HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: maire@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: Oprah 11/19
Date: 21 Nov 92 05:14:05 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <1992Nov20.125741.28769@wixer.cactus.org>, lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax) writes:
> In article <1992Nov19.191528.2610@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> maire@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>>I caught the second half of today's Oprah, which was about LBG people
>>and their relationships with their parents.  It was pretty good.  I
>>post this, however, to note that it turns out that Oprah's
>>transcripts are no longer done by Colorado company Journal Graphics
>>but by another company which is in New Jersey.  I believe that this
>>has been the case for quite some time, not as a result of CO2.
>>-Tina M. Wood
>> maire@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
>> maire@drycas.bitnet
>>
> 
> But "Donahue" probably still DOES get its transcripts from JG.
> Given his support of glb issues, I would suggest a writing campaign
> to remind him of this and insisting he switch to another transcript
> company.  Now, legal eagles out there, what if he has a contract
> with them?  Don't know Donahue's address, but his fax number is
> (212) 757-5386.
>  
Found Donahue's address:

Donahue
30 Rockefeller Plaza
Suite 827
New York, NY 10112

Cheers,
Tina W.
From: richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sucking on Keanu Reeves
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:42:28 GMT
Organization: Xiola Blue

Steve Dyer writes:

>>You could always ask Matthew about that surly waiter we had.  He was neither
>>cute nor personable.  

>Perhaps it had something to do with the dinner companion you had that evening.
>Surly is as surly does.

Surly you jest!  Like all of us, Steve, he's a pussycat in person.  If
anything, it is I who shoulders the blame for inflaming the waiter.  I
attempted to joke with him and he, thinking that the institution that 
employs him is beyond such repartee, became snotty and sneering.  No
worse than the argula in my salad that night: a tad bitter on the tongue,
but quickly fades away.  
-- 
a flying squirrel is: richard@apple.com  Apple Computer Inc.

i'm your girl            friend
i'm your squirrel        friend
i'm your round the world friend

"In America, we can't even get corruption right."  - my CFII.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Subject: Re: Visiting Memphis, TN
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:26:41 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.054714.5391@psych.toronto.edu> 
 jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis) writes:
>Next Thursday, I'll be flying to Memphis for CLOG, the national clogging
>convention.

To be followed immediately, one wagers, by the national plumbing
convention.  

[Ellen ducks flying clogs...]  I passed your request for tips on to
Cliff, a Memphian.

>P.S.  A miracle did come through for me.  John appears to be recovering,
>albeit slowly.  He'll probably be off the respirator today or tomorrow.

This is good to hear!

--                    __
Ellen Keyne Seebacher \/             elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Inconsistency re CO boycott
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 23:20:19 GMT


In article <1992Nov18.154924.22720@netcom.com>
stephena@netcom.com (Stephen Arrants) writes:

>>What did happen that you broke your ankle, btw?  

>I fell down the stairs at home.  The fot bent in a weird
>way under me, my head hit the front door.  I'm on the floor
>moaning and screaming, Glen comes swooping down fromt he
>second floor and trips over me.  End of accident.  Actually,
>I wish it had been more dramatic.  WIth music building up,
>the fall, and cut to commercial.

Apart from the pain (and doubtless lots of inconvenience),
it sounds like tv pratfalls; you guys forgot to let the
stunt guys do that part, eh?  Speedy mending.

<> God, you really are a whiner.  If I mispelled something,
<> would you also jump on that?
<> -- Bob Sarver (bobsarv@microsoft.com)
<> Maybe he does have a sense of humor after all!
<> -- Jack Hamilton (jfh@netcom.com)
-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: "Smear the queer" (was Re: Homosexuals raising children)
Date: 20 Nov 92 01:50:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov20.015025.1732
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

A couple of years ago I was rather active on our Ultimate frisbee
team. (It's a great game, every bit as serious as soccer only more
fun). This is here at Reed, bastion of non-conformism and PC. We have
a small team and we are all friends. I was out to them then.

We were waiting for a game to start, and we had this frisbee, and my
friend Nicholas says "hey, let's play smear the queer!". He's not
homophobic - I suspect he was just using the name of a game we all
played as kids.

Melmon pontificates:
>Equating ["smear the queeer"] to 'gay-bashing' is silly.

Hearing my friend Nicholas suggest this made my blood run cold. I
don't like any reminder that we are hunted daily because we're queer -
hearing a friend suggest this, even jokingly, upset me.

So I did the right thing, looked him in the eye and said "you don't
really mean that, do you Nicholas", and he was embarassed.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/  Homosexuals were invented for an episode of Barney Miller
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
From: gsmith@lauren.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Gene W. Smith)
Subject: Re: A Strand of Bigotry
Organization: IWR, University of Heidelberg, Germany
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 17:51:12 GMT

In article <mattm-171192134108@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com
(Matthew Melmon) writes:

>You are in error.  Liberalism follows a totalitarian paradigm, but it
>is not fascism.  Both are instances of the same class, which has no
>particular name.  They invovle the glorification of _Law_, and the
>compulsion of individual choice to 'acceptable' behavior, as dictated by
>_Law_.  

This sounds like a pretty good description of the conservative point of
view to me.

-- 
     Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/IWR/Ruprecht-Karls University 
               gsmith@kalliope.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: New Catholic Catechism
Date: 18 Nov 92 04:08:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov18.040808.29552
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Nov17.180448.27247@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu> pmele@ldgo.columbia.edu (phil mele) writes:
>i find it surprising that the church has accepted that homosexuality is
>not a choice

Actually, this was never a particularly controversial point in
Roman Catholic moral theology, not that it's particularly indicative
of any largesse on their part.  It is useful to realize that 1000
years of Thomist philosophy yields a grindstone somewhat more
sophisticated than your typical Bible Belt Fundamentalist shouting
about "choice".

>and that there are a considerable number of us.

Well, Mary, all they had to do is look around! :-)

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: omt1@quads.uchicago.edu (Owen M. Thomas)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Not Enough Sucking on Keanu
Summary: Keanu, so-so. Slater, yum.
Date: 16 Nov 92 02:22:54 GMT
Reply-To: omt1@midway.uchicago.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Nov16.020627.26465@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu 
(Nelson Minar) writes:
>No kidding! I think a lot of people forgive his poor acting because he
>has a pretty face, but frankly I don't care much for the way he looks,
>either. I think he's rather boring looking. He's not an offensively
>bad actor, but he ain't much.
>
>Now Winona Ryder on the other hand.. I haven't seen Dracula yet (went
>to see it Friday, but it was sold out), but she's been great in the
>other things I've seen.
>
>ObMotss - it was rumoured that Christian Slater had a thing for Winona
>Ryder. I don't know about that, but I think he's attractive.
>

Hear hear! He can pump up _my_ volume any day.

Owen Thomas
omt1@midway.uchicago.edu

>                __
>nelson@reed.edu \/                    The sully-van vultures are on the prowl
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: The het woman in gay male fiction
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 21:08:51 GMT

In article <1ehbarINN5lj@gap.caltech.edu> pieter@cs.caltech.edu (Pieter Hazewindus) writes:
>It is a great comfort to know that there is always someone you can call
>up and talk to, without sex or power or whatever getting in the way.

I agree.  They all turn out to be men in this case, however. :-)

> In fact, it was a surprise to me to find out that there are gay men --
> no, men in general -- who do not have a close woman friend.

Well, allowing for the fact that we're using this phrase as meaning
_close_ confidante/sidekick/best friend in a manner similar to Steven's
literary examples (which were dead-on, BTW), I guess I'd count myself as
one of those who don't.  I have lots of woman friends, but none I'm
especially emotionally intimate with, and if I indulged in a bit of
self-examination, I'd probably allow that I'd find it easier to be
emotionally close to another man, even in that platonic model of
"sister" or (shudder) "fag hag".  I guess I'm just not heterophilic
enough.  The phenomenon does fascinate me, however.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: dwells@lonestar.utsa.edu (Darren . Wells)
Subject: Re: Oprah 11/19
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 19:12:14 GMT

In article <1ei2lhINN4dh@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> ttk@ucscb.UCSC.EDU
(the troglodyte killer) writes:
>
>>1) I believe that whether a person is gay or straight depends on genetics.
>>Therefore, when a person is born, it has already been determined...being
>>gay is not "learned behavior that one can change" as the religious fanatics
>>would have us believe.  Is this belief correct?
>
>     I strongly believe that this is not so.  My parents are both
>heterosexual-to-the-hilt and homophobic to boot.  I was pretty
>much the same 'till I was 17 or so and started making some
>decisions about my sexuality.  If there's some sort of genetic
>disposition towards queer sexuality, I'd think it would show up
>before then or at least show up in my parents (or their parents).
>     I'm making some assumptions here, though, and I have no
>references to draw upon but my own experiences, so I may be
>(gasp!) wrong.

Interesting that you describe both of your parents as homphobic.
From what my Abnormal Psychology prof said about the topic, when
a person entertains the thought of having sex with a MOTSS, and it
appeals to hir, but then hir moral beliefs come stomping in and
spit out a very powerful "NO!", that person is very likely to be
homophobic later, because when sie sees MOTSS relationships, a part
of hir brain is reminded that 1) I am attracted to MOTSS, and 2)
according to my moral convictions/religious beliefs/etc that is WRONG
and I will burn in hell for it, so I am uncomfortable looking at it.
So uncomfortable that I will squash it wherever I see it.

I'm not saying that your parents are LBG, but it would provide an
interesting twist.  And from what info I have (admittedly very little)
about them, it does sound plausible.

*evil chuckle*

>     Yeah, that and the CO-2 has really turned me off to the
>place..  :-(  A pity, 'cuz me and Anne were thinking of moving
>there.

I was too, because it is such a beautiful part of the country.  *pout*

Just some random ramblings, on my day off, when I can afford to sit
in front of a computer and spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars

Darren


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: stephena@netcom.com (Stephen Arrants)
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na,uk
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:05:53 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.172253.29546@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>
>	Someday, SOMEDAY we might grow up enough to choose
>our idols with our heads instead of our balls.  That will
>make the choice doubly-sweet if said choice is also *HOT* by our
>own "standards of objectifyable excellence".
>

Oh c'mon, Bob.  There's a difference between an idol and an object of lust. 
Objects of lust are allowed a little more leeway. If Mr. Marky Mark was 
exactly the same person yet had lots of body hair, a beard, and fit the "bear"
image, I'm sure you're comment would be much more muted.  Methinks thou doth
protest too much.
From: markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me about this TV show?
Date: 17 Nov 92 07:43:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.46014
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

In article <1992Nov17.053243.25307@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>
>And the sad truth is, he's right folks. I'm not old enough to have a
>beard. I'm old enough to shave, but I lack the testosterone necessary
>for a full beard. Some day, maybe. For now I either have to scrape my
>face regularly or look scruffy.
>
>Whimper.

O Nelson!  Ye of little faith.

It took years of cut and grow, cut and grow before I got my beard trained
to grow on demand.  The sad part is that I am such a little furnace
that I can't stand to wear it year round (not even in Butte, Montana
where "hot" is 85 degrees).

Your will grow and then you can do what you wish.  In the meantime,
you will have to break hearts just the way you are.

If you are nice (as you usually are here, and always in person), then
George may send you helpful hints.  Bears are nothing if not friendly
to the ursine-friendly.

Homework assignment: go to the archive and get the GIF of Nelson in
the mirror and imagine him with a neatly trimmed beard (sort of like
some east coast person wears :-).  Dashing!  Simply wonderful.  And
I'm not just saying that because it's true, either.

--mark
---
Mark Morrissey     markm@cse.ogi.edu     Hate is NOT a Family Value.
"You picked a bad day.  Pat Buchanan's here, and he's passing out a
petition to get the name of the species changed to hetero-sapien..."
 - Phil, the bar owner on "Murphy Brown"
Xref: sparky soc.motss:47728 alt.politics.homosexuality:7251
From: tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Gender Parity
Date: 15 Nov 1992 22:33:34 -0500
Organization: P.L.T.S., North Plainfield, NJ, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: plts.uucp

In article <1992Nov11.085720.18455@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>I'm sitting this one out, having processed this topic to death in
>GCN board and membership meetings until my mind turned into mincemeat.
>Someone wake me when it's over...

I could say that about almost every topic that's been brought up on
soc.motss in the last couple of months.

I'd suggest that we create a "announcements only" version of soc.motss,
but that's been processed to death on this newsgroup until my mind
turned into mincemeat too.

Someone wake me when it's over...

Tom
-- 
Tom Limoncelli -- tal@plts.uucp (home) -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work)
"Higgy higgy forward, higgy forward, higgy forward, higgy shake.  Yeeaaah!"
Xref: sparky soc.motss:49003 talk.politics.misc:61495 ca.politics:9845
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
Subject: Re: A Strand of Bigotry
Date: 23 Nov 92 22:15:10 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Nov20.170316.17817@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, gsh7w@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Hennessy) writes:
> In article <13302@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> #You mean like there is disagreement about whether two adults
> #having sex in their bedroom is a "private" action?  
> 
> Who claims it isn't private? The conservatives banning it admit it is
> private, but wish to ban it anyway.

They do?  The argument usually advanced by conservatives to justify
those sort of laws is that the existence of this behavior, in addition
to be a threat to public health (conventional STDs, AIDS), has a
"corrosive" effect on public decency.  I find this argument laughable,
but they make the same claim that YOU do -- that "no man is an
island" and everything we do in private eventually has some impact
(even remotely) on the society as a whole.

> #No absolute rights?  Does that mean that if the government decides
> #that homosexual sex is a threat to public safety, it can ban it?
> 
> That is not what I mean. My right to swing my fists end at your nose. 

Complete agreement.  But you choose to define private discrimination
as a fist hitting someone's nose, in much the same way that conservatives
define AIDS and other STDs as a societal cost that we are all stuck
with, therefore there is a legitimate basis for government regulating
private sexual behavior.  It's clear that someone punching you in
the nose is a violation of someone's rights.  Your arguments for
prohibiting private discrimination are just as specious (or just as
reasonable) as the arguments that conservatives use to justify
prohibiting adultery, cohabitation, promiscuity, sodomy, etc.

> -Greg Hennessy, University of Virginia
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
We could say that Congress spends money like drunken sailors.  But that would
be unfair -- to the sailors.  They, at least, are spending their own money.
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Can anyone tell me about this TV show?
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 00:30:49 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <46001@ogicse.ogi.edu> <1992Nov17.053243.25307@reed.edu>

Nelson Minar laments:
>And the sad truth is, he's right folks. I'm not old enough to have a
>beard. I'm old enough to shave, but I lack the testosterone necessary
>for a full beard. Some day, maybe. For now I either have to scrape my
>face regularly or look scruffy.
>
>Whimper.

You have my sincerest sympathy, Nelson.  The main reason I first
grew my beard (latter part of my Jr. year in High School) was that
since it's rather wavy/curly, I was getting HORRIBLE ingrown
hairs all over my throat from shaving....  Scraping my face with
sharpened metal fragments was bad enough, but the ingrown hairs
was just *TOO* *MUCH*.  Fortunately, I was able to get my
dermatologist to put his recommendation that I grow a beard in
writing.  ;-)

It didn't look fantastic at first (like yours, rather thin on
the cheeks), but by the time I graduated it was quite acceptable.

BTW -- has anyone else heard the news-bit about the link between
leukemia and electric shavers?  

 
() To *you* I am an atheist; to God, I'm the Loyal
() Opposition.
()      -- Woody Allen
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: dise@decoy.uoregon.edu (David Casti)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Babs calls fro Colorado Boycott
Date: 22 Nov 92 19:36:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntp.1992Nov22.193654.28342
Reply-To: dise@oregon.uoregon.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services

When I first read this article, I thought it referred to our governor here in  
Oregon, Barbara Roberts, who we often refer to as "Babs".

At any rate, at the Victory Fund celebration here in Portland last night, she  
did call for exactly that: a boycott of Colorado.  She also encouraged us to  
write letters to Roy Romer and express our concerns for his state and thank  
him for his open stand on this important issue.
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Effeminacy/Butchitude (was Re: discrimination at CMU)
Date: 18 Nov 1992 13:03:43 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <CORWIN+.92Nov18123739@MORPHEUS.CIMDS.RI.CMU.EDU> 
corwin+@CMU.EDU (Scott Safier) writes:

> Steve and others seem to
> be arguing that there are a core group of mannerisms, such as lisping,
> swishing when you walk, etc which make you "effeminate" or "act gay."

Honey, there ain't no way I'd be mistaken for straight.
It's the tragedy of my life.  I've never had to come out
to anyone (since I was 15, that is, and even then it wasn't
news to anyone).  People take one look at me, or listen to
my voice for a second or two, and they *KNOW* I'm gay.  Why
might that be, do you think?

> It seems that they are arguing that gay actors must overcome being gay
> in order to be real actors.

Sigh.

> First, I don't beleive that there are a core group of behaviors which
> all gay men have.

And just who is claiming that all gay men are "gay acting"?

> The Theater Week article mentions a number of times
> examples when men were told they were acting too effeminate on stage.
> Our college paper asked someone in Drama if an actor had ever been
> told they are acting too butch.  This person mentioned a production of
> Torch Song Trilogy where the actor playing Arnold was told he was
> being too butch.  I believe this example to be homophobic.

What are you talking about?

> It perpetuates the stereotype that gay men are effeminate. 

Do you even know the play?  Are you aware that Arnold is an
effeminate, swishy *drag* *queen*?  That's the character.
Playing him too butch is WRONG, and pointing that out is
not homophobic.

> I believe
> that just as African American's object to portrayal's such as Aunt
> Jamima and Buckwheat, gays and lesbians should object to negative
> stereotypes about our community.

Effeminate, swishy drag queens exist.  And if you don't believe me, 
just drop by my neighborhood any night of the week and you'll see 
several dozen of them hanging around in front of our friendly 
neighborhood drag bar.  Is there something wrong with drag queens?
Or do you subscribe to GLAAD's reactionary agenda, which tries to
paper over the non-1950s-Doris-Day-movie subcommunities within
the gay/lesbian community? 

> I beleive this to be the issue which is occurring at CMU -- not
> whether actors can act.

I don't know what you're complaining about.  You object to
gay stereotypes, and CMU is, according to you, ejecting men
who embody such stereotypes.  You should be happy.

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics