From: jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (Joel K. Furr)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RESULT: comp.society.folklore unmoderation fails 729:151
Date: 18 Dec 92 08:46:48 GMT
Organization: Escape from Blacksburg, VA

In article <8175@lib.tmc.edu> jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:

>In article <1gp4jpINNqp7@nigel.msen.com> emv@msen.com (Edward Vielmetti) writes
:
>>Jay, if you are really interested in reading alt.folklore.computers,
>>there are several opportunities open to you.
>
>[eight good suggestions deleted]
>
>>In any case these are efforts which you can take on individually, on
>>your own initiative, and that you anyone with even a small amount of
>>talent, money, creativity, or stubbornness (pick one) can do.  I would
>>guess that you are more than up to doing it.  None of them would require
>>anyone else's consent - just go and read the group!
>
>I agree that there are avenues that folks can pursue to get access to the
>group.
>
>Where I disagree with the hysterics of the alt.diehards is that over a quarter
>of the net should have to go through those gyrations to read what, by all
>accounts, is a very good group.
>
>Still, they managed to generate a large turnout, and have won their point.
>Whether or not I manage to come in from the cold, just remember that a quarter
>of the net is still out there, shivering.


Sorry, Jay, but your Neanderthal genes are betraying themselves again.  Let's
look at the November news.lists stats.  I took the top 86 groups, from #1
through alt.folklore.computers (#86 in terms of total readers) in order to
examine all groups *more* popular than a.f.c.

If I understand your argument, it goes like this: popular groups which aren't
carried by many sites should be moved to the comp. hierarchy out of wherever
they now linger in order that netnews readers not shiver in the cold.

Let's look at the table: I sorted by the percentage of sites NOT receiving each
group, most unavailable to least.  Note that every newsgroup listed below
is read by more people than a.f.c. (with a.f.c. stuck in as a benchmark).
Thus, if we follow Jay's argument that it's not fair to tell a big chunk of
news readers that they have to go elsewhere to read popular groups, we should
move a _large_ portion of the top 100 groups elsewhere so they can be read by
more people.  Heaven forfend that any site not carry a group Jay deems popular
and worth reading.

     Estimated  % sites
      readers     NOT
rank worldwide receiving Name
-------------------------------------------------------------
 38     60,000       89% oh.general
 28     67,000       88% clari.news.briefs
 13     89,000       50% alt.sex.stories
 59     51,000       45% alt.3d
 68     49,000       44% alt.sex.movies
 10     95,000       43% alt.binaries.pictures.erotica
 62     51,000       43% alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.d
 34     61,000       41% alt.binaries.pictures.misc

My.  Look at all those naughty alt.sex and alt.naughty.pictures groups that 2
out of 5 net news readers can't even get at if they wanted to.  Let's move them
to comp.

 76     47,000       36% misc.jobs.offered.entry

Wow!  A popular group such as misc.jobs.offered entry is denied to over one
third of the net.

 15     80,000       36% alt.sex.bondage
 63     50,000       35% alt.binaries.pictures.d
 29     64,000       35% alt.personals

More sex groups.  Let's get them in comp. where they'll be widely propagated.

 65     50,000       35% alt.atheism

Aha!  This must be Christian anti-atheist bias, right, Jay?  And clearly
totally unfair.  Let's move it to comp. so no atheist news reader will shiver
in the cold unable to read it.

 60     51,000       33% alt.bbs.internet
  4    140,000       33% alt.sex

 85     45,000       32% alt.hackers

A legitimate computer-related group, even, denied to one-third of the net.
Look at all those poor news fans shivering in the cold.  We'd better get alt.
hackers moved out of the sewer right away.

 17     79,000       32% alt.activism

Is it fair that one out of three news sites doesn't carry alt.activism?  Poor
activism fans, shivering in the cold.

 22     74,000       30% rec.arts.erotica

Look, a *rec* sex group, denied to three out of ten readers.  This calls for
action!

 58     51,000       29% alt.bbs

Two bbs groups (alt.bbs.internet, above) and alt.bbs, denied to 3 out of 10
shivering-in-the-cold newsreaders.

 27     67,000       29% talk.politics.misc

Wow.  A non-sex related group, ranked in the top 30, unavailable to even more
people than alt.folklore.computers.  Let's try renaming it comp.politics.misc.
Perhaps that will help.

 86     45,000       28% alt.folklore.computers

Pity Jay and the 28% of news readers who can't get their mitts on this group.
Someone throw them a blanket and maybe fix them some hot cocoa.

 24     69,000       28% soc.culture.indian

Racism.  2/7 of all sites refuse to carry a group about the second most
populous nation on Earth.

 53     54,000       27% comp.sys.ibm.pc.games

Hmm.  This one's already IN comp.  Where should we move it, Jay?  It's being
denied to about the same number of people who are shivering in the cold not
able to read alt.folklore.computers, and according to you, that's a tremendous
crime against the peoples of the Net.


 79     47,000       27% soc.culture.china

Racism.  How dare 1/4 of all sites refuse to carry a group about the most
populous nation on Earth?

 16     80,000       27% talk.bizarre

A top 20 group!  And again, denied to about as many sites as a.f.c.  Jay!  A
call to arms!

 64     50,000       26% soc.women

It's blatant sexism if you ask me.  Why are 1/4 of all news sites not receiving
this group?  People shouldn't have to shiver in the cold not able to get
soc.women.  I'm sure Jay will be the first to circulate a petition demanding
redress.

 37     60,000       26% soc.singles
 45     57,000       24% rec.nude
 83     46,000       24% rec.arts.movies.reviews
 46     57,000       23% rec.travel
 82     46,000       23% rec.pets
 39     60,000       22% rec.arts.movies

Look at this!  The six groups above, all clearly of interest to Yuppies and the
overwhelming percentage of the Net who are single and in need of companionship,
denied to between 1/4 and 1/5 of the Net.  I'm surprised we haven't heard from
Jay on these.  Poor Yuppies... shivering in the cold.


Blah blah blah blah.  Jay, are you getting the message?  There are LOTS of
popular groups, very deserving groups indeed, that aren't available to a hefty
chunk of the net.  Stop being such a goddamn martyr, whining endlessly about
how you're not going to do ANY of the eight things that Edward Vielmetti
suggested because it's wrong that 1/4 of the Net is shivering in the cold
unable to get their mitts on alt.folklore.computers.  It's a stupid argument.

 21     75,000       22% alt.sources
 57     52,000       21% comp.binaries.ibm.pc.archives
 42     59,000       21% news.admin
 73     48,000       21% rec.food.cooking
 56     53,000       21% misc.legal
 30     64,000       21% misc.jobs.contract
 36     60,000       21% rec.music.misc
 74     47,000       20% misc.misc
 49     56,000       20% misc.consumers
 35     61,000       20% misc.wanted
 84     46,000       20% comp.binaries.mac
 51     56,000       19% sci.electronics
 11     91,000       19% misc.forsale.computers
 67     49,000       19% sci.physics
 81     46,000       19% sci.math
 78     47,000       19% sci.space
 61     51,000       19% comp.sys.mac.announce
 71     48,000       18% comp.sys.mac.system
 77     47,000       18% comp.sys.mac.apps
 43     58,000       18% misc.jobs.resumes
  7    110,000       18% rec.humor
 25     69,000       18% comp.binaries.ibm.pc
 50     56,000       18% comp.sys.mac.misc
  2    170,000       17% misc.forsale
 18     79,000       17% misc.jobs.misc
 72     48,000       17% comp.binaries.ibm.pc.d
 52     54,000       16% comp.ai
 32     62,000       16% comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
 75     47,000       16% comp.arch
  6    130,000       16% rec.humor.funny
 48     56,000       16% comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
  3    170,000       16% misc.jobs.offered
 70     48,000       15% comp.databases
 20     77,000       15% comp.graphics
  5    140,000       15% news.answers
 41     59,000       15% comp.misc
 80     47,000       15% comp.unix.programmer
 33     62,000       14% comp.sources.misc
 23     69,000       14% news.announce.important
 69     49,000       14% comp.sources.wanted
 54     54,000       13% comp.unix.admin
 26     67,000       13% comp.lang.c++
  8    110,000       13% comp.windows.x
 40     60,000       12% news.announce.conferences
 19     78,000       12% comp.lang.c
 66     49,000       12% comp.dcom.modems
 44     58,000       12% comp.unix.wizards
 31     62,000       12% comp.unix.questions
 14     81,000       11% news.newusers.questions
 55     54,000       10% news.misc
  1    180,000       10% news.announce.newusers
 12     91,000       10% news.announce.newgroups
  9     97,000       10% news.groups
 47     56,000       10% news.lists

Look, Jay, even though the news. groups immediately above are the most widely
carried newsgroups of all, 1 out of 10 people still can't get at them.  Get
some perspective.  Stop acting like the poster-boy for North American
Bedwetters Anonymous.

Oh, and if you want to read alt.folklore.computers, I think Edward Vielmetti
had some fine suggestions.  Try some of them.
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.misc