HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Mike@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Mike)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.rides
Subject: Re: Africa bike ride
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:12:00 GMT


 -=> Quoting Ralph Yozzo to All <=-


 RY> I think that this is of interest to this newsgroup:

 RY> MINNEAPOLIS (UPI) -- Minnesota bicyclists Dan and Steve Buettner
 RY> leave Wednesday to begin a 10,000-mile trek from the north coast of
 RY> Africa to the continent's southern tip.
 RY> The two brothers, ages 32 and 27, have an impressive resume of
 RY> previous long-distance travels, having biked 15,536 miles from Alaska
 RY> to Tierra del Fuego in 1987 and 12,888 miles around the world, loosely
 RY> along the 46th parallel, in 1990.
 RY> Joining them on their latest adventure will be Dr. Chip Thomas, 35,
 RY> of Arizona. Two Africans, Mobolaji Oduyoye of Nigeria and Mike Mpyangu
 RY> of Uganda, will take turns with them, as well.

	My best wishes to all involved. Sure hope they have some good gel
 saddles  :)

... Take my advice, I don't use it anyway.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10

 * Origin: Two Wheelers - The Bicylists' Communications Link (1:106/88)
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles:23618 rec.motorcycles:38500
From: mjaneba@willamette.edu (Mark Janeba)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Spanning The Globe
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:06:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: willamet.BxBBz6.6D5
Organization: Willamette University, Salem OR

In article <4236@cvbnetPrime.COM> tjohnson@atc1.UUCP (Tod J Johnson) writes:
>Men, Woman, Children, Mr, Nugent;
>
>	As you know I spend 10-14 hours a day in research libraries
>all over the globe uncovering little known facts .....

[semi-interesting stuff deleted]

>*3 out of every 4 motorcyclists make up 75% of the motorcycling population
> while only 2 out of every 5 bicyclists make up only 40% of the bicycling
> population.
 	
	Is this part a gag, or do you want to clarify it?

If 2 out of every 5 bicyclists made up 75% of the bicycling population, that
would be _very_ interesting indeed.

-math literacy strikes again!
-Mark Janeba
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,misc.fitness
From: allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren)
Subject: Re: Winter Warmth: Lycra Vs. Everything else
Organization: Test Systems Strategies, Inc., Beaverton, Oregon
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 23:14:02 GMT

My own experience has been that my lycra pants were not
very warm.  I always had to wear something else over the
top of my lycra pants.

allen 
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles:23651 rec.bicycles.soc:1002
From: Jym Dyer <jym@mica.berkeley.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Peds on Boston Bike Path (was: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist...)
Date: 15 Nov 1992 08:35:54 GMT
Organization: The Naughty Peahen Party Line
Distribution: usa
	<1992Oct28.221040.21633@netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: tomk@netcom.com's message of 28 Oct 92 22:10:40 GMT
Followups-to: rec.bicycles.soc

[Note that rec.bicycles is due to be retired, and that the new
newsgroup for this discussion is rec.bicycles.soc.  Please post
followups to rec.bicycles.soc only.  If you don't have this new
newsgroup, ask your sysadmin to turn it on.]

>> The other great thing [meant sarcastically] is to have people
>> walk on the left hand side, completely ignorant of the fact
>> that THEY are the main traffic flow on a path and should
>> therefore be on the right.
> The idea is that pedestrians that are confronted with a
> bicycle riding directly towards them will be aware of the
> vehicle, while those walking to the right will not notice the
> presence of a bicyclist until he is upon them. Walking to the
> left and then stepping off of the path onto the verge is the
> proper behavior of pedestrians on bicycle paths.

=o= No it isn't:  pedestrians do not belong on bicycle paths
*at* *all*.  Bicycle paths are for bicycles.

=o= On mixed use paths, the proper behavior of pedestrians
is to keep to the right, single file, keeping an eye out for
others with faster means of transportation, and stepping off
of the path when those others come by.

=o= If a pedestrian can't manage to pay that requisite amount
of attention, he or she should stay off mixed use paths and
keep to the sidewalks.
    <_Jym_>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Attention Kiwis!
From: rabbi@kiwi.gen.nz (Rabbi Bajzheet)
Date: 13 Nov 92 23:28:21 GMT
Organization: Household UNIX, Auckland, New Zealand
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Next Thursday (the 19th), the Steve Roberts `Donahue' will (finally!) be
screened (TV3, 1:05pm).

Briefly, Steve Roberts is a bloke who rides a recumbent bike with a
SPARCstation on it, some PCs, a Mac, satnav and GPS geat, radios, and all sorts
of other cool stuff on it :-)

Anybody interested in cycling, long distance touring, large scale networking or
general techie stuff should watch this.

Have fun - Rabbi

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: praetzel@maxwell.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel)
Subject: Re: Should lights be req. Std. Equipmen
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:23:12 GMT

In article <1702500017@igc.apc.org> Dave Snyder <davesnyder@igc.apc.org> writes:
>
>In a city, it is unneccessary for cars to have such bright 
>headlights. In foreign countries, I'm told, cars routinely
>drive with just their parking lights on in the city, relyin
>on ubiquitous street lights for most vision. I think that would

Interesting.  However, the safety guardians are now forcing us to drive
with our headlights on all of the time under penality of the law.  Of course
the first thing that I disabled on my car was those blasted daytime-running
lights.  Its a sick way to eat up 4 mpg and go thru $15 halogen bulbs every
year.  The current mind-set of our dear governments is that we are too
stupid to know when to turn on the headlights (I see an example every few
days).  They therefore force us to waste energy and resources because of a
braindead few.  That sort of mentality will no doubt ban bicycles because
they can not survive a 5 mph crash test, roll-over test, have no seatbelts,
no paded dashboard, no windshield wipers (windshield is not required but
the wipers are) etc.
  - Eric 

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joel Plutchak)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Risk ratio (was: Ticketing illegal cycling)
Date: 6 Nov 1992 14:19:23 GMT
Organization: Brown University Planetary Geology
NNTP-Posting-Host: pilsner.geo.brown.edu

In article <1992Nov5.210207.22987@netcom.com> tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
>It is curious that those people wishing
>to make bicycling 'safer' often ignore the statistics that show
>their methods as being less safe. In some cases I have detected special
>interests but in most it just seems to be people convinced of their
>own infallibility.

   Absolutely.  You hit the nail on the head.  How else to explain those
who rabidly defend their right to break any and all traffic laws while
bicycling, yet expect other road users to comply?
--
Joel Plutchak, Research Programmer/Analyst
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: ncherry@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (neil j.cherry)
Subject: Re: Should lights be req. Std. Equipment?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 15:10:08 GMT

In article <68962@cup.portal.com> SteveSgt@cup.portal.com (Steven Eugene Sergeant) writes:
>	[...]
>Some countries, The Netherlands and West Germany for example, require
>	[...]                                               Should
>lighting be required standard equipment on street-legal bicycles in
>the U.S.A.?
>
>I personally think it's a good idea,	[...]
> [...]   Why can't I buy a 6-speed bike with a chain guard, fenders,
>a sturdy rack, and lighting as standard equipment for commuting purposes?
>	[...]

In East Brunswick NJ you are required to have a lighting system of light
reflectors (Titinium maybe ;-} ) and a bell. They also require yearly
inspection and registration (free and at a local school at easter time).

I think lights are a good idea but I would rather purchase mine after I
purchase my bike. And as far as making it law, keep the goverment away from me
they medal (sp?) way too much already! But only take this as an opinion and
nothing more. 

NJC

PS I obey laws, I have lights, I ride at night and for transport, I wear enough
reflective material to be a annoying and I like it!
From: jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM (John Fox - SunExpress IR)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Yet another uplifting car-bike story
Date: 11 Nov 1992 14:03:01 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jfox@hooksett.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: hooksett.east.sun.com

In article 15556@walter.bellcore.com, kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner) writes:
>From a friend, from the Asbury Park (NJ) Press:
>
>Car hits 2 cyclists; 1 dies
>
>Jackson Township (NJ) - A woman bicyclist was killed and her husband
>injured yesterday afternoon when a car struck them from behind as they
>rode along Bowman Road.
>
>The 35-year-old northern NJ woman was thrown from her bicycle about
>2:30 pm and landed on her back in the woods...
> 
>The woman's husband was knocked onto the windshield of the car, and
>then flipped over its roof and into the woods, police said.  The car
>traveled more than 200 feet, dragging a bicycle, after the crash,...


Uplifting? Is this supposed to be funny? If so, you're sick.

















Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: ncherry@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (neil j.cherry)
Subject: Re: Bicycles and Handguns..
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:58:38 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.170632.5224@leland.Stanford.EDU> sjlt@leland.Stanford.EDU (Sean Lev-Tov) writes:
>In article <Bx903D.6I6@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tlt38517@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes:
>>kruemp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (John Kruempelstaedter) writes:
>>>From the San Jose Mercury News  11/3/92 
>>>Cops seek cyclist who shot assailants.
>>>	[...]
>>After what happened to Bernard Goetz this guy is not likely to come
>>forward wioth his side of the story.  I sure as hell wouldn't.
>>-Terry
>
>I'm not familiar with Bernard Goetz and what happened to him.  Could
>somebody let me/us know please?
>

Sean, Bernard Goetz was a subway rider who shot several youths in the subway.
I beleive that his side of the story was that he felt that they were trying to
rob him and he was trying to defend himself. The other side was that the youths
were just panhandling (begging) and he just began shooting. He was brought to
trial and convicted on a gun possesion charge. The trials and accussations and
media coverage seemed to last forever. Bernard went to jail for about 6 months
and I beleive that he is now on parole.

I've tried to keep my opinions out of this post and I hope I've posted an
accurate account of the incident. (I skipped a lot of details though!)

NJC

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: ampe@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.e.ampe)
Subject: Re: bicyclist SHOOTS attackers
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:25:17 GMT

In article <1992Nov3.181430.3853@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> darose@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David Rose) writes:
[ ... story deleted ... ]
>-----------------------------------
>
>Clearly this fellow was not in any sense a typical cyclist ( do _you_
>carry a semi-automatic pistol when you ride ? ) ...

That's not quite it... your average cyclist wouldn't leave the bike
behind...

John_Ampe@att.com
From: jrdodd@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Should lights be req. Std. Equipment?
Date: 8 Nov 92 16:33:36 +1300
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand


Regarding laws requiring bike lights...

I think the authorities in question just went too far in requiring
that lights be bought with the bikes.  Riders in New Zealand must use
lights at night,  but also have the freedom to buy what they want.

Still,  this means the law is only as effective as it's enforcement,
which usually isn't too strict. Though I do know one friend who was fined
NZ$75 (about US$40) for riding without lights. And as he was wearing black
with no helmet,  I think a monetary fine is getting off lightly!

Jonathan.

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Yet another uplifting car-bike story
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:57:30 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

>DATE:   Tue, 10 Nov 92 21:16:38 GMT
>FROM:   Ken Lehner <kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com>

>Jackson Township (NJ) - A woman bicyclist was killed and her husband
>injured yesterday afternoon when a car struck them from behind as they
>rode along Bowman Road.

[etc.]

Any more information on just how this happened? Was the driver charged 
with anything, or did this get the usual act-of-God treatment from our 
friends the police?

--Michael Smith


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: mec6@quads.uchicago.edu (rini)
Subject: Re: Ticketing illegal cycling
Reply-To: mec6@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 05:07:12 GMT

In article <1992Oct24.043810.11719@microsoft.com> 
davevh@microsoft.com (Dave Van Horn) writes:
 
>We are niggers of the road, and our "representatives" are hoping to get 
>respect by showing our eagerness to whip each other for being uppity.

(I'm posting from my wife's account...)

This reminds me of a song I wrote a number of years ago.  It's sorta
sung to the tune of Bob Marley's _War/No More Trouble_.

         Don't Honk At The Biker

Don't honk at the biker -- he is your friend.
Don't honk at the biker -- respect the biking man.

The time has come to take up the fight
For what we believe to be our right.
There will come a sunny day
When the biker has the right of way.
I and I come take a stand
For the irie biker clan.
Like refugees from a third world country,
We are an oppressed minority.

In this world of hypocrisy
You got to move at high velocity
But the way to rationality
Is to restrain your animality.

In this war on the streets,
        war on the streets,
        war on the streets,
        war on the streets.

In this land of democracy
There is a place of inequality.
When the man run by gasoline
strike down the man who is bicycling.

In this war on the streets,
        war on the streets,
        war on the streets,
        war on the streets.

-Larry  :)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: Dave Snyder <davesnyder@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Date: 10 Nov 92 17:55 PST
Subject: Re: Should lights be req. Std. Equipmen
Nf-ID: #R:cup.portal.com:68962:cdp:1702500017:000:1474
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!davesnyder    Nov 10 17:55:00 1992


Just as important as required lighting for bicycles, 
is required dimming for car headlights. 

In a city, it is unneccessary for cars to have such bright 
headlights. In foreign countries, I'm told, cars routinely
drive with just their parking lights on in the city, relyin
on ubiquitous street lights for most vision. I think that would
be a greta idea in American cities as well. The social beneifts
would be tremendous.
In addition to reducing the high level of light pollution, and
reducing the instances of lights shining into people's homes
at night, it would make the streets a lot safer for bicycling.
Of course, bikes would then *really* have to have headlights, 
becuase they couldn't rely on reflectors, but bicyclists
wouldn't be blinded with oncoming headlights and bikelights
wouldn't be overwhelmend and rendered practically invisible 
by incredibly bright car lights. I saw a bicyclists coming down a hill
beside a car once, at night, and I didn't see the bicyclists until
they passed. The bike had a light, and as I looked more closely, 
I noticed it was a turbo-charged CatEye halogen, one of the
most common lights of the relatively 'bright' class of lights
out there. The regular cateyes are a joke, practically invisible
to the motorist who is accustomed to looking out only for 
car lights at night. With mandatory dimming of car lights in 
cities (perhaps) a retractible shade, bikes' lights would become
a lot more visible.

just my thoughts, 
dave

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: mmf@evolving.com (Mark Frazier)
Subject: Re: Honking
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1992 20:43:00 GMT
Organization: Evolving Systems, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Lyle_Scheer@NeXT.com (Lyle Scheer) writes:
: In article <1992Nov3.203622.19702@emr1.emr.ca> woodgold@emr1.emr.ca (Cathy  
: Woodgold) writes:
: > No.  In my philosophy, A hurting B does not (by itself) justify B 
: > hurting A.  I was pointing out that honking does harm.  The only
: > conclusion I would draw from this is that people should be careful
: > not to honk except when it's likely to do more good than harm.
: > Others can and have drawn other conclusions based on their 
: > philosophies.
: 
: Funny.  I thought cars generally honked just to let you know they were behind  
: you.  In any case, I don't think there's anything we can do about it.
: 
Ok, so surely there must different types of standard honks? In my view, a quick
double honk would be an indication that you are behind them, but a long one
would be a "get the @#$$%$ out of my way!" honk. Of course, with my hair horn
on the truck, it sometimes mis-fires, so apologies to any of you in future
who get a long one from me!

MMF
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: rpetty@mu.sim.es.com (Rich Petty)
Subject: Re: hand-cranked bike sources/donation
Reply-To: rpetty@mu.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:10:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.100430.60756@cc.usu.edu>, bob@cc.usu.edu (Bob
Bayn) writes:
|>Path:
|>javelin.sim.es.com!orca!uunet!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!cc.usu.edu!bob
|>From: bob@cc.usu.edu (Bob Bayn)
|>Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
|>Subject: Re: hand-cranked bike sources/donation
|>Message-ID: <1992Nov12.100430.60756@cc.usu.edu>
|>Date: 12 Nov 92 10:04:30 MDT
|>References: <1702500016@igc.apc.org>
|>Organization: Utah State Univ
|>Lines: 19
|>
|>Ellen Fletcher writes under Dave Snyder's userid
|><davesnyder@igc.apc.org>:
|>> 
|>> Does anyone know of a source for a hand-cranked bike for the
|>disabled? I've
|>> seen pictures of some in the past.
|>> 
|>> There's a disabled boy, about ten years old, who lives in my housing
|>complex.
|>> His father, brother and sister ride bikes, and he watches them
|>longingly.
|>> Once his dad sat him on the saddle of his bike and wheeled him
|>around the
|>> parking lot, much to his delight. I thought I might look into
|>raising funds
|>> to buy him a hand-cranked bike if I could find one.
|>
|>This is such a heartwarming change from recent .bike.soc fare that I
|>was 
|>near to tears.  If you find such a bike, Ellen, I'll kick in 10 bucks
|>and
|>maybe a couple of other readers will, too.
|>
Sounds like a worthy cause!
Count me in for 10 also!
Rich Petty 
Evans & Sutherland
rpetty@mu.sim.es.com
From: casseres@apple.com (David Casseres)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: ticketing illegal cycling
Date: 10 Nov 92 22:41:39 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.soc
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.

In article <1d53fjINNpmj@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, karplus@cse.ucsc.edu (Kevin
Karplus) wrote:
> 
> Illegal bicycling (particularly riding on the wrong side) IS a hazard
> to other cyclists.
> 
> Of the 1131 bicyclists who filled out the 1992 Bike-To-Work Day Survey
> in Santa Cruz County, 254 (22.5%) have "had an accident or near
> accident because someone was riding the wrong way in the bike lane"...
> 
> While the parked cars are a bigger hazard than fellow cyclists, I know
> of one cyclist who spent a week in intensive care and lost his spleen
> and a kdiney, because he wiped out his bicycle trying to avoid two
> idiots cycling on the ride side of the street.  The two idiots were
> not even ticketed, though police took an accident report from them.

I think riding on the wrong side is one of the very few things cyclists do
on the roads that presents a real danger to others -- and even more danger
to themselves, of course.  If someone campaigned to get the police to
ticket cyclists for wrong-way riding, I would have no objection.  My
problem is that these campaigns always seem to turn into campaigns to have
the police ticket cyclists for *running stop signs*, which is a very
different matter.

--

David Casseres
Exclaimer: Wow!
From: casseres@apple.com (David Casseres)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Risk ratio (was: Ticketing illegal cycling)
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:34:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: missmoll.casseres-131192103526
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.soc
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.

In article <1ddutbINNg96@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu
(Joel Plutchak) wrote:
> 
> In article <1992Nov5.210207.22987@netcom.com> tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
> >It is curious that those people wishing
> >to make bicycling 'safer' often ignore the statistics that show
> >their methods as being less safe. In some cases I have detected special
> >interests but in most it just seems to be people convinced of their
> >own infallibility.
> 
>    Absolutely.  You hit the nail on the head.  How else to explain those
> who rabidly defend their right to break any and all traffic laws while
> bicycling, yet expect other road users to comply?

And who are those, pray tell?  I have been following all the debate
carefully, and have seen absolutely no one claim a right to break any and
all traffic laws.

--

David Casseres
Exclaimer: Wow!
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc

drobinso@mendel.une.edu.au (D.Robinson) writes:
>In article <rlewis.720247047@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca>, rlewis@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca (Robert Lewis) writes:
>>As bike-bike collisions are of little interest to our automobile centred
>>culture there aren't many studies of them.  Police statistics are quite
>>unrelialbe on this score, even if a serious injury takes place they are
>>usually not treated or reported as a vehiculur accident and so don't end
>>up in the records (see Stutts et al. 1988:60).  
>
>That may depend on where you live.  In Britain, I know from being carted to
>hospital after one of the 4 times I've been hit by a cars, that they
>include all hospital reports of accidents in the official figures.  So
>a bike-bike accident resulting in road rash, broken bones, wounds etc
>should get counted.
When I on my bike collided with a pedestrian who stepped into road without
looking, the police who were called to the scene took no details of the
accident because no motor vehicle was involved.  This was in Stafford in
1979, so things may have changed since, but I remember no change in
legislation since.

Andrew
From: p-kun@blacklabel.Japan.Sun.COM (Kevin Parrington - Nihon Sun Logistics)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Should lights be req. Std. Equipment?
Date: 11 Nov 1992 03:53:54 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: blacklabel.japan.sun.com


	More on lighting...

	It is standard equip on 98% of all off-the-rack bikes
	sold in Japan.  Along with fenders, a front basket, and
	a bell.  I don't know numbers but a ton of folks here
	ride bikes daily if its on errands, kids going to school,
	dad riding to the train station/office, or mom to the grocery.

	I usually leave the office after dark and I wear a reflective
	vest and use a generator light.  It never fails 50% of the
	people I pass are not using the standard equip, generator lights
	on their bikes.  Could be broken equip, burned out bulb, or
	laziness, I don't know but it pisses me off.  Why?, because
	of the 50% w/o lights half of them ride down the wrong side
	of the road.  This means I'm in a head-on collision path with
	these knuckleheads.

	My point to this, even if they were stand equip, even if there
	was a law requiring them, the police don't have the time, etc, etc 
	to enforce the law.  For off-the-rack bikes I say make it an
	industry standard.  Most off-the-rack purchases are for novice
	recreational riders and children.  It would be good for the children
	to learn some safety aspects.  I can't see the lights raising the
	price of an off-the-rack bike that much.  

	My two cents on the issue...

kp