HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: FBI Security Investigations
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 00:34:28 GMT


In article <1993Jan24.190410.25348@dvorak.amd.com>
tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett) writes:

>In article <1993Jan23.143722.5608@macc.wisc.edu>
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>At the bottom line, the investigator's opinion,
>>as long as it's not based on plain old bigotry, is all we
>>have to go on.

>But that is the problem when it is based on one (typically)
>man's opinion.  In most cases, a new-hire who is denied a
>security clearance will be terminated rather than the
>company actively appealing the decision.

I suspect that as often as not (and maybe more often than
that) some form of discrimination operates in case of
applicants who are LGB.  But we know some LGB people are
granted high security clearances, and indeed people some of
us here know have successfully challenged the government.
But you're probably right that most of the time, it's
decided on the say-so of one person.

>I just don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling that the Bureau
>gives a damn about making sure their investigators are not
>biased.  It sometimes is a crap shoot.

This is true in lots of other hiring situations, of course,
so to that extent it's one of the general discrimination
problems, not just for FBI or NSA hires.

>On a personal subject...  I have never been in a position
>where I needed a security clearance, and I don't think that
>I would be happy working in a position where I really had to
>have one.  [reasons]
>I'd much rather be asked
>to leave the room than to not be able to sleep at nights.

It wouldn't take me long to uncover scads of biases I hold
about many aspects of this arena.  I don't like the idea of
spies, lies, deceptions, stings, or any of that.  But
neither can I quite imagine today's world without those
things.  So it comes down to one of those jobs *I* just can't
imagine wanting, but I -- maybe a little reluctantly, if
irrationally -- find myself being glad somebody's minding
that part of the store.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
From: walsh@optilink.COM (Mark Walsh)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Fighting fundies
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:01:11 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

From article <C18GJC.78J@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, by mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Real Life?!?! HA!!):

> These fundie groups that are trying to make our lives
> a hell are "non-profit"!  Now, I may be wrong here, but is it not required for
> a non-profit organization to abstain from any political activity?

Eh?  This would sure change the face of the planet!
I better cancel that check that I just mailed to Common Cause.
Good thing I didn't send one to the ACLU!  :-)

> Another idea:  Why not try to drain the fundies' pocketbooks a little bit each
> day on our own?  A few months ago, someone mentioned sending lead weights to
> them through business reply mail?  What about sending lots of letters, without
> return address, postage due?  How about calling their 1-800 numbers (Do they
> have any?) incessantly, thus a.driving up their phone bills(maybe) and b.tying
> up their lines and operators' time?

This is called harrasment, and as such is illegal.
Remember the saying, "do unto others..."  How would you
feel if your favorite cause's 800 number was diluged by
this kind of nonsense?  Do us all a favor and grow up.

Your .signature line says that hate is not a family value.
I guess your desires to drive up the postal and phone bills
of some retarded group stems from your deep love for them.

> All these things are free.  I don't know if they would work; maybe someone has
> tried some or all of this before.  But anyone who has any other ideas, let us
> know.  I think the only way these hate groups are going to lose is if they run
> out of money.  So why not help them run out of money?

Do you really think that these hate groups are such a great
cause that they will steamroll over the top of you?  I think
not.  These groups are largely composed of morons, and will
never be a sizeable percentage of the population.

There is a much larger percentage of people, gay and straight
alike, that believe in the concept of personal freedoms.  The
best thing to do is become organized in order to educate the
masses of the virtue of your cause, and not attempt to destroy
the freedoms of those with differing beliefs.  How can you
expect tolerance if you do not display it yourself?

Years ago, I despised the NRA.  How could a group that is less
than one percent of the population get away with so much?  I
realized that the key was organization and focus.  I also
learned that the NRA is not evil, they are just a group of
people like you and me who happen to be particularly effective
at protecting their interests.  There are some very valuable
lessons here.
-- 
Mark Walsh (walsh@optilink) -- UUCP: uunet!optilink!walsh
AOL: BigCookie -- Amateur Radio: KM6XU@WX3K -- USCF: L10861
"What, me worry?" - William M. Gaines, 1922-1992
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jackies@fc.hp.com (Jackie Sheddy X6958)
Subject: Re: Personal losses in CO 2
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 11:22:10 GMT
Organization: The Edge of the Final Frontier
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.3 PL6]

Melinda Shore (shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu) wrote:
: In article <C1928z.K1w@fc.hp.com> jackies@fc.hp.com (Jackie Sheddy X6958) writes:
: >	I  talked  to my  parents  somtime  in Dec.  They  asked  what I
: >	thought  about the  boycott.  I told  them I had mixed  feelings
: >	since I was  caught in the  middle and all.  My dad  decided  to
: >	tell me EXACTLY  what  rights he thought  gays  should NOT have.
: 
: [encouraging words from Melinda deleted to save bandwidth]
:
: It's possible, even likely, that you and your parents can
: come to terms.  It's been said here before, however, and it
: bears repeating that the safest thing is to develop a
: strong sense of self and of self-worth.  Whether or not the
: rift closes, you come away with something very worthwhile.
: --
:        Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu

	Thanks for the  support.  I came out to my folks  several  years
	ago.  My folks  don't  agree  with my  lifestyle,  but they have
	never  hassled me about it, either.  This really  hurt.  But you
	are right, my self-esteem has kept me going.

--
Regards,

Jackie
jackies@hpxxx.fc.hp.com
Hate is NOT a Family Value!!

Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.sex.motss
From: brsmith@duncan.cs.umn.edu (Brian R. Smith)
Subject: Re: Tim Chain Porn (Re: High School Athletes (lusher))
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:17:52 GMT

In <1993Jan21.190006.12270@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:

>In article <1993Jan21.172206.14782@spdcc.com> joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) writes:
>>rough and thick from all that woodchopping and VAX system management.

>Most be a story about trolls.  There is a whole generation of
>20-something computer hackers that have never seen a VAX.

And then there are the 20-something computer hackers that have.

Oh, I feel so *butch*.

The U of MN CS dept. still has its Vax 11/780, the first Unix machine I
ever logged into, and the first I administrated.  VMS?  What's that?  I
had Mt. Xinu 4.3BSD with NFS and *source*, and I *liked* it...

(Well, actually, I wasn't yet 20-something during my Vax period.  And the
Vax?  Well, it hasn't received power since a bit before my 20th
birthday.  When was that?  Wouldn't you like to know.)
--
Brian
brsmith@cs.umn.edu

Xref: sparky soc.motss:58219 alt.sex.motss:2256
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.sex.motss
Subject: Re: Mailing bricks, etc. (Was: Re: Fighting fundies)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 15:39:07 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <C1BKvo.Kq6@cs.columbia.edu>

Carson A. Gaspar writes:
>On the other hand, my favorite technique is to take all of those
>postage-paid cards, and put them in the mail -- completely blank.
>They receive them in the pristene condition (not counting the USPS) in
>which they were delivered.  This is (as far as I know -
>#include <stddisclaimer.h>) legal and costs them postage and sorting
>time.  Why should _I_ deal with recycling all those cards - let _them_
>do it!

Indeed!  Somehow, I managed to get on the NRA mailing list.[*]
When I got their first envelope full of gun-crazy stupidity, it
contained a "poll" -- which I did fill out in my own way
(probably a diametric opposite to what they "wanted" to hear) and
sent it back.  The crazy fools then sent me an even THICKER packet
begging me to join.  I stuffed every last bit of it -- including
the envelope the whole packet CAME in -- into the postage paid
reply envelope and dropped it in the mailbox.

This works *beautifully* to get you *OFF* their mailing list if
you don't want to be on it; the above suggestion for just sending
back non-identifiable materials works if you want to be a
persistent thorn in their financial side.  ;-)

[*] I think how this happened is that I placed an order with a
mailorder clothing company called Cheyenne Outfitters; they
apparently sell their mailing list, and the catalogs I've gotten
have progressed through western apparel, through hunting clothing
and equipment to a catalog full of stuff intended to appeal to a
_Soldier of Fortune_ type mentality. I suspect that it is from one
of the latter that the NRA got my address.

 
() Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.
()      -- Oscar Wilde
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: booth@mdd.comm.mot.com (Greg Booth)
Subject: Re: Clinton is President, Bush is not even history
Keywords: hope
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 01:02:18 GMT

In <llr1psINNg59@news.bbn.com> rrizzo@star-trek.bbn.com (Ron Rizzo) writes:



>It's time to disarm the murderous citizenry 

Do the non-"murderous" citizenry get to keep their means of
defense from gay-bashers, thugs and rapists?

>and get rid of American neo- 
     ^^^^^^^^^^
          Hmm, just what do you mean here?
>nazism:  


>	- urban drug gangs
    Sure,  I'd like to know you plan to do whatever your planning.

>        - the National Rifle Association

!?!?! Huh? The oldest civil rights organization in America?
Does the National Black Rifleman's Association and Jews for Protection
of Firearms Ownership count?

>        - the Ku Klux Klan

	Now you are on track.

>	- survivalists

These guys are weird, but basically harmless.

>	- neo-Nazi groups from Aryan Nation to Unity Christians
 See KKK above.

>and to overwhelm ultra-conservatives, the political prelude to Nazism, and
>their TV evangelists, direct mail operations, think tanks, and antigay
>and sexist front organizations.

Woah, painting with a very wide brush aren't you.

>Regards,
  ^^^^ All that, and a polite sig too....



-- 
Greg Booth BSc                    |     /_____________________________
BCAA-PCDHF-BCWF-NFA-NRA-IPSC-BCFSS|@====|_____________________________>
Motorola Mobile Data Division     |     \
booth@mdd.comm.mot.com (I don't speak for Motorola)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tim@ear-ache.mit.edu (Tim Wilson)
Subject: Re: Heterosexuality: What a beautiful choice!
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
	<1993Jan22.145300.4326@dvorak.amd.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 17:55:23 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.145300.4326@dvorak.amd.com>
tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett) writes: 

   Right... but although the Arthur S. DeMoss Foundation (of St. Davids,
   PA; 215-254-5500) says that the spots which address "major concerns
   within our society" are NOT political, they openly admit that they
   target the emotions of people so as to "change minds."  A changed mind
   often equates to a changed vote.

I think you give these ads too much credit.  Lord knows they're
obnoxious, and I'm sick of them, too, but just because the Arthur S.
DeMoss Foundation wants them to change minds doesn't mean that minds
will be or are being changed.  I'd imagine the effect to be one of
preaching to the converted.  I can't see them having much effect on
people who favor the right to choose, and I can't seem them having
anything but a negative effect on people who don't care, and I'd
imagine they're of very little utility to anyone thoughtfully on the
fence regarding the choice issue.

   So... let's say that an OCA initiative was on the ballot here in
   Texas.  A few months before the election, the Arthur S. DeMoss
   foundation started running those emotionally charged, mind-changing
   commercials for which they are famous, but with the Heterosexual theme
   of family and even with "converted" homosexuals giving witness.  Even
   though the OCA iniative would be found blatently unconstitutional,
   given the overwhelming evidence of gay and lesbian discrimination and
   related hate crimes, the measure would probably be VERY tough to
   defeat.

Again, I think these commercials preach to the choir.  That they might
stir up certain elements of the choir to commit hate crimes is
something to think about, though.  We are still in speculation land on
this, aren't we?  

   It is the American way that he who has the money gets his way... it
   just ain't right with such a powerful tool as television and radio.
   This issue REALLY needs to come before the FCC.  Regulation of
   mind-changing programming is a necessity as long as foundations like
   the Arthur S. DeMoss practice such emotional mind-changing.

If it weren't for my sneaking suspicion that this foundation got a
really good deal from Ted Turner's companies for all the ads they
bought, I like the thought of them spending all that money with so
little to show for it.  (Is it me, or does anyone else notice a
certain anit-gay bias in the wording and presentation of news on CNN
and Headline News.)  Personally, I'd prefer it if someone with big 
bucks -- like David Geffin or Elton John -- would start his own
foundation and crank out some ads that show gay folk in a positive
light.

--
Tim Wilson
Internet:  tim@ear-ache.mit.edu	
UUCP:  mit-eddie!mit-athena!tim
Bad Colorado.  No business.
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Pro-Queer violence and Re: Starting Trouble: Homophobia at
Date: 22 Jan 93 12:03:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan22.120336.15247
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <16B5D7469.TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu> TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu (Tracey McCartney) writes:
>In article <74043@cup.portal.com>
>Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
> 
>>* sigh *
>>
>>I was at MIT 1976-1981, and back then, it was the GAMIT message center that
>>was always burned, smashed, painted, or whatever. I never figured out what it
>>was folks had against it other than misdirected prejudice. My policy is that
>>no matter how gays can be criticized for their innaccurate facts, or any othe
>>statistical anomolies, people should be accepted as they are, even if they
>>might be encouraged to be or do something else. Come to think of it, of all t
>>he big whop-de-do raging controversies and outrages (and there wer lots of
>>them) harassment of gays somehow never got people's attention. jews, blacks,
>>arabs, military, they go theirs, but the gays always stayed in the background
> 
>Y'know, I'd never read much of this guy's claptrap, and I just assumed the
>claptrap he was posting was crossposted from another group a la KKKra*m*r.
>But careful examination of the header, which I normally strip off, shows
>that he *hangs around here full time*! What's the male equivalent of a
>fag hag?

1) Fag Stag
-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
Xref: sparky soc.motss:58257 alt.sex.motss:2261
From: ac999273@umbc.edu (ac999273)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.sex.motss
Subject: Re: Mailing bricks, etc. (Was: Re: Fighting fundies)
Date: 24 Jan 1993 13:02:39 -0500
Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County Campus
NNTP-Posting-Host: umbc8.umbc.edu

In article <74232@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>Carson A. Gaspar writes:
>>On the other hand, my favorite technique is to take all of those
>>postage-paid cards, and put them in the mail -- completely blank.
>>They receive them in the pristene condition (not counting the USPS) in
>>which they were delivered.  This is (as far as I know -
>>#include <stddisclaimer.h>) legal and costs them postage and sorting
>>time.  Why should _I_ deal with recycling all those cards - let _them_
>>do it!
>
	I think it would be very educational for them if we all took 
Polaroids the next time we make love, and send them in the buisiness
reply mail envelopes.
	Granted, this is to easy a way to get caught (They would know
what you look like!).  So, perhaps if we just send them porn magazine
excerpts, it would do the trick.



Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tom@flood.com (Tom Chatt)
Subject: Re: Injunction GRANTED Against Amendment 2 !!YAY!!
Organization: The Flood Group, Inc.  Torrance, Ca.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 08:54:38 GMT

TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu (Tracey McCartney) writes:
| tom@flood.com (Tom Chatt) writes:
| >If this goes forward and does not get overturned, it will set a
| >tremendous precedent, establishing sexual orientation as a
| >"suspect class" for equal protection purposes. The downside is
| >that the precedent would be so tremendous that it is certain
| >to be reviewed by the Supreme Court...
|
| I am probably mistaken about this, but don't we have to be declared a
| "suspect class" by the Supreme Court *before* a strict scrutiny test
| can be applied to laws that discriminate against us? I'll ask one of
| my law professors today...

Remember, the Supreme Court *reviews* issues, they don't promulgate them.
There are only a few classes which are decidedly established as
"suspect classes", but it is not clear that the list is exclusive.
A trial judge could, I think, rule that some new sort of class meets
the criteria appropriate for a suspect class. The Supreme Court is,
of course, in a position of review.

Also, you can get to strict scrutiny in two ways: one, by involving
discrimination against a suspect class; two, by interference with
*fundamental* rights. (Again, there is a precedential canon of which
rights count as fundamental, which varies depending on which
amendment you are enforcing.) From Judge Bayless' comments, it
sounded like he may have arrived at strict scrutiny from either
(or better yet, both) of these reasons.

I'd be really interested in seeing the full text of what Judge Bayless
said. I'm mostly going off of the quotes from all of the articles that
Maria Lasaga has posted (thanks again Maria!). Let us know what your
profs say. I'm not a lawyer myself, I've just dated one, live with one,
and actually enjoy listening to my housemate's law school lecture tapes
while driving to work. :-)

-- 
Tom Chatt                        \   Don't take offense, take action.
Internet: tom@flood.com           \    Speak up. When we remain silent,
UUCP: ...!uunet!flood!tom        / \     we oppress ourselves.
From: richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Any word on military ban yet?
Date: 22 Jan 93 16:36:36 GMT
Organization: Xiola Blue

rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:

>Although a date was not mentioned, there is widespread
>speculation that the ban will be lifted by May.

Wouldn't it be nice if he decided to officially sign it, oh, say, around
25 April.  On a stage.  In Washington.  Hmmm...
-- 
a flying squirrel is richard@apple.com  Apple Computer Inc.

"Thoughts arrive like butterflies."
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tim@ear-ache.mit.edu (Tim Wilson)
Subject: Re: Blatant birthday information! : -)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
	<1jnc7dINNmu2@spim.mti.sgi.com> <1993Jan22.121209.15590@spdcc.com>
	<thaaang.727733294@cwis>
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 16:06:25 GMT

In article <thaaang.727733294@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John
Dorrance) writes: 

   John, who thinks it'll be cool to age, if only to see how he'll look
   as an adult/old guy

If you age with the same flair and humor with which you write, you'll
be lookin' mighty fine.

--
Tim Wilson
Internet:  tim@ear-ache.mit.edu	
UUCP:  mit-eddie!mit-athena!tim
Bad Colorado.  No business.
Xref: sparky soc.motss:57739 soc.bi:18771
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: NO_2
Date: 21 Jan 93 12:12:17 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1993Jan20.232830.10445@ncar.ucar.edu> holcomb@sylvester.cgd.ucar.edu (Katherine Holcomb) writes:
>In article <1993Jan20.193248.3954@spdcc.com> joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) writes:
>>
>(Stuff about rather bizarre piece of machinery deleted, subject header
>changed to reflect the paragraph below)
>>
>>-----
>>
>>I kid you not. There was another article the other day in the Observer1
>>about how Nitric Oxides functioned as sexual stimulants, with talk
>>about how it stimulates erections, and whatnot.
>>
>>Those Zany British Newspapers!
>>-- 
>
>  This has received extensive coverage recently in both Science News
>  and Scientific American.  It has been discovered recently that NO_2
>  (*not* N_2 O) functions as a neurotransmitter.   It is not a sexual
>  stimulant in the sense in which most people would understand the term.
>  What it does is cause smooth muscle to relax.  This function was
>  apparently discovered in connection with studies of impotence.  By
>  causing smooth muscle in the corpus cavernosum to relax, outlet holes
>  are blocked, causing blood to accumulate in the penis, thus causing
>  erection.  But NO_2 seems to have much more general function, and I
>  believe was found to be a neurotransmitter in the brain as well.
>  Since it's rather toxic, it seems that cells do not accumulate it, but 
>  more or less manufacture it on demand.

You read the same article! My curiosity was immediately to read how
Amyl Nitrate worked. It doesn't seem to at all be the same mechanism,
though the blood pressure dropping effect would seem to bear some
relation. 

>  Not very romantic, nor of any immediate use to those who might wish for
>  some assistance occasionally :^), but of great interest, because so little 
>  was known about what causes smooth muscle to relax. 

I always thought that Art of Noise's "Time in Love" (whatever the name
was) played at half speed worked wonderfully, as did most Barry White.
-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
From: scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Deep Space Nine: Queer Kardassians?
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:31:16 GMT
Organization: BASIS International, Ltd., Albuquerque NM USA

In article <74022@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>So far, I consider the two most interesting characters on the show
>to be Commander Sisko and Odo.

Agreed.  Kira could steal the show if the writers would let her be a
first rate Bajoran bitch.  As it turns out, we've been warned about
Bajoran women, we've met Ensign Ro and know what to expect, and Kira
seems too calm.  

Quark also has potential.  I particularly like the scene when he
brought his nephew in to the new school.  However, it was a bad
choice to use the name "Quark" since that was already taken by
the short-lived outer space sitcom, "Quark", in the late 70's starring 
Richard Benjemen.

-- 
Scott Amspoker                       |    
Basis International, Albuquerque, NM |  Too bad ignorance isn't really
                                     |  bliss.  Then it could be outlawed.
scott@bbx.basis.com                  |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: graeme@drummond.demon.co.uk (Graeme Hillary)