HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 07:22:00 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Skvorecky article

...why skip Mr.Meciar...
As far as I know Mr.Meciar was just ordinary member of CP as were 1 mil.
people.(I named heads of communist movement in CS. But if H.K. wants
"convincing argument", I'm afraid, that I won't be able to put down all
1.000.000 communist.)
...if none of Slobodnik's actions are "unmoral"...
I took part in so called "branecky vycvik" (because everybody on BB gymnazium
had to) about 7 years ago. I learnt to handle machinegun there to be able
to fight against "imperialistom". But don't be afraid Mr. Kucera, I'm not
going to be a politician.
... hope that Father Tiso is praying for Slovakia.
Mr. Kucera, leave f. Tiso out of our discussion. What do you know about him?
What do I know about him?
Marian Kubaska
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 07:46:00 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Veritas vincit!

Mr.Havranek,
I'm joining your plea for Mr.Skvorecky's article.
Your contribution is nice example of czech conformity. It is one saying:
"We will fight if they are not there. We will step back if they appear."
Do you forget the Hitler's occupation of Bohemia without one shut, do
you forget the death of democracy in 48, do you forget the soviet
invasion in 68 ???  Yes, Veritas vincit but let it win alone, or let
someone else to fight for it, thats your standpoint.
Respectfuly yours
             Marian Kubaska
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:22:50 EST
From:         HAMMERL@UCS.INDIANA.EDU
Subject:      RE: Slovaks/Hungarians

When I was the editor of the Slovak STudies Association NEwsletter, we
received a notice from an American-SLovak who specializes in genealogy.
He has computerized a list, and may charge for his services.  I have
not consulted him professionally, but can pass on his name and address.

		Ray Plutko
		2414 Sewwt Water Court
		Chino Hills, CA 91709

BEst wishes,
Louise Hammer
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
From: ttj@doe.carleton.ca (Tomas Janacek)
Subject: re: SDL - answer requested
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 12:24:31 GMT

Dear Mr. Kubaska,

thank you for letting me know that Canada is not a democratic country.
I have suspected that for some time but only thanks to you I can now
follow the REAL TRUTH.

OK back to your answer. Isn't it beautiful to claim any nonsense you want
(SDL is not a commie party) bla bla bla - and when asked to priove your
claim to start screaming and yelling about the "presumed innocency".
(For your information, our Charter of Rights and Freedoms entrenches
this deeply in our constitution, if I am not wrong it is clause 15 or 16).

So - now I dare say.

SDL are bloody communists.

Meciar is one of the worst creatures in the Czechoslovak political life
and utterly unconvincing. (All he can do is to lie, threaten and perhaps
sometimes physically assault "persona non grata").

Czechoslovakia today os only marginally less communist country than it was
in 1989.

Of course, it is all value-judgment and i do not mean to prove it all.

I would only be happy if you thought twice before you start explaining
to me that I do not live in the democratic country and that you are free
to tell anything you want to without proving that.

No one is taking that away from you. Only I don't think that it is convincing
to say something you can't prove. You (as anyone else) is absolutely free
to state anything you believe, feel, are convinced of.

Only that I will think twice before I accept ANY information posted by
you.     

Thank you for the answer.

     		Bye
				T. Janacek
				Ottawa, Canada


P.S. In case you would like to anwer - I'm going on vacation till Aug 14.
Have a nice time overthere (I am going to undemocratic Nova Scotia).

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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 07:54:00 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Havel

There are some points to current discussion from person who live in
Slovakia.
First of all I would not make an coalition from, as H.K. called it,
"Slovak nationalist","Communists"and HZDS on one side and Sladek's
SPR-RSCS and CP of Bohemia&Moravia on other side.
H.K. accused Mr.Weis from communist past,the same past of people
from Mr.Klaus conservative party for instance. I never showed simpathy
to communism (nobody from my fammily took part in former communist
party in CSSR), but I appeciate the attitude "Not to take another coat"
of former Slovak communist. One would have to stay behind his oppinions.
Another point is refusing Mr. Havels presidency. I' think that reasons
are not "Nationalism-Communism" attitude of slovak parties named by
H.K.,but folloving issues:
   1-Mr.Havel sorrounded himself by large group of incapable persons
     as Writers,Journalists,former disident friends,...
   2-He made innitial step to stop military industry in Slovakia.
   3-He, in accord with his amnesty right, set free an army of killers
   4-He signed so called "Lustracny zakon" (he said,that he dissagree
     with it ..?), which gave way to persecute innocent people as well
     as guilty ones.
   5-He made unforgetable mistake by calling on slovak voters not to
     vote pro-slovak parties.
   6-He is connected with pro-federal attitude which failed in free
     election.
It bothers me, that slovak refusal of Mr.Havel's beeing president is
explained as refusal of his personal qualities (humanism and demacratism).
Mr.Havel is indeed a person worthy of respect, but mixing up wishes and
policy is allways at least dangerous.
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Date:         Sun, 26 Jul 1992 22:15:18 EDT
From:         Henry Kucera <HENRY@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Forwarded mail for LISTS.SLOVAK-L

>Posted on 26 Jul 1992 at 20:27:07 by BrownVM Mailer (103837)
>
>From:         Milan PALUS <PCPMP@CSEARN.BITNET>

>Blaming everything on the Czechs, the Slovak should refuse the
>common state with the Czechs at all. And, as far as I know,
>only a minority of the Slovaks did it. The majority refused only
>THE FORM of the common state, practitioned also by Slovak communists.
>
>> ...especially not
>>"Communist democratic centralism from Prague",
>At all?
>
>REgards, M.P.

  I certainly appreciate your point. The problem is, however, that a so-called
confederation, apparently desired by Mr. Meciar and many other Slovaks, is not
acceptable to the Czechs who, after all, constitute 2/3 of the population.
This is understandable, I think, given the sorry history of attempted
structures like that where everything can be vetoed by either member and where
each member does his own thing (taxes, budget, economic policy, etc.)
There is no such working structure anywhere at the present time. Switzerland,
which calls itself "Confederatio Helvetica" is, in all senses, a federation.
So is the US and, until at least now, Canada.
  As Ronald Reagan used to say, it takes two to tango. Not very profound but
true: an agreement has to acceptable to both sides, not be a demand of one.
And so, the federation is apparently headed for a dissolution. After that,
perhaps an agreement can be reached on more realistic terms.

Best regards, H.K.
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Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 07:33:00 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: SDL - answer requested

Dear Mr.Janacek
Of course I know that Canada is democratic country. If you didn't
(or you didn't want to) understand me, I have more straight explanation.
You sertainly know, that it is bloody tough to prove, that someone is
not some kind of someone. You asked me to prove, that SDL  "ARE NOT"
communists. It is nosense. You had to ask me to prove, that SDL "ARE"
communists. It would make some sense, don't you think?
If I accept your request for they-ARE-NOT-communist proof, I would
have to write 10 pages of their political steps every day and no
progress will be done in my investigation.
So I dare to ask you, Mr.Janacek. Give me a proof, that SDL ARE COMMUNISTS.
You dont need to write down a book as you asked me to.
You need to state just one fact.
Give me those fact Mr.Janacek.
And we can start a trial.

Respectfuly
    Marian Kubaska
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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:11:00 N
From:         FALK2399@DS0RUS54.BITNET
Subject:      Havel

Mr. Kubaska and Martonak's refusals of Mr Havel as a Czechoslovak president
on the Slovak-l are fully respected and appreciated. What is still missing
is a constructive proposal of an alternative candidate who would be accepted
by the both nations of Slovaks and Czechs.

Regards,

M.Havranek, Sturrgart, FRG
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From: rs2x@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Robert Simoncic)
Subject: Re: Havel
Originator: rs2x@oprah.cs.Virginia.EDU
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 16:46:44 GMT

In article <SLOVAK-L%92072210121072@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>, HENRY@BROWNVM.BITNET (Henry Kucera)
writes:
>  And one more matter re former Communists who change their color: Havel was
>never a Communist nor were his main advisors when he was President, i.e.
>Schwarzenberg and Tigrid. As a matter of fact, both of them did a great deal
>abroad to help Communism fall in Czechoslovakia. And they are highly competent
>people. So, let's be fair.
>
>Sincerely, HK
>

It may not be all that important to be a non-communist advisor
as to be a competent one.
My friends from one large firm on Wall Street told me that
they had had a meeting with Schwarzenberg in Switzerland a year ago.
Well, they were not very much impressed, since Schwarzenberg
(being an older man) fell asleep twice during the meeting
and constantly kept mixing names of two gentlemen that were
talking to him. They corrected him a couple of times but
even when they were leaving he made up new names for them
yet again.
I don't have to persuade you that since then they
do not think much of Havel'a advisors (and nor do I).

			Robert

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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 13:20:00 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Havel

                                                   ...a main issue that
Slovak republic needs but important one, of course.
  (There was shutdown in our system, so I'm going on this way)
The most important to slovak economy is acces to western and eastern
markets, protection of slovak agricultural production, and stop to
underestimating of slovak export to Czech republic.
Slovaks have to help themself alone by their own work, intelligence and
policy.

Marian Kubaska
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Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 21:00:23 EDT
From:         Henry Kucera <HENRY@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Havel

  The US papers (NY Times, Boston Globe and others) carry today a
front page picture of Havel and a story of his presidency. His reviews
are certainly as good as that of any of his plays, the best--for a
Czechoslovak politician--since Thomas Masaryk, the founder of
Czechoslovakia (who,incidentally, was half Moravian and half Slovak
by origin). But never mind the missed opportunities; they may yet
reemerge.

  What is somewhat bothersome is that all the stories about Havel
include the statement that he was defeated for another term as
President by the Slovak nationalists. This is, of course, the truth, but
not the whole truth. Havel was defeated by an alliance of Meciar's
party, the Slovak National Party and the Communists. In the Slovak
half of the Chamber of Nations (Snemovna narodu), Havel got only 18
votes (in the second round where a simple majority was required) of
the possible 75. This cannot be explained simply by the Meciar and
the Slovak Party's deputies voting as told by their leaders; it
required the active cooperation of Mr. Peter Weiss, one of the
deputy chairmen of the Slovak parliament and the boss of the
Communist Party of Slovakia --whatever he may call his organization
now (Mr. Weiss was, until recently, one of the most ardent
supporters and teachers of Marxism-Leninism in Slovakia).

   Nor did the Czech left, especially the Communist Party of Bohemia
and Moravia, behave much differently. In the Chamber of the People
(the lower house of parliament) Havel got 79 votes out of 150, which
was only a simple majority. The 71 votes against him were cast,
without much doubt, by a coalition of Communists, Slovak
nationalists and the Czech neo-fascists led by Mr. Miroslav Sladek.

   One should not, of course, draw drastic conclusions from a single
occurrence. Nevertheless, the warning that these voting statistics in
opposition to an internationally respected humanist and democrat
present, must be taken seriously. After all, there have been several
poor-man's versions of the Stalin-Hitler pact in the past. We can only
hope that this is not yet another one. Fortunately, the international
situation strongly suggests that even if it were, it would be a self-
defeating enterprise. Nevertheless, any Western businessman in his
right mind (and I happen to talk to a lot of them) will not be able to
dismiss this lightly when it comes to investing in the Slovak Republic.

  Regretfully, H.K.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
From: ttj@doe.carleton.ca (Tomas Janacek)
Subject: SDL are not communists?
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 12:33:16 GMT

Re Communist party didn't pass to Parliament???

Re ..it is unproper to accuse ... and SDL from communism  


Well I am sorry but I am having troubles to figure this out.

Has Mr. Weiss accepted different "religion"?
Or perhaps he has never been a communist?

Or may be after 1989 we do not have almost any communists left as
all them (OK almost all them) "beheld the truth" and followed it?

I would appreciate more info, Mr Kubaska.

And as for Mr.Meciar communist, Stb past, I think that's quite
a commonplace info so to use the verb "accuse" is perhaps not that
proper - "to describe" might have been more appropriate.

RSVP

                                  Tomas Janacek
                                  Ottawa, Canada

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Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 14:17:50 +0100
From:         MARTONAK@ITSSISSA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Havel

Just few remarks - I do not intend to present other reasons for which Mr. Havel
is not popular in Slovakia, since some of them appeared in the Mr. Kubaska's
article. What, at least in my mind, is strange, is the very logic of the
reasoning - since I like something (or somebody), you should like it/him too,
and if you don't, then there is probably something wrong with you (and not with
me, of course). Why do you think that Mr. Havel should be, a priori, considered
in Slovakia as a good candidate for president ? Just because he is intellectual,
playwright and humanist ? There are many such persons. Or because he is popular
in the USA ?
        I also consider Mr. Havel to be in many respects a remarkable person.
However, not as a politician and not as president. And I see no reason to see
something particularly drammatic on the fact, that he was not elected. It's
simply a political reality. By the way, I would myself think a long time before
using the example of the Hitler - Stalin pact in connection with anybody from
the present political scene of Czecho-Slovakia.
                                        Best regards
                                                Roman Martonak
                                                Int. School for Advanced Studies
                                                Strada Costiera 11
                                        34014   Italy
                                                Trieste
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Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 02:25:24 MDT
From:         Milan PALUS <PCPMP@CSEARN.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Forwarded mail for LISTS.SLOVAK-L

> The argument is that you cannot blame everything on the Czechs, especially not
>"Communist democratic centralism from Prague", to quote Mr. Mego. I thought
>that that was pretty obvious. Apparently, it was not. H.K.

> The argument is that you cannot blame everything on the Czechs

Yes, and I am very sorry when some Slovaks did it.
But I think this was not the point.
Blaming everything on the Czechs, the Slovak should refuse the
common state with the Czechs at all. And, as far as I know,
only a minority of the Slovaks did it. The majority refused only
THE FORM of the common state, practitioned also by Slovak communists.

> ...especially not
>"Communist democratic centralism from Prague",
At all?

REgards, M.P.
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Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 07:12:00 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Brave new world

Dear Kamil,
Friend who told you about c'istky in all areas of public life was
right in the case he understand by "cistka" process of replacing
incompetent people by others (we'll see if they are competent ones).
It is for me quite obvious, that I can be fired out of work, so why
wouldn't it be obvious for our beaurocrats.
HZDS can't replace people in Slovak TV, because it can be done by
parliament or "TV rada"(which is dominated by KDH by the way).

Marian Kubaska
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Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1992 00:04:58 EDT
From:         lIZ HAWTHORNE <FAC2227@UOFT01.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Quiting list.
              17 Jul 1992 13:17:29 -0400 from <jchapman@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU>

Please take my name off this list while I am on Sabbatical.  I would
like to return in January.  Liz Hawthorne FAC2227 at uoft01
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Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 10:25:10 PDT
From:         Martin Rajnis <martinr@MICROSOFT.COM>
Subject:      Re: SDL are not communists?
X-To:         netmail!SLOVAK-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu

Hi Louise,
I am extremely interested!
Martin Rajnis

----------
*From:  <netmail!HAMMERL@UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
*To: Multiple recipients of list SLOVAK-L  <SLOVAK-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>
*Subject: Re: SDL are not communists?
*Date: 23.July 1992 15:04
*
*	Josef Skvorecky had a lengthy article published in yesterday's
*New York Times.  It is extremely anti-SLovak.  Would there be any interest
*among list participants in reading it?  If so, I will send it over the
*weekend.
*
*Louise Hammer
*
*
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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 19:39:42 +0100
From:         MARTONAK@ITSSISSA.BITNET
Subject:      The Skvorecky's article

The article by Mr. Josef Skvorecky was published also in yesterday's
International Herald Tribune.
I higly appreciate the fact that Mr. Skvorecky dared say quite openly what
Mr. Klaus never did: that Slovakia has become a burden to the Czech lands.
Yes, it is time to say the truth to each other. But then, I think, one should
tell the whole truth and not stop in the midway. I don't agree with
Mr. Skvorecky's opinion that this is the consequence of the policy of
Mr. Meciar's party. I think the names are not so important. Meciar, or someone
else, Havel, or someone else, the situation would be exactly the same.
Slovakia became a burden for the Czech lands after being its colony for more
than 70 years. It became a burden in the moment when it decided not to be
what Prague would have liked it to be.

                                Best regards
                                                Roman Martonak.
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Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1992 06:22:00 -0700
From:         Adolf Ceska <aceska@CUE.BC.CA>
Subject:      PRAGUE CENTRALISM
X-To:         Discussion of Slovak issues <SLOVAK-L@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu>

I hope Mr. Bilak will get a fair trial.

Adolf Ceska, Victoria, B.C., Canada
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 11:14:45 PDT
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
Subject:      Brave new world
X-To:         uunet!ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu!slovak-l@uunet.UU.NET

A friend who lives in Bratislava told me that there are "c'istky,"
(a term used for firing of people on a large scale) in Slovakia
organized by HZDS in all areas of public life, including the media.
He says the reason we don't hear about it is that the atmosphere of
fear is spreading fast.

Although I'd like to think that it is impossible (or at least not easy)
to completely reverse the liberalization process that took place
after the revolution, I wouldn't completely discount this information.

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
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Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 09:59:54 PDT
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
Subject:      Skvorecky's article
X-To:         uunet!ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu!slovak-l@uunet.UU.NET

>>       Josef Skvorecky had a lengthy article published in yesterday's
>>New York Times.  It is extremely anti-SLovak.  Would there be any interest
>>among list participants in reading it?  If so, I will send it over the
>>weekend.
>
>>Louise Hammer
>
>
>Louise, please go ahead and do send it! Even though the majority of the
>Czechs are not anti-Slovak, and they have never been, they have never
>showed much sympathy for the Slovak extremities ( Tiszo, Mach, Durcansky,
>and Meciar).
>
>The other thing is to keep a free discussion going. So even though
>we may not be very happy about Mr Skovorecky's article, we have to insist
>in its free availability. We have been fighting for freedom and democracy
>for all our lives, haven't we and we are not going to give in, never, never!

I just finished reading Skvorecky's article. I would not consider it
"extremely anti-Slovak." I think it well captures the Czech paradigm.
Well worth reading.

>What a nice surprise that Frajkor & Co haven't put their feet on the Czech
>breast yet. I was mistaken as I awaited it and I am glad for that.

Remember, Frajkor said he'd be out of the country for about a month...

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
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Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:38:48 EDT
From:         Henry Kucera <HENRY@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Havel

  And, of course, the old Schwarzenberg was not Havel's advisor, it was the
young one. Are your Wall Street friends in the undertaker business, by any
chance? H.K.
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