From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: I'm God.
Date: 9 Oct 92 21:33:51 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications, Plano Tx.

In article <ksand-081092175554@wintermute.apple.com> ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:
>In article <70503@hydra.gatech.EDU>, rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard
>Pitts) wrote:
>> |Interesting, a simple question, why didn't the Christians publish
>> |all five hundred Gospels? What was wrong with them, contradictions
>> |maybe?
>> 
>> There could have been, but maybe not.  These four could be representative
>> of all of the gospels.  
>
>Or then they could have been so different, so the only four that seemed
>to be streamlined are the ones we have today. I've actually read some
>of these additional Gospels, and they are on the borderline of wishful
>speculation and myth building of Jesus as a child. In other words these
>Gospels seems to have elements that the early church didn't recognize, and
>in order to somehow streamline the doctrines they had to disappear.
> 
>> Matthew and Mark both write about Jesus saying something like "Eloi, Eloi,
>> My God, My God why have you forsaken me."  Then they close with the
>> following.
>> 
>>    Mat 27:50   And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up
>>        his spirit.
>>    
>>    Mark 15:37   With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last.
>> 
>> Luke does not cover the above, but says Jesus died with this.
>>    
>>    Luke 23:46   Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I
>>       commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.
>> 
>> There is no contradiction.  Two say he cried out and died and the other
>> states what he said when he cried out and then died.
>> 
>> If they had all said the same thing, would you not say they copied?
>
>They would tell the same story. As it's now they don't. In other words
>are we dealing with word of mouth, or someone witnessing the events? I
>let the intelligent reader make the decision.
>
>Anyway, I'm curious to know why Jesus thought God had forsaken him? 
>Problems?
>
>Kent
>	Faith is often the boast of the man who is too lazy to	investigate. -F.M.
>Knowles
>-------------------
>Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
>DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.

First time posting of anything. Here goes.

It is possible that the words "Eli, Eli, Lama sabachtani" have
meanings on more than one level.  Tumultuous things were happening
some perceptible to those present, others not perceptible.  It
was not clear to the witnesses exactly what he was saying.  The
evangelist gave one interpretation, which we have translated
as "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"  I have also
heard it said (Rudolf Steiner) that a more correct rendering is
"why have you _glorified_ me".  I have always been uncomfortable
with the idea that this cry was a sign of his "perfect humannesss".

Christ was God and Man, but as for the latter, I believe he became
_more_ man than any human being before him since the fall.  His
incarnation, which did not end in the finality of death that we
fallen men experience, penetrated through death and into resurrection
into the very heart of the earth itself.  Here we have not just
the condescenscion into the fallen condition of the earthly body
of human existence, but the transformation of that body into the
human body of resurrection, the seed of which has been planted
and will bear fruit in all of us one day.  The mysteries of his
pain and suffering are not to be wished away by simple formulas,
nor is his humanness to be explained in terms of what we "know"
to be "all too human".  As with his passion and suffering, so
also with his death, its meaning is something that can only be
the subject of the deepest contemplation, the understanding of
which may grow in time, like a plant in our souls. Even - or 
rather especially - Christians should take care to note that the
death and resurrection of Christ is something greater than all
theologies, important as these may be in helping us to come
nearer to them.  This does not mean that what we do and can know
of it is not of the most central and vital importance right now,
but rather that there is more to come still as its vital force
takes hold of us more and more.

    Gerry Palo