HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: creps@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS, THROUGHOUT HISTORY
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 22:07:25 GMT

   WARNING: META-DISCUSSION:

In article <qwcanht@Unify.Com> ceb@dbrus.Unify.Com (Caroline E. Bryan) writes:
>In article <FXARS.93Jan26093538@rama2.acf-lab.alaska.edu> fxars@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (Allen R Sparks) writes:
>>What gets me about that post was that it wasn't a crosspost from
>>somewhere else like most of the nuts that post on this group.  Why did
>>he pick this group?  === Al
>
>Don't feel like he singled soc.history out.  He posted the same drivel to
>sci.geo.geology.  I'm waiting for it to pop up on soc.religion.christian
>as well -- that will take a little longer because the group is moderated.

   Which means it won't appear there.  And rightly so.

   Actually, I wouldn't be surprised to see it pop up on
comp.protocols.kerberos.  Maybe if everyone who saw his article were
to reply to it via e-mail and tell him what they thought of it, he
would be satisfied.

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: US marines in Hawaii
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1993Jan15.092718.119764@marshall.wvnet.edu>
	<1993Jan16.170434.742@julian.uwo.ca> <1993Jan18.152736.8071@acuson.com>
Date: 22 Jan 93 15:24:09

Michael Goldman should realize how much imaginative discussion he has
killed off by injecting so many actual facts.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
From: jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu.au (Joseph Askew)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: Firing Squads
Summary: It is a myth
Date: 28 Jan 93 00:42:41 GMT
Followup-To: soc.history
Organization: Statistics, Pure & Applied Mathematics, University of Adelaide

In article <1993Jan24.193409.17444@leland.Stanford.EDU> balt@leland.Stanford.EDU (Steven Leo Balt) writes:

>       Apparently, it is customary for one man on a firing squad
>to shoot with a blank.

No this is an urban myth. This is decidedly not the practise anywhere.
A blank fired from a gun causes a different recoil than a slug. You can
feel whether or not you have fired a blank by the size of the bruise on
your shoulder!

>This member of the squad, of course, does not
>know that he does actually have the unloaded gun-- the guns are loaded
>before the execution by a third party (who loads a blank into one gun),

Firing squads do not do this. Soldiers invariably load their own guns.

>This is
>presumably a method of assuaging the guilt of the men on the firing
>squad (i.e., there's always the possibility that a given individual on
>the firing squad did _not_ kill the victim).

Soldiers that don't want to kill usually just aim to miss. Why would
anyone care what the firing squad felt? Do you think that Generals are
happy that their soldiers are a bunch of wimps who get upset at killing
people? Why on earth would they want to spare their feelings?

>Which army was the first
>to introduce this practice into firing squad executions?  Why was it done?
>Any documentation?  Any resources that I should check?

I do not believe there is any serious documentation of this practice anywhere
Some people have told this story in the past because they don't like the stigma
attached to being on a firing squad (in particularly if they have to shoot
'innocents' such as women, deserters, cowards, children etc). There is no
evidence that I am aware of that indicates this ever took place. Besides
which as I said everyone would know anyway. Real bullets have a different
kick than blanks.


Joseph Askew


-- 
Joseph Askew, Gauche and Proud  Barbarian horns draw out the northern wind;
jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu  Paler than water lies the Thistle Pass;
Disclaimer? Sue, see if I care  Sky swallows up the road to Kokonor;
One China One Korea One Eire32  Moonlight, a thousand miles along the Wall.
From: de@moscom.com (David Esan)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: another important John
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:49:50 GMT
Organization: Moscom Corporation, Pittsford NY

In article <106655@netnews.upenn.edu> kniaz@sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu (Chris Kniaz -Fischer) writes:
>
>Jan (Polish for John) III Sobieski relieved besiedged Vienna and
>defeated Turkish forces commanded by Kara Mustafa in 1683. The expansion
>of the barbaric, Ottoman empire into Central Europe was stopped.
	^^^^^^^^

Hmmm.  I smell flame bait.  Why not post this to soc.culture.turkey, and wait
for the reaction?

Given the state of culture in both societies at the time compared to today,
they were both barbaric.  Comparing the two cultures to each other is 
difficult given my bias of being here and now.  They probably both had good
and bad points, things that made for high culture in the midst of barbarism.




-- 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 -->     David Esan      de@moscom.com  
 
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Sparta, the Jesuits, and the Nazi state
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 18:15:27 GMT
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac
Keywords: Sparta,Jesuit,Nazi Germany

A friend recently discussed similarities between Sparta, the Jesuit order,
and the Nazi German state with regard to the use of an educational system to
promulgate and maintain their philosophy/agenda.

As it seemed to me that virtually all states use educational systems to
establish and maintain their sovereignty, I wondered why the Jesuit order
and the two states noted seemed any different to her, and thought I'd put
the question here.

I am also interested in any similarities between the Spartan
social/political system and the Nazi German social/political system, as it
seems to me (knowing very little about Sparta) that there are far more
differences than similarities, and I'd like to learn more.

It also seems that it would be very difficult to compare Sparta with Nazi
Germany, given that the Nazis were only around for a fistfull of years,
while Sparta survived for many hundreds of years. Given that Sparta's
socio-political setup must have undergone some changes in such a span of
time, how would a historian determine which period most represented
"Sparta," in order to compare that "Sparta" with Nazi Germany?

-- 
The Old Frog's Almanac - Public Access UseNet for Central Vancouver Island
     (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) SCO XENIX 2.3.2 GT 
 Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. Just south of Tupperware Central...  
                 Information is power - get connected
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: asgds@acad2.alaska.edu
Subject: Help! I need a list of books...
Organization: University of Alaska
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:56:37 GMT




	I am trying to find information on the years between 900 and
1100 AD.  I have two main areas of interest.
		1. books (etc.) that deal with the artifacts of the times. 
What did every day belongings and objects (clothes, accessories, knives, boxes,
shoes, carts,sailing ships, houses, etc...) look like and how were they made?
		2. What was going on at the time; politics, customs, trade,
etc.
	The reason I am interested in any info you could provide is that I am a
member of a group called the Society for Creative Anachronism.  The SCA as it
is known is a non-profit educational corporation whose members try to recreate
the fun and interesting things (the actual generic quote says "Better aspects")
of the Middle Ages and Renaiscence.  In the SCA you make up an SCA name.  This
can just be a name you use, or you can make up what is known as a Persona.
	A persona, is basically a character that you play at being at SCA
events.  I have chosen a "French" man of the 11th century named Charles.  For a
while just knowing his name and the general place he was from was enough, but I
have reached a point where I would really like to learn as much as I can.
	I hope that explaining my reasons for needing will help those of you
who are reading in telling me what books (or other research materials) I should 
read and/or buy.
					Yours in history,
						Geoff Stewart
					Known in the SCA as Charles Toutaurien
From: kniaz@sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu (Chris Kniaz -Fischer)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: another important John
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:41:19 GMT
Organization: Laboratory for Research on the Structure of Matter, University of Pennsylvania


Jan (Polish for John) III Sobieski relieved besiedged Vienna and
defeated Turkish forces commanded by Kara Mustafa in 1683. The expansion
of the barbaric, Ottoman empire into Central Europe was stopped.
-- 

Krzysztof Kniaz, Penn |  
LRSM ,                | "A witty saying proves nothing"
Phila, PA, 19104, USA |                 Voltaire
From: traynor@fnala.fnal.gov
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: Greek Philosophy is a Joke (was Re: Macedonia ...)
Date: 27 Jan 93 22:56:39 -0600
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: fnala.fnal.gov

In article <1993Jan27.042333.6619@afterlife.ncsc.mil>, agscrib@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur Scribner) writes:
> Of course you won't read that in the "accepted" literature. The Ancient
> Africans contribution to civilization has been written out of the history
> books. If you would like references I have plenty. You should start out with
> "Stolen Legacy" by George G. M. James published by Julian Richardson Assoc.
> It was originally published by Philosophical Library. This book explains
> the chronolgy of the so-called Greek philosophers and the discrepencies
> that arise when they (the Greek philosophers) are examined. The inconsistencies
> the "evolution" of Greek philosophy abound. If you like I can go into
> greater detail at a later time. Another book "Africa: Mother of Western
> Civilzation" by Dr. Yosef Ben Jochannon, fully explains the intricately
> organized system of Egyptian philosophy, Science, Mathematics, Astronomy etc.
> These diciplines were formally integrated into what was known as the
> Egyptian Mysteries. They even included the foundations of what was to become
> the major Western religions i.e Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Nevertheless,
> both books provide tons of well documented references to my orginal premise.
> Other books that would add to this are "Anacalypsis Vol I & II" by
> Sir Godfrey Higgins, "Ancient Egypt: Light of the World" and "Book of the
> Beginnings" both by Gerald Massey. As for "Black Athena" Bernal, not Bernard,
> did not provide the in-depth analysis for the real African root of Western
> civilization. 
[...]
> Any Comments?
> 
> Arthur 
> 

Oh, so it's all a plot!  This garbage is as bad as the Nazi revisionist history that
had all progress and wonder coming from the Aryan race (and ancient Greeks were
supposedly Aryan).  Are Europeans the only people that have committed evil acts
in this world?  Is Western civilization simply a blight holding back the happiness
and progress of otherwise perfect peoples!

I remember a quote from a Latin American author who had enought of anti-American
revisionist history a few years ago (paraphrased) '....Looking at some of my 
compatriots view of history, one would think that the main problem confronting
the Latin American nations before US involvement was the obesity of the peasants...'

					-Mike Traynor

NNN  NN DDDD    Mike Traynor (ND '86)(Rice '94?) |||     Amiga 500 owner   ///
 N N N   DR D   Fermilab PO Box 500 MS 221 E683  |||     w/MMR 13 Meg RAM ///
 N  NN   D RD   Batavia IL, 60510   USA         //|\\    190 Meg HD   \\\/// 
NN   NN DDDD    (708) 879-6095 [ans. mach.]    /// \\\   14.4Kbps modem\XX/


Xref: sparky soc.history:10896 sci.anthropology:1797 rec.org.sca:18053 soc.couples:4864
From: rm4@st-andrews.ac.uk (Rosa Michaelson)
Newsgroups: soc.history,sci.anthropology,rec.org.sca,soc.couples
Subject: Re: Looking for information on Highland Scots and Colonial USA weddings.
Date: 22 Jan 93 12:02:52 GMT
Organization: Dundee University


Well I just saw a new book by the folklorist Margaret Bennet, Lecturer
at The School of Scottish Studies, Edinburgh University, which is a collection
of items on Scottish customs from brith to death. This included 17th
century writings/ 18th century quotes and interesting interviews from  more
recent folk. Will post title when I refind the text.  
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: anthony@cs.uq.oz.au (Anthony Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: 105mm howitzer against WWII tanks (was Re: 50 Years Ago: Thursday, 21 January, 1943)
Date: 24 Jan 93 22:30:55 GMT
Reply-To: anthony@cs.uq.oz.au

In <C17vLH.EJF@law7.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker) writes:

:"Before we got this gun [the M7 self-propelled 105mm] we were unable to
:master the enemy tanks with our tanks... Then we came back with this new
:development... Thanks be to President Roosevelt and the American arms
:factories, we are getting all we want." - General Bernard Montgomery

I didn't realise that the allies used their 105mm howitzer to kill tanks ?
Is this possible ?  I have also heard that the British 25pounder could be
used in an anti-tank role.
--
Anthony Lee (Time Lord Doctor) (These are my opinions !)
email: anthony@cs.uq.oz.au	voice:+(61)-7-3651204 FAX:+(61)-7-3651999
SNAIL: Department Computer Science, The University of Queensland, 
       St Lucia, Qld 4072, Australia
Xref: sparky soc.history:10878 sci.anthropology:1781 rec.org.sca:17990 soc.couples:4843
From: dcleek@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Dick Cleek)
Newsgroups: soc.history,sci.anthropology,rec.org.sca,soc.couples
Subject: Re: Looking for information on Highland Scots and Colonial USA weddings.
Date: 21 Jan 1993 13:54:21 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Reply-To: dcleek@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: dcleek@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

From article <C15n7F.5Js@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>, by jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin):
> jacobus@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kirsten C. Jacobus) wrote:
> [ ... wants her wedding to re-enact something a Scottish
>   Highlander in America might have had in the 18th century...]

try David Fisher's ALBION'S SEED: FOUR BRITISH  FOLKWAYS IN AMERICA, 1989

but lookout for chivarees, I'm not sure you want to be TOO authentic...


-- 
..........   .........................         .......................
: |_|\/\/ :   Dick Cleek                        dcleek@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
:.centers.:   Univ.of Wisconsin Centers         dcleek@uwcmail.uwc.edu
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: Columbus/Slaves
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:37:24 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1993Jan20.202548.6905@Princeton.EDU>, glhewitt@bathe.Princeton.EDU (Gary Livingston Hewitt) writes:
> In article <1993Jan14.154900.1115@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
# #I believe examination of the American Great Plains indicate that it was once
# #the 'Great Inland Forest' (a typical deciduous crown forest). It was burned
# #off by the Indians several thousand years ago in an old method of hunting 
# #buffalo.
# 
# Wow -- what are the great plains, a few hundred thousand square miles?
# Man, now I know why the dinosaurs went extinct!  Global cooling because
# of all the smoke that fire caused! :-)
# 
# I've heard that it's the meadows of Kentucky that were created by
# large-scale Indian burnings, but I never heard the great plains.  I
# doubt that large-scale deciduous crown forests could grow on the
# 10-or-so inches/year of the high great plains.
# 
#   ||    |    Gary| L. Hewitt|       |   ||  HELP!  I've been imprisoned

"Great Plains" is a pretty nebulous term.  West of the 100th degree
of longitude is, indeed, very dry.  But east of there is another matter.



-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
From: agscrib@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur Scribner)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: Ancient Egyptian history
Keywords: dynasties, egypt
Date: 23 Jan 93 02:50:53 GMT
Organization: The Great Beyond

In article <1993Jan21.135233.11402@ulrik.uio.no> ovep@kih.no (Ove Tro) writes:
>Is there any literature available on the net concerning
>Egyptian history, in particular on the 14.dynasty?
>
>I am making this request on behalf of a friend of mine,
>and I'm quite blank on what to search for or where to begin.
>If you know of any ftp-sites or something to get me started,
>I would be most grateful to get a reply.
>
>Thank you.
>
>-- Ove
>
>- ----------==========###########==========-------- -
>    //                     | "What do you think
>  \X/ (Yep, me too...)     |  this is?  Real life?"
>Ove Petter Tro,            |    - Ford Fairlane.
>Kongsberg College          |
>of Engineering, Norway     | A nowrap .sig....
>- ----------==========###########==========-------- -

Although I am not aware of any repository of information pertaining to Egypt or
Egyptology on the net, I can recommend a few excellent books on the subject.

1. Africa: Mother of Western Civilization. by Dr. Yosef Ben Jochannon
2. African Origin of the Major Western Religions by Dr. Yosef Ben Jochannon
3. Black Man of the Nile by Dr. Yosef Ben Jochannon
4. Abu Simbel to Ghizeh by Dr. Yosef Ben Jochannon
5. The Destruction of Black Civilization by Dr. Chancellor Williams
6. The African Origin of Civilization by Cheikh Anta Diop
7. Egypt and Her Black Pharoahs by J.A. Rogers

These are just a few to get you started. The study of Ancient Civilizations,
African civilizations, Religious history and History in general are of great
interest to me. I hope this helps

Arthur

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  _/_/_/     _/_/_/   _/_/_/_/   _/_/_/   _/_/_/_/   ||
_/     _/  _/     _/  _/     _/    _/     _/     _/  || "THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!"
_/         _/         _/     _/    _/     _/     _/  ||      THE HIGHLANDER
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: fxars@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (Allen R Sparks)
Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS, THROUGHOUT HISTORY
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:35:38 GMT

What gets me about that post was that it wasn't a crosspost from
somewhere else like most of the nuts that post on this group.  Why did
he pick this group?  === Al
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: poll@patty.gud.siemens.co.at (Nikolaus Pollak)
Subject: european history 400-800
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 09:31:39 GMT
Organization: SIEMENS Austria Corp., A-1100 Wien, Gudrunstr. 11
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Does anyone know books in german about the period 400-800 in europe.
Perhaps there exists a literature list.
Thanks in advance

--

+---------------------------------------+-------------------------------+
| Nikolaus Pollak			|	SIEMENS Austria Corp.   |
| Email: poll@siemens.co.at	 	|	PSE 2354                |
| Phone: +43-1-60171-5719		|	Gudrunstr. 11.          |
| Fax:   +43-1-60171-5712		|	A-1100 Wien             |
+---------------------------------------+-------------------------------+
From: accran@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Robert Nehmer)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: St. Augustine
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:33:08 GMT
Organization: Georgia State University

traynor@fnala.fnal.gov writes:

>In article <1993Jan26.053218.7064@midway.uchicago.edu>, ogil@quads.uchicago.edu (Brian W. Ogilvie) writes:
>> In article <nestabro.727973425@nova> nestabro@nova.gmi.edu (Noel Estabrook) writes:
>>>Anybody out there know the exact dates for St. Augustine?  E-mail
>> 

>I think he died in 429 near or in Carthage.  He died during the Vandal
>siege of Carthage, I think.

>				-Mike Traynor


It was Hippo, not Carthage.
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: CBlack@massey.ac.nz (C.K. Black)
Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS, THROUGHOUT HISTORY
Summary: Who listens
Keywords: Who knows
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 93 01:56:18 GMT

Al Sparks in Alaska asks.....

>Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS, THROUGHOUT HISTORY
>Message-ID: <FXARS.93Jan26093538@rama2.acf-lab.alaska.edu>
>From: fxars@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (Allen R Sparks)

>>In-Reply-To: wlange@eis.calstate.edu's message of Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14: 34:44 GMT

>What gets me about that post was that it wasn't a crosspost from
>somewhere else like most of the nuts that post on this group.  Why did
>he pick this group?  === Al

Ahhhh Al,  Come on mate,  you've been in this group long enough to know
that soc.history attracts all the finest revionists, hatemongers and
lunatics;  your B-CPU's, Argics and the like.  The same way that sh*t 
attracts flies.  How about if you and I get together and write the true
story about the Boer war,  that it all started one day when your grandpappy
and mine had a little disagreement about the relative merits of Dutch and
British beers and how you could or could not grow good barley in South Africa?
8^)    Cheers........
-- 
Conrad Black 

Email... C.K.Black@massey.ac.nz
Snail... Massey U., Plant Sc. Dept., Palmerston North, New Zealand
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: visser@convex.com (Lance Visser)
Subject: Re: Have you ever noticed that Mutlu and Argic.....
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 07:44:29 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <CB.93Jan21174155@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:

+>Relgov writes:

+>   If you actually read his drivel, you'll find that the articles repeat
+>   themselves.  There are a couple of articles that stick in my mind that will
+>   reappear every few weeks or so.  Only the introduction changes.

+>I'm amazed that *anyone* reads Argic/Mutlu/Sera's material!  Even if I didn't
+>have a kill file (which still leaves his subject lines on the menu) I'd still
+>skip them.  I lost interest REAL fast.

	The problem is that if nobody pays attention or makes an effort
to show his material and tactics for what they are, there may be people
taken in by it.  

	After one or two rounds with him, you can guess what the content
of the message is going to be fairly quickly because he rarely posts
anything outside his files.



Newsgroups: soc.history
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Columbus/Slaves
In-reply-to: miklg@acuson.com's message of Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:22:12 GMT
Organization: pubs
	<1993Jan14.154900.1115@island.COM>
Distribution: usa
Date: 21 Jan 93 14:11:40 CST

Mike Fester writes:

   > I believe examination of the American Great Plains indicate that it was once
   > the 'Great Inland Forest' (a typical deciduous crown forest). It was burned
   > off by the Indians several thousand years ago in an old method of hunting 
   > buffalo.

A book from about 1978 called The American Farm contains a long description of
the prairies and their history.  I believe the text either says explicitly or
clearly implies that the great plains were always prairie ("always" meaning
"since well before people arrived"), though the boundary between forest and
prairie kept shifting one way and then the other.  Fires were a basic part of
the prairie/forest competition, though the fires were only the relatively rare
ones caused by lightning.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: Pegasus@AAA.Uoregon.EDU (Pegasus)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Med FTP sites
Followup-To: soc.history
Date: 28 Jan 1993 01:31:59 GMT
Organization: The Polyhedron Group
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: fp1-dialin-4.uoregon.edu

Is there a current list of FTP sites deling with Medieval topics?
If so send it to me E- Mail

Laurie E. W. Brandt
Xref: sparky soc.history:11066 soc.culture.europe:11518 soc.culture.greek:12694