From: james@panix.com (James Britt)
Newsgroups: rec.music.industrial
Subject: Some words from a newbie
Date: 11 Sep 92 21:51:14 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC


This is a post from a newbie, intended to both help other newbies, and to
elicit help from the more informed readers.   Right off the bat I want ot
give warning that I'll be making attempts to classify, and perhaps
piegeon-hole, different types of music.  I know from other people's
posts that this may cause some flames; my hope here is clarity, and
I have no interest in imposing my particular way of sorting music.

In terms of recent history ( i.e., the last six months or so) I came to
industrial music by way of techno (some of you are cringing already)
which I heard about from some newspaper articles.  I went on a techno
spree, picking up some four or five complilation cds in about a three-
week period.  (I must say that I got some terrific help from the folks
at alt.rave on this.)  In the big picture, I recall back in my '70s
punk days when Throbbing Gristle and Caberet Voltaire started up,
and not being too crazy about it.  (Does "Warm Leatherette" count
as industrial?)  More about C.V later.

I liked techno, and still like it, but my prefernce was for the more noisier
pieces (like Messiah's "There Is No Law").  Some references in the
rave postings made me check out rmi, and after lurking and reading
enough posts I went and picked up some discs.

First up was Front Line Assembly's "The Inital Command."  Pretty cool,
I thought the noise were good, but the beat was a bit slow for the most
part.  There's also a certain sameness to the songs, as if the synths didn't
have too many knobs or something.

Next came Front 242 with "Front By Front."  This I liked better,
though there were striking similarities in the percussion.  Front 242
has a better, stronger beat.  "Never Stop" is quite good, but "Felines"
sounds insipid.  I partial to music without singing, and these lyrics
are one reason why.

Skinny Puppy, "Bites And Remission", was my third listen, and so far the
best.  The treated vocals sounded somewhat annoying at first, but this passed.
The percussion also sounded just like the other bands, but as I spent
more time listening to them I started picking up on the differnces.
I think this was a case of "new genre blur":  It all sounds the same to
the inexperienced.  I played Skinny Puppy the most.  My biggest complaint
with 242 is that they're too melodic.

(Let me point out that yes, I know that one album does not define a band,
so I know that I'm over-generalizing.  Still, it's all I have to go on
at this point.)

Just about this time I was vacationing in Vancouver and picked up a
magazine called "IndustrialnatioN."  It's a digest-sized mag with some
good stuff in it.  I particularly like the large number of record
reviews.  (I also read about another zine called "Technology Works".
I've mailed off for this one.)

IndustrialnatioN gave a great review to "Consumed", by The Final Cut.
This album turned out to be good, though not quite entirely industrial
as I have come to understand it.  With drum samples from Zeppelin (and
a bit of funk), it sometimes comes off closer to metal or rock, but still
pretty good anyway.  "U.F.O.T.M." is a good song, much closer to what
I would call industrial.

Finally I got "What Do You Know, Deutschland?", by KMFDM.  I like this the
best.  "Itchy Bitchy -Dance Version" is a great song.  The whole album
is good.  It has a muscular sound, sturdy and dark, with good noises
thrown into the mix.

Now, while reading the posts on rmi and seeing the name Cabaret Voltaire
pop up, I remembered that many years ago ('79?) I picked up what I
believe was the first Cabaret Voltaire album, "Mix-Up."  I refrained
from playing it because I had a memory of it being dreary, droning
and dull.  But I figured as long as I own it, I owe it to myself
to give it another listen.  I liked it!  Although it is usually slow,
the noise and textures work really well.  This was perhaps more of
what I had in mind, except for the speed, which may not be such a big
factor after all.

Finally, I got Skinny Puppy's "Last Rights" and NIN's "Pretty Hate
Machine."  I've only listened to them a few times, but Puppy I like
and NIN I don't.  I was really disappointed in NIN.  I'd heard
so much about them in rmi and figured they had to be primo industrial
groove gods.  But no, this is largely dance pop with minor synth noise.

I had heard "Head Like A Hole" on the radio a few times, not ever
being told who it was by, and would never have considerd it industrial.
But I imagine that to many people here, that's exactly what it is.
In my mind this would be the pop extreme of "dance industrial".  Front
242 are also dance industrial, less pop-ish though still melodic;
Skinny Puppy go further to the noise end of things while retaining
the dance part.  Same for KFDFM.  Some techno fits dance industrial
as well, with points (for me at least) for speed.

Speed dosn't seem to be a strong point of more "strict" industrial,
as it moves towards sonic collages.  I'm familiar with some of the
work of so-called "serious artist" types who produced "musique
concrete" as early as the '30's using tape recorders and assorted
electronic set ups, and made a fair amount of this type of music
myself in the mid-seventies.  While no one used the term "industrial"
then, I think it fits right in.  (BTW, I learned a lot about this stuff
by listening to National Public Radio's "New Sounds" show.  The host
John Schaefer plays a wide range of stuff.  The shows usually have
a theme of some kind, and it may not be to your taste, but I'm sure
you'll hear something at some point that will storm your head.)  I
like this on occasion.

Now, is ALL of this industrial?  Sure.  Imagine it from the point of
view of someone who only likes doo-wop.  Believe me, the differences
described here would seem pretty trivial.  But once you get into it,
you want a way to discern the fine points

This is why classification of types is very usefull.  It's hard to
talk about industrial when people may have widely differing
definitions of it.  I've gone out and spent a good amount of money
trying different things to find out what industrial is about.  I
have an idea of what I like, and want to find more.  But before I go
spend much more, I want to get some feedback from other listeners.
It's not enough to say, "Recomend some good industrial", when you
could be pointed to either Nine Inch Nails or Cabaret Voltaire.  Both are
good, but to different people.  But if I ask, "Tell me about noisy-but-
danceable-while-not-being-too-pop industrial", I'm little better off.
(Which, BTW, is exactly what I'm asking for here.)  Even if people
don't like something they might still mention it.  We get a bit away
from good/bad.  (Yeah, just what is "noise" is also a matter of
opinion, but this can be refined...)

Newbies like myself have an idea of what we like and may want to
get opinions from others, but we need some way of phrasing it.  That's
why there IS a group called rec.music.industrial.  It's a way of
suscinctly describing a type of music.

Well, I can see I'm rambling here.  To get back on track, let me get to
the point:  Who else sounds like Skinny Puppy or KMFDM while being less
tonal and perhaps faster and more grating?  I saw someplace a reference
to "techno-torture."  Is this a familiar term?  What bands play this?
It SOUNDS like it would be great music, but...

Thanks for reading this far, and thanks in advance to those who take
the time and trouble to reply to this.  I hope my comments help others
exploring this type of music get a feel for what's out there and what
it's like.

Stay busy,

James



-- 
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Just another speed-metal vegetarian anarchist cyberhippie Zen Socratic...
Diblo Rules!                                        Hack The Wetware!
james@panix.com  .............................................................