HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: phil@miracle.com (Phil Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: MODERATE R.O.M.? (was Re: Blasphemy?)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 12:32:50 EDT
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA) writes:
>
>
>>This newsgroup, being unmoderated, is a party without a bouncer.
>>
>>GMS
>
>Too true. 
>
>How many people would be interested in a moderated version of R.O.M? 
>I would, for one.

I don't like the idea.  Moderating R.O.M. wouldn't stop Tai, he would just
figure out how to fake moderator approval for his garbage. (If I can figure
out how, I'm sure that Tai can). 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Hill                     | "All you people in TV land,           |
| Miracle Computer Consultants  |   I will wake up your empty shells.   |
|                               |  Peak time viewing blown in a flash,  |
|                               |   as I burn into your memory cells.   |
| Email: phil@miracle.com       |  'cause I'm alive." - Peter Gabriel   |
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Jealousy (from the pages of omni....)
Date: 21 Jan 93 23:51:12 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <C16HoG.IGF@cs.dal.ca>, kumar@ug.cs.dal.ca (kumar yelubandi)
wrote:
> 
> >Gilbert writes:
> >>I write:
[omitted]

> >>     Mensans are no more gifted than their 'highest value' member, 
> >"highest value"?  Most moral?  Most valued in some abstract sense?
> >Highest IQ?  Most intelligent by some unknown, objective criteria?
> >Most liked?  Highest position in the organization?  (I hope not)
> 
> 
> 
> 	Unless this is an open declaration of mischief, I suggest you 
> 	reassess this trivial pursuit.   (If, off chance, you are lacking 
> 	in either intent or intuition, 'highest-value' means 
> 	highest-scoring Mensan indoctrinee or something to that effect.)

It may mean that to you, but it doesn't mean that to anyone in Mensa.  We
know that a person's IQ is not an indication of value--especially of value
to Mensa.  The people of "value" to mensa include those who do things for
the betterment of the organization and/or its members.  We do not
necessarily include mind-reading among our skills, so we had no idea what
you meant--his question was far from trivial.

> >>     whereas non-Mensans have the potential to be more.  Which subset
> >
> >More than the 'highest value' member of Mensa?  Why?  What criteria
> >are you referring to?
> >>     would you rather belong to?  
> >Well, gee, I don't know.
> 
> 
> 	I shouldn't be surprised
> 
> 		Kumar
> 
> ps:	I'm really not this cruel %99.99994 of the time...however, I 
> 	have a low tolerance for elitists and those that ride the 
> 	intellectual ferris wheel.

So, why were you doing it?  it seems to me that you're the one riding that
wheel and being elitist.

> 	...up, down, 'round and 'round...not a destination to choose.
> 
> 
> 
> 	(...and I'm always cruel to myself    :)   )

Ah; *that* explains it. :-)

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                         Boycott Colorado                            |
|     These are my opinions, and not necessarily any one else's.      |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: From the Pages of Omni, Part II
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:09:06 GMT

In article <315723.723315@acme.com> wecoyote@warner.acme.com (Wile E Coyote)[GENIUS COYOTIUS] writes:
>
>From the pages of Omni magazine (Feb/Mar 93):
>
>TAKE THIS INSTANT TEST TO SEE IF YOU'RE A GENIUS.

[....]

>Ahem,  It still amazes me that 6 out of 10 Mensans are "stumped"
>by the puzzles that they advertise.  My cat Mittens could

It may be due to their definition of "stumped" -- i. e., do they
mean "give up with no answer" or "giving another answer that
they don't consider valid.  These problems appear to have a lot
of possible solutions.  Also, note that this is one of the
reasons IQ tests have so many questions.  Any given person has
a finite probability of getting a given problem "wrong" at
any point in time.

>figure this one out, and she's not even in the top 2 percentile
>in the animal kingdom.  It makes you wonder, doesn't it.  Why 
>would they choose such an advertising campaign which portrays
>6 out of 10 Mensans as a 'clueless goobers' while the other 
>4 probably had to use a Cray supercomputer to figure out the

It seems rather obvious that this kind of appeal to the
market works for the same reason you see so many posters
consumed by Mensa and the need to brand it as evil.  The
readers may be attracted to the opportunity to prove they're
better that those "smart" people, while not having to risk
being proved "less smart".  Even if they get it wrong, they're
still as good as most of the "smart" people.  No risk to ego
either way.  Sort of like backing out of an argument by 
saying, "I don't care what you say, I'm right."

>solution.  According to the ad, if you can figure out
>the puzzle, you may qualify to join Mensa.  The ad also
>states that 60% were "stumped."  If that is so, then
>how could those 60% possibly have gotten into Mensa.
>WARNING... WARNING....
>CONTRADICTION ALERT!!!! CONTRADICTION ALERT!!!!!
>We have stumbled onto something here, haven't we?

I don't think so, Tim.

>Any thoughts on this?
>Also, what about that 800 number:
>
>  1-800-66MENSA = 1-800-666-3671
>	                ^^^
>Ah... what might this number be saying to us?

This is the street address of Phil Edelstein, Creator
of the Universe and owner and operator of "Phil's Easy-Fill",
in Phoenix, AZ.

>Might Mensa be in liege with the almight evil himself?

Phil's a nice guy and kind of old, and not as "almight"
as he used to be.

GMS
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:57:18 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <1993Jan20.084457.119776@marshall.wvnet.edu>,
smith@marshall.wvnet.edu wrote:
> 
> As a first year Mensan who is considering the renewal question, I have 
> found this conversation thread quite interesting. I am one of the 
> aforementioned Mensans who does not have time to attend meetings or parties,
> but I do enjoy reading the regional and national newsletters. From my meager
> experience thus far, I draw the following conclusions:
> 
> 	1.  Maybe just sharing a high level of intelligence isn't enough
> 	    to sustain the cohesiveness required for such a large 
> 	    organization.  

It may be that circa 50,000 nationally or 110,000 internationally is the
maximum size for a group such as Mensa--which may explain why the
organization hasn't grown larger.  When I joined in 1969, American Mensa
had much fewer members; if membership number is any indication, I was the
5,154th person to join.

> 	2.  Other than discussions  relating to our intelligence level,
> 	    and whether or not intelligence and religion are positively
> 	    correlated, the level and diversity of intelligent exchange
> 	    I have observed among Mensans is not so different than 
> 	    elsewhere. Thus the questions becomes 'So why stay?'

The discussions you've observed have been on this forum, I assume from your
statement that you don't have time to attend meetings or parties.  The
topics you referenced were initiated by non-Mensans.  We usually have too
much to talk about than to talk about intelligence.  If we want to be
serious, there are more productive subjects, and if we want to have fun,
the topic isn't fun enough.

"Why stay?"  If you can't get to parties and/or meetings or to gatherings,
and if the newsletters and the Bulletin aren't enough to hold your
interest, there is nothing that I can say (other than to try some national
SIGs) that will persuade you to stay if you can't find a reason on your
own.  For me, Mensa is the parties, discussion groups, and gatherings.  The
newsletters and Bulletin comprise the glue that holds it together.  For
others, Mensa is the SIGs.  I knew one member who, in the six years that I
knew him, attended exactly one meeting, but who belonged to a dozen or two
SIGs (and held office in some of them).  I met him again about two months
ago at the Phoenix RG, which he attended only to hear Timothy Leary talk. 
He told me at the end of the RG that he wished he had found RGs earlier,
cause he enjoyed it a lot and would go to more of them.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                         Boycott Colorado                            |
|     These are my opinions, and not necessarily any one else's.      |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:51:00 GMT


>From: Linda Cunningham <Linda.Cunningham@p811.f70.n109.z1.fidonet.org>
>Message-ID: <728013638.AA00000@blkcat.UUCP>
>
>They "lost" me when I decided that I had better things to do with my life than
>stand around pontificating about my LSAT score, which was the common theme of
>conversation when more than two were in the same room. Also, I wasn't terribly
>impressed with the way they treated women; I've seen slobbering teenaged boys
>have more class....

In that case, don't apply to Harvard, MIT, or Caltech, where SAT
scores etc. pop up in many conversations the first few weeks.
But after a while, they get tired of it.  I guess the key might
be to have meetings often enough for the IQ score flamers to get
it out of their systems.
From: BFFN@MUSICT.MCGILL.CA (BFFN000)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: RE: MARITIME PROCTOR??
Date: 27 Jan 93 01:48:37 GMT
Organization: McGill University

In article <26JAN93.21386893.0182@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> D237@UNB.CA (JENNIFER) writes:
>Can anyone tell me where the closest test proctor to me would be?
>I live in Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada.

The nearest local organizations to you are in Halifax/Dartmouth and
Quebec City.  Since you are in the Maritimes, I assume that you would
come under the jurisdiction of the Halifax M group.  The local secretary
of the Halifax chapter is, according to the latest issue of MC2:

Carol Rodgers
207-1109 Cole Harbor Rd.
Dartmouth, NS
B2E 1E8
tel: (902) 462-0648

and the address of the regional newsletter is:

AM/FM (Atlantic Message for Mensans)
David and Dawn Skene
8 Sabra Court
Dartmouth, NS
B2W 4Y5
tel: (902) 462-5480


Good luck.  Hope this helps.

Gary Ng
Montreal, Quebec
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: moroney@world.std.com (Michael Moroney)
Subject: Re: t: t: Blasphemy?
Followup-To: alt.flame
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 05:40:49 GMT

scott@nord.tostit.ca (Scott Andrew Tai) writes:


>Heh.  I *usually* pay no attention to those posting from
>lowly "public access" accounts -- the sole criterion for 
...
>ooh, don't *finger* me -- well, come back when you have a 
>*real* account -- if you know what I mean.  And you 
>probably have not a clue.

Come back yourself when you have a real identity, rather than a fake
or a dozen -- if you know what I mean.

>Point is -- yes.  I am radler, or, maybe, radler is a 
>separate existence in my body, if you like

We are making progress today, "Scott".  Or should I call you Robin?  Perhaps
Ed?  The first step is acceptance of your problem, and today you have
accepted that two of your personalities are really one.

> Sorry though -- am *not* 
>Rimmer, Arnold J., as you would have me be.)

Oh dear, now we're backsliding.  You must accept the fact you are only
one person with one identity, perhaps we should stop here and accept your
merging of two personalities into one as progress.

-Mike
From: jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 16:55:24 EDT
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager) writes:

>Have you really done a survey?  Or is this just projection?

No, I haven't.

-John


 ==========================================================================
       John Cooley              Zappa as a waste management engineer: 
                                  "Hey, there, Brother!  Whatcha
    jcooley@miracle.com            doing with that Cosmic Debris?"
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Gay Mensans?
From: <MORIARTY@NDSUVM1.BITNET>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 14:44:36 CST
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network

I betthat got your attention.  :-)  The title speaks for itself
so where do we go from here?
     Virtually,     Michael
From: jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 01:24:34 EDT
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:

>No quoting is usually as bad as excessive quoting.
>
>--Mike

I disagree.  Most of us use subject readers that make quotes unneccessary.

-john

 ==========================================================================
       John Cooley              Zappa as a waste management engineer: 
                                  "Hey, there, Brother!  Whatcha
    jcooley@miracle.com            doing with that Cosmic Debris?"  

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: Non-flaming dialogue wanted
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:40:59 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.033826.14456@vela.acs.oakland.edu> atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Cardinal Ximenez) writes:
}  I picked up a lot of information from the people who posted responses to my
}questions.  I appreciate the fact that everyone was willing to take me at my
}word.  As far as I can see, I am questioning three assumptions of Mensa, which
}I have listed from most to least fundamental.
}
}1)  Very intelligent people need an organization so that they can exercise
}    their high intelligence.

I don't think we _need_ one, but is nice to have one, so we _want_ one.

}The Polymath writes:
}
}} 2) I have yet to see any social group in which peer pressure eliminated
}}    anyone who, for one reason or another, didn't seem to get the hint that
}}    there were not many people who particularly enjoyed having them around.

I didn't write this.  I don't entirely agree with it.

[ Stuff deleted ]

It continues to amaze, and annoy, that perfect strangers have the gall to
come to an organization of 75,000+ members that has been in existence for
decades and demand that we totally reorganize to agree with their personal
ideas of how we should comport ourselves.

Mensa is what it is.  It will continue so.  If you don't like what it is,
don't join.  If you think you have a better way of doing things, by all
means, do it.  Don't expect us to drop everything and get in line behind
you just because you think we should.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                "If you can't stand solitude,
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483  perhaps others find you boring
Santa Monica, CA  90405                        as well."  -- Mark Twain
From: jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 19:02:45 EDT
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

shapiro@cfsctc.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro) writes:
>Personally I think that Mensa is wonderful. But it is one of those kinds of
>groups where you have to participate to get full benefits from the group. I
>realize this and accept it as the nature of the group.
>
>But now that I don't have the time to participate fully, is it worth retaining
>membership, just in case? I guess it is kind of like having an attorney on
>retainer. You think that you're never going to need to use it, but just in case
>you have to, its nice to know its available. 8-)


 Steve, one of the things that always amazed me in social organizations
 is that the majority of people who join them, reguardless whether it's
 the American Legion or the Royal Order of the Moose, are inactive.  The
 numbers typically range between 85% to 99% of members!

 When I did my monthly LocSec's column in the Boston local newsletter calling
 for new faces to come out to help run Boston Mensa by joining our Secret
 Cabal of insiders, I recieved the following reactions:

               - "Yes, I'm interested in becoming more active!"

               - "I'd like to, but my life's busy.  I like Boston
                  Mensa's calendar and event though I don't have time
                  to go to anything, it's reassuring that it's there."

 To me, the concept's a little odd that people wouldn't want to at least
 attend one or two events of an organization that (some of them) have been
 members of for over 10 to 15 years!
                                                  - John


 ==========================================================================
       John Cooley              Zappa as a waste management engineer: 
                                  "Hey, there, Brother!  Whatcha
    jcooley@miracle.com            doing with that Cosmic Debris?"  

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Something in us going wrong ...
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 15:32:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.080823.24460@ncsu.edu> truth@mvs.ais.com (Matt Truth) writes:
>
>gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>: kyle@wendy-fate.UU.NET (Kyle Jones) writes:
>: >not@mvs.ais.com (N O Tai) writes:
>: > > I quite agree that Scott's behavior at times has been
>: > > reprehensible, but may I beg you to take into account that it
>: > > was a mistake and make allowances for his youth?  Besides
>: > > which, he regrets it deeply and entreats your forgiveness.
>: >Having been around in the early days of rec.org.mensa and
>: >experiencing months of Tai's net.logorrhea I have to say that I
>: >would waste neither reason nor mercy nor forgiveness on him.
>: >What Tai needs is his own universe and with luck he'll find his
>: >way to it.
>: But, see, he changes his name, repeats things and whines!
>: Get it?  Ha-ha!  I have a retarded parrot, but he can't change
>: his name.
>
>Get up, you idle boy!  You seem to be a perfect idiot, and what's
>more... an awful scoundrel.  I always feel stirred by your
[....]
>: I have a crappy 1200bd system ...
>: How the heck did *I* end up in this? ...
>: I get bored by stupid, repetitive, obvious, tedious conversation ...
>: You've frequently lost me (frequently = three or more times) ...
>: The original poster babbles incoherently and then leaves ...
>: Disgusting example of a bloated ego ...
>The myth of your intelligence, while formidable, as I see it
>derives mainly from your alienation and strange dislikableness.
>matt truth : i am a man who looks after the pigs : usually i get
>along okay : i am a man who reveals all he digs : should be more
>careful what i say : i am a man  who drives a local bus : i take
>miners to work  but the pits all closed today : it's easy to see
>that you are one of us : ain't it funny  how we all seem to look
>the same?  : i am a young man : i ain't done very much : you men
>should remember how you used to fight : just like a child : i've
>been seeing  only dreams : i'm  all mixed up : but i know what's 
>right :  the  dirty  jobs  : truth@mvs.ais.com : ai systems labs


Sorry, Kyle.  The parrot has a more concise .sig, so I recind
my implication of his inferiority.

GMS
From: gk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Gavin Kerr)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Humility (was Re: From the pages of Omni...)
Date: 21 Jan 93 14:46:11 GMT
Reply-To: gk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Gavin Kerr)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U


NOT a flame, just so no-one gets upset...


>The real secret is sincerity.  Once you learn to fake that you've got
>it made.  (-:{
>

Bob Monkhouse.

>The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
>Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                "If you can't stand solitude,
>3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483  perhaps others find you boring
>Santa Monica, CA  90405                        as well."  -- Mark Twain



Gav : gk@dcs.ed.ac.uk  gk@castle.ed.ac.uk  gkerr@nyx.cs.du.edu

*******************************************************************************
Why don't you ever enter and CONTESTS, Marvin??
 Don't you know your own ZIPCODE?
*******************************************************************************
From: Linda.Cunningham@p811.f70.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Linda Cunningham)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Membership Renewal ??
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:25:30 -0500

On 1/21/93, Steve Shapiro said to All regarding "Membership Renewal ??".... 

  SS> smith@marshall.wvnet.edu writes...
   
  > As a first year Mensan who is considering the renewal question, I have
  > found this conversation thread quite interesting.
   
  SS> As a 10 year Mensan, who for the first time in his membership was 
  SS> considering the renewal question (and therefore started this thread),
  SS> I too have found this conversation quite interesting.
  
As someone who quit reupping several years ago, I agree.
 
  SS> The least of which includes being called names such as 'malcontent'
  SS> and given the impression that Mensa doesn't want 'my kind' and feels
  SS> that I am an 'acceptible loss'.
  
That's been my experience with a number of groups over the years, whether 
they've been devoted to specific sports, computers or just high test scores. 
Having sat on more boards of directors and spent more time volunteering for 
stuff than I care to remember, it's very frustrating to see that mindset take 
over.  Unfortunately, the majority rules, and it's the folks like us who get 
caught in the crossfire.

Will I ever rejoin Mensa? Not likely! Is there a serious discussion going on 
in our house as to how long my husband will stay? You bet.

My experiences with Mensa in the past were not ones I'd prefer to repeat, and 
the events I've attended in the last couple of years (when friends tried to get

be back in) haven't done much to change my mind; if anything, it has hardened. 
I won't even mention my experiences with Intertel, as people may be eating food

as they read this.  :-(

  > I am one of the aforementioned Mensans who does not have time to attend 
  > meetings or parties, but I do enjoy reading the regional and national 
  > newsletters.
   
  SS> Gee, and from the sounds of it in this newsgroup, I would have thought
  SS> that I was the only one! 8-)
 
It's just that those of us who agree with you are also to busy having a real 
life to respond!  :-)

Linda
From: jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Membership Renewal ??
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 01:14:35 EDT
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

shapiro@cfsctc.enet.dec.com (Steve Shapiro) writes:

>You seem to miss the point. I am not implying or suggesting that we can please
>everyone all of the time. 
>
>What I am suggesting is that of the percentage that we are losing, isn't there
>SOMETHING that CAN be done to REDUCE this number?
>
>If you say 'NO', then it is defeatest and why do we even bother to have
>membership drives in the first place since we will probably lose the members
>anyway.
>
>If you say 'YES', then how about some constructive suggestions as to WHAT can
>be done. 
>
>This is what I am doing. As 10+ year members (both me and my wife) we are
>considering for the first time NOT renewing our memberships and have indicated
>the reasons why.


Instead of doing this, please become Boston Mensa's Loss Prevention Officer!

Seriously!  I think you feel strongly enough about this issue to do a good
job.  It's always easy to complain, it's much more of an accomplishment to
do something about it.

                                               - John

 ==========================================================================
       John Cooley              Zappa as a waste management engineer: 
                                  "Hey, there, Brother!  Whatcha
    jcooley@miracle.com            doing with that Cosmic Debris?"