HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sm86+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stefan Monnier)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Mac OS vs. TOS (was Re: Falcon Graphics
Date: 7 Sep 92 10:22:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.seetrne00awYIHFX1d
	<1992Sep7.005733.3791@spcvxb.spc.edu>
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.atari.st: 7-Sep-92 Re: Mac OS vs. TOS
(was Re:.. mauritz_c@spcvxb.spc.edu (1306)

> In article <10190@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au>, warwick@cs.uq.oz.au (Warwick
> Allison) writes:
> > rlcollins@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Ryan 'Gozar' Collins) writes:
> > 
> >>     But don't forget, a command-. would have canceled that dialog box
> >>so you wouldn't have had to reboot.
> > 
> > Ah, but of course!  Command-. why didn't I think of that logical
> keysequence :

> Granted, the Mac operating system has its quirks (don't they all?), but
> I think you will have a hard time showing that its quirkiness comes close
> to rivaling that of TOS.  The ease of use and the standardized menu of
> most applications is probably one of the main reasons that the Mac
> clobbers the Atari line in sales of machines in spite of the huge
> price differential (actually the price differential is narrowing
> quickly).

> For example:

> In today's New York Times, there is an ad from J&R Music World
> for a Mac Classic II for $1199.  For that you get:

> 68030-16mhz mpu
> 4mb RAM
> 40mb hard disk
> keyboard
> (hi rez mono monitor built in)

With a processing power divided by two by the small 16bits data bus !

> That is $400 more than the indicated price of the Falcon and for
> that extra money you get 3mb more RAM, monitor, hard disk, and
> stable system software.  ...not to mention the thousands of software
> titles available off the shelf (instead of hunting all over town for
> a music store with a few game titles).

Without forgetting the GREAT 9 inches screen on which you
just can't do anything !

> Regards,

> Chris

Sure, the Macs are great ! and they are getting cheaper !
but the Falcon is not that expensive !

For th OS, as a user I (currently) prefer the Mac OS, but as
a programmer I prefer  the TOS with MiNT (or better, the coming
MultiTOS) (cause of the real mulitasking, for example)

	Stefan Monnier

-----------------------------------------------------
-- On the average, people seem to be acting normal --
-----------------------------------------------------
From: joeadato@tcpbbs.pcn.org (Joseph Adato)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Hard disk Defragmenters, any suggestions?
Date: 15 Sep 92 00:00:16 GMT
Organization: TCP BBS, Cleveland, Ohio

Michtron has a very good de-fragmenter called Tool-Kit.  It also is
good for backing up hard drives, and repairing damaged data.  I also
believe that ICD has a de-fragmenting program as well.  Of-course you
can alway de-fragment your hard drive by 1st backing it up and then
restoring it.

Also you can reduce the amount of time it takes to backup your hard
drive by placing all of your programs on one or two partitions and
placing the data created with your programs on other partitions.

Since the programs themselves never change there will be no framentation
of them and you'll only have to do one backup of those partitions.  The
partitions which contain data will be the partitions you'll need to 
backup.  I have five partitions on my hard drive. two partitions contain
my programs the rest of my hard drive is used to store data.  When I do
a back up (once a week) I only backup those three partitions containing
my data.  This technique (sp?) greatly reduces the amount of time spent
doing backups.
From: Julian_Reschke@ms.maus.de (Julian Reschke)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Gemulator (Falcon emulator
Date: 5 Sep 92 15:42:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: MS.A47272
Organization: MausNet
X-Gateway: MausGate/News 1.11

mauritz_c@spcvxb.spc.edu wrote:
>I'm amazed that you guys are still spending so much energy debating about
>Atari's vaporware.  Granted, some Falcons were seen at the "show" in
>Germany.  Do I have to remind everyone how many years Atari showcased
>the 68020/30 TT before they ever sold one (nobody seems to be buying
>them anyway)?

Exactly one year. They showed it for the first time on the Atari fair
in 1989, and they shipped it exactly one year later.

>They made the same price claims then..."get your 32bit
>680X0 box for less than $1000 and blow the doors off your neighbor".
>However, when the thing was finally released, the laws of reality
>took over and by the time you configured the machine with enough
>things to do any real work, it cost just as much or more than
>comparable and better supported products from other companies.
>To make matters worse, Atari's development timetable is so far
>back from the pack that by the time (except for the original ST)
>they get anything out the door it is "has been" technology.

For the Falcon, this is obviously not true. It's the first consumer
machine with these features for sound. And don't forget the DSP.

>Why would anyone take a risk on such an orphaned machine when
>they can run out and buy a 486box for $1500 (unlike Atari,
>that includes a few megs of RAM, a decent hard disk, and a
>minimum of 800x600 color graphics.  And you can go out to ANY
>computer store and buy add-in cards, memory, software, etc.

This of course applies to ANY machine which is not PC compatible.
Obviously, there IS a markt for those machines, otherwise Atari
and Commodore's Amigas would have vanished a long time ago. And
don't forget Apple :-)
From: kjohnson@castor.cs.uga.edu (Kristopher Johnson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Atari Conference at GEnie 9/9
Date: 9 Sep 92 14:20:12 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <18kvj7INNbu@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Len Stys) writes:
>
>In a previous article, kjohnson@castor.cs.uga.edu (Kristopher Johnson) says:
>
>>Good news!!!  According to Bill Rehbock at the CIS conference, 
>>the Falcon030 has passed FCC Class B specifications and they
>>are only waiting for the paperwork certification.  And people
>>thought it would take a few months just for THIS to happen. <grin>
>>
>
>
>Ok, who paid off the FCC?  :)

Not the Tramiels, that's for sure!  They wouldn't be able to
justify the expense. <grin>  Anyway, it also sounded like 
they still plan on having limited availability of the Falcon030
in the U.S. by mid to late October and that they'll only be
shipping units to developers between now and then.  That wasn't
said outright, as far as I know, but it seemed implied.
From: sunder@maxwell.concordia.ca ( SREENIVASACHAR SUNDER )
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Request for info for 1040ST^F
Date: 13 Sep 92 23:45:15 GMT
Organization: Concordia University, Montreal Quebec
Originator: sunder@maxwell

I have an ATARI SC1224 Monitor and an ATARI 1040ST^F.
I would like to use this as a terminal by conneting it
to the computer at the University by a 2400 baud modem.
I request advice in this regard.

Please direct your mail to me at

sunder@maxwell.concordia.ca

Thanking you in advance.
From: raycole@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Ray Cole)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Double Klick Software Adresse wanted!!
Date: 7 Sep 1992 09:52:24 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

In <2AAAE122.16310@news.service.uci.edu> jvance@maxwell.oac.uci.edu (Joachim Vance) writes:

<stuff deleted> 

>  Guess again.  This is what I got back with a test message just a few
>minutes ago.

>   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>While talking to Menudo.UH.EDU:
>>>> RCPT To:<uace0@menudo.uh.edu>
><<< 554 uace0@Expired... "Sorry, this user's account is expired"
>554 <uace0@menudo.uh.edu>... Service unavailable

>  So either Michael Vederman's account expired at the beginning of the
>month, or something else happened.  I hope he gets his account working
>soon.  I know there are plenty of people willing to beta test his
>software...

Everyone out on the internet will get to wait awhile from what I've gotten
back from them.  I followed someone's advice to send to their compuserve 
account instead and got back the reply that they are currently holding off
internet beta testing.  Apparently they are having some big problems with
their internet access and don't want to release something in beta test with
out being able to keep in touch with the testers.  Hopefully they will get 
this problem solved, as I'm one of the people that would love to help them
beta test. ;) 

Ray

-- 
Ray Cole                    |    raycole@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Computer Consultant         |   This space for rent or hire 
Manhattan KS  USA           |         Make an offer
From: sm86+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stefan Monnier)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Use of Falcon's DSP?
Date: 10 Sep 92 01:14:04 GMT
	<1992Sep9.164328.15800@athena.cs.uga.edu>
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.atari.st: 9-Sep-92 Re: Use of Falcon's
DSP? Kristopher Johnson@casto (1648)
> The Falcon has an SDMA processor which will handle all the sound
> stuff including, if needed, routing the sound data to the DSP for
> any special processing.  In other words, no, the DSP isn't 
> directly responsible for handling the Falcon's 8-channel, 16-bit
> sound.  However, if you want 8 (or more) completely independent
> channels, then you will need to route the data through the DSP and
> the DSP I/O port.  The Falcon's SDMA processor will handle sampling
> 2 channels at a time through the stereo audio input and mixing
> down 8 channels to 2 channels for stereo output all by itself.

> Yes, the DSP will allow some rather impressive uses for manipulating
> graphics, although "unique" is a bit subjective.  According to Atari,
> the Falcon's DSP operating at 32MHz will yield as much as 25MIPS,
> although that too is a bit subjective.  However, things such as 
> real-time raytracing and very fast 3D rendering are examples of
> what a DSP is capable of.

What do you m,ean by 'real-time' raytracing ?
Just a bit of computation: 25 frames/s * 640*480 = 7.68 Mpixels/s
If you are able to compute the color of one pixel (and set it) in 4 
instrucions (1 cycle/instruction) with raytracing, then you're
algorithm is REALLY GREAT !
I know you can get fast ray-tracing using coherency and limited
realism, but real-time require a bit more power !

Nonetheless, this DSP is great and will permit some very nice 
3D graphics and other things to come (compression, modem, 
mix-table, equalizer, 'parallel debugger', ..)


	Stefan Monnier

-----------------------------------------------------
-- On the average, people seem to be acting normal --
-----------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: cummins@a.cs.okstate.edu (CUMMINS JOHN WILLI)
Subject: Re: FTP Sites?
Organization: Oklahoma State University, Computer Science, Stillwater
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 17:09:01 GMT


Xref: sparky comp.sys.atari.st:13705 rec.audio:12430 sci.skeptic:16353
From: bbs.ruscal@tsoft.sf-bay.org (Russel Mar)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,rec.audio,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: sampling and human hearing range (was Re: (none))
Date: 13 Sep 92 07:13:57 GMT
Organization: The TSoft BBS and Public Access Unix, +1 415 969 8238

jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca ( John Henders ) writes:

> In <+qwn34l.payner@netcom.com>, Rich Payne writes:
> >
> >DATS sample at 48KHZ so that one cannot make a direct digital copy from
> >CD's to DATs. 
> > 
> 	Then why do they also sample at 44.1? And if your conjecture was true, 
> why do they have scms? And why is the Dat Tax being pushed through 
> Congress? 
> 
> 
> -- 
>        John Henders      jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca
>     I think your "evolutionary scale" needs an adjustment.  Either 
>       that, or you've got your thumb on it. -> (lefty@apple.com)
> 

============
<<  I previously posted on this subject RE: Hybrid Arts ADAP  >>

To clarify "a bit" for those unfamialr with DAT's and stuff:

The standard DAT sample rate is 48KHz, which offers somewhat trivial 
improvement over the CD standard of 44.1kHz.  However, by implementing 
a copy restriction flag on commercial CD's, you are disallowed from mak
ing direct digital-to-digital copies without constraints even if you are 
able to record at 44.1KHz.  Of course, you cannot make direct digital 
copies when the data rates don't match. (i.e. playback 44.1k, record at 
48k).

HOWEVER, there is a reason for a DAT recorder to be able to record at 
44.1kHz;  That is so that if you are making a "Master" tape to be 
transferred to CD media (For your first Gold album :)), the DAT stereo 
master can be digitally transferred to CD without going thru the analog 
A/D and D/A converters in the playback and recording decks.

Note that by using the analog inputs and outputs of a CD and DAT player, 
there is no copy restriction since the DAT player is no longer receiving 
digital data directly.  'Of course, then that means that you are not 
making a digital copy...

A comment of the proposed DAT tax:
  This was proposed so that blank tapes would have a tax excised that 
would reimburse recording artist for the unavoidable bootleg copies made 
of their works.  Since DAT is likely to remain a semi-pro/hobbyist media, 
I don't see this tax having a major consumer impact.  (The problem being 
that for semi-Pro use, you shouldn't have to pay tax since you aren't 
bootlegging...)

If you are wondering if DAT is worth it, a recent review of a 
top-of-the-line Nakamichi cassete deck showed it made better 
reproductions of a CD source than a DAT....showing that a high quality, 
properly calibrated cassette deck is still a viable medium.

--
Russel Mar (bbs.ruscal@tsoft.sf-bay.org)
Xref: sparky comp.sys.atari.st:13682 rec.audio:12418 sci.skeptic:16337
From: sm86+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stefan Monnier)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,rec.audio,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: sampling and human hearing range (was Re: (none))
Date: 12 Sep 92 14:08:26 GMT
	<+qwn34l.payner@netcom.com>
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.atari.st: 12-Sep-92 Re: sampling and
human hear.. Rich Payne@netcom.com (563)

> In article <JT0yqB3w165w@tsoft.sf-bay.org> bbs.ruscal@tsoft.sf-bay.org
> (Russel Mar) writes:

> >=======================
> >Having used a Hybrid Arts (R.I.P.) ADAP sampler, I can tell you that the 
> >accepted minimum requirement is to sample at 2x the max. freq. you want 
> >to reproduce/record.  If you are baffled, look up the Nyquist Theorem;  
> >CD's sample at 44.1k and DAT at 48kHz for this reason also.

> DATS sample at 48KHZ so that one cannot make a direct digital copy from
> CD's to DATs. 
>  
> >--
> >Russel Mar (bbs.ruscal@tsoft.sf-bay.org)

> Rich

> payner@netcom.com


Accessorily, a lot of (at least some) DAT-readers can be switched between 
48, 44.1 and a third speed (I can't remember).

I don't know if digital copy is easy to get (I believe there is another
protection). My knowledge in this domain is a bit too limited !
(and I don't have neither a CD nor a DAT)

	Stefan Monnier

-----------------------------------------------------
-- On the average, people seem to be acting normal --
-----------------------------------------------------
From: Christian_Vogler@hh2.maus.de (Christian Vogler)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Guck & Mint problem
Date: 10 Sep 92 07:34:00 GMT
Organization: MausNet
X-Gateway: MausGate/News 1.11

In article <12742@ecs.soton.ac.uk> dah90@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Halls DA) writes:

>Guck won't call it's editor (whatever you want it to be) under MiNT. Anyone
>else had this problem? Any solution or do I live with it?

If it is not a problem of too little memory, wait for an update. It should be
due anytime now, and it _should_ work fully under MiNT/MTOS.

Christian
----
Christian_Vogler@hh2.maus.de
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: jhurwitz@access.digex.com (j. hurwitz)
Subject: Re: Can I un-arc MSDOS files on an ST?
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 12:40:14 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.150913.17933@unlinfo.unl.edu> ganderso@unlinfo.unl.edu (gary anderson) writes:
>
>I want to get some games via FTP for my young nephew who has an
>IBM machine.  My machine is an Atari ST.
>
>Can I un-arc these IBM files on my ST, as I would an ST file?  Or will
>I need special software?  Or can I even do it at all?
>
>(I know the easiest thing would be to get the files and the appropriate
>unarc program and let him do it, but I know the procedure would
>confuse him even more than it's confusing me...)
>
>Thanks!
>
>Gary Anderson
>ganderso@unlinfo.unl.edu
>
>
>
>

Sure, no problem...works for me, I do it all the time...Some of the LHA's for
the PC are a bit picky though. In all I've had few problems..

          __/ /          .                     +             .
        _/__/_/\                                
      _/____/ \/  J. Hurwitz                                          ,
  .  /     / \/|          .          *                   
    /     /  /|/  The MIDI master             .                  o
   /_____/  / |                                         
  //____/\\/ /  Roaming Cyberspace          "Space is the place"        
  /  o  \ ||/    .                     
 | o   o |//                                .          -Sun Ra      +
  \o   o//     jhurwitz@access.digex.com          
   --^--   .                                            *        
+                         '               +                          
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: cummins@a.cs.okstate.edu (CUMMINS JOHN WILLI)
Subject: Re: What WP is compat with PC stuff
Organization: Oklahoma State University, Computer Science, Stillwater
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 15:44:38 GMT
Keywords: WP PC

In article <1992Sep9.082300.3251@lut.ac.uk> M.P.Wood@lut.ac.uk (Michael Wood) writes:
>
>Does anybody know of a good WP package[s] that can write stuff that is 
>imported into PC stuff ( preferably formatted ).
>

WordPerfect?  THat should do the trick!

jc
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov (John Hutchinson)
Subject: Re: Buying a Falcon (was: Falcon Graphics)
Reply-To: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:49:52 GMT

In article 113130@rrz.uni-koeln.de, aeg03@rrz.uni-koeln.de (Jan T. Kim) writes:

>Why is Atari poorly run? I don't see how this can be  said  of  a
>company who are about to release  a  pretty  nice  computer.  And
>regarding  advertising  and  making  fuss about their products, I
>agree this is important when marketing stuff like the  Lynx,  but
>for  "real  computers" it's good practice to let the users make a
>decision  based  upon  the  facts  instead  of  yelling   "Great!
>Gorgeous! Fantastic!! BUY IT!!!" into their ear all the time.


Unfortunately, Jan, the real world just doesn't work this way, as much as we
would like to believe otherwise.  Without advertising and a well laid out and
executed marketing PLAN, the potential NEW users just won't get the good word.
Atari will still sell the new machines, but the majority of buyers will be
existing Atari owners, not newbies.  In order for consistent growth in sales,
Atari has to promote the machine to first time buyers and those considering
switching to a new machine.  Notice I'm not even mentioning "behind-the-scenes"
support for dealers and developers which desparately needs bolstering.

Also understand that this has a direct impact on folks like you, who already
own and appreciate the Atari hardware.  It's the age old formula...

 Less advertising = Fewer h/w sales = Smaller user base = Less s/w available

As good a machine as the new Falcon is, it won't mean a thing unless it is
promoted well.  Atari has evidently chosen the tact to promote the machine
heavily in Europe while the US will take the back seat (again).  This is
exactly opposite of what they should be doing, IMHO.  The Falcon is in a
unique position to fill a market niche in THIS country, but NOT Europe.  Not
meaning to speak for all Europeans, of course, but indications from the Atari
messe in Dusseldorf are that a more powerful, workstation-like machine (the
hopefully upcoming "Mega-Falcon-040", perhaps?) is what is wanted there.

As a developer, I sincerely hope the Falcon is a runaway success with both
old _and_ new Atari buyers.  For without a larger installed user base out
there, few developers will be able to survive much longer (again, IMHO).

---

___________________________ John "HUTCH" Hutchinson _________________________
_________________ Fair Dinkum Technologies     Member - IAAD  _______________
________________ "No worries, mate... it's from Fair Dinkum!" _______________
____________ email: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov   GEnie: FAIR-DINKUM _____________


Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: ahaley@eoe.co.uk (Andrew Haley)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,rec.audio,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: sampling and human hearing range (was Re: (none))
Date: 14 Sep 92 11:14:18 GMT
Organization: EO Europe Limited, Cambridge, UK
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

EL GATES (egates@triton.unm.edu) wrote:
: Actually DATs sample at a higher frequency because the sound reproduction
: is better.  

Erm, are you sure about this?  Granted, the anti-aliasing filters need
be less steep, but the sigma-delta converters ofte used today make
that less of a worry.

: BTW, the reason that CDs  only sample at 44.1 kHz is that when they 
: first came out that was about the best they could do and then couldn't
: up the sampling rate since so many people had already bought CD players
: for the 44.1kHz sampling rate.  

This is utter nonsense.  44.1kHz was used because video tape recorders
were used to master CDs, and thus the sampling rate had to be a
multiple of the TV scan frequency.

: It also turns out (I believe) that a
: sampling rate higher than 48 kHz doesn't really get you anything as far 
: as better quality reproduction, (again see Nyquist Theorem) and does 
: get more expensive to make good AD converters.

Not so much that, as the fact that it reduces the storage capacity of
the media.  Running the DACs faster is not a problem, as the
popularity of oversampling converters will attest.

: El
: 
: 
: egates@triton.unm.edu
: 
: 
: Disclaimer:  All opinion here are mine and noone else can claim them
: for their own.


Andrew.
From: Chris_Millar@lppl.mi.org (Chris Millar)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Is Falcon worth buying????
Distribution: world
Date: 14 Sep 92 15:43:21 EST
Organization: Les's Place BBS

Mark Kovarski writes:
>You are?  I am really happy for you.  I have dealt numerous times with
people
> just like you and you know what - THEY ALL MAKE ME LAUGH!

You do?  From your obvious lack of knowledge, it was my understanding that
you never deal with ANYONE - in the real world, that is.  My post was based
on one point - You are a moron - Does that word have any meaning for you? 
I hope so, because the drivel that you have been smearing across this group
is really quite pathetic.  If I wanted to witness someone deficating at the
mouth, I would once again move myself to amiga.advocacy.....
(Unless you aren't getting the hint, here it is in plain 'ol english:  Most
of the comments you have made are based on half-truths and assumption
-which you claim as undeniable fact......if you want to preach against
Atari, this isn't the place to do it - The vast majority of us know better,
and don't want to waste our time and money sifting through your meaningless
posts.....)


-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
From: kslate@MtHolyoke.edu (Kevin D. Slate)
Subject: STORM / The real Flash II
Organization: Mount Holyoke College
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 01:51:57 GMT


Double Click Software is releasing a new Term program written by, of all
people, Alan Page. Alan Page is the author of the original Flash. The
program is do out December 7th at a price of $59.95. 

If anyone has had the misfortune of trying Flash II they will be looking
forward to this Program.

Storm:

	Work on all versions of TOS
	Has a Basic Script language
	100% multi TOS compatable
	Multitasking without Multitos...download and use the basic lang
		or edit the capture buffer.
	Macros
	Background transfers in X,Y,Z modem and CS B+

It looks promiseing.


Slip.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st