HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: comp.society.futures,alt.fax
Subject: Re: Future of fax?
From: Mariusz@fbits.ttank.com (Mariusz Stanczak)
Date: 7 Apr 92 07:08:20 GMT
Followup-To: comp.society.futures
Organization: Forth Bits, Los Angeles, USA
Keywords: fax,e-mail,networks

In article <1992Apr05.164633.5944@uuisis.isis.org> doug@uuisis.isis.org (Doug Thompson) writes:
>In article <1992Apr4.000834.1705@pegasus.com> shaw@pegasus.com (Sandy Shaw) writes:
>
>>A friend of mine, who is a communications consultant, seems to think that
>>fax is of limited utility especially in the future.
[...]
Hey, anything we use today will be of limited use in the (sufficiently
distant) future.  What time frame does your friend have in mind.
IMHO, modem technology/FAX will be with us for any forseeable future
(that is for the next 10 years).

>FAX is expensive, inefficient (of human and machine resources) and slow
>compared to e-mail. It is also of relatively limited utility.
[etc... a pretty exhaustive analysis of the future of FAX elided]

Doug, I agree with your statement that FAX is an "'intermediate
technology'", but its drawbacks are somewhat remedied by the
trend of putting FAX capabilities into the new crop of fast
modems (V.32bis+14.4 FAX) (applicable to any computer system)
or directly on the PC bus (applicable to PCs).  This fact makes
your main argument against FAX as being a paper to paper medium
much weaker (makes for a great sales pitch though ;-)) and it puts
FAX on par with "e-mail" transmission of graphics data.

-Mariusz
-- 
INET: Mariusz@fbits.ttank.com
UUCP: ..!uunet!longbow!ttank!fbits!Mariusz
From: callahan@itr.wa.com (John Callahan)
Newsgroups: comp.society.futures,alt.fax
Subject: Re: Future of fax?
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 00:19:05 PDT
Organization: Information Technology Research, Seattle, U.S.A.
Reply-To: callahan@itr.wa.com (John Callahan)
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.5v4


In article <1992Apr05.164633.5944@uuisis.isis.org> (comp.society.futures,alt.fax), doug@uuisis.isis.org (Doug Thompson) writes:
> In article <1992Apr4.000834.1705@pegasus.com> shaw@pegasus.com (Sandy Shaw) writes:
> 
> >A friend of mine, who is a communications consultant, seems to think that
> >fax is of limited utility especially in the future.
> >
> >He says that all his clients that send either long faxes frequently or
> >many faxes, especially to international locations, end up switching
> >to other forms of communication, network, e-mail, etc.  He thinks
> >that as companies use fax technology more they will gravitate towards
> >the other media.
> 
> >Is fax only the tool of smaller companies or departments, or is it destined
> >to be (is it now) a prime-mover for some larger firms?
> 
> FAX is expensive, inefficient (of human and machine resources) and slow
> compared to e-mail. It is also of relatively limited utility.
> 
> I think FAX is an 'intermediate technology' sort of half-way between the
> paper-mail/memo reality of the past and the instant machine-to-machine
> communication of the future. I believe that it will fade away in time,
> especially as OCRs, digitizers, and bitmapped imaging make it possible
> to e-mail a picture, or a signature, for example.

Many years ago, about 1977 I believe, I forecast the death of facsimile in
a report that I wrote for a leading computer industry market research firm.
My rationale was quite simple: Within a very few years we would all have compatible
communicating word processors and there would be no need for facsimile.

I was wrong, of course, and so are the people who are now forecasting the
death of facsimile.  

Facsimile has three distinct characteristics:

	Fax is cheap (at least the initial purchase);

	Fax is simple (have you ever tried to use vi?);

	Fax is ubiquitous.

It is the last two characteristics that give facsimile its current competitive
advantage.  Until networked computer systems are as simple to use as fax machines
and as ubiquitous as fax machines, facsimile will be with us no matter how
eloquent the arguments proving the inefficiency of facsimile.



---
John Callahan (callahan@itr.wa.com)          SnailMail:
UUCP:  uunet!nwnexus!itr!callahan              Information Technology Reserach
VOICE: (206) 283-5100                          220 West Mercer,   Suite 500
FAX:   (206) 283-5151                          Seattle, WA  98109     U.S.A.
From: lkomito@ccvax.ucd.ie
Newsgroups: comp.society.futures,alt.fax
Subject: Re: Future of fax?
Date: 7 Apr 92 10:22:03 GMT
Organization: University College Dublin

In article <1992Apr05.164633.5944@uuisis.isis.org>, doug@uuisis.isis.org (Doug Thompson) writes:
> 
> Fax requires that you print out your computer file, tediously and very
> slowly and expensively transmit a picture of the print-out, and what you
> receive is on paper, and not machine-readable. For people oriented
> toward paper-based communication that is just fine. I do think that over
> time more people will become oriented toward computer mediated
> communication in which FAX looks like the Gull Quill Pen. Sure, it
> works. So does the fountain pen, the ballpoint pen, the typewriter and
> the word processor. So does e-mail.

The only problem is that this presumes that you start with text or 
graphics in a computer. While some of the objections to email will
diminish (problems of creating correct addresses, finding correct
addresses, etc), there is still the difficulty that not everyone
works in an environment in which there is a computer on every desk.
For someone who works in a paper environment, it is *much* simplier
to write the note and send it by FAX than write the note, get it
into a computer somewhere, and then figure out how to send to someone
else (who may still have to get it downloaded and printed before
he/she can read it!). Of course one can assume that everyone will,
sooner rather than later, have a computer or terminal on their desk,
but would everyone agree with such an assumption?

-- 
Lee Komito  lkomito@irlearn.ucd.ie
Sociology Dept.; University College Dublin; Belfield, Dublin 4, Ireland
lkomito@irlearn (Bitnet), Phone +353 1 706-7106, FAX +353 1 269-4409
Xref: sparky comp.society.futures:226 comp.society.development:102
From: mss2@quads.uchicago.edu (Michael S. Schiffer)
Newsgroups: comp.society.futures,comp.society.development
Subject: Re: Suppressing innovations (was Mander and Television)
Date: 12 Apr 92 20:15:46 GMT
Reply-To: mss2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Apr10.045543.10287@norton.com> brian@norton.com (Brian Yoder) writes:

>Moral theories are like any other kind of theory.  They are valid if
>they correspond to reality.  
...
>other (etc.).  In both cases, the goodness is based on how well it
>achieves the purpose to which it is being put.  So what is the purpose
>of your life?  Ultimately it is to live (which entails doing all of
>the things necessary for that).  To say that the purpose of your life
>is to do something other than live would be a contradiction.

Well, it's an interesting theory.  But it suggests that sacrificing a
thousand innocents to save one's own life, using one's children to
shield oneself from a sniper, and betraying people to whom one has
promised loyalty, in exchange for the enemy's protection, would be
"good" acts.  I seriously doubt you'll find many people who'll
consider that a "valid moral theory".

>Now, to address the specific question, we have defined what a moral
>theory is ("A theory that tells one what one ought to do.") and we
>have defined what unists, and the followers of Jim Jones were dismal
>in this respect.  A valid theory of morality can be checked out by
>looking at the real world consequences of various choices and
>reasoning about them.  It's not just a matter of subjective choice
>where Jim Jones' choice to drink poison KoolAid is no better or worse
>than Edison's choice to invent the light bulb.

Right.  And Stalin's decision to murder tens of millions was _not_
immoral (since he lived to a ripe old age and never placed his life
in serious jeopardy, while killing anyone who looked threatening) while
the people who died trying to hold back tanks in Moscow last August
_were_ immoral, since they threw their lives away.  Your privilege
to believe so, but I have to hope you're in a minority.

Mike
-- 
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS	"Never let your sense of morality prevent
mss2@midway.uchicago.edu	 you from doing what's right!"
mike.schiffer@um.cc.umich.edu	 --Mayor Salvor Hardin of Terminus
mss2@usite-next.uchicago.edu     Isaac Asimov, _Foundation_
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 19:14 EST
From: ALLENS%EARLHAM.BITNET@UICVM.UIC.EDU
Subject: Re: Removing currency...the effect on societyREAD/NEW
Newsgroups: comp.society
From: allens@yang.earlham.edu (Allen Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.society,alt.society.civil-liberty
Subject: Re: Removing currency...the effect on societyREAD/NEW
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:14:23 EST
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana
News-Moderator: Approval required for posting to comp.society

In article <1992Apr10.212549.13920@informix.com>, infmx!.LOCAL!billd@uunet.UU.NE
   T (William Daul) writes:
> I am not sure this is the right place to start this...perhaps it should be
> some political group but, oh well...here goes...
>
> Have people been concerned with the proliferation of point-of-sale
> devices and the long term implications...a cash-less society?  Won't
> this lead to a major loss in privacy?  Are we heading off in this
> direction without complaining?  If people are complaining, who are
> they complaining to?
>
        I have a couple of methods of resisting the trend of traceable
cash (BTW, I believe England had traceable cash (Bank of England Notes) up
until sometime ago (after WWI)). First, I resist using credit whenever
possible (I only own a credit card (max limit 500$) because of the
possibility of emergencies)). Second, I withdraw cash from the bank and
use it instead of checks.
        Admittedly, I'm not always consistent in this; if I forget to go
to the bank, I'll use a check. But I try.
        -Allen
Message-Id:  <06APR92.11188440.0146.MUSIC@MARISTB>
Date:        Mon, 06 Apr 92 10:21:34 EST
From:        "John F. McMullen (at Marist)" <KNXD@MARISTB>
Subject: Computer crime, hackers & 1st Amend
Newsgroups: comp.society

There will be a 2-hour panel discussion on "Computer Crime & First
Amendment Concerns" at 10:30AM on Sunday, April 12th at the 17th
annual Trenton Computer Festival (TCF'92). I will moderate the panel
which will be composed of Donald Delaney, New York State Police Senior
Investigator responsible for computer crime and telecommunications
fraud; Mike Godwin, in-house counsel, Electronic Frontier Foundation
(EFF); Emmanuel Goldstein, editor & publisher - "2600:The Hacker
Quarterly; and Phiber Optik, well-know hacker (previously arrested by
Delaney).

TCF is the oldest computer festival/show in the world, preceeding even
the legendary "West Coast Computer Faire". It is held on Saturday &
Sunday, April 11 & 12th at Mercer County College, outside of Trenton, NJ
It will contain over 170 commercial exhibits, the largest computer flea
market on the East Coast (8 acres) and 2 days of seminars, talks and
panel dicussions. The keynote spreaker (Saturday - 3:00PM) is Paul
Grayson, CEO of Micrografx.

The New York Amateur Computer Club (NYACC), on of the festival's
co-sponsors, is providing bus service from New York City to and from
TCF. A bus leaves 11th Street and 6th Avenue at 8:00AM on Saturday and
8:30 on Sunday (The Sunday bus originates in Long Island). For details,
call Lewis Tanner (212 928-0577 between 7&9PM).
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 20:32:16 EDT
From: "Stevan Harnad" <harnad@Princeton.EDU>
Message-Id: <9204080032.AA23605@clarity.Princeton.EDU>
Subject: Re: Usenet and Archiving of Electronic Journals
Newsgroups: comp.society

> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 92 20:07:46 -0400
> From: Edward Vielmetti <emv@msen.com>
>
> From earlier discussion, I take it to mean that the standard Usenet
> practice of "moderation" doesn't fall into your peer review category,
> mostly because there's a single moderator and not a community of peers,
> and becuase the reviews and the moderation are hardly anonymous.

No, Usenet "moderation" is definitely not peer review (see literature
below). The hallmark of peer review, however, is not anonymity but peer
status and competence. The self-appointed moderators of most of the
Usenet groups that are concerned with scholarly/scientific discussion
have no special qualification or expertise, which likewise has to be
assessed by peer review -- not by the general public, but by the
specialists in each given field of expertise.

> Usenet tends to be community-based and self-sustaining; if some people
> make a few bucks along the way in order for the whole process to go
> forward, that's what it takes.  It remains to be seen whether more
> peer-reviewed forums (e.g. comp.sources.reviewed) pop up; given the
> costs of coordinating a multiple-reviewer system it may be sufficiently
> unwieldy to discourage all but a few.

Nothing wrong with a few bucks being made (1) if the service performed
is essential to electronic journal publication and (2) it is not
available for free or for less.

Stevan Harnad
--------------------
Harnad, S. (1979) Creative disagreement. The Sciences 19: 18 - 20.

Harnad, S. (ed.) (1982) Peer commentary on peer review: A case study in
scientific quality control, New York: Cambridge University Press.

Harnad, S. (1984) Commentaries, opinions and the growth of scientific
knowledge. American Psychologist 39: 1497 - 1498.

Harnad, S. (1985) Rational disagreement in peer review. Science,
Technology and Human Values 10: 55 - 62.

Harnad, S. (1986) Policing the Paper Chase. (Review of S. Lock, A
difficult balance: Peer review in biomedical publication.)
Nature 322: 24 - 5.

Harnad, S. (1990) Scholarly Skywriting and the Prepublication Continuum
of Scientific Inquiry.  Psychological
Science 1: 342 - 343 (reprinted in Current Contents 45: 9-13, November
11 1991).

Harnad, S. (1991) Post-Gutenberg Galaxy: The Fourth Revolution in the
Means of Production of Knowledge. Public-Access Computer Systems Review
2 (1): 39 - 53 (also reprinted in PACS Annual Review Volume 2
1992; and in R. D. Mason (ed.) Computer Conferencing: The Last Word. Beach
Holme Publishers, 1992; and in A. L. Okerson (ed.) Directory of
Electronic Journals, Newsletters, and Academic Discussion Lists, 2nd
edition. Washington, DC, Association of Research Libraries, Office of
Scientific & Academic Publishing, 1992).

Harnad, S. (1992) Interactive Publication: Extending the
American Physical Society's Discipline-Specific Model for Electronic
Publishing. Serials Review, Special Issue on Economics Models for
Electronic Publishing, pp. 58 - 61.
From: yadav@vikram.doe.ernet.in (U.S.Yadav)
Subject: ADVT. FOR RECRUITMENT
Message-Id: <1992Apr9.052019.12068@vikram.doe.ernet.in>
Organization: Department of electronics, New Delhi, India
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 05:20:19 GMT
Newsgroups: comp.society

                        ADVERTISEMENT FOR RECRUITMENT


         head - education and training


        cmc  -  the largest computer service company  from  india,  is
        looking for a person to head its education sector  operations.
        cmc is a 2400 person company with services including  hardware
        maintenance, software development, consultancy,  network-value
        added  services,  education and  training  and  turnkey/system
        integration.  customers  include  railways,  power  utilities,
        banks  and  securities, government and industry in  india  and
        abroad.

        cmc plans to expand its educational activities and use  modern
        and  innovative methods to offer products and services to  the
        education  and  training sector.  the  chosen  person  should,
        therefore,  be one with vision, dynamism and must be  able  to
        inspire  and  lead  a  group of  professional  staff  in  this
        endeavour.   he  should  have  high  &  relevant   educational
        background and demonstrated ability in information technology.
        it  is expected that the person will be in his forties  though
        this is not essential.

        cmc  has  on-going  activities in  developing  and  conducting
        training   programmes,   generating   audio-visual    training
        materials,  computer  based training, and software  to  assist
        educational  organisations.    cmc also provides  services  to
        educational   institutions   such   as   maintenance,   system
        integration, etc.  all these and other new projects need to be
        further expanded and extended globally.

        initial  response  giving  background  and  interests  of  the
        applicant could be sent by end april 1992 to:

                                mr robin basu
                             vice president, it&o
                                 cmc limited
                             1, kiokri, ring road
                              opp. maharani bagh
                             new delhi - 110 014

                                      or

                                    e-mail

                             rnb@cmcdel.ernet.in
                                     or
                             ppg@vikram.ernet.in
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 11:18:08 EDT
From: "Stevan Harnad" <harnad@Princeton.EDU>
Subject: re:EJOURNALS AVAILABLE VIA USENET
Newsgroups: comp.society

Below, Timo Harmo points out the important alternative that I omitted:
That an already established Listserv group can establish a Usenet feed
without having to go through the formality of a vote. -- SH

> Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 10:54:00 EET
> From: "TIMO HARMO (FAC. OF SOCSCI U OF HELSINKI)" <HARMO@CC.HELSINKI.FI>
> Comments: To: ARACHNET@acadvm1.uottawa.ca
>
> >  with a readership of 200 or more are POTENTIALLY on Usenet,
> > because all that is needed is an affirmative vote of about that
> > many in order to establish a new Usenet group. This is how
> > PSYCOLOQUY created its
>
> There is also a easier way. If you want to establish a link to Usenet,
> you can:
> 1. Get the agreement of the people in the list (it is enough if there
>  are no serious objections, you don't have to vote)
> 2. state your wish in bit.admin (again, hoping that there will be no serious
> objections)
> 3. get the agreement of the postmaster of your listserv-site and of the
> news-gateway you'll be using, and get these two to co-operate to
> establish the link (most bitnet-list are gatewayed thru ... was it
> American University, american.edu I think)
>
> You will find more detailed instructions in bit.admin, they make a regular
> posting of it.
> I don't think any worth-while list will be refused a link.
>
>  -Timo Harmo, harmo@cc.helsinki.fi
From: mhart@blackjack.dt.navy.mil (Michael Hart)
Newsgroups: comp.society
Subject: Re: USENET Censorship at Iowa State University
Message-Id: <mhart.702902672@blackjack>
Date: 10 Apr 92 10:44:32 GMT


In <1992Apr6.201903.18335@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca>
 cs4cb3ii@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Group I) writes:

>In article <1992Apr5.205935.29334@m.cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu
> (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>>If your library is like most, it does not keep a record of the books
>>you check out.

>Sure it does.  Every library I have ever been to has eventually come after
>me for my overdue books.  Whether or not this information can be
>used, or in what manner it can be used is controlled, but libraries do
>at some time, know what books you have.

I've worked for a library computer system vendor, and a library system.
One of the most sacred tenents of the systems provided was that of
privacy.  There were capabilities built into the systems that would
allow the libraries to save, in a log form, all past transactions.
I've been involved with about 30 library systems;
NOT A SINGLE ONE EVEN KEPT RECORDS OF PATRON BORROWING once an item
was returned.

>I would also be willing to bet
>that most computerized library systems keep track of your old
>records, at least until that particular database record is 'overwritten'
>by a new borrower/book record.  Perhaps someone with more knowledge
>of computerization in library book checkout could write a comp.risks
>article. (?)

Negative.  In the systems I've been in contact with, once an item is
returned, the link between patron and item is broken, and, short of
taking a disk drive out of service and exploring it sector by sector,
there is no way to 'back-track' a patrons' borrowing history.

--
|   Michael G. Hart                   mhart@blackjack.dt.navy.mil    |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|     You think _I_ speak for the government or the navy?  HAH!      |
| Aviation, computers, quality improvement, Northern Exposure, money |
Newsgroups: comp.society
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: USENET Censorship at Iowa State University
Message-Id: <1992Apr7.192956.6898@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 19:29:56 GMT

In article <1992Apr5.205935.29334@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu > (Carl M. Kadie) writes:

>If your library is like most, it does not keep a record of the books
>you check out.

I meant to say that if it is like most, it does not keep a record of
the books you check out *after you return them*. Moreover, no library
that I know of maintains an explicit list of people-who-read-material-
that-discusses-sex.

- Carl
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
From: MCULNAN@guvax.georgetown.edu
Newsgroups: comp.society
Subject: Re: USENET Censorship at Iowa State University
Date: 10 Apr 92 14:02:00 GMT

Re the sanctity of library records, while this is supposed to be the
way it is, it is *not* always so unfortunately in states where there
is no law.

I recently participated in a workshop on ethics for librarians in a
large state.  One of the participants described a situation where
there had been a hit-and-run accident in the parking lot.  The cops
wanted the records of everyone who had checked materials out during
the preceeding 30 minutes.  The librarian initially refused, but was
overruled by her superior/local attorney general.  When I asked why
she didn't take a stronger stand (insist on a supoena for e.g. or leak
the story to the local newspapers), she said she was afraid of losing
her job or that a story in the papers would jeopardize the library's
funding.

Since most people seem to assume library records to be confidential,
in the absence of this (situation above), some notice to the public
would seem appropriate.

Mary Culnan
School of Business Administration
Georgetown University
MCULNAN @ GUVAX.GEORGETOWN.EDU
From: stevek@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Steve Kauder)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 23:19:35 GMT
Subject: Dislike Passport [Encore, Master Tracks Pro]
Organization: HP Fort Collins, CO
Newsgroups: comp.music


Well, about three weeks ago, I posted a "Wow! Encore for Windows" note
just after I got this product.  I still like it and use it a lot.  But,
it has a lot of bugs -- all of which I can workaround.  One example is
that cut and paste of sections of music must be handled carefully and
with small chunks which do not span page boundaries.

So, I've call Passport's technical support.  I have two issues here.
First, I know more than technical support!  Second, I leave them
messages (they are rarely there) with descriptions of problems.  I get
a call back along with instructions to call -- but I cannot get them
to ever leave an answer on my answering machine.  Grrr...

Finally, I already have their sequencer, Master Tracks Pro for Windows.
They just sent me an upgrade offer to their latest version.  Only $199
for a package that only cost me $275.  I'd rather wait and buy Cakewalk
for Windows than pay very nearly the purchase price for an upgrade.
[FYI, their latest letter, only $149!]

I think these guys need to wake up before they lose me and other customers.

R's,

Steve Kauder                        Phone: 303-229-3541 
UTD Support and Learning Products   Unix Mail: stevek@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com

"Computers, Music, Astrology, The Course in Miracles, what's next??"