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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:45:45 EDT
Reply-To:     "(Bill McGarry)" <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         "(Bill McGarry)" <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2952

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2952

                          Tuesday, October 06, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******


                 Re: Use of advanced tech and sign language
                           Permobil and Chair-man?
                    Re: HR 5450 To repeal ADA, any info?
                                O S Magazine
                 Re: Day care for Deaf and Hearing Children
                       Re: Need info on Cerebral Palsy
                       Re: Need info on Cerebral Palsy
                          Re: use of advanced tech
                           Rights of the disabled?


                                ******


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Subject: Re: Use of advanced tech and sign language
From: Pandora.Nigh@p0.f554.n157.z1.fidonet.org (Pandora Nigh)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:157/554.0 - Analytical Engine B, Willoughby OH


 -=> Quoting Robert Zakon to All <=-

    Hi Robert, some thought, comment and clarification on your post.

 RZ> of those who
 RZ> could not speak.
 RZ> My next thought was in regards to how they communicate and sign
 RZ> language came to mind.
      Well, some do use sign language, those that usually have a hearing
impairment as well. Other use portable speech synthesis devices such as those
manufactured by Prenke-Romiche. Basically they are either a set of voice taped
messages or words that are pulled up from a touch board menu or a synthesized
computer voice. Like any keyboard you can make each key supply a number or
different words or spell words by shifting or hit series. Keyboards can be
operated by hand, mouthstick or head attached light pointer. Alot of the people
that can't vocalize speech also can't work hands very well.For example some
people with C.P, certain forms of MD some quadriplegics as well as a host of
other disorders. So sign language as a means of communication is worthless for
them.

 RZ> Now, wouldn't it be interesting to have the
 RZ> computer recognize sign language.  Some research has been done in
 RZ> gesture analyzers via camera input, but instead, let's take a
 RZ> slightly easier technology to access: power gloves.  These gloves
 RZ> which are generally used in virtual reality, could possibly be used
 RZ> for identifying sign language symbols (hand motions).
    Intresting yes, but viable and neccessary I don't think so. You could input
into your computer by typeing just as easily as using a glove and a heck of a
lot cheaper. But the use of a glove for interfacing could be used to by pass a
keyboard and a mouse and maybe easier to use for a lot of people as opposed to
a mouse or holding a stick in your hand to punch out keys.

 RZ> Any thoughts on this, such as shortcomings or research that may
 RZ> already be out there?
 RZ>
 RZ> The above has been some rantings from about 5 minutes of thought.
 RZ> As such, any comments would be appreciated.  As I do not frequently
 RZ> read these groups, to contact me, e-mail directly to
 RZ> rzakon@mitre.org or hobbes@Hobbes.cwru.edu

    I am posting this both on the Abled and to you in net-mail hoping to get
some feed back on my thought process from the others on this echo. You should
visit us more often and you can learn about a lot of the technology outthere
now and what we use and what we think of it. Of course as a bonus you'll get
to meet alot of nice and intresting people.
                                             Pandora

... Nice computers don't go down.

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Subject: Permobil and Chair-man?
From: Gordon.Gillesby@f1007.n282.z1.fidonet.org (Gordon Gillesby)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:282/1007 - DRAG-Net, Andover MN


PN**> -=> Quoting Noel Harper to Pandora Nigh <=-

PN**>  Hi Noel, First I'll give you the config for my chair;
PN**>    I have the Max 90, with standing frame, lateral supports, lumbar
PN**>supports,
PN**>light package,18"arms, a headrest and a shorter seat length. With this con

PN**>the chair presently runs $24,000. Now, I hate to put a damper on your enth
PN**>iasm, but getting this chair has been a real headache. It took me a year a

   Just a brief interruption:  I was just looking into one of these
chairs.  While I still have some limited mobility, I'm going to need one
very soon -- at least for going anywhere out of my house.  I WAS
wondering just what kind of design could justify such a price tag!
Thank you very much for sharing your observations.  I will approach this
product with much greater caution.

   Doesn't ANYBODY make a well-designed, reasonably priced electric
wheelchair that reflects some taste and comfort as well?  Or am I just
looking in all the wrong places?

   Sorry -- whining mode is now off.  I really do thank you for sharing
your observations on your chair, it has been very helpful and very
timely.

                                - glg -

 * OLX 2.2 * You can always tell radiologists by their warm glow.

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Subject: Re: HR 5450 To repeal ADA, any info?
From: John.Nagle@f4.n382.z1.fidonet.org (John Nagle)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:382/4 - River City MailBox, Austin TX


Greg,

GM> The latest issue of the Federal Acquisition report has one line
 GM> of information regarding House Resolution 5450.  It describes
 GM> the legislation "To repeal teh Americans with Disabilities Act."
 GM> Does anyone have further information on this resolution?  Who
 GM> introduced it?  What does it actually do?  To which committee
 GM> was it introduced?  Who chairs that committee?  Who is running
 GM> against the Representative who introduced the legislation so I
 GM> can donate to the contenders campain?

 I found this Info in th PN mag (Sept 92)
 HR 5450 was Introduced June 22  By Congressman Mickey  Edwards  (R-OK)
 The Res. states repeal of ADA (PL 101-336; 42 USC 12101 et seq.)
 It was refered to House Committees on Education and Labor,Public Works and
 Transportation, Energy and Commerce, and Judiciary.

 In April congressman William Dannemeyer (R-CA) introduced H.R. 4993
 that would place limits on amounts spent for reasonable accomdations in
 employment and remove the the requirement for lifts on buses in systems
 that have Paratransit.

Neither of these bills have cosponsers.

It seems like these congressmen need replacement. This was the  first I
had heard of this kind of Legislative action and it is disturbing that
it has taken months to find out about it. I think I'll be paying more
attention to whats going on.

Hope this Info helps...

John

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Subject: O S Magazine
From: Linda.Cummings@f34.n375.z1.fidonet.org (Linda Cummings)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:375/34


Ok, who's the culprit?

I received a very nice surprise in the mail today.  A lady sent me a metal slate
 and stylus.  In her braille letter, she said that she had read my notice in the
 O S Magazine asking for a slate.

So, what is the O S Magazine?

I first thought maybe the Library of Congress had assigned me
someone to pen pal with, until I transcribed her letter.  See, I
had received a plastic slate in the mail about a week ago.  I
thought maybe someone from the Library of Congress had sent it to
me.

This is very nice of whoever did this, and I would like to thank them.

Linda

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Subject: Re: Day care for Deaf and Hearing Children
From: Jon.Eudy.@hnews.fidonet.org f8.n10.z1 (Jon Eudy 963/2)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:10/8 - The RBBS-NET Gatewa, Colton CA


JH> I have been mulling over the idea of a day care (6wks-6yrs) that would
JH> serve both hearing and deaf kids.  Both American Sign Language, and
JH> English would be used, but not simultaneously.  This would be an
JH> alternative to Public school early childhood education, where Signing
JH> Exact English is used.  Does anyone have any research about the
JH> language profciency of high school graduates, who were taught SEE as
JH> kids, compared to graduates who learned ASL first?  Any comment at all
JH> to this idea?  Thank you.
Janet,

OK, this gives me more information! I read your post on NE-SPED and
replied to it first. I work with some deaf university students who do
have some difficulty translating from Exact English to ASL, which they
were brought up speaking. However, they were also taught to read exact
English as well, so their difficulty is not so great. At least, they
speak with ASL, but read and write English fairly well.

Again, I don't have any research to back this up. Let me know if you
want me to try to get some authors.

JON

 # Origin: TC Forum, University of Nebraska, Lincoln, NE (8:963/2.0)

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Subject: Re: Need info on Cerebral Palsy
From: Bob.Dunlap@p0.f360.n226.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Dunlap)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:226/360.0 - Hangar 18, Columbus OH


MK>     1.  My daughters pediatrician SUCKS!!!.  Somehow he has managed
MK>     to miss all of my daughters symptoms for the last 2+ years.  He

well, i was never diagnosed with cerebral palsy until 1977. before that
they called it "spastic dyplesia" (grossly misspelled, but anyway it is
ironically a symptom of cp and not a disease by itself). heck, they put
me in orthopedic shoes for 3 years.

MK>     scheduled a month, or more, from when we ask for it.  Does anyone
MK>     know of a good pediatricain in the Dayton area?  I'm not looking
MK>     for anybody in a "volume" practice.  I'm hoping to find somebody
MK>     who has experience with cerebral palsy patients and who gives
MK>     more of a personal touch and act as a coordinator with all of the
MK>     required specialists.

i don't know anybody in dayton, but if you are willing to make a trip
over to columbus, i would recommend Dr. Simon at OSU hospitals as a first
step. what you really need to find is a good combination of orthopedic and
neuro doctors. dr simon is an excellent orthopedic surgeon. while he does
see a lot of patients, he can possibly refer you to what you are looking
for. also he is experienced with cp. i do not know if he is still practicing
in cleveland, but Dr. Peter Scholls (sp?) is an excellent orthopedic
surgeon. he deals mainly with children and cp. in fact he is the one who
told my mom that i had cp. minor problem with him, is at the time i was
under his care, he tended to be an "old world" surgeon and his thing was
fix now, worry later. perhaps now he is more into preventative care.

but i would recomment contacting Dr.Simon. like i said, if he isn't what
you want, then he might be able to refer you.

MK> I would also appreciate it if somebody could send me any information
MK> regarding cerebral palsy and what expectations should I have for my
MK> daughters rehabilitation and her prospects for leading a normal/happy
MK> life. Please respond with any information you have.  Much thanks in
MK> advance.

i'm 20 and i lead a fairly normal and happy life. :) so it is possible.
what is important is that she recieves treatment NOW before things
(possibly) get worse.

i would recomment that you take her to a physical therapist and arrange
for weekly therapy. while it might be a long trip, i would suggest
bringing her to the Easter Seals center here in columbus next to Children's
Hospital. here she could recieve excellent treamtment and you could get
all the information you need. it would also help to hook you into the
network of ortho & neurosurgeons that practice in this area.

my mother has a great deal of info on doctors & such that she has recorded
during our experience. i will see if she can photocopy it and mail it
to you. i will also see if i can find any of the information that we
have from when i had a selective posterior rhizotomy. it's a procedure
that if done early enough can hault the developement of cp. if we have any
of that left, i will copy it and mail it to you.

i am not sure what else to say, other than yes she can be helped and yes
you can lead a very normal life with cp.

bob

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Subject: Re: Need info on Cerebral Palsy
From: Melissa.Mead@f136.n267.z1.fidonet.org (Melissa Mead)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:267/136 - Access BBS, Ballston Spa NY


Sorry to jump in on your conversation, but I just thought you might
like to hear from another person with CP who leads a "normal, happy
life." I have CP, and I've graduated from college and earned a
driver's liscence. So although CP varies a lot in different people,
you CAN still accomplish a lot. Best of luck with your daughter.
Missy ;)

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Subject: Re: use of advanced tech
From: Ambrose.Moore@f24.n3602.z1.fidonet.org (Ambrose Moore)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3602/24 - ADAnet One (tm) Net, Pinson AL


                --From the Voice of Ambrose Moore-- Hello Pandora!

PN> RZ> Now, wouldn't it be interesting to have the
PN> RZ> computer recognize sign language.  Some research has been done in
PN> RZ> gesture analyzers via camera input, but instead, let's take a
PN> RZ> slightly easier technology to access: power gloves.  These gloves
PN> RZ> which are generally used in virtual reality, could possibly be used
PN> RZ> for identifying sign language symbols (hand motions).
PN>    Intresting yes, but viable and neccessary I don't think so. You
PN>could input
PN>into your computer by typeing just as easily as using a glove and a heck
PN>of a
PN>lot cheaper. But the use of a glove for interfacing could be used to by
PN>pass a
PN>keyboard and a mouse and maybe easier to use for a lot of people as
PN>opposed to
PN>a mouse or holding a stick in your hand to punch out keys.

Hmmm. I agree that the initial costs of implementing such
technology would be staggering, but I believe that the use of
virtual reality in accessing a computer, [via the gloves], is an
excellant one.  I know at present where v.r. is used to design
housing for the disabled.  And I think that, [IMHO], technology is
leaning towards further applications of v.r. in helping the
disabled lead a more indepedent role in society through these sorts
of ideas.

I think that perhaps using a glove with a stick *is* cheaper. But,
co nsider this. When I mentioned to a prospective employer that I
knew how to use a computer, and its different applications,
[WordPerfect, Windows, etc.], he was impressed and made an appt. to
see me at my apt. [He knew I was quad].  We chatted for a while,
and he said that I had good experience, education, etc. and wanted
to see my computer skills on my own system.  On goes the splint,
and stick to access the keyboard. "Oh!  I didn't know you accessed
the computer that way..."  End of interview, gone any hopes of
employment.

I know, I know, I should have told him in the first place.

To me using a stick, just doesn't cut it.  However, the voice
activation device I'm using now, [Voicetype], seems to give me a
bit of an edge. What I guess I'm trying to say is that high-tech
equipment, [such v.r., voice recogntion devices, etc.] can and
should be used whenever and however possible for someone with a
disability, with the cost being a secondary factor.  Perhaps the
ideology of a lot of employers, "How much is it going to cost me?",
needs to be re-examined.   [Ooops! Sounds like I'm straying off
topic!] [g]

PN> RZ> Any thoughts on this, such as shortcomings or research that may
PN> RZ> already be out there?

The use of Virtual Reality, [in regards to its uses for the
disabled], has become a recent fascination with me.  Did you know
that California State University is having a Symposium on "Virtual
Reality and Disability" on June 17-18, of next year?  I'd looove to
go, but I'm afraid my present economic and demographic position
makes it impossible. Ah well, you never know! [g]

Nice chatting with 'ya!

                                           ...power gloves, I love it!

Regards,
>From the Golf, Whiskey, November,
Ambrose Moore

--Voice Console, Go to sleep--
===
 * SLMR 2.0 *  We don't need no stinkin' badges - IRS
 * QNet3 * <ADANET> Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario - (416)798-4713

 # Origin: ADAnet(tm) NetHub Birmingham, Alabama (205)854-9074  (94:94/1)

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Subject: Rights of the disabled?
From: Melissa.Mead@f136.n267.z1.fidonet.org (Melissa Mead)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:267/136 - Access BBS, Ballston Spa NY


Under ADA, I don't think you can be laid off BECAUSE OF YOUR
DISABILITY if it doesn't prevent you from doing your job, but since
I don't know much about you, your  disability or your job, that's
all I can say. Good luck!

 Missy ;)s

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                  End of Issue # 2952 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU