From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 6 Nov 92 15:18:28 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: carroll@ori.cis.udel.edu (Mark C. Carroll)

In article <1992Nov5.220045.25273@udel.edu>, carroll@ori (Mark C. Carroll) writes:
>]I'm not trying to insult anybody, merely stating a fact.

>You _deliberately_ went out of your way to add something to your post
>in order to make it pointedly insulting to a large number of your
>fellow Jews on the net.

He deliberately went out of his way to give information that may be
relevant to the question someone raised.  You, on the contrary, have
deliberately gone out of your way to be insulted.

>			 There was _no_ reason to go out of your way

That's a complete lie.

>and point out your (unjustified) belief that Conservative conversion
>are invalid _unless_ you wanted to make an effort to insult and/or
>denigrate the Conservative readers on the net.

Tell you what.  If you want a moderated group where no one is allowed
to mention beliefs stricter than Conservatism, go for it.  Otherwise,
save the hysterics for your pet, not USENET.

>]Politics has nothing to do with it. My concern is strictly halachik
>]and I claim for support the Teshuvos (Responsa) of Reb Moshe
>]Feinstein z'tzl who in many of them stated that a conversion through
>]a Conservative Beis Din was not a valid conversion.

>Pointing a finger at someone else and saying "He said it first, and
>you know that he didn't mean it as an insult" is hardly an excuse.

He's not excusing anything.  He's pointing out that the charge of
"politics" is completely baseless and idiotic.

>Rabbi Feinstein was an excellent Rabbi.

That's an understatement.  Do you realize just how much of an under-
statement that is?  Perhaps you belong in comedy.  Try HITCHHIKER'S
GUIDE TO THE GALAXY, where Arthur's feelings about the Earth being
destroyed are on the order of "bad day", never could get "the hang
of Thursdays", and so on.  In high school I once began a history
paper on HENRY VIII with "Shakespeare wrote with a flair", and then
moved on to the history aspects.  I have friends who still make fun
of me for that one.

>					 But I don't think that he
>would have defended your insulting post.

Why not?  Did his teshuvos merely say "since the beis din was not kosher"
and let people figure out wink-wink-nudge-nudge why they weren't.  No,
he deliberately went out of his way to state the reason: Conservatives
don't count.

>					  Whether you believe that
>Conservative conversions are valid or not, to go out of your way to
>point out your belief *for no good reason* is deliberately insulting
>your fellow Jews.

Considering there *is* a good reason--it's highly relevant to many
people just what their status is--your complaints are nonsense.

There is, however, absolutely no reason to be insulted in the first
place.  If you're not Orthodox, what do you care what they believe
regarding Conservatives in the first place?

>		   And that, my friend, is something which is *not*
>defensible halachically.

Grow up.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish