HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aultj@rpi.edu (Jim Ault)
Subject: Re: alt.whale-hunting
Followup-To: alt.config,soc.culture.nordic
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:36:50 GMT

In article <14113@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller) writes:

   2) The subject matter already has two potential groups for
   discussion already; talk.politics.animals and talk.environment. We
   do not need a third.

I agree completely.  Please do NOT create this group.    Consider this
an objection.  

Jim Ault, ITS Systems Programmer, aultj@rpi.edu    <><
From: s12334@doc.flc.colorado.edu (JAC)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: proposal for ALT.MUSIC.TECHNO - NO!!!
Date: 16 Aug 92 11:27:00 GMT
Reply-To: S12334@doc.flc.colorado.edu
Organization: Fort Lewis College
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Ok, come on,  Alt.rave is a broad enough group to cover all of
those topics that a newsgroup Alt.music.techno would ever consider.
Why deal with all of the repition of threads, cross posts, etc.
that two groups as similar as rave and techno would produce.
IMO alt.music.techno is completely unnessicary, especally due
to the presence of alt.rave.

John
From: pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown)
Subject: Re: REC.MUSIC TECHNO - yes (Re: proposal for ALT.MUSIC.TECHNO - no)
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:11:11 GMT

steve@cse.fau.edu (Steve Smith) writes:

>If industrial rates a rec. group, I would say that techno rates one also.

FERRRRRGET IT!  Way too specific.  If people are going to start ranking on me
for posting a wailing diva or ambient review in the newly created
rec.music.techno, then I won't even post the reviews that DO fit into the
category.  You all are giving way to much credit to the techno idea when it
isn't really popular in major markets anymore.  If anything should be created,
it should be rec.music.rave.
-- 
			  I'm not wearing any pants.

DISCLAIMER: My writings have NOTHING to do with my employer.  Keep it that way.
Pete Ashdown    pashdown@slack.sim.es.com    ...uunet!slack.sim.es.com!pashdown
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.uu.future
From: esz001@cck.coventry.ac.uk (Will Overington)
Subject: Re: problem with alt.uu.* groups?
Organization: Coventry University, Coventry, UK
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 08:37:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.215054.5893@javelin.sim.es.com>,
pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown) writes:
>esz001@cck.coventry.ac.uk (Will Overington) writes:
>
>>For example, I suggested early on that we design a Usenet University
>>scarf. This suggestion, made in good faith, was criticised as something
>>of external form before getting internal content. So, my idea was lost.
>>I genuinely feel that, had people designed a scarf and interested people
>>had each gone out and bought some cloth and made a Usenet University scarf
>>and worn it as winter arrives, then the sense of camaraderie would have
>>assisted the learning process.
>
>This is the funniest thing I've read all week.  I don't know about you folks,
>but I WANT my UseNet University SCARF!
>-- 
>			  I'm not wearing any pants.
>
>DISCLAIMER: My writings have NOTHING to do with my employer.  Keep it that way.
>Pete Ashdown    pashdown@slack.sim.es.com    ...uunet!slack.sim.es.com!pashdown

Hey, MADE YOUR WEEK!  :-)

You've made mine, because pants over here doesn't mean what it means
over there!

I know that humour is often in the mind of the person who thinks it is
funny, but why is the concept of a Usenet University scarf so funny?

Maybe wearing one is a fun thing to do?

Thanks for your input,

Will

Newsgroups: alt.config
From: mjbrown@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mike J. Brown)
Subject: Re: proposal for ALT.MUSIC.TECHNO - YESSS!!!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 14:07:51 GMT

umm Breakbeat Techno, Ragga Techno, Ambient Techno (alt.r-&-s ?)
:)

>> I say let's start an alt.music.techno group and go from there.
>> --Eric

>I fully support this idea! Currently the only techno news around is on
>alt.rave.  To be quite frank, most of the alt.ravers are just wanna bes
>who have no real idea about the music and are just too interested in what
>the last E did to them, rather than going out and buying some decent music.
>
>Let most of these guys decay in their own chemical soup, and let the people
>who really love the music get on and talk about their music.
>
>The above newgroup categories however, may be pushing it for a while.
>just an alt.techno will do until you get more people posting.  Really, it
>should be called alt.hardcore.techno.  That will keep all the pretend techno
>postings out.  I really do not call stuff like 2 unlimited techno.  That is
>commercial, try hard bull!  If anyone calls that techno they should hang their
>head in shame.  That is the sort of stuff that is b-ing posted in alt.rave.
>
>WE WANT TEKKNO REAL TECHNO!
>

agggh!  What kind of attitude is this?  First you say it's a great idea
to have a newsgroups for all kinds of techno, then you want to keep all
but your favorite kinds out!  You're in good company as far as 2-Unltd.
stuff goes; most alt.ravers probably don't like them much either.  But
techno, like it or not, encompasses all those things listed above, and
probably more.  The days of easy pigeonholing are long gone; there is
so much crossover happening in such short periods of time that we either
have to have one general "alt.music.techno" or none at all, IMHO.  Look
at r.m.i.  Obviously there are many branches of "industrial" music but
to demand individual groups for all of them would be ridiculous... no
one would want to post or bother to read all of the different groups.
If in alt.rave, r.m.i., or any other newsgroup I read I see something
I'm not interested in, I skip over it [try using trn instead of rn, btw].
And besides, techno is associated with raves and the rave spirit, which
is contrary to the efforts of people like you who want to name-call and
factionalize.

drowning in my chemical soup,
Mike "wannabe" Brown
-- 
Mike Brown
mjbrown@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
"The Universe is a spheroid region 705 meters in diameter."
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.rave,rec.music.industrial
From: EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu
Subject: Re: REC.MUSIC TECHNO - yes (Re: proposal for ALT.MUSIC.TECHNO - no)
Organization: Wayne State University, C&IT
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 00:53:08 GMT

In article <16ov3jINNo4e@agate.berkeley.edu>
bbehlen@soda.Berkeley.EDU (Vitamin B (Brian Behlendorf)) writes:
 
>In article <1992Aug17.170543.501@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> steve@cse.fau.edu (Steve Smith) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug17.151111.18797@javelin.sim.es.com> pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown) writes:
>>>FERRRRRGET IT!  Way too specific.  If people are going to start ranking on me
>>>for posting a wailing diva or ambient review in the newly created
>>>rec.music.techno, then I won't even post the reviews that DO fit into the
 
Not me. I wouldn't flame you. Honest (no smiley!)
 
>>>category.  You all are giving way to much credit to the techno idea when it
>>>isn't really popular in major markets anymore.  If anything should be
>>>created, it should be rec.music.rave.
>>
>>Huh?  You must be one of those strange people who thinks techno is subtopic
>>of rave.
 
That's a refreshing change from the "rave is techno" stance. K:^P
>
>Huh?  You must be one of those strange people who thinks that the only music
>played at raves is wham-bam-side-splitting-biohazardous-"hardcore"-140bpm
 
The rave group is for party people, the techno group would be for music
people. I belong to the latter.
 
>techno, when really a wide variety of stuff is heard; deep house, trance,
>brain-melting (but not fast or edgy) acid, tribal rhythms, hell, even the
>"Blue Room" was dropped into the middle of a relatively fast set last week
>at the Psychic TV gig... people have also started bringing drums to raves
>to play along with the music.  I don't know if you'd allow any of those types
>of music to be on rec.music.techno.
 
Anything techno-relative should be fair game. As for neat stories about
what people are doing at raves, that wouldn't belong.
>
>I predict, if the group gets created (and who sent the .ctl message, anyways?)
I haven't the faintest notion! ;-)
>the first major thread will be: "But is it hard enough? No!"
 
I thought select transcripts from WDET's "Fast Forward" might appeal
to techno fans. That could be a weekly posting.
 
>>I think the two topics intersect heavily but neither one is a
>>subtopic of the other.  Hence the need for ttwo groups with different
>>topics.
 
Totally agree there!
 
>Bzzt.  If the music is an integral part of the rave experience, as it is, then
>it should be discussed on alt.rave, or else alt.rave will digress into all the
>other rave non-music topics...
 
So? I'd rather just discuss techno and not worry about how it fits into
the rave experience.
 
>Really, I think the best way to solve all this:
>
>bpm-request@andrew.cmu.edu
>Subject: Subscribe
 
I'll try that. But other bpm subscribers already think a techno group
would be a good idea.
 
And since this thread can't seem to shake alt.rave, I wonder what a little
r.m.i influence will do to it!
 
--Eric
From: moon!cyberden!jwlhyfer@well.sf.ca.us
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: proposal for Alt.Vampyres
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 13:55:10 PDT
Organization: Indescribable Creations

Come with us. Leave behind this mortal fear of darkness.Join the night.Be 
one of us.Embrace the darkness.....

The children of the night,who are many in number, could use this group to 
exchange writings on the subject, as well as information on
publications,film,research,and organizations devoted to this fascinating 
part of the collective unconscious...The popularity of the Anne Rice 
novels,the number of organizations which exist,and the amount of books 
which have always been written on the subject of vampyres,and continue to 
be written,suggest a high level of interest.It could be expanded to
Alt.Vampyres.Immortals, or Alt.Vampyres.Blood Cultists or something if 
that seems better.This subject seems to be a prevocative and even
obsessive one for many people..I think it warrants consideration and 
implementation..Thank you.

__________________________________________________________________________
   |       /         |\
   | H E   \ Y B E R |/ E N       [ moon!cyberden!jwlhyfer@well.sf.ca.us ]
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.dreams,alt.paranormal,alt.oobe,alt.consciousness
From: gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo)
Subject: Re: pre-CFV for OBE newsgroup
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 00:50:25 GMT

In <1992Aug14.171804.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu> jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:

> the discussion seems to have ended, so...
> if no one has any objections, i move we get this road on the show.
> Gary has offered to collect votes, but i will do it unless he or someone else
> really wanted to.

It's fine with me if Jude collects and tallies the votes, but I'd like to
remind everyone that I had indicated I would put out the actual call for
votes, so I think it would have been appropriate for him to have contacted
me if he wanted to do it, so we could agree on what form that call would take.

> ...again, here are the choices:
>
> A: alt.consciousness
> B: alt.consciousness.altered-states
> C: alt.consciousness.out-of-body
> D: alt.dreams
> E: alt.paranormal
> F: alt.paranormal.out-of-body
> G: alt.out-of-body

Wait a moment.  I disagree that these are the choices.  The thing I see us to
be voting on are what we want to call a new newsgroup whose charter will make
it clear that its purpose is to discuss out-of-body experiences.  Thus, there
is no reason, in my mind, to offer the choices Jude labels A, D, or E, since
these are existing newsgroups.  And I don't recall any mention during the dis-
cussion period of choice B - this one comes completely out of left field, as
far as I'm concerned.  What does it have to do with OBEs??  Yes, we could con-
sider OBEs as one form of altered states of consciousness, but then we'd have
to open the discussion to that broader subject.  Maybe it would be good to
have such a newsgroup, but I feel we shouldn't mix it up with our current
project of getting an OBE newsgroup going.

My suggestion is that the vote choices be only:

	1. alt.consciousness.out-of-body
	2. alt.paranormal.out-of-body
	3. alt.out-of-body

I move that we continue the discussion long enough to let us decide on whether
we're all agreed on this list or some other.  I don't mind if Jude issues the
call for votes, but I'd like that call to represent a consensus of opinion on
what it is we're voting on.

Thanks.

Gary
--
    Gary S. Trujillo                            gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us
Somerville, Massachusetts              {wjh12,bu.edu,spdcc,ima,cdp}!gnosys!gst
From: checker@acf5.NYU.EDU (checker)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: proposal: alt.graphics.vga-programming
Keywords: vga graphics programming
Date: 17 Aug 92 02:46:05 GMT
Organization: New York University


Considering the ammount of traffic in rec.games.programmer and the
comp.graphics hierarchy that focuses on VGA programming, I think an alt
group devoted to the subject would be a good idea.

VGA stands for Video Graphics Array.  It is a video card card used by
a large percentage of IBM compatible PCs.  It is pretty quirky, but it
certainly has market share going for it.  Anyway, because of its
popularity, it generates a large number of posts in many different
newsgroups, from comp.lang.c++ to rec.games.programmer.  A group devoted
to programming the card would relieve a lot of that (inappropriate)
traffic.

While one could argue that these types of questions belong in
comp.sys.ibm.programmer or some other ibm group, they don't fit very
well.  Programming the VGA card consists of both hardware manipulation
and software manipulation, so VGA questions tend to get bumped around
and flamed.  While I know a good deal about the card, I'm not about to
answer a question posted to comp.lang.c++ or some other hardware
independent group about it.  I think there are a number of others who
feel similarly.  Likewise, folks who have questions see others get
flamed no matter where they ask, and simply don't bother.

In summary, I think alt.graphics.vga-programming will make a lot of
people happy: those who want to know more about the VGA card will have a
place to ask, and those who don't want to hear about it will have fewer
messages to flame.

I'm not sold on the name, so if you can think of a better one, let's
hear it.

Chris
From: tjw@vms.cis.pitt.edu (TJ Wood)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: Alt.feminism
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:11:03 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <H18RPB3w165w@dogear.spk.wa.us>, bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick) writes:

> I thought that soc.feminism would handle the topics expressed in this. Do
> we really need an Alt.feminism AND soc.feminism?

Did my article get truncated?  I gave a fairly detailed explanation of why
I agreed to create "alt.feminism".  The two paragraphs that summed it up
were:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
*In the case of "alt.feminism", I was originally opposed to it and told my
*customer so.  I was then persuaded by the arguments presented above and
*agreed to carry it here if it was discussed in alt.config.  I don't believe
*that this group is a duplication of effort or another flame group.  If I
*did I'd tell those requesting this group to "take a hike" in a minute!

*What concerns me more about moderation (and was the very issue that caused
*me to agree to this group) is the fact that "moderators" are entering into
*the "debate".  You can't be an objective moderator if you have a vested
*interest in the debate.  The moderation suffers when this happens.  At that
*point I'd rather see no moderation.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

When first contacted I asked the same question.  Why would anyone need 2
groups?  

I explained this in greater detail in my article.  Perhaps you didn't get
all of it.  In any event, I'd like to resolve this as soon as possible and
get something set up.  I need to be spending more time on getting software
ready for the next term.

Terry
-- 
        INTERNET: tjw+@pitt.edu         BITNET: TJW@PITTVMS
"Laugh while you can, Monkey Boy!"                        - Lord "John" Warfin
"There can be only one!"                                  - The Highlander
"There should have been only one. I want my money back!"  - Terry
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: pwh@bradley.bradley.edu (Pete Hartman)
Subject: Re: Why Alt.Music techno? Read this....
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 01:11:36 GMT

In <1992Aug19.233832.7880@csus.edu> arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Arthur Chandler) writes:
>  Seems to me that the main reason for starting any new group should be
>"is there no proper forum for the ideas and issues you want to discuss?"

Yes, indeed.  However, the answer to that question is "NO.  There *is*
a proper forum for these ideas, and it's alt.rave or rec.music.industrial
depending on how hard-core you want to be" (if you bother to read the charter,
rmi is gracious enough to allow discussion of "techno", even citing Kraftwerk
by name).

>Now, alt. rave certainly has a lot of techno-issues.  And I won't
>unsubscribe if we get alt.music techno (though the SF Raves list is so
>good, maybe I would...). Anyway, there are some ideas I would like to
>get into that I would feel awkward about raising in alt.rave.  Such as:
>   1) Does techno music preclude the idea of ballads? Does the synthetic
>nature of the music mean that we'll never have anything like (say)
>Coltrane's "Naima"?
>   2) I bet I have the world's largest unwanted collection of Moby's
>"Go." (Though I think Moby's excellent).  I want to gripe in this forum
>about the proliferation of identical mixes on different compilations.
>   3) What other performing arts (besides raves :<)   ) use techno? I
>guarantee it's coming to the movies.  And -- get ready for this -- I
>belong to a group of jugglers who use techno for some of our routines.
>More than any other music, techno ......

Why are these "awkward" to bring up in alt.rave?  Have you tried and been
shouted down?  I don't recall any of these topics, and I certainly would
encourage their discussion in alt.rave.

>   Well, I'd like to finish this discussion in alt.music.techno.
>   Do yourself a favor!  Keep me from lathering up the middle of
>alt.rave with irrelevant essays!

I won't be doing myself a favor by creating ONE MORE NEWSGROUP that doesn't
really accomplish anything but further fracturing the namespace.

>	On a more serious note, a vote for alt.music.  techno is a vote
>for recognition of techno as a legitimate music form.

This is silly.  Either you think it's legit or you don't.  There's no
"voting" process.

>   One more analogy. My wife plays in a symphony orchestra.  She loves
>playing ballet music.  She doesn't particularly enjoy ballets. But in
>her world, the performance of and discussion about ballet music can be
>done with or without the dance component. Isn't this situation just like
>the relation between raves and techno?

What's wrong with "alt.music.ballet" which can be used to discuss both the
dance AND the music?  Why does everything have to be subdivided into neat
little segregated chunks?  What *good* reason is there to subdivide aspects
of techno music, besides "you want to"?
-- 
Pete Hartman		       Bradley University	pwh@bradley.bradley.edu
     Buy you books, and buy you books, and all you do is eat the covers...
Xref: sparky alt.config:5195 alt.rave:2394
From: bbehlen@soda.Berkeley.EDU (Vitamin B (Brian Behlendorf))
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.rave
Subject: Re: REC.MUSIC TECHNO - yes (Re: proposal for ALT.MUSIC.TECHNO - no)
Date: 17 Aug 1992 19:36:19 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug17.170543.501@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> steve@cse.fau.edu (Steve Smith) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.151111.18797@javelin.sim.es.com> pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown) writes:
>>FERRRRRGET IT!  Way too specific.  If people are going to start ranking on me
>>for posting a wailing diva or ambient review in the newly created
>>rec.music.techno, then I won't even post the reviews that DO fit into the
>>category.  You all are giving way to much credit to the techno idea when it
>>isn't really popular in major markets anymore.  If anything should be 
>>created, it should be rec.music.rave.
>
>Huh?  You must be one of those strange people who thinks techno is subtopic
>of rave.  

Huh?  You must be one of those strange people who thinks that the only music
played at raves is wham-bam-side-splitting-biohazardous-"hardcore"-140bpm
techno, when really a wide variety of stuff is heard; deep house, trance,
brain-melting (but not fast or edgy) acid, tribal rhythms, hell, even the
"Blue Room" was dropped into the middle of a relatively fast set last week
at the Psychic TV gig... people have also started bringing drums to raves
to play along with the music.  I don't know if you'd allow any of those types
of music to be on rec.music.techno.

I predict, if the group gets created (and who sent the .ctl message, anyways?)
the first major thread will be: "But is it hard enough? No!"

>I think the two topics intersect heavily but neither one is a
>subtopic of the other.  Hence the need for ttwo groups with different
>topics.  

Bzzt.  If the music is an integral part of the rave experience, as it is, then
it should be discussed on alt.rave, or else alt.rave will digress into all the
other rave non-music topics...

Really, I think the best way to solve all this:

bpm-request@andrew.cmu.edu
Subject: Subscribe


It's relatively low volume, but if people start joining maybe we can get 
more topics discussed...

	Brian
From: jim@american.edu (Jim McIntosh)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: Robert Anton Wilson
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:31:53 GMT
 <1992Jul30.083903.12671@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
 <1992Jul31.163956.32261@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk>
 <1992Jul31.172619.703@midway.uchicago.edu>
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center

In article <1992Jul31.172619.703@midway.uchicago.edu>, elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu
(Ellen Keyne Seebacher) says:
>>If your system picks it up, its called:  bit.listserv.fnord-l
>
>I might point out that the official description (in the article
>headers, presumably furnished by the gateway maintainers) is "New Ways
>of Thinking list,"...

That title was obtained from the list "header":

* New Ways of Thinking List
*
*  OWNER=  salsbury@acsu.buffalo.edu (Patrick G. Salsbury)
*
*  This   list  is for the  discussion   and  implementation of  various  views
*  presented by such minds as those of Robert Anton Wilson, Timothy Leary, John
*  Lilly, Antero Alli, and Christopher Hyatt.
*
*  The human species has gotten past the point of leisurely evolving along. Our
*  technology and science are advancing  at an ever-accelerating rate, and this
*  is, of necessity, going to effect the way we live and think.
*
*  We are quickly  developing  a  need for  an  ideological  mutation,  a quick
*  reassessing of the way  in which  we view life, and a  restructuring of that
*  view to integrate the advancing knowledge and technology that is developing.
*
*  Nowadays, ideas are  changing faster than ever.  We can't just "evolve" over
*  thousands of years. Look back at the 1950's, or the  '60's, how much have we
*  changed since then?
*
*  We're working to develop  new  ideas and  philosophies for dealing  with the
*  "new world." We, as a species, don't have the  time or  the room anymore for
*  outdated, closed-minded views like prejudice, bigotry,  sexism, conservative
*  religious views, etc.
*
*  We are interested in the prospect of consciousness expansion and finding new
*  ways of thinking for OURSELVES,  we are not  content to just follow the rest
*  of the herd like sheep. It's time to  take control of our  OWN lives, and to
*  act responsibly in making the world a better place to live.
---
Jim McIntosh (jim@american.edu) (Gateway Maintainer)
The American University
Washington DC 20016-8019 USA
Newsgroups: alt.config