From: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Summary of the whole Dogon thing in LaTeX
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:54:41 GMT
Reply-To: pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley)
Organization: Edinburgh University

My girlfriend was interested in the Dogon discussion, so I went to great
lengths to summarise it in LaTeX.  Having gone to that much work, I
thought the net might be able to make some use of it, so here it is.
  __                                _____
\/ o\ Paul Crowley pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk \\ //
/\__/ "I'm the boy without a soul."  \X/

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\title{Sirius B and the Dogons}
\author{Collated by Paul Crowley}
\begin{document}
\fromfield{Peter Bell}{bell-peter@yale.edu}

Several years ago, a science program in the US, {\it Nova\/}, did an episode
devoted to debunking myths surrounding the construction of the Nazca
lines, the pyramids, the heads on Easter Island, Stonehenge, and most
of what Eric van Danniken had written up to that time (late 70s, I
believe).

The last segment on the show was devoted to one claim of
extraterrestrial contact that the {\it Nova\/} staff could not debunk, that of
the Dogon tribe in Africa.  As I remember it, the Dogon had particular
reverence for the stars in the Sirius system.  (I may have the names of
the stars here wrong, but this is the best reconstruction I can do.)

The Dogon had a map of the Sirius system that indicated that it was a
binary system, although only one star is visible to the naked eye
(Sirius A, I think?) and which accurately charted the positions of both
stars in the system, including corrections for a third mass in the
system.  When missionaries first discovered this tribe, they told the
Dogon people---your chart {\em must\/} be inaccurate, any fool can see
that there is only one star there.  Later, Sirius B was located with
radiotelescopes, and the orbits of the stars were shown to be subject
to deviations including a third, massive body in the system.  When the
Dogon are asked how they came to have such good maps of this one
particular system, they reply that the maps were furnished by visitors
from that system.

Now, if in fact the Dogon maps do date to before contact with Europe
(which the {\it Nova\/} episode indicated they did), this would seem to
constitute pretty puzzling evidence, hard to explain as ``luck''.

I am wondering if anyone out there has any information on this
topic---please, no flames if I have incorrectly called Sirius A Sirius
B or some such, but any information on this tribe and their claims
would be appreciated.

\fromfield{Doug S.  Caprette}{dsc@gemini.tmc.edu}

Sirius B, a white dwarf, was discovered visually long before the inception
of radio astronomy.  A moderate sized amateur telescope 10--12 inches
aperture is sufficient to split it when at greatest elongation.   I
have not split it myself.  I am not aware of any evidence for a third
body, but cannot discount the possibility.  From the evidence available
shortly after its discovery, it was deduced that Sirius B was far more
massive, than its meager brightness would have led astronomers to
believe.  This apparently was quite well publicized in the popular
press of the day.

The story you relate, seems to more than a little exaggerated.  How
would they relate any details regarding perturbations in the system by
an unknown third body to a missionary?

However, the fantastic astronomical knowledge of the Dogons, or whoever
they were (including knowledge of the Gallilean moons, and the rings of
Saturn) has been tentatively explained.

The missionaries who brought back news of these fantastic observations
were not the first to contact these people.  An earlier group had done
so, shortly after the discovery of Sirius B\@.  The best explanation is
that the first group of missionaries told the Dogons about these things
in an effort to impress them with their superior scientific knowledge. 
When the second set of missionaries arrived, the Dogon simply repeated
the information which had by then been incorporated into their
cosmology.  Perhaps they didn't want the second set of missionaries to
think they were a bunch of morons.

I believe that the story of first contact by another set of
missionaries independently of the second is well documented.  The rest
of the explanation is pure speculation.  However, as contact of the
Dogons by extraterrestrials is not documented at all, it remains the
better explanation of the two.

\fromfield{Peter Bell}{bell-peter@yale.edu}

\begin{quote}
From the evidence available shortly after its discovery, it was deduced
that Sirius B was far more massive, than its meager brightness would
have led astronomers to believe.  This apparently was quite well
publicized in the popular press of the day.
\end{quote}

Point taken.  I had not known that this was the case.  When was the
Sirius compound system first recognized as such?

\begin{quote}
How would they relate any details regarding perturbations in the system
by an unknown third body to a missionary?
\end{quote}

I am not clear on that either.

\begin{quote}
However, the fantastic astronomical knowledge of the Dogons, or whoever
they were (including knowledge of the Gallilean moons, and the rings of
Saturn) has been tentatively explained.
\end{quote}

Is this tentative explanation {\em yours\/}, or are you citing a source
here? Do you have specific knowledge of this instance, or is this
something that has happened before.  The {\it Nova\/} episode made no mention
of the Dogon cosmology ``including knowledge of the Gallilean moons,
and the rings of Saturn''---these are things visible without even
mirror-based telescopes as good as the pair my brother made.  And, I
would have expected {\it Nova\/} to bring out the points you make if they had
applied.

So, in a nutshell:

\begin{enumerate}
\item when was Sirius A/Sirius B recognized to be a binary? As presented in the
{\it Nova\/} episode, the Dogon were aware of this substantially before western science
by decades.
\item the one missionary group/second missionary group: is this your
hypothesis, or do you have specific knowledge of this history?
\end{enumerate}

I am really hoping for someone who knows the details of this specific
instance.

Thanks!

\fromfield{R.  Bruce Martin}{rbm4t@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU}

For a discussion of the Dogon case see pages 289--295 in {\it Science
and the Paranormal\/} by George O.  Abell and Barry Singer, published
by Scribners in 1981, paperback in 1983.

\fromfield{Curtis Roelle}{roelle@uars\_mag.jhuapl.edu}

Sirius B, a white dwarf, was discovered in the 19th century (long
before radio telescopes were even thought of), by Alvan Clark and Sons
during a star test of either the 40" Yerkes or the 36" Lick refractor. 
Having never been observed before, it was at first thought to be an
indication of a problem in the optics, or so the legend goes.

\fromfield{Doug S.  Caprette}{dsc@gemini.tmc.edu}

\begin{quote}
Is this tentative explanation {\em yours\/}, or are you citing a source here?
\end{quote}

I'm not citing a source, because I don't remember the title of the
book.  It might have been {\it Astronomy of the Ancients\/}, or some
such.   The tentative explanation is that of the author(s) as nearly as
I can recall.  I believe it had a chapter devoted to Stonehenge as
well.

\begin{quote}
when was Sirius A/Sirius B recognized to be a binary?
\end{quote}

The classic story is that Sirius was first split by one of Alvan
Clarke's sons while testing a 12 inch refractor objective.   According
to tradition, his exact words were ``My God father, the dog star is
double.''  Probable a somewhat fanciful version of what actually
happened.  This would have been during the later half of the 19th
century during Clark's heyday as a lens maker.

\begin{quote}
As presented in the {\it Nova\/} episode, the Dogon were aware of this
substantially before western science by decades.
\end{quote}

The book whose title I don't recall indicates otherwise.  It sounds
like this part of the {\it Nova\/} episode was poorly researched.

\begin{quote}
the one missionary group/second missionary group: is this your
hypothesis, or do you have specific knowledge of this history?
\end{quote}

The author(s) of the book whose title I don't remember indicated that
this part was well documented.  The part about what was discussed, was
indicated as being speculative.

\begin{quote}
I am really hoping for someone who knows the details of this specific instance.
\end{quote}

I'm sorry I can't help you out with the specifics of my source, but if
you check around in the library for books with titles like {\it
Astronomy of the Ancients\/} you will hopefully find it.

\fromfield{James J.  Lippard}{lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu}

Ian Ridpath wrote an article on this subject for an early issue of the
{\it Skeptical Inquirer\/}, probably in the early 1980s.  I think it's titled
``The Sirius Mystery.''

\fromfield{Ed Watkeys}{edw@distant.uucp}

Also, part of Carl Sagan's {\it Broca's Brain\/} deals with the Dogon
people and the mystery---he contends that the source {\em was\/} from alien
contact, but not aliens from another planet~\dots

\fromfield{Paul Crowley}{pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk}

I can't help feeling that even if you didn't have the technology to make
large, accurate focussing mirrors, you could do something clever with
interferometry.  Is there any way that a few clever astronomers and
optical instrument makers could demonstrate the existence of Sirius B
using only the technology the Dogons had access to? And is there any
way they could have stumbled upon such a method?

If not, we're left with someone discovering Sirius B and telling them
(although, of course, this being someone from Earth is always a better
theory than someone from space~\dots)

\fromfield{Scott C DeLancey}{delancey@darkwing.uoregon.edu}

\begin{quote}
If not, we're left with someone discovering Sirius B and telling them
\end{quote}

I'm not sure this is true.  It's been too long since I read about this,
but my vague memory is that the striking coincidence in the story is
that the Dogon attribute to Sirius, which is a deity, a dark twin.  If
that's all there is to it (if there's more, sorry, I didn't check my
facts) then I'm not sure that the coincidence is all that striking.
Lots of deities around the world are associated with celestial objects,
and lots and lots of deities around the world have twins.  That one
particular culture should have a twinned deity (no surprise) associated
with a bright star (no surprise) that coincidentally happens to be a
binary may not be all that significant---even if the Dogon did come up
with the story all on their own.

\fromfield{Chris Flatters}{cflatter@nrao.edu}

\begin{quote}
I can't help feeling that even if you didn't have the technology to make
large, accurate focussing mirrors, you could do something clever with
interferometry.
\end{quote}

No.  The simplest form of stellar interferometer (A.  A.  Michelson, Astrophys.
J.  51:257 (1920) and A.  A.  Michelson and F.  G.  Pease, Astrophys.  J.  53:249
(1921)) requires at least 4 mirrors to be held in a rigid framework and
would still require a focussing device to combine the light from the two
arms of the interferometer.  Such an interferometer requires precise adjustment
and atmospheric instabilities affect the resulting light pattern making
observations very difficult.

In addition it is very unlikely that someone could stumble on the idea of
an interferometer and even more unlikely that they could interpret observations
made by one without a knowledge of the wave nature of light and of the
Fourier transform.

\fromfield{George Kambic}{kambic@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com}

We seem to forget that knowledgeable Englishmen were roaming all over Africa in
the 19th century.  It is plausible that the story was picked up from one of
them and transmitted through the Dogon to another.
\end{document}
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