HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart)
Subject: Re: Racist/Sexist Role Models
Organization: my opinions only
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 23:02:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.223733.14464@samba.oit.unc.edu>
Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks) writes:

>>I fail to see how expressing a desire to increase the number of black engineers
>>is overt racism.  Please explain yourself.
>
>Increasing the number of black engineers by definition requires racial
>discrimination. Engaging in racial discrimination is by definition racism.

No it doesn't.  If the number of black engineers is lower than its
potential value because of racism, or lack of available decent
education, then eliminating those factors will increase the number of
black engineers.

Seth		sethb@fid.morgan.com
From: LCM111@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: getting better?
Date: 23 Nov 92 19:49:47 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

It seems to me that though there are still many
poopheads who are so emotionally repressed that
they must defend their psyches by discriminating,
things just may be getting better.  It seems as
though the new generation of poopheads is being
better educated and is becoming more aware of
the unity of the human soul, regardless of color, sex,
or any other inconsequential genetic statement.
  Do you agree or disagree and why?
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 08:11:53 EST
From: <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Go see X


   In the hope that people will finally be educated about one of the more
interesting and intriquing people of the 20th century, I would hope that many
of you will go see "X" that opens today.   It has received nothing but stellar
reviews, and it would go a lot to understanding the attitude of many Black
people today.  Of course many people will say that they will not go see a movie
 about a racist, which Malcolm was in a part of his life, but those who know
his life, will realize that he was a changed man by the time of his death.
Please go see it, I will be there, first show today!
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: buckmr@vccsouth14.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: military and gays
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 23:15:15 GMT

puh@cwis.unomaha.edu (Jennifer M. Hall) writes:



>Does anyone think Clinton will be successful in lifting the ban on
>gays from military service?  I'd like to know other people's opinions on
>this such as, how will he achieve it, and where will he get his support
>other than the homosexual community.  I am very much in agreement with
>Clinton, but I am concerned about how he will achieve this based on 
>the opposition from military officials.

I really don't understand this concern with the opposition of military
officials. Clinton is Commander-in-Chief! He gives an [Executive] order, they
should bleeding well follow it!

E N D  O F  S T O R Y !

[Plus, it's the right thing to do. Any of you know that Canada did just that
on October27 and Australia is doing it in the next week or so?]

-- 
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
Barbara Bush: a chronologically gifted, differently interesting, domestic
incarceration surviving member of the mutant albino genetic-recessive global
minority.-- _QW_'s ``politically correct'' description of the First Lady.
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart)
Subject: Re: Sad Day for Liberty
Organization: my opinions only
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 02:32:36 GMT

In article <CARL.92Nov11132701@atlantis.Cayman.COM> carl@Cayman.COM
(Carl Heinzl) writes:

>>To those who are going to say "This company hasn't hired and X's,
>>therefore they must be discriminating.  Why won't you allow that as
>>proof?"  I'll say "Show me one X who applied and was more qualified
>>than candidates they did hire.  The existence of such a person implies
>>discrimination; if you can't find one, then tell me _precisely who_
>>they discriminated against."
>
>I must beg to differ.  I do not believe that this implies
>discrimination, however I think that if this systematically happened
>over a period of time to several people then something could be up.
>
>For example, I have interviewed people that have been extremely well
>qualified (technically), more so than others, but that most people in
>the company would have had an extremely hard time working with.

Then they weren't qualified to do *the job*, they were qualified to do
the technical part of it only.

>Qualifications alone do not make someone appropriate for a position.
>Attitude and personality go along with it.  You cannot simply judge a
>person by their resume (even if all the resumes are totally accurate
>portrayals of their technical ability)!!!

You're using a different definition of "qualified" than I am.

Seth		sethb@fid.morgan.com
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 13:41:26 EST
From: <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Discrimination today
 <92321.140514KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
 <1992Nov17.130745.26268@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>

In article <1992Nov17.130745.26268@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>,
barrabas@kip-sn-73.dartmouth.edu (Nile Barrabas) says:
>
>In article <92321.140514KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> , KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu
>writes:
>>    So, whoever the writer of the above passage is, he is wrong. these
>organiz-
>>ations are not racist, be it good or bad, anyone can join them and many
>non-
>>black people chose to do so.  Please get your facts straight before you
>go and
>>call something racist which isnt't.
>
>
>  Did I say they were racist? I was only asking if they were NPO's. I was
>not aware that any underprivliged person could benifit from the negro
>college fund.

   Your quote of "that's not racism, just good racism" led me to believe that
you were making a point about the UNCF and the NAACP.  If that is not what you
meant then I am curious as to your intent.  If an underpriveliged person
attended a predominetely Black institution  that the UNCF supports, then he/she
would be eligible for those funds, which are given to the general scholarship
funds at the schools.  See, you learn something new everyday.
From: barrabas@kip-sn-73.dartmouth.edu (Nile Barrabas)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Discrimination today
Date: 16 Nov 92 01:53:04 GMT
Organization: SOB
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A72C6918BB015004@kip-sn-4.dartmouth.edu>
X-Xxdate: Sun, 15 Nov 92 19:52:40 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11

In article <1e0n6rINNdhn@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Vicki Schmotzer,
aa568@cleveland.Freenet.Edu writes:
>I won't even bother repeating the garbage spewed in this post.
>I just wanted to say that I wasn't surprised that the person who
>posted it chose to remain anonymous.
>
>Vicki Schmotzer               The world is but one country, 
>                              and mankind its citizens.
>                                                         Baha'u'llah
*****************************************************

  What's so bad about displaying the truth?  

A question, are the NAACP and the Negro Clooege Fund considered non
profit orgs? If so, how does that sit with the law that an NPO cannot be
of a single race/sex?
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: zedaker@next01wor.wam.umd.edu (Pamela Marie Weller)
Subject: African American U.S. History
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:19:52 GMT

Does anyone know of some really good and acurate books on  Black history  
in America?

Is there a library in the Maryland/D.C. area that has a good collection?

I'm really interested in this subject.

Please post or email me --> zedaker@wam.umd.edu

Thank, Pam
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: puh@cwis.unomaha.edu (Jennifer M. Hall)
Subject: military and gays
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:03:19 GMT



Does anyone think Clinton will be successful in lifting the ban on
gays from military service?  I'd like to know other people's opinions on
this such as, how will he achieve it, and where will he get his support
other than the homosexual community.  I am very much in agreement with
Clinton, but I am concerned about how he will achieve this based on 
the opposition from military officials.

Jennifer Hall
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american
From: agoyo1@athena.mit.edu (Guess Who's Back)
Subject: Re: Racist/Sexist Role Models
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:04:19 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.044201.18879@samba.oit.unc.edu>\
 Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks) writes:
>White people did not create the slave trade, wipe out the Native Americans,
>and so. Such beliefs are racist.
Oh, so what happened to all the Native Americans who died?  Did they just drop
dead by themselves?  Did they move somewhere else and are about to appear
any day now?  And what about the African slaves who died under slavery?  Who
were their owners?  Did they die by themselves?  Oh, Great Keeper of Knowledge,
please tell us what other intelligence you possess.

Acee Agoyo
agoyo1@athena.mit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: dweisman@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: military and gays
Organization: Clark University
Date: 18 NOV 92 23:34:24 GMT

I hope that Clinton is able to achieve that goal as well as many others, but I 
don't feel that I am able to say whether he will be able to or not.  You must 
keep in mind that although it may not be the majority, there are 
heterosexuals, like myself, who are pro-gay rights.  If this minority group 
and the gay minority group can get organized and can educate others, than we 
CAN BECOME THE MAJORITY!!!  Besides that, I strongly believe that Clinton's 
interests don't necessarily lie with the majority alone.  After all, if my 
family could win a separation of church and state case in a court with mainly 
Reagan/Bush appointees-only good things can happen with Clinton.:)


Debbie Weisman
Lee vs Weisman
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 07:40:15 EST
From: <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Go see X
 <1992Nov18.215126.3593@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>

  The extended quotation in the last post with regard to the movie "X" is
puzzling.  Is the poster making a point that some Black people do not find
El-Haijj Malik Shabazz a character to be studied or revered?  If so, then that
is ludicrous.  Of course there are Black people who find Malcolm X appalling
(as well as those who find MLK unappealing).  People must realize that Black
people are not of one mind, we all have brains and chose to use them as we
see fit.  It would be like making a point of saying that not all white people
like Bill Clinton, George bush or David Duke.  Of course we know this is true,
and the same is true of Black people.  This is like the media's infatuation
with the fact that all political questions that  deal with Blacks must go
through or about Jesse Jackson.  There are those of us who dislike JJ, but
the media has crowned him the head of the Black political establishment.
  But to my original post.  Though I highly respect both Thurgood Marshall and
Doug Wilder, their comdemnation of Malcolm X is not a reason for people to go
see the movie.  As I said, this movie is for all people to get an understanding
of a man that a lot of Americans do revere.
Kevin
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american
From: Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks)
Subject: Re: Racist/Sexist Role Models
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 01:13:19 GMT

>>Increasing the number of black engineers by definition requires racial
>>discrimination. Engaging in racial discrimination is by definition racism.
>
>No it doesn't.  If the number of black engineers is lower than its
>potential value because of racism, or lack of available decent
>education, then eliminating those factors will increase the number of
>black engineers.

Sorry, no cigar. Even seeking to increase the number of black engineers
by removing racism from the path of prospective black engineers or improving
the education of prospective black engineers is racist being that
it involves racial discrimination in determining from whom racism is
to be removed and to whom education is to be improved.

No matter how you slice it, when you categorize people by race (as in
the case of black engineers) and seek to act upon that category (as in
increasing their number) you are engaging in racism.

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
From: Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks)
Subject: Re: Discrimination today
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 05:02:44 GMT

>     The NAACP is not a single race entity that is how!!!   There is no race
>test that has to be passed for memeberships. George Bush and Bill Clinton are
>two white people that I can name that are members.
 
The NAACP has a charter in using racial prejudice in who they will support,
by definition making it a racist organization.
 
>If any white people want to
>join the NAACP they are more then welcome.
 
What about anti-racists?
 
>  The United Negro College Fund gives money directly to the institutions.  The
>again, do not have a race test.  Anyone can attend Howard, Morgan and other
>predominately black institutions if they so please.
 
The schools engage in racial prejudice, by definition making them racist.
For example, by gratuitously advertising themselves as historically black.
 
>The money people give to
>the UNCF goes straight into the school scholarship funds, which  are not
>doled out in a race specific way.
 
And the UNCF also gives out race-restricted scholarships to individuals.
 
 
>>The same way that slavery sat with the U.S. Constitution for 100 years
>>(all men are created equal). Today's belief, "that's not racism...well,
>>it's the good kind of racism", has been present throughout history.
>>
>>--
>    So, whoever the writer of the above passage is, he is wrong. these organiz>ations are not racist, be it good or bad, anyone can join them and many non-niz>
>black people chose to do so.  Please get your facts straight before you go and
>call something racist which isnt't.
 
They are by definition racist. Having members of all races does not
make an organization non-racist just as having Jewish blood does not
make Hitler not anti-semetic. 
 

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks)
Subject: Re: Discrimination today
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 03:01:52 GMT

>A question, are the NAACP and the Negro Clooege Fund considered non
>profit orgs? If so, how does that sit with the law that an NPO cannot be
>of a single race/sex?

The same way that slavery sat with the U.S. Constitution for 100 years
(all men are created equal). Today's belief, "that's not racism...well,
it's the good kind of racism", has been present throughout history.

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Discrimination today
Date: 18 Nov 92 02:21:01 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology

>     The NAACP is not a single race entity that is how!!!   There is no race
>test that has to be passed for memeberships. George Bush and Bill Clinton are
>two white people that I can name that are members.
 
The NAACP has a charter in using racial prejudice in who they will support,
by definition making it a racist organization.
 
>If any white people want to
>join the NAACP they are more then welcome.
 
What about anti-racists?
 
>  The United Negro College Fund gives money directly to the institutions.  The
>again, do not have a race test.  Anyone can attend Howard, Morgan and other
>predominately black institutions if they so please.
 
The schools engage in racial prejudice, by definition making them racist.
For example, by gratuitously advertising themselves as historically black.
 
>The money people give to
>the UNCF goes straight into the school scholarship funds, which  are not
>doled out in a race specific way.
 
And the UNCF also gives out race-restricted scholarships to individuals.
 
 
>>The same way that slavery sat with the U.S. Constitution for 100 years
>>(all men are created equal). Today's belief, "that's not racism...well,
>>it's the good kind of racism", has been present throughout history.
>>
>>--
>    So, whoever the writer of the above passage is, he is wrong. these organiz>ations are not racist, be it good or bad, anyone can join them and many non
>black people chose to do so.  Please get your facts straight before you go and
>call something racist which isnt't.
 
They are by definition racist. Having members of all races does not
make an organization non-racist just as having Jewish blood does not
make Hitler not anti-semetic. 
 
 

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: barrabas@kip-sn-73.dartmouth.edu (Nile Barrabas)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Discrimination today
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:07:45 GMT
Organization: SOB
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A72E58B85D015004@kip-sn-4.dartmouth.edu>
X-Xxdate: Tue, 17 Nov 92 07:07:20 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11

In article <92321.140514KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> , KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu
writes:
>    So, whoever the writer of the above passage is, he is wrong. these
organiz-
>ations are not racist, be it good or bad, anyone can join them and many
non-
>black people chose to do so.  Please get your facts straight before you
go and
>call something racist which isnt't.
    

  Did I say they were racist? I was only asking if they were NPO's. I was
not aware that any underprivliged person could benifit from the negro
college fund.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:05:14 EST
From: <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Discrimination today
Distribution: usa
 <1992Nov16.015304.14651@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
 <1992Nov16.030152.27041@samba.oit.unc.edu>

In article <1992Nov16.030152.27041@samba.oit.unc.edu>,
Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks) says:
>
>>A question, are the NAACP and the Negro Clooege Fund considered non
>>profit orgs? If so, how does that sit with the law that an NPO cannot be
>>of a single race/sex?


     The NAACP is not a single race entity that is how!!!   There is no race
test that has to be passed for memeberships. George Bush and Bill Clinton are
two white people that I can name that are members.  If any white people want to
join the NAACP they are more then welcome.  In fact on a lot of campuses, a
lot of white people decide to join these organizations.
  The United Negro College Fund gives money directly to the institutions.  The
institutions are historically black colleges and universities.  The schools,
again, do not have a race test.  Anyone can attend Howard, Morgan and other
predominately black institutions if they so please. The money people give to
the UNCF goes straight into the school scholarship funds, which  are not
doled out in a race specific way.

>
>The same way that slavery sat with the U.S. Constitution for 100 years
>(all men are created equal). Today's belief, "that's not racism...well,
>it's the good kind of racism", has been present throughout history.
>
>--
    So, whoever the writer of the above passage is, he is wrong. these organiz-
ations are not racist, be it good or bad, anyone can join them and many non-
black people chose to do so.  Please get your facts straight before you go and
call something racist which isnt't.
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american
From: Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks)
Subject: Re: Racist/Sexist Role Models
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:32:21 GMT

>>Many colleges provide special preferred academic treatment for Blaks.
>>These include lower admission standards (in effect, adding points to SAT
>>scores, etc.), tutoring, mentoring, organization memberships, which are
>>denied Caucasian students. Perhaps you didn't realize such advantages
>>made available to you were race restricted.

>Please make available the names of the colleges and the programs which provide
>tutoring, mentoring, etc. to students of color but deny them to Caucausian 
>students.  I for one, would like to know the exact facts.
>
>Acee Agoyo
>agoyo1@athena.mit.edu

MIT has a number of such programs, why don't you stop by the administration
offices and inquire about them.


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: ab269@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John  Laws)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination
Subject: Book
Date: 22 Nov 1992 23:47:46 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


Anybody who wants to be informed on the subject of race relations
 and racism should pick up a copy of the new book, Paved With 
 Good Intentions: The Failure of Race Relations in Contemporary
 America by Jared Taylor. It is published by Carroll and Graf, 260
Fifth Avenue, New York, N.Y. 10001.
This book is long overdue. It clearly shows that white racism is
 simply an excuse for black failures and lack of taking responsibility
 for your own actions. The book has over 1300 citations to back up
 its assertions. Do not allow this fraud to continue. Pick up a copy
of this book and demand that the myth of white racism being the cause
of all the problems of black-Americans be stopped. Demand that
 the government end the racist policies such as affirmative action
 and quotas. 
Does racism exist? Yes, it exists in both the black and white
 communities. However, it is NOT the overriding cause of black
 failure. It is NOT as prevalent as the media and others would
have you believe. Where it exists, it must be condemned and stopped.
But it does not lurk behind every tree and this misconception
must be stopped also.
READ THIS BOOK! LEARN THE FACTS. DEMAND ACTION.
-- 
"Life what a beautiful choice" (Thanks to the Arthur Demoss Foundation)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination