HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jet@karazm.math.uh.edu (J Eric Townsend)
Subject: Re: Last Plea: XDM on OpenWindows V3
Organization: UH Dept of Math
	<1992Apr8.091056.4579@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
	<1992Apr14.111159.20737@ra.msstate.edu>
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 18:09:46 GMT

"Cass" == Cass Everitt <cass@arrakis.uucp> writes:

Cass> your xdm. When you run xdm, how do you keep it from logging
Cass> messages to the console? Actually I have two questions. Is there

I run xconsole, ala X11R5's xdm config files.

Cass> any way to escape from xdm in order to run another windowing
Cass> system? I still have some people that want to use sunview, and I
Cass> have to cater to everyone.

Nope, not unless all your users have root.  If you're running OW 3.0,
you shouldn't need SunView per se.

I just tell users that SunView is no longer supported, therefore I'm
not going to run it since I don't have source. (A fib, true, but it
makes things run more smoothly.)

--
J. Eric Townsend - jet@uh.edu - Systems Wrangler, UH Dept of Mathematics
Note! New vox number: (713) 743-3466  '91 CB750, DoD# 0378
     Want to report illegal or corrupt activities by a federal agency?
        Call the Federally-sponsored Whistleblower BBS: 202.225.5527
From: don@doug.med.utah.edu (Don Baune 581-6088 MIRL)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: X11R3 fonts needed
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:14:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: fcom.1992Apr9.201436.2385
Organization: University of Utah, Dept. of Radiology
Originator: don@doug

All,

We have need of  the fonts  fg-13  & fgb-13  for an application
that is x in nature but poorly coded.  (ie it requires these and
only these fonts.)  We are running Openwindows (2&3) along with
X11R5.  Does ANYBODY know how I can get openwindows to either
aliases these specific fonts to something that exists today?

Of baring that I have these fonts in  SNF  and BDF  forms. Can I
somehow convert them and coerce openwindows to use them? My 
understanging is that these fonts existed in X11R3.    

Thanks for any help or ideas,
-don
don@doug.med.utah.edu
From: freedman@bellman.lanl.gov (Keith S. Freedman)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: Re: OpenWindows, tcsh, and arrow keys
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:25:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: newshost.1992Apr8.192530.19520
Reply-To: freedman@bellman.lanl.gov
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory

the arrow keys work with the xterm provided with OW2 and OW3, but not with the 
CMDTOOL or the SHELLTOOL.  You can set up a key map for either of these tools,
but I can't help you there.
---
Keith Freedman
Los Alamos National Laboratory
freedman@ilmen.lanl.gov
From: tannenba@engr.wisc.edu (Todd Tannenbaum)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: XDM for OW3 & cmdtool
Keywords: xdm openwin3 cmdtool
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:29:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Apr16.162913.25489
Organization: College of Engineering, Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison
Originator: tannenba@erb1.engr.wisc.edu


geeez, xdm for OW3 with the xnews server is a pain!!!

When using xdm shipped with OW3, does anyone know how
to keep cmdtool from hogging as much CPU time as
it can get?  If I open any cmdtools in Xsession (or
in openwin-init called from Xsession), "ps -auxr"
shows the cmdtool using all available CPU cycles!

I know of a version of xdm that is hacked to work better
with OW3.  The hacks were done by a guy at Sun.  You
can get this from anon FTP to doug.cae.wisc.edu.  The
file is pub/sunsparcs/xdm.new/xdm_OWV3.tar.Z.
This version of xdm does not have this problem, but
the author's bug-list also scares me....

Anyway, the FAQ for this group mentions something about
using /usr/etc/setsid to clear up the problem.  It
did not do anything for me.  Maybe I misunderstand
how the setsid is supposed to be used here....

Anyone using the xdm from OW3?  Do you have this 
problem (maybe you've never even noticed!)??

Thanks, I'm counting on USENET power!




-- 
Todd Tannenbaum, Network Manager   | e-mail: tannenba@engr.wisc.edu
Computer Aided Engineering Center  | Voice Ph: (608) 262-3118
University of Wisconsin-Madison    | Fax Ph: (608) 262-6707
Xref: sparky comp.windows.open-look:2169 alt.toolkits.xview:432
From: rob.e.allan@hydro.on.ca
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look,alt.toolkits.xview
Subject: getting XWarpPointer to work under olvwm & xview
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:44:33 GMT
Reply-To: rob.e.allan@hydro.on.ca
Organization: Ontario Hydro

I have an app which I would like to give focus when it comes
up. It uses many different windows and popups, so I am uncomfortable
using WIN_GRAB_ALL_INPUT because if the window with input is
"somehow" killed, the user loses his pointer. Also, I would like
to give the user the ability to work on something else while my
app is running. Anyways, I am trying to use XWarpPointer to
warp the pointer to the window which requires focus. The user can
then start typing into the window without having to drag the pointer
over him/herself. And if the user wants to do something else, s/he
can just move the pointer to another window.

The problem is that I can't get XWarpPointer to work under Xview.
Can anyone out there send me a working example? I have made many
different attempts and nothing seems to happen. I'm sure I must
be missing something trivial but I can't find it. So anyone who
has got it working, could you please email me an example.
Thanks for your attention.

BTW, I am using Xview 2 and devguide 1.1 under OW 2.0


rob allan	email: rob.e.allan@hydro.on.ca
From: Richard.Elling@eng.auburn.edu (Richard Elling)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: name_finder 1.1
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:08:39 GMT

Announcing name_finder 1.1, the free replacement for the missing
Mailtool-V3 name finder.  This is an XView program which helps
users lookup electronic mail addresses (ok, really a glorified
XView variation on finger... but *much* faster :-)

name_finder also includes support for local "listserv" mail lists
based on the listserv robot used at UCSD.  Users can examine lists
and [un]subscribe to them with the click of a button.

This is a preliminary version fresh out of an extensive 1 week
Beta test period.  There is already a growing list of new goodies
to add.  It is written in C++ targeted for SunOS 4.1.1, OpenWindows
version 3.0, and SunC++ 2.1.  The release includes source code as
well as a precompiled version (SPARC, SunOS 4.1.1, OWV3) for those
sites which don't have a C++ compiler handy.

As usual, all feedback is appreciated.

FTP info:
	server:	ftp.eng.auburn.edu [131.204.10.91]
	file:	/pub/name_finder.tar.Z
	size:	119363 bytes

Enjoy,
  -- richard

 Richard Elling                           Manager of Network Support
 Auburn University                        Engineering Administration
 richard.elling@eng.auburn.edu   KB4HB [44.100.0.72]   (205)844-2280
 rm -r *... Homey don't think so!
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Distribution: world
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 12:21:04 EDT
From: fgreco@fis1026.shearson.com (Frank Greco)
Subject: Re: Is there a C++ API to ToolTalk?

> In article <1992Apr4.051225.5093@sfc.sony.com> berger@sfc.sony.com
> (Bob Berger) writes:
> 
> 'O' is only one-third of DOE.  ;) You don't need ToolTalk to play with
> objects; for that you can use any handy OO language.  The problem with
> those objects is that they aren't persistent, and they all have to
> live inside the same address space, on the same machine.  ToolTalk
> objects are persistent and distributed, just as DOE objects will be.

	First the most important question:  Who in marketing thought up
	the acronym "DOE"?  That rivals HP's "New Wave" moniker in
	marketing innovation.    ;>

	... hmmmm... aren't HP and Sun working together these days?  ;>

> If you're familiar with the OMG CORBA spec, then you can think of
> ToolTalk object messaging like dynamic method invocation on OMG
> objects.  In both forms of messaging, you invoke an object's method by
> assembling and sending a message, instead of (e.g.) by using a "->"
> operator on an object reference.

	But wouldn't it be nice if you built a C++ object that
	understood that the "->" operator meant "send a ToolTalk or OMG
	msg to another object on the net" (i.e., C++ Object A invokes a
	member function in Object B on a different host)?

	A direct C++ interface to TT would be real nice...

	Frank G.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
From: rublee@liebnitz.ssd.kodak.com (Darrell Rublee)
Subject: Re: Current version of devguide?
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 11:47:16 GMT

In article <3225@richsun.cpg.trs.reuter.com> marke@cpg.trs.reuter.com (Mark Ellis) writes:
>What is the current release version of devguide?  If current version is
>greater than 1.1, any comments on what has changed since 1.1?
>
>Thanks.
>--
>Mark Ellis - Sr. Staff Engineer
>Reuters, 1400 Kensington Rd., Oak Brook, IL  60521
>marke@trs.reuter.com
>uunet!richsun!marke

The current version of DevGuide is 3.0, I believe.  It is much better than
version 1.1 from a bug and functionality standpoint.  Drag/Drop is a great
added feature of version 3.0.  One item not supportetd is the selection 
fonts.
From: hsteve@hydra.unm.edu
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: Re: help on xv_create
Date: 7 Apr 92 17:19:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.2#qj6h=
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque


> Hi, I am currently writing a xv based application to display multiple
> user interfaces to different servers and somehow xv is not letting me
> doing it.  Here is a sample of my code, if anyone has done this please
> help!!! (I have spent too much time and not getting anywhere!! :-(.)
[deleted]

<	Steve,
<
<	Why don't you just use xmx ?
<
<	Frank G.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

  Thanks Frank for replied.   Can you tell me what's xmx?  I could not
  e-mail to you, so this will be the only way that I can reply to your
  mail message.
--
    _---_     Steve  
   / o o \    hsteve@hydra.unm.edu, hsteve@carina.unm.edu
  | \___/ |   
              Just say NO to VMS!!
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look,comp.sys.sun.apps,comp.sys.sun.admin
From: puglia@cucbs.chem.columbia.edu (Paul Puglia)
Subject: Re: Last Plea: XDM on OpenWindows V3
Organization: Center for Biomolecular Simulation
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 21:58:32 GMT


If you check the man page for XDM, you will see that the authors
of the program state that XDM does not live well with other windowing
systems.  After trying to work around this I concur.
From: robert@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Robert Meunier)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: Re: PANEL_MESSAGE update problem
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:25:26 GMT
Reply-To: robert@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
Organization: Hydro-Quebec (IREQ)

In article 702771489@tupelo.cs.duke.edu, mtn@duke.cs.duke.edu (Michael T. Naseef) writes:
>Well, this is how I understand it to be.  Maybe some more-enlightened
>individual would care to expound further.  Anyway, it seems to me
>that doing the XFlush is not a good enough answer.  Especially if the
>processing your application is doing will take a long time, or (I know,
>nobody here would ever have this problem) could hang 8^0.
>

	This is only part of the solution. The best way is to set a timer
with callback to the processing function which do periodically a
notify_dispatch() call. This way, any default function can be handle
like frame menu. You can even set a PANEL_BUTTON which can interrupt
the process in progress when push.
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
From: ebx@scs.carleton.ca (edmond bo xiao)
Subject: Timeout in xview3 dnd package.
Reply-To: ebx@scs.carleton.ca
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 04:04:16 GMT


Anybody out there knows how to specify the DND_TIMEOUT_VALUE in
a dnd operarion? In seconds or miliseconds or whatever?

Thank you for attention.

edmond
From: ccav27@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ( Y.Chen)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: Re: Panel list item glyph color
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:03:07 GMT
Organization: Strathclyde University

In article <289@esun_server40.gdc.com>, rattinge@gdc.com (John Rattinger) writes:
|> I'm having trouble trying to figure out how to create a glyph (server image)
|> with color and assign it to panel list item. I am able insert a panel list item
|> with a glyph in it, but the glyph is not in color. No matter what i try to do, 
|> the glyph is black and white - except when i set PANEL_ITEM_COLOR durring the
|> insert, but that changes the color of all list items to the same color. I
|> need to have different colors in different list items.
|> 
|> An example of what I'm trying to do can be seen by running the program 
|> "binder" that resides in the directory - /vol/openwin3/bin (at least on 
|> my system).
|> 
|> any information or the source for the binder program would be highly 
|> appreciated. Post or email would be fine.
|> 
|> Thanks
|> John
|> 
|> email - rattinge@gdc.com


You need to create pixmap of your image ( which is color image because pixmap
has depth), and then use it for your panel list glyph. If you have devguide
installed, see the source code in $GUIDEHOME/share/src/libguidexv/gcc.c.
That defines the color chooser which has a panel list, each item has a color
glyph and a string.




Charles
From: neve@ursp04.csb (Leif Neve, CEB)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: X Terminals Running olwm
Keywords: X terminals, olwm, olvwm
Date: 14 Apr 92 15:28:56 GMT
Reply-To: neve@ursp04.csb
Organization: National Library of Medicine

Does anyone know of any vendors selling X terminals which run olwm or olvwm locally?

For example, NCD provides software for their X terminals that includes a  locally running  Motif
window manager.  This reduces the network traffic, enhances response time, and so on.  Is there an 
offering comparable in the Open Look world?

--Leif Neve
neve@nlm.nih.gov
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
From: rublee@ssd.kodak.com (Darrell Rublee)
Subject: PANEL_MESSAGE update problem
Originator: rublee@liebnitz
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 13:39:41 GMT

Article 4427 of comp.windows.open-look:
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Re: PANEL_MESSAGE update problem
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1992 23:37:01 GMT

>>...the item, by default, gets repainted each time xv_set is called on it.

>Not on my machine.  I had the same problem the original poster did, that is why
>I used the XFlush.  I set the message and then do exabyte tape IO, which takes
>forever, and the message didn't appear until the IO was done.
>
>--Chris

Not  on my machine either.  I update a PANEL_LABEL_STRING of a PANEL_MESSAGE
using xv_set just before I am doing some heavy SCSI communications.  
OpenWindows does not seem to be updating the screen immediately after doing
an xv_set.  Therefore, my SCSI communications is kicking in before the 
screen is being updated by OpenWindows.  Doing an XFlush after the xv_set
seems to be a decent workaround.

Chris, thanks for your help.

Darrell Rublee
Eastman Kodak Co.
From: nazgul@alphalpha.com (Kee Hinckley)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: Re: Pushpin patented?
Date: 6 Apr 92 03:30:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: alphalph.1992Apr6.033023.27782
Organization: none

In article <hiojhhu@openlook.Unify.Com> uunet!att!jolt!att.com!lih writes:
>However, pushpins can also apply to a popup window so that after you
>hit Apply (or OK in Macintosh parlance) the window stays up and you
>can keep on using it.  This proves useful in a lot of applications,
>and I don't believe that the Mac has a standard way of doing this.
Sure, it's called Apply - typically used in text style dialogs and
other things which you may want to reuse.
-- 
Alfalfa Software, Inc.          |       Poste:  The EMail for Unix
nazgul@alfalfa.com              |       Send Anything... Anywhere
617/497-2922                    |       info@alfalfa.com

I'm not sure which upsets me more: that people are so unwilling to accept
responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate
everyone else's.
Xref: sparky comp.windows.open-look:2188 comp.sys.sun.apps:738 comp.sys.sun.admin:2486
From: cass@arrakis.uucp (Cass Everitt)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look,comp.sys.sun.apps,comp.sys.sun.admin
Subject: Re: Last Plea: XDM on OpenWindows V3
Date: 14 Apr 92 11:11:59 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. Mississippi State University

I have a quick question if you guys are having no trouble with your
xdm. When you run xdm, how do you keep it from logging messages to the
console? Actually I have two questions. Is there any way to escape from
xdm in order to run another windowing system? I still have some people
that want to use sunview, and I have to cater to everyone.

-- 
			Cass.Everitt@EE.MsState.Edu
============================================================================== 
      You know, boxing is sort of like ballet, exept there's no music, no
                choreography, and the dancers hit each other.
From: doehr@magellan.den.mmc.com (Brett B. Doehr)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: Re: CLIPS by NASA
Date: 10 Apr 92 20:08:18 GMT
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics Group

In article <hmej1j3@openlook.Unify.Com>, darin@kaman.com (Darin S. Lory) writes:
|> 
|> I was wondering if anyone in the X world heard of CLIPS that is
|> distributed by NASA.  It is supposed to me an Object-Oriented environment
|> to develop X windows tools via Lisp, C++, or another oop language.
|> 
|> If someone could straighten me out out the information about the product,
|> it would be greatly appreciated.

Well, I think you got the wrong impression from someone.  CLIPS is not an
interface developer like TAE+ and similar products.  It is a production
system (like OPS-83, according to folks I've talked to who use it) for 
things like developing rule-based expert systems.  I'm pretty sure it 
is C-based and has absolutely no graphical component associated with it.  
It _is_ distributed by the COSMIC office for NASA, but it not implemented 
in Lisp or C++ and has nothing to do with X window system development.

--Brett.

============================================================|
Brett B. Doehr           Martin Marietta Astronautics Group |
Voice: +1-303-977-1504   P.O. Box 179  Denver, CO 80201 USA |
Fax:   +1-303-977-1530          Internet: doehr@den.mmc.com |
============================================================|
From: kwaldman@bbn.com
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: Sunview -> Open-look ?
Date: 14 Apr 1992 16:48:56 GMT
Organization: bbn
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.1.7.117

 	I have a number of Sunview applications that I would like to port
over to Open-Look.  Is there an easy quick and dirty way to do this?
I know utimately I'll have to change them to a client-server model, but
would like to be able to use them in openlook while I am changing them over.

	Thanks in advance
	Karl

	kwaldman@bbn.com
Newsgroups: bnr.unixnews,comp.windows.open-look
From: webster@bcars546.bnr.ca (Brent Webster)
Subject: NEEDED: simple dialog window
Reply-To: webster@bcars546
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 12:54:41 GMT

I wrote a simple Cshell script to peruse a dropbox directory and
scan for new files.  If new files are detected I want a simple
dialog box to pop up with a message in it.  Right now I'm using
cmdtool with the -I option but that leaves the command shell open.

Because I've cross-posted this request, I'll also note that this
dialog box must run under OpenWindows2.0.

*************************************************************
Brent Webster  (613) 763-4962 * 
                              *  CoDesign tools and Modelling
Bell-Northern Research Ltd    *
P.O. Box 3511, Station C      *
Dept 9R12, MS103              *  E-mail:
OTTAWA, Ont, Canada           *   webster@bnr.ca  (InterNet)
K1Y 4H7                       *   webster@bnr.ca.bitnet
*************************************************************
#include <std.disclaimer>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
From: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu (Chris Webster)
Subject: Font types
Reply-To: chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu
Organization: Research Aviation Facility, NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 14:50:30 GMT


I was just reading the FAQ and they list Type 1 & F3 fonts, etc.  Can someone either
tell or direct me to information about the various types of fonts, and what supports
the various types.

--Chris
From: dna@math.psu.edu (Douglas N. Arnold)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
Subject: Re: X Terminals Running olwm
Date: 15 Apr 92 04:02:45 GMT
Reply-To: dna@math.psu.edu
Organization: Dept. of Mathematics, Penn State University

>>  Does anyone know of any vendors selling X terminals which run
>>  olwm or olvwm locally?

HDS (Human Designed Systems) sells a line of X-terminals that include
both OpenLook and Motif window managers.  The former is olwm not
olvwm.  We just today got an HDS 16c+ in to evaluate and it seems to be
very nice indeed.

We reach HDS at (215) 277-8300.
---
Douglas N. Arnold                         dna@math.psu.edu
Dept. of Mathematics, Penn State Univ.    (814) 865-0246
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
From: 098802@adpdp2.lanl.gov (098802)
Subject: How can I display OpenLook applications from .login?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory, EMVAX
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 22:37:00 GMT

Please excuse a re-tooled VAX programmer if this is a stupid question.

On a VAX, I can put into the login.com file (equivalent to .login) a series
of commands which will display an X application on a remote
workstation. (This is useful if I want to simply log into an account on some
machine and have X applications magically appear on my workstation.)

Is there any way I can do this from the .login file?
Xref: sparky comp.windows.open-look:2209 comp.windows.misc:774
From: abraham@iesd.auc.dk (Per Abrahamsen)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look,comp.windows.misc
Subject: Re: Pushpin patented?
Date: 15 Apr 92 21:03:43 GMT
	<ABRAHAM.92Apr8112218@loke.iesd.auc.dk>
	<1992Apr14.034032.7115@alphalpha.com>
Followup-To: comp.windows.misc
Organization: HUGIN Expert A/S


>>>>> On 14 Apr 92 03:40:32 GMT, nazgul@alphalpha.com (Kee Hinckley) said:

Kee> However OL is certainly not unique in having multiple toolkits:

Kee> 		Motif		Open Look
[...]
Kee> OLIT				X
(should get Motif GUI support soon)

[...]
Kee> Solbourne's OI	X		X

No, but try asking e.g. Solbourne what they feel about playing catch up
to OSF/Motif with regard to the Motif GUI, compared to being ahead of
the Sun toolkits in some areas with regard to OPEN LOOK compliance.

The Motif GUI seems merely to be a description of how the current version of
OSF/Motif looks and feels.

[ Followup set to comp.windows.misc ]
Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
From: mrapple@quack.sac.ca.us (Nick Sayer)
Subject: _wmShellWidgetClass considered exasperating
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
Date: 11 Apr 1992 03:57:45 UTC

I have just installed SunOS 4.1.2 and openwindows 3 on my machine.
Programs that used to compile just fine with

cc *.o -lXt -lXmu -lXext -lX11 -lm

(specifically xperfmon) now bitch and moan about not being able
to find _wmShellWidgetClass or _wmapplicationWidgetClass. Using
nm on the contents of /usr/openwin/lib reveal these items
defined only in lib[something]_p.a. However, linking with those
results in the undefined "mcount".

What's even more bizarre is that the binary WORKS (though it requires
explicit font specification)!

*FLAME ON*

Does it hurt Sun's pride or something just to compile the straight MIT
source without throwing in stupid nonsense like this?! It's bad enough
that the damn "xnews" abortion uses half again as much memory to
no gain (other than some slow, uninteresting demos), but now they've
hosed the libraries as well?!

*FLAME OFF*

-- 
Nick Sayer <mrapple@quack.sac.ca.us> | "Squeak! Squeak! Squeak, I
N6QQQ @ N0ARY.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA       | tell you! Squeak!"
37 19 49 N / 121 57 36 W             | 
+1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'   |           -- Ren