HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: adis@adis.msk.su ( )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: SUPERMOTORCYCLES "DNEPR-11/16" FOR SALE ! HURRY to the BUY !L
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 92 10:29:10 -0500
Distribution: world
Organization: KIAE
Reply-To: adis@adis.msk.su

---
>>> ATISNET-GATEWAY: NETCat (Release 3.04/26Apr92) <<<

MsgID: SCHs00987-21209ne0.HAV/58
 From: Andrey Shitikov <@KI.SHAV>
  Org: KIEV
 Lang: ENG.


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Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: The Swedenfinns seek official support from Finland
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 11:20:02 GMT

[ Article crossposted from soc.culture.nordic ]
[ Author was Jarmo Ryyti ]
[ Posted on Thu, 17 Dec 1992 06:57:11 GMT ]

An other attempt with better english...)

: This is a translation of the latest issue of Ruotsinsuomalainen (Swedenfinn)
:  of the 10.12.1992.
: 
: FOR THE MINORITY STATuS IS SEEKED SUPPORT FROM FINLAND (was the headline)
: 
: For the aim of the Swedenfinns to attain an ethnic and lingual minority
: status is seeked now official support from Finland.
: 
: The issue is taken on the agenda of The Committee of the Immigration and
: Refugee issues set by Finland's cabinet, (Suomen valtioneuvoston asettama
: pakolais- ja siirtolaisasiain neuvosto), who gave the declaration of
: the minority status made by the swedenfinnish organisations for the Finnish
: governement last friday. (4.12.92) The Committee of the Immigration and
: Refugee issues for their part received the proclamation of the minority
  status during the  Roots in Finland-festivities last august. 
: 
: According to the committee, Finland shall include the Swedenfinnish
  aim for the minority status into  the issues in official  negotiations
  between Finland and Sweden.
: 
: On the communication made by the committee is reminded prime minister Carl
: Bildt charactrazing the situation of the swedenfinns. Bild has given
  a statement that due to a long common history of the countries,
   finnish settlements in Sweden and great numbers of swedenfinns give
  a right to give a special status for the swedenfinns.
: 
: 
: Ps.
: My comments,
: 
: Very difficult to translate, because of byreucratical text!
 You should notice that Carl Bildt is a concervative. During the social
  democratical time swedish
: governements aimed only to assimilate swedenfinns by all means.
: As the peak of all swedish faschism Ms. Anita Gradin declared publicly
: "Sweden is monolingual and remains monolingual". She is a prominent
: politician in Sweden, normally you heard such speeches in South-Africa
: and in Nazi-Germany but Sweden is no exeption. Her speeches however did
: not rise international publicity. Source for the latest statement is
: an issue of Etel{-Suomen Sanomat, a respectful newspaper in Finland,
: issue of 11.12.92
: 
: Down with swedish faschism and oppression of the finns in Sweden!
: regards,
: jarmo ryyti
: 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,misc.education
From: rel@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: University of Utah (Logan) Address??
Date: 14 Dec 92 09:41:29 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

I was wondering if someone could pleeze post me the e-mail address for the
University of Utah in Logan. I'm trying to contact a friend who is presently
doing his PhD there.

Any information greatly appreciated....

Thanx in advance....


Rob..
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
From: tsiout%thailand@cs.yale.edu (Dimitris Tsioutsias)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: War in Skopia ?
Date: 16 Dec 1992 14:31:06 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: terminator.ai.cs.yale.edu

Can someone of those that support the view of Greece been sucked into 
a possible war in Skopje, unless UN or the international community
recognizes Skopje, tell us where they base their conclusions? Why
Greece should be involved into a war where she has no reason to intervene
and more than that, why the recognition of Skopje with the name of
"Macedonia" will prevent such a war, while the denial of such a recognition
won't? Can someone please analyze here, because I am very frustrated
by the media's "thoughtful analysis" to include Greece into such a possible 
scenario.

->dimitris

Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: Pronounciation of Greek names...
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:34:39 GMT

michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos)  writes:


>... all Greeks now sound like they are from Athens.

 Megaleeeee !!!

>Michael
>                                                                                            
 Panos
From: ada612@huxley.anu.edu.au (Avery D Andrews)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Pronuncation of Greek names in Homer's Odyssey
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:35:46 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.2.12

In article <1g79ahINN6ef@frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk>,
  kd@doc.ic.ac.uk (Kostis Dryllerakis) writes:

  >	So the controversy will remain live. For us greeks, we would like
  >to believe that our language is not only close to ancient greek to its 
  >symbols but also to its sounds. I beleive that I speak for all of the fellow


I haven't noticed that the `traditionalist' view (that classical
Greek pronunciation  was pretty much like Modern Greek) has many
non-Greek adherents, which suggests that its basis is more emotional
than scholarly or scientific.  And 2500 years is a *long* time for
the pronunciation of a language to remain essentially unchanged.
And what is the traditionalist position on Greek pronunciation in
the vicinity of 700 BC, which is around when the Homeric poems seem
to be currently thought to have been written down?

Avery.Andrews@anu.edu.au
From: baysan@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Okan Baysan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: continuation on Cyprus, ENOSIS (union of Cyprus with Greece)
Keywords: EOKA, ENOSIS, PALIKARIA
Date: 20 Dec 92 02:01:08 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <199212190522.AA18077@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com> c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
 
>You keep speaking about ENOSIS. How'bout the TRNC's desire to unite
>with Turkiye.

Just show me a single documented proof that the Turkish Republic of 
Northern Cyprus has such desires. Enosis (union of Cyprus with Greece
is a well known and well established fact that forms the roots of the
Cyprus issue.

> Well, Sorry, Okan, I can't accept it. I just CAN't. 

It's hard to swallow certain facts isn't it Spiro? Not my problem.

>What I point out here is that the Greek Cypriots I met had no illusions, 
>dreams of enosis, or megali idea in their (well planted) heads. They were
>Greek Cypriots, not Greeks. 

You cannot distort the facts by just pointing out the opinion of a few
Greek Cypriots. Just listen to their elected leaders who represent 
their opinion and you will be all set.

>Yes and No. I've demonstrated willingness to listen, be objective, rational,
>and free of any prejudice.

But somehow you just cannot understand that the Turkish Cypriots do not 
want to come under Greek/Greek Cypriot rule ever.

>The choice is yours.

I knew that. I will do my best to help strengthen the roots of the Turkish
Republic of Northern Cyprus, and at the same time, continue to offer the 
Greek Cypriot side my good will and genuine intentions to come to a 
peaceful and just agreement which will secure the safety and security of 
the Turkish Cypriot people, recognise their independence and sovereignty,
and allow them to live free from fear and Enosis nightmares forever. 

>
>Spiros Triantafyllopoulos
>

Cheers,
Okan Baysan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: gavrila@imhfhp16.epfl.ch (Spyros Gavrilakis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Bits and pieces
Date: 18 Dec 92 06:04:54 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne



<<A river of money coming from the Community is going to
pour into Greece.>> Premier C. Mitsotakis
(LNQ)

--------------

Portugal, the second poorest member of the EC, lifted restrictions
on the short-term movement of capital two weeks ahead of the date
agreed by the EC.
(FT)

Greece will keep the restrictions until mid-94.
[It probably means that the drachma will be devalued quite a bit
during the next 18 months.]

--------------

Albania wants to join NATO. Its application has been given a
lukewarm reception. (FT)

--------------
sg
From: wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Edward Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Drivel in the spirit of Arxid
Date: 18 Dec 92 17:40:59 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.



Some cretin writes:

 
>  The people of Macedonian affirm that:

> 1) The ancient Macedonians were a distinct European people,
>    conscious and proud of their nationality, their customs, their
>    language, and their name. The same applies to their descendants
                                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^
>    today.
     ^^^^^^




   God, not again!  For Pete's sake, why is it that some Westerners
   of Eastern European descent (American Croats, Aussie Macedonians,
   North American Estonians, etc.) are so bloody nationalistic and
   chauvinistic and plain ignorant???  What a load of shit!
   No, wait, aren't you the descendants of the Pharaohs?  Better
   decide soon...

-- Eduard Wiener
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: msg7038@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michalis  Syrimis)
Subject: Re: do settlers get to vote
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 01:08:22 GMT

Just a few comments to make, on Besimes' posting:

EOKA 1963-74:  What exactly you have in mind here?
EOKA was active between 1955-59, during the independence struggle 
against England.  
During the intercommunal conflicts between 1963-67, there was no EOKA as 
such...

EOKA B' was formed in 1972, and it was dealing only with killing
Greek Cypriots, (policemen, presidential quards...).

Have you ever heard of Turkish and Greek Cypriots killed by 
Mr Denktash's organization TMT between 1963-74.  I 'll mention
the ones I know:
Derbis Kavazoglou, Turkish Cypriot,and Misiaoulns, a Greek cypriot

which were union members of PEO believing in the friendship 
between the two communities.

Just these for now.  

Review your sources (??), so that you won't have to 
waste your breath.

-- 
Michalis Syrimis
University of Illinois
Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: ccc@cs.toronto.edu ("Christina C. Christara")
Subject: Ellnvika Nea 12-12-92
Keywords: kala vea
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 12 Dec 92 18:46:47 GMT

Apo topikous Ellnvokavadikous sta8mous akousa oti
n EOK apofasise va emmeivei stnv apofasn tns Lissabwvas.
Dev bre8nke sxnma gia to ovoma,
alla n apofasn tns mn avagvwrisns paramevei.

O Mntsotakns ekave dnlwseis oti n EOK sumparistatai
stnv Ellada me eviaia politikn. Episns egive mia kaln
dnlwsn gia tov Papavdreou oti ki autos bon8nse
mesw tns summetoxns tou stnv suvodo twv Sosialistikwv
kommatwv 2 meres priv sto Edimbourgo.

Dev ta epibebaiwsa me tnv Fwvn tns Ellados.

Kosmioi pavngurismoi, please.

X. Xrnstara
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:11620 sci.classics:1171
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,sci.classics
Subject: Re: Pronounciation of Greek names...
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:38:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-8298v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 


>By the way, Greek netters seem to have some ideological reason
>to believe that their native language is very similar to
>classical Greek. In practise I've had a lot of troubles when

 I think that there is some confusion here between 'language' and
pronounciation. The language is extremely similar, especially if one
compares late hellenistic period Greek (circa 1 a.d.) with modern
Greek. It is much easier for me as a modern Greek to read the New
Testament (1950 years old), that it is for an english-speaking person to
read Chaucher (a modern piece of work, by comparison).

 The pronounciation changed a lot. But, again, changes since the late
hellenistic period are minor compared to the changes to English since
half that long ago. In general, it is agreed that Greek pronounciation
has changed very little since 1000ad.

 In fact, as recently as a few decades ago, a number of regional
dialects used syntactical and phonological features of corresponding
ancient Greek dialects (in mountainous northern Laconia, for example,
where the ancient Doric dialect survived practically intact).
Unfortunately, after WWII, control of education was taken away from the
local village/parish level, and all Greeks now sound like they are from
Athens. Only recently did Greeks realise what a terrible waste of
valuable cultural resources that was.

>pronouncing Greek names in the classical way, which is usual
>for Finns (even tourists without any classical education).
>I was unable to find my way to Herakleion before I learned
>to call it "Iraklio".

 But what is the 'Classical Way'? This subject started with a question
on the pronunciation of 'Circee'. All english educated people know that
this is pronounced 'Sir-see'. Yet, everyone who expressed an opinion on
this group so far has agreed that the right pronounciation is 'Kir-kee'.
As for "Herakleion', most americans would pronounce it 'He-ra-KLEI-on',
because the anglisezed word does not carry the accent mark, which makes
the classical prounanciation 'He-RA-klei-on'.

According to J.T. Pring's comments which I posted a few days ago:

Both the Eta (H) and the Epsilon-iota (EI) had become I by early
byzantine times  --> hi-RA-kli-on

The initial h dissapeared by the fourth century AD --> i-RA-kli-on

The final 'n' began dropping out of use in local dialects sinse
Byzantine times, and is now becoming rare, but many people still use it,
in fact pre-1980 road signs and maps usually read "HRAKLEION".

So, one's classical pronounciation of 'Herakleion' would have been as
much understood in 1992ad as it would have been understood in 400ad. Not
bad, I think.


Michael
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: turk-o-phonics
Date: 16 Dec 1992 10:24:14 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Besime,

I'd *greatly* appreciate if you abandon turk-o-phonics as a method of
debate.  Not that I particularily care about it, but I have little
respect for argument-less teenagers pretending to 'fullfil their
intellectual and emotional needs' on USENET by thinking they can
intimidate people by molesting their names...

Having been in this country for 10 years (and having dealt with an almost
infinite number of idiotic teenagers working as supermarket cashiers,
all making cute remarks about Tri*'s name) I pretty much have learned to
ignore comments regarding Tri*. 

If you wish to be classified as an idiotic teenager with an internet 
account, please do continue. If you wish to be treated like an adult,
on the other hand, i'd suggest a bit of respect towards other people's
attributes, be it religion, hair color, weight, or name. 

Regards,

Spiros
--
chicken sig unavailable today; i'm fasting   c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: PRONUNCATION OF GREEK NA
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:48:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-8298v.32bis
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 



>I haven't noticed that the `traditionalist' view (that classical
>Greek pronunciation  was pretty much like Modern Greek) has many
>non-Greek adherents, which suggests that its basis is more emotional
>than scholarly or scientific.  And 2500 years is a *long* time for
>the pronunciation of a language to remain essentially unchanged.

 Very true. In fact, when I was in College (here in the states), the
teacher gave us a demonstration of what the Shakespeare and Chaucher
really sounded like, only a few centuries ago. No-one understood a word,
even the native speakers of English (well, in all fairness, they were
americans :-) ).

 Actually the 'traditionalist' view in Greece (if traditionalist = what
students get taught in high schools) is that the pronounciation of Greek
was very varied during Classical times, and that even Greeks had hard
times understanding each other from time to time. The current
pronounciation was formulated during the Hellinistic and Roman years,
when Greek became the common language, therefore losing its local
varieties, and becoming somewhat simplified in the process. I think that
the comments by J.T.Pring that I posted earlier, also agree to some
degree with that theory, although he suggests a far more gradual change.

>And what is the traditionalist position on Greek pronunciation in
>the vicinity of 700 BC, which is around when the Homeric poems seem
>to be currently thought to have been written down?

 Actually, the homeric epics are a very valuable resource, because they
were written in syllabic form [Oddessy=12 Heliad=14, right? correct me
if I am wrong, which I probably am], so they can give us a hint as to
which suggested pronounciations 'fit', and which ones don't. It is easy
to imagine that there was a lot of evolution in pronounciation from the
700bc Homeric Greek to the 400bc Athenian Greek, just as there must have
been some change from 400bc greek to 1992ad Greek.

Michael
                                                                                                       
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: GREK TAKEOUT (Article on Macedonia in the "New Republic," Dec. 21)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 02:43:20 GMT

sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:

>Why do I get the impression that 9 out 10 articles from Greek posters
>make me sick?

 Well, in such cases stop torturing yourself by reading scg.
 If 9 out of 10 articles make you sick, what is then the reason of reading scg?
 Do you enjoy being sick?

>-- 
>Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se

 Dr. Panos Tamamidis
From: pavlovic-milan@yale.edu (Milan Pavlovic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: H.N.I.N. - EDITION 3  1/2
Date: 12 Dec 92 16:17:37 GMT
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

In article <1992Dec11.192553.19163@zooid.guild.org> Chrys Pelegris <chrysp@zooid.guild.org> writes:
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>                                H.N.I.N.
>                  Hellenic News & Information Network
>
>                       " Greek News from Abroad "
>                  Edition 3 - Thursday December 10/92
>
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

   Hellenic news at last!  Chrys!  Thank you for posting these!  Keep up the
good work and send us more news like this, I love this stuff!

Regards,
Milan
===============================================================================
		M A C E D O N I A.....G R E E K   F O R E V E R
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: vkb57@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: GREK TAKEOUT (Article on Macedonia in the "New Republic," Dec. 21)
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 01:27:47 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.174244.12978@enea.se> sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
>Chrys Pelegris <chrysp@zooid.guild.org> writes:
>>    Hahah.. so now, Greece should take the word of Rob Kaplan that they
>>    have no territorial aggressions towards Greece?  No one can make such
>>    absolute statements - no one knows what the future holds for any nation.
>
>That's right. Bomb Athens now! Before they invade Turkey, Macedonia,
>Albania and whatever comes in their way.
>
>Why do I get the impression that 9 out 10 articles from Greek posters
>make me sick?
>--
It must be a quick-acting computer virus that those articles carried.  I have
had a bad feeling in my stomach too,  after reading them.

>Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
Vasil Babamov
From: gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: PHARAOH-MACEDONIANS TOO?
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:20:36 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <10183.3248.uupcb@factory.com> michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos)  writes:
>
>
>Metajh mas omws, isws exei bash ayto. H lejh 'Gyftos' proerxetai apo
>thn lejh 'Aigyptios'.
>
>Gyftoi, isws einai. Makedones omws den einai.
>
>Mixalhs

 Alhtheia, oi gyftoi ti glwssa miloun; Nomiza oti exoun endoeurwpa'i'kh
 proeleush, stenh ths sanskritikhs.

 Ws pros to onoma, eixa dei sthn ellhnikh tv guftous na lene oti kanonika
 prepei na legontai Athigganoi (tsigkanoi koinws). Alloi laoi tous lene
 Roma. Oi idioi pws apokalountai; Kanenas ellhnas athigganos akouei;

 Ti mileti kai auto! Nomades kai ksero pswmi :-))).