From: nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos)
Subject: Re: WILL THE REAL MISOGYNISTS PLEASE STAND UP? Case 1.
Keywords: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date:  7 Sep 92 19:42:54 GMT

In <Bu50vy.8Ax.2@cs.cmu.edu> garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) writes:

>In article <nyikos.715737676@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>>In <Bu43C8.6ox.2@cs.cmu.edu> garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) writes:


>##Oh, yeah, right.  DOD uses one of his anti-Semitic slurs as a .sig.
>##Are you telling us that you don't read any of DOD's articles now,
>##or are you just using the "if I can't defend it, I never saw
>##it" excuse?
>#
>#What's anti-Semitic about disagreeing with one woman's distorted account
>#of what Judaism teaches about human life?  

>I asked a Reform Rabbi if the view was distorted.  (By the way,
>the woman is describing the Reform view of *personhood*, not
>human life.)  She said no.

Have you ever asked an Orthodox rabbi? 

>#And even if it were not 
>#distorted--would you call someone anti-Islamic if he criticized 
>#people who saw nothing wrong with a precept allowing polygamy?

>Yes.  I might, for example, think that polygamy is morally wrong.
>(Please note that this is hypothetical.)  That doesn't mean that
>I would feel that I must criticize people whose religion
>advocated or accepted polygamy.  Holtsinger's quote of me was
>in response to his request that I condemn the woman for
>her opinion.

The request does not appear in the .sig file, and I haven't seen
it anywhere else.  Can you repeat it?

>  As I said, I see nothing extreme or reprehensible
>about her opinion.  She did not say that she wanted everyone
>to accept this viewpoint.  

>We're talking about the difference between disagreeing with
>someone and being intolerant of that person (and their religion.)
>Holtsinger has attacked people for saying anything that 
>resembles a criticism of Christianity.  I think that his 
>attack on me for not criticizing a religious view indicates
>that Holtsinger does not believe that Judaism is worthy of
>the same respect that Christianity is.  To me, that is
>the form of bigotry known as anti-Semitism.  

So far, we are only talking about Reform Judaism, which has no
official world-view.  As far as I have been able to ascertain,
 rabbis are pretty much free to
judge what is OK and what is not OK within Reform Judaism, except
perhaps where the Torah is concerned.  And I have yet to see 
support for the notion that personhood begins a month after birth in the
Torah.

And I have yet to see an anti-Semitic statement by either Holtsinger
or Chaney.  I am not denying that they have occurred, only that I
have seen any.

>(Another example, which occurred before your arrival, 

Right.  I did not see that one either.

>was a post in which Chaney attributed comments made by a
>woman with a Jewish-sounding last name to "the Jews of
>New York," and denigrated the entire group.)

Well, you've just attributed comments made by one Jewish woman
and one Reform woman rabbi to Judaism as a whole, yet you have
not denigrated Judaism--or have you?

>Susan Garvin

Peter Nyikos

Newsgroups: talk.abortion