HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: joy@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Chien-Chung Chen)
Subject: Re: Stereotype of TIers
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 13:28:31 GMT

In article <xGX=ks@engin.umich.edu> echang@engin.umich.edu writes:
>
>In article <Bzoyqs.KqG@austin.ibm.com>, tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com (Ty Lee) writes:
>> 
>> What a joke! TIers want to be treated equally with what Sun did.
>> To me, those terrors (by TIers, of course) involved many people's lives,
>> families, and friends, how could you say it so lightly? Do you have any
>> human lineage in your body? Just let me understand your mentality
>> behind this. You speak like a CNP spy, don't you?
>> 
>	Could you give the netters some examples to sustain your
>arguments you seemed to imply that MOST (if not ALL) of the TIers,
>Pro-TIers are terrorists.  
>Please cite your resources and evidences.  I suspect the stereotyped
>terrorist image of TIers has been the product of the KMT propaganda.

I have no problem with most of your remarks. But here could you give
the netters some examples to sustain your arguments that the stereotyped
terrorist image of TIers could have been the product of the KMT propaganda?
Please cite your resources and evidences. I suspect the stereotyped
image of KMT propaganda has been the product of TIers' propaganda. :)

-- Chien-Chung Chen
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: tujf@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Jay F. Tu)
Subject: Condemning terrorists
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 04:22:31 GMT

TI or not is the choice of Taiwanese. Chunde Shi promised
bloodshed against Taiwan if TI happens.
I resent this type of terrorist thought.  I won't tolerate
life threat to my family, my friends, and all my country fellows.

Chunde Shi should appologize or to be declared as a terrorist.

Tu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com (Ty Lee)
Subject: Re: Election in Taiwan
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:37:57 GMT
Organization: IBM, Austin

In article <1992Dec22.155710.18149@cbnews.cb.att.com> liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao) writes:
>Seems to me that you just cannot catch up with the speed of change in
>Taiwan. If there exists any TI terrorist overseas (w.r.t. Taiwan), he/she
>must be joking. Taiwan does not need any terrorism to make its own
>decision. Taiwan does not need any foreigner to help it's decision making.
>

I disagree with you that I did not catch up the change in Taiwan.

Yes, I am serious and not joking. Let me paraphrase your sentences
to reflect the true change and meaning that should be.

"TI terrorists do not need terrorism to make their own decision
(what a joke, since they have passed the stage stated in their FAPA document).
Taiwan terrorists need only Japanese colonists to help
make their decision (see YCC's past arcticle about Japanese)."

What I meant on my response is that based on the past obnoxious history
of TI terrorists on mobs, killing (force people to set fire on their own 
bodies), bombing, social disorder and paralysis, blackmailing, ...
I believe the threats to the ROC government come not only from the CCP
communist regime but from TI terrorist paranoias.

And the statements made by me should be clear that I favor no Chinese
Nationalists. I favor the stability and the welfare of Taiwan. I favor
not the cheap, superficial "democracy" *pushed* by the DPP. I favor a
well defined yet to be adapted to the current situation democracy and
republic by Dr. Sun Yat-Sen.

>I also heard that President Li used to be a Communist in his early days.
>Then what? In the early days of Communism, young bloods joined Communist
>Party mostly because of its idealism not its terrorism. What's wrong
>with one joined Communist Party? What's wrong with the late Chiang Junior
>joined Communist Party? What's wrong with President Li joined Communist
>Party? It tells me that they both have some sort of idealism in their mind.
>I am afraid that your anti-Communism thought is based on your fear of
>Communism.
>

Can't you see that I attached a big laugh on the end of my article.
That is very explanatory of my statement, isn't it?

Please be consistent on your TI attitude, those two are Chinese Nationalists.

8=D
>Heng-Hsin
>


-- 
/* The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of IBM's.         *\
 * Take care and have a nice day.                                            *
\* Ty Lee                                                                    */
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: chshan@csie.nctu.edu.tw (S. Shann())
Subject: X'mas
Organization: Computer Science & Information Engin., Chiao-Tung U, Taiwan, ROC
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 05:01:47 GMT



	
         
                         
         
                         
                 

           
                                           
                           
                                               
                           



Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: tao@balboa.eng.uci.edu (Eric Yihching Tao)
Subject: Re: Election in Taiwan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 21 Dec 92 19:43:07 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.160926.15558@zip.eecs.umich.edu> cyc@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang) writes:
[lines deleted]
>>KMT may have to bear full responsibility if DDP win in the future for missing 
>>the opertunity for unification. bloodshed will be certainly the outcome for TI,
>>sooner or later.
>>
>
>Every country formed in this world cannot avoid bloodshed unfortunately.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I hate to accuse people being ignorant, but please read some history, don't
think too much before you acquiring adequet infomation, it's dangerous.

>Even given the birth to a baby can't avoid bloodshed, so why are you so 
                                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>afraid of bloodshed ? If so, I don't think you can even have a child.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
OOOH! If you are so font of bloodshed, why don't you just kill your self and
all your family? Maybe right after that, you will see a new country: 

Tien(1) Kuo(2)     ->  Heaven 
 
>Besides, who can guarantee that there won't be bloodshed if KMT united with
>CCP ? In fact, there may be lot more bloodshed if CCP come to Taiwan.
>So, man, forget about CCP, its history in Taiwan.
>
I am glad we finally agree on something, it seems nobody like CCP.

>Yi-Chieh

Eric
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: joy@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Chien-Chung Chen)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 00:37:08 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.230820.9111@cbnews.cb.att.com> liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao) writes:
>From article <1992Dec31.213544.28453@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, by joy@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Chien-Chung Chen):
>> 
>> If your prediction about China's splitting is correct, then why don't
>> we keep "status quo" and wait a little longer? When China splits into
>> several parts, the risk of war that Taiwan takes in declaring independence
>> will be much smaller. :)
>
>The problem is nobody know when it is going to happen.
>
>> China is changing rapidly now. I don't know whether China's democracy will
>> come or not. Before we turn our back to China, why don't we wait a little
>> longer and give it a chance? The wait may be worthwhile. At least, we don't
>> have to face immediate hostility from China now.
>
>We do need some time to evaluate independence/unification while we are
>"waiting." In your opinion, is there deadline for the waiting?

Seems like you are a lot more impatient than I am. :)
It is difficult for me to draw a hard deadline. It depends on how China
moves in the future. Especially, how China treats HK people after HK is
returned to China. It may take 10 or 15 years to tell whether China's
democracy is on the right track.

-- CHien-Chung Chen
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:16659 soc.culture.china:33711
From: npchen@bohr.physics.purdue.edu (Nien-Po Chen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china
Subject: Hakka, anyone out there?
Date: 31 Dec 92 21:52:40 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.taiwan
Organization: Purdue University Physics Department

Hi netters,

Does anybody know if there is a newsgourp discussing about Hakka (Ke4 Jia1 Ren2)
(second large ethnic group in Taiwan; largest one is Min3 Nan2 Ren2)?

Also, welcome any Hakka or anyone interested in Hakka culture to E-mail me.

Happy New Year!
Chen, Nien-Po		npchen@physics.purdue.edu
12/31/92
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: tujf@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Jay F. Tu)
Subject: n
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 16:52:34 GMT

Chunde Shi threatened again to have a war against Taiwan.  And this time
the war will be world war as he said "It will not be a Civil War, it     
is going to be another battle between East and West civilization."
I posted before he should apologize for his life threats to my family
, friends, and all country men in Taiwan.  He didn't.  I, therefore,
claim he is a terrorist, spreading hate words in this net.
I also wish Republic of Mogolia good luck, because Chunde Shi will
also declare war against them if they don't abandon their independence
. 

Tu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: wwang@iastate.edu (Wen-Ping Wang)
Subject: Re: World Journal
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 01:18:32 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.181830.26904@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> hhwu@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (eric.wu) writes:
 .................
>
>Before 1/1/92, I would say "China Times Weekly" was the most readable
>publication for Taiwanese.  By readable I mean not much mental 
>correction is required.

What about the weekly magazine 'The Journalist', and the weekly
newspaper 'The Independence Weekly Post' ? IMHO, they are the 'most' (
quote here means it is a relative term ) objective and professional
publications on Taiwan's news.

W.P. Wang

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: changhp@engin.umich.edu (Hsiou-Ping Chang)
Subject: Re: Is TI so rossy?
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 93 20:44:27 EST
Organization: The University of Michigan
Reply-To: echang@engin.umich.edu
Originator: changhp@fijan.engin.umich.edu


In article <C0AJ4q.3qr@ulowell.ulowell.edu>, cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
> In article <dqb=v+C@engin.umich.edu> echang@engin.umich.edu writes:
> >
> >	
> >You posted to a wrong newsgroup; people of Taiwan won't initiate a war.
> >But, there is no way we give up our freedom, democracy and our established
> >achievements to avoid a war.   As long as the threat is there, TI will be there.
> two points:
>    1. The prices you mentioned  the mainlander is going to pay, has been payed
>  by mainland for at elast 20 years(1949-1972). Taiwan issue dragged mainland
> to persue fully her intrests in world areana. We are willing to continue to
> pay if we have to.
>    2. Hostility will not be limited aournd the straight. mainland is now
> possesing the capacity the do or not do somethind in the world which will
> have major impact on potential interventionists. And if they do intervene, 
> they better succeed, or they will have more to lose. If China have military
> build up, say from current 3% of GNP to 60% of GNP, we will not limit the 
> conflict to Taiwan, that for sure.

Reading your articles is like reading stories written by someone from the Mars. Furthermore, it seems to me that Martians are going to conquer the Earth!

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: changhp@engin.umich.edu (Hsiou-Ping Chang)
Subject: Re: Stereotype of TIers
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 00:02:51 EST
Organization: The University of Michigan
Reply-To: echang@engin.umich.edu
Originator: changhp@fijan.engin.umich.edu


In article <1992Dec23.132831.9104@zip.eecs.umich.edu>, joy@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Chien-Chung Chen) writes:
> In article <xGX=ks@engin.umich.edu> echang@engin.umich.edu writes:
> >
> >	Could you give the netters some examples to sustain your
> >arguments you seemed to imply that MOST (if not ALL) of the TIers,
> >Pro-TIers are terrorists.  
> >Please cite your resources and evidences.  I suspect the stereotyped
> >terrorist image of TIers has been the product of the KMT propaganda.
> 
> I have no problem with most of your remarks. But here could you give
> the netters some examples to sustain your arguments that the stereotyped
> terrorist image of TIers could have been the product of the KMT propaganda?
> Please cite your resources and evidences. I suspect the stereotyped
> image of KMT propaganda has been the product of TIers' propaganda. :)
> 
> -- Chien-Chung Chen

Well, I am reluctant to reply to someone who asked questions simply 
because he/she wanted to practice his/her English; however, I think I'll do
my best to help him/her out.  :-)

	I've already cited the "Formosa Event" as an example to illustrate
the powerful KMT propaganda.  If that cannot help you, how about the
military brain-washing classes (JYU3 KUAN1 ZOO4):  "A tiny bunch of evil
overseas TIers" sounds familiar to you, doesn't it?  

	Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
	
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: wwang@iastate.edu (Wen-Ping Wang)
Subject: Re: Election in Taiwan
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 01:41:08 GMT

In article <Bzo8z9.7s6@austin.ibm.com> tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com (Ty Lee) writes:
  ............
>
>What I meant on my response is that based on the past obnoxious history
>of TI terrorists on mobs, killing (force people to set fire on their own 
>bodies), bombing, social disorder and paralysis, blackmailing, ...
>I believe the threats to the ROC government come not only from the CCP
>communist regime but from TI terrorist paranoias.
>

How do you know those two people( namely, Cheng nan-rong and Jhen
yi-hwa ) were forced by the "TI terrorist" to burn themself, istead
of by their own will to express the right for freedom of speech?

I think everyone has the right to choose whether independence or
unification? And also has the freedom to express against any of them. But
to cite something which has no truth in it is ignorant and
superficial.

W.P. Wang

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: Eugene.Liu@launchpad.unc.edu (Eugene Liu)
Subject: Re: Is TI so rossy?
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 17:19:25 GMT

In article <1993Jan2.233229.13167@topaz.ucq.edu.au> huangz@topaz.ucq.edu.au writes:
>	The only solution to Taiwan issue is China becoming strong enough 
>to be able to control Taiwan by force in short time, despite possible foreign
>power's limited intervence. (I don't know exactly how powerful Chinese military
>is, maybe the solution is already there.)  
>	By then, Taiwan might choose independence and recognized by a generous
>Chinese government, might choose unification with mainland, might choose war
>in which it was defeated quickly. In one word, I hope a not so painful 
>solution.
> ......

If you want "China becoming strong enough to be able to control Taiwan BY
FORCE," I don't think you will see a painless result!

I'm sure the poeple living in Taiwan will sure to defend Taiwan if there are
foreign (as in "outside," not "another country") forces indaving. There are 
just many things worth defending. Family, prosperous economy, democracy (even
if it just "started"), and much more.

For every action there's a reaction...
:E.Liu
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com (Ty Lee)
Subject: Re: Question about ROC's government structure
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:30:52 GMT
Organization: IBM, Austin

In article <1992Dec21.173212.22250@ee.gatech.edu> wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu writes:
>Executive
>Judicial
>Legislative
>Examination-Civil service exams
>Investigative-Check up on everyone
>

The last phrase of the last item is totally untrue. I hope you can find
a better explanation if you got time. IMHO, the duty for that item is to
monitor the ethics of the *government* officials, not including the general
public. That duty is performed by a branch of the executive office.

>
>********************************************************************
>*Peter Wung			Email:wung@ee.gatech.edu	   * 
>*Electric Power Laboratory	Snail mail: 33787 Ga. Tech Station * 
>*School of Electrical Engineering	    Atlanta, GA 30332      *
>*Georgia Institute of Technology			    	   *
>*Atlanta, Georgia						   *
>*   	"Pass, Set, CRUSH!"...					   * 
>*  	Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad for a short, fat guy. 	   *
>*								   *
>********************************************************************
>


-- 
/* The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of IBM's.         *\
 * Take care and have a nice day.                                            *
\* Ty Lee                                                                    */
From: tao@balboa.eng.uci.edu (Eric Yihching Tao)
Subject: Re: Election in Taiwan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 21 Dec 92 09:21:10 GMT

In article <BzLFvo.B4A@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>In article <1992Dec21.013757.24309@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>>In article <BzKwGA.3Ht@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
[Lines deleted]
>>In the northern district of Taipei, for example, the DPP carried a majority.
>>The only seat in Chiayi also went to DPP.
>If it is that dangerously close to TI(if DDP win). Why in the hell KMT is still
>reluctant to have direct dialog with CCP?
>KMT may have to bear full responsibility if DDP win in the future for missing 
>the opertunity for unification. bloodshed will be certainly the outcome for TI,
>sooner or later.
>
If people for Taiwan choose to TI, it is the responsibility of the people. That
is the way democracy works. KMT of course can talk to CCP, but if the people 
are not behind KMT, what is point of talking? KMT can not use force against 
people any more. CCP probably can do it now, but not for long!

I strongly oppose the idea of TI, it is indeed dangerous and useless. It is morea plot for some politicians to grasp power then anything else. As a KMT member,
(and a chinese born and raise in Republic of China), I will try my best to 
influnce people about my idea, but I won't and can't enforce them.

I am proud of being a Chinese, a citizen of ROC and member of KMT, KMT did not
do well in this election as I expected, but I am proud of KMT just because she
can change it self to allow the people to choose, and the whole purpose for 
a political party to exist is for the well being of the country and of the 
people, KMT so far is doing a good job. Even if DDP become a ruling party, 
KMT will be praised by me and lots of other people.

Eric
From: yush@buengc.bu.edu (Guo-Xiang Yu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: How I post articles in Chinese
Date: 28 Dec 92 02:19:35 GMT
Reply-To: yush@buengc.bu.edu (Guo-Xiang Yu)
Followup-To: soc.culture.taiwan
Organization: College of Engineering, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <1992Dec28.003226.20221%ckshih@ne.nthu.edu.tw> ckshih@ne.nthu.edu.tw (Chun-Kuan Shih) writes:
>nhuang@cs.ulowell.edu (Bill Huang) writes:
>> In article <1992Dec20.110835.3569@csie.nctu.edu.tw> chshan@csie.nctu.edu.tw (S. Shann(3f)) writes:
>...
>>...

There is a chinese text newsgoup called "alt.chinese.text". I don't know
the details about the software people use. But I remember you can get
the software from some ftp site for free. Post a request to that
newsgroup if you are interested. I'm sure somebody will tell you the 
details. Till now I don't think that chinese text newsgroup is
exciting, but with more people joining it I hope things will change.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: bbs.lar@tsoft.net (Larry Greenfield)
Subject: *Public Access in Taiwan?
Organization: The TSoft BBS and Public Access Unix, +1 415 969 8238
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 08:52:31 GMT

Hi all.  A quick question if you please.  Are there any computer systems 
hooked to internet/usenet/uucp in the Taipei area that are accessable to 
the general public?  A friend of mine from school moved back to Taipei, 
and I'm wondering if there's a public-access BBS or similar. Thanks. 
Please respond via EMAIL so as nt to take up bandwidth. Thanks again!
:::::Larry:::::

--
Larry Greenfield (bbs.lar@tsoft.net)
From: ericlaw@vax.cns.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re:    HATE EACH OTHER ? TIME FOR TIAWAN INDEPENDENCE
Date: 22 Dec 92 16:45:48 GMT
Organization: Muskingum College

In article <21DEC199216061834@mars.lerc.nasa.gov>, ioguo@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (OA Guo) writes:
> 
> 	Eric, should I say it again?  You really have a mental block on
> 	what is democracy.  I agreed with Nelson wholeheartedly on the
> 	issue of "freedom of speech" in a previous posting.

	** I might have some problems. However, this doesn't mean that
	   you don't have problem. How can you be sure you are right? 

	   "Freedom" is a troublesome word. So, whatever attached to
	   this word may cause trouble. The real problem is not 
	   on freedom, but on the evil nature of man. With a little
	   bit education, people can make a white thing look gray and make
	   a black thing appear to be white. This can be called the
	   side-effect of Freedom of Speech which is absolute the 
	   creation of Devil.  

	   My advice to you and Nelson: carefully examine the nature
	   of the subject. Don't be fooled by those people who
	   promote evils under the disguise of "Freedom". A freedom to
	   interfere others is not freedom. A freedom to promote evil
	   should be shut off. You may think my attitude is exactly
	   the cause of all historical troubles. But I tell you, as
	   long as you are a human being, you can't not escape from
	   this. 
	  
> 	May I use your words "something in the world should be black and
> 	white".  It is my principle that "freedom of speech" is right, and
> 	"supressing the freedom of speech" is wrong.  Do you have a problem
> 	with that?  I honor anybody's right to advocate their believes -
> 	including TI, unification, and even communism.  
>> 
>>	   Your principle applies well to gray things.
>>	   HOWEVER, you have to know: NOT EVERYTHING IN THIS WORLD
>>	   IS GRAY.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan