HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vixie@pa.dec.com (Paul A Vixie)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: alt reorg
Date: 24 Jan 93 23:13:04
Organization: DEC Network Software Lab
	<VIXIE.93Jan24010432@cognition.pa.dec.com>
	<C1DCHp.5qE@dutiws.twi.tudelft.nl>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cognition.pa.dec.com
In-reply-to: graaff@dutiws.twi.tudelft.nl's message of Sun, 24 Jan 1993 17:27:25 GMT

[Hans de Graaff]
> Doesn't that defy the whole purpose of alt, it being an uncontrolled
> hierarchy? If you want a controlled hierarchy you should either look
> for the big seven, or create a new hierarchy like alt-controlled,
> which is a contradiction in terms.
>
> I guess that alt will always be the mess that it is. Cope and manage
> your active file, or drop alt alltogether.

What alt is is "bread and circuses".  I have no wish to soil the altness
by exercising some kind of editorial control; all I want to do is share
some of the work of deleting groups like alt.ensign.wesley.die.die.die.
(I hate wasting inodes even more than I hated wesley crusher, believe it
or not.)

The important part of alt is not that it isn't controlled; it's that there
is no authority for controlling it.  I wouldn't mind a little control, but
I agree that if someone wants authority-driver hierarchy they can go to
the Big Seven.

The kind of control I'm trying to establish will not affect anyone who does
not subscribe to it.  From your description of "Becker", I'm expecting him(?)
to subscribe to the alt.cabal just for the purpose of creating anti-rmgroup
control messages.  In other words, "Becker" _does_ want authority, it's just
that he(?) want to use it to _prevent_ control rather than to _establish_ it.
It's the tyranny of terrorism rather than the tyranny of bureaucracy.  But it's
still tyranny, and it's a good example of how to become that which you used
to fight against.
--
Paul Vixie, DEC Network Systems Lab	
Palo Alto, California, USA         	"Don't be a rebel, or a conformist;
<vixie@pa.dec.com> decwrl!vixie		they're the same thing, anyway.  Find
<paul@vix.com>     vixie!paul		your own path, and stay on it."  -me
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: How about alt.pool or alt.billiards?
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 23:47:58 GMT

In article <C1KxA4.43q@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> fulton@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Ben Fulton) writes:

>Is there any interest?  There was a short-lived proposal a while ago
>for rec.sport.billiards.  The charter looked like this:

Why was it "short-lived?"

In any case, I don't see why it shouldn't go under alt.games or
alt.sport.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: eradm.wbst845e@xerox.com (Erik Radmall)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: New alt group: alt.divorce
Date: 21 Jan 93 19:00:18 GMT
Reply-To: eradm.wbst845e@xerox.com
Organization: Xerox Corporation


I would like to propose a new group for the discussion of any
issues related to divorce.

Why?

1. No newsgroups currently deal directly with this topic.
2. About 50% of all people married will wind up going through it.
3. Divorce is one of the most traumatic situations a person
   can experience.
4. Persons in the process of divorce can benefit greatly from
   contact with those who are also going through it or have already
   experienced it. This includes dealing with the legal aspects,
   emotional aspects, issues like alimony and finance, etc.

Please post your comments, since I haven't been able to fix my mail stuff
yet (or you could try mailing to the given address if you're adventurous).

---
Erik Radmall -- eradm.wbst845e@xerox.com
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: smurphy@unix1.tcd.ie (Mithrandir(S))
Subject: Re: [ADMIN]: PROPOSAL: alt.pub.d
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:22:54 GMT

In <1993Jan21.141135.25102@netcom.com> sbeitzel@netcom.com (Stephen Beitzel) writes:

>I'd like to propose a discussion group, alt.pub.d, to be used for non-FAQ,
>non-story forum discussions pertaining to the .pub newsgroups.

>The .pub groups are high-traffic areas, receiving several long posts every
>day.  It would seem to be a good idea to keep nonessential (in story terms)
>traffic out of the way, but still accessible for public discussion.

>I crossposted this to the .pub groups, but before you flame me too much,
>please note that followups are directed to alt.config.

   Hmmm.
 I think we could definitely do better than a simple alt.pub.d, don't
you. Something which would give a little more feel to it.
  
   I much prefer something like alt.pub.forum or something like that.
  Actually, I have been mulling on this one for a couple of weeks.
   I was going to propose it after my exams.
   Damn, anyway!

  How about alt.pub.parliament?

   Anything than just another .d group.

   Forum!
   Forum!!
   Forum!!!

   etc.

  But regardless, I support the formation of a discussion group to cover
all the alt.pubs that do exist or may exist in the future.




>Comments?


>-- 
>"Throw another turtle on the fire / Guys like me are mad for turtle heat"
>	- Leonard Cohen
>"Disclaimers are for sucks; these opinions belong to EVERYONE!" - Me
>Stephen Beitzel - sbeitzel@netcom.com - sbeitzel@wet.com
--
  To those tryiong to get in touch with Mithrandir, do not email
to the Address in the header. It is borrowed, cause my newsfeed
has exploded.  
     Email:tkelly@unix2.tcd.ie  Thanks.  
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: jmalcolm@sura.net (Joseph Malcolm)
Subject: Re: alt reorg
Organization: SURAnet, College Park, MD, USA, NA, Earth, Milky Way
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:03:35 GMT

In article <1993Jan28.074008.9872@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> joshua@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (Joshua Geller) writes:
>
>this is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in a while.
>I certainly hope nobody is taking it seriously.

Why do you consider it ridiculous?

-- 
Joseph Malcolm				jmalcolm@sura.net		
SURAnet Operations			+1 301 982 4600
Xref: sparky alt.config:8651 alt.sport.photon:4
From: pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com (Dillon Pyron)
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.sport.photon
Subject: Re: Newgroup alt.sport.photon
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:32:17 GMT
Reply-To: pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com
Organization: TI/DSEG VAX Support


In article <26JAN199323414216@summa.tamu.edu>, bac0892@summa.tamu.edu (COX, BRENT ANDREW) writes:
>In article <1k52q3INNnii@umbc7.umbc.edu>, banz@umbc.edu (Rob Banz) writes... 
>>Anyhow, the newsgroup is there to discuss the game/sport of Photon as
>>was/is played in Photon centers that are/were across the country.
>
> How exactly is Photon doing these days?  The one in San Antonio closed
> a few years ago (I think); it was a BIG loss to that city IMHO, since 
> it was better than ANY amusement park, hands down.
>
As did the one in Dallas, along with the corporate offices.  I thought it was
totally dead until I saw this newsgroup, yesterday.

I think they overextended themselves financially and went totally under.  There
may still be a few franchise sites around, but I don't think there is any real
driving force for "Photon".

BTW, I just looked at my souvenier Photon cup, no marks as to where they
were/are.
--
Dillon Pyron                      | The opinions expressed are those of the
TI/DSEG Lewisville VAX Support    | sender unless otherwise stated.
(214)462-3556 (when I'm here)     |
(214)492-4656 (when I'm home)     |"I wish I was dead" said Moxie.
pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com          |"May your every wish come true" replied Spam
PADI DM-54909                     |      _Bored of the Rings_
From: cq866@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Sean Flanagan)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL to create alt.politics.radical-left
Date: 23 Jan 1993 17:29:58 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I certainly agree with the idea of creating and alt.politics.
radical-left newsgroup. Clearly there is a lack of access to these
views, and as someone who likes to form opinions based on many 
different perspectives - without censorship - I would welcome a
newsgroup where radical leftist views could be freely expressed.

This is especially appropriate in light of the banning of MIM and
possibly other groups from M.A.P. and ACTIV-L by the self-styled
arbiters of what is progressive that control those lists.

Newsgroups: alt.config
From: moroney@world.std.com (Michael Moroney)
Subject: Re: alt reorg
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:54:42 GMT

I suggest those who want a list of "real" alt groups to come up with their own
"version" of alt groups, make it available for ftp access and optionally
post it with possibly a description of what is and isn't in it.  If you
don't like the lists available, make your own.  I strongly encourage making
the file available rather than just posting it to eliminate forgeries.

Even Becker, of all people, posts a list of alt groups once in a while.

-Mike
From: djb6@ellis.uchicago.edu (Dennis Brennan)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: Alternative propsal [alt.pub.d to alt.pub.forum]
Date: 25 Jan 93 17:03:59 GMT
Reply-To: djb6@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago

In article <smurphy.727969066@unix1.tcd.ie> smurphy@unix1.tcd.ie (Mithrandir(S)) writes:
>     After reading somebody's article about propsing alt.pub.d,
>  I would like to say that I would prefer it to be called 
>    something like alt.pub.forum, a name with a bit of flavour
>  as opppsed to a simple .d -ing.

I am not yet convinced that there is a need for alt.pub.<discussion>
What potential topics exist which a) are inappropriate for discussion
within the pub.* groups themselves and b) are inappropriate for e-mail?

Out-of-character collaboration on alt.pub.* stories has been accomplished
quite successfully through e-mail.  Indeed, some of the larger threads
(the [R] and [KQ] on a.p.d-i, for example) involved the construction of
de-facto temporary mailing lists.

These communications are of no interest to persons not involved in writing
the thread; there is no point in creating a group for them.  If this is
not what the alt.pub.<discussion?> group is intended to accomplish,
please illuminate me.

-- 
Dennis Brennan
djb6@midway.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: now batting (Was Babe Ruth was a control-weenie)
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 05:03:31 GMT

In article <2518@blue.cis.pitt.edu> tjw@vms.cis.pitt.edu writes:

>If you do, you must understand by now that control-weenies aren't looked
>upon favorably.  That's WHY there IS an ALTnet.

Is that also why alt receives such lower propagation than Usenet?

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /
From: vixie@pa.dec.com (Paul A Vixie)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: alt reorg
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:40:55
Organization: DEC Network Systems Lab
	<2638@blue.cis.pitt.edu> <C1JBn8.5CB@world.std.com> <1k5felINN8q1@nigel.msen.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cognition.pa.dec.com

[moroney]
> I suggest those who want a list of "real" alt groups to come up with their
> own "version" of alt groups, make it available for ftp access and
> optionally post it with possibly a description of what is and isn't in it.
> If you don't like the lists available, make your own.  I strongly encourage
> making the file available rather than just posting it to eliminate
> forgeries.

I think that posting an encapsulated alt "checkgroups" to alt.config would
be great.  By "encapsulated" I mean that it would not look like a checkgroups
to the news transport -- it would only be executable if someone took it and
fed it to their "inews" by hand.

[emv]
> Votes are for weenies, cabals are for control freaks.  Post early and often.

I'm not sure how (or whether) to respond to this.  If several of us want to
get together and co-manage our news servers to avoid duplication of effort,
how can that be construed as "control freakism"?  We are going to great
lengths to make sure that noone receives the control messages without
explicitly asking for them.  Is there more we could do to prevent insecure
sysadmins from feeling unduly controlled?
--
Paul Vixie, DEC Network Systems Lab	
Palo Alto, California, USA         	"Don't be a rebel, or a conformist;
<vixie@pa.dec.com> decwrl!vixie		they're the same thing, anyway.  Find
<paul@vix.com>     vixie!paul		your own path, and stay on it."  -me
Xref: sparky alt.config:8597 misc.activism.progressive:10336
From: JHURLEY@HUSC3.HARVARD.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.config,misc.activism.progressive
Subject: alt.pol.r-l; another argument
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:20:59 GMT
Followup-To: alt.config
Organization: Harvard University Science Center
Originator: rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu

I want to support creation of a new, unmoderated, left newsgroup
from a different perspective from that of the previous posters
on this topic, who were mainly opposed to the moderated
character of M.A.P. I want to see a group that can be a
supplement to MAP for certain types of discussions, rather than
a replacement for it.

My hope is that an A.P.R-L could be a forum for
theoretical discussions that don't fit in to the focus of M.A.P. 
The left seriously needs reevaluation
of our traditional ideological postures, which seem increasingly 
outdated and irrelevant these days (note: this is a general critique of our
movement, not an attack on any one tendency). M.A.P. is a difficult forum
for this kind of discussion for two reasons: 1) Most of the posters there
are liberals and/or conspiracy theorists, rather than leftists, and hence have
little interest in this kind of discussion; 2) MAP's newsy focus 
("*information* for progressive activists") makes theoretical discussion 
seem out of place.  

I'm not advocating withdrawal into a leftist ghetto; we need to communicate
with liberals and generally-dissatisfied types, and to disseminate
newsy types of information, and MAP is good for this.
From: rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: alt reorg
Date: 23 Jan 1993 18:15:16 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu

In article <9301230551.AA23727@gw.home.vix.com>, vixie@vix.com (Paul A Vixie) writes:
> i'm nipping at the edges of some of the older cruft in my active file.
> i would like to make the following changes.  does anyone object?
> 
Yes, leave it alone. Trying to 'reorganize' alt will simply double the number 
of groups on a topic and split the conversation between them. You cannot
succeed in completely removing an alt group. There will be enough 'becker'
types to guarantee that the old groups will never be removed. 
-- 
Richard H. Miller                 Email: rick@bcm.tmc.edu
Asst. Dir. for Technical Support  Voice: (713)798-3532
Baylor College of Medicine        US Mail: One Baylor Plaza, 302H
                                           Houston, Texas 77030
Xref: sparky alt.config:8652 alt.sport.photon:5
From: wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick)
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.sport.photon
Subject: Re: Newgroup alt.sport.photon
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:30:55 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

banz@umbc.edu (Rob Banz) writes:

>I'd like to know if there's any objection/total jubilation of the creation
>of this newsgroup.  Sorry that I didn't post to alt.config before I created
>the newsgroup, but I'm sort of new at this newsgroup creation thing.

>Anyhow, the newsgroup is there to discuss the game/sport of Photon as
>was/is played in Photon centers that are/were across the country.

>That's about it...any ideas/flames/etc...

	I'd like to remind those who read this group that there is also
alt.sport.lasertag - if you also play that game, stop by and shoot the 
breeze with us.....

Duane
wb9omc@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu
From: rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Proposal for alt.games.super-nes
Date: 27 Jan 93 20:54:41 GMT
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada



   Due to the growing traffic on rec.games.video I suggest the formation
of alt.games.super-nes, a Super Nintendo only newsgroup which would deal with
buy and sell, cheats, anecdotes, game reviews, etc...basically anything
having to do in any way with the Super NES.

    Well????


-- 
Richard J. Rauser        "You have no idea what you're doing."
rauser@sfu.ca            "Oh, don't worry about that. We're professional
WNI                          outlaws - we do this for a living."
-----------------
"Remember, no matter where you go, there you are." -Dr.Banzai
From: vixie@pa.dec.com (Paul A Vixie)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: announcing the alt.cabal
Date: 24 Jan 93 22:23:58 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: DEC Network Software Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: cognition.pa.dec.com

several of the larger sites are having trouble with their 6500-line active
files and have been looking for ways to trim some of the junk out of them.
what we've come up with is a completely voluntary subscription-only service
that will let the "alt" groups be managed from a central source.  that source
is the "vix.com" server, the person who will issue the newgroup/rmgroup
control messages is "vixie@vix.com", and the "Distribution:" on all such
newgroup/rmgroup/checkgroups control messages will be "alt.cabal".  the
first members of the alt.cabal will be vix.com, decwrl, and uunet.  others
are welcome to apply; all you need to do is make sure that you are running
INN and that your control.ctl file contains a few more lines than it has now
and that your "newsfeeds" is properly set up to accept this new distribution
without leaking it to people who have not subscribed to the service.

i do not intend to enforce personal policies with this mechanism; for example,
although i think alt.flame and alt.conspiracy are stupid, worthless newsgroups,
i have no wish to delete either of them.  i do not want to restrict the people
from their apparently-god-given right to create a chaotic mess of alt groups.
all i want is a way to wipe out the ones that aren't in use, rename the ones
that should be renamed, and so on.  for example, there is an
alt.missing-children newsgroup that noone uses because it was supplanted by
alt.missing-kids.  this kind of junk is useless to *everyone*.

i want to stress that noone will be affected by this except sites who are
explicitly a part of the alt.cabal.  unless you have requested a subscription,
your site should never receive one of my control messages.

we're still getting some techno-bugs worked out, but we should be set up in a
few days.  subscription requests should be sent to alt.cabal@vix.com for now;
we will work to get the distribution network set up before any control messages
are issued.

i can't wait to hear the flames from people who insist that this is unfair
in some way.  given that it is strictly voluntary and requires explicit action
to receive the control messages, i am not going to be terribly receptive to
complaints.  but send them anyway, they should be amusing.

PS. i considered "alt.sewer" rather than "alt.cabal" in case anyone wondered..
--
Paul Vixie, DEC Network Systems Lab	
Palo Alto, California, USA         	"Don't be a rebel, or a conformist;
<vixie@pa.dec.com> decwrl!vixie		they're the same thing, anyway.  Find
<paul@vix.com>     vixie!paul		your own path, and stay on it."  -me
From: tjw@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: No, don't (Was: Re: eschew moderated alt newsgroups)
Date: 26 Jan 93 03:57:56 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <930122.131408.8R1.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk>, mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes:

> davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen) writes:

>>   If there were a person willing and able to do the job, who had more
>> adequate social skills, I'd favor dumping a change. As it is, his
>> technical execution of the job is acceptable, and no one seems ready to
>> step forward and do the work both competently and pleasantly.

> Yes, if only Kent Paul Dolan was here, I'm sure we could persuade him to do
> the job.

This "cheap shot" could have been a lot worse.  He COULD have said
"Ted Kaldis" ;-)

Seriously, if JIK can remember that this is ALT, I think he'll do fine.  Like
they USED to say on news.groups, "They're Guidelines, Not Rules... OK, they
really ARE rules, but we'll pretend they're Guidelines... D*MMIT! I just HATE
it when you guys don't follow the RULES!!!!... VOTE FRAUD! VOTE FRAUD!"

This is ALT.  You can't expect anyone to be too serious.  If you do, you'll
be *seriously* disappointed.

Terry
From: tjw@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: announcing the alt.cabal
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:07:56 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1k4ihcINNcv4@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>, jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens) writes:

> In other words, can someone subscribe to the alt.cabal but choose to apply its
> control messages at his discretion?   Or are you requiring that all members of
> the alt.cabal obey all (authentic) alt.cabal control messagse?

Sheesh! (or Furrfu!) Jonathan!  This is the ALT net.  When we say, "They're
Guidelines Not Rules [tm]", we mean it!

(It's a rule that they are "Guidelines", by the way)

Nobody (not even you) could force anyone to obey any control message.

What where you expecting?  Some sort of SPANISH INQUISITION? ;-)

I think this "alt.cabal" is a great idea.  I think it will save me a lot of
work.

Terry