HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bruceg@Cadence.COM (Bruce Gustifson)
Subject: Re: Dolomite (was Re: Western limestone Trip Report)
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:42:12 GMT

In article <george.717085215@windslc> george@windslc.nrel.gov writes:
>j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison) writes:
>
>>     Sinks Canyon rock is called Dolomite.  Now I thought this was the same
>>     as limestone, maybe Jim Bowers can clarify.  
>
>Dolomite is CaMg(CO3)2, with, as I recall, alternating layers of CaCo3 and
>MgCO3. It's also half way between true limestone and what's in your chalk bag.
>


  It's halfway between limestone and x-factor? And what about Bill? Halfway
between limestone and air?!

 One of those mornings...
************************************************************************
"Would you believe it if you     |             MY KARMA
saw it with your own eyes?"      |           JUST RAN OVER
   Asked the woman               |            YOUR DOGMA
"That depends"                   |               -Dolly Llama-
    Replied I                    |	
***********************************************************************
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Lubricating Cams
Date: 7 Oct 1992 23:49:39 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver-248

In article <8282@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> gustave@ada.seas.ucla.edu (Gustave R. Stroes) writes:
>I was wondering if anyone out there has any advice on what
>to use to lubricate the various moving parts on climbing
>equipment (carabiners, cams etc.).  I have read that cleaning
>should be done with kerosene and then a silicon spray should
>be used for lubrication.  I have tried the silicon but have 
>found that it actually tends to bind up the cams on my Camalots.
>Then I tried some Tri-Flow (bicycle chain lube) and this freed
>them right up but I'm woried about dirt sticking to it.
>Any suggestions?
>
>Gustave 

I use Dri-Slide.  It is a molybdenum di-sulfide based product that 
has a volatile transfer agent and dries up so dirt won't stick.

I have seen it in Gun Shops and Motocycle parts stores.

Works for me,

Bruce

From: j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:33:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Bolt Litter (was Re: A social commentary, & equipping nature)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing

In rec.climbing, rwaters@spdg.com (Rolland Waters) writes:

> I don't understand the
> point of view that alpine climbing = true climbing.  An alpinist
> is even more dependent than a sport climber on his or her gear.
> Mountainering also changes the environment, human and otherwise,
> as evidenced by the litter and culture thrashing in Nepal.

Well for some this point of view is climbing = macho = danger = alpine.
For others it's more like climbing = big (or remote) = alpine.

> 
> I've often thought it would be cool just to have holes rather than
> bolts, and have everybody have a rack of bolts they insert themselves
> (on lead) that their second would clean.  Such a bolt design is
> feasible; I have one sketched out on paper.  Obviously, it might not
> work on softer rock, but on granite routes it would go a long way to
> solving	the bolt litter problem.

I like this idea, just think how it would change route finding on all those
blank wall sport routes.  Oh yeah, you can always follow the chalk.  What
about limestone?  I'm afraid it might be to soft for this and some high
percentage of those sport bolts are in limestone.

> Do people feel this is a feasible approach? The device I have in mind
> should actually be stronger than an equivalent bolt, and only
> marginally heavier (if at all) than a quickdraw set.  Would you use 
> them?  

Yes and yes.  Acceptance could be tough.

Mort
From: bowen@acsu.buffalo.edu (Devon E Bowen)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: warm weather climbing
Date: 9 Oct 92 14:49:50 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

Thanks to everyone that replied to my note about climbing in
the South-West. Unfortunately, there were so many replies that
I can't afford the time to send thanks by e-mail. I've never
gotten such a large response from a newsgroup before!

If anyone is interested, the place recommended the most (over-
whelmingly) for good winter climbing was Hueco Tanks. There
were a few recommendations for places like Southern Arizon, too.
But a number of people assured me that Joshua Tree was worth
taking the chance.

Thanks again.

Devon
From: hugh@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Hugh Grierson)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: A social commentary about "climbers" vs. "People who climb (or play like it)"
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:55:07 GMT
Organization: Fujitsu New Zealand


In article <1992Oct11.210258.23875@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>In article <1992Oct9.160346.14969@csc.ti.com> czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com
>(Cary Czichon) writes:
>>Reads more like the Who's Who list of "Park Bums with Attitude Problems".
...
>blah altercation etc etc attitude problems mumble "best climbers?"

What's with the "Distribution: usa" stuff guys?  Do you think the
rest of us haven't heard of these climbers too (we have), or that we don't
get the same mags (we do), or that we don't enjoy the annual sport climber
vs Real Alpinist tm flame war and magazine bashing (depends).

[Curiously, E.N.M's followups arrived here despite the distribution, but
not the originals.  Such is the way of the net.]

So, fill me in; what's this all about?

-- 
Hugh Grierson          Fujitsu/ICL New Zealand - Software Development Centre
hugh@nezsdc.icl.co.nz                Speaking for myself only.  See figure 1.
    Quote of the decade: "We're not just talking about unpopulated areas
     of the Southern Hemisphere anymore" [Pres. Bush, on the Ozone hole]
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jagat@gda.cadence.com (Jagat Patel)
Subject: Indoor Climbing Gyms
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 03:44:38 GMT


        Does anyone know much about the indoor climbing Gym in 
        North Conway, NH?
From: ande@sierra.com (Ande Rychter)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Russian climbing oxygen
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:59:23 GMT
Organization: Sierra Geophysics Inc.,  Kirkland, Wa


This announcement appeared in the latest (vol. 7, nr 199) issue of the 
American Alpine News (a publication of the American Alpine Club):

  "EXPEDITION OXYGEN:  Widely acclaimed Russian climbing oxygen now
   available to Western mountaineers!  Ultralight, high pressure tanks,
   warm and sturdy face masks, and easy-to-use regulators can now be
   ordered directly form the Moscow manufacturer and shipped to expeditions
   in Nepal, China, and Pakistan.  Contact High Ascent Light O2,
   4128 1/2 California Avenue SW - Suite 121, Seattle  WA 98116 or
   FAX 206-932-9520."

The system is the same one used on the Everest Peace Climb two years ago.
Apparently, the cylinders are made of titanium resulting in a substantially 
decreased total weight compared to the standard systems which are based on 
fiber glass reinforced Al cylinders.

I'm not associated in any way with High Ascent Light O2.

Ande Rychter
ande@sierra.com
Seattle
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: cptully@med.unc.edu (Christopher P. Tully,Pathology,62699)
Subject: Re: A social commentary about "climbers" vs
Reply-To: cptully@med.unc.edu
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 16:22:52 GMT

In article 0C6549C0@Msu.oscs.montana.edu, uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu () writes:
>Since WHEN do Fowler, Bachar, Lowe, and Croft have "Attitude Problems"????
>Maybe they're all marginally successful BUSINESSMEN, but all of them I've
>met personally and they seem like genuinely nice people...

Yeah, some people thought Hitler was a nice guy too.  Don't bother
flaming me, I'm just trying to point out that different people have
different opinions.


---
*********************************************************************
Chris(topher) P. Tully				<cptully@med.unc.edu>
Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill		1122 Vic Charles Dr.
Department of Pathology				Raleigh, NC 27606
CB# 7525			work: (919) 966-2699
Chapel Hill, NC 27599		hone: (919) 851-8816
*********************************************************************
I get paid for my opinions, but that doesn't mean that UNC or anybody
                     else agrees with them.
From: anne@igor.tamri.com (Anne Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Information request:  El Potrero Chico
Date: 7 Oct 92 22:07:15 GMT
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA



I have heard sketchy rumors concerning El Potrero Chico:
"The Future Global Winter Sport Climbing Destination",
located near Monterey, Mexico. Something about miles and
miles of Buoux - quality limestone. . . .

There was a brief article in the "Basecamp" section of
_Climbing_ magazine about a year ago, containing general
directions and topos of about a dozen routes.
I am looking for any more recent information.

Has anyone out there visited this area or heard any
more about it?

Thanks in advance for any leads,

-Anne
-- 
*******************************************************************************
		   |  				
	        / O|				
	        `-#'			Anne Smith
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Lubricating Cams
Date: 7 Oct 1992 23:52:00 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver-248

In article <1992Oct6.161530.23917@hellgate.utah.edu> allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:
>gustave@ada.seas.ucla.edu (Gustave R. Stroes) writes:
>>I was wondering if anyone out there has any advice on what
>>to use to lubricate the various moving parts on climbing
>>equipment (carabiners, cams etc.).
>
>The best solution I have found is to clean the equipment with soapy hot
>water first. I use Tri-Flow on the moving points, wiping off the excess.
>WD-40 will actually attract dirt so it is not reccomended.
>
>Allen
>
>PS Tri-Flow is a silicon if I remember correctly.


Tri-flow used to be called Tef-flow because it is teflon based
and was infringing on the Dupont trademark Teflon.

Unfortunately, those of us the used to use it on our bike can attest
that it becomes gunky with use and attracts dirt.

Bruce
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: bobh@minaret.hwr.arizona.edu (Bob Harrington)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Lubricating Cams
Date: 7 Oct 92 19:49:30 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Arizona -- Tucson, AZ

In article <1992Oct6.161530.23917@hellgate.utah.edu> allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:
>gustave@ada.seas.ucla.edu (Gustave R. Stroes) writes:
>>I was wondering if anyone out there has any advice on what
>>to use to lubricate the various moving parts on climbing
>>equipment (carabiners, cams etc.).
>
>The best solution I have found is to clean the equipment with soapy hot
>water first. I use Tri-Flow on the moving points, wiping off the excess.
>WD-40 will actually attract dirt so it is not reccomended.
>
>Allen
>
>PS Tri-Flow is a silicon if I remember correctly.

I've used powdered graphite. It has the advantage that there's no liquid to
attract dirt. This is what was recommended when Friends first came out. 

Bob Harrington

PPS I think Tri-flow is graphite in suspension in silicon.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Repeat of: A social commentary about "climbers" vs. "People who climb\
	(or play like it)" w/o usa Distribution and lines made shorter
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 18:06:21 GMT

Otay kids.  Here is my $0.32 worth.

Let's face it.  Most of the population of climbing homosapiens belong to the 
"climbing public", as that geek Alison Osius at CLIMBING calls them.  These are
the people who climb in the gym and the safe, warm sport climbs (play climbing).
  Then there are the "climbers" of the world.  People like Charlie Fowler, 
John Bachar, Jeff Lowe, Peter Croft, etc.  People who do phenomenal things and
don't run off to get it "published".  That is, they love climbing for the
beauty, joy, fear, pleasure and suffering that it brings. 
  A "climber" is someone who is adept at all forms of climbing: from thin
finger cracks to offwidth cracks; thin slabs to overhanging, loose faces;
skilled in aid climbing and ice climbing.  Based on this I think one can see
just what the difference between the "climbing public" and "climbers" really
is.  
  And another point: let's get CLIMBING to rename their magazine to
"YUPPIE CLIMBER - TRAVEL AND FASHION" magazine.  Maybe something similar for
ROCK&ICE magazine. The climbing masses are destroying the "sport" for
commercial gain and the entire spirit of climbing is being smothered by the
"beautiful people" as yet another chic thing to do.  "Ooo...  I can't put
pro every 5 feet and I might scratch my bracelet.
Besides, the crack is bigger than my beautiful little hands."  
  Let's face it, crack climbing is for CLIMBERS not for PEOPLE WHO CLIMB.
So all of you upper-class ego-driven people who climb stay away from places
fragil and beautiful.  It is too precious for you to tread upon with your
latest fashional "hiking boot", mountain bike and suave fashional yet
functional clothing!
  OK - so my head hurts, my feet stink and I don't love Jesus.  Just had to
dump this into cyberspace.

Let me put the asbestos screen cover on and you can flame me til you run out of
cpu cycles!

--Rawl Stenson 
Radical Fashion Terrorist and CLIMBER Goddamnit!
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: rwaters@spdg.com (Rolland Waters)
Subject: Bolt Litter (was Re: A social commentary, & equipping nature)
Organization: Stratos Product Development Group (Seattle)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 23:22:49 GMT

In article <> Doug.Hemken@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Doug Hemken) writes:
>Might as well get in my 2 rupees worth, everyone else is.
Me Too!

Rolland paraphrases what Doug wrote, probably distorting it:
> It used to be that the route = rock, now it's route = rock + pro,
> since the pro is fixed and you don't have to place it. Good pro 
> is no longer an attribute of the climber, good pro is an attribute 
> of the route.

Hasn't good pro has always (potentially) been an attribute of the
route?  There are plenty of routes in the Gunks that qualify as
"sport" if sport=safety.  Most of them don't sport fixed pro, what
fixed pro is thereis used to protect the rock from piton-bashing.

For better or worse, the golden age of going out and climbing stuff
that hasn't been climbed before is over.  I don't understand the
point of view that alpine climbing = true climbing.  An alpinist
is even more dependent than a sport climber on his or her gear.
Mountainering also changes the environment, human and otherwise,
as evidenced by the litter and culture thrashing in Nepal.

The dependence on bolts by sport climbers is as much a function of the
route as it is fear of heights.  Much available rock, and most rock at
the hard grades, doesn't support natural gear, so bolts get put in.  I
clip bolts, but I hate looking at them.  

I've often thought it would be cool just to have holes rather than
bolts, and have everybody have a rack of bolts they insert themselves
(on lead) that their second would clean.  Such a bolt design is
feasible; I have one sketched out on paper.  Obviously, it might not
work on softer rock, but on granite routes it would go a long way to
solving	the bolt litter problem.

Do people feel this is a feasible approach? The device I have in mind
should actually be stronger than an equivalent bolt, and only
marginally heavier (if at all) than a quickdraw set.  Would you use 
them?  


Rolland
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: isopropyl for cleaning cams?
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 17:50:50 GMT
Distribution: usa Just  an additional  comment  regarding the use   of isopropanol for

Typicall: Delrin (a trademark of duPont), a version of Nylon.
Ask your vendor for appropriate cleaning instructions.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			Imhof, Cartographic Relief Presentation
			Books on or by Benjamin Whorf
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Subject: Re: Mo
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 02:49:56 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <LAUNCE.92Oct14160030@apollo.med.utah.edu> launce@apollo.med.utah.edu (Tri-Ungulate) writes:
>I'm interested in becoming an "real alpinist" -- maybe someday once I
>get the resources (not to mention the time) to buy a whole new set of
>*very expensive* toys (borrowing/renting stuff is always such a drag).

Toys aren't the problem.  Time off work, so you can sit in your tent
for weeks at a time waiting out a storm -- that is the problem.

Climbing leave?  Our country's president won't even legitimize family leave.

I have a solution to the country's unemployment problem.  I'll give you
a hint: it doesn't involve building more factories to produce more *JUNK*.

Some countries catch on faster than us.  Consider that the typical German
worker gets six weeks of vacation plus numerous holidays.

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: msc@ssigate.ssinc.com (Michael S. Cross)
Subject: Re: rapelling safety (was: Re: Climber Killed in Yosemite)
Organization: Systems and Synchronous Inc., Naperville, IL
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:56:06 GMT

>>/ hpdmd48:rec.climbing / paale@stud.cs.uit.no (Paal Ellingsen) /  9:19 am  Sep 28, 1992 /
>>
>>I mean, won't the prusik get stuck in the rappel device if you tie it in below
>>the brake? But then, I use a figure-of-8 brake. What do you use?
>>

and jeffw@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (jeff waldeck) writes:

>I think the trick is to adjust the length of the Prusik so that it will
>"bite" before jamming your belay device. At least, that is what I do.
>When descending, you grab the Prusik and break it free. To stop, let the
>Prusik bite again. Pretty foolproof, really, as long as it is correctly
>set up!

If I read the question above correctly, yes, the prusik does go above the
brake.  (At least that's the way I've seen it in the books/magazines)
It is supposed to be up far enough so you can hold it with your balance
hand.  If it were below the rappel device, I don't know how you could
move it without taking your brake hand off the rope >>which you should
NEVER do!<<

Hope it helps (tm).

Mike

-- 
Michael S. Cross         Work: msc@ssihub.ssinc.com               708-505-4508
      Home: 73750.1363@CompuServe.com  (but not exactly *proud* of it)
Systems and Synchronous Inc., 900 E. Diehl Rd, Suite 110, Naperville, IL 60563
__________________________To Live is to risk Dying____________________________
From: j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:19:38 GMT
Subject: Re: At last! Deyhydrated beer
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing

In rec.climbing, jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece) writes:

> Taken verbatim from today's San Jose Mercury-News:
> 
> CONSUMER CORNER
> 
> Packaged Beer Lightens The Load
> 
> PRODUCT: South Hills dehydrated beer.
> 
> DESCRIPTION: A beer-flavored, non-alcoholic, carbonated, dry beverage
> made with maltodextrine, natural and artificial beer and malt flavors,
> dried beer, and corn syrup solids.  It's packaged in 5-ounce (150g)
> packet that must be mixed with 8 fluid ounces (250 ml) of cold water
> for drinking.
> 

Praise the Lord.  Now I can start doing overnight trips again.

Mort

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: OW was Overhangs
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 20:07:32 GMT

>>In article <106480261@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM
>(Jeff Elison) writes:
>>|> The idea of thinking like Dr. OW scares me.  At least I still know enough
>>|> to stay away from any crack bigger than my fist.

Nonsense, it's good for you.

>In article <1992Sep25.193355.17393@odin.corp.sgi.com>
>bruceb@roadrunner.denver.sgi.com (Bruce Bailey) writes:
>>Yes, however this personality deficiency can be "corrected" through
>>"treatment".  Mort, we need to schedule an "appointment!

Be certain you send an appropriately large bill.

In article <Sep30.162146.86711@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>
trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>Wow, this would work better than thorazine or shock "therapy" for
>maintaining discipline in mental institutions.  "Behave yourself
>or we'll make you climb that off-width again."

You make this sound more like B&D/S&M.
"Thank you sir/mame.  Yes, please, another?"
Where else to use those 4 inch Friends?  Those tube chocks, and Big bros?

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			Imhof, Cartographic Relief Presentation
			Books on or by Benjamin Whorf
			Wulf et al, The Design of an Optimizing Compiler
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Subject: Re: Food to take on climbs/ Job opening
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:45:22 GMT

In article <Bw2tAt.A00@spdg.com>, rwaters@spdg.com
 (Rolland Waters) writes:
|>In article <> j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison) writes:
|>> As for liquids - water is great, "toxic sport" drinks are a little better.
|>> Studies have shown that those special drinks are absorbed more quickly than
|>> plain water.  Watered down fruit juices are good, but they should be less
|>> than 50% juice for best absorption.
|>
|>Studies also show that *cold* water (38-45 degrees Farenheit, ~3-5
|>degrees C) is absorbed significantly faster than warm water.  Yet
|>another reason to go sport climbing - you don't have to lug the cooler
|>so far!

There is another perspective to this issue ... I'll let Paul
Petzolt's answer when asked about the new hot shot climbers
say it all.  Basically, he said he'd never trust them to go on
a climb (I assume he's referring to a long route on a mountain,
as opposed to a one-pitch sport route) ... he said he was afraid
that they would collapse if they ran out of candy bars.  

--
Greg Jahn Boise State Univ.|'I decided to just lie low and let events
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu /|take their course. Maybe that's the way
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    /|the sheep think as they are led off to the
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  /|the slaughterhouse.' On marriage, Camilo Cela

From: j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:47:12 GMT
Subject: Re: Food to take on climbs/ Job opening
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA