From: austin@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (timothy james austin)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Morals and God is Dead.
Keywords: Morality.
Date: 14 Oct 92 02:05:17 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia

ingles@engin.umich.edu (Ray Ingles) writes:

>In article <parsons.718891651@cygnus.cis.ksu.edu.cis.ksu.edu> parsons@cis.ksu.edu (Scott S Parish ) writes:
>>gj156879@prince.carleton.ca ( gj student 156879) writes:
>>
>>>Well, speaking from personal experience, I've had trouble with moral
>>>concepts as of late, and I've never had a god looking over my
>>>shoulder.  Seems to be something that can get programmed into you with
>>>or without religion.  the thing to do: if the morals BUG you, (say you
>>>want to sleep around and can't, or something that isn't really a good
>>>or a bad thing, but something you've been taught to feel guilty about)
>>>then realize it's a moral someone has put in you, or something that's
>>>developed in you over time that you never noticed, you can change it,
>>>if you want to, or feel the need to.
>>
>>This is so nice to know.  I've been having trouble with the moral concept
>>of murder lately.  It is finally a relief to know that I can over come
>>my problem and change it, since this is a moral that has been put in me.
>>I'm so happy that I no longer have to be bugged by this programming.
>>Should I decide to start my homicidal rampage soon, can I start with you?
>>I know you would understand--what's your address?

>>Scott Parish

> Well, now, as has been posted already, if the only thing restraining you
>from going on a rampage is the belief that a Cosmic Cop will come down
>on you, you may have more problems than just in the realm of morality. :->

It does not seems to me to be an issue of the Cosmic Cop but rather
whether something is moral or not.  I know the word moral is not very easy
to define but it seems to me that we all have a sense of what is right and
a corresponding sense of justice.  

If, for example someone tortured and killed a child then we (at least I
would) have a sense of outrage and think that the person should be punished.
I dont think the idea that we all make up our own morals to be whatever
makes us happy and society *better* (whatever that means) makes any
allowance for a definite set of standards that we expect society in 
general to live by.  This may be fine if every one agreed about what makes
people happy and how we should live, but they don't.

Why should we stop any injustice if it does not affect us?  The whole
idea of morality discussed here seems to be that we just do to others
so we can get something back ourselves.  


> But, to address the point you raise; sure, if you feel it's moral to go
>out and kill people, go for it. But don't expect me to cooperate. Indeed, I
>think you can expect a large number of people to take issue with that.
> I'm not being all that facetious. For all practical purposes, in morality,
>you get what you give. If you feel that you can blow people away, you
>can't really expect them not to blow you away. But, if you can get people
>to cooperate, to see that blowing each othr away is not the best way to
>go about day-to-day living, everybody benefits. Oh, I suppose you do pay
>the price of not being able to go on killing sprees Saturday nights, but
>I'm willing to forego that pleasure to keep my cells metabolizing. Besides,
>ammo costs too much.

That's very considerate of you.

> As has been noted in every Intro to Philosophy class, the ideal society
>from an individual point of view is one where you get to do whatever you
>want and everyone else must obey all the rules. But it's awful hard to
>get people to go along with that (unless you have a church that expouses
>Divine Right of Kings, I guess) and most people settle for giving up some
>freedoms in order to reap the benefits of trade and cooperation.


>Sincerely,

>Ray Ingles                  || The above opinions are probably
>                            || not those of the University of
>ingles@engin.umich.edu      || Michigan. Yet.