HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alex@took.enet.dec.com ("Alex Allister Shvartsman, EMF,              LKG2-2/T2")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Romanian language
Date: 7 Sep 92 03:33:36 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

RE: Dmitri Leschiner <dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM>

# >#[Viznyuk]  After annexation by Romania, the script was changed
# ># to Latin and remained such until Moldavia's re-annexation
# ># by Uncle Joe i.e. during 20 years.
#
# > Wrong again! You might find it educational that the alphabet in the entire
# >Moldova (East and West) and the alphabet in the Stalin's Autonomous
# >Moldavian Soviet Socialist Republic (i.e., much of Transnistria) were one
# >and the same -- Latin! It was not until late 1930s that the alphabet in
# >Transnistria/AMSSR is changed to Cyrillic. This was done as a precursor to
# >Stalin's re-annexation of East Moldova.
#
# It apparently has nothing to do with (allegedly planned) re-annexation.
# It was a common communist policy in 20-ies of establishing Latin script
# for all non-Slavic nations in USSR (even those who already had either
# Cyrillic or Arabic one). In another drastic shift of what probably was
# the first precursor of "new national policy", resulted in 1940-ies in
# mass depotations of nations and harsh promoting of "Russian patriotism"
# (communist-style), bolshevics suddenly changed all those new scripts to
# Cyrillics in 1938. It was not applied to Moldovans specifically, but to
# all nations uniformly. At that time Hitler-Stalin pact was not even in
# project (except in Stalin's mind??) yet.

Although this point is arguable, I definitely disagree in the case of
Moldova. It might have been coincidental, but the switch from Latin to
Cyrillic, in effect, played a direct role in Stalin's re-annexing East
Moldova. The alphabet issue was used as yet another "evidence" (along with
Soviet version of history, etc.) that Moldovans are distinct from Romanians.
There were also attempts to Slavicise the language, e.g., by replacing
certain Latin terms with Slavic derivatives.  These attempts, luckily and
nearly miraculously, failed [a very interesting topic in itself!]. The
imposition of Cyrillic alphabet also had the effect of altering the
phonetics, since certain diacritical marks were lost.

Finally, note that Moldova was annexed at the same time as the Baltics.
Baltics preserved the Latin while Moldova was Cyrillicised.

Alex
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Bulgakov
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:59:11 GMT

>One can - and you may see how looking at Ms. Schwarz :-)

Why are you being so nasty to me? I haven't insulted you.

This makes me feel really bad. Please do put me in your kill file,
if I'm making such an unpleasant reaction in you.

-patricia
From: mmarkish@FEDS46.PRIME.COM (Mark Markish x2799)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: something quite familiar
Date: 6 Sep 92 20:13:43 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

The noisy if discordant attempts to mutlify Dr.Shafarevich and his
Russopobia (worse than that: Mutlu at least _reads_ what his opponents
have to say) unfailingly induce very vivid and gruesome parallels:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What? You want me to read this      :  What? Why should I care to read
anti-Semitic garbage?               :  their zhidovskie writings?
                                    :
He says bad things about Jews; it   :  He writes something about Jews;
means he is an anti-Semite, and     :  probably, he is a Jew himself,
should be committed to an asylum.   :  and should be deported to Israel.
                                    :
I have read that magazine, and you  :  I have read that magazine, and you
know what? on page 17 there is a    :  know what`s the name of the
reference to the Pamiat' society!   :  assistant editor?  Rabinovich!
                                    :
Haven't you heard this news yet?    :  Haven't you heard this news yet?
XYZ once gave an interview to an    :  XYZ had a Jewish grandfather!
anti-Semitic newspaper!             :
                                    :
I know only one thing: he is not    :  I know only one thing: he has
an anti-Semite, so I trust him      :  nothing in common s zhidami, so I
immensely.                          :  profoundly respect him.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

                       Same bull****, different day.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: leonid@thyme.uchicago.edu (Leonid Andreev)
Subject: Re: What's Rakhov like?
Organization: University of Chicago CILS
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 23:41:28 GMT

In article <9209082226.AA07539@feds66.Prime.COM> dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM (Dmitri Leschiner) writes:

>   >From: George Petrov <petrov@TFS.COM>
>
>   >	Is it time to consider returning Mukachevo to Slovakia or
>   >	Hungary?
>
>   Of course it is. I guess Kravchuk should return Ungvar (Uzhgorod)
>   and Munkacsi and Beregvar to Magyarorszag as soon as Slovakia will
>   return their Hungarian lands to the same.....................

It seemed really strange to me when I've been there, that the population
of the place were pretty loyal to the Soviets and nobody didn't talk
( at least too loudly ) about possible re-union with Hungary. They
were permitted to cross the border without visas, though, so they 
probably didn't feel so strong discomfort from being occupied etc.
But it still was strange. If Baltic states were occupied by 
Russia since XVI century ( so they could've got used to it :), 
this territory has been being under the Soviets for just 50 years, 
there still are lot of people who remember the whole thing.

I wonder, what's going on there now?... 


 
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Leonid S Andreev,    Center for Information and Language Studies,  |
|  (312) 955 5012        University of Chicago, Chicago IL, 60637.   |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: vadim@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: y6eu B ce6e XACAHA! ( was: Re: Russian poetry )
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:04:08 EDT

In article <1992Sep10.102423.24745@cco.caltech.edu>, patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz) writes:
>>>Well, some of her postings are somewhat unadequate - when she
>>>manages to find something feministic in Master&Margaret etc.
>>>But note, that there's nothing offensive for anybody in any 
>>>of her articles.
> 
> You don't own Master and Margaret. And neither do I. I think Bulgakov had
> more talent than to write just to the understanding of one single individual.
> If there were just one correct understanding of any work of literature, then
> the field of literary criticism would not exist.
> 
>>I don't have anything against Ms. Schwarz personally.
>>What's more, maybe if I would meet her I'd fall from the love
>>from first sight
> 
> A cold day in hell. You're a small-minded, bitter coward and I have
> nothing to do with people like you, Russian or feminist or Communist
> or anything. Perhaps you are some disappointed emigrant. Or maybe there
> is some deeper, more sorrowful source of this poisonous anger that you fling
> at me. But nonetheless, you are not impressive at all. You trash everything
> I say, and then have nothing to offer of your own.
> 
> What's more, you're such a coward that you can't even trash me to my
> face.
> 
> I hate men and women like you. You live to abuse others.
> 
>>But she was and is very, I repeat, *very* offensive to 
>>Russian literature and culture. 
> 
> Oh pardon me, I thought Russian literature and culture was a broad
> field of human endeavor spanning centuries, with a wealth of competing
> ideas and themes and poets and writers.
> 
> I must have been wrong. It turns out that Russian literature and culture
> is actually three frustated guys on Usenet.
> 
> Wait until I tell all my friends in Moscow. It'll be a surprise, for sure.
> 
>>And she didn't understand that.
>>And she tries to write a book - with that ignorant and offensive
>>attitude.
>>-igor

  Patricia, There is a simple term for all those you discribed as
a single person above.  It's SOVOK. My guess is that it is almost uncureable
desease. (at least for such a short time)
                                         (frequently kidding
                                           -V.  (sovok))
much above. SOVOK.
From: dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM (Dmitri Leschiner)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: "democratic" Estonia
Date: 5 Sep 92 22:57:09 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

>Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 15:02:44 GMT
>From: Sergei Viznyuk <viznyuk@PHYSICS.UCLA.EDU>

>  "free elected" goverment of Estonia ? Are you kidding,
>Jarmo ? The "elections" in Estonia where 40% of population
>is prohibited to vote are as "free" as those in South Africa
>in 60-ies. And Estonians are going to repeat this show soon.
>Estonia IS a fascist state by all parameters.

What do you mean, Serezha, my dear? Last elections were held
still in USSR, when all population had a right to vote.
Now they are _not_ going to repeat this show soon.
Cool down a bit, you gonna get running a red light...

Dima
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet
From: f33012l@puukko.hut.fi (Janne Kivel{)
Subject: Re: Koenigsberg/Kaliningrad
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 10:55:16 GMT

oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky) writes:
>> In article <1992Sep4.081930.26242@nntp.hut.fi> f33012l@puukko.hut.fi
>(Janne Kivel{) writes to Vadim Antonov:
>> Your claim that Russians are the least nationalistic people in Europe
>> makes me think that you are a true 'homo sovieticus'.
>
>Just for the record, Vadim Antonov actively participated in resisting
>the last year coup by keeping electronic links up with the rest
>of the world, and letting the resistance to communicate with each
>other and the West.
>It was Business Week or Time Magazine (I forget which) which reported
>on this last September.
>As a side note, those who use insults as a means of argument are those
>whose arguments are weakest.

I have no way of knowing what kind of honorable deeds a person may have
done in the past. Hats off to Vadim for his bravery by all means.
This does not mean, however, that everything Mr. Antonov tells us is
the truth or God's divine word.

I agree that calling him 'homo sovieticus' was too much and I have already
apologized for that, but didn't the official Soviet propaganda claim that 
there are no ethnic conflicts in USSR, but instead they had friendship 
of peoples.

As a side note, those who can't stand the heat of an argument often make
wiseguy comments from the sidelines. :-)

>Oleg

Janne Kivela"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy)
Subject: Dostali idioty, was Re: y6eu B ce6e XACAHA! ( was: Re: Russian poetry )
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 20:59:27 GMT
Distribution: soc.culture.soviet
Organization: Be. I am.

Warning 1: just flames, nothing substantial
Warning 2: my last flames on this subject -

			eh, opyat' ksendzy ugovoryat Panikovskogo

In article <1992Sep11.145456.15528@husc3.harvard.edu> verbit@coolidge.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:
>
>I second this. 	Igor with his holier than thou attitude gets
>on my nerves.

Poor, poor soviet nerves. KILL file is the best known medicine. 

>Funny thing is that guys who argue about the possibility
>of understanding of Russian culture by foreigners never post
>anything substantial on the subject of culture itself.

Funny thing is that nobody argues that possibility (at least, not me).
e.g., Karl Pfeuffer and Ardis (sp?).
Though if people supposedly from the same culture can't understand what's
all that about and why - sorry. Definite proof that problem is not in
brain being foreign. Maybe something else with brain?

And you know - I stopped to retell encyclopedia with mistakes 
for the net 2-3 years ago.
So don't wait anything substantial in your sense of that world.
Just go to the library.

>How much antisemites could be found on a pin of Estonian needle
>in Roumania :) as Patricia wrote - this is Russian culture,
>as these guys understand it. 

Speak for yourself. Though I may believe
that's Ms. Patricia or your understanding.
You know - every joke is a shadow of truth.

>I  don't argue about her understanding, but I
>am not sure Patricia bashers are no better. 

much, much worse, baten'ka - and the worse - ne v Patricii ved' delo,
oh ne v nei, rodimoi

>The only thing
>which could not be found on soc.culture.soviet is culture.

but you, you, my dear?

>Misha
umolkayu, umolkayu, umolk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: galina@watson.ibm.com (Galina Kofman)_
Subject: Re: Shafarevich
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:18:53 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In  <18n39lINN4gr@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>  dima@maths.uwa.oz.au (Dima Pasechnik) writes:
>
> Considering 'Pamyat'', it is life time experience I had watching from my
> windows their demonstration. Maybe I'm too nervious but I felt half
> dead.
>
> Dima.
>
Will you please elaborate on your 'Pamyat'' experience.

Thank you.
From: alex@took.enet.dec.com ("Alex Allister Shvartsman, EMF,              LKG2-2/T2 05-Sep-1992 0819")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Non sequitur ...
Date: 5 Sep 92 12:39:18 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

RE: : Igor Belchinskiy <bil@BURKA..AIX.KINGSTON.IBM.COM>

>>> (her God father is count Tolstoy -- no less!)
>>
>>My apologies in advance, but, since it was your decision to brandish
>>count's name -- is count Tolstoy a friend of your family
>
>[...] I decided to answer the following questions from outside point of view.
>[...]

Igor, thank you, but there is no need -- I already know I should've
asked my questions in private e-mail. It was "no less!" that triggered
my response. Had the text been "her Godfather is a descendant of Tolstoy"
-- there is only one Tolstoy who does not require a first name :-) --
I would've taken the information for face value ...  For a number reasons
I am sensitized to this.

My apology,
Alex
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: CHESLEY@fox.nstn.ns.ca (John Chesley)
Subject: Email Address -  Shirshov Institute of Oceanology??
Organization: Industry Science & Technology
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 15:59:14 GMT

Hello,

Can anyone give me an email address or a fax number for the Shirshov 
Institute of Oceanology which is located, I am told, in a place called 
Gelendzhik on the Black Sea?

Am trying to reach a Dr. Sophia Safarova or a Professor A. Lisitzin.

Thank you.


John Chesley
JohnC@hfx001.ns.istc.ca
From: patricia@CCO.CALTECH.EDU ("Patricia M. Schwarz")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: A Flaming Idea
Date: 8 Sep 92 16:54:01 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

Thank you for the information, and it's nice to see another woman
in this group.

-patricia
From: dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM (Dmitri Leschiner)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Shafarevich
Date: 6 Sep 92 00:47:42 GMT
Reply-To: "soc.culture.soviet via ListServ" <SCS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

>Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 05:07:53 GMT
>From: "Mikhail S. Verbitsky" <verbit@COOLIDGE.HARVARD.EDU>

>	Actually, what Shafarevich wrote there is exactly true. He
>	was expelled from Moscow U and was near expelling from
>	Steklovka all the time. He was never a director there.

He was a director of division (zaveduyushchij otdelom) of algebra,
as he writes himself in his letter.

>	What he was never expelled from MIAN (Steklov institute)
>	could be explained by two reasons: that he was "chlen-corr"
>	(member-correspondent) of Soviet Academy and that
>	current Steklov's director (Vinogradov => Bogolyubov)
>	hold the same anticommunistic-antisovetic opinion as

And antisemitic also. (I'm speaking of Vinogradov, not sure for Bogolubov.)
Also, I don't really think Bogolubov held anticommunistic opinions then.
(I'm sure now he does.:) Vinogradov _did_ hold them.

>	Shafarevich and backed him.

>>If yes, were all "barely tolerated" people in such positions?

>	Sakharov was.

Sakharov was immediately fired not only from managerial position,
but even from his institution, as soon as he went out of favor (end of
60-ies). After several years, as everybody knows, he was even sent to exile.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: vib@fns-nc1.fns.com (Victor Bur)
Subject: Re: _Anekdoty_
Organization: Fujitsu Network Switching
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 14:22:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.103634.10696@cs.nott.ac.uk> avyfdvg@unicorn.nott.ac.uk (David Gatenby) writes:

>2. Question in final year Philosophy exam at Prague University. 
>"Is the Soviet Union a friend or a brother?"
>Answer: "A brother, because you can choose your friends."
 

Russkiy  i chex rubyat ugol' v shaxte, i naxodyat zolotoy samorodok.
Russkiy govorit: my ego vmeste nashli, davay razdelim po-bratski.
Chex podumal i otvechaet: net, davay luchshe porovny.
From: sergei@upenn5.hep.upenn.edu (Sergei Borodin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: RE: Shafarevich
Date: 4 Sep 92 21:43:07 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania




  Lovely subject again. Crude antisemite has been expelled
  from the NAS by self assigned members (on the net, of course)
  You, guys, may shout, vote, but as Shafarevich said :
    "I did not apply for membership in the National Academy 
   (although I was pleased with the honor shown to me).  
   Therefore I consider that the question of my continued
   membership in it is the Academy's own problem." 
   Period.

 patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz) writes:

>About this letter of Shafarevich in  <95320@bu.edu> (correct?):
>I still can't understand if he is really antisemitic.

  Neither can I.  
  But here, on the net, this is a common knowledge which does not
  require any prove.  However, some people don't know.
  
>From the letter quoted above, I cannot tell whether this Shafarevich
>is a certifiably vile human being, 

   This is truely personal. I've seen "jerk", "bastard" and some
   other similar words applied to him. 
   I know that Shafarevich is a friend of Solzhenitsyn. You see,
   the latter is too famous to be called "jerk", but as we were
   taught ".. he didn't understand ..".
   
>or someone who has tried
>to express something in the wrong way which might have been
>acceptable had it been expressed in the right way.

  What is the "right way", anyway? 

>I am confused because last week a friend from Russia was reading
>Shafarevich's book and said there was nothing antisemitic in it.

  Me too. I read his famous "Russophobia" and (guess what?)
  didn't find anything antisemitic in it. 

> And this Russian friend is not Jewish, so probably
>he's not the best one to trust for that assessment, since antisemitism
>is not a direct personal threat to him.

  For the same reason my opinion is worthless too. But I would *really*
  appreciate *quotations* from Shafarevich's writings which prove his
  antisemitism. At least I will know what do people mean by that.

>-patricia@cco.caltech.edu

  S.B.
  Very thankfull to Dr. Darrell Hammer for the 
  Shafarevich's letter.
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Subject: Re: A Flaming Idea
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1992 13:19:13 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.11 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In  <1992Sep9.082431.9503@cco.caltech.edu>  patricia@cco.caltech.edu
(Patricia M. Schwarz) writes:
> >Why the hell is Gogol's sexual orientation important ?
>
> It's not, really, I was just curious...
> -patricia

Here is some more food for thought.

   o Lenin used "Baten'ka" to address his male friends. Note that he
     did not use "Mamen'ka"to address his female friends. Was he a gay ?
     Obviously.
   o Note tender relations between Gerasim and Mumu. Was it a case
     of bestiality ?- Beyond reasonable doubt.
   o Bazarov wanted to see a particular woman dead and naked (v
     anatomicheskom teatre). What a pervert !
   o I always wondered why Onegin rejected Tatianu even though she
     threw herself upon him. Silly me - now it comes very clear.

Oleg
From: patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz)
Subject: Re: The least nationalistic nation
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:23:10 GMT

>>I bet Kafka is much better understood by Communism and Nazism survivors
>>that by anybody else. To get grip on understanding the Soviet system
>>you need to start thinking in a Kafkian way.

>Kafka never lived under Communism or Nazism, but he did live under
>child abuse and wrote very eloquently about it in "The Trial,"

And by the way, anyone who wants to insult and belittle me for this
statement first should read kafka's Letters to his Father very
thoroughly.

Amazing how we have come full circle here. I started out being abused by
mentioning parallels between Stalinist repression and child abuse.

Now someone has pointed out that the most necessary book to read to
understand Soviet society is a book by a man who had even less experience
than I have had with Stalinism or Nazism, but is regarded by many
to have written a passionate denunciation of the emotional (and
very likely physical) abuse he suffered under his violent and
domineering father.

Art speaks for itself, as always.

Adieu,
patricia
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
From: ayr@gtech.com (Aleksey Y. Romanov)
Subject: Re: Cultures and Literature
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich RI
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:09:56 GMT

In article <Lq2wqB1w165w@halcyon.com> novost@halcyon.com writes:
>  1)  How many republics were in the former Soviet Union?
>  2)  Name 5 Russian Authors.
>  3)  What is the role of Lenin in Russian history (simply)?
>
One of the most shocking experiences in my first year in US. I was going
to play rugby here for a first time. We had pooled cars and on the way to
game had a little chat. One of the players told me that he is from
Argentina.  After that he asked do I know where is it. His question
sounded like it is quite usual for people to know nothing about Argentina.

But now I became a very accustom this situation and I guess It is quite
understandble. Just try to decide is it right time to buy a home or it
is wise to wait some itime until prices will reach bottom ? 
I guess you will care little about Argentina.





-- 
Aleksey Y. Romanov

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed are entirely my own and do not
necessary reflect those of my employer or anyone else
From: patricia@cco.caltech.edu (Patricia M. Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Master and Margaret
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 09:12:24 GMT

>>Or how can one read M&M without knowing Bulgakov' biography
>>or Russia reality in thirties?
>>Or without knowing history of France in XII(?) century,
>>"albigoitzy" (no dictionary at hands)?

>Great topic for the discussion!!!  Actually, let's talk about "albigoitzy".
>Probably you are reffering to the hypothesis, that Koroviev/Fagot was 'written'
>in some ways from the one of knights of "albigoytzi".

This is interesting. I never heard of this!
I have read some boigraphies of Bulgakov, and that plus his letters
and his wife's diaries give me some idea of reality in the 30's.

But where does the image of the witch some from? I can't see where
Bulgakov got the idea for Margarita's transformation. Of course pure
originality was my first guess. Is that right or is this from some
"good witch" tradition that I don't know about?

-patricia