From: LRPR000 <LRPR@UNB.CA>
Subject: RE: Magic Shops
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 15:56:23 GMT

>This isn't localized to one DM; most of them seem to handle it the same
>way.  And it isn't limited to a shop which SELLS items; if I find an
>item in the field and bring it into town to sell (for gold, experience,
>etc.) I always seem to run across some bozo who knows exactly what it
>is and exactly what it's worth.
   Well, that's wrong. short of limted wish or wish, or commune,
or contact other plane (which is not 100%) there should be no
way to know exactly. So the buyer should assume the worst value for
the weapon.
>What's to prevent player and non-player characters from cheating
>each other blind?  "Honest, I got this +3 sword from my Uncle Kaboom,
>who enchanted it himself.  He cast Enchanted Weapon three times."
   And I have a nice bridge in Flatbush you should take a look at...
>AD&D1 Bards help; their Item Knowledge could do an absolute ID.
>(Maybe, depending on how you read the rules.)  But that was pretty
>darned unreliable -- at least as unreliable as the Bards themselves.
>The time limit in Identify is too short to be useful, and it
>occasionally gives false readings.
   The ADD2 bard also has some abilities in this regard.  In the
forgotten realms, priests of Tempus can tell you the exact pluses
(but not other special abilities, like detecting magic, etc) of any
weapon they are proficient with (which could be any non-missile weapon).
However, can you trust a CN?(maybe yes, if you are a devout worshipper).
>But in AD&D2, there seems to be no way to get a positive ID on an item.
   See above.
>There is a hard way to identify the magical bonuses on a weapon.  If
>it can hurt a flesh golem, but not an elemental, it's +1.  If it can
>hurt an elemental, but not an iron golem, it's +2.  If it can hurt
>an iron golem, why are you trying to sell it in the first place?
>Perhaps the well-established magic shop would have a flesh golem,
>a stone golem, a clay golem and an iron golem, just for testing
>weapons.  (How would you distinguish +3 from +4 or +5?  Or are all
>of the +4 and +5 weapons on your world so legendary that there could
>be no mistaking one?  If so, what's the legend?  And what about
>forgeries?)
   Whoa - if I owned a set of golems, I'd be in a different line of
business.
>But how can you test magic armor?  We'd have to assume that neither
>player nor non-player characters have access to armor class tables and
>to-hit scores, so we can't really determine the values numerically
>or statistically.
   Nope. Perhaps the Det. Magic spell, which shows the general
intensity of the magic, would show the difference between a +1 and +3
suit.
>If you're a 14th level fighter who's been ID'ing items for years, you
>would probably be able to distinguish a shield +3 from +1 with a little
>sparring practice.  But could you tell +2 from +1?
   Probably not.
>And who's going to test those nasty miscellaneous items, especially
>books?  I wouldn't want to be the first one to open that dusty old
>tome you found in the lich's lair, even if the cleric's Augury spells
>assure me it's OK.  The AD&D1 psionic ability, Precognition, would be
>great here, but that's gotta be pretty rare.
  NO WAY a magic shop owner is going to do that.
>Security is another big issue.  How could you possibly protect a magic
>shop from a determined group of adventurers?  The old "barbarian guard
>in the corner, with a crossbow at the ready" wouldn't intimidate a
>properly prepared 5th level party, much less somebody high level.
   Only an arch-mage could run one.
>I can understand a thriving business in potions and scrolls (they're
>easier to make, easier to ID, more portable, and have a larger demand
>than armor, weapons and misc. items).  I can understand most rings
>(protection being the exception).  But how can a shop keeper make
>a profit?
   How often do you guys sell magic items, anyway? I NEVER do,
except in trade for things like wishes or resurrection spells.
Assessing the real market value of a +1 sword, in terms of the
time and effort required to create it, by a 16th level mage
using permanency, with a 5% chance of lost CON and 6 months or
more of his precious time, indicates it's worth a small fortune.
Not to mention the value to someone who's beset by creatures hit only by
magic weapons (e.g. the Duchy is beset by flights of Gargoyles;
if the Duke has few spellcasters, he'll pay a LOT to have swords for
his better knights that can actually hit). My sol'n is that magic
items are never sold in a shop; they're far too valuable, and, as
pointed out above, an unknown quantity. Most people should be taking a
month in a major city to find a merchant, noble, wizard, temple or
thieves' guild with the 60,000 GP to buy a +1 long sword. This puts
a lot of money in the player's hands (this is a FR campaign; low money
campaigns should reduce values accordingly). But it's generally true
that uncle Kaboom's +1 Long Sword should be worth a small keep (though
not the land and rights to tax the peasantry to support one).
                             JubbaBones

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd