From: robertk@taoami.lerctr.org (Robert Kesterson)
Newsgroups: comp.multimedia
Subject: Re: Buying a multimedia system
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 6 Sep 92 08:15:45 CDT
Organization: Not an Organization

In article <1992Sep4.151113.3583@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> mdicker@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mike Dickerson) writes:
> Hello,
>
> I currently have a 386 clone with a Soundblaster and SVGA.  I wish to
> get into "hobbiest" multimedia - however, I am not so happy with the
> multimedia capability of my 386.  I know I can upgrade the sound, but
> SVGA can't seem to do fast full-screen animation, and also, I want to
> go out to video tape, which I can't do right now, nor a few other
> things I mention later on.
>
> So I am looking to replace my 386 with antoher system.  However, I am
> on a strictly limited budget.  I don't need the highest quality, but I
> am limited to $3200 total, for the whole shebang.
>
> I have in mind two systems.  One is Mac based, one is Amiga based.
> However, the dealers from these two places tell me contradictory
> things and I don't know which to believe (or maybe neither! :^)
>
> First of all, my minimum requirements are: 15 bit color, video
> resolution, the ability to easily get multimedia presentations out to
> video tape, good (24 FPS?) frame rate.  I don't need 1024x768 graphics
> because I think video resolution is only about 350 to 400 scan lines
> anyway for SuperVHS.  Also the $3200 hardware budget is *fixed*.  I
> have some more to budget for software but that's another day's
> problem.

NTSC video is 30 fps, 512.5 lines vertical (about 480 of which are actually
visible on the screen).

> Now, the Macintosh dealer is recommending a Mac system running
> Quicktime.  The Amiga dealer is recommending an Amiga 3000 with some
> device called "DCTV" which he claims gives 18 bit color in video res
> animations.

DCTV is a composite device.  It is somewhere between 18 and 21-bit color.

> The Mac dealer says that the Macintosh has much more multimedia
> software graphics, animation, and sound available than the Amiga,
> which makes sense since it has a larger customer base.  A good
> software base is an important factor in buying a system.  So this
> would have me leaning more towards a Macintosh.  However, the only
> thing that bothers me about the Macintosh is that the Quicktime movies
> I see all look jumpy and slow, and do not use the entire screen (just
> a several-inch window), whereas the Amiga animation with the DCTV
> seems much faster and uses the whole screen in video res.  I ask the
> Mac dealer about this and he says that there are hardware devices to
> speed up the QT movies: - however, they all would push my price up to
> over $3200 which I simply *can't* do.

I think your Mac dealer is misinformed.  The Amiga has tons of software for
animation and multimedia (ask your local cable television supplier).  Plus
if your budget is a concern, you can get a lot more bang for the buck
as far as multimedia goes with an Amiga system.

> So one question is: is it possible for me to get 18 bit full-screen 24
> FPS video from a Mac with Quicktime and keep my purchase price for
> hardware under $3200 total?  This must include a way to move the QT
> movies to video tape on my VCR.  What device do I need for the Mac to
> do this, and how much does that device cost?  What sort of Mac system
> is best for this?  Do I need a Quadra, or can a Mac II do this level
> of animation with QT?  The Amiga has only a 68030 so I doubt a Quadra
> (68040) is needed for 24 FPS fullscreen animation.  Maybe a 40 Mhz
> 68030?  Is there a Mac II with that, and how much $$ is it?

Bear in mind that the Amiga system with SCTV will not need anything else
to put it on videotape.  The DCTV will connect directly.

> Second, I want to have the ability to animate directly off of the
> harddisk in order to play animations larger than memory.  Can
> Quicktime do this?  There was some software the Amiga dealer had
> demoed which did an acceptable job at animating in DCTV mode from hard
> disk, but the demo only used about half the screen to move and the
> other half was just "static", sort of (ie, all one picture covered the
> whole screen, but only half of the picture contained any moving
> elements).  Can QT animate double buffered from HD and if so, can it
> do it in full screen instead of the half screen like the Amiga program
> was doing (also while playing sounds)?  (It was half, not quarter,
> since it was updating the bottom of the screen while the top was
> showing still sky).  What I think this involves is to have two tasks,
> one which reads from HD and fills buffer, and the other plays the
> animation from that buffer.  (It is abilities like this that I can't
> get on my 386, nor can I get acceptable frame rate animation from it
> unless the whole screen is not updated).

The Amiga has no trouble with full-screen animations, whether from memory
or from hard disk.  And if you want to create animations for videotape, plenty
of software exists that will let the Amiga control your tape deck for putting
those animations on the tape a frame at a time, if you so desire.

> Third: since the Mac dealer says that they have a much larger software
> base for graphics and video work than the Amiga has, how much should I
> expect to spend for good multimedia software?  My software budget is
> about $500 total, right now, to get up and running, but I can add more
> software in a few months (maybe $250 more software in 3 months).
> Ideally I'd like: the quicktime program, a sound sample editor, a
> paint program, a ray trace or scan-line renderer for generating
> animations.  What else do I need?  Also the Ami dealer demoed a
> program called "Scenery Animator 2.0" which looked to be really cool
> and useful for some multimedia applications - this sw was only about
> $65.  What are the comperable packages on the Macintosh, and how much
> do they cost?

Again, I think the Mac dealer is misinformed.  On the Amiga, you could get
a *good* set of tools for multimedia for your $500 software budget.  The
DCTV comes with a pretty good paint program.  The Amiga comes with AmigaVision.
Then you'd probably want to add Deluxe Paint IV (mailorder is about $100), and
for your 3D modeling and rendering you'd want Imagine 2.0 (mailorder is about $200).
You can get any of several good sound digitizer/editor/sequencer packages for
about $100.  Your software dollar goes a lot further on the Amiga than it does
on the Mac.

> Also, should I give the Amiga any more consideration than I am giving
> it now?  I have to admit that the DCTV animation *did* look much
> higher quality than the QT animations, but I am just worried about the
> lack of software and the small user base of that machine, since my
> friends all say it is a toy and not worth getting.  (Although it
> didn't look like a toy to me, but I haven't used it much in order to
> really know - all I know is that it has a multitasking OS, but Mac
> System 7 has that too.  I definately want multitasking in order to
> render while I do things like dial into BBSs, use word processor, or
> whatever, which is another reason I'm giving up my 386, because it
> doesn't permit me to do that very well even under Windows or OS2.  I
> know the Amiga can do this well, because the dealer gave me a demo of
> running a ray tracer, running that Scenery Animator, downingloading at
> 9600 from a BBS all at the same time, and then using a WP in the
> foreground and everything worked very well - no dropped chars in the
> download, and two number-cruncher programs made good progress even
> while the WP responded quickly.  I gather the Macintosh under System 7
> can do this same sort of thing, but the dealer there didn't have a
> modem connected in order to demo that - my 386 cannot do this at all.
> Maybe a 486 could under OS/2, but I want to explore a new computer
> since I've had the 386 for so long.

The Amiga's multitasking OS is not the same as the Mac's System 7, but
I won't get into that or someone will scream advocacy.  The demo the Amiga
dealer gave you is typical.  My Amiga (an A3000) is constantly doing
something like this.  You can even play your full-screen animations at full
speed while doing all that other stuff (yes, I have done this).  The
Mac will not be able to do this as well, since disk activity will
interrupt anything else that is running (including your animation).

I won't argue that public perception of the Amiga isn't exactly great.
But that doesn't make the machine any less capable, especially for
multimedia.  (Again, ask your local cable company how they feel about
the Amiga for video work.  The cable folks I talked to here have a room
full of them, many with Video Toasters, and love them all.)

> Oh, also, can the Mac play soundtracker modules?  I like these, and
> have a good collection already for my 386.  Can I use the exact same
> files to play on the Mac as I have now for my 386?
>
> I guess that's about all.  Thanks for any info on this topic.  I have
> a slight leaning towards the Mac right now, but I need more
> information and I don't trust the dealers very much.  I suspect the
> net is much more knowledgable than the dealers are :-)
>
> Mark "no .sig" Dickerson.

Software does exist that allows Macs to play Soundtracker
files, though the ones I heard didn't sound all that great on it.
Be aware that SoundTracker is an Amiga program, so the Amiga can
play those files quite well.

=====================================================================
 Robert Kesterson             "First learn computer science and all
 robertk@taoami.lerctr.org    the theory.  Next develop a programming
                              style.  Then forget all that and
                              just hack."        -- George Carrette