From: nikolay@husc10.harvard.edu (Philip Nikolayev)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Reply to S. Borodin (was: Antisemitism and Verbitsky)
Date: 7 Nov 92 06:02:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc10.NIKOLAY.92Nov6220239
Organization: The Kremlin Wall of Harvard
In-reply-to: avg@rodan.UU.NET's message of 6 Nov 92 12:27:34 GMT

avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov) writes:

> In article <kosinov.721066584@ceg.uiuc.edu> 
kosinov@ceg.uiuc.edu (Greg Kosinovsky) writes:

[deletia]

GK
>>Bolshevics). But that is nearly irrelevant, Since, unlike other socialist
>>parties, Bolshevic philosophy and policy was completely and exclusively
>>defined by Vladimir Ulyanov Lenin.

VA
> Ne pizdi. Ne lyubish' pravdu, da?

> Trudovye lagerya i krasnyi terror pridumal i aktivno protalkival
> nekto Leon Trotskiy. Navero ne evrei on byl.

Chush. 'Krasnyi terror' i 'kontsentratsionnyi lager' (kak terminy,
tak i 'praktiku') vvel i aktivno nasazhdal Lenin vo vremia voennogo
kommunizma. Ia gotov predostavit' dokumental'nye ssylki dlia neuchey.
A Russkii terror byl priduman zadolgo do etogo. Uzh ne evrei li byl 
Nikolai i ego predshestvenniki?

[deletia]

GK
>>  Now, let's examine the "Un- Russian" nature of Lenin's Bolshevism:

VA
> Ah. Naverno on byl patriot. I nekto po familii Pervus byl
> sovershenno ne priochyom. A takzhe tam byl kakie-to Engel's s
> Marksom s ihnei cherezvychaino gumannoi teoriei klassovoi bor'by.
> Naverno russkie.

Marks i Engels ne byli bol'shevikami. A yesli uzh govorit'
o marksizme, to pervum serioznym marksistom v Rossii byl Plekhanov.
Kak ni stranno, ne evrei. Chto zhe kasayetsia revoliutsionnogo
dvizheniia kak takovogo, to rekomenduyu vspomnit' pro bolee
pamiatnykh liudei - Bakunina i proch. Tozhe, kak ni stranno,
otniud' ne yevrei.

GK
>>Lenin was raised in a Russian patriotic-coservative family of Ilya
>>Ulyanov, a States-Councelor in His Magestie's Government. (The
>>career of Alexander Ulyanov is not an indication of family's
>>radicalism. Most members of Narodnaya Volya came from such
>>"enlightened-coservative" families).

VA
> Aga. V pripadke konservatizma NV bombila tsarya.

Bravo, zheleznaia logika! Znachit na osnovanii togo, cho vy zdes',
Vadim, pishite, my mozhem delat' vyvody o vashikh roditeliakh?
Net, ia vsio zhe ostavliu za nimi prezumptsiyu nevinovnosti.

[deletia]

GK
>>Some notes in conclusion: Russians have no one but themselves to
>>blame...

VA
> Evrei tozhe. Chto ya vsyo vremya i govoril.

GK
>> They were the only ones who could have stopped it, but didn't.

VA
> Ne prosh'e bylo by ne nachinat'?

Aga, tak nachali vsio taki evrei? Vy eto imeete v vidu, Vadim?

GK
>>   One of the main executors of LENIN's Red Terror was, indeed, the
>>   'Chukcha' Trotsky, but the two others -- Krilenko and Dzerzhinsky
>>   -- were Slavs.

VA
> I oba ne imeli nikakogo politicheskogo vesa. Dekrety-to ne oni
> vypuskali.  Kstati, krasnyi terror pridumal i protalkival vsyoi-taki
> LT. Ne nado vrat'.

Mda, VChK-GPU, stao byt', bylo sovershenno nevesomym? Aggkizaniatno.
Zachem zhe Feliks stagalsia?

GK
>> INDEED, the only person in the Bolshevic Government who tried
>> (unsuccessfully) to stop the Red Terror was another chukcha --
>> Isaak Steinberg.

VA
> Aga. Snachala on tuda popal a potom pytalsya. V teh mestah chistyh
> ne bylo.

No esli kto-to staralsia ostanovit' terror, to eto - horosho.

GK
>> Now, a disclaimer:
>> this post was solely intended for decent people on this network,
> and is not
>>   in any way intended to dissuade Antonov and his ilk from joining Pamyat.

VA
> Esli pod "dostoi'nymi" ponimat' lyudei kotorye prikidyvayutsya
> "politicheskimi bezhentsami" uehavshi za belymi bulkami, to my imeem
> sovershenno raznye ponyatia o tom chto takoe "dostoi'nyi".
> Dostoinyh lyudei vysylali. A vy -- tak, govno.

Aleksand Sergeevish Pushkin na protiazhenii mnogikh let ochen 
khotel umotat' za granitsu, deazhe "anevrizmu v noge" pridumal sebe, 
s lipovymi meditsinskimi zakliucheniyami. Emu prinadlezhit
vyskazyvanie o tom, chto "iest' strany blagoslovennee" (obratite
vnimanie na sravnitel'nuyu stepen' prilagatel'nogo). 
Pravitel'stvo, odnako, ego ne otpuskalo. Nu tak vot, kol' skoro
vy stavite vopros takim obrazom, ia vas sproshu: kto iz vas
dvoikh govno: Pushkin ili vy?

GK
>>   First of all, nothing can accomplish such a Herculean task, and
>>   secondly, Pamyat is were they belong.

VA
> Net, pochemu zhe. Dostatochno perestat' vrat'. Vy ne zasluzhili
> dazhe togo chtoby vas kto-nibud' presledoval.

Skazhite priamo, Vadim, kak vam Pamyat? Nravitsia?

> --vadim

Philip Nikolayev
nikolay@husc.harvard.edu
Xref: sparky soc.culture.soviet:9609 soc.culture.cis:57