HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dkl@xcluud.sccsi.com (David Karl Leikam)
Subject: Re: anathema ideas
Organization: Greater Montrose UFO Appreciation Society & Data Haven
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:15:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.184708.347@u.washington.edu> zola@u.washington.edu writes:
>
>Hello again-
> [cut/snip/paste]

>
>Question two- you were all very patient with my yeast question- and answered
>me in detail, and so I will continue my novice questions - what happens when
>you want to make a non-sourdough bread?  how do you leaven it?  Like maybe
>a non-sourdough pizza crust. (yes I * know * this is r.f.c., and I realize
>the possibility of you folks NOT making sourdough is slim. :)

  Perhaps I don't quite follow your train of thought. Umm, how do you
leaven it now?  Baker's yeast, of course. (If you use some other, popular-
in-olden-times expedients, I really don't want to know about it. Please.)

Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: vln@icpsr.umich.edu (Victoria Neff)
Subject: Re: baking on clay tiles discovery
Keywords: clay, baking
Organization: Inter-University Consortium for Political and Social Research
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:27:43 GMT

In article <65759@hydra.gatech.EDU> roy@prism.gatech.EDU (Roy Mongiovi) writes:
>
>Since the tiles weren't made for cooking, might you not want to worry
>about unwanted minerals (like lead) leaching out of the tile and into
>the bread?

The problem with lead in ceramics is nearly always in the glaze.  Maybe
even *always* in the glaze.  Even then, problematic levels tend to occur
in acidic, liquid foods (o.j., for example) that have extended contact
with the lead glaze.  

This is not to suggest that lead is never a concern (I wouldn't eat or drink
out of low-fired ceramics, especially ones made in other countries), but I
personally would not worry about lead leaching into bread baked on quarry
tiles.

(By the way, high-fired ceramics -- stoneware, porcelain -- are safe.  They
are fired hot enough to volatilize any lead.  Lead may be applied in decoration
AFTER the hot fire [think about those gold bands around fancy plates -- that
was applied AFTER the hot fire], but any fire hot enough to vitrify a
stoneware or porcelain clay will burn out any lead that may have been present.)

From: dondd@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Don Dillon)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:56:22 GMT
Subject: Sourdough on a Diet
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (NMD MTA MWTD)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough

This is actually intented for David Adams, but I think others may be
interested so I'll post instead of email.


David, in a posting in rec.food.cooking(??) you mentioned during a
discussion about cooking potatoes that some people feed their sourdough
cultures boiled potatoes.  Can you elaborate on this a little bit, cause I
thought all the culture really wanted was some water and white flour to
chew on occasionally.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Don { Go Niners } Dillon

INTERNET : dondd@sr.hp.com
TELNET   : 577-3690
PHONE    : 707-577-3690

Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: tinsethg@ucs.orst.edu (Glenn Tinseth)
Subject: FAQ's
Organization: University Computing Services - OSU
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:04:30 GMT

I've had access to this group for about two weeks and haven't seen the
FAQ's yet. I also looked in the FAQ archive machine at MIT and they weren't
there. The group news.answers is also not the place so far. This exhausts my 
knowledge of where to look. Help anyone?

Thanks,

Glenn
-- 
 Glenn Tinseth                                 Chemistry Department
 tinsethg@ucs.orst.edu                      Oregon State University
     Brewing all the beer I drink, drinking all the beer I brew.
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dvw@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (diane.v.wilkerson)
Subject: Something besides wheat and rye...
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 21:06:42 GMT

(I posted this to the mailing list also...)

Hello

After lurking for awhile I now need help with a bit of a dilemna.  After 
getting a couple of starters going slooowly from whole wheat, and finding
"Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book" looking lonesome in Waldenbooks, I now have
been taken off of wheat (not just gluten, wheat) due to suspected allergies.  
Most (if not all) of the recipies in LKBB have some kind of wheat in them.
Does anyone have recipies or knowledge of a good book for making bread
WITHOUT wheat?  Preferably sourdough, but at this point any bread will do.

Alternately, has anyone substituted another grain (spelt, amaranth, buckwheat,
etc.) for wheat in any of the "Laurel's" recipies?  (Something besides
rye, I like rye, but can't fathom eating it forever and ever.)  What was the
result?

Thanks.

-- 
Diane Wilkerson    | 
AT&T Bell Labs     | Honk if you hate all of the presidential candidates...
..!att!cbnewsh!dvw | 
(908) 615-2704     | 
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: monaghan@carson.u.washington.edu (Tracy Monaghan)
Subject: Re: Wondering about milk...
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 22:31:02 GMT

In article <BsznKv.E8s@fc.sde.hp.com> Gary Fritz <fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com> writes:
>dadams@cray.com (David Adams) writes:
>
>I doubt that.  The AB's are specifically designed to kill bugs like the
>lactobacilli.  Maybe they aren't specifically targeted at lactobacilli,
>and maybe they aren't as effective on lactobacilli as on their intended
>victims, but I suspect they are still quite effective on lactobacilli.
>
>Gary

Adding my $.02 worth, there definitely exists in most (all) milk lactobacilli,
since there exist in the public people sensitive to lacto reactions from
milk, and the products on the market (such as Lact-aid, etc) and
Acidopholus (sp?) Milk.

They wouldn't sell products that aren't REALLY needed, would they?

Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dixon@spot.Colorado.EDU (Life is real?)
Subject: Re: need "old starter" faq
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:25:35 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.150041.1@acad3.alaska.edu> fnsjc@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
>Help!  I first signed on to this group yesterday and saw a great 
>description of how to revive old starter, but before I could get to a 
>printer to print it (it was quite long) it was bumped off the 
>directory.  Can anyone help?  Thanks
> 

1a) If the starter is not dark colored or moldy, stir well and remove 1
  tablespoon of starter...
1b) If the starter is dark colored or moldy, scrape off any mold and/or
  remove a tablespoon of the cleanest-looking part of the starter...

2) ...Place the tablespoon of starter in a glass (etc) bowl along with 1 cup
  of warm (75-85 deg) water and 1 1/2 cups white all-purpose flour.  Mix
  well making sure you aerate the batter as much as you can while mixing.

3) Cover with plastic wrap, poke a couple of holes in the plastic, and proof
  in a warm place for 24 hours at 75 degrees (72-77 degrees).

4) At the end of exactly 24 hours, check the starter batter to see if it's
  healthy, i.e. frothy and full of bubbles above and below the surface (hence
  the reason for a see-through glass bowl).  If it's not really healthy,
  remove 1 tablespoon of this starter, discard the rest, and repeat the
  process beginning at step 2 above.  For very old and very nearly dead
  starter, this process may need to be repeated quite a few time, i.e 4 to
  7 times or so.

Hope that helps...that's basically what I put in the starter FAQ.

Brian D.


Xref: sparky rec.food.sourdough:200 bionet.plants:219
From: uc-chan@mcl.ucsb.edu (Christina Callihan)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough,bionet.plants
Subject: Re: Drying sourdough culture
Date: 16 Aug 92 17:00:53 GMT
Followup-To: rec.food.sourdough

In <1992Aug13.213238.23422@u.washington.edu> monaghan@carson.u.washington.edu (Tracy Monaghan) writes:


>David and I have had this running dialog concerning yeast and lactobacilli
>in sourdough culture, particularly what happens during the drying process.

>I'm crossposting to bionet.plants (OK they're not really plants but give me
>a break, they're definitely not animals, are they?) in the hopes some
>biology types could settle this or at least lessen the cinfusion some.


Well, you happen to have a "biology type" right here on the group.  :)
I'm no microbiologist, mind, but........


[sneep]  


>To which, I wrote :

>I'm not a biologist nor an experienced sourdough, but in it's dried form,
>the 'critters' would be dormant, and if I'm not mistaken, in a more
>resistant form.


>In response to, David wrote:

>There has been some speculation that since lactobacilli does not
>truly sporulate it may have a more difficult time surviveing
>the drying.  There has never been a clear answer for the group.

Lactobacilli do not sporulate.  What they do is form something called a
capsule, a protective coating around themselves.  They do this whenever
their environment is no longer optimum for survival and growth: i.e.,
when things start getting dry.  Whether or not capsules protect against
a near-total dryout would probably depend on the kind of bacteria in
question. 

Hope that helps.  :)


____________________________________________________________________________
If You Know What |     Christina M. Callihan     |  Doing STRANGE THINGS
 You're Doing,   |  AKA C-chan, Bwee, Chrystal-  |  in the name of Art,
   It's Not      |   Elf & Who Knows What Else   |  and STRANGER THINGS
   Research!     |       (I sure don't)          |    in the name of
 => => => => =>  |     uc-chan@mcl.ucsb.edu      |       CHOCOLATE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
	When life gets weird, the weird get a life.     :)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

(The opinions in this post are not endorsed by the University of California
at Santa Barbara....THANK GOODNESS!!!!!!!!!  ;^}  )
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: rye@medici.trl.OZ.AU (Rye Senjen)
Subject: made my own starter yeah ! 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 00:31:27 GMT

Hey Hey ! I made my own starter, no trouble at all.
I mixed folur and water and let it sit around, the bubbles
started appearing after 4 days and now it seems quite
vigerous.

In the australian book on sourdoughing it says taht the 
new starter needs at least 6 weeks till it's mature
enough to raise bread, .... Any opinions on that (?),

I guess in the meantime i will just feed the little mosnster ?

RYE

r.senjen@trl.oz.au
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re:  Little Zip-Loc Bags ?
Date: 13 Aug 92 20:00:40 GMT
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.

The following is pirated from r.f.c:


 wmartin@STL-06SIMA.ARMY.MIL (Will Martin) writes:
Yet another source; catalog just arrived in today's mail:

Associated Bag Company
400 West Boden St.
Milwaukee, WI 53207-7120

800-926-6100 (can't find a non-800 number on the order form or in the
              catalog; apologies to non-US readers)

Regards, Will

___________________________end of quote_________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Re: made my own starter yeah !
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:14:49 CDT

 rye@medici.trl.OZ.AU (Rye Senjen) writes:

|
|In the australian book on sourdoughing it says taht the 
|new starter needs at least 6 weeks till it's mature
|enough to raise bread, .... Any opinions on that (?),


Two opinions:

1)  Bohunk!

2)  A mature culture is 100 years old.  ;^)


---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       member--Minnesotans for Global Warming.

Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dixon@spot.Colorado.EDU (Life is real?)
Subject: Re: getting starter in Australia ?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:28:06 GMT


In article <1992Aug13.010124.19480@trl.oz.au>, rye@medici.trl.OZ.AU (Rye Senjen) writes:

>>
>> [stuff about needing cultures in Australia deleted]
>>

> I'm sure you can order cultures from Sourdoughs International
> even in Australia.
> 
> I am not sure that you could not try sending a SASE to any of
> those in the group who have volunteered to share.  (Does anyone
> know if there are regulations against such a thing?)
>
> --David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
> 

Well, we send stuff overseas all the time since my wife is from India and
has relatives all over the place (Wales, Holland, India).  I don't know
about regulations, but I do know that envelopes are not questioned at
all, i.e. you just put $0.50 worth of stamps on it and send away.  It
might be a good idea to mark the envelope, "contains no valuable contents"
or some such thing, and label the sourdough starter as "Dried Sourdough
Starter".  Usually this type of stuff (the labeling) is only a good idea
when sending stuff to Mexico or 3rd world countries since american mail
is quite often opened up in search of money or checks ("rich americans"
and all that).  Mail from the US to Australia should present no more
problems than mail which stays within the US.  If you send the starter in
any kind of a box, the post office will make you fill out a little green
form which merely states the contents of the box.  Some types of shipments,
i.e. non-gifts, may be taxed and consequently need a little extra postage.

Brian D.


Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: M23231@mwvm.mitre.org
Subject: REQUEST: Schlotzsky's Buns
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:58:13 GMT

 
Does anyone out there know how to make a close facsimile (not a fax :-))
to Schlotzsky's buns? If you haven't ever had a Schlotzsky's sandwich
be sure to get one first time you see one of their franchise shops. Their
secret is their bread, which is made in the shop. It seems to be a sourdough
bread of some kind, but unlike anything else I ever ate. Most others agree.
Sure would like the recipe!
 
Thanks,
From: shrum@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Rick Shrum)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: "Starter"
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:54:18 GMT
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr, Calif.

Hello everyone,

I am just a "starter" (do you get that one?) on this newsgroup, so I was
just wondering if someone could send me some BASIC sourdough recipees.Assume
I know nothing (won't stretch your imagination!). Do I have to have 100
year-old starter? Where would I get any any way; I have some old stuff
in *my* refrigerator, but 100 years? C'mon! 
So fill my mailbox. Mail! MAil! Mail!


                            R ****
                             I
                              C
                          **** K
From: fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz (tmp))
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: making yogurt
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:00:42 GMT
Reply-To: Gary Fritz <fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com>
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1scd1 PL4

steveve@ecs.comm.mot.com (Steve Veeneman) writes:
: Before dipping my finger into the heating milk I often place my finger 
: in my armpit to reference my body temperature.

Wow!  I wonder what kind of "new" organisms you introduce into your yoghurt
this way??  :-)

Gary
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: zatar@dadstoy.uucp (Terry Stockdale)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: baking on clay tiles discovery
Keywords: clay, baking
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 06:58:28 CDT
Organization: Lots of little files on drive D:

grady@fraser.sfu.ca (A. Brian Grady) writes:

> The quarry tiles were from a large tile store that sells tiles for flooring.
> They knew immediately what quarry tiles were, which was good, since
> I had only read about them.  They are 5 1/2" square and about 3/8"
> thick (14 cm square by 7mm thick).  9 of them line my oven rack completely;
> this prevents air from circulating, so I use 6.  In a slightly larger
> oven, 9 would be ok.  The tiles have little nubs on the bottom so that
> they don't slide around on the rack and are very smooth on top.

They are also wonderful when baking pizza, because they directly impart the
heat to the bottom of the pizza sheet.  I tried putting the pizza directly on
a pizza stone once -- what a mess.  Now I use a big flat cookie sheet with
my quarry tiles.

------------
UUCP: terry@dadstoy.uucp    INTERNET: cls!dadstoy!terry@uunet.uu.net
                                  or: dadstoy!terry@xcluud.sccsi.com
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: Wondering about milk...
Date: 15 Aug 92 01:13:15 GMT
	<1992Aug14.223102.7058@u.washington.edu>
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.

On 14 Aug 92 22:31:02 GMT, monaghan@carson.u.washington.edu (Tracy Monaghan) said:

TM> Adding my $.02 worth, there definitely exists in most (all) milk lactobacilli,
TM> since there exist in the public people sensitive to lacto reactions from
TM> milk, and the products on the market (such as Lact-aid, etc) and
TM> Acidopholus (sp?) Milk.

What people are sensitive to is _lactose_ or milk sugar, not
lactobacilli.  These people have an insufficiency of lactase, the
enzyme that splits lactose into more easily digestible sugars.
Lact-aid is lactase and Acidopholus (I don't know how to spell it
either, although this is wrong) milk has had the lactose split by the
bacteria (that's why it tastes so sweet).

TM> They wouldn't sell products that aren't REALLY needed, would they?

They are really needed, just not for lactobacilli.

You were on the right track--"lact" means "milk".  Lactose is milk
sugar and lactobacilli are found in milk products.

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous
--
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz (tmp))
Subject: Re: Bread machines
Reply-To: Gary Fritz <fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com>
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1scd1 PL4
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:49:29 GMT

This confirms a suspicion of mine.  We have the Welbilt R2D2 model, and
I've always been fairly disappointed with the quality of the bread.
At first I thought maybe it was the recipes, or something, but I've tasted
bread made with the same recipes in other machines (Hitachi, Zojirushi, etc.)
and it was MUCH better.

Apparently the Welbilt (in addition to the problems I've had with mine of
burning the crust, gooey/doughy centers, etc.) just don't make good bread.
Bummer.

Gary
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough,rec.food.cooking
From: zola@hardy.u.washington.edu (Queen of the Netherlands)
Subject: maggie's request for black bread (RECIPE)
Reply-To: zola@u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 00:33:59 GMT



Well, since David said that the ftp file did not have coffee
in it ( and I didn't look at it before I posted that note about
the archives)  here is another recipe from _Bon Appetit_ October 1978.

Have fun baking- Rebecca

cut here :)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
**Russian Black Bread**

Try this bread warm from the oven, thickly buttered and 
topped with thin slices of sweet red onion.

Makes 2 1-pound loaves
--
4 cups rye flour
2 cups whole bran cereal
2 envelopes dry yeast
2 tablespoons caraway seeds, crushed
2 teaspoons instant coffee
2 teaspoons salt
1 teaspoon sugar
1/2 teaspoon fennel seeds, crushed

2 1/2 cups water
1/4 cup (1/2 stick) butter
1/4 cup white vinegar
1/4 cup dark molasses
1 ounce (1 square) unsweetened chocolate
2 1/2 to 3 cups unbleached all purpose flour

1/2 cup water
1 teaspoon cornstarch
--

Lightly grease large bowl and 2 8-inch layer cake pans.  Set aside.

Combine first 8 ingredients in mixing bowl. Combine 2 1/2 cups water,
butter, vinegar, molasses, and chocolate in 2-quart saucepan.  Place
over medium heat and cook, stirring frequently, until chocolate is 
almost melted but mixture is still lukewarm.  Turn into mixing bowl
and begin beating.  Gradually add flour, 1/2 cup at a time, to make
a soft dough, and beat about 3 minutes.  

Turn dough onto lightly floured board.  Cover with bowl and allow dough
to rest 10 to 15 minutes.  Knead dough until smooth and elastic, about
10 to 15 minutes, adding additional flour as needed.  Place in greased
bowl, turning to coat entire surface.  Cover with plastic wrap and hot,
damp towel and leave in warm place until doubled in volume.

Punch dough down and turn onto lightly floured board.  Shape into two
balls and place in prepared pans.  Cover with plastic wrap and leave 
in warm place until doubled.

Preheat oven to 350 degrees F.  Bake breads 40 minutes.  Combine water
and cornstarch in saucepan and bring to boil over high heat; boil one
minute (1 minute).  Brush lightly over bread and return bread to oven
for about 5 minutes, or until tops are glazed and loaves sound hollow
when tapped.  Remove from pans and allow to cool on racks.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: joi@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (JMM)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: Wondering about milk...
Date: 20 Aug 92 03:58:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T, Denver, CO

In article <1992Aug13.150138.1365@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> steveve@ecs.comm.mot.com (Steve Veeneman) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.045122.15468@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au> cmurray@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au (Christopher John Murray) writes:
>>
>>     And as to the milk question.. I was told that you cannot use pasteurised
>>milk for your starter, as it won't contain the bacteria you are supposed to
>>be culturing.  I used normal shop milk (homogenised and pasteurised) and it
>>seemed to work okay.

If you scald the milk and let it cool to lukewarm, the culture will "take".
I've also used powdered milk (non-instant) with good success.

	J. Metcalf
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: M23231@mwvm.mitre.org
Subject: Re: Wood's book, etc.
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:05:40 GMT

In article <6671@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM>
garyp@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Gary R Pimm) writes:
 
>
>In article <16849B599.M23231@mwvm.mitre.org> M23231@mwvm.mitre.org writes:
>>In article <1992Aug17.175357.13756@acd4.acd.com>
>>cat@iedv7.acd.com ( Chris Teegarden (ICCT)) writes:
>
>Reading this group has had a effect on me already. This afternoon before
>coming to work I mixed up some flour and warm water to see if I could
>"catch" some of the right beasties to make sourdough.
>
>Thanks
>
>gary
>garyp@tekig5.pen.tek.com
***************
Me, too!!! My wife stayed up till 1:00 AM to see if anything was brewing!
 
Thanks,