HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hanss@microsoft.com (Hans Spiller)
Subject: Re: Mansell brake tests Senna
Date: 20 Nov 92 03:45:08 GMT
Organization: Self

In article <1ecue3INNl8p@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> humpty@tartarus.uwa.edu.au wrote:
> thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen) writes:
> 
> >I think that Mansell has had enough of F1 and its politics. Note that
> >he's not retiring, he taking a voluntary pay cut of more than, what, $10M?
> >To me that says 'fed up with this', not 'better get out while I'm on top'.
> 
> What about trying to avoid racing Prost and looking bad by taking a pay
> cut??!
> 

I have to agree with Thos. why not take Mansell at his word?  When he announced
that he was quitting F1 in monza, he basically said he was really angry at being
jerked around.  I think he has is priorities straight.  Racing, and his family
come first, then golf and so forth... He has enough money that if he invests
even halfway wisely, he never has to work again, and he can live as well as
he wants to.   Being jerked around is a miserable experience, probably all
the more so when it's by a team which had always before made him feel so
warmly welcome.  Nigel knows from hard experience that Prost is an avid
politician, and I'm sure that he saw that as making a bad problem worse. I think
that Prost's politicalness is a far more important factor in his not wanting to
be teammates with him than the potential competition. IndyCar looked like what
he thought racing should be--fun, competitive, and far less politics than F1.
I'm sure he knows he won't be dominating IndyCars from the start, although
being with a good team he also knows he wont be a backmarker, and will probably
win a few races next year. I'm sure he's not happy about the money, but whining
aside, I have to respect him for sticking to his priorities. He got most of what
he wanted, and he can do without what he lost.  If people like humpty and James
Hunt care so much about his "image", that's their own problem, and part of the
whole political scene he's trying to get away from.

				-Hans
				hanss@microsoft.com
From: humpty@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Daniel Ong)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Senna's an ass!
Date: 16 Nov 1992 07:07:55 GMT
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: tartarus.uwa.edu.au

dhukill@esprit.prime.com (Dave Hukill x4056 5-1) writes:


> To follow up on my previous note, I re-ran the tape of the accident, and it
>is clear that Mansell braked about 20-30m EARLIER than he was earlier in
>the race. Brake testing? Possible. On the flip side of that, Senna had
>plenty of time to react, but did not until it was too late. This is probably
>where the 'Brain fade' theories come from.

What about the fact that Mansell took a different line on the approach
to the hairpin.  He did not take the racing line and hogged the track.


> In any case, we saw the end (at least for the '93 season) of two of the
>largest egos in recent memory from Formula 1, so lets hope that spells an
>end to all the finger-pointing, and a begining to some REAL racing.

>Dave Hukill <dhukill@esprit.prime.com>
From: GR743@uacsc2.albany.edu (Greg Rickes)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Touring car tidbits
Date: 18 Nov 92 18:03:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: uacsc2.168A3B79E.GR743
Organization: University at Albany, Albany NY 12222

In article <19921118.085344.419@almaden.ibm.com>
lcheng@watson.ibm.com writes:
 
>Indycars, as high-tech exists in touring and rally cars too.
>
In a dissenting opinion, I would suggest that the proliferation
of high tech in touring and rally cars is part of the PROBLEM.
As long as a representative number of manufacturers want to
contribute technically AND financially these categories
have some popularity, but if an exodus occurs for any
reason, technical, political, or financial, the series
then flounders. Witness the current state of the '93
German Touring Car Championship.  I will refrain from
further editorializing, except to say that for all of
us techno-racing Luddites the NASCAR Winston Cup/Busch
Grand National/ASA formula works just fine, and seems
to be equally adaptable to road courses as well as
the traditional ovals, and that recent history
STRONGLY suggests that privateers, a.k.a. independents,
still have more than equal opportunities to capture
the big prize
 
Greg Rickes
 
 
 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: andyw@meaddata.com (Andy Welter)
Subject: F1 Race Weekends
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:06:29 GMT
Reply-To: andyw@meaddata.com

What are F1 race weekends like at most F1 venues?

At Indycar road races you get plenty to watch... practice and qualifying sessions
on friday and saturday, a trans-am race on saturday, and a half dozen other
support races like Toyota formula atlantic, sports 2000, Barber Saab, etc.

I think Winston cup races usually just have the main event on Sunday and a Grand national or Arca race the day before (plus qualifying and practice).

Do you get as much to watch in F1 or is it usually just the big boys going at 
it?


---
|Andrew Welter	     |  All views are mine and not |      (513) 865-6822   
|Mead Data Central   |    that of my employer      |      pd&o-ps-ts-dsp       
|P.O. Box 933        |                             |     andyw@meaddata.com
|Dayton, Ohio  45401 |          	           | ...!uunet!meaddata!andyw

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: rdm@hpsalo.cern.ch (Fons Rademakers)
Subject: Re: Rallies Championship????
Organization: CERN, European Research Center for High Energy Physics
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:11:26 GMT

>>>>> On Fri, 13 Nov 1992 19:46:09 GMT, torito@IASTATE.EDU (Jaime Santiago) said:
>> I've read in soc.culture.spain that the current classification is as follows:

>> 1.Carlos Sainz 126pts
>> 2.Kankkunen    124pts
>> 3.Auriol       123pts 

>> Could someone verify this please.

>> Jaime Santiago

3. Auriol   121pts


The power steering unit broke in Auriol's Lancia which made him lose 
contol of the car and he went off the road. He lost about 51 min due to 
this accident. Instead of giving up he fought back and finished 10th,
good for 1 point. So maybe 6 victories for Didier are still not enough
to become world champion. Would be a shame. The RAC rally, in a few weeks,
will decide the championship.

-- Fons Rademakers.
--
Org:    CERN, European Organization for Nuclear Research.
Mail:   1123 Geneve, Switzerland                      Fax: +22 7673700
Phone:  +22 7674886 or 7675049
UUCP:   rdm@cernvm.cern.ch                     BITNET: rdm@cernvm.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: mcrarey@titan.trl.OZ.AU (Michael Crarey)
Subject: Frank Williams' Book
Keywords: Williams
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:09:35 GMT

Some time ago in this news group, mention was made of a book written by
FW's wife titled "Different Way of Life". I have tried to buy it here in 
Australia, with no success.  Anybody out there with an ISBN number, printer, or
publisher could you let me know. Preferably email to 

					m.crarey@trl.oz.au

					Thanks.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: mcclure@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Subject: Re: Patrese
Reply-To: mcclure@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com
Organization: LMSC, Sunnyvale, California
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 15:45:58 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.014050.25389@leland.Stanford.EDU>, motta@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nazare Motta) writes:
>Ok, some say Senna is an ass. 
>I personally think that Senna, Mansell and Prost they all suck!
>It's time for new blood. How about Fittipaldi (the kid, not the old one)
>But I think that the prize "Sucker of the Year" has to go to Patrese (oops, I
>forgot how to spell it among other words, of course).
>He had everything to make this year a little more interesting than it was 
>if he had put a little pressure on his team. 
>But, no! He sat in his cockpit waiting for God knows what, accomplishing
>a mediocre role when he could have been the factor for "emotions" in the 
>races. I'm not even talk about taking the title from Mansell but at 
>least faking a desire of!!!
>I really miss Piquet in his old days, N. Lauda and F. Cevert!!!

When your team manager tells you to play second fiddle, you play second
fiddle.  It was obvious that NM was the #1 driver for the team and
Frank Williams did everything he could to make sure his driver took
the championship.
But let's put it in another way.  Winning and the Championship means
big bucks, pounds, lire, yen whatever.  If you are going to do that it
really means one of two things: 1) stick with a single car team so you
can concentrate your effort, or 2) buy a little insurance with a two car
team with the #2 driver designated as a blocker.  (or if the situation
develops really bad for you, let #2 get top priority then duck)
Patrese is a good driver but equally as important he is a team player - 
something that seems to be lacking in the F1 world!
Kent M. McClure
Auto racing afficionado and member of San
Jose IPMS chapter.
My views are what they are, like them or not.
From: jjn@cbjjn.cb.att.com (Jeff Nappi)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Nissan and IMSA
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:13:13 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs

In article <1992Nov16.220050.18941@pts1.pts.mot.com>, eu507dac@pts.mot.com (DOUG CHRISTENSEN X3915 P6818) writes:
|> In article 7516@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu, cweber@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Christopher D Weber) writes:
|> >
|> >     As for IMSA, I would expect the GTP series to fizzle in a few years due to
|> >flagging grid sizes.  I'm intrigued by Mazda's pullout.  They were so fond of 
|> >bragging about how heir RX-7 was a better race car than the various 911s that 
|> >raced in IMSA over the years (they didn't count the 935's wins).  Mazda got a 
|> >rude awakening this year when their cars weren't as successful as they had 
|> >expected.  I guess you can't just walk in and dominate anymore...
|> >
|> 

I read a article about Mazdas pullout of IMSA GTP racing and it was purely
based on finances, the company has also cancelled it Amati line. The article
went on to say that of all the first year efforts put into IMSA GTP racing,
Mazda had the most success. The RX7's were a better race car, they came in
and kicked the 911's butt or whatever else Porsche tried to throw at them.

-- 
Jeff Nappi
Columbus Bell Labs
jjn@cbjjn.att.com
From: pete@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: photos/info
Date: 16 Nov 92 11:21:59 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

mcclure@force.ssd.lmsc.lockheed.com wrote:
:      b)  ex F1 cars that were used in the first season of F3000
:          (I am atempting to convert an Arrows and a Williams to
:           represent the F3000 cars),

I recall Ligiers and Tyrrells (012s from Baron Racing) being run in
F3000, and possibly Arrows, but I can't recall a Williams ever being
entered -- can you post some more details please!

:      c)  ex F1 cars used in the old Aurora F1 championship,

Most of these were basically just repainted obsolete F1 cars. The
McLaren M23 was very popular for a while, a couple of Lotus 72s were
also around in the early years, March were well-represented and old
Surtees were quite successful for a while. Later on RAM racing ran a
couple of Williams FW07s very successfully, and there was at least one
successful Wolf run for David Kennedy (one of the later ones). At some
point the Aurora series changed its name to ShellSport, but I forget
the details. F2 cars were also admitted.

As far as I recall very few cars were built specifically for the Aurora
series. 

The Chevron B46 (designation might be slightly out) would probably have
been more successful had it not had a succession of drivers -- it was
run as a ``scholarship'' car -- and had Derek Bennett not been killed
in his hang-gliding accident... The Dwya was hopeless and much later
became the equally hopeless F3000 Monaco. John Jordan (no relation to Eddie
as far as I'm aware!) bought various bits of BRM's equipment when they
finally called it a day and had a P207 modified for this series, and
later on built an ersatz BRM, the P230, to no avail. A Surtees TS20 was
modified into a ground-effects car by one team after the works quit F1
(I think it was for Gordon Smiley), and Colin Bennett did a lot of work
on a late Fittipaldi (F8?) for Val Musetti.

Unfortunately there isn't a definitive work on the Aurora series, or
non-Championship/privateer F1 in general -- or if there is I'd be interested 
in seeing it -- and photos of the Aurora series cars in privateer liveries are 
pretty hard to come by apart from in old race reports....

It is possible to piece together parts of the story from books like Hodges
``A-Z of Formula Racing Cars'', plus chassis records and race results in other 
books, but nobody seems to have pulled all the pieces together...

Pete
--
*Peter Fenelon -- Research Associate -- Software Safety Assessment Procedures*
Dept. of Computer Science, University of York, York, Y01 5DD (+44/0)904 433388
EMAIL: pete@minster.york.ac.uk `There's no room for enigmas in built up areas'
From: blanch@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (David Blanchard)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 22:12:12 GMT
Subject: Re: Why doesn't Cheever have a ride? (Was: Ganassi/Luyendyk)
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport

> WHY DOESN'T EDDIE HAVE A RIDE?

I have been trying to figure out how Eddie C. got a ride in the first
place. Yeah, he lost in F1 for a while, but has he ever won anything? 
Has he won anything lately?

I think he is a personable guy, but he never struck me as being very
motivated.

No hard feelings, and I hope he lands a job. 

DavidOB

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks)
Subject: Re: Lola chassis ID's
Keywords: lola
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:08:18 GMT

Anthony Doig writes:
>How do Lola make up the model ID numbers for thier chassis ?  For example,
>what does "T91/01" mean (do they have the 'T' ? - I can't remember).
>A wild guess - the '91' part is the year.

Yes, they have the `T' and yes 91 refers to the year.

>What does the rest mean ?  It seems like they use the same numbering system
>for all their chassis (Indy, F3000, etc).

In the Indy cars there are two other designations for each chassis.  The 
designation `/00' and `/01' refer to the speedway version and the road course
version.  At shorter ovals, the speedway and road course versions appear to
be used interchangeably.  At Indy and Michigan the speedway version is
used primarily.

Rob U
--
-       Rob Unglenieks             REAL race cars DON'T wear BOWTIES       -
-  "It is the foreign element that commits our crimes.   There is no       -
-   native criminal class except Congress."  [Samuel Langhorne Clemens]    -
-  (Don't look at me, I DIDN'T vote for Clinton.  Will Engineer For Food)  -
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: ajd@DIALix.oz.au (Anthony Doig)
Subject: Re: F1 teams 1993 (was: More Sauber Tests at Barcelona)
Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Western Australia
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 09:14:50 GMT

In <1992Nov10.154101.19083@spectrum.xerox.com> mjackson.wbst147@xerox.com (Mark Jackson) writes:

[ ... stuff deleted ... ]

>Of these, I understand March
>is the softest; presumably they're losing the Ilmor engine next year,
>and their finances have been shaky.

I thought March would continue with the current Ilmor V10 in '93.  Sauber
are to get a totally new Ilmor V10 (badged a Sauber engine) which will
be available from December/January.  They are currently using the "old"
Ilmor V10 (as used this year by March and Tyrell).

I could be wrong, though.

>Question:  What *is* Brabham's status?

I read in "Auto Action" (I think) that Sir Jack Brabham is rumoured to be
trying to buy the team and get it going properly again.  I hope this happens,
maybe with the help of some Australian money (Fosters ? - they sponser
everything else).

Doigman.
-- 
Anthony Doig					| E-mail : ajd@Dialix.oz.au
Corporate Systems Development			| Voice  : +61 9 321 2442
Perth, Western Australia			| Fax    : +61 9 474 2553
From: pete@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Prost won't race #0 next year
Date: 16 Nov 92 11:02:51 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

Stuart Laing (Stuart_Laing@kcbbs.gen.nz) wrote:
: Dan Jones wrote
: >
: >According to last Thursday's AutoSport, Prost refuses to race
: >#0 next season.  I say screw him, if he doesn't have a #0 on
: >the side of his car, his laps don't count.  Its time for FISA
: >to flex a little muscle.
: I must agree, as a Timekeeper cars with incoreect numbers and hard to
: see numbers are a pain in the butt. The way that Team Willy will get
: around this problem is to have either difficult to read or ambiguos
: numbers ala the Brabhams when they had that LCD style number and the two
: cars could  get badly confused.

Since sponsorship is getting hard to come by and there are presumably blank
spaces on a lot of the cars, how about a return to the late-Sixties approach
-- big numbers on the car, and the drivers' surnames in very large
high-visibility letters... makes it _very_ easy to spot what's going on. 

Of course, real F1 freaks can work it all out by helmet colour and the
noises the car makes going through corners...

Approximately half a :-)

Pete
--
*Peter Fenelon -- Research Associate -- Software Safety Assessment Procedures*
Dept. of Computer Science, University of York, York, Y01 5DD (+44/0)904 433388
EMAIL: pete@minster.york.ac.uk `There's no room for enigmas in built up areas'
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: wlay@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Radio 90.1 FM WLAY Tarkington Hall)
Subject: Re: World 600
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:10:11 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.023444.12857@ncsu.edu> fireman@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Tracy L. Brooks) writes:
>
>The World 600 at 4:30pm on a Sunday?  Surely if they have it at night it
>will be on a Saturday.  I hope so anyway.  If it is on a Sunday evening
>they will be a lot of people missing work on Monday ;-)
>
I`m quite disappointed... an NC State type who doesn`t even know that 
the World 600 is on Memorial Day weekend!  They don`t have to worry 
about work on Monday... it`s Memorial Day!!!!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  Ron Steve, Station Manager      |  "My views are my own and do not 
  Radio 90.1 FM WLAY              |   reflect those of WLAY, Tarkington 
  Tarkington Hall                 |   Hall, or (especially) Purdue 
                                  |   University!!"
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

 90.1 FM  WLAY  Tarkington Hall -=- "West Lafayette's Get Lucky Radio Station."
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: svissa@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Sirish Vissa)
Subject: WRC: Ivory Coast Results + Drivers Standings......
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:38:19 GMT



The Following is a posting from Mac Atteberry
  whose newsposter is of the fritz......
  Enjoy.......

Results of the Ivory Coast Rally WRC (Drivers) Round 12

Oct. 31-Nov.2

	Pos.	No.	Driver/Co-driver	Car
	1	1	K. Shinozuka/J. Meadows	Mitsubishi GalantVR-4
	1	6	B. Thiry/S.Prevot	Opel Kadett GSi
	3	5	P.Servant/T.Brion	Audi 90 Quattro
	4	39	H.Nishiyama/H.Yamaguchi	Nissan Pulsar GTI-R (N)
	5	10 	S.Assef/C.Konan		Toyota Celica GT-4
	6	20	A.Oudit/F.Spaak		Nissan Pulsar GTI-R (N)
	7	21	M.Stohl/K.Gerlach	Audi 90 Quattro
	8	29	D.Occelli/F.Michel	Toyota Corolla 16v
	9	11	JC.Dupuis/N.Copetti	Toyota Corolla 16v
	10	19	G.Colsoul/E.Paquay	Mitsubishi GalantVR-4 (N)

Group A winner/overall Shinzuka/Meadows

Up to 1300cc - no starters

1300-1600cc - Ocelli/Michel

1600-2000cc - Thiry/Prevot

Over 2000cc - Shinozuka/Meadows

Group N overall - Nishiyama/Yamaguchi

No other Group N categories with finishers besides Over 2000cc

RAlly Leaders - TC1-12, Shinozuka; TC13-41, Tauziac; TC45-85, de Mevius;
	TC86-96, Shinozuka.

Winner's Average Speed  97.73 kph --> 60.73 mph

World Championship for Drivers: 1,Auriol,120; 2,Kankkunen,107; 3,Sainz,104;
4,Biasion,52; 5,Delecour,45; 6,Alen,40; 7,McCrae&Recalde 28; 9, Bugalski,Liatta,&Fiorio, 22;etc.

Results copied without permission from AutoSport 5 November 1992.

AutoSport News Line in Britain 011-44-0839-123124  
Calls are charged at 36p/min(cheap rate) 48p/min all other times!!!!!!!

					-Mac.

-- 
| Sirish 'RACE OR DIE' Vissa                       |--\__            _____  |
| Gen II  Motorsports, India              /-------|     \---\       /  27 | |
| svissa@mentor.cc.purdue.edu        /--\/__/-----------------\_ /--\\----/ |
| sirish@mn.ecn.purdue.edu       _/_|_()_|__|##|_FERRARI______|:|_()_|      |
From: barrey@whocares.not.me (Barrey Jewall)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Buck Baker Driving School
Date: 19 Nov 92 02:42:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: saruman.barrey.722140949
Distribution: usa
Organization: Novell, Inc.

In <1edjjqINN7ge@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cg894@cleveland.Freenet.Edu 
(Brian Lee Wilson) writes:

>Does anyone have any info on the Buck Baker racing school?

Awhile back, someone posted this:

***********

I can recommend that you take the Fast Track High Performance
Driving School at Charlotte Motor Speedway to get a good feeling for asphalt.
I took the school as a fan this year and it was a great experience.  They
provide Winston Cup, BGN and Sportsman cars in a three day basic oval course
for $1800.  Call Andy Hillenburg there at 704-455-1700 and tell him you heard
about the course from a ***VERY*** satisfied graduate.  I won't be racing, but
I will go back there for the refresher course as a great vacation.

***********

Good Luck!!      
BAh

--
+ Barrey Jewall - Network  Admin.++  and yea, though I walk through the shadow 
+ barrey@novell.com	         ++ of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am
+ Novell, Inc.- San Jose, Calif. ++ the meanest sonofabitch in the valley...
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: jeremyt@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Jeremy Tree)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Any road-rally fans out there?
Keywords: rallying
Date: 22 Nov 92 15:43:14 GMT
Organization: University of Sussex

Hello to all readers, I am a road-rally navigator currently involved in
the aswmc (assocation of south-western motor clubs) road-rally
championship.
I have since moved down to Brighton, to do my degree at sussex
university. I am aware that the acsmc exists and this note is to any
reader who knows of it or is a member. Similarly if you are a member of
any clubs in the sussex area or relatively near send me a note about
your clubs activities. I am still competing up on the aswmc events but
it means lugging myself up to devon all the time. Which I would really
like to avoid, my driver lives up there so he doesn't mind. Oh, and if
you drive at all but need a navigator I would probably be interested.
   Anyway, any help or info gratefully accepted, sorry to bore all you
americans 'cause this is purely a British question, similarly those who
are only interested in f1 won't find this applicable either.
                 Cheers Jeremy.
 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: garr@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (guido.a.rijo)
Subject: Andretti
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:59:30 GMT
Keywords: F1, Indy, American

 
>I'll be damned!  Another person who respects Mario!  Let's see now...
>that brings the total up to five of us in r.a.s., by my count.
>You made my day.
> 
>Dave Wilson
 
Dave, Am I one of the five mentioned above?, If not count me in.

Someone else mentioned that Mario was born in Italy. I just want
to mention that you don't have to be born in the USA to be an American,
I am a living example.

Guido Rijo
gar@mozart.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport