From: tbuckley@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Tim Buckley)
Subject: Re: "Family Values" in Hollywood
Organization: Dept. of Psychology, Univ. of Illinois, Urbana
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 03:48:07 GMT

In article <LARRY.92Jul21144757@peak.psl.nmsu.edu> larry@peak.psl.nmsu.edu (Evil Engineer doin' it the Cowboy Way) writes:
>   >Apparently it isn't just us Evil Liberals who question Quayle's fitness
>   >for office. Remember when Bush had his little heart murmur? How many of
>   >the president's staunch supporters were in a tizzy over the prospect of
>   >Quayle taking the helm?
>
>   No I don't remember.  Why not address the issue instead of making
>   another unsubstantiated accusation?
>   How many and who were they.  It is easy to talk.  If you're right fine
>   but as of yet I have seen no evidence in your posts -- only rhetoric.
>
>Hey, if you want to filter out rhetoric, we'll have to eliminate most of
>what Rush and faithful Dittodom are saying here too.

Well don't count me among the "faithful" (except as a fairly faithful
listener).  I generally rely on my own opinions and spend many hours
researching issues so that they are somewhat informed.  Rush often
agrees with me.  That's lucky for him :) :)
>
>I don't doubt that you don't remember Tim. You have the same selective
>memory that afflicts most of us apparently. And you probably think that
>Dan Quayle is a fine vice president. Your opinion and my opinion are
>different.

My opinions on Quayle have changed as time has gone on.  At first I thought
he was an embarrassment.  But as time has gone on I have gained respect
for him.  Now I think the embarassment lies with the news media for its
treatment of him.  My opinion of him have gone up to the point where I
would now classify it as neutral.  My real concern is that we shouldn't
be so easily led (note that I didn't say misled) by the press
(particularly TV).  TV can, for the most part (there are exceptions)
only lead us in directions of inquiry but the inquiry itself should be
done by us.  We must learn to think for ourselves.  This is painful and
difficult but I believe that if this republic is to move closer to
fulfilling its potential we must do the work that results in an informed
electorate.  Noone can do it for us.  But I'm dreaming here.  Even the
rather wonderful brains that surround me rely on TV.  Few ever make a
trip to the library to ascertain the situation for themselves.

>I remember the things that agree with my viewpoint and forget
>those that disagree too. So what?

Well, I understand the point (my work is in decision making and I have a
pretty fair understanding of the psychology of heuristics and biases)
but I think that it does matter.  Knowing that human memory and decision
making has systematic flaws should make us less prone to accept even
what WE think is correct.

>And, I make no pretention that my posts aren't, in most cases, my OPINION.
>I state that on my .sig, along with a full sized smiley, if it means anything.
>I don't see everything you post making specific reference to something
>published in a newspaper or broadcast, or otherwise "documented" either.
>

You may be right but I honestly try to attack only after a fairly
thorough information search (within our bounded rationality) and when I
do attack I expect to provide at least a few (well at least one)
specific examples so that the argument can be better understood.  If I
fail to provide one initially I expect others to point out my failure
at which point I must put up or admit that I was wrong.  I don't think
that my being wrong is the end of the world (although I also hate
having my failures pointed out).  If I had never opened my
mind and admitted my mistakes I'd still be sending money to Jesse
Jackson (yes, I really did that and boy does it hurt to admit).

>
>Would you feel better if I re-posted the top 200 quayle quotes from his
>speeches and diplomatic duties? I could download them from alt.humor 
>for you.
>
>Why would I be offended? While I go off and search out the Liberal Media
>for some reference to support my contention, you go off and see if you can
>find one describing the nation's great relief that we had Dan Quayle
>ready to step in and take over in that moment of potential crisis.

Larry, I only asked for a quote from ONE highly placed Republican.  It
doesn't seem unreasonable to ask you to substantiate this especially given
the hatchet job the media has done to him (ok, ok, some of it he has
done to himself).  I really think that this has biased the
interpretation of all Dan Quayle data.  That, as a scientist, bugs me.
So much of what people have said regarding this election and the events
surrounding it appears to based on virtually nothing but what is
currently in vogue.  I want the best for my country and I think that
requires thoughtful investigation.

Tim