HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: perezc@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: OFFSHORE SOFTWARE FACTORIES?
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 22:34:52 GMT

Hello!

	I have this idea about setting up an 'off shore' software 'factory'
in the Philippines (i.e. in the Asia/Pacific rim).  I'm presently doing a lot
of research in software engineering, particularly in the management of the 
software development process or rather in the 'automation' of the software
process.  So I was thinking, considering that the pay scales are a lot lower
over there, and the quality of the people are just as good (measured by their
level of education ).  And assuming that we introduce all the latest software
engineering methodologies i.e. Formal methods, Cleanroom, OOA/OOD etc. and the
fact that '486 based systems are dirt cheap and are capable of running a lot
of advanced applications.  Assuming too that we get the best CASE tools too.

       Does this carve out a niche for software development?  Anyway there's
a real backlog in Software anyway, and extra capacity is always welcome.  So
to all the business and entrepreneural minds out there, your opinions,
comments, suggestions and flames please.

Carlos
From: cdb@waikato.ac.nz (Craig D. Beere)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: the dreaded 'A' word ... AMWAY
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:45:34 +1200
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <714382666.F00001@therose.pdx.com>,
 Grant.Cunningham@p55.f54.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Grant Cunningham) writes:
> This is precisely why many people (most, I would venture to say) consider the
> Amway membership to be unethical.

Oh really?  I've never met anyone who considers Amway membership to be
unethical.  I've talked about Amway to about, umm, say a round figure of about
10-20 people per week for the last five to six months.  Worst case of 200
people.

> Look at your own post:  rather than
> discussing Amway's sales practices, you prefer (like EVERY SINGLE AMWAY DRONE
> I've ever talked to, read about, or seen posted on any computer network) to
> obfuscate.

Amway Drone.  What an amazing phrase.  Makes us sound like a bunch of bees. 
Maybe that makex Rich de Vos and Jay van Andel a pair of queens...? ;-)

> The references to the CFC contents is specious,

Why?

> and the references
> to someone "preferring" convicted criminals over Amway is absurd and 
> disgusting.

Yeah, I agree.  There is no comparison between Amway (or any other legit
business) and the likes of John Gotti.

> The intent, of course, is to make Amway seem so clean in comparison.

Sad way of doing it, really.  Why not just let Amway stand on its achievements?

> Here it is in a nutshell: Amway people WILL NOT tell you what your real job is
> in the organization (namely, selling still more memberships to that
> organization.)

Don't generalize.  There are several thousand of us here in New Zealand that do
exactly that.

> They use the hard-earned banners of respected products -- for
> which they  are simply one of MANY dealers 

In New Zealand, about 80-100 out of 1000 products are exclusive to Amway.

> -- to cloak themselves in
> believability.  They won't even divulge the name of their "fine" organization
> when discussing it, again using the names of the products they "sell" as a
> screen for the real company.

Again, don't generalize.  Have you met every single one of the 1.2 million
Amway distributors worldwide?

> If it looks like sleaze, and walks like sleaze....

Gimme a break!  If the people you have seen were sleazy, I apologize for them. 
But don't make the (incorrect) generalisation that Amway is therefore sleazy.

{*******************************************************************************
** Craig D. Beere  (a.k.a. ++Byron)
** University of Waikato, New Zealand
** CDB@waikato.ac.nz
*}
{$I standard_disclaimer}
{$I witty_quote}
From: dlhpfm!dlh@NCoast.org (daniel lance herrick)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Possible Products
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 19:44:31 EDT
Organization: dlh Performance Marketing

Vinodh.Das@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Vinodh Das) writes:

>   A friend of mine recently received government funding
> in India for an electronics factory.  We're very 
> excited, but we have yet to decide on a product.
> It would be fantastic if I got some input or 
> suggestions from fellow entrepreneurs about possible
> products that would be useful (and <ahem> would
> sell well) in a less developed country as India.

Seeing's you're already committed to electronics, a radio receiver that
tunes the international shortwave bands, has a rechargable battery and
a built-in solar charger.

Assemble AT-clone computers from Taiwanese components to bring
computerization within the reach of the small shop owner.

dan  of dlh Performance Marketing  POBox 1419  Mentor Ohio 44061
       NCoast.org!dlhpfm!dlh or ab.com!dlhpfm.uucp!dlh   (216)974-9637
"`Bad, bad,' says the buyer; but when he goes his way, then he boasts."
Proverbs 20:14
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs,alt.business.multi-level
From: tjio@venice.sedd.trw.com (Lee Tjio)
Subject: Re: johng and Amway
Keywords: Flame Off 
Organization: TRW Systems Engineering & Development Division, Carson, CA
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 22:19:06 GMT

In article <1992Sep03.203124.17168@bnr.ca> Marker Man writes:
>
> John:  
>
>     I don't know where this newsgroup appears on YOUR system, but on mine
>the title is alt.business.multi-level.  I create SW products on my day job - 
>that's definitely NOT what I want in a sideline business.

Did you ever check your distribution list?   

>
>     BTW - you have only proved your ignorance by relating the incident  
>wherein you were approached about Amway.  If you understood the concept, you
>would have seen that it's a win-win situation.

Right ... 

>
>     'Nuff said.

Well said!
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz (tmp))
Subject: Re: implementation of an idea..
Reply-To: Gary Fritz <fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com>
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1scd1 PL4
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:42:32 GMT

> The basic problem with your question is that ideas are cheap.  

This might sound harsh or callous, but it's very true.  Brian Tracy,
in his "How to Get Rich in America" tape series, spends some time
talking about this.  Ideas are a dime a dozen, he says.  It's the
skill and determination to bring them to fruition that is valuable.

Gary
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: danr@ais.org (Daniel Romanchik)
Subject: Re: Any good bank for a growing startup
Organization: UMCC
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:15:35 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.131248.12513@news.columbia.edu> reh5@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Richard E Hu) writes:
>I am looking for a bank for my new business. 
>Any suggestions for a financially sound
>and startup friendly (more willing to
>give revolving credit line to a startup)
>bank?
>
   The July or August issue of Inc. had an article on banks that are
friendly to small businesses.  I just skimmed through the article, but
it looked pretty good.

Dan
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs,alt.business.multi-level
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Thursday, 27 Aug 1992 11:58:13 EDT
From: <SAYED@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Amway
 <1992Aug26.155057.10375@waikato.ac.nz>

In article <1992Aug26.155057.10375@waikato.ac.nz>, cdb@waikato.ac.nz (Craig D.
Beere) says:
>
>In article <1684E10A7A.ST32373@VM.CC.LATECH.EDU>,
> ST32373@VM.CC.LATECH.EDU writes:
>>
>
>Amway provides products and pays rebates.  That's all.
>
>It is left to 'support structures' to actually tell you how to build the
>business.  I.e. whay to say to people, how to present the plan, what to say at
>meetings, etc.  These support structures are usually non-profit organisations
>made up of distributors.  They put on functions, publish newsletters, business
>manuals, tapes, etc.
>
>So, if you go to an Amway meeting but didn't like it, then maybe you should
>consider finding another support structure and looking at their 'version' of
>Amway.  Just because what you see at one glance is bad, that doesn't mean all
>of Amway is bad.
>
>BTW: Any other businesses have the supply and the support split up like this?
  ---------------------------------

Primerica is better than Ammway
you have the support of a $30 billion company
you can make 6 digit income or in some  cases even seven!!!
most people say Amway is fake, but like what they see with Primerica.
Primerica is a memeber of New York stock exchange and they are a
  fortun 500 company.
Their support is excelent and they will provide excelent training

If you need more info....ask me about it.
Sayed



Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: hologram@wam.umd.edu (C. Carlson)
Subject: Re: Food  and copyright ???
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 04:53:42 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.224135.14291@sequent.com> danielh@sequent.com (Daniel Hobbs) writes:
>In article <2465@cronos.metaphor.com> covdy@cronos.metaphor.com (Ivan Covdy) writes:
>>
>>Suppose, I invented how to make burgers or something similar, 
>>that is, such a recipe, which might be used by any restaurant.
>>
>>Is there a way I can make money on it and protect my authorship?
>
>There was a discussion on this awhile back.  Evidently, the _ingredients_
>and _amounts_ of a recipe cannot be copyrighted.  However, your particular
>presentation of the recipe can -- thus, you could copyright a particular
>set of instructions for preparing the dish, but not the contents of the
>dish itself.
>
>That was my understanding; I didn't get it from the U.S. Copyright law...
>
>Dan
>


	This goes hand in hand with what my high school friend told me.
He worked at McDonald's and told me that there was a chart that you must
follow *exactly* to prepare and assemble a BigMac.  Also, even if a customer
requests you to put ketchup on the BigMac you were making, you couldn't and
had to serve the ketchup on the side.  That would agree with the fact the
the instructions for assembling a BigMac could be copyrighted.

	The special sauce?  Come on!  It's thousand island dressing! :-)

--Chris Carlson
hologram@wam.umd.edu
From: billy@terminus.umd.edu (Billy E. Taylor Jr.)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: AMWAY GEEKS
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:57:23 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.195737.14206@javelin.sim.es.com>  
wkirkpat@javelin.sim.es.com (WCK) writes:
> We are all SICK of these Banica breathing,Timex were'n,Freaks
> The whole point of misc.entrepreneurs is to help those who strive
> to be independent, of money worries,and of up/down line worries.
[blah blah blah] 
>                 input ?    -wade-

If it weren't for the ".com" I would have sworn it was another episode in 
"The Invasion of the Freshlings."  

Go figure,
billy.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Billy E. Taylor, Jr.  | (301) 403-4616         | "...carped the deim like
Comp Sci Ctr, U of MD | billy@terminus.umd edu | a mother..."  -- RICHH
College Pk, MD 20742  | Disclaimer: I don't know, maybe it's me...
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs,alt.business.multi-level
From: Frank Sayre <sayre@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu>
Subject: Re: Amway
Organization: Vanderbilt University Computer Center
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
     <1992Sep2.192223.24442@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu>
     <1992Sep03.132913.10536@bnr.ca> <1992Sep3.164006.17738@lucid.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:37:40 GMT


>I'm working with a group trying to raise funds and create SW products to
create
>a startup.  That is entrepreneurship.

Salaam, oh great and glorious one! We lowly cattle cannot comprehend the
splendor of your achievments without proper instruction. Thank-you!
Thank-you!

>I just felt I had "to share" with these droids that they are not welcome 
> everywhere they go.
>
Now, we all see the light where before there was darkness.

============================================================
Frank C. Sayre
sayre@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: vilva@madras.b23b.ingr.com (Vilva Natarajan)
Subject: implementation of an idea..
Reply-To: "Vilva Natarajan <vilva@madras.b23b.ingr.COM>"
Organization: "Dazix, an Intergraph Company., Huntsville, AL 35894, USA."
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:02:46 GMT


Hi,

	I have a few innovative thoughts, that I think would have a great
	market if implemented. But I dont have the technical expertise to
	do it. Are there any agencies that do experiments of such nature?
	If so how much do these agencies charge? Please let me know.
	Thanks.



vn

----

____________________________________________________________________

Vilva Natarajan				DAZIX, an Intergraph Company
email: vilva@madras.b23b.ingr.com	Tel: 205-730-8544
____________________________________________________________________



Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: reh5@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Richard E Hu)
Subject: How to get a merchant Visa Account
Keywords:  Visa, mail order, startup
Reply-To: reh5@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Rich E Hugh)
Organization: not yet organized
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 01:10:39 GMT
Expires: Sat, 31 Oct 1992 05:00:00 GMT

I am starting a mail order business. I have been trying
to get a merchant Visa account without success.  Apparently,
mail order business has a high percentage of charge back and
banks are reluctant to issue a merchant Visa account to
such business, specially a start up.

There are a couple of work-around that I am thinkings:
1. Go to a bank, offer them that I will put $5,000 in an
   escrow account and as sales (credit card charges) 
   comes in, I will put 30% of the sales into the escrow
   account.  The escrow account will be used to cover
   potential future charge backs.  The money will stay in
   the escrow account for 3 months.
2. Go to an existing mail order house that has a merchant
   Visa account. Offer them a % of sales in exchange for using 
   of their merchant Visa account.

Any suggestions? Know any more flexible bank or
non-bank merchant Visa issuers? Know any person or contact 
who I should talk to?

Thank much.

Rich.


Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: Frank Sayre <sayre@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu>
Subject: Need info on correspondence degree programs
Organization: Vanderbilt University Computer Center
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:00:56 GMT


There are number of "universities" offering BA/BS, MA/MS, PhD's
to working professionals by correspondence, i.e. you don't attend
classes but work from your home submitting classwork and papers
via US mail or electronically.  They usually claim to be accredited.
The accreditation is usually from the state they are located in, tho'
I believe I've seen some claim recognition from US Dept of Educ (??).
They cater to working professionals, and the degrees are in prof.
areas, e.g. MBA, CS, Educational Admin, etc. The programs are advertised
in various publications, e.g. the classifieds in the back of Fortune.
Several of them are located in California.

Does anyone have any knowledge of such programs or experience with
them? Please name which ones.

What is the course work like? Do they use textbooks, periodical
articles, etc, as in traditional university programs, or do they use
use their own workbooks or other "canned" materials?

How much leaway do they give students in defining projects, electing
course work?

Can anyone elaborate on the value of the accreditation of these programs? 

If you were conducting interviews for a position in your organization
for which an MBA would be a prerequisite or a plus, would you recognize  
value in an MBA from a correspondence program?

Are such degrees merely minor career enhancers for people who already 
have traditional Bachelors or Masters, i.e. just icing on the cake?
Or are they to some degree the "wave of the future", as traditional 
higher education becomes untenably expensive?

Have you read or are you aware of any formal/published review or 
other evaluation of correspondence programs?

Thanks for any replies of any nature. Please post in follow-ups so 
that other readers may benefit.

============================================================
Frank C. Sayre         
sayre@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs,alt.business.multi-level
From: ST32373@VM.CC.LATECH.EDU
Subject: Amway
Organization: LOUISIANA TECH UNIVERSITY
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 18:56:58 CST

    Anyone interested in finding out the truth about Amway should go to the mee
tings. If anyone would like to correspond with an ACTIVE distributor and find o
ut more about it (And yes I may try to make us both some money) send mail to st
32373@vm.cc.latech.edu. I was skeptical til I found out more too...
 
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs,alt.business.multi-level
From: fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz (tmp))
Subject: Re: AMWAY
Followup-To: alt.business.multi-level
Reply-To: Gary Fritz <fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com>
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1scd1 PL4
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 21:53:09 GMT

aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh Friedman) writes:
: The folks in m.e are serious business people who have many more problems then
: the folks in a.b.m besides when are MLM folks going to figure that MLM is only
: the biggest legal scam in history.  

Puh-LEEZE.  Give me a break.

Do we have to get into this name-calling and holier-than-thou garbage?

I'm not going to bother refuting your libellous claims point-by-point.
I will merely say that

  1. Your claims are true for SOME, but NOT ALL, MLMs.  (I might point out
     that they're also true for SOME, but NOT ALL, *non*-MLM businesses.)
     Please have the courtesy not to call us all criminals because of 
     your limited understanding.

  2. Many MLM people, believe it or not, are ALSO serious business people.
     Some of us even have aspirations to benefit society along with you
     "honest business people."

  3. Many MLMs offer excellent products, at very competitive prices.
     Many MLMs have been building solid, reputable businesses for years,
     and people coming in very late in the game still do very well.
     I hate to use the A-word, but there are still people succeeding in
     Amway after 30+ years.  Again, you are insulting a lot of hard-working
     people because of your misconceptions.

  4. I agree we shouldn't be carrying on MLM discussions in misc.entrepeneurs.
     So why in bloody hell did YOU cross-post to m.e?  (I am following up
     to m.e and a.b.m-l just so I can ask people to NOT follow up to both.)

Please.  People.  Have a bit of courtesy and decency.  Don't assume someone
is a raving ripoff artist if you know NOTHING about him or his activities
other than 3 letters.  There's a word for the practice of branding everyone 
in a group with a label and insisting everyone with that label has the
same bad characteristics:  it's called "bigotry".  Let's not have that here.

Gary


FOLLOWUPS TO ALT.BUSINESS.MULTI-LEVEL!!!
Xref: sparky misc.entrepreneurs:2686 alt.business.multi-level:421
From: aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh Friedman)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs,alt.business.multi-level
Subject: Re: AMWAY
Date: 3 Sep 1992 21:08:24 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: cash.ucsc.edu
Organzation: Marsney

	DO NOT Cross Post from alt.business.multi-level to misc.entrepenuers!!!!
The folks in m.e are serious business people who have many more problems then
the folks in a.b.m besides when are MLM folks going to figure that MLM is only
the biggest legal scam in history.  Where the very few and very early comers get
very rich and the folks lower down are stuck with stuff that people don't want
for inflated prices!  On the other hand...

	The folks in m.e are seriouslly tring to start companies that will
benefit them, society, their customers, and their employees.  Note I feel that
ethical business pratices are the only way to survive in the long run, not 
scamming almost everyone like MLM does!!!

Basically if you MLM folks want to ruin the repotation of honest business people
I can't stop you but don't do it in m.e.
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: rubin@cis.ohio-state.edu (Daniel Rubin)
Subject: Followups..
Originator: rubin@chocktaw.cis.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 18:36:01 GMT


I have been following misc.entrepreneurs for a while now.  It seems to me that
there are nothing but questions making up the bulk of the articles in this
newsgroup.  I am thinking that either nobody is answering the questions posted
or they are sending the answers directly to the questionee.  I would love it
if the answers were posted to the newsgroup also.  There is not a major surge
of articles to this group ( I get about 20 a day at the most ) so posting
the answers should not be a problem here...

I am not saying that this group is only questions, but is seems as if answers
are somewhat scarce...

Thanks								 - Dan

-- 
  Daniel Joseph Rubin    |  "...A good football team for the alumni, parking
rubin@cis.ohio-state.edu |  for the faculty and sex for the students."
      GO        GO       |  - President E. Gordon Gee on the three things that
    BENGALS  BUCKEYES    |  a great university president must provide.....
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: danielh@sequent.com (Daniel Hobbs)
Subject: Re: Food  and copyright ???
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 22:41:35 GMT

In article <2465@cronos.metaphor.com> covdy@cronos.metaphor.com (Ivan Covdy) writes:
>
>Suppose, I invented how to make burgers or something similar, 
>that is, such a recipe, which might be used by any restaurant.
>
>Is there a way I can make money on it and protect my authorship?

There was a discussion on this awhile back.  Evidently, the _ingredients_
and _amounts_ of a recipe cannot be copyrighted.  However, your particular
presentation of the recipe can -- thus, you could copyright a particular
set of instructions for preparing the dish, but not the contents of the
dish itself.

That was my understanding; I didn't get it from the U.S. Copyright law...

Dan

Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: burgoyne@highlite.uucp (J. Robert Burgoyne)
Subject: Re: Super fast and inexpensive marketing
Organization: Gotham Communications Research
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 13:55:13 GMT

dlhpfm!dlh@NCoast.org (daniel lance herrick) writes:
: markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Hunk) writes:
: 
: >   If I have a software product that expands on a smaller version which had a
: > proven track record of popularity in the public domain, would it then make
: > sense to start marketing the larger package by a direct mail campaign?
: > 
: This is how the fortunes are made in mail order.
: 
: The list needs to be people who buy mail order.  Not everyone does and
: mail to those who don't is wasted money.  It also needs to be people
: who have use for your product.

I would like to add "recent" mail order buyers. I once rented a list which
claimed to be 100% composed of buyers within the last six months, and
more than 8% of the list was undeliverable. The project lost money for
that and a variety of other reasons.  

: Second, the letter needs to be an effective selling document.  The most
: important thing is to test different letters against each other.  John
: Caples' book Tested Advertising Methods will help you profit some from
: other people's testing.  Claude Hopkins' book Scientific Advertising is
: about why and how to test.

Both are good books. For letters, you should also look into "The Robert
Collier Letter Book". Though dated, it has excellent ideas for how
to write sales letters.

And one final note on direct mail software sales. I don't know about you
folks, but my mailbox brings new offers of heavily discounted name
brand software everyday. This is because sales are falling off for many
companies. Thus, your sales materials have to be as good or better than
the big guys in terms of selling power or you'll fall on your face.

Robert