HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: blee@digi.lonestar.org (Benjamin W. Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.rights.human
Subject: Re: Chinese-cu Cannabalism (Re: Why are we different?)
Date: 8 Jan 93 19:29:19 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications, Plano Tx.

To those who are interested in this topic and who are Chinese generation,
there are plenty of books describe the detailing of the Culture Revolution.

Even though Communism is imported, the Chinese communist brought it to
further extremes in several respect. It's very sad to see many factors
running together at the wrong time:

1. Communism came from Russia.
2. China was weak from the last days of Chin Dynasty and the revolution.
3. China was behind in educating her people and developing technologies.
4. The WWII intervent greatly during the whole course of upheaving.
5. The world led by US of A wasn't truly understood what is Communism and
	the people who was practicing it.

Since Taiwan is/was on this propaganda promoting against Communism, we
had a lot information about what had happened during Culture Revolution.

It makes me feel sad when comparing what happened to Samolia now and
China some 40-50 years ago. The whole world is just so much different
now!

People who are interested, should read/study the recent history of
China before futher comment/understanding could point to a not-so-biased
opinion. It is very difficult in my opinion to make an in-depth conclusion
since the whole history book is so much more complicated than many others.

Personally, I believe Mao single handly created the whole mess for his
personal gain/survival. It would be difficult for people to shatter the
idol sometimes. Eventually, Mao would stand evil in the history book,
I'll say, when truth are better understood.

In article wenz@ucs.orst.edu (Wen Zongyao) writes:
>In article underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>Well, I will back up 1 claim:  Chinese-cu atrocities have been at least
>>.....
>
>Why not post references? 
>
>>Chinese-cu volunteered to participate in cannabalism and were not forced
>>by their gov't to do so.
>
>>Chinese records add cannibalism to 1960s horrors
>>By Nicholas D. Kristof, New York Times
>>
>>San Jose Mercury News, January 6, 1993, pages 1A and 5A
>>
>>Beijing--Newly disclosed confidential government documents show that China's
>>Cultural Revolution plumbed previously unreported depths of savagery.
>>.......
>[quoted document deleted]
>
>This is quite a shock to me.  I have never heard about this before.
>I thank Dwight give me some new knowledge about the Culture Revolution, 
>and it's ashame to know that some Chinese really did this.  
>However, this is not a good evidence to show Chinese culture is a brutle
>culture.  If a few criminal can represent a culture, then no culture 
>would be acceptable.  
>
>The reason why there aren't many Chinese-cu talk about this is that few
>people know it.  How could you expect someone say things they don't even
>know?  
>
>Wen
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Date: Fri,  8 Jan 1993 05:30:52 -0500 
From: Rikiya Asano <ra01+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: japan bashing, was RISING SUN
Distribution: usa

Mr. John Park Writes:

.

>I think discussing Japan is very relevant, since the spin doctors
>in the news media have proclaimed(!), a few months ago that this
>country is in an economic "war" with Japan.

It is interestingly accurate how you put this. America was at "economic
war" with Nippon. Not Nippon at all.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: roten@cuba.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Roten)
Subject: Re: Why are we different?
Organization: /cuba_b/dirbe/roten/.organization
X-Newsreader: GNU Emacs 18.59.1, GNUS 3.13, NNTP 3.10
	<1i844cINN5l1@agate.berkeley.edu> <1993Jan4.145611.8411@nynexst.com>
	<43022@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:43:42 GMT

In article <43022@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> mcovingt@sdcc13.ucsd.edu 
(Maiko Covington) writes:

>>  Sure does.  I suppose you didn't have any sports events, dances,
>>  clubs, and ski trips at your school.  Then you wonder why people
>>  raised in Asian School systems can't get dates!

>Hey, wait a minute.. at my school (Japanese schools) we had LOTS of
>sporting events. We had a ski trip. We have a week long "school
>trip" for graduating class. We have a yearly "sports day".. we havea
>yearly "culture festival" where each class in the school turns their
>classroom into a store, a restaurant, or puts on a show... then the
>school is open to the public, we sell  tickets, and generally goof
>around and have LOTS of fun. We have sports teams. We go on field
>trips to the movies and the theater. Yes, school is hard work, but
>we also DO have extracurricular activities and fun.
>	   And... I CAN get dates. ^_^
>		   Maiko Covington

Maiko's point supports one of the contentions of the Scientific 
American article I posted about .. namely, that _more_, rather than 
less, time was reserved for socialization (in the positive sense of 
the word) in Asian schools, at least in the lower grades.  This helps 
the kids to see school in a more positive light than American kids 
usually do.  

Fewer contact hours and lighter teacher workloads, at least at the 
elementary level also help .. a stategy too-commonly used by American 
teachers to deal with stacks of papers to grade is to assign the kids work 
of a sort that keeps them in their chairs.  Then the teacher can lessen 
the height of his or her stack of ungraded papers.  This works out well 
for the teacher, but lowers the morale of the kids.  

--
Charles Roten | Hughes-STX, Incorporated | 
  roten@cuba.gsfc.nasa.gov               | 'Use the Source, Luke!'
  7601 Ora-Glen Dr., Greenbelt, MD 20706 | 
  301-513-7805 (w),  301-317-0872 (h)    |            Obi-Wan Stallman
From: vidynath@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K Rao)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: FAQ for soc.culture.asian.american
Date: 4 Jan 1993 19:45:15 -0500
Organization: Me? Organized?
NNTP-Posting-Host: function.mps.ohio-state.edu

In article <1993Jan4.215729.21401@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
|In article <1993Jan3.143900.22289@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> webihara@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Wataru Ebihara) writes:
|>You might want to include more Asian ethnic groups just to make
|>people more aware of the diversity of Asian Americans.  Also,
|>I'm not sure if Pakistan is included in the defintion used in the
|>U.S..  Does anyone know?  Also, the grouping is sometimes "Asian
|>and Pacific Islander" American.
|
|From the US Comission on Civil Rights report "Civil Rights Issues
|Facing Asian Americans in the 1990s", Feb 1992, p. 1, footnote 4:
|	Asian American groups considered in this report are persons
|	having origins in the Far East, Southeast Asia, and the Indian
|	subcontinent.  At times, the report also includes information
|	about Pacific Islanders, but limited resources precluded a
|	systematic investigation of the civil rights issues facing
|	Pacific Islanders.

I have always been confused about afghanis. The Afghanistan-Pakistan border
divides several ethnic groups into two nationalities. Histories upto
5th century always include modern-day Afghanistan in South Asia. But
currently many Afghanis (and may be even some Pakistanis) prefer to
consider them as part of the "middle east".

It is beginning to sound like a discussion of rounding rules!

|>"Asian Americans are citizens or permanent residents of the
|>United States (or North America, including Canada?) who have at
|>least one parent of Asian decent.  Asians are a diverse group of
|>Asian nationalities that include -- Chinese, Japanese, Korean,
|>Indian, Filipino, Indonesian, Malaysian, Cambodian, Vietnamese,
|>Singaporian, Thai, Laotian, and others."

I would prefere to say "any one with an asian ancestor (within the last n
years, perhaps) who identifies self as an asian-american". 

This is another of those problems that come up when you try to define a
racial group. Asian-americans are too diverse racially. It should be
considered an ethnic group. What matters is if one identifies with the
ethnic group. Someone who is say 1/8 asian but considers himself/herself
as asian-american should be counted as one. A full-blooded asian who wants
to deny it should not count. That is my opinion anyway.

-- 
Vidhyanath Rao			It is the man, not the method, that solves
nathrao+@osu.edu		the problem. - Henri Poincare
(614)-366-9341			[as paraphrased by E. T. Bell]
From: ee52fbc@sdcc15.ucsd.edu (Maiko Covington)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Why are we different?
Date: 10 Jan 93 04:44:11 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1993Jan9.205244.17501@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

>Any statistics that you see about Chinese-cu students being top-notch should
>be ignored as meaningless.  What those statistics (including the ones in 
>Scientific American) say is that the _top_ _5%_ of Chinese-cu students is
>better than the _average_ American student.
 
>On the contrary, what statistics about Korean-cu students and Japanese-cu
>students say is that the _average_ Korean-cu student and Japanese-cu student
>is better at science and math than the _average_ American-cu student.  That's
>a meaningful analysis, compared to the one in the above paragraph.

Hmmm. Actually though, there is a similar misconception when they
are comparing the school results of Japanese and American high
school students. In Japan, high school isn't technically required
education (although something like over 90% go I think). This means
that education from 10th grade on works rather like American
universities - EVERY school has an entrance exam, and you pay for
all of them. So, the public high schools are like US public
universities - there is a set standard, and if you don't make it you
will go to a private school with less standards (there are private
schools with higher standards too).
	As a result, the comparisons of "public high school
students" are in effect comparing a select group of Japanese hand
picked to meet a certain standard, against American students, where
EVERYONE, including students with learning disabilites etc, are
averaged in. 
	However, comparisons with children up to 9th grade DO
include all Japanese students. I agree that Japan tries to educate
everyone, and IMHO they do a quite good job of it. 
	I think Japan would be better off making high school
required so that public high schools would not have the horrible
entrance examinations. I think Korea has this system.

	Maiko Covington

P.S. As far as the "facts vs. critical thinking" debate goes, I
think we need some of both. What good is all the wonderful
theorizing without basic factual knowledge of the world and its
history to base it on?

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: lam@popeye.comm.mot.com (Dan Lam)
Subject: Re: Media Stereotypes: The Solution
Organization: Land Mobile Products Sector, Motorola INC.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:59:45 GMT

In article <9301070808.AA00541@dawn400a.hpl.hp.com> rw@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Russil Wvong) writes:
>George Wu writes:
>>     I think it'll be a cold day in Hell before you see an AA star in the lead
>>role of a mainstream American movie.

I recalled there is someone named Jackie Chan starred is a mainstream
American movie called "The big brawl".  I saw it and did not like it
much.  It has been a while so not sure if the movie made big $.

>All you need is a really charismatic Asian-American actor, who can generate
>a believable aura of violence and yet be appealing at the same time --
>somebody like Chow Yun Fat (star of The Killer, A Better Tomorrow, and
>about a million other HK movies) -- and you're in business.  I'd be really
>surprised if a movie like this didn't show up some time soon. 

Well last year the Art Institute of Chicago sponsored a series of films
starring Chow Yun Fat.  I donot remember any of the movies titles since I
have never seen any of them.  However I remember the actor's name
because the film series was advertised in this local artsy paper with a
large picture of him which certainly caught every reader's eye ---
especially with "Fat" as his name.  He must be a quality actor to be
sponsorred by such a fine institute.

>Of course, you're probably not going to see an Asian-American star in a
>serious drama like Out of Africa anytime soon.  But nobody watches those
>movies anyway. :-)
>-- Russil

Agree.  How about that little AA kid in the Indiana Jones movie?  Does
anyone know if he is still in the movie business?

dan
From: hassan@cup.portal.com (hassan monu alam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: FAQ
Date: Fri,  8 Jan 93 17:52:21 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

The South Asian group includes Bangladesh, Sri-Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan,
and the Maldives. The Fijis and Guyana are also close to 50% S. Asian.

The reason few S. Asians participate in "Asian-American" issues,
is because "Asian-American" means "East-Asian-American" in the
USofA. Despite some shared religion (Buddhism, Hinduism (with
Indonesia), and Islam (with Malaysia & Indonesia)) East-Asians
and South-Asians have little in common.

Hassan
From: rw@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Russil Wvong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: East and South Asians
Date: 10 Jan 1993 08:09:14 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

After reading Alan's article on similarities between the East Asian
and South Asian communities in America, I came up with a list of
differences.  (I don't know much about the South Asian community,
so the list is pretty superficial, and may well be inaccurate.)

Appearance.  Obviously, we don't look the same.  Both East Asians
and South Asians experience racism from non-Asian Americans, but the
nature of the racism is somewhat different.

History.  Historically, there's been a lot of contact between America
and East Asia:  China, Japan, the Philippines, Korea, Vietnam.  More so
than with South Asia.

International politics.  Japan (and by extension all of East Asia) is seen
by Americans as an economic threat, an advanced, high tech society.  Crowded
but disciplined, like a giant anthill.  India (and by extension all of South
Asia) is seen as a poor, third world society.

Visibility in popular culture.  Chinese and Japanese actors appear in
American movies and on American TV, at least in supporting roles.  South
Asians are practically invisible in popular American culture.  How many 
South Asians can you think of, besides Gandhi and Salman Rushdie?

Language skills.  This is a gross generalization, but I think South Asian
immigrants are generally much more comfortable with English, and generally
have better verbal skills, than East Asian immigrants.  (This is something
that Norman Matloff at UC Davis used to comment on.)

Generation gap.  There's a big cultural gap between Chinese immigrants
and their kids.  I have the impression that it's the same for other
East Asian immigrants, but less so for South Asian immigrants.

Names.  American-born Chinese kids almost always use American first names
(although sometimes they're a little unusual).  I think the same is mostly
true for other East Asians, whereas South Asian kids almost always have
traditional first names.

Religion.  I have the impression that East Asians don't take religion
very seriously (except for the substantial number of Christians), whereas
South Asians do.

Actually, the specific differences probably aren't so important.  What's
important is that there doesn't seem to be much interaction at all between
South Asians and East Asians; they really do seem to be separate communities.

-- Russil
From: ra01+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rikiya Asano)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: anonymous accounts
Date: 10 Jan 93 01:20:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.sfI0No600UhW80xPop
	<AfHKAxe00Uh_80wfYI@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<MDAY.93Jan9015717@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Mr, MDay writes:

.

> 
>As long as we're making up non-existent crimes to charge people with,
>how about if I send a "strong letter" to the FBI pointing out your
>attempt to practice law without a license?  You might get a long
>sentence, since lawyers don't like people dispensing legal advice who
>can't even distinguish between anonymity (usually legal) and fraud
>(usually illegal).  However, they may well decline to prosecute since
>your letters are probably a continuing source of amusement for them.

       Obviously, your above statement is a direct reflection of your
lack of intelligence. To practising law requires that you be a lawyer.
I'm not. Also, to "practise" law in the legal sense means the trade of
good(money usually) or services(in this case advise). Since there was no
business conducted. It was and is not illegal to give someone advise.
Whether that advice is legal, commercial or whatever. When giving advise
is against the law is when it involves...well I don't have to really get
into that. Go idiot! Call the FBI on me. They'll
laugh at you and report you to the IRS to push your audit date closer(or
to put you on the list).


>It's interesting (and somewhat depressing) that many people want some
>kind of Mr. Authority Figure to come in and save them from the "bad"
>people on the net who say things that are "offensive".

Fuck you! This that offensive enough for you!
From: edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Why are we different?
Date: 4 Jan 93 15:46:59 GMT
Organization: RAND

In article <2583@usna.NAVY.MIL> wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.MIL (Wm. Douglas Withers -- math  FACULTY <wdw@sma.usna.navy.mil>) writes:
>All this is wandering rather far from the original claim of the Scientific
>American article, which is (surprisingly) that school in Asia is more fun
>than in the USA.

Indeed.  But in Japan things get much more grim in the juku (cram schools).
And almost anyone who wants to do well on the exams goes to juku, so it
is a bit misleading to give all the credit to the public schools.  But I
suspect that a lot of people's impressions of the latter are grossly
outdated or based selected examples.

One other myth is the prevalence of adolescent suicide, which is almost
as much a problem in the US as it is in Japan.  We just don't have "exam
hell" to blame it on.

		-Ed Hall
		edhall@rand.org
From: hassan@cup.portal.com (hassan monu alam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: East and South Asians
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 18:49:19 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <9301101408.AA19177@dawn400a.hpl.hp.com>

>Religion.  I have the impression that East Asians don't take religion
>very seriously (except for the substantial number of Christians), whereas
>South Asians do.

I have Buddhist friends from Thailand, Vietnam, and Japan whom I respect,
and know many devout Muslims from Malaysia and Indonesia. Your sweeping
generalization doesnt do justice to these people.


>-- Russil

Hassan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Re: FAQ
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 01:33:50 GMT

In article <9301100042.AA16598@dawn400a.hpl.hp.com> rw@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Russil Wvong) writes:
>Alan Hu writes:
>>hassan monu alam writes:
>>>The reason few S. Asians participate in "Asian-American" issues,
>>>is because "Asian-American" means "East-Asian-American" in the
>>>USofA.
>>
>>Why do people keep insisting this?  As long as everyone insists that:
>>	South Asian Americans aren't Asian Americans
>>	Asian Americans are really Orientals
>>	Orientals are those people who look like Japs and Chinks and Gooks
>>we're not going to make any progress.  All of this racial terminology
>>is pretty out-of-date to start with.  (I mean, "the Orient" used to
>>mean the Middle East, aka Western Asia.)  Why quibble on obsolete
>>semantic nitpicks?  Why accept an obsolete notion that excludes, when
>>there is a more current notion that includes?
>
>Agreed, but I think Hassan's statement is basically correct.  In theory,
>"Asian-American" includes South Asians, but in practice, it often doesn't.
>Basically, the term has been taken over by East Asians, because we don't
>want to call ourselves "Orientals" any more. :-)

Agreed.  I guess I'm coming from a perspective that says South-Asian
Americans share a great deal with East-Asian Americans, hence I believe
in a common term.  Perhaps, as Mark and Dwight have pointed out,
"Asian American" isn't the right word, but its usage in that capacity
seems reasonable and is gaining acceptance.  But as long as people
insist that "Asian American" excludes South-Asian Americans, it
will exclude; as soon as people agree that "Asian American" includes
South-Asian Americans, it will include.

>
	[Good stuff calling for interaction and communication between
	 the two communities deleted.]
	[Guesses about South Asian culture deleted.]
>
>Don't forget the interracial dating issue, either. :-)
>
>--Russil

Don't worry, it's my favorite whine!  :-)  Seriously, seems to
me that similar gender-based stereotypes plague South Asians as
East Asians:  that the men are sexist and domineering, and that
the women are docile and subservient.  Consider the quote from
the Stanford Daily article I posted, wherein and Indian-American
woman said she refused to date Indian-American men because she
perceived them to all be sexist, chauvinist pigs.  Funny, I could've
sworn I've heard that kind of labelling of East-Asian American men
before somewhere...
					--Alan Hu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: lam@popeye.comm.mot.com (Dan Lam)
Subject: Re: anonymous accounts
Organization: Land Mobile Products Sector, Motorola INC.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:47:39 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.195442.16323@almserv.uucp> g9utxu@fnma.COM writes:
>So how can we stop it ?
>TU

Just re-subscribed andI am pissed too having to read this stupid "bimbo" post.  So my
suggestions is 

	Do not follow up or reply to anonymous poster.

Exception:  anonymous posts are ok if the posters(netters?) have
legitimate reasons for posting anonymously.  For example, fear of losing
job, prejudice, marriage breakup, etc. due to posting.  (There are more
reasons and their legitimacy can be deteremined using common sense).

Even thought there is a lack of friendliness here, scaa'ers are open
minded and i see very little need for anonymity.  (my own opinion,
ofcourse).

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: g9utxu@fnma.COM (Tanin Uthayanaka)
Subject: Freedom of speech (was RE: anonymous accounts)
Reply-To: g9utxu@fnma.COM
Organization: Fannie Mae
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:31:08 GMT

In article 15917@mtu.edu, barrera@mtu.edu (Barrera) writes:
>ra01+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rikiya Asano) writes:

Stuff deleted...

>I don't see anyone ever going to jail for this. You seem to have a great
>incomprehension of the definition of anonymity and impersonation, as well
>as the laws of freedom of speech. 
>
>-chris barrera     barrera@mtu.edu     gorim@irc   :-)

Now that you`ve mentioned freedom of speech. I would like here from any of you lawyers 
out there that may be able to clarify what a person can or can not say without 
incriminating himself/herself. 



Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american