HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Spot the flaw
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:58:18 GMT
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article <1992Jul29.133901.3286@ms.uky.edu> fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeff Davis) writes:
>Commonality w/ blacks in this country? Their existence as an
>easily identifiable sub-class, perhaps. I don't know. Cultural
>bias may not be a component of the test but of the society in
>general. 


Which is all I've been arguing about, cultural bias in society is in
part repsonsible for blacks making less money than whites, living in
poorer neighborhoods than whites, and attending worse schools than
whites. Its not the standardized tests that are biased, its everything
that prepares people for the tests(ie. quality of education, and 
availablity of education). So why blame the tests?

There's an obvious reason why centers shoot worse than guards, centers
spend hours each day working on dropsteps, power steps, boxing out
and other low post moves, while guards spend the same time working on
perimeter skills which involve shooting farther than 5 feet from the
basket. Therefore they shoot better from the foul line because of the 
way they practice(or prepare for the game).

More blacks live in poverty(percentage wise) than whites in America
so it is to be expected that they won't score as well on a test that
quite simply tests your ability to take such a test. Richer schools
prepare you better for such a test, just as playing guard prepares
you better to shoot freethrows.

>Jeff Davis <davis@keats.ca.uky.edu> Repeat after me:




Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
"Mellow is the man, who knows what he's been missing
many, many men can't see the open road".
                                    Over the hills and far away- Led Zeppelin  
******************************************************************************




Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: matthew@pram.cs.ucla.edu (Matthew Merzbacher)
Subject: Re: Info on Anthony Peeler???
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Distribution: usa
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:21:23 GMT

scott@mccall.com (Scott D. Davis) writes:

[ Anthony Peeler can... ]
>shoot inside and outside ...  He did have problems off the bball court.

Aren't these things related?

Seriously, what's the scoop on Peeler's criminal spree?  I know that one
of the charges was dropped (the second one?), but I assume he's still
at least waist deep in trouble.  What's his schedule for
arraignment/trial/etc.?
--

Matthew Merzbacher	ARPA:	matthew@CS.UCLA.EDU
Moo - Moo Moo  		UUCP:	...!{uunet|rutgers|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!matthew
               		This time, *with* the oys
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 07:37:15 EDT
From: <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: BAD News for Arkansas and UMass fans

   Both of the Baltimore Dunbar High School superstars failed to score 700
on the SAT's and will not be eligible to play next season.  Michael Lloyd,
formerly headed for Arkansas, will probably enroll at San Jacinto Junior
college in Texas.  Who knows if he will ever make it to Arkansas.  Donta
Bright will be heading to UMass and will sit out this season.  He said that
he made his decision and will live with the consequences.
From: doel@ausable.crd.ge.com (Michael Doel)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Prop 48...
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:38:23 GMT
Reply-To: doel@crd.ge.com
Organization: GE Research & Development

In article <1992Jul28.90856.26106@ms.uky.edu>, fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeff Davis) writes:
> hillyard@msc.cornell.edu writes:
> >Jeff Davis writes:
> >> 
> >> Yes there is a correlation between SAT scores and the aptitude to
> >> do college work. There is also a correlation between being a doctor
> >> and having big feet (a strong positive correlation, BTW). This just
> >> points out the ability to use correlations to poorly define policy.
> >
> >Let me guess.  The sample included men, women, and children; and since
> >most doctors are full grown men a good correlation was gotten between
> >foot size and being a doctor.
> >
> >I would hope that studies on the SAT are a bit better done.
> >
> The correlation between big feet and getting the permission to coin 
> money...I mean being a doctor...can be traced to the fact that
> all other things being equal, medical schools admit taller men
> over shorter men. 
> 
> The explanations given for Prop 48, although couched in higher
> toned language than that, don't strike me as much better than
> "taller men make better doctors."


The difference is that the SAT tries to measure skills (mathematics,
reading comprehension, etc) which will actually be used in college
whereas the foot is not used in medical school or in the medical
profession (obviating the need to measure it).

It seems that your basic argument is that "correlation does not
imply causation."  While true, there are certain cases where we can
be fairly certain that correlating factors are more important than
in other cases.  Thus, someone who demonstrates a strong ability to
comprehend what they read and accurately solve basic mathematical
problems will in all likelihood perform well in college.  This is
not surprising since these are some of the skills required to complete
college work.  The fact that there is only a weak correlation between
SAT scores and college performance (as reported in other posts) only
means that the SAT does not do a good job of measuring those skills and
does not measure other traits which help a person to do well in
college (a strong work ethic for instance).

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Doel				<doel@crd.ge.com>
P.O. Box 8
Schenectady, NY 12301			(518) 387-6203

"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat
 and wrong." - H.L. Mencken
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: alan@sierra.unr.edu (Alan McKay)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Where are they/were they
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:14:39 GMT
Reply-To: alan@wrc.unr.edu (Alan McKay)
Organization: Desert Research Institute, University of Nevada

In article <1992Jul26.210004.26474@athena.cs.uga.edu> milleman@athena.cs.uga.edu (Richard Milleman) writes:

>Mel Turpin was Kentucky's other Twin Tower next to Sam Bowie. Bowie now plays 
>with New Jersey, but what about Turpin.


Mel was last seen working as a masa grinder at Roosevelt's Tamale Parlor
in San Francisco's Mission District.  

...Al
w.a. mckay
desert research institute
reno, nevada

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205)
Subject: Re: BAD News for Arkansas and UMass fans
Organization: Bell Northern Research Inc.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 12:04:51 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.225043.1687@athena.cs.uga.edu> milleman@athena.cs.uga.edu (Richard Milleman) writes:
>In article <92204.073715KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>>
>>   Both of the Baltimore Dunbar High School superstars failed to score 700
>>on the SAT's and will not be eligible to play next season.  Michael Lloyd,
>>formerly headed for Arkansas, will probably enroll at San Jacinto Junior
>>college in Texas.  Who knows if he will ever make it to Arkansas.  Donta
>>Bright will be heading to UMass and will sit out this season.  He said that
>>he made his decision and will live with the consequences.
>
>Maybe it's just me, but isn't UMass a good school? Could anybody who couldn't 
>get a 700 on the SAT actually make it (academically) at a school of UMass's 
>quality or is UMass trying to compete and forget that it is an institution of 
>higher learning? I can understand a SAT/ACT failure to go to Arkansas and 
>pass all of his classes (probably with a 4.0), but I thought higher of UMass, 
>until now.
>                                                        Rick Milleman

If you are questioning UMass' considering of a student who fails to score 700,
then I'll argue that a *lot* of schools consider picking up marginal student/
athletes.  For example, it is my understanding that UNC is willing to have
one borderline student/athlete on the team.  I think J.R. Reid was one 
example (but this brings to mind a quote from Dean Smith that J.R. Reid and
Scott Williams had a higher combined SAT than Christian Laettner and Danny
Ferry), and I know they wanted Kenny Williams (didn't make 700, played juco
for one year, and then went hardship (?)) and later Larry Smith (also didn't 
make a 700 out of school -- Larry finally did and will be playing for UNC 
this year).

It's probably true of most bball schools.

-- 
Andrew W. Markham (markham@bnr.ca)                    Bulls in 93!!!!!!!!
Bell Northern Research, Inc.
	"No comment." - Michael Jordan's response to the press after being 
                    selected to the All-Interview team.
From: milleman@athena.cs.uga.edu (Richard Milleman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: BAD News for Arkansas and UMass fans
Date: 25 Jul 92 16:35:41 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <23JUL199214152363@pierre.mit.edu> kettler@pierre.mit.edu (KETTLER, THOMAS R.) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.225043.1687@athena.cs.uga.edu>, milleman@athena.cs.uga.edu (Richard Millema writes...
>>In article <92204.073715KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>>>
>>>   Both of the Baltimore Dunbar High School superstars failed to score 700
>>>on the SAT's and will not be eligible to play next season.  Michael Lloyd,
>>>formerly headed for Arkansas, will probably enroll at San Jacinto Junior
>>>college in Texas.  Who knows if he will ever make it to Arkansas.  Donta
>>>Bright will be heading to UMass and will sit out this season.  He said that
>>>he made his decision and will live with the consequences.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>Maybe it's just me, but isn't UMass a good school?Could anybody who couldn't get
>>a 700 on the SAT actually make it (academically) at a school of UMass's quality
>>or is UMass trying to compete and forget that it is an institution of higher
>>learning? I can understand a SAT/ACT failure to go to Arkansas and pass all of
>>his classes (probably with a 4.0), but I thought higher of UMass, until now.
>> 
>>                                                        Rick Milleman
>
>Well, don't forget your own college of Georgia. After all, the big lawsuit 
>about the woman English professor who taught a remedial English course was told 
>to change some football players grades for failing to incomplete to keep the 
>players eligible occured at U. of Georgia. After all, what's good for the goose 
>is good for the gander.


Her name is Jan Kemp and she is considered the Anti-Christ in Georgia!!


>					Sincerely yours,
>
>					Thomas R. Kettler "Big Ten Fanatic"

I didn't mean to start a huge flame, I was merely pointing out that two guys
from the same high school could not make the grade (no pun intended). I know 
very little about UMass, but I thought that it was one of the better schools.
As for Arkansas, I consider it in the same league as Georgia: an average 
academic school, but a big time sports school with several exceptions for the
athletes. Every school does this, which doesn't make it right, just a fact. The
real villian here is Dunbar High.

					 Rick Milleman

     "We fear Change." - Garth Algar
C
From: wgr@rti.rti.org
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: BAD News for Arkansas and UMass fans
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:16:33 GMT
Organization: Research Triangle Institute, RTP, NC

In article <1992Jul22.225043.1687@athena.cs.uga.edu> milleman@athena.cs.uga.edu (Richard Milleman) writes:

>Maybe it's just me, but isn't UMass a good school?Could anybody who couldn't get
>a 700 on the SAT actually make it (academically) at a school of UMass's quality
>or is UMass trying to compete and forget that it is an institution of higher
>learning? I can understand a SAT/ACT failure to go to Arkansas and pass all of
>his classes (probably with a 4.0), but I thought higher of UMass, until now.

I don't know how highly regarded UMass is, but I'm sure it's not an elite,
nationally-recognized academic powerhouse like the University of Georgia.

You're paying way too much attention to SAT scores.  Plenty of people who
make marginal scores on standardized tests make excellent high school grades,
and go on to do very well in college.

If I'm not mistaken, Rumeal Robinson had to sit out a year because of Prop 48,
then ended up graduating with a pretty good GPA from Michigan.  Considering
how his NBA career is going, I'm sure he's glad he got his degree.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: jfw1@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (james.f.whitehead)
Subject: Re: Underhanded Freethrows (was Georgia Tech)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:58:25 GMT
Summary: accurate from 15' -- hmmm.

In article <1992Jul21.153518.8018@CS.ORST.EDU>, rpandey@CS.ORST.EDU (Rajeev Pandey) writes:
> In Article 16196 of rec.sport.basketball.college:
> trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu (R.CLOUGH) writes:
> 
> >Drew Barry	6-4		Frosh.	Off Guard	Could contribute
> 
> >off guard.  Drew Barry, Jon's brother, is ready to get some minutes after
> >he redshirted last year.  He's a better athlete than Jon, though not a better
> >player, at least right now.   He's also the only Barry son that shoots 
> >free throws underhanded like their dad did.
> 
>  Incorrect.
> 
>  Brent Barry, probably a starting guard this year at Oregon State, also
>  shoots his free throws underhanded. Brent is a 6'5" sophmore, and has the
>  talents to make a name for himself down the road.

OK. So far we have Scooter (Kansas), Jon and Drew (GT), and Brent (Oregon St.)
How many more little Barry stinkers are we gonna have to put up with?
Sounds like ol' Rick was accurate with more than just the basketball.

Jim Whitehead
"pc - NOT!"

> 
> 
> -- 
> Department of Computer Science    | Rajeev Pandey 
> Dearborn Hall 303                 |    Internet: rpandey@cs.orst.edu 
> Oregon State University           |    UUCP: hp-pcd!orstcs!rpandey
> Corvallis, OR  97331-3202  U.S.A. |    Phone:(503) 737-3273 Fax: (503) 737-3014


Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Villanova Stiffs (was Re: Montross/Duke Plot
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:36:05 GMT


Jim Whitehead writes:

>sbanerj@eos.ncsu.edu (Sanjeev Banerjia) writes:
>>
>[...]

>> Seems like this list of notable 'Nova players should include the venerable
>> John "The Bear" Pinone, in keeping with the spirit of the thread...

> Yes indeed, the original Dave Cowens wannabe. The guy who played college
> ball the way I play pickup ball, mostly with elbows and butt. The guy who
> once high-jumped 18".

> Major college ball is passing guys like this by. Pinone makes Mark Dowdell
> look like Michael Jordan (well, not quite). I guess these days Seton Hall
> and St. Johns sometimes have guys a little like Pinone - Jerry Walker,
> Billy Singleton - but nobody quite like the original.

Well, I can't really argue with Jim's point, but I don't agree with
Sanjeev that John Pinone belongs on the list of Villanova stiffs like
Greis, Maker and Everson.  Pinone may have been a banger -- but he was
an All America player who led his team to final 8 appearances during
his Junior and Senior years.

Greis was able to go to one final 8 -- but it was primarily because
he fouled out, allowing Mark Plansky to take over the games.  Villanova
needed a win over St. John's in the Big East tournament to get into
the NCAAs that year.  With three minutes left and about 10 points
behind, Greis fouled out.  Plansky forced a couple of turnovers, and
hit a couple of three-pointers, Villanova won the game.  Similar
things happened in the NCAAs in games against Illinois and Kentucky.
Unfortunately for Villanova fans, Greis stayed out of foul trouble in
the game against North Carolina.

As for Jim's comment about major colleges passing on Pinone types,
watch Boston College during the next three years.  If they manage
to come back we may see other colleges going for the big bruisers.

Mark
From: gharris@jade.tufts.edu (George W. Harris)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: UNC Academics/Jucos
Date: 24 Jul 92 01:49:36 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA
Originator: gharris@jade.tufts.edu

In article <4042@news.duke.edu> trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu writes:
>In article <9207231530.AA02832@walt.disney>, chill@walt.UUCP (Curtis Hill) writes:
>OK.  What UNC player was known as "The Blind Bomber"?
>
>Robert Clough, DUMC
>	DUKE FOOTBALL '92: "The horror, the horror!"

	George Glamack.  Ha!  Try again (of course, I'm a Duke grad, so I would
be expected to get tough questions).

--
"If you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce, they taste more like
prunes than rhubarb does."              -Groucho Marx 

gharris@jade.tufts.edu          George Harris, Tufts Univ. Dept. of Mathematics
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: foerster@zman.rtp.dg.com (Mike von Foerster)
Subject: NIKE game on TV
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 11:28:34 GMT
Reply-To: foerster@dg-rtp.dg.com
Organization: Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, NC

ESPN will televise the NIKE camp's title game next Tuesday, July 28 at 1:30PM.
Yes, that is Tuesday afternoon. There are a lot of top players who will be in this
game.  For those who don't know, most of these players will be HS seniors (a few
juniors thrown in) this year. NONE will be attending college this fall.

I hope they show the slam dunk competition. Jason Sutherland, a 6'1" guard
from Watertown, SD beat out Jerry Stackhouse from Kinston, NC in this one.
Sutherland has high jumped 7'1" and is the current SD state champion.

In the 3-pt shooting competition, 6'3" PG Danny Earl from Medford Lakes, NJ beat
out Chris Kingsbury, 6'5" 2G from Hamiltion, OH.

-- 

Michael von Foerster           Internet: foerster@dg-rtp.dg.com
DG/UX Core Development         UUCP:     {world}!mcnc!rti!dg-rtp!foerster
Data General Corporation
62 T.W. Alexander Drive
RTP, NC. 27709                 Phone:    919-248-6327
From: jfw1@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (james.f.whitehead)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Montross/Duke Plot
Date: 21 Jul 92 13:49:12 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Jul21.023420.25017@ncsu.edu>, sbanerj@eos.ncsu.edu (Sanjeev Banerjia) writes:
> 
[...]

> Seems like this list of notable 'Nova players should include the venerable
> John "The Bear" Pinone, in keeping with the spirit of the thread...
> 
> Sanjeev

Yes indeed, the original Dave Cowens wannabe. The guy who played college
ball the way I play pickup ball, mostly with elbows and butt. The guy who
once high-jumped 18".

Major college ball is passing guys like this by. Pinone makes Mark Dowdell
look like Michael Jordan (well, not quite). I guess these days Seton Hall
and St. Johns sometimes have guys a little like Pinone - Jerry Walker,
Billy Singleton - but nobody quite like the original.

And now Danny DeVito has moved on to greener pastures...

Jim Whitehead
"who's he"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: kennedy@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (Ralph Kennedy)
Subject: Re: Arizona 92-93 schedule (also ASU stuff)
Organization: Arizona State Univ, Tempe
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 20:22:09 GMT

gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:
> Arizona announced its 92-93 scgedule today. I'll post the entire
> thing in a few days if nobody beats me to it.

     Fat chance.

--Ralph Kennedy      {ames,gatech,husc6,rutgers}!ncar!noao!asuvax!kennedy
                        {allegra,decvax,ihnp4,oddjob}--^
                                          ^---------------The Wrong Choice
                             internet: kennedy@asuvax.asu.edu
From: rpandey@CS.ORST.EDU (Rajeev Pandey)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Underhanded Freethrows (was Georgia Tech)
Date: 21 Jul 92 15:35:18 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Oregon State University

In Article 16196 of rec.sport.basketball.college:
trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu (R.CLOUGH) writes:

>Drew Barry	6-4		Frosh.	Off Guard	Could contribute

>off guard.  Drew Barry, Jon's brother, is ready to get some minutes after
>he redshirted last year.  He's a better athlete than Jon, though not a better
>player, at least right now.   He's also the only Barry son that shoots 
>free throws underhanded like their dad did.

 Incorrect.

 Brent Barry, probably a starting guard this year at Oregon State, also
 shoots his free throws underhanded. Brent is a 6'5" sophmore, and has the
 talents to make a name for himself down the road.


-- 
Department of Computer Science    | Rajeev Pandey 
Dearborn Hall 303                 |    Internet: rpandey@cs.orst.edu 
Oregon State University           |    UUCP: hp-pcd!orstcs!rpandey
Corvallis, OR  97331-3202  U.S.A. |    Phone:(503) 737-3273 Fax: (503) 737-3014
From: creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re:  IU Recruiting - 1993
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:14:42 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1992Jul27.130817.9151@dg-rtp.dg.com> foerster@dg-rtp.dg.com writes:
>There have been some changes in the rest of the recruiting priorities
>since last spring however. Several kids that IU was looking at are no
>longer being looked at (or vice-versa). IU is not recruiting 
>Kiwane Gaddis, Randy Zachary, Kojak Fuller, or Damon Flint anymore.
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^

   Now what would Telly Savalas need with a brush anyway?

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University Hoosiers
1991 Copper Bowl champions
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jazzy J )
Subject: Re: Where are they/were they
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:02:30 GMT


	Melvin Cheatum didn't make the cut in the NBA, and I believe is 
	trying to make his mark in Europe.  That might be the route to go
	because teammate David Benoit did the same coming out of college,
	and now he starts for the Utah Jazz.

	As far as Turpin goes, he spent a journeyman career in the NBA
	with Cleveland, Washington, and Utah -- and basically ate his way
	out of the league.  Nickname -- "Dinner Bell Mel".  He went to 
	Spain to play, but failed there as well.  Mel Turpin is now working
	as a security guard in an Indiana prison.  Nice way to end a career,
	no?

	Colleges:  John Stockton -- Gonzaga
                   Karl Malone -- Louisiana Tech

	Jazzy J
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  "I am human and I need to be loved,            | Jazzy J                   |
|   just like everybody else does..." - The Smiths| jdt29225@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu | 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dxj@cci632.cci.com (Dennis Joyce)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: BAD News for Arkansas and UMass fans
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:09:06 GMT
Organization: [Computer Consoles, Inc., Rochester, NY

In article <1992Jul23.131633.1054@rti.rti.org> wgr@rti.rti.org writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.225043.1687@athena.cs.uga.edu> milleman@athena.cs.uga.edu (Richard Milleman) writes:
>
>>Maybe it's just me, but isn't UMass a good school?Could anybody who couldn't get
>>a 700 on the SAT actually make it (academically) at a school of UMass's quality
>>or is UMass trying to compete and forget that it is an institution of higher
>>learning? I can understand a SAT/ACT failure to go to Arkansas and pass all of
>>his classes (probably with a 4.0), but I thought higher of UMass, until now.

I believe that the SAT is somewhat bias against minorities and poor folk. That
is why the ACT was developed. Now I can't see how anyone can argue that the 
700 mark is too high or that having that mark is bad for the students (they
are students, remember?).

I also believe that ALL freshman should be red shirted. This would allow them 
to ease into college life and would reduce the pressure for them to perform.

						Dennis Joyce