HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kolt@ellis.uchicago.edu (Matt K/Gonzo)
Subject: Photos was Re: Computer's in casinos
Keywords: photography videotape
Reply-To: kolt@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 22:47:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.095334.639@fibers> fibers!mbuck@dg-rtp.dg.com writes:
>> From what I have seen in Nevada electronics devices including cameras are
>> "PROHIBITED". I Don't know if this is by law or house rules.
>
>I _think_ that some LV casinos are now allowing cameras.  I saw a sign
>at Excalibur saying that cameras were allowed to be used in the casino,
>but that video cameras were not.
>
>Does anyone have a list of which casinos allow cameras, and which allow
>videotape?  Even an incomplete list or any personal experiences would be
>welcome.  Please E-mail to me if you don't think it would interest the
>group at large.

As far as I know, no one allows videotape. Excalibur and Four Queens, and
I think Golden Nugget allow photography.

MK


-- 
Matt Koltnow   B0 t-- w- c g+ k s+ e r- p   "Truth is not kind; and you
Email: kolt@midway.uchicago.edu              say neither am I." --Toad the    
Ntalk: kolt@ellis.uchicago.edu (or @quads)   Wet Sprocket      
Boycott the IP... R.I.P. MSS...Hugs to all...Standard Disclaimers Apply...
From: leej@diver.asd.sgi.com (Lee Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Hold'Em question
Date: 5 Nov 92 23:35:59 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: diver.asd.sgi.com

I'm posing this question in a hold 'em context, but it's applicable in many
poker situations.  The short question is: If you're holding a premium hand,
but one that prefers play against few opponents, do you raise if there are
already many callers in front of you?

Suppose you are on the button in a limit hold 'em game, and find yourself
holding pocket rockets.  Good.  But suppose there are five callers in front
of you.  Bad.  The traditional wisdom is that you raise pre-flop with these
big hands to thin the field.  You're not going to be thinning anything with
a raise at this point.  In the games I normally play ($6-12 and $10-20) if
the big blind looks down and sees two cards from the same deck, he's calling
the raise.  Even forgetting about the big blind for a moment, all of the
previous callers are going to call (you may even incite a raising war for
which you really have no desire at this point).

Of course, you're a big favorite over any *one* of the other players at this
point, but your chances of beating them *all* are not good unless you help
on the flop.   My new thinking: with four or more opponents, I'm inclined
to smooth call.  If the flop comes off the way I'd like (I mean like a King
high with the ranks spread), then you play it fast because you're going
to get plenty of action from a King.  However, if there's a pair in the flop,
and you've got 5-6 opponents, you are in deep doo-doo.  

So, what's the net.thought on this?  I've read all the books multiple times,
but I doubt Sklansky sees very many flops with 5-6 opponents.

Regards, Lee
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart)
Subject: Re: Is 4-of-a-kind a Pat Hand?
Organization: my opinions only
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 04:40:09 GMT

In article <JACOBS.92Nov8143044@cells.cs.utah.edu> jacobs@cs.utah.edu
(Steven R Jacobs) writes:
>In article <1992Nov7.222755.27719@RedBrick.COM> jfr@RedBrick.COM () writes:
>
>> If you 4-of-a-kind pat is beaten in a draw game, you might consider
>> giving up poker for life.  Or entering a monastary (oh, same thing :-)
>
>Huh?  They say you're not even a player until you've lost with 4/kind.
>Why give up when you're just getting started :-)

And you're not a good player until you've folded it to a better hand :-)

Seth		sethb@fid.morgan.com
From: leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Is 4-of-a-kind a Pat Hand?
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:04:47 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: diver.asd.sgi.com

In article <1992Nov9.015743.25990@walter.bellcore.com> jxr@thumper.bellcore.com (Jonathan Rosenberg) writes:
>
>If you haven't been beaten with 4-of-a-kind, you've still got your poker
>cherry.
>>  Jon Rosen

In the hold 'em case, if you discount four of a kind on the board and 
you have the lower kicker, then I would imagine you could go many years
of playing regularly and not get four of a kind beaten.  In three years
of fairly serious hold 'em play, I've never had "real" quads beaten.

It is worth noting, however, that very shortly after Garden City started
dealing hold 'em, they had a $1-2 game with the following board:

           7s 8h 9s 8s 7d

The pocket 7's were beaten in two places (pocket 8's and 10s/Js).

Regards, Lee
From: mark@kraken.ucsd.edu (Mark Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Computer's in casinos
Date: 9 Nov 92 05:39:22 GMT
Organization: W.A.S.T.E.

In article <1992Nov8.024851.25082@Princeton.EDU> ajackson@ernie.Princeton.EDU (Andrew William Jackson) writes:
>
>My blackjack "computer" operates asychronously and thus does not emit any
>detectable RF signals.  Someone responded that there is a stiff prison
>sentence associated with this crime.  Is this true - does anyone know
>for sure what the actual law is?
>

From _Ken Uston on BlackJack_

"It is unlawful for any person at a licensed gaming
establishment to use, or posses with the intent to use,
any device to assist:
 1. In projecting the outcome of the game ;
 2. In keeping track of the cards palyed ;
 3. In analyzing the probability of the occurrence of 
    an event relating to the game,
 4. In analyzing the strategy for playing or betting to
    be used in the game, except as permitted by the 
    commission."


penalties:
"(a) For the first offense, by imprisonmet in the state
prison for not less than 1 year nor more than 10 years, or
by a fine of not more than $10,000, or by both fine and
impreisonment.
 (b) For a second or subsequent violation of any of these
provisions, by imprisonment in the state prison for not
less that 1 year nor more than 10 year, and my be further
punished by a fine of not more than $10,000.
 Any person whoattempts, or two or more persons who
conspire, to violate any provisions ... each shall be
punished by imposing the penalty provided ... for the
complete crime, whether or not he personally play any
gambling game or used any prohibited device."


He suggest robbing a bank would get you the same prison
time and require less startup capital.

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime, don't do it.
--Baretta :-)

mark
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jfr@RedBrick.COM ()
Subject: Re: Speaking of Omaha
Keywords: Omaha
Organization: Red Brick Systems, Los Gatos, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:13:05 GMT

In article <1dpm37INNb9b@fido.asd.sgi.com> leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones) writes:
>In article <1992Nov10.063022.22083@RedBrick.COM> jfr@RedBrick.COM () writes:
[munched my mostly reasonable advice] 
[munched Lee's better advice and on-target criticisms :-)]

Hey, Lee, not bad :-)  But the whole point to that article was to get
some of these folks to play at Garden City and play that J-10-8-4 hand
against me :-) (Just kidding, folks, Lee really improved on my advice a
lot...)

Lee's response to my article is probably why he came in 7th in the
Sunday Omaha tournament and I came in 8th (that's right, he doesn't
know it but I do :-)

In any case, his comment on the A-A-2-3 is definitely good and something
I had overlooked although I certainly have always considered A-A-2-3
a premium hand, definitely better than A-2-3-4.  Why I didn't mention
it I don't know.  I still like A-A-K-2 though.  There are more possibilities
of winning both ends with that hand.                  

I also don't totally agree with his unwillingness to play 2-4 and 3-4
as playable combos.  They are definitely at the bottom of my list and
need other qualities to be playable.  For instance, I wouldn't play
2-4-6-9 even if I was two suited.  I might play 2-4-Q-K.  Not a great
hand and would depend on all sorts of factors, but still probably 
worth playing to see the flop.  However, I am sure both Lee and I
would agree that the biggest problem with most first-time Omaha players
(and probably true in other games as well, but more so in Omaha) is
there insistence on seeing the flop on ANYTHING.  "After all," the logic
goes, "you don't know what kind of hand you really have until you see
the flop. There's so many ways to make a hand."  Which is true.  Un-
fortunately, most of the hands you make will be rotten and you will
waste a lot of money looking at flops that put you out.  

The guy who came in second at the tournament on Sunday was a veritable
calling station.  He was in on just about every hand that I recall
when he was at my table.  He got lucky.  It happens.  If he does that
three more times in a row, I would almost guarantee that he will not
make it past the first 10 players.  The winner of the tournament, on
the other hand, was a reasonably tight player who knew when to take
chances and when to hold back.  He was actually down by about 3:1
against two other players (Mr. Call and a nice lady who said she was
playing a tournament for the first time, although from watching her
play, I would bet that she had a LOT of experience :-) and he came
back because Mr. Caller kept giving up chips to both the lady and
the winner.  The lady hit a couple of bad luck hands which is why
she got knocked out.  Mr. Caller could have won if he'd tightened
up his first round calls.

Jon
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Craps Bets
From: R.C.(Chuck) Solly <NU035609@NDSUVM1.BITNET>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 08:26:39 CST
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network

Dave, I think that we are talking about the same bet. I have
heard it referred to many times as a "Don't Four" or a "No Four".
If I can buy the "don't four" or the "don't ten", I'll be happy
because I plan to use it in conjunction with the inside numbers
(on the right side) and hedge it with hardways and hop bets.

That brings up another question, none of the Craps books I have
describe the payoff for a hop bet on 3-1 or 6-4. Anyone have the
answer to that one?

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: hallyb@globbo.enet.dec.com (John Hallyburton)
Subject: Re: Is 4-of-a-kind a Pat Hand?
Summary: Net-one-upsmanship
Keywords: 4-of-a-kind
Organization: Twin Peaks Municipal Software Works
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:46:28 GMT


[continuing our previous storrrrrrrry...] 
>>>Huh?  They say you're not even a player until you've lost with 4/kind.
>>>Why give up when you're just getting started :-)
>>And you're not a good player until you've folded it to a better hand :-)

And you're not a Great player until, like Robert Redford in _Havana_, you've
folded it to a worse hand.  (To let the mark think he bluffed you out).
--
						"The Smart Money was on Goliath"
						John Hallyburton 43 55'N 71 45'W
From: barua@plains.NoDak.edu (Soumen Barua)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Boxing
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:47:50 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

Hi. I would like to do a little gambling on the upcoming boxing match between
Hollyfield - Bowe. What is he procedure? Is there a phone number or address? 
Any help will appreciated (before November 13th of course!). 
You can send me e-mail or post on the net. Thanks.
From: tahajian@aries.East.Sun.COM (David Tahajian - Sun BOS Software)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Holyfield vs. Bowe
Date: 6 Nov 1992 16:29:43 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Billerica MA
Reply-To: tahajian@east.sun.com (David Tahajian - Sun BOS Software)
NNTP-Posting-Host: aries.east.sun.com

In article <1dbsguINNc7j@skat.usc.edu> ahasham@skat.usc.edu (Allen Hasham) writes:
>      Does anyone know what the odds on the fight are. I'm going out
>      to place a bet and was curious.
>   
>    also I would be intrested to hear what anyone else has to say
>    on who they think is going to win.

My local paper has the line as:

Holyfield -150 (bet 150 to make 100)
Bowe +120 (bet 100 to make 120)

I do not know the LV line. 
I like Holyfield, but this line surprises me a bit
(I thought Holyfield would be a bigger favorite).
Enjoy the fight.

==========================================================================
Dave Tahajian                      | "YOU CALLED ME?!?" - What the AQ high
david.tahajian@east.sun.com        | player said to the winning AK player
Sun Microsystems, Billerica, Ma.   | at my 7-stud table in Foxwoods, CT.
==========================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: kolt@ellis.uchicago.edu (Matt K/Gonzo)
Subject: AMEX Trop Deal
Summary: not great but ok 
Reply-To: kolt@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:29:35 GMT

I just received something in the mail today from the Trop in LV. They will
give any cardmember, for $198, two nites in a tower room (upgrade to suite
if avail), $30 dining credit, two tickets to Folies Bergere or the Comedy 
Stop, and some other goodies.

My thoughts are that rec.gamblers and anyone wanting a cheap room can do
MUCH better, but if ya want to stay at the Trop, and the show tickets are
meaningful, it's probly a good deal.

BTW, the brochure claims that the Trop offers "Single and Double Deck 21."
What are the conditions like there? I have heard, in general, that they have
been miserable for a year or so.

MK

-- 
Matt Koltnow   B0 t-- w- c g+ k s+ e r- p   "Truth is not kind; and you
Email: kolt@midway.uchicago.edu              say neither am I." --Toad the    
Ntalk: kolt@ellis.uchicago.edu (or @quads)   Wet Sprocket      
Boycott the IP... R.I.P. MSS...Hugs to all...Standard Disclaimers Apply...
From: leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Computer's in casinos
Date: 9 Nov 92 22:52:16 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: diver.asd.sgi.com

In article <1992Nov8.024851.25082@Princeton.EDU> ajackson@ernie.Princeton.EDU (Andrew William Jackson) writes:
>
>My blackjack "computer" operates asychronously and thus does not emit any
>detectable RF signals.  Someone responded that there is a stiff prison
>sentence associated with this crime.  Is this true - does anyone know
>for sure what the actual law is?
>

The short answer is they will throw you in a dark hole in a state pen in
Ely and the key to it in Lake Mead.  They consider using a computer at 
blackjack fairly akin to using a gun at Nevada First Bank.  State courts 
have upheld the convictions over and over.

I suggest you learn to count cards yourself.

Regards, Lee
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: ard@cs.bham.ac.uk (Antoni Diller)
Subject: Unusual bets
Organization: School of Computer Science, University of Birmingham, UK
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:07:04 GMT

In the UK you can walk into some bookmakers' and ask them to give
you odds on almost anything; I recently heard that a man asked
a bookmaker to give him odds on Michael Jackson being the same
person as LaToya Jackson.  After a little research he was given odds
of 500 to 1 and the bookmaker came to an agreement with him about
how to asses if the two were really one and the same person.



Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: cantor@star.enet.dec.com (Dave Cantor)
Subject: Re: Craps Bets
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 16:02:54 GMT



In article <1992Nov5.213219.23608@walter.bellcore.com>,
jxr@thumper.bellcore.com (Jonathan Rosenberg), responding to my message
of 5-Nov, 19:01:35Z, writes:
>...Several times I've seen people ask for "no 9"(for
>example) & give the dealer a multiple of $7 (in that case).  I've seen
>this in AC (& somewhere in LV too, I think).  The bet was placed
>somewhere near "that line" above the 9.  It might have been covered with
>one of those little buttons (more gambling lingo) with something like
>"no" written on it.  The bets were paid or taken in the obvious way.

The button that has "no" written on it is really "ON".  It is used to
indicate a bet that is "working" when it would normally be off (e.g.,
working odds on a come bet on a come-out roll).  You probably saw them
stick a "LAY" button on it.  The usual response to "No 9" is a lay bet,
which requires 5% vigorish on the amount to be won (at true odds).

By the way (speaking of gambling "lingo"), though they do call those things
"buttons", the correct word is "lammer", and you will hear them called that
sometimes.

A true place-to-lose bet would not require a button, it's position on the
layout would indicate what kind of bet it is.  Lay bets and buy bets require
buttons because they are located in the same positions on the layout as
don't come and come bets, respectively.  The LAY and BUY buttons indicate
that they are to be handled differently when they win.

>Let us know what you find.

I will.

-- --
 Dave C.                          cantor@star.enet.dec.com
 Digital Equipment Corp., Nashua, NH  03062, USA
  The views expressed herein are my own, except where attributed to 
  someone else.  They are neither the opinion of, nor the responsibility 
  of, Digital Equipment Corporation.
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Unusual bets
Date: 12 Nov 92 10:26:02 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

In article <zlsiida.403@fs1.mcc.ac.uk> zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) writes:

>the 4-0 result for Manchester City (soccer) last Saturday.  they gave 50-1 
 

Oops I think it was 40-1


        Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty

  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England   (44|0)61-275-6033  
  D.Budd@mcc.ac.uk                                          fax 6040
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: dbarber@crash.cts.com (David C. Barber)
Subject: Playing Double-up in roulette
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 11 Nov 92 00:30:39 GMT

Given a minimum bet of $2 (tell me if this is out of line to expect
these table limits) and a table limit of $500, is playing double-up
on the even money bets at roulette a slow way to make say $50-$100/hour,
or a quick trip to disaster.  Assume that my bankroll will let me make
the $256 bets if necessary.

Who has done the study on all the possible combinations of win/lose
and how one comes' out from it.

Also, do the LV casinos ever ask you to leave, or close the table
just after you've lost your $128 bet for the sake of "getting" a double
up player?

Thanks.


Without change,                         *David Barber*
   nothing can ever get better.            @}-->----

UUCP: ucsd!crash!dbarber
INET: dbarber@crash.cts.com
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: kolt@ellis.uchicago.edu (Matt K/Gonzo)
Subject: Re: Craps Bets
Reply-To: kolt@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 22:59:53 GMT

You don't place 8 to win 7 on the no 6...that would be an excellent bet!
If it were free odds you could only place 6 to win 5!

As a result it takes 5 to win 4 on the no 6/8.

Sorry I didn't follow up to the right article, but I thought someone 
else might....

MK

-- 
Matt Koltnow   B0 t-- w- c g+ k s+ e r- p   "Truth is not kind; and you
Email: kolt@midway.uchicago.edu              say neither am I." --Toad the    
Ntalk: kolt@ellis.uchicago.edu (or @quads)   Wet Sprocket      
Boycott the IP... R.I.P. MSS...Hugs to all...Standard Disclaimers Apply...
From: kolt@ellis.uchicago.edu (Matt K/Gonzo)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Craps Bets
Date: 7 Nov 92 15:09:51 GMT
Reply-To: kolt@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1dc7djINNpoq@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> marlon@milpa.EBay.Sun.COM (Marlon Pearson) writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.232320.6230@midway.uchicago.edu> kolt@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>And I have a question: The house advantage on placing the 4/10 and 5/9 is
>>6.67% and 4% respectively. Every craps publication I've read says therefore,
>>that a buy of the 5/9 is a bad idea, since the PC is only 4%. But at many 
>>casinos, you pay the juice on the win only. As a result, that means that it
>>is a better play to buy the 5/9 than to place it:
>>
>>Buying the 5 for $40 pays 3:2 or $60-$3 for $57.
>>Placing the 5 for $40 pays 7:5 or $56.
>>
>>Why do the authorities say it's a poorer bet than the place bet?
>>How many casinos charge the juice on the winnings? Am I not seeing this 
>>properly?
>>
>Here is how I figure it (hopefully correct). Your $3 juice on the buy bet is
>when you make the bet not just if you win it. So if you make 5 place bets & 5 
>buy bets, each winning twice and losing three times you get.
>
>Buy bets; 5 * (40 + 3)  = $215 out of hand (bets and juice)
>	  2 * (40 + 60) = $200 in winnings 
>
>Place bets; 5 * 40        = $200 out of hand (just bets)
>            2 * (40 + 56) = $192 in winnings
>
>So for the buy bet you would be down $15 in $215 of action and 
>for the place bet you would be down $8 in $200 of action. Seems they
>are both bad but the buy is worse.
>I think I am using the term action correctly here.
Well, I know for certain that the Frontier only charges the juice on the win,
players there have told me that. I have in general only played the back line 
with 10x odds, so I wouldn't know! I'm curious b/c I think that if there are 
some not-so-awful "bad" bets on the layout that might help me to reduce
variance, then I might be tempted to make them.

Thanks,
Matt


-- 
Matt Koltnow   B0 t-- w- c g+ k s+ e r- p   "Truth is not kind; and you
Email: kolt@midway.uchicago.edu              say neither am I." --Toad the    
Ntalk: kolt@ellis.uchicago.edu (or @quads)   Wet Sprocket      
Boycott the IP... R.I.P. MSS...Hugs to all...Standard Disclaimers Apply...
From: mbuck@fibers (Michael D. Buck)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Computer's in casinos
Keywords: photography videotape
Date: 5 Nov 92 14:53:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: fibers.1992Nov5.095334.639
Reply-To: fibers!mbuck@dg-rtp.dg.com
Organization: Allied Fibers, Petersburg VA

In article <1992Nov4.202557.11388@unislc.uucp>, mgc@unislc.uucp (Marc Christensen) writes:
> Andrew William Jackson (ajackson@ernie.Princeton.EDU) wrote:
> : Why is computer use not more widespread in casinos?
> : 
> : The book eudemonic pie describes the construction and use of a 
> : roulette computer that was quite effective.  Are these computers
> : illegal?  
> From what I have seen in Nevada electronics devices including cameras are
> "PROHIBITED". I Don't know if this is by law or house rules.

I _think_ that some LV casinos are now allowing cameras.  I saw a sign
at Excalibur saying that cameras were allowed to be used in the casino,
but that video cameras were not.

Does anyone have a list of which casinos allow cameras, and which allow
videotape?  Even an incomplete list or any personal experiences would be
welcome.  Please E-mail to me if you don't think it would interest the
group at large.
________________________________________________________________________
Michael Buck                          |
UUCP: dg-rtp!fibers!mbuck             |
Internet:                             |
  fibers!mbuck@dg-rtp.dg.com          |
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: stylian@aramis.uucp (Philip Stylianos)
Subject: One day to Vegas
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 16:20:30 GMT


I leave for LV tonight, and had a few last-minute questions.
My first time, you know. I'll be staying on the Strip.

1) Are craps tables below $5 minumum plentiful? Where's the nearest to my hotel?

2) Anyone have success with Silberstang's craps "systems," i.e. you lost less 
   money than you normally do?
   (Enough mailings to me gets those systems posted).

3) For me, playing blackjack sometimes is as interesting as working on a factory
   assembly line, especially when rigidly using Basic Strategy and Hi-Opt I. But,
   I do respect the game and the research behind it. And I am excited that single
   deck games actually do exist in LV (I only played in AC when living in PA). So,
   where is the closest single deck game? Closest single deck game with <=$5 min?

4) Double odds on craps (I've seen 3X, too) are plentiful in AC. And LV? If not, 
   where are they?



Thanks oh so
-- 
                             
  |)| .|.   (`L  |.          
  | ||||||) _)|\/||([|)()(`  
         |     / _________)