HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fihsu@athena.mit.edu (Hsu I-wei)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 10:28:16 GMT

In article <1iiqeoINNio6@mozz.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
>	No, but I bet they could if they changed there EISA configuration.
>   The 66/486 EISA model comes with a 500meg 11ms SCSI HD.  If they offered
>   an EISA 33/486 with 200meg SCSI HD, I bet the price would drop quite a bit
>   from the 66/486's $3795.

Agreed, and I've seen EISA systems advertised for $2800. My father was thinking
of getting a new PC (now he's decided to wait), and I found a Comtrade EISA
system with 8 megs RAM, 15" MAG monitor, EISA IDE controller, 210 MB hard
drive, local bus Diamond/Orchid Viper S3 graphics card (which they claim is
faster than the local bused ATI Ultra Pro...) for around $2600. But since he
really didn't need EISA, I wasn't sure if it would just be better to get him
the $2495 Gateway 2000 system. The Gateway got excellent reviews and awards,
and I have no clue regarding how good Comtrade's support is or if it'll still
be around in a year or two.
But anyways, the point of my response was showing that for $2800 he expected
the Amiga to have CD-ROM (while implicitly suggesting that for $2800 he could
have the Gateway 2000 and CD-ROM) so I (sarcastically) countered that for
$2800 I'd expect the Gateway to have EISA. I consider both expectations to
be ludicrous.

>
>							Greg Greene
>                                                        ggg@kepler.unh.edu

Francis
From: mbrown@legend.akron.oh.us (MARK BROWN)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Reply-To: mbrown@legend.akron.oh.us
X-Software: Legend (216-825-2747) UUCPShell v4.9/med20Dec92
X-Disclaimer: Opinions of users do not necessarily reflect those of managment
Date: 11 Jan 93 12:13:45 EST
Organization: The Legend BBS Public Access (216)825-2747

The Purveyor of the Article said that you could get a Clone box for 
around 1/3 price of the Brigde board, so go get a 486 with HD 
controller and 2 megs for 350(roughly a 3rd of the 486 BB). Arexx was 
brought to the amiga by a 3rd party. C= 7 years ago brought multi 
Tasking to the masses, it wasnt
 IBM. C= brought GREAT video and sound out, no one else did. So I am 
still Correct, OS/2 is just being Released in steady numbers, the 
Multitasking Amiga has Been around since 85'. This Might Be rumor, I 
don't know. I heard the OS/2 desinger either Approached or actually 
hired some C= people to work on OS/2.
 Like I said C= did it first and now the rest of the industry is 
following and claiming it thier own. Funny you didn't mention ANY 
THING about the local bus slot or the CPU upgrade slot.
    Mark
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:03:15 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Donald R Lloyd (don@chopin.udel.edu) wrote:
:
: Every once in a while around here someone
: brings up the posting on an internal bulletin board at IBM in the early days
: of OS/2 development in which one of the programmers said something like,
: "Why don't we just buy AmigaOS from Commodore and save ourselves four years?".
:

Yes, Amiga fanatics have been there from the beginning.

:
:      MicroSoft wanted to use a version of BASIC as the integrating language
: ofr OS/2.  Someone brought in some Amigas to show what could be done with
: AREXX, and MS conceded; REXX became part of OS/2.
:

That's hilarious.  IBM invented REXX, but they had to bring in an Amiga
to show it off.  What a joke.

:
:      The Amiga OS can be run from floppy, as can most applications.  Try
: doing a full-blown OS/2 install to a 1.44 meg disk.
:

What for?  You may enjoy installing operating systems on floppy diskettes.
I don't.
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
From: fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: clone prices & doom & gloom
Date: 4 Jan 93 07:24:43 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

In article <9300420.17983@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>, rayhann@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Rayhann CHEE) writes:
> In article <1993Jan3.185526.14646@samba.oit.unc.edu> John.Carver@launchpad.unc.edu (John Carver) writes:
>>
>>I just saw, at a major computer store, a 486/33 machine from a major clone
>>vendor advertized for $999.  This $999 price *inluded* a 15 inch monitor,
>>SVGA graphics in 1024x768x8, and a 2400 modem.
>>

	I saw a 486SX/20 for $599 w/o monitor at a local department store.
	I looked over the machine carefuly and begin to notice that I'd
	seen toasters ( bread kind ) built better that that, I mean it was
	literally thrown together.  I asked the salesman for the straight
	poop, and he told me the company that made the machine had gone
	out of business and thats why the computer was so cheap.  He said
	he'd would recommend it as a second computer, for hacker types I
	guess.  I almost bought it, but it was just too much of an unknown,
	even at $599.

	It only goes to show how PC people are enamoured with numbers.  The
	proliferation of Computer Shopper type mags, prove this.  For an
	interesting parallel, look at the stereo high-fi industry, it is
	totally bland now, except at the high end.  Numbers are good, but
	only if you can interpret them properly.


> 
> Ray
Fred Heitkamp,  ** Not an organization.  My opinions only **

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: e91petmo@odalix.ida.liu.se (Peter /\/\odin)
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Organization: CIS Dept, Univ of Linkoping, Sweden
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:57:41 GMT

emcoop@bnr.ca (hume smith) writes:

>In article <1993Jan11.194909.13115@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

>   BTW, how big is 3.0?  Can it all fit on a single diskette?  I don't know why
>   I'm asking this; it just seems like the AmigaDroids find it vitally important
>   to run their OS from floppy diskettes.

>i don't find it vitally important to do so, but it's damn nice to be able to.
>i'd love to have a hard drive, i'm just either too cheap or too lazy to find
>out what's a good buy.

Even with a hard drive, it's nice to be able to do so. When it just won't
work (just suppose it won't!), it's nice to be able to actually do something.
Er.... not that I would like it, being used to a HD. Why IS OS/2 / Windows
so damn HUGE, anyway?

--
|=Peter Modin - Responses to: e91petmo@und.ida.liu.se===========|
|                             modin@lysator.liu.se              |
| Dept. of of Computer Science, Linkoping University, Sweden    |
|---------------------------------------------------------------|
|         /// /\                ___                             |
|        /// /  \  |\    /| |  /   \  /\                        |
|   \\\ /// /____\ | \  / | | |  ___ /__\                       |
|====\\X//=/======\|==\/==|=|==\___//====\======================|
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@ucs.usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: To VM or not to VM?
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern La., Lafayette
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 22:38:35 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.114451.11992@mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:
>In <C0GpzB.34v@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>>   As standard software, as OS/2 and the Macintosh does?  No.  Does the Amiga
>>have an unsupported third-party VM system available for it?  Yes.
>
>Wonder how you can praise any application software... as it is
>'unsupported third-party' too.
>
>On the Mac you are happy to use programs from anyone, on the Amiga C=
>has to do it all.

Well, I don't think he meant that.  He means that VM is supposed to
be such an important part of a computer that he doesn't trust a 3rd 
party to do it.  And I agree that running VM on a computer is more fundamental,
say, that running a spreadsheet or whatever.

>
>Regards,
>-- 
>Michael van Elst
>UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
>Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
>                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."


-- 
Dan Stephenson   das9674@usl.edu 
"Even inferior PC demos seem to require more RAM than demos for the Amiga 500"
                                                                -John Bickers
"You're probably right.  The Amiga OWNS the demo market." -Jerry Shekhel
From: jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 8 Jan 1993 17:08:16 -0500
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Pomona, NJ
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: faatcrl.faa.gov

jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

>I agree that if you swap constantly, it's time to add more RAM.  That's why
>I wouldn't use OS/2 on a machine with less than 8MB.  However, my point was
>that you can't blame VM for the bad performance of a machine with not enough
>RAM.  Without VM, that machine/software combination wouldn't run at all, and
>that is even worse performance than bad performance.  It's like blaming the
>crutch for your inability to do the 100-yard dash while your leg is broken.

  We can do without the analogies, especially bad ones, ok?  ;-)

  It's certainly not a go/no-go situation.  If you lack VM and the memory to
do everything you want at once, you adapt in order to accomplish the tasks at
hand.

  After all, people *did* get work done in the days before MMU's, VM, MP and
other esoteric niceties, right?

  -jack-
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:33341 comp.sys.amiga.misc:19790
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Tuesday, 12 Jan 1993 05:56:34 EST
From: <PAACC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Byte A4000/A3000T-040 Review
 <1992Dec29.220445.21086@ludd.luth.se> <93008.084819PAACC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
 <C0LDJ4.5Cu@apollo.hp.com> <1993Jan9.222043.4068@news.uiowa.edu>

In article <1993Jan9.222043.4068@news.uiowa.edu>, mtpins@icaen.uiowa.edu
(Michael T Pins) says:
>
>rehrauer@apollo.hp.com (Steve Rehrauer) writes:
>
>
>Yep, exactly right.
>Ever try running a NeXT that *didn't* have an '040 under the hood?
>Ever try running HPVue on anything but a PA-RISC chip with >32 Meg RAM?
>
>Before people start saying that "home" users don't need the above, 20 years ago
>people said that no one would ever *want* a computer in their home.  15 years
>ago no one thought we'd ever need more than 48k RAM in our home computers (and
>no one would ever need something as powerful as a 68000).  Like it or not, in
>todays world high-powered CPUs are everywhere, and RAM is cheap.  With the
>spread of X (and like it or not, it's here to stay) both are becoming required.
>How many "home" users need an '040 in their Amiga today?  Probably not many.
>How many will 2 years from now?  Probably most of them.
>
>--
>*****************************************************************************
>* Michael Pins                |   Internet: amigapd@isca.uiowa.edu          *
>* ISCA's Amiga Librarian      |         #include <std.disclaimer>           *
>*****************************************************************************


  But the Amiga GUI has always been rather good in not needing a very powerful
 CPU to run effectively (well at least 1.3). Run X at home? Why? Now don't get
 me wrong; I can see the need for an 040 at 66MHz. I just don't see why someone
 who just wants to balance a checkbook and write occasional letter to mom nneds
 that power, that's what the 1200 is for. What you seem to be implying about
 running X I think falls outside what is normally considered to be a "home"
 user (and I also realize that that definition is changing but I don't think
 we're at a point where X Windows is part of a "home" system)
 Paul Abreu
From: phudv@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr R B Birkby)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: RISC Amiga?
Date: 11 Jan 1993 17:40:13 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk
Keywords: 
 kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason 'KodaK' Balicki) writes:


>Would it be possible to run 68k machine code ALONG WITH native apps
>(relative to the processor)?  What I'm asking is: when you go into
>"emulation mode" in a RISC processor are you locked in it, or can
>you run different modes at will?

The Acorn Archimedes computer uses a RISC processor to run a multitasking
environment. Acorn have developed software which will multitask in a window
emulating an 8088 PC at speeds comparable to a 286. Hence Windows 3.0(tm) can
be run(albeit slowly) within windows. With a 90 mips chip, 608020
emulation should at least be possible. 

Richard.
-- 
********************************************************************************
*       Richard Birkby                    1st year physics student	       *
*		University of Warwick, Coventry ENGLAND CV4 7AL		       *
******************************************************************************** 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jasonb@cs.uwa.oz.au (Jason S Birch)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Dept. Computer Science, University of Western Australia.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 07:19:13 GMT

In <1993Jan6.003658.24764@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au> davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn) writes:

>OK, here's my opinion:

[... VM is useful for rare occasions when you don't have enough memory. If this
occurs often, you should buy more memory... ]

[... using a paged memory management system gives you VM for free, since it
won't slow the system down when you have enough physical memory ...]

(Sorry in advance if I've misinterpreted something, David :)

I have to agree with David here. If you can implement it in such a way that it
doesn't slow down the system when you have enough physical memory, then IMHO, VM
has to be a Good Thing (TM). If you can't, then an option to turn it off when it
isn't needed would solve that. That should keep everyone happy (unless, of
course, developers start getting lazy and start using up huge gobs of memory
because VM exists).

Now, it seems that there are at least two VM utilities available - Gigamem and
something else (sorry, I don't know the name). Do these in fact work? If so, or
at least, if they can be made to work well, then I see this whole VM thing as a
non-issue. -MB-'s concerns about them being unsupported and breaking in future
OS releases are valid (this *is* turning out to be an interesting year, isn't
it? ;) but could be solved by 1) C= keeping in close contact with the developers
of these utilities to ensure they remain compatible, or 2) C= licencing one of
them (much like they have done with CrossDOS) for inclusion in future OS
releases. The first alternative might be more popular with the developers (keeps
the market open for everybody), the second might be more convenient for the
users (however this would probably effectively limit the VM utility market to
one producer, *and* I suspect would require *everybody* to pay for the addition
rather than just those who feel they need it).

Comments?

>David Meiklejohn (davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au)
-- 
Mr Jason Birch                       _--_|\  Internet: jasonb@cs.uwa.edu.au
Department of Computer Science      /      \ Tel (work): +61 9 380 1840
The University of Western Australia *_.--._/ Fax (work): +61 9 380 1126
Nedlands  W. Australia  6009              v  Tel (home): +61 9 386 8630
From: barrett@astro.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Date: 5 Jan 93 03:19:45 GMT
Reply-To: barrett@astro.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Organization: BLAZEMONGER INCORPORATED

|In article <1993Jan4.230059.4046@mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:
|>Try to open a [Mac] document by double clicking on it when the program is
|>already loaded into memory.  A nice requester appears which tells you that
|>"the program isn't found or is already loaded". You have to use the
|>program's menu to load the file...

In article <C0Czow.2uJ@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
|That has been completely fixed under System 7....  The requester you
|mentioned never appears under system 7....

	Sorry, but that's not correct.  I was using my Dad's MacIIfx running
System 7 last week, and the problem consistently occurred.

                                                        Dan

 //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
| Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
| University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  --  barrett@cs.umass.edu |
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Advocacy? What do you want for the Amiga?
Date: 12 Jan 1993 02:25:17 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <C0oDIJ.Bvo@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>   Get a clue.  ARexx is very nice for people who know what they are doing.
>For integrating software into a 'works' package that would be sold to people
>who do not wish to screw with manuals to figure out how to do something the
>first time they use an Amiga and the pre-bundled 'works' software, relying
>on ARexx to do the integration is not wise.  It would only make the software
>more difficult to learn, causing the people you are trying to attract to
>turn their new Amigas back in for Macintoshes.

Any "works" software that _IS_ written should be written in the form
of multiple, residentable applications and be interapp-linked through
the use of prewritten rexx scripts that simply drop into your rexx:
drawer.  In that way, one gets the flexibility one demands from an
Amiga Works package, and gets the capability to expand upon any
module, or to add a totally new module, simply by plugging in one's
own applications.

>   It would be far better to make the clipboard better and easier to use, and
>write the software so that each uses the new features of the clipboard.  

You've said the clipboard is inadequate several times now.  Why don't
you tell me exactly where the clipboard is "lacking"?  I'm curious.
From the way you're saying what you are, you sound ignorant to "the
way things are", rather than "the way things were".

Greg


--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
From: kar5@po.CWRU.Edu (Kevin A. Roll)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Date: 12 Jan 1993 22:32:27 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: kar5@po.CWRU.Edu (Kevin A. Roll)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, dtiberio@engws10.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) says:

>	I don't have the specs in front of me, but can assure you that the
>AD1016 != Gravis Ultrasound.

After that lengthy rant about BASIC being the language of the future,
shouldn't that be:

 AD1016 <> Gravis Ultrasound.

??? :)


-- 
AMIGA///|  / |/  | | | | | \ /  |\ | | |\ |\ \ / | Intel 80586    = Pentium
    /// |  \S| K |I|\|N|\|  |Y  |/P| |U|/P|/P | Y| Motorola 68060 = Sextium?
\\\///  |  / |\  | | | | |  |   |  |_| |  |   |  | -------------------------
 \XX/   |  got to keep the camera alive tell the world what's going on here
From: cs_e445@ceres (Vlod Kalicun)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Date: 11 Jan 1993 14:44:03 GMT
Organization: Kingston University
NNTP-Posting-Host: ceres.kingston.ac.uk
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

papresco@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Paul Prescod) writes:
: >seven years should be more than enough time for a system to have a highly 
: >polished multitasking OS. Especially when the Amiga multitasking  was very 
: >highly polished by the time it was two years old or so. if we're going to 
: >talk about the shortcomings of a platform, let's deal with all aspects of it.
: 
: And seven years is also plenty for the Amiga to get VM.
: 

Hmmm.. heres something you find interesting..

Theres a program called GigaMem, which gives you I GIG of VM.
Its reviewed in Issue 43 (Feb) 1993 of Amiga Format (UK mag).
ohh BTW HB Marketing are distributing it here in sunny(??!?) England.

Regards..

Vlod
-Amiga Advocate.
----------------------------------------------
Amiga - Anything else isn't worth considering
----------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: bill@west.msi.com (Bill Poitras)
Subject: Overlays vs. Demand Paging (Was: Re: CBM mention on ...)
Reply-To: bill@west.msi.com
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:00:02 GMT

Rick Kelly (root@rkamiga.UUCP) wrote:
: In article <1993Jan8.224416.8446@msi.com> bill@snoopy (Bill Poitras) writes:
: >You think about it.  A demand paging system add NO extra programming
: >time, an overlay system would add enormous amount of programming time
: >for a large program.  Ask the implementors of nethack (a very portable
: >game), who only set up an overlay system for the MS-DOS port because it
: >needs it.  I'm sure they spent quite a bit of time puting the overlay
: >system into place.

: Which version of MSDOS nethack uses overlays?  The version that I have,
: which is on my now unused and dusty MSDOS hd that is sitting on a shelf,
: loaded itself completely into memory.  I don't remember the version number,
: but it was the first version to include the 3 stooges.

You are probably using Nethack 2.3.  The current version is 3.0
patchlevel 10.  The executable is about 800K.  Without using a DOS
extender (it doesn't) the only way to run the code is with an overlay.
I know for a fact that Nethack not only uses overlays, but uses its own
overlay manager.  It use the one in Microsoft C.  

That is another problem with overlay managers, each application has its
own.  But in a demand paging system, all programs use the same paging
system.  If the paging system is made faster, then it helps all
applications, without recompilation.

--
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Bill Poitras    | Molecular Simulations Inc.    | Tel (408)522-9229       |
| (bill)          | Sunnyvale, CA USA             |                         | 
|                 | FAX (408)732-0831             | bill@west.msi.com       |
+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy