Newsgroups: misc.kids

>/ hpsemc:misc.kids / allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren) /  2:25 pm  Nov 10, 1992 /
>
>
>
>I can't fully agree that spanking is directly correlated with teaching
>obediance.  Just my opinion.
>

The relation is that you spank as punishment to the child not doing as told
or as you expected. So you do teach him/her to obey you even when his/her
instincts or wishes are against it. 

>Agreed that the do need tolerance and understanding.  I do think that
>children need discipline and structure and limit-setting, but I think
>we disagree (please correct me if I'm wrong) on what I stated above
>that spanking is NOT directly correlated (my thought) with teaching
>obediance.

Yes we disagree on spanking but agree on needing limits. Although I believe
the limits should not be the ones that are made up for the benefit of parents
(such as "play quietly in your room" cause I prefer a quiet evening watching
the news after a hectic day at work) , but real ones that they need to learn
in order to survive and live better.

>
>Question:  Do you have more than one child?
>
>The reason I ask is only because when we only had Cory, he was the center
>of our child-raising attention.  We could devote all of our child-raising
>efforts into this one magnificient little boy.  On the day before Cory's
>2nd birthday, his magnificient little brother Nicholas was born.  Now came
>the real fun:  two boys and two egos, two little separate and unique
>individuals.
>		

It is true that I only have one child but I have seen it work in a family of
four children! It is a family where both parents are very expressive and 
talkative and I don't know where they get the energy! But they are always
talking with their children and don't seem to feel tired enough to give
up and say things like " cause _I_ told you so "!

Also my daughter has been spending the days with my neice ( one year older)
since she was born (sharing grandma and nanny!).

>	.....

>I've tried reasoning and talking with Cory many a time, but when he gets
>his stubborn little mind set on something, NOTHING breaks through.  Yes,
>we do have great days with our boys and these are in the majority, but
>when Cory OR Nicky decide they are not being treated the same or are not
>getting enough attention, well, I now know the meaning of the word
>"All hell breaks loose."
>
>We love our boys dearly, but every once in a great while, one (more Cory
>than Nicky it seems like . . . unfortunately) slap on a clothed butt does
>seem to work.  Still, we try every other non-physical way to help instruct
>and teach, especially me 'cause I'm the male and look more physically
>imposing.
>


I guess it all depends on what "it works" means. I was never spanked as a
child but punished by a very nasty "look" and retrieval of love. It "worked"
as I would dread doing whatever it was that had caused that reaction. But
I was never secure in their love and always felt that I was not really loved
for who I was, but tolerated as long as I "behaved" as they liked!!  I also
did not trust my own instincts. I still have difficulty doing certain things 
that other might not value but that are very important for me. Like painting.

Any reaction to an undesired behavior by a child, that is out of the ordinary
will "work". Be it a dirty look or a spanking. Ofcourse if you spank a lot
it will stop working as well as before. If you yell a lot it won't be as
effective , etc. But what are we trying to accomplish here? 

I always try to understand my child. I ask her why she is angry, is she
jealous, is she scared, is she hurt etc. Trying to focus on the underlying
reason for the behavior rather than the behavior itslef. Mostly just to
understand her rather than to "shush her up". Then _if_ I get an
answer I try to see if I can understand it and figure out a way to deal with
it better than she has .  Sometimes I can  only sympathize with her
and that calms her. Other times, I get no answer ,  or won't undertand, or 
she will not change her behavior, etc. Then I just accept it!! It isn't that
hard. ( God knows I have to accept many things that I don't really understand
from my husband, friends, ... other so called "adults"). Of course if it is 
a dangerous situation I remove her from that situation (yes yelling and kicking
sometimes). There are rules to follow as well. For example, to eat breakfast
you have to have washed your face and hands. If you don't it means that you
don't really want breakfast. If she is unhappy with this I appologize to her
but explain why dirt is bad. Even in this case it works best when she sees us
following the rules. To get her to brush I just started brushing when she was
around.

I don't believe that if a two year old doesn't understand that she is really
tired and needs to sleep and fights it, she will grow up to be a "monster" who
will never sleep!! I see how she matures with time and is able to undertand
better (actually I'm not even sure about the "better" part! Just that she
learns to behave more like us :~) I have learned many things from her. ).

I _don't_ believe I have the right to "punish" her or crush her in _**any**_
way. 

I don't want to sound like I think I know it all. I don't!  I don't have all
the answers and I also know what "when hell breaks loose" means.

What I _do_ know is that the same way some parents decide against physical
punishment and they are able to live with it and bring up relatively great
kids, I have decided to have no "punishment" and I am able to live with it
and have brought up a relatively great kid!(Well actually, a very great kid :~)
But then _all_ kids are great, it's the "adults" that scare me!!
Newsgroups: misc.kids