From: twm27@isuvax.iastate.edu
Subject: Re: Confusion about "Islam"
Originator: zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan -Moderator)
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:41:04 GMT
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NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1ivqv6INNnc8@shelley.u.washington.edu>, islambo@faraday.ee.washington.edu ( Tamal Islam 9211055) writes:
>Salaamu `Alaekum,
>
>In article <9301111912.aa24779@longvalley.dsg.cs.tcd.ie> ahmed@dsg.cs.tcd.ie writes:
>>In soc.religion.islam you write:
>>
>>>Salaamu `Alaekum,
>>
>>>Unfortunately, the immigrants (I'm one) who didn't grow up in this country
>>>would have us believe in dogma, and want us riding camels instead of cars.
>>>They carry with them cultural garbage (i.e. treatment of women) which they
>>>declare as Islamic.  This is WRONG.
>>
>>Did any one tell you that riding a camel is dogma in Islam??
>
>This is just an expression which I am using to say that the `ulema in the Third
>World would have us retreat into the past and not deal with current situations
>in the light of new knowledge, while staying within the framework of Islam.

	Those Ulamas that you badmouthed are the exact same ulamas that
gave you your understanding of Islam. Without their work to preserve Islam
in it pure state you would know be so sharply arrogant as to devalue
their existence.


>
>As for immigrants, I've found them to be among the most stubborn and closed-
>minded people.  Yes, this is a generalization.
>
>>Did Islam tell us to describe the culture of others as garbage??
>
>No.  To understand this statement, let me give you a little background...
>I became a practicing Muslim only about five years ago.  Only recently have I
>been delving into the original (translated) sources in order to understand
>where different Islamic concepts have come from.  I have been realizing, as I
>learn more and more, how much "cultural garbage" has come into Islam.  I'm
>originally from Bangladesh.  Let me give you some examples:
>
>1) If you are in the middle of prayer, and your house catches on fire, you have
>to finish your prayer, even if you die in it.  (Goes against the principle of
>preservation of life.)
>
>2) It is okay to beat women.  (Given that the husband is just, and other less
>serious punishments are carried out first.  This ayat refers to disobeying
>wives.)
>
>>From a khutba in Seattle:
>
>3) If you wear Western clothes, you are a kafir.  (Yeah, if you dress like
>Madonna...)
>
>
>>What they say about the treatment of women, do they say that women are
>>alien entities?  In fact I dont know who says, and what they say.
>>Also I don't know why does that bother you. If you have the proper
>>knowledge of Islam, then you should not worry about what the others say
>>and also you should feel happy that you have found people that need
>>guidance, ...
>
>The reason it bothers me is that I see the condition of the Muslim world today,
>and I see the problem as being the lack of flexibility of the `ulema in dealing
>with today's societies.  They tend to see anything Western as evil, or new
>interpretations of the Sharia to deal with the modern world as evil.  After
>all, translations of the Qur'an were forbidden until the 1800s(?).  Printing of
>the Qur'an was not allowed 'til then also, I think.  The Gate of Ijtihad had
>been closed by the Sunnis.  `Ulema had said in the past that Muslims should
>support a strong "Muslim" leader, even though he may have faults like wining
>and womanizing.  (I don't have the specific references.)
>
>To add to the harm, the media has a field day talking about all the atrocities
>and mistreatment in "Muslim" nations, and attribute it to Islam, or don't 
>explain that these things are against Islam.  We have "Muslims" committing acts
>of terrorism in the name of Islam, with the support of some `ulema.
>
>I been to three areas in the US with Muslim communities: MIT, the Tri-Cities in
>Washington state, and in Seattle.  Each community is divided, and violence has
>sometimes broken out between the two (or more) sides (in Seattle).  I find this
>behavior by Muslims to be shameful, and I sometimes wonder how we ever get
>converts.
>
>I had asked a convert why she did.  She gave the usual reasons, then said that
>she was converted by other converts, and that if she had first met Muslims
>who were "born" into Islam, she probably wouldn't have converted.  (I am not a
>convert.)  I find it sad that this is not an isolated incident.  I have met
>others with the same views.
>
>These are things that bother me.
>
>> ... and that you are in a position to offer that guidance.
>
>Unfortunately, my detailed religious knowledge is lacking.  But I'm trying to
>change that, Insha'Allah.
>
>>>Islam's strengths are its adaptability and its encouragement to use our brains.
>>>Yet, these gifts from Allah (swt) are not used as such.  Insha'Allah, the
>>>reasonable, knowledgeable, and pragmatic Muslims will overcome the prejudices
>>>and ignorance of our brethren who still live in the 7th century.
>>
>>Who are those pragmatic muslims and who are those ignorant brethern.
>
>See the previous paragraph.
>
>>Since this is your first message on the net, as you have mentioned, I
>>would encourage you to write more specific messages, and I am sure your
>>subsequent messages will be more informative and more enlightening.
>
>Does this reply count? :-)
>
>>>Tamal Islam
>>
>>Ahmed
>>Ahmed I. El-Habbash,
>>Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.
>
>
>I have made general statements.  There are exceptions.  I hope I have cleared
>up any confusion, and that you understand why I have the attitude that I have.
>Glad to have this discussion.  I have found too many Muslims wanting to argue,
>-- 
>
>Tamal Islam
>University of Washington, Seattle
>EECS
>