HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eru@watson.ibm.com (Erich Ruetsche)
Subject: Re: Macho quiz (for Laura)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 12:41:30 GMT
Reply-To: eru@titlis.zurich.ibm.com (Erich Ruetsche)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Zurich Research

Mort wrote:
> You are joking, right?  TECHNIQUE almost completely controls how hard a route
> you can do ANYWHERE!

That another joke - ever tried a UIAA 9 (5.12 -5.13) without POWER  ?

Technique is very important but if you're goining to higher grades technique is
a necessary condition - the limiting factor becomes power and endurance.

But a good news for Laura:
My girlfriend climbs about the same grades as me: mostly UIAA 8 on sight and
UIAA 9 redpoint BUT she has quite a bit less power and is 20 cm shorter.
So there must be something else than power.

She makes 8 pull-up at most. So pull ups can not be a limiting factor.

'Kraft ist nicht alles, aber ohne Kraft ist alles nichts'

Erich Ruetsche

PS. Susi Good won the Worldcup last sunday, 2nd Robin Ebersfield
    3rd Isabelle Patissier 
    F.Legrand gave a revanche: 9m ahead of the second !
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:34:36 EST
From: jim bowers <FQV@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: (?) Advice on building a wall?
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Nov17.063357.18826@news.Hawaii.Edu>, matt@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu
(Matthew McGranaghan) says:
>
>Could anyone advise me on the use of epoxy to place
>holds on a bare concrete block wall?  I am thinking
>about putting a few holds on the wall of my office
>for quick stress-relieving workout.  This project
>shouldn't have to involve our facilities management
>folks ;-).
>
>The wall is non-structural, un-painted, and made of
>standard hollow concrete blocks.  It seems that drilling
>into the blocks to bolt holds in place would have high
>potential for weakening the blocks.  I suspect that
>epoxying holds to the blocks (only over the reinforced
>---non-hollow--- parts of the blocks) would be stronger.
>Perhaps epoxy and a pin or bolt would be ok, but still
>might weaken the integrity of the blocks.
>
>Any recommendations on adhesives, concerns and/or building
>techniques would be appreciated.  Thanks.
>

 Epoxy will work just fine to glue holds anywhere on your concrete
block wall.  But don't waste you money gluing store bought holds
as actual rock is free (if you can come up with some good glue on
rock in Hawaii that is).  PC-7 which is available in most hardware
stores will work fine.  Perhaps the ideal stuff (because it is cheap
and high viscosity) is stuff called EAS-51 from the QCM company
out of Kent WA (phone 1-800-321-0170).

For further advice on what you can do with concrete block walls
you might want to check out the Petrogrip book and video on how
to build affordable climbing walls ($7.50 and $19.95).
I give a netland discount.

                          Jim Bowers
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: cpguenth@next12 (CHRIS P. GUENTHER)
Subject: REC
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:13:01 GMT

I NEED A CLIMBING PARTNER FOR A SUMMERR TRIP TO SOUTH DAKOTA (NEEDLES).
From: rob@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: yes, we do exist
Date: 16 Nov 92 11:07:36 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

Brendan Murphy (brendan@buck.ac.uk) wrote:
: 
: >So, how was harrisons? Has the concrete shielding at the top
: >got any easier recently? Is there still a hex stuck at the back
: >of long lieback, and most importantly, did it rain?
:     ^^^^^^^^^^^^
: 
: A "long lieback" is the sort of thing a British climber might do after 
: partaking of too many ales.  "Long Layback", on the other hand, is a classic
: route (pronounced "root" over here) at Harrisons ... :-)

couldn't agree more, Layback has a much nicer sound and flow than lieback
and as for rout, how can you possible pull on them at the top of Long Layback,

ps whats the grade these days it seems to yoyo between 4c and 5a though
the start is more than a tad slippy.

Rob.
................................................................................
 Rob Stone, Dept of Psychology, University of York, YORK. YO1 5DD.  UK.
         rob@minster.york.ac.uk      Phone/Fax   +44 904 433160
         "I love lard;  Hands up if you like lard"  Emerson Lake 
................................................................................
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Yes, we do exist
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 02:13:07 GMT

>>Rec.bicycle.*, for example are filled with no end of wankers, ninnies,
>>geeks, nerds, and bozos.
>
>... sounds like George Bush describing the democratic congress.

Sounds like rec.climbing to me.
Hey I know those wankers (jeff turbo), ninnies, geeks (chris), nerds (me),
and bozos.

Is this like those "We are everywhere" stickers?

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: psp@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (P.S. Powledge)
Subject: Info. Request: Climbing Competitions
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Holmdel, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 02:23:58 GMT
Keywords: officiating bodies?



Hello All,

Some climbing friends of mine have decided to organize a competition. 
There's only one small problem: they don't have the slightest notion 
of how to get started.

Is there some sort of climbing competition body in the U.S. that they 
could contact to find out about the mechanics of setting up a race?
Any other sources of information?

Thanks in advance ...
-- 
||| Polly Powledge				
||| Internet: p.s.powledge@att.com
||| Uucp:     att!hrmso!psp
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: bohack@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (edward.e.harstead)
Subject: Supergaitors
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:07:39 GMT

I am looking at insulated supergaitors, and I have been able to
find only two, both with Thinsulate on the bottom half of the gaitor.

1. Wild Country Extremities Supergaitors ($95), with Goretex.

2. Black Diamond Expedition Supergaitors ($90), with Ultrex.

Does anyone have any experience with these?  How do they stand up
to crampon points?  How durable is the rubber rand?  How helpful is
the insulation?  Any other models that I should consider?

Thanks for the help,

Ed Harstead
From: nathan@hal.COM (Nathan Hoover)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: JT guide
Date: 17 Nov 92 22:27:06 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: rousseau.hal.com


Does anyone know a store in the South Bay that has the new and very thick JT
guide?  I'm heading down there over Thanksgiving.



-- 
  Nathan Hoover    nathan@hal.com  408-379-7000x1331
From: ted@nmsu.edu (Classic Ted)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Hueco Tanks State Park temporarily closed
Date: 19 Nov 92 18:56:55 GMT
Reply-To: ted@nmsu.edu
Distribution: rec.climbing
Organization: Computing Research Lab


In article <1992Nov16.221635.20957@oracle.us.oracle.com>
drisinge@oracle.uucp (David Risinger) writes:

   If anyone has a trip currently scheduled to Hueco, I strongly
   suggest that you contact the park office as well as the local
   climbing organizations to ascertain the current status of the park.




consider the organs.... just up the street with lots of climbing.
expect to walk in.


if you turn up in town, give me a call... i am in the book.
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Re: No More Write-Ups?
Date: 16 Nov 1992 13:15:39 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1992Nov16.184938.29520@nas.nasa.gov>,
eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>In article <1ds0kbINN310@morrow.stanford.edu>
>AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>>Say, does anyone still understand about: a) nuts in opposition, b)
>>two nuts on one perlon sling to create a primitive camming device,
>>c) tying off the shaft of a rigid Friend (hmm sounds racy!), d)
>>other devious techniques?
>
>Robbins: Advanced Rockcraft.
>
>You only left out stacking pins.  Fun.
>
What I'ld Like You to Believe:  I'm so pure I've never driven a pin.

The Truth:  I'm such a klutz I can't even hammer a 4 penny nail into
soft pine with out either bending it, smashing my hand, or both!

-Marc Whitney as.msw@FORSYTHE.Standford.edu
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: USFS Backcountry Fees
Date: 19 Nov 1992 12:20:09 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1992Nov19.175348.26245@samba.oit.unc.edu>,
Doug.Hemken@launchpad.unc.edu (Doug Hemken) writes:
>
>Fees for use should be proportional to the maintenance and facilities in
>an area.  You shouldn't have to pay (an individual user fee) for a simple walk
>in a public woods.
>
A reasonable attitude, however, the shareholders of lumber companies
are also part of the public.  (You may be one if you have an
interest in a mutual fund, a retirement plan or a pension fund,
etc.)  The sharholders may take the position as members of the
public they should have the right to cut timber on public lands or
at least buy the right at auction.

While I'm sympathetic to your feelings on this, sometimes right and
fairness get in the way of effectiveness.  I would rather pay a $25
(or even $100) per year fee "unfairly" with the result that logging
on public lands is significantly reduced, than to stand on principle
while listening to the sound of the chainsaw.

The concern I have is would the fees be implemented in a way that
would require the FS to reduce timber sales?  AND* if so, in what
proportion the backcountry fees collected?

--  Marc Whitney
     as.msw@forsythe.stanford.edu

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: susswein@anrchy.cxo.dec.com (Steve Susswein)
Subject: plastic boots, tele skis, sleeping bag for sale
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Colorado Springs, Co
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 19:36:02 GMT

I have the following items for sale:

1) Plastic mountaineering boots: Koflach Viva (the grey ones). Men's
size 9 1/2.  $60

2)Telemark Skis.  Asnes Telemark comp, 200 cm, with asolo telemark
bindings.  Freshly tuned/waxed at the end of last season.  $75

3) Down sleeping bag.  Camp 7 Arete down mummy bag.  Rated to 5 degrees,
realistically warm down to around 15 degrees.  Weighs only 3 lbs.
Complete with large cotton xtorage sack.  $90

I'm located in Colorado Springs, but frequently make it up to Denver and
Boulder.  Shipping to other locations is negotiable.

Steve
susswein@ssag.enet.dec.com
w: (719) 548-2722
h: (719) 684-9093
From: ian@foxtrot.seas.upenn.edu (Ian M Glazer)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: RE Routes on Mt. Desert
Date: 23 Nov 92 15:22:06 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

I'm looking for information on climbing routes on Mount Desert Island (Acadia National Park). I did a little climbing at Otter Cliffs (I think) a few years ago.  I have heard that ther is good hard climbing on the Bee-Hive or the other sheer face with ladders (the name escapes me.) If anyone has route names, experiences, or other misc. stuff about the area they want to share please e-mail me.


*********************************************************
Ian Glazer	ian@eniac.seas.upenn.edu		*
"Sometimes there is strength and sometimes weakness;	*
Sometimes one is up and sometimes one is down." Lao Tzu	*
*********************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Subject: Re: beginning ice climbing
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:44:47 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Nov23.045633.12018@mercury.cair.du.edu> tjreynol@zephyr.cair.du.edu (five left and cut!) writes:
>mountaineering boots). A salesmen at North Face told me that I should
>expect the heel to lift a little which contradicts what I've been
>told about double boots ("boots should fit like good ski boots, snug
>but not tight with no heel lift and toes you can just wiggle).
>I'd appreciate advice on fit as well as any good or bad experiences
>with a particular brand. Ditto for ice tools.

Try on a bunch of different boots, and choose the ones that feel the best.

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: davin@hardy.u.washington.edu (David Veale)
Subject: climbing films
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:18:35 GMT

I'm part of a university climbing club, and we're looking for good movies
to show at our meetings, but the selection of non-instructional films
seems to be really limited.  Does anyone have any reccomendations for good,
entertaining climbing (or skiing) films?
	What about instructional films?  Which ones have you seen that
were either good or bad?

					-Dave

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Law Suits!!
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 01:18:45 GMT

>ufessex@mcl.ucsb.edu (Fabian E. Schonholz) writes:
>>it should be understood that you climb at your own risk, and if you do not
>>seek propper instruction before undertaking, or overtaking, climbing, then
>>you are an idiot, or you have steal balls, but I would go for the first one.
>>America has gotten greedy, and it is collapsing under its own waigth, maybe

In article <BxK7Jo.3ws@world.std.com> gnray@world.std.com (Garry N Ray) writes:
>Its a symptom of the underlying rapaciousness of lawyers in general and
>our toleration of them in particular that has every risky endeavour in
>America paying phenomenal insurance premiums to protect against lawsuits.

The right to sue is intimately tied to issues of free speech.
You can sue if you got what you regard as improper instruction,
or faulty equipment, or your climbing partner looking at you funny.
Do you want to forego these rights?  Do you understand these rights
as I have read them to you [it doesn't matter any decent lawyer could
twist language to suit his/her taste].
All you are doing is asking for a "hearing."  You want your peers to hear
your tale of woe, because the plaintiff did you wrong.  It does not mean
you will get a settlement, it does not mean you will win, but you can sure
put the fear of God in some people.  Cause them to spend sleepless nights
and spend money on a defense lawyer.

>The only suit I'm aware of is the turd who sued Chouinard because he fell
>from his harness or something.

I am aware of three lawsuits.
1) Painters using Chouinard harnesses.
2) The fatality of a local at Pinnacles (a C-harness).
3) The Teton fatality which broke the camel's back (a C-harness).
It was no single suit.
4) Plus I have a friend (a climber) who once owned land,
	was sued for a climbing accident (settled out of court for $30K,
	down from $1M), and is on the verge of having his ex-neighbors sue
	him.  This is on going, and I watch with "interest."

>Of course it doesn't make sense to anyone, and I guess it didn't occur to
>the jury of the Chouinard case to ask "What was the jerk doing so far
>above the ground before his harness came undone?" The conclusion is worse
>than the accident: American jurors look as these cases as one more lottery
>game where they might be the next winner. "Jeepers. A million dollars....!"

American juries do not view climbing as an activity with any sense.
This makes it very easy to get a case thrown out.  All the more reason
for a lawyer to really try a lot harder to justify such cases.
When you build one, it all sounds perfectly reasonable.
"Your Honor, my client was wrongfully ...."

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Member, Handley Rock Association
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Black Diamonds new self locking biners should be RECALLED!
From: cline+@cs.cmu.edu (Kenneth Cline)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 13:01:35 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Yes, I agree!

I ignored the rather obviously difficult to open gate and lived to
regret it.  For those of you who haven't used them, if you don't
completely rotate the sleeve, the gate will open slightly and refuse
to open any further - unless you relax the tension on gate and twist
thegate to the fully open position.  This minor annoyance turns out to
be real trouble when operating the biner with frozen hands and
shivering body.

Furthermore, after less than a summer of occasional use mine has
stiffened up to the point that it will sometimes stick open.

All in all a not too impressive carabiner.


Ken

P.S.  It does not suffer from the major failing of Black Diamond's old
reverse twist biners which have: accidentally twisted open (not
surprising due to extra light screw); then accidentally had their gate
opened (again no surprise); and finally, with gate open, accidentally
became relocked with the gate in the open position, ready for the rope
to fall out or to break under heavy load!

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: sgs8r@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Steve Strickland, sgs8r@virginia.edu)
Subject: training, pullups
Organization: Dept. of Systems Eng., U.Va.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:06:29 GMT

Meant to post this a while back but....

One of my friends is a professor in the area of exercise physiology. Some time
ago we were discussing training and he had some interesting comments.
Apparently, studies have shown that the relationship between the maximum number
of repetitions in a single set and the weight involved, is essentially linear
in the anaerobic range, and the relationship is independent of the weight. The
upshot is that increasing the number of pullups you can do is equivalent to
increasing the amount of weight you can do one pullup with. *And* many studies
have shown that the most effective way to increase  this "1 repetition maximum"
(1 RM) is to do sets to exhaustion of 3-6 repetitions. 

The point: the best way to increase the number of pullups you can do (a
basically anaerobic feat) is *not* to simply try to do more and more, but
rather to do sets with enough weight that you max out at 3-6 pullups. 

Related point. An increase in strength/power comes less from an increase in
muscle bulk than from so-called neuromuscular adaption. This includes two
aspects. First is an improvement in muscle fiber recruitment---the ability of
the nervous system to excite more fibers synchronously. Note that a fiber
either contracts or it doesn't. Lifting a heavy object (as opposed to a lighter
one) thus requires the involvement of more fibers.  The second aspect is a
reduction of inhibitory nerve impulses. In general, muscles are stronger than
the attached structures (tendons, ligaments), so a maximal contraction could
damage these structures. Thus the nervous system sends out inhibitory impulses
to prevent this. Everyone's heard about mothers lifting cars off their children
(no sexism implied, please!). This results from blocking of these inhibitory
impulses in an extreme situation.  What the stories don't say is that the
mother was probably a mess afterwards, with torn ligaments, etc. Anyway, it is
felt that a significant contributor to strength gains is a modest blockage (or
reduction) of these inhibitory impulses. Thus, one should be able to gain
significantly in strength/power without excessive weight gain. This in fact
happens with power lifters who experience significant strength gains over time
while remaining in the same weight class.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Subject: Re: Macho quiz (for Laura)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:13:34 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Nov18.170507.18960@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> bobh@minaret.hwr.arizona.edu (Bob Harrington) writes:
>In article <106480314@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison) writes:
>>This is the most important strength factor.  But even finger strength has two
>>aspects: power and endurance.  What's the worst/smallest hold you can grab
>>from the ground and pull on? vs. How long can you move on holds that are 50%
>>bigger than that worst hold?  These are very different.
>>
>
>I wonder how well correlated these two types of strength are in an individual.

Lets not forget about strength of resolve, which perhaps forms the basis
for building the two types of strength outlined above.

And then there's always physical pre-disposition, general body type for
instance.
-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: ghill@dot.cs.colorado.edu (Gregory Hill)
Subject: Re: Law Suits!!
Organization: Universtiy of Coloardo, Boulder
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:59:45 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.011845.3805@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>
>The right to sue is intimately tied to issues of free speech....
>All you are doing is asking for a "hearing."  It does not mean
>you will get a settlement, it does not mean you will win, but you can sure
>put the fear of God in some people.  Cause them to spend sleepless nights
>and spend money on a defense lawyer.
>
>American juries do not view climbing as an activity with any sense.
>This makes it very easy to get a case thrown out.  All the more reason
>for a lawyer to really try a lot harder to justify such cases.

on soapbox

I hope the above is sarcasm. Let's distinguish between the right to sue and the
integrity involved in exercising the right. Remember the childhood story about
the boy who cried wolf? It's the same way with KKK demonstrations and free speech
... sure, their right to demonstrate should not be taken away from them; that does
not mean that what they are doing is right. Similarly for nuisance lawsuits. 

off soapbox 

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern)
Subject: Re: Ice Climbing towers
Organization: NCAR/UCAR
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:47:48 GMT

There was an article in Outside magazine maybe 10 years back, about
doing outdoorsy sports in places you wouldn't expect:  Windsurf Nebraska,
Kayak Arkansas, etc.  Well, one of the items was:  Ice Climb Iowa.  A
guy ran a hose up an abandoned silo on his farm property, and created
an ice tower.  People drove *hours* just to climb his artificial ice
tower!  (He named it, "Where Pigeons Dare"...)

Don't ask me why I remember this.

-- 
/\     There may be honor among thieves, but there's none among politicians.
  \_][ <--NCAR Ilana Stern dod#009 r.b. cliff swallow ilana@ncar.ucar.edu    
      \______________________________________________________________________
Organization: Junior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA