HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Mike_Steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Anecdote/Analogy
Date: 7 Apr 92 19:30:35 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Claris Corporation

In article <michaelg.702661389@Xenon.Stanford.EDU>, michaelg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Michael Greenwald) writes:
> 
> "... But there was an evaluation committee that had to try to help us
> along, and help us ultimately decide which way we were going to
> separate the uranium.  This committee had men like Compton and Tolman
> and Smyth and Urey and Rabi and Oppenheimer on it.  I would sit in
> because I understood the theory of how our proces of separating
> isotopes worked, and so they'd ask me question and talk about it.  In
> these discussions one man would make a point.  Then Compton, for
> example, would explain a different point of view.   He would say it
> should be >this< way, and he was perfectly right. Another guy would
> say, well, maybe, but there's this other possibility we have to
> consider against it.
> 
> "So everybody is disagreeing, all around the table.  I am surprised
> and disturbed that Compton doesn't repeat and emphasize his point.
> Finally, at the end, Tolman, who's the chairman, would say `Well,
> having heard all these arguments, I guess it's true that Compton's
> argument is the best of all, an now we have to go ahead.
> 
> "It was such a shock to me to see that a committee of men could
> present a whole lot of ideas, each one thinking of a new facet, while
> remembering what the other fella said, so that, at the end, the
> decision i smade as to which idea was the best -- summing it all up
> --- without having to say it three times."
> 
>  --- From "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!"
>      copied without permission

I should hope so; if you actually got Mr. Feynman's permission, a lot
of skeptics would be nonplussed.
From: killer@robin.cs.hut.fi (Kalle Kivimaa)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: /T/ Cattell Culture Fair Test
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:44:39 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, CS-lab

In <1992Apr6.175559.25990@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai) writes:

>[ MENSA test score requirements ]

> Cattell                                                IQ 148
>I'm curious why the Cattell score required is significantly higher 
>( > 15 points) than for any other IQ tests.

Simply because they are different tests.  Cattell uses mean IQ of
100 points and a standard deviation of 24.  So two standard
deviations above mean is 148.

BTW, Cattell is the only test Mensa Finland accepts directly.
All other tests are accepted on a case by case basis.
--
************************************************************************
* The night sky over the planet Krikkit is the least interesting sight *
* in the entire Universe.  -- Douglas Adams, HHGTG                     *
************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,alt.atheism
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Stolen From Compu$erve
Date: 8 Apr 92 04:35:31 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


I saw this on the CIS Mensa forum, and thought that I'd share it with you all.

Dear friends and fellow citizens,
Today is primary day in several states (such as here in
NY). So I've prepared a little musical voter's guide.

(sung to the tune of "Swingin' On A Star")

Would you like to go to the polls?
Throw the dice and see how it rolls.
Cast your vote, like those other souls.
And would you like to vote for Paul?

Paul is a candiate who looks pretty cute.
In his little Speedo swimming suit
Some are worried Bush would kick his ass.
Since he's another greek who comes from Mass.
But if you don't think that history is all,
Then you might wanna vote for Paul.

Or would you like to go to the polls?
Throw the dice and see how it rolls.
Cast your vote, like those other souls.
And would you like to vote for Brown?

Brown is a candidate who gives lots of thought
Seems he's a guy who wasn't bought.
He looks around and sees the country sink,
And so he tries a different way to think.
Thus, the news folks convince us he's a clown.
And there's no chance for Mr. Brown.

But would you like to go to the polls?
Throw the dice and see how it rolls.
Cast your vote, like those other souls.
And would you like to vote for Bill?

Bill is a candidate who was out in front,
Till he got sidetracked by some dame.
And folks complaining that he dodged the draft,
Though maybe that just proves he wasn't daft.
But if you listen to the polls and have no will,
You're prob'ly gonna vote for Bill.

But what the hell, it's all smoke and tricks.
They've already put in the fix.
And we'll get Dan Quayle in '96!
Now matter what the paper says....
You have no voice in who's the Prez!
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
From: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: A REAL CHALLENGE: Fermat's last theorem..
Date: 7 Apr 92 01:42:14 GMT
Reply-To: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Organization: Project EOS - North Carolina State University

roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:

>In article <1992Apr6.020038.21270@ncsu.edu>
> cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA) writes:
>
> >(TO the best of my knowledge) Fermat, one of the great mathematicians
> >in history, discovered the following theorem:
>
>Well, let's say he *proposed* the theorem.

Eughh. what an atrocious choice of words (mine) .. hmm.. must have been
during that all nighter last week :-(

> > 3      3                    3 
> >a   +  b    can NEVER equal c 
>
>Actually, it *has* been proven correct for the special case (exponent =
>3) that you cite above.

Are you sure.?.  I just got mail from Derek Bell <dbell@maths.tcd.ie>
saying that       
it *had* been proved true, but for all n upto 10,000 *barring 3*.

If it's "been done", could you let me know when, & by whom .. (maybe
after you've
done your taxes :-)  I'd love to get a look at the proof (if it's not
too 
formidable).

> >Many mathematicians dismiss this by saying that there are plenty of
> >results that you cannot prove one way or the other.. I still
> >find the problem pretty interesting.
>
>Actually, I don't know of many mathematicians who think it's
>undecidable.  Now, the Goldbach Conjecture (any even number > 2 can be
>expressed as the sum of two primes) may be undecidable...

No, I remember reading about this .. maybe "many" wasn't an accurate
term. how's
"some"? They were responding to some critical comparisons of present day
mathematicians to the 'older kind'.. I don't wonder that they acted
defensively.
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: The Triple Nine Society: experiences?
Date: 11 Apr 92 06:32:31 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Paul Wilson writes about "The Triple Nine Society: experiences?" to All  [10
Apr 92 20:42]

PW> Anybody know what the Triple Nine Society (or the other 0.1% 
PW> groups) is like? Do they have enough members anywhere to actually 
PW> have meetings? If so, what are they like? If not, is there any 
PW> point in joining, other than to be able to say they let you in? 
PW> (Can you get a list of nearby members, and invite them over for 
PW> a beer?)

I understand that the triple nine society has about 500 members world wide,
and that the ISPE (which also is a 99.9 group) has about the same--maybe a bit
more.  Since I don't qualify for them, I haven't looked into them that closely.

PW> By the way, is there any point to Intertel? Seems to me that 
PW> the difference between the bottom half of the top one percent 
PW> isn't significantly different from the bottom half of the top 
PW> two percent---just a tiny fraction of a standard deviation, and 
PW> small relative to the noise and likely biases. (Nobody thinks 
PW> IQ tests are THAT good, do they?) Why bother making the distinction? 
PW> Or is it some kind of reaction against Mensa per se?

I have heard (but don't know for sure), that Intertel was formed by people who
wanted a group with a looser organizational structure than Mensa's.  I joined
it about five months ago, and have just been appointed the area coordinator
for the SF bay area.  I'm trying to organize something, and am holding our first
meeting/social tomorrow evening at my apartment.  So far, judging from the newsletters,
it isn't all that different from Mensa.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: hegenber@ganzer.ecs.umass.edu ()
Subject: do sat/gre scores correspond to iq?
Originator: hegenber@spock.ecs.umass.edu
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 00:20:47 GMT

I noticed that the sat/gre scores listed
in the mensa application materials were
about ten times the iq scores. Is this
a coincidence, or is my sat/gre score
actually ten times my "iq", for what
it's worth? Please, no hate mail, I
just wanted to know what it means.
From: phil%miracle@merk.com (Phil Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: IQ Statistics und SAT, GRE, GMAT
Date: 9 Apr 92 08:04:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: miracle.09Apr92030455
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

colinr@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Colin Rose) writes:
>
>           RE: IQ Distribution and SAT, GRE etc
>
>I am modelling the distribution of IQ at selective universities, where
>selective embodies SAT, GRE and I guess IQ tests. Does anyone have
>figures relating SAT, GRE or GMAT test scores with IQ scores. The 
>modelling is being done with Mathematica, and is to be published soon
>in a book on Mathematica, so it is quite important that the given numbers
>are accurate. 
>
>After searching through over a thousand messages in this group,
>I have managed to glean that IQ is the normal random variable with
>mean of 100 (by convention), and standard deviation somewhere
>around 20. If mensa membership is restricted to the top 2% of the 
>distribution, then these figures imply that the entry criterion to
>mensa is an IQ of 141. Is this the actual figure? I recall seeing a
>figure of 136 somewhere, and 132 somewhere else. If you can tell me the
>entry requirement, and if mensa IS restricted to the top 2%
>of the population, then I can work out the implied standard deviation.
>
>All help most appreciated.

IQ has a mean of 100 (by convention).  DIfferent tests peg a different number
for a standard deviation.  CTMM is around 16, Cattell around 24.  Mensa works
on percentile ONLY.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Hill                     | "All you people in TV land,           |
| Miracle Computer Consultants  |   I will wake up your empty shells.   |
| Email: phil%miracle@merk.com  |  Peak time viewing blown in a flash,  |
|  -or-  phil.hill@channel1.com |   as I burn into your memory cells.   |
| FAX:   (508)875-3297          |  'cause I'm alive." - Peter Gabriel   |
From: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: one simple question
Date: 11 Apr 92 06:36:04 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:143/207.1 - Sunnyvale Fido Conn, Sunnyvale CA


Craig Campbell writes about "Re: one simple question" to All  [10 Apr 92 20:42]

> A bash not responded to looks, to the outside world, like a bash to
> which there cannot BE a response, because it is the truth.  Silence in
> the face of accusation is tantamount to confession.

CC>  Not to all of the outside world. An accusation is just that. 
CC> Innocent until proven guilty, and all that. Some of in the outside 
CC> world can differentiate between being accused and being proven 
CC> guilty.

And many believe that if it goes unanswered, many people believe that the reason
is that there is no answer.

In a court of law, a plea of no contest (the equivalent of not answering) will
almost always return a verdict of guilty.
 
/207 143/207
--  
Mike Steiner
UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG
"The views expressed above are those of Mike Steiner only."
From: noonan@sonata.enet.dec.com (Costumes & Makeup & Kliegs, oh my!)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Issac Asimov
Date: 12 Apr 92 17:42:50 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <14167@claris.com>, Mike_Steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes...
> 
>Other notable Mensans include the Late Buckminster Fuller (honorary
>International President), Sir Clive Sinclair (Sinclair Computers), Don
>Pedersen (former president of Ford Motor Company), F. Lee Bailey, Theodore
>Bikel, Adrian Kronaur (SP?) (_Good Morning, Vietnam!_), and Jean Auel.



         And me.  One must never forget *me*!


         (*8


         .sigless E
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: /T/T/ Harsh Language in Recent Post
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:40:24 GMT
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory

Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner) writes:

> Tough shit, you cock-suckin, shit-eatin, mutha-fuckin, summ-bitch asshole. 
> You are so full of bullshit that the fertilizer industry has declared you a
> national resource.

> I have been meaning to ask you, when are your parents going to get married?
>  Oh yes, I almost forgot:  Yo mama cain't figger out which of those
dozen guys
> who paid her five bucks that night is yo papa.  I wonder though, did
she get
> her rabbies shots before or after?

You are one SICK, SICK puppy!  Your only goal seems to be to offend others...

---------
Scott Tai
From: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Issac Asimov
Date: 13 Apr 92 01:06:01 GMT
Reply-To: cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA)
Organization: Project EOS - North Carolina State University

phil%miracle@merk.com (Phil Hill)writes:
>noonan@sonata.enet.dec.com (Costumes & Makeup & Kliegs, oh my!) writes:
>>
>>In article <14167@claris.com>, Mike_Steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike
Steiner) writes...
>>> 
>>>Other notable Mensans include the Late Buckminster Fuller (honorary
>>>International President), Sir Clive Sinclair (Sinclair Computers),
Don
>>>Pedersen (former president of Ford Motor Company), F. Lee Bailey,
Theodore
>>>Bikel, Adrian Kronaur (SP?) (_Good Morning, Vietnam!_), and Jean
Auel.
>>
>>
>>
>>         And me.  One must never forget *me*!
>
> Uh! Duh! Who is you?
                    
(musical introduction..Nat goes)
UNforGETTABLE, THAT's what you is ...

> Oh! Yeah! The fifth letter of the alphabet!

D U H ?? funny, I thought it was the 21st, duh.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: shrum@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Richard Barry Shrum)
Subject: Re: What is the purpose of this newsgroup and Mensa?
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, CA
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 23:27:59 GMT

In article <2139.29E49EB4@kennel.FIDONET.ORG> Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner) writes:
>
>Richard Barry Shrum writes about "Re: What is the purpose of this newsgroup
>and Mensa?" to All  [09 Apr 92 05:42]
>
>RBS> Well, I'm not Mr. Tai, but I personally believe a person should 
>RBS> be granted membership into MENSA immediatly upon producing ANY 
>RBS> grade of "B+" or better, from any exam, test, essay, or pop quiz, 
>RBS> during the applicants entire academic career. In order to authen- 
>RBS> ticate the score, the grade must be written in red ink. The requirement
>
>RBS> of a "B+" will be waived, in the event the applicant *did* receive 
>RBS> a letter grade of "B", along with the teacher's affixed comment 
>RBS> of "showing improvement" accompanying the letter grade; smiley 
>RBS> face optional. Its the only fair way. 
>
>Rick, there should be one other way to get in:  Anyone named Lanny Poffo should
>automatically be admitted without any further evidence--smiley face manadatory.
> 
>/207 143/207
>--  
>Mike Steiner
>UUCP: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!207.1!Mike.Steiner
>INTERNET: Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG

Oh, man; busted again! But seriously, you are right. Lanny Poffo *is*
the world's smartest man, but Robert B. Heenan is right on his "heel"s.
 RS











Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: raphael@fx.com (Glen Raphael)
Subject: Re: Fermat's flunkeys (was Re: A Real Challenge)
Organization: FXD/Telerate, Mountain View, CA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 22:48:53 GMT

Mike.Steiner@p1.f207.n143.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mike Steiner) writes:

>Someone,somewhere once suggested that the school systems should be made private,
>and that industry should pay for the schools.  On the surface, this sounds like
>a good idea, especially if no particular school were sponsored by any particular
>company or industry.  However, I fear that if this happens that cirriculae would
>be be designed to produce secretaries, computer operators, programmers, applied
>scientists, business majors, and the like--and that arts, literature, history,
>and the like would be neglected.  Other people have suggested that only those
>who go to school (or their parents) should pay for schooling because they are
>the only ones who pay for it.  That philosophy fails to take into account that
>whenever a member of society is educated, the entire society benefits--either
>directly by the work done by the person, or indirectly because the person isn't
>on welfare (yes; I know that getting an education doesn't guarantee that someone
>won't be on welfare, but the more the education, the less changes of someone
>going on welfare), and therefore, everyone should pay to run the schools.

The person who benefits most from you getting educated is you.
And the person who benefits most from you getting a job is you.

Everyone else's benefit from your schooling and your work is miniscule by
comparison. As a result, the most logical person to pay for your schooling
is you, modulo businesses, banks and charities handling a lot of special
cases.

In a system where the schools were all private, there *would* be a lot more
specialization, but it would be tailored more to the desires of individuals
than to the needs of businesses. Right now, if you want the best possible
musical education you go to a private school of the arts. If you want to
learn a foreign language, you go to Berlitz. Private schools tailor their
courses to what the student wants to learn. Public schools, well, I don't
really need to say much about them... :-)

Oh and as for your first suggestion, if *no particular* company sponsored
any particular school, I can't see any benefit in that over the current
system where *no particular* taxpayer sponsors any particular school.
The advantage in private schools is that if you aren't getting the
education you deserve, you go somewhere else and the school goes broke
because it loses you as a source of funding.  Survival of the fittest
has improved quality in all other areas of business; why not try the
schools next?

(and then the post office, and then the cable tv companies, and then
the local telephone companies, and then the cab companies, and then...)

>/207 143/207
(^^^^^^^^^^^^--- what do these numbers mean?)
>Mike Steiner

Glen Raphael
raphael@fx.com
---
Ask me about Marrou/Lord BUMPER-STICKERS!
From: eab@uh.msc.edu (Edward Bertsch)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Who's in charge here?
Date: 15 Apr 92 23:35:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: uc.1992Apr15.233550.24874
Organization: Minnesota Supercomputer Center

In article <92105.194438JLM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, JLM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes:
|> In article <1992Apr13.230954.20109@uc.msc.edu>, eab@uh.msc.edu (Edward Bertsch)
|> says:
|> >
|> >Again, I am in charge of this newsgroup.  But I will not exercise my powers
|> >as a network GOD until I receive the weekly $50 payment from each reader
|> >and poster of this newsgroup.
|> >
|> >The Ed has spoken
|> 
|> 
|> 
|>  Oh Great All Mighty Ed
|> 
|>  I can't afford to send  .___
|> the 50 bucks,            |
|>                          |
|>  So I've built you a     |--
|> temple instead.          |
|>                          |___
|>                           ||
|>                           ||
|>                          /  \
|>                         /    \
|>                         |    |
|>                         |    |
|>                         |    |_____________________
|>                        /      \                    \
|>                       /        \                    \
|>                      /          \                    \
|>                     /|           \____________________\
|>                      |           |                    |
|>                      |           |                    |
|>                      |     _     |                    |
|>                      |    / \    |                    |
|>                      |   |   |   |                    |
|>                      |   |   |   |                    |
|>                      |___|   |___|____________________|


The Ed is pleased, and will reward you with wealth and many children,
all good looking, and above average!

But I could still use the $50
--

Edward A. Bertsch (eab@msc.edu)   Minnesota Supercomputer Center, Inc.
Operations/User Services          1200 Washington Avenue South
(612) 626-1571 work               Minneapolis, Minnesota  55415
(612) 645-0168 voice mail

	"Read _MY_ lips: I won't be voting for Bush in 1992"
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: The educational system
Date: 16 Apr 92 02:33:49 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <TERRYK.92Apr14222816@fenix.encore.com> terryk@encore.com (Terence M. Kelleher) writes:

>In article <45427@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:

>   This has been heavily discussed on other newsgroups, in particular
>   sci.edu and misc.education.  As long as those in charge of the schools
>   consider being with one's age group more important than learning, which
>   they do, nothing will be done.

>But, who is in charge of the schools?  They are mostly run by local
>school boards that we elect into office.  They are regulated by the
>state legislators, who are elected to represent us.  If we want to
>change the priority of our school systems, it seems we must be the
>ones taking action.

Technically, the local school boards have the power to make these 
changes.  Actually, they can not do very much.  In fact, they usually
allow the curriculum decisions to be made by the "professional educators",
and confine themselves to other matters, unless something highly
political comes up.  As late as 50 years ago, the changes started
by the social adjustment school could have been reversed.  Ten years
later, it could have been done only by massive changes.  Now, the bulk
of the teachers can no longer handle concepts, witness the inability of
the elementary teachers to learn the "new math."

But why should all parents have to send their children to schools with
the same priorities?  There is no more reason for this than for all of
them to purchase the same kind of food for their children.  This cannot
be done if the state, or even the local school board, can mandate that,
for example, children can not have access to even the outdated but honest
courses of a half-century ago, but must go through years of essentially
mindless drivel.  Now, I suspect that most parents would rather their
children be warehoused along and become cogs in the machine rather than
having the bright ones learn far more, and the stupid ones far less.
Before the 1930's, this was the case.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)