HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: richh@tigger.jvnc.net (RICHH)
Newsgroups: alt.music.pop.will.eat.itself,rec.arts.comics,talk.bizarre
Subject: ALAN MOORE KNOWS *WHAT* SCORE??
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:21:52 GMT
Reply-To: rec-arts-comics@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
Followup-To: misc.test,rec.arts.comics
Organization: JvNCnet
Originator: richh@tigger.jvnc.net
X-Punch-Line:  Kermit's undivided attention

steve@cuchmc.chem.columbia.edu (Steve Stuart) writes:

>This group, and two associated ones, showed up, sans posts.  What's
>the deal?  Are there any other fans out there?  I saw them in concert
>last spring in NYC (at the Marquee - cool club) and they put on a
>great show.  But there must be bigger PWEI fans out there than
>me...are there any plans for new album/tour/???  What other groups
>do PWEI fans like?  Have any band members done other cool stuff?  What
>use is a news group with no traffic????

All right, here's something to kick things off.
I heard a PWEI song and they kept repeating over and over
"Alan Moore knows the score."
Who *is* this guy?
I heard he had something to do with comics.
Sounds kinda weenie if you ask me.
Just curious.
From: dfo@tko.vtt.fi (Foxvog Douglas)
Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm
Subject: Re: What happened to the Iraqi Air Force?
Date: 8 Apr 92 13:07:59 GMT
Organization: VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland, Oulu

In article <15845@bunny.GTE.COM> chf0@gte.com writes:
>In article <1992Apr6.090435.6352@ousrvr.oulu.fi>, dfo@tko.vtt.fi (Foxvog Douglas) writes:
>|> >> [ If someone is approaching you ] 

>|> >In a war zone, if such a response is allowed by your Rules of Engagement
>|> >following perceived hostile action, yeah, you got the right to kill them.

>|> However this was not a war zone.  It was international waters during
>|> peacetime.  The other end of the Persian Gulf was declared a war zone.
>|> If the ship were to treat the area as such (legally or not) it should 
>|> certainly attempt to warn any civilain traffic of its decision.

>While it may be true that this was not "officially" designated a "war
>zone", it is certainly true that hostile forces were shooting at each
>other in this area, less than an hour ago.  And the Vincennes did try
>to contact the airbus, with no success.

This is horrible reasoning: an hour ago there was a fight here,
therefore i can kill anyone who comes by.  I wonder if it would hold up
in a court of law?  

Why not test it?  Why doesn't our government send
the Captain of the Vincennes to Iran for trial just as it is trying to
obtain a few Libyans for trial for also downing an airliner.  At least
in the Vincennes case it is clear who downed the plane, all that that
court needs to do is examine the reasons given for the action, the exact
details, and the legal issues.

>|> doug foxvog
>|> dfo@tko.vtt.fi   

>Curt Fennell    [   "Get DOWN off that cross, honey!       ]
>chf0@gte.com	[    Somebody needs the wood!"             ]

doug foxvog
dfo@tko.vtt.fi   
-- 
doug foxvog     
dfo@tko.vtt.fi
From: bhattadd@watt.ccs.tuns.ca
Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm
Subject: test
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:01:21 GMT

This is a test
Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm
From: areski@csd.uwo.ca (A Nait-Abdallah)
Subject: Re: Where is the new world order?
Organization: University of Western Ontario, London
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 02:19:02 GMT
Summary: Worth the wait 


In article 12484 opnsgreg@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Gregory J. Schaffer)
writes:
>In article <1992Apr6.072522.1100@rhrk.uni-kl.de>, fritsch@fsinfo.cs.uni-sb.de (Lothar Fritsch) writes...
>>I wonder where the new world order is that was announced by Bush as one of
>>the aims of the gulf war.
>>Looking at the situation, I discover the following points:
>....[some stuff deleted].....
>>- Lybia: UN tries to force Lybia to deliver two of their citizens.
>>  Did the USA ever deliver one of their citizens to other countries?
>Did a US citizen ever bomb an international flight?  

	Actually yes. On July 2, 1988 captain Will Rogers, commander
of US Navy ship ``Vincennes'', deliberately fired upon an Iranian
passenger plane flying over the  Gulf. The plane was on its routine 
scheduled flight from Bandar Abbas to Dubai. The plane blew right 
out of the sky, killing all 290 passengers and crew members on board. 
Captain Will Rogers was not tried in the US. He was decorated with
the second highest naval award in April 1990.
	The US does not trust the Libyan courts. Why should Libya
trust the US courts?

>>So what is your opinion? Where is the new world order for the gulf region?
>>
>Things take time.  It has taken Germany 40+ years to recover from it's 
>Third Reich/Cold War era, but it's been worth the wait.

	I agree. Since the US itself has done quite well (as well as the
Third Reich?) in some areas of the world (e.g. Vietnam), it will need 
at least as much time to recover. It will be most certainly worth 
the wait.

>>
>>Lothar
>>
>>--
>>Lothar Fritsch					Der gruene Punkt  -> *
>>Student der Universitaet des Saarlandes,        Diese Mail kann wiederver-
>>Fachbereich Informatik				wendet werden. Bis dahin
>>e-mail: fritsch@fsinfo.cs.uni-sb.de 		bitte nach /dev/null kopieren.
>
>Greg Schaffer

Areski
Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thursday, 9 Apr 1992 12:47:01 EDT
From: <TWZ101@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm
Subject: Re: What happened to the Iraqi Air Force?
 <1992Mar31.163136.709@desire.wright.edu>
 <1992Apr3.101923.15157@ousrvr.oulu.fi> <1992Apr5.062537.17063@anasaz>
 <1992Apr6.090435.6352@ousrvr.oulu.fi> <15845@bunny.GTE.COM>
 <1992Apr8.130759.27340@ousrvr.oulu.fi>

     Not only was there combat "in the area" about "an hour ago," but the
 Vincennes was UNDER ATTACK MINUTES BEFORE THE shootdown of the Airbus.  It
 was duelling with Iranian armed speedboats, and many things were going through
 the Captain's mind at the time of the firing:

     1.He had received a report a day before that Iranian F-14s had been moved
 to Bandar Abbas to either engage U.S. forces in the deployment or to spy
 on U.S. naval operations.  He also was told that the Iranians had refitted the
 F-14s with air-to-surface ordnance.  The Airbus was taking off from Bandar
 Abbas.

     2.He also had in mind the U.S.S. Stark, where the Captain failed to act
 quickly enough and saw 37 of his sailors die and the near loss of his ship
 to an ACCIDENTAL firing.  The Iranians had been firing on tankers all day
 in all areas of the Gulf, as well as the Iraqis.  Given the poor skills of
 both combatants, it was highly likely that either side could think it was
 targetting a tanker and actually hit a warship, ala Stark.


     3.Iranian aircraft had made attempted attacks on U.S. ships before, only
 to be scared away by warnings, search radars, or, in one case, being stuck
 by a missile (the plane was damaged but not destroyed).  An air attack was all
 too likely.

     4.A ship's Captain has his first responsibility to his crew and his vessel
 safety.  I'm sorry, but in an area where a major naval war is going on, and
 both sides are shooting at everything that floats, to see what you interpret
 as a descending aircraft speeding toward you when you know a. combat aircraft
 have been moved to where you saw it take off, and b. that side is in the
 process of attacking you, you are COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED IN FIRING.

       Certainly, the crew screwed up by misreading the data their equipment
 fed to them, and for this they should be (and were) chided.  But in acting on
 that information, the Vincennes' captain was CORRECT.

       For an even more in depth look at this tragedy, see Anthony Cordesman's
The Lessons of Modern War, Vol. II: The Iran-Iraq War.  It has a minute by
 minute account of how the whole thing unfolded.
                                                  --T.Z.--
Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines
From: jsast@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Jonathan S. Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm
Subject: Re: The World Bully
Date: 17 Apr 92 01:36:09 GMT
Followup-To: alt.flame
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

Alright gang...

	Please do us all a favor.  If you're going to discuss the merits or
demerits of the Gulf war, that's fine.  If you're going to publicly insult
each, please do the majority of us a big favor and move it into alt.flame.
Those people get a real charge out of reading that tripe.

-Jon Anderson


  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  ><>  
  Jon Anderson                                      jsast@unix.cis.pitt.edu
      "Won't you look down upon me Jesus, you gotta help me make a stand,
       You've just got to see me through another day.
       My body's aching and my time is at hand,
       And I won't make it any other way. "                 -James Taylor
  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><
From: eriks@lin.foa.se (Erik Svensson FOA2)
Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm
Subject: Re: The World Bully
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:01:27 GMT
Organization: FOA, Linkoping, Sweden

cook@vcsesu.enet.dec.com (The Cookster!) writes:


>In article <1992Apr14.020943.25349@muddcs.claremont.edu>, rwyatt@niji.claremont.edu (Robert Wyatt) writes...

(stuff deleted)

>>We have done NOTHING to even MEDIATE the war in Yugoslavia.  Why ? 

>	Because the UN is taking care of it. Watch the news, read a paper.

Also, mediation will only work if _both_ sides desire it. Since only one
side does, no go. I personally think that the US is better off by staying
out of that mess.

>>And now the UN blockade is causing millions of Iraqi civilians - who  
>>have no say in what their government does - to suffer and die.  No  
>>clean water, no electricity, no medicine, no food.

>	So, I could care less. I hope they all die very very slowly
>	and with extreme suffering. I'm supposed to give a damn? 
>	

The blockade is the only way, short of again using military force, to influence
Saddam. 

>>make sure that Saddam doesn't have the bomb - so that the Balance of  
>>Power can remain in our favor.  The US deserves to have nuclear  
>>weapons, because we are responsible...  The Iraqi's are not...  This  
>>may be true, but who are we to determine who deserves what. 

>	We're the biggest mofo on the block, that's who we are, and
>	we can do just about anything we damn well please, and if
>	you don't like it, good. Suffer.

>>Let's face it - the US is a cowardly country, hell-bent on world  
>>domination.  Anyone that supports US military policy ought to take a  
>>very close look at what he/she is really supporting.  And if, after  
>>careful analysis, you still support the military, label yourself a  
>>cowardly murderer.  You are nothing more !

You're taking mighty  big for a guy sitting in a country without an potential
enemy as a neighbour or even close. From were I sit there used to be an
aggressive enemy less than a one (1) hour flight away. That state was a 
dictatorship without regard for human rights or anything else. That state
was the USSR (as you might have guessed). It's easy (though stupid) to feel
as you do,maybe, when the enemy is half a world away. I've seen the misery
and squalor that was the Soviet Union. I've met people unwilling to speak to
me because the KGB might find out and take away their apartment, their job
and so on. I've seen queues several hundred meters long for a simple thing like
soap. I've had the one soviet friend I had sentenced to 10 years hard labor for
"anti-soviet activity". He had joined a Helsingfors-treaty group working for 
human rights.
I'VE BEEN THERE! And I'm willing to fight to keep that from happening here.

Also, I'm grateful to USA, Nato and the West who took up the gauntlet and 
defended the free world. Without them I wouldn't be sitting here, nor would 
--
Erik Svensson			Research Officer
Guided Weapons Division		National Defense Research Establishment (FOA)
Stockholm			Sweden

net.address: 	eriks@fenix.lin.foa.se

&& This .sig is protected by SIGinfectant(tm). Look for the &&, a sure sign of
quality .sig protection. &&
From: cook@vcsesu.enet.dec.com (The Cookster!)
Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm
Subject: Re: The World Bully
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:33:54 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Apr14.201314.25079@muddcs.claremont.edu>, rwyatt@niji.claremont.edu (Robert Wyatt) writes...

	[anti-American drooling deleted]

	If you don't like it, you could always move to a netural country.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
 Peter R. Cook			Mystic Powers new EP - Life in the Fast Lane 
 Digital Equipment Corp.	now available. Inquire within.

 _   /|				"1984 has past, forget about Big Brother,
 \'o.O'   AcK!			 Welcome to the 90's where the government's
 =(___)=			 your mother!" - Scatterbrain
    U
 Flames not welcome. Serious inquires only. Opinions are mine, all mine!
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Xref: sparky alt.desert-storm:877 talk.politics.misc:18049 misc.headlines:3364
From: fritsch@fsinfo.cs.uni-sb.de (Lothar Fritsch)
Subject: Where is the new world order?
Organization: Fachschaft Informatik, U of Saarland, FRG
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 07:25:22 GMT

I wonder where the new world order is that was announced by Bush as one of
the aims of the gulf war.
 Looking at the situation, I discover the following points:

 - Kuwait: no democracy at all, same people have the power & the money
   who had it before the whole mess
 - Kurds: one step closer to exodus. But anyway, did the world notice the
   chemical attack against Kurds in Iraq some years ago?
 - Saudi Arabia: no democracy
 - Persian Gulf: one of the biggest ecological catastrophes man ever made
 - Turkey: as they prooved as a reliable NATO member they may violate human
   rights and bomb curds as they like
 - Israel: just as violent against arabian people as ever
 - Lybia: UN tries to force Lybia to deliver two of their citizens.
   Did the USA ever deliver one of their citizens to other countries?

and, just in addition, american and british politicians just talk around a
new glorious military action in the gulf region, right in election time.
 That just reminds me of a conspiration theory between the CIA and Saddam
I read or seen somewhere.

So what is your opinion? Where is the new world order for the gulf region?


Lothar

--
Lothar Fritsch					Der gruene Punkt  ->  *
Student der Universitaet des Saarlandes,        Diese Mail kann wiederver-
Fachbereich Informatik				wendet werden. Bis dahin
e-mail: fritsch@fsinfo.cs.uni-sb.de 		bitte nach /dev/null kopieren.
Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines
From: AIESEC - Ohio State <aiesecrs@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: Where is the new world order?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 02:32:05 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.072522.1100@rhrk.uni-kl.de> you write:
>I wonder where the new world order is that was announced by Bush as one of
>the aims of the gulf war.
> Looking at the situation, I discover the following points:
>
> - Kuwait: no democracy at all, same people have the power & the money
>   who had it before the whole mess

Elections are scheduled next October.


> - Kurds: one step closer to exodus. But anyway, did the world notice the
>   chemical attack against Kurds in Iraq some years ago?

Of course we did.

> - Saudi Arabia: no democracy

We were not fighting for Saudi, we were fighting for the free flow of energy at
market prices.  Why don't you ask Eastern Europe about the necessity for cheap 
oil.?

> - Persian Gulf: one of the biggest ecological catastrophes man ever made

And we still cleaned it up.  Hooray for mankind.

> - Turkey: as they prooved as a reliable NATO member they may violate human
>   rights and bomb curds as they like

Kurds bomb them.  I'm sure they don't like it either way.  Your statement 
against NATO just proves it does not matter your nationality when the label 
"ass" is applied.

> - Israel: just as violent against arabian people as ever

See above response.  Israel is the free world's only true friend in the region.

> - Lybia: UN tries to force Lybia to deliver two of their citizens.
>   Did the USA ever deliver one of their citizens to other countries?

The USA never took any of their citizens. And yes, we deport criminals to other 
countries all the time.  Most of them just happen to be on the North American 
continent, which is why you rarely hear of them.  Also, we just deported an IRA 
terrorist to England, before the Libyan news.  It was not politically 
motivated.

>and, just in addition, american and british politicians just talk around a
>new glorious military action in the gulf region, right in election time.
> That just reminds me of a conspiration theory between the CIA and Saddam
>I read or seen somewhere.
>

I have rarely seen any Desert Storm gloating by American politians.  As to 
European politicians, I don't live their so I don't make unjustified 
assersians.  We regard war as brutal and disgusting but sometimes excusable.  
We don't start wars, we just end them.

>So what is your opinion? Where is the new world order for the gulf region?
>
>
>Lothar
>

I feel much safer under the New World Order now, then I ever did under the Cold
War when your friends in the Warsaw Pact had so much power.  Or do you regard 
yourself as Saintly, and blanketly attack any violent solutions to violent 
problems as if you somehow were not part of this world.  Would you support a 
war against Hitler or Stalin if they started it.  What about even if they did 
not start any war?  Something to think about.

Ryan C. Scharfy
The Ohio State University
--
Xref: sparky alt.desert-storm:854 talk.politics.misc:17361 misc.headlines:3230
From: rwyatt@niji.claremont.edu (Robert Wyatt)
Subject: Re: The World Bully
Organization: Harvey Mudd College
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 22:33:51 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.163451.2248@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>  
cook@vcsesu.enet.dec.com (The Cookster!) writes:

> 	If you don't like it, you could always move to a netural  
country.

You're right Peter...  I could...  But, why should I have to ?   
Perhaps I would like to see THIS country change for the better (as I  
know a lot of us would).  History books tell us (for whatever that is  
worth) that we were, at one time, an honorable nation.
Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm
From: rwyatt@niji.claremont.edu (Robert Wyatt)
Subject: Re: The World Bully
Organization: Harvey Mudd College
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 03:14:45 GMT

> 	I cannot respect anyone who insults people instead of
> 	debating the issue. If you want to get into a mud slinging
> 	contest, sorry, I will not bring myself to that level of 
> 	immaturity.

Peter-
You already did with such assinine comments as:

So, I could care less. I hope they all die very very slowly
>	and with extreme suffering. I'm supposed to give a damn? 

and...

We're the biggest mofo on the block, that's who we are, and
>	we can do just about anything we damn well please, and if
>	you don't like it, good. Suffer.

Are you trying to tell me that those comments indicate one ounce of  
intelligence.  It was I who was stooping to your level !

Robert	 
Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm
From: donald@sq.sq.com (Donald Teed)
Subject: Re: Where is the new world order? (ecological disaster)
Organization: SoftQuad Inc.
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 13:44:03 GMT

AIESEC - Ohio State <aiesecrs@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> writes:

>In article <1992Apr6.072522.1100@rhrk.uni-kl.de> you write:

>> - Persian Gulf: one of the biggest ecological catastrophes man ever made

>And we still cleaned it up.  Hooray for mankind.

Sounds like a dishwashing detergent commercial.  Did little
SOS pads bring the marine organisms back to life?  Hooray for
believing it all.  I am tired of hearing this pet phrase "clean up"
when the topic of the environment is under discussion.  The
environment is not like a clean floor that someone tracked up.
It is an incredibly complex ecosystem, together with the geography,
climate, and chemistry that make life possible.  When we have
synthesized hundreds of chemicals and altered places where
people, animals, vegetation, etc., live - there is an incredibly
complex and possibly irreversible change that has taken place,
in a way that no natural event could duplicate.  The responsibility
for these disasters is not limited to Exxon, Hussein or the
U.S. military.  Every day disasters in slow motion are occurring -
and there is no quick fix.  Don't use the words "clean up" for
something that is not domestic and not industrial.  The natural
world was never clean or dirty.

--Donald Teed
Xref: sparky alt.desert-storm:859 talk.politics.misc:17536 misc.headlines:3252
From: dfo@tko.vtt.fi (Foxvog Douglas)
Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm
Subject: Re: Where is the new world order?
Date: 10 Apr 92 05:33:01 GMT
Organization: VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland, Oulu

In article <1992Apr8.162241.8560@acsu.buffalo.edu> opnsgreg@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Gregory J. Schaffer) writes:
>In article <1992Apr6.072522.1100@rhrk.uni-kl.de>, fritsch@fsinfo.cs.uni-sb.de (Lothar Fritsch) writes...
>>I wonder where the new world order is that was announced by Bush as one of
>>the aims of the gulf war.
>> Looking at the situation, I discover the following points:
>> ...
>> - Lybia: UN tries to force Lybia to deliver two of their citizens.
>>   Did the USA ever deliver one of their citizens to other countries?
>Did a US citizen ever bomb an international flight?  

Well the CIA bombed an Air Cubana flight over Venezuela in the '70s.
The guy who (apparently) did it was held by the Venezuelans until the
CIA sprung him.  He later turned up working in El Salvador routing
weapons to the Contras through US military channels while operating
under another name.  He disappeared again after being identified.  

I don't know if he was a US citizen or a Cuban exile run by the CIA to
whom the US had not gotten around to granting citizenship to yet.
Anyway, it is the same thing, the US's intelligence agency's agent
(officer?) is accused of bombing an international flight just as Libyan
intelligence agency's agents are.  In both cases it is alleged to be a
government action, the citizenship of the operative carrying out the
mission is immaterial.

>>Lothar Fritsch					Der gruene Punkt  ->  *
>>Student der Universitaet des Saarlandes,        Diese Mail kann wiederver-
>>Fachbereich Informatik				wendet werden. Bis dahin
>>e-mail: fritsch@fsinfo.cs.uni-sb.de 		bitte nach /dev/null kopieren.

>Greg Schaffer

doug foxvog
dfo@tko.vtt.fi
-- 
doug foxvog     
dfo@tko.vtt.fi   
Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm
From: donald@sq.sq.com (Donald Teed)
Subject: Re: Stupid Question
Organization: SoftQuad Inc.
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 13:42:12 GMT

jsast@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Jonathan S. Anderson) writes:


>Here's a dumb question which has always intrigued my curiosity:

>If Saddam was building up troops on the Saudi border and was threatening
>that country (as satellite photos showed), why didn't he just invade that
>country before the UN buildup was so great that he couldn't do anything
>about it?  It took the UN coalition a fair amount of time to get the
>troop buildup.  He could have invaded Saudi at his leisure.  
>-Jon Anderson

From the analysis given by Gywne Dyer, the military historian, on the
the CBC's Journal, on the day after Kuwait was invaded, Iraq would not
have been able to stand up to the Air Force of Saudia Arabia.  In the
desert terrain there is no cover from the sky and therefore
whoever has enough power there can control the other's advances.  He
mentioned about how far they could have gotten before being stopped,
and at that point there would be no defensive position possible - 
so basically, yes they could have done massive damage, but it
would have been suicide in terms of a military strategy.  Saudia
Arabia is a much larger country than Kuwait, and they have had
a very large Air Force for at least two decades (in the late seventies
I remember seeing a program describing it as being the world's fourth largest).

--Donald Teed