HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf)
Newsgroups: alt.california
Subject: Re: relocation
Date: 17 Nov 92 10:44:44 GMT
Organization: School of Mathematics, University of Bath, UK

In the referenced article, carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:
>>Well, pusuing policies that have dumped thousands of people
>>out of work (as Bush has done) isn't exactly humanitarian, is it?
>
>The problem here appears to be that Burdorf uses "fascist" as a general-purpose
>pejorative.  He is, indeed, apparently ignorant, of the actual definition of
>the word, if nothing else:
>	Fascism:  a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts
>		  nation and often race aboce the individual and that stands
>		  for a centralized autocratic government headed by a
>		  dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation,
>		  and forcible suppression of opposition.
>Now, I don't recall seeing any attempts as severe economic regimentation under
>Bush, and the social regimentation he favored struck me as being far short of
>that of a fascist government.

That's debatable.  The LA riots happened, because a segment of the population
see the system as being rascist and unfair.  There is severe economic
regimentation when you look at the number of young black males that
are unemployed compared to the number of young white males.  Also, with
the steady increase of university fees, less and less people  from
working class and lower middle class backgrounds can go to university -- more
social regimentation.

The rich have gotten richer and from the middle class down people
have gotten poorer.  Economics is used to supress people.

The support of the contras was an autocratic move as was arms for
hostages.  Congress was subverted and the system of checks and balances
was thwarted.  If that isn't dictatorial what is?

Likewise, people on the right are always calling people that are
even slightly left of center communists, so I think that it's
perfectly reasonable to return the favor and call people that are
right of center fascists.  I particularly remember Jesse Helms
calling Walter Mondale a communist during the 1984 presidential
campaign.  Likewise, Jane Fonda has often been called a communist
even though she is a part of the "privilaged" class.
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: alt.california
Subject: Re: Term Limits, NOT (was Re: relocation)
Date: 18 Nov 1992 20:25:56 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Nov18.083743.760@pro-palmtree.socal.com>, markp@pro-palmtree.socal.com (Mark Panitz) writes:
>I too voted againt term limits cause  it takes time for a new sentor
>(ie Diane and Barbara ) to get  more "power" than 2 years, althought
>they still could run via write in campains

It might come as a surprise to you that Sentors serve six-year terms.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
From: mfrancis@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (Ma. Elena Y. Francisco)
Subject: Re: Northern California
Reply-To: mfrancis@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 01:41:39 GMT

I liked the area around Crescent City and Klamath.  My (ex-)boyfriend
and I spent some time in those areas, admiring the majesty of the
Redwood trees and just the general peacefulness of the area.  It
made me feel that if I ever were to settle down in  California, it
would be in that general area.  It seems so much nicer than Southern
California (where I'm from)

The youth hostel in Klamath was a great place, too.  Overlooking
the beach ... even when you eat dinner in the dining hall, you
can see a nice sunset.

Great place ...


--
==============================================================================
Lyn Francisco, First Year Graduate Student      |"There is no power stronger
Brandeis University, Dept. of Chemistry         | Than gentleness of heart."
BitNet:    mfrancis@brandeis.bitnet             |
Internet:  mfrancis@binah.cc.brandeis.edu       |          -- Jose Mari Chan
==============================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.california
From: mason@lclark.edu (Paul Mason)
Subject: Re: Favorite part of los angeles
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:06:20 GMT

In article <1ejb1tINNe5a@news.aero.org> wae@aero.org (William A. Emanuelsen) writes:
>In article <1992Nov20.032048.8744@reed.edu> pbray@sloth.Reed.Edu (Peter Bray) writes:
>>
>>where is your favorite place in L.A.?
>
>The La Brea Tar Pits.  It was the first "attraction" I went to after
>moving here.  I had read about them as a child, and always wanted to
>see a sabre-toothed tiger fossil.  They exceeded every expectation I
>had.  I didn't know some of the pits had water in them, with
>gas bubbles coming up to the surface!  Tar seeping up through the
>ground in the surrounding parkland!  Bubbling tar, big
>plaster enclosed blocks excavated from pits laying in the museum,
>waiting to be dissected.  All right in the middle of a sprawling metropolis.
>-- 
>William A. Emanuelsen    I degaussed my girlfriend and I'm
>wae@aerospace.aero.org      just not attracted to her anymore.

I visited the La Brea Tar Pits on a family vacation when I was a child.  It
was really cool.  But when my sister and I went rolling down a grassy hill, 
she got tar stuck in her hair.  It was very messy and difficult to get out.

Paul.
-- 
Paul Mason.
Newsgroups: alt.california
From: CSMSETS@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject: Re: Favorite part of los angeles
Date: 23 Nov 92 13:26:30 PST

In article <1eqcqeINNc0r@gap.caltech.edu>,
carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) writes:

>OK, now you've challenged me to get the Tommys argot right.  Here's my best try
>(please bear in mind it's been over ten years since I've been at Beverly &
>Rampart)
>
>Hey you fuckin' four-eyes asshole.  You want some food, or are you just
>pullin' your pud?  No jalpenos you woos!  Here:  Eat his you pussy-eater!
>
>Note:  None of the above is part of my normal language.  It's just what you'll
>run into at the corner of Beverly & Rampart (at least if you look like someone
>from Caltech).

But Carl,
   Where can you be served by a Somoan casher while a one eyeed guard
looks you over with his hand on his gun? and you have to eat standing
up in a parking lot on a 4x1 nailed to the outside of the
"restaurant's" storeroom. Sure you can go to Spago's, or Traider Vic's
but Tommy's doesn't require a tie.....
         --Ed
From: markp@pro-palmtree.socal.com (Mark Panitz)
Subject: Re: Term Limits, NOT (was Re: relocation)
Organization: The Palmtree BBS - 310/453-8726 - Santa Monica, CA
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 14:45:35 GMT

Not all Sentours do, I think Diane will have to run again in 2 years( or
its that 4 years?) (since she 'replaced' John Seymor who was appointed by
Gov. Wilson who was a sentor.
,
From: judson@watserv.ucr.edu (Mike Judson)
Newsgroups: alt.california
Subject: Re: Northern California
Date: 23 Nov 92 01:29:26 GMT
Reply-To: judson@watserv.ucr.edu

In article <1992Nov23.005136.1817@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  
scasburn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven M Casburn) writes:
> 
>   Paul Mason writes:
> >Let's have more bay area and northern coast stories.

I live in Marin County (go to school in Southern California) and I must
say, in a biased opinion, that I have seen nothing in Southern California
which can compare to the entire Mount Tamalpais region.  Phoenix Lake,
Lake Lagunitas, and the other lakes create an environment which is so
enjoyable and peaceful.  Having gone to high school at Marin Academy and
having run around the lakes for cross country practice, I can say that
there is no better place to take a stroll, or a run than at Mt. Tam.

--
"It takes a big man to cry.
but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man."
				Jack Handy


judson@watserv.ucr.edu
Newsgroups: alt.california
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Favorite part of los angeles
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 23:00:39 GMT

In article <1992Nov22.220943.14816@netcom.com>, foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye) writes:
> 
> Geez! In a city that has Cassel's and Jody Maroni's, In 'N Out and
> Tommy's are the best we can do?

  But Tommy's is not about food; it is about tradition, a rite of passage
(exactly what passes is left as an exercise to the reader). Where else
can one find so many people lined up for a sure case of either myocardial 
infarction or drive-by shootings? What other explaination could there be?

> BTW, it's kinda hard to identify one's favorite place in LA-- because LA
> changes so much! Personally, I like Beverly Blvd between La Brea and
> Fairfax, downtown around Union Station, Phillipe's and Chinatown and
> Studio City along Ventura Blvd. I guess if I had to choose ONE place,
> it would be any Trader Joe's.

  My favorite part of LA is the northbound side of I-5 at Fort Tejon.
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
From: mike@inti.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: alt.california
Subject: Re: relocation
Date: 21 Nov 1992 00:47:18 GMT
Organization: N.I.C.E.
Reply-To: mike@inti.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.82

This is clear as mud to me; but that's a Wittgensteinification
I'm familiar with from other encounters. Nevertheless,

Don Steiny writes:
>[The] question of what words refer to concerns most philosophers these days.
>The most widely held theory is that they do not refer to anything.   

>	This is perhaps not easy to understand at first glance.  However,

Too rite.

>We can all see her birthmark, but we cannot see her "envy."   We might
>see behaviors we interpret as envy, but we cannot see the envy itself.

"Examine this lovely scarf ladies & gentlemen... nothing up my sleeve...
Voila!"

>	If we ask "to what do the words 'political spectrum' refer?"  The 
>answer would have to be "nothing."   We can see behavior, and if we have
>been trained well, when we see one behavior we can say "right wing" and
>if we see another behavior we can say "left wing" like trained pigeons,
>but we cannot see a "political spectrum."  But there is no guarentee 
>that any two of us so trained would raise the same wing for the same behavior
>if we had been taught by different pigeon trainers.

Well, to what end is all of this?  It seems to me that you are
bashing the bejayzus out of a metaphor, using irrelevant objection
(such as, apparently, it's not a material entity), & perhaps 
expecting more out of it than can possibly be hoped for. Maybe
it's a lousy metaphor.  Another poster gave some examples where
this metaphor wouldn't work well -- at least, to a certain class of
people.  But anyway, you go on in a way I don't quite follow to:

>	A "political spectrum" is just catagories some people choose 
>(I don't think you have a choice yet), to use.   The catagories are not
>the stuff.   Catagories can be useful to organize, communicate, and 
>predict, but they can also fail at their task.   Since they are simply
>observations about the world and not the world itself we can use them or
>discard them at will.

 ...
 
>	But why bother?    If you call Reagan a fascist, or you call Reagan
>a socialist, what have you done?   Nothing.   You are just being a trained
>pigeon. 

I'm having a certain amount of cognitive dissonance here; I cannot
reconcile these 2 paragraphs.  On the one hand, you say categories
are useful to organize & communicate &c. I heartily agree; if I didn't
have any shorthand for some things, I'd never get anywhere.  Thank
God for hi level programming languages, &c.  But on the other you
say, if you call N category M, you haven't accomplished anything.
Which is it?  Or how do you stitch this together?  I don't get it.

Incidentally, what is a "trained pigeon"?  One can see a pigeon,
I guess, but how do you see "trained"?  I expect you agree these words
have no meaning.

Philosophically yours,
==mwh
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: alt.california
Subject: Re: Favorite part of los angeles
Date: 23 Nov 1992 10:46:38 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <29Xx03Wubdmx00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com>, grjost@uts.amdahl.com (Garrett Jost) writes:
=carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) writes:
=
=>In article <24054@galaxy.ucr.edu>, judson@watserv.ucr.edu (Mike Judson) writes:
=>>In article <92325.144055JA6769A@auvm.american.edu> JA6769A@auvm.american.edu  
=>>(Juan T. Avecilla) writes:
=>>> My favorite place in the LA area which I miss has got to be any In and Out
=>>> Hamburger drive thru! I don't know about you, but here in DC, nothing comes
=>>> close to their double-double with grilled onions.
=>>
=>>Oh yes, I must whole heartedly agree with you.  I love In and Out.  I live
=>>in the Bay Area and go to school in So. Cal., but there is nothing like
=>>In and Out in the Bay area. :(
=
=>Naw, In 'n Out just doesn't cut it.  If you want a REAL burger, go to the
=>Tommy's at Beverly and Rampart.
=
=Oh no!  Not another In 'n Out vs. Tommy's debate!  Personally, I prefer
=In 'n Out when I go down to L.A., but to each his own.
=
=Garrett
=
=[ These are my opinions and do not reflect the opinions of my employer. ]
=

OK, now you've challenged me to get the Tommys argot right.  Here's my best try
(please bear in mind it's been over ten years since I've been at Beverly &
Rampart)

Hey you fuckin' four-eyes asshole.  You want some food, or are you just
pullin' your pud?  No jalpenos you woos!  Here:  Eat his you pussy-eater!

Note:  None of the above is part of my normal language.  It's just what you'll
run into at the corner of Beverly & Rampart (at least if you look like someone
from Caltech).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
From: mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf)
Newsgroups: alt.california
Subject: Re: relocation
Date: 23 Nov 92 13:56:05 GMT
Organization: School of Mathematics, University of Bath, UK

In the referenced article, carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:
>In article <1992Nov20.110910.9551@gdr.bath.ac.uk>, mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf) writes:
>>>>Take an introduction to political science class.
>>>
>
>Wrong, jackass.  

Grow up.


>Trying to cram everything into a single dimension is
>absolutely stupid.  The only people who do that are those with an axe to grind
>and who which to obfuscate real issues, or those just too bloody stupid to
>realize that other people may not be sheep.  For example, please place the
>following positions on your "political spectrum" (I'm using issues from the
>most recent U.S. elections for examples):
>	1)  Pro-choice; in favor of affirmative action; in favor of reduced
>	    goverment spending to reduce the deficit;
>	2)  Pro-choice; in favor of affirmative action; in favor of increased
>	    taxes to reduce the deficit;
>	3)  Pro-choice; against of affirmative action; in favor of reduced
>	    goverment spending to reduce the deficit;
>	4)  Pro-choice; against affirmative action; in favor of increased taxes
>	    to reduce the deficit;
>	5)  Anti-choice; in favor of affirmative action; in favor of reduced
>	    goverment spending to reduce the deficit;
>	6)  Pro-choice; in favor of affirmative action; in favor of increased
>	    taxes to reduce the deficit;
>	7)  Anti-choice; against affirmative action; in favor of reduced
>	    goverment spending to reduce the deficit;
>	8)  Anti-choice; against affirmative action; in favor of increased taxes
>	    to reduce the deficit;

You're oversimplifying and you know it.  Where do these people stand
on national Health care, public housing, public education, funding
for research?  

>Now, tell me, turkey, 

I had it with you asshole!  Just Fuck off and die!  
Organization: Masters student, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.california
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:06:44 -0500 
From: Marcy L Nathenson <mn27+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Cupertino CA--I'm relocating

This is an appeal to anyone living either in or near Cupertino.  A
native Pennsylvanian, I'm going to be living there from Jan-July, doing
an internship at Apple.  I know little to nothing about the area, where
to live, what to do, etc.

ANY information would be greatly appreciated!!!

Marcy
Newsgroups: alt.california
From: danco@titan.ucc.umass.edu (DANIEL F COHEN)
Subject: Re: bringing rental car to mexico
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:29:46 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.001314.27118@news.mentorg.com> philip@mentorg.com (Philip Peake) writes:
>In article <Bxt70M.2Bp@news.chalmers.se>, d8ahlcr@dtek.chalmers.se (Christopher Ahlberg) writes:
>|> 
>|> And number 2, I would like to take my rental car into Mexico for a while.
>
>Every car I have ever rented in the US has had a clause in
>the contract specifically forbidding taking the car into
>Mexico.
>
>Philip

I seem to remember from my border-hopping days that there were exactly two
companies in San Diego that specialized in renting cars for use in Mexico.

Among other things, Mexico had (and probably still has) a law requiring all
cars to have insurance with a Mexican company. Cars with US plates and no
windshield sticker from a Mexican insurer used to be stopped routinely in
Tijuana and Encinada.  Hertz et al don't really want to mess with this sort
of thing.

Anyone in the SD area know the names of the companies that rent for Mexican 
use?

--Dan
From: Darren.Hanson@f271.n103.z1.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: alt.california
Subject: Community College Fees for Spring
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
Date: 22 Nov 92  20:33:00

Reply-To: darren@ofa123.fidonet.org

ostubble@agsm.ucla.edu (Otha Stubblefield III) wrote:

 > I saw this notice at West Los Angeles College, yesterday,
 > announcing the new fees structure for Spring 92.  This was
 > also reaffirmed by a bulletin for the LA Community College
 > Instructional TV Program that charges the same fees.

 > *  There is no longer a flat fee after taking a certain number of
 >    units. Before, there was a flat fee ($60) if you took 10 or
 >    more units.  This is no more.  Your fees will strictly be X * the
 >    number of units you are taking, plus special campus fees (see below).
This is part of CA's new budget.

 > *  If you DO NOT HAVE a bachelor's or higher degree, you pay $10/unit.
So is this.

 > *  If you HAVE a bachelor's or higher degree, you pay $50/unit.
And this. However, it applies to anywone with the requisit units
even if they never received a degree. Also, there are exemptions
provided for certain unemployed workers, some re-entry students
and recipients of certain types of government aid. Those eligible
for exemptions will pay the $10/unit instead.

 > *  If you are classified as a non-resident of California,you pay $123/unit.
This apparently vaires from district to district. The Coast Community College 
District in Orange County, has fees of $104 for non-Californian, American
students and $107 for non-US citizens.

 > Beginning in Spring, the LA Community Colleges (West, Southwest, City,
 > East LA, Valley, Pierce, Mission, Trade Tech and Harbor) will begin
 > charging a mandatory $7.50 health insurance fee.  The flyer that I saw
 > stated that waiving this fee would only be based on finanacial need,
 > and no mention was made about your having other coverage.  This fee is
 > already in effect at El Camino and Santa Monica (I think), and my friends
 > that go there have said they had to pay it even though the had other
 > coverage.
A "Student Health Services Fee" has also been in effect in the
CCC District for at least 8 years now. It is $7.50 and is waived
only for people who receive BOGG grants, are enrolled solely in
classes of two weeks duration or less, or who can PROVE that they
"depend solely on prayer for healing in accordance with the
teachings of a bona fide religious sect, denomination [or]
organization." After talking with the Dean of Administrations at
one of the campasus, it has been made clear that the "sect,
denomination, etc" has to FORBID use of techniques other than
prayer in healing or the fee will have to be paid anyway....

Then there is the required photo ID card and the "optional" College Services
Charge. I put "optional" in quotes because if you don't pay the fee, you can't 
preregister for classes and are effectively treated as a new student every
semester making it all but impossible to get any classes....
--
__                 __
\/  Darren Hanson  \/

Reply to "darren@ofa123.fidonet.org" if you want it to arrive!

---
Newsgroups: alt.california
From: news@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca
Subject: fear and loathing
Organization: McGill University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 22:37:46 GMT

could someone tell me how many copies of "fear & liathing in las
vegas" does the university of nevada at las vegas hold?
please reply to mc.bnev
From: mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf)
Newsgroups: alt.california
Subject: Re: relocation
Date: 23 Nov 92 15:31:50 GMT
Organization: School of Mathematics, University of Bath, UK

In the referenced article, steiny@steiny.com (Don Steiny) writes:
>
>a trained pigeon is not too bad.   Trained pigeons do not have a lot of
>variation in their behavior.    However, from what I know of fascists,
>I have not seen Bush exhibit the actions that would make him analogous
>to Musollini.  
>

I guess that means that you've got to "exhibit the actions" of the pope
to be a Catholic -- pretty flawed logic.
Newsgroups: alt.beer
From: robl@macro.viewlogic.com (Rob Limbert)
Subject: Re: Cask Ale; Thomas Hardy
Originator: robl@macro
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:43:20 GMT


In article <1ebqblINNjbi@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joel Plutchak) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov17.201506.7336@viewlogic.com> robl@macro.viewlogic.com (Rob Limbert) writes:
|> >   Out of curiosity, why (unless you're using the purist definition whereby
|> >a Pilsner must come from Pilsen) would calling Sam Adams Lager a Pilsner
|> >be inaccurate?
|> 
|>    Just 'cause I like to quibble.
|> 
|>    Seriously, though, a lager is any ol' bottom-fermeted beer.  US
|> megabreweries aside, a pilsner is a super-premium lager which is
|> light (in color) and is characterized by a flowery hop aroma
|> and a dry finish (according to Jackson).  Being from Pilsen
|> helps. :-)
|>    Does Koch actually call his lager a pilsner?  I wouldn't put
|> it past him, but it doesn't seem one to me.


   I don't think he does, though it wouldn't mean that much by itself if he
did (I like Sam Adams, but I get a bit tired of its 'Best Beer in America' 
pitch). But Michael Jackson calls Sam Adams a Pilsner (in 'The New World
Guide to Beer'), and I think Sam Adams meets all the criteria you list above,
as well as having a gravity and strength around that of a classic Pilsner. 
It's not from Pilsen, but nobody's perfect, except maybe Pilsner Urquell :-).

   No point in beating this too far, especially since the definition of
Pilsner can be fuzzy in places, but I think Sam Adams can legitimately
be called a Pilsner without loosening the definition too much.
   
Rob