From: eric@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Hirst)
Subject: SUMMARY: Aid gear for the upstart
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 01:09:32 GMT

Here's a summary of responses to my recent query on clean aid gear.  Thanks
to all who responded.

In general, everybody who has used the Petzl Expedition ascenders likes them,
and everybody who has used the Clog Expedition ascenders likes them too.
The Petzls seem to be harder to accidentally remove from the rope, and are
cheaper and less bulky.  Sewn aiders are generally preferred over knotted
ones, and people who sew their own generally found the additional work to
be pretty tedious.  Double aiders were mentioned, and have the advantage
of allowing stable foot placements (heels together, toes apart on the rock)
when high-stepping on sketchy gear.  There was no consensus on the relative
merits of one inch vs. two inch webbing.  Adjustable daisy chains are sometimes
appropriate, as are chest harnesses (for jugging). Sport climbing slippers
are less than ideal for standing in aiders all day.  The new BD triple hook
was highly recommended for hook moves, as were several others.  The standard
sized camhooks also make short work of old pin scarred seams.  I have heard
that small camhooks are not that useful and that the big ones are only good
in cracks where you can stuff SLCD's anyway.  Exceptions will of course abound.

The FISH catalog appears to be a useful source of gear, advice, and random
drivel.

My initial setup will be the Petzl ascenders, Yates sewn aiders, three fifis
(one on a sling off my harness, one on top of each aider), a small barrage of
hookmongery, the standard array of nuts and SLCD's, and two six foot lengths
of 6mm accessory cord.  The cords attach the tops of the aiders to my harness,
so I can drop them with impunity.  The hooks will initially be tied directly
to the tops of the aiders except when I have only one of a given type. 
Three locking biners per harness is not excessive.  The whole system is
modelled after one which floated me effortlessly up a short C2 a few weeks
ago, so I am fairly confident that it will get me off to a decent start.
Revisions will be necessary, of course -- speedy aid climbing can be an
elusive art form.  All this advice is just a starting point for the aspiring
wall hero/ine, and won't get you or I off the ground if we don't have the
requisite desire for this most cerebral of activities.

My aiding plans were postponed on account of illness and an early mushroom
picking season this weekend, but I'll get to try out my new toys shortly.
The actual responses of the fine citizens who sent me info are as follows,
with names abbreviated to protect the innocent.
***************************************************************************
SS:
I recommend the Petzl ascenders (may not be the same thing as the Petzl
expd ascender). I have a pair and really like the angled handle with 
the anatomical grip. They are really smooth running, too. More comfortable
and easier to use than Jumars. Dunno about the Clog.

Some Pre-sewn aiders offer the advantage of a stiffer foot loop that will
stay open to accommodate stepping up. The last thing that you need is for
the footloop on your aiders to be collapsed so that you have to work
to get your foot into it. 

During aid climbing, you will repeat the same motions dozens of times. Lost
time at each placement due to unwieldy aiders can add up to significant time
loss.
***************************************************************************
CC:
I can't answer the ascender question, as I'm not familiar with those
models.  One difference I've found is that some models are easier to
detach from the rope than others, which is nice.

I've always sewn my own aiders.  I could measure them and give you the
numbers if you want.  A sewing machine (mom's?) w/ bar tacking (zigzag)
is required.  Sewing is better than tieing because the steps will be
exactly opposite each other, and the top knot is less bulky.  But sewing
takes time/work.
***************************************************************************
AS:
I own a pair of the Clog ascenders and have been very pleased with them.
They can be a bit "sharp" on the bare hands as any ascender is.  Half 
gloves like the leather ones for bicycling really help.  Also the handle
is big enough to handle a gloved hand.  I have used mine in Alaska several
times without any problems.  I don't know much about the Petzl but 
they would be my choice over Jumars or CMI ascenders.

As for aiders, I made some that are swen with a knot at the top (the
knot gives you something to hang on to.  Fifi hokks are great at the end
of your aiders so when you "go free" you do not have to unhook them from
the pro.

Get a chest harness, as it makes jugging more comfortable. Knee pads are
also helpful and is a double sided gear rack.
***************************************************************************
BW:
Get the Petzl ascenders!  They are so comfortable.  But really just try them
out in the store and see which if more comfortable for you.  I would recommend
the presewn aiders if you have the money.  I have used both and find the
presewn ones with the foot stiffener to be really nice.  Get the one inch
aiders as they are less bulky, although less comfortable, than the 2 inch
aiders.  A fifi is required!  Get one of the new Black Diamond tripod hooks.
It gives you three stable hooks in one!  You probably won't need this until
you start doing hairy aid. 
***************************************************************************
MT:
so you want to be a big wall fool.

quick tips from a obscure rock fool

 small steel nuts #2 -#5 are big wally's dream they fit old
   pin scars like a dream and are small and light, try 2 of ea.

 sew your own aiders, the knots hurt like a bitch, use 2" flat
   can't rember the length needed, sorry

 ever try hooking before? use two sets of aiders and gloves
   get the fish gear catalogue good tips in there

 i use one petzl and one jumar ascender, the jumar is always the 
   lowest of the two. good for passinf pro as the jumar is  
   more difficult to get off the rope and less likely to
   accidently come off

 comfortable shoes, i use light weight trail boots resoled 
  w/ 5.10 rubber. stiff sole needed for standing in slings
***************************************************************************
SR:
I strongly recommend the Petzl ascenders. They are very strong, I've
never heard of one breaking, and you can use them with mittens.  I
have never heard any reports on the Clogs, so they may also be very
good.  Stay away from tied aiders, they are a pain.  Home-sewn are
fine, but keep in mind that on most walls you will run out (err..is
that runout?) of gear, including slings, and your aiders may end up
being part of the belay. How well do you sew?  5 step aiders are fine.
I've used 6, but hey, I'm only 5'8" and 6 is just too long.  For a
beginnning hook selection, try one Fish, one Petzl, and two talons.
The talons are SUPER stable.  I recommend the Petzl over the
Black Diamond (Chounard Cliffhanger) because the Petzl has a ribbed 
back that makes it flex less. Hook flex is Very Scary.  Instead of
fifi's have you considered an adjustable daisy?  I like mine....

Good luck, don't forget to buy a few leepers.
*********************************************************************
DD:
I've heard nothing but good things about the Petxl Expd. I've used
hand sewn aiders for about 15 years and found that the pre-sewn ones
seem to work a little bit better...:-). I've found the Leeper camhooks
to be a bit funky...get at least 2 of each kind of skyhooks to be
sure, if you have the $$$.
*********************************************************************
BS:
I havn't done a great deal of aid as such, but have had occasion to use
jumars a fair bit, caving, route cleaning etc. I like the clog exped ascenders
more than any others I've used. A good friend who has done a few walls etc
likes the Petzls. He claims that it is harder for the rope to work out
in the event of a fall - I havn't looked at the designs that thoroughly
so dont really know - I think he just likes the sexy colors! One other
climber loves the little gold colored things (dont remember whatthehell
they're called) as they cannot come off the rope - however, they are a 
real pain on real climbs as it's almost impossible to pass gear/overhangs
with them. Go with real aiders, I made my own and they are not too
great to stand in for too long. Matt (with wall exp) told me to go with 
the 2" wide ones, seems a bit excessive but he loves his.

Eric Hirst
eric@milton.u.washington.edu