HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: winter storage
Date: 30 Aug 92 12:24:02 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Public Health Research Institute (New York)

garnham@convex.csd.uwm.edu (David C Garnham) writes:
> Should I [...] settle for shrink wrapped outside storage

	Aaaarggghhh!  Shrink wrapped storage is evil!  What do you plan on
doing with all that shrink wrap plastic at the end of the winter?  It sure
doesn't get reused.  It just gets tossed in the trash bin and eventually
burried in a land fill or dumped in the ocean.  I am hard pressed to think
of a more environmentally-hostile act than to shrink wrap your boat for the
winter.
-- 
roy@wombat.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Public Health Research Institute
455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016, USA
"This never happened to Bart Simpson."
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: heon@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (garry.j.heon)
Subject: Re: Bayliner myths: a challenge
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 14:36:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.222823.913@cs.ubc.ca>, goldberg@cs.ubc.ca (Murray W. Goldberg) writes:
> In article <1992Sep3.194942.21346@cbfsb.cb.att.com> heon@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (garry.j.heon) writes:
> Actually, there is something wrong if you manage to injure yourself (or worse
> yet if you injure your passenger - no matter how well informed). Primarily I
>feel for those dedicated people who must go out at great cost and inconvenience
> (not to mention at risk of life and limb) to rescue silly people who do silly
> things ("wake jumping" comes to mind here). If one lives in isolation, 
> self-inflicted injury is their own business. In a society such as yours (and
> ours) there is a cost to be bourne by the rest of society who support the
> rescue personnel and buy insurance.

Ever watch TV on a weekday night and see those "rescue" type shows.  If
you watch to see what type of recreational activities usually make at least
2 appearences on each show you'll see someone rescued of a mountain that
was injured hiking.  Does these mean that we outlaw hiking?  I think it
would be alot more dangerous to rescue someone off a mountain with
a helicopter than it would be to pluck someone out of the ocean in a 
boat.

> 
> Anyhow, feel free to follow up and have the last word here. I think I have 
> stated my position. I (and I am sure others) am not interested in a flame war.
I think I understand your postition.  If it may be dangerous then don't do it.

> 
> Happy (and safe) boating.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  I agree 100% ....
> 

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: ronerwin@carson.u.washington.edu (Ron Erwin)
Subject: Re: FAQ WANTED
Keywords: power,neglected,startup
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 18:42:46 GMT

It has a small cabin  120hp volvo gas engine and fiberglass hull (i/o).

It hasn't run in 5 years and at that time a new battery was installed in reverse
polarity.

	I'd like your advice and experiences on this.  What to check, what
maybe damaged/corrosion?  The boat has been under tarps for at least 5 years.


			Thanks in advance!

ronerwin@cac.washington.edu
From: "nate lipsen" <nate.lipsen@execnet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: bayliner boats
Date: 28 Aug 92 11:19:17 EST
Reply-To: "nate lipsen" <nate.lipsen@execnet.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Executive Networks Information

CG>it's great.  When we were looking for boats the Trophy model was way
CG>ahead of other type boats in price-vs.-benefits.  The next nearest
CG>boat in benefits we wanted was way beyond our budget and had higher
CG>running costs.

Like all other things in life; boating is a compromise between price and
features. Your perception of the boat is consistant with a report in the
September, 1992 issue of Powerboat Reports.  In a owner survey they found
that "Readers give them an "A" for value but low marks for fit and finish
and overall satisfaction".  Many owners liked the Bayliner but.....

Another area where this can actually be measured is in resale value.
Bayliners depreciate about 50% in 4 years - more than the average boat.
This does not apply to the larger Bayliners.            


CG>treat them and take care of them.  Here is what we do:

Your boat should give you years of good service under your high care; low
stress use.   Enjoy.

                        ........Nate
---
  DeLuxe 1.21 #7169  EMail replies to nate.lipsen@execnet.com
--
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu (Greg Pavlov)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Is transom exhaust worth while?
Keywords: transom exhaust ski power
Date: 30 Aug 92 18:30:38 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

In article <1992Aug24.214739.2676@lgc.com>, rap@zycor.lgc.com (Robert Poldervaart) writes:
>
> ...........  I like the sound of the V8's with the transom
> exhaust on the ski boats and bigger boats.....

  I'm sure you do.  There must be N folks out there just like you.  There are
  N**y, y = { 2:20}, on land and on water, who hate listening to you.  And
  we, being outside of your lovely boats, get much more of the "benefit" of
  your vocal engines....


> What do you think it would sound like with a V6.....
> 
  Not quiter as bad as a V8.  Thank god that the real cig-style boats are ex-
  pensive and most of the two-bit wannabes can't afford them...


  greg (no, not a sailboater) pavlov
  pavlov@fstrf.org
From: ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (especially the mouth part of the face)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Recomend good LORAN ???
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:25:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: jhuvms.2SEP199212251541
Distribution: na
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep1.182953.15225@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu>, whoward@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu (Will Howard) writes...
>If you get a big lift suddenly and are overstanding I don't
>what it does - tell you "NEGATIVE 45 SECONDS TO LAYLINE"? 



Unless you are now fetching, a big lift will move the layline further away, eh?


Tom O'Toole - ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu - JHUVMS system programmer 
Homewood Computing Facilities, Johns Hopkins University, Balto. Md. 21218 
> * OLX 2.1 * ease!Trim!eeeaaaassse!trimtrimTRIMeeeeeeeaaaaaasse!trimea
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Need Marina South of SF
Date: 29 Aug 92 21:29:22 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project

Dave Angelini writes:

	Can anyone in the SF Bay recommend a marina south of SF on the
	peninsula. The closer to Redwood City the better. 

Like Redwood City? RC has four. yes folks, four. The Port itself also
known as "the Municipal". Dockland. Peninsula Marina. Pete's. Peninsula
is the most upscale, followed by the Port, Pete's and Dockland. Dockland
has the South Bay Boat Works (haul outs to 12 tons), and a rather skungy
waterside coffee shop and ramp run by a Biker's wife. Pete's has the
Spinnaker Sailing Club (lessons, rentals), a grease-pit with a great
view, and the rather autocratic Pete Uccello. The Port has Charlie
Brown's and Clark's-by-the-Sea, 10,000 tonners loading salt or powdered
Chevrolets, rather decent side-ties and a slightly officious wharfinger
called Pat O'Brien. Also a very small dockshop run by a half-way decent
Johnson/Evinrude mechanic called Lee. Peninsula has a burger joint and
Al's Boat Supplies, Rick Bishop's Diving outfit (bottom cleaning) and
Mike and his Samoan (?) relatives who run peninsula Canvas. Mike is also
a half-way decent sailmaker for those of us who don't believe that
sail-making is the exclusive province of Lowell North or Sobstadt.

Actually, Dave, with a name like yours you might do very well at Pete's.

Gybe Ho!

Francis Muir
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: dtp1@donner.uucp (80733-patricia)
Subject: Beginner
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 18:42:37 GMT

Hi,
This is my first post to this news
group and, as you will soon discover,
I am totally new to boating.  However,
I have loved boats all my life and have
had a couple of half-hearted attempts
at owning boats back when I was a student
with no money.

I would like to purchase my first boat
and I would just like to have reactions from
any of you experienced people out there to 
this:
From reading this newsgroup for a couple of
weeks I've become discouraged from owning a power
boat.  When I hear stories of automatic oilers
that don't work, improper fittings pulling out
and corroding, greasy water in the bilge,
thin-skinned Bayliners, cranky I/O units,
and a host of other problems, legal and 
mechanical, it scares me off.  I was hoping
to spend more time having fun with my boat than
with fixing it.

So now I am seriously considering a sailboat for
use on large lakes and in bays in the northeast.  
I won't have more than two people to crew it, but
I would like to be able to sleep on board if necessary.
Also, it would need to be trailerable.  Is this what
is known as a daysailer?  Or is that what I would be
known as (in addition to other things).  I intend to
go to school to learn how to sail properly (I'm self-taught)
and how to navigate, etc.   

I have been told that the two happiest days of a boat
owners life are the day he buys his boat and the day
he sells it.  Is this really true?  Is boating just
one long maintenance schedule interspersed with 
moments of joy on the water?    Is it really something
you love to do and is maintaining the boat just part of
it?  Or is it something you love to do and maitaining the
boat is just a time/money consuming drag?  


Any advice or comments out there (other than stay off the
water when you're around).

Thanks

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: zpope@osf.org (William Pope)
Subject: Re: Jib furling systems
Reply-To: zpope@osf.org
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:12:21


In article <1992Sep1.210536.11530@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>
>David Zielke writes:
>
>	Again, the large boat (25' and up) furling systems normally have the
>	headstay inside the extrusion removing the problems of systems which 
>	are run on a seperate wire of their own.
>
>And one of the smallest ones, the Schaeffer 100, good for baots to 19', uses
>the job's own luff wire to revolve around. This is the set-up I'm considering
>for FELIX, my Freedom 21. I intend getting Mike at Peninsula Canvas make the
>sail, and I dare say he'll take it into account that it will be a furling sail.
>A 100 sq ft sail is not a high cost ite; at least not to my specs!
>

I've got a small system on my Stiletto 23 which revolves around the
headstay.  I'll check the manufacturer over the weekend (pretty sure it was
Harken).  This came with a jib that zipped around the headstay as you raised
it.  Gave a very smooth shape but was unpleasant to raise and lower when it
was blowing at all.  It's a racing sail so it was always taken off when not
sailing the next day.  The difficult part was that the halyard got zipped
inside the luff along with the headstay.  I never found a good way to tie it
off at the drum end.

=bill
--
============================================================================
William Z. Pope                                     Phone: +1 (617) 621-8889 
Open Software Foundation                              Fax: +1 (617) 621-0584
11 Cambridge Center                                     Email: zpope@osf.org
Cambridge, MA  02142                             OSF DME Integration Project
From: zintel@mdd.comm.mot.com (Mike Zintel)
Subject: Re: Bayliner Boats
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:12:10 GMT

In article <1992Aug23.044700.29326@km4ba.uucp> alan@km4ba.uucp (Alan Barrow) writes:

[ elitist self-congratulations re Maverick boat ownership deleted ]

>So, it depends on what you are willing to live with. 

Actually, it depends on what you can afford.

>I am sure there are some nice things about bayliners, and some nice 
>people own them. But in Florida, it brands you as rank beginner, and to
>be avoided. (Even worse if the boat is from Miami or Ft Lauderdale. :->  )

Being avoided would reason enough to own a Bayliner.

Bayliners are cheap boats that many folks can afford and enjoy. They 
depreciate fairly quickly and they need attention to trim, fasteners,
controls etc. They don't fall apart and sink. Bayliner owners are a 
large group and probably have no distinguishing characteristics other than
they enjoy boating.
-- 
---
Mike Zintel             zintel@mdd.comm.mot.com not zintel@mdi.com anymore
Motorola Mobile Data
Bothell, WA
From: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Awesome sailing last weekend, huh?
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:18:56 GMT
Reply-To: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Distribution: na
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Annapolis, MD

In rec.boats, dudley@treefort.Corp.Sun.COM (Dudley Gaman) writes:
>Several Right Coasters write:
>
>...[various raves about the wind last weekend removed]...
>
>It's funny you had such good wind last weekend.  Here, in San Francisco
>Bay, the wind was unusually light.  It didn't get over about 25 knots all
>weekend and even rained on Saturday.  I even thought about using my 150%
>genny, but that's for winter sailing.
>

150?  What's a 150?  Oh, you mean our *working* jib.  :-)

-- Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J. Hanners         "My comments; only mine."          *DIASTOLE* 676673
CD, NSWC, Annapolis, MD                              hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: heon@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (garry.j.heon)
Subject: Re: Bayliner myths: a challenge
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:49:42 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.190840.26391@cs.ubc.ca>, goldberg@cs.ubc.ca (Murray W. Goldberg) writes:
> >Very well said.  ......
> [and goes on to say....]
> > ....  I must admit it's [the ferry's] wake is
> > very large (broke an arm of a passenger jumping it myself),
> >
> >* heon@cbnewsg.att.com       Holmdel, NJ *
> 
> Am I the only one who sees an inconsistency here? Hmmmmm..., all this makes 
> me glad I live on the *other* coast (though I suspect we have our share of 
> such "safe boat handlers" here too). I can't think of any situation where
> "jumping" a ferry's wake could be anything short of reckless. Forgive me if
> I judge too quickly or harshly, I just hate to see the potential for harm to
> innocent people.
> 
Potential harm to innocent people?  First, the huge wakes from these 
ferries tend to travel a least a mile before loosing any size.  If you took
a BOATING SAFETY Class you would know the distances wakes travel and that
you are legally responsible for any damage done by your wake.  These
are the same ferries traveling close to 60 mph through
popular fishing areas.  So NO I was not even near the ferry or any
other boat.  I NEVER operate my boat at high speeds or in a dangerous
manor when other boats are in the area! 
        NEVER NEVER NEVER!!!  Get the point. 
Second, any passanger in my boat well realizes what type of boating
I do and the type of danger he or she my place themselves in by
climbing aboard.  They are so well informed that I was once asked
"Do I need to sign a release or something".  If someone has a problem
with being scared, it has happened, I would and did idle back to the
dock.  Some people bungee jump, sky dive, scuba dive with sharks.....whatever.
I perfer to go out in the middle of the ocean and beat the living shit

******************************************
* MY OPINIONS.............AT&T's NETWORK *
*                                        *
* Garry Heon                     AT&T    *
* heon@cbnewsg.att.com       Holmdel, NJ *
******************************************
out of my boat.  Nothing wrong with that, is there????
From: spikes@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Bill Spikes)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Electronics (too much is never enough)
Date: 28 Aug 92 21:05:20 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA

He forgot the shortwave and the most important thing...every boat has to
have one to rui#, uh......complete the set up...a STEREO! Yeah, that helps,
about a 100 watt STEREO. Great boating acces.'s. Then everyone around you
can "enjoy" your music, too.

Bill
 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: rickf@pmafire.inel.gov (Rick Furniss)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 15:30:16 GMT
Organization: WINCO
Subject: Re: Bayliner myths: a challenge 
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: world
Organization: WINCO
Keywords: 

In article <1992Sep1.112931.58547@cc.usu.edu> hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch) writes:
    Stuff deleted:
>Bayliner put up or shut up contest.
>
>rules:
>	past or present Bayliner owner or have personal experience.
>	Be specific, what actually broke, fell off or stopped working?
>		What were the conditions at the time?
>	What feature(s) did you learn to hate?  Why?
>	State year and model.
>
   Currently own a 1984 Ciera 2450 Bayliner Cabin Cruiser.
   Good boat for the dollar. Paid 10.6k used, and feel I got a good deal.
   
   The only things I found I dont like:

(1) The alcohol stove doesnt work worth a damm.  Leaks fluid trying to light
    it , causing flames 3 foot high.  Guess boats arent allowed any type of
    fuel that is heaver than air.  Explosion fears I guess.  Same reason they
    dont have space heat I suppose.

(2) Master battery switch location in motor compartment sucks.  I get pained
    removeing all the crap on the deck to get to it. Most boats are probably
    the same in is area I beleive.

(3) Anchor rope storage area hole.  Where you have to feed a 1/2 inch rope
    down a 3/4 inch hole.  What a pain.

   You will notice that my complaints are with general accessory design, and
not with the boat itself.  All these so-so boat experts may be right about
quality etc, but I am no expert, just a paying user.

   I feel the quality of the boat is average,  price below average, utility
above average.  It is just a plain jane BIG nice pleasure boat for a general
type , off the street pleasure seeker. Its a ford, or Chevy, not a cadillac,
or Porshe.

   I looked for boats over two years, and found nothing in my price range in a
cabin cruiser to fit the bill.  They have the market in this class I think.
  Now for smaller , or larger boats, of differing quality theres more choices,
but for this size (24 ft)  and type theres not much to choose from.

   I always have people who seem inpressed when they see it. They must not 
be experts I guess.

***** standard DISKclamer *****
personal views of my person only

CPSMEL/IA
C210 N3877Y
rickf@pmafire.inel.gov
rickf@servprod.inel.gov

-- 

***** standard DISKclamer *****
personal views of my person only
From: torsten@unisql.UUCP (Torsten Weirich)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Bayliner myths: a challenge
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:59:37 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Sep2.183921.17894@cbfsb.cb.att.com> heon@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (garry.j.heon) writes:

   Bayliner being it, well I've beat the shit out of my 28' Baja powered
   by twin custom 502 cu in engines doing 80 mph for the past 4 years
   and the boat is still as tight as the day I bought it.  This boat has
   spends more time in the air than the water.  As far as

I'm impressed;-)  I hope you do this when noone else is around.  We have
a few jokers around here who attempt to break the sound barrier on a
*very* crowded lake;-(

While we're on the subject of Bayliners.  Even after hearing horror
stories from friends and other dealers, a friend of mine bought a
brand new one about 2 months ago.  It is a nice looking boat with
a Mercruiser 4.3LX/Alpha One drive system.  The FIRST three times
he had it out all his engine oil drained into the bilge.  After
tearing down the moter the third time and replacing all kinds of
seals and gaskets, it was discovered that the real problem was that
someone had neglected to tighten the oil pressure sensor and that
oil was leaking from there.

The question I have is whether this was caused by improper installation
or poor quality control at the Mercruiser factory?

Sure glad it wasn't my boat...

Torsten Weirich

+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| UniSQL                      Cursed by a fortune cookie:       |
| 9380 Research Blvd.         "Your principles mean more to you |
| Kaleido II, Ste. 200         than any money or success."      |
| Austin, TX 78759               ^                              |
| Tel: (512) 343-7297            |                              |
| Fax: (512) 343-7383            +-the story of my life... ;-(  |
| Email: unisql!weirich@cs.utexas.edu                           |
| Disclaimer:  something about "plausible deniability"...       |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (especially the mouth part of the face)
Subject: first SR sighted...
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:44:00 GMT

I think when I buy a keelboat I'll get something reasonably small (so I don't
have to hassle with mega crew, and expensive sails) and something that
can be raced in class. A J-22 or J-24 would seem to fit that bill. One
can pick up a used boat for a song these days, especially if you're willing
to wait for the right one to appear... Then again, I saw a brand new SR 21
(aka SR max) sailing around the course in the inner harbor last night. I
noticed it from a distance and thought: what the hell is that? As we got
closer I was thinking more along the lines of: I want one. This 21 footer
is real fast. The bottom (yeah, it's tender too) is very flat, I'm sure with
a good breeze downwind it's interesting... PHRF rates same as a J-24 here 
(168). It would be interesting to see if this gets revised downward as data
accumulates. This guy wasn't racing last night, just showing off. People have
been talking about the SR's this year, so it was nice to actually see one.

Tom O'Toole - ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu - JHUVMS system programmer 
Homewood Computing Facilities, Johns Hopkins University, Balto. Md. 21218 
> * OLX 2.1 * ease!Trim!eeeaaaassse!trimtrimTRIMeeeeeeeaaaaaasse!trimea
From: billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Courington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Beginner
Date: 1 Sep 92 09:22:48 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: sextant.eng.sun.com

In article 4739@porthos.cc.bellcore.com, dtp1@donner.uucp (80733-patricia) writes:
>So now I am seriously considering a sailboat for
>use on large lakes and in bays in the northeast.  
>I won't have more than two people to crew it, but
>I would like to be able to sleep on board if necessary.
>Also, it would need to be trailerable.  Is this what
>is known as a daysailer?  Or is that what I would be
>known as (in addition to other things).  I intend to
>go to school to learn how to sail properly (I'm self-taught)
>and how to navigate, etc.   
>

The best advice for the first time boat buyer is this:  Find out 
what boats are popular in your area and buy one of them used.  You'll 
likely get a boat that is suited to local conditions, you'll have 
a ready market if you want to sell, you'll have lots of people to 
help you out.  For a first boat you should be happy not to make a 
big mistake.  There's lots of time to find out what you _really_ 
want (which itself is likely to change with time).

BILL COURINGTON