From: reykja@fc.hp.com (Reykja Sigurdsson)
Subject: Re: any atheist pagans out there?
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 00:00:52 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

G. Wolfe Woodbury (wolfe@wolves.uucp) wrote:
: >: >It *has* to have some meaning. Otherwise, why do we bother? But then, how
: >: >do you define beauty and truth? That is certainly subjective. Anyone who
: >: >tries to tell me that there is meaning and purpose in the mundane lives
: >: >of most people is simply full of crap. So -- is it a conscious choice we
:     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  <note this sentence>
: 
: >: >make to "opt out" of the everyday concerns -- working for someone else,
: >: >produce-and-consume, acquisition -- for something more meaningful? 
: >: 
: 
: 	This is a far cry from your statement that mundane lives meanings
: are "crap". 

Yes. It *is* a far cry from that. I can see where the statement taken
out of context can seem the other way. 

My main point remains that, in order to find meaning, we have to get out
of the sick cycle this culture perpetuates. Produce-and-consume means
absolutely nothing and has no significant value. Those who are caught
up in that (which is bloody well most of us!) have to begin to look
beyond that. 

I fundamentally disagree with your premise that life is meaningful 
simply because it is life. Is anything meaningful simply because it
exists?  I think not. Life's value is determined by that which we 
contribute to our environment. I don't see where we have contributed
a lot. We have raped the earth beyond all comprehension, we live for
self-gratification and sensation. 

I have always had a problem understanding the love-is-the-answer, New-Age
ding-dongs who try to say that *all* life has value and it all has 
equal value. I have a problem with the idea that every action has
meaning. Is the life of the mold in my refrigerator as valuable as that
of your life or my own? Hardly!

: >: You have some kind of worth that they don't?
: >
: 
Okay! Okay! Grammar alert! I should have said 'we' instead of them. 
So pillory me!

: 	Note the part of your paragraph that I underscored with '^'s
: above.  The implication is read from your statement that "Anyone who tries
: to tell me that there is meaning and purpose in the mundane lives of
: most people is full of crap."   I can't see much of any other way to
: respond when you say that something is crap.
: 
I can only say what my reaction would be. I would say "why do you think
that is crap?" I would want to know the motivation for that conclusion. 
I would want more detail. 


: 	Life, in and of itself, is plenty of meaning.  The pure miracle
: of life, totally without regard for the mental state of the liver, has
: its own purpose.
: 
And what is that purpose in your opinion?

: 	You may not recognize the inherent worth of that life, or the
: dignity that is due for the person *simply because they are alive*, but
: I see in that life a spark of the divine, and I will honor that.
: 
If that works for you, that's great. I choose to honor those who are
deserving of honor. As I mentioned above, I disagree with the premise
that all life has value. I can not say that the life of Adolf Hitler 
or Jeffrey Dahmer has value. It is an abberation.

: 	You make your meaning clear, and it merely confirms what I was
: reacting to in your attitude.
: -- 
There is not really much I can do about that. We disagree, clear and
simple. But -- I will still look forward to your posts. I think they
are thought-provoking and I truly enjoy them. You are obviously an
extremely intelligent person, clear-thinking and interesting and I 
hope you will continue. 

Sometimes it is best to just agree to disagree. 


wassail..


//rks
(Island's Child. I am on  my work account)


: G. Wolfe Woodbury @ The Wolves Den, Durham NC	[This site is NOT affiliated  ]
: wolfe@wolves.durham.nc.us			[with Duke University! Idiots!]
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:     Above All, we celebrate!  --Celebrate the Circle, Statement of Purpose.
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