From: jan@bagend.uucp (Jan Isley)
Subject: Gordon looses it big time (was Usenet Culture, Part 2)
Summary: Gordon's tenuous grip on reality slips another notch
Keywords: projection, denial, paranoia, tantrum, childish, delusion, whine
Organization: This space for rent.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 03:01:41 GMT

I apologize for the length of this but sometimes you have to face up to
psychodrama bullshit and call it what it is.  If you are not interested
in the continuing story of Gordon Van Huizen's tenuous grip on reality
as it slips further from sight, skip it.

As Grace Slick would say, It doesn't mean shit to a tree.


Let me introduce a new acronym, HTNW, how the net works.

gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen) writes:

[ Gordon's line length edited for the readers convenience ]

>I received a piece of e-mail regarding this issue from one
>individual that, aside from one or two lines, was two screenfulls
>of insults and barbs.

That would be me.  It was a response to his email which was a response
to a post I made... did you get all that?  In a previous post, I wrote:

 | ksdavis@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Karleenus Schwartz Davis) writes:
 | >
 | >Since you, Gordon, ... as someone who knows both how the net works  
 |...
 |
 | Best laugh I've had in weeks.

Anyone who *does* know HTNW that has been following this mess could
have made the observation that Gordon does not know HTNW.  By his own
admission, Gordon is new around here and does not yet know HTNW.
It follows that Karleenus's comment was funny.

Well, Gordon took serious offense, thought it was a cheap shot 
and sent me email saying so.

I told Gordon that it was painfully obvious that he did not know HTNW.
I did not expect it to be a shocking revelation.  Further, I said that
he was being quite belligerent in his refusal to accept reasonable
arguments from those who did know HTNW (not me!).  And, yes he should
shut until he did more homework if he wanted any credibility.

It was the same good advice that others have offered in response to any
number of his *many* posts.  That my statements were insults and barbs
is debatable, and not relavent.

>It included a "humorous" reference to "breaking my fingers to keep
>me from typing for awhile". This person in the same letter claimed
>that *my* posts were  belligerent and that I should "shut up".

I said:
 | Yes, it was really necessary.  Maybe it kept me from taking a
 | contract out to have your fingers broken to keep you from typing
 | for a while.  Many people thought it was pretty damn funny.

I heard a joke on the radio and the punchline made me think of dear
Dave and Gordon.  I happen to think it was funny, you don't have to.
Gordon did not think it was funny.  I apologized to him 3 times.
That he chooses to not accept my apology is his personal problem.
That he chooses to post a whining diatribe about it, well that is his
personal problem too.  And his ulcer.

My point was, and still is, that before Gordon continues to demand
that something be changed, he needs to learn a lot more about that
which he makes demands of *first* and yes he should SHUT UP until
he does so.  Remember boys and girls, he freely admits that he does
not understand that which he demands we change for him.

>I was so amazed by this that I thought I'd foot a long distance
>bill to see if this person was the same over the phone. After 14
>years in the computer industry I've learned that how people behave
>via e-mail and over the phone can be very different.

After 36 years of interacting with people I have learned that when
you have more emotion than logic and reason invested in proving your
point, the first casualty is your sense of humor, reality follows
close behind.  I do not mean to imply that Gordon ever had a sense
of humor or a grasp of reality.  I do not know, but it could happen.

[ COMPLETE divergence from reality of phone conversation deleted ]
[ Gordon, that means that I think what I deleted is either not   ]
[ relevant or is too damn ludicrous (or untrue) to respond to    ]

Gordon, you did not call up to discuss issues with me, you called
to harass me, whine a lot and call me a few names.  Amazed my ass.

You did:
.  accuse me and other net gods of trying to bully you into submission

[ Gordon says I am a net god, can I have cabal decoder ring now? ]

.  claim *personal harm* from the renaming of *your* newsgroup
.  claim *many* people suffered similar *personal harm*
.  blame "me and my kind", whoever we are, for said harm even though
   I did not vote and I posted nothing about it until Dave Hayes...
.  claim your defense for insulting Chip and general ignorance of HTNW
   was that you, Gordon;
     "read an awful lot of stuff, it is just too overwhelming
      and how can you be expected to remember it all anyway"
.  CONTINUOUSLY whine, ending every argument you could muster with,
   "you are just a cruel bully, how dare you be so cruel"

Gordon, if it is too overwhelming, that should tell you something.

I have apologized 3 times for my "cruel" joke about breaking your
fingers.  Give me a break (pun intended).  Are puns okay?

>I sincerely hope that this kind of viewpoint isn't prevalent.

Again, the viewpoint you attribute to me and our conversation
is *not* the reality of my viewpoint or my conversation.

Elvis lives, Elvis lives, Elvis lives, Elvis lives, Elvis lives,  
Elvis lives, Elvis lives, Elvis lives, Elvis lives, Elvis lives.

Damn, saying it ten times does not make it so.  Maybe 100 would...

>I can't in good conscience subject people in my company and my
[ blah, blah, blah, boring, blah, blah, blah ]

Good, problem solved, pull the plug.  So long.  Thanks for all the fish.

>But the unfortunate thing is that a lot of people like us *need* Usenet. 

Right.  I can think of a few things you *need* more than usenet.

>This person also indicated that I'd mistaken Usenet for reality,

Yup, I said that.  And your point is?

>claiming all this is in "fun".

Nope, not quite what I said.  Not even.

>This implies to me that this individual feels that Usenet is  
>a game or sport, and that the object is "to win".

An implication on your part does not constitute reality on my part.
To imply feelings from things that I did *not* say takes a big leap.

Gordon, look up the words, projection, denial and paranoia.
If you don't grok those, try tantrum, childish and delusion.

>Well for a number of people this is very "real". Usenet for us
>isn't and end in itself but a vital tool.

Sorry to hear that.  If rec.music.synth is a tool vital to your
personal well being and your company's survival, then change the
bloody name.  Get with the program or eat dust.

>We got onto the net not for a playground or a place to flex our
>muscles and sharpen our wits, but as a place to obtain information. 

Are you insulting me again?  Or are you implying that I have
the muscle and wit needed to keep you from getting information?
Or that I am trying to do so?  Or that rec.music.whatever is
not a playground?  What are those voices saying to you?

[ blah, blah, blah, guidelines, blah, blah, blah, deleted ]

>What DOESN'T seem valid are people that are doing this for "sport"
>and will protect their "club" from invasion at all costs.  

The only person I see "doing this" for "sport" is Dave Hayes.

Despite the fact that no one is "doing this", when you actually
learn what those documents say that you claim to have read, when you
understand how and why things have worked in this "club" for years,
when you learn a few of those elitist ins and outs that no one has
documented, maybe do some documenting yourself instead of insulting
those who have, when you stop marching about with grand ignorance
telling everyone to sieg heil because it's not fair... 
Try that line again.

Hmm, full contact usenet, now that would be a sport!

[ blah, blah, blah, sincere motives, blah, blah, blah ]
>... and to not support this sporting "survival of the fittest" mentality

Think of it as evolution in action.  (I love these SF quotes)
The lowest common denominator is not progress, it is DEVO.

>(and I'm trying to be very polite here). 

Polite is not:
  Hammering away to change something that you do not understand
  Harassing people on the phone, even if they are a cruel bully
  Stomping your feet and playing fast and loose with the truth
    because someone doesn't say how high when you say jump

Get down off of the cross, Gordon, someone else needs the wood.

Stick this :-) anywhere it makes you feel better.
Or as they say in San Francisco, take it to the bridge.

Newsreader tip of the week:
^k
/From: *gvh@metrosoft\.com/h:j
:wq
-- 
If you choose not to live with reality,  \\  Jan Isley (404)434-1335
reality will come and live with you. - me \\  gatech.edu!bagend!jan
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