HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:48:02 EDT
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Requesting books through ILL

Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
Phone: 588-6757

I work at a library and part of my work deals with ILL.  It doesn't matter
if it's a Christian book or not, the request is processed in the same way.
What is the book that you're trying to get?  I must have missed that post,
or something.  At any rate, whether or not a book is loaned out (or even
requested from another library) depends on how old it is, and it's
availability from other libraries.  Libraries decide whether or not to
lend out a book based on it's age (too old or too young), whether it's
readily available (not checked out, etc.), it's useage in the library
(high-use books are usually not loaned out), etc.  This probably has nothing
to do with what you wanted to know, but I thought I'd clear up (or muddle
up?) how ILL requests are handled. Hope this helps a little!
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: timk@world.std.com (Tim King)
Subject: Re: Fact?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 01:51:15 GMT

>In each case, findings are subject to future reevaluation.  In no case you have
>presented here are the conclusions made claimed to be absolutely true for all
>time, as you claim for your God and Bible.

>Dan

Exactly.  I'm not sure from your response whether you agree with me or not,
but what you said was essentially what I was trying to get at.  I don't
think you understood my point; maybe it wasn't clear.

I thought I said several times that I was planning on making subsequent
posts to back up my assertions.  In other words, that was only the
introduction (or maybe the first chapter).  This discussion needs to
be broken up, since otherwise it would be much too long.

In the "Introduction," my goal was to establish what the definition of "fact"
is and how we establish facts.  I also wanted to clarify where proof, or
justification, enters the picture and how it applies to our reasoning
process.  My basic point was that God's existence is indeed factual
regardless of what some may say.  I intend to present evidence to that
effect.  In other words, such evidence *does* exist.  But regardless of
whether we accept the evidence or not, God is still real, and He's still
on the throne.

-Tim
-- 
Tim King                  |-_      |
Dedham, MA                |  -|    |    Make mine music!
timk@world.std.com       <>   |   <>
(617) 890-2929 x137          <>
From: mueller@owlnet.rice.edu (Ernest Conrad Mueller)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Already read Prophet
Date: 22 Jul 1992 19:46:19 GMT
Organization: Rice University

Since I note people talking about Prophet, I wondered if anyone
has already read it and wants to discuss it.  There seems to be 
very little "Christian fiction" about (not including the cheesy
quasi-romance novels).  Besides Peretti's books (and CS Lewis of course)
the only other thing I have read is "A Vision of Light," which may
or may not be sold in Christian bookstores but is nonetheless Christian
and very good.  

Remember, if you are posting information about a book that someone who hasn't 
read it doesn't want to know, say "Spoiler" in the subject line,
and if possible put a pagebreak at the head of an article with a warning.

Ernest Mueller
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 07:28:51 CST
From:         CXKJP%UTXDP.BITNET@UTXVM.CC.UTEXAS.EDU
Subject:      RE: Amy Grant
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.

One more opinion:

  I consider Amy's music to be 100% Biblical in light of the
Old Testament book Song of Solomon. God made love, and marriage.
We should celebrate this. Also, how else will we touch lost
souls if we don't communicate with them? Should Christian music
be just for Christians? Or can it be a tool to reach the lost?
If it is to be so, it needs to be  played on secular radio
stations. When people like one song, they sometimes buy the
whole album and get an earful of gospel.
Sometimes they come to us, but most of the time we have to go
to them.

Kim
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: timk@world.std.com (Tim King)
Subject: Re: Spiritual leadership in the home
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 06:19:31 GMT

Has anyone read my post entitled "Husband:Wife :: Christ:Church" lately?

-Tim
-- 
Tim King                  |-_      |
Dedham, MA                |  -|    |    Make mine music!
timk@world.std.com       <>   |   <>
(617) 890-2929 x137          <>
From: mjg@cs.nott.ac.uk (Michael Groves)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Already read Prophet
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:26:26 GMT
Organization: Nottingham University

In article <CHRISTIA%92072310480223@ASUACAD.BITNET> Lon Mendelsohn <LMENDELS@WAYNEST1.BITNET> writes:
>Regarding the originality of Peretti's novelization of spiritual warfare --
>
>While he does a very good job at it, the idea of depicting the events of
>this world as a manifestation of spiritual warfare is not new.  C.S.
>Lewis did it in _That Hideous Strength_, the third book of his space
>trilogy.  While I have never read any of Charles Williams' novels, I
>understand that he did much the same thing.
>
>Shalom,
>
>Lon Mendelsohn

Williams' novels often concerned spiritual warfare, but it is never as
overt or explicit as in Peretti's work. C.S. Lewis was strongly 
influenced by Williams during the 1940s (Williams died in 1945), and you
can see that in Lewis' space trilogy. The first two novels were written
without that influence (some people see the hero Ransom as being based on
Tolkien), but _That Hideous Strength_ is very different in style. Ransom,
now The Pendragon, is more like Charles Williams than Tolkien. Williams
was into the Arthurian Legends and this influenced Lewis and is brought out
in That Hideous Strength.

Both Williams and Lewis were influenced by the Victorian writer 
George MacDonald who also wrote about spiritual warfare. 

Williams fascinates me, he influenced a large number of people including
Lewis, T.S. Eliot, W.H. Auden, Dorothy Sayers and Anne Ridler and yet his 
own work is relatively unknown.

I've read most of Williams work and would highly recommend it. It can be 
a bit heavy at times but well worth it. Read his novels first, his poetry 
is a bit obscure in places even for me! I've still to progress on to 
MacDonald.

If anyone knows of any UK bookshops that have stocks of Williams work
(new or second hand), let me know. I'm still missing a few of his works.

Thanks

Mike Groves
University of Nottingham
UK
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: University of Missouri-Columbia Campus Computing, 314-882-2000
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:28:39 CDT
From:         Elizabeth Stevens <CCCAMPER@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Amy Grant and her "Crossover" Music
              27 Jul 1992 16:50:32 EDT from <LSMITH@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU>

On Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:50:32 EDT <LSMITH@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU> said:
>Sure, writing a song about your baby is edifying in the terms of a person excer
>sising the gift of Love that God has given us, but as I said - I have a problem
> with songs that straddle the fence.  It should not be that a person has to rea
>d an article in a magazine to find out EXACTLY what a person is singing about.

Well, I'm at a disadvantage because I'm not familiar with the lyrics. But I
would guess that its about Love. And our greatest commandment is to love
one another, so lyrics that encourage love seem as though they could still
be proclaiming the Word of God.  ?

> If that's what she wants to do, then fine - but don't call it "Gospel" music.

Is this promoted as Gospel music? I hadn't heard this.

> Gospel music should proclaim the Good News of the Lord - not hide behind the c
>loak of ambiguity in order to make a profit.

Yes, if its called Gospel it should promote the Gospel. But perhaps this can
be done in different ways. As in promoting love. In reaching a broader, non-
Christian audience it would be more effective to somewhat "cloak" the message
so as to not have it rejected immediately.

I'm not sure that making a profit is evil.  Especially by a Christian who
tithes and is a good steward with what is earned, and possibly this is
true of Amy?

To tell you the truth, I was quite interested in Amy Grant appealing to a
broader audience. For this reason, as an example...A few weeks ago Aaron
Neville and the Neville Brothers appeared in our town. The crowd heard
their wonderful mix of music...and they also (to the suprise of many) heard
a great deal of Christian witnessing! The Neville's are liked and respected
and my friend who attended said she was amazed at how well received
their witnessing was by a crowd who came to hear secular music. Aaron
even sang Amazing Grace.

To me Amy Grant has a wonderful potential in building herself up as a singer,
developing a following of fans (assuming many non-Christians), then letting
the Good Word out gently and slowly.

Perhaps her motives are all selfish. Or perhaps God has a mission for her.
Who knows.

In His Love,
Elizabeth
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:18:47 -0600
From:         "Karolyn S. Karge" <kkarge@SILVER.SDSMT.EDU>
Subject:      bible study
X-To:         christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu

Sorry to post this to the list Kerry, but when I tried to e-mail you
personelly, it kept coming back.  I would be more than happy to join
in on a bible study on the network.  I think it would be fun.

In His Love,
Karolyn
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: nlt@gboro.glassboro.edu (N. L. Tinkham)
Subject: Re: Establishment
Summary: England is close, but Virginia is closer.
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Glassboro State College
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 02:30:42 GMT

Darren Provine wrote (quoting me):

> But as my wife Nancy
> pointed out last week, it is important to her that she chose to be
> Episcopalian; had she been born where there was an established
> church, she'd have been Anglican by law and would not have made any
> choice to be Episcopalian.  Being compelled by law to attend an
> Anglican church removes the importance of making the choice.  
[...]
> In the same way, it is important to me that I am an active follower of
> Christ; if the government required Christianity from everybody, then my
> own profession of faith would be meaningless.

Marty Helgesen replied:

> That is true but irrelevant.  Establishment does not necessarily mean
> forcing everyone to attend the established church.  The Church of
> England (The Anglican Church) is established in England, but English-
> men are not required to attend it.

Let me establish the relevance of Darren's comment.

The setting was Colonial Williamsburg, in Bruton Parish Church, an
Anglican/Episcopal church dating from colonial times.  Darren and I,
along with my parents, were visiting the restored historical area, and
we were listening to a talk at the church about religious life in 18th-
century Williamsburg.

At that time, said the speaker, the Church of England was established in
Virginia.  In colonial Virginia, everyone was required by law to pay
tithes, and everyone was required by law to attend the Anglican church
at least once a month.  That's everyone, not just people who agreed with
Anglican teachings and forms of worship.

I was born and raised in southeastern Virginia, not far from Williamsburg.
My parents are Baptists; I grew up Baptist but became an Episcopalian in
graduate school.  And as we listened to the speaker, I imagined what it would
mean to have lived my life in 18th-century Virginia instead of 20th-century
Virginia.  My parents, I suppose, would have attended the obligatory once a
month and then had private meetings with other Baptists.  My decision to
become Anglican would have been a decision to leave this courageous band of
Christians in order to join the church that persecuted them.  And no amount of
theological reasoning could really have purified that decision.

_____________________________________________________________________________

                                              Nancy Tinkham
                                              nlt@gboro.glassboro.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-Vmsmail-To: CHRISTIA
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:48:24 -0700
From:         DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU
Subject:      small miracles
X-To:         christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu

Praise God for small miracles!  I haven't been deluged with 100 christia posts
a day since I set mail again.!!!!!!!

Mark
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:01:41 EDT
From:         Lon Mendelsohn <LMENDELS@WAYNEST1.BITNET>
Subject:      On vacation
X-To:         BSTUDY-L@UTARLVM1.BITNET, IVCF-L@UBVM.BITNET,
              Practical Christian Life <CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET>

Folks --

I'm going on vacation tomorrow, so I have set NOMAIL.  See you all a week
from Monday.

Shalom,

Lon Mendelsohn
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:26:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Fact?

<Exactly.  I'm not sure from your response whether you agree with me or not,
<but what you said was essentially what I was trying to get at.  I don't
<think you understood my point; maybe it wasn't clear.

There may be something somewhere that we agree upon, but if so I don't recall
it.  I don't agree with you on the existence and supremacy of your God, nor do
I agree with you on your definition of the establishment of a fact.

<I thought I said several times that I was planning on making subsequent
<posts to back up my assertions.  In other words, that was only the
<introduction (or maybe the first chapter).  This discussion needs to
<be broken up, since otherwise it would be much too long.

That much was clear, and I await your further posts.   However, I dispute
several of the claims you make in your introduction.

Dan
From: psyrobtw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Changing opinions (Edify)
Date: 29 Jul 92 02:59:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Jul28.192507.354@altair.selu.edu>, scsd1055@altair.selu.edu 
writes to Fritz that....

[...]

>	As far as posting the letter to the list and not to the individuals 
>in question, I have no regrets.  There were countless posting made by people 
>whom are against the issue.  There were times when the comments made were 
>extremely offensive (especially the comments by K.S. & M.H.).  Yet, I have 
>seen no postings from yourself (Fritz) or anyone else, asking them to tone 
>down, therefore I conclude that you are stimulated to respond only when an 
>opinion arises that is contrary to your own. 

Bill,

	The key difference here is that while many of the comments 
made may have been taken by you as offensive, they were not directed 
or written or addressed specifically *to* *you*. In distinction, the 
replies to these general comments have been directly addressed to 
certain people on this list. Your second sentence above even 
underlines this by saying that people were writing against an *issue*.
Yet certain comments in reply to these issue oriented posts have not 
been addressed to the issue, but to the person.

	You would be hard pressed to find a post written by Marty (or 
Kerry for that matter) in which a person on the list is their target.


 en agape,
 Bob 
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: sandi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Sandra L Naylor)
Subject: attorney
Originator: sandi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 21:06:29 GMT

WPCF
2
BVPZ
Courier 10cpi?xxx,x6X@8;X@HP LaserJet IIDHPLASIID.PRSx
@,t0RX@2<D#|xI am interested in finding a good Christian attorney in Wisconsin
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:05:30 EDT
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Repentence

Jstahley,

If you are truely sorry, God will forgive you.  You are not the first Christian
to stumble.  God can and will give you the strength to resist this kind of
temptation again.  You will be prayed for by most or all of us here.  Know that
Christ will not forsake you, because you were weak.  If he did forsake us when-
ever when we sinned, we would not be on this list, because we have all sinned.
When we are new in Christ, we are weaker.  As you grow in Christ, you will see
his blessings of strength and mercy more and more.  God bless you and keep you
safe from satan and his temptations.  Remember to trust in the Lord and when
you are weak call upon him and he will take care of you and show you the way.


Your friend in Christ, Bernice
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
X-Envelope-to: SPSSX-L@uga.cc.uga.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.spssx-l
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:04:41 MET
Reply-To:     Hessels@SOA.FSW.EUR.NL
From:         Hessels@SOA.FSW.EUR.NL
Comments: To: SPSSX-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

A colleague of mine found a beta value greater than 1 for a variable in a
multiple regression analysis.

Could this be caused by multicollinearity or are there other sources as well
that can cause this?

Any help would be appreciated!

 ******************************************************************************
                                     Marco G.P. Hessels
   __ ___   ___                      Rotterdam Institute for Sociological and
    |/ _ \_/ _ \                     Public Administration Research (RISBO)
   <|  0  |  0  |>                   Erasmus University
    | (   >   ) |  _   _  _  _       P.O. Box 1738
    |   \___/   | (_| |  (_ (_)      3000 DR Rotterdam

 Phone: (0)10-4082068     Fax: (0)10-4529734     E-mail: Hessels@SOA.FSW.EUR.NL
 ******************************************************************************
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.spssx-l
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 10:59:34 CDT
Reply-To:     "Anup K. Roy" <anuproy@uiuc.edu>
Comments:     Resent-From: Anup Kumar Roy <anuproy@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu>
Comments:     Originally-From: ZWOYER   at Uiucvmd
From:         Anup Kumar Roy <anuproy@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU>

I have a user that asked me the following question about Lisrel-7 used
through SPSS Rel. 4.1 on CMS. Does anyone know the correct answer?

Any & all help would be much appreciated. Thanks a lot in advance.

- anup k roy, u of illinois at urbana-champaign

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I spoke to you earlier today about needing more information about what LISREL
is doing when it calculates factor scores regressions.

I have used prelis to calculate polychoric correlations on a set of
variables. I then read the polychoric correlations into a LISREL program in
order to use the confirmatory factor analysis component of LISREL to develop
a measurement model for these variables. I would now like to use the
information from the measurement model to calculate factor scores to be read
into a structural model involving these variables, as well as three other
sets of variables that I have analyzed in the same manner. I realize that
this is not the optimal way to conduct a structural analysis, but I have a
low n for the number of variables I wish to examine. (I have 173 subjects,
each with some missing data so I used pairwise deletion in prelis; I have
20-40 observed variables in each of the original variables sets; and I want
to combine those variables into 16 factors to use in the structural model.)

MY QUESTION IS: When I ask for factor scores regressions on a LISREL run that
is using correlations, is the factor scores regression information given in
the output standardized or unstandardized? And relatedly, if the output given
is standardized, why are the coefficients so different from the corresponding
lambda values?
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.spssx-l
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:11:28 EDT
Reply-To:     Stephen Salbod <SALBOD1@PACEVM.BITNET>
From:         Stephen Salbod <SALBOD1@PACEVM.BITNET>
Subject:      ill-conditioned matrix

Hi SPSSers: A colleague presented me with the following problem-

    Problem:   PC analyses is being applied to the responses of 300
               students to a 107 item scale. A warning is given that the
               matrix is ill-conditioned!

    Question: Is there a solution to this problem?

    Thank you in advance for any help!

  K   K
    *  *
 K   E * K        PRODUCED AND DIRECTED BY STEPHEN SALBOD
   K   K            ON LOCATION AT PACE UNIVERSITY, NY
*

"A KLINGON DREAM"
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: spssx-l@UALTAVM.BITNET
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.spssx-l
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 11:27:09 EDT
Reply-To:     Michel Dignard <dignard@JSP.UMONTREAL.CA>
From:         Michel Dignard <dignard@JSP.UMONTREAL.CA>
Subject:      Re: Translating CYBER SPSS system files for AIX
Comments: To: den0@NS1.CC.LEHIGH.EDU
Comments: cc: cyber-l@uga.edu
              NELSON" at Jul 22, 92 7:19 pm

Reference: message de DEAN E. NELSON >
 | Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:19:43 GMT
 | From: "DEAN E. NELSON" <den0@NS1.CC.LEHIGH.EDU>
 | Subject:      Translating CYBER SPSS system files for AIX
 | To: Multiple recipients of list SPSSX-L <SPSSX-L@UALTAVM.BITNET>

 | Our new system is an RS-6000 running SPSS version 4 under AIX 3.1.  Without
 | finding another CYBER site (which we are also pursuing as a solution), does
 | anyone have the means to translate these system files to a usable form.

I really suggest that you find a cooperative NOS/VE site.
[I crosspost this answer to the CYBER-L discussion.]

The format of SPSS files is described in the "SPSS Coordinator's Notebook"
for CDC EP/IX, chapters 3-5 :
        - PFF Portable File Routines
        - Commmunication-type PFF Files
   ==>  - SPSS-X System File Description: UNIX Version
          [it is possible there may be some variations for NOS/VE Version]

We do not have a SPSS License for EP/IX anymore, and these chapters are not part
of our current UNIX License Notebook, but probably you could obtain a copy from
SPSS Inc.

--
Michel Dignard                         Dignard@ERE.UMontreal.CA
Services informatiques
Universite de Montreal
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.spssx-l