HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: garrod@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (David Garrod)
Newsgroups: alt.child-support
Subject: Re: Itemized accounting of child support
Date: 23 Jan 93 20:19:29 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1993Jan22.122709.7516@walter.cray.com>, jsw@cray.com (Jon S. Wood) writes:
> In article 6711@desire.wright.edu, sbishop@desire.wright.edu () writes:
.....
>  THere is no shared child support guideline in Mn. Statute 518.64 clearly
> says if you make X amount 'buddy', you pay Y amount. They don't give
> a diddly dam what SHE makes. 
> 
>  "just the facts sir, just the facts....."
> 
> Jon
> 
> 

Mn. Statute 518.64 is the modification of child support statute.
The Mn. Statute which relates to $support v. $income is 518.551 
(at least that`s where the table is)

In 518.551 Subd. 5, it also states  "....The court shall approve a
child support agreement of the parties if each party is represented
by independent counsel, unless the agreement is not in the interest
of justice.  ...."

It seems to me that this should provide for deviation from the 
guidelines in cases of shared custody.....of course, IF the agreement
can be reached.  Note, however, the use of the word "shall", it is
not "may".  Thus the onus is on the court to demonstrate injustice
if it chooses not to accept the agreement.

David Garrod
Thought for the day:
"You have to know all the facts before you jump to conclusions."
George Bush.
From: bouche2@server.uwindsor.ca (BOUCHER DAVID            )
Newsgroups: alt.child-support
Subject: Re: Something for nothing
Date: 25 Jan 1993 20:16:12 GMT
Organization: University of Windsor, Ontario, Canada

In article <1993Jan24.070751.6758@desire.wright.edu> sbishop@desire.wright.edu writes:

>There are some facts missing from this chart that might have bearing on 
>results.  First of all, what is the total percentage population that this
>was taken from, what are the comparable figures of amounts of children/
>parents in those ages groups, how many of these children are in a single
>parent home versus both parents living there, etc.  

How does any of these things affect the basic thrust of the statistics, i.e.,
that in ALL categories the number of female abusers exceeded the number of
males, and in all categories female abusers were treated better by the courts?
 
>     Unfortunately, many
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>states have legislation that mandates placing the abused/neglected child
>back with the family if at all possible.  And, in many areas the foster
>care system is so totally overloaded that there really is no place else
>to put them.

Both of these problems have the same root; the near-total INCOMPETENCE of
the state in determining whethern or not abuse has actually taken place.
The system is swamped with false accusations, and the so-called "mandate"
of returning the child (eventually) to the family is mainly a carrot to
keep accused parents "in line", and a safety valve to excuse the more
egregious screwups without actually admitting any error on the part of 
the agencies.  The solution is not to remove the few remaining checks on
the power of the CPS agencies and courts (the "unfortunate" legislation to
which you refer); it would be better to limit their power even further.

- db
Newsgroups: alt.child-support
Subject: Re: CHILD support
From: lisa@oneb2.almanac.bc.ca
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 16:17:53 PST
Distribution: na
Organization: Lebenty-Screech's Almanac, Nanaimo, B.C. CANADA

alicen@cs.washington.edu (Alicen Smith) writes:

> Perhaps you too will find this interesting:
> 
> Tuesday, January 26, 1992
> Seattle PI
> 
> Child support for one:  $6,000 a month
> 
> A state appeals court in Sanata Ana, Calif., upheld a lower court in
> December by granting Sheryle Ulyate an increase in child support
> payments from her ex-husband for their 15-year-old daughter.  The
> court ordered payments to increase from $2,000 to $6,000 a month.
> Ulyate said the girl's monthly expenses included $2,000 for clothing,
> $300 for jewelry, and $1,600 for entertainment, and she asked for
> $15,000 a month.  The ex-husband made a fortune selling mini-blinds.
> 
Disgusting.  Wonder what'll become of that girl if she ever has to live in
the real world?  Seems her mother doesn't, and you gotta wonder about that
judge...

Lisa

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lisa Lambeth                             lisa@oneb2.almanac.bc.ca

Founder, P.E.R.C.S. (Parents for Enforcing Regular Child Support)
Vancouver Island, B.C., Canada // Courtesy of the old coot hisse'f!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: alt.child-support
From: daw@cray.com (Dave Wright)
Subject: Re: Examples of Joint Custody Visitation Schedules
Distribution: usa
Date: 21 Jan 93 09:15:53 CST

>Rob Candau writes
>> 
>> I'm looking for some examples/suggestions for visitation  
>schedules... I understand the visitation will have to change 
>> when our son reaches school age to provide for one residence

Here's what I've seen on time sharing guidelines

Recommended frequency of contact between either parent and the children.

AGE                      CONTINUUM OF FREQUENCY OF CONTACT
                  PREFERABLE       ACCEPTABLE         THRESHHOLD OF HARM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
under 1 yr          2 days              7 days         More than 7 days
1-2 yrs             3 days             10 days         More than 10 days
3-5 yrs             1 week              3 weeks        More than 3 weeks
6-9 yrs             2 weeks             4 weeks        More than 4 weeks
10-13 yrs           4 weeks             6 weeks        More than 6 weeks
14 and up           6 weeks             9 weeks        More than 9 weeks


Contacts which are less frequent than suggested by the treshold of harm are
likely to result in developmental problems (Magid & Oborn, 1986)

Copyright - High Risk, Magid/McKelvey
Newsgroups: alt.child-support
From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
Subject: Re:    claiming fed tax exemption
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 02:44:11 GMT

<ICSCAB@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:
>If, when calculating which party is responsible for what percentage of the
>children's support (as one must do in Arizona to figure the amount of
>support to be paid), the father is responsible for 70% of the children's
>support, should he not be entitled to claim both children as exemptions
>on his tax return?  The current form from IRS says he has to plead with
>the ex to get her to give him a letter so he can claim them on his tax
>return. ...

> ... She does not want to give him any
>of the two exemptions because she does not want to lose any of the EIC
>credit on her return ($1350 credit, which would be decreased by $50 if
>she gives her ex one of the two exemptions).  If the father is able to
>claim one child, his tax liability will be decreased by $1000.

You hit the nail on the head: there's no political pressure
to institute fair tax laws that decrease the amount of taxes paid.

>Doesn't he legally have a right to claim at least one of the children?

I don't think so.  Should he?  Yes.  Tell it to Congress.  (Seriously.)

Don
-- 
beaver@cs.psu.edu                       Opinions from the PC-challenged
Newsgroups: alt.child-support
From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
Subject: Re: IMHO
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:58:15 GMT

sbishop@desire.wright.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan18.194604.6459@ll.mit.edu>, yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich) writes:
>> In article <1993Jan17.075332.6631@desire.wright.edu> sbishop@desire.wright.edu writes:
>>>
>>>Sorry, Bob, I've encountered so much hostility from Alan and The Beav, that
>>>I responded harsher than I'd planned.  This group should be more of an 
>>>information sharing group, not one where people get attacked when they 
>>>try to share their problems.  I've corresponded with several women who
>>>have dropped out of the group, they just don't want to even try to participate
>>>when posts like the ones Lisa has posted get so immediately attacked 
>>>and cause such negative response.  
>>>It's funny, if a 'woman' was to be so entirely negative about a man's problems,
>>>she is accused of male-bashing.  But when Lisa posts her problems with 
>>>collecting childsupport, she is immediately attacked, very nastily by
>>>both Alan and the Beav.

>>>Everything that they get involved with in this group is only viewed by
>>>them from their own personal viewpoint.  They make no effort to try to
>>>look at anyone else's.  
>>>Has anyone else noticed that the group is slowly becoming almost totally
>>>male?  Most women are afraid or reluctant to post since they get so
>>>heavily attacked.  
>>>Maybe this group needs to be renamed alt.child-support.male-only.


>> 	The problem is, exactly, the problem.  You won't get square
>> 	one here.  Most NCP fathers are not assholes like the one that
>> 	you describe.  But they have the right to be based on the harsh
>> 	system that exists.  Your story is just an artifact of what
>> 	*most* men are feeling, but not acting on.
>
>Not most, only the ones who are either in a bad situation or have made
>a bad situation worse by their hostility or neglect.

It seems you think that most women are oppressed and too afraid 
to speak out, while only a few men are oppressed and they are 
at fault for speaking out.


>> 	Women are not heavily attacked here; the system is.
>
>Gee, you mean all those nasty things you said about Lisa and me were
>really directed to the system?  Wow, I'm so relieved.

Actually, most of my comments about Lisa were directed toward
the system -- I object to a system that, in principle, motivates 
child support for luxuries.  And I object to systematic mistreatment 
of CP's and NCP's alike.  We've been through that, Sue.

I am certainly guilty of reacting to your flames in kind, Sue, 
but I have tried to hold my tongue despite your continued behavior
("jerks"/"bastards"/"The Beav" seem to be inevitable in your posts).

Now, how about some discussion, rather than name-calling, sarcasm, hostility?

Don
-- 
beaver@cs.psu.edu                       Opinions from the PC-challenged
From: steward@cup.portal.com (John Joseph Deltuvia)
Newsgroups: alt.child-support
Subject: Re: College not a right... except in NJ
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 20:30:54 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1993Jan21.171200.13092@walter.cray.com>


One of the cases in NJ in this matter involved an individual who sued
his parents (non-divorced) for LAW   SCHOOL tuition!!!

As he won his case, I guess he did OK in school...

The really interesting part about this case was that his father was a 
judge who sat on the Family Part and heard support and divorce cases...
Newsgroups: alt.child-support
From: erik@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Erik Lode)
Newsgroups: alt.child-support
Subject: Re: Indiana Welfare
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:33:35 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

garrod@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (David Garrod) writes:

> 1 mother, 1 child:		Monthly subsistence  $229
>				Food stamps	     $203
>				Total		$432

> 1 mother, 2 children		Monthly subsistence  $288
>				Food stamps	     $292
>				Total		$580

> 1 mother, 3 children		Monthly subsistence  $346
>				Food stamps	     $374
>				Total		$720

  Forgive me for asking a stupid question, but are there different rates
for "1 mother, 2 children" and "1 father, 2 children?"  (I don't know if
you were just using "mother" as an example parent, or if the welfare tsars
make a distinction.)
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: alt.child-support
Subject: Re: IMHO
Date: 21 Jan 93 19:28:13 EST
Distribution: usa
Organization:  Wright State University 

In article <1993Jan21.164138.20759@bmw.mayo.edu>, kaskubar@mayo.edu (Bruce Kaskubar) writes:
> sbishop@desire.wright.edu writes
>> In article <1993Jan18.194604.6459@ll.mit.edu>, yasu@ll.mit.edu  
> (Alan Yasutovich) writes:
>>> 
>>> 	It has always been mostly male.  And for good reason.
>>> 	90+% of NCP's are men.
>> 
>> So, the group SHOULD be alt.child-support.male-only?  Because 
>> 90+% of NCP's are men?  Yep, there you go again, saying that this 
>> is only a one sided problem.  I hate to keep bursting your
>> bubble, but there are *women* out there losing their homes,  
>> trying to go to school, pay child-care, pay for food, work
>> full-time, and struggling along on not quite enough
>> to live on because their ex is not paying child-support.  
>> 
> 
> Yikes, Sue.  Count to ten!  :-)
> 
> I'd say that Alan's observation regarding the gender representation  
> here is undeniable.  That could be due to most people thinking this  
> forum is for child support obligors (who we all know are usually  
> male, which is all Alan was trying to point out).  It could be that  
> men (any kind of men) have more access to this fantastic electronic  
> edifice than do women.  If so, this category would be expected to  
> fill with men's perspectives which, typically, are not that of  
> child support recipients.

Hmmm, I see so many women on the net in other groups, that I have some
problems with that.  In fact, at our university, there are more women
enrolled in CS classes than men.

> 
> On the other hand, Alan's statement seems to be restricted to  
> obligors and there is no reason that this category shouldn't  
> service both sides of child support: obligors and recipients.   

My point exactly.  Only problem, there are several women lurkers out
there that are really not posting at all, and they do have legitimate
concerns that they would like help with.  But when they see the type
of knee-jerk reaction that posts like Lisa's and mine receive, they
are ademant about *not* posting at all.  They are having a hard enough
time as it is, they just don't feel up to dealing with hostility and
abuse.

> There *is* inequity on both sides, depending on the specific case.   
> Those of us (like me) who have been poorly served by the existing  
> system should remember to step back and realize that not everyone  
> on the opposite side of child support is the same as their  
> individual nemesis.  Yet, some of them may be.  Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Yep, we gotta try to look at both sides.  I have made a big effort to
try to be as fair as possible, maybe I don't come across that way, but
I do feel sympathy for those fathers who are denied access to their
children.
I just wish that certain others would try to be fair also and not
go into tirades at any woman who posts.

> 
> Bruce Kaskubar
> kaskubar@mayo.edu

Sue
From: masticol@cadenza.rutgers.edu (Steve Masticola)
Newsgroups: alt.pub.havens-rest
Subject: ADMIN: Name the Complex and Colony Contest
Date: 24 Jan 93 03:16:45 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

Can anyone suggest some permanent names for the Complex (and the
Colony)? Some possibilities that should at least stimulate discussion
)8-] are:

- Closecall, Freehold Colony		(my favorite)

- New Zurich, New Switzerland Colony	(the planet's full of holes...)

- McAuliffe, Challenger Colony		(commemorative)

- Maximegalon, Malgrathea Colony	(HHGttG)

- Newer Haven, Newer England Colony	(just silliness)

Others welcome - please post 'em.

- Steve (masticol@cs.rutgers.edu).
Newsgroups: alt.pub.havens-rest
Subject: [F] Re: [MRrK] Fast Times on the Mommy Track
From: metlay@netcom.com (metlay)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 06:20:52 GMT
Organization: Atomic City
Summary: Maw and Flaw

In article <Jan.21.16.32.10.1993.22429@cadenza.rutgers.edu> masticol@cadenza.rutgers.edu (Steve Masticola) writes:
>[	MRrK was written by the following authors, in alphabetical order:
>
>	MaryMary	Steve Masticola (masticol@cs.rutgers.edu)
>	Red Rain	Mike Metlay (metlay@netcom.com)
>	Kyna		Strake (strake@dartmouth.edu)
>
>"Come on, little rafiki," Nona said softly, picking Kyna up and
>carrying her back to the bandstand. "You need a mommy, I gotcher mommy
>right here... hey, REE!"

"Yes?" Ree looked up from where she was tuning her bass.

"Need a favor," Nona grinned. "I been wanting to work on that
Moraz/Bruford piano-drum duet set and get some audience feedback,
remember?"

Ree raised a cold eyebrow. "Two minutes ago you wanted me to
cover for you. Now you want me off the stage. Are you ill, or
merely inconsiderate?"

Lita, listening from behind the drums, winced and waited for the
explosion. None came; instead, Nona looked aggrieved. "Come on,
girlfriend! You gotta help me! I just got stuck with...."

And she pulled Kyna out from behind her long skirt to show Ree.

Kyna looked up at the statuesque blonde woman with awe and fear.
She was the tallest, most beautiful woman Kyna had ever seen, 
but her face was cold, like a mannequin's... until she saw Kyna's
frightened eyes.

Ree almost seemed to melt like wax. Tears sprang to her eyes, and
she knelt and held open her arms to Kyna, who ran to them for a hug.

"Ohhhhh, little flower," Ree whispered in Kyna's ear. Then she
looked angrily up at Nona. "'Stuck', INDEED! Go play your piano,
Nona, if that is what you REALLY wish to do. *I* shall tend to...."
she frowned for a moment, then looked down at Kyna. "What is your
name, little blossom?"

"Kyna," Nona said softly. "Her name's Kyna. She can't talk."

Kyna looked uncertainly over her shoulder at Nona, who gave her
a conspiratorial wink and blew her a kiss before vaulting up
on the stage.

Kyna signed something hesitantly to Ree, whose eyes widened.
She began to sign back to the little girl, her movements fluid
and clear. Kyna laughed in delight, and soon the two were sitting
on the floor together, chatting away and never making a sound....

Lita leaned over to Nona and whispered, "Smooth move, querida.
But what happens when her papa wants her back?"

"One worry at a time, rafiki," Nona sighed, sitting down at the
keyboard and starting to play.

-- 
mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I have news for you. 'Thppht' spelled backwards is STILL 'thppht'."
Newsgroups: alt.pub.havens-rest
From: bus2@quads.uchicago.edu (cass roberts buscher)
Subject: (rest)
Reply-To: bus2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:45:40 GMT

Francis Island finally moved from the bar towards a side table.  There he began to watch the entrance intently.  After only a few minutes a small grossly dis-
figured manslid through the door.  He seemed to move sideways rather than forward.  He immediately saw Francis and began moving towards him.
   "So good you could finally come Mr. Island."
   The way his mouth moved seemed to defy any possibility of speach.
   "It's your time," Francis replied, without seeming to notice the mans comment.
   "I have something I wish for you to find and return, Mr. Island."
   Neither of their voice were very vailed, and their talk drifted across the room, evenas the man finally sat down across from Francis Island.
   "It is through a rift, otherwise I would do it myself," the man explained.
   "I doubt it," Francis replied looking straight at the man's unlevel eyes.
   The man coughed nervously and began to fidget with his hands.
   "You know how I price, let's hear about the job."
From: v124jw4y@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Benjamin R Pierce)
Newsgroups: alt.pub.havens-rest
Subject: Re: [Malachai] Things take a downturn
Summary: Red Rain to the Rescue?! They can't even SHOOT STRAIGHT!
Date: 23 Jan 93 18:12:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1993Jan22.063222.28479@netcom.com>, metlay@netcom.com (metlay) writes...


>The song ended abruptly. Lita jumped down from the stage, and yelled,
>"Doctor? Is there a Doctor in the house?" She looked around wildly.
>"CONYO! Someone have the number for Doc Whatshisname-- Foxx?!"
> 
>Nona said tightly, "Stay with the kid, Ree." Ree, holding Kyna in her
>arms, nodded mutely. Running for the doorway, Nona got her gun back
>from the guard-droid, and stopped at the threshold. She looked down
>at the small pistol, and said to no one in particular, "What the HELL
>am I DOING?!" 
> 
>She turned to face the bar in general. "Major league famous person 
>just took a slug outside the Rest. May be good for some reward money
>if we catch the perps." she paused, and looked a bit embarrassed.
>"I could use a little HELP here...."



Up at the bar, the strange being known as Floop turned away from his bucket of
salt water.  Excusing himself from his conversation, he moved across the room 
to the knot of people.  "Fighter I am not," he said in his odd, vaguely liquid
voice, "But some medicine I know.  Allow examination, please."  What happened 
next took most of the people watching aback, as the short humanoid seemed to 
melt, flowing across the wounded musician, probing and examining.  Without 
reforming, the blob spoke again.  "Serious this wound is.  Arteries struck.
To a hospital, he must go."  With that, the blob flowed under Malachai, shifting
form again.  Within seconds, Malachai rested on a gurney, which spoke in Floop's
voice:  "Someone must push, please."
Newsgroups: alt.pub.havens-rest
From: metlay@netcom.com (metlay)
Subject: [Kyna/Ree] Re: [Malachai] Things take a downturn
Summary: thank heaven for little girls
Organization: Atomic City
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 22:20:43 GMT

In article <C1A2Cp.L6F@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> strake@coos.dartmouth.edu (strake) writes:
>metlay@netcom.com (metlay) writes:
>
>>She turned to face the bar in general. "Major league famous person 
>>just took a slug outside the Rest. May be good for some reward money
>>if we catch the perps." she paused, and looked a bit embarrassed.
>>"I could use a little HELP here...."
>
>Kyna jumped up from Ree's lap and moved quickly to stand next to Nona.
>She turned back to the surprised Ree and signed "Tell her I can help."

Ree ran over to Kyna and gently gathered her up in her arms. "No," she
signed. "It's good of you to offer, but thre are lots of people here
who can help Nona, and I want you to stay here with me until your father
gets back."

-- 
mike metlay * atomic city * box 81175 pgh pa 15217-0675 * metlay@netcom.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I have news for you. 'Thppht' spelled backwards is STILL 'thppht'."
From: fogelinc@nmr1.Cyanamid.COM (Carl Fogelin)
Newsgroups: alt.pub.havens-rest
Subject: [ADMIN] Re: [F&P,2] Oops
Date: 25 Jan 1993 17:56:25 GMT
Organization: American Cyanamid Company
Distribution: world
Reply-To: fogelinc@nmr1.Cyanamid.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: nmr1.pt.cyanamid.com

ADMIN:  I must apologize to the readers of A.P.D-I for swiping the "Spitting
Cobra".  It was my intent that the pub in the Lower Warren would resemble the
"Spitting Cobra Tavern" from A.P.D-I, but be futurized.  It was never my intent
to copy it's name, but when you're writing a post in the "wee" hours, accidents
can happen.  Again, my apologies.

However, the name remains.  It's a good one.

---
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Carl Fogelin (fogelinc@cyanamid.com)     "All opinions are strictly mine" 

   Up the long ladder and down the short rope,
   To Hell with King Billy and God bless the Pope. -- traditional

Newsgroups: alt.pub.havens-rest