Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Jesus: His birth and Miracles  
From: Hakki_Kocabas@kcbbs.gen.nz (Hakki Kocabas)
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:51:40 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

> >From: ahmed-shakil@CS.YALE.EDU (Shakil Waiz Ahmed)  
> >Subject: Re: ONENESS AND UNIQUENESS OF THE CREATOR  
>   
> >This is from Dr. Habib Siddiqui (RBNXHS@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com):  
> >This is in response to Arshad Hussain's ignorance of the Qur'an:  
>   
> >Where did you find in the Qur'an that Jesus was *not* born without a  
> >father, as you claim?  
>   
> Quran says Jesus was an ordinary man. He and his mother both used to eat foo
> All ORDINARY men have PARENTS. See below (B) for the verse.  
>   
> (A)...  
> >[From Quran]."Behold| The angels said: O Mary| Allah gives you glad tidings
> >a word from Him, whose name is masih, ^Isa - son of Maryam, illustrious  
> >in this world........  
   
> The mere fact that Jesus's father is not mentioned in Quran is INSUFFICIENT 
> suggest that he was born without father.  
  
Now where did you get this REVELATION, Ya Arshad!  
Are you the new undeclared - yet :-> Messenger of an undeclared God that  
we are unaware of its existance ?  
Who whispers such 'FACTS' into your ears :-> Devils or Satan ?  
Bring your Book, Man! Don't chicken-shit here and there, bring your complete  
Book if you are :-> Truthfool  
   
> > He will *speak* unto mankind in his cradle and his manhood, and he  
> >is among the righteous ones.   
>   
> Good news is that Mary's child will be HEALTHY and will live a long  life.  
>   
> >She said: My Lord| How can I have a child  
> >when *no* mortal has touched me? He said: So (it will be). God created  
> >what He will. If He decrees a thing, He has only to say "Be" and it is.  
> >And He will teach him the Scripture and wisdom, the Taurat and the Injil  
>   
> Mary was not married at the time of this revelation. She is telling angel he
> past NOT future( she did not say that no man would touch her in future).    
  
Now where did you get this REVELATION, Ya Arshad!  
Are you the new undeclared - yet :-> Messenger of an undeclared God that  
we are unaware of its existance ?  
Who whispers such 'FACTS' into your ears :-> Devils or Satan ?  
Bring your Book, Man! Don't chicken-sh*t here and there, bring your complete  
Book if you are :-> Truthfool  
  
> >.... (saying): .... I fashion for you the likeness of a *bird*, and I breat
> > into it and it is a bird, by  *Allah's permission*. I heal him who was bor
> >and the leprous and raise dead to life.....  
>   
> Quran says plainly that those who DIE are NOT sent back: 39:42.   
  
That IS true.  
  
> "Allah takes(men's) souls at the time of their death and those that die not,
> during their sleep. Then He WITHHOLDS those on whom He has passed DEATH and 
> sends the OTHERS back till an appointed term." Also see 23:100.  
> All these are related to giving spiritual life to the deads. That's what  
> prophets do.  
> IF Jesus had such God's power(with or without permission) then the verse   
> you mentioned below CONTRADICTS the above verse(s).  
  
NO IT DOESN'T, because you forget that Jesus is NOT dead yet, remember he  
had been raised. If you could use intellect then you could work this out  
why it is possible that Jesus will be brought back and he will die, like  
you and I will die as a human-being.  
   
> (B)...  
> >As to ^Isa's being nothing more than a mortal man, a Rasul, the Qur'an  
> >says: "The masih, the son of Maryam, was no other than a Rasul, messengers 
> >(the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a  
> >saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how Allah  
> >does make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are turned  
> >away." (Qur'an 5:78)  
>   
> (C)...  
> >Arshad: you obviously are ignorant of these verses of the Qur'an or you  
> >are deliberately trying to mislead Muslims with your erroneous views   
> >concerning ^Isa (AWS).   
> >I, however, do see a parallel in your views with those of deviant groups li
> >Qadiani/Ahmedi sect, who are not part of Islam and are rejected by all Musl
> > as non-Muslims (the Qur'an itself is sufficient, as I have shown here, to 
> >prove the Qadianis wrong).   
>   
> You are an 'intellectual' idiot.  
  
You are YET NOT EVEN a FALSE PROPHET...  
Bring your Book, Man..!  
  
> You wrote this letter to prove: Jesus was born without father and he used to
>                                 perform miracles.  
> Instead, You ended it by 'proving': Qadianis are wrong.  
>   
> Issue under debate is Jesus and his miracles, NOT Ahmadi or whether they are
> right or wrong.  What a height of prejudice!!!  
>   
> >In all sincerity, I therefore urge you to renew your faith in Islam and don
> >be fooled by misguided teachings of Qadiani/ Ahmedi sect.  
>   
> "For you is your recompense, and for me my recompense"(109:6)  
  
No, NO, NO! NO!  
You CAN'T chicken-sh*t around here like that and get away with it,   
NOW BRING YOUR BOOK!  
if you are :->TRUTHFOOL.  
  
> Arshad Hussain  
   
> >H. Siddiqui.  
>   
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