From: alejanrd@victoria.cs.rose-hulman.edu (Raymond D. Alejandro)
Subject: Re: SRUN magicalness
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 16:21:06 GMT

In article <thornt_g.702535580@kultarr>, thornt_g@cs.uwa.oz.au (Sebastian Nobwit DeLaBler) writes:
|> I would like to say something in light of all the discussion about
|> magical/astral stuff in shadowrun.
|> 
|> Ahem.
|> 
|> The shadowrun magic system is SILLY.

His/Her opinion.  Stated very cleanly and briefly.

|> I HATE the way mages can learn any kind of spell that you could
|> possibly think of.
|> I HATE the way that magic can emulate basically any effect you 
|> could get from cyberware, and do it better.
|> I HATE the way most magic takes no time, gestures, 
|> ingredients, preperations, or ANYTHING AT ALL that makes using 
|> magic a hassle! (I know that there is ritual magic and summoning)
|> I HATE the way that magic is totally documented in a scientific
|> way so that a magic-user knows EXACTLY what a spell will do, and
|> it's PRECISE effects. 

Also his/her opinion.  But I would like to point out that when creating a new
spell (not just reverse engineering it) there is quite alot of work that goes in
to it.  A GM that just gives a high target number for a sorcery success test is
not being a very good GM.  To make a new spell that has its effects known,
requires a lot of tinkering with the unknown.  Thus testing and gueina (sp?) pigs
must be used.  Alot of roleplaying and hilarious material can be found when
mages try to engineer (or reverse engineer) a new spell.  

My point is that new spells take time, money and karma.  If the mage (or shaman)
has the time, money and karma, he should be able to do what he wants.  The same
goes for a technician making new cyberware but he doesn't need karma.  Just more
time and money (lots more money).  IMHO that is what makes magic great, is that
you can do anyhting and what makes really powerful mages, really powerful, they
CAN do anything. 

[Stuff deleted]
|> 
|> Magic should be MYSTERIOUS! Not entirely defined. There should be
|> some things about magic that you can NEVER know. 
|> It also should be a hassle! You shouldn't be able to summon
|> magical energies, form them into something uselful, channel/control
|> them, all in the same time it takes to throw a punch or fire a gun!
|> It should be DIFFICULT! Not so easy that anyone who wants to cast
|> a spell automatically does it!
|> There should be some sacrifice involved! Magic should take it's
|> toll! Not simply be at the beck and call of anyone who wants to use
|> it! 

This is his/her opinion again.  I am an engineering student and like to think
that EVERYTHING CAN be explained as following a basic set of universal rules. 
That doesn't mean we can do it now, or in the world of SHADOWRUN but it can
happen.  Obviouisly this makes religion a bit questionable from my point of view,
but that is another discussion entirely.

Again, my point is that I don't think magic should be mysterious.  And what
particularly brought me to shadowrun (aside from the fact that there are large
people carrying large guns) is that heremetic mages approach magic from a
scientific standpoint.  I like that.  But this is my opinion, and it just differs.


|> It should be LIMITED! Magic should not be able to do EVERYTHING!
|> It should not emulate the exact effects of science! It's MAGIC
|> afterall! Magic is something not possible in a scientific view!
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I don't see it that way.  I like heremetics that approach it scientific
standpoint.  I really liked how schools began teaching it (ie.  MIT is now MITM
and Texas A & M is now Texas A & M & M)

If you think that magic is mystical and can't be explained be a SHAMAN.  That's
what they beleive.  

Of course SR does not thoroughly explain magic either.  They don't know why it is
genetically linked.  They don't know everything, but they have come up with some
system or theory that approximately simulates what magic does.



|> 
|> I'm sorry, but I just had to say that. Of course, all is IMHO.
|> 
|> The problem is, I love shadowrun, but I hate the magic!
|> 
|> 
|> Comments, anyone?

See Above

|> 
|> 
|> My Email address: thornt_g@kultarr.cs.uwa.edu.au
|> 
|> 


Raymond Alejandro
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp