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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 01:26:56 -0400
From:         CXLNVD@RITVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Second-stage problems in conversation

Omer states:

>1. Those rare conversations which I could follow are SOOO BORRINNNGGGG.
>   People take so long to make a point.  When I follow conversations with
>   help, the helper also summarizes to me the more interesting points so
>   it doesn't seem to be boring.  But when I can follow a conversation
>   at real time (e.g. when there is an interpreter around), it is boring.
>   Did anyone else encounter this phenomenon?  How are you coping with it?

My response:

Even as an oral deaf adult (altho I'm bilingual in ASL and English
and bicultural in both deaf/hearing worlds), I find the same phenomenon.
I find that 90% of conversations between hearing people are just "blab,
blab" (no offense to those here) and I consider them just "space fillers"
and I think that's probably because hearing people want to avoid 'pregnant
silences.'  ;)   I see a lot of interaction between (when as an observer
with an oral/sign interpreter present) hearing people in general, so I
think those 'boring' conversations are just idle gossip, to make
one's presence in the room comfortable, non-threatening as possible.  Have
you ever been in a library and someone comes in the room, and *they* always
look at you as if to say "hello" and because it's a library, they WANT to
talk with you?

When I find myself in an elevator going up or down longways, and there is
a hearing person together with me in the same elevator/lift, I wonder if
I am supposed to say something innocuous like "nice weather we are having,
aren't we?" just to 'kill the space.'

>2. Even when I can follow a conversation, I miss those signals which
>   human beings seem to be using to allow someone else to say something
>   AND to listen to him.  So I sometimes find myself at the ridiculous
>   situation in which I follow a conversation among two or three persons,
>   have something to say but unable to get their attention and say it.
>   When I say something, it is by taking one of the conversants aside
>   (figuratively speaking), telling him my piece and letting him repeat
>   the piece to the other persons.
>   This happens under those (not frequent) circumstances when the usual
>   deafness-related barriers to may participation have been weakened.

Interesting, I think those 'signals' occur when the person listening to
the other person... let me call them A and B.  From my perspective, and
from reading linguistic texts, there is an imperciptible 'question' stress
towards the end of the words that A is saying, and person B senses this
as a conversational "say something to tell me that you're with me so far"
and B can say "hmm-mmmm" or "I see, yeah, go on.."

I find this phenomenon in my deaf oral friends.  It is considered OK (in
hearing culture terms, that is) to 'interrupt' the other in talking
at the same time.  I find myself talking to my deaf oral friend while he/she
is talking, just to add my assent or surprise, etc.  When I 'interrupt'
an ASL signer or an ASL deaf person is following my conversation (if its PSE)
that ASL person interprets my 'talking at the same time' as a sign of
rudeness whereas, in fact, it is *not* because it's part of hearing
culture.  The first time it happened to me, my deaf ASL friend was pissed
off at me for 'interrupting' her and it took a long time for us to discover
what the problem was.  I honestly didn't realise that in Deaf culture (i.e.
in ASL culture) it is considered inappropriate and rude (as if you are NOT
listening to what I am saying/signing) to 'interrupt' or even mention/sign
anything during the time your deaf person is signing to you.  Rather like
the taboo on interrupting someone in a TDD conversation.

>3. And one more question:  are there any 'third stage' problems of which
>   I am not aware, and will encounter if and when I solve the 'second
>   stage' problems?

Good question.  I'm not at this third stage problem myself, yet, but perhaps
the 'cultural taboo breaking' as I just described in #2 above is one of
the third stage problem.

Chris Lehfeldt
cxlnvd@ritvax
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