From: bhchan@soda.berkeley.edu (Billy H. Chan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Why are we different?
Date: 4 Jan 1993 01:33:00 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan4.005223.14665@beaver.cs.washington.edu> paulko@wolf.cs.washington.edu (Paul Ko) writes:
 >Charles Roten (roten@cuba.gsfc.nasa.gov) wrote:
 >: whether in Japan, Taiwan, or Beijing, [schools] come out looking 
 >:_MUCH_ superior to the American system.  
>
 >At what cost? I don't know about Taiwan or Beijing, but the Japanese public
 >school system isn't nearly as good as many seem to think. 
 >
 >Rote memorization, cram school, suicide... it's all way too intense.
 >A lot of Japanese kids just don't get many chances to 'have fun' and 
 >'be kids'. Many are pushed onto the "shushoku" train from day one, and
 >they aren't enjoying it.
 >
 >I seriously question the effectiveness of the Japanese school system.
 >
 >
 >Paul Ko.

Paul (and others), let me ask you this:
	What IS the goal of a school system?
If the goal of the school system is to teach kids how to learn, how
to do well on tests, how to survive, I think you should rethink your
question on the "effectiveness"ness of the school system.
Is a school supposed to teach kids how to "Have fun"?
Is a school supposed to teach kids how to "be kids"?

In my point of view (ie. IMHO) schools are here to teach someone
(kid, adult, whomever) a subject or a set of different subjects.
The only subject I fail to see a place in school is "FUN".  
But since the question is on effectiveness, I think Paul just has
a different image of what school is than I do.

From what I gather in HK, you LEARN in school, not HAVE FUN in 
school.  HAVE FUN is what you do outside of school (though admittedly
I know there's not much of that).  Basically, the system asks
what the Kid (but more the Parent) want more, FUN or EDUCATION.
In HK, you can easily have FUN (go to dance clubs, go join a gang
(yeah, right!), go to one of the many island/resorts (the ticket
on the ship/boat is pretty cheap, if I remember correctly), go sing
in a Karoake place, heck, play Nintendo (or whatever cthe clones are
called...PC-ENGINE?) at home...or just plain watch TV/see movies)
There is plenty of OPPORTUNITIES for FUN, but the child/kid/student
just needs to recognize what he wants.
SUICIDE?  that's not the system's fault per se... it's the parent's
fault.  Some parent's want too much from their kids, giving them
too much pressure.  Thus, the kid (who's smart, right?  else they'd
never think of suicide in the first place as an escape... just not
smart enough to realize that it's not the ONLY escape) breaks down.
Now, I think the Asian school systems _DOES_ provide the parents more
ammo to be so pushie/demanding, since it's a vicious school system,
with testings here and there and everywhere.
The American system, on the otherhand, is very relaxed.  The "You just
have to PASS" mentality seemed pretty strong in the people I knew/met/
etc.etc.etc.  even in College.
But, why was the American school system so lax?  Because origianlly, in
the Land of Plenty, opportunities arose everywhere, so that Education
was not as MANDATORY of an ASSET as it was in Asia (less jobs for more
people, thus standards of education needed to be higher (for an edge on
the job market... sure, you can be a dishwasher, but no one only wanted
to "make a living"...no, they want to be rich, and was motivated enough
to not just dream about it... (sorry, major generalization taking place
in this post... I ask those anti-stereotypers suspend their distain for
a while longer.))))
But back to the original EFFECTIVENESS question.
My point: Asian system IS effective in teaching a few general "rules"
	of life.  1) It's a dog eat dog world.  2) you're not here to
	have fun, until you're rich enough to afford to have fun.
	3) Work hard, learn the system, and you'll go far.  4) Those
	who are most successful are those who a) learned how to learn
	or b) are super geniuses.... so that most of the time, only 
	those who learned to deal with the system succeed. (I don't
	believe Asians' are SuperGeniuses all)
and trains children how to:
	1) memorize every single thing  (some occupations needs good
		memory)
	2) learn how to learn effectively/efficiently
	3) decide what's more important to them in the long run
	4) think about the future, not just dream away
	5) take a sh*tload of stress and still survive
American system IS effective in teaching a child that:
	1) You can have fun and succeed at the same time.
	2) Don't be such a stressball, take a valium.  (j/k)
	2) Rote memorization is not necessary to get ahead in life.
	3) You can hve as much stress as you want, but we won't
		force you to stress out.
	4) You can be a child until you go to college, when it gets
		a bit tougher.

Dare I say that children in AmericanSchools have more fun, but children
who went to an AsianSystemSchool have a better idea of what to expect
in the REAL WORLD.... seems like Asian Children get much less oportunity
to be immature than American Children just because of the schooling they
receive.... stress does a lot to a child's maturity.... 
just my $0.001  (not even a penny's worth)
-- 
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*	Billy H. Chan		<bhchan@ocf.berkeley.edu> 	*
*	Lost at Cal!!!   	<bhchan@soda.berkeley.edu>	*
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