From: jeb3@meaddata.com (Jennifer Bing)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Who cares what whites think about racism ?
Date: 7 Jan 1993 19:46:02 GMT
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sphinx.meaddata.com

In article <s018VB1w163w@peewee>, peewee@infoserv.com (Philip Stromer) writes:
|> 	>In article <1h83s2INN91l@meaddata.meaddata.com>, 
|> 	>jeb3@meaddata.com (Jennifer Bing) writes:
|> 
|> 	>It is obvious in this newsgroup that whites don't care what 
|> 	>blacks think about racism anyway. 
|> 	
|> Look in the mirror, Jennifer.  You just made a RACIST statement.  You        
|> have just lumped "whites" into one category.  

I didn't lump all whites together, just the ones who have been responding in
this newsgroup to racism. The statement should have read, "It is obvious by
the responses of the whites in this newsgroup on racism, that they do not
care what blacks think about racism". Forgive me for not being clearer.


|> 	
|> 	>What I keep hearing is there is no real racism anymore.  
|> 	
|> Sure there's racism.  Everyone has SOME racism in his/her heart, 
 
What is racism? Websters says, "The notion that one's own ethnic stock is
superior". That's not what is in my heart.

|> 
|> 	>Philip you need to reread his statement.  He can say "AfAms know 
|> 	>perfectly well what the condition of race relations are".  We all 
|> 	>know what they are.  
|> 	
|> You seem to be implying that blacks have some sort of "super knowledge"        
|> of race relations that whites don't have.  If this is what you mean, I
|> again point this out as a racist statement.

First of all I was defending Dowdy's right to say that AfAms know how they
are being treated by whites. I didn't imply anything about whites.

However, whites are in power in this country and in order for whites to keep
that power they must exert control over anyone who can take that power from
them. Now it is very unlikely that whites are going to be sympathetic to the
recipients in which they have imposed racist ideologies and practices on, in
order to keep their power. That would defeat the purpose in which they were
institiuted. That's why the  subject of this article is "who cares what
whites think about racism". That's equivalent to asking slave owners who are
making a profit to voice their opinion on the cruelty of slavery. 

|> Yeah, and by doing so, he implicitly implied that I, as a white man,
|> do NOT know.  That's a bunch of hooey.

Some whites know but are not willing to admit to their part in the race
relations between blacks and whites. Some whites know second-hand from media
and other means because they themselves have never come in contact with
blacks directly. And some (KKK) know and admit they think they are
superior.

|> 
|> 	>How many blacks do you know that have shared their trials with 
|> 	>you?
|> 
|> Let's see, there's my wife Dianne, her four brothers and sisters, their
|> husbands and wives, her 30 or so relatives that I spent weeks with in
|> 1989 when her mother died.  I've got about 10 other black friends that
|> I play sports with and have known for over 15 years.  Surely you're
|> not going to tell me that these people have NOTHING they can share
|> with me, that I'm capable, as a white man, of learning about.
|>

Second-hand knowledge. Bobby Dennison said it best in a movie (I can't
remeber the name right now) with James Earl Jones. After painting his body 
black and living as a black in order to get a scholarship, James Earl Jones
said to Bobby at the end of the movie, "It looks like you learned more than 
you bargained for".  Bobby replied, "Yeah , but I can change back when I want 
to". The point I'm making is you can talk to blacks until you are blue in
the face and even change your skin to look like a black and you are still not
going to know what it is really like to be black. You will always be viewing
things from the perspective of "I can always go back to being white when I
get tired of it". I'm sorry Phil there are just somethings you will never
fully understand. Another is what it feels like to have a baby, or have
menstrual cramps.

|> 	>You don't have any earthly idea what it is like to be black in 
|> 	>this country.  
|> 	
|> Living with a black wife and being the father of a mulatto boy gives me
|> at least SOME clue.  I get drifts of racism here and there, and not
|> only from whites, but surprise, surprise, from blacks too.  About 80%
|> of the people we meet are cool (all colors), and 20% are total bigots.

Your perspective is from a white man having a black child, not from what it
is like to be black. Now there is something I won't ever really understand.
I'll never know what a white man feels when he sees his black child endure
racism.

|> 
|> 	>Well until you are born black and live in this country as a 
|> 	>black you will never understand what racism does to blacks. 
|> 
|> So you're saying that every white person should not even TRY to under-
|> stand the problem, since none of us are ever going to be re-born.  I'm
|> sorry you have such a pessimistic view, but you sure don't speak for
|> Dianne and her family.  They'll call you a "whiner", a "crybaby" and
|> every other name you've seen me bandy about in this newsgroup.  BTW,
|> they're all very dark-skinned.  Not light-skinned Iman lookalikes.

Again I reiterate the subject of this article is "Who cares what Whites
think about Racism". I don't care that you think I am a whiner. That's the
whole problem. Whites are constantly trying to minimize the effects of
racism. If you want to try and understand the plight of AfAms then listen
and change your actions. Don't try and justify racist actions, talk about 
reverse discrimination or blame the victim for how the oppressor treats 
him/her and then call them whiners. When you call those  who are oppressed 
by racism, whiners, it is clear you don't understand what it is like to endure
racism as a black person in this country. Yes you should try and
understand the problem TO THE BEST OF YOUR ABILITY and then make the
necessary changes in yourself. That is the only thing that is going to
change the race conditions in this country. And that goes for blacks as well
as whites, changing themselves. By the way I do believe blacks can be
racist, however the racism they practice doesn't do whites any harm since
whites are the ones in power.


OH, what does the shade of darkness of your families skin have to do with
anything. I didn't get it.

|> 
|> 	>If I or Dowdy Jackson, or any other person could wave a magic 
|> 	>wand an cause everyone in the world to be non-racist I think 
|> 	>they would if they were on the receiving end of racism. 
|> 	
|> Sure, and if I could wave this magic wand, I'd wish for a million $$$.        
|> But that's looking through rose-colored glasses.  All I asked for was
|> a CONSTRUCTIVE criticism to today's problem, and I'm still waiting.

Solution or criticism? Maybe I've missed something in your previous post. My
solution is written above.

|> 	
|> 	>I don't have any control over how you or anybody else views 
|> 	>blacks. 
|> 	
|> Nor do I have any control over how you view whites.  But what I *can*
|> do is search for some sort of middle ground.  A good way to start is
|> by stopping the stereotypes.

Cool.

|> 
|> 	>you want a suggestion.  Here's one.  Why don't all you racist 
|> 	>stop it.  It's not nice.
|> 
|> Speaking of not nice, calling me a racist is not nice.  You don't know
|> anything about me, yet you call me a racist.  I've done much community
|> work in East Palo Alto, rehabilitating drug addicts, taking time out
|> of my own life, asking nothing in return.  I'm glad I fall into your
|> category of "racists", because I was born with white skin, I'll die
|> with white skin, and there's nothing I can do about it.  I refuse to
|> feel "ashamed" of it.  I'm not responsible for slavery of 150 years
|> ago.  Also, I enjoyed "Gone With The Wind."  So there.

Please tell me where I called YOU a racist. I just made an appeal to all
racist to stop it. Now if the shoe fits wear it, if it doesn't then don't
worry about it, you are not in need of conversion.

|> 
|> If you want to talk about racism, you can start with Louis Farrakhan.        
|> He's buddy-buddy with KKK Grand Dragon Tom Metzger, yet I've seen
|> precious few blacks criticize him, just because he has black skin.
|> When blacks crawl into bed with the KKK, I'm at wit's end.  When        
|> blacks accept a black man as a leading spokesman when he embraces
|> a KKK Grand Dragon, I wonder if the battle against racism is even
|> WORTH fighting.

I can't start with Louis Farrakhan, because I don't know him. If you want to
know why or how (blacks crawl into bed with the KKK) you'll have to ask
those blacks. I evidently am not the black you are talking about because 
I haven't crawled in to bed with the KKK or anybody else but my husband.

|> 
|> 	>Please tell me that's [slavery] not your only criteria for 
|> 	>being a racist.
|> 
|> No, of course it isn't.  But you paint the "racist" tarbrush over any
|> white person you choose, without even bothering to find out anything
|> about him or her.  You're as bad as Dowdy.  Please tell me that you 
|> don't think you or anyone else is above having the ability to hold 
|> racist views.

 think I've already answered this. I haven't pinpointed you or any specific
 person as racist. And I do think we can all have racist views.

|> 
|> --Philip Stromer (peewee@infoserv.com)

-- 
|Jennifer Bing                              | If you do good,             |
|Mead Data Central                          | people will accuse you      |
|9555 Springboro Pike      jeb3@meaddata.com| of selfish ulterior motives,|
|Miamisburg, Oh 45342...!uunet!meaddata!jeb3| Do good anyway.             |

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