From: dan@ingres.com (May X B w/U this Xmas)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Biblical Contradictions
Date: 24 Dec 92 07:29:02 GMT
Organization: Ingres, an ASK Company, Alameda CA 94501

thughes@ug.cs.dal.ca (Tracy L. Hughes) writes:
: 
:  Daniel J. Dick writes :
: >As for the mocker, these apparent contradictions give him every opportunity
: >to grab at cheap shots left and right.  Watch the mocker exhault his own
: >intelligence and lift himself above all christians in his own eyes prancing
: >around like the king of all intelligence only to be cast down as a supreme
: >fool! 
: 
: I think this is slightly offensive.

Awhile back, at a christian conference, while eating with a missionary, my
wife responded similarly to something the missionary said that she thought
might be offensive to me.  I'll never forget what he said.  He looked straight
into my eyes and asked me if I would like him to repeat what he just said.

: You see, not every Christian believes the Bible is the word-for-word
: revelation of God.  This does not label them as mockers nor indicate that
: they are bound for hell.  These contradictions are of legitimate concern
: to them and they quote them to reveal to other Christians 
: the basis of their type of faith (very often to avoid persecution, as funny
: as that sounds).  They are merely approaching God in a different way than
: the accepted norm.  After all, even the proposition that the Bible is God's
: word to us is merely a proposition of our fallible human reasoning, so
: who has the right to fault their reasoning?
: 

Not so.  To assert this chips away at the foundations defining christianity
and removes the elements that distinguish between that which is and is not
christian.  While this may appear to be an act of love and kindness, it is
only an act to remove a word and an element of communication and undermine
the basic meaning of the word "christian".

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the old meaning of the word "christian"
stemmed from a rediculing word making fun of followers of Christ by calling
them "little Christs".  Christ stood by the Word of God.  He quoted Old
Testament scripture and although He frequently went against the misreadings
and common misconceptions of the meaning and purpose of scripture, He never
chipped away at the reliability and integrity of the Word of God.

: And as for the legitimate mockers (and there are many) ... perhaps their
: mockery should be examined more closely.

So many are competing for attention and examination.  Let's give God His share
of the attention first.  Why is it that people can stand up and deny God's
Word and God's stated consequences of doing so, lead others astray, and then
when God's Word comes to pass, they continue to lead others astray by coming
up with some alternate explanation?  Why run to the ends of the earth looking
for someone else to whom to give our attention while God's Word never fails?

: It is a good learning
: experience, and is often interesting, to see your own beliefs through
: someone else's eyes.  And so many of these mockers are really good people
: on the whole, who have been driven from Christianity BECAUSE of these
: contradictions (and other things in the Bible that they cannot agree
: with for, surprisingly enough, moral reasons). 

People constantly try to set their moral standards above God's.  Isn't it
better to learn from God instead of criticizing the King of the Universe for
His lack of our knowledge?  This reminds me of the way a teenager finds his
parents growing in intelligence as he grows up and becomes more like them.
At first, his parents are a couple of restrictive idiots.  Later, they appear
almost divine in wisdom.  The more we know about God, the smarter God seems
to us.  When a person casts doubt on the Word of God, it is very unlikely
they know much of anything at all about God and surely do not know Him in
person.  I'm sorry if this sounds harsh...

: I don't think they are trying to "exhault their own
: intelligence" ... they are simply trying to explain the truth as they
: see it to Christians, as much as many Christians try to explain the
: truth as they see it to them.  It is actually interesting to note how
: many of these people who do not profess to be Christian because of the
: rest of the Bible still have a profound respect for Christ and, if not
: Christ as he is often presented to them through the media of the Church,
: at least for his teachings.
: 
: -Tracy

I believe I understand what you mean here.  But you need to understand that
the teachings of Christ are really more firm than people often represent them.
People don't mind quoting verses that say "don't judge" or "love your
neighbor", but I doubt they have the same respect for the verses where Jesus
says "I am the way the truth and the light" and "nobody comes to the Father
but by me."

You see, the world's christianity has the cart before the horse--the dog
wagging the tail--Jesus, Lord, God created in the image of man and his desires
rather than man created in the image of God.

The so-called christianity of the world consists of silly denominations
divided strongly over various forms of idol worship--denominations that
excuse gossip while condemning gays, that excuse gays while condemning lies,
that excuse lies while condemning adultery, etc.--denominations that are bent
on condemning others, justifying selves, undermining the meaning of God and
christianity, and cheapening religion altogether.  Its honesty is false.

Its holiness is false in that it condemns others' pet sins while honoring or
excusing its own.  Its humility is false.  One might be found calling
themselves unattractive, weak, or unintelligent insulting the creation of God
while using his insults to excuse his so-called inability to do what supposed
to do.

The christianity of the Bible is the christianity
	that would rather love God for who He is
		than conveniently redefine Him
	that believes what God says
		rather than chipping away at His Word
	a christianity that wants to trust, pray, understand, love, cherish,
		obey, and sit at the feet of Jesus and learn--
		not at the feet of some foolish and arrogant guru
			who exhaults his beliefs high above or equal to God
			and calls christians arrogant for believing God instead
	a christianity that leads us and our families
		into heaven and not hell!
	a christianity that will endure being called hateful
		in return for lovingly warning people their house is on fire.
	a christianity that will tell the painful truth 
		as tactfully as possible
		without losing its edge.
	a christianity not full of liars, gossips, cheats, perverts,
		cowards, and bitter, self-righteous hypocrites.
	a christianity of forgiveness, humility, love,
		and submission to the will of God.
	a christianity that admits and confessing wrongdoings
		while giving God the credit for having created us wonderfully.
	a christianity of loving, attentive communication with God
		instead of cheap, long drawn out prayers and token prayers.