HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: emev02@castle.ed.ac.uk (H Oral)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: WHy muslims are allowed to kep four wives a
Date: 22 Nov 92 01:54:43 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1dsa5vINNs45@life.ai.mit.edu> exuasqa@exu.ericsson.se writes:
>First, we have to agree that Adultary is not accepted, should not be permitted
>or practiced.
>
>If we do so (and this is one of the answers), then how could I women marry more
>than one man, and for example the all want to have kids,
>Who is the father of the kid, how will take care of the wife during her pregnan
cy(sp!)
>and suppose they all have the same blood type or what ever, how do make sure th
at
>those tests used to identify the father are 100% correct, since there is no pla
ce
>for a 0.0000..1 mistake.   At least, this is my understanding ......


To add a few more reasons, as you know once woman gets pregnant, her performance
 
falls down in many ways, since her body starts to accomodate two beings, rather 
than
only herself.  Therefore the father of the child may bear with this phenomenon, 
since
after all it is his baby.  However, for the other parties the case is not the sa
me.

Allah(SWT) is the Most Wise.  Therefore we can not truly know everything behind
His Divine Will.  However we can try to think and reflect as we are asked in the
Holy Qur'an.

Hamid
From: clifton9220@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: GOD'S HOLINESS!!!
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:21:07 GMT
Organization: University of Northern Iowa


GOD IS HOLY.  GOD IS AWESOME.  GOD IS LOVING.  GOD IS JUST.  THESE STATEMENTS
DO NOT DEPEND ON THE BLESSINGS HE GIVES US.  OUR ARGUEMENTS MUST SEEM REALLY
PETTY TO HIM.

KEN.
From: arif@sooty.bt.co.uk (Arif )
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Inheritance
Date: 15 Nov 1992 22:37 PDT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
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Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------

For those with knowledge, could you please interpret and explain the following
(translated) passages from the Quran:


In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

Allah enjoins you concerning your children: The male
shall have the equal of the portion of two females; then if they
are more than two females, they shall have two-thirds of what
the deceased has left, and if there is one, she shall have the half;
and as for his parents, each of them shall have the sixth of what
he has left if he has a child, but if he has no child and (only) his
two parents inherit him, then his mother shall have the third; but
if he has brothers, then his mother shall have the sixth after (the
payment of) a bequest he may have bequeathed or a debt; your
parents and your children, you know not which of them is the
nearer to you in usefulness; this is an ordinance from Allah:
Surely Allah is Knowing, Wise.

And you shall have half of what your wives leave if they
have no child, but if they have a child, then you shall have a
fourth of what they leave after (payment of) any bequest they
may have bequeathed or a debt; and they shall have the fourth of
what you leave if you have no child, but if you have a child then
they shall have the eighth of what you leave after (payment of) a
bequest you may have bequeathed or a debt; and if a man or a
woman leaves property to be inherited by neither parents nor
offspring, and he (or she) has a brother or a sister, then each of
them two shall have the sixth, but if they are more than that,
they shall be sharers in the third after (payment of) any bequest
that may have been bequeathed or a debt that does not harm
(others); this is an ordinance from Allah: and Allah is Knowing,
Forbearing.
From: ulowell!usl.edu!zxs6373@samsung.com (Siddiqui Zafar)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: MONITOR: Islam and Science: soc.culture.indian
Date: 19 Nov 1992 00:25:16 GMT
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Reply-To: ulowell!usl.edu!zxs6373@samsung.com (Siddiqui Zafar)
NNTP-Posting-Host: spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Originator: gwydion@spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu

Monitored message follows:

__________________________________________________________________________
From rouge!tulane!darwin.sura.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!giga!prabhak Tue Nov 17 14:54:11 CST 1992
Article: 82403 of soc.culture.indian
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: prabhak@giga.cs.umn.edu (Satya Prabhakar)
Subject: Re: Islam and Science (an explanation)
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 12:15:56 GMT

(KHAN,RAHEEL) writes:
>
>At the heart of the debate is a deeper issue.  The issue infact is of man's
>rebellion against his Creator, of his concieted proclamation of sufficiency and
>independence from God.  
>
I recently had a very long discussion with a friend of mine who happens
to be a muslim. 

The following were some of the questions I had. I would like
to know what you think of them.

1. Does Islam require its followers to suspend their thinking and
   accept the scripture as the word of God, not to be explained
   nor questioned, but simply adhered to?

2. If 1 is true, then it appears to me that Muslims must not
   engage in any scientific dialectic on Islam, but simply say,
   "It is the word of God. Period." Which, it appears to me, is
   fine! Any discussion of Islam will then be counterproductive
   to the premise.

   Further, if Islam states that anyone who questions the said
   provisions and fails to adhere to them cannot be a true
   Muslim, then many perahps would not qualify. Is this a fact?
   (I am stating this because I heard from many people that
   Islam prohibits acceptance or disbursal of interest on a
   loan or investment. Which means that many in the Western world
   will not qualify. Is this true!)

3. However, if Islam does allow analysis of Quran from a rational
   (which might change from person to person) perspective, it 
   should then allow for the possibility that some may conclude
   that a few provisions or edicts of Islam have no scientific
   basis and hence decide not to follow them and *still* be
   Muslims. Then, it necessarily follows, different people will
   have different views on what they think is Islam and this
   implies that there cannot be an absolute interpretation of
   the Word. Is this correct?

Hping to hear,

Satya Prabhakar
From: f43703a@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp (SUPRATIC GUPTA)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: [None given] Conversion out of Islam?
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:59:21 GMT


Can any one tell me where it is writen in Quran that a 
Muslim cannot convert to other religion? Can any one
enlighten me why (Some wrote so) that all muslims should
kill a person who has come in and out of Islam 3 times?
Is it written in Quran?

How do a person become Islamic????

If your son doesnot say that he is your son, then does
it mean that he not your son. Just because some one
doesnot beleave that Mohamad is a Prophet, still follow
every thing he said is a non-muslim. I know that this is
written so in Quran (Obviously because Mohamad conved it)
Can just one sentence of mouth be make so different to
God. Do you really beleave that God will send me to hell
just Because I said that I don't care to know if Mohamad is
a prophet or not. Please note that I had never said Mohamad
is not a Prophet. I said I don't care. But I fully respect
him. I follow all his words. What a funny thing. Still I
am not a muslim. 

How do any one really convert to a MUSLIM. Just by words.
Hold a sword, make him say that he believes so. Then again
hold a sword to say the reverse. So he has converted 3 times.
Then Kill him???????

With regards
SUPRATIC GUPTA
From: ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: RE: SOC.RELIGION."ISLAM".AHMADIA
Date: 16 Nov 1992 12:59 PDT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: romeo.caltech.edu
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    




In article <20OCT199213235889@romeo.caltech.edu> dabbous@pax.inria.fr (Walid Dabbous) writes:

   In article <1992Oct19.091148@IASTATE.EDU>, jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan) writes:
   |> 
   |> The point is that "Muslims" do not have a copyright on the words ISLAM or
   |> MUSLIM. If the Ahmadis claim to be muslim or call themselves "muslims" other
   |> "muslims" have no locus standi in the matter perse. You sure have the right
   |> to not accept that claim but there's no legal binding, whether you accept them
   |> as muslims or not, against anyone calling his/her faith ISLAM and calling 
   |> themselves MUSLIMS. 
   |> 


   This is not true, Muslim Ulema Have wrote books containing the 
   categories of Kufr or Ridda 
   see: 
[...]

   Among the kufr beleifs there is the fact to deny the Qur'an:
   any one who beleives that there will be a prophet after
   Muhammad (which wasn't a prophet before him) is a kafir.

I heard from a Shiite "Muslim" who is traditionally Jaafaree, but not
a believer at all, that the problem of seeing the last Prophet not the
last (as the Zaydees do, for instance) comes from a different reading:
"Khaateme-n Nebiyyeen" could be understood in Arabic, according to his
words, as "the last" or "the seal" of the prophets, where the latter
does not necessarily mean that he is the last (Zaydees believe that
the prophets are enumerated "modulo 7": the prophet is both Imaam and
Prophet. Then came six Imaams, the seventh is again incorporating both
attributes). Does anybody know more about this reading of Khaatem?
--
_______  __ __________________________________________________ _ __________________
   /|   |    	A. Ekrem SABAN	         / 	Technische Universitat Wien
  /_|_  |_  ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at /Inst.f.Techn.Informatik, VLSI-Design
 /  |     | "Nu ninda-a ezateni,  /Adr: 1040 Wien, Treitlstr. 3/2, Fax:(43-1)569697  
/   |__ __|  vadar ma ekuteni"   /Tel:(43-1)58801/8147, /3384 (Mo.17-19 CET)
From: <khan@twg.COM>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Quran and immortality
Date: 20 Nov 1992 21:27:57 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
Reply-To: <khan@twg.COM>
NNTP-Posting-Host: wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Originator: gwydion@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In <1eel28INN135@life.ai.mit.edu> gt0009b@prism.gatech.edu (rahim) writes:



>I want to know what references the Quran makes to the immortality
>of human beings?  Exact verses will be much appreciated.

There are references to the opposite, and there are many of them, for
example:

21:35
" Every soul shall taste of death, and We try you with evil and good for 
a testing, then to Us you shall be returned."

55:26
" All that (dwells) upon it (the earth) is perishing. "

>rahim
>-- 
>"We do not mourn the loss of those who die fulfilling their destinies."
>                                                  -The Forestmaster
>                                        _Dragons of Autumn Twilight_

Ahmed I El-Habbash
From: murtza@andromeda.rutgers.edu (SANDMAN)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: QUESTION ?
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:10:57 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


	[Moderator's note: 'guna' means sin in english]

I WAS WONDERING IF SOMEONE COULD HELP ME WITH THIS QUESTION.

IF YOU SHAVE YOUR BEARD DO YOU GET 'GUNA' FOR THAT ?

I'LL BE WATING FOR AN ANSWER.

KHUDA HAFIZ

SHAMOUN MURTZA

-- 
*DEATH TO THE 'DUSHAMNS' OF PAKISTAN		* SHAMOUN MURZTA              *
*WHO SAYS THAT I AIN'T RIGHT . . . .		* RUTGERS UNIVERSITY	      *
*LIFE IS FOR MY OWN TO LIVE MY OWN WAY		* PH: (201) 997-2685          *
*				-METALLICA     	* PAKISTAN ZINDABAD.	      *
From: jhardono@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Jumahadi is my first name)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Islam is the universal and perfect religion
Date: 19 Nov 1992 00:52:11 GMT
Organization: Indiana University
Reply-To: jhardono@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Jumahadi is my first name)
NNTP-Posting-Host: spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Originator: gwydion@spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu

Dear my brothers and sisters,
	Islam is the religion that covers all aspects of human life.
From aspect of economics, politics to sciences.  Islam is the
continuous religion that brings the same message since Prophet Adam
peace upon him. The message is to worship Allah, the only one god who
creates everything in this whole universal.  Islam means peace but
the real meaning is " submit and surrender to Allah".  Allah is the
arabic word means the only one god. As a muslim, he/she must follow
the order from Allah through His Messengers and the Holy Books. 
The last messenger and the last prophet is Prophet Muhammad Peace upon
him. The last Holy Book is Koran. There will be no messenger after him.
	Islam is not against science. If we read Koran carefully and
thoroughly the verses, we can find many things that we can relate to
science such as algriculture, sociology and etc.

.. to be continued..
From: rached@blanc.eng.ohio-state.edu (rached)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: MONITOR: soc.culture.arabic
Date: 22 Nov 92 01:38:44 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering

Assalamu Alaykum

Is there somebody with enough time and knowledge to respond to the
allegations made in this article ?
The author alleges that the Islamic Khilafah was present for a "breif"
amount of time and that religion in general does not unite people.

rached
----------------------------Monitored Article--------------------------
Article: 7865 of soc.culture.arabic
From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Re: Arab  U N I T Y
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 01:52:28 GMT


I find an irony that people in the 21st century still think that religion will
solve a human problem such as Arab unity. During Islam there was no Arabs, there
was an Islamic empire that incorporated the present Arabic states, Turkey, Iran,
and many other places. Those people were united for a breif time in history
due to the political nature of the empire that had the goal to spread
the word of God through the Qu'ran.

There is ample historical evidence to show that religions alone will not unify
people. Yet some people continue to harp on this very issue. If God has 
humiliated the Arabs or Muslims, how come he does not send some one like
Mohammad to resurect the population from its misery?.

The problem is that people fail to recognise that Islam and all other religions
have failed because they no longer serve the same purpose. Religions were
meant to be a way for explaining nature, instead, they have become a race to
reach the heavens. In the process the Arabs have lost every thing.

The most practical solution toward the Arabic problems in my opinion is not
through Islam, rather, to use the Arabic League. The Arabic League is even older
than the U.N., but not used effectively. Mixing the entire Arabic people under
religious beleifs or a centralised political entity will only lead to more
failures. Witness the down fall of the Soviet empire, I would contend that
the people on this network cannot even agree on the Capital for such a political
or religious driven union.

The best assests the Arabic people have is the language, culture, and religious
beleifs. Those can be used to build a political, economic, and military
co-oporation by strengthining the charter of the Arabic League and to give it a
braoder responsibility. This is far easier than lumping every one into a 
geographic pool that requires surrmounting many obstacle internal and external
to the Arabs. 

I am at a loss to think that going back in time will lead to salvation.

A.Faris
From: mvwjf@mvgpf.att.com (William J Fallon)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Basic Info On Islam
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:40:57 GMT
Organization: AT&T


In article <28530@life.ai.mit.edu> mvwjf@mvgpf.att.com (William J Fallon) writes:
>
   
Let's try again and see if we can get my message in the posting.
   
I would like some basic information on Islam, perhaps a book
which I might find in most book stores or someplace I can write to to
get a such a book or if there is a FAQ posting available for this board
could some one point me to it or e-mail it to me.
  
Thanks for any info.
From: esulf@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr P Hussain)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: QU'RAN & SCIENCE
Date: 15 Nov 1992 22:29 PDT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: romeo.caltech.edu
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    


a week or so ago i read a rather interesting article on how science
has always proven the holy book to be correct
i would appreciate it if someone could post this message either directly
to me or to this newsgroup again

	Thanks

	Paz
From: mughal@iago.caltech.edu (ASIM M MUGHAL)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Soc.Religion.Islam: Moderator positions open
Date: 22 Nov 1992 02:16 PDT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: iago.caltech.edu
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    


ASMK!

	  In my previous message you may have noticed there are now 
three active moderators, down from four. Moderator Dr. Hanan Lutfiyya 
has moved on to a teaching position and will not be able to participate
in SRI. It has been a pleasure & a rewarding experience to work with her 
and we wish her the best. 

	 This has opened up yet another moderator position. We will like
to encourage readers to think about applying for them. A fair knowledge
of Islam, participation in SRI, experience with posting articles will be 
preferred. 

	 These positions are open irrespective of one's religious 
affiliations, race, gender or country of origin.

Listing of Moderators:

       *Moderator-1: Asim Mughal
	Moderator-2: Dr. Salman Azhar
	Moderator-3: Basalat Ali Raja
	Moderator-4:   <open>
	Moderator-5:   <open>


	Please send all correspondence & queries to:

		mughal@romeo.caltech.edu 

	We hope to announce new moderators by Dec 1, '92,inshallah.
	

Wassalam,

=Asim Mughal
*Coordinator,
 Soc.Religion.Islam
From: rached@taylor.eng.ohio-state.edu (rached)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: MONITOR: soc.culture.arabic
Date: 18 Nov 1992 23:50:36 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering
Reply-To: rached@taylor.eng.ohio-state.edu (rached)
NNTP-Posting-Host: spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu
Originator: gwydion@spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu

Article: 7840 of soc.culture.arabic
From: ddsokol@unix.amherst.edu (D. DANIEL SOKOL)
Subject: Re: ARAB UNITY

<Original Article Deleted by Monitor>

How should Christian Lebanese feel about Islamic Unity where Christians will
undoubtedly be discriminated against and persecuted for their religious 
beliefs.
Danny Sokol-Amherst Colleg
From: afadel@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ayman Fadel)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Good Fiqh Book in English
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:00:09 GMT
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.

salam

_~umdat as-saalik fii ~iddat an-naasik_ by Ahmad
Ibn an-Naqiib al-Misri.  Text plus translation into
English by Nuuh Ha Miim Keller.  Available from

Modern Printing Press
Dubai-U.A.E.
Tel 245655 P.o. Box 1042
Fax 246308

This is a book of Shafi~i fiqh.  The editor has also
included some excerpts from others' works concerning
questions such as the permissibility of taqliid 
(imitation) by Ramadaan Sa~iid Al-buuti and the
classification of knowledge into obligatory,
recommended, neither blameworthy nor praiseworthy,
blameworthy and forbidden.   The latter is
by al-imam an-nawawi.

salaam
ayman
From: gz@sei.cmu.edu (Gregory Zelesnik)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Mixed Religious Marriages
Date: 23 Nov 92 20:33:11 GMT
Organization: Software Engineering Institute



Greetings,

I was hoping that someone could help me.  If you could e-mail me a response,
I would most sincerely appreciate your help.  Please forgive me if you've seen
this question before.  I am new to your newsgroup and have not read
any posts dealing with this subject.

The Catholic religion allows a Catholic person to marry a non-Christian.
Therefore, theoretically, the Catholic church would permit the marriage of
a Muslim and a Catholic.

What does the Koran say about such marriages?  Does your Faith allow a Muslim
to marry a Catholic?  

Thank you for any help you can give me.

Gregory Zelesnik                  Software Engineering Institute
gz@sei.cmu.edu                    Carnegie Mellon University
(412) 268 7797                    Pittsburgh, PA   15213
				  U.S.A.
Gregory Zelesnik                  Software Engineering Institute
gz@sei.cmu.edu                    Carnegie Mellon University
(412) 268 7797                    Pittsburgh, PA   15213
				  U.S.A.
From: ahh@shoshin.Corp.Sun.COM (Aslam Haswarey)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re:  Qur'an, Bible and crucifixion
Date: 21 Nov 92 21:36:47 GMT
Reply-To: ahh@shoshin.Corp.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA

In article 1eep7qINN3k7@life.ai.mit.edu, Babak Mohajerin <B.MOHAJERIN@qut.edu.au> ()
 writes:


**2) On the other hand there are other scholars who have pictured the 
**   event in accordance with the Bible:
**
**   This is unlikely, because it is common sense that souls can not be
**    crucified and I do not think that anyone claimed to have crucified
**   Jesus' (PBUH) soul.
**
*Well I can not agree most. However, this is the path that some of the
*scholars have taken to harmonise the account and you may refer your
*comments to them. By the way, Mulla Mohsen Fayz Kashani is one of the 
*most outright leader and scholors of Shi'et Islam. 
*	(of course you know that).




As-salam-u-alaikum,

I don't know much about Sh'et Islam, but I do know one thing.  There are
clear cut rules setup by our Prophet(SAW) to reconcile differences in 
interpretation of the Qu'ran in his absence. Once you follow these rules 
to come to a conclusion, every muslim must abide by it. 

If every one had their own interpretation, there would be no religion of Islam. 
For that matter why even be a muslim if you can't agree w/ the religion. Don't 
you think there was a premonition of such conflicts even before these rules of 
interpretation were set in place?

Concerning interpreting the Qu'ran, in the matter of the crucifixion, it is CLEARLY 
said in the Qur'an that the Jews were deceived. What more do you want?  Why are 
the Xtians having such a hard time explaining their postion on this matter & the 
matter of Jesus'(AS) "Godhood"?  The truth is always straight forward. I see all 
these folks (Bahai's, Xtians, Ahmedis, etc.) engage in such vigourous calisthenics 
to explain even the simplest of facts that it even makes ME perspire. ;-)

To this day I have not seen anyone find ANY contradictions in the text of
the Qur'an. Even so, with all these contradictions in the Bible they try to compare 
& reconcile the Bible's text with that of the Qur'an. Their actions lead them to
apostatize.  Astagfirullah!


---



regards


-Aslam Haswarey
{786}