HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Fear of Success (was Re: Oregon poll)
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:37:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Oct6.193709.25481
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <BvpFIw.J4@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:
>Latest statewide poll of 600 Oregon voters on measure 9:
>   62% NO
>   33% yes
>   5%  undecided
>
>In Portland, no on 9 is running at 71% with 4% undecided.

I read an article in the Bay Area Reporter (an S.F. area gay
weekly) about Measure 9. The article was desperate to paint a
portrait of impending doom, and it's kind of hard to do that when
the measure is *losing by two to one*. So, it had the headline
"mixed poll results in Oregon" and covered *two* polls. One was
the scientific statewide poll with the aforementioned results.
The other was a non-scientific (nay, anti-scientific) poll; it
was a poll of people who called a television station to express
an opinion. OCA types predictably flooded the station with calls,
and the "poll" showed Measure 9 narrowly passing.

Shyeeah. Let's lighten up, everyone. Measure 9 is going down in
flames. I, for one, grok a great wellness.
-- 
Andrew M. Solovay       "Work is the curse of the drinking class."
solovay@netcom.com			--Wilde

#include <disclaimer.h>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cjlee@netcom.com (Caroline Jean Lee)
Subject: Re: My Very Own Out List
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 03:50:06 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

This is perhaps a trivial reason to demuffin, but George Takei is queer ?!?
Please, I'm dying to know more!  I was a minor Star Trek fan in my
TV-watching days, plus I don't know of any Asians in the public realm who are
out (maybe others can enlighten me).

Caroline
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Camille Paglia on fashion (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:31:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.135759.18257@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>>"These establishment feminists are elitists.  They literally believe that
>>the people are being brainwashed.  That the homemakers who are buying the
>>fashion magazines are weak and gullible and allow people to brainwash tem.

>	Yes and no.  This must be a new version of
>the word "elitist" that I was not previously aware of.

Notatall.  The notion that somehow we're smarter than the
foolish masses who buy and believe, and that we are above
being manipulated by the fashion czars and the media is
terribly elitist.  I tend to agree with Paglia (shhhhhh!)
on this, although I find the fashion industry problematic.
--
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: astrology and YOU
Date: 4 Oct 92 20:01:21 GMT
	    <15873@umd5.umd.edu>
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <15873@umd5.umd.edu> jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:

>Brian Kane (kane@buast7.bu.edu) wrote of astrology:

>> Well, it's not a true science if we constrain sciences to follow
>> the scientific method.

>One of the more stunning tautologies I've seen
>in quite some time.

Thanks! And if you wish to see what ELSE I have that is "taut", I'll
be happy to demonstrate!

Brian

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,
Boston, MA 02215. True personal salvation is achieved by absolute faith in
ones true self.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Subject: Re: Them New Faces (Was: Re: As long as you're still here)
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 01:31:24 GMT

mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
>I want to make special noises about some of the new women's voices
>that I've seen here.  And now I have the double dilemma-- not only
>do I not want to leave anyone out, but I don't want to mention
>someone as new who has actually been around as long as I have.

One of my most treasured Usenet.moments was when an enthusiastic
new poster from Ireland welcomed _me_ to soc.motss.

(Ciaran, are you listening?  :-))

--
Ellen Keyne Seebacher            elle@midway.uchicago.edu
 "There is _no_ Mara. _No_ cabal, _no_ pods, ...and _no_ plot to overtake the
  world, turning it into a purely queer world where the only procreation done
  is via bisexuals and insemination. Nope. Lies, all of it." --John Dorrance
From: randyc@autodesk.com (Randy Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Phyllis Schaffly's son John . . . COMES OUT NATIONALLY!
Date: 29 Sep 92 03:10:42 GMT
Organization: Autodesk, Inc., Sausalito, CA


In article <72836@apple.Apple.COM> mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>randyc@autodesk.com (Randy Clark) writes:
>
>[how EVIL! <whine> <whine> REPUGNANT! <whine> IGNORANT! <whine>]
>
>And then:
>
>>	<Further stuff deleted because it was not only
>>	whiny but homophobic.>
>
>You piss, for far too many paragraphs,

	Oy, and now he wants to be an editor!

	As a matter of fact, it was my mailer that insisted on
	additional paragraphs; my first draft was more terse.

>about how the government and corporate America are out to get you,

	Not even close.  You're projecting your own attitude
	onto what I wrote.  I happen to be in much the same
	situation as you -- gay-supportive employer, home in
	SF.  No one has been out to get me for a long time that
	I'm aware of.

	I *was* pointing out, as was Charley, that "our" government
	and many corporations have indeed done such harrassment.
	And it still does go on (the government isn't going after
	private citizens these days, but I can remember when it did).

>and then complain that *I* am the one who is whining?

	Yes.  Still.

	However, I saw your toning down of what you said in
	a subsequent post, so I do give you credit for that.
	Believe it or not, I don't *always* disagree with you.

	-R


--
Ignorant people think it's the *noise* which fighting cats make
that is so aggravating, but it ain't so; it's the sickening
grammar they use.  -- Mark Twain
Randy Clark			{}!autodesk.com!randyc
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: astrology and accounting and YOU
From: mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us (mike batchelor)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 92 14:07:51 PDT
Distribution: world               
Organization: The Batchelor Pad

kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
>
> In article <1992Oct2.201816.4344@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
> gsmith@lauren.uucp (Gene W. Smith) writes:
> 
> >How come astronomers complain about astrology, but number theorists
> >never complain about numerology?  Mysteries, mysteries...
> 
> dunno...can't "account" for this discrepancy!  <groan>

That's because there is an unseen tenth planet perturbing the orbits
of the outer gas giants.



[] ---
[] Mike Batchelor <> Long Beach, California
[] mike@batpad.lgb.ca.us <or> mikebat@qdeck.com
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Camille Paglia on fashion (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:23:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct2.192314.29579
Organization: insert anything here

shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>>jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>>>"These establishment feminists are elitists.  They literally believe that
>>>the people are being brainwashed.  That the homemakers who are buying the
>>>fashion magazines are weak and gullible and allow people to brainwash tem.

>>	Yes and no.  This must be a new version of
>>the word "elitist" that I was not previously aware of.

>Notatall.  The notion that somehow we're smarter than the
>foolish masses who buy and believe, and that we are above
>being manipulated by the fashion czars and the media is
>terribly elitist.  I tend to agree with Paglia (shhhhhh!)
>on this, although I find the fashion industry problematic.

	Hmmmmmm. OK - I didn't see it in those terms.
Thanks for the enlightenment.

BBC
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: stephena@netcom.com (Stephen Arrants)
Subject: Re: gay science fiction (and a moment of shamelessness...)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:32:38 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.023256.13200@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <1ao5fgINNj28@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>>Not to mention bestiality and great storylines, BTW ...
>
>Well, anthropoid bestiality anyway...
>
>>Elf's journal was the first time I was actually aroused when reading about
>>two men making love.  Rather cool.
>
>Really?  It made me swear off screwing anyone with a tail, furry ears
>and a first name with an apostrophe in it.

Hmm......Where DO you go to meet people?
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Explaining yourself
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:36:22 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

ro@panix.com (r l reid) writes:

 >What I even less like is that when I order non-meat dishes, someone
 >always wants you to explain your reason for not eating meat - even
 >if it's just at this meal.  (Of course, after that I can be quizzed
 >on why being mono-gendered isn't enough to "satisfy" me).

Well, dear, if you're going to live the weird lifestyle, you have to
be prepared to satisfy other people's curiosity about you.  That's
life.

Mara [who is confident that Ro will read this in the spirit in which
it's intended, but isn't very sure about the rest of soc.motss]


-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gsmith@lauren.uucp (Gene W. Smith)
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Organization: IWR, University of Heidelberg, Germany
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 92 13:25:17 GMT

In article <67145@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:

>It makes perfect sense to me -- if they look like a
>prepubescent girl on steroids, they start acting like one.

Lieber Gott!  This is frightening--where do you meet all these prepubescent
girls on steroids?  Why are they taking steroids?  What does a ten-year
old girl do during a Roid Rage?

I'm not ready for the twenty-first century yet.

-- 
     Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/IWR/Ruprecht-Karls University 
               gsmith@kalliope.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Gai Pied to cease publication, and Sunday Brunch 
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:58:16 GMT

In article <gph@kaa.gr.osf.org> emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:
>The French weekly gay magazine _Gai Pied_ will publish its last issue
>on the 29th of October.  The reasons for its closure are apparently
>mostly financial.  This will leave France without a
>politically-oriented national gay publication.

What is the non-political national gay publication? 

Also, a couple of bay area motssers will be in Paris in November.  What do
you nice Parisians have planned to entertain us?


-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
From: ro@panix.com (r l reid)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: TERMS OF ENDEARMENT
Date: 27 Sep 92 03:26:03 GMT
Organization: Playdoh's Republic

rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

>I mean I like the double dactyls...

Yeah, me too.  Too bad they're extinct.
-- 
		r l reid	ro@panix.com
From: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Toys 'r' Us
Keywords: Whee!
Date: 1 Oct 92 16:20:17 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <thaaang.717833484@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>Do you have a favorite sex toy? Have you ever given a sex toy a nickname?
>What criterion do you use in choosing a sex toy (besides size, of course) -
>does color come into consideration? Heft? Smell? Have you ever used sex
>toys in your decorating?
 Well, it depends.  Usually, I could care less about color, but heft does
indeed make a difference, if it's a heavier dildo, it's easier to use
usually in my expereinces, but lighter ones are more fun on other people, 
easier to wield, move, etc...Smell, only if they're leather.  I really
don't like the smell of latex, although a chrome-aroma can be fun.(this
has been a debated subject with some friends of mine, does chrome smell?  
I think it's got a tinge of scent myself, but maybe it's just imagination.)
As far as in my decorating, well, until this weekend I worked at the 
Leather Shoppe here in Albuquerque, and I used toys there for decorating the
shop.  
>
>And lube - have you eroticized the flavor of nonoxynol-9 yet? Do you
>comparison shop? Would your lube shopping experience be more pleasurable
>if they allowed sampling? And is Wet still available (I have to go into
>Iowa to buy lube at all, and I haven't seen Wet there lately; a shame,
>since I really like the taste, especially when compared with Elbow Grease,
>the kind I'm using now (well, not *right* now))? What's you're favorite
>kind?
 I find myself allergic to nonox-9, soi I don't use any of the lubes with it. 
I also find that I'm allergic to some of the flavored lubes, (There are some
bizzare allergies in my family, and some really bad ones, like to shell-fish,
this is not an insult or a joke, I can't eat crabs unless I want to go to the
hospital, and many seafoods make me violently ill.)  But I have experimented 
with several of the flavored ones, and have found that the Joy Jeyy by Doc
Johnson does not make me sick, and is fairly nice.  I like the strawberry,
myself, but then I looooooove strawberries anyway.    DO I comparison shop, 
well, not anymore, except for price.  I also have found that some of the 
massage gells and oils that are flavored (also massage butters) can be lots
of fun, but try not to mix their use with leather, as some of them do stain
cloth, but then they usually warn you first, but who wants discolored 
leather?  Wet is still available, at least we still get it here in Alb, 
but I don't know if it's just one of those they've got lots in the warehouse
deals  or not.  
>
>John, redirecting conversation
 Into a very nice direction I must say.
Flapjack,
"Yes, I'm bi - both top and bottom."
or as my daughter says:
"Yes I'm bi - I just buy buy buy."
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: adye@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE (Alan Dye)
Subject: Need Non-Discrim Policy Info
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:16:52 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]


Hi,

My Alma Mater (Idaho State University) as well as the other two major
Idaho Universities (Boise State, and U of I) are working to pass non-discrim
policies on each of their campuses.

These policy changes are being driven by the GALA groups on the various
campuses, as well as some very wonderful people who are not necessarily
GALA members.

Since I am a recent grad, (May, 92) I am still very interested in seeing
these issues addressed.  Unfortunately, we all have run into some roadblocks 
from administration.  Particularly at ISU, University Counsel (in the person
of K. Wiltbanks) claims that the issue is not legally defendable, and has
advised the University President not to pass a binding proposition.  

Since the administration is unsure, (read as 'stalling') the ASISU (Student)
Senate has passed a 'letter of intent' on the issue.  Additionally, the
Faculty Senate has passed a 'letter of intent' as well.  This letter basically
says that they do not 'intend' to discriminate.  A great start, but not
legally binding.

What we need:

Any information from you that can help.  If you have been through such a
process at your place of employment, or at your University, and have any
information that can help, please post it here, or mail to me.  Helpful
items would include copies of your policy, relevant experiences, etc...

PLEASE REALIZE that this information will be given to the local GALA groups
to utilize in their work.  This means that copies would be given to 
Administration at their respective Universities to scrutinize.  If you are
uncomfortable with giving your name, I will remove it before forwarding it
on to the GALA groups, if you request it.

Thanks in advance,

Alan
--
___________________________________________________________________________
Alan W. Dye   PHONE: (208) 323-6167        adye%hpdmd48.boi@hp.com
    
Software Applications Specialist           "Cleverness is its own reward."
Hewlett Packard Boise Site Operations  
Information Systems Group                  #include <disclaim.h>
From: laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ours flamb'e
Date: 5 Oct 92 10:26:00 GMT
Reply-To: laura@hoptoad.UUCP (Laura Creighton)
Organization: Nebula Consultants in San Francisco

In article <67137@cup.portal.com> Minotaur@cup.portal.com (Frank - Swilling) writes:
>Laura Creighton, who doesn't realize that she's in a coma,
>dreaming the whole thing, sez, regarding the SF heat wave:
>
>>Oh, hell, and I thought it was my 106 degree fever which was
>>driving it all up. rats! glad to get back, gang...
>
>>Laura
>
>Eek!  106 degrees?  Quick Arnold, give us a recipe for Boiled Brains!
>What a feast we have in store:  Boiled Brain de Laura and Poached Pod
>du Cabal, with a nice Anti-Cabal Antipasto. My, my, soc.motss is going
>to turn me into a gastronomic heavyweight yet.
>
>But seriously, Laura, what happened to you and are you over it?

I don't know what happened to me.  I got up on Saturday, ready to
go to Rob's Memorial.  And I felt really, really, lousy.
And I thought -- no big deal, Rob's dead, no wonder I feel lousy.
So I wandered around the house, made tea, went to get the morning
paper, and fell headlong down the flight of stairs that lead to the
front door.  I still have various assorted bruises.

At this point I thought that it might be a fine idea to take
my temperature.  104.  I left a short message that I wouldn't
be coming and went to bed.  12 hours later, about 6 pm, I woke
up.  Took my temperature again.  106.  All the worst
symptoms of flu and cold.  Awful.  Three days of it.  Then on
Tuesday I felt somewhat better.  I caught up on old business,
posted a article, and then, wham, the whole lot back again for
2 more days of hell.

I'm still coughing, but my temperature is fine.   It turns out
that three of my friends with whom I went to dinner with 2 Thursdays
ago are all down with the same thing, though so far I have set the
friendly neighbourhood record for both high temperature and days
when you could not get out of bed.

Right now the coughing is terribly annoying,  but it is the
2 inch diamater circular bruise on my arm which is really hurting.

There's a terrible flu going around right now.
In California, the flu shots are out.  Get your flu shots before
they all run out.  YOU DON'T WANT TO CATCH THIS ONE.

coughingly,
Laura

-- 
    Since Ryan White was buried in April 1990, his grave has been vandalized
    four times.

    (this news courtesy Rod Williams rjwill6@pacbell.com)

Laura Creighton 
toad@toad.com
hoptoad!laura
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: enough already.
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:33:09 GMT

I was going to get into this, and then changed my mind (I've already
said my piece, anyway). But one thing took me aback slightly, namely
when Nelson wrote:

> >For those of you keeping track of the motss.black-list, you
> >might want to look at the names that were on there in times
> >past.  You'll find me, and maybe John Dorrance, and probably
> >a few others that might surprise you.

and Jess responded:

> I can remember exactly one instance for each of you, neither
> amounting black-listing, neither drawing *general*
> opprobrium from the cohort.  But I suppoe I would be less
> motivated than you to remember, too.

Well, Jess's memory (or possibly that of his disk, I wouldn't know) is
better than mine, since I don't remember what Nelson is talking about
at all. At a guess, he probably said something that irritated some of
the more seasoned folk, and they let him have it. To someone
relatively new to the net, it probably felt a lot like what's been
said to Melmon, Sarver, etc. recently.

But, Nelson, love, the big difference is that you (and JD, too, in
whatever instance) had the sense not to turn it into a pissing
contest. It's the insistence by all parties concerned on having the
last word that drives the noise and nastiness levels up to
near-intolerable. We've got some other instances of that going on at
the moment, involving only long-time posters, in case anyone has
failed to notice.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus)
Subject: Re: Results of Sexual Orientation---Handedness Surveys!
Organization: Open Software Foundation Research Institute, Grenoble
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 21:34:06 GMT

kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
>So, the results seem to suggest that gay men and lesbians are more likely to
>be left handed.
>
>However, there is no indication that the converse is true. Left-handers
>appear to be just as likely to be gay or lesbian as do right-handers and
>ambidextrous folk.

These two statements are logically contradictory.  If homosexuals are
more likely to be lefthanded then lefthanders are more likely to be
homosexual.

,
Eamonn Patrick McManus
camp means cranium knot
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: 6 Oct 1992 15:15:14 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In response to this comment of mine:

> > Marlene Dietrich (want to talk icons, baby?) 
> > put her finger on the difference between herself 
> > and Madonna: "I acted vulgar; she *is* vulgar".  
> > Madonna is the Jayne Mansfield of the '80s and,
> > if we're really unlucky, '90s.

a wide-body automobile wrote:

> Almost predictable.  But what would Marlene Dietrich be today
> (other than an old woman)? 

Dietrich happens not only to be very dead today,
but just as potent an icon as she ever was in life.

> Neither as good an actress as Merle
> Streep (sp?) nor as good an icon as Madonna.  

Meryl Streep is your idea of a good actress?  It figures.
And I would suggest you find out what an icon *is* before you
start asserting that Madonna is one.  What a laugh.

> Dietrich may have
> 'acted' vulgar, in her day (even earlier, I suppose, than your day...),
> but in the here and now, she'd be anything but vulgar.  On a good
> day, she'd be quaint.  On a bad day, passe.  

I'm talking about icons and you're talking about successful
mass marketing.  I wonder if Madonna's image (oh, say, the
Like a Virgin Tour space-titted model) will remain fresh
for the next 60-odd years in the same way that Dietrich's image
in Blue Angel has over the *last* 60-odd.  *Something* tells me
that it won't.  Will any of Madonna's scenes in any of her
movies -- pick one -- retain the power to shock and titillate
and delight 62 years from now in the same way that Dietrich's 
opening number in Morocco (released in 1930) still has today?
I doubt it.

> Madonna is just 'acting'
> vulgar - same sense, different decade.

You couldn't possibly be more wrong.

You want icons?  Try these:

> Greta Garbo and Monroe,
> Dietrich and DiMaggio.
> Marlon Brando, Jimmy Dean.
>
> On the cover of a magazine...

As I said before, Madonna is the Jayne Mansfield of the 
'80s and '90s, and if you don't know what that means, then
you have absolutely no business talking about who is or
is not an icon.

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss