HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eliedw@hedda.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: Phoenician Territory
Organization: UiO
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:48:28 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.152954.7901@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu>
rached@sample.eng.ohio-state.edu (Rached Zantout) writes:
>Hi
>
>I have a map of Lebanon, published by the ministry of tourism (in the 70's I
>think). It has a little map of the Bay of the mediteranean sea on which they
show
>in red the Phoenician's expansion. The red area covers the beaches of today's
>Lebanon, Syria, a little bit of Turkey and a bit of Palestine. Also they have
>read areas in north africa (near and in Tunisia), on some of the mediteranean
>islands like crete (I think, this is all from Memory). To my astonishment they
>have half of Spain and Portugal as an area where phoenicians expanded. This is
>the first time I hear of it. When we were kids we were taught about how the
>princess that made Carthage did it. But I never heared about phoenicians
reaching
>spain, did they have a political existence there as in Carthage ? or did they
>only have some historical findings ?


Rached, there are many types of colonization. The LEbanese have colonized all
these areas, not by conquest, but by establishing small or large "trade posts".
You are right that the largest such post was Carthage founded in approx. 800
BC. Yet the Phoencians establsihed such posts all over the MEditerranian. Some
cities in greece were founded by the LEbanese, note the ancient city of Thebes
for example. In Cyrpus the city of Larnaca, and possibly more (an ancient city
also called Carthage lay near todays Limasol).

The Phoenicans founded many trade posts on the north african coast (the
north-eastern mediterranean was the domain of the Greeks  :-(   :-)   )

In Spain Cordoba, Carthagena, and many other cities stil alive today were
founded by the Lebanese. In Morocco, very any cities were founded by the
Phoenicians, even as far as the Atlantic coast.

It is also estimated that the Phoenicians even reached England from where they
brought tin. In north-west africa the Phoenicians went a bit inland (due to the
greatness of Carthago?) and many inland cities were founded.

It is also worth noting that the Phoenician also circumnavigated Africa and
most probably landed on the coast of South America.

Most of these cities or colonies were small and not of great importance. MOst
had no political existance at all, oter than they being trade centres or rest
places for Phoenician sailors. They were used as stages on the trips acorss the
Mediterranean. Therfore many of them have vanished in history without a trace.
Others like Carthago had their "Golden age" but then fell into ruins, others
still live til today.

So these posts were not a sort of "territories under the Lebanese Empire", for
the Phoenicians had no such empire. THese territories are areas where
Phoenicians had established "trade posts" and which served to "expand" the
areas with whcih the Phoenicians could trade and be safe of sea Pirates.

>rached
>

elie wardini
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: UPI
Subject: Guerrillas attack Israeli, SLA patrols
Reply-To: ayman@eecs.umich.edu
Organization: United Press International
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:00:20 GMT
X-Note: This article was automatically cross-posted to soc.culture.lebanon

[ Article cross-posted without permission ]
	SIDON, Lebanon (UPI) -- Lebanese guerrillas attacked Israeli forces
and their proxy South Lebanon Army militia inside the border zone in
southern Lebanon Thursday, triggering Israeli retaliatory attacks,
militia and U.N. sources said.
	Guerrillas of the Lebanese Communist Party planted a number of
explosive charges on a road northeast of the village of Shaqra inside
Israel's self-declared ``security zone,'' LCP sources said.
	The roadside bombs, attached to some 20 hand grenades, detonated
against an Israeli patrol, made up of two military vehicles and an
infantry unit, inflicting a number of casualties, the sources said.
	Another Israeli force rushed to the area following the attack, the
sources said.
	The LCP fighters ambushed the force, firing machine guns and rocket-
propelled grenades. One vehicle was destroyed and all its members were
killed or wounded, they said.
	U.N. sources in southern Lebanon confirmed the attack but said
guerrillas, who sneaked inside the border zone, fired machine guns and
one rocket-propelled grenade on the Israeli patrol.
	The U.N. sources said no one was hurt during the attack.
	Earlier, guerrillas of the National Resistance Movement ambushed a
car carrying SLA security officials near the Christian town of Jezzine,
located inside the border zone, 23 miles south of Beirut.
	Sources said the fighters showered the car with machine-gun fire,
wounding three SLA militiamen.
	But the SLA-run Voice of the South radio station said two SLA
militiamen were wounded when their patrol came under fire near Jezzine.
One vehicle also was destroyed.
	The National Resistance Movement is made up of Lebanese leftist and
pro-Syrian groups, including the LCP and the National Syrian Social
Party, which pledged to fight Israel until it withdraws its troops from
southern Lebanon.
	In retaliation to the earlier attacks, Israeli artillery bombarded a
cluster of Shiite villages east of the southern port city of Sidon.
	Shells poured on Louweizeh, Jabal Safi, Mlita, Sujud Hill, Ain
Bouswar and Jarjou, according to security sources in Sidon. Several
houses in Jarjou were damaged but no casualties were reported, the
sources said.
	Some 1,000 Israeli servicemen and the 2,500-member SLA normally
patrol the security zone, which stretches 9 miles inside Lebanon.
	Israel last week rushed more troops and tanks to the area, raising
fears that it was preparing for a large-scale ground attack to uproot
the pro-Iranian Hezbollah.
	Diplomatic contacts succeeded in defusing the tension after pressure
was exerted on Israel and Hezbollah.
	Although reports indicated Thursday that Israel almost completed the
withdrawal of its reinforcements back into Israeli territories, security
sources in the southern port city of Tyre said 40 of 60 Israeli cannons
remained inside the border enclave.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: hani@civil4.engin.umich.edu (Hani Abinassif)
Subject: Re: Shaheed
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 21:18:50 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: hani@civil4.engin.umich.edu


Bulbul writes:-):

[....]
** 'alOlI .tab^ak bI.haYar
   'ana 'olti .Tab^i byit.gaYar
                                --Mayyada

                     
These are the best lines written during this discussion:-)
We need more Mayyadas, Wardas and Fairouzes:-)
-Hani



-- 
 ----------------------------         --------------------------
| Hani_Nassif@um.cc.umich.edu| _____ | 1354 G.G.Brown           |
| hani@engin.umich.edu       |       | Ann Arbor, MI 48109      |
 ----------------------------         --------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: rached@sample.eng.ohio-state.edu (Rached Zantout)
Subject: Phoenician Territory
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:29:54 GMT

Hi

I have a map of Lebanon, published by the ministry of tourism (in the 70's I
think). It has a little map of the Bay of the mediteranean sea on which they show
in red the Phoenician's expansion. The red area covers the beaches of today's
Lebanon, Syria, a little bit of Turkey and a bit of Palestine. Also they have
read areas in north africa (near and in Tunisia), on some of the mediteranean
islands like crete (I think, this is all from Memory). To my astonishment they
have half of Spain and Portugal as an area where phoenicians expanded. This is
the first time I hear of it. When we were kids we were taught about how the
princess that made Carthage did it. But I never heared about phoenicians reaching
spain, did they have a political existence there as in Carthage ? or did they
only have some historical findings ?

rached
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: UPI
Subject: Exchange Rates (Fri Nov 20 1992)
Reply-To: ayman@eecs.umich.edu
Organization: United Press International
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 21:44:22 GMT
X-Note: This article was automatically cross-posted to soc.culture.lebanon

[ Article cross-posted without permission ]

                      USD per LL      LL per USD
                      Fri     Thu     Fri     Thu

Lebanon pnd       .000518 .000518 1930.00 1930.00

Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan)
Subject: Re: Son of God(was Shaheed)
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:26:01 GMT

In <4426@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:

" Nabeel - why are you playing devil's advocate here?  :-?

   I am not, I am answering whatever I can, seriously.

" Actually I understand the concept but the problem is not with the concept -
" it is with the philosophy; namely, that God, according to Christians, is
" divided into three equal parts but not completely equal to God Himself. 

   rje^na lal.gala.t! God is not divided. But if you ask why is God this
way? I have no idea.

" His Wife?  When did the official ceremony take place?  :-0  What I meant
" about giving birth was that how could a part of God be given birth to as
" a human being by a human being?  That certainly deviates from His Oneness
" and Perfection.  And it is rather incredible to me how Catholics believe
" that Mary is the mother of God ... Furthermore, that the message to mankind,
" from God, was to believe in Him only.  How can Jesus, if he were God Himself,
" call on God as a father or need to die as a way of having people believe in
" him?

   It's all figurative. It just deviates from what you imagine to be His
oneness. The message of Moses was regarding the Father and he was the one
refered to as God. Jesus call God his Father because that was the case. He
needed to die not to make people believe in him, but to carry the burden of
those who believe in him. Like for example when you are in a cafe and say
the drinks are all on me. You pay and others just drink IF they acknowledge
your payment, but if they do not, THEY have to pay.

" I don't expect you to answer these mind-boggling questions, Nabeel, but
" this is my point is stated very clearly and there is a definite legitimacy
" behind these questions. 

" How can you consider it a test from God when it's philosophy is not in
" terms which are understandable to human beings who have the natural
" instinct to ask questions?  Are we to be tested on our ignorance solely
" on blind faith?   Surely Allah is Al-Hakeem.

   No, you misunderstood me. Jesus, proved to people his authority and then
implicitly required them to believe in things that they do not experience,
in the power and credibility of God. Remember when a desciple walked on
water and he almost sank when he lost faith and Jesus pulled him out. It
is all about faith. Also Koran has the same idea in the first few verses
in the Cow Chapter.

" But in both cases, God breathed life into both, without whom would have
" been born.  That is my point.

   The relation of the Son to Father does not stem from the Son's conception
in Mary and God's breathing life into him. It existed since for ever, no one
was before the other. Jesus was there even before he was born, but Adam was
created from clay at some definite time. In the sense you said, God is
considered to be our Father.

" Nabeel, YOU are indeed a mystery ...

   Well, we all are!

" Anisa

**
From: ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: My God!!!!
Date: 22 Nov 92 11:47:56 GMT
Organization: University of Strathclyde

In article <1992Nov21.113306.27319@ulrik.uio.no> eliedw@hedda.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:
> 
>from: Elie Wardini
>subject: My God!!!!!!
>
>quote:
>
>Subject: ANALYSIS: LEBANON'S PRIME MINISTER BUILDS UP MEDIA ...
>
>By ALI JABER 
>  BEIRUT (NOV. 20) DPA - After adding political power to his enormous financial
>strength, Rafik Hariri, Lebanon's new prime minister, is on his way to becoming
>the Arab world's media tycoon. 
[  ...  ]
>   "I need a press that can compliment my work in building a healthy country,
>not sabotage my job," he said. 
>
>end of quote.
>
>Hariri SAL! We can see the contours of the New Lebanon!
>
Well, if he saying that he needs a press to complement his work, it does not
mean that you can not get your own media or he is going to shut down what you
have/will have in the future.

Ministers before obtained and still run their own media despite being officials 
in the government. It did not seem to bother anybody!
>
>Elie Wardini


I. Ballouz
-- 
*******************************************************************************
* IBRAHIM BALLOUZ            **           DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE          *
* ccav38@uk.ac.strath.ccsun  **  STRATHCLYDE UNIVERSITY GLASGOW SCOTLAND U.K. *
*******************************************************************************
From: ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: pluralism
Date: 22 Nov 92 11:30:58 GMT
Organization: University of Strathclyde

In article <1992Nov20.094932.1@v2.cgu.mcc.ac.uk> zzaaskk@v2.cgu.mcc.ac.uk writes:
>In article <1992Nov18.141408.14796@ccsun.strath.ac.uk>, ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz") writes:
>> 
>> In article <1992Nov18.115230.3975@ulrik.uio.no> eliedw@hedda.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:
>>>
>> [  ....  ]
>>>
>>>My principle is the following: Pluralism (real pluralism that is)
>                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>The only true pluralistic state that ever existed over the last 14 centuries
>were the Islamic states. Jews, christians, and members of other relegions
>achived high political office as ministers and advisers to the rulers. Can you
>say the same about any of the so called pluralistic states of the western
>countries. Islam is the second largest relegion in france. There is not 
>even a mayor who is Muslim in france. The same goes for the UK not one Member
>of parliment. One mayor though I am not sure if he is still mayor or not.
>How about the US? How many people of the non Judeo-Christian religoon hold
>public office.  
>
>>>
>>>I am against a religious state, becuase this goes against my belief in
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>pluralism.
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
>
>A religous state on the model that some people suggeste may raise fears. The
>problem is not  the Islamic state. The problem is that Muslims fall far short
>in formulating and articulating their vision of that Islamic state, in modern
>and twentyeth, if not twentyfirst century, terms.
>
>Kamie


Here, you were replying to Elie Dib Wardini, he is the one who wrote what you
had underlined and I was replying to him.
It would have been much more better if you went back to his original article and
replied to it. 
People (and yourself I think) can get confused when you reply to a person 
through the post of another. Count the arrows to find out.


I .Ballouz
-- 
*******************************************************************************
* IBRAHIM BALLOUZ            **           DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE          *
* ccav38@uk.ac.strath.ccsun  **  STRATHCLYDE UNIVERSITY GLASGOW SCOTLAND U.K. *
*******************************************************************************
From: gordon2@hulaw1.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: In search of....
Date: 24 Nov 92 01:14:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: hulaw1.1992Nov23.201433.17739
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

Hi everyone!  This is my very first post, so I hope it works.
Several weeks ago I was asked by a publisher of legal texts to help locate a
Lebanese legal scholar by the name of Antoine El-Gemayel.  Specifically, the 
publisher wants to know whether he is still alive...apparently the two were
friends while Mr. El-Gemayel was working on a legal treatise on Lebanon in 
Washington D.C.  Mr.  El-Gemayel returned to Lebanon in 1988 and the 
publisher hasn't heard from him since.  Hopefully someone out in the wide
world of soc.culture.lebanon has knowledge as to Mr. El-Gemayel's whereabouts.
I would greatly appreciate any info anyone has....Thanks! - Cathie Gordon
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: UPI
Subject: Exchange Rates (Wed Nov 18 1992)
Reply-To: ayman@eecs.umich.edu
Organization: United Press International
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 22:20:47 GMT
X-Note: This article was automatically cross-posted to soc.culture.lebanon

[ Article cross-posted without permission ]

                      USD per LL      LL per USD
                      Wed     Tue     Wed     Tue

Lebanon pnd       .000518 .000518 1930.00 1930.00
From: ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: ARAB UNITY
Date: 17 Nov 92 14:26:00 GMT
Organization: University of Strathclyde

In article <1992Nov17.115232.25424@ulrik.uio.no> eliedw@hedda.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:
>
[  .. ]

Elie, I am not an expert on Islam and I don't have much information on this 
discussion but I would like to draw your attention to a point that is directly
related to our situation in the Lebanon. 
You said:

[  ...  ]

>I will never be able to achieve high posistions in the political
>administration, since Mulims can only be ruled by Muslims. If I have a dispute
>with a Muslim, I will not be treated as equal and my trial can not be taken
>before a secular or Christian jury and judge.

If you,as a non-Moslem living in an Islamic state, want the freedom to get high
political offices, why you do not apply the same principle to Moslems in 
Lebanon? Why you would like a high office in an overwhelming Moslem country and
you object to total separation between State and Religion in Lebanon?

I seem to remember reading some articles in which you said that you want the
principle of sharing power at the top level to be guaranteed, am I wrong?

[  ....  ]


>This fact is enough to make the whole system unacceptable.

I hope you see why some of us, Moslems, are asking for a change to the better
in the country.

>elie wardini

I. Ballouz

-- 
*******************************************************************************
* IBRAHIM BALLOUZ            **           DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE          *
* ccav38@uk.ac.strath.ccsun  **  STRATHCLYDE UNIVERSITY GLASGOW SCOTLAND U.K. *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: UPI
Subject: Exchange Rates (Mon Nov 16 1992)
Reply-To: ayman@eecs.umich.edu
Organization: United Press International
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:51:52 GMT
X-Note: This article was automatically cross-posted to soc.culture.lebanon

[ Article cross-posted without permission ]

                      USD per LL      LL per USD
                      Mon     Fri     Mon     Fri

Lebanon pnd       .000515 .000515 1940.00 1940.00
From: ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Ms(Mr) King (the jews)
Date: 22 Nov 92 11:20:40 GMT
Organization: University of Strathclyde


In article <1992Nov20.093415.1@v2.cgu.mcc.ac.uk> zzaaskk@v2.cgu.mcc.ac.uk writes:
[ ... ]

>Well he was talking about Lebanese People killed , prisond, maimed by the 
>Israelis. I think is of interest to the Lebanese. Should not we be screaming
>our heads off for their sake. Or is it just the life, blood, and anguish of
>westerners, and and zionists of value in this world? 

Well, if he was engaging in a discussion in SCI and he wished to cite our
sufferings in his arguments, I don't understand why we should get a copy of his
post. I don't understand how it is of the intrest of the Lebanese that we 
should get a copy of every post that contains some reference to the Lebanon or
its people. Is it more information he is giving us or was he expecting somebody 
should follow his track and send an article to help him?

And here you are dodging the issue. I did not say that we should ignore the 
of the Lebanese prisoners and I did not say that the lives of the others are
more important than ours. And I did not say that we should prevent the people
from mentioning us or support our fair cause. What I am saying is that we should
not be USED here and there. Remember that we were alone and we are still alone 
facing our circumstances. Where are these thousands of tanks, aircraft, the
millions of brothers who all vocally support us? They even failed to 
demonstrate to deplore what has been happening. It is a sick joke to beleive
that he cares about us.

>
>The lives of the Lebanese and their properties are more important then any
>thing else. Not even the constitutional reformes which all is doing is to
>try and find a new way of slicing the cake. Or the disscusion of Is Jesus 
>the son of God or not? 
>                      
Because we did not have a good consitution and a strong country, we, Lebanese
are suffering and enduring the present miserable conditions and many of the 
Lebanese have endede up in AL KHYAM.
It is not therefore a useless thing to do if we are trying to see why we are 
in such a mess.

And at the end,
not you and neither M.G., are more Lebanese than I am, and neither yourself
nor him have paid more than myself or my family in these conditions.
So stop being overzealot and spare me lectures on what I should be doing and 
what I should not do for my country.
>> 
>> I. Ballouz
>> -- 
>
>
>Kamie

I. Ballouz

-- 
*******************************************************************************
* IBRAHIM BALLOUZ            **           DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE          *
* ccav38@uk.ac.strath.ccsun  **  STRATHCLYDE UNIVERSITY GLASGOW SCOTLAND U.K. *
*******************************************************************************
From: haidar@ces.cwru.edu (H. Harmanani)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Syrian/Israeli Military control
Date: 19 Nov 1992 18:52:13 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science/CWRU
NNTP-Posting-Host: vlsi.ces.cwru.edu

In article <1992Nov19.144031.13802@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:

>Surely you read the news or listen to the television or radio! Doesn't
>the American "free" press and media refer to the "pro-Iranian" Hezbollah
>or the "Iranian-backed" Hezbollah whenever they are mentioned? :-)

Sure but if they were Iranians, UPI should say: The Iranian Hezbollah.
I guess the prefix "pro-" should be taken a bit more seriously. :-)

>Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)


-- 
H. Harmanani (haidar@alpha.ces.cwru.edu)
Dept. of Computer Engineering
Crawford Hall 215C
Case Western Reserve U
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: eliedw@hedda.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: Son of God(was Shaheed)
Organization: UiO
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 10:59:46 GMT

In article <C3D=Gt@engin.umich.edu> hani@civil4.engin.umich.edu (Hani
Abinassif) writes:
>
>In article <92320.230523U38065@uicvm.uic.edu>, Nasri <U38065@uicvm.uic.edu>
writes:
>[...]
>> I hope this will make it clearer to many of you.
>> 
>
>I think it crystal clear now.  Thank you for enlightening us:-)

it has never been intented to be clear. The church (especially the catholic
church) says this is a mistery.

To those who wish the understand the Trnity, I will tell you a story of a big
theologian (my father told it me)

This theologian once sat by the shore trying to understand the misteries of the
world and GOd. untill one little child came to the shore and dug a little whole
in the sand and ran back and fro with a small apil putting water in this whole.
THe theologian came to this child, for the child was very eagre in his work.
The man asked the child what are you doing? the child said, I am emptiying the
sea into this whole. The man excalimed: but hgow can you enpty this very large
sea into this little whole?! Then the child looked at him and said: and how do
you with your little head intend to understand the almighty?

>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Nasri,
>
>-Hani



elie wardini