From: mbs@zycor.lgc.com (Matt Shostak)
Subject: Re: Excessive Celebration Penalty
Organization: Landmark/Zycor   Austin, Texas
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 12:55:40 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.000614.16218@spss.com> nichols@spss.com (David Nichols) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.143609.14103@lgc.com> mbs@zycor.lgc.com (Matt Shostak) writes:
>>In article <gf1Q5tO00iV384SUkn@andrew.cmu.edu> wm1o+@andrew.cmu.edu (William Karamo Motley) writes:
>>>Who saw that Notre Dame game today?  I think that the NCAA should either
>>>be much, much more lenient when they call that excessive celebration
>>>penalty, or get rid of that call completely.  When you win in the type
>>>of manner Notre Dame did today, you have every right to go beserk and
>>>act bananas.  For Christ's sake, they're college kids.  Even pros
>>>celebrate.  Remember when the Colts beat the Dolphins this year?  
>>>
>>>Will
>>
>>An absolutely ludicrous call by the refs.  It almost seemed like they
>>wanted to give Penn State the advantage.  After Paterno complained in 
>>the first quarter, did they call any other penalties on PSU?  Were there
>>any holding calls?
>>
>>
>
>Oh please. That penalty was more than deserved. It took them several
>minutes to clear the field. I was waiting for them to call a penalty
>after the TD celebration, which they easily could have done. That would
>have made the 2 point conversion or PAT from the 18. There is no team
                                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>with less reason to complain about officiating than Notre Dame.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>--
> David Nichols        Senior Statistical Support Specialist         SPSS, Inc.
> Phone: (312) 329-3684     Internet:  nichols@spss.com     Fax: (312) 329-3657
>*******************************************************************************
> Any correlation between my views and those of SPSS is strictly due to chance.

Oh, please.  Don't get me started on this.  Your comment appeared reasonable
until I read this sentence.  Any
Notre Dame fan will tell you that ND has gotten the benefit of many bad
calls, but they also have many go against them.  In fact, I think refs
call games differently when ND is playing.  They rarely call certain penalties
against Irish opponents, and could it be that
subconsciously they are concerned about making calls in ND's favor, and
therefore often bend too far the other way?  Again and again over the last
several years I have seen blatant holds against the Irish go uncalled.
This is less obvious than a bad call on a fumble or sideline call late in
the game that the networks show over and over on replay, but it can still
have a huge impact on the game.  Overall, I think the officiating over the
(very) long term comes out about even (although I do think the refs should
call at least the blatant holds by ND's opponents).

Do you really think the refs would have made the same call in Saturday's
game if the roles were reversed, and the game were at Penn State?  I wonder.


-- 
Matthew B. Shostak              Landmark/Zycor
mbs@zycor.lgc.com               (512) 292-2357
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college