From: crg@rocky.raleigh.ibm.com (Chuck Grissom)
Subject: Re: Bodybuilding: Is three days enough?
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 05:10:00 GMT
Organization: IBM, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina
Keywords: mass, weights

In article <1992Dec11.195509.6433@inter-tel.com>, wohlenbe@inter-tel.com (Greg Wohlenberg) writes:
|>      I  just  want  to  say  up  front  that I'm a believer in the hardgainer
|> philosophy.  I've personally followed it for the last couple years and it has
|> been the best balance for me in  terms  of  time  versus results.  It doesn't
|> tend to give you the  same  degree  of  refinement  that  a  more traditional
|> program does but the cost for that last 10% of progress can be pretty high.
|> 
|> 
|> >If you really want to try something that works, do the "20-rep Squat Routine"
|> >which was described recently in Ironman: <workout deleted>
|> 
|> >Do this twice a week for 6 weeks and add weight to *every* exercise on *every*
|> >workout.  Add ten pounds each workout to the squat, and five pounds to the
|> >others.  Keep the squat at 20 reps for every workout.
|> 
|>      This just doesn't sound  like  someone  who  has  actually  executed the
|> program for a sustained amount of time.  It is  not  possible  to continually

Why not?  Have you tried it?  I did indeed execute this program for the 6 week
period I suggested (What did you mean by sustained amount of time?  Isn't 6
weeks within the 4 to ten weeks you suggested?) and I did add weight as 
described.  Of course, I might have added that you shouldn't start such a
program with your absolute, gut-wrenching highest weight for the first two or
three workouts, but the principal *does* work if you put the effort in.  I
worked up to 315 lbs for 20 reps in that period, (actually I only got 19 on the
first try at 315) and I felt like it nearly killed me.  Actually, it sounds
like *you* haven't tried it.  If you haven't tried it and failed yourself, don't
pretend to be such an expert on its effectiveness or be so quick to doubt
someone else's experience with it.

|> add 10 pounds every week in a 20-rep squat program.  I  have  found  that the
|> body gets used to a particular movement very quickly--somewhere between 4 and
|> 10 weeks.  If you just keep pressing the weight up you will make progress for
|> a while and then stagnate.  Adding weight at that  point just leads to lesser
|> quality in your reps and possibly injury.

No disagreement here, but the program I suggested is well within these 
guidelines, as you'll see if you'll read it again.

|> 
|>      I  think  it  is far more important to just look at 20-rep squats as one
|> small weapon in your arsenal  of  leg  attacks.   Cycle  them  in  along with
|> low-rep squats, high-rep leg presses,  low-rep  deadlifts,  power  rack work,
|> whatever.  They can all be very productive for brief periods  of  time.  When
|> you switch to a movement, stick with it as long  as  it  is  productive.  You
|> should be able to press  the  weight  some  small  amount  every  week.  Keep
|> good records so that you know how long you have been  doing  a given movement
|> and whether it is still working for you.

Also, I *didn't* suggest that this was the only program to try.  Just a good
ass-kicking program to get moving with.

|> 
|> >If you're not sure that the high intesity/low volume approach
|> >is correct, just ask Dorian Yates, the new Mr. Olympia.
|> 
|>      I can't believe a true hardgainer would  say  anything  like  this.  Who
|> cares what Yates  does?   He  has  such  incredible  genetics  that  he could
|> probably dominate using a variety of different programs.

You're right about incredible genetics, but it's still nice to know that not
*every* big name bodybuilder does 3 hour workouts 6 days a week.

You sound like someone who just wants to argue (and you didn't even really
say anything contrary to what I said.)  Why don't you tell exactly what you do
and how well it works?

Chuck Grissom

|> 
|> Greg Wohlenberg
|> wohlenbe@inter-tel.com
Newsgroups: misc.fitness