Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mdphd-l
Date:         Sat, 9 Jan 1993 17:44:38 CST
From:         John Grant Moen <jgm1@MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Length of program, $$, etc.

This message is a response to Josh Goldstein's MDPHD-L post of 5-jan-93...

>        Well, I can tell you about the program here at the University of
>Connecticut. It's pretty INFLEXIBLE about the amount of time you spend in
>it; it WILL take seven years, no more, maybe a few months less. However,
>you're fully funded, tuition and fees for all 7 years plus a stipend for
>the last 5 of them, and there is NO payback. There is no contract. Once
>you graduate, you're on your own.
>
>        This is of course non-MSTP; it's the state of Connecticut. It's
>the only program like this I've seen.

Josh -- there *are* similar programs, not identical certainly, but definitely
similar.  For instance, most non-bio-sci MD/PhDs (psychologists, historians,
philosophers, ethicists, policy analysts, economists, sociologists, anthro-
pologists, and the like) are/were non-MSTP. [As an aside, some *are* in
MSTP programs, interestingly enough -- some schools have a more liberal
interpretation of what a Program to Train Medical Scientists should do!]

Let me mention a few of these programs, ones that I happen to know a little
bit about...

The University of Chicago Program in Medicine, Arts, and the Social Sciences.
I know the most about this one since it's the one I chose to go with.  Only
U.S. medical students who've completed at least 2 years of med school are
eligible (anyone who's further along is welcome too), and PhD's are offered
in any of the fields I mentioned in the above paragraph (plus the JD).
The Program (P-MASS for short) provides 3 years of full tuition plus a
generous stipend for graduate work done at the U. of Chicago.  The advantages
are that you don't have to decide whether or not you want to get a PhD until
after 2 yrs of med school, and there's no contract or obligation other than
an agreement to finish your last 2 years of med school (usually where you did
the first 2 years) after you finish your graduate work.  The big disadvantage
is, of course, that you have to find other ways to pay for 4 yrs of med
school.

The University of Illinois Medical Scholars Program (Champaign) supports
a large number of MD/PhD's, many of whom also are doing graduate work
outside the biological sciences.  I'm not sure of the details regarding
funding of the medical school years or contracts & obligations, but maybe
one of the many UofI folks on this forum could fill us in.

The Robert Wood Johnson Clinical Scholars Program.  This one is for people
who've completed their medical training (MD + residency) and is not tied
to one particular school.  Scholars in this program study in graduate fields
outside the biological sciences (as traditionally conceived) and can attend
Yale, Penn, or one of 4 other schools that escape my memory at the moment.
Advantages: you don't have to decide whether you want to do a PhD until after
med school and residency, you have your pick of 6 top-notch institutions,
and I don't believe there are any contracts or obligations.  The disadvan-
tages are the delayed gratification of wating so long to start your graduate
work, and again, the need to find another way to pay for med school.

The University of California at San Diego has a similar program to RWJ-CSP.

By the way, anybody considering a non-bio-sci PhD should not expect to
get a doctorate in 3 yrs the way many MSTP setups allow/expect you to do!!
Expect to spend *at least* 4 years and very possibly 5 !!  This can be a
major consideration as regards financing, continuity of medical training,
and the total number of years spent-in-school/not-making-money !


I hope this info has been somewhat interesting and/or helpful!

--john   (j-moen@uchicago.edu)
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