From: pdm@sisters.cs.uoregon.edu (peter d. mark)
Subject: Re: On Surpassing Einstein
Organization: /local/lib/rn/organization
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:56:10 GMT

In article <9204051240.AA25502@relay1.UU.NET> MASH@weizmann.weizmann.ac.il (Michael Shimshoni) writes:
}In: <1992Mar30.210612.682796@locus.com>
}hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles) makes also an astonishing claim:
}
}>                                          A careful examination
}>of the works of our predecessors, reveals the fact that they
}>were giants. Our Sages recognized the fact that they cannot even
}>match the Torah knowledge of their predecessors, let alone surpass it.
}
}They should know what they can and cannot.
}
}>Any comparison to the secular world is totally misleading. I may
}                                                              ^^^
}>not have the intelligence of Albert Einstein, for example, but I can
}>probably learn all that he knew.
}
}Just try Hayim!
}
}>                                 An additional class or two, will
}>then, in a manner of speaking, allow me to surpass Einstein.
}
}Once you have taken these additional  classes you are invited to apply
}for a Tenure position at The Weizmann Institute of Science.
}
}>Unfortunately, this is (generally) not true in regards to Torah
}>knowledge.  There is no way (practically) I can know and learn all that
}>our Earlier Sages knew.  Therefore, although I may be able to pick up
}>scraps of secular knowledge here-and-there which the Earlier Sages did
}>not know, this is insufficient to surpass them.
}>
}>Hence, Jewish tradition (in general) considers it ludicrous to argue on
}>a scholar of a previous generation/era. It is equivalent, in modern
}>day terms, to a student having completed high-school physics, and
}>arguing with Einstein. Sure, your high school teacher may have thrown
}>in some tidbits that were unknown in Einstein's day, but that is hardly
}>a license to argue with him.
}>
}>Until you know what Einstein knew, it is better
}>to remain silent then make a fool of yourself. Likewise, until you
}>know as much as our Great Rabbis of yesteryear, is is far better to
}>remain silent, then to foolishly proclaim yourself an "expert"
}>and offer your own opinions.
}
}This refusal to use ones own brains given by God or nature, this false
}humility fits better a slave than a  free person.  I am sure if RAMBAM
}had access to scj and would have  read Hayim's views he would not have
}DARED to write anything like the Morei Nevukhim or anything else.
}
}Luckily  in most  generations there  were giants,  and some  of lesser
}size, who were not afraid to think and publish their results.  This is
}true both in Science and in all religions.
}
}>Hayim Hendeles
}
} Michael Shimshoni



the above exchange illustrates perfectly the schism between traditional
religious jewish thinking (at least as put forth by hayim) and modern
secular thought based on rational, scientific thought:

human history, according to the religious view, is the history of
forgetting.  at the revelation at sinai, the sages knew everything
that was/is ever possible to know, and since then we have forgotten
more and more, until now, when we practically know nothing.  knowledge 
and understanding are not acquired through experimentation and discovery 
or discussion and debate, but rather obtained from the sages of old who 
were closer to prophesy and revelation.

the modern scientific/humanistic mind takes the opposite viewpoint: the 
course of human affairs is marked by the expansion of collective knowledge 
by a spirit of free enquiry and open debate, and the application of human
creativity, resourcefulness, and intelligence.  according to the secular
humanist mindset, one has an obligation to decide moral questions according 
to the dictates of one's own conscience rather than relying on authoritative 
pronouncements of religious leaders, past or present.

to the extent that hayim's pessimististic view represents the views of 
orthodox judaism in general (does it?), i find it troubling.

peter mark
pdm@cs.uoregon.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish