From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: Guns & self defense
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:27:35 GMT

In article <92323.11512134AEJ7D@CMUVM.BITNET> 34AEJ7D@CMUVM.BITNET writes:
>
>>Camille Paglia was correct in her example that you don't walk down a dark
>>alleyway alone if you don't want to get assulted.
>>        I'm *not* saying that this is what you did, but it is true and knowing
>>how *not* to get into a voilent situation is the first thing they teach you in
>>many marshal arts and self-defense classes. I have found this to be very
>>usefull and cannot imagine putting myself in a situation where I was going to
>>be surrounded by gun toting thugs.
>
>You seem to be confusing the martial arts concept of never STARTING
>or INCITING hostilities with a sort of fuzzy, talismanic idea that
>taking Karate lessons will automatically prevent someone else from
>attacking. 

I don't think that's what she meant at all. The difference between putting
yourself into a situation where you might have to use your martial arts
training vs. beaing able to defend yourself in an unexpected situation is
all, I believe, she meant. Surely the lady knows better than to think that
*anything* is going to act as some sort of shield to prevent the weirdos
from showing up some time. One can chose not to walk down the alley, and
avoid potential trouble. The first tenet of the Oriental martial arts is
taken from the writings of Sun Tzu. The best way to avoid a fight, is not
to be there.

>Bear in mind that there are predatory individuals out there
>who can and will attack suddenly, without warning and with lethal intent.
>Many of them are at least as skilled in close combat as the average
>martial arts groupie, some are also dedicated to their own dark versions
>of pagan gods/goddesses, and none are hampered by the societal
>programming to be a helpless 'Bambi', a defenseless victim, that
>is inflicted on us all by modern society. The result is that they do
>not HESITATE that fraction of a second that their quarry almost always
>does; that fraction of a second that makes the difference between life
>and death.

This is true. But do you really believe that you'll be able to use that
fraction of a second to draw a gun, release the safety, cock it (if necessary),
and fire it effectively any faster than you could use hand to hand combat
techniques, or, better yet, run away and scream your bloody head off?

>>        The other thing I'm noticing about a number of the posts here is the
>>chest thumping. I'm *not* talking about anyone in particular, I don't want to
>>point any statements out, but I have noticed a lot of the descriptions and
>>diatribes being posted remind me of adolecent males talking about their dicks.
>
>Couldn't you spare us this regurgitation of shopworn, media-hyped
>pop psychology? Such ignorant, gratuitous insults directed against
>an entire sex add nothing to the debate and only tend to generate
>reataliatory accusations of "penis envy" on the part of the accuser.

But she's right. Why get upset about that?

>>Handguns, rifles, machine guns, all described with loving joy. These are
>>weapons for killing people we are talking about! Just keep that in mind. It's
>
>You are blinded and able to see only your self-defined facet of the
>object. Obviously, baseball bats, knives, golf clubs, and automobiles
>are much more dangerous, since they are silent, more easily accessible
>to anyone (in some cases COMPLETELY UNREGULATED), far more powerful (in
>the case of the automobile) and responsible for a much greater number
>of deaths every day. By dwelling on your dark visions, you
>make that the reality in your world.

But she's not comparing guns to other implements that can be used as weapons,
she's pointing out how people get caught up in glorifying guns to the point
of near deification. Again, she's right. Guns are made for one thing, killing.
There's nothing glorious in taking a life.

>>starting to sound as bad as my trip to the gunshop where a greasy man fondled
>>the barrel of a gun he wanted to sell me and talked about how fast it could
>>"spurt" bullets. Not as "potent" as his gun of course, but it can really
>>"spew out the lead". Just sick.
>
>Obviously, there is disharmony ("sickness", to use your term) somewhere.
>
>You really need to look into yourself and do some meditation about this
>if you always arrive at such twisted interpretations of a sales pitch
>delivered by what you so clearly delineate as a member of a sex other
>than your own. How is such an attitude different from that directed
>against Blacks by the Klu Klux Klan not so many years ago, or against
>Dr. Martin Luther King much more recently?

I got a good chuckle out of this one. I've worked with sales people for a
number of years, and no matter what the product is, they will give you the
pitch that *they* believe will be the most convincing. There is a serious
macho attitude assigned to guns in particular, and men will often refer to
them almost lovingly, like one would a sweetheart. I'm sure that some women
also share this attitude. I've heard women talk about motorcycles in a 
sexual fashion, for example. There's nothing sexist in Ashely's comments,
and it has nothing to do with the attitudes of white supremecists towards
people of a different colour or religion. It's all a matter of viewpoint.
Some people view guns as a necessary evil, others as the means to an end,
anad still others get some sense of false security or a more macho self
imagae from owning one.

The point of this whole topic is not whether guns are good or bad or should
be banned or not. It's really about how they are used against other human
beings, and why we, as humans, feel such a desparate need to carry some sort
of defense around all the time. The topic should be on paranoia in today's
society, and how to combat *that*, or change the attitudes of people so that
we all have a greater understanding and acceptance of one another. With that
kind of attitude, I believe there will be less need to run around armed to
the teeth. The paranoid with an itchy trigger finger is probably more dangerous
to society as a whole than the rapist hiding in the alley you can avoid.

Let's start a conversation about how to cure the ills of society. Once we've
cured the psychoses and neuroses that make the rapists and murders, once
we've abolished the causes of violent crimes, then the rest will take care 
of itself. But this continuous bantering about whether a gun is an assault
rifle or a hunting rifle and the advantages of one type over another is
senseless and futile. Don't ban the guns, ban the uses to which they are put.
Greater social consciousness is what's needed, and you can't regulate that
with a bunch of laws.

>I will pray for you to my chosen diety(ies).

Pray for all of us, and include yourself in the list. You're as needy of
it as the rest of us.

Bb,
Corun




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    Corun MacAnndra    |    My opinions *are* those of my boss, because
  Dark Horde by birth  |   he is me, and I am he, and we are all together.
    Moritu by choice   |                 Coo coo cachoob.