HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Mshar)
Subject: Re: Cold Idling Problem Due to Damp Weather
Keywords: Cold Idling, Damp Weather
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 04:41:35 GMT

> mbs@allegra.att.com (Mani B. Srivastava) writes:

>One day after I drove in the rain it developed the problem that
>it would not idle when cold - I have to keep press the gas pedal
>pressed until it warmed up ... otherwise the engine would run very 
>rough or just die. Parking the car for more than a couple of hours
>means going through this process all over again. The problem seems
>to be particularly bad on damp and humid days. The first visit to

It sure sounds like you have a classic car problem; condensation and 
water droplets in your distributor. On damp, humid days, water can condense
on the inside of your distributor cap. A commonly held belief is that
this cannot occur on cars with electronic ignition, but as long as it
is an unsealed ignition system (i.e. cap and rotor type) water can and
will get in there. Once the water forms on the inside of the cap, arcing
of the spark inside the cap can occur. This will cause the exact symptoms
you are describing, since a clean spark will not make it to the cylinder
when it needs it most, at idle.

Once the engine and distributor warm up a bit, the water evaporates, and
the problem goes away. What can be done, though??

Unfortunately, not a whole lot. You might want to try a new distributor
cap. Sometimes a new cap will fit tighter and prevent water vapor from
getting into the distributor. Also, keep the inside of the cap clean, 
because water can more easily condense on dust, carbon, etc. than it
can on smooth plastic. Other than that, there really isn`t a whole 
lot you can do, assuming that this is the problem.

Hope that gives you some insight...



-- 
|       Michael G. Mshar        | My Life-Long Goal: To keep common sense    |
|   mmshar@mn.ecn.purdue.edu    | alive and keep the idiots from taking over.|
|  mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu   |     \\President, Nice Guys Anonymous//     |
|____>>> United States Steel, Mechanical Engineer, Technical Services <<<____|
From: siqif@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Siqi Fan)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:27:52 GMT
Subject: Re: less than a taurus
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: rec.autos

How do you get a SHO for 15.5? Our local dealer quoted about 24 for a 93 SHO.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: sami@bcarh13d.bnr.ca (Sami Boulos)
Subject: Canadian price on Honda Civic LX Sedan
Originator: sami@bcarh13d
Organization: Bell Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 11:19:33 GMT

What is the CDN$ invoice price on a  92 Honda Civic LX Sedan with automatic?
What is the typical markup on this car? I've been given list prices of
CDN$13900, which includes freight and dealer  preparation of CDN$550. The
lowest price off list I've gotten has been CDN$11700. I'd prefer to negotiate
up from the invoice, rather down from the dealer's prices above. Any 
other info would be useful (e.g. how easy is it to get a dealer to agree to
put in an option, such as a radio, for free?).

Thanks.
-- 
Sami Boulos  |  Bell-Northern Research           |  TEL: (613) 765-2108
             |  P.O. Box 3511, Stn. C            |  FAX: (613) 765-2854
sami@bnr.ca  |  Ottawa, Ontario  Canada K1Y 4H7  |  #include <disclaimer.h>
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: gudmund@playfair.Stanford.EDU (Gudmund Host)
Subject:  AAA Approved Car Repair
Reply-To: gudmund@playfair.Stanford.EDU (Gudmund Host)
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: su
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 16:03:50 GMT



Among all possible places to get your car fixed, some
advertise that they are approved by the AAA.

What's it really worth?

Any other signs to look for when getting your car serviced?

Gudmund H.
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Good/Bad Mazda Dealers?
Date: 2 Oct 92 01:09:07 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Distribution: ba
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA

In article <1992Oct1.004309.29074@adobe.com> ayers@adobe.com (Robert Ayers) writes:
>I'm interested in opinions, war-stories, experiences, good or bad, 
>about the sales and service departments of the nearby south-bay 
>Mazda dealers:
>
>    Sunnyvale Mazda

   Rip-off.  Or just let's say "over-agressive" in pushing "the
   extra's".  But I will admit they've never actually screwed up my
   car.

>    Peninsula Mazda (redwood city)
  
  Never tried them....may just do so.

>    Putnam Mazda (burlingame)
  
    Really nice people.  Unfortunately on both occasions i've taken
    my car in, they've screwed up areas near the repair.  

    Have you heard of Far Performance in Mountain View?  So far I've
    had pretty good luck there, but I wish they'd use less
    squeal-prone pucks.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: downforce and cornering g's (was which car handles the best?
From: james@koko.csustan.edu (Jonas Grumpy)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 07:03:49 GMT
Organization: CSU Stanislaus

In article <8199@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> sourlas@babbage.seas.ucla.edu (Dennis Sourlas) writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.133110.20448@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> dpaper@nyx.cs.du.edu (David Paper) writes:
>>Ummm I hate to clarify something..
>>
>>but if you have taken a basic level physics course, you would know that a
>>car can never obtain more than 1g, in actuality, .9 is VERY good, as i
>>think the dodge viper gets umm .93 or something..
>>
>>1 g would pick the car up.. and 2g' just doesn't exist, not in lateral
>>motion anyways..
>>
>
>i would like some justification for your comment.  what seems to have
>escaped your attention is that the car generates downforce; in other
>words, depending on the speed of the car its weight icreases relative
>to the weight that the stationary car has.  so, the more weight the
>car puts on the street, the faster it can turn, the more lateral g's
>it can sustain without losing control.  as an example, consider the
>F-1 cars than can routinely corner with lateral acceleration of more
>than 1g.
>
>>sorry guys..
>>
>>-dave
>
>before the F40 there was another exotic car that featured net positive
>downforce.  anybody remembers which one it is ?
>
>dennis / ucla /


Maybe the Porsche 930 turbo or OH!! Lamborghini LP5000S. The one with wings
in FRONT AND BACK!!! That was I rememeber now.
-- 
28940375892743587293475982734985723984 bottles of beer on the wall
28940375892743587293475982734985723984 bottles of beer..
take one down, pass it around
28940375892743587293475982734985723983 bottles of beer on the wall......>>>
From: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com (Bob Haar)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:11:55 GMT
Reply-To: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com
Organization: G.M. Research Labs

In article 13355@texsun.Central.Sun.COM, dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard) writes:
|>How many new RWD automobiles are still offered? There's the huge
|>GM line (Buick Roadmonster/Caprice/new Fleetwood).  Is the Crown Vic?
|>The trend seems clearly toward FWD, but don't know if that's mostly
|>fashion or not.

In the GM line up, the F-cars (camaro and firebird) and the corvette
are also rear wheel drive. And if you include minivans as cars, then
the astro/safari M vans go on the list. 

---
	Robert Haar               InterNet : rhaar@gmr.com 
	Computer Science Dept., G.M. Research Laboratories
DISCLAIMER: Unless indicated otherwise, everything in this note is
personal opinion, not an official statement of General Motors Corp.
From: KHAAV@ASUACAD.BITNET (Bob Kaneshige)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Anybody know anything about Shocks?
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:52:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: ASUACAD.92273.135236KHAAV
Organization: Arizona State University

In article <uznerk.717786280@mcl>, uznerk@mcl.ucsb.edu (Andrew Krenz) says:
>
                            The problem is, he paid about $285 for 4 shocks,
>without installation.  Is this abnormally expensive, or do most shocks cost
>this much?  If not, does anyone know of a particular brand of shocks that
>would give the car a stiff (police-ish) ride without having to fork out
>so much ca$h?  Any help would be appreciated.
>-Andrew Krenz
>uznerk@mcl.ucsb.edu

Take at look at Monroe Formula GPs, if they make them for Caprice's.  I paid   0
$50 each for my vette.  I did the install myself.

  Bob
From: jye@usna.navy.mil (Jean Edgar (CADIG STAFF))
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: SHO Convention in Peoria this summer
Keywords: It was fun!
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:24:44 GMT
Distribution: usa

Did any of you SHO-owning netters go to the SHO convention in
Peoria in July?  I wish I had thought to bring this up before
the convention to see if any of you were planning to go.  We
could have had a BOF!  :-)  My husband and I went and we had 
a great time.  Next year the convention will be held in Atlanta 
and we have been promised a tour of the plant.

Jean

-- 
Jean Y. Edgar (Computer Systems Analyst)  internet: jye@usna.navy.mil
Division of Engineering & Weapons         uucp:     ...!uunet!usna!jye
U.S. Naval Academy                        Tel:      410-267-4413
Annapolis, MD 21402-5042                  Autovon:      281-4413
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: wcsintd7@alfred.carleton.ca (Peter Kuciak)
Subject: BMW 325ix service manuals ...
Keywords: BMW
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 15:21:30 GMT

Hello, I am looking for a service manual (a one with lots of pictures
:-) ) for a 1988 BMW 325 series.  I would like to do some minor work
on it myself but it would be nice to have a manual.  If you have one
just please tell me what the title is and where I can get it.  Also
does it take a long time to get onto BMW 'mail list' ??

peter,   e-mail : wcsintd7@ccs.carleton.ca

.sig on vacation
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (Andreas  Tovornik)
Subject: Re: Whats a Geo Metro (explained)
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 18:39:22 GMT

In article 10111@bsu-ucs.uucp, 01ksdavis@bsu-ucs.uucp (Rebel without a clue.) writes:
>In article <3TN7RB1w164w@cellar.org>, blu@cellar.org (Dan Reed) writes:
>> Geo Metros
>> ^^^^^^^^^^ - Please Explain This!
>> 
>> A Geo, is a car comany here in the states, that sells several small, crummy, 
>> magot shit box cars under the Chevy name.  The cars are made by Isusu, 
>> Toyota, and Diahatsu (sp?).  All sold under the Geo name.  One such car, the 
>> Geo Metro, is a small, 4 person car.  The car, is *Very* small, and sports (I 
>> think) a 3 cyl. engine, and gets 56Mpg.  Needless to say, this car, does not 
>> have that much power...

The Geo Metro is made by Suzuki. Add another company to the Geo list.
 
>> ----- 
>>  Dan Reed (Blu-Max) blu@cellar.org - AutoCad Geek - VW Lover - InlineSkater 
>> 68 Cougar XR-7, 89 VW Golf, 72 Honda CL360Twin, Ti/99/4a, Vextrex, Timex
>-- 
>	Indeed, the air-conditioning and an automatic tranny on this car puts so
>much strain on the engine it won't move.  

The car also has the worst case of FWD understeer I have had the displeasure of
knowing.

>	Another thing about the metro-I have seen the afters.  Can you say
>death-traps?  Can you say I feel safer in my unsafe-at-any-speed VW BUG or Chevy
>Corvair?  Can you say Ralph Nader only persecutes cool cars?

YUP! Swing axles...love 'em.
Geo is advertising genius taken to the extreme.

Andy.


From: raineyd@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Dan Rainey)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 14:59:34 GMT
Subject: looking for IMCA'S
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.autos



hello out there on the net, Im looking for any one that may have an IMCA
modified car for sale. Im starting to try to get things together to build
one as a new project. I curently race mini stocks and would be interested
in trading one of them for that IMCA too. Just reply to the net or my mail
and I'll get back to you
.   
Xref: sparky rec.autos:22914 rec.autos.tech:13227 rec.autos.driving:5716 rec.autos.sport:10586
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech,rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.sport,
Subject: *** Design Logic Faults ***
From: abe@nutmeg.ntu.edu.au (Abron Lukitsch)
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:55:22 +0900
Distribution: world
Organization: Information Technology, Northern Territory University

Has anyone ever come accross a similar problem to this:

On the Mitsubishi Magna (early models TM, TN) the electric radiator
fans switch on when the engine temperature is above a certain level.
This is controled by a temperature switch... if the temperature 
switch fails then the fan does not turn on so you drive around for a 
day and cook your engine...
Wouldn't it make more sense to have the electric fan running while
the engine is on rather than when it gets HOT... and have the fan
stay on if the car is still hot and the engine is off..
I would rather suffer a flat battery than have to fork out to buy 
buy a new head if my engine cooks...
Anyone know if this or any other design faults have been fixed in the 
newer models?

Anyone know of any other similar problems in other vehicles?


  Abron Lukitsch (email: abe@it.ntu.edu.au)
  School of Information Technology (SchIT) Northern Territory University,
  Darwin, Australia.
From: TKPOWELL@bluemoon.profs.tek.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: ALLOY WHEELS - why?
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:33:25 GMT

In article <1aho0mINN9qk@seven-up.East.Sun.COM> ebergman@phaedrus.East.Sun.COM
writes:
--I know zilch about alloy wheels.  What do they do for you?
--What are the pro's and con's of alloy wheels?
--
--Eric
nick@socrates.umd.edu (Nick Lemberos)

-two of my OEM wheels had flat spots after 90,000 miles. another had
-be trashed by a pot hole.  OEM replacement wheels (alloys) were
-$250, very good aftermarket wheels were $200 each.

-They are lighter (there by reducing unsprung weight), stronger
-(depending on brand) and probably the most common reason ppl buy
-replacement wheels: they allowed me to go from 14" to 15".
-More rubber on the ground.

This is exactly what I just did.  Replaced the stock tires/wheels
on my 90 Integra with 205 50 15s.  Provides quite a handling improvement.
A couple data points.  The wheels are Fittipaldi Monos (15 X 6.5) and
tires are Yoko A509s.  I got them from Exotic Wheel and Tire out of
Tallahasee,Fl for $1195 balanced and delivered.  The Fittapaldis were
$188 ea and are made by OZ of Italy.  OZ makes many of the wheels found
on hi pro cars including F1.  The tires/wheels were delivered in 7 days.
They seem perfectly balanced. One note of caution for you FWD guys.  Be sure
and get hub-centric wheels made for your application.  That means the center
part of the wheels is true and fits snugly on your hub.  You may never
get them balanced if you don't.

--Terry
From: dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: stainproofing seats & carpeting ?
Date: 6 Oct 92 12:08:27 GMT
Reply-To: dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems

In article 6310550@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM, 6310550@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM () writes:
>
>I just bought a 1993 Caravan & would like to stainproof the seats
>and carpeting to protect them from my two kids.  Does anybody have
>any recommendations ?  The dealer was pushing stuff they put on
>but was charging $500 !!!!  Has anybody tried the spray on scotch-
>guard ?  How well does it hold up ?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Deb

What the dealer charges $500 for is to... spray on Scotchguard (that is, if
he really ends up doing it...how would you know?).

I spray the entire seats and carpeting maybe 3 times a year, since it does wear
off, depending upon use (just as the dealer's will).  Avoid the dealer rip-off,
keep your upholstery looking new at a few bucks a year.

	Dave
From: endrizzi@sctc.com (Michael Endrizzi)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Civic SI clutch chatter
Date: 1 Oct 92 11:55:58 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: SCTC


I own a '83 and '91 honda civics. clutches were/are fine.


					dreez
From: david@xlnt.com (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.
Date: 30 Sep 92 00:16:51 GMT
Organization: XLNT Designs, Inc (XDI)

In article <5282@balrog.ctron.com>, smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith) writes:
|> In article <13355@texsun.Central.Sun.COM>, dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard) writes:
|> >How many new RWD automobiles are still offered? There's the huge
|> >GM line (Buick Roadmonster/Caprice/new Fleetwood).  Is the Crown Vic?
|> >The trend seems clearly toward FWD, but don't know if that's mostly
|> >fashion or not.
|> 
|> I tried this once before, let's see how I do this time:
|> 
|> Rear Wheel Drive _cars_ for sale in the USA, 1992:
|> 
|> Ford Crown Victoria/Mercury Grand Marquis/Lincoln Town Car
|> Ford Thunderbird/Mercury Cougar
|> Ford Mustang
|> Buick Roadmaster/Chevy Caprice/Cadillac Brougham
|> Chevy Camaro/Pontiac Firebird
|> Chevy Corvette
|> Dodge Viper
|> Infiniti Q45
|> Lexus SC300/SC400/ES400
|> Acura NSX
|> Toyota MR2
|> Toyota Supra
|> Toyota Cressida
|> Mazda 929
|> Mazda RX-7
|> Mazda Miata
|> 
|> Did I miss any this time?


How about :

Nissan 240sx, 300zx
All current Porsches except the Carrera 4

I think Jags, Rolls, most if not all MB's and Ferraris are RWD.

I am sure I missed plenty.  There are plenty of rwd cars.  They
tend to be on the sporty side.


-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com
From: steinmar@blaze.rutgers.edu (dan steinmark)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: downforce and cornering g's (was which car handles the best?
Date: 5 Oct 92 12:54:14 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

Oh, BTW, the 959 had zero lift at speed, but I don't believe it had 
positive downforce.

Also, it doesn't take anything dramatic to get a car up over 1G for
cornering.  Just the proper set of tires on a decent handling car.

Modern autocross tires (on stock or near stock street cars) can easily
develop upwards of 1.1G.  And these tires are street legal.  (Although
you get << 10K miles out of them).

In article <Sep28.090631.19006@engr.washington.edu> eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot) writes:

> or 190 mph top speed is becoming quite irrelevant.  on the other hand,
> doing 2g's at 55 mph sounds like a much more inviting proposition.
> i applaud the ford engineers for making a bold and brave move.
> 
> it would be hilarious if 10 years down the road the lawmakers decide
> to impose cornering g limits on curves and introduce a lateral g radar
> guns  :-) 
> 
> 
> eliot

No it wouldn't :-(.   Actually, there might be a move to start enforcing
those "advisory" speed limits around corners. :-0

      -Dan
------------
"55.  It's not justly a good idea.  It's the lawyers."
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (Andreas  Tovornik)
Subject: Re: FWD vs. RWD, Which is best.
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 01:47:26 GMT

In article 24201@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com, smith@comm.mot.com (Jeff Smith) writes:
>Hey, have  any of you people ever actually *driven* a front wheel
>drive car in the snow?! It doesn't sound like it! Let me preface this
>by saying I *much* prefer RWD at least as far as performance cars go.
>However...when I lived in an area where snow was a factor, the FWD car
>was much *easier* to drive in snow without losing control. Period. The
>car would simply *never* fishtail. With a RWD car, when it loses traction
>with the rear wheels (and it will, unless you're extremely careful, and
>even then it sometimes will) it tends to fishtail, or even spin. A FWD
>car simply will not. As for that McCluggage guy who supposedly claims he
>couldn't drive a FWD car up a hill in snow...well, that's B.S. I passed
>plenty of RWD cars who were stuck on hills in the snow when I had my
>front-driver. I don't know what his problem was.

Well, when the snow was 8" deep or more on a 17% grade, I had to go up
it in reverse with FWD. You know that plowing understeer you get with
FWD? I ended up in many ditches because when I tried to power out of a 
curve, the wheels would spin sideways because they were turned, but the
momentum of the car had me going headlong into the ditch. I prefer RWD
because I can steer with my right foot. If you don't spin the wheels excessively,
you don't spin out. Some of us learned winter driving with RWD and are used to it.

My first three cars were RWD, and I had mastered winter driving in them.
Then I got a FWD econobox to save on gas, and couldn't unlearn my RWD
habits of ten years, I ended up in ditches. Then I went back to RWD
and have never had problems since.

About a week ago, I said that this was a subjective can of worms: For you,
FWD is easier to control because you probably learned winter driving with
it. For me, RWD is easier to control because FWD was not too popular
when I started driving. Ah, those were the days, when cars were real cars,
big, powerful, and heavy!

END OF DISCUSSION, ALRIGHT?

Andy.

IGNORANCE disclaimer applies.



Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh)
Subject: Re: Probe / Mercury Capri / Ford Capri - Which?
Originator: kevinh@nath
Reply-To: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch
Organization: Ascom Hasler AG
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 14:05:07 GMT


In article <1992Oct1.103509.1@sdl.mdcbbs.com>, richardk@sdl.mdcbbs.com writes:
|> Greetings car enthusiasts!
|> 
|> There I was, reading my car magazine last night, and it mentioned the release
|> of the new Ford Capri in late '93. I have been following this news-group for a
|> couple of weeks now and have seen various messages about a Mercury Capri. Is
|> this the same car? And if it is, why are we over in the UK told that in the
|> US it is on sale as a Probe?

No, it's not the same car. The new Probe is basically a Mazda MX6. A roadtest
was done in last months issue of CAR magazine who said, basically, that it was
a very nice car (a Ford?) There was also "speculation" that it would be re-badged to
become the new Capri. I doubt this very much, the damage done to Fords
reputation, if they re-incarnated that name, would be immeasurable :-).

kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch

Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
From: mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Mshar)
Subject: Re: simple starting problem
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 04:53:42 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.185054.21174@cmcl2.nyu.edu> rosenblg@acf3.nyu.edu (Gary J. Rosenblum) writes:
>
>	simple question - from time to time when i try to start my car 
>(whether it is cold or warm), all i get is a 'click' when i turn the 
>ignition key.  when this happens, it can take one click, or twenty, 
>then it starts up with no problem.  the problem goes away when i 
>install a new battery, but starts again after about 2-3 months.  the 
>battery voltage checks out, and of course whenever i take it to a 
>mechanic he finds nothing wrong with it.  any ideas?  this happens in 
>my 1987 toyota celica gt with fuel injection.

Sounds like the starter solenoid, which is the device that receives current
from the battery and engages the starter to the flywheel, is going bad.
Usually you will get this clicking noise with a dead battery because there
is not enough current to engage the starter. But, the same thing can 
happen when the solenoid itself is bad. This may mean that you have to
replace the whole starter and solenoid, depending on design.


-- 
|       Michael G. Mshar        | My Life-Long Goal: To keep common sense    |
|   mmshar@mn.ecn.purdue.edu    | alive and keep the idiots from taking over.|
|  mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu   |     \\President, Nice Guys Anonymous//     |
|____>>> United States Steel, Mechanical Engineer, Technical Services <<<____|
Newsgroups: rec.autos