HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: How can different digital cables sound different?
From: deanaj@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (A. J. Dean)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 03:16:16 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering, University of Canterbury, New Zealand
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Kerry Shetline (shetline@bbn.com) wrote:
: break. So where would jitter come from? About the only thing that could add
: real jitter would be the VERY VERY SLIGHT change that temperature
: variations introduce to the speed of electrical signals through a given
:.... 
: I can see how noise might deform pulse edges and screw up clock recovery.
: But that is still an issue of reasonable shielding and better DAC design.
: Not a reason for high-priced cables.

[not attempting to throw light on anything else yet] Noise can definitely
affect jitter, especially when those pulse edges are much more slanted than
you would hope - add noise and the DAC won't know where that edge really is.
I do believe that in most cases the cable's s/n ratio, RFI pickup,
microphonics etc will have a negligible effect, but who can tell when there
are so many ingredients which can go wrong in so many subtley combined ways!

My present opinion is that jitter in the transport's data stream is the
cause of the 'my digital cables sound different' problem. Well, more
accurately it _is_ the fault of the DAC. A DAC's job (in theory) is to
create the correct voltage-time analogue output signal from the digital
input in all situations. Not only should each sample's value be translated
to the correct analogue level, but each sample's number (ie 1, 2, 3 ..
21345445) should translate to the correct time (ie they should be used
regularly and accurately at 44.1kHz in the way the sampling was done). If a
DAC extracts its 'clock' directly from the digital interconnect (which I
imagine a few would) then the temporal (ie time) aspect of the D-A
conversion is actually being carried out within the transport! A desirable
characteristic if you make a DAC and transport and want to sell the two
together...

I recently ordered the two Stereophile test CDs (1 and 2) and I think it is
test CD 2 which has jitter test tracks on it. One is a no jitter/jitter
comparison where the jitter was introduced in the A-D conversion (I haven't
read the booklet yet but it seems to go into a fair bit of detail). I forget
the amount but it worked out to a 400 ppm instability in the sample time,
and was clearly audible (by clearly I mean instantly and obviously in
probably any listening condition). The tone (11kHz sinewave) became hissy,
edgey, with a distorted 'digital' sound to it. Granted, 400 ppm is huge, but
I couldn't safely rule out the audibility of say 1ppm jitter under the type
of listening conditions I could afford! I think the speccy analyser picture
in the booklet put the spurious components at 60dB down from the signal,
must have another look. I will verify it on my portable player once the
holidays finish and/or I finally get my keys to the room full of 'HP' badges
and the associated bits of equipment stuck to the back of them.  

Antony. (deanaj@elec.canterbury.ac.nz
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: How can different digital cables sound different?
Date: 5 Jan 93 20:37:35 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation

In article <gmaltby.38.726234819@unpcs1.cs.unp.ac.za> gmaltby@unpcs1.cs.unp.ac.za (Gavin Maltby) writes:
>
>CAn you tell me what is the effective rate of data transmission down
>a coax link between transport and DAC?
>
   It will be over 1.4 mHz...figure it out yourself....32*44100 +
   whatever overhead bits.

   And although I've been giving Pascal a rough time about cabling,
   unless the cable is real garbage or damaged, I'd have to blame
   the transmitter and/or receiver or power/grounding or RF
   isolation for any errors in that area.

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: michael@Canada.lsil.com (Michael Smith)
Subject: What is a BBE Sonic Maximizer
Reply-To: michael@Canada.lsil.com
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation of Canada, Inc.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 13:27:05 GMT

On my 10th aniversary special edition Aiwa "walkman", there is a BBE enhancement
circuit.  I've seen ads in the back of Stereo Review for a "BBE Sonic Maximizer".
What is this thing?  From using my walkman, it appears to increase high-frequency
component of the signal.  So, is this just an EQ under a fancy name?  The
component version is about $190 U.S., so I can't image that it is even a good
EQ.  (No, I'm *NOT* implying that only expensive stuff is good stuff, many
expensive audio items are complete scams/rip-offs...  but, a good EQ requires
high quality components, which could not be put into a $190 box and still maintain
your 100% markup....)

---
     Michael Smith - Chipset Design Engineer

Phone: (416) 620-7400         michael@canada.lsil.com
Fax:   (416) 694-5005

    _/     _/_/   _/_/_/   _/                   _/
   _/    _/        _/     _/ 
  _/      _/_/    _/     _/     _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/
 _/         _/   _/     _/     _/  _/ _/  _/ _/ _/
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/   _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/
                                        _/   LSI Logic Corp. of Canada, Inc.
                                   _/_/_/   Suite 1110, 401 The West Mall
                                           Etobicoke, Ontario
                                          M9C 5J5


Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: gfl@herahera.cc.bellcore.com (lenahan,grant f)
Subject: Re: Those b*s*a*ds in the white van - I hope they got them.
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 19:16:59 GMT
Summary: a buncha comments

bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion) writes:
philip@think.com (Philip Mucci) writes:
> >	I got taken quite a number a years ago by the very same people.
> >They told be at the time that they were BOSE studio speakers being
> >delivered to a record co. in the area. I was skeptical at the time - so
> >for a test I said ("You realize I am spending my tuition money...if these
> >are worthless I can't go to school in the fall.") These SOBs took my money
> >anyways and stuck me with garbage.

Obviously, this has nothing to do with audio.  ALL THE BETTER :-)


1- You knowingly bought stolen goods - you should be in jail by your logic.
2- Doesn't anyone take responsability for their own actions?
3- Re: Ronnie.  Fraud IS illegal.  What's your point?
4- IF they were BOSE, would that make them better?

> Selling junk - be it speakers or anything else - to gullible customers
> by using unbeleivable stories - is something that has been going on as
> long as recorded history.
> 
> There is nothing illegal about that.

But, there is something illegal about misrepresentation.
Of course, this buyer was mind-bogglingly dumb.

Laissez Faire!

Grant

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: dmoran@world.std.com (david r moran)
Subject: Re: Suggestions wanted for a sub-woofer!
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 05:08:55 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.014425.2732@dunix.drake.edu> kjt001@dunix.drake.edu (Devil Bunny!) writes:
>I'm looking into getting a subwoofer, and I would appreciate suggestions
>for a subwoofer - relatively inexpensive.  I would like to get one about
>the same quality as my speakers - Infinity Reference Ones.
>
>My amp doesn't have a subwoofer output - what difference will this make?
>
>Thanks!
>
>-kevin
>
>-- 
>___________________________________________________________________________
>|                        Kevin Tieskoetter                                |
>|   kjt001@acad.drake.edu                     kjt001@dunix.drake.edu      |
>|                               Drake University                          |


From measurements I have done for reviews in CD Review and Speaker
Builder, the two choices are Velodyne and Hsu Research, the former
powered and around $1k, the latter unpowered and around $800. They
are both excellent, go very deep, and have very low distortion.
A recent review in Audio by Keele concluded the same thing.
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: How can different digital cables sound different?
Date: 5 Jan 93 21:10:05 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation

In article <C0E2ry.7Hq@world.std.com> DPierce@world.std.com (Richard D Pierce) writes:
pascal>>If you stay within the specs of the respective lan's topology, you
>>should be getting error-free transmissions 99.99999% of the time. Collisions
>>are another story, and aren't effected by cabling (I have installed my
>>fair share of LANs). 
>>
>
>Take it from someone who is heavily involved in the design of a
>professional digital audio editing workstation. An error-free rate of
>99.99999% implies a sample error once every 10 million samples which, at
>44.1 kHz sample rate stereo implies a wrong sample once every 113 seconds.
>If we delivered our product with that kind of error rate, the customers
>would have every right to reject the product. Say the one sample you got
>wrong has the most significant bit flipped, the means you'll get a one
>sample polarity reversal. That will manifest itself as quite and audible
>click.
>
    Not only that but that's a truly horrid error rate for a LAN.
    T/R typically has a MINIMUM bit error rate 3 orders of magnitude
    better than that figure....
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: crh@wam.umd.edu (Craig Hinners)
Subject: Re: Any experience with Sony D-515 portable CD player?
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 04:45:00 GMT

csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey) writes:
>I want to buy a portable that doesn't skip when you breathe on it, and
>which has a compression circuit for car use. I've got only a few specs
>on the Sony D-515, and I'm wondering if anyone can answer the
>following questions:
>
>What is the disk holding mechanism? Some have ball-bearings with
>springs that hold the disk in place. In others, the disk just lies on
>a platter. The latter doesn't work well in my experience.

I've owned one of these beasties since September.  Works like
a charm in the car.  You'd have to hit one hell of a bump (or
drive any road in Pennsylvania) to use up the three-second buffer.

The spindle has three ball bearings on it which hold the disc so well
that most of the time you don't even need the ESP on.  I don't know
why they don't use the ball bearings on all their models...
>
>Will the memory buffer and the DSP circuit work simultaneously?

Yes.
>
>Does it come with a car 12 volt adapter?

No.  Available for ~$22 from Sony dealer.  You'll also need one of the
adapters that connects to your cassette deck.
>
>What kind of batteries does it use? Can it accept an external battery
>pack of AAs?

Either the supplied Sony rechargable or 2 AA's.  The Sony battery 
gives a little longer output.  ESP on decreases battery life
by about 2 hours.  (Ingenious internal battery compartment; you
swing a little door into place to accomodate AA's.)
>
>Would you say it seems rugged or fragile?

Well, as far as these things go, its all-metal construction puts
it in the rugged category.  Considering its $480 cost, I don't
want to try to prove this theory, though. :) 
>
>Is the headphone voltage sufficient? I use a pair of MDR-V6
>headphones, and some CD players don't seem to drive them well.

Using the supplied Sony phones with remote, yes.  Using your
own phones sans remote, there may not be enough depending on
what your needs are.  It has enough power for my Sennheiser 420's
but I listen at a modest volume to begin with; if I was shooting to
be deaf at 55 I'd venture to say it's underpowered.  Best bet:
take your phones to a store and try it out.
>
>Thanks for anything you can offer on this...
>
>Sean
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: CD Cleaning Suggestion (in article form...)
Date: 6 Jan 93 21:32:37 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation

In article <1idoolINN7js@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> co940@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Nicholas E. Damato) [a budding mad scientist] writes:
> 
>Have tough CD cleaning problems? I have an Idea.
> 
>But, it has to be gentle,
>and not too expensive.
>hmmmmm...

>One morning it hit me like a rock...
>I was cleaning my contacts. Contacts, perhaps the most fragile
>and gentle of all common polymers, yet they can get pretty
>grimey.
> 
   Even better are camera lens cleaning products.  Better still
   these products are designed to do no harm to polycarbonates.

   And they are not as "gentle" as the lens cleaners so they'll
   clean grungier library disks.  A lens chamois and cleaner works
   wonders at adding sparkle to CD's...best of all most lens
   cleaners are also antistatic.
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: roth@3d.enet.dec.com (Jim Roth)
Subject: Re: Wanted to know bi-amp speakers advantages
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date:  6 JAN 93 19:02:38    


In article <TONYB.93Jan6155705@ursula.juliet.ll.mit.edu>, tonyb@juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Tony Berke ) writes...
>In article <C0Eq4u.BCE@world.std.com> DPierce@world.std.com (Richard D Pierce) writes:
>   In article <1993Jan5.174202.1533@eafs000.ca.boeing.com> Mark J. Vandiver writes:
>   >>>     I have a pair of m-1 mirage speakers. It bi-amp.
>   >>>Can anyone tell me what's the advantage of a bi-am speakr?

>   >[more stuff deleted...]
> 
>It wasn't mentioned, but multi-amping can, both in theory and in
>practice, greatly reduce the odds of melting midranges and tweeters.
>If you're going to clip the woofer amp, then there are some obvious
>benifits to having the tweeter connected to an altogether different
>amp.  I have a fair number of positive and negative examples of this
>phenomenon from both my PA and home reproduction experience.

>Biamping also has a well documented ability to mask much of the
>audible effects of clipping in the low-frequency amplifier.  If one is
>doing PA work, or likes to listen at dangerous volume levels, a
>properly sized multi-amped system with a given total amplifier power
>can typically produce higher SPLs from the same speaker components
>than you would obtain by using a passive crossover and a single amp.

Even better is to be sure the amplifiers *never clip* by using
soft limiters!  In my opinion, there is no valid excuse for letting
amplifiers in any really high end system be driven into output stage
clipping.

This business of having to design expensive ultra high current amps
so that they may be able to "clip cleanly" with all kinds of reactive
energy kicking around is nonsense, but that seems to be the design
philosophy behind the likes of Krell etc.

A good multi way setup can be designed to never fry any speaker and
can even handle the displacement limits of the woofers.

And on the subject of woofers, if your drivers happen to be a little
out of spec (as most of the ones hobbyists can buy are), you can
compensate for this easily with biquadratic equalizers or even modest
amounts of motional feedback.  I know since I've done it.

There is some vertical integration now in the form of subwoofers like
Velodyne - it would be nice to see more full range speakers designed
this way, but given the superstition put forth about amplification
by the tweako press this will not be likely to go over too well.
But I'm convinced it would lead to more economical system design
with the same or better performance.  It would be one less headache
for the consumer to worry about.

But where's the fun if you can't swap your speakers, amps, biwire, etc?
(or write endlessly about the random permutations...)

- Jim
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: harit@kripalu.com
Subject: Re: comments on a/v receivers
Reply-To: harit@kripalu.com
Organization: Kripalu Center
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 12:32:59 GMT

In article <8fI7bQ600iUOMvQ71r@andrew.cmu.edu> wcw+@CMU.EDU (Walter Wong)  
writes:
> I'm looking into the purchase of an a/v receiver for my "home theater"
> system. My minimum requirements are:
> 	Dolby ProLogic
> 	S-Video: 2 in/out
> 	Audio: 4 in/ 2 out
> 	Video: 4 in/ 3out
> 
> If it matters, a satellite receiver, svhs vcr, and a 27" tv are in the
> system. Laserdisc isn't important at this time but I want to leave
> that option open. The "main" speakers will be the speakers from the
> current receiver, for now, and I haven't decided on center/surround
> speakers yet (though I'm leaning towards Cambridge Sound Works, for no
> good reason other than simplicity).
> 
> After digging through the various magazines lying around my house, I
> found the following receivers:
> 	Pioneer VSX-D901S
> 	Pioneer Elite VSX-95
> 	JVC RX-905V
> 	JVC RX-1050VTN
> 	Onkyo TX-SV909Pro
> 
> Would anyone care to comment on any of the recievers? Any others that
> I should be looking at? Am I missing any important factors?
> 
> I don't want to be too demanding, but specific likes and dislikes
> would be prefered over "yeah, I like it." :-)
> 
> I'll summarize any replies.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Walter
> ---
> internet:wcw+@cmu.edu

I would recomend looking at the Yamaha line.  I am very happy with mine.  When  
you look at the Pioneer line in particular be carefull about center channel  
power.  Many of their receivers have low power centers.

-- 
Michael Allen Latta
Kripalu Center
harit@kripalu.com
(413)448-3288
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: fineberg@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Samuel A. Fineberg)
Subject: Re: Selecting an LD Player
Organization: CSC, NASA Ames Research Center, NAS Division
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 19:46:10 GMT
Reply-To: fineberg@nas.nasa.gov

In article <1993Jan5.213214.22575@lsican.uucp>, michael@Canada.lsil.com (Michael Smith) writes:
|> In article 030193230909@128.89.19.85, shetline@bbn.com (Kerry Shetline) writes:
|> >It is not just my personal prejudice, but a simple matter of what it
|> >means for something to be 'digital': Numbers are numbers. Bits are bits.
|> >If the same sequence of bits, with the same timing, issues forth from
|> >the digital output of a transport, then a particular DAC will respond in
|> >the same way. If the tweeks you've mentioned don't ultimately effect
|> >this bit stream, *they cannot effect the audio signal*. And there is
|> >very little for these tweeks to do to the bit stream. Data errors are
|> >rare, timing is well maintained, and nearly anything that over stresses
|> >the tracking, timing, or data transfer from a CD will result in
|> >catastrophic failure, not subtle sonic effects. (This either-everything-
|> >is-fine-or-it-blows-up character is a common feature of digital systems.)
|> 
|> Has anyone on the net actually taken the digital output from a CD player and
|> pumped into a home PC and compared the output with and without the "green pen",
|> the "CD rings", and all of the other "send-your-money-now" add-ons that have
|> appeared for CDs?  A bit-by-bit comparison would rule out any differences in the
|> bit-stream using these gadgets, and leave transport related issues adding to
|> the room noise.
|> 
|> ---
|>      Michael Smith - Chipset Design Engineer
|> 
|> Phone: (416) 620-7400         michael@canada.lsil.com
|> Fax:   (416) 694-5005
|> 
|>     _/     _/_/   _/_/_/   _/                   _/
|>    _/    _/        _/     _/ 
|>   _/      _/_/    _/     _/     _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/
|>  _/         _/   _/     _/     _/  _/ _/  _/ _/ _/
|> _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/   _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/
|>                                         _/   LSI Logic Corp. of Canada, Inc.
|>                                    _/_/_/   Suite 1110, 401 The West Mall
|>                                            Etobicoke, Ontario
|>                                           M9C 5J5
Yes, Stereo review did this.  In fact, what they did was attach a counter to 
the error correction circuitry and counted the number of errors.  As expected,
none of the tweaks did anything, except that armour all made the number of errors
increase.

Sam
From: kjt001@dunix.drake.edu (Devil Bunny!)
Subject: Suggestions wanted for a sub-woofer!
Organization: Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa, USA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 01:44:25 GMT

I'm looking into getting a subwoofer, and I would appreciate suggestions
for a subwoofer - relatively inexpensive.  I would like to get one about
the same quality as my speakers - Infinity Reference Ones.

My amp doesn't have a subwoofer output - what difference will this make?

Thanks!

-kevin

-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
|                        Kevin Tieskoetter                                |
|   kjt001@acad.drake.edu                     kjt001@dunix.drake.edu      |
|                               Drake University                          |
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: rsilvers@nynexst.com (Robert Silvers)
Subject: Re: Stereo Review's critical judgement
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 16:36:12 GMT

In article <C0DBEE.4An@CAM.ORG> pascal@CAM.ORG (Pascal Gosselin) writes:
>
>Fast question:
>
>Is there a CD player on the market with large read-ahead buffer (a-la-
>minidisk) that will prevent skipping? It is so simple, I wonder why
>nobody seems to have done it yet for CDs.
>

	It works for MD because the drive can read 4 times the real-time
data rate -- so if it mistracks, and the buffer starts to empty, it can
quickly fill it again at four times the normal rate.  It is hard to read
a CD at 2 or 4 times the normal rate.  NEC makes a CD drive that can read
at 2 times real time, but then the RAM buffer would have to be 8 times
larger than a MD buffer to work as well.  (About 3 MB).

						--Rob.


Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: carlwu@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Carleton Wu)
Subject: Active Crossovers
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 03:31:57 GMT

Does anyone know of any reasonably priced active crossover that is of high 
quality?  BTW, what's the difference between Butterworth and Linkwitz-Riley 
types?  Is one better?

The only one I've seen that seems pretty good is the Sledgehammer model from
MADISOUND Speaker Components.  It has adjustible frequency, 24-db
Linkwitz-Riley filters and supposedly uses polypropylene and 1% metal film 
resistors in critical areas.  They even mention using high-slewing op-amps!
Unfortunately price is around $500.  I would think $3-400 would be more 
reasonable for most non-rich-person budgets.

Carleton Wu
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: mbmg@beethoven.mitre.org (Michael B. Michnikov)
Subject: Vandersteen, Paradigm, Definitive Technology, PSB Speaker Sources
Organization: Research Computer Facility, MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 13:57:45 GMT

Telephone numbers of manufacturers?  Dealers in the Boston/NH area?

Thank you.
Newsgroups: rec.audio