From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (dreas)
Subject: Re: New Relationships...
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 21:07:52 GMT

In article 5rz@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca, bgpierce@magellan.uwaterloo.ca (B.G. Pierce) writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.030143.25182@sol.UVic.CA> atovorni@engr.UVic.CA writes:
>>
>>Now you are being a bit too much of a zealous NiceGuy[TM].
>>I've said it before, but it appears that I have to say it again:
>>
>>STOP LOOKING!!!!
>>
>>Stop being so NauseatinglyNice[TM].
>>Expect nothing. 
>>Be genuine.
>>Be yourself.
>>Don't ask women out.
>>Masturbate frequently.
>....
>>
>>Remember: La Donna E Mobile!!!!
>>
>>dreas              Language is a virus from outer space.      -Laurie Anderson 
>
>  A while ago I was reading Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching.  Your statement
>sounds like so much Taoism to me.  Do nothing.  Expect nothing.  Take
>pride in nothing.  (Of course the bit about masturbating seems contrary
>to the stance of "need nothing" :)

I don't profess to belong to any particular world philosophy other than
my own. Why should I ask women out if they want to spend time with me
of their own free will? Asking women that you don't know out puts a big
stress on the process of getting to know each other. If she agrees to go
out with you, then she has her guard up because she thinks she knows why
you asked her out in the first place. I prefer just getting to know women
without the "threats" to our respective social personalities implied in the 
dating game.
  
>  Heterosexual males feel a *need*, or better yet a compulsion to be
>close to women.

Sure, but there are various ways to be close to women without asking them out.
I see it more as social interacion instead of a battle of wills. Not every woman
I meet goes to bed with me, but I still have just as much respect for the ones
that don't.

>  I'm single, but some good friends of mine are in pretty
>serious relationships right now, and joy/pleasure/gratification(tm)
>aside, their S.O.'s are ruining their lives.

Been there, done that. Been free for a long time. The idea is to develop
intimacy without threats and encompassing mutual respect. In almost every
one of my past relationships, the woman has tried to "own" me and then 
to change me. As soon as I realized that jealousy was in the relationship, 
I packed up my things and left.

>  So I guess I agree with
>you, but I don't see the alternative.

Who needs an alternative? This is the way (at least for me).

>  Social politics have an unusual tendency to arrange any situation so
>that you either can't be happy, or at least can't be happy without
>guilt (unless of course you are strong enough to do without society
>altogether).  It makes me tired the way anyone that's happy is subjected
>to external pressures that always tend to destroy that happiness (sort
>of like entropy of human relations?)  There are some *nice* people out
>there who support others and have a "more power to you" attitude; I
>think there aren't enough of them.  I want more *nice*(tm) people, not
>fewer.  Maybe they're more brave than me?

Perhaps. I find that looking out for number one is the only way to be true to 
yourself and others. Happiness without guilt is the objective. If you settle
for anything but the best, you're cheating yourself.

>    Looks like I've set myself up for a quick-fry-your-ass-flame-storm(tm)
>again!  Shit!   Well...maybe the news poster will eat this letter?!?

I'm not out to fry your ass or ram my ideas down your throat. You can agree 
or disagree with me if you wish. That is your right. The opinions that you
see above are my philosophies of being single in this day & age. They work
for me and form better friendships, IMVHO, of course.

dreas             Lovers come and lovers go.
                  Friends are hard to find.
                  Yes, I can count all mine upon one finger!    -John Cale
                  



Newsgroups: soc.singles,soc.women,soc.men,ba.singles,misc.legal