HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kambic@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Bonus, Iniquus, Celer - Delegitus Duo)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Where has Galileo been all these years?
Date: 10 Nov 92 11:48:01 EST

In article <1992Nov10.114254.7116@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU>, dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott) writes:
> In article <1df9qjINNi5h@gap.caltech.edu> carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:
>>In article <2930020228.3.p00168@psilink.com>, "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com> writes:
>>>Did I hear correctly?  Has the Vatican now officially recognized the
>>>!!!SUN as the center of the universe?  Surely not.
>>Actually, it's officially acknowledged the Big Bang.
> Talking of which, there is a fairly new book out challenging the Big Bang
> Theory. But can't remember the publ. details. Anyone know off hand?
> If the Big Bang gets out of vogue one day, I wonder how long it
> would take the Vatican to readjust to the new paradigm-shift? :-)

With all due respect ( a quantum's worth )  RTFB and get back to us, say about
the year 2000.

GXKambic
sd
From: tds@hoserve.att.com (Tony DeSimone)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Efficacy of Prayer
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:41:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: qpc1.TDS.92Nov13134134
	<1dv0ueINN7mm@gap.caltech.edu> <1992Nov13.172042.22232@udel.edu>
Reply-To: tds@hoserve.att.com (Tony DeSimone)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

>>>>> On Fri, 13 Nov 1992 17:20:42 GMT, mccoy@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Don McCoy) said:
Don> Nntp-Posting-Host: pecan.cns.udel.edu

Don> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:
>kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney) writes:
>
>>It seems to me that the most natural mode of human behavior is to act in
>>one's own self-interest, without particular concern for others.  >

>I disagree.  I think that a natural morality exists.  It is an instinct--a
>product of evolution that allowed humans to live in groups, thus greatly
>increasing their survival rate.  Of course, in effect (in the long run at
>least), acting in regard to others is in your best interest, or else you
>won't get the things you want.

Don> Keith,
Don> 	You're right in that this instinct has evolved, but why do
Don> you chose to call it "natural morality"?  It's a loaded term, 
Don> totally inappropriate for describing the phenomenon.  If interested,
Don> read:
Don> 	"The Evolution of Strategies in the Iterated
Don> 	 Prisoner's Dilemma"  by Robert Axelrod
Don>          in _Genetic Algorithms and Simulated Annealing_ 
Don>          (Research notes in artificial intelligence)
Don> 	 David Lawrence, ed. {ISBN -0-934613-44-3}

An interesting paper along these lines appears in a recent issue of
Nature.  (Sorry, I don't have a good citation, but I just saw it in
the library's displayed copy yesterday so it's probably the current
issue.)  If I'm remebering it right, Axelrod's work involves
``memory'' (remembering how your opponent behaved in the past).  The
new paper is again ``memoryless'' but involves more than pair-wise
contests, e.g. contests among nine sites on a square lattice.  Very
complicated structures emerge, depending on the particular values of
the payoffs.  One striking configuration showed large groups of
``cooperators'' clustered together, with ``conflictors'' surviving at
the interstices in small numbers.

I'll leave the interpretation to those of you with a more sociological
bent....
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: Innumeracy (Was: Re: Jeane Dixon Predicts Bush Victory)
Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 19:49:52 GMT

kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner) writes:
:: 
: My friends and I share stories about innumeracy, like the sales girl at
: Mrs. Field's Cookies who, when asked why she was weighing each cookie
: individually (they were all the same $/lb), responded indignantly with
: "Well, they're not all the same size."  Sigh.
: 

I heard an education expert interviewed on public radio a while back.
She was a proponent of outcome based educate (OBE).  She talked about
the high rate of illiteracy and innumeracy in graduates of the the
present educational system.  She then stated that with new methods
like OBE, and hard work, and commitment from parents "everybody could
be above average."  She wasn't ripping off Garrison Kiellor's joke
either, she was dead serious.

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  I wonder if I ought to
Rosemount Inc.                                |tell them about my PREVIOUS
                                              |LIFE as a COMPLETE STRANGER?
grante@aquarius.rosemount.com                 |
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Efficacy of Prayer
Date: 11 Nov 1992 06:06:09 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Nov11.024428.1534@hfsi.uucp>, ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata - FSO) writes:
>Just think what this world would be like if say 25% of the world population
>adhered to that teaching!

Right.  Reminds me of an old phrase:  "If I had some eggs, I could make some
ham and eggs, if I had some ham."  John a creed that goes against human nature
and which is unachievable can very well do great harm even if it looks good on
paper.  In fact, ESPECIALLY if it looks good on paper.  So your argument in
favor of Christianity, to wit, that we can't judge it based on its empirical
results because people can't conform to its ideal is utterly fallacious.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Xref: sparky sci.skeptic:19045 alt.best.of.internet:105
From: p00168@psilink.com (James F. Tims)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.best.of.internet
Subject: Re: Extreme Cretinism
Date: 5 Nov 92 03:37:53 GMT
Organization: Semper Excelsior
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

>DATE:   Wed, 4 Nov 92 20:03:41 GMT
>FROM:   Eric Pepke <pepke@scri.fsu.edu>
>
>In article <1992Nov2.052521.28672@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU> 
>dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott) writes:
>> Finally, I am looking for proofs that I do not exist. If anyone can
>> manage one, it will make this newsgroup much more productive (but less
>> entertaining).
>
>Every posting associated with the name Derek Abbott can be explained 
>exclusively in terms of NNTP packets.  The hypothesis of such an entity is 
>therefore extraneous, and the onus is on those who hold that Derek Abbott 
>exists to offer proof.
>
>Eric Pepke                                    INTERNET: pepke@scri.fsu.edu
>Supercomputer Computations Research Institute MFENET:   pepke@fsu
>Florida State University                      SPAN:     scri::pepke
>Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052                    BITNET:   pepke@fsu
>
>Disclaimer: My employers seldom even LISTEN to my opinions.
>Meta-disclaimer: Any society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.

Cold science at its best.

-- 
jim tims 
"And if you're a miner, when you're too tired and old and sick and stupid
to do your job properly, you have to go, whereas just the opposite applies
with the judges."  Beyond the Fringe
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Efficacy of Prayer
Date: 8 Nov 1992 22:54:19 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1dk53sINN9or@gap.caltech.edu>, kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney) writes:
>Now, an argument that Christianity is wrong because the actions of its
>followers is wrong can be tested.  If their wrong actions were definitely
>required by Christianity, then Christianity is wrong.

OK.

>If their wrong
>actions were based on an obvious misinterpretation of Christianity,  
>Christianity is exonerated.

Obvious to WHOM?  Are you claiming that this "misinterpretation" was obvious to
the people whom YOU claim misinterpreted it?  If not, then how do you justify
your implicit claim that YOUR interpretation is more valid than theirs?  Again: 
If you're talking about some ideal concept that never has and most likely never
will actually see implementation, then invent your own word for it.  The term
"Christianity" is already taken.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: AIDS and the CIA (was Question)
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:03:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: netnews.97362
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: stovall@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Steven Stovall)

In article <stovall.721592311@ficus.cs.ucla.edu>, stovall@ficus (Steven Stovall) writes:
>>So far, one teaspoonful of original vaccine has been found.  The review
>>board did not study the material, but went over the chain of cause and
>>effect very carefully, and decided it was a very long shot.

>Thanks for the hard information. But I dont understand why they didnt do
>a PCR on the material in parallel with their "causal analysis" (whatever
>that means).

Neither do I.  I do not know the state of the sample, nor the timing of
its discovery vis-a-vis the report.

>	      Also, are they absolutely sure this material is from the
>vaccine stock in question?

I don't know anything about this.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Xref: sparky sci.skeptic:19011 rec.org.mensa:7989
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Astrology: Scientific Research
Date: 4 Nov 92 11:02:26 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

In article <1992Oct31.195121.27772@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> banghartr@clvax1.cl.msu.edu (Rick Banghart, IPTV) writes:

>Why is a statistical correlation weaker evidence?
>It seems to me that a strong statistical correlation between
>planet positions and human behavior, found by independent
>researchers, and mutually confirming, would be very strong
>evidence.

there is an incredibly strong negative correlation between the soccer 
matches I predict as score draws and the ones that actually do turn out to 
be.  but there is no causal link.
correlations may indicate areas worth investigating, but have little 
intrinsic meaning.

  There's wild bad drink in Tuam,  get that wasp off my sandwich
  (the Saw Doctors)                          email: d.budd@mcc.ac.uk
  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England   (44|0)61-275-6033
From: marty@beta.lanl.gov (Martin G. Halvorson)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Audis (was Re: Repressed Memories, Ruined Lives)
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:08:23 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory


	As the owner of an Audi 5000 CSQ (for Quattro), I feel obliged to
	set the record straight.

	1.  Brakes are always more powerful than the engine.  A technique
	used by *every* car magazine test to minimize 0-60 times is to apply
	maximum brake and throttle simultaneously.  The car does *not*
	move until the brake is released.

	2. NHTSA report exonerated Audi completely.  The reported stated
	flatly the problem was mis-application of control pedals.  i.e. the
	wrong pedal was depressed.

	3. Audi transmissions did *not* have a problem.  The Audi
	transmission operated exactly the same as *every* other
	manufacturers transmission.  The change Audi made was to "idiot
	proof" their transmission by adding an inter-lock (subsequently
	adopted by other manufacturers) that prevented the transmission from
	being shifted out of "park" unless the brake were applied.

	4. Several agencies discovered the problem was more prevalent in
	other manufacturers cars.  During the investigations it was
	discovered that there were significantly more complaints about other
	manufacturers cars than Audi.  The problem is that "60 Minutes", for
	reasons of their own, chose to highlight the supposed problem by
	using an Audi.

	Peace

				Marty Halvorson
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Efficacy of Prayer
Date: 11 Nov 1992 06:01:19 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Nov11.005001.8143@donner.SanDiego.NCR.COM>, kraus@.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Dave Kraus) writes:
>Yes, you are probably right, but that doesn't make Christianity useless or
>invalid. It is a lofty goal that can improve men/women who strive to
>achieve it.

And in the process cripples with guilt many who have been told they're supposed
to achieve it and that it's possible to at least come very close to achieving
it.  Of course, the Church also gives you a way to get rid of the guilt they've
just induced.  Actually, the fact that this particular religion gets rid of the
guilt is one of its big selling points.

Hmmm.  What happens to a physician who's found to be inducing spurious symptoms
in his patients and then "curing" them.  Interesting double standard, isn't it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: jlg@cochiti.lanl.gov (J. Giles)
Subject: Re: 2nd Ammendment
Keywords: None
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 20:46:54 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.133648.1557@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, colten@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (marc.colten) writes:
|> [...]
|> 1)  A 12 year old boy takes his father's pistol to school with him.
|>     Can school officials take it away?

Yes.  Underage and on government owned property, either of which
are recognized as adequate reasons to suspend *lots* of rights
if the controlling authority decides (I can't carry a camera or
a tape recorder into my office).  The same is true of private
schools, for different reasons: I can forbid *anyone* of any age
from entering my property armed - except police with a warrant.

|> [...]
|> 2)  A violent criminal is released on bail.  His first stop is
|>     a gun store - can he be forbidden to buy the gun?

If he has prior felony *convictions*, he can be denied the gun.
He can also be denied the vote, etc....  Of course, not all 
jurisdictions have such constraints in place.  If there are no 
*convictions* against him, then his rights are intact - even while 
on bail.  The police are likely to be keeping a watch on him though.

|> [...]
|> 3)  I rent an apartment overlooking a schoolyard.  Early one morning
|>     I screw down the tripod of an automatic weapon to the window sill,
|>     attach the gun so it points down towards the schoolyard,
|>     and sit there by the gun, smiling, waiting for recess.  Can
|>     anyone make me not do this?

Probably not.  But I guarantee someone will try (assuming you're
spotted).  Certainly, it would be irresponsible of the school to
allow the kids out for recess if they know of such a situation.
If you ever actually fire the weapon into the schoolyard, the 
nearest police sharp-shooter will probably just kill you (and
serve you right too).

|> [...]
|> 4)  You like to ride on public transportation, holding your Magnum
|>     in your hand.  Is this against any law?  Occasionally you playfully
|>     point it at an old lady and "Pow!  Pow!".  Is this legal?

Not in most places.  Public transportation vehicles can prohibit
toxic substances, weapons, etc. if the controlling authority desires.
I don't know whether threatening anyone is an actionable offense in 
most places, but I suspect it is in many.

-- 
J. Giles
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Harmony Of The Gospels?
Date: 14 Nov 1992 03:59:52 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <roelle.721692970@uars_mag>, roelle@uars_mag.jhuapl.edu (Curtis Roelle) writes:
=lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard) writes:
=>But when one gospel (Matthew) inserts stories like the resurrection of
=>the saints at the time of the crucifixion, who traveled to the cities
=>and made their presence known, this does seem to be analogous to alien
=>spacecraft.  (Especially since this not only is unreported by any other
=>account, it doesn't seem to fit in well with what Matthew himself says.
=>If all these resurrected people were walking around prior to Jesus'
=>resurrection, why the surprise when Jesus himself showed up?)
=
=In this case we might discount Matthew's account of the saints, as the other
=gospels do not support it.  If the gospels are severable, Matthew can still
=be used to corroborate the other three gospels.    

I see.  The witness's testimony has been thoroughly impeached on this point,
yet we're supposed to consider the rest of his testimony to be reliable. 
Sounds to me like you've got such a strong need to believe that you'd believe
damned near anything to avoid having to question your faith.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: akerson@deimos.af.mil (Pete Akerson - akerson%srg@uunet.uucp)
Subject: sizeof( US Population )
Organization: Arinc Research Corp.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 20:27:43 GMT


tuff@ellis.uchicago.edu (Geoff Tuffli) states :

>> The population of the U.S. is well over 300 million people.

I thought the number was more like 270 million. +/- about 3
million 'undocumented' aliens.

Who has the real numbers ?
From: anderson@stsci.edu
Subject: Re: When will K2 grow up?
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 05:33:54 GMT

In article <6039@mccuts.uts.mcc.ac.uk>, zzassgl@uts.mcc.ac.uk (Geoff Lane) writes:
> In article <7788@lib.tmc.edu> draper@odin.mda.uth.tmc.edu (E.J. Draper) writes:
>>
>>What this about K2 being taller?
> 
> It all depends where you are measuring from...mean sea level or distance
> from the nominal centre of the earth.
> 
> At least that's what I've been told.
> -- 
> Geoff. Lane. | Internet: zzassgl@uts.mcc.ac.uk | Janet: zzassgl@uk.ac.mcc.uts
> UTS Sys Admin,  Manchester Computing Centre,  Oxford Rd,  Manchester, M13 9PL
> During a week's TV I want to be entertained, bored, delighted, disgusted, made
> happy, saddened, enlightened, mystified, else they aren't doing the job right.

Sorry Geoff, you've been told wrong.  At least if you are claiming that K2's
peak is the furthest from the center of the Earth of any spot on the Earth.
That prize goes to a high peak in Ecuador, due to the equatorial bulge of the
planet.  (I think it's Chimborazo(?)).

Chris Anderson		Science Operations Specialist
ANDERSON@STSCI.EDU	Science Planning & Scheduling
			Computer Sciences Corporation
			Space Telescope Science Institute
From: kanga.caltech.edu!magney (Michael Agney)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Efficacy of Prayer
Date: 9 Nov 1992 00:15:10 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: itchy.caltech.edu
Originator: magney@itchy

Don't interpret my desire to get back to the original topic as a cop-out.
It isn't.  If you have anything further to say on what we were discussing,
go ahead, and I'll try to respond to it.

--
/---------------------------------------------------------\
| Michael Agney          | "Well, if we were to build a   |
|                        |           giant badger..."     |
|                        |    - Monty Python and the      |
| magney@cco.caltech.edu |      search for the Holy Grail |
\---------------------------------------------------------/
-- 
/---------------------------------------------------------\
| Michael Agney          | "Well, if we were to build a   |
|                        |           giant badger..."     |
|                        |    - Monty Python and the      |
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Plausible Denial (WAS Re: Measurement & Precision)
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:46:28 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.124427.15763@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU> dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott) writes:
>>>Not that I'm in the habit of doing that, but what's wrong with that?
>>>...
>>>What's makes you think your the moral cop?
>>Derek, you are going to have to do better than respond to an article where I
>>point out that some questions need not be answered, with no arguments except
>>for a few questions.
>Neatly side stepped.
>Hey, this guy is not only a moral cop, he's a politician.

If by "sidestepped" you mean I didn't answer your questions, of course I
didn't.  My whole point was that there are questions that don't deserve
answering.  Replying to that with questions is just dumb.
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)