HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: michaelg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Michael Greenwald)
Subject: Re: Unbelievable Jump in GRE Score
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: na
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:55:22 GMT

zack@shorty.cs.wisc.edu (Zack Xu) writes:

>    My question is:  have any of you had such an experience?  

I haven't; my wife has.  She abhors standardized tests, she hates
multiple choice tests.  She can think of reasons why most answers
would be reasonable, and doesn't enter into the spirit of "what answer
do they >want< me to give".  (Luckily, she doesn't read the net, so
won't kill me for revealing >anything< about her standardized test
scores.  She is very opposed to them.)

When she took her SAT exams, years ago, her Verbal score was on
the order of 400 points below her Math score.  They (ETS) didn't
believe that the results were reasonable (I believe they wouldn't
report them), so they offered her a free retest (I didn't know her
then, but apparently they were >very< careful about the supervision in
the retest).  I think she bumped her Verbal score up by about 300
points.

She's an example of where SAT and GRE performance didn't correlate at
all (well, maybe simply "not well") with academic performance.  (For
example, her verbal skills are superior to her mathematical skills,
(she ended up taking no mathematics from high school until graduate
school), but she tests a lot better at math on multiple choice exams.)
Lest you worry that this scars you for life, I should tell you that it
generally works out in the long run; people who believe SAT's and
GRE's to be infallible yardstick generally assume that she's
over-acheiving.  Consistently.  Most people, though, are quite willing
to accept that you don't test "accurately", whatever that means.
Especially when they can see a disparity between your scores and your
performance.  And if your performance has been consistent enough over
several graduate schools and jobs, then the SAT's/GRE's/ etc... are
completely irrelevant.

It seems perfectly reasonable for me to believe that someone's scores
could change, cumulatively, by more than 300 in one year.  It also
seems likely that I wouldn't view that person's scores as accurate.
But --- as far as a lawsuit is concerned --- I'd bet that most
admission committees would >also< notice a major disparity between the
SAT/GRE score and the applicants record, and tend to discount the SAT.
So, I'm not sure how badly ETS screwed the poor student the first time
around.  But as I don't know the facts, I can't say for sure.
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Tai's Lies
Date: 6 Apr 92 09:51:30 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Scott Tai writes about "Tai's Lies" to All  [05 Apr 92 23:55]

> Oh, that's right; you're the great Scott Tai--you make the rules to suit yourself,

> and damned be those who have the chutzpah to disagree with you.  Of
> all the hypocricy in this world, yours takes the cake!

ST>  You have no room to talk, Mike Steiner. 

I most certainly do, shit-for-brains.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
From: hall@orion.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Philip Hall 283-4031)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: IQ and religious belief
Date: 7 Apr 1992 21:42:35 GMT
Organization: nasa-jsc

>To see the fallacy here, let's use a mathematical example,  so  as  to
>avoid  the  emotional  connotations of "god" or "higher being".  Let's
>make the definition: the natural number X is "higher than" the natural
>number Y iff X is equal to Z*Y for some natural number Z > 1.

>Thus 12 is higher than 2, 3, 4, and 6, but it is not higher than 5, 7,
>8, etc.  All the integers are higher than 1, of course.

>Let's now attempt to apply the above reasoning.  We observe  that  for
>any  small number such as 2, 3, or 6, there are higher numbers such as
>12, 30, and so on. Furthermore, for each of these, we can in turn find
>higher  numbers, such as 60 and 120.  But can we infer that there must
>be a highest number? Of course not; it is trivial to show that for any
>number there is one higher.  Just multiply it by 2.


Sorry, it just doesn't apply. Mathematics is a human artifact and the
laws of mathematics apply only to the universe invented and bounded
by that artifact. You can't make the assumption that they apply to
natural phenomenon. That would be equivalent to saying that there is
no tallest or oldest man.

PH
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Harsh Language in Recent Post
Date: 7 Apr 92 09:20:02 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


David O Hunt writes about "Re: Harsh Language in Recent Post" to All  [06 Apr
92 23:58]

>> and "so help me God" out of various oaths I'll
>> watch my language.
> 
>Which of these oaths have you felt a need to say?

DOH>  Actually, I had to take say that when I worked for the U.S. 
DOH> Army.

No, you didn't, David.  You always had the option of "affirming" rather than
"swearing," and if you affirmed instead of swore, you didn't have to say "so
help me God."   Even the president doesn't have to swear, but can affirm, when
he assumes office.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: IQ Statistics und SAT, GRE, GMAT
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:26:30 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <702878451.F00006@blkcat.UUCP> Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:
}Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG writes:
}
}MS>the Army GT has [a 98th %ile score of] 136 (however,
}MS>that is of the general population; 140 is the 98th
}MS>percentile for those people in the military).
}
}... Is that because folks in the military are smarter, or because
}they vary more widely, or what?  ...

It's because the military excludes people who score below a certain point,
thus skewing their population, albeit slightly, towards the high end.
i.e.:  The general population includes imbeciles in asylums.  Contrary to
popular belief (-:, the military doesn't.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@soldev.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405 {rutgers|pyramid|philabs|psivax}!ttidca!hollombe
From: harwood@umiacs.umd.edu (David Harwood)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: IQ of the sexes.
Date: 7 Apr 92 16:19:11 GMT
Organization: UMIACS, University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742

In article <34982@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> jc@sppip7.lkg.dec.com (John Chambers) writes:
|>||> In article <34899@nntpd.lkg.dec.com|> jc@sppip7.lkg.dec.com (John Chambers) writes:
|>
|>||> [...]
|>||> |>And while various other characteristics are sex-linked, there seems to
|>||> |>be  little  if  any  evidence  that the intelligence-related genes are
|>||> |>influenced by the presence of a Y chromosome.  But stay tuned...
|>||> \\\\\\\\\
|>||> I believe this is not entirely correct. Apparently there is some evidence
|>||> that certain spatial abilities (involving mental spatial transformations)
|>||> may be sex-linked. ...
|>
|>This is a good item for illustrating both the  possibilities  and  the
|>problems of purported claims of sex-linked intelligence differences.

[...healthy dose of caveman speculation and PC skepticism ...omitted ..]

\\\\\\\\\

Of course, I was only reporting some studies of possible sex-linked
mental differences. There are some, to be sure, within overlapping
distributions. The question is what do they mean, and what causes them.
There are possible evolutionary developments.
There are political issues.
And there are issues of scientific methodology: Do psychological studies
control for supposed relevant "enviromental" co-factors? Sometimes they
cannot (since life experience is involved).

(For example, we might consider the chess abilities of the Polgar sisters,
who have lived to fulfill the wishes of their vain father. By the way, I
wonder if they play blindfold chess? Anyway, they excel in male-dominated
competition at a kind of intellectual game.)
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Location of nearest group
Date: 15 Apr 92 05:08:54 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Jeanne C Hiesel writes about "Location of nearest group" to All  [14 Apr 92
19:55]

JCH> Could someone email information to me as to where the nearest 
JCH> Mensa group is for Rochester, NY?

There is a group in Rochester (they call the Rising Sun... oh, sorry)

The Mensaphone number is (716) 251-4167

The Locsec is G Michael Otto
175 Highland Pkwy, Rochester 14620-2544
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: /T/ MENSA's Not A 'Sport Team'!
Date: 8 Apr 92 00:44:31 GMT
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory

alopez-o@neumann.waterloo.edu (Alex Lopez-Ortiz) writes:

> -Intelligent requirements for Mensa are essentially the same as athletic
> requirements for sport teams.

This is not true.  You only have to qualify for MENSA once, while you
have to constantly prove yourself on 'sport teams' or you don't play.

---------
Scott Tai
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Who's in charge here?
Date: 7 Apr 92 22:30:05 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <14155@claris.com>, Mike_Steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
> In article <1992Apr7.153927.28024@cbnewse.cb.att.com>, gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
> > 
> > In article <702648459.F00001@blkcat.UUCP>, Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:
> > > I wrote:
> > > 
> > >  DA> If memory serves, he is the moderator (not in the "censor" sense
> > >  DA> of moderated newsgroups, but more like the "guy in charge")
> > > 
> > > phil%miracle@merk.com (Phil Hill) replies:
> > > 
> > >  PH> I am _NOT_ in charge here (I'll leave that job to Al Haig :->).
> > >  PH> Nor is Ed Bertch, nor is ANYONE.
> > > 
> > > Then is there nobody "empowered" to speak on behalf of the newsgroup itself?
> > 
> > That would be me, my son!  What is it that you wish to know that the
> > most intelligent person on this newsgroup may bestow His knowledge
> > upon thee?
> 
> How do you know that you're the most intelligent person on this newsgroup?
> Did you compare IQs with everyone else here?  Even if you were the most
> intelligent person on the newsgroup, how does that empower you to speak on
> behalf of the newsgroup itself?
> 
> Enquiring minds want to know.

Well, if you don't know, I'm not going to tell you.

> 
> (this message is smiley-captioned for the humor impaired--all others
> will smile even without the caption.) :-)

Better check.

GMS
From: moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: How to join?
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:29:17 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <1992Apr6.190257.19167@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, jlc5f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Jean L. Cooper) writes...
>Also, as far as I know, the 1-800-66MENSA number is still
>functioning.  If you want to be sure of getting an answer,
>just call 718-934-3700.

I called the 800 number shortly after the group started.  I didn't receive
anything until last Friday, so I guess they check for messages only
sporadically now.  They should monitor the line better or discontinue it.

-Mike
From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: /T/T/ Weekend Plans
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1992 21:42:10 -0500

tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai) writes:

 ST> Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner) writes:

 MS> Oh, yes; chalk up another Tai Lie (TM)--
 MS> his statement that he won't be on here this weekend.

 ST> I wasn't.  Look at any standard calendar--Sunday is the first
 ST> day of the week, and hence, doesn't constitute the 'weekend'.  :)

 Yes it does.  It's the front end.  B-)
From: steveb@smokey.UK.Sun.COM (Steve Bastiman - Sun EHQ - IR)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: RFI - PCM
Date: 7 Apr 92 16:03:42 GMT
Reply-To: steveb@smokey.UK.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: smokey.uk.sun.com

IMPORTANT - This posting is not entirely factually correct. I'm posting this in the 
hope that someone can help me gather and tie together threads of information regarding 
the POINTLESS CONTRADICTION MOVEMENT, its history, entry qualifications etc., etc.

Information gathered to-date :: The tenets of POINTLESS CONTRADICTION (PC) seem to be 
based on the following :

	- There are no rules - you make the rules to suit yourself.
	- Anything proven doesn't make it so and to say that it does is a lie.
	- Nothing instigates arguments better than assertion.
	- Assumumptions, inferences and implications repeated are facts.
	- Cyclical and/or pointless arguments are fun ! interesting ! exciting !!

Apparently, the movement was slow to take off, as the founding persons, true devotees
of PC, determined education, even to promote membership, to be contrary to the 
principles of the movement.

The movement was saved at the eleventh hour as the founders determined subliminal
education would only be an APPARENT CONTRADICTION (AC). The vehicle chosen for the 
movements message was a JINGLE carefully hidden within a musical they specially
commissioned and run at regular intervals in target areas.

I am unable to find the original, but I gather the 'lyrics' run roughly as follows :

Anything you can ...... I can ...... better	)
I can ...... anything better than you		)
No you can't	)				- Repeat ad-infinitum
Yes I can	- Repeat ad-nauseum		)
No you can't	)				)

Now I believe the jingle is performed as a duet in ACT 2, though it has ben rumoured
the best PCs can handle both parts, with only the assistance of a blank wall.

PC-AC - Errors and ommissions expected :: Usual disclaimers  :: 

Steve B.

P.S. I hate /T/2
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: hall@orion.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Philip Hall 283-4031)
Subject: Re: IQ and religious belief
Organization: nasa-jsc
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 21:37:46 GMT

>In that case, I don't understand.  How can there be a highest point without
>there being an upper limit?  There can be a highest known point, but that isn't
>the same.
 
>/207 143/207
>--  
>Mike Steiner

There is no implication that the current "highest" has reached a limit.
It can still be increasing.

PH
From: edw@sequent.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Who's in charge here?
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:14:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Apr14.161424.13770
Organization: Orygun Society For HUman Rustabillity Assessment

In article <1992Apr13.230954.20109@uc.msc.edu> eab@uh.msc.edu (Edward Bertsch) writes:
%Again, I am in charge of this newsgroup.  But I will not exercise my powers
%as a network GOD until I receive the weekly $50 payment from each reader
%and poster of this newsgroup.
%
%The Ed has spoken
##############################################################################
# 50                        Electonic Bazootos                            50 #
#                                                                            #
#                                                                            #
#                               +--------+                                   #
#                               | O    O |                                   #
#      As Good as a             |   l    |            In the Cosmic Muffin   #
#      Politition's Check       | ====== |            we trust               #
#                               +--------+                                   #
#                              Melvin Mensa                                  #
#            (Our Dear Departed but Imortalized Leader & Founder)            #
#                                                                            #
# 50                                                                      50 #
##############################################################################
Here is my 50                 Consider yourself the godhead :-)

Ed
-- 
        Support no cost easy access firearms for the Tourette afflicted.
 Daily Phrases :   A turnverein of gymnasts.    An insalubrious of incumbents.
           Sunol, Ca had a dog as mayor (2 terms) Live & learn !
          anybackbone!sequent!edw edw@sequent.COM  KA9AHQ 28.340
From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Harsh Language in Recent Post
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1992 01:19:20 -0500

Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG writes:

 MS> Even the president doesn't have to
 MS> swear, but can affirm, when he assumes office.

As Nixon did (being a Quaker).
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: IQ Stats
Date: 17 Apr 92 21:37:40 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr17.195919.14558@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>, jc@sppip7.lkg.dec.com (John Chambers) writes:
> In article <1992Apr16.175346.4601@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, rrp@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (rakesh.r.patel) writes:
> >
> > I know this kind of a question is not politically correct but I have to ask.
> >
> > Has an IQ survey ever been conducted to determine IQs on a national basis?
> > What I am trying to say is:  Has there every been an IQ survey for entire
> > countries (on a random sampling, of course) to determine the average IQ of
> > an entire country?   If yes, what were the results?
> would say is "Well, group G is known to be deficient in  S,  so  let's
> not even bother trying to educate them. Let's just exclude ALL of them
> from S classes."
> 
> It's rather like a doctor refusing  to  treat  a  black  kid  who  has
> cycle-cell  disease because it's so common in black people.  You don't
> see much of  this  sort  of  insanity  in  medical  circles,  but  the
> equivalent is rampant in education.
> 
> There was a recent study  that  purported  to  show  that  girls  have
> somewhat less aptitude for math than boys. This has had two effects on
> the people who heard  of  it.   Half  of  them  jumped  all  over  the
> researchers  for being sexist.  The other half think that there is now
> no reason to educate girls in math, because "scientists  have  proved"
> that they can't handle it.  There is no sign that the results (if they
> are valid, which will require further studies  to  verify)  will  ever
> lead to any improvement in math education for girls or boys.
> 
> Given this sort of reaction, it's tempting to say that we shouldn't do
> the studies at all, if they will be misused in such a manner.

Any study has the potential to be misused.  That's why lots of people
attack studies on an emotional, almost fanatical level.  And why lots
of people that attack studies come off like fanatics.  It scares 
folks that there's data out there that some half-wit could use to
mess up someone's life.

As for intelligence, people don't mind being told they're fat or 
skinny or tall or short or anything nearly so much as being told
their opinions are not valid.  And telling someone they're "unintelligent"
is tantamount to that.  People could say, "sure I don't know about X,
but I have 'common sense'."  You invalidate a person's belief system
and you invalidate them as a person.

We debate the validity of "IQ", and all the while the core of the debate
often boils down to the fact that it scares the crap out of some people
that there could exist a test that could measure their brain.  Who
could blame anyone for being scared of that?

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Who's in charge here?
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1992 21:38:24 -0500

gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:

 > What is it that you wish to know that the
 > most intelligent person on this newsgroup may bestow His knowledge
 > upon thee?

phil%miracle@merk.com (Phil Hill) replies:

 PH> How does one go about sending
 PH> small NUKES through the net.  I have a need to know.  :-)

Maybe, but do you have the proper clearances?  B-)

Xref: sparky rec.org.mensa:2604 alt.atheism:7922
From: willimsa@unix1.tcd.ie (Gavin Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,alt.atheism
Subject: Jarek!!! (was Re: Brainwashing (was Re: IQ and religious belief)
Date: 6 Apr 92 12:41:09 GMT
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin


Eight contiguous postings!!!!! Is this a record? :-)

--
         ______________________________________________________________
	|  A.G. Williams          |        Plus qu'il n'en faut.       |    
	|  willimsa@unix1.tcd.ie  |                                    |
	|_________________________|____________________________________|
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: /T/ MENSA Groups Nonexistent in this Area
Date: 7 Apr 92 07:57:24 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Scott Tai writes about "/T/ MENSA Groups Nonexistent in this Area" to All  [06
Apr 92 21:46]

> Perhaps the same reasons that you continue to post messages to a newsgroup
> of an organization you aer morally opposed to.  If you have problems, join
> the group run for office and get the group to change from within.  You will
> never succeed from the outside.  Short of that, ignore the group.

ST>  Okay, I tried just that. The Raleigh phone book contained no 
ST> listing of any MENSA group. Hard to believe, considering it is 
ST> home to the largest university in North Carolina and South Carolina! 
ST> Let me know how where the closest MENSA group is. (Chapel Hill 
ST> or Durham, perhaps?) 

The MensaPhone for your area is (919) 432-6616 at Fort Bragg.

The LocSec is Jerry Asher; his number is the same as the MensaPhone's

The contact in in Chapel Hill is Don Harrington at (919) 942-4068

There is no listing for contacts in Raleigh or Durham.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."