HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tomscud@ruf.rice.edu (Thomas Reid Scudder)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Resurrection in HERO (was Re: Permenant damage in HERO)
Date: 9 Sep 1992 19:59:23 GMT
Organization: Rice University

In article <1992Sep9.092745.58732@cc.usu.edu> slb3y@cc.usu.edu (Punk Rocketeer) writes:
>     What do all you Hero gamers think?  To me, resurrection is not
>genre for superheroes, Jean Grey to the contrary.  Superheroes die
>seldom enough that it generally turns out to be a major event.  (Which
>this one was supposed to be, anyway.  The player with the now-vampire
>was moving away, leaving the campaign for good, so we gave him a
>sendoff.)  Opinions on resurrecting metahumans, anyone?
If you think you may want one back, LOSE THE BODY...
Alternately, you can do brain transplants, or let vengeful spirits come back...
In any case, ressurection should NOT be a simple thing which doesnt change
anything for the hero.  (Think of it as a drastic radiation accident.)

Tom Scudder
tomscud@ruf.rice.edu
From: v076jy2p@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Cosmo Of The Cosmos)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Resurrection in HERO (was Re: Permenant damage in HERO)
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:29:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

>     What do all you Hero gamers think?  To me, resurrection is not
>genre for superheroes, Jean Grey to the contrary.  Superheroes die
>seldom enough that it generally turns out to be a major event.  (Which
>this one was supposed to be, anyway.  The player with the now-vampire
>was moving away, leaving the campaign for good, so we gave him a
>sendoff.)  Opinions on resurrecting metahumans, anyone?

Hummm...

I just happen to have my Hero System book right here...


Let's see...

	Resurrection

	(9)	1d6 Transform dead into Living being (Cure by Killing)
			End: 2
		-Cumulative +1/2
		-No range -1/2
		-Concentration, 0 DCV (act) -1/2
		-Full Phase (act) -1/2


Hummm... 9 points, eh?

[Flip. Flip. Flip.]

Ah-ha!

"A second group of powers have the ability to substantialy alter a GM's story-
 line.  For example, charaters with time travel or N-ray vision may easily
 solve a mystery that would stump charaters without these powers.  Powers
 that can radically alter a scenario have been marked with a:

				STOP!"

Let's look at Transform.

[Flip. Flip. Flip.]


Looky here! A 'STOP!' next to transform.  I guess the idea gets a big

				NOT!
from me folks.


As for an idea for an charater that's hard to kill, if the PC really wants
to be able to jump back from the dead.

First:  Yell "MUNCHKIN!" in his face.  Then say, "Sorry, reflex."

Second: Resurrection (for a 250 pt charater)
	(50)	Multiform (copy)
		-Trigger (when dead)+1/4
		
Third:  Have the player create a 200 point version of his charater
	(Resurrection takes something outta ya.)

Fourth: Resurection (for a 200 pt charater)
	(40)	Multiform (Copy)
		-Trigger (When dead) +1/4

Fifth:  Have the player make himself up as a 160 point charater

etc.  Until he's coming back as a norm.

DO NOT allow the player to put any limitaions on the power!
I can think of about 7 limitations I can put on it to get the cost down
by a tenth!  You'll never be able to get rid of him!

(But hey, could be funny!  "Charge!" *BLAM* "Charge!" *BLAM* "Charge!")



						-C.Q.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows)
Subject: Re: Supplements for Multiple Systems
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 92 04:29:29 GMT


I understand that there was a THIEVES' WORLD game supplement put out a
while back that was supposedly compatible with several different gaming
systems...

---Chris Meadows
From: v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Foto...Taking pictures again, and Happy for it!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re:  Improvisation
Date: 6 Sep 92 23:30:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Patrick,

   So you are still dungeon crawling, so what?  Are you having fun?  Are your
players??  Are they complaining?  Are *you* complaining?  I really do not know
what started this whole thread but the main point is that you AND (let me
repeat that because it is important *AND*) your players are having fun.  So
your style is different from my style and my style is different from the
ALmighty Favod's.  That is the way life is...

Skeksis - Let me get this straight.  I'm driving a 91 Geo and he's driving a 93
Vette and you want me to drag?  What are you, some kind of optimist?
From: alumn122@whscdp.whs.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Twilight:  2000  1st ed. vs. 2nd ed.
Date: 15 Sep 92 00:34:34 CST
Organization: Washington HS, Milwaukee, WI

> 	I'm another person who has played 1st edition and now owns the 2cd.
> 	I've never owned 1st edition so there is a chance that some of my
> 	thoughts on it were caused by house rules.

We came up with some of the best house rules.
 
> 	Contrary to most people, I do not prefer the newer character generation
> 	system.  The old system had serious problems but I liked the idea
> 	of getting points to spend in broad areas (military, edu, background)
> 	much more then I like the career path idea.

It is much more realistic, but you are correct.  You can get more skills 
and stay younger in 1st edition.  Youth has it's privileges.

> 	With the new system I have found that I need to tinker with what is
> 	available as background skills, leisure skills, and career skills
> 	(for many of the careers) to fit my view of the world.  Additionally,
> 	breaking everything into 4 year terms leads to some odd effect, not
> 	the least of which is that all players are 25 or older.

That is a major fault, but in my games Instruction is considered a 
free skill and anyone can be taught anything given enough time and
materials...  And you don't need AP points (or Twilight 2000 equivalent).

> 	Other then character generation I think 2cd edition is a big 
> 	improvement.  Its one book, nicely edited and produced, and 
> 	the changes in mechanics have improved things in my mind.  I'm 
> 	trying to come up with a new character generation system combining
> 	features of both but I'd recommend 2cd with no reservations.

The real advantages to 2nd edition:  Better and more weapons, bursting
rules, maps, copyable clip sheets, and the expansion of stuff:
-> rules for boats, jets, airplanes, etc. 
-- 
                                                  _____
Who else is still waiting for "Naked Gun Part (Pi) | |  "

''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/
'/''/'Nathan'Narloch''/''/''/'"Alumn122@whscdp.whs.edu"/''/''/''/'
/''/'(Enforcer Burp)'/''/''/''or'/'"NARLOCHN@KIRK.MSOE.EDU"'/''/''
''/''/Milw, WI 53207/''/'"Join'the'Official'Psycho/Team..."/''/''/
'/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/'
From: quirk@pioneer.unm.edu (Gym Z. Quirk)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: My post about r.g.frp.* and sf games
Date: 16 Sep 92 01:25:37 GMT
Organization: Nit-Pickers for a Better Tomorow Afternoon

In article <92259.140923JLM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> JLM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes:
>In article <14SEP199220212869@rosie.uh.edu>, lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark
>Blandino) says:
>>Now, for a side note.  This is the rude-est board I have seen.
>                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>I don't intend this to be flaming, just a statement of fact.
>>I can't even "breathe" on this board without someone screaming
>>in my face.  Tell me, when you try to teach games to a non-gamer,
>>do you do this routine?  When you try to explain that gaming is
>>not Satanic to a Xtian, do you do this routine?  (etc. with the
>>examples)  Jheez, people, no wonder the fundies are breathing
>>down our necks!
>
> You have obviously not read many USENET newsgroups.  On the
>net, rudeness is the operant mode of behaviour !

*grin*

As I've been saying for years, Usenet brings out the asshole in
everybody eventually. ;-)

As for the reasoning behind the reaction to this specific proposal...

Rec.games.frp.* (formerly just rec.games.frp) has a long history of
strong personalities and vehment personality conflicts.  The
'Veterans' have managed to work out a (mostlly) satisfactory state of
affairs where it is generally 'understood' how things are supposed to
work.

Liken the situation to a small town.  The citizens may not all like
one another, but they manage to get along all right.

Along comes some young upstart (read 'newbie') who proposes things
that "Just aren't done 'round here."  It doesn't matter if the
proposals are good/bad/indifferent - although the arguments against
these things have been honed down to a few succinct (and blunt)
statements.  The reaction of the 'natives' to the 'foreigner' is, alas
predictable.  The newbie hears lots of rude talk...especially if he
shows no understanding of the community and its 'unwritten rules' (and
particularly if he ignores the written ones).

I've seen this sort of reaction in almost every large discussion group
I read.  What this says about human nature is left as an excercise for
the reader.

>-- Jose L. Martinez --


-- 
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk  (Known to some as Taki Kogoma)  quirk@pioneer.unm.edu
 I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to
                          what I have now...
From: ward1@husc8.harvard.edu (Lester Ward)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SR: Ruthenium(?) Swords
Date: 14 Sep 92 02:01:24 GMT

ins769v@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (Veltyen) writes:
>**PS It makes no sense to have plasma in the process of dikoting.

Very little sense is involved with Dikote(tm) in any context.
Glass is harder than steel (mohs 7, steel mohs = 5)
Therfore coating weapons with glass will make them very deadly.
Not.

Wordman
From: alumn122@whscdp.whs.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: 40mm grenades (was Re: Let's talk REAL..)
Date: 15 Sep 92 22:21:23 GMT
Organization: Washington HS, Milwaukee, WI

> Now, I think the A-10 has a 40mm grenade laucher that it would undoubtedly
> use against armor, but I think the RoF would be much higher and the rounds
> would be designed for that application. But that is a different thread.

The A-10 Thunderbolt has a GAU-8 30mmG Gatling auto-cannon.
ROF is 135.  Rounds are API,APIDU,HEI.  It also holds up to 6500kg
on 11 hardpoints (external), plus up to 2 AIM-9L Sidewinders.


>> The best things to do when you are facing a lot of armor and infantry, is 
>> to bounce the grenade off of the armor and into the infantry.
> 
> I don't think 40mm rounds would ever bounce.

But the force of the blast would hit anyone in the burst radius.
                                                  _____
Who else is still waiting for "Naked Gun Part (Pi) | |  "

''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/
'/''/'Nathan'Narloch''/''/''/'"Alumn122@whscdp.whs.edu"/''/''/''/'
/''/'(Enforcer Burp)'/''/''/''or'/'"NARLOCHN@KIRK.MSOE.EDU"'/''/''
''/''/Milw, WI 53207/''/'"Join'the'Official'Psycho/Team..."/''/''/
'/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/''/'
From: z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Star System Generation
Date: 15 Sep 92 04:59:12 GMT
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

I'm reasonably happy with the system in GURPS Space. It is not nearly as
rigorous as Book 6: Scouts (I know; I used it...), but still produces
reasonably detailed star systems. I do find that copy of Grand Census from DGP
useful though...

Brandon Cope
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: badorion@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (Brian A. Dorion)
Subject: Re: Covers
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 03:28:10 GMT

In article <15091@mindlink.bc.ca> Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow) writes:
>How important are covers?  Will you ignore a game with a plain cover, and buy a
>game without checking what's between the covers as long as that cover is fancy?
>
>A fancy cover (full colour, or embossed gold leaf, etc) could raise the price
>of a game by several dollars.  Just what dollar value would you think a cover
>is worth?  If a store carried a plain-cover version for $20 and a nice
>colour-illustration-cover version for $25, which would you buy?
>
>--
>
>Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca

Hi Nick!  In my experience (14 years of gaming, 7 of them as the owner of a
game store) covers are very important.  Artwork is extremely important in
selling games.  Good artwork is an indication that the publisher cared enough
about the product to spend money on quality artwork that will complement the 
quality of the game.  A game can be very hurt by bad artwork (cover or
interior).  

Brian Dorion

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: rick@qucdnee.ee.queensu.ca
Subject: Re: RQ: Rune Masters and Metals
Organization: Queen's University EE Department
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:59:46 GMT

In article <q=rnjtn.akuma@netcom.com>, akuma@netcom.com (Steven E Barnes) writes:

> Armoring enchantments are one of the more serious holes in RQ III.
> Rather than changing iron, armor enchantments should be eliminated,
> or changed to something like: first enchantment costs 1 point, second
> costs +2, third +3, etc.  (or make it exponential: 1, 2, 4, 8...)
> 
> The alternative is to have family heirlooms which have been enchanted
> by each owner for the last 1000 years.  (can you say 1000+ defense?)

   shrug. they way we've always played it is that, given an object with 
more than one armouring enchantment, the biggest one is the one that 
couts. so, if you drop a 1 POW enchantment on something and roll a 6, 
then another 1-point enchantment will do you no good at all. with human 
max POW being what it is, if someone was willing to drop 20 points of 
POW on one armouring enchantment, well, he could get about +70 defense.

then again, he might botch his roll too. :-)

rp
Xref: sparky rec.games.frp.misc:5370 rec.games.frp.advocacy:2215
From: sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: 40mm grenades (was Re: Let's talk REAL..)
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:53:29 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

Just to try to set the record straight about the recently misunderstood
40mm grenade. It is not an anti-tank/armor munition. In conventional usage,
it is definitely an anti-personnel munition. The most common application of
the 40mm grenade (with an M-203) is suppressive, demoralizing, area-of-
effect fire. Like a mini-mortar. These grenades are also available in
smoke and para-flare varieties. 40mm grenades could be used against thin
skinned vehicles, but I don't think it would do much against an MBT, even
an older one. 

Now, 40mm grenades launched from the Mk-19 (automatic grenade launcher,
vehicle or tripod mounted) would probably be effective against heavier 
vehicles and armor peircing versions of the grenade might exist. Even so,
the grenade is not included with other anti-armor weapons.

Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion about bad PR, cool races,
head shots, exclusion of certain legendary sci-fi game systems, $50 bets,
weapon-packing squirrels and other lunacy.

Okay,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chadd VanZanten SL9B4@CC.USU.EDU + ``There  is water  at the  bottom 
of the ocean.'' --David Byrne, Once in a Lifetime
From: 9124704t@lux.latrobe.edu.au (Paul Veiser)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: RM: How about this spell?
Keywords: Chaotic Lord, RMCIII
Date: 9 Sep 92 01:44:09 GMT
Organization: La Trobe University

In article <1992Sep7.173909.13697@sbcs.sunysb.edu> mmoss@csws11.ic.sunysb.edu (Matthew D Moss) writes:
>After glancing at the spell again, I realized: nowhere does
>it say that this spell only works on the caster. In fact, the
>range is 10 feet.
>
>This being a first level spell (at least for type I demons) 
>seems pretty deadly to lower level adversaries. Of course, the
>Chaotic Lord and anyone else nearby then has to deal with the
>demon, but OUCH to the person who is a target of this spell.
>
>Any comments?
>
I had a similar comment in one of my games from a player with a chaotic
lord. I'm not sure that the spell was originally intended as an
offensive spell. I changed the spell to only allow it to be cast on the
character. If you allow him to cast it on someone else (or change it
into a 'summoning demon' spell) I think the whole thing would get a
little out of hand.

Paul Veiser
email: 9124704t@lux.latrobe.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.frp.advocacy,rec.games.frp.dnd
From: Rannou@info.polymtl.ca (Patrick Rannou)
Subject: Re: Alignments
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Canada
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 18:24:49 GMT

In article <1SEP199219354030@rosie.uh.edu> lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:

   I have a new topic if anyone would like to discuss it.  Alignments.
            ^^^                                            ^^^^^^^^^^

Gee, if you call THAT topic new, then WHAT is old? The Big Bang???

--
/---------------------------\
| Patrick "Paradak" Rannou. |
| Rannou@info.polymtl.ca    |
\---------------------------/

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Subject: My post about r.g.frp.* and sf games
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 01:21:00 GMT

I posted about this in reply to a comment on news.groups.
I am going to post it once here.  I will not say this again
anywhere so read it now or forever hold you peace.

The above referenced post was based on information garnered from
several different sources.  All strikingly different.  I put them
all together, did a little "if this, then that" logic and threw
it out there for comment (since no one had commented on it 
before and it was publicly posted).  THIS WAS NOT INTENED TO 
START A FLAME WAR!  THIS WAS NOT INTENDED TO RILE PEOPLE UP!
THIS WAS INTENDED TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ON HOW PEOPLE IN
THIS GROUP FELT!!!!
(felt about the topic-ness, not my intelligence, thank you)


I discovered the bogus-ness of r.g.rpg AFTER posting the RFD. I
have since changed the RFD to read RFD: rec.games.frp.board.
REFER TO MY POST IN NEWS.GROUPS FOR MORE INFORMATION.

Now, for a side note.  This is the rude-est board I have seen.
I don't intend this to be flaming, just a statement of fact.
I can't even "breathe" on this board without someone screaming
in my face.  Tell me, when you try to teach games to a non-gamer,
do you do this routine?  When you try to explain that gaming is
not Satanic to a Xtian, do you do this routine?  (etc. with the
examples)  Jheez, people, no wonder the fundies are breathing
down our necks!

How about this:  I'll post and say one word, perhaps "boo" and you
guys can start flaming it all you want. ok?

In order to save me time....here we go....on your mark....get ready......

BOO


Tammy Stark Blandino
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: std_fleming@hg.uleth.ca (John Fleming)
Subject: Mike Swain's signature
Reply-To: std_fleming@hg.uleth.ca
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 05:08:37 GMT

Its nice to see another Tick fan on this newsgroup.  BTW, Ricardo is right.  As
soon as we settle the constitutional question, we will be the next world
power:)  (????)
John Fleming                            EMAIL ADDRESS: STD_FLEMING@HG.ULETH.CA
Psych Major Extraordinaire
The University of Lethbridge            Typical quotes:
Lethbridge, Alberta,                    "Salve Iohannus, dominus machinae!" 
CANADA                                  "Veni, vidi, fugi."
From: v057qkmm@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (BABBLING SAGE)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Let's talk REAL sci-Fi systems
Keywords: The best
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:40:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <BuEtJo.4JE@rice.edu>, swaim@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Parks Swaim) writes...
>In article <BuE0Jp.321@acsu.buffalo.edu> v057qkmm@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (BABBLING SAGE) writes:
>>	Weapons and armor are NOT allowed in most civilized areas! It is
>>clearly stated in the book that this is so. And thus, roleplaying occurs.
> 
>  If you can't kill it, you have to roleplay your interactions with
>it?  The people in th1de campaigns I've been on talk to people even when we
>could kill them. Different playing style. 
> 
>>When you go out into the vast uncharted wilds, you
>>had best take your weapons >however. 
> 
>  Why do you need antitank equivelant weaponry when you go camping?
>Commando squirrels? (Yet another COOL race!)  

	You don't, unless you don't know what kind of life is out there. 
What if you've chosen to have a picnic on an Arachnid planet?\

> 
>>But it would be simple enough to run urban adventures where any \ 
>>weapons would have to be concealed, 
>>where there is law and order, and where PCs have meaningful 
>>interactions with NPCs.  
> 
>If you've got rules for booze, do you also have rules for "meaningful
>interactions?" <Wink Wink Nudge Nudge>

	If you need rules for such ...ahhh... roleplaying, you wont find them
here, no.

> 
>  On a more serius note: if I was going to junk the background, why
>should I buy the game? What's so nice about it other than fast 'n'
>deadly combat? (I tend to view combat as an respite between
>"meaningful encounters" if you know what I mean, and I think you do.)
>Is the skill system in general wonderful? How does advancement work?
>How does someone "wing it" if he doesn't have a particular skill?

	About the background: I didnt suggest that you junk it, I merely
noted the fact that a lot of GMs change the background of ANY game you buy.
The skill system is very effective, with most characters being able to get
a wide variety of skills both combat and non-combat.\
	Advancement is handled by our old friend xp; for every 1000 you get 
another skill point to spend. MC characters advance their skills at half
this rate because their powers also increase.
	"Winging it" is handled by the GM deciding a base percent chance to
succeed at a task and then adding the characters appropriate modifier
based on his stats.

> 
>(The closest I've seen to my ideal system is in "Over the Edge" with
>3 stats, chosen during character creation.)
> 
> 
> 
>-- 
>Mike Swaim            | Canada will become the next world power
>swaim@owlnet.rice.edu | and they will work to ENSLAVE all the nations
>Disclamer: I lie      | of your planet. -Ricardo
>Cthulhu in '92! The stars are right!

Bluerazor
From: v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Foto...Taking pictures again, and Happy for it!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Matriarchal Societies...Fact or Fiction
Date: 13 Sep 92 10:37:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep12.210614.6893@pimacc.pima.edu>, ppugliese@pimacc.pima.edu
writes...
> 
>Not very many , from my experience. I know alot more people who run  in
>fear from the idea of a society in which the citizenry is expected to
>support themselves instead of relying upon the government to do so, as
>an example.
> 
>PHIL

Phil,

   You wouldn't happen to be talkin about any societies in the real world,
would you?  ;) ;) ;)

Nahhhhh...had to be some well run fantasy world where the elected officials
thought that throwing currency at a social problem could clear it all up...

;) ;) ;)

Skeksis

P.S. - What *would* you call a society like that...
From: v054nn84@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Foto...Taking pictures again, and Happy for it!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Gaming boards
Date: 15 Sep 92 12:31:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

>I'd really rather play a system which is fully developed, fully
>tested, and is intelligently thought out to some degree.  There is
>always adjustments, but fixing major holes....Not with my money.

Amen to THAT, Tammy!  'Sides, *any* game that takes the attitude that you
*have* to buy their revisions instead of using the ones you develop during 
play has an attitude problem anyway (not naming *any* games in specific)!

Skeksis