HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: David.Berriman@anu.edu.au (Cyalodin)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: honourifics
Date: 24 Dec 1992 01:31:15 GMT
Organization: The Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.56.5.37

IMO, honourifics represent a distinguished title - in this case it
denotes the rider of a fighting Dragon.  It is used so that a person's
name instantly identifies them with their exulted position (remember
that Dragon riders often have large egos - and this is often justified).

There are always exceptions (human nature) so some people who should
use the honourific don't, while others use it when they are not
entitled (or are given it by their mothers).  It shouldn't be restricted
to any one sex.  I guess that traditionally women didn't ride fighting
Dragons so it was never really considered (old ways die hard).

I think an equivalent kind of title on earth would be "Dr" (whether medical
or PhD).  Some people certainly use it when they shouldn't. 


---------------------------------------------------------------------
         Fantasy murmurs in the beat of a Dragon's wing ...

   _/_/  _/  _/   _/      _/       _/_/    _/_/_/   _/_/_/  _/    _/
 _/       _/_/   _/_/     _/     _/    _/  _/    _/   _/    _/_/  _/
 _/        _/   _/  _/    _/     _/    _/  _/    _/   _/    _/ _/ _/
 _/        _/  _/_/_/_/   _/     _/    _/  _/    _/   _/    _/  _/_/
   _/_/    _/ _/      _/  _/_/_/   _/_/    _/_/_/   _/_/_/  _/    _/

        ... it is the voice that frees the mind to imagine !
=====================================================================
From: chris@keris.demon.co.uk (Chris Croughton)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: (MUSH) Those Wacky Cross-Gender Impressing Dragons
Date: 3 Jan 93 13:47:55 GMT
Organization: Keristor Systems
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)

In article <92Dec31.211441.20346@acs.ucalgary.ca> jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca writes:

>So the Pernese don't pronounce things the way you do: feLAR ->
>F'lar, faNOR -> F'nor, corMIC -> C'mic, mirRIM -> M'rrim,
>feLESsan -> F'lessan. Any brits out there wanna confirm if this
>pronounciation of names is typical for those across the pond?

Not that it's relevant (as Ms. McCaffrey is American, living in
Ireland), but no, the general British tendency is to put the accent on
the first syllable.  In fact, in my experience more American names are
second syllable accented than British (e.g. UK CHRIStine, US ChrisTINE).
The Irish do accent their own names slightly more on the second syllable
(Ir. CollEEN vs. Eng. COLLeen), but it still seems pretty random and
local variations tend to outweigh the overall trends.

FWIW the only Pernese name that I would have stressed on the second
syllable is FeLESSan.  All the others I would stress on the first (as
would the DLG in most cases).

***********************************************************************
*  chris@keris.demon.co.uk      *                                     *
*  chriscr@cix.compulink.co.uk  *  FIAWOL (Filking Is A Way Of Life)  *
*  100014.3217@compuserve.com   *                                     *
***********************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jennifer S Broekman)
Subject: Re: honorifics, MU*s, bronze/gold pairings 
Reply-To: jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jennifer S Broekman)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 02:45:58 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.192513.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> 
rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>A very simple possibility:
>
>When the colonists saw that the metallics had been genetically designed to
>Impress same-sex riders only, they may have assumed that the same was the
>case for all colors, and never even tried offering female candidates.

This doesn't wash for two reasons:
1) Greens are female. The colonists have seen green firelizard lay eggs. If
they assumed that Impressions were to be same-sex, they'd have offered female
Candidates for the greens.
2) If you'll remember, the gold riders were *very* peeved that they couldn't
ride flaming dragons. I *don't* think they were the type to deny their sisters,
daughters, cousins, etc the chance, just because they didn't get it.

-Doriana, rider of Green Tayefeth

   Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully  -- Geoff Marcy
The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. - Alfred Kinsey
		jenneke is: jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
From: chris@keris.demon.co.uk (Chris Croughton)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: Mushy stuff...
Date: 3 Jan 93 13:54:42 GMT
Organization: Keristor Systems
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)

In article <C01GJp.7t9.1@cs.cmu.edu> jtraub+@cs.cmu.edu writes:

>Okay,
>  Chris, thanks for posting Misty's letter.  I didn't post it here, but I
>was aware of it, AND had double checked with Anne to make sure that letter
>didn't change the status of PernMUSH, it doesn't.

Good.  I did *not* want to check directly with Anne, as I'm not a MUSH
official and didn't want to 'blow the whistle' on them...

>However, Anne did set down the dictum which is that PernMUSH MUST follow
>the same rules as are followed by the offline fannish weyrs.  IE _NO_
>colors other than the standard colors of dragons.  _NO_ characters
>from the books.  _NO_ women impressing bronzes and men impressing
>golds.  _YES_ to women impressing other colored dragons.  I believe
>that offline weyrs also allow women to contract their names if they wish
>and as far as MUSH goes, I consider that to be a weyr decision NOT a
>game one.

Thanks for getting her word on this.  I've only had it passed down via
other people who heard 'a long time ago' about Anne's feelings on the
other colors.

Incidentally, I don't know much about the internal organisation of the
MU*s - are you implying that (say) Benden on PernMUSH could use the
honorifics, and Fort not?  I hadn't thought that they were that
independant.  When I said about the offline Weyrs, I was referring to
seperate organisations, which obviously can make their own rules, but I
*thought* that PernMUSH was all one organisation.  I'm interested...

***********************************************************************
*  chris@keris.demon.co.uk      *                                     *
*  chriscr@cix.compulink.co.uk  *  FIAWOL (Filking Is A Way Of Life)  *
*  100014.3217@compuserve.com   *                                     *
***********************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: honorifics, MU*s, bronze/gold pairings 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 03:05:19 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1992Dec22.024558.22048@news.columbia.edu>, jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jennifer S Broekman) writes:
> In article <1992Dec21.192513.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> 
> rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>>A very simple possibility:
>>
>>When the colonists saw that the metallics had been genetically designed to
>>Impress same-sex riders only, they may have assumed that the same was the
>>case for all colors, and never even tried offering female candidates.
> 
> This doesn't wash for two reasons:
> 1) Greens are female.

Duh. Hold on a sec while I patch the hole in my head. That's what I get for
posting without an hour of off-line analysis first.

Another, maybe more hair-brained idea for why women haven't been Impressing
colors for the past 2000 years:

Maybe they did try it early on, but there *was* a genetic code implanted
for males only Impressing colors. After several failures, they gave up
offering females to the lesser dragons. Since that time, a mutation occured.

This has the advantage of explaining why no dragon in 2000+ years has
Impressed a woman, although it was evidently very important to Path (she
sought Mirrim out in the audience, recall). Do you really think that no
dragon in 2000+ years has preferred a woman? After all, the queen candidates
were right there on the Hatching Grounds; why wouldn't an eager green pick
one of them? 

This may also explain why no other dragons have picked females since Mirrim;
perhaps Path was a unique mutation. After all, Pernese women have become
more equal in other ways since then--there are oodles of women in the crafts
in ATWOP. Why wouldn't more women be Impressed, since the Weyrs are the most
progressive in many ways, unless they were *unable* to Impress?

This has the disadvantages of 1. being rather speculative and 2. possibly
throwing a monkey wrench in MU*s that allow women to ride th colors (if
Path is a unique mutation).

Comments?

--Semhaza
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: wigs@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Aaron Wigley)
Subject: Re: Dragon names
Organization: Monash University General Access Unix
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 02:22:09 GMT

Joshua Bell (jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca) wrote:
: Wadsworth	-  [ The Buttler's Dragon ]

Wadsworth was the name of the Buttler in the movie 'Clue', based upon
the boardgame Cluedo. The movie starred Christopher Lloyd, Susan
Sarandon (sp?), and other famed actors.

The Wigs of Oz,
Aaron Wigley

Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern,news.answers
From: jmorrill@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John M Morrill)
Subject: Re: honorifics, MU*s, bronze/gold pairings
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:55:45 GMT

Everything we discuss here is speculative, we have no other choice. I just
finished a long reply where I speculated why golds can not chew firestone and
flame. The *real* reason they can not is that Ann says they can not, my
explaintion is but a mental exercise.

You will not throw a monkey wrench in the MU*s that allow women to ride colors.
The reason that woman ride the colors on MU*s is because the game would not
work otherwise. We can make up any explaination we want, but the fact is, a
good leader on a MU* (be it wizard, craftmaster, etc) when faced with a choice
between what makes the game work better, and what is in the Pern books, will
conveniently ignore the books. This is nothing new, the MU*s have conveniently
ignored AtWoP.

And once the powers that be on the Mu*s have chosen to ignored AtWoP and
other troublesome parts of the books, they can not go running back to
the books to justify decisions such as not giving female character's that
impress the colors honorifics. F'lor and Lessa may have decided that female
riders will not have honorifics, but by the MU*s time period, they have been
dead for 250 - 500 turns. There are new weyrleaders now, it should be their
decision.

I guess for some reason, I feel this need to be flamed, because it occurs to
me that denying honorifics to female riders of the colors is sexist.  You
need these riders to fill the Weyrs, therefore they must be given all rights,
duties, responsibities and privileges given to male riders. No ifs, ands, or
books!


I have no opinion on whether males should be able to impress golds and
 females impress bronzes. I am one of those rare players that preferrs to
play a crafter. I will say that if Ambar is hearing people discuss it
during the hatches, it may be something that should be considered.
PERNMush should not look at their 60+ a night WHO list and believe that
players will always flock there regard of what policies at set.
Popularity is fickle and the mighty do fall.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Strange problems call for strange solutions.
From: jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell)
Subject: Re: So, is it over?
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 16:19:47 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <JSC.92Dec21013551@monolith.mit.edu> jsc@monolith.mit.edu (Jin S Choi) writes:

>Anyway, a few thoughts. Dragonriders are always so careful to avoid
>paradox. Oops, spoiler warning

>There. What would have happened if, when Jancis was scribbling her note
>to Jaxom as the dragons were going crazy on the bridge, she saw him
>arrive, said, Oh, good, and just threw away her note? Or when Aivas
>informed Jaxom that there was evidence that two explosions had already
>occured on the Red Planet, what would have happened if Jaxom just said,
>cool, that means I won't have to go since it's already been done? Just
>once, don't you think *some* dragonrider would let curiosity get the
>better of him and try to shake his own hand, or go visit Admiral Benden?

Its probably part of their philosophy of time travel. It did
happen/will happen. They all seem to be very accepting of their
fates. One theory on time travel (this ought to be crossposted to
rec.arts.startrek.tech :) is that the past will 'heal' itself. If
I go back in time, and, say, kill my grandfather before my parent
is born, then it will turn out that my grandfather wasn't my real
grandfather, or that I killed the wrong man, or that aliens from
another galaxy brought him back to life. I think it can be
demonstrated that the past can always be 'repaired', in one form
or another.

With Pern-specific examples, Jaxom might have shown up when the
Aivas told him the next day about what had happened the day
before. Aivas might have had to tell F'lar to lead Operation:
Overkill. Thankfully, paradox is something Anne tends to avoid
rather well. :)

>Another thing, just what pass is it? I only ask because the books detail
>the Ninth Pass, but some of the MUSHes are set in the Tenth Pass. Do
>they incorporate all the new Aivas-introduced technology?

The first few Pern MUSHes were set 10th pass, before Renegades of
Pern and ATWOP came out. This was generally done so that the
books were all 'common history', which makes things easier to
play than trying to play history, knowing what will happen, what
you can do and what you can't do.

When ATWOP came out, PernMUSH and SouConMUSH decided, with much
public support, to ignore it summarily, as it would screw up the
game completely.

A few MUSHes have tried to go post-AIVAS, but they generally
croaked anyway, like most of the smaller PernMU*s do, and any MU*
will do in time.

Joshua
|         A shimmering net undulating like an infinite borealis.             |
|                                                  - Chapterhouse: Dune      |
|                                                                            |
| jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca  Academic Computing Services, University of Calgary |
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: starhunter@cix.compulink.co.uk (Peter Boulter)
Subject: Re: SF Book Club offering: _Rescue Run_
Reply-To: starhunter@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 23:12:00 +0000


In article <hwtrt##@lynx.unm.edu>, kogoma@triton.unm.edu (Taki Kogoma) writes:-

>It would seem that the long-awaited Pern anthology has not yet been
>published.  The Science Fiction Book Club is offering a volume
>entitled _Rescue Run_, but closer inspection shows that the book is
>merely a hardbound copy of the original _Analog_ novella.  Wildside
>Press is referred to as a publisher.
>

Thanks for the info.  I'll settle for 'Rescue Run' until the anthology
comes out, I missed the printing in Analog. 

Peter.


-------------------------------------------| How to fix any machine:
 *   *    Peter Boulter                    | Use a hammer.
  ***     ---------------------------------| If that fails-
 *   *    starhunter@cix.compulink.co.uk   | Use a bigger hammer!!!
-------------------------------------------| 

Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: jmoulton@mothra.syr.EDU (Ana Ng)
Subject: Offline Fandom Weyrs
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 20:38:49 EST

I just have a quick question. I've heard a few bits here and there about the
offline Fandom Weyrs, and even seen listings in the FAQ of them. What 
exactly do these groups do, and how are they started and run? I'd be interested
in any information anyone can give me about them.
Thanks a lot. :)

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
  Jennifer Moulton                         -=(SnailMail: 125 Clarendon Street
   College of Visual and Performing Arts                 Syracuse, NY,  13210
    Syracuse University                    
                                            -=(E-mail: jmoulton@mailbox.syr.edu
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: ladyk@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Catarina Ang)
Subject: Re:signatures 
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
	
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 01:55:12 GMT

-----
	Lady K
 A ripple of laughter drifts to your ears ... and is cut off abruptly as
the door to the Ivory Tower slams shut.
-----
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu (James H. Kiley)
Subject: Re: (MUSH) Those Wacky Cross-Gender Impressing Dragons
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 17:33:55 GMT

tyrie@lynx.cs.washington.edu (Tyrie Grubic) writes:

>thread.  Even if Mirrim's name wasn't contracted, if you're yelling something
>quickly, I assume her name was often slurred to M'rrim during flight, even
>if it was Mirrim on the ground.  Thus to me, as time goes on, it seems likely
>that female riders of fighting dragons would have adopted the honorific.

	...it occurs to me, actually, that the contractions in names as they're
set up is frankly wrong.  Case in point:  Cormic impresses bronze Lironth
and becomes C'mic.  But try shouting the name 'Cormic' sometime.  What comes 
out, if you're pronouncing it like I do :), is CORmic.  Corm'c or the like
would be the natural contraction.  Mirrim-->MIRrim-->Mir'm, at least if you
pronounce it like I do.
From: morpheus@cco.caltech.edu (Kynn Bartlett)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: honorifics, MU*s, bronze/gold pairings
Date: 21 Dec 1992 19:55:00 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: coil.caltech.edu

In article <724869966snz@keris.demon.co.uk> chris@keris.demon.co.uk (Chris Croughton) writes:
>In article <1gsvomINN8e2@gap.caltech.edu> morpheus@cco.caltech.edu writes:
>>Well, then, not even using it to justify golds for males and bronzes for
>>females, what reason -do- you claim for letting females impress browns
>>and blues, as is regularly done on PernMUSH?
>>I see absolutely no textual support for this practice.  There is one
>>(1) example of a female impressing a _green_ dragon.  We -never- see
>>a female impressing a brown or blue.
>>Be careful in your arguments; it's likely that the same things you say
>>on this subject could be used to justify female/bronze or male/gold
>>pairings.

>IMO the real reason is because Anne said so!  I don't know about the
>MU*s, but certainly to the offline fannish Weyrs she has been very clear
>that the gold/female and bronze/male pairings are absolute, whereas
>there is no gender discrimination for brown/blue/green.

When/where/what?  I've -never- seen anything from Anne saying "females
can ride browns, but they can't ride bronzes" or something to that
effect.

     ___________                                             ___________
     |         |             M A L A C H I T E               |         |
     |   '"'   |                                             |   '"'   |
     |  '"""'  |                 Brum Hold                   |  '"""'  |
     |  """""  |                                             |  """""  |
      \'"""""'/           morpheus@cco.caltech.edu            \'"""""'/
       \_____/   "Yo he yo!"                 "Rice is Nice!"   \_____/
From: mccall@Oswego.EDU (D. Todd Mccall)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: So, is it over?
Date: 22 Dec 92 14:36:37 GMT
Reply-To: mccall@oswego.Oswego.EDU (D. Todd Mccall)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Instructional Computing Center, SUNY at Oswego, Oswego, NY

In article <JSC.92Dec21013551@monolith.mit.edu> jsc@monolith.mit.edu (Jin S Choi) writes:
>
>
 [lots of stuff deleted]
>Another thing, just what pass is it? I only ask because the books detail
>the Ninth Pass, but some of the MUSHes are set in the Tenth Pass. Do
>they incorporate all the new Aivas-introduced technology?
>
 Most MU* ignore the existence of ATWoP entirely, effectively AIVAS was 
 found, but was non-operational. Therefore, none of the Aivas technology
 was ever introduced. (This applies only to the MU* I'm familiar with
 ... PernMUSH,SouthCon, and TimeMUSE(Telgar Weyr). On the last I think its
 true but I could be wrong). I could be over-simplifying...anyone care to
 correct? 

   -Jalnar/PernMUSH Smith CraftSecond


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|D.Todd McCall                  \  The best laid plans of mice and men       |
|---mccall@oswego.oswego.edu    \                                            |
|                               \                                            |
|State University of New York   \  are worth about the same                  |
|                               \                                            |
|College at Oswego		\  in the final analysis       		     |
|____________________________________________________________________________|
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Tuesday, 29 Dec 1992 23:07:15 EST
From: AMIGA <344RPBT@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: for sale complete set

I have a complete set of all the books I would like to sell
(i'm running out of shelf space)
They include all the old books including the new ones just out like
the people of pern, the atlas of pern, the dragonlover guide to pern...
All are in great shape. (you probably couldn't even tell they have been read)
I'll take offers
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: kogoma@vesta.unm.edu (Taki Kogoma)
Subject: Re: Another Pern book
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 22:28:10 GMT
Organization: Nit-Pickers for a Better Tomorow Afternoon

In article <1992Dec16.031823.15468@spuddy.uucp> afra@spuddy.uucp (Phillip Harvey-Smith) writes:
>Well when I last mailed Anne, she said in response to one of my questions
>that I'd find out the answer in the *NEXT* Pern book ! Lets hope it is
>soon !

Ug!  Why do authors feel the need to link *every* work into one
universe?

Oh well, I'll reserve judgement until I read it...if it actually
happens.


-- 
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk  (Known to some as Taki Kogoma)  kogoma@vesta.unm.edu
 I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to
                          what I have now...
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: scarrobi@shearson.com (Steve Carrobis)
Subject: Re: Dragon names
Reply-To: scarrobi@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:09:13 GMT

no because these threads to become immune to the zebedees... developed an antibody 
called . zippidydoodas... 
---
Steve C. 

 ==> A wise man once told me - There ARE NO Wise Men !
                             - Just fools who think they are.
---------------------------------------------------------------		
 I understand you need someone to do work.
 I don't do work, but, I know this guy who does.
    -Vladimir Taltos
---------------------------------------------------------------

   	


Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern