HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fugitt@tempus.Corp.Sun.COM (Lem Fugitt - Nihon Sun US Office)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops
Subject: Re: Your chance to spend someone else's $$$
Date: 4 Jan 93 17:57:09 GMT
Reply-To: fugitt@tempus.Corp.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: tempus.corp.sun.com

In article 21570@vpnet.chi.il.us, cgordon@vpnet.chi.il.us (gordon hlavenka) writes:
<=>Does anyone know if Sharp has fixed the power problem that was on the
<=>original Wizard?  I have to support a couple of these for some
<=>executives, and by the time the "BAT" indicator comes on, there's not
<=>enough power left to run the PC-LINK for a backup before changing the
<=>batteries!  (Stupid!)  If the OZ-9600 is like this too, there's no way
<=>I'd buy it.  I'm sure it's fixed by now, though...?

You didn't mention the Wizard model number that had this problem. I've
used a 8200 for over a year. The 8200 has two sets of batteries and an
internal switch. I've never lost any data while replacing the batteries on
my Wizard. There are also a couple of alternatives - Sharp has a power
transformer that plugs into the Wizard and there is also an external
battery pack that holds four AA cells. You should be able to use either one 
to power the unit while you backup prior to changing the batteries.

---
====================================================
| lem.fugitt@Corp.Sun.COM   Nihon Sun U.S. Office  |
| (415) 688-9570 (Voice)    (415) 688-9025 (Fax)   |
|        "The map is not the territory"            |
From: ewv@craycos.com (Eric Varsanyi)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops
Subject: Re: external power on 95
Date: 8 Jan 93 03:56:13 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1ii9pbINNlgn@uwm.edu> anthony@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Anthony J Stieber) writes:
>I'm one of the editors of the HP95 FAQ list and I posted that article.
>What would be a good power supply to use?  It sounds like both of those
>Radio Shack power supplies will put out close to 12 volts on a 95.  I
>mentioned that power supply because that's what someone else said
>worked.  I'm open to other suggestions.

I plug my HP95 into a Cessna-172 lighter plug on a regular basis (13.8V
and really noisy) with no ill effects. I also plug into my Ford Explorer
electrical system (also 13.8) for many hours at a time with no ill
effects.

I did build a filter (big coil and cap) for the airplane, the ignition
noise worried me a bit. Still, I've never had any problems with the 95
other than the clock resetting to Jan 1980 on a fairly regular basis
(this happens on batteries or HP's AC power supply, and happened before
I ever plugged into the 13.8 so I don't think its related).

-Eric
From: anthony@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Anthony J Stieber)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops
Subject: Re: Tiny, 24x80 flat terminal.
Date: 6 Jan 1993 04:08:30 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <3958@key.COM> rburns@key.COM (Randy Burns) writes:

>How was this done? Is there a graphics mode of the 95LX which has 640x200 
>resolution? My impression was that the 95LX screen was something like
>320x128 resolution-I don't see how you could get a readable font with
>4x5 bits allowed per character. It would be _very_ nice to have a readable
>fast 80 character font for viewing files and such.

The 95 display is 240x128.  The fnt80x25 program uses 3x5 character
cells with no space between the cells.  The text is actually quite
readable although I have never tried using it for more than a few
minutes at a time.  Similar fonts have been used used on older machines
like the Atari and Commodore home computers.  Discussions still come up
on the topic there.

Here's a sample, stand back about 15 feet to get the full effect :-)

   #        #    ##   #
################ # ######
  ##  ##  # ######## ## #
####  ##  # ##   # #### #
################ #   ## #

#####  #### ########## #
# ## ##  # ##  #  #  # #
#### ##  # ### ## # ####
# ## ##  # ##  #  # ## #
# ###  #### ####  #### #

Ouch, I got a headache just typing that up.  If you can't see it, it's
"abcdefgh" and "ABCDEFGH".  There's a 60x20 program that doesn't
squeeze it together as much.  Larger machines like the Sharp, Zeos,
Fujtsu, Memorex, etc have full 640x200 CGA displays and are much easier
to look at for 80x25 displays, although the text is still tiny.
--
<-:(= Anthony Stieber	anthony@csd4.csd.uwm.edu   uwm!uwmcsd4!anthony
Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops
From: john blue <jblue@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Psion organiser II model LZ
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:25:50 GMT

Hi,
I received a used Psion organiser II Model LZ for Christmas. I would
like to get more information about the output port. The 2 manuals have
nothing on pinouts. It is rectangle female 16 pin port. 
Or if anyone has the communications datapak or knows of a way to get
data into and out of the organiser I would welcome a response.
Thanks,
John Blue
jblue@silver.ucs.indiana.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops
From: Hartwig.Schieck@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de (Hartwig Schieck)
Subject: Re: external power on 95
Organization: University of Oldenburg, Germany
Distribution: comp
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 01:16:06 GMT

I have an additional question : should 'plus' be on the pin in the middle
of the AC connector and 'minus' at its side, or vice versa ?

                                Hartwig Schieck

Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops
From: ppicot@irus.rri.uwo.ca (Paul Picot)
Subject: Re: Sharp Palmtops???
Organization: University of Western Ontario, London
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 21:21:26 GMT


padecoo@flash.LakeheadU.Ca (Pete "Dragon" Decoo) writes:

>  Does anyone out there have a Sharp palmtop??  If you do could you tell
>me about it.  I saw some for sale this Christmas.  it was a model 3100 ,
>w/ 2MB Ram.  They were selling them for about $500 CDN.  Is that a good
>price??


YES!  I just bought that model in Ottawa for that price on Boxing Day.
I had been looking for just that sort of machine for a few months.
A couple of weeks before christmas I was quoted C$1250 for the PC-3100,
and C$950 for the PC-3000 (1 MB RAM model).  Needless to say, when I
saw it for that price, I got it on the spot.  Mail order price from one
company in PC-magazine this week (sorry, I don't remember the name,
Hunter, maybe) was US$875 for the PC-3000.

I am beginning to like this machine.  A lot.  The internal applications
are OK, but slow.  The editor is good, but virtually useless on files
bigger than 20K or so, because the load times are so long (about 1K/sec).
Saving is quick.  It has a Lotus 1-2-3 clone, again slow, but it works fine.
Some functions aren't included.  I'm not a spreadsheet jock, so I can't
comment any more on it.  It also has a usable diary/scheduler that I might
grow to depend on.

Laplink is in ROM, and has the standard laplink bootstrap load technique.
(issue MODE CTTY COMx on the desktop, and laplink will load itself onto
it - great idea and it works well).  I just did a 750 KB backup in less
than 90 seconds.

The keyboard is great (for a palmtop) - about 75% size, with 1.5 mm key
travel.  Easy to touch-type on, even if it is a little slower than a good
desktop one.

It has 2 PCMCIA (1.0) slots, serial, parallel and expansion (for floppy)
ports.

It uses 3 AA batteries.  If you're just typing, with the machine set to
low-power mode, they last a surprisingly long time (well, a week).  If
you use Laplink, or turn off the low power mode, you only get about 6
hours.  Unfortunately, Sharp wants C$70 for the (special) AC adapter.
The only thing special about it is that it is very well regulated and
has a non-standard connector.  I built my own.  Mail me for info if you
want to know how.

I am trying to assemble information about the PC-3x00.  Sharp doesn't
seem to want to allow 3rd party software development -- It's like
pulling teeth to get a BIOS reference manual from them.  Has anybody
had any success getting technical info from Sharp?

I would like to hear from other users of this machine.  Have you any
tips/tricks/favorite utils?  (I've already looked at the archive site)

I am keeping a running log of everything I learn about the machine,
and would be happy to share knowledge with other users



Paul Picot
ppicot@irus.rri.uwo.ca
From: kdale@flatline.sbi.com (Keith Dale)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops
Subject: Re: IR95 is excellent
Date: 6 Jan 93 14:25:51 GMT
Reply-To: kdale@flatline.sbi.com
Distribution: na
Organization: Salomon Inc

In article 1idk4tINN4f@uwm.edu, anthony@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Anthony J Stieber) writes:
>In article <lkk4cuINN50r@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> falk@peregrine.Sun.COM (Ed Falk) writes:
>
>>HP95's have built-in infra-red transmitter/receivers.  Nominally, they're
>>used to communicate with other HP95's.  (Question for the net: anybody
>>have a list of hardware that the HP95 can talk to via the IR port?)
>
>Maybe a list of hardware that it can't talk to would be shorter :-).
>
>I've actually tried, or just heard of, the following devices:
>Hardware		Software
>--------		--------
>HP-48SX			built in Kermit
>Mitshubishi TV		RemCom
>Toshiba TV		RemCom
>Kenwood	stereo		RemCom
>Sony video equipment	
>HP IR Printer		IRPRTSC (print screen only) 
>	 (both models?)

I actually came across as instance where myRemote couldn't learn
my older Sharp VHS remote, but ir95 picked it up without a hitch.
That says to me that the learning algorithm is more robust.

Other stuff ir95 has successfully learned (not mentioned above):

Pioneer CD rack system
Sony 8mm VCR
Sharp VHS VCR

Has anyone tried to have ir95 learn cable company converter box 
remotes?  I seem to remember that some defy most programmable 
URC's because of dual frequencies, or some such...

In any event, ir95 has permanently replaced myRemote on my HP95!
My disk and postcard are in the mail...
---
Keith M. Dale 
Salomon Inc - UNIX Systems Support
(201) 896-7029
kdale@mhnj.sbi.com
From: sturm@fdurt1.fdu.edu (Neal M. Sturm)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops
Subject: Re: external power on 95
Date: 9 Jan 93 21:01:11 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Fairleigh Dickinson University

HP95lx original power supply has 10 volts ac open.

Neal Sturm
sturm@fdu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops
From: fritzj@gauss.ecn.purdue.edu (Fritz Friedlaender)
Subject: Re: external power on 95
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: comp
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:24:06 GMT

There has been much duscussion on power supply voltages for the HP95LX,
with more fiction than fact (HP recommends a range - nowhere do they
say that 12V is too high to maintain. On the contrary, since HP
allows 12V, it must be safe - in their opinion, mine does not count).
I have a simple question to any owner of the "official" HP power
supply who also has a voltmeter: What is the open-circuit voltage
at the terminals of the HP power supply, and is it AC or DC?
Very few "garden variety" power supplies are regulated - an inexpensive
9V supply may have 13V on open circuit. It will give me more confidence
to use my supply if I know what HP does. Remember that the HP95LX, with
1MB, draws about 4.5mA when off (measured on my unit - what are your
values?) from the external power supply. The supply voltage will be
higher at that small load, than at the higher currents with the unit on.
I am looking for a number of responses, to help settle this question.
After you measure the open-circuit voltage, tell us whether disaster
ensued if you now discover that it is well over 12V.
Thank you,
FJF
Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops
From: shawn@fenchurch.mit.edu (Shawn F. Mckay)
Subject: PCC + EXM files
Organization: MIT EECS ECF
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 15:08:12 GMT

Has anyone managed to get PCC to create a SysMgr Compliant program
as yet? I have taken a short look, and it looks like PCC is going
to need to have the .h files hacked for it to work, and some other
stuff done as well.

I may undertake this, but I would REALLY like to avoid re-inventing
the wheel if someone else has already suffered through it...
If you have tried and found it totally unreasonable, I am 
interested in hearing about that as well, (At that point I wont
even try.... :-)).

				Many Thanks,
				 - Shawn
Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops
From: leif@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Leif Eric Johnson)
Subject: Re: 95LX databases
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 09:29:09 GMT

In a previous article shri@unreal.cs.umass.edu (H.Shrikumar) writes:
>
> Over the last weekend I've compiled a database with most of the useful
>parts of the HP95lx documentation, and command documentation for all
>the commands (including debug etc) Each record shows up on the index
>screen with the NAME and USAGE sections, calling up the card shows the
>DESCRIPTION and BUGS also. For extra long entries, the 95Buddy expCard
>features warps me into MEMO-land.  And any entry in an extended record
>(aka expCard) can chain back to another record in the PBK databases,
>hypertext style .. thanx to 95BUddy's Plink.  (Thank Jeff Mattox, my
>registration soon in the mail ... 95Buddy for this alone !) The
>entries are in sort of UNIX man like style, but very brief.
>
>  Also, I found a nice tight FORTH, MINI4th (aka min4th25.arc)
>out on one of the simtel20 mirrors. Only 4K or so makes a very
>small and nice package. I have the entire source documentation of the
>words of mini4th in a PBK database, making a very convinent refernce.
>
>-- shrikumar ( shri@legato.cs.umass.edu )
>


This sounds like a couple of really useful databases.  Any chance of seeing
them posted to the net?  I'd like to see how you managed the chaining...

-Leif
Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops
From: phr@telebit.com (Paul Rubin)
Subject: Re: Hidden "licenses" for software
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 02:32:30 GMT

Rather than all this legal sniping has anyone asked a simpler question:
if the vendor didn't want you to sell the old card after getting
the new one, why didn't they just ask you to return the old one
in order to get the upgrade?

It is, after all, a piece of hardware (rom card) rather than something
like a floppy.
From: mik@hpbbi4.BBN.HP.COM (#Michele Isernia)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 08:45:14 GMT
Subject: IR95 ftp site in HP ?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard GmbH
Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops

I'm looking for an ftp site inside HP for IR95.

Thanks.

Mik
Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops
From: edp@math.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil)
Subject: Re: Derive for Sale
Reply-To: edp@math.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: us,usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 13:23:54 GMT

In article <C0EMBA.Bqr@iat.holonet.net>, brianw@iat.holonet.net (Brian
Walsh) writes:

>By opening a software package (disks or plug-in card) you automatically
>agree to the manufacturer's license, as the packaging makes clear.

How do you figure that?  Suppose I tell you "By opening your
refrigerator, you agree to pay me $1,000 per week, in exchange for which
I will deliver one fresh, grade A egg to you."  If you then opened your
refrigerator, would you be agreeing to my terms?

No, because you own the refrigerator, and I don't have a right to tell
you that you can't open it unless you agree to my terms.  Similarly, the
Derive ROM card was sold to me WITHOUT ANY TERMS.  By the time I
received it, I wholly owned it; Soft Warehouse had no more right to tell
me I could not open the envelope than I have to tell you you cannot open
your refrigerator.


                                -- edp (Eric Postpischil)
                                "Always mount a scratch monkey."
                                edp@rusure.enet.dec.com
From: dannyb@panix.com (Daniel Burstein)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops
Subject: atari portfolio as dial-up terminal
Date: 5 Jan 93 00:06:36 GMT
Organization: Panix, NYC

Any word on a snap-in modem, or even better, a fax/modem, which wouldf
hook directly to the portfolio, or do I have to do the serial extension to
modem nonsense?

also, can anybody recommend a decent telecom pgm which will work with it?  

thanks muchly
dannyb@panix.com

btw, way back, when I purchased the unit, I just about begged Atari to
make it two inches longer, which would have given it an almost full width
keyboard, and made the screen something like 70 chars wide (or, in other
words, just about the full width of a standard line).  This would also
have given them room to put a modem directly in the body.  
  but they wouldn't listen.
From: anthony@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Anthony J Stieber)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops
Subject: Re: external power on 95
Date: 5 Jan 1993 03:40:42 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <lkh8n8INN13r@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> falk@peregrine.Sun.COM (Ed Falk) writes:
>Anybody know the minimum voltage for the power input?  It seems to me
>that a clump of D cells would work better.

It's in the HP-95LX User's Guide, 4th Edition.  I suspect it was a late
addition and may not be in the other editions.  The page that the
information is on has no page number, it's between pages 31-24 and A-1.

Here is the information paraphrased:
Minimum: 7.8 volts
Nominal: 9 volts
Maximum: 12 volts, 350mA AC, 175 mA DC

If this information isn't in some manuals, it will go in the FAQ list.

Would someone like to put together a list of other information that
isn't in earlier editions of the manuals?  I only have only the 4th
edition manual, but I know that that the Caution on page B-24 about the
mandatory space in "SHELL=COMMAND /P" isn't in at least some earlier
manuals.
--
<-:(= Anthony Stieber	anthony@csd4.csd.uwm.edu   uwm!uwmcsd4!anthony
Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops
From: hdev@dutiag.tudelft.nl (Hans de Vreught)
Subject: Re: HP95 bugs -- open letter to HP
Organization: Delft University of Technology
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:28:29 GMT

asmith@acorn.co.uk (Andy Smith) writes:

>Thats quite some list of bugs!! I agree that most of them are a pain, but   
>95Buddy takes care of most of them. Certainly Buddy features should be
>built into SysMgr 2.

Hm.., sounds to me like the statement in one of the VMS manuals "installing
Unix fixes the bug". The system manager should do the job right, not a patch
program.

BTW, my most annoying thing is the mandatory c:\_dat for all applications
(yes, I know 95Buddy can take care of that as well).
--
Hans de Vreught                          | John von Neumann:
hdev@dutiba.twi.tudelft.nl               | Young man, in mathematics
Delft University of Technology (TWI-ThI) | you don't understand things,
The Netherlands                          | you just get used to them.
Xref: sparky comp.sys.palmtops:4187 comp.sys.handhelds:2640
From: anthony@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Anthony J Stieber)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops,comp.sys.handhelds
Subject: Psion, Atari Portfolio, HP-95LX FTP sites
Date: 5 Jan 1993 04:55:09 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: inet
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

I guess it's time to put something like this together.

Palmtop Anonymous FTP Archive List:

atari.archive.umich.edu			Atari Portfolio
csd4.csd.uwm.edu:/pub/Palmtop		Psion, Atari, HP, Fujitsu, Sharp, Zeos
doc.ic.ac.uk:/packages/psion/icdoc	main Psion 3 archive
eddie.mit.edu:/distrib/hp95lx		main HP-95LX archive
hpcvbbs.cv.hp.com			HP-95LX, via telnet and ftp
math.berkeley.edu			Sharp Wizard
--
<-:(= Anthony Stieber	anthony@csd4.csd.uwm.edu   uwm!uwmcsd4!anthony
From: falk@peregrine.Sun.COM (Ed Falk)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops
Subject: Re: external power on 95
Date: 4 Jan 1993 20:49:44 GMT
Organization: Sun
NNTP-Posting-Host: peregrine

In article <1993Jan3.1238.3828@channel1> "eliot gelwan" <eliot.gelwan@channel1.com> writes:

>I also have made a little portable
>battery pack by putting four 9V (snaptop) batteries in parallel
>and running them into a barrel connector that fits the power port
>on the 95...

Anybody know the minimum voltage for the power input?  It seems to me
that a clump of D cells would work better.

		-ed falk, sun microsystems
		 sun!falk, falk@sun.com
	"Towards the end, the smell of their air began to change"
From: anthony@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Anthony J Stieber)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops
Subject: Re: HP95 bugs -- open letter to HP
Date: 8 Jan 1993 07:39:34 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <58428@dime.cs.umass.edu> shri@freal.cs.umass.edu (H.Shrikumar) writes:

> And the alarm should work while in DOS too. (I have an ALARM-BUDDY
>that does that for me., but it would be neater if it was fixed.)

What's ALARM-BUDDY, where can we get it?
--
<-:(= Anthony Stieber	anthony@csd4.csd.uwm.edu   uwm!uwmcsd4!anthony
Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops
From: burn@geog.canterbury.ac.nz (Burn Hockey)
Subject: Is there documentation for diet? 
Keywords: hp95lx   diet 
Organization: Geography Department, Canterbury University, Christchurch, New Zealand
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 06:30:24 GMT

I'm interested in trying diet. There is an .exe file at eddie, but apparently without its documentation file (or is there no such thing?)

Does anyone know whether there is documentation for diet? 

+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  Burn Hockey                 E-MAIL:  burn@geog.canterbury.ac.nz  |
|  Dept. Geography             FAX:     +64 (03) 364 2907           |
|  University of Canterbury                                         |
|  Christchurch                                                     |
|  NEW ZEALAND                                                      |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops
From: jrh@jrh.uucp (James R. Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Temporary HP-95LX archive site (Re: ir95.zip posted to eddie.mit.edu)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1993 01:56:19 GMT
Organization: private system, Toronto, Ontario

In article <1993Jan1.145021.10043@irfu.se> bt@irfu.se (Bo Thide') writes:
>I just installed IR95 and was impressed by the functionality, ease of
>use, and the nice PCX screen layout.  Tests on the Panasonic TV we have
>at our institute show that IR95 works very well indeed.  So, I have now
>a working PANASO.KIR file.  The remote control for my SONY TV at home
>broke the day before Christmas Eve (which, incidentally, is the day we
>celebrate Xmas in Sweden), and now I am looking for a SONY.KIR.  Anybody
>want to share with me?  I don't know much about the various pulse coding
>schemes, but I would assume they are not too unique, and that there
>exists only a limited number of families of them.

    Its in the mail.  --jrh
-- 

James R. Hamilton                            inet: jrh@jrh.guild.org
telephone: +1 416 493 4162                   uunet: ...!uunet!jrh!jrh
Toronto, Canada                              work: jrh@torolab.vnet.ibm.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops
From: fbap2018@nusunix1.nus.sg (EE POH KHIAM LINCOLN)
Subject: Re: Sharp Palmtops???
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 00:10:37 GMT

 
    
:I've been using the PC-3100 for about half a year now. The main reason
I chose it over the HP was the 80x24 screen and the keyboard which is
JUST big enough to tough type (I have skinny fingers).

One complaint, though. I use it a lot as a portable terminal and 
discovered that the Serial port does not work in the low power mode!
(Laplink will automatically switch it to high power and back).
I suppose RS-232 needs high power to get the +/- range. 

Unfortunately, in high power mode AND using the serial port will
drain the batteries like crazy (2 hrs?). Using the AC adapter helps
but to my dismay, the batteries will ALSO run down albeit slower.

Perhaps my hardware is faulty. Anyone with similar experiences?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.palmtops