HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hsmoliar+@cs.cmu.edu (Harold Smoliar)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Cor ANGLIAS or ANGL'E
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:12:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Apr08.181239.14971
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <VANCE.92Apr7104122@kyoto.speech.sri.com> vance@speech.sri.com (Vance Maverick) writes:
>
>In article <CB.92Apr7110212@tamarack12.timbuk> cb@tamarack12.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
>
>   I have a question, which may have been already answered by implication, but
>   I need it spelled out: how are oboe, English horn, and bassoon related?  Is
>
>The English horn is essentially a scaled-up oboe, but the bassoon is
>quite different in construction, fingering and even reed style.  The
>only ways I recall EH differing from OB are the angle in the reed
>tube and a sort of swelling at the bell.
>
>	Vance

Let's not forget that the EH is pitched a fifth lower than the oboe but is
lacking a fingered low Bb[the oboe's lowest note] and so only goes down to a
fingered B[that is to say the E below middle C].  
And the angle is the bocal that the reed is placed on, not the reed itself.
But you are right about that swollen bell.  Have you ever seen the Hoffnung
drawing of the English hornist who has just *layed and egg*?
Harold
hsmoliar@db1.speech.cs.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tom@capalo (Thomas Cheung)
Subject: cds from NAXOS ???
Keywords: classical,cd
Organization: Intergraph, Palo Alto CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 20:19:43 GMT


Hello,

Anyone out there has listen to classical cds from
the label NAXOS, I am curious to find out their 
recording and artistic qualities. Any comments welcome!
       
I can be reached at  tom@capalo.ingr.com
Thanks in advance.

-- 
****************************************************************************
THOMAS K. CHEUNG        *                        cheung@capalo.ingr.com   
INTERGRAPH CORP.        *                        uunet!ingr!capalo!tom
Tel:   (415)972-4140    *
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: Best Mahler cds?
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 21:19:08 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.133511.1356@tellab5.tellabs.com>, young@tellabs.com (Craig Young) writes:
> In article <1992Apr3.131945.1980@visual.com> rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel) writes:
>>
>>>  I was wondering what your opinions are as to which are the best versions of
>>>  the various Mahler symphonys.
>>
>>1st:  Solti/London Symphony (NOT the Chicago DDD recording) (available
>>	in a 2-disc set at mid-price, along with a wonderful reading of
>>	the 2nd from the same series -- both versions sound better to
>>	me than his later digital retreads.)  Both on Decca.
>>
>>	If DDD is essential, I hear the new Tennstedt on EMI is awesome.
>>	Haven't heard it yet myself, sad to say.
> 
> I have the EMI Tennstedt/CSO recording, and it IS an astounding recording. I
> have heard the CSO perform this symphony three times, but did not hear the 
> concert that this recording comes from. Sound is very good, playing is up
> to the usual CSO standards, and the interpretation is very different from
> any other recording I have heard of this symphony, but it works.

I agree that the Solti CSO is terrible. How about the Kubelik though? Listen 
to the way the strings bounce out of the speakers at you during the closing
pages, NOBODY else has ever done this as well (he says, counting the 20 odd
versions in his collection). The Horenstein is also excellent.
 
>>5th:  Bernstein/Vienna on DG or Tennstedt/London on EMI.  Accept no
>>	substitutes.

Barbirolli, EMI, except for the finale which is really too slow.
 
9th:  Giulini/Chicago on DG (mid-price).  I hear the later Bernstein
>>	is good.  I don't get the big deal over the Karajan/DG.  
> 
> The Giulini/CSO recording of Mahler 9 is a great analog recording of a
> great performance and interpretation.

I agree about the Karajan, the digital (CD) version is to my mind not as good 
as the earlier analog (LP only) recording. You should definitely hear the
1938 VPO/Walter recording - the very first and a true classic. BUT the best
version I have EVER heard is on Music and Arts, the LSO conducted by Horenstein
live in London in 1966. I was at the performance and it was incredible. The sound
is less than perfect but the performance will bring tears to your eyes.
 
Deryk Barker
Computer Science Dept.
Camosun College,
Victoria, BC
Canada
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer)
Subject: Re: government and the arts
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Dept. of Independence
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 17:16:00 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.124058.264@Princeton.EDU>, roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes...
>Well, the government has been subsidizing performances of Schoenberg and
>Webern for some time now, and I haven't seen many people casting their


So we've established that citizens will accept the government 
subsidizing art to which they're indifferent. They'll probably
even accept subsidizing =adventurous= art, as long as they can 
remain indifferent to it. So the issue is with art that is
repellant. What's needed there is not ideology, but pragmatism.
A simple solution: Let those who review applications to
government granting agencies refer those applications that might
cause bad press to private foundations which they know are
interested in backing that kind of stuff. It wouldn't need to be
formally enunciated policy to do this, it would just require
that well-connected people be appointed to the grant-giving
positions. 

Incidentally, I'm indebted to this discussion for revealing 
the title of the Serrano photograph. The problem, I see now,
with the Serrano photograph was its title, not its content.
The NY Times couldn't print the title, so their stories about 
it left me mystified as to how anybody could get excited over
a crucifix immersed in a yellow fluid that could very well be
apple juice. 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: wjh@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (william.j.hery)
Subject: Re: Transcriptions of famous pieces for guitar
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 13:17:32 GMT

>I once heard the finale from Stravinsky's "Firebird" suite on guitar,
>but don't know who played it. Can anyone help?

Larry Coryell made three recordings of Stravinsky transcriptions in the
early/med 80s; I believe the three LPs were Firebird, Rite of Spring, and
Petrouschka (sp?). The LPs were intentionally kept short to maintain
low noise and dynamic range. I believe a couple of them were paired on
a CD reissue, but I'm not sure.

Coryell is best known as an excellent jazz guitarist, and I have seen his
Stravinsky recordings mis-filed in the jazz bins because of this; but they
are straight transcriptions.

Bill Hery
AT&T Bell Labs
201-386-2362
hery@att.COM
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: n2473@cray.com (Robert Bernard)
Subject: Re: John Harbison
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 13 Apr 92 07:25:12 CDT

In article <1992Apr10.173600.87311@cs.cmu.edu> hsmoliar+@cs.cmu.edu (Harold Smoliar) writes:
>I like Harbison's music a lot.  We had him as our composer-in-residence back
>when Previn was still the Music Director here.  He did a piece for us--
>actually it was a section of a larger work in progress--called *Ulysees Bow*.
>We recorded it--I think for Nonesuch but I really can't remember.
>His woodwind quintet is a dynamite piece and he wrote a little sort of oboe
>serenade with strings called Snow Country.

Harbison is now the artistic director of the St. Paul Chamber Orchestra.

The notes of concerts in which his music is performed (and often which
he conducts) mention that he likes to do his composing in rural Wisconsin,
when possible.  I don't know if that is where he grew up.  

As a whole I like Harbison.  Except two Sundays ago, he conducted a song
cycle featuring a soprano I had never heard before.  I hated it.

BB

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: Info requested on Theremin
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 01:19:53 GMT

In article <ku13qkINNddl@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM>, dre@ember.Eng.Sun.COM (David R. Emberson) writes:
> > 
> Sound tracks from '50s sci-fi films are probably the most notable Theremin
> literature.


I believe Charles Ives wrote an optional theremin part into his 4th symphony
after the instrument was invented. Can't say I've detected it on any of the five
recordings.

Listeners might be familiar with its sound which was heavily featured in "Good
Vibrations" by Les garcons de la Plage. (Sorry, a little bilingualism sneaked
in there :-)).

Deryk Barker
Computer Science Dept.
Camosun College,
Victoria, BC
Canada
From: menon@ftp.phy.uab.edu (Govind Menon)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: sheet music
Date: 10 Apr 92 02:08:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: cis.1992Apr10.020838.6184
Organization: University of Alabama at Birmingham

I am looking for the sheet music to "The entertainer (Classical guitar
transcription)". Any info on where I can get them? 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay)
Subject: Re: WHAT ABOUT PDQ BACH!
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1992 18:42:03 EDT

In article <1992Mar23.234802.6121@cs.rose-hulman.edu> stinerkt@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Kevin T Stiner) writes:
>Does anyone out their enjoy the antics of PDQ Bach?
>I heard that PDQ Bach was no longer going to compose
>anymore.  Is this try?
>What is available on cd so that I can have a complete
>collection? (I have Oedipus Tex and 1712 Overture).
>Thanks
>                        KEVIN T. STINER


At the risk of making Gabe crazy, I'd like to suggest that this
probably should qualify as a Frequently Asked Question.

(For those who read this and don't know the reference, someone
is presently compiling an FAQ list for this group -- stout fellow!)

Chris Ischay
chrisi@bos.camex.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: Mahler on disc
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 18:52:06 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.191442.29291@dsd.es.com>, pdelafos@djulien.dsd.es.com (Peter Delafosse) writes:
> Deryk Barker writes:
> 
>> ... Some devotees of the late Leonard
>> Bernstein have even suggested that it took a conductor of his
>> persuasive advocacy to convince people of the worth of the
>> music; but this ignores, unfairly I believe, the sterling
>> efforts of the previous generation of Mahler conductors (Walter,
>> Klemperer, Horenstein, Mitropolous) who had spent so long as
>> lone voices crying in the wilderness.
> 
> Can Maurice Abravanel be added to the list of lone voices? I believe he
> was conducting Mahler before Bernstein's "discovery."

Well in a sense, but I don't think he made any real impact did he? Recordings
I've heard by him tend to be badly played, badly recorded and pretty
tediously conducted.
> 
> Also, do the majority of Mahler recordings stay in print? I tend to buy 
> recordings of music not readily available on the radio or in concerts and 
> have been frustrated many times at the speed with which some recordings are
> deleted.

I think that Mahler, being big box office these days, _does_ tend to stay
in print longer than many another composer.
-- 
Deryk Barker
Computer Science Dept.
Camosun College,
Victoria, BC
Canada
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: government and the arts
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:45:14 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Apr11.012540.10514@scubed.com> hap@scubed.com (Hap  
Freiberg) writes:
 Writers of Faulkner's and Twain's stature are found in any
> literary tradition. They were not unique nor inventive...you might have  
mentioned
> Burroughs or Wolfe.

What does the fact that "writers of [this] stature are found in any
literary tradition" have to do with the case in point?  The point
was to show that America does indeed have a "culture."  In fact,
your statement reinforces this.

> >|> Culture has always been the province of either the wealthy
> >|> or the weird.
> >
> >Well, since I certainly am not wealthy, and since I enjoy music, art,
> >and literature, you must be claiming that I'm "weird". Do you make
>  
> What I meant to imply was that it has been the wealthy who have had
> the money to provide the support for the artist and that the non-
> wealthy supporter was/is often looked upon by the John Wayne types as
> perhaps a bit less than manly. An example could be the perception that
> male ballet dancers aren't really all that male...Poets "manly"? 
> How about those that support ballet and poetry? Would you "ride the
> trail" with them?

Are you assuming that the world is divided into three parts: 
the rich, the non-wealthy who suppor the arts, and the non-wealthy
who admire John Wayne?  The latter aren't very common, and the
attitude you seem to think prevelant isn't really.  While I have
run into people who don't understand WHY I like classical music
or William Faulkner (and who would prefer to go to a football 
game), none of them would, as you put it, refuse to "ride the
trail" with me. 


--
Jim Mann                                       
jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com 
Stratus Computer
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steyn@cs.rochester.edu (Gavin Steyn)
Subject: Re: Transcriptions of famous pieces for guitar
Organization: Computer Science Department University of Rochester
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 02:13:29 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.113014.1@camins.camosun.bc.ca> dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca writes:
>I also recently heard a transcription of the first movement of Beethoven's
>Fifth on the guitar, mercifully I cannot remember the culprit. It seemed
>to me like a perfect example of how to trivialise a masterpiece. I had
>a similar reaction to a two-guitar version of Bach's Goldberg Variations.
>Both recordings reminded me of why I gave up playing classical guitar
>over 20 years (sigh!) ago.

I imagine I would have a similar reaction to the Beethoven, but I must
admit that I see no innate reason why transcribing the "Goldberg Variations"
trivializes them, unless lots of notes were left out and/or the guitarists
played badly.  Most of the Bach transcriptions I've heard work very well.
(It's not as if they were originally written for piano either :-) ).
  I'm also not sure why this sort of thing would lead to dropping the guitar--
a lot of music transcribes pretty well.  Just for example, parts of Carmen,
or of De Falla's work sound really nice when played on guitar.  Now, the
"New World" symphony is pushing it, but you can just ignore that sort of
thing...  And, of course, you can confine yourself to works originally written
for the instrument.

Gavin Steyn
steyn@cs.rochester.edu
"There are times, Jeeves, when one wonders, 'Do pants really matter?'"
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: _The Love for Three Oranges_
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:26:09 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.151242.6003@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu>
 dkmenser@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Kirk Menser) writes:
>I have read that the march from Prokofiev's TLFTO was used as the
>theme for a popular television series.  Does anyone know which
>series?

The FBI, of course!  (On radio, too, I believe.)

TRIVIA: what other connection with "classical" music does that show
have?  (Easy for some of us...)

Roger
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: government and the arts
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:28:41 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Apr15.121438.15671@nuscc.nus.sg>  
smoliar@hilbert.iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar) writes:
> Actually, the first time the Jesse Helms story surfaced on this  
bulletin board,
> I raised this point and argued that it was not enough.  Ultimately, I  
think we
> need more INCENTIVE for those who are in a position to serve as patrons  
of the
> arts to a greater or lesser degree.  Therefore, I would like have the  
ability
> to claim a TAX CREDIT, rather than a deduction from my income, for the  
money
> to choose to give to the arts;  and I would like to have greater  
flexibility
> in the money I can claim for such purposes.  For example, if I buy my  
own copy
> of "Piss Christ," I would certainly like to take a credit on that  
investment,
> just as I would for a contribution of $5000 to the Metropolitan Opera
> (particularly since I shall be able to enjoy the Serrano effort over
> a much longer period of time).
> 

God, would this open a can of worms (and make a real shambles
of the tax code).  Does this mean I should be able to deduct
money for any CDs I buy? How about the kid next store, who wants
to buy the latest Guns and Roses CDs?  How about the guy down
the street who buy an Elvis on black velvet painting?  Where do
you draw the line on what qualifies?

--
Jim Mann                                       
jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com 
Stratus Computer
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer)
Subject: Re: government and the arts
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Dept. of Independence
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 11:43:00 GMT


After wading through this thread, I'm ready for a T-shirt: 

          I SURVIVED
           ">>>|>>"

Anyway, although Roger Lustig correctly points out that
governments have been heavily involved in artistic
efflorescenses in the past, I agree with Chris Brewster and
others who say that the situation is different in a democracy.
It's a basic fact that citizens will turn people out of office
who support government funding of the arts if there is a visible
connection between the funding and art they find repellant, and
this is how things should work. 

The same thing has happened in science, incidentally. Senator
Proxmire sometimes gave his "Golden Fleece" award to research
projects he found objectionable or silly. 

The solution in both art and science is to have the work
in question done with private funding. Democracy =may= lead to
diminished support of the arts, or modest support of mediocre
achievements in the arts, but in the long run, democracy
leads to a vibrant economy, which will result in greater
private sources of funding that can support the adventurous
stuff.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Oboe family (was Re: Cor Angl*)
From: phoogenboom@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:50:20 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <1992Apr13.153115.24234@osf.org>, coren@osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
> In article <1992Apr12.154226.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu>, phoogenboom@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>> > ordinary tenor-bass trombones; 1 contrabass trombone". Trombonists can
>> 
>> Was the rotary valve introduced to the trombone that early to create the
>> tenor/bass?  I would have guessid it was later but I do not really know.
> 
> I have no idea. I'm only quoting (from memory, so possibly slightly
> inaccurately). I do know that there's no distinction between "tenor"
> and "bass" trombones (as there is for the tubas).

Actually there is.  Tenor in B-flat is pitched a fourth above the bass in F. 
Modern trombones now have a valve or two that allows them to play in both
ranges, but still the distinction is usually made, with the difference being in
the size of the bore and the bell and so on.

>> > The "contrabass trombone"
>> > (which he uses sparingly) has a lower range (lower than any
>> > non-Russian bass voice :-)), although not as low as the "contrabass
>> 
>> How low is that?   ;)
> 
> Well, again, my scores are at home and I'm not, but I think it gets
> down around the A below the bass staff.

I seem to recall reference to a contrabass tbn in b-flat which would probably
be playable down to below that A (my speculation).  However, the slide would
have to be VERY long, or crooked.

Peter Hoogenboom
From: elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Theme in Handel and Mozart [and...]
Keywords: elkies
Date: 15 Apr 92 02:53:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Apr14.225323.11108
Organization: Harvard Math Department

In article <1992Apr14.200619.26812@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu>
rickertj@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu.UUCP (John Rickert) writes:

>   In Handel's _Messiah_ the theme in the chorus "And with His stripes
>we are healed" is the same as one of the subjects in the "Kyrie" of the
>Mozart _Requiem_.  Is it known for certain whether Mozart was deliberately
>quoting Handel, or did he just coincidentally use the same theme?

Unless Mozart explicitly said or wrote that he was quoting Handel there
is no way to be sure.  That Mozart knew _Messiah_ is certain --- he even
reorchestrated some of it! --- but that's not enough, because the
E-C-F-G# theme occurs elsewhere too (the A-minor fugue from Bach WTC II,
which Mozart also knew; there's at least one more instance by Buxtehude,
which Bach was presumably familiar with but Mozart probably not), and
four notes are too few to exclude coincidence.

Now find the _Messiah_ quote(s?) in Beethoven's _Missa Solemnis_.  :-)

--Noam D. Elkies (elkies@zariski.harvard.edu)
  Department of Mathematics, Harvard University
From: sasdrf@daedalus.unx.sas.com (Dave Frederick)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Oboe family (was Re: Cor Angl*)
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:21:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: unx.1992Apr8.192109.3962
    <CB.92Apr7110212@tamarack12.timbuk> <1992Apr07.185025.204871@cs.cmu.edu> 
    <1992Apr7.200235.10815@husc3.harvard.edu> 
    <ku4miqINN66i@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> <1992Apr8.132018.7306@osf.org>
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.
Originator: sasdrf@daedalus.unx.sas.com
X-Bytes: 2375

In article <1992Apr8.132018.7306@osf.org>, coren@osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
|> In article <ku4miqINN66i@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>, drijbo@one-iron.Corp.Sun.COM (Jonathan Osser) writes:
|> > As for bass trombones, I've seen a variety of instruments labelled as
|> > bass (or contrabass) trombones so I'm not sure what range to compare with
|> > the voice.

This comparison of instrument ranges to voices is becoming absurd! The
suggestion of these ranges is intended to be relative (to other instru-
ments of the same species), and not intended to map to a human voice.
By the time I finished with youth symphony in my high school days, I
had played _tenor_ trombone parts with ranges from the third G below
middle C (Borodin's Polovetsian Dances) to the second E-flat above
middle C (March to the Scaffolds from Berlioz' Symphonie Fantastique).
Considering these two warhorses are pretty standard repertoire, that
would give a "tenor" instrument a 3.5 octave range, from low bass to
middle soprano. Is it obvious that this instrument plays in the tenor
range? Well, if we consider the median of its range, perhaps, but many
of the more creative orchestrators prefer putting instruments in
extreme ranges to expand their pallette of orchestral color, so even
this definition is meaningless. Theoretically, a bass trombone has the
same or even wider range (due to the additional tubing available through
the additional valve[s]), although the larger mouthpiece and bore size
benefit the low register at the expense of the higher extremes.

Similar claims can be made for any wind or string instruments. All of
these instruments have a wider standard range than a human voice, and
quite often can be heard playing in the range of several voices (this is
not to imply that instruments are superior to the human voice...instru-
ments cannot produce words, for instance). One can simply assume that a
soprano widgethorn has a higher range than a tenor widgethorn (although
the tenor may be playing above the soprano in Henning's Double
Widgethorn Concerto), and leave it at that.

|>
|>
|> > (and while we're at it, if someone invented a viola da caccia, where
|> > would *it* fit in?)
|>
|> Somehow, the idea of a "hunting viola" amuses me greatly.
|>      Robert

Why, violas are ALWAYS hunting ... for the right notes.

Dave Frederick                          sasdrf@unx.sas.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical