HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elise@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com (Elise Wade)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Child Security and Childcare (was Re: 20/20 and Spanking)
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:36:32 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments

In article <1992Nov10.175850.5003@nas.nasa.gov> choi@wk59.nas.nasa.gov (Diana Choi) writes:
>(Andrea Von Ahnen) writes:
>>
>>Mark Wuest wrote about a child at his church's childcare who was
>>very upset about being left with a room full of strangers while
[....]
>
>A rather old study by Ainsworth(1979) describes 3 types of behaviors 
>exhibited by children:  
>
>   Group A. Rarely cry at separation.  When reunited avoid their mothers.
>   Group B. Cry at separation but recover.  When reunited seek their mothers.
>   Group C. Cry excessively at separation.  When reunited are ambivalent,
>	    seeking and then avoiding contact.
>
>The majority, Group B, (70%)  are labeled as "securely attached", whereas the 
>other two are considered behaviorly abnormal, exhibiting signs of anxiety
>and insecureattachment. Their reactions were attributed to poor response 
>from their mothers.
>
>"Infant-Mother Attachment", Ainsworth, Mary D. S.  "American Psychologist" 34
>(1979):932-37 
>
>(Hopefully, this is my last reference to these child-psychology studies).
>
>diana

OK, so what about a baby like Melinda? She's *never* cried when
I or my husband have left her anywhere (though she came close once
when she was asleep when the hand off started).  She is delightfully
happy with the babysitter.  Then she is absolutely delighted to be
picked up by myself or my husband & actively seeks attention & interplay.

I keep expecting her to develop seperation anxiety, I guess 5 1/2
months is a bit early yet.  But, she clearly recognizes different
people & does respond differently.  I never guessed they made babies
like this.  

Elise.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: rollo@xylogics.com (Dena Rollo)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: New York City (was Re: Does Anyone draw their own blood?)
Date: 12 Nov 1992 08:00:11 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


Clare Chu writes:


Betsy, Thanks for your note.  Unfortunately this is New York City.
I wish I could be pregnant in California where the midwives are nicer.

and


Then I get this business-like, fast-New-York-accent female doctor


and


So there you have it, a nutty place to give birth.


among other nasty things about NYC.


****************

As a New Yorker born and bred, I'm getting
pretty sick of this!!! Clare, you've got to 
be kidding if you think great OB care cannot
be had in NYC,or that people from other parts
of the country don't have their share of
horror stories.

And, FYI, a study done recently found
that *Bostonians* are the rudest people
in the country :) (though they don't seem
that rude to me, but that's probably
because I'm from NY ;)

Anyway, I hope you get your wish and get
to move back to wonderful, fantastic,
perfect California, where you can regale
your friends with the gruesome details
of life on the hellish East Coast.


(sorry to interrupt this news group, but I
could no longer take this NY-bashing lying
down)

Dena (proud to be from Queens) Rollo

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Subject: Re: Alternatives to Lashing Out
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 00:49:51 GMT

In article <1992Nov3.205117.14859@cs.brown.edu> mhn@cs.brown.edu (Marian H. Nodine) writes:
>
>So who here wants to offer twelve alternatives for what to do *after you
>are calm*?
>

1) Determine what it was that made you angry.  Are you in a power struggle?
Did your child push one of your emotional buttons?  Are you taking upon
yourself responsibility for your child's actions above and beyond what is
reasonable?

2) Decide if this is a battle worth fighting.  I find that narrowing
down behavior that needs changing to 5 specific behaviors helpful.  If
the behavior is not on the list, should it be?  

3) Ask yourself whether you have discussed this behavior with your child and
if your child understands the consequences.

4) If the answer to 3 is yes, follow through with the consequences.

5) If the answer to 3 is no, communicate with the child to ensure that
she understands so that future behavior will yield the consequences.

6) Talk with your child about why you got so angry and apologize if it
is appropriate.

7)  Plan a fun activity for you and your child.

8)  Read a book together.

9)  Snuggle up together with a bowl of popcorn and a good movie.

10)  Hire a babysitter and spend some quality time with your spouse.

11)  Get a massage.

12)  Get out those home videos and watch your child as a newborn.

Okay, so 7-12 were pretty manufactured, but they're all good ideas.  At
least I'd enjoy them.  Anyone know a good maseuse?
-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: mhn@cs.brown.edu (Marian H. Nodine)
Subject: Re: Not Limiting Sweets (was Re: Halloween Stories)
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 16:22:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.182103.1515@adobe.com> riggle@adobe.com (Kathleen Riggle) writes:
>So, (here's my question!) are you somewhat discriminating about sweets
>or if they want them right before dinner, is that fine too?

We don't really keep that many sweets around the house, but sometimes
we have cookies.  We do not let our kids have dookies too close to a meal,
so we are not in the eat-what-you-want camp.  But I do have a cute story.
We have been trying to teach Anna politeness, and to specify what she
wants (these days we get one or the other, but we're working on it).
Anyway, we know she can do the whole thing because one day just before
dinner I got Anna, with a charming smile, asking "Please may I have a
cookie?".  I guess she decided she wasn't going to get it any other
way, so decided to try charm.

Reminds me of a quote from one of Bujold's books -- something like,
"I'm so glad he decided to perfect charm instead of whining."

-- Misty

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: cobarruvias@asd2.jsc.nasa.gov
Subject: Don't SPANK....Instead do this.....
Organization: NASA/JSC
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 22:27:20 GMT

Well we've heard alot of folks say that spanking is not necessary. I am one of
them. Just as an example, I offer below a situation that spanking could have
been used, and then I've presented an alternative. This is based upon an actual
experience when Taylor was about 1.5 years old. She is now 2.5. Feel free to
add your own experiences. 


My experience:
We were having a bar-b-que outside. Taylor was playing in the back. The pit,
one of those with 3 legs, was not protected by a small fence or similiar
inclosure. It is at just about the right height for her to put her hands up and
touch the hottest surface. Anyway, after it was flaming away, she walked into
that general area. This is where a quick spank would have kept her away, I
think.

Instead, after realizing that it should be in an inclosed area, or well guarded
(my fault), I picked her up in a very rushed manner, telling her it was HOT! So
immediately she understands that something is definitely wrong. She understands
hot and understood it a bit better when it was HOT! Anyway I got here a bit
closer so she could see the fire and continued the HOT HOT. Then I put her down
after her curiosity subsided. I then got one of those things you put in door
ways to block the door and surrounded the pit. Spanking would have been easier,
but it didn't solve the problem that I created in the first place. 


*****************************************************************
John R. Cobarruvias, Texas A&M Class of '78, 
NASA Johnson Space Center Houston Tx.
(713)483-9357

"And to think..................I hesitated" (Hellraiser II)
*****************************************************************

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: elise@ticipa.pac.sc.ti.com (Elise Wade)
Subject: Re: Halloween Stories
Organization: Texas Instruments
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:21:29 GMT

Sabrina was just exceptionally cute at Halloween too.  She wanted
to go as Mini Mouse (hey I should have avoided the Disney store
the whole month of October!)  She looked adorable.  But I had a
great deal of difficulty convincing her the mouse ears were 
cute (I guess she thought they looked stupid)  Then she refused
a tail -- "I don't want to *be* a mouse, I just want the bow,
make up and dress!".  I did finally convince her the black tights
and turtle neck under the dress looked great.  Then she got to thinking
-- "Why is it black, Mom, that doesn't match?"  So I told her that
was her mouse fur. I thought she'd ditch the black tights & turtle 
neck with the tail, but Sabrina said, "Oh, I gues I *have* to have
fur to be a mouse!"  Sigh -- somedays I have trouble keep up
with her logic.
Elise.
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: elhowell@elhowell.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ellen Howell)
Subject: Re: How long until no longer sick in daycare ?
Reply-To: elhowell@elhowell.b17a.ingr.com (Ellen Howell)
Organization: "Intergraph Corp, Huntsville AL"
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:32:12 GMT


 Heather A Rothwell (tedybear@ravel.udel.edu) wrote:
> : I work in a daycare center.  Since I started work at the end of August
> : there has not been one week that I have not been ill, strep throat,
> : broncitus times 2, a flu here, a bug there (here a bug...there a
> : flu...everywhere a bug/flu).  No this is not "Old Macdonald's farm"  it is
> : a daycare that has a policy of allowing any child, regardless of illness
> : to be in the school.  Yellow gunked noses, wipe them... Child sick in
> : stomach, put him on a mat to sleep.  We do not send any child home unless
> : they need to go to the hospital first.  The one exception to this is pink
> : eye, but even children with that are allowed into the center if they have
> : medicine (who cares that they have only been taking it 5 min.).  
   ... (more deleted)

Here in (good-old-progressive) Alabama, ALL of the above would be in
violation of state licensing standards (including a worker going to
work with children with an infectious disease).  Surely your state
has similar standards.  If the director of the center is allowing this,
she/he could be in big trouble if the Dept. of Human Resources found
out. If I had a child there, I would certainly report such obvious
health-threatening conditions.  I realize (believe me, I *do*), how
difficult it is when your child is ill and you can't miss so much
work, BUT there are good reasons for a 24-hr wait to return a sick
child. It really is better in the long run.  

In Ala., all childcare workers in a licensed daycare must read and
understand the regulations before they can work.  You cannot claim
ignorance. 

It is not fair to the workers or the children to have these conditions.
Speak UP to your director, or anonymously to the DHR!  When adults
remain silent about poor childcare conditions, the children suffer!
They cannot speak up for themselves.
-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ellen Howell                    *  "Ow: The first word spoken by children
elhowell@elhowell.b17a.ingr.com *   with older siblings."
(205)730-6873                   *                       -- Joyce Armorz
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: biddleco@mizar.usc.edu (Susan Biddlecomb)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Cute things they do [14mo]
Date: 13 Nov 92 01:53:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: mizar.1e0q3fINNch3
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <LOWRY.92Nov11102940@rotor.watson.ibm.com> lowry@watson.ibm.com (Andy Lowry) writes:
>Lindsay has recently learned to shake her head when she doesn't want
>something, typically when she's in her high chair and doesn't want to
>accept whatever spoonful we're presenting to her.  But her "defiance"
>reached a new height yesterday.
>
>She was standing in front of our coffee table with the television's
>remote control.  My wife wanted the remote, and said "Lindsay, give it
>to Mommy," a phrase she seems to understand.  Lindsay walked around
>the coffee table, raised the remote control toward my wife, said
>"No!," and walked back around the coffee table with the remote
>control.  We were hysterical.

TV remotes are great for kids. When Angelica was about that age, we had her 
convinced (for a few months) that we could "turn off" her tantrums with the
TV remote. We'd point it and click it and she'd stop! But then she figured
out it didn't work that way and got even with us ...

Susan
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: elhowell@elhowell.b17a.ingr.com (Ellen Howell)
Subject: Advice Sought: Daycare->Nanny Transition
Reply-To: elhowell@elhowell.b17a.ingr.com (Ellen Howell)
Organization: "Intergraph Corp, Huntsville AL"
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 14:40:58 GMT

Hey Folks, I need some advice.  Here's the situation:

Next week (Monday, Nov. 16), my two children (boys ages 4
and 14 months) will start staying home with a nanny instead
of going to the daycare center.  This will be a new experience
for all of us, as the 4yo has been in this daycare since
he was 8 months old.  The nanny is a former preschool teacher
who will be continuing his preschool lessons at home.

Questions:

MENU:  Since they will be eating all meals and snacks at home
       now, any good, easy-to-prepare, nutrious lunch ideas
       that a 4yo (who is used to hi-fat daycare food) will eat?

       The Nanny is a vegetarian who doesn't have much experience
       preparing meat (although she said she dosen't mind trying).
       I don't mind the kids on a vegetarian diet, but wonder
       What on earth do you fix them???

SOCIAL: The 4yo has developed literally life-long friends at the
       current daycare.  We plan to invite them over from time-to-
       time, but I am worried this will be a negative move
       for him in this respect.  He is shy and has a little
       trouble making new friends, especially if there is 
       a group of them.  Any hints here?

You may want to know my reasons for going from daycare to in-home
care.  The daycare center they are in now is good.  It is on-site
at my former job (NASA) and where my husband still works.  While
I was working there and had them there, it was great.  Now I am
away from there, it is very difficult and stressful during the 
week to get them up, dressed, fed and out before 7am and I 
don't see them again until after 5pm (it's dark now at 5).  I
have laundry, cleaning, dinner, baths, and by that time, the
14 mo is ready for bed.  I don't get any quality time with them
during the week.  

By paying a little more (about $40 more) per week, we could get 
(and have gotten) someone to come in, take care of the children
(well or sick), keep the house clean, take them places, etc.
It is also easy for me to go home during lunch.

So, anyone who has had a similar experience and/or would like to
offer any advice, support, etc., please do so!

Thanks!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ellen Howell                    *  "Ow: The first word spoken by children
elhowell@elhowell.b17a.ingr.com *   with older siblings."
(205)730-6873                   *                       -- Joyce Armorz
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: Tamara Shaffer <SASTLS@mvs.sas.com>
Subject: Re: "New Mothers Room" in the workplace
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:56:00 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.

>From: sbaum@margala.FtCollins.NCR.com (Susan Baum)
>Message-ID: <3167@ncr-mpd.FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM>
>
>I am in the process of proposing to our company's personnel director
>and plant manager that we create a "New Mothers" room to provide breast
>feeding mothers with a decent place to express and then store their
>milk.  Our corporate sales office already has such a room, complete
>with electric breast pump and mini refrigerator, table and chair, so at
>least the precedent has been set.
>
>Does anyone know of any other companies which provided such a place
>(besides a stall in the ladies room!), and if so, what was provided in
>the room (refrigerator, pump, etc...) and suggestions on justifications
>for why this can be beneficial to the employer (i.e., encourage more
>women to return to work).
>
>
>Susan Baum
>sbaum@ftcollinsCO.ncr.com
>
 
Hello Susan.
 
I think you have a terrific idea.  Here at SAS (Austin office) we
have a "Lounge" which is available for nursing mothers, or anyone
not feeling well and needing a place to rest.  The door has a "do
not disturb" sign.  There is a couch and a couple comfortable
chairs, a pillow and blanket, a table, and an alarm clock (which
is really useful for those of us who are finding ourselves soooooo
tired lately!! -- power naps at lunch are a lifesaver!).  The room
is not exclusively for nursing mothers, but it is usually available.
We have full size refrigerators in the break rooms and 2 small ones
in the cafe.  I feel that our site has provided us with adequate
accomodations.  (There are approx. 98 people in our office.)
 
TAMARA
mommy to Melissa (5/1/91) and ? (due 5/8/93)
From: kvick@ccscola.Columbia (Kim S.)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Pergonal Therapy
Date: 5 Nov 92 20:43:50 GMT
Reply-To: kvick@ccscola.Columbia ()
Distribution: na
Organization: NCR CCSD Columbia

Ann and Leslie - I received your mail, but for some reason I can't reply.  Ann
- Thanks for sharing your experiences with me, and congratulations!  Leslie -
Best of luck to you.  I'll try again later to send you both e-mail.

- Kim
-- 
*****************************************************************************
Kim S. Vick                             "Please, Lord, let me prove to you
kim.vick@ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM              that winning the lottery won't spoil
I want my zip code to be 90210.          me!"
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: riggle@adobe.com (Kathleen Riggle)
Subject: Re: 20/20 and Spanking 
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:45:11 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.190257.24376@bcrka451.bnr.ca> seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna Watson) writes:
>In article <1992Nov10.014409.2553@trentu.ca> xtkmg@trentu.ca (Kate Gregory) writes:
>>
>>Yes, this makes you say strange things like "no you can't help
>>clean up that mess." But then I say stuff like "settle down
>>or you won't be sleeping on the floor tonight" or "don't worry
>>I promise we won't do the dishes while you're sleeping" so often
>>I only rarely notice how weird they sound.
>>
>>Parenthood...
>>
>Gee, I thought I was the only one who said those things :) :).

Yep.  Add "No, I won't do the laundry until after you get up from your
nap" to the list.

Kathie
-- 
riggle@adobe.com
From: clg@cray.com (Coni Gehler)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Washing stuffed animals
Date: 9 Nov 92 14:31:20 GMT
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.

stanzi@media.mit.edu (Constance "Stanzi" Royden) writes:
>
>> My daughter has a beloved stuffed animal ("Doggie") that she sleeps
>> with and often takes to daycare and other places.  Consequently, he
>> gets dirty.  The label on this dog says "Surface wash" and "Air dry".
>> Having just completed a round of this this last weekend, and having
>> Caitie be without Doggie for a day while he hung up to dry, I am
>> tempted to throw him in the washing machine and dryer next time to
>> save time and energy.  However, I worry that this might ruin him.
>>
>> Does anyone have any experience with washing a "Surface washable"
>> stuffed animal in the washing machine?  Did it come out OK?
>>
>> --Stanzi Royden
>>

Okay, a couple of potentially-stupid-sounding questions on this topic:

1.  What if the surface washable stuffed animal has a music box inside?  (You
    know, one of those wind-it-up-it-plays-nice-soft-music sort of things.)
    Should I not even consider washing something like this in the machine?
    (My son received a nice white bunny that plays "Here Comes Peter Cottontail"
    in wonderfully soft tones.  But it's WHITE.  And he LOVES IT.  On the
    CHANGING TABLE.)

2.  If I'm doomed to surface cleaning this thing, how does one surface clean?
    Like, with just water?  (Okay, so I know this shows how ignorant I truly
    am, but I guess I need to know.)


And, seeing how ignorant I am about cleaning stuffed animals, you can imagine
how bad I am at coming up with logical consequences in the spanking/anti-spanking
discussing!  (In my defense, however, my son is only 7 months old and so I have
some time to learn about that.  The time I have to learn about cleaning Bunny,
however, is fast dwindling away....)

Coni
clg@cray.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: guthrie@maravich.nb.rockwell.com (Karen Guthrie)
Subject: Re: Please Don't Spank!
Reply-To: guthrie@maravich.nb.rockwell.com (Karen Guthrie)
Organization: Rockwell International
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:51:39 GMT

OK you show me an adult that is obedient to no one and I will show you a prison inmate!
Everywhere in the world to fit into society you must learn to curtail your desires to
fit in.  Whether you spank or not if you are not setting limits on your kids so that
they show respect others you are not doing your job.  If your kid grows up and holds
up a mini mart they won't just take him by the hand and lead him away.  They have to 
understand that inappropriate behavior has consequences.  As a parent I also have 
rights.  It may be their right to run and play but it is my right to have a few nerves
left at the end of the day.  If my husband started screaming in the house I would be
angry with him too.  And if he hit me I would leave him.  Well you can't leave the
kids but my daughter knows that she is in big trouble when she stops showing me respect.
Please, we don't need any more selfish self indulgent ME ME ME self important adults on
this planet.  Not thinking of others is just plain selfishness and so is not having the
guts to be unpopular with your offspring for a few minutes.  Who do you think you are
serving then.

Flames to /dev/null

Karen
From: shack@cs.arizona.edu (David Shackelford)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: 20/20 SPANKING COMPLAINT
Date: 8 Nov 92 06:34:58 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1764@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> pleeper@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Paulette Leeper) writes:
><25598@optima.cs.arizona.edu> <1992Nov3.145234.10224@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>
><25765@optima.cs.arizona.edu>
>Sender: 
>Reply-To: pleeper@wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Paulette Leeper)
>Followup-To: 
>Distribution: usa
>Organization: NCR Corporate Data Planning - Dayton, OH
>
>In article <25765@optima.cs.arizona.edu> shack@cs.arizona.edu (David
>Shackelford) writes:
 >>
 >>SOME kids don't respond to anything else but a spanking.  It is imperative
 >>that kids obey.  Therefore if spanking is the only thing that works for
 >>that child, then it is imperative that you spank.
 >>
 >
 >SOME parents can't think up anything else but a spanking.  It is 
 >imperative that kids are raised in a non-violent way.  Therefore,
 >if parents haven't found a non-violent means that works, they
 >must think harder.

You don't get the point.  Some parents have thought long and hard
(how does ~15 years grab you) and still regrettably the child
doesn't respond to new and wonderful ways of keeping her from
burning down the house.  Alas, we either need to install a
sprinkler system or get her to understand DON'T PLAY WITH MATCHES!!
If this comes up, I can assure you I'll go ahead and try what
worked with me rather than think some more.  If a spanking works
where other methods have already failed, I prefer to incur the
miniscule risk of minor emotional damage to the much larger risk.

I'm an organized person -- starting to write down possible situations
and the things to try in priority order.  Spanking is rarely near the
beginning of my priorities, but it is always there somewhere.  The
bottom line ;-) is you have to do whatever it takes.