HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Date: 11 Dec 92 19:07:01 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Dec10.210038.29499@reed.edu> todd@reed.edu (Todd Ellner) writes:
>What techniques would you use if you _really_ had to stop someone?
>If the proverbial 7'-300lb-PCP using-steroid monkey-whose spent half
>his life in Folsom prison-and wants to rip your lungs out was in the
>alley with you and you could set up one or two shots what would they
>be? No guns or knives allowed.
>
>I know that it depends on the situation, the range, and a lot of other
>things and that no one with any sense would hit just once or twice; what
>are the first couple techniques that come to mind?
>
>For me the Thai kick to the inside of the knee, elbow to the side or
>back of the neck (while holding the head in the other hand), and maybe
>head butt to the temple immediately spring to the fore.

Let's see; I've sparred a bit with a couple of guys in this size
range recently; one was a charger, the other more of a wait-and-see
type. Against the charger what seemed to work was a last-minute
oblique evasion followed by a knee hard in the ribs as he went
by to stop him and set up a kick to the knee to take him off his
feet.

Against the wait-and-see guy it seemed better to draw a hand strike
that I could evade into a monkey-style climb up his body to where
I could abuse his head with my elbow and his ribs with my knee.

Incidentally, another thing that worked well against the charger
was to catch his charge with a Tai Chi-style palm strike, let him
compress me into position for a push and uproot him into a wall.
That wouldn't have been my first choice, though. In fact, frankly,
it wouldn't have occurred to me that I could make it work
against somebody his size; it just sort of happened.
From: yehd@ACF6.NYU.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fist Conditioning
Date: 13 Dec 1992 06:19:56 GMT
Organization: New York University, NY, NY
Reply-To: yehd@ACF6.NYU.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: acf6.nyu.edu

I'm not sure what "Iron Palm" training is per se, but based on
what I'm reading about in this thread, resembles something
my teacher taught us about Tai Chi.  Take it for what it's
worth.

=====
"Why punch bag?" Because arm has 'memory.'  Like when you
pick up heavy bag, you don't "lock up" your muscles (i.e.
contract all your muscles) before you pick it up.  Likewise,
you're not so relaxed that there is no force to move bag when
you pick it up.  But when you pick it up, your body automatically
knows and 'remembers' how much muscle force to use to pick
it up.  Your arms tense up just enough to pick up.

Just like when punch, your arm and wrist has to get used to
how much force is enough, so when you punch, you automatically
tense up just enough.
=====

I know, I know, late reply, I'm just waaaay behind.

-DavID

--
David Yeh can be found at YEHD@ACFCluster.nyu.edu
	"I know, I know, boring .sig, I'm working on it..."
From: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Judo Esoterica
Date: 17 Dec 1992 18:21:12 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: danzan.ebay.sun.com

In article 5720@ms.uky.edu, taddiken@ms.uky.edu (scott taddiken) writes:
>Kano felt that the three training methods of judo, in order of importance,
>were 1) randori (free practice)  2) kata (2 man, set forms)
>3) uchi-komi (repeated entering for the same throw).  There may well
>be something to this kata stuff, but it's boring.  I suggest (gasp!)
>removing all of the formality from it while practicing in the dojo.
>Move around slowly and loosely, as if in some somnolent randori.  Throwee
>picks three times to push strongly (or whatever he's supposed to do).
>Thrower throws on the third.  In the throws where throwee is supposed to
>do that silly overhead strike, instead have him take one grip and make
>a huge grab at an over-the-back grip with the other hand.

Kata is for the development of "Stillness in Movement". Kodokan Kata is
not the only thing to practice. All Nage-te can be Nage-No-Kata. 1-2-3
throw. Continued practice of Kata helps bring about clarity of mind in
Randori.

Randori - good to see someone not stuck on practicing Shiai without a Ref.
I like to to just trade-off throws. Uke's job is to keep his/her center.
Tori's job is to break the center. Uke (practicing Jita Kyoei) does not
try to counter throw, but after a time assists Tori is finding how to break
Uke's center. 

Uke Otoshi - a Kata form is the following: Uke steps forward with right foot.
Tori steps back with left. Uke brings right foot forward even with left. Tori 
steps back with right, even to his left. Repeat Uke steps forward with right, 
Tori swings left around and drops to knee and extends his leg (or keeps his
foot flat with the leg at a right angle.

Note: most Nage can be done in a 3-step form or Kata.

A -Te method (technique).

Step to Uke's right side with your right foot. Pull Uke to his right. Uke's
balance may be on the outside of his right heel. Quickly pivot around and 
drop to your left knee. Pivot must be 180^. Uke's shoulder should be beyond
the edge of his foot. Makes a decent throw.

This method of entering can be used on lots of Nage-te. Great for Tai-Otoshi,
Seoi_Nage and the like. A skip can be used to bring the left foot forward
and kicking the right leg up for O Soto Gari.

For Seoi Nage, I like to use the right hand and forearm to force Uke to his
back right heel as I step forward. I pivot my left foot around but not too close
to my right so Uke is thrown nicely over my loins. Of course, you may bend your
knees greatly and do an over-the-shoulder throw as well.

---
Dave Scheid - All Disclaimers Apply
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: stranglehold
Date: 19 Dec 92 03:33:12 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Dec18.150142.6264@desire.wright.edu> jchristian@desire.wright.edu writes:
> [ description deleted ]

	Sorry, I just can't quite picture why dropping your chin and pulling
his arms wouldn't destroy the technique...  I guess I just don't get it.

	(By the way, this is *not* the attack we were discussing: we were 
talking about the one were you squeeze the neck with your hands.  I can
make bare hand chokes work from this grip, too, by attacking the arteries
with the sides of my hands or the knuckles)

>As often as I've this particular choke done to me, the only thing I've found
>that is halfway reliable is turning your head and dropping your chin.  But if

	I think that's your mistake.  Try forcing your chin *straight* *down*
into your chest and breaking his grip by pulling your elbows in to your sides,
reaching up and dropping your elbows down.  The idea is to use your
lats and trapezius against his arm muscles.  (That's why you need to keep
your elbows in tight and drop them straight down)  You only need to create a 
fraction of an inch of room.
								W.rat


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: riepjr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Josette R. Riep)
Subject: obeying without question
Followup-To: OBEYING WITHOUT QUESTION
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 05:47:50 GMT


		In article number [ 19873 ] I asked a question about 
	Instructors having absolute control.  It was a follow up to an 
        article I had read earlier. Although this is only my second time 
	writing on the network. I have been an avid reader for the past 4 
	or 5 months. I did not recieve any response to the posting...Now I 
	do not know if it was because the question asked was redundant or 
	obvious to others but I would appreciate some feedback so that I will 
	know.
			
		-Thanks !!!!!
__________________________________________________________________________
	Josette R. Riep
	Cincinnati Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do
From: jo.lavoy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jo Lavoy) 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: RE: MODEL MUGGING AGAIN.
Date: 6 Dec 92 17:38:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Web BBS 1-513-436-9011 6 Lines 1200 News groups 50,000 files!
Reply-To: jo.lavoy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jo Lavoy) 

I haven't studied the Model Mugging (is this the same as Model Rape?)
but certainly wouldn't say that it is the be-all and end-all of martial
self-defense training. Yes, it IS different than a martial sport
competition, but it's also true that with the "attacker" all padded up
like that, things like flesh-grabs and even most grappling is out the
window, as far as practice goes.
    I think there is a balance to be struck between martial training
that has the practitioners rarely acting "streetlike" in their sparring,
and the training that has you SUPPOSEDLY doing everything but really
doesn't allow for face-rakes, nerve gouges, flesh-pinches (if you've
ever been thrown by someone with "baby pinches" of your underarm skin,
you haven't lived (groan)).
    It's true that the Model Rape/Mugging programs allows women who may
be inhibited or afraid to really hit someone hard to get rid of those
hangups and just lay into someone without worrying too much about
seriously injuring them.  From what I've seen of women who talk about
taking self-defense classes, this is what they need BEFORE they consider
other training.
From: kevin@pages.com (Kevin Sven Berg)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: ki and science
Date: 16 Dec 92 06:10:15 GMT
Organization: Banzai Research Institute

In article <qsS=-7A@engin.umich.edu> ftit@woundedknee.engin.umich.edu (Sergej  
Roytman) writes:
> 
> 
> Perhaps what is needed for a scientific study of chi is a preliminary
> experiment -- something to give the concept credibility.  Young's
> double-slit experiment was very easy to reproduce in my highschool
> physics class, and we even got ballpark-range figures.  Why isn't it
> possible to build some primitive equipment to detect the presence of
> chi?  Let's assume that chi is a natural phenomenon.  Let's also assume
> that this phenomenon interacts in some way with other phenomena.  It
> should then be possible to detect and maybe even measure it.  If someone
> can detect some anomolous radiations from sources of chi my guess is
> that Science will become very curious.
> 

There HAVE been experiments dealing with unusual natural phenomena
(my familiarity is with altered states), and results are still often
not accepted by the publishing scientific body, so remain outside the
realm of accepted science (e.g. rigorous work on lucid dreaming by
PhD Stephen LaBerge at Stanford).

Within it's own definition, science is just a model of understanding.
That means that science itself is a mythos. Look closely and you'll
see that it is governed by the changing politics and social norms
(ref. Thomas Khun, Structure of Scientific Revolution). The irony is
that science is not advanced by the use of scientific method, but by
a combination of accident, opinion, and choice. (Yes, we could probably 
debate the meaning of choice and accidents. I, as always, have my 
own opinion ;-)

There ARE devices that measure subtle energies from the body. One very
well-known device is Kirlian photography (high energy electrical emission 
in conjuction with bodies and a photographic plate). Other devices seem to 
pop up in  New-Age publications. I recall a story regarding a student 
bringing one of these devices to my T'ai Chi instructor: some of the 
advanced students could make the gauge move slightly, but Master Pang 
nearly broke the device! After that he thought the whole thing silly and
wouldn't have anything to do with it.

So, my rhetorical question in response: Why doesn't science explore
these existing devices?

People have to be willing to let go of ideas in order to accept
new ones, especially if new findings challenge older beliefs.
I think Chi is a prime example of something that stands to challenge
closely held beliefs.

Kevin
-- 
Kevin Sven Berg               /    /    /    /  P /  a /  g /  e /  s
kevin@pages.com              /    /    /    /    /    /    /    / 
Pages Software Inc.         /    /    /    /    /    /    /    /   
San Diego, CA.               `    `    `    `    `    `    `    `
From: rtravsky@news.uwyo.edu (Rich Travsky)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Seagal Hits The Big Time
Date: 17 Dec 92 16:23:41 MST
Distribution: world
Organization: Banzai Institute

Well, looks like Steven Seagal has finally hit the big time.
What's that you say? He did some time ago? Tut tut... You 
haven't hit the big time until you've been on the cover of
the tabloids.

Today, at lunch, whilst at the local Safeway, I saw, on the
cover of the "Globe", the following headline: Steven Seagal
Bigamy Secret!  It claims he has a wife in Japan, in addition
to one here in the states. Regrettably I did not have time
to peruse this shining example of yellow-belt journalism.

Richard Travsky
Division of Information Technology     RTRAVSKY @ CORRAL.UWYO.EDU
University of Wyoming                  (307) 766 - 3663 / 3668
"Don't try to understand them, just rope, throw, and brand 'em"
From: geg@beep.mis.semi.harris.com (Gregory E. Garland)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: How long is a string?  Was Re: belt colors in this newsgroup
Date: 13 Dec 92 18:26:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: mlb.1992Dec13.182604.4650
Organization: Manufacturing Systems, Harris Semicondutor

In article <MARY.92Dec13111650@martinique.Cayman.COM>, mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes:
|> 
|> In article <1992Dec12.105521@ee.egr.duke.edu> wrankin@ee.egr.duke.edu (William T. Rankin) writes:
|> 
|> [snip]
|> 
|>    BTW, Mary, *how* long *are* your legs?... :-)
|>    (duck!  no, run!, no, duck then run! no... (crunch!<thud>)
|> 
|> 32" inseam.  In other words...heh heh heh...long enough.
|> 

Any longer and you'd be sticking through the floor when you stand up, right?
:-)

-- 
Greg Garland - Alive, occupying space, and exerting gravitational force

MS 62-024, Harris Semiconductor Sector, PO Bx 883, 
Melbourne  FL 32905.  geg@beep.mis.semi.harris.com

"Never let the facts interfere with your perception of reality."
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: martial arts info
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:15:17 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Dec10.163217.2910@walter.cray.com> radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner) writes:
>Not to mention your statement that that Judo is the only martial art that 
>'healthy young women' should take.

        Like I said, judo offers many unique advantages to a strong
young woman.  Are you trying to say that because I took the questioner's 
gender into account I did something wrong?
From: ph2sct@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Dzu Nguyen)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Date: 11 Dec 92 23:19:18 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

I think what I would do is put a nikyo (aikido, the 'tupperware'
technique). Drop him with my center thereby ripping out his
shoulder. Then I would keep the pin because even if he is 7' 300
lbs. and using PCP, he won't be able to get out of the pin without
ripping his arm off.  As for the second thing i would do,
well...that's all folks.

Dave (using Dzu's account)
From: jfrost@crash.cts.com (Julian Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: hapkido
Date: 20 Dec 92 19:55:01 GMT
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA

In article <19902@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> acgetche@taco.engr.ucdavis.edu (Adam) writes:
>
>	Someone wanted some information on Hapkido, so I decided to plug in
>my $.02 (plink, plink) on my favorite martial art.
>	Hapkido originated from Daito Ryu Jujitsu, the same antecedent to
>Aikido.

The inventor of Hapkido was supposed to have trained under headmaster
of Daito Ryu Ju Jutsu, Sokaku Takeda, although there are NO records in
the Takeda family of him ever having trained in Ju Jutsu.  Similarly,
he was supposed to have trained under Morihei Ueshiba, the founder of
Aikido, but there are also no records in the Ueshiba family of him
ever having trained in Aikido!  There were stories that he changed his
name and studied under Ueshiba, but there are no records of the anyone
studying under Ueshiba with the assumed name either! There is,
however, no denying that some of the techniques in Hapkido do LOOK
very much like some of those in Daito Ryu Ju Jutsu and Aikido,
although, having trained with some Hapkido people (and seen the
instructors at Davis when they came down to UCSD) the techniques do
not appear to have been refined to such an extent, or seem to be as
effective as those as those in either Ju Jutsu or Aikido.

>	As a comment on its practical mindset, the three main Hapkido weapons
>are the belt (as in the one around your dobuk), the kubatan, and the cane.
>	There is little Hapkido sparring, per se (most Hapkido kicks are
>difficult to impossible to pull, and most of the sweeps/takedowns/throws
>end up breaking something if applied in full).  At our last black belt 
>test, sparring was done first TKD style (no low kicks, control, etc).  Then
>the second round of sparring was Judo style without the matwork.  The last
>round of sparring was done as groundwork, starting with both participants
>sitting up against the others' back.
>	Most falls are judo style (air, side, back, face) but there are a
>few uniquely designed for other purposes, e.g. knee-under fall against
>someone who grabs your hair -- lock wrist against scalp, apply wristlock,
>and execute knee-under fall to break wrist.

Most Hapkido Kicks are difficult to impossible to pull?  How do you
train then?  I notice Hapkido people don't wear body armor!  If the
martial art teaches throws (like Ju Jutsu and Aikido), then surely it
should teach *Correct* falling (Ukemi, in Japanese)?  Ukemi is more
than just falling, it is fully accepting an attack and flowing with it
so as not to get injured.  How can you practise throwing if you can't
apply them "in full"?

Enough of this nonsense!!  Happy training!
From: rterry@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Ray Terry)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:36:57 GMT
Subject: Re: I need some opinions...
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

>Just out of curiousity.. which martial arts school/form/etc. best imitates the
>actions of a tiger in attack/defense?

Harimau (Tiger) Silat???
From: worthm@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Mike Worth)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: 7' Tall PCP Psycho...
Date: 12 Dec 92 17:27:40 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Firstly, I would just like to say that all the articles posted about this
subject have been excellent and instructional. All the combinations posted 
would do some very real damage to the PCP man, and, God willing, take him out.
Personally, I would probably use the time honored move of front or side kick to
the knee, but I might then wait for him to throw a punch, maneuver it into the
arm bar position, and break the arm at the elbow with a heel palm strike. That 
would mean that one side of his body would be undefended, leaving me with that
side of his necd/head wide open for ridge hand to the temple, neck chop to 
the arteries, etc. The floating ribs should also be open for a roundhouse kick.
Just another variation that popped into my head...
	Mike
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: weigand@vanilla.cns.udel.edu (Steve Weigand)
Subject: Re: TOGAKURE RYU NINJUTSU
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:40:19 GMT

TOGA TOGA TOGA!!!!

 Sorry... Had to be said.

- Steve Weigand

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mearman@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Joseph Mearman)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Knife Throwing
Date: 17 Dec 92 13:12:36 GMT
Reply-To: mearman@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Joseph Mearman)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

Someone asked for any books on knife throwing.
 The one I have is: Knife Throwing A practical guide
By Harry K. Mcevoy
Published  ByCharles E. Tuttle Company, Inc.
of Rutland, Vermont & Tokyo, Japan
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: group for judo?
Date: 17 Dec 92 15:10:23 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <ZARR.92Dec17004711@lk-hp-14.hut.fi> zarr@lk-hp-14.hut.fi (Mari (Black Panther) Sepp{) writes:
>so much other stuff to do that I only choose the articles that have judo in
>their subject-line to read.  I don't usually have the time (like right 

	Your loss, I think.  I get an awful lot out of reading discussions
about other arts, and adding my own perspective.  And vice-versa.

	I disagree with seperate groups for judo or any other art because
I don't think there's sufficient volume in any one branch and because
the sharing of ideas is too valuable to lose.
									wr
From: rterry@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Ray Terry)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:36:20 GMT
Subject: Re: answers needed...Re: quick question
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

>  This is from SCIENCE, News and Comments Section, 9 october 92. Violence
>  Epidemiologists test the Hazards of Gun Ownership. This article is a
>  survey of various Center for Desease Control studies on guns and violence.
>  First on the lethality of guns: "Firarm attacks on family members and 
>  intimate aqauintances are at least 12 times more likely to result in death 
>  than are assaults with other weapons." In another study on women and guns
>  it was shown that when women killed with a firearm it was '"five times
>  more likely to be theri spouse, an intimate aquaintance, or a member of their
>  family than to be a stranger or a person of undertermined relationship."'
>  I a study looking at suicide and guns, there is a "five-fold increase
>  in the risk of suicide for those living in homes where guns are kept."
>
>   I know that the gun-fu issue has been hashed and rehased out here. But
>   your quotation of facts and figures seems to have sources backing it up.
>   The research quoted above came out in issues of the Journal of the American
>   Medical Association, the Journal of Trauma, and the New England Journal of 
>   Medicine.

The above doesn't really say much regarding the 'gun-fu' (or 'ching-ching-pow')
issue, so I'm not sure what point you're really trying to make.   One study
from the CDC (Centers for Disease Control) does refute the above suicide 
claim, however.  Their study indicated that access to a firearm does NOT 
increase the occurrence of successful suicides in the general population (all 
ages).  But, in all fairness, they did find an increase for teenagers.

For whatever it is worth, as of late the anti-gun bunch have been trying to
enlist the help of friendlies in the medical community.  If you look at their
research (which I have  -- I have a Masters in Statistics) you'll find it
somewhat flawed.  Let the M.D.s research medical issues and let the 
criminologists and sociologists research the crime and violence issues.

>>	Also, I believe civillians shoot better than 10 times as many criminals
>>	(justifiably) every year as do the total body of police in the United 
>>	States....
>>
>    Still I would like to know where you get your statistics. Stating numbers
>    is fine and dandy, but it they don't mean anything, then why bother.

I didn't post the above, but it is gleaned from Kleck's 1986 study into the 
social deterence of the private firearm ownership in the US, recommended 
reading for all those interested in the 'gun issue' (pro or con).

Ray
From: toman@bovine.uoregon.edu (J. Toman)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Describing techniques in words - Yuk!
Date: 18 Dec 1992 23:26:32 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: bovine.uoregon.edu

In article <1992Dec17.193158.601@walter.cray.com> radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner) writes:
>
>Your use of 'cross-handed' and 'same-handed' in your "simple"
>example confused me... but then, not only am I light-headed
>from a head-cold at the moment, there are a few on the net
>who I'm sure would argue I'm just dim.

No,no,no, we're willing to accept jet lag as an excuse.

>
>My .00000364129 cents .....
>
>-Lauren
> 

						J. Toman