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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 12:34:15 -0400
From:         Eric James Ewanco <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Security of salvation?

Excerpts from christia: 9-Oct-92 Re: Security of salvation? Tom
Brewer@LSUVM.BITNET (2247)

> ERIC:
> You write:

> > You're contradicting yourself.  There are still people who believe the
> > Gospel, have faith, and so forth, but who later may commit a sin that
> > [supposedly] cannot be committed by a regenerate person.  Do you think
> > that all such people acted as Christians, and thought they were
> > Christians, when in fact they did not really believe and have faith?

> The above seems to be "contradicting." How can "people who believe the
> Gospel, have faith, and so forth," become UNregenerate?

By no longer believing.

> Only those who have been regenerated by God (born again) can believe the
> Gospel, have faith, and so forth. Are you saying that eternal life is
> not eternal?

Eternal life only does you good if you possess it.  Simply because you
possess eternal life at any given time doesn't mean you can't reject it
at a later time and thus lose it.  Eternal life is a hope that we have,
not a completed reality.  The Holy Spirit is a deposit on that hope, but
we will not fully possess eternal life until we die and are judged.

> That one can have eternal life for a temporal amount of time?

Correct.  I have a lifetime membership in a service fraternity.  I can
reject that membership and give it up.  It's still a lifetime
membership; the fact that I didn't possess it for a lifetime doesn't
negate that fact.  Only those who believe, and remain in Christ, will
have eternal life.  If one ceases to believe, one ceases to possess
eternal life.

> Who keeps the believer in the faith: the believer by his works or Jesus
> Christ by His grace?

The believer is kept in faith by responding to Christ's grace.  If you
call this by works, so be it.

> If no one can remove the believer from the hand of Christ, whose hand is
> in the Father's hand, then the believer is secure. Unless of course the
> believer is stronger than God and can pry the Father's hand open and
> remove himself, even though Christ said no one can do this.

No, that's not what Christ said.  Christ said that no one could snatch
them from his hand.  Your picture of someone attempting to pry
themselves out of God's hands, and the Father cruelly preventing them
from exercising their free will and binding them eternally to do what
they do not wish to do (that is, live with God), keeping them captive
against their will, is abhorrent and incredible offensive to me.

God loves us so much that he allows us to make our own choices.  Part of
that choice is the choice to reject Him at any time.  We do not lose our
choices once we become regenerate.  How can you even suggest that God,
against their will, will not allow someone to leave Him?

> False religion wants a man to think his salvation depends upon his efforts.
> False religion wants a man to think his security depends upon his efforts.
> False religion wants a man to think his justification depends upon his
 efforts.
> False religion wants a man to think his sanctification depends upon his
 efforts

This is a tradition of men that has no support whatsoever in Scripture.

"Be diligent in these matters; give yourself wholly to them, so that
everyone may see your progress.  Watch your life and doctrine closely.
Persevere in them, because if you do, you wiill save both yourself and
your hearers."  1 Tim 4:15f.
(Perseverence is required for salvation.)

"But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death
to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from
accusation -- if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not
moved from the hope held out in the gospel." (Col 1:23)
(We are free from accusation only if we continue in faith firmly.)

Hebrews 6:9: "Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are
confident of better things in your case -- things that accompnay
salvation.  God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love
you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help
them.  We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end,
in order to make your hope sure.  We do not want you to become lazy, but
to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been
promised."
(Through faith and patience do we inherit eternal life -- diligence is
required to ensure our salvation, our hope.)

Hebrews 3:12: "See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful,
unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.  But encourage
one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that  none of you
may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.  We have come to share in Christ
if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first."
(Another condition -- based on WORKS -- of our salvation.)

Hebrews 10:38 "But my righteous one will live by faith.  And if he
shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him.  But we are not of those
who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are
saved."
(It is possible to shrink back, after faith, and be destroyed.)

James 1:12.  "Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because
when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God
has promised to those who love him."
(Our faith is tested, and only those who persevere will receive the
crown of life.)

Philippians 3:10: "I want to know Christ and the power of his
resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming
like him in his death, and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection
from the dead.  Not that I have already obtained all this, or have
already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which
Christ Jesus took hold of me.  Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to
have taken hold of it.  But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind
and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win
the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus."
(Salvation is ATTAINED by OUR RESPONSE to God's grace.  Our prize is WON
by perseverence.)

1 Cor 9:24: "Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but
only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.
Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training.  They do
it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that
will last forever.  Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly;
I do not fight like a man beating the air.  No, I beat my body and make
it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not
be disqualified for the prize."
(It is possible, after believing, to be disqualified from our prize of
eternal life.)

> Jesus Christ has restored the believer to communion with the Father.
> Jesus Christ has reconciled the believer to a right relationship and status of
> favor with God.
> Jesus Christ has redeemed the believer from the curse and bondage of the law
> and human efforts to work one's way to Heaven.

I agree with all except the last phrase, which is contrary to Scripture,
as I have demonstrated.

Eric
--
"Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ." -- Saint Jerome, 5th century
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