HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: uekleinf@mcs.Drexel.edu (Erik Kleinfelder)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: Driver additions
Date: 27 Aug 92 23:17:49 GMT
	<UEKLEINF.92Aug25231833@queen.mcs.Drexel.edu>
	<17h618INNs3o@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
Organization: Drexel University

beeman@cats.ucsc.edu (Adam Beeman) said:

Adam> Ah, but wait, I think we're missing someone.... where's John Price? (the
Adam> maker of the -DR series)  Hey! how did I get in here! I'm not a driver coder!
Adam> Oh, that's right, I'm a beta-tester and idea man.  But you, Erik, you're not
Adam> qualified to be one like me, so you're out of the loop altogether.  You
Adam> go sit on the curb and wait for us to come to a conclusion we can ALL agree
Adam> on.  But your voice won't count, sorry, that's the way it goes...


Adam> (insert 10,000 smileys here for the humor-impaired.) 

     I hope so, I was only making a suggestion that might solve a lot of
this arguing about what driver is better and what this one has that this
one doesn't.

Adam> Buddha@TMI

Erik (Gunther God@Dragon's Den -- 129.25.7.111 2222)

P.S.

     Smile, be happy Adam.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: beeman@cats.ucsc.edu (Adam Beeman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: sub-objects and MudOS virtual objects
Date: 28 Aug 1992 18:40:47 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


In article <escott.715018551@csuvax1> escott@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Evan Scott) writes:
>beeman@cats.ucsc.edu (Adam Beeman) writes:
>>MudOS is *years* ahead of its time, surely.
>
 [ stuff deleted ]

I was kidding, ok?

>
>Bing on,
>Ember.
>


-- 
#include <std_disclaimer.h>
#define NAME	"Adam Beeman"
#define EMAIL	"beeman@{cats, ucscb}.ucsc.edu"
inherit SIGNATURE; // enhanced .sig virus
From: jlw@gestalt.austin.tx.us (James Waldrop)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: Sarcasm and Ember
Date: 30 Aug 92 23:29:12 GMT
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory, NM

mmcg@cs.monash.edu.au (Mike  Mc Gaughey) writes:
>jlw@HEBREW.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (James Waldrop) writes:
>>You're implying that this isn't happening.  Have you ever talked to me
>>about the MudOS driver, or TMI in general?
>
>Well, *I* have.  You knew fuck all about it, since Buddha did
>most of the interesting bits (you hadn't even *read* it!
>Jesus, and you want people to *listen* to you?).

I talked to you about Buddha losing all the files when he went on his
rampage at the end of May.  In fact NO ONE at TMI during that time
*except* Buddha knew where most of the bin commands, log files, and
include files were hidden.  I don't feel like going into the circumstances
surrounding the situation, but suffice it to say that I got very frustrated
trying to debug the finger command one afternoon, and logged into LPSwat
to relax, at which point we struck up our conversation.

I'd appreciate it if you'd confine your remarks to things about which
you have a clear memory.

As far as Buddha having done most of the interesting parts, you'll have
to define interesting.  I do not plan on trying to convince you, or anyone
else, that my contributions to TMI have been either more or less than
Buddha's.

Sulam
-- 
James Waldrop
jlw@hebrew.cc.columbia.edu

I walk along the path muttering about signs and portents.
From: beeman@cats.ucsc.edu (Adam Beeman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: * PEACE PLEASE! *
Date: 29 Aug 92 03:22:12 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


In article <michael.715052408@pv0237.vincent.iastate.edu> michael@iastate.edu (Michael M. Huang) writes:
>
>-michael
>
>-- 
>Michael Ming-Yang Huang                                michael@iastate.edu
>PV Student Dev. Group &                                (michaelhg@ids.net)
>Carver/Vis. Lab Assist         "A mind is such a terrible thing to waste."
>Iowa State Univ, Ames, IA      I speak for myself an' not of my employers.


What a dicky .sig.


-- 
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
#define NAME	"Adam Beeman"
#define EMAIL	"beeman@{cats, ucscb}.ucsc.edu"
inherit SIGNATURE; // enhanced .sig virus
From: jlw@HEBREW.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (James Waldrop)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: MudOS running a 3.1.2 mudlib
Date: 27 Aug 92 00:17:35 GMT

djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson) writes:
>MudOS can run a standard 3.1.2 mudlib.
>
>Can it really?  Even if you use/expect strings with uids/euids?

First of all, you can #define EUID or something like that in your
config.h, and have the standard system, rather than the MudOS one.
Second, it's very easy to write master.c in such a way as to deal
with both.

I could probably get mudlib.n to run under MudOS with about 20
minutes work.  That's really a pessimistic number too.  The only
true compatibility breaker that I can think of is that MudOS
changed the way catch_tell() to something that is actually consistent.
Ie, interactives get it called too, and then they do a receive() to
have it message'd into their stream.  So adding the function
void catch_tell(string str) { receive(str); } is the first thing
I'd do, even though I'm not sure it's necessary.

MudOS has mainly added features, changed some internals (but
invisibly), and fixed bugs.  Most new features and compatibility
breakers or #undef'able.  I say most just to cover my ass if I've
forgotten one that isn't.

>Putting in lots of various new features/efuns is ok, but not
>for me though.  (what a pain it was reading some mudlibs that used
>these features extensively - including 2 incompatible versions of
>sprintf)  Of course, if we started using MudOS or something else,
>we'd have another year bout with finding code that our cranky
>machine chokes on - at least with Lars, if I told him of a bug,
>it would be fixed in the next version...

If I were Truilkan, Wayfarer, or Jacques, and reading this, I would
jump down your throat.  You haven't worked with MudOS, so you have
no clue how good we are about incorporating bug fixes.  Why don't
you grab a MudOS Changelog sometime, and see how many times the
version was incremented for a bug fix.  The only reason 0.9.0 hasn't
been released yet is because we had some problems running under
HP-UX (I think that's what Genocide runs).  Please, run MudOS on
your machine and send in your problems.  One of the major goals
of the project is to run on as many platforms as we possibly can.

Sulam
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: amylaar@mcshh.Hanse.DE (Joern Rennecke)
Subject: Re: Darker Realms - The Mudlib
Organization: Point of Presence & MCS Hamburg
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 04:09:34 GMT

jacob@fy.chalmers.se (Jacob Hallen) writes:

>In article <1992Aug20.041547.1704@mcshh.Hanse.DE> amylaar@mcshh.Hanse.DE (Joern Rennecke) writes:
>>djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson) writes:
>>
>>>Er, not to get in the way of your wonderful fight, but this reminded
>>>me of something that seemed inefficient to me.  Namely, the way
>>>swapping works.  What happens (in standard 3.1.2) is that after
>>>swapping in some code, the portion it occupied in the swap file
>>>can never be used again.  Not really a big deal, but over time,
>>>the swap file can get *huge*.  Especially when time to swap is
>>>low in order to save memory...
>>
>>That's one of the gaping holes in the gamedriver...
>>About a dozen FIT_STYLES to choose from, and there will be probably one of
>>these that makes all other useless...

>This sounds unnecessarily complicated. Can't we just from time to time
>copy the relevant stuff to an other file and scrap the old one?
>I don't think this is a speed critical part of the game. Please
>correct me if I'm wrong.

This is a very I/O and memory intensive part. Even the current swapping
mechanism can cause serious trouble when it goes via nfs. A local disk
has more performance, but we need lots of this: Variables and strings
occupy more memory than programs. They should probably be swapped out too,
but this means frequent re-writing of the swap entry.
And you have to bear in mind that a response time of a second is already a
terrible lag... We need a real time swapper to satisfy real time system
demands.

	Amylaar
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: whale@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen Schmidt)
Subject: Re: Virtual Rooms and Objects (was: Re: MudOS a ripoff?)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 17:01:14 GMT


beeman@cats.ucsc.edu (Adam Beeman) writes:
>>Notice all the set_* functions? what a waste... unless you like typing
>>set_this_silly_variable(value) a lot.  I'm in the process of doing away
>>with most of this. In my system a single pair of functions, set() and query()
>>can deal with quite a lot of this stuff.
>>The virtual rooms can save us a lot of pain in this sort of situation.

Another problem with this idea is that sooner or later someone is going to
use a property name that someone else already defined... When you had to
define a variable in player.c to add your hook you could easily look at
the variables in player.c and make sure you weren't duplicating one. Under
the property system there is no central list of properties in use, because
the only place the property name appears is in the code of the object(s) that
set and query it. This has the potential to cause some spectacular Heisenbugs.
  Buddha - you ought to be keeping a central list of properties in use to
avoid this.
-- 
Steve Schmidt			<><		   whale@leland.stanford.edu

"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Walt Kelly
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: oakley@contra.enet.dec.com (The Zeeker)
Subject: Re: **** TOP 10 LPMUDs ****
Organisation: Treadstone Seventy-One
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard, MA.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 11:53:17 GMT


In article <ANIPA.92Aug24195718@sotka.cs.tut.fi>, anipa@cs.tut.fi (Niilo Neuvo) writes...
>> We DO NOT ever experience random crashes and never have. In most cases I tend
>> to crash the game while testing something I know that can cause a shutdown.
>> (Like updating the master object!)
> 
>For the players a crash is a crash. Current version of BatMUD's driver
>does not crash no matter what happens to the master object (even if
>the updated version is buggy). I see nothing evil in fixing bugs like
>that.
	Either that or eliminate the crashing problem completely
	by coding object-savable lockers to store things when you leave
	or if the game crashes, you HAVE something.

>What do you do if a random wiz gets pissed at you and decides to harm
>the mud by crashing it 'randomly' to well known bugs. It is very hard
>to nail such people (not that I have ever encountered one).

	I have encountered such people, but from my experience most
	people who get pissed are either a) bad coders b) don't really
	care about being caught	 c) aren't planning on playing any more
	and trying to see how fast they can be kicked off.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Brought to you by Treadstone Seventy-One Corporation.
--- --- --- | /  "Come not between the dragon and his wroth!"
 /  |-  |-  |    		- Lear, King of England
--- --- --- | \
_________________________________________________________________
From: chena@crs.cl.msu.edu (Antony Chen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: * PEACE PLEASE! *
Date: 30 Aug 92 21:56:01 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University

beeman@cats.ucsc.edu (Adam Beeman) writes:


>In article <mmcg.715147474@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au> mmcg@cs.monash.edu.au (Mike  Mc Gaughey) writes:
>>ins894r@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Aaron Wigley [Wigs]) writes:
>>>Adam Beeman (beeman@cats.ucsc.edu) wrote:
>>>: Ah, aren't you from Shattered Worlds?
>>>: Hey, can you tell me if they *really* exist anymore?

>>>I can. We exist. Here's our player motd:
>>[...]

>This doesn't prove ANYTHING!
>Anyone can write an motd and post it to news.   You haven't proven a damn
>thing.  Sorry, bud, I refuse to accept this "evidence"...


>>I should point out that like all the other postings
>>originating from here, Wiggs is a figment of our
>>collective hallucination...
>>

>Just like your mud.

>>Mike.

>Adam, unfortunately also Buddha@TMI

Hmm...I saw the motd..wasn't impressed.  The motd did say that the mud's
hours were HEAVILY restricted.  And how can you call it a mud if the
IP address is hidden from the world?  What kind of mud is that?  Any dolt
can set up a mud on a machine, run it for sixty seconds and call it a mud.
Damn..that means I've run a mud several hundred times..*laugh*

Tony, unfortuately also Melvin@TMI...haha
****************************************************************************
MMMMM      MMMMM  Antony Chen aka MELVIN @ University of Michigan, Ann Arbor
 MMMM      MMMM   GO BLUE!!  THE FAB 5 RULES: Mama said knock you out! 
 MMM MM  MM MMM   Mud-related mail: tonychen@engin.umich.edu
 MMM  MMMM  MMM      Personal mail: Antony.Chen@um.cc.umich.edu
 MMM   MM   MMM          Misc mail: tchen@churchst.ccs.itd.umich.edu
MMMMM      MMMMM  ***********************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: chena@crs.cl.msu.edu (Antony Chen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: **** TOP 10 LPMUDs ****
Keywords: Spam, Phoenix, Lambda Realms, Wastelands.  In that order damnit!!
Date: 26 Aug 92 03:53:06 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University

wconsidi@orlith.bates.edu (William Considine) writes:

[stuff deleted]

>we please try to use this place for 'News' rather than continued polemics 
>about irrelevant opinion-bashing.  Naturally someone out there will be offended
>by my posting and will flame me for this, but i felt the need to try to make
>a little peace here.

[more stuff deleted..WH had much to say!]

FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME!!! *grin*

Anyways, to get to some relevant news, as Whitehawk believes, TMI is in
the midst of losing their site.  Buddha, the main dude there, was not
able to regain dogstar, the machine it ran on previously.  So, if any of
you have ever signed onto TMI to ask for help, or to get some docs, or
to learn code, or to just talk, then start feeling responsible!  Help
TMI find a site!  Do you have any idea what the mud world would be like
without TMI?  Lemme list a few:
     1. no more publicly available updated versions of MudOS which would
        suck because TMI is one of the last to keep LPmud's evolution alive
     2. nowhere to ask for help...even if you're gonna ask a stupid question
        *smile*...
     3. since most muds don't allow you to look at files in /secure, sometimes
        you can only advance your knowledge so far, without TMI, most people
        wouldn't have access to docs and core code.
     4. wouldn't have a place to test out code...
hmm..lots more reasons..not gonna list them ALL...but you see my point...
if you've used TMI for any reason, time to return the favor..help them
find a site...I'm just someone who would not be happy to see TMI go..more
for selfish reasons than anything else, but a good deed with bad intentions
is still a good deed  :)

****************************************************************************
MMMMM      MMMMM  Antony Chen aka MELVIN @ University of Michigan, Ann Arbor
 MMMM      MMMM   GO BLUE!!  THE FAB 5 RULES: Mama said knock you out! 
 MMM MM  MM MMM   Mud-related mail: tonychen@engin.umich.edu
 MMM  MMMM  MMM      Personal mail: Antony.Chen@um.cc.umich.edu
 MMM   MM   MMM          Misc mail: tchen@churchst.ccs.itd.umich.edu
MMMMM      MMMMM  ***********************************************************
From: amylaar@mcshh.Hanse.DE (Joern Rennecke)
Subject: Re: **** TOP 10 LPMUDs ****
Organization: Point of Presence & MCS Hamburg
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 19:59:35 GMT

djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson) writes:

>>3. Linus Tolke's patches to speed up functionname look up

>Where can this be found?  

>>1. automatic wordwrap with per user definable screen width
>>2. Sean Reith's printf and sprintf (1.05)
>>3. Linus Tolke's patches to speed up functionname look up (version from Mar 18)
>>4. Dworkin's mappings (version from Mar 18)
>>5. uses the native mode snoop code.
>>6. get_dir() and stat() from MudOS 0.8.14
>>7. query_ip_name() changed to also accept an ip-number as argument.
>>8. set_bit(), clear_bit() and test_bit() accepts int or string as argument.

Anybody want me to post me the part of my DONE file that goes beyond 3.1.2 ?
It's only 13 KB :-)

>I believe in putting in bug fixes - but the SHOULD BE GOING INTO
>3.1.3!!  Someone really should be working on this *sigh*.

Who's to say what version is to be called 3.1.3 ?

>machine chokes on - at least with Lars, if I told him of a bug,
>it would be fixed in the next version...

You can't expect anybody else to fix bugs if you only tell lars about them.
The latter being, FYI, pretty pointless, he didn't even answer questions
about basic design issues lately.

	Amylaar
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: Driver additions
Date: 26 Aug 92 00:13:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: sdcc12.37243
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

>One of my
>favorite features in MudOS is the system of mappings, to duplicate this in
>3.1.2 requires you to use two arrays, and even this doesn't come close to the
>effect of a mapping.

Aren't mappings just the same thing as associative arrays with a better
syntax?  (and aren't there two incompatible versions of mappings? :-)
Ie, assoc(), insert_alist(), etc.  Why would anyone want to do the
two-array method?  yeesh

The simplified syntax has the drawback that some people may think
that they're very inexpensive to use when they're not.

And again, if 3.1.2 is so HORRIBLY buggy as everyone says, why the
hell is everyone hiding the bug fixes???
-- 
Darin Johnson
djohnson@ucsd.edu
  - Brought to you by the 'Elvis in 92' committee.
From: v116qhth@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (I'm not evil...I'm just good looking)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: tell me? 2
Date: 26 Aug 92 20:01:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


  what is the difference between rec.games.mud.lp and rec.games.mud?
  what exactly is an lpmud? definitive answer requested?
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: mmcg@cs.monash.edu.au (Mike  Mc Gaughey)
Subject: Re: sub-objects and MudOS virtual objects
Organization: Computer Science, Monash University, Australia
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 10:32:39 GMT

jlw@HEBREW.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (James Waldrop) writes:

>> [saved subobjects]

>Even worse, how do you handle object pointers to things that haven't
>logged back in yet?  Or another problem, you say only cloned objects
>can be saved, so you have a pointer to /std/sword#345, but when you
>come back it's gonna be /std/sword#22 or somesuch confusion.  Possibly
>if you logged all the players back in, but linkdead, and you had some
>way of stamping objects, but then you're getting dangerously close to
>recreating the conditions that probably caused the crash in the first
>place.

We *have* been using this for 15 months or so, you know.

Mike.




--
Mike McGaughey			AARNET:	mmcg@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au

"Head stompin', ass kickin', finger licking nastiness"
From: djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: wizlist in native 3.1.2.
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:36:05 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

>Could some kind soul please tell me what I have to do to fix it?  My C isn't
>exactly up to scratch (though I reckon my LPC is :).

Simple, in func_spec.c, remove the wizlist line.  This way, you
can't call the function, and wizards won't run around giving out
gobs of treasure to bribe players so that their "score" increases.
-- 
Darin Johnson
djohnson@ucsd.edu
    "I wonder what's taking Guybrush so long..."
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: oakley@contra.enet.dec.com (The Zeeker)
Subject: Re: Driver additions
Organisation: Treadstone Seventy-One
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard, MA.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 00:52:01 GMT


In article <R1h-h##@engin.umich.edu>, guile@engin.umich.edu (Kenneth K Lee) writes...
>      As long as MudOS is an LPmud game driver, the MudOS mudlib is a LPmud
>mudlib.  As for having 2.4.5 as a standard, WHY?  Why go back to something as
>inefficient as 2.4.5 and it's 2000+ lines of player.c?  There are enough 
>2.4.5 mudlib-based Lp's to go around, how about seeing something different
>than the humpbacked bridge?

	As far as I can see, 2.4.5 IS a standard.  Nice, it works, not
	very buggy.  I have yet to see a 3.0 Mudlib in vanilla state
	that ACTUALLY WORKS !!  That was the great thing about 2.4.5
	Mudlib, you could do whatever you wanted with it.  BUG-FREE!

>>
>>Erik (Gunther God@Dragon's Den -- 129.25.7.111 2222)
> 
>[.sig]                           		Guile@engin.umich.edu
> 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Brought to you by Treadstone Seventy-One Corporation.
--- --- --- | /  "Come not between the dragon and his wroth!"
 /  |-  |-  |    		- Lear, King of England
--- --- --- | \
_________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: amylaar@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (J"orn Rennecke)
Subject: Re: Hack'n'slash not for me
Organization: Techn. University of Berlin, Germany
Distribution: fb20
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 01:33:07 GMT

anipa@cs.tut.fi (Niilo Neuvo) writes:

me> No. Pretty simple: Either isolate the file access from the player object,
>
>This is a good idea, on BatMUD I have written a ftpd in lpc (we have a
>nice networking package). Having the 'editing' on a different port and
>the playing on a different port would probably work.

What i meant was that the master needen't call valid_read()/valid_write()
in this_player(), or whatever, but might decide itself to allow or deny access.

	Amylaar
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: dbn@rti.rti.org
Subject: Re: What happened to Overdrive?
Organization: Research Triangle Institute, RTP, NC
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 13:32:43 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.111930.18624@ctr.columbia.edu> manutter@grove.iup.edu (M. Nutter) writes:
>Anybody know what happened to Overdrive?  I haven't been able to
>connect for over a day now, and I'm starting to get the dt's. :)

Overdrive is down.  The sys admins at the current site want Overdrive gone.
One of the gods will make an official announcement concerning this later
today.  If you have a site, let me know.

-Florentino


Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
From: drothar@cats.ucsc.edu (The Omniscient)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: Hack'n'slash tread
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:52:29 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


In article <BtGMMA.L0y@wpi.WPI.EDU> bcranton@coal.WPI.EDU (Brian W. Cranton) writes:
>
>    This has always been a favorite of mine, have a cityguard class.
>		[...]
>    A sick idea:  An undertaker class.  You get exp for burying all the

How about a farmer class?  You could get experience for yearly harvests,
growth of your animal population, etc... Or maybe a serf class.  You would
get experience from going around poking the soil with a stick [a la Dave
Barry].  As you became higher and higher in level, you could get bigger and
sharper sticks until finally you became Lord of the Serfs [not that you could
do anything special as such.]  Or maybe homeless/beggar multi classing...
Practice living in boxes, cultivating diseases like leprosy and gangrene...
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp