HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fadickey@sacam.OREN.ORTN.EDU (Fred A Dickey)
Subject: Re: AOL for help (was Re: GEOS and PostScript)
Organization: Oak Ridge National Laboratory
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 08:46:08 GMT

Steven Besler (besler@geop.ubc.ca) wrote:
: 	I was also ripped off by AOL by not reading the
: fine print about calling from Canada.  Did anyone actually find
: the fine print which says you get charged for your "free" time?
: I lost $58 dollars for my supposedly free trial.
: 
: IF YOU ARE FROM CANADA PLEASE REALIZE THAT YOU WILL BE CHARGED
: OUTRAGEOUS SUMS OF MONEY BY AOL DURING YOUR "FREE" TRIAL TIME.
: 
: Steve Besler
: 
: PS perhaps we could band together and do something about this, like 
:    get a refund.  Anyone interested? Send me email at:
: 
: x4y092@rick.cs.ubc.ca
: 
: 

Are these surcharges directly from AOL or are these charges that Sprintnet
and Tymenet charge AOL for users who connect to their service from canada
via one of those network services?  

I use AOL at $9.95 for 5 hours a month and $4 non-prime/$8 prime each
additional hour.  I've never encountered any sur-charges...whereas, when I
had an account on CompuServe, it was like walking through a mine field of
sur-charges.  The entire service is laced with them.  The only thing that
costs me more than what I've mentioned is when I log in prime time...you
can't use your 5 free hours then.  They say this is due to
Sprintnet/Tymenet charges during those hours.

I know alot of people can't afford an online service.  But I think of all
the online services out there, Geoworks did pick the one that gives you
the best rates for the variety of services you get at those rates.  Not to
mention that AOL's client interface is based on the GEOS system kernel.  

Next time I'm on AOL, I'll ask them about the fine print for Canadians and
ask them why that's not in red bold letters at 18 point.

,^MrSpock^

Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
From: johnm@cory.Berkeley.EDU (John D. Mitchell)
Subject: Re: 24-hour info line notes
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 02:55:02 GMT

In article <C0JyrD.Jwx@ccsun.strath.ac.uk> clar27@ccsun.strath.ac.uk
("j.forssell") writes:
[...]
>Do you know John why Geoworks is reluctant to supply information like this
>electronically? Is it just because they don't want it to 'float around' and
>get in to wrong hands or is it a way to make sure that only the people with
>enough interest (to pay) will use it?

I talked with various Powers-That-Be at GeoWorks and they put it on *their*
list of things to look into.  There lists are longer than mine.  :-)  They
have yet to get back to this issue as there are plenty of things that are
more critical to the success of the company (obviously :-).

>About the cost for the SDK documentation, is that charged by GeoWorks to
>cover for their printing costs? I can`t see a reason for earning money on
>a thing like that.

Isn't this mentioned in the developers part of the FAQ?  If you purchase
the BETA SDK documentation you get over 3500 pages (in 5+ volumes) that
document the system *AND* each of the subsequent SDK BETA documentation
releases.  Do you have any idea how much limited runs of that many pages in
that many volumes costs?  It's a LOT.  GeoWorks is most likely losing a
good chunck of money but this is felt to be a very important part of the
process of making as much information available as possible.

>How about Macrosoft and IBM, do they supply similar manuals elecronically?

Microsoft distributes some things on CD-ROM because then they don't have
the cost of printing to worry about so they can get higher margins out of
their development packages and get people to buy more of their books
(because people want the printed manuals even if they have them online).

Hope this helps,
	John
	johnm@cory.Berkeley.EDu

P.S.	I speak for my self.  GeoWorks speaks for itself.
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
From: johnm@cory.Berkeley.EDU (John D. Mitchell)
Subject: Re: Cost of GEOS SDK
Keywords: I hope it's not like everyone else's!
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 07:13:09 GMT

In article <Jan.6.16.06.26.1993.13820@pilot.njin.net> birchall@pilot.njin.net (Shag) writes:
>Ooh, a new topic. :)
Yeah!

>I have here a software catalogue.  Somewhat to my surprise, it includes 
>GeoWorks.  More on that in another message.  It also includes the SDK's
>of several other vendors.  A few:
[...Obnoxiously expensive development packages deleted out of shock...]
[...]
>Having a hot product is a good way to get people to develop for you.  GEOS
>is a hot product, but a lot of poeple don't realize it yet.  Another good
>way to get people to develop for you is having a _cheap_ SDK.

Well, also a cheap platform for development helps a bit too. :-)

[...]
>Nobody ever said whether people who bought those docs got the SDK for
>free, either - is that still classified, John?

I seem to recall that someone mentioned something about this on the
GeoWorks SDK board on AOL awhile back but I can't remember the details.  I
believe that the gist of the message was that the people who bought the SDK
BETA documentation would get some kind of discount (of all or part of the
cost of the SDK BETA docs).  [How's that for fuzzy.]

Go wild,
	John "Sleep is a truly amazing thing" Mitchell
	johnm@cory.Berkeley.EDU

P.S.	My spouting off for myself.   GeoWorks speaks for itself.
From: birchall@pilot.njin.net (Shag)
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
Subject: Portability of PostScript files
Keywords: GEOS, PS, Fonts, Load, Disk, Lose.
Date: 4 Jan 93 19:32:42 GMT
Organization: Screaming in Digital, the Queensryche Digest


	I recently learned that PostScript files generated by GeoDraw (and
presumably other GeoApps) include a command to load the PostScript fonts from
disk.  This is a probable problem, as other systems would not have the same
font files as GEOS.

	Lines in the GEOS PostScript file like this:

		/CFL {mark FontDirectory {pop} forall
		/filenameforall where {pop (fonts/*)

are what I suspect is causing the problem.  Is there any way to print a
GEOS PostScript file (with text) on a system that probably has the fonts in
printer memory?  Since the file I was working with only used 4- and 6-point
Roman normal, bold, and italics, I would expect most printers to handle it
automatically.

Curious as usual,

-Shag
-- 
Shag                    | Operator, ShagNET | Editor of "Screaming in Digital" 
birchall@pilot.njin.net |  Rutgers / NJIN   |  The Queensryche E-mail Digest 
birchall@njin.bitnet    | dialup access for | queensryche-owner@pilot.njin.net
shag@most.other.places  | Burlington County | Anything Queensryche, every week
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
From: johnm@cory.Berkeley.EDU (John D. Mitchell)
Subject: Re: GEOS 2.0 release date?
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 06:53:39 GMT

In article <=7926w@rpi.edu> gilem@aix.rpi.edu (Michael R. Gile) writes:
[...]
>I applied for the beta program early last summer, and just recieved official 
>notice that I would be a beta tester (along with non-disclosure contract)
>in november.  This indicates to me that the full beta is beginning soon.

Hmm... Aren't you violating the non-disclosure contract?  Whether or not
the policies of GeoWorks with respect to information disclosure are
"right", "moral", "good", etc. if you have agreed to its terms then you
should abide by them.

John D. Mitchell
johnm@cory.Berkeley.EDU

P.S.	I am probably biased since I'm an employee of GeoWorks.
	I speak for myself.  GeoWorks speaks for itself.
From: birchall@pilot.njin.net (Shag)
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
Subject: Re: GeoWonks
Date: 9 Jan 93 18:05:01 GMT
Organization: Screaming in Digital, the Queensryche Digest

jeff@eng.umd.edu (Jeffrey Frey) writes:

>Is this what we have all become, then?

Better than GeoWanks, I s'pose.

Actually, since we study GEOS, we would be Geoslogists.

(Not to be confused with Geologists)

-Shag

-- 
birchall@pilot.njin.net, shag@glia.biostr.washington.edu, birchall@njin.bitnet
  Operator of ShagNet - Rutgers/NJIN dialup access for Burlington County, NJ
     Happy and informative user of a PPI 14400 FaxModem and GeoWorks Pro
       Editor of the Queensryche E-mail Digest - "Screaming in Digital"
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
From: dtaylor@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Douglas A Taylor)
Subject: Re: GEOS 2.0 release date?
Reply-To: doug-taylor+@osu.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:38:31 GMT

In article <1ibip1INNbge@golem.wcc.govt.nz> harvey_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz writes:

<FAQ reference deleted>

>There. We have 1st quater 1993 from Brian himself.  So, unless those rumours
>about aliens prove true, GEOS 2.0 should be here be end of march I guess.... I
>was just hoping that by now we might be able to get a better (read more
>localised) estimate of the DOA of GEOS 2.0.

The 1st quarter '93 date is the latest I have heard, but that was back
in September.  Things may have changed -- remember, Microsoft said NT
would be available in 4th quarter '92 (hee hee hee).  GeoWorks has
been much better than Microsoft about not marketing vaporware, but
even the most well-intentioned estimate can be wrong.

That same quote had the beta version being released by the end of
September '92, but now John and others are citing early first quarter
'93 as the start of the beta.  What's the deal, you ask?  I don't
know, and I wish someone would tell me.

BTW, DOA is often taken to mean "Dead On Arrival" (in the US, at
-- 
   Doug Taylor                         |   Nothing real can be threatened.
   The Ohio State University           |   Nothing unreal exists.
   doug-taylor+@osu.edu                |            - A Course in Miracles
From: pechter@ocpt.ccur.com (Bill Pechter)
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
Subject: Geoworks and SSTOR
Date: 31 Dec 92 23:36:13 GMT
Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp.,Information Services

I've never had any problems with SSTOR and Geoworks.  However,
I had to unmount my shared network D: drive to run setup on Geoworks
on it.

Out side of that it works great with 10net, SSTOR and DRDOSv6.

bill


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Bill Pechter, N2RDI           | The postman always pings twice.
        Concurrent Computer Corp.     | pechter@ocpt.ccur.com
        2 Crescent Place, Oceanport, NJ 07757 - Tel:908-870-4780 
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
From: wcs0830@ucs.usl.edu (Segura William C)
Subject: GEOS and PostScript
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern La., Lafayette
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 05:50:43 GMT


I have been having problems getting GeoWorks created PostScript files to print 
on a laser printer.  I printed one of the GeoBytes Newsletters to a PS file so
I could print it on a school Laser Printer (HP LJ II w/level 1 PS).  The printer is connected to a network of three Sun servers.  When I tried printing the fileon the HP it spit out error messages.  Some of these were "stackunderflow", "Bad command: roll" and then it printed out the contents of the stack.

I took the printout and file to Net support which verified that the file was in
PS format.  GhostScript choked on viewing the file.  I had better luck with
PageView.  PageView showed little on the first page, a little more on the third
and all on the fourth.  We examined the PS language in the PS file and found 
something was not right in the stack. 

I tried contacting GeoWorks through AOL but have had no luck.  I guess GeoWorks
is not that familiar with printing PS files on a Sun Network. 

Anybody have any insight?

Thanks in advance!!!!!

William Segura
wcs0830@ucs.usl.edu

Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
From: "Lee A. Mohon" <lam4@Ra.MsState.Edu>
Subject: Re: AOL for help (was Re: GEOS and PostScript)
Reply-To: <pcgeos-list@pandora.sf.ca.us>
Organization: Pandora Systems	
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:38:12 GMT
Originator: pcgeos-list@pandora.sf.ca.us

On Tue, 5 Jan 1993, Shag wrote:
> *sigh*  Not to bitch unnecessarily, but some of us - myself included - can 
> (for real) NOT afford to use a for-pay online service, no matter how helpful
> it is.  The barely-able-to-afford-a-phone-line-let-alone-toll-calls crowd. ;)
> I would be very interested in learning
> a) the AOL addresses of the Georeps (since I _can_ e-mail them through the
>    AOL <-> Internet e-mail gateway, without spending money that I don't have
>    to begin with).
> b) whether the AOL Georeps will actually _give_ assistance to non-AOL users
>    who mail them.  (if not, I understand, after all, it's not free for them
>    either that I know of, and they can't be expected to serve every user who
>    can gateway mail to them.)
> c) whether GeoWorks has given any thought to providing some other sort of
>    support (even just a UUCP e-mail drop would be better, for folks like me.

Shag,
 I know that the Georeps are designated to serve AOL in particular, but by
definition a customer representative is supposed to provide support for
those who purchase and use a product.  Thus, in my opinion, they *should*
be willing to help out people on the nets.  I don't know about others, but
I do own my copy of GW and do use it extensively, so I feel entitled. 
Besides I think it behooves them to get in the trenches with the people
who do use it for various purposes; this would be a great place to learn
the desires of the users and to hear ideas and problems of GW.
Lee Mohon.


Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
From: dtaylor@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Douglas A Taylor)
Subject: Re: GEOS Press Release
Reply-To: doug-taylor+@osu.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:03:04 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.225020.16537@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
...
>that allows for scalability and ease of use. More important for
>developers, GEOS offers a flexible user interface that adopts the
>appropriate "look and feel" of different devices.

Aha!  I was wondering why the GEOS folks invented that "Generic
UI"/"specific UI" stuff (other than for showing off, of course.  This
explains it.

-- 
   Doug Taylor                         |   Nothing real can be threatened.
   The Ohio State University           |   Nothing unreal exists.
   doug-taylor+@osu.edu                |            - A Course in Miracles
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
From: Harold Climer <HCLIMER%UTCVM.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Miscellany (Re: 24-hour info line notes)
Reply-To: <pcgeos-list@pandora.sf.ca.us>
Organization: Pandora Systems	
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:38:17 GMT
Originator: pcgeos-list@pandora.sf.ca.us

              John,
                   I reply to your message about Freeware, cost of upgrades
   etc. I was just hoping that since Geoworks has it's roots in the
   Commodore world that they would treat their users a little better than
   most Software Companies in the Ms-Dos world do.
                   I have no gripes about them charging $200.00 for the SDK
   manual. ( Seems resonable to me compared to other development documentation
   prices listed several days ago) I probably won't use it anyway. ( Do most
   of my programming in TRUE BASIC ( Multi Platform too))
                   MY biggest gripe is the same ones I had when I uesd GEOS 128
   It cost me money to  get info about the product after the purchase.
   Great porgram not so great support
                   Being a poor Grad student, I think all you highly paid
   and highy skilled engineers etc should remember that all software is not
   bought by MBAs working for large corporations, and that the price of your
   software might be a big chunck out of a small budget. This makes good
   low cost ( to the user) support a selling point for your sofware.
                   I am sure there a lot of old GEOS 64/128 users out there
   that bought GeoWorks Pro etc because they liked it on the old platform and
      saw the potential benifits of using it on a MS-DOS  machine.
   Please do not let us down.
                  This conference is a start in the right direction. You don"t
  have to tell us trade secrets, just  help  us use you product better.


                                           Harold Climer
                                           Physics Dept.
                                           U. Tennessee at Chattanooga

   * A loyal GEOS user from WAAYYYYY back. Hello to Sherman and Mr.Peabody*
From: birchall@pilot.njin.net (Shag)
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
Subject: Cost of GEOS SDK
Keywords: I hope it's not like everyone else's!
Date: 6 Jan 93 21:06:27 GMT
Organization: Screaming in Digital, the Queensryche Digest

Ooh, a new topic. :)

I have here a software catalogue.  Somewhat to my surprise, it includes 
GeoWorks.  More on that in another message.  It also includes the SDK's
of several other vendors.  A few:

Adobe PostScript Language SDK:		List $500	Street $320
Microsoft Windows 3.1 SDK 		List $350	Street $230
New Media Graphics Super Video Win SDK	List $500	Street $365
Slate Penapps Application Builder	List $995	Street $735

And a few language packages:

Borland C++ & Application Frameworks	List $750	Street $525
CA Clipper 5.01				List $795	Street $490
Intel 386/486 C Code Builder		List $695	Street $430
Microsoft Basic Pro Development System	List $495	Street $330
Microsoft Cobol for DOS			List $900	Street $595
Microsoft Fortran for DOS		List $450	Street $300
Zortech C++ v3.0			List $1000	Street $665

I don't need to emphasize the fact that those are some pretty big numbers.

I will say right now that I don't really know how much it has cost Geoworks
to develop 2.0 and the SDK, but I'm sure it's a lot.  However, since 
Geoworks is - as far as OS companies go - a "small business," I feel very
hopeful that they will make their SDK affordable for other small businesses,
programming shops with few employees, and individual developers.

Having a hot product is a good way to get people to develop for you.  GEOS
is a hot product, but a lot of poeple don't realize it yet.  Another good
way to get people to develop for you is having a _cheap_ SDK.

I don't know if Geoworks will be able to price the SDK (with docs, please)
below $300 list.  I really hope they do, since that would make it the
lowest-priced SDK out there.  I'd _like_ to see it at $200 (the favorite
list price for GW products), or even lower, but since the beta docs
reportedly cost $200, I can't see it getting much lower.  Nobody ever said
whether people who bought those docs got the SDK for free, either - is that
still classified, John?

So, now that we know where the "other guys" are pricing theirs, let's hope
"our guys" undercut them by an even bigger margin than usual. :)

-Shag
-- 
Shag                    | Operator, ShagNET | Editor of "Screaming in Digital" 
birchall@pilot.njin.net |  Rutgers / NJIN   |  The Queensryche E-mail Digest 
birchall@njin.bitnet    | dialup access for | queensryche-owner@pilot.njin.net
shag@most.other.places  | Burlington County | Anything Queensryche, every week
From: clar27@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("j.forssell")
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
Subject: Dos multitasking & GEOS
Date: 9 Jan 93 18:34:30 GMT
Organization: University of Strathclyde

I have been wondering why GeoWorks haven't been concerned with trying to
include DOS multitasking. Even Windows has got it to a very limited extent...

Well, now I read that MSDOS 7 (or was it DR DOS 7) should support DOS 
multitasking. That would solve the whole problem for GeoWorks!

I am looking forward to the day when I can run DOS software at the same time 
as I'm running Geos. 

Of course, the multitasking DOS will probably not be written in that compact and
elegant way we have come to expect from GeoWorks.


Cheers.
/Jonas Forssell
From: birchall@pilot.njin.net (Shag)
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
Subject: Re: New uploads to mir.eco.utexas.edu
Keywords: big files.
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:59:54 GMT
Organization: Screaming in Digital, the Queensryche Digest

birchall@pilot.njin.net (Shag) writes:

>GEOSTNT2.ZIP - "Tips 'n' Tricks 2" file, about 13 pages.  Not too much we
>		don't already know, but pretty pictures... ;)

>GEOSINFO.ZIP - Geos Info file, 197 pages, with separate index file.  Tons and
>		tons of summer-1992 vintage info about Geos, presented in
>		Question/Answer format.  I saw several references to features
>		which haven't been mentioned here (undocumented ones).

I've received 2 requests for uuencoded copies of these files.  In uuencoded
form, they are about 260k and 514k respectively.  I'm not particularly a
uuencoding wizard, and I've lost the address of one of the people who wanted
them (person in .nl, if you see this :)

Would it be acceptable for me to post them to this newsgroup?  Just curious,
since we don't have a full comp.os.pcgeos.* hierarchy yet (we'll need one for
v2.0, IMO)

-Shag

-- 
birchall@pilot.njin.net, shag@glia.biostr.washington.edu, birchall@njin.bitnet
  Operator of ShagNet - Rutgers/NJIN dialup access for Burlington County, NJ
     Happy and informative user of a PPI 14400 FaxModem and GeoWorks Pro
       Editor of the Queensryche E-mail Digest - "Screaming in Digital"
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
From: johnm@cory.Berkeley.EDU (John D. Mitchell)
Subject: Re: New uploads to mir.eco.utexas.edu
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:09:53 GMT

In article <Jan.8.09.59.53.1993.1558@pilot.njin.net>
birchall@pilot.njin.net (Shag) writes:
[...]
>Would it be acceptable for me to post them to this newsgroup?  Just curious,
>since we don't have a full comp.os.pcgeos.* hierarchy yet (we'll need one for
>v2.0, IMO)
[...]

I would personally very much prefer if posts of this sort *NOT* be done
until the group splits off into some kind of hierarchy.  There are already
nice, automatic, relatively easy to use, preexisting methods for people who
can FTP to get files from many big archive sites.  I'd just make sure that
the files in question make it onto those sites.  Why waste all of that
network bandwidth?

Thanks,
	John
	johnm@cory.Berkeley.EDU

P.S.	You know the drill.  GeoWorks speaks for itself.
From: birchall@pilot.njin.net (Shag)
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.pcgeos
Subject: Look and feel (Re: GEOS Press Release)
Date: 8 Jan 93 18:17:16 GMT
Organization: Screaming in Digital, the Queensryche Digest

dtaylor@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Douglas A Taylor) writes:

>In article <1993Jan7.225020.16537@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
>...
>>that allows for scalability and ease of use. More important for
>>developers, GEOS offers a flexible user interface that adopts the
>>appropriate "look and feel" of different devices.

>Aha!  I was wondering why the GEOS folks invented that "Generic
>UI"/"specific UI" stuff (other than for showing off, of course.  This
>explains it.

Yep.  Some months back mention was made here on the newsgroup about Brian
(at a conference) switching between the stock Motif GUI and a Macintosh
GUI, right in the middle of word-processing a document.  Of course, the
wording used above - ...adopts the appropriate "look and feel" of different
devices - doesn't just have to mean it can look like a different GUI.  GEOS
could - by my interpretation of the wording - adopt the "look and feel" of
an automated teller machine.  The "look and feel" of one of those info
kiosks you find at tourist information centers.  It might even mean that
GEOS could adopt a "look and feel" that utilizes a command-line interface
(though I don't think it would happen).

-Shag

-- 
birchall@pilot.njin.net, shag@glia.biostr.washington.edu, birchall@njin.bitnet
  Operator of ShagNet - Rutgers/NJIN dialup access for Burlington County, NJ
     Happy and informative user of a PPI 14400 FaxModem and GeoWorks Pro
       Editor of the Queensryche E-mail Digest - "Screaming in Digital"