HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rrw@philabs.philips.com (Roger White)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bullet & gasoline truck
Date: 10 Apr 92 23:21:05 GMT
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff Manor, NY.

In article <52962@mimsy.umd.edu> jvh@nature.berkeley.edu writes:
#
#Forgive me if this question has been asked, but I just got around
#to seeing "Thelma & Louise" and I just don't believe that a bullet
#from a handgun can cause a gasoline truck to explode.  It seems
#to me that the things must be thick enough to repel a handgun
#bullet or they'd be blowing up all the time.  Even were a bullet
#to puncture the tank, would it explode upon puncture?  I know in
#that case, gas would spill and another bullet could spark on something
#maybe, but on contact?  Does anyone know?
#
#Thank you
#
#Joan V
#

I have a video (the name of which escapes me at the moment) in which they fire
tracers into a gas tank about 1/3 full of gas.  You can seen the gas leaking
out of the tank and you can see vapors all around the tank - it never
explodes.  More movie B.S. I'm afraid.

In another scene, a fellow selling soft body armour, shoots himself
point-blank with a .44 mag - no problem and then shoots another fellow
point-blank with a rifle (I forget the caliber).  The shootee is standing on
one foot at the time and the impact doesn't even make him lose his balance.

Take care,

Rog
From: earlw@Apple.COM (Earl Wallace)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: removing primer
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:04:04 GMT
Organization: Dewey, Screwum & Howe, Inc.


In article <52933@mimsy.umd.edu> edsr!kjs@uunet.UU.NET (Kevin Sedota) writes:

# what is the safest way to remove a live primer from a case. I was using a Lee
# auto primer and one of the primers go side ways and was pressed against the 
# next primer in the tool. I didn't notice it until I had seated the primer.
#
# A friend suggested I put it in the gun and fire it. (no bullet) But I never
# remember to take them to the range. would it be safe to use the
# decaping/sizing die on it or would that set the thing off.
#

Wow!  What a good question!  I usually put the case with the primer in my gun
at HOME and fire it (with no powder or bullet).  I never though about it, but
that may be against the law because it's discharging a firearm within city
limits (I live in the Bay Area).  Maybe I should be firing these at the range
instead.  I would recommend that you do not try to use a decapping die or any
other object to push the primer out of it's seat.  You may set the primer off.
I did screwup once and decap a primer from a case in my RL550B but it didn't
go off.  I rather not try my luck again :-)
From: davidg@interop.com (David Gimpelevich)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm vs 40S&W - which to choose?
Date: 13 Apr 92 02:22:30 GMT
Organization: Interop Company, Mountian View, CA

In article <53072@mimsy.umd.edu> barry@uts.amdahl.com (Barry Needham) writes:
#[(.40D&W is) much better than a 9...]

I'd like to see your data.  Ross Seyfried (Guns & Ammo - sorry, I don't have theissue number) states that they are baout identical, and there is very little
actual shooting statistics to suggest otherwise.  He would rather have the extrarounds with a 9...
-- 

                                        David Gimpelevich
                                       	Interop Company
                                        davidg@interop.com
From: wwarf@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (wayne john warf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: US NAVY GETS RID OF M9'S
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:42:00 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <53087@mimsy.umd.edu> mlh2416@zeus.tamu.edu (HERRING, MICHAEL LEWIS) writes:
#
##From: tporczyk@novell.com (Tony Porczyk)
##Message-ID: <52281@mimsy.umd.edu>
#
##I just read in the latest Guns&Ammo Assault Rifles issue that
##apparantly due the flurry of problems with M9 during the Desert Storm
##operation the U.S. Navy and Marines have formally requested that the
#<Secretary of the Navy allow them to completely drop the use of M9
##Beretta.  Anyone has any information on the results of this request? 
#
##Tony
#
#
#does this mean that we as civilians would be abl to buy these, like we could 
#buy m1's?  (btw, does anyone know if the gov't still sells those?) or would
#they be destroyed?
#
M1 Garands are still sold by the U.S. Army Director of Civilian Marksmanship.
The probability of any surplus pistols being sold is about the same as
that of suplus full auto M16's being sold.

-- 
 *  WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu**I speak for me,OK?**sic semper tyrannis    *
 *   NRA LIFE* *NRA Certified Instructor* *Penna. R&PA* *Ind. SR&PA   *
 * Department of Decision & Information Systems, Indiana University   *
 * Bloomington, IN 47405 USA* *Pennsylvania CCW Lic.*Indiana CCW Lic. *
From: thi@mips2.ma30.bull.com (Saigon Smuggler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .38 & .357 (Was Re: Is a .22 a humane weapon? (No.))
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:13:31 GMT
Organization: Bull HN Information Systems Inc.

In article <52679@mimsy.umd.edu> dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk (Codesmiths) writes:
## Similarly, the .38 and .357 pistol rounds are the same diameter.
## (.356 inches, contrasting with 9mm and .380, which are both .354 inches.
#
#That much I knew, but can anyone tell me *why* .38 became known as
#that ?  Historically, which came first ? .357 or .38 ?

The .38 came first.  .357 Magnum was invented by S&W/Winchester just before
WWII and did not go into full production until after WWII.

-tt
From: gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re:  Advice on Polar Bear protection requested (no kidding!!!)
Date: 7 Apr 92 22:30:43 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University

In article <52591@mimsy.umd.edu> bae@auspex.com (Brian Ehrmantraut) writes:
##   (a) Is *ANY* handgun cartridge useful against polar bears?  (He's
##       thinking of a .454 Casull)

In the DBI book Hunting for Handgunners there are a numnber of articles
about bears of the very large grizzly and polar types being taken with
heavily loaded .44 Magnums and .454's. The loads can be handloaded easily
or purchased from Cor-Bon. These guns have been used on things even bigger
than bears with good success - Asian and African buffalo and lions and
elephants,... - and are available pretty much over the counter. 

#
##   (b) Are semi auto rifles appropriate, or does the cold weather 
##       interfere with reliability?
#	
#	The problem is most SA rifles don't come in sufficiently large calibers
#to make me happy.  I have heard of a fellow converting Garands into .375 H&H,
#which would do the jobs (if reliable)

The Browning BAR is available in .338 Win Mag which should do the job quite
handily. There is even an article about a fellow who had one converted to
.416 Taylor which duplicates the .411 KDF, .416 Rigby and .416 Reminton.
As above he can handload his own or purchase ammo from A-Square.

#	
##   (c) What calibers and gusn are recommended?
#
#	I'd go for a good quality bolt action in .375 H&H Magnum, and I'd make 
#sure I knew how to use it efficiently under stress - short-stroking is a no-no,
#and bullet placement is still crucial.

Actually I think you could start out a little lower on the cartridge spectrum
and go with a .338 Win Mag and still be quite safe. The reason for this round
is its availability on the standard length action, they are easier to come by.
If he is willing to go all the way to the long action, the .416 Reminton is a 
better choice than the .375. And then there is always the .458 but unfortu-
nately the best loads are not factory loaded at present - for bear that is.

Have your friend check out the Handloader's Digest No. 12. There is a very
excellent article by Ray Orodica and Andy Runyan about the .40's and bear
loads. Andy Runyan is a guide in Alaska and he and his crew have all switched
over to .411/.416's when guiding clients after coastal grizzlies.

#
#	I'd also make sure to study a copy of:
#
#	"Bear Attacks - Their Causes and Avoidance", Stephen Herrero, Nick
#Lyons Books, 1985, New York - ISBN 0-941130-82-7
#
#		Brian A. Ehrmantraut
#


geoff kotzar
From: wwarf@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (wayne john warf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SKS questions...
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:31:04 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <52855@mimsy.umd.edu> haddrell@mdd.comm.mot.com (Shane Haddrell) writes:
#
# 
#Howdy, 
#
#I have a few questions on the SKS rifles I see at the local
#gunshows/shops.  I have only handled them at gunshows and know little
#about them.  Could someone please supply me with more specifics?  As in:
#        What's the muzzle velocity? foot-pounds?  
#        How's the accuracy? (at 100 yards, if any) 

The muzzle velocity is 2300 fps with a muzzle energy of 1445 ft./lbs
for the standard 123g FMJ loading. You can get Chinese 7.62x39mm for
about 10 cents a round mail order. For accuracy, get the lead core
with the brown lacquer case.
# 
My usual shooting partner has used his SKS at our club Highpower
rifle matches, 50 shots @ 100 yds, standing, sitting and prone
positions. He's about as accurate with it as he is with my M1A, I
just wish I were as accurate with either as he is.

#I've heard there are several different versions/varieties.
#One is a Viet Nam era that has a screw-in barrel versus the 
#"current" press-in.  Is this really better?
# 
# 
Never heard this.


-- 
 *  WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu**I speak for me,OK?**sic semper tyrannis    *
 *   NRA LIFE* *NRA Certified Instructor* *Penna. R&PA* *Ind. SR&PA   *
 * Department of Decision & Information Systems, Indiana University   *
 * Bloomington, IN 47405 USA* *Pennsylvania CCW Lic.*Indiana CCW Lic. *
From: deh7g@newton.acc.Virginia.EDU (David E. Husk)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bullet & gasoline truck
Date: 13 Apr 92 02:22:29 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia


        Gasoline trucks are seperated into compartments and the fill
port on top of each compartment is vented so as to relieve pressure
during a fire.
        There is a famous incident in Ohio where a gasoline truck
is on fire with the flames shooting 20 feet or so into the air
from each vent.  A state trooper arrives, gets excited and fires
several rounds into the truck to "relieve" the pressure.  This
of course feeds gasoline to the fire.  The net result is no explosion
and no way for the fire department to put out the fire with water.
They just let it burn out.


    >>>>>>>    Freedom times security is a constant.   <<<<<<<


Husk@virginia.edu                       David Husk
Physics Bldg/UVA                        804 924 6799
McCormick Rd
Charlottesvile, Va 22901
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Scoring Targets
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:04:55 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Laboratory, APG, MD.


In article <52590@mimsy.umd.edu> jerry@gumby.Altos.COM (Jerry Gardner) writes:
#Whenever I read a magazine review of a new gun, one of the things mentioned
#is target group size, usually for 3 or 5 shot groups.
#How are these groups measured?  Let's say I've got a target with five holes
#in it.  How do I measure the group size?

Usually they give the diameter of the smallest circular disc that would
cover all the holes.

You should note that this is not a good measure of ANYthing.  A proper
dispersion measurement would require more shots, also weighting of the
shots, for example a standard error estimator.  Also the location of
the CENTER of the hole would be the primary datum.

A proper report of shot dispersion might read "horizontal spread 3 cm
+- 0.8 cm, vertical spread 4 cm +- 1.2 cm".  But simply "5-shot group
size 1.5 inches" is comparatively uninformative.
From: james@teal.csn.org (Jim Phillips)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Sights on a Beretta 92
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:30:29 GMT
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.

I AM NOT AN EXPERT AT AIMING A PISTOL.

A friend of mine has a Beretta 92F.  It's a fun gun but we
are having a bit of a problem.  The gun *seems* to shoot a 
low and to the left.  At 25 yds I'd say the results are 
about 12" low and about 6" left.  These are rough approximations
of the center of the groupings from both of us. We are 
shooting as slow and steady as we can using a rest.  
We are using factory reloads.

We can compensate for this by aiming high but this is 
undesirable as I normally like to *see* what I'm shooting at.  

We have considered these possible explainations...

1. We're just bad pistol shots.  That's certainly possible
   however, we are good enough to not experience the same
   problem with my Browning Buck Mark (standard).  Granted,
   there may be a big difference in aiming a 9mm and a .22
   that we are not aware of.

2. This is an intentional feature of the Beretta (or all
   pistols) for reasons that escape me.

3. This is an artifact of using factory reloads.  I believe
   we are using UMC ??? or something like that.

4. The sights are askew.  Since they are fixed sights how 
   could this happen?  How could they be corrected?

5. There is something wrong with the gun.  My friend is
   not the original owner.

Please let me know if you have any ideas on what the problem
could be.

Thanks in advance
james
From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bullet (in)stability
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:17:34 GMT
Organization: who knows

In article <53180@mimsy.umd.edu>, toby@milton.u.washington.edu (Toby Bradshaw) writes...
#Shooting for the first time at a 300 yard 10-shot BR match for
#group and score, I and others noticed that the 68gr Bruno BT
#bullets were tipped as they went through the target.  I had
#seven shots in 0.75 or so, and the other three opened the group
#up to 1.6 inches.  The flyers were tipped more than the shots
#that went into the group.  An experienced shooter told me that
#he uses flatbase bullets in his rifle to prevent this.  Question
#1: Why would a BT be less stable than a FB of equal proportions?

Are his bullets longer and/or heavier?

#will boosting the muzzle
#velocity a couple hundred fps keep it stabilized at 300?  

Would not increased velocity increase spin rate and therefore decrease
the nutation angle which is a measure of keyholing?
From: davidg@interop.com (David Gimpelevich)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bullet & gasoline truck
Date: 12 Apr 92 23:23:29 GMT
Organization: Interop Company, Mountian View, CA

In article <53044@mimsy.umd.edu> rtaraz@ascoli.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz) writes:
##>>>> On 10 Apr 92 23:21:05 GMT, rrw@philabs.philips.com (Roger White) said:
#rrw> In another scene, a fellow selling soft body armour, shoots
#rrw> himself point-blank with a .44 mag - no problem and then shoots
#rrw> another fellow point-blank with a rifle (I forget the caliber).
#rrw> The shootee is standing on one foot at the time and the impact
#rrw> doesn't even make him lose his balance.
#
#
#Now, lets see here, how can somebody get hit with a bullet from a
#rifle and not loose his balance?  I dont care how good the armour is,
#you do loose your balance! (or maybe I am mistaking, I never stopped a
#bullet with my body)  
#
#One more thing, how can a _soft_ body armour protect you from a .44 magnum?

A bullet, while it has tons of kinetic enrgey (mv2) has virtually no momentum
(mv).  It is the momentum of a car or locomotive that pushes you over.  A 
bullete can't do that.  It is the shock of a would that drops people hit
with a bullet.  Watch teh video - it is very informative.

It also _demonstrates_ that soft armor can stop a .44 Mag.

Also, the same video does show how a fuel truck explodes when hit by a bullet -
a .50 BMG!
-- 

                                        David Gimpelevich
                                       	Interop Company
                                        davidg@interop.com
From: smpod@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE:US NAVY GETS RID OF M9'S
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:33:43 GMT
Organization: who knows

mlh2416@zeus.tamu.edu (HERRING, MICHAEL LEWIS) writes...
# ...
#does this mean that we as civilians would be abl to buy these, like we could 
#buy m1's?  (btw, does anyone know if the gov't still sells those?) or would
#they be destroyed?

Yes you can buy M1s throught the DCM program.  But you should do it as soon as
possible since Congress is trying its best to close the program.  At one time
you could get surplus Colt 45s but Congress closed that program and I doubt
that you will get a P9, should it become surplus.
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Scoring Targets
Date: 7 Apr 92 22:30:37 GMT
Organization: Computing Center, North Carolina State University

In article <52677@mimsy.umd.edu> jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:
# ...
#Just for curiousity, is there some reason why groups with larger
#numbers of shots in them are usually bigger?  Is it just that the
#shooter gets tired? 

  Sampling (statistical) theory says that this will happen even if
the shooter doesn't get tired.  With the same probability distribution
of shots (whatever it is, although the bivariate normal is often
assumed) the chance of getting a "far away" shot is higher when you
look at (sample) more shots.

  Analogy - you're going to measure the difference in weight between
the heaviest and lightest potato you pull out of a sack of potatoes.
Mix up the potatoes in the sack and randomly choose two.  Do over and
over and record the differences in weights.  Then do it but now
randomly choose three and record the differences in weights between
the heaviest and the lightest.  Ditto with sample size four, five, ...
The average difference will tend to get larger as the sample size
gets larger.  If you can see why this happens, then apply the same
reasoning to the shot groups.

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock 21
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:56:04 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.

In article <53305@mimsy.umd.edu> sybok@m4-035-2.MIT.EDU (The Terminator) writes:
#
#The Springfield Armory 1911 is the greatest autoloading pistol ever created,
#and the 45ACP cartridge is the greatest load.  Not only is the stock SA1911 the
#base gun for professional shooters across the country, it also has the
#widest availability of parts and accessories.  The Glock looks like a toy gun
#made from cheap plastic, while the 1911's handsome appearance is legendary.

That's what I like: a calm, reasoned, objective assesment.









--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of making many books there is no end...  |  What's wrong with chasing 
                       -- Eccl. 12:12    |  nebulae till 3 am?  |-(
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From: spacelab@milton.u.washington.edu (Jessie Chang)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re:  Advice on Polar Bear protection requested (no kidding!!!)
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:06:22 GMT
Organization: SpaceLabs, Inc., Redmond, WA

##   (a) Is *ANY* handgun cartridge useful against polar bears?  (He's

      Try Desert Eagle .50 AE.  It has 1450lbs  muzzle energy and it only
      costs a dollar a foot lb of energy.

#	
##   (c) What calibers and gusn are recommended?
#
	I would recommend  the M1 Grand Tanker 30-'06. It has the standard 8 shot EnBloc clip, has a 18" barrel, weighs 7.5blbs, has been used extensively in the artic climates, and will function great with commercial ammo.   The '06 is a great round for hunting/stopping things with.  I carry this and a 12ga loaded with 000/slugs on our boat when we go up north... I know of serveral others who also carry the Tanker.  

	The only drawback is the muzzle flash...it will throw out one if your
lighting conditions are low.

	If your going through, via ground, Canada, your going to have a problem 
with the handgun but not with the Tanker...

----
-Scott West
From: eesnyder@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Eric E. Snyder)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Hell-Fire Report
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:20:32 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

Based on the favorable reports seen in this news group, I 
went ahead and shelled out the twenty-odd dollars for the 
"Hell-Fire Trigger Actuation System".   My unit arrived in
about four days after placing a credit card order from 
Crown Specialty.  

Looking at the device, I was pretty skeptical that it would 
ever work.  It is little more than a spring with a little 
mounting bracket that fits on the trigger guard of your rifle.

The first time I took it out, I mounted it on an AR15 and 
HK91.  I managed to get one ten-round burst out of 3x30 rounds
on the AR15.  It didn't seem to work on the HK at all.  Yesterday,
I took the AR15 out again with much better luck.  I could almost
make it fire full-auto on demand.  Very cool!  The cycle rate is 
amazingly high.  You can empty a 30 round magazine in two or 
three seconds-- pretty close to the actual M16 cycle rate.  

How does it work?  The key to getting the unit to function 
properly is in the way the gun is held.  Shooting from the hip,
the trigger finger should be the only thing touching the rear 
of the rifle.  Keeping the trigger finger still, the hand on 
the forestock now pulls the rifle forward, pulling the trigger.
The recoil of the rifle jerks the weapon back, allowing the 
trigger to reset due to the action of the 'trigger actuator' 
pushing forward.  All this time, the hand on the forestock is 
still pulling, and thus pulling the trigger once again.  

The problem with this of course is that one does not have a 
lot of control over the weapon when shooting in this fashion.  
If you really pay attention, fire can be confined to a few 
degrees.  According to the Hell-Fire manual, one can fire from
the shoulder and do a little better.  I have yet to master this,
although it may be possible with more practice.  I would guess
this inherent lack of accuracy is why the BATF gave its seal 
of approval.  

All and all, it is a nifty gadget.  Twenty bucks may sounds like a 
lot for what you get but you'll probably spend that in ammo the 
first time you go out.  

Enjoy! 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
TTGATTGCTAAACACTGGGCGGCGAATCAGGGTTGGGATCTGAACAAAGACGGTCAGATTCAGTTCGTACTGCTG
Eric E. Snyder                            
Department of MCD Biology              ...making feet for childrens' shoes.
University of Colorado, Boulder   
Boulder, Colorado 80309-0347
LeuIleAlaLysHisTrpAlaAlaAsnGlnGlyTrpAspLeuAsnLysAspGlyGlnIleGlnPheValLeuLeu
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From: webdw@mvutd.att.com (Bruce D Woods)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Advice on Polar Bear protection requested (no kidding!!!)
Date: 8 Apr 92 20:28:42 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <52749@mimsy.umd.edu> thi@mips2.ma30.bull.com (Saigon Smuggler) writes:
#In article <52724@mimsy.umd.edu> asbestos@nwu.edu (Michael A. Atkinson) writes:
##
##If you could carry fully-automatic, wouldn't a whole lot of something like
##9mm do the trick?  Can a polar bear can stand up to an accurate burst from a
##submachine gun?  (Full auto may not be practical for this person, but I'm
##curious.) 


For heavy, dangerous animals you need heavy bullets that are
propelled at a high enough speed to penetrate the animal.
eg 180 deer loads need not apply!  Typical bullets for the
purpose are 300 gr or more, hard cast/solid bullets, with
sufficient diameter to create a wound channel that stops
despite lack of expansion.  That's what works on the big ones.

BDW