From: yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Caucasians don't understand
Date: 26 Aug 1992 19:16:33 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley
Reply-To: yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.106

In article <1992Aug26.153746.2502@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:

(earlier circular arguments deleted)

>
>No, I pigeon-holed YOU. YOU were mentioning how well YOU were treated in Italy.
>You were saying that the situation there is not bad. This is true IF you ignore
>their (and France's, and much of Europe's) increasing antipathy to Moslem
>immigrants. As you mentioned that the stiuation was not at all bad there, I 
>assumed you didn't know about those laws.

For your benefit, I was in Italy for six months in 1967, years before 
this antipathy to Moslem immigrants surfaced.  I made clear that, 
based on my experiences around the world, I do not get the feeling 
of the US as an oasis of racial equanimity compared to the rest of 
the world. You, however, seem intent on placing the US to a higher 
plane. You originally praised the US and parts of Europe 
(codeword for "white" ...) as the only places enlightened enough to 
have anti-racism laws. Now you're saying things in "much of Europe"
are not too good after all.  Gee, that only leaves us in the USA, 
doesn't it ???  And since you say you know about Vincent Chin, and 
presumably read about the more recent killings here, not to mention
South Central LA, aren't you being selective in your judgement ?
Calling Vincent Chin's death a barroom brawl with no mention of
its racist background again shows how selective you can be. 

I get back to my original point - the US and Europe, with 
their history of slavery, colonialism, and racial problems, are
hardly beacons of racial harmony to foist on a gullible world.
What are those old American words of wisdom ?? "People who live in 
glass houses...."??

>
>You mean you have a good Turkish friend and you just NOW read about this? The
>situation has been around for about 2 -3 decades. It has been on the front
>page ( from time to time) of every paper I've ever read. 
(rest of putdown deleted)

I can't believe you would continue to parade your conceit for everyone 
of scaa to see. I was referring specifically to the discussion of 
immigration restrictions in Italy, which is a recent controversy
that has definitely not been around for "2 to 3 decades". Back when 
I was in Firenze in 1967, the only "guest workers", if you want to 
call them that, were workers from the Mezzogiorno going to work in 
the more prosperous north. Far from importing foreign workers, Italy 
was then supplying them in large numbers to France and Germany. 

Yes, I've seen LaPen posters in Paris in 1984, and yes, I known 
since the mid-1960's about Turkish workers in Germany, and yes, 
I've chatted with Indians, Africans, and Chinese about their life in 
London. I didn't intend to use the net to flaunt everything I know, 
particularly not about Europe on scaa. Your inferences about my 
supposed ignorance only reflect poorly on your prejudice.
I called your statement about me not possibly caring about anti-Turkish 
laws in Italy racist because I don't know how else to interpret it.
For someone who's so worried about others negating your experiences 
abroad, you seem to have no qualms prejudging those of others.
Using your logic, I would say that you probably don't care about 
Japanese discrimination against the Koreans or Chinese there, but
I don't, that would be racist.

Joe