HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: toma@cray.com (Thomas R. Arneberg)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.sys.cadence
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:06:25 CDT

In article <Apr.1.16.56.14.1992.24825@pilot.njin.net> limonce@pilot.njin.net (Tom Limoncelli +1 908 754 1082) writes:
>lewis@ssigv.UUCP (Don Lewis) writes:
>
>>In article <dfs.701983768@wesley> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:
>>>In <1992Mar30.181049.26775@uunet.uu.net> pas@jupiter.ic.cmc.ca (Peter
>>>Stokes) writes:
>>>
>>>>Call For Discussion:  Creation of comp.sys.cadence 
>>>>...
>>>>        Name: comp.sys.cadence
>>>
>Considering the complete LACK of traffic on the current comp.lsi
>newsgroups, why create this newsgroup?  Is anyone else a bit tired of
>newsgroups being created to foster traffic, rather than use the
>newsgroups that currently exist?
>
>I really think a newsgroup should only be created as the result of a
>split (to reorganize or better represent a current newsgroup) or to
>cover an honestly uncovered topic doesn't fit anyplace else.
>-- 
>Tom Limoncelli -- limonce@pilot.njin.net

We need comp.sys.cadence because it would cover topics that are *NOT* a
proper subset of comp.lsi.cad (or any other group that currently exists). 

A group for Cadence would be a cross-section of these subjects:
  - sysadmin (installing Cadence software; fixing license problems)
  - programming (writing SKILL code to automate or customize the environment)
  - training questions (evaluation of training courses & tutorials)
  - user questions (preferred design methodologies, online verif., etc.)
  - simulation (netlisting, input stimuli)
  - application features (what do we gain/lose by upgrading now?)
  - coordinating new tool feature requests from several companies at once
  - Cadence user group reports and summaries
  - etc., etc., etc...

It would be very nice to be able to lump all of the above topics into a
single newsgroup. Would anyone care to suggest which current group that
should be, if we don't create comp.sys.cadence?!

Voting YES,
  - Tom A.
---------------------------------------------+------------------------------
;-) I'd rather be ____  Thomas R. Arneberg   | Inet: toma@cray.com
:-) singing in a |____| Senior IC Design Eng.| UUCP: ...!uunet!cray!toma
:-) Barbershop  _|   _| Cray Research, Inc.  | CLAIM TO FAME: Loni Anderson 
:-) Quartet!   (_)  (_) Chippewa Falls, Wisc.|   went to my high school 
---------------------------------------------+------------------------------
From: jkim@jingoro.Eng.Sun.COM (Jun Kim)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 9 Apr 92 18:11:24 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: jingoro

In article <1992Apr9.140222.11884@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU writes:
>In <axolotl.702613581@syzygy> axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair) writes:
>
>>Actually, we are.  Why should we consider the opinions of the uninformed?
>>Why should people who don't know anything about manga tell us what it
>>is and isn't, and where it should fit in the (already totally illogical)
>>namespace?
>
>Well, I live in a house with 10,000 comics which I don't own so I guess
>I'm uninformed. 

If, for the sake of argument only, manga was noticeably different from comics,
then 10,000 comics wouldn't help in the understanding of manga. Now, since
that premise is under discussion, we might not really agree on whether
a normal or even devoted (10,000!) comics reader really understands the 
nature of manga.  I guess I could liken it to how someone who reads tons
of novels/magazines would not be an expert on the world of comics. (I know
it's not a perfect analogy, but stick with me here).

>The _charter_ for this group refers to manga as a type of
>comic book. 

This was addressed in a previous post, so I won't repeat it, except
for saying that comics was probably easier to swallow than
"sequential art" although the former term might have been a bit
imprecise.

>By accepting this charter proposal the supporters of the group
>are telling us (the uninformed) that manga are comics.

"Uninformed" might have been a tough word... maybe "underexposed"?  Seriously,
if you knew somebody who was "underexposed" to comics, would you truly 
expect them to understand why you're so devoted?

>
>And as for 'telling you' what you group is and is not. I get a vote even
>if I don't read the group. And I think that manga, judging from the
>description in the proposed charter, are comic books. 

Please take the time to really find out if your experience with manga ends
with the charter.  If you don't know what you're really voting on, it seems 
that you're just voting out of spite.  If you take the time to find out
and still feel the way you do, no one can say anything.


--
Jun Kim                                         jkim@jingoro.Eng.Sun.Com
Sun Microsystems
Mountain View, CA                               "Oboete imasu ka..."
From: sainrat@irit.irit.fr (Pascal SAINRAT)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD:  comp.sys.cadence
Date: 8 Apr 92 08:34:54 GMT
Organization: IRIT-UPS, Toulouse, France


We are very interested in the creation of this newsgroup. We use Valid for four
years and have VHLD for two months. First experiences with vhdl tools cause some
problems that can be resolved by the presence of such a group.
I think that Cadence employees MUST participate in such a group and I hope they
will.
Moderation doesn't seem useful to me. I think that if there is moderation, it
must not be done by Cadence itself.
From: dbriggs@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Daniel Briggs)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD for new IMAGE PROCESSING newsgroup
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:34:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: zia.1992Apr13.193438.5155
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM

In article <1992Apr13.155918.47951@uvmark.uucp> todd@uvmark.uucp
 (Todd Cooper) writes:
>I think comp.image-proc would be best.
>[...]
>When do we vote?

Hang on!  'Tis a tad premature yet.  First of all, I don't see a consensus
on the name.  Second of all, I'm not ready to concede the fight for the
name space.  (I just posted a general call for reinforcements from sci.*
groups that I thought would be interested.  :)  There may or may not be a
need and support for sci.imaging.  Or we may want to lump everything into
comp.image-proc, or you computer jocks may just want to leave us indirect
imagers out in the cold and talk about image-plane "niner" filters.  (The
last would be a bit of a shame, IMHO.)

And perhaps most importantly, I don't recall seeing a "real" RFD in
news.announce.newgroups.  If there wasn't one, we've been taking a straw
poll so far, and someone should get on the ball and start the process
officially.  In particular, *we need a charter*.  I'll help write one,
and I certainly want some input on it, but you don't want to leave it to
me exclusively, since I seem to be on the edge of the group's range of
interests.  I'd write the charter I want to see for sci.imaging, which
I suspect would be a tad broad for what most of you want.

I will be willing to act as a clearing house for charter suggestions, if we
take the details to email.  Maybe I can get a real exploder setup, but at
the least I can forward any message on the topic I get to a mailing list a
few times a day.  As a kindness to me, please begin the subject of all such
mail messages with "IMAGING:".  For starters, write me, and tell me that
you want to be put on the discussion list.  This will be a short term
discussion list, and will self destruct after the vote on the new group(s).
-- 
| Daniel Briggs  (dbriggs@nrao.edu)                      |        USPA B-14993
| New Mexico Tech / National Radio Astronomy Observatory |            DoD #387
| P.O. Box O / Socorro, NM 87801   (505) 835-7391        |
Support the League for Programming Freedom  (info from league@prep.ai.mit.edu)
From: jkim@jingoro.Eng.Sun.COM (Jun Kim)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.arts.manga...etc.....
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:07:03 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: jingoro

In article <rdippold.702858601@qualcom> rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
>
>And one more question.  If manga and comics have the equivalent
>meaning, what's the use of any specific manga group?  Just put it all
>in rec.arts.comics. 

I think the volume in r.a.comics pretty much allows for a consensus that
a new group is needed.  The discussion, though, has been floundering over
the basic question of the definition of manga.  The problem exists, I feel,
since people are basically unable to see eye to eye about this
definition.  If someone considers one side to be correct, then manga would
fall under the definition of "type of comic".  Another viewpoint is that
the terms are equivalent (like "cars" and "autos"  -- yeah, I know
it's bad, Duane)  but the discussions topics would be different enough
to merit two distinct groups. (Not a sub group).



--
Jun Kim                                         jkim@jingoro.Eng.Sun.Com
Sun Microsystems
Mountain View, CA                               "Oboete imasu ka..."
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:56:31 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (David C Blume) writes:

>lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
>>....  Manga are comics, so they should be under rec.arts.comics.

    Just to clear some things up here, Lazlo was talking about the
sub-hierarchy for all discussion pertaining to comic books as a literary
genre, which haoppens to be called rec.arts.comics.

>Manga rivals American comics in both volume (seen a Shonen Sunday?) and
>quality. (Some would argue that it surpasses, rather than "rivals.")

    So? We aren't debating quality or marketing or anything like that
here. This is about the appropriate name for the group.

>For a fact, manga is *not* a sub-set of comics.  The most logical (or
>at least the fairest, with respect to the Japanese) option would be
>to divide rec.arts.comics into

    No one is trying to make manga a sub-set of comics, or even
subordinate to western comics. Please try and keep to the subject of the
debate. 

>rec.arts.comics.[western|american|<non-anime>] and
>rec.arts.comics.manga.

>This is not going to happen.  There's too much momentum already.  The
>newsgroup that has a chance of being created is "rec.arts.manga." People
>in rec.arts.comics will not want to change its name to distinguish
>it from manga.

    Why should rec.arts.comics have to change? And frankly, interms of
momentum, you seem to be split here with the correct name for the group.
BTW, have you posted the RFD to rec.arts.comics yet?

>rec.arts.comics.manga is about as logical as soc.music.guitar.bass or
>soc.music.bass.guitar.  There are obvious similarities between basses and
>guitars, but they are different instruments, played differently and not
>derivitives of each other.  Don't be fooled by such similarites.  A
>new subscriber would not look under one to find the other.  S/he would
>look at the *same* level.  Especially when other instruments are at that
>level.  (As *.anime is at the same level as *.animation.)  

    If you are talking about the new user, then s/he will probably try
to first understand the hierarchies. And many might not even know what
manga is. I'm sure there are many whi have no idea what anime is. If the
group were called rec.arts.comics.manga at least those who have know
idea what manga is will be able to discern that it has something to do
with comics and comic books.

>The need exists for *.manga, and rec.arts.manga is an appropriate name, IMHO.

    Until you can show why this group shouldn't be part of the
rec.arts.comics.* hierarchy, I don't think it will pass. The most
appropriate name, IMHO, is rec.arts.comics.manga.

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | "When you get right down do it there is only
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   |  one thing that matters here...
 Mac Database Developer     |                       I Have Mob Ties!"
 Dartmouth Medical School   |      -Mario Cuomo (played by Phil Hartman)
From: yprakash@mayo.edu (Y. S. Prakash)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD for new IMAGE PROCESSING newsgroup
Date: 15 Apr 92 18:46:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: bmw.1992Apr15.184607.17297
Reply-To: yprakash@mayo.edu
Organization: Mayo Graduate School / Mayo Foundation Rochester MN

I thinka sci.imaging newsgroup would be fun to read.

				Y.S. Prakash
				Mayo Graduate School

---
 
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: frnk@cs1.bradley.edu (Paul Ondercin)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.music.enya
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: na
Date:  8 Apr 92 18:37:55 GMT

In <1992Apr8.154401.6252@cbnews.cb.att.com> nrc@cbnews.cb.att.com (N. Richard Caldwell) writes:

>My impression was that the response to this has been overwhelmingly
>negative.  Part of the idea of a discussion period is to weed out
>ideas like this one. 

2) The name and charter of the proposed group and whether it will be moderated
or unmoderated... should be discussed during the discussion period. If there is
no general agreement on these points among the proponents of a new group at the
end of 30 days of discussion... Once that is done, a new, more specific proposal
may be made, going back to step 1) above.
   The discussion is not to weed out ideas. That is what the vote is for. 
I also have plenty of mail from people who are for the creation for this group.

   I have adhered to the guidelines for the creation of a newsgroup. The only
negative postes I have seen are only to the creation of the group. Therefor,
I am now writing the CFV.


>Warm up your NO votes, folks.  Let's set a record for lop-sided NO
>results.
   How very professional of you.


	 Frnk! :>
--
_____________________________________________________________________________.
!________Paul Ondercin, owner of "THE MACHINE", a 486 of epic power!__________!
|frnk@bucs1.bradley.edu   frnk@buhub.bradley.edu   frnk@camelot.bradley.edu   |
|frnk@cssun1.bradley.edu  frnk@cssun2.bradley.edu  am417@cleveland.freenet.Edu| 
!_________ponder@heartland.bradley.edu_____________ae198@yfn.ysu.edu__________!
!___Frnkfrnkfrnkfrnkfrnk!!!___|_Just a little penguin that can only say Frnk!_!
!_*YOU* think you've got problems?_Ever worry about being eaten by a walrus?__!
Date: 16 Apr 92 09:11:05 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: MANGA STRAW POLL: rec.arts.manga wins 98 - 51.
Keywords: merry, easter
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

bn510@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Matthew L. High) writes:
 >Votes for rec.arts.manga (91):
 >From: jwp@panix.com (JongWoo Park)
 >From: sh941727@ccnyvme.bitnet  "Jongwoo Park a.k.a Lupin IV"

These look like duplicate votes to me.  (But I suppose Jongwoo Park
could be a common name;  I get occasionally mail asking if I'm Ian
Sinclair the politician or Iain Sinclair the author, whoever he is.)

If they are duplicates, their invalidation doesn't noticeably affect
the outcome, which speaks for itself.


--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: victor@watson.ibm.com (Victor Miller)
Subject: Re: CALL FOR DISCUSSION: COMP.COMPRESSION.THEORY.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 14:55:04 GMT
Reply-To: victor@watson.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM, T.J. Watson Research Center
Followup-To: news.groups

In line with previous suggestions, it would probably be best if there
were three groups:

comp.compression: for general discussions about compression and FAQ
postings.

comp.compression.programs: for specific questions and answers like:
where can I get PKZIP verison x, etc.

comp.compression.theory: With purpose as in the CFD.  It would be nice
if this were moderated, however, one hopes that the 'theory' in the
title would scare off those who really aren't interested in theory.

--
			Victor S. Miller
			Internet: victor@watson.ibm.com
			IBM, TJ Watson Research Center
Date:  9 Apr 92 09:12:57 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
 >    Ok, fine. Let's not look at it from the view of the USA, which has
 >the majority of UseNet site and readers to date, but instead look at it
 >from the Canadian view or the UK view, which have the second and third
 >largest number of UseNet sites.

You got any data on the UK having the third largest number of sites?
I do nationality-based news statistics, and (to take one example)
Australia has four times more Usenet posters per capita than in the
UK.

As for what bearing this has on rec.arts.comics.manga, you tell me.


 >    Again, you are speaking for others. How do you know what their best
 >interests are? Have the elected you to be their spokesperson?

It was discussed in detail some time ago.  Nobody who posts to alt.manga
is objecting to rec.arts.manga;  it seems to be you, Lazlo, and a couple of
(understandably) confused news.groups lurkers.


--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga vs. rec.arts.comics.manga
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:23:48 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

jkim@jingoro.Eng.Sun.COM (Jun Kim) writes:

>In article <3lrjm_p@lynx.unm.edu> lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
>>If you folks think the "Japan"ness of the media is more important than
>>their "animation"ness or "comic"ness, you should run a vote to create a
>>rec.arts.japan hierarchy for rec.arts.japan.anime and rec.arts.japan.manga.

>But the "manga style" is popping up all over the world, so this might be
>too resistricting.

    Just for the "uninformed", pray tell what is the "manga style"?

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | Common Taxpayer Q&A: Q. If I use the 1040 how
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   | do I indicate my preference for the Elvis stamp?
 Mac Database Developer     | A. You write THIN ELVIS or FAT ELVIS in the box
 Dartmouth Medical School   | "Spouse's Social Security #." -Dave Barry
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: magundi@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (john macdonald)
Subject: Re: No New Enya News Group!!
Organization: University of Western Ontario, London, Ont.
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 18:07:06 GMT

In article <frnk.702743924@cs1.bradley.edu> frnk@cs1.bradley.edu (Paul Ondercin) writes:
>In <1992Apr7.232621.7778@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Kamchatka Charlie (kamchar@ibm.cl.msu.edu) writes:
>>                                            There's an alt group for that
>>already; if you can't get it at your site, FTP it.
>   The alt group was created as a direct result of the rec.music.enya RFD. If

No, alt.music.enya was not created as a direct result of the RFD.


john
From: naglep@topaz.ucq.edu.au
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD for new IMAGE PROCESSING newsgroup
Date: 15 Apr 92 09:50:14 AET
Organization: University of Central Queensland, Australia



   I'm also in support of forming a newsgroup specifically for Image
Processing.

   The name should be either sci.imag-pro or comp.imag-pro
( Though I favour calling it sci.imag-pro; optical image processing
for example is still in use, and it most definitely has nothing to do
with computers. )

   The newsgroup should definitely be unmoderated, at least to begin with.

   

Paul Nagle  FFF ( Fuzzy Faced Fizzicist )

       

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|    ._____.            | Paul Nagle, Physics Honours Student   _--_|\     |
|    |_[_]_| University |                                     -/------*-   |
|    \==*==/ of Central | email :                              \_.--._/    |
|     `-.-'  Queensland |                                            v     |
|                       | vax/vms   naglep@topaz.ucq.edu.au                |
|                       |                                                  |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (David C Blume)
Subject: Re: The rec.arts.{comics.}manga wars continue
Organization: Loral Western Development Labs
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 22:01:54 GMT

nrc@cbnews.cb.att.com (N. Richard Caldwell) writes:
>dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (David C Blume) writes:
>> 
>> Good point.  The group for the discussion of western comics should be
>> on the same level as the group for the discussion of asian comics.  Currently
>> the group for the discussion of western comics is rec.arts.comics.  That
>> can change, and if so, we'd be happy to move the proposed rec.arts.manga
>> too.
>
>When did r.a.comics become restricted to only western comics?
>[or is it because manga fans don't want to discuss manga there?]

I was speaking practically.  I doubt someone in r.a.c. would kick me out
if I posted about an English translation of a manga, or maybe even about
the manga itself.

This is *not* an issue of prejudice.  It has been suggested manga fans do not
want to associate with comic fans.  This is not true.  (Can't speak for
everyone, of course. :-))

The mediums *are* similar.  However, if a manga fan were going to post,
(before the creation of alt.manga,) the post would go to rec.arts.anime
or soc.culture.japan.  These are the readers who would have a clue to the
subject.  That is the reason r.a.c does not get manga posts.  It is *not*
prejudice.

We could "hierchize" the groups anyway we want.  It is just my opinion that
these two froms of the medium belong side-by-side, be it:

rec.arts.comics
rec.arts.manga

or

rec.arts.books.pict.comics.domestic-usa
rec.arts.books.pict.comics.manga

Please don't be offended that I feel that domestic comics and manga
should be at the same hierarchical level.  To me, it's very intuitive.

--David
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| David Blume            | When you're holding a hammer, everything |
| dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com | looks like a nail. --Anonymous.          |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: misc.multilevel
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:32:47 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.

What happened to this group? Is it still around?
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu (David Wald)
Subject: Re: rec.arts.manga...etc.....
Organization: Laboratory for Computer Science, MIT
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 20:22:41 GMT

In article <44637@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> wai@sage.cc.purdue.edu
(Benjamin Wai) writes:
>	Just a moment of thought...
>	Should the comics newsgroup be Rec.arts.books.comics anyway?
>	Comics ARE books, aren't they? Eh?

Not all are.  For example, before it split off, comic strips were fair
game for discussion in rec.arts.comics.

-David
--
============================================================================
David Wald                                           wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu
   "Blessed are the peacocks, for they shall be called sonship of God"
             -- Matt 5:9, from a faulty QuickVerse 2.0
============================================================================