HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: riacmt@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Carol Miller-Tutzauer)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: PS to Barnes/Dogs/Souls
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:50:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Bailey makes a very good point, so I thought the post was worth
reiterating:

Post follows:

In article <1992Apr15.032901.13006@b11.ingr.com>, bbrown@b11.ingr.com (Bailey Brown) writes...
>kite@busadm1.cba.hawaii.edu (Ben Nagata) writes:
> 
>>PS to my last post:
> 
>>Listed on his 'not worthy of response list: those belonging to other 
>>religions. (How do you feel about cat-lovers?)
> 
> 
>I think what he meant was that he didn't want to get into a 
>"God is" vs. "god isn't" argument with athiests or a 
>"Jesus was and is" vs. "Jesus was and isn't" argument with
>Jews, Muslims, and others.  I think he wanted to discuss
>whether or not dogs have an eternal soul of the same type
>that Christians are talking about when the talk about 
>"saving souls".
> 
>Too bad there wasn't a way for him to create a temporary 
>subgroup and say, "I'd like to discuss this further, and I'm
>creating a temporary group rec.pets.dogs.religion for those
>who care to join me."  That way, people who freak out and go
>ballistic whenever anyone publically professes their religion
>wouldn't get all offended and suffer mental anguish and emotional
>distress.
> 
>------------
>Bailey Brown                               "Above all else, confusion reigns."
>Intergraph Corporation                                  
>bbrown@casca.b11.ingr.com                              Procol Harum
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: srlee@beta.lanl.gov (Stephen R Lee)
Subject: Re: Friendly dogs as Protection??
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 15:46:55 GMT

In article <10qj88c.sss@netcom.com> sss@netcom.com (Small Systems Solutions) writes:
>In article <1408@heurikon.heurikon.com> 
>	 mikem@ex.heurikon.com (Mike Mayer) writes:
>
>[edited]
>>In my experience (I own two Malamutes) many northern breeds are NOT
>>protective of their owners.  My dogs love all people - they treat
>>friends and strangers the same way.  I think the only way they would
>>help me is by either scaring someone because of their size or by
>>hurting them while pinning them down to lick their face.
>
>Sled dogs, particularly Malamutes, aren't very "people-oriented" dogs --
>they're dog dogs.  Malamutes bitches were frequently tied out when
>in heat so as to be impregnated by wolves.
>
What?  I'll use your word: "bosh".  Malamutes, when bred and socialized
PROPERLY are dogs that are "most affectionate towards its master".  It
seems clear from your comments that you have either never been exposed
to Malamutes, or you have been exposed to some very poorly bred/raised
ones.

>>Sheperd-type dogs have a territorial instinct and an instinct to
>>"protect the flock".  Most northern breeds do not.
>
>Bosh.  Sled dogs have territory -- it's wherever they are!  And I don't
>believe defending territory has anything to do with defense drive.
>
Bosh, bosh, bosh.  Sled dogs are NOT protective animals by nature.  Have you
ever been around sled dogs?  Let me be more specific.  Have you ever been around
Siberian Huskies or Alaskan Malamutes?  On the average, they are NOT what I
would call protective.  There are exceptions, of course, but as any breeder
of these dogs (or in numerous books about these dogs) will tell you, these
are not guard dogs (or watch dogs or protection dogs or whatever term you
wish to use).  In fact, in one book about the breed (Mals), it states
that these dogs are not good watchdogs, as they are likely to greet a burglar
as eagerly as they greet you.  However, they indicated that the SIZE of the
dog is often enough to intimidate the uninitiated about the breed.  If you
want to understand the previous posters comments, pick up a book and read
about the origins of sled dogs, particularly Malamutes.  Territorial?  Yes,
but really in conjunction with OTHER DOGS, not people (again, on the average).

No mean spirited flames intended.  I just get sore when people post
things about breeds that they clearly know very little about.

<stuff deleted>

>Small Systems Solutions                   1563 Solano Avenue, Suite 123
>sss@netcom.com                                  Berkeley, CA 94707-2116
>
>The above-expressed opinions aren't necessarily


srlee@beta.lanl.gov
From: hannah@pomponio.ai.sri.com (Marsha Jo Hannah)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: why pekingese
Date: 6 Apr 92 22:21:19 GMT
	<167C17E55.X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu> <rqhpsINN1ka@moe.ksu.ksu.edu>
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, CA
In-reply-to: terry@eece.ksu.edu's message of 6 Apr 92 22:02:36 GMT

Many years ago, a friend visited us, bringing along his miniature
dachshund.  It was waddling around in the yard, when we noticed that
our largest cat, Brat, was stalking it.  She was about to pounce when
the dog noticed her and barked at her.  Brat straightened up in
startlement, then stomped off, clearly "muttering under her breath"
about dogs that looked like rats.  Since then, we have jokingly
referred to small dogs (i.e. those significantly smaller than cats) as
"cat food".  But rarely within hearing of the owners thereof....

Marsha Jo Hannah
La Honda, CA
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Strange eating habits
Date: 17 Apr 92 20:42:55 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Reply-To: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   

>Do all dogs eat strange things or is it just mine?

Awhile back I put in my two nonsense' worth in a long thread about
what people's dogs ate and what effects upon the poop were noted.
My Doberman, the omnivore of least resistance, has since reached 
the reductio ad absurdum of this matter by consuming an ice cube 
(after elaborate experimentation to learn how to pick it up, 
followed by brief burial of it in his bedding).

Christmas-tree tinsel, a common enough thing for dogs to try,
probably holds the all-time poop-effects trophy.

--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: pastor@prc.unisys.com (Jon Pastor)
Subject: barker breaker
Organization: not much...
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 21:21:10 GMT

Has anyone used a product like the Barker Breaker (an ultrasonic device that
supposedly helps stop dogs from barking by emitting a loud high-frequency
sound)?  Our neighbor's dog has free access to the outdoors, and his yard is
between our houses, less than 20 feet from our bedroom window.  He had a
barking match with a friend one morning at 3:30 that lasted 25 minutes; every
time I'd chase him inside, he'd just wait 'til I went back in and start again.
The Barker Breaker claims to have a range of 30-50 feet; is that accurate?


From: blalock@hpl-otis.hpl.hp.com (Travis Blalock)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 23:36:22 GMT
Subject: Re: Ankle-biting puppy question
Organization: HP Labs, High Speed Electronics Dept., Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs

The phantom at Small Systems Solutions writes:

>>In article <15204@drutx.ATT.COM> 
>>	 mlhb@mammoth.dr.att.com (54626-BonhamM(DR2020)214) writes:
>>
>>Mouthing is normal behavior, but should not be tolerated.  (See my previous
>>post).  Yes, you should punish and try to stop him.

>Stupid, stupid, stupid. "Punish" ?? What exactly do you mean? In any case,
>you are dead wrong.  You want to train the pup eventually not to bite
>
> opinion deleted
>
>>Good Luck!

>Yes. with advice like yours, it's needed!
>-- 
>Small Systems Solutions                   1563 Solano Avenue, Suite 123
>sss@netcom.com                                  Berkeley, CA 94707-2116
>
>The above-expressed opinions aren't necessarily
>----------

Although I am not a frequent poster to this group, I am a frequent
reader and I have always enjoyed the courteous and friendly tone of this 
group.  As a consequence I felt compelled to respond to the above post.

If you are going to be so obnoxious and critical towards other people's
efforts to aid someone, the least you could do is be a little bit more
courageous and use your name rather than a company moniker.  Of course,
judging by your accusing style, maybe 'Small' is your first name. :-)
Please, lighten up.

Travis Blalock
From: berlind@acsu.buffalo.edu (heike berlind)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Strange eating habits
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:07:02 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

In article <92106.220248JJB6@psuvm.psu.edu> JJB6@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>Do all dogs eat strange things or is it just mine???  I have a 3 yr old dog
>who is a husky mix.  I've had him since he was a puppy and over the last 2 yrs
>he has started eating strange things.  Ever since he was little, he would go
>around to the trash cans and get tissues out and tear them up and eat them.
>We've tried to tell him no and have even punished him for doing it, but now
>he is very sneaky and waits until we leave the room.
>As he's gotten older, his eating habits have gotten stranger.  He now eats
>telephone books (well not the whole book, but he tears them up and chews
>pages out of them).  A few months ago, he took a book (actually, it was the
>book Scarlett) of the couch, took the cover off (he barely touched it at all)
>and ate the binding completely off the book.
>He sticks his nose in everything.  He has even gotten into my father's hunting
>equipment, took a bag out of the duffle bag and eaten the B-B's.  Most of the
>things he eats are not out in the open where he can get to them.  He usually
>has to climb up on the furniture or dig through bags.  We even have to put
>loaves of bread out of sight or he will get up to the counter and get them
>and eat them.
>It isn't as though he doesn't have his own food.  We keep his bowl filled all
>the time, but he won't eat it unless someone else is in the kitchen.  If he
>does get hungary for his food, he will stand and bark at one of us until we
>follow him into the kitchen and watch him eat.
>Has anyone else EVER had a problem like this???
>Jennifer

Yes, my Norwegian Elkhound loves everything eatable and not eatable (by
human standards).  He is like your dog, sticks his nose into everything.
I find this kind of behavior scary. Who knows, maybe he eats something that
is poisenous to him.  When I take him on a walk and he sniffs around and is
about to eat something he isn't supposed to eat, I kick him in his rear end
with my ankle. The first couple of times he "flew" over the "whatever-he-
wanted-to-eat". But now he doesn't pick anything up anymore,...well, he
first
checks to see whether I am standing behind him.
One of his favorites are chewed chewing gums.  He picks them up, chews them
until I see him and yell no, with a good jerk at the leash, he than just
spitts it out of the back corner of his mouth.  It is kind of funny to see.

My obedience trainer told me that kicking-into-the-rear-end method.  He said
that we shouldn't kick with our toes, because that could hurt the dog, but
do it with our ankle.
Does anybody have any comments about that?  How do you guys teach your dog
not to pick up and eat something during walks?
Heike
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: smm1@troy.uucp (27352-michelson)
Subject: Re: Housebreaking Idea bad?
Reply-To: smm1@troy.UUCP ()
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 13:02:20 GMT

In article <z=1j91g.sss@netcom.com> sss@netcom.com (Small Systems Solutions) writes:
>
>And never, ever let him see you cleaning up his poop! Ever!

I've read and heard this one before, but I'm unclear why. What's so bad
about letting a dog see you clean up his/her poop?



_______________________________________________________________________________
Steve Michelson                |   Paying tolls is like throwing money out
Bell Communications Research   |   the window.
smm1@troy.cc.bellcore.com      |
From: jnp@po.CWRU.Edu (Jill N. Pappenhagen)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Sending off Eva
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:56:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr16.175657.12168
Reply-To: jnp@po.CWRU.Edu (Jill N. Pappenhagen)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)



Yesterday, my friend took her 9 year old Bernese Mtn. Dog for a last
visit to the Vet. 

Eva was a grand dame.  She won the "Best of Opposite" at last years
BMDCA National Specialty - this at 8 years old!  What a trooper!  

When we were looking at dogs, we met carolyn and the herd of berners...
Carey and Tie were the veterans and they had to give the OK before you
were really accepted as friends.  Eva was the household mother - she taught
all the puppies what was acceptable and how to behave in the house.  It was
almost two years before we could get a dog of our own, and in that time, we
were adopted by Carolyn's dogs.  

Carey, Tie and Eva were not our dogs, but they were our friends.  We learned
that Berners are loving, gentle, patient, fun dogs through our association
with these three.  And this year we have lost all three.  

In honor of them we have planted a rosebush for each.  For Carey we chose
Winter White because she had such a beautiful white chest.  For Tie we
chose Spring Champion because he was truley a champion in every sense of
the word.  Tomorrow we will go and chose a rosebush for Eva.  One that will
represent her spirit, joy of life, and beauty.  

Good bye "Evadava", we're glad to have known you
-- 
===========================    Jill N.J. Pappenhagen
                       Department Assistant, Art Education Dept.
                       Wickendon Hall, Case Western Reserve Univ. 
				 jnp@po.CWRU.Edu=============================
From: schalene@sequent.com
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Dog kills another-is Sheba safe?
Date: 9 Apr 92 15:34:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Apr9.153419.28814
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Apr9.141023.21933@gvl.unisys.com> pastor@prc.unisys.com (Jon Pastor) writes:
>> A very good friend of mine has a Sharpei.  Tia is about 8 months old.
>> 
>> Tia was lying
>> by the body of a male golden retriever.  She had obviously just killed
>> the dog.  She was covered with his blood.
>
>An 8-month-old Shar-pei puppy killed an adult male Golden?  Does anyone else 
>find this a bit incredible?  The smallest male Golden I've ever seen is still
>50-60 pounds, and they run up to 85-100 or more.  The last time I saw a
>full-grown Shar-pei, it didn't look as though it could take on something that
>large and strong.
>
>Anyone know enough about either breed or both to be able to comment on this?

The trainer for our puppy class in the Fairfax area does Shar-pei
rescue.  She says that they've become so popular.  People want one
with taking their size and temperment into consideration.  They show
up at the pound in alarming numbers usually around the age of 9 to 11
months.  She has 4 of her own and 3 "floaters" at her house now.  She 
brings a different one to class everytime.  Her largest one, a male, 
is close to 120 lbs.  The 6-month golden in our class is 55 lbs.

She said their temperament is not usually mean, but they can be
stubborn.  It takes a firm, consistent hand and a lot of time to train
them properly (this is all according to our trainer).  Also, she said
they do get bored easily and then become destructive.
From: crs@beta.lanl.gov (Charlie Sorsby)
Subject: Re: Dog kills another-is Sheba safe?
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 13:50:56 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.202720.23147@news.iastate.edu> sinnott@tc4.fi.ameslab.gov (Susan B. Sinnott) writes:

= Are you both SURE that Tia was the one that killed the golden?  It could
= have been another male and they were fighting over who would mate with Tia.

Good point, Susan.

Thuy-An, I'm embarrassed that I didn't think to make the same point
in my e-mail reply.

= I would have her checked to make sure she is not pregnant because if another
= male was involved, he would have killed the golden and then mated with her.

Does anyone know what the situation is in a case like that?  My
understanding is that there are not tests for preganancy in a dog
(as there are with humans).  Isn't the only way to tell palpation?
And I think that is only reasonably reliable around midpregnancy.
Nevertheless, in either case, it would be worth talking to a good
vet about it.  Whether she killed the Golden or another male did
and then impregnated her, if she's pregnant there's a good chance
that theres a litter of pups with genes for behavior/temperament
problems in there.

= As to if she is safe with other dogs after this incident if she DID kill the
= other dog, I have no idea....

Same here but I would be very apprehensive...


-- 
Best,

Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby				"I'm the NRA!"
	  crs@lanl.gov
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: bbrown@b11.ingr.com (Bailey Brown)
Subject: Re: Vicious dog definition
Keywords: vicious
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 03:19:02 GMT

bradav@auto-trol.com (Brad Davidson) writes:

>First... The meter was within the fence of the back yard, thus making the
>    backyard considered public access.

If the meter was in the fenced part of the yard, then why hadn't this
problem come up before?  It was my impression that the utility worker
wanted to access some other, less obvious, piece of hardware, and
that this piece of hardware was in the fenced part.  In either case,
it wasn't an emergency that the job be done right away.  

>Second... The dog was loose in the back yard, which means the dog was loose
>    in the public access which would be the same as loose in your front yard.

No, this is different.  A dog loose in the front yard can menace people
walking down the sidewalk.  A dog loose in a fenced backyard can menace
only those people who choose to go in there.  I could understand the need
to kill the dog if he were preventing access to an unexpoloded bomb or
an injured person, but not in the case of the utility company wanting to
to shut off the power for non-payment of bills.  The utility company's
response was, "this wouldn't have happend if they had just payed their
electric bill."

>Third... The dog was reported to have lunged and charged the meter man who
>    was there to turn off the electricity for non-payment. The dog backed up
>    when the police should up and drew the gun but was reported as lunging
>    at the officer so he shot the dog because he feared bodily injury.

These people were very stupid to go in the yard in the first place.  It was
not an emergency.  

Why didn't they call animal control?  Why didn't they just say the hell
with it, go on to the next job, and make arrangements to deal with the
owners later?

>Bottom Line:  A dog can not protect the public area of your house.  This is
>    in line with laws for persons.  You can not protect your front yard from
>    tresspassing in a city.  You can not shot a robber that is not in your
>    house.  A dog can not cause a person to fear bodily injury.

I'm just sick and tired of dogs being treated like disposable dishrags.
Killing a dog ought to be taken more seriously than it is.

>We may not like it but that is the results. If you do not want to put your
>dog at risk then do not have meters and such in your back yard or have
>your dog in a kennel.

>Brad Davidson

------------
Bailey Brown                               "Above all else, confusion reigns."
Intergraph Corporation                                  
bbrown@casca.b11.ingr.com                              Procol Harum
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: bbrown@b11.ingr.com (Bailey Brown)
Subject: Re: ? Dutch Shepherd ?
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 18:53:50 GMT

>In article <1992Apr14.151109.15168@ll.mit.edu> 
>	 wjc@ll.mit.edu (Bill Chiarchiaro) writes:
>>
>>  I asked the handler what kind of dog it was, and "Dutch Shepherd"
>>was his reply.  I wasn't able to talk with him more nor to take a
>>really good look at the dog.  It was a little more compact than a GSD
>>or a Golden Retreiver.  It had a sturdy build, but it wasn't overtly
>>muscular.  The coat was of short-to-medium length, and had a
>>salt-and-pepper coloration.

I looked up "Dutch Shepherd" in my Simon and Schuster's breed
guide and it was there.  There were no other names listed even
though this book normally lists the breed's other names, if any.
The dog in the picture looked like a grey Malinois with unusual
black stripping (not exactly brindle).  The description sounded
like that of the Malinois.  It seems that these breeds are
very similar.

------------
Bailey Brown                               "Above all else, confusion reigns."
Intergraph Corporation                                  
bbrown@casca.b11.ingr.com                              Procol Harum
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: kite@busadm1.cba.hawaii.edu (Ben Nagata)
Subject: Barnes & Do Dogs Have Souls
Organization: College Business Administration, University of Hawaii
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 21:23:37 GMT

Toast the arrogant SOB's butt!!!! What FAQ did he get his final answers 
from? It's because of snotty people like this that I tell the Seventh Day 
Adventists to leave or I will have them arrested for trespass. My place is 
posted: no soliciting (sales or religious). Dogs and cats ARE welcome!

The reason: I had one SOB ask me if I believed in God. I was called a '
LIAR' when I answered in the affirmative (I guess because I didn't subscribe 
to their particular version of the 'Man Upstairs'. I tolerate everything 
except stupidity and intolerance and this just about covers both.

The clincher: he will not respond to - criticism, atheists (and just about 
anybody else who disagrees).

Mr. Barnes: you have just EARNED yourself a permamnent place in my kill file.
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Thursday, 16 Apr 1992 12:29:59 CDT
From: Kimberly Laird <U30993@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: recessive traits in dogs <was long haired GSD>
Distribution: rec.pets.dogs
 <1992Apr16.153115.28777@tfs.com>

I worked in a kennel that raised beagles : among the
recessive traits displayed were lemon colored , chocolate,
long-haired.

The chocolate long-hairs were really beautiful dogs,
but we had several Japanese people who were touring the
kennel who characterized the dogs as inferior due to that variation!

These variations were due to a closed population which,
of course, intensified certain genetic recessives.

%-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-%=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-%
Kimberly J. Laird
 *University of Illinois-Chicago
   *BITNET:U30993@UICVM//INTERNET:U30993@UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU
%-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-%=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs