From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegan dilemma concerning pancreatic enzymes.
Date: 26 Aug 92 05:43:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug26.054307.21878
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <altar.714802566@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
>>I did find one book written by a medical doctor. He said colon
>>cleansing is quackery, and several states have even outlawed it.
>>He said the procedure has even been credited with eight fatalities.
>I didn't know that the procedure actually resulted in deaths.
>Was this due to the procedure directly or due, say, to bowel
>cancer patients not seeking proper medical help but instead
>wasting time with colon cleansing?

This is referring to "colonic irrigation", one (extreme) manifestation
of a colonic fixation.  This is essentially a deep enema, a kind of
lavage.  In Massachusetts, such procedures are illegal unless performed
by a physician (which means essentially that they don't happen
anymore.)  Some of the dangers of colonic irrigation are electrolyte
imbalances (due to osmotic differences between the lavage solution and
body fluids) and a lack of sterile technique.  Cases of hepatitis have
been transmitted due to reuse of irrigation equipment which was not
sterilized between patients (in some cases, the materials had been
cleaned, but not sterilized.)

This procedure is not what was described here in the colon cleansing
regimen.

>But neither Anne Nield, nor myself, nor Michael Traub deserve to be
>derisively insulted for our efforts.

Disagreement is insult, I see.

>In any case, Anne Nield has here been shabbily treated for her
>honest posting, and I would hope that you might consider
>apologizing to her.  I don't expect this from Steve Dyer

Insult, insult, insult! :-\

>Did you know that Anne Nield on another
>occasion had to once suffer from the repeated and continuous e-
>mail assult of the message, "YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE" for 2 hours one
>day?  Probably not.

I didn't do it, I swear.  Really.

>Well, let us keep in mind that our three posters who have
>reported a direct experience with something that has been
>originally referred to as "A DIGESTIVE SYSTEM CLEANSING PROGRAM"
>may or may not be the same thing as what these doctors refer to
>as "COLON CLEANSING".

They're all part of a spectrum of therapies which are similarly
based on a misunderstanding of the colon and its role in health
and disease.  However, it's clear that some are more dangerous
than others.

>Maybe we will NOW never find out since
>more heat and little light has been the main thrust of our
>omnivorous critics.

I see; people who disagree with you are omnivorous.  Will you please
can this sanctimoniousness (as well as your selective blind eye to your
own abrasiveness?)  It's nauseating.  If you're going to be a prick,
you might as well admit it to yourself.  It's the first step towards
healing.

>A vegetarian diet and exercise being 2 simple, but the
>most effective lifestyle changes that I know of, as empirically
>documented by respectable scientific papers.  

Yep.

>Originally it did!  At least it did until our omnivorous
>kibitzers jumped in deflecting Daniel Poirier's original concern
>about using what might be animal derived products.

How dare you call me omnivorous!  You are a cruel, nasty man.

>If you would care to review the thread, you will see that Michael
>Traub NEVER explicitly endorsed this kind of program.

Who said he did?

>He simply observed that they seem to work for some people (as Anne Nield
>and Daniel Poirier have testified for themselves), but that
>"colon-cleansing is an absolute waste of time for a vegan and
>probably a waste of time for most vegetarians".  Also, keep in
>mind that Michael Traub only defended people's right to try out
>such programs, if they so want.  Michael Traub attempted to
>simply provide a helpful suggestion to the original poster,
>Daniel Poirier, that he simply stay with acidophilus and NOT
>attempt to use such "weird additions" like pancreatin.

Well, he did a little more than that.  He also was acting rather
Traub-like to people like me.  Which is OK with me.  But he's not
a candidate for sainthood.

>This sounds to me like stuff relevant to being a vegetarian.  I
>can't always say the same about SOME of our omnivorous kibitzers
>who are too intent on making derisively rude remarks than to
>seriously contribute good information relevant to vegetarianism
>and useful to the vegetarians here who are attempting to 
>advance their understanding and practice of this dietary choice.  

Pttttht.  Ted, I see you're working double time with the insults
now that M. Traub is off-net and in recovery.

>I will, however, give Steve Dyer credit for at least confirming 
>Daniel Poirier's suspicion that the pancratic enzyme of "porcine 
>orgin" was indeed derived from pork pancreases.  I am only sorry 
>he would subsequently detract from such helpful comments by taking 
>recourse to some sacrcasms and insults directed at Anne Nield and 
>Michael Traub.

You need a reality check, boy.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer