HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cschum@engin.umich.edu (Corey Joseph Schumacher)
Subject: Re: Can boxing skills handle kicking ?
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 13:19:47 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <3567@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>In article <memo.602585@cix.compulink.co.uk> bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>>Maybe not, but the skills learned in clinching can be very valuable
>>in close in fighting.
>
>	I don't think I agree with this:  I _want_ him to clinch, where
>he can't use his fists well but I can make him fall down easily.
>
>> Boxing specialised in a certain set of skills 
>
>	If the Genie of the Martial Arts appeared before me, and informed
>me that I'd won the Martial Arts Digest Sweepestakes, and 1st prize was
>my choice of 1/2 dozen OK kicking techniques or one hell of a left hook,
>*I'd* take the left hook...
>
>
Yeah, but what if the Genie offered you an OK left hook or one hell of
a kicking technique?  :)

Corey
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Boxing and Graeme (was Re: Can boxing skills hand kicking?)
Date: 2 Sep 92 14:44:42 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Sep2.050001.20276@uwm.edu> ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty) writes:

	(Am I the only one who reads 500 line articles? Thanks, Evelyn Wood!)

>I'd be at odds whether you'd be able to get in close enough
>to apply a throw or takedown to a contender or prizefighter.

	Arm's reach is close enough for a takedown or throw.

>Tell me then, what's the theory behind Philadelphia style boxing?
>What's characteristic about Mexican boxers?  Aborigine? (come
>on man, you should know that one.  Most of the world champions
>from Australia were aborigine).  What about LA Southpaw?
>English Bulldog style?  Do you even know the theories behind that
>style?  Did you even know there are various styles of boxing, each
>with their own little quirks and special theory?

	Could you describe some of these?  I'm very interested.
From: dinosaur@cs.su.oz.au (Dino John Ho)
Subject: Re: Rope as a weapon ?
Organization: Basser Department of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 05:39:21 GMT

To: mwong@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Marilyn J Wong)

In article <3840015@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, you write:
  |> Chinese wu-shu uses a rope-dart.  It consists of a rope with a 5 pound
  |> dart (resembling a mutatedly large fishing sinker on it) at the
  |> end of it.  It is considered a flexible weapon and a challenge to learn.
  |> There may be others, but this is all that I know. . . 

Actually there are many other weapons of this type.
These weapons are classified as soft weapons since
they are flexible in nature. The rope-hammer is one
of the weapons most closely related to the rope-dart.

Other weapons using similar techniques to the rope-dart
type weapon, being the nine-section whip chain.

(The rope-dart is not just a wu-shu(performance) weapon but can be
 used very effectively when used correctly)



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  $ $   $                   """    $   $  $
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  $  "o"                       o$"     $  $o" "
  "o      o                 oo$"       $   *"*"$
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           o$  $ $    o$  $o$             """""
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              o   o  $""$ $  $ $""
               """   "  "  ""  "  "


================================================================================
dinosaur@cs.su.oz.au
================================================================================
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Ukidokwan (was Re: Western Boxing, how 'imprecise' is it ?)
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:23:22 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


Kenneth_Ferguson@rand.org (Ken Ferguson) writes...

>      ... I train at the Jet Center and have the
>opportunity to train with THE BEST in all styles of self defense. Everyone 
> from Benny the Jet Urquidez,to Bill 'Super Foot" Wallace have told me that 
> my prior traditional Karate training is very ineffective as far as modern 
> day self defense is concerned.

Thank you very much for your comments, Ken.  

I think there's an everpresent danger of 'throwing the baby out with the
bath water' when we use generic terms like _traditional_karate_training_,
because that means very different things to different people, but I do think
we have similar experiences in this area.   

My only experience with the Jet center is with Benny's tapes, some of
which I thought had some very useful skill drills in them, and with
one gentleman who trained there previously and came to train in Aikido
with me for a short while.  I was probably more impressed with his skills
than he was with Aikido, judging from the fact that he stopped coming
after about a month or two of enthusiastic practice.  However, he was
working as a bouncer or something like that and his primary goal was
to be able to handle rowdy customers without beating them up, and I think
he felt that Aikido training would work for that purpose but would take
to long to learn the neccessary skills, one of the 'archetypal' complaints
about that training.

I have to admit, though, that I didn't get much at all out of Benny's
Ukidokwan book.   Some interesting ideas, and great general advice, but also 
some examples I thought seemed overly complex and elaborate for the situations 
presented.   What was your impression of the stuff in his Ukidokwan book ?
(I don't mean _Training_and_Fighting_Skills_, which I thought was excellent
throughout).

>    Ken Ferguson 1st. Dan Tang Soo Do
>                          1st. Dan Ukidokan

						kind regards,
							todd
From: jxl@stiatl.salestech.com (Jerry Lam)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Wing Chun Books Recommendations
Summary: Beginner needs Wing Chun books
Keywords: wing chun
Date: 25 Aug 92 20:14:13 GMT
Organization: Sales Technologies, Inc.

I have just started taking Wing Chun and would like some
recommendations on books that will give more details on
the philosophy, history, and techniques of Wing Chun.

Please post or email at jxl@salestech.com

Thanx in advance.

JXL
From: diverson@phys.ksu.edu (David Iverson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido, (effectiveness)
Date: 23 Aug 1992 22:22:22 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: bohr.phys.ksu.edu


I'll throw in my two cents, why not.  I'm an Aikidoka of 4 years and I give
up easy almost all of the time.  When I'm working with beginners it's to
help them along, with advanced students working full power it's to avoid
getting killed.  Every time I try to resist a kokyu-nage type thing I
usually smack the mat harder than I would like (and I like to smack the mat
hard to begin with).  I'm simply not going to jeprodize my wrist or elbow by
fighting a full force lock or throw, it's not worth it.  The qualification
is that I'll resist if the person is doing something that's totally
ineffective.

Maybe I'm a wimpy uke, maybe I couldn't throw a wrestler to the ground.  I
just hope that I never find myself in a situation where I throw my entire
weight and speed behind a kotegaishi or nikyo and my uke (or maybe an
attacker) stays firmly planted on the ground. They're going to get hurt, and
hurt bad.  When I'm going fast I fall easy to protect myself.  My
understanding of Judo is that they don't have all the neat little
wrist-snaps, elbow-busts and shoulder-dislocations that Aikido has the
potential for.

diverson@phys.ksu.edu
--
diverson@phys.ksu.edu
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Can boxing skills handle kicking?
Date: 1 Sep 92 22:01:11 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1992Sep1.144754.7929@ms.uky.edu> cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.043055.12413@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cpgrb@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Graeme Bennett) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep1.004654.7355@uwm.edu> ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty) writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>Graeme Bennett writes:
>>
>>
>>>Boxing is an INFIGHTING art.  It's used in close range.
>>
>>Close in, a boxer attempts to clinch or tries uppercuts.  They have few
>>options compared to an MA.
>>
>This is really pretty silly, I think.  WHat is an "MA"?
>Boxing is as much a martial art as, say, kendo.  I have 
>seen people defend judo as a fighting art because one can add the 
>atemi and other goodies left out of sport judo to make it a more
>well-rounded fighting art.  But boxing, as it was practiced before
>M. of Q. rules, included headbutting, eye gouging, the use of the knees
>and a throw or two.  

I wondered when someone was going to bring this up. I recently procured
a fascinating little turn-of-the-century book entitled "How to Box". 
It consists of several chapters written by different authorities. My
personal favorite is the one written by a fellow by the name of 
James J. Corbett (affectionately known to historians of the art by the
nickname "Gentleman Jim"). Chock full of excellent training advice, including
some recommendations on diet, hydration, and proper warmup/cooldown that
could have come straight from modern authorities on conditioning. Also 
lots of good advice on effective use of elbows, etc. and methods for
training same on heavy bags, comments on the differences between bareknuckle
fighting and matches with gloves, etc, etc. Much good advice in a surprisingly 
small package...

>I do not make any claims about the level of sophistication of boxing
>or its completeness as a martial art.  Hell, karate doesn't look
>like much either - all that punch, chop, block, kick - until you
>talk to someone who really understands it.

 Uh huh...

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: NEW MARTIAL ART FOR THE STREET NOT THE DOJO
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 20:42:15 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.200448.8711@pony.Ingres.COM> simutis@Ingres.COM (John Simutis) writes:
>Ouch.  Did you have to shout so much?
>
>I'd be interested in the substance behind the advertising;  I hope
>I mis-interpreted the part about the tapes - you didn't really mean
>one should be able to learn a martial art from tapes alone, did you?
>
>(There is no Greenoch; I know that, and I didn't mention it, either.)

	Henh henh henh...

	-X
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cschum@engin.umich.edu (Corey Joseph Schumacher)
Subject: Re: Different Karate Fists
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 09:47:24 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

Can someone please expain what an 'index finger over' fist is.
I can't figure out what it is for sure, and that's making it
VERY hard to follow these discussions.

Thanks,  Corey
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

Marty,

The only two things that were rather interesting in Brandon's
fight scenes were: he really liked to use those elbows and there
were several fights where there was shin kicking.  I think this is
interesting since these moves aren't really flashy and not really
popular in movies because they aren't flashy. . .

I think the movie worth renting.  (I hated noting that Brandon
managed to have the same clothes on the whole time and didn't
a) kill anyone with his BO and 2) keep the clothes clean!

By the way did you notice that in the pseudo sex scene that
while she was kissing his bare chest in one scene that he had
to remove his shirt when they flopped on to the bed?

Marilyn
mw@hpoemh
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Seoi Nage / Tomoe Nage
Keywords: Judo
Date: 26 Aug 92 19:01:19 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Aug26.074644.5674@rhrk.uni-kl.de> ricks@berkeley.edu writes:
>One problem in throwing Seoi Nage is, that it is not allowed in 
>tournaments to throw with Tori beeing on both knees.

	I think you mean that you can't execute the throw *after*
you've fallen to your knees.  It's perfectly legal to fall to your
knees _during_ the throw:  that's "drop seoi-nage".
							wr
From: achou@plasma.icsl.ucla.edu (Albert Chou)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Can boxing skills handle kicking ? (to anybody)
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:01:02 GMT
Organization: University of California at Los Angeles, EE Dept.

In article <12119@cis.rand.org> Kenneth_Ferguson@rand.org (Ken Ferguson) writes:
>      Al Chou asks ." What is the use in learning Karate?" First of all
>AL,
>There appears to be some people who have taken me out of context.

To keep the record straight, I wanted to make sure that _I_ wasn't taken out
of context either.  What I said in email to Ken was something to the effect
of, "Since you say boxing is so effective, is there any point in learning
karate?" (paraphrasing myself to make my meaning [hopefully] crystal clear).

Al
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst")
Subject: Activist shot at Berkeley Chancellor's home 
Distribution: world
Organization: IE Technical Services Holland
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 23:01:37 +0000


In article <1992Aug29.065519.17970@access.digex.com> cherry@access.digex.com writes:

>
>
>Tear gas; doesnt stop someone from closing a 10 or
>20 foot gap and hacking you apart.  Neither does mace
>(I have been hit with both, and it sucks, but it is
>not disabling).  Machete vs. nightstick is does not
>sound like a lot of fun.  Pardon me if I sit out that
>dance ;-)
>

A few months ago during some inner city troble, I saw a police
officer effectively disarm a six foot two machete wielding
160 lb assailent using an English Police trunction.  I belive
these are somewhat smaller than American Police nightsticks.
I had to admire the move.  I hold dan grades in a number of
martial arts, including some weapon arts, but there was no way
I would have disarmed the attacker without causing major damage.
As it was he had a couple of very nasty bruises and a cracked
shin.

Sorry but using a gun against a machete seems a bit of an
overkill.


Nigel

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nigel Backhurst ( nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk )
c/o 88 Ashburton Road, Hugglescote, Coalville, LE6 2LX, U.K.
p/a IE Technical Services Holland, Deventerstr 150, 7321 CE Apeldoorn
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Shotokan and Shotokai
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:31:19 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <42235@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> tk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tommy Kelly) writes:
>
>I recently bought a book by Shigeru Egami "The Art of Karate-do"  (formerly

Hmmm...my copy's entitled "The HEART of Karate-do"

>called "The Way of Karate Beyond Technique) - which mentions *The* Shotokai.
>
>Also, in Funakoshi's "Karate-Do Nyumon", he mentions "the Japan Karate-Do
>Shotokai".
>
>So now I'm confused.
>
>What is the Karate style "Shotokai", as taught by Sensei Harada?
>
>Is the Shotokai the name of the club in Japan?
>
>I thought that "Shoto" was Funakoshi's pen-name, and that "kan" was "place.

 Pretty much. Some people like to translate "kan" as "establishment".

>Hence Shotokan = Shoto's Place = Funakoshi's Dojo.
>
>So what then is "kai"?

"Association" or "Group"...as in "KyokushinKAI", or Nippon Karatedo KyoKAI,
which is the Japanese name for the JKA.

Shotokai is a distinct organization (and, as you may have observed, a distinct
style) founded by Egami-sensei. It's based on his interpretation of Funakoshi-sensei's
teachings, as opposed to the interpretation of those of his students who founded the
JKA.

Steve
Xref: sparky rec.martial-arts:11647 ca.politics:7283
From: tcox@netcom.com (Thomas Cox)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,ca.politics
Subject: Re: Activist shot at Berkeley Chancellor's home
Date: 1 Sep 92 01:53:49 GMT
Followup-To: ca.politics
Distribution: ca
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

I wanted to make sure this got in to ca.politics.  Hey, all you second
guessers who said "the cop was wrong" -- looks like *you* were too fast
on the draw.

robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:
> cherry@access.digex.com (Cherry Poptart) writes:

>>If either party decides to attack, then the 
>>other party has no choice.  For all of the people
>>who were saying that someone with a knife can 
>>get you if they are within 20 or so feet, how do 
>>you feel about someone with a machete at 10 feet?

>Actually, it appears to have been even worse than that.  From today's
>Daily Californian:
>
>  "The first officer to arrive on the scene, UC police Sgt. Mitchell
>   Celaya, spotted Denovo through a first-floor window and, at
>   gunpoint, ordered her twice to drop the 18-inch machete and 6-inch
>   hunting knife she held in her hand, [U.C. Police Lt. Pat] Carrol
>   said.

>   Although she dropped the knife, Carroll said, Denovo brandished the
>   machete in a ``combative strike position,'' staring defiantly at
>   Celaya.

>   Additional Berkeley and Oakland police units then arrived on the
>   scene.  The plan was to find Denovo with the help of an Oakland
>   police K-9 unit and demand her surrender.  If she refused, Oakland
>   police were prepared to disarm her with a stun gun.

>   However, police said Denovo forced the situation when she attacked
>   Oakland police Officer Craig Chew in a cramped, second-floor bathroom.

>   As Chew tried to open a door from the bathroom into an adjoining
>   bedroom to allow his dog to sniff for the intruder, Denovo yanked
>   the door open from inside the bedroom and swung at Chew with the
>   machete, Carrol said.

>   According to police, Chew fell back as Denovo swung a second time.
>   As he fell partly into a bathtub, Chew fired at Denovo four times,
>   mortally wounding her."

>So, if this account is accurate, it was the cop, not Denovo, who was
>cornered.

>And I'm sure that what was going through his mind when the door yanked
>open was not some mushin aikidoka sword-taking response, but rather all
>those paranoid bang-you're-dead scenarios they teach at cop school.

Tom
-- 
Tom Cox      DoD #1776   '91 CB 750 Nighthawk   tcox@netcom.netcom.com
 This note is my exercise of my First Amendment right to make a fool of
 myself in public.  I do not speak for anyone but myself.  Ever.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: goodwin@orionsci (Ben Goodwin)
Subject: Re: Getting Involved
Reply-To: goodwin@orionsci.UUCP (Ben Goodwin)
Organization: Orion Scientific, Inc.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 02:49:01 GMT

In article <1992Aug24.185719.6036@sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:
>
>This story is amazing and apparently typical.  It makes me not care as much
>about spousal abuse as I would otherwise.  I have heard of so many cases where

You should really rethink the above statement.  That is pretty low. 
I hope you didn't mean what you said.

And as for interrupting a domestic dispute with a weapon or barehanded, I can
honestly say that I would never do it.  I would help someone being robbed,
help the man having a cardiac arrest, but would call the police on the
domestic dispute and maybe bang on the door informing the couple of what I
had done and then I would run like Hell.

Wharfie got lucky.  He was IMHO (sorry Wharfie) acting foolish.  He could
have killed or been killed.  Think about that next time you try to play
hero. You and I are not qualified to deal with a domestic dispute. (Period)
Its a nowin situation.  Leave it to the pros.  All MHO.
-- 

-Ben
From: mh4e@resumix.portal.com (Michael Heiler)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Different Karate Fist
Keywords: from Aaron Emigh:
Date: 29 Aug 92 00:58:54 GMT
Reply-To: mh4e@resumix.portal.com
Organization: Resumix, Inc., Santa Clara, CA

> The ippon ken I've seen generally have a more radical angle on the
> innermost knuckle of the index finger -- almost 90 degrees.  I've been
> unable to develop much confidence using that form.  Since it's not
> something used in any style I've studied, I may simply have been doing
> it incorrectly. 

Although ipponken can be used as a power strike like a seiken strike,
it is generally more effective for striking pressure points and the like,
where you want to concentrate the force to a small area. In such cases
the seiken strike would be less effective. I believe David White made 
passing mention to this a couple of posts back. Try the stike in that
application, your confidence in it might increase.

- Mike Heiler
From: achou@plasma.icsl.ucla.edu (Albert Chou)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fencing
Date: 30 Aug 92 13:19:58 GMT
Organization: University of California at Los Angeles, EE Dept.

In article <1865@celia.UUCP> celia!doug@usc.edu (Doug Nichols) writes:
>	-fencing -vs- SCA, pros/cons

I'm game for this one, but I don't know anything about the SCA except what
I've heard.  Exactly what did you mean by "fencing 'vs.' SCA"?

Al
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552)
Subject: Re: Fencing
Organization: just me
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 14:00:53 GMT
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts

In article <7852@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> achou@plasma.icsl.ucla.edu (Albert Chou) writes:
>I had the opportunity to fence again for the first time in 6-1/2 years, at
>a Renaissance festival this past weekend.  I chose to fence one of
>"Her Majesty's Officers" rather than one of my friends (I thought it would
>be a lot more interesting, given that my friends don't know how to fence).
>It was an eye-opening experience, as I was fencing in the standard sport style,
>while the leftenant showed his versatility -- side stepping that wouldn't
>be allowed on a strip, ambidexterity, and an interesting cross-legged-looking
>stance that I'd never seen before.
>
>Never having fenced in even a pseudo-martial-arts setting before, I felt the
>bout gave at least a hint of the real thing.  Not the flashy swordplay you
>see in the movies, but some realistic techniques that aren't allowed in the
>sport version.

A popular form of practice up until the late 19th century or so was to
put the fencers inside a 20 foot diameter circle.  Step out and lose.  You
can practice  single or double weapons, and can strike anywhere except
groin and back of head or knees.  Capes with a weighted sash are often used
with a main-gauche to provide added protection, although a large wide-brimmed
(Cavalier) hat works well too.  Some schools would allow grappling, although
obviously care must be taken.

We did this without grappling in college.  Great fun.
>
>And BTW, I was happy about the score:  I lost, but the score was 3 touches to 2.
>
>Al

	David Pipes
robear@digex.com
From: perry@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Tai Chi help
Date: 1 Sep 92 16:09:37 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

T'ai Chi Ch'uan students and teachers:

	Everyone here warns of the countless, low-quality, profit-only
martial art books & videos out on the market.

	Could someone point me to some high-quality, benefit-to-society
books & videos to supplement my Tai Chi training?  I am not interested in
sticking to a particular style, since the reading will be mostly academic.

	Thank you in advance for any help.

Perry

perry@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
perry@drycas.bitnet