HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jive@spanky.ssc.gov (Jim Ivey)
Subject: Re: New INL scheduling proposal:(long..please read this, however)
Organization: SSC Laboratory, Dallas, TX
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:45:21 GMT


     I hate to piss on your flame, Kevin, but you've picked the wrong
target.  Apparently, you have your candidates mixed up, since the only
posts I have made in the last few weeks have been to bemoan my lag and the
use of profanity on discovery.  I can understand the confusion, however, as
my worthy (not) opponent seeks to draw parallels between us at every turn,
in the hopes that the Nomination Committee will overlook the fact that he
will not be 'of age' for the '04 elections.

     To paraphrase a bit, "We will choose no Veep, before we *bleep*"
          <Censored by the MSU 'SticksAndStones' program>

> Sorry to flame the Veep, but

     Note the subtle difference between 
       'Veep' (young Phil, aka Streaker, planet scum* at-large)
           and
       'The Veep' (bav's unofficial mortal running-mate, only chosen
         because the Prez will never die, being immortal, so they only
         needed to consider my good looks and ogging ability, instead of
         those normal namsy-pamsy qualifications like golf handicap)

> FillInTheNOT!

     These less-than-subtle references to one of my aliases are becoming
increasingly annoying.  Please try to live up to the general humor content
I follow.  FillInHerDreams was certainly worthy play.

> Sorry, but there have been times when we've had a full team ready to play
> and spill blood, but haven't been able to get computers.  Do we lose

     Poor baby:/  I've missed one scrimmage and two season games because of
friggin' LIGHTNING STORMS.  Someone on high (probably bav's evil
twin-brother Skippy) has decided to have mercy on the opponents of TTWNN by
staying my usual Iron Fist of Devastation and General UnNiceNess.  At least
what terminals you have aren't situated next to Apollo's* trigger finger.

> because were in a university setting and don't have our own/business's
> computer to play from?  Hardly fair in any sense of the word.  I *know*
> that Berkeley also has this problem, so having set times is definitely
> NOT the way to go. 

     Suffer.  I have little pity for anyone from CMU and Berkeley, after
having to suffer through an eternity of pain and degradation in the pitiful
CS department at Purdue.  Fye on you.

> -KB
>  Rear Admiral "FillInTheOops" Akira

     Another lame attempt.  Try someone else's name, other than mine or
ZZnew twink's**.

     Jim / FillInTheBlank / The Veep (i.e. the one and only) / Karma

     P.S.  I haven't the foggiest idea what original article was about, so
don't even consider flaming me, unless your flames are for spelling
mistakes or general bad taste.

   *obScum
  **obBav
 ***obZZ
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:45:52 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Swiss pairings (long-but read anyway)

	Another possible way of schedualing the INL is by Swiss pairings.  This
is the way in which chess tournements are run.  
	There are several rounds of play, each one consisting of one game. 
Teams are place into backets based on how many wins they have, and play
a team in their own bracket.  Early on, there are sub-brackets based on
what round one has lost in.  When a tournement is finished, one team has
won the top bracket, and is the winner.  A tournament director tries to
set it up so that teams never play eachother more than once.  There are
programs written to do tournement direction atomaticly, so that the
director can not be called for favoritism.
	For simplicity, I will assume that teams are pre-ranked by the INL
council baseds on what they expect (This isn't completely accurate, but
should give a good guess.).  
	Here is a sample.

16 teams
Round #1 

#1 beats #9
#2 beats #10
#3 beats #11
#4 beats #12
#13 beats #5 (upset)
#6 beats #14
#7 beats #15
#8 beats #16

Round #2

#13 is ranked low because of their initial rankings.

Top bracket

#1 beats #6
#2 beats #7
#3 beats #8
#4 ties #13 

Next bracket

Likewise, #5 is the highest ranked in the next bracket.

#5 beats #12
#9 beats #14
#10 beats #15
#16 beats #11 (upset)


Round 3
Top bracket

In order to keep numbers of teams even team #4 is placed in the top
bracket, while #13 is one bracket down.

#1 beats #3
#2 beats #4

Next bracket

Now #13 is top ranked in the bracket for having the best record 1-0-1
instead of 1-1-0

#13 beats #8
#7 beats #6 (upset)

Next bracket

#5 beats #10
#9 beats #16

Next bracket

#11 beats #14
#12 beats #15

Rankings after 3 rounds

1 (3-0)
2 (3-0)
13 (2-0-1)
3 (2-1)wwl
7 (2-1)wlw
5 (2-1)lww
9 (2-1)lww
4 (1-1-1)
6 (1-2)wll
8 (1-2)wll
10 (1-2)lwl
16 (1-2)lwl
11 (1-2)llw
12 (1-2)llw
14 (0-3)
15 (0-3)


Round #4

Top bracket

#1 beats #2

next bracket

#13 beats #3

next

#5 beats #7

next

#4 beats #9

next

#6 beats #8

next

#16 beats #10 

next

#12 beats #11

next

#14 beats #15


Later rounds become more complex, and are where a director is needed.

Rankings after round 4
1 (4-0)
13 (3-0-1)
2 (3-1)wwwl
5 (3-1)lwww
4 (2-1-1)
3 (2-2)wwll
7 (2-2)wlwl
6 (2-2)wllw
9 (2-2)lwwl
16 (2-2)lwlw
11 (2-2)llww
8 (1-3)wlll
10 (1-3)lwll
12 (1-3)llwl
14 (1-3)lllw
15 (0-4)


	It is true that teams can get screwed this way (like team #8).  Teams
can also purposely lose or tie the first round to try to pull a "Swiss
gambit" to get easy games later on.  However, the odds of random
screwage are much lower.
	I would also like to note that teams which are badly ranked at the
beginning (like team #13) get a chance to prove it.

	I'm not going to get terribly upset with the council if they don't use
Swiss pairings, but it is worth looking into.

ZZnew guy
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 03:14:47 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: I killed myself
	<BxtuzF.LwD.2@cs.cmu.edu>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 16-Nov-92 Re: I killed myself
Jonathan Hardwick@cs.cmu (1247)

> There is a school of thought that defensive uses of this tactic (ie
> killing yourself by plasma to avoid being killed with armies) should
> be called "Chunging".  Or maybe "Gregging".


	This was mentioned in the song "He's bav" by some KSU player.  Perhaps
it should be called bavving.
	I kinda' like Chunging, though.

ZZnew guy
From: mcp@cs.umd.edu (Mike Polek)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: BRONCO: Is now RSA.
Date: 20 Nov 92 05:32:31 GMT

In article <surge.722128872@mowgli> surge@cqs.washington.edu (Jonathan Sari) writes:
>
>Well, granted that you guys are hosed.  There is yet a solution.  If some
>generous soul will post the RSA reserved.c (or provide the way to get it)
>minus the mean, nasty, hush-hush bits, then you can rewrite it with good,
>clean public domain encryption available for everyone!  Either that, or
>find some honest, hard-working person to do it for you.

I am in the process of putting up a clean version of the code,
suitable for public distribution. Most if the icky icky stuff is
in the key generator, which is completely omitted. Other than
that, there's a line that has to be removed from the utility
functions. I'm having a couple of people look at the public
version to make sure it's clean, then I'll zip it off to our
friend James who has been posting so much recently. He has
generously volunteered to work on doing something magical in
the encryption function that will return something that our
servers will accept. 

Of course, he won't be downloading PGP, which is publicly available
as plaintext, and using that to figure out which line I took out
of the utilities. 

In any case, the packet handling of the new clients is no big 
secret and open for world perusal....

And while I'm thinking of it, was the old reserved.c considered
some sort of cryptography? Were we already exporting munitions
by letting it out of the country? I mean, in all that time I never
heard of anyone actually cracking the reserved.c scheme. The file
just proliferated a lot. Maybe when someone cracks the RSA scheme,
they'll be looking to the old reserved.c as the next hush hush
encryption algorithm... :)

Mike Polek
<mcp@cs.umd.edu>
From: nelson@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (Jeffrey J. Nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Married NetTrekers (was : RE SB...)
Date: 15 Nov 92 23:35:17 GMT
Reply-To: nelson@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (Jeffrey J. Nelson)
Distribution: world,local

In article <kf11PN200VoqAQx14H@andrew.cmu.edu>, tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Timothy C. Worsley) writes:
|> Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 13-Nov-92 Re: Married NetTrekers
|> (was.. Steven R. Stuve@IASTATE. (777)
|> 
|> > > Well I know two more married players.  The BIG question is how many
|> > > people out there have kids?
|> > > 
|> > I have 3 daughters  (6yrs, 4 yrs, 1 1/2 yrs).   (I am saving up to put an
|> > extra bathroom in the house for when they are teenagers.:)
|> 
|> 
|> 	At which point, I feel really stupid, because I'm forgetting that
|> FillInTheBlank is also married, and has 5 children (2 daughters, 3 sons).
|> 
|> ZZnew guy

Geez, Pizza is breeding like a rabbit...

				- Jeff (Miles Teg)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: JGR@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Jim Reisman)
Subject: INHL Exhibition Game I: The Return of rjones
Organization: Penn State Engineering Computer Lab
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 05:44:10 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

                Stop the Press!

                Hold the Phone!

    It's Here! The World's 1st INHL Exhibition Game.  

        Will our loved ones ever forgive us? 

  Fourteen brave souls with the Right Stuff have stepped forward, to
take part in a bold new experiment in net entertainment. For those
unable to participate due to time conflicts, it's like the Canadians
say: "Quelle fromage.."

  For the edification of the discriminating sports fan, here are the 
line-ups for the game to be played this Sunday Night:
  
 KLINGONS                        ORIONS
 --------                        ------
 bav                             Hockey-ikki
 Bazooka Joe                     Mr. Wizard
 Gamera                          Red Shirt
 Ulf!!                           Grunk
 rjones                          Spam Finger
 helix                           Alf
 chi                             Bargler

   Broadcast rights are now on sale.  Also, we are considering hiring 
ENPN for the purpose of setting game odds . :)


 Jim Reisman
 ID: Hockey-ikki
 Promoter for INHL
 Chairman of the Committee to Draft Bav for Commish
From: jwh@cs.bham.ac.uk (James Hawtin)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: BRONCO: Is now RSA.
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:40:27 GMT
Reply-To: jwh@cs.bham.ac.uk
Organization: School of Computer Science, The University of Birmingham, UK

Well The ping times can be very good or very bad.... to discovery we get between 150ms 
on a good day and the worst I have played is 400ms which is appalling, Well I know of
20 or 30 people from Europe who play in the states watch the names uk nl ch il etc.
you will normally see 1 or 2 on discovery all the time. Well between 4 -12 pm GMT

If you want to be toast on a UK server then play at 5 pm GMT at netrek.cs.bham.ac.uk

Sorry about the insult but it seems that no one pays any attention in the US unless you insult them? This is quote wierd for someone who comes from the UK where we are nice all the time.... cough..... We do the same by being condescending. How many times have you been called SIR in a shop :-)

				James
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: farrow@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (J. Scott Farrow)
Subject: Re: NBR Proposal: Remote Option Window.
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 06:21:41 GMT

sherod@news.Colorado.EDU (Mad DDogg) writes:

>Proposal:  Let it be possible for someone to open an Option window
>for any player who does not have a .xtrekrc file.

>Discussion:  Something like sending the player

>R4 -> R3: (OPTION_WINDOW)

>opens a window on your screen in which you can set their options.
>Note this should only be allowed if the person does not have a
>.xtrekrc file so only the clueless are affected.  This would allow
>you to open various windows for them as well as assign them a rational
>key map, etc.  Surely everyone will agree that this is a good idea
>to combat clueless teammates.

>Mad DDogg

For both this proposal and the other one about the remote invocation of
a message window, there has to be a way to disable these for the clued
player. What if I want my message window off on purpose?

Worse yet, what if I like the default setup, or just happen to be playing
somewhere without a .xtrekrc file, and some jerk "remotely" changes my
shield key to be something else? There has to be a lockout for any such
"remote" features.

Scott
(aka Necron)

--
************* Repeal Amendment 2! - Shame On You, Colorado. ******************
J. Scott Farrow-Student SysAdmin/Programmer, University of Colorado at Boulder
Computing & Network Services, Boulder, Colorado, USA, phone: (303) 492-4428
Internet: farrow@spot.colorado.edu, farrow@cs.colorado.edu
Organization: Doctoral student, Mathematics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 02:30:57 -0500 
From: Erik Lauer <el0g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Lag and the standard on bronco (SC bombers rule!)
	<1992Nov20.045115.14328@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>

Funny, here is what I do when I joing a Bronco game, and my team does
not have people bombing or taking:


Generally:

If my team has more armies, I take.
If other team has more armies, I bomb.

If my team is near lps I ogg till some safety occurs.  I then bomb them
hard.  Then I play until we get some planets back.  After that I take
back a bunch, then bomb.

Sometimes I join and there are armies everywhere (a situation similar to
one you mentioned).  Then I bomb the other team flat, and start taking. 
Soon the other team should be down to its core...

I think most people undervalue bombing (although they do ask for someone
to bomb).  Unfotunately, generally only a good player will bomb.


Erik
---=
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Biggest Scum Ever
Date: 21 Nov 92 00:08:06 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Nov20.024337.29682@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> gdearing@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Gregory D Dearing) writes:
>In article <Bxzntr.Fv4@ulowell.ulowell.edu> oneill@cs.ulowell.edu (Brian 'Doc' O'Neill) writes:
>>In article <BxzF71.AoF@ulowell.ulowell.edu> oneill@cs.ulowell.edu (Brian 'Doc' O'Neill) writes:

>>Actually, I found him. The user is jimhsu@W20-575-85.MIT.EDU, and the names
>>he used were Sum Yung Guy and Papa Bear, and he used Harold, Bob RAleigh,
>>and several others to T-mode scum. He was a Commodore as Papa Bear, and a
>>Captain a Sum Yung Guy. Here is a complete list:

>[List of lot's o' characters deleted...]

>>His scumming came about starting at 6am on Nov. 14th, and went to 7:46am.
>>All his characters were deleted.

>[All his characters deleted?...]

>Wait a sec.  Exactly what did he do that was worth deleting all his
>characters over?  I've fell to scumming on a few occasions, just to have
>some fun and see what kind of stats I could get.

Heh - if they start deleting characters who have used more than one name,
then there will be a LOT of admirals who lose their rank.  As far as I know,
Balton and I are about the only people with very high rank who haven't name
scummed.

I usually see Rob in as only SpaceAce!, but I was assured a while back that
Balton was the only player who made Admiral on his original character.

Brian
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 02:41:27 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Screaming at the Sun
	<1992Nov16.051404.28879@wixer.cactus.org>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 16-Nov-92 Re: Screaming at the
Sun Felix S. Gallo@wixer.cac (7203)

> Well, no.  Were you around and reading rec.games.netrek during this time,
> or are you just making guesses?  During one of our freezes during which
> we had about five ships completely motionless at our planet, and during which
> we were typing "ack, frozen completely, pause" to the ALL board, someone --
> I originally accused Spaceman Spiff, but no, it was, I think, Exxon Valdez --

	I *do* remember the postings at the time.  You blamed Mergatroid, not
SS.  He said that he did not do it, and you actually appoligized.  That
was the last I heard on the matter.


> >	At the end of the game, they cleaned up while you were gone, much as
> >you did to TOFW.

> True.  Nobody's faulting them for that.


	You certainly did at the time.


> >	Randy said, simply, that if you continued to flame him, that he would
> >not play you.  You have said the same of TOFW.

> Again, wrong.  Randy and others said that our getting a rematch was contingent
> on us shutting up.

	This is probably the biggest problem with what you're saying.  Randy
very quickly agreed to a re-match with the 12AM captain.  He posted this
to RGN.  Several people continued to flame him (probably due to slow
news-feeds).  He said that if people continued, he would cancel the
match.  You responded with a very deliberate flame (not a slow news feed
-- it mentioned his post).

	You state repeatedly that you don't speak for HB, and that we TOFW
should ignore what you say.  As last I heard, you were team captain, and
minister of truth.  Who else should we listen to?



> >	I'm not trying to say that TOFW or CrackPot were *ALL* right.  I'm just
> >trying to say that there are some interesting parallels.  There are.

> Well, sure.  Hey, both games were also INL netrek games.  And all players
> were male.  And we all used keyboards at the same time.  Wow.


	Fine.  Keep your eyes shut.  
	The biggest parallel between HB (you) and CP (Randy) is that you both
refused to play a game to prove that your team is better, to make up for
a lagged out game thus calling your wins into question.  In both cases,
I was sure that the team that refused to play would win.  I don't
understand the attitude.

ZZnew guy
From: jxh@math.ksu.edu (James C. Hu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Sunday Night Hockey
Date: 17 Nov 1992 14:33:36 -0600
Organization: Dept. of Mathematics, Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: hilbert.math.ksu.edu

JGR@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Jim Reisman) writes:
>- There was some discussion of whether Goalie Pelting should be allowed.
>This is when a nominal twink can chase a good goalie from the net by
>constantly fighting with him, no matter the situation. I would like
>either an offsides rule, or having one assigned goalie be invulnerable 
>while (s)he is in the proximity of the goal. However, this has been 
>discussed before without reaching a consensus opinion.

How about a goalie box?
-- 
James C. Hu (jxh@math.ksu.edu), 1804 Denholm Dr., Manhattan, KS 66502
I speak for me, the whole me, and nothing but for me.  So help me me.
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:05:16 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: New INL scheduling proposal:(long..please read this, however)
	<By5sCC.4M.2@cs.cmu.edu><1eq4rmINN3d3@agate.berkeley.edu>
	<gf4DxdW00Voi41B4Jq@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<BATHURST.92Nov23114752@felix.noaapmel.gov>


bathurst@noaapmel.gov (Bill Bathurst) writes:
> In article <gf4DxdW00Voi41B4Jq@andrew.cmu.edu> "Brian A. Hixon" <bh1k+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> 
>    I don't know.  It just seems to me like the INL council is acting like
>    some sort of Supreme Dictator and that we don't kave any say in what
>    happens.  I would rather have the INL council act more like a
>    represenative body that listens to the members of the INL.(maybe sort
>    of like a democracy, hmmmm?)
> 
>    I commend Rob for posting and for letting people know what the INL
>    council is doing.
> 
>    Commodore Balinor
> 
> 
> I have asked for opinions on scheduling on a USENET post about a month to
> month 1/2 ago.  We "INL Council" do ask people what they think.  I also
> am of the opinion that the council members should be asking what the
> people in their school area think.  As an example Rob would represent
> CMU interests and Tom would represent Berkeley interests.
> 
> To say we have been negligent here would be false. 

Umm...did you actually say anything about the INL council or did you
just ask for suggestions.  Personally, I don't remember anything about
it (I read r.g.n daily and articles stay around for a week, so I don't
think it floated by).  I talked to some other people and they didn't
remember seeing either.  You may have made a post, but what was its
"visibility" .  Was it a long Re: thread you attached it to?  Did you
title it something like "INL: Scheduling discussions".  All the good
intentions won't help if you don't do anything to improve visibility.

	joe
	Purple haze
	Rorschach
	Lamb, Leg Of
From: krishna@kitty.ksu.ksu.edu (Krishna R Akkina)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: What is RSA?
Date: 18 Nov 92 06:11:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: kitty.1ee109INNue
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: kitty.ksu.ksu.edu

Could someone tell me what RSA is and how is it different from UDP clients.  Thanks in advance. (Email to me if possible at : krishna@matt.ksu.ksu.edu).`
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jasonp@oslts0.Prime.COM (Jason Pascucci)
Subject: Re: Neural Net cloak recognition
Organization: ComputerVision Services
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 01:20:55 GMT

Wow, sounds great...first useful thing I've heard neural
nets used for. I would have otherwise replied by mail, but
you didn't have a mail address in your sig, and
I doubt <news@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> would get to you...:)

So, which simulator did you use? Can I see the inputs?
I'd be interested in seeing if I could get it
to work under a few of the simulators in the erion
distribution...to see which does best...Kohonen,
Hard or Soft Competitive, or whatnot...I've never
come up with an interesting enough test to run them
through.

Did you take into account relative position, or simply arc...I 
usually shoot past the person I'm aiming at, which gives me finer 
control...I would expect a machine could use the same methods.

--Steele
--
Jason R. Pascucci
jasonp@primerd.prime.com
From: nlc@vulcan.xtel.co.uk (Neil Cook)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: NeXT netrek (NeXTrek)
Date: 20 Nov 92 13:34:31 GMT
Organization: X-Tel Services Ltd.

In article <1egc2dINNmr9@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, mcn@cwru.edu (Michael C. Neuman) writes:
|>   Well, it's just the 'plain vanilla' client. I'll be porting Hadley's client (and others) as soon as the time presents itself. (They'll prolly only be ported as RSA, however).

Howabout producing a NeXTSTEP 3.0 client? It can't be that hard surely... I mean the windowing
stuff is all in one module. Someone give me a NeXT and i'll do it myself :)

|>         Mike Neuman                mcn@b62103.student.cwru.edu

Neil Cook.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: isae@IASTATE.EDU (ISU Boy !!!!!)
Subject: SERVER: A question about the ``listening'' program 
Reply-To: isae@IASTATE.EDU (ISU Boy !!!!!)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 22:14:41 GMT

Hi all,
Is there a way to replace the listening program which you accidentally killed
without having to kill the daemon or evacuate the server? 
Yes, I want it to listen on the same port.
What I mean by listening program is startd, newstartd, listen, ntstart, etc.
Is this possible?

Thanks,
-Rony
 isae@IASTATE.EDU