HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Alien^3? (long)
Date: 21 Aug 92 03:06:11 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1992Aug21.015055.22999@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bz978@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Charles E Gibbs) writes:
[snip]
>Well, it was somewhat more gorier than the first two.  However, overall
>I think FLincher did the best job possible with the script available.  If
>anyone needs to be stoned for this movie, it's the writers.
[snip]
>Again this comes down to the script.  The writers couldn't have watched ALIEN 
>and ALIENS that carefully.  If so, they should have realized that the violence
>in these two movies was more controlled; suspense and the sense of a growing 
>threat is what distinguished these movies.  Many of these violent scences
>that you talk about could have been rewritten to fit that mood better.

I haven't seen Alien^3 yet (so why am I arguing?...), but the
movie was well into filming long before the script was finished.
I can send you the breakdown I lifted from a British 'Aliens'
fanzine. The final plot as you see it is IMHO (I've read the
book/comic) a wonderful piece of editing considering it had gone
through 3 directors, 7 writers, 5 (or so) producers, and Fox
pulled the plug on funding before the filming was complete.

Hill and Giler (writer/producers) managed to pull it together,
even after Fox canned their list of reshoots. They took a
partly-filmed movie, with very limited effects, and managed to
edit it into a semi-reasonable (IMHO) story line.

>By the way, who said that ALIEN^3 was an art film?

Methinks that hiring Fincher, a commercial and rock video
director, kinda says that of itself. IMHO of course.

>Again, the bottom line is
>that the script needed two or three more drafts.

NO argument there. If they'd taken Hill and Giler's final
concept, a result of compromise after compromise, and filmed that
from scratch, I think the movie's responses would be a lot better.

>Well, I think they had a workable premise.  If MIchael Biehn had signed
>on, it might have been a different story.  However, if there is another
>movie, there still might be salvation for this one.

Agreed.

Joshua
   _  _      "Thats a good idea!"  "I have those every once in a while."
 -(_)(_)-      "Why do you listen to me when I'm wrong?!?"
 \      /          - Dr. Goldfoot and the Bikini Machine
  |  . |      
  -____-      jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca 
 /  \/  \     Academic Computing Services, University of Calgary 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca (Tom Hamill)
Subject: Psycho (was Re: Directors cuts in general)
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.movies
Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:41:37 GMT

In article boyajian@ruby.enet.dec.com (The Man from Another Place) writes:
>In article ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) writes...
>}In article boyajian@ruby.enet.dec.com (The Man from Another Place) writes:
>
>}} [...] for example, the shower scene in PSYCHO, with a lot of quick cuts
>}} from Vera Miles screaming and thrashing around to the knife plunging
>}} down and back again is an example of an editor doing a great job [...]
>
>} Dear Mr. Man from Another Place:
>}	In our place it was Janet Leigh, not Vera Miles.
>
>Or...mea culpa. I kept thinking the name Vera Miles, because she was Hitch's
>"favorite" actress.
>
Or, perhaps, because in 'Psycho 2', Vera Miles portrayed the sister of the
Janet Leigh character who was murdered in the original movie.  Was Martin
Balsam the police detective in the original?

---tom

l~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~l
l      CRUSH---CompassionRespectUnderstandingSelfHonesty---CRUSH      l
l         How could you have ever lived your life without it?         l
l               Join Now, Apply Within.  Spread the word.             l
l____________________________      ---me, trying to save the world,   l
l wcstom@alfred.carleton.ca l                      from itself.       l
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies,rec.arts.sf.tv
Subject: Re: Highlander - the TV series
From: rothe@teksun1.mdcbbs.com (Bill Rothe - Tekware sys mgr)
Date: 13 Aug 92 08:22:04 PDT
Distribution: world
Organization: M&E (Division of EDS), Cypress CA

In article <hfaester.713599415@Physik.TU-Muenchen.DE>, hfaester@Physik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Hannes Faestermann) writes:
|> cwelsh@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Craig Welsh  8823239) writes:
|> 
|> I don't know about other countries but in Germany there used to be a
|> subtitle to 'Highlander' (I) which translates to:
|> 	'There can only be one'
|> They should follow that...
|> 

	Unfortunately, in Hollywood, there's a saying that supercedes all
	others.....

		"If it doesn't make money, there will be only one.
		 But it it makes money, There can never be enough!"

-- 
*******************************************************************************
*        "Questions are a burden to others."                                  *
*	 "Answers are a prison unto themselves."                              *
*					- Number 2                            *
*									      *
*  rothe@mdcbbs.com       ** Opinions stated here are not those of EDS **     *
*******************************************************************************
From: mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Natives Down the River (was re: ALIEN^3 Eggs on Sulaco)
Date: 19 Aug 92 08:57:51 GMT
Organization: DB and ES Subdivision, TU Vienna

From article <9223202.581@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>, by jamesbs@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (JJ Glamma):
> Ash being a better character than Burke, though? What was his motivation... He
> was programmed to do it. Yeah, real depth there.

Yes, that makes it especially glaring.  (Anyway, here's that p-word
again.  He was not "programmed" to do it.  He was instructed to.  God,
that reminds me of 2010.)

> Caricature? That's a bit harsh, isn't it? I'd say sterotypes.
> (Except, IMHO, for Ripley, Hicks, and Burke... OK, Burke is revealed to be a
> stereotype, but I think Cameron succeeds in keeping that from us. You don't.)

I would say most of the Marines are caricatures.  I would agree with
you on Ripley and Hicks, and Bishop (Note: I really like the way they
presented the androids in Alien and Aliens.  If you want to see a
painfully stereotypical android, look at Data in ST:TNG).

-- 
Markus Stumptner                                mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at
University of Technology Vienna                 vexpert!mst@relay.eu.net
Paniglg. 16, A-1040 Vienna, Austria             ...mcsun!vexpert!mst
From: auerbach@doc.bmd.trw.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: To all Dune Fans, a question
Date: 20 Aug 92 07:34:57 MST

In article <1992Aug19.144857.4773@dgbt.doc.ca>, serge@dgbt.doc.ca (Serge Ah Hee) writes:
> The other night , I saw a part of the movie Dune on our local TV channel, and decided 
> to read the book. Before leaving for Dune, Paul makes a reference to his sister
> who died at the hands of the Harkonnens (sp?). Does anybody have more details 
> about it?.     

Paul?  The book mentions that the sister of Gurney Halleck was killed by the
Harkonnens, but not a sister of Paul.  Halleck also received the scar on his
jaw from the Harkonnens.  It was interesting that the movie went to the effort
to replicate the scar, but doesn't explain its source.

K
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: Thomas Gramstad <thomas@smaug.uio.no>
Subject: Re: Vasquez in Terminator2
        21:53:25 GMT
Reply-To: thomas@smaug.uio.no
Organization: University of Oslo
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:43:16 GMT

> It's not too good for the movie career, either.  Unless she always
> wants to play muscular women.                    

Sounds like a good movie career to me....

      ------------------------------------------------------
      Thomas Gramstad                    thomas@smaug.uio.no
      ------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: u906789@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Mark Julian Turner)
Subject: Re: Natives Down the River (was re: ALIEN^3 Eggs on Sulaco)
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 06:04:39 GMT

jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell) writes:

>In article <1992Aug18.204559.14931@u.washington.edu> daynem@byron.u.washington.edu (Dayne Miller) writes:

>1) Bishop wasn't a liar. He would not allow the humans to come to
>harm.

He only *says* he won't harm or allow people to be harmed. Although he does     
nothing (obvious) to suggest he's like Ash, he could be. But when Bishop 2      appeared at the end of Alien 3 it seems like Bishop can be the only explaination
as to the eggs on the Sulaco.

>2) The eggs weren't aboard the ship when Ripley, Newt and co.
>went to sleep. Ripley is paranoid, not stupid.

>3) Weyland-Yutani is willing to do anything for a buck, and
>doesn't trust the Colonial Marine Corps anyway.

>After Ripley & co were in Hypersleep, the Sulaco sent the
>dropship back down to the site of the Derilect from Alien. This
>was logged in the flight recorder Bishop and Ripley analyze in
>Alien^3. Bishop was unaware of this program until he analyzed the
>flight recorder.

The dropship needs a pilot (or remote pilot).
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Naming Alien 4
Date: 17 Aug 92 13:59:05 GMT
Reply-To: smith@ctron.com
Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Aug13.150937.12740@syma.sussex.ac.uk>, michaell@cogs.susx.ac.uk (Michael Lazarou) writes:
>: III - Three Aliens and a Little Lady, The Three Aliens,
>: Alienses... :)

>How about "For a few Aliens more", "An Alien too far", "Son of Alien",
>"Dances with Aliens", "RoboAlien", ......

Let's face it, folks.  The time has come to end this
series, and the last movie in any series is always:

Abbott and Costello Meet the Alien.

Since they are dead, it may be tough to cast this one.  If it Buddy Hackett
and Harvey Korman are unavailable, I suspect:

Wayne and Garth Meet the Alien

will do the job.  Of course, to really give it the quietus, we could go
for the really big guns:

Pee Wee Herman Meets the Alien.

But I hardly think that will be necessary.  Too cruel.  For the Alien.

Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com) No, I don't speak for Cabletron.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Daily I'd go over to Congress - that grand old benevolent national asylum - and
report on the inmates there.  Never seen a body of men with tongues more handy,
or information more uncertain.  If one of those men had been present when the
Deity was on the point of saying "Let there be light" we never would've had it.
From: shick@europa.asd.contel.com (steve hick)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Princess of Mars Movie
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:32:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: europa.1992Aug19.153210.24014
Reply-To: shick@europa.asd.contel.com (steve hick)
Organization: GTE Contel Federal Systems

Does anyone have any new information on this?  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: boyajian@ruby.enet.dec.com (The Man from Another Place)
Subject: Re: 2001, 2010 and David Bowman
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 11:11:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug10.171910.3773@tolten.puc.cl>, flalbert@lascar.puc.cl (L.Alberti IIC.FUN) writes...

} As you know, 2001 movie was made in 1968 (more or less) and there is
} one character called "David Bowman". In 1986 was made 2010; in this
} movie appears again David Bowman ... and he looks identical to 2001's
} Bowman: not just look-alike, but IDENTICAL.

There's a good reason for that... :-)

} In 2010 credits, Bowman is performed by Keir Bullea.

Dullea, actually.

} In 2001 credits, there is no reference to anyone (just a "A Stanley
} Kubrick Release" message).

Try watching the closing credits all the way through. The entire cast
*is* listed.

} Well... here is my question: does anyone know who performed Bowman
} in 2001????

Keir Dullea played Bowman in both films. The mind-boggling thing is that
he *does* look exactly like he did before even after 16 years had passed.
Dullea must come from the same non-aging genetic stock that David
McCallum comes from.

-- 

	"She's my radiation baby.
	 She's my teenage fallout girl."

--- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA)

    boyajian@ruby.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: jamesbs@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (JJ Glamma)
Subject: Re: Natives Down the River (was re: ALIEN^3 Eggs on Sulaco)
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:27:30 GMT

gre253@mis.csiro.au (Steven Green) writes:

>>Ash says that the FACEHUGGER is growing a protective SILICON-BASED COVERING.
>>Far from conclusive evidence that the adult alien has a biochemistry which is
>>entirely silicon-based.

>Isn't it unlikely that the adult aliens have a different biochemistry to
>the hacehuggers. I'm no biochemist - this is just my opinion.

The way I understood this scene was that the facehugger was laying down a
silicon-based covering OVER its existing skin. I'll watch it again and see.

Now, if that's true, then the silicon-based coating is strictly a protective
device for the alien at the most vulnerable stage of its development.


-- 
-----------------------------------+-------------------------------------------
JJ Glamma                          | "Doctor, I can have an airstrike here in 
aka James William Patrick Bennetts |  minutes."
jamesbs@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU         | "That won't do any good, Brigadier!"
-----------------------------------+ "No, I didn't think so."
A bird in the hand is messy.	   | 	-- Doctor Who:Battlefield
-----------------------------------+-------------------------------------------
From: v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Natives Down the River
Date: 15 Aug 92 22:08:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug15.105249.12711@phillip.edu.au>, t9014201@phillip.edu.au writes...
>OK, my turn...
> 
>Why Alien 3 didnt work....
> 
>Technology.
>The first 2 movies made a good contrast between humans surrounded by their high 
>tech gadjets and the simple animal aliens.
>I can see that the writer of A3 deliberately cut out those tech elements and it
>probably seemed like a good idea at the time, but I went into the movie hoping
>for Smart-guns, Spaceships, "Mother", Power-loaders, Movement trackers and so
>forth, and all I got was a Lead Refinery.

     Well, if you paid 7 bucks for guns and gadgets, and instead got
     passion, intensity, defiance in the face of death -- Well, I'd
     say you got your money's worth, even if you don't realize it.

>The money heads in Hollywood must have seen that the crowds LOVED Aliens
>and surely they understood WHY.  So why did they produce a film that offered
>none of the thrills of the earlier films?

     Five words: Because it's been done before!  If all you want is a
     carbon copy, go to Kinkos and let the rest of us enjoy originality.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: boyajian@ruby.enet.dec.com (The Man from Another Place)
Subject: Re: Rutger Hauer in Star Wars?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 11:04:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.013840.11579@hubcap.clemson.edu>, stehman@hubcap.clemson.edu (Jeff Stehman) writes...

} Was Rutger Hauer in Star Wars?

No.

} In the scene in the detention block aboard the death star, the officer
} in charge looks and sounds like Hauer.

It's not him.

(While I agree that there's *some* resemblence, I wouldn't say it was
*that* strong a one, and I certainly don't agree that he sounds like
Hauer.)

-- 

	"She's my radiation baby.
	 She's my teenage fallout girl."

--- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA)

    boyajian@ruby.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: moscatel@granite.ma30.bull.com (Joseph Moscatelli)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: 2001, 2010 and David Bowman
Date: 14 Aug 92 12:28:47 GMT
Organization: Bull HN Information Systems Inc.

In article <1992Aug14.111552.570@engage.pko.dec.com> boyajian@ruby.enet.dec.com (The Man from Another Place) writes:
>In article <1992Aug10.171910.3773@tolten.puc.cl>, flalbert@lascar.puc.cl (L.Alberti IIC.FUN) writes...
>
>} As you know, 2001 movie was made in 1968 (more or less) and there is
>} one character called "David Bowman". In 1986 was made 2010; in this
>
>
>Keir Dullea played Bowman in both films. The mind-boggling thing is that
>he *does* look exactly like he did before even after 16 years had passed.
>Dullea must come from the same non-aging genetic stock that David
>McCallum comes from.
>

I remember a magazine article , People I think, around the time that 2010
was released , on Dullea and his particular lifestyle, yoga, nutrition, etc.
that explained the fact that he had not changed much in appearance between
the two movies.

-- 
 == Joseph A. Moscatelli                ==
 == Bull HN Information Systems         ==
 == j.moscatelli@granite.ma30.bull.com  == 
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: caruso@socrates.umd.edu (John Caruso)
Subject: Re: What's wrong with Alien^3?
Organization: University of Maryland University College
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 06:39:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.143746.9196@fwi.uva.nl> welter@fwi.uva.nl (Richard Welter) writes:
>caruso@socrates.umd.edu (John Caruso) writes:
>>
>>There wasn't a single event in the
>>film that was surprising or suspenseful; in many cases, potential suspense
>>was destroyed because we were shown the danger immediately, and it became
>>just a matter of waiting for the hammer to drop.
>
>Yeah, like you didn't know in advance what was going to happen in aliens!
>Aliens was just as predictable.

My point here was that Alien^3 lacked -suspense-; I'd actually call it the
more unpredictable of the two, since the conclusion of Aliens was never in
doubt.  But Aliens had plenty of suspense.  Consider the scenes where the
marines were going into the tunnels but hadn't found the aliens yet.  The
tension in the theater during scenes like that was so high you could almost
feel it (I'll never forget going to see Aliens a second time and watching
the audience during the scene where the facehugger jumps against the glass
tube...-everyone- in the theater leaped backward in their seats).  This
applies even more to Alien (those first search scenes, or the "where is
the facehugger?" scene are great examples).  But in Alien^3 we were usually
shown exactly where the alien was, and as I said, it was just a matter of
waiting for the hammer to drop.  I don't recall any scenes in the film
that achieved enough uncertainty to create real suspense.

- John
From: pvitaris@emubus ("Vitaris Paula")
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: signoff sf-loverssignoff sf-lovers
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:20:00 GMT

Signoff sf-lovers
From: v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Natives Down the River (was re: ALIEN^3 Eggs on Sulaco)
Date: 20 Aug 92 23:04:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

>1) The Sulaco was a military transport. I can (just) by Weyland-Yutani tapping
>into its telemetry in the third film, but I certainly don't buy them being
>able to issue orders to the military hardware.

     Can I say something?
     Who ever said that The Colonial Marines wasn't a DIVISION of The Company?
     Not a separate entity, but a connected arm.  Not a national, but a 
     corporate, defense mechanism.  

     -Scott Gorcey
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: boyajian@ruby.enet.dec.com (The Man from Another Place)
Subject: DANCES WITH WOLVES (Re: Laser and tape questions)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 06:39:49 GMT

In article <16ar5jINN8va@ensta.ensta.fr>, corwin@ensta.ensta.fr (Gilles Gravier) writes...

} - What I have found out is that there are much more films in NTSC than in
} PAL... But, in PAL, they are usually European versions... Which means that
} sometimes we are not so blocked by US production. Let me explain: When
} Kevin Costner gave his OK for the release of Dances With Wolfes on
} Laserdisk, he sai that it should ONLY be in PAN/SCAN format. No
} letterboxing, to fit, said he, the US market of TVs... Well, the only
} edition you will find in the world is PAN/SCAN, except for France, [...]

Sorry, Gilles, but this is wrong.

DANCES WITH WOLVES is available in *both* pan-&-scan *and* letterbox format
on laserdisc here in the US. I myself have a letterboxed copy. Originally,
they were going to release the original 3-hour version only in pan-&-scan
and the 4-hour director's cut in letterbox, but when the video release of
the director's cut was put on hold, they offered the original version in
both formats.

-- 

	"She's my radiation baby.
	 She's my teenage fallout girl."

--- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC, "The Mill", Maynard, MA)

    boyajian@ruby.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: hafner@ifi.unizh.ch (Michel Hafner)
Subject: Re: Directors cuts in general
Organization: University of Zurich, Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 10:24:38 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.151206.3066@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) writes:
>In article <1992Aug11.151017.4120@engage.pko.dec.com> boyajian@ruby.enet.dec.com (The Man from Another Place) writes:
>> I meant cuts as in cutting from one scene to another, or cutting up a
>> scene to give it impact; for example, the shower scene in PSYCHO, with
>> a lot of quick cuts from Vera Miles screaming and thrashing around to
>> the knife plunging down and back again is an example of an editor doing
>> a great job -- whether to use sweeping dissolves or lap dissolves, etc.,
>> etc.
>
>Dear Mr. Man from Another Place:
>	In our place it was Janet Leigh, not Vera Miles.

Hm. I thought it was Janet plus a body double
								M.H.
From: v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: 2001, 2010 and David Bowman
Date: 15 Aug 92 22:35:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <15AUG199210375975@gergo.tamu.edu>, dave@gergo.tamu.edu (Dave Martin) writes...
>In article <1992Aug14.111552.570@engage.pko.dec.com>, boyajian@ruby.enet.dec.com (The Man from Another Place) writes...
>In article <1992Aug10.171910.3773@tolten.puc.cl>, flalbert@lascar.puc.cl (L.Alberti IIC.FUN) writes...
>} In 2010 credits, Bowman is performed by Keir Bullea.
>..
>Dullea, actually.
>..
>} Well... here is my question: does anyone know who performed Bowman
>} in 2001????
>..
>Keir Dullea played Bowman in both films. The mind-boggling thing is that
>he *does* look exactly like he did before even after 16 years had passed.
>Dullea must come from the same non-aging genetic stock that David
>McCallum comes from.
> 
>At the time of 2010's release, I read or saw something regarding the making
>of 2010. It was mentioned that, for 2001, Kubrick felt that Bowman should
>be much older than Keir was at the time, so they "aged" him in 2001. Add
>that to Keir's healthy lifestyle and a little makeup (very little) and you've
>got a David Bowman who has not aged a day in 16 years. Guess this is a case
>of lucky foresight on Kubrick's part. 

     Have you seen Kier Dullea recently?  It was A LOT of makeup - and
     a lot of very good makeup, I'd say.


                                                                     -