HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: spetter@ultra.com (Scott Spetter)
Subject: Re: The best companies to work for in CS
Reply-To: spetter@ultra.com (Scott Spetter)
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 06:14:31 GMT


I think that it is extremely difficult, if not impossible to come up 
with a ranking of companies as good places to work, which will apply
to everyone at a company, during all periods of time.  

I worked for IBM in San Jose from 1984 (when I finished college) until
1988.  They gave me excellent training, the management (particularly my
last manager) was fantastic, and the assignments I got were quite
interesting.  Back then, it was still believed by most IBMers that as
long as they proved themselves competent, they had a job for life.

When I left in July of 1988 (to work for a second Fortune 500 computer
company), the main reason was my ability to get a considerable salary
boost while relocating to a less costly area.  

My second employer was not bad, but one thing I learned there was the
difference between a good company and a truly excellent company.  
For me, the main difference was IBM's dedication to full employment.

Now, friends still at Big Blue tell me how much things seem to have
gone downhill.  People are being forced out - some of whom have worked
at IBM all their lives.  It seems to be a lot more political and 
cut throat.  As a result, a lot more talented people are starting to
seek greener pastures.  

My point?  To find out how good a potential company, supervisor, or
department is, I think the best thing you can do is try to speak to
people currently in that slot.  The average employee will give you
honest answers that are far more timely and accurate than those in
books, and you will find that within the same firm, the answers can
vary tremendously.

Regards,

Scott Spetter 


-- 
********************************************************************************
*** Scott J. Spetter   UltraNet Technolgies: Billions Served - Every Second! ***
* 101 Daggett Drive, San Jose, CA 95134 USA               (408) 922-0100 X-143 *
********************************************************************************
From: kbanerje@grad01.math.ncsu.edu (Kaushik Banerjee)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Cost of Living
Date: 6 Apr 92 19:06:38 GMT
Organization: NCSU Mathematics Dept.

What is the cost of living like in Columbia, South Carolina?
Thanks for your assistance.

K. Banerjee
kbanerje@math.ncsu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: merkelb@infonode.ingr.com
Subject: Wanted -- good headhunter in Atlanta, GA area
Keywords: headhunter atlanta georgia
Reply-To: merkelb@infonode.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corporation
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 14:44:21 GMT

Posted for a friend:

Needed: Good headhunter for the Atlanta area that deals primarily with Computer
Science postitions which require extensive experience in X Window Development
(server, clients, Motif, etc.) as well as UNIX, C, and C++ expertise.

Post or E-mail responses. I'll forward the information. Thank you.

--
Brady Prentice Merkel		merkelb@infonode.ingr.com
Intergraph Corporation		..!uunet!ingr!infonode!merkelb
Huntsville, Al
(205)730-8670			Go Gators	--;==;<
From: JRL104@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: contractors: MD, VA, DEL, EASTERN PA
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:09:55 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

I am looking for contractors, and possibly headhunters in these areas.  Other e
astern locations are also acceptable.  I am seeking an entry level position and
 have a degree in Mechanical Engineering.  Any and all help is greatly apprecia
tied.  Please e-mail responses to me directly.  Thank you.
                                                    jonathan leon
                                                    jrl104@psuvm.psu.edu
Xref: sparky misc.jobs.misc:3409 misc.jobs.offered:5283
From: root@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,misc.jobs.offered
Subject: 'Official' RFD issued
Keywords: Comments? Discussion?
Date: 10 Apr 92 00:58:07 GMT
Organization: Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA

A Request for discussion was issued today according to policy. It seeks
the creation of:

       misc.jobs.entry
       misc.jobs.expert
       misc.jobs.recruit

The purpose of the new groups is to facilitate easier access to postings
targeted at specific skill levels, and to categorize postings as being
employer-direct or agency generated.

All discussions and comments should be made in misc.jobs.misc and in
news.groups ONLY.

-- 
bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us                 "...we found that in space, no one can
Bob Kirkpatrick                        hear you scream. In 1992 we find that
Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA       on earth, everyone can."   --alienIII
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Wednesday, 8 Apr 1992 16:25:54 EDT
From: <PDLBH@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: The best companies to work for in CS

What would be the best companies to work for in CS beside the traditional
IBM, Microsoft, DEC ...? I'm interested in the medium to small size companies.
Thanks,


Peter.
From: goyal@seal.janet.ucla.edu (Sameer Goyal)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: CA recruiters/headhunters
Date: 15 Apr 92 04:04:30 GMT
Organization: University of California at Los Angeles, EE Dept.

Could someone send me the names/addresses/tel. nos.
of some headhunters in CA.
Thanks in advance.

- Sameer

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: hartman-edward@CS.YALE.EDU (Edward Hartman)
Subject: Other Jobs
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 18:25:34 GMT



Say-
	I happen to be graduating with a degree in computers, but am not sure
that computers, or even science, is the job field for me. Is there a site in the
net one can search for non-tech jobs?

	-Eddie R.
From: lj359831@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Lee Jarvie)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: vote yes for misc.jobs.offered.entry
Date: 6 Apr 92 19:49:36 GMT
Distribution: all
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College


I vote a big YES.  This is one group I hope makes it.

Lee Jarvie
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com (Michael P. Deignan)
Subject: Re: CFD for misc.jobs.offered.entry
Organization: Small Business Systems, Incorporated, Esmond, RI  02917
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 03:46:15 GMT

klg@statsci.com (Kevin L. Gross) writes:

>Starting another group isn't going to magically fill it with job offers.

Bravo!

Its about time someone posted something intelligent about this whole
newsgroup.

The fact remains that whether the group is created or not, there are very
few "entry-level" jobs posted to the net, and creating a group specifically
for them will not magically make a whole bunch of postings appear.

MD
-- 
--  Michael P. Deignan                      / 
--  Domain: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com            /   I'm not a bigot,
--    UUCP: ...!uunet!rayssd!anomaly!mpd  /    I hate everyone.
-- Telebit: +1 401 455 0347              / 
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: rp@iscp.bellcore.com (Robert Pearlman)
Subject: Re: Salary Verification?
Organization: Bellcore
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 15:22:34 GMT
Keywords: salary verification

If recruitment policy were rational there would
be no desire to see your pay stubs. Welcome to reality!

On the other hand, the firm considering you for
a job hasn't promised you anything -- except
common courtesy -- so why be 
insulted if they ask?  You're still in an 
arms-length relationship.  Decide for yourself
whether you want to deepen it.

There __are__ a few reasons for these requests:

1)  The basic reason is that the recruiter
doesn't know the field well enough to judge
whether you can do the job.  (Be
reasonable -- it's not always that easy.  I hate to
disillusion you, but some applicants have
misrepresented themselves.  Really!  Some of them
very skillfully.)  The recruiter
can see what you say you did at previous jobs, but not
how well you did it, or even whether you did it at all. 
He can read recommendations,
but do the writers mean them?  At least a pay check
is a verifiable figure and your previous employer 
thought that well of you.

2)  Similarly, the company in fact doesn't know how
much you're worth to it, perhaps it doesn't even know
the customary pay scale.  The last time you called 
a plumber, how did you know how much to pay?


Good lunk, anyway!
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: dave@bradley.bradley.edu (David Vessell)
Subject: Re: recession-what recession????
Keywords: developers,jobs
Organization: Bradley University
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 20:54:41 GMT

donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) writes:

>Mind you, the job market's much worse now, than it was in 1982.  I don't
>resent the wasted months and effort anymore but I don't feel that it was
>a "character-building" period either.  It was a waste.  And if companies
>would give new graduates a chance to work, even for really shitty pay,
>I sincerely feel that everybody would be much better off.

The catch-22 is that for the average company to hire new grads, they'll
probably have to lay off more experienced workers.  They'll lose
experience, but experienced workers have this nasty habit for wanting
livable wages for their families, whereas new college grads might not know
much, but they'll work for peanuts.

The only real solution to accomodate everyone would be either to have more
jobs or fewer graduates.  Since the latter won't happen (and I'm certainly
not saying it *should* happen), and the former is hamstrung by the present
economy, things will continue to be fun (not) for everyone.
-- 
=========*davE*.....making the world safe for intelligent dance music.=========
As you're cleaning the orange carpet, you will hear a voice that says, "Fetch 
my cigarettes."  Another voice will say, "THEY'RE ON TOP OF THE REFRIGERATOR."
--(David Vessell)--(Bradley University Computing Services)-(dave@bradley.edu)--
From: mort@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Mortensen)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 09:23:40 GMT
Subject: Re: entry level blues
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc

I have found that testing can also be a stupid way to 
hire people.  Several times I have had in house interviews 
for certain jobs, and you will always have the one guy
or gal who asks some sophmore related crap which you
or no one else has seen in several years.  I am not 
talking about one question but a whole test.  They base
their whole concept of your knowhow with this test and
are mad when you do not score in the upper 80's. 
Not once did they ask about my work knowledge or performance
factors, nor did they ask about skills, additional education,
or goals.  They didn't even have the proper consideration to
write a rejection letter to all 20 of us who went for this 
job telling us that we are not qualified or fit for the 
position, and when confronted later about this fact, told
us that they where professional interviewers and where never
wrong.  

So, tests do not always tell any story of the people who take
them, normally they only show who is a good test taker.

Just a thought on interviews.
mort
From: klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee)
Subject: Re: Internships--an employers view
Reply-To: klee@wsl.dec.com
Organization: DEC Western Software Laboratory
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 18:01:14 GMT

In my experience, there are 2 kinds of summer internships:

1.  top notch grad students.  They are usually hired to solve a specific
problem that is both important to the company and is directly related to the
student's thesis.

2.  excelent undergrad students.  Companies usually don't expect these
students to really earn their salary.  Instead, they are hired as a public
relations measure, to show them the company hoping that they (and their
friends) will want permanent positions after graduation.  Of course, the
company is also evaluating you, so don't screw up, or you won't be invited
back for a permanent interview.

-- 
Ken Lee
DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif.
Internet: klee@wsl.dec.com
uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee
From: zaphod@madnix.uucp (Ron Bean)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: entry level blues
Summary: No Relevant Experience
Date: 10 Apr 92 01:56:55 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: ARP Software

kirk@tallis.enet.dec.com (Matthew B. Kirk) writes:
 
>2. What sorts of jobs have you had in the past?   For example, if all you've
>   done is work at Burger King, then you're not going to get a potential
>   employer's attention as much as someone who has two research papers
>   published.  There are enough people out there that have real experience
>   (with summer jobs, or paid research projects, or thesises), that many people
>   don't even look at new grads who don't have it.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    So, what do you do if you *have* only worked at Burger King?
Give up and go back to flipping burgers? This is not a flame;
some of us end up in this situation and just have to deal with
it, and I've never seen any really good advice on what to do
about it *after* you graduate. I basically gave up (for now, at
least) and took a job that was not related to my degree, but I'd
be interested in hearing about other strategies.
 
==================
zaphod@madnix.UUCP (Ron Bean)
{harvard|rutgers|ucbvax}!uwvax!astroatc!nicmad!madnix!zaphod
From: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Hewlett Packard response time???
Date: 11 Apr 92 00:14:42 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA

In article <1992Apr10.203833.1771@u.washington.edu> echen@hardy.u.washington.edu (Ed Chen) writes:
>
>Really?!  HP was the only company I've interviewed for that EVERY SINGLE
>interviewer (ok, except for the top level manager) gave me an technical
>exam of some sorts.  Some written, some oral.  By the end of the day (8am to
>~2:30 pm) I was exhausted!  
>
   Most companies I've ever interviewed at or worked for here in
   Silly Valley tend to have the techies grill applicants
   technically....so get used to it.  And quite often it is your
   potential fellow techies or technical leaders who will have to
   bail your buns out if you can't hack it...so they tend to be
   pretty motivated to see whether or not you have the knowledge or
   can just spell the buzzwords on your resume.

   When I'm interviewing I am interested in actual demonstration of
   ability to learn and perform.  I rarely waste my or the
   applicant's time on chit-chat that is not related to the job 
   requirements.        

   That's personel's job... >:-)

   
>It wasn't a bad experience, but I certainly wouldn't call it "pleasurable"...
>
   I found it rather enjoyable...and frankly less grilling than many
   other ones I have been on.
From: s5uagm@fnma.COM (Andrew Miller)
Subject: Re: Drug testing by U.S. government contractors
Reply-To: amiller@nmi.com
Organization: Fannie Mae
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 16:21:13 GMT

In article 25931@esds.mdc.com, bonney@esds.mdc.com (Greg Bonney) writes:
>
>If you're afraid you can't pass the test, I guess that's another matter, but
>otherwise I would suggest not limiting yourself just because of your high
>principles.

	This is the argument they will always use.  That if you are not breaking
a law, why would you mind if we take away your rights just to make sure.

	The act of taking a piss test is not that tramatic, I agree.  However, the
fact that, without any other reason for suspition, you are being required to prove
your innocence. 

	Accept the job. (We all must eat.)  Include with your acceptance letter a
letter of protest concerning the urine test. ( It isn't a drug test. They don't test
drugs, they test your urine.)   The ACLU should be able to provide references on the 
inaccuracy of urine tests.  (poor testing companies, food effect results, etc.)


				A. Miller
From: echen@hardy.u.washington.edu (Ed Chen)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Hewlett Packard response time???
Date: 10 Apr 92 20:38:33 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <180994@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
>    And HP interviews are quite pleasurable experiences...almost
>    worth going to just for the adventure.

Really?!  HP was the only company I've interviewed for that EVERY SINGLE
interviewer (ok, except for the top level manager) gave me an technical
exam of some sorts.  Some written, some oral.  By the end of the day (8am to
~2:30 pm) I was exhausted!  

It wasn't a bad experience, but I certainly wouldn't call it "pleasurable"...

						Ed
						echen@u.washington.edu
From: vrajanik@ccad.uiowa.edu (Rajanikanth Vemulapalli)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: vote yes for misc.jobs.offered.entry
Date: 6 Apr 92 08:07:35 GMT
Organization: CAD-Research, University of Iowa, Iowa City

hi
I vote yes for misc.jobs.offered.entrylevel news group.
Hope to see one soon.
-Rajanikanth
From: dianej@kona.Eng.Sun.COM (Diane Jeon)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Internships--an employers view
Date: 15 Apr 92 21:05:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: kona

I read someone's posting saying that they felt employers viewed internships
as "dime a dozen".  This is just one person's opinion, but I totally disagree.

I am a Human Resource professional.  10 years of my career were in recruiting,
both externally and internally.  I have done more interviews (obviously)
than I can count, especially during the past 5 years, when Sun was growing
faster than I could blink!  :-)

When giving consideration to college resumes, it is my experience that
what the managers I have supported looked for *was* the internship experience.
Yes, we recruit at the name schools.  Yes, I've been on campus, and some
of these folks are D--M good.  But, some of them from the local big name
schools often get beaten out as candidates by people from lesser name
schools.  Why?  The quality of the person's internship experience.  
Almost every person I have seen hired in an entry level CS job had done
one or more internships.  When we can find people who have done internships
where they did killer work in the exact areas we are looking to hire,
we are assured of an employee who can come up to speed faster than the
brightest, most talented people from the best schools  who don`t have
anything other than academic experience.  Why?  Because
they already know how to work in the commerical environment, which is
a major change from the academic environment.  You can be the best
programmer in the world, but without knowledge of product development
cycles, product teams, and getting something out the door in the commercial
environment, you are not as valuable as someone who is maybe a bit less
talented but already skilled in these areas.

Again, this is my experience and one person's opinion.  I don't speak for
my employer, nor for anyone else out there.

Diane
dianej@kona.eng.sun.com

PS PLEASDER DO NOT SEND RESUMES TO ME.  I am no longer in an employment
   or staffing depoartment.
From: helene@godot.think.com (Helene McGovern)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Mac User Support and Admin @Thinking Machines  Cambridge MA
Followup-To: helene@think.com
Date: 17 Apr 92 15:23:23
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: na
Reply-To: helene@think.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: godot.think.com


Thinking Machines Corporation is a world leader in massively parallel
processing.  We are innovative, hard-driving and growing rapidly because of the
unusually high quality of our people and our products.

The internal systems group at Thinking Machines has an opening for someone
with Macintosh experience to work in the group that supports the internal
users of Macs. Thinking Machines has 200 Macintoshes that are used
primarily by non-technical personnel.  These Macs are networked both via
EtherTalk and LocalTalk to our TCP/IP network that also supports 500 UNIX
based machines. 

The candidate should have extensive experience: using Mac applications;
installing Mac applications software; installing operating systems.  The
candidate with networking experience, particularly in a mixed UNIX TCP/IP
environment, will have an advantage.

The ability to work with users to identify and solve problems that will run
the range from user error to network failure is required.  There will be
pressure and conflicting demands.  The candidate must be able to prioritize
assignments and to use careful judgment in deciding when to seek help in
solving technical and administrative problems.

While there are no specific technical educational requirements a bachelors
degree is preferred. The more Macintosh and network experience the
candidate has, the better.  This can be an entry level position for the
person with the right blend of assertiveness, experience, and judgment.


			Please send resumes to:

			Helene McGovern, Human Resources
			Thinking Machines Corporation
			245 First Street
			Cambridge, MA 02142
			email:helene@Think.com

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin)
Subject: Re: recession-what recession????
Keywords: developers,jobs
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, San Francisco
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 19:05:13 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.191616.1049@fmrco.uucp> sy18337@fmrco.COM (Terry Traub)
writes:
>It seems to me there's an inordinate amount of complaining going on
>about "promises" and the like.  It's as though some people feel that
>they deserve nice, prestigious jobs immediately upon graduation.
>Perhaps people in engineering programs do; I don't know.  But I do
>know that in the real world you have to start small and work your way
>up.  Maybe I did it the hard way and missed something, but my gut
>feeling tells me that the hard way is the only way.

I haven't heard anyone asking for a prestigious entry-level job; the
posts I've seen have been from people looking for just about ANY job in
their field.

In 1982, I graduated from a university in Upstate NY with a BS in
Mathematics and two years of experience as a programming work-study in
my school's Administrative Computer Center.  You'd think I'd have a good
shot at a programming job but I spent five months looking high and low
for a job, before I found one loading stock in a department store.  Three
months later, a good friend gave me a lead into a third shift Operator's
job; a year and a half later, I received an offer of an engineering job
here in the Bay Area...and that's my story.

Mind you, the job market's much worse now, than it was in 1982.  I don't
resent the wasted months and effort anymore but I don't feel that it was
a "character-building" period either.  It was a waste.  And if companies
would give new graduates a chance to work, even for really shitty pay,
I sincerely feel that everybody would be much better off.

Just my two cents.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        Bush for  President in '92!
                                 ^
                                 Ex-
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Baldwin  -  Software Engineer  - e-mail to:  donb@tamri.com
From: pff@cup.portal.com (PAT F FOGARTY)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Method of mailing resume
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 11:44:37 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Mark,

A couple of HR types have told me NOT to fold resume's.

The reason? They put the folded ones at the bottom of the "IN" box to
flatten them out!

I've been using 9x12 Tyvek envelopes. They are tough, waterproof, and self-
sealing. About $17.00 a hundred.


Pat Fogarty
From: minisys@cup.portal.com (Mini Systems Associates)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: This is a test
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 12:29:17 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: ca

THIS IS A TEST.
THANK YOU.