HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hde+@cs.cmu.edu (Herbert Enderton)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Hell Peacock
Date: 12 Oct 92 02:44:12 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1ba8e7INNpch@agate.berkeley.edu> sfd@soda.berkeley.edu (Scott Drellishak) writes:
>
>Out of curiosity, is there anyone out there who thinks I have a point?
>So far, all I've seen is disagreement, and I find this discouraging.

Until reading this paragraph I assumed that Scott was in his usual
flame-baiting mode.

I think Scott might have a point, but I'm not sure what it is.  It could
be one or more of the following:

(1) The game designers did not want such prevalent ogging.  So if ogging
is indeed a very useful tactic (useful in terms of winning the game), then
the game should be redesigned to make ogging less useful.  [debatable]

(2) Regardless of how useful ogging is, we server-gods should tend to avoid
rewarding oggers via the rank system.  In particular, the 0.8 defense threshold
is a good idea.  [i disagree; rank should correlate with game-winning ability,
and it seems correlate better when the defense threshold is removed]

(3) Successful ogging (e.g. mutual death with a enemy carrier) is less
useful than players like Hector and Akira would have us believe.
[i don't know, it seems awfully useful to me]

(4) Dogfighting skills are more important than such players profess.
[agreed, in that ability to dodge torps is paramount in all aspects of play
(including ogging) and accuracy with weapons is important too.]

(5) Dogfighting is more useful than such players profess.  E.g. time you
spend dogfighting during an INL game is likely to help your team a lot.
[i disagree UNLESS one includes goals such as protecting a teammate or
driving defenders off a planet in the scope of `dogfighting']

(6) Ogging is easy, in the sense that between equally good players
in most typical game situations the ogg succeeds.  [hard to define this
well enough to debate; personally most of my oggs fail, but that's
probably because i'm usually willing to ogg if i estimate my chance
of success is better than 20%]

(7) Ogging is easy, in the sense that it's easier to learn to og well
than to learn to dogfight well.  [i am dubious]

  -- Red Shirt
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Thu,  8 Oct 1992 09:43:25 -0400 
From: Court Demas <court+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: ENPN Coaches' Poll! (After Game 1)
	<1b10chINNa9f@agate.berkeley.edu>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 8-Oct-92 Re: ENPN Coaches' Poll!
(A.. Tom Holub@soda.berkeley. (808)

> Yes, one of those was mine; dunno who was the other.  And yes, I feel
> we deserve it; I think the Bears match up with Side Salad all the
> way down the line, and that we can beat you if we play as well as I
> know we can.  It should be a good game, and while I wish it was home,
> I'm not crushed.  We can win.

Prepare to be SMACKED!  
haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaryouken!


> Which either guarantees you the #1 spot, or you lose.  We'll see.
>  -Mojo

SIDE SALAD!!!!!

-feta

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: books@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu (Roger Books)
Subject: Re: Ogging/bombing/dogfighting
Organization: FSU nuclear physics
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 13:50:14 GMT

In article <Bw0xI4.7E.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:
>Benjamin T Dehner writes
>
>Kills are easy to get.  You can always "scum" them.  For example, kick-ass  
>dogfighter number 1 is fighting kick-ass dogfighter number 2.  They are  
>both fueless and damaged.  Twink kill scummer fires all his fuel to hit  
>dogfighter number 2 with a torp and kill him...amazing but twink kill  
>scummer has a kill...even tho he couldn't bit the broad side of a  
>barn...oops....my heritage sticking through again.
>

So what happens when your team has no kick-ass dogfighter number 1 and the
other team does?  I'm tired of listening to all this "dogfighting is
not important" BS from people who have become so good at it it's second
nature.  I keep hearing these Flt. Captian+ people tell me, "I can't (hate)
to dogfight" and no-one on my team can hit(ogg) them while they carry.  Then 
they turn around, need a kill, pick just about anyone Cdr or under and kill 
them at will.  Or they just wait for someone to kill them and come after 
them and kill the attacker.  This is dogfighting.

>> 	I agree that dogfighting is not all-important, nor even most
>> important, but I would put it on an equal footing with bombing and  
>ogging.
>
>Then you are clueless.  Not a flame, but a fact.
>
>> Cthulhu

Sherlock
books@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu

Clueless:  Someone who spends a Friday Night or Saturday in the computer
	   lab playing Netrek.  (I fit in this group, but only when my
	   grad student fiancee is working.)
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 08:49:23 -0400 
From: Tomato Boy <stimpy+@cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Iron Man Netrekkers
	<Bvvwwo.MCn.1@cs.cmu.edu> <8epbXj_00VoqI37kdz@andrew.cmu.edu>

The best all around player I ever saw had to be Quar. He'd take all
your planets while ogging the shit out of you and bombing your armies.
And he did almost all of it in a cruiser. Then, once in a while, he'd
take out a base and ram it down your throat. He was truly awesome.
He didn't do much scout bombing, though.

Balton is a great base and a great scout, but not much of an ogger.
The best current all around player is probably Spaceace, but he
doesn't bring out the base much anymore.
There aren't many people who can do ALL roles well. I myself am
quite a poor scout bomber. 

--Rick
"Bronco Netrek Server. You will never find a more wretched hive of
scum and villainy." -- Admiral Kenobi (aka Terence Chang)
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (FreeKill)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: INL Strategy: Is Ori and Kli playable?
Date: 7 Oct 92 22:26:45 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <BvrrtA.BvM.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:

>Oddly enough, i've always felt the feds had an advantage in a front line  
>war.  The horsemen of last year always played feds (if we could) because  
>we felt it had the advantage.  

To support the argument, perhaps a reminder that UPenn (probably comparable
to ISU today) played a fairly even game against the Horsemen last year, and
we had the advantage of being feds...  Of course, we also had ensign and
Warlock and Font replacing some of the weaker players.  And Rob had to leave
midway thru the game.

Kli's definitely have a crummy setup against the Roms.  A Kli-Ori game
may be fair.

The nice thing about a fed-rom game is that you almost always see it on
pick-up games.  The familiarity of exactly how long it takes to get from
planet to planet helps.

Personally, I've never ruled out picking a certain race due to solely planet
positions.  Normally, the resource placement seems to make a fed-rom game
seem like a logical choice.

Brian
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Ok you scum
Date: 14 Oct 92 06:43:18 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <seqt1f200VB1Q3yFVJ@andrew.cmu.edu> Kevin Michael Bernatz <kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
)Grrr,
)	All I have to say is that it surprises me to know end how many people
)get so worked up over something so god damn stupid.  Who the fuck cares
)if I took 4th space.. it's not like I do it every time I play.  

It may not be like you do it every time you play, but it *is* like
every time there's an almost-LPS on bronco someone is doing it.  3 of
the last 4 games I've been in on bronco have been fourth-space games,
and I wasn't even in the game you were in (and the other game had no
CMU players).  It's an epidemic.

Not only is it really cheap, it keeps new players from learning the 
real meat of the game (coordinating on taking the core worlds, and
phaserlocking cloakers).  And what pisses people off is that not only
do good players *do* it, they recommend it as a valid strategy on
rec.games.netrek.
 -Mojo
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney)
Subject: Is there a Netrek for the DEC VAXstation 3100?
Organization: California State University Sacramento
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 00:54:29 GMT


I was wondering: 

Is there a netrek version for the DEC VAXstation 3100? 

I'd like to know where to get it so I can install it.

Thanks in advance.

=============================================================================
-----Steve Chaney: Founder, Borg Operating Space Systems, Revision 2.0-------
	           The B.O.S.S. does not speak for CSUS. 
Organization: Sophomore, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Wed,  7 Oct 1992 15:15:38 -0400 
From: "John O. Kim" <jk5x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Starbasing was [Re: I've lost all respect for Rob]
	<91922@netnews.upenn.edu>


Freekill says:
>Players you didn't mention:
>Yea Boy - his phaser locking ability keeps him very alive.  More in the
>Tortoise category, i.e. can survive, but not very helpful in a base.

	I may not be awesome base but consider myself a helpful one doing what
helpful bases do i.e  wound ships for free kills and help escort
frontline planet takes.  I played a base yesterday and I got
smashed.....I guess I just consider myself[as do most people] that I
more useful in a real ship since a haven't been basing as much as I once
had.

>Stilleto - saw him this weekend.  I was very impressed.  Could have been an
>isolated incident of greatness, but I doubt it.

	Greg got better over the summer..[HE thou, played WAY too much. :)]

>To be truthful, there are actually few bases (on bronco) who are good that
>aren't from CMU.  In a base, it helps a LOT not to be lagged.  If you don't
>believe it, then just ask yourself why you rarely see CMU players basing
>on bigdog, and also rarely see berkeley base players on bronco.

>The only non-CMU/non-Berkeley players I've seen base well are Wreck, Quovadis,
>and Ged.  All 3 are very good at surviving, and pretty decent at helping
>teammates.

Other good bases:
	Crack Pot
	Infidel
	NSX
	BECK{But he HATES it]
	ray

Yea Boy!!!!!
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (FreeKill)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Sun Tzu's Guide to Taking 4th Space
Date: 15 Oct 92 03:00:07 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <0er=wnK00Vp84MCkpO@andrew.cmu.edu> kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu (Kevin Michael Bernatz) writes:

Before I totally lose face.
A) I woulda ogged you, but my lag was horrible that night.  It seemed to
   make more sense to sit near the planet.
B) As you came to take the planet, I had to let a friend into our lab (which
   is locked).  I only got a chance to fire at you a couple seconds before
   you were near the planet.
C) This is still no excuse for letting you take the planet.  
D) Your escort did a decent job of moving me away from the planet.  However,
   if I was paying more attention, your escort woulda been considered weak.

Brian
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: danny@cs.su.oz.au (Danny)
Subject: Re: Illuminatus News
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 04:37:38 GMT

In article <oeoUSmm00VB4I3B18s@andrew.cmu.edu> Greg K Chung <gc2n+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>team, then so be it.  If that means making sure that no teams from
>outside the US can join and upset up, then so be it (Even though this
>failed in council, we kept the teams themselves from joining.).

Australia's decision not to enter an INL team had nothing to do with anything
you did.  Some members of the (potential) team were worried about bringing
the wrath of our network controllers on our head and losing our ability to
play intra-Australia netrek, let alone OS.  Others were unwilling to commit 
themselves to playing 6 games (at that point it looked like there would be 
6 games in the season).

Danny - danny/Death/ICMP Redirect
From: isae@IASTATE.EDU (ISU Boy !!!!!)
Subject: Re: INL: Possible server bug.
Reply-To: isae@IASTATE.EDU (ISU Boy !!!!!)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:25:35 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.204250.493@dsd.es.com>, rjones@dsd.es.com (Ray Jones -
Perp) writes:
> In article <1992Oct13.145555.7438@fs7.ece.cmu.edu>, george@taca.ece.cmu.edu
(George Cebulka) writes:
> >	4) xtkill did not free up the slots, when we tried to eject players.
> 
> xtkill will have the wrong shared memory size...  I don't know if
> that's it, but it might be.
> 

  Looks like it. I guess I am going to modify the tools from final bronco
source
  so it will have the right shared memory size as INL server uses.
  I will put them sometime on tbird.

> >George Cebulka, ECE Facilities
> 
> -- 
>                                           rjones@dsd.es.com


-Rony
 isae@IASTATE.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: tsang@cs.washington.edu (Donald Tsang)
Subject: Re: Netrek in an arcade?
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 21:41:59 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.175015.28648@dsd.es.com> rjones@dsd.es.com writes:
>
>This is how I would do it, if I could:
>
>The system would be 16 local terminals, plus random viewing terminals
>showing the galactic map, along with each local map.  Each team would
>be in a seperate room, so no need for a messaging system beyond the
>informational messages and maybe the ALL board.  There are rooms for
>pre-game planning and a basic tutorial for newbies, explaining both
>the tactical and strategic aspects of the game.  Games are recorded,
>possibly even archived (if they are willing to pay for the tape, of
>course :) And can be reviewd afterwards.  Recording can just be a VCR
>tape of the viewing monitor(s).  Team Ranking systems could be kept,
>local championships held, etc etc.

You forgot the BIG difference that a large-scale hardware setup could
grant: co-piloting!

Imagine: small rooms.  maybe 12x8.  Five chairs in each of these rooms,
with different controls in each one.  The center (Captain's) chair would
be able to control everything, while the rest would have matching
controls to maneuver, or lock/fire weapons, or attempt system repairs,
or get a "wee bit more power from the engines"...

One large projection TV as the "main viewscreen", smaller terminal
screens for other stuff.  3-D.  Bigger rooms for bigger ships (multiple
people on phaser control, etc).  Perhaps just one or two people in a
"Scout" location.  'twould be cheaper for the arcade, and require less
room.  Each room could be set up to resemble the bridge of a ship of
the appropriate race/team.  This could also bring in all the Trekkies
(err, Trekkers?)

Set up a large computer at some central location as a server, and lease
some lines dedicated solely to this game.  Two lines per "ship": one
for computer vital information, the other for actual communications
(including a videophone system).  Most of the time, you can "scrimmage"
using VR-within-a-VR (battling with your own "teammates"), while you
tear through warpspace trying to get somewhere.  The real hard-cores
will have reserved times for "real combat", where, if you die, your
character "really dies".  Huge campaign setups, with a possibility
of hundreds of ships in a battle.

Okay, so maybe I'm dreaming (having a nightmare?)...


-- 
Donald Tsang                    "Ho!  Haha!  Guard!  Turn!  Parry!  Dodge!
tsang@june.cs.washington.edu     Spin!  Ha!  Thrust!"
..!uw-beaver!june!tsang                       -- Robin Hood Daffy
From: mikey@eukanuba.wpd.sgi.com (Mike Yang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Blessed borgs?  Check out the SGI client!!!
Date: 14 Oct 92 23:49:08 GMT
Reply-To: mikey@sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <1992Oct14.193831.8927@netcom.com>, genie@netcom.com (Gene Choi) writes:
|> You think visible tractors are bad?  You should go check out
|> the blessed SGI client.  It even shows other people tractoring
|> your ass!

The SGI client is not a blessed borg.  It incorporates all the random
client sources that were floating around (galaxy client, bronco client,
UDP client, etc.).  Visible tractors is nothing new.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                 Mike Yang        Silicon Graphics, Inc.
               mikey@sgi.com           415/390-1786
From: botelle@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Justin Botelle)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Hell Peacock
Date: 10 Oct 92 18:45:30 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <AepWOFC00Vp303dXIl@andrew.cmu.edu) nm0w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Nanci Ann Miller) writes:
)
)I think that the "mod" that is being referred to here is the defense
)criterion for rank.  For a long time on bezier you needed to have a minimum
)defense of .8 to gain rank.  Ogging is not only an effective tactic, but
)also a good way to increase stats (5*armies helps a lot).  However, with a
)defense criterion, people are less willing to ogg, especially if they are
)worried about rank at all.  Granted, rank isn't supposed to mean anything,
)but then, that's only in theory.

What I did to make Commander was sit cloaked in 3rd space for an hour.  Gotta
love Scott.

I do think there should be a defense criterion for rank, though.  It's just
that you would need a MAXIMUM of .8 to go beyond, say, Captain.. (this
should cut down on scumming quite a bit)

)Nanci

Justin
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: exodus@IASTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: Laggu and the Playoffs (surprised?)
Reply-To: exodus@IASTATE.EDU
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 02:39:13 GMT





  Hmmmmmmm.........we have a very good chance of going 3-1........will that


be good enough to make the playoffs? I haven't a clue how it works.




					Exodus
From: tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Timothy C. Worsley)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Rank
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:06:50 GMT
	<93115@netnews.upenn.edu>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 14-Oct-92 Re: Rank
FreeKill@eniac.seas.upen (902)

> Finally, I've never seen people get serious rank at the relatively clueless
> hours that didn't deserve the rank to begin with.


C is for Cookie.  That's good enough for me.

ZZnew guy
From: mdm@stegosaur.cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Ogging/bombing/dogfighting
Date: 13 Oct 92 01:13:49 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science

In article <Bw19vx.GJL.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:
>
>IAState is improving, but you have a lot to learn, still.
>
	
	Robby baby, waz with you?  You used to be nice, now
yer reminding me of Justin.  You can throw in nice obligatory
comments like "IAState is improving" but its just a watered down
Justin insult.... we all can see it.

	I ain't sayin' you ain't right, but I am sayin' you coulda put
it better.  Most folks I expect to take this sort of stance (Hi
Justin, Hi Scott D., Hi Mojo, Hi <misc. CMU clue>) but you've always
been reasonable and good and full of sugar and spice and everything
nice..... don't throw that all away.....  If you ain't nice no more,
who the hell is gonna be?  When people ask if someone with over 1000
DI can actually be a nice person, we'll haveta turn to wreck or
ZZNewguy, and we all know what losers they are so everyone will just
assume that being nice gets you no-where and everyone will start
worshiping MUCUS and the game will go to shit, and it will all be your
fault, because you were a nice guy with over 1000 DI, you weren't a
loser, and you turned to the dark side.  Yes, that's right, I said the
dark side.  It's not too late to turn back, Rob, please for the game's
sake... be nice again!  Turn the other cheek, do unto others, don't
covet your neighbor's wife, etc.... ad nausium.... FOR US!!!!!

 	-Michael (Grammer - pfah - who needs it.....)
-- 
|Michael Delbert Moore |  Home : (614) 471-1937  Office : (614) 292-7161  |
|OSU Student Programmer|--------------------------------------------------|
|Ohio State CIS Major  |     Calories consumed for a 150 pound person     |
|mdm@cis.ohio-state.edu|       Sitting : 100/hour, Typing : 110/hour      |
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 04:38:47 -0400 
From: Seth Malcolm Redmore <sr2s+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Double logins


Me and my little brother (not little anymore, he's got
an inch on me now :) ) were playing trek last semester,
using my account.  So, some butthead decided to make a big
deal out of it...

that was when my little bro' (Josh) got his first lesson in ogging,
(with a specialty in coordiated ogging )

hehehehe...

Shut that guy up quick... he musta either thought I had superhuma
n reflexes, or finally realized the truth...

Speaking of which... How many people have tried running two
netrek chars at the same time?  It makes for an  interesting
experience.  I tried it with two separate workstations,
by telnetting to one and starting up the 2nd netrek from there,
but with the display on the same scrren as the first.  I learned that
as long as ms my two ships stayed on the same local screen, i was
generally o.k., when they got separated, it was like the two halves
of my brain were trying to pull each other apart :) .

This brings me to another idea I have pondered.  Two-mouse netrek.
This wouldn't catch on as well as reg. netrek, for the obvious
lack of equipment, but I think it would be cool.  You could
access most of the normal commands through "chording" of the mouse buttons.
(for the chording (fnord) impaired = chording means to hold down
more than one button at once...)  And, with two mice, one could have
a separate recticle for weapons, and for steering. Cool, no?

Speaking of which... can one use Xmodmap to map a key to a
mouse button?  I could check, but I'm not near an x-term...
If someone happens to know the answer off the top 'o their head, I'd like to
know...  I wanna map det to the left mouse button, thereby freeing up
the number 8 for use as a speed. :)
In case you're curioous, I have space mapped to cloak... I always
panic (well, not quite panic, but definatly have an anxiety attack)
every time I come out of cloak, so I like to have it mapped to a
big button that I can't miss...

--Seth

drpepper
(thats cpt.  drpepper to you! (and he even made flt. cap. on rwd. !))

even Mr. Wizard was impressed by my planets ratio...
From: jive@spanky.ssc.gov (Jim Ivey)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: TWNN at ISU
Date: 16 Oct 92 22:29:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: spanky.JIVE.92Oct16162947
Organization: SSC Laboratory, Dallas, TX


> To TWNN : Whom should I send the full logfile?
> PS: Anyone played the game is welcomed to give his opinions about this
> game. :) 

     I'd just like to say that iastate played well.  I was impressed by
their ability and know that they have the potential to beat good teams once
they get more practice working together as a team.

     I don't know who was MVP for the Feds, but everyone remarked afterward
that F3 (Exodus) was dangerous.

     Oh, and to whatever pussy team it was that said they used borgs..  you
just suck:)

     Jim / FillInTheGenocide