From: bmc@mayo.edu (Bruce Cameron)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: if I were drieuX, I'd have a wiTty heaDer
Date: 17 Apr 92 18:30:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: bmw.1992Apr17.183051.1126
Reply-To: bmc@mayo.edu
Organization: Mayo Biomedical Imaging Resource

In article <4oVaJB2w164w@bluemoon.rn.com>, orson@bluemoon.rn.com (Craig Smith) writes:
|> > "Officer, what are you doing with that turkey baster and that nun?"
|> > "Sonny, we got a report that she was about to let a potential human
|> >  life be menstruated away.  Now, go home, and be sure not to
|> >  masturbate, or we'll nab you for genocide."
|> > 
|> Again, sperm and egg alone are haploid, i.e. have only half the required
|> chromosomes, and cannot be considered human.
|> A fertilized egg, however, has a complete set, and *can* be considered
|> to be such.
|>
 
So, we are to consider living cells that do not have the complete
completment of human chromosomes as something other then human. 
The problem with this is that living beings exhibiting Down's
syndrome or defects such as XXY, will not be considered human 
either.

Also, if the sperm and ova are not human, what are they; 
grapefruit? The situation you describe is where two non-human
cells join to form a human cell iff the result of that union
has 46 chromosomes.

If it is the presence of 46 chromosomes is the factor that
determines the "human-ness" of a being, then it should be possible
to create a human via the addition or subtraction of chromosomes
from the nuclei of a fertilized ova; regardless of the source
of that ova. For example, consider a virus with two chromosomes
(big virus) infects the fertilzed ova of a creature with 
44 chromosomes; does this ova become human when the viral
DNA is incorporated into the existing DNA?

If this cell is something other then human, then it follows
that the presence of 46 chromosomes is not an indicator of
"human-ness". Since there are observable distinctions between
the ova and sperm produced by humans and other species, it is
possible that there is some other factor that determines
"human-ness".

Ah, but these are generic chromosomes, they are not human chromosomes.
Well, if I denucleate a bovine ovum and insert the nuclus from a
fertilized human ovum, is the resultant cell human? Also, what are
we to use as the "human-ness" indicator of a single chromosome? Are
there different different "human-ness" indicators for different 
levels of examination (is "human-ness" fractal)?

Quick recap:
	the sperm & ova are alive (they exhibit cellular respiration)
	human sperm & ova can be identified in vitro &
		without reference to the original source &
		without resulting to the identification or
		counting of chromosomes.
	To create a living being of any species that reproduces
		sexual, requires that the haploid sources
		come from that species.
	live human sperm + live human ovum = live human blastomere

-- 
--Bruce

"The only way you can prove you love God is by loving your
 neighbor, and the only way you can love your neighbor is
 by endless forgiveness".
				Thomas Hopko
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