From: nbh@csuohio.edu (Noah Hester)
Subject: Fox+Microsoft
Organization: Cleveland State University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:36:08 GMT



The following comments regarding Microsoft aquisition of Fox were
downloaded from the BBS PC-OHIO (216-381-3320).  The filenames are
foxs.326 and fox-ms.326.  Other than combining the two files, the
comments are in their orginal format.  The source and the context are 
unknown.

FILE dbas.326*****************

Fm: David McClanahan 72517,1124

        As part of the merger, David Fulton, president of Fox
Software, will join Microsoft as the database architect of
Microsoft's newly formed Database and Development Tools
division.  Over time, Fox and Microsoft database development
teams will combine efforts at Microsoft's Redmond, Wash.,
headquarters.
       "The merger with Fox Software will provide Microsoft
with great development talent, as well as leading-edge database
technology," said Bill Gates, Microsoft chairman and CEO.  "Our
intention is to combine expertise and provide users with a
family of complememtary products The two companies will benefit
greatly from each other's experience and technology.
      "Fox offers the best database development environment for
desktop database applications across multiple platforms," Gates
continued.  "It complements our forthcoming database for
WindowsTM (codenamed Cirrus), the MicrosoftR SQL Server
transaction processing database server, and our Open Database
Connectivity (ODBC) technology.  We soon will be able to offer
customers a complete family of superior scalable database
applications and development environments."
       "Fox Software's FoxPro 2.0 has won numerous awards for
its speed, development tools, and user interface," said David
Fulton.  "xBASE developers count on Fox products to create the
fastest possible database applications.  With Microsoft's
marketing, distribution and international resources, we believe
our merger will help to ensure that the xBASE platform has a
viable and thriving future."
       The proposed merger, which is subject to governmental
approval and execution of a final agreement, is expected to be
completed during Microsoft's fourth fiscal quarter.

Fm: Mike Hedblom 76030,605

During Philippe's talk at DBExpo he showed Paradox for Windows
running with a Paradox (.DB) and a dBASE (.DBF) table and
linking them. The resulting table is whatever you want,
virtual, .DB, .DBF,...  I believe he said the same would be
true for dBASE for Windows.

Fm: Pat Adams 75146,3121

Dave Fulton would be the first to tell you that he is a
developer, not an administrator.  <g>  He will be in charge of
organization-wide database architecture at Microsoft (including
SQL Server) with a team of over 100 developers - including the
current Fox developers.  In other words, he will have resources
he could never have at Fox Software and Microsoft will have the
top PC database architect to guide its efforts.  Sounds like a
pretty good deal to me.

Fm: George F. Goley IV 71140,3527

I agree Gary, MS made a good purchase, and Fox developers who
have touted FoxPro to their clients have been given an ENORMOUS
boost.  BTW, Cirrus will be positioned as more of an enduser
product than an applications development tool. In comparing MS
new product line to Borland's, Bill Gates identified Cirrus as
analgous to Paradox, and FoxPro as analagous to dBASE IV for
Windows.

Fm: Pat Adams 75146,3121

IMHO the Microsoft/Fox merger is a WIN WIN for everyone and
particularly for X-Base developers.  With Dave Fulton moving to
head up Microsoft's organization wide database architecture we
should not only be able to count on the continuation of good
FoxPro product but should also be able to look for good
product in that area directly from Microsoft.   And not only
does Microsoft intent to retain the Fox development team, it's
a key part of the agreement.

Borland's acquisition of Ashton-Tate and the Microsoft/Fox
merger validate X-Base as *THE* PC database language of the
next decade or two.  That leaves X-Base developers sitting
pretty.  Now I wonder how much IBM will pay to acquire
Wordtech?

Fm: Sysop David Frier 76702,1417

Microsoft support for DEVELOPERS has always been atrocious,
what makes you think Dr. Dave will be able to make HIS little
corner of MS any different?

Just because you think the sun rises from Dave's fundament
doesn't make it so.  You know the joke about the Apple-IBM
deal?  Q. What do you get when you cross IBM and Apple?  A.
IBM.  Well, it's so much more so now that it isn't even worth
recasting.  I think Fox died today, with a smile on Dave's
bankbook.  That is all.

X-Base will be a matter of Borland vs. Nantucket.

Fm: Luis Castro 73767,3702

From what I understood of FoxPro's architecture, they had
indeed HIT THE WALL.  FoxPro's pcode interpreter is the fastest
one can possibly engineer, and still it was sluggish. The only
way to improve the speed was to go machine code. This is what
Nantucket is doing with Aspen.

Fulton made the right decision. They were behind Nantucket in
the language architecture front by at least two years, and
Borland was going to kill them on the Windows front. This was
their time to sell.

Now Fulton has the opportunity to re-evaluate the whole, clunky
FoxPro-thing and recreate it from the ground up. The new MS
FoxPro will not be anything like the current one. However, it
will take him at least two years to recreate it.

Fm: Damon Ginbey 73637,3555

Philippe Kahn was very happy today during his keynote speech at
dbExpo92 in San Francisco. He was giving a demo of dBase
Windows when he casually mentioned that he was very excited
that MS had bought Fox software. To demonstate his emotion he
played some digitized songs from within dBW: James Brown
singing "I Feel Good!" and a couple of other upbeat songs.
After the speech he said he was glad because MS had validated
dBase as a language and because he liked being the "little guy"
competing against MS. He implied that he didn't enjoy competing
with Fox because they were too small.
  BTW dBase Windows and Paradox Windows both look fantastic.
They can both read and write dBase and Paradox files. In fact,
both formats can be combined in the same report. They both look
like excellent windows applications. PK demonstrated a great
understanding of corporate computing needs which Fox has never
seemed to care about.
  Top this off with Steve Jobs demoing NextStep 486 and it was
one hell of a day in San Francisco!

Fm: George F. Goley IV 71140,3527

I had the exceptional opportunity today to spend 30 minutes on
the phone with both Bill Gates and Dave Fulton discussing their
plans for the new Microsoft DBMS group.

Here are a few notes:

1. Bill Gates expects the database group of products to obtain
the same prominence as MS's current spreadsheet and word
processing groups. These existing groups currently represent
$500 MILLION businesses each. (No matter how you look at it,
there are going to be alot of copies of FoxPro out there VERY
SOON. As a FoxPro trainer, author,  and developer, I couldn't
be happier.  Could you?)

2. Dave Fulton will be in charge of the 100+ person database
   group,      which will include ALL of the current Fox
   Software development team.  IOW, the same people that
   created FoxPro 2.0 (which is currently the best PC DBMS
available) will keep right on doing what they are doing.
They'll just have lots of marketing, sales, and development
help.

3. Dave's major reason for the move, aside from the substantial
sum of MONEY involved <g>, was to have access to more
developers. With a larger staff, Dave and crew can move forward
on more projects simultaneously.  This was the one area with
which Fox Software alone could not compete with Borland.

4. As the phone call itself pointed out, and as Bill Gates
emphasized several times, Microsoft understands that the
developer community is VERY IMPORTANT to the success of
MS/FoxPro.

5. MS has already assisted Fox with some Windows specific
suggestions,   but Bill was quick to add that the first
priority was the timely release of FoxPro/Windows, Mac, and
Unix. IOW, there will be no 2 month "redesign" delay in the
release of these products.

6. MS looks forward to putting some marketing muscle behind the
FoxPro DOS, Windows, and MAC products, both domestically and
overseas. IOW, MS will maintain Fox's cross-platform strategy.

7. MS was at least as interested in the acquisition of the Fox
development team as it was in the acquisition of FoxPro.

I think that it is especially important that Bill recognized
the importance of keeping the team together, and the importance
of the people at Fox. Other companies attempting such a
takeover, might be tempted to acquire the technology, and
immediately try to gain complete control over development by
inserting their own staff into the mix.

I find it very encouraging that:

  1. Bill stated that the acquisition of the development team
was of paramount importance to the deal.
  2. The current Fox team will complete all work on the current
projects without substantial "help" from MS developers.
  3. Dave Fulton was made the architect of the DBMS group.
  4. Janet Walker was retained as product manager.

Much has been written about the potential clash of egos between
Dave Fulton and Bill Gates, but they have started VERY well,
and I have high hopes for their success.

Fm: George F. Goley IV 71140,3527

In my opinion, the Microsoft / Fox merger is an outstanding
event in the history of microcomputing, and one which will have
an enormously positive impact on the fortunes of FoxPro
developers.

Here are some reasons:

1. The market for FoxPro will increase by 20X in the next year.
Consequently, the demand for FoxPro expertise will also
increase. If you want a number, I'd wager that by the end of
1995 there will be in excess of 2 million copies of FoxPro in
the world. That number could not have been achieved without the
merger.

2. FoxPro 2.0 has a substantial initial learning curve. Current
FoxPro developers will have a huge head start on the
competition.

3. From a selfish standpoint, Micro Endeavors looks forward to
an ever increasing demand for FoxPro training.

4. Corporate clients will be even more anxious to jump on the
FoxPro bandwagon now that questions about "the small firm in
Ohio" can be dismissed.

5. Dave Fulton, freed of adminstrative/PR chores, can go back
to doing what he does best, DEVELOP KILLER DBMS SOFTWARE! The
only difference is, now he will have 100+ people to help him do
it!

6. FoxPro Windows will be a better product with MS's help. This
will give Fox developers an even greater edge over Paradox and
dBASE IV for Windows developers.

7. Corporate clients who are interested in "strategic
platforms" will become FoxPro fans when MS explains its plans
for linking FoxPro and Cirrus to SQL Server.

8. Mac developers will be happy to see the FoxPro Mac product
pushed out the door a little sooner than it might have been,
and they should thrilled by the prospect of MS's support for
what will undoubtedly be the best DBMS for the Mac.

9. Developers who are looking to foreign markets will be
gratified by MS's ability to market overseas on a scale that
Fox simply couldn't match.

10. The merger itself will create news in a way that developers
can exploit by being available for comment. This should extend
to the trade press, business press, local users groups, and
clients.
 



      FILE foxs.326 **************************
Fm: David Kalman 71441,1436

Joseph. You are completely off-base. Dave IS in charge of
FoxPro. He and the entire development team will move to
Redmond. Also, Dave is extremely impressed with Microsoft's
Cirrus project. When Cirrus ships, it will definitely
complement FoxPro.

This is perhaps the best news ever in the xbase community.
Nothing against Borland, but they bought a tainted property for
too much money.

The first effect of the merger is that FoxPro's sales will
explode.

The second effect is that Borland will have to bear down, with
the benefits accruing to the users. Borland will ship great
dBASE products, now improved due to the added competition.

Third, we'll get FoxPro capabilities that Fox Software a lone
was unable to provide in a timely fashion, including the SQL
connectivity, and ODBC (open database connectivity) under
Windows. They'll also benefit from Microsoft's user interface
technology. Bill Gates has no interest in tinkering with Xbase.
He could have built his own Xbase or bought WordTech. Instead,
he's interested in the FoxPro product and even more interested
,perhaps, in the FoxPro developers. This is great.

Fm: Pat Adams 75146,3121

Bill Gates has told me that the key to the whole deal was Dave
Fulton and the members of the development team signing
individual agreements to work for Microsoft and move to
Redmond.  As a matter of fact, Sue Miller is heading up the
team (which includes Microsoft people) responsible for getting
those people moved and in Seattle as we speak.

Under the circumstances, I believe that BG wanted the
development team even more than he wanted the code.  Whatever
else can be said about Gates, he is no one's fool and looks to
the future.  Source code is only a one-shot thing.  He wants
much more than that.

Fm: George F. Goley IV 71140,3527

When a certain industry pundit pointed out to Phillipe Kahn
that FoxPro was superior to Paradox and dBASE IV, and that
FoxPro for Windows was likely to be superior to dBASE IV for
Windows, Phillipe replied, and I'm paraphrasing, "Do you want
to bet your company that Fox will be around for the long run?"

Well Phillipe, now we know that Fox will be around for a long
time. We also know that the old "company size" argument that A-
T threw around for so long to deflect questions about the
relative worth of dBASE vs.  Clipper and FoxPro, won't be
available to Borland.

IOW, the merger means that BOTH companies will have to compete
on features, performance, connectivity, etc., not just on
image. This can only be a great thing for the xBASE community.

Anyway baseball fans, how do you like the following starting
lineups:

DOS                  FoxPro 2.0              dBASE IV 1.5
MAC                  FoxPro/Mac              ........
Windows/Development  FoxPro/Windows          dBASE IV/Windows
Windows/EndUser      Cirrus                  Paradox
Client/Server        SQL-Server              Interbase
UNIX                 FoxPro/Unix             dBASE IV/UNIX

The only good news for Borland fans is that Borland is now
clearly the underdog in the PC DBMS race. This is a role they
relish, and one that could spur them to create some terrific
software in an effort to catch up.

For now however, the Fox/MS team has better players at most
positions.   They also have (in the persons of Dave Fulton,
Eric C., Bill F. et.  al.) a track record of consistently
producing the best PC DBMS products on the market.

It's a great time to be a Fox developer.

Regards...George

Newsgroups: comp.databases