HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: NEWS: Pavarotti booed out of the SCALA
Date: 15 Dec 92 14:58:43 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1992Dec10.015953.22595@midway.uchicago.edu>, jacquier@gsbux1.uchicago.edu (Eric Jacquier ) writes:
> NEWS:
> It happened on Dec 8, opening of the season at the SCALA
> Conductor: Ricardo Muti
> Pavarotti singing Don Carlo.
> 
> It was the first time in 5 years Pavarotti was singing at La 
> Scala. Newspapers  had been writing about it for weeks. THe
> president of the republic was in the audience. 
> It was the opening of the season.
> Well, he missed a note. His voice did not make it high enough.
> He was copiously booed and jeered by the audience.
> A major disaster.
> His comment outside was: " It's normal to be booed if you
> miss a note"

For what it's worth, the review I read (in the Guardian) said that there was a 
very small coterie of booers who were all but drowned out by the cheerers. The
event was more of a society bash than an ordinary performance; Pavarotti was
being very brave to attempt the role and was by and large exquisite, but
cracked a couple of notes. His soprano partner was less good: the reviewer
seemed to me to be implying that it was more her the audience were booing, not 
him. More serious was the recent revelation that a supposedly `live' concert he
gave in Italy which the BBC had paid thousands to broadcast was actually miming
to a pre-recorded track....
 
-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   For Sale: Posts in British Government. Suit
wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk    |   outgoing American. Highest bids accepted.
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Mahler novice
Date: 15 Dec 92 02:39:45 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

mgn@csd.uu.se (Magnus Nordin) writes:
: I'm curious about Mahler and have decided to start listening to his
: symphonies. My question is: which symphonies to buy and which
: conductor(s)?
: 
: Should I buy a complete cycle or some "basic" subset of the
: symphonies?  
: 
: In the cycle case: Which cycle? I've read good things about the
: Kubelik cycle on DG. This box packs all the symphonies into only 10
: CDs (I think Karajan's is 15 CDs) which is an economical plus. 
: 
: The subset case: Which symphonies to begin with? Is there a typical or
: "a must" set? Which recordings? Simon Rattle (no complete cycle yet, I
: believe) has done very well with what he's recorded so far according
: to the press I've seen. 

Get [.MISC]MAHLER>TXT by anonyumous FTP from camins.camosun.bc.ca for
my overview of many currently available Mahler recordings.

Don't buy a complete cycle by anybody. BTW Karajan only recorded 4, 5,
6, 9 (twice) and Das Lied.

As a start - go and buy the Kubelik 1st, it's really cheap and if you
can't stand this you're probably not going to like Mahler at all.
After that you are on your own - except for my overview.... :-)

--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
From: ray.horton@tfd.gwinnett.com (Ray Horton) 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: why no women composer
Date: 15 Dec 92 11:16:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Fifth Dimension - Louisville, KY - 502-423-8654
Reply-To: ray.horton@tfd.gwinnett.com (Ray Horton) 

MM>Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
MM>From: mikulska@astro.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska)
MM>Subject: Re: why no women composers (was Re: FINAL FINAL THOUGHTS !!
MM>Message-ID: <1992Dec13.135511.2227@Princeton.EDU>
MM>Reply-To: mikulska@astro.princeton.edu (Margaret Mikulska)
MM>Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 13:55:11 GMT

MM>In article <VuLLVB1w165w#cybernet.cse.fau.edu> elmo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu

It's changing almost daily.  In my lifetime (I'm just 40) things have
changed enormously.  In 1970 I knew a female horn player who, after
winning an audition for a regional orchestra had to wait and see if it
was going to be OK with the all-male brass section for her to break the
gender barrier.  The Ney York Phil had a total of two female members in
the 1960s (if I remember correctly).  So from these deplorable conditions
of just 25 years ago we have come quite a way.  Now women conductors
are starting to break through the ranks.  Women composers already have
- Joan Tower and Ellin Taffe Zwilich are among the "hottest" composers
anywhere.  It's not there yet, but it's getting there!

As for the past, there are some efforts to uncover forgotten women
composers.  Here in Louisville we have a group called Ars Femina which
is doing just that in concerts and recordings.
---
 . DeLuxe. 1.25 #12024 . "Ohhhhh, Rob!"
                                                                                        
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Tower records
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 03:44:42 GMT

In article <1gr3tiINNb4s@menudo.uh.edu> chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU writes:
>
>
>Could somebody please e-mail me the 1-800 number for Tower Records?

The number to call is 1-800-555-1212.  This gets you the 800 operator,
who will tell you that the number for Tower is 648-4844.

Roger

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Brahms Symphonies
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:11:07 GMT

In article <chomicki.724092970@antares.cis.ksu.edu.cis.ksu.edu> chomicki@cis.ksu.edu (Jan Chomicki) writes:
>I'd like to solicit opinions about the best performances of Brahms
>Symphonies, both individual symphonies and complete cycles. In particular,
>is the critically acclaimed (according to Stevenson's) cycle by
>Wand worth obtaining? Thank you.
>
>-- 
>Jan Chomicki				Computing and Information Sciences
>chomicki@cis.ksu.edu			234 Nichols Hall
>Phone: (913) 532-6350			Kansas State University
>Fax: (913) 532-7353			Manhattan, KS 66506-2302

1:	Klemperer (EMI), Furtwangler (DG)
2:	no recommendation
3:	Levine (RCA), Furtwangler (DG)
4:	Kleiber (DG), Celibidache (Movimento Musica)


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tony@cns.nyu.edu (Tony Movshon)
Subject: Re: The BEST finale!
Reply-To: tony@cns.nyu.edu
Organization: New York University
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 03:36:30 GMT

In article 279@rulway.LeidenUniv.nl, vosse@ruls41.LeidenUniv.nl (Theo Vosse) writes:
> BTW, is there any finale that simply stops, i.e. does not die away
> and does not reach a climax as well, but which is still worthwhile?

In the category of "unexpected but cool" endings you have to put the Scherzo
of Beethoven's 7th. This movement starts out as if it will be a standard ABA
movement (scherzo, trio, scherzo). Unexpectedly, Beethoven adds another BA
(i.e. the trio is repeated, and the scherzo reappears for a third time). Then,
just to top if off, he pretends to begin the trio for a *third* time (has he
*completely* lost it, folks?), and then chops off the movement with four brisk
chords. Very effective.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
					Tony Movshon

Internet:  movshon@nyu.edu		Howard Hughes Medical Institute
					Center for Neural Science
					New York University
Phone:	   (212) 998-7880		4 Washington Place, room 809
Fax:	   (212) 995-4183		New York, NY 10003
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: torenvl@ecf.toronto.edu (TORENVLIET GERARD LAWRENS)
Subject: Re: Greatest living conductors
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:17:16 GMT

What about Gardiner?

Regards,
Gerard

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Composers who were not keyboard players
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:37:42 GMT

r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith) writes:
: How many non-keyboard-playing composers can we come up with? The one that 
: springs to mind right now is Berlioz, who played guitar.

Nielsen was a violinist (like Sibelius).

--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
From: doron@tavdac.ENET.dec.com (Doron Angel)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Did Debussy wrote a symphony?
Summary: Looking for Debussy symphony.
Date: 11 Dec 92 23:45:37 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

I am looking for Symphony in D Min or by Debussy, (NOT the Duet). Does such a 
symphony exists at all? If yes, is it available on a CD? What is that
manufactur name & CD's number? Where can it be bought from (Telphone will do).
Pls reply by Email, since I do not visit this newsgroup that often.

Thank in advance,

>-doron->

********************************************************************************
|                                                                              |
| Who am I?............................. Doron Angel                           |
| Where am I working?................... Digital Equip. Corp. (SSDU) Israel    |
| What's my phone # ?................... 972-52-593003                         |
| Where am I living?.................... 25B. Bnei Benjamin St. Herzliya ISRAEL|
| What's my phone # at home?............ 972-52-504529                         |
|                                                                              |
***********************************^^^^^^^^^^***********************************
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Various _Goetterdaemmerung_s 
Keywords: Janowski, Karajan, Solti
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:38:45 GMT

I saved this one to comment on because RIchard gave me a little more
to talk about.

In article <1992Dec11.192218.1901@linus.mitre.org>, rwilmer@carrier.mitre.org (R. Wilmer) writes:
> In article <Bz3tMv.HF9@news.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
> >In article <1992Dec10.155514.3888@osf.org> coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
> >>the appearance in the trumpet of the most poignant of the "Waelsung"
> >>themes during the Funeral March (at the point where Wagner directs
> >>that the moon should come out and illuminate the river);
> >

[Jon agrees, and describes Bayreuth staging with Wotan and Bruennhilde
"appearing" during Funeral music]

I really wish people would not do this kind of thing. I assert that
Wagner knew what he was doing when he wrote passages like this
*without* corresponding stage action. I don't have time to elaborate
right now, but if anybody *insists* on arguing...

> 
> I, too, thought that effect was fine and moving.  At Bayreuth, a teenage
> girl (Spanish I think) sitting on my left was overwhelmed,
> sobbing loudly, at that point.  I was not, however, impressed later
> in the act by the ending with all the kids watching television to the
> soaring immolation music.

Argggggh! Words fail me...
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,alt.conspiracy
From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Wagner and Jews?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:14:20 GMT

In article <1992Dec8.204850.26779@cs.ucla.edu> pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce) writes:
>In article <1992Dec8.162014.28573@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec8.074015.8920@cs.ucla.edu> pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce) writes:
>
>Rather, I was suggesting that Wagner may have been so corrupt that
>his works cannot actually edify and uplift, and may eventually cause
>harm.

This is silly. Even if we granted the notion that Wagners opera
libretti were somehow hopelessly corrupted, it would still not follow
that the musical selections themselves were inherently "corrupting,"
especially when performed as orchestral selections. Some of the
musicians most indebted to Wagner were surely not anti-Semites:
Mahler, for example; even Richard Strauss, who while he remained in
Germany during WWII, really did not get along with the Nazis, and
was not trusted by them.

This extreme anti-Wagnerism is, by the way, for some reason that escapes me,
a favorite hobby-horse of the Larouchians. (They themselves leaning
toward anti-Semitism, seems to me they'd find in Wagner a kindred
spirit, but apparently The Master doesn't see it that way.)

>
>Consider an analogy. Millions of men are fascinated by misogynist
>stories and images. (For example, the sexually oriented newsgroups are
>among the most popular on USENET.)

I see. "Sexuality" = "misogynist."  Well, now that we know you're
a member of the sect of Latter Day Puritains, that explains why you fear that
everything exciting might be "corrupting."

-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!


     "Mystical explanations are considered deep. The truth is that
      they are not even superficial."

                   - Friedrich Nietzsche    (The Gay Science: 126)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: IMAGING.CLUB@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Imaging Club")
Subject: New England Conservatory voice master class undergraduates shine
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:42:43 GMT

We were able to go to an Edward Zambara voice master class
at the New England Conservatory the other day, and they
seem to have some excellent undergraduate students on the way.
Particularly impressive was baritone Marcus De Loach.  He
won a national high school competition last year, and
seems to be well on his way at NEC.  He sang Vaughn
Williams' "Bright is the ring of words" and "Ho capito"
from Mozart's Don Giovanni.

Another very enjoyable undergraduate performance was given by
mezzo-soprano Stephanie Houtzeel with "Nun will die Sonn' so
hell aufgehn" from Glueck's Kindertotenlieder, among others.

Michael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com
From: edente@pearl.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Pianists
Date: 16 Dec 92 13:54:15 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA

In article <Bz3sAr.Mnz@unix.amherst.edu>, mbfeld@unix.amherst.edu (A waste of bandwidth originating) writes:
> 
> I want to get some feedback on a thought I've been having...
> 
> Is it my imagination or are we in a time singularly short of good pianists?
> In the last 15 years, we have seen the deaths of Rubinstein, Horowitz, Arrau, 
> Gould, Hungerford (if you know him)... who remains of this quality?
> I have respect for Richter, less for Barenboim, none for Pollini.
> I also think Richard Goode is a hell of a guy...yet none of these people
> seem to really *have it* to the degree of the aforementioned, or to go back 
> earlier, of Lipatti, Schnabel, Cortot, Hoffmann, Busoni, etc...
> 
> Personally, I think the culprit is TV.
> 
> Marlon


There remains of this quality only one: Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli.
I do think you should, however, include in you circle of departed pianists
Emil Gilels as well.
To get back to the living: In a major competition many years ago, the top
three finishers were in this order: Gilels/Moura Lympani (Sp?)/Michelangeli.
While I think competitions are a strange way to evaluate or appreciate
pianists, I note that Lympani is in the company she deserves. Her playing
does recall an earlier era, but she is still recording today, and her
performances remain beautiful and wonderful.
But, again, competition results notwithstanding, to my mind there remains one
mythic figure...Michelangeli.
Ed Dente    
              company she 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jayc@hubcap.clemson.edu (Jay Crawford)
Subject: Looking for Classical Wedding Music
Keywords: wedding music classical
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:46:02 GMT

I'm getting married in June in a small church that has a nice pipe organ.  My
fiance and I would like to open the ceremony with 30 minutes or so of music, 
as well as have the entrance and exit with nontraditional music.  When I say
nontraditional, I mean the standard "wedding music" selections that you always
hear.  The church is Episcopal and has the restriction that the music can be 
classical as long as its sacred, so operas, etc., are out.  I'm looking for 
suggestions for organ music to play prior to the wedding, during the entrance,
during the exit, and any hymns that seem appropriate.  We both enjoy classical
music very much, but aren't too familiar with organ pieces.  Thanks!

-- 
Jay Crawford          
jayc@hubcap.clemson.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,alt.conspiracy
From: hap@scubed.com (Hap Freiberg)
Subject: Re: Wagner and Jews?
Organization: S-CUBED, A Division of Maxwell Labs; San Diego CA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:21:31 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.233933.8225@digi.lonestar.org> gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo) writes:
>
>I have been listening to Wagner's music for years and find
>no trace of anything antisemitic in it.  The judgement of 
>
>Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com)

It's not the music,per se, it's the man and his ideas as 
expressed in his WRITINGS....

Hap
From: gr@st-andrews.ac.uk (Gavin Ramsay)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Too Polite (was Re: news: pavarotti booed out
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:07:37 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: St. Andrews University, Scotland.

In article <1992Dec15.150531.19216@news2.cis.umn.edu> jill@gopher.ccbr.umn.edu (Jill Hollifield) writes:
>I live in Minnesota, "Home of the Obligatory Standing Ovation" (tm).
>I have never been to a concert where there wasn't a SO, whether
>the performance was good, bad, or indifferent.
>
>So, my questions:  Does this happen anywhere else?  And what are *your*
>criteria for a standing ovation?  What has to happen to bring you
>to your feet?
>
>Jill

I've been to a lot of concerts in Edinburgh and London and it is VERY rare for
there to be a SO. The only occasion when i've seen everyone standing was after
a performance of Beethoven 9 conducted by Tennstedt.
gav
From: herb@sybase.com (Herb Lison)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas--Recommendations?
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:47:00 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc.

If you can find it the recording of Sviatoslav Richter's live performance
at Carnegie Hall in the early 60's (an all-Beethoven program) contains
absolutely thrilling performances of a number of pieces, including
Sonatas 3 and 12, and the Appassionata.  The recording quality is not
first-class but that doesn't seem to be important.

Herb Lison
From: ronthal-adam@yale.edu (Adam Ronthal)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: underappreciated composers
Date: 14 Dec 1992 15:00:38 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

In article <1992Dec14.031719.24874@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu> zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski) writes:
>I'd nominate Dvorak as underappreciated?  How often do you hear his Third 
>Symphony?  His Fifth?  Even his Sixth doesn't get played as much as it
>deserves to be.  His Symphonic Variations on an Original Theme, Op. 78?  
>These are wonderful pieces, almost extinct nowadays.
>
>John

Dovorak's 3rd Symphony was one of the first CDs I bought.  It inspired me 
to try all of the other lesser known Dvorak Symphonies and they are truly
wonderful pieces.  So yes, I agree, Dvorak _is_ underappreciated.  As much
as I love the cello Concerto, and the 7th, 8th, and 9th symphonies, other
beautiful works like the Romance for Violin and Orchestra, the Violin 
concerto, and some of the tone poems, like the Noon Witch should be 
performed more often, for they are no less wonderful than the well known 
Dvorak works.

Adam


-- 
   /|\  /|~\   Adam M. Ronthal BR'94    |    ronthal-adam@yale.edu	
  /-| \/ |_/   P.O. Box 607 Yale Stn.   |    ronthal@minerva.cis.yale.edu
 /  |    | \   New Haven, CT   06520    |    ronthal@pop.cis.yale.edu

From: paulz@hprdash.rose.hp.com (Paul Zeman)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:35:13 GMT
Subject: Re: splitting this newsgr
Organization: HP Roseville Site Main Hub
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical


It's fine the way it is.

Just read the subject headings.

Paul Zeman
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: "alexander inglis" <alexander.inglis@canrem.com>
Subject: 78s and quick tempos
Reply-To: "alexander inglis" <alexander.inglis@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 13 Dec 92 16:49:34 EST

RS>This is a longshot, but check to see that the pieces are played on pitch.
  >The actual speed of 78s tended to vary quite a bit and if RCA remastered
  >them at 78 when they were actually recorded somewhat slower, the pieces
  >could seem a little fast.

Not unlike the difficulty in figuring what's the correct framerate for
early silent films. And for hand powered cameras, no playback rate is
going to be consistent.

The settling on 78 rpm standard occurred by the time electricals were on
the market (ie around 1926). The "what-was-the-actual-speed" arguments
tend to apply to pre-1920 stuff. The vocal specialists love to have a
field day with this one.

Alexander Inglis  |  InterNet: alexander.inglis@canrem.com
Toronto,  Canada  |  CompuServe: 70307,20     BIX: ainglis
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: maher@umbc4.umbc.edu (Dr. Michael Maher; ACS (GUEST))
Subject: J.C. Thomas CDs
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:16:51 GMT


Someone recently said they were anxious to hear the new
Nimbus cd of J.>C. Thomas.  You may be a little 
disappointed.  The selection is mostly very familiar
Thomas material, and the first piece, Lindy Lou, is even
from a scratchy recording.  The best singing on the disk
may be My Hero from the Chocolate Soldier, with all the 
lush orchestration of Thomas' Hollywood period.  Nice, but 
not really what Thomas did best.

I don't know how it is that Thomas is now associated almost
solely with the "character" songs he used to close his concerts
and included along with other material on his radio shows.  He
sang almost everything superbly, but was particularly good at 
twwo 
two things: French repertoire and American art songs.  These are 
almost never represented on reissues.  Nimbus includes Sylvia as 
an example of what I would call the American art song of the 
period, Pearl (Gemm 9977) includes a very fine O men from the 
Fields [compare with McCormack's version], and When Children Pray.

The thirties were a golden age of such art songs, as for American
song writing generally, think of Kern, Gershwin et al.  Many 
composers wrote songs specially for Thomas.  If it was a hit, 
such as the Lord's Prayer or Home on the Range, or He's 
got the whole world in His Hands, they might never need to work 
again.  Thomas was also a great patron of women composers, but 
critics at the time thought these American compositions had no
place in serious concert programmming, and for some reason
Thomas' reputation has suffered ever since.

To hear what this man could really do, you must hear his Per
me giunto, Vien Leonora, Zaza piccola Zingara, or his  Valentin
or Escammilio.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical