From: 2huxvalved@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: your respond Mr.Steve
Date: 22 Nov 92 13:51:45 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services


> 
>Saya salah satu orang yg asing di newsgroup yg mengerti bahasa Indonesia,
>dan saya kira saya harus menjawab sedikit di sini.  Lebih baik kalau saya
>menulis bahasa Ingerris supaya pikiran-pikiran saya diterangkan dengan
>lebih jelas...First of all I consider myself to be extremely fond of
>Indonesia-- I am not interested in attacking the people of the country in
>...................

     Thanx if you are indeed fond of my country....or it's just a political
statemant( you know "menyanjung")....God knows!

     Just curious...are you Serb decendent ?

>Nonetheless, I feel conmpelled to speak up for the people of Timor Timur.

     Which people of Timor-Timur? Fretelin...?

>There is a great deal of suppression, oppression, and even torture of
>dissidents which is completely censored by the media in Indonesia itself.
>Many people on this group seem unwilling to accept this.  I can only direct
>you to try and find out as much as possible here from sources which seem to
>you to be as objective as possible.
 
     hmmm....I like to know how you can judge whether a news source is
ogjective or not....please tell me..

     I don't deny that there were and probably are mistreatments in
my country. But you should remember that those mistreatments are
commonly committed by irresponsible individuals. Just like the Rodney
King case......And you should know that we, Indonesians oppose mistreat-
ments (including child abuse, sexual abuse, torturing women.-every 15
seconds...you know what I mean....).

     Aha...cencorship...please don't teach us...my friend....

>   Just this morning on National Public
>Radio, which I consider to be the USA's most unimpeachable news source,
>there was a story about the imprisonment and torture of a leader of the
>resistance in Dili.

     Wrong "asummptiom".....torture? what kind of torture...spanking?

>Menurut saya, jauh berbeda sekali di antara Indonesia dan pemerintah
>Indonesia. This is a critical point, and one that many people have been
>unable to understand in this discussion about Timtim.  I do not, by a long
>shot, approve of all of the United States' foreign policy, but I still love
>my country.
    
    Just your false assumption....so...do you completely understand the
Timor-Timur problem ?  Wow....Wheather you love your country or not, it's
NOT MY BUSINESS!
 
>  To me it is a highly patriotic act to speak when one's
>government is acting wrongly.  When the U.S. acts in objectionable,
>neo-imperialistic ways, I do my best to inform myself about it and to

    Who knows... that in fact you sat and drank beer when the US INVADED 
Panama.....

>educate those around me.  If one does not speak out or opposition to the
>government is suppressed, that is when 
>true dangers begin. 

         Does opposition always brings the TRUTH ?

         Are those around you just (your assumption again) a bunch of
idiots so that they need to be educated..?

>***I should add that I have heard privately (and anonymously) from
>Indonesians who are concerned about the situation in Timtim, but are afraid

     Aha...lagu lama........I'm myself say that Indonesian government
is still improving (still far from being a adil-makmur)
.....you know Indonesia is a young country....be passion, man

>to speak up for fear of government retaliation.***  Please don't think that
>those of us who speak up are out to bash Indonesia.  There may be some
>hot-headed Portuguese who are indeed simply expressing a neo-colonialist
>mentality, but there are others who merely want to see wrongs righted. I am
     
     Retaliation....for what?...if they don't do anything the govt will
not do anything to them too....kalau mereka cari gara-gara....it's
another matter.

     Talking about bashing....who just bashed whom recently in this
country....? Or my country is the next one to be bashed ?

>writing this now not because I hate Indonesia, but because I love the
>country, and I want to see it made better. I have no stake in this other
>than a deep-seated desire to see that human beings are treated humanely. 

     Sanjungan...? lagu lama....but thanx anyway...
     Look at your backyards my friend....who are treated humanly?

....PETS!

     If you indeed love my country...just help us to tell people that
we're not East Timor problem...tell them also about how we lost millions
of people during colonialism time, how we kicked their ___, what we
have contributed to human rights (remember Asia-Afrika conference?) and
freedom,...etc......thanx in advance

>I do value the Indonesian people and their struggle to develop the nation. 
>I also understand fully that Indonesia is an extremely difficult country to
>govern and that at this point to allow Timtim independence would create
>numerous difficulties with other groups, such as the Acehnese, who might
>clamor for greater autonomy.  Nonetheless, you must remember that Timtim

    Which Acehnese ?....I have some Acehnese friends and they consider 
themselves Indonesians....now...I ask you...what is Indonesia ?

>was indeed invaded by the Indonesian armed forces. Most East Timorese do
>not want to be part of Indonesia; they had little say in the events of the
>mid-70's. 

    Are you an American or "Most East Timorese"? 

    Yap...they had little say...because Portuguese left them ILLITERATE

>This is no different than the idea of the "white man's burden" which
>colonialists used last century to justify their actions.
>

     How about now ?

>Again, I have no desire to attack anyone here.  I only ask that those of
>you who are skeptical of what is reported on this group about the problems
>of East Timur try as far as possible to educate yourselves about the
>situation while you are out of Indonesia and have access to uncensored news
>sources.

    Again, I don't have desire to attack anyone here...just to tell you
to examine yourself....kata-kata manis isn't it?


    Mr. Steve,

    There is no question that Fretelin is a marxis party ( read the letter
from Pope to Fretelin leadership ). And just SUPPOSED that East Timorese
didn't ask indonesia to interfere.......there is a point i want to make
here......
 
    The cold war was kind of tense in 1970's....Vietnam just lost to
communist hand....Soviet built its military base in Cam Ranh....just
think or again supposed you were an Indonesian....

    East Timor was in the hand of communist....do you want East Timor
become a Soviet military camp ? A military base in your backyard ?

    Cuba was outside the US...a few hundreds miles from Miami right..?
What did the US do when Soviet Union installed their nuclear weapons
in Cuba.....How old were you during the Pig Bay incident ?

    Indeed my friend, your beloved country and also the Indonesian
people were nervous about the possibility. China was and is communist.
Vietnam was and is communist, too. The US could be beaten really bad
if East Timor fell in the hand of marxis Fretelin.....get it ?

    Remember the Baltics republics who got their independent from
the Soviet Union ? Then they declared democratic goverments....communist
was out!   What HAPPENS NOW ? Communist get their feet BACK ! why ?
If you don't have the answer...go to a tunnel and meditate there..
And do you know how nervous the Capitol Hill people are now...?

    I'm glad if you are not like those people in Human right groups
such as Amnesti International. Do you know what they said about the
etnic cleansing in Bosnia...yeah...AI blamed Bosnia of not giving
good treatment (food) to Serbian prisoners...Isn't that STUPID
statement...?! Bosnia itself needs food....why should they give
the food to the people who attack them ?.....

    my posting can go on and on ...on..on...
but that's all for today.........
   
    oh...ya I let you know a sad story about a friend of mine who is
a Vietnamese American. He is an engineer. He sent a lot of resumes
to many companies. One time he went to meet a representative of a
company. What did she tell my friend ? " We only hire all-American
workers ". And I saw his eyes were wet after telling me that story.
What do you think ?


>Hoping to provide a voice of reason,

 Hoping that you are "sadar" now

I just remember an old saying that was brought by an indonesian in Janus

*** Janganlah kamu merasa bisa ***
*** lebih baik kamu bisa merasa ***
*** dan berusaha untuk selalu bisa ***


>Stephen

  Bagong...the joker