From: dan@cubmol.bio.columbia.EDU (Daniel Zabetakis)
Subject: Nudity in general (was: Anyone noticed the ...)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Organization: Columbia University, Dept. of Biological Sciences.
Date: 27 Sep 92 20:33:23 GMT

In article <199209250051.AA29546@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.UCI.EDU (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>>In article <195ur3INN5mq@agate.berkeley.edu> dan@cubmol.bio.columbia.edu (Daniel Zabetakis) writes:
>>>
>>
>>>   I think some people who support toplessness, don't realise the
>>>implications of it. It women have the freedom to go topless, then the
>>>image of naked female breasts is going to become popular, and you
>>>must realize that it will be seen most commonly in beer commercials.
>
>NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!  If breasts are all around and
>widely acknowledged as EXISTING, the fascination would die out
>rapidly.

   I don't see why this would be. Breasts are things very closely
associated with sexuality. I can't be sure, but I do not think that
this is only an effect of social conditioning. More below...

>American men, when they go to Europe for vacation, ALWAYS make it a
>point to stop at the beaches -- "Ooooh, look at the titties, look at
>the titties!"  Hell, frequently, they bring CAMERAS.  They stand
>there with their jaw hanging staring at all these marvelous boobs.

   Oh, please. Can you say "unfair stereotype"?

[further observations about Europe deleted]

   I understand that Europe is more liberal about breasts than the US
is in general. But from what I can see in European TV, movies, and the
like, there is no lack of emphasis on breasts as sexual objects.
There's a scene I know of in a Monty Pythin show where a man actually
grabs a woman's breast.  No faking, not camera angles. He really did
it.  I doubt you would see that in the US, but I gather that it
happens in European TV because they are more liberal.
   As far as I can tell, there is no great difference between the
treatment of breasts in Europe and in the US.

>I say it again, if ALL women, regardless of how closely they measure
>up to the standards of beauty, could go without shirts on a hot day,
>we would rapidly lose interest in breasts -- the perverse, puerile
>interest we now have.  Women and men would find out that there isn't
>some USDA certified breast out there that we all wish we had.

   I'm not sure what you mean by "perverse, puerile", but you seem
above to be talking about sexual interest in breasts. If you are still
talkign about it, then I don't believe that the interest will be lost.
I don't see why it should be. I can see and appreciate a persons
beauty; her hair, her legs, her general body shape. The size and shape
of her breasts. I don't see why my attitude would change if I could
also see her breasts.

  More flame bait:

   the first women to take advantage of a socail acceptance of general
toplessness (in a non-beach environment) will be prostitutes.

DanZ

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