HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,misc.education
Subject: Re: US education (was: D O E S   A M E R I C A   S A Y   Y E S 
   T O   J A P A N ?)
Date: 12 Dec 92 14:11:32 GMT
 <1992Dec11.012246.26987@news.Hawaii.Edu> 
 <1992Dec11.134953.11870@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>  
 <1992Dec11.194442.20815@news.Hawaii.Edu>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

Perot had the right idea when he said that teachers should be tested as
well as students.

But students need motivation as well.  When I was a sophomore in high
school (Kingston NY), I decided to start taking French as well as
German.  However, since students in our school system had to start a
foreign language in the eighth grade, I was in a class with mostly
people who were two grades below me.  I couldn't believe the attitudes
of most of these students.  They simply wanted to take the three years
mandated by the state and get on with their lives.

I'm all for putting the gifted students in a class separate from the
average students.  It would have helped me learn a lot more French in
class, rather than on my own time, which is how I learned a lot of the
language.  The class was so slow that I tuned out most of the time and
still got good grades.

Of course, foreign languages might be more exciting if we used the
Rassias method....

--Ted Schuerzinger
email: .zed@Dartmouth.EDU
"I should have realized it would be bad vodka when all the label said
was 'Russian Vodka'."
From: toddi@mav.com (Todd Inch)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,sci.electronics
Subject: Re: D O E S   A M E R I C A   S A Y   Y E S   T O   J A P A N ?
Date: 17 Dec 92 20:37:59 GMT
Organization: Maverick International Inc.

[This was posted to almost as many groups as I have in my .newsrc :-) so I
cut the list down to applicable groups for my comments.]

In article <Bz0HwE.FC2@news.cso.uiuc.edu> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu
(Brent Irvine) writes:

>The Press has been condensing and over simplifying the situation - as
>usual. It is easier to understand in 5 minutes that Japanese schools
>are "good" and American schools are "bad" than to give an objective
>view of the situation.

Yes, always take news reports with a large grain of salt.  I cringed
again this morning when they announced the possibility of telephone
caller-id coming to our area and said it would announce the caller's
*NAME* [wrong!] and number.  In the two small interviews I've given
newspaper reporters, both had blatent, obvious, and embarrassing
errors.  I love how they sensationalize "computer break-ins" and
"hackers" and gloss over details.  

In one of the recent reports, there was a big to-do over one
corporation's computer which had in actuality just had it's network
used to link to another machine - it hadn't actually been compromised
at all!

>It appears that the US education system to High School is not as good as
>similar systems in other parts of the world, BUT we base most of our
>judgements on dubious multiple guess test scores, which, no matter how

Yes.  My High School Electronics program, which had received completely
new, custom classroom the year I graduated, dropped the program only a
year later due to lack of participation.  The lack of participation was
due to (A) increased required classes leaving student with fewer
elective decisions and (B) lack of support/encouragement by
administration, who though football was much more important.  This
program, 11 years ago, was teaching digital electronics and had a
working microprocessor developement station and  TRS-80, which was more
than I could say about the state university I left to attended at the
time.

I firmly beleive that some industrial arts programs keep kids in school
and/or teaches them a trade who would otherwise drop out and/or work at
minimum-wage jobs the rest of their lives.

On a positive note, I can say they started a computer science class the
same year.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
From: lambino@cirrus.com (Dave Lambino)
Subject: bonehead???
Keywords: overseas
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:07:32 GMT

	What is it in our nature that allows us to let things happen
when we all know it isn't the right thing to do?

	I was looking through the Business section of the local
newspaper and what do I see? Another semiconductor shutting down and
moving its work overseas. Four thousand people will be affected by the
move. 
	Somewhere, somehow a movement has to get started to put a halt
to all this crap. If one is already in the motion would someone please
sign me up. This bonehead mentality of acceptance has to be put to
rest.

	Ideas anyone????

dave


Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
From: viviana@igor.tamri.com (Vivian Aldridge)
Subject: Origin of XMAS wreath and XMAS tree?
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 19:42:48 GMT

Hi,

Does anyone where and how the Christmas wreath and the
Christmas tree originated? 

Thanks!
Vivian
viviana@tamri.com


              .     .  .      +     .      .          .
         .       .      .     #       .           .
            .      .         ###            .      .      .
          .      .   "#:. .:##"##:. .:#"  .      .
              .      . "####"###"####"  .
           .     "#:.    .:#"###"#:.    .:#"  .        .       .
      .             "#########"#########"        .        .
            .    "#:.  "####"###"####"  .:#"   .       .
         .     .  "#######""##"##""#######"                  .
                    ."##"#####"#####"##"           .      .
        .   "#:. ...  .:##"###"###"##:.  ... .:#"     .
          .     "#######"##"#####"##"#######"      .     .
        .    .     "#####""#######""#####"    .      .
                .     "      000      "    .     .
           .         .   .   000     .        .       .
    .. .. ..................O000O........................ ...... ...




-- 
Vivian Aldridge

viviana@tamri.com
From: gaf5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Gail A. Fullman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Santa Dollars.......
Date: 15 Dec 92 14:07:30 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <Bz64EK.EMz@sneaky.lonestar.org>, gordon@sneaky.lonestar.org (Gordon
Burditt) writes:
>>I saw a red sticker at the local Safeway checkout counter that said
>>"It's real!" in big letters, next to a one dollar us note that had
>>Santa's pictures instead of late president George Washington.
>>It said the note is a legal tender, and bankable.
>>
>>They were selling it for $2 (the proceeds go to charity.)  Well, I
>>bought one as a novelty item, but I was wondering if one could get a
>>lot of these just walking up to the local bank?  And who/what decides
>>if Santa's picture is appropriate on a dollar note?
>
>I believe the US Treasury may tolerate such alterations to US currency,
>but I doubt very much they produce it.  I seem to recall some pennies
>where JFK's head was inserted facing Lincoln's head.  They'll get
>very mad if you try to alter the amount on the bill, though.
>
How can a Santa dollar be real US currency?  Only the US Treasury can print
currency.  I would think the only legal thing about it is if it is accepted by
Safeway.  Toys 'R Us did this:  They gave Toys 'R Us dollars for buying a
certain dollar amount of merchandise.  The consumer could then use these
"dollars" at (and only at) Toys 'R Us from 11/1/92 - 12/31/92.  Disney has
Disney Dollars which are only good at Disney.

I would think any currency printed by someone else and claimed to be legal
tender accepted anywhere would be subject to counterfiet laws.
-- 

------------------------
|   Gail A. Fullman    |
|   Manager - ADMO     |
|   Ext. 83113         |
------------------------
From: alanm@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Alan McGowen)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:08:06 GMT
Subject: Carrying Capacity and Sanity
Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA
From: jcollier@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU (John Donald Collier)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: What to call people from the U.S. etc.
Date: 16 Dec 1992 19:57:18 +1100
Organization: University of Melbourne
NNTP-Posting-Host: ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au

irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:

>American is just fine for me.  
>If you feel 'stepped on' by its use, I think it would be a personal
>problem! :)

Just like a Yank to say that :-)
-- 
John Collier 			Email: jcollier@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au
HPS -- U. of Melbourne		  	Fax:   +61 3 344 7959
Parkville, Victoria, AUSTRALIA 3052
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
From: elg@elgamy.jpunix.com (Eric Lee Green)
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:48:08 CDT
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,misc.education
Subject: Re: US education (was: D O E S   A M E R I C A   S A Y   Y E S
Distribution: world
Organization: Eric's Amiga 2000 @ Home

From article <1992Dec12.141132.5673@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, by J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger):
> Perot had the right idea when he said that teachers should be tested as
> well as students.

The problem is -- what test are you going to give that isn't bullsh*t?

I currently max out every available test of teaching proficiency. NTE,
ExCET, you name it. On the TTAS (Texas Teacher Assessment System), I scored
all the points for an "effective teacher", plus "EQ" points (Exceptional
Quality) for behavior management, positive learning environment, and
providing opportunities to learn.

I'll tell you flat out: I ain't no great shakes at teaching.

In fact, I barely manage to keep my head above water in the classroom. I'm
learning -- the kids are teaching me (via their reactions to my
instruction) -- but it will be two or three years before I feel comfortable
about saying that I'm a "good teacher".

Right now I'm at the point where I say that the tests are cr*p, and that
what we need to be testing are two things: 1) communication skills, and 2)
subject matter knowledge. Furthermore, not just any communication skills.
Communication skills with children of the target age would be what needs
measurement. I can communicate things with my 4th graders that I *KNOW* I
couldn't do with a 6 or 7 year old child. 6 or 7 year old children are
simply too alien for me (I *LIKE* 4th graders, despite the fact that it's a
pain teaching them how to work independently -- they're too used to being
spoon-fed by the teachers).

I can conclusively say that current and proposed tests just don't make the
grade. All of them focus on things that are irrelevant, or otherwise
they've been watered down so far (like the TTAS) that it doesn't really
matter what you do, you'll score okay anyway.

--
 Eric Lee Green  elg@elgamy.jpunix.com   Dodson Elementary
 (713) 664-6446                             Houston, TX
                "Kids are kids, no matter what"
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: The Swedenfinns seek official support from Finland
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 11:19:44 GMT

[ Article crossposted from soc.culture.nordic ]
[ Author was Jarmo Ryyti ]
[ Posted on Thu, 17 Dec 1992 06:57:11 GMT ]

An other attempt with better english...)

: This is a translation of the latest issue of Ruotsinsuomalainen (Swedenfinn)
:  of the 10.12.1992.
: 
: FOR THE MINORITY STATuS IS SEEKED SUPPORT FROM FINLAND (was the headline)
: 
: For the aim of the Swedenfinns to attain an ethnic and lingual minority
: status is seeked now official support from Finland.
: 
: The issue is taken on the agenda of The Committee of the Immigration and
: Refugee issues set by Finland's cabinet, (Suomen valtioneuvoston asettama
: pakolais- ja siirtolaisasiain neuvosto), who gave the declaration of
: the minority status made by the swedenfinnish organisations for the Finnish
: governement last friday. (4.12.92) The Committee of the Immigration and
: Refugee issues for their part received the proclamation of the minority
  status during the  Roots in Finland-festivities last august. 
: 
: According to the committee, Finland shall include the Swedenfinnish
  aim for the minority status into  the issues in official  negotiations
  between Finland and Sweden.
: 
: On the communication made by the committee is reminded prime minister Carl
: Bildt charactrazing the situation of the swedenfinns. Bild has given
  a statement that due to a long common history of the countries,
   finnish settlements in Sweden and great numbers of swedenfinns give
  a right to give a special status for the swedenfinns.
: 
: 
: Ps.
: My comments,
: 
: Very difficult to translate, because of byreucratical text!
 You should notice that Carl Bildt is a concervative. During the social
  democratical time swedish
: governements aimed only to assimilate swedenfinns by all means.
: As the peak of all swedish faschism Ms. Anita Gradin declared publicly
: "Sweden is monolingual and remains monolingual". She is a prominent
: politician in Sweden, normally you heard such speeches in South-Africa
: and in Nazi-Germany but Sweden is no exeption. Her speeches however did
: not rise international publicity. Source for the latest statement is
: an issue of Etel{-Suomen Sanomat, a respectful newspaper in Finland,
: issue of 11.12.92
: 
: Down with swedish faschism and oppression of the finns in Sweden!
: regards,
: jarmo ryyti
: 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:20:31 EST
From: Andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: SOMALIA INVASION?

In article <1992Dec11.195215.1@nickel.laurentian.ca>,
s1400070@nickel.laurentian.ca says:
>
>     Perhaps I should apologize for the quality of my earlier posting:
>CANADIAN FORCES ARE BETTER.  I had some trouble with my mailer and much of
>what I wrote was cut out somehow.  I hope that doesn't occur this time.
>     What I wanted to say in that posting is that you Yanks, in general,
>do not want to give any credit to any other nation in international
>affairs.  You conveniently leave out reference to the help provided to
>your army by several nations, Canada included.
>     My concern with the actions that you have taken in Somalia is the fact   t
>tha
>you are stressing the military side of the operation rather than the
>humanitarian side.  30,000 troops???  What the hell for.  And what is it
>with this bullshit storming the beach head.  Geeze, couldn't you arrive
>like any other nation ie.discreetly.  What ticks me, though, is that the
>pentaggon gives shit to CNN for covering the "invasion" live when it
>was damn well in their power to stop them from doing so in the first place.
>Its just that this show of bravado may actually do more harm than good in that
>focus has shifted from the humanitarian issue to the military invasion.
>
>                                         John
>

Are the Brits involved this time? Their only casulties in the Gulf were those
British soldiers accidently killed by Americans.
From: carl.camurca@travel.com (Carl Camurca) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: "Lazy" Americans
Date: 15 Dec 92 09:36:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Travel Online / St. Louis Online - St. Louis, MO
Reply-To: carl.camurca@travel.com (Carl Camurca) 

JH>|> >The problem with the U.S. educational system is that everyone is afraid
JH>|> >to put the blame where it lies.  The students are the fucking problem.
JH>|> >Lazy, don't-give-a-shit-attitudes are present among the majority of
JH>|> >students.

Jeff, since you seem to like simple questions, answer this one:

Why are the Americans "lazy"?

greetinx, Carl.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
                                                                                           
Xref: sparky soc.culture.usa:9261 misc.education:5380
From: J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,misc.education
Subject: Re: Tough Tests
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:11:05 GMT
 <Bz64Aw.FHv@news.cso.uiuc.edu>  <00724533037@elgamy.jpunix.com>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0b1@newshost.dartmouth.edu

But why the hell did these people need remedials in math and
education?????

--Ted Schuerzinger
email: .zed@Dartmouth.EDU
"I should have known it would be bad vodka when all the label said was
'Russian Vodka'."
Xref: sparky soc.culture.usa:9253 misc.education:5363
From: elg@elgamy.jpunix.com (Eric Lee Green)
Date: 16 Dec 92 13:27:38 CDT
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,misc.education
Subject: Re: US education (was: D O E S   A M E R I C A   S A Y   Y E S
Distribution: world
Organization: Eric's Amiga 2000 @ Home

From article <1992Dec15.160138.27211@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, by J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger):
> In article <00724380488@elgamy.jpunix.com>
> elg@elgamy.jpunix.com (Eric Lee Green) writes:
>> From article <1992Dec12.141132.5673@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, by J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger):
>> > Perot had the right idea when he said that teachers should be tested as
>> > well as students.
>>
>> The problem is -- what test are you going to give that isn't bullsh*t?
>
> It's no more BS than the standardized tests students take.  And most
> teachers seem to be in favor of standardized tests for students.

I disagree with the idea of standardized tests for students, for that
matter, except as a rough measure of an entire school's quality. On an
individual basis, I much prefer to administer a diagnostic test which
identifies the student's exact strengths and weaknesses. Thus I know that,
e.g., the student knows beginning and ending consonant sounds but doesn't
know the "tch" and "gr" blends, the student knows short "e" vowel sound but
mispronounces words with the long "e" vowel sounds, student knows how to do
simple subtraction but not subtract with borrowing, etc....

Unfortunately, teachers are generally not provided with diagnostic tests of
this sort, and are uncomfortable with the idea of diagnostic teaching in
the first place. Not to mention that diagnostic teaching is illegal in most
school districts and states -- you must teach the "state curriculum" or
"district curriculum", rather than teaching to the individual children
those things that the child doesn't know.

--
 Eric Lee Green  elg@elgamy.jpunix.com   Dodson Elementary
 (713) 664-6446                             Houston, TX
                "Kids are kids, no matter what"
From: J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: LAZY, NOT!!!
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:20:03 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0b1@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1992Dec17.153730.29408@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
y41@aix320c.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (Jeffrey Hazelwood) writes:

> Students only do what is demanded of them.  In Japan, Germany and other 
> countries the demands are higher, so the students generally learn more. 
> The test scores are higher, but so are the suicide rates! I'll take lower
> test scores anyday. 

If your local system subscribes to soc.culture.nordic, there's a
discussion going on there about the suicide rates in Denmark, Norway
and Sweden, and the factors affecting the different rates.  There may
be other cultural reasions behind higher suicide rates in Germany and
Japan (eg. hara-kiri).

Remember: "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics."


--Ted Schuerzinger
email: .zed@Dartmouth.EDU
"I should have known it would be bad vodka when all the label said was
'Russian Vodka'."
From: carl.camurca@travel.com (Carl Camurca) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Amerika/Japan
Date: 10 Dec 92 19:19:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Travel Online / St. Louis Online - St. Louis, MO
Reply-To: carl.camurca@travel.com (Carl Camurca) 

MF>Anyone who's had the unfortunate experience of dealing with Japanese college
MF>students at work in their 'arubaito' will assure you this is not in any way
MF>unique to the US. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten the wrong amou
MF>of change (often as not not, too much rather than too little) while the
MF>sterling product of Japan's educational system laboriously rechecked the fig
MF>mentally before deciding, yes indeed, they DID charge me too much/too little
MF>had given me the wrong change, etc.

There was not a language problem? You know, it's harder to calculate,
when you have to translate the numbers first, calculate, then
re-translate.

MF> Add to that the resounding non-success i
MF>teaching English (most universities have English as one of their entrance
MF>tests, and as a result, most Japanese get AT LEAST 6 years of English, yet
MF>most who have lived there will assure you that the majority of Japanese cann
MF>carry on a conversation in English for more than a couple seconds) and there
MF>is no reason laud the Japanese system at the expense of our own.

ROTFLMAO! HOW long are you able to carry on a conversation in *any
foreign language, not to mention Japanese ?!?
Besides, the ability to speak English does not proof a certain standard
of education and/or intelligence (sic!).

MF>Mike

Carl.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * I'm not rude, I'm "attitudinally challenged"
              
Xref: sparky soc.culture.usa:9165 misc.education:5204
From: J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,misc.education
Subject: Re: Education (was: Re: DOES AMERICA SAY YES TO JAPAN?)
Date: 13 Dec 92 15:24:27 GMT
 <00724038179@elgamy.jpunix.com> <Bz64Aw.FHv@news.cso.uiuc.edu>  
 <justin.724223500@mik.uky.edu>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <justin.724223500@mik.uky.edu>
justin@nx30.mik.uky.edu (justin sullivan) writes:

[much about the quality of other countries' high-school students
deleted]

> You want more aptitude tests? Why? So colleges can raise their standards
> and deny even more people a higher education? The price of a college education
> alone automatically puts it out of the reach of tens of millions of Americans..

Most other countries make the college admissions requirements very
difficult.  Maybe if we had a rigorous high-school system we would have
better college students, but Americans seem to think that everybody
should have the right to go to college.  IMO most of the 'state
schools' seem to have much lower admission requirements than, say, an
Ivy League institution, and that's why our colleges generally have such
low-quality students.  For example, I had a friend get accepted to one
of the SUNY schools without even sending in one of the parts of the
application.  If all colleges had the rigorous admissions standards of
the Ivy League, they'd go out of business -- there simply aren't enough
students who meet the standards.

Anyhow, considering your arguments about how other countries'
high-school students are better than American college students, I
consider it a double standard on your part that we shouldn't raise the
admissions standards.

I also consider it an affront to my intelligence when you say "I would
put up any of their high-school graduates up against anu US college
graduate."  A lot of my friends, and many of the people I've met from
other schools through College Bowl are among the brightest people I've
ever met.

--Ted Schuerzinger
email: .zed@Dartmouth.EDU