HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Ric_Goldman_-C@hqops.3mail.3com.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: The truth(?) about Deep Space Nine and Babylon Five
Date: 7 Sep 92 03:39:00 GMT

I was chatting on with a friend of mine who freelances for various 
Hollywood 'zines including Starlog, and she had some interesting info on 
the whole DS9/B5 phenomenon.  I'm curious if anyone has heard anything 
similar or opposite to the following  (Disclaimer: this is all phone-
speak & I do not have independent verification):

1) ST:DS9 was Michael Piller's idea (or was it?  see below).  Gene 
   Roddenberry hated it, and it had been canned, but was resurrected 
   almost immediately after Gene died.

2) The TNG folk (lead by Richard Berman) accept DS9 as a step-child 
   because Paramount bought the idea and because it keeps Piller out of 
   their hair while he's working on his 'baby'.  Privately they expect 
   and will be glad when it dies, because its rejection will validate 
   Gene's vision of ST, even though it means they'll have to put up with 
   Piller back on TNG staff (allegedly Berman and Piller *dont* see eye-
   to-eye on 'wither ST').  Note: these are the artistic types talking - 
   not the studio financial types.

3) Here's the clincher.  DS9 MAY ACTUALLY BE A RIP-OFF OF B5!  
   Apparently the B5 folk had submitted the idea to Paramount a while 
   back, and the studio sat on it because they already had a winner in 
   TNG (sorta like when CBS told Gene, 'but we already HAVE a sci-fi 
   series', meaning Lost-In-Space, as the network's reason for not 
   wanting TOS).  Anyway, Warner Bros. eventually *did* buy the idea.  
   However, Piller used the B5 treatise as the basis for his DS9 
   proposal.

4) The industry folk think there will be an initial good reaction to DS9 
   when it first comes out in January, but the fireworks will come in 
   February when B5 debuts.  They (no, I don't know which they 'they' 
   are :-), expect B5 to blow DS9 right off the air, once it's shown up 
   as a pale version of the real thing.


Side note: to all the B5-not-on-ras*'ers - I think we may now have a 
reason to keep B5 discussions here; it would B5 may actually be a ST-
cousin (or vice versa).

Q sez the universe is sublime, gross, and not for the timid.  I suspect 
he's never been anywhere near Hollywood for comparison  (Of course 
IMHO).

Any comments?  Any questions?  Any answers?  Any one got a mint?

/**********************************************************************\
| Ric Goldman (not a stage name, | NoHo - Los Angeles' answer to SoHo. *
|   but thanx for asking!)       | So if the clown behind the desk at  *
| Spellbinder Systems Group      | the local Howard Johnson's screws   *
| North Hollyweird, CA, USA, etc | up, Is that a NoHo HoJo Bozo NoNo?  *
\**********************************************************************/
Xref: sparky rec.arts.startrek.misc:9074 rec.arts.startrek.info:341
From: jygabler@ucdavis.edu (Jason Gabler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc,rec.arts.startrek.info
Subject: Startrek PostScript files translated to GIF at...
Followup-To: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Date: 10 Sep 1992 00:37:44 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jygabler@ucdavis.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: xcf.berkeley.edu
Originator: griffith@xcf.Berkeley.EDU


After much labor, I have finally have been able to get those wonderful
postscript files of ST-TNG ships into GIF format.  THey are at
wuarchive.wustl.edu in /pub under the names:


enterprise-topview-1024x768.gif
romulan-warbird-1024x768.gif


please e-mail me if you have an interest in them, I can do the others in the
set as well.. which includes about 3 more view angles of the enterprise.


Vale,
		jase

+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  Jason Gabler - Information Technology - University of California, Davis   |
|    ccjason@hamlet.ucdavis.edu - hamlet!ccjason - jygabler@ucdavis.edu      |
|     "I have concluded that we must accomplish the impossible" - S.E.R      |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by Jim Griffith - the official scapegoat of rec.arts.startrek.info

E-mail submissions to trek-info@scam.berkeley.edu or ...!ucbvax!scam!trek-info
Xref: sparky rec.arts.startrek.misc:9273 rec.arts.startrek.current:13104
From: eisimps@cie.uoregon.edu (Eileen Simpson)
Subject: Re: Luxana Alert
Organization: University of Oregon Campus Information Exchange
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 08:43:17 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.093845.2251@wkuvx1.bitnet> barnejd@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:

>  Guys, take it to alt.luwaxana.troi.die.die.die.  _PLEASE!_ :)
>
>                                          -Drizzt

We can't.  It's dead.
8-}
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: jeffery@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (JEFFERY ERIC ROBERT)
Subject: Re: The truth(?) about Deep Space Nine and Babylon Five
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 21:05:00 GMT

>1) ST:DS9 was Michael Piller's idea (or was it?  see below).  Gene 
>   Roddenberry hated it, and it had been canned, but was resurrected 
>   almost immediately after Gene died.

This is not what I've heard.  At a convention in APRIL we were told by
Eric Stillwell that G.R. agreed with DS9 and permitted it, but had
nothing to do with it.  DS9 started writing and planning while G.R. was
alive.  I don't understand where you get your info. but I bet it is just
another rumor inconsistency.

>2) The TNG folk (lead by Richard Berman) accept DS9 as a step-child 
>   because Paramount bought the idea and because it keeps Piller out of 
>   their hair while he's working on his 'baby'.  Privately they expect 
>   and will be glad when it dies, because its rejection will validate 
>   Gene's vision of ST, even though it means they'll have to put up with 
>   Piller back on TNG staff (allegedly Berman and Piller *dont* see eye-
>   to-eye on 'wither ST').  Note: these are the artistic types talking - 
>   not the studio financial types.

No WAY, Paramount is a money grubbing highly particular company.  There is no
way they would authorize this kind of financial expenditure unless they
expected money to flow in.  They probably want TNG movies, but want to 
keep the T.V. audience o they accepted thiss idea.  

>   February when B5 debuts.  They (no, I don't know which they 'they' 
>   are :-), expect B5 to blow DS9 right off the air, once it's shown up 
>   as a pale version of the real thing.

Why do they have to compete?  We are all Sci-Fi fans and I for one want as
much  the industry is willing to give.  Stop the competition and embrace
the two. 
-- 
    Eric Jeffery (jeffery@ucsu.colorado.edu) StarBase Express (303)450-2454
From: davepat@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Dave Patterson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Borg Parts
Summary: Any ideas for Borg-like doodads?
Keywords: Borg, I, Bjorn, Blinky, Blinky,
           Halloween...
Date: 11 Sep 92 22:13:31 GMT

Hi gang!

Gotta question here:

As Halloween is coming up, I would like to dress up as my favourite Borg:
Bjorn.

I was wondering if anyone here might know of what kinds of electronic 
doodads were used to create some of the parts for the Borg.  I know that
simple rubber tubing was used, along with a few spare lights, and maybe
a wetsuit here and there, etc., but I'd be interested to know if anyone 
knows what parts went into some of the more intricate details of the 
costume, such as the little motors that spun, clicked, and whirred on the 
end of the Borg hands, face, and other miscellaneous body parts!

Help me build a Borg!

Thanks for any info in advance!

-Dave Patterson

= #include <disclaimer.h> ===============================================
| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||    |      "Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy!     |
| |||                        |||    |       Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy!     |
|     o l i v e t t i  a t c        |       Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy!     |
|                                   |          - Ren & Stimpy           |
================ {ucbvax, etc.}!hplabs!flash!davepat ====================
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: gmarfoe@eng.auburn.edu (Gerald George Marfoe)
Subject: Re: Startrek PostScript files translated to GIF
Summary: ftp address needed
Keywords: Original PostScript files, ftp site?
Reply-To: gmarfoe@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 06:56:47 GMT

Could some kind soul tell me where the ftp site (and directory) for the original
PostScript files are for the NCC-1701-D, the NCC-1701-C and the Romulan Warbird?
Any other drawings of starships that I should know about?

Thanks in advance :-)
---

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gerald G. Marfoe                    |"Mirabile visu. Mirabilia/Et itur ad astra
InterNet: gmarfoe@eng.auburn.edu    |... Suus cuique mos. Suum cuique.../
          ggmar@ducvax.auburn.edu   |Memento, terrigena./Memento, vita brevis."
          ggmar@hoshi.colorado.edu  |- "Afer Ventus", Enya, "Shepherd Moons"
From: 00rdharringt@bsu-ucs.uucp (Rob Harrington)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: Navy in Star Trek
Date: 14 Sep 92 12:24:13 GMT
Distribution: rec

In article <1992Sep11.191247.14861@vax5.cit.cornell.edu>, wwo@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (Thomas Schoene) writes:
> It is true that Starfleet draws heavily on naval tradition but it is clearly
> not a direct derivative of anyone's navy.  It is a seperate organization which
> performs some functions of a military force but also many functions not normally
> performed by the military.  As to the specific points you raise: one often
> hears about a "4 ship" flight of aircraft...  The term "ship" has ben used to
> describe space vessels (in fiction and serious discussion) for some time.  If
> you can think of a beteer term please suggest it.  (No flame just a comment.) 
> Second: Starfleet doesn't rule anything; teh Federation (which SF is
> subordinate to) does act as a ruling body for some portion of space but it
> seems reasonable that some or all members retain some sort of military force
> (perhaps the planetary defense forces mentioned in STIV:TVH and in TNG:BOBW2)
> 

it seems to me that the Federation most resembles the United Nations.  Where
the actual power comes from who wants to obey.  But there is no actual power.
The only power is the power that is given to it.  And therefore Starfleet
would be comparable to UN Security Forces.  Where nations (or planets) give
troops to serve.  Does that make any sense?

-- 
/---------------------------------------v-------------------------------------\
|  Rob Harrington                       |              Ball State University  |
|  Department of History                |               Muncie, Indiana, USA  |
|  Vax--00RDHARRINGT@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu  |       Unix--herring@bsu-cs.bsu.edu  |
>---------------------------------------^-------------------------------------<
|               Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah -- Shane MacGowan                |
|                       Aoibheann beatha an scol/aire!                        |
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: d_ellis@ricks.enet.dec.com (David Ellis  14-Sep-1992 1023)
Subject: Re: TNG guest star in _Unforgiven_
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 07:25:04 PDT
X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA01201; Mon, 14 Sep 92 10:16:36 -0700
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X-Apparently-To: rec.arts.startrek.misc.usenet

Wedge@cup.portal.com (Craig Teruo Matsumoto) writes:

>In Clint Eastwood's _Unforgiven_, the guy who plays the writer...
>isn't that the same actor who was the collector, who faked Data's death
>so he could steal him for his collection?
>Anybody know the name of the actor (and the TNG character he played)?

Yes.  Saul Rubinek, who played Kivas Fajo in "The Most Toys".

----
David  J  Ellis
Digital Equipment Corporation, Semiconductor Engineering Group 
Mailstop HLO2-3/D11 
77 Reed Road, Hudson MA 01749  
(508) 568-4393 
Internet: d_ellis@ricks.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: techy@iastate.edu (Troy A Rutter)
Subject: Spock: naked Time
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 23:48:32 GMT


When Spock was doing his "im in control of my emotions".. speech in 
The Naked Time, has it ever been said to what was he referrig to when
he exclaimed... "2...4...6...6 times."  At first i thought he was 
counting to get back into the logic mode.. but 6 times...  6 times
for what???  Seeing how Vulcans age slowly... if spock was 54 at
the time.. it would be hes done it six times.. as in Pon Farr thing...  (i
forget if it was 7 or 9 years..)  Anyway.. six what?? :D

Yet another question from the technobabblonian. 
-- 
-Troy Rutter        |  Another Budding Programmer of the rare
Iowa State Univ.    |      species of technobabblonians.
Project Vincent     |
    "Beware Romulans bearing GIFs."  -me with apologies to De.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: steve@picard.cs.wisc.edu (Steven Glinberg)
Subject: Trivia-Sela
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 08:29:54 GMT



Did you know?

The ship used for the Lysian central command in 'Canundrum', 5th season,
was the same model used in 'Justice', 1st season, as the God like ship 
half in another dimension?

Sela the Romulan appeared in the dark and spoke at the end of the episode
'Mind's Eye' end of 4th season, two episodes before she was seen for the 
first time ever - the season finale, at the end of Redemption I.

Trivially,
sg
steve@picard.cs.wisc.edu


Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: ian@ug.cs.dal.ca (Ian Littlewood)
Subject: Re: STNG sucks!!!
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Distribution: dal
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 02:18:19 GMT

In <r6snnkb@lynx.unm.edu> quirk@pioneer.unm.edu (Gym Z. Quirk) writes:

>In article <18lj3gINNqu@agate.berkeley.edu> ph111-bx@violet.berkeley.edu (;;;;7202) writes:
>>In article <BuBM6z.LxJ@cs.dal.ca> ian@ug.cs.dal.ca (Ian Littlewood) writes:
>>}Both Q and the Borg are child's play compared to the Organians, Trelane
>>}or V'ger.
>>
>>Q's more powerful than the Organians.  Q even said he was omnipotent.

>And you actually *beleive* him? ;-) ;-) ;-)

>-- 
>Capt. Gym Z. Quirk  (Known to some as Taki Kogoma)  quirk@pioneer.unm.edu
> I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to
>                          what I have now...

Exactly... (I am *NOT* a fan of TNG - in fact, I HATE it beyond words - I'm a
fan of the one and only STAR TREK) Q also said he was all-knowing and yet he's
proven on many occasions that he isn't... the first meeting for instance - if he
had been all-knowing then he'd have known how the entire encounter would end,
that later he would be thrown out of the continuum, that humans get hungry... AND
he would have known what that hunger felt like, that humans need to sleep, etc... 
Q is nothing; Trelane and the Organians could bury him for a joke and as for the 
Borg... well, before the thought "resistance is futile" could pass through their
pathetic little minds, V'ger would have assimilated and stored them.

TNG chooses aliens that can make use of special effects... nothing more; they're
far LESS cerebral than STAR TREK and quite simply can't hold their own...
From: Charlie_Hutchins@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie Hutchins)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: `Classic' Board Game
Date: 14 Sep 92 07:59:28 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

Has anyone played the ltd ed board game brought out by Classic in June? I just
bought it and the rules seem very inadequate. I was hoping that someone out
there who had played it could give me some further hints as to exactly how the
game is played. I really don't see how one could get stuck in either of the
neutral zones, and thus nothing bad can happen to the ship. It was a big
disappointment anyway, but maybe this is because i just don't know how to play
it properly. If somebody could send me a few pointers I would be gratefu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: ian@ug.cs.dal.ca (Ian Littlewood)
Subject: Re: STNG sucks!!!
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Distribution: dal
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:06:35 GMT

In <1992Sep9.083020.12747@unlv.edu> sknkwrks@unlv.edu (Scott Alfter) writes:

>In article <1992Sep8.125901.25854@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes:
>>strength department.  *By contrast*, on TNG rarely do they meet up with
>>alien lifeforms significantly more powerful than themselves, which
>>require any brains at all.  IMNSHO, the TNG crew could easily do their
>>jobs with practically no brains at all.  In fact, they probably do.  ;)

>You must have never heard of Q...or of the Borg.

>  _/_   Scott Alfter                             Internet: sknkwrks@cs.unlv.edu
> / v \  Call the Skunk Works BBS today!                      Fidonet: 1:209/765
>(IIe (  TEMPORARILY OFFLINE    Apple II/IBM
> \_^_/  Ask me about SoftDAC--digital audio for your IIe/IIc! Apple II Forever!


Both Q and the Borg are child's play compared to the Organians, Trelane or V'ger.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: edwards@ee.fit.edu (John Edwards)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: hugh no longer a borg
Date: 5 Sep 92 22:19:19 GMT
Organization: Florida Tech, CP/EE Dept.

>>the Borg's inability to sever a connection with a "lost"
>>Borg may be their "Achille's heel".  She also said that
>>detaching a borg from the collective would be like asking
>>a human to cut off an arm or a leg...it just can't be done.

Actually I think we're pretty lucky the Borg is constained to
come and get Hugh.

Otherwise next season we'll be forced to watch the spinnoff
show; 'Ensign Hugh of Starfleet Acadamy'  :)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: ras@kepler.unh.edu (Robert A Seace)
Subject: Re: STNG sucks!!!
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 10:40:21 GMT

In article <B24wqB1w165w@ailanth.UUCP> tallman%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Robert Oliver) writes:
>vnelson@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Gerald Vernon Nelson) writes:
>
>> I'll put my vote in for TOS.

[Lots of good stuff deleted...]

>> Hey, I get kinda tired of watch them sit around a table and banter...
>> 
>> Picard:  Well, any other option?
>> Troi  :  I sense... 
>> Geordi:  Well, through my visor I can see...
>> Worf  :  ATTACK, KILL THEM! 
>> 
>> Good think TOS is still on Late Nights..
>> 
>
>You would prefer this...
>
>WORF: Sir, an unidentified ship is approach--
>PICARD: BLOW IT TO HELL WORF! FIRE PHASERS! ARM TORPEDOES! KILL! KILL!

	No, I believe he said he'd prefer something a bit more like TOS.
And, if you had ever watched any episodes of TOS, you'd realize that the
above is nothing like it (for one thing, there is no "WORF" or "PICARD"
in TOS ;-)).  Kirk was as much of a peaceful man as Picard is, but the
main difference between them seems to be that Kirk makes his own decisions
about what to do, whereas Picard constantly seems at a loss for what to
do, and always resorts to asking his crew (or, surrendering; he's got that
one down ;-)).  Sure there were more battles in TOS, but that's not because
Kirk was a war-loving psychopath, but because the enemies they fought in
TOS were far more aggressive.  More often than not, Kirk was forced to
fight.  If Picard were captain in Kirk's time, he would either do the same
thing as Kirk, or, more likely, him and his crew get killed by some new
hostile alien with the power to turn people into peanuts or something... ;-)

||======================================================================||
||  Robert A. Seace  ||  Senior at UNH  ||  E-mail: ras@kepler.unh.edu  ||
||    AKA: Agrajag   ||     CS major    ||  or, maybe: ras@nic.unh.edu  ||
||======================================================================||
"I will go mad!" "Good idea. I went mad for a while, did me no end of
 good." - Life, the Universe and Everything

Gene Roddenberry: 1921-1991.  You will be missed.
May your dream "Live long and prosper".
From: brown@vidiot.UUCP (Vidiot)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: TV Special hosted by Patrick Stewart
Keywords: Star Trek, The Cage, Patrick Stewart, TV Special, Cast Interviews
Date: 15 Sep 92 00:18:42 GMT
Reply-To: brown@vidiot.UUCP (Vidiot)
Distribution: na
Organization: Vidiot's Hangout

In article <1992Sep14.014244.8539@news.iastate.edu> techy@iastate.edu (Technobabblonian) writes:
<In article <BuJL2t.K38@cs.dal.ca> rountree@cs.dal.ca (Eric Rountree) writes:
<>
<>A year and a half to two years ago a special about Star Trek hosted by 
<>Patrick Stewart aired. It contained "The Cage" in its entirety and 
<>completely in colour, and also featured interview clips with the casts of 
<>the original and Next Generation series.
<>
<>I would like to know the following:
<>
<>a) Does anyone out there know the name of this special?
<>
<>b) Does anyone out there have this special on tape?
<>
<>c) Would any of those persons who have the special on tape be willing to
<>   make a copy of it?
<
<The name was called "Star Trek: From One Generation to the Next"
<
<However, I too am trying to find a copy.. maybe there will be
<an official release from PP in the near future.

I have it on 3/4" Umatic (edited) tape.  There should be lots of copies
out there.
-- 
      harvard\                          spool.cs.wisc.edu!astroatc!vidiot!brown
Vidiot  ucbvax!uwvax..........!astroatc!vidiot!brown
      rutgers/            INTERNET:vidiot!brown%astroatc.UUCP@spool.cs.wisc.edu
                                   brown@wi.extrel.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: jcomer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jonathan C Comer)
Subject: Re: Sexism and Plunging Necklines
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 12:54:15 GMT

In article <BuG7CK.6GL@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> jeffo@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu writes:

>To me, since ST:TNG makes up so much other stuff and it is a fantasy show
>(that's what the "FI" in "SCI-FI" means, folks) and it is trying in other

Etc.

How do you get "FI" out of fantasy?  SCI-FI comes from SCIence FIction.
                                                       ^^^    ^^
Jon
Xref: sparky rec.arts.startrek.misc:9274 rec.arts.startrek.current:13105