From: jeana@sco.COM (Jean Antisdel)
Subject: Potty Training, Summary of Responses (3 Year)
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 23:48:25 GMT


Hi Everyone


Thanks so much for your responses to my request for help
regarding my 3 year old son and motivating him for potty training.
Included below is my original question, a brief summary of some of
the suggestions, and appended responses.    It would probably be
useful to add this to the potty training faq for whoever is keeping
it??

Thanks again!!!  

Original Question :

Potty training.  I've read the faq already... perhaps I just need
to be patient?  I think he is ready for potty training but he has
no interest in sitting on his potty chair.  He says "no, i'm not big
enough yet".  He knows when he is going.  Sometimes he'll tell me in
advance when he is going to go.  He doesn't like to run around naked
or in just a diaper.  We've read lots of potty type books like Mr Rogers
talks about potty training, once upon a potty, etc and he enjoys the
book... but still no interest.  Any suggestions on how to motivate him?

Summary
	- show him a friend his own age who is toilet trained so he
	realizes he is old enough
	- try not using diapers since it's summer, they usually hate
	wet pants
	- have a basket of things (stickers, small toys, raisens, etc) to pick
	from when there are successes.  start with small successes and
	add/build from there.
	- get him a special potty toy that can only be played with while
	on the potty
	- try different kinds of pottys
	- find underpants with a favorite character on them
	- after swimming/baths stall him when it comes to putting on his
	diaper so he gets used to being without one.
	- be consistent, don't let him wear diapers at night ... once you
	start
	- What I did was announce that in 2 weeks he would not
	be wearing diapers anymore and would start using the potty (no
	discussion, just an announcement).  I would then remind him 
	every 2-3 days with a comment about how big he was getting and 
	they didn't make big enough diapers for him. Then I bought and 
	wrapped a number of small novelty type toys and put them in a 
	basket near the potty.  This was the day before.  I told him
	each time he remembered to go potty in the toilet he would get a
	present until all the presents were gone.  Then I put him in 
	underwear when he woke up the next morning.  And this worked rather 
	nicely.  There were about 2-3 accidents a week for the first few 
	weeks and then it went down to about once a month for the next 
	few months (mostly he was too interested in something to go
	potty) and then he never had another accident.  


Responses ....
======================================================================
     As for the toilet training, the only thing I can suggest is to show him a
friend his age who is toilet trained so he realizes he is old enough.  Other
than that, you're right; just waiting is the best thing.  Our family has
always said that it's not a good idea to rush kids on anything unless
absolutely necessary; everyone has their own pace.
======================================================================
Since he knows when it is time and it is summer now, maybe you could try
not using diapers?  Mine hated wet pants.  And I hated the laundry :(
======================================================================
Every child is different, but here is what worked for my son on both of these
situations.  (By the way, the fact that these are occuring together may 
indicate that he is feeling a little uneasy about growing up (i.e. he wants
to regress to a time when he felt more comfortable.)  My son shows these 
feelings in many ways ... sometimes he acts like a 1yr old (he wants to be fed)
and sometimes like a 10yr old (he wants us to play chess with him!).

#2
As far as the potty training.  My son loves stickers, so I would draw a 
picture for him (usually a racetrack or a country scene) and then he could
place stickers on the picture for a successful attempt.  Make success small
at first (i.e. telling you he is going to go in his diaper will get a sticker
for the first week) and add on from there (1/2 hour dry, 1 hour dry).  But to
be honest, I do not think anything I did made my son potty train.  He did it
all by himself because he wanted to.  Everyone wants to eventually.  
======================================================================
Our pediatrician is a real big advocate for letting a child potty train when
he is ready.  Our son stays dry during the day and at night, but refuses to 
poop in the potty.  He always asks for a diaper when he needs to poop.  I 
talked to our pediatrician again about it last week.  He gave me a really 
good article to read and said "This is not an issue of maturity - this is an
issue of control.  When he is ready, he will poop in the potty".  But the 
article recommended that you try a reward (bribe) system and sticker chart - 
even if they just try.  We had been doing this already.  At first it works
great, but loses its appeal after awhile.  But we got a basket and I bought
all kinds of little things - match box cars, magic marker pens, paint brush,
gloves, etc.  I just went to the local discount store and found things (each
thing under $2.00) that I thought would appeal to Thomas.  When he would 
try to go poop on the potty, we would let him pick something out of the 
basket.  We backed off and now he has to go in order to pick something.
He went a couple of times, but has reverted back.  I think the pressure 
was just too much - we started seeing an increase in tantrums (which he
hasn't done for months) and other negative behaviors.  So now when he 
asks for a diaper, we suggest using the potty, but if he says he wants
to use a diaper, we put a diaper on him, let him go, and clean him up without 
comment.  Then he's on his way again.  You could try this kind of reward 
system - but don't push.  It just isn't worth it.  Talk to your pediatrician
though to get his/her opinion.  You could also try different kinds of 
potties.  Our son has never wanted to sit down to go.  At the daycare they
give them a choice - standing or sitting.  My husband built him a little
stool to stand on and we put the little potty away.  Solved that problem!

I wish you all the best.  Like you I will be very glad when he is all the 
way trained.  But, we have found that pushing just doesn't work.  I
hope you can figure out something that works!

======================================================================

Toilet training -- it seems you have a stubborn kid, and from my experience,
forcing the issue is probably not helpful.  One thought that I did have,
that is totally untested, is to find a friend of his that has toilet
trained, and find out when that friend toilet trained.  Then, when your
son reached that age, make a big thing about how he has finally gotten
old enough to toilet train -- here are his underpants.  All in all,
though, I think it may be best for you to wait a bit.  My personal
experience is that toilet training my (stubborn) son was an experience
straight from hell ... (gee, how encouraging I am!)
======================================================================
Sigh!  Monica is really not very motivated either.  I cant offer any real 
help, except to say that they have to decide for themselves to use the 
toilet.  We had Monica is pants for 6 months, will little success 
(and we tried all the things you are not supposed to do, like 
rewarding with stickers or treats, etc), then went back to diapers 
after our son was born (for our sakes--its easier to change a poopy 
diaper than a poopy pair of training pants).  After about 3 months of 
that (with me telling her she could  wear pants if she wanted to 
use the potty), she finally decided she wanted to try pants 
again.  So far, so mediocre--she is doing better than before, 
but really doesnt seem to like the potty.  I am just trying 
to keep it lo-pressure, but I *do* keep reminding her that 
if she doesnt try, she has to go back to diapers.
======================================================================

Well, I don't know about "wisdom".  My son who is now 3.5 was not interested in
toilet training until he was just 3.  (he too appeared to be physically ready) 
And then, pooof, one toilet trained kid.  Isaac is independant and stubborn. 
Him and the woman who was taking  care of him got into a real battle of wills
over the potty.  This battle did nothing to help.  We ended up putting Isaac
into another daycare.  Isaac ended up (I am condensing this) trying not to pee
or poo for several days, and I have since heard from my doctor that Isaac is
not the  only child to do that, and that for some kids who are particularly
successful, the parents end up having to take the child to the hospital as a
result.  After discovering that he couldn't just "will" away his body'd need to
pee and poo he continued on with a diaper for a couple of months.  One day he
told me that he did not want to wear a diaper any more and that was that (and I
do not know what made him decide that).  It is the end of a tiring day and I
know that I am rambling along.  I remember worrying over Isaac and the way he
wanted to "control" his body.  All is fime now.  If I ever have another another
child I would not worry about toilet training at all  (i think!).
======================================================================

If he likes a certain character (tv/book/movie), try to find underpants with
them and offer them to him.  Bribes of treats (we used raisins) every time he
does go.  After swimming/bath, stall him when it comes to putting his diaper
back on, to get him used to being without one.  Once you let the water out of
the bath, let him continue to play (with stick-on-the-wall blocks or soap 
crayons) also.

Good luck
(They told me: Don't worry! She won't walk down the aisle in a diaper.)
======================================================================
Since I potty trained an uninterested 3 year old boy I thought I'd pass
the technique along: bribes.  This was recommended by my daycare person
(mother of 3 teenage boys).

What I did was announce in late December that in 2 weeks he would not
be wearing diapers anymore and would start using the potty (no
discussion, just an announcement).  I would then remind him every 2-3
days with a comment about how big he was getting and they didn't make
big enough diapers for him (which was the truth, he was in X-Large).

Then I bought and wrapped a number of small novelty type toys and put
them in a basket near the potty.  This was the day before.  I told him
each time he remembered to go potty in the toilet he would get a
present until all the presents were gone.  Then I put him in underwear
when he woke up the next morning.

And this worked rather nicely.  There were about 2-3 accidents a week
for the first few weeks and then it went down to about once a month for
the next few months (mostly he was too interested in something to go
potty) and then he never had another accident.  He's now 5.5 years old.

What didn't work well:
  1) For some reason he really, really didn't want to go poop in the
potty.  These were some of the first accidents.  So I upped the bribe
to a teenage mutant ninja turtle if he did a poop.  That did it and
once he did it disappeared as a problem.

  2) He really liked being bribed! :-)  Even after he would use the potty
consistently he still wanted the presents.  But, he often forgot to ask
for the presents, so I didn't need quite so many.  And, I had about 6
superballs in there for presents.  I started picking the superballs up
again and just putting them back in the basket.  It took about 2 months
but pretty soon he was uninterested in just getting superballs.

One of the hard parts was to not get upset during the accidents, just
clean him up and put on new clothes and remind him that using the potty
gets rewards.  But I was rather pleased with myself for never getting
upset even when he had an accident in the middle of a toy store and I
didn't have a change of clothing!  (I went next door to Sears, bought
him some new underwear and some sweatpants, changed him in the bathroom
and on we went).  Oh, a hint:  *always* carry a change of clothing during
the training time!  And always, always make a big fuss of the successes.
This probably had a lot to do with it as well as the bribes, but I don't
think it would have worked on its own.

Good luck!

(P.S.  I've only had to out and out bribe him for two things: toilet
training and getting shots at the doctors.  I've been pleased with the
results of both!)
======================================================================

Since I didn't get Jeremy potty trained until he was 3 1/2, I'm probablty
not an expert on the subject, but here goes.

I believe children do things when they're ready to and when they see a
need to do so.  

Now it sounds like your kid is ready, but doesn't see a need.  So you 
need to create the need.  I purchased a ninja turtle "big boy" under-
wear for Jeremy and told him he could wear them when he no longer needed
diapers.  Worked like a charm.

Word of advice....my biggest failing during potty training was to let 
him wear a diaper at night.  My sitter finally convinced me that 
consistency was the key.  As soon as we took him completely off 
diapers and purchased the ninja turtles, he was completely potty 
trained in a week.

We also this chant we used "daddy uses the big potty, grandpa uses
the big potty" etc., etc., the people all being those he admired 
most.
======================================================================

I have a 3 1/2 year old son who is only just now potty trained, in fact,
we are still working on the finer points.  I never thought I would be
a parent who would be impatient about potty traing.  Just when I thought
I couldn't clean up another poopy big-enough-to-use-the-potty bottum, I
had an inspiration.

This is how it came about.  For quite awhile, Soren has been very good
about peeing in the potty or the toilet.  But he'd wear a diaper at
night, because he always was wet in the morning, and I thought you were
supposed to wait until they could stay dry by themselves before you sent
them to bed in plain underwear.  (Soren treated Pullups just like
diapers).  Since he knew he wasn't supposed to poop in his pants, he'd
wait until he had his diaper on for the night.  Invariable, 20 minutes
after he was in bed for the night, he'd poop.  It was driving me crazy.
I tried having him sit on the potty for up to an hour before bed, and
nothing.  When he told me he wanted to poop in his diaper, I told him he
was going to wear underpants to bed.

Occasionally he wakes up and forgets he's not wearing a diaper, but not
often.  Next week I'm going to cut my diaper delivery in half.  I guess
he could have stayed dry all night months ago.  He still poops in his
pants (I told him it would make him feel bad if he kept it in his body
too long), then goes into the bathroom dumps it in the potty and cleans
himself up.  He gets quite huffy if I offer to help. 

Things could be worse.
======================================================================

Problem 2 - potty training at 3yo. my older child
(now 6 yo) was also very late in starting. he was
almost 4 before he was fully trained. like your child
he was simply uninterested. we never pushed it. finally
when he was 2 months shy of being 4 yo i got fed up.
(he was in underwear except for bowel movements...truly
gross). i asked him Why oh why did he not go in the
potty..he said "mom, it's easier to wear a diaper...
no wiping, i can watch tv too". so, we made a deal..
1. i got ninja turtle underwear for him AND his best
   buddy at daycare. they promptly wore them all during
   the day at school
2. i got him a "potty toy" . it was a batman gun that
   displayed slides from batman on the wall. he could
   only use this on the toilet!!! he loved it.

it was just enough to outweigh the hesitation about
wiping (BTW it took him about a year to feel competent
enough about wiping to do it himself) and the convience
of watching TV.

good luck...don't worry tho' i know LOTS of kids (mainly
boys) who are over 3 and not trained...don't let anyone
tell you differently!!!!

======================================================================
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