HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: esprit@netcom.com (Alan F. Perry)
Subject: Re: U.S. maufacturers
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 02:38:13 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Aug30.154244.26861@morrow.stanford.edu> jeff@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Jeff Freymueller) writes:
>In article <1992Aug30.123217.10052@hasler.ascom.ch> kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch writes:
>>
>>In article <1992Aug29.205717.21955@morrow.stanford.edu>, jeff@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Jeff Freymueller) writes:
>>|> 
>>|>  There is also no question
>>|> (IMO) that the North American series have closer competition and
>>|> better racing for the spectator.
>>
>>Are you joking? Indycar/Nascar/etc. is so mind numbingly boring that
>>it has next to no interest outside of the US, is it really racing? 
>>
>Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I guess you find people racing for
>the lead mind-numbingly boring.  For me, watching Nigel Mansell lap the
>field is pretty dull. The only time this season in F1 that the lead cars
>have been close has been on Mickey Mouse nowhere-to-pass circuits when
>everyone has lined up behind Senna.
>>
>>|>  Can a made
>
>>|> in USA car compete with a Made in UK car?
>>
>>Probably not,  european designers/companies have  proven
>>time and time again their superiority in implementing/designing new ideas. I
>>think a short list was mentioned recently (outside radiators/mid engine etc).
>>
>>Not to say that such technologies/design expertise didn't exist in the US but
>>with the lack of decent racing/competition there was no reason
>>for such an industry to exist and now, when there is some need, the work is
>>farmed out to other countries(mainly Britain), all IMHO of course. Imagine
>>if the engineering effort/budget for the stealth fighter had been put into
>>an F1 project :-).
>>
>>kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch
>
>As I said before, the european racing teams have always had a higher-tech
>product than those in the US. But there is no reason it couldn't be done
>here, except for the cost of startup since, as you say, the industry basically
>doesn't exist. Although I believe that both the Nissan and Toyota GTP cars
>are made in the USA. Not F1-level technology, but still not bad.

Well, why couldn't it all be done in southern CA with all the aerospace
stuff going on there?  There was some discussion about England having
the best combination of elements so most of it gets done there, but, as
far as equipment and people to make the cars, So Cal has it too.

Now finding an American to design the cars is another matter.  The
English seem particularly good at that.

alan

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: andyw@meaddata.com (Andy Welter)
Subject: Re: PAYTON'S PLACE
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:11:03 GMT
Reply-To: andyw@meaddata.com

In article 23312@cbfsb.cb.att.com, kevinc@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (kevin.j.coulter) writes:
>In article <q6cnqgp@lynx.unm.edu> canders@lacerta.unm.edu (Cliff Anderson CIRT) writes:
>>There was a recent article in the local news paper that noted  Walter Payton's
>>auto racing career is on the up stroke.  Does anybody out there know how good
>>he really is and, how long will it be before we see him behind the wheel at
>>INDY or DAYTONA?
>
>I have seen walter at both desmoines and road america this year. Its
>safe to say he's bought the best equipment. All thats lacking is some
>help in the drivers compartment. While I'm not saying he's bad, lets
>just say its a good thing he made his money in football. While he
>finished 10th and desmoines, and I think 8th at road america, it was due
>to attrition, not fabulous driving. At road america, he was gridded 16th
>I believe. 
>

One thing you do have to give Payton credit for is not trying to waltz in and 
buy a ride without getting experience first.  I saw Payton 3-4 years ago in a 
Sports 2000 race at Mid-Ohio, so he has been trying to pay some dues.  

Of course the one thing I remember from that race is that he spent quite alot 
of time in the grass.  :-)
---
|Andrew Welter	     |  All views are mine and not |      (513) 865-6822   
|Mead Data Central   |    that of my employer      |        Online M&R       
|P.O. Box 933        |                             |     andyw@meaddata.com
|Dayton, Ohio  45401 |          	           | ...!uunet!meaddata!andyw

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Rahal Comment
Keywords: competition
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:31:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.134257.29271@cbfsb.cb.att.com> mini11@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (mark.kearney) writes:
>
>What was with Rahal yesterday after his accident? The way I saw it was
>Stefan Johannson and Bobby were racing. To say Stefan shouldn't try and
>race to win because he's doesn't have any championship points is absurd!
>Given the course limitations for passing areas I'm assuming Stefan thought
>he could get by Bobby. I know Tony B. doesn't spend his money to just
>finish each race. Every team is there to win!
>

In today's Toronto Star, it has Johannson's reply saying that Rahal
missed a gear shift, which was the reason he attempted a pass.

If Rahal didn't like the fact that Johannson was too close on his
tail, he just should have let him by or run harder.  The argument that
"I'm in a championship fight so noone should try to pass me" seems a
bit lame.

It seemed to me that Rahal was running conservatively, conserving fuel
and waiting for a yellow to bring Michael back to him, while running
hard enough just to block Johansson....and he got caught.

Gerald
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti)
Subject: Re: Alesi VS Schumacher
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 08:03:43 GMT

In article <92247.082537JFS10@psuvm.psu.edu>, Jonathan Swaby <JFS10@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
|> I bring this up because Berger has #1 status at Ferrari, while Schumacher
|> has the same at Benetton. I think Alesi should share the same status as
|> Berger.

Apparently, Niki Lauda thinks that Berger deserves #1 status at Ferrari.
If or how much this has to do with both Lauda and Berger being Austrians
is a different thing.  I tend to agree with Lauda even though I'm not
Austrian ;-)  (Of course, I share with them a German mother tongue.)
In any case, it will be interesting to see which of the two Ferrari
drivers will be the faster.  The same is true of the 93 Benetton duo,
regardles of who is their #1.  I for one have not heard anything that
Schumacher will be #1 and Patrese #2 in 93.  Indeed, I believe that
currently, Schumacher and Brundle have equal status.

 
-- 
Robert Marti                    |  Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60
Informationssysteme             |  FAX:      +41 1 262 39 73
ETH-Zentrum                     |  E-Mail:   marti@inf.ethz.ch
CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland     |
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: cjp53999@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Cory James Padfield)
Subject: Re: Lola BMS Scuderia Italia (was Re: Road America 200 Results)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:59:38 GMT

jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu (Jay C. Smith) writes:

>In article <7146687106226@c00482-224wi.eos.ncsu.edu> I wrote:
>>In related news:  After the F1 sponsorship deal with Texaco fell through, 
>>Lola is now joining forces with Larrousse to form the Lola BMS Scuderia 
>>Italia team.  Ferrari will continue to supply the engines.  Michael Andretti 
>>was widely thought to be first in line for a seat on a Lola F1 team, but I 
>>don't think he'll be interested in what has been Ferrari's "B" team.

>It has been pointed out to me that this sounds like I'm confusing Venturi-
>Larrousse with Dallara BMS Scuderia Italia.  And I agree, but here's the
>blurb as it appeared in AutoWeek:

>LOTTA LOLAS.  The Lola factory will be busy in the coming months, building
>Indycars, the fleet of new Indy Lights and preparing for a return to F1.
>Lola Cars is joining forces with Gerard Larrousse to create a new Lola BMS
>Scuderia Italia team.  Ferrari will be the engine supplier but it has not
>been announced whether J. J. Lehto and Pierluigi Martini will keep the seats
>they've had on Larrousse's team.

      You are quoting from Autoweek, and that story is very WRONG. Lola will
be building cars with Dallara, not Larrousse. Ferrari engines will be used.
Autoweek must have been asleep when they printed this one.

>I leave it to the reader to figure this out.  And remember, this comes from
>the folks who said Patrick Racing was going to become a subsidiary of 
>Newman-Haas Racing (do you think someone told them Carl H. was going to
>buy Patrick, and it turned out to be Hogan rather than Haas?).

>I just love silly season stuff....

>--
>Jay C. Smith
>Domain/internet: jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu  uucp: ...!mcnc!ncsuvx!eos!jcsmith
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Good.  For a minute I thought we were in trouble."

  

Regards,
Cory
From: tvp53202@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Toby Vaughn Padfield)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1 Qualifying tYres.
Date: 4 Sep 92 16:56:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bu2CEw.F1s
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Richard Beckett) writes:


>	What happened to qualifying tYres then ?
>	I thought they were still in use.

>	Cheers,


>		RIK


>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Rik O'Chet, Bristol, England.		
>Email: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com		One's never alone with a Rubber Duck !


	Since Goodyear is the only supplier of tires this year, they did away
qualifying tires. If Bridgestone and/or Michelin come in '94, then there would
be a return of them. The reasons quallies are used is to provide maximum trac-
tion for maybe 2 laps, usually only one. That means it is EXTREMELY costly to
go out and use 2 or 3 sets of EXPENSIVE tires per Q session, plus your normal
racing tires. If Goodyear is the only one, they don't make them!!! Hope this
helps!

TOBY...
From: burden_d@oass.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1: Answers to recent trivia
Date: 28 Aug 92 21:48:10 GMT
Reply-To: burden_d@oass.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


>How about 1986 When Prost won the WC at Adelaide after Mansell's blowout?

What's the question?  Prost clinched the title on the last race of
the season (16/16).....

--
Dave Burden                                      ______--------___
Digital Equip Corp - Alpharetta, GA             /|             / |
                                     o___________|_\__________/__|
burden_d@oass.enet.dec.com          ]|___     |   |=  ||  =|___  |"
                                    //   \\   |   |___||_///   \\|"
                                    |  X  |\-------------/|  X  |\"
                                     \___/ 1924 Studebaker \___/
					Special 6 Touring Car
From: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Richard Beckett)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 12:29:36 GMT
Subject: Re: Two +/- zero
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Labs, Bristol, UK
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Reply-To: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com


	If a team could run more than two cars, then winning the constructors
	championship would be made a lot easier.


	Cheers,


		RIK


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rik O'Chet, Bristol, England.		
Email: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com		One's never alone with a Rubber Duck !
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: pmh2962@zeus.tamu.edu (Pat Hayes)
Subject: Re: Rahal has a big mouth
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Department of Meteorology, TAMU
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 01:58:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.193617.25402@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, ngoldber@nyx.cs.du.edu (norm goldberg) writes...
> 
>     Can you believe the nerve of Rahal to say that he is the championship
>leader and you don't race him because of that very reason!? I think Rahal

...chomp...

>     Personally that is what i feel makes the europeans much better
>drivers.They give 100% and never give an inch to anybody regardless of who
>they racing.They come from a much tougher school.Right now the only guy i

.. American drivers come up through wildly varying "schools".  You name
it -- sprint cars, off-road racing, late-model stocks, quarter-mile stuff,
formula series, karts, bikes, etc.  A driver forms a style acceptable to
the norms of the series' he came from.  I wager a guy from USAC midgets,
sprints, and ASA stock cars will drive differently than someone growed
up through open-wheel formula cars or bikes.

>can see capable of driving with the F1 boys is Micheal A. Little Al is
>just to nice.
      ^^^ huh???!!

.. uh, I recall seeing "nice guy" Little Al snuff someone good yesterday
(Sunday).  Al drove inside of the other bloke, locked up the skins, and
all but hosed the guy right into the tire barrier -- can't remember who the
hose-ee was?  And Michael E. had a great shot at (I think) C. Danner; the
ESPN guys had a camera perfectly spotted to catch Michael use the white car
in front as a rolling brake cushion.  Replay caught it very nicely. The
guy in front completely missed the corner and skidded into the rolloff
area.  Oh, well . . . 

	IMO, great coverage by ESPN.  In spite of the walk by MiAn, who had me 
worried with all that smoke at his last pitstop, it was a great race to watch!
Woulda liked to have seen the Target boys (Cheever and Gordon) finish; if
Eddie didn't have BAD luck . . . 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Pat Hayes, Meteorology. INT: pmh@tamu.edu BIT: pmh2962@tamzeus !whoop --
-- O&M 1008   Texas A&M University   CS, TX  77843-3150   (409) 845-1680 --
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

p.s. -- oh, yeah -- I think Rahal was WAY offbase with that whining stuff about
"I'm the points leader--you stay outta my way".  Sheesh!
From: unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: rec.autos.sport
Date: 2 Sep 92 05:57:04 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

>t9014143@phillip.edu.au writes:
>>Reading last year's Belgian race report(by John Berton) I came across the term
>>		T-car 

Eugene Harold Mcnay Ii writes:
>At INDY, 'T' refers to a backup car with teh same number with a little
>'T' appended so they can be told apart. Often the "big guys" will run
>both cars a little and then pick the one that feels best to keep working
>on.

There's some controversy (among noted 500 historians) about the origin of
the 'T' cars.  The most common explanation is that 'T' stands for 'Test'
car, but seems to be traced to the influx of F1 drivers in the 60's.  There
is a reference to Kelly Petillo driving a 'Training' car at the Speedway in
1935 and some think this is where the designation comes from.....

Rob U, I suspect some guy painting the car heard 'T' instead of 'B' (Backup)

--
-       Rob Unglenieks             REAL race cars DON'T wear BOWTIES       -
-     "Our task must be to free ourselves by widening our circle           -
-      of compassion to embrace all living creatures."                     -
-                           -  Albert Einstein                             -
From: biomelih@buengc.bu.edu (Melih Ucar)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: 1000 Lakes Rally (thanks...)
Keywords: 1000 lakes, WRC
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:28:54 GMT
Followup-To: rec.autos.sport
Organization: College of Engineering, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: biomelih@buengc.bu.edu


>>THE RALLY OF THE THOUSANDS LAKES (JYVASKYLAN SUURAJOT)
>>======================================================

	I'd like to thank Mika Paakko and Kimmo Kavranen very much for the
detailed information they have provided on 1000 lakes rally. (being in the
"thanks but we will broadcast NASCAR, CART and F1, who cares even half an hour
about the World Rally Championship" of United States, I really appreciate it a
lot). Please keep up the good work not only in 1000 lakes but in other
upcoming races !!

>> The young Finnish driver 
>>Marcus Gronholm had a very good start, but in the SS 5 he drove away 
>>from the road. It is not sure that he will continue. He was driving 
>>Carlos Sainz's Toyota.

Please excuse me from asking but what has happened to Carlos Saintz ?? Is he
injured or he did not participate in 1000 lakes (which I find very unlikely) ?

Also can you guys post the current driver and car standings in WRC before this
race ?

	Thanks and thank you again ...

Melih Ucar
From: danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Rahal/Johansson/Mario/Tracy
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:07:34 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

Dan West writes:

>I find it very funny that when people defend Johansson they say that
>he was "just being aggessive" when IMHO he clearly screwed up. I mean
>where in the hell was he going to put the car? But when Mario hits
>Tracy or Little Al or ..... he is said to be screwing up. Sorry but I
>dont see any difference. I think they were both careless. I realize
>there is a very fine line between hard racing and carefree driving,
>but in Mario`s cases and in Johansson's case(this time) they crossed
>the line.

I think there was quite a bit of difference between the Andretti/Tracy
incident, and the Johansson/Rahal incident.  You are correct in that
in both cases Andretti and Johansson made mistakes.  However, Andretti's
mistake was very severe and Tracy had no chance.  Johansson lost quite
a bit of control of the car, but not to the degree Mario did.  IMO, Rahal
should have been able to stay wide and avoid the contact, but because he
was racing so aggressively, he held his normal line and contact occured.
You can argue that Rahal could not see that Johansson was in trouble, but
that will be your opion.  I don't agree.  It was Rahal's choice to defend
his position so aggressively and he paid the price.  

>I think that Bobby's comments were a bit out of line, and he probably
>wishes he would have calmed down before he said anything. But I
>believe any of the point leaders would have reacted the same way.

I have alot of respect for Rahal and consider his comments out of character.
Like you say, he probably didn't have time to cool down.

And was it possible for him to see his suspension damage from the cockpit?  If
so, why didn't he exit the car immediately.  He couldn't dream of continuing
after that, or does he think he's a GOB.

As far as the Al Jr/Fittipaldi incident, this was much closer to a racing
incident.  Jr had a chance, but Fittipaldi closed the door.  I'm not blaming
Fittipaldi, but I don't agree with his comments about Jr later.

Dan Jones
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: meier@rtc.atk.com (Christopher M. Meier)
Subject: Re: NASCAR: request for Bristol results
Organization: Alliant Techsystems, Inc., Mpls, MN
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:57:51 GMT

To: deanb@pecan10.cray.com
Subject: Re: NASCAR: request for Bristol results
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Organization: Alliant Techsystems, Inc., Mpls, MN
Cc: 
Bcc: 

From my Sunday Star Tribune:

FP. Name        Laps    My Comment
--  ----        ----    ----------
1.  DW          500     Dominated
2.  Dale E              Plugged Along
3.  Ken S
4.  Kyle P
5.  Alan K      499
6.  Bill E.
7.  Jimmy H.
8.  Ricky R.
9.  Brett B.            Splash of Gas
10. Rusty W.    498     Lapped Early On
11. Geoff B.    497     Splash of Gas
12. Derrike C.
13. Morgan S.
14. Michael W.
15. Sterlin M.  495
16. Richard P.  493
17. Dale J.     492
18. Jim Sauter  491
19. Wally D.    489
20. Jimmy S.    487
21. Bobby H.    484
22. Ted M.      476
23. Dick T.     446
24. Jimmy M.    395
25. Mark M.     385     Lost it
26. Harry G.    349     Bumped by lapped car
27. Hut S.      339
28. Ernie I.    285     Lost it
29. Rick M.     274
30. Davey A.    262     Lost it, twice
31. Terry L.    125
32. Dave M.     101

In article <1992Aug31.090606.11152@hemlock.cray.com> you write:
>Could somebody do me a favor and post (or send me e-mail) the complete
>finishing order of Saturday nights race at Bristol. Laps completed for
>each driver too. My local newspapers printed nothing about the race, not
>even who won. And the always reliable (ya, right) USA Today printed the
>top 10 and that was it. I subscribe to Winston Cup Scene, but that will
>get to me in about 2 weeks (I find that real helpful).
-- 
 ____________________________________________________________________________
|                           |                            ________            |
|    Christopher M Meier    | Alliant Techsystems, Inc. |        |           |
| Senior Research Scientist | Research and Technology   | ALLIANT|TECHSYSTEMS|
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: tlm1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Terry Matula)
Subject: TV Rights Wars (Was: Televised Events #92-33)
Organization: Mississippi State University
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:45:05 GMT

deanb@pecan10.cray.com (Dean Barker) writes:

>This reminds me. What is the story with TNN vs. ESPN??? The last 3 or 4
>weeks Inside Winston Cup with host Ned Jarrett has started out with "due
>to contractual problems we are not allowed to show any highlights from last
>weeks races." What's the deal here? This isn't helping ESPN or TNN or the fans
>or the drivers or the sponsers or .... It isn't helping anybody.

I too have noticed this.  I also think it was TNN vs. CBS (highlights of 
the 2nd Michigan race).  

I think it may have started back during The Winston.  TNN of course covered
the race, and then promptly refused to give ESPN's Speedweek the right to
show the exciting finish.  So maybe ESPN has decided give TNN a little taste
of their own medicine?

Hope this trend doesn't continue...

--
Terry Matula
tlm1@ra.msstate.edu
matula@ee.msstate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: canders@lacerta.unm.edu (Cliff Anderson CIRT)
Subject: PAYTON'S PLACE 
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 22:49:35 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

There was a recent article in the local news paper that noted  Walter Payton's
auto racing career is on the up stroke.  Does anybody out there know how good
he really is and, how long will it be before we see him behind the wheel at
INDY or DAYTONA?


CLIFF.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: hagood@sabre.den.mmc.com (Dave Hagood)
Subject: Re: Rahal has a big mouth
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics Group
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 18:00:53 GMT

In article <31AUG199220582103@zeus.tamu.edu>, pmh2962@zeus.tamu.edu (Pat Hayes) writes:
|> [stuff deleted]
|> 
|> .. uh, I recall seeing "nice guy" Little Al snuff someone good yesterday
|> (Sunday).  Al drove inside of the other bloke, locked up the skins, and
|> all but hosed the guy right into the tire barrier -- can't remember who the
|> hose-ee was?

	I believe that was Stefan Johannsen (sic), he who is so beloved by
Bobby Rahal, who was the hose-ee of Little Al's "pass".  In both cases, the
passers had the brakes locked up and bumped into the passee, to the passee's
detriment.

	Interesting race:  Unser is squeezed by Fittipaldi, bounced up in the
air and into the tire barrier, gets a push start, and finishes 2nd.  Rahal
is thumped by Johannsen (sic), bounces into the air and into the tire barrier,
and has to park it.  That Galmer chassis is pretty tough! (Sullivan hit the
wall and continued, also).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
									|
David M. Hagood			Martin Marietta Astronautics Group	|
									|
Voice:  (303) 977-9657		When in danger, or in doubt,		|
E-mail: hagood@den.mmc.com	Run in circles, scream and shout.	|
Fax: (303) 977-1530							|
									|
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
     static char *disclaimer = "My opinions, not Martin Marietta's."    |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: rik@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Richard Beckett)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 07:46:38 GMT
Subject: F1 Qualifying tYres.
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Labs, Bristol, UK