From: KAMCHAR@ibm.cl.msu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.politics.usa.constitution,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: U.S. Bill of Rights today (was alt.activism et al: Who's free'er)
Date: 11 Sep 92 01:15:05 GMT
Reply-To: alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.politics.usa.constitution,soc.culture.usa
Organization: Kamchatka Charlie

Jyrki Kuoppala writes:
>Thus spake exukjb@exu.ericsson.se (ken bell): 

>>Give me the absolute guarantees in the Bill of Rights  without exceptive
>>clauses anytime, because remember, the purpose of those ammendments were
>>to protect citizens' rights against encroachments from the state, and with
>>such absolute guarantees, any right can be abrogated in the name of some
>>ostensibly overriding good...
>
>	Really?
>
>		AMENDMENT I:
>	Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
>or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
>speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble,
>and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
>
>		REALITY I:
>	Peyote use among the Native Americans: Banned.

     The ban was overturned by the Supreme Court (and this was probably
overturned by the WoD, sadly enough)

(second amendment skipped)

>		AMENDMENT III:
>	No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house,
>without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be
>prescribed by law.
>
>		REALITY III:
>	Emminent domain laws permit the Government to seize your property
>and use it for any purpose they wish. They may not quarter soldiers in you
>home WITH you, but they MAY evict you THEN quarter them.

     Yes, and usually they pay "fair value" for the property.  Usually this
ends up as payments for decrepit housing to absentee landlords for some new
building or street configuration and hell for those who now need new places to
live, sadly enough.

(amendments 4-7 skipped)

>		AMENDMENT VIII:
>	Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
>nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
>
>		REALITY VIII:
>	In MI, simple possession of over a given quantity of a controlled
>substance REQUIRES a manditory sentence of life WITHOUT PAROLE.

     Again, overturned in the Michigan Supreme Court.  Thankfully not yet
overturned by the WoD, but don't get your hopes up yet.

>Forfeiture laws impose enormous "fines" on minor offenders (an individual
>in CA driving a $15K automobile and possessing a single marijuana seed
>faces criminal penalties of a $100 fine yet their automobile may be seized
>and sold.

     Similar penalties occurr elsewhere in the USA; CA is not alone in this.

>Other even more unjust examples are rampant. This Amendment, as
>well, was nulified by the WoD.
>

(amendments 9 and 10 omitted)

>	Personally, I'm interested in seeing some direct responses to the
>original thread - since if Bush wins my wife and I are giving serious
>thought to emmigrating. Rights are too important to give away the way
>Americans have been doing during the last decade.

     Where?!?!  I've been thinking of moving to another nation myself (with a
10-year wait, as I've got to get my credintials together--can't expect a
relatively unskilled (BS in Humanities, BS in Philosophy) student to set up
shop anywhere in the world, unfortunately.

And, to Ken Arrommdee, who writes:
>SOC.CULTURE.USA IS NOT A POLITICS GROUP.  PLEASE DO NOT POST POLITICS
>ARTICLES (T)HERE.  THANK YOU.

Sorry, but not everyone gets the alt.groups listed.  I'll wait for a couple
months before keeping politics out of s.c.usa (to give the alt.politics.usa.*
groups time to get established).

Thanx
Kamchatka Charlie          KAMCHAR@ibm.cl.msu.edu
Peace, love, and freedom to all.  Forget equality, that gums up the works.
Newsgroups: alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.politics.usa.constitution