From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Choosing Dangerous Relationships (was: How to Protect Women)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:06:55 GMT

In article <C06rFH.FFz@news.cso.uiuc.edu> levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine) writes:
>
>For a self-professed skeptic, you seem very naive in this particular
>case. It seems likely that Ms. Givens' interest in Mr. Tyson
>was economic, not sexual or romantic. But is she going to admit
>in print, "I married the richest sucker I could get!"

So, Robin Givens, the successful model and actress, whose yearly earnings
almost certainly exceed those of ANY of us "ordinary folk", said in
essence, "I'm gunna marry this *rich* sucker, even if I'm not particularly
attracted to him, and even if he DOES have a tendency to beat me up! Cause
I crave his money, you see." Get real! 
>
>One thing I will admit: Women of all ages and political
>convictions often prefer lovers who seem strong, capable and powerful.
>*Some* women see evil as powerful and are hence attracted to evil men; 
>they are the ones who write mash letters to convicted murders. 
>That was, perhaps, the woman you saw on television when the police 
>carried off the "Butcher of Buenos Aires" (who had been hiding in the 
>Bay Area), begging them not to take him. 

And perhaps we see here a hint of the *hidden* story of men and violence,
a story that feminists hope will stay buried. Would this villain have
been so beloved by women had he been the "bookworm of Buenos Aires"?
When violent and abusive male behavior is rewarded by women with the 
*sweetest* of possible rewards, it's kind of pointless to go off blaming
men, without also considering womens' roles in encouraging and rewarding
the extremes of machismo.

>
>But other women see good as powerful -- not only consciously,
>but subconsciously. I know I'm one of them; and for that reason
>I often find kind and ethical behavior a turnon. I remember a
>few years ago a male coworker showed himself to be unexpectedly
>kind and perceptive. I had a dream that night, that I was
>going to bed with him; and in the morning I found I was
>thinking about him sexually although I never had before. Well,
>I prayed for the thoughts to go away, because I knew he
>wasn't attracted to me and I wasn't, really, attracted to
>him. And in a few days the thoughts did, indeed, disappear. But that
>passing incident taught me a lot about my own psychology.

Yes. In other words, for a short time, you had an erotic dream about
a "nice guy." But then you came back to your normal self, and lost
interest in him. Presumably you didn't tell him how you felt about
him; perhaps this might have changed how the two of you feel.
A lot of good all this nicety-niceness did HIM; all it
got him was an erotic dream in somebody else's head. It still didn't
get him a girlfriend. If it did, we'd start to see a lot more of it.
But since it doesn't, it's behavior men are going to have to 
start unlearning.
>
>Which is more common -- women being turned on by evil, or by
>good? I don't know. I would just like to ask the (heterosexual)
>male readers of this newsgroup: Which kind of woman do
>you want to see in the morning when you wake up? Which kind
>do you want for the mother of your children?

Speaking for myself, I'd love to find a sweet, kind, feminine, nurturing
woman who appreciates a man who treats her well. But women like that
are pretty damn scarce in North America today. Any ideas where I might
find one?

(Actually, I do have a good lead! :)  )
-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!


     "Mystical explanations are considered deep. The truth is that
      they are not even superficial."

                   - Friedrich Nietzsche    (The Gay Science: 126)