HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Jack_Webb@mindlink.bc.ca (Jack Webb)
Subject: Re: Artifical Fur Manufacturers - Request for Info.
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 22:13:18 GMT

In a previous message, I flamed Abhay for putting down the person who wrote
the fake fur question. It turns out that I placed the blame on the wrong
person.

******SORRY, ABHAY!!!!***************************************

It turns out that the culprit was George Clarke... Sorry, George, but quit
with the "alt.shit" stuff... any issue that a vegetarian wants to bring up
should be ok to discuss here.

again, sorry Abhay, and I hope that you forgive me.

Merry holiday to all!

*j*

--
WE SAIL TONIGHT FOR SINGAPORE - WE'RE ALL AS MAD AS HATTERS HERE!!

*******************Jack_Webb@mindlink.bc.ca***********************
****VANCOUVER, BRITISH COLUMBIA, CANADA...HOME OF THE NEUROTIC****
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: Re: Limited vegetarianism of India
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 07:54:44 GMT

In article <36822@sophia.inria.fr> chandy@marais.inria.fr (Chandra SHEKHAR) writes:
>In article <shenoy.724867912@pv0260.vincent.iastate.edu>, shenoy@iastate.edu
>(Shiva Shenoy) writes:
>|> In <1992Dec20.081129.6411@abo.fi> abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
>|> writes:
>|> 
>|> >well. One  argument given  to me  was that  cows  would not  give milk
>|> >before they fed  the calves. This  does change my stand, even if it is
>|> >true, and I don't think that is true.
>|> 
>|> There is some truth to that especially in villages where a family owns a
>|> few
>|> heads of cattle. People do respect the animals even today. This is
>|> obviously
>|> not true in urban areas which are in a minority anyway. After giving birth,
>|> the mother does produce an excessive amount of milk and there is a limit to
>|> how much a calf can feed same as any human being. 
>
>In 99.99 % of the cases, all male calves are killed soon after birth.

This seems to be far from the truth. Soon there would be no cows, if
there were only 0.01 % males left.

>To persuade the cow to keep giving milk, the dead calf is stuffed
>with straw and placed near its mother. I have seen this done in
>some of the most orthodox Brahmin households in Southern India.
>Can't say I am greatly impressed by the humanitarian values displayed
>here ...
                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^
You mean cowitarian. Talk about humanitarian values ? I read about 
villages in South India where many female children are killed soon
after birth. Can one teach them vegetarianism ? This has appeared
on soc.culture.indian as a news item, and I remember seeing it in
a Times of India.

>
>|> As far as changing food habits when they go abroad, a lot of it because of
>|> the inavailability of vegetarian food. Your only choice is to cook it
>|> yourself. People are only human. Try and come to Iowa sometime. They are
>|> still 25 years behind in the times. This place is the leading pork
>|> producer.
>|> People associate vegetarianism with eating raw vegetables and bland salads.
>|> 
>
>Abhay's basic point is still true. Indian vegetarianism is a matter of
>habit and compulsion, and not of conscious choice. Indians therefore do 
>not deserve much credit it. Concern for the plight of animals is usually
>just a post facto explanation, rather than a real motive for vegetarianism.
>
>
>Chandy
>


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@clpd.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Subject: Calories cause breast cancer
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@clpd.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 00:46:01 GMT


From SCIENCE NEWS 138(19):302 (edited for brevity):

	Three researchers from the National Cancer Institute conclude, in 
	the September 15, 1990 CANCER RESEARCH that both fat and calories
	pose independent breast cancer risks.  A study of Finnish women
	published in the November, 1990 AMERICAN JOURNAL OF CLINICAL
	NUTRITION appears to confirm only the fat-linked risk, but Demetrius
	Albanes if the NCI, who co-authored the study, says he wasn't
	surprised that no independent risk from calories showed up, since
	the study involved relatively few cancer cases and lacked exercise
	data, and since the cancer and non-cancer groups had similar height-
	to-weight ratios.

	However, he says, the results did turn up hints that diets high in
	carbohydrates or milk might LOWER breast cancer risk by as much as
	60 percent.

and also:

	In the November 1, 1990 CANCER RESEARCH, W. Robert Bruce and co-
	workers report that cooking indeed appears to transform benign
	ingredients into ones that spur the growth of microadenomas -- common
	colon abnormalities that can develop into malignancies.  Investiga-
	tion showed that positive results which arose from protein/fat
	tests were not due to the use of beef tallow per se, but were due to
	more complete heating of the protein when cooked in tallow.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Vegetarian Cats2: Cost
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 18:23:54 GMT




D.  ARE VEGETARIAN DIETS FOR CATS ARE TOO EXPENSIVE?

> 1) I can't afford it,

I use the Barbara Peden's sponsored VEGECAT supplement.  It is
actually very inexpensive considering how very little you add
(about 1/2 tsp) to make up a batch of catfood (1 full size can
worth).  The bulk of the food consists of inexpensive food items
like soy beans, rice, garbanzo beans, lentils, oats, textured soy,
spouted beans, etc.  Foods found in your cupboard in any case.


					Happy Vegetarian New Year,
						ted
From: gbelli@opal.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: vegan bacon?
Date: 21 Dec 92 17:25:16 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA

In article <1992Dec16.145912.27150@eng.umd.edu>, dbader@eng.umd.edu (David Bader) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Dec15.185828.2758@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu>, red_trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>>Does anyone know of something on the market that resembles the 
>>taste of bacon, or at least bacon fat?  I'd sure like to 
> 
> I believe in my local Giant supermarket, there is a brand (I believe) called
> "Morning Sunshine" that carries Breakfast items which contain "No Animal Fat" and
> I think are vegetarian.  They have bacon, sausage, and hamburger -like products
> made from TVP.  
> 
> ppppppps,
>    david

As far as I know, Bacos are vegan.  Easy to find in your local supermarket.

Gretchen
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Jack_Webb@mindlink.bc.ca (Jack Webb)
Subject: Re: aspartame
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 00:37:40 GMT

> MURTY Hema Sandhyarani writes:
>
> Msg-ID: <C01E6u.Fzz@ecf.toronto.edu>
> Posted: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 19:59:1
>
> Org.  : University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
>
>
>         What is the source of aspartame in diet drinks?
>
>         Hema


unsure of what the source of it is, but thought you might be interested to
know that a lot of people are sensitive to it... migraines, etc.

*j*  :)

--
WE SAIL TONIGHT FOR SINGAPORE - WE'RE ALL AS MAD AS HATTERS HERE!!

*******************Jack_Webb@mindlink.bc.ca***********************
****VANCOUVER, BRITISH COLUMBIA, CANADA...HOME OF THE NEUROTIC****
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Dairy farming (was nice cows)
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 04:59:36 GMT

Russel (eerbl@cc.newcastle.edu.au) writes:


[excellent commentary deleted to save space]

>In summary. Buy soy milk. Its better food for humans and it ought to be cheaper 
>simply because it makes less use of resources. Cows' milk is "cheap" only
>because their lives are cheap.

That really does sum it up in a nutshell!  That we have made their
lives so very cheap and miserable only shows what a sorry state
we have allowed our better capacities for sympathy and compassion 
to become buried by the unthinking acceptance of this cultural
and personal practice of consuming animal products.  Indeed,
buy and try out soy milk.  .

					ted
From: ruthb@hotspring.sitka.sun.com (Ruth Blackburn)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Bisque Classic or Bisque New??
Date: 23 Dec 1992 22:41:09 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: ruthb@hotspring.sitka.sun.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: hotspring.sitka.sun.com

For some reason hundreds of articles were marked as unread today, so I just now
saw the message Ted had posted awhile ago about the differences between recipes
in the old and new Moosewood cookbooks.  I have the older version - my copy is
stained and taped together.  However, I don't yet feel a need to purchase
the new one, because I already improvise on Katzen's recipes and have for 
years.  I leave ingredients out and add others and usually reduce the amount
of oil, honey, etc. in the recipes.  I don't know how well this technique works
with the baked goods and desserts, however, as I don't make those too often.  I
am leaning towards becoming a vegan lately and am interested to see what I
can do with her lacto-ovo recipes.

Ruth
ruthb@sitka.sun.com 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: aspartame
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 23:27:23 GMT

In article <C01E6u.Fzz@ecf.toronto.edu> murty@ecf.toronto.edu (MURTY Hema Sandhyarani) writes:
>	What is the source of aspartame in diet drinks?

Monsanto. :-)

Aspartame is a completely synthetic compound, the methyl ester of
the dipeptide Asp-Phe.  Its raw materials for synthesis are undoubtedly
the amino acids phenylalanine and aspartic acid.  I would be very surprised
if you could trace the origins of these amino acids back to their source.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: ruman@meroot.eng.uci.edu (ruman)
Subject: Re: Limited vegetarianism of India
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Organization: Master Time Killers INc.
Date: 22 Dec 92 22:41:10 GMT

In article with message-id<1992Dec22.075444.6200@abo.fi>,  abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) posts:
=>In article <36822@sophia.inria.fr> chandy@marais.inria.fr (Chandra SHEKHAR) writes:
[...]
=>You mean cowitarian. Talk about humanitarian values ? I read about 
=>villages in South India where many female children are killed soon
=>after birth. Can one teach them vegetarianism ?

Well u can teach them abortion, amino-centesis, contraception. u 
could also teach them the alphabet and perhaps help them think
 for themselves.  u could also help set up a self-sustaining economy. 
if i remember rightly it was in the salem district of tamil nad state 
which is apparently a rather drought prone area.

u are rather uncharitable for a Gandhi follower, aren't u?
or so it appears to me. sitting cozy in europe and passing judgement
on some populace in india.

=>This has appeared
=>on soc.culture.indian as a news item, and I remember seeing it in
=>a Times of India.
=>

neither of which are very reliable sources. the TOI and its sister
 publications consistently manage to bag around 50% of the
reprimands issued by the Press Council of India (a voluntary
watchdog of the press).

=>>
=>>|> As far as changing food habits when they go abroad, a lot of it because of
=>>|> the inavailability of vegetarian food. Your only choice is to cook it
=>>|> yourself. People are only human. Try and come to Iowa sometime. They are
=>>|> still 25 years behind in the times. This place is the leading pork
=>>|> producer.
=>>|> People associate vegetarianism with eating raw vegetables and bland salads.
=>>|> 
=>>
=>>Abhay's basic point is still true. Indian vegetarianism is a matter of
=>>habit and compulsion, and not of conscious choice. Indians therefore do 
=>>not deserve much credit it. Concern for the plight of animals is usually
=>>just a post facto explanation, rather than a real motive for vegetarianism.
=>>
=>>
=>>Chandy
=>>
=>
=>

ruman

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: jbeason@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Joseph E. Beason)
Subject: Re: Gay cats? *Great*! (was "vegetarian cats2...", I think)
Organization: UIUC Department of Psychology
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 21:27:02 GMT

Hmmmmm, I'm not so sure this is a good idea.

Don't forget that a significant number of the newly homosexualized cats
will be closeted, and feel they need to engage in heterosexual activity in order
to maintain face and be respected by the larger community.

Now, a vegetarian diet implemented simultaneously with a thera[putic program
to increase self-esteem in regards to the new gay identity may be a good
replacement for neutering.  Much less invasive, good to avoid surgery in
fasvor of preventitive lifestyle change...
From: eric@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu (Eric Hansen)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: What do vegetarians feed their pets?
Date: 21 Dec 92 21:29:06 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

I'm just curious... what do all you vegetarians who own pets feed them?  It
would seem to me (although I'm not sure since I don't own pets) that most
pet food you buy in the supermarket has meat and meat products in it.  If
you are a vegetarian, do you insist that your pet has the same morals/lifestyle
that you do?

Eric Hansen

eric@binoc.bih.harvard.edu

--
* Eric J. Hansen                       |    Center for Clinical Computing   *
|  eric@binoc.bih.harvard.edu          |   350 Longwood Avenue, Boston, MA  |
*  eric@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu   |            (617) 732-5925          *
From: bbeck@igc.apc.org
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Date: 22 Dec 92 02:03 PST
Subject: Re: Pets and animal rights
Nf-ID: #R:BzF1HM.ACy@news.cso.uiuc.edu:-2113826162:cdp:1451200014:000:269
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!bbeck    Dec 22 02:03:00 1992


did y'all know that some brands of pet food include recycled doggies
and kitties as the meat source?  I've read that dogs can get by quite
well on a veggie diet ("Laurel's Kitchen") ... but I dunno if carnivorous 
kitties can do the same ..

bbeck@igc.org

bernie beck

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: ph@pencom.com (Patrick Hester)
Subject: Re: VEGAN:  long haired gourmet goes nuts for NYE
Reply-To: ph@pencom.com
Organization: Pencom Systems Incorporated
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 17:42:31 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.022122.10967@midway.uchicago.edu>  
mad4@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Maddex) writes:
> 
> Appetizer:   Wheat berry caviar on arame toast
> 
> Soup:        Carrot and red pepper
> 
> Starter:     Provencal artichoke tarts
> 
> Sorbet:      Champagne lemon granite
> 
> Entree:      N.Y. Cima roulade,
> 	     Garbanzo parsnip gnocchi and
> 	     Garlic parsley ribbons in tomato sauce w/
> 	     Zucchini w/toasted almonds
> 
> Salad:       Mixed greens w/shaved carrots and marinated mushrooms i
> 		in homemade French dressing
> 
> Desert:	     Mocha creme pie
> 
> 
> Hope the menu satisfies y'all out there.

IT WOULD!

> I know you won't be making this tommorow

Damn right since you didn't post the recipes!!!!!!!
Please be so kind...

--
Patrick Hester   ph@pencom.com   (212) 513-7777   NeXT Mail OK   =8(\/\)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet (Clover M.)
Subject: Re: Comfort foods for colds
Reply-To: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 93 08:20:07 GMT

If you're Ovolacto, try cous cous (I assume you all know how to make it)
mixed with either soft boiled eggs and/or cottage cheese.  A wee bit ot
salt and pepper - Umm!!! I know I'll miss them sooner or later.
 
Let
Let's see... vegan comfort food... cream of wheat with margarine,
salt and pepper or non-dairy "milk", maple syrup or brown suagr and
raisins?

Clover, wishing for comfort as of now!
Clover
la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
This is my very first sig.file

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Strange Squeamishness
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 04:48:27 GMT

Jack Webb writes:

[...]
>I had an interesting experience recently in one of my college classes... I am
>a library tech. student.  We were discussing bookbinding... particularly the
>animal hides used as book covers.  

Thank goodness this is becoming a rarity, sought only by those 
bibliomaniacs (not to be confused with bibliophiles and bibliophages)
who collect only for the sake of "having" as opposed to
reading.   :-)


>My whole class was listening as the
>professor went into great detail about the process of hiding and tanning,
>quite a disgusting thing to have to listen to for 2 hours, I assure you!

Not always easy being an ethical vegetarian in a predominately meat-eating
culture.  :-(


>Anyhow, he got to a piece of trivia in which there was a criminal whose skin
>had been used to bind the book of his trial proceedings (18th century or
>something).  Suddenly, the class became upset and irate!!  No problem with
>the pigs or cows, but for people...!!!

That is indeed an interesting example of our speciesism.  Curious how
Animal skins are merely materials, hides, while using human skin in the
same manner is an unspeakable abomination.


>It just seems strange that my classmates found me strange for eating lentil
>loaf -- and there they are with this strange set of rules... makes sense??

Doesn't make sense to me, hence the odd defensiveness and maybe 
self-serving want of discursive reflection upon this contradiction.
Oh well.

>--
>WE SAIL TONIGHT FOR SINGAPORE - WE'RE ALL AS MAD AS HATTERS HERE!!

>*******************Jack_Webb@mindlink.bc.ca***********************
>****VANCOUVER, BRITISH COLUMBIA, CANADA...HOME OF THE NEUROTIC****


Just one neurotic? :-)   Anyway, good to see a fellow Vancouverite 
posting, especially from what I gather bo be that pay-as-you-go 
MINDLINK.  I wasn't aware that they also had a link to internet.
When I graduate next year no doubt I'll be losing my free
computer account at the university; maybe I could
continue via MINDLINK.  I'm sure George Clark would
be pleased  :-)

			Happy Vegetarian Holiday,
						
					ted
From: sbhattac@rnd.GBA.NYU.EDU (Shankar Bhattacharyya)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vitamin D from sunshine
Date: 4 Jan 93 04:24:30 GMT
Organization: NYU Stern School of Business

In article <1993Jan3.200213.23362@pixel.kodak.com> young@clpd.kodak.com writes:
>In article <altar.726085618@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:

>>    Ordinary electric lights have a very limited spectrum of
>>light, but full-spectrum lightening attempts to reproduce
>>sunlight as closely as possible, but of course not exactly nor
>>nearly as intense.  [...]

>	I should hope not!  In the first place, the sun uses nuclear fusion,
>	which is notoriously hard to contain, and "lightening" is an electrical
>	discharge.  To reproduce sunlight with such a discharge within the
>	confines of one's abode would generate abominably loud thunderclaps
>	and would, no doubt, disturb neighbors...especially in adjoining
>	apartments.

The physicist/inventor Steinmetz used to like to arrange lightning
discharges (well, sizable electrical discharges, anyway) in his living
room, for the entertainment of guests. I gather that for special occasions
he would blow away a model town. I read that some thirty years ago, in a
kids' book on science, so I am not in any real position to vouch for the
accuracy of the story. Sounds dangerous, though. When you deal with voltage
high enough to discharge across significant distances, even a few inches,
strange things happen. You get discharges around corners, along wooden
surfaces, and so on.

But I would certainly have liked to have been able to do that when I was a
kid.

- Shankar
From: ldh@svl.cdc.com (Lawrence D. Hare)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: test please ignore
Date: 24 Dec 92 00:53:55 GMT
Organization: Control Data
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
X-XXMessage-ID: <A75E477F76010833@ldhslip.svl.cdc.com>
X-XXDate: Wed, 23 Dec 92 16:42:39 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.193947.1@ccsua.ctstateu.edu> ,
glick_jer@ccsua.ctstateu.edu writes:
>testing ignore

Likewise - I have been trying to get my PowerBook to post from home using
SLIP and Nuntius into my news server in HQ Minneapolis via my normal host
in Santa Clara. If you can read this, then I have finally solved the "no
persmission to post" problem. This only happened because the server did
not recognize my legitamacy (Boy - what a set up :-) when coming in on my
own subnet via the slip gateway running on my normal host, in other words
- an extra hop and a new IP. If anyone else has problems setting up
something along these lines, feel free to contact me. T'ain't easy!

This is a wonderful capability though.

Cheers - Lawrence
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: jpenovic@encore.com (Jan Penovich)
Subject: Re: Artifical Fur Manufacturers - Request for Info.
Reply-To: jpenovic@encore.com
Organization: Encore Computer Corp., Fort Lauderdale FL
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:55:05 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.075845.6334@abo.fi>, abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay
Bulsari VT) writes:
> In article <50717@shamash.cdc.com> ldh@svl.cdc.com (Lawrence D. Hare) writes:
> 
> Question about artificial fur deleted.
> 
> >I offer my apologies to anyone finding this posting out of place here.
> 
> I don't find it out of place. These issues are tightly linked to those
> of vegetarianism, and we often talk about issues which don't have any
> vegetarian food in them.
> 
> Abhay
> 

  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the name of this
  newsgroup rec.FOOD.veg? 

  jan
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Jack_Webb@mindlink.bc.ca (Jack Webb)
Subject: Re: Veggie Burgers / McDonald's
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 02:20:32 GMT

> Geert K. Marien writes:
>
> {most of article deleted...}
>
>  Almost all vegetarians I know cook  at home, even taking lunches with
> them to  work.  So, I would  be very skeptical  of how many would  go to
> McDonald's on  a regular basis  - and  that is the  key.  If there  is a
> momentary rush, that is fine, but  what happens when the market retracts

True.  I also know very few vegetarians (myself, included) who frequent
restaurants that are as flagrantly non-vegetarian as they are.  There is also
the issue that if I have a choice between a McVeg or a veg. sandwich, I will
pick the sandwich *every single time*...  I just can't see a McDonald's
staffer taking great care with the preparation of my "burger"...

*j*  :)

--
WE SAIL TONIGHT FOR SINGAPORE - WE'RE ALL AS MAD AS HATTERS HERE!!

*******************Jack_Webb@mindlink.bc.ca***********************
****VANCOUVER, BRITISH COLUMBIA, CANADA...HOME OF THE NEUROTIC****
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg