From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: Just laughing at England
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:28:06 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

tedwards@cam.nad.northrop.com (Tony Edwards) writes:

>OK which league is better the Scotish Premier or the English Premier
>Well since they dont play each on a regular basis, how about we compare 
>the past history in Europe lets say over the last 20 years. That should give
>us a real idea on who has the better overall record (Does anyone have that 
>information). We could compare the number of winners each country has had
>in the three major European Cups, This would give us a good overal picture.

All that would tell you is who could adapt best to the European style of 
football best.
Undoubtedly English clubs, in particular Liverpool, with a few others like
Notts Forest Man Untd etc.
The only Scottish club to win at European level in the last 20 years is
Aberdeen, though I have hazy memories of Rangers winning something maybe
20 years ago against Moscow Dynamo methinks.

It would be an unfair comparison anyway as English clubs were banned from
Euro competitions for a number of years after their fans ran amock at
Heysel and elsewhere, so there was only Scottish (and Irish, dunno about
Welsh clubs?) in the competitions.

>And you can not have a real battle of Britain unless it the two winners of
>the leagues right after the season is over. Because if Leeds were the best 
>team in England they would be top now not 12th wouldnt they.

True, and if one side one the other would inevitably yell "We wuz robbed",
bad referee, a clear penalty, etc etc.

>And if you want we could throw in the other countries to find out Europes
>best league overall. 

Italy, and I don't think you'd find many disagreeing with that.

>and then maybe the bickering will stop 

Nah!! Then we couldn't have fun when all the Usenet predictors of English
glory get it wrong and have a "Laugh at England".
We couldn't have that now could we?

The trouble is that there is a streak of arrogant assumption in the English
media that somehow England is the best football nation in the world and
have the best leagues, or at the very least, on a par with Europe's best.
n Scotland, we are supplied by the BBC (or EBC as Scott prefers to call it)
and ITV, both largely English based companies and we are forever having rammed
down our throats Sportsnight with articles on how great England are, Saint
and Greavsie with how great England are, Grandstand and Jimmy Hill on how
great England are, John Motson and how great England are....you get the idea?
They then follow it up by stuffing it full of English sports like cricket
Badminton horse trials (ho hum), darts (yawn!), snooker (zzzzzz!) etc.
I don't recall having ever seen shinty, or curling on them.
These are networked programs intended for the consumption of Britain as a 
whole and not just England and it gets rather tiresome having this same line
pushed at you again and again.

This is the closest we, in Scotland, get to knowing what the English supporter
thinks of their own team and have to conclude that this is the popular view
amongst English supporters at large.

Of course there are some English posters here who say the media is full of
crap, but equally there are posters who appear to go along with it and make
bold predictions. Therefore it gives us great delight to see England come
a cropper as in Sweden or the Leeds Rangers game. Funny thing is, all those
who say the media is full of crap only seem to do so AFTER England or an
English team has not lived up to the hype. Oh well..

If truth be told, the the English Premier *probably* is better than the 
Scottish Premier, most of the clubs in the bottom half of the Scottish Premier
wouldn't be able to hold their own in the English Premier, but, the English
Premier is chock full of Scots while the SCots Premier is chock full of
English so make of that what you will.


Dave
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