HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wa3wbu!john@uunet.UU.NET (John Gayman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: jamming in SIG P220
Date: 13 Dec 92 15:46:42 GMT
Organization: @ WA3WBU, Marysville, PA


In article <1992Dec11.173751.26785@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, hacker@coos.dartmouth.edu (Fred L. Hacker) writes:
# I recently tried a SIG P220 in .45 cal. at the range.  While it
# functioned perfectly with 230 gr. FMJ ammo when I tried Federal
# 185 gr. JHP ammo it jammed before I was through the first magazine.
# I thought the SIG's were supposed to be very good about feeding all
# types of ammunition.  Are the .45 SIG's more finicky about what you
# feed them or are they known to have a problem with this particular ammo
# or was this just an isolated problem with this particular gun?
# 

    Judging by the record of my P-220 I'd have to say your incident is
with your particular gun or it's magazines. My P-220 has fed everything
I've ever shot in it over the years.



-- John



-- 
John Gayman, WA3WBU 
UUCP: uunet!wa3wbu!john
Packet: WA3WBU @ WB3EAH
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Lead in brass confirmed, news at 11
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:34:57 GMT
Organization: Circle 'C' Shellfish Ranch, Shores of the Pacific, California

On the nightly news was the report that California was leaning on 
a bunch of faucette makers to clean up their act since all (37 or so)
makes of faucette put unacceptable lead levels into the drinking water
when water stands in the faucette.

What does this have to do with guns?  They went into some depth on
one of the news programs, and pointed out that it was the brass!
One of the manufacturers reps was even shown talking about how 
they had tried lots of other materials but nothing worked as well
as brass.

I don't know how much coverage this got out of California, but it was
a pretty big news item on the local news stations and on MacNiel Lehier.

I feel vindicated now about my earlier discovery that the lead test
kit found lead in new clean brass ...

So wash up after handling a lot of brass ... and don't suck on any rounds ;-)

(I guess brass coffee mugs are out too ...)



-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: kkirksey@world.std.com (Ken B Kirksey)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Feeding a Glock
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:20:10 GMT
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

# 1. My Glock 17, like most other 9mm firearms, is designed for use
# with 115-125 gr bullets at high velocity. Changing these parameters
# runs the risk of reduced functional reliability. There is supposed to
# be a warning to this effect WRT 147 gr bullets in the 1992 Olin law
# enforcement catalog - can anyone confirm?
 
 
I don't know about other 9mm firearms, but your Glock 17 will fire ANY 
current 9mm factory ammo without "risk fo reduced functional reliabilty."
At least that's what the person I talked to at Glock this afternoon
told me.  She told me specifically that this includes even +P+ 147-grain ammo.
 
Please check your facts before posting things like this.  It causes
unnecessary confusion.
 
                              Ken

-- 
+----------------------------+------------------------------------------------+
| Ken Kirksey                | "A man cannot be too careful in his choice     |
| kkirksey@world.std.com     |  of enemies."                                  |
| The World, Brookline, MA   |                - Oscar Wilde                   |
From: pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: dealing with a police officer
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:34:39 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Dec15.192534.6417@igor.tamri.com> donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) writes:
#Later, I was told that you're supposed to sit still with your hands
#visbly displayed.   I can see it both ways:  don't want to make a good
#cop's day stressful but I also resent it being assumed that I'm a violent
#criminal.  And I still think getting out of the car renders you less
#likely to really be dangerous!  And are you supposed to know the correct
#approach intuitively?

I'm a firm believer in the stay in your car with hands fully visible theory.
This is what all of the cops I've talked to have said (granted, I've only asked
a few about this).  This way, they know exactly where you are and what you're
doing.  If you get out of the car and start walking towards them, and they're
still in the car, you've put them at a serious tactical disadvantage.  They
don't like this.  Even if the cop is also out of his car, what it basically
comes down to (or what it *can* come down to) is a quick-draw; whoever can yank
the gun quicker gets to live.  (Someone said something about not being able to
hide a gun, or at least it being harder, when you're out and walking toward the
cop...bogus.  Anyone can have a firearm tucked into their pants without anyone
ever knowing until it was too late.)

You resent it being assumed that you're a violent criminal?  Maybe you should
try being a cop.  I mean, think about it - you deal with people all day who are
pissed off because you're giving them tickets or whatever, plus all the
violence directed toward you by perps.  Not just that, but you have to deal
with the negative image most people have of cops.  So, after dealing with these
criminals who wouldn't think twice about wasting you, you're supposed to 
assume that the person you've just pulled over is Mr. Honest Citizen who simply
made a mistake and wasn't paying attention to the speedometer?  Think of it
this way - if you pulled someone over, who you knew nothing about, would you
take the chance of getting wounded/killed?  Surely you'd think of your health,
and your family/friends/whatever, and not be so foolish...

Please, don't take this as me "flaming" you or getting on your case - just
think about what your average cop has to deal with day in and day out...

-- 
DVC,
  Paul
From: donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: A gun in the car
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:26:22 GMT
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA

In article <9212160345.AA01467@hp-vcd.vcd.hp.com> dmunroe@hpvclmun.vcd.hp.com
(Dave Munroe) writes:
##I've thought about this a lot recently especially with the upswing in car-
##jackings.  I don't know that having a firearm in the car is going to do you
##a damn bit of good anyway.  Where would you keep it?  How could you get to it
##before the perp shoots?
#
#I agree that prevention is the best course.  Still, for those that do carry
#a gun in their car, with the feeling that they might really need it, would
#you have it:
#
#	- out in the open on the passenger seat?
#	- on the passenger seat, under a coat?
#	- under the drivers seat?
#	- in the glovebox?
#	- other?

I'm just taking a shot in the dark here, since I have no firearms training
but I've also been thinking about this myself.

I would think that under the seat would be best because of the options you
listed, because then you don't have a gun sitting there for all to see (on
the seat) and you don't have it far away in the glove box (which would
take more time to access).  I would guess that the next best place might
be on the seat near you, under a coat.

Personally, out of all the physical possibilities, I would prefer to have
a snub-nosed .38 in an ankle holster.  That way, you have fast access from
your position in the driver's seat, it's not vulnerable to being found by
any old person you give a ride to and, if they succeed in carjacking you
(or the car is stolen while you're elsewhere), the thief won't get your
gun to use on his next victim.

I'll be interested in seeing what readers of this group with training
think of my ideas.  Of course, this being California, none of those
options are available to me.  Legally, at least and I'm not scared enough
YET to risk a weapons misdemeanor...

   don
From: mlh6@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael L. Haynes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: .38 = .357   ???
Date: 13 Dec 92 15:46:40 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)


Ok, 
	I just inherited my Grandfathers .38 special and was out
picking up some ammo.  The guy in the shop tried to convince me
that I can shoot my friends .357 loads.  I've got a couple of 
problems with that. 
	1) .38 does not equal .357
Is there some kind of weird history so in this case it does?
	2) I'm a little afraid that something as hot as a .357 mag
		load would sing taps for my little .38
Assuming they fit, is this the case.  

I've since then heard of firing .38 in .357 so something up.  Any 
wisdom would be appreciated..

	Mike

[MODERATOR: NO! I think you should find a new shop, and congrats on having
enough safety acumen to stop and think/check before proceeding.  First, a
legit .357 case should not chamber in a .38, so in theory you would be unable
to even try this.  But the way you phrase this above, it is possible that you
have a friend would would be willing to handload a .357 charge in a .38 case.
This would be disasterous!!  Others on the net can fill you in on the history
of why this is true, and the relationship between the cases in more detail, 
e.g. in general you can safely shoot .38 loads in a .357 (and many people do
as a cost effective way to practice with their .357).]
From: martin@dvorak.amd.com (Martin Schuessler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Price for COLT Gold CUP
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:33:06 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

I don't have any info on what the dealer's cost is for a new (blue) Gold Cup.
Anyone with an FFL and a supply of mail order catalogs: What's the going
rate for a Gold Cup ??? I might be in the market for one, and need some
bargaining leverage.

Martin
From: reb@amc.com (Bob Brunjes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Match, Wheel, Flint Locks
Date: 16 Dec 92 03:09:06 GMT
Organization: Applied Microsystems, Redmond, WA

In article <Bz6n7t.LJo@news.cso.uiuc.edu> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:
#Does anyone know what the difference between these
#types of actions?
#
#Jus' curious...
#
When the trigger on a matchlock is pulled, the lock stuffs a piece of 
burning rope (called slowmatch) into the priming powder at the gun's
touch hole, igniting the powder and firing the gun.  If you don't happen
to have a piece of burning rope in your burning-rope-holder, you're
out of luck.

A wheel lock gun operates on the cigarette-lighter principle.  You
wind up the gun (honest!) with a key, and when the trigger is pulled
the (hardened) wheel rotates against a flint in a holder, which directs
a shower of sparks into the priming powder, which fires the gun as in
the previous example.

The latest of these designs, the flintlock, has a hammer which holds
the flint, a priming pan at the touch hole, and a combination priming-
pan-cover and flint-striker called a frizzen.  When you pull the 
trigger on this guy, the flint strikes the frizzen, simultaneously
uncovering the priming pan and directing a shower of sparks into it.
If the priming powder ignites, but the charge in the barrel does not,
you do not have a shot; you just have a "flash in the pan."

In between the wheel lock and the flintlock, there was a type of
lock called a snaphaunce, which was similar to a flintlock, but
was not as clever about covering the priming pan.

Hope this helps.

Bob Brunjes		Applied Microsystems Corp
			Redmond, WA
			reb@amc.com
From: optimg!rgreen@uunet.UU.NET (Randy Green)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm reloading question
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:26:48 GMT
Organization: OptImage Interactive Services, Des Moines, IA


  My favorite powder for 9mm is Winchester 231.  It burns fairly
cleanly and seems to give good accuracy and consistent velocity.  I've
also used Unique, which is very dirty, Blue Dot, which seems too slow,
at least for the moderate loads I was using, Bullseye, which is OK and
Accurate Arms #7, which is also OK.

  As to differences between 9mm and .357, there seems to be a wider
variation in case dimensions between different brands/headstamps in
9mm.  I recommend sorting by headstamp, if you're not already doing
that.  The small case volume limits the use of slow powders, since you
can't get enough in the case to do the job.  Blue Dot is marginal, as
I mentioned above.  The up side of this is that it's harder to
accidentally double charge a case, since you'll wind up with a lap
full of powder if you try.  Also, the short 9mm case means that a
small change in bullet seating depth results in a larger change in
internal case capacity relative to a longer case, like a .357.  This
in turn will affect pressure.  Because of this, you should carefully
check cartridge overall length and watch for pressure signs if you're
loading anywhere near max loads.  I don't mean to say that 9mm is
difficult to load or to discourage you, I'm just passing along some
experiences.


Randall Green                      rgreen@optimage.com
OptImage Interactive Services      uunet!optimg!rgreen
1501 50th Street, Suite 100        Phone (515) 225-7000
West Des Moines IA 50265           FAX   (515) 225-0252
From: pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M1911 operation
Date: 19 Dec 92 00:24:23 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)

In article <9212171146.aa06373@claudius.pica.army.mil> erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:
#
#So to satisfy my curiosity more than anything else, how do you drop the
#hammer on a loaded chamber with one hand with an M1911? Or can't it be
#done? I realize that this is not a common requirement, but I'm just
#curious. Thanks in advance.

Well, you don't usually want to do this, as it's pretty unsafe, but...

On my 1911, which has a Wilson Beavertail Grip Safety, you can actually work
the safety by pushing down on the tang with your thumb (in the middle, by the
first joint), while using the tip of your thumb to hold the hammer.  This of
course disengages the safety, letting you drop the hammer (while holding it
of course!) without a proper grip.

-- 
DVC,
  Paul
From: reb@amc.com (Bob Brunjes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Remington 40-XB Questions
Date: 19 Dec 92 15:20:25 GMT
Organization: Applied Microsystems, Redmond, WA

In article <BzB8CB.Er8@fc.hp.com> scot@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Scot Heath) writes:
#Edward Godwin (edward@locutus.dell.com) wrote:
#: 
#: I have decided to purchase a Remington 40-XB.  I want it in a 30 cal chambering.
#
#STUFF DELETED.
#
#: Now, I realize how versatile .30-06 is.  Since .300 WinMag is the same bullet
#: size, it should be almost as versatile (especially with duplex loads).  Plus
#                                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^
#                                                          What is this?
This sounds like a handloading technique that the original .454 Casull
Magnum used, when it was still in a stock .45 Colt case, although
the Casull loads I saw were triplex loads.  The technique involves
a small quantity of a relatively fast-burning powder over the primer,
separated from a larger quantity of slower-burning powder by some
sort of combustible disc/diaphragm.  For a triplex load, yet another
layer of slower-yet powder would be involved.

Typically these loads were used to extract the maximum energy from
a load, but involved some _very_ tricky pressure/time curves.  
Multiplex loads walk a very thin line between gaining high power
and losing the ability to count to ten on your fingers, at least a 
thinner line than _I_ am comfortable with.


Bob Brunjes		Applied Microsystems Corp
			Redmond, WA
			reb@amc.com
From: callison@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Lead and Brass in Mug (was: Lead in brass confirmed, news at 11)
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:19:38 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <1992Dec16.113041.4610@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
<stuff about lead in brass in faucets deleted>

#(I guess brass coffee mugs are out too ...)

Speaking of....has anybody else out there seen the Remington mug o' .22s?
(I don't think it's really called that :-). It's a coffee mug full of
Remington .22lr (in a plastic bag...), and there's a painting on one side,
with a toast to hunting dogs on the other. It also seems like there's
the Remington logo on it, but that may have been the plastic packaging.
I didn't ask the price; I was on my way out to put my new Hogue grips
on my SIG--they're _WONDERFUL_, but that's another post. :-)
It'd probably make a good Christmas gift for a hunter you know.

				James

James P. Callison       Microcomputer Coordinator        OU Law Library 
Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu
	constellation!biglaw!callison@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
	Your self esteem is enhanced by remaining an ignoramus?
	Please! Let's call it "informationally impaired."
		--Hobbes and Calvin, "Calvin and Hobbes"
From: cccbbs!bill.preuss@uceng.uc.EDU (Bill Preuss)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RECOIL REDUCTION
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:33:19 GMT
Organization: Cincinnati Computer Connection BBS - Cincinnati, OH - 513-752-8248

I have had several requests for more detailed information on how I
drilled holes in my S&W 686 to reduce recoil.  The initial info came
from the Sept/Oct issue of American Handgunner although the article did
not mention hole size or spacing.

I hope this will be clear enough:
Six holes drilled straight down through the top of the 6" barrel.  I
used carbide tipped drills, a drill press with a vice to hold the pistol
and pushed a patch down the bbl to prevent drilling fluid from entering
the cylinder.  Starting 1.2" from the frame and spaced .4 on centers
hole 1 is a #31 drill, hole 2 is a #14 drill, holes 3, 4, 5 are #10
drill and hole 6 is a #1 drill.  Be very careful not to hit the bottom
of the barrel when drilling.  Next I counter bored (drilled) each hole
to form a "step".  When you look at this it is really a rocket engine in
reverse with the thrust being directed downward.  Hole 1 is a #11 drill,
hole 2 is a #14, holes 3,4,5 are 1/4" drill and hole 6 is 5/16" drill.
Drill these hole about 1/2 way down to form the "step".  Ideally the
holes should be conical to be most efficient.  Use a wire brush to get
rid of burrs.  A couple of .357 jacketed fired will do the rest.  I have
shot SWC lead bullets with no problems.  Velocity loss is about 12%, but
the recoil reduction is very much reduced.
Bill Preuss
                                                                                
[MODERATOR:  Shortly after the first post, Bill also said ....]

Update to previous message - I messed up in my notes.  The counter bored
holes should be as follows: hole 1 is a #11 drill, holes 2,3,4 are 1/4"
drill, hole 5 is 17/64" drill and hole 6 is 5/16".  Sorry.
Bill
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: case specifications
Date: 21 Dec 92 03:23:46 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <9212140615.AA04194@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com> davep@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com (David Post) writes:
# ...
#Aren't there any specs on case dimensions from SAAMI or somewhere else?
# 
#Not one of these sources give a tolerance on case dimensions.  Only _Pet
#Loads_ even suggests that there is both a minimum and a maximum OAL or 
#variations on other dimensions.  
#
#Elsewhere, other dimensions simply have no tolerance at all.  For example, a
#drawing on the 9mm parabellum case will show the mouth at nominal 0.380, no
#tolerance.  From this, you cannot even tell whether 0.380 is before or after
#a taper crimp.

  Some time ago I saw an ad for a book of the SAAMI specs.  My foggy
memory is that it came from one of the major reloading supplies
manufacturers (such as RCBS or Lyman or ...???) and was a large
notebook.  Also that it was expensive enough that I lost all
interest in buying a copy (which, as my long suffering wife will
attest does indicate something.)

--henry schaffer
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Weapons Choice
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:20:36 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1992Dec9.005449.5450@cbnews.cb.att.com> lvc@cbvox1.att.com (Lawrence V Cipriani) writes:
#Two students at the Chapman Academny Pistol Course II I attended in fall
#of '91 work for the CIA, they had SIG-226s.  They were not spooks so they
#could identify themselves; their jobs were in "law enforcement" whatever
#that means for CIA.

All federal agencies and departments have general law enforcement 
responsibilities for their own buildings/lands. So the CIA has to 
provide its own police for internal matters (I suspect very little,
petty theif and parking violations among employees.) What really
supprised me (and how I found out about this) was the USDA cop's
speed trap on thier Beltsville,MD land...

                                                Frank Crary
                                                CU Boulder
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Wyoming Arms
Date: 12 Dec 92 22:50:48 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

sean@cae.wisc.edu (Sean Rutledge) writes:

#Does anyone have experience with guns from Wyoming Arms.  I have seen
#close-outs on these guns in 10mm, .40, and .45 on 1911 frames for $229.
#Are they junk, worth what you pay for, or a good deal at this price.

They look and feel like the crummiest junk you can get your
hands on, but I've never owned one.

Who would want to?
From: kemasa@ghost.hac.com (Kemasa)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: FMJ (was Re: What about these Helwans???)
Date: 12 Dec 92 17:16:17 GMT
Organization: Natural Order Nature Experiments (N.O.N.E.)


In article <1992Dec10.224340.15598@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au> ghm@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller) writes:
->asbestos@nwu.edu (Michael A. Atkinson) writes:
->#steffen@stud.cs.uit.no (Steffen Baeroe) writes:
->##Why is it not allowed to use jacketed bullets on your local range?
->##I was under the impression that jacketed bullets gave a better 
->##protection against lead-poisoning?
->...
->Steffen's post hasn't arrived here yet (something very strange about
->traffic from the US) but the answer is very simple.  Penetration.
->Jacketed bullets are (considered by the Committee to be) more likely 
->to damage the range fittings and possibly penetrate the baffling
->around the range.  Since the area around the range is open to the
->public, we're very concerned about the possibility of injury to 
->people outside the range.

All the ranges I have been to have allowed FMJ, but they don't allow
partial jackets. I think the reason is that the partial jackets tend
to fragment more and therefore some of the bullet might go back
to the shooters.

Do these ranges that you talk about allow only lead bullets with
no jackets at all? How does that affect shooting semi-autos which
prefer jacketed bullets?
-- 



						 Kemasa.

Insanity is the best defense.

Sierra Club Leader	NRA Life Member		Pro-freedom	Pro-choice

e-mail address: kemasa@ghost.hac.com