HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lubkin@apollo.hp.com (David Lubkin)
Newsgroups: misc.handicap
Subject: Computer access for stroke victim
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:48:17 GMT
Reply-To: lubkin@apollo.hp.com (David Lubkin)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA
Originator: wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com

Index Number: 24550

My father just had his fourth stroke.  It left him able to write,
but unable to read.  He also has no motor control on the right side
of his body.  He seems to be improving, but slowly.  He can wiggle
his fingers, and read "tomato ketchup".

So I have a few basic questions.  If there's a FAQ somewhere that
answers them, please point me at it.  Otherwise, please reply to me
privately.

1.  What are the software and hardware options for screen readers?

2.  Where are there public Kurtzweil readers in the DC area?

3.  Are there any outfits that loan, lease, subsidize, or otherwise
    make it possible for people to get their own without megabucks?
    Will they care that he's not blind?  FYI, he's also a retired Army
    officer, so I could believe there's a VA program he's eligible
    for.

4.  Is Kurtzweil still the way to go, or are there now
    competitors?  Does he have a low-end machine?  Has the price
    dropped?  (Last I heard, it was around $35K.)

5.  For reading on the cheap, how about combining a hand scanner
    with a screen reader?

And any other bits of advise you have on how he can cope with the
situation.

Thank you all....

-- David Lubkin.

========================= lubkin@apollo.hp.com =========================
No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in
session.  -- Judge Gideon Tucker
========================================================================
From: Pandora.Nigh@p0.f554.n157.z1.fidonet.org (Pandora Nigh)
Newsgroups: misc.handicap
Subject: Re: Jerry's Orphans Needs You!
Date: 6 Oct 92 21:00:17 GMT
Reply-To: Pandora.Nigh@p0.f554.n157.z1.fidonet.org
Organization: FidoNet node 1:157/554.0 - Analytical Engine B, Willoughby OH
Originator: wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com

Index Number: 24640

 -=> Quoting Gary Warren to Pandora Nigh <=-

     Hi Gary,

 GW> I believe the 3/4ths figure was from a consumer organization, and was
 GW> based on a national average.  Also, Lewis kept harping yesterday that
 GW> MDA spent 75 percent on services.  So, until we get actual figures

I don't know how acurate his figure was either but it probably
includes as services their research budget. The majority of their
money goes to research.  In some agencies the only client service
they basically do is research. JDF is one such agency. Almost all
of their client service money is into research.  MDA runs several
Medical Clinics across the country. While they do provide paitient
care their main purpose is still research. So seperating what we
would normally consider client services and the way agencies and
the government see it can be really different.

 GW> from the IRS or somewhere, who knows? Also, in the original WASHINGTON
 GW> JOURNALISM REVIEW, Nov. 91 article, from where I got my info for my
 GW> disABILITY NEWS-letter story, Piastro was trying to get figures for
 GW> administrative raises from the national MDA office.  As for why she
 GW> didn't go to the IRS, the WJR story didn't say.  Maybe the IRS didn't
 GW> have those figures, or wouldn't give them to her for some reason.

Well she went to the wrong place to begin with, MDA doesn't have to
personaly give her that. IRS does have that info. All 501.c3
organizations must file a yearly 990-PF form or they lose their
non-profit status. IRS will make them available to you if you pay
the fees for them.

GW> Perhaps one of us should call her (she's in CA) and ask her?
Thanks!

Well Gary, I'll let you call her and pay for the long distance phone call.
I can't see eating the cost to help her do her research for stuff she gets paid
for.
				      Pandora

... Answers: $1, Short: $5, Correct: $25, dumb looks are still free.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!157!554.0!Pandora.Nigh
Internet: Pandora.Nigh@p0.f554.n157.z1.fidonet.org
From: dwilkins@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Dawn Wilkins)
Newsgroups: misc.handicap
Subject: Wedding cake toppers w/bride & groom in wheelchairs
Date: 29 Sep 92 01:49:00 GMT
Reply-To: dwilkins@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Dawn Wilkins)
Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA
X-Fidonet: Spinal Injury Conference
Originator: wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com

Index Number: 24540

If anyone knows where I can purchase wedding cake toppers with both
the bride and groom in wheelchairs, please let me know.  My sister is
to be the Matron of Honor in a wedding next spring where these toppers
are needed.  I've made a number of phone calls and it seems none of
the normal cake decorating distributors carry these.  The only thing
the bride has asked of my sister is to find these cake toppers -- and
we haven't even had a good lead yet.  Thank you for any suggestions.

						Dawn
From: Brad.Gillespie@f24.n3602.z1.fidonet.org (Brad Gillespie)
Newsgroups: misc.handicap
Subject: Spanish
Date: 3 Oct 92 03:08:25 GMT
Reply-To: Brad.Gillespie@f24.n3602.z1.fidonet.org
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3602/24 - ADAnet One (tm) Net, Pinson AL
X-Fidonet: Blink Talk Conference
Originator: wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com

Index Number: 24616

[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

RG>Each language has it's own set of contractions. besides having it's own
RG>system for it's language to be represented in grade-1 Braille. As you
RG>can imagine it is complicated

that's for sure, even Ehglish language braille is not standardized.
There is the British Braille, and then there is BANA Braille
Authority Of North America.  I believe the goal some day is to
standardize english braille at least.

===
 * SLMR 2.1a * Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted!
 * QNet3 * <ADANET> Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario - (416)798-4713

 # Origin: ADAnet(tm) NetHub Birmingham, Alabama (205)854-9074  (94:94/1)

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!3602!24!Brad.Gillespie
Internet: Brad.Gillespie@f24.n3602.z1.fidonet.org
From: Pandora.Nigh@p0.f554.n157.z1.fidonet.org (Pandora Nigh)
Newsgroups: misc.handicap
Subject: Re: Use of advanced tech and sign language
Date: 6 Oct 92 21:00:28 GMT
Reply-To: Pandora.Nigh@p0.f554.n157.z1.fidonet.org
Organization: FidoNet node 1:157/554.0 - Analytical Engine B, Willoughby OH
Originator: wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com

Index Number: 24641

 -=> Quoting Robert Zakon to All <=-

    Hi Robert, some thought, comment and clarification on your post.

 RZ> of those who
 RZ> could not speak.
 RZ> My next thought was in regards to how they communicate and sign
 RZ> language came to mind.
      Well, some do use sign language, those that usually have a hearing
impairment as well. Other use portable speech synthesis devices such as those
manufactured by Prenke-Romiche. Basically they are either a set of voice taped
messages or words that are pulled up from a touch board menu or a synthesized
computer voice. Like any keyboard you can make each key supply a number or
different words or spell words by shifting or hit series. Keyboards can be
operated by hand, mouthstick or head attached light pointer. Alot of the people
that can't vocalize speech also can't work hands very well.For example some
people with C.P, certain forms of MD some quadriplegics as well as a host of
other disorders. So sign language as a means of communication is worthless for
them.

 RZ> Now, wouldn't it be interesting to have the
 RZ> computer recognize sign language.  Some research has been done in
 RZ> gesture analyzers via camera input, but instead, let's take a
 RZ> slightly easier technology to access: power gloves.  These gloves
 RZ> which are generally used in virtual reality, could possibly be used
 RZ> for identifying sign language symbols (hand motions).
    Intresting yes, but viable and neccessary I don't think so. You could input
into your computer by typeing just as easily as using a glove and a heck of a
lot cheaper. But the use of a glove for interfacing could be used to by pass a
keyboard and a mouse and maybe easier to use for a lot of people as opposed to
a mouse or holding a stick in your hand to punch out keys.

 RZ> Any thoughts on this, such as shortcomings or research that may
 RZ> already be out there?
 RZ>
 RZ> The above has been some rantings from about 5 minutes of thought.
 RZ> As such, any comments would be appreciated.  As I do not frequently
 RZ> read these groups, to contact me, e-mail directly to
 RZ> rzakon@mitre.org or hobbes@Hobbes.cwru.edu

    I am posting this both on the Abled and to you in net-mail hoping to get
some feed back on my thought process from the others on this echo. You should
visit us more often and you can learn about a lot of the technology outthere
now and what we use and what we think of it. Of course as a bonus you'll get
to meet alot of nice and intresting people.
                                             Pandora

... Nice computers don't go down.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!157!554.0!Pandora.Nigh
Internet: Pandora.Nigh@p0.f554.n157.z1.fidonet.org
From: Jean-Pierre.Beland@f41.n243.z1.fidonet.org (Jean-Pierre Beland)
Newsgroups: misc.handicap
Subject: bowling
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:59:52 GMT
Reply-To: Jean-Pierre.Beland@f41.n243.z1.fidonet.org
Organization: FidoNet node 1:243/41 - The SugarBush, Gloucester ON
Originator: wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com

Index Number: 24638

Hi! Bill,

 > In that case, here's my question.  How in the world do you
 > bowl
 > sitting down?  That must be a bit of a challenge.

We use  a wooden ramp to roll the ball onto the alley.  I sometimes
"throw" the ball with my hand sitting down, but since my right arm
is weak it does not take long for it to be tired, so I use that
ramp.  I thought that it might be easy, but it is not as you must
position the ramp so that the ball will go to the right place.  You
still have to aim it.

 > it much, but in my school days I used to be a pin setter.  Do

I did pin setting a few times as there was no pin boy available but
I never did it as a job.  I don't think that I would have done it
because those pins sure can fly.  I liked it better when the
bowling lanes were not automatic.

Well, have a nice week-end,

cheers, J.P.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!243!41!Jean-Pierre.Beland
Internet: Jean-Pierre.Beland@f41.n243.z1.fidonet.org
From: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org (Arthur Saus)
Newsgroups: misc.handicap
Subject: Pain
Date: 6 Oct 92 21:04:18 GMT
Reply-To: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org
Organization: FidoNet node 1:376/72.160 - Windows of the Worl, Columbia SC
Originator: wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com

Index Number: 24671

[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Hello Nadine!

06 Sep 92, Nadine Thomas writes to Mary Frost:

 NT> I wanted to say that one of the NON-addictive pain medications
 NT> that does work is called Toridal (not sure on the spelling).  The only
 NT> problem with it is that it is only in injectable form.

Not any more!  Toradol is now available as a pill also.  The oral
form has only been available a few months, and suprisingly, the
dose is less than the dose needed for the injectable form.  It
seems that the oral form also offers good pain relief, just like
the injectable form.

Arthur

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!376!72.160!Arthur.Saus
Internet: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org
From: Jackie.Burtch@p19.f645.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Jackie Burtch)
Newsgroups: misc.handicap
Subject: Re: RSD Group
Date: 6 Oct 92 21:05:53 GMT
Reply-To: Jackie.Burtch@p19.f645.n105.z1.fidonet.org
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/645.19 - Rob's Wreck Room, Longview WA
Originator: wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com

Index Number: 24682

[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

On (18 Sep 92) Mike Lyons wrote to Dave Resnik...

 ML> laws.  It is correct that Dept. of Rehab does recognize it, but on the
 ML> legal level the Federal Govt. really doesn't acknowledge it, YET!
 ML> Also, a lot of the insurance companies don't acknowledge it either so
 ML> if you are depending on and ins. co. to help, you are going to be
 ML> fighting an uphill battle.  I will say also that not all insurance
 ML> companies are like this, but most of them are.  For everyone else out
 ML> there reading this, my Father got diagnosed, by a doctor workmans comp
 ML> sent him to, within a three month period.  Now with RSDS, the first
 ML> three months is critical.  If you can get it diagnosed and treated
 ML> within three months then there is a good chance of recovery, but after
 ML> the three months, your chance of recovery drops off dramatically with
 ML> the passage of time.  The ins. co. has fought and drug it out now for
 ML> three YEARS!  It started in my dad's left leg and has since spread to
 ML> his right leg and now we beleive that it is in both arms, his spine,
 ML> his neck and possibly even his face!  If they just could have got him
 ML> treatment immediately, he might be totaly healed, instead he is now
 ML> forced to use a wheelchair most of the time.

     Mike..  just a word of  caution..  seriously question (interrogate) your
doctor if he  in any way  tries to order  steroids for your  dads rsd..  this
happned  to  my  husband  and  the  resulting  steriods  gave  him  bilateral
avascualar necrosisof the femer heads...  not very likely but it does happen.
I know steroids  can *somtimes* help..   but  seriously ask  him risk..  vs..
hoped for benefits......sometimes..its just not worth it.  He is now 40 with
one titanium hip.. while they wait for the other one to finish crumbeling
<they want him to suffer with it as long as possible <even months matter i
guess> due to his age and size <6 ft) they do not WANT to do this until the
bitter end because he is so young.   With nothing for pain <they dont want
an addict after all> <rolling eyes>.  So the hell he has been through the
last 5 years is even worse then the rsd of the leg alone.  It caused his
massive heart attack last winter.

my best wishes to you and your dad

jackie

--
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Internet: Jackie.Burtch@p19.f645.n105.z1.fidonet.org
From: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org (Arthur Saus)
Newsgroups: misc.handicap
Subject: RSD Support Group,You, Me
Date: 6 Oct 92 21:05:47 GMT
Reply-To: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org
Organization: FidoNet node 1:376/72.160 - Windows of the Worl, Columbia SC
Originator: wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com

Index Number: 24681

[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Hello Dave!

12 Sep 92, Dave Resnik writes to Wayne Briggs:

 DR> The RSD has spread to my right arm and knees.

I don't know if you want to hear this or not, but this is not
consistant with a diagnosis of Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy.  A
real case of RSD does NOT "spread" from one extremity to another.

Arthur

--
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Internet: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org
From: Gary.Petraccaro@f12.n2610.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Petraccaro)
Newsgroups: misc.handicap
Subject: from the president of syntha-voice 3
Date: 3 Oct 92 03:06:14 GMT
Reply-To: Gary.Petraccaro@f12.n2610.z1.fidonet.org
Organization: FidoNet node 1:2610/12 - Post Road Inn, Greensburg PA
X-Fidonet: Blink Talk Conference
Originator: wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com

Index Number: 24597

[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 DT>         If I didn't know better I would think you were selling Window
 DT> Bridge.  I don't think I have every seen you defend a
 DT> product so much, and especially when the company's
 DT> reputation in the field has been far from sparkling

That's because I'm not defending the company.  I'm saying that I
want what I've given when I've ever slammed a company: facts.  I
never criticized either company just because I did or didn't like
them.  I called T.S.I. on it's pricing, and should have called them
on abandoning the original Optacon.  I may also have knocked them
on the design philosophy behind the VersaBraille.  I knocked Artic
on that keyed program to synthesizer business, on what I take to be
it's change in philosophy, and on a particular techie.  These are
fairly specific reasons.  I have not gone around talking about that
talking Optacon and saying that it's T.S.I.'s fault for getting my
hopes up.  (Btw, not saying that you have done this, just answering
your question as I understand it).

I have heard not one substantive complaint, besides the Nomad,
which said what product, version, or delivery dates were missed.
Not one.  I do not think the community is owed a demo, and have
never said that about Any product, so I'm clear on the Window
Bridge business as far as I'm concerned.  If it works, good. If it
doesn't work, we'll find something else.  Btw, has GW come out with
it's portable Sound Board?  They were supposed to around March.
Why haven't we heard about this one?  If they succeeded is it the
Second Comming?  If they didn't, is it Armagedon?

As far as I'm concerned personally, SynthaVoice has dealt fairly
with me. I've given the name, and version of the software
involved.  I want similar data.

On the representation point, I will only say that I think we had a
misunderstanding.  I do not object to anyone from SynthaVoice being
asked pertinent questions.  My problems with this topic arose when
I misunderstood and thought that Paul would be their link.  I/ve
seen before when we had a longtime user who became a rep for an
access software developer and started being a lightning rod.  This
person eventually felt compelled to leave tBlinkTalk. That, I do
not want to see happen again.  That's not to say that anyone else
can't come in and represent a company.  I hope this explains my
position.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!2610!12!Gary.Petraccaro
Internet: Gary.Petraccaro@f12.n2610.z1.fidonet.org
From: jwb@vnet.ibm.com (John W Bell)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 13:12:14 EDT
Newsgroups: misc.test
Subject: Re: Testing ... Testing ....

In article <19920930.100321.657@almaden.ibm.com>,
jwb@vnet.ibm.com (John W Bell) writes:
>
>Just a test.
>

Test.................
Test................

--
John W. Bell
jwb@vnet.ibm.com
From: nomad@kronos.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Ken Shupenia)
Newsgroups: misc.test
Subject: Re: Testing
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 03:28:19 MDT
Organization: KS Computer Services, Penhold, Alberta

nomad@kronos.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Ken Shupenia) writes:

> Testing, Testing, 1, 2, 3 .......   Is this thing on????
> 
> 

  I suppose that if someone out there would send me some return Email I 
would have the answer to this.  Dave, this would be the perfect time to 
let me know that I am getting through.  The test runs in misc.test seem 
to come in OK, but I have not gotten any reply to the Email that I sent.  


Ken Shupenia                                |
The Nomad@Kronos, Penhold _Alta (Citadel)   |
nomad@kronos.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Internet)| 
Hey You! (Guy across the street)            |
From: Curtis@quest.uucp
Newsgroups: misc.test
Subject: Weenie Convention
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:15:39 GMT
Organization: Quest Research


This is a test......



-- 
Jeffrey Comstock 
EXT 231
From: rice@cray.com (Jonathan Rice)
Newsgroups: misc.test
Subject: yawn
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:31:20 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.


The usual.
Xref: sparky misc.test:11253 talk.bizarre:31778 rec.arts.startrek.misc:9711
From: pynq@quads.uchicago.edu (George Jetson)
Newsgroups: misc.test,talk.bizarre,rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: "Lost In Space" was better
Date: 27 Sep 92 02:24:29 GMT
Reply-To: pynq@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: D. J. Dougherty & Associates

In article <1992Sep26.232225.10792@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>I don't see what's so special about Star Trek.  "Lost in Space" was
>clearly superior, but you don't see five newsgroups devoted to Tobor.

Agreed, but who is "Tobor"?

Anyway, ST was just one of those things that inspired a small but
fiercely loyal group of fans.  Also, trekkies are strongly
overrepresented among the ranks of computer people ('specially netters).

You could probably get a government grant to study the relationship
between the newsgroups that people read and where they stand on the
"LIS <-> ST" question.  My bet is AFUers will tend to be LISers,
but comp.lang.c'ers (inter alia) will tend to be STers.

(I should add that comp.lang.c contains some of the most anal-retentive,
and parental people I have ever observed.  Such are trekies...)

************************************************************************
A note to new readers:  the weasely :-) symbol is frowned upon in this
group.  Any questions, see Phil Gustafson who will gladly rearrange your
diodes for you.
			- From the AFU FAQ -

	- pynq@quads.uchicago.edu, who is still costing the net
	  hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars, every time he posts -
************************************************************************
From: kherren@anselm.uucp (Ken "Bam Bam" Herren)
Newsgroups: misc.test
Subject: Test
Keywords: Test
Date: 5 Oct 92 19:45:35 GMT
Organization: Saint Anselm College, Manchester, NH

TestTestTest

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10

Testing
From: Peter.Kocourek@p13.f112.n100.z60.wlink.nl (Peter Kocourek)
Newsgroups: misc.test
Subject: A test, what else?
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:40:20 GMT

This is obviously a test.


YHS:QSI!
Newsgroups: misc.test
From: ericb@atherton.com (Eric Black)
Subject: Once more
Reply-To: ericb@athertn.Atherton.COM (Eric Black)
Organization: Atherton Technology, Inc.
Distribution: ba
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:39:58 GMT

...into the breech...

-- 
Eric Black      "Garbage in, Gospel out"
Mirador Computing Systems, P. O. Box 308, La Honda, CA   94020   USA
  Email: eric@Mirador.COM    Voice: +1 415 747 0101   FAX:  +1 415 747 0101
From: joeb@pdnfido.fidonet.org (Joe Beiter)
Newsgroups: misc.test
Subject: test
Date: 28 Sep 92 02:04:25 GMT
Organization: The Source for Source

another test from pdn

-- 
-=@=-=@=-=@=-=@=-::
- JoeB           Joe.Beiter@HauppaugeNY.NCR.COM
                 joeb@pdnfido.fidonet.org
-=@=-=@=-=@=-=@=-::
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Newsgroups: misc.test
Subject: one more test
Keywords: 8832
Date: 28 Sep 92 14:36:29 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi
Originator: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu

test
-- 

Donald R. Newcomb
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet  
Newsgroups: misc.test
From: armand@comm.mot.com (Arman Dolikian)
Subject: Testing Coverage
Organization: Motorola 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 05:05:56 GMT
Followup-To: misc.test



Arman Dolikian       armand@comm.mot.com
From: grus@simpukka.funet.fi (Kurki Teemu)
Newsgroups: misc.test
Subject: Teemu testaa !!
Date: 28 Sep 1992 12:34:24 +0200
Organization: Tampere University of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: simpukka.funet.fi


Tervehdys ! 


-- 

Teemu Kurki 	alias grus@funet.fi
From: thepope@bigboy (Michael Kohne)
Newsgroups: misc.test
Subject: test2 from bigboy
Date: 6 Oct 92 22:13:58 GMT
Organization: Temple University

second test post from bigboy
From: rindone@ribo.harvard.edu (Wayne Rindone)
Newsgroups: misc.test
Subject: harvard test
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:35:13 GMT
Distribution: misc
Organization: Harvard Genome Laboratory

Harvard test
Newsgroups: misc.test
From: nar@eris.cs.wayne.edu (Nagarajan Ramesh)
Subject: testing
Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit, MI
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:56:52 GMT


this is a test

-- 
Nagarajan Ramesh                !   internet- nar@cs.wayne.edu
Dept. of Computer Science	!   uucp    - ..!umich!wsu-cs!nar
Wayne State University, 	!   Phone: (313)-577-2477 
Detroit  MI 48202 		!   Fax  : (313)-577-6868
Newsgroups: misc.test
From: apx@avalon.cec.edu.au (Andrew Pam)
Subject: here is a sample message
Organization: Pro-Net Australia
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 05:56:06 GMT

With stuff in it.

Andrew Pam INET: apx@tanus.oz.au, apx@avalon.cec.edu.au, Avatar@csource.oz.au
           FidoNet: Avatar, 3:632/358     RainbowNet: Avatar, 199:4242/1
Newsgroups: misc.test