HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jky@buengf.bu.edu (John Yu)
Newsgroups: alt.irc
Subject: Re: Useless Bots
Date: 26 Jul 92 22:56:57 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: jky@buengf.bu.edu

In article <BrnJE2.I9x@cs.dal.ca> dinn@ug.cs.dal.ca (Michael 'Moose' Dinn) writ\
es:
>
>How many of these are useless? obviously some are not; I don't consider
>Nickserv or Noteserv & company useless.
>
>A logging bot or 2 is obviously useful too.
>
>But a lot of these suckers sit along on channels for ages with nothing
>better to do than introduce net-clutter.
>
>I say we make a move to eliminate useless bots from IRC.
>I for one have removed the -b option from ircII in the local client for
>ug.cs.dal.ca.
>
>
>*          KID_BOT   H   graye@bradley.bradley.edu (Gary Raye - lead vocalist \
for KID ZERO)
>#hottub    Bottle    H@  jain@bartok.CES.CWRU.Edu (Running Bench Mark Programs\
)
> ************etc etc etc of other "useless bots"**********************
>--
> Michael Dinn, Sysop of the Moose's Swamp - Nova Scotia's largest Amiga BBS
> +1 (902) 492-1035 * HST/V.32 & V.42bis * 300-14,400 baud * 220 Megs online
> dinn@ug.cs.dal.ca * moose@swamp.UUCP       | The best way to accelerate a
> Moderator of comp.[sources|binaries].amiga | Mac is at 9.8 m/s/s.

--Re:  Bot-Opposer

   As i can see, you are opposed of bots on irc.  But i am writing to
tell you that you have over generalized your statement.  I am the owner
of HKServ which is on your list (not to mention twice).
   On the contrary, HKServ as well as many other bots that reside in other
channels in irc do have a purpose other than as you claim, "sit along on 
channels for ages with nothing better to do than introduce net-clutter."
#HK is considered one of irc's major channels usually servicing numbers of
users daily.  I can't fathom what you are talking about because
HKServ is not a noise maker, just an op-bot.  HKServ's main purpose is
to auto-op ppl from a limited list of trusted users who can maintain the
channel.  Of course, a major channel needs ops who are responsible to
watch over the channel, especially from obnoxious users.  If there were no
bots in #hk, or even irc in the whole, then irc would be an unorganized 
hell-hole for communication.
   Another article regarding HKServ as useless states so because it doesn't 
offer and user help or information.  My answer is well HKServ has already
done its join by maintaining #hk itself, anything else is extra.  Hey, we're
not getting paid for this work and no one asks for this service, so for the
bot-writers sake, be patient.  Actually, HKServ has some built in user 
functions in it yet the help screen hasn't been installed yet.
    I'm not saying there aren't any "useless" bots out there, but i think
an evaluation based on a wide generalization is wrong.  I implore you to
reevaluate you claims....

    J.K.Y.  <----Signature  ;) 
   -jky
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed)
Subject: Re: Top 50 Killers (12/7/92-19/7/92)
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
Date: 25 Jul 92 12:12:39 GMT

jvmg9796@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Doc) writes:

>avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed) writes:

>>Not really.  How many of the above would you really want to answer ?

>I wouldnt mind helping out a newbie.  Sheez its not that hard to be 
>helpful.

No, but after a while it becomes tedious.  There are some who ask
beginner questions but the question is stupid or they dont understand
the question or answers. eg, last night, a person came on #tz and
asked about securing their host by killing all listening processes.
The people present tried to answer the question but it became evident
that the person asking the question didnt know what type of security
they wanted or if it would be secure and those present became somewhat
disenchanted with the individual.  These type of people are very annoying
and lead to the other conditions of the channel.  But maybe its time
some of #twilight_zone 'moved on'...to say, #Old_Ones or some other
backwater where people can seek us out for quesions that the new guard
of #tz cant answer.  If you want to lend a hand, join the channel and
stay a while....stay forever :)..maybe you'll see why then.

[...]
>People are only trying to use good manners when they ask that.  They
>would think themselves rather due if they just joined the channel and
>said "hey, how do you.....?"  so they try to introduce themselves by
>asking if anyone can help them.  

blah, humbug!#@

>>People who come onto the channel and ask questions which are to the
>>point usually get answers quite quickly (if people are available and
>>able to anwser).

>Well I have followed the "rules" you listed, cam onto tz and asked
>my question, waited...waited....waited.....nothing.  Or, the conver-

Probably because nobody is there (had been said and explained many times).

>sation at hand continued as if I werent even there.  How could
>people not get the impression that the channel was inhabited by
>snobs with that kind of (non) response?  

Perhaps everyone present saw who you were and decided that you were
lame and an obnoxious news poster and ignored you ? >:->

av
From: dxandy@cs.widener.edu (Andrew Greenshields)
Newsgroups: alt.irc
Subject: Help with getting on irc.
Date: 30 Jul 92 22:05:11 GMT
Organization: Widener University CS Department, Chester PA
NNTP-Posting-Host: ashley.cs.widener.edu


  I have a problem getting on irc.  My default server is
fairhope.andrew.cmu.edu.  After a wait of a few seconds I get a
message that I am unable to connect because fairhope is an unknown
host.  I tried to ping fairhope, but didn't have any luck, so that
might explain why I can't get in.

  I tried changing servers to irc.virginia.edu which someone said was
up and running (and ping-able).  However, I get the message
"Connecting to port..." and nothing else.  I can leave the maching
sitting for several minutes without getting any response.  I have been
having this problem for about three or four days.  My sys admin says
he knows of no reason why this should be happening.

  I would be very grateful if someone could tell me what the problem
might be and how I might go about fixing it.

Thanks.

-- 
  Andrew J. Greenshields N3IGS    |  Some people can tell what time it is by
  dxandy@cs.widener.edu           |  looking at the Sun, but I have never been
  dxandy@cyber.widener.edu        |  able to make out the numbers.
-----------------------***STANDARD DISCLAIMERS APPLY***------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: dms50304@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Darkman)
Subject: Re: Useless Bots
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 07:11:35 GMT
Keywords: significant words from a document used as an index to content

StarWatcher@uiuc.edu (StarWatcher) writes:

>Then the channel would not be a reasonably "open" one.  Is there a way
>to code a bot to "invite all people except those who have been jerks
>on this channel before, or who have harassed regular channel users
>in /msg's under various nicks"?  That kind of bot would, IMHO, be too
>cumbersome to write and maintain to be practical.  And what happens

Why would this be so difficult?  If the person who programs the bot knows squat
about ircII it would be extremely easy.  Scenario:  someone msgs the bot for
an invite, bot checks login of user against an array of bad logins, if said
login is not on the list invite them, then when the person joins, check them
against another array to see if they should be oped.  Easy.  Bots should never
function of nicks, use user@host, very reliable against all but those who know
how to fake logins.

As a side note, I do agree that all moronic Baloo style bots should be shot
on site.  (nothing personal baloo)

-- 
___________________________________________________________.
|   Daryn Sharp    /\ University of Illinois /\ Engineering |
| Darkman@uiuc.edu \/    Champaign-Urbana    \/  CS Major   | 
!___________________________________________________________!
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed)
Subject: Re: Useless Bots
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:25:04 GMT

hrose@eff.org (Helen Trillian Rose) writes:

[...]
>Actually, a while back (say about 18mos-2 years), Chris Davis
>(ckd@eff.org) and I wrote an automaton robot that would sit on a channel
>and randomly say "I like [foobar] alot" where [foobar] was something
>they saw that just went by in channel convo's. Alot of people *really
>thought* that this robot was real.... that is, until the robot said "I
>like Hitler alot" (there had been some conversation about WW-2). Quite a
>giggle to see what people would believe...

More recently, I just fired up a client with *1* /on and joined a couple
of the more 'popular' (by population) channels.

Granted it was a /on ctcp action, but there were numerous people who
thought I was a robot...one person even sent me "help", "info".

Was one of the funniest things I've ever seen :-D

av
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From:  (kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu (SunCat))
Subject: Re: Death to BAD CRAZINESS !
Organization: Money Sucking University
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 17:53:40 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.070522.2165@rat.csc.calpoly.edu>, asamonte@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Just some loser...) writes:
> 
> kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) was telling me...
> >In article <76696@ut-emx.uucp> dougmc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Doug McLaren) writes:
> >>*** DemoN has changed the topic on channel #Hottub to nobody likes me
> >> +everybody hates me think I'll go e (eat worms ... got cut off :()
> >> 
> >>331 Bad Craziness (from toaster.sfsu.edu)
> >>331 Bad Craziness (from coyote.cs.wmich.edu)
> >>331 Bad Craziness (from sakura.ces.kyutech.ac.jp)
> >>331 Bad Craziness (from blue.cc.hokudai.ac.jp)
> >>
> >>Isn't it about time that we did away with these, and perhaps the other,
> >>slightly newer 2.6 servers?
> >
> >But I *like* Bad Craziness.  In fact, I'm starting a new IRC server
> >which will do nothing but spew bad craziness--as well as good craziness
> >and plain old ordinary craziness--throughout the world.  After all, bad
> 
> As amatter of fact I was thinking about this the other day, and I thought.
> Is there such a thing as 'good craziness'?  Perplexed me for a while.
> Then I thought...well if I was facing a murder charge, craziness might
> be deemed 'good'.  But other than that...I dunno.
> 
> Anyone have an opinion?
> 
> -Alex
But of course.  Bad craziness is *bad*.  Good craziness keeps the world safe for 
for democracy.  It might even work within the US borders.
> 
> -- 
>                                                   Here i am
>                                                   Here i am
>                                                   Waiting for
> churritz@polyslo.calpoly.edu (skito)              you         -This Mortal Coil
> 
> 
SunCat
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: dougmc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Doug McLaren)
Subject: Re: Useless Bots
Organization: Doug's House of Disco
Keywords: significant words from a document used as an index to content
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:02:15 GMT
X-Posted-From: dopey.cc.utexas.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <Bs1x4M.80y@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Upholder@uiuc.edu (THE Upholder of Truth) writes:

>MyBot is sitting on channel #Just-people-for-MyBot which is +i and MyBot
>is the only operator.
>
>luser OwnerOfBot ask for and is given an invite because he is trusted by
>MyBot, but MyBot doesn't op him.  Now we have a person on the channel who
>isn't operator and a bot who is.  The Bot is at this point the only one who
>can invite.. and if the bot never ops anyone, then the bot will always be
>the only one who can invite... 
>
>I see more problems with the scenerio than with a bot that ops those people
>it invites....

MrBot is not a good example of a useful bot :)

First of all, his 'email' address : asshole@192.41.205.7.  I can't even
telnet to this host (Host is Unreachable), so I can't even finger him, but
if I could, I really doubt asshole is the real user-id of his owner.
(His owner is Hendrix, jimi@sarge.hq.Verdix.COM.)

MrBot's purpose? To protect Hendrix, and to annoy people he doesn't like.
To Protect: simple ... auto-op Hendrix, kick and ban anybody who kicks
or deops him, etc ...
To Annoy: he will make sure that people who Hendrix does not like are banned
all the time (and he has this nasty habit of banning addresses like
*!*@*utexas.edu ...)
Also, MrBot has been known to flood people by cat'ing files (binary, usually)
to them, and for changing his user-id in order to evade ignores.  (Or Hendrix
will have 4 copies of MrBot each under a different user-id, flooding people.

Look at the '50 top killers' list ... you will see that MrBot is one of the
more popular kill targets ...

Good Bot or Bad Bot ... you make the call !

One more thing ... who cares what happens on channel #Just-people-for-MyBot ?
(Oh No! I can't get op on #Just-people-for-MyBot ?  Whatever will I do ?)

   DemoN

-- 
The opinions stated above are mine (and quite possibly mine alone!)  However,
 for a brief time, and a nominal fee, they can be yours too.  Operators are 
standing by! Call Now! DouG McLareN, dougmc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu, DemoN on IRC.
From: dougmc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Doug McLaren)
Newsgroups: alt.irc
Subject: Death to BAD CRAZINESS !
Date: 28 Jul 92 04:25:48 GMT
Reply-To: dougmc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Doug McLaren)
Organization: Doug's House of Disco
Originator: dougmc@dopey.cc.utexas.edu

*** DemoN has changed the topic on channel #Hottub to nobody likes me
 +everybody hates me think I'll go e (eat worms ... got cut off :()
 
331 Bad Craziness (from toaster.sfsu.edu)
331 Bad Craziness (from coyote.cs.wmich.edu)
331 Bad Craziness (from sakura.ces.kyutech.ac.jp)
331 Bad Craziness (from blue.cc.hokudai.ac.jp)

Hmmm ... we're down to four early 2.6 servers ...  It used to be much worse...

Isn't it about time that we did away with these, and perhaps the other,
slightly newer 2.6 servers?

All these servers do is bitch ... they bitch when you go usermode +i or -o,
when you topic, etc. ...

Isn't it about time that they caught up with the rest of the net, or get
severed from the rest of the net ?

Just an idea ...

   DemoN

PS: I DO know how to keep from seeing these messages, it's just that not
    everybody does ...

    Until that day ... /on ^331 * # ...
-- 
The opinions stated above are mine (and quite possibly mine alone!)  However,
 for a brief time, and a nominal fee, they can be yours too.  Operators are 
standing by! Call Now! DouG McLareN, dougmc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu, DemoN on IRC.
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: spidy@acca.nmsu.edu (Da Spidy-Mon)
Subject: IRC RULES: All Newbies listen up! (Cont.)
Organization: New Mexico State University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 13:30:59 GMT
From: masdough@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Dough the Demented)
Newsgroups: alt.irc
Subject: Re: Useless Bots
Date: 27 Jul 92 03:33:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Jul27.004055.16513@nic.umass.edu>, s6883289@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Peter Hawkins) writes...
> 
>oh well, the netnews system has been in existence for years and i don't see
>how it has become an 'unorganized hell-hell' for communication..

News also has moderated boards.. Not anyone can create a newgroup and have it
accepted worldwide.. Unless it is alt... Now, redo your comparson and you might
find that News has in own form of bots... They just aren't called bots.

:-)

>most of the problematic channels are those that exist without a well-defined 
>purpose. you rarely see much problems in #initgame, #warez #hack because
>these channels exist for a specific purpose, you know what to do when you get
>there and their respective users don't like to see you doing unrelated things.

And the bots are there to make sure that you don't do unrelated things.. (Keeps
the people from having to control the board instead of being anle to talk.)

There are 2 types of bots - the ones where the owners are assholes.. then there
are the rest.. Don't get rid of the the bots.. Get rid of the assholes :)

Dough
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: gl8f@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl)
Subject: Re: IRC information
Organization: Department of Astronomy, University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 05:49:50 GMT

In article <Bs6MHD.FM1@cmptrc.lonestar.org> jwoods@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Jeff Woods) writes:

>Personally, I'd settle for an explanation of just what IRCs are about.

IRC is the anti-christ. It will rot your brain. Repent before it is
too late.

Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: ckp2n@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Chris Powell)
Subject: Re: Patriot Games
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 13:20:47 GMT

adean@weber.ucsd.edu  writes:

> Well, I guess it's better than sitting here picking my nose.
> Are we put-off yet?
> -- 
> --- avd

Anthony, I was put-off by your pointless drivel long ago.

Chris Powell

Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au (Darren Reed)
Subject: Re: RTF[M,S] - Re: Top 50 Killers (12/7/92-19/7/92)
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
Date: 24 Jul 92 10:36:39 GMT

S_TITZ@iravcl.ira.uka.de (Olaf Titz) writes:

>In <avalon.711947810@sorokin> avalon@sorokin.anu.edu.au writes:

>>  Since the manual is rather brief, RTFS.
>>  Thats how to learn the inner details of the IRC programs.
>>  The reast of the knowledge on routing, etc, comes from being
>>  'net-aware' (having maps of networks, knowing where you are
>>  in relation to everyone else, what is good/fast, what is slow/bad,
>>  etc).
>>  
>>  Both take time.
>>  
>>  avalon

>All that is true (exists a *manual*?), but I can tell that life for
>client-coders (in this case) could be much easier if there were 
>- a reasonably small, consistent IRC protocol and
>- *documentation* on this (not just comments in sources about
>'hopefully having grasped all messages')

The protocol is consistant (except for a few typos :).  Its just that
clients dont expect things to change within the protocol (like adding
a ':' in somewhere it wasnt expected).
From the looks of it, IrcII 2.2 has got the parser right (finally!).
The basic parser in the server isnt complex (just dealing with the
individual commands :).  Most things should be listed in the Comms file
as Helen mentioned in another article.

>I have heard that some folks are developing version 3 of irc, being
>incompatible with 2.7. Please, at least *consider* writing an RFC
>about it!

Hahahaha...there hasnt been much said/done about this lately although
people have been thinking about it (ie a mention was made about using
multicast IP and just clients).

Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Useless Bots
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
	<Bs52nD.L9L@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:18:51 GMT

Darkman> == Darkman  <dms50304@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> 

 Darkman> Easy.  Bots should never function of nicks,

True; nicks are not an identifier, just a temporary tag at best.

 Darkman> use user@host, very reliable against all but those who know
 Darkman> how to fake logins.

Well, gee, security through (not-very) obscurity... login faking is
trivial under most conditions (unless your server is set up to check
with identd, *and* your machine is running an identd, *and* you don't
switch servers to one that doesn't check with identd...)

This is also assuming that a server hasn't been compromised, which
allows you to fake both user and host (just ask BIFF@BIT.NET, who was
registered with NickServ for a while :-).
--
Christopher Davis * ckd@eff.org * System Administrator, EFF * +1 617 864 0665
   ``The First Amendment is often inconvenient.  But that is besides the
  point.  Inconvenience does not absolve the government of its obligation
         to tolerate speech.'' --Justice Anthony Kennedy, in 91-155
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: TCWS <TCWS@MUSIC.TCS.TULANE.EDU>
Subject: IRC? Sounds interesting.
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-23394]: music.tcs.tulane.edu
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Tulane Univ., New Orleans, LA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 20:03:32 GMT

Hi! I have heard some things about IRC, and would be interested in
participating... I hear you need some software? If so, then where
can I acquire it via FTP? Also, how do I connect with this service?

Bill Sirinek (Tulane University, New Orleans, Louisiana)











Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Top 50 Killers (12/7/92-19/7/92)
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:21:58 GMT

Herman> == Herman H. Fredriksson <herm@coombs.anu.edu.au> 

 Herman> For the last week, a tally has been kept of the number of kills
 Herman> made by operators and servers. The top 50 killers are posted below.
 Herman> The logs were made over the period starting Sun 12th July 1992 until
 Herman> Sun 19th July 1992. Draw your own conclusions.

These were a little skewed by client development work on the perl
client.  There were a couple runaway CPU-munching loops in the code, not
to mention a few other problems :)

(This resulted in a lot of kills for nicks like trilx, ckdpl, triltest,
ckdperl, and the like... ;-)

Ah well.
--
Christopher Davis * ckd@eff.org * System Administrator, EFF * +1 617 864 0665
   ``The First Amendment is often inconvenient.  But that is besides the
  point.  Inconvenience does not absolve the government of its obligation
         to tolerate speech.'' --Justice Anthony Kennedy, in 91-155
Newsgroups: alt.irc
From: mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar Mukund Mirashi)
Subject: Re: Top 50 Killers (12/7/92-19/7/92)
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:19:20 GMT

In article <CKD.92Jul22110054@loiosh.eff.org> ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis) writes:
>Ove> == Ove Ruben R Olsen <buboo@alf.uib.no> 
>
> Ove> Is this client using select () ; or fork () ; ?
>
>select().  The problems were in the screen interface handling code; on
>one occasion, the word-wrap module went insane and started sending
>output to the terminal as fast as it could.  Since it was on a local
>xterm process rather than a "real terminal", that was pretty fast.
>(Unfortunately so fast that the window manager was getting cycle-starved
>from all the updates the X server was trying to deal with.)
>
>Note to implementors: be very careful how you do word-wrap :)
>
>--
>Christopher Davis * ckd@eff.org * System Administrator, EFF * +1 617 864 0665
>   ``The First Amendment is often inconvenient.  But that is besides the
>  point.  Inconvenience does not absolve the government of its obligation
>         to tolerate speech.'' --Justice Anthony Kennedy, in 91-155

I have been reading this newsgroup for some time now, and in fact tried
IRC only after I saw this newsgroup! But articles like the one stated
above continue to befuddle me. I am still learning (and would like to
learn more)...... There seems to be an elite group of hackers (IRC ops?)
who know the very inner details of the workings of IRC (like ping times,
routing, hubs, and stuff like in the article above). Could any of you
"gurus" please enlighten me, and perhaps suggest a book where I could
learn more of IRC, routers, etc. I can program in C, Pascal, etc. 

Thank You!

Newsgroups: alt.irc