From: ac10+@andrew.cmu.edu (Alison Rebecca Colman)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Death and life
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:40:46 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

>>>>> = Joy Haftel
>>>>  = Alison Rebecca Colman
> 
>>>>>I think it is better to be alive.
> 
>>>> How do you know?
> 
>>I asked Joy a question, and I am surprised no one (including Joy) has
>>really answered it. I asked her, "how do you know that life is better
>>than death?" I personally don't think that anybody *knows* the answer to
>>this question, but it makes for interesting discussion.
> 
>My apologies; I was using the time to think about the question more
thoroughly.

Quite alright. I'm glad that you did. Thanks!

>I don't know that life is better than death.  I think it is better,
>because life is at least a known quantity, while death remains hidden.

Exactly -- death is hidden. And that is why I think that no one can
really know. But this is only my opinion.

>My perspectives come from a Christian point of view, and so do my SO's.
>I discussed this question with him.  He said that for a Christian it is
>better to be dead than alive on this earth--kind of along Paul's idea
>that "Christ in me is to live; to die is gain," and looking forward to
>the time after life when we can meet God face to face.  However, God's
>work still needs to be done here on earth, so we are supposed to wait
>for his time before we die.  So wherever we are, alive or dead, if we
>are in God's will, that is best.  So it is better to be alive.

Both very interesting points of view. One thing I like about this bboard
is that I learn a lot about Christianity and Catholicism. And I rely on
Nora for information about my own religion! :-) Since I am not a very
religious person, and I don't know a *whole* lot about religion (I
thought I was pretty knowlegeable about Western religions and religious
issues until I started reading this bboard, actually) I don't confront
the issue of abortion from a religious angle; not because I can't,
(well, I can't really well) but because I don't feel the need.

>There is something in the human spirit which resists death.  We have laws
>trying to protect our lives, we take safety measures, and if chased by
>something or someone threatening we run.  Suicides occur, but the over-
>whelming majority of people want to keep on living until they are very
>ill in old age (at which point many want to die, feeling that they have
>lived to their fullest and the pain should end).
 
Makes sense to me, I think. No one *wants* to die, of course. I read
somewhere that self-preservation was the number one strongest human
urge. (sex was the second, I believe, interestly enough) But I am
intereseted in why people resist death so strongly, and why so many
people see death as a bad thing. I'm not sure if you have answered this.
And based on what I have read in general, it seems like a strong
aversion to death is a more western thing than an eastern thing. I
wonder why?

>Life is good for healthy, reasonably well-off young people with a good
>family background, and I am sure that is one reason that I am glad to
>be alive; to see opportunities all around, to enjoy both my work and
>my other activities.  

Me too.

>But, back to the religious angle, in C.S. Lewis' _The Great Divorce_,
>the dead ride on a bus to heaven, where everything is so real that people
>are wraiths in comparison.  The grass is so thick and sharp it cuts your
>feet, and you feel like you were alive for the first time.  I could deal
>with being dead if heaven is like that :-).  

Cool! Is it a good book? Should I read it? Here's my theory: When you
die, you go into a big movie theatre that is big and fancy, and made
personally for you, and only for you. You then have to sit and watch
your entire life from a spectator's point of view on the big screen.
(This is sort of like your purgatory) But, you are allowed to make rude
comments and say goofy things to yourself and pretend to pick your nose
on screen if you want. (A la Mystery Science Theatre 3000 or Rocky
Horror, if you wish.) After all, there is no one in the theatre with
you! Then, if you go to heaven, you get to re-live the most wonderful
parts of your life for the rest of eternity, but it never ever gets
played. It continues to be wonderful forever. And if you go to hell
(which I don't really believe in, by the way, but I want to be
consistent) you re-live the worst parts of your life forever and ever,
and you never get used to it. Each time is just as bad as the previous
time. Well, okay, it's a little strange. Hey, I'm an art student! I'm
allowed to be wierd! :-)

>But in order to get to that kind of life, you first have to go through this 
>one. Aborted children seem to lack a chance at either.

I guess this is where you and I differ. I don't think that the aborted
fetuses lack anything. How can they miss anything they haven't
experienced, aka life as we *know* it? You would probably say, well,
life is wonderful and the fetus should be given the chance to live life.
Maybe, but why should we feel sorry for the fetus if it isn't feeling
sorry for itself? WE know what it is missing, but does it matter if the
fetus doesn't know what it is missing?  The fetus doesn't know that life
is wonderful, and if it is aborted it will obviously never know, but is
that really bad if it never knows?

Alison Colman
Newsgroups: talk.abortion