From: jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re: The Crucifixion Prophecy??
Date: 23 Dec 1992 15:22:29 GMT
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In article <1h9ap1INN38n@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> hartley@maths.uwa.oz.au (Mike Hartley) writes:
>I'm curious, and not very familiar with the details of the prophecies
>concerned:
>The Christians all say that Jesus Christ is coming back again, and at _that_
>time, there will be peace on earth - the everlasting kingdom of God. The
>Jews expect that the Messiah should begin to rule with an iron sceptre
>the first time round.
>But are the prophecies concerned _inconsistent_ with the Christian idea
>of two comings? Please answer...

This looks like a legitimate question (as opposed to a rhetorical
one) so I'd like to respond from my perspective, which happens to
be that of Jew committed the scientific study of religion.

One essential problem that lies between Christians and Jews on so many
of these topics is that for Christianity, the topic of "messiah" (or
"christ" in Greek translation) is central to the religion, whereas for
most Jews today, most Jews of the medieval period, most Jews of the
Hellenistic and Roman period, and most Jews of the Biblical period,
"messiah" is (was) a peripheral issue.

As a Jew growing up in the Jewish religion in America, I was naturally
curious about what Jewish sources have to say about the issue of
messiah. The sources about "messiah" in the Biblical materials are
difficult to understand and confused. For those students who accept the
scientific approach to sources, the conclusion is inevitable that the
authors of the Hebrew Biblical texts held conflicting, sometimes
amorphous views about who the messiah was and what s/he would do. Most
Biblical authors seem to know little or nothing about the messiah. Even
for those who do, it is fairly clear that the messiah was of little
importance compared to many other issues.

Obviously things changed in the Hellenistic and Roman period as some
Jewish factions began to become deeply concerned with the doctrine of
messiah, and obviously one or more of these factions aided in the
creation of a new faith, Christianity. But even during this period, the
bulk of preserved sources demonstrate that for most Jews, questions of
"messiah" are peripheral.

In very difficult and painful times, the issue might come more to the
foreground. Even so, the recorded material can be wonderfully blunt.
For example, when Rabbi Aqiba was reported to have proclaimed that
Simon Ben Kosba was the messiah, Shimon b. Yochai supposedly retorted,
"Aqiba, grass will grow in your cheeks and you still will not have seen
the messiah." (Ca. 132 CE, and my recollection is that the retorter was
b. Yochai, but I haven't looked it up recently, so I might be wrong in
the attribution.)

My Christian friends have often queried me with genuine curiosity about
what I believe about the messiah, and with respect I am always
compelled to say that for me, the issue just isn't very important. I
think the same can be said of huge portions of Jews throughout
history.

I hope that the above will be received in the spirit intended, as
a positive contribution to dialog. It is meant to be conversational,
not scholarly, although I expect that some will subject it to 
a the higher level of scrutiny.
-- 
________________________________________
Jack F. Love	| 	Opinions expressed are mine alone.
		|	(Unless you happen to agree.)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic