From: vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten)
Subject: Re: PETA Activities Suspected of Violating FCC Act, Says PPF
Organization: CIE, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 01:33:32 GMT

Steve Pope writes:

>vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten) writes:
>>I really don't think this is what Charles meant to imply -- at least
>>that the funding is licensing specific, since obviously it's not.  Are
>>you aware that over 80% of the DOI's funding comes from an 11% excise
>>tax on guns, ammo, bows, etc. and the sale of Duck Stamps?  
>
>Okay, John, if you throw in the excise taxes on firearms and ammo,
>that's a much bigger pool of tax revenue than just the license fees.
>Apologies if I misinterpreted Charles on this point.
>
>However only a fraction of this excise tax is on firearms and ammo 
>that are used for hunting specifically -- does your 80% number above 
>take this into account? What fraction of firearm/ammo usage can be 
>attributed to hunters?  Where I live (Alameda County, CA) I imagine 
>it's pretty damned low.  Probably half the ammo sold this year was 
>simply as a reaction to the King riots...

Honestly, Steve, I really don't know what percentage of the excise tax
money comes from hunters.  Nor does anyone else.  That's why the
claims that hunters donate N dollars to the environment is handwaving
at best.  The money from license fees can be accurately measured, but
the DOI money (excise tax and Duck Stamps) isn't well characterized.
The total amount is over a billion dollars per year (I don't have the
exact figures).  It is estimated that there are over 65 million gun
owners in America, of which 17 million are hunters.  Then the
handwaving starts.  Some experts say 65/17 means about 1/4 of the
excise money comes from hunters, and they add this to the license fees
and get a little over one billion per year from hunters.  Other
experts say it should be more like 1/3, since hunters are known to use
their equipment each year (or they wouldn't get licenses) vs. a large
number of guns used for self defense which are seldom fired.  Still
other experts note that since most Duck Stamps are bought by hunters,
that the money from the DOI is probably 1/2 from hunters (these folks
end up with estimates of up near 1.5 billion per year from hunters).
What the truth is, nobody really knows.  All we know for sure is that
the combination of license fees and even conservative estimates of DOI
money place hunters at the top spot of money spent on the environment.


>>Clearly you don't have the numbers, since Charles's claim is accurate.
>>Whether you AR folk like it or not, hunters are the single largest
>>source of funds to help the environment.  Period.  
>
>Again, I'm willing to be convinced, but so far, I am still
>suspicious of such claims.

Here I don't know what to do to convince you.  You've every right to
be suspicious, since we don't know the hard numbers.  But pretty much
everyone admits hunters are the biggest source (maybe not Ingrid
Newkirk :-).  Even the conservative ones.


[stuff about PETA deleted]
>I do support the Nature Conservancy, and a few others who spend
>money directly on conservation.  Which is really my point: if
>the public has a desire to support conservation, through the
>spending og private and/or public monies, they will, regardless of 
>attitudes and policies towards hunting.  

Supporting such groups is a great thing, and I'm very glad you do.  I
donate a little money myself to help out.  However, I still (am
pesimistic enough to) think that a lot of hunters that now buy
licenses will not donate the same amount later if hunting were to be
stopped.  Some would be appathetic and not donate.  Some would be
pissed off and not donate.  And some (many?) like me would still
donate.  Despite being pissed off. :-)


>> ...burying one's head in the sand rarely makes the facts go away.
>
>Quite true, but you still haven't said much to illuminate things.

I don't have all the hard numbers.  I wish I did.


John

--
******************************************************************************
               John S. Van Etten     vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu
       Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute  1000 MIPS GaAs F-RISC Project
       --"If sand didn't irritate oysters, there would be no pearls"--
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns