HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido, (effectiveness)
Keywords: wristlocks
Date: 17 Aug 1992 16:00:12 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1801@celia.UUCP> celia!neil@usc.edu (Neil Richmond) writes:
>Excuse me, but this is not true. I have found that it is extremely difficult 
>to " trick " an experienced Aikidoka. There is no magic here, you can lead
>any mind, if you are experienced enough. It becomes harder to be lead with
>the more experience you have. This is true regardless of who is doing the

	See if you agree with this:

	Even an experienced aikidoka tends to give up her balance much
more than is neccesary when grabbing or striking.  I believe that to
be because they don't concentrate on grabbing or striking, but rather
on responses to those attacks.  This is not a problem for a judoka,
since they learn grabbing at the same time as they learn throwing.

	Even an experienced aikidoka tends to forget that I don't
neccesarily _have_ to "lead your mind", or lead any part of you, to
get your balance.   Take koshi-nage (aikidoka for "hip throw" :-).  I
don't _need_ to lead your balance out and gently tip you over.  I can throw
you with leverage, by using my upper thigh or even my ankle as a fulcrum.
Your boldy upright aikido posture actually makes this easier...
(To translate for the judo folks: they do hip throws as hand techniques,
and use their hip more to block uke's movement to safety than as some-
thing to roll or pull uke over.  If they don't feel that "lead", that
energy or guidance from the hands, they feel perfectly safe but can easily
be thrown with ashi-garuma or o-garuma or harai or... :-).  

	OK?  That's all I meant.  That because of their unique style
of training, an aikidoka tends to give up more on their attacks, and 
to feel unrealistically secure in certain defensive modes.  And that
judoka and wrestlers make lousy aikido ukes because certain reflexes
that they've built up make it difficult for certain aikido techniques
to work prettily.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: glo@dvlseq.us.oracle.com (George Lo)
Subject: Re: Diff. betweeREAD/NEWn Eastern and Western thought
Organization: Oracle World HQ, Redwood Shores, California
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:37:42 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Aug10.224436.25994@psych.psy.uq.oz.au> jonathan@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Jonathan Dwyer) writes:
>In article <1992Aug10.123937.23744@srg.srg.af.mil>, dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552) writes:
>|> In article <4495@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> sdbst5@gl.pitt.edu (Stephen D Brener) writes:
>|> >
>|> >ALL GENERALIZATIONS ARE BAD!
>|> 
>|> Umm, Steve, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but...
>
>Butwhat!?!?!  Such a thing is _always_ true :-)
>
>Jon

For those who doesn't understand what Dave said, I bet he meant
All GENERALIZATIONS ARE BAD is also a generalization and so Stephen
's statement is contradictory and thefore it couldn't be true.

George


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: CA.FER@forsythe.stanford.edu (Jennifer Gates)
Subject: Re: Seeing Ki, Aikido
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:01:45 GMT

David etc..

>>>I had the feeling the Nadeau really "sees" ki and moves/teaches based
>>  If I were you, I would like to find out if he really claims to "see
>>ki" and what exactly he thinks ki is.  Is has been my experience that
>>many of these people really do recognize ki for what it is -- a synergy
>>of muscle motion and not a mystical force.
>
>heh heh heh
>
>At the risk of resuming the currently dormant 'Chi War' thread, I'd say
>there are plenty of people out there who are prepared to disagree with
>you. There are also many who subscribe to the same theory that you do,
>but don't you think you are stating your case a little strongly? Also, I
>didn't get the impression from Len that Mr. Nadeau states that he sees
>Chi, rather that Len had the impression that he does. Perhaps Len is
>making good progress himself?
>
I was at one of Bob Nadeau's classes at the Aikido Summer Camp in
San Rafael where he was asking his uke's to describe what the ki of
a throw "looked like" to them.... They would describe things like
it "had a low ceiling that pulled me under" etc. These were usually
done with throws where Bob did not touch the uke... I just thought
that I would report my experiences. Bob is very interested in
teaching the "Aikido which can not be seen".

Just a report on my experience. Yes, Bob Nadeau is very impressive.

Fer
From: marcogan@student.anu.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Non-competitive MA (WAS:Re: The Christian MA)
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:10:19 GMT
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University

In article <34255@cbmvax.commodore.com>, kominetz@cbmvax.commodore.com
(John Kominetz - CATS) wrote:
> AND NOW, FOR A SMALL DEGREE OF R.M-A CONTENT:
> 
> Aikido does not have sparring or tournaments, and we actively work at
> getting away from "goal" and "prize" orientation.  What other martial
> arts work from this premise?  I can't imagine eskrima sparring or
> ninjustu tournaments, but my exposure to other arts is limited to 
> watching some TaeKwonDo and working with a Gojo-Ryu blackbelt who is
> also studying aikido. 

The Kung-Fu style I practice has no tounamants, and sparring is considered
useful only for conditioning purposes. We have a very informal ranking
system, which everybody pretty well ignores. What we attempt to do is to
train ourselves to be (among other things) effective, ethical fighters,
able to defend ourselves and the people around us in as humane a manner as
the situation dictates. We are not a sporting organization, and so do not
strive for excellenec as athletes, or for victory, or prizes. The closest
we come to a tournamants are our red-sash gradings, held very infrequently
(we had the first one in five years a few months ago), where all the
applicatnts will fight with one another. No victor is declared; it is a
test of spirit, technique, and stamina. 

I also do Taiji. We don't even spar in that.

Mark Cogan.

marcogan@student.anu.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: quixote@cix.compulink.co.uk (Aurelio Barranco)
Subject: Re: The rat, MA, and others
Reply-To: quixote@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:31:00 +0000


> 
> So, I *have* "run into a surprise city rat", and ya know what?
> It was not my first instinct to kill him, strike him, run from him, 


I must admit that I can see why Stephen did what he did, and given
the same circumstances I would probably react in a similar manner.
The circumstances that you describe for your encounter are somewhat
different to Stephens. Implying he is some kind of monster from this
isolated event is not really valid, the rest of the time he may very
well rescue poor dogs and free birds from traps.

                Aurelio
Aurelio
From: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Wing Chun style...help!
Date: 14 Aug 92 20:18:54 GMT
Reply-To: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

In article <1992Aug13.215145.21512@uwm.edu> ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty) writes:
>poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) says:
>>significant slowdown developing medium and long range skills. (At least
>>at the school I studied at)
>Actually, Wing Chun deals with all three ranges, but chooses to do most of it's
>fighting in the middle and short distances.  Reason being, beacuse

Yes, the material I learned at this school had various medium and long
range principles and techniques included, but unfortunately this aspect
of training was largely ignored. I think when a 10 year student is
uncomfortable at long range, there is a problem. I also tend to think
that one should be able to operate at long range without necessarily
using it only as an oportunity to close the gap.

>the longer distances are felt to be unnecessary when WC principles
>are applied correctly.  So far, I have satisfactorily seen it proven.
>Long distance is a time for closing the gap by using the Wing Chun

This is the pretty standard line on long range fighting in WC. However,
I'm not sure it is entirely true, and I tend to find it rather limiting.
There are circumstances when it might be to your advantage to stay at
a longer range. 

>Depends what your defintion of grappling is.  Infighting itself is
>many times considered grappling by definition.  I can definately say

I should have been more specific. I'm speaking primarily of throwing
techniques. Trapping skills are well developed in this art, and I agree
that point techniques and (to a lesser extent) joint-locks can be worked
in pretty easily. 

A related subject, to open this up to other folks...

From my current perspective, it looks as if most throwing techniques are
inherently circular in nature. Comments? Counter-examples? If so, and if
your style tends to be rather linear in nature, what role do throwing
techniques occupy in your system?

David Poore
poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Subject: Re: Biting in the MA's?  WAS Re: Gay martial artists
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:04:30 GMT

In article <1992Aug8.171607.2720@mtroyal.ab.ca> sboland@mtroyal.ab.ca (Steve Boland) writes:
>>... 
>> I heard a rumor/Urban Legend about a MA that mainly stresses grappling
>> and close-quarters infighting.  There was some mention made of several
>> different biting techniques that were taught.

>Was it Gum Foo? :-))

No, Wing Chomp.  (Or was it Chewdo?)

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@ttidca.tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@ttidca.tti.com to you!)
{philabs,psivax,pyramid,quad1,rdlvax,retix,rutgers}!ttidca!reid
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
From: natalies@hplsla.hp.com (Natalie Schuchard)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:04:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Rats and Martial Arts
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

>/ hplsla:rec.martial-arts / lauren@bushmill.eecs.umich.edu (Brian T. Murray) /  7:53 am  Aug 20, 1992 /
>In article <1992Aug19.203024.29488@sei.cmu.edu>, Peter Capell writes:
>
><snip>
>
>It sounds like the students were similar to most "typical Christians"
>and Sri Yukteswar is like many Christian saints.  All religions have
>their saints, mystics, prophets, etc.  However, very few people live
>up to the ideals of their religion.
>
While I was in Nepal and Thailand, I watched everyday as the monks
came out to receive their daily meal from the local people, and 
how every local person I met seemd to have a Buddhist "shrine" in
thier house and business. These people seem to live their 
religion/philosphy everyday. IMO
><snip>
>
  >I have a question.  Are the principles
>of conflict avoidance/resolution (which is a legitimate field of
>study) taught (semi-)formally in anyone's doj*?
>
Our Shihan ocasionaly drops perls of wisdom about conflict, self-
confidance, stupid things he or others have done, so you won't
do them, type things, usally very informaly during or after class.


Nate
_____________________________________________________________________________
|                                                                            |
| Natalie Schuchard aka: Nate   mail stop : 270                              |
| HP - LSID                          at&t : (206) 335-2929                   |
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 Eagles may soar, but weasles don't get sucked into jet engines.
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Help ! Need feet of DEATH !
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:11:51 GMT
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: ddewar@cbnewsb.cb.att.com's message of 18 Aug 92 07:58:56 GMT


In article <1992Aug18.075856.24206@cbfsb.cb.att.com> ddewar@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (derek.a.dewar) writes:

   >(Dakin Burdick) writes...
   >>In shane@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Shane Brown) writes:
   >>>   Why do I ask ? Because I am sick of losing my voice screaming
   >>>when I let rip with a roundhouse in sparring, only to feel the
   >>>top of my foot connect with the point of my partners elbow. AAARRGG !

   Just wear some good instep protectors. YOu may still hit some elbows,
   but you won't get as bad bruising. Getting knocks like that, usually 
   makes the person work harder at making their kicking more accurate.

   Del.

*sigh* I was hoping to avoid telling this story in public, because it's
so damn embarrassing...but here goes.

Instep protectors will reduce trauma somewhat, but they don't guarantee
that you won't get hurt.  Never mind bruising -- I BROKE my foot kicking 
an elbow, and I was wearing both instep protectors and foam boots at the
time. 

I'm very talented.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH
From: shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: The rat, MA, and others
Date: 17 Aug 1992 15:59:15 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: merlin.think.com

In article <1992Aug17.133759.11439@relay.nswc.navy.mil>, snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) writes:
|> Hope you find humor, perhaps even insight in this :-)  Yes its true.
|> 
|> Sat. night, I was sitting in a doorway downtown just out of the rain,
|> greeting people.  A rat runs out of the storm drain right towards me.
|> I see him, jump up and try to soccer style *plant left-kick right*
|> boot him into the street.  Rat does a 180, zips back into the storm
|> drain, with me on his heels.  EVERYBODY else goes, what was that!! 
|> ===================================================================

When do you plan on telling us about your latest exploits pulling
wings off flies?  What style of grab do you use for such motions?
How do the flies react?

	--Shai

P.S. Do you also train on dust motes?
From: gatenbyn@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Neil Gatenby)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Headlock escape for non-vampires (was Re: Biting in the MA's?)
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:20:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug10.163813.13864@cpqhou.compaq.com>, pipkinsj@cpqhou.compaq.com (Jeff Pipkins ) writes:
 > Let's assume that the opponent is standing and has you in a headlock
 > on his right side, using one or both hands.  Every escape technique
 > should be preceded by an attention-getter of some kind to focus the
 > attention away from your task.  Even in this awkward position, there
 > are many targets you can reach!

Just my $0:02...

	Seems to me an important first might be to stop them hitting you
	with their left hand - which is presumably their intention ("I'll
	just grab this guy/gal's head and pummel it 'til I'm bored" sort
	of thing).  This can be achieved fairly effectively by putting your
	left arm STRAIGHT out behind their back and stopping the arm at the
	elbow, as (or before) they go to hit you.  Important to block, then
	grab - just trying to grab you might miss.

	After that I've practised two techniques:

	1) Still holding their L-arm with my L-arm...R-Hammer fist to
	   groin... grab their R-leg (low) with your R-hand as you move your
	   L-foot in front of their L-foot...shove them over your L-foot as
	   you pull the R-leg....kick in groin (exposed by you holding the leg
	   up)

	2) Still holding their L-arm with my L-arm...R-Hammer fist to
           groin... switch grip on L-arm so Im now holding it across their
	   front - their L-wrist in my R-hand....grab hair with my L-hand (from
	   behind...pull...R-knife hand to exposed L-carotid artery...
	   R-Hammerfist to sternum to take them down...hit em some more on the
	   ground!!!

	I also think that most of the other suggestions I read seemed pretty
	sensible.

	Neil

	   Neil Gatenby			|   The views expressed here could
      Computer Graphics Unit		|   easily represent the views of
  Univ of Manchester, Manchester	|   my employers -- I haven't been
	M13 9PL, England		|   so ridiculous as to ask them...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Email: gatenby@uk.ac.mcc.cgu.v2  Tel: (+44)61 275 6095  Fax: (+44)61 275 6040
	      Strive to Survive, Causing Least Suffering Possible
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: rtang@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (The One Your Mother Warned You About!)
Subject: Re: re: Shaolin Temple news.
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 04:08:25 GMT

In article <9208172140.AA10170@adelphi-assb01.army.mil> @adelphi-msc.army.mil:chang@assb01 writes:
>        Here's something that some monks (those who specialize in it) can
>do that is definitely not wushu.  There's a skill they can pull logs and 
>lift rocks with their, <warning painful to male readers> testicles.  The
>martial benefit of this traing is render that area invulnerable to attack.
>(Ow, I'm still in pain).
Just one question, HOW THE HECK do you lift ANYTHING
with your testicles? There arent any muscles there?!

Confused,
RT
From: ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman)
Subject: Re: Can anyone be a Black Belt?
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 14:12:03 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1992Aug12.152258.18293@math.okstate.edu> hoff@fasic5.tmc.edu (Jim Hoff) writes:
|Hello,
|	I just thought I'd put this question to the group.  A while back,
|I got into a rather heated argument with other senior members of my (then)
|doj*.  I asked them if anyone who came through their doors could eventually
|become a black belt.  There answer was that as long as anyone came regularly,
|paid his dues, and paid for testing, that person, regardless of whether or
|not he could walk and chew gum at the same time, would get his (or her) 
|black belt.

Gak!

|                                    I think that if some teacher comes 
|across a student so dedicated as to continue regardless of his lack of ability,
|that teacher should pull that student aside and say,"You truly have what it
|takes to become a martial artist, but I don't think that this is the art for
|you.  Have you considered, some other art?"  I think that dedication could
|carry a student very far in an art, but in order to be a black belt in
|an art, you must be very good at that art or you cheapen the meaning of 
|Black Belt.
|	Comments?  Similar experiences?

Hm.  I don't know about that.  Unless the student has a bad heart and
needs CPR every time he exerts himself or is otherwise seriously unable
to study a given martial art, it sould be possible to adapt tecniques
to what he can do.  There used to be a student with a knee problem at
my dojo who couldn't make a low stance.  That's OK, only we study Shoto-
kan Karate.  So he made high stances.  Hey, if you've already got
great stamina and superhuman strength and the ability to hop over tall
buildings in a single bound there isn't much that a martial art can
give you -- you're already Superman and if there are no challenges to
overcome, mental-type training will be hard to get as well.

Not to say that anyone who's been around for X years and paid Y bucks
should get Z-dan, of course, but isn't overcoming your own limitations
the great joy of studying a martial art?

|
|					Jim Hoff

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  ftit@engin.umich.edu   |   "... a stainless steel rat in the       |
|    (Sergej Roytman)     |  ferroconcrete wainscoting of Internet"   |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Say no to four-line .sigs.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552)
Subject: Re: re: Shaolin Temple news.
Organization: just me
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 12:28:12 GMT
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts

In article <Bt5vI2.4nM@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> rtang@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (The One Your Mother Warned You About!) writes:
>In article <9208172140.AA10170@adelphi-assb01.army.mil> @adelphi-msc.army.mil:chang@assb01 writes:
>>        Here's something that some monks (those who specialize in it) can
>>do that is definitely not wushu.  There's a skill they can pull logs and 
>>lift rocks with their, <warning painful to male readers> testicles.  The
>>martial benefit of this traing is render that area invulnerable to attack.
>>(Ow, I'm still in pain).
>Just one question, HOW THE HECK do you lift ANYTHING
>with your testicles? There arent any muscles there?!
>
>Confused,
>RT

There are after you do it for the first time (oof!)...

	David Pipes

And I bet you never thought 10 pound squat lifts would be impressive.
robear@digex.com
From: neil@celia.UUCP (Neil Richmond)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Hips in aikido
Keywords: wristlocks
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:01:27 GMT
Reply-To: celia!neil@usc.edu (Neil Richmond)
Organization: Rhythm & Hues, Inc., Hollywood

In article <3464@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
 
>	Here's a question:  Your opponent enters strongly so that the left
>side of his chest is touching the right side of yours.  Your hips are parallel
>and may also be touching.  Your posture and balance remain strong, centered,
>and unbroken.  Do you feel safe?  Why or why not?  

This is not a simple question to answer because I don't know the circumstances
leading up to this scenario. However, I will answer it as best as I can. Do I
feel safe? No. For a person to be this close is a dangerous situation. One, He 
has entered inside my sphere which is aproximately a volume about an arm's dis-
tance around me. Two, we have a conflict of forces here. I would have preferred
to have entered to his to his right as he was entering to right, like a yin-
yang. If he were trying to grab me I would cut that leading hand to me knee and
enter his right side with my other hand. Now, I would feel safer. This has 
changed a conflicting situation to one of harmony.

neil
-- 
Only 2691 shopping days left till the next millenium! 
Neil F. Richmond         INTERNET: celia!neil@usc.edu
Rhythm & Hues Inc.       UUCP: ...{ames,hplabs}!lll-tis!celia!neil)
From: twcaps@tennyson.lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: What is Sticky Hands (was Re: Wing Chun style...help!)
Date: 19 Aug 1992 18:56:02 GMT
Organization: Department of Redundancy Department
Reply-To: TWChan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.117

ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty) writes:
  +
  +Well, that's the usuall "I don't believe in Classical Wing Chun"
  +approach.  I'm under William Cheung's organization.  It's
  +(Classical Wing Chun) been proven, he did defeat Leung Ting
  +and a few other notable Wing Chun people in a challenge match,
  +they all signed a document attesting to this, which WAS published.
  +This was in the late 70's -early 80's.  Many people have forgotten
  +about it.  It's over with.  He, as are many others, are just interested
  +in bringing about a unity and common respect in the Wing Chun familly.
  +Let's just leave it at that before this turns into a big flame war
  +that neither person will win.  We're not William Cheung, or Leung Ting,
  +or any of the others.  It's between them.

Do you have a reference as to where this document may be checked
out?  I haven't heard of it, which means diddley/squat of course,
but am somewhat curious.

Terry Chan
--
Internet:  TWChan@lbl.gov	       Next to being witty yourself, the best 
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory               thing is to quote another's wit.
Berkeley, California  USA  94720                        -- er, I forget who