From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: Straight Stereotypes (was Re: To Laura)
Date: 14 Sep 92 22:23:11 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.


(dyer)
/OK, Bob.  Stop fucking your poker buddies.  

That's why they're poker buddies, Steve.  

HAR! HAR! HAR! . . . sometimes I just get on a roll . . .




(me)
>No I am not asking that.  I am asking what good does it do to bring
>to life all the stereotypes that people have about gays.

/(dyer)
/And who is doing that?

Anyone who voluntarily acts out such stereotypes. 




(me)
>If there were a TV show that featured a gay character, and the individual
>was written into the script to be nelly, campy, etc. the gay community
>would react in protest, saying that the show "furthered negative
>stereotypes and fueld homophobia".  

/ (dyer)
/ [Brothers]
/ [Cheers]
/ [Torch Song Trilogy]
/ [BBC]


This is all well and good, Steve, but you have overlooked a few
things (so what else is new?):

1.  The networks are only going to allow a "watered-down" version of
a gay character to be seen.  By that I mean, you won't see any of the
more flamboyant, outlandish folks on the tube; it just won't sell 
advertisements or help Nielsen ratings.

2.  The arts (film, etc.) have traditionally been more tolerant of
gays.  The fact that Torch Song Trilogy was a hit tells more about the
artistic venue and the intended audience than it does about what the
average American is thinking.  How would it play in Smalltown USA?

3.  These are all situations where the audience has a prolonged exposure
to a character under a controlled environment.  In other words, some things
take time to explain or demonstrate.  
In films and TV, the audience sits through the entire show, and 
over the course of 1/2 hour, or 2 hours, gets to know the character in
his/her role.  
By contrast, in the half-minute or two minute TV exposure that characterizes
the average pride parade, there is no prolonged exposure where the 
script writer can have the person's attention for a fixed amount of time and
present their work.  So, if we know beforehand that we only have two minutes
maximum to get our point across, what do we want to say in two minutes?



(dyer)
/the marvelous complexity of what is Bob Sarver,
/who has deigned to give us only the most limited, unfair glimpse of
/this masterwork.

Why, Steve, I'm blushing.  I'll bet you're cute, too . . .




(me)
>I have seen mail-in campaigns over this kind of stuff before.  If there 
>were such a show right now, I am sure that some of the soc.motss folks would 
>be among the first to call the network and complain.

(dyer)
/Nope.

You speaking for the whole Cabal these days, Steve?



(me)
>How can some gays insist that such behavior is OK and not up for 
>examination, then turn around and complain when a TV show has a character 
>portraying that same behavior?

/(dyer)
/Strawman.  They don't.

Wrong man.  They do.  

I have seen it / read it / had to listen to it.




(me)
>No they are not.  Most do it because they like it, not as an 
>attention-getting mechanism, or a way to piss people off. 

/(dyer)
/Right.  But effeminate men aren't like that, are they? 

Many are.  



/(dyer)
/Do you ever get the idea that this guy's mind runs round and round in circles?


It's better than a mind that sits still, Steve.

It's also better than a mind that prefers wishful thinking to the 
sometimes cold and harsh reality of The Real World.