From: clamen@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Subject: Re: Education
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
	<1992Jul20.204009.3372@csi.uottawa.ca> <12342@audetf>
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Distribution: can
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 03:06:54 GMT
X-Posted-From: byron.sp.cs.cmu.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu


In article <12342@audetf> audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet) writes:

   In article (Christopher Browne) writes:
   >You didn't answer his question - you merely said something that was
   >(at least for the moment) beside the point.

   It is not besides the point at all: the result is the same. If you
   give the right to people to french schools, but the facilities don't
   exist, you're still not getting education in french!

   >There is a BIG difference between:
   >(1)  Having poor availability of schools in French due to a lack of
   >demand, due to the lack of a large French population, and

   Lack of demand! Bullshit. It used to be illegal to teach in french in
   a lot of provinces. People had to pretend they were educated in
   english. Of course the demand diminished since then (because of
   repression). That "demand" theory is pure interpretation. What
   justifies a french schools? 5%, 10%, 20%? In Quebec, you'll find
   english schools (for anglo-quebecois) almost anywhere. Even if you
   have only a 5% portion of anglophones.

Percentage is a totally irrelevent criterion: the important numerical
value is the size of the client-base within commuting distance.  The
Constitution stipulates: where NUMBERS warrant.  Quebec is a rather
populous place (as Canadian regions go).  There are more anglophone
Quebecers than there are anglophone Newfoundlanders, and the Quebec
anglos are concentrated in a smaller area.  There are economically
practical English-language schools in Newfoundland -- there can be
economically practical English-language schools in parts of Quebec.
(The non-economically practical ones have been closing.  I've read
some stories about the death of anglophone communities in the Gaspe'
and parts of the Townships.)  Similarly, there are French-language
schools in Amos -- there can be French-language schools in Edmonton or
Vancouver or Toronto.

   >(2)  FORBIDDING children to study English in school "because we have
   >to protect the French language," or some such political reason.

   It is not FORBIDDING children to study in english. It's: if you want
   to immigrate to Quebec, be aware that your children will be educated
   in in french. If you think that this is unacceptable (i.e., be part of
   the society you are immigrating to), then maybee you should consider
   another place, possibly another province. It works like that in all
   so-called bilingual countries. If I emmigrate to the flemmish part of
   Belgium, I won't be able to send my kids to french school, despite the
   fact that one of the countries two official languages is french.

However, a major chunk of the Belgian population lives in bilingual
Brussels.

   As I pointed out earlier, that's not true in any of the bilingual (or
   multilingual) country I know. Doesn't work this way in Belgium or in
   Switzerland.

There are bilingual cantons in Switzerland.  Bilingual services are
available there.

   >Quebec is, and has been for some 125 years, a part of the country that
   >is called Canada.  The fact that you'd like to change that does not
   >change the fact.

   Canada has been officially bilingual since then, and the rights of the
   francophone minorities have been denied in most places for that period
   of time. More than enought to decimate the french population to a
   point-of-no-return level.

I maintain that Canada was not really officially bilingual until 1969.
French has been been a legitimate language in Parliament since July 1,
1867, but guarantees of French-language services and education ("where
numbers warrant") were not present back then.  (How else would the
anti-French legislation have been accepted?)

--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 268 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890, USA
--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 268 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890, USA