HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Subject: Re: Partial Legalization
Reply-To: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Organization: Ingres Division, ASK Computer Systems.
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:53:13 GMT

Bear Giles writes:
>> classical conditioning has been used to reduce repeat
>> offenses of pedophiles.

> Or trained them to better avoid detection.

Perfectly valid issue, but a measurement problem, not
an efficacy or safety of treatment question.  Measuring
behavior in the field is hard regardless of the
treatment whose effects we're measuring.  Fortunately
field data isn't all we have to rely on here.

-- Jon

Jon Krueger  jpk@ingres.com
From: jbtaylor@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Re: MENNINGER INSTITUTE
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:29:21 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <u251014.9@hnykun11.urc.kun.nl>, u251014@hnykun11.urc.kun.nl (Hans Schilderman) writes:
> 
> READING PRUYSERS PSYCHOLOGY OF RELIGION I BECAME INTERESTED IN THE MENNINGER 
> INSTITUTE, WHERE PRYUSER WORKED UNTILL HIS DEATH IN 1986. 
> I WONDER IF ANYONE COULD GIVE ME THE POST- OR E-MAIL ADRESS OF THE MENNINGER 
> INSTITUTE IN THE U.S. 
> THE ONLY THING I KNOW IT IS SOMEWHERE IN KANSAS
> 
> iF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH OTHER WAYS TO RETRIEVE THIS ADRESS PLEASE CONTACT ME
> 
> BEST WISHES  HANS SCHILDERMAN
> 
Newsgroups: sci.psychology,alt.support
From: hoppersm@infonode.ingr.com (Marcia Hoppers)
Subject: Anorexia
Keywords: anorexia, eating disorders
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:03:58 GMT


I am looking for suggestions/comments on giving support to a friend who 
has anorexia. As background to the situation, she is under professional care
and has a close relationship with her husband so I am not in a position of
giving primary support but I would like to understand how people recover from
anorexia, what basics I need to know about it to understand her condition
better, what to say, what *not* to say.

Anything you think a friend of an anorexia victim should know about will
be helpful.

Thanks.
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Subject: Re: Partial Legalization
Reply-To: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 16 Aug 92 03:28:59 GMT

Curtis Yarvin writes:
>> you [Eric Green] believe that behaviorist techniques make you more
> effective teacher...how do you measure effectiveness?

The field almost defines itself by measurement of effectiveness.
You'll find measurements in the lab, the field, and the literature.
Which ones don't you understand?

-- Jon

--
Jon Krueger  jpk@ingres.com  
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Subject: Re: Partial Legalization
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 23:57:45 GMT

In article <86535@netnews.upenn.edu> zorrilla@cattell.psych.upenn.edu (Eric Zorrilla) writes:
>>The point:  hard science majors are taught to question what
>>the measurements actually show.  Don't just grab a ruler and
>>measure something: verify that your ruler is accurate as well.
>
>And, of course, "soft" science majors are spared such niceties.  Critical 
>thinking is wholly absent in our fields.  I seem to remember one aspect of
>critical thinking being to recognize that one instance of something should
>not be taken for more than that...

I am not claiming "soft" science majors aren't taught such things.  I'm
not even saying that most working scientists in those fields don't apply
such considerations.

I _am_ saying that I have seen a lot of

  We did X and Y stopped (or started or ...)

and immediately jumped to the conclusion that X caused the a _real_
change in Y, rather than a _perceived_ change in Y.

Think about it: if you apply operant conditioning to someone with
negative reinforcement for 'inappropriate' behavior, you are giving
them an strong incentive to discontinue that behavior _and_ to find
a way to beat the system.

That quote I was commenting on did precisely that.  Someone did a study
where pedophiles received negative reinforcement _if they were caught_
and the number of times they were caught was reduced.  If, for the
sake of argument, they were using a galvanic skin response to test for
arousal to pictures of children, the response could have gone down because
the pedophiles were actually less interested in the children _or_ they
could have used the entire experimental setup as a giant bio-feedback
loop.

The original paper may have covered that possibility, but the citation
used to prove the validity of psychological research did not.

Perhaps nobody mentions this sort of possibility because it's understood...
then why do "hard" science types _always_ provide equivalent information
(or have it available on demand) even though inanimate systems are _much_
easier to study?


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
From: zorrilla@cattell.psych.upenn.edu (Eric Zorrilla)
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Re: Partial Legalization
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:29:23 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Bear Giles writes :

>Most undergraduate Introduction to Physics courses include a
>lecture where two unsuspecting students measure the length of 
>a table with a ruler... and come up with dramatically different
>results.  Most of the students (not me!)

Glory be to God!

> miss the fact that the
>professor was holding _two_ different rulers and casually handed
>a different ruler to each student.

>The point:  hard science majors are taught to question what
>the measurements actually show.  Don't just grab a ruler and
>measure something: verify that your ruler is accurate as well.

And, of course, "soft" science majors are spared such niceties.  Critical 
thinking is wholly absent in our fields.  I seem to remember one aspect of
critical thinking being to recognize that one instance of something should
not be taken for more than that...



[--------------------------------------+--------------------------------------]
| Eric Zorrilla - Dept. of Psychology  | zorrilla@cattell.psych.upenn.edu     |
| University of Pennsylvania           | 3815 Walnut, Philadelphia, PA 19104  |
[--------------------------------------+--------------------------------------]
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: spesau@acs.ucalgary.ca (Shane P Esau)
Subject: Re: Psychology and statistics
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 06:08:26 GMT
Distribution: sci
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1992Aug19.045417.3981@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> buchino@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bert N Uchino) writes:
>I happen to be a proponent for the use of statistics in psychology.
>Statistics allows researchers to evaluate the probability that a particular
>effect is due to chance.  Although a probability level of p<.05 is simply a
>conventional cut-off point, it forces researchers to be relatively more
>objective about the hypothesis under study.  In parting, I would also like to
>comment about post hoc "fishing" expeditions that presumably occur
>frequently in Social Psychology.  Post hoc explanations are not necessarily a
>bad thing.  No researcher is clever enough to think of all possible effects
>that might occur in particular study.  Unexpected effects can be interesting 
>and lead researchers into new and exciting questions.  The real issue here, 
>however, is whether or not the effect is replicable.  If one can replicate the>effect, then progress may have been made.  Replication of an unexpected effect
>is a scientific obligation.

I too agree that post hoc "fishing" is acceptable, as long as the
researcher/statistician take into account the probability of
finding a significant finding based on chance alone, and adjust
their alpha levels accordingly - this may sound picky, but many
tyheories may be based on findings which were one of those 1 in
20 chance results.

Shane Esau
spesau@acs.ucalgary.ca
 

Newsgroups: sci.psychology,alt.support
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell)
Subject: Re: Anorexia
Keywords: anorexia, eating disorders
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:19:28 GMT


Being in the process of recovering from compulsive eating I can tell you
there are many good books on all types of eating disorders, esp anorexia.
  Call your local university counseling center to find the best one, pref
one with biographical writings to get a hold on your friends emotions.
  Also check out your video rental place.  I dont know how available it is
but there was an excellent film on all facets of eating disorders called
"The Famine Within" 

Good Luck
Steve

:s

Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: buchino@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bert N Uchino)
Subject: Re: Psychology and statistics
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: sci
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 04:54:17 GMT

I happen to be a proponent for the use of statistics in psychology.
Statistics allows researchers to evaluate the probability that a particular
effect is due to chance.  Although a probability level of p<.05 is simply a
conventional cut-off point, it forces researchers to be relatively more
objective about the hypothesis under study.  In parting, I would also like to
comment about post hoc "fishing" expeditions that presumably occur
frequently in Social Psychology.  Post hoc explanations are not necessarily a
bad thing.  No researcher is clever enough to think of all possible effects
that might occur in particular study.  Unexpected effects can be interesting 
and lead researchers into new and exciting questions.  The real issue here, 
however, is whether or not the effect is replicable.  If one can replicate the 
effect, then progress may have been made.  Replication of an unexpected effect
is a scientific obligation.
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: ceci@lysator.liu.se (Ceci Henningsson)
Subject: Anorexia
Keywords: anorexia, eating disorders
Organization: Lysator Academic Computer Society, Linkoping University, Sweden
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:45:45 GMT

Newsgroups: sci.psychology,alt.support
Subject: Re: Anorexia
Keywords: anorexia, eating disorders
Organization: Lysator Academic Computer Club, Linkoping University, Sweden

hoppersm@infonode.ingr.com (Marcia Hoppers) writes:
>I am looking for suggestions/comments on giving support to a friend who 
>has anorexia. As background to the situation, she is under professional care
>and has a close relationship with her husband so I am not in a position of
>giving primary support but I would like to understand how people recover from
>anorexia, what basics I need to know about it to understand her condition
>better, what to say, what *not* to say.

My personal experience, is that the more you talk about it or show
that you know about the problem, the worse it gets. I used to develop
a strange kind of pride of not eating. This was nurtured when other
people talked about anorexia or when I noticed that my friends were
monitoring how much I ate. I could even get worse from reading an
article in a magazine where anorexia was mentioned. This probably
isn't what you want to hear, but this is the way my anorexia worked
and works. "Works" because it is something that you can never quite
get rid of. It can be dormant for years, and then in a period of
stress (positive or negative) or trouble, it breaks out again.

Act normally, don't try to make her eat when you see her, don't let
her talk about how little she has eaten. Don't be over-caring. See her
just as much as you have always done, not more. Otherwise she will get
the message that as long as she is ill, people will care more for her
than when she is healthy.

--Ceci


--
=====ceci@lysator.liu.se===========================================
"Vorbedingung des kuenstlerischen Schaffens ist nicht, ein Ereignis
oder ein Motiv so "rein" anzuschauen, dass es auf das betrachtende
Subjekt gar keine Wirkung hat." Hermann Leber: Aquarellieren lernen
From: harnad@clarity.Princeton.EDU (Stevan Harnad)
Newsgroups: sci.psychology.digest
Subject: PSYCOLOQUY: Perry London 1931-1992
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:17:33 GMT
Organization: Listserv to Netnews Gateway at pucc.Princeton.EDU

It is my sad duty to announce the death of my Co-Editor, Perry London.
The following obituary was written by Associate Editor Cary Cherniss.

						   -- Stevan Harnad
______________________________________________________________________

              ---  Perry London: 1931-1992  ---

Perry London, Co-Editor of PSYCOLOQUY, died of cancer on June 19, 1992,
at the Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital in New Brunswick, NJ.
He was 61 years old.

Born in Omaha, Nebraska, Perry majored in classics at Yeshiva
University. He received his Ph.D. in clinical psychology at Columbia
University in 1956.

After serving in the army, Perry became an assistant professor of
psychology at the University of Illinois, Urbana, in 1959. In 1962-63,
he spent a year at Stanford University and was then appointed associate
professor of psychology at the University of Southern California. In
1967 he was promoted to full professor and remained at USC as Professor
of Psychiatry, Psychology, and the Behavioral Sciences until 1984.
During this period Perry also spent long periods of time in residence
in Israel and taught at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv
University. In 1984 he moved to Harvard University where he taught and
sometimes directed the Counseling and Consulting Psychology program in
the Graduate School of Education.

Perry became Dean of the Graduate School of Applied and Professional
Psychology at Rutgers University in 1989; he was serving in that
position at the time of his death.

Perry's research interests included the nature and development of
personal and social identity, the psychological determinants of
voluntary behavior, and the technology of helping interventions,
especially in the problem behavior of children and youth. Perry was
also noted for his studies of altruism in Christians who risked their
lives to save Jews from the Nazis.

Author of numerous publications, Perry's best known books were "The
Modes and Morals of Psychotherapy" (1964, 1986), "Behavioral Control"
(1969, 1977), and "Beginning Psychology" (1975, 1978). He was the chief
consultant to the Psychosocial Treatments Research Branch of NIMH;
he also consulted to the Israeli Air Force and the Management Education
Center of Bell Laboratories.

Perry earned many honors during his career. He was a career science
development fellow of the National Institute of Mental Health as well
as a Fellow of the New York Academy of Science and the American
Association for the Advancement of Science.

Perry is survived by his wife, Beverly, seven children, and eight
grandchildren.


                                                        Cary Cherniss
               Graduate School of Applied and Professional Psychology
                                                   Rutgers University

_____________________________________________________________________
From: lady@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Lee Lady)
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Re: Psychology and statistics
Summary: Experimental verification is only the final step in doing science.
Date: 20 Aug 92 23:34:07 GMT
Followup-To: sci.psychology
Distribution: sci
Organization: University of Hawaii (Mathematics Dept)

In article <1992Aug19.045417.3981@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> buchino@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bert N Uchino) writes:
>I happen to be a proponent for the use of statistics in psychology.
>Statistics allows researchers to evaluate the probability that a particular
>effect is due to chance.  Although a probability level of p<.05 is simply a
>conventional cut-off point, it forces researchers to be relatively more
>objective about the hypothesis under study.  

This is the correct use of statistics (in my opinion).  Statistics
enables one to distinguish between marginal but significant effects and
random variation.  One doesn't need a statistical study when an effect
is so pronounced that it there is virtually no likelihood of it
occuring at random.

A statistical study is only as good as the question you ask in the first
place, though.  Simply doing statistical studies of random ad hoc
hypotheses in the hopes that one of them will prove significant is not
good science.  This is what I meant by "fishing expeditions."

Statistical studies or other experimental verification are the very final
step in doing science, in my opinion.  The most important part comes
beforehand and involves -- requires! -- intelligence, imagination, astute
observation, and insight.  Many of the participants in sci.psychology seem
to devalue these qualities.  

I believe that if Darwin had used modern statistical tools when he
gathered his initial data during the vogage of the Beagle he never would
have come up with the theory of evolution.  (Of course some people in
sci.psychology would say that Darwin's work was not science since he
never did any controlled studies.)  The proper time for him to have used
statistics would have been after his theory was formulated.  

>that might occur in particular study.  Unexpected effects can be interesting 
>and lead researchers into new and exciting questions.  The real issue here, 
>however, is whether or not the effect is replicable.  If one can replicate the 
>effect, then progress may have been made.  Replication of an unexpected effect
>is a scientific obligation.

You and I are in complete agreement.  Simply ignoring effects without
doing further investigation on the grounds that the phenomena are
idiosyncratic or anecdotal is scientific irresponsibility.  

Good luck in trying to teach this to these psychologists!  

--

Imagination is more important than knowledge.  -- Einstein 

lady@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu         lady@uhunix.bitnet
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: u251014@hnykun11.urc.kun.nl (Hans Schilderman)
Subject: MENNINGER INSTITUTE
Keywords: ADRESS
Organization: Department of Theology. Catholic University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 10:36:14 GMT


READING PRUYSERS PSYCHOLOGY OF RELIGION I BECAME INTERESTED IN THE MENNINGER 
INSTITUTE, WHERE PRYUSER WORKED UNTILL HIS DEATH IN 1986. 
I WONDER IF ANYONE COULD GIVE ME THE POST- OR E-MAIL ADRESS OF THE MENNINGER 
INSTITUTE IN THE U.S. 
THE ONLY THING I KNOW IT IS SOMEWHERE IN KANSAS

iF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH OTHER WAYS TO RETRIEVE THIS ADRESS PLEASE CONTACT ME

BEST WISHES  HANS SCHILDERMAN

Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Subject: Re: Partial Legalization
Reply-To: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Organization: Ingres Division, ASK Computer Systems.
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:58:12 GMT

Bear Giles writes:
> if you apply operant conditioning to someone with
> negative reinforcement for 'inappropriate' behavior

Then you are applying punishment, not negative reinforcement.

-- Jon

Jon Krueger  jpk@ingres.com  
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: buchino@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bert N Uchino)
Subject: Re: Psychology and statistics
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: sci
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 07:12:17 GMT

If the effect is RELIABLE (which was my main point), then presumably we will
have learned something new about the phenomenon of interest.  Such is the 
cumulative nature of science.
     Bert.
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Re: State investigates therapy tool
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:07:37 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

This treatment has been fairly widely used by "Christian"
therapists in attempts to reverse homosexuality.  Patients
are shown male nude photos and given aversion stimuli to them.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: fedrick@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Kelvin W. Fedrick)
Subject: Re: Cognitive Science 
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 19:57:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.002420.16781@pony.Ingres.COM> jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger) writes:
>Thomas Grant Edwards writes:
>>>> and maze run times are used as a measure of performance
>> we could be testing for whether localized damage due to
>> cutting up parts of the brain damages the skills in maze
>> running (memory being key here).
>
>What performance is being measured here?  Something about memory?
>Something about running?

 Depends on what you cut out, when you cut it out, and how the experiment
 is run in general. Memory, or more precisely, consolidation of memories,
 (i.e. things like transfer of things from short-term or medium-term
 memory to long-term memory) is one thing that can be tested here by
 damaging structures in the brain known to influence the transfer of
 information from short-term to long-term memory. The phenomena in
 being looked at has to do with retrograde and (posterior?) amnesia. 

-kelvin

Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: nvecchi@sangiorgio.cscs.ch (Nicole Vecchi)
Subject: Office Environment and Psychology
Followup-To: nvecchi@cscs.ch
Organization: Centro Svizzero di Calcolo Scientifico / CH-6928 Manno / Switzerland
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 12:40:54 GMT

I'm not sure if this is right place to post but perhaps
someone here can point me to the right place.

I'm looking for articles/books/journals which discuss the impact
of office layout on worker productivity: studies on open-office
environments vs limited personnel offices, white noise and sound 
reduction, "productive" colors, and ergonomics. I know this is a wide range. 
Sorry.

A response of "leave it to the architect" is unsatisfactory to me although
it seems to be the response of my management.  I'd like to do some reading
on the topic and try to make a positive impact on a future reconfiguration
of our site.

Thanks,
Nicole Vecchi



Newsgroups: sci.psychology