HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard)
Subject: Re: Scud rockets hit Israel
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 01:37:05 GMT

In article <1992Sep24.100851.202896@uctvax.uct.ac.za> snggab01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>
>I have heard an earful from many Jews and Christians about biblical prophecies
>and the miracle of the 39 scud missiles hitting crowded buildings in Israel
>during the Gulf War with only one person directly being killed as a result  of
>the scuds (that individual supposedly being completely irreligious and owning a
>pork factory.) I am rather skeptical about the 'miracle' of the whole situation
>but would like some more info to back up my skepticism.Can anybody out there
>destroy the miracle theory eg.From the point of view of a ballistics analysis.

I had the impression quite a few broke up in the air, just falling scrap metal
isn't that dangerous if your indoors. My home town got hit by debris from
a tornado 20 miles away, luckily everyone was indoors because of the rain.
There where even shingles imbedded several inchs into trees. But during the
storm we didn't notice anything unusual.

Of course the scuds with intact warheads are a quite a bit worse :-) but you
still have alot of open space in cities so many probably didn't even hit
structures.  
-- 
------          Join the Pythagorean Reform Church!               .
\    /        Repent of your evil irrational numbers             . .
 \  /   and bean eating ways. Accept 10 into your heart!        . . .
  \/   Call the Pythagorean Reform Church BBS at 508-793-9568  . . . .
From: swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: What did Judas betray?
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:54:59 GMT
Reply-To: swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <10470@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> bobb@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine) writes:
|
|  By the classical definition of work, the bloke should have never
|  even lifted his butt out of bed in the morning.  
|
Sigh, I hope this is intended as a joke.

The Orthodox Jewish approach is a *legalistic* one.  They have a set of
documents (starting with the Torah) which give exact definitions of every
category of activity regulated by the Jewish laws.  They are being constantly
updated to keep up with new technology.

For instance, travel was forbidden on the Sabbath, which, prior to automobiles,
meant one could not walk more than a certain distance.  Now, it has been
decreed that driving is traveling, and is forbidden on the Sabbath.  This is
why you see the Orthodox walking to synagogue on Saturday.

In general, the principle has been that using a machine to do the work is
still working on the Sabbath.  This is the principle behind the elevator
restriction.
-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata - FSO)
Subject: Re: "Jehovah" TRIBE OF RENEGAD SPACE CANNIBALS
Keywords: Ethnic divisions,Syria,Lebanon,Egypt
Organization: HFS, Inc., McLean VA
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 02:09:31 GMT

In article <Sep.26.17.50.13.1992.23284@gandalf.rutgers.edu> patricka@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Patrick Anderson) writes:
>
>Perhaps I can be of some assistance.
> 
>Egypt: Eastern Hamitic stock 90%; Greek, Italian, Syro-Lebanese 10%.
> 
>Syria: Arab 90.3%; Kurds, Armenians, and other 9.7%.
> 
>Lebanon: Arab 95%, Armenian 4%, other 1%.
> 
>(according to the CIA World Fact Book)
> 
>This seems a little vague to me. I thought arabs were semites distinct
>from the Mediterranean coastal semites (i.e. Syrians/Phoenecians,
>Israelis/Israelites). But, regardless, perhaps we can ask an Egyptian
>whether he considers himself to be an arab?

A true "Arab" originates from Arabia (Saudi Arabia) by definition.
The "Arab" population of Syria, Lebanon and Egypt do not consider
thenselves as such because they never originated from Arabia.  We
in the US, however, lump them together and call them Arabs.

> 
>Love,
>Xenu
> 


-- 
John G. Ata - Technical Consultant | Internet:  ata@hfsi.com
HFS, Inc.		  VA20     |     UUCP:  uunet!hfsi!ata
7900 Westpark Drive	 MS:601	   |    Voice:	(703) 827-6810
McLean, VA  22102	           |      FAX:	(703) 827-3729
From: jlg@cochiti.lanl.gov (Jim Giles)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Some Real Physics (Was: Re: Of Egg Yolks and Astrology)
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:31:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: newshost.1992Sep30.233135.17673
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory

In article <30SEP199211494188@csa1.lbl.gov>, sichase@csa1.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE) writes:
|> In article <BvCL3L.IEB@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, shallit@graceland.uwaterloo.ca (Jeffrey Shallit) writes...
|> >In article <1a0jrsINNqp7@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ak104@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert Clark) writes:

|> [...]                     They cite the enormous gravitational
|> >>influence of the tides to show how fluids on the earth, and by
|> >>extrapoloation fluids in our bodies, are affected by astronomical
|> >>objects. 
|> > 
|> >Yes, we can be sure-- when the gravitational pull of the doctor/midwife
|> >who delivered you is greatly exceeds the total gravitational pull of the
|> >other planets.
|> 
|> Come on. This is just not true.  Have any of you gugs who believe this
|> actually tried to work out the numbers?   Geez.
|> 
|> Sun vs. Doctor:
|> 
|> Doctor:  100 Kg at 2 feet from the baby.
|> Sun:     2E30 Kg at 9.3E7 miles from the baby.
|> [... calculation ...]
|> So the bottom line is that the Sun has a pull more than 300,000 times the
|> pull of the doctor.

But, for the gravity due to the sun, the baby, hospital, doctor, mother
and all are in approximate free-fall.  Total effect on the baby is very
tiny.  And the mother is much closer than two feet - so what about *her*
gravity?  Further, the gravitational and other inertial forces are related 
to geographic position (mountains are _heavy_ and relatively close, Earth's 
spin makes you lighter at the equator, you're further from the Earth's center 
at the equator: so you're lighter still, etc..).  Further, the astrological 
analogy is to *tides* - and tides fall off as the *cube* of the distance, 
not the square.

A question about gravitometry: do mountains have such greater effect 
on the local gravitational force than the sun does that the time of 
day is not recorded or corrected for when measuring for a gravitational 
anomaly map?  Since the Earth as a whole (and therefore all part of it 
*approximately*) is in free-fall relative to the sun, you can't decide 
this based on a naive comparison of the inverse-square law.

-- 
J. Giles
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: J. Witnesses
Date: 29 Sep 1992 03:07:03 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Sep22.162609.236@hfsi.uucp>, ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata - FSO) writes:
>One can always play logical games as this and come up with the
>conclusion that there is no such thing as selflessness.

I don't consider that to be playing logical games, especially when someone
starts claiming that his brand of selfishness is better than my brand of
selfishness, just because he's chosen to label his brand "selflessness."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Well known scientifc facts
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:50:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: m.1992Oct1.145058.3190
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science

In article <13044@ntdd-1>, meier@Software.Mitel.COM (Rolf Meier) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep28.222319.13990@ims.com> chapman@ims.com (Dave Chapman) writes:
|> 
|> >The measurement of normal body temperature was off by about 0.5%.
|> 
|> 
|> What do you mean by 0.5%?
|> 
|> 0.5% of 100?
|> 
|> 0.5% of 37?
|> 
|> 0.5% of 310?
|> 
|> You have to be very careful when you talk about % of a temperature.
|> Have you ever heard a radio announcer say "The high today will be
|> 30, only half as warm as yesterday, when it was 60".  What is he
|> talking about?  If the temperature were 0, is there no warmth?  If 
|> the temperature is -10, how much warmth is there?
|> 
|> _____________________________________________________________________
|> Rolf Meier					Mitel Corporation

So what is the "right" thing to say?  I made a careless comment like this
too.  It's fine for you to say "be careful" but you weren't kind enough
to actually give away a good answer.  That said, I will now partly 
correct a previous remark and take a stand on the issue.  

So far, I have seen two ways I like of experessing the amount of
"error" here:

  1.  based on the absolute temperature, which is what is being measured
  in principle.  In this case, the correction is tiny, as < 1 degree out
  of 300 is pretty small.

  2.  based on the measured or estimated range of possible human temperatures.
  In this case, the correction is a bit larger, as human temps can't vary
  more than some 10 or so degrees without drastic consequences.  Still,
  this gives a change of 10% or less, which is not exactly gigantic.

I think the first measure emphasizes the difference from the point of view 
of the method of measurement, and the second indicates the difference from
the point of view of its interpretation.

Of course, the "if this holy number was wrong then your whole religion
called science is wrong" folks couldn't care less about such issues.
For them I simply say:  the previous estimate was very close, and
so the new study actually largely CONFIRMS the previous study, showing
that "the religion called science" is more valid than ever.

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: johnson@spectra.com (boyd johnson)
Subject: Re: Crucified for Prophecy's Sake? (was: What did Judas betray?)
Organization: Spectragraphics Corporation
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 16:35:40 GMT

In article <KENTD.92Sep29215814@zappa.FtCollins.NCR.com> kentd@FtCollins.NCR.com (Kent Dalton) writes:
>>>>>> On 29 Sep 92 19:17:31 GMT, sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) said:
>
>Robert> In article <1992Sep29.160944.26657@spectra.com> johnson@spectra.com (boyd johnson) writes:
>
>>He may have been crucified rather than stoned to fulfill prophecy.
>
>FWIW, I doubt the Jews and Romans were terribly concerned with making
>Jesus's death fit the prophecies :^)

That's the thing about prophecies.  It really doesn't matter whether or
not those fulfilling the prophecies even know about the prophecies.
If they did know about them and worked to fulfill them I would doubt
that the prophecy was really fulfilled by God, but rather they were
staged by man.

>>Check out:
>>	Psalm 34:20
>
>034:020 He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken.
>
>>	Psalm 22:13-18
>022:013 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a
>        roaring lion.
>022:014 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint:
>        my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
>022:015 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue
>        cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of
>        death.
>022:016 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have
>        inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
>022:017 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
>022:018 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my
>        vesture.


In article <1992Sep30.174735.22504@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>
>Oh, how clear this is. These verses OBVIOUSLY prophecy a crucifixion!   

No, not obviously crucifixion, but since not one bone was broken it
obviously wasn't by stoning and since his hands and feet were pierced,
bones were out of joint, etc there are very few options other than
crucifixion or some bizarre method of drawing and quartering.

The prophecies are much clearer than anything Nostrodomus [sic] ever
did, but if they were too clear there would be the danger of a staged
incident.  A little ambiguity helps people realize afterward that
prophecy was fulfilled.

Again, note that my first sentence in my original article said "He may
have been ..." not "He was ...".
I don't believe _incontrovertable_ facts are laid out in the OT to support
that.

-- 
======== Boyd Johnson    nosc!spectra.com!johnson  San Diego, Ca. ========


-- 
======== Boyd Johnson    nosc!spectra.com!johnson  San Diego, Ca. ========
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.folklore.urban
From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Of Egg Yolks and Astrology
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 17:55:07 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1a0jrsINNqp7@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ak104@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert Clark) writes:
>
>
> Proponents of astrology have used the argument that the different
>gravitation pulls of the Sun and the Moon on the Earth at different
>times of the year could be used to explain the alleged differences
>in personality by birthdate. They cite the enormous gravitational
>influence of the tides to show how fluids on the earth, and by
>extrapoloation fluids in our bodies, are affected by astronomical
>objects. 
>  Critics have attacked this by saying you need tremendous amounts
>of mass to detect these _differential_ effects and by using statements
>like "the weight of the doctor has a greater gravit. effect on you
>at birth than the moon does." I've always bought these arguments.
>HOWEVER, the recent autumnal equinox has given me pause. I was looking
>at a picture of an egg balanced on its end and reading the caption to
>the picture which stated that only during the vernal or autumnal equinox
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>may a fresh egg be balanced on its end, when I started wondering
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>how such a small amount of mass can detect this effect.


I think that the right place to bring this up is on 
"alt.folklore.urban". Heck, it might even be in their FAQ file.


-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
Xref: sparky sci.skeptic:17131 alt.folklore.urban:24480
From: twcaps@tennyson.lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: Of Egg Yolks and Astrology
Date: 29 Sep 1992 20:09:36 GMT
Organization: Department of Redundancy Department
Reply-To: TWChan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.117

JRowe@cen.ex.ac.uk (John Rowe) writes:
  +
  +	I thought the secret of balancing eggs upright was to use a
  +little slight of hand to put down a small pile of salt or similar
  +and balance the egg on that. Another UL?

No, actually, that's what they invented superglue for.

Terry "Mr. Wizard" Chan
--
Energy and Environment Division   | Internet:  TWChan@lbl.gov
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory      | 
Berkeley, California  USA  94720  | Carpe Per Diem
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Crucified for Prophecy's Sake? (was: What did Judas betray?)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:47:35 GMT

In article <KENTD.92Sep29215814@zappa.FtCollins.NCR.com> kentd@FtCollins.NCR.com (Kent Dalton) writes:
>
>
>034:020 He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken.
>
>022:013 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a
>        roaring lion.
>022:014 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint:
>        my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
>022:015 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue
>        cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of
>        death.
>022:016 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have
>        inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
>022:017 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
>022:018 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my
>        vesture.

Oh, how clear this is. These verses OBVIOUSLY prophecy a crucifixion!   


-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: leet@ims.com (Lee Thomas)
Subject: Re: What did Judas betray?
Organization: Integrated Measurement Systems, Inc.
	<1992Sep22.045431.13425@newsroom.utas.edu.au>
	<1992Sep22.174419.906@hfsi.uucp> <LEET.92Sep23080525@dove.ims.com>
	<GERRY.92Sep24103141@onion.cmu.edu>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 17:03:48 GMT

>>>>> On 24 Sep 92 15:31:41 GMT, gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) said:

Gerry> In article <LEET.92Sep23080525@dove.ims.com> leet@ims.com (Lee Thomas) writes:

Lee>    (N.B.: This does not imply that Jews as a race are to blame for Jesus'
Lee>    death, but only that *some* of the leaders at *that* time were.)

By which I meant to say that I am not one of those Christians who
is an anti-Semite; precisely the opposite is true.  I believe that
Gentiles were admitted into Christianity by the skin of their teeth,
and we should be grateful that Peter and James changed their minds.
Any Christian who holds a grudge against Jews is woefully ignorant of
both God's feelings toward Israel and the Church's debt to the early
faithful leaders and members, *all* of whom were Jewish.

[ Gerry's flamethrower response deleted. ]

Actually, Gerry, I'm a Zionist (and if I were not a Christian, I would
*not* be a Zionist), but I didn't want to say so, to keep arguments
about international politics out of this newsgroup.  I won't insult
you any worse than you already have been with a "Some of my best
friends ..." response, but it's true.

I am sorry that you took offense at my remark.  I pray for the peace
of Jerusalem, too ...
--
Lee Thomas,  leet@ims.com      | "Think not that I am come to destroy the law,
Integrated Measurement Systems |  or the prophets; I am not come to destroy,
9525 SW Gemini Dr.             |  but to fulfill." - Matthew 5:17
Beaverton, Or 97005            |  
(503) 626-7117, ext. 1558      |  





Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Famous Last Words
Date: 4 Oct 1992 02:24:22 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Sep30.032716.5936@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU>, dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott) writes:
>
>A number of people in this group refuted the suggestion that
>manned flight (as we know it today) was once thought impossible.

Actually, the word you're looking for is "disputed," not "refuted."  Had the
matter actually been refuted to your satisfaction, you wouldn't have posted the
article to which I'm responding.  Nobody in this newsgroup ever said that
NOBODY ever believed that manned flight (as we know it today) was impossible. 
Rather the claim was that there was never any scientific concensus to that
effect.

>Anyone got more quotes like the above?

I don't remember the exact words, nor whether it was Wilbur or Orville who made
the claim that commercial aviation would never happen.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
From: wsadjw@rw7.urc.tue.nl (Jan Willem Nienhuys)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Standing on the Cliffs of Atlantis
Date: 6 Oct 92 09:19:31 GMT
Reply-To: wsadjw@urc.tue.nl
Organization: Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands

In article <31470@goofy.Apple.COM> (batman@apple.apple.com (Ken Laws)) writes:
>somewhere: Thira is the source of the Atlantis legend.
>When the volcano blew long ago, most of the island fell beneath
>the sea.
>
>So, where did I hear this, and is it the "standard
>explanation?"

In a way, yes.  But there are many "standard explanations".
One involves Plato hearing the story somewhere, and mistranslating
times and distances, so "Crete, 900 years ago" became a huge island
9000 years ago (a similar mistranslation probably made Methusalem
969 years rather than moons old). 
The relation with Thera is that the explosion must have sent an 
enormous tidal wave to Crete, wiping out lots of people, the culture,
and certainly the political power.  The "Atlantis story" reports that
there were unnavigable muddy shoals on that place afterwards, which ties
in with the enormous amounts of pumice floating on the water afterwards.

Maybe Plato made it all up, and used ingredients of bits and pieces of
legends known at that time. Remember, the whole point of the Atlantis
story is: "Athenians can resist a foreign invading power, because they've
done it before, namely when the Atlanteans attacked". 

The theory that Atlantis *was* Thera seems less probable, there are
too many descriptions in the story (great plain, encircling river, 
bull festivals) that don't quite tie in with a volcanic island and
the Cycladic culture.

JWN
From: onar@hsr.no (Onar Aam)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Clinton and Creationism
Date: 6 Oct 92 07:23:06 GMT
Organization: Rogaland University Centre

>>Uh, if we're "on our way to becoming a third-world nation", it's not
>>due to the citizens who were taught after 1981 (who are generally
>>still too young to have worked much after college) but due to the
>>citizens who were taught between the time of the Scopes trial and
>>1981.
>
>I'd place it more on the citizens who were taught between the time of the HUAC
>hearings of the '50s and the present.
>

Oh come on, you guys! How can you say that your country is on its way to the
stoneage because of the religious belief of those generations? People once
believed that the earth was flat and that's a lot worse, but did the world go
about? No. It even progressed scientifically and finally accepted the FACT that
the earth is round. This will happen in America too. The reason, I might add,
that you are currently experiencing a dip in your economy is: 7 hours of
television pr. day, junk food, new car when you're 16, glorification of stupidity
(refer to the "nerd" syndrome) and generally the expectation of something to
happen without doing anything for it.


Onar.