HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.latin-america,soc.culture.misc,soc.culture.usa,soc.misc,talk.abortion,talk.environment,talk.politics.drugs,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Perot's "Platform" Posted to the Usenet
Summary: I encourage everybody to read it.
Date: 14 Oct 92 00:03:09 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)


Perot's detailed stand on many issues was posted today in four parts to the
following newsgroups:

     alt.politics.perot
     alt.politics.elections
     talk.politics.misc

Subject: Perots Economic Plan


It apparently was excerpted from his best-selling book.  It is fairly long
when the four parts are combined, over 170K.  I'll admit that I am not sure
that the poster (it was not me) had permission to post this to Usenet, but
the "damage" has been done.  I'm sure Perot would like his views disseminated
to as large of an audience as possible, and the electronic ether is one of
Perot's more favored means of communication, bypassing the interpretation and
vagaries of the Press (tm).


Note:  I'm posting this notification here since Perot touches upon issues
pertinent to this newsgroup.


*****************************************************************************
IF (note the 'if') you cannot access the above newsgroups, I can e-mail the
document to you - just send me your request.  Please share it with others.
*****************************************************************************

Carefully read this document before deciding on who you will vote for
President come Election Day.  And of course, get off your kaziski (a.k.a.
butt) and VOTE!

Jon Noring

-- 
=============================================================================
| Jon Noring          | noring@netcom.com        | "The dogs bark, but the  |
| JKN International   | IP    : 192.100.81.100   |  caravan moves on."      |
| 1312 Carlton Place  | Phone : (510) 294-8153   | "Pack your lunch, sit in |
| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 862-1101   |  the bushes, and watch." |
=============================================================================
"If your annual income today is $50,000, you have the same buying power as
the average coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John
Sestina, nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner;  quoted in 1987.

------->   VOTE FOR PEROT IN '92
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: IPS: ANGOLA: NO LONGER HEROES, CRIPPLED VETERANS FIGHT ON /REPEAT/
Originator: barnhart@gagme
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 03:47:47 GMT

Copyright Inter Press Service 1992, all rights reserved.  Permission to re-
print within 7 days of original date only with permission from 'newsdesk'.

Title: ANGOLA: NO LONGER HEROES, CRIPPLED VETERANS FIGHT ON /REPEAT/


lubango, angola, oct 8 (ips/ruby ofori) -- sometimes at night
when his room-mates are sleeping, former sergeant jose boniface
lies awake overwhelmed with regret and frustration, crippled by
the civil war.

in an interview with ips in the wretched room he shares in
lubango, southern angola, with five other ex-soldiers belonging
to the ruling mpla's former fighting force fapla, boniface
recalls the worst day of his 13-year military career.

that day he stepped on a mine fleeing from a lost battle in
northern huila province in march 1980. when he recovered
consciousness in a military hospital, ''a canadian doctor said
there was no way but to cut my leg away. on that day i was 16
years old and i felt my leg aching and i was sorry to be in the
army.

''i asked the doctor how come he cut my leg away? who was to
blame? he told me it was the war''.

initially boniface received no compensation from government
and was bitter. later however, ''they started to give me some
money and food, now i think i have everything i want''.

like boniface, mateus gracinda belongs to the 'antigos
combattent' (ac) a state run organisation set up in 1977 to help
disabled soldiers rebuild their lives.

gracinda fought all over angola during the 16-years of war.

the 28-year-old lost his leg in a three day battle in a mined
camp in northern lunda sul province.

''if i hadn't been handicapped i would have risen in the army
and now the pain is still in my heart because i wasn't born like
this'', he mused.

like thousands of other semi-literate angolans, boniface and
gracinda joined fapla as volunteers in the early years of the
civil war to ''defend'' their country against the south african
backed unita rebel movement. ''i thought my country was under
threat from enemies so i joined to free my country'', said
boniface.

by the late 1980s, with a death toll of around 350,000
and 50,000 soldiers crippled, heroism of that kind was
considered suicidal rather then brave among the youths of
lubango and probably throughout the country. (more/ips)

(story received incomplete)
n145
From: essandor@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: CAMEROON ELECTION RESULTS, ANY WORD YET?????
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:42:18 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <Oct.13.11.23.47.1992.1220@occlusal.rutgers.edu>, shemlon@occlusal.rutgers.edu (Shiyghan Shemlon) writes:
> 
> I heard Ni John Fru Di was the exit poll winner. Any Confirmation
> Yet????


I have replied to a question on the same topic earlier on. Well according to a
BBC news on the radio yesterday, 14 October, 1992, the incumbent President Paul
Biya is leading by 51% out of the 1 million votes counted so far. However, the
rival opposition party leader has alleged that there has been iregularities in
the counting and has called on the international community to set up an
arbitration to look into the issue. As I have already said elsewhere, I hope
everything will go on peacefully because we need peace in Africa now or never!!
From next month the search light will be on my country Ghana and we all hope
for the best. The borders are closing aroung Africa so if we will not sit down
and take account of our doings but will only continue with fighting, we will
have ourselves to blame in the end. We will surely be left behind!!!!!!!!!!!!

Willie Essandor
Dept. of Political Science
University of Helsinki
Finland
From: bstring@mainz-emh2.army.mil (BOB STRINGFIELD)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Namibia Trip
Date: 16 Oct 1992 14:30:58 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

One of my daughters (Yaisa Inyo Stringfield) is going on a musical
junket to Namibia and wonders if anyone could provide her with
some helpful hints as to what one might expectO.  Thanks...
--bob
 
***********************************************************************
Robert (Bob) L. Stringfield      Mainz Army Depot
UNIT 24218  P.O. Box 52:  APO AE 09185
COML (No ETS or Autovon available): 06131-696328 (Germany)
FAX: 06131-696467  IRC Nick - DeathStar (:ds)
bstring@mainz-emh2.army.mil or bstring%mainz-emh2.army.mil@vm1.nodak.edu
                   Truth:  IGNORANCE hates knowledge....
*************************************************************************
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Subject: Re: Shaka Zulu?
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 13:53:23 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:

: Tshaka was a brilliant
: man who recognized that only a strong united nation could halt the 
: European invasion of the continent. 

Whatever Shaka's military merits, this is outright nonsense, sheer
fabrication. A passing knowledge, nay a mere smattering, of SA history
would tell you that Europeans had nothing to do with it. In fact
Shaka was long gone, and the Mfecane/Difaqane over before the Europeans
came into the picture. Shaka acted for personal and for ethnic gain, 
an empire builder and a tyrant. 

A recurring pattern in African history (and history all over the world)
is the reinvention of the past for present purposes; the purpose here
is put Shaka to use in an entirely different conflict. So much for
EUROPEANS distorting African history.

Gavan Tredoux
UCT
From: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Womens's Rights in US vs Africa: Parting with Illusions.
Date: 9 Oct 92 21:35:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.BvvInI.CHA
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.

From the AP:

   Texas Grand Jury Doesn't Indict     
     Rape Suspect Who Wore Condom      
                 ---
    AUSTIN, Texas - A grand jury
refused to indict a rape suspect who
wore a condom at the woman's request.
    Prosecutors wouldn't discuss the
reasons for the grand jury's action
Sept. 30 in the case of Joel Valdez,
27. Grand jury proceedings are secret.
    But the executive director of the
Austin Rape Crisis Center said the
man's accuser was punished for trying
to protect herself.
    ''Now, that protection is being
used against her,'' Lynn Thompson Haas
said. ''Just because she asked not to
be hurt doesn't mean she's
consenting.''
    Valdez told police he had sex with
the woman after hiding in her apart-
ment.
    The woman said that she asked the
stranger, who was carrying a knife, to
wear the condom because she wanted
protection from sexually transmitted
diseases.
    The woman said she was stunned by
the grand jury's decision.
    ''I was raped by a man and now I'm
being raped by society,'' she said.
    ''There was no rape to it,'' Valdez
insisted from jail. ''She's the one who
gave me the condoms. If she didn't want
to, why would she give me the
condoms?''
    After the grand jury refused to
indict him, police immediately charged
Valdez instead with burglary with
intent to commit sexual assault.
    He remains in jail on $10,000 bail.
-- 
Internet: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Bitnet:   kautaj@iubacs.bitnet         
Uucp:     kautaj@iubacs.uucp
From: naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Shaka Zulu?
Keywords: Shaka Zulu
Date: 11 Oct 92 20:34:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: uctvax.1992Oct11.183423.203061
Organization: University of Cape Town

> 
> Not necessarily. The director of the series wnated to depict Tshaka as blood
> thirsty megalomaniac. This is not necessarily true. Tshaka was a brilliant
> man who recognized that only a strong united nation could halt the 
> European invasion of the continent. He was a shrewd man who innovated brilli
> ant millitary tactics. If the only the chinese had delayed the invention of
> gun powder by  300 hundred years more.....


This is absolute nonsense. The series does not depict Shaka as a blood thirsty
megalomaniac. Shaka was a similar person to Julius Caesar, a born military man.
He never united anybody to fight the Europeans. His unification of the clans
took place before there was contact with the Europeans. He never perceived them
as a threat. That came later under Dingaan.

-- 
*****************************************************************************
* Baby Doc Naturman                                                         *
* USS Enterprise                           "It's life Jim,                  *
* Final Frontier                                  but not as we know it."   *
* naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za                                                 *
*                                                       Spock of Vulcan     *
*****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: "Selective Quotations damage Jeffery's Credibility"
Date: 11 Oct 92 00:00:48 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

llk@kepler.unh.edu (Foreign Cretin) writes:

: One hopes that the majority of the readers are "mature" enough
: to see through Gavan's postings...

Yawn. Past your bedtime.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: f54oguocha@edison.usask.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: world cup qualifying results
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:08:58 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan


From: harin@iti.gov.sg (Harinderpal Singh)
Date: 12-OCT-1992 00:37:51
Description: World Cup Qualifying Results

Results of World Cup Qualifiers played this weekend :
=====================================================
9 Oct     Africa Group A         Algeria 3 - 1 Burundi
9 Oct     Africa Group B           Zaire 4 - 2 Liberia
9 Oct     Africa Group C           Egypt 1 - 0 Angola
9 Oct     Africa Group C        Zimbabwe 1 - 0 Togo
9 Oct     Africa Group D         Nigeria 4 - 0 South Africa
9 Oct     Africa Group E     Ivory Coast 6 - 0 Botswana
9 Oct     Africa Group F         Morocco 5 - 0 Ethiopia (abandoned 55 mins)
9 Oct     Africa Group F         Tunisia 5 - 1 Benin
9 Oct     Africa Group G           Gabon 3 - 1 Mozambique
9 Oct     Africa Group H      Madagascar 3 - 0 Namibia
9 Oct     Africa Group H          Zambia 2 - 0 Tanzania

Somehow these results have not come in. Anyone have them?
=========================================================
9 Oct     Africa Group B        Cameroon - Swaziland
9 Oct     Africa Group D           Congo - Libya
9 Oct     Africa Group I          Guinea - Mali

Harinderpal Singh Grewal                                     harin@iti.gov.sg
National Computer Board, Singapore                     harinder@itivax.bitnet

*** Reposted by Oguocha
From: kk@aisb.ed.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Fluffy zebra, quagga?
Date: 8 Oct 92 10:46:23 GMT
Reply-To: kk@aisb.ed.ac.uk ()
Organization: Dept AI, Edinburgh University, Scotland

This may be a bit tangential to the normal traffic on this group but I
can't think of anywhere else to ask the question.

Last week in the Etosha nature conservancy park in Namibia we saw a
most unusual zebra in a herd of about 100 (so the others didn't seem
to think it unusual). It was considerably fluffier than the others and
its stripes were thick and dark. The mane was probably a bit floppier
than the usual zebra mohican-style.

Someone left in our house a copy of the SAA in-flight mag which has an
article on people trying to reintroduce/reinvent the quagga, now
extinct, maintaining that it still exists `in the gene pool' and so
can re-emerge. The beast we saw looked a bit like the pictures in this
article.

I must admit that zebras have always previously looked quite uniform
to me, the individual differences requiring some careful close-up
scrutiny to discern, so this one was extraordinary.
Any thoughts or pointers to other potential sources of information?

kathleen



--
---------------------------------
Kathleen King (kk@aisb.ac.ed.uk) 	Tel:	44 31 650 2726
Dept of AI, University of Edinburgh,	Fax:	44 31 650 6516
80 South Bridge, Edinburgh EH1 1HN.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta)
Subject: Re: Shaka Zulu?
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 19:05:38 GMT

In article <Bvt93D.6yF@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta) writes:

>Shaka Zulu is apparently popular here for a number of reasons. Not the least
>of which is that we see the world thru our prejudiced eyes. I just feel pity
>for African Americans who actually believe that shit.

By "Shaka Zulu" I meant the movie, not the man. I guess I should have used 
quotation marks. The man was indeed great. Predictably, the clowns at UCT
don't thinx so....

-- 
Internet: kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Bitnet:   kautaj@iubacs.bitnet         
Uucp:     kautaj@iubacs.uucp           
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african:5307 sanet.talk.politics:85
From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,sanet.talk.politics
Subject: Re: Third force rides again
Date: 15 Oct 92 12:44:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: ucthpx.1992Oct15.124423.9744
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

mark@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
: (1)  Being arrested by the police for a crime does not establish guilt.
:      See the case of Christopher Toise who was arrested by the police
:      for the murder of ANC cadre Pro Jack.  Despite the fact that he
:      could prove he was in police custody at the time of the murder,
:      they insisted on pressing charges against him until the case was
:      thrown out by a magistrate.  Caution should apply all round - I 
:      suggest you also apply caution before convicting on the word of
:      the SA police.

Certainly, I haven't convicted anyone, that's the business of the courts.
Just pointing out reasonable doubt about all these endless knee-jerk
"hit squad" claims. they've just become a bad habit. Who killed Pro Jack?
Who knows? I do know that the HRC listed the murder as HS activity, ie
hit-squad activity, without the slightest shred of proof or reasonable
grounds.
 
: (2)  A while ago Gavan accussed ANC cadres dressed in SADF uniforms of
:      being responsible for the murder of IFP supporters in Natal.
:      He was then noticably silent when police arrested an SADF member
:      for the same murders a while back.  

There have been dozens of reports of assasinations of IFP warlords et al
by people in uniforms. Can't even remeber which one you're referring to.
At most I can report arrests and convictions, I can't establish guilt
myself, nor would I attempt to. I'm not assessing definite blame for 
violence, just undermining the claims of others to be able to do
precisely that.

Gavan Tredoux
UCT
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: llk@kepler.unh.edu (Local Genius)
Subject: Re: "Selective Quotations damage Jeffery's Credibility"
Organization: Department of Mathematics
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 00:21:03 GMT

In article <1b2cerINNgif@pacific.cs.ubc.ca> shaze@cs.ubc.ca (Scott Hazelhurst) writes:
>Long rave by Gavan not included. Well I can't comment on 
>all of what he says since I don't have the time, but IF
>what he says about Jeffery's report of the HRC report is true
>then either Gavan didn't read the report or he misled the net
                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
One hopes that the majority of the readers are "mature" enough
to see through Gavan's postings...but then this could be wishful
thinking, especially here in these United States where people(some)
still believe that Africans live in trees and that one meets
lions and other beasts on the streets on The Continent...

>by posting selective quotes so as to portray the HRC in
>as bad a light as possible. If he has given a fair representation
>of the HRC report and said that it was biased I probably would
>have accepted his point. He didn't. Motives, motives, motives.....
>
>
>Scott
>
>
--
lk(with the man in the yellow hat)
From: shaze@cs.ubc.ca (Scott Hazelhurst)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Third force rides again
Date: 13 Oct 1992 11:15:40 -0700
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: pacific.cs.ubc.ca


gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:
>Maybe Goniwe *was* rubbed out by the state, but that (reprehensible

"Maybe."? A bit weak don't you think? Most probably.

A few weeks ago I asked without response whether there was any
progress on the investigation into the cover-up during the investigation
of the Trust Feeds case. Considering who is doing the investigation,
there's not much hope for any progress but still... However, in
that case, both the Natal A-G and a supreme court judge were
extremely critical of police behaviour during the investigation.
Incidents like this, and evidence that came out during both the
Hiemstra and Harms commission provides pretty compelling evidence
of local "third forces" (don't think a useful term); people _within_
state structures who use state structures set themselves up to
root out the enemy and/or foster a particular agenda.

>though it is) establishes nothing about the "third force". After all,
>you must start to establish how *much* violence this "third force" is
>responsible for and what their motives, organization, leadership, agendas
>are. Doesn't do to claim they're responsible for *some* violence which
>*may* be somehow linked to the *state*. Are th epeopl ewho rubbed out Goniwe
>the same people who launch train attacks? How do we know this?

First state sponsored violence (anywhere in the world) is different
in its effects than other forms of violence (but this is not
the issue I want to deal with).

I agree that there isn't conclusive evidence of an organised national
third force. The evidence is circumstantial and can be interpreted
in a number of ways. What there is conclusive evidence of again
from evidence at Trust Feeds, Hiemstra and Harms is that senior
security officials (at rank of major general at least) have at
the very least turned a blind eye to what's been happening and
seem to do no more than put a PR front.

What happens at local level doesn't have to be planned in one
huge conspiracy (although there isn't convincing evidence against
such a conspiracy either). A number of high level people in the
establishment feel they benefit from what happens at the local 
level. The real question for me is what the responsibility of
the cabinet is in this. Are they just incapable of rooting
out the top level thugs or do they feel that it benefits them
politically to destabilise the country

>And note too the recent death of Mr Andre de Villiers, supposedly at the hands
>of a state death squad. Turns out the ANC were behind it - or at least ANC
>cadres. However, robbery seems to have been the motive. That should teach the 
>lesson of caution here.

And conclusive proof that it was ANC members was that the police found
the alleged killers so quickly

Scott
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Great Victory in Angola! Savimbi loses elections.
Date: 16 Oct 92 03:36:50 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Oct15.094736.203118@uctvax.uct.ac.za> watkins@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>
>Don't blaim me - I know that I never nominated nor voted for him! :-)
>Gary

Isn't amazing how these chaps from South Africa are so eager to integrate
and become "Africans" too internationally. In some parts of their country
a black man must keep to his side of the road, if not any longer physically
then still literaly.... 
Unfortunately this qualification (africaness) is not easily gained.......

Makala
From: sls2c@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: test
Date: 9 Oct 92 13:05:38 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

this is test.
From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Human Rights Commission 1
Date: 13 Oct 92 20:42:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: ucthpx.1992Oct13.204251.17747
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

shaze@cs.ubc.ca (Scott Hazelhurst) writes:

: What I still don't understand is why someone who is so clever and who
: has all the primary information originally posted quotes from
: Jeffery which gave neither a fair summary of her report or
: the HRC. I suppose it was to be scrupulously fair, but I am
: afraid I don't get the subtlety of the point.

Graciously I will repeat myself: I didn't post Jeffery quotes, I posted
info on HRC reporting of violence, using an example made famous by Jeffery.
Read it again, slowly, and look for the letters q u o t e. Alternatively
the symbols ` ". 

More will follow, drawn from lots of sources I've
gathered together in my very own Institute's research programme. Jeffery
is part of this.
 
As for the stuff about me posting in reply to you, your post wasn't
sufficiently interesting (to me anyway) to warrant a detailed response: I
simply mentioned in passing my long-held intention to post more detailed
stuff on violence, which touched on whatever you said. You were not my inspiration, but you can be if you'd like that. Let me know.

Gavan Tredoux
UCT
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african