HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: isaac@etrog.se.citri.edu.au (Isaac Balbin)
Subject: Re: A personal experience in Poland
Organization: Collaborative Information Technology Research Institute
Date: 14 Oct 92 08:13:32 GMT

matthew@stats.mu.oz.au (Maciek Blasikiewicz) writes:


>>Are you going to hunt them down Blasikiewicz?

>Do you know their names, their SS unit identification, the location
>and date of the crime?

My father can take you to the grave, Damn it.
As a 10 year old boy, he had to remove their decayed bodies
with his mother and re-bury them.

>>Tell us about your family. Where was it, what did it do during the
>>final solution.

>OK Balbin. My mother's parents both served as slave labour in Austria.
>My father's father fought in September 1939, avoided capture, and
>then lived in a small village with my grandmother, under the German
>occupation.

Good. I am glad you are not the son of murderers.
I am the son of a survivor who witnessed POLISH attrocities
and POLISH good.

Your statement that POLES did not take part in the final solution
is palpable rubbish. Wash your mouth out. My family is a living
witness to it.

By the way, the POLES who actually saved our family decided one sunny day
that they would report us to the Germans. My Grandfather, of blessed memory,
who was smart, replied that when the Germans would come, he would report
that the POLES has assisted his family, and if he got weak-kneed, he would
dies as well. The Pole decided to change his plans, and that is how
we survived.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: BIG NOSES
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 20:46:24 GMT

warren@itexjct.jct.ac.il (Warren Burstein) writes:

>c.f. the current parashah: "af chovev amim"

I thought it was that we were created in G-d's image, and one
of His thirteen attributes is "erekh apayim."

-Don Gertler
From: naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: BIG NOSES
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:48:21 +0200
Keywords: schnozzel
Organization: University of Cape Town

In article <Oct09.223603.40002@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, mk568652@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Mitchell Kotler) writes:
> I'm Jewish so don't get mad but why do so many of us have
> large noses?  Is this some ethnic trait?  I know it's not 
> all Jews , of course, but I wonder how this whole "nose"
> thing got started in the first place.
> 

What big noses. I always thaught that yoks have silly little piggy noses!

 
_______________________________________________________________________________
|                                                                             |
| Fluffy, the Quantum Kitty                                                   |
| c/o Colin Naturman             "`All right,' said the Cat; and this time it |
| naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za        vanished quite slowly, beginning with the  |
|                                  end of the tail and ending with the grin,  |
|                                  which remained some time after the rest of |
|                                  it had gone."                              |
|                                                                             |
|                          Lewis Carroll,  Alice's Adventures in Wonderland   |
|_____________________________________________________________________________|

Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:17621 alt.binaries.pictures.d:4823
From: friedenb@sapphire.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.binaries.pictures.d
Subject: Jewish GIF available
Date: 14 Oct 92 12:25:57 GMT
Reply-To: friedenb@sapphire.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University



The next part of a series of Jewish oriented .gif files is now
available via FTP. 

kotel1.gif - A picture of the cover of Israel Scene magazine.  The
picture is a kotel from a breath-taking angle and a photo of
Teddy Kollek (Mayor of Jerusalem) super-imposed in the corner.

This is NOT the truncated picture which WAS available at this site.

Additional files will be available on a regular basis.  
Announcements of these uploads will be posted to this group.

Site name:	israel.nysernet.org
Directory:	/israel/graphics

Read the 00-index.txt file for a brief description of each of the .gif
files in this directory.

.gif files will _NOT_ be available by mail.  Please do not send mail requests
to me _OR_ the administrators of the FTP site.  Thank you.

Anyone who does not know how to view these .gif files, read the FAQ sheet
in alt.binaries.pictures.d which is posted on the 1st and 15th of each month 
(or there-about).  It will help you to get started.


Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
-=-Michigan State University
From: grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: COBOL (was Re: Intermarriage)
Date: 13 Oct 92 23:44:27 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
In-reply-to: baker@ROBOCOP.NYU.EDU's message of 12 Oct 92 21:29:39 GMT

In article <9210122129.AA00645@robocop.NYU.EDU>, Jonathan Baker writes:

> Andrew Solovay writes:

>> The Torah clearly forbids writing in COBOL.

> Where does it say that?  What proof can you bring?  Where do we learn over
> that COBOL is assur?

Mishnah Fortran 2:5:

Computer programming is work, and must be done without any waste.  Thus
it is permissible to program in efficient languages, but not in COBOL.
Rav Watson says: Assembly language is the most efficient language, and
is thus the only proper language.  But the Sages say: It is not
efficient to program if there are too many errors.  If one can program
in assembler, he should, but it is permissible to program in Lisp or C.
For him, this is not wasteful.

Would anyone like to add some Gemara?

--
David Grabiner, grabiner@zariski.harvard.edu
"We are sorry, but the number you have dialed is imaginary."
"Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again."
Disclaimer: I speak for no one and no one speaks for me.
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: * jesus not a christ *
Date: 9 Oct 92 19:03:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnews.1992Oct9.190329.16181
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio

In article <4265@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>
>>These news must upset the Lubavicher  Hassidim, or do the believe that
>>the Rebbe, even  living till he is  120 years old, is  going to repeat
>>the trick of Avraham Avinu?
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Avraham Avinu made no tricks.
>He got his son in the same way most of the married fathers get their
>sons.

And if Isaac was 40 when Sarah died, and Abraham later remarried and
had sons, he was really quite old then.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: sexism
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 20:49:13 GMT

rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:
>bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu (Dov Bai-MSI Visitor) writes:
>>lmk2@garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:

>>>Why is it always predominantly men who invoke the argument of
>>>the word of G-d and the argument that they see nothing unfair
>>>to women in Orthodox tradition?

>> How does the gender of the person making an argument affects the argument
>> itself ?  If the majority of persons claiming that women are degraded
>> in Orthodox tradition happen to be women, should that discredit the
>> claim itself ?

>It doesn't affect the argument per se, but if there's significant
>correlation between gender and which side of the argument one takes
>there certainly are grounds for at least trying to determine why that
>difference exists.

Okay.  I can accept Robert's point.  Now we have to go back to the
original poster above.  Let's have the statistical evidence that it
is "always predominantly men who invoke the argument of the word of
G-d and the argument that they see nothing unfair to women in Orthodox
tradition."

Any respected sociological study would be accepted.  Thanks.

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: Attending a More Traditional Service
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 13:08:40 GMT

In article <KHB.92Oct8205805@chiba.Eng.Sun.COM> khb@chiba.Eng.Sun.COM (chiba) writes:

>The most unfortuante thing (IMHO) about services choirs is that it
>*often* (but certainly not always) has the effect of turning many of
>the congregants into listeners rather than participants. When this
>happens (in its most severe form) those accustomed to more traditional
>services can feel quite uncomfortable.

I'm always uncomfortable with choirs because of the sense that the
chazzan may be getting more concerned about the harmony, musicality, etc,
at the expense of kavannah (concentration on praying).  And this holds
true even when I _know_ that the chazzan's kavannah is unquestionable.
Somehow, knowing that the davening is practiced and rehearsed turns me off.


>
>The endless O-R-C-Recon debates sometimes blind us to the diversity
>within "O" alone. Perhaps it is not the debate itself, but the
>concentration of Americans ... outside of NY and LA, it is very hard
>to find much diversity here. Spend a year or more in Jerusalem and
>visit a different synagogue every week (and more than one for each
>holiday). You won't run out ;>

My biggest disappointment (in fact, my _only_ disappointment ever) in
visiting Israel was the Great Synagogue on Shabbat.  Choir and tourists.
Felt "treif" to me. :-)




-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
From: kolassa@bio1.bst.rochester.edu (John Kolassa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Tax support of religion in Germany; was Re: PLEASE! I need your help...
Date: 9 Oct 92 02:29:24 GMT
Reply-To: kolassa@bio1.bst.rochester.edu (John Kolassa)
Organization: University of Rochester, Rochester NY

In article <1992Oct8.235259.3132@dscomsf.desy.de>, poser@vxdsyc.desy.de (Till Poser  -  ZEUS OFFLINE) writes:
> |>             
> |>Actually, I think that the trend in Germany has been in the opposite 
> |>direction;
> |>it's not that these groups approached the German government to ask for taxing
> |>powers, but a broadening of the general tax-supported churches common to the
> |>pre-unification German states to include all large religious bodies.  Similar
> |>arrangements are in place in other European countries.
> 
> Sorry, but this is not quite right. The collection of the religious tax is 
> the result of the socalled "Reichskonkordat", which was sealed in July 1933.
> The "Reichskonkordat", the (loosely translated) cordeal accord between 
> churches an the state, was an attempt of Hitler's government to get both 
> the Roman Catholic and the Protestan churches in line ("Gleichschaltung")
> with the government, quite successfully, but with notable holdouts and 
> exceptions. The "tithing" by taxation started soon thereafter (1934?).
> 
> I surmise that that after the war this particular issue wasn't really in
> contention. I assume that legislature was expanded to include Judaism.
> 
> As far as I know, Germany is the only place in Europe, if not the world,
> where such a "tithing" by government takes place.
> 
> |>Thanks, John Kolassa, kolassa@bio1.bst.rochester.edu
> 
>        Till Poser     

This policy, I still maintain, is an extension of pre-unification policies
of established churches of various denominations in the various independent
German states.  While to the best of my knowledge Germany is the only European
state still collecting such tithes, other European countries, ex. Belgium,
have a practice of state support for various denomonations, and the practice
of government-mandated tithes was present at least in Britain and Ireland
in the last century.

I don't know whether similar state supports for religion were present in Weimar
days, but in any event its reinstatement would have been a continuation of
Church-State relations common in German history in particular and European
history in general, and inclusion of non-Christian groups in Germany and
Belgium represents a liberalization.
-- 
Thanks, John Kolassa, kolassa@bio1.bst.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: silverm@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Jeff Silverman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: facing jerusalem
Date: 13 Oct 92 05:20:13 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle

aaronm@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (aaron meyerowitz) writes:

>Hi,
>   During my recent days of introspection my mind wandered to the
>following question: How picky are various congregations about "facing
>Jerusalem"? In my shul I notice that when we open the ark and "rise
>to face Jerusalem" most people actually face the ark, as if our
>collective thoughts and prayers were channeled through it! During the
>year this still leaves everyone facing mainly eastward but during big
>services with people seated to the sides this leaves people facing in
>a variety of directions as the place is fairly large. So what happens
>in YOUR shul? If you hop around alot do you see a difference? If
>everyone DOES face in the same direction is it a semicalculated
>straight shot to the temple mount or just due east (or as east as the
>most nearly east of the walls of the room)?
>Shana Tova,
>Aaron Meyerowitz

In our new synagogue, the congregation sits facing at 45 deg East of true
north.  We hired a professor of geography from the U of Washington, and he
told us that Jerusalem is actually 17 deg east of north, using a minimum
distance rule (I measured with a globe and a peice of string yep, he's right).
On a flat map, the string measures a line of constant bearing, about 50
degrees east from north.  The old building faced precisely east.  So we
decided 45 degrees was acceptable.

Does it REALLY make a difference?

Jeff Silverman
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: PLEASE! I need your help! Help me keep this love alive!
Date: 3 Oct 92 20:43:10 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In <1992Oct3.154349.24614@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:

>I believe the only time that a child can violate the 5th commandment
>is if the parents expect the child to violate the Sabbath.

Actually any violation of the Torah that the parents request is not to
be done.

>The obligation to God is clear; Jews do NOT marry non-Jews, period.

Jews *should not* marry non-Jews.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       New signature will appear "acharai hachagim"
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org 			Jerusalem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: Intermarriage
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 16:50:16 GMT

weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>While this is true, there used to be a long history of a pecking order
>among American immigrant Jews and their children.  It had Yeckies (aka
>Germans) at the top, and Litvaks somewhere near the bottom, but I never
>did learn the particulars.  Marrying down the pecking order was treated
>as a catastrophe in many families.

In the case of Hungarians, marrying in any direction was catastrophic. :-)

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: The Holocaust (was Please! I need your help etc.)
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:38:35 GMT

In <1992Oct15.132035.12855@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:

> If not, why live?

Is this a productive question?
-- 
/|/-\/-\       New signature will appear "acharai hachagim"
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org 			Jerusalem
From: sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: A personal experience in Poland
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:25:56 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <9210141442.AA25550@atc.boeing.com>, silverman@ilvc.boeing.com (Jeff Silverman @ Flight Test Instrumentation Lab) writes:
> I suspect that the reason we castigate the Poles is that we compare their 
> response with that of the Danes.
> 
> The majority of the Death Camps were built in Poland, and the Poles, if they 
> didn't actively assist the Nazis, at least they didn't resist as much as the 
> Danes did.  The Danes, on the other hand, actively resisted the Nazis.  So did 
> the Dutch.  Anne Frank, for example, was hidden in Holland.
> 

We have been through the Polish-Danish comparison and in balance
I agree with some  of the Polish posters, its an unfair comparison.
The situations were different, the Danes didn't suffer the
retributions the Poles did, Danes were ethnically closer to
the Germans, not as strategically important (not being between
Hitler and his next target Stalin as Poland was), etc.

As to the Dutch, there were some heroic stories from the Netherlands,
like the Dutch dockworkers who paid with their lives.  There were
also Dutch Nazis who hunted down Jews, and recall that Ann Frank's
family were turned in by a Dutch neighbor.  Other than ethnic
Germans and Ukrainians who lived in Polish territory, I don't think
the ethnic Poles had a pro-Nazi faction.  There were anti-semitic
factions of the resistance who killed some Jews.  The Nazis intended
to clear out Poland to resettle German settlers in, his infamous
Lebensraum principle, recall 3 million Polish non-Jews died
in the war too.  Not as high a percentage as the Jewish
casualties, but probably a pre-cursor to a further genocide
and forced resettlement against them too.

As to whether or not the Poles resisted, be prepared for
lots of flames on that.  Whatever ill we might think of
the Poles, they fought continually against Germany, whether
as a nation or as underground fighters.  Do you remember
who led the assualt on Monte Cassino in Italy?

		Seth Rosenthal

Disclaimer: All opinions are my own not my employers'.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: The Holocaust (was Please! I need your help etc.)
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:36:29 GMT

In <1992Oct15.131411.10933@umbc3.umbc.edu> shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:

>My Yom Kippur prayers -- as well as Tisha B'Av kinot, and Seder
>ritual -- have always included references to the 6,000,000 Jews
>murdered in the Holocaust.  And I cannot imagine a Jew whose
>prayers and thoughts have not been changed by the Holocaust.

The only mention of the Holocaust on Yom Kippur in Machzor Rinat
Yisrael is in Yizkor (likewise on other occasions that Yizkor is
said).  And many shuls do insert a kinah on Tisha B'av.  Other than
that, I can't really say that our prayers have changed.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       New signature will appear "acharai hachagim"
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org 			Jerusalem
From: warren@itexjct.jct.ac.il (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Attending a More Traditional Service
Date: 10 Oct 92 17:02:03 GMT
Organization: ITEX, Jerusalem, Israel

bs = sutin@helios.ucsc.edu (Brian Sutin)
es = shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)

es: Laura, I think that the use of the term "treif" was unfortunate.

bs: Why?  Since a religious service of any kind is not listed in the Torah as
bs: one of the foods kosher to eat, it is clearly treif.

I guess someone is going to have to eat his words ...
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire world		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very bitter carrot.
 |warren@      But the principal
/ nysernet.org is not hungry at all.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Recent Nobel Prizes
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 16:37:08 GMT

Anyone know if there are any Jewish folks among the recent Nobel
prize winners?

Thanks, Danny.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: leel@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Lee Lawrence)
Subject: Re: Hebrew script on the Net [was Re: Hebrew origin of some English words]
Keywords: Hebrew script, Net
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 21:30:45 GMT

>>4. auspice: ( AUSHPEZIN )
>>       _  _ ___  __  _ _ _  _ \ |
>>        | |  |  |_.| | | | .| |\|
>>        |    |  ___| |/_/   | | \
>>        |

>Hello
>
>Is there an Hebrew editor/mailer/news reader in use on some site on the Net ??
>
>alex khalil alex@dt.uh.edu
>U. of Houston-Downtown

The text above by Boaz was probably generated by my program "Hebtype"
which I released version 1.0 over a year ago.

I have a second version which also supports other "text fonts" and
does gematria calculations and supports different key mappings
but I have just been sitting on it...

I have should clean it up and add some more features soon. 
(after this holiday season when I get some free time)

If you have any additional ideas for features you'd like to
suggest, let me know.

Thanks,
Lev Lawrence
___  _ _ |_   _  |_
\_| _|  | /   _|_ /
leel@cs.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: d_ellis@ricks.enet.dec.com (David Ellis  12-Oct-1992 1034)
Subject: Re: Questions About a Hebrew Letter
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 07:36:56 PDT
X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA11168; Mon, 12 Oct 92 07:36:57 -0700
X-Received: by enet-gw.pa.dec.com; id AA06964; Mon, 12 Oct 92 07:36:56 -0700
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X-To: soc.culture.jewish.usenet
X-Apparently-To: soc.culture.jewish.usenet

David Fiedler (david@infopro.com) asks:

> 1. What is the name of the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet?
> 2. How is this letter pronounced?
> 3. Was it always pronounced this way? 
> 4. If not, when was it changed and why?

The last letter is Taf, which in Israel today is pronounced "t" as in "tee".

There are two forms of this letter:  with or without a "dagesh" (dot) inside.
The form with the dagesh is and has always been pronounced "t".  The form 
without the dagesh (which I'll call "soft" Tav) has had differing 
pronunciations over time and local custom.

In Israel today, soft Tav is pronounced "t".  This is Sephardic custom, which 
originated in Spain and Arab countries.  Ashkenazi custom, coming from Germany 
and Eastern Europe, pronounces soft Tav "s" as in "say".  There is one more 
variant, Yemenite custom, which pronounces soft Tav "th" as in "thin".

To the best of my knowledge, in Biblical times, soft Tav was pronounced "th"
as in current Yemenite custom.  Hence the "th" in transliterated words like 
"Sabbath".

I do not know _when_ the pronunciation changed, but I believe it happened
over a long period of time and definitely not for a deliberate reason.

----
David  J  Ellis
Digital Equipment Corporation, Semiconductor Engineering Group 
Mailstop HLO2-3/D11 
77 Reed Road, Hudson MA 01749  
(508) 568-4393 
Internet: d_ellis@ricks.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Citecheck Hell)
Subject: Re: Farrakhan, Malcom X and Jews
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 20:41:58 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.192329.4316@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> friedenb@silver.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg) writes:
>Farrakhan's predecesor as the leader of the Nation of Islam was Malcom X.

I was under the impression that Farrakhan was aligned with the faction
of Nation of Islam that had Malcolm X killed.
-- 
ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu 
also at quibeaux@uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
ajax crypto-analyzer -- warning! remove all chicken bones first