HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rezabek1037@iscsvax.uni.edu (Will be President for Food)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: Re: Coding Space (Was: Re: Benedikt's Cyberspace)
Date: 28 Jan 93 23:12:27 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <AfNlVTO>, "William C. Hulley" <bhulley+@CMU.EDU> writes:

> you will not, imho, find a better way as long as you think of cspace as,
> well, spatial. we (humans) have become incredibly efficient processors
> of visual and aural data, so why screw with what works?

mrrph?! surely you mean, "why NOT use what already works..." why try designing
fantasy cyberspace "tech" custom-imagined for use with thought systems to which
our minds are NOT already accustomed? this sounds like throwing the baby out
with the bathwater.

> so why not focus on the interface building problem and assume, for
> now, that we think of cspace as a space because it works?

because, it would seem, such "technology" is *SO* far beyond our current means
to build and comprehension to grasp (ask a neuroscientist) that it amounts to
practically LESS than idle speculation, IMHO. whatEVER the interface, when it
is designed, it will be designed to interact with the Net that exists then.
that Net will have been built upon the ideas being expressed NOW. it'd be a
shame if the neurohacks finally came UP with an interface and only found "wildly
useless speculations on what a cyberdeck would be like" to navigate
around.........

.rez
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
From: shaun@octel.com (Chocolate Flavored Clorox)
Subject: Re: The Hacker Crackdown
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 17:18:46 GMT

In article <C16CGs.Isp@sdf.lonestar.org> pfox@sdf.lonestar.org (David M. Cawthon) writes:
>Landreth, Bill.  _Out_of_the_Inner_Circle_.  Washington:  Tempus Books, 1989.
>
>My book seems to be a second edition; it is white with a picture on the
>front which looks like the door of a safe ajar to reveal an electronic circuit
>board behind the door.  The subtitle of the book is "The True Story of a
>Computer Intruder Capable of Cracking the Nation's Most Secure Computer
>Systems".

Is this the book that deals with the 414s?
-- 
shaun@octel.com  ||  You can fix that throat with a pair of pliers.

''Sometimes sysadmins can be cool, sometimes they can be living in a totally
alternate dimension where the parameters of "right" and "wrong" are mixed
all up in a high-speed blender.''  -- Mr. K. Cheeseball of Brandon, Manitoba
Organization: Sponsored account, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:18:55 -0500 
From: "William C. Hulley" <bhulley+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Coding Space (Was: Re: Benedikt's Cyberspace)


deleted several rounds on the value of color, texture, sound, etc for
coding cspace. at the end, paul says...

Excerpts from netnews.alt.cyberspace: 25-Jan-93 Re: Benedikt's
Cyberspace by Paul C. Miranda@ccwf.cc. 
>  
> So.. any ideas for better coding methods than color  and texture ?
> (And if anyone ever sees a map of internet... show me!)
>  

you will not, imho, find a better way as long as you think of cspace as,
well, spatial. we (humans) have become incredibly efficient processors
of visual and aural data, so why screw with what works? i mean the problem is
not really the decision to map cspace using surrogates of pseudo-dimension
or color or sound but how to create an efficient interface between the map
and our receptor system. that's why gibson's deck is such an intriguing
concept, right? it limits interface-induced mismatch and presents
cspace as a cognitive structure that we are instantly at home working
in. so why not focus on the interface building problem and assume, for
now, that we think of cspace as a space because it works?

- bill
 
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an5659@anon.penet.fi
Subject: RE: bras and what to put in them
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 04:20:00 GMT

I have found that at least on me underwires help a lot, but
I'm kinda fleshy :).

Karyn
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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an5659@anon.penet.fi
Subject: RE: Me
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 04:32:00 GMT

Renee,

Having just come out to my girlfriend, all I have to say is keep looking
because there are women out there who are accepting.

I also have a problem with dressing, I'm 6'2" and 245 going down slowly
(again) and I wear about a 20-22; but it isn't too much of a problem
since I'm smaller than my girlfriend (not by much though).

Karyn
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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Re: FYI and F(My)I
From: wanamake@vax.sonoma.edu
Date: 24 Jan 93 19:39:22 -0800
Organization: Sonoma State University

In article <1993Jan23.053855.7335@fuug.fi>, an7126@anon.penet.fi (Marie) writes:
> 
> 
> Now I have some questions...
> 
> 1. How does female hormone therapy effect mail pattern baldness???

I had some trouble posting, so I wasn't able to reply to this when I 
first saw it.  Although the line is that hormone therapy will have no 
effect on male pattern baldness, both another TS and myself have 
experienced some hairline regrowth around the temples.  We are both 
in our early 30s, with out too much hair loss.  Also, we see a 
well-known Doctor in SF who is known for prescribing "The Cocktail" 
(5mg Premarin/day, 10mg Provera/day, and 0.5mg Estinyl/day).  Now 
before anybody gets worked up over these amounts, this doctor is 
well-known and respected by all the other professionals I have encountered.
> 
> 2. What is involved in laryngial cartilidge surgery (removal of the adams
> apple), and how much does it cost???

As I understand it, it is a simple out-patient procedure involving 
"shaving" of the protuding cartilidge, and costs anywhere from one to 
two thousand dollars.
> 
> 3. About how long after the beginning of hormone therapy, do female   
> secondary sex characteristics become evident??? physical??? emotional???
> psychological???
> 
Female characteristics began showing up in me in the second month of 
therapy, approximately one month after moving up from 2.5mg Premarin 
a day to 5mg.  Now, seven months into treatment, I have very 
pronounced female characteristics, including breasts, softer skin, 
hips, and hair growth is beginning to slow.  

Emotionally, it has been a very smooth ride.  I now experience 
emotions much closer to the surface than I used to.  I am also a much 
more patient person.  It seems as though I am thinking "differently" 
than I used to, although I can't say exactly how.

Hugs,
Sarah W.
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an1705@anon.penet.fi (Jenny B.)
Subject: Re: Basic questions
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 01:09:44 GMT

)	I get my feminine clothes at a local Salvation Army outlet. I 

That's my primary source also!  Primarily it's because they don't look too
closely at what you buy... just count the items and multiply by some amount
of money.  I sometimes mutter "four things from the $1.00 bin", and am
believed.  I've never even gotten a strange look from the clerk.

)have not seen any indication that anyone thinks it at all odd; probably
)because people of both sexes frequently buy clothes of both sexes there.
)Perhaps a lot of people like us? 

More likely it's just people buying for their entire families.  I've made up
a name and description of my "wife", who works during their business hours
and can't buy her own clothes.  Never had to use it though...

)	If anyone ever asks you (though no one ever has me) you can just
)say you are buying for your sister.

At first I had a carefully-rehearsed story, but later became more relaxed...
the Salvation Army is *fantastic*!


JennyB
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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an1167@anon.penet.fi (Rita)
Subject: Re: What do you do?
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:40:54 GMT

In <1993Jan23.153351.26137@fuug.fi>, an7823@anon.penet.fi (Sally Walker)
writes:
> 
> Hello all! This group is wonderful - I'm learning about myself
> by hearing from you all. Thanks!

Ain't it the truth!

> 
> I'm a very closeted sort - late thirtys - who CDs mostly at home. When
> dressed I like to read this group, clean the house, iron and cook - it
> seems to fit my dressed persona. 
> 
> So here's my query - what do you like to do once dressed, if you staay
> at home?

Maybe I'm unusual, but I don't think I do anything much different.  I usually
do it at night, so I might do something quiet, like read a book, but I might
just as likely play a video game or watch TV - the same sort of stuff I'd do
anyway - although I wouldn't normally spend so much time looking at my
reflection! ;-)  I don't have a home computer, so I have to read this at work -
so I obviously (?) don't do that dressed....

> 
> Also, I find that dressing takes me to a place of escape - for me it
> is a time to let go of the problems of my male self - to be free and
> relaxed. Is that true for others?
> 

I certainly find I don't think about other things when dressed - the moment
is too satisfying to allow other mundane problems to creep in.

> This is my first post - so thanks for being there!
> 
I'm glad we can all support one another - welcome, sister!

> Love,
> Sally W.
> 
*Hugs*

Rita

==============================================================
"Take a little trip back, with Father Tiresias
Listen to the old one speak of all he has been through -
'I have crossed between the poles, for me there's no mystery
	Once a man, like the sea I raged,
	Once a woman, like the earth I gave,
But there is in fact more earth than sea.'"
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From: wheeler@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Re: Female "Crossdressers"
Date: 21 Jan 93 14:47:44 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <C0vICu.BDo@cscns.com>, rks@cscns.com (Gisle J. Benediktsson) writes:
> I have been reading this group off and on and find the whole 
> concept of transexualism to be fascinating. Rarely have I heard
> much from women who have an interest in transforming themselves
> into men. I have seen a few on talk shows and so on but never
> any serious discussion. 
> 
> Personally, I can't say that I have any interest in becoming a
> male although androgyny is very appealing. I rather like the idea
> of taking the "best from both" (in a manner of speaking). I'm 
> far from educated on this subject but the whole idea of dividing
> ourselves into categories of apparel seems rather ludicrous. 
> 
> I prefer male clothing for several reasons: it is less expensive,
> it is less frivolous, it is more confortable and usually wears
> longer. I guess I really don't think about it beyond that. It
> doesn't make me "feel" any particular way although I get some dd reactions
> from others. Many figure that I am just a "butch" (substitute one letter
> in that word for the assessment of various others. :-) and others
> figure that I am just an overgrown tomboy. Personally, I prefer to 
> think of myself as somewhat androgynous and utilitarian. 
> 
> Any other women reading this group who see things similarly? 
> 
> Any male CDers who can cotribute to the whole discussion of androgyny
> would be appreciated. 
> 
> 
> //gisle
> 
Right on sister! As a female convert to overall (why would anyone wear tight jeans
with a waistband?) I fully support women who wear "men's" clothes. Do you find
yourself frustrated that people look at you as a butch or a tomboy because of
the way you dress? Or do you think they respond negatively because they feel
threatened?  To expand the dialog a bit, do you think "women's clothes"  need
to be fussy or frilly? I think that the basic form of a skirt is very
freedom-promoting and I think more people in western cultures should give it a
try (beyond or in addition to the cross-dressing thing). Anyway, I just wanted
to give you a thumbs up for your promotion of the androgynous look.

Rebecca Wheeler
Wheeler@uni.edu> 
>                              "You get what you settle for.."
>                                                Louise
> 
> 
>   
> 
>
From: russw@cs.utexas.edu (Russ Williams)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Re: Basic questions
Date: 23 Jan 1993 14:11:04 -0600
Organization: Great Northern Hotel
NNTP-Posting-Host: im4u.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1993Jan23.085656.13200@fuug.fi> an1705@anon.penet.fi (Jenny B.) writes:
>)	I get my feminine clothes at a local Salvation Army outlet. I 
>)say you are buying for your sister.

>At first I had a carefully-rehearsed story, but later became more relaxed...
>the Salvation Army is *fantastic*!

One could simply say that it is for a costume.  Goodwill takes out ads
(at least here in Austin whenever halloween approaches) that explicitly
suggest the store as a good source of CD costumes, so it would seem
they are mellow about the concept.

Depending on your semantics of the word "costume", this explanation
has the advantage of being true, and is in any case probably more plausible
than that you're buying clothes for someone else.  (At least I always
have bad luck picking out clothes for other people, both stylewise
and fitwise.)

Russ
From: daves@comp.lancs.ac.uk (Dave Stow)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Julie - an address!
Date: 23 Jan 93 15:06:57 GMT
Organization: Department of Computing at Lancaster University, UK.

Well - thanks for your continued support of our Julie!

She's asked me to post her address here, so...

Julie Brandon
1 Olivers Mill
New Ash Green
Longfield
Kent
DA3 8RE
England


She seems to be kind of generally feeling rather better, but is still in
hospital...

See yer!
Dave

--- daves@comp.lancs.ac.uk ----------------------------------------------------
| Will you still suck me,    | #include <std.disclaimer.h>                    |
| tie me up and fuck me?     |                             ** Beard rides **  |
| When I'm 64...             | Whisky, Sex and Blues...                       |
---------------------------------------------- B5(6.5) f- t- g+ k+ s+ e r p ---
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an933@anon.penet.fi
Subject: alt.transgendered
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 06:15:46 GMT

Test, sorry, this will be the only one. Promise.
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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an7126@anon.penet.fi (Marie)
Subject: TS: Nature vs Nuture???
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:15:54 GMT


>From: wendy@sundown.mil.wi.us (Wendy)

>This is an interesting topic. I'm a Transexual in a gender transition
>program. I have always believed I was in the wrong body. Someone played
>a cruel joke on me!!! 

>Now, whether it's biological or social, with me it would be hard to
>say. My mother and aunt (her twin) treated and dressed me as a girl for
>the first couple of years of my life.

>Another pre-op that I know had parents that were just the opposite, 
>treating her in a highly masculine way when she was a small boy. We
>both have the same feelings, but were brought up in entirely different
>ways. So maybe it's a combination.

>Wendy

   Recent tests show that when the average Japanese person hears a 
bird singing, the portion of his brain becomes active which most
scientist feel is associated with music. In Americans, the same song
illicits activity in the part of the brain associated with noise. 
Tests indicate that this brain wiring is learned, not genetic. In
other words, learning change brain physiology, the two are inseper-
able.          

   Equally valid research shows that identical twins lead amazingly
similar lives. Even twins separated at birth. This suggests a very
powerful underlying genetic predisposition towards becoming the  
people we are. I'm sure we've all read studies about prenatal effects
on developing human beings.

   I totally agee with Wendy, our conscious expression is the sum of 
our experiences, but our ground of being shapes those experiences from
the day of birth. Under it all there is proclivity, the tendency for
us to become what we will. As the experiences of our lives rain down
upon us, the moments of our lives erode our tendencies into solid 
nature, we become who we are from the living process.

  Sometimes it is pointless to theorize whether it was the small 
fissure that originally drew the water, or the water itself, that made
the canyon. In the end we are left with what IS, and we must simply
appreciate it that and nothing more.
 


Your mileage may vary, Marie ;-) 


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From: wendy@sundown.mil.wi.us (Wendy)
Date: 27 Jan 93 04:26:36 GMT
Subject: Re: Pictures...             
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Organization: Wendy's world
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

wanamake@vax.sonoma.edu wrote:
: 
: Well, Karyn, my photo is in the current issue of Tapestry under the name
: Sarah W. in the California section.  However the photo was taken 
: before I went on hormones and lost some weight, so it doesn't look 
: particularly like me anymore.
: 
: Hugs,
: Sarah W.

Well, I just looked it up and you look alot better then me, that's
all that I can say. Good luck on your journey.

Love,

Wendy
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an6471@anon.penet.fi (Marina)
Subject: Hormones and sources
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 03:34:13 GMT


Hi,

One area of information I have found quite lacking for TS's is on  
Hormones, outside of seeing medical professionals.  I have done quite  
a bit of browsing the local campus med-library, etc., but have not  
found that much solid material on the effects, results, and issues  
regarding their use.

It would be interesting to hear people's experiences.  I have not had  
much experience with them, but am quite curious.  Also, I have done  
quite a bit of searching for material on natural  
Estrogen/Progesterone sources, and have found some interesting  
information I will summarize here.  If you would like any of the  
references I have for this stuff, please send mail.  Disclaimer: I am  
not suggesting the use of any of these.  This is just information I  
have read and though I would provide to the group.

Some Natural/Herbal Estrogen/Progesterone sources:
Black Cohosh root - Apparently a good source, but possibly mildly  
toxic in large quantities

Licorice - !!  May cause water retention and thus be bad for those  
with high blood pressure, etc.

Vitex Agnes Castes (Chaste Tree Berry) - Apparently it was originally  
used by Monks to reduce sex drive/aggressiveness.  Now used by women  
who want to stabilize estrogen/progesterone levels after they quit  
taking the pill, helps with PMS, etc. I have not read of any side  
effects.  To me it seems like the natural source of choice.

Pomegranate seeds and Date pits - I've seen only one brief reference  
to these, so don't have much information.



When I discovered this information, I was amazed at the number of  
plant sources of estrogen.  I've never seen any references to this  
stuff except in Herbal literature.  Anyone else ever uncover related  
information?  I hope this as much of interest to others here as it  
was to me.

Take Care,
Martina 


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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an2071@anon.penet.fi (Kathleen)
Subject: No Subject
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:36:24 GMT


Rus wrote:

>I agree completely!  As a superficial version of this vision, I often
>daydream of a society where everyone wears whatever they want with
>no social stigma -- business suits, Roman togas, Civil War uniforms,
>pirate outfits, whatever floats your boat...  I suppose this idle
>fantasy is in fact a generalization of what CDers would like from society.


I struggled with this issue for a long time. 

In talking with non T* people about my cross dressing, sometimes some
would ask if the world were different and if I had the right to wear
anything I wanted, would I be satisfied. Often the questioner would
make reference to the freedom that women have to look as androgenous
or, in some cases, as male as they wish without people whispering
"*He* is really a women."

In the beginning my answer was yes, that would bring me sastisfaction,
but as time went on, I realized that *for me* the answer was not that
simple, that my needs would not be satisfied by such a world. That
is when I realized I was transsexual.

Kathleen





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From: an1242@anon.penet.fi (Sarah Jessica)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: What do you do?
Date: 24 Jan 93 15:57:23 GMT
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered

X-Anon-To: alt.transgendered

	I like to do housework also -- cleaning and folding clothes,
washing dishes, making beds, and so forth -- obviously VERY stereotyped
and not politically correct, but hang all that! makes me feel very
feminine. Actually, I imagine that I am doing it for an imaginary man who
loves me very much. And who thinks I am feminine as hell.
	I also read this group then.
	Otherwise, I like to listen to music, esp. dance music, and dance
to it in ways that could be considered erotic... :-)

					Sarah Jessica



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