From: ahmed@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ahmed El-Habbash)
Subject: Re: The Hadith about Muslims killing the Jews / Hamas vs. Sunnah
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:38:30 GMT

In <1992Dec16.013422.2042@cirrus.com> chrism@cirrus.com (Chris Metcalfe) writes:

>In article <1992Dec15.205601.16512@dsg.cs.tcd.ie> ahmed@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ahmed El-Habbash) writes:

>>But I cannot see how the prophecy which is used by Hamas to give
>>inspiration and encouragement to the opressed people, the palestinians,
>>in their struggle with the Zionists, who occupied their land and deprive
>>them the right to live, contradict with Islam.  
>>
>>There is an opressor, and an opressed, and the Hadeeth says that the
>>time will come when the opressed (curretly Muslims) will be in a different
>>situation.
>>
>>What sort of contradiction is there ?
>>
>>-- 
>>Ahmed I. El-Habbash, 

>Because HAMAS is telling its people that they are justified by Islam
>to do what they are doing.  

But HAMAS and its people know that the given Hadeeth is a prophecy, and
is not an instruction to be followed. The Hadeeth is used only to give 
hope for the people in their struggle against an opressor who
will not save any means to kill even their hope of surviving.

Perhaps the recent reports about the 400 innocent Palestinians, who were 
deported by the Israelis as a normal retaliation for a kidnapping of one 
Israeli soldier, could make sense to you.

>It is a terrible thing to mislead people 
>religiously, especially when you are asking them to take blood onto 
>their hands.  

>The origin of this thread discussed whether or not Islam had a special
>attitude toward the aggressive destruction of Jews.  

Infact Islam has no aggressive attitude towards the Jews. What is going
there is a struggle between an opressed (Palestinians/HAMAS) and an
opressor (Zionists/Israelis). It is not because the Zionists are Jews.

> Ilyess made a point
>that it does not, that one cannot kill someone who has been disarmed
>for example.  But the HAMAS has just executed a Jew with his hands tied.

But you say it is execution !!!  So surely he must have been executed after
being disarmed!! there is no point of keeping him armed at the time of
execution. It is a fact, in Israel, every Jewish person (man or woman) is
armed, and they are not armed to defend themselves from an external
attack, but to be in a position that they can opress the palestinians, 
without having to worry about their reaction.

>The issue is that they have used the Hadith to justify their actions...
>and the Hadith they have cited in their Charter is a particularly harsh 
>indictment of Jews without respect to their condition at any given
>time, either in ascendancy or in exile.

>According to Ilyess this was an "information only" Hadith, from which
>the performance of an action should not be derived.  (By its inclusion
>in the Sahih of Muslim it is defined as "sahih," "sound.")  According 
>to HAMAS it describes an act that is to be completed as a part of Islam 
>and as a part of participation in HAMAS.  They have stated this explicitly:

>>>**   d) The Islamic movement is one link in the long chain of fighters
>>>** against Zionism.  We are looking forward to implement Allah's and the
>>>** Prophet's promise to the effect that "the time will come when the
>>>** Muslims will fight the Jews and kill them.... Even if Jews should hide
>>>** behind trees and rocks, these will cry out: `Oh Muslims, there is a
>>>** Jew behind me, come and kill him..." (Article 7).

>"to implement," these are the key words.  If a man should listen to his
>teacher speak these words, what is his choice?

>I am willing to listen to Ilyess' explanation.  In my opinion, HAMAS operates
>outside the Sharia.

But if Hamas wants to use Islam to instruct its people to fight their
opressors, There are many verses in the Quran to give such instructions,
not only to the people of Hamas, but to every Muslim, and not against
the Jews, but against any opressor.

" And why don't you fight for the sake of Allah, and for the opressed
men, women and children who, being abased, say: our Lord free us from 
this place whose people are unjust, ....." (Quran translation).

Fighting against the opressors is not something outside Sharia, and
looking for achieving a prophecy while following legitimate steps in
doing that is not outside Sharia.  The implication of implementing that
Hadeeth is fighting until reaching to victory. Unfortunately, that
victory is not going to come so easy without blood, but it is comming.
SO this is exactly as telling them " Don't despair, don't grieve, and
you will have the upper hand, if you are believers".

Sorry, I wasn't their at the beginning of the discussion of this thread,
so perhaps some points are not clear to me.  I am also interested of
what Ilyess would say if he has a different opinion.


>-- Chris Metcalfe

Ahmed I. El-Habbash, 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast