HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ARBOGASTW@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu (Warren Arbogast)
Subject: Re: What the world needs now is an AMERICAN TV CONTRACT.
Organization: Darden Center, University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 19:12:25 GMT

In article <allan.703120112@kitscoty> allan@cs.UAlberta.CA (Allan Sullivan) writes:
>91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (gut feelings...) writes:


>You are under the assumption that what is preventing the NHL from getting
>a long term contract is because of the fighting in the sport, and that
>once fighting is removed it will become popular.

As an advocate of the league controlling fighting, I contend that if the NHL 
treated fighting like other sports do (ejecting players when it gets out of 
hand and eliminating the impression that the league condones "goons" and 
their "honor codes"), the NHL would have a CHANCE to get an AMERICAN TV 
contract that would provide the league the dollars both players and owners 
see being made in other sports.

But it doesn't stop there.  The NHL does a woeful job of marketing it's game 
and it's stars.  It needs to control fighting and eliminate the perception 
that it not only tolerates but encourages fighting AND market itself and 
it's stars.

Fine, don't change the game because fans in hockey cities in Canada and the 
US like it the way it is.  But don't strike for higher salaries when wages 
have gone up so dramatically the past two years and fight over the bus fair 
made off of hockey cards.  Sure, the players are right about owning their 
faces AND there is money to be made, but it would be a lot bigger pile if 
the league and the players marketed itself.  And fighting does nothing to 
help their cause.

I've heard plenty of arguments to leave the game alone because people like 
it the way it is. This is usually followed by arguments that Ziegler and the 
owners are shortsighted money hounds who should change their game. This 
doesn't make sense. Aren't fans who don't want a change being a little 
shortsighted?

Warren

Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Kiss the playoffs goodbye
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:26:21 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <1992Apr10.155844.23565@ccu.umanitoba.ca> umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Daryl Turner) writes:
>So now we're down to picking nits.  What's the big deal?  The owners agree to
>give up the money AND put it in writing, and it's not good enough for the
>players?  Who really cares if it's a sub-license, or whatever, as long as
>they get the money?  

If the owners retain the rights to do what they like with the players'
likenesses, and sub-license the rights for trading cards to the players,
then the players get money *only* for the use of their pictures on trading
cards, and not from any other use of their pictures, like on buttons,
T-shirts, etc.  If the players own the rights to their own likenesses, then
they would get this money.

That's the big deal.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: psycho@brtpa25.bnr.ca (Paul Jezioranski)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:10:54 GMT
Reply-To: psycho@brtpa25.bnr.ca (Paul Jezioranski)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Apr14.003842.29542@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>,
ash@sumex-aim.stanford.edu (David Ash) writes:
> Well, everything seems to be back to normal in the NHL:  the Leafs were
> eliminated from playoff contention last night.  If the NHL is in financial
> difficulty, I wonder if some of this can be attributed to the Leafs sorry
> state over the last many years.  Naturally I'd come to this conclusion being
> a Leafs fan :-) but seriously the core of support for hockey is in Canada
> and Ontario is Canada's largest province, so if Ontario's representative
> in the NHL is a perennially lacklustre entry, the NHL is going to lose one-
> third of its potential core of fans.
> 

	The Leafs would not be the only hockey team in Ontario if it weren't
for the Leafs and Sabres continually blocking attempts for Hamilton to land a
franchise. They have a beautiful facility in Copps Coliseum and defninitely 
have the fan support.
 
	Speaking of another Ontario team, rumours are flying around that 
Ottawa's franchise is in jeopardy and that one NHL insider has stated that 
"the puck will never be dropped in Ottawa". I recently drove by what someone
told me was the site for the Palladium. It looked like it would make better
cow-grazing land than a stadium site; there wasn't a single bulldozer mark
or any sign of concrete and steel.

	Paul.
From: phhill@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu (ROBERT HILL)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Sherri's Spewing (WAS: Re: Another Lindros)
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:12:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Apr9.163037.12222
Reply-To: phhill@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: The unofficial LSU news node
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-4559]: sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

In article <1992Apr6.032223.4376@descartes.waterloo.edu>, 
cadesjar@descartes.waterloo.edu (Curtis Desjardins) writes...
>In article <1992Apr1.173746.28305@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com 
>(Sherri Nichols) writes:
>>In article <1992Mar31.012501.18359@cirrus.com> mitch@cirrus.com 
>>(Mitch Wright) writes:
>>>make more in 1 year than I'll probably ever make in my
>>>whole career -- and they whine about how little they earn.  What ever
>>>happened to playing for the love of a sport?
> 
>This is what I'd like to know (not just hockey, but baseball and football
>too...basketball already has salary caps so it's not as rampnat there)

    The days of playing for the love of the sport (if such days ever 
existed) went away a long time ago. Sure, kids start out playing these
sports because they enjoy it, but by the time they are playing in the 
big leagues, its also a job.
    Also, what makes you think that things are any different for 
basketball players. The average salary in the NBA is over $1 million. 
That's as high as MLB, over twice as high as the NFL and about 3 times
the NHL average.
    By the same token, you should also recognize that the main goal of
a team owner is not to put together a championship team, but to make 
money. This is why, even with completely unrestricted free agency, all
of the best players will never be collected on one (or a few) team. If 
a team owner is filling his building, has fans watching on TV and just
finished winning a Stanley Cup, what incentive is there for him to go
out and sign Lindros, or whoever the next superstar is likely to be. He's
not going to make any more money from tickets or TV revenues, and he 
doesn't need him to keep his team competetive (which is probably all he 
needs to do to keep the revenues coming in). The only thing that happens
is that his payroll goes up, so he makes less money. So why would he do
it? He simply won't be willing to pay this new superstar as much as some
other owner who needs him to put fans in the seats and make his TV 
contract more lucrative.

>>I don't know; do you do your job for the love of it, or do you expect to
>>get paid a competitive salary?  
> 
>I don't know about you but I do it because I love my work. Being a
>teacher, I'd better love it cause the pay sucks! If I wanted money, I 
>wouldn't be teaching. Period.

    Don't complain too loudly. My sister is a teacher in Ottawa, so I know
something about the pay scales for teachers in Ontario, and the teachers' 
pay scale here in Louisiana was recently published . I'd guess you're making 
almost twice the salary of a teacher with similar qualifications down here.

Bob
From: chin@sask.usask.ca (Glenn Chin)
Subject: Re: Greedy Athletes
Organization: University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 21:58:13 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.130714.12076@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
> Once again:  have the hockey owners opened
> their books to demonstrate this alleged loss-making?

The NHLPA, after examining the books of franchises in Detroit, Philadelphia,
Quebec, and Washington, expects the league to make $24 million this season. 
The owners say they will lose $9 million.

> As mentioned earlier, the value of a hockey franchise has gone up from
> $1 million to $50 million in a very short time.

But a real estate investor is unlikely to share any capital appreciation with
the people whom s/he hired to maintain the property.  This is not to say
players don't deserve some of the gains.

> A New York Times magazine article on the guy who owns the Los Angeles Kings
> said that they were losing $2 million a year before Gretzky came (they were
> selling less than half of their tickets), but after The Trade, and paying
> Wayne a $3 million/year salary, the Kings were showing a $5 million/year
> profit.

According to Wayne, the Kings are now at the break even mark.

> Now, who are the fans paying money to see?  Wayne, or Jerry Buss?  So
> why does the owner get twice as much as Wayne?

So investors who buy shares in, say, AT&T should not make more than
AT&T employees, since the investors don't directly contribute to the products?

I'm not disputing Wayne's worth to the Kings; he's a truly exceptional case.


Glenn
From: rs7f+@andrew.cmu.edu (Richard K. Shehady)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Sherri's Spewing (WAS: Re: Another Lindros)
Date: 13 Apr 92 03:31:11 GMT
	<1992Apr5.185751.11234@Princeton.EDU>
Distribution: na
Organization: Sophomore, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

>Look, it is true that the average IQ of athletes accepted to many
>colleges is significantly below the average.  You can look at their
>grades, SAT scores, or anything you want and you will see a pattern.  I
>don't mean to suggest that our educational system isn't the best.  I
>am convinced that it is.  If it were not, we wouldn't have nearly so
>many foreign students coming here and taking their educations back to
>their homelands.  That doesn't eliminate the one aspect about the
>influence of athletics on the system, whether you like that part or not.

I don't know if anyelse answered this yet, But I just had to reply to
this.

American elementary and high schools stink. Period.  You don't see very 
many foreigners coming here to learn until college level.  It is
true, our universities are amoung the best in the world, but how many
atheletes take advanced classes in these colleges?  

I don't mean to turn this into n.rec.education, but it is a fact.  Another
thing is you see a lot of American students who have loads of trouble 
their first few semesters of college because they were so pitifully
unprepared by their high schools.

And now back to the regularly scheduled hockey discussions....

GO PENS!!!!!!!!

Rick Shehady - who predicts that Rick Tocchet will score 130 points
while on Lemieux's line next year.......
rs7f+@andrew.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: S1.JON@isumvs.iastate.edu (Jon Wells)
Subject: Junior A Nationals
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 16:23:57 GMT


Here are the scores from the Junior A National Tournament in Omaha:


Thursday's Games

Des Moines 5              Indianapolis 3
Detroit Compuware 4       Omaha 3
Dubuque 7                 Detroit Junior Red Wings 3


Friday's Games

Noon - Dubuque vs. Indianapolis
3:30 - Des Moines vs. Detroit Compuware
7:00 - Omaha vs. Detroit Junior Red Wings


Saturday's Games

3:30 - Semifinal
7:00 - Semifinal


Sunday's Game

2:00 - Championship



Des Moines..............................1 2 2 -- 5
Indianapolis............................0 3 0 -- 3
    First Period - 1. Des Moines, Reimann (Mikesch, Rud)(pp), 14:02.
 Penalties - Clouston, D.M., slashing, 3:01; Henricksen, Ind.,
holding, 7:04; McCaslin, Ind., roughing, 7:21; Adams, D.M.,
roughing, 7:21; Martin, Ind., roughing, 8:34; Clouston, D.M.,
holding, 10:50; Olofson, Ind., interference, 12:47; Lewis, Ind.,
tripping, 13:24; Guay, D.M., high sticking, 18:23; Adams, D.M.,
roughing, 19:54; Mullin, Ind., delay of game (served by Cary),
19:54.
    Second Period - 1. Indianapolis, Whidden (Olofson, Tansy), 5:37;
2. Des Moines, Carney (Rud, Mikesch)(pp), 10:28; 2. Indianapolis,
Carey (Martin), 11:02; 3. Des Moines, Adams (Mikesch)(sh), 15:20; 3.
Indianapolis, Milles (McCaslin, Hodges), 15:58.  Penalties - Hodges,
Ind., tripping, :17; Ford, D.M., roughing, 2:36; Peterson, D.M.,
roughing, 5:37; Lewis, Ind., holding, 9:48; Williams, D.M.,
roughing, 11:23; Henricksen, Ind., roughing, 11:23; Rud, D.M., high
sticking, 14:27; Bruininks, D.M., misconduct, 15:58; Ford, D.M.,
delay of game, 19:21; Thede, Ind., delay of game, 19:21.
    Third Period - 4. Des Moines, Bruininks (Clouston, Reimann),
13:07; 5. Des Moines, Adams (Echternach)(en), 19:49.  Penalties -
Hansen, Ind., roughing, :36; Ford, D.M., hooking, 7:56; Mehalic,
Ind., slashing, 7:56; Schneider, Ind., hooking, 15:03; Sass, D.M.,
delay of game (served by Amundson), 17:37.
                       SHOTS ON GOAL
Des Moines................................13-23-15--51
Indianapolis...............................13-19-7--39
    Power play opportunities - Des Moines 2-9; Indianapolis 1-7.
    Goaltenders - Des Moines:  Sass (39 shots, 36 saves).
Indianapolis:  Mullin (51-46).  A - 410.


Dubuque 7, Detroit Junior Red Wings 3
    Dubuque, which had just four goals in the first five periods it
played in the tournament, got four in the third period.


Detroit Compuware 4, Omaha 3
    Detroit Compuware scored two toals in the last 22 seconds of the
first period and hung on for the victory.  Compuware and Des Moines,
the tournament's remaining unbeaten teams, play today at 3:30 pm.


That's all for now!


--Jon
From: ARBOGASTW@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu (Warren Arbogast)
Subject: Re: Strike and the Media
Keywords: fans, wc
Organization: Darden Center, University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1992 19:00:36 GMT

In article <1992Apr3.165435.8206@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>In article <ARBOGASTW.36@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu> ARBOGASTW@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu (Warren Arbogast) writes:
>>
>>Poile was interviewed all over the place. He predicted doom as he has for 
>>the past several days.  According to Poile, if it isn't settled in a few 
>>days, then we're into next season with this thing
>>

>Abe Pollin is making big money...he owns the Cap Center, has the
>Bullets, and the Capitals, gets all the concesssion and parking
>revenue (there is no public transit to the Cap Centre...everyone
>has to drive)...and he pays mostly miserly wages to mostly 
>no-name players.  

(Actually, Caps fans can now go around the Centre (as if you're approaching 
from Annapolis) and park for free on the circle closest to the gravel field 
parking lot.  You'll find it easier to leave the arena from here AND it is 
less of a walk than from some spots in the gravel parking lot and main 
parking lot)

>Unfortunately...if he thought like Bruce McNall, he could be>
making mega-money.

How? Other than by selling more merchandise around North America? The Caps 
draw well and are on cable and over the air TV 65 games a year.  I don't 
see how Pollin could be making mega-money with the Caps a la McNall.

>The Capitals are not one of the teams in the NHL in danger of>going broke...
although their bottom line is obscured because>much of the concession and 
parking revenue is directed to>other companies Pollin owns.

>Gerald

ALL of the money from parking and concessions (including Caps and 
NHL merchandise sold at games) goes to other companies Pollin owns.  The 
Caps, as a company, may be in danger of going broke, but Uncle Abe will be 
there with the bucks that should be part of the Caps numbers.  The fact is, 
the Caps are doing well on and off the ice. (at least before the strike).
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: ARBOGASTW@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu (Warren Arbogast)
Subject: Re: NHL playoff
Organization: Darden Center, University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 23:26:20 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.054841.24990@unixg.ubc.ca> twong@civil.ubc.ca (Thomas Wong) writes:
>In article <PTeViB3w164w@cellar.org> darling@cellar.org (Thomas Darling) writes:
>>X68305@BARILVM.BITNET writes:
>>
>>>    I am a hockey fan from Israel. There isn'tmuch hockey here, nor
>>> anyone give it attention in sport papers etc. All info i gather is from
>>> cables TV. (about 2 games per week, with a brief overview)
>>>    I understand that the playoff is soon to begin and i even don't know
>>> who plays against who , or whos the playoff system works (like NBA? like NFL?
>>> any information will be appreciate.
>> 
>>This could very well be the saddest thing I've ever heard.  Should we tell
>>him, and ruin his day, or just make up results as we go along?
>>
>Sorry, he who's from Israel, but you just missed it. The Stanley Cup
>final's final game was last weekend. It came down to Vancouver Canucks
>vs New York Rangers. Last Sunday was the 7th game of the best of 7
>games final series. They went into the last game 3 games a piece.
>It was scoreless right to double overtime. But within the double
>overtime period, Pavel Bure finally had a break away and squeezed
>it in right between the pads. Vancouver won 4 games to 3 in a 1 to
>0 double overtime final game and took the Stanley Cup home. Pavel
>Bure was of course the MVP (most valuable player).

>Thomas.

>Disclaimer: NOT! :)

Thomas forgot to mention that "Gartner...shoots wide" was heard throughout 
the game.

Warren
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: nelson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Mike Nelson)
Subject: Re: Athletes intell. (WAS:Sherri's Spewing (WAS: Re: Another Lindros))
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 15:40:18 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.195706.5400@cirrus.com> mitch@cirrus.com (Mitch Wright) writes:
>/* fafuria@der.Princeton.EDU (Frederick A. Furia) writes: */
>
>>Look, it is true that the average IQ of athletes accepted to many
>>colleges is significantly below the average.  You can look at their
>>grades, SAT scores, or anything you want and you will see a pattern.  I
>>don't mean to suggest that our educational system isn't the best.  I
>>am convinced that it is.  If it were not, we wouldn't have nearly so
>>many foreign students coming here and taking their educations back to
>>their homelands.  That doesn't eliminate the one aspect about the
>>influence of athletics on the system, whether you like that part or not.
>>
>I'd like to add that these athletic departments also generate quite a bit
>of income for the University as a whole.  There would be a few less
>academic scholarships if it were not for that money.  It's a catch 22 of
>sorts.
>
>   ~mitch

I would suggest that elite althletes on average (including hockey players)
have a higher level of intelligence. Co-ordination, perception and 
other abilities that make elite althetes go hand in hand with a well
functioning brain. College athletes think very well; they just think
mostly about sports.

Just a thought. Not a deep one. Owww this hurts to much!
How about those Canucks! Ahh, That's better.
8-)

Mike N.
From: tiok_jk@tac.fi (Juha Koivisto)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Women's World Championships schedule
Date: 14 Apr 92 09:56:00 GMT
Organization: City of Tampere

In article <1992Apr13.094617.1086@tac.fi>, tiok_jk@tac.fi (Juha Koivisto) writes:
> 
> Here is the schedule for the games:
> 
> 1992 Women's Ice Hockey World Championships in Tampere, Finland
> 
> Group A:  Canada, Sweden, Denmark, China
> Group B:  USA, Finland, Norway, Switzerland
> 
> Apr 24,  15.00   A3 - B4
>          18.30   B3 - A4

The times in Friday's games has been changed because 
men's World Championships teams Finland and Russia (CIS ?)
will play here in Tampere on April 24th at 18.00 (6 PM).

The new schedule for Friday is:

Apr 24,  14.30   A3 - B4
         15.00   B3 - A4

-- 
Juha Koivisto   *  Department of Information Technology
tiok_jk@tac.fi  *  City of Tampere, Finland
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: zalewk@rpi.edu (Kenny Zalewski)
Subject: Re: More on the screwing of the Badgers...
Organization: Information Technology Services at Rensselaer, Troy, NY
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 18:22:07 GMT

In article <4y6ty7@rpi.edu> billoj@aix.rpi.edu (Jeremy Louis Billones) writes:
>What you "so glibly refer to" as "screwed by the refs" is a team fouling
>the other team when they happened to be short handed.  You foul the
>other guy, your team plays one man less - that's the rules.  The reason
>it doesn't happen is because usually, most teams don't commit cheap
>fouls when they're shorthanded.  Wisconsin did.
>
>I saw the game.  Wisconsin *DID* commit the penalties, so the penalties
>were called.  They were not "screwed" by the refs - they screwed themselves.

Thank you Jeremy!!!  And the replays _also_ indicated that Tim's calls were
_indeed_ penalties.  I can't believe people have taken this argument so far,
when they are absolutely wrong.  Five other referees that I know (including
two ECAC referees) have either seen the game first-hand, or watched the
game tape, and all agree that the game was well-officiated.  My tone is
a bit "edgy" because I've just gotten sick of hearing complaints about the
officiating.  I'm glad there are a few people out there who recognize what
_really_ happened out there ( or maybe it's just RPI camaraderie :-) ).
            -- kennyz

-- 
Kenny Zalewski -- Information Technology Services at Rensselaer
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, 83 Albright Court, Troy, NY, 12180
zalewk@rpi.edu | Kenny_Zalewski@mts.rpi.edu | USERGANY@RPITSMTS.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: kwfrackl@lily04.waterloo.edu (SCOOP-meister)
Subject: Re: I'd like to know - Help me, please!
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 16:01:53 GMT

>In the March 24th Mario Lemieux scored his 1000th NHL point.
>How many player are there in NHL who has scored 1000 points
>before Lemioux?
>
Dave Taylor, Wayne G. , Gordie Howe, Michel Goulet, Dale Hawerchuk, to name
a few....

>What is longest Stanley Cup game ever played?
>
My guess is that is was the Division semi-finals (Patrick) a few years
ago between the Washington Capitals and the New York Islanders.  Pat Lafontaine
(the turncoat) scored in the third period of overtime at about 2:30 AM EST.

>Is there any palyers in NHL who have made more points than
>others in one season and they have done this twice playing
>in different teams?

Wayne G. with the Oilers and the Kings?

>
>I think there is two coaches who have more than 700 wins in
>their NHL career. Who are they?

Scotty Bowman (Montreal, Pittsburg), and Al Arbour (NYI's)
>
>What is the biggest win for ever in the ice-hockey world 
>championship tournaments?
>
Team Canada defeated Switzerland I believe, 48 - 0.  The players were at
the other end of the ice signing autographs while the play was going on.


>Who were chosen to the all-star team in junior wolrd 
>championship tournament in Leningrand 1974?
>
I'll guess Bryan Trotier, Krutov, Larionov, Makarov, Lafleur.       


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