From: steveh@thor.isc-br.com (Steve Hendricks)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: Simplistic Analysis usually yields false conclusions (was Liber...)
Summary: Personal Attacks Contain no analysis at all
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:15:00 GMT
Organization: ISC-Bunker Ramo, An Olivetti Company

In article <1992Aug20.004449.3642@desire.wright.edu> demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.224253.5942@isc-br.isc-br.com>, steveh@thor.isc-br.com (Steve Hendricks) writes:
>> In article <Bt6yIw.M47@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> jwales@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (jimmy donal wales) writes:
>>>
>>>The notion that the government ought to exist only to protect
>>>individual rights does not preclude that the government will
>>>be a strong organization.  I wish to limit the _scope_ of the
>>>government... not to arbitrarily limit the _size_ of the government.
>> 
>> Worthwhile distinction.  I do have the impression, however, that much of 
>> the appeal of libertarian philosophy lies in its promise to eliminate
>> the obligation of individuals to support (monetarily) the rights of
>> other citizens to whom they feel no connection.  Not meant as a
>> personal accusation, only a comment on the appeal of the philosophy
>> to many of its adherents.
>> 
>>>There are lots of flakey libertarians out there.
>>>But try arguing with socialists as a group, or Republicans, or
>>>whoever.  For any political position, there are any number of
>>>different adherents.
>>>
>>>--Jimbo Wales
>> 
>> Another valid point, Mr. Wales.  Having read libertarian theory off and
>> on for the last 25 years, or so, and having plowed through hundreds of
>> postings here, let me suggest that much of the "flakey-ness" in evidence
>> is adolescent rebellion finding a simplistic political philosophy that
>> appears to justify "doing what I want" and "keeping what I get."  For 
>
>	Names of people who fit this stereotype?  Quotes?  Or are we to believe
>such allegations simply because you say we should?

The purpose of the post was not to identify by name posters who fit the 
characterization.  I was agreeing with Mr. Wales (note his comment above)
and suggesting one source of the "flakey-ness" he cited.  Posts to the net
are hardly an appropriate basis for determining underlying motivation, (a 
point you should keep in mind, Mr. Stupendous Man.)  There is, however, a 
tone to a number of posts on both sci.econ and alt.individualism that suggest 
adherence to libertarianism reflects an immature and emotional reaction against 
authority of any sort.  I'll leave it as an exercise for you to consider
to whom this might apply, Mr. Stupendous Man.

To answer your question, no, I don't believe in argument from authority.
That is a classic rhetorical fallacy.  But I find it interesting that
you would attribute such a sentiment to me.  Do you often find yourself
assuming that those with whom you disagree are trying to impose their
opinions on you?  

>
>> those for whom identity formation is an immediate and pressing concern,
>> libertarianism seems to promise affirmation of one's adulthood.  For
>> those escaping the authoritarian bonds of one's parents it focuses on
>> the evils of institutional authoritarianism.  And for those with a 
>> limited historical perspective (the last dozen years, at most), the
>> simplistic appeal of a laissez-faire economic policy can be most
>> seductive. 
>
>	You seem to be confusing libertarianism with drinking beer and staying
>out all night.

No.  Adolescent rebellion can be manifested in a number of ways. I was
only suggesting that rebellion against authority finds a congenial 
intellectual justification in libertarianism. 

>
>> In short, most libertarians outgrow it. :-)
>
>	Well if we are to give out prizes for simplistic analysis and vague
>generalizations unsupported by facts or reality, you win the big prize.
>
>	However, whether you are talking big-l or little-l libertarianism,
>there is much more than economic concerns.  Reading the Libertarian Platform
>might help.  Perhaps you could then bless us with some specifics.
>
>	It's easy to maintain one's stereotypes.  It's so much easier than
>thinking, eh?
>
>Brett                                                      
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
>Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
>Disclaimer:								   NOT!

Strikes me that your reaction is far out of proportion to the original
post.  I never maintained that the _only_ attraction to a 
libertarian viewpoint was rooted in adolescent identity seeking, only that
it is a common pattern.  Your reaction suggests you took the comments
personally.  I wonder why that might be.



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