HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Final Score: 102-70 (Re: USA/Croatia time ? )
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:37:44 GMT
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <1992Jul28.032619.4600@midway.uchicago.edu> hh15@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>Team USA beat Croatia 102:70, the narrowest margin so far for the
>dream team.  And the game may be closer than the final score showed,
>IMHO. Best players on the USA side: MJ and Barkley. MJ had 21 points
>playing for most of the time at PG position, Barkley added 20 points
>with many great plays. CL had 9 points.  Magic left the game early in
>the first half because of some injury on his knee.  Pippen and MJ held
>Toni Kukoc at 4 points with 2 for 11 field goal/attempts -- clearly
>sending him a message -- but Kukoc had some sensational passes though.
>Seems he always thought about pass first.  Petrovic had 17 points (I
>believe), 15 in the first half.  Radja (sp?)  played very

Actually, Petrovic had 19, 17 in the first half.

>impressively.  Malone was almost invisible today.  The Glide had a

Well, he had 12 points in 18 minutes and one thunderous, stop the presses
slam, as well as one "get outta here" blocked shot.

>couple of beautiful dunks plus a 18 footer.  Mullin had an off day, so
>did Ewing.  Pippen was terrible on offensive side, but did a

Pippen was 5-9 for 13 points, 1-2 from 3pt land..  He also had 9 assists.
Far from "terrible" on the offensive side.

>reseanable job on the defensive end.  Robinson played pretty good D.
>In the after game press conference, MJ criticized some team USA
>players for not playing up to what they have learned to play without
>mentioning the names.

Yeah, Robinson and Ewing were horrible, as was Mullin.  Bird was pretty 
invisible aside from a few good passes, 1 three pointer, and some decent 
defense.
-- 
David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"
From: markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Olympic hoops referees
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:26:26 GMT
Organization: Bell Northern Research Inc.

In article <l7g5qtINNhkp@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> ma@bluedevil.Eng.Sun.COM (Shing C. Ma) writes:
>In article <1992Jul29.142243.14722@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> gary@ccs.northeastern.edu (Gary Duhaney) writes:
>>
>>I'm sure you would be stupid enough to pay $40 a game to see
>>Jordan/Bird/Magic and all the other superstars sitting on the bench
>>after the ref treated them like Rick Fox, or Stanley Robberts.
>>I'm sure you would shell out $1600+ a year to see the tenth and
>>12th men playing 20+ minutes a game, because the ref called some
>>petty calls on the stars.
>
>A foul is a foul is a foul, no matter if a player is a superstar or
>a rookie.  Are you saying that it is fair for a referee not to call
>a foul on a superstar just because he should not foul out, so that
>you can get your money worth?  This is BS.  Basketball is a sport
>first and entertainment second.  There are rules in sports, and rules
>should not be bent because of your $40 a game.

Survey says....BZZZZTTTTTT.

If you think that the NBA is a sport before it is a business (or
entertainment -- but these are interchangable since mo' entertainment 
draws mo' business therefore bringing in mo' money), you should get out 
more often...it just doesn't work that way.

-- 
|_ o_O              Andrew W. Markham (markham@bnr.ca)
|W   |\               Bell Northern Research, Inc.              _        O
|   / \                       Heels in 93!                     / |_      |\
|        before...            Bulls in 93!           after... |   W  o  /|
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Subject: Re: DT vs. Kukoc
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 14:45:49 GMT
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <1992Jul30.171710.15657@brtph560.bnr.ca> markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:
>In article <1992Jul30.135104.57594@uvmark.uucp> davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks) writes:
>>
>I don't have *any* idea how much Kukoc is worth, nor do I envy Krause for
>having to pick the $$$ amount to sign Kukoc.  Kukoc hasn't really looked
>that stellar in the Olympics, but he seems to have pretty good ball handling
>and excellent passing skills (and NOT just for a 6'10" player).  No one is
>saying he will be the next MJ (pick one) or will dominate in the NBA, just
>that he's the best outside the NBA, which means that he is great on some 
>level but possibly not on the NBA level.  

Well, I say nothing more than an European Danny Ferry.  Good size, good ball
handling/passing/vision, but can he score in the NBA???  Can he defend against
NBA talent??  

>
>As for the $3mil offer, I don't think that Krause is saying he is *worth* 
>3 million, just that it will take $3mil to get him off the Italian team and 
>into the NBA.  If the Bulls offered you $500,000 and Italy offered $3mil, 
>where would you go?

No, Krause is saying he is *worth* 3 million, or however much he actually
offered.  Vinnie Del Negro is supposedly one of the best players in the 
Italian league.  He was a marginal NBA player.  He is making 1+million.
Should an NBA team try to beat that offer to get Vinnie?? Only if they think
he is worth it.  It just didn't seem that Kukoc was worth all that much.
He has potential, but that word seldom comes to fruition

>
>>As for Pippen looking horrible???  What game were you watching???  He dominated
>>Kukoc, while scoring very well himself, and getting about 10 assists.  
>>Pippen looked worth his pay, Kukoc didn't. 
>
>Agreed.  I think Pippen has earned every penny and am glad that the Bulls
>finally treated him appropriately.  It was really pissing me off when Krause
>was ignoring Pippen in order to court Kukoc.
>
>-- 
>|_ o_O              Andrew W. Markham (markham@bnr.ca)
>|W   |\               Bell Northern Research, Inc.              _        O
>|   / \                       Heels in 93!                     / |_      |\
>|        before...            Bulls in 93!           after... |   W  o  /|


-- 
David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: jjehlers@flapjack.dsd.es.com (Jennifer Ehlers)
Subject: Re: Team Rosters for Rocky Mountain Review
Organization: Evans & Sutherland
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 21:18:02 GMT

In article <91504@bu.edu>, sheyn@csa.bu.edu (Igor) writes:
|> 
|> In the listings of rosters of Denver and Clippers I noticed Marcus Webb
|> and Cedric Ball respectively. They both participated in Celtics rookie/free agent
|> camp and both made a team which took part in NY tournament ( Web broke his leg 
|> in earlier game though ). How come they are on other teams' rosters?

Its common for players to play in more than one camp.  That way they get
maximum exposure.  The Jazz have 2 players that didn't show up until
yesterday because they were in other camps.  I don't think there are
any rules as to how many camps a player can play in, its up to the player,
his agent, and the teams he's playing with.  (If Webb broke his leg, than
he probably isn't at the Rocky Mtn Revue.  I'm not sure when the rosters
were submitted, so they may be a little out of date).  I think Paddio who
is on the Rockets roster also played in the Knicks camp, and I think someone
posted earlier today that he also is going to attend the Spurs camp.  Maybe
somebody will pick him up, and at least he has lots of exposure so might
get on with a good team in Europe.

-- 
  Jennifer Ehlers                   
  jjehlers@dsd.es.com  		    
  Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp. 
  Salt Lake City, Utah               
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: aco@fraser.sfu.ca (Alvin Milton Co)
Subject: Re: Another Dream Team Possibility
Keywords: Danny Manning
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 01:27:34 GMT

orourke@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Michael O'Rourke) writes:

>In <aco.711927454@sfu.ca> aco@fraser.sfu.ca (Alvin Milton Co) writes:

>>whjelmar@calvin.usc.edu (White Guy with an earring) writes:

>>>Since everyone else is else is giving their picks for a second Dream Team,
>>>I figured I'd send out mine.  So here goes....

>>>C  - 	Brad Daugherty
>>My choice as well for starting center   
>>
>>>PF -	Charles Smith
>> 
>>I would put in Pervis Ellison instead, pretty solid at the center position. 
>>Wait till, he plays at his normal "power forward" position.
>>
>>>SF -	Dominique Wilkins
>>
>>The best small forward left of the NBA team, assuming without the injury!

>...

>>>Bench - Rony Seikaly (C), Shaq O'Neill (C/PF), Dennis Rodman (SF), 
>>>	Reggie Lewis (SF/SG), Kevin Johnson (PG), Mitch Richmond (SG),
>>>	Hersey Hawkins (SG)
>>
>>Bench - Robert Parish....He may be old, but you need a veteran in the team for
>>                 experience.  Could still hold him own!   CENTER 
>>        Shaq O'Neil......Can't leave him.  Just in case they bang up too much
>> 		on Robert Parish. I'll bring in Shaq to squash them!
>>		Besides,  "the Chief" will teach him a thing or too!  CENTER
>>        Larry Johnson....Junior version of Charles Barkley!  Just
>>		imagine him and Shaq in the floor together!
>>		SMALL/POWER FORWARD 
>>	Lionnel Simmons..Sensation scorer at La Salle!  All around player at
>>                 Sacramento!  Shows that he could defend and score! 
>>	         SMALL FORWARD/SHOOTING GUARD
>>	Jimmy Jackson....Could play three position.  Oustanding career at
>>		 Ohio State!  Bob Knight says it all, when he told Jimmy that 
>>		 it was a pleasure to see him play over the years at the 
>>		 BIG 10 conference!   POINT/SHOOTING GUARD/SMALL FORWARD 

>...

>>>					-Walter-



>I have read through many of these "Dream Team II" posts and have
>failed to see the name of a player who should be mentioned: Danny
>Manning.  My collegiate loyalties aside, Manning has certainly
>demonstrated that he is superior to a number of other players who have
>been mentioned (e.g., Charles Smith, Larry Johnson, Lionel Simmons,
>etc.)  His career as a Clipper has not been stellar, but he did blow
>out a knee during his rookie year.  He returned to form only this past
>season; indeed, he was the key player in the Clippers' drive for the
>playoffs.  His game is as versatile as they come, and if he can
>improve his rebounding he could become one of the league's best
>players.  If Brown stays as coach, Manning will soon be an all-star
>and, barring injury, he should receive serious consideration for the
>Olympic team in four years.

>Thoughts?
I knew I forgot someone!  Who should we kick out? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
>Rock Chalk
>orourke@csli.stanford.edu
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: ABA Teams that moved from one city to another
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:42:27 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Jul29.150634.4936@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>  
wakankar@foxtrot.egr.msu.edu (Parag Wakankar) writes:
> Thanksto everybody who replied to my request for NBA/ABA teams that  
moved from one city to another. 
> 
> Here is a compiled list of ABA teams that moved from one city to  
another. I will post a list of NBAteams later.
> 
> 
> Anaheim Amigos  --> LA  Stars -->Utah Stars
> Houston  Mavericks -->Carolina Cougars -->Dallas Mavericks
> Denver Rockets --> Houston Rockets
> Minnesota  Muskies --> Miami  Floridians
> New Jersey americans -->New York Nets
> Oakland Oaks -->Washington capitols --> Virginia squires
> 
> Pittsburgh Pipers --> Minnesota Pipers --> Pittsburgh Condors
> New Orleans Bucs -->Memphis Sounds
> Dallas Chapparals --> San Anonio Spurs
> San Diego Conquistadores --> San Diego sails (This team didn't move but  
changed name)
> Carolina  Cougars -->Spirit of St. Louis
> 

I didn't remember the last four. They must have all happened after
the Condors folded and I lost track of ABA basketball. (Actually,
all I even remembered was that the Condors went away, after lots
of talk about their wanting to move.  Did they fold before the league
itself did?  What was the story here?)


--
Jim Mann       jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  Stratus Computer
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: gary@ccs.northeastern.edu (Gary Duhaney)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Bird plays foolish in game 1 of olympics
Date: 28 Jul 92 19:09:23 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU

In article <1992Jul28.023548.29057@unx.ucc.okstate.edu> u1781ag@unx.ucc.okstate.edu (Andy Lowery) writes:
>In article <1992Jul27.230631.23825@news.Hawaii.Edu> bill@gaza.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (William J. King) writes:
>>I saw Larry Bird dive for a loose ball  in the Angola game when
>>the team was up by dozens. 
>>Well LArry, it is your back.
>>
>Oh gee...Larry Bird is just playing in the Olympics so he can sign a
>whole bunch o' autographs.  Forget the concept of playing your guts out
>for your country.  WHAT was he thinking?!
>

I bet you wouldn't take that attitude if you were up in traction for
as long as he was a year ago, cause he kept trying to do the same
old things from his youth.  They are up by 50 and he should end his career
for some moronic concept of playing your guts out for your country.
Stockton should get off his butt and play on that fracture, right???

>Andy Lowery
>u1781ag@unx.ucc.okstate.edu

P.S.
	Bird is there because, out of the three superstars (Magic, Jordan).
Bird probably has a larger following.  He's not there to play hard, just
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: lej@pdn.paradyne.com (Leo James)
Subject: Re: The Invincible Knicks
Organization: AT&T Paradyne, Largo, Florida
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:50:59 GMT

In article <Bs45nC.3C3@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jbs21045@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Joe Sterbenc) writes:
>I think the Knicks have become rather overrated.

Perhaps.
>
>Blackmon (sp?) is a good scorer, but he's also pretty old and can't do much
>else. _If_ they'd snatched Harvey Grant, I would be quivering with everyone
>else, but they didn't.

Rolondo gives us, agreed, short term, the guy who can stick the J that we
did not have last year.  Long term?   You guys are going to grow to truly
dislike Hubert Davis our first round draft choice from North Carolina.
>
>The Knicks are still short a good power forward and to some degree a point
>guard. Further, all this Knick-pumping desperately depends on X-man NOT
>playing the regular season anything like this past one - and I don't think
>he can sustain the his playoff level.

Ok.  Maybe you don't like Oakley, Mason,  Jackson,  or Anthony but we did
alright with these guys last season.  And,  BTW,  don't close the door on
Grant yet.  With the lack of room the Bullets have under their cap, don't
be surprised to see him have a change of colors next season anyway.
>
>The biggest threat to the Bulls is, was, will be the Cavs. The Knicks won't
>make the conference finals, and if the rest of their division wasn't falling
>apart, I wouldn't pick them to win the division.

Fine.  We have no chance.  But, if you don't mind, we'll show up and play
our schedule anyway.  (Don't forget your brass knucks!)               ;-)
--
+---------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+
|Leopold E. James     | "A heart, a soul, AND | AT&T Paradyne         |
|ph: (813) 530-8425   |  a mind are terrible  | P.O. Box 2826, LG-132,|
|lej@pdn.paradyne.com |  things to waste."    | Largo, FL 34649 (USA) |
From: gary@ccs.northeastern.edu (Gary Duhaney)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: DALLAS makes offer to Stanley Roberts!!!! + Bullets/Spurs
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:27:10 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU

In article <1992Jul24.112424.19476@crd.ge.com> hanley@fyi.crd.ge.com (Christopher W Hanley) writes:
>
>I was suprised that this didn't make the net when I came in to work this
>morning! Our feed is probably down again! Anyway the Mavs have made a 5 year
>contract offer to Stanley Roberts of the Magic.  Since he is a restricted 
>free agent, the Magic have 15 days to match the offer.  Details not 
>disclosed.  ?: Can the Magic sign Roberts and Shaq and stay under the cap
>or will they have to cut several players.  I am sure the Magic will try
>to sign Roberts and then trade him at least.  He obviously has some good
>market value.  To get nothing for him would be a crime!!!
>
>Chris Hanley

If I were San Antonio, I would be all over Stanley's door step.  Imagine
David Robinson being freed up to play power forward.  He'd be able to
utilize alot more of his skills.

With the exception of a few centers in the league, he's usually wasting
his energy banging with all the grunts at center.  Guys with more muscle
than talent.  I think at power forward, he'd be able to do more.  He
certainly would have more stamina (much closer to full strenght) at the
end of the game.  Once you get past Akeem, Ewing, Parish, and Daugherty,
the majority of the rest are more muscle than talent.   The first two
use a heck of a lot of muscle also.  Frankly Robinson looks like a twig,
beside Ewing and Akeem.

Just my $0.02 worth on how San Antonio could really improve.

I didn't see much of Washington play, but who is Larry Stewart.  Is he
From: sheyn@csa.bu.edu (Igor)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Keywords: Spurs Update
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:17:45 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: sheyn@csa


I probably missed the news on T. Cummings. Why is he out for the season?
Is it his heart problems or last year injury of ... (forget what it was ).
Igor
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Subject: Re: Stojko Vrankovic
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 15:19:10 GMT
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <1992Jul28.212848.14273@husc3.harvard.edu> vreddy@husc3.harvard.edu writes:
>This is a rather simple post, but I have been up here in Boston for about a
>year now, and not even in practice have I seen Stojko Vrankovic play as well
>as he did in the USA vs. Croatia match, including his rather awesome stuff
>(block) of Pippen (I think it was Scottie... I could be wrong). I realize
>he doesn't get the playing time here in the NBA, but even from what I have
>seen in practices/scrimmages, he just plain played better in the Olympics.
>Any ideas? Perhaps the pride and patriotism of playing for his newly
>liberated country? I dunno... help me out, Celtics fans...

Well, Stojko has shown signs of very talented play throughout his Celtic
career.  However, he seldom put much effort in practice, and didn't get the
time because of it.  I think the big thing was just the time he got to play.
He is the type of player that plays much better in international basketball
as well.  He doesn't move his feet all that well and doesn't have much of
an offensive game, though his work with Dave Cowen is helping.  In 
international bball, he can stick by the basket and block shots, and is 
very good at knocking the ball out after it has hit the rim.

>
>-- Venk Reddy --
>
>PS: Is he goign to be around next year, or have they dumped him, or did he
>leave...? Last I heard, he was pissed off at the Celts, and so he was planning
>to leave, although they want to keep him. I don't know if any of that is true.
>Any information? Thanks...

Well, the Celts made a qualifying offer to him to retain his rights, but it
is very doubtful he will stay.  He is unhappy with his playing time (or lack
therein) and Chris Ford is very unhappy with his desire (or lack therein). 
He will probably be in Europe next year.



-- 
David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"
From: wakankar@egr.msu.edu (PUT YOUR NAME HERE)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Reggie Lewis (was Re: 2nd Dream Team)
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:39:43 GMT
Reply-To: wakankar@egr.msu.edu (PUT YOUR NAME HERE)
Organization: Michigan State University
Originator: wakankar@frith.egr.msu.edu

In article <1992Jul23.031800.12656@leela.cs.orst.edu> chrisda@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (David Christensen) writes:
>Dave Meeks writes:
>
>you had eggs for breakfast...  Or, you can recognize that stats don't tell you
>anything nearly as precise as they pretend.
>
I remember a british sportswriter (Neville Cardus) writing about game statistics
He said
	"Numbers are like bikinis.What they reveal is interesting, but what they 	conceal is vital".
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Ewing and Robinson in Olympics
From: <YUKQC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tuesday, 28 Jul 1992 19:06:41 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

This is sort of a follow-up to my previous message about my dissapointment
on DT's performance so far...

The major reason for my dissapointment is the lack of high-level half-court
games (like I said, DT relies almost exclusively on fast breaks/transition
games), and the generally poor showing of Ewing and Robinson throughout
T.O.E., French exhibition game, and the two games in Barcelona.
Someone in the net said the most formidable squad might be the one
that includes Ewing and Robinson, and I agreed...but as we all know
that has not turned out to be the case so far.

But a little thinking reveals that Ewing and Robinson's poor performance
in offense is only a necessary consequence of the team's heavy bias toward
fast breaks. You can't expect Patric to run the floor leading fast B,
David can run, but still he has the responsibility of blocking shots and
rebounding and so again you can't expect him run much. The team has not
done much solid half-court game (in fact pretty musch piss-quality)
where centers are supposed to do their jobs. DT has not committed itself
to delivering the ball to Patric ot David. Anyone remember poor Patric
was standing still waiting for the ball yesterday? (sorry, that should
have been "Patrick".) Anyone remember poor David trying to drive to
the basket or taking a jump shot because no one gave him the ball?
The dream teamers ought to realize that fast breaks are not the only
thing that impresses people. They should maintain concentration and play
much better half-court games, allowing Ewing and Robinson to do their jobs
down low, Mullin, Bird, Laettner to shoot perimeters off the screen.
Another noteworthy thing is the stupid international rule that forbids
alley-oops--a trademark of Ewing and Robinson. For God's sake, David
should be a star in Barcelona if alley-oops were allowed, showing off
that spectacular reverse dunk off an alley-oop.

So I'm now sympathetic to those two guys, and if Jordan meant them
in his criticism, I'd say that would be an unwarranted one.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei)
Subject: Re: Warriors--Bulls
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:49:59 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.213631.29164@menudo.uh.edu> st1ge@Rosie.UH.EDU writes:
>     The Warriors usually play the Bulls VERY early in the season.  The
>Bulls did not start their season very well for the last 2 years.  That
>may be the reason.  
>
>     Jordan has not played very well against the Warriors (for some
>mysterious reasons).  Statistics showed that Jordan averaged just over
>20 points playing against the Warriors, and less than 20 while playing
>at Oakland, both of those are lowest among all the NBA teams.

Well, before the reason was Mitch Richmond, who I think I've heard Jordan
says gives him the toughest competition anywhere.  And now...could it be
hard driving Marciulonis?  Hmmm...and who does guard Pippen anyway?