From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: wearing symbols
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 02:21:22 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.010523.29473@spdcc.com>, rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

> 	Do you practice being clueless or does it come naturally to you?
> 	The point is (and if you miss this one, I promise I'll give up
> because there's no point in chasing after cardioencephalograms with
> zero variance),
   
  Fuck you Bob, this is uncalled for.

> that once the symbol is co-opted is HAS no meaning.
> In other words, what we use to symbolize our pride is lost.
  
  Instantly, unequivocably. The second that one of those blood
sucking co-optor steals one of our Sacred Symbols all meaning is
instantaneously lost. No chance at recovery, no chance of anybody
understanding where the symbol came from and what it represents.
Lost into the great abyss of Corporate America where nothing ever
returns. 
  Sheesh.

> 	I don't know how I can make it any simpler...  Maybe try
> this one:  Let's say that Burger King decides the Star of David
> is a REALLY NEAT symbol and starts marketing some product using it
> as a symbol.  Does this "cross-pollenate" with the Jewish community?
> No - it just makes that symbolism surrounding it confusing because
> it no longer claims the space it once did.

  Gun. Foot. Bang. Thank you for making my point. If Borgesa King
co-opted the Star of David it's meaning would be irretreivably lost?
What utter drek. You honestly think that the Jews wouldn't point
this out, and make certain that everybody knew *exactly* what was 
being co-opted? I guess they'd just roll over and play dead, by golly.
  Gad, I can't believe you've convinced yourself of this.

> 	The point of the pink triangle, the rainbow flag, and
> by association, the freedom rings is to give GBLO*-folks and
> GBLO*-supportive folks the ability to be visible and to recognize
> the presence of the GBLO*-community in the mainstream world.
> Once it is co-opted, you have no way of knowing if the intent
> is really pro-GBLO* awareness and visibilty or if it just happens
> to be there.  Granted this will happen no matter what, at a small
> scale, but the large-scale watering down by IM in no way respects
> nor helps why the symbol exists or what it stands for.

  So wipe everybodies nose in it and either reclaim the symbol or
create a new one. What is so difficult to understand about this?
  This is not the first time we've had this genre of argument,
and I continue to be astounded by how narrow your perception of
how cultures and societies blend together is. It is not a clear
cut thing, and cultural exchanges are part of the whole picture.
Just what degree this really changes things is unclear, but to
think that it doesn't exist or is not for the better seems like
a pretty untenable position.
  Like I've said three times before, if the meaning of the symbols
are lost because we didn't speak up, whose fault is that? If the
Jews just rolled over and let the Star of David become a burger
selling tool without a protest, whose fault is that? 
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
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