HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman)
Subject: TANGENT: Re: Do We Need a New newsgroup? 
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 13:04:03 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.202234.11040@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante) writes:
 
>  to all the previous posts on this thread: yes, yes, yes.
>
>  I won't re-iterate all the points in detail, but the evangelical v. other
>  distinction in r.m.c and s.r.c, the threading of not-nuts-and-bolts
>  music stuff in this group, the spontaniety (sp) of an unmoderated group, 
>  etc. i all agree with. 
>
>  the options, as i see it (in decending order of preference)
>  1) keep things as they are. allow threads to get off the track. i like
>     the group of people here.
>  2) add a group s.r.evangelical
>  3) add a group s.r.arts

I'd vote for a new group if/when such a proposal comes up.  My own
preferences would be for a soc.christian.arts or a soc.christian.culture
group rather than soc.christian.evangelical, though.  I *like* the
fact that a wide spectrum of theological viewpoints are represented
on this group, and I think we'd find that a s.c.evangelical group
would be the electronic equivalent of preaching to the choir.

If enough people want it, I'll cast in my "yea."  Having said that,
though, I guess I'd really prefer to keep things as they are.  I
plead guilty to any number of tangents on this group.  But I 
post anyway, knowing that they are tangents, for a couple of reasons.
First, the topics start off as music-related.  As convoluted as 
the Amy/Holiness/Ministry/Career/Image thread has gotten, it
started off as a fairly straightforward discussion about a 
specific performer and a specific music video.  Moving the tangents
to another newsgroup breaks the continuity of the discussion.  Second,
it's often very hard to draw the line between discussing music and
discussing the theological views that underlie our interpretation of
the music.  Is that bad?  Not at all!  In fact, I see this group doing
what I think Christians *ought* to be doing with music - thinking
about it, discussing it, trying to figure out how it fits in to 
what we believe.  You effectively neuter any discussion of Christian
music if you take the theology out of it.  I say leave it in, and 
leave it here.

BUT . . . I know that there are people out there who get annoyed
at the tangents.  I want to respect their wishes too.  So here's a 
suggestion:  If you think your posting has very little relationship
to Christian music, or if you suspect that you're going off on a 
tanget from the initial discussion, put the word "TANGENT" at the
beginning of the subject line, as I've done above.  For all of you who 
only want to read about specific albums, performers, etc., put the word 
"TANGENT" in a kill file.  I'm willing to do this.  Anybody else?  
 
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>john r la plante                    calling from the Ohio State University
>jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  political analysis done while you wait

Andy Whitman
AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus, Ohio
att!cblpn!ajw  or
ajw@cblpn.att.com
From: thomas@mvac23.UUCP (Thomas Lapp)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 15:07:07 EDT
Organization: MultiVac23, Newark, DE, U.S.A.

steiner@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu (jason "Think!" steiner) writes:
> > "Stairway" is considered to be a classic example of a song with
> > backward messages dealing with Satan.  Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin is
> > an avowed follower of Alistair (sp?) Crowley's writings.  I can't
> > remember exactly what "Stairway" says backwards as I have lent mt
> > tape of its message to a friend but it is most definitely satanic.
> 
> i've done some sampling & processing of supposed backmasking and
> Stairway to Heaven has -no- deliberate backmasking. (Def Leppard,
> One Bad Pig and Petra do, on the other hand.) the supposed backmasking

You forgot the backmasking at the end of one side of Prince's
Purple Rain album.

> use. if you're listening closely you can recognize the distinctive
> waveform.

Many people also just try to run the record backwards to hear it.
Best way is to transfer to two-track tape and reverse the tape in
the machine -- that way you are hearing it backwards, at normal
speed.

I think Petra's backmasking section says it best, anyhow:
"why are you looking for the Devil when you oughta be looking for the Lord"
                         - tom
--
internet     : mvac23!thomas@udel.edu  or  thomas%mvac23@udel.edu (home)
             : lapp@cdhub1.dnet.dupont.com (work)
OSI          : C=US/A=MCI/S=LAPP/D=ID=4398613
uucp         : {ucbvax,mcvax,uunet}!udel!mvac23!thomas
Location     : Newark, DE, USA

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: wpr@atlanta.dg.com (Bill Rawlins)
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 21:54:10 GMT
Organization: Data General Corp. ASSD, Atlanta, GA

In article <1992Aug14.214230.20910@eecs.nwu.edu>, phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre) writes:
|> This is my opinion:
|> 
|> Music is a tool, just like speech, writing, poetry, art, dance, and any
|> other form of creative expression.  It is the human behind the expression
|> that makes it moral or immoral.
|> 
|> 		William LeFebvre
|> 		Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst
|> 		Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
|> 		Northwestern University
|> 		<phil@eecs.nwu.edu>

May I add?

  Any person who has been born-again has the Holy Spirit within them.
  They should be able to discern flesh from spirit.
  I used to be "into" really hard rock quite a few years back.
  When I listen to "Christian" music that is is "fleshly", I can sense
  it.  When I listen to music that brings praise and adoration to God,
  I can sense it.  The question is, What do I want to listen to,
  that which is fleshly or that which is spiritual?  As Christians,
  we should choose spiritual things rather than fleshly.
  "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world..." I John 2:15

-- 
             ==========================================================
            //  Bill Rawlins            <wpr@atlanta.dg.com>        //
           //  Data General Corp       "My views are my own"       //
          //  Norcross, GA                                        //
         ==========================================================
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: ralthoff@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Rob Althoff)
Subject: Re: R.M.C. Desert Island Quiz #2
Organization: Dept. of Psychology, Univ. of Illinois, Urbana
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 06:04:53 GMT

 Question 1: You have a choice of up to 10 albums that you can have
 with you when you get to the island. What are your choices for music
 that you "just gotta have" with you?  This music can be any genre and
 any artist in the last, say 100 years. Your choices don't have to be
 in order of preference and need to include artist (s) and album title.
 
 		Artist or Group			Album		
 1.              Michael Card			The Life
 2.              Michael Card			Present Reality
 3.              Cat Stevens                    Footsteps in the Dark
 4.              Cat Stevens                    Tea for the Tillerman
 5.              Indigo Girls                   Indigo Girls
 6.              U2                             The Joshua Tree
 7.              U2                             October
 8.              Amy Grant                      Lead Me On
 9.              Marc Cohn                      Marc Cohn
 10.             Soundtrack                     Dances with Wolves
 
 
 
Question 2: After about five years, you find out (via a letter in a bottle)
that you can get a hold of new albums from 10 artists or groups of your choice;
which artists would you want to catch up on?
 
 		Artist
 
 1.   Michael Card                       6. Michael W. Smith
 2.   Amy Grant                          7. Marc Cohn
 3.   U2                                 8. Eric Clapton
 4.   Indigo Girls                       9. Petra
 5.   Reo Speedwagon (to see how sappy  10. Russ Taff
                      they have gotten)
 
 
 Question 3: A box washes up on shore with 5 albums, each of which has the 
 best music of the career of one artist or group. If you had a choice, which 
 artist or group would you choose?
 
 
 1.   Cat Stevens
 2.   Eric Clapton
 3.   Michael Card
 4.   U2
 5.   Elvis
 
 
 Question 4: After a few more years, you get the chance to hear two
 groups in concert as their boat passes close by the island ( yes,
 its a really busy island :-) ); who would you want to hear and what songs 
 would you want them to play?
 
 
 1. Elvis -- "Blue Hawaii" :-)
 2. The Police -- "Message in a Bottle"   :-)
 
 
Rob
--
Rob Althoff
Neuroscience Program and College of Medicine
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
email to : ralthoff@s.psych.uiuc.edu



Newsgroups: rec.music.christian,alt.rock-n-roll.metal.heavy
From: Phil.Powell@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Phil Powell)
Subject: Mortification - Deliverance - MATW - DBM
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 02:01:48 GMT

Yeah I got a bunch of new tapes yesterday! DBM is a Christian doom/thrash
band from Finland whose tape, "Slayer of Evil" just came out.. some songs
are not bad at all

The new MATW, "Through The Forest" is simply their best yet!!! The ballads
are so beautiful; one so beautiful, "I've Got A Heaven", that it now ranks
up there with "The Wall" by Kansas (NOT PINK FLOYD) as my most favorite
song of all time!

The new Deliverance, "Stay of Execution", is simply fantastic! Produced by
Terry Taylor (TERRY TAYLOR? Produce a speed metal album?) so it has that
progressive edge, sounding like a mix of the new Testament and new
Queensryche (though the remake of "Horrendous Disc" - Daniel Amos' old
tune - gee did Terry have anything to do with that? NAHHH! :-) sounds like
old Queen).. Yeah folks, you can say Deliverance "sold out"; I say they've
musically expanded!!

The new Mortification is FUN FUN FUN! "Scrolls of the Megilloth" is simply
incredible.. uh... (don't get offended it's the only way to describe the
music) death metal..

RECOMMENDATIONS: Deliverance, "Stay of Execution", MATW, "Through The
Forest", Mortification, "Scrolls of the Megilloth", Circle of Dust,
"Circle of Dust"

Phil

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: jpersons@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John C Persons)
Subject: Re:  Desert Island Quiz
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 02:00:27 GMT

Here's a quick stab at question number 1.

King's X                               Faith Hope Love
REM                                    Out of Time
Bonnie Raitt                           Collection
Gary Moore                             After Hours
Larry Norman                           Something New Under the Son
Randy Stonehill                        Welcome to Paradise
U2                                     Rattle and Hum
U2                                     The Joshua Tree
Kansas                                 Audio Visions
Crash Test Dummies                     The Ghosts That Haunt Me

John
From: st0o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Steven Timm)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: new MWS release info
Date: 13 Aug 92 13:51:21 GMT
Organization: Doctoral student, Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

For those in the Chicago area, on WONU 89.7 8 PM there will be what they 
are billing as a "world premiere" of MWS' new album, with him in their
studio playing cuts off of it and taking listener phone calls.
This will be this Sat. night Aug. 15.

Steve Timm
From: wgorlitz@wiz.outb.wimsey.bc.ca (Walter Gorlitz)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Amy Grant's "Sexy" comment
Date: 11 Aug 92 22:37:22 PDT
Organization: Wizard Online

in your sig you quote the lyrics from the eleventh song on the new Whiteheart album.  On the CD it has no title (at least the Canadian version) does anyone with the cassette have a title for it?

walter

--- Via UCI v1.02 (C-Net Amiga)

wgorlitz@wiz.outb.wimsey.bc.ca.
% include standard.sig
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: lranton@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Lorie Ranton)
Subject: Re: R.M.C. Desert Island Quiz #2
Keywords: deserted island, tapes/cd's, batteries, etc...
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:34:50 GMT



Question 1: 

      Artist or Group            Album
1.     Russ Taff                Russ Taff
2.     Sparks                   Sparks
3.     Wes King                 Wes King
4.     Jon Gibson               Jesus Loves Ya
5.     Whiteheart               Freedom
6.     Whiteheart               Tales of Wonder
7.     Mr. Mister               Go On...
8.     Bryan Duncan             Whistling in the Dark
9.     Micheal English          Micheal English
10.    Mastedon                 Lufcadio


Question 2: After about five years, 

                Artist

1.  Russ Taff                           6. Sparks
2.  David Mullen                        7. Whiteheart
3.  Dreamer                             8. Halo
4.  MW Smith                            9. Micheal English
5.  Kelli Reisen (New Packaderm)       10. Carman

Question 3: A box washes up on shore with 5 albums, 

1.  Russ Taff
2.  Amy Grant
3.  MW Smith
4.  Whiteheart
5.  Jon Gibson


Question 4: After a few more years, you get the chance to hear two
groups in concert 

1. Russ Taff  --Still Believe
2. Whiteheart--Over Me


:>
Laurie Ranton-University of Waterloo, Ontario
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: AMY AMY AMY AMY AMY AMY AMY AMY AMY AMY
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:05:35 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Aug13.120450.2609@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jpersons@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John C Persons) writes:
>> Should I take this personally ? :) :)
>>
>> Amy B.
>>
>Of course.  Didn't you know?  Everyone takes everything
>personally on this newsgroup!  :-)



Take that back!  8-)







-- 
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
"Happy campers you are, happy campers you have been, and as far as I'm
concerned, happy campers you will always be."
                  --J. Danforth Quayle in American Samoa
From: ralthoff@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Rob Althoff)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: TANGENT: Re: The Five Points of Fundamentalism
Date: 20 Aug 92 23:47:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BtB3FE.LI
Organization: Dept. of Psychology, Univ. of Illinois, Urbana

In article <1992Aug20.203312.22510@meaddata.com> johnt@meaddata.com (John Townsend) writes:

>One thing that's missing from this list, which appears in the statements of
>faith of virtually every fundamentalist organization I've ever seen, is the
>belief in the "completeness" of Scripture, which goes along with the belief in
>the inspiration and inerrency of the original texts.  This is why fundamental-
>ists generally don't believe in modern apostles, popes, prophets, etc. who
>impart new direct revelation from God, at least not among people to whom the
>written Word of God is readily available.  Aside from the fact that most
>Catholics I have known don't believe in all five of the points above, I think
>that the biggest difference between Catholics and fundamentalists is the
>bounteous amount of extra-Scriptural belief and tradition that the Catholic
>Church has added to its faith.  Whereas some fundamentalists may be criticized
>for the number of "Thou shalt not's" they believe in, they at least back their
>beliefs with an interpretation (as literally as possible) of the words of
>Scripture rather than the edicts of the Church.


Um...yeah.  I'm just writing to mention that, with absolutely no malice
intended toward anyone, we need to be a little careful when we start
getting on topics that concern defining aspects of faith and
denomination.

We should keep in mind that we don't really need to start a
denominational flame war if we can avoid it, and I think we can avoid
it in this case.

I realize that there might be folks out there that don't agree with one
particular denomination or another, but can we try to keep it off of
r.m.c.?  I mean most denominations have their quirks.  We all know that,
so there's really no reason to discuss it here.

Absolutely no flame intended, just a casual reminder that discussions
that deal with topics such as this one can easily turn in such a way as
to offend.  That's all.  Thanks!

Rob
--
Rob Althoff
Neuroscience Program and College of Medicine
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
email to : ralthoff@s.psych.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: harling@pictel.com (Dan Harling)
Subject: Re: Re: Is music amoral??
Organization: PictureTel Corporation
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 18:59:19 GMT

In article <107410186@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> rhm@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Miller) writes:
>
>First, I do not agree that the only moral statement in a well-written song is
>contained in the lyric. If I'm doing my job as a writer, the music is written
>to specifically reinforce the lyric. The more succesful I am at that, the more
>the music is infused with the same moral statement as the lyric...

> Now to say a 
>genre is corrupt is probably stretching it, particularly if numerous examples
>of the use of the genre can be found which make "good" statements. And one can
>find such back to the earliest days of rock (calls for justice, for example).
>On the other hand, remember the classic rock "feel like makin' love" by (??)?
>The music under and around the hook line is basically a libidinous picture of 
>physical sex. I can't think of anything *else* listening to that line. Put "I'm
>livin in Gods love" on top of that music and I'm still gonna be thinking about
>sex...and wondering about the competence of the writer.

I contend that is true only because you have heard the music in the
context of its current lyrics.  Imagine, if you can, a world in which
that song was originally written with the godly lyrics that you
describe.  Changing the lyrics to their current form would be like
turning "A Mighty Fortress is our God" back into a beer-hall tune.
Personally, I would find it difficult to avoid thinking of the "real"
lyrics when I hear that tune, even if somebody sang different lyrics to
it.  (I'd also be a little perturbed, as this is one of the few songs
whose lyrics I like *more* than the music.)
____________________________________________________________________________
Daniel A. Harling                        (harling@pictel.com)
PictureTel Corp.             Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of
Peabody, MA  01960                 PictureTel, but they ought to be!
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: TANGENT: Re: Do We Need a New newsgroup?
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:17:18 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Aug14.130403.28332@cbnews.cb.att.com> ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman) writes:
>
(Lots of good stuff deleted)
>
>beginning of the subject line, as I've done above.  For all of you who 
>only want to read about specific albums, performers, etc., put the word 
>"TANGENT" in a kill file.  I'm willing to do this.  Anybody else?  
> 

I'm with Andy.  I'd like to keep it here and put "tangent" or whatever
in the subject line; it's a lively group we've got here!



-- 
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
"Happy campers you are, happy campers you have been, and as far as I'm
concerned, happy campers you will always be."
                  --J. Danforth Quayle in American Samoa
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: tothmd@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Michael David Toth)
Subject: Re: new T-Bone album?
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 16:59:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.213839.21903@eng.umd.edu> yag@eng.umd.edu (Eric Funk) writes:
>
>I think that there is a new T-Bone album out, the local progressive
>station has been playing ``tear the building down'' in light rotation.
>Anyone with more details or reviews?
>-- 

Yup, it's called _The Criminal Under My Own Hat_ and I *know* some
people in this newsgroup have it and they can offer a more concise
review.  I don't have it yet, but what I've heard is fantastic.  The
song that got some airplay here was "Criminals."

There was also a REALLY nifty interview in last month's MUSICIAN with
T Bone and Sam Phillips entitled "The Prophet & the Dreamer" with some
incredibly classy photos.  It gave some insight into the new album, as
well as some of their thoughts on faith and the church.  

I had the wonderful fortune of seeing T-Bone *TWICE* when I was in
Chicago for the ACM SIGGRAPH conference a few weeks ago.  I talked to 
some lady at Columbia to see where he was playing, and found out we were
both in Chicago at the same time.  I was devistated to find out he was
playing in a small nightclub with 100 seats and it was sold out.  When I
got to Chicago, I learned that a second, earlier show was added, but
that too was sold out.  Miraculously, *ONE* ticket came up for sale a
couple days later when I stopped by a Ticketmaster outlet near the
conference.  After all that, and learning that he was doing some
additional material for the second show, I stuck around and managed to
get in as "standing room only."

The two sets were actually pretty similar, and both times he played most
if not all the songs off the new album.  They gave out a promo cassette
single of "Criminals" and "Not Too Late."  After only hearing these
stripped-down acoustic versions of these songs, the recorded versions
were probably more interesting to me.  From what I've heard and been
told, this stuff is a lot more overtly spiritual than a lot of his
1980's material.

A couple of notes, neither of which surprised me:  occasionally T-Bone
threw in some explicatives that no doubt some people in this newsgroup
would find objectionable, and he also seasoned a lot of his comments
with scripture, some more genuinely applicable than others.  A couple
worth repeating:

"People have asked me, 'What do you mean, everything is so horrible, but
you're saying "It's Not Too Late?!?!?!"' and I thought about what Martin
Luther said when he was asked what he'd do if he knew the world would
end tomorrow.  He said he'd plant a tree."

"When I think of the Bible passage that says sometimes Satan masquerades
as an angel of light, I seem to think of Pat Robertson...NO!  I'm not
suggesting that Pat Robertson is Satan, he just makes me think of that
verse..."


Michael.