HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: leecr@microsoft.com (Lee Crocker)
Subject: Re: PGP as a World Standard
Date: 22 Dec 92 03:03:51 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Dec17.215323.1154@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>
>Perry Metzger makes the same ethical error many others have, of
>looking at PGP2.0 in Europe in isolation. Both ethics and
>the law don't do that--they look at the causal chain. There's
>a well established principle about the fruits of a crime. The
>law often confiscates the money gained, for example, from
>insider trading.
>
>PGP 1.0 was a violation of the RSA patents. Consider it having a label
>called "fruits of a violation". That label isn't removed simply
>because it passes over some wires to Europe.  Note carefully: a copy
>of PGP 1.0 brought to Europe from the U.S. is NOT ethically equivalent
>to a PGP 1.0 programmed from scratch in Europe.

You also shouldn't overlook that many consider the only crime
committed here to be the US Government's issuance of the software
patent in the first place.  Even the most die-hard supporters of
property rights, the Libertarians, do not grant that a government
has any moral right to create a monopoly supported solely by
force to prevent the free exchange of information.  Public Key
Partners, to whom the patent was issued, has consistently refused
all attempts by private parties to license the technology at any
price, thereby making it unusable in the US.  They do not produce
any software; they do not provide any service.  They are leeches
on society who keep people out of work and uninformed, and in my
mind, they and the US Patent Office are the criminals here.

-- 
Lee Daniel Crocker    | Free minds; free bodies; free trade.
leecr@microsoft.com   | Libertarian Party  1-800-682-1776
Newsgroups: alt.security
From: paul@grafted.UUCP (james caldwell)
Subject: Re: Just a thought...
Organization: GRAFTED, Central Indiana's Usenet BBS 317-881-4369
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 23:30:06 CST

bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles) writes:

> In article <u0TZuB1w165w@Blue.Kludge.COM> alizard@Blue.Kludge.COM (A.Lizard) 
> >> > o ENCRYPTED, COMPRESSED hard drive.
> >> 
Norton utilities has a program called diskreet that works well at the
sub directory level. I do not know the coding method but it is solid.
                        Paul

--
james caldwell
The Grafted Branch BBS
317-881-4369
internet: paul@grafted.UUCP
uucp: ..!uunet!grafted.UUCP!paul
 = = Grafted Branch BBS (317) 889-6997 2 Gig on-line = =
Xref: sparky alt.security:5204 sci.crypt:6029 talk.politics.guns:25565 talk.politics.misc:65089 alt.security.pgp:357
From: styri@hal.nta.no (Haakon Styri)
Newsgroups: alt.security,sci.crypt,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.misc,alt.security.pgp
Subject: Re: PGP as a World Standard
Date: 22 Dec 92 12:33:29 GMT
Reply-To: styri@nta.no
Organization: Norwegian Telecom Research

In article <1992Dec17.124326.17185@infodev.cam.ac.uk>, rja14@cl.cam.ac.uk 
(Ross Anderson) writes:
>
> Or are you one of those people who claim that the USA should enforce 
> its laws wherever it likes, regardless of other jurisdictions?

Every time I read a statement like this I want to make a reference to the
opening statement in any US passport. Makes a nice touch to the `american
tourist' stereotype, and inspires visions of US marine rescue operations.

---
Haakon Styri
From: marc@tanda.isis.org (Marc Thibault)
Newsgroups: alt.security
Subject: Re: PGP as a World Standard
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 16:19:59 EST
Reply-To: marc@tanda.isis.org
Distribution: na
Organization: Thibault & Friends

In article <9212171304.AA20561@chaos.intercon.com> 
(Amanda Walker) writes: 

> PGP is a worldwide standard?  Funny, I keep reasonable track of ISO/JTC1 
> activities, and I haven't noticed so much as a PGP working group, much less a 
> standardization effort...

        like ZIP, ZOO, QWK, ISA, CUA, MHS, CD-ROM, VHS, DAT ...?

> Widespread use does not a standard make.

        On the contrary; widespread use is exactly what makes a
        standard. What it doesn't do is make an ISO, ANSI, CCITT (or
        other self-appointed group) Standard..ard..ard..ard...;
        that usually comes later.

        Cheers,

                Marc

---
 Marc Thibault        |  Automation Architect        |  The PC: Colt '45
 marc@tanda.isis.org  |  R.R.1, Oxford Mills,        |  of the information
 CIS:71441,2226       |  Ontario, Canada  K0G 1S0    |   frontier
 NC FreeNet: aa185    |                              |

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.0

mQBNAiqxYTkAAAECALfeHYp0yC80s1ScFvJSpj5eSCAO+hihtneFrrn+vuEcSavh
AAUwpIUGyV2N8n+lFTPnnLc42Ms+c8PJUPYKVI8ABRG0I01hcmMgVGhpYmF1bHQg
PG1hcmNAdGFuZGEuaXNpcy5vcmc+
=HLnv
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
From: marc@tanda.isis.org (Marc Thibault)
Newsgroups: alt.security
Subject: Re: PGP v. 2.1 Released
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 16:40:04 EST
Reply-To: marc@tanda.isis.org
Distribution: na
Organization: Thibault & Friends

In article <1992Dec17.001315.18102@netcom.com> 
(David Sternlight) writes: 

> My guess, therefore, is that when ripem is released, which is imminent,
> it will only be available formally to users in the U.S. and Canada and
> some sort of permission/account or other control mechanism will
> continue. In addition to the Munitions Act issues, those who receive
> ripem will have to agree to the RSAREF agreement, and thus some assent
> mechanism is going to be required.

        So what do you think this Canadian is most likely to do: find
        some way to get an account on a distribution system and
        hostage my first-born to get a copy of an inferior product, or
        just go on using PGP?

        BTW: The RSAREF license says it is only available to USA
        citizens so, in spite of the US/Canada codicil to COCOM, it
        appears RSA is not exportable to Canada. OTOH, we get
        Scientific American, so we can only be grateful to R, S and A
        for releasing this idea to the public domain. I wonder if
        the agreement prevents us from exporting what the USA won't
        let us import?

        Cheers,
                Marc

---
 Marc Thibault        |  Automation Architect        |  The PC: Colt '45
 marc@tanda.isis.org  |  R.R.1, Oxford Mills,        |  of the information
 CIS:71441,2226       |  Ontario, Canada  K0G 1S0    |   frontier
 NC FreeNet: aa185    |                              |

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.0

mQBNAiqxYTkAAAECALfeHYp0yC80s1ScFvJSpj5eSCAO+hihtneFrrn+vuEcSavh
AAUwpIUGyV2N8n+lFTPnnLc42Ms+c8PJUPYKVI8ABRG0I01hcmMgVGhpYmF1bHQg
PG1hcmNAdGFuZGEuaXNpcy5vcmc+
=HLnv
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
From: curt@access.digex.com (curt williams)
Newsgroups: alt.security
Subject: VIRUS TOOLKIT
Date: 2 Jan 1993 07:57:06 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com


Has anyone else heard about, or run across, a menu-driven program
that allows a person to build a custom virus for MS-DOS machines.
It was supposed to be for sale in one of the hacker magazines.
Newsgroups: alt.security,sci.crypt
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: PGP as a World Standard
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 00:17:09 GMT


I think Arthur Rubin is wrong about PGP in the U.S. not being covered by
the patent laws against making. Since it infringes RSA, it is an
object covered by the patent laws against making.

David
Xref: sparky alt.security:5211 comp.unix.shell:5136
From: lmcstst@noah.ericsson.se (Stamos Stamos)
Newsgroups: alt.security,comp.unix.shell
Subject: rsh (detect?)
Date: 22 Dec 92 20:52:35 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Communications Inc. Montreal, Canada
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.



Hi,

Is there any way to detect other users running programs via 'rsh' on your 
machine(sun slc)?
Other than running 'ps' every few seconds, and greping the output.


`










--
Stamos <lmcstst@noah.ericsson.se>            ZZR11            Ellas
Ericsson, Cellular Design
Montreal, Canada.
Newsgroups: alt.security,alt.security.pgp
From: jon@ifi.uio.no (Jon lnes)
Newsgroups: alt.security
Subject: Lap-tops and TEMPEST
Date: 22 Dec 92 14:22:09 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Originator: jon@gode.ifi.uio.no

Question: What are the characteristics of radiation from portable/lap-top
computers compared to "ordinary" technology? Tapping a CRT screen is fairly
easy. I would imagine that a LCD screen emits far less radiation. Is any
extra TEMPEST protection recommended/necessary if LCD screens are used?

Jon Olnes, Norwegian Computing Centre, Oslo Norway
E-mail: Jon.Olnes@nr.no   or   jon@ifi.uio.no
Newsgroups: alt.security
From: shaun@octel.com (Attack of the Dayglo Howler Monkeys)
Newsgroups: alt.security,sci.crypt,talk.politics.misc,alt.security.pgp
Subject: Pulling a Sternlight
Date: 22 Dec 92 20:54:03 GMT
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.

strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

About his PGP key, essentially states, "I didn't know it was illegal when
I did it."  

As I am very sure you are aware, ignorance of the law is no excuse.  By
your own arguments and and admission, you are a patent infringer who
has probably been noted down in a number of government files which
"are forever," and in danger of being at the hands of some yippies who
are cleverer than you are. 

It has become clear to me that you should get a tall glass full of your
favorite beverage, a copy of Erik Satie's "Vexations," and should simply
cease posting and stare at a blank wall, as your arguments are so ill-
conceived, so poorly worded, and you are so closed to change yourself 
that asking anyone to accept your arguments as a basis for changing
their own beliefs or behavior is clearly laughable.  

ObCrypto: Is there an archive site for old copies of sci.crypt?  I have
been searching for one for two weeks without success.  I am keenly
interested in finding one, and it's not for big brotherish reasons, either.

PGP 2.1 key forthcoming... 

-- 
shaun@octel.com  ||  Santa Dont's:

                     Santa should avoid short, jerky, nervous movements.
Newsgroups: alt.security
From: vanzwol@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Ted Van Zwol)
Subject: Re: In car security idea
Organization: Boeing
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:01:46 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.121446.26720@spider.co.uk> colint@spider.co.uk (Colin Tinto) writes:
>
>OK, so I know this group is usually computer related security, but just for a 
>wee change...
>
>Car crime is on the increase (in the UK anyway).   Insurance premiums are
>getting ridiculous.   What can be done about it ?

Well, here in the US some car manufactures are starting to do things about it.
I just ran across an article that discussed this topic.  Ford (or was it
Chrysler? probably both) are going about it a different way.  There actually
looking into Satellite tracking.  (Big brother is getting closer!)  I think
the idea was for each car to have a unique signature that would pulse some
kind of base system with it's location (using GPS).  If a vehicle owner
discovered his/her car stolen, then the police could start tracking the
vehicles location.  They even went so far as to say they could disable the
car.

It all sounds fine and groovy, but I have a problem and see a flaw.  First
the flaw:  how hard could it be to disable the stupid transmitter?   Would
it be built into the ignition of the car such that if it were tampered with
the vehicle wouldn't operate?  How hard it would be to overcome that? 

What about privacy.  What if I'm some big time senator who thinks my wife
is out having an affair.  It would be a piece of cake to call up someone
in the department and have them track the cars movements.  And if she did
end up at some guys house, I could have all of their cars immobolized until
I get there and beat them all to a pulp.  I government (anyone?) could start
going around disabling, or at least tracking cars.

To bring this back around to the PGP topics of late, maybe I should start
working on a way to encrypt the signature on my future car?  How can I be
sure someone else hasn't modified their car to transmit the same signature
as mine?  It could have been my car (or at least one transmitting the same
signature as mine) that was at the bank at the time of the robbery.

Just think of all the potential uses, good and bad, ethical and not.

-- 
Ted C Van Zwol                           |    Genius does what it must,
uucp:      {...!}uunet!bcstec!vanzwol    |    Talent does what it can.
internet:  vanzwol@bcstec.ca.boeing.com  |                  -Emerson
                         ^^^^ new...
From: alpert@cs.bu.edu (Richard Alpert)
Newsgroups: alt.security
Subject: Re: car security idea
Summary: another solution
Keywords: technology
Date: 22 Dec 92 18:31:33 GMT
Followup-To: alt.security
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Princeton University

In article <1992Dec21.121446.26720@spider.co.uk> colint@spider.co.uk
		(Colin Tinto) writes: 
>[ . . . ]
>Car crime is on the increase (in the UK anyway).   Insurance premiums are
>getting ridiculous.   What can be done about it ?
>
>Well, in this technology filled age - why not put a closed circuit video
>system in your car ?

There is a less expensive, equally (or more) effective solution available here
now.  Test marketed in Massachusetts for several years, "LoJack" is a system
consisting of a hidden transmitter emitting a unique identity code.  The
transmitter can be enabled only by police, and (putatively) only upon proof of
ownership.  Police then cruise around with onboard directional receivers, and
zero in on the thieves before they have the chance to get very far or do any
damage.

There are, of course, security and privacy issues, and the possibility of
abuse, but no more than any other time a government agency uses technology.

The entire in-car transmitter is hidden, sealed in a steel box.  The system
costs around $500 and gives its owner a hefty discount on comprehensive
insurance (which includes theft).

"LoJack" is just becoming available in New Jersey and, I suspect, other states
as well.

  -- Richard Alpert

  alpert@princeton.edu
  alpert@cs.bu.edu


I AM NOT AFFILIATED WITH "LOJACK" IN ANY WAY (I DON'T EVEN OWN ONE) AND DO NOT
GAIN FROM SALES OF THEIR PRODUCTS.
Newsgroups: alt.security
From: markh@wimsey.bc.ca (Mark C. Henderson)
Subject: Re: PGP v. 2.1 Released
Organization: Wimsey Information Services
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 21:02:19 GMT

In article <72224808DN5.61R@tanda.isis.org> marc@tanda.isis.org writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.001315.18102@netcom.com> 
>(David Sternlight) writes: 
>
>        So what do you think this Canadian is most likely to do: find
>        some way to get an account on a distribution system and
>        hostage my first-born to get a copy of an inferior product, or
>        just go on using PGP?
>
>        BTW: The RSAREF license says it is only available to USA
>        citizens so, in spite of the US/Canada codicil to COCOM, it
>        appears RSA is not exportable to Canada. OTOH, we get
>        Scientific American, so we can only be grateful to R, S and A
>        for releasing this idea to the public domain. I wonder if
>        the agreement prevents us from exporting what the USA won't
>        let us import?

Actually, if you read a recent version of the RSAREF licence,
you'll notice that RSAREF is available in Canada.

Mark
-- 
Mark Henderson
markh@wimsey.bc.ca
RIPEM key available by key server/finger/E-mail
Newsgroups: alt.security,sci.crypt,talk.politics.misc,alt.security.pgp
From: vince@ghost.dsi.unimi.it (David Vincenzetti)
Subject: Re: Pulling a Sternlight
Organization: Computer Science Dep. - Milan University
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:54:07 GMT

In <bontchev.725104572@fbihh> bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Vesselin Bontchev) writes:
>I think that Mr. Vinzetti (sp?) mentioned some time ago that sci.crypt
>is archived on ghost.dsi.unimi.it, but I am not very certain about
>this...

``Archived'': well, I just save all the expired articles in the
ftp@ghost:/pub/crypt/sci.crypt directory. Not very handy since the
articles are saved as files with sequential numbers as filenames.

Regards,
David
-- 
David Vincenzetti, system administrator
Department of Computer Science,         Email: vince@ghost.dsi.unimi.it
via Comelico 41, 20135 Milan, ITALY     Phone: ++39 2 55006 39{1,2}
$PUBLIC KEY available by finger(1)$     Fax  : ++39 2 55006 373
Newsgroups: alt.security,sci.crypt,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.misc,alt.security.pgp
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: PGP as a World Standard
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:43:09 GMT


Vesselin Bontchev says he accepts the law professor's partisan
statement of opinion without considering my counter-arguments
because he is a lawyer and I am not.

Since the professor's message clearly is mostly opinion, and
by his language he reveals partisanship at the end, I suggest
that Vesselin's position is a straight appeal to authority,
without considering the substance.

That seems very odd to me, given that most of those arguing against my
position explicitly reject authority when it doesn't suit their
arguments.

David

Newsgroups: alt.security,sci.crypt,talk.politics.misc,alt.security.pgp
From: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Vesselin Bontchev)
Subject: Re: Pulling a Sternlight
Reply-To: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de
Organization: Virus Test Center, University of Hamburg
Date: 23 Dec 92 09:56:12 GMT

shaun@octel.com (Attack of the Dayglo Howler Monkeys) writes:

> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

> About his PGP key, essentially states, "I didn't know it was illegal when
> I did it."  

Which just means that he has not read the docs, because they clearly
say that usage of PGP in the USA might be a patent infringement and
advise the US users to consult a lawyer.

> ObCrypto: Is there an archive site for old copies of sci.crypt?  I have
> been searching for one for two weeks without success.  I am keenly
> interested in finding one, and it's not for big brotherish reasons, either.

I think that Mr. Vinzetti (sp?) mentioned some time ago that sci.crypt
is archived on ghost.dsi.unimi.it, but I am not very certain about
this...

Regards,
Vesselin
-- 
Vesselin Vladimirov Bontchev          Virus Test Center, University of Hamburg
Tel.:+49-40-54715-224, Fax: +49-40-54715-226      Fachbereich Informatik - AGN
< PGP 2.1 public key available on request. > Vogt-Koelln-Strasse 30, rm. 107 C
e-mail: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de    D-2000 Hamburg 54, Germany
From: colint@spider.co.uk (Colin Tinto)
Newsgroups: alt.security
Subject: In car security idea
Date: 21 Dec 92 12:14:46 GMT
Followup-To: alt.security
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK


OK, so I know this group is usually computer related security, but just for a 
wee change...

An idea:

Car crime is on the increase (in the UK anyway).   Insurance premiums are
getting ridiculous.   What can be done about it ?

Well, in this technology filled age - why not put a closed circuit video
system in your car ?

All it needs is a small camera pointing at where a driver would sit, and
a normal alarm trigger system to start the small video recorder hidden
somewhere out of sight.   The camera would be hidden as well, maybe behind
the dashboard...

I have seen cameras (with output directly to a video) that are less than
1 inch in diameter, and about 2 or 3 inches long.   OK, so these would be
a bit expensive, but it would be worth it to protect a BMW or Merc worth
40 or 50 thousand dollars.

This would result in a lot more car theifs getting caught, and a reduction
in crime.

OK, so some would eventually wear a mask or something, but they would look
rather suspicous driving around in one...


---

OK, its Christmas, I'm bored, and I'm rambling :-)


-- 
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\
!   Colin Tinto			!  Time Travel Parcel Deliveries Inc          !
!   colint@spider.co.uk		!  The only courier with previous day service.!
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Newsgroups: alt.security,sci.crypt,talk.politics.misc,alt.security.pgp
From: sowa@netcom.com (Erik Sowa)
Subject: Re: Pulling a Sternlight
Organization: Wahoo 5
	<1992Dec17.170326.21409@netcom.com> <1992Dec22.205403.4213@octel.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 18:23:44 GMT

"I generated a key pair, but I didn't encrypt."
-- 
Erik Sowa (sowa@netcom.com)
Newsgroups: alt.security
From: markh@wimsey.bc.ca (Mark C. Henderson)
Subject: Re: "Pretty Good Privacy"? What's up with this in USA?
Organization: Wimsey Information Services
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 21:13:31 GMT

In article <588320302DN5.61R@tanda.isis.org> marc@tanda.isis.org writes:
>In article <6834@dciem.dciem.dnd.ca> 
>(Thomas Gee) writes: 
>
>> Now, I'm confused here.  I was under the impression that American patent law
>> had no authority in Canada.  Most specifically, Canada does not recognize
>> American software patents.
>
>        Right. The best information I have is that the RSA patents are
>        not recognised anywhere outside the USA. I also have it on
>        good authority that the COCOM agreement prevents us from
>        exporting PGP, but that we can use it ourselves without risk.

It seems that RSADSI and PKP believe that their patents on public 
key cryptography apply in Canada. The essential question probably is,
for which of the U.S. Patents on public key cryptography
was a corresponding Canadian patent granted.

Mark
-- 
Mark Henderson
markh@wimsey.bc.ca
RIPEM key available by key server/finger/E-mail
Organization: Hidden - I don't speak for them...
X-Stuff:      <This should be witty, but I'm too tired right now.>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:40:48 EST
From: David B. Horvath, CDP <MBADBH@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com>
Newsgroups: alt.security
Subject: Re: "Pretty Good Privacy"? What's up with this in USA?
Distribution: na
 <588320302DN5.61R@tanda.isis.org>

The licensee of the RSA patents is willing to issue personal licenses for
the use of their algorithms and code.  It seems to me that one could get
the license ($0.00 - USA and Canada only) to RSA and then *personally* use
PGP under that license.

misc.legal anyone?

   - David
Newsgroups: alt.security,sci.crypt,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.misc,alt.security.pgp