From: stephen@orchid.UCSC.EDU (x4604 (Hauskins))
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics,misc.legal
Subject: Re: "Monsters Among Us", Frontlines, November 10, 1992, PBS
Date: 13 Nov 1992 18:31:58 GMT
Organization: Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: orchid.ucsc.edu

In article <Bxny3z.Aww@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> kellmeye@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (kellmeyer steven l) writes:
>mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
>
>You both seem to agree that child molesters are bad.  You disagree about
>whether homosexuality is also bad.  Why is your judgement on homosexuality
>superior to his judgement?  Society used to ban homosexuality and child
>molestation.  Now you are working to make sure it only bans child 
>molestation.  Perhaps the child molesters will work to make sure they are
>also socially acceptable and your words will be viewed as bigoted by
>a later generation.  Will that make child molestation "right" and "good"?
>

>The term itself is, of course, a value judgement that NAMBLA would object
>to.  If Hillary Clinton and our lawyer elite succeeds in making child
>divorce legal, as they have made great strides towards, how long will it
>be before a "mature" 12-year old decides to divorce his(her) parents and move
>in with his(her) 34-year old molester?  When it is legal, who can complain?  
>Will *you* complain? 
>

Yes- and Bush and his rightwing cohorts will leave all of these childern where
they belong- mentally and physically abused by 'bad' parents. I think this 
cases simply makes a statement- child do not need to be left in abusive situations
and if the social structure cannot protect them, then maybe the judicial branch
can.

>You dislike the idea that society may proscribe homosexual activity because
>you engage in homosexual activity.  Too damn bad.  There is action which,
>no matter how pleasant it may be to the actor(s) involved, should not be
>allowed in a society.  
>

Yes and I remember that African-Americans could not use the same restroom or
drinking fountains or schools as white people did. Your argument process lacks
the ability to construct anything meaningful. Oh it is just too damn bad that
society says you can't be or do this.  Boy I would love to know if you ever
have childern- and one of them turns out to be gay and when they go up and
accept themselves, someone comes along and says 'You are trash, evil, garbage
and don't deserve to live'- then they kill themselves.  Would you be happy???
You great society will have done its duty... right?


>Steve Kellmeyer
>-- 
>
>Steve Kellmeyer 
>kellmeye@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu

So what is your point Oh Great One!  You make the statement that one of the
two previous posters is trying to make a superior judgement- what do you call your
statement above- 'There is action which,no matter how pleasant it may be to
the actor(s) involved, should not be allowed in a society.'

Therefore how do you get off saying that one is making a statement about a 
superior judgement.

The point is that gay people are here, have been here, and probably will be.  If
two adults decide that they want to be together, then there is nothing morally
wrong with that.  It all lies within the eye of the beholder. I could come up 
with list of things that 'straight' people indulge in and should possibly be
outlawed...

Now let's get one thing very clear-

There is no relation between a child molestor and a gay person, unless they happen
to be a child molestor.  There is no relationship between a child molestor and
a straight person, unless they happen to be a child molestor.  You see everyone is
who they are, if they choose to do things which are out of bounds that is no
reflection on whether they are gay, straight, bi, or asexual.

Society has held many beliefs that were and are wrong.  We need only use a few
examples that point to groups of people that have been treated incorrectly because
of their religion or skin color or politics. 

It takes time to bring new ideas into systems that are very rigid in the socialization
process.  Look at the Church of England- they are now considering the entry of
women as priest, and why shouldn't they- do men have some corner on the God Market?

Get with it, start thinking for yourself, you probably know gay people right now
and don't even know it.  Maybe they're even close friends.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.elections,alt.rush-limbaugh,talk.rumors,alt.activism