From: heiko@chemie.fu-berlin.de (Heiko Schlichting)
Subject: Re: Beschwerde ueber das Verhalten des (deutschen) EUnets
X-Format: RFC822/1036
Organization: Free University of Berlin, Dept. of Chemistry
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 02:56:00 GMT

cross@cs.tu-berlin.de (Carsten Rossenhoevel) writes:
>ms@slartibartfast.informatik.uni-dortmund.de (Marc Sheldon) writes:
>> [u.deu.? / u.deu.?? enthalten nur Daten von EUnet-Kunden]
>> Es steht jedem frei, weitere Maps anzulegen (wie auch schon im
>> Falle des Vereins mit dem unaussprechlichen Namen, dem IN, open.de und anderen
>> Leuten passiert ist) und diese an das UUCP-Map-Projekt weiterzugeben.

>Aha, versteh ich.  Fehlt in Marcs Aufzaehlung der Verwalter fuer
>DFN-Kunden, oder gibt es gar keinen?

Gibt es nicht. Es ist zur Zeit so, dass es die u.deu.? Maps gibt,
die vom EUnet herausgegeben werden und es gibt die u.deu.??? Maps,
die von 'maps@fu-berlin.de' (Hauptarbeit: Andreas M. Kirchwitz)
herausgegeben werden.
Die u.deu.??? nimmt alle Sites auf, die dort eingetragen werden wollen
und die noetigen Voraussetzungen erfuellen. [Genaueres: siehe de.newusers]

Maps sind in den USA und meist auch sonst in der Welt vom Provider
unabhaengig. Im Normalfall sind das Freiwillige, die dort die Eintraege
verwalten und keine Provider.

Hier uebrigens die Antwort des UUCP-Mapping-Project-Koordinators von
der Rutgers Universitaet:

[From: Mel Pleasant]

Vera,
	I believe you're off the mark on this one but a bit of history might
help.  For a long time now EUnet has handled the uucp maps.  For much of
that time however, they did it only for themselves e.g. their clients,
non-EUnet sites could not get a listing.  Over time, due to pressure from
within as well as from others both local and abroad, EUnet saw the light and
began to carry map entries for non-EUnet sites.  Having seen the light
however did not mean that internal policies governing the layout of EUnet
map files had to change.  The light only suggested that map entries for
non-EUnet sites be carried in one form or another.  I'm certain that someone
from within EUnet can correct me if I'm mistaken but I hve no doubt that
after some discussion, EUnet saw fit to segregate map entries for its member
sites from those which weren't members.  This is where we are at today.

	My own opinion is that I don't have any real problem with this
setup.  Indeed, the UUCP Mapping Project guidelines, as they are, for map
co-ordinators suggests that they may shape their files in anyway that seems
most appropriate.

	May I suggest that the same thing could have happened to you if the
regional co-ordinator for Germany was not part of the EUnet system!!!  You
would have dropped your membership, EUnet would have informed the
co-ordinator that your map entry should be dropped, you would be expected to
post a new map entry directly through the map co-ordinator yourself.  As a
stand-alone co-ordinator, this hypothetical person may have known that you
were actually still on the UUCP network and may have attempted to better
co-ordinate the transition.  Then again, this hypothetical co-ordinator may
not have been aware of your exact status either.  This hypothetical map
co-ordinator with a sub-organization within the region as described above
exists here in the States today, in more than one area.  And, we have seen
your situation arise here as well.  It's no big deal here.  The situation is
simply spelled out to sub-regional organizational members when they join the
organization (obviously because the organization offers something more...)

	As offical map co-ordinators for the UUCP Mapping Project, I would
encourage EUnet to better spell out problematic areas which arise due to its
internal policies and any solutions which might be had.  In this particular
case, I would encourage EUnet to tell its membership upfront when they
signup, but again when they terminate contracts - and to do so if only as a
matter of that execellent service model that any good service provider
wishes to provide.  This is an internal EUnet matter however as I don't
require map co-ordinators to be aware of sub-regional organization matters.

	Finally, as in any market oriented system, who co-ordinates the maps
can be changed.  If enough of the market wishes to see a change and creates
enough of a ground swell for that change, we can be convinced to help bring
it about, especially if there is a local volunteer to take on the job.  Let
me point out however, that the UUCP Mapping Project is loathe to force a
change in co-ordinators over minor matters.  It is truly a thankless job.
So, before you consider embarking on such a path please remember that old
Chinese proverb, ``be careful for what you ask as you may well receive it...''

-- Mel

[Zitat Ende]

Heiko
--
Heiko Schlichting               heiko@Chemie.FU-Berlin.DE
Freie Universitaet Berlin, Institut fuer Kristallographie