From: davidy@sumax.seattleu.edu (Stimpson J. Cat)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: 040 and 486_ (bunch O' Kaka anyway)
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:14:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: sumax.4122
Organization: Seattle University, Seattle WA

In article <1992Apr16.192143.9291@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> nap42487@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Nishith A. Patel) writes:
>To Mike, Ifyou believe that you have to do so much work and overhead just to
>program the 80x86, then you are obviously are NOT very good at it, and you will
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


	I would like to ask you this, Nishith.... how good are YOU at coding
for the 80x86 series? How much code have you written for either processor?
If you are a 80x86 expert then I will take your word for this. However,based
on the number of erroneous statments you have made, I find it hard to believe
you are experienced at any sort of assembly language program. I would appreciate
correction should I be mistaken.

	Mike, at least, has proven he can program in assembly for various
processors. He has several commerical products demonstrating this skill. Before
you and Jerry Shekel start ridiculing him, why don't either of you list your
qualifications? Not that Mike's qualifications make him unquestionable, but 
from where I am standing, what he has is far more then what Nishith has shown.

	As for Jerry, you have good knowledge but I think this group is getting
to you, your responses are getting rather petty IMHO. I am not a expert in
programmming either CPU (680x0 or 80x86) but I have had to do both. For my
money, Mike is right. If you know one assembly language, it is mainly a matter
of learning the syntax and opcodes for the other processor. It is true there
are special tricks and some unique instructions, but it is more the exeception
than the rule. It might take longer on the new processor. Probably would
take longer. 

	Of course, you do have things like the segmented architecture of
the 80x86 series. For benchmarks, though, I doubt this would be much of a
problem. This is assuming our benchmarks are rather small in size. I would
agree with both of the gentlemen above, were the programs to be coded large
applications or even a operating system. But what I am trying to say here is
that changing from one assembly language to another is mainly a matter of
geting the reference manual to the new language you want to learn. That is
how I am learning to program the NS32000- all they gave us was its reference
manual.

	Before Jerry reviles me as another rabid Amigan, I would like to point
out that I think the segemented architecture of the 80386 and above is a 
bonus, not a detriment. You can choose whether you want to program in segments
or simply use one huge segement, and this is a advangtage. The call gate
mechanism is also a bonus. If you have to pay the price for these features
in increased instruction set complexity, so be it. Prior to the 80386 you
paid the price and didn't get much in return. However, you can throw my vote
in for the 680x0 series as being much easier to program, and much nicer to
program for. I have no comment on the superiority of the final code for one
CPU compared to another, I am not qualified to tell anyone that. The 680x0 is
just nicer and easier. Jerry says orthogonality isn't everything, and that
is true. But if you give it up, then I expect to get something in return. The
80386 does give you something in return. IMHO, its predecessors did not.
 

>someone proficient in it just by reading a few things about it. If you still
>honestly beleive this is true, then would you mind letting an Intel programmer
>develop code for both if there was some kind of comparison being done. Oh, I
>know, The Intel programmer will be biased and produce junk for the m68k. But
>obviously it will not work the other way around, right?

	Nishith, Mike has already stated *Intel's* in-house programmers, who
presumably know a thing or two about the 80x86 series, and Motorola's 
programmers have tried their hand at various benchmarks. Motorola appeared to
have the edge. If you dispute this, then please say so and tell us why, but
don't ignore it. Just because you choose to doesn't mean other's will. 
Especially those whom you are trying to convince.

>Nish Patel   nap42487@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu




				David L. Yee
			email to:davidy@sumax.seattleu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy