HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: smorris@sumax.seattleu.edu (Steven A. Morris)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: New Corolla
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:47:14 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Addiction Studies Program, Seattle University

I stopped by the Toyota dealer and glanced at the new Corolla.  Here
are my thoughts (and I have owned five or so Corollas, and currently
have an 89 wagon):

It seems that all of the Japanese cars are moving upscale, the CAMRY
is larger and now the Corolla is a bit larger and considerably more
costly.  The MSRP on one wagon --auto, airbag is standard-- with
option ABS and air conditioning was over 17K!  This WAS NOT THE LE
model, nor did it have a sunroof or roof rack!  The Toyota will
probably be available at discount, but it seems that the SATURN WAGON
will be a better deal even at their full list price.

The Corolla now has a 115HP 1.8l DOHC 4cyl engine (110 HP in Calif)
which is a nice boost, especially from the 95 HP model sold in 1989
with a carb.

1993 will certainly be the year of sticker shock, now with cars having
AIRBAGS, etc and moving upscale the under 10K car may be nearly
extinct.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: ABANKS1@ua1vm.ua.edu (Al Banks)
Subject: ***Info on '89 Buick Riveria wanted***
Organization: The University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 18:04:01 GMT

     I will soon have to replace a car, and have been looking at an '89
Riveria (Buick) with 25,000 on it...I know the family, and have for some
time, so I know the car is well maintained.  Only in-town travel, no long trips
My questions are:
       1. How have other '89 Riverias done, in your experience/hearsay?
       2. What would be a good price for this car?
       3. Has anyone added a cd player/changer to a Riveria?
          If so, how is that done, and is it a job for an
          ok installer (me)?
 
   Thanks--Respond to the net, or to me personally (put car or something in the
subject line so I won't think its junk mail) and I'll post findings to the list
from the personal responses.   -Al
 
 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
 Al Banks (abanks1@ua1vm.ua.edu)        The University Of Alabama     
  P. O. Box 8542                           Tuscaloosa, Alabama        
  Tuscaloosa, Alabama USA 35486                                       
  Telephone: (205) 556-2508                    Roll Tide!!            
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Duty is the sublimest word in our language. Do your duty in all things.
You cannot do more.  You should never wish to do less.                 
                                           -Robert E. Lee              
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Xref: sparky rec.autos:22093 rec.autos.tech:12657
From: thomas@bit.UUCP (Thomas Walter)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: DATSUN ROADSTER mailing list - Monthly Posting
Keywords: DATSUN Roadster Fairlady Sports
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:18:47 GMT
Organization: BIT, Portland, OR


Monthly posting regarding the DATSUN ROADSTER MAILING LIST.

If you own, or are thinking about buying, a Fairlady, 1600,2000 
Datsun Roadster, join the mailing list! We are a group of Datsun
roadster owners/enthusiast who share technical, restoration,
and ownership information.

To join, or ask, about the mailing list, contact:

		datsun-roadsters-request@hoosier.cs.utah.edu
					         ^^ (new as of June 92)
To post to all on the list:

		datsun-roadsters@hoosier.cs.utah.edu
				         ^^ (new as of June 92)

Cheers,

Thomas Walter			Internet:  bit!thomas@cse.ogi.edu
Beaverton, Oregon		(punt it)  thomas%bit@cse.ogi.edu
'67 & '68 2000 owner
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: minor@rtsg.mot.com (Kevin Minor)
Subject: Re: Saturn, Honda, and Japan
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 22:46:41 GMT

crepeau@rtsg.mot.com (Daniel B. Crepeau) writes:

|>>I mean I didn't know until recently that the US
|>>car manufacturers made no effort to conform the steering wheel for export
|>>to Japan. 


|>     Two reasons :
|>            First : US car maker were in retreat trying to protect
|>                    their home Market.

|>			Second : US makers saw that the Japanese market was truly closed.
|>                     Europeans had been shipping right hand steering cars
|>                     for years with virtually no market share. No access to
|>                     dealers there...dealers were penaltized if they sold
|>                     cars of a competitors...etc.


|>                    Jeep announced a $20 million investment to provide 
|>                    right hand steering. Not CHEAP...without market access.
|>                    The Major Japanese manufacturers recently announced
|>                    that their dealers will be allowed to sell vehicles
|>                    of other manufacturers. 

I guess my point was if Honda is shipping more cars that the Big 3 
combined than the market is NOT closed. And how can American car companies
b*tch about Japan not buying their product when the steering wheel is
on the wrong side ? Yes, it is expensive but the Japanese paid the costs
to get the market...

Also some American cars are just simply overpriced... Why ? Well,
because they can be sold for that amount - at least that is what I was
told. So when people go and by the cheaper foriegn car, American companies
shouldn't complain. Speaking of Jeep, the grand limited is nearly one
third more expensive than all competitors. Is it 33% better ?
-- 
	/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\
	|	Kevin Minor	UUCP: ...uunet!mcdchg!motcid!minor	|
	|			Mail: minor@rtsg.mot.com		|
	\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: twong@civil.ubc.ca (Thomas Wong)
Subject: Re: Acura Integra vs. Ford Probe
Organization: Dept. of Civil Engineering, U.B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 05:28:39 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.190756.1749@scott.skidmore.edu> wwein@scott.skidmore.edu (warren wein) writes:
>
>Buy the Probe.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Warren Wein
>
>'83 Audi 5000s: sport sedan from hell!!!
>'86 Toyota MR2: a real sports car, fun! fun! and more FUN!
>'90 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX: "Atomic M&M"  Is this thing glued to the
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>                                          road? 	
>
>" Insurance in Brooklyn costs how much ?! "
>
>e-mail: wwein@skidmore.edu
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Just to throw a curve into this thread....
I say buy the Eclipse GSX, then the Probe GT, MX-6.... :)
... ship load of other cars.... then maybe the Integra GS-R.

But then again, if you want a sedan (and don't care that the Integra
has been due for a redesign for the last 3 years or more)(this car is
old), then the Integra might be at the top of your list. But even then,
I'd pick the new Mazda MX-6 over the Integra. No contest. This segment
of the market has so many contenders nowadays, Acura better come out
with a new model soon before they are too far out of the game. IMHO.

Thomas.

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: aefron@cornerstone.com (Andrew Efron)
Subject: Re: Looking for a recommendation on bug and tar removers
Reply-To: aefron@cornerstone.com (Andrew Efron)
Organization: Cornerstone Research, Cambridge, Mass.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:31:49 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.144142.26440@Princeton.EDU>, lrr@Princeton.EDU 
(Lawrence R. Rogers) writes:

> Hope this is the correct group.  I am looking for a recommendation on bug
> and tar removers, primarily bug removers.  Thanks.
> 
> 
>  =====   ======= =======	Larry Rogers
> =     =     =       =     	Manager, UNIX Systems
> =           =       =     	Princeton University
> =           =       =     	87 Prospect Street, Room 201
> =           =       =     	Princeton, NJ 08544
> =           =       =     	lrr@Princeton.EDU, princeton!lrr
> =     =     =       =     	Phone: 609-258-6483/6000
>  =====   =======    =     	FAX:   609-258-1069/3943

"Bug, Tar and Tree Sap Remover".  I'm pretty sure that's what it's called.  
It works great and wipes away completely, doesn't even seem to damage the 
wax. Should be available at auto parts stores as well as Target/Walmart type 
places.

Andy


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I didn't do it to make history.  You do something that you want to 
do or feel you have to do, because you like it and love it.  And if 
it turns out to be history, well, so what?"

			--Carroll Shelby, from "The Cobra-Ferrari Wars, 1963-1965"
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: GMs plan: New Credit Card (MC, then possibly VISA)
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:35:40 GMT
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.

In article <67869@hydra.gatech.EDU> ph279sw@prism.gatech.EDU (FR SIGING WEI) writes:
>The plastic to steel: 
>GM is to announce its new MasterCard: 
>	(if the news is precise)
>		No Annual Fee
>		10.6% interest rate
>	and
>		credit on GM new cars (forget the percentage).
>
>It should be in the news somewhere today.

Great! how often do you need to change the oil?

(actually at 10.6% interest rate it is better than our local credit
union, currently at 14.4% for regular, 12% gold). Could anyone post details?

Thanks,

Spiros




-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       striantafyll@kosds1.gm.hac.com
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: orr@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Ken Orr)
Subject: Re: Passive or Attack Belts
Organization: TI Semiconductor Process and Design Center
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:56:44 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.175809.4900@pictel.com> harling@pictel.com (Dan Harling) writes:
>In article <1992Sep8.185145.20384@cabot.balltown.cma.COM> welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep8.150708.17048@pmafire.inel.gov> russ@pmafire.inel.gov (Russ Brown) writes:
>>
>>>1. What are the safety disadvantages of the motorized seat belts?
>>
>>I.  the mount points are often not `geometrically suitable' for proper
>>shoulder harness fit
>>
>>II. the lap belts usually must be manually fastened; even long time,
>>habitual seat belt wears find themselves forgetting to fasten the lap
>>belts.

     I've been driving an Eclipse with motorized belts @ 2 1/2 years now. I 
always put the lap belt on. I cannot recall ever forgetting. I also inform 
my passengers to put thiers on also.. Not that I like the belts or anything,
I just think it's odd people would forget the other belt if they know it's 
there and what it's for. I've sort-of gotten used to mine, but they are a 
hassle entering and exiting the car- especially for passengers who are not used
to them. I wish I had the option of which type restraints were in my car. 


     "86 Ninja 600R"                               K.O.
  "DOD #306 AMA #615088"                       T.I. Dallas Tx.
    "Eclipse GS Turbo"                      Orr@epcot.spdc.ti.com
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: SHO Engine for Probe
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:03:55 GMT
Reply-To: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.  Engineering

In article <10055.74.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us>, david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us 
(David Bonds) writes:
> some of like having a high performance automobile 
> that's practical at the same time, plus not HAVING to see the mechanic on a 
> monthly basis for repairs is an added bonus!  ;-)

I'd like to have an SHO that didn't spend most of its time in the
mechanics garage.


Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com
SHO  GOZE
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: cshafai@eeserv.ee.umanitoba.ca (Cyrus Shafai)
Subject: Re: Why a Mercedes Benz 600SEL?
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:37:23 GMT

><WJT101@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:

>>I am just curious as to what advantages the 1992 Mercedes Benz 600SEL
>> has over the very similar (except the 12 cylinder engine) Mercedes Benz
>> 500SEL?  What makes the 600SEL $35,000+ more than the 500SEL?  It can't
>> possibly just be the bigger engine.  Heck, if someone wanted a 12 cylinder
>> car they could look to the BMW 850i, 750iL and the Jag XJS models for a lot
>> less money.

The 600 has more power.  400 Hp and over 400 lb-ft of torque.  Enough to propel
this 5300 pound car to 60 mph as fast as a ford mustang. 
This is with a 2.7:1 (I think) axle ratio.  Heck if they put a decent axle
ratio in it, like 3.3:1 the 600 would probably be faster than a vette.

The 600 is for buyers who have lots of money, to whom status is important, and
who want the prestige of an expensive (and also fast) car.


--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Cyrus Shafai                        <cshafai@ee.umanitoba.ca>
The Scanning Tunneling Microscopy Laboratory  -  STM/AFM Lab
University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada   ph. (204) 474-6007
From: david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (David Bonds) 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Ford Explorer Discussion
Date: 7 Sep 92 09:43:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Cutting Edge - Houston, TX - 713-466-1525
Reply-To: david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us (David Bonds) 

  >My brother recently June 1992 bought a Ford Explorer XLT.
  >He was wondering if anyone of else that owns the Explorer
  >has experience any type of problems.  1991 owners please

My parents got a 1992 Explorer awhile back, and the overdrive portion of
the transmission gave out completely after 3,000 miles.  Ford seemed quite
concerned, and the dealer's mechs. could not trace the problem.  They replaced
the entire transmission under warranty, while shipping the original one back 
to Ford HQ for analysis - have heard nothing back.  No other problems since
(other than it handles like a bus, but that is to be expected on a SUV ;-)).

- Dave Bonds 
- Internet : David.Bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us
---
 . KingQWK 2.00 .6 # 145 . "I'll be Bach." - Johann Sebastian Schwarzenegger
From: v060j5kb@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Mark W Olszowy)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Gordon Murray's "Rocket" design
Date: 12 Sep 92 20:42:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I was reading in this month's Automobile Ragazine about the new McLaren F1
when  I noticed this neat little auto on the bottom of the page named:
The Rocket.  Appearently this is a Gordon Murray design for the Light Car
Company of England that was a 2 seater (in tandem) powered by a Yamaha
FZR 1000 motorcycle.  Unfortunately these are about the only details they
gave on the automobile.  Well they also gave the price: $59,000.  UGH!!
But anyway, I'd like to pick the minds of you auto maniacs out there to
see if I can gat so more info. on it or where I can get some more info.
Any and all info would be glady appreciated since my search so far
has produced zip! 

Thanks in advanced.
Mark
From: rinehart@aramis.rutgers.edu (Mark J. Rinehart)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: 1970 Cougar X-R7 for sale
Keywords: 351 Clevand V-8
Date: 9 Sep 92 20:43:15 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <183412@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:

> In article <1992Sep3.010646.19073@octel.com> rajan@octel.com (Rajan Ranga) writes:
> >For sale 1970 Cougar X-R7
> >	1 owner
> >Price $8,000/o.b.o
>     Or you could just go to a dealer and buy a 1987-88 Cougar for
>     that kinda money....

Maybe, but the '70 XR-7 was a beautiful classic. The 87-88 model is
plain, butt-ugly..... 




Mark
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: khan@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Scott Coleman)
Subject: Re: 1970 Cougar X-R7 for sale
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 18:00:07 GMT
Keywords: 351 Clevand V-8

lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:

>In article <1992Sep3.010646.19073@octel.com> rajan@octel.com (Rajan Ranga) writes:
>>For sale 1970 Cougar X-R7
>>
>>Price $8,000/o.b.o
>>
>    Or you could just go to a dealer and buy a 1987-88 Cougar for
>    that kinda money....

I had a '70 Cougar XR-7 Converitble (only 1,977 were made). It had air, PS,
PB, power windows, power top, 351 Cleveland, etc. And it only cost me $400!

Yes, it ran, but it went through a quart of oil every 100 miles, and it had
a Fred Flintstone floorpan (i.e. I could stick my feet through and stop the
car by dragging them on the ground ;-)

Wish I still had it... 

--
Scott Coleman                                                    tmkk@uiuc.edu

Free Advice: It is inadvisable to read Bush's lips at an official banquet.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: wall@mcm.com (Steve Wall)
Subject: Information on RVs
Organization: Mellon Capital Management Corp. San Francisco, CA.
Distribution: us
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:49:59 GMT

I hope this is the appropriate newsgroup - I couldn't find a
rec.rv, etc...

My parents are considering the purchase of an RV so that they can
hit the road during their retirement years. I was wondering if
anybody can give me feedback on the following:

	1. What is the minimum size RV for two people living
	   full time in the vehicle for an indefinite period
	   of time?

	2. What are the best brand names (Winebago, etc.) in
	   RVs?

	3. What are the most important features to check for when
	   evaluating an RV (new or used)? minimum engine size?
	   transmission? suspension? features?

	4. What is the best engine to power a typical RV (GM, Ford,
	   ??)? I assume that two different brands of RV could
	   very well share similar engines, transmissions, etc.

	5. What horror stories should be avoided when considering
	   the purchase of an RV?

	6. What horror stories should be avoided when considering
	   living in an RV full time?


I also assume that most RV salespeople rank quite low in terms of
ethical standards, so I'm trying to arm myself with real information
before I have to interact with one of these alien beings.

Any other information would be most helpful. I'm trying to avoid
receiving a call from my parents saying, "We're in Barstow CA, but
part of our engine dropped off back in Bakersfield..."

Thanks,
-- 

Steve Wall (wall@mcm.com)
Mellon Capital Management Corporation
San Francisco, CA
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: hess@decoy.uucp (25441-hess)
Subject: Re: Anybody into 64-73 musclecars
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 11:32:16 GMT

In article <195@mogun.UUCP> dcg@mogun.UUCP (David Gunsul) writes:
>In article <1992Sep8.145608.12952@bcars6a8.bnr.ca>, zenith89@bcarh1eb.bnr.ca (Chris VanFleet) writes:
>> In article <1992Sep08.120509.4829@bmerh85.bnr.ca> seymour@bnr.ca (Jeffrey Seymour) writes:
>> >
>> >answer: No
>> >
>> >------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> What is your problem?
>
>He obviously has no taste.     
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^NOT TRUE!

On this news group?? You've got to be kidding!! their just trying to figure
out which Japaneese car company built something called "musclecar" tween
1960 and 1970 thats all.


M.K.Hess
1970 GTO Judge
From: hjz@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Buying Cars from Auction Yards
Date: 10 Sep 92 17:22:11 EDT

During the times when I was looking at the used car market, either for 
myself or for my friends, I found out that there might be a few number of 
people there making money by buying and selling used automobiles. Now that 
I had spent my fortune into my Firebird, I find it is quite tempting to 
join into that group. 
So, will I make any money?????
Where am I going to buy? Auction yard? Actually I have been to auction 
yards for several times. But I am still not really sure about the price 
there. It seems that sometimes the bidding price is even worse than you can 
get from a privite party. And also there are these closed auctions, which is 
to dealers only, and the open auctions, which open to general publics. Any 
tricks hidding inside?
It might be difficult, but I am willing to give a try. Any advise will be 
greatly appriciated.

Jizhong 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: ramiro@rrunner.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ramiro Reinoso)
Subject: Re: Ka Wideband - too many false alarms
Keywords: radar detectors wideband
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 22:26:13 GMT

In article <3689@execu.execu.com>, dickp@execu.execu.com (Dick Parshall) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep8.152108.19067@walter.bellcore.com> ramiro@rrunner.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ramiro Reinoso) writes:
|> #I recently purchased a radar detector with the Ka wideband
|> #feature.  The Ka band covers the 34.700 plus/minus 520 MHz band.
|> #
|> #The radar was going off on the Ka band alert 9 out of 10 times
|> #I was passing a truck.  I found this annoying so I decided to call
|> #manufacturer.  It seems that wideband scans through so many 
|> #different bands that ends up picking up interference from cellular
|> 
|> You left off an important detail for the rest of us readers and potential
|> new-generation radar detector buyers:  what manufacturer and what detector
|> model?
|> 
|> Thanks.

The unit is a UNIDEN RD5000W.  I have not found an explanation to the
problem from Uniden.

-- 
Ramiro Reinoso, 444 Hoes Lane, 		| What I post here is my personal
Office RRC-1E-226. Piscataway, NJ 08854	| opinion and not that of Bellcore.
(PHONE) (908) 699-5021			| 
(INTERNET) ramiro@ctt.bellcore.com	|
(UUCP)  ...!bellcore!ctt!ramiro		|
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jlysagh@hubcap.clemson.edu (james joseph lysaght)
Subject: Door Horror
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 15:13:03 GMT


From: v087mxgb@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Shawn E Thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: THE DOOR HORROR
Date: 3 Sep 92 00:59:00 GMT


>friend & I parking @ mall. Huge caddy parked grossly
>across 2 spaces (not handicapped either, just a jerk)
>we park his GTI in the remainder of one of the spots
>fully within the confines of the space.

>come out to find this idiot had the nerve to key his
>car and rip the molding off it?!?!?!?!?!
Vandelism is immature no matter what the circumstances but you certainly
deserved a reprisal for your own immaturity.

This is something else that pisses me off!  I drive a huge Caddy that I
have put a LOT of time and money into restoring.  There are several
parking lots I go to where my car simply does not fit in one parking
space.  The car is longer than one parking space so I have a choice, I
either park over two parking spaces or hangg out of the space blocking
the passage between isles.  I ALWAYS drive all the way to the back of
the lot out of respect for those others who should not be inconvenienced
by my desire to drive a big car.  I park at the very back of the lot and
take up two parking spaces.  It never fails! some total jerk in some
small car like a GTI will HAVE to park in that little bit of space left
behind my car in the second parking space right up against my bumper
when there are several other space actually more conveniently located to
the store.  These stupid jerks in their small cars are so damn short
sighted that they can not look at the situation and see that my car is
simply too long for one space and can not recognize the fact that I am
even considerate enought to park in the far back of the lot.

The Door Ding Dipshits are absentminded idiots who don't pay enough
attention to what they are doing but jerks like this are ACTIVEMINDEDLY
INTENTIOMALLY being complete total BUTTHOLES for the sole purpose of
pissing off someone who went out of their way to be considerate.  The
last time someone did this to me I was still in my car when they pulled
in.  I waited till they got out of their car and then promptly put my
car in reverse and pushed their car all the way out into the isle while
they watched.

People like this should not be allowed to have a drivers liscense as
they obviously have no respect for the magnitude of responsibility
involved in operating a car.

Flame thrower off, asbestos suit on.

Jim
Xref: sparky rec.autos:22073 rec.autos.tech:12644