HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wmorgan@stsci.edu (Windsor A. Morgan)
Subject: Who Offed the New Mutants? (was Liefield Throws Tantrum)
Followup-To: rec.arts.comics.misc
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 19:18:55 GMT

>In <BtB30I.6pp@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt Hucke) writes:
>>Worse.  He destroyed the New Mutants, what was once one of Marvel's most
>>interesting books, and replaced it with X-farce, a book completely devoid
>>of any plot or characterization.  

In article <joshm.714419534@crash> joshm@crash.cts.com (Josh Mercer) writes:
> I think a clairification is in order here.  By the time Rob got to the 
>New Mutants, they were already near death from Weezie and Blevins.  Rob just
>put a REALLY BIG gun to their collective heads and ended the suffering.

Well, I didn't read The New Mutants, so the following question and
statements may not be valid.

I always thought that an editor of a comic book exercised complete
control over a comic book (subject to the opinions of the
Editor-in-Chief and/or the Executive Editor, if they existed).
How could Liefeld (or Louise Simonson or anybody else) get the
credit (or the blame) for destroying The New Mutants?  The editor
of the book allowed that to happen.  The editor, if he didn't like
what he saw, could have told the creator so and the creator could have
changed (or reached a compromise) with the editor.  Whatever happened
to The New Mutants was not just Liefeld's fault.  It was also the
editor, and by extension, the Marvel Entertainment Group.


-- 
'Verily, there be no leader as wise as the Vision!'
                         Windsor Morgan (wmorgan@stsci.edu OR NHT@PSUVM.BITNET)
                         Space Telescope Science Institute
                         Baltimore, MD   21218
Xref: sparky rec.arts.comics:22011 rec.arts.comics.misc:1066
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Conty-kun)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics,rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Mike Jittlov (was Re: Worst Comic Books of All Time)
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:18:45 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.comics.misc
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <jittlov.713694687@gumby.cs.caltech.edu>, jittlov@gumby.cs.caltech.edu (Mike Jittlov) writes:
> tyg@dip.eecs.umich.edu (Tom Galloway) writes:
> 
> >Hmm, does this or doesn't this violate the r.a.c. rule of creative
> >people in the group? To summarize, so far anyone whose name is the same
> >as a writer actually is that writer, while anyone whose name is that
> >of an artist (in the drawing sense) even if they also do writing is actually
> >not the artist. Now, Mike certainly qualifies as a writer, but does video/film
> >work cause him to be the first exception to the artist qualifier?
> 
> Still trying to figure out the above.  

Simple.  If you see a "Peter David" here, he's the same guy who writes
X-FACTOR and THE INCREDIBLE HULK.  If you see an "Arthur Adams" or
"Kevin Maguire", they're NOT the same as the comics artists.

And so on...

> Did do a lot of drawing for WIZARD.  The island girl (waves at wizard
> running on water) was a half-inch high animation (and drawn the hard way,
> no rotoscoping or models, all from distant memory).

Then I guess you broke the rule.  You're a published artist, AND you
post on r.a.c.

Follow-ups to rec.arts.comics.misc.  Folks, this newsgroup is going away
soon.  It's time to start moving threads over to r.a.c.misc.
-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			The Incredible Man-with-no-Life
			      jester@ihlpl.att.com
		    Disclaimer: You're not dealing with AT&T
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: teo33398@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Doctor Zero)
Subject: Re: Liefield Throws Tantrum
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 05:32:20 GMT

hgarcia@sw.stratus.com (Henry Garcia) writes:



>	This is a general comment on the recent (or perhaps not so recent)
>	Rob Liefield discussions. It seems to me people are taking the 
>	'destruction' or the ruining (sp?) of these characters and blowing 
>	things way out of proportion.  Come on, these are comic books, it's 
>	not like they really mean anything.  They are supposed to be for 
>	entertainment.
	
	What in the hell is that supposed to mean???  Comic books are no less
viable an art form than books or movies or music.  Just because they have,
for the last 50 years, mostly been musclebound morons in tights beating the 
spit out of each other doesn't mean that the medium is limited to that.
Saying of comic books, it's "not like they really mean anything" just shows
that, like most people, you've fallen in to the narrow tunnel-vision of
thinking that comic books are and will always be kid stuff.
	As for the ruining of the characters, I think it most certainly IS
something to get mad at.  For god's sake he destroyed our DREAMS!!!  He 
took something that was once good and twisted it into a stranger, something
that repulsed us.  How would you feel if a friend of yours whom you had known
and liked all your life suddenly changed into a real *sshole one day, with
no explanation why???  That's what happened with New Mutants.  That's why
he ticks me off.

>	 Admittedly, some people may think that his work does 
>	not entertain them in the least, and thats fine.  I don't think we 
>	should linch the guy.  If you really don't like his attitude, his work,
>	or whatever, just ignore him. If he really is that bad he will drop off
>	into the void. 

	Sure.  Like Elvis.  And Donny Osmond.  And Vanilla Ice.  They come,
make their splash, set the industry back a decade or two and THEN they 
disappear.  The sad thing is that Rob will NOT be forgotten.  (BTW, as often
as the word "lynching" has been used in this series of threads, you could at
least spell it right.  I'd suggest looking in the OED2.)

>       We each have our opinions and they are just that, opinions.
>	I shouldn't be made to change them because someone else believes
>	otherwise.  Nor would I hope to change someone elses opinions.

	If you didn't want to change anyone's opinions, you wouldn't have
written the article.  But seriously...
	I think Rob sucks.  That's okay;  I just don't buy his stuff.  But
I will definitely not tolerate anyone calling him one of the comic's greats.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Hand in hand is the only way to land..."    The Cure
					    "The Lovecats"
finger teo33398@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu for the extended remix .sig...
Xref: sparky rec.arts.comics:22238 rec.arts.comics.misc:1359
From: kesidis@panther.uwaterloo.ca (George Kesidis)
Subject: Comics with Missing Coupons
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:10:49 GMT

Fool that I am, I decided to ask a local store owner
if he had any valiant back issues. He laughed and
said that the only copies he had seen were missing coupons
and therefore in at best VG condition.
For a recent comic, VG condition is  the kiss of death
so he said they were worth about 50 cents each in that state.

What is the deal here? If the comic books themselves are
in mint condition but with the insert (coupon) missing, do they
become worthless?
gk
From: sl859@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: For  Sale!
Date: 13 Aug 92 12:10:57 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1992Aug13.142847.15264@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, mac7@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael A. Chary) writes:
> 
> Okay, since I have received a variety of messages explaining that
> the original post was supposed to be funny, I thought it prudent
> to explain that I *KNEW* the damn thing was funny.  Mine
> was supposed tobe a joke too.  Obviously it needed about fifteen
> smileys, but jeez guys, I mean I have posted three or four
> times begging people not to flame for sale postins.  Why on
> Earth would I seriously advocate flaming, Dave?!!!!

			Oh I dunno, Violent Mood Swings perhaps?!

						wReam...

P.S.  There are alot of those Whackos on the net you know!  You just
gotta watch your back!

:) <---- disclaimer!  (for safety!)
From: steppe@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Top Changwatchai)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Hellblazer Annual #1
Date: 19 Aug 92 10:52:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: ut-emx.78004

I just recently got interested in Hellblazer (having been introduced to the
character in Sandman #3).  I've got about every issue except for the early
ones (which is fine since the TPB is coming out in a coupla months).  One
thing I haven't got and haven't found at any of the local comic shops,
however, is the Hellblazer Annual #1 (the only one, I think).  Does anybody
have comments on it?  Is it any good?  Should I bother looking for it?

Also, what about any of the Constantine appearances in Swamp Thing?  I'm not
a collector, so I'd only be interested if the stories were any good.  I'd
appreciate any advice/commentary given.

Top
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: tap1040@venus.tamu.edu (SPEED RACER)
Subject: Re: Spidey 2099
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:20:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.165506.14551@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>, stailey@comm.mot.com writes...
> 
>*I somehow doubt the Spidey of 2099 even has powers, per se, since he uses 
>*climbing claws to cling to buildings (see preview in Amazing Spidey Hologram 
>*Cover). 
> 
> 
> From what I remember... Peter told us at the Chicago Comicon that
> the new Spiderman will gain his powers from some kind of genetic
> experimentation. He will also be mutating from time to time. The 
> real interesting thing is that his webs do not come from shooters
> rather they ooze from the pores in his body. The book is written
> by Peter David with art by Rick Leonardi. 
> 
> BTW, this guy is no relation to Peter Parker.. and Aunt May will
> not still be alive.


All I know is that the last statement is correct, and that several months
ago Peter David said on the net, "he will be so Spider-like that he will
do everything except shoot webs out of his @$$!"  or something to that effect.

________________________________________________________________________________

                                 -SPEED RACER-                    
                                     Tracy      
                              Texas A&M University
				   WHOOP!!!!

John Madden: "There's a good sign.  Troy Aikman putting his pants back on."
Pat Sommerall: "That's ALWAYS a good sign."
________________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: rutled@bnr.ca (Philip Rutledge)
Subject: Re: Predator vs. Magnus Questions
Reply-To: rutled@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 01:28:53 GMT

lbonham@Osbu_South.Xerox.COM wrote:
: Greetings,
: 
: Reading my most recent "Advance Comics" has generated some questions
: wrt/ the DarkHorse/Valiant collaboration on Predator vs. Magnus Robot
: Fighter. Namely...

I may have some answers.... My source is the NICE News monthly for 
August.  It contains some info from the Chicago Con where Chuck
Rozanski (Owner of Mile High?) talked to Jim Shooter and Valiant.

: Is BWS (BarryWindsorSmith) doing anything other than cover art?

As far as I know he is only doing the covers.  Lee Weeks is doing
the interior art.

: Is JS (JimShooter) really associated with this?

Yes, he apparently wrote this as one of his last project with Valiant

:   And if so, what are his current ties to Valiant?
:     ie does he "own/co-own" characters?

Unsure, aren't all characters by Valiant owned by Voyager Communications
exept for Magnus, Solar and Turok which are owned by Western Publishing.

:     is he still on good terms with them (Valiant)?

Don't know, his contract with Valiant doesn't end until the fall and
he is still a major stockholder in Valiant.

: Any ideas on whether we can expect any other Valiant characters
:   to pop up in the DarkHorse universe?
 
No idea.  

Inversely is Predator going to pop up any where else.  First Aliens,
then Batman now Magnus! Next in line is a Marvel or Image team-up :-)

Later,
Phil

--
......................................................................
Philip Rutledge (rutled@bnr.ca)                  Bell-Northern Research
......................................................................
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics,rec.arts.comics.misc,rec.arts.comics.xbooks
From: jmclaughlin@gems.vcu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: feminist comics?
Date: 15 Aug 92 16:00:19 -0400
Organization: Medical College of Virginia

In article <BsJF23.Kst@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, wck48787@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Wika C. Kao) writes:
>  I was just wondering, I know that most comics readers are
>  male, but are there any feminist comics out there?  You
>  know, comics that aren't degrading the way most Marvels and
>  other mainstream books are?  Can any one tell me titles, etc.

Somewhere at home, I have the issues of Sisterhood of Steel, which was, I 
believe a miniseries of 12 books and a graphic novel.  The writer was Cristy 
(sp?) Marx, who also wrote for the cartoon "Jem and the Holograms".  
Sisterhood was a pretty good series if you like a more fantasy/medieval 
setting.  The art was decent (I can't remember the artist's name...Peter 
something), and, especially in the graphic novel, has many little touches in 
the background that make it worthwhile to break out a magnifying glass. :)
I can't remember the company that published the series or the novel.
The only problem I ever had with the books was that the main character was 
white during the series and somehow became black for the graphic novel...

						Judy
From: EAO102@psuvm.psu.edu (Ernie Oporto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: Marvel History
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:43:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: psuvm.92227.144309EAO102
Organization: The Pennylvania State University

In article <1992Aug14.165351.3859@ohm.york.ac.uk>, dc@ohm.york.ac.uk (Dave
Cullen) says:
>
>  I've been given the unenviable (if not impossible) task of defining the
>history of the Marvel Universe. Cap.America's appearance, that sort of
>thing. Problem is, the only Marvel titles I regularly subscribe to are the
>X-titles (sad, but true!), consequently my information resources are small
>and...well...inherently inconsistent.
>  Is there anyone in possession of a structured Marvel history out there
>(grease grease grease!!!)

There used to be a set of books Marvel made that were the official history
of the Marvel Universe.  It was Marvel Saga and I dont believe it was out
for long (I have issues 1-7 myself).  It's probably pretty outdated by now,
since most of it was probably retconned away...=)

  _____)           ______        _)       _)  EAO102@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
                               __       __    OPORTO@CORVETTE.ECE.PSU.EDU
______    ______            ___      ___      Ernie "SHOKK" Oporto
                               __       __    Computer Lab Attendant
(_______ _      _ ________ _     _) _     _)  for PSU's CAC Department
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: cwelsh@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Craig Welsh  8823239)
Subject: Re: WildC.A.T.S
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 03:06:18 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.192914.1@gallua.gallaudet.edu> 11telliott@gallua.gallaudet.edu (Zarathustra) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.125347.20476@morgan.ucs.mun.ca>, cwelsh@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Craig Welsh  8823239) writes:
>Whoa! I still think it's impossible to get a solid grasp on mutie continuity,
>and I've been behind since X-Crap #143. We'll see if Image goes down the well
>travelled path of Mahvel and DC, or blaze its own...

Unless Image gets act together and soon the only path that it will be
burning is the one straight to hell. It's not to late....yet.

As for the X-Men, I understand their contunity perfectly. You mean not
everybody does? :-)


*************************************************************************
* Craig Welsh                  *    "I'm a few bricks short of a       *
*                              *     load, but a full load always      *
* cwelsh@morgan.ucs.mun.ca     *     hurt my back."                    *
*                              *     "Crazy" - Barenaked Ladies        *
************************************************************************
* "Homeboy from Hell." Screw that. I'm the Waiter from Hell.           *
*  You figure out which is scarier.                                    *
************************************************************************


Xref: sparky rec.arts.comics:22107 talk.bizarre:26133 alt.sex:26727
From: dp0q+@andrew.cmu.edu (David M. Pahnos)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics,talk.bizarre,alt.sex
Subject: Re: Death's Gender
Date: 15 Aug 92 09:48:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.4eXIBaW00VpDQOm0oV
	<1992Aug15.042542.29812@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
Organization: Robotics Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

>Who wants to have sex with Death, anyway?

>Big Al.  Who has heard of some sick things in *my* time but...


obviously, a necrophiliac

sorry, i couldnt resist

michael j pastor iii
guest on davids account
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
From: cwelsh@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Craig Welsh  8823239)
Subject: Re: WildC.A.T.S
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:31:48 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.094314.58152@cc.usu.edu> sl859@cc.usu.edu writes:
>                    Recipe to Understanding Xmen Continuity
>
>        	Understanding X-men continuity is pretty simple.  
>INGREDIENTS:
> 		1	Sledgehammer
>                1	Shot Gun
>		1 	Bazooka (or RPG)
>		2 quarts of White Paint
>		enough ammunition.
>		2 quarts of Lemonade 
>		(Optional:  Lots of Drugs)
>
>Pulverize all your X-comics with the Sledge, Apply Shotgun Brisquely.
>As smoke clears fire two shots of Bazooka and then apply the paint to whatever
>is left.  Then invoke the spirits in the smoke and drink lemonade til you
>are in a stupor...  Drugs are to be mixed in the Lemonade....
>The trick is to read the smoke lines....
>							wReam...
>P.S.  Enjoy, oh and kids don't try this at home!

Oh, okay, right, sure, no problem. Might I point out that you don't
really need to go through this much trouble to understand X-Men
continuity. In your case I think you've got the drug thing worked out
pretty well before you ever got to the shotgun and bazooka.

Bethinks a bit to much time on your hands lately.

*************************************************************************
* Craig Welsh                  *    "I'm a few bricks short of a       *
*                              *     load, but a full load always      *
* cwelsh@morgan.ucs.mun.ca     *     hurt my back."                    *
*                              *     "Crazy" - Barenaked Ladies        *
************************************************************************
* "Homeboy from Hell." Screw that. I'm the Waiter from Hell.           *
*  You figure out which is scarier.                                    *
************************************************************************
From: sl859@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: RAC CLOSING SEPT 30
Date: 14 Aug 92 09:32:39 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

>>>(and, if someone cares to reply by mail, what's the difference between .comics
>>>and .comics.misc?)
>>r.a.c.misc will still be here in two months. :) 
> I just hope the powers that be decide to add the extra groups before RAC
> shuts down for good.  We seem to be months behind in new group additions
> at times (except for comp.* groups).
> Just what are the other groups?  I'm not entirely sure what missing
> here.  We have:
> rec.arts.comics
> rec.arts.comics.forsale (wanted or whatever)
> rec.arts.comic-strips
> Obviously I'm missing out on something.
> Robert Cole
Robert,
	All I can say is that they are coming.  I had a few problems getting
ahold of the news groups.  The things I did, besides throw fits and have 
spasms was to write my news administrator, and asked him to look out for 
them.  When they did show up I cannot tell you the utter JOY and ECSTACY I 
experienced!  I cannot explain it in words, though.  It's something you just
have to experience!  So have faith and if you need something posted on 
RAC.misc, or RAC.xbooks you could E-mail them to me and I would post them.  
(Unless it got really ridiculous!)  
							wReam...

P.S.  The Masked Poster Strikes Again!
From: lintz@buster.cis.udel.edu (Brian Lintz)
Subject: Re: DC: Hellblazer/Swamp Thing query
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 19:29:24 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.123401.10262@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> cwelsh@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Craig Welsh  8823239) writes:

>For the ultra completist out there, there is a minor JC appearence that
>you are missing. It was in an issue of Green Arrow, I believe it was in
>the 20's. Ollie goes to Sherwood forest to investigate a mystery and
>stops off at a pub to ask questions. One of the questions spooks the
>locals (of course) and he is getting ready to leave when a nice English
>fellow pulls him aside and warns him about poking his nose into this
>matter. 3 guesses who it was? It is not actually said to be JC, but the
>look and the mannerisms were there.

Actually, it does say that its JC. Part of their exchange is something
like this (NOTE: NOT a direct quote):
  
  JC: If you go there you'll be walking straight into hell. 
  GA: If I mention your name, will I get a good seat? 
  JC: A warm welcome at least. Tell 'em Constantine sent you.

And if this isn't enough, the next issue box of the
previous issue explicitly stated it was JC.

Brian Lintz
lintz@udel.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Sandman questions
From: cbjuland@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:52:48 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

Who are all the people in the Sandman "Endless" poster? (I'm kinda new to all
the characters.)  I can recognize Dream, Death, Destiny, Desire, and Despair.
Is the punk girl at the bottom Deliriuor (Delight?) and who is the 
bearded guy in the back by the painting?

I also have a question about the comcic.  What is the purpose of Dreams helmet? 
He was afraid to take it off in front of Lucifer (issue #23).  Does it prothim
or is it just a badge of office?

Chris Bjuland
From: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics
Subject: Re: Marvel 2099 titles (Jester)
Date: 15 Aug 1992 07:47:21 GMT
Organization: The Sinister Icy Black Hand of Death Club
Reply-To: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
NNTP-Posting-Host: lightning.berkeley.edu
Originator: goldfarb@lightning.berkeley.edu

In article <BsztIG.F7u@acsu.buffalo.edu> jap@acsu.buffalo.edu (James A. Perreault) writes:
)does anybody know who John Francis Moore is?
)
)						Jim Perreault

	He and Howard Chaykin cowrote all the good episodes of the
Flash TV series. Don't know anything else about him.

-- 
   David Goldfarb          |"I'm going to die if you touch me one more time.
goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu  |Well, I guess that I'm going to die no matter what."
goldfarb@UCBOCF.BITNET     |          -- They Might Be Giants
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics,alt.sex,talk.bizarre
From: dboyes@is.rice.edu (David E Boyes)
Subject: Re: Top Ten Cartoon Babes...
Organization: Rice University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 02:43:54 GMT

In article <1992Aug05.144152.3624@bmerh85.bnr.ca> ngraham@bnr.ca writes:
>   The best of the lot is Druuna from Heavy Metal (Mobius?)  She knew where
>   to put it.  Either her or Minnie Mouse (that squeaky voice Ooooooo).

My $0.02:

1. Velma from Scooby Doo. I *like* smart women...
2. The female lead from _Akira_, whose name escapes me at the
   moment.
3. Betty, from the Flintstones. Wilma has no personality.
-- 
David Boyes
dboyes@rice.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics,alt.sex,talk.bizarre