From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Subject: Re: The problem of evil (God ain't what you think!)
Organization: SPSS Inc.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:13:13 GMT

Steve.Gross@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Steve Gross) writes:

Well, there you go again! ;-)

>---- Because God created intelligent beings that were capable of letting
>sin form in their hearts thus bringing about evil behavior,  DOES NOT 
>mean that he is responsible for bringing sin into the world.  
Ok.  God created intelligent beings that were capable of letting sin form
in their hearts.  God, being omniscient, knew this would happen.
Therefore, by creating such beings, from nothing, God *IS* responsible.

>The humans that God created were tricked by Satan, who was infinitely more
>intelligent than them, and one heck of a lot more experienced in trickery
>and deceit.  
And just who created Satan?

>Because they were tricked by Satan indicates that they had
>not intended to choose evil, but rather were presented with a new view by
>an extremely talented salesman.  
So what?  They still are guilty.  They didn't have to sin.

>God
>cannot be held responsible for something that was initiated and furthered
>by Satan.

Yes, he can!!!  If God created Satan with the talent and ability to do what
he did, then God *IS* responsible!  He has to be!  

Steve, you are effectively denying God's omnipotence!

Let me ask you this : Could God have created a world with no evil?

>---- Since when does God create every human?  

Well, let's see what this looks like:

    creates           procreate
God---------->Adam/Eve--------->humanity

If God had not created Adam & Eve, then there could have been no humanity.
No to mention Gen 1;27, which says that God created man (generic term for
mankind).

>As far as the bible records it, He only created two.  Adam, then Eve.  
>Since God formed man in his image, he gave man the aility to multiply.  
>Therefore, it is man who creates new life, 
Uhm, while technically true, responsiblity still rests with God for
creating Adam & Eve with this abiltiy!

>God never damns all people,
>quite the opposite, he offered his son as a sacrifice once and for all so
>that all people might come to him, and be saved from the slavery of the
>God of this world, i.e. Satan.
Steve...you and I had a long discussion on election/pre-destination.  Do
you still hold that we have no control over our salvation?  If so, how do
you reconcile the above statement?

Simply put, if only the elect are saved, then God has clearly created
people with the express intent of damning them!

>---- NOT SO!!  evil is defined as something that brings sorrow, distress,
>or calamity.    the fact of suffering, misfortune, and wrongdoing.    A
>cosmic evil force.
Aha!  I have you now!!!!!   Re-read my stuff from Isaiah 45:7!!!!  Here's the
refressher:

NIV : bring prosperity, create disaster
NAS : cause well-being, create calamity
NRSV: make weal, create woe

Game, set and match.  God created evil.

>---- This is a sob story, nothing else.  Because you refuse to accept the
>simplicity of Salvation as it stands, a gift from God, you try and blame
>him for everything that you can think of.  
If nothing existsed except God, and God chose to create, isn't he
responsible for everything He has created, and everything that spawns from
that creation?  Especially since He is omniscient and had to know what was
going to happen!  Not only did He create evil, but it was PREMEDITATED.

>You should take a hard look at
>what you are saying Mr. Hartigan, it is without thought.
Steve, read this sentence 10 times, with your name instead of Mr.
Hartigan's.  Think about it.

>Would a God who
>claims to be just, and fair, and pure, and righteous, create a race of
>people who he knew would go to hell without him, and then maliciously only
>save half, or a third, or however many of them he chose????   NO WAY!  
But isn't this exactly what you postulate when you, in the past, claimed
election and predestination?

>Because of SATAN, this world sucks,
>and because of SATAN, there is sin in the world.  
Because of GOD, Satan is in this world.

>God offered his SON man!!!  
Yes, he did.  So that *ALL* who beleived might be called children of God
and have eternal life.

>How much more do you want the man to give???  
God is not a 'man'.  God is an eternal being, one person of which is the
Father.  But the Father is not a man either.

>The fault for your
>and other people's non-salvation is your own fault.  
Then I guess you have given up on predestination.  Hmm.  Maybe I had some
effect.

>God offered the plan
>two thousand years ago, and if you can't get with that program, you have
>NO RIGHT to blame the God who gave you and everyone else the opportunity.
I'm with the program.  I hold God responsible for everything that happens
in the Universe.  It is His, afterall.  I'm only borrowing a part of it for
a brief time.

 -Steve
--
 The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
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     adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
     Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558