HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: SCIA (Is a new CFV really needed ?)
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:10:58 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <CKD.92Apr14202551@loiosh.eff.org>, ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis) writes:
> 
> Free clue: Try the usa.* hierarchy, then, instead of creating the group
> in the Big Seven.


There is no USA.* hierarchy as yet. Perhaps there should be one ?

> --
> Christopher Davis <ckd@eff.org> |    ECONOMIC OBSERVATIONS DEPARTMENT

Alok
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: SCIA ( Is a new CFV really needed ?)
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:23:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <kujm85INNlcb@male.EBay.Sun.COM>, duane@thismoment.EBay.Sun.COM (Duane Day) writes:
> In article <1992Apr13.180314.26965@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
> >> 
> >> (One wonders in passing why the "failed" verdict would require a 2/3
> >> majority.)
> >> 
> >
> >Because it is like overturning a veto. I am vetoeing the new RFD/CFV
> >as the proposer/vote-taker of the first RFD/CFV which is being questioned.
> >To overturn my veto, at least 2/3 of the votes should be against my 
> >position.
> 
> Great - now Alok fancies himself President.
> 
> I eagerly await his announcement that he has promoted himself to "God".
> 
> Give it a rest.
> 
> --

Listen,

I am just a simple human being caught in this mess.
However I do have a right to a hearing from the net.lords (the users !!!)

So the net.lords:

I am giving a chance to you all to correct me, if I did something wrong.

A Straw POLL will be posted in 48 hours time.

I am still debating with myself whether to have the 'invalid' option
along with '(No Revote) passed', '(Revote) failed'.

Any help will be appreciated. Please send email, as I do not want to start
another discussion on this issue.

Thanks very much for your tolerance.

Alok
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: nolan@helios.unl.edu (Michael Nolan)
Subject: Re:  CFV rec.arts.fine-arts.d
Reply-To: nolan@helios.unl.edu
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Date:  7 Apr 92 19:34:09 GMT


Lawrence Leff, in <1992Apr6.172126.288@uunet.uu.net> says:

>This is a Call For Votes for the news group
>
>rec.pictures.fine-art.d
[voting procedures deleted]>
>This will be a MODERATED group

Uh, is this a first--a MODERATED .d group?  I couldn't find one in my active
file.

>This group serves three purposes--
>  a) to organize the distribution of graphics images of *original* art works
>     created by the poster
>  b) to organize the distribution of graphics images created with computer
>     graphics techniques, again, created by the poster
>  c) to discuss applications of computers to the creation of artworks
>
>However, the images will NOT be posted to the proposed group.  They will
>be available in two alt groups:
>     alt.binaries.pictures.fine-art.graphics 
>     alt.binaries.pictures.fine-art.digitized

Wait a minute!  A 'rec' group devoted to talking about stuff in an 'alt' group?
Surely another net.first!

Where were the net.police when this was proposed?  Both of these seem like
clear violations of the spirit of Usenet.  Vote NO!  

(This is the first time I can *ever* recall voting no on a proposed newsgroup,
or this good a reason to!)
---
Michael Nolan
nolan@helios.unl.edu, nolan@tssi.com
<<< dis.sigfectant Ver 1.0b1: remove the .sig virus from your .sig NOW!!
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: puerta@mcs-next-10.stanford.edu (Angel Puerta)
Subject: NO CFV - Creation of a hierarchy in soc.culture.europe
Reply-To: puerta@camis.stanford.edu
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 19:26:21 GMT

===========================================================================

After a  discussion period of 25 days, there is widespread consensus that the  
creation of a hierarchy of groups in soc.culture.europe is not appropriate at  
this time.

Original RFD follows:

ON THE CREATION OF A SOC.CULTURE.EUROPE HIERARCHY

I propose the creation of a soc.culture.europe hierarchy that better  
reflects the political realities of the European geography as well as the  
interest of the readers of soc.culture.europe. Within the present format,  
there is a polarization of discussion topics with the poles set up by  
clear geographic boundaries. Unfortunately, discussions centered around  
one of the geographic poles seem to create little interest and a lot of  
antagonism from readers interested on discussions centered around the  
other pole. It is appropriate then to hierarchycally provide a venue for  
these two poles to discuss European issues that center around each of the  
poles without the perceived interference of the postings centered around  
the opposite pole.


Following are the proposed subgroups:

1. soc.culture.europe.western

This subgroup will follow the charter of soc.culture.europe but will  
concentrate on issues pertaining to countries geographically situated in  
Western Europe. These countries include those that are situated west, or  
mostly west, of the 16th Meridian east of Greenwich, and those countries  
for which the majority of their population lives west of the 16th Meridian  
east of Greenwhich. Under this description, the countries included in and  
forming the eastern boundary of soc.culture.europe.western from North to  
South are: Sweden, Germany, Austria, and Italy.

2. soc.culture.europe.eastern

This subgroup will follow the charter of soc.culture.europe but will  
concentrate on issues pertaining to countries geographically situated in  
Eastern Europe. These countries include those that are situated east, or  
mostly east, of the 16th Meridian east of Greenwich, and those countries  
for which the majority of their population lives east of the 16th Meridian  
east of Greenwhich. Under this description, the countries included in and  
forming the western boundary of soc.culture.europe.eastern from North to  
South are: Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czechoslovakia,  
Hungary, Yugoslavia (Serbia), Albania, and Greece.

Issues pertaining to both sides of the soc.culture.europe can be  
crossposted.


--
Angel Puerta
puerta@camis.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jamie@access.digex.com (James Treworgy)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.music.enya
Organization: Express Access Public Access UNIX, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 15:21:19 GMT

In article <12336@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>For how long?  All of the other (except for Phish) single artits groups are
>for groups that have established their importance in musical history.  Enya
>has all of three albums.  The amount of traffic is minimal compared to the
>amount of traffic that as been generated for other artists over the past

Fortunately the guidelines for newsgroup creation are objective and only
concern numbers for and against, rather than someone's view of importance.
If we only allowed newsgroups on topics which had "established their
importance in history", there would be very few newsgroups indeed... since
I think that most people would rather discuss current events rather than
ancient history.

I agree that before proposing a newsgroup, enya fans should start a
mailing list. It seems foolish to propose a newsgroup without any
clear indication of the demand.  But if they DO form a mailing list, and 
after a while it becomes apparent that there is a great demand, I see
no reason why they can't have a newsgroup.

>...
>I would recommend that you persue the mailing list.  

agreed.
-- 
James A. Treworgy    "And it all would be so crystal clear, if it wasn't for
jamie@digex.com         the foam..."          (jamie@sun.astro.wesleyan.edu)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.arts.sf.movies,rec.arts.comics,alt.config
From: jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap)
Subject: Re: RFD: alt.who-would-win
Followup-To: alt.config
Organization: AS&M Inc
	<1992Apr14.010937.20056@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
	<1992Apr14.050925.8490@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
	<1992Apr14.224827.25388@wpi.WPI.EDU>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 19:23:39 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.224827.25388@wpi.WPI.EDU> boisvert@wpi.WPI.EDU (Brian Richard Boisvert) writes:

   In article <1992Apr14.050925.8490@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy) writes:
   >
   >In a previous article, forbes@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (scott.forbes) says:
   >
   >>This is a formal Request For Discussion, proposing the creation of an
   >>unmoderated newsgroup:
   >>
   >>alt.who-would-win
   >
   >Here on rec.arts.comics we call it "Hoo'd Win".
   > I think.  The apostrophe might be wrong.
   >
   >Makes sense as a group.  But would enough people
   > use it?

   Who cares?  If it will get this stupid, pointless thread off this newgroup, 
   then I say go for it.  Can someone out there who knows how create alt.who-
   would-win?  I'm not sure how, but I know it isn't hard to create an alt group.

First off, discussion should be in alt.config for an alt group.  Alt rules
are basically to discuss it for a couple weeks, then if there seems to be
adequate support (for an alt group), newgroup it or ask someone (in alt.config)
to do so.  If you want the full article for alt group creation, it's posted
in news.groups and news.admin.  If it's expired, get it via anonymous ftp from
pit-manager.mit.edu:/pub/usenet/news.groups/How_(and_why)_to_create_a_new__alt__group
I found this by cd /pub/usenet then ls news.*/*[Cc]reate*, remembering that
`create' (some case) was in the subject.  Simple, yes?

[* note followup *]
--
J Lee Jaap <jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov> {+1 804/864, or FTS 928}-2148
employed by, not speaking for, AS&M Inc, at NASA LaRC, Hampton VA 23665-5225
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: The rec.arts.{comics.}manga wars continue
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:02:50 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

tkim@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Tonghyun Kim) writes:

>In article <1992Apr15.145723.27521@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
>>
>>    Ok, then if this group is for the discussion of all manga, then why
>>isn't there a provision in the RFD to remove r.a.anime, since all anime
>>are indistinguishable from manga?

>I didn't write the charter. The purpose of my posting was to let the
>people know that "manga" has very broad range of meanings and
>limiting it to a subset of comic is wrong. 

    I realize that. But just because a group has a name with broad
connotations, it doesn't mean that discussion within that group, defined
in the charter, has to take on the broadest possible definition. take a
look at rec.arts.books as an example. The majority of the discussion in
that group is fiction, but the definition of a book is broad beyond
belief. 

>I guess you didn't read my follow-up message(s). I suggested that
>rec.arts.comics.ASIAN would be a better choice than
>rec.arts.comics.manga since r.a.c.a will be more logical and less
>confusing than r.a.c.m. 

    How could I read your follow up before it was posted. When this
article got to my site, I read it and replyed. I just now finished
reading your next article, which was a followup to a followup of this
article that I am replying to. (everybody follow that line of logic ;-)

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | 
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   | "DON'T TOUCH IT!! It's the History Eraser
 Mac Database Developer     |  Button, you fool!"  -- Ren
 Dartmouth Medical School   |
From: geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: MANGA STRAW POLL: rec.arts.manga wins 91 - 58
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:06:05 GMT
Reply-To: geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU
Organization: Amos Tuck School

In <1992Apr16.070013.5149@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bn510@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Matthew L. High) writes:


>91 votes for  rec.arts.manga
>58 votes for  rec.arts.comics.manga

>CONCLUSIONS:
>  By a weak majority (61%) the USENet readers would rather see
>  r.a.manga over r.a.comics.manga.

If these results came in for a full vote it wouldn't be enough to win.
It doesn't meet the requirement for a 100 more yes votes or the 2/3
requirement.

>  Discussion on the naming issue has been very heavy over the past
>  week (most of the time DOMINATING news.groups).  This straw poll
>  clearly indicates that there is support for a rec.*.manga group
>  of some sort - if only we could resolve the issue of the name.
>  Hopefully this straw poll will help in doing so.

The name is the major issue. Many people support a "manga" group but the
name is in contention. Many people who support rec.arts.manga have said
they would still vote for rec.arts.comics.manga anyway. Many people who
support rec.arts.comics.manga (including myself) have said they would vote
no to rec.arts.manga.

Changing the name would end the controversy and might also convert enough
votes to "YES" to carry the vote through successfully.

-Geoff
--
geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU  -  Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business
____________________________________________________________________________
Channel Z. All static, all |   "Great pate, mom, but I've gotta motor if I'm
day, forever. - The B-52's |    gonna make it to the funeral."   - Heathers
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: SCIA ( Is a new CFV really needed ?)
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:42:52 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr13.232323.18744@ennews.eas.asu.edu>, sridhar@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Sridhar Venkataraman) writes:
> duane@thismoment.EBay.Sun.COM (Duane Day) writes on news.groups:
> 
> )I eagerly await his announcement that he has promoted himself to "God".
> 
> Let the following quote answer your question.
> 
> " I am the light, without which there shall be darkness all around ...."

First of all it is not a quote of mine. It is a quote in one of my posts.
Quote is from those who defined the meaning of my name.

My name ALOK means the light.
Now everybody knows that without light, there will be darkness all around.

So what is all this cribbing about this quote ?!!!
Oh I see, this is the compu-nerd humor ;-)

> Sridhar.

Alok
From: thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 12 Apr 92 22:52:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.45025
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1992Apr12.191551.3562@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU writes:

>You seem to still be operating under the assumption that 'comics' means
>'western comics.'
>
[lines deleted...]

>rec.arts.comics.manga

     Unfortunately, one of the arguments has been that "manga" also referred
to all sequential art (like comics).  I believe this is a problem that had 
been and still is being discussed.

                                                            -TKH '92

P.S.  I did not think that I "disliked" western comics.  I personally enjoys
      as much as many comic collectors/readers like them.  My personal
      collection ("western" comics) is at 1000 and growing.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: rec.arts.manga...etc.....
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 22:30:01 GMT


And one more question.  If manga and comics have the equivalent
meaning, what's the use of any specific manga group?  Just put it all
in rec.arts.comics.  I don't think anyone would argue that strips
aren't really comics, they're just a more specific type of comic,
hence the rec.arts.comics.strips group.  Ditto for manga.
-- 
The history of liberty is the history of resistance ... [it is a] history of
the limitation of governmental power.  -- Woodrow Wilson
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: The rec.arts.{comics.}manga wars continue
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 07:47:25 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.221126.14860@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
>>Good point.  The group for the discussion of western comics should be
>>on the same level as the group for the discussion of asian comics.  Currently
>>the group for the discussion of western comics is rec.arts.comics.  That
>>can change, and if so, we'd be happy to move the proposed rec.arts.manga
>>too.
>    Why wait? Why not help make the move to rec.arts.comics.misc that
>much more probable by putting the manga group where it belongs, in the
>UseNet hierarchy for all comics related discussion: rec.arts.comics.*.

This is known as "begging the question".

In case you haven't noticed, the claim that it belongs in rec.arts.comics.* is
_exactly_ the point which is at issue here.  It does not make a whole lot of
sense to use such a claim to prove your point, since you are merely assuming
the answer you wish to prove.
--
This is a newer version of the memetic .signature infection.  Now that's an
idea.  Copy it into your .signature today!

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.arts.manga...etc.....
Date: 17 Apr 92 16:03:17 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair) writes:

>geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner) writes:
> >The potential for lack of crossover in a hierarchy is a good thing. It
> >reduced crossposting and makes the whole hierarchy more efficient. If a
> >*.comics.manga group has NO crossposting to rec.arts.comics I think that
> >would make the whole group creation a success.

>If none of the traffic was relevant to comics, it means that the name of
>the group would be an incredible anomaly.

    So what your saying is that there will be no discussions in
r.a.{comics}.manga dealing with Akira? You and I both know that this is
a ludicrous statement, since it is one of the biggest selling mangas in
the U.S, and I for a fact have seen discussion on Akira in alt.manga. If
you didn't understand the point Geoff was trying to make, perhaps you
should't be in this discussion.

>I thought people wanted a helpful namespace?

    We already have a fairly helpful namespace. We are just trying t
keep it that way.

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | 
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   | "DON'T TOUCH IT!! It's the History Eraser
 Mac Database Developer     |  Button, you fool!"  -- Ren
 Dartmouth Medical School   |
Date: 10 Apr 92 04:10:00 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: The rec.arts.{comics.}manga wars continue
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
 >Why?  The level of the name is not a value judgement.

rec.arts.comics          
rec.arts.comics.manga   .... manga is subordinate to comics.
                        .... manga are derived from comics.
                        .... manga are less than comics.
                        .... manga are a subset of comics.

rec.arts.comics
rec.arts.manga          .... manga sits alongside comics.
                        .... manga is an equivalent art form to comics.
                        .... manga and comics are of equal importance.


No value judgement?


 >Moving groups creates a lot more work than simply putting them where they
 >belong in the first place.

Yep.


--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.
From: durrell@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu (Cyberpixie)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.games.frp reorg - need for cyber/srun group
Date: 7 Apr 92 19:42:55 GMT
Organization: Tragically Hip Road Trip

In article <1992Apr7.171143.23746@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
>    I never said that we shouldn't inform and include in the discussion
>rec.games.cyber. Personally I feel that putting this item on tha ballot
>will be a bad thing, because no mention of what we have been discussing
>has appeared in rec.games.cyber, and to attempt to change their group
>out from under them is not a cool thing to do.

Actually, Joshua's mentioned it a couple of times in the group, 
although I don't think that changes the argument.  We should
still wait, cause it's essentially a different issue.  The issue
at hand is a spl*t, not a reorg.

Joshua suggested a 2-4 month wait to me, which seems reasonable.
We should indeed let things settle down after this vote before 
we do anything else.  Slow and steady and all that.

Waiting for the next iteration of the RFD, I remain,


--
Bryant Durrell                                    durrell@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "And I guess that I just don't know    And I guess that I just don't know"
			      -- Lou Reed
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.indian.american
From: worlds@dogstar.Colorado.edu (Mud Admin)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: rec.games.mud reorg
Date: 17 Apr 92 02:13:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: colorado.1992Apr17.021348.9257
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

goehring@mentor.cc.purdue.edu writes:
>sterling@netcom.com writes:
>
>>The only proposed moderator I've seen for such a group is Scott
>>Goehring.  For many reasons, some of them obvious to those who read
>>his recent posts in r.g.m., I would vote a strong NO for this group
>>if he moderated it.

Bruce, since most of the people who post on rgm have an active dislike
for you and your posts, you aren't helping things much if you refuse
to support something...  ;)

>>6.     rec.games.mud -> rec.games.mud.misc

>I have in the past remained silent on the other rename issues, but
>I've decided to make a statement regarding this one.  Rename it.  The
>argument that it will cause problems with sites that won't change it
>is, in my opinion, minor.  Rec.arts.startrek handled their renaming
>well enough, or so it seems.  Rec.games.mud can handle being .misc'ed.

Renaming it would force a lot of LP traffic into rgm.lp where it
belongs.  That is certainly a "good thing (tm)".  Also, if certain
sites that don't allow mudding don't carry the new group, all that
means is that we won't have to listen to them whine, or deal with
their posts asking how to 'get around' the administration.

>rec.games.mud.announce

I haven't seen anyone disagree that this group is needed.  We should
vote on it as soon as the rules allow us to.

Sulam
-- 
| This article is the individual opinion of a TMI Admin.
| The Mud Institute: dogstar.colorado.edu (128.138.248.32) 5555
|	        Ftp: 	     ""			""	   5554
| TMI serves as an information and development center for LPmuds.
From: cnh5730@maraba.tamu.edu (Charles Herrick)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: soc.personals.ads.{male,female}.{seeking-male,seeking-female}
Date: 9 Apr 92 16:07:46 GMT

Dave Hayes writes
 I have only encountered resistance from a small vocal
> minority, but I have gotten brief "yes" "we like it" "thank you"  
messages
> from a larger majority. 


a majority of Germans in World War II supported burning Jews in  
concentration camps.




Newsgroups: news.groups
From: gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
Subject: Re: Renaming some of the misc  groups.
Reply-To: gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston)
Organization: SCI Technology, Inc., Huntsville, Al.
Distribution: news
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 21:54:45 GMT

In article <JEFFT.92Apr8214919@snoopy.mit.edu> jefft@athena.mit.edu (Jeff Tang) writes:

>This is just a suggestion for a possible new heirarchy.  It strikes me that
>many of the   misc.*  groups actually would fall under the heading of
>personal  instead of misc.

In view of the amount of traffic being generated by the discussions 
re: formation of a usa.* hierarchy, and considering the volume of
articles in the list you posted, I don't think it's worthwhile.

-- 
Gary Heston    SCI Systems, Inc.  gary@sci34hub.sci.com   site admin
The Chariman of the Board and the CFO speak for SCI. I'm neither.
"Always remember, that someone, somewhere, is making a product that will
make your product obselete." Georges Doriot, founder of American R & D.
Newsgroups: news.groups