HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: andrei@gregoire.osf.fr (Andrei Danes)
Subject: Re: Romanian humor
Reply-To: andrei@gregoire.osf.fr (Andrei Danes)
Organization: OSF Research Institute
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:13:14 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.163649.8493@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il>
jhsegal@wiscon.weizmann.ac.il (Livian) writes:
>In article <csw1rlr@rpi.edu> kai@unix.cie.rpi.edu (Kai Yang) writes:
>>I lived in Romania for a while. It seems to me that Romanian enjoy
>>jokes (banc) and humors more that people from most other countries. It
>>is also my impression that Romanians live quite happily even though
>>they are not materially rich. I wonder whether such culture can have
>>negative effects on working ethics of Romanian people. I mean, if
>>people spend too much time and energy in talking and enjoying, can
>>they work hard and seriously?
>

Hi Livian (sorry I missed your last name)

>No,and they don't!

1)That's what I call an introduction! Pretty concise and going straight to
the aim. It just makes one eager to learn more ...

>The fact that the Romanians spend a hell of a lot of time for nothing,
>allways looking for "easy money" without work is well known.

2)It goes without saying.

>It is not so correct to tell it about ALL the Romanians since I am sure
>that there are Romanians who work hard for their living,

3)Still to be proved! I mean, you said you are sure there are such Romanians,
but do you really *know* at least one who is likely to fulfill the "hard
working" pattern ? 

>but a big majority allways looks for business,

4)So, they are hardly and seriously looking for business.

>triks,

5)Did you mean Ultrix ?

>and ....

6)I can feel the climax is near ! 

>roberry...

7)Nightmares come suddenly true. I knew it! I ALWAYS HAVE KNEW IT !

>Again:not ALL of them.

8)... (go to 3) )

>P.S.:This is not prejudice.

9)There is no dubt.

>I lived there.

10)So, you lived *there* ? Terrible experience, must have been. 
Still, we are all happy to know that you are safe now...


Well Livian, I think every reader of this newsgroup should be thankfull to
you for sharing your experience. I personally feel I have learned a lot from
your article.

Andrei

P.S. One could easily figure out that I am a Romanian myself, from the fact I
spend my time browsing the news, instead of working ... 
(sigh!, "ce se naste din pisica ...")

Andrei Danes  
OSF Research Institute     EMAIL: andrei@gr.osf.org  
2,  Avenue de  Vignate     PHONE: (33) 76 63 48 97    
38610 Gieres    FRANCE     FAX:   (33) 76 51 05 32
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
From: kai@unix.cie.rpi.edu (Kai Yang)
Subject: Corruption Problem in Romania
Organization: CIE, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 05:22:49 GMT

Corruption problems exist in virtually every country. However,
there is a difference in degree. 

Romania was a very corrupted society during the period that I was
there. I guess the problem has not been solved in the post-communist
era.  I will give a few examples that I know of. 
Bribe (bila) is needed in many social activities. Few people will
feel insulted or offended if someone offer bribes to them.  You
need a carton of Kent cigarette if you want to see a doctor. You probably
need a pack of coffee if you need an approval from an officer.
Students don't need to buy train tickets, but simply give 10 lei to
"control" (persons who check tickets). Foreign students in medical
school can buy course grades from their professors. Mailmen steal
the mail. ... All these are not only open secret but aslo almost socially
accepted conduct.

I would appreciate if someone can give a discussion and analysis of
this subject from this newsgroup in the following aspects: 

1. The historical, social, and cultural origins of the corruption problem.
   Is it the results of the Ottoman rule in the history (a Romanian friend
   told me so.)? 
   Is it the results of the communist regime (I have seen less corrupted
   communist and capitalist countries.)?
   or, is it because of the living standard difference between Romania
   and western countries? 

   
2. Are there any possible measures that can  be taken so that corruption
   can be supressed to a controlable level? Or, simply, it is an
   unsolvable  problem.
From: kai@unix.cie.rpi.edu (Kai Yang)
Subject: Re: Romanian humor
Organization: Center of Integrated Electronics,
              Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, New York
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:00:55 GMT

>In article <1992Nov18.163649.8493@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il> jhsegal@wiscon.weizmann.ac.il (Livian) writes:

>>No,and they don't!
>>The fact that the Romanians spend a hell of a lot of time for nothing,
>>allways looking for "easy money" without work is well known.It is not so
>>correct to tell
>>it about ALL the Romanians since I am sure that there are Romanians who work
>>hard for their living,but a big majority allways looks for business, tricks,
>>and ....roberry...
>>Again:not ALL of them.
>
>>P.S.:This is not prejudice.I lived there.


This is more than an exaggeration. Even for New York City where the
rates of roberry and murder cases are very high, you can not say "a
majority" always looks for robbery. Romania has a much lower violent
crime rate, at least during the time I was there. Most Romanians are
friendly people. It is not objective and not fair to say that a big
majority always looks for business (which is not necessarily bad if
doing  non-corruptively), tricks and robbery.  Obviously, a
society can not survive if a big majority always looks for roberry.
Such a statement will unquestionablely hurt and offense most
Romanians, and cause a big flame of counter-attacks. Please avoid any
radical and untruthful statements if you can not completely eliminate
them.
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:03:15 EST
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Re: Romanian humor
 <1992Nov18.163649.8493@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il>

In article <1992Nov18.163649.8493@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il>,
jhsegal@wiscon.weizmann.ac.il (Livian) says:
>
>In article <csw1rlr@rpi.edu> kai@unix.cie.rpi.edu (Kai Yang) writes:
>>I lived in Romania for a while. It seems to me that Romanian enjoy
>>jokes (banc) and humors more that people from most other countries. It
>>is also my impression that Romanians live quite happily even though
>>they are not materially rich. I wonder whether such culture can have
>>negative effects on working ethics of Romanian people. I mean, if
>>people spend too much time and energy in talking and enjoying, can
>>they work hard and seriously?
>
>No,and they don't!
>The fact that the Romanians spend a hell of a lot of time for nothing,
>allways looking for "easy money" without work is well known.It is not so
>correct to tell
>it about ALL the Romanians since I am sure that there are Romanians who work
>hard for their living,but a big majority allways looks for business,triks,
>and ....roberry...
>Again:not ALL of them.

Sounds more like the effects of living under Communism than an innate cultural
flaw



>                                   ___
>                                  (o o)
> ------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------------------
>  __     __  __    ___ __     _     ___   __
>    |      |   \     /   |     \       \    | VM/CMS:
>    |      |    \   /    |    _ \       \   | JHSEGALL @                      l
>Weizmann.weizmann.ac.i
>    |___   |       /     |    _  \    |  \  | UNIX:
>        |  |      /      |   /    \   |     |  JHSEGAL  @
>Wiscon.weizmann.ac.il
>P.S.:This is not prejudice.I lived there.
Organization: Doctoral student, Philosophy, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:33:58 -0500 
From: Thomas Richardson <tr2g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: mail to romania

ad van zoelen writes:

>hi all..
>when i write letters to romania about 50% seems to get lost, especially
>when it is send to bucarest. does anyone know a trick to get it there
>safely, does it help if i send it registered?
>please mail me at my account: zoelen@rulfsw.leidenUniv.nl    
>because this newsgroup is not supported by my node and i only get
>a small part of the messages posted here.
>thanks, ad van zoelen, leiden, holland
 
I am surprised that your experience is so bad, I have sent a small
number of letters to Bucharest none of which have been lost, and quite a
large number to Trnasylvania, about 1 in every 16 of which has been
lost... I have found the postal service from Britain to Romania
astonishingly fast, with some letters taking about 4 days to arrive in
Transylvania....  which is faster than the mail service to the US from
Britain, and much faster than the mail service to Italy. (Admittedly
this is the minimum, some have taken up to 3 weeks to arrive, but the
average time is around 10 days, and the service appeared to improve
during the period 1991-92) I have also found that letters sent out of
the country seem to arrive fairly reliably.

I have found that sending things Express may take one days off the
delivery time, but I was never convinced that it was worth the extra
money. I don't know about registered post. My feeling was that
registering the letter might attract unwelcome interest.

One other thing that I have found is that letters sent in typed
'official looking' envelopes, and are 'franked' (i.e. do not have a
stamp), then they are very likely to be lost. In my experience the
delivery rate amongst 'official' letters was much less good, (though
admittedly my sample size was smaller)

I hope this is helpful,

Thomas

Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
From: mihai@sep.Stanford.EDU (Alexander Mihai Popovici)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Re: Corruption Problem in Romania
Date: 20 Nov 1992 19:32:58 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

In article <qnz1-__@rpi.edu>, kai@unix.cie.rpi.edu (Kai Yang) writes:
|> 
|> Romania was a very corrupted society during the period that I was
|> there. I guess the problem has not been solved in the post-communist
|> era.  I will give a few examples that I know of. 
|> Bribe (bila) is needed in many social activities. Few people will
|> feel insulted or offended if someone offer bribes to them.  You
|> need a carton of Kent cigarette if you want to see a doctor. 

This one is an economical problem.  Imagine a doctor in USA made 
only $5 an hour, or close to the minimum wage.  Wouldn't the tip
be important?  Why tipping a waitress is not unusual but tipping
a doctor is?  In Romania the legal salary of a doctor was the same
as the one for a waitress.  So they just demanded bigger tips.

The same mechanism applied to the whole economy.  People relied on
a second income to live.  I'll finish with an old joke.

ceausescu, Brezhnev and Carter discuss the standard of living in 
their country.
Carter says: The average salary in America is $2000. Food, rent and
other necessary spending costs the average American about $500 
and that leaves him with $1500 to spend on whatever he likes.

Brezhnev says: The average salary in Russia is 200 rubles. Food, rent and
other necessary spending costs the average Russian about 199 rubles
and that leaves him with 1 ruble to spend on whatever he likes.

ceausescu says: The average salary in Romania is 2000 lei. Food, rent and
other necessary spending costs the average Romanian about 3000 lei
and God knows how he gets the extra 1000.

Cheers
Mihai
From: mihai@nada.kth.se (Mihai Dorobantu)
Subject: Re: Romanian humor
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 09:05:53 GMT

In article <csw1rlr@rpi.edu>, kai@unix.cie.rpi.edu (Kai Yang) writes:
|>.............I wonder whether such culture can have
|> negative effects on working ethics of Romanian people. I mean, if
|> people spend too much time and energy in talking and enjoying, can
|> they work hard and seriously?
Why not? I don't think there is any connection between having fun and
hard work. There are examples that illustrate all the combinations, 
including the worst case i.e. humorless+inefficient.

-- 
Mihai Dorobantu
From: mariusf@sisters.cs.uoregon.edu (Marius Farkas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Re: Romanian humor
Date: 20 Nov 92 20:52:30 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon Computer and Information Sciences Dept.

In article <1992Nov18.163649.8493@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il> jhsegal@wiscon.weizmann.ac.il (Livian) writes:
>In article <csw1rlr@rpi.edu> kai@unix.cie.rpi.edu (Kai Yang) writes:
>>I lived in Romania for a while. It seems to me that Romanian enjoy
>>jokes (banc) and humors more that people from most other countries. It
>>is also my impression that Romanians live quite happily even though
>>they are not materially rich. I wonder whether such culture can have
>>negative effects on working ethics of Romanian people. I mean, if
>>people spend too much time and energy in talking and enjoying, can
>>they work hard and seriously?
>
>No,and they don't!
>The fact that the Romanians spend a hell of a lot of time for nothing,
>allways looking for "easy money" without work is well known.It is not so
>correct to tell
>it about ALL the Romanians since I am sure that there are Romanians who work
>hard for their living,but a big majority allways looks for business,triks,
>and ....roberry...
>Again:not ALL of them.

>P.S.:This is not prejudice.I lived there.

I hope that my understanding of your PS is correct, i.e. you only have lived 
in Romania for a while and are not of Romanian descent... Even if that is the 
case, I think that you are misogynist, to say the least!  Anybody who labels an
entire nation as "a bunch of robbers" and than declares that he is not 
prejudicial must be in a weird state of mind!  

Greetings to all Romanians!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
From: msirbu@next5.cs.umr.edu (Mihai Sirbu)
Subject: Moldova/Romania News from RFE/RL, 11/23/92
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 00:07:44 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri-Rolla, Missouri's Technological University

To subscribe to the RFE/RL daily bulletin send e-mail to     
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RFE/RL Daily Report                 No. 225, 23 November 1992

NEW GOVERNMENT TAKES OFFICE IN ROMANIA.  On 20 November President
Ion Iliescu swore in Romania's new government. Radio Bucharest
reports that Prime Minister Nicolae Vacaroiu pledges to continue
reforms "in a coherent way." Iliescu wished the ministers success in
what he described as their "tough task" to overcome the present
difficulties. Vacaroiu's cabinet, which was confirmed by Parliament
on 19 November by a 260 to 203 vote, consists of 22 ministers, of
whom half are members of the Democratic National Salvation Front,
the strongest party in the legislature. The other half--including
the premier--say they are independent.  Several ministers served in
the regime of Nicolae Ceausescu. (Dan Ionescu, RFE/RL, Inc.)

ILIESCU TO VISIT FRANCE ON 24 NOVEMBER.  Radio Bucharest announced
on 21 November that Romania's reelected President Ion Iliescu will
go to Paris on 24 November to meet French President Frangois
Mitterrand. No details were provided. (Dan Ionescu, RFE/RL, Inc.)

ILIESCU, VACAROIU ATTEND CEAUSESCU-STYLE FESTIVITIES. Radio
Bucharest reported on 22 November that President Iliescu, Premier
Vacaroiu and other officials attended festivities marking the 1890th
anniversary of a battle between Romans and Geto-Dacians (an ancient
local population). The event took place at Adamclisi, southern
Dobruja. In his address, Iliescu hailed the "permanence and
continuity" of the Romanian people in the region and described a
Roman monument commemorating the battle as a symbol of "our
legitimacy in a Europe divided and full of contradictions." The
pageantry was strikingly reminiscent of the peculiar 2,050th
anniversary of the "first centralized and independent Dacian state,"
staged under Ceausescu in 1980. (Dan Ionescu, RFE/RL, Inc.)

--
The RFE/RL Daily Report is produced by the RFE/RL Research
Institute (a division of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, Inc.)
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Copyright 1992, RFE/RL, Inc. All rights reserved.
jhsegal
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Re: Romanian humor
From: jhsegal@wiscon.weizmann.ac.il (Livian)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:36:49 GMT
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Computation Center

In article <csw1rlr@rpi.edu> kai@unix.cie.rpi.edu (Kai Yang) writes:
>I lived in Romania for a while. It seems to me that Romanian enjoy
>jokes (banc) and humors more that people from most other countries. It
>is also my impression that Romanians live quite happily even though
>they are not materially rich. I wonder whether such culture can have
>negative effects on working ethics of Romanian people. I mean, if
>people spend too much time and energy in talking and enjoying, can
>they work hard and seriously?

No,and they don't!
The fact that the Romanians spend a hell of a lot of time for nothing,
allways looking for "easy money" without work is well known.It is not so
correct to tell
it about ALL the Romanians since I am sure that there are Romanians who work
hard for their living,but a big majority allways looks for business,triks,
and ....roberry...
Again:not ALL of them.
                                   ___
                                  (o o)
 ------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------------------------------
  __     __  __    ___ __     _     ___   __
    |      |   \     /   |     \       \    | VM/CMS:
    |      |    \   /    |    _ \       \   | JHSEGALL @ Weizmann.weizmann.ac.il
    |___   |       /     |    _  \    |  \  | UNIX:
        |  |      /      |   /    \   |     |  JHSEGAL  @ Wiscon.weizmann.ac.il
P.S.:This is not prejudice.I lived there.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
From: mihai@nada.kth.se (Mihai Dorobantu)
Subject: Re: Romanian humor
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 09:34:58 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.205230.7960@cs.uoregon.edu>, mariusf@sisters.cs.uoregon.edu (Marius Farkas) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov18.163649.8493@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il> jhsegal@wiscon.weizmann.ac.il (Livian) writes:
|> >[.....] 
|> >P.S.:This is not prejudice.I lived there.
|> I hope that my understanding of your PS is correct, i.e. you only have lived 
|> in Romania for a while and are not of Romanian descent... Even if that is the
                              ****************************
|> case, I think that you are misogynist, to say the least!  Anybody who labels an
|> entire nation as "a bunch of robbers" and than declares that he is not 
|> prejudicial must be in a weird state of mind!  
|> 
|> Greetings to all Romanians!

Interesting... I wonder how Marius Farkas deduces (from the PS) that Livian is
*not of Romanian descent*. And for that matter, who cares about someone's
descent? (On the other hand, the VCT bunch do care) Perhaps we should divide
the newsgroup into subgroups according to the purity of our Romanian descent.
I suggest "soc.culture.rrrrromanian" to be the 100% group, which will also
hold the priviledge of absolute truth. We could ask Marius Farkas to send us
a quiz and then grade our *Romanian descent* from our answers. If a sentance like
"I lived there." is so revealling to him, you may imagine what he'll find
from a questionnaire!
-- 
Mihai Dorobantu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
From: kai@unix.cie.rpi.edu (Kai Yang)
Subject: Re: Romanians and capitalism
Organization: CIE, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 06:31:36 GMT

In article <rjh2.722319037@crux1.cit.cornell.edu> rjh2@crux1.cit.cornell.edu (Radu Hambasan) writes:
>that. My cousin had installed a few rented video poker machines in some local
>bars and was already doubling an engineer's salary. The inventiveness all

A friend of mine owns a company (assembling and distributing PCs,
video game machines with the latest software, and other electronic
toys) in U.S. He asked me about business opportunities in Romania
and Eastern Europe. Since I have left Romania for many years, I can
not give him an answer. Does anyone have an answer and know about business
partners who my friend can contact? Thank you in advance.
From: mihai@sep.Stanford.EDU (Alexander Mihai Popovici)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Re: Romanian humor
Date: 20 Nov 1992 19:16:18 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

In article <1992Nov18.163649.8493@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il>, jhsegal@wiscon.weizmann.ac.il (Livian) writes:
|> The fact that the Romanians spend a hell of a lot of time for nothing,
|> allways looking for "easy money" without work is well known.It is not so
|> correct to tell
|> it about ALL the Romanians since I am sure that there are Romanians who work
|> hard for their living,but a big majority allways looks for business,triks,
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> and ....roberry...

Wow,
And to think I lived there for so long and missed all these oportunities...
I even couldn't do as well as the "BIG MAJORITY."  Well, maybe I was with
the SMALL MAJORITY.  
Livian, send us your adress and I'll try to
make up for all these lost robberies... :-)  like a real Romanian.

Cheers
MIhai
From: hancu@crim.ca (Marius Hancu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: X Windows for Romania - need help
Summary: Need help for sending X windows to Romania
Keywords: windows, unix, X, Romania
Date: 22 Nov 92 16:13:46 GMT
Organization: CRIM

Hi:

In our current effort to send free unix components to Romania, we
currently need help in the area of X windows. As you know, X windows
is the copyright of the X consortium of MIT, but is free. Anyone can
make copies of it and use it, while mentioning the copyright.

What we intend to send is:
-free X windows documentation (this requires ftp, printing and
shipping of a single major .ps file)
-the main distribution X11R5 from mit (this requires ftp, recording
and shipping of around 32 diskettes)
-the contributed distribution of MIT (same, around 60 diskettes)

As you realize, this is a considerable effort, so I intend to divide
the job between several volunteers.

Please contact me only if you want to do the job.

Thank you. Multumesc.
-- 
Marius Hancu, Parallel Architectures Group 
Centre de Recherche Informatique de Montreal (CRIM)
3744, Jean-Brillant, Bureau 500, Montreal, Quebec H3T 1P1, Canada 
phone: (514) 340-5907, fax: 514-340-5777, email: hancu@crim.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian