From: najem@milton.cs.uiuc.edu (Ziad Najem)
Subject: Re: Answering Mr Nabil
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 02:23:57 GMT

nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:

>>Are you suggesting that the Gulf Arabs were before the invasion of
>>Kuwait less committed to aiding Palestinians than other Arabs?  In
>>fact, they have generally represented the Palestinian cause to the
>>West better than any other Arabs.  I also have to point out that
>>supporting the oil embargo was a lot easier for countries like Syria
>>or Yemen to support which lost no sales revenue during the period of
>>the embargo.  What did supporting the oil embargo cost Arab countries
>>which have no oil?
>>

>I am talking about all the Arab leaders in general. They pretend to support 
>the Palestinians cause just to hold on to their thrones.

I've seen this argument quite often but do you really buy it ? Do you
think the arab masses would revolt against leaders if they didn't
support the Palestinians. While it might, I did say might, have been
true during the sixties I doubt it is true these days right now. Lets
take it case by case:

1. Egypt. Signed a peace treaty with Israel. Remember for Egyptians,
   Israel was also a "personal" enemy and not just someone who hurt
   their Palestinians brothers. Nevertheless, I don't think Egyptians
   are against their government because of the Palestinian Question.
   As a matter of fact, I don't think Israel plays any role in the
   Egyptian opposition other than a religious perspective or economical one. 

2. Syria. Historically, this is the capital of arab nationalist. Yet,
   the Palestinian card have always been played to the advantage of
   the leadership and not to calm down the masses. I would argue that
   the Syrian would be  willing to drop the Palestinian issue out of
   their agenda if it means an end to all the arms race that is
   exhausting their resources and giving the leadership an excuse for
   a tighter control.

3. As for the gulf countries, it was extremely rare (if any) that the
   leaders have used the Palestinian card to steer people away from
   some local matter. Also, Everybody say that Saudi Arabia is acting
   against the Palestinian cause and the arab nationalism but I don't
   see the Saudi people revolting due to this.

>>
>>In any case if the US is to engage in major social political
>>engineering, would it not make more sense for the US to rank as a
>>higher priority the eradication of the current Iraqi
>>social-political-cultural system which seems the basis for major
>>oppression, aggression and genocide?  De-baathification would be
>>analogous to de-nazification.
>>

>I agree. But they had a bigger chance in establishing democracy in 
>Kuwait after the Liberation.         


Not at all. You don't give democracy and doesn't get established by
external agents. The Kuwaiti people has to want democracy first before
they get it. If they feel it is secondary to them or if they're still
more attached to their tribal roots then this is their choice. Only if
the leadership is standing against the will of the people would it
make a difference if the external agent played a role or not. I think
the US was wise to decide not to perform a social surgery in the
region. Not because they needed the current leadership to do their
dirty work, any body would have done it, they're very popular these
days in that region and they deserve it (from a regional perspective,
think of it). 

The democratization of Kuwait issue was used by those who opposed the
gulf war. I have also see it being used by people who (may I dare)
supported the Iraqi occupation but never admitted it for different
reasons. The democratization of Kuwait was never an issue during the
crisis. The Kuwaiti people were smart enough to unite under their
current leadership and not be short sighted and try to hold to many
birds in one hand. It is their own internal affair and no one has the
right to tell them what to do or how they should run their life.
Internally, they might conclude that they have lost a chance but for
outsiders, it was never an issue and the gulf was should not be judged
on this dimension.


>>The Kuwaitis and other Gulf Arabs sought the assistence of the US and
>>aided the US in the liberation of Kuwait, Kuwaitis and Kuwaiti
>>property from Iraqi aggression.  What is your problem with this
>>behavior?  How would you have acted differently if you had been in
>>their situation.
>>

>I don't have any problem with this behaviour. My problem is way before 
>Saddam invaded Kuwait. When the Palestinian Arabs were treated like 
>foreigners in the Gulf States:

>1> No right for permanent residency. ( Persians are O.K>) to have citizenship.

>2> No right to buy a house.

>3> No right to have a business unless with a local partner.

>4> Children of Palestinians who were born in Kuwait have to leave
>   the country after the age of 18.

>5> Deny Palestinians from obtaining a visit visa while Europeans can
>   get it at the airport.

>and so on ....

You make it sound as if the palestinians were the only one who where
denied these rights. Remember, our region is not the USA. Nationalism
is still very active over their. Most countries don't allow foreigners
to own anything. And don't give citizenship even if you were the third
generation born there. So, while I wish the region was less sensitive
to these issues they aren't and I understand why. If you want to
discuss the whole issue, that is fine, but don't list these e

>>
>>Of course, you are more comfortable here.  Americanism is superior to
>>Arab-Islamic culture and for the good of all Middle Eastern peoples
>>and the world in general, Americanism must one day supplant
>>Arab-Islamic culture in the Middle East and North Africa.
>>

>Culture does not have to do anything with it. I love my culture. It is the
>greedy rulers of the Middle East who stick on their thrones forever by force
>who make our culture look bad.

>-- 
>Nabil Idriss                           |       FOR EVERY ACTION AN OPPOSITE  
>NCR - Midrange Products Division       |       AND EQUAL REACTION.
>      Columbia, South Carolina         |      
>email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |

 - Ziad
   najem@cs.uiuc.edu