From: clamen@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Subject: Reves des Plaines (was: Radio stations in Quebec, Western Canada)
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
	<1371@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca>
	<CLAMEN.92Aug13170318@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU>
	<1382@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca>
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 06:30:32 GMT
X-Posted-From: byron.sp.cs.cmu.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1382@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca> hlynka@server.uwindsor.ca (Myron Hlynka) writes:

   Stewart Clamen = SC
   Myron Hlynka = MH
   (in earlier postings)

   MH   When my forefathers came to Canada, it was not officially bilingual.

   SC When your forefathers came to Canada, English and French were official
   SC languages in the Parliament and in Federal courts.

   That is not the same as saying that Canada is officially bilingual.

Can't please everybody.  Even that limited bilingualism was too much
for some people back then.

   MH   In fact, I must have missed the referendum that made Canada bilingual,
   MH   with French and English as first class and everyone else as 
   MH   second class. What year was that referendum again??

   SC Sorry, but I am going to yell here.

   SC WHEN MANITOBA WAS CREATED (1870), IT WAS OFFICIALLY BILINGUAL.

   True, but the province of Manitoba was created in some sense when the 
   federal government had a gun to its head, at the time of the 
   Riel Rebellion. 

Since Manitoba was 50/50 French/English in 1870, claiming duress is
pretty far-fetched.  Manitoba was the dream of some Canadian
nationalists, a province where jointly settled and colonized by
French- and English-Canadians.

   SC The Manitoba provincial government unconstitutionally removed the
   SC bilingualism provision.  In the early 1980s (I cannot remember the
   SC year), the Supreme Court of Canada ruled (the appeal case had to do
   SC with someone receiving a unilingual parking ticket, I believe) that
   SC Manitoba had been illegally passing legislation all those years, since
   SC they had not been published in both official languages.

   When Saskatchewan and Alberta were created in 1905, they were not
   officially bilingual. The case of Manitoba was fought earlier in 
   Manitoba and Canadian history, back in the 1890's. 

Yes, and it is a grave injustive to French-Canadians, and in some
people's mind, ultra vires.  Those provinces were created out of an
officially bilingual Northwest Territories.  The same Supreme Court
of Canada mentioned earlier has ruled against those provinces wrt
certain language rights.

   More recently,
   Pierre Trudeau stacked the Supreme Court of Canada with people who 
   shared his "vision" of Canada. Then his party sought out someone in 
   Manitoba who would be willing to a case to court, any case, even a 
   traffic ticket. Trudeau's Liberal government paid all of the expenses 
   of the man involved.Of course, Trudeau's hand picked Supreme Court 
   made its decision as it was supposed to do. 

   The result was that Manitoba's laws and legislation were declared 
   illegal since they had not been written in French. It is curious
   that Manitoba does not have the power to make its own rules 
   regarding language, but must get them approved by the Federal 
   government, where one can be sure that Quebec will not allow Manitoba 
   to remove any French provisions, regardless of the proportion of 
   French Manitobans. 

I can assure you that the Parti Quebecois politicians could not have
cared less.

   The Supreme Court, amazingly enough, was going to allow 
   the Manitoba government to keep its old laws without the 
   incredible expense of translating them into French, in exchange
   for Manitoba becoming officially bilingual, as acceptable to 
   the Societe Franco Manitobain. Where the Supreme Court got the
   right to do this, I have no idea. 

Go read the FEDERAL law that created Manitoba, and the various
Constitution Acts of Canada.  In fact, the Parliament of Canada
(still!) has the right to overturn ANY provincial law.  Even Trudeau
did not use that provision.

   Howver, when Howard Pawley decided to make Manitoba officially
   bilingual (French/English style), and tried to do so, 
   there was a huge outcry. A vote (without any official meaning) 
   was held in Winnipeg, (along with a city election) and the 
   concept was overwhelmingly defeated and condemned.
   The attitude of the Winnipegers was that French English bilingualism 
   was completely unfair to the other ethnic groups, especially groups 
   numerically larger than the French, such as the Ukrainian Canadians 
   and the German Canadians. 

Had Manitoba remained officially bilingual as it had been intended,
there would be more French-speaking Manitobans than Ukrainian- or
German-speaking Manitobans.

   Thousands of NDP party members in Manitoba
   resigned to protest Pawley's decision. When one of Pawley's
   own NDP party members, Russ Doern, broke ranks and declared that
   he would vote against the proposed legislation, Pawley
   backed down, since his majority was very slim and his whole 
   government could be defeated on the issue. 

   Instead Manitoba was stuck spending millions of dollars 
   translating old laws and legislation, much
   of which was hopelessly dated, in order to satisfy the Supreme
   Court. It was a lose - lose situation. Manitobans have not forgotten.
   They did not enjoy being kicked around by Trudeau's Quebec Liberals.

It is indeed a shame.
--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
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Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890, USA