HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stedee@auto-trol.com (Steve Deemer)
Subject: Re: Weapons (Big & Small vs. Medium)
Organization: Auto-trol Technology Corporation
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:52:57 GMT

In article <RATINOX.92Jul27081213@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu> ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steel Rat) writes:
>>>>>> On 26 Jul 92 03:09:20 GMT, mmadsen@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Matt Madsen)
>>>>>> said:
>
>MM> I've noticed that characters in RPGs never carry medium-sized weapons.
>MM> Either they carry a rifle or a pistol.  They almost never carry a
>MM> submachine gun.  In fantasy games they carry a broadsword or, perhaps,
>MM> a concealable dagger -- never a short sword.
>
>Because, for game-balance reasons, *every* game company penalizes you in
>one way or another for using an SMG. In the "real world," you unload a clip
>and kill everything in a room; in RPGs, you stand a good chance of missing
>everything. Of *course* nobody will carry one.

In the "real world", SMGs are very hard to use effectively.  If you
"unload a clip" in a room, you will be lucky to hit anyone, let alone
everyone.  For this reason, skilled shooters tend to use pistols or
rifles.  In the "real world", it's getting hard to find SMGs in
service with any first-world military or police force.  The Ingram M-10
was originally designed as a replacement for the M1911 .45 pistol
in service with the US military.  It failed so badly that the company
making the M-10 went out of business.

>
>MM> What can be done to change this?
>
>Make the benefits of using these "undesirable" weapons tangible within game
>mechanics. SMGs use the same rounds as handguns, generally doing slightly
>more damage (no diatribe on barrel lengths, etc). In single-shot modes
>they're a bit less accurate, but not by much. In full automatic modes
>someone with minimal skill will hit with around half of the rounds fired
>(assuming no civilian hostages in the way).

Over on rec.guns, there's a discussion going on about what's a better
weapon for street riot defense, SMG or shotgun?  The general concensus
is that it's difficult at best to hit anything with an SMG after the
first shot.  In order to have any kind of accuracy, you have to
fire single shots or very short bursts.  And if you're going to do
that, why not use a weapon designed to do that, like a pistol?

I'd say the RPGs have it about right.  There's no real reason for
SMGs when better weapons are available.


______________________________________________________________________________
Steven Deemer                 "They say a boy should tire of being a creep and
stedee@auto-trol.COM           should sit quietly and ask Respectability to
                               lead him away.  But when Respectability comes to
                               me I will fight it and I, Eddie Haskell, I will
                               tear the letters off its very sweater!"
From: mfp+@CS.CMU.EDU (Michael Polis)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: WANTED: frp map maker
Date: 26 Jul 92 17:26:57 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University

I would have posted this earlier, but I was sure somone else would mention it.

The universal simulation mailing list archive has a couple of terrain
generating programs, fractal.c and plates.c.  Both generate terrain on a
square grid, but if you shift every other column up 1/2 square, you should
get a reasonable hex map.  Fractal.c generates nicer looking results.

This is the entry from the RPG ftp sites post (from the the last time I saved
the post).
-----
Name:           Universal Simulation Mailing List (usml) ftp site
Address:        topgun.agps.lanl.gov (192.12.184.4)
Status:         Apparently Defunct
Info Updated:   12-Feb-1992
Notes:          Once upon a time, some net.people made a joke about writing a
                program or two that simulated the Universe. Ho ho ho. Pretty
                funny. But other people took them seriously and thus was born
                the short lived mailing list called usml, and thus were written                a number of programs which simulated various parts of the
                universe. There are subsector generators for Traveller, star
                system generators using several methods, and plate tectonic
                generators to generate random land masses (not very pretty).

                Here are the contents of pub/usml:

                Actual                  accrete.c               shebs
                Archive                 accretion.amiga         siod.c
                Digests                 accretion.src           starcul.shar
                List                    archive                 starform
                OtherSun.src            cellsim_1.5.tar.Z       system.arc
                Psychohistory           fractal.c               traveller.tar
                README                  plates.c                xc5.1-tar.Z
                Universe                references
----
From: silber@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ami A. Silberman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Military Mechs?
Date: 28 Jul 92 21:19:39 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL

jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim) writes:
>>I think we are getting to the heart of the thing here. This magical efficiency
>>of myomer and fusion engines compared to everything else appears to be a major
>>assumption behind the existences of 'mechs' ( Size and shape arguements put
>>aside ).

>	Kindof like the 'magical' efficiency of superconductors compared to 
>everything else, or the 'magical' efficiency of fibre-optic communications 
>as compared to electrical lines. (A single, hair-sized fiber optic cable 
>can support 10^12 bits of information per second, with no need for repeaters 
>with present technology.) 

But what Battletech is trying to do is sort of like saying "fiber optics can
only be used for transmission of text". And the wiseguy in the back says
"why can't you use it to transmit pictures", and Battletech says "it can
only be used for transmission of text, pictures are two dimensional",
and the guy in the back says "why can't we encode the pictures in binary
as .gifs", and Battletech says "because binary isn't text", and the guy
in back say "We can represent binary as text", and Battletech says "but
pictures aren't text" and so on and so on and so on. Then the guy in the
back says "OK, I'll fax it on a landline", and Battletech says "Nope, no
faxes either, since in my rules you can't transmit pictures other than by
surface mail."
-- 
ami silberman - janitor of lunacy
	silber@cs.uiuc.edu
From: jwadsley@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Military Mechs? Hexapod
Date: 31 Jul 92 12:23:52 +1000
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia

In article <1992Jul30.232825.3784@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>, ins769v@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (Veltyen) writes:
> Anybody thought of jump jets??

If you know what's good for you, do not bring up jump jets. You've been
watching too much Astroboy.

a) They could work on tanks just as well as mechs
b) IMHO they are impractical anyway:
 i) How do you power them? If they are remotely based on conventional jump jet
  technology then the vehicle is a sitting duck whilst employing them.
 ii) If they are high powered then they would be impossible to control. The
  jets would rip themselves off the mech, flip the mech or just send it flying
  headfirst. Compare the steam powered launching mechanisms on aircraft
  carriers.

> Third type of locomotion devices, etc.

I refer you to Wylie Coyote. I'm sure he has tried everything. :-)

> -Veltyen

I wouldn't lecture about warfare if I were you.

James Wadsley.
From: v131p9t3@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Ninstar Cybermage - Back Again from the Mists!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Military Mechs?
Date: 29 Jul 92 01:42:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <MeRNrcy00UhW05B3oK@andrew.cmu.edu>, wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu (William Henry Timmins) writes...
>I suppose pistons have been 'forgotten' in the ensuing centuries? I can
>think of several designs for tanks which would utilize myomer muscle.
> 
>Intelligence is in the eye of the intelligent, bub.

OOPS, ya got me there.  It doesn't make me stupid, yaknow, it just means you've
solved the exercise in a way other than that planned by the asker.  Ever done
this to a teacher?  It's loads of fun.

Pistons are possible, but I don't know if you'd want to do it this way.  Much
like muscle, the myomer only contracts and relaxes.  It does not expand.  This
means that when the next piston is being pulled back it is also fighting against
the last myomer(stretching it).  In a mech leg this isn't a problem and in 
fact helps to increase stability in the leg.  In a piston arrangement is reduces
the efficiency of the engine.

More development, more experimentation...

Hey, It could be done!  But you might find yourself in a time period when it
works efficiently in mechs and not in tanks.  And a muscular drive system
would be more intuitive for use in Mechs.  Mind you, I point to a number
of BTECH vehicles(tanks) that use Fusion engines.  They would be a boon to
tank technology.

>Mind you, I agree that robotic armor and robots will be useful in
>certain areas, but humanoform piloted robots more than 4 meters tall in
>1 g is silly. Powered armor, exosuits, and the like (near human in size)
>make sense for infantry.

I disagree about the prospect of mechs being useful or silly.  But that's me.
As for anything else like Powered armor for infantry, I really like this idea,
and it is much more feasible than mechs.  This does not repeat NOT mean mechs
are infeasible, it just means Powered armor would be easier.

James Shank           	#		v131p9t3@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
AKA: Ninstar Cybermage  #	or	shank@acsu.buffalo.edu
###############################################################################
"Ten thousand years old...He could be trouble." -Vampire Hunter D
"Every night I say a prayer, in the hope that there's a heaven..."-Styx
"How do you make ammends for a god's sins?"-Forgotten Realms
##############################################################################
Sneaky Types,Inc.:Clandestine operations for the common man.
	"Don't call us.  We'll just bill you when it's done."
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: gil@smtc21.engr.scarolina.edu (Gil Young)
Subject: GURPS: Alien races -- Too powerful?
Summary: Really acutely intelligent question about GURPS Space Aliens.
Keywords: GURPS Aliens Space
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 06:33:07 GMT

   It has occured to me that perhaps GURPS Aliens (and Fantasy Races,
for that matter) have an edge over normal humans:  "What is that?"
you ask.  Attrubutes and Disads.  Let me give an example of how 
useful this could be:
  I decide to make a Gerodian with ST 8, DX 13, IQ 16, and HT 9.
Gerodians receive a -1 to ST, +3 to IQ, and -1 to HT, as well as
Eidetic Memory/1, and it costs 10 points to play one.  It costs
another 50 points to get the attributes I want, and I've spent 
60 points on a really good set of stats and have another 40 points,
plus 45 in disads and quirks.  If I wanted to be a human with those
stats and Eidetic Memory/1, It would cost me (-15+30+80-10+30=115)
points.  Now admittedly, the Gerodian point cost is moderated by
35 points in disads and a couple of skills I may not want, but I'm
sure you get the picture:  What I've done is gotten a point break
on stats and an extra 35 points in disads.  What do you GURPS players
think about this?
   Before you start thinking I'm just dumping this in your lap, I'll
tell you my thoughts on the matter:
  First and most obvious is to limit the number of points in personal
disads the alien character can have.  One way is to reduce the points
in disads by the amount saved on stats.  For instance, Gerodian man
saved 25 points on stats, so he could only have (40-25=) 15 points
in personal disads.  The other way is by an arbitrary, GM-set amount.
I'm sure this list is far from exhaustive.  What do y'all think?

Thanks in advance,
	Gil Young
	gil@smtc21.engr.scarolina.edu
From: millerl@jeremiah.wharton.upenn.edu (Loren J. Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Dangerous Journeys -- Mythus is out
Summary: more info and a Heka question
Date: 25 Jul 92 15:03:43 GMT
Organization: wcit

Mythus is the fantasy rules for the Dangerous Journey's multigenre
RPG. That's the way the two are related. BTW, I forgot to mention the
price in the earlier note. It's $26 for the 412 page book.

I also have a question for anybody who has the book or has played at a
convention. The difference between full practitioner and partial
practitioner is emphasized as important in the book, but aside from
the ability of full practitioners to get a lot more magic power than
partial practitioners it isn't described at all. What is the
difference between a full and partial practitioner of magic? If you
could, give an example of how it would work in play to try for a mage
character and fail, thus ending up with a partial practitioner. What
skills would you have? How powerful would the character be? What
choices as to alternate skill emphasis would the character have?
Equally important would be a priest character. I find this section of
the rules extremely confusing, and don't remember being this confused
about rules since first reading the AD&D 1st Ed DMG.




-- 
-- 
Loren Miller     <MILLERL@scrolls.wharton.upenn.edu>
All our patients here are suffering from severe over-acting. When
they're brought in they're all really over the top.
From: damatt01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu (David A. Mattingly)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Champions
Date: 31 Jul 92 18:30:55 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

cassidy@cps.msu.edu.cps.msu.edu (John J Cassidy) writes:

>a 13 INT character could have myriad applicable Complementary
>Skills. 

I'm under the impression that only ONE complementary skill can be used for
a skill, or that if you use more than one, they only aid each other, not
the skill itself.

Example: If I had paramedic, human anatomy, and medicine on a 13-, and really
needed to save a charcter, I could use medicine to complement anatomy, and use
my new improved anatomy to complement paramedic.



-- 
                                                    . `.*.' .
             New Wave Dave                  . . *. * :+   +:*.`. .
     damatt01@ulkyvx.ct.louisville.edu   . *   .  . ' o   o .  *  . . .
             (502)584-6707              .  .    .     |\^/|     .    *
                                                       \V/  
         "We lost ten million dollars!"                /_\  art by
     "Have you looked in your other pants?"           _/ \_ Jittlov
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: chris@.IMD.Sterling.COM (Chris Olson)
Subject: Re: Dangerous Journeys -- Mythus is out
Organization: Sterling Software
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:41:32 GMT
X-Md4-Signature: af4d5b3a7b44c5b98d1e48d75dbaaa3b

In article <1992Jul24.193400.5741@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, schwarts@cps.msu.edu (Steven Eric Schwartz) writes:
|> With respect to DJ/M, is Mythus a generic rules set ie. cross-genre? Or is it
|> the fantasy part. Loren, can you give more details?
|> -- 
|> Steven Eric Schwartz            "It's not safe out here. It's wonderous, with
|> (schwarts@cps.msu.edu)           treasures to satiate desires both subtle and
|> 125 East Wilson Hall-MSU         gross.  But it's not for the timid."
|> East Lansing, Michigan  48825                           - Q, "Q Who"

Near as I can figure from the rules, it's a multi-genre rules set.  However,
this rule book emphasizes fantasy.  It would only need what GURPS needs for
each genre:  Skill Lists, and Weapons.  It would also need Social Status info.

I've studied the Mythos Prime rules (look good, kinda GURPish) and am about to
wade into the Advanced rules.
-- 
    ____/    /           __/            chris@IMD.Sterling.COM
   /        __  /   __/   /    ___/
  /        /   /   /     /  ___  /      "It's intuitively obvious to the most
______/ __/ __/ __/   __/ ______/        casual observer..."
From: doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Anyone Heard of Rifts
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:56:12 GMT
Reply-To: doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu
Organization: Department of Chemistry, UCLA

Okay, so what do they do about the Cyberknight?  Just watch him carefully?

"Oh, sir, I'm sorry, but you're going to have to check your psi-blade at the
door."  Yeah, right.

-Doug Gibson
 doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu

Neither UCLA nor the National Science Foundation has a clue what I am doing.
They just pay me to do it.

"We have to tear you to shreds because we care." - EAC
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: gray@visix.com (Gray Jones)
Subject: Re: SRUN: Upper limit on armor spells?
Reply-To: gray@visix.com (Gray Jones)
Organization: Visix Software Inc., Reston, VA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 13:04:20 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.010159.20508@samba.oit.unc.edu>, rhunt@med.unc.edu (Rick Hunt) writes:
|> I have a question to all of you Shadowrun gurus.  I am playing a mage and
|> wanted to cast a spell locked armor spell on myself, after watching our
|> big troll go down in one shot.  I have the spell at force 5, a magic pool
|> at 6 and an elemental at force 4 and used him for 3 dice.  We used a
|> target number of 3 and I rolled 14 dice, resulting in 10 successes.  The
|> GM was not amused by the prospect of me having 10 points of dermal armor
|> permanantly locked on.  He said that there _must_ be some kind of upper
|> limit on these things but we couldn't find anything.  Are we missing
|> something?

I just make every point over 3 cause a loss of flexibility such that your reaction begins
to suffer.  Why do you think there are only 3 levels of dermal plating?  Armor is just
a variation on petrify, isn't it?

--gray
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: covin@tartarus.uchicago.edu (David Covin)
Subject: Harsh Language
Organization: University of Chicago Computer Science
	<1992Jul24.171533.22294@news.columbia.edu>
	<0095E410.6141CE40@abby.chem.ucla.edu>
	<1992Jul29.212520.21364@news.columbia.edu>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:58:09 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.212520.21364@news.columbia.edu> jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim) writes:
 
	   btw, can we tone down the harsh langauge in some of these 
   discussions? I don't think that opening statement of "Like Hell" and 
   "Bullshit" (from another post) are much conducive to productive 
   conversation.

Sorry about that.  It was meant in the card game sense, not as an
insult.  It did occur to me after posting that I might have been
foolish, as no comment on the Net is ever taken lightly. :)

--
David Covin                           covin@despair.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: ahankin1@cc.swarthmore.edu (A. Luke Hankins)
Subject: Re: New Names for a Flesh Golem
Organization: Swarthmore College
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 20:13:56 GMT

holmes@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Krishgan) writes:


> Regarding the arguements on "Frankenstein's Monster"...

> First of all, in the books, he was known as Adam, and was considerably 
> more intelligent that "Frankenstein" from the first two editions of the
> movie back in the earlier part of this century.
> [ .. ]

> And as for the ORIGINAL query the poster put out for names for a Flesh
> Golem for AD&D...

>    Adam, in memory of the ORIGINAL -Monster-

hello? what did i miss? are you referring to mary shelley's creation? the
one from the book _Frankenstein_ ? ifd so, you are _sorely_ mistaken...
within the book (did you write 'books' on purpose?) the creature is
referred to either as "the wretch" or "the creature" with few exceptions...


>  -Keith
-- 
______________________________________________________________________
===Starman-* 		|	ahankin1@cc.swarthmore.edu
			|	tnx luke
________________________|______________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Subject: Re: Military Mechs?
Reply-To: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:36:43 GMT

Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow) writes:
>jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim) writes:
>
>> Fusion power in general is pretty heavy garbology, yet it remains in use as 
>> science fiction staple. Already the mech has insufficient shielding to
>> protect its pilot form the neutrons produced in the fusion process.
>
>Some fusion reactions do not emit neutrons.

	Really? I admit I'm not 'Mr. Fusion', but how can you keep the 
standard deuterium-deuterium reaction from occuring? 

>
>> Yes, you can invent future technologies without postulating startling
>> innovations or discoveries - but don't try to tell me they are more
>> 'realistic' than others; they are just more comprehensible.
>
>It is valid to base future technologies on standard projections, such as for
>the density of solid-state memory chips or the speed of computers.  Likewise,
>using standard projections for technologies necessary for fusion reactors can
>also be valid.

	Yes, it is 'valid', but it is not more valid than a variety of 
future technologies which are based on radical changes in the direction 
technology and science are going. 
	I agree with Nick that the important point about technology is 
consistency. Current technology should not be lost without a darn good 
reason, and there should be reasons why we have not seen effects not 
currently known to science. 
	However, I would encourage more imaginative twists to future 
technologies than the usual impossibilities of FTL, fusion, anti-grav, etc. 
Miniature black holes, proton decay inducers, nuclear dampers, etc. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kim                    | "All the world will be your enemy, Prince with
jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu | a Thousand Enemies. And if they catch you, 
Columbia University         | they will kill you."       - Watership Down
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc