HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 22:33:48 EDT
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Homosexuality

Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
Phone: 588-6757
The reason why I asked the question about a promiscuous homosexual vs.
a heterosexual who is promiscuous is because someone said something about
a sexually active heterosexual still being better than a homosexual.  As
for homosexuality being a sin, isn't eating a cheeseburger a sin?  After
all, if I remember correctly, it's a sin to eat a cow cooked in it's
mother's milk (cheese).  There are many "sinful" things such as this that
go on today that are not considered sins.  Unfortunately, since I'm not
a bible scholar, I'm having difficulty finding many of these, even the
homosexual references.  Could someone please send me the chapter(s) and
verse(s) of the references to homosexuality being a sin?  One last thing...
whatever happened to offerings of animals?
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:15:59 CDT
From:         Jesse Irwin Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      The Saving Work of Christ

Dear everyone on Christia ;

Just an announcement : If anyone missed my 5 part series on the "Atonement of
Christ", I have all 5 short installments saved and can be e-mailed to anyone
who is interested.I wrote this a few months back.



Love in Jesus Christ ;

Jesse Irwin Carnes( notjic at lsuvm)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna Watson)
Subject: Re: Taming the Tongue and Controlling the Keyboard (2)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:42:44 GMT

[I've been reading Christia for about 2 months, and now getting around
to posting--I'm one of those horrible usenet people that many have been
complaining about (and I'm not particularly young, either :).]

In article <1992Aug13.181740.9692@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dzeigler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Daniel R Zeigler) writes:

>[a lot of valuable suggestions about how Christians should treat one
another on the net]

>Not all of this passage applies directly to Christia.  Christia is not, of
>course, a church, or even a para-church organization, so we shouldn't treat it
>like one.  

I think that, in many ways, Christia is not *a* church, but *the* 
church.  The church is the body of Christ; all who are Christians.
We are told that where 2 or 3 are gathered in Jesus's name,
He is among us, and Christia is a gathering (albeit electronically)
of Christians.  (I don't mean to say that everyone who posts to or
reads Christia is necessarily a Christian--of course there are 
non-Christians around on Christia, just as there are in our "physical"
churches.)

under the Mercy,

-- 
Seanna Watson   Bell-Northern Research, 
(seanna@bnr.ca) Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Opinions, what opinions?  Oh *these* opinions. | It's hard to seize the
No, they're not BNR's, they're mine.           | day when you must first
I knew I'd left them somewhere.                | grapple with the morning.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 12:03:47 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Lesser of Two Evils
              21 Aug 1992 06:59:44 GMT from <kilroy@GBORO.GLASSBORO.EDU>

Darren:

Try Planned Parenthood and the NEA.  They were the ones who first started
pushing the issue in the '70s.  (Of course, I suppose some individual
innovator must have thought it up in the first place, but I suspect
her/his identity is lost to history at this point.)

Love INC,
         --Kerry
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 10:58:34 -0700
From:         MARK DRAKE <DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU>
Subject:      accepting 'sinners'
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

>Besides, the person in question is drawn to a member of the same sex.
>That conditon is not acceptable for most christians.

I'm a conservative christian, and I must say I agree with you.  Christians
often DON'T accept others based on their particular temptations.  Fortunately
for us, Our Father in heaven DOES accept people in spite of their temptations.

You might want to clarify your comment above, Carl.


>  Christians may differ on many points, but there are some foundations that
>  should be the Only Right Christian Opinion.  When these opinions are lost
>  then the message of God is lost and those Christians that adhere to the
>  truths cannot accept those who disregard the truths as believers.  For
>  example, adultery is a no no and some  churches are beginning to not condem
>  adultery or fornification.  It clearly states in the Bible that these are
>  sins and not to be tolerated.  That certainly should be the Only Right
>  Christian Opinion on those two matters.  And there are others.


	Not to be tolerated in the CHURCH.

	As to foundations, I don't think you'll find a creed or statement of
of faith that says that one of the foundations of christianity is a prohibition
against sex out of marriage.  _ Christ _ is our foundation, and a relationship
with him is christianity.  Christianity is about the do's, not the don't.

Mark
drake@asuchm.la.asu.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 01:33:50 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      prayer/poem

Hi all:

I may have posted this before, but something tells me I should post
it again now.  (Don't ask me; I just do what He says.  :-) )

Heavenly Father, Lord Jesus Christ,
I praise Thee for the day just past
and for the day to come,
for I know tomorrow
is another day
of joy triumphant
in Christ Jesus,
another chance to prove my faith,
to witness my salvation,
to call upon the name of God
and worship at the throne of grace,
to demonstrate
to an unbelieving world
the precious love of Christ
and call it to repentence
in the name of God.

Lord, I thank You for tribulation,
for uncertainty,
for pain.
I thank You for the moments of humility
You force me to each day.
I praise Thy name for loving me,
for sending your Son
to take my sin,
for giving me the opportunity
to reflect the compassion of Christ
in the lives of those around me,
to demonstrate the gift of salvation
and offer the saving grace of God
to those in need.

Help me, Oh Lord,
to be continually in Your presence.
Help me to boldly seek Your face
in all that I do.
I desire, Oh Lord, not just to do
Your will,
but willingly, naturally, joyfully
to do that which is
Your will.
Not just to love others
but to do those things for them
that demonstrate that love.
Change my human heart, Lord,
and fill it with the sacred heart of Christ,
that I may know Thy will
in my life
and be a beacon to the lost and the lonely.

Accept, Oh Lord,
my sacrifice to You.
Take from me my heart, my life, my hopes, my dreams,
and give me only Your love to share.
Give me not that which I want
but only that which I need,
and give those things I think I want
to those who truly need them.

I consecrate to You, my Lord,
my life, my love, my work, my soul.
I dedicate to You all that I do,
all that I am,
all that I ever will be.
And I ask, Lord, that,
as I progress in my walk with You,
that You would show me the way.
Give me the words, the thoughts, the call to action
that I need to do Your will.
And give me the wisdom
to hear Your voice
and follow Your direction.

Reach into my life, my Lord,
and strip from me
my ego, that I would be filled
with only the desire to do Thy will,
the love of Jesus, Christian compassion,
the courage and stamina and power to do Your work.
And provide to me, Oh Lord, the tools I will need
to do Your will.

Thank You, Jesus,
for willingly dying on the cross for my sin,
for rising from the dead to conquer death for all time,
for paying the price for the transgression of Adam,
for forgiving me for my humanity
and allowing me the opportunity
to come into Your kingdom,
a new creature of the Spirit
while yet suffering in the flesh.
Thank You for giving me the chance
to serve You and to serve others
and for providing for my needs
that I might more fully
attend to the needs of others
not yet met.

These things I pray
in the name of Jesus,
my Lord and Savior,
my Truth and Power,
the Light of the World,
and the hope of all mankind.
In Jesus' name,
Amen.

                        Love INC,
                                  --Kerry
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Rev & Protoevangelium
Date: 18 Aug 92 09:08:57 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
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X-Acknowledge-To: <FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET>

Brad,

    I have enjoyed reading your comments on the interpretation of Revelation.
Even Jesus in the Gospels says that we can be His mother.
    I'll try to restrain myself here, 'cause I can get a little wild, but you
know the 12 stars on her head and the moon under her feet?  With the moon's
12 lunar months this can bring it to 24 which may represent the 24 elders
around the throne where we are enthroned with Christ the Lamb!  888 you know
who He is... 8 the resurrection/eternal life, in body, soul, and spirit, 8 +
8 + 8 = 24.
    Back down on earth... could you tell me if there is a modern translation
of the Protevangelium of James that you mentioned in print?

                                           Thanks, Peace, Zane.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:54:28 EDT
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         David White <BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Mom & Baby Update

Dear Friends,

As most of you know by now Brenda and I have a beautiful 9 pound baby girl.
I just wanted to let you all know that both are still doing fine.  The doctor
says they will both get to come home tomorrow (Aug 19).  Brenda's mother is
here to help us through the end of the week.  It is such a wonderful thing
getting to be a father for the first time.

Thand you all for your notes and prayers.

                             God bless,

                             David
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:37:22 EDT
From:         carol nemec <YA67@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      Southern US

I don't think social Christianity is particular to the South.
Wherever attending church is a socially aceptable thing to do,
the church can become a social gathering place.  We have run
into this especially in our parochial school.  It has become
the 'in' place to send your children.  That doesn't sound
too Christian, but the children are given Christian instruction.
Some of them   probably wouldn't otherwise.

Belonging to a church is an okay thing.  Being a Jesus fanatic
is not.  It's up to the Jesus fanatics to be examples to the
social butterflys, IMO.

It seems that a good way to invite people to one's church
would be to first inquire about their church, and if they
don't have one, you have an opportunity.  Most people that
attend church for the first time do so because someone has
invited them.  Those inquiring as to church affiliation
should follow through.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
CAROL NEMEC                             +
YA67@FERRIS                           +++++
FERRIS STATE UNIVERSITY                 +
BIG RAPIDS, MI 49307                    +   PHILIPPIANS 4:13
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From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Joseph
Date: 18 Aug 92 07:57:56 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
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X-Acknowledge-To: <FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET>

Tom,

    Nice to hear from you.  Send me Joseph's address and phone number and
I will try to contact him.
                                  Peace, Zane.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 11:48:27 CDT
Reply-To:     bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com
From:         Brad Kaiser <bradk%isdgsm@RTSG.MOT.COM>
Subject:      re: How important is the BIBLE?
X-To:         CHRISTIA%ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU@motgate.mot.com

Oops!  I misspoke in my earlier post, writing:

>> St. Paul speaks also of the Church as the "household of God" in
>> Ephesians 2:19ff, he says it is "built upon the foundation of the
>> apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the capstone."

>> Nowhere, however, does Scripture teach that it is _sufficient_.
                                               ^^

By 'it', I meant that Scripture does not teach that it, Scripture, is
sufficient.  In context, it may have seemed like I was saying that
the *Church* is not sufficient.  The Church *is* sufficient, in my
view, but the first thing the Church tells us is that we need
Scripture, because Scripture is the inspired and inerrant word of God.

Brad Kaiser
(bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com)

  "Hatred destroys.  Only love creates."
            -- St. Maximilian Kolbe, shortly before his arrest and
               martyrdom at the hands of the Nazis.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: nlt@gboro.glassboro.edu (N. L. Tinkham)
Subject: History of Marian devotion (Re: Mary & colour blue)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Glassboro State College
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:06:06 GMT

     In a discussion of Revelation 12, Brad Kaiser mentioned the identification
of the woman with Mary as one interpretation of the passage.  I wondered
whether Marian devotion is of sufficiently ancient origin that the author
and audience of Revelation would have had Mary in mind.

     Brad supplied several references to Mary from the 4th and 5th
centuries (together with catacomb graffiti of unknown but earlier age).
As a postscript, I'll add what I was able to come up with.

     The Protevangelium of James is the best evidence I could find of early
Marian devotion.  For those unfamiliar with it, it's a book that tells Mary's
story, beginning with her parents and ending with the birth of Jesus.  Tyson
in _The_New_Testament_and_Early_Christianity_ dates it at about 100-150.
The book was not widely accepted enough to become canonical.  However, its
existence says that at least some people (in particular, the book's author)
were considering Mary important enough to circulate stories and pious
speculations about her as early as the second century.

     J. N. D. Kelly (_Early_Christian_Doctrines_) mentions two other
writings about Mary from the same era -- the _Ascension_of_Isaiah_ and
the _Odes_of_Solomon_, but gives little further information about them.
He also mentions the early debates about Mary among the church fathers.


     These references are almost but not quite good enough for use in
interpreting Revelation; information from A.D. 100 is good, but information
from A.D. 50 would be better.  I've pretty much exhausted the references
in my own library; does anyone have documentation of Marian veneration
occurring early enough for the author of Revelation to have had Mary in mind
as a widely honored figure?

_____________________________________________________________________________

                                              Nancy Tinkham
                                              nlt@gboro.glassboro.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: 75furlong@cua.edu
Subject: Re:      Questions for educators at home
Organization: The Catholic University of America
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 20:09:03 GMT

In article <20AUG92.15571910.0025.MUSIC@DCCCDBIT>,         Yvette Traylor <YST1@DCCCDBIT.BITNET> writes:
>> Dear listmembers that are involved in education at home (or interested in this
>>
>> Many thanks to those that respond.  In order not to fill disk space for all
>> the listmembers, private e-mail is preferred.
>
> I would like to know the answer's to Renee's questions too.

As would I. Perhaps when she gets a decent response, Renee could post the
results?

Just a thought,
Alison
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Via:      UK.AC.SOLENT; 14 AUG 92 13:26:35 BST
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 13:26:00 GMT
From:         Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK
Subject:      RE: Sexual persuasion and sexual child abuse

Chris Reed's latest posting both saddens me and yet makes me want to
give thanks for his witness.

What he says is so true.  I understand the appropriate statistics show
that, like rape cases, the culprits are often known and trusted by the
person who they attack.

All should be taught how to deal with inappropriate sexual advances and
all should be taught what is unacceptable.

God bless you Chris and long may you grow as a survivor.

C.A.L.
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: 888
Date: 19 Aug 92 08:07:59 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
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X-Acknowledge-To: <FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET>

Hi Brad, thanks for your response.  888 is the gematria for Jesus Christ.

In holy icons you can see the Risen Christ surrounded by an octagon that
also demonstrates the significance of eight.  That goes for those who are
living icons as well.  We are to radiate His resurrection Life from our
spirits, souls, and bodies.

This octagon is seen widely in Islamic art as well.  Many of the early
artisans in the Islamic world were Christians and it wouldn't surprise me
if this was their subtle way of procaiming Christ on the buildings of those
they served.

Because the early Church was largely an underground movement during much of
its existence, they liked to use symbols or gematria to get information out
in ways that could escape detection.  So, we could say "666" instead of Nero,
or "888" instead of Jesus Christ.

                                   Peace in the Lamb, Zane.
From: laperla@byron.u.washington.edu (Juan Perla)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Beggars
Date: 19 Aug 92 08:48:46 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

-- 
Juan Manuel Perla                                    University of Washington
laperla@u.washington.edu             University Computing Services Operations
=============================================================================
"Ha!  Your Leaping Tiger Kung Fu is no match for my Frightened Piglet Style!"
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 08:13:18 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Did JESUS respect beliefs?

Dear All ;

Some questions ... hopefully somewhat penetrating.

First, "Did Jesus respect other's beliefs in general?"
Second, "Did Jesus respect Nicodaemus' beliefs when He told him '...and
you are a teacher of Israel'?"
Third, "Did Jesus respect other's beliefs when He told the Pharisees, 'You
are badly mistaken in this matter ... make a correct judgement'?"
Fourthly, "Did Jesus respect other's beliefs when He said to the Pharisees,
'You snakes ... vipers ... how will you escape condemnation to Hell'?"

Lastly, "Did Jesus respect other's beliefs when He said to the devil, 'You
shall not put the Lord to the test'?"
(Was Jesus telling the devil that the latterwas WRONG?)

Just some thoughts...............



Jesse Carnes
From: 78witherspoo@cua.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Values, politics, and CHRISTIA
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:41:06 GMT
Organization: The Catholic University of America

Dear All--

	Okay, now that the debate on "family values" is simmering nicely, how
about I throw a little tabasco into the mix?

	I have noticed that while various definitions of these elusive family
values have been bouncing around the net, I have noticed something that is
missing: An answer to the question of whose values are these anyway.

	I am a bit confused on where all the "family values" smoke is blowing
from.  Is it the fundamentalist right section of the GOP?  A mainstream
coalition of americans who want to return to a simpler way of life?  Or is it
the american media who have concocted another buzzword?  I really don't know.
Anyone out there have any ideas?

	My main point is that this is a very large and diverse country.  This
is also a democracy, one in which regards all citizens as "...created equal,
and endowed by their creator with certain unallianable (sp?) rights..."  There
is no way that every family can live and operate under the same set of values--
there are just too many of them!  Racially, economically, spirtually,
politically, and geographically this country is too diverse to encompass a
regeimented set of values.

	Will the candidate who is a proponent of "family values" get elected
into office?  Probably so, because americans wish to be fed nostalgic pablum
instead of dealing with the real ills of this country.  

	CHRISITIANS ARE AN IMPORTANT FACET OF THIS COUNTRY.  There is no
denying that.  BUT THEY ARE NOT THE ONLY IMPORTANT FACET OF THIS COUNTRY. 
Domination is not going to score any points with the american people.  

	It is time for a change, a change of leadership, a change of direction,
and a change of vision.  I'm not talking about a nostalgic way of looking at
the world and the nation as _both_ political parties tend to do, but an honest
look at what this country is, and how it can be fixed.

	Whew!  Okay, I'm through.  Let the debate simmer on....

Love and good walking,

Tom Witherspoon

78witherspoo@cuavax.dnet.cua.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 12:49:00 CDT
Reply-To:     bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com
From:         Brad Kaiser <bradk%isdgsm@RTSG.MOT.COM>
Subject:      re: This won't win me any friends, but...
X-To:         CHRISTIA%ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU@motgate.mot.com
              21 Aug 1992 10:32:27 PDT <9208211734.AA08485@motgate.mot.com>

Dear Friends,

Abraham writes (agreeing with Kerry):

>> 	Amen to this. Jesus said, I am *the* Way, *the* Truth and *the* Life.
>> Jesus did not say "I am a Way a Truth a Life". Well, there is only one way to
>> obtain salvation and to reach heaven and that is our Lord Jesus Christ. Any
>> other so called way is Anti-Christ however appealing their pursuasions
>> be.

Please open your Bibles now, and tell me who said these words in the Gospel:

       "Behold, I am the handmaiden of the Lord"

       "Do whatever He [Jesus] tells you"

Hint: it's not King Herod.

In Christ's eternal love,

Brad Kaiser
(bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com)

  "Hatred destroys.  Only love creates."
            -- St. Maximilian Kolbe, shortly before his arrest and
               martyrdom at the hands of the Nazis.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 01:49:23 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      Frequently Asked Questions

Jeff Achenbach asks about a file of Frequently Asked Questions. The
closest we have to this is the Library. Listmembers are encouraged
to place Essays in the Library. Often these are responses to
Frequently Asked Questions.  To obtain a list of current Essays with
brief descriptions, send the one-line message GET LIBRARY CATALOG to
LISTSERV@ASUACAD.

 Yours,
 James Kiefer
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