HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: The Return of T. Archer
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:48:23 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education

Gentle Lords,

I have returned.  (In case anyone noticed that I was gone.)		

The Unix Wizards across the campus for their material components in order, 
and my UseNet access has been restored.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: DAVID@bmeucl.medcor.mcgill.ca
Subject: Re: Combat Archery
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 02:06:00 GMT

Hal writes:
>every inch, the result is inch-pounds.  (Our cousins across various
>seas may with to use centimeter-kilograms.)

ERG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :-)

For the physics impared, an erg is a dyne - cm (force multiplied by distance)
The MKS equivalent is the Joule, or Newton - meter. 

All kidding aside, though, your suggestion:                              
>The most practical method would be to fasten a bow horizontally, belly
>(and string down).  Take a spring scale and a ruler and measure the
>pull every inch.  Sum the pull measurements. 

would give a good approximation of the energy that is stored in the drawn
bow, some of which will eventually find its way into the arrow, and then
some of that will find its way into the heavy down range :)  :)

What we really want to get a handle on is the energy that is transferred to 
the arrow (or bolt).  If we could measure the velocity of the arrow when 
it leaves the bow, K.E. = 0.5 m v^2.  (Try equipping every archery marshall
in AnTir with a police radar unit. Ya Right)

draw * wieght gives a meaningless number, as it ignores such factors as the
shape of the force curve of the bow, the 'transfer efficiency' of the bow, the
height of the string, ...  On the other hand, it's really easy to measure, 
and has the backing of tradition. (does anybody else hear the music to 
the opening of Fiddler, or is it just me???). 

Does anybody know where the magical 70 foot-pounds came from?

Dafydd y Peireannydd
Ex- Lionsgater
currently residing in Shire l'Isle du Dragon Dormant
From: mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic Weather (was Re: Pennsic in brief)
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:54:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: NL.mjc.714318872
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

For the benefit of those who may be drawing general conclusions about 
Pennsic weather, I'd like to point out that this year was unusually cool
and dry for the area at that time of year.  (By dry I mean generally
non-humid; we got the usual amount of rain, but it wasn't miserable
between storms like it often is.)  Our whole summer has been cooler than
usual; I don't know what's going on, but I'm not complaining.

Ellisif
From: ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Grand Pennsic
Date: 20 Aug 92 00:33:47 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC


	I enjoyed Tibor's comments about Pennsic this year, they jibed pretty
well with what I experienced. I was never a 'in persona' type till now after
camping with Enchanted Ground. It took several days for me to assimilate, but
next year will be easier, and Pennsic will never be the same for me. It's 
funny, but it was even easier to ignore the modern stuff. It used to annoy
me in the past, but this year I just shut it out and it didn't bother me
(except perhaps, the Pennsic Hoagie Shoppe - ugh!).
	I never really convinced myself I was my persona or forgot about the
twentieth century (I haven't gone schizo *yet*), but there were moments that 
just felt right. The basic contradiction is that I appreciated those moments
so much only because my modern mind recognized them as just *so* period.
For instance, I bought a ewer and basin on the table in my pavillion for
washing my hands, when the water got dirty I just took the basin and flung
the dirty water out the back window into a ditch. This year I slept on a straw
mattress and featherbed, which is both wonderfully authentic and wonderfully
comfy. My persona would have thought these things everyday and the fact that
I thought they were special was modern in itself, but it still felt magical.
	The terrific thing about Pennsic is the timeframe allows you to take
the trouble to do the really authentic stuff, it's just not worth it for a
weekend. Next year, I am not goint to have to worry about hiding anything
out of period, I am simply not going to pack them. I will have to rent a truck
though :)
							-Ilaine

-- 
Liz Stokes         | 	Subduing evil by dancing on a dwarf,
Ilaine de Cameron  | 	Nataraja, the lord of Dance, 
                   | 	bestows grace on the world.
ilaine@panix.com   |
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: casig
Date: 15 Aug 92 02:53:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.713960856.F00001

"J>  From: bmdunfee@silver.sdsmt.EDU ("Barbara J. McCormack-Dunfee")
"J>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
"J>
"J>  Thanks to all who sent me info on bowling!  Our demo went well; we

Bowling? In period?

Like Irish road bowling or English lawn bowling perhaps?

If this is IP bowling, please leave me email about it at: 
trifid@agora.rain.com

(Unless others here express an interest...)

We are considering moving our shire's annual "authenticity event" to a later 
time period than late 12thc, and "audience participation" contests are a 
thing we are looking at.

(We could also use the 15th/16thc rules for tennis and golf, and the design 
of tennis bats, and period golf clubs, etc.. Who knows, we may find 15thc
soccer...(calcio?)  ;-> I know we won't be re-creating the Palio at Siena!)

Moreach NicMaolain
email to: trifid@agora.rain.com 
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: krogers@javelin.sim.es.com (K. Rogers)
Subject: Re: Combat Archery
Reply-To: krogers@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, Utah
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:23:55 GMT

DAVID@bmeucl.medcor.mcgill.ca writes:

>>The most practical method would be to fasten a bow horizontally, belly
>>(and string down).  Take a spring scale and a ruler and measure the
>>pull every inch.  Sum the pull measurements. 
>
>would give a good approximation of the energy that is stored in the drawn
>bow, some of which will eventually find its way into the arrow, and then
>some of that will find its way into the heavy down range :)  :)
>
>What we really want to get a handle on is the energy that is transferred to 
>the arrow (or bolt).  If we could measure the velocity of the arrow when 
>it leaves the bow, K.E. = 0.5 m v^2.  (Try equipping every archery marshall
>in AnTir with a police radar unit. Ya Right)

No radar gun needed.  The standard ballistic measuring devices utilize
the conservation of momentum to determine velocity.  What that means
is you fire the projectile into a block of favorite material and do
the momentum calculations.  Simple such gizmos consist of a blob of
putty on a pendulum; measure the swing height after firing, etc.

Note that conservation of energy won't work as you have material
deformations occuring all over the place.

I'm not an SCAer but it seems to me you could haul one of these simple
pendulum devices to a battle and have all archers fire any type of
combat leagal arrow at it several times from any kind of bow and
actually *know* what energy/momentum the arrow has without trying to
guess transfer functions, argue about recurves vs stick bows, etc.
Just do the experiment and see if it's within safety limits.

>draw * wieght gives a meaningless number, as it ignores such factors as the
>shape of the force curve of the bow, the 'transfer efficiency' of the bow, the
>height of the string, ...  On the other hand, it's really easy to measure, 
>and has the backing of tradition.

Precisely why some simple yet effective measuring device is needed.
It's not as if there aren't a bunch of techno weenies in the SCA,
certainly on the Rialto, who couldn't rig up something cheap, easy to
use yet sufficiently accurate.
-- 
Keith Rogers
krogers@javelin.sim.es.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sherman@trln.lib.unc.EDU ("Dennis R. Sherman")
Subject: fine work at night
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 12:56:51 GMT

Greetings to the Rialto from Robyyan.

In the discussion of centralized A&S activities at Pennsic, talk has 
turned to having sufficent light for fine work such as sewing and 
embroidery after the sun sets.  Nicholas asserts that people damaged 
their eyes by straining them in bad light, i.e. working by candle and 
firelight.

This is false.  Recent research (which I recently read in summary, 
somewhere, but don't recall where at the moment, sorry) has proven 
that reading, sewing, etc. in dim light does not damage your eyesight. 
Don't just trust me -- ask your eye doctor.  Certainly it can be more 
difficult to do fine work in dim light, and if you already have 
less-than-perfect eyesight (like all too many of us) doing fine work 
in dim light may well be difficult to impossible.  But trying won't 
harm your eyes.

There is an almost-period semi-solution, known as the embroiderer's 
lamp.  This is a candle or lamp with reflector and lens (usually a 
glass globe filled with water) intended to concentrate the light.  
They often came with more than one globe, to allow several people to 
sit around the lamp and work.  I don't recall the exact date at the 
moment, early 17th C. I believe.  References for this available on 
emailed request.

*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Robyyan Torr d'Elandris  Kapellenberg, Windmaster's Hill  Atlantia *
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Dennis R. Sherman  	         Triangle Research Libraries Network *
* dennis_sherman@unc.edu       Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill *
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
From: ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic, Some Thoughts
Date: 20 Aug 92 11:22:29 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <92232.092540CLINDSAY@vma.cc.nd.edu> CLINDSAY@vma.cc.nd.edu writes:
>Greetings from Katherine Lenge (sometimes known as "of Constantinople").
>I think one reason Pennsic may have seemed subdued to you is that (at
>least this is my impression) there weren't as many merchants.  I think
>the reason for this is that the restrictions on merchanting have gotten
>more strict.  Last year, merchants strecthed far down the road past the
>Chirurgeons and Heralds all the way to the end of that road to the
>solar showers!
>And it seems to me that the number of merchants around the barn and
>behind it was lower too.
>I don't have any numbers, this is just my impression.

	Um, does this mean you never found the second merchanting area
along the battle road? And  you call yourself a shopper :)
	-Ilaine


-- 
Liz Stokes         | 	Subduing evil by dancing on a dwarf,
Ilaine de Cameron  | 	Nataraja, the lord of Dance, 
                   | 	bestows grace on the world.
ilaine@panix.com   |
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: The Jesuit Filk
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:18:21 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: SCA

Unto the good gentles of the Rialto does Hossein Ali Qomi send greetings and
prayers for the blessings of Allah.

Reginald of the Fells recently posted:

>For those of you looking for a clever song to sing at a bardic, I think you 
>will like this one.  Your comments will be most appreciated.
>
>I would like to post a filk song written by a good SCA friend, Lord James
>Qui Connait of the Barony of Dragonsspine, Kingdom of the Outlands.  He
>would love to have it used by anyone that likes it, however he would like
>to have credit for it if the singer would be so kind.
>
>THE FRENCH JESUIT'S SONG
>(To the tune of "If I Only Had A Brain" from The Wizard Of Oz)
[Text of song deleted, but basically a French Jesuit's bemoaning that he
wasn't torturing people for the Spanish Inquisition]

Since you solicited comments...

There are two problems with this sort of enterprise.  First, as with all
filks of recognizably modern songs, the music places the work definitively
out of the Middle Ages and calls attention to this fact which, I believe,
is inappropriate for performance at events, but we have already beaten
this horse to its constituent molecules.  Second, the content is funny only
to the extent that it plays upon ignorance of history and I do not believe
that we should be spreading historical ignorance.  

The founder of the Jesuit order, St. Ignatius Loyola, was himself twice 
imprisoned by the Spanish Inquisition, which was largely controlled by the 
Dominican (and to a lesser extent the Franciscan) order.  No French Jesuit 
would have ever expressed the sentiments voiced in the song; indeed, the 
Jesuit order opposed the inquisition in France (largely from fear of 
strengthening the Dominicans at court).  A song about persecuting Jansenists 
would be rather more appropriate, although lamentably out of period.  

Furthermore, while Protestants would lampoon Catholic doctrine, I find it 
difficult to believe that a medieval or renaissance Catholic would.  I also 
find it interesting that if sentiments half so savage were imputed to Pagans 
or Jews, the uproar would be deafening, but, then, many persist in the 
belief -- encouraged by popular interpretation of Corpora's prohibition of 
"religion" in the Society -- that Catholicism was irrelevant to the lives of 
medieval and renaissance Europeans.

Most SCAdians don't know much history, and songs which reinforce modern,
ahistorical stereotypes are singularly unhelpful in redressing this
situation.

While I grant that many believe that we should not be the Society for
Compulsive Authenticity, I am convinced that we should neither be the Society
for Compulsive Inauthenticity, and, while it is too much to hope that all
our efforts will encourage historical understanding, it is better that we
not go about spreading historical ignorance.

In Service,

Hossein/Greg
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: kids in SCA
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:01:06 GMT
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <Bt77Ev.9E@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:
>When do you suppose the distinction between arms and badges started?  I mean,
>it's an old saw that the arms identify the person and the badge identifies
>associates and property, but when did that start?

The first badge in the SCA was registered around 1971.  (It happens to
be the Roman numerals "M X-bar", which is to say an "M" followed by an
"X" with a bar over it, the value of MX-bar being '9000'.)

Within a few months, other badges were registered and they--like the
first one--started being used to mark items belonging to the badge
holder.  

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: pmw2c@csissun10.ee.Virginia.EDU (Paul Michael Wayner)
Subject: Re: Who Won the War?
Reply-To: pmw2c@csissun10.ee.Virginia.EDU (Paul Michael Wayner)
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 00:47:56 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.161916.1@idiws1.idi.battelle.org>,
system@idiws1.idi.battelle.org writes:

|> We've got more than two kingdoms involved here, and they all deserve
|> credit for their participation.  My Kingdom (along with our allies)
|> lost the tourney, but I had great fun anyway.  (I heard that we were
|> outnumbered almost 2 to 1, so the outcome wasn't much of a suprise.)
|> 
According to the Marshalls that I talked to the two sides were about
equal for the various battles, although the Middle was outnumbered in
archers.

				Conrad Hebenstorm
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)
Subject: vacation
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:18:16 GMT


just got back from an extended vacation in the Kingdom of the West.  

When I checked my e-mail, I found I had nearly _one hundred_ Rialto
_digests_.  Eek!  I deleted almost all of them except for the most
recent ones.  

Is there some possibility of the system administrators setting up some
sort of program that could temporarily stop someone from receiving the
digest when they go out of town?  Or do I just have to unsubscribe and
resubscribe?  

Fujimoto
From: 00mjstum@bsu-ucs.uucp (Matthew J. Stum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Arrows (was Authenticity, A
Date: 19 Aug 92 22:10:16 GMT

>                       golf tube arrows
>                       vvvv
>>	With three of them hastily made, and 15 minutes practice with my
>>new 50# bow I could hit a slightly less than man-width lightpost at 30 yards
>>about 50% of the time.  They are less accurate and slightly shorter ranged
>>than Markland blunts, but not nearly as bad as some people like to claim
>>that they are.
> 
> Quite true, with a *50* pound bow.  If the rules back east are the same as
> those out here, the maximum poundage on a war bow is 30#.  At 50#, I think
> that golf tube arrows might be workable, but I've never tried golf tubes in
> any case.  I also don't know what the impact of a 50# would be like, but I
> would be willing to do the testing.  Provided that there were 35#, 40#, and
> 45# bows to use gradually building up the poundage....  :)
> 
> --Alan Fletcher
> arrow@u.washington.edu

Actually, here in the Middle, the current poundage limit is set at 55#.
Most of us here in our shire that are interested have found some 50#
fiberglass bows that we're going to cover.

The impact is quote noticable at 20 yards or so... you definitely won't
have the problem of fighters not even knowing that they've been hit.  :-)

-- 
Matt Stum                    Gwydion ap Myrddin       Ball State University
00mjstum@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu   Shire of Afonlyn, MK     Muncie, IN  USA
From: CLINDSAY@vma.cc.nd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic, Some Thoughts
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:24:01 GMT
 <92232.092540CLINDSAY@vma.cc.nd.edu> <1992Aug20.112229.26680@panix.com>

This is Katherine Lenge again.
Yes, I think I did find all the merchants (I did visit all of them along
the battlefield road, especially) and still have the impression they were
fewer in number.  I also think there was less selling of modern and clearly
non-SCA stuff, due to stricter rules.
I shopped too much (though I bought but little): it took me days to have
any energy after I got home, but being with child this should not be a great
surprise, I guess.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: dasher@well.sf.ca.us (D Anton Sherwood)
Subject: Re: Hello, my name is...
Keywords: anton caeso arnulf loudmouth
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 23:01:44 GMT

Seeing what others have said of themselves, I remember a couple of things I
left out.

I play go (that transpacific board game) almost as often as I can -- I'm a
fumbler with aspirations to becoming a dabbler.

I sang madrigals for a while in Pasadena (both SCA and outside).  Baritone,
without enough range to be comfortable either as a bass or as a tenor.  I
quit mainly because all the songs I got to sing were uncomfortably full of
either fa-la-las or theology.

Born in Italy (on a Fulbright scholarship) almost 32 years ago.  
Ancestors include some of the first Quakers in Pennsylvania (Newlin) and,
according to grandma, a member of the seven-foot honor guard of a King of
Norway.  There must be a link to Scotland somewhere -- my beard is red, and
other Sherwoods have names like Bruce, Malcolm, Donald, Robert.  (No, not
the famous Robert Sherwood.)

I'm six-four, 18 stone, blue (or maybe gray) eyes, dusty blond hair (with a
hint of red but only in strong sunlight).  Familiar with Esperanto, Latin,
French and Italian, and able to correct the grossest misconceptions (but not
the finer ones, like my own) in several other languages.

anton@cloondara.mists.west.sca
-- 
D Anton Sherwood *\\* dasher@well.sf.ca.us *\\* +1 415 664 2229
Libertarian candidate for California Assembly, 12th district
From: Joe.Bethancourt@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Bethancourt)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: higlander ( was re:
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 23:07:00

 -=> Boris said to All on 08-18-92  08:36 <=- 

 Bo> morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay) writes:

 > Dinnae take anything authentic in Highlander to be authentic!

 Bo> There are 17 different Recognized Modern  Macleod tartans. Conners was
 Bo> not one of them. Given the jacobite rebellion and the banning of the 
 Bo> tartan thereafter however, you never know it just might have been the
 Bo> one  authentic thing in the film.   
 Bo> For those that don't know there are less than 30 authentic pre
 Bo> 1700's  tartans. The rest are dubious at best and many were created in
 Bo> the 1700's  and later for fashion reasons.

But the castle!  The Seat of The MacRae! (Whose tartans are recognized by 
Lyon as pre-1745, -including- the so-called "Prince Chas. Edward."

                                                -Ioseph of Locksley
                                                 Grumpy MacRae

Whose wife is the Short MacRae, and whose cousin, Duke Deaton Claymore,
is the BIG MacRae.......and a mess more in the local SCA......


... We are such stuff as Dreams are made of ............
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: daryl@zaphod.uchicago.edu (Daryl McLaurine)
Subject: [FUNNY ?]Too many realities...
Organization: Dept. of Mathematics, Univ. of Chicago
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 21:34:13 GMT

Overheard at an informal bash (what else would you call a fighter's party?)
	[...somthing untoward happens...]
	*OH* Paint Check!, er, Ceace Fi..Um, HOLD!!!YEA HOLD!, Oh HEll
	Just stop a minute!

So, I'm easily amused...;-}
                     ____________________________________
<*}HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHI___________________________________/ Standard Disclamer
Isamu Torinaga / Hiroko Miratsuki, Samurai, College of Grey Gargoyles, MidRealm
Daryl McLaurine / Trudy Seabrook, daryl@zaphod.uchicago.edu (128.135.72.61)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Who Won the War?
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:29:00 -0500

> Along another note: I know that the East (and allies) won all three
> archery war points, but I'd like to know the exact numbers for the two
> open shoots:  total score and archers shooting.  If anyone has this
> information, please either e-mail to me or post it for everyone.
 
Basically, the East (and Allies) outshot and outnumbered the Mid (and Allies)
just slightly in both events. My recollection is that the average per gentle was
a bit less than 2 points each on the Castle Shoot and close to 1 each on the
Charging Barbarians.  I'll get the exact numbers and post them when I can...
 
Macsen

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca