From: mls@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (mike.siemon)
Subject: Re: I Am Not Judging Homosexuals!!
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 05:17:06 GMT
Summary: sigh

In article <1992Apr9.023301.18568@serval.net.wsu.edu>,
wvanweer@wsuaix.csc.wsu.edu (Wayne VanWeerthuizen) writes:

	stuff even twistier than the other guy's, in a vain
	attempt to justify "Christian" judgmentalism.

> This is utter nonsense, though.  To discern right and wrong is clearly
> a Biblical concept, and even to warn others of their error.

Consider yourself warned.

> When Christ condemned judgement, he condemned the sentencing of others.
> That is to say, somehow punishing the other because of their fault.
> To includes censorship, racism, deprevation of basic rights, ect.

Ah, I see; where exactly is the scriptural citation of "sticks and
stones may break my bones, but pronouncing me condemned isn't judgment"
Hmm????  And I guess by your own statement it is ok to "fault" us poor
homosexuals -- but NOT if you campaign politically to maintain the
civil disabilities we labor under?  I *do* trust that your own church
never, ever attempts to censor or restrict us?  That it would be the
furthest thing from your mind to ever utter a word that might suggest
to the not-entirely-holy youth of your congregations that violence is
deplorable, but after all understandable when confronted with such
"abominations" as you confidently (and oh, so unjudgmentally) call
us?  [Hint to the clueless: Matthew 5:21-22]

> And even at this, though, he never really condemned judging anyway.

Mind boggling.  This has got to be the most twisted reading of scripture
I have ever seen.

> Rather, he taught "judge not, else YOU will be judged."  Which leaves
> the judging to those who have no faults of thier own.

As Bill Cosby used to say in his Noah routine, "Right!"  That means
you, does it?  guffaw.  Very funny; what's your next act?

The point, my dear clueless paragon, is that your judging PRESUMES a
superiority of virtue which you have NO CLAIM to at all  -- do you
honestly think that Jesus' "lest ye be judged" means "go ahead and
judge as long as you are a) faultless or b) commissioned by me through
Peter (or however you read the binding/loosing bit) or c) merely think
you know it all?"  Only the irony impaired could read such words (or
Pauls equivalent in Romans 2) as allowing themselves to judge as long
as THEY are sufficiently self-righteous about the process!  If you are
saying that judgment is to be left to Jesus Christ the Righteous (and
He is the propitiation for sins), then I have no quarrel with the
result of your exegesis (though I think the method stinks) -- but
who else, exactly, do you think is NOT excluded from judging by His
remarks?

And pray tell how this bizarre reading of yours handles the parable
of the wheat and the tares?  I think Jesus was wise to use parables --
people *do* seem to manage to turn even very simple words into their
opposite under the pressure of self-righteousness.

Actually, the logic doesn't do what you want it to anyway.  And the
parallelism here is more suggestive of your initial attempt to limit
judgment to sentencing -- if you condemn, you WILL BE condemned.  If
YOUR word sentences me to Hell, then what does that mean for YOU in
light of Matthew 5:20-26.  "I tell you solemnly you will not get out
till you have paid the last penny."

> And those who by granted authority,
> and merit are in a position to judge,

Granted authority and merit??!!!!!?  Try rereading the whole Sermon on
the Mount and THEN come back to me with this authority and merit crap.

Good grief! where do you think you get that from? the loosing and
binding of sins?  Who grants YOU authority over me?  And what merit
are you granted that I am not?  What *is* this insane desire to
set yourself up as my governor?  

> I do warn you though, the Lord will judge the homosexuals.

Yes; dearie.  So I believe and trust and hope and pray for.  The
Lord judge betwixt thee and me -- and I shall pray for thee, that
the Lord may grant thee His mercy.
-- 
Michael L. Siemon		   "Oh, stand, stand at the window,
					As the tears scald and start;
mls@usl.com			   You shall love your crooked neighbor
standard disclaimer			With your crooked heart."