HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Military info needed
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:34:51 GMT

> scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker) writes:
>> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:

>>[Clinton comment on overturning military ban deleted]
>
>>That last line carries some weight, I think.  Why would he
>>commit himself so thoroughly to overturning the ban if he knew
>>he mightn't follow through?  It's not like he didn't know
>>only too well that there'd be a great to do about it...
>
>A while back, Barbara Walters interviewed "Stormin'" Normin about
>overturning the ban.  He was against it because it would cause
>"morale" problems...

You have to remember that these generals and admirals --
Powell, Crowe, Schwarzkopf -- are not in the business of
implementing or even supporting social justice.  Their job is 
to maintain an effective and cohesive military.  Decisions
like integrating the military racially, allowing women to
serve in combat roles and overturning the ban on gays and
lesbians are *political* decisions, all of which were or
are "prejudicial to good order and discipline."  The generals
wouldn't be doing their job if they supported these changes.

The question is not whether opening the military to out gays
and lesbians would hurt it in some way -- plainly it would
(will) to some extent *in*the*short-term*.  As a society, we
have to decide if all our institutions, including the
military, are to be open to all qualified citizens.  If our
society guarantees freedom and equality to all, shouldn't the
defense of that society be entrusted to all?
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me about this TV show?
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:42:14 GMT

nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>Anyone know how to make a beehive? That'd look hot.

Wow! Nelson, we simply *must* get together and play beauty parlor
sometime! That'd be better than the Barbie hair head set!

--
John Dorrance        * Sexyfunky Motherfuckerdiva *   thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

		I bet if you threw that ass into the air
			It'd turn into sunshine!
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: New column adds a gay perspective
Date: 19 Nov 92 23:23:41 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.) wrote:
>Where will this trend pop up next?  _The Miami Herald_?  _The Wichita Eagle_?

Centre Daily Times?

Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"Home is where your roof landed" - t-shirt seen in Miami
Hate, bigotry, and discrimination are not family values, even in
Colorado and Tampa.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Subject: Re: Homosexuals raising children
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:09:03 GMT

Jim Hubbs (jeh@aplcenmp.apl.jhu.edu) wrote:
> dgilly@us.oracle.com (Daniel Gilly) writes:
> 
> >Kinda makes you wonder if there shouldn't be a kids' group
> >to complement P-FLAG.
> 
> There is such a thing.  It's called: Just For Us and it is associated
> with the Gay and Lesbian Parents Coalition International.  They
> have local chapters in cities in the US and Canada and publish a
> newsletter.  
> 

Do they meet?  Have you been?  Do you get the newsletter? 
   ??              ??                   ??

Mike Drayton      mdrayton@sr.hp.com       Hewlett-Packard Co.
                                           Santa Rosa, California
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me about this TV show?
Date: 17 Nov 92 05:58:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov17.055847.18377
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Nov17.053243.25307@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>>He really didn't mention a thing about red beards, however.
>oh dear, don't get me started.

Ahem.

>>Nelson, dear, did I ever show you the pictures of me in my nice
>>red beard?  There is a chance that someone may talk me into growing
>>it back, so you may get to see it first hand.

How much $$$ are you asking?  We'll take up a collection.

>>I know, I'm a tease, but Nelson really is quite fun that way.
>...and it keeps working.

Not to mention the rest of your captive audience.

>And the sad truth is, he's right folks. I'm not old enough to have a
>beard. I'm old enough to shave, but I lack the testosterone necessary
>for a full beard.

That's what regular, er, injections are for, young fellator.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Xref: sparky soc.motss:47804 talk.politics.misc:60386 ca.politics:9592
From: owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
Subject: Re: Inconsistency re CO boycott
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:56:03 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Distribution: usa

In article <13088@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> In article <BOB.92Nov5190157@dolores.Stanford.EDU>, bob@dolores.Stanford.EDU (Bob Lodenkamper) writes:
> # I've noticed that when the subject of a boycott comes up, some
> # conservatives, free-marketeers and/or libertarians are often vocally
> # against the boycott.  This seems bizarre to me, for how can someone
> 
> They may be in opposition to a PARTICULAR boycott because:
> 1. It won't work.
> 2. The goal is disreputable (e.g., boycotting a business because
> it hires black people).
> 3. It hurts the victims more than the oppressors (e.g., South
> Africa).
 
Don't forget to add

4. they just don't agree with the purpose or goal of the boycott.

I seem to recall some conservative led boycotts, I think Bob just 
hasn't noticed them.

> Boycott is definitely the morally correct way to express your
> upset.  The government is not.  Boycotts, however, require a
> very substantial committment to the goal to work.  Adam Clayton
> Powell, Jr., made very effective use of the boycott to end
> discrimination in hiring in New York City department stores in
> the 1930s.  It's a shame homosexuals can only think in terms
> of a great big government, coming in to FORCE people to change.

What factors do you believe are behind this Clayton?

I am one Queer who doesn't believe that government can force
people to change their minds about socially acceptable bigotry.

I look back on the civil rights struggle of racial minoritys and find
that for all the government regulation regarding non-discrimination
there is still plenty to go around. legislation does not cure bigotry.

In my opinion bigotry is a function of ignorance, and only balanced
education has the potential to deal with that.

do you agree?

LUX ./. owen

--
D. Owen Rowley {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen

  " It will be a cold March 17th that I celebrate the imposition of
	Romes rule, on Pagan Ireland. Erin go ppphhhhhttttttt! "
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Not Enough Sucking on Keanu
From: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu (William Hsu)
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:52:43 PST
Reply-To: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu
Distribution: world

> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
> 
> >(who remembers now that Keanu isn't a particularly gifted actor;

Jess Anderson:
> Not having seen the latest, but based on "Idaho," I'd
> call this an understatement of prize-winning proportions.

But he was *supposed* to deliver his lines in an artificial manner
in the scenes with "Bob" in Idaho. Those were van Sant's mock
Shakespeare scenes.

But I'll agree that Keanu Reeves doesn't have much range as an actor.
He was quite realistic in River's Edge tho (he was playing a character
who was probably much like himself).

Bill
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cc0001@medtronic.COM (Christopher Carriero)
Subject: Re: gay culture
Organization: Medtronic, Inc.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:04:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.233158.11847@samba.oit.unc.edu> czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (Season Marie Taylor) writes:
>I went to talk to my English TA about my gay culture paper today (I posted
>something earlier about my paper).  She so graciously pointed out that
>there are many very conservative people in my class, and that one of these
>people might be the person grading my paper.  (We grade each other's papers
>in this class)  She told me that I should either write about part of gay
>culture that would not offend even the most close-minded people, or that I
>should choose another topic.  How does she expect me to write about any
>aspect of gay culture and still offend no one?  I think what she was really
>wanting me to do was to choose another topic.  Well, she can get over it. 
>This is what I want to write about, and I don't care who I offend in my class.
>
>
>
>season, wishing that she could pass Advance Expository Writing with at
>        least a B, but knowing that she is doomed to get the first C of
>        her life.
>

I hope you get an A.

>
>
>
>-- 
>                     ____  
>Season Taylor        \  / "thought i knew my mind/like the back of my hand/
>czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu\/   the gold in the rainbow/nothing panned out as i
>(yes, as in the 4)         planned"   --indigo girls


Good Luck.

-- Chris

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Carriero			cc0001@medtronic.com
Medtronic, Inc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Tom Brokaw, boy idiot
Date: 19 Nov 92 13:07:40 GMT

bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:

>The scene: Barry and I, sitting in front of the tube in our living room
>tonight, watching NBC Nightly News.  Tom Brokaw interviews Col. Harry
>Summers (Ret) on Clinton's stand to remove ban on gays in the military.
>Comments are paraphrased.

>Summers: It used to be OK in the old days when they were quiet.  Now in
>	 these days of 'in your face' they want confrontation all the time.

>Brokaw:  Do you think that allowing gays in the military will lead to other
>	 ethnic and racial groups to also demand a special place [!!] in the
>	 military?  [note: these are very close to his exact words]

Did he really say "special?"  He's no better than Lon Mabon.  You know, all
the way back to the 1970s on "Today", I thought he was a major league asshole
and this only confirms it.

Robert Redford should use better judgment in selecting friends.

--
Jim Wood [jwood@siemens.siemens.com] (609) 734-3643
"Rise up on the wings of eagles, and two step among the stars.
 You are not forgotten.  Your smile will echo forever."
   -- Ryerson Schwark, to our friend Rob Bernardo.
From: stephena@netcom.com (Stephen Arrants)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:56:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Nov18.155625.23186
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <69732@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>Stephen Arrants huffs:
>>>He also has a penchant for dropping his trousers in public.
>>
>>Yeah, so?  You've done it at the Lone Star, George.  Double-standard time?
>
>Pull that stick out of your ass. I was referring to his penchant
>for dropping 'trou as an identifier, notoriety about which might
>have reached further than his name.
>
> 
And pull your head out of your ass, George. Your penchant for the same (along 
with the "old in-and-out", pissing contests on the patio and the like identify
you to those who don't know you.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:23:06 GMT

rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) wrote: 
->	And who the $#%)(%$ is "Marky MArk" ...

marky mark's only redeeming quality is that he seems to have found
his penis.

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
#     for information on the league for programming freedom, 
#                     write to lpf@uunet.uu.net
From: psp@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (P.S. Powledge)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Homos at Depth
Date: 19 Nov 92 00:32:40 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Holmdel, NJ

In article <BxvnE3.EKE@fig.citib.com> glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) 
writes:
>What I don't understand is why there aren't more
>queers who dive.  It takes some skill and education,
>it's faux-butch (you get to strap a big knife to your
>calf) and there is lots of paraphenalia to buy - dive
>skins, wetsuits, masks, flippers, booties, and a whole
>array of dive computers to obsess over.

Because THE sport of choice for queer gearheads who like to 
be butch is climbing, that's why. (I'm not kidding about the
gear, either; when I was at the Stonewall Climbers convention
that was recently held in Seneca Rocks, W. Va., I noticed that
*everyone* in our group was driving either a truck, a van, or
a wagon. You need something big in order to haul around all 
the crap that you end up buying if you stick with climbing.)

BTW, when I stopped by the NYC Lesbian and Gay Community Center over
the weekend, I saw a SCUBA group listed in the building's schedule. 
Do you know about them?

-- 
||| Polly Powledge				
||| Internet: p.s.powledge@att.com
||| Uucp:     att!hrmso!psp
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 10:04:13 EDT
Reply-To: ailanth!ailsa@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Organization: Ailanthus Project

rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:

> In article <1992Nov15.162201.11450@wixer.cactus.org>, lazarus@wixer.ca
> (Michael Lax) writes:
> |> Some of us think he's a hunk, others think he's white trash.
>
> Some of us think he's both.

and, of course, some of us wouldn't recognize him if we ran into him
on the street, and wouldn't notice him even if we recognized him.
*yawn*

                                             -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                    ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
                                                        ________
I don't care what consequence it brings,        Silence \      / Action
I have been a fool for lesser things.              =     \    /    =
                                                 Death    \  /    Life
                                                           \/
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Bear Crap
Date: 18 Nov 92 06:15:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov18.061506.3573
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Nov17.212900.24865@oracle.us.oracle.com> dgilly@us.oracle.com (Daniel Gilly) writes:
>I assume that the codes are intended to identify someone as a
>bear -- either to other bears or to bear-friendly people.
>In this case, a non-bear using the codes would be intruding on
>bear "safe-space", n'est-ce pas?

No, you'd be identifying yourself as a "non bear".  There are many
"non bears" on the BML.  Some I'd call "wannabears", others wear
their smooth skin like a badge of honor.  Not all bears like other
bears, you know.

>On the other hand, some time (about a year) ago, I seem to 
>recall someone (Steve Dyer??) saying that the bear codes can
>in fact be used to describe anyone.  I don't know if he was
>being a mischievous devil's advocate or expressing his actual
>feelings, but this sounds like what you had in mind for the
>survey.  

I'm pretty sure that was what he had in mind, and for at least once,
I wasn't being a mischevious devil's advocate.  On the other hand,
I don't think the bear codes are Turing-equivalent to a proper
English sentence.

>Do you encourage the general use of bear codes as a shorthand
>for describing people, a la Personals section, or should their
>use be reserved to identify bears?  

I always wondered what the matter was with English?  I'm lucky if I can
remember what the 'B' (beard) means, and the only other letters I remember
are 'f' (fur) and 'e' (endowment), and the only ones who use the latter
are either boasting or lying. :-)

>I'm sure people would have no doubt about me if they saw my
>woefully non-bear codes of B0 w- h- f- ...; however, I think
>a lot of people harbor either ignorance or cautious sensitivity 
>when it comes to the purpose of the codes.  Maybe someone 
>could shed some light on this.

If you consider it just a bit of silliness, and take it in that light,
you'll have caught the gist of it.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Barbara is wrong
Date: 22 Nov 92 15:16:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: macc.1992Nov22.151630.23327
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Nov21.220551.350@mtechca.maintech.com>
chuck@mtechca.maintech.com writes:

>This measure passed due to the fact that U.S. citizens
>have had "enough" as Barbard Striesand put it, of
>protectionist legislation!  This has nothing to do with Gay
>Rights, but instead the declaration of equality based on the
>elimination of prejudice...not the illegal imposition of
>barriern breakin rules.

I can just hear the huge collective sigh of relief all over
the country, now that someone has seen through all the fog
and had a clear vision of The Truth.  Those who are waiting
for the savior can now relax, for lo, it has arrived and
delivered itself of the Oracle's message.  In case you by
some madness missed it, the message is: Business As Usual.

<> Traditionally, emotional and social problems have been judged as
<> the moral shortcomings of an individual.  Someone suffering from
<> a psychiatric illness or an addiction is rarely viewed as a
<> person who has a disorder or who is taxed by overwhelming
<> circumstances.  Instead the affliction is becomes a metaphor for
<> a host of evils; it serves a testimony of the individual's
<> unworthiness, a cause for condemnation.
<> -- Ellen L. Bassuk, "Scientific American," December 1991
-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
From: huntting@advtech.uswest.com (Brad Huntting)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 05:29:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.005758.9404@umr.edu> ckincy@mcs213f.cs.umr.edu (Charles Kincy) writes:
>Of course, I don't buy anything from Coors, Lexmark, or Hewlett-Packard
>[three big Colorado businesses] anyway.  And I don't know how to ski.  So, 
>a boycott of Colorado just isn't that difficult for me to do.  *8)

Ironicly, I'm told that Coors officially opposed the amendment.  (They
also supported Jessey Jackson in 84 probably for the same reasons).  I
also understand that labor organizations have withdrawn their support
of the age old Coors boycot.  Still, after so many years I still see
swastikas everytime I look at a "silver bullet".

U S WEST too needed to amend it's poor record on "pluralism" (which
cost it a cool million or so in punative damages this year) and came
out strongly against amendment 2.

I've lived in Boulder 20 years, and I still dont understand how this
town wound up in the state of Colorado.  Rather than susseed from the
state, perhaps we (boulder) should just expunge Colorado Springs...


brad
From: pfritsch@skid.ps.uci.edu (Paul Fritschle)
Subject: Re: Dannemeyer... he's back...
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Organization: Miskatonic University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:38:30 GMT

buckmr@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:

>What is also cool is that Bob Dornan, another Flate Earth conservative, says
>he is interested in the Seat. I think Feinstein is probably going to resign 
>it and run against Pete  again, what do yu think?

I dunno.. I see Feinstein as looking for higher office... Best bet
would be to win re-election, and then shoot for VP consideration
later... or position herself for a run in 2000. (God, doesn't that
sound weird? Talking about an election in the year 2000?)
--

Paul Fritschle                                         pfritsch@skid.PS.UCI.EDU
                 Have you hugged YOUR shoggoth today?
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Military info needed
Date: 15 Nov 92 21:59:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: bbx.43
Organization: BASIS International, Ltd., Albuquerque NM USA

In article <1992Nov13.170045.899@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
>[Clinton comment on overturning military ban deleted]

>That last line carries some weight, I think.  Why would he
>commit himself so thoroughly to overturning the ban if he knew
>he mightn't follow through?  It's not like he didn't know
>only too well that there'd be a great to do about it...

A while back, Barbara Walters interviewed "Stormin'" Normin about
overturning the ban.  He was against it because it would cause
"morale" problems.  In other words, the straight boyz wouldn't get
along with 'em.  Some gay-positive heterosexuals watching with
me started to (reluctantly) buy into that - until I reminded them that
was the "official" reason for not allowing blacks to serve with whites 
several decades ago (the white boyz wouldn't get along with 'em).

At least Normin what's-his-name didn't bother to attack homosexuals as
less-than-real-men or perverts.  Still, it's unfortunate that he would
fall back on yet another outdated line of crap.

-- 
Scott Amspoker                       |    
Basis International, Albuquerque, NM |  Too bad ignorance isn't really
                                     |  bliss.  Then it could be outlawed.
scott@bbx.basis.com                  |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: A Strand of Bigotry
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 21:49:18 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,ca.politics

In article <13208@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
wrote:

> Remember: liberalism IS fascism.

You are in error.  Liberalism follows a totalitarian paradigm, but it
is not fascism.  Both are instances of the same class, which has no
particular name.  They invovle the glorification of _Law_, and the
compulsion of individual choice to 'acceptable' behavior, as dictated by
_Law_.  

Both are repugnant, but they are not the same thing.
 
*X*
Newsgroups: soc.motss