HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:20:31 EDT
From:         "Cathy Brandt" <CBRAN00@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: KA-BLOOIE! (Luckily, Not!)
              7 Oct 1992 21:03:44 EDT from
              <HJOHNSON%KENTVM.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>

On Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:03:44 EDT Harold Johnson said:
>The question Cathy is how can you receive the support/recognition that
>you need to stay in there year-after-year + how can we go about giving
>individuals in prep. to become teachers, access to you and other
>dedicated teachers

Good question.  I've only been doing this for five years.  So, I've not
experienced burn out.  I get support from parents, my principal and co-workers.
I still love what I do and every year has been better than the one before.  I
think one key is always staying fresh and doing something new.  Never do the
same format the next year.  There *always* has to be a new, different, better
way to do the same old thing so that it isn't *the same old thing.*

I guess profs in the training business continue to put calls out for teachers
who are willing to be mentors/coaches/collaborators with their students.  It
keeps me hopping when I have a student teacher!

I love a quote from a Dennis Waitley book, "Find a master mind and become a
master mind."  I am continually seeking out master minds from which to learn.
That is the next secret - love learning and never stop!

That's all I can think of for now!

Cathy - Teacher of children who can't figure out what is in the mystery bag and
after three days *still* refuse to give up.  They say they'll have more
questions tomorrow in order to find out more info about the object!   Hey - I
think I've passed on another value or they already had it  -  stubbornness!
From: LEW@TAUNIVM.BITNET (Lew Golan)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: hype
Date: 16 Oct 92 22:32:52 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Esther says:

> Why can't deaf people be TextTelephone-to-Voice relay operators?
> Because they can't hear....

> Why can't deaf people be music mix / studio recording specialists TODAY?
> Because they can't hear to do the job....

> Harrumph!  So name something that no deaf person can do that a hearing
> person can do that doesn't require hearing!

     As I understand what you're saying, you interpret Schreiber's
statement as meaning:

     "Deaf people can do anything that hearing people can do...except
something that requires hearing."

     That's what I've been saying.

Lew Golan, Tel-Aviv University <lew@vm.tau.ac.il>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: Handicap Digest?
From: zevpeter@chen.bgu.ac.il (Bill Peter)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 11:41:50 GMT
Organization: Ben Gurion University, Beer Sheva, Israel
Originator: zevpeter@chen.bgu.ac.il


|>
|>  Excuse me... Handicap Digest?
|>
|>  I, for one, do *NOT* consider my deafness as an handicap.
|>
|>  I just can't hear, but that doesn't stop me from using the Relay...
|>  Just a few modifications, like TDD, wirtten communciation,m interpreters,
|>
|>  Is *THAT* handicapped?



     Yes.


|> "Deaf people can do anything except hear" - I. King Jordan



   More tautologies:
   Blind people can do anything but see.
   Legless people can do anything but walk.

--
Bill Peter
Physics Department
Ben-Gurion University, Beersheva, Israel.
Organization: The Bolis Group, San Jose, CA
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:55:26 PST
Reply-To:     Alan Millar <amillar@bolis.SF-Bay.Org>
From:         Alan Millar <amillar@BOLIS.SF-BAY.ORG>
Subject:      Re: Handicap Digest?

MUTH_M@gold.colorado.edu writes:

> I believe that there is a difference between being deaf, being able to do
> anything but hear and being blind, being able to do anything but see...
> I'm not going to insult any blind people, but the difference is that the deaf
> people can succeed dispite of their deafness.

Excuse me?  You think "the difference is deaf people can succeed" won't
insult any blind people?!

I met a blind person who is a technical support engineer in the telephone
response center of one of the nation's largest computer companies.  Most
people I know consider it "success" by normal standards.

I haven't met any deaf people holding telephone (voice) technical support
jobs.  Or even telephone receptionist or operator jobs.  Go figure.

So what is the point?  The point is that most deaf people don't like
being labeled as deficient or incapable of succeeding.  I would expect
the same courtesy for blind people.  Doesn't it seem logical that
a handicap ("Gasp! Horror! He said that WORD!") can be overcome given
appropriate circumstances, making it therefore not a handicap?

- Alan

----                                                     ,,,,
Alan Millar       amillar@bolis.SF-Bay.org            __oo  \
                                                        =___/
Caution: Do not fold, spindle, or mutilate.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 10:43:35 -0700
From:         Vicki Brown <vlb@MAGIC.AUX.APPLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: handicap
              10 Oct 92 10:23:24 +0700. <9210100827.AA00415@apple.com>

  Vicki Brown
  A/UX Development Group            Apple Computer, Inc., Cupertino, CA
  Internet: vlb@apple.com           AppleLink: VICKI.BROWN

Lew says:
>     You compared a hearing person's "handicap" in being unable to lipread
>something he wasn't even supposed to in the first place, and which would
>have brought him no benefit at all (it was, after all, a lesson in signing)
>with a deaf person's core handicap in being unable to get (and perhaps
>convey) vital information in a myriad of situations day in and day out
>throughout his lifetime.

Lew -

No, I didn't.  I was not making a generalization.  You, of *all* people,
should be wary of drawing too broad conclusions from any statement!

I said two of us were at a disadvantage, - in that place and that situation -
because there were skills that we did not have.  I indicated that a "handicap"
is all in how you look at it, and dependent on context.  The 2 deaf people in
my class may be considered "handicapped" but only in so far as their hearing
is concerned, and then only in situations where hearing is required.  My
example was only meant to show that, in any given situation, any given skill
or lack thereof may be considered a handicap *at that time*.

Under no circumstances did I mean, or intend anyone to think I meant, to
compare, or equate "handicaps".  Context is everything; by taking my comments
out of context and attempting to generalize, you change them and make them
meaningless.  To attempt to draw parallels to other or broader situations is
to assume a statement that I did not make.

Too often people don't think and just say "Oh, he's handicapped!".  Or worse,
use "The Handicapped" as if it were an amorphous group of people. (Hire the
Handicapped).  The important question is *what handicap* and whether, in the
given circumstances, there *is* a recognizable handicap.

If the discussion of "Handicaps" had not been raised, I would still have chosen
to share my anecdote with the List.  I apologize to anyone who thought I was
attempting anything more than merely sharing what I thought was an interesting
experience.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1992 10:19:50 EDT
From:         "(Esther A. Paris)" <esther@DEMAND.ED.RAY.COM>
Subject:      looking for a cartoonist (or a cartoon)

Hi everyone!  I have a funny cartoon that is about a zillionth
generation copy.  It has apparently been enlarged, copied,
faxed, reduced, enlarged, etc... to the point where it's hard
to read the cartoon.  (But once you read it, you get a good
laugh.)  It's a view of a church from the second row of the
choir.  You can see two choir members whispering to each other,
a priest giving a very serious sermon, the sign language interpreter
and the congregants' faces.  Does anyone recognize a cartoon of
this nature by my description?  If so, does anyone have a clean
copy of said cartoon that they'd snailmail to me?  Or, MUCH BETTER
YET, does anyone know how I could find the cartoonist?  It seems
like the signature on my copy says something like one of the
following:

	Horton- Chambers
	Norton- Chambers
	Marten- Chambers
	Haston- Chambers

But then again, after a trillion generations of photocopying, it's
pretty hard to make out the signature.  There is no date on the cartoon
as far as I can see.

Any ideas welcome!

Esther Paris, Raytheon EDL, Marlborough, MA   esther@demand.ed.ray.com
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 07:13:01 -0400
From:         Miriam Clifford <DMIMI@ECSVAX.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Handicap Digest?

Scott:

Be aware that Handicap Digest covers a lot of ground--physical handicaps,
amputees, para- and quadraplegics, chronic pain, multiple schlerosis, etc.,
etc., etc.  The only reason the blind are not included is that Bill made
a separate digest for them.  I won't beat on the issue again, but deafness
and hard of hearing ARE handicaps.  How much they handicap YOU is a different
issue as is whether or not you feel handicapped.  The fact remains that you
(and I and all the rest of us, including I King Jordan, are missing an
(delete the word 'an') or impaired in an important sensory modality that
most other human beings have.

dmimi@ecsvax.uncecs.edu  dmimi@ecsvax.bitnet
Miriam (Mimi) Clifford; 2535 Sevier St, Durham, NC 27705; 919-489-4821
From: XLACHA1@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Omer Zak)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Cochlear implant failures
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:59:57 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

We all know the term 'oral failures' - meaning people who are deaf and
were educated orally (lipreading and speech).  However it did not work
out for them, and they grew up deprived of both sign language and real
knowledge of the language used by the society in which they are.

I wanted to tell you about the story of a 'cochlear implant failure'.
The man, an acquaintance of mine, lost his hearing several years ago
during military service, when a bomb exploded very near to him.  Since
then he tried everything to get some hearing back.  He bought TDDs (it's
how I came to know him).  He tried all sorts of alternative medicine.

One day cochlear implants got wide press coverage and he was excited
about the new technology.  He went ahead and had the operation done to
him.  However, something was wrong and he suffers from dizziness.  The
electrode is not functional.  He was supposed to undergo corrective
surgery.  But he is afraid of it and he already postponed the operation
once.

Some people report success with cochlear implants.  For others it does
not help.  My friend was unfortunate enough that it damaged him.
I would like to help him get more realistic assessment of his
future by asking you, gentle readers and correspondents of DEAF-L,
whether you know anyone who had similarly bad experience.

Are there any people with cochlear implants in the DEAF-L list?  Do you
know anyone for whom something went wrong during the cochlear implanting
procedure?  And if he has undergone corrective surgery, how did it turn
out?

By the way, my friend had his operation in Israel (when they were relatively
inexperienced in this kind of operation).
                                                    --- Omer
From: markhunt@ZEN.CAC.STRATUS.COM ((Mark Hunt))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Hearing and Deaf students.
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:48:07 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Cathy Brandt asked "I'd be curious to know how you and the other hearing kids
responded to the deaf kids in your school.  What were the general thoughts
regarding the deaf kids in the school?  Did they make friends, stay much to
themselves, participate in school activities etc."

My high school was a Regional Vocational school.  It accepted hearing students
from four surrounding towns, deaf students and mentally handicapped from a
much wider geographic area.  Though I had heard comments, mostly negative,
about the mentally handicapped students, I never heard any comments about
the deaf students.  I had never thought about that until now and must admit
that I am at a slight loss of any commentary.  As such, I am not sure what the
general thoughts or feelings were in regards to the deaf students.  In my
home room, which was my shop for four years (Computers), the two students
remained mostly to themselves at the beginning.  Over a short time period,
two of the hearing students, myself and another, began communicating with
Filly and Jim by passing notes back and forth.  Most of the remaining
students did not freely attempt to communicate.  Later, the school began
offering an ASL course and both of us attended in hopes of improveing our
ability to communicate.  The ASL class size was small, 12 or so students,
compared with the school student population size of around 700 students.

This is pretty true of the friendships, most deaf students hung around with
other deaf students and only a handful of hearing students thrown in.

Mark

P.S.  Thanks for the welcome!
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1992 10:51:56 EDT
From:         "Joseph P. Riolo" <riolo@COR4.PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:      Hype and Motto

      Regarding the phrase "Deaf people can do anything except hear" or any
variation of this phrase, it is time for us to check the definition of "hype":
According to Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary, "hype" is defined as:

                1. slang: hypodermic
                2. slang: a narcotics addict
                3. deception, put-on
                4. extravagant promotion or advertising

(This dictionary use different typefaces for different reasons that I could not
reproduce here nicely.)

      #1 does not apply to our discussion.  We are not talking about skin!

      Ditto for #2.  Needless to say, we are not talking about drugs.

      We do not intend to deceive people about our deafness.  We do not pretend
our deafness.  Thus, #3 does not apply.

      We do not attach any price tag to phrase.  The phrase is free; it is not
copyrighted or trademarked.  We do not advertise or promote anything with the
phrase.  Therefore, #4 does not apply.

      Conclusion?  Those who claim that the phrase is a hype ought to retract
their statements.  But, we are not inquisitors.  We will not burn them.  Let
them say what they think so that we will know who or what they are based on
what they say.

      Enough said on "hype".

      Let's try for "motto".  According to the same dictionary, "motto" is
defined as:

                1. a sentence, phrase, or word inscribed on something as
                   appropriate to or indicative of its character or use
                2. a short expression of a guiding principle

      We do not carry buttons with phrase on them at all the times.  But,
we do carry buttons sometimes.  We may have bookmarks with phrase printed on
them.  We may have posters with phrase written on them.  Though #1 seems to
be true for us sometimes, the scope of #1 is still limited and we do not like
to be limited.

      So, that brings us to #2.  That is our purpose.  We intend to make
the phrase as one of the highest principles to live by.  We may not fulfill
all of the principles fully but they give us unending inspiration to strive
for the ideal in our life.

      It is no wonder why we treasure some mottos.

                                        Joseph P. Riolo
                                        <riolo@pica.army.mil>

"Don't worry.  Be happy."
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-VMS-To: msuvx1::in%"deaf-l@siucvmb"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:54:00 CDT
From:         CONLEY%MSUVX2@MEMSTVX1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: RE:KA-BLOOIE! (Luckily, Not!)

>From: 91babik@gw.wmich.edu (Lisamarie Gemma Babik)
>And here's the cow.sig, just for you!  :)

/***********************************************************************/
/          (__)           Lisamarie Gemma Babik                         /
/          (oo)                                                         /
/   /-------\/            91babik@gw.wmich.edu                          /
/  / |     ||                                                           /
/ *  ||----||           When cows laugh really hard,                    /
/    ^^    ^^          does milk come out their nose?                   /
/***********************************************************************/

        Thanks again Lisamarie!!!
        BTW, I am assuming this picture is:     a) a very thirsty cow?,
                                                b) a sterile bull?,
                                                c) a bisexual holstein?
                                                d) a transvestite in drag?
                                                e) all of the above?


                                        Steven Conlee
                                        CONLEY@MEMSTVX1.MEMST.EDU
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:53:35 EDT
From:         askwersk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject:      Unknown if Received on DEAFL

For some unkown reason I was taken off DEAFL. I would like to be put back onb
yet I never wrote down 'what i'm supposed to type' in order to get signed
up again. In any case I got a reply from my post regarding the TTY.
Here it is...

Adam Skwersky



------- Forwarded Message

Received: from ATHENA.MIT.EDU by po7.MIT.EDU (5.61/4.7) id AA08257; Wed, 7 Oct
 92 08:04:54 EDT
Received: from cu.nih.gov by Athena.MIT.EDU with SMTP
	id AA00251; Wed, 7 Oct 92 08:04:53 EDT
Message-Id: <9210071204.AA00251@Athena.MIT.EDU>
To: ASKWERSK@Athena.MIT.EDU
From: "Paul Daniels" <LND@CU.NIH.GOV>
Date:     Wed, 07 Oct 1992  08:03:25 EDT
Subject:  Re:  TTY

> In response to your inquiry about a PC communicating with a TTY: There are
> devices available for your PC to make it TTY compatible. I dont have an
> address or phone number off hand, but if you have the blue TTY directory look
> for a Ken Glicksman in Maryland. He produces software that runs on a PC
> and he sells hardware to go with it that can let you use your PC as a
> TTY with all the power of an IBM (i.e. phone books, answering machines,
> programming...etc...)
> Adam Skwersky

I happen to be one of the dealers, if you or anyone is interested in
buying a FULLTALK Set, I am selling each for $275.00 plus $5.00 shipping.
Thanks for sharing with others, Paul Daniels <LND@NIHCU.BITNET>


------- End of Forwarded Message
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 08:03:56 -0400
From:         Miriam Clifford <DMIMI@ECSVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: KA-BLOOIE! (Luckily, Not!)

Actually, more and more women's rest rooms have water spigots in the sink,
that turn on and off automatically when your hands are under them!  So maybe
we're a little ahead of the guys, for once! :-)

dmimi@ecsvax.uncecs.edu  dmimi@ecsvax.bitnet
Miriam (Mimi) Clifford; 2535 Sevier St, Durham, NC 27705; 919-489-4821
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:52:10 IST
From:         Lew Golan <LEW@TAUNIVM.BITNET>
Subject:      (Not)

I've never seen a cow laugh hard
Although I've seen its nose run
But if you want to milk a joke
It sure takes one to nose one

And: will all those who thought that "Purple Cow" was written by Ogden Nash
(or perhaps Dorothy Parker) please stand in the corner with me? It was
written by Gelett Burgess.

Anyhow: hearing people leave unlit gas burners on all the time. The hazard
is not limited to those who are deaf or hard of hearing.

Lew Golan, Tel-Aviv University <lew@vm.tau.ac.il>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-VMS-To: msuvx1::in%"deaf-l@siucvmb"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:46:00 CDT
From:         CONLEY%MSUVX2@MEMSTVX1.BITNET
Subject:      Washington, DC

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Hello again all,

Couple of things here:
  The viewing of the NAMES Quilt is this weekend, (Oct 9,10,11), on the Mall.
I hope that many of you will be there.  I will try to visit Gallaudet also,
so if any events or happenings are going on this Saturday at Gally, PLEASE,
email me soon, as I will be leaving Memphis, TN on Friday.. Thanks.
I would also like to meet some of you netters,.. I'll be on the MALL!

  I can't tell you guys/girls the hours I've spent thinking about this
dreaded plague, money sent to various charitable organizations helping
these victims, time spent helping friends with AIDS and sadly, the time
spent putting some of them in the ground.  I personally feel that this
"showing of the quilt" will be the most awakening moment of my life and
as hoped, for the rest of the world.  From my understanding, invitations
have been sent to every government official at Washington including
the president, v.p., congress, etc... as well as the candidates running
for office, Clinton, Gore, etc....

  I do apologize to you who see this listing as a LGB issue if you find
this offensive.  Unfortunately and realistically, AIDS is a world issue
and shows no prejudice or preference towards anyone.
Thanks for listening and, hope to see you there.


                                        Later,
                                        Steven Conlee
                                        CONLEY@MEMSTVX1.MEMST.EDU
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.script-l
Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 09:54:33 CDT
              <SCRIPT-L@RICEVM1.BITNET>
From:         denise <DCOBB@UA1VM.BITNET>
Subject:      script manual

I am interested in getting a script manual.  I am aware of the closed
inforserv where manuals were available.  I am very interested in learning
how to use script.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.script-l
From: RICK@ysub.ysu.edu (Rick Marsico)
Subject: Re: Waterloo Script and INLINE page segments
Organization: Youngstown State University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 16:00:23 GMT

In article <1688181A1.RICK@ysub.ysu.edu>
RICK@ysub.ysu.edu (Rick Marsico) writes:
 
>
>I am encountering problems with inline page segments under Waterloo Script
>90.1 in both the vm/cms and mvs environments.  Under cms, the segment
>will be properly processed by SFCM only when the SEnd option is included
>on the PSF command.  When '.si AAAA inline' is specified in the SCRIPT
>routine (where AAAA is the name of a page segment with a file type of
>PSEG3820), the following message is received back from SFCM:
>APRFFI349S page segment AAAA PSEG38PP was not found.
>
>In editing the output generated by script with the I3820 option, the
>requested segment is inline, however, SFCM is not recognizing its
>existence.  Anyone encounter this problem?
>
 
Further investigation shows that the graphic segment is not being
processed properly by the I3820 post processor.  It is generating
message i38-027W 'graphic segment contains invalid data'.  This
causes I3820 to process as if the NOSEGLIB option was specified.
 
The segment was created using the IBM IHF V2.1.2 utility.
 
rick@ysu.edu