HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jcs@zoo.bt.co.uk (John C Sager)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: Why not discuss "real simulators" here?
Date: 9 Oct 92 11:43:07 GMT
Organization: British Telecommunications plc

In <HUOPIO.92Oct8135513@pyton.cc.lut.fi>, huopio@lut.fi (Kauto Huopio) writes:

> The articles so far in this group have been mainly about PC-based
> simulators. Why not share some ideas about the "big ones" ?

I guess that PC simulators are a lot more accessible to most people, so
that the chat is about availability, experience, etc. For most people
a ride in a "big one" is pretty much a dream. I did get to fly a
F-4 simulator at a local RAF base many years ago (interesting! no
visuals :-( but it handled ok at high speed. Stalled it in on finals
though...). I reckon I was lucky, & I don't expect to get the opportunity
to repeat the experience.

John C Sager					Mail:	B67 G18, BT Labs
Email:	jcs@zoo.bt.co.uk				Martlesham Heath
Tel:	+44 473 642623					IPSWICH  IP5 7RE
Fax:	+44 473 637614					England
 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: jamesp@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Jim Peroulas)
Subject: Genie
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 23:13:58 GMT


It seems that I can't find the number to subscribe to Genie and was wondering if
any kind soul would send it to me.

					-JP
From: hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: Available airports
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:37:29 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

From article <1992Oct15.022039.23975@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, by rwalters@nyx.cs.du.edu (Russell Walters):
> 
> In either FS4 or ATP, is there any way to travel from one fairly small,
> unknown town to another? Oh, for instance, Lawrence, Ks to Yuma, Arizona?
> Are these towns available on an additional disk, if at all, or do you
> enter them through a scenery editor?

For ATP (even thought same disk can be used for FS4), I bought a 
instrument pilot scenery disk IPS-W from SubLogic ($99).  It contains
ALL public paved airports west of the Mississippi, big and small (IPS-E
contains everything east).  So when you are in the air, you see airport
here, and airport there, and airports everywhere. 

Problem is that there is no other scenery.  This is because as the name
suggested, it is used for instrument only.  The runway length and direction
are correct, and so are the VOR's, DME's, NDB's, etc.  In fact, the
disk does not supply the map, they recommend you go buy the real Jeppesen 
charts (subscribe, that is, he, he, he).  I went and bought low-level
enroute charts just to obtain the frequencies of the radio nav's.
From: med2p@receptor.pharm.Virginia.EDU (Marc. Durieux)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: ATP commands
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:36:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: murdoch.1992Oct14.173650.28179
Organization: University of Virginia

Hi there,

I got a copy of ATP from a friend to try out, and I have a few
questions.  First, I tried running it on my old Leading Edge XT
with a Hercules graphics system, but somehow my screen remains black.
Sounds comes on alright, and I can quit the program with Alt-X, so
it seems a pure graphics issue.  I loaded it on another machine with
Herc, and it works OK.  ANybody had this happen before?  I run FS4
on the LE without any problems (except speed :).

The other thig concerns a few keystrokes that my friend, after
loosing the manual, can't remember.  How do I set the autopilot?
How do I get exernal views?  How do I set the radar map?

Thanks in advance,

Marcel
med2p@virginia.edu
From: bobc@natinst.com (Bob Conyne)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: FS4, Aces o' Pacific, Falcon 3.0
Date: 12 Oct 1992 16:23:34 -0500
Organization: National Instruments, Austin, TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: eagle.natinst.com

In article <1992Oct12.030414.21721@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> rwalters@nyx.cs.du.edu (Russell Walters) writes:
>
>I'm soon to get a 486/33 (to balance the ol' chekbook and do *productive*
>stuff on, dontcha know) and I'd like to hear any strong opinions on
>whether FS4, Falcon 3.0, or Aces o' the Pacific is the flight simulator to
>end all flight simulators.....or is there another that I don't know about.
>Russell :'.

These are all outstanding products in their own right.  FS4 is intended for
practicing "realistic" flying and as such does not have the kind of arcade
game shoot-em-up atmosphere of the others (except for a very silly WWI sim
which hardly warrants mentioning).  Real pilots will tell you that it's not
a very realistic simulation (I know, I've asked 'em), but it is an excellent
way to get a taste of IFR flying, VOR radials, COM radio usage, and the basics
of the instrument panel on a small plane. 

Falcon 3.0 is considered the tour-de-force of jet fighter simulators, and it
is very complex and rich in detail.  It is probably as close to flying a real
F-16 as you could possibly hope to get for less than $5M or so.  It is not
designed to teach the fundamentals of flying, however, and so will provide
no training in civilian flying techniques.  If you want to get the feel of
flying a jet fighter, this is the way to go.

On the other hand, there is something a little bit impersonal about jet 
fighting -- getting missile lock and pressing the fire button, then waiting
to see if your radar blip disappears.  If you want a taste of the seat-of-the
pants flying at close quarters that WWII pilots experienced, AOP is the way to
go.  This program is incredibly feature-laden.  There are easily two dozen
historical scenarios to choose from, each allowing you to assume the role of
Japanese or American pilots.  There is also a fantastic movie viewer option,
that allows you to customize your missions by changing point of view, etc. and
create a VERY realistic movie.  Career menus and lots of realism options
make for a thoroughly entertaining gaming experience. 

So, the bottom line is: get all three.  It's just a matter of time anyway.

--Bob
From: stauffer@src.honeywell.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Sound
Date: 7 Oct 1992 18:15:50 +0200
Organization: Technical Research Centre of Finland
Distribution: world
Reply-To: stauffer@src.honeywell.com

Joe Mazza asked about sound boards for use with F.S.4.0.  I use the 
SoundBlaster (the regular one, not the Pro).  The sound is beautiful - except
for one very minor problem.  On prop driven planes, I noticed something that
seemed distracting at first.  The sound did not change when I changed
pitch slightly to descend or climb just a small amount.  In a real plane
it would, of course, as loading on engine changes slightly.  I then checked
the tach.  Sure enough, it turns out the engine rpm is strictly a function
of power setting.
The funny thing is, I never noticed that before, with the sound through
the PC speaker.  My theory is that the sound used to be so unrealistic
that my mind completely discarded it as a "situation awareness" input.
But with Sound & Scenery Designer, and high fi sound, the sound is so
realistic that my subconsious now processes the input, and finds that
it doesn't jib with my visual inputs (particularly rate of climb and
airspeed indicators).  Anyone else notice this?
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck)
Subject: CHARTER: rec.aviation.simulators
Followup-To: rec.aviation.misc
Reply-To: geoff@peck.com
Organization: Geoffrey G. Peck, Consultant, San Jose CA
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:23:30 GMT

Welcome to rec.aviation.simulators.  This message, and companion messages
like it, will be posted to each of the new rec.aviation.* groups weekly
through the end of November, to allow people to view the charters of each
newsgroup and better understand where to post articles.

The charter of rec.aviation.simulators is:

****************************************************************************
*   Flight simulation, particularly discussions of computer-based          *
*   simulators ranging from PC's to workstations.	                   *
****************************************************************************

There are now a thirteen separate subgroups on rec.aviation; if the charter
above doesn't match the content of the article you're posting (or you're
following up), please consider one of the other groups as a more
appropriate forum:

    announce (MOD)    military      piloting        soaring
    answers  (MOD)    misc          products        stories (MOD)
    homebuilt         owning        simulators      student
    ifr 

A common question is "what should I do if an article spans the charters of
two or more groups?"  The answer is cross-posting.  If you have an article
which clearly crosses the boundaries of several groups, you should post a
**single** copy of the article to **all* of the groups.  Don't post
separate copies to each group.  Most modern newsreaders will display the
article exactly once to the reader -- in the first group in which it is
encountered and read.

If you feel that the replies should be directed to a subset of the groups
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If you are replying to a cross-posted article and your reply is germane to
only a subset of the original groups, please ensure that you check the
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all the groups in which the article was originally posted, try to ensure
that all the groups are listed in the Newsgroups: line.  Some older
newsreaders cause a reply to go only to the group which is currently being
read.

Use cross-posting sparingly.  If an article "90% belongs" in one group and
"10% belongs" in another, post it only to the first group.

						Geoff

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: erlingm@ifi.uio.no (Erling Mork)
Subject: Commercial airline sims (for PC?)
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:47:14 GMT
Originator: erlingm@holmenkollen.ifi.uio.no


I was wondering...

There are plenty of FS's out there for PCs and Macs (hereby refered to as PCs).
But they seem to be either fighter plane or small propellor, etc. simulators.
Why are there no commercial airliner sims? (or are there, and I haven't
found them?) I would like to try my hand at a BIG plane, like a DC-9, DC-10
or a whopping 747! Is this just too boring for the PC sim market, or too
difficult to program? I use a Mac most of the time and XWindows a little.

-------
Erling Mork: Student at U of Oslo, Programmer at Data Nostra A/S
internet: erlingm@ifi.uio.no; AppleLink: NOR0042
Disclaimer: Did I say that?
"If it works, it must be obsolete." -- VP for Tech Planning at Bell Atlantic

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas)
Subject: Re: SubLogic's ATP
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 03:52:34 GMT

In article <3319@peking.gdwb.oz.au> agh@gdwb.oz.au (Andrew Harvey) writes:
>Does SubLogic's ATP have SVGA drivers? Is it possible to get
>Australian Scenery software and last of all, will it run well on
>a 486 DX 33?

ANYTHING will run well on a 486 DX 33.  If it didn't, they sure wouldn't
sell too many of them.  :)

-- 
John Mechalas                                          "I'm not an actor, but
mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu                                 I play one on TV."
Aero Engineering, Purdue University                     #include disclaimer.h
From: bobc@natinst.com (Bob Conyne)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: OOOOPS!
Date: 12 Oct 1992 15:57:22 -0500
Organization: National Instruments, Austin, TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: eagle.natinst.com
Summary: Trident Support

>Are you sure about Trident?  The version of this product that I have seen
>supports exactly six different VGA types:  ATI VGA Wonder, ATI VGA Wonder
>Plus/XL, Video 7 1024i, Video 7 Fast Write, SVGAs with Tseng chip set, and
>naturally the plain IBM VGA.  If your copy of SGA indeed supports Trident,
>then it must be an upgraded version.
>
>Timo

It may well be.  The packaging listed the boards you referred to only (I was 
rather disappointed that my Trident wasn't among them).  However, once I 
unpacked and loaded the software, I was quite delighted to find that it also 
included support for Trident.  They included a README file that explained that 
they had added Trident support (presumably due to customer requests).  The
bottom line: if you have a Trident and your Mallard "Sound, Graphics, and
Aircraft Upgrade" doesn't support it, contact Mallard for an upgrade (I guess
that makes it an Upgrade upgrade?).
--Bob
From: rab@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (Richard Alan Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: ATP questions
Keywords: No, No and Yes
Date: 8 Oct 92 04:11:25 GMT
Organization: School of Physics, University of Melbourne




No: ATP does not come with SVGA drivers... (sigh) I wish it did.
No: Scenery designed with the FS scenery designer can't be used 
	(I'm not sure about the commercial Aust scenery set)
YES: I run atp on a 40MhZ 386 and it is excellent, on a fast 486
	it should run like a dream. ATP has, for slower machines,
	the useful ability to mask off unimportant scenery very 
	quickly (like on short finals) to speed up the screen
	refresh rate. But on the 386 I don't use it much.

Even though the lack of SVGA drivers is the main disadvantage, (ATP is
compatible with all sublogic scenery disks), I think it is well worth
buying. It is FAR more sophisticated than FS-4, and is reasonably cheap.
The manual comes with all the relevant Jeppeson charts for the major 
cities in the database, and navaids seem to be accurate, as well as 
placement of ILS (left/right) and major airport buildings/taxiways. The
city detail is lightly better than the stock FS-4 detail, and the 
map database is continuous. That is, there is not transition across 
scenery boundaries as in FS. The database extends to Hawaii (if you have that
scenery disk). The aircraft have Inertial Nav, and lots of other goodies
(panel layout as close as possible to the real thing, within the constraints
of a PC screen.)
The ATC procedures are excellent, and you really need to know what you are
doing just to get clearance from the correct places (center, tower, ground ATIS
etc) to be allowed to fly in ATC control. 
I had the oppertunity to fly a few sectors with my brother in law
last year in New Zealand, on the flight deck of a 737, and found in general
ATP followed the procedures well. Also an afternoon in the 737 simulator
made me realise that the 'feel' of the ATP 737 was pretty realistic. I can't
say for the 747, 767 etc.

Anyway, it's worth a look. Shop around though. One good source is the
PC-aviator, who also sells NOAA, Jepp, and approach plates, as well as 
every add-on in for most PC simulators in existence. (yeah, I know thats
a plug... but I think it's neat that a whole business can be devoted to 
PC based flight simulators.)

cheers

AListair Scott

afs@tauon.ph.unimelb.edu.au
NOT rab@ariel.....
From: rab@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (Richard Alan Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: ATP sound drivers
Keywords: look on tauon.ph
Date: 12 Oct 92 21:36:29 GMT
Organization: School of Physics, University of Melbourne


atpsound.zip and another file for the ATP adlib driver is 
now also on tauon.ph.unimelb.edu.au in pub/incoming/FS


Alistair Scott
afs@tauon.ph.unimelb.edu.au

(don't have a soundcard... but I hear they're pretty impressive  :)  )
From: rab@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (Richard Alan Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: SubLogic's ATP
Date: 13 Oct 92 05:47:09 GMT
Organization: School of Physics, University of Melbourne

From alistair scott  afs@tauon.ph.unimelb.edu.au

Re: Melbourne scenery project.
Where is this scenery available? The Sydney set is in many shops here, but
I haven't heard anything about the Melbourne series being commercially 
available.


Alistair

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas)
Subject: Re: Memory Problems!
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 11:58:44 GMT

In article <7747@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> rlwst8+@pitt.edu (Robert L Williamson) writes:
>Ok, I have a problem for all of those memory experts out there.  Is there a way I can convert conventional memory used by MS-DOS to memory used for running
>programs.  I would appreciate any help.  In other words I have 580K of memory
>for largest executable program size and 650K memory for memory used by MS-DOS.  
>I need the memory used by MS-DOS for my program.  (Aces of the Pacific).   

Three solutions:

   1) Dos 5.0 can load DOS into high memory.
   2) And expanded memory manager, like QEMM, which can load all your
      TSR's into high memory.
   3) Create a seperate config.sys and autoexec.bat file that has only
      the bare essentials needed for running your game.  Then make
      a batch file to copy these and reboot when you want to play the
      game.


-- 
John Mechalas                                          "I'm not an actor, but
mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu                                 I play one on TV."
Aero Engineering, Purdue University                     #include disclaimer.h
From: rab@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (Richard Alan Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: Commercial airline sims (for PC?)
Date: 13 Oct 92 10:53:51 GMT
Organization: School of Physics, University of Melbourne

Firstly, ATP should run well on a 20MhZ 386. I used to run it on a 286, and
the performance was ok.  It ignores a coprocessor (unfortunately), but does
allow scenery intensity masking on the fly (heh heh) to speed up the frame
rate.
The ATP database is pretty good, uh 26 major airports, with Jeppeson charts
and ALL navaids are as they appear on the corresponding approach plate.
The positioning etc seems to be fine. The database is not expandable, but
I have found it detailed enough not to wrrant it. Then again, I don't have the
desire to include my local airports!
330 other airports with correct approach lights, VASI's auxiliary lighting,
runway markings (to FAA specs). The major airports include taxiways, terminal
buildings, and instrument approaches of course.
Aircraft avionics include NAV, ILS, DME, ADF, RMI, IRS, radio alt, autopilot
(one that works properly) and weather radar. The DME gives slant range readings.
uh what else...
aircraft... 747, 767, 737, A320, Shorts 360. I can only vouch for the 737 
acting like the real thing (compared to a commercial simulator).
Cloud rendering is HEAPS better than FS-4. Possibly the nicest feature is the 
interactive ATC comms. You have the option of radar vectored control, and
it's amazing how realistic it becomes when you get a 'go around' in bad 
weather, with thunderstorms on the w/radar, and you are in full IFR until 250ft
AGL.

I bought it for $79 AUS, but it should be way cheaper in the US. 

Maybe a FAQ for this newsgroup detailing whats around/whats good/whats lousy
might be a good idea.

cheers

AListair Scott

afs@tauon.ph.unimelb.edu.au
From: brooke@cco.caltech.edu (Brooke Paul Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: Air Warrior (WWII multiplayer combat sim)
Date: 8 Oct 1992 08:31:13 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

Well, that is certainly another opinion.  Air Warrior is in the process
of switching to faster, dedicated machines.  This news just broke during
the past couple of months.  As far as I can tell, most people think the
game is very fun.  That is how I feel.  There is nothing else like it --
nowhere else can you fight against many people.  In my opinion, one on one
dueling is to Air Warrior what hamburger is to fillet mignon.
In fact, many years ago, I got a subscription to GEnie solely to play AW.

Sure, it's not for everyone.  If you are into quick gratification, forget it.
It takes lots and lots of practice and experience to get good.  If you happen
to have a shitty GEnie node, that can cause you problems (warping), too.
However, if you want to play a game that is the closest you can currently
get to WWII combat in all its complication (not just 1-1 shoot-'em-up action),
AW is it.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: jtf9s@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Phantom)
Subject: Re: Air Warrior (WWII multiplayer combat sim)
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:01:19 GMT

In article <BvrCHG.F8w@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> trwagner@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Ted) writes:
>In article <1auaosINNbg1@gap.caltech.edu> brooke@cco.caltech.edu (Brooke Paul Anderson) writes:
>>========
>>
>>It was the last Sunday, and, after having lost the previous four
>>battles, the Japanese had no reason to play conservatively.  Our
>
>	<Most deleted>
>
>>
>>All in all, it was a very fun battle.
>
>
>
>	Now, if there were only ARCADES interconnected with sit
>down sims to do something like this!  Imagine 'Steel Talons' 
>connected to another 'Steel Talons' across the country!  And,
>what if internet!  I hope there is someone programming something
>similar to AW for internet!  So cool.  I look forward to seeing
>the new Hellcats that is supposed to have networking capabilities.
>
	Way interesting idea!!!  FS4 and scores of other IBM fs games
have a modem-modem player option.  Does anyone know if there is a front
end that would permit you to send the requisite packets over the internet
to another player?

Jim


Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: hsk@tk7.oulu.fi (Hannu Kauppinen)
Subject: Re: Sun Aviator users??
Organization: University of Oulu, Dept. of EE, Finland
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 07:37:44 GMT

> Is there anyone out there with Aviator for Sun workstations?

What is Aviator? If it is a flight simulator for Sun, could someone
tell where to get it (if freeware)!
And if someone knows other fligth simulators for Sun, please let me know!

--
+------------------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Hannu Kauppinen, University of Oulu      | phone:  +358-(9)81-5532795 |
| Department of Electrical Engineering     | email:      hsk@ee.oulu.fi |
| Computer Laboratory, 90570 Oulu, Finland | Hannu.Kauppinen@ee.oulu.fi | 
+------------------------------------------+----------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: d87-mal@oddjob.nada.kth.se (Mats Lfkvist)
Subject: Re: Sun Aviator users??
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
	<Bvs4vo.1ED@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 17:51:45 GMT

ACM can be found on export.lcs.mit.edu as contrib/acm.2.4.tar.Z.

It should work on any X-windows machine, but really needs quite a bit
of cpu (and graphics) performance to do well, even though the graphics
is VERY simple (no fancy landscape with mountains and valleys to fly
around in this one, buy Aviator if you want that :-).

I'm using a hacked version that will redraw the screen as often as possible
(instead of using a compiled-in update rate as in the original source),
on a SparcStation IPX this results in 12 to 18 frames per second
depending on how much there is to paint on the screen.
(A SparcStation IPC without the GX graphics can handle about 4 fps,
a HP 720 easily goes over 30 fps.)

The best part with ACM is that you can dogfight against a friend, the
worst part is that it gets slower when more players are connected :-(

      _
Mats Lofkvist
d87-mal@nada.kth.se
From: twh18@isuvax.iastate.edu (Phoenix)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: ACM Keys
Date: 12 Oct 92 21:41:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bw12wH.Mr2
Reply-To: twh18@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa


	Can anyone post the keys or tell me where to get the docs for ACM?
It took me quite a while to figure out l for lock, f for engine.
	Thanks in advance.
					Ming