HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The Hate Gene (was Re: Social Democracy)
Date: 9 Nov 1992 03:42:22 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: unlinfo.unl.edu

ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble) writes:

>In article <1992Nov1.131211.20448@macc.wisc.edu>, on 1 Nov 92 13:12:11 GMT,
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>>ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Newsbaum) writes>>
>>

Obloquy deleted.

>>Property makes ethics unthinkable.
>>
>To the contrary, the lack of property makes ethics impossible.

Although it would appear this last assertion would cause consternation
to the principal of the New Testament and followers such as Meister 
Eckhard, such is the ethical sensibility displayed that it seems 
any further exchange is pointless.

 
Colburn Eigen (wondering how JBN, who accepts employment by a public
(government) institution which he believes should be privately 
supported, can in good conscience retain such a post rather than be 
true to his convictions and only be employed in the private sector)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: OCA launches _new_ petition drive
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:26:00 GMT

gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell) wrote: 
->I thought he had SUCCEEDED in buying UPI.

he didn't; he decided not to after looking at the books.

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: raffin@fhr.ma30.bull.com (Patrick Raffin)
Subject: Re: Colorado Blues
Organization: Bull HN Information Systems Inc.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:59:06 GMT

In article <43263@imag.imag.fr> maffray@imag.fr (Frederic Maffray) writes:
>
>#> msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Michael S. Pettersen) writes:
>#
>#>I watched some of the international coverage on election night.  There
>#>was a program where they showed clips from Russian, Italian, Spanish,
>#>British, German and American television.  Some of the clips were subtitled or
>#>voiced-over, but the host, who was quite cute, did some
>#>simultaneous translation from English, Spanish and Italian.  It was also 
>#>charming to hear him say "Bill Clinton" (instead of "Beel Cleentow")
>#>in his adorable British accent (when he was speaking English)...
>
>Ahhh... ALEX TAYLOR....  One of the few reasons for watching
>TV here.  What a cutie!
>
>Watching him introduce The Avengers every morning at 10 --
>including an episode where crazy ophtalmologists try to kill
>Mrs. Peel with a laser -- was the hightlight of my summer.
>
>(And rumor has it he's family.)
>
>---
>Frederic Maffray

About Alex Taylor:
 I met him first time almost 10 years ago in one of the (then) "gay lib"
  groups in Paris
 he was in charge of the "petites annonces" (how do you say that in English?
  personal meeting ads?) on "Frequence Gaie" (the Parisian gay radio station)
 he is a very nice guy !
These are neither rumors nor secret facts; and I don't say anything about
 his sexuality.

--
Patrick RAFFIN, raffin@fhr.bull.com 
  __       Just a French tourist,
  \/       doesn't speak English, nor Unix
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
From: ckirby@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Charles Kirby)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 17:35:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.144507.1234@ncar.ucar.edu> gary@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:
>ck> Charles Kincy
>gs> Gary Strand
>
>ck> Well, see, it would be nice to be able to extend FOA privledges to every-
>    one.
>
>ck> But, unfortunately, a few people cannot handle the responsibility of this
>    privilege. 
>
>ck> So, we have to create "protected minorities" in order to keep people from
>    being steamrolled by those who abuse their FOA privs.  I don't like it any
>    more than you do, but it's necessary.
>
>ck> Really, what right do you have to fire someone who is bi or gay?
>
>ck> What does that have to do with their work performance?  Or even their per-
>    sonality? 
>
>ck> Well, at least you have some redeeming qualities.  
>
>ck> Most teens commit suicide due to extreme emotional trauma.  
>
>ck> I think the point Melinda was making was that 30% of the time, this trauma
>    was caused by society's persecution of homosexuals.  
>
>
>ck> If you were an emotionally troubled teen, faced with sure and certain per-
>    secution for the rest of your life, suicide would be an attractive alter-
>    native.
>
>ck> Could you elucidate?  It sounds like you're saying that it's easier for
>    *you* to bash blacks than to bash gays.  And I just don't want to believe
>    that.


BZZZZZZT.

I'm sorry, but you have chosen the wrong contestant.  While I'm sure
I probably wholeheartedly agree with anything anyone has to say (as
long as it's contrary to what you say),  I cannot take credit for
these things you have so kindly attributed to me.


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 05:55:47 GMT

In article <1dn3qsINNj0v@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>> [...] A 1990 CMU graduate, who was interviewed anonymously by
>> Scanlan, says, "Guys who were straight but not that great in the acting
>> field had a stronger chance of staying than the guys who had some
>> talent but were effeminate."
>Professional, world-class programs in the performing arts --
>and Carnegie Mellon's Drama Department is both -- have to take
>their student actors' "personal mannerisms" into consideration.
>It is a brute fact of life.  

Gad, shouldn't these students try "acting"?  I mean, not every role
is Queenie in _Fortune and Men's Eyes_.


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: hello
Date: 10 Nov 1992 02:16:53 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <721314916.F00001@tdkt.kksys.com> 
Alan.Moorman@f31.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Alan Moorman) writes:

> This is my first time on soc.motss...

This is probably my 100,000th.

> Imagine my chagrin when I downloaded 150 messages, and they were all
> dupes of two different messages, one blank, and one well into a thread
> about the purpose of soc.motss!

Heavens!

> Any of you have the same problem?

Honey, when real.life.soc.motss gets to be like that, I escape
to fantasy.soc.motss, where there are any number of interesting
threads going on.  I've been following (and contributing to)
threads on the *fabulous* Susan Kohner; on the marvy musical 
numbers in _Inside Daisy Clover_ ("The circus is a wacky world / 
How I love it"); on how unbelievably sexy German diver Albin 
Killat is; on the recent CD release of Rosemary Clooney's 
Harold Arlen record (people whose taste I trust swear that it's
great, and, since I think Arlen is *the* American composer, I'm
very curious to hear it); on Conchita Supervia's recordings of
Rossini in comparison to Cecilia Bartoli's -- I worship Conchita,
and not just because she and I (and Elisabeth Schwarzkopf) share
birthdays; on Ivie Anderson (next to the divine Billie Holiday,
my favorite non-classical vocalist); on Ben Jonson, whose plays
and masques I've been reading compulsively for the last couple of 
weeks for some odd reason; on T.C. Jones's uncanny impression of 
the fabu Tallulah; on Frances Faye, whose up-tempo recording of 
"The Man I Love" -- with bongos -- is the definitive recording
of the song; etc.

> Anyway... Hello to you all, hope the messages have a little more variety
> from how on!  (Grin)

*Please* start a thread that I can follow-up on real.life.soc.motss.

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Social Democracy
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 14:40:05 GMT


In article <19921104235835ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble) writes:

>I'd be delighted to meet [...] Matthew Melmon.  He has a
>delicious sense of humor [...]

Do it!  Then we'll have a Gang of One (or a little less).
You guys can sit around and roar at pictures from Somalia
for fun.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: CO-2 Ammendment
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 23:05:34 GMT


In article <BxB56w.6Kx@scd.hp.com> mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike
Drayton) writes:

>Clayton Cramer (cramer@optilink.UUCP) wrote:
 
>> The Physician Assisted Death Initiative failed.  Term limits for Congressmen
>> passed.  If only we could have combined the two... two terms, and a doctor
>> does lethal injection...

>What a guy!  Give 'im a hand, folks!

Hey, can we elect Cramer to both his terms at once?

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
<>  <>  <> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <>  <>  <>
From: ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Military info needed
Date: 13 Nov 92 00:45:08 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.202122.9286@ncselxsi.uucp>, on 11 Nov 1992 20:21:22 GMT,
fisher@ncselxsi.uucp (Chuck Fisher) writes:

>
>You're probably refering to Keith Meinhold of Moffett N.A.S. in
>Mountain View, California.  Keith had come out last spring on ABC TV
>and was terminated from the US Navy a short time later.  He filed suit
>and a Federal court judge in Los Angeles issued an order to have Keith
>reinstated at his old job.  Keith was refused re-entry at the gate
>with the court order in-hand on Monday.  His attorneys promptly sought
>a contempt of court citation from the judge.  The net result is that
>the "top brass" are allowing Keith to report to duty on Thursday.
>
>Local media have given this case a lot of coverage, including Clinton's
>expected executive order rescinding the ban when he is inaugurated in
>January.
>
Well, let's hope that Clinton has enough integrity to keep his campaign
pledge. Already there are rumblings that Admiral Crowe, the Chief of
Staff under Bush who defected to the Clinton camp, is attempting to
persuade Clinton against issuing the executive order.

I can see the rationalization going something like: "Well, I really
would like to, but our military has convinced me that we need to study
the question for a while to determine the effect on the armed services
as a whole."

        =Jack=
---

Jack B. Newsbaum             You have rights antecedent to all earthly
Library Information Systems  governments; rights that cannot be
University Research Library  repealed or restrained by human law.
ecl4jn2@mvs.oac.ucla.edu               - John Adams
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: glenns@tronsbox.xei.com (Glenn S.)
Subject: Re: MOTSS pix
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 19:16:17 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.230441.22719@midway.uchicago.edu> elle@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

>No, no, *no*.  I absolutely _refuse_.

Aww... chicken! :}
 
B*B
Glenn

-- 
+-----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| Bright Blessings from Glenn Sieb! | glenns@tronsbox.xei.com       Internet|
| Eye of Newt, Toe of Frog and a    | Glenn Sieb  1:107/869          FIDOnet|
| side of fries    ... please!      | Glenn Sieb  93:9400/5           PODnet|
+-----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Subject: Re: What to do about Colorado
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 18:26:30 GMT

In <1d9k29INNqb1@fido.asd.sgi.com> kenj@kambo.esd.sgi.com
(Ken ``Blackfur'' Jones) writes:
>BTW, I'd like to point out that the Colorado measure specifically
>lists bisexuality.  I want to emphasize that to anyone out there who
>happens to question inclusion of bisexuals in gay and lesbian space.
>I find it interesting that some gay and lesbian groups can be so
>intransigent on bisexuality inclusion whereas the bigots are more
>than willing to paint us with the same brush.  If the bigots can be
>so inclusive, why can't the gay and lesbian communities?  This is no
>time for division in our ranks.

You will build better and more cohesive communities through
laughter/dancing/fun than you will through being on the receiving end
of a common form of oppression, because love and friendship are
stronger bonds than fear.

I hope that the future will yield better relations between lesbians,
gay men and bi folk, but I don't think that thinkng "we have a common
enemy so we should be allies" will do it. I think it might be better to
work towards separate, neighbouring communities than trying to force
everyone into a single monolythic GLB community.


Ciaran.
-- 
---- Ciaran McHale (cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie)
\bi/ Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.
 \/  Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-6772204
From: jf@threel.co.uk (John Fisher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Social Democracy
Date: 9 Nov 92 13:49:41 GMT
Organization: 3L Ltd, 86/92 Causewayside, Edinburgh EH9 1PY, UK

In article <1992Nov5.144114.28867@macc.wisc.edu>,
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

> In article <19921104235835ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
> ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble) writes:
> 
> >What I do know is that [Sarver] has been unjustly accused of
> >being homophobic merely because he made the observation that
> >the media focuses on a certain segment of the GLB community
> >not viewed in great esteem by the public at large when the
> >media cover gay pride parades (This is an observation which
> >has been made, incidentally, by a number of GLB activist
> >groups as well),
> 
> Interesting gloss on "merely."  Which "GLB activist groups" do
> you refer to?

Well, I'm not too keen on labelling people "homophobic", a
term which seems to me to be used either far too widely or
far too narrowly, I'm not sure which. 

What annoyed me about Mr Sarver was his clearly stated,
indeed endlessly reiterated, scorn and distaste (I won't
even say "dislike", far too neutral a word for what he had
to say) for anyone who didn't fall into his category of
"masc. gays".  He clearly felt that such people were
unworthy of anyone's regard, that straight people were right
to dislike them, and that if they couldn't mend their ways
they should stay out of all public view. 

I felt that was ignorant and oppressive, and an insult to a
whole swathe of people for whom I have the deepest respect. 

In the end I found his postings so unpleasant that I stopped
reading them. 

Whether this makes him homophobic is open to debate.  But
please don't make him out to be a cruelly-wronged innocent.
He trailed his coat and it got stood on.

--John
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Inconsistency re CO boycott
Date: 6 Nov 1992 13:35:35 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: soc
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Nov6.195815.9462@tc.cornell.edu> 
shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:

> If you think that I would knowingly put one
> penny (either directly or through taxes) into the coffers
> of a state which just voted my rights away, think again.

I have conducted just such a boycott against Georgia 
ever since Bowers v Hardwick. 

Arne
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Leftists Under Every Shrub (Re: Social Democracy)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 13:49:36 GMT


In article <19921106003718ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble) writes:

>If you really want a quintessential example of Uncle Tomism,
>you need only look in this newsgroup at the various
>apologists for Clinton's past record of homophobic inaction
>in his stint as governor of Arkansas.

I haven't seen any apologies for Clinton's record as governor
of Arkansas here.  Have you?  When and by whom?

I have seen considerable reservation expressed about his
nonaction on our issues, however.  Maybe you were confused
by his subsequent positions.  If he fails to deliver, I
expect you'll see more than a few denunciations here.

>Apparently, it's quite politically correct to condone
>homophobia so long as it furthers the political agenda of
>the left.

We're getting used to that sort of "logic" from you, Jack.
Your reason takes flight as soon as the concept "left"
enters your head, whether it should be there or not.

>Another example with which I have first hand experience is
>in the case of GLAAD/LA's (Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against
>Defamation/Los Angeles) criticism of Oliver Stone's movie
>_JFK_.  At the time we pointed out that all the villains in
>the story were cast as gays whose lifestyle consisted of an
>orgiastic party after another when they weren't otherwise
>conspiring to assassinate the president.

That aspect of the film was denounced here, too.

>Meanwhile many of the character flaws of DA Jim
>Garrison, portrayed by Stone as a white knight in shining
>armor, were overlooked -- among which was that in real life
>he was a notorious homophobe who personally ordered the New
>Orleans police department to raid gay bars.

I did not see that mentioned here, but I'd seen it
elsewhere.  There were no apologias here, certainly.

>Here too, the leftist Uncle Toms were perfectly willing to
>condone homophobia when it suited their agenda.

I wouldn't call JFK conspiracy theories leftist.  It's a
comment on your prejudgments of ideas that you do.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
<>  <>  <> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <>  <>  <>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cs106406@umbc8.umbc.edu (cs106406)
Subject: Re: Marching on Washington and Protesting Bigotry
Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County Campus
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:25:22 GMT

In article <7960@transfer.stratus.com> lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:
>I think the events in Colorado makes it all the more important
>for any of us who CAN go to the march in Washington this spring
>SHOULD go.  Can you imagine the effect of 300,000 people marching
>in Washington, carrying signs that say "Shame, Colorado!"?

Organizers of the last national March on Washington (1987) estimated
the crowd at 750,000.  Even the park police gave us 250-300,000.

Can you imagine the effect of __1,300,000__ people marching in
Washington?

See you all on the Mall!

mj

Xref: sparky soc.motss:46045 alt.sex.bondage:21135
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Movie Review - "Marquis"
Date: 5 Nov 92 09:07:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov5.090748.20130
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

I just saw an interesting new French movie: "Marquis". It's a farce
based on the life of the Marquis de Sade, during the time that he was
in the Bastille right before the French Revolution.

The movie itself is fairly unusual - the actors all wear large puppet
masks that are animal charicatures. The main characters are the
Marquis himself, the Marquis' penis Colin, a bishop, the jailer,
Juliette, Justine, and sundry revolutionaries.

The story was well written. The "plot" involves the Marquis'
experiences in the Bastille during the year before the revolution. The
characters are mainly written in de Sade's own satire - the bishop is
a lech, the jailer is a sodomite, etc. Justine and Juliette receive
better treatment than the de Sade himself gave them - they are fairly
sympathetic characters. Curiously, the Marquis himself is portrayed as
a serene and intellectual man, distanced from the violent sexual acts
he writes about.

I should note that in that the movie is based on the writings of the
Marquis de Sade, there are some scenes that portray distrubing
violence against women. I felt the movie itself was quite non-sexist,
especially the way Justine and Juliette were real characters, but
there are some upsetting scenes.

The director (whose name I have forgotten, unfortunately) did a great
job on the film. The music's good, and the costumes are wonderful, and
basically everything is well done except the subtitling. Worth your
time to see, if you can find it. Check the repertory theatres in your
area.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                    The sully-van vultures are on the prowl
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Mouse Balls
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:37:50 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

I was sent the following alert - which actually went out to
engineers in the field (the mega-corporation responsible shall
go without name...).  Persons responsible for sending me this
memo expressed the belief that it was genuine.  While I do believe
the memo went out, I also believe the person who wrote it was 
well aware of opportunities for alternative interpretation...

   Mouse balls are now available as FRU.  Therefore, if a mouse 
   fails to operate or should it perform erratically, it may 
   need a ball replacement.  Because of the delicate nature of 
   this procedure, replacement of mouse balls should only be 
   attempted by properly trained personnel.

   Before proceeding, determine the type of mouse balls by 
   examining the underside of the mouse.  Domestic balls will 
   be larger and harder than foreign balls.  Ball removal 
   procedures differ depending upon manufacturer of the mouse.  
   Domestic balls are replaced using the twist-off method.  
   Mouse balls are not usually static sensitive.  However, 
   excessive handling can result in sudden discharge.  Upon 
   completion of ball replacement, the mouse may be used 
   immediately.

   It is recommended that each replacement have a pair of spare 
   balls for maintaining optimum customer satisfaction, and 
   that any customer missing his balls should suspect local 
   personnel of removing these necessary items.


There are far too many buried jewels (sudden discharge, any
customer missing his balls...) for this to have been something
less than a brilliant flash of bureaucratic faboolzery.  Kind
of like FUBAR.

*X*