From: john@johniac.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Subject: Re: separation of church and state
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 17:39:38 GMT
Distribution: tx
Reply-To: johniac@hwperform.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti)
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstation Division, Austin, TX

In article <1992Jul21.043640.25767@sneaky.lonestar.org>, gordon@sneaky.lonestar.org (Gordon Burditt) writes:
|> How about all of the values in the State and Federal criminal codes?

For one thing they aren't "values", they're laws.  Do we need to teach
the penal code to elementary school children?  Read on.

|> To that we can add some values that apply to the time spent in school
|> (these are probably taught but not enough):

Your list is composed of rules, not values.  I have no problem with
rules that help to maintain order.  A value, in my definition would 
be something like "cheating is wrong".

|> No cheating on tests.  (Teachers get to set the rules for what is acceptable 
|> 	and what is cheating on a given test, e.g. open-book vs. closed-book)

"If you're caught cheating on a test, you'll get a zero, because it
will be assumed that you don't know the material."

|> No weapons in school.  (Someone has to define "weapon" but guns, bombs,
|> 	and certain kinds of knives qualify.)

This sounds nice, but the only way you know if somebody brings a
weapon to school is if she tries to use it, and then it's too late.  I
don't know of any solution except permanent expulsion if you're caught
with a weapon.

|> No cutting class.

This is unnecessary.  A kid who doesn't want to be in class is just
going to be disruptive.  The school is better off not enforcing this,
and leaving it up to parents to enforce.

|> Wait your turn to speak in class.

This is a reasonable rule for maintaining order.

|> No smoking, drinking, or taking drugs (except by doctor's prescription)
|> 	in school.

This is unnecessary, except restricting smoking in buildings, as it
affects others.  The same should apply to teachers and administrators
if it applies to students.  Other types of drug use are not the
school's jurisdiction.  If a student is being disruptive, then you
throw him out for being disruptive.

|> No fighting in school (classes in boxing, wrestling, etc. being an
|> 	exception).

No fighting in class.  Fighting during recess should be ok if it's
consensual.  It's going to happen anyway.  Teachers should protect
students from getting beat up by bullies.

|> Learn to get along with people of different sexes, religions, races, gang
|> 	affiliation, sexual orientation, and ethnic backgrounds in school.  
|> 	These differences are not an exception to the "no fighting" rule.
|> 	You don't have to approve of them or their attributes, but you
|> 	do have to get along peacably.

This sounds nice, but it's impossible to enforce "getting along"
without being a LOT more specific.

|> No sex in school.

I don't see why not, as long as it's not disruptive.

|> No abortions in school.

Kids don't generally perform abortions on each other, so this is just
plain silly.  If there was an in-school clinic, I think abortions in
school would be acceptable.

-- 
John Iacoletti    IBM AWD Austin    Internet: johniac@hwperform.austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
     "Faith:  not *wanting* to know what is true." - Friedrich Nietzsche