From: skip@cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why A3000 Owners Are Mad
Date: 11 Oct 92 17:51:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Oct11.175153.6733
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science

In article <jayson.03v9@tbag.tscs.com> jayson@tbag.tscs.com (Jayson Phillips) writes:
>on 14Sep92 13:07:53 MDT slbfn@cc.usu.edu writes:
> 
>>After  a  great  deal of thought, I've decided that the reason A3000 owners
>>(like  myself) are pissed about not compat.  AGA is that we spend the extra
>>damages  on  the  A3000  so our machine's could be upgraded.  Everything is
>>32bit except the custom chip sockets.
> 
>I was under the same impression.  The A3000 was originally announced as the
>beginning  of  a whole new line or at least a "new erra in Amiga computing"
>so it seemed pretty safe to assume that it would be upgradable to the level
>of the next machine in the "new erra" line.

It was the beginning of a new line.  The A3000UX machines, the A3000T, and
the A3000T/040 are all part of the A3000 line.  Not exactly the broadest
line, but given the various CPU, memory, and hard disk configurations it is
certainly not just a single machine.  And you know what they say when you
assume anything...

>>Now, after spending mucho mulanda, we find our machines to be tossed.  Most
> 
>Our A3000's aren't actually being tossed, but to be told that they can't be
>upgraded to the level of a new machine so similar (Zorro III etc) is a real
>kick  in  the  pants.  Especially after going thru this with my A1000.  For
>the  first  time  (since  I  bought  an  Amiga  Jan/86)  I've  developed an
>"attitude" towards CBM regarding their Amiga technology upgrades.

Are they really that similar?  I've got an A3000 and the A4000 seems to be 
quite a different beast.  The CPU on a card instead of on the motherboard,
SIMMs instead of the awful ZIPs, 24bit Video Slot, AGA, less cramped case,
5.25" bay on the front, IDE instead of SCSI (not the best idea, but it makes
sense if/when the lower-end models show up), 040 instead of 030/882, keylock
on the front, 3.0 vs 2.0 OS, etc. are certainly different.

The A3000 is a damn fine machine and takes the A1000 architecture farther
than anyone might have dreamed.  The A4000 borrows some of the best parts
of the A3000, but it is more a revolution instead of an evolution.  

>>of  us  can appreciate the "tech goes on" philosiphy, but those of us still
> 
>Of  course  technology  moves  on.  But the transition could certainly be a
>little  smoother.   Nothing  like pissing off another segment of your loyal
>user  base.   And  it wouldn't take a genius to tell any one to expect this
>attitude with that (A4000) kind of an announcement.

No one ever promised you that your A3000 would be upgradeable any more than
they promised the A1000, A2000, and A500 owners that their machines would
be.  C= did offer some really good deals to previous owners through the 
PowerUp programs and may do so again for the A4000.  It is certainly not a
perfect situation, but then again nothing really is.

>>in  Gold  Service  (and have many months to go before warranty is depleted)
>>are  quite upset about the loss of money.  The A4000 will push A3000 prices
>>down quite a bit.
> 
>I  expected the A3000 prices to fall.  Heck, a month after I paid $1495 for
>my A1000 (CPU) my friends were buying them for $1095.

And boy did they fall!  I'm going to be selling my A3000 for about half as
much as I was originally, but what the hell.  It has served me well for the
last year and a half and I've certainly received more than my money's worth
from it.

>>Now, the big pain is asking myself "Why didn't I get a 2500?" Much cheaper,
>>and I can start saving up for the 4000.
> 
>I do like the color capability of the AGA but my next computer will have to
>have  SCSI and higher resolution then the (current) A4000.  I'd like 16-bit
>audio too though I can live with out it as the current Amiga audio is still
>pretty good for lots of things.

So get a NeXTStation Color.

>>But at the decision time, all was thinking, "I'll be able to upgrade.  I've
>>got Zorro III and complete 32 bit pathways."
> 
>And  a  CPU slot for which CBM has failed to provide anything.  How about a
>68040/AGA  card  for  about $1000.  Now that would sell A3000's faster than
>that (nearly useless if you're an adult) CDTV give away.

Considering that the 040 boards have only just dropped below $1000, I don't
see how that is possible.  If they did release such a board, where in the
world would you put the video ports?  Ever opened up an A3000?  Short of
cutting up the case, I don't see how such a board could work.

>>I feel.....  used.
> 
>You  were  used  and so was everyone else who bought an A3000.  Or an A1000
>for  that matter.  The A3000 and A4000 are both 32-bit machines.  Making an

Maybe I'm just a masochist, but I don't feel used at all.  I bought an A1000
in 1986 and an A3000 in 1991 and will be buying an A4000 within the next 
month.

>upgrade  for  the  A3000 should (obviously) have been a design goal for the
>next  graphic chip set.  I wouldn't necassarily expect the A3000 to upgrade
>to  the next chip set after AGA but one should expect to be able to upgrade
>to  at least one level higher with a machine full of slots.  Apparently CBM

Why should one expect anything at all?  At the time the A3000 was being 
designed, no one really new what the AA/AGA chipset would be like.  Should
Dave have just guessed and put in a couple of sockets with traces coming out
of them in the hopes that the new chips would fit?  

>expects  it's  loyal  hi-end  user  base  to  run right out and buy the new
>machine.   It doesn't look like this is gonna happen.  (Not with me anyway)

C= is out to make money like any other company, and an A4000 would certainly
net them more money than some sort of AGA hack that maybe a few A3000 owners
would take advantage of.  As for anything happening, only time will tell.  I
will be buying one and will be happy as the proverbial clam with an 040, AGA,
3.0, etc.  

I hate to sound like a jerk, but C= would be better of with a user base with
a few less whiners.  Maybe the A4000 users will be different.

>But time will tell.  I still can't figure it.  If CBM made an AGA board for
>A3000's  there  would  be thousands of "AGA based systems" in the field for
>supporting AGA software developement in a real short time.

And they probably would if they could.  If Dave Haynie and the other engineers
at C= say that it would be a difficult hack at best, don't you think that it
probably is?  

> Jay Phillips * Tampa FL
> Amiga 3000 25Mhz/105HD/10MB
> USENET: tbag!jayson@tscs.com
>
>--- Via UCI v1.02 (C-Net Amiga)

Skip Sauls
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu