From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: Gay Homophobia (was Re: Too straight looking to be gay???) (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:46:29 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.



(me)
>Yeah, the old "therapist" line again.  You folks really lean on this
>one when you're out of ideas, don't you?  

(vanyel)
/No; I think that comes up when one of us sees that's what's really needed.

I was not aware that I was in the presence of so many qualified 
psychiatrists.  

Although I suspect that the local "net shrinks" are a little
closer to the Soviet-style shrinks; anyone who disagreed with their
political gospel was also "obviously" mentally disturbed, since the truth
of socialism was also plain for *everyone* to see . . .


(vanyel)
/Counter-question (I'll try to use one-syllable words so you understand it):

My, how generous.  Who volunteers to lend Al a hand with the spelling
of these one-syllable words?



(vanyel)
/ T/F The "negative stereotype" is the product of the people of that
/ repressed minority.

So you think that closeted gays are responsible for the negative
stereotypes that society has of gays?  

Explain to me how people can simultaneously be in the closet and also 
parading around in drag and leather. Also explain to me how the 
Closeted Gay Conspiracy (TM) got ahold of the political machinery 
and the media and have twisted both of them to their evil designs.

This should be interesting.



(me)
>2.  T/F  Bizarre behavior is a effective recruiting tactic to get
>         invisible members of a oppressed minority group to become 
>         more visible.

(vanyel)
/T/F "Invisible" members of this "oppressed minority" would feel comfortable
/becoming "visible" only if they have, within their own ranks, a smaller
/oppressed minority, creating by an intolerance toward those who act
/different.

If that were the case, then all the closeted gays that (you say) feel
superior to the drag queens wouldn't hesitate to come out.  After all,
they would have their required "smaller oppressed minority" (drag / leather)
to feel superior to.  Since that isn't the case (the closeted ones
aren't coming out in droves), I guess that pretty much torpedoes
your theory, doesn't it?




(me)
>4.  T/F  When a group shows a chronic unwillingness to submit its beliefs
>         to examination, testing, or debate, said group is most likely
>         a religion and not a political movement.


/(vanyel)
/I would suggest looking in a mirror on this one. . . .

Not necessary.  soc.motss is as far as I have to look.

Do you ever actually ANSWER any questions?  Or is witty repartee the
only substitute you can concoct?


(vanyel)
/Not if they bring the kind of hate you advocate.

Your problem is you think that anyone who opposes your methods must
invariably hate you.  I'm sorry your childhood was so bad. 

Also, I have edited the half a dozen baseless accusations you have made 
about hate (approx. 50% of the fluff of your post, I might add).
That way I only have to say it once:  this isn't about
hate.  I don't hate these people.  This is about the most effective way
to obtain the stated goals.  



(me)
>There are a lot more now (due to AIDS, mostly), but really, considering
>how large a community we are, we have a blight of positive models.
>How many bad models / public figures do we have?  A hell of a lot more.

/(vanyel)
/What defines a "bad model"?


A public figure that no one wants to emulate, or where emulation of the 
figure causes derision and a loss of respect.
Newsgroups: soc.motss