X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Approved-By:  Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.l-hcap
Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 17:27:37 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2584
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                          THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                               Issue # 2584

                           Monday, April 13, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******


                           Re: hearing aid prices
                            Re: Deafness and Such
                                 Re: Audism
                           Implant... Should I???
                                Deaf Culture
                                ASL & English
                             Medical Ergonomics
                            partial laminectomies
                           Info wanted: car rental
                           Looking for Van Rental


                                ******


To subscribe to the Handicap Digest mailing list or have your
thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to
Bill McGarry at any of the following addresses:


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	    (300/1200/2400 baud, 24 hours)
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                              Bill McGarry (Moderator)
                              (203) 337-1518



------



Subject: Re: hearing aid prices
From: Jack.O'keeffe@p0.f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Jack O'keeffe)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/26.0 - SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

 JZ>  My mother has problems hearing and so went to have a
 JZ>  hearing test.

I hope that your mother got a medical checkup first, John.
It is a real good idea to rule out medical problems first,
before getting a hearing aid.  This, in fact, is required by
a FDA regulation, but adults are allowed to sign a waiver.

 JZ>  It seems that she needs aids in each ear for a total
 JZ>  cost of $970.  I'm not in the business, but the price
 JZ>  seems a little excessive . . . My question is: is the
 JZ>  price really out of line

Yes, it's excessive.  But it is not at all out of line with
what people are charged for hearing aids.  One recent survey
reported that the average end user cost for ONE hearing aid
was $1000.  IMHO, the price of all hearing aids is excessive.

One should NEVER pay as much for the second aid as the first.
The cost of examination, fitting, etc., which accounts for
much of the dealers expense, is essentially the same for one
aid or two.

I recently talked to a gentleman who had paid $2000 for a pair
of in-the-ear aids which were totally unsatisfactory. And he
was unable to get the dealer, or the prominent nationally
advertised franchise company, to do anything for him.

 JZ> what kind of reputation does American Hearing Aids have.

I'm not familiar with the American Hearing Aids brand, John,
so I am unable to comment on their reputation.  The reputation
of the dealer is probably more important than the reputation
of the manufacturer.  Many hearing aids have become commodities,
almost like PCs :-)

Here are a few suggestions, and questions you or your mother
might ask:

Why does the dealer recommend this particular hearing aid?
(If they can't tell you, do they really know?)

Has your mother been given an opportunity to try other aids
to see which work best for her?

Is this the only brand of hearing aid sold by this dealer?
Or do they offer several different brands?

Does the aid work well with a telephone?  Have her try it.
(Some aids are equipped with a special device that helps
them work well with telephones.  It costs only about $15
extra.  Sadly, many dealers don't tell customers about this.)

Is this the best aid for your mother?  Or is it the aid the
dealer needs to sell to qualify for an promotional incentive?
(Some hearing aid manufacturers offer promotional incentives
to dealers to sell more of a particular kind of hearing aid.)

Does the dealer offer - in writing - a free or low cost trial
period, with return priviledge if the aid is unsatisfactory?
(This is required by law in several states, but unfortunately
not all.)

If the dealer will not guarantee the right to return an
unsatisfactory aid, LEAVE IMMEDIATELY.  Find another dealer
who will offer a free or low cost trial option.  Many will.

 JZ>  Unfortunately, she lives in another state and I can't
 JZ>  check it out in person.

Is there a chapter of SHHH (Self Help for Hard of Hearing People)
where your mother lives?  If so, she might check out the dealer's
rep with people who may have dealt with him/her before.

 JZ>  Is there any aids that are better than others, if so,
 JZ>  what vendors are they?

Sure, some are better than others.  I have my favorites, but it
is a highly subjective judgement.  It would be inappropriate to
suggest a particular brand or vendor.  Every individual's hearing
loss is different.  The aids that work best for me may not be the
best for your mother.  That's why it's so important to get help
from a qualified professional, preferably one who is NOT in the
business of selling hearing aids.

... Caveat Emptor!

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!26.0!Jack.O'keeffe
Internet: Jack.O'keeffe@p0.f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Deafness and Such
From: Jack.O'keeffe@p0.f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Jack O'keeffe)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/26.0 - SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

Hi, Annie.

Ret and I were thinking of you when we saw an interesting piece
in the local paper last week.  It tends to support much of what
our education experts have been saying about the deaf schools.

Christina, a 13 year old deaf girl, had spent her first eight
years of schooling in a special unit for children with hearing
impairments.  She was a shy, self-conscious child who could
barely talk.  Christina could, however, read lips well and
communicate fluently in sign language.

This year, her parents transferred her to a mainstream program
at the public Junior High School near here.  Her parents and
teachers are thrilled at the changes this has made.  According
to Christina's teacher, "The change has been like Dr. Jekyll and
Mr. Hyde.  She used to be very, very shy.  She was this quiet
little mouse who didn't talk to anyone or ask questions in class.
Now, I can hardly get her to stop talking.  Christina is very
popular in this school."

"It made a world of difference in her personality", says her mother.
In the deaf classes, she never had to talk because communication
was in sign language.  "The only time she got to talk was at home.
Now her speech is 100% better, her social skills are better, and she
has made a ton of friends".

And Christina, not to be outdone, has been teaching sign language
to her classmates, all of whom are hearing.  They even learned a
song in sign language which they presented at a school assembly
in February.

The full newspaper article fills almost an entire page.  I don't
want to break the net rules and saturate the echo with extensive
text files that will be of interest to just a few SilentTalkers.
Possibly I should Smail a copy of the paper to you.  Or scan it
into a text file and post it for downloading. (Provided, of course,
that "Perceive" can recognize the characters without an excessive
number of boo-boos.)

BTW, did you receive my recent netmail reply to you?  Xpress
screwed up your address again, but I caught it while still online
and yelled for Stu.  He was able to patch it up - I hope :-)

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!26.0!Jack.O'keeffe
Internet: Jack.O'keeffe@p0.f26.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Audism
From: James.Womack@f71.n382.z1.fidonet.org (James Womack)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:382/71 - BitStream, Round Rock Tx


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

The postig on audism was a sharing for interested parties regarding
reserach and articles related to deafness. It had nothing to do
with your relationship with your wife nor my personal perceptin of
the same. Such things ar none of my business for two reasons. !.
You married her not me. 2. I'm not a marriaage counselor. I will
respond to your post in further detail later. In the meantime, I'd
appreciate your not attributing statements to me that I never
made.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!382!71!James.Womack
Internet: James.Womack@f71.n382.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Implant... Should I???
From: Hugues.Blanchet@f136.n167.z1.fidonet.org (Hugues Blanchet)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:167/136 - Ab.'s Place, Montreal PQ


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

Hi again Karen!

KK> Your saying that a person has to really want the operation is
KK> exactly what other people told me at the Cochlear Implant Club
KK> International Convention in Vail!  Most of the people I talked to
KK> were not sorry that they had the implant, even though some had
KK> better success than others. My roommate at the convention was not
KK> totally satisfied with her implant, but talking to others helped
KK> her with tips to work at making the implant successful with
KK> listening exercises, etc.

Well maybe it doesn't work as well on some.  Two persons I met who both
had implants didn't understand me very well Karen!!! One of them, a man
of 52 or 53 who has his implant since more than three years.  Sometimes,
when I spoke to him, I had to repeat myself.  It was even WORSE with the
other one, a girl of 31!!!  She could ONLY understand her husband and
when HE talked to her, you should have seen his mouth doing all those
acrobatics!!!!  On the other hand, when THEY talked to me, I understood
better then they understood me!!!

Maybe I've seen two bad cases or examples of the implant?  Still, when I
first saw what it was all about (in pictures and brochures), I
ABSOLUTELY DID NOT want to have one anymore!

KK> My roommate I have known since we were both 9 years old.  We both
KK> went to a deaf school in Spokane, Wash..  We kept in touch ever
KK> since I moved away when we were 10.

That's a very long (and beautiful) friendship...  Even if you both live
apart, you probably know each other like two sisters.  I don't have such
a friend (but I certainly remember having a great one when I was 6-7
years old and for a period of 5 or 6 years...until we moved away and I
lost touch with him).

KK> Your saying that one should be sure that this operation is really
KK> needed is correct.  I think some of the failures stem from the fact
KK> that the implant would not help certain people as well as others.

Yes! And I think the two persons I met are a perfect examples of this.
One thing that is very weird thou is that both off them would go thru
the same operation again  because they both say that now they can
*hear*.... I think it's weird because what's the use *hearing* something
and not being able to UNDERSTAND what they are hearing!  Maybe this has
to be worked out by these persons but still, if I ever hear again, I
want to be able to understand without going thru a special adaption with
the device.  For me, it's as simple as that and I won't be satisfied by
less.

KK> One of the cochlear implant people here in Denver said he personally
KK> thought that in the beginning, the candidates were very carefully
KK> selected but later, the implant was applied to certain people for
KK> which it might not work as well, thus causing some 'failures.'

Same here in Montreal. They told me that the ones that would be
selected are those who would pass a couple of simple tests. Those being;
1 - the person REALLY WANTS to hear again and thinks that he (she)
cannot live a happy life without hearing at all.  2 - He (she) has to be
deaf (COMPLETELY DEAF) since not more then 15 years.

I'd meet second point... but surely not the first one!!!

 HB> Very frankly, how do YOU feel about this operation Karen?

KK> What I feel are very MIXED feelings.....I'm not sure if this is
KK> really needed, or if I have too much hearing for it to be very
KK> successful.  I would have to undergo testing (hearing tests, etc.)
KK> to even determine whether I'm really a good candidate or not.  To
KK> date, I have not done this.  So until this is done, there are no
KK> answers.

Well then Karen... you should probably wait until you have a VERY CLEAR
feeling about what you want.   If you think, very deeply inside your
heart, that you WANT an implant, well then you should go on with the
operation.  But if you don't feel that strong about it.... maybe it's a
sign that you shouldn't have one and wait.....

  It's only my personnal opinion.

Continued yet again... (Still tired? ...Karen!  Hey Karen!!!....
Kareeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeennnn!  Are you still there? ....
zzzzzz.....zzzzzzz... aw schucks... she's asleep... shhhhhh....) :-) :-)

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!167!136!Hugues.Blanchet
Internet: Hugues.Blanchet@f136.n167.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Deaf Culture
From: Wayne.Silsbee@p1.f222.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Wayne Silsbee)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/222.1 - N.W. Family History, Oregon City OR


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

In a msg of <04 Apr 92>, Kimberly Bobrow writes to Wayne Silsbee:

 KB> I don't recall the instigating post, but I was probably
 KB> bemoaning the fact that many deaf kids don't get much access
 KB> to ANY language.  ASL is denied to them in many cases, and you
 KB> can't call the signing they get in class a true representation
 KB> of English.

Yep, that was the gist of the message you posted, and I agree with
your assessment. Now, without starting from scratch, and, over the
next two months, re-losing our way... <grin>

I do believe that the only attempt, of which I am aware, to have a
truly manual English was stillborn. In answer to my question to
you, I don't believe that signed English will ever catch on with
any large group of people -- it's too burdensome. ASL streamlines
the language to suit the medium, and if ASL is not used, the
closest we'll see to a manual English is PSE. That's *my* opinion.
Without a doubt you have a different one... :)

 KB> I can see that a signed English could be useful for some
 KB> things.  There  KB> are *some* technical discussions *given
 KB> in English* that might be easier to interpret and understand if
 KB> the language wasn't changed.  I do think  that a native ASL
 KB> signer could give an equal technical discussion, I'm speaking
 KB> of interpreted talks.  Interpreters can only do so much, and in
 KB> technical matters they may not be up to moving the discussion to
 KB> another language, and a transliteration might be the most
 KB> understandable to a student.

It seems to me ("No", in answer to a previous question as to
whether I am fluent in ASL -- I've been around it a lot, but
wouldn't consider myself anywhere close to fluent) that ASL has
been built around visual concepts, and, at least until recently,
has been woefully lacking in communicating abstract ideas. How do
you see this situation?

 KB> I don't think it is ridiculous.  I do think it hasn't worked,
 KB> and proponents of it ought to take a good look at that fact
 KB> and stop talking about continuing to do the same damn stuff,
 KB> and blaming its failure on ASL. I do think the idea that ASL
 KB> has anything to do with the failure of Signed English is
 KB> ridiculous.

No, the blame does not lie with ASL. However, because ASL (as I
mentioned previously) is streamlined for the visual medium, it's
highly unlikely that anyone is going to go through the contortions
of a signed English when they already have some concept of a faster
way to do it. There isn't any "blame", but the existence of, and
the common knowledge about, ASL is going to "spoil" most, if not
all, people on the idea of manual English.

 KB> So, what are *your* theories, and how do you overcome the
 KB> past failures in your theories if they include things like
 KB> Signed English which hasn't worked up to this point?

I am not convinced that the teaching of English to a deaf child is
dependent on the amount of hearing. I believe a combination of oral
English along with ASL would be an excellent way to give the child
a basis for both oral and manual language while also giving parents
and teachers some history as to which the child is better able to
grasp. If a child can become "bi-lingual" (English and ASL), that
child would truly have the flexibility for both an occupation as
well as socialization. Say what?

TTYL

Wayne

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!105!222.1!Wayne.Silsbee
Internet: Wayne.Silsbee@p1.f222.n105.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: ASL & English
From: Wayne.Silsbee@p1.f222.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Wayne Silsbee)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/222.1 - N.W. Family History, Oregon City OR


[This is from the Silent Talk Conference]

In a msg of <06 Apr 92>, James Womack writes to Wayne Silsbee:

 JW> But to call it unstructured is an insult to the people and
 JW> culture whose language it is.

Why is it an insult? Are we thinking of two different things when
we talk about "structure" of a language? Kimberly and Patrick have
both jumped on me for this view, and now I have to deal with you...
:)  Ok, here's an example of what I mean by "unstructured".

A friend of mine was describing, in ASL, his trip to Hawaii. He
really enjoyed the beaches, and especially all the bikinis! Except!
Woman ('Y' shaped hand walking along his arm). I about died
laughing. This was ASL, was it not? yet he didn't use the sign
'fat', he didn't use the sign 'walk' -- yet it was perfectly clear.
Isn't that part of the language? In English I could have said it
many ways using 'fat' or 'humongous' or 'obese' or '.....'  But I
still would have needed to stay within the confines of English.

Are visual "pictures" no more a part of ASL than hand motions are
to English, and the language is actually quite rigid
("structured"), or does ASL allow these deviations from its
confines to make ideas easier to describe?

 JW> They didn't ask you to mess with what's theirs and not yours.

Whoa! I never asked to mess with ASL. It isn't mine. I'd like to
learn it better (but have other languages more pressing at the
time), but have never had any desire to "improve" it!

 JW> Now with SEE and ASL, the people involved took the motions and
 JW> some of the handshapes of ASL and hearized it into SEE, SE,and
 JW> other MCE forms. Then had the gall to cal ASL unstructured.

Again, I don't see where there is "gall" involved. <Shaking my head>

 JW> English tends to be the odd language out when you look at
 JW> word order of other languages. We say theirs is backwards
 JW> while ignoring that ours is the one different from the so
 JW> many "theirs." English is shot with exceptions so that it has
 JW> a contradictory set of grammar and syntax rules. Other languages
 JW> tend to rather consistent with grammar, gender references, and
 JW> meanings.

Absolutely. English has to be one of the most difficult (and
STUPIDEST) languages around. No argument here.

 JW> If one really wants to call language unstructured, English is
 JW> a prime candidate for it.

That's funny. With all these rules upon rules upon rules upon
rules, and yet you would call English "unstructured". That is
precisely why I call English "stuctured". See, I knew we had a
definition problem here. Shall we call a truce? But please answer
my questions above if you have any insight on them.

 JW> absurdity is just incredible. And it persists. But now, its beginning to
 JW> anger Deaf people. Very much.

...I still don't understand it... :-(

TTYL

Wayne

--
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Internet: Wayne.Silsbee@p1.f222.n105.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Medical Ergonomics
From: Allison.Cozzi@f3216.n161.z1.fidonet.org (Allison Cozzi)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:161/3216 - Computer Communicat, Concord Ca


[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]

-> In a message to Joe Chamberlain <22 Mar 92 15:11> Alan Hess wrote:
->
->  AH> I tried a chairback for support.  Unfortunately, it pushed my
->  AH> butt out too far, and in one day reopened by necrobutt because o
->  AH> how I sat.  I also didn't feel any
->  AH> straighter.  The back went byebye.  *adh*
->
->      That's what happened to me when I changed my seating arrangement
-> butts just grow use to a certain position and don't wannt to be foole

You're close. An explanation by a *good* medical ergonomicist (that's
*me*!) would explain it as follows: The goal of designing an adequate
seating system for orthopedically or neurologically involved folks is to
maximize the contact area to the appropriate seat cushion. The pelvis,
when held in certain positions, creates angles that are
counterproductive to the maintenance of healthy tissue and results in
the pressure sores you mentioned. Decubiti are aggravated (and often
caused) by moisture, heat and pressure. Elimination of any of those
risk factors will lessen the chances of tissue necrosis. So if
incontinence is a problem, then that needs to be handled (Tegaderm will
protect a suspicious *unbroken* skin lesion by keeping moisture totally
away from skin and can often allow it to heal over by itself. If the
skin is broken, there are other products to allow for healing while
still providing a moisture barrier to the affected skin.) If heat is the
problem, then regular "airing" of the area, unclothed, will help and
doing without any vinyl or rubber garments as much as possible as well
as sitting on plain cotton sheeting rather than a vinyl seat cushion  or
cushion cover which will reflect the body heat right back at your body
and aggravate the problem will help also. But if pressure from being
positioned on a worn out or inappropriate cushion or mattress will bring
almost certain tissue destruction. If you have an active decubitus
ulcer, you might mention an alternating pressure pad (APP) to your
doctor. It will require a prescription, is covered by all major
insurances (including Medicaid, Medical, medicare) to the best of my
knowledge and does wonders to alleviate undue pressure. They know that
if they don't treat a pressure sore correctly and swiftly, it will cost
them lots more in the long run. But for the long haul, it is best if you
can find your way into the hands of a good surgical fitter, orthopedic
appliance fitter, medical ergonomicist and/or physical therapist to have
a cushion designed that will hold your pelvis in a position that will
maximize the contact area, minimize pin-point pressure from bones
beneath, and avoid shearing and stretching of the skin.
     Does that throw more information that was needed into the ring? As
a newcomer to the echo, I truly don't want to bend noses out of shape by
offerring up information that wasn't asked for. However, after working
in this field for several years (and subsequent to my own injury), I
have seen so many cases of pressure sores, etc. that should never have
happened had the free availability of information been present.

                                                        Allison

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!161!3216!Allison.Cozzi
Internet: Allison.Cozzi@f3216.n161.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: partial laminectomies
From: Allison.Cozzi@f3216.n161.z1.fidonet.org (Allison Cozzi)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:161/3216 - Computer Communicat, Concord Ca


[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]

-> Now, my back is a smorgasboard of lovely scars.  I have two, almost s
-> side from the two partial laminectomy's when the L4/L5 disk ruptured
-> and re-ruptured...........

     Hmmm... the more I hear about the partial laminectomies, the more I
think they were a real bad plan! For certain, the recuperation from the
partials is shorter but I remember seeing the results of a study of
several patients who had undergone partial laminectomies. A terrifically
high percentage of them had to be re-done in a year or so since the
incompletely tampered with disc had leaked a substance onto the nerve
root and had irritated it, creating as much pain as before or the disc
material went ahead and fully ruptured. Does that seem to agree with
your experience?
                                                Allison

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!161!3216!Allison.Cozzi
Internet: Allison.Cozzi@f3216.n161.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Info wanted: car rental
From: Allison.Cozzi@f3216.n161.z1.fidonet.org (Allison Cozzi)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:161/3216 - Computer Communicat, Concord Ca


[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]

-> It just kept going through my head that standing in line for 45 minut
-> (about how long it took, I think) wasn't exactly accessability.
-> Personally, I think a disalogue should be started with the rental
-> companies. I just don't have time at the moment to start a new fire.

You might (or *someone* might) want to contact your State's version of
the Association for the Physically HAndicapped. (In California it is the
California Association for the Physically HAndicapped - CAPH.) They
routinely lobby and file law suits when necessary for just such things.
There may be some things in the works. Good group but I agree that it
does take some extra time and energy to fight all the fights that need
to be fought. I don't always have what it takes to make a stink either.
                                                    Allison

--
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Internet: Allison.Cozzi@f3216.n161.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Looking for Van Rental
From: John.Lynch@f1000.n261.z1.fidonet.org (John Lynch)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:261/1000 - Nerve Center, Pikesville MD


[This is from the Spinal Injury Conference]

Phil co you have to have a lowered floor and a lift, why not a
raised top.  Lower floors limit you to fords.  Not bad but limiting
when looking.  Good luck.  How is the UofM in a chair.  I went
there back in the late 60's as able bodied, and looking back, not
sure how they could adapt the georgianian archectecture to a
wheelchair user(sp?).  Goold luck.

Regards, John, U of Md '69

--
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Internet: John.Lynch@f1000.n261.z1.fidonet.org




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