HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com
Subject: Re: RFD: Removal of Unused Newsgroups
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 21:14:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.172322.21984@ennews.eas.asu.edu>, sridhar@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Sridhar Venkataraman) writes...
>john@iastate.edu (John Hascall)
>writes on news.groups:

>)The trn newsreader updates the .newsrc lines for all groups listed in
>)the Newsgroups: header line (including ones you are not subscribed to).
>)This tends to produce very big .newsrc file (and we have ~5000 netnews
>)readers!).  I hacked together a program (below) which mungs lines of the 
>)form:

>Why would you want to keep foo.bar.baz in your .newsrc at all? Won't a
>vi-style ":g/!/d" do a better job? 

If I do that the newsreaders I use (both of them) ask if I wish to subscribe
to all the missing groups the next time I fire them up, and they wind up right
back in the .newsrc file.  This feature is necessary if I don't want to miss
any new groups.

-Mike
From: grohol@novavax.UUCP (John Grohol)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re^2: RFD: rec.arts.sf.tv.blakes7
Date: 8 Sep 92 16:38:07 GMT
Organization: Nova University, Fort Lauderdale, FL

jenkinsj@blowfish.taligent.com (John H. Jenkins) writes:

>Good idea IMHO.  There are a number of B7 threads going on in rec.arts.sf.tv right now.  It's easy to find them (they're the ones with "B7" in the subject line).  Typically, there is so little posting going on about B7 that a newsgroup of its own does seem a bit excessive (say I as a B7 fan myself).  

I disagree. I believe that there is a lot of discussion going on about
B7, it's just that it is spread out over a number of newsgroups and
not always crossposted. I further believe that given it's own group
under the rec.arts.tv.sf hierarchy, it will then pull together all the
smaller discussions and allow for a comprehensive area in which to find
B7 talked about in depth.  The current mish-mash of B7 being found
on everything from rec.arts.tv.uk to whatever makes a B7 newsgroup
necessary.

-John

-- 
  John M. Grohol, M.S.    grohol@novavax.nova.edu     Nova University
--::--::--::--::--::--::--  the indigo girls:  --::--::--::--::--::--::--
   "Dark and dangerous like a secret that gets whispered in a hush,
    When I wake the things I dreamt about you last night make me blush."
From: shell@gandalf.Berkeley.EDU (Shelly Culbertson)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Moderated newsgroups
Date: 14 Sep 92 01:16:37 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, U. C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: gandalf.berkeley.edu

> In article <drs-5!A@engin.umich.edu>, rcj@engin.umich.edu (Rod Johnson)
> wrote:

>> In article <1907o7INNrp2@agate.berkeley.edu> shell@gandalf.Berkeley.EDU 
>> (Shelly Culbertson) writes:

>> Could someone tell me please what the process would be for a newsgroup
>> to change from being unmoderated to being moderated, if the participants
>> of the group wished to do so?

> No doubt this is about poor violated rec.music.phish, which managed to
> catch part of a cross-posted flame war.  You had exactly the sort of
> control you wanted when you had a mailing list, and you chose to give
> that up and join the hurlyburly of Usenet, Shelly.  It's the nature of
> things that the more open structure of the net is more vulnerable to
> "attacks" by people who don't share your vision of the group.  But is
> it really such a trauma?  Are your sensibilities really that fragile?
> How about just being less of a crybaby, learning how to not read
> articles you don't like, accepting this as the unpleasant aberration
> it is and getting over it?  There's no excuse for the recent
> flamebait, but enforcing groupthink isn't a good answer.
>
>       Rod Johnson  *  rcj@caen.engin.umich.edu  *  (313) 764-3103
    
I asked a simple, straightforward question.  Rod's annoying, insinuating
reply made no attempt whatsoever to answer the question that I asked.  I
posted to this group for some basic information that should be available
to users of Usenet, not to take part in an argument with Rod for which I
have neither the energy nor the inclination.

If someone would be kind enough to post or mail me a response to my
original question, I would appreciate it very much.

Shelly
Newsgroups: news.groups,well.general
From: support@well.sf.ca.us (WELL Support Staff)
Subject: Forged postings that used the WELL's name and user Hugo Gonzalez
Keywords: forged posting, spoofed, security, cracked, racist
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 20:52:20 GMT

Hi folks, this is Matisse Enzer at the WELL is Sausalito, California.
This message has also bee posted to misc.forsale,
misc.forsale.computers, ca.driving, alt.binaries.pictures, misc.kids,
rec.music.gdead, rec.music.phish, and rec.music.misc  (sigh)


The (hugoglez) account has been suspended by the WELL's management.

Recently, this account was cracked due to having a weak password.
Some rather offensive postings were made using the account in a
variety of nrewsgroups (mostly music related).(This was all around
Sept. 6-8, 1992)

We (WELL managment) restricted the account at that time and spoke with
Hugo Gonzalez, the real owner of the (hugoglez) account.  We are
satisfied that Mr. Gonzalez did NOT make the offennsive postings, and
furthermore has probably never used USENET in his life.  We changed
the password and reopened the account. We also posted an apology to
all the newsgroups that we knew had received the racist postings.
(This was on Sept. 9 I think)

Then, today, we learned that someone is continuing to make postings to
various groups (ca.driving is one we know of right now) in such a way
to make it look like the posting were made by (hugoglez@well.sf.ca.us)
- which is NOT TRUE.  The (hugoglez) account has had no logins from
Sept. 8 until this today (Sept. 13), and this will be it's last login ever
- I have logged into it to create this message  and set up the vacation
program to send this message automatically to people who send mail to
(hugoglez@well.sf.ca.us).

We are going to offer Mr. Gonzalez a new account on the WELL, with a
different username.

As you might imagine, the (hugoglez) accounts' mailbox is rather full
(93 message as I write this :-).  We will be sending a version of this
message to everyone who sent mail to (hugoglez) about the USENET
postings.

If anyone would like to discuss this matter with us on the telephone
the WELL can be reached at 415-332-4335, Monday-Friday, 9-5 Pacific
time.

We appreciate how much of a pain all this is, and we hope it all calms
down sooner than later.

		-Matisse Enzer
		 WELL Customer Support Manager
From: fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: Removal of Unused Newsgroups
Date: 4 Sep 1992 21:41:32 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I still like the suggestion a while back that 
 really severely unused groups be automatically
 rmgrouped.  I'm talking about groups that
 have no (zero) posts for several months in a
 row (~3 to 12 months).  

As a safety feature, a message could go to 
 news.groups (or somewhere) at the beginning
 of the last month saying "talk.foo.bar will
 be rmgrouped at the end of the month".  If
 someone feels an absolute dire need to save
 it, they have time to post.

On the other hand, there are probably enough
 kooks out there who'll send autoreplies to
 the endangered groups + save them.  

Hurm.  But I still think automating it rather
 than having full human voting would be good.
-- 
Francis A. Uy			now a Bawlmorean, hon.
Program Director, WUMD		ISO part time job to pay the rent.
From: bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Why Alok Insists Everyone but himself is Immoral
Date: 15 Sep 92 01:38:25 GMT
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.

alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:

>In other words, it is okay for the vote taker to appeal to people
>to vote YES only or abstain, and then issue a CFV and start collecting votes.

>Did I get it right ?

>Alok

  I think what's happening is that Alok simply likes to look at his
own 'prose'.  It's good for his ego and self-respect. Play along, folks.
I'll be the first to admit this 'discussion' has gone on far too long, 
but if Alok's ego requires that we fight him, we can tolerate it.
Perhaps we should have a RFD:"soc.alok.alok.alok" or "soc.alok.knows.best".
Or wait, NBC beat me to that one; check the new fall lineup.

-- 
 Jawaid Bazyar              |   Ask me about the GNO Multitasking Environment
 Procyon, Inc.              |   for the Apple IIgs!   
 bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu         |   P.O Box 620334
 --Apple II Forever!--      |   Littleton, CO 80162-0334   (303) 933-4649
From: dseal@armltd.co.uk (David Seal)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Improprieties (soc.culture.tamil ...
Date: 14 Sep 92 12:13:13 GMT
Distribution: news
Organization: A.R.M. Ltd, Swaffham Bulbeck, Cambs, UK

In article <1992Sep11.152305.13248@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:

>In article <6494@armltd.uucp>, dseal@armltd.co.uk (David Seal) writes:
>
>> And, so far as I am aware, you have only presented evidence that he [the
>> s.c.t votetaker] did so [canvassed] before the start of the voting period,
>> when it was quite legitimate for him to do so. 
>
>Legitimate perhaps ( I mean guidelines wise), but certainly improper.

In your opinion - I don't believe it to be improper at all. The only way in
which the vote-taker differs from the rest of the population is that he or
she has access to votes as they come in. (NB I'm making no statement about
whether the vote-taker has actually read them - just that he or she *can* do
so.) So before the start of the voting period, there is no difference,
because there are no partial vote results; after the start, the vote-taker
is banned from campaigning or communicating information about the votes.

It's certainly arguable that vote-takers should be neutral, and that no
campaigning should occur during the voting period. But it's a fact of life
that most vote-takers are proponents of the group concerned, and it is
generally accepted that this is OK as long as they stick to the rules about
the voting period itself. And banning all campaigning during the voting
period without handing opponents a ready-made weapon to disrupt any vote
looks to me like an impossibility.

>> If you have evidence that he (rather than his friends) made such
>> comments during the voting period (rather than before or after it), please
>> make it public. Otherwise, you don't have a case.
>
>I have not been able to procure the requested evidence as I do not have access
>to emails/calls etc from and to him.

If you don't have the evidence, you don't have a case. Sorry, but that's
life... Moreover, if I were you, I would stop alleging something I couldn't
prove; while I doubt it's likely to happen in this case, such behaviour
*can* get one into legal trouble.

>Now, don't you think the vote taker comments before the vote were improper.
>Or to be more specific, wasn't it inappropriate for him to select himself
>as the vote taker after making such comments ?
>
>Furthermore wasn't it inappropriate for his co-organizers to do 'canvassing'
>of votes during the vote using similar lines ?
>
>Now once again this may be legitimate (guidelines wise), but to me
>it seems improper behaviour.
>
>Are such improper behaviours on part of the vote taker and co-organizers
>not sufficient to ask for a revote ?
>
>Especially the selection of the vote taker was wrong, IMHO.
>
>Are there any guidelines on vote taker selection which were violated ?

Answering the questions in order: no, no, no, no. I've given the reasons
above.

David Seal
dseal@armltd.co.uk

All opinions are mine only...
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.rpg.board
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:08:45 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <BuL4M4.GoF@uunet.uu.net> lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
>Request for new group: rec.games.rpg.board
>
While I agree that rec.rpg.board is, in isolation, a more reasonable name,
I feel that it would be less confusing to most folks reading news if this
group were to be fitted into the existing rec.games.frp.* hieararchy.
As such, I suggest the group be titled rec.frp.board
-- 
John Francis                                johnf@apollo.hp.com
Seen passing on the net:  Spotted Owl - the *other* white meat!
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: aefron@cornerstone.com (Andrew Efron)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.autos.antique
Followup-To: news.groups
Reply-To: aefron@cornerstone.com (Andrew Efron)
Organization: Cornerstone Research, Cambridge, Mass.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 01:07:48 GMT


With respect to the "original vs. hot rod" question, I think there's a big 
difference between someone wanting to know the best replacement part when the 
original's not available, vs. wanting info on the hottest performance setup 
or how to create a fake Boss 429.  Nobody can help it if they can't 
find/afford an original component, and these people shouldn't be excluded.  
But if the poster's intention is to lessen the originality of the car, take 
the discussion elsewhere.

In any case, here's a solid vote for rec.autos.antique.  The charter is great 
the way it is, IMHO.

Andy


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I didn't do it to make history.  You do something that you want to 
do or feel you have to do, because you like it and love it.  And if 
it turns out to be history, well, so what?"

			--Carroll Shelby, from "The Cobra-Ferrari Wars, 1963-1965"


Newsgroups: news.groups
From: pvmason@cco.caltech.edu (Peter V. Mason)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.autos.antique
Summary: Vote for rec.autos.antique
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:51:42 GMT

In article <Bu7tHM.9AF@uunet.uu.net> lisbon@vpnet.chi.il.us (Gerry Swetsky) writes:
>Some months ago, I created alt.autos.antique.  There seems to have been
>sufficient traffic in that newsgroup to justify a discussion and vote
>on the creation of rec.autos.antique.
>
>    This is a formal RFD or Request for Discussion.
>============================================================================
>| Help stamp out stupid .signature files!           Gerry Swetsky  WB9EBO  |
>|                 vpnet - Public access Unix and Usenet                    |
>| Home (708)833-8122       vpnet (708)833-8126      lisbon@vpnet.chi.il.us |

This is a vote for the establishment of the group rec.autos.antiques.
I suggest that the topics be kept broad for a while, then a subgroup 
be established if there are too many postings. 
Peter Mason
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: andy@homebase.vistachrome.com (Andy Finkenstadt)
Subject: Re: RFD: news.software.inn
Keywords: INN
Reply-To: andy@homebase.vistachrome.com
Organization: Vista-Chrome Incorporated
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 18:05:14 GMT

kent@imd.sterling.com (Kent Landfield) writes:
>NAME:    
>	news.software.inn

I would propose a different name:
	news.software.transport.inn

And also propose
	news.software.transport.[b|c|bc]
	news.software.transport.nntp
	news.software.transport.nntplink
	news.software.transport.misc
	news.software.readers.nn
and so on.

>STATUS: 
>	unmoderated

And I can see instant problems with my categorization of this -
C news does two things: transport and organization.  C-news and
nntp are not mutually exclusive.  nntp and inn might be redundant
on the nntp side, but can work together with special
flags under inn.


-- 
Andrew Finkenstadt       | Vista-Chrome, Inc.   |           andy@GEnie
GEnie Unix Sysop/Manager | The Printing House   |    NIC Handle: AF136
+1 904 222 2639 home     | 1600 Capital Cir SW  |   ...!uunet!rde!andy
+1 904 575 0189 work     | Tallahassee FL 32310 | andy@vistachrome.com

     The game of love is never called off on account of darkness.
From: frankc@faatcrl.UUCP (Frank Coffman)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.music.makers.* groups
Date: 10 Sep 92 01:52:16 GMT
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Atlantic City NJ

mrk@gvgspd.GVG.TEK.COM (Michael R. Kesti) writes:

>The thing I just don't understand is what we are trying to fix with all
>these variations and proposals.  I honestly don't see that there is much,
>if anything, to be fixed in the musicians' groups, but perhaps if those
>who do could state the problem(s) to be solved, the solutions might become
>more obvious.  From my point of view, however, it looks like most of the
>proponents of this restructuring want to change things for the sake of
>changing them.  Please enlighten me.

If one thing deserves to be changed, there should be a rec.music.guitar
(or rec.musician.guitar or rec.music.musician.guitar or whatever)
due to the high volume of traffic in alt.guitar not reaching those
sites that get rec.* but not alt.*.


-- 
*********************************************************************
* Frank Coffman     Computer Resource Management, Inc. (CRM)        *
*                   NAS Sim. Support Facility, FAA Technical Center *
*                   Atlantic City Airport, NJ 08405                 *
* UUCP:  ...!rutgers!faatcrl!frankc  Internet:frankc@faatcrl.UUCP   *
*********************************************************************
From: latta@scam.berkeley.edu (Craig R. Latta)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.music.makers.* groups
Date: 8 Sep 92 14:31:09
Organization: Experimental Computing Facility (XCF)
NNTP-Posting-Host: xcf.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: jonathan@mantis.co.uk's message of 6 Sep 92 17:04:00 GMT



	Jonathan Egre' (jonathan@mantis.co.uk) writes:

>    latta@scam.berkeley.edu (Craig R. Latta) writes:
> 
>    > 	In general, I think newsgroups are better grouped by subject
>    > matter, not by categorizing the participants. One of the greatest
>    > things about USENET is that it allows very different people to
>    > associate via their *interests*. So the "rec.musician" groupname
>    > element turns me off, and it also conflicts with the
>    > "rec.music.makers" (by duplicating "music-").
> 
>    Are you trying to say that the word "musician" would imply a newsgroup 
>    strictly for professional musicians?  I don't see it as any more elitist
>    than "music.makers". 
> 
>    I'm certainly not a professional musician, but I would not even have
>    *suspected* that postings concerning my hobby of playing the guitar would
>    be unwelcome in "rec.musicians.guitar".  Amateur musicians and beginners
>    are still "musicians" in my view.

	Of course. I was complaining about renaming, for example,
rec.music.classical to rec.musicians.classical. Some people are
listeners and not musicians.


-C

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Craig R. Latta           Experimental Computing Facility                (XCF)
Composer, Software and   ParcPlace Systems, Inc.        (latta@parcplace.com)
    Recording Engineer   NetJam, Berkeley                (netjam-request@xcf)
latta@xcf.Berkeley.EDU   Smallmusic OO music project (smallmusic-request@xcf)
(standard  disclaimer)   proof NL parsing project         (proof-request@xcf)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.rpg.board
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 00:19:07 GMT

There is no rec.games.rpg hierarchy; this should probably fall under
rec.games.frp.  (We've already got one outlier, we don't need another)
--
Christopher Davis   | ]CALL -151       
<ckd@eff.org>       | *300: 20 DD FB 60
System Administrator| *3D0G            
EFF +1 617 864 0665 | ]CALL 768
From: jym@mica.berkeley.edu (Jym Dyer)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: talk.boycotts.calls moderated, talk.boycotts.misc
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:46:09
Organization: The Naughty Peahen Party Line
	<1992Sep9.154252.1830@nntp.hut.fi>
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: jkp@cs.HUT.FI's message of 9 Sep 92 15:42:52 GMT

=o= I think the "calls" newsgroup could well fit into the misc
hierarchy, much as misc.activism.progressive does.  Like m.a.p,
it would simply be a source of information that one could get
to without wading through all kinds of discussion.

=o= Of course there *should* be a place for discussion, which
is why I support a talk.boycotts.misc newsgroup.  (But perhaps
it could be called talk.boycotts.d?)

=o= Moderation of the "calls" newsgroup should, by default,
set followups to the appropriate forum, which would of course
be the discussion newsgroup.  This is what m.a.p does (the
default followup newsgroup is alt.activism.d).  Posters can
of course set followups to a different newsgroup if they feel
that newsgroup is more appropriate.
    <_Jym_>
--
My friends, we can and we will, never, never surrender to what is
 right.
                -- Vice President Dan Quayle, speaking to Pat
                   Robertson's Christian Coalition.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: RESULT: talk.politics new groups all fail
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 00:51:23 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.195126.2127@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> herbison@erlang.enet.dec.com writes:

>I don't read t.p.* and I would much rather see one large vote then
>ten or twenty separate votes.  One vote means less traffic in
>news.groups and one vote takes much less time to submit than ten
>separate votes.

That's exactly the problem Lazlo and I had -- you have to come up with
forty seperate decisions on how you feel about a particular group even
if you're inclined to vote.  I read talk.politics.misc, but I just
don't feel the reorganization bug that seems to hit Jyrki every so
often.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "I don't know how much support NAMBLA
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /  has in the gay community."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Clayton Cramer, August 1992
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu (David Wald)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: talk.boycotts.calls moderated, talk.boycotts.misc
Date: 9 Sep 92 16:24:33 GMT
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT

In article <1992Sep9.140647.8068@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>The only reason I can see for anyone voting for talk.boycotts.calls
>is if they really expect to read it but not talk.boycotts.misc. Given
>the one-sidedness inherent in a boycott call, I hope that there will
>not be too many such readers.

I would expect---let me make that ``hope''---that people would use
*.boycotts.calls much as they now use news.announce.newgroups: as a
way to quickly check for boycotts of interest to them, which they can
then discuss in *.boycotts.misc.  That said, it's not clear to me that
a "CFB:" convention in *.boycotts.misc wouldn't serve the same purpose
in this case.

Also, speaking as one who hasn't followed the too closely, I'm
wondering if misc.consumers.boycotts[.*] was proposed?  Also, what's
the status of discussion on misc.activism.boycotts[.*]?

-David
--
============================================================================
David Wald                                           wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu
   "Blessed are the peacocks, for they shall be called sonship of God"
             -- Matt 5:9, from a faulty QuickVerse 2.0
============================================================================
Newsgroups: news.groups