From: 34AEJ7D@CMUVM.BITNET
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Guns & self defense
Date: 18 Nov 92 16:51:20 GMT
Distribution: usa

(Now the following may sound like a flame, but that is not intended.
I sincerely believe that if you persist in these beliefs, unmodified
by some infusion of reality, you may draw some unfortunate experience
to you.)

In article <1240@abb-sc.abb-sc.COM>, ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) says:
>
>In article <1992Nov17.100728.7415@csus.edu>, gharlane@nextnet.csus.edu        e
>(Gharlan
>of Eddore) writes...
>
>
>> Don't count on it.   On at least a couple occasions in my life, I
>> stayed alive solely because I happened to be carrying a semi-automatic
>> pistol and be competent in its use.  When you're faced with a GROUP
>> of armed scum, unless you're as fast as greased lightning, a
>> revolver simply won't do the job.   If I hadn't been carrying a
>> nice old Model 1911A-1 Colt, I'd have gotten killed.
>
>        You have made a very effective argument for being armed, but I noticed
>something that was missing. Most of the situations you describe are avoidable.
>The psychotic ex-whatever turning up armed at the door is an exception, but

This concept is dangerously in error. I fear you do not live in an area
where car-jackings, bike-jackings (a cyclist on a bike path is struck
from behind with a baseball bat by an attacker who then steals the
bike, leaving the dead or seriously injured victim behind), home
invasions, and many other violent crimes abound. The concept that
one can avoid all such situations with absolutely certainty is
a fallacy that has resulted in serious injury or death to more than
one naive individual, pagan or otherwise.

>Camille Paglia was correct in her example that you don't walk down a dark
>alleyway alone if you don't want to get assulted.
>        I'm *not* saying that this is what you did, but it is true and knowing
>how *not* to get into a voilent situation is the first thing they teach you in
>many marshal arts and self-defense classes. I have found this to be very
>usefull and cannot imagine putting myself in a situation where I was going to
>be surrounded by gun toting thugs.

You seem to be confusing the martial arts concept of never STARTING
or INCITING hostilities with a sort of fuzzy, talismanic idea that
taking Karate lessons will automatically prevent someone else from
attacking. Bear in mind that there are predatory individuals out there
who can and will attack suddenly, without warning and with lethal intent.
Many of them are at least as skilled in close combat as the average
martial arts groupie, some are also dedicated to their own dark versions
of pagan gods/goddesses, and none are hampered by the societal
programming to be a helpless 'Bambi', a defenseless victim, that
is inflicted on us all by modern society. The result is that they do
not HESITATE that fraction of a second that their quarry almost always
does; that fraction of a second that makes the difference between life
and death.
>
>        The other thing I'm noticing about a number of the posts here is the
>chest thumping. I'm *not* talking about anyone in particular, I don't want to
>point any statements out, but I have noticed a lot of the descriptions and
>diatribes being posted remind me of adolecent males talking about their dicks.

Couldn't you spare us this regurgitation of shopworn, media-hyped
pop psychology? Such ignorant, gratuitous insults directed against
an entire sex add nothing to the debate and only tend to generate
reataliatory accusations of "penis envy" on the part of the accuser.

>Handguns, rifles, machine guns, all described with loving joy. These are
>weapons for killing people we are talking about! Just keep that in mind. It's

You are blinded and able to see only your self-defined facet of the
object. Obviously, baseball bats, knives, golf clubs, and automobiles
are much more dangerous, since they are silent, more easily accessible
to anyone (in some cases COMPLETELY UNREGULATED), far more powerful (in
the case of the automobile) and responsible for a much greater number
of deaths every day. By dwelling on your dark visions, you
make that the reality in your world.

>starting to sound as bad as my trip to the gunshop where a greasy man fondled
>the barrel of a gun he wanted to sell me and talked about how fast it could
>"spurt" bullets. Not as "potent" as his gun of course, but it can really
>"spew out the lead". Just sick.

Obviously, there is disharmony ("sickness", to use your term) somewhere.

You really need to look into yourself and do some meditation about this
if you always arrive at such twisted interpretations of a sales pitch
delivered by what you so clearly delineate as a member of a sex other
than your own. How is such an attitude different from that directed
against Blacks by the Klu Klux Klan not so many years ago, or against
Dr. Martin Luther King much more recently?


>                        - Ashley
>                (probably out of my depth, but I don't care)

I will pray for you to my chosen diety(ies).

W. K. Gorman
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:12929 talk.religion.newage:5320