From: speeo@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr Ercan Otemel 92)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re:Re:Deniz akkus'a
Date: 22 Nov 92 15:06:31 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College of Cardiff, Cardiff, Wales, UK
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

|
|
|Can you please define what the RELIGION is and what the RELIGIOUS
|FREEDOM is. You can also define SECULARISM if you like.
|
 FIRST question was :- WHAT IS RELIGION ?

  again   What is RELIGION ?

|Religious freedom is being able to obey or not obey a religious system
|of beliefs to the point of not interfering with someone else's right to
|do so.  I would support Islamic or whatever dress for people who wished

Where did you find this definition ? Have YOU made it up ?
	
In that case, can ANYBODY define these concepts as he WISHes?

BTW, What is a RELIGIOUS SYSTEM ?


|to dress as such, but not enforcing such dress on all.  I would support
|elective religion classes for all, but not mandatory classes.  I would
|support a work establishment that allowed its employees to take breaks
|for prayer but not one that forced its employees to pray.  I would show
|respect for those choosing to obey the dietary requirements of Islam,
|but would also not mind if someone chose not to keep such requirements.

Did anybody in this net CLAIM something else ?

|Problem is, from both religious and non-religious groups, the wish to
|make the others also conform.  So, if one does not like Islam, all those
|wishing to obey Islam are condemned.  If one is religious, one
|immediately starts trying to get all others to accept the full teaching
|of Islam, with repercussions to the government and law.  


Well !!. You have just come to some other concepts which need to be 
defined. What is RELIGIOUS GROUP or RELIGIOUS person ?
         What is ISLAM ?
         Why did you feel to mention ISLAM when you are talking
         about so called  RELIGIOUS FREEDOM. ?

         Is ISLAM the only RELIGION ?


|I don't think that Turkey is fully religiously free.  However whether or

Do you really believe this ?

|not a democracy should allow for a rule that would end democracy is a
|question.  That is, if Islamic government will cause problems and


What is democracy ? Why did you compare democracy with islam ?
    (look at your definitions first)

|discontent in those for which it proscribes less freedom -- that is,
|for its citizens allow such a government?  

|I do not wish to discuss 'how Islamic government is actually very good
|for women Christians and Jews if only they would see it as such'.  The
|point is that most of the members of these groups feel that Islamic
|government is not as good as a secular government for them, and they are
|entitled to their opinion.  

|So, coming back to religious freedom, if all one wants to do is to
|practice Islam as a religion, for one's self, there is religious freedom
|in Turkey.  You can go to your mosque, you can pray, you can keep to the
|teachings of Islam.  If you are facing discrimination in government
|positions or at school because you choose to obey Islam, you have my
|support.  But, if you  see Islam as a political entity for the
|material world as well as spiritual and if what you are wishing for is
|Islamic government and its rule over the people of Turkey, we have a
|problem.  Islamic government provides significantly different rights for
|women and other religious groups.  Such a change, I am against.   

Do these sentences make any sense without answers to the question above
?????????????


??????
	

|regards,


Can you see what the PROBLEM is ????  


|Deniz Akkus deniz@ctr.columbia.edu



Ercan
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:11780 talk.politics.mideast:22301 talk.politics.soviet:9016 soc.culture.greek:10716 soc.culture.europe:9660 soc.culture.soviet:10099 soc.rights.human:4242 soc.culture.yugoslavia:9589