HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chedley@carthago.intel.com (CHEDLEY_AOURIRI)
Newsgroups: misc.invest,sci.econ
Subject: Re: Should we limit the shorts life time.
Date: 26 Jul 92 19:28:59 GMT
Reply-To: chedley@carthago.intel.com (CHEDLEY_AOURIRI)
Followup-To: misc.invest
Organization: Intel-Corp,_Hillsboro,_Oregon

In article <1992Jul26.004109.21389@tfs.com>, eric@tfs.com (Eric Smith) writes:
>...
>As a general rule, selling any stock short is a sucker bet, unless you
>have inside information, which might be illegal.
>...

So is buying a stock!!! It is a "bigger sucker's bet" :-)

OK, fellas, let's put some sense in this discussion on shorting.

When you buy a stock, you are explicitly or implicitly betting 
that its price will go up sometime in the future.
If, for whatever reason, you expect a stock's price to go down, you 
can take the opposite bet of shorting. That is borrowing some 
shares, selling them, then buying them later when the price 
drops to cover your short (ie. return the shares to the lender). 

Note that short sellers do NOT create new shares, they borrow 
existing shares IF they can find a willing lender!!!

Let's not get over excited by news that Mr X or Ms Y is short a huge
amount of shares on a company's stock.

As most astute investors know, you want always to balance your portfolio.
That is, you go long (buy) the stocks that you think are under-priced, 
and you go short those which are over-priced and due for a down correction
in your opinion.

Also, many stock investors practice dynamic hedging: for example,
they buy long some shares of a company, and short the shares of a 
competitor's whom they think is weakening.

And finally, let's not forget the shorts-against-the-box: 
instead of selling shares, some investors short a stock they 
already own, in a legal tax maneuver to dodge the IRS !!.

So, when you hear that Mr. Perot is short $1 Million on Citibank,
do not jump to conclusions too quickly...

..CHEDLEY..
-- 
..!{uunet|tektronix|ogicse}!littlei!chedley    chedley@carthago.intel.com     
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Standard Disclaim: The above statements and opinions are strictly mine,
and do not represent any company or organization's position.
......................................................................
From: rmackenz@wtcd.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Robert Mackenzie)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Drops in Stock Prices
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:23:18 GMT
Reply-To: rmackenz@wtcd.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Robert Mackenzie)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Corporate Publications Services - Dayton, OH

I have a small number of shares of Adobe Systems stock.  The price on this
stock is pretty volatile, as it always seems to be changing a few points.
Recently it has been going down, down, down.  Adobe must have put out some
bad news.  My question is: How does one get in on that news (good or bad)
to dump the stock early, in this caser?  I almost never see anything in
the paper about Adobe, but sombody sure found out.  By the time I become
aware, the stock has dropped a long way.

So, I guess the question really is: How does one obtain current information
about a specific stock in time to make a smart move.

Thanks, 
Bob

-- 
Robert Mackenzie
Corporate Publications Services
Robert.Mackenzie@wtcd.DaytonOH.NCR.COM
...!uunet!ncrcom!wtcp!wtcd!rmackenz
From: bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: General Dynamics common stock
Keywords: P/E, stock buyback
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:16:29 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, Arizona

In article <1992Jul29.192353.27386@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com> cs6@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Eric Sit 3611) writes:
>In article <12543@inews.intel.com> bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) writes:
>>Just because the company owns the shares doesn't mean
>>the stock isn't outstanding.
>
>I recently read a book on the basic principles of accounting.  
>According to the book, when a company buys back its own stock,
>the shares purchased become treasury stock and are not considered
>outstanding.  When calculating P/E, the number of shares outstanding 
>would indeed drop by the shares purchased by the company.

Actually, this makes sense, since the repurchased stock is
owned by the entity shared by the stockholders, so it
becomes part of the equity.

Then again, it can be sold by the company without resorting
to the rigamarole necessary to issue more stock, right?

				--Blair
				  "Who's zooming whom?"
				  -Aretha Franklin, w/ Edwin Newman
From: robs@.informix.com (Robert Schneider)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Online stock price services
Date: 23 Jul 92 00:05:38 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

I know these are probably FAQs, but here goes:

What I'd like to do is connect to an online service that would
allow me to use some sort of query constructor (preferably SQL,
but that's dreaming) that would enable me to perform searches
for all stocks with a certain PE, price, dividend %, etc.  Right
now, to do this, I must browse through the price listings in the 
Journal, and that gets real old real fast.  Is anyone aware of/using 
such a service?

An alternative method would be to retrieve/receive electronic
price tables, either through dialup (expensive) or floppy (not
timely).  I could then use a spreadsheet, database, etc to 
build this simple application.  Anyone doing this?

Finally, regarding Dow Jones electronic service - is anyone
out there using it?  How are the costs, features, etc?

Please respond via email to save bandwidth.

Thanks for all info,

Rob
From: mpattee@fluke.tc.fluke.com (Mark Pattee)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: FORSALE: Baseball Cards
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:44:37 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA


	I have the following cards that I must reluctantly
depart with. These are partial sets and I would rather sell
them as just that and not split up.

1970 TOPPS:

293 Commons - Including higher numbered cards.
51 Star Cards - Including Jackson, Munson (R), Rose, Carlton,
Carew, Palmer, Aaron and many more.

Most of these cards have been rated by several dealers as 
being in EX condition. There are some in VG-EX and some
in EX-MT. Beckett valued at 624.00 LOW - 993.00 HIGH.

------------------------------------------------------------

1971 TOPPS:

537 Commons - Including higher numbered cards.
85 Star Cards - Including Concepcion (R), Blyleven (R), McCovey,
Carlton, Rose, Carew, Ryan, Yaz, Mays and many more.

Most of these cards have also been rated by several dealers
as being in EX condition . Some in VG-EX and some in EX-MT. 
Beckett valued at 1422.00 LOW - 2613.00 HIGH.

------------------------------------------------------------

I will reply to any and all offers.
If interested Email me and I will send you a complete list.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: joec@fid.morgan.com (Joe Collins)
Subject: Re: Fundamentals, my dear Watson, fundamentals!
Organization: None
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:17:08 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.171217.20302@cs.umn.edu> prabhak@cs.umn.edu (Satya Prabhakar) writes:
>OK, maybe I am a little pissed becuased I shorted the market by
>buying index puts and the market shot up (over the last week) in
>a rather belated response.

The market shot up partially to due to a poor consumer confidence
number. The market shot up because the long bond went up, lowering
long term rates. Both markets anticipate another fed easing.

>But what I don't get is this: What the hell do investors see in
>the economy to bid up the prices so much?
>
> * Recession is still plaguing the country.

But inflation is very low and so are rates, this favors long
term growth and thus better earnings and higher stock prices.

> * US trading partners are in a full-swing recession which will
>   affect foregin earlings of most companies.

True....they are worse off than us, at least for now.

> * The market has already discounted increased future earnings.

Are you sure about this?

>   Don't argue with me now, the Dow is at record levels and so
>   are the PEs.

But PEs are based on earnings and earnings are reported earnings,
i.e. historical earnings. What about ANTICIPATED FUTURE earnings?
One theory says stock prices should be the present value of the
future dividend stream (so I heard) and if dividends in the future
may rise (paid by future earnings), this makes present day stock
prices undervalued, as compared to the pv of future dividend
increases.

> * Inflow into stock funds is slowly and steadily dropping.

The money going into stock funds for June 92 was $5.3billion,
while a year earlier it was only $932million (WSJ 7/31/92). True enough,
inflows are starting to slack off from that high rate.

> * Unemployment is very high and will therefore affect consumer 
>   spending.

This favors a possible fed easing, making stocks even more attractive.

>What in the glorious heavens do you see in this situation to want to put
>more money into stocks?, I ask.

The stock market is classified as a Leading Indicator. The most economists
see a slow and steady recovery in the near future. 

>Best regards,
>Satya Prabhakar
>

Likewise,

Joe
joec@morgan.com
Usual disclaimers....



Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: floydb@sun01.admin.rpi.edu (Barry B Floyd)
Subject: Re: Hedging your ARM with S&P options
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 13:49:01 GMT

federkin@rtsg.mot.com (John Federkins) writes:


>As the saying goes,"When interest rates are low, stocks will grow.
>When interest rates are high, stocks will die."

>Therefore, I was wondering if anyone tried hedging an adjustable-rate
>mortgage by shorting the S&P 500 (or similar) by selling calls and
>buying puts?  It seems feasible that proper investing in this manner
>over the long haul would give you a net mortgage rate (when you include
>your options losses/gains) consistently and significantly lower than
>the going fixed rate mortgages.  What you would need to do is invest
>a certain percentage of what the ARM vs fixed-rate saves you per month.
>And hopefully, if your ARM rate goes above what you could have gotten
>for a fixed rate, your gains in options will more than cover the difference.
> 
>Does anyone know of a good source of information that shows the 
>correlation between stock market advances/declines and interest rate
>increases/decreases?

>Please feel free to blast or support this theory as necessary.
>Thanks,

>JF


>-- 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up!"
>John Federkins				Cellular Infrastructure Division
>Motorola, Inc.				Arlington Heights, IL
 
Intuitively this plan seems to make sense. Where it may get tricky and/or
expensive is where trading expenses come in.
 
Also, presuming a one year adjustment with a 2% cap (up or down) you would
have to buy long term options of your index of choice (S&P 500, 400, 100, etc)

Are there index options available with an expiration date one year out?
You could minimize transaction costs if you only had to buy and sell
once a year.
 
How would the 2% cap get factored into the formula determine the size
of the option committment? Presume that there is a one to one relation
between interest rate changes and market moves (i.e. ARM rate up 2% ==
S&P 500 down 2%, option premium value may move 5% to 10%). What 
percentage of the mortgage would have to be invested in options? What
if the market moves more than 2%? Do banks adjust the ARM rate lower
as readily as they seem to adjust the rate higher (though mine only
went up 3/8% this year)?
 
Needless to say I would be interested in further speculation on this
topic, though I suspect that it will take a few what if scenarios to
seem if it is worth it.
 
barry

-- 
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+ 
| Barry B. Floyd                   \\\       barry_floyd@mts.rpi.edu |
| Manager Information Systems - Admin.\\\             floydb@rpi.edu |
+-Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute--------------------troy, ny 12180-+
Newsgroups: misc.invest,sci.econ
From: keith@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Keith Hawkins)
Subject: Re: Should we limit the shorts life time.
Reply-To: keith@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Keith Hawkins)
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 18:07:36 GMT



Here's my two cents worth on the can of worms
Babak Sehari opened. 

(That's not a slam on Babak. It really generated
some interesting dialogue.  And lots of it!!)

My general view on shorting is that it is just as
perfectly legit, fair, etc. as going long.

Should someone be restricted from going long
by $1 million?  NO.  So why should someone
be restricted from going short the same amount?

When you buy long, you are betting, and I repeat
BETTING,  the stock, commodity, whatever, will
rise in price.

When you go short, the gamble is for a 
decline in price.  Nothing more.

Rapid declines in the market are not the
result of a frenzy of SHORT selling.  It is a
frenzy of SELLING in general.  Including those
who are getting out of LONG positions.  For whatever
reason, selling seems to be done en masse to a 
greater degree than buying.

The market is, if nothing else, big.  And these
days getting bigger with alternatives like
interest-income instruments (CDs, Money Market accounts)
becoming less attractive.  Even individuals like 
Ross "I was only kidding about that presidency thang" Perot
have little individual effect.

Someone said that short selling is a sucker bet.
Well it depends on the stock.  Going long on stock
can equally make you feel like a blow-pop.  Look
what happened to Royal "Don't you just love our dirt devils"
Appliance Corp.  6 months ago this looked like a fine
stock.  Last week it lost over half its value just because
earnings grew, but just not like they used to.  (Welcome
to the big board, Royal !!!!!)

Anyway, that's my view on shorting.

-Keith


Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: philco@microsoft.com (Phillip Cooper)
Subject: Re: Cray Computer: When to bail out?
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:31:07 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: usa

In article <l73upqINNiop@almaak.usc.edu> ajayshah@almaak.usc.edu (Ajay Shah) writes:
>eric@tfs.com (Eric Smith) writes:
>
>>I think Microsoft is interesting for the next decade.  Right now it
>
>They probably have feet of clay.
>Never has the PC market known real "OS" choices like they do today.
>Earlier, the option to running MS-DOS was writing your own monitor.
>Today there is (or will soon be) : MS-DOS, DR-DOS, Windows 3.x,
>Windows NT, OS/2 2.0, Desqview, Desqview/X, Linux, Solaris, Nextstep.
>
>I can't think of a time when the market share of MS products in the
>Intel market has been smaller.  Soon the peasants might even realise
>they've been had :-)
>

Ajay,  Do you have statistics to back up this absurd claim?  I can't think
of a time when MS market share has been bigger!  We have the huge majority
in OS sales (Almost 100% of the DOS market, 20 times as many Windows sales
as IBM has OS/2 2.0 sales).  We have the leading Windows spreadsheet and
wordprocessor.  If you back up this claim with hard facts, I will be the
first to apologize.  Otherwise, I will be waiting for your apology.

Phil "I'm not biased, even though I work for Microsoft :)" Cooper

>        -ans.
>-- 
>Ajay Shah, (213)749-8133, ajayshah@usc.edu
From: rbeville@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Robert E Beville)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: finbooklist.2 financial reading
Keywords: for investing beginners
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:31:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: tekig7.6325
Distribution: usa



	Here is the second list of the financial and investment books
	for novices & others... the format is author, TITLE, publisher.
	Here at work I just have what you see here... some publishers
	are missing... I think there's enough to go on... add to my list
	if you feel into it...  Hope you like to read...

    Charles J. Rollo   GAINING ON THE MARKET   ...
    Ken Trester(sp?)   THE COMPLEAT OPTIONS PLAYER ...
    Riggs & Hale       DOW-JONES GUIDE TO MUTUAL FUNDS   Dow-Jones
    Seldom & Swesnick  REAL ESTATE INVESMENT STRATEGY ...
    R.D. Luce &
    H. Raiffa          GAMES AND DECISIONS,,,, WILEY & SONS
    George Breen       DO IT YOURSELF MARKET RESEARCH
    Dana Thomas        PLUNGERS & PEACOCKS ...
    Adam Smith         WEALTH OF NATIONS      Harvard Classics vol 10
    Louis Brandeis     OTHER PEOPLES MONEY ...
    Roger W. Babson    BUSINESS BAROMETERS FOR PROFIT SECURITY INCOME
    Graham Dodd & Cottle  SECURITY ANALYSIS ...
    Fred Scheid        WHERE ARE THE CUSTOMER'S YACHTS ...
    Martin Zweig       WINNING ON WALL STREET ...
    Justin & Robert Mamis HOW TO BUY  Cornerstone Library
    Justin & Robert Mamis HOW TO SELL Cornerstone Library
    .... Rothchild      A FOOL AND HIS MONEY ...
    William J. Diamond  BULLS, BEARS & MASSACRES,  Lifetime Learning Pubs.
    Edward S. Jensen    STOCK MARKET BLUEPRINTS   Quick & Reilly
    Gustave Le Bon      THE CROWD ...
    Dr. W. McDougal     THE GROUP MIND ...
    Philip Fisher       COMMON STOCKS & UNCOMMON PROFITS  Harper&Row
    Philip Fisher       CONSERVATIVE INVESTORS SLEEP WELL
    Will Proctor        THE TEMPLETON TOUCH   Doubleday
    John Train          THE MONEY MASTERS     Harper&Row
    Edwin LeFevre       REMINISENCES OF A STOCK MARKET OPERATOR  Doran
    Bernard Baruch      MY OWN STORY ...
    Peter Wycoff        DICTIONARY OF STOCK MARKET TERMS    Popular Library
    Jarrow & Rudd       OPTION PRICING ...
    Cox & Rubenstein    OPTION MARKETS ...
    William Reich       CHARACTER ANALYSIS ...
    Ben Graham          STORAGE AND STABILITY & THE INTERPRETATION
    .                   OF FINANCIAL STATEMENTS ...
    Gerald M Loeb       YOUR BATTLE FOR STOCK MARKET PROFITS ...
    Richard Band        CONTRARY INVESTING ...
    Herbert Filer       UNDERSTANDING PUT AND CALL OPTIONS   Popular Lib...
    Helen J McLane
    & Patricia Hutai    THE INVESTMENT CLUB WAY TO STOCK MARKET PROFITS,
    Dolphin Books.
    .... Weiss          DIVIDENDS DON'T LIE ...
    Charles Mackay      EXTRAORDINARY  POPULAR DELUSIONS & THE
    .                   MADNESS OF CROWDS ....

	that's -OWARI- from GLOWWORM-7-9-4
	best regards, rbeville@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM
	Bob Beville, Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR 97077
From: hkk38381@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Arthur Kwok)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Rising interest rate in Germany
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:34:18 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

zhangy@enel.ucalgary.ca (Yuejin Zhang) writes:

>In article <BrtMJK.30@news.cso.uiuc.edu> hkk38381@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Arthur Kwok) writes:
>>mho@pyramid.COM (Michael Ho) writes:
>>
>>>It seems that the interest rate will eventually come back down in Germany
>>>and rest of Europe. Would this be a good time to get into some mutual funds
>>>that specialize in European Bonds? Any good recommendation on such mutual
>>>funds. 
>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>mho@pyramid.com
>>
>>The worst thing is that as the DMK's interest rate goes down, so will
>>the DMK. It is because the closing of the interest rate gap between
>>U.S. and Germany (or Europe as a whole) will drive up U.S. dollar.
>>I don't know whether your European bond's return, say U.K. Gilt, will
>>overcome the loss in currency fluctuation.
>>
>>Art
>>
>>----------------I trade FX in the spot market------------------------

>I think what you said is true. But, is there a good way to hedge DMK?
>How do you expert do this?

>Is there any way to short DMK, instead of buying long put on DMK future?
>There seems quite a lot premium on such options.


You can make use of the forward market.
From: timlee@public.btr.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Deutschmark Account
Date: 30 Jul 92 04:58:23 GMT
Reply-To: timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Followup-To: misc.invest
Distribution: usa

bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible) writes:
|	A question comes to mind about this kind of account in case the bank
|fails.  Saving and checking accounts are insured by the FDIC (or you wouldn't
|have money in there in the first place, right?), but what about the foreign
|currency accounts?  I am not talking about whether or not the account loses
|money because of exchange rates or problems with the foreign bank.  I am

Union Bank in California (which is 76% owned by Bank of Tokyo) offers
various foreign currency accounts.  Its disclosure says that they
are eligible for FDIC insurance, but there are special rules
regarding the exchange rate at which the account is converted 
to USA dollars for FDIC limit purposes.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: mbk@netcom.com (Miles Kehoe)
Subject: Re: Drops in Stock Prices
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 18:27:10 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa

rmackenz@wtcd.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Robert Mackenzie) writes:

>So, I guess the question really is: How does one obtain current information
>about a specific stock in time to make a smart move.

Hm.... from a PR guy... there are TONS of information all over.
You research, research, research. Lots of industry mags like
Inforworld, PC Week, MacWeek, PC, Byte, etc. Then there are
online services - Compuserve has an 'executive news service'
which lets you set keywords to search for and put hit sin
your mailbox. 

WSJ has a table of all companies mentioned in the issue - check there
every day, because chances are there's only a small bit on Adobe or
any given (small) company. Investor's Business Daily (like WSJ) has 
a column every day which talks about issues going up and down and why.
If you own stocks and want to know what's happening, you do alot of reading!

mbk
From: hedges@pilot.njin.net (Douglas Hedges)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: What is the inflation rate for 1992?
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:15:07 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

bill@dewey.edsci.wisc.edu (Bill Roth) writes:


>What is the annualized inflation rate for 1992 going to be, given  
>what we know so far this year? Anybody want to make a stab at it?

I thought I heard something like 3.1% or so on CNBC yesterday.
I think they were using figures from OMB / Dick Darman's
mid-year report given yesterday.
From: siperas@hsi.com (Steve Siperas)
Subject: Mutual Life Insurance
Organization: 3M Health Information Systems, Wallingford CT
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:47:05 GMT

Hi

I have been approached to buy life insurance from Minnesota Mutual.
The deal is you are to get a set price for the life insurance then
you get part of the premium into the MIMLIC mutual fund family. Also
you can add extra money directly to the fund. The selling point is
that the money is tax-free as long as the policy is active and you can
borrow against the policy. I'm trying to start saving for my kids
education and this is one option.

The other option is to invest in mutual funds and get taxed yearly
and have term insurance which increases every year or 5 years.

Any thoughts or experiences with this would be appreciated


steve

siperas@hsi.com
   
-- 
Steve Siperas                   siperas@hsi.com -OR- {yale,uunet}!hsi!siperas
3M Health Information Systems
Wallingford, Connecticut        " GO UCONN HUSKIES "

Newsgroups: misc.invest