HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dgreen@thor (David Greenebaum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Dollar Cost of Awards
Date: 7 Jan 1993 01:30:14 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.berkeley.edu

Uh, anyone got a sharp knife?  I seem to have gotten my feet full of
splinters.  Serve me right for calling Sappy over to play while I'm
in bare feet.

---------------------  Bjalfi Thordharson/College of St. Katherine/Province of
 |\  | |\  |\  |// |       the Mists/Principality of the Mists/West Kingdom
 | > | |\\ | \ |/  |   David Greenebaum/University of California/Berkeley, CA
 |<  | | \ |   |   |   dgreen@athena.berkeley.edu, dgreen@garnet.berkeley.edu
 | > | |   |   |   |
 |/  | |   |   |   |   "I make mistakes, but I am on the side of good -- by
---------------------  accident and happenchance." -- the Golux
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: dgreen@thor (David Greenebaum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Dollar Cost of Awards
Date: 7 Jan 1993 01:15:37 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.berkeley.edu

Greetings from Bjalfi!

Arenwald von Hagenburg writes:

>I believe that the way that awards are structured requires a person
>to expend money to gain them.
>Consider the following.
>	Service awards : [time is money argument deleted]
>	A & S Awards   : [money spent on equipment, teaching, etc.
		argument deleted]
>	Fighting Awards : [money spent on armor etc. argument deleted]

I don't think that anyone will dispute the contention that all the
activities you mention--those which can lead to awards--cost either
money, time which (by certain reckoning) can be convertible to money,
or both.  But I have a problem with the implied underlying philosophy
of the wording of your statements.  (Please--this is not meant to be a
flame.  I don't mean to direct any of this at you, Arenwald, but at the
wording.)  The implication seems to me to be that whoever is fighting/
serving/artandsciencing is doing so IN ORDER to get an award.  That,
in my opinion, SHOULD NOT BE.  I see the various activities of the
SCA as hobbies, interests, in some cases obsessions, but always ends
in themselves.  I don't dance to get a Pied d'Argent, I dance because
I think it's fun.  I don't do heraldry because I want a Leaf of Merit,
I do heraldry because it's a game I like to play.  If I happen to
receive an award on account of some activity I enjoy doing, that's
a cookie for dessert.  NOT the meal I slaved over a stove for.

I will grant that there are people who work to get awards, rather than
to enjoy what they are working at.  For them, yes, the awards are
structured in such a manner that you have to spend money to get them.
So what?  If you want something, and the only way to get it is to buy
it, then you have to buy it or go without.  Buy your d--n award and
enjoy it.  Any award _I_ might get is free, because it will be given
to me after I've done the things I would be doing anyway, even if the
award didn't exist.

---------------------  Bjalfi Thordharson/College of St. Katherine/Province of
 |\  | |\  |\  |// |       the Mists/Principality of the Mists/West Kingdom
 | > | |\\ | \ |/  |   David Greenebaum/University of California/Berkeley, CA
 |<  | | \ |   |   |   dgreen@athena.berkeley.edu, dgreen@garnet.berkeley.edu
 | > | |   |   |   |
 |/  | |   |   |   |   "I make mistakes, but I am on the side of good -- by
---------------------  accident and happenchance." -- the Golux
From: vader@meryl.csd.uu.se (]ke Eldberg)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: HELP! name searching.
Date: 6 Jan 93 19:52:49 GMT
	<BRANDON.93Jan6125651@gauss.math.brown.edu>
Organization: University of Uppsala, Sweden
NNTP-Posting-Host: meryl.csd.uu.se
In-reply-to: brandon@gauss.math.brown.edu's message of Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:56:51 GMT

Greetings from William de Corbie.

Regarding "anti-social" bynames, I gather that by this one means
names of a derogatory kind. These were not at all unusual in our
period. My impression is that the Scandinavians were particularly
fond of giving each other such nicknames. It is sometimes hard to
draw a firm line between the truly derogatory and names which
allude to the physical appearence of the bearer; "long nose" can
be regarded as derogatory, but need not be.
 
Some examples from Scandinavia:
 
Hallotta = woman who leans
Skroppa  = scrawny woman
Syrpa    = dirty, untidy woman
Langben  = long legs (male)
Grubbi   = wrinkled one (male)
Matarask = a man who eats too much
Atal     = despicable (m)
Yling    = a guy who howls
Oroekia  = sloppy, careless person
 
and so on...

William
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Subject: Re: Hoobah, Vivat and Hurrah for Geoffrey Mathias, Master of the Laurel!
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 06:10:53 GMT

	yeah! hooray! 
		'bout time too :)
		 -Ilaine
-- 
Liz Stokes         | 	Ilaine's E-Z Garb Workshop
Ilaine de Cameron  | 	We're going to try an experiment now. Instead of using
                   | 	a loom, we're going to wind all the yarn into balls
ilaine@panix.com   |    and adopt an infinite number of kittens...
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bwilson@eng.auburn.edu (Brian Scott Wilson)
Subject: Re: Fighting for Crown..Another question.
Reply-To: bwilson@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:40:26 GMT

In article 19930106081847UCCXDEM@MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU, UCCXDEM <UCCXDEM@MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU> () writes:
>>>Have _both_ members of a prospective Royal couple
>>>ever entered a Crown list?
>>>Or is this explicitly ruled out?
>>>
>> MAC> Certainly it happens. As a matter of fact
>> MAC> (Ansteorrans, please correct
>> MAC> me if this is incorrect) WHen Dutchess Sir Rowan
>> MAC> became the first lady
>> MAC> ever to win a crown tournament, her opponent in the final bout was
>> MAC> Duke Hector. Her lord.
>> Yes, that's correct.  Also, Sir Elzasif was in the same list that Sir
>> Finn won for her.  And in the one where they both got knocked out in
>> the semi-finals.  Those are the only specifics I can think of.  I
>> don't know if Regina was in this last Crown list, which her Significant
>> Other won (Sutan Bloodaxe)....
>>     Gwenllian Cwmystwyth, Steppes Ansteorra
>Gwen,
>Her Highness was not fighting that day.
>      Marke von Mainz, Mooneschadowe Ansteorra


Aeruin was fighting when I won this past list.

Sir Brian
Princeps Meridies
From: zebee@wattle.itd.adelaide.edu.au (Zebee Johnstone)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Rapier weights
Date: 7 Jan 93 11:47:52 GMT
Organization: The University of Adelaide
NNTP-Posting-Host: wattle.itd.adelaide.edu.au

In the great Lochac trdition of doing things differently...

We are investigating doing fencing in Lochac, using quite different
weapons.
  
Our rapiers are made out of fibreglass rod (similar to fishing rod)
which enables us to have quite long rapiers (I;ve seen a 6' one.  very
funny but rather hard to use)

While we sort out the rules and get it all togther to put before the
West Kingdom, I wonder if someone could saisfy my curiosity?

How much did period rapiers weigh?  I mean the 3 foot and over ones used
in the early to mid 1500s.

I can't see they would have weighed much more than the fibreglass ones,
or they would have been pretty hard to use, but does anyone have some
real, live numbers?

Silfren

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
     Zebee Johnstone  DoD #605   | You don't own an Italian motorcycle 
     Adelaide City Council       |  - you merely have the privilege 
    zebee@itd.adelaide.edu.au    |    of paying its bills.... 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon)
Subject: recreating the middle ages
Organization: The Internet
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 19:16:00 GMT

I've got a problem with this - it involves things I regard as unethical.

For instance, being a proper Hundred Year's archer would involve (to stick
to the typical) a tendency to loot anything not bolted down, get roaring
drunk (if possible), wench indiscriminately, and sometimes shoot at heralds.
I have no desire to act like that.

To recreate an Arthurian romance, being a proper archer involves being part
of the scenery, since all the characters are either noble or holy and
sometimes both.
I like trees, but I don't really want to be one, or indeed any other part
of the scenery.

What I *do* want to do is to be able to do what an English archer of the
Hundred Year's War era (since I have no hope of finding out anything specific
about about Saxon archery, other than it existed) could do, and with what
(so closely as I can manage) he did it with.

So, folks, what's *that* recreating??

Maybe what we ought to say we are trying to re-create the _skills_
of the Middle Ages and Renaisance...

Graydon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
saundrsg@               "Praise then Darkness and Creation unfinished"
   qucdn.queensu.ca                   - U. K. LeGuin
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: 880840m@axe.acadiau.ca (MICHAEL ALEXANDER MCKAY)
Subject: Re: Saints' Days
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 23:23:03 GMT

In article <9301031458.aa04116@mc.lcs.mit.edu> D020214@univscvm.csd.scarolina.EDU (Cecily de Catton) writes:

>Is it too obvious to put in a reminder that some saints have more than
>one day?  An outstanding example is John the Baptist, whose feasts are
>June 24th (his birth, the principal day) and Aug. 29th (his death).

 A more outstanding example is the Blessed Virgin Mary who I believe tops 
the charts for multiple feasts!
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Non-fighting Royalty
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 23:14:20 GMT

Dennis O'Connor writes:
  			Civil War.

	[Much deleted -- Tibor]

  Would Corpora have to change to allow this ?

No.

Section II.B requires that Crown lists take place at a properly announced
event.  All fighting must conform to the rules of the lists (II.E).
V.A.1.g states that incipient Kingdoms must have a sufficient number
fighters to hold a significant competition, implying that all Crowns
ought to have a decent number of fighters.  VI.A.1.a.(3) mentions that
lists must "deterine, by combat, the successors to current Royalty", and
again mentions they must be fought at an event that is announced in the
kingdom newsletter.  VI.A.2.b sections (1)-(3) require that the competitors
fight for a member of the opposite gender, that they both be members from
before the competition throughout the reign, and that they may not compete
unless they believe they can serve. Governing and Policy Decision #5
specifically bans rapier combat from being part of the competition.  There
are some additional restrictions on competitors about office holding.

There is no reason, however, why your Kingdom Law can't have rules which
make a much stronger implication about the form and content of the
competition, and Corpora would allow that restriction.

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
Xref: sparky rec.org.sca:17665 rec.sport.fencing:832
From: cpm00@ras.amdahl.com (Craig P McLaughlin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca,rec.sport.fencing
Subject: Re: Renaissance Fencing Video
Keywords: sca fencing, stage fencing
Date: 13 Jan 93 00:40:19 GMT

Steve Hick writes:
|> In <1iul8mINN852@mirror.digex.com> Corun MacAnndra  asks:
|> 
|> >Has anyone seen a video entitled _The Blow by Blow Guide to Swordfighting
|> >in the Rennaissance Style_? The presenter is Mike Loades, and he is billed
|> >as a combat master at several drama schools in London. The ad I saw claims
|> >to teach one to fight with rapier and cloak, target and buckler (target has
|> >me a bit confused and I can't help but wonder if targe was meant instead).

Nope, "target" is correct.  It's a larger, lighter shield, used much as one
would use a buckler.

|> >In my area there is a large following of fencers recreating the Italian
|> >Rennaissance style, and I am considering dusting off the masque and foil.
|> >This video sounds good, but I'd like to hear a review of it from fencers
|> >before spending the money.
|> 

I liked it.  While it is aimed at 'stage' fencers, the techniques presented
are good, and Mr Loades is careful to present the moves completely -- ie,
emphasising proper footwork and balance.  I should mention that while he 
presents brief demonstrations/lessons on the use of the cloak, target, and 
buckler, the secondary weapon of choice in the video is the dagger.

The video also goes into quite a bit of history on the weapons, and other,
non-combat-related notes (like how to properly wear a rapier, how to sit and
stand, how to walk, etc.).

--Craig

Craig McLaughlin  /  cpm00@ras.amdahl.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Recurve Bows (was Primitive FireArms)
Date: 9 Jan 93 00:01:23
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
	<1993Jan1.210144.1@camins.camosun.bc.ca>
	<1993Jan7.033018.10797@reed.edu> <1993Jan08.181033.3424@microsoft.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.intel.com
In-reply-to: robertdf@microsoft.com's message of 08 Jan 93 18:10:33 GMT


robertdf@microsoft.com (Robert Del Favero) writes:
] One comment, and a caution:
] 1. Comment - Many of the modern recurve bows I've seen on SCA archery ranges
] don't look like any of the pictures I've seen of historical recurves. 
] Graydon's original contention was that the (modern) recurves he saw at SCA
] events didn't look right, and I agree with him.

This is usually true of the better-quality modern equipment : recurves with
risers and sight windows. However, cheap fiberglass recurves have a shape
similar to some archeological remains I've seen pictures of.
--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Subject: Re: Eulogy for Axel Bandit
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:25:36 GMT

In article <469-JNEWS-2.1@smylex.UUCP> Godfrey de Shipbrook <jlee@smylex.UUCP> writes:
>
>Bearing that in mind, I have a hard time believing that he was simply
>standing around out of the way and was immediately set upon by that
>scourge of fun everywhere, the dreaded (insert diminished 7th chord
>here, sforzando-piano with crescendo) *Authenticity Police*.
>
Nonsense! The *Authenticity Police* with their funny 15th C. hats and
period truncheons generally do not exist. They are an SCA boogeyman.
The "authenticity policing" I have seen generally came from a few
terribly unhappy, rude people, who made snippy comments about others
(lack of) authenticity to insult or hurt them. Everybody else stood
around and looked mortified or commiserated with the victim of the
attack. 
	I, and a great number of other "authenticists" do stand accused
of privately making gossip about the the lack of authenticity. This
isn't so much "authenticity policing" as "authenticity prudery". 
It is also directed towards people who claim authenticity, but don't do
it right. Most authenticists cut the kid in a ratty t-tunic and jeans
some slack, as long as the kid seems to be playing their game. It's the
people who spend a lot of time and effort to make something
non-authentic that burns the authenticists up and evoke the most
unpleasant response. 

Lothar \|/
        0

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: brandon@gauss.math.brown.edu (Joshua Brandon)
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Organization: Brown University Mathematics Department
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:28:06 GMT

Tadhg wrote:
    The "core area" that I specified is certainly not the *whole*
    of "western culture", nor even the *focus* of "western culture", but it IS
    the focus of the aspects of "western culture" that we in the SCA are
    trying to emulate: the noble tourneying society of the High Middle Ages.
    
No, that *you* in the SCA are trying to emulate.  *You* can do whatever you
like; what *we* do is bound only by Corpora, which says nothing of the
sort.

			---Simon

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Drachenwald and Corpora
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:57:16 GMT

Charles the clerk writes:

  As I understand it (and I may well be wrong) the SCA will soon
  incorporate in Europe in some fashion or other, as it already has in
  Australia.

This may, in fact, be the case.  There are several "SCA, Incorporated"
spinoffs, including Canada, Australia, and the State of Rhode Island
(I *think* that RI has it's own Corporation...)

              This new corporation will presumably be governed by its own
  Board of Directors, which will produce its own legislation.  I see no
  compelling reason why SCA Europe should be bound by the Corpora
  promulgated by SCA USA.

Neither do I see any reason why it couldn't.  Corpora does not regulate
the behavior of the Board of Directors, it regulates the behavior of
the members of the Society, and the rules for Society events and it's
internal organization.

  If SCA Europe adopts a Euro-Corpora that is reasonably similar to the
  US-Corpora, then the two organizations will recognize each other as
  branches of the same Society.  I think this is desirable.

It is probable, in my opinion, that an SCA Europe would use Corpora.
For that matter, I can see no reason why the SCA US shouldn't create
a Corporation in Europe it's own self, and control it.  It's perfectly
legal for a corporation in one country toh have a wholly owned
subsidiary in another country.

Do you have any actual knowledge of the SCA, Inc.'s plans in Europe?
Enquiring minds want to know!

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: icklinck@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Ian "Rhys" Klinck)
Subject: Re: Theme Events, a good idea?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 16:23:15 GMT

In the City of Eoforwic (Toronto, Ontario, Canada), we have had one theme event
last year - "The Icelandic General Althing of 992", and it was a resounding
success.  We are planning another for this June 26, based on the Italian
Rennaissance.

Those who pre-registered for the Althing received the "Althingbok", a collection
of articles on 10th-c. Iceland - how to make the garb, customs of the time, etc.

The event was somewhat smaller than a typical local event - it attracted every
Viking in the area, though.

As far as garb goes, the Icelandic stuff is easy to make.  The Italian Ren one
is going to be a little more involved, but I'm going to go for it anyway! (Even
if I'm supposed to be an 8th-c. Welshman... I'll probably go in my seldom-seen
alternate personna, though)

My opinion on this is that theme events are GREAT, and far better serve the 
purpose the SCA claims to have (education).  However, to make them the rule
instead of the exception would:
a) be a strain on the newcomers - making all that different (and difficult!)
garb instead of just a T-tunic... not to mention a lack of exposure to the
different personnae available...

b) upset a lot of "established" people...

On the other hand, if we start with a few, people will get used to them, and we
can have more... 


These have been scattered ramblings from the mind of Rhys ap Bledri.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:52:27 EST
From: Therion <HZS@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: antipathy to fencing
 <1993Jan8.231044.7601@progress.com>
 <1993Jan10.120834.7565@news.cs.indiana.edu>

Sir Alan mentions:

>In the Museum Replicas catalog is a book that turns out to be a summary of the
>works of de Grassi, Saviolo, and Silver.  The authors don't
>seem to have looked much at primary sources but it is easy to get and
>easily applied to both fencing and armored fighting.

And Therion the sometimes-helpful pops his head into the discussion and says:

>>> isbn 0809315629
Turner, Craig.
    Methods and practice of Elizabethan swordplay. / Craig Turner and Tony
  Soper ; with a foreword by Joseph Papp. Carbondale, Southern Illinois
  University Press, c1990.
    xxiv, 139 p. ill. 23 cm.
    Includes bibliographical references (p. 129-134).
    1. Fencing -- England -- History -- 16th century. 2. Swordplay -- England
   -- History -- 16th century. 3. Dueling -- England -- History -- 16th
  century.

Good book. Check it out. (That's much more polite than stealing it).

                                           Therion duh librarian
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: TALLAN@flis.utoronto.ca (David Tallan)
Subject: guild livery
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 13:24:38 GMT

Here's a question for the collected wisdom (or knowledge) of the
Rialto.

I have been doing some research into the social/religious guilds of
the middle ages, towards starting the Gild of St. Thomas of
Canterbury here in Everwick. I have reached the point where I have
come up with a first draft of a set of ordinances for the guild.

Now, following what seems to be the standard practice of English
guilds, the ordinances call for livery hoods, to be worn at the four
annual mornspeches [meetings], the annual feast and the burial of
guild brethren and sustren.

My question is: what did these livery hoods look like? They seem to
have been quite common. Do we have any documentary/archaeological
sources that can tell us?

If anyone has any answers to these questions or questions of their
own about the Gild of St. Thomas of Canterbury I can be reached here
or via e-mail.

David Tallan (medievally known as Thomas Grozier)
David Tallan (tallan@flis.utoronto.ca)
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Even Mongols may eventually "get it".
Date: 12 Jan 93 21:56:15
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
	<DOCONNOR.93Jan9135023@potato.sedona.intel.com>
	<1993Jan10.202006.1@camins.camosun.bc.ca>
	<DOCONNOR.93Jan12215424@potato.sedona.intel.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.intel.com
In-reply-to: doconnor@sedona.intel.com's message of 12 Jan 93 21:54:24

comptec92024@camins.camosun.bc.ca writes:
] (Dennis O'Connor) writes:
] > 
] > BTW, Mongols DID get it : they got more of "it" than anyone
] > ever had, and more of "it" than anyone ever did again until
] > the British Empire and the USSR.
] > 
] > By "it" of course I mean the _real_ it : real estate !
] > 
] > And they got "it" the old fashioned way : they took it !
] ------------------------------------------------------------------------
] Yes, the Mongol did take a great deal of real estate, but it was not until
] 1404 at the battle Ankara that Timur prefected the art of dragging people
] by the ears. Although the Mongols knew the basic principle, they had 
] progressed no farther then leading people by the nose. 

This statment is a thing this SCA Mongol hasn't gotten yet. :-)
--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com