HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: berenson@cookie.enet.dec.com (Hal Berenson)
Subject: Re: Oracle TPC Benchmarks and "discrete transactions"
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 23:26:19 GMT


In article <wwknp=p.tcox@netcom.com>, tcox@netcom.com (Thomas Cox) writes...
>devine@olympus.CS.Berkeley.EDU (bob devine) writes:
>>It is obvious that Oracle has invented discrete transactions as a
>>way to generate higher TPC numbers.  
> 
>Actually, I was under the impression that Discrete Transactions are
>found in IMS/Fastpath.  Can someone confirm this?
> 

From the description of the limitations of discrete transactions in
ORACLE documentation, I conclude they are not nearly as useful as the
IMS/Fastpath feature.  In particular, since you can not perform SELECT
FOR UPDATE in an ORACLE discrete transaction it is not possible to
express "If QTY-ON-HAND > 0 THEN QTY-ON-HAND = QTY-ON-HAND - 1" and have
it actually work.  With normal SELECT statements, ORACLE will give you
the value of QTY-ON-HAND at some point in the past and will not
lock it against changes by other transactions.

>>While these probably don't
>>break the letter of the TPC rules, they do break its spirit!
> 
>If dt's are useful in a TPC environment, then they will be useful in
>those real world applications that resemble the TPC environment.  If
>there are no such applications, then the TPC is useless.  Which position
>are you taking?

If "resemble" were true there would be little argument.  From Charles'
posting and my own reading of the Oracle material I conclude that the
environment must be almost identical for them to be useful.  That's one
of the things Charles is asking people...could you use discrete
transactions in your application.  Further, if you can almost use them
but not quite (do to a particular restriction) then I'd like to hear
about slight variations that would be lots more useful.

As for the usefulness of the TPC-A and TPC-B benchmarks...they had a
purpose at one point in time.  It may very well be that they have
outlived that usefulness for a number of reasons.  This is not new in the
benchmark world.  At various points in time USSTEEL, WHETSTONES,
DHRYSTONES, and other relatively limited scope benchmarks were "the"
measurements of performance.  They have all faded from the radar screen,
or at least become parts of more comprehensive measurement methodologies.
Even some of those recent methodologies, SPEC89 for example, have had to
be replaced (SPEC92) to maintain a reasonable basis for comparison.
.............................................................................

Hal Berenson	

Home: 71640.3535@compuserve.com
Work: berenson@cookie.enet.dec.com

-- Disclaimer: Opinions expressed here are my own, not my employer's! If
I happen to communicate with you from work rather than home, its just
for convenience (just like asking for a "daytime phone number") and should
not be construed as representing the views of my employer or its
employees, officers, directors, or stockholders. --
Newsgroups: comp.benchmarks
From: eugene@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: [l/m 4/28/92] References	(28/28)		c.be FAQ
Keywords: who, what, where, when, why, how
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 11:25:11 GMT
Reply-To: eugene@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)

28	References						<This panel>
1	Introduction to FAQ chain and netiquette
2	Benchmarking Concepts
3	PERFECT
4
5	Performance Metrics
6	Temporary scaffold of New FAQ material
7	Music to benchmark by
8	Benchmark types
9	Linpack
10
11
12	Measurement Environments
13
14
15	12 Ways to Fool the Masses with Benchmarks
16	SPEC
17	Benchmark invalidation methods
18
19	WPI Benchmark
20	Equivalence
21	TPC
22
23
24
25	Ridiculously short benchmarks
26	Other miscellaneous benchmarks
27

References
	Pending publication of Miya, Saavadera-Barerra, and Smith.

@article{LeCl82,
author="H. M. Levy and D. W. Clark",
title="On the Use of Benchmarks for Measuring System Performance",
journal="Computer architecture news",
month=dec,
year=1982}

@article{CoHw91,
author="T. M. Conte and W. W. Hwu",
title="Benchmark characterization",
journal="IEEE Computer",
month=jan,
pages="48-56",
year=1991}

                         ^  
                        /.\  
                       / . \  
                    e /  . O\ S
                     /   .  p\  
                  r /n   .C  e\ o
                   /o   C.o   r\  
                a /i     .m    a\ f
                 /t     P.p     t\  
              w /a       .i      i\ t
               /c       U.l       n\ 
            d /i         .e        g\ w
             /n          .r          \ 
          r /u           .           S\ a
           /m           y.L           y\
        a /m         r.  N  .i         s\ r
         /o       o.  a     o  .b       t\
      H /C     m.  t           t  .r     e\ e
       /    e.  a                 a  .a   m\
      /  M.  D                       t  .r  \
     / .              D a t a           i  . \
    <_________________________________________> 
               A p p l i c a t i o n

Newsgroups: comp.benchmarks
From: jjb@sequent.com (Jeff Berkowitz)
Subject: Re: Disk storage size?
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: sqnt
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 22:34:58 GMT

FYI - Sequent used to use the "2^20" definition of "Meg" for disks.
There came a time, however, when a competitive vendor (who I will
not name, so don't ask) was selling the EXACT SAME DISK DRIVES WE
WERE SELLING, but claiming more capacity per drive - because they
were using the "10^6" definition.  That is, they had a few percent
more "megabytes" because they were using a smaller megabyte.

So against the best wishes of almost everybody here who had an
opinion, we switched to the "10^6" definition.  Silly as it seemed,
I had to agree that it was unreasonable to ask our salespeople to
explain why our [identical] drives were smaller than their drives.
-- 
Jeff Berkowitz, Sequent Computer Systems   jjb@sequent.com  uunet!sequent!jjb
Newsgroups: comp.benchmarks
From: eugene@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: [l/m 3/17/92] Other misc. benchmarks (26/28)		c.be FAQ
Keywords: who, what, where, when, why, how
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 11:25:08 GMT
Reply-To: eugene@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)

26	Other miscellaneous benchmarks	<This panel>
27
28	References
1	Introduction to the FAQ chain and netiquette
2
3	PERFECT
4
5	Performance Metrics
6
7	Music to benchmark by
8	Benchmark types
9	Linpack
10
11
12	Measurement Environments
13
14
15	12 Ways to Fool the Masses with Benchmarks
16	SPEC
17	Benchmark invalidation methods
18
19	WPI Benchmark
20	Equivalence
21	TPC
22
23
24
25	Ridiculously short benchmarks

RhosettaStone:
Speech synthesis and recognition benchmark:
	e.g., How to recognize speech.
        How to wreck a nice beach.
An interesting benchmark because it does not take a machine to become confused.
Who: me
What: examples of different problems in speech and language
recognition and synthesis.  The examples are collected for a naive
user community.  Those in the field are dealing with a highly specialized
media.  This file keeps the experts in check.
Where: eos.arc.nasa.gov.
How: confusion, discriminatory sounds
Further examples always sought.

                   ^ A  
                s / \ r                
               m /   \ c              
              h /     \ h            
             t /       \ i          
            i /         \ t        
           r /           \ e      
          o /             \ c    
         g /               \ t  
        l /                 \ u
       A /                   \ r
        <_____________________> e   
                Language
From: sartin@88opensi.88open.ORG (Rob Sartin)
Newsgroups: comp.benchmarks
Subject: Re: HP AIM Configuration and pricing
Date: 24 Aug 92 17:54:52 GMT
Reply-To: sartin@88opensi.UUCP (Rob Sartin)
Organization: 88open Consortium Ltd., San Jose

In article <1992Aug20.211509.8573@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> clc5q@hemlock.cs.Virginia.EDU (Clark L. Coleman) writes:
>The MPH (milestones) test exercises Unix utilities. The AIM people apparently
>have a nonstandard idea of what the "standard" Unix utilities are: they say

I don't know exactly what AIM tests, but from the high level description
of the tests it sounds like they consider "grap" to be a standard Unix utility.

Rob
Xref: sparky comp.benchmarks:1368 comp.compilers:1514 comp.arch:9217
From: km@mathcs.emory.edu
Newsgroups: comp.benchmarks,comp.compilers,comp.arch
Subject: Need CPU test suite
Keywords: C, testing
Date: 3 Sep 92 13:44:32 GMT
Reply-To: km@mathcs.emory.edu
Followup-To: comp.benchmarks
Organization: Emory University, Dept of Math and CS
Return-Path: news@mathcs.emory.edu

We are looking for a set of C programs to test the accuracy of a cpu
instruction simulator. Bascially, we need test programs that do almost no
I/O and test themselves by comparing computed results with known values.
We can handle some simple I/O of course by substituting a printf that
writes to a memory buffer, and then manually examining the buffer.

Does anyone know of a set of programs that would be appropriate?  It
strikes me that some compiler verification or benchmarking programs might
be ok, as long as they don't do much I/O.
---
Ken Mandelberg      | km@mathcs.emory.edu          PREFERRED
Emory University    | {rutgers,gatech}!emory!km    UUCP 
Dept of Math and CS | km@emory.bitnet              NON-DOMAIN BITNET  
Atlanta, GA 30322   | Phone: Voice (404) 727-7963, FAX 727-5611
-- 
Send compilers articles to compilers@iecc.cambridge.ma.us or
{ima | spdcc | world}!iecc!compilers.  Meta-mail to compilers-request.
From: vidya-v@acsu.buffalo.edu (vidyaranya)
Newsgroups: comp.benchmarks
Subject: SPECmarks and stuff
Date: 4 Sep 92 20:53:03 GMT
Organization: UB
Originator: vidya-v@beatrix.eng.buffalo.edu


Hi,

I would like to know wher I could find the set of programs 
that are used to evaluate a machine's SPECmark rating? If anyone
has a copy, could it be either posted here or mailed to me? OR
is there an FTP site where I can get it from?

Thanks

Vidyaranya
vidya-v@beatrix.eng.buffalo.edi
Newsgroups: comp.benchmarks,news.answers
From: devine@olympus.CS.Berkeley.EDU (bob devine)
Subject: Re: Oracle TPC Benchmarks and "discrete transactions"
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 21:19:55 GMT

levine_charles@tandem.com (Charles Levine) writes:
: ---------------------------------------
: - Are discrete transactions a good idea?
: - Is this an innovation that other database vendors should pursue?
: - Given their limited nature and the user sophistication required,
:   do discrete transactions make sense in the relational model?

It is obvious that Oracle has invented discrete transactions as a
way to generate higher TPC numbers.  While these probably don't
break the letter of the TPC rules, they do break its spirit!

The bigger question is if a special, slimmed-down transaction
semantics are required for real-world cases rather than for the
semi-artificial TPC example.  Are regular transactions too "heavy"
or too general purpose for a class of problems that could more
efficiently be solved with a "lite" transaction?

My gut feeling is that: Yes, "lite" transactions might be a valuable
addition to the bag of tricks used in database.  The optimizer could
use them as a hint to avoid some locking or logging that would
normally be done for regular transactions.

What needs to be done is a tight analysis of what benefits could
result from adding more complexity to the db programmer's life (and
to the folks who implement a db's optimizer!).  If only a few
percentage improvement is possible with a general "lite" transaction
then it is not worth the bother.  However, the Oracle-7 numbers show
that some hefty benefit is possible with their TPC-oriented transaction
so a more general "lite" transaction might produce a > 10% gain.
In this case it is probably worth the bother when tweaking the last
bit of performance out of an large application.

Bob Devine
From: albani@cadlab.sublink.org (Lanfranco Albani)
Newsgroups: comp.benchmarks
Subject: Re: Disk storage size?
Date: 24 Aug 92 22:47:51 GMT
Organization: CAD.LAB S.p.A., Bologna, Italia

:>In article <0001@umd.edu>, pc@umd.edu writes:
:>>When people talk about 200MB disk, do they mean  200x1,000,000 byte, or
:>>200x1024x1024 ?  When talk about the RAM, people seems use 1k=1024, but
:>>when go to disk, it is metric. Is this always the case?

For disk storage capacity, usually people use 1Mb for a 1,000,000 bytes.

Bye, Lanfranco

-- 
Lanfranco Albani - CAD.LAB s.p.a., v. Ronzani 7/29, Casalecchio, Italia
Email: (work:) albani@cadlab.sublink.org, (home:) bob@allan.sublink.org
Phone: (work:) ++39 (51) 6130360, (home:) ++39 (51) 727372; 
Fax: ++39 (51) 6130294 (work only), Fidonet: 2:332/407.1138 (home only).
Newsgroups: comp.benchmarks
From: Brian.Lane@p0.f162.n138.z1.fidonet.org (Brian Lane)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: 1913 Income Tax Amendment
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:12:02 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:138/162.0 - Callahan's Place, Ashford WA

In a message of 25 Aug 92  19:42:41, Uncle Fester wrote:

UF> Without repeating everything that's already been said, I only have one
UF> teeny tiny nit to pick with the debate so far.
UF> While the Constitution may have been ratified 200+ years ago, I have
UF> always been under the impression that a real income tax didn't begin until
UF> the year 1913.  
UF> Was that voted upon by the people at that time?
UF> 
UF> Uncle Fester

  No.  The 16th amendment was adopted in 1913 allowing Congress to lay and collect taxeson incomes.  This amendment was supposedly ratified by 2/3 of the state legislations, but actually was not!  There is a group who - for the last 10 years - have been researching this, and they have traveled to all 50 states to examine the records.  They have determined that it was never ratifed by 2/3, and that some of those that did ratify it had changed the wording of the amendment that they voted on.

  In other words, FEDERAL income taxes, and the whole IRS buearucracy is UN-Constitutional!

   -Brian

  "Governments cannot give Rights, they can only take them away"


--  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!138!162.0!Brian.Lane
Internet: Brian.Lane@p0.f162.n138.z1.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: guay@fraser.sfu.ca (Tim Guay)
Subject: Re: Re- Legion of Doom
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 18:20:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.135220.29630@wixer.cactus.org> cb@wixer.cactus.org (Cyberspace Buddha) writes:
>
>Damn straight, Tim!  I hack *constantly*.  not just on my computer, but
>just through my daily wanderings.  If I find something that I don't know
>how it works & it catches my fancy, I hack that thing until I either get
>what I want or a warning to cease & desist.  Even after some warnings, I
>have been known to keep on keepin' on if the warnings seem to be "silly"
>IMO.

I must say that I hack at life... Have to since life didn't come with a
manual :-)

	TTFN
		Tim the Canadian


Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: EFF & Voting Records
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 14:07:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.055244.20347@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Joe.Francis@dartmouth.edu (Joe Francis) writes:
>Does the EFF keep voting records of US Senators and Reps on bills of
>concern to EFF?  Election season is upon us, and I would appreciate
>access to good summaries of bills along with voting records.

We don't keep those records as such, although we do keep track of 
who has positions on our issues, and what those positions are.
We don't have a summary document we can distribute, though.

>If no one at EFF is is doing this, than let me suggest it. 

This is good suggestion. Since this kind of information would
normally be gathered and distributed by our Washington office, let
me suggest that you write the director of that office, Jerry Berman
(jberman@eff.org) and ask him whether and how we can implement it there.
(I will send him a copy of your posting independently.)


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact 
mnemonic@eff.org| of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, 
(617) 864-0665  | both are transformed."
EFF, Cambridge  |                           --Carl Jung
From: Joe.Francis@dartmouth.edu (Joe Francis)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: EFF & Voting Records
Date: 2 Sep 92 10:41:47 GMT
 <1992Sep1.140758.14351@eff.org>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a2@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1992Sep1.140758.14351@eff.org>
mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:

> Since this kind of information would
> normally be gathered and distributed by our Washington office, let
> me suggest that you write the director of that office, Jerry Berman
> (jberman@eff.org) and ask him whether and how we can implement it there.

Ok.  Thanks for the pointer.  I'll write to Jerry Berman today.

Thanks,
Joe Francis
DCIS team
Dartmouth College
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: guay@fraser.sfu.ca (Tim Guay)
Subject: Re: BACK TO TAXES AGAIN (
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 12:39:47 GMT

>        Not really, you COULD become a citizen if you really wanted
>to! Not that you would get much representation as a citizen either!
>The revoulution was co-opted long ago. (I'd say around 1787 if pressed
>for a date. Others would probably disagree.)
>
>        David Brooks

Here! Here! You Yanks only get represented 1 day every 4 years and we Canucks
only 1 day every 3 to 5 years. ie when we all get to vote. The rest of the
time your congress and our parliment go on as if we didn't exist! Its enough
to make one an arachist! What we need are Delphi polls! We have the technology... we have the bandwidth... lets put the people back in democracy!

Hmmm... I guess that last outburst will go into the file that CSIS (Canadian
spooks) have on me...   

Tim the Canadian
From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Re- Legion of Doom
Date: 30 Aug 92 00:14:36 GMT
Organization: Taronga Park BBS

In article <7P20PB4w164w@underg.UUCP> max@underg.UUCP (Max Cray) writes:
>peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>> You're right. You may be a hacker. I don't deny that. I'm just pointing
>> out that being a phreak doesn't make one a hacker. And being a hacker
>> doesn't make you a phreak.

>Well in a way phreaks are hackers. They are phone system hackers.

Some of them may be hackers, just as some of them may be Polish or Masons
or Democrats or Libertarians or curly-haired.

>Perhaps
>you meant to say that being a cracker, does not make you a hacker?

No, I said what I meant. Crackers are packet-switching phreaks.
-- 
                                                                `-_-'
                         Have you hugged your wolf today?        'U`

Peter da Silva, Taronga Park BBS, Houston, TX  +1 713 568 0480/1032
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk,alt.allsysop,alt.bbs.ads,co.general,nyx.mis
From: grant@bluemoon.rn.com (Grant DeLorean)
Subject: Re: Back to ONE vs. IBECC (was Re: Want _Your_ Blood to Boil too
Organization: Blue Moon
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 15:27:00 GMT

thester@nyx.cs.du.edu (Uncle Fester) writes:


>Without repeating everything that's already been said, I only have one
>teeny tiny nit to pick with the debate so far.
>While the Constitution may have been ratified 200+ years ago, I have
>always been under the impression that a real income tax didn't begin until
>the year 1913.  
>Was that voted upon by the people at that time?

 I just pointed that out in mail...  It was also supposed to be a
temporary measure and not a permanent curse. The part about noone
ever paying more than 5% (and that only for people making over $50,000
in 1913 which is equivalent to over a million now) has also been
forgotten...
-- 
\   Grant DeLorean  - IHMSA & NRA Life Member -  (grant@bluemoon.rn.com)   /

        Tested on dolphins and assorted helpless furry creatures

Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: jim@ferkel.ucsb.edu (Jim Lick)
Subject: Re: LOD shirts
Organization: University of California, Santa Barbara
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 22:29:06 GMT

In <1992Aug25.192242.25640@uwm.edu> aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Strider) writes:
>Does anyone know where these t-shirts are available from?  I saw some of
>them at GenCon this past weekend ... quite cool.  Also, how much?

Chris said that the current run would be the absolutely last run ever.

                            Jim Lick		       
Work: University of California	| Play: 1236 Camino Meleno
      Santa Barbara		|       Santa Barbara, CA 93111-1007
      Dept. of Mechanical Engr. |	(805) 964-2088 voice/msg
      2311 Engr II Building     |	(805) MUD-SPY1 data
      (805) 893-4113            |       jim@tcp.com
      jim@ferkel.ucsb.edu	| This space intentionally left blank
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: lcypher@nuchat.sccsi.com (Louis Cypher)
Subject: Re: Re- Legion of Doom
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 11:27:55 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.112325.18938@nuchat.sccsi.com> lcypher@nuchat.sccsi.com (Louis Cypher) writes:
>Oh.....Now *I* remember you from summercon as well..you were the loudmouth
>jerk that everybody hated...Ok, I was trying to put the name with the face.
>Just my two cents, but you didn't seem to make many friends with your very
>abrasive and obnoxious attitude...
>
>

The previous article was supposed to be adressed to that Brad Hicks type
person...


Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk,alt.allsysop,alt.bbs.ads,co.general,nyx.misc,alt.bbs.allsysop,comp.bbs.misc,du.misc
From: kreme@nyx.cs.du.edu (Not A Random Name)
Subject: Re: Back to ONE vs. IBECC (was Re: Want _Your_ Blood to Boil too?)
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 02:15:21 GMT

aburt@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (Andrew Burt) writes:
>This argument really got off course -- it started as a gripe about the
>ONE bbs con being a bully and trying to knock off the IBECC con.  Talk to
>Marshall Barry (mbarry@nyx.cs.du.edu) for details/facts if you want to
>know how ONE sleazed on them.  I'd cancel my subscription to Boardwatch
>and throw my TBBS software into a blender -- but I don't have either.

ONE was put together by the same people as BoardWatch?  Sheez.... you should
have said so sooner.  That explains EVERYTHING.

Note the lack of a smiley.

--
 _____________________________________________________________________
| kreme@nyx.cs.du.edu | The Coven BBS [303/777-2911] 1st METAL in MST |
| kreme@#22 (FV3 Net) | MST3K, Spacer Quest 3.4w, Anime files, & More |
| [303/722-2009] Vox  |          Unity Sleeps -- Neil Gaiman          |
Xref: sparky comp.org.eff.talk:5555 alt.allsysop:52 alt.bbs.ads:1288 co.general:1207
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk,alt.allsysop,alt.bbs.ads,co.general,nyx.mis
Subject: Re: Back to Taxes again (was Re: Want _Your_ Blood to Boil too
From: mbarkah@slate.mines.colorado.edu (Ade Barkah)
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:57:55 GMT
Distribution: co
Organization: Colorado School of Mines

kdenning@portal.hq.videocart.com (Karl Denninger) writes:
: 
: I don't think I'm getting my money's worth.
: 
: I'd love to get an itemized bill for my taxes with the places it goes broken
: down and be able to opt out of that which I don't want to use or pay for.

ARGH, I bet they'll raise taxes to implement this. ;)

: Karl Denninger 		Inet:  kdenning@hq.videocart.com

-Ade.
-- 
Internet  : mbarkah@slate.mines.colorado.edu    (NeXT Mailable)
CompuServe: 74160,3404
FIDO_net  : Ade Barkah [1:104/108@fido.org]
SNAIL_net : 1800 West Campus Road, Golden, CO 80401