HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dtiberio@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio)
Subject: Re: Wild rumor, potential for massive sea change in Amiga world
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 23:45:45 GMT

In article <57465@cup.portal.com> TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko) writes:
>It WOULD be a big deal to lose the North American market. With apologizes
>to our European counterparts, I don't see much productivity or utility
>software coming from outside NA.
>
>If the NA market, so goes the productivity and utility stuff. Then how
>long will the Amiga hold out against game consoles?

	Not only for that reason, but simply because it would mean the
END of a market as it is. It is always better to have room for growth in
even the smallest markets, so that in the future there will be growth. For
example, many third world countries have a limited selection as far as
computers go. If CBM sold the A600 to third world countries, or places
such as Eastern Europe, then in five or ten years those same people would
be upgrading to more professional Amiga products.

	I would be very unhappy if CBM gives up in North America; those
big companies are too big to gain, and can only lose market share, and it
is the responsibility of the smaller ones to make big gains. The best way
for CBM to turn around the North American market is to sell Amigas at
extremely competitive prices along with lots of advertising. And if that
means selling only A600s, then that is fine for now. It is better than
nothing.

	I hear lots of people say things like CBM is going bankrupt, or
Atari is buying CBM, etc, or that CDI is the first of its kind and CDTV
doesn't exist, etc.  This is CBM's fault for not advertising. And why is
it that the price range for the Amiga has such a huge gap?

	A500 = $399
	A2000= $1600?
	A3000= $1900 - $2500

	Why is there such a large gap between the A500 and the A2000?
Why doesn't CBM release an $800 machine? The CDTV comes close, but the
keyboard and mouse are extra. CBM should have a professionally styled
Amiga at the $900 price range.


-- 
      //   David Tiberio  SUNY Stony Brook 2-3662  AMIGA  DDD-MEN   
     // Today is my 21st brithday, and I still have high insurance!
   \X/  Liverpool, New York	flames to suggestions@cbmvax.commodore.com
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:11916 comp.sys.amiga.misc:8121
From: moose@swamp.UUCP (Michael Dinn)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Voice your opinion to Commodore -- a free opportunity.
Date: 5 Apr 92 17:41:29 GMT
Organization: The Swamp (902) 463-0483  HST/V.32/V.42bis
Originator: dinn@ug.cs.dal.ca


If you'd like a chance to send something to Commodore, here it is.
This is a call for all the readers of Usenet to tell Commodore their
opinons, ideas, and suggestions, be they on a management or hard/software
level.

On my UUCP site, I have set up an account for this 'project'. 
All correspondence should be directed to either 

	commodore@swamp.UUCP
	       - or -
	uunet!dalcs!swamp!commodore

Here's what I propose to do.

Once I get a load of suggestions (I'd like ~100 at least and I know there's
more than that out there on the net) I'll take them into WordPerfect on my 
Amiga and make them look _official_, i.e. correct spelling, grammar, etc. 
I'll combine like articles, summarize lengthy drivelous ones, the whole
shebang. Then it goes off to a laser printer where I envelope it and send
it to Commodore. Presto -- all of Usenet's suggestions in a neat package.
I'll be including Usenet readership stats so C= can see how many people
they're dealing with (over 50,000 I believe). 

I will ask them for a reply which I can post to Usenet to tell everyone what
Commodore thinks of their ideas.

So if you like this idea -- make up a 1 to 2 paragraph suggestion for Commodore
(longer if you like) and mail it to  commodore@swamp.UUCP. If you don't like
it then too bad -- don't reply. :)

I expect at least 100 messages within the week. :)


--
 Michael Dinn, Sysop of the Moose's Swamp - Nova Scotia's largest Amiga BBS
      moose@swamp.UUCP * uunet!dalcs!swamp!moose * dinn@ug.cs.dal.ca
From: har@ux.acs.umn.edu (--SeebS--)
Subject: Re: Intel HW
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 10:34:34 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.075900.22091@sbcs.sunysb.edu> dtiberio@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
>In article <1992Apr11.060632.14773@ux.acs.umn.edu> har@ux.acs.umn.edu (--SeebS--) writes:
>>Perhaps Mr. Haynie can help us out here... What *is* the maximum airspeed
>>of an unladen A3000?
>	A3000 or A3000T?
>      //   David Tiberio  SUNY Stony Brook 2-3662  AMIGA  DDD-MEN   

Plain 3000. Obviously, the 3000T is a different beast.

Anyway, the 3000T is *clearly* not an aerodynamically sound creation.

-s
-- 
Peter Seebach, using my fiancee's acount. (Please use "SEEBS" in the subject
line, so we know who it's for.)  Polygamy: "There can be more than one."
I use an amiga because it works better than all the other machines I tried.
har@ux.acs.umn.edu (Love Incarnate)
From: rblewitt@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Richard Blewitt)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Beer (was Re: New Amigas Announced!!!!)
Date: 12 Apr 92 06:44:38 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Apr12.043932.28721@sbcs.sunysb.edu> dtiberio@csws7.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
>In article <871579l.703046914@aucs> 871579l@aucs.acadiau.ca (Todd Lowe) writes:
>>kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:
>>
>>>Gentlemen... please at least change the subject heading if you're going
>>>to discuss just beer all weekend long.   Especially when that current
>>>"New Amigas" header is bound to draw unsuspecting readers in :-)

I thought that was the idea of the original post.

>>Good idea.  Beer doesn't fit in this group, but since *SO MANY* other
>>subjects don't either, I'm not gonna complain. 

Yea we Amigans can waste bandwidth like nobody's buisness, but there
are some groups out there that are even worse.

>>As for my favorite it's a local Maritime Canadian Ale called Keith's.

My favorite is A&W.  That's right, root beer.  I can't stand things
that attack my nervous system.  Perhaps that's why I don't like Macs
or PC's :)

Rick
-- 
_____________________________________________________________________
_____________________________.sig____________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________
The generic .sig          Rick Blewitt     rblewitt@ucsd.edu
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Intel HW
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: Amiga GRn V1.29 4/10/92 (Beta) by Mike Schwartz
Date: 13 Apr 92 18:38:54 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <30274@cbmvax.commodore.com> andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes:
>In article <1992Apr11.103434.22982@ux.acs.umn.edu> har@ux.acs.umn.edu (--SeebS--) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr11.075900.22091@sbcs.sunysb.edu> dtiberio@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
>>>In article <1992Apr11.060632.14773@ux.acs.umn.edu> har@ux.acs.umn.edu (--SeebS--) writes:
>>>>Perhaps Mr. Haynie can help us out here... What *is* the maximum airspeed
>>>>of an unladen A3000?
>>>	A3000 or A3000T?
>>>      //   David Tiberio  SUNY Stony Brook 2-3662  AMIGA  DDD-MEN   
>>
>>Plain 3000. Obviously, the 3000T is a different beast.
>>
>>Anyway, the 3000T is *clearly* not an aerodynamically sound creation.
>
>True;  the A300T is not a creature of the air.  It has  enormous
>difficulty with the comparitively simple act of perching. :-)
>
>>Peter Seebach, using my fiancee's acount. (Please use "SEEBS" in the subject

The 3000T makes a better boat anchor, though.  Actually, put a big enough
hard disk for Unix and it is an even better boat anchor.

--
Author of Amiga GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle,
and Genesis Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024
From: Gerrit@laosinh.stgt.sub.org (Gerrit_Heitsch)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Considering switching to IBM
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1992 13:00:25 MET
 <1992Apr3.204240.1975@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <g4ljykc@lynx.unm.edu> <1992Apr4.182949.5339@ctr.columbia.edu>
 <jbickers.05m7@templar.actrix.gen.nz> <1992Apr5.224121.13332@ctr.columbia.edu>
Distribution: world 
Organization: Lao-Sinh project (private UUCP site)

In article <1992Apr5.224121.13332@ctr.columbia.edu>, Jerry Shekhel writes:

> It could be, but IBM will supposedly attempt to change that view by bundling
> OS/2 with its home systems (PS/1's) and doing heavy advertising.
I thought OS/2 2.0 will only work on a 386/486 ?
The PS/1 is a 80286-10 with 1 waitstate. Do you want to run OS/2 on
such a slow processor ?

Gerrit


|--------Gerrit Heitsch  Moenchweg 16  7038 Holzgerlingen  Germany---------|
|Logical adresses : UUCP : gerrit@laosinh.stgt.sub.org FIDO : (2:247/706.9)|
|-----------Fun starts at 68030, pain at 80x86, torture at 8080------------|
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:12715 comp.sys.amiga.games:6996 comp.sys.amiga.misc:8579 comp.sys.amiga.multimedia:833 comp.sys.amiga.graphics:3755 comp.sys.amiga.hardware:8976
From: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.games,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.multimedia,comp.sys.amiga.graphics,comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re:  Considering switching to IBM
Date: 17 Apr 92 06:25:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: orbit.7495
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>harp@netcom.com (Gregory O. Harp) writes:
>>
>>A comment was made that the programs I mentioned as examples of
>>V8086-mode-using software that won't work together (TD386 and EMM386)
>>were OS-level software.  I ask you: is this an excuse?  I say no...
>>
>
>Oh, it's not an excuse, I see.  OK.  Please go over to your Amiga, load two
>copies of the AmigaDOS kernel into memory, and see how well they coexist.  I
>could use your logic and say, "So much for the Amiga when it comes to
>multitasking."

Actually, believe it or not, you can.  This is precisely what happens when any
3000 without 2.04 roms boots up.  Or for that matter when developers are
working under a kickfile.  You have the ROM resident kernel, and then the
kernel that is loaded into memory.  Though it's true they don't run at the
same time I'm sure if someone had a reason to they could hack some OS/Switcher
into the interupt chains and run, say 1.3 and 2.0 simultaniously in some sort
of partioned Virtual Machine sort of process.

Come to think of it, couldn't you run AmigaDos under Unix in a similar fasion?
 (though it would necesarily reduce performance of both machines...
.--------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back |
| ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil        | from the dead, but do  |
| INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org                  | you really think he's  |
|-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?"        |
| Amiga programmer at large, employment options   | Lou Diamond Philips in |
| welcome, inquire within.                        | "The First Power".     |
`--------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dano@usl.edu (Dan Stephenson)
Subject: Re:ONCE AND FOR ALL: 040 and 486 and nap42487 knows nothing about CPUs.
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 22:13:08 GMT

lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi writes:

>In article <1992Apr13.013203.13300@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>, rjc@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray) writes:
>> 
>>   The only way to truly compare chips is by their instruction timings.
[Blah blah 486,040, compilers, benchmarks, chips, sys. design]


Can't we just get down to saying that the 80486 and 68040 are
approximately the same wrt generic 'speed' and go back to comparing the
_computers_  these CPUs are in?  Yammering about OS's, etc. is fine,
but this CPU-bitching is getting old, no?

-Dan
.

--
Daniel Anthony Stephenson, player of Praetorius, namer of The Solarium.
dano@srl01.cacs.usl.edu das9674@usl.edu
"I can be, what I want to, and all I need is to get my boogie
down"- Al Jarreau.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn)
Subject: Re: C= policy (Re: Apple problems "Home computer")
Organization: Qld Dept Primary Industries
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 13:17:07 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.103357.14282@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
>
>I agree.  Microsoft, IBM and Apple all use vapourware announcements
>to great effect.  Windows NT, PowerPC, Taligent, the list goes
>on.  The Windows NT vapourware is enough to keep a lot of people
>from going to OS/2 2.0.

Yes, it's been very effective, although the main effect I've seen is that the
average DOS user is now _very_ confused about the future.

>Maybe some Amiga vapourware would keep
>people from moving to clones.

Part of the problem seems to be that Commodore can't say what their plans are,
because they don't know themselves.  We keep hearing stories of killer Amigas
and chipsets which are actually developed, then C='s marketing department
decides not to release it.  So, even if we knew what was under development,
it wouldn't help us much.  :-(

>The performance gap seems to keep
>getting bigger, especially in the last few weeks here with the
>arrival of 50 MHz 486 clones priced about the same as the Amiga 3000.

Yeah, what's with all the low PC prices in the last month or so?  I've never
seen anything like it!  I can buy a 386/40 with SVGA, 4 megs, 40 MB HD, mouse,
Windows, DOS 5, and a 24-pin printer thrown in, for $2200 (US$1700) - I mean,
that's including a printer!  Then there's complete 486 systems for under $3000,
and even 286s, including SVGA monitors, for under $1000.

I don't want to think about how much I've paid for my A2000, in comparison.
I'd still rather buy an Amiga, even at these prices, but I'm considering buying
a 386 to play around with...


-- 

David Meiklejohn                  | Internet : davidme@qdpii.comp.qpdi.oz.au
Computer Systems Officer, QDPI    | Fax      : +61 70 92 3593
Mareeba, Australia                | Voice    : +61 70 92 1555
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  The Under $10K Unix Workstation!
Distribution: world
Date: 5 Apr 92 15:48:19 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <Paula_Lieberman.04ii@amicol.UUCP> Paula_Lieberman@amicol.UUCP (Paula Lieberman) writes:
>I remember a certain Sun 4/260 which used to crash of its own volition
>every two months [as opposed to suffer freeze-ups due to the user who liked
>to overload it with finding optimal communications paths routing in a
>dynamic systems and also do animated dispaly of the resulting data path
>flows...], at which time it was time to reboot the file server and the
>workstations hanging onto it.... nuisance was the term...  I also remember
>what the licensing fees for software and software maintenance came to.... a
>few licenses for SunPHIGS, Fortran, Lisp, SunOS and support/upgrages, and a
>3000UX starts looking cheap.....

Software prices for workstations and business machines have always been
high.  DEC is rediculous.  Not that many years ago, the price for a
BASIC interpreter for a Micro PDP-11, which DEC still manufactures, was
in the area of $1000.  A complete CAD package consisting of AutoCAD, a
486 with lots of memory, and a 19" 1240 x 1k monitor and high end SVGA
card will be over $20000.  A new Sun SPARC with add on shoe box and 
license fees will easily hit $10000.  Workstation prices look good in
magazine ads, but they are usually just the rock bottom hardware cost.

A 3000UX or a A2500 with a tape drive and Amiga UNIX is a fairly good
deal.  A fast 386 or 486 with SVR4 is also a good deal.

--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: 040 and 486_
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: Amiga GRn V1.29 4/10/92 (Beta) by Mike Schwartz
Date: 15 Apr 92 11:51:01 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <sctconno.703295378@kraken> sctconno@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Dave Connors) writes:
>Sorry to put something in slightly off the thread, but what is copy-back
>mode?
>

Copyback mode is where some Amiga fan posts the truth and Jerry Shnekel
selectively copies-back the article as he posts a bunch of hooey.

--
Author of Amiga GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle,
and Genesis Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: Guesses at the new chip set (was Re: MB Interview)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 16:16:22 GMT

In article <30194@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes:
>In article <mykes.2127@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>
>>Dave H. has posted more than once that the Chip BUS is 280ns accesses.
>>120ns RAM can handle 2x the speed at 140ns.  
>
>Actually, it's 280ns cycle time, not access time.  You generally find, with DRAM, that
>cycle time comes out to be around twice the access time.  Thus, you have 150ns or better
>for Chip RAM, 80ns for A3000 RAM (which has a 200ns cycle -- 100ns DRAM would work if
>you weren't concerned with Burst support).  To simply double the speed of the Chip bus,
>you'd probably need 60ns-70ns DRAM.  And more clock granularity -- maybe a 56MHz clock,
>to generate the edges necessary to make this work.  That kind of memory is certainly
>available, but it's hardly in the el-cheapo category just yet.

   I completely disagree.  Several months ago I was able to purchase 4M of
70nS static-column RAM (ZIPs) for an A3000 for $200.  This is not a bad price
at all, really, and the price has fallen since I purchased these chips.  The
price would be lower still if the chips used were page-mode chips, and not
the static-column variety.
 
   If your company is putting off introducing systems based on new chip sets
because the memories required are too expensive, then your company needs to
find a different excuse.

>Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests"
>   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh      BIX: hazy
>   "We can't be silent, because they might be giants" - The Might Be Giants

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
       <Insert your favorite one-liner here>
From: kholland@hydra.unm.edu (Kiernan Holland)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Considering switching to IBM
Date: 6 Apr 92 21:28:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.mcpjt!d
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Apr6.174756.17361@ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>har@ux.acs.umn.edu (--SeebS--) writes:
>>
>>Untrue. An '040 is three to five times faster in floating point. The
>>25 Mhz 040 is only slightly faster than a 33 Mhz 486 in *integer*.
>>
>
>Wrong, Peter.  Read the benchmarks that appeared here a while ago.  The
>25MHz 486 is slightly *faster* than the 25MHz 68040 in integer performance,
>but significantly slower in FP, although not 3-5 times.  Please look it
>up; maybe it'll make you stop posting bullsh*t with such arrogant conviction.
>
>>
>>Peter Seebach, using my fiancee's acount. (Please use "SEEBS" in the subject
>>
>--
>+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
>| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
>| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
>|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
>+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
>|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
>|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
>+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Now what happens if you add a wietek math coprocessor???
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: Lee_Robert_Willis@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: AppleEvents, how to they work?
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 07:38:42 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
  <jbickers.05mj@templar.actrix.gen.nz>
  <torrie.702873897@Xenon.Stanford.EDU>
  <jbickers.05sl@templar.actrix.gen.nz>

>>> ObligAdv:  How does AREXX know which applications support what
>>> messages?  For example, when you're writing a script, can you tell
>>> whether an application handles a particular message, and whether
>
>>    By reading the docs for that application. So if you replace one app.
>>    with another, and it uses different command names to achieve the same
>>    thing, you need to edit your scripts to suit.
>
>  Wouldn't it be better to standardise messages between applications?
>I think if you really want to get lots of people using/writing scripts
>(rather than just privileged programmers), the messages between apps
>should be as consistent as possible.
>  I read in another message that there is some standardisation in the
>style guide, but how far is this taken?  Are there standards
>for things like word processors (e.g. changeFont message), spreadsheets,
>spelling checkers etc?

For a (reasonable) standard to exist, the technology or product-line which
the standard adresses needs to be reasonably mature.

Is there anyone out there who thinks the Amiga word processor and
spreadsheet product lines are mature?

Lee      Lee_Robert_Willis@cup.portal.com
From: jejones@microware.com (James Jones)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: SCSI stuff
Date: 5 Apr 92 22:39:04 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Microware Systems Corp., Des Moines, Iowa

In article <root.019x@rkamiga.UUCP> root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
>My short list of current SCSI devices is:
>
>Hard disks
>Tape drives
>Magneto-optical drives
>Vaporware floppy drives
>WORM drives
>CD-ROM drives
>Terminal servers ( at least one for UNIX )

I would've sworn that I'd seen mentioned somewhere laser printers that
could be connected to SCSI.  I could be wrong, of course.

	James Jones
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Intel HW
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 15:27:59 GMT

gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>>
>>OK, if price is not an issue, then it's not fair to compare the DMI to the
>>SVGA, is it?
>
>How so?  They are both processor-driven graphics card that give 8-bit,
>high resolution graphics.
>

I thought the Resolver had a coprocessor on it.  Doesn't it?

>-- Gerald
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy