From: julie@cucbs.chem.columbia.edu (Julie Wright)
Newsgroups: soc.singles
Subject: Re: Females have it easy!
Date: 7 Jan 93 00:50:45 GMT
	<oneil.725199192@cwis> <1hiaj3INN5n9@uwm.edu> <4362@novavax.UUCP>
	<93004.154513SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Organization: The Cultural Elite

Graydon <SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:

>bramson@novavax.UUCP (Jennifer Bramson) says:

>>markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark) writes:

>>>you really have to be a man to know
>>>what turns on a man.

>>Which is????????????????????????

>Enthusiasm about the idea of turning him specifically on, from someone
>who doesn't violate any of his self image criteria for who he wants to
>be turned on by.  (And those can drift in the face of enough enthusism.)

>Simple, really.

Graydon, Graydon, Graydon.  Nothing is ever that simple.  Nothing about
men as a group, anyway.

I once went out with a guy who liked me just fine when I felt lukewarm
about him, but would lose interest as soon as I'd start to act enthusiastic
about him.  We'd go through this cycle: he'd be interested in me; I'd be
interested in him; he'd decide maybe it wasn't such a good idea to go
out after all; I'd say, "Oh well, it doesn't seem to be working very well,
looks like maybe I should move on"; he'd get interested again; I'd get
interested again; etc.  (In fact, the entire thing started when he flirted
with me at a party; I flirted back, because I liked him and my friend said
he seemed cool (they knew each other); he seemed to get a little jumpy
but still gave me his phone number when I asked him for it and went out
when I called him up (see, women do ask guys out, though I wouldn't say
this experience was very encouraging), and didn't seem too excited about
going out that time but did ask me out later, and on THAT date he explained
that he'd actually been interested in a friend of mine, not me (one of those
experiences that is simultaneously humiliating and funny, if you're old
enough anyway); I assumed he was blowing me off and acted more distant for
the rest of the evening, at which point he decided he actually liked me
and wanted to go out again!)  

The infuriating (well, exasperating, anyway) thing is that I actually
fell for this crap, however briefly; at the time my self-confidence was
low enough that my main priority was that _he_ like _me_, since he had many
apparent good points, and I really didn't put enough emphasis on how much
fun I was having (or rather, how much I _wasn't_ having!).  I don't think
he was a malicious person, but he wasn't exactly sensitive (keeping in mind
one of my friends' comments, "When we say we want sensitive men, we mean
'thoughtful and considerate', not 'easily wounded'!").  Fortunately, I was
24 and not 16, and my self-confidence was still high enough that I snapped
out of it relatively quickly and said, "What the hell am I doing?"  

At least I learned some lessons out of it (actually, some of these things
were just things I needed to be reminded of): a) I won't go out with anyone
who doesn't want me to like him (I'm not talking about clinginess here,
I'm talking about basic respect and enjoying the other person's company);
b) I won't forget to evaluate whether _I'm_ having any fun while I'm
worrying about whether the other person is or not; c) if someone responds
negatively to me, it doesn't necessarily reflect badly on me, even if I
like them in many ways, because it might have more to do with them than
with me; and d) I'm not as much smarter than everyone else as I think I
am :) .

However, it is fair to say that the only men I'd _want_ to turn on (now
that I know the other kind exists) are men who think it's a Good Thing
when I'm enthusiastic about them specifically.  (It's not a sufficient
condition, but it is a necessary one.)  You were smart to include the
word "specifically" in that definition -- most people aren't too excited
about having someone come on to them _just_ because they're a man/woman...

---Julie


-- 
| "Come here, I want to show you something," he murmured...  "This is     |
| our baby; I had it yesterday," he said.  "My," I said hoarsely, "you're |
| full of surprises," and fell forward into his arms, arms, arms.         |
|             --- from "Sylvia", by Nicole Hollander                      |
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