HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: keegan@pan.crd.ge.com (James G Keegan Jr)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Abstinence is the only answer
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:43:28 GMT
Reply-To: james g keegan jr <keegan@crd.ge.com>
Distribution: na
Organization: T.S.A.K.C.
Disclaimer: i speak for myself only, unless noted otherwise

steven@jaynes ( Steve Novak) writes:
-> > = James Keegan writes:
-> >-> = (Eric Marsh) writes:
-> >-> Holtsinger looks more like Rasmussen every day. 
-> 
-> >that's certainly true.
-> 
-> >-> Is there any support out there for a Holtsinger
-> >-> boycott?
-> 
-> >didn't you learn your lesson with the djr boycott?
-> >half the people who, like lemmings, signed it,
-> >ended up replying to djr's posts anyway and looking
-> >like hypocrites for doing so.
-> 
-> *I* signed it after it had been in effect awhile
-> _and honored it_ for one reason: he was SO
-> flabbergasted, he began striking in a panic against
-> EVERYone like a rattlesnake pinned under a rock, his
-> already obstinate lies deteriorating into a
-> brainless flapping similar to a tire in an 80 MPH
-> blowout.

i know you did, and i know you stuck to what you said.
unfortunately, a lot of people didn't. that, imo, made
the whole thing relatively ineffective.

what i suggested back then, and i still think it's
valid now, is this: if you wish to ignore someone, just
do it. announcing it just puts you at a disadvantage
should you change your mind. don't you remember djr
posting the list of boycott signees who had broken the
boycott? i still have some of those posts. do you know
how many people said one thing and did another?

announcing a formal boycott is as silly as announcing
the contents of your killfile, imo. ignoring people is
something just to be done. i don't see any value in
announcing it.

-> He finally HAD NO ANSWER, not even a stupid lie.  

sure he did. he made fun of all the people who signed
the boycott and who then broke the boycott. and, in
that, he was right.

-> It was great.

for whom?


-- 
----
charter member   ...   T.S.A.K.C.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com (J H Woodyatt)
Subject: Re: Did someone ask about misogynist pro-life loons?
Reply-To: bard@cutter.ssd.loral.com
Organization: Abiogenesis 4 Less
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 18:55:46 GMT

nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
# chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman) writes:
# >Just in case there was any doubt about the mindset of some of the
# >Republican Party's leading lights, Pat Robertson recently wrote a
# >letter criticizing the Equal Rights Amendment, suggesting that
# >feminists want women to kill their children and practice witchcraft.
# 
# Interesting use of the word "suggesting."  Just how strongly did he
# suggest it?  Robertson is much too astute to make blanket statements
# like the one you say he suggested.

From the Associated Press story:

> But Mr. Robertson's letter, distributed late last month to supporters
> of the evangelical organization Christian Coalition, described the
> proposal as part of a "feminist agenda" that "is not about equal
> rights for women."
>
> Instead, the letter said, "it is about a socialist, anti-family,
> political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands,
> kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and
> become lesbians."


-- 
J H Woodyatt (a.k.a. Dr. Strychnine)
Space Systems/Loral

"there's a lot going on that you miss. nothing soft about THESE
machines. mean, timeless, mean, purposeful, crammed with meaning."
                                                  -- Andrew Palfreyman
Xref: sparky talk.abortion:34291 alt.discrimination:4066
From: garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Doug Holsinger: Anti-Semite?
Keywords: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)
Date: 1 Sep 92 14:31:38 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <lefty-310892165951@lefty.apple.com> lefty@apple.com (Lefty) writes:
#I've seen the following quote in Doug Holtsinger's signature in several
#messages, and I've grown more offended by it each time I've seen it.
#
#In article <1992Aug30.232948.17241@ncsu.edu>, dsh@odin.ece.ncsu.edu (Doug
#Holtsinger) wrote:
## 
##       "My logic is based on ... a religious perspective which says
##  that personhood begins at birth (actually a month after birth if
##  we want to be precise)..."
##    -- Gloria Feldt,
##       chief executive, Planned Parenthood of Central and Northern Arizona
## 
##   "I see nothing extreme or reprehensible about this statement."
##     -- garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) <BtnDAw.Iwo.2@cs.cmu.edu>
#
#Gloria Feldt is accurately summarizing, as I understand it, the Talmudic
#point of view regarding personhood.  I see no evidence that, unlike you,
#Ms. Feldt is attempting to impose her point of view on anyone else.  Do
#you have a specific problem with this, Mr. Holtsinger?  Do you object to
#the beliefs or practices of the Jewish religion?  What point are you 
#attempting to make with this?
#
#Oh, and for the record, I see nothing extreme or reprehensible about this
#statement, either.


Also for the record, I said, "I see nothing extreme or reprehensible 
about this statement.  What is it about Judaism that bothers you so?"
Holtsinger responded with, "That will make a lovely quote."  Holtsinger
has been quite self-righteous about other forms of bigotry, but seems
to think that anti-Semitism is an acceptable form.  

Susan
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity
From: chall@eco.twg.com (Charles Don Hall)
Subject: Re: Observations
Organization: The Wollongong Group (East Coast Operations)
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 20:01:59 GMT

In <1992Aug25.164210.12133@advtech.uswest.com> stevens@eatdust (John Stevens) writes:

[I deleted most of your posting, since I think I addressed all of 
your points in the message I posted earlier today.]

>>Charles Don Hall, Licensed Philosopher  (chall@eco.twg.com)

>So who do you apply to for a license?  Or do you have a degree in
>philosophy?

You apply to the North American Applied Philosophy Assocation.

The kind of philosophy that you get a degree for is "Pure Philosophy".
We don't think much of it, because it devotes too much time to asking
questions, and not enough time to finding answers. The goal of
Applied Philosophy is to come up with answers.

If you'd like to learn more, I'd recommend John Kennedy Toole's novel, 
"A Confederacy of Dunces". Two of the characters (Ignatius J. Reilly 
and Myra Minkoff) are role-models for Applied Philosophers everywhere.

>John
>stevens@uswest.com
-- 

===========================================================
Charles Don Hall, Licensed Philosopher  (chall@eco.twg.com)
===========================================================
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,talk.politics.misc
From: Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Suzanne finally sees the light
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1992 13:22:27 GMT
Reply-To: margoli@watson.IBM.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In  <pbknt6j.gordons@netcom.com>  gordons@netcom.com (Gordon Storga) writes:
> <1992Sep2.021850.24928@csus.edu> chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney) :
> >
> >Yeah, shame on Suzanne. She shouldn't be imitating you like that. It
> >is not nice for pro-lifers to say such things about people.
>
> Neiner, neiner.  Is this the level of school yard repartee they teach up
> there in SACU?

Don't be silly, Gordon.  They also teach him more advanced come-backs, such as:
# Liar liar pants on fire.
<1992Sep2.011454.22569@csus.edu>

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
Xref: sparky talk.abortion:33442 alt.abortion.inequity:3279
From: keegan@pan.crd.ge.com (James G Keegan Jr)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: Re: Proposal for a moderated abortion newsgroup
Date: 25 Aug 92 23:24:23 GMT
Reply-To: james g keegan jr <keegan@crd.ge.com>
Organization: T.S.A.K.C.
Disclaimer: i speak for myself only, unless noted otherwise

dsh@odin.ece.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
-> james g keegan jr <keegan@crd.ge.com> writes:
-> >dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
-> 
-> >> I was wondering if there would be any interest in
-> >> a moderated abortion newsgroup.
-> 
-> > of course there is! i suspect you'll find that the
-> > same kind of people who want to reduce or
-> > eliminate a woman's choice will also want to
-> > reduce or eliminate the expression of opinion.
-> 
-> I don't want to see the expression of opinion
-> reduced or eliminated.  

then you'll surely not want opinions or their method of
expression moderated, will you?

-> I believe that flames and insults have a tendency to
-> discourage people from expressing their opinions.

perhaps you do believe that. but, based on your short
history in t.a., i think not.

-> That's why I suggested a moderated newsgroup.

this, i don't believe.


-- 
----
charter member   ...   T.S.A.K.C.
Xref: sparky talk.abortion:35089 alt.abortion.inequity:3537
From: bpharmon@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: Re: A little fatherly Advice...
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:53:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

In article <1992Sep3.121320.7905@wetware.com>, drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux) writes:

> You Know, they are not like Pets...
> 
> They grow and have a life of their own...
> 
> And the best that we can do is be friends...

	Amen.  (oops -- morally unwise religious blasphemy!!!)



> 
> ciao
> drieux
> 
> 'to lose one parent is regretable,
> but to lose both of them is sheer negligence.'

.... I did know your name was Ernest......


> If I have Told You Once, I've Told You a Thousand Times:
> To Keep Good Girls From Going Bad,
> Put them back in the Refrigerator.
> This Also Works for Stale NFS Handles.

	Be sure it's a G.E.
=======================================================================
Brian Harmon           "...God sets us nothing but riddles.."
Miami University	      -Dostoyevski's _The Brothers Karamazov_
Oxford, Ohio 45056  		
(513) 529-5417	      "The absurd is all too necessary on earth.  
 yeech! ack!		  The world stands on absurdities.."
  ungh!				-Fyodor Dostoyevski
--------------bpharmon@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu--------------------------
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger)
Subject: Re: Pro-Choice Challenge  (WAS THIRD TRIMESTER ABORTIONS)
Reply-To: dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 20:36:25 GMT

In article <BtnDAw.Iwo.2@cs.cmu.edu> 
garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) writes:

>dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:

>> You miss the point Ms. Garvin.  When you vigorously denounce the 
>> extremists on the pro-life side and try to ignore the extremists 
>> on the pro-choice side such as Mr. Loomis, it makes you look a 
>> little hypocritical.  

> No, you miss the point, Holtsinger.  Did you denounce Buchanan's
> speech or didn't you?

No, I didn't see Buchanan's speech.  But then again, I haven't
denounced any of the extremists in the Democratic party.  

>> I'm glad you can finally acknowledge the 
>> existence of extremists on the pro-choice side, even though I had 
>> to give you a little prodding.  

> Don't be so quick to take the credit, DOD.  I responded to
> Steve Novak.  Do you think that you're Steve Novak now?

No, whatever gave you that idea?  I just mentioned that I  
was glad to see you denounce the extremists on your side for a
change, instead of constantly attacking the pro-life extremists.  
That's good work, keep it up. 

> I don't call Loomis "an extremist on the pro-choice side,"
> because of his feelings about euthanasia or infanticide,
> by the way.  "Pro-choice" generally refers to the opinion
> that the abortion decision should be left up to the pregnant
> woman.  It has nothing to do with euthanasia or infanticide.

Infanticide, euthanasia, and abortion are related issues because
they involve the killing of human beings. 

Loomis holds extreme positions on issues other than abortion, but then 
I've seen you denounce pro-life extremists for their positions on issues
like contraceptives and homosexuality.  If infanticide and euthanasia
are not related to abortion, then certainly homosexuality and 
contraceptives aren't related to abortion either.  

>> I hope to see you continue to acknowledge the extremists on the 
>> pro-choice side.  Now, here's your chance to do just that:
>>
>>      "My logic is based on ... a religious perspective which says
>> that personhood begins at birth (actually a month after birth if
>> we want to be precise)..."
>>   -- Gloria Feldt,
>>      chief executive, Planned Parenthood of Central and Northern Arizona

> I see nothing extreme or reprehensible about this statement.  

That's going to make a lovely quote. 

>Susan


Doug Holtsinger

      "My logic is based on ... a religious perspective which says
 that personhood begins at birth (actually a month after birth if
 we want to be precise)..."
   -- Gloria Feldt,
      chief executive, Planned Parenthood of Central and Northern Arizona

  "I see nothing extreme or reprehensible about this statement."
    -- garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) <BtnDAw.Iwo.2@cs.cmu.edu>

Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: control
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1992 16:54:02 GMT
Reply-To: margoli@watson.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In  <nyikos.715470407@milo.math.scarolina.edu>  nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>
> I'm not sure what Suzanne's position is on these things, though I do
> know she would not ban contraceptives,

I'm not sure how you "know" this, since she has stated in this newsgroup
that she *would* ban the Pill and the IUD (contraceptives which also work
as abortifacients).

> and I don't even know whether she uses them herself.

Nope.

> Trying to pry that information out of her is something I call tasteless.

"Trying to pry it out of her"???  Try getting her to shut up about it!
:-)

(There's probably something that could be said here about her discussing
her vaginal mucus being tasteless, but I'm eating lunch now...)

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
From: ursic@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Good News from a Premie!
Date: 4 Sep 92 11:27:26 EST

In article <1992Sep4.004605.20207@noao.edu>, forgach@noao.edu
 (Suzanne Forgach) writes:> 
> I heard on the news this week that a little girl named Sasha was born last
> spring in Florida at 22 weeks and 15 ounces (yes that's less than a pound,
> folks), and she just went home from the hospital this week perfectly healthy
> and happy, with no evidence whatsoever of any damage, much less brain
> damage, from her ordeal.
> I also heard from a friend whose nephew was born prematurely last fall
> that they have a new treatment for premie lungs as of only last October,
> so I would bet that that's how little Sasha made it!!

This is truely good news, Suzanne, technology is getting closer to the day
when human beings can be grown completely outside of a womb. Having children
will be painless.  
Now if we could just get them to clean thier rooms once they're here. -J.J.
From: jnorris@milton.u.washington.edu (Joel Norris)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: aborting females
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:11:06 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Aug28.180126.4779@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> mprc@troi.cc.rochester.edu (M. Price) writes:
>   Actually, it seems that there are many people on the .net (some of
>whom have applied to your posting) who would like there to be no
>sex-selection abortions, but realize that there is absolutely no way it
>could be legislated.
>
>                                                            MP

But are these people pro-choice or not? I would expect that pro-life people
wouldn't like sex-selection abortions.

Joel
From: mcbeanb@brandonu.ca
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Maury Povich and the brainwashing child abusers
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:47:25 GMT
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

In article <1992Sep2.164214.4506@pwcs.stpaul.gov>, chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman) writes:
> mcbeanb@brandonu.ca (Brian McBean) writes about children
> used in abortion clinic protests:
> 
>> I'm not sure if it's good parental practice to allow your
>> 13 year-old daughter to be arrested 42 times, and say "it's
>> ok, she wanted to do it, I didn't put her up to it."

[...]
 
> I'm not accusing these parents of such heinous motivations, but
> I think that using your own children as a buffer between you and
> the police is cowardly, hypocritical and downright abusive.  And
> shouldn't these parents be charged with contributing to the
> delinquency of a minor?

I'm pretty sure that the parents were charged and had been serving
time, and one was going to be (likely) picked up by the police once
she got home from the show, but things are getting fuzzy now...

Brian McBean  -  McBeanB@BrandonU.Ca
From: regard@sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: FOCA: And I quote.....
Date: 26 Aug 1992 17:33:21 -0700
Organization: Hewlett Packard, San Diego Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpsdde.sdd.hp.com

In article <1992Aug26.203428.27053@menudo.uh.edu> HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.) writes:
>In <17glukINN3jn@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com> regard@sdd.hp.com writes:
>> In article <nyikos.714846005@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>> >>>Jimmy Miller writes:
>> I don't know what you two are wondering about.  It should be abundantly clear
>> to both of you that I think your insistance at 'informing' women 'adequately'
>> is bogus -- merely a ploy to force upon women *your* biases.
>
>  I rather thought we'd already settled this in e-mail.  If you can't handle my
>having an opinion and being willing to express it (in appropriate forums),tough
>shit.  I do not speak for Peter, but my "ploy" is no ploy.  It's very simple.
>No "propaganda", no moralizing, nothing left out or glossed over.  All the
>risks, all the costs, and all the avenues.

Jimmy, we *have* already been through this in e-mail.  "Should" means a couple
things.  It can mean in-a-perfect-world-w-y-z, or it can mean something-must-
be-done.  You say you mean 'in-a-perfect-world-x-y-z', which is fine.  I've
told you that on this net, *I* am speaking to those who figure should trans-
lates to something-must-be-done.

Guess what, Jim.  That means by your own definition, you are out of here.  It
may well mean, by someone *else's* definition, you count.  Since your defini-
tion only applies to *you*, I'm surprised to see you still harping on it.
 
YOU say it isn't a 'ploy'.  Bully.  I say it is.  Bully.  I will be thrilled
to be wrong.

>  Oh that's clear enough.  I never wondered that you had a "it's okay to only 
>look for what you want to hear" attitude.  I was just amazed at how you could
>be so smugly proud of it.

Why?  I mean, aside from the fact that you have no notion of whether or not
I'm smug or proud, why would smugness or pride make any difference whatsoever?

>You just hate it that I cannot be tarred with the "pro-force" brush you 
>can use on so many others.  You just hate it that I...
>You just hate it that I ....

I don't think you have any real way of knowing what I hate, either.

The mistake you are making above, Jim, is figuring that my participation on
this net has much of anything to do with you personally.  It doesn't.  I
don't know who you are, I don't have any dealings with you personally, and
I don't have an opinion about you personnally.  I'm talking in a public
forum about a public issue.                        

Don't take it all so *personally* Jim.  You might be happier, and you'd
definitely get a better understanding of the dynamics on this net.

Adrienne Regard

Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin)
Subject: Re: People Concerned Until Childbirth
Keywords: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 04:27:59 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.005228.20374@noao.edu> forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) writes:
#From article <1992Aug30.010613.3907@crd.ge.com>, by keegan@pan.crd.ge.com (James G Keegan Jr):
## dsh@odin.ece.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes to susan garvin:
## -# I also wish that you would display the same
## -# compassion towards the children who are going inside
## -# the clinic to be killed.
## 
## can you name one chile who walked into a clinic and was
## killed?
#
#
#Can you say --- Becky Bell?


Well, yes, Suzanne, I can say "Becky Bell," but it wouldn't
answer Jim's question.  Unless, of course, you're trying to
draw some Nyikos-like connection between the fact that Ms.
Bell entered a clinic where she could have obtained a safe
abortion had Indiana not had a teenage endangerment law on
its books, and later died from the effects of an illegal
abortion obtained elsewhere.  

Susan
From: mills@uga.edu (Kathi Mills)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Another Clueless Newbie
Date: 27 Aug 92 22:05:33 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia Economics Department

> Swicegood

>Not as clueless as you think.

Just clueless enough to post a message four screens long, just to inject
this meaningless statement at the end.

That's pretty damn clueless.

-- 
"A woman voting for a Republican is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders."

Ferrari (mills@rolf.stat.uga.edu)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: eeb1@ellis.uchicago.edu (e elizabeth bartley)
Subject: Re: "And maybe flog the little b*tch to teach her a lesson"
Reply-To: eeb1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 23:33:15 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.174342.23532@samba.oit.unc.edu>
Chuck.Lavazzi@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Chuck Lavazzi) writes:

>	Not only insulting, but legally bogus.  If the law says an embryo is
>a human being, it doesn't matter what the person who paid for the murder
>claims to understand or not understand.  It would still be necessary to
>bring a charge of contract murder for the crime of paying to have a human
>being killed.  That's the legal situation that *must* result from the
>passage of the Human Life Amendment or similar legislation.

I would think you could write the exception into the laws in question.

-- 
Pro-Choice                 Anti-Roe                     - E. Elizabeth Bartley
            Abortions should be safe, legal, early, and rare.

Cthulhu for President -- when you're tired of voting for the lesser of 2 evils.