From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:    I am giving up on the Amiga
Distribution: world
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:15:27 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <mykes.0c6g@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>In article <root.028b@rkamiga.UUCP> root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
>> In article <mykes.0bsd@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>> >In article <root.027z@rkamiga.UUCP> root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
>> >> In article <mykes.0bj3@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>> >> >In article <torrie.712890026@Xenon.Stanford.EDU> torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes:
>> >> >>   How much for a Dell EISA machine?  It was Dell vs Apple that we were
>> >> >> comparing.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >$300 more than for the ISA machines.  No local bus video - YET.
>> >>
>> >> How is the local bus video implemented?  Is it built into the motherboard
>> >> or is it a dedicated slot?  If it is a dedicated slot, is there an industry
>> >> standard for it?  How well does the local bus video work with current UNIX
>> >> packages?
>> >>
>> >
>> >Localbus is built into the motherboard.  There is no industry wide standard
>> >for localbus slots - YET (there WILL be).  There is a 32-bit data path to
>> >the localbus video, or so it claims on the Dell D/50 and P/50 flyers I
>> >picked up...   Considering Dell makes Unix and Dell makes the machine,
>> >expect it to work :)  I see nothing that makes this implementation of
>> >localbus video to be incompatible with any other SVGA (i.e. the "standard")
>> >implementation.
>> >
>> >> I need yet another UNIX box, and I'll probably buy Dell SVR4.  It might
>> >> make sense for me to buy a complete PC + UNIX package from Dell.
>> >
>> >FWIW, many people suggest other flavors of Unix which are cheaper :)
>>
>> Dell has fixed the most bugs in SVR4.  Some of the cheaper SVR4 packages
>> are just straight compiled USL sources.  Dell also includes all the good
>> stuff from GNU, ready to run.
>>
>> If I buy a Dell box, I can get the full Dell SVR4 with unlimited user
>> license for $795.  This is per their latest price list.
>>
>
>I bought the Dell box, and I like it very much - even better than my A3000.
>Not because it is new - the colorful GUI, superhires 1024x768 graphics, and
>the 17" monitor make it a pleasure to sit in front of.  I decided to run
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'll bet! :-)

>DOS 5 and windows on it after using both OS/2 and Windows.   I try to stay
>away from command.com as much as possible and stay in the windows environment
>and it is working out well for me.

You can always buy the MKS Toolkit for about $150, and have a DOS command
interface that uses the korn shell, has lots of UNIX compatible tools, and
uses '/' for the directory separator.

>I installed OS/2 - fullblown, and it is a marvelous piece of work.  Too bad
>there aren't enough OS/2 specific apps to make it useful.  As well, I called
>IBM to ask if I could get the 1024x768 mode to work and they told me that
>this mode is NOT supported by OS/2.  And I was unhappy with the way it jumped
>me in and out of full-screen stand-alone Windows and Command.com sessions when
>I clicked on various icons...  And borland C++ crashed under it in every way
>I tried - commandline, windows environment, and dos environment.  So I gave
>up on OS/2 for now.

There are lots of 1024x768 PD drivers out there for OS/2.  And there is
supposed to be a supplemental disk of SVGA drivers coming from IBM at
some point.

>For what it's worth - if OS/2 were well supported (IMO, it is NOT), it would
>be the finest OS on the planet.  The GUI is wonderful - the desktop buries
>Amiga OS' workbench.  The on-line documentation is a joy to use.  The whole
>experience reminded me of the Indigos I have seen close up.
>
>I shocked a few people on IRC by quitting and rebooting OS/2 a few times
>to prove how fast the Dell machine really is.  They claimed OS/2 was slow -
>but not in my experience.  8Meg of RAM probably helped :)

It boots pretty fast on a 386/33.

>All in all, I'd bet that the Unix Dell sells works quite well and the machine
>will be quite snappy.  The only thing I don't like is that it is a 25MHz
>DX2 instead of a true 50MHz machine.  Can't have everything, though :)

Dell SVR4 is about the best shrink wrapped UNIX out there for the PC.

>Lastly, Dell is 100% manufactured in the USA.  Perhaps the RAM chips aren't,
>but the CPU (intell) and the machine (Dell) are USA made.  Dell has excellent
>customer and technical support and the people I talked to on the phone were
>very friendly.  Dell is in Texas, USA.  (CBM is in PA, but also manufacturs
>in the Philapenes).
>
>> It may be a good deal, depending on the hardware cost.
>>
>
>If you are stuck on Unix, go for it.  You can get TCP/IP/NFS drivers in the
>PD (for dos/windows), linux is PD, too.  If you already have Unix, you might
>want to broaden your horizons a little, but this is my humble opinion... :)

Between 1985 and 1989 I spent thousands of hours hacking MSDOS code on a
XT that I had.  The best thing about it was Turbo C.  I'm totally burned
out on MSDOS or anything related to it.  I have no interest in taking up
disk space with that stuff.

>> When I'm finished, I'll have my Amiga 2000 talking to my current UNIX box
>> with DNET, and the 2 UNIX boxes talking to each other with TCP/IP.  I'll
>> be able to sit in front of one keyboard and use 3 machines.
>>
>
>Well, I have a Sun 3/60 set up and ready to install Unix on it.  I ordered
>an ethernet card and software for the Amiga...  A fine ethernet board for the
>PC is about $150.  I will end up with all three machines and 3 different OSes
>at my fingertips - instead of just 2.  Makes for a few more apps for me to use.

I've been looking at used Sun 3's my self.  

--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy