HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup)
Subject: Re: What is the resonable oil comsumption?
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:09:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.194333.24745@osf.org> I asked:

>I've got a turbocharged Ford 2.3L I4 that seems to use a lot of oil, I
>haven't measured it, but I'd figure about a qt. every Kmi or so. I've
>always attributed this to my habit of slowing with the transmission
>(== high rpm downshifts,  which == lotsa vacuum, which == oil sucked down
>the valve guides).

> Anyone else with this experience?

In article <1993Jan5.021818.11839@tandem.com>
norcott_bill@tandem.com (Bill Norcott) writes:

>The car (1987 Topaz with 84,000 miles) uses less than 1/2 quart between
>oil changes. We have put around 9500 miles on it in a year.  The car is just
>driven locally by my wife who does not go fast.

Yeah, but I asked if anyone had *my* experience with the engine....I'm sure
my engine would use no oil at all if my Grandmother drove it.

I don't buy the 45/65 consumption thing, either. Gearing means a lot, esp.
with a manual transmission car. There's only about 1k rpm difference in my
car between the two speeds in 5.

	-Kenny

-- 
Kenny Crudup, Contractor, OSF DCE QA
OSF, 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA 02142	+1 617 621 7306
kenny@osf.osf.org			OSF has nothing to do with this post.
	  Religion: The longest-running gag ever played on Mankind.
From: mills@athena.lkg.dec.com (George Mills)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Dealer Prep Ought to be Road Kill!
Date: 8 Jan 93 18:09:20 GMT

I see this same story so many times it makes me sick.
If you think a dealer can survive on even $400 profit per
car, your pretty thick. YOU have to pay for them to available
to you. YOU also have to pay for all the deals that fall through.
YOU have to pay insurance on the car YOU and everybody else test
drives. If YOU don't they won't be there. You are not paying just
to wash the car.

You are right, on a lot of points of how they make money.
But just make what you think is a fair offer AND WALK AWAY.
If it's reasonable they will call you, PERIOD. Don't argue over it.
Call a half dozen or so dealers and tell them to give the best price.
Let the dealers compete for best price. Tell them that joe @ so-and-so
will sell it for $200.00 less, can you do any better.

Once you find the low price, if they pull any crap on you WALK AWAY
don't argue. Move onto the next best price on the list.

In MA we have Mass buying power. Which is sort of a PRE-dickered
way of doing the above. And you trust Mass buying power that they
have done the home work. Lots less grief. Yes, you may get a better
deal elsewhere but you rarely get ripped off (which is all I care about).
The dealers they pick are based on there good pricing record not
on a single deal. I think many other states have similar programs.

I can't wait till cars are availble mail order :-).
From: bob@equinox.unr.edu (Bob Haynes)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Shelby GLHS - FOR SALE
Date: 6 Jan 93 16:18:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Nevada, Reno

1987 Shelby GLHS, #991 of 1000 produced, '87 only.  175 hp, 2460 curb weight.
Turbo, intercooled, adjustable nitr. shocks, beefed up suspension.  A/C, P/S,
low profile tires, moon roof.  64k miles.  Make offer BASED ON DELIVERY IN
RENO, NV. (you pay for delivery).

bob@equinox.unr.edu
From: hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Photo-radar....
Date: 5 Jan 93 16:57:05 GMT
Organization: Chevron

In article <1993Jan4.145326.4640@microware.com>, troyf@microware.com (Troy Frericks) writes:
|> In article <ccL0VB3w165w@willard.UUCP> ninja@willard.UUCP (Sonic Druid) writes:
|> > 
|> >  I'm looking for Information on Photo-radar, and photo-radar
|> >deflectors for license platest (myth or reality...I don't know...)
|> 
|> License plate covers that hype the ability to hide your plate from photo-radar
|> are basically a polorized (anti-glare) cover.  They will allow your plate
|> to be seen from directly infront of the car, but not be able to be read from
|> a side angle.  Since the photo-radar takes a picture at an angle, rather than
|> directly ahead, they probably work.
|> 
|> Are they legal?  Do the directions say for off-road use only (which is how many
|> get away with selling an illegal item)?

 Someplace that has photo-radar has outlawed these types of things but I 
 can't remember where - better check C&D back issues.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: johnc@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (John Cooley)
Subject: Re: Mini-van or utility vehicle...4WD vs gas mileage
Summary: Vans have a lot more space
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1993 19:49:54 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523
Followup-To: rec.autos

In article <1993Jan5.112130.29002@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> mart@csri.toronto.edu (Mart Molle) writes:
>br@cs.cmu.edu (Bill Ross) writes:

>> prange@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Henry Prange) writes:

>>> Get an Explorer.

>Let me second that opinion.  If you plan to use the vehicle for long
>trips, and want/need the extra space, don't be afraid to get the larger
>vehicle because of the cost of gas.  For example, I just drove 6000 miles
>over Christmas from Toronto to Los Angeles and return.  Total cost
>of fuel was about US$330 (4.0L Aerostar, averaging about 21 miles/USgal).
>Total cost of motels was about US$275 (2 nights westbound, 3 nights
>eastbound at about $55/night).  This is comparable to the cost of *one*
>round-trip airplane ticket [and I'm sure I used less fuel than one
>passenger's worth too], but it was enough to get my family of 5 + dog
>and a ton of gear back and forth safely and comfortably.  The same trip
>would have been more expensive (if not impossible) in a smaller, more
>fuel efficient vehicle, because none of us could have survived driving
>and/or being confined to one spot for 15 hours per day for 3 days straight.

>[Yes, I know from experience that a Sable wagon is Too Small for a family
>to survive more than 500-600 miles/day of long distance travelling, whereas
>the Aerostar allowed us to average about 1000 miles/day...]

I'm sure the Aerostar did the job nicely.  Propsective purchasers should
realize that the Aerostar has _much_ more interior volume than an Explorer.
Except for height, if the Sable wagon is too small, than so is the Explorer.

The original post mentioned a ground clearance problem with a Honda Civic.
The Aerostar offers more clearance than the Civic.  The Explorer offers
more than the Aerostar, sort of.  The Explorer keeps its gas tank, crankcase
and exhaust system farther from the ground than the Aerostar, but the rear
differential is at almost the same height.

The original post really didn't say much about the requirements that the
proposed vehicle must meet, other than gas mileage and ground clearance.  We
don't know if this person is childless, planning children, or has four
munchkins and three dogs.  We don't know if long trips are a must.  We don't
know whether he pulls a trailer, although it's unlikely he did with the
Civic.  Vehicles from Subaru wagons to all-wheel-drive vans to Suburbans all
meet the limited criteria given.  This is a rather broad range, and most of
the vehicles in it are probably utterly unsuited to the uses intended by the
original poster.

A careful analysis of needs and uses is in order.  What must the vehicle be
able to do?  What is unimportant?  Consider $20K-$30K expenditures carefully.

     John Cooley
From: lcheng@watson.ibm.com
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 14:31:31 EST
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: 4-valve heads in Corollas vs. VWs (was Re: AudiWatch Update (Tm) #8)



... <various posts re: 4-valve heads in Corollas being earlier/later
than Sciroccos deleted> ...

Come on people!  Four-valve heads were not first introduced into the
automotive world by Toyota's FX-16, nor by VW's Scirocco, nor by Lotus.
In fact they appeared much earlier ... something like in the 1920's
by Peugeot (my memory fails me on this).  Taking this argument only
in the context of 1980's cars is simply ridiculous.

- Lawrence Cheng
  lcheng@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Real Life?!?! HA!!)
Subject: Re: Anti-Lock Brakes makes stopping SAFER?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 05:26:45 GMT

tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett) writes:

>I am also not at all
>sure that the ABS would not kick in using the emergency brake 

No, ABS does not affect the handbrake.  ABS modulates line pressure in the
hydraulic service brake system, while the handbrake uses a mechanical cable
which is regulated only by the handbrake lever/parking brake pedal.  So on
an ABS-equipped car, the rear can be made to skid using the handbrake.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael T. Chaffee        | mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu  |  ______    
                                                       |  \    /   HATE
"I chased a rainbow down a one-way street.  Dead end." |   \  /  is not a
     - S. P. McCall                                    |    \/  FAMILY VALUE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mcostell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Malcolm G. Costello)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: belts wearing out
Date: 12 Jan 93 21:34:54 GMT
Reply-To: mcostell@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Malcolm G. Costello)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.autos, moody@e4.ius.cs.cmu.edu (James Moody) writes:
xSix months have passed, so it's time to replace the belts again....
x
xI have a 1988 Caravan with the V-6 engine, and the serpentine belt seems
xto begin screeching about every 6 months.  It starts out as a squeal, then
xsettles down to a chirp-chirp-chirp.  Over a period of a few weeks it just
xkeeps getting worse.  It's especially bad on days with a heavy dew.
x
xThe first few times I had the dealer replace the belts, then a few times
xwith my favorite mechanic. Finally, the last time I did the job myself,
xsaved a few bucks and got a breaker bar, to boot.
x
xIt seems to me that the belt should last a heck of a lot longer than 6
xmonths.  Both the dealer and my mechanic claim the pulleys are alligned
xproperly.  There is no tensioning adjustment to diddle with since the
xsystem employs a dynamic tensioner (spring-loaded pulley), hence the
xbreaker bar.  I cleaned the pulleys well the last time the belts were
xreplaced, but they really don't get that dirty to begin with.  It's not
xlike my engine is spewing oil through the gaskets all over everything.
x
xAt least three different brands of belts have been used, so I don't think
xxhe problem is the belt itself.
x
xBoth the dealer and my mechanic claim that serpentine belts do wear out
xfaster than other belts, but I've never noticed other cars making this
xnoise.
x
xAny comments or suggestions?
x
x--
xJames E. Moody Jr.      The Robotics Institute          (412) 268-2847
x                        Carnegie Mellon (University)          CMU-BUGS
x                        Schenley Park
xmoody@cs.cmu.edu        Pittsburgh, PA 15213
x

Just a comment. I also have a 1988 Dodge Caravan with the 3.0 V6.
I bought it new. It currently has 50K miles. The serpentine belt has
been replaced *once* at about 45K miles. It *never* squealed or
chirped. It was replaced due to signs of normal wear. Based on my
experience, I would say *you* have an atypical situation. Could there
be something wrong with the spring tensioner i.e. weak spring that
caused the belt to slip slightly, eventually glaze, and then start
making noises? What did the old belts look like when you replaced
them?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mack Costello <mcostell@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Code 65.1 (formerly 1720.1)
David Taylor Model Basin, Carderock Division Hq. NSWC    ___/-\____
Bethesda, MD 20084-5000   Phone (301) 227-2431          (__________>|

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Organization: Junior, Architecture, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:13:04 -0500 
From: "Jason M. Roth" <jr4q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Anti-Lock Brakes makes stopping SAFER?
	<1ia8pdINNscn@armory.centerline.com>

I never gave too much thought to ABS until I totalled my car a few weeks
ago. Yes, it was my fault (I won't go into it -- too embarrassing), but
it wouldn't have happened w/ ABS -- pure and simple. And, obviously, I
wasn't driving more dangerously 'cos my ABS made me overconfident. That
argument is like being anti-front wheel drive 'cos then people will
assume that one can drive safely in the snow. Anyone who's reckless due
to ABS (or any other "safety" feature) is liable to get in an accident
anyway; the ABS may just save him in spite of himself.

JMR
HSK

'93 SL2, blue-green
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: karen@synopsys.com (Karen Vahtra)
Subject: Re: BMW318i vs. Accord EX vs. Infiniti G20
Keywords: n
Organization: Synopsys, Inc.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 23:48:35 GMT

I sure enjoy driving my beamer over a Honda Accord!  I've had a BMW318i
for 7 years (older model) for 125,000 happy miles.  I've had very little
mechanical problems although the maintainence is a bit pricy.

Karen
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Saturn Do It Yourself Mtce.
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:09:40 GMT

In article <184850@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
>In article <1ihc7rINNim1@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ah190@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stuart Pearl) writes:
>>
>>
>>Also, I understand the car has "lifetime" lube fittings.  How
>>does Saturn define lifetime.  I take it that "permanent" fittings
>>mean no Zerks or lubrication nipples for the old grease gun.  That 
>>whole concept bothers me a little, because even grease gets dirty/gritty/
>>abrasive and evaporates a bit over time.  Any comments?
>>
>   Most cars for the past several years have "lifetime" chassis
>   lubrication.  It really means there are no fittings.  I haven't
>   had any problems with any lifetime lubed cars (german, japan, swedish
>   and us models) with well over 100K miles on any one of them, but
>   your point is worth consideration.  

i know multiple FORD owners whose 'lubed-for-life' parts died between 30-50k.
tie-rod ends seem to be most anxious to destroy themselves.

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: kss8l@roxanne.bme.Virginia.EDU.noname (Kevin S. Spetz)
Subject: Re: Dealer Prep Ought to be Road Kill!
Reply-To: kss8l@roxanne.bme.Virginia.EDU.noname
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 21:07:47 GMT

In article 1ike41INNf4r@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu, ah190@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stuart Pearl) writes:
>
>Just what is "dealer prep" anyway?
>
>I just got back from negotiating on a Sable and can't remember the
>last time I was this aggravated.  Classic situation of the sales rep
>not being able to deal with me, so the "closer" was brought in to mop
>up the opposition (me).
>...

You should do exactly what you did (although most people don't).
Figure out exactly what they paid for the car and negotiate from
there.  If they won't take your offer then find someone who will.  If
nobody will take your offer maybe your shooting too low.  Considering
their kickback, it sounds like your in the ballpark though, at least by
my standards.  As I see it, dealer prep is like the check out clerk at
the grocery store asking for a dollar for ringing up your groceries.

---
Kevin Spetz
kss8l@mtaac.bme.Virginia.EDU


Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: goyal@utdallas.edu (MOHIT K GOYAL)
Subject: What kind of gas to use with a '90 Volvo 740 Turbo?!?!
Organization: Univ. of Texas at Dallas
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:37:04 GMT

Hello.

I do not know very much at all about cars, so please excuse my ignorance.

I just purchased a 1990 Volvo 740 Turbo from some relatives.  It has almost
50,000 miles on it.

Can anyone tell me if I will gain anything from using the high-octance 
unleaded gasoline being sold, over the (cheaper) "normal" unleaded gasoline?

Also, can any Volvo owners tell me how many miles I can expect this car to
last me, assuming I get in no major accidents and perform regular
maintenance?(ie-take care of it)

Thanks.

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Saturn Do It Yourself Mtce.
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:47:39 GMT

In article <ryb26.726503224@jab64mws> ryb26@cas.org (Richard A. Ball) writes:
>cherkaue@ee.rochester.edu (Brian Cherkauer) writes:
>
>>You have obviously never owned a mid-eighties Ford Escort with lifetime
>>lubed tie-rod ends which require replacement every 30K miles. (At $100
>>each unless you do it yourself, I might add.)
>
>When I had the brakes replaced on my '89 Escort, the Midas guy told me the
>tie-rod ends frequently go bad because the car was designed with front
>tires that are too big.
>--

let me guess...midas is selling tires now too!  seriously though..the ford
escort is one of the crapiest designed cars on the road.  they finally got
smart and had mazada design their latest escort for them.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: djm48887@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Dan Moisson)
Subject: Opinions wanted on adding "Heet" to your tank.
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 22:16:16 GMT

I wanted to know some of your opinions on adding Heet or
other gas line and tank driers.  Some are isopropanol<SP>
and others are Methanol.  Could these be harmfull to our
fuel-injected cars or trucks with fuel sensors or
whatever???
-- 
MY sig!!
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: issa@cwis.unomaha.edu (Issa El-Hazin)
Subject: Re: Before Buying Japanese.
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 02:07:10 GMT


>>>funny that the Germans don't seem to have nearly as large a markup on their
parts,
>>>but then, they ship by tunnel through the earth.
>>
>>German cars cost less (on average) than Japanese to fix??
>>Go and check your data. You read it upside down.

>The above statement does not imply that German cars cost less to repair,
>it simply states that the parts are not marked up as much (% wise). 

My fault. To me, Fixing includes parts and labor. Still, are you sure
that German car parts are not marked up as much? I don't know about this
one. What I know, they on average cost more to have them worked on. 

>Incidentally, I did a front brake job on my '87 VW about a month ago, 
>including new rotors. All the OEM parts cost as follows:
>2 rotors @ $12.95 each
>1 set of pads @$14.95
>1 caliper bolt @$1.80
>---------------------
>      total:   $42.65

Rotors for $12.95? Geez, I should've replaced the rotors on my ex-ex-VW
when they wore down to about .5" thick.

>The car had ~95k miles on it and it had the original brakes with about 30%
>of the pads left. Even if it cost me $200, it would still be a deal.

Many newer brakes have a life expectancy of over 120k miles.

>>Yea, the Samurai rolled over easily. But, does this mean every Japanese car
>>roll over easily. Geez, the big 3 are known for building major junk in
>>their days. Do I need to name a couple of hundreds for ya? 

>Many Jeeps, Blazers  etc. are also prone to roll over quite easily. I believe
>my mechanic friend who has been owned 3 different blazers over the past 15-20
>years described them as tending to "flip on a  dime".

Agree.
This is due to the center of gravity being so high off the ground.

>>>> >4. A portion of the profits from every car will be paid to car magazine 
>>>> >   writers in the form of "consultation fees" to insure that they will
>>>> >   ignore any flaws in the Saturn, inflate performance figures, and 
>>>> >   create a big hoopla about any minor problem with cars built by
>>>> >   other companies. 

>And I'm sure Honda can't afford to do the same. That statement is a bit
>paranoid.

A bit paranoid? how about a lot paranoid!!

>If it's not German, it's not worth driving.

Including the bug!

Germans MADE the best?? cars (and TVs/Stereos). I'm not taking anything away 
from them, they are at least one of the best nowadays, but the price is on 
the high side when considering that you can get a Japanese [or an American] 
car that is almost as good or better for a better price. Of course, this also 
depends; if you want the ultimate car and money is no object which is rarely 
the case. 
I had my fair share of German [and American] cars, but Japanese cars are for 
me, at least, for now. Sorry.

>--Jim

Issa

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: wesf@boi.hp.com (Wes Fujii)
Subject: Re: New car bargaining
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:13:14 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

George Mills (mills@athena.lkg.dec.com) wrote:

: I don't think they care about 1 week. It takes almost a week to put all
: the paper work together. financing, registration etc. They probably do
: care about end of year and quarter though.

I read this in an article somewhere.  The paperwork on the last 3 vehicles
I've purchased (in the past 2 years) have all taken less than 1.5 hours.  I
think your dealers are slow or maybe your state regulations are slower that
ours.

: >  3) It always helps to leave.  Salespeople don't like it and they see
: >     their commission walking out the door.  When you leave, always be
: >     on the way to see another car or be going back to recheck another
: >     one.
: 
: You can bluff to :-)

That's what I "meant" in my statement on "always be on the way..."

: It really doesn't matter what shape your car is in. They almost
: always use the book for dealer trade in. The only thing he looks
: for it serious damage. Like no engine. It's always better to sell
: on your own even with the risk of lemon laws.

Many trade in's are too old to be in a bluebook somewhere and it is
up to the appraiser to convince you as to its value.  We gained about
$400 on a car that would have otherwise brought about $200 because of
this technique.

I agree it's always better to sell your car on your own if you have
the patience.  Where we are, you can save a few $'s by trading for
the same price due to the way state tax laws work...

Wes Fujii
________________________________________________________________
      ___   ___ ___ 
     /  /  /  //  /
    /  /__/  //  /    A real motor is an Oldsmobile Rocket 455
   /  HURST //  /     "This is NOT the new generation of Olds"
  /  /  /  //  /_______ 
 /__/  /__//  //  ___  \
          /  //  /   \  \       Wes "BANZAI" Fujii
         /  //  /OLDS/  /          Boise, Idaho
        /  / \  \___/  /      wesf@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
       /__/   \_______/
From: duncan@informix.com (Duncan Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Opinions: 4runner, Explorer and Pathfinder
Date: 6 Jan 93 19:42:43 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

Hello again,

I am still waiting to hear from all of you who have 
recently purchased loaded 4runners, Explorers or
Pathfinders.  Several people have requested that I
post the results of my inquires, but I have not had
many responses... THERE must be more of you out there!
What-a-ya think?

	-Price paid (what options...)
	-Your feeling on quality
	-handling,power, yatta yatta yatta...

Thanks Folks,
Duncan

-- 
                    /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\                A/~~\A
                    | -     Duncan Moore     - |               ((o  o))___    
                    |     Informix Software    |                 \  /     ~~~
    #               |     Programmer/Analyst   |  #              (--)\    #  
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: prange@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Henry Prange)
Subject: Re: Mini-van or utility vehicle...4WD vs gas mileage
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:49:10 GMT

Unless you have a huge bladder and so have no need to stop for hundreds of
miles, your concern with mileage is misplaced. Fuel costs, especially with
gas so cheap in the US, are a small part of the cost of ownership. The
difference between 18 mpg and 25mpg will be trivial.

Get an Explorer.