HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky)
Subject: Re: not traveling with a teen
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 05:11:27 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.175813.4999@odin.corp.sgi.com>, hawkes@hillrun.corp.sgi.com (John Hawkes) writes:

|> I recommend Irma Bombeck's book on vacations, titled something like
|> It's_Time_To_Come_Home_When_You_Start_To_Look_Like_Your_Passport_Picture.
|> She has some insightful thoughts on travelling with her teenagers, often
|> against their will and often with conflicts.  Her basic conclusion is
|> "They'll appreciate it later."

I would recomend that any parent who uses only the "They'll appreciate it
later" philosophy (clearly all share it, but most supplement it with real
opinions. In hindsight trips are often what lingers in the memory, but
a good time is generally better than a good memory for a parent that is
primarilly concerned with giving his/her child a good life) remember
Solinsky's first axiom:

     "For all possible unions subsets of the set of all family vactions
     and subsets of the set of all unhappy children, there exists a method
     by which the said unhappy children can ruin the said vacation for any
     and all persons accompanying the said children"

Jason W. Solinsky
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: hawkes@hillrun.corp.sgi.com (John Hawkes)
Subject: Re: not traveling with a teen
Organization: Silicon Graphics
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:58:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.144638.1@vax.sonoma.edu>, abel@vax.sonoma.edu (dan
abel) writes:
|> My wife and I were discussing vacation plans last weekend.  She was 
|> lamenting that our family life seemed abnormal since I was so 
|> unwilling to have a family vacation with our teen.  I countered that 
|> I thought that many families with young children had family 
|> vacations, and that couples had family vacations once the children 
|> were gone, but that many families stopped vacationing together when 
|> the children became teens.  Reading some previous posts has confirmed 
|> my suspicion.

I recommend Irma Bombeck's book on vacations, titled something like
It's_Time_To_Come_Home_When_You_Start_To_Look_Like_Your_Passport_Picture.
She has some insightful thoughts on travelling with her teenagers, often
against their will and often with conflicts.  Her basic conclusion is
"They'll appreciate it later."
-- 

John Hawkes		hawkes@sgi.com
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix)
Subject: Re: Need your opinion on Careers for teens
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 21:13:07 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Aug19.183552.27337@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca> marcy@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca (Marcy Thompson) writes:
>In a recent alt.parents-teens article Brian Harvey wrote:
>
>>Joan Balser writes:
>>
>>>My daughter is starting high school this year.  I was wondering if anyone on
>>>the net knows who I can contact to get information on all the 
>>>careers available for future jobs.  I know she is young (14) but I would like
>>>to expose her everything that is available for her so she will have a rough
>>>idea what she would like to take in University.
>>
>>Ease up!
>>
>> [lots of excellent advice deleted]
>
>
>In sum, encourage your daughter to take a wide variety of courses in
>order to find out what she really likes. Recognize that she is likely to
>change her mind often between 14 and 30 (and maybe after that). Encourage
>her also to keep up with math courses and with courses which require her
>to write. 
>
Hi folks,

Just an observation...

I am a corporate recruiter and parent of teen. The thing that I notice
about recruiting is a simple common denominator, everyone everywhere
is looking for an employee with good common sense.

 I have recruited for all
functional groups in a company, MIS, HR, Manufacturing, Marketing,
Sales and Engineering. Every department in a company has a unique
challenge to find people with common sense!

It sounds weird, but *VERY FEW* people seem to have basic sound
communication skills, good problem-solving techniques, good
interpersonal skills and a lot of basic common sense.

Help your child learn techniques for problem solving, help your child
learn to communicate well with others, teach your child how to fix
what they break, how to heal what they hurt, how to be kind and
constructive. No matter what discipline a person chooses, this kind of
person is always the kind that is hired first!!

Give a child the chance to choose to do WHAT THEY LOVE and they will
succeed in that field. Give them enough exposure to the world to see a
broad spectrum of career possibilities and encourage them to pursue
their own interests. 

The highest paid engineers ( I work in engineering now) are the ones
who LOVE what they do. They would do it no matter what they were paid
for doing their jobs! I really believe that it is a person's
enthusiasm for what they do that determines their success. There is
nothing like passion to make a dedicated employee.

ANy child who has sound life skills and is encouraged to find
interests that fascinate them will succeed, and more important will
find joy in their lives.


rf

Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: grace@moby.cs.ucla.edu (Grace Chen-Ellis)
Subject: Re: Careers & teens
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 21:07:46 GMT

In article <20AUG92.08491459@meena.cc.uregina.ca> isilver@meena.cc.uregina.ca writes:
>      The importance of positive self-esteem and good problem-
>solving skills cannot be overemphasised. Remember that it is
>normal to change careers 2 or 3 times, so a sound, basic educat-
>ion is essential. If a child can read, write and count with some
>degree of expertise after graduating high school, she should be
>able to handle almost anything.

>      While I'm rambling away, here, I want to point out somethin
>g that drives me nuts. My mother-in-law persists in sending us
>these helpful articles & brochures about how parents should help
>their kids with their school-work. While it is true that younger
>kids may need encouragement & supervision, older kids should be
>learning to take control of their own lives. Nagging is good &
>important (i.e., a generalized "Have you done your homework yet?
>repeated ad infinitum is likely as much help as most kids need).
>Kids need to be independent, & that includes failing on their
>own merits.

Sometime within the last 2 weeks, the Los Angeles Times published
a little article on this syndrome of how children with above
average intelligence, from well-educated, loving families were
doing below-average work. They claim that within this group,
1 out of 5 children do below-average work and the worst thing
that parents/teachers can do is send notes home to the parents
to sit down with the kids and help with the homework. (which
this article claims is THE most common solution practiced to
this problem).

The claim is that the kids do the homework FOR the parents and
feel, and to some extent, that they can not fend for themselves.
The article also claim that the kid suffers from some degree of
low self-esteem, which is aggravated by having to be 'helped' with
the homework.

The conclusion drawn is for unconditional love and support (not
tied to performace in academics, sports....) and to let the
kid fail and learn (after all, these are kids who have been
determined to have above-average intelligence) and learn to
self-motivate.  This, of course, precludes the situation where
the child ASKS for help with the homework.

I was surprised by the article, but it made alot of sense to me.

grace chen-ellis
From: rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix)
Subject: Traveling with others
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 20:06:08 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

My personal experience is that traveling with teens is no more
difficult than traveling with adult friends. I have had many problems
traveling with others. I believe that having one's routine
interrupted, being in unknown territory and having less control over
one's circumstances makes *most*people cranky, uncertain and insecure.
Traveling can be quite stressful for many people.

The best way I have found to prevent problems is to give a travel-mate
as much opportunity as possible to participate in planning the
vacation. I also think it is important to discuss the itinerary at
length in advance of departure.

If you are not in agreement with a traveling companion prior to
departing on a trip, IT ALWAYS GETS WORSE when you are in the midst of
the trip. If you cannot agree on the plans, find another traveling
companion or go alone. It will save a lot of hurt feelings and bad
experiences!

rf
From: eek@ocarina.mitre.org (Ericka Kammerer)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: not traveling with a teen
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:53:01 GMT
Reply-To: eek@csmil.umich.edu
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, Va


 hawkes@hillrun.corp.sgi.com (John Hawkes) writes:
|>  abel@vax.sonoma.edu (dan
|> abel) writes:
|> |> My wife and I were discussing vacation plans last weekend.  She was 
|> |> lamenting that our family life seemed abnormal since I was so 
|> |> unwilling to have a family vacation with our teen.  I countered that 
|> |> I thought that many families with young children had family 
|> |> vacations, and that couples had family vacations once the children 
|> |> were gone, but that many families stopped vacationing together when 
|> |> the children became teens.  Reading some previous posts has confirmed 
|> |> my suspicion.
|> 
|> I recommend Irma Bombeck's book on vacations, titled something like
|> It's_Time_To_Come_Home_When_You_Start_To_Look_Like_Your_Passport_Picture.

	Well, I haven't been the adult travelling with teenagers, but
once upon a time I was a teenager travelling with my parents.  We
didn't have a lot of money, so we didn't take many vacations, and
when we did, we drove, but I remember one summer we drove all the
way to California (from the east coast) and back with nary a problem.
(Other trips also went by with little problem, but 3 1/2 18-hour days
in the car each way and a couple of weeks of sight-seeing & such
seemed particularly significant.)  A few things may have contributed
to the sucesses:

1)  *Some* compromise and negotiation on what to do (though not a
    whole lot).

2)  Enough well-publicized reserve cash to buy a one-way plane
    ticket home to the grandparents for ill-behaved children.

	On the other hand, we *never* encountered the sorts of
problems some of you all seem to experience, so maybe much of
it was good luck and matching temperments & interests all the
way around.  My parents were also quite young (ummm...lemme see...
mid-thirties when I was a teen), so maybe our interests didn't
differ quite as much as in some other families.  At any rate, 
there are at least some happy teen-cum-parents family vacation
stories out there (not that anyone was denying the possibility).

Ericka
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: 6042230@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: harassment at school
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 13:39:32 GMT

Well, I posted at the end of my daughter's school year about the things that
were happening to her at school. Here is a brief summery: My daughter was in
a fight at school with another girl. She was suspended, which I agree with,
but the school mad it sound like it was a racial incident being that the other
girl is blond with a fair complexionand my daughter is dark haired, dark eyed
and has an olive complexion the school thought my daughter was hispanic. The
asst. principal kept referring to my daughters color of clothing as a sign of
her being gang related because she wears a red tee-shirt or sweatshirt to
school occationally. Well, yerterday it started again. In my daughter's
english class there are flags posted on the wall made by other students. These
flags have green and white stripes, simsilar to the flag of Mexico. When my
daughter and her friend Jamie made a flag and wrote their friends name in it
they were sent to the office because the teacher thought it was gang related.
My daughter said some of the other flags on the wall had the numbers "4" and
"3" on them which she tells me is a gang symbol. The asst. principal told my
daughter she cannot wear anything red to school anymore. The staff at her
school has asked her over and over again if she is gang related and she has
continually told them she is not. I have even told them she is not. She is a
good kid and I have no problems with her at home (she is fifteen). She doen't
smoke, drink, do drugs, or stay out late. I always know where she is and who
she is with. For the age of fifteen, I don't think that is too bad considering
some of the stories I have heard from other parents with kids of the same age.

Last year I contacted the ACLU about some of the matters going on at the school
where my daughter attends. They advised me to take tha matter higher than the
asst. principal. When I called the district office they referred me to the co-
principals. I asked for one of them to call me. Instead they talked to my
daughter, told her if they didn't call for her to let me know they resolved the
matter of her wearing red. He told her to not pay any attention to the asst.
principal because she over reacts about these colors, but it is better for her
to over react than not to react at all. So here you have conflict among the
ranks of the staff and kids who don't know what to do. I should have taken it
above that level when no one contacted me personally about this matter. But I
let it drop because we were all getting pretty tired of the whole thing. I
guess I shouldn't have stopped there.

By the way, we live in Lodi, CA. There is no danger of these kids wearing red
or blue. If there were, i would agree with the school and discourage my
daughter from wearing these colors. (And she does were other colors besides red
and blue).

Any advice would be appreciated.

Donna
From: Nigel.Allen@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Nigel Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: College, Sororities and $$$$$$
Date: 20 Aug 92 11:42:05 GMT
Organization: Echo Beach

In article <1992Aug18.124230.24808@sparky.imd.sterling.com> bwalker@IMD.Sterling.COM (Bruce Walker) writes:
>I currently have a daughter who will be a freshman this fall
>at UNL. I was wondering what people thought of sororities and
>the expense they involve.

Sororities are probably a mistake.

The social exclusiveness they promote works against the idea of being
exposured to people of other backgrounds that you would find in a university-
run dormitory.

As well, women who belong to sororities are more likely to associate with
men in fraternities, and fraternity parties are hazardous for women unless
they control their drinking. Every year, you hear stories about women
who had a lot to drink at a fraternity party and were gang-raped.

Are all fraternity men evil? No, but life is a matter of evaluating risk
factors and minimizing unnecessary risks, and the fraternity/sorority 
lifestyle strikes me as an unreasonably high risk.

(There are often intermindable discussions/flame wars about fraternities
in soc.college, by the way.)

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: Joan Balser
Subject: Need your opinion on Careers for teens
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:30:27 GMT

My daughter is starting high school this year.  I was wondering if anyone on
the net knows who I can contact to get information on all the 
careers available for future jobs.  I know she is young (14) but I would like
to expose her everything that is available for her so she will have a rough
idea what she would like to take in University.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.  
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: Nigel.Allen@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Nigel Allen)
Subject: Re: Need your opinion on Careers for teens
Organization: Echo Beach
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 01:54:46 GMT

While I agree that early high school is too early to choose a career, it's
interesting to learn more about relatively obscure occupations.

Volunteering at a student newspaper or at the community access channel of
a cable TV outlet can be fun. It probably won't lead to a job in
broadcasting or journalism, but it can help someone become more articulate.

Another career it's interesting to know more about, even though you
might never choose it: Medical illustration

About six people a year enter the "art as a applied to medicine" program at
the University
of Toronto, take art courses and some of the same anatomy courses as
medical students, and at the end of three years are illustrating medical
diagrams and understanding what they're drawing.

So I'm not trying to persuade anyone to become a medical illustrator, but
I would encourage any bright high school student to browse through a
directory of occupations just for background information. (But then, I've
been known to patiently explain to people that they should carefully read
the fine print in the front of the phone book or on the back of a
telegraph form.)

Nigel Allen

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey)
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: Need your opinion on Careers for teens
Date: 18 Aug 1992 22:37:10 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: anarres.cs.berkeley.edu

Joan Balser writes:
>My daughter is starting high school this year.  I was wondering if anyone on
>the net knows who I can contact to get information on all the 
>careers available for future jobs.  I know she is young (14) but I would like
>to expose her everything that is available for her so she will have a rough
>idea what she would like to take in University.

Ease up!

Whatever information anyone gives you about jobs now will be obsolete
by the time your daughter graduates from college in eight years.

She should pay no attention whatever to job markets, but should instead
study whatever interests her.  This choice will probably reflect both
her natural inclination and the teaching at her school.  (I used to teach
at a high school where the best course taught happened to be about
Russian history.  The result is that a lot of the kids who graduate from
that school end up studying Russian language, history, or culture in
college.)

If she finds something that she loves, and commits herself to it, and
is good at it, she'll find a job.  If some well-meaning adult reads the
want ads and tells her what courses to take on that basis, she'll be
miserable and unemployed.

I say this because I am teaching university computer science -- a "glamour"
field -- and I am constantly confronted by kids who soldier their way
through my classes, hating every minute, because their parents told them
there are jobs in computer science.  Yes, there *are* jobs in computer
science, but those miserable kids aren't going to get them; the jobs will
go to the kids who love computers.

There are more jobs, statistically, for computer programmers than for
poets, but if your daughter has the choice of being a great poet or a
mediocre programmer, *her* chance of getting a job will be better as a poet.

But she doesn't need *information* to make that choice--at least not
information about careers.  She needs the chance to try lots of things,
which presumably she'll get in school, and the freedom to work hard at
what she most enjoys, whatever that turns out to be.
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Wednesday, 19 Aug 1992 17:27:43 EDT
From: Bliss B. Siman <ROPBB@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: careers

I agree with everything that was said about letting a 14 year old develop her
interests with little regard to the "market", but I would suggest that as her
intrests develop, literature such as she will find in the High School and
public libraries on how to translate interests into jobs will be very valuable.
There is lots of material that she can look at as her interests develop to tell
her what people with these interests do in the world.  That bit of reality
can't hurt.
c
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
From: L621035@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: High Schools & finding careers
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 21:46:08 GMT

The school guidance counselor is your best place to start, to find a place
to introduce your teen to career possibilities.  It *is* (IMHO) important
to at least get some clues as to possible field interests.  Why I believe
this is; the 90's have seen MAJOR cuts in extracurricular activities/classes
in the high school.  In some districts foreign language has been eliminated
as well as the arts, due to budget cuts. (I only know about CA schools, some
states may be ok)  Also the # of classes per day have been cut.  In one High
school, the students only get to take 5 classes per day.  The parents, students
& counselors need to work together to acertain that there will be classes
availble in the field that the teen currently would like to strive for.  My
own teen (entering her 3rd year of HS) has changed her mind about the part-
icular job she wants after college,(often) but not the fundamental "major".
"Something math related".  All we had to do was to find out which courses
were offered at the high school, that would get her admitted to the college
she wanted to take her major in.  If we had run into classes not being offered
we would've had enough notice to make other arrangements.  Waiting until the
Senior year is not wise in these hard times.  Too much planning "for" the teen
isn't advisable either.  But a little forethough goes a long way.
From: gwynne@milton.u.washington.edu
Newsgroups: alt.parents-teens
Subject: Re: Parents Without Partners - opinions?
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:24:24 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Aug11.145920.6793@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> hlaufman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Harry B Laufman) writes:
>
>Hello,
>
>     What information/opinion/experience does anyone have
>about Parents Without Partners?  I'm planning to attend an
>"introductory" meeting and have had various reactions from 
>friends.
>
>A "Noble Support Group" or a "Meat Market"?
>
>Regards,  Harrington  hlaufman @magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu

My ONLY experience with them was, while I applauded their reference-
checking process via letters from clergy, counselors and other types
good at character references, I found one too many names on their
member list that I knew to be of less than quality character. 
Especially the name of one that I almost filed a sexual harrassment
suit against while I worked with the Feds.  Now, this all may be
a fluke.  There have got to be some good stories out there - let's
hear them.

Kristan