HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mcyze@uwovax.uwo.ca
Subject: Re: QUESTION about Vitamin C
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:27:43 GMT


From <jll-260992140740@wplmacd-56.doc.ic.ac.uk>:
>I am currently taking 500mg a day of vit C.  I thought this would 
>be sufficient as being a smoker my body deletes vit C at an extremely fast
>rate. So, am I taking enough vit C to maintain good health and is it true
>that you cannot  "overdose" on vit C?

From Jane Brody's 'Nutrition Book', p164, under 'Risks of Megadoses (over
	1000 mg/day):

	Dependency on high doses, possible precipitating symptoms of
	scurvy when withdrawn (especially in infants if megadoses taken
	during pregnancy); kidney and bladder stones; diarrhea; urinary-
	tract irritation; increased tendency for blood to clot;
	breakdown of red blood cells in persons with certain common
	genetic disorders (such as glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase
	deficiency, common in blacks); may induce B12 deficiency.

She goes on to say, in referrence to heavy smokers, (p171),
"The vitamin C deficit caused by smoking can be made up by consuming an
8-ounce glass of orange juice each day - approximately 100 mg of vitamin C.

In view of the possible effects of high dose Vit C, I think I'll
stick to my 365mg/day in my multivitamin.

Mike.
------------------------------------
Mike Cyze                       University of Western Ontario
mcyze@uwovax.uwo.ca                  Dept of Geophysics
                                       London, Ontario
From: griffin@carson.u.washington.edu (Thomas Griffin)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Steroids
Date: 6 Oct 92 21:20:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Oct6.212032.724
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Oct5.225203.2666@cs.uwp.edu> evans@cs.uwp.edu (Randy Evans) writes:
>
>Hi did any one out there recieve an ad from Mass Machine?  They are a mail
>order steroid company.  Myself and two others friends got one, and as 
>far as we can tell there is no other connection accept we all like to work-
>out.  Has anyone delt with them?  I myself think its a scam or perhaps some
>type of government sting operation.  
>
This scam was already discussed at length in the weights mail list group.
Posters there thought that IRONMAN had sold its subscription list to this
fraudulent company. Does this make sense to you?


PS- If you'd like to subscribe to the weights list, send your e-mail
address to

weights-request@mickey.disney.com

-- 
Tom Griffin, University of Washington
Internet: griffin@u.washington.edu
>>>>>20 years of school and then they put ya on the day shift<<<<<
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: beng@dorsai.com (ben ng)
Subject: love handles
Organization: The Dorsai Embassy, New York's Computer Consulate. +1.718.729.5018
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 00:04:10 GMT

I used to be overweight, 180lbs. Now I'm a comfortable, fit 150lbs.
I'm exercising constantly, weights, push-ups, sit-ups, squats, etc.
Yet one thing eludes me. Yep, them evil love handles..left over from
my obese days..and still some bit of fat in the stomach area.
I need to know of an excersie that will help me lose this fat, the love
handles and something that will tighten the skin..other than surgury. :)
Because of my sit-ups, I can see the ribbling washboard but faintly.
Any ideas? Thanks All.

Ben Ng
beng@dorsaid.com
uupsi!dorsaidm!beng
From: raymond@harp.ecn.purdue.edu (Ray Kamin)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Power Burst Training System
Date: 29 Sep 92 02:55:11 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

Does anyone have any information about the Power Burst Training System
by Leo Costa as advertised in M&F?  This seems to fall into the category
"If it seems to good to be true, it probably is".  

THANX,

Ray
 
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: RICK@ysub.ysu.edu (Rick Marsico)
Subject: Re: BORON instead of steroids
Organization: Youngstown State University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 11:56:33 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.233136.2121@col.hp.com>
mikev@col.hp.com (Mike Vigil) writes:
 
>Does anyone have any information about BORON.  I'm a drug free power lifter.
>I receive a monthly drug free power lifting magazine called "The Natural".  In
>this magazine there was an ad for Boron.  The ad reads as follows:
>
BORON should be avoided.  Two independent sources, which I no longer have,
stated pretty much the same thing.  The only study done was where Boron was
given to pregnant woman, a slight increase in testosterone levels resulted.
I can't recall why exactly they were given the Boron in the first place.
Since the time that the results were published, these numbers have been
misrepresented in add after add.
 
One study even went on to say, that Boron in healthy males actually causes a
significant decrease in testosterone levels.
 
 
Rick
From: mdk@michael.udev.cdc.com (Mike D. Kail)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Low Body Fat %
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:34:23 GMT
Reply-To: mdk@michael.udev.cdc.com (Mike D. Kail)
Organization: Control Data Systems

I recently had my Body Fat % taken at my Health Club via a small
computer - the Futrex 1000.  I realize that this is not the most
accurate means, but it was free. ;-)  I had this done early in
the morning, before I had eaten anything, though I was properly
hydrated.  I knew that my % was low, but it came out to be a
*whopping* 0.5%.  I know that this number is _not_ humanly possible,
and the margin of error for this machine for extremely lean/obese
people is greater, but is it possible for a person's BF % to actually
be too low?  Are there any dangers/side effects/etc...???

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| Mike D. Kail                          mdk@udev.cdc.com        |
| Control Data Systems, Inc.                                    | 
| 4201 North Lexington Avenue           (612) 482-2942 (W)      |
| Arden Hills, MN  55126                (612) 628-9132 (H)      |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Fast or slow, no matter what the pace, I know I can win."    |
|  - Morceli                                                    |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
From: silver@macbeth.umd.edu (Adam Silver)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: CLENBUTEROL (was Re: Ephedrine and Caffeine)
Date: 1 Oct 92 01:29:38 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

In article <1992Sep30.173414.21537@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>On the other hand, if this view of the effects of these drugs is
>so outrageous (and I'm inclined to agree), I can't figure out why
>clenbuterol, which is essentially a much more powerful beta agonist
>than ephedrine, is habitually referred to as having "anabolic"
>properties.  At best I'd imagine that it might help burn fat.
>
>-- 
>Steve Dyer
>dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer

Well, you imagined wrong.  It does have anabolic properties.  Do I know this
from the biochemistry?  No, of course not.  I'm not a biochemist or have a
big interest in the subject.  Then how do I know this is true?

Take a look at anyone who has used the stuff.  I've had a couple people in my
study use it.  I learn from observation and experience.  It's VERY anabolic
and does wonders on cutting fat.  You should see these guys.

							-Adam

Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: g5000005@nickel.laurentian.ca
Subject: re: succinates
Organization: Laurentian University
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:58:50 GMT

 cutrell@nic.cerf.net (Doug Cutrell) writes:

>I recently tried a product from Champion Nutrition called "Muscle
>Nitro".  It contains primarily sodium and potassium succinates
>(around 3 grams per serving), plus some inosine and branched chain
>amino acids.  The instructions are to take it 45 minutes before
>a workout.  The hype on the bottle says its supposed to improve
                 ^^^^
>oxygen utilization in muscles and reduce lactic acid buildup.

	That's all it is - hype!

>The thing is, the stuff seems to work -- at least when I use
>it occasionally, before an intense workout, I definitely seem
>to get a "second wind" well into my workout.  When normally I
>would feel tired and "used up", with the succinates I feel
>rarin' to go and typically continue for longer, with more reps
>and higher weights.
 
	This is the result of a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you think something
will work, then invariably it does. The psychological state has a tremendous
impact on percieved exertion/fatigue.

>My question is:  is this harmful?  Has anyone else had experience
>with succinates, positive or negative?  Does reducing the
>"metabolic impact" of intensive training also lessen its growth
>stimulating properties?  It is possible that the effects are
>psychological (I know the mind can exert powerful influences), but
>they really do seem to be striking.
 
>Doug Cutrell
>cutrell@cerf.net

	Doug, just because you ingest substances that are involved in metabolic
processes, this doesn't mean that you will accelerate metabolism. This is a 
fundamental misconception that the companies that make this shit like to 
promote. It's like the protein powders that Weider, etc. promote to "rebuild"
muscle after a workout. The theory (and belief) stems from the ancient belief
that you are what you eat. Ancient warriors used to eat the hearts of their 
slain enemies in the belief that they would capture their enemies strength and
courage! Protein powders represent a modern equivalent. Protein is involved in
the production of muscle tissue, hormones, glands, tears, hair, etc. When you 
ingest protein or amino acids, you can't control where these building blocks
will be used in the body. Likewise with succinates. It's a long way from your
gastrointestinal tract to the mitochondria in your muscles. These succinates 
would have to be pretty smart to be able to target the appropriate organs within
45 minutes (or any time frame for that matter).

	These succinates sound like a great way to make someone else rich. How 
do I buy shares?

Nordic Norm
From: donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Guest post - rowing machine wanted
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:37:36 GMT
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA

N.B.  I'm posting this for a friend, please respond to her at
haecky@tss.com instead of to my account..


I want to buy a rowing machine. I know, there are two types: the ones with
cylinders, and the ones with fly wheels, and then there is Nordic Trac, which
includes resistance for the legs.
I have only used the basic fly wheel type at the gym.

1) If you own a rowing machine, what type did you choose (what brand) and why,
   and how much did you pay for it ?

2) Is there a market for a used rowing machine ? Are *you* selling one ?

If you send email, I will summarize.

                 __
     _______    /*_>-<       Valerie Haecky           _ ^---^
 ___/ _____ \__/ /           haecky@tss.com          <_|-----)>
<____/     \____/                                       v---v
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur)
Subject: Re: Optifast (Liquid diets)
Keywords: liquid diet body metabolism cold sex
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 21:08:24 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.002223.1359@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> tjoa@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Richard Tjoa) writes:
>I originally posted this to misc.consumers...
>
>I was wondering if anyone out there has had experiences with Optifast (or
>the like) liquid diet plans.  More specifically, they say that while
>on the plan, you will very likely feel cold, because your body temperature/
>metabolism will be slowed down/reduced.

I'm not sure that's the reason you'll feel cold.  But it is a common side
effect.  Others include hair loss, sleeplessness, bad breath, frequent
urination, and a propensity towards gall bladder problems (but I still
have mine).

>Also, it would seem to me that lowering metabolism rates would be totally
>dumb, after all, wouldn't you want to be burning as many calories as you
>possibly could, while taking in less?  (Dumb?  Make that "beyond dumb")

A slightly lowered metabolism (which can be minimized by exercise) may
be seen as a tolerable side effect given the "benefits" of a VLCD.  These
include maximal weight loss, minimal hunger, and minimal fussing (no 
weighing and measuring).

The simple truth is that the weight loss industry has not figured out a
way to help people maintain weight loss, regardless of the method they
choose to lose weight (the commonly quoted failure rate is 95%, which may
be inflated due to perpetual dieters, but is high nonetheless).

My own opinion is that VLCDs are a relatively safe, fast, and painless way
for *most* people to lose weight.  But like other diet plans, they suck
big time in helping people maintain lost weight.  Unfortunately, people
pay a big price, both literally ($$) and physiologically for what is
probably a temporary weight loss.

On the other hand, so far I've maintained my weight loss (~100 lbs) with
no major problems associated with the diet.  

As far as maintenance goes, I'm hoping to be a statistical aberration :-).

Beth Mazur                   "...life is more than a vision.  The sweetest
mazur@inmet.inmet.com         part is acting after making a decision."
...!uunet!inmet!mazur                                  -- The Indigo Girls
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: lorenzo@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Eric J. Lorenzo)
Subject: swimming vs. running
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 23:27:02 GMT

My friend has been telling me that swimming 1 mile is equivalent to 4 miles
on the road, cardiovascular wise.  I'm sure there are factors that are involved
in making a statement like this, but in general is it true?

Thanks,
Eric
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: lopez967@Armstrong.EDU (Lamar Lopez)
Subject: RE: Vitamin/C
Organization: Armstrong State College, Savannah, GA
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:54:19 GMT

>>>------------------------- Original Article -------------------------


>>I am currently taking 500mg a day of vit C.  I thought this would
>>be sufficient as being a smoker my body deletes vit C at an extremely fast
>>rate. So, am I taking enough vit C to maintain good health and is it true
>>that you cannot  "overdose" on vit C?

>>Janice.
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>Smoking does deplete your Vit C.  The rate of depletion per day will
>depend on how much you smoke per day.  I just read from a health/fitness
>poster that a STICK of cigarette depletes anywhere from 25-100 mg.
>I'm not sure about overdosing.  What I know however is that Vit C is one
>of those water-soluble vitamins and is easily passed out from the body.

>LES

I don't think you can KILL yourself by taking excess vitamin-C, but too much
vitamin C can contribute to kidney stones.  Ester-C (vitamin C chelated with
minerals) supposedly doesn't cause that problem.  Also too much vitamin C may
cause digestive disress or diarreah(Spelling?) by killing the helpful bacteria
in the digestive trac (temporarily).  I guess you could just pay attention to
your body and adjust your dosage accordingly.

Lamar
From: mickw@autodesk.com (Mick Washbrook)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: GHB
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:37:13 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <1992Sep28.135918.399@hnrc.tufts.edu>, loszewski_im@hnrc.tufts.edu writes:
> 
> Yes they did ban.  Unfortunately, I can't recall why.  From what I have heard, 
> it was pretty good stuff that "increased" your growth hormone level.  It is 
> similar to what is now called GABA or I think, Gamma Amino Butyric Acid.  GABA
> is supposed to have similar results as GHB did.  I have read from the NSA that
> it is a fairly good product, however, I have had no personal experience with 
> this product.
> 
> -Rob

The FDA banned GHB for the same reason they ban a lot of other good
substances: stupid people abused the stuff and spoiled it for the
rest of us. People were taking way too much of this stuff and were
falling into comatose sleep, which *will* happen if you overdo
GHB. Incidentally, GHB can be synthesized fairly easy from GABA,
which is still available. I can't claim that GHB increased muscle
density or quality, but it did let me get to sleep when I had
trouble doing so. Maybe the sleeping-pill industry were losing
their profits.

--
From: roberts@phoenix.ocf.llnl.gov (Don Roberts)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: A question....
Date: 6 Oct 92 22:01:40 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

jeffh@pisces.sps.mot.com (Jeff Heilner) writes:

>Here's a bizarre question about an observation I had....
>
>It seems every time I see pictures of bodybuilders, or even male models on  
>fitness magazines, they are completely void of body hair (or at least  
>chest hair).
>I suppose the reason is that the lack of chest hair results in better  
>muscle definition, but is this a genetic requisite for being a  
>bodybuilder/fitness magazine model, or do they regularly shave their chest  
>hair (OUCH!) or get rid of it in some other way?
>
>Just wondering.
>
>
>- Jeff

Yup, they shave their chests, arms, legs...you name it (well...) Some
people say they prefer using a depilatory (e.g., Nair). I guess the latter
method is better for taking care of one's back; the mind reels at the
thought of shaving places you can't see and can barely reach. Ouch.

In my case, since Mom and Dad shortchanged me in the chest hair dept., I
find it's easier to shave all six of them off from time-to-time rather
than try to live with the pitiful little crop.

	-- Don
--
 Dr. Donald W. Roberts
   University of California                                     Physicist
   Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory        Recreational Bodybuilder
   dwr@llnl.gov                                          Renaissance Dude

 The ideas and opinions expressed here do not represent official policies
 of Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory,  the University of California,
                or the United States Department of Energy.

(in this case, probably not surprising...)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: glex@nitro.cray.com (Jeff Gleixner)
Subject: Re: Low Body Fat %
Originator: glex@nitro
Reply-To: glex@nitro.cray.com (Jeff Gleixner)
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 6 Oct 92 11:44:24 CDT


|>     people is greater, but is it possible for a person's BF % to actually
|>     be too low?  Are there any dangers/side effects/etc...???

Yup.  2% is probably the lowest any living person would/could achieve.  A
man in great shape probably hits 5%, good shape around 10%.
-- 
glex@nitro.cray.com  === "Difficult tasks are never easy..."
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: cecchinr@gehrig.cs.rpi.edu (Ron Cecchini)
Subject: Re: Are all doctors stupid ?
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 14:10:12 GMT

In article <ip80180@pro-haven.cts.com> shadow@pro-haven.cts.com (Blaine Hufnagle) writes:
>In <c0dzrlk@rpi.edu> cecchinr@gehrig.cs.rpi.edu (Ron Cecchini) writes:
>% >170, so you can't tell me that those tables are correct, unless they are
>% >geared toward a sedentary person with less than 5% bodyfat, which is about as
>% >hard to find as the Grand Unified Theory.
>% 
>% .... so, you're only 40 pounds overweight then, right?  (sorry,
>% couldn't resist!)
>
>In the strictest sense, yes.  However, I'm not all that fat.
> 
>% Seriously though: YIKES!  210 at a height of 5'6'' ?!?  According to you,
>% that would put you at about 20% bodyfat.  Must be the off-season, eh?
>
>A little lower than 20 %, I think.  No such thing as off-season.  I've
>carried this much bodyfat all my life.  I'm trying to take it off slowly, in
>the hopes that slow removal will be permanent removal.
>
>
>-blaine
>
>-blaine   a.k.a. The Midnight Shadow    |  1979 Chevy Urban Assault Vehicle
>Texas Aggie Bus Driver and proud of it! |  1982 Thomas Transit Liner bus
>Another Bodybuilder from HELL!!         |  1982 Yamaha Vision   DoD #7192
>        "Mine is not to wonder why, Mine is but to look and cry....."
>

Well, I sympathize with you, 'cause it sounds like we have identical
metabolisms!  I'm 5'6'' as well and weigh 175-177.  I'd estimate I'm
around 15-16% bodyfat and, like you, have been so most of my life.

I plan on cranking up the aerobics this winter so that I may reveal
a much more "cut" physique come spring.  It may be an "old" bodybuilder's
way of thinking (though I'm only 24), but right now I prefer *not*
to restrict my calories; i.e. "bulking up" - even though I know it is
not the way to go (according to alot of people, some people *do* swear
by it!).

I do eat plenty of "good" stuff, its just that I haven't eliminated
all the "bad" stuff from my diet (like Chinese food at 3am after a night
of drinking...)  And, I'm currently not doing too much in the way of
aerobics (though I'm hoping that by making my diet stricter I won't have
to do as much aerobics as I'm thinking).

Ron

Newsgroups: misc.fitness
From: moody@brahms.udel.edu (John David Moody)
Subject: Protein vs. Weight Gainer Powder
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 02:49:45 GMT

I was recently reading M & F (Muscle and Fitness) and saw an ad for weight
gainer powder (Specifically, Joe Weider's Mega Mass 2000).  It contained
82 g protein and 312 g carbs, and 5 g fat vs. my protein powder which
contains 32 g protein, 12 g carbs, and 1 g fat.

I want to lose bodyfat while maintaining the muscle mass which I worked so
hard for.  Even though weight gainer powder seems like an illogical choice
(using weight gainer while wanting to lose weight), it seems reasonable because
it will give me sufficient protein, while providing me with carbs and very
little fat.  I will still eat my normal 2 meals/day (I am a student), but will
use the powder as a supplement.  Any suggestions as to whether I should try
the weight gainer powder to ensure that my muscle mass is maintained or even
increases.  I also am thinking of weight gain powder because I read that you
only gain bodyfat if you eat foods high in fat.

Any suggestions can either be e-mailed or posted.  Thank you.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
John David Moody - moody@brahms.udel.edu or moody@chopin.udel.edu
PhD candidate - Physical/Theoretical Chemistry - University of Delaware 
"Are you in good spirits, or are good spirits in you?" - John D. Moody
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: love handles
Date: 4 Oct 92 05:21:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct4.052107.21687
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <NPk2RB1w165w@dorsai.com> beng@dorsai.com (ben ng) writes:
>I used to be overweight, 180lbs. Now I'm a comfortable, fit 150lbs.
>I'm exercising constantly, weights, push-ups, sit-ups, squats, etc.
>Yet one thing eludes me. Yep, them evil love handles..left over from
>my obese days..and still some bit of fat in the stomach area.
>I need to know of an excersie that will help me lose this fat, the love
>handles and something that will tighten the skin..other than surgury. :)

If additional weight loss is not an option, liposuction might be the
only guaranteed way to do it.  Spot reducing really isn't possible,
and I don't think there is much in the way of muscle tone which would
deal with love handles.

Of course, why not have the love handles used for the reasons you
have 'em--make a virtue out of heredity!

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: silver@macbeth.umd.edu (Adam Silver)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Ephedrine and Caffeine
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:46:25 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Maryland

In article <717893165snx@bai.baylis.COM> jon@bai.baylis.COM (Jon Granrose) writes:

>Can someone tell me what the current recommended dosage is?  I'm not too

[talking about ephedrine and caffeine -- stuff deleted]

>Jon

50mg (2 Dymetadrine tabs), 200mg caffeine, and 650mg of aspirin.

							-Adam