From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: On Orthodox Monopoly
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 03:31:40 GMT

ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
> I will not speak for reform Judaism, but conservative Judaism does
> not reject or make irrelevant the written law.
> 
> What conservative Judaism does is continue to interpret the written
> law, and not freeze it in the distant past.
> 
> Please read some responsa beofre making such claims.
> 
> As examples, some of the more well-known responsa are:
> 
>    - is electricity per se allowed on shabbat (yes - with restrictions)
>    - are women permitted to be counted in a minyan (yes)
>    - is a woman permitted to be a rabbi (yes)
>    - Is commercial wine prepared in the United States treife (no)
> 
> In each case, there is not a contradiction with the written law, and
> the author of the teshuva goes out of his way to meet orthodox
> counterarguments (which, not surprisingly, are still denied by most
> orthodox authorities).

I have a problem here.  With regard to the four responsa examples you
provide, what exactly does the Written Law state?  Where is the concept
of a minyan discussed in the (uninterpreted) Written Law?  What about
the qualifications of a rabbi?  Wines?

It appears that you are implicitly incorporating interpretation and
Oral Law under your concept of the Written Law.  In fact, I could
just as easily have written a responsum stating that eating a McDonald's
cheeseburger is permitted.  First, where does the "written law" say
anything about mixing milk and meat, in general?  Second, where are
the details of shkhita spelled out?

In order to consider your statement non-trivial, we must be ascribing
importance to the Oral Law as well.  If we do this, we're back to the
question of who decides.  What is the purpose of accepting any of the
Oral Law?  Why not just chuck it whenever it's inconvenient?

If we accept the Oral Law generally -- though perhaps not in every
detail -- one would expect that at least its foundations would be
preserved.  Thus, we should at least maintain the idea of precedent,
and when it can be overturned.  Also, certain fundamental principles
provided in the Talmud should also be preserved, or the whole thing
becomes a charade.

I'm not arguing about the particular responsa you cited, just the
overall view of change in Halakha.  Nor do I don't think we should
stick to something for the sake of stubbornness.  But we must take
care to understand the underlying process of legislation in Halakha
before instituting those changes.  Going outside the framework
provided in the law itself in order to effect changes in the law
is nothing short of hypocrisy.

Perhaps the Orthodox are too stubborn in their view of Halakha.  But
if you take the "average" Orthodox Jew (whatever that is), and the
"average" Conservative Jew, which do you think more likely to toe
the line of his/her organization?  I've certainly never conducted
a statistically significant survey, but I would guess that the latter
would probably diverge more from the "normative" path.  (See, I can
present "straw man" arguments too.)

I've know many "Orthodox" Jews who are lax in observance, and
many "Conservative" who are quite rigid, but that has not been the
norm in my anecdotal experience.  Which group will still be around
in 100 years as practicing Jews?  I don't know.  Which has a higher
rate of assimilation and intermarriage?  My (biased) guess would be
members of the Conservative movement, despite their name.

Many great rabbis have developed somewhat shocking views, but their
reputations as great scholars were well established.  This didn't
necessarily prevent their contemporaries from arguing vehemently
against them, but their views have survived nonetheless.  (Of course,
the ones that haven't I can't discuss :-)  When we view Halakha from
our perspective, we may lose sight of some of these details, thinking
instead that it is unchanging.  Look more closely and you'll see
otherwise.  But you should also consider the pressures from both
sides.

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish