HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alester@gate.os.ncsu.edu (Avie)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Separatism
Date: 2 Oct 92 01:10:35 GMT
Reply-To: alester@gate.os.ncsu.edu (Avie)
Organization: North Carolina State University
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at the 
              North Carolina State University Computing Center. 
              The opinions expressed are those of the user 
              and not necessarily those of NCSU.


In article <1992Oct1.134411.19001@walter.cray.com>, sonic@cray.com (Curtis L. Swanson) writes:
> Although, I will admit your last question about the "separate but 
> equal" is intriguing.  Could you elaborate?

Shoot, I go to State; I can clue you in.

The black students at Carolina would like a freestanding cultural center
to be erected.  In fact, they're demanding it--they want definite plans
by mid-November.  Key members of the student group include many black
athletes--every black player from the football team and at least one
from the basketball team is in the movement.

The existing student center is outdated, and the African-American
cultural center simply doesn't have enough room for the current black
student population.  The students won't "settle" for a cultural
center that's a part of another facility; it must be freestanding.

It's a TOUGH decision to make, and there's a lot of pressure from
both sides.  On the one hand, the black athletes have threatened to
boycott games if plans for the cultural center fall through.  Some
have noted that this is unlikely to occur, though--no player wants
to jeopardize his scholarship or future draft status.

On the other hand, no one wants to see a return to the "Jim Crow"
days of separate but equal facilities.  Some favor a multicultural
center, as opposed to a strictly African-American center.

The movement has attracted a lot of attention--filmmaker Spike Lee
recently addressed the movement at the "Dean Dome", and Michael
Jordan's mother, who manages a foundation of some sort, offered to
pay for the cost of the freestanding center.

The chancellor finally appointed a panel of noted blacks, and left
the final decision in their hands.  Among the panel members are
Jordan's mother, former Charlotte mayor Harvey Gantt, and several
others (whose names escape me.)

Locally, debate has been intense.  At one end of the spectrum, I read a 
letter in the Nuisance Observer, I mean News & Observer, in which
an African-American wanted not only a cultural center, but also a
black cafeteria, a black infirmary, and so on.  In Wednesday's
Technician (the student newspaper), a student claimed that it was
racist to have such organizations as the Black Engineers (since the
Anglo-Saxon or Caucasian Engineers wouldn't be accepted) and questioned
why it's considered pride when blacks wear "Black Pride" shirts, but
why the same would be considered racism from a white person.

I'm still kinda undecided; what do y'all think?
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: radams@BNR.CA (Rodney Adams)
Subject: Re: t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Reply-To: "Rodney Adams" <RADAMS@BNR.CA>
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ltd.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:55:42 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.110244.20823@tfs.com>, ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) 
commits the one unspoken sin among high-IQ societies:

|> Sorry. Personal experience, in comparison with observations of others,
|> says I Am More Intelligent Than Average. I think Stanford-Binet gives me
|> IQ = 163.5 (Wechsler 141). 

FYI, Stanford-Binet 164 IQ = Wechsler 160 IQ, which is at the 4-sigma level
(99.997 percentile).  Wechsler 141 IQ = Stanford-Binet 144 IQ, which is at
the 99.7 percentile (2.74 sigma).
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Rodney G. Adams
The opinions expressed above are not necessarily those of my employer.
As if you didn't already know that....
"A little inaccuracy sometimes saves tons of explanations." - Saki
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: t-- Re: t// t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 09:35:13 GMT

tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>
>gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes <something>;

>This item really had nothing to do with the previous posts, 
>but you no doubt want to connect it.  Your extreme measures 
>only serve to show your inherent bias against me.

You wanna know something weird, Tai? Life is infinitely plastic.
The only reason for perpetuating a 'bias' against you is that you
actively participate in reinforcing it. This is my point of view.
I will continuously treat you as you present yourself to me.

Be nice, I'll be nice. Be nasty, I'll be nasty. My psyche remembers
only grave hurts perceived to be deliberately inflicted, by a person
with no self-awareness that it causes me pain.

Yr Faithful Empath,
-ecsd
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 18:48:53 GMT

In article <1992Sep26.095235.29326@tfs.com> ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
>> ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>>}crawdad@fncent (Matt Crawford) writes:
>>}>
>>}>Although I must admit, I'm very dismayed
>>}>to find that the number of Ms that believe in astrology, crystal
>>}>power, and other newage sewage is not zero.
>>}
>>}Nope. It's at least 1, because I do.
>>}I do astrology, and I don't do half bad with it either.

I don't disbelieve in the possibility of things like
mental transference or the movement of astral bodies affecting
humans' actions or moods, but I find most examples of people
claiming to understand or use these laughable.  But then,
I'm very skeptical of people's claims about everything, due to
not only my experiences, but what I know about rationalization
and how the human brain works.  Due to that, I would probably
fit the role of a skeptic regarding people's practice of
astrology, or, for that matter, science and law.

I would be interested in hearing just exactly what you do
in a "reading", where charts and things originated, what
criteria is used for deciding what to do next, what conclusions
are reached, level of detail and specificity, etc..  Like
any art, ritual, or science, it's worth study as simply another
structured human behavior.  I also would be interested in
hearing how much variation there is among the practitioners'
methodologies.

GMS
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: N.O. Tai
Date: 2 Oct 92 23:44:59 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.004157.19126@ttinews.tti.com>, hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
> 
> In article <9209300600.AA01328@physd1.phys.vt.edu> oconnell@physd1.phys.vt.edu (Richard Oconnell) writes:
> }Hmm.  In a kind of zen fashion, I really like having Tai and N.O. Tai at the
> }same time.   
> 
> Is that anything like having no tea?

What is the sound of one Tai foaming?
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Subject: t-- Re: t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Originator: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:09:43 GMT


gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:

|> In article <1992Sep29.221718.10324@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
|> >
|> >This claim of joining MENSA for social reasons has always sounded hollow. 
|> 
|> It very well may sound hollow to you, but your personal opinion is,
|> but its very nature, subjective, and therefore irrelevant, you'll have
|> to agree.  

So, in your opinion, my personal opinion is irrelevant?  (Hmm, so is yours.)

|> Incidentally, since Mensa isn't an acronym, you know it isn't all caps.

Are we back to flaming punctuation/spelling/capitalization?  Sheesh!

|> It's kind of tiresome to see posts that are generated without much 
|> forethought.

I agree--please cut it out.

--
Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
NCSU Artificial Intelligence Lab
Centennial Campus
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas)
Subject: Re: t// Re: T/ Re: T% Thought for the Day
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 00:23:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.222538.10743@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>
>rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz) writes:
>|> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>|> 
>|> >People whose
>|> >intelligence is expressed in other ways that the ability to pass tests
>|> >need not apply -- even if accepted, 
>|> 
>|> Nonsense as written, and nonsense by any reasonable interpretation.
>|> 
>|> Some people (not you obviously) value the idea of a group that attempts
>|> as best as it can to select members from the segment of society that 
>|> is considered "intelligent".  That testing is an imperfect criterion for
>|> such selection is unfortunate, but being willing to live with that known
>|> imperfection says nothing about us as members.  Nor does it imply
>|> anything about our attitude to those whom we individually recognize as 
>|> intelligent despite scores that fall short of the statistical norms.
>
>"Richard":
>
>MENSA is simply one more dangerous way in which one group of people 
>attempt to set themselves apart -- and by 'apart' one invariably finds 
>'superior', since few people desire to join an organization which claims 
>its members are 'inferior' -- from the rest of the populace.  Of such 
>'harmless' little groups are born the divisive philosophies which feed 
>nationalism, racism, and separate us from each other.

Of course!  After all, we are all CLONES of one another, and we're all
EXACTLY ALIKE so therefore we should all BE alike.  What a great idea!
No individuality!  I love it!

-- 
John Mechalas                                          "I'm not an actor, but
mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu                                 I play one on TV."
Aero Engineering, Purdue University                     #include disclaimer.h
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Subject: t// Re: t// Re: T/ Re: T% Thought for the Day
Originator: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 02:43:13 GMT


rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz) writes:
|> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
|> 
|> >"Richard":
|> 
|> I've been quoted by Mr. Tai.  I wonder what that means?

What do you think it means?

|> >MENSA is simply one more dangerous way in which one group of people 
|> >attempt to set themselves apart -- and by 'apart' one invariably finds 
|> >'superior', since few people desire to join an organization which claims 
|> >its members are 'inferior' -- from the rest of the populace.  Of such 
|> >'harmless' little groups are born the divisive philosophies which feed 
|> >nationalism, racism, and separate us from each other.
|> 
|> I presume you feel the same way about the Boy Scouts, the DAR, the VFW,
|> the Elks, Moose, Water Buffalo, Shriners, your local Pop Warner football 
|> team, and certainly any religious groups.

Hardly; MENSA's admissions standards are the sole purpose of the organization.

|> Well, hell, let's just all be one happy family.  Let's all be exactly
|> the same.  Let's all be Scott Tai.  What a happy world it would be...

That would be a perfect world indeed.

--
Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
NCSU Artificial Intelligence Lab
Centennial Campus
From: Craig.Wagner@p2.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Craig Wagner)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Boston Mensa RG
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1992 16:03:20 -0500

I note in the NH Mensa newsletter an ad for your upcoming RG.  It lists many
activities (including babysitting) for kids.  I'd like to learn more. 
Specifically:  hasn't any thought been given to any age limits?  Any particular
babysitter/baby ratio?  I have kids who will have just turned two and three, and
haven't really seriously considered attending any gatherings because of them. 
Should I consider this one?
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: quam@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (David Quam)
Subject: Re: Muchow D.: About Nothing
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 20:33:22 GMT

In article <1992Sep22.182417.3334@iex.uucp> muchow@venus.iex.com (Don Muchow) writes:
>
>
>Here's a conundrum whose nature is clear to me; however, I have never
>heard a good explanation of how to resolve the obvious conflicts implied.
>
>A barber shaves everyone who does not shave him(or her)self, and does not
>shave anyone who does shave him(/her)self.
>
>There are no linguistic loopholes or other similar tricks here.  Now, the
>question is: Does the barber shave himself?
>
>I know there is some sort of logical fallacy here, or something like one, or
>perhaps this question is just a freak of nature.
>
>Does anyone have any answers?


(In the following argument, "himself" means "himself or herself")


Assume the premises are true.  Then ...


  Assume that the barber shaves himself.  But this leads to a contradiction,
  since the premises state that the barber "does not shave anyone who does 
  shave himself".  Therefore, the barber does not shave himself.

  Assume that the barber does not shave himself.  But this also leads to a
  contradiction, since the premises state that "the barber shaves everyone
  who does not shave himself".  Therefore, the barber does shave himself.

  Therefore, the barber shaves himself, AND the barber does not shave himself.
  This is a contradiction.  Therefore, the original premises are false.


Answer:  The original premises are false.
         There cannot exist such a barber.
                                             - David Quam


Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: jswthomp@milton.u.washington.edu (James Thompson)
Subject: Re: Famous Mensans
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 04:52:14 GMT

In article <BvGqr4.1yC@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> ksdavis@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Karleenus Schwartz Davis) writes:
>In article <1992Oct1.200742.24181@cs.ucla.edu> quam@hana.cs.ucla.edu (David Quam) writes:
>>
>>Try Isaac Asimov, who is (or used to be) the International Chair of MENSA.
>>
>
>Unless I have my facts skewed (which I admit I might), the case 
>is definitely USED TO BE, unless Mensa knows something about life
>after death that they haven't told us yet.
>
>-sz

Same goes for R. Buckminster Fuller.  Geena Davis, though, is live enough
for me.

Jim
From: crawdad@fncent (Matt Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Geneticism
Date: 6 Oct 92 23:28:38 GMT
Organization: FERMILAB, Batavia, IL

>From the keyboard of radams@BNR.CA (Rodney Adams):
>: By the way, I do consider homosexual relations ... a perversity.  Even 
>: casting religious beliefs aside, such relations are entirely unnatural, 
>: as they can never lead to offspring.  This does not cause me to hate such 
>: individuals, and indeed I have worked with and came to respect such an
>: individual, but the act itself I can see as nothing less than disgusting.
>: Why would anyone not born with such a genetic defect actually choose to 
>: commit such perversity?  I have even heard that some study showed that 
>: most people do have some homosexual experience sometime in their lives, 
>: but I can honestly say that I have never once had such a desire.

Hmmmm.  I could say much the same about watching television.  It's
unnatural, cannot lead to offspring, is disgusting, and most people
have done it.
				Matt
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: sonic@cray.com (Curtis L. Swanson)
Subject: Re: rec.org.high-iq.misc?
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:22:48 CDT

*
*I'm starting rec.org.wsfswdnnt for the new "We're So F***in Smart We
*Don't Need No Test" club.  I get to be king and tell everyone else
*what they can post.  Whaddaya' think?
*
*GMS

Great!!!  What are my first opinions????

Curt "I don't need to f***in think" Swanson


***  Curt Swanson  ***  sonic@romulus.cray.com  ***  IOTTMCO  *********
HOME:n - That mythical place where you can go and relax.......
I'd rather be in a coma.........
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: shrum@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Rick Shrum)
Subject: Re: t// Re: T/T: Statistics - rec.org.mensa most prolific posters!
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr, Calif.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:02:08 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.003234.14890@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>
>shrum@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Rick Shrum) writes:
>|> In article <1992Sep23.153523.26157@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>|> Well, I'm just doing my quarterly check to see if Scott Tai has gotten a
>|> life yet, and the answer is still a resounding NO! 
>|> Scotty, why have you chosen dissing MENSA your personal crusade? 
>|> Whats your next project, trying to get the NAACP to integrate?
>|> Sheesh dude, yer lacking.
>|> YEE-HAWWW!!!!!
>
>Well, I'm just doing my quarterly check to see if "Rick Shrum" has gotten a
>life yet, and the answer is still a resounding NO!
>Ricky, why have you chosen dissing SCOTT TAI your personal crusade?
>Whats your next project, trying to get MIKE STEINER to stop posting?
>Sheesh dude, yer lacking.
>YEE-HAWWW!!!!!
>
>--
>Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu


Scott,

Well, at least I see your speech patterns are improving!
Nah, dissing you ain't my personal crusade; more like a
hobby. Actually, I am genuinly (sp? - I'm no MENSAN!)
interested in why you hate MENSA so. No BS; really. Why?
And why do you carry in on for so long? I care.
Get MIKE STEINER to quit posting? No way, I enjoy a good
Steiner Liner ( ;^]   to MS ).
Assphinctersayswhat?

YEE-HAWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!


                            R ****
                             I
                              C
                          **** K
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: t// Re: T/ Re: T% Thought for the Day
Date: 2 Oct 92 23:43:43 GMT

In article <BvGs4L.Ivx@world.std.com>, rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz) writes:
> 
> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
> 
> >In article <1992Sep29.222538.10743@ncsu.edu>, tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
> >> 
> >> rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz) writes:
> >> 
> >> MENSA is simply one more dangerous way in which one group of people 
> >> attempt to set themselves apart -- and by 'apart' one invariably finds 
> >> 'superior', since few people desire to join an organization which claims 
> >> its members are 'inferior' -- from the rest of the populace.  Of such 
> >> 'harmless' little groups are born the divisive philosophies which feed 
> >> nationalism, racism, and separate us from each other.
> 
> >There is only one word that adequately describes what you wrote.  That
> >word is "bullshit."
> 
> No, Mike there are many such words.  The one you chose is merely the most
> efficient one.  :-)

But all the other words seem to be so, so, so... inadequate.
From: Craig.Wagner@p2.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Craig Wagner)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Geneticism
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1992 10:16:11 -0500

On 10/5/92, Rodney Adams said something, prompting this incredibly noteworthy
response: 

  RA> ... Homophobes are those who hate or fear homosexuals...

Two points:

1:  One who "hate(s)" homosexuals (or homosexuality) would be a misohomosexual. 
It's a different root entirely.

2:  In conventional usage, a homophobe is one who fears either homosexuals _or_
the possibility of one's own homosexuality.  There need be no hatred or fear of
homosexuals in order for one to be a homophobe.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com ("Johnson")
Subject: Re: point of mensa?
Reply-To: johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Wireless Enterprises, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:11:30 GMT

In article <QFJX978#Q@linac.fnal.gov>, crawdad@fncent (Matt Crawford) writes:
=)>=)}crawdad@fncent (Matt Crawford) writes:
=)>=)}>Although I must admit, I'm very dismayed
=)>=)}>to find that the number of Ms that believe in astrology, crystal
=)>=)}>power, and other newage sewage is not zero.
=)
=)'"Johnson"' writes:
=)>Because it reduces your opinion of Mensa, or because you had hoped to have
=)>your personal opinions confirmed by a consensus of smart people?  
=)
=)Neither.  The fact that so many people who cooperate in their own
=)delusion qualify for Mensa lowers my opinion of the standards Mensa
=)applies.  ("Lowers" with respect to what I imagined before I joined.)
=)Or it could be that the population that Mensa selects its two
=)percent* from is a lot more idiotic than I ever thought possible.

I would say, then, that "Neither" is an incorrect response.  It reduces your
opinion of Mensa, or at least one aspect of it.  I also note your persistent
use of terms such as "delusion" and "idiotic" in referring to certain
opinions which conflict with yours.
=)
=)> A key question to ask here, to find a clue to your open-mindedness,
=)> is: Does this finding make you reconsider your opinions, or dismiss
=)> Mensa as a group of cranks?
=)
=)"It is important to keep an open mind, but not so open that your
=)brains fall out."  I don't consider Mensa a group of cranks.  The
=)newage-sewage subscribers seem to me to be a very small minority
=)within Mensa.  As I said above, the thing that surprised me was that
=)the minority was visibly present.
=)
So maybe I should rephrase it as:
=)> is: Does this finding make you reconsider your opinions, or dismiss
=)> that subgroup within Mensa as a group of cranks?

=)Are you one of those "radical relativists", Johnson, who believes
=)that there is no truth so firmly established that its opposite need
=)not be given equal intellectual status?

Although I'm sure that radical relativism is somewhat more complex than
can be described in a post of reasonable length, your short synopsis of
it sounds something like my belief.  Both the history of science and my
own experience contain several examples of things that were once
considered undeniable truths, and were later discovered to be wrong or
woefully conditional.  Even viewpoints which seem absolutely absurd can
offer new insights into the areas they address.  One of my favorites is
the invention of the hot-air balloon.
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  "Johnson"                              | "                               " |
|  johnson@sleipnir.mnesouth.corp.mot.com |               -- Marcel Marceau   |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  Disclaimer:  It's just my Tourette's Syndrome acting up again.             |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Muchow D.: About Nothing ==> NOT HARDLY
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:13:20 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.103248.19777@tfs.com> ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>> ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>>>
>>>If I could do math symbols in this medium, I could write the thing down
>>>in a fairly clear fashion. Go browse set-theory books in a math section
>>>somewhere, look up Russell's paradox. It has another name in a variation
>>>(as I aslo recall.)
>>
>>You can.  Do it.  TIA.
>>
>>GMS
>
>What does TIA mean?

Sorry for the assumption.  For those out there who I've left without
information, TIA means "Thanks In Advance".

As an aside, I've always been under that assumption that the quote
should follow the period rather than precede it, as I see most often.

	Advance."

	rather than

	Advance".

Anyone know?

GM("Too Much Free Time And Neurotic Enough To Use It")S
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa