Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.activism,misc.headlines
Subject: Re: Health care will-o-wisps
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Date: 9 Sep 92 10:57:27 EST
 <1992Sep8.110912.3960@desire.wright.edu> <1992Sep08.233518.8232@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

In article <1992Sep08.233518.8232@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>, kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay) writes:
> In article <1992Sep8.110912.3960@desire.wright.edu> demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes:
> 
>>	Canada was not the point.  The point is that for people who earn money,
>>the health care is there.
>>	If you want everyone to have health care, make it easier for them to
>>get a job.
> 
> Are you saying that if you don't have a job, you aren't entitled to health
> care, or are somehow undeserving of it?

	No, are you?

>>	Health care here in the US needs some reform, but not Canadian style
>>health care.
> 
> How do you define our health care? A why, specifically, do you believe the
> same system won't work elsewhere?

	How do I define Canada's?  A government sponsered HMO.

>>	When I was in North Conway, NH on vacation, I heard plenty of
>>complaints about Canadian health care.
> 
> Strange, I live in Canada, and rarely, if ever, hear any complaints about
> health care.

	I live in the US but rearely, if ever, hear any complaints about our
foreign policy. :)

>>	Too-high taxes, mediocre care.  Assembly-line like conditions.  Waiting
>>lists.
> 
> Taxes are, by definition perhaps, always too high. Assembly-line conditions?
> I haven't observed them _once_ in all the time I've lived here, going back
> to 1967. Care has always been readily available, I could always select my
> clinic or physician, and I have never had to wait long for anything, like
> x-rays, routine treatment, hospitalization, whatever.

	The assembly-line comment came from one person who was complaining
about the treatment doctors gave.  He said it reminded him of an auto-assembly
line.  The doctors would just plug-n-chug.

> The waiting lists are nearly a thing of the past, but they do exist in some
> cases (cancer treatment in some areas, some types of heart surgery, etc.). I
> would not consider them critical, nor do they have much affect upon general
> health care.

	How long would they be if the US could not be used as a pressure-relief
valve?
	When you have to leave the country for MRI, that's a problem.  You
can't even begin to get treated until you have an MRI, yet if you have to wait
months for an MRI, what are your chances of having successful treatment for an
illness where time is of the essence?

> One of the problems I had as a young father (early 20's) in the States, with
> a family of three (the fourth was born in Canada) was that I could not
> afford to provide my children with the level of health care they needed.
> That difficulty ceased to exist the moment I crossed the border. I'll take
> Canada's system, warts and all, over others.

	A common problem in the US is that people don't think about health care
when they look for a job.  (Not that you didn't.)  Until people start demanding
a good health plan as a condition of employment, they'll get stuck with little
or no health care.

	Is that the fault of the government?  No.  Neither is it the fault of
the government if you get no pay raise or your boss is an idiot.

Brett                                                      
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