HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: u9039899@cs.uow.edu.au (Darrin Jon Smart)
Subject: Re: Stereo (Was: Re: Fish Flappage)
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Wollongong University, Australia
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 09:38:57 GMT

csilver@nyx.cs.du.edu (Cameron Silver) writes:

>>After listening to Data East music, I think that must be in stereo.

>>Is Premier/Gottlieb real stereo?

>data east is in stereo (Or so the machines say) ...

Mabye its just me, but is there really any point having the machines play in
stereo in the first place? I mean, most machines are set up in noisy arcades
and wedged between other machines and the speakers aren't all that far apart.

I don't play DE machines that often but I've never noticed any stereo
effects. I only knew they were stereo because of the messages on the
machines themselves.

When in a place that has both DE and Williams machines I notice the sound
on the Williams ones first.

Personally I think manufactures would be better off using their resources
elsewhere on the games.

 - Darrin

PS: Where do Gottleib machines go to in Australia? Haven't seen one since
1812... (and that was in Gosford!)

Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: bcasper@eos.ncsu.edu (Brian Casper)
Subject: Williams Level 4 schamatics
Originator: bcasper@c00100-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: bcasper@eos.ncsu.edu
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:37:55 GMT


Who has some documentation for a set of Level 4 boards?  I've got a '78
CONTACT machine that has power supply problems (among other things) and
the oldest docs I have are for Lev 7.

 
-- 
-- 
Brian Casper                |   "I like to study psychologists.  It gives
bcasper@eos.ncsu.edu        |    good insight into what rats are thinking."
  Pinball Consultant        |     -  Dr. Oscar Wesler
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: smarties@nyx.cs.du.edu ()
Subject: Ignorance and TAF
Organization: Pin Addicts Anonymous, Canterbury, Kent
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 00:26:25 GMT


 Hi. I guess I'm a newcomer to the world of pinball, but I have played
 a fair few (from Funhouse to T2)

 I'm going to have to admit it, though; no matter how hard I try, I can't
 work out what TAF stands for! 

 Could you put me out of my misery?


..by the way, where I am, our common room charges 50p (that's about a dollar)
 a game for a shot at Whirlwind/Hot Chase/Party Zone. What are the comparative
 costs per credit (3 balls) for other places?

 The only up-side is the 18 million point replay on Whirlwind.. I can get it
 every time! (In spite of the fact that the left hand alley is blocked off!)

								jim
From: lucas@gab.unt.edu (BRYAN LUCAS)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Pinball Heaven?
Date: 10 Nov 92 21:08:21 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: College of Arts and Sciences

WOW! That's a lot more than I've ever seen around here (Dallas/Ft. Worth) 
area. I've been to several arcades in the area, and have yet to find one 
with anywhere near this number of pins. Does anyone know of any places in 
the Dallas/Ft. Worth area that have more than the usual one or two games 
(usually old ones at that)?

Bryan Lucas
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: u9039899@cs.uow.edu.au (Darrin Jon Smart)
Subject: Re: Stereo (Was: Re: Fish Flappage)
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Wollongong University, Australia
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 07:45:40 GMT

gleeson@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Red Mountain) writes:

>Well, you were probably lucky to see that one. Premier/Gottleib don't have an
>Oz distributor, and so their only pins that ever make it over here are special
>orders from the U.S. And no vendor would go to that much trouble to get one

Very strange indeed. The "Class of 1812" machine mentioned was in a video
shop in Woolgoolga (10k north of Gosford, NSW), set up for public use. We
had quite a few games of it. In fact it was probably responsible for my
current addiction to pinball machines. They also had "The Simpsons" (DE) and
another pin with a snooker/pool theme which I think was a Gottleib as well.

It's a shame Gottleibs aren't more common in this country - they seem to be
very decent machines.

The above machines were last seen by me about a year ago. I am now in
Wollongong, which gets machines a long time after they are released. Oh well.

Come to think of it, there is a Gottleib "Black Hole" at Wollongong Uni.
Very old machine though. Virtually none of the lights work so I can't figure
out the rules!

 - Darrin

Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: jeremym@ravel.udel.edu (Jeremy A Moskowitz)
Subject: Re: Ignorance and TAF
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 02:09:20 GMT


The Addams Family by Bally. The best. Simply the best.

-- 
     // Email: jeremym@brahms.udel.edu------\  Monitor of---------------\
    //  Registered Commodore Amiga Developer|  Comp.sys.amiga.EMULATIONS| 
\\ //         Remember Girls, Turnabout is Fair Play. - Babs Bunny
 \X/           My Life Needs Cheap Dubbed in Sound Effects - Anon.
From: kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Keefer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Status Report
Date: 9 Nov 92 13:27:43 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

Most games since around Whirlwind let you speed through the display like that.
I believe that most DE games will too, if not all of them.  That's why I get
frustrated when playing Earthshaker and want to know how many extra balls I
have.  It's all the way at the end of status and that game doesn't let you
speed through it.  Which is highly annoying.

keith
-- 
|kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu|"And the piano sounds like a carnival             | 
|.....Keith P. Johnson.....| And the microphone smells like a beer            |
|.1711 Whipple Dr. Apt. 11.| And they sit at the bar and put bread in my jar  |
|...Blacksburg, VA 24060...| And say "Man, what are you doing here?" -B. Joel |
From: exuhag@exu.ericsson.se (James Hague)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Loud pinball games...
Date: 5 Nov 92 15:15:53 GMT
Reply-To: exuhag@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Richardson, TX
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

Steve Baumgarten writes:
>
>One problem that's relatively new, I think: games these days tend to
>make all sorts of noise when they're in "attract" mode. 

When I was hooked on The Machine, it was right next to Back to the
Future.  Every ten minutes or so it would *blast* a ZZ Top song
which completely covered up all the sounds of my game.  Actually,
the BK2K I normally play is also next to a BTTF and I have the same
problem.  If it is too loud, I catch the ball and flip the neighboring
machine off, wait, then back on.

I won't even go into video games...well, maybe.  The most annoying
attract mode has got to belong to The Simpsons ("WAAAAHHHH! WAAAHHHHHH! 
WAAAAAHHHH!  WAAAHHHHH!").  I've heard it in malls when walking
in the general vicinity of an arcade.

--
James Hague   
exuhag@exu.ericsson.se
From: jkubic@reed.edu (Jan Kubic)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Fishtales In Portland, OR
Date: 8 Nov 92 06:50:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov8.065043.5152
Distribution: usa
Organization: Reed College, Portland OR

That about says it.  Where in Portland do I go to find Fishtales?
I checked all the Wunderland type places--they hadn't even heard of
it.  And while we are at it, where can one find Black Rose and CBW?

I'm also thinking of buying a game, either new or 2 to 3 years old.
Any recommendations for distributors in Portland?  I know there are
several and have visited one, but I'd like to hear from anybody
that has had either good or bad experiences with anybody here.

Thanks,

Jan Kubic
jkubic@reed.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: hecht@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Caroline Hecht)
Subject: Re: Kid (ie, Toy) Pinball Games In Sears Christmas Catalog
Reply-To: hecht@tc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell National Supercomputer Facility
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:23:46 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.010628.2380@godzilla.quotron.com>, jeff@godzilla.quotron.com (Jeff Marder) writes:
|> 
|> I would like to get my 6-year old a pinball game, and I was wondering if
|> any net readers have had any experience in this area.  There are several
|> games ranging from $30-$50 in the catalog.  Any recommendations or brands
|> or models to avoid?  Will ni-cad batteries work ok??              
|> -- 
|> ===========================================================
|> jeff@godzilla.quotron.com
|> Quotron Systems   310-302-4316

I don't know anything about the "kid" games, but we recently bought an
older ('74 or so) real pinball machine for $100, and my 6-year old
loves it, and has gotten pretty good at it in the month we've had it.
(My 4-year-old likes playing, too, but still flips the flippers pretty
constantly instead of just when the ball is nearby.)  If you can pick up
a real machine, I'd recommend that.

-- 
Caroline Hecht * hecht@tc.cornell.edu * (607) 254-8686
Cornell Theory Center / Cornell National Supercomputer Facility
From: phaedrus@carson.u.washington.edu (Mark Phaedrus)
Subject: Matches (was Re: New games)
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 03:16:41 GMT

In article <SBB.92Nov9123559@panix.com> sbb@panix.com (Steve Baumgarten) writes:
>In article <1992Nov8.201358.3788@cbfsb.cb.att.com> yyz@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (donald.w.coons) writes:

>I'm sure it's an operator-settable thing, but I will say this: The
>match has gone away completely at Station Break in Penn Station in New
>York City.  They also tried FISH TALES at 50 cents per play, but then
>quickly backed off to 50/75/$1.  However, the "no matches" setting
>seems to be here to stay, at least at this particular arcade (one of
>the largest in the city).

     Actually, I don't particularly object to arcade owners turning off
matches; though I think they're shooting themselves in the foot by removing one
of the few chances for novice players to get a free game (and thus build 
interest in the machine), at least it's obvious to the player what's happening.
The truly slimy operators leave the matches enabled, but turn the match
percentage down to 1%.
     By the way, on the subject of matches, what would you all say to an
operator setting that allows matches, but only if you didn't score a free game
during play?  (So if player 1 made the replay score and player 2 didn't, only
player 2 would get a chance to match.)  It seems to me that this would be a 
pretty reasonable compromise between the interests of owners and players; it
would let the novice players (and the experienced players having bad games) 
keep getting their matches, while reassuring the owners that the wizards 
-- 
Internet: phaedrus@u.washington.edu        (University of Washington, Seattle)
 "If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs,
    consider an exciting career as a guillotine operator!"
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: dglow@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Dave Low)
Subject: Re: Auto-plungers
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:05:29 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.224451.4172@muddcs.claremont.edu> omitchel@jarthur.claremont.edu (Ocie *crow* Mitchell) writes:
>In article <BxL6Jz.Cpw@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Keefer) writes:
>>What about both?  I remember playing a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles pin a
>>year or 2 ago and I'm pretty sure that you could shoot the plunger, but
>>there was an auto-firing plunger there too.  Right?  I think that was a 
>>pretty cool idea, and wouldn't mind seeing it in more games.
>>
>
>My Centaur (c1980) has that setup too.  You put the first ball into play with
>the plunger, but during multiball (multi=5 balls :o) the balls are 
>automatically launched.  It does it this way because you never physically 
>"lock" balls during the game.  I don't remember how multiball works on tmnt.
>is it the same sort of thing?
>
Checkpoint is another game that has the dual plunger. Once you start the 
multiball it is nice enoght to throw a couple of balls out for you....

The original black night used to have a bonus round at the end of the game
whre it would throw out balls continuously and you had to be the auot plunger..
I liked that idea (like the shootout on LW3)..

					Dave Low
From: sbb@panix.com (Steve Baumgarten)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Stereo (Was: Re: Fish Flappage)
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:08:24 GMT
	<1992Nov6.160947.11870@rtsg.mot.com>
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In article <1992Nov6.160947.11870@rtsg.mot.com> iott@rtsg.mot.com (Joel K. Iott) writes:

   Another post mentioned that the two speakers on new Williams/Bally
   games are actually tweeter/midrange, and not stereo.  Also I
   believe W/B have a bass speaker in the bottom of the cabinet. (e.g.
   for rumbling during TAF multiball entry).

   If this is true, why does W/B do this?  Why don't W/B machines have
   real stereo sound?

Williams/Bally games are not in stereo, though the sound system itself
(since TAF) has been greatly improved.  Why isn't it in stereo?  If I
had to guess, two reasons: first, everything costs money, and if you
have stereo sound, you might not be able to have a big rubber fish or
a Dalek on top of the game; second, because few people notice the
steero effect, especially in noisy arcades, so it just doesn't pay to
upgrade everything to support it.  Face it: if you're half-way across
the arcade, which is more likely to draw you into a game of FISH
TALES?  I'll bet it's that big rubber fish, rather than a sound system
you can't even hear five feet away from the game.

Data East obviously felt differently and put a lot of money into
completely overhauling their sound system; the result -- including
stereo sound effects and music -- is noticeably better than Williams
(IMO), but then again, I'm really into pinball sound.  Other people
are more into big rubber fish on top of the game, so your mileage may
vary...  :-)

   Is Premier/Gottlieb real stereo?

I don't think Premier's sound system is in stereo, though I find their
speech much crisper and clearer than the speech on Williams games.
Overall, though, their sound system -- like their dot-matrix display
programming -- isn't really in the same league as either Williams' or
Data East's.

--
    Steve Baumgarten       |  "New York... when civilization falls apart,
    PANIX, New York, NY    |   remember, we were way ahead of you."
                           |  
    Email: sbb@panix.com   |                            - David Letterman
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: cdimick@javelin.sim.es.com (Clint Dimick)
Subject: Re: Auto-plungers
Reply-To: cdimick@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:00:49 GMT

blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.) writes:

>Auto-plungers suck big fat hairy rocks.
>r.

AMEN!  I'd much rather have a go at a skill shot than the "convenience" of
having the balls auto-fired into play during multiball.  In addition, it seems
that recently most of the auto-plungers on local games lack the required oomph
to even get the ball into play.  When this happens, you're screwed.  At least
on the classi-plunger, one is able to smack the thing forward if the spring
or bushing is shot.
-- 
"Major corporations make decisions that lead people   | Clint Dimick = cdimick@
 to adopt harmful products, such as alcohol, tobacco, | javelin.sim.es.com = I
 and sugar-coated cereals." - _Human_Societies_ 6thed.| speak for myself, thank
 Your average overpriced, opinionated college text.   | you. Wow: 801-288-0887!
From: zweldron@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Matthew Charlap)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Dr. Dude -- what gives you Super-Dude status?
Date: 8 Nov 92 18:22:11 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

doom@elaine36.Stanford.EDU (Joseph Brenner) writes:
>Does anyone have any idea why the machine doesn't always
>give you the "Superdude" once you've hit the Excellent-Ray? 
>Usually it gives it to me (and then I get to try for the
>Gadzillion shot, etc), but occasionally it doesn't. 

Whenever you go to the excellent ray, it improves the "Dude-o-meter":
Plain dude
Party dude
Cool dude
Major dude
Superdude

When you go out of multiball, the meter stays where it is, except at superdude.
when the multiball ends in Superdude, you drop to Major dude, unless you earned
the Gazillion, in which case the dude-o-meter drops off the bottom. The dude-o
meter does not reset at a game-over (cf. Gottlieb's DOUBLE in many games).
As a result, it builds to Major Dude quite quickly, and then every excellent
ray shot give Superdude until Gazillion is earned. That's why it 'usually' 
gives Superdude, but not always.
-- 
This is a test of the .signature 
If this were a real .sig file, something else would be here.
From: halw@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Hal Work)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:32:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Pinball Heaven?
Organization: the HP Mtn.View Resp. Cntr.
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball

I was there is 1989 ... a wonderful place.  Had a great time playing a bunch
of pins.
From: sbb@panix.com (Steve Baumgarten)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Fish Tales - bleah
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:56:18 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In article <josh.720923885@mowgli> josh@cqs.washington.edu (Josh Hayes) writes:

   I hate this machine. It stands between a Star Trek and
   a Lethal Weapon III, and EITHER is better than this pile
   of junk -- well, maybe not the Star Trek.....

You are in Stage 1 of FISH TALES-itis: anger and disgust.

Keep playing, and you'll find yourself in Stage 2: hopefulness.

The third stage is acceptance and grudging respect for one of the
hardest games to be released in recent times.

Then a little while later you find yourself wanting to play nothing
but FISH TALES (except maybe the execellent CUE BALL WIZARD).  This is
the fourth and final stage of FISH TALES-itis.

Everyone seems to go through these stages; too bad a lot of people get
turned off the game right away and never give it the second, third and
fourth chances it really needs.  The new, short flippers (and thus
wider center drain) and the ball-eating side drains don't help
matters, of course.  In terms of novice-friendliness, I'd say that
FISH TALES is a complete opposite of something like DR. WHO, a game
that rewards the novice player with easy-to-get multiball and a
wide-open playfield that's very forgiving of inaccurate shots.  

Good shot selection and accurate shots are a must in this game.  You
can't just bounce the ball around and hope for a decent score (or even
a decent play).  Bouncing the ball around aimlessly is a sure way to
have it drain almost immediately.  Instead, you have to learn the
game, know when to make certain shots and how best to make them, and
then you just have to hit 'em.  Backhand shots are an integral part of
the game, and the scoring is designed so that there are many ways to
achieve a high score -- though you're best having one in mind before
you start to play.

Most important of all is this: despite the happy, friendly graphics
and the humorous tone of the game, it's a serious, hands-on, muscle
game.  You have to nudge the game constantly, especially when the
ball nears the outlanes.  If you just stand there politely, you'll
have the world's shortest game and walk away in disgust.

The game's theme really throws people, because it looks like such a
*friendly* game -- but underneath, it's nasty as can be.  

FISH TALES is a very, very challenging game, but it's very rewarding
for those who appreciate a good challenge.  Learn to master FISH TALES
and you should have little or no problem mastering any other game out
there. 

--
    Steve Baumgarten       |  "New York... when civilization falls apart,
    PANIX, New York, NY    |   remember, we were way ahead of you."
                           |  
    Email: sbb@panix.com   |                            - David Letterman
From: overturf@bigbootay.sw.stratus.com (Dallas Overturf)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: WMS new flippers/ credit button (was Fish Tales - bleah)
Date: 10 Nov 92 22:07:02 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigbootay.sw.stratus.com

In article <LFS.92Nov10125753@arcadia.mitre.org> lfs@mitre.org (Lyman F. Sheats Jr.) writes:
>overturf@bigbootay.sw.stratus.com (Dallas Overturf) writes:
>
>>I think I'd like my old flippers back please!!!!!
>
>Yeah.  Me too.
>
>>I found the same to be  true of fish tales.  
>
>Yeah.  Me too.
>
>>black rose also has the short flippers but the game seems like it was 
>>designed for them.  DWHO seems like it was designed for the longer flippers
>>and then was made with the short ones.  Just my opinion at a glance.
>
>Are you sure?  I thought the new short flippers first appeared on Fish
>Tales.
>
>--
>Lyman F. Sheats Jr.
>The MITRE Corporation
>202 Burlington Road, Bedford MA 01730
>email: lfs@mitre.org

Am I sure:  Well 
99% sure;  short of measuring every game.

The new short flippers are the flippers with the lightning bolt
on the top.  We did in fact  measure a pair on Black Rose against an 
old pair while I was at our favorite distrib yesterday;
and they certainly were at least 1/8th inch shorter.  Possibly
1/4th of an inch.  It was a rough measurement on paper as a ruler was
not handy, but they were indeed shorter.

FYI folks....:  This also means that WMS/Bally flippers
are no longer replaceable across the board.  Make sure you specify
what style you want when ordering or you may change your game 
by mistake!

			Regards,  Dallas...
From: jeff@godzilla.quotron.com (Jeff Marder)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Kid (ie, Toy) Pinball Games In Sears Christmas Catalog
Date: 9 Nov 92 01:06:28 GMT
Organization: Quotron Systems, Inc.


I would like to get my 6-year old a pinball game, and I was wondering if
any net readers have had any experience in this area.  There are several
games ranging from $30-$50 in the catalog.  Any recommendations or brands
or models to avoid?  Will ni-cad batteries work ok??              
-- 
===========================================================
jeff@godzilla.quotron.com
Quotron Systems   310-302-4316
From: kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Keefer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: High Speed Attract mode (was Re: Loud pinball games...)
Date: 11 Nov 92 00:38:43 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

What I really think is impressive is the way the lights on Whirlwind move
and cycle to the guitar music after the game is over.  Everything from the
drop target value lights to the skyway tolls indicator circle to the compass
circle moves around as the musical notes change.  As far as I know this is
the only game to do this; I haven't noticed it on any others...  After the 
music stops, it'll go into its "normal" light flashing sequence.  One reason
may be because the Whirlwind end-of-game music actually stops as opposed to
most others which just fade out (notably Funhouse, Hurricane, TAF, etc.), so
the lights wouldn't really be able to do that.

Also, Funhouse uses the "circle" of lights when in attract mode, in addition
to DIAGONALS...  The lights sweep from lower-left to upper-right then from
lower-right to upper-left.  (Or vice versa.)  Neat stuff.

keith
-- 
|kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu|"And the piano sounds like a carnival             | 
|.....Keith P. Johnson.....| And the microphone smells like a beer            |
|.1711 Whipple Dr. Apt. 11.| And they sit at the bar and put bread in my jar  |
|...Blacksburg, VA 24060...| And say "Man, what are you doing here?" -B. Joel |
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball