From: YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: Re: Industrial feudalism?
Organization: Yale University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 21:18:58 EST

>
>In article <dpn2.230.727838665@po.CWRU.Edu> dpn2@po.CWRU.Edu (Damien P. Neil) writes:
>>
>>This is not quite correct; I distinctly remember reading somewhere (in
>>N-Space maybe?) that Niven and Pournelle did not mean to say in _Mote_ that
>>that particular society _would_ evolve, merely that it _could_. They used it
>>mostly because it seemed like a fun background for a plot.
>
>I think authors use feudal societies either due to laziness or to a desire
>for simplicity.  It cuts down greatly on the number of important or powerful
>characters that need to be dealt with.  Want something?  Go talk to the king.
>That's much tidier than stageing a media blitz and lobbying congress and
>buying representatives and persuading power groups to support you....
>
>
>
>paul@econ.yale.edu (Paul McGuire) sez:
>
>> think authors use feudal societies either due to laziness or to a desire
>>for simplicity.  It cuts down greatly on the number of important or powerful
>>characters that need to be dealt with.  Want something?  Go talk to the king.
>>what's much tidier than stageing a media blitz and lobbying congress and
>>buying representatives and persuading power groups to support you....
>
>Simpler? Have you actually *looked* at the processes of medieval legalisms
>and politics? They are ablsolutely insane! Nothing would have been as simple
>as "going to talk to the king"! It was probably easily as annoying to deal
>with as modern government. For the increased complexity of modern governance,
>substitute crabbed tradition and uncontrollable fuedal minions and such...
>
   If my memory serves, In _Mote_ (It could have been _Dune_, but I don't think
so.) A character explains why at that particular period in time, the monarchy
feudalism power is efficient.  You have an empire which is rapidly
(re)expanding, and while FTL flights are possible, it's still not that easy
or cheap. (or perfect.  Vast distances between the planets of the Empire
lies unexplored.)  Thus, it is too difficult for a centralized bureaucracy
to control every nook and cranny of every planet.  So you have a local leader
responsible for his local section who is loyal to the planetary leader, who
is responsible for the planet, who is responsible to the Emperor.
   Arguably, one can have this type of setup in a democracy as well, but...
   While the Emperor has enough power to break up a limited number of
rebellions, he has not enough resources to deal with conflicts everywhere;
(or even complicated fractionalism.)
That was the justification given for destroying and dealing very harshly
(much more harshly than strictly necessary; as example to others) with
one of the rebelling colonies before the opening of _Mote_.  It also allowed
easier assimilation of local chieftans and leaders.  They could keep a lot
of their autonomy by accepting relatively few rules.
 
   The relatively simple allegiances of a monarchy-feudalism allowed, in
_Mote_'s setting, for the somewhat weak emperor to gather allegiances, and
set up some resemblence of Humanity-wide control.
 
   Note that in _Gripping Hand_, the bureaucracy seems to grow, as the
Empire becomes more settled, and Empire's resources (appearently) had grown,
giving the more democratic institutions more control.
 
       Junsok Yang