From: mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee)
Subject: Re: Why? (was Re: THE MIND OF THE BIBLE BELIEVER)
Organization: Royal Roads Military College, Victoria, B.C.
Distribution: world,public
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:00:25 GMT


In article <C0JtBJ.6F7@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v22964qs@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Mike Cluff) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan8.050042.6458@julian.uwo.ca>, roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Eric Roberts) writes...
|> >In article <C0I3v7.82E@acsu.buffalo.edu> v22964qs@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Mike Cluff) writes:
|> 
|> >>Then why didn't he create only those who would
|> >>eventually "choose" to worship him with their Free Will?  
|> 
|> >If he created only those who would choose to be with him, those people would
|> >not have a choice. 
|> 
|> Mikel Evins beat me to the punch on this reply.  However, I'll still put my
|> spin on it:
|> 
|> You miss my point.  An omnipotent, omniscient god would be able to create a
|> mental "roster" of those who would and who wouldn't be with him even *before*
|> creating the universe.  Why even bother with the unbelievers, then?  The ones
|> who choose would still have free will.  Besides, the larger question of god's
|> providing us with minimal evidence of his own existence still hangs over the
|> debate.  
|> 
I think you know what you're trying to say.  You're asking why does God create
those people who He knows will not believe in Him.  God makes use of even those
who do not believe in Him in that they will influence and affect the lives of 
those who DO believe.  He gives everyone the gift of life to use and abuse as
they would choose to.  Anyone can choose to believe in God, but sadly, not every-
one will.  Choosing to believe is not always a conscious choice but I think that
the willingness to believe is a conscious choice.  If you're mind is closed to
anything I have to say, then I can tell you nothing.  That's true of any subject
matter, not just Christianity.

 
|> 
|> Again, you miss my point.  God told us what we are expected to do through an
|> old book that to potential unbelievers is undistinguishable from other dusty
|> old religious books.  It is simply unfair to make oneself scarce and then make
|> the Biggest Test of All Eternity hang in the balance. 
|> 
|> Imagine a neighborhood where an old man lives in what looks like an abandoned
|> old house.  This man shows absolutely no evidence that he even lives there; he
|> leaves his lights off and never leaves the house. Thus, the other neighbors
|> treat the house as if it doesn't have any tenants, and go on with their lives,
|> having block parties and the like. Meanwhile, the old man seethes, feeling that
|> the other people have ignored him.  Finally he snaps and goes on a murderous
|> spree, killing all the neighbors.  When the police ask for the reason, he says
|> "all I wanted was a relationship with them."  Hey, I'd jail him. 
|> 
|> ******************************************************************************
|> For God so loved the world that He gave Man Free Will and then got pissed when
|> we didn't meet his arbitrary standards.  Oh, and he had his Son offed when he
|> realized how impossible those standards were.  -- Michael 4:23
|> ******************************************************************************
I'm assuming that you're saying that God is the "old man" in the house.  Well,
this "old man" has sent out news of His existence through the prophets but the 
people did not wish to listen and preferred to indulge in their block parties.
The "old man" sent out His one and only Son to proclaim His existence.  Not only
that, but the "old man" was inviting all the people in the neighbourhood into his
house for a Great Banquet, free of charge.  But the neighbourhood people didn't
want to go to the man's house and eventually got tired of listening to his 
son so they crucified him.  You tell me, who should be arrested?  
Xref: sparky alt.atheism:25134 talk.religion.misc:25282