From: joeles@cup.portal.com (Joel Edward Swan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer,comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re: Attn Commodore: You are making a Big Mistake (Hardware
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 19:29:03 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Nov13.221116.15921@ariel.ec.usf.edu>
  <1992Nov18.124549.12281@ifi.uio.no>
  <1992Nov18.225947.5840@beaver.cs.washington.edu>
  <1992Nov19.154759.12082@ifi.uio.no> <37190@cbmvax.commodore.com>
  <1992Nov21.123328.10653@ifi.uio.no>

>
>In article <37190@cbmvax.commodore.com>, bj@cbmvax.commodore.com (Brian Jackso
n
> - Amiga Networking) writes:
>> In article <1992Nov19.154759.12082@ifi.uio.no> stigo@ifi.uio.no (Stig Arne O
l
>sen) writes:
>> Hey. Commodore makes the chips, Commodore makes the machines,
>> Commodore writes the docs, Commodore pays the engineers and Commodore
>> decides what does and does not get released to the public.
>
>We all know that, but who buys the machines? Commodore?

So what?
>
>> We did it your way up til now and it created FAR more problems for
>> engineering, users and developers than it was worth.  So, this time,
>> we're doing it differently.  If, in your view, that "SUCKS!" then so
>> be it.  The fact is that "demo coders", while creating 'neato' things
>> to look at, do little or nothing for sales and they create an entire
>> generation of Amiga programmers that have failed to learn how to do it
>> right. The result is application software (you know, the stuff that
>> people pay MONEY for and expect to work on new machines) that is chock
>> full of silly, pointless coding errors and, often, _slower_ code than
>> if it had been coded properly from the start.
>
>Ok, if you didn't like my use choice of  words, I'm sorry, no offence
>intended.
>
>I think you missed my point earlier that a lot of people buy machines
>because of the demos. This is something that is very unique for the Amiga.

All I can say to this is BULL.  I've been with the Amiga since 1985.  I know
0 (that's zero) people who dished out between $500US and $3000Us to buy an
Amiga for some demos.  I DO know of dozens who have bought Amigas because
they run software that either makes money for them or can entertain for more
than 5 minutes.

>So, I think your point about not doing anything for sales is wrong.

And 99.99% of Amiga owners think your lame reasons are wrong.

>How many A500 vs A3000 has there been sold? If you don't release any
>new machines between the A1200 and A4000, I think you will see that the
>same thing will happen again, the A1200 will be the clear winner.
>I don't know if you guys at Commodore have even seen programs like ProTracker,
>that have become almost a standard in the demo world. Now there even exists
>mod-players for ms-dos machines!

Does protracker break all of the OS, kill multitasking and go entirely to
the hardware?  No?  Wow!  So why are you using it as an illustration? It
doesn't belong here.

>I wouldn't blame you (C=) if you redesigned the whole chip-set so that all
>hardware coded stuff broke. It's not your problem if my code doesn't work!

Ah, but how wrong you are.  When programs break, users get hacked off.  This
gives the machine a bad name and can sink sales.  Remember, you wouldn't be
the only one going directly to the hardware.  Unfortunately, "serious"
applications would do the same because it's a bad habit.

>And you must realize that there is a difference between coding applications
>and demos. Demos are not supposed to last a lifetime. When you release new

Only problem is, application developers would also write broken code.
Unfortunately it can only be everyone or no one.  That's the unfortunate
CRUX of the matter.

>chip sets, people just adjust after a while. It's not so critical as you
>seem to think. If you worry about getting the best possible hardware, let
>me worry about my programs working.

And CBM must also "worry" about their image.  They don't need to be seen as
a crash prone machine with software that breaks too many rules.

>>        +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +
>>        Brian Jackson    Amiga Networking Group, Commodore-Amiga Inc.
>>                         bj@cbmvax.commodore.com
>>      {uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!bj    or   networking@cbmvax.commodore.com
>>                        uva uvam vivendo varia fit
>
>|    Stig A. Olsen  |  stigo@ifi.uio.no  |  "Ja til EF"       |
>| Never hit a man with glasses.  Hit him with a baseball bat. |

-Joel
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  / Joel E. Swan....Pres./...Media Specialties, Ltd., Oak Forest, IL.USA  /
 / & Senior Producer..../...Moody Broadcasting Network, Chicago, IL. USA /
/ Portal ID: joeles..../...joeles@cup.portal.com                        /
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