HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: esj@cs.brown.edu (Eugene Santos Jr.)
Subject: Re: Ok you scum
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:34:31 GMT

In article <1bfft2INN8p1@girtab.usc.edu> echeverr@scf.usc.edu (Evil Geniuses For a Better Tomorrow) writes:
>
>If taking 3rd and 4th space is a viable strategy to genocide a difficult
>LPS, i want to see it done in an INL game.  And then i want to see you crow
>about your 'genocide' on r.g.n.
>
>
>5150
>see, i think that cmu has the most talented netrek players anywhere.  but it's
>sad to see some of these 'masters' of netrek act like weenies by defending a
>weenie tactic.  hell, if you aren't good enough to genocide, let the timer
>do it.  that's what it was made for.
>

Oooooops! Now it's time for the "LPS Timer" debate now also. 
Shall we start a flame war again on whether the LPS Timer should
or should not be there? Bezier didn't have it. Bronco first implemented it.

Plasma, Lack of

uucp:	...!{ihnp4,decvax}!brunix!esj		Eugene Santos Jr.
bitnet:	esj@browncs.bitnet			PO Box 1910, Computer Science
arpa:	esj%cs.brown.edu@relay.cs.net		Brown University
csnet:	esj@cs.brown.edu			Providence, RI 02912
Organization: Senior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 23:13:47 -0400 
From: Kevin Michael Bernatz <kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ok you scum
	<1992Oct13.223431.22576@cs.brown.edu>

Grrr,
	All I have to say is that it surprises me to know end how many people
get so worked up over something so god damn stupid.  Who the fuck cares
if I took 4th space.. it's not like I do it every time I play.  If that
situation would repeat itself I would do it again.  That you don't like
it or agree with it, fine.  To quote Conan "The hell with you!"

-KB
 Rear Admiral "Who the hell gives a fuck" Akira
Commodore "Bill's just mad cause he lost" Sun Tzu

Organization: Sophomore, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Thu,  8 Oct 1992 15:56:14 -0400 
From: "John O. Kim" <jk5x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: What a dick!
	<718531779.7395.0@merope.weh.andrew.cmu.edu>

Hi all,

	I am really pissed at the dickness of people.
hanuman(spamgod@hardy.u.washington) or what ever his name is....kept
locking on and exploding on me for the whole game while I was a base on
rwd4 earlier todaythen died...HE sent me a message saying "ill kill
you"....if you ever see him playing again.....Ogg me  repeatedly for
me.....

Yea 'still pissed' Boy!!!!!
From: paulsen@stipple.seas.upenn.edu (FreeKill)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Dogfighting....again :(
Date: 12 Oct 92 02:16:47 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <seq=g3a00VpFI2Nkll@andrew.cmu.edu> kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu (Kevin Michael Bernatz) writes:
>Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 11-Oct-92 Re: Hell Peacock Scott
>Drellishak@soda.be (4075)
>
>> Out of curiosity, is there anyone out there who thinks I have a point?
>> So far, all I've seen is disagreement, and I find this discouraging.
>

The big problem Scott makes with his argument is that ogging is easy.
Ogging is easy against only clueless players.  Otherwise, it is very,
very difficult.  Justin will probably get flamed for how well he presents
himself as oggless, but its generally true.  Oggers can prevent people
from getting closer to their planet, but they should rarely actually
succeed in a 1-1 ogg.

However, dogfighting is very important.  If you want proof, watch Lance
play.  He is NOT an ogger, and he will be the first to tell you.  However,
he will kill your two escorts and then kill you because he is an incredible
dogfighter.

I think that both aspects of the game are equally important.  If you can't
dogfight, you probably can't do other parts of the game.  If you can't
ogg, you are giving up a great offensive and defensive tactic.

The mods you made to bezier did discourage ogging.  The effect this had,
I think, was to not only decrease ogging, but decrease the carrier's ability
to avoid oggs.  Even when I was relatively clueless, I remembered too many
times when I jumped on bezier, and ogged ALL of the enemies.  What was
worse is they didn't even really try to avoid me.

The players on bezier certainly had clue, but to get them to ignore ogging
was a serious detriment to their skills.  As I said ogging is a very, very
important skill, and most of the players were missing that skill.

> At CMU it no-longer mattered that you were a good
>dogfighter if you could not avoid oggs.

I disagree.  Most of the great players at CMU are also really good
dogfighters.  I refuse to believe the two are unrelated.

>Dogfighting lost its importance for most of the good CMU players, and
>this attitude has carried through.  The fact that CMU now possesses some
>of the strongest INL teams and calibre players is not unrelated to this,

I disagree again.  Most teams have really good oggers.  I think CMU's
dominance has more to do with their teamwork and always being able to
have escorts when they need it.  Most of the INL teams have strong enough
players that if they were to have the same level of teamwork, they could
seriously challenge CMU teams.

>You like the "old" style of netrek....but against the newer CMU version of
>netrek (they really are almost two separate games now) the old style
>loses.

Well said.

>>sfd
>-KB
Brian
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: bathurst@noaapmel.gov (Bill Bathurst)
Subject: Re: Rank
Organization: NOAA/PMEL, Sand Point Way, Seattle, WA
	<1992Oct12.211447@IASTATE.EDU> <1992Oct13.035120.27797@cs.brown.edu>
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 05:46:01 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.035120.27797@cs.brown.edu> esj@cs.brown.edu (Eugene Santos Jr.) writes:

I don't look at rank, I look at their stats.  I look at what ships they
play.  If someone SC bombs a lot I expect a lower Bombing/Planet/Offense
total.  If someone is a dedicated ogger I expected a good Boming/Planet/Offense
total.  It can be hard to quantify, but it is a sign of how productive a 
player is (as Spaceace mentioned).


Azusa "Death Sperm from Hell"
--
Bill Bathurst				Internet:	bathurst@noaapmel.gov 
NOAA/PMEL				Phone:		(206) 526-6765

Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 07:56:17 -0400 
From: Tomato Boy <stimpy+@cmu.edu>
Subject: INL SB Proposal

I'd like to propose that starbases get 9 updates per second
in the inl server. It's a trivial fix. (one line of code)
And could reduce the horrors of being an INL base. I already
made the change in my server, but realized that was against
the rules so I changed it back.

The only thing I see against this is it helps the home base
more than the away base. But it all depends on your connection.
At times, I've gotten 9ups at bigdog and it was smooth as a baby's
butt.


--Rick
"Bronco Netrek Server. You will never find a more wretched hive of
scum and villainy." -- Admiral Kenobi (aka Terence Chang)
From: bdhall@lucky.ecn.purdue.edu (Brian D Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Plasma Tactic
Keywords: Double-team, victim, BOOM!
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:08:30 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <jonathan.718877009@author.ecn.purdue.edu> jonathan@author.ecn.purdue.edu (Jonathan L Neuenschwander) writes:
>I've seen debates on fife and discovery over the usefulness of plasmas.  I
>maintain that used correctly they're golden.
>
>Here's a tactic that Xymox and I invented awhile back:
>
>It's really very simple, you and a teammate arm with plasmas, approach within a reasonable distance of your victim and fire simultaneously.  That's all there
>is to it.  Unless you fire from too far out, your victim's phasers won't have
>time to recharge and he's plasma toast.  Even if you screw up and fire from too
>far out, half the time the victim is so flustered by the sight of TWO plasmas
>heading for him that he'll miss the second one.  On a couple occasions I've    
>seen them miss BOTH.  ouch.  :-)
>
>It's a good idea to approach the target from opposite directions if possible,
>makes it more difficult for the target to dodge the shots.
>
>We originally came up with it one night when we both happened to refit with 
>plasmas at the same time.  We each picked up and planned to take neighboring
>planets.  We ended flying superimposed while discussing what to do about a
>Flt. Captain who was orbiting one of the intended planets, and that's when it
>occured to me that he probably wouldn't be able to get off TWO shots before 
>taking the hit.  So, while still flying superimposed, we fired together.  It 
>worked even better than I had hoped -- the plasmas came out superimposed.
>Sure enough, he phasered one, but I don't think he even saw the second one
>before it impacted on his hull.  That's right, *hull*.  He hadn't seen any
>need to raise his shields.  :-}
>
>It was a thing of exceeding beauty, a regular Kodak moment.
>
>


	This works real well against the server robots too.

   DarkHorse
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Minor MS-II changes
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:59:34 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <ld4lnaINN1gk@notrees.cs.utexas.edu> davidt@cs.utexas.edu (David Eng-Yeow Teo) writes:
>Is it possible to just count the number of players on each team and feed the data into the tournamentMask routine of the bronco server code and obtain the mask from there?  Although there are some servers that are non-bronco, most servers are.  This should negate the necessity to log in.

Whoa... hit the "return" key every once in a while.

The idea was to find out when the mask was 0, so that you could tell the
difference between a server with nobody on it and a server which was closed
and hence actively preventing anyone from playing there.

>[1m[4mDavid Eng-Yeow Teo[0m
>               [1m[7m>>>>> WHERE ILLUSION IS THE ULTIMATE WEAPON! <<<<<[0m

Not with news software which nukes escape chars.

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: hauck@cs.washington.edu (Scott Hauck)
Subject: Re: Sturgeon Mods: What do you do?
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 92 04:42:29 GMT

In article <81803@ut-emx.uucp> wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Chester) writes:
>Hi there.
>
>I've been playing at sturgeon for awhile and have noted all the mods that
>people use. I was wondering what mods all you fellow scummers at sturgeon
>get when you nail some unsuspecting victim. In other words, do you prefer
>weapons over shields, speed over recharges, etc. 

First off, I think the upgrades you get depend greatly on what you plan to do.
So, if you're a planet scum, cloak, refuel, and shield upgrades are the top of
the list.  If you're a kill scum, weapons may be first.

Secondly, remember that the ship you get your kills in doesn't need to be the
ship type you upgrade in - you can switch ships and then upgrade.  This is
important because if you're spending a lot of time turning a CA into a BB, or
an SC into a DD, there's a crossover point where you should just take a ne
ship and upgrade that.

I personally play like a warp 5 SB - I want to get kills, escort players, and
generally control the space around me.  So, I start with a CA and wait until
I get about 2.20 kills.  Then, switch to a BB, get 2x accel and either a torp
or a fuel regen upgrade.  From there, I try for (total) 2xphaser, 2xtorp,
2xfuel regen, 2xaccel, 1xdecel.  At this point, you can get where you want an
kill who you want.  From there, I'd pump the rest into weapons and possibly
fuel regen.

Remember though, this is tailored to my play style.  These would be a stupi
plan on top of a CA or DD hull, and stupid for a planet-scum.  Tailor the
upgrades to the ship and the play style.

One final note - don't use all your kills on upgrades.  It always helps to have
at least one army on board in a sturgeon game because 1.) Armys are almost
always available 2.) independent planets are often there riped for the picking

A second final note - your SB Ogg plan assumes you've got a team with all
members ready to do a concerted Ogg, and all with a couple kills.  This'll
never happen.  I really wish one player could have multiple plasmas going at
a time - then you buy a pseudo-plasma and a couple 5's, and fire them all off
in rapid fire.  Watch the SB captain scream into vacuum!

Scott Hauck
hauck@cs.washington.edu
From: hennessy@acsu.buffalo.edu (DOG BASEBALL!!!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Jousting
Date: 10 Oct 92 16:37:50 GMT
Organization: Ministry of Information, Lower Volta.


	considering the relatively large expansion over the past year or so,
you can actually find sites that don't get incredibly uptight over such things


-- 
   /I\          Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.
  /(*)\         hennessy@acsu.buffalo.edu                 
 /IIIII\        "Leave EVERYTHING to ME!" - Powdered Toast Man       
/IIIIIII\       Happiness is a warm gun.
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 23:01:23 -0400 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: The neverending thread
	<1992Oct12.155419.24509@wixer.cactus.org>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 12-Oct-92 Re: The neverending
thread Felix S. Gallo@wixer.cac (1505)

> grand double admiral sunscreamer
> minister of truth, hell's bagels

I liked rear ensign better.

ZZnew guy
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: von@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Von Worley)
Subject: Re: LA Riot -vs- GB, game stats
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 07:20:09 GMT

In article <0eqEJ3m00Vpa036kpQ@andrew.cmu.edu> "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 11-Oct-92 Re: LA Riot -vs- GB,
>game s.. Steve Von Worley@cory.Be (1051)
>
>> >Golden Bears at :) at flint, Bears playing without UDP and :) playing
>> >with UDP.
>
>> Mojo you are such a weenie!  Why do you have to rehash this over and
>> over and over... ?
>
>	Because I asked if there were any other games made controversial by
>lag?  Tom was quite civil about his response.  Sheesh.  Knowing what I
>know of flint, I'd say it probably did affect the game.

Instead of just saying "Golden Bears at :)", Mojo insists on accusing
us of using UDP in the match mentioned above, when we agreed not to
beforehand.  His insinuation is very insulting to former Team :) 
members; he is in effect calling us liars, as we have assured him we
used TCP.  Thus, I issued a rebuttal, as I was captain of the 
revered Team :).

Good enough?

>ZZnew guy

Sandia
-- 
Steve Von Worley
von@cory.berkeley.edu
Computer Science Gradual Student
University of California at Berzerkly
From: genie@netcom.com (Gene Choi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: LA Riot -vs- GB, game stats
Date: 11 Oct 92 00:19:25 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <Bvx83H.66H.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:
>
>I've said it before, and i'll say it again...calvin sucks.  It is has the  
>WORST lag in the entire country.  I wish some other west coast server  
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You're right about that.  But yesterday's packet loss was worse
than worst.  Never was the net that bad.  Sorry to sounds
too bitchy.  But it was really that bad.  No team in my opinion
could ever beat a clueful team with that kind of packet loss.

It usually took 2-3 "l" to lock onto planets, 2-3 "c"'s to cloak.
Many times, I wanted to ogg carriers, and wanted to commence cloaking
before I entered the carrier's screen.  Pressed "c" - no cloak.
What??  Now I'm already in the guy's screen and he's firing torps
straight up at my face..  Can't remember how many times this
happened.

The most amusing part of the game was when I ogged lukyluke.
I got ONE updates to get the phasor lock, at which point I fired
my stream with one more update.  Net frozen.  Nothing seen for 
10 secs.  Finally back in action with lukyluke ogged.  Shish..

Home field advantage is one thing.  But to make things unplayable
as yesterday is another.  This reminded me of the one time
where joystick and I had set up a clue game on "haas.berkeley.edu"
during the summer.  Everyone complained that net lag and
packet loss was incredible.  Players from Berkeley felt no lag
though...  Guess that's the kind of thing that happened yesterday.

Gene
From: botelle@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Justin Botelle)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Hell Peacock
Date: 10 Oct 92 02:56:44 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1b3gmiINNogb@agate.berkeley.edu) sfd@soda.berkeley.edu (Scott Drellishak) writes:
)In article <Bvtv1G.88C.2@cs.cmu.edu) hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:
))Scott 'I have spoken' Drellishak writes

))) Tremble in fear.

)Since I've only played on discovery, calvin, bigdog (when it's full),
)and sturgeon in the last few months, it seems unlikely that I'd ever

afraid to play with the big boys, Scott?

)encounter you.  In any case, I play netrek to relax after work, not to
)winwinwinwinwin.  The biggest flaw of the now-popular CMU style of
)play is that it turns netrek from a game into a contest.  Frankly, I'd
)rather play a fun game of softball than an all-out game of baseball.
)If you take my meaning.

Yeah, you don't know how to play hardball

)Just out of curiosity, those of you have played against me in the last
)couple of months, send me mail and tell me if you take me seriously as
)a player.  I can't remember the last time somebody totally dominated

I don't.  I didn't take you seriously as a server god.  Bezier sucked, and
I'm glad it's dead.

And if you can't remember the last time someone dominated you, maybe it's
because you're afraid to play on bronco.  Btw, didn't IAState dominate you?

Maybe you should arrange a scrimmage with TTWNN or Side Salad.

)No, you don't understand *our* (yours too) heritage.  Next thing,

How earthy.  Heritage.  Netrek?  Something that has been around less than
a decade can not have heritage.  What's next:  antiques?

)The reason I don't like the current trend in netrek is that it takes
)what I consider to be the fun parts of the game away.  The CMU style
)is a successful strategy, given the current rules of netrek, but any
)style which de-emphasizes dogfighting (which is what Xtrek was
)originally about, before cloaking, stats, and planet-taking) is, in my
)opinion, boring.  It's a video game.

ogging is fun.

)standard server.  Can somebody help me get my tongue out of my cheek?

No, we need to get the foot out first.
)-- 
)/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
)| Scott Drellishak   sfd@neuromancer.metaphor.com                          |
)|                "Spumco ... the Danes call it quality."                   |
)\--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

Justin
(chi^]H^]H^]HXXX, Rob^]H^]H^]H, Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jmh@athena.mit.edu (J Michael Hammond)
Subject: Re: Ok you scum  and Re: Feature Update Proposal
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 12:18:13 GMT

Once again, sorry for not clipping out all the relevant discussion and
pasting here.

I don't propose that the time-delay-between-ships rule be installed in
pickup games.  The arguments presented against it (including
specifically the post on "Ogger-Quitter Scum") are compelling.  If you
don't have the option of quitting and re-joining the game, however, as
would be true in a pitched battle (INL game, etc.), then Ogg-Quit
Scumming isn't possible.

Another person notes how you could fairly easily bust a LPS by ogging
the defenders and then having the carrier fly in on the
undefended-for-twenty-seconds LP.  True true!  The time delay
necessarily implies that last planet stands are easier to break
through.  If players know that the LPS is fairly easily busted,
however, don't you think it would make people pay more attention to
the initial fight at the front lines?


In article <1992Oct14.175311.21030@wixer.cactus.org> 
rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo) writes:

>Personally, I find beating my head against a brick wall frustrating and
>aggravating.  I play netrek for fun and enjoyment, not as a character-
>gaining boot camp.

This idea is the basis for my suggestion.  The last few planets should
be tougher to take than the first few, but it's way out of balance.
Improving this balance by making individual lives more worthwhile is a
pleasant solution.

--JMike
From: bond@cpss7.cps.msu.edu (Curtis R Bond)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Tmode scumming
Date: 10 Oct 92 21:15:53 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University

No t mode at the time. 3 against may does not a t mode make.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: sherod@newton.Colorado.EDU (Scott Herod)
Subject: New way to annoy people
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 03:53:49 GMT

I realized a new way to annoy people today at discovery.  It was
Rom/Fed and about even in planets.  Both sides had SB's which were
both at the front near Rig.  There was no serious ogg waves going
on from either side so the situation was rather static.  Interestingly
neither base was attacking the other.

Of course both bases had declared peace with the other team.

The annoying thing I found...No I was helping the Rom base
by showing him which of his teammates were stupid enough to
fire torps over him as I sat there at peace and cloaked.

And for all my trouble he said I was being a d__k.

Mad DDogg
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: INL Strategy: Is Ori and Kli playable?
Date: 7 Oct 1992 06:06:01 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <BvqC19.29J.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:
)
)Question:
)
)Are the orions and the kligons playable in a game versus the feds and the  
)roms?  When I mean playable, I mean it is possible to win in an otherwise  
)close game.

I think planet setups are way overrated; AGRI placement and the 
position of MIR do not determine the outcome of even a close game,
in my experience.  A team that has two front-line AGRIs might be
screwed, but they could also have a big advantage; if that team gets
off to an early lead, they can push that much harder because they'll have
armies available close to the front.  It's also much harder to scout
bomb front-line planets, since there are always ships around.

INL games are lost by the team that allows their opponent to dictate the
location and style of the battle.  If you have a front-line AGRI
and spend the entire game fighting over it (as the Bears did in
our scrimmage loss to TTWNN), you will lose.  If you keep trading
MIR or SPI back and forth as KLI or ORI, you will lose.  The key
is to accomplish a more important objective while allowing your
opponent to accomplish theirs.

INL games are won by teams that keep an aggressive posture.  If I'm
Klingon and the Roms take MIR while we take ERI, I'm happy.  If we can 
take SIR and REG, MIR will be simple to take back.  Just ignore it 
until that time and fight the battle in the enemy's space.

I will say that it is easy to fall into the trap of taking MIR back
first, especially if the enemy leaves only one army on it; this is,
in my mind, a waste of time and resources and does not foster an
aggressive stance (since they can just come back through Ori space
and take it again).

Fight in their territory; I'm sure Sun Tzu had something to say about 
that.
 -Tom
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek