From: 01saeid@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Re: Few remarks about discussion on Baha'i Faith.
Date: 27 Jul 92 19:01:30 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


Dear Behnam:

I am very much appreciated by your article. Now I feel that there is a mutual
way of understanding regarding our discussion.
As we both agreed by now the compilation of Qur'an took several years and
it was done by serious of memorization and writings which could have been
misplaced or exchanged but according to our view this was never took place
and we both agree the Qur'an is an Authentic book.

What I expect from you from now on is not blame me for choosing to believe in
a book that has been written only one hundred and thirty years ago and it was
signed and sealed by the writer of the book (Baha'u'llah, the blessed beauty,
the book was Agdas). This book never had to be memorized or compiled after
his admise and ther is only one version of book available and moreover nobody
is allowed to prescribe or describe the writings in that book.

This book (Agdas) does not contain any stories and it is only compiled from
the laws of the Bahai faith.

There is an enormous difference between the book of Agdas and Qur'an. The 
similarity between them is that they were both written in Arabic and both
are holy books. The book of Agdas is much shorter in volume and as I said
it only contains the laws of the Bahai faith.

As far as I am concerned Islam is a regional religion. It is not degined
for the world and obviously the concepts discussed in Qur'an is not a worldy
concepts. 1400 years ago there were hardly any communications between the
people of two region and hence no one could assume a worldly vision.

It was only four hundred years ago that it was proven that the earth is
a round planet and it is not a flat land. Concepts such as these have changed
the human desires in the past centuries and the need for a book which has taken
years to compile and it has been either memorized or written is vastly outdated.
I can not imagine any vision that the people of 1500 years ago can share with
the people of today and I challenge to define the world vision of the people
of 1500 years ago and the people of today. Today we are looking eliminating
the barriers in the space and breaking the limit of death. 1500 years ago we 
were perhaps looking at survival and the family values. 

The needs have changed and hence the desires ahve changed. We baha'is believe
that the current fast rate of advancement is only due to the appearance of
Baha'u'llah (the king of the kings). His holy spirit has changed the values
which the human lives were depended in the past centuries and as you are aware
the values and desires of life is rapidly changing. If you sincerely look at
the history of the Bahai faith you will realize that around the year 1884 (
the year Bab announced his mission) there has been many revolutions around
the world. The concept of Jahuva Witness (if I am spelling it correctly) was
born in that year in US. The concept of Ahmadieh (A branch of Islam) was 
established then. I personally believe that the link between the god's spirit
and the human being had been established and we were being showered by the 
spirituality of god and it is no wonder that some people felt the spirit and
by not founding the right person they assumed that they were the messangers
of God. 

Regarding the Ahadith, in the Bahai faith there is no (I repeat) no basis for
ahadith. No one can use any story to prove any point with in the Bahai faith.
This has already stopped the confusion that existed within Islam.

If you think you have an easy way of finding the truth about the Ahadith, please
excuse me for not following your path because I think I have found a much easier
way than yours and I have lived a much less confused life than yours.

===========================
I have to refer to your explanation about ahadith:
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
> The method I mentioned (isnad analysis + matn analysis) is the 
> usual way of evaluating ahadith.  It's the logical way of going
> about this business.  And that's what scholars do.
> For example, isnad-analysis means that you rate a hadith based
> on the nature and number of its isnads and based on the 
> credibility of the narrators.   And there are many ratings.  To
> name a few: mutawatir, sahih, hasan, maqtu' or munqati', mursal,
> da'if, qarib, etc.
> 
> However, I suspected that perhaps the premises of Mr. Hakim on Hadith
> were different.  So I offered to base our discussions 
> on Mr. Hakim's premises.  I did this for two reasons:
> 
> 1.  It won't  affect the outcome of the argument.
> 2.  It saves us time as we can perhaps avoid technical arguments
>     about hadith.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I still think it is a waste of time to deal with these. These either should
not have existed or it has been brought to existance by the Moslim Scholars
to take advantage of the time and place in order to implement the ideas of 
their own. Your explanation adds to my confusion as to why I have deal
differently with the word of god.

:::::::::::::::::::
Your comment again
:::::::::::::::::::: 
> On minor and technical legal issues, diversity of 
> opinion is to be expected.  However, on major issues there's no
> room for diversity.  An obvious example is that the Unity of God is 
> emphasized, so there's no room for polytheism.  Another simple example
> is the meaning of the phrase "yawm al-qiyama" (Day of Resurrection).  This
> phrase appears exactly 70 times in the Holy Qur'an.  There's also a whole
> Sourah just named al-qiyama which graphically describes the Day of 
> Resurrection.  What this terminology is all about is cannot be mistaken
> by any person of average mind who reads the Qur'an.  Of course, there are
> many other examples.
:::::::::::::::::::::

I don't think there world would allow diversity of opinion. The points
such as Day of Resurrection had already been mentioned by all the religions 
prior to Islam and it is only the minor points that makes the religion different
than the other. We Baha'is believe that the origion of all religions are the
same and it is only the laws and the descriptions that will change according
to the needs of the time of appearance of the religion. Moreover we believe
that we are in the period of progressive revelations in which we will be
thrived to the perfection by the appearnace of the manifestations of god.
The only thing that will change is the minor points. Nobody will change the
fact that god is one.

Now, which one is it, is the minor point all diverse or the major points.

I have nothing more to say.

Saeid.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian,talk.religion.misc