From: evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: FLAME! Only a Manual!
Date: 7 Nov 92 21:37:56 GMT
Organization: Somewhere just far enough out of Toronto


I figured that I'd be treading on sacred ground when I suggested that
there are some of us with no shame at not knowing the wonderful karma
to be had while using both feet to drive.

But I hadn't actually thought I'd be challenging people's masculinity.
Some folks, aparently, have a fairly fragile sense of self-worth.

In article <1992Nov5.233636.7822@sol.UVic.CA> atovorni@engr.UVic.CA writes:

>In article 1@dac.mdcbbs.com, asr_2@dac.mdcbbs.com () writes:

>>> Well, I'm one of those not bothered to learn a gearbox, and I'm not at all
>>> concerned, let alone ashamed. It's not fear, it's indifference.

>> ..doesn't matter what it is, you are not willing to learn. Blithely ignorant
>>   is more like it.  What happens when your son wants to learn?  I guess you
>>   won't be there to teach him...oh thats right he can be blithely ignorant
>>   too.  This is not a flame just opinion.

I don't buy that it's not a flame, just because you say it's not. Check
out your dictionary for the meaning of blythe, and tell me again that
your comments weren't intended to insult.

But I can take this, certainly. As flames go, it's rather mild. I take
no insult at being called ignorant in this respect. I don't know how to
tear down an engine block, fly a 727, or program in COBOL, so I'm ignorant
in those matters too. Mea culpa.

It is an axiom that the more one learns, the more one realizes how much
there is to learn. I take no insult from being told that I am ignorant
of many skills which I have chosen not to learn in my life. I may yet
learn how to drive a stick, or how to use all those untouched functions
of my VCR. It boils down to what I choose to learn. And let me tell you,
the nature of the responses I've seen here certainly don't offer much
reason to learn a manual.

And if my kids wants to learn a stick, I'll encourage them, and send them
to the AAA driving school to learn it. My relationship with my kids doesn't
require that I bond with them by teaching them my driving habits. And
they'll probably appreciate the reduction in their insurance fees
because they were tought by someone certified to do so.

>Driving IS a thrill if you are not SHIFTLESS(IMHO.)

Cute. But then, some of us get our thrills in other ways, and don't
need to get them from inanimate objects.

>It is a bore for me to go shiftless...What to do with
>that extra arm and leg?

Indeed. What do you do with that extra arm, ear, and two legs when
talking on the phone? What do you do with those extra elbows while
watching TV? Such worries...

>>  ...Man! Maybe faster isn't more fun but haven't you ever enjoyed racing
>>     a car from a stoplight?  Oh no! This must be a new world man-forgive 
>>     me I daren't give my interpretation of manhood...it would upset your
>>     sensitive nature.

Naah. I came across my share of machos in high school. They were very
cool, and attracted the very cool females. Every now and then I run into
one of them, and sometimes they even recognize me when asking if I want
fries too.

>By new world do you mean North Americans IN GENERAL? There are many
>driving enthusiasts here but more shiftless slobs that block the flow
>of traffic, unfortunately. :+(

Good driving habits are not the exclusive domain of the shifters.

>>> As for the pleasure of driving (when it happens), to me that comes more
>>> from the surroundings than the car driving through it. And beautiful
>>> scenery looks as good out the window of a Citroen 2CV as from a Cadillac
>>> or Miata.

>>.....I thought you were DRIVING if you enjoy the scenery SIT in the 
>>     passenger seat!!

Hey, just because you can't enjoy the scenery while driving doesn't
mean others cant't. That's *your* limitation while driving, not mine.

>>    views like this are what get
>>    us all driving the same car, bland looks, same performance, and 
>>    bland interiors...sure its a tool like you said, but give the 
>>    craftsman a chance to make it more than that.

Craftsmen can continuously improve on their tools. But even besides that,
different people have different needs. Some people need a car that will
boost their ego, that will tell the world about them, that will convey a
sense of power, wealth, or even recklessness. Don't worry, as long as
there are people around who need to get their kicks out of their cars,
Pontiac will keep "building excitement", as will most of the other car
companies.

>>    If the prevalent
>>    view was yours then we could say goodbye to the Ferraris, the
>>    Lambos and I suppose we would all be better off right?

Not at all.

Mankind still needs art. And to me, cars like Ferraris are pieces of art.
They're wonderful to stare at in pictures or tradeshows, but I don't
think most people would buy one even if they could afford it. They're
grotesquely impractical, and can probably be outraced by more-conventional
cars driven by better drivers. To me, someone would buy an exotic car
not because they want to race it, so much as they want to display it.
Buying a Ferrari, like buying a great work of art for a private
collection, is a wonderful way to rub your wealth in peoples' faces,
irrespective of how you feel about driving.

Also, different people have different definitions of what is "useful". For
instance, I have no need for seven seats. So a minivan, to me, means
lugging around lots of excess metal. Others can justify it. By the
same token, people who spend long stretches in freeway driving have
different needs from a car than one that's going to spend most of its
days crawling around Manhattan, or one that's spend a lot of time
off-road. There will never be a one-size-fits-all car, though I
certainly see a trend where cars offering utility are surpassing cars
offering image in market demand.

>And driving TRABANTS!

The Trabant fails many tests of practicality, reliability and value.
As did the Yugo, which (unlike the Trabant) was sold in the U.S.
competitive marketplace. Besides, even practical cars don't have to
look ugly. But this is getting even further off-topic.

Outside of what must look to you like a very clever thing to say,
what's your point about Trabants?

>>> Please be aware that there are many of us for whom getting there
>>> is not necessarily half the fun. You may be amazed at our numbers, but
>>> that's your problem, not mine.

>>....read the above..you make it our problem too, wave next time a car
>>    blows by you, and look carefully it could be your wife in the 
>>    passenger seat

Ah, back to the old bruised macho ego.

Maybe it might occur to you that among the reasons that I treat cars like
toasters, is that I prefer to spend my energies, and derive my enjoyment
of life, from people rather than machines. To me, machines (including
cars and computers) exist exclusively to allow me to enjoy my life
through interactions with other people.

As for my wife, I doubt she'd prefer a car with a shifter, she says it
gets in the way. And she, too, is more impressed by people with quick
minds than quick 0-60 times.

>>  You have a right to your opinion but at least experience driving a 
>>  stickshift and then your opinion will mean something, an apathetic
>>  view is the most dangerous kind.

I tried it for a while, possibly enough that (if presesed) I probably
could drive one. I deliberately chose not to be proficient because I
didn't think it was worth the bother. And nothing I have seen in this
thread, including the challenged manhoods and the insults, has given me
cause to change my mind.

>>  You might be happy about this now
>>  but how many other experiences have you let pass by because you 
>>  couldn't care...

Every human being has a finite number of things about which he can
care. Manual transmissions, and the thrill of blowing past other cars on
the road, aren't high on my list.

>>  try it you may like it..

I did. I didn't.

>Yeah...My mother's not willing to try either. When her car was in the shop,
>I said that she was welcome to use mine. I had to drive her all over town
>because she never could be bothered to learn how to REALLY drive(ARRRGH!)

That's a nonsense argument. If you had a motorcycle and she didn't
know how to drive that, would you blame her too?

>Just say no to boring cars!

...and to boring people who must project their lives through their
cars and the way they drive.

Given a choice between boring people and boring cars, I'll take the
boring cars any day.
-- 
 Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
         evan@telly.on.ca / uunet!utzoo!telly!evan / (416) 452-0504
         "IBM's three letters are probably EBCDIC for CYA" - Nik H.