HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: studier@ninja.life.uiuc.edu (Jim Studier)
Subject: Re: more ??'s re. psychiatric drugs
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 21:13:39 GMT

RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg) writes:

>I'm concerned because she seems to be using this sudden burst of energy as an
>occasion for making a number of important life-decisions, which I think she is
>rather ill-advised to make in this state.  Not to play "armchair doc" or
>anything, but does it kinda sound like her current meds may have induced a
>manic phase of what might be manic-depressive illness rather than simple
>depression?

>Ruth Ginzberg <rginzberg@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
>Philosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA

  Not to play "armchair doc" or anything but it sure as hell does sound like
a manic episode.  When this happened to me I understood the risks
because it had happened to other family members.  In my personal opinion
this situation justifies some meddling especially if she is making
decisions that she may deeply regret later.  The best thing would be
to try to reason with her yourself and get her to consult her doctor
and tell him/her about these symptoms, as you have done already.
Sometimes a lower dose can stop
the mania and sometimes another drug must be tried.  I would tell her
that if antidepressants can make her high there is an excellent chance
that some adjustment can be made that will get rid of the depression
without the risks of mania.  In the long run she will realize that
mania is a nice place to visit but not a place to stay.   
  Since you already know her well enough to find out all this stuff 
you shouldn`t have to worry about expressing your concerns to her.
Trust your instincts.  If you think the situation is getting out
of hand you might consider talking to a family member or even her
doctor.  The family member might not know what is going on and might
be grateful for the help. Good luck.

   Jim Studier (studier@ninja.life.uiuc.edu)
From: kudzu@netcom.com (Michael Sierchio)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Circumcisions as Medical Fraud
Keywords: circs
Date: 24 Nov 92 03:27:42 GMT
Organization: True Love, and Home-Grown Tomatoes

In article <1992Nov23.184040.6082@spdcc.com> 
	dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>It's really hard to discuss this topic on sci.med; too many men are
>still "attached" to the foreskins they had taken from them as infants. :-)

In Asia Minor, there are *four* claimants to the title of Church of the
Circumcision -- each of which has a holy relic that is supposed to be --
you guessed it.  Well, maybe after the loaves and fishes biz...

sci.what?
-- 
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  Michael Sierchio                          1563 Solano Avenue, Suite 123 |
|  kudzu@netcom.com                                Berkeley, CA 94707-2116 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: summers%sanctum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Jim Summers)
Subject: Re: Circumcision as Medical Scams
In-reply-to: jgnassi@athena.mit.edu's message of Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:34:05 GMT
Organization: U of Utah
Date: 23 Nov 92 16:48:22


   In article <1992Nov23.135825.21939@ms.uky.edu> jrt@omega.kcr.uky.edu (J. Randall Thompson) writes:
   >I would suggest you keep your comments to things that you are knowledgable
   >about and keep the things you "heard from a hospital" to yourself. Your
   >vehemence makes me wonder if you were circumcised against your will as
   >a baby? It seems that there are more important issues in life right now...

   I guess you've must not have paid much attention to the circs you've
   witnessed then.  Every child I've observed during circumcision made it
   load and clear that the procedure was being done against his will!
	John Angelo Gnassi                 Lab of Computer Science


The same thing can be said about childbirth.  Or bathing a child.  Or
making them eat healthy food.  This is a stupid point, and doesn't
apply to the argument.  It seems that both sides of this issue have
starting to get that religious fevor we all know and love (though to
be fair, the anti-circumcisions seems to be screaming loulder).  YOU
don't have to have YOUR children circumcised.  Get over it.

LostBoy
jim


Newsgroups: sci.med
From: dks@sr.com (Dave K. Sprow)
Subject: Re: Summary of evidence for homeopathy
Reply-To: dks@srhqla.UUCP (Dave K. Sprow)
Organization: Silent Radio, Los Angeles
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:52:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.212916.8813@samba.oit.unc.edu> Kirk.Smith@launchpad.unc.edu (Kirk Smith) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.211637.29491@sr.com> dks@srhqla.UUCP (Dave K. Sprow) writes:
>>Ok, let me say I don't *know* homeopathy works but I had the flu last
>>week and bought a flu hom. remedy that's been on the market for years.
>>It's a weird name that I forget how to spell, starts with an Occ I think.
>>
>>Anyway, I took the stuff as directed as was over in within 24 hours.
>>
>>Now, I know this doesn't prove anything.  You could say, well it couldn't
>>have been the flu then or it was a minor bout or whatever. And all that
>>could be true.  I do know how sick I felt before I started taking it,
>>and when I felt *that* bad with the flue before, it never went away 
>>that quickly.  And it couldn't have been placebo as far as I know, 'cause
>>I don't see how a placebo effect could amke the flu go away.  I feel like
>>I'm going to die when I have the flu.
>>
>>David S.
>>
>>
>
>This reminds me of a gal I met that didn't understand a thing about why
>one should finish all of their antibiotics.  She said that she always
>bought them in Mexico, and whenever she gets a cold, she starts taking
>PCN, and lo and behold, the cold is over within a few days!  She then
>stops the antibiotic.
>
>When I told her that most of us don't bother with antibiotics for the common
>cold, and that our colds are over in a few days too, she was dumbfounded.
>I then tried to paint a picture of the end of the world as we know it
>because she's serving to produce antibiotic resistant bacteria.
>
>-ks
>
>--
>   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
>     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
>        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
>           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80

Like I said, I have never been that sick one day and ben over it the next,
Plus, through experience, I know what the flu feels like for me. It's
distinctive from any other "bug" I ever had.

David S.


Newsgroups: sci.med
From: chorley@vms.ocom.okstate.edu
Subject: Alt. to allopaths and homeopaths
Organization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 04:04:15 GMT

I wonder just how you would do a double blind study on homeopathic remedies,
since, to my mind, the homeopathic regimen gives infinitesimally small doses of
whatever is attacking you.
	It would be of academic interest to study using radiolabelled
homeopathic medications in rats or mice, not to see where the ingredients end
up, but to see how much remains inside the bottle/syringe.

	I would like to remind you all that one out of ten "conventional"
doctors is not an allopath, i.e. he or she is an osteopath and is trained not
only in doing what allopaths do, but also to do what chiropractors do (and do
it better {  I'm biased 8-) } ) with the underlying scientific knowledge that
chiropractors just seem to lack (Ask ANY of the chiropractors in our school who
are learning to be D.O.s )

	Being a student at an osteopathic school is a challenge: we take the
same licensing boards as the M.D.s as well as our own. We have to chart our
path between wholly allopathic regimens and wholly manipulative regimens. We
have to avoid the lunatic fringe on both sides as well as justify our
profession to the ignorant, as well as those who would view us as something
"less" than an M.D.
	I would therefore suggest to those who disdain allopaths and ordain
chiropractors, their better selection would be an Osteopath.

	I am sorry, but I had to get this off my chest!!!!!8-)


David N. Chorley, Physician in training
From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Toothbrush sterilizers any good?
Date: 21 Nov 92 15:19:47 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

In article <1992Nov20.221147.10972@netcom.com>, sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:
> In article <1992Nov20.034751.23333@athena.cs.uga.edu> mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) writes:
>>
>>Hmmm... if toothbrushes need sterilizing, why not dunk 'em in rubbing
>>alcohol?  
>>
> Hmm.  How about whiskey or gin?  Be a bit more tasty than isopropyl
> I would think.  :-)

How about EverClear, the backpacker's favorite?  Basically pure grain alcohol
with a little mint extract thrown in.  There might not be quite enough alcohol
in whisky or gin to kill everything.  Would go better with toothpaste, too...

David Nye
nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu
From: cindy@berkp.uadv.uci.edu (Cindy Windham)
Subject: Re: Circumcisions as Medical Fraud
Newsgroups: sci.med
Organization: University Advancement, University of Calif., Irvine
Keywords: circs
Date: 23 Nov 92 23:13:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.213502.4916@ms.uky.edu> jrt@omega.kcr.uky.edu (J. Randall Thompson) writes:

>In article <gdavis.722200408@griffin> gdavis@griffin.uvm.edu (Gary Davis) writes:

>[...stuff deleted about the evil forces inducing parents to circ children...]
>>
>>As far as the hygiene issue goes its more difficult for a kid to wash
>>his face than penis,yet we still see circumcision advocated for hygiene.
>>
>>Its largely done from conformity and out of ignornace.
>>--
>>I               Gary Davis Dpt. of Electrical Engineering
>>                University of Vermont

>As the father of two circumcised boys (the last 6weeks ago) you might
>be interested to know the cost was $60 - hardly a money maker for the MD.
>Also, the choice *is* a personal decision for the parents to make;

>If you have kids, you should know that getting them to was their faces
>(as with any part of their bodies) is next to impossible.

>-- 
>[]  J. Randall Thompson                                      jrt@kcr.uky.edu []
>[]  University of Kentucky, Lexington, Kentucky                              []

As the mother of two boys, I know that getting them to wash their faces
_may_ be next to impossible, but getting them to wash/touch their penises
(pl?) is not.
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Mercury fillings
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:08:15 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1992Nov16.204738.9931@netcom.com> sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:

>
>You're giving the impression that you don't read very well.  I
>didn't specify anything.  I asked a favor, and it certainly
>wasn't an unreasonable one.  
>
I suppose I thought it was an unreasonable one.  We have too much
of this whining when the free information people give doesn't
come in the form you want.  No one is entitled to any free
information here.  If you don't like someone's post, then
why not just skip it instead of flaming them?  I just thought
it was rude to yell at Dave for "not answering the question",
so, true to form, I was rude back.  Dave's too much a gentlemen
to flame back.

>
>If you've got one of those versions of rn that require more lines
>of followup than quoted text, you needn't send blank lines in order to
>defeat it.  Hint:  the filter counts lines that begin with
>">" characters.

Hitting extra <CR>s is easier than globally replacing all the > with
: or |.


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: mmatusev@radford.vak12ed.edu (Melissa N. Matusevich)
Subject: Re: Circumcision as Medical Scams
Organization: Virginia's Public Education Network (Radford)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 02:36:28 GMT

I, for one, have seen a circumcision performed and I almost
threw up. It is a disgusting, barbaric procedure which is
unnecessary and painful. There can be no justification for
routine circumcision.
-- 
                     Melissa Matusevich          
                 mmatusev@radford.vak12ed.edu
From: doyle+@pitt.edu (Howard R Doyle)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Circumcision...
Date: 24 Nov 92 01:14:00 GMT
Organization: Pittsburgh Transplant Institute

:GD>Subject: Circumcision as mutilation
:
::...but the foreskin obtained is an invaluable source for fresh and
::healthy fibroblast cultures!
:
:::-), Carl.
:
:: * OLX 2.1 TD * The penis mightier than the sword.
:
:If Carl is serious,this may be a good indication of why we need more
:women in medicine. Sensitivity seems to be a pratical impossibility
:for the majority of male MDs.
::                                                        

:I               Gary Davis Dpt. of Electrical Engineering
:                University of Vermont



In many ways, this has been an amusing thread.
And I keep telling myself "This has got to be the dumbest thing anyone can
say." But Gary, you keep proving me wrong.

============================
Howard Doyle
doyle+@pitt.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski)
Subject: Re: Myopia
Keywords: Myopia, lenses, close work
Organization: The Information Deli - via Netcom / San Jose, California
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:23:57 GMT

In <1992Nov16.195854.2329@draper.com> storch@draper.com (Joel Storch) writes:

>It seems that the opthomoligists are mainly concerned with eye disease and
>not preventative measures against myopia. My optometrist's suggestions
>make sence to me: Be careful not to focus in on close objects for
>prolonged periods of time, look up periodicaly and focus on distant
>objects. Do not use the full correction for close work.

You'd find reading about the Bates Method interesting.

You might try "The Bates Method For Better Eyesight Without Glasses", by
W.H. Bates for the general ideas.

It's a bit obtuse, though (at least in its currently revised state) -- for
practical exercises and information, you can try "Natural Vision
Improvement", by Janet Goodrich.  NOTE: The presentation style in this book
will be too New Age/alternative/cutesy for some readers here, though the
information is still useful.

Other related reading (which I haven't seen):

  "The Art of Seeing", Aldous Huxley.  Montana Books, 1975.

  "Sunlight Could Save Your Life", Zane Kime.  World Health Publication.

  "Applied Kinesiology, Basic Procedures and Muscle Testing (vol 1)", David
  S. Walther.  Systems DC, 1981.
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: dsonntag@cc.utah.edu
Subject: President-elect Clinton and Health-care reform
Organization: University of Utah Computer Center
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:55:03 MDT

TO:     Clinton-Gore Committee (CLINTON-GORE-DOM)
        112 West Third Street
        Little Rock, AR 72201

        Domain Name: CLINTON-GORE.ORG

        Administrative Contact:
        Krause, Bill  (BK87)  billk@CLINTON-GORE.ORG
        (501) 372-1992
FROM:   David M. Sonntag, MSPH
SUBJ:   An open letter to President-Elect Clinton:

CC:     Cross-posted to several internet Lists, usenet groups, local
        papers, several special interest groups in the .org domain,

Mr. President:

I would like to congratulate you on your victory in the recent election.
While I did not vote for you, I, like many in the country, feel hopeful
that your administration will indeed bring new ideas, and with them,
new changes.  Change does not come easily.  It requires all of us to
commit ourselves to do what we know is right for the country.

You have spoken of the need to reform our health-care system, and I 
sincerely hope that your administration will be able to do so.  

I am an Industrial Hygienist, working to prevent occupational and 
environmental health hazards from causing unnecessary burdens on 
our human and economic resources.  In my daily work, I constantly 
strive to minimize workers' exposure to toxic substances in the 
working environment.  And yet, the same workers will go on break, 
and light up their tobacco, exposing themselves and others to 
levels of carbon monoxide, benzene, and many other toxics, at 
levels well in excess of what the Occupational Safety and Health
Administration has established as working Permissible Exposure 
Limits (PELs).

Thus, I was deeply troubled when I saw a picture of you playing golf 
with a cigar between your teeth.  Sir, I believe that you can offer 
a wonderful role-model to our nation, and the world, by publicly 
commiting to quit smoking.  If more people would quit smoking, 
the savings to our health-care system would be immense.  I believe
that your public example would be an important statement from your
administration that would reflect highly your commitment to 
make positive changes in our healthcare system.

I look forward to your acceptance of this challenge.

Truly,

David M. Sonntag, MSPH (MS, Public Health)
Clearfield, Utah
Organisation: European Space Operation Centre (E.S.O.C)
Date: Friday, 20 Nov 1992 11:06:43 CET
From: <RFLOOD@ESOC.BITNET>
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Myopia (and now Bifocals)
 <1992Nov17.183714.40225@watson.ibm.com>

I put off having bifocals  for years becoz 'only old folk wear them' and
all those horror stories 'bout how hard they are to get used to....well,
about three months ago I got my first pair AND THEY ARE GREAT ! I got
the sort with a sharp transition between the lenses (which IS visible)
and I'm having no troubles at all in using them.
Give it a try, you'll like it !
RaF
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: jrt@omega.kcr.uky.edu (J. Randall Thompson)
Subject: Re: Circumcision as Medical Scams
Keywords: med
Organization: Kentucky Cancer Registry, Univ. of Ky
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:58:25 GMT

In article <gdavis.722473307@griffin> gdavis@griffin.uvm.edu (Gary Davis) writes:
[.. stuff deleted...]
>And by the way, in Kentucky the circs are done by green interns
>to get snipping experience so one hospital told me. Maybe thats why
>the fee of 60 bucks is cut rate?!
>
I'm sorry, but I just have to respond to this crap.
Have you ever seen a circ? I doubt it. There is very little 'snipping'.
A metal ring is placed around the head of the penis on the inside of
the foreskin and another metal ring is placed on the outside. These two
rings are tightened together and the tissue in between them is severed.
Some additional trimming may be needed with a scalple or scissors. It
takes longer to strap the baby into the "papoose" than to do the procedure.

FYI, Kentucky is no different than any other state in the USA. There are
teaching and non-teaching hospitals - If you are at a teaching hospital
you certainly could have students, interns residents, fellows, etc
involved in your care. Frankly, there is not too much to a circ - a first
year medical student could easily do it with direction. I have no problem
with physicians (or other health care workers) in training working on
my family as long as they are appropriately supervised and doing "things"
that are appropriate for their level of experience/training. A circ
certainely fits in this category.

BTW, our circs were done by the OB; not that it matters, I'm pretty sure
he did it since I was in the room for the procedure ;)
I believe in most places the pediatritians do the circs.

I would suggest you keep your comments to things that you are knowledgable
about and keep the things you "heard from a hospital" to yourself. Your
vehemence makes me wonder if you were circumcised against your will as
a baby? It seems that there are more important issues in life right now...

>
>I               Gary Davis Dpt. of Electrical Engineering
>                University of Vermont


-- 
[]  J. Randall Thompson                                      jrt@kcr.uky.edu []
[]  University of Kentucky, Lexington, Kentucky                              []
Organisation: European Space Operation Centre (E.S.O.C)
Date: Wednesday, 18 Nov 1992 14:57:46 CET
From: <RFLOOD@ESOC.BITNET>
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Wisdom Teeth
 <Bx9qxw.52L@hatch.socal.com> <17469@pitt.UUCP>
 <1992Nov14.210407.23152@athena.mit.edu>

I had my lower two (impacted wisdom teeth, that is !) done in a UK hospital
about 20 years ago, and the upper two out in the dentist's chair. I woke up
from the hospital operation feeling happy &high as a kite (they used diaprazime
as the *anasthetic*), little swelling or discomfort (despite a 1.5 hour
operation involving cutting the jawbone away on both sides) and was eating
ice cream and apple pie an hour or so later.
On the other hand, the uppper two were extracted under a very short general
anasthetic - took about ten minutes -  but I felt weird for days afterwards.
Valium/Librium in high doses seems to be the way to go !

RaF
From: turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Hippocratic Oath  (was: Can't Touch This)
Date: 20 Nov 1992 12:48:26 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: peaches.cs.utexas.edu
Summary: How does it apply?

-*----
In article <7056.466.uupcb@travel.com> carl.camurca@travel.com (Carl Camurca)  writes:
> Isn't there the Oath of Hippocrate ?!?  Sue the Doctor!!!

It is not clear to me how the Hippocratic Oath applies to this
circumstance.  Regardless, Carl Camurca's suggestion that a
doctor can be sued on its basis is pretty silly.

  o  The law does not bind physicians to the Hippocratic Oath.

  o  Not all physicians swear to the Hippocratic Oath.

  o  Given that the traditional Hippocratic Oath is given to 
     some Greek gods, it is not clear to me how a physician
     who is not pagan would morally view it.

  o  Not all of its admonitions are broadly approved by people
     today.

> Angry, Carl.

And silly.  What a combination.

Russell
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: mdiffin@crc.ac.uk (Dr. M.C. Diffin)
Subject: Weil's Disease
Organization: MRC Human Genome Resource Centre
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:28:29 GMT

I'm looking for some info on Weil's Disease (leptospirosis).  The
beastie responsible is usually transmitted by rat urine such that
certain people (vets, fishermen etc) are more at risk.  Recently it was
put to me that a vaccine is available for high risk groups, but I havn't
heard of it.  Has anyone else?

Thanks
-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
Michael Diffin
JANET: mdiffin@uk.ac.mrc-crc    PHONE: +44 (0)345 333111 Pager No. 0406653
INTERNET: mdiffin@mrc-crc.ac.uk, mcd12@phx.cam.ac.uk
Newsgroups: sci.med