From: kellmeye@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (kellmeyer steven l)
Subject: Re: rights and responsibilities
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 03:29:56 GMT

jbrindle@halcyon.com (Jennifer Brindle) writes:

>In article <1992Oct13.000130.1894@anasazi.com> best@anasazi.com (Mike Best) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct7.162454.17273@nwnexus.WA.COM> jbrindle@halcyon.com (Jennifer Brindle) writes:
>>>In article <Oct05.203207.51974@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> sa114984@longs.lance.colostate.edu (Steven Arnold) writes:
>>>> [responsibilities analogies deleted]
>>>
>>>You aren't the pregnant woman. YOU HAVE NO SAY.
>>
>>We all have a say in how our society is to function, those are the rules.

>You may have a say in how society functions, but no say in what I do
>when faced with an unexpected and/or unwanted pregnancy.

Nor does the man.  All he does is supply a bit of raw material.  You
supply all the work.  YOu supply the location.  You supply the decision
to create a child.  He isn't in the picture at all.  He has no right
to say a thing.  It's not his decision, it's not his work, it's not
his body, it's not his economic future, it's not created by him, it's
not his child support, since he didn't make the child, he didn't have
any part in the decision, he didn't supply anything but a bit of
raw material.

>>
>>Most of your post is pretty cold stuff.  I've been following the anti-arguments
>>and it seems to me that the question you all are dodging is that of taking
>>responsibility for your actions.  This is actually extrapolatable to many

>No, I don't believe that an abortion is an irresponsible action, per se.
>I think that abortion can be a perfectly reasonable action, and very 
>responsible.  

Then you must think that a man's decision not to pay child support is
also a perfectly reasonable action, and very responsible.
After all, if a woman's choice for abortion is based on her economic
and/or physical future, than so is her choice for a child.  The man 
doesn't enter into the first economic/physical decision, and he shouldn't
enter into the second.

>>liberal positions - it's not my fault that I {got AIDS, got pregnant, haven't
>>got a job, etc.}  Pragmatically I think that abortion is acceptable within

>I don't place blame at all.  I don't CARE who's fault it is, or even if
>the couple used birth control.  If the woman doesn't want to be pregnant,
>she can get an abortion if she wants.  It's that simple.

And if the man doesn't want to pay child support, he can walk if he wants.
It's that simple.

>>certain limits by most of America.  I do not think that I have the obligation

>Who sets these limits?  How are they enforced?  Remember that a law that
>is selectively enforced, or unenforcable is unconstitutional.

Hear, hear! Abolish child support - be PRO-CHOICE!

>>What this country needs is a good 5 cent abortion pill,

>I'd agree with that in part.

Oh absolutely.  It makes the argument in favor of the abolition of child
support that much easier.  After all, popping a pill is SO easy.  It's 
not like getting an abortion would be any inconvenience for the woman
at all, in that case.  So much easier for the man to argue that the child
isn't his problem since it was the woman's decision to carry to term, a
decision with which he had nothing to do, and which should not involve 
him.

>>Mike Best
>>

>Jennifer

Steve Kellmeyer
-- 

Steve Kellmeyer 
kellmeye@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu