HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: psb@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Jr Phillip S Buckland)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: when does it make sense to reduce the
Date: 21 Jan 1993 15:26:48 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis) writes:

>In article <1jhrnbINNet1@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> psb@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Jr
>Phillip S Buckland) writes:

>	   It does ignore the time value of money, because it is
>	   representative of an aggregate return.  Money "invested" in
>	   paying down a mortgage early in the life of that mortgage
>	   can return $14 for every $1 "invested".  See my other post
>	   in this same thread for hard numbers.

>The arithmetic may be correct, but the economics is not.  It simply
>does not make sense to add $1 received today and $1 received 20 years
>from now, and call the answer $2.  "Aggregate return" seems to be a
>fancy way of assuming a 0% discount rate, i.e. assuming that $1 in 20
>years is worth the same to you as $1 today.  If you believe this,
>kindly lend me $1000 today, and I will return it to you in 20 years.

	Accepting the assumption that inflation is here to stay, and
	likewise accepting that for most people, real income doesn't
	keep up with the rate of inflation, what does that imply about
	one's financial position 20 years down the road?  All of the
	necessities of life cost more, one's income hasn't kept pace
	with inflation, so one cannot as easily afford what was easily
	afforded 20 years ago.

	What happens is that the individual is caught by inflation eroding
	the purchasing power of his/her money, while simultaneously being
	nailed by tax bracket creep.  Well under 20 years from now, I'll
	own my house.  While I plan to sock away as much of what used to
	be my mortgage payment as possible, I recognize that the economic
	realities I'll likely face than will require the diversion of
	some of that money into consumption (due to the rise in real cost
	of goods and the expected decline in real value of the dollars I
	earn).

	It seems to me to be a classic "guns or butter" scenario.  There is
	a certain level of "butter" which is required now by myself and by
	my family.  Sure, we could probably spend less on "butter" and more
	on "guns" but both my wife and I are committed to removing ourselves
	from indebtedness as realistically as possible.


We read the world wrong		| Phil Buckland
and say that it deceives us.	| psb@eece.ksu.edu
Tagore, from Stray Birds	| psb@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
From: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (patterson,george r)
Subject: Re: Breaker won't reset
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 01:43:21 GMT

In article <DRAND.93Jan22175109@spinner.osf.org> drand@spinner.osf.org (Douglas S. Rand) writes:
>
>If it won't click off then replace the breaker.  Breakers
>do die.  Take down the name of the panel manufacturer and
>start with a local homecenter.  If they don't carry the 
>breakers,  then go to an electrical supply house.

Uh...  Pull the breaker and take the breaker down (or write down the
info on the side of the breaker). I'm returning an ITE Siemans breaker
to Home Depot tonight because it wouldn't fit. The sheet pasted to the
inside of the breaker box said to use ITE Siemans. I won't bore you with
the entire list, but the first item was "QP", and this is a QP breaker.

Don't believe the panel.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    |
George Patterson -  | I'd rather fight an entire army than battle an
                    | idle rumor.
                    |              Major General Smedley Butler
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky misc.consumers.house:17242 misc.kids:33152
From: Jeff.Cook@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM (Jeff Cook)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,misc.kids
Subject: Re: Hot water too hot
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:51:37 GMT
Organization: none
In-reply-to: lowry@watson.ibm.com's message of 21 Jan 93 16:09:18 GMT

In article <LOWRY.93Jan21110918@rotor.watson.ibm.com> lowry@watson.ibm.com (Andy Lowry) writes:

>I live in a cooperative apartment building, and the hot water from the
>faucet is scaldingly hot.  This concerns me because I fear my 16
>month-old daughter will soon be able to reach and operate some
>faucets, including the bathroom tub and sink faucets...
>...if
>there are reasonable steps I could take to make this hazard simply go
>away in my apartment, I'd be interested in finding out about them...

Although there is a danger with the sinks, your main concern should be
the tub.  It's likely that if she touches hot water coming out of the
sink faucet, she'll reflexively pull away, limiting the injury.  If
she's in the tub, though, the situation could get serious very quickly.

If your faucets have separate hot and cold knobs, you could try removing
the screws that hold the hot-water knobs in place.  That way you could
pull the knobs off and put them out of her reach when you're not using
them.

If your faucets are the single-knob type, you might try shutting off the
hot-water valve under the sinks, and keep her out of the bathroom with a
gate or child-proof doorknob cover.

(I've cross-posted this to misc.kids, because this discussion would be
of interest to those readers as well.)
--

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Cook                                  Jeff.Cook@FtCollinsCO.NCR.com
"Millions long for immortality who do not    bx711@cleveland.FreeNet.Edu
know what to do with themselves on a rainy      72506.237@compuserve.com
Sunday afternoon."  -- Susan Ertz                 Compuserve:  72506,237
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: pazar@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Steve Pazar)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 01:24:06 GMT
Subject: Re: HELP! electrical problem
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house

John,
  If I were you, I'd find the source of the problem ASAP. Let me relate
  my experiences... Late one evening, my dog started barking out in the
  garage. Not an uncommon event, but I decided to check and see what
  he was barking at. Found a garage FULL of smoke! Definite smell of 
  burning plastic and ozone (due to arcing). I immediatly pulled the 
  main fuses. The problem was caused by worn insulation on two 8 gauge
  cables where they were clamped to the fuse box! The clamp had been
  overtightened when the box was installed 26 years before. The circuit
  was fused for 40 Amps...i.e.- it would have taken a lot to blow the
  fuses. The 2X4's on either side of the box were black and smoldering.
  Upon further inspection, I found several other cables that had 
  varying degrees of insulation worn off in the area of the clamps.
  I warned my neighbors...two found the same thing! One didn't believe
  be...his garage burned down about 1 year later. 

  If your box is easily accessable, check for this. Electrical fires
  can be especially nasty because they are often in walls/attics, and
  may not be detected until its too late! Good luck!!!

***************************************************************************
*  STEVE PAZAR           DoD #702           Kawasaki KZ440A
*  E-mail:   pazar@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com
*  Ether:    WA4DUT/6
*  " Imagination is more important than knowledge "
***************************************************************************

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: Kevin W. Ramer <ramer@nrc-iris.nrc.uab.edu>
Subject: Closing formalities re: seller paid costs
Organization: Neurobiology Research Center
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:11:21 GMT


I am scheduled to close on my 1st house next Wed.  I have obtained the 
(mostly) blank forms that will be signed at that time.  
In a review I have come across a potential problem (read: more money 
from my pocket :-[ )

The seller as agreed to pay certain closing costs (attorney's fee,Title
ins. \
and 1 discount point) .  As such the mortgage company rep wrote the
application
with *no origination* and 1 discount (effectively the seller pays
origination
and the interest rate is not decreased :-< ).

In the loan application form in the section "Details of Transaction"
there is
a line: "Discount (if borrower will pay)" with the amount entered.  

Should I consider this a mistake by the clerk that filled out the form ?
A formality
of closing that requires this to appear ?  Our contract does read in the
clause
dealing with the payment/reimbursement of closing costs being contingent
on 
closing. 

Any experiences, opinions, advice will be appreciated.

Please respond to:
ramer@nrc-iris.nrc.uab.edu
or:
ramer@nrc3d.nrc.uab.edu

Thanks in advance.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: bglenden@colobus.cv.nrao.edu (Brian Glendenning)
Subject: Buying a FSO?
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:07:13 GMT


My wife and I might have found a "For Sale By Owner" house that we
would like to buy. Are there any particular pitfalls to watch out for
here?

Brian
--
       Brian Glendenning - National Radio Astronomy Observatory
bglenden@nrao.edu          Charlottesville Va.           (804) 296-0286
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: garyp@rmtc.paramax.com (Gary Palangian [RMTC/ISP])
Subject: Re: Sealing exterior siding, Summary
Organization: Paramax Systems
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:30:15 GMT

In article <1993Jan19.180701.23353@VFL.Paramax.COM>, garyp@rmtc.paramax.com (Gary Palangian [RMTC/ISP]) writes:
|> Hey Now,
|> 
|> My house is ready to be finish sided.  The framers put up the plywood and
|> reflective insulative siding and the siders will now put up the
|> finish siding (pre-painted wood product of some sort).
|> 
|> But there are little gaps all over the rough siding.  Places where
|> the boards don't quite fit snug against each other... And even one
|> place where there is about a 3" diameter hole knocked through
|> the insulative siding.  I talked to the framing dudes about it
|> and they said it wasn't important because the exterior siding would
|> provide a strong seal.
|> 
|> I'm not so sure.  Any advice... Suggestions... would be appreciated.
|> I was thinking about going in myself and filling the cracks with spray
|> foam or something.
|> 
|> 
|> Thanks,
|> 
|> 
|> Gary P.

I got about 8 replies to my post.  2 suggested that my lack of
construction expertise is reflected in the poor terminology in
the post.  I regret that I have but a limited understanding of
construction and must apologize for any confusion or anxiety caused
by improper terminology.  

2 others suggested that I had a lousy builder and that I am
crazy for letting them frame the house.  What is done is done and
can not be undone.

The rest suggested that it was common for framers to build using
a "sloppy" fit on the plywood and insulative barrior on the
outside of the house frame.  It is not uncommon to see such gaps,
sometimes up to 1" between plywood sheets.  2 respondants suggested
that special tape is available to seal such cracks.  A call to
my local hardware store confirmed this.  It was also
suggested that a vapor barrier is often placed between the rough
siding and the finish siding.  2 suggested that spraying flame
resistent, insulative foam into these cracks after the exterior
siding had been installed would probably be a good move and
would certainly reduce the anxiety involved in wondering how
much I was paying to heat the garden for as long as I owned th house.
I have decided that this is what I will do and am fortunate that
20 oz. spray cans of this foam are on sale at the local hardware store
for $3.59/can.

Thanks to everybody...


If you are having a house built, you may want to check this out.


Party On...

Gary P.

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: breland@cobweb.mcc.com (Mark A. Breland)
Subject: Re: when does it make sense to reduce the
Reply-To: breland@cobweb.mcc.com
Organization: MCC
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:33:09 GMT

In article 93Jan21124235@lakatos.osf.org, macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis) writes:
>
>No.  This is still not right.  For a given monthly payment, you will
>get out of debt faster if you first pay off high interest rate loans
>(e.g. credit cards) and only then start paying off lower interest rate
>loans (e.g. mortgage).

Sigh, I *really* didn't want to get sucked into this, so I'm only going to
say this once and ignore the followups (however lengthy, detailed, full of
examples they may be).  EVERY person's case is unique: different income;
paid-off assets; leveraged assets; tax liability; consumer credit; and
so on.  But whatever a person's situation is, they pay one entity or
another.  With a high income, no debt, and no shelters...they pay taxes (lots).
With a middle income, mortgage payment, and a little consumer debt...they
pay a lower tax offset by their mortgage interest and some interest to
their bank.  With a high income and lots of consumer debt...they pay lots
of taxes and lots of interest to their bank.  The only folks who don't
have to worry about paying anything haven't earned anything to pay with
anyhow.

So I stand by my original assertion, run your own numbers and make your own
choice as to what approach is of the greatest benefit to your unique case.
What's right for Stavros (or Mark for that matter) may not necessarily be
right for you.

---
Mark A. Breland - Microelectronics and Computer Technology Corporation (MCC)
Ada Fault Tolerance                               | voice:    (512) 338-3509
3500 West Balcones Center Drive                   | FAX:      (512) 338-3900
Austin, Texas 78759-6509   USA                    | internet: breland@mcc.com
From: plotkin@spliz.East.Sun.COM (David Plotkin - Sun NYC Consulting)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: window rehabilitation
Date: 28 Jan 1993 18:44:13 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: plotkin@spliz.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: spliz.east.sun.com

This ties in with the recent discussion on 100 year old houses.

My new home is 100 years old, and the windows are in bad shape.
Some have broken panes, some stick, the locks are misaligned, they
have 20 coats of paint, the paint is chipped, the color is horrible, etc. 

I'm looking for suggestions on easy, moderate, and difficult rehabilitation.
Easy would be something like fix panes and paint, where harder repairs
might involve removing and possibly stripping (dipping?) the window.
What's a sensible order of tasks?

What would you suggest for stripping paint off a window (frame, mullions)
in place?

Thanks for the tips.

	dp
From: thc@dartmouth.edu (Thomas Cormen)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: HELP! electrical problem
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:36:12 GMT
Distribution: misc.consumers.house
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

When I was renting a house once, I had a somewhat similar problem.
The lights would dim, and the TV would fade for several minutes.
Turning electric burners on and off made everything dim or be slightly
restored.  The problem would come and go, sometimes not occurring for
months.

Finally it started happening a lot.  It turned out there was a short
in the meter.  PG&E (this was near Santa Cruz) had to come out and fix
it.

Thomas H. Cormen
Assistant Professor
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
Dartmouth College
Email: cormen@dartmouth.edu
From: pauld@cs.washington.edu (Paul Barton-Davis)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: adding a range hood, which circuit ?
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:26:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Precipitating Pendulums Postal Party Poopers


	My quick guide to the NEC tells me that
	a range hood cannot be wired on the same
	circuit as general lighting, but can be 
	on a small appliance circuit.

	If so, what would be I violating by plugging
	a range hood outlet into an existing socket
	that was on a general lighting circuit ?
	Common Sense ? Anything ?
	
-- paul

ps. yeah. I know, call my local building department. I will,
    but your input is appreciated.
-- 
hybrid rather than pure; compromising rather than clean;    | Militant Agnostic
distorted rather than straightforward; ambiguous rather than| I Don't Know
articulated; both-and rather than either-or; the difficult  |   and You Don't
unity of inclusion rather than the easy unity of exclusion. |   Know Either
Xref: sparky misc.consumers.house:17422 misc.kids:33498
From: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,misc.kids
Subject: Re: Hot water too hot
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:58:45 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu
Originator: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu


chrz@tellabs.com (Peter Chrzanowski) writes:
> Renee@cup.portal.com (Renee Linda Roberts) writes:
> > Tell the landlord (or property cooperative leaders) to turn it down! It
> > wastes energy, especially if it is over 140 degrees.
> 
> I agree with this.
> 
> The original objection was that dishwashers don't work properly unless the
> water is at least 140F.  That's true, but it's also true that most modern
> dishwashers have pre-heat capability: if the incoming water is not hot
> enough, they'll heat it until it is.

Pity that none of the apartments or houses I've ever lived in have had
a dishwasher with pre-heat capability. Where do you get this "most" figure?
Shopping for new dishwashers? How many apartments (that are affordable) 
have new dishwashers? It would be great, but....

Paula Burch
pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: tln@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (teresa.l.green)
Subject: Undercounter Washer/Dryer
Keywords: washer dryer builtin
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:40:53 GMT

Hi -
	I recently saw an article in which the washer and dryer
were installed under a kitchen counter.  Does anyone know of any
company, besides ASKO, that have an undercounter washer and dryer 
model? Any experiences good or bad with this type of washer and 
dryer? How is the washer drain hooked up? 
					Thanks,
						Teresa
						teresa@ihlpm.ATT.COM
From: vonzelow@adobe.com (Jon von Zelowitz)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Electrical wiring-- 'Sharing' a 220V circuit
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:02:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: adobe.1993Jan25.220207.14715
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View

In article <Jan20.163026.48896@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> mglacy@lamar.ColoState.EDU () writes:
>I'm putting a 5kw 220 electric resistance heater in my garage.  It 
>must live on a 30A circuit.  This will leave considerable excess
>ampacity over the rated load + 25% required (to my understanding)
>by the NEC.  I'd like to run some lighting (say 200W max) at 110V
>on one side of the 220 circuit. (This would enable me to keep the other
>circuit in the garage as a power-tools-only circuit.)
>
>Would this be safe and acceptable?

Since none of the "pros" have answered yet, I will venture the following:
1. The heater should be under 80% of the dedicated heater circuit's
   capacity. If you do the calculation, you will find that the difference
   is not "considerable".
2. Even if you could get away with a hack like that, you would limit
   your future expandability. Why not do it right and add another
   110V circuit?

   Jon von Zelowitz   vonzelow@mv.us.adobe.com   ...uunet!adobe!vonzelow
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: gey@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (gerald.e.yingling)
Subject: RE: Noisy ductwork question
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:31:08 GMT
Keywords: I had similar problem


I had the same problem on my ranch when I moved a few years ago.  My 
ducts are attached (nailed) to the floor joists by metal hangers 
like this: (sorry for the crude ASCII diagram)


	|  |            |  |
	|  |            |  |  < -- Joists
	----		----
	----		----
	|  ^             ^ | <-- hanger
	|   \   nails /    |
	|------------------|  <-- binding on both sides between duct and
	|	duct	   |      hanger because the hangers were
	|		   |      where too tight to duct, specially at 
	|		   |      top of duct.
	|------------------|
	---		----
	 ^                ^
	    \  screws   /   

I couldn't remove the nails to reposition the hangers to allow more
room between the top of the duct and the hangers because the top
of the duct is about 1/2 inch from the joist so I jammed a screwdriver
between the duct and the hanger and "bowed" the hanger away from the side
of the duct (on both sides).  This allowed the duct to expand as it grows 
longer due to heating and eliminated the gringing, popping noises caused
when the duct moved relative to the hangers.  I thought of putting some 
kind of lubricant but didn't want to put oil (or something that I might 
breath because it might leak into the duct).  Every once in a while I 
have to bow one of the hangers out to stop the noise - I probably will 
find a permant solution one of these days.  Hope this helps - Jerry

Xref: sparky misc.consumers.house:17334 misc.forsale:36264
From: frank@marvin.contex.com (Frank Perdicaro)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,misc.forsale
Subject: For Sale
Date: 25 Jan 93 15:41:34 GMT
Followup-To: misc.consumers.house

For Sale:   Two French Doors, one electric damper.

   1 36 x 80 x 1 3/8, 15? light, all wood construction.  Drilled for
      lock set.  Good condition, all glass intact, painted white.  $25.
   
   1 36 x 80 x 1 5/8, 15? light, all wood construction.  Drilled for
      lock set.  Good condition, all glass intact, painted white.  $25.

   1 7 inch electric flue damper, suitable for gas furnace.  New in
      box, with instructions and warrenty card.  $20.

   Please reply by email.

-- 
	 Frank Evan Perdicaro 				Xyvision Color Systems
      Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.		101 Edgewater Drive
   inhouse: frank@marvin, x5572				Wakefield MA
outhouse: frank@contex.com, 617-245-4100x5572		018801285
From: mcnally@wsl.dec.com (Mike McNally)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Water heater temperatures
Date: 21 Jan 1993 20:18:05 GMT
Organization: DEC Western Software Lab
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: venice.pa.dec.com

I've thought for a while that the widespread practice of
setting the water heater temperature down to 120 (or even
lower) is unwise because such temperatures encourage lots
of microorganisms to flourish.  My preference would be to
keep the water as high as possible, and then (should a baby
take up residence in my house) simply keep uninformed tiny
people *away* from hot water faucets.

Am I alone?

--
==============y=o=u='=r=e===a=l=l===s=t=e=a=m=e=d===u=p===j=o=e================
   Mike +   Software +   Digital Equipment +   Western Software +      mcnally@
McNally +    Laborer +         Corporation +         Laboratory +   wsl.dec.com
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: hubcap@hubcap.clemson.edu (System Janitor)
Subject: Re: Cat Repellant
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:04:20 GMT

egreen@East.Sun.COM (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher) writes:

>People who let their animals/kids run wild, then expect everyone to put
>up with it in the name of "neighborliness" are arrogant, rude,
>presumptuous, and undeserving of either the title or the consideration
>due a "neighbor."

Right.

And in the middle there is a compromise that allows the cat to live and
the neighbor to watch his birds. 

I live in the country (100 acres, not 5) and my fixed cat goes out
when he pleases. 

A nice neighbor's dog used to come around my house a lot. Once day he ate
a bunch of CDs I left on my porch. After that, I was very unpleasant to the
dog (I had to go a little out of my way to do this) and now the dog
doesn't come around anymore and he's not dead or tied to a tree either.

I'm not suggesting that everyone in the heart of the 1/4 acre suburbs
let their dogs and cats run free, but that's not where the original poster
lives.

-Mike
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house