HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Posting guidelines
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:54:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: progress.1992Apr15.155401.13986
Organization: Progress Software Corp.

upload@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:

>The idea is this:  no one will be permitted to write declarative sentences 
>about any art unless they have personally trained in it for at least a
>month.


NOW JUST A FRIGGIN MINUTE!  You are asking people who spend most of their
waking lives at keyboards to speak from a postion of experience and knowledge.
If we restrict ourselves so whatever will we talk about?

:-) :-) (for the humor impaired)

>Comments?

Amen.  I regret to say there are a lot of regulars in this group whose postings
I routinely skip due to their proclivity for denigrating styles they know
nothing about, as evidenced by the replies of people who do.

-gb-
From: ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Bruce Lee on Classical Karate
Date: 11 Apr 92 16:49:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: colorado.1992Apr11.164902.15080
Organization: Cooperative Institute for Research in the Environmental Sciences

In article <1992Apr10.220212.25047@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> Dakin Burdick <burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
>Just to start a flame war...
>
>Bruce Lee was in marvelous shape, and had a very good self-defense
>system (when he wasn't posing for the cameras) and even had a good
>side kick, but his roundhouse kick was not that good and he really
>could not do any "advanced" kicks.  The chinese stylist they got
>to stand in for him on the Game of Death fight scenes that had 
>not been filmed is a much better kicker (although he does not
>have Bruce's charisma; but then, who does?).  
>
>Dakin
>burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
>

I don't know if this is really true, or just another urban legend, but I
once read that one of Lee's legs was almost an inch sorter than the other,
and this caused him extreme difficulties. Any truth in that?
Organization: Comp & Comm - Telecommunications, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Date: Tue,  7 Apr 1992 10:40:14 -0400 
From: Stephen Chan <sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Which Style To Take
	<AdsF54_00WBM4_0lRo@andrew.cmu.edu>

Shiv Swarup Pathak <sp3u+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> TKD,
> unlike Shotokan, Okinawain Karate, and other MA, relies heavily on a
> wide variety of kicks that seem very unatural at early stages of
> development.  Therefore, to become proficient with all these
> *traditional* movements, it takes a great deal of time and effort
> (perhaps more than many other MA that utilize a relatively small arsenal
> of techniques- yes I expect flames).

	Tsk! Tsk! Tsk!
	You should distinguish between a small, structurally faster
technique, and a "small arsenal of techniques". It sounds like you're
saying we Okinawan Karate dudes have like, maybe, 2 or 3 dinky little
hand techniques.

	Anyway, I don't think that you'll disagree with me when I
claim (without proof) that a big technique requires more speed and
timing to land correctly, than a small technique. Though I guess if
you have enough power, you can just steamroller the other guy.

> *please excuse my grammar and spelling.  I have got no time to double
> check my posting-- I've got 143 pages of a English book which I must
> read tonight.  Bye.

	I hope you don't plan on studying through Carnival! Burn that
silly English book, most of those English teachers are lit-crit Marxists
anyway :-)

Stephen Y. Chan		Programmer Analyst	CMU Telecommunications
stevec+@cmu.edu		(412)268-5115 [me] 	(412)268-4987 [FAX]
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fischer@netmbx.netmbx.de (Axel Fischer)
Subject: Re: multiple opponents; combat vs. self-defense
Organization: netmbx, Berlin, Germany
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:42:21 GMT

In article <8211@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:
>In article <barry.703210860@citr.uq.oz.au> barry@citr.uq.oz.au (Barry Kitson) writes:
>>keeping one of them between yourself and the rest of the group.  If you
>>can hit him/her (pick the weakest one :^) and end his/her day, then
>                           ^^^^^^^
>Funny, my teacher always recommends the opposite. Take the biggest,
>strongest, baddest, loudest, etc. first, in hopes of taking out the
>ringleader.

Mine says that too. Take the biggest out first - you may have a chance to
scare the others away if you beat the hell out of their leader.

Who's the leader? Easy - the guy who has the loudest mouth :-)

-Axel
-- 
fischer@netmbx.de                                                   DoD #0228
CBR600F2 (street) - NS400R (track)
From: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Cops (was Re: have you heard of...)
Date: 10 Apr 92 12:38:39 GMT
Reply-To: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

In article <1992Apr9.154223.28464@colorado.edu> ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett) writes:
>	Police, however, are under considerably more constraints
[Good points about difficulties of handtohand for police deleted]
>	Personally, I think that they would be better off learning the
>full range of martial arts, and take supplemental courses on
>less-than-devistating attacks and grabs.

These are very good points. To summarize, not only do they have to be
'compasionate', they often have to initiate 'conflicts'.

I have an acquaintance named Otis who is a BB in a mostly Goju based
ecclectic karate style. Otis has been practicing for about 15 years, and
is pretty durn good. He's also small. Otis is studying to be a cop now,
and he's finding much of his karate training to be inadequate for the
job, for exactly the reasons Ed cites. So now poor Otis is spending a
lot of time learning Aikido, and I am spending time acting as his
'perpetrator'...:(

David Poore
poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu
From: bae@Auspex.COM (Brian Ehrmantraut)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Here we go again...  (Dim Mak)
Keywords: Crunch, Break, Ow!
Date: 15 Apr 92 21:57:11 GMT

In article <q=zjcjk.dsmythe@netcom.com>, dsmythe@netcom.com (Dave Smythe) writes:
> Hmmm, well we actually *do* have that one somewhere in the system.
> I'm not sure it was a sweep, but there is an account of a strike to
> the heel area that caused death after a predetermined time. 

	Gee - thanks for the warning, I'll be more careful how I walk - 
wouldn't want to accidentally bump the Dim Mak spot-o-doom on my heel.  

	I think I'll wear shoes more often too :-)

-- 
		Brian A. Ehrmantraut

BELL:   voice:(408) 492-0900  fax: (408) 492-0909  
USnail:	Auspex Systems, 2952 Bunker Hill Lane, Santa Clara, CA 95054
From: fischer@netmbx.netmbx.de (Axel Fischer)
Subject: Re: White: Color of Gis, Color of Mourning - ?
Organization: netmbx, Berlin, Germany
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 10:18:05 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.052335.756@craycos.com> sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi) writes:
>In article <1992Apr7.023051.2181@wam.umd.edu> beawoulf@wam.umd.edu writes:
>>
>>It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!
>Heh heh heh. Never done suwari-wazam, have you?

And what about Monkey-Kung Fu where you hop around on your hands & feets?

-Axel
-- 
fischer@netmbx.de                                                   DoD #0228
CBR600F2 (street) - NS400R (track)
From: "elliott chapin" <elliott.chapin@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: multiple opponents; c
Date: 16 Apr 92 12:18:01 EST
Reply-To: "elliott chapin" <elliott.chapin@canrem.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

Treating multiple attackers as a single entity - interesting.

The one fellow student at Eddie Wu's who I've heard tell of dealing
with multiple attackers on the street was able to pick them off
one at a time.  However, we train a lot of the time with all weight
on one foot, thus making at least three "weapons" immediately
available.  We are also taught to make all actions immediate, without
preparation, so as to avoid telegraphing our intentions.

Elliott Chapin
---
  DeLuxe 1.12 #4315  elliott.chapin@canrem.com
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Ouch! Groin kick
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:24:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: colorado.1992Apr8.162452.25948
Organization: Cooperative Institute for Research in the Environmental Sciences

In article <52766@mimsy.umd.edu> tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
>
>     4) If you should be so unlucky as to take a shot to the groin
>during sparring yourself, I highly suggest retiring to the locker
>room ASAP and removing your cup; I found it to be a great relief.
>
	It also helps a lot to jump up and down a few times on your heels.
It sounds crazy, but it really works. Also I find it's actually a bad idea
to hunch over; the pain goes away quicker if you stand up straight. 
	Anyone else ever hear of this jumping up and down on the heels? My 
very first instructor told me about it, and I've never heard anyone else
suggest it. I sometimes suggest it to a fellow-student who's unlucky 
enough to need it, but they never seem very interested in trying it out. But
I've done it, and it helps a lot.
				Ed Hartnett
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: Dakin Burdick <burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Which is most effective? Point/Edge weapons.
Keywords: chinese broadswords, and straightswords...
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 08:24:56 -0500

In article <1992Apr12.025605.26900@eng.umd.edu> doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen) writes:
>
>	it's interesting, but the broadswords have the grooves for the blood
>and vacuum problem relief, but none of my straightswords have them.  the only
>speculation that comes to mind is that the straightsword, being a more elegant
>and higher level of weapon, would be used more for the cutting than the 
>stabbing aspect.

The grooves in broadswords were put there to lighten the blade, not to
let blood squirt out.  The "blood groove" myth has a long and
distinguished history, on a par with knights being lifted into the
saddle with cranes.

Dakin
burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Dougie-poo vs. the Ninja Master
Date: 9 Apr 1992 05:04:48 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu
Originator: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU

Even though the Ninja Master has yet to post an article that doesn't leave a
bad taste in my mouth, I think Doug has gone over the line of propriety and
good taste with his recent taunts.

Just because someone happens to be a computer geek who spends all his time
reading Black Belt, Inside Kung Fu, and Muscle & Fitness, doesn't mean he
has nothing to offer.  For example, he probably knows more about Bruce Lee
than any other contributor to this group.

True, the Ninja Master's prose style often sounds like he's accustomed to
taking dictation on stone tablets.  And, true as well, his "personal
experience" often has a certain cubic zirconium feel to it.  But the point,
ultimately, is that they are just his opinions, and he admits as much.

I think it gets back to the principle of not requiring people to publish 
their belt ranking along with their articles.  A person's words should
stand on their own merit.  And if someone is making a vigorous fool of
himself, he should be permitted to do so unmolested.  To make a big
farce of the matter insults the intelligence of the readership at large
by implying that we don't already get the joke.

And finally, as regards the prodigious youth of the Ninja Master, I'm 
currently studying under someone who left Hong Kong at the age of 24, 
already a master of Sil Lum (shaolin) Kung Fu.  True, he was a martial 
genius, and trained non-stop from the age of 7 with the best martial 
artists in Hong Kong.  But the point remains, you never can tell.


-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Robinson                            UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Here we go again...
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:42:29 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Distribution: na
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <kum8sjINNmkr@male.EBay.Sun.COM> scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
> It can also be weak against multiple attackers.
>Judo can actually be a very strong defense against multiple attackers.

	Yes, but I'd hate to have to use judo against 3 wrestlers...
(At once, I mean.)


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Real Martial Artists
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:36:05 GMT
Reply-To: stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Apr7.165126.890@relay.nswc.navy.mil>,
snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) writes:
|> No, my will power is failing, I just bought Reeces Peanut Butter Cups
|> from the machine, and can no longer resist the subliminal temptation
|> planted on my screen two weeks back.  But before I humiliate myself
|> for all time and space, be sure and check out the cyberpunk post on
|> humor.funny  arrgg.......

Let me get this straight: the guy that was found hanging by his ankle
from a tetherball cord is worried about being humiliated?

|> OK so what is the true martial arts driving vehicle?  I shouldn't think
|> it would be a single brand or type of car, but rather, the characteristics
|> such a vehicle might have.
|> 

It should look humble, but be tough and have lots of internal energy,
so I suggest that it should look like a Volkswagon "Thing" with a
composite kevlar and titanium steel body, and the same engine that
goes in an F16 fighter jet.

'Course those bleeding hearts at the EPA might have something to say
about it...

Joel Stave
stave@apollo.hp.com
Organization: Comp & Comm - Telecommunications, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Date: Mon,  6 Apr 1992 13:19:13 -0400 
From: Stephen Chan <sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Jow Ga

	A friend of mine saw an ad in Inside Kung-Fu for Jow Ga
Kung-Fu. He's seriously considering running off for 3 years to study
Jow Ga.
	Does anyone out there know anything about this school (it's in
or around Washington, DC)? They're advertising for live-in students
who are willing to devote 3 years of their life to learning the system
& spreading it around, in return for free instruction and free room
and board. But they have to train 7 days a week.

	(hey, a 3 year black belt program!)

Stephen Y. Chan		Programmer Analyst	CMU Telecommunications
stevec+@cmu.edu		(412)268-5115 [me] 	(412)268-4987 [FAX]
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: novice to master of basics to novice
Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 04:04:44 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.142435.26383@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> brankin@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (william.t.rankin) writes:
>2) One school that I used to study at had all women close the front of
>   their keiko-gis (uhm, doboks ;) in the opposite direction of the men.
>   (ie. right flap over left as opposed to left over right)  much like
>   the buttons on mens vs. womens shirts.  I never asked at the time, but
>   is this normal/traditional/reasonable?  Sounds like a silly question,
>   but I've always wanted to know...

I was told by an advanced Aikido instructor that left over right is
traditional in Japan.  He also said that only cadavers were clothed
the other way. Guess how the subject came up.  Yep, for perhaps the
only time in my life, I was wearing my gi right over left and he
spied me out.  Anyone else heard of this alleged tradition?
--
Richard A. Drury                                    drury@helix.nih.gov
National Institutes of Health
From: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Demonstration April 11
Keywords: success, danger, loose cannons
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:28:24 GMT
Reply-To: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt)
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center

The big demonstration we were preparing for April 11 at the
Pear Blossom Festival is behind us.  Whew!  I am going to try
not to be too wordy, but I have a few observations to share with
you.

I decided to copy a lesson from the Korean Tiger Team and not perform
with my demo team, this is what Master Ahn does and I think it really
helped.  That way I was able to stay focused on the crowd and schedule.
This was a good thing!

We had problems with the sound system, which shouldn't have happened,
I had an AV guy assigned just to work this out.  The bright note was
I had one of those wireless mikes so I  didn't have to worry about
cords, the bummer was if I got within 5' of the speakers, feedback
city :-(  Anywho, I had told the master if I had a sound system I
could deliver the crowd on a platter and so it came to pass.

The expostion sparring dragged a little, the plan was one minute
matches, three of them.  The heat (86 degrees F.) killed the competitors
whose bodies are still winter oriented.  I want to keep this, but
really need to work on it.

Some of the breaking (speed breaks) was too durned dangerous for
the crowd, boards and bricks flying right at them.  This leads
into the loose cannons stuff.

The demo team is mine.  I am the Master's.  But for this demo, we
had invited some BBs from another affiliated school.  They aren't really
on the team and so don't feel they are "under my command" so they
didn't clear their breaks with me and stuff.  Next time, my way
or the highway.  Pure and simple.   The other speed break was the
Master's, we are gonna have to have a long talk about liability!!!

Anyway, it did my heart good to see the kids pull it off after all
those practice hours! I think it is real good for them to get up in
front of a large crowd and perform.  A guy came to talk with us and
says he works for an educational TV station so maybe, just maybe, we'll
be on that OTHER NETWORK soon :-)
===================================================================
                   ** Keep on practicing **
===================================================================

Stephen Northcutt (snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil)     
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: puff@gl.pitt.edu (Steven J. Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: 2 questions
Summary: What goes through your mind when sparring?
Date: 15 Apr 92 09:49:39 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <87pf02Ob0fqO01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> minhtri@ccc.amdahl.com writes:
>
> 2.  What should go through one's mind while sparring?  
>
> Nothing should go through your mind while sparring.  You are supposed to
> pay attention to your opponent.  Look at your opponent in the eyes, not
> at his feet nor the center of his body.  Before your opponent attack
> you, he will glance at the point that he is aiming at.  You can verify
> this for yourself.

	And what if he reads rec.martial-arts too and looks in your eyes? :-) 

	I'm a little less than a novice, but I've heard it said that you
should pay attention to the set of the body.  Besides letting you keep
track of the opponent as a whole (i.e. not focusing in on one hand or
one foot, etc, to the exclusion of the others), you can't throw a kick
or a punch without using your hips and shoulders, etc.  You might fool
me with your eyes, but your hips will HAVE to show where you're kicking...

	This presumes, of course, that I'm sufficiently trained to do
something with this information.  One of these days, maybe I will be.
Comments from one of the martial-arts inteligentsia?

Steven J. Owens
puff@unix.cis.pitt.edu
From: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Herbal Poultices
Date: 16 Apr 92 12:55:10 GMT
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Organization: Florida State University


Herbal Poultices (I've seen Lauren use this term, I sure hope it isn't a
Meikido copyright infringement for me to use it...Meikido Lawyers
are a truely frightful thought!)

Anyway, I know that many Chinese systems rely on such formulae to aide,
and in some cases allow training to continue. These can be part of
conditioning regimines, used to heal injuries, etc. 

My question is, what sorts of things do YOUR systems use? I am
especially interested in what sort of substances might be used in
non-Chinese systems.

Thanks...

David Poore
poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mursha@cco.caltech.edu (Murali Shurmat)
Subject: Re: Request: Strange MA styles
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 15:35:34 GMT

napalm@next06pg2.wam.umd.edu (Warren L. Mohn) writes:

>I'm interested in learning something about "strange" Martial arts  
>disciplines.  What I mean by strange is disciplines that are not the  
>normal fare taught in the U.S. I want to know if anybody has information  
>concerning styles that may have originated in India, Cambodia, Thailand,  
>etc.  Or ANYWHERE as long as it's not the normal fare.  The stranger the  
......

The 'Journal of Asian Martial Arts' published by the Via Media Press in
its first issue has an article on Kalaripayet, an art from India satisfying
your conditions. This article has further references on the art.  I guess
forthcoming issues would have information about more such arts.

Murali Sharma
.

Organization: Comp & Comm - Telecommunications, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 22:35:37 -0400 
From: Stephen Chan <sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Aikido teaching styles

kjones@src.dec.com (Kevin Jones) writes:
> This process (and this process is encouraged by the style and emphasis of the
> practices of Shin-shin Toitsu Aikido) certainly changes the shape of the
> learning curve in the early years of Aikido but *in my opinion* it
> is actually more efficient preparation for learning the higher
> levels of the art.

	Just as a hypothetical question: do you ever wonder if the
"higher levels" sometimes don't apply, and you may be forced to rely
on something from the "rock" stage.
	I understand that at the higher levels of Aikido, it is not
necessary to even touch your opponent to throw them. But what if you
REALLY blow it, and someone slaps a full-nelson on you? ( Everyone makes
mistakes). Won't you need to come down to the "rock" level?
	Do you think this is a valid point?

> What I'm giving you is my current understanding. Feel free to use it if it's
> useful, ignore it if it's not and point out where and why you
> disagree with it if you like. I'm sure it'll be different tomorrow;
> it was yesterday. Just like any individual technique, I believe that
> your whole approach to the art should be fluid and free to respond
> to new knowledge and understanding.

	This attitude is probably what's lacking in the folks stuck
the "rock" stage. They have something which they know, and feel secure
with - but they are unwilling to part with it in order to gain the
next step in their development. That old "empty cup" stuff.
	I sometimes feel that development isn't the process of adding
skills, but rather, removing mistakes. Training is just the process of
looking for mistakes.
	It must be all that goofy Zen and Taoist stuff I read...

Stephen Y. Chan		Programmer Analyst	CMU Telecommunications
stevec+@cmu.edu		(412)268-5115 [me] 	(412)268-4987 [FAX]