From: yingst@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (JIM YINGST)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp
Subject: Re: GURPS OVERKILL
Keywords: maim puncture bleed mutilate die
Date: 13 Apr 92 02:28:00 GMT
Distribution: usa,local
Organization: University of Arizona
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <31556@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, bkoike@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Bryce Koike) writes...
>In article <1992Apr9.203347.27442@u.washington.edu> rrn@milton.u.washington.edu (R. Dired) writes:
>>GURPS Questions:
>>
>>Okay, as far as I can tell, unless you get hit in the vitals or the head,
>>it's not actually possible to die from a single hit. Since you have to take
>>2HT to start to make death checks, the limit (as I understand it) means that
>>this takes two shots.
> 
>	Clarification:  You can die the minute you hit negative
>health.  Every 5pts. of damage you take once negative forces you to
>make a health roll or die.

Wrong.  When the rules say "-HT points: you must make your HT ... or die," they
mean, "when your current hit points are equal or less than the negative of your
original HT score, you must make a (basic) HT roll or die."  The original
wording (B126) is unclear, I know, but look at the preceding and subsequent
paragraphs.  The previous one refers to "0 or less hit points:  You are in
immediate danger of collapse..." - *not* in danger of death (yet).  The
subsequent paragraph starts with "-5 x HT," which obviously means "-5 x the
value of your HT score" - using the same type of notation as before.

So, to give an example - Biff has HT 15.  He takes 17 points of damage, down to
-2.  Next turn he must make a HT roll or go unconscious - he succeeds, then
takes 16 more points damage, to -18.  Next turn, he must make a HT roll *once*
to avoid dying, and another to stay conscious.  He succeeds and takes no dam-
age.  Next turn, he need only make one HT roll to stay conscious - he does, no
more damage.  Next turn, he makes another HT roll, then takes 4 more damage -
down to -22, passing -15-5=-20, which will require another *single* roll to
avoid death.  Next turn, he makes his death roll but fails his consciousness
roll, so he falls unconscious.  He will not be dead unless he later bleeds to
death (very possible) or something eats him.

So, for the original poster - no, a single bullet or impaling attack will not
kill you outright (head/vitals shots and criticals notwithstanding).  But it
can take you to zero hit points, where you will eventually fall unconscious and
quite possibly bleed to death (assuming bleeding rule in effect), unless
someone is there to help you.  Note that other attack forms are not limited by
blow-through (well, not for the torso, anyway).
> 
>>A 7.62 round does, what, 7 dice? This means an average of 24.5 points of
>>damage. A normal humans would, normally, have about a 70% chance of buying the
>>farm. Or does he only take 10 points, and then have the player nervously 
>>look at the GM to see if he is using the bleeding rules (which would actually
>>put the PC in danger). Of course the autofire rules are silly enough so that
>>Joe Targetski will probably take half a dozen hits, so I guess this really
>>isn't much of a problem...
> 
>	Normally, I don't use blowthrough rules when dealing with
>bullets and the main torso (limbs, though are fair play).  I use the
>bleeding rules (although I assign bleeding damage after combat's
>over to save myself some headaches).  IF you're using the BT rules
>for the torso, a character if hit will probably go to 0 HT.  Make a
>health roll or fall unconscious.  Every (roughly) 5 turns after the
>character will have to make a health roll or die.

Aside from the earlier confusion about dying, this seems to assume bleeding is
one point per second (turn).  No, it's one per minute.  Still bad if you're
unconscious.

>	My problem with autofire is that more characters seem
>capable of dodging than not (what with all the wonderful armor
>advancements and high moves in the combat-oriented games I run).
>I've taken to outlawing many types of weapons and armor to control
>this problem and it works well.
> 
>>Is this a correct interpretation? So that a weapon that does 14d+2 damage
>>can only do 2 points to a hampster, but a 15d weapon will do 52.5? You cannot
>>actually kill a cockroach with a .44 Mag (unless you get a head shot)?
>>
>	Somewhere there's a rule known as Common Sense.  I believe
>it's mentioned at the VERY least once in the GURPS Basic Set.
>Basically, if you don't like the way the rule works, change it!

Yeah.  In this case the 15d blowthrough limitation should probably be invoked a
little earlier for a cockroach.  (Though I've seen a few that might well
survive anyway.)  :)
> 
>>Oh, and why is Strong Will 4 points, but Weak Will 8? Can I buy Weak Will
>>-100? 
> 
>	If your GM is willing to allow a WW of -100, I guess that's
>alright.  I'd probably invite you to play a different character if
>you were in my game, though.  (And ye gods the fun of tormenting
>your character...)
>	I have no real explanation for the point costs, but I guess
>that weak will is a much more destructive disadvantage than strong
>will is as an advantage..

Let's note that once your IQ-(will mod) hits around zero or so, you really
aren't getting any further effect from the modifier, and should not be allowed
to benefit from it, IMHO.  Otherwise, I agree with the second poster.

Jim Yingst

yingst@ccit.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp