HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Subject: Re: M1, M4, M5, M6 & M25 - How long are they? 
Distribution: world
Organization: Kells Consultancy
Reply-To: geoffl@kells.demon.co.uk
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 07:27:20 +0000

>Brian> Could anyone in the UK tell me how long the M1, M4, M5 and M6 are?
>Brian> I know where they originate and end, but my best guesses are the 
>Brian> following:
>
>Brian>  M1 (Brent Cross,GL-Leeds,N Yorks): 177 miles
>Brian>  M4 (Chiswick,GL-Camarthen, Gwent): 193 miles
>Brian>  M5 (Walsall, W Mids-Exeter, Dev): 148 miles
>Brian>  M6 (Rugby, Warw-Gretna Green, Cumbs): 233 miles
>
>Brian> Also, how long is the London Orbital Motorway (M25)?  My best guess is 
>Brian> about 72 miles from Dartford (Junction 1) to Junction 31.
>
>What a bizarre question! Is this for a trivia quiz or what ;-) ? The
>best source of reference would be a softback road atlas (costing about
>a fiver, and updated fairly regularly) which gives a better overall
>view of the British road network, and geography.

On the off-chance that five pound UK road atlases are hard to come by in
the US:-

M1: 196 miles;
M4: 198 miles;
M5: 164 miles;
M6: 236 miles (to Carlisle);

The M25 is about 134 miles all the way round!

A bit of trivia: The M25 motorway police, as part of their training,
have to do a speed trial around the entire M25 except for the tunnel
in a hour or less.

-- 
      Geoff Landergan                         geoffl@kells.demon.co.uk
      Mitcham, Surrey, UK
      +44 81 646 2605
From: cwilson@gssec.bt.co.uk (Colin Wilson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Philips (was Re: British phones in France)
Date: 25 Jan 93 10:12:21 GMT
Organization: BT

In article <1993Jan22.035900.6407@philmtl.philips.ca>, ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes:
|> In refd article, ambidge@ecf.toronto.edu (Chris Ambidge) writes:
|> > dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones) writes:
|> >>Ray Dunn (ray@philmtl.philips.ca) wrote:
|> >>> [No, although I connect through a Philips site, I don't work for Philips.
|> >>> Like thousands of others though, I _used_ to work for Philips.  After seven
|> >>> months on the brew, I recently started working again]
|> >>
|> >>I think you mean 'the buroo', Glaswegian (and Geordie) for 'the dole'.  
|> >>Seven months on brew would tend to reduce your chances of ever working 
|> >>again.... 
|> 
|> Hey, you describe it how you like, _I_ know what I was doing for seven
|> months!!!
|> 
|> (Let's not argue about the spelling of dialect words)

I don't understand this. All forms of language are dialect, and all words are
dialect words.

********************************************************************************
*  Colin Wilson,                           E-mail:  cwilson@gssec.bt.co.uk     *
*  Glasgow Engineering Centre,             POTS:    (041) 220 5340             *
*  British Telecommunications plc.                  (+ 44 41) 220 5340         *
*  7 Caledon Street,                                                           *
*  Glesca / Glaschu G12 9BY,             Scotland a Twa-Leidit Fowkrick        *
*  Scotland / Alba.                      Biodh Alba 'na Poblachd Dha-Chananach *
********************************************************************************
From: cstadgs@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr R J Tinsley)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: seperate hot and cold water taps in th
Date: 26 Jan 1993 12:56:39 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
NNTP-Posting-Host: lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk

In article <rdavis.728009672@connie.de.convex.com> rdavis@convex.com
(Ray Davis) writes:
>Well that makes no sense.  If the taps are the problem, what good will
>it do to separate them?  Now you have two lead bleeders bleeding into
>your still standing tap contained water.

Sure, you do now have two contaminated supplies, but if the hot tap (which I
assume picks up more lead because of the heat) is used only for bathing and
washing up, and the cold for drinking and cooking, then you will ingest far
less lead.

-Bob
From: smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: M1, M4, M5, M6 & M25 - How long are they?
Date: 25 Jan 1993 11:05:47 GMT
Organization: SunConnect
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.france.sun.com

In article <727946840snz@kells.demon.co.uk>, geoffl@kells.demon.co.uk (Geoff Landergan) writes:

> The M25 is about 134 miles all the way round!
> 
> A bit of trivia: The M25 motorway police, as part of their training,
> have to do a speed trial around the entire M25 except for the tunnel
> in a hour or less.

Are you sure? I find that hard to believe, it would be incredibly stupid
to require someone to drive at twice the speedlimit for an hour, on a
road that in places is carrying twice its intended amount of traffic. Even
with blue lights & siren going.

Or are they allowed to do it in the helicopter?

Steve


-- 
Steve McKinty
SUN Microsystems ICNC
38240 Meylan, France
email: smckinty@france.sun.com	   BIX: smckinty
From: sizex@bnr.co.uk (Eric Barber)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: VNS: Thu 21-Jan-1993
Date: 21 Jan 93 12:44:36 GMT
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, London Road, Harlow, England.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.199.202.49

In article <1993Jan21.101239.25429@rdg.dec.com> evansg@uproar.enet.dec.com (Gwyn Evans) writes:
 >    The head of the WHO (The World Health Organisation) has been
 >    re-appointed. He is a Japanese and his re-appointment had been resisted
 >    by some countries saying that he could not speak English and French well
 >    enough.
being incompetent had absolutely nothing to do with it, right?
Eric
   _    "just a Texan a long way from home"
 _| ~-. Eric Barber, BNR Europe Limited, London Road, Harlow, England CM17 9NA
 \, *_} AT&T/BT/etc. +44 279 403527/429531 x 3527, ESN (NT/BNR) 6 742 3527
   \(   DISCLAIMER:  Working at, not speaking for, BNR  | Eric.Barber@bnr.co.uk
From: ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Philips (was Re: British phones in France)
Date: 22 Jan 93 03:59:00 GMT
Organization: Not Philips.

In refd article, ambidge@ecf.toronto.edu (Chris Ambidge) writes:
> dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones) writes:
>>Ray Dunn (ray@philmtl.philips.ca) wrote:
>>> [No, although I connect through a Philips site, I don't work for Philips.
>>> Like thousands of others though, I _used_ to work for Philips.  After seven
>>> months on the brew, I recently started working again]
>>
>>I think you mean 'the buroo', Glaswegian (and Geordie) for 'the dole'.  
>>Seven months on brew would tend to reduce your chances of ever working 
>>again.... 

Hey, you describe it how you like, _I_ know what I was doing for seven
months!!!

(Let's not argue about the spelling of dialect words)

>I'd go along with that -- but Ray, you're in Canada, so you were on POGEY!

Haven't heard that one, doesn't seem to be used here in darkest Quebec, if
it means getting UI, then they didn't give me any!

>[congratulations on being gainfully  employed again, too]

Thanks, actually I enjoyed being a house-husband, but couldn't afford it
any longer unfortunately.
-- 
Ray Dunn at home        |  Beaconsfield, Quebec  |  Phone: (514) 630 3749
ray@philmtl.philips.ca  |  ray@cam.org           |  uunet!sobeco!philmtl!ray
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
Subject: Re: Northen Ireland again (was Re: Britain and HK)
Reply-To: gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 13:18:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.123713.12656@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
>In article <1993Jan20.145711.22462@infodev.cam.ac.uk> gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk writes:
>>Indeed it does.  However it's worth pointing out that legislation
>>concerning Northern Ireland is not debated on the floor of the House
>>of Commons, but is instead implemented by an extension of the Royal
>>Prerogative known as Orders in Council.  The British political parties
>>don't stand for election in the Province (well, the Conservatives do
>>now, but the British Conservatives seem to be keeping the NI
>>Conservatives at arm's length); however, the Northern Ireland Office
>>ministers (the "government" of Northern Ireland) come from the
>>party that wins a majority in the UK.  (This is also true for
>>Scotland and Wales, but at least there all the UK parties contest
>>the seats.)

[discussion of why British political parties don't contest NI seats deleted]

>The current setup in NI may be unfair, but it seems to be the
>only one that gets grudging acceptance from everyone. The
>Unionists accept it because it does mean they are a part of the
>UK, the Nationalists see it as better than being run by a
@
`>Unionist-dominated devolved government.
>
>Yes, it would be nice if they'd all act sensible and vote for
>the UK parties. Or all act sensible and agree to be part of the
>Republic. Or all act senisble and at least agree to something.
>But don't let them put the blame on anything but themselves for
>the hole they've dug themselves into.

The thread started because someone referred to NI as a "colony", and
someone else replied that it wasn't because it sent MPs to
Westminster.  What I was trying to point out is that those MPs in
effect have no power, since NI legislation isn't debated in the usual
democratic fashion, and the Northern Ireland Office is always
controlled by a party with no MPs in NI.  It may indeed be the best
set-up under present circumstances, but I can't see how it can be
considered democratic by any stretch of the imagination.

--
Guy Barry, University of Cambridge | Phone: +44 (0)223 334757 
Computer Laboratory                | Fax: +44 (0)223 334678
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street  | JANET: Guy.Barry@uk.ac.cam.cl 
Cambridge CB2 3QG, England, UK     | Internet: Guy.Barry@cl.cam.ac.uk 
From: arf@otter.hpl.hp.com (Andrew Farmer)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:50:17 GMT
Subject: Re: Britain should be a federatin
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british


In soc.culture.british, tgg@otter.hpl.hp.com (Tom Gardner) writes:

> arf: PLEASE don't respond to Yadalulu: I quite enjoy his brand of nonsense in 
> the same way that I enjoy the goons, and I wouldn't want to see him
> disappear. 

	But Tom.....the Goons weren't funny. "Look at the king!
 Look at the king!"

	arf 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Subject: Re: The weather (request for information)
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 12:58:10 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.095321.5959@ausom.oz.au> rns@ausom.oz.au (Ross Sheehy) writes:
>Have their been any significant snowfalls this season
>in the Norfolk region? If so, would they have been
>sufficient to snow a family inside their house or village?
>
No. Scotland has had quite a bit of snow, but snow in England
is increasingly becoming a rarity. There has been none at all
in London this winter.

Matthew Huntbach
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
Subject: Re: Northern Ireland again (was Re: Britain and HK)
Reply-To: gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:15:51 GMT

In article <1jm98hINNpas@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC) writes:

>The two big hurdles faced by the tories in NI are:
>a) People in NI invariable vote on party lines, irrespective of the
>   candidate or the issue (or rather the Unionist/Nationalist issue
>   overshadows everything else, even in local elections). That doesn't
>   make for sensibly-chosen representatives.
>
>b) In constituencies where the Unionist/Nationalist votes are not too
>   widely different people won't vote for a new party in case it lets
>   the 'other side' in.
>
>(b) is the main reson the Conservatives only do well in places like
> North Down, where the unionist majority is so large that the Nationalist
> parties don't bother to put up candidates.

Of course, the sensible solution to this would be to bring in PR for
Westminster elections in NI (like all other elections).  Presumably
no Government has so far done this because it would make the case
for PR throughout the rest of the UK virtually unanswerable.

--
Guy Barry, University of Cambridge | Phone: +44 (0)223 334757 
Computer Laboratory                | Fax: +44 (0)223 334678
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street  | JANET: Guy.Barry@uk.ac.cam.cl 
Cambridge CB2 3QG, England, UK     | Internet: Guy.Barry@cl.cam.ac.uk
From: mckeonj@ul.ie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Really, how interesting
Date: 19 Jan 93 10:37:14 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland

The use of inflected "Really" is as nothing, compared
to the use of "Really, how interesting."
Now, there's power for you!
-- 
"Ich am of Irlonde" (medieval fragment used by Yeats)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
John McKeon, Material Science Dept. University of Limerick, Ireland
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Subject: Re: The Poll Tax
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 11:23:17 GMT

In article <C17LFq.50G@news2.cis.umn.edu> alla0008@student.tc.umn.edu (Graham Allan) writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.092158.16400@osf.org> david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George) writes:
>>
>>I am definitely against local income tax, which I believe will leave a load
>>of rich tossers living in big houses not paying a bean, or at least their
>>fair share because their crafty accountants have salted all their cash away
>>somewhere.
>
>You can use this objection against normal income tax as well. Do you think
>it should be replaced by something else?

Personally, yes. I would like to see tax on income that people
have actually worked for reduced, and replaced by tax on
unearnt income and wealth. I would say the only reason that
income tax is generally accepted is that people have got used
to it. I don't see why someone who is immensely wealthy should
be tax free just because he or she isn't working so isn't
earning an income.

Matthew Huntbach
From: smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Northen Ireland again (was Re: Britain and HK)
Date: 21 Jan 1993 13:42:41 GMT
Organization: SunConnect
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.france.sun.com

In article <1993Jan21.123713.12656@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
> In article <1993Jan20.145711.22462@infodev.cam.ac.uk> gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk writes:
>
> There is no sign that the people of NI would vote for the
> British political parties if they did stand. Northern Ireland
> used to have its own Labour Party (separate from the GB Labour
> Party), and its own Liberal Party (constitutionally as much
> part of the UK Liberal Party as the Scottish and Welsh
> Liberals). Both dwindled away because no-one voted for them,
> preferring to go for the sectarian parties.
> 

Didn't Lawrence Kennedy get 15,000 votes or so in the general election?
Had the Conservatives still been at their popularity peak of the immediate
post-Falklands period he would have stood a good chance of taking the seat.
Jim Kilfedder holds that seat strongly on his own popularity, when he
retires (which can't be too far off) it has a fair chance of becoming
NI's first Conservative seat at Westminster.

The Conservatives have had some success in local elections too, including
sharing the 'mayorship' of one council.

The two big hurdles faced by the tories in NI are:
a) People in NI invariable vote on party lines, irrespective of the
   candidate or the issue (or rather the Unionist/Nationalist issue
   overshadows everything else, even in local elections). That doesn't
   make for sensibly-chosen representatives.

b) In constituencies where the Unionist/Nationalist votes are not too
   widely different people won't vote for a new party in case it lets
   the 'other side' in.

(b) is the main reson the Conservatives only do well in places like
 North Down, where the unionist majority is so large that the Nationalist
 parties don't bother to put up candidates.



> The Lib-Dems are closely allied to the NI Alliance Party these
> days, almost to the point where it could be regarded as the NI
> equivalent of the Lib-Dems, but no-one much votes for them
> either.

Alliance does quite well in local elections, but in general elections
the old fear of the 'other side' winning hits them as hard as it does
the LibDems on the mainland.

Steve

-- 
Steve McKinty
SUN Microsystems ICNC
38240 Meylan, France
email: smckinty@france.sun.com	   BIX: smckinty
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Subject: Re: Back from the UK 
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 01:53:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.131014.1@vxdesy.desy.de> godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:
>In article <727758965snz@rundart.demon.co.uk>, gt@rundart.demon.co.uk (Giles Todd) writes:
>> In article <1993Jan22.030456.31470@watson.ibm.com> yozzo@watson.ibm.com writes:
>> 
>>>If, indeed, it is not a question, then would it not be simpler to merely
>>>say "hello"?
>>>(Forgive me, if "hello" and "hi" are uniquely American idiosyncrasies. :-))
>> 
>> No.  "How do you do?", "How do you do?" is an introduction protocol
>> understood by nearly everyone in the UK.  It is otherwise devoid of
>> meaning.
>> 
>> The problem is that "Have a nice day" rose apparently from nowhere some
>> years ago.  Its very unfamiliarity caused the recipients to assign some
>> significance to it.  Unfortunately, any such significance was
>> contradicted by the manifest insincerity of those uttering the phrase. 
>> The customer relations consultants who coined it appear to have missed
>> this point.
>> 
>> Giles.
>
>My personal favourite is another insincere phrase, used by the waitress
>when you leave certain restaurants in California, "Bye, missing you already!"
>

Utter crap.  The only times I've ever heard this phrase were in
England.  It was represented to us as an Americanism, but it
is about as American as "American Hard Gums".

Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: arpepper@math.uwaterloo.ca (Adrian Pepper)
Subject: Re: Postperson Pat. Was Re: Britain and HK
Organization: University of Waterloo Math Faculty Computing Facility, Ontario.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:34:35 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.215359.24513@netcom.com> sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:
>David McSavaney writes:
>>
>>This caused me to pause and wonder - are UK kiddies still watching
>>"Postman Pat"? Surely it is time to be a little more sensitive and
>>call it "Postperson Pat"? Hmmm - would Saturday Night Live possibly
>>be interested in the concept...
>>
>>Dave McSavaney
>>                
>>
>
>Now *here's* an interesting subject.  My daughter and nephews all
>love Postman Pat.  The name can't be changed, nothing else will
>scan.  "Postal Carrier Pat and his black & white cat.."  nah.
>'Postperson' is an abomination, of course.

When I was about five years old, living in Aldershot, Hants., I
remember one day I happened to see that a woman was delivering our
post.  I was somewhat surprised by this, and said that she must be a
"postlady".

"No", explained my father, "She is a postman.  She may be a female
postman, but she is a postman."

Since that time, I have always thought that this was the simplest
solution.

Adrian Pepper.
arpepper@math.uwaterloo.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: pi101@cus.cam.ac.uk (P.M. Inman)
Subject: Re: seperate hot and cold water taps in the UK
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 10:02:39 GMT

In article <C19yuJ.30t@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>,
 "Nadine Smith" <nmsmith@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu> writes:
|> 
|> 	Could someone please tell a confused American (no jokes, please!)
|> 	why the hot and cold water taps are seperate in the UK?
|> 	And why if there is only one faucet is the hot and cold
|> 	water kept seperate until it comes out of the tap? 
|> 				Thanks,
|> 					Nadine Smith
|> 					nmsmith@bio.indiana.edu


The whole subject of the apparent eccentricity of British domestic plumbing
arrengements (whether or where mixer taps are allowed, why British showers are so
feeble, the need for cold water tanks in the loft) derives from an almost
paranoid concern to protect the purity of the public water supply from
back-infection from the domestic site.  The cold water tank, fed from the
incoming main via a ball-valve, effectively isolates the rest of the house, i.e.
downstream from the cold water tank, from the main.  This means that the maximum
water pressure available for showers is the height of the cold tank above the
shower room, i.e. not much.  Also, as other contributors have remarked, the
existence of a cold tank in a messy loft means that the water from it can become
re-infected.  Therefore water for drinking has to come straight from the
in-coming public supply and not via the cold tank in the loft.  That's why the
cold water pressure on the kitchen tap is much higher than on any other tap.  I
presume (though do not know for sure) that mixer taps are permitted in kitchens,
i.e. mixing pure cold water with possibly contamined domestic hot water, is
because the cold water pressure is bound to be higher than that of the hot water;
so, if there is any movement between pipes in the mixing device, it will be from
cold to hot and not (the ultimate horror) from hot to cold.

I know this because, having experienced the delights of showers in the USA, I
wanted to achieve the same effect in England by pressurising the hot-water
system.  I was told this was permissible only if the cold-water system was
pressurised too, so that in any circumstance where the two flows might come into
contact, the cold would win (that was cold coming from a cold-water tank!).

Class warriors may like the alleged reason for all this:  the demise of Prince
Albert by infection from a contaminated public water supply, after which the
water-supply regulations were tightened up to the extent that we can now wash our
cars (though not with hoses of course) with pure drinking water, or at any rate,
as pure as we're going to get.
-- 
Philip Inman.............................e-mail: pi101@cus.cam.ac.uk
Open Systems Development Programme........JANET: pi101@uk.ac.cam.cus
Cambridge University Computer Laboratory....tel: [+44 (int); 0 (UK)] 223-335442
Cambridge, England CB2 3QG..................fax: [+44 (int); 0 (UK)] 223-334679
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: ahall@library1.library.carleton.ca (Alison Hall)
Subject: Re: guide dogs
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:36:16 GMT

The RNIB is in Peterborough.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:19147 alt.usage.english:10895
From: bocmunro@bnr.co.uk (Bruce Munro)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Back from the UK
Date: 21 Jan 93 14:32:08 GMT
Organization: BNR Europe, New Southgate, London.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bnsgs179.bnr.co.uk

In article <1993Jan20.171640.9681@netcom.com> sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:
>
>Suddenly it feels decadent, but nearly all modern homes in the US
>have more than one room containing a toilet.  My parents live in
>a townhouse (20 yrs old) in Cupertino which has 3 toilets in it.  Two 
>upstairs and one down.  

I guess it's probably a bit unusual but my parents' house in Brighton
also has three toilets. One downstairs, one in the bathroom and another
in the shower room. It's a reasonable size semi-detached house, nothing
out of the ordinary.

You soon learn the benefits of multiple toilets or having separate
bathroom/toilet when living in a shared house with four or five others.
Especially when you return after a couple of swift halves [sic.] down
the boozer, bursting for a pee, only to find some inconsiderate sod
happily ensconced in a warm tub for the duration!

-- 
Bruce Munro.  <B.O.C.Munro@tcom.stc.co.uk> (Note new address)
BNR Europe Ltd, Oakleigh Rd South, London N11 1HB. 
Phone : +44 81 945 2174 or +44 81 945 4000 x2174
"There are no strangers, only friends we don't recognise" - Hank Wangford
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british