HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ptimmerm@kathy.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Timmerman)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: RE: Anyone like Montery Brewing Company?
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:50:23 GMT
Reply-To: ptimmerm@kathy.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Timmerman)
Organization: Jpl.Nasa.Gov


>I've been down to visit the Monterey Brewing Company several times and
>for the past year or so it seems every one of their brews has had a
>bad off-flavor.  I usually go with a few friends, and we are all in
>agreement that if our beer tasted like that we'd throw out all our
>tubes and buckets and re-sanitize all the glass.  But lots of people
>were there drinking up, and the people who work there just say some 
>people really like the beer there.  I just wondered if anyone else
>has been there and whether they noticed the same thing we did.
>
>Brian Myers

I was there around christmass and talked with the owner about the beer.  He didn't
give away much about what he was doing, although I did go downstairs to look around.
I tend to think it is intentional.  He did a cherry beer which wasn't bottled, which
perfectly complimented the twang in their beers.  Mabey he's intentionally introducing
some lactic acid producing bacteria.  It was noticable in all of his beers, but wasn't
out of control, like in some other beers I've had.  What was that stuff,? ... Dead Cat
Ale?  Now that was a little past drinkable!

Paul Timmerman ptimmerm@kathy.jpl.nasa.gov
From: jdg00@ccc.amdahl.com (Josh Grosse)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Oh where, oh where, has the brewoff gone?
Summary: Sorry, Mark, but I can't e-mail you directly
Date: 14 Apr 92 15:17:03 GMT
Reply-To: jdg00@amail.amdahl.com (Josh Grosse)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

Mark, back in December you scheduled a competition for members of this
USENet newsgroup.  We were to submit beers to you in Washugal, WA by
mid-February.

I understand that 40 of us did so.

What ever happened to our competition?  I never received any results.
When we last communicated, you had scheduled the judging for mid March.

Am I the only competitor who cares about the results?
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Josh Grosse                                jdg00@amail.amdahl.com
Amdahl Corp.                               313-358-4440
Southfield, Michigan
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: cmilono@netcom.com (Carlo Milono)
Subject: Re: CO2/Alcohol production (oops!)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 03:23:31 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Somewhere in the S.F. Bay Area

Oops!  I had read my Miller book late last night, and went "Hmmm".  I
was a bit distracted by some goings-on and then went to bed.  Later the
next day, I though about the CO2/Alcohol and posted a bit in haste.

Actually, now that I think about it, CO2 *must* be produced if the little
beasts are to live.  I believe the formula Miller had was:

(with O2) C6.H12.O6 + 6*O2 --> 6*H2O + 6*CO2
                  [no alcohol]

(without O2) C6.H12.O6 --> 2*CO2 + 2*C2H5OH (ethyl alcohol)

This would explain why there is more CO2 production during the earlier 
phases, when there is still O2 in the wort.

There was something about the Crabtree Effect that had gotten me confused.

-- 
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|            Carlo Milono:  cmilono@netcom.com                             |
|      "The Sun ain't Yellow: it's Chicken!" - Bob Dylan                   |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: abirenbo@rigel.cel.scg.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Yeast Energizer vs. Yeast Nutrient
Date: 8 Apr 92 14:13:46 GMT
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Colorado Engineering Labs

In article <702691217.F00005@blkcat.UUCP> John.DeCarlo@p109.f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org (John DeCarlo) writes:
>On <Apr 06 16:34>, Frosty D. Snowman (frosty@mentor.cc.purdue.edu ) wrote:
>
> FD >The title says it all.  I am about to make my first batch of mead, and
> FD >plan on using yeast nutrient...but I see yeast energizer everwhere.  It is
> FD >rather expensive, so could someone please fill me in on the differences.
>
>I don't know the difference, but Great Fermentations (the Beverage People) 
>have a mead yeast nutrient mixture.  I haven't seen it locally, but they claim 
>that it makes a big difference in shortening the aging time of meads.
>  

I am not the most experienced mead brewer, but walt, a guy who used
to work for a local homebrew retailer is very highly respected by
mead makers around denver (especially SCA members).  He advises
STRONGLY against using nutrients.  They do make the ferment MUCH
faster, but the resulting mead needs to AGE longer, before the
nutrient flavors subside.  He believes that compounds left
by energisers/nutrients do create off flavors.  His advise is
to plan for your mead ferment to take a LOOOOOOONG time for a 
straight mead.  The best solutionis to make a fruit-mead.  The
fruit will provide the yeast with nutrients and no off-flavors.
Besides, the fruit meads are quite tasty.  (although i like a good
straightmead too).

  Try cranberries, and omit the acid in your mead recipe.
My cranberry mead is my best yet.  (and its still REAL young).
Oh... i did use nutrient on the cranberry mead, so If you
want mead in less than a year...  go ahead and use nutrient.
Now that i have a stock on mead, I'm going to start leavingthe
nutrient out.

--
Aaron Birenboim                                |I am just too tired to think
abirenbo%rigel.cel.scg.hac.com@hac2arpa.hac.com|of a good quote.
abirenbo@isis.cs.du.edu                        |    - ChickenHead
w (303) 344-6486                               |
From: bright@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Bob Bright)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Combining liquid and dry extracts
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:53:32 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

In article <1992Apr7.144848.39@sdg.dra.com> stephen@sdg.dra.com writes:
>Lazy Sunday Steam Beer
>
>3.3   lb  Pale Malt Extract Syrup
>2     lb  Pale Malt Extract Powder
>0.75  lb  Crystal Malt 60L
>1.5   oz  Northern Brewer (45-60 min boil) 35 IBUs
>0.5   oz  Hallertau (dry hopped, secondary)
>	  WYeast #2112 California Lager

I've seen a number of recipes like this one which call for both liquid
and dry malt extract.  I'm wondering whether there are any general
benefits to doing this.  What I mean is: If your favorite liquid
extract has certain flavor characteritics that you want in a brew, and
your favorite dry extract has certain other characteristics that you
also want, it makes eminent sense to combine them.  But if you're just
using the cheapest generic extracts that you can get your hands on at
the moment, is there any advantage to using a dollop of each rather
than just one or the other?

BBB
-- 
Bob Bright                |    E-mail: bright@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Dept. of Philosophy       |    FAX:    (204) 261-0021
University of Manitoba    |    Voice:  (204) 474-9105
Winnipeg, Man  R3T 2M8    |
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: juancho@cs.ubc.ca (John (juancho) Buchanan)
Subject: elderflowers
Summary: Are west coast elderflowers ok?
Keywords: wine
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 16:55:50 GMT

I have found an interesting recipe for a Rhubarb hock.  This recipe calls
for elderflowers.  I know that the orange elderberries which grow wild 
on the Canadian west coast are not useable for wine since they contain
to much oil, however I was wondering if the flowers could be used.  I looked
up these plants in a book and they claimed that the orange elderberries were
not poisonous but rather were looked down on because of their taste
characteristics.  If anyone out there has any information on this please let
me know.  

	thanks

	juancho
From: dvac@druwa.ATT.COM (Daniel Vachon)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Needed backissues of hbd
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:59:09 GMT
Distribution: rec

Help!  Somehow my copies of HBD #854 and #859 were lost in the E-mail
netherworld....  Can someone either re-post them or mail em to me.  

Thanks!   - Dan
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: ricks@ima.isc.com (Darth Vader)
Subject: Re: Austin, TX Belgian??
Organization: Subversive Systems
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 22:48:14 GMT

Here is the scoop on the Selles(Celles?) brewery in Austin:
A friend called them wanting to tour the brewery and was told that
the opening of the brewery was delayed due to problems with
their new equipment, pipes or something.  They said it should be
opening SOON(another month or two).

:--> Beware the swill disguised as Beer(AKA Bud, Coors, Miller), it's NOT!
-- 
+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+---
                HOMEBREWERS GET MO' BETTA HEAD
+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+---
O---->> These are my views, not necessarily those of my employer! <<----O
From: sarisky@a.chem.upenn.edu (Mark J. Sarisky)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Sulfur smell during ferment
Date: 15 Apr 92 13:45:39 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Apr13.225056.28839@intelhf.hf.intel.com> martin@hfglobe.UUCP (martin wilde) writes:
>Since this is the first lager I have brewed I don't know what to expect.
>I am noticing a sulfur smell from my fermentation.  I am using Wyeast
>2206 Bavarian Lager.  I pitched a large healthy amount of yeast and 
>fermenting at 44 degrees.  The yeast quickly took off and has just passed 
>high krausen (I replaced the blow-off with an airlock).  The smell is
>not overwhelming, just noticeable.  
>
>Has anyone else noticed this???


I have.  The brew was a honey augmented Coopers lager kit and the beer ended
up drinkable after a good 5 months of bottle conditioning.  The yeast used 
was  Whitbread's Lager and the smell started potent and ended up mellowing 
by the bottling.  After a month, the bottled beer had a decided funky smell,
sorta sulfurous, which finally became unnoticable by 5 months.  I contend
that the cause was a poor choice of honey---not natural---and not anything
else in this case.  Again, time can cover many sins.  Isn't brewing grand?

Mark
sarisky@a.chem.upenn.edu
From: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Irish Moss use
Date: 17 Apr 92 19:01:23 GMT
Reply-To: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

In article <bmv1hc.4eb@wang.com> jdr@wang.com (Joe Rolfe) writes:
>A very different way of using compared to what the package says.
>I was told that the moss losses some of it effects during boiling.
>I have not tried it yet on my homebrews but plan on giving it a shot.

My last two batches (~7lbs pale malt, 1lb 40lcrystal) were identical
except in the type of hops and the use of irish moss. The first batch
had none, and it was extremely hazy (both mashed ~155f btw), though
tasty. Last batch I added a tbsp. irish moss at the end of the boil, and
it is *crystal clear*. No haze problems, chill or otherwise.

JADP (just another datapoint)

David Poore
poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: brown@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (john.carl.brown)
Subject: Brew with Sourdough Yeast?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 13:05:41 GMT

  This is kind of strange, but some friends just returned from
a trip to San Francisco, and while they were there they saw
a package of sourdough starter and thought I could use it
in brewing beer.  So now I have it, and they expect me to
make beer with it.  What the hell would you do with sourdough
yeast in brewing beer?  Could I use it to sour sweet wort before
boiling and make some sort of weird west coast lambic-type creation?
  Any ideas?
Thanks,
John Carl Brown
From: pepke@gw.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Recipes for Belgian witbier?
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:34:07 GMT
Organization: Florida State University, but I don't speak for them

In article <122410005@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> benji@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff 
Benjamin) writes:
> And a question for you all-grain brewers out there:  how might I have to
> change my mashing procedure to convert unmalted wheat?  Will my
> extraction be less than with malted wheat?

Not neccessarily.  Enzymes are catalysts; they'll do the job if you let 
them go long enough.  Just make sure you don't stop until it passes the 
iodine test.

You will have to crush the wheat thoroughly, which is quite a bit harder 
with unmalted wheat.  One thing you might consider is using wheat flour 
instead of granular crushed wheat.  I've done it, and it seems to work 
fine, although I was only trying to raise the alcohol content, not really 
get much of a wheat flavor.  Dave Line said that wheat flour is a common 
adjunct in English beers.  Mix the flour in dry before doughing in the 
water.  

Eric Pepke                                    INTERNET: pepke@gw.scri.fsu.edu
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute MFENET:   pepke@fsu
Florida State University                      SPAN:     scri::pepke
Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052                    BITNET:   pepke@fsu

Disclaimer: My employers seldom even LISTEN to my opinions.
Meta-disclaimer: Any society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.
From: dougd@uts.amdahl.com (Douglas DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Is the HBD reflected into rec.crafts.brewing experiment over?
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:08:48 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In <kubatpINNt2h@paris> aem@paris.cs.miami.edu (a.e.mossberg) writes:

>In digest <9204100700.AA13959@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com>, Douglas DeMers 
> (dougd@uts.amdahl.com) wrote:
>>For a while, HBD was automatically being posted into rec.crafts.brewing.
>>At my site, I've missed the last week or more of HBD in r.c.b.  I far
>>prefer to read HBD in r.c.b and would gladly unsubscribe to HBD if the
>>HBD always made it into r.c.b in a timely manner.  I think it was A.E.
>>Mossberg (aem@mthvax.miami.edu) who was doing the cross-connect as an
>>experiment.

>>Is the experiment over?  Is the cross-posting going to continue?  If so,
>>who is going to do it?

>I believe it's still going on -- did some issues not appear? I see the
>Homebrew Digest for April 10th posted to rec.crafts.brewing.. If some
>issues didn't appear I can post them manually.

Perhaps it was the great disconnection of the internet to mthvax which
caused the problems.  This is the order our site received the r.c.b.
reflections of HBD - (articles prior to 04/05/92 have already been
expired):

3785:HOMEBREW Digest #861 Apr 10 01:56
3788:HOMEBREW Digest #859 Apr 10 08:30
3790:HOMEBREW Digest #857 Apr 10 08:32
3791:HOMEBREW Digest #858 Apr 10 08:32
3792:HOMEBREW Digest #860 Apr 10 08:32
3812:HOMEBREW Digest #862 Apr 13 02:13

It would appear that things are back in order now.  Thanks!
-- 
Douglas DeMers/Amdahl Corporation | (408-746-8546) | dougd@uts.amdahl.com
[ It should be obvious that the opinions above are mine, not Amdahl's.  ]
["When you lay your dreams to rest/You can get what's second best/
  -but you just can't get enough."  David Wilcox _Eye of the Hurricane_.]
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: saroff@uf.msc.edu (Stephen Saroff)
Subject: Problem with Fermentation
Organization: AHPCRC
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 16:54:38 GMT


I have recently  started two batches of beer each with initial specific
gravities of about 1040.  Both seemed to ferment quite nicely for a bit
the kreusen then collapsed as ususal, and things quieted down .

Up to this point everything seemed normal, but now, even after almost two weeks 
using Ale yeast, there seems to be some fermentation (foam on top ) and 
the SG is still around 1020.

Any guesses as to what could be causing this?  I'm not using any non-fermentable 
additives either.
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Stephen Saroff <saroff@msc.edu>          *   o o   *      *   *
Minnesota Supercomputer Center            *  (_)_____o *   *
1200 Washington Ave. S                    ~~~~(_____)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Minneapolis, MN 5514                         (oo)- (oo)-  The Bear who Swims
612/626-1854                                    is snow-shoeing at the moment
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Help control yeast production CO2/Ethanol
From: psantucci@desire.wright.edu
Date: 6 Apr 92 21:58:06 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

Help me Rocket Scientists!
(or microbiologists as the case may be 8-))

I have yet to see someone address scientifically the control of the ratio 
between the twin benevolent waste products of yeast, namely CO2 and ethanol.
How can you tell the beasties to make more of one than the other? This
problem comes to mind now because of disapointing batches of two beverages: 
A dry, strong cider (16%!) that was supposed to be a sweet, sparkling cider,
and a batch of sasparilla that was instead a primitive explosive which cost me
a case of bottles.

I made the cider myself from 5 U.S. gallons of Motts Natural Stlye apple juice,
6 pounds cane sugar, one pound lactose, and 1 packet red star champangne yeast. 
I hoped that the lactose would add sweetness, but it was overcome by near total 
conversion of the sucrose to ethanol. Fermentation was _very_ active, and ran
for nearly 5 weeks before I felt it was safe to bottle. I added the standard
3/4 cup dextrose for priming at bottling time, but the final result isn't
really sparkling and _is_ almost flammable 8-).

I bought the sasparilla extract from Wines Inc. and followed thier packet 
directions exactly. I threw out the directions and can't reproduce them, but
the essence was a _lot_ of sucrose (>= 9 cups), 5 gal. water, the extract and a
small amount of champagne yeast (>= 1/4 tsp. if memory serves). The ingredients
were to be mixed and bottled immediately.

 I wondered to my local homebrew supplier why this would not result in 
high pressure, as the CO2 could not blow off during primary fermentation. He
was uncertain, but suggested that he had heard that champagne yeast were in
some way "pressure sensitive" and would _die_ before exploding a bottle. My
dining room walls and terrified dog bear witness that this is a heinous piece
of misinformation.

Won't someone please tell me the whole story, or refer me to a book which can?
Thanks for your kind attention,
Pat Santucci

e-mail to: santucci@eve.wright.edu
or psantucci@desire.wright.edu
 
Xref: sparky rec.crafts.brewing:2460 rec.food.drink:1517
From: psrc@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Paul S. R. Chisholm)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: New Homebrew Supply Store
Summary: homebrew corner in Spirits Unlimited?
Keywords: store
Date: 13 Apr 92 04:15:37 GMT
Distribution: nj
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

The Red Bank store is great news!

I've heard that Spirits Unlimited (the chain of supermarkets-turned-
liquore-stores, with excellent selections of beer at relatively good
prices) in Middletown has a small collection of homebrewing supplies.
I haven't checked the local (Shrewsbury) store.

Paul S. R. Chisholm, AT&T Bell Laboratories, paul.s.r.chisholm@att.com
att!pegasus!psrc, psrc@pegasus.att.com, AT&T Mail !psrchisholm
I'm not speaking for the company, I'm just speaking my mind.
From: gak@gakbox.Corp.Sun.COM (Richard Stueven)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Anyone like Montery Brewing Company?
Date: 7 Apr 92 16:13:19 GMT
Reply-To: gak@gakbox.Corp.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: gakbox.corp.sun.com

In article rqqkaINN75t@agate.berkeley.edu, mbiggs@garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:
>Can we please move this conversation to alt.beer?  Thank you.

No.  I don't receive alt.beer.

Is there a better place to discuss breweries
and their beers than rec.crafts.BREWING?

---
Richard Stueven       AHA# 22584 |----------| 
Internet:       gak@Corp.Sun.COM |----GO----| Disclaimer:  I'm not allowed
ATTMAIL:         ...!attmail!gak |---SHARX--|              to have opinions.
Cow Palace: Sec 107 Row F Seat 9 |----------|
From: aem@paris.cs.miami.edu (a.e.mossberg)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Is the HBD reflected into rec.crafts.brewing experiment over?
Date: 10 Apr 92 14:52:41 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Mathematics & Computer Science, University of Miami
Reply-To: aem@paris.cs.miami.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: paris.cs.miami.edu

In digest <9204100700.AA13959@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com> 
homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Verify address before sending) writes:

>For a while, HBD was automatically being posted into rec.crafts.brewing.
>At my site, I've missed the last week or more of HBD in r.c.b.  I far
>prefer to read HBD in r.c.b and would gladly unsubscribe to HBD if the
>HBD always made it into r.c.b in a timely manner.  I think it was A.E.
>Mossberg (aem@mthvax.miami.edu) who was doing the cross-connect as an
>experiment.

>Is the experiment over?  Is the cross-posting going to continue?  If so,
>who is going to do it?


I believe it's still going on -- did some issues not appear? I see the
Homebrew Digest for April 10th posted to rec.crafts.brewing.. If some
issues didn't appear I can post them manually.

aem

-- 
a.e.mossberg   -   aem@paris.cs.miami.edu   -   aem@umiami.bitnet
University of Miami Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: vsk@is.morgan.com (Victor Kazdoba)
Subject: Home brew kits
Organization: Morgan Stanley - IS
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 17:47:58 GMT

Does anyone have a list of suppliers of home brewing kits?  If so please mail
or post.

Thanx,
Vic
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Victor Kazdoba                            Office:   (212)703-2051         |
|Morgan Stanley & Co, Inc.               Internet: vsk@katana.is.morgan.com|
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
From: malodah@pbhyf.PacBell.COM (Martin A. Lodahl)
Subject: Re: Anyone like Monterey Brewing Company?
Reply-To: malodah@PacBell.COM (Martin A. Lodahl)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 16:52:25 GMT

In article <21162@hacgate.UUCP> abirenbo@rigel.cel.scg.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim) writes:
>In article <baRg02xObfG000@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> dougd@uts.amdahl.com (Douglas DeMers) writes:
>>
>>Someone more cynical would say that they really have sanitation
>>problems (read: the beer is severely infected).  I've heard this is
>>true for most of the micros and brewpubs.
>
>  i doubt thats true for micros.  But i can see where
>brewpubs could get away with it.  Most of the ones which
>survive sell their beer very fast.  Infections may not
>have enough time to get very severe.

Aaron, ol' Bud, see if you can find a bottle of anything from the Nevada
City Brewery, if you want a reference for a Really Violent Infection.
Find out why Saxton Brewing is no more.  And I could go on.  My own
experience is that Doug is right;  that "clean" micros such as
Sierra Nevada are unfortunately the exception rather than the rule.

-- 
= Martin A. Lodahl    [DoD, AHA, NRA]  Systems Analyst, Pacific*Bell =
= malodah@PacBell.COM		Sacramento, CA, USA     916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!!  8-)} =
From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing
Subject: Re: Cats Meow Volume 2 (uuencoded, split, compressed) part 3 of 3
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:20:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: pegasus.1992Apr13.162011.21358
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu

With regards to the recent posting of `Cats Meow Volumes 1 & 2', volume
1 can be discarded.  It is superceded by volume 2 (more accurately the
second edition).

As the introduction in the second edition says; ``it contains every
recipe that was in the first volume ...''



-- 
Richard Foulk		richard@pegasus.com
Xref: sparky rec.crafts.brewing:2462 rec.food.drink:1519