \
        /_/  |_||___/   |_||_| \_\
  		@icase.edu
-----------------------------------------------
|"Only the insane have strength to prosper.   |
| Only those that prosper judge what is sane."|
-----------------------------------------------
From: sguha@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Saumyen Guha)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Asian indian names
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:28:38 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Aug28.162200.9437@nas.nasa.gov> raghavan@wk21.nas.nasa.gov (Venkatraman Raghavan) writes:
>Saumyen Guha writes:
>
>
(Stuff deleated)

>A taiwanese friend of mine told me that when he applied for his passport
>he randomly chose a christian first name and he has been using it officially 
>using it ever since.
>
>Would such a thing be tolerated in the Indian-american circles? Are would
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>parents be willing to do it for their children? 

  This reminds me of an incident in our class at 10th grade. One of my
friend had a very traditional name(namely Vishwamohan) which he did'nt
like. His father was a religious person and named all his childrens
like that. For instance, his sister's name was Yogamaya. Naturally,
none of them liked their names:). As you know, 10th grade exam is
our first board exam. and you get the first officially established
name.  While filling up the form , my friend wrote his name as Bhashkar
Roy. Only a few of us knew about this. O maan, I still remember his
fathers face on the day he got his admit card. It was a defination of 
perfect red.

have fun,
-Saumyen

>
>(I am not raising the question if it is necessary, probably it is not
>necessary at all. This is not a right or wrong issue. Also I am not
>talking about inter-cultural marriages )
>
>Regards,
>Raghavan
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: mba2@Rosie.UH.EDU (D-Poon)
Subject: Re: desi names
Reply-To: mba2@Rosie.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 00:46:41 GMT


In article <1992Sep01.005557.15643@watson.ibm.com>, saeed@watson.ibm.com (Saeed Jaffer) writes:
>To continue this discussion about desi names, do any of you who have somewhat
>of a Hindu background find Muslim names difficult to pronounce and become
>accustomed to?  For some reason, my Muslim upbringing makes it difficult to
>pronounce very hard Hindu names.  Of course, there are many Muslim names that
>are almost impossible to say, but I find the incredible length of some Hindu
>names daunting to say.  I hesitate to call them "Hindu" or "Muslim", but I
>think that's where the differences between the two types of names come down to.
>What about those desis with a Christian background (i.e. Kateri/Mary Anne)? 
>Do some of you find ALL desi names difficult and are used to amrikan ones?
>
I can't say that I find Muslim or Sikh names any more difficult than
Hindu names.  But, I think that has to do with the fact that my parents are
Panjabi.  I was raised here, and don't speak Hindi fluently and have even a 
more difficult time with Punjabi, but as long as the individual pronounces
his/her name for me, I get along fine.  I believe the switching back and forth
is really due to how you grow up.  If your parents/friends speak the language
with you or better yet if you speak the language (Hindi, Urdu, the quote
Sanskrit based languages) I don't think we have a problem

D-Poon
Vaya Con Dios
From: mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu (Pendragon)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Oh No, Mr. Billlllllllll...........!!!!!!!!
Date: 26 Aug 1992 07:22:34 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: monsoon.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug25.175903.9815@samba.oit.unc.edu> Veeramany.Sthanumurthy@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Veeramany Sthanumurthy) writes:

>Now, maybe Manish Vij will find out what things were like in SCIA.
>What, with Purna, Trina and all of Alok's deputies doing double
>time here in ACUA-I!
>
>And of course, welcome back Trina!
>(But, Trina wasn't here when ACUA-I was formed, was she?)

But I thought that's why ACUA-I was formed, to get away from Trina...
wasn't it?

;-)

ObNet: Just went back to school (novell.com is missing from my address)
and we don't get SCIA.  Any traffic there recently?
-- 
                                          /-\o /-()  -- -  --   -
   Manish Vij    ::    '89 EX500          \_/ \\/ )  -- -    --
   mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu                       |/_\  -- -  --   - 
                                                \_/.  .  . . ........
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: bjag@nwu.edu (Bharathi Jagadeesh)
Subject: Re: SCAA & Caucasian
Followup-To: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Organization: Northwestern University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:22:44 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.000807.29051@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>,
baindur@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Satyen G Baindur) wrote:
> 
> In article <5065@dove.nist.gov> hira@cme.nist.gov writes:
> >I've been having a running debate on soc.culture.asian.american (scaa),
> >about the use of the term "caucasian." Most of the people who post there
> >use it as a synonym for "white." I objected to this use since desis are
> >also considered caucasians, and I find their misuse of the word ambiguous
> >and in some cases insulting. 

I don't find the useof the word "caucasian" to mean white at all insulting.
The whole concept of dividing all of the peoples of the world into just
three races was always a really foolish plan and the problem of classifying
Indians as caucasians is just one of the results of that foolish plan. 

> >Please post or email responses.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Ron

Out of a desire to be funny (and I hope you'll take it this way) what else
would we do, other than post or e-mail responses: handwrite mail that we
put postage stamps on and mail to you? hunt down your phone number and call
you up? find your address and arrive at your doorstep? Shout very loud in
the hopes that our voices will carry to wherever you are? Send smoke
signals? Send FAX's? Make videodocumentaries and broadcast them over the
airwaves?

Have any of these things happened to you  8-)

Bharathi Jagadeesh                 bjag@nwu.edu
Xref: sparky alt.culture.us.asian-indian:578 soc.culture.indian:29715