HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: passier@bmerh9a1.BNR.CA (Chris Passier)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Men's marathon
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:34:08 GMT
Reply-To: passier@bmerh9a1.BNR.CA (Chris Passier)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

In article <cpk-120892080317@harrier.cray.com>, cpk@sequoia.cray.com
(Chris Kruell) writes:
|>In article <1992Aug10.175247.6706@mic.ucla.edu>, rush@eggneb.astro.ucla.edu
|>(Brian Rush  Bored Grad Student) wrote:
|>> 
|>> In article <1992Aug10.234613.17211@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com>
dick@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com (Richard Chimenti) writes:
|>> >In article <36681@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, jalfano@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Clams!
Clams 4 sale!) writes:
|>> >|> During NBC's prime time coverage of the Olympic 
|>> >|> men's marathon, there was some third commentator
|>> >|> at the desk who would comment on the runners' 
|>> >|> "stride angle" and angle of hitting the pavement.
|>> >|>   Am I the only viewer who found this guy's comments
|>> >|> ridiculous?  
|>> >|>                   Joe Alfano      jalfano@uscd.edu
|>> 
|>> The 10% he mentioned can be the difference between not even making the
|>> olympic team and placing top 6 or so in the olympics.  In a way, he
|>> was not incomplete at all, since the things he mentioned are
|>> overlooked by many runners, whereas the 90% he didn't mention are
|>> noticed and worked on by everyone and thus not as big a deciding
|>> factor in close races.  That guy definitely knew what he was talking
|>> about.
|>> -BR   
|>
|>I agree with Brian.  Not only are form and efficiency often overlooked
|>by many runners, but form and efficiency have a great deal to do
|>with endurance and physical and mental factors. 
|>
|> [ .. etc., etc... ]

 I did watch the Marathon, and saw the aforementioned boob ..errr
 commentator.  I don't believe any of the people who've posted would
 argue that having a long, even (b.t.w., the S.Korean's stride wasn't
 even - 90 degrees vs. 100) stride, and minimizing bounce, may make for
 a better runner, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL. However, all things are not
 equal. In the case of the men's marathon, there were all kinds of running
 styles.  One thing they DO all have in common is that they're all very
 good runners; world class in fact. But to imply that Steve Spence was
 two or three minutes behind because of more bounce in his stride is
 just ridiculous.  I just hope there aren't a lot of aspiring marathoners
 who saw that telecast and are now hyper-analysing their strides so that
 they too can win the Olympic Marathon!
                                                                     
=======================================================================
Chris J. Passier        |splish...splash...splish...splash...splish....
passier@x400gate.bnr.ca |squeak....creak....squeak...creak...squeak....
613.763.8909            |slap slap puff..slap slap puff..slap slap puff
BNR, Ottawa, Canada     |.... aaahhhhhhhhhhh!              Just Tri It!
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: kjberte@cray.com (Kurt Bertelsen)
Subject: Help with lung problem
Reply-To: kjberte@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 13 Aug 92 14:19:51 CDT


I have been running for about 3 months.  I started out easy (1 mile - 3 times a week).
Slowly I have been working the distance up.  Now I run (4 miles 4 times a week).

Lately I have been having breathing problem about 2 miles into to run.  I just
can't get very much air into my lungs, they seem to tighten up.  I had no 
problems before.  

Had no problem with 4/4 combo for 2 weeks and was getting happy with the results.  I
was thinking of even going for another increase before this problem.

Background: Asthama problem 8 years ago.
            No cold, flu, illness, etc...
            Hayfever problem, but hasn't ever affected lungs before.
            Active in other activities (golf, b-ball, v-ball, weightlifting, tennis, biking).            

Does any one have an idea of what the problem is?



Near Breathless,
 

---
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kurt Bertelsen                  I am Connor MacLeod of the Clan MacLeod.
kjberte@cray.com                I was born in 1518 in the village of 
DoD# 0538                         Glenfinin on the shores of Loch Shere.
86 Miniceptor                   And...I am IMMORTAL.   - Highlander
From: tarmstro@metz.une.edu.au (tarmstro)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: predicting times (10k-marathon)
Date: 19 Aug 92 11:34:21 GMT

In their excellent book `Training Distance Runners' Coe and Martin come
up with three sets of formulas for determining equivalent race performances
over several distances when the performance for one distance is known. They
have three tables to counter problems of athlete specificity.

For long distance specialists (i.e 10k/15km) : Marathon = 4.76Y
                                             : 10k      = Y
                                             :  5k      = 0.48Y
                                             :  3k      = 0.28Y
                                             : 1.5k     = 0.13Y

For 3k/5k runners : 10k = 2.1Y
                  :  5k = Y
                  :  3k = 0.58Y
                  : 1.5k = 0.27Y
                  : 800m = 0.13Y
                  : 400m = 0.06Y


For `real' middle distance: 5k = 3.63Y
                          : 3k = 2.15Y
                          : 1.5k = Y
                          : 800m = 0.48Y
                          : 400m = 0.22Y

I think these `guesstimates' are pretty good, and hold up well when tested
on the runners in our teams. Only problem is I should be able to do a better
5k based on my marathon! Oh well, summer (for us down under) and track season
is almost here!

Tim
tarmstro@metz.une.oz.au
From: wolf@prosun.first.gmd.de (Wolfgang Koehler)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Help with lung problem
Date: 14 Aug 92 12:01:37 GMT
Organization: GMD-FIRST, D-1000 Berlin 10

In article <1992Aug13.141951.148@walter.cray.com>, kjberte@cray.com (Kurt Bertelsen) writes:
|> 
|> I have been running for about 3 months.  I started out easy (1 mile - 3 times a week).
|> Slowly I have been working the distance up.  Now I run (4 miles 4 times a week).
|> 
|> Lately I have been having breathing problem about 2 miles into to run.  I just
|> can't get very much air into my lungs, they seem to tighten up.  I had no 
|> problems before.  
|> 

From your posting, I would assume that you have increased your 
training extends too fast.

And, you make the mistake 90 % of all beginners : you run too fast.
(This is a  common-place, of course.)

Adaptation of all muscular,  and vascular systems of your body takes much
more time than you assume. And different systems need different times.
 
The muscles of the legs are the fastest. Usually, this brings beginners to
overestimate their abilities. 


My advise : Slow down and hold on.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ... always look on the bright side of life ... (Monty Python)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wolfgang Koehler                                    wolf@first.gmd.de

GMD - FIRST an der TU Berlin                   German National Research Centre 
                                                    for Computer Science
Fachbereich 20

Sekretariat FR 2/1


Newsgroups: rec.running
From: sagerian@delphinium.UUCP (Steve M. Sagerian)
Subject: Re: Running on cold, rainy days
Originator: sagerian@apricot43
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:51:22 GMT

From article <22926@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM>, by dguerrer@lyra.cel.scg.hac.com (Daniel Guerrero):
> In article <1992Aug17.152308.2090@vu-vlsi.vill.edu> kmv@vu-vlsi.vill.edu (Kunal M. Varty) writes:
>>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>>| Samir Misra (samir@kashi.med.upenn.edu) using Kunal's account.     |
>>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>>
>>What precautions are recommended before running on cold, rainy,
>>or cold + rainy days? What clothes? I have been running fairly
lots of stuff deleted..again
> 
> Wear a hat...most of the body's heat escapes through the head.  Wear layered
> clothing...cotton shirts.  It's more preferable to wear 3 long sleeve
> cotton shirts than 1 bulky sweat shirt.  The layering traps the warm
> air between layers and keeps your warmer.  Wear gloves.  There's 
> nothing more uncomfortable than cold hands.  Besides, it's very
> easy for the fingers to freeze. 
lots of stuff deleted..once again.

Dan,Dan..
I agree with you about the hat..its very important to keep your head covered and warm, But COTTON shirt??? Come ON! cotton does nothing to wick away sweat, it doesnt insulate when wet, it sucks for keeping the body anything but cold and wet. Get some polypropolyene or something even more high techish that 1. wicks the sweat away from the body and 2. provides some insulating properties.. and yes, do dress in layers. One other thing to remember is that people tend to over dress in cold weather (when working 





out) that causes additional sweating and you could chill more quickly. Try different amounts of layering and observe how cold you are when you first start out and at the mid point of your workout. Its surprising how warm you can become.

Steve 
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: dtodd@titan.ucc.umass.edu (David M. Todd)
Subject: Asics & impact absorption
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 11:44:47 GMT


I'm 48 and am getting back to running after a break.  Was running about
2 miles a day.  I just bought Asics Gel-120's--I liked their feel in the
store.  But now I re-check the Consumers ratings and see that even
though the Asics were rated high overall, they were not among the best
in impact absorption.  I have some trouble with my knees so this is
important to me.  I didn't like the feel of the Saucony's as well, but
now I'm wondering if I should exchange.  Suggestions?


|/ David M. Todd \ " " " " / Phone:  413/545-0158 \ " " " " /Fax: 413/545-5345\|
|DTodd@Titan.ucc.UMass.EDU [or todd@umass.bitnet or David Todd on UMass/Saturn]|
|Department of Psychology, University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA 01003   USA|
From: leonard@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (David Leonard)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: advice for hamstrings
Summary: Sciatica?
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:17:27 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Aug14.154830.4989@jpusa1.chi.il.us> kim@jpusa1.chi.il.us (Kim Heiss) writes:
>
>Anybody out there have any GOOD advice for
>hamstring injuries? ...
>...I've had a nagging (since March)
>deep, dull to sharp pain in my hamstring midway
>up (about 6" above the knee) that won't go away.
>It seems to radiate up into the inside of my leg 
>at times. It doesn't hurt to bend my knee, but
>hurts to swing my leg forward or back or to bend
>and touch my toes...
>...I have tried a number of things...
>...The worst thing is that I don't have a
>real diagnoses...

Your post caught my eye because of a similar problem I'm having.
The persistence of this thing made me suspect that my "hamstring
problem" might not be a muscle injury per se but rather a nerve
injury.  The condition is called sciatica--something wrong with
the sciatic nerve.  I checked out a book titled "Cures for Common
Running Injuries" by Steven I. Subotnick (Collier Books, 1979) to
find out about it; you may want to have a look at it.

One telltale symptom is pain when lying on your back and doing a
straight leg raise (although in my case other motions bother me
more).  Subotnick recommends checking for leg length discrepency,
foot imbalance, and lower back problems.  He also suggests stretching
the gluteal muscles and doing half sit-ups with knees bent (heels
nearly touching buttocks).

He says chiropratic manipulation may relieve pain, but it won't fix
the problem.  All in all, he makes it seem like a difficult problem--
maybe you've got something else : )

Hope you find this interesting.    --DL
Xref: sparky rec.running:2329 misc.fitness:6845
From: stieger@apee.cse.ogi.edu (Ron Stieger)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: S P E E D !!!!!
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:57:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.41754
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute, Applied Physics & Electrical Engineering, Beaverton

In article <1992Aug20.191428.1@emu.insted.unimelb.edu.au> s342053@emu.insted.unimelb.edu.au writes:
>i was just wondering what would be the most effective and productive way!
>Question: does cycling assist in the build-up of leg speed?
>Q: What's a good running shoe(grass..asphalt.....$100-$250)  ?
>Q: what about weights...will they help...should i try to build up my speed
>first and the concentrate on putting on muscle mass???

As far as the most effective way to build speed, it would be interval
training.  Short (probably 100-400m), with nearly full recovery, unless
you'd like to get some endurance too.  The number will depend on the
distance, but probably a total of 6-20 is good.  Cycling will help,too,
if you go fast, but it uses the leg muscles somewhat differently than
running.
For shoes, I like Nikes, Air Pegasus are about $70.  Sauconys are also
good, and I use them for cross country.  I think they're about $40-60.
I don't know much about weights, but I would suggest you lift while
you're training.  It's not going to hurt, as long as you don't overdo
it.

--
--Ron Stieger
  stieger@cco.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: paul@panix.com (Paul Gatker)
Subject: Re: 10k-half-marathon
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:27:11 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

>It depends on your weekly mileage.  For instance, I run 15 miles
>per week, and my best times are:

>200 meters	3:52/mile
>1 mile		5:26/mile
>5K		6:05/mile
>10K		6:20/mile
>1/2 marathon	7:00/mile
>marathon	8:00/mile

>If you run 100 miles per week, then your pace will be almost the same
>regardless of distance.

 Do you mean that if you ran 100 per week, you could come close to running
3:52 miles for an entire marathon? (O.K., you said "almost the same", so 
let's say 4:00 minute miles. 

 :->

-- 
*******************************************************************
 paul@panix.com                            COMPULITE GRAPHICS
brooklyn, ny, usa                         Design & Consultation
*********************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: kovar@world.std.com (David C Kovar)
Subject: Need to find good running shoes with a lot of arch support
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 23:51:40 GMT

  I'm trying to find running shoes that fit and have a rather high internal
arch. Nike used to make shoes that were great, but of late, they all
have low arch inserts with pads that can go under the arch. Even with
the pad, it's not high enough. Generic inserts don't work out when you're
running a lot of miles. Does Nike make other inserts?

  Also, I could run in my orthics, but they end around the ball of my foot,
leaving my toes swimming around. They're also a lot harder than the normal
insoles. Anyone know of any good ways to make them more comfortable and/or
to fill the front of the shoe? Someone suggested cutting up the insole and
glueing the front part into the front of the shoe.

  TIA!

-David
From: dawb@cam-orl.co.uk (Dave Brooke)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: carbo/Protein requirement
Date: 19 Aug 92 08:06:23 GMT
Organization: Olivetti Research Ltd, Cambridge, England.


	A while back there was a thread about carbo/protein requirements in diets, unfortunately I didn't save this, could someone please post the details again, or restart the thread for conversation on the net. The origional posting was of the recommended percentages of carbo, protein and fat.

	Does anyone belive in upping the Protein concentration in a diet for athletes?

	I ask this as I am hearing about a swim coach who is ordering his swimmers (down to about 11 years) to start drinking Protein Supplement drinks and I don't believe that this is the best recommendation for training athletes. Am i wrong or is he?

	Any ideas would be welcome.

	Thanks in advance

	dawb
From: terry@jgaltstl.UUCP (terry linhardt)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: carbo/Protein requirement
Date: 20 Aug 92 00:48:33 GMT
Organization: The Lafayette Group, St. Louis, MO.

In article <1992Aug19.200317.2234@odin.corp.sgi.com>, raym@runner.asd.sgi.com (Raymond Mascia) writes:
> In article <1992Aug19.155453.9496@cs.ucla.edu>, page@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Thomas Page) writes:

> |> The consensus from when this discussion has been had before is that runners need
> |> more protein than body builders, but even so, the average American diet |> Tom
> 
> I believe you have this reversed. Protein builds bulk.  Carbos for fuel.
> Bodybuilders want bulk.
> 
> Ray

Ray is incorrect. The original poster is correct. Endurance runners have
greater protein needs that any bodybuilder. (Because the body uses
protein for some of its energy needs as the activity takes more time,
especially beyond one hour.)

Body builders refuse to believe how little of the protein they are
consuming is used to build increased muscle. Many continue to adhere
to old myths abouts the amount of protein required, and use anecdotal
evidence to "prove" their beliefs, rather than citing valid scientific
findings.


-- 
  Terry Linhardt                ...!wupost!jgaltstl!terry 
                                terry%jgaltstl.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu  
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: jcs@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (john.c.schwebel)
Subject: Re: advice for hamstrings
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 00:25:53 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.154830.4989@jpusa1.chi.il.us> kim@jpusa1.chi.il.us (Kim Heiss) writes:
>Anybody out there have any GOOD advice for
>hamstring injuries?...

Since  you seem to have tried a lot of different remedies,
I have no real answer but just some things that might help.

I notice that biking as alternate to running seems to help my hamstring
when I start to feel chronic pain, i.e. pain that doesn't go away
but doesn't stop me from running. Biking one day seems to eliminate
the hamstring pain.

Another thing that hasn't ever seemed to help me but is often
recommended is to do strengthening exercises for the hamstring.
The theory here is that most hamstring injuries are caused by
a strength imbalance  between the quads and hamstrings.
If the quads are stronger, strengthening the hams should help.
This theory would also say that my biking shouldn't help me
because biking strenghtens the quads more than the hamstrings.

Good Luck!
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek)
Subject: Re: Soda Pop
Organization: Good place for a disclaimer
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 19:34:57 GMT

In article <834@jgaltstl.UUCP< terry@jgaltstl.UUCP (terry linhardt) writes:
<I believe the 'benefits' to caffeine, if there are any, is that
<caffeine has been linked to an increase in blood free-fatty-acid
<concentrations. IF this is true, this would be of benefit to
<marathon runners, since that would tend to conserve their
<carbohydrate supply.

<However, the studies seem to be conflicting as to whether or not
<there is any benefit to caffeine consumption.

The latest I have read (may well be obsolete) was that caffeine
was fairly effeective in raising blood FFA in the typical human,
but was ineffective in those attempting carbo loading.

-- 
And if your hand or foot offend you,         Ed Pavelchek   ekp@mcnc.org
  Cut it off, lad, and be whole;
But play the man, stand up and end you,
  When your sickness is your soul.           AE Housman
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: jmeritt@retina.mitre.org (Jim Meritt)
Subject: USMC Run in DC
Originator: jmeritt@retina.mitre.org
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Distribution: va
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:05:55 GMT


Anyone know the dates for the subject event?  Where I can call/write for
info?  I'm starting and want to plan a year ahead.

Jim


-- 
James W. Meritt:  m23364@mwunix.mitre.org - or - jmeritt@rod.mitre.org
The opinions above are mine.  If anyone else wants to share them, fine.
They may say so if they wish. The facts "belong" to noone and simply are.
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans)
Subject: Re: American Men in Olympic Marathon
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:12:48 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

In article <1992Aug13.180051.8109@Cadence.COM> rkc@kona.cadence.com (Roger Cleghorn) writes:
>Does anyone know when the American men made their moves in the Marathon? I was
>watching the triplecast and it seemed that the last that they showed any
>of the Americans, they were well behind the lead pack, with at least 30-40
>runners ahead of them. The next mention is when they finished and I believe
>that they were 11th, 12th, and 16th. Did anyone hear more details about this
>or do we have to wait for the next issue of Runner's World.

The American men didn't make any moves.  I think some of the other runners 
made anti-moves.

CHarles Yeomans
cyeomans@ms.uky.edu
yeomans@austin.onu.edu
From: ram@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Eric McKenzie)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Sweat
Keywords: Ammonia
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:09:15 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh

I've been running for a long time now and sweat profusely.  I've never been sure
whether this is a sign of a faulty or an efficient cooling system.  It doesn't matter
since I got used to it a long time ago.  The difficult thing about it is that
whenever I go to do something with a little effort, my cooling system goes into
overdrive - ".....hey! there must be a 10 miler coming up, better sweat NOW....."
and I feel uncomfortable.  Ok, so much for the preamble.  The question is this.
Very recently there has been a strong smell of, I think, ammonia from my running
vest, it's like babies' nappies (dypers sp?).  My family are complaining about the kit
hanging up to dry and I'm more than a little curious.  The smell has gone once
the kit dries.  Anyone out there with both an answer and a willingness to email me?

-- 
R.A.(Eric) McKenzie                JANET: ram@dcs.ed.ac.uk
Dept. of Computer Science
University of Edinburgh            ARPA:  ram%dcs.ed.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
Edinburgh EH9 3JZ, UK.             Tel:   031-650-5136
From: lamontg@milton.u.washington.edu (Lamont Granquist)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Soda Pop
Date: 15 Aug 92 00:27:38 GMT
Organization: 'Operation: Mindcrime'

dguerrer@lyra.cel.scg.hac.com (Daniel Guerrero) writes:
>I've read that the caffeine in the soda is a great stimulant for your
>runs.  I know people who drink coffee or soda to give their runs
>that extra "kick".  So there might be some merit to drinking soda,
>regular or diet.

Caffeine is a diuretic and can dry you out.  Lots of it + running also might
lead to acute problems with your circulation which might offset the gains from
the stimulant effect.  You'd probably need to drink more than a cup of
coffee though and certainly quite a few sodas.  I take 200mg in the morning
to offset the drowsiness from the 'script drugs I'm taking, but I wouldn't
recommend that anyone else do that much before running (unless you happen
to be somewhat intolerant).  Use in moderation, and pay attention to its
effects.  My guess is that longer distance runners would get hurt more
by taking *any* caffiene while shorter distance runners (ie. me) might get
a "kick" from a moderate amount. 
 
-- 
Lamont Granquist  lamontg@u.washington.edu  (anon: ap.2187@cupid.sai.com)
University of Washington, Seattle.    Disc: if UW ever finds out what I post... 
alt.drugs FTP site: ftp.u.washington.edu[128.95.136.1] dir:/public/alt.drugs
               For quotes and other useless info see my .plan