HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dst@hardy.u.washington.edu (Dale Tanigawa)
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
Subject: Re: Question about Coca Cola co.
Date: 3 Jan 1993 22:45:30 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu
Keywords: Coke, Mormons, Taylor Wines

In article <1993Jan3.183021.3342@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek) writes:
>I was hoping someone out there could dispell or confirm some rumours I
>once heard:
>1)  Is it true that Coca-Cola is owned by the LDS (Mormon) church?

I heard it was Pepsi, and that they own a substantial stake, but not the
whole company.  From discussion relating to whether any dividends, capital
gains, etc. would be tax exempt because they are a church.

>2)  Is it true that the LDS prohibition against drinking caffinated soda
>    was lifted when the church acquired Coke?

This I also heard (though of course, with Pepsi, not Coke), though it might
just be so much Mormon-bashing urban legendia.

Of the half-dozen Mormons that I know, only one follows the dietary
proscriptions.  My ex-boss was quite the chocoholic, and caffeine addict,
and she did indulge in alcohol every once in awhile.  Kinda like Catholics
and birth control.


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Terminology Re: meat eaters (was: Re: Gun Control Petition)
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:16:07 GMT

Lawrence D. Hare writes:

Ted Altar wrote:
>>>What about some intermediate term like "semi-vegetarian"?  I would
>>>like to give people making that attempt some credit and acknowledgement
>>>of their achievement.  What do you think?

Lawrence Hare replied:
>Depends on the duration of the term's usage. Last year, 1991, I quit
>smoking. I started in September with a goal of cutting down strength
>(moving from the strong packs I was using, two packs a day), then cutting
>down volume. I targetted December 31, 1991 as my drop dead day. Nice way
>of looking at it I thought. None of this patch stuff, just simple work it
>out of the system and stop.

>On Dec 31, 1991 I was smoking about 8 cigarettes a day, the weakest brand
>imaginable, and underneith Big Al's, on Columbus and Broadway San
>Francisco, 12 midnight, surrounded by some of the strangest examples of
>humanity around (but having a heck of a good time) I smoked my last.

>Easier than pie :-)

>Now, was I a smoker or not during that period?

Ok, you were still a smoker, but one we should give credit for
as having a resolve to quiteon a certain date, and one who
was preparing oneself for that V-day of liberation :-)

You weren't just any old smoker, but you were one with a resolve
to make an impprovment, if only by first reducing strength
and cutting down.  Don't you think you deserve some credit during
that transition period?


>Perhaps the term "Retiring-Omnivore" would be more descriptive? Or
>"Forthcoming-Vegetarian"? Perhaps "Vegetarian-in-the-making (vitm)",
>T-Shirts anyone?

How about underwear?  instead?  At least it doesn't show as much :-)

Yes, maybe a new term for the "transition-smoker", or the maybe
"guilty" smoker who at least cuts down and changes to a weaker
brand.  "Ex-smoker-in-the-making" is too wordy.  "Semi-smoker"
does seem like a contradiction in terms but somehow "semi-vegetarian"
seems less contradictory or catachrestic  ;-)

Now, there is a distinction between pipe smokers who don't inhale
and cigarette smokes who do.  Is there a possible analogy here
with our semi-vegetarian who at least is reducing their
diet-related health risks somewhat, just as the pipe smoker
is reducing their risk for lung cancer in comparison with
with the inveterate cigarette smoker?  Now, we do have the
distinction of "pico-vegetarian", "lacto-ovovegetarian",
"vegan", etc.   Could the "semi-vegetarian" be our dietary
"pipe-smoker"?  No, don't put that into your pipe!  Chew on
a delicious organically grown carrot instead  ;-)

					Happy Holiday Season,
						ted
From: VSANNICE@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il (Annice Grinberg)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: vegan bacon?
Date: 24 Dec 92 14:16:28 GMT
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science

In article <1992Dec23.202224.19644@pbs.org>
mdresser@pbs.org (Melanie Dresser) writes:

>
>In article <1992Dec18.223427.51699@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, lwm3@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (LANCE WILLIAM MUZSLAY) writes:
>>>Does anyone know of something on the market that resembles the
>>>taste of bacon, or at least bacon fat?
>
>Well, I don't know if it tastes like bacon since I've never
>tasted bacon, but MorningStar Farms makes a product called
>Breakfast Strips, that is supposed to imitate bacon.  I like
>it, especially in sandwiches for breakfast or lunch.
>Available in the frozen section at most large grocery store
>chains (Giant, Safeway, etc).
>--

If I remember correctly, Morningstar Farms strips are not vegan.
Unless the formula has been changed, they contain casein, a milk
derivative.  I can't get them here, so can't check it out.

Annice
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: andy@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Andy Michael USGS Guest)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Artifical Fur Manufacturers - Request for Info.
Date: 26 Dec 1992 08:21:23 GMT
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
NNTP-Posting-Host: pangea.stanford.edu

In article <63062@mimsy.umd.edu> tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
>andy@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Andy Michael USGS Guest) writes:
>>Similarly I don't quite see the fascination with fake fur.  Do you really
>>want to fool people into thinking you would wear fur?  I think fur is
>>beautiful and if I want to pay tribute to it in my clothing I would go
>>for using the pattern of stripes and spots and colors in a print, not to
>>duplicate the hair itself.
>     When I wear my biker-style leather-looking jacket, it's because
>it looks good, and it gives me an oppurtunity to remind others that they
>can keep their fashions without cruelty.
Seems like a valid reason, if one suceeds in actually reminding others.

>     My mom was recently given a fake fur. It looks nice (if you know
>its fake), and it's warm.

How about if they were made with some color/pattern combination that
doesn't quite occur in nature?  That might throw people off enough to
ask about it?  "I didn't know there were purple spotted leopards?" :-)

A strange side question that occurred to me recently is: Do the
synthetics contain a lot of petroleum products and/or are they
made with a process that includes toxic chemicals (not that tanning
leather is so clean)?  While one may not be wearing an animal one
could still be killing some by polluting ground water and destroying
areas for oil drilling.  Life can be very complicated and it may not
always be clear how to reduce ones impact on the planet.  Anyway its
just a strange question bred by reading up on global climate change
and starting to understand all of the linked systems that make up
earth system science.

Andy
From: mbevan@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Mark Bevan)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegetarianism or fanaticism
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 01:48:22 MST
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #3, Edmonton, AB, Canada

la1002@albnyvms.bitnet (Clover M.) writes:

- I have to agree with something that you just said: the comment re
- carrots.  I know MANY people who will give me long lectures on
- the "right" way to cook or prepare things, and afterwards I will
- find myself walking away shaking my head, because not only didn't
- I understand what the people were talking about, it sounded like THEY
- didn't either!
- 
The best way to eat carrot is to first strike to rocks together and hope
The best way to eat carrots is Raw. This way you don't trespass the 
carrots right to be a carrot. Boiling carrots screams....eeaak?
:)

Mark Bevan              mbevan@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller)
Subject: Re: Kosher slaughter (was Re: Medicine & the Mall)
Followup-To: rec.food.veg
Organization: AL/HRTI, Brooks AFB
	<1gsrtaINN8db@FRIDGE.AI.CS.YALE.EDU> <62953@mimsy.umd.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:00:53 GMT

On 19 Dec 92 22:03:48 GMT, tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) said:

 T>      The fact that a razor-sharp knife is used hardly guarntees a
 T> painless death.

	Ever have a paper cut, cut yourself by running your fingers
lengthwise across a razor, or open your fingers with a *very* sharp
knife?  I have (particularly the last one) and can attest that, given a
sharp enough blade, you *don't feel a thing* for quite awhile or until
you disturb the wound.

	Done correctly, the animals are unconcious withinone or two
seconds.  They feel no pain.

-- Cerebus <tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil>
"Try it sometime.  ;)"
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: murty@ecf.toronto.edu (MURTY Hema Sandhyarani)
Subject: aspartame
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 19:59:18 GMT


	What is the source of aspartame in diet drinks?

	Hema
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Rosemary Waigh <rwaigh@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Cats2: Final Word
Reply-To: rwaigh@zooid.UUCP (Rosemary Waigh)
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 22:56:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.133625.17519@eng.umd.edu> georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:
>
>No cat with any self respect would accept a vegetarian diet. Without
>meat, a cat would soon become an impotent, gay, wimp, unable to
>stand tall among his neighborhood peers who hunt birds, mice, and
>squirrels for their meals. 
>
>
Not to start a flamefest, but are you suggesting that gay people are impotent
wimps? :-(

Ro
rwaigh@zooid.guild.org
From: kayt@deathstar.Stanford.EDU (Kayt Sorhaindo)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Refrigeration Question
Date: 25 Dec 1992 00:59:52 GMT
Organization: Stanford University
NNTP-Posting-Host: alderaan.stanford.edu


Hi everyone!

As a vegetarian who is striving to be a vegan, I hardly ever buy any foods  
which need to be refrigerated. 

I'm moving to an apartment next week which is short on cabinet space but  
has a huge refrigerator.

This may be a stupid question, but is it bad to store food (pasta, rice,  
canned foods, etc) in the refrigerator? I heard once that bread will  
actually go bad faster in the fridge and that storing opened cans in the  
fridge is also a bad idea. Is this true?

Any information would be appreciated. Thanks! Kayt
From: mdresser@pbs.org (Melanie Dresser)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: vegan bacon?
Date: 23 Dec 92 20:22:24 EST
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

In article <1992Dec18.223427.51699@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, lwm3@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (LANCE WILLIAM MUZSLAY) writes:
>>Does anyone know of something on the market that resembles the
>>taste of bacon, or at least bacon fat?

Well, I don't know if it tastes like bacon since I've never
tasted bacon, but MorningStar Farms makes a product called
Breakfast Strips, that is supposed to imitate bacon.  I like
it, especially in sandwiches for breakfast or lunch.
Available in the frozen section at most large grocery store
chains (Giant, Safeway, etc).
-- 
**************************************************************
          Melanie L. Dresser	  mdresser@pbs.org    
**************************************************************
"In this world, you must be oh so smart, or oh so pleasant.
Well, for years I was smart; I recommend pleasant.  You may
quote me."  Elwood P. Dowd
**************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet (Clover M.)
Subject: Re: Any spicy (non Indian) veg food in NYC
Reply-To: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 93 04:31:41 GMT

If you have a copy of January's _Vegetarian Times_ handy, there is am
article on NYC's veggie offerings.  Offhand, though, the upper West
side has "Pumpkin Eater" and "Mana", both on the same block.  If I
remember correctly, they are somwhere between 90th and 93rd street
and Broadway on the East side of the block.
 
There is a "Vegetarian Paradise" somewhere, and there is a famous 
Chinese place in Chinatown, buit I can't think of the name.

Hope this helps,
Clover
la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
This is my very first sig.file

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Subject: Re: Vegetarians or not vegetarians?
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 18:20:45 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

In article <altar.725042424@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
>Lee Crocker writes:
>[...]
>>Nor does it take into account those like me, who _are_ vegetarians
>>for health/environmental reasons but are openly contemptuous of the
>>moralistic dogma that clouds discussion in this group.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Is it not characteristic of "moralistic dogma", as you call it, 
>to moralistically dismiss the ethical arguments of others rather

       [Encyclopedia Brittanica deleted]
>
>					Respectfully,
>						ted


Ted, you zoomed in on two words, "moralistic dogma," and used these
as a starting point for your lengthy discourse of why Lee Crocker
doesn't know what he's talking about.

You are way out of context. Lee's complaint was primarily motivated by
Abhay's comment:

     "This is a forum for vegetarian issues. If someone takes a lot of
     trouble to post a large volume and is not a vegetarian, I would
     question his/her credibility."


As such, Lee's angry response was appropriate.

Many people, like Lee, dislike r.f.v. being used as a forum by those
who grandstand their political and moral views in front of an unwilling
audience, especially since there exists several separate newsgroups for
these specific topics:  animal rights, ethics, religion, etc.

Also, your argument that Lee fails to counter specific assertions in
your own posts is without merit. When you post articles in excess of
100 lines of text on a daily basis, nobody but yourself and Abhay is
going to take the time to read them. Besides, much of what you post
is read in by an optical scanner, so I'm unconvinced you've even
read it yourself.

Also, it would benefit the group if you would stop playing the role
of moderator of every r.f.v. dispute. Abhay and others can defend
themselves, and your involvement only escalates the disputes, especially
given your habit of passive aggression.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go take my vitamin D supplement to
ensure my continued good health. Oh, I forgot. You don't talk about
vitamin D anymore because your claims made you look like an idiot.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: Re: Artifical Fur Manufacturers - Request for Info.
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 08:46:05 GMT

In article <50823@shamash.cdc.com> ldh@svl.cdc.com (Lawrence D. Hare) writes:

>Sorry if I upset anyone. I find that, being relatively new to vegan
>vegetariansim, there is a magnificant connection between this lifestyle
>and animals - I revel in it, even if I am not sure I understand it. I
>presume that as time passes, this new found emotion will die and I will
>just post recipes.  

Since no one had much to speak on that matter, here is what I think.
The word "fur" is disgusting to many of us. While some people go to
extreme lengths to produce artificial meat from soyabeans to feed
a vegetarian, the vegetarian guest is hardly impressed. In fact, he
might not even endure it. Why meat in the first place ?

Similarly why fur, even if artificial ? Fur is not socially acceptable
in many places. 

Abhay

Tell me what this post has to do with vegetarian food and why it
should be in alt.shit instead. Thanks.

>
>  \   |   /
>-  NOT -
>  /  |   \
>
>In the meantime: A Very Merry Holiday to y'all
>
>Lawrence
From: gbelli@opal.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: freezing hummos?
Date: 21 Dec 92 17:06:10 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA

Here's an easy question: can I freeze a package of commercially made hummos?
It hasn't been opened yet--my eyes were bigger than my stomach, and I bought
too much.  Thanks very much for any wisdom.  Please reply directly to me, as
I don't have much time to check the newsgroups any more.
Thanks again,
Gretchen
GBELLI@OPAL.TUFTS.EDU
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Secret Life of Plants (Excerpt)
Date: 22 Dec 92 03:50:05 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <mhulsey-161292123815@fatrat.fcs.uga.edu> mhulsey@hestia.fcs.uga.edu (Martin Hulsey) writes:

[lots of jeering about `wouldn't it be stooopid if there was Vegetable
 Liberation Front?' deleted]

Really Martin, you are starting to sound like all those "we hate AR"
frat boys over on t.p.a

>This scenario is, of course, as ludicrous as its counterpart in the
>contemporary animal "rights" movement.

Why so, since there is ample - indeed, overwhelming - evidence that
animals are capable of experiencing pain, and none at all ("The
Secret Life of Plants" notwithstanding) that plants are so capable?"

Paul
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: 11jsutton@gallua.gallaudet.edu
Subject: Gay cats?  *Great*!  (was "vegetarian cats2...", I think)
Organization: Gallaudet University
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 23:26:57 GMT

On Dec 30 George B. Clark said:

>No cat with any self respect would accept a vegetarian diet. Without
>meat, a cat would soon become an impotent, gay, wimp, unable to
                                            ^^^
>stand tall among his neighborhood peers who hunt birds, mice, and
>squirrels for their meals. 

Eating vegetarian food causes a cat to become gay?  Wonderful!  This
is the best news I've heard in a *long* time!  I mean for years now
I've been telling friends and strangers alike that they should
spay/neuter their pet cat to help stop the problem of unwanted
kittens being born, but now it seems there's no need to pay for an
operation, if vegetarian food will in fact make a cat turn gay!  Now
all we have to do is get pet owners everywhere to switch to veggie
fare for their cats, and soon there'll be no more kittens being put
to sleep because no one wants them.  This is birth control made easy!
Someone write and tell all the papers about this!

;-)     ;-)

--Jennifer Sutton (11jsutton@gallua.bitnet)
From: ldh@svl.cdc.com (Lawrence D. Hare)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegetarians or not vegetarians?
Date: 28 Dec 92 18:22:58 GMT
Organization: Control Data Systems
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d16
X-XXMessage-ID: <A764856701010456@ethelred.svl.cdc.com>
X-XXDate: Mon, 28 Dec 92 10:20:23 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.164027.13641@zooid.guild.org> Rosemary Waigh,
rwaigh@zooid.guild.org writes:
>>Also, your argument that Lee fails to counter specific assertions in
>>your own posts is without merit. When you post articles in excess of
>>100 lines of text on a daily basis, nobody but yourself and Abhay is
>>going to take the time to read them.
>
>I read them.

So do we. In fact we print many of them, file them, and refer to them
over time.

Lawrence
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Bisque Classic or Bisque New??
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 08:05:43 GMT

ruthb@hotspring.sitka.sun.com (Ruth Blackburn) writes:

>For some reason hundreds of articles were marked as unread today, so I just now
>saw the message Ted had posted awhile ago about the differences between recipes
>in the old and new Moosewood cookbooks.  I have the older version - my copy is
>stained and taped together. 

Yes, mine is looking pretty dogeared and time-worn.  I've found that
by placing mac-tac on the outside of a paperback book, the life the
book is prolonged.   And when the pages begin to fall out, that
flexible white glue (something like "polyvinylchoride" or some such
thing with glycerin added)  works quite well.  :-)


> However, I don't yet feel a need to purchase
>the new one, because I already improvise on Katzen's recipes and have for 
>years.  I leave ingredients out and add others and usually reduce the amount
>of oil, honey, etc. in the recipes. 

Yes, I agree that this is the best approach.  Simply reduce or eliminate
as one goes along.  Add what one things is more suitable.  
In this way, the result is more one's own creation  :-)

> I don't know how well this technique works
>with the baked goods and desserts, however, as I don't make those too often.  I
>am leaning towards becoming a vegan lately and am interested to see what I
>can do with her lacto-ovo recipes.

Good for you!  Good luck with your efforts in this directi.
						
				Holiday Greetings,
	
						ted
From: jaj@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jill A. Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: another question.
Date: 1 Jan 1993 21:18:28 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu

Does anyone know if granola has an ftp site?  I have very limited disk space 
and I'm not sure how receiving huge files would work.  

Thanks 
	Jill
Newsgroups:   rec.food.veg
From:         loc@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM (Leigh Clayton)
Subject:      Boiling miso (was Re: Vegetarianism or fanaticism)
X-Telephone:  +1 (416) 364-5361 Fax +1 (416) 364-2910 Telex 0622259
Organization: Reuters APL Software Division
X-Mail:       1900/2 First Canadian Place, Toronto, Canada, M5X 1E3
Date:         31 Dec 92 21:35:33 UT

 la1002@albnyvms.bitnet asks about (not) boiling miso.

 The reason that many people say not to boil miso is that it is traditionally a
'live' food; that is, not homogenised or anything else that would kill the
microbes that live in it while it is aging. The idea is that these microbes are
good for the digestion and basic internal health (much the same as the idea
that 'live' yoghurt contains microflora that it is beneficial to ingest). I
suspect that this is a modern patina on a more ancient, animist, belief in the
value of certain 'magical' foods: miso has reputedly been used as a treatment
for digestive problems for centuries in Japan.

 I don't know that there is any scientific merit to the notion. The idea that
yogurt micro-organisms would promote a beneficial intestinal flora has been
quite convincingly debunked by actual studies showing that these organisms do
not survive their trip through the stomach (although the idea persists, in
large part due to the inertia it gained around the turn of the last century
when it was promoted as a cure for aging, the idea being that aging was the
result of 'bad' intestinal microfauna). Personally, when I use miso I use it
mostly in soup, and I do add it towards the end in 'the traditional' way, but
I'm not very strongly convinced that miso organisms really do make themselves
at home in my intestinal tract, or even that, if they did, it would be
beneficial. Perhaps someone else has more definite knowledge about that.

 Much modern packaged miso is either homogenised or has alcohol added (both
things are done to make it keep better) and so there are no living microbes in
it (I'm using the term 'microbes' very loosely - the organisms that age miso
are something vaguely fungal I think, but this is from memory and I don't
remember exactly what they are without looking it up). Some of the more
thoroughly aged varieties are still 'live' (hatcho miso, for example, usually
is), if this matters to you. As a flavouring, miso seems remarkably resilient
to extended cooking, so if you want to add it to your hotpot and cook it for 12
hours, I don't see any reason not to do so.

 I hope this is of some help/interest ..../Leigh

--------------------------------------------------------
 Make haste, therefore, sweet love, whilest it is prime
 For none can call again the passed time.
                 Edmund Spenser
--------------------------------------------------------
Leigh Clayton                  loc@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM
    -or-                     loc@ipsaint.ipsa.reuter.COM
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg