From: ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern)
Subject: Re: RFD: RENAME several groups to rec.outdoors.*
Organization: NCAR/UCAR
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:14:03 GMT

In article <1jvvolINNeq1@rodan.UU.NET>, Tim Rigg <rigg@osnome.che.wisc.edu> writes:
>                         REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION
> 
> There is some discussion in rec.backcountry about creating a camping
> subgroup.  If such a group is created, it should be placed in the
> rec.outdoors. hierarchy which currently contains just
> rec.outdoors.fishing.
	[deletions.  The following is a paraphrase:]
> In addition, obvious outdoors.* groups should be moved to that
> hierarchy: rec.boats, rec.boats.paddle, rec.climbing, rec.scuba, 
> rec.skiing, rec.skydiving, rec.windsurfing, rec.hunting.

I strongly, strongly, strongly disagree.  I voted against rec.outdoors.
fishing not because I didn't want a fishing group, but because I was
against creating a new "outdoors" hierarchy by fiat.  All of the above 
activities take place in the outdoors, true.  So what?  Why should we
add another complicating level to their group names?  The above activities 
have nothing in common save *generally* where they take place, and even 
that's debatable;  after all, climbing and scuba diving take place in 
very different parts of the outdoors.  

What do you propose to do with other groups which involve outdoors
activities?  Rec.bicycles.*?  Rec.sport.football.*? (After all, football
takes place outdoors!)  Rec.sport.triathlon?  Rec.autos?  (People
drive outdoors!)  Rec.birds?  Rec.equestrian?  Rec.models.rockets?
Rec.running?  We don't need this artificial subgroup for things that
actually have very little in common.

> First, should the above groups be transfered to the rec.outdoors
> hierarchy?  As moderator of rec.hunting, I strongly support the
> renaming of rec.hunting.  Readers of the other groups should post to
> news.groups with comments about their groups.  

No, no, no, no.  I believe that rec.outdoors.fishing should be brought
back into the fold as a plain old rec.fishing group.  (Unless the outdoors
anglers want to distinguish themselves from those who prefer to fish
in aquariums.)  Get rid of this bogus rec.outdoors.* hierarchy!

(I realize that many may disagree.  I would argue, though, that the
denizens of each of these existing groups should make the call 
individually -- that there should be no grand renaming vote.)

> Second, should rec.backcountry be renamed and modified to include
> subgroups?  It seems that splitting rec.backcountry might be a good
> idea.  But, where to split the group is quite another debate.
> Possibilities include:
> 
> rec.outdoors.camping
> rec.outdoors.backpacking
> rec.outdoors.hiking

But then you go on to say 
> 3) What should rec.outdoors.misc's charter be?  Here is a suggestion:
>    CHARTER: rec.outdoors.misc is for the discussion of general
>    backcountry topics.  These include backpacking, camping, hiking, the
>    state of wilderness areas, wildlife observation and the like.

If rec.outdoors.misc covers backpacking, camping, and hiking, than
why make subgroups?

I am opposed to splitting rec.backcountry.  The traffic is low enough
that anyone with a decent newsreader can cope.  Camping, backpacking,
and hiking all overlap to such a degree that splitting these topics
would be counterproductive.  The only split I could see being marginally
worthwhile would be rec.backcountry.equipment (for discussion of tents,
stoves, packs, boots, etc.) and I would probably vote against that
anyway.

SUMMARY:
I am opposed to renaming rec.backcountry.  I am opposed to creating
(or expanding) the rec.outdoors.hierarchy. I am opposed to splitting
rec.backcountry in any way except maybe to split off an equipment group.  
I realize that nobody gives a rat's ass what I want or don't want,
but I hope that those of you who agree with me will take the opportunity
to post your thoughts to news.groups.  

Ilana
who reads and posts to rec.backcountry, rec.climbing, rec.skiing, and
rec.boats.paddle, and opposes adding .outdoors. to their names.

-- 
/\    "I'm only a human girl person.  I ain't always perfect."--Rambling Rose
  \_][ <--NCAR Ilana Stern dod#009 r.b. cliff swallow ilana@ncar.ucar.edu    
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