HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jmilhoan@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (JT)
Subject: Re: neuromancer the movie?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 18:20:40 GMT

In article <92283.092306BDA108@psuvm.psu.edu> <BDA108@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>A few years ago I read in a magazine that Neuromancer the movie was being made.
>Has anyone else ever heard about this and if so what happened to it?  Movie lik
>e Lawnmower Man prove that you can do kick ass virtual reality graphics in a
>
>movie.  Now's the time if ever to make such a movie.

Mr. BDA108, I do hope you have donned your asbestos suit.

I hear flames a'roarin'!

JT

Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk,alt.industrial
From: joemac@eff.org (KSC)
Subject: Re: "WAX OR THE DISCOVERY OF TV AMONG THE BEES": PLAYDATES
Followup-To: alt.cyberpunk,rec.arts.sf.movies,alt.postmodern,rec.video.releases
Organization: The Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 15:51:31 GMT


If you have not had the opportunity to be WAX'ed I suggest you go and see
it or even better send David Blair a check and get your own copy.

WAX is mind-candy, a truly psycedelic experience.  It's the type of trip
that begs to be taken again and again.  I hope it becomes an inspiration
for and defination of a new genre in video.


                I G N O T U M  P E R  I G N O T I U S                     
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: tordm@vana (Tord G.M. Malmgren)
Subject: Re: REQUIRED READING: B. Sterling
Reply-To: TordM@VanA.PhySto.SE
Organization: Department of Physics, University of Stockholm -- Sweden
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 09:58:54 GMT

In article <BvIH8u.26s@cda.mrs.umn.edu>, carlsoje@cda.mrs.umn.edu (Joel E. Carlson 1625773) writes:

>No god, no country, no king, just a bunch of freaks linked up in love!

 this is all hippie and jolly fine, but I'd suggest "hatred" in there
aswell and "missuse" -- just check out some "cyberspace" things such
as BITNet Relay or InterNet Relay Chat, which both are a primitive
models of "cyberspace"; lots of freaks linked there, they love and hate,
and some people called operators act like police, king, queen or god even...

 so, basically, the way cyberspace will be is just the way society is,
I think, with police, rules and regulations, courts and everything, a
pretty non-anarchistic and non-foul language place. Obey them rules or
you'll get cut-off and no more semi-society drug for you...





---------------+--------------------------------
 Tord Malmgren | InterNet: TordM@VanA.PhySto.SE | These opinions are my OWN,
               | BITNet  : TordM@SESUF51        | and NOT of this department!
---------------+--------------------------------
 Department of Physics, University of Stockholm
From: Mitchell.Porter@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Mitchell Porter)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Obscure question
Keywords: Kibo
Date: 15 Oct 92 04:10:37 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

Some time ago I read a book review of a novel (by Walter Jon Williams or
Michael Swanwick, maybe?) in which there was a character who downloaded
or otherwise transferred his personalityto a world network. That
description could fit any of a dozen novels... but in the one I'm thinking
of the character's name was something like KIBO. Does this ring any bells?
 


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: pvanheus@frodo.cs.uct.ac.za (P A van Heusden)
Subject: Anger in Cyberpunk
Summary: In Neuromancer etc. There's no Anger!?
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 07:15:11 GMT

My background in Cyberpunk is far from complete: The only CP I know is
Gibson's Neuromancer, Count Zero, etc series, Burning Chrome, Walter John
Williams' Hardwired, and John Brunner's Stand on Zanzibar. (Although Brunner
is not true CP IMHO)

What I've found strange about all these authors is that while there is much
activity towards freedom, in fact the protagonist is often on a freedom trip,
though most often freedom through escape into a medium such as the Net or
being jacked into a panzer, there is little anger. Like, noone is standing 
there and saying 'Fuck the Corps!'. I wonder why? The prime emotions seem to
be the burning aesthetic of Tech, and the cold sadness of defeat. This pattern
occurs in both Neuromancer and Hardwired. Basically it is the up and running
cowboys, burning around the galaxy of burnt out has beens. Again - sadness,
no anger. Why? I sure am angry at the corps, at the people who are screwing
our world so drastically. Sure, I love running through the Net as it is now, 
the sheer adrenaline rush of having the Net as an extra sense, but that's not
the be and end all of life. Anyway: Has anyone else noticed this pattern, and
does anyone know why it is so?

Peter


--
*******************************************************************************
Peter van Heusden              "The extreme always makes an impression"
CS2, UCT, Cape Town, RSA             J.D. - Lethal Attraction 
pvanheus@frodo.cs.uct.ac.za
From: 00vmszopa@bsu-ucs.uucp
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Oliver Stone as CP filmmaker
Date: 9 Oct 92 11:47:10 GMT


	After watching _Wall Street_ again tonight, I wonder if
Oliver Stone isn't the cyberpunk film representative: jumpy, intoxicating,
often brilliant, and suffused with paranoia.  He examines the constructions 
(which we hold dear) that obscure truth in insidious ways.  He's irate 
about Vietnam, JFK, greed, artifice and deception; he manages to be both
savvy enough to grab media-savvy audiences and direct enough to deliver
powerful messages to us cynical masses.  His characters usually end up losing
everything but a sense of what it takes to keep their personal integrity
(or just their own skin) alive.  Jim Garrison is nearly destroyed in _JFK_
mainly by shadowy forces controlling the media firmament.  His stories are
both inspired by and then inspire real events (as CP technological ideas have).
The current Joint Resolution in Congress to release the Kennedy assassination
files was aided by Stone's movie much as "cyberspace engineering" conferences
were moved to design tech to resemble a certain book. 
	The difference here is that Stone _intended_ to bring the future
closer to home.
	Near the end of _Wall Street_, when the union reps are confronting 
Gekko and when Bud takes his licking in Central Park, we actually believe 
that these people would stand up to his power -- even though the scenes are
so theatrical they should be on stage. 
	This kind of emotion in the midst of a successful movie about cynicism
from a supposedly cynical "left wing" director -- the ironic and moving 
juxtaposition of stark human feeling and the sea of precision spun image, 
well, in a word, it's CP to me...

-------------------------------------------------------------------
00vmszopa@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu     Ball State Univ.       Vinney Szopa
When data is transmitted by mucous, your modem will be your nose.

	"Reality is what remains when I stop believing in it."
		--Philip K. Dick
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: kinsler@newton.physics.uq.oz.au (Paul Kinsler)
Subject: Re: The *best* person to read _Agrippa_ aloud
Organization: Physics Desert, The University of Queensland
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 23:10:40 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.214937.6179@athena.cs.uga.edu>, houk@athena.cs.uga.edu (Joshua Houk) writes:
|> In article <1bevanINN184@iskut.ucs.ubc.ca> turkel@unixg.ubc.ca (Bill Turkel) writes:
|> >
|> >The *best* person to read _Agrippa_ aloud would be
|> >	Jim Carroll
|> Nah... Hunter S Thompson. For sure.

 -< WARNING: gratuitously silly comment coming up >-

Without fear of no contradiction, I am prepared to say that the best 
person to read _Aggroper, the book of the dick_, by W. Gibbons, would 
be Marilyn Waring, feminist and ex-MP of the NZ Parliment, and writer 
of columns in the "Listener" which were usually accompanied by a 
cartoon with goats in.
-- 
+soluble fish+
"It's hollow, it goes on forever, and ... my God, it's full of shit!"
(apologies to ACC)
From: jessec@yang.earlham.edu
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: gibson/"virtual light"?
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:09:28 GMT
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana


   Does anyone know anything about a William Gibson project that was 
talked of last year (or was it two years ago?) called "Virtual Light"?


   --Jesse.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The double integral stood in Etzel Olsch's subconscious for the method of 
finding hidden centers, inertias unknown, as if monoliths had been left 
for him in the twilight, left behind by some corrupted idea of 
"Civilization," in which eagles cast in concrete stand ten meters high at 
the corners of the stadiums where the people, a corrupted idea of "the 
People" are gathering, in which birds do not fly, in which imaginary 
centers far down inside the solid fatality of stone are thought of not as 
"heart," "plexus," "consciousness," (the voice speaking here grows more 
ironic, closer to tears which are not all theatre, as the list goes on...) 
"Sanctuary," "dream of motion," "cyst of the eternal present," or 
"Gravity's gray eminence among the councils of the living stone." No, as 
none of these, but instead a point in space, a point hung precise as the 
point where burning must end, never launched, never to fall...

				--Thomas Pynchon
				  *Gravity's Rainbow*
From: jessec@yang.earlham.edu
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Review: Hacker Crackdown
Date: 17 Oct 92 02:00:58 GMT
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana

In article <1992Oct16.005009.11342@crash>, andym@crash.cts.com (Andy 
Micone) writes: 
> Adding no less to the sense that the  events of the book occur
> in some kind of hyper-reality is Sterling's own style and  background
> as a Cyberpunk author. It is his background that both strengthens and
> weakens the book. 

   Sounds like you maybe have a case of hyper-vocabulary? Hyperreality, as 
I understand it, is a term from postmodern crit, where it has a very 
different meaning.  Perhaps you were trying to find a neat-sounding 
synonym for "virtual reality".

> Sterling argues that Cyberspace is here, now in the
> form of internet and other similar  networks. It's very compelling to
> look at "The Net" as some brave new frontier, but  Sterling tends to
> stretch the credibility of the notion to the breaking point.
> For  example, he goes as far as to describe our nation's old
> telegraph wires as "Primitive  Cyberspace." 

   Perhaps you are thinking of "cyberspace" as some sort of video game, as 
it appears to be in so much of the knockoff c'punk fiction.  I don't think 
that's the way Sterling conceives of the term.

> 	On the factual side, Sterling shows great promise. It first must
> be allowed that this  is the first non-fiction work by Sterling,

   No, it's not.

> and you do get the sense that he is uncomfortable  writing outside a
> fictional framework. 

   On the contrary-- I haven't found this book yet, but I've read many of 
Sterling's essays on history, technology, literature, and other cultures; 
they are without many exceptions extremely intelligent, displaying an 
incredibly wide range of knowledge, and written with a finesse I almost 
never see in his fictional works.

> Is Sterling's book, The Hacker Crackdown,
> a blueprint for the future, or is  Sterling just beating a dead
> cyber-horse? Read the book and decide for yourself.

   My gawd.  Could somebody use the prefix "cyber-" in yet a more cutesy, 
meaningless way? I think we really need to milk new language for all its media 
value before disposing of it.

   As I say, I haven't read Sterling's new book yet, but just on the basis 
of this review, I'm tempted to assume that it's characteristically 
brilliant stuff, and that you came to the text laden down with so many 
media buzzwords and hey, cyber-stereotypes!  yeah!  that you didn't 
really *read* it at all.  Your review style reminds me of *Newsweek*.


   --Jesse.
From: mcramm@dct.ac.uk (McRamm)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Sneakers Press Pack - info request
Date: 13 Oct 92 11:48:50 GMT
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology

Forgive me is this is turning into a FAQ.

There was a feature on Sneakers on UK TV last night (no debates please - I've
seen the thread and don't want ot restart it).

Anyway, they gave quite a lot of time to the press pack (disk). Does anyone
know where I can obtain copy of this either by snail-mail or ftp?


-- 
 Angus M. Marshall, MCRAMM@UK.AC.DCT,amarshal@uk.ac.dund.mcs, (+44 382) 308600
".. and in the grove, by gate and hill, midst  merry  throng  and  market
clatter -  stood  the  Hall  of  the Mountain Grill, where table strain'd
'neath loaded platter " (from the legend of Beenzon Toste - Hawkwind)      
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: sokay@cyclone.mitre.org (Stephen J. Okay)
Subject: Re: U2
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 22:55:42 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.205950.26640@news.ysu.edu> ag625@yfn.ysu.edu (George M. Gruschow) writes:
>
>-- 
>Call yourself a true magician eh? Answer me this:
>	Have you ever logged on the Internet,
>	From your calculator?? 

Close....I used a 95LX with a modem over a SLIP connection to get there....
(Truth!)

---Steve
-- 
Stephen Okay  sokay@mitre.org
"You see, I'm kind of this control freak who likes to create his own
personal hells before the real one can get to him. I like to beat hell
to hell so to speak".--Spalding Gray "Monster in a box"
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox)
Subject: Re: beyond _MIRRORSHADES_
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 04:48:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.145407.1@hamp.hampshire.edu> dcohan@hamp.hampshire.edu writes:
>btw, Mr. Maddox, i liked your _snake eyes_ story, but was disappointed in the
>ending.  out of curiosity, did you have any other endings in mind for George 
>Jordan?

	No.

	Though I should know better than to ask such questions, what did you
find disappointing in that ending?




-- 
				Tom Maddox
		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
		"The Reptoids eat humans like we eat chickens."
				Alex Alexander
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: c9221777@cc.newcastle.edu.au (Brother Redeye)
Subject: Shadowrun (Re: The Borg and Cyber-posesurs)
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 15:18:16 GMT

In article <Ien8FV600WB=R7umUg@andrew.cmu.edu>, Patrick C Leger <pl1u+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> Yeah, the technology alone doesn't equate to cyberpunk...It's the atmosphere
> and the attitude.  It's really irritating when I see shit like Shadowrun, where
> no explanation of cp is given, and no credit given to those who defined the
> movement.  As a result, there are gobs of people out there who do think it's
> just the tech and nothing else.
> 
> Most irritating.

While source material does abound for Shadowrun (if you're referring to the
RPG), my major objection to it is that the fantasy element seems to spoil the
cp atmosphere.  Vampires - fine, but I don't really want Elves and the rest of
it prancing through the chrome and steel maze of corporatized despair.  Send
them back to the forests where they belong.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All opinions expressed herein are my own and do not reflect those of the
University of Newcastle ... but then again, as I have to pay to use these
facilities anyway, who really cares?!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Send all hate mail to: c9221777@cc.newcastle.edu.au
                   or: c9221777@wombat.newcastle.edu.au
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mattb@ctron.com (Matt Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: b. sterling
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:58:23 GMT
Reply-To: mattb@olympus.ctron.com (Matt Brown)
Organization: Cabletron Systems INc.

tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox) writes:
>In article <92276.093310BDA108@psuvm.psu.edu> <BDA108@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>>bruce sterling, what a loser, he may have a cyberpunk attitude but he can't
>>write for crap.  I first read gibson's stuff then sterling and was completly
>>disappointed.  and how about "Difference Engine" i think that it could have
>>been a good book if just gibson wrote it.  I have read and will continue to
>>read sterling's stuff but only for the story his style needs a lot of work.

>	And obviously this is the person to teach him.  

>	I'm happy to see that psuvm is still maintaining its high standards.

Concerning the original post:

If I read the comment for the story rather than for the style, I would 
personally agree that I don't like Sterling's books as much as I like Gibson's,
and others. But this loser/crap stuff is way off base. I won't rehash the 
whole Gibson v Sterling diatribe, but I will say that I see Sterling coming
at his topics from a different direction or perspective. What ends up on
paper is different stylistically than what Gibson would have written. The
flaw is expecting the two to be the same. You've got to grant Sterling his
perspective before judging the work.

Then you might well trash it for different reasons, such as a personal
preference for Gibson's approach versus Sterling's, or for too much posturing
in Sterling, or for a pseudo-academic intrusive style, or whatever your
pet irritation is. (Note that I'm not saying these are peeves of mine, or
even generally true; they are just examples.) You could even say "Sterling's
perception is crap from a loser." At that point, I might even consider your
point of view, instead of laughing and hitting 'n'. But I still doubt I would
agree. 

So don't bring the discussion down to the level of "Metallica sucks! Guns N
Roses Rules!" even if that is closer to cybertalk than what usually appears
here. That stuff is no fun without edged weapons and incendiaries.

Matt
And I don't think Sterling, Gibson, or Maddox have a "cyberpunk attitude"
They recognize one when they smell it, and elaborate on it for our benefit 
(and theirs). They don't live it. But they can assimilate it and bring it to
bear in their writing and speaking.
Of course, compared to a conventional middle-american outlook, they may well
seem way out there on the edge, so go figure.
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
From: mazzucch@ghost.dsi.unimi.it (massimo mazzucchi)
Subject: INFO
Keywords: info
Organization: Computer Science Dep. - Milan University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 12:55:02 GMT


hi 

i am max from Italy Milan

 i want know the address
 of cyber-net 
 
 Thanks for your help
 
 BYE 
 
 mazzucch@ghost.dsi.unimi.it    


Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo
From: olson@dstl86.gsfc.nasa.gov (Paul Olson)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo
Subject: REQ: Is there an ftp archive site?
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:43:00 GMT
Organization: Mission Operations and Data Systems
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Can anyone tell me if there is an archive site for this group where the various
story lines can be ftp'd?

Dr. Forbin
From: houk@athena.cs.uga.edu (Joshua Houk)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo
Subject: Same Old Paradise [Part 2]
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:13:06 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens


The rain kept pounding at the windshield with unrelenting force. 
Not even the quad-blade wipers could keep up with the downpour. The
old man driving the ramshackle cab cackled.

"Shee-whee! Ain't seen a storm like this since, well... Lemme see 
here now..." The wizarded face contorted into a mockery of humanity. 
"I say it was back in '97, a'for the decade or centential er whatever 
it was called...." He relaxed his concentration only slightly as he 
drove down the intrastate, the yellow car shuddering) threatening to 
just give up and call it quits right in the midst of the squall.

Tom Bremen bolted upright from his position slumped over the dashboard, 
and cast a glance each way. In his traditional bewildered state, he 
muttered, "Wha...?"

"Eh... there was that 'lectrical storm in 2004 - whoooh boy. That
'un was a fierce baby. No rain, though, but that there squaller had
to be seen ta be believed..."

Tom stared without comprehending at the old, twisted low-class - the 
youth's eyes glazed from too little sleep. He shrugged and resumed his 
position protecting the dash.

"Got ta' witness a gen-yu-whine southern blizzard there in '82 er '83.
Y'ever seen pure white snow, boy?" The elder turned to the hitchhiker,
seeing him prone and in no mood to participate in the conversation.

"No, I'd figure not - at leas' not in Cleveland..."

------

[Yeah - yeah, there's gonna be a concrete storyline, just you wait.
 Comments are always appreciated!]

Joshua H.
-- 
houk@athena.cs.uga.edu * email for info on the rockin' indie list!
Any tie that holds can be broken to tear your bitter world to the open.
   - Sebadoh
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo
From: jani.patokallio%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Jani Patokallio) 
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo
Subject: Missed stories
Date: 11 Oct 92 22:42:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: jani.patokallio%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Jani Patokallio) 

Due to some problems further upstream, my site did not recieve any Usenet
mail in the period between September 28 and October 6, and it seems likely
that I have missed some story chapters.  So, I would appreciate it very
much if the authors could E-Mail to me any updates to the following stories:

21st Century Schizoid Man, by Mark Friedman, received up to Ch 11/21
Insanity, by David L. Wood, received up to Ch 2/?
Stimuli Unchained, by James Cook, received up to Ch 13/?
Visser Nights, by Joshua Follicks-Shields, recieved up to Ch 3/?
Any other long/complete stories posted in the aforementioned period.

Thanks in advance.

--
Jani Patokallio                  |  Why vote for the lesser of the evils?
acc1bbs!jani.patokallio@ssr.com  |  Cthulhu for president in '92!

---
 . AME 1.07 .
From: rt22@unix.brighton.ac.uk (thomassen)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo
Subject: Whats this then?
Date: 12 Oct 92 13:51:37 GMT
Organization: University of Brighton, UK

Whats is this space used for?


-- 
Richard Thomassen ( rt22 )
Univerity of Brighton

I cant mail nobody - no network access.
From: wyang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (William D Yang)
Subject: ADMIN: Re: REQ: Is there an ftp archive site?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 16:44:11 GMT

In article <13OCT199209433709@dstl86.gsfc.nasa.gov> olson@dstl86.gsfc.nasa.gov (Paul Olson) writes:

> Can anyone tell me if there is an archive site for this group where
> the various story lines can be ftp'd?

The monthly FAQ posted by Phyllis Rostykus (li@inigo.Data-IO.com, as I
recall), discusses an anonymous FTP site maintained by one Hubert
Bartell (I really hope I spelled it right) You can FTP to either
catalina.opt-sci.arizona.edu OR it's IP address, [128.196.206.60].
 
> Dr. Forbin

	-Bill
--
William D. Yang         wyang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu         Yang.25@osu.edu
It's my opinion, but if you really want it, you can have it for a nominal fee.
ObPhilosophy:  One's mind should always reach further than one's overbite.