HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kim@guppy.uucp (Isaac Kim)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Golf Etiquette Part 1/5
Date: 7 Jan 1993 02:51:49 GMT
Organization: UC San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: guppy.ucsd.edu

In article <2934738421.3.p00168@psilink.com> "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com> writes:>>DATE:   29 Dec 92 14:53:25 GMT
>>FROM:   Mark Bisgeier <mdb@netcom.com>
>>
>>I'd be interested in your analysis of etiquette vis-a-vis the Rules of Golf...
>>is there an instance where etiquette is inconsistent with the Rules (e.g.,
>>the common practice of a player off the green putting or chipping first
>>even though someone on the green may be further away from the hole and the
>>away player has not really given his consent to let the off-green player
>>play)?
>>-- 
>Good etiquette also implies the observance of unenforced rules, but I 
>can think of nowhere that the rules and golf etiquette collide.

Jim,

I was just wondering if you play strictly from the rule book when
you are playing a non-competative casual round.  I agree that in
competative golf, the rules and etiquette do not conflict.  But
what about in a casual round where the emphasis in etiquette 
should be speed of play?  What if you have just teed off from an 
extremely elevated tee on a busy weekend (ie. the group behind 
you is also with you on the tee), and smashed it right down the 
middle.  After walking up to where your ball should lie, you find 
it is no where in sight after the alotted 5 minutes of searching.  
If it is a competative round, there is no question about the next
step (you hike back up to the tee to hit your 3rd shot).  But
what about in a casual round which you want to finish in 5 1/2 
hours?  Would you just drop a ball and proceed to hit your 4th
shot?  I would (and it's not because I don't wear golf shoes - 
it's because my main interest in playing casual golf is 
speed of play).

I know that the golf traditionalists would never go for this, but
I think, for the sake of fast play, that the golfing community should
seriously question the need for the time consumming punishment of 
stroke-AND-distance for lost balls, out-of-bounds, etc.  I know
that in most questionable situations, the astute golfer will hit
a provisional.  But this also takes up time (as well as looking for
the provisional if he or she happens to also hit it astray).
We play a school tournament where any lost ball or out-of-bounds is
treated like a lateral water hazard or losing your ball in GUR.
Just drop your ball where you think it last lied in the golf course,
add a penalty shot, and hit it.  The play seems alot faster.

What do you think?

Isaac (kim@bull.ucsd.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: mftjs@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (T. Jerry Scott)
Subject: Re: John Daly
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 13:14:05 GMT

In article <1ifrlmINN4k@chnews.intel.com> bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) writes:
>In article <C0Fq3H.6nE@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> mftjs@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (T. Jerry Scott) writes:
>Jack Nicklaus is popular.
>Tom Kite is popular.
>Arnold Palmer is popular.
>John Daly is populist.
>
>We don't need this in golf; never have; never will.
>
I guess Walter Hagen and the old guys never had problems with the booze,
or does your golf memory not go back far enough.  

John Daly got his fame in only one year, with only one win, a rags to
riches story.  It just happened to him.  It came too fast, and he has
not been able to handle it.

As far as his Alcohol is concerned, of course, it is a problem; but my
hope for golf is that John can overcome it.  Both golf and John will be
better off for it.  Golf needs new stars who are different from the Brad
Bryants of the world.  People need golfers they can identify with.  John
Daly is such a player, a blue collar guy who slashes through a game
unlike any others before him.  Lots of Americans out there really like
John's approach, similar to how they liked Arnold Palmer's in 30 years
ago.  Arnold had more personal capability in dealing with people than
John does, but hopefully John will learn.

=======================================================================
Thomas J. Scott 				mftjs@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
Have golfed for 30 years			Now a 3 Handicap
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: colinm@max.carleton.ca (Colin McFadyen)
Subject: Re: John Daly
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 22:37:33 GMT

In <1iq1r1INN8rc@chnews.intel.com> bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) writes:


>Daly's a jerk.  His family's a jerk.  You're a jerk.  (I'm
>a jerk, but not just now.  Now I'm a pop-psychoanalyst.
>Welcome to the net.)

Looks like it's time for alt.blast.john.daly to keep the drivel out
of this group.  

Relax Blair.  You have made your point several times about how you
despise Daly and the 'You Da Man' types.  If you want to see some
real boorish behaviour, check your last few posts where you have
attacked people for disagreeing with you.

Actually, rec.sport.golf was getting rather quiet until the Daly
discussion.  Looks like he has also livened up this group eh?
-- 
Colin McFadyen -- Carleton U. Computing and Communications Services
Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA K1S 5B6                  
colinm@ccs.carleton.ca
From: john@sequent.com (John Vander Borght)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: ABC Editing Golf Telecasts stinks
Date: 11 Jan 93 21:33:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1993Jan11.213326.25036
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.


Was anyone else as mad at ABC for the terrible job of editing the
Tournament of Champions yesterday as I was.  I'm not sure if these
problems were anywhere other than on the West Coast.

First they tape delay the tournament.  Then they edit it in the most stupid
way to get it to fit in the time slot.

As Love and Azinger came down the last 4 holes, ABC deleted entire
sequences of action and never even told us what happened (the announcers
couldn't because they didn't know how it would be edited.)  On 15, we saw both
players hit it to about 10-15 feet.  The next thing we saw (cut directly to
it, no commercial in between or anything else that could explain the
missing time/footage) was both players tee off on 16.  No explanation about if
they made their putts or even an acknowledgement that things had been edited. 

The only way to know was to figure out that their scores vs par hadn't changed.

Then on 17, they did the same thing.  We saw each player hit his third
shot, Azinger hit it to about 15 feet again and Love hit it over the green.
The next shot was Love tapping in a 2 footer.  No chip, no birdie putt for
Zinger etc.

It was obvious that they had edited the tape before showing it on the West
Coast so that they would be done by 5PM.  But instead of leaving out the
action at the end, they could have edited things like the helicopter shots of
the holes that we had already been seeing for 3 hours and knew exactly what
they looked like.  Or the interview with Tom Kite, or the babbling from
Brent and Peter.

At least on Sunday they got Jacobsen to quit the commercials he was doing on
ESPN on Friday and Saturday for various club and clothing manufacturers.

He'd say things like "Joe has sure been playing better since he switched to
that Name-Brand Irons with the Name-Brand Graphite Shaft" etc.

John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com

-- 
"Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!"
John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com
From: petonic@hal.com (Michael A. Petonic)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Comments about Ping Zings?
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:16:04 GMT
Organization: Henry's Laughing Gas Co., Inc.

In article <1993Jan3.055558.2251@netcom.com> bcherkas@netcom.com (Brian Cherkas) writes:
>Anyone have anything good to say about Pinz Zings? I have two
>broken old irons and I plan on eventually replacing all of
>them. I can get them at discount for $60 a piece. Are they
>worth it?

I like them.  I just bought a set a couple weeks ago (a selfish
Christmas present) at an Air Force Golf Course pro-shop (my father's
retired military).  I paid $600 for the 2-PW.  Of course, I skipped
state sales tax (in Texas, that's 8.5%) so it was a big win.  Plus,
at a lot of places here in Austin, there's a couple month waiting
list for a set, unless you want to pay retail...

Anyway, I usually shoot low 90's, very high 80's, but I've shed at
least 3 or 4 strokes with these clubs.  How much is psychological
and how much is physical?  At my level, who can tell?  

A couple of changes from my old set:  

	- I'm now using regular flex.  I was using Dynamic Gold Stiff
	  on Golfsmith Texas Classic heads.

	- The head lie is normal, not upright like on my old set.

	- I like the dylagrips.  I was using (now worn) victory 
	  half-cord grips.

I seem to get about a club more distance than I used to.  Could be the
flex, I dunno.  But, I'm not a slow hitter, because I can get to
phases where I hit my driver (Ping Eye-2) about 250-270 yds
consistently, w/o a wind.  I haven't noticed any detrimental effects
from the new lie nor from the more flexible shaft.  For me, I'm
wondering if I didn't initially chose the stiff flex for reasons of
ego rather than score...

-pet-
--
Michael A. Petonic	       petonic@hal.com		       +1-512-794-2855
        HaL Computer Systems International, Ltd. -- A Bermuda Corporation
             Director of Dangerous Activities  [ACK to Geoff.Kimbrough@sun.com]
				 Austin, Texas
                          "No balls, no blue chip."
From: mftjs@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (T. Jerry Scott)
Subject: Re: Watching 3 foot putts (flame bait) was Re: John Daly
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 13:05:18 GMT

In article <C0G7zF.Fo6@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> dil@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Perry G Ramsey) writes:
>In article <C0Fq3H.6nE@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> mftjs@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (T. Jerry Scott) writes:
>
>And on a totally unrelated subject:
>
>>The other obvious thing here is that his wife did not press charges.  How
>>can you deprive a person of a huge income when no charges have been filed?
>
>Easy.  Criminal conviction is not equivalent to refusal to associate.
>Mickey Mantle's activities with gambling organizations were unquestionably
>legal, but "Baseball" still felt that it was in their best interests not
>to associate with him. The PGA could, in principle, make a similar
>decision.  
>
I am glad you are so smug about the problems of those who drink.  Daly's
situation is repeated night after night all over the country.  My point
is that for whatever reasons, John got help.  If he comes out of it
better, golf will be better, and John might be some sort of spokesman
for those trying to kick an alcohol habit.  Also, a person tearing up
his  own house is quite different from Mickey Mantle associating with
gambling organizations, don't you think?

=======================================================================
Thomas J. Scott					mftjs@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: peak@abacus.Columbia.NCR.COM (Bob Peak)
Subject: Re: Tournamt. of Champs. - Start of '93 PGA season
Organization: NCR Corp, E&M-Columbia, Columbia, SC
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 13:43:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.181015.26714@chiton.ucsd.edu> martin@chiton.ucsd.edu (Martin Olivera) writes:
>On Tuesday I went to watch the pro's practice at La Costa. As you probably
>know, this year both the Senior and regular tours will play this tournament
>from the same set of tees to accomodate Ray Floyd's "double-dipping". 

<Stuff Deleted>


One quick question ... Does anyone know what happens if Raymond wins?

Both checks? Does he have to choose one over the other?

I'm sure this is a "problem" he would love to have!


Bob Peak  
peak@abacus.Columbia.NCR.COM

#################################
From: bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: john daly rippers!
Date: 7 Jan 1993 22:23:37 GMT
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, Arizona
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: stealth.intel.com

In article <C0HuG6.676@news.udel.edu> doing@brahms.udel.edu (David Allen Doing) writes:
>Come on people, give John Daly a break!  At least he has the ability to
>try to solve his drinking problem.

He has a lot of money and a large facility full of
professionals.

If he had any "ability to try" he wouldn't have had a
"drinking problem" in the first place.

>after all he's only human like you and me (although I am making
>quite an assumption about you!!)

I'm not saying he's entirely without value; he did win a
major, and just whacking the ball a mile is no guarantee of
that, and that definitely makes him one of the 500 greatest
players of the game of golf, ever; and he is in rehab, so he
isn't a complete reprobate.

But he's no role model in any sense of any inflection of
the term, and people who like him for the way he disrupts
the sport are even less so.

				--Blair
				  "R^ole Model."
From: S.Burke@bradford.ac.uk (S BURKE)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Sky RL coverage
Date: 12 Jan 93 17:04:01 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Originator: 91633880@ccw305

Does anybody now the meaning of the Latin theme tune of the Big League?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: World Cup 95 Preliminaries
From: graham@otago.ac.nz
Date: 6 Jan 93 12:14:28 +1300
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand

The article below was published in our local rag.  It does not
answer questions re the format of the qualifying rounds, 
dates, fixtures, etc.  If anyone is able to furnish further info 
would appreciate knowing it.

WALES FACES A LONG ROAD
Paris (AFP) - Wales has to play Switzerland, Belgium, Portugal and
Spain to qualify for the 1995 Rugby World Cup in South Africa.

Wales, third in the first World Cup in 1987, failed to reach the
quarter-finals in the 1991 tournament and did not join the nine
seeds - the final eight and South Africa - which qualified
automatically for 1995.

The International Amateur Rugby Federation have drawn up seven
groups, with the winners joining Australia, England, New Zealand,
Scotland, Western Samoa, Canada, France, Ireland and South Africa.

The qualifying tournament sections are (zonal winners qualify) -

East European zone: Germany, Georgia, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland,
   Russia, Romania. (Romania have first-round bye).
Central European zone: Holland, Hungary, Israel, Italy, Sweden,
   Czechoslovakia. (Italy have first-round bye).
West European zone: Wales, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Switzerland.
   (Wales have first-round bye).
African zone: Ivory Coast, Namibia, Kenya, Morocco, Tunisia,
   United Arab Emirates, Zimbabwe.
American zone: Argentina, Chile, USA, Paraguay, Uruguay, Bermuda.
Asian zone: Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Hong Kong, Malaysia,
   Singapore, Sri Lanka, Thailand.
Oceanic zone: Fiji, Tonga.
(Other countries to be announced).

----
Graham
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: ahughes@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Alun Hughes)
Subject: Rugby Result
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 19:56:30 GMT

Can anyone send me the result of the recent game between East Wales and West
Wales? I write a monthly sports report for a Welsh newspaper here in North
America - not the easiest thing when you're not on the spot - and I'm missing
that result. My deadline is due, so if anyone has the result I'd appreciate
a response a.s.a.p. Many thanks.

Alun Hughes
Brock University, Canada
ahughes@spartan.ac.brocku.ca
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 10:51:02 -0500 
From: Cecil Way <cw2w+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: 5 Nations 1994


I already have the 1993 schedule for Wales home games for the 5 nations.
 What I need now is the schedule for 1994.  Is it possible that anyone
knows it this far in advance?  If someone does, please tell me because
it would make my club's tour planning complete. 

Cheers.

Cecil

cw2w

Organization: Philosophy, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Date: Fri,  8 Jan 1993 13:20:41 -0500 
From: Andrew Heaton <ah3f+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Some RFL results

I have just returned to the USA from England,so here are all the results
I can remember.
Regal trophy 3rd rd St.Helens 6 Castleford 10 (I think)
 Saints had prop Kevin Ward sent off after 5 minutes .St.Ellis scored
the 1st Cas try after Quirk and Lyon made a mess of fielding a
kick.Saints responded just before halftime with a try from Quirk which
gave them the lead.Early in the 2nd half Cas scored what turned out to
be the winning try when Nikau gave a good pass for Smith to score.
The other semifinalists are Wigan,Hull and Bradford.Wigan beat Hull 19-4
in the first semi,cas&Bradford are due to play on Sat 9 Jan.
Leeds beat Halifax and Cas in the league (scoring about 40 points both
times) and are at last starting to look like a good team moving up to
midtable in the league.
The big result over xmas was St.Helens' 41-6 thrashing of Wigan on 27
Dec.It was a game Saints had to win to keep in touch with the league
leaders ,Wigan.
 Wigan actually took the lead early on when a good break by Platt was
well supported  and led to Botica scoring in the corner .Botica also
kicked the conversion to give Wigan a 6-0 lead.Saints came back strongly
and Hunte scored the first try forcing his way in the corner from a good
Shane Cooper pass.Nickle    scored the 2nd playing the ball to himself
close to the Wigan line and just managing to get the ball over the
line.Hunte scored the 3rd following a great break by the fullback Dave
Lyon and Joynt scored the 4th for Saints from close range following a
clever reverse pass from Dwyer.With a penalty from Loughlin this made
the halftime score 24-6.Wigan had prop Kelvin Skerret sent off in the
second half following a high challenge with his elbow on Jarrod
McCracken (Skerret has since received a 5 match ban for this).Also in
the 2nd half,there where 3 sinbinnings .First Nickle and Platt were sent
off for fighting and then Saints also had Mann sinbinned for preventing
a quick tap penulty by Wigan. Saints scored 3 further tries through
Lyon,Nickle and Ropati and also a drop goal towards the end from
O'Donnel.
Wigan also lost on Tuesday 5 Jan to Warrington (I think the score was
11-4) and Saints beat Leigh 64-9 on Wed 6 Jan.
    The last few weeks have seen alot of games called off due to frozen
pitches.
  
                               Andy
From: bruce@siesoft.co.uk (Bruce Beadle)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: England side v France
Date: 5 Jan 93 19:02:03 GMT
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf Information Systems Ltd.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

bruce@siesoft.co.uk (Bruce Beadle) writes:

: England side for the first 5 Nations game on Saturday week at Twickers,
: (from memory)
: 
: Webb, Hunter, Carling, Guscott, Underwood R., Andrew, Morris,
: Leonard, Moore, Probyn, Dooley, Bayfield, Teague, Winterbottom, Clarke.
: Replacements; DeGlanville, Bates, Olver, Ubogu, Rodber.
  +Stuart Barnes (oops).
: 
: No real surprises, Probyn really *had* to play, John Hall of Bath was
: in contention as blind side flanker but Teague has the experience. You
: can bet Ian Hunter will not risk injuring himself playing Soccer in the
: next two weeks ;-)
: 

--
bruce@siesoft.co.uk   Bruce C. Beadle, SNI, Bracknell RG12 8FZ England.
Phone : +44-344-850485 (Desk).  |  +44-344-862222 (Switchboard)
"Do you really think that's wise?" - Sgt Wilson, Dad's Army.
From: bruce@siesoft.co.uk (Bruce Beadle)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: RU Results 9th Jan.
Date: 11 Jan 93 12:29:04 GMT
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf Information Systems Ltd.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Courage Clubs Championship

First Division

Bath		61, Rugby		 7
London Irish	 6, Gloucester		18
London Scottish	10, West Hartlepool	15
Northampton	12, Leicester		13
Orrell		18, Harlequins		16
Sracens		 9, Wasps		13

		P	W	Pts.
Wasps		7	7	14
Bath		7	6	12
Leicester	8	6	12
Northampton	7	5	10
Bristol		7	4	 8
Lndn Irish	8	4	 8
Harlequins	8	3	 7
Gloucester	7	3	 6
Orrell		7	3	 6
Lndn Scottish	8	2	 5
W. Hartlepool	7	2	 4
Saracens	8	1	 2
Rugby		7	1	 2

Four teams go down this year, things look bleak for poor old Sarries.

Second Division

Blackheath	18, Rosslyn Park	14
Coventry	13, Richmond		18
Newc. Gosforth	17, Wakefield		20
Nottingham	19, Fylde		 8
Sale		 6, Moseley		13
Waterloo	28, Bedford		 8

		P	W	Pts.
Waterloo	8	7	14
Nottingham	8	6	12
Newc. Gosforth	7	6	12
Wakefield	8	5	11
Sale		8	4	 9

--
bruce@siesoft.co.uk   Bruce C. Beadle, SNI, Bracknell RG12 8FZ England.
Phone : +44-344-850485 (Desk).  |  +44-344-862222 (Switchboard)
"Do you really think that's wise sir?" - Sgt Wilson, Dad's Army
From: bruce@siesoft.co.uk (Bruce Beadle)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: England side v France
Date: 4 Jan 93 12:21:38 GMT
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf Information Systems Ltd.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

England side for the first 5 Nations game on Saturday week at Twickers,
(from memory)

Webb, Hunter, Carling, Guscott, Underwood R., Andrew, Morris,
Leonard, Moore, Probyn, Dooley, Bayfield, Teague, Winterbottom, Clarke.
Replacements; DeGlanville, Bates, Olver, Ubogu, Rodber.

No real surprises, Probyn really *had* to play, John Hall of Bath was
in contention as blind side flanker but Teague has the experience. You
can bet Ian Hunter will not risk injuring himself playing Soccer in the
next two weeks ;-)

--
bruce@siesoft.co.uk   Bruce C. Beadle, SNI, Bracknell RG12 8FZ England.
Phone : +44-344-850485 (Desk).  |  +44-344-862222 (Switchboard)
"Baldrick, your brain is like the great four headed haddock eating
fish monster of Aberdeen - it doesn't exist!"
From: klootzak@carson.u.washington.edu (Michael A. Stuyt)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: What about Aussie Rugby League?
Keywords: Scotland, team
Date: 9 Jan 93 01:44:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1ilamjINNt9g
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

I'm trying to get hold of Aussie R.L. scores and perhaps get a fantasy league going.  Any takers?


email to 

klootzak@carson.u.washington.edu
From: cmb@epcc.ed.ac.uk (C M Brough)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Scottish trial
Date: 5 Jan 93 11:09:42 GMT
Followup-To: rec.sport.rugby
Organization: Edinburgh Parallel Computing Centre

A pretty poor showing all round at the Scottish last Saturday does not
augur well for the forthcoming 5 nations. Pretty much nobody shone,
and play was often scrappy and lacking in basic skills. The selectors,
I reckon, will have to bite the bullet and select an inexperienced
team that has a chance of developing for the future rather than trying
to cobble something together that might win a game or two. 

Its looking more likely that Doddie Weir will be moved to number 8,
with perhaps Shade Munro coming in as lock, though the permutations at
lock are many. Alan Watt coped with prop, and may get the nod from the
selectors who have been trying to push him to prop for a couple of
seasons now.

Team is announced on Wednesday.

__________________________________________________________________________
Colin Brough    cmb@epcc.ed.ac.uk      Edinburgh Parallel Computing Centre
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby