HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: News from the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Date: 8 Jan 93 10:08:36 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1993Jan7.162321.166@vms.huji.ac.il> backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
~> It might be interesting to publish the standard American or British
~> police or military response to someone running at them.
~
~
~THEY SHOOT TO KILL !!!!!

Sources, please.

~You mean in democratic Amerika ???? Where the Supreme Court ruled that it's OK
~to execute a retarded 15 year old black boy convicted of murder ?
~
~I'm sure that if American police or National Guard units had to face ONE TENTH
~the ferocity of the Palestinian Intifada there would be a bloodbath.

Heavens, I agree with Dr. Backon. But then the US is hardly a model for the
world to follow in its treatment of criminals, is it?




-- 
===Jeremy Henderson===jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk=          

This message cost the net hundreds if not thousands of dollars.
Bloody good value if you ask me.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Irish Catholic Racism
Date: 5 Jan 1993 13:20:10 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


Hey, Wayne.  Do you get the picture?  Do you understand that when
you refer to one person who you regard as a racist, and label the
post 'Israeli racism,' that it is YOU who is being the racist?  

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Deportation vs. Murder
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 21:15:33 GMT

In article <1idkj6INN7h7@life.ai.mit.edu> gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mercenary Programmer) writes:

>Then the Bible is explicitly wrong.  Abraham had two sons.  Ishmael
>is the father of the Arabs; you know that as well as I do.  To claim
>that Arabs are not the children of Abraham is idiotic in the extreme.

The Bible also describes how Abraham arranged to sacrifice his
favorite son, Isaac.  Muslims claim that this is a historical fiction
foisted upon us by Christians and Jews and that Abraham really
prepared to sacrifice Ishmael.  Muslim claims that "the Bible is
explicitly wrong" are not new.

>I find it interesting that you call the occupied territories Israel.
>Even the Israeli government does not do that.

They call it "Judea and Samaria", the proper Biblical names for those areas.
In recent years, it had also been renamed the West Bank of Palestine
and Trans-Jordan and more recently Palestine, though this is primarily
the viewpoint of people who regularly claim that "the Bible is
explicitly wrong".

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24881 talk.politics.soviet:10264 soc.rights.human:4732
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.lebanon,soc.culture.afghanistan,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Leaving
Date: 7 Jan 93 01:34:28 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

I was requested to post the following article:


From: John Elghani <nkjle@devnet.la.locus.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 00:42:25 -0800 (PST)
-----------------------

Well,

This is my last email on the net due to connection loss.  For everyone 
that I've allied or battled with, have a good life.  I'll miss
all of you, I'll miss reminding all of you of the fact that 
Palestine is a stolen land, and Israel is illegally established 
on that land, and justice shall prevail Insha`ALLAH.  

REMINDER TO ALL MUSLIMS:  "WA EDDO LAHOM MASTATATOM MIN QUWWATIN WA MIN RIBAT
ALKHAIL TORHIBOONA BIHI ADOWWA ALLAHI WA ADOWWAKOM"  SADAQA ALLAH AL AZEEM.

Special GOOD bye to my confrontors:  Eric Perlman, Jake, Nevo, Tseil,
Danny Keren, Nora, Elie Wardini, Elie Mourad, ...etc.

Special Good fighting luck to:  Hamza, Mazen, Anisa, Rached, Sandra,
Khaled, Iliyas Bidra (sp?), Mariam, Rita Houmsy, (Nabeel) ...etc.

I'll be married soon, and I'll be moving back to Lebanon soon too.  WISH ME
GOOD LUCK.

ASSALAMO ALAIKUM and Good Bye.

jle
From: gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Basalat Ali Raja)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: No, This is the Quote of the year
Date: 8 Jan 1993 22:28:27 GMT
Organization: Free Software Foundation
NNTP-Posting-Host: spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article <8826.7349@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> bobc@bandit.swdc.stratus.com (Bob Christ) writes:

>Marwan,
>
>He's quite correct.  Open your dictionary... about the middle of the `a'
>section.  Now find "anti-", and look down the list and you'll find
>"anti-Semite".

While we're doing the dictionary thing, could you look
up "recursion" for me as well?  Thanks.  It's under "R".

Gwydion.
From: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: israel vs. the world
Date: 6 Jan 93 14:04:21 EST
Reply-To: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Distribution: talk
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

To: Danny Keren

 DK> I have read Leibowitz, I have heard Leibowitz, I have talked
 DK> with Leibowitz.

And Danny, you are no Leibowitz. <g>

 DK> Undoubtedly, he is a very unique person who posseses
 DK> extraordinary gifts. He is also a person who takes very
 DK> extreme opinions on various issues, and tends to abstract
 DK> situations into absurd black vs. white confrontations.

This is not very substantive criticism, Danny. Your description
bears no resemblance to the Harvard University Press book I just
read.

Why don't you try to produce some substantive criticism of
specific passages in the book. Give me the page numbers and your
commentary.

 WM> The day you lose your Leibowitz's, Harkabi's and Neusner's
 WM> is the day that Israel is going to be finished.

 DK> Take a valium, you seem to be losing it, Rabbi Mcguire. Even
 DK> if they leave us, we still have you and Henderson to be our
 DK> voice of reason and compassion.

You know what I find amazing, Danny? There is always a good deal
of anxiety in the Jewish community, and understandably so, to
read threats in the environment, often when they are not really
there.

But now when Jews have a really monster threat in front of them,
many of them are clueless.

If the basic bond of respect and friendship between the U.S. and
Israel, and the democratic West and Israel, snaps, it is not
likely to repaired again in the lifetime of this planet. The
consequences of such a break would be quite severe for Israel.

Do you really think you have a handle on what non-Jewish opinion
elites in the West are secretly feeling and thinking about Israel
these days?
---
  OLX 3.01 31-2557  Bar Kokhba had chutzpah.
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24973 alt.revisionism:877 soc.history:10604
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,alt.revisionism,soc.history
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Auschwitz - The Death Factory
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 20:13:22 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1993Jan07.130105.22036@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay) writes:

>  The extermination plant with the most advanced design anywhere in the
>world consisted of two large crematoria/gas chambers and two smaller ones.
>Crematoria Four and Five were built on the surface of the ground.
>Crematoria Two and Three had subteranian gas chambers and reception areas.
>They were about 102 meters long by 51 meters across.  The basement

And consider this one:

 Source: "Mitteilungsblatt, Berlin, December 1939, Nr. 2 and 5-6"

 Yet another historical fact: a fact that for years has been deliberately 
 forgotten, concealed, and wiped from memory - the fact of Armenian-Nazi 
 collaboration.

 A magazine called Mitteilungsblatt der Deutsch-Armenischen Gesselschaft
 is the clearest and most definite proof of this collaboration. The 
 magazine was first published in Berlin in 1938 during Nazi rule of Germany
 and continued publication until the end of 1944. Even the name of the
 magazine, which implies a declaration of Armenian-Nazi cooperation,
 is attention-getting.

 This magazine, every issue of which proves the collaboration, is historically
 important as documentary evidence. It is a heap of writing that should be
 an admonition to world opinion and to all mankind. Every issue embroiders
 the themes of enmity towards Turkey and towards Turks.

 In Nazi Germany, Armenians were considered to be an Aryan race and certain
 political, economic, and social rights were thus granted to them. They 
 occupied positions in public service and were partners in Nazi practices.
 The whole world of course knows what awaited those who were not considered 
 "Aryan" and what befell them.


Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)


Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:25078 talk.politics.soviet:10344 soc.history:10626
From: bv652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ilan Uri Woll)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.history
Subject: Re: What would I do if "wollian/perlmanian" were not genocide apologists?
Date: 10 Jan 1993 06:30:17 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bv652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ilan Uri Woll)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, sera@zuma.UUCP (The Ghost ofSerdar Argic) says:

>In article <1ij70mINNr8c@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bv652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ilan Uri Woll) writes:
>
>>In a flash of hot air he was gone.
>
>Your criminal handlers at the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism Triangle will 
>give you looks of respect. You will be escorted "hela" in quiet triumph.
>But more than that. From this time forward, you may ignore your brain 
>cells, gutters and downspouts.

Uh, yeah, whatever.

>>Serdar argic aka Hassan Mutlu, was
>>executed today by exceedingly slow
>>and painful torture by the prime
>>ministers of Greece and Armenia, as
>>well as Eric Perlman and Ilan Woll
>
>There are times when the simplest of events call all of one's
>existential motives into question. What would I do if you and
>"perlmanian" were not x-Soviet "wieneramus"? What would I do
>if you were blind. What would I do you if you crooks were not
>genocide apologists and historical revisionists?

Play with yourself as always.

>Source: Documents: Volume I (1919).
>        "Document No: 15," Archive No: 1/2, Cabin No: 113, Drawer 
>        No: 3, File No: 520, Section No: 2024, Contents No: 11-1; 11-3.
>        (19 Feb 330 '4 March 1915', District Governor Kemal)
>
>"List of male inhabitants of Mergehu Village murdered or annihilated 
> with the utmost savagery by local Armenians who joined Armenian gangs
> strengthening the Russian Forces:
>

Look, for just one second I'll be serious, if this really happened, I'm
upset it happened, but frankly, I think you made up the source and
info.
-- 
---  !      ^    !\  !
 !   !     /-\   ! \ !
___  !__  /   \  !  \!  
                        Avoid cliches like the plague" George Shaw
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:25130 soc.culture.arabic:6455 soc.culture.lebanon:5538
From: revans@euclid.ucsd.edu (Ron Evans)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Are Lebanese considered ARABS (J. LAWEN a PALESTINIAN)
Date: 11 Jan 93 08:45:31 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast


 <1993Jan11.065124.26726@mcs.kent.edu> rayes@Goat.mcs.kent.edu (Sandra Rayes):

>As a westerner, listening to this back and forth between ARAB brothers
>only makes me think 'Boy, those French colonists sure did an outstanding
>job dividing a nation amongst itself'.  I know some Christian Lebanese
>who prefer to call themselves "Phoenicians", rather than Arabs and this
>makes me, a non-Arab, sick at heart to see the residual effects of
>Western colonialsim still alive and well today.  

	Is it also sickening to hear Lebanese speaking French?

>Fact is, the Lebanese,
>regardless of religion, are Arabs and therefore have a rich history,
>language and culture which is inspiring.  So what the hell is your
>problem, Br. LAWEN????

	This is a bit like saying the Canadians are European.
	There are sizable non-Arab ethnic groups in Lebanon,
	including Kurds and Armenians, that make up perhaps
	7% of the population.
-- 
Ron Evans (revans@math.ucsd.edu)
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: News from the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:56:22 GMT

In article <29951@castle.ed.ac.uk> jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) writes:

# In article <1993Jan6.184351.11245@beaver.cs.washington.edu> aberman@cs.washington.edu (Andrew Berman) writes:

# ~In article <29915@castle.ed.ac.uk> jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) writes:

# ~>~Or maybe ask the arabs to stop sending small children to the streets to throw
# ~>~stones.

# ~>Assuming, for the sake of argument, that your supposition is correct, it
# ~>is strange that Israeli response to child abuse is to shoot the victims,
# ~>rather than punish the abusers.

# ~Uh, the Israeli response to child abuse is to arrest the abusers when
# ~evidence exists.

# ~The Israeli response to having stones thrown at them in a riot is to
# ~break up the riot.  That the stones thrown are a result of child abuse
# ~is secondary at this point.

# ~The Israeli soldier reponse to a clear threat (i.e., someone running at you)
# ~	1) Yell (in Arabic) that the offender should halt.
# ~	2) Yell again in Arabic.
# ~	3) Yell a third time.
# ~	4) Shoot in the air.
# ~	5) Shoot at the ground.
# ~	6) Shoot at the legs.
# ~	7) Shoot at the body.
 
# So the little girl was killed after she'd been warned and shot in the legs?
# This story gets more and more absurd!!

	What is so absurd? and how do you know what environment the girl
was in (i.e. was she surrounded by others who were vicous threats)?
And Why didn't she just stop when she was told to?

	I do not know what is more pathetic.  The parents of the girl for
encouraging to take an action they knew might get her killed just for
the PR, or Jeremy being duped by the PR.

# ~I also heard no great outcry when a Montana teenager was sent to 30 years
# ~in prison for throwing stones at passing cars.   But I digress..
 
# I think you'd have heard an outcry if the teenager had simply been gunned down
# in the street. Can you say "Kent State"?

	Do you have ANY idea about what happened at kent State?
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
From: revans@euclid.ucsd.edu (Ron Evans)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Peace
Date: 13 Jan 93 00:52:27 GMT


 <C0r82x.7MI@apollo.hp.com> goykhman@apollo.hp.com (Red Herring) writes:

>>                   A PROPOSAL FOR PEACE  (October, 1991)
>>Israelis, Palestinians and neighboring Arab states will begin
>>by formally acknowledging each other's legitimate right to coexist
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>peacefully in respective states.  This entails official revocation
>>of the contrary passages in the PLO Charter.  Simultaneously, Israel
>>will revoke laws proclaiming the PLO as a terrorist organization,
>>and will negotiate with the PLO along with other Arab representatives,


>Do "other Arab representatives" include representatives of HAMAS?


	Please see the underlined sentence above.

	

>1) inhale
>2) close your eyes and pretend that HAMAS does not exist
>3) if no HAMAS, add your name to the list below, else goto 1)
>4) enjoy your stay in the fool's paradise, while you can


	There was and is plenty of sympathy for the Hamas
        viewpoint in Egypt, yet Israel and Egypt concluded
	a peace treaty in 1979.  

-- 
Ron Evans (revans@math.ucsd.edu)
From: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: israel as asset
Date: 9 Jan 93 11:50:54 EST
Reply-To: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Distribution: talk
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

To: Roger Carasso

 RC> "Joseph Churba, a former top Air Force intelligence official
 RC> and head of the Washington-based Center for International
 RC> Security, estimated that it would cost the United States $100
 RC> billion or more in additional spending -- and the deployment
 RC> of more than 200,000 of its own troops -- to replace Israel's
 RC> pro-U.S. strategic weight in the Middle East."
 RC>         --Myths and Facts,
 RC>          A concise Record of the Arab-Israeli Conflict,
 RC>          1989

Typical schnorring propaganda.

It's fascinating how many Israeli supporters rely on the same
handouts from AIPAC to do their "thinking" for them.

Joseph Churba was a former close associate of Rabbi Meir
Kahane--not the most objective source in the world on Mideast
politics, eh? See Robert Friedman's False Prophet for the full
background on Churba.

As Desert Storm proved, Saudi Arabia is a much more valuable
strategic asset for the U.S. in the Mideast than Israel. By your
logic, then, the U.S. should be providing MORE than $1,000 per
annum per Saudi in aid. But we don't, do we. Saudi Arabia pays
its own way.

Another hoot is that Israel supposedly repays the $3 to $4
billion in U.S. aid per year in the wonderful intelligence it
provides us. U.S. intelligence around the world and in the
Mideast is vastly superior to Israel's (that's why Israel felt it
necessary to mount the disastrous Pollard spy operation, to steal
it from us). We could pay for all of Israel's intelligence by
sharing only a portion of our intelligence with her.

We share intelligence with England, France and Germany. Those
nations don't turn around and demand extravagant financial
handouts from us on top of the intelligence they receive. They
understand the nature of a fair trade in the context of shared
values and interests. Israel lacks that understanding.

Instead of finding reasons to justify the U.S. giving Israel
extravagant handouts, bogus reasons which insult our
intelligence, you should be urging Israel to get off the American
dole immediately. That would be a useful first step in improving
the climate of relations between the U.S. and Israel and in
helping Israel to acquire some self-respect and pride as a truly
independent nation.
---
  OLX 3.01 31-2557  Confuse not raving ethnonarcissism with moral gravity.
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24969 soc.rights.human:4738
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.rights.human
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Can anyone answer a real quick, simple question?
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 20:06:24 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1igkoeINN552@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bv652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ilan Uri Woll) writes:

>As well, you know damn well that stabbings, letter bombing, and other forms
>of terrorism are regular acts 
>by Hamas and other Palestinian groups.

Coming from a self-admitted genocide apologist who has shared a common 
purpose with the criminal members of the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism Triangle, 
it is rather amusing. Tell me "wollian", were you high on "uri-ne" when
you wrote that?

 "...that more people have to die..." 

                          SDPA <91@urartu.UUCP>

  "Yes, I stated this and stand by it."

                          SDPA <255@urartu.UUCP>

    	March 22, 1982 - Cambridge, Massachusetts
	Prelude to grisly murder. A gift and import shop belonging to
	Orhan Gunduz, the honorary Turkish consul in Boston, is blown up.
	Gunduz receives an ultimatum: Either he gives up his honorary 
	position or he will be "executed". He refuses. "Responsibility" - 
	the word seems to cringe when used in such a context - is claimed 
	by JCAG.

    	March 26, 1982 - Beirut
	Two dead, sixteen injured in an explosion at a movie theater (which
	frequently shows Turkish films). ASALA claims credit for the attack.

    	April 8, 1982 - Ottawa
	Kani Gungor, the commercial attache at the Turkish Embassy in Ottawa,
	is seriously wounded in an attack by Armenian terrorists in the 
	garage of his apartment house. ASALA claims responsibility.

    	April 24, 1982 - Dortmund, West Germany
	Several Turkish-owned businesses suffer extensive damage in bomb 
	attacks. The "New Armenian Resistance Organization" claims 
	responsibility.

    	May 4, 1982 - Cambridge, Massachusetts
	Orhan Gunduz, the Turkish honorary consul in Boston, would not bow 
	to the Armenian terrorist ultimatum that he give up his title of 
	"honorary consul". Now he is attacked and murdered in cold blood.
	President Reagan orders an all-out manhunt-to no avail. An eye-
	witness who gave a description of the murderer is shot down.  He 
	survives... but falls silent. One of the most revolting "triumphs" in 
	the senseless, mindless history of Armenian terrorism. Such a murder 
	brings absolutely nothing - except an ego boost for the murderer 
	within the Armenian terrorist underworld, which is already wallowing 
	in self-satisfaction.
 
Serdar Argic

                           'We closed the roads and mountain passes that 
                            might serve as ways of escape for the Turks 
                            and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
                           'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists 
                            a single Turkish soul.'    (Sahak Melkonian)
From: adam@endor.uucp (Adam Shostack)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: jews as a race
Date: 13 Jan 93 00:25:50 GMT
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University

In article <C0qGHF.71s@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> kgivon@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (karen lee givon) writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.1777.22395@channel1> "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:
>>The argument that anyone in the world can convert to Judaism
>>strikes me as somewhat bogus, even as a public relations gimmick
>>devised with the recognition that racial notions of Jewishness
>>haven't gone over very well with the non-Jewish world. In the
>>real world, conversions are discouraged and are few and far
>>between. 

>These converts are some of the most well respected members of the
>congregation.   Among them have been presidents of the synagogue,
>presidents of our Hadassah chapter, presidents of our sisterhood, and
>chairpersons of the most important committees in the synagogue. 

Actually, these statements are not contradictory, probably much to
everyones dismay. :)

Conversion is discouraged under halacha.  Judaism is based on
responsibilities.  For someone to convert, they are agreeing to take
on quite a few responsibilities. (Sabbath and kosher laws come to
mind.)  They must understand the full weight of what they are
attempting. 

However, once they do convert, they are treated with great respect,
exactly because they have examined the requirements and
responsibilities, and chosen to accept them.

Adam
Adam Shostack 					adam@das.harvard.edu

What a terrible thing to have lost one's .sig.  Or not to have a .sig
at all.  How true that is.