From: weissh@nextadm.cc.vt.edu (Hugh Weiss)
Newsgroups: vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks
Subject: Re: Installing Pathworks for VMS on Mac
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:48:30 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computing Center - Distributed Computing Group

In article <15058@umd5.umd.edu> bleau@umdsp.umd.edu writes:

> MSA V1.1 (the Pathworks for the Mac) is available through the ESL.
> Something tells me, though, that you have to do something on the Mac side
> to get it to be part of the Pathworks scheme of things.  What is this?

In addition to all the media/doc considerations, you must buy a license
from DEC for each Mac that you want to run Pathworks on.

> Question #1: Is a separate media (diskette?) needed for the Mac to get it 
> to boot or otherwise start communicating with the Pathworks s/w on the VAX?

Nope.  To install the client software on a Mac, you use AppleTalk (which
all Macs have got by default in the system) to connect to the VAX and copy
the software across the network rather than copying it from diskettes.

> Currently the Mac's are running TCP/IP and doing it rather nicely.  I'd
> like my users to be able to continue to access other systems using TELNET,
> FTP, etc. after Pathworks is installed.  I'm told, however, that Pathworks
> for the Mac uses Decnet and/or Appletalk and can't use TCP/IP as a 
> transport(?) layer.

You will continue to be able to use TCP/IP concurrently with all the 
Pathworks applications.  MacX which is part of the Pathworks software
for the Mac can use either DECnet or TCP/IP to communicate with the
VAX host.  (Of course this means that the VAX must be running TCP/IP
software of some kind.)

> Question #2: Is this statement true?  That I cannot use TCP/IP to
> communicate between the Mac and the VAX Pathworks?

The only part of Pathworks that can use TCP/IP is MacX.  All the other
appilcations want DECnet, AppleTalk, or LAT/Cterm.

> Even if it is, is there any way to use some TCP/IP package in parallel
> with Pathworks on the Mac to still provide TELNET and FTP capabilities?

Yep.  No problem running Pathworks and TCP/IP appications in parallel
at long as you go through MacTCP (provided with Pathworks) and don't
use an application that tries to go right to the Ethernet card.

> I don't know much about Appletalk protocols, but it appears, from reading 
> the installation instructions, that I have to have the Decnet/Appletalk 
> gateway running on the VAX in order to do much of anything else.

It depends on your setup.  If you have Macs only on Ethernet, then you will
probably not need the AppleTalk-DECnet gateway (ADG).  The ADG is *only*
useful if you have Macs on LocalTalk segments sitting behind AppleTalk
Internet Routers.  You can ONLY talk AppleTalk across LocalTalk.  So in
this case you talk AppleTalk across the LocalTalk segment, throught the
AppleTalk Internet Router, across the Ethernet to the ADG on the VAX 
where it is pulled off the wire, converted to DECnet and put back on the
wire for transmission to the ultimate DECnet destination.  The ADG allows
your LocalTalk connected Macs to talk to DECnet hosts even though they
themselves cannot talk DECnet.  There is an AppleTalk-LAT gateway that
functions the same way for communicating with DEC systems talking LAT.
Again, the AppleTalk-LAT gateway is only useful if you have LocalTalk
connected Macs that want to talk to DEC systems using LAT.

> Question #3: How does Appletalk fit into the scheme of things here?  Does 
> the Mac talk Appletalk, Pathworks on the VAX translates that to Decnet,
> rebroadcasts it, and is picked up by another VAX with Pathworks, where the
> disk/mail/print service is carried out?  Or does the Mac somehow send 
> Decnet packets directly?

It depends on what service you are trying to use.  File sharing and printing
use AppleTalk.  Mail uses DECnet or AppleTalk.  MacX uses DECnet, TCP/IP or 
AppleTalk.  MacTerminal uses LAT or AppleTalk.  NetCopy uses DECNET.  The
Mac sends the DECnet, LAT or TCP/IP packets directly if it's on the Ethernet.
If it's on LocalTalk behind an AppleTalk Internet Router, it sends 
everything in AppleTalk and relies on the AppleTalk-LAT and the 
AppleTalk-DECnet gateways to convert the packets to the proper format for
the destination host.  If you want to talk TCP/IP and the Mac is on 
LocalTalk, you will also need to buy a third party hardware AppleTalk-TCP/IP 
gateway like a Fastpath or GaterBox.

> We don't have Appletalk currently running, BTW, so this seems like a lot 
> of extra setup.

Actually none at all.  AppleTalk is built into the system.  Click a 
button in a Control Panel, restart the Mac and you're off.

> Last and final: Question #4: Am I using the right product to provide
> these services for my users?  What I'd like is file and print service, 
> mail service, an X server for the Mac, and some TCP/IP capability.  

Yes, I think you are using the right product.

> Pathworks is 4 out of 5, but is there something else that gives all of the 
> above?  Thanks, netters.

I'm not sure why you say 4 out of 5?  Pathworks provides all all 5 of the
items you list above.  True, it doesn't provide the Telnet and FTP 
applications, but it does give you MacTCP and it doesn't stop you from
using those TCP/IP applications at the same time as the Pathworks 
applications.

Hope this helps.

-Hugh Weiss
-Virginia Tech Computing Center - Distributed Computing Group
-weissh@vtcc1.cc.vt.edu