From: husemann@camelot.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Dirk Husemann)
Subject: Re: IP connections and Germany
Organization: CSD., University of Erlangen
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 10:50:32 GMT

schoett@informatik.tu-muenchen.de (Oliver Schoett) writes:

>In article <1992Aug18.082075.pell@lysator.liu.se> pell@lysator.liu.se writes:

> > I wonder if it might be time to question the future of the Internet
> > (TCP/IP) in Germany. It's not my purpose to tell anyone how to do
> > things, but my fear is that not everybody is aware of what's going on.
> > Maybe it's not too late for those who want IP to do something.

>[...]

> > >> Hi! Since about one week back, the routing to (certain computers(?) in)
> > >> Germany has been over the UK, instead of the usual Amsterdam, with severe
> > >> performance degradation.

>I noticed an even crazier routing last night: from Munich to France
>over London - Stockholm - Amsterdam!

>   [lida] traceroute -m 20 -w 40 cnam.cnam.fr
>   traceroute to cnam.cnam.fr (192.33.159.6), 20 hops max, 40 byte packets
>    1  * * *
>    2  bro4cz.lrz-muenchen.de (129.187.220.254)  9 ms  8 ms  8 ms
>    3  bro1c1.lrz-muenchen.de (129.187.10.251)  16 ms  10 ms  10 ms
>    4  dfnbigate_s2.GMD.DE (188.1.236.124)  12255 ms  7205 ms  11573 ms
>    5  int-gw.ulcc.ac.uk (192.16.192.185)  13256 ms  15098 ms  8323 ms
>    6  London-EBS1.Ebone.NET (128.86.1.6)  14269 ms *  7120 ms
>    7  Stockholm-London.Ebone.NET (192.121.155.18)  12593 ms  8802 ms  11991 ms
>    8  Stockholm-EBS1.Ebone.NET (192.121.154.33)  5711 ms  4533 ms  5486 ms
>    9  Stockholm-EBS2.Ebone.NET (192.121.154.18)  10077 ms  13970 ms *
>   10  * Stockholm-EBS4.Ebone.NET (192.121.154.50)  12680 ms  13180 ms
>   11  Amsterdam.NL.EU.net (192.87.4.20)  9131 ms  6456 ms  7259 ms
>   12  Paris.FR.EU.NET (134.222.2.2)  6293 ms *  18449 ms
>   13  fnet-gw.inria.fr (192.93.1.108)  11685 ms *  22512 ms
>   14  cisco.cnam.fr (192.70.71.6)  16838 ms  14640 ms  21646 ms
>   15  * * cnam.cnam.fr (192.33.159.6)  11884 ms

>Note also the abysmal packet running times, apparently caused by
>dfnbigate_s2.GMD.DE (this was at 9 p.m., hardly rush hour on the net).

>I was in Swansea (UK) for the last six months -- the typical ping time
>from there to the US was 0.4 - 0.5 s, to Munich 5 - 10 s.  Telnet to
>Munich meant waiting minutes between commands.

>With this sort of performance, the Internet into and out of Germany
>becomes nearly unusable.  Is there any chance of improvement?

I cannot speak for neither the DFN nor the GMD doing the actual service of 
providing IP/X.25. I think a couple of circumstances happened to coincide here:

	(1)	The GMD (dfnbigate_s2) has been experiencing severe line
		problems with their X.25 point-of-attachment. The German
		Telekom seems to be busy trying to fix that situation. 
		(Basically they suffer from a huge amount of CRC errors on
		that line).

	(2)	The DFN-IP (what all the people complaining so far have been
		using) is using a new line between Germany and the UK. This
		line will be run at 2 Mbit/s in the next future. The UK seems
		to have a >= 512 Kbit/s line to Stockholm. Thus the net 
		effect will be better connectivity.

I think what currently constitutes the main problem  is (1). Also, have any of
you ever experienced IP connectivity to European sites via the EUnet (speaking
of connectivity is in itself kind of an overstatement)? 5-10 secs round trip
times are the average (from within the German WIN --- the German Research
Network).

Bashing the DFN-IP service w/o trying to find out why things go wrong/don't
work that well is IMHO not exactly what one would consider fair, right? A call
to your network administrator could have reveiled that (the GMD people did
post a mail to the sites that use DFN-IP telling about the CRC problems).

	Dirk


Dirk Husemann						 Tel.: +49 9131 85 8029
University of Erlangen-Nuremberg			 FAX: +49 9131 39388
Department of Computer Science IV
Martenstrasse 1 	   
D-W 8520 Erlangen, Germany

Dirk.Husemann@informatik.uni-erlangen.de
/C=de/A=dbp/P=uni-erlangen/OU=informatik/S=husemann/G=dirk/

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