HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: h0944539@vm2.cn.usta.edu (Risan Huang)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Fuck IFCSS
Date: 9 Nov 92 08:57:39 GMT
Organization: University of Science and Technology of Atlanta


Fuck All IFCSS!!!!!!
Fuck All CMFN Supporter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fuck Again and Again............
Fuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "(Xiaowen Li)" <lix@CRSA.BU.EDU>
Subject:      Re:  MFN, Clinton and IFCSS
Reply-To: "(Xiaowen Li)" <lix@CRSA.BU.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 02:44:49 GMT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

Yuan M Jiang wrote:
>Again, it should be pointed out that China will not lose MFN.  Only
>the products from state-owned companies will lose the tariff benefit.

Yes, but that is only "Yi Xiang Qin Yuan". Nobody is sure what will be
the response from the other side and final consequence. Many tragedies
in this world, occured because one side did not know the other's bottom
line.

Now we even don't know what is BC`s real China policy yet:-) So I
tend to agree with JH Li, wait and see. I never feel there is significant
defference between UCMFN'ers and CMFN'ers. Both wish not to hurt Chinese
people but want to push China better. But before dust settles down, no
way to calculate, then nothing to debate:-(
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: zl@apollo.hp.com
Subject: RE: Reasons for Japan's China policy.
Originator: zl@pace
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 16:03:33 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company

Weize Wade Xiong wrote:
>The Japanese, so far, has shown little friendly gesture toward China. Politicaly
>they have failed  to apologize for their actions during the World War II. 
>Economicaly, they have invested very little in China. I think there are 3 main
>reasons behind these policies.
>1) The evil Japnaese Nationalism has not died in Japan. In fact, it is growing
>with Japan's economic strength. Young Japanese Know little about their
>Grandfather's crimes in China.
>2) The fear toward the Chinese Communist Goverment pervent the Japanese companies
>from puting their money inside China. This also pervent Japanese Goverment from
>getting to close to China.
>3) Another fear that Japanese have, is the growth of China will outweight Japan's
>economic super power position in the FarEast. They are affrid of a Super China.

All of above could be good reasons.  There is another very important and subtle
reason:
4) Japan doesn't want to get too close to China until westerners say yes.
She wants to maintain an image in the eyes of westerners that she is civilized.
She doesn't want to be alienated by westerners by flirting with the barbaric 
and communist China.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "(Ming Cheng)" <cheng@CS.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject:      "HOME" work
Reply-To: "(Ming Cheng)" <cheng@CS.BUFFALO.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 18:11:11 GMT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

"if IFCSS really cares about Chinese people," (using some netter's wording)
IFCSS may need to do some other kind of HOME work, go back to China and ask
the common Chinese people if they want CMFN or MFN, or how do they think of
IFCSS (its mission are for Chinese ... ...) if China lost MFN and IFCSS took
it as a risk it can stand. ( most of us will not take the risk to go back
China for good and benefit from green card bill).
As a democracy Org.( not a savor)  of Chinese, IFCSS has to do what the most
of Chinese want ( not what other people what).
  Shen Tong has shown the people in home are so great that they don't even
care they will be arrested and the people in outside don't even know who they
are ( Hope that those powerful and China-caring  people are keep trying to save
 those people who were arrested after meeting with shen as they did for shen).
So it is not very hard  for CND or IFCSS to conduct some poll about MFN  in
China to see what the most of Chinese want.
  I trust CND and IFCSS no matter what kind of conclusion they will  get and how
they will get it so long as they get it from Home but not from some "advisors".

Cheng Ming
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "(Shizhong Chen)" <chen%molly@SDSC.EDU>
Subject:      re: the congratulation letter to Clinton
Reply-To: "(Shizhong Chen)" <chen%molly@SDSC.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:21:28 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

Dear Mr. Dawei Zhou:

	You are very quick at seizing the opportunity. However, there is
a difference between your hero Dr. Zhao Haiqing and (even:-) Bush. Bush
is there now to ensure a smooth transition of the Administration and to
"finish some unfinished business". Do you know how many MINUTES (right,
not HOURS) your hero ZHQ spent in the HQ in the MONTH that was supposed
to be a transition period? Also, I can guarantee you that Bush will not
start a "new business" and fight with Clinton for whatever Clinton's
Administration may accomplish.

	Please don't try to stir up the water again and make something
out of nothing. It is only going to haunt you and your hero.

	Thank you for your attention!

Shizhong Chen
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: xchen@NEWTA1.CS.UIUC.EDU (Xiangfeng Chen)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re:  Service Message
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:11:45 GMT
Reply-To: Xiangfeng Chen <xchen@NEWTA1.CS.UIUC.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu, POSTMASTER@uga.cc.uga.edu

This is a reporton my message.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu)
Subject: Re: MFN, Clinton and IFCSS
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Distribution: na 
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:02:06 GMT

In article <(~{5K6,F=~})DENG.92Nov9093529@math12.bunny.rhic.bnl.gov> deng@bunny.rhic.bnl.gov (~{5K6,F=~}) writes:
>
>  Yuan> Again, it should be pointed out that China will not lose MFN.  Only
>  Yuan> the products from state-owned companies will lose the tariff benefit.
>  Yuan> This may not be a bad thing because it will force the encourage the
>  Yuan> state-owned companies to be converted to private owned.
>
>Given the way you present your argument, May I ask why it's so desirable to
>convert even those SUCCESSFUL state-owned companies into private-owned? Is
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

'cause Boris Yeltsin says so!  ;->  Look, how great the privatization
in Russia is!  Everybody now is earning 6000 rubles instead of 600
rubles a year ago when the state owns the factories!  ;->
Not to mention that all the money they have now are all crispy new
fresh from the printing factory!  ;->  

>"private-owned" some kind of magic potion?;-).  I just have a problem with
>blindly worshipping "semi-truth".
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu)
Subject: Re: MFN under Clinton's administration
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Distribution: na  
Date: 10 Nov 92 17:38:35 GMT

In article <wshi.721351145@ponder> wshi@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Weiping Shi) writes:
>In <1992Nov8.234942.9313@usl.edu> kxd5425@usl.edu (Du Kaisheng) writes:
>
>>If you think that the rights to have elementary education and the right to
>>have at least some food to eat, a shelter to live in are not part of human
>>right, we do not have any common ground to discuss this problem. Your "
>>human right" is too fancy for me to understant.
>
>I bet the other guy is right, that human right does not
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>include food and shelter.  Haven't you understand that human
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Therefore, if CCP prison guards starve a prisoner to death,
they did not violate the prisoner's human rights.  so what is
all these people complain about?   

>right does not equal to "human's basic right"?


Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Yuan M Jiang <ymj1@CUNIXB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Names and addresses, Human Rights in China
Reply-To: Yuan M Jiang <ymj1@CUNIXB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 01:23:55 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.bitnet

Human Rights in China (HRiC) is a non-political organization with the purpose
of promoting human rights in China according to the United Nation
Declaration of Human Rights.  It has its headquarter in New York, USA.
However, many of its board directors are in China, for example, Yu HaoCheng,
Wang RuoShui and Guo LuoJi.  It contacts people in China regularly.

This holiday season, HRiC will send greeting cards to people in China. Our
hope is to reach a  a vast array of people who are concerned  with or
interested in human rights issues.  The purpose of this outreach mailing is to
let people who suffer human rights violations in China know that we care
about them and we hope to work on their behalf.  We also want to reach
people who are concerned.  Please send us  the names and addresses of
people you know in China who would apprecite receiving such a card.

You may mail the names and addresses in China to
Huamn Rights in China
485 Fifth Ave., 3Fl
New York, NY  10017
USA

or send them to this email address in PinYin with tones and meaning stated
so that we can figure out the correct Chinese characters.  Uuencoded or Hz
coded GB files are better.

Thanks.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "JAMES J. CEN" <phsjjc@EMRYCC.CC.EMORY.EDU>
Subject:      RE: "HOME" work
Reply-To: "JAMES J. CEN" <phsjjc@EMRYCC.CC.EMORY.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 18:42:00 GMT
Comments: cc: cheng <cheng@cs.buffalo.edu>

"(Ming Cheng)" <cheng@CS.BUFFALO.EDU> writes:

>if IFCSS really cares about Chinese people," (using some netter's wording)
>IFCSS may need to do some other kind of HOME work, go back to China and ask
>the common Chinese people if they want CMFN or MFN, or how do they think of
>IFCSS (its mission are for Chinese ... ...) if China lost MFN and IFCSS took
>it as a risk it can stand. ( most of us will not take the risk to go back
>China for good and benefit from green card bill).
>As a democracy Org.( not a savor)  of Chinese, IFCSS has to do what the most
>of Chinese want ( not what other people what).

	Very good point.

>  Shen Tong has shown the people in home are so great that they don't even
>care they will be arrested

	I would take exception to that assertion.  Many people got arrested
because of Shen Tong.  These are great people.  But they did not choose to
be exposed and arrested.

>			   and the people in outside don't even know who they
>are (Hope that those powerful and China-caring people are keep trying to save
> those people who were arrested after meeting with shen as they did for shen).
>So it is not very hard  for CND or IFCSS to conduct some poll about MFN  in
>China to see what the most of Chinese want.

	Again, there is a lesson to be learned.  We should be very prudent
to conduct politically sensitive opinion polls in China.  It is safe for us
to talk about lofty goals of democracy and human rights, while folks in China
are breaking their backs trying to get a decent life.  I think it is simply
indecent to risk putting innocent people in harm's way to make one's point.

>I trust CND and IFCSS no matter what kind of conclusion they will get and how
>they will get it so long as they get it from Home but not from some "advisors".

	As Ol' Ron Reagan would say, "trust but verify."

>Cheng Ming
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,soc.culture.china
From: yawei@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (~{QG9p~})
Subject: Patriotism is the Opium of the Mass (was Re: Chinese, Are You Jealous)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 01:39:57 GMT


I think it is admirable that Eddie Cheng and Hu Ping and the rest of
Beijing University had this brief taste of democracy, but using that
to defend the CCP-run "motherland" is just pitiful and dispicable.

Let's not forget that the episode in Beida was anything but the 
norm in China. Not to mention that what happened in Beida during
and after the "election incident" was not exactly in the spirit
of free competition either.

A "vote", my friends, is not simply casting a piece of paper into
a box.  When opposition parties cannot legally exist, when there
is no freedom of speech for anyone not going with the official
line, there is no such thing as a "vote", not in my book, no sir.

So my friends, Eddie Cheng included, you may go around happily
singing your great patriotic songs "WE TOO CAN VOTE IN CHINA" if
you so desires.  I know it is very psychologically fulfilling to
you. I know that a patriot can never tolerate any bad mouthing of 
his "country".  I envy your ability of self-illusion. How I wish
reality can change to fit what you think ...

Patriotism is the opium of the mass.


    Ya-Gui Wei
From: SXS30@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Who is D-fighter?
Date: 9 Nov 92 00:51:36 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

After reading so many D-fighter-bash post, I am getting lost
a little. I am not sure if someone ever declared he/she is a
Dfighter in the net, but creat a non-exist people or group to
punch is not fun. Lable yourself as anti-D-fighter not make sense
at all since you know no one is going to explain on behavoir of
d-f. Even if there is a issue to be concerned, I don't think
so called D-fighters have same concept. So, to be speciafy instead of
bashing D-fighter.
S.S
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Su Jianfeng)
Subject: Test ! 
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 09:25:30 GMT

Test, too ! 


Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Undetermined origin c/o Postmaster <POSTMASTER@UGA.BITNET>
Subject:      Service Message
Reply-To: Undetermined origin c/o Postmaster <POSTMASTER@UGA.BITNET>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 03:12:21 GMT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

Report on your message to: /R=AM/U=YUNFENG/@mrgate.uwyo.edu
Reason: Failed to transfer; communications failure (0)
Arrival-date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 20:12:21 MST
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "D-P Deng (O-516-282-2197)" <deng@BUNNY.RHIC.BNL.GOV>
Subject:      IFCSS June 4th Foundation: tax evasion?
Reply-To: "D-P Deng (O-516-282-2197)" <deng@BUNNY.RHIC.BNL.GOV>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 21:59:26 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

------- Forwarded Message
From Eddie Cheng's bi-weekly report
....

4/17  Council Financial Committee reports that the IFCSS June 4th
Foundation had been suspended since July, 1991, for failing to file tax
returns and mishandling of the matter from IFCSS' side.  Apperantly nobody
even *knew* this matter until the Committee found an unopened evenlop in
HQ which had been there for more than half year.
....
------- End of Forwarded Message


What's the deal with IFCSS June 4th Foundation now?

/dp
Xref: sparky talk.politics.china:2509 soc.culture.china:29725
From: kzhang@cisco.com (Kui Zhang)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Lu Gang
Date: 5 Nov 1992 21:25:40 GMT
Organization: cisco Systems, Incorporated
Distribution: dal
NNTP-Posting-Host: regal.cisco.com

In article <Bwy7pr.B0x@cs.dal.ca>, poppy@open.dal.ca (Y.S. "Poppy" Shen) writes:
|> In <BwxxII.6nC@cs.psu.edu> echeng@phys.psu.edu (Eddie Cheng) writes:
|> 
|> >	This weekend marks the one-year anniversary of Lu Gang's killing
|> >and suicide.
|> 
|> 
|> >	 Eddie
|> 
|> If the Protection Bill had passed one year earlier, would he have had
|> killed people and himself ?  

I don't think so. 

One big problem Lu faced was unable to find a compatible job in his field.
With his qualification (Ph.D), a green card won't help much in finding a job.

A green card would not resolve his complaint either.

.kui
From: ymj1@CUNIXB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU (Yuan M Jiang)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re:  MFN, Clinton and IFCSS
Date: 8 Nov 92 02:16:09 GMT
Reply-To: Yuan M Jiang <ymj1@CUNIXB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu, XIAOJIAN@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU

>campaign against Bush, Clinton may have to be sticked to CMFN, which
>most likely, if not definitely, causes China to lose MFN to avoid others

Again, it should be pointed out that China will not lose MFN.  Only
the products from state-owned companies will lose the tariff benefit.
This may not be a bad thing because it will force the encourage the
state-owned companies to be converted to private owned.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: JIANG@UORHEP.BITNET
Subject: (none)
Reply-To: JIANG@UORHEP.BITNET
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 14:08:00 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

sign off please.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "(Xiaowen Li)" <lix@CRSA.BU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Posibility of a practical bill to get positive response
Reply-To: "(Xiaowen Li)" <lix@CRSA.BU.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:36:47 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU

Kevin wrote:
>Though the analogies between the pro-CMFN faction of CSS and
>Hitler/Khroschoff are not very good,

Well, Khroschoff is the same example of yours:-)

>I agree that a thoughtful estimation is one of the key issues of current
>debate about a likely CMFN bill next
>spring in the US Congress.

So we do have a lot of common ground.

>(deleted)
>So, we will have a big, and influential, team of "alliance" from HK business
>circle working from a quite differnt front to help improve HR situation in
>China. But this could happen ONLY when a "real" CMFN is seen at the horison.

Not necessarily. I think your home work assignment #5 should be done
immediately. See, CG is not sure what will be in BC's HuLu. This should
be a good chance for lobbying CG. I'd like to suggest a few IFCSS GaoGan's
join HK business circle to push for some real improvement especially to
release some small potatos who can't be used as bargain chips.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: UFDZ@UFPINE.BITNET
Subject:      re: the congratulation letter to Clinton
Reply-To: UFDZ@UFPINE.BITNET
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:14:00 GMT

        Re: the congratulation letter of IFCSS HQ to Clinton

        Mr. Geng Xiao, I am glard to see you have sent a congratulation
letter to Mr. Clinton, and you call him president-elect, This is the
correct title. Should IFCSS HQ learn something from this correct title?
I wish any confusion about President and president-elect will never show
up again!
                thank you for your consideration!
                                        Dawei Zhou, Florida
From: txt15@po.CWRU.Edu (Tao Tao)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: MFN under Clinton's administration
Date: 6 Nov 1992 06:39:06 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


IMHO, it depends on two things: how improved the U.S. economy is, and how 
cooperative the CCP government is with the new U.S. administration (on trade
and international affairs).

My guess is the implementation of cfmn is most probable.  This will hurt the 
Chinese economy since China gets one billion greenbacks from this freeland
every year.

Tao
##
-- 
p
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: kxd5425@usl.edu (Du Kaisheng)
Subject: Re:      Re: MFN under Clinton's administration
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 23:49:42 GMT

In article <9303@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> yndst2+@pitt.edu (Yong Duan) writes:
>In article <1992Nov7.004024.3559@usl.edu> kxd5425@usl.edu (Du Kaisheng) writes:
>>In article <Bx9yBr.As@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> "(Jinghong Li)" <jli@AMSC01.ENGR.UDAYTON.EDU> writes:
>>>>From: YAO@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU
>>>>  ........
>>>
>>>........
>
>>                    And do you know many children can not finish elementary
>>school because of poverity? Should their basic human right - to have the
>>elementary education - be respected? 
>
>I don't know exactly what is the definition of "human rights".
>But I do know "to have the elementary education" is not part of it.
>"poverty" or not is not the part of "human rights" either.
>
>>
If you think that the rights to have elementary education and the right to
have at least some food to eat, a shelter to live in are not part of human
right, we do not have any common ground to discuss this problem. Your "
human right" is too fancy for me to understant.
From: ph279sw@prism.gatech.EDU (FR SIGING WEI)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: MFN under Clinton's administration
Date: 13 Nov 92 17:17:25 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


Clinton promised to be tough on China ?

Come one, the whole thing is a political game called "change", 
so if Bush gives China MFN, Clinton opposes it. Oh, about all 
the promises made during the campaign, those are not under 
oath, hence no harm done if not kept (or even lied about them).

Furthermore, when Clinton is president, the congress will not
make a scene on the MFN, so everything will go quite, politics
is politics. And worse of all, President-elect Clinton does
not have a clue on foriegn policy.

Still remember Jimmy Carter?
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: JCCE@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU
Subject: (none)
Reply-To: JCCE@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 06:23:34 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

It is clear that CSS are wondering what Clinton will do as President.
My guess is that Nancy Pelosi will be a primary Clinton advisor on the
issue of CMFN.  Given that she was his assistant campaign chair, chair
of the DNC platform committee, and is the top candidate to replace Ron
Brown as chair of the entire DNC, Nancy Pelosi is now one of the most
powerful people in Washington.  She will be an important factor in the CMFN
issue.  My advice is to work with and through her.  Any "education" effort
should start with her.  She is your strongest ally and now an extremely
powerful "national" politician.  Good Luck.

John Capece
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Su Jianfeng)
Subject: Re:  MAY ADJUST STRATEGY?? on MFN
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 05:27:43 GMT

In article <Bx98q4.Cw0@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> Yuan M Jiang <ymj1@CUNIXB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU> writes:
>>became the president, China may lost his MFN status under Clinton's
>>>for what reason, the China's democracy and Human right progress may even be
>
>I hope people understand the current CMFN bill better before we discuss
>about strategy.
>
>1) The current bill does remove MFN tariff benefit to products from
>PRIVATE owned manufactures if CCP fail to improve human rights condition.
>2) It only impose higher tariff to government owned companies.
>
>Think about it.  The government owned companies either have to privatize
>or have to pay the private companies to export to the US.
>This is a double edged sword.  China's economy will win either way.
>It will either improve the human rights situation or expand
>the private business in China.
>
>I hope people can study the new bill and throw away the misconception
>that the CMFN bill will hurt Chinese economy.

Two questions:

1)  How can the USA custom to separate the private and state owned
manufactured ?  Will you care about the products sources ?  One of the
evidences is the toycott held by a group of D-fighters who boycott all
of the toys from Mainland China.

2)  Can and should the government owned companies be privated in only
one year ?



J Su
      Go ahead!  I am waiting for political prostitutes to show up !
      
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Undetermined origin c/o Postmaster <POSTMASTER@UGA.BITNET>
Subject:      Service Message
Reply-To: Undetermined origin c/o Postmaster <POSTMASTER@UGA.BITNET>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 02:23:54 GMT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

Report on your message to: /R=AM/U=YUNFENG/@mrgate.uwyo.edu
Reason: Failed to transfer; communications failure (0)
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Newsgroups: talk.politics.china