HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Anti-Lock Brakes makes stopping SAFER?
From: johns@trident.datasys.swri.edu (Stephen Johns)
Date: 28 Dec 92 20:40:59 GMT
Organization: Southwest Research Institute

In article <1992Dec28.162405.24087@ncar.ucar.edu> cbh@windsurf.scd.ucar.edu (Cris Hannu) writes:
>In article <1haiiaINNanq@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, ce423@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Josh Lackey III) writes:

[Stuff deleted]

>> I'm wondering what the consensus
>> is for ABS users as to the usefulness and added safety they feel
>> the system provides? Please include specific examples where you
>> feel the ABS provided you with an extra margin or safety!

I've driven cars with and without ABS, and I will NEVER own a car
without ABS again.  Traffic and drivers in San Antonio are pretty bad
and love to pull out in front of you.  Numerous times on wet roads, driving
cars with no ABS, I've had people pull out in front of me REALLY close,
many times when I hit the brakes, I went into quick, small skids, and I hate
that feeling of not having control of the car.  (I normally keep a very good
following distance which many jerks consider large enough to squeeze into.)
Same situation with ABS is trivial, hit the brakes and you come to a quick,
controlled stop, steering isn't even affected that much.  But don't stop and
gloat, as the person behind you without ABS may be closing in fast!

Try this on an unpopulated, wet road:
take a non ABS car up to 70, heck 50, and do a panic stop.
For some REAL fun just mash the brake pedal to the floor!

Try the same in a car with ABS, you'll see.  You just stop.

>I agree.  I'd rather not have it on dry/normal road conditions though.

I have rarely, if ever, had the ABS system kick in on dry/normal road
conditions.  An exception is when your cruising about 80, not watching where
you are all that closely, and notice the road you want to turn on is 20 ft in
front of you, hit the brakes and throw the car into the corner, the ABS will
keep you from sliding sideways through the intersection.  Without ABS your
only option would be to not turn.

This experience is with the ABS system on a 1990 Toyota Supra.
-- 
Stephen Johns, Research Analyst
Southwest Research Institute, SA, TX 78228 (512) 522-5751
From: dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Lemon Frequency, by Manufacturer
Date: 29 Dec 1992 17:24:17 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: clesun.central.sun.com


>"Number of 1991 lemon law cases each carmaker lost in six
>state-run arbitration programs...  A score of 1 means the
>company lost as many cases as its market share would predict.
>A score of 2 means it lost twice as many; and so on...  We
>can't say from the data whether the carmakers at the bottom
>of the list built more lemons or simply failed to resolve
>the cars' problems prior to arbitration."


Note that some of the manufacturers do not participate in 
state-run arbitration programs- I know Chrysler does not
(it has its own arbitration program- yeah, sure, that's
impartial!), so I'm not sure what the list really means.
Also, note that the list is not comprehensive with regard
to Lemon Laws- it just gives figures of arbitration.  IMHO<
the real test of Lemon Laws comes AFTER the arbitration breaks
down, and the court determines things... unfortunately, the
article does not give figures for these.

	Dave
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bsmg9810@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Bhaskar S.Manda)
Subject: Chicago kennedy pileup
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 18:00:49 GMT

I know it is very unlikely, but anybody have any idea
how many cars in the Kennedy pileup yesterday had ABS ?

No alternative to sensible driving.

Bhaskar
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer)
Subject: Re: 1990 Audi 100 SUCKS !!!!!!!!!!!!e+10
Reply-To: dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:15:55 GMT

In article <mills.725036435@amber.athena.lkg.dec.com>, mills@athena.lkg.dec.com (George Mills) writes:
|> That's bull. It was the AUDI-5000 automatic hear (sic) and there was something
|> very wrong with that car. I saw a few "special programs done" (yes,
|> by the media) it was very convincing something was wrong with the car.
|> So what, even if it was the peddles (sic), THAT CAR KILLED people.
|> 

Come on!  The brakes on _most_ cars will keep a car from moving under full
throttle.  The only way people unintentionally accelerated was to hit the
gas by mistake, instead of the brake.  Try it sometime.  Push down on the
brake and try to move the car by hitting the gas; you aren't going to 
go anywhere (unless the engine can mysteriously start generating 1000 hp
and 1000 lb-ft of torque).

The media.  This is the same media that perpetuated the gulf war _story_ about
the Iraqis stealing the incubators and leaving the babies to die.  It was 
later determined that the story was a hoax, planned by lobbyists who had
much to gain if the war continued.

-- 
dwjz@bnr.ca    Disclaimer: my opinions only  
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: dml7@navaho.cc.bellcore.com (lee,danny)
Subject: *** '90 Ciera SL for $10K ... Worth it? ***
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 21:06:36 GMT

hi.  i would like to know whether the following is a good buy.

1990 oldsmobile cutlass ciera sl, maroon exterior, grey velour
interior, all power, alarmed, stereo cassette, 29K miles, mint
condition, best offer.

this is almost an exact quote from the classified ad i was
reading.  it said best offer.  i called and asked the seller to
give a starting negotiable price.  she said $10,000 was fair,
but stressed that it was best offer.  obviously the buyer wants
the price to be as low as possible, and the seller wants it as
high as possible.  i think for $10,000, i can get something much
better.  so i appeal to the net for a fair price.  i'm planning to
make a printout of all replies for her reference when i go see
the car.  i think (to start things off) that $5,000 to $6,000 is
a good price.  what do you think?  are there other things (ie.
problems) i should be aware of for this particular car?  thanks
in advance for any and all help, suggestion, and comments.  i
will summarize should there be any interest.

danny

  ________/----------------------/______
 / Danny / dml7@cc.bellcore.com / 1992 /
/_______/----------------------/______/
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: tclin@cs.ulowell.edu (Ta-Cheng Lin)
Subject: What is mailing list?
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 18:18:35 GMT


Can somebody kindly tell me what mailing list is?
I heard it quite often, but I just do not know what it is.


Xref: sparky rec.autos:30304 rec.autos.tech:17059
Organisation: European Space Operation Centre (E.S.O.C)
Date: Tuesday, 22 Dec 1992 11:50:35 CET
From: <MACLEMEN@ESOC.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Re: Do SPOILERS Really Work???
 <1992Dec13.225328.14446@nntp.hut.fi> <1h2vemINN4m8@access.usask.ca>
 <1992Dec21.011906.21726@u.washington.edu> <92357.104151SROWELL@ESOC.BITNET>

> bla, bla, bla, .. I think my Supra looks gorgeous with my spoiler..bla,
> ...bla, bla, bla
 I think this 2 ton mothership needs any weight reduction it can get,
 better without the spoiler - might also help you get a few extra needed
 miles per gas refill, etc.

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: ramiro@rrunner.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ramiro Reinoso)
Subject: Re: Emblems, names and meanings...
Organization: Bellcore
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 03:48:51 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.160031.2842@bnr.ca>, dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer) writes:

|> 
|> Japanese:
|> 
|> Acura - "Precision crafted performance" 
|> Honda - they don't have a blurb!

Yes they do: "the car that sells itself"


|> Anybody want to add more to the list?
|> -- 

Mercedes Benz "engineered like no other car in the world"
Audi "take control"
Nissan "build for the human race"
Pontiac "we build exitement"


|> dwjz@bnr.ca    Disclaimer: my opinions only  

-- 
Ramiro Reinoso, 444 Hoes Lane, Office RRC-1E-226. Piscataway, NJ 08854
(PHONE) (908) 699-5021  
(INTERNET) ramiro@ctt.bellcore.com
(UUCP)  ...!bellcore!ctt!ramiro
From: ce423@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Josh Lackey III)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Anti-Lock Brakes makes stopping SAFER?
Date: 23 Dec 1992 20:35:22 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ce423@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Josh Lackey III)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu



I've yet to drive a car with ABS. I've lost control of my
car once, and have nearly lost control several times since. 99% of my
close calls were on wet or drenched pavement. In every near loss of control
incident I can remember, the braking system was not a factor.
All of my close calls were at highway speeds and resulted from
hydroplaning. Dont think ABS can be effective during 
hydroplaning conditions?

I'm wondering what the consensus
is for ABS users as to the usefulness and added safety they feel
the system provides? Please include specific examples where you
feel the ABS provided you with an extra margin or safety!

  Some ABS systems now incorporate traction control, but my
perception is that ABS for the most part only provides added
margins of safety during emergency braking conditions. 

   One last question:  Are all ABS systems designed to monitor 
all four wheels on the car, or are some only active in front?

I will probably have ABS on my next car, but this should make for
an interesting discussion!

L8r!













-- 
Josh Lackey III      Internet E-Mail:     ce423@cleveland.freenet.edu 
                                          lackey@eglin.af.mil
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
From: kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup)
Subject: Re: What is the resonable oil comsumption?
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:43:33 GMT


><gong@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> (jiechen.james.gong) writes:
>	I have a 68000 milse '86 190E/2.3.  It needs more than a
>	quart of oil between 3000 miles oil change.

In article <1992Dec30.154753.13635@samba.oit.unc.edu>
Mike.Oniffrey@launchpad.unc.edu (Mike Oniffrey) writes:

>Of course, an engine in good shape should burn little oil over the body of
>its lifetime, but parts wear, and there comes a time when one must make a
>judgement call.  A rule of thumb is as long as yer block is burning/
>consuming less than a quart in 500 miles, let it go. When you pass this
>threshold, it's rebuild-time.

I've got a turbocharged Ford 2.3L I4 that seems to use a lot of oil, I
haven't measured it, but I'd figure about a qt. every Kmi or so (I've got
a nice light that tells me when I'm down a quart). I've always attributed
this to my habit of slowing with the transmission (== high rpm downshifts,
which == lotsa vacuum, which == oil sucked down the valve guides). My plug
thread ends have some burnt oil on them, but the tips and electrodes are
*always* clean ('cuz I drive like Bobby Rahal- no fouling here :-), and
there's no oil smoke on startup or grease in the pipe, either.

Anyone else with this experience?

	-Kenny
-- 
Kenny Crudup, Contractor, OSF DCE QA
OSF, 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA 02142	+1 617 621 7306
kenny@osf.osf.org			OSF has nothing to do with this post.
	  Religion: The longest-running gag ever played on Mankind.
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
From: gong@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (jiechen.james.gong)
Subject: What is the resonable oil comsumption?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 19:40:41 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Keywords: Mecedes 190E/2.3

I have a 68000 milse '86 190E/2.3.  It needs more than a quart of oil
between 3000 miles oil change.  The compression test showing the
engine is still like new.

What is the your experience on the engine oil consumption for this
car?  

Thanks,
James
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mwp@iconix.oz.au (Michael Paddon)
Subject: Re: Impact is DEAD [was: Electric Vehicles]
Organization: Iconix Pty Ltd (World Headquarters)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 02:20:01 GMT

In <1992Dec27.162355.27727@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> gpn0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (GARY PHILIP NEWHART) writes:
>>Not that I'm upset about the whole thing; long live the internal
>>combustion engine!
>>Flame away, eco-freaks!  Electric cars aren't gonna solve the problems,
>>just make some tree-huggers feel good about themselves.
>
>And what do you suggest, oh wise one? Do you own stock in the petroleum
>industry? Let me guess, this green house gas and pollution of the atmosphere,
>and not to mention increase lung disease is a phenomenon not attributed to
>the internal combution engine? Are you kidding?
>Not a tree hugger, just trying to content with reality

If the Impact really has been cancelled it is a giant step back for
the electric car industry. On the other hand, it means Mazda are sitting
on a gold mine. Long live the hydrogen rotary!

Michael
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jim@mwhhlaw (James P. Cavanaugh III)
Subject: Re: Emblems, names and meanings...
Organization: Martin Wade Hartley & Hollingsworth
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 12:46:55 GMT

In article <2B355DDC.4360@telly.on.ca> evan@telly.on.ca (Evan  
Leibovitch) writes:
> I seem to recall that until recently, all Buicks had fake louvres in  
the
> front fenders. When -- and why -- did that tradition end?
> 
> -- 
	Buick's "ventiports" first appeared on the 1949 models.   
Remember that postwar automotive styling was heavily influenced by the  
era's fighter planes.  The 49 Cadillac's fins were inspired by the twin  
tailed P-38 Lightning.  Likewise, Buick's portholes mimicked the  
exhaust ports common on the piston engined fighters of the day.  I  
think that I even recall reading that the stylists tried to get a  
system that put a light behind each porthole, and hooked each light to  
a spark plug wire in the engine.  This did not make production, but  
wouldn't it have been great?
	Through most of the 50s, the portholes remained in fairly pure  
form.  The lesser series (Special, Super and sometimes the Century) had  
3 portholes on each front fender, while the Roadmaster (and the Century  
for a couple of years - I think) had 4 portholes per fender.
	By the 60s and 70s, the portholes became more and more  
rectangular instead of round or teardrop shaped.  As to when the last  
porthole-equipped Buick rolled off the line, I'm not sure.  It seems to  
me that the last rear drive Electra from the mid 80s would be a logical  
guess. I do know that they were on the 77 LeSabres, which is the last  
Buick I spent much time around.  As I sit here, I don't know if the  
Roadmaster has portholes or not.  With the Roadmaster name, it ought to  
be a 4 holer.

Jim Cavanaugh
Xref: sparky rec.autos:30493 rec.autos.tech:17143
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Re: Do SPOILERS Really Work???
Date: 24 Dec 1992 16:29:32 GMT
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.239.3.202

bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw) writes:
>In <1h4gu1INN1it@armory.centerline.com> jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>>choy@skorpio.usask.ca (I am a terminator.) writes:
>>>In article <1992Dec13.225328.14446@nntp.hut.fi>, k33074s@kaira.hut.fi (Micke Bergman) writes:
>>>What do spoilers do to fuel economy? On my flight simulator, I can put on
>>>spoilers to slow my plane down. I expect dragging a spoiler around would
>>>slow a car down.

>>On a plane spoilers are used to increase drag and lift dramatically.
>				^^^^^^^^^	   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Sorry to be picky, but on aircraft spoilers decrease lift dramatically.
>If you would like a demonstration fly Swissair's 747 flight into
>Geneva (I wondered how he was going to get that big momma into that
>airport). Spoilers are used inflight to 'dramatically' drop a planes
>altitude without changing its attitude. Sure was a neat bit of flying!

What you saw demonstrates the "increase drag" portion of my statement
but does not negate the "increases lift" portion.

Increasing drag at constant power slows the plane, which results in a
drop in lift as the airflow speed across the wing surfaces drops.  But
spoiler extension also increases the length of the wing --
particularly the length of the top area of the wing -- increasing
lift (I assume you know why airplane wings work).

What you saw is minimal extension of the spoilers, which increases
drag enough to dramatically slow the plane without causing significant
growth in lift.  As the plane slows airflow across the wing drops and
so does lift -- enough so to overcome any additional lift caused by
the spoilers.

During takeoff and landing you extend spoilers completely and use
enough power to overcome the extra drag losses (which are also less
apparent at low velocities) so airspeed remains the same or increases
and you get *extra* lift -- but a big drop in overall efficiency.  The
drop in efficiency sure beats running out of runway.

I haven't looked closely at the spoiler design on a 747 but on the
DC10, 727, and 737 at full extension the spoilers extend outward
behind the wing as well as downward.  This extra extension will
further improve lift.  At moderate spoiler angles no extension occurs,
minimizing increased lift while still increasing drag significantly.

Even the most basic flight simulators demonstrate this behavior.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: colombo@bronco.fnal.gov
Subject: Re: Anti-Lock Brakes makes stopping SAFER?
Organization: Fermilab Computing Division
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 22:21:28 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.191605.14136@admin.kth.se>, palm@admin.kth.se (Christer Palm) writes:
> In article <1992Dec28.162405.24087@ncar.ucar.edu> cbh@windsurf.scd.ucar.edu (Cris Hannu) writes:
>>In article <1haiiaINNanq@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, ce423@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Josh Lackey III) writes:
>>> 
>>>    One last question:  Are all ABS systems designed to monitor 
>>> all four wheels on the car, or are some only active in front?
>>> 
>>Can't help you out there, but I *think* that the latter is may be the case.
>>
> 
> All ABS systems monitor all wheels or the vehicle. 
> 

The older Explorer/Bronco II's had 2-wheel (rear) ABS (as an option). 
Are you saying that it monitors all 4 wheels, but only ABS's two?  You
couldn't even use it in 4WD, but that's changed on the current Explorer.

I get an insurance discount for having 4-wheel ABS.  If you have it,
you might want to check it out because they didn't tell me, I just
happened to notice it in the fine print.

-- 
 ___________________________________________________________________________
 *****  *   *  From the e-net desk of: Rick Colombo CD/DCD/DSG    *    *
 *      **  *  Fermi Nat'l Acc'l Lab   708-840-8225 Fermilab     * *   *
 ***    * * *  P.O. Box 500   MS 369   Feynman Computer Center  *****  *
 *      *  **  Batavia, Ill. USA 60510 Colombo@fnal.fnal.gov    *   *  *****
 *    Of course I speak for: Fermilab, Congress and the President... NOT!!!
From: ah190@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stuart Pearl)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Accuracy of Those Car Price Books
Date: 31 Dec 1992 02:25:32 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


How accurate are the figures shown in those car price paper backs
put out by Dell, Edmond and others?

I'm referring to the books that show all the makes and options along
with two columns of figures; one column of figures matches the list
price shown on the sticker, and the other column shows the dealer's
invoice, or supposed "cost."

I've always thought the figures were pretty reliable, but the sales
folk insist the "dealer cost" figures are always off or misleading.
Naturally it's to their advantage to insist - God forbid you should
have any sort of advantage over them.  But the books have always
helped me negotiate UP from their cost - which drives them nuts -
rather than down from their sticker.  When I order a car from scratch
I figure it's fair to give them $200 or so just write up the papers
and drive it off the truck when it arrives.

-- 
                   ---===<<< Stuart Pearl >>>===---
                           Cleveland, Ohio
                      ah190@cleveland.freenet.edu
                         --------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rande@rtsg.mot.com (Kris Rande)
Subject: 93 Ford Probe GT Prices
Summary: Looking for dealer invoice price on 93 Probe GTs
Keywords: Probe
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 15:21:58 GMT

Can anyone give me an idea of what the dealer invoice price is
on a new 1993 Ford Probe GT?  Please email responses to me.  If
there's an interest, I'll post a summary here.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Kris V. Rande
Motorola Radio Telephone Systems Group         rande@rtsg.mot.com
Arlington Heights, Illinois
-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Kris V. Rande
  Motorola Radio Telephone Systems Group              +1-708-632-3394
  Arlington Heights, Illinois                         rande@rtsg.mot.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: morton@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Brent Morton)
Subject: Re: emblems & names
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 04:20:28 GMT

In article <n12cbt@ofa123.fidonet.org> Larry.Mc.Donald@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:
> klf@druwa.ATT.COM 
> 
> (FranklinKL):
> 
> > Actually, the RR logo for Rolls-Royce has had two iterations.  The
> > original logo was two silver R's colored with red enamaling.  When one
> > of the founding partners (I believe it was Royce) died, the enamaling
> > was changed to black and it has remained so 'til this day.
>
> I had read that the original RR emblem had both Rs enamelled 
> red, but only one turned black on the death on one partner. The 
> remaining R turned black on the death of the remaining partner.

The Hon. Charles Stewart Rolls resigned from Rolls-Royce in April 1910 and
was killed in a flying accident 12 July of that year. However, the twin R's
remained red up until the death of Royce.

-- Brent
morton@prolix.gaul.csd.uwo.ca
From: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: emblems, names and m
Date: 29 Dec 92 15:27:54 GMT
Reply-To: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald Bense)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.autos, Larry.Mc.Donald@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:
> bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil

> > How about a squashed 'H' for Honda? (After all, in other markets
> > besides the US one, Acuras are sold under the Honda badge.)

>   Has anyone noticed that Acura's stylisied 'A' is just the
>Honda squashed 'H' upside down?

I don't know about upside down, but I did state that it was "squashed",
kind of like their cars' passenger compartments in minor accidents.

I guess that great mileage has a cost....

Ron