From: junglee@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Jung S. Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Corporal punishments & wife beating...
Date: 22 Jan 93 22:33:02 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

andrew@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Andrew Sung Hyun Kim) writes:


>Ms. Lee was implying that punishment should not be made by the
 ^^^^^^^

First, I should ask where you get the impression that I am female?  I
didn't say that I am female or male throughout my articles.  You just
assumed that I might and you put that in writing, didn't you?  And you
are telling me you are listening. How can a person fully understand
another with that kind of prejudice? 

>society, rather vigilantism maybe preferrable because it was male 
		 ^^^^^^^^^^^

Second, what I meant by "the society which males dominate" is that
something has to give to correct that problem. I never said in my
previous articles that we have overthrow or forcefully stand up
against the society to which all of us belongs. I never did. So next
time when you select your words, be very careful.

>in a sequel to "Death Wish" series.  Now, You are making references 
>to Martin Luther.  Who was never an adovcate of violence, he worked 
				     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^	

Again, where did I give you the impression that I am an advocate of
violence?  You are just making this up from what you preconceived from
my articles.  And you are telling me you are ready to listen. Give me
a break.

>within the system to bring about change.  Your reply implied that 
>such is not desirable or worrkable.  So, it was my way of saying, 
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Where did I say that? 

>"is this the only way you can think of to change the system?".  
>I hope the answer I will hear is more constructive.

You don't listen to me. I said again and again if you find something
wrong, let's do something about it instead of wasting time worrying
about your images. So now which is more constructive, moving people
like me to Amazon or each individual realize what has to be changed
and work hard toward it?

>>I have a better solution.... 
>>There is a very sparsly populated tract of land in 
>>Amazon jungle, in Brazile.   Why don't you and like
>>minded females go there and form a new nation that is
>>without prejudice, social classes, no avarice, etc...
>>You can create an Utopia there.  Then after you have
>>created such a perfect government, come back and enlighten
>>rest of us mortals how the society should be setup :)

>Notice, that this was meant to be humorous sarcasm.
>Now, my main point of original reply was following:

>>Thank you for coming up with a practical solution to
>>the problem at hand : don't leave the decisions to "The
>>society where the male dominates."  

>Again, I am at loss at words :)  For a person(Ms.Lee) who has
>consistently advocated for practical solution to the
>problem to come up with such a reply.

Again, what can be more practical than every member of the society try
to change what he/she believe needed to be changed?

>>I am still in listening mode... 

I am not running for the gov't office or in anything pulic life.  If
you don't understand my point of view, that's O.K.  with me. But I
mean, I explain my opinion well enough even for ten year old kids.
It's very frustrating for me to explain to narrow minded people. I
thought you are a better listener as you claim.

>Ms.Lee wrote:

I must tell you that this is my first time someone calls me Ms. in my
3 years Internet experience. How funny!

>Your suggested solution implied rebellion against the social system.

Where did I suggest rebellion in my articles? I said you see something
wrong, correct it, at least try. If you see a trash, pick it up. Is it
that hard to understand for you?  And if you see a gov't policy which
you think it's wrong, call your senator and express your opinion to
change it.  They don't listen to you, you gather people who have same
agenda and increase your voices in a democratic society. Is what I am
saying is rebellion to you?

>And you implied that you can not trust the judgement (of male
>dominated society).  Of course, I am not against a rebellion and
>revolution.  But, why go through violent changes when avenues for

What's wrong with you?  I didn't certainly mention anything about
rebellion or revolution or even violent move against the society or
anything close to that.  Somehow you are getting these wrong ideas
from I don't know where.

>is it constructive to say things like "kick them in the balls",
					^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 

Don't ell me you got these wild ideas from this. It's when I talked
about inaction by women side. Don't tell me just because of that, you
think of rebellion, revolution and violence and so on against the
whole society.

>or imply that social justice system (no matter how unjust at times)
>should be ignored?  Did he not try to work through the system?

That's exactly what I meant. Work through the system but don't rely on
anyone to do the job for you.

>As I have said in the past.  Result of Utopian dreamers often has
>been that they created hell on earth. 

But that doesn't mean that we cannot try. You cannot tell computer
chip designers not to develop any because computers might take over
human beings in future. Giving up the opportunity worrying about how
it will change the future is the worst thing you can.

>Peaceful orderly change is much more preferred than radical changes.
>This is what my ideal is.  This is one thing that has been sorely lacking
>in Korean politics.

To me, you sounds like if you cannot keep up with others, then it is
too dangerous and revolutionary for the world.  

>I think I understand, that is what the problem is :)

Do you really? I doubt it very much. 

>Andrew Sung Hyun Kim

Jung