HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nichols@spss.com (David Nichols)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Subject: Re: Finding critical F
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:45:10 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

In article <STAT-L%92121316120756@VM1.MCGILL.CA> dick darlington <dick_darlington@QMRELAY.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU> writes:
>                                                                    12:42 PM
>  OFFICE MEMO                                                 Time:
>                      Subject:
>                      Finding critical F                            12-08-92
>                                                              Date:
>
>In response to Brian Day's question, one can use Systat's FIF (F inverse
>function) operator to find critical values of F for any specified values of
>alpha, df1 and df2.  Day specified df1 = 278 and df2 = 500, but did not specify
>alpha.  Thus I entered into Systat's editor a column headed ALPHA containing
>the four values .05, .025, .01, .005.  Then I issued the command
>>let f = fif(1-alpha, 278, 500)
>Systat returned the following four values of F: 1.187, 1.227, 1.275, 1.308.
>Dick Darlington, Psychology, Cornell

SPSS has an FCDF function in its MATRIX procedure, which is available on
mainframe and Unix platforms 4.0 and after, as well as Windows and (I think)
other micro platforms other than PC+. 

matrix
compute x=1-fcdf(value,df1,df2)
print x

is the syntax.

--
 David Nichols        Senior Statistical Support Specialist         SPSS, Inc.
 Phone: (312) 329-3684     Internet:  nichols@spss.com     Fax: (312) 329-3657
*******************************************************************************
 Any correlation between my views and those of SPSS is strictly due to chance.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 09:29:01 -0700
From:         Byron Davis <byron@OSIRIS.USI.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: uses of factor analysis

Steve Blinkhorn's comment again expose many misuses which tools can be put to,
as well as some interesting comentary on how thorough one's methodology needs
to be to get published in some journals. However, these criticisms could in
many respects be applied to all statistical techniques (and statistical
software packages).

Statistical application or applied statistics without thorough grounding in
substantive reality is miss-applied and misused. Further, use of statistical
output from any program without sufficient background and study in the
appropriateness of its application again is misuse. Publication of such studies
through the peer review process is an embarassement to everyone in the field.

However, I must emphasize again that these failings are not the failings of
statistical packages or statistical techniques. They are the failings of
particular individuals (e.g., students, professors, authors, reviewers and
editors). No tool once made, is safe from misuse but the answer to this
problem is not to destroy all tools, it is to better educate the users.

Happy Holidays and good teaching

I can't resist quoting some popular philosophy which is appropriate for this
topic and many more. "It is only through a change in human consciousness that
the world can be transformed".

Byron L. Davis
From: ASHRAF@UNC.BITNET (Mohammad A Chaudhary)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Subject: subscription
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:37:00 GMT
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subscribe mohammad ashraf chaudhary   (ashraf@unc.bitnet)
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Organization: Saint Bonaventure University
Priority:     normal
X-Mailer:     Pegasus Mail v2.3 (R4).
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Sun, 13 Dec 1992 21:41:31 EST
Reply-To:     rpaluch@sbu.edu
From:         "Rocky Paluch S.B.U" <RPALUCH@SBU.EDU>
Subject:      repeated measures

What are some options for doing contrasts with repeated measures and
unequal n?  Is there anything similair to a Newman-Kuels method, or
could I use it on a repeated measures design?

Rocky Paluch
rpaluch@sbu.edu
From: nichols@spss.com (David Nichols)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Subject: Re: PC software for proportional hazards model
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:09:36 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

In article <199212141435.AA06865@mail.swip.net> MAGNUS STENBECK <mastfoh%tellus.sos.se%sos@MAIL.SWIP.NET> writes:
>I am analyzing survival time for several major diagnostic groups of
>cancer. The data is from the Swedish cancer registry. The file
>contains some 1 million observations - all malignant cancers
>discovered in Sweden since 1958 are included in the material.
>I am analyzing the material using a 486-50 Mhz PC using a
>regression approach, i.e. logit analyses on the
>likelihood of surviving 1, 5, or 10 years, and censored exponential
>regression models predicting survival time. I also want to use
>proportional (and possibly non-proportional) hazards models. I
>normally work with GAUSS which is fast enough to do analyses of up
>to 100,000 cases at a time, but I cannot find applications written
>in GAUSS for the hazards models. Does anyone know of some good
>software for the micro computer which does the proportional hazards
>model and which is fast enough to handle, say, 5 explanatory
>variables and 100,000 observations?
>(SAS, for instance, is not useful because of the excessive time SAS
>takes to analyze 50-100,000 cases on a micro computer ....)
>
>Magnus Stenbeck                   Email: MASTFOH at TELLUS.SOS.SE
>Center for Epidemiology
>National Board of Health and Welfare
>Banergatan 16
>S-106 30 Stockholm
>SWEDEN

SPSS for Windows will do proportional hazards regression and should be
able to handle the size data set you're describing. I don't know exactly
how long it would take, but you might contact someone in Sales and see
about a demo copy to check it out.

--
 David Nichols        Senior Statistical Support Specialist         SPSS, Inc.
 Phone: (312) 329-3684     Internet:  nichols@spss.com     Fax: (312) 329-3657
*******************************************************************************
 Any correlation between my views and those of SPSS is strictly due to chance.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Sun, 20 Dec 1992 12:48:37 CST
From:         Mickey Waxman <MICKEY@UKANVM.CC.UKANS.EDU>
Subject:      To Clinic Workers

  This is to Stat-L'ers who work in medical or mental health clinics
         (everybody else:  I apologize for wasting your space).

  Clinic workers,  I'd greatly appreciate some information.  Please e-mail
  directly to me - -   Mickey@Ukanvm   or  Mickey@Ukanvm.cc.ukans.edu.

  I wish to know how the clinic uses computers for storing patient/client
  info:     1. What kind of data is stored.
            2. What software is used.  Name names, please.
            3. Describe computer system - - mainframe, mini, LAN....
  A short, quick answer will satisfy me hugely.  Thank you very much.
                                          Mickey Waxman
                                      University of Kansas
                                               USA
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:12:27 -0500
From:         "Michael H. Prager" <mprager@PONTUS.DNET>
Subject:      RE: Randomness

Erik Olson of SUNY Brockport asks:

    I am currently searching for a large number of digits of the square root
of two. The purpose of my request is to use the digits to test for randomness
and other statistical attributes. I would appreciate the list in file form,
but if someone can give me an algorithm then I will try to generate the
list myself....

Reply:

(This was sent first to eo7646@acspr1.acs.brockport.edu, but bounced.)

What do you mean by "a large number"? Many analytical math packages will do
arithmetic to arbitrary precision. Two I have used are REDUCE (on the
mainframe) and DERIVE (which costs < $200 and runs on the PC). If you just
need a few thousand digits, let me know and I'll send you DERIVE output from
the PC. More than that, I think you'll need a fancier setup than I am using.
...Mike Prager
*====================================================*
*  Michael H. Prager                                 *
*  U.S. National Marine Fisheries Service            *
*  Southeast Fisheries Science Center                *
*  75 Virginia Beach Drive                           *
*  Miami, Florida  33149  USA                        *
*  Telephone:   305-361-4218                         *
*  Internet:    mprager%pontus.span@umigw.miami.edu  *
*====================================================*

P.S. The first 1,000 digits I get are:

1.4142135623730950488016887242096980785696718753769480731766797379
907324784621070388503875343276415727350138462309122970249248360558
507372126441214970999358314132226659275055927557999505011527820605
714701095599716059702745345968620147285174186408891986095523292304
843087143214508397626036279952514079896872533965463318088296406206
152583523950547457502877599617298355752203375318570113543746034084
988471603868999706990048150305440277903164542478230684929369186215
805784631115966687130130156185689872372352885092648612494977154218
334204285686060146824720771435854874155657069677653720226485447015
858801620758474922657226002085584466521458398893944370926591800311
388246468157082630100594858704003186480342194897278290641045072636
881313739855256117322040245091227700226941127573627280495738108967
504018369868368450725799364729060762996941380475654823728997180326
802474420629269124859052181004459842150591120249441341728531478105
803603371077309182869314710171111683916581726889419758716582152128
22951848847
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From: steve@prd.co.uk (Steve Blinkhorn)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Subject: uses of factor analysis
Keywords: factor analysis
Date: 12 Dec 92 08:38:42 GMT
Organization: Psychometric Research & Development Ltd

The trouble with factor analysis is not that it *never* works, but
that by and large you can't tell whether it has revealed a deep truth
about the universe or just produced some nice numbers.   There are
some notorious cases (colour perception is one) where factor analysis
can produce results that look convincing in terms of the criteria for
acceptability normally used, but which map not at all onto physical
reality in any useful way.   So while *sometimes* you get a stunning
vindication, factor analysis (and PCA) doesn't tell you in advance
that it's done a good job.

Much of the junk in the psychological literature on personality
measurement (and a lot of it is junk) arises from the deep faith
earnest authors have in the capacity of SPSS and the like to create
theory out of data by means of an eigenstructure.   And a lot of the
packaged software around will cheerfully analyse hopelessly defective
data (e.g. Heywood cases, ipsative data) and produce neat obliquely
rotated BS.

So get your graduate students to write their own programs (or to use
SC to build a program out of its elements).   That way at least
they'll develop a conscience.   And then start worrying about why we
think it's sensible to factor analyse correlations *at all*.
"You mean you collect all this data?"
"Yes"
"And then you standardise all the variances to be equal?"
"Yes"
"And then you decide which are the important factors on the basis of how
many standardised variables' worth of variance they explain?"
"Yes"
"But you don't have a method of deciding which varaibles to include in
the first place?"
"No"
"And then you publish a paper with just the rotated factor loadings?"
"Yes"
"But you publish a list of percentages of variance explained by factor
number, where the factor numbers are unrotated factors?"
"But in SPSS, what it gives you is...."
"What did they teach you in graduate school?"
"Not a lot........"

---
Steve Blinkhorn (steve@prd.co.uk)
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Sun, 13 Dec 1992 21:32:48 MST
From:         Gene Glass <ATGVG@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      SAS vs. SPSS: "Tastes great!" "Less filling!"

     So many people kindly responded to my request for ideas about
the relative merits of SAS and SPSS last week that I feel compelled
to share with all the results of the "polling." There was much
activity off the list on this topic. Many people wrote to say that
the question was miscast, that it was an apples and oranges
situation, that both SAS and SPSS were inferior to other libraries,
that teaching ought to be done with MINITAB or STATVIEW or DATA
DESK and the like. All of these points were well made and taken to
heart. But many people expressed an overall, general statement of
their preference, and I see no reason not to lay out the numbers:
     Of over fifty persons who expressed a preference for either
SAS or SPSS, SAS was preferred 2 to 1.

     This election was not as interesting or useful as the very
sophisticated analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of the two
libraries. SAS was lauded for data handling capabilities; some
insisted that SPSS was more teachable. SPSS handles survey analysis
well; SAS is better for other kinds of analysis, but BMDP has great
analysis capabilities. One person prepares data files with SAS, but
analyzes with BMDP. SPSS's clunky data handling features have been
improved in recent versions, some maintained. And so the commentary
goes.

     I excerpted and edited over 400 lines of good analysis of the
relative strengths of SAS and SPSS. Unfortunately, I compiled the
comments without attributing them to their authors; I hope no one
will feel slighted; it would have doubled the editing time. I am
reluctant to send it out over the several LISTSERVs to which I
posted the original query due to the ever-worrisome bandwidth
economies--but hey!, what's all this agonizing about bandwidth.
Have you read some of those USENET newsgroups like ALT.BACKRUBS or
ALT.MCDONALDS.KETCHUP lately? Who's telling them to get their
garbage off of our collective bandwidth? Forgive me...I digress.

     Rather than send the 400 lines of comments about SAS v SPSS to
everyone, I have archived the file on the LISTSERV at
ASUACAD.BITNET. It is simple for you to get a copy. Just send an
email letter to LISTSERV@ASUACAD.BITNET that contains the single
line
                          GET STAT NOTE

     The file will be sent to you within minutes. (If you are on a
BITNET node, you may send the message (GET STAT NOTE) to ASUACAD
interactively, via TELL LISTSERV AT ASUACAD on an IBM running CMS
or via SEND on a VAX.)

     Thanks to everyone for their help.

_______________________________________________________________________

GENE V GLASS                                    ATGVG AT ASUACAD.BITNET
COLLEGE OF EDUCATION                            ATGVG AT ASUACVAX.BITNET
ARIZONA STATE UNIVERSITY                        INTERNET ADDRESS:
Tempe, AZ 85287-2411                            ATGVG@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU
602-965-2692
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Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 08:18:44 EST
From:         Stephen Baker <sbaker@UMASSMED.UMMED.EDU>
Subject:      Re: IOT
              17, 92 10:58 am

I hadn't heard of Intra occular trauma, but had heard  of reference to

IOI or Intra Occular Inference



Stephen P. Baker                               phone:  (508) 856-2625
Lecturer in Biostatistics                              (508) 856-3131 fax
Department of Academic Computing                       (413) 253-3923 home
University of Massachusetts Medical School     bitnet: sbaker@umassmed.bitnet
55 Lake Avenue North                         internet: sbaker@umassmed.ummed.edu
Worcester, MA 01655                                rf:  -. .---- --. - --.-
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
From: pmk@busadm1.cba.hawaii.edu (PAUL KAZENSKI)
Subject: Econometrics problem: biased vs efficient estimates
Organization: College Business Administration, University of Hawaii
Distribution: sci.math.stat
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 01:00:53 GMT

We are estimating a large number of systems using a recursive 3sls 
(yes, it has been verified that this is a statistically sound approach).

Outputs (estimates) from one set of equations are being used as 
exogenous inputs to a second set, and the hypotheses being tested
rely upon the coefficients obtained in the second set.  An econometrician
confirmed the soundness of the approach, but notes that the resulting 
estimates, though efficient, are biased as compared to using a 
simultaneous estimation procedure.  A procedure like SUR, under the
circumstances, would provide unbiased but less efficient estimates.

The question:  is there some way of determining, without remodelling and
rerunning the entire set of systems simultaneously, to what degree the
estimates may be biased?  I am hoping to be able to say "the estimates are
efficient, and biased by at most XXX."  Any thoughts?  

A related question:  does anyone have a reasonably clear explanation for 
*why* the estimates obtained this way would be biased?  This one eludes me.

By the way, statistical analysis is being done under SAS 6.04.

Thanks in advance.  Direct response is welcome.  I will summarize if 
there is interest.
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:09:06 WET
From:         "R.A.Reese" <R.A.Reese@SEQ.HULL.AC.UK>
Subject:      A gem.

Nothing to do with statistics, except that we deal in relative certainties - I
 found this
in a "definitive" law book.

"The question whether that question was one of fact or law has been said
to be 'certainly one of opinion.'"
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Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:05:04 EST
From:         "Christine M. Schroeder" <CHRISTIS@PUCC.BITNET>

Unsubscribe Christine Schroeder
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 12:31:16 EST
From:         UYU@NIHCU.BITNET

please unsubscribe me
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 10:54:41 -0800
From:         JAMES@UCRAC2.UCR.EDU
Subject:      RE: SAS vs SPSS

Nelson Pardee makes very interesting comments about stat packages. His comments
on support, in fact extend to other to other packages as well. As far as this
 isconcerned, I doubt that there is abetter supported package on the face of the
earth today than SAS. That is what we pay the licence fee for (among many many
other features). Sometime ago, I called tech support of another stat package
when I was having trouble with lagging data. Their 'tech support' faxed me a
page from the manual -- the same one in my hands, from which I had been reading
to them!!! Their manual is poorly written in the 1st place (I do not think they
have any technical writing folks at that address), and the product is very
poorly supported. Why was the package being carried? Well, this ONE professor
wanted it and he paid for it too. Obviously, after his retirement the future
of the package at the site would be in doubt. It is true that profs can only
(and should only?) teach what they know.

A package that has good support as SAS does, that invests in R&D as
 significantly as SAS does, that stays current while avoiding 'statistical fads'
 (we see it
here all the time: Can package X spit out the james statistic? When'll they do
it? etc), is bound to have a significant following. Does this mean SAS is
perfect? No way. But it is the best general purpose package on the market at
the present time.

james ssemakula
u.c. riverside.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 11:49:26 +1200
From:         brobinso@LEVEN.APPCOMP.UTAS.EDU.AU
Subject:      Re: Populist vs. Puritan Statistics

Duncan Murdoch:
> . . . .
>spreadsheets.  Now that most spreadsheets allow external code to be linked
>in to provide new functions, there's no reason someone couldn't put together
>a package that could do everything Minitab can do, but in a spreadsheet.
>That would, in my opinion, be a far better setting for teaching statistics.
>
>Duncan Murdoch
>dmurdoch@mast.queensu.ca
>
>
It's already been done -- in a form. STATVIEW and JMP both use a
spreadsheet format for their data input, only they don't support all the
usual spreadsheet functions. And rows and columns are treated differently.

For what it's worth.

Barrie.


--
Barrie Robinson,                  |email: B.Robinson@appcomp.utas.edu.au
University of Tasmania at Launceston.  |phone:  (61)(03)260211
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Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:23:52 ITA
From:         FACCIOLI@ITOCSIVM.BITNET

Does anybody have news on a package called
Statistical Navigator?
            Thanks GF.
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 10:45:56 WET
From:         "R.A.Reese" <R.A.Reese@SEQ.HULL.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Spreadsheets and graphics

> But you don't have to write a program in a spreadsheet language:  you just
> point at the data and ask for a graph, or ...

No I didn't intend to get into the spreadsheet debate again, BUT if you will
 bring up
the Achilles heel of my hobbyhorse and rub salt into it ...

When Excell was fairly new two people on separate occasions demonstrated to me
 how "easy"
it was - you just type some numbers, highlight a range, click on the graph icon,
 and
gee wizz ain't that a pretty graph.  Answer: yes it's pretty as an abstract
 pattern but
as a meaningful display of the data it's as likely to be useful as the output
 from those
"AI" programs that have a vocabulary of technical words and a set of rules for
 putting
them together - syntax OK, meaningfulness zilch.

How do we beat it into the head of computer users that ease of use does not
 exactly equate
with being instantaneously successful? That flexibility is required for all but
 completely
specified tasks, and that flexibility necessitates THOUGHT to make CHOICES?  The
 wretched
Excell graphics have rules for choosing X and Y - how many users will READ the
 manual,
REMEMBER the rules, and RECOGNIZE when to override them?

Graphics are too serious to be treated as trivia or graffitti.  Too many lies
 are told every
day using data and graphics.  Shame is, many of the people telling them don't
 know they're
lies.

Gosh I feel warmer.

--
(R.) Allan Reese        Janet:          r.a.reese@uk.ac.hull
Head of Applications    Direct voice:   +44 482 465296
Computer Centre         Voice messages: +44 482 465685
Hull University         Fax:            +44 482 466441
Hull HU6 7RX, U.K.
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Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 14:39:00 EST
From:         BTD0@NIORDS1.EM.CDC.GOV
Subject:      extrapolation of F statistics

Stat-Lers --

I am trying to calculate a critical F value that cannot be located in an F
table.  The F value I seek corresponds to 278/500 df.  How do I extrapolate
an F value using these values??

Thank you.

                              Brian Day
                              BTD0@NIORDS1.EM.CDC.GOV
                              Phone: (304) 291-4501
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.stat-l
From: sallyz@stein.u.washington.edu (Sally Zitzer)
Subject: Bradley-Terry paired comparisons
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:40:58 GMT

Hi folks,

   I have a customer who needs to do "a likelihood test for the
Bradley-Terry model of paired comparisons".  She says it is a
"ranking test".

   Does anyone know of a software package which does this test?

Thank you,

Sally Zitzer
Statistical Package Consultant
Computing and Communications
University of Washington
Seattle, WA

sallyz@u.washington.edu
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