HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sherman@localhost ("Dennis R. Sherman")
Subject: Flash Photography
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 12:38:46 GMT

Arval said:
>Eirik said:
>
>>  I've never been at a Court where flashbulbs went off (and No Flashes is
>> SCA policy).
>
>No, it isn't.  It is East Kingdom law.

And it is also the law in Atlantia.

*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Robyyan Torr d'Elandris  Kapellenberg, Windmaster's Hill  Atlantia *
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Dennis R. Sherman  	         Triangle Research Libraries Network *
* dennis_sherman@unc.edu       Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill *
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Moderation (was pentagrams)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:57:48 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!

Aryk observed, quite correctly, that the corporation and its office of the
heralds have no authority to regulate what people actually paint on their
shields, banners, etc.  He concluded:

> So the question is a moot point as anything but a matter of the
> corporation's statement on its members' modern religious affiliations.

No.  The corporation has made absolutely no statement about religion.  It
decided that it does not want to give official sanction to the display of
an insignia which has widespread, violent negative connotations in the
modern US and parts of Europe.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: z_berryrw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Crossbow Physics? HELP!
Date: 23 Jul 92 01:22:21 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

Greeting Rialto,

Speaking of Crossbows, I am constructing a crossbow for SCA combat archery.
Could any of you physicists out there give me the formula/procedure for
determining the "K" of my particular prod?  The incremental increase per
distance of "draw" (delta dispacement)?  A formula for adjusting the "k" of
the prod by changing the cable length?

I have one of those kit prods, and I _think_ that it's a 45# bow.

If anyone has done this before, I'd appreciate any tips, hints, advice,
suggestions, or outright imperatives you have to offer.

Thanks in advance,
Wolfrick Thorinsson, Shire of Greywood, Ansteorra

From: Joe.Bethancourt@f166.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Bethancourt)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Rapiers and honor
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1992 14:56:04 -0500

 -=> A.J.S. Nusbacher said to All on 07-17-92  17:15 <=- 

 AN> From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
 AN> Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
 AN> Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House

 >No doubt, each had its place.  A broad sword would be the proper weapon
 >for the field of battle, a rapier more suited to social gatherings.  The 
 >rapier, under such circumstances, the rapier would become more of a 
 >duelling weapon.  

 AN> I don't doubt that people fought with rapiers under non-battle circum-
 AN> stances.  It happened all the time, even in England.  The question is,
 AN> was it considered "honourable" to fight this way (the way duelling was
 AN> considered honourable in later years), or was it considered fighting?
 
 >And of course, a gentleman would be expected to know how
 >to defend himself with the rapier, should it become necessary.  

 AN> Mynheer van Leyden and I would both agree with that.
 
 >With this
 >interpretation, the broad sword could be viewed as the more honorable 
 >weapon, as it was used in battle, while the rapier was merely for "everyday"
 >use.

Quite true. In period, one would carry a Schiavona-style basket hilted 
broadsword in battle (similar to the hangers carried by medieval archers)
while for everyday, the rapier was considered appropriate. Those who carried
broadswords as "everyday" apparrel (in the days of the rapier) were considered
somewhat barbaric, or worse, Scots. ( I speak, of course, from a British Isles
viewpoint...)

And the rapier fighter considered the wearing of mail or other "secrets" to be
extremely dishonourable indeed.

Both styles had honour.

-From the Aten Gulag Archepelago:

                                                        -Ioseph of Locksley
                                                         Grumpy Cavalier

... 1650: Diana said it, I believe it, and that settles it!
From: Leonard.Erickson@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Leonard Erickson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Why not pentacles:
Date: 23 Jul 92 02:47:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.711843698.F00006

In a message to All <07-22-92 17:59> Cassandra L. Baldassano wrote:

CL>  From: kinsey@worf.nas.nasa.gov (Cassandra L. Baldassano)
CL>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
CL>  Reply-To: kinsey@worf.nas.nasa.gov (Cassandra L. Baldassano)
CL>
CL>  I heard that one time. (Begin rumor) that one of the officers took his
CL>  radar gun out to check how fast the fighters swing their swords. He was
CL>  to have clocked Duke Radnor's Sword Tip to be going over 200mph. (End
CL>  rumor).
CL>  Does anybody know the truth to this, or is it just another one of those
CL>  legends that frequent the campfires.

I don't know about the truth of it, but a quick calculation show that with a 
5 foot "radius" (forearm + length of sword) if it takes less than 1/12 of a 
second for the swing, the tip *would be doing around 200... (I'm assuming 
the swing covers 3/4 of a circle)
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 92 10:37:22 CST
From:         Bartholomew <DANW@WUVMD>
To:           NETNEWS@WUVMD
Subject:      Re: Advice for Pennsic re: dampness
Newsgroups:   rec.org.sca

>
>AN>  >When I went camping recently I noticed the fact that the sleeping
>AN>  bags and
>AN>  >the pillows we used quickly became damp - by the second day we were
>AN>  resigned
>AN>
>AN>  The general rule for Pennsic is that everything you own will get
>AN>  damp.
>AN>  Wear woolen socks.
>AN>  Resign yourself to dampness.
>
>Now I don't do Pennsic, but I do camp. There is a mundane solution. It would
>involve leaving the site, and some may be unwilling to visit Mundania, but I
>have done this (mostly auto racing in BC, which can be a deluge) and I think
>it is worth the sacrifice.
>
>Take your bedding to a laundromat and stuff it in the dryers. Unless you've
>spilled something in it (or have bairns who have bed-wetting troubles) you
>can get away with just the drying. Folk can send one "delegate" and lots of
>coins. If you delegate this in shifts you should be able to get a fairly
>large subset of your household dry often enough that you will only suffer
>"clammy-ness" and not full damp. Sleeping in damp bedding in cold weather
>can lead to exposure, even at what seems like fairly high temperatures,.
>Water sucks the heat out of your body and transfers it into the ground
>below. If your pavilion is drafty, you could get in real trouble, as it will
>also tranfer to the moving air quite quickly.
>
>Moreach NicMaolain
>trifid@agora.rain.com
>

Not a good idea, at least not in practice.   Running your bedding
to a laundry is a great way  to dry the bedding.   The only trouble
is there are not enough facilities for this.   During the week of
Pennsic, Cooper's Lake has the largest population in the entire county.
The two nearest towns only have so many laundrymats. The laundry closest
to Pennsic has a twofold policy (as a result of pennsic) 1)you can ONLY
use the dryers on items you wash there, and 2)if you are waiting for
a washing machine, you have to let locals ahead of you.

On the upside however, at least two of the laundrymats in NewCastle
have extended their hours in order to provide facilities.

Someone else made the suggestion of using clothes lines to air dry
you bedding.  I have been to several wars, and I find air-dried bedding
is about the best option you can get.

Enjoy Pennsic
Bartholomew Landover  GDH
From: leighann@sybase.com (Leigh Ann Hussey Oster)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Is "Filk" a period practise? (Was: Re: Basic Courtesy)
Date: 29 Jul 92 22:34:06 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc.

Greetings to the Rialto, and especially to the learned Hossein; may your
God be favorable to you.
In article <3189@creatures.cs.vt.edu> you write:

>Filking of modern songs is in principle a non-medieval
>practice.

I would beg to differ.  It was not at all unknown for the makers of
motets to "steal" outright a popular song of the time and set sacred
lyrics to it -- nor was it above the minstrels and jongleurs to set
rather less than sacred texts to church music.  If you truly wish for
particular examples, I will happily provide (but please to warn me so
that I may bring my reference books to work).

In that vein, then, and in a spirit of nothing but fun, I would like to 
issue the following challenge to all and sundry:
Choose a modern tune -- any will do, though I would be inclined to say
"The more popular, the better" -- and set to it lyrics so skillfully 
wrought that none may say from which popular song they might
have drawn rhythm.  Then let us all try and guess.  I might (given
sufficient interest) be induced to send prizes in the form of chocolate
(or other nice things) to those who successfully conceal their song's 
origin.

Apart from being, at least potentially, an amusing exercise, I do wish
to make a point: it should be possible to compose an "acceptable" filk,
perhaps even -- dare I say it? -- acceptable to the authenticity mavens.
DISCLAIMER!!!: I DO prefer work that is entirely original, myself, but I
believe in content over form.

Oh, and of course, I will respond to the challenge with at least one in
like form -- or if somebody wishes to counter-challenge in a different
way (set modern words to a perioid but original tune, for example?), be
ye welcome.

Slainte!
	- Leigh Ann
--
Leigh Ann Hussey Oster
leighann@sybase.com			DoD#5913	AMA#624549
Siobhan ni hEodhusa
"They're mine!  All mine!  And what's mine is mine!" - Daffy Duck
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Anonymous hate mail
Date: 28 Jul 92 21:34:55 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: SCA

Unto all the gentles on the Rialto, from Terry Nutter -- Angharad knows
nothing of this sort of thing -- greetings.  I preface this by saying
that I know well that what is below has no application whatsoever to
the overwhelming majority of you; unfortunately, this is my only way
of communicating with those to whom it does apply.  To the rest of you,
I apologize for bringing up something so unsavory.

In the last 24 hours, my account has received three pieces of sheer, 
unadulterated hate mail originating from this group.  In two cases, 
the individuals sending the mail did not sign their transmissions,
or otherwise identify themselves.  Neither mentioned anything that
could remotely be called a principle: they were personal vituperation
with absolutely no other elements.

Expression of opinion is absolutely free.

Anonymous hate mail is frequently actionable, and I see no reason to
tolerate it.

Apparently, the concept behind this is that open criticism publicly
answered to is inappropriate, but anonymous ungrounded personal 
attacks are just fine, so long as they are done in email and not on
the net.  This seems to be what some people take away from polite
requests on the net that heated disputes be conducted by email:
not that what is of private interest remain private, but that email
is an appropriate venue in which to vent one's spleen to whatever
degree one wants, without the honesty of identifying oneself.
 
Unfortunately, the messages were deleted by the mailer before I could
respond directly in email, so I am left only with this venue.
This is to notify these individuals, and anyone considering emulating
them, how I will handle any further such messages.  They will be saved,
with all system-originating information, handed over to the appropriate
officials of Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University for
pursuit, dealt with through the official system managers of the originating 
site, and treated as any other scurilous and harassing transmission
to an official State of Virginia site.  I will not sully my hands with
this trash any further.

In Service to the Society,

-- Terry Nutter
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Sender: postmaster@therose.pdx.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Question....
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 23:43:00 -0700

AD>  From: derlith@wuntvor.norman.ok.us (August Derlith)
AD>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
AD>
AD>                  Can I use Antlers in all of my decorating?
AD>          (Or is that not in period?)

Depends on the style of decorating. Antlers are very common in German 
heraldry. (For a still-in-use example look at the arms on the front of the 
nearest Porche. Those squiggly black things are the German conventional 
depiction of antlers...)

I'm not sure how they would be used for non-heraldic decoration. I suspect 
it depends a lot on culture and era involved.

Moreach NicMaolain
trifid@agora.rain.com 
 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: PORTERG@ruby.vcu.EDU (Greg Porter)
Subject: Authenticity and Analogy
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:19:00 GMT

	Greetings to the Rialto:

	I've been following this discussion for some time, and I believe that
analogous material (i.e. songs/poems written about events in the SCA and/or
things known/believed in during the period in question) has a place in the
SCA which includes the feast hall, as well as the campfire,etc.  To me, a
song that creates a period mood is as welcome, if not more so, than a period
piece played in period fashion on period instruments.  This is precisely 
because I can relate to the first song, while I lack the technical skill to
get much out of the second.  The best example of an original song with period
feel that I can name is 'The Burden of the Crown', by Baldwin of Erebor.  Songs
such as that should not be denied simply because they were written after 1600.

	Fare well,

	Morgan Wolfsinger (Catherine DeMott) by my lord's net access

-----------------------------------------------------
	Those who teach authenticity accomplish more than those who preach it.
-----------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: archer@utkux1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Re: Rapier Combat
Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 12:59:37 GMT

In article <5501@umriscc.isc.umr.edu> asparrow@mcs213b.cs.umr.edu (Angelia Sparrow) writes:

>Your pardon all,
>this is at best tangetial to the ongoing
>discussion.

>When were rapiers and main gauches first used?
>(rough dates)

>What chance would a fighter using the live version of
>the above have against one using a broadsword and dagger?
>(I'm a novelist and having a bit of trouble with this
>scene)  My lord husband maintains that the first blow would
>break the thinner rapier.  My collaborator says not.

That depends on your fencers, your edgeman, and your swordsmith.

IMHO, there would not be a "first blow," as, if the rapier man was not out 
of his mind, he would use his superior speed to put his point through the 
eyeslots of his opponent's helm and end the combat then.

Failing that, it is possible, and even fairly likely that a well-made rapier 
could parry heavy blows if they were caught low on the blade.  

My advice would be to coreograph your fight so that there are few parries 
and a lot of dodging from sweeping blows.

The Rialto Authenticity Police will probably jump me for it, but I think 
that your author's standard Dramatic License will get you off the hook.
-=-=-
T. Archer  PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu
University of Tennessee
"Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking." -- Unknown
-=-=-
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: guyw@teton (Guy Wells)
Subject: Re: a paper Rialto?
Keywords: Thinkwell 
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:06:10 GMT

Pavel writes:
>A friend told me there is a paper version of the Rialto out of the
>Outlands. Hve any of you heard about this?

The newsletter, _Thinkwell_, published by her Excellency, Mistress
Aeflaed of Duckford, is a philosophy of the SCA publication. It is
much like the Rialto in that a lot of people write in with opinions
about X and a number of viewpoints are presented.

I'll have to go get a copy at home and provide the address for
anyone interested.

Jalut

-- 
--
Guy M. Wells <guyw@uswest.com>  Disclaimer: My opinions are mine, no
U S WEST Advanced Technologies  one elses, and certainly not USWEST's!
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
From: 76206.2342@compuserve.COM (WILLIAM KYLE)
Subject: Pennsic Prattle
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:31:50 GMT

By now you have been bombarded by Pennsic advice and preparation.  Some
of you may not even receive this issue till you return from Pennsic.
Yes, this is more Pennsic prattle, but please read it anyway.

Over the past several Pennsics I have attended (XXVII being my first),
I have noticed a very disturbing trend.  Many have lost the true
meaning of Pennsic, at least in my opinion of the true meaning,
FRIENDSHIP.

Pennsic is the one event each year that is truly special.  It is the
one event to go to and meet old friends and make new ones.  Who wins
the war is not that important, having fun with friends from all over
the Known World is the bottom line.

You see people you only meet once a year for the most part.  You have
a chance to shop for items which are hard to find in most areas of the
country.  You meet new friends who may become lifelong friends.  You
have a chance to listen to music and songs from individuals who are
very talented, and some not so talented.  You get to share ideas for
garb and concepts for future events from though out the SCA.  You have
a chance to attend classes and learn new things or re-learn things you
have forgotten.  It is your one chance a year to truly "get away from
it all and relax".

To throw this opportunity away on arguments about who has the best
fighters, best archers, and the other many "trivial" things people like
to argue about, is a real waste of time.  Pennsic is there to enjoy the
friendship and fellowship of many people who share the same interests.

Many of us, myself especially, sometimes feel no one is out there who
understands us.  Pennsic shows us there are many others like us and we
do not have to feel alone in the world.  There are many people who
share the same interests and philosophies we have.  There are people
who want to learn from each other and share common knowledge of the
many subjects we have interest in.

The fighting is fun, archery is fun, shopping is fun, but the
friendships made and enjoyed by all last a lot longer in memories and
are much more valuable then the couple hours beating on each other.
To coin a phrase "Annual Enemies, Eternal Friends" is the true meaning
of Pennsic, especially for me is the "Eternal Friends" part.  Let us
keep the friendship strong.

======================================================================

Lord Cahan Kyle of Clan Kyle                  If it's on the plate
East Kingdom                                  it's food, if it moves
MCI Mail 418-0342
From: wew@naucse.cse.nau.edu (Bill Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Rapier Combat
Date: 22 Jul 92 22:16:17 GMT

From article <BrsrMC.Gy4@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>, by aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher):
> In article <1992Jul21.171615.14024@husc3.harvard.edu> feland@husc9.Harvard.EDU (Andrew Feland) writes:
> 
>>So, where does one get a good rapier around here, anyway?
>>Any ideas?
> 

My partner and I are setting up a company to supply rapiers and
other equipment for reasonable prices and in a reasonable amount
of time.  Our low priced swords are mass produced and we also
provide custom swords with whatever type of blade you would like.
We can even supply real rapier blades made to order.  If you
are interested send a SASE to:

C.R. Designs
Box 1215
Flagstaff, AZ 86001
From: smelvin@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (The Black Bard  )
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Poem by the Black Bard
Date: 30 Jul 92 21:06:58 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego


                     SO YOU WISH TO BE A BARD
                                By Rathflaed DuToutNoir
                                The Black Bard of Meridies 
                                mka: Stephen R Melvin

So you wish to be a bard young one, well listen to my tale,
A tale that's riddled with success, and yet the times that I have failed.
A storyteller tell his tales until the morning light,
Each line and verse the one that you'll remember through the night.
A troubadour will sing and play to make people laugh or weep,
And feel the feelings he does feel, until they go to sleep.
A musician has the talent to make music with his art,
And let his songs reverberate to touch the mind and heart. 
A minstrel must do all these things and do them very well,
But a bard must also do them, and between, tis hard to tell.
For a minstrel and a bard could be the same in word and voice,
But the difference between the two is a matter of their choice.
A minstrel's job to entertain, a bard's to educate,
To urge the men on for honor and love, and not for malice or hate.
A minstrel will sing only songs to please his audience well,
A bard must choose most carefully, the tales that he will tell.
For in your words you have the pow'r, to make or break a man,
And all his good and evil deeds are yours to praise or damn.
So use your power carefully, and wisely use your art,
For though they might prefer a minstrel's voice, tis you must touch their
heart.
And if the talent is not yours, to move the souls of men,
Then call yourself a minstrel, and no dishonor do intend.
For when a bard does sing a song,the story they do hear,
And yet the choice is for a minstrel when the song must please the ear.
So entertain, young minstrel, or educate, young bard,
But either path of either life, you'll find may be too hard.
For when the storm is blowing and the rain comes down in sheets,
Tis ten more leagues that you must go to sing for bread and meat.
And when the road is lonely, and you have no place called home,
Remember that it was your choice, to travel and to roam,
And when you think of lady loves and all the things you lack,
Remember sir, the one you always carry on your back,
And remember too, this one last thing, when your journey you begin,
A minstrel does not scream or shout to carry o'er the din,
A bard is not a storyteller or harper playing long,
A minstrel's job it is to sing, a bard's to be the song.

                                        30 Jul 92


My Opinions!  Mine, mine, mine!  If anyone else wants on, that's
fine, but do not think that I'm telling you how to be a bard.
You'll have to learn that on your own as do we all.  (I'm only a
journeyman bard after all...;))

Have a fine, fair, day...
Rathflaed
-- 
Rathflaed DeToutNoir              Bards make the best lays!!   
The Black Bard of Meridies         -Me 
mka: Stephen R Melvin
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca