HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tjhendry@mcs.drexel.edu (Jonathan Hendry)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Back to OS/2 was Re:A radical idea.
Date: 11 Jan 93 04:38:09 GMT
Organization: Drexel University

In article <1993Jan9.030957.2372@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_kupkams@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>In article <1ilh6lINN5kj@shelley.u.washington.edu>, tzs@carson.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes:
>> z_kupkams@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:

<<munch>

>
>As for NT, and the claim of NT apps' Just look through the NT applications
>guide printed by Microsoft( Given away at COMDEX ) lists just under 600 apps.
>Check the release dates. most ( I estimate, but haven't counted them ) say 93'
>about:
>30% 1st 1/2 of 93, 
>40% late 93'
>20% 92'
>
>Estimate of those that even list a ship date.
>
>Now Let's analyze this. Microsoft didn't have the Dev CD ROM until when? 
>April ? OK, lets be generous and say early ones last January.
>
>They have been developing on an unstable, moving target. It wasn't even Feature
>complete ( if it is now ) until Late October.
>
>If the Development tools are relatively good, documentation is good ( Microsoft
>usually provides the best documentation around, if they choose to document it)
>, and the developers have had little trouble ugrading NT and the development
>tools, as upgrades are released, they will have had one 1 to 1/2 years of time
>to work on NT. Now given the fact that these tools were beta, prone to bugs,
>and the real beta didn't actually appear until October, they will have had 
>9 - 12 Months of time developing an app based on beta tools.
>
>Now real software development is not buying a compiler, an editor, and typing
>away. It is Design, coding, and testing. let's say 1/3 for each.
>How can you realistically design a product for an OS that hasn't been fully 
>specified?
>Lets say it was fully specified by June, and feature complete by October.
>Now NT developers could have started design in June. lets say 3 Months for
>a small app. Started Coding in October, and Testing in January thru March.
>
>As we all probably know, take your worst estimates and double them.
>
>That puts most of these "Almost Ready to Ship" apps into 94'
>

>
>Michael Kupka

I hate to say this about my chosen platform, but it can be applied to
NT, to a point.

NeXT publishes something called the "Software and Peripherals Catalog"
There are a few hundred apps in it.

Most of the apps listed in the spring '92 copy aren't shipping.
This on a platform which many consider to be the best development platform.
An independent study showed that programmers from other platforms where
taught to program NeXT's they wrote NeXT apps in 1/3 to 1/9 of the time,
with 20% of the code.

If people writing NeXT apps are taking this long, on an established os
in it's 3rd generation, I find it hard to believe that all those NT apps
will ship before  94. Maybe mid-94, depending on when NT really ships.

-- 
Jonathan W. Hendry
Drexel University College Of Information Studies
Anderson Financial Systems "Programmer-in-Exile" :)
hendryjw@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu (No NEXTMail :( )
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: philco@microsoft.com (Phillip Cooper)
Subject: Re: MS-Windows help-file format
Date: 11 Jan 93 17:51:22 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1993Jan10.233300.15189@cs.uoregon.edu> tracer@majestix.cs.uoregon.edu (Roger M. Wilcox) writes:
>In article <wmtwen.726321941@rw8.urc.tue.nl> wmtwen@urc.tue.nl writes:
>>
>>could someone on this newsgroup please mail me some information on the
>>exact fileformat of the helpfiles for MS-windows. I really need this
>>information for some help-file processing program I am planning to
>
>
>Hoo boy.  Help under Windows.  The blessings of Hypertext, and the Curse of
>Microsoft's read-only mentality.
>
>The process for creating a Help file -- which even Microsoft's own Windows
>SDK documentation doesn't talk about! -- is to:
>

Have you checked out the SDK "Programming Tools" manual lately??  You might
want to pay special attention to Chapter 3.

>	1. Create a file in Microsoft Word with some special footnotes and
>	   character attributes.
>
>	2. Save this file in Microsoft's Rich Text Format (.RTF), which only
>	   Microsoft Word can produce.  (What was that the FTC was saying
>	   about Monopolistic practices?)
>

Many word processors can create RTF files.  Get the RTF spec and you can
even do it with Edlin.

>	3. If you're feeling really masochistic, create a Help Project File
>	   (.HPJ), which has a command syntax about on the same obscurity
>	   level as LINK's Module Definition (.DEF) files, which you will
>	   noticed were *also* invented by Microsoft.
>	4. Run the .RTF (or .HPJ) file through Microsoft's Help Compiler
>	   (HC.EXE).
>
>	5. Look at the Help file in Windows' WINHELP application, and wince
>	   at how nothing looks the way you wanted it to.
>

Really now...  Is it Winhelp's fault that you did not build the RTF file
correctly (at least for the visual display you wanted)?  :)  Just as an
aside, I happen to agree that the process for creating Windows help files
could (should) be made a bit easier.

Phil Cooper
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: ray@Celestial.COM (Ray Jones)
Subject: Re: Tidbits 01/06/93
Organization: Celestial Software, Mercer Island, WA
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:58:48 GMT

In <1993Jan9.180212.29745@grebyn.com> mfraioli@grebyn.com (Marc Fraioli) writes:
[lot of stuff deleted]
>>
>>I don't think Uniphiles will jump ship.  Not with Linux, 386BSD and other
>>solutions on the market.  According to a report generated from Locus
>>Computing Inc, NT doesn't even come close to replacing Unix.  NT will
>>appeal to Windows 3.1 users with lots of CPU/RAM/Disk space to spare who
>>hate either IBM or OS/2.
>>
>I agree with this assessment.  I know that many will complain that Linux
>and 386BSD don't count because they require a fair amount of technical
>savvy to use and maintain.  However, Unix has so far been largely the
>domain of fairly technical users.  I think that NT and OS/2 will see
>that it remains so, more or less, but I don't think that either will be
>able to break into the technical areas where Unix has traditionally been
>dominant.
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Lots of people have the misconception that UNIX is only for the techies -not
so.  In most LARGE comercial installations, UNIX has been made so simple to
use that the end user has no idea he/she is on a UNIX box.  Next time you
order a Big Mac with McFries just remember that the kid behind the counter
is working on a UNIX terminal.
-- 
INTERNET:  ray@Celestial.COM   Ray A. Jones; Celestial Software
UUCP:   ...!thebes!camco!ray   6641 East Mercer Way
             uunet!camco!ray   Mercer Island, WA 98040; (206) 947-5591
The probability of one or more spelling errors in this missive approaches
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: dawe@nobeltech.se (Daniel Wengelin)
Subject: Features of the Windows NT
Organization: NobelTech AB
Distribution: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 14:02:44 GMT


Hi all you Windows NT experts!

Having browsed through the last few hundred articles, I have found
less facts than feelings, so the reason why I checked this newsgroup
out is still there.

I would want know what the features of the Windows NT are!

Is NT an operating system? 
In that case, what's the process model and scheduling like? How
does NT relate to the Posix standard of OS interfacing? Does it
distinguish between light-weight and heavy-weight processes? What's
the priority range? Is dynamic priorities supported? What's the
performance of a context switch on any specified hw? How's process
communication performed? Built in rendezvous mechanisms? Mailboxes?

Is NT distributed? (Weird question, but stilistically required...)
In that case, how is the sharing of resources over a network 
supported by NT? How does NT support remote procedure calls? Remote
rendezvous? Is the problem of hetrogenous enviroments addressed? 
(Maybe a 'Float' on an Intel is interpreted as a ?? on the Alpha)


Is NT a GUI/window manager/MMI-sw specification?
In that case, how does it relate to other window managers? Could
X11 be run on top of NT? At what level of abstraction is the interface?

Is NT now or later?
If later, when?



As you have concluded, I'm into  distributed real-time systems and know
_nothing_ about Windows NT. If you've noticed that Ada is the language
of my application, you're Eagle-eyed and right.


                Yours truely
                               Daniel


----------------------------------------------------------------
!    with Standard_Disclaimer;                                 !
----------------------------------------------------------------
!    Daniel Wengelin               ! E-mail: dawe@nobeltech.se !
!    Systems analysis and design   ! Phone : +46 8 58084000    !
!    NobelTech Systems             ! Fax   : +46 8 58081542    !
!    Naval Systems Division        ! Mail  : S-17588 Jarfalla  !
!                                  !         SWEDEN            !
----------------------------------------------------------------
! NobelTech: Winner of the -92 Ada Industry Leadership Award   !
----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: tracer@majestix.cs.uoregon.edu (Roger M. Wilcox)
Subject: Re: MS-Windows help-file format
Organization: University of Oregon Computer and Information Sciences Dept.
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 23:33:00 GMT

In article <wmtwen.726321941@rw8.urc.tue.nl> wmtwen@urc.tue.nl writes:
>
>could someone on this newsgroup please mail me some information on the
>exact fileformat of the helpfiles for MS-windows. I really need this
>information for some help-file processing program I am planning to


Hoo boy.  Help under Windows.  The blessings of Hypertext, and the Curse of
Microsoft's read-only mentality.

The process for creating a Help file -- which even Microsoft's own Windows
SDK documentation doesn't talk about! -- is to:

	1. Create a file in Microsoft Word with some special footnotes and
	   character attributes.

	2. Save this file in Microsoft's Rich Text Format (.RTF), which only
	   Microsoft Word can produce.  (What was that the FTC was saying
	   about Monopolistic practices?)

	3. If you're feeling really masochistic, create a Help Project File
	   (.HPJ), which has a command syntax about on the same obscurity
	   level as LINK's Module Definition (.DEF) files, which you will
	   noticed were *also* invented by Microsoft.
	4. Run the .RTF (or .HPJ) file through Microsoft's Help Compiler
	   (HC.EXE).

	5. Look at the Help file in Windows' WINHELP application, and wince
	   at how nothing looks the way you wanted it to.

That's the process for *creating* a Help (.HLP) file.  To this date I don't
think anyone, including Microsoft, has any inkling of what a Help file's
internal format is.  (They don't need to.  The only people who have to know
about Help formats are the guys who make WinHelp and the guys who make the
Help Compiler.)  After all, God forbid that anyone should stumble upon a
help file's format and be able to (shudder) modify it!  Then WinHelp could
actually be, you know, USEFUL, like HyperCard or something!  And before
you know it, these commie pinko fascist help file modifying slime will be
demanding writeable NewEXE resources and making the file system as useful as
the one in MacOS!!

The again, MacOS only supports one-button mice and doesn't have Child Windows,
so we're still ahead of the game for now.

-- 
Roger *M.* Wilcox   (aka Jeff Boeing)
tracer@majestix.cs.uoregon.edu
Aleph null bottles of beer on the wall, aleph null bottles of beer, ...
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: sichermn@csulb.edu (Jeff Sicherman)
Subject: Re: FCC will proclaim Microsoft is run by Communists! : )
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:55:07 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.100912.18315@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> helz@ecn.purdue.edu (Randall A Helzerman) writes:
>In article <1iilanINN610@shelley.u.washington.edu>, tzs@carson.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes:
>|> helz@ecn.purdue.edu (Randall A Helzerman) writes:
>|> >is too large, too complex, and too inequitable.  Moreover, the laws on the
>|> >books are both unjust and vaguly written--stuffed with Orwellian phrases like
>|> >"unfair," "anticompetative" etc. which have no real meaning and therefore
>|> >can be twisted into applying to about any sitation if you can afford enough
>|> >twisty lawyers.
>|> 
>|> Out of curiosity, how would you write laws that do not have words like
>|> "unfair" in them, or equivalent words?
>|> 
>|> --Tim Smith
>
>The Constitution is an wonderful model of clear legal writing.
>
>For example:
>
> 13th Amendment
> Sect. 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a 
> punishment for crime, whereof the party shall have been duly 
> convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place 
> subject to their jurisdiction. 
> Sect. 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by 
> appropriate legislation. 
>
>
>It doesn't say "unfair labor contracts will be invalid."  What is "fair?"
>It says "Involuntary servitude shall not exist in the United States."
>
>I'm sure we can all agree on a definition of "voluntary" :-)

  We can probably all agree on a definition of coercion too, and then
we'll be back where we started.


-- 
Jeff Sicherman
up the net without a .sig
Xref: sparky comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy:3753 comp.os.os2.advocacy:11982
From: jeh@cmkrnl.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: A radical idea
Date: 9 Jan 93 10:08:16 GMT
Organization: Kernel Mode Consulting, San Diego, CA

In article <1993Jan8.153322.888@aspentec.com>, tto@aspentec.com writes:
> I have a radical idea.  Let the federal government take over the rights
> of DOS-OS/2-NT by eminent domain and turn it over to a neutral organization
> like OSF.  Let this organization come up with a reasonable operating
> system that everyone can use.

It's been done.  

Pnce many years ago, an agency of the U.S. government was asked to come up with
a "reasonable" piece of software that "everyone can use".  They came up with
the original specs for COBOL. 

They tried again recently, and gave us Ada. 

For that matter, Berkeley Unix was financed largely by DoD (ARPA) contracts. 
The government wanted TCP/IP added to Unix.  They had TCP/IP on DEC 10's and
20's, but they wanted it on an operating system that could run on more than
one vendor's equipment.  Now, TCP/IP networking is fine, but Berkeley also
gave us a version of Unix so different from Bell Labs' version that porting
code between them is often non-trivial. 

> I don't think the government or anyone outside the software industry
> realize how much the progress of software technology (and hence the whole
> computing area) has been thwarted by this confusion.  It is vital
> to the software industry as the HDTV standard is vital to the electronics
> industry.

Rubbish.  You can't adopt just one OS because it will either lack features 
that some people need, or if it will do everything that everyone needs, it
will be bigger than VMS, System V Unix, and BSD Unix all put together. 

Riddle me this:  A typical configuration for the original IBM PC came with 64K
of memory and no high-capcity disk drive -- only floppies.  Unix was available
back then.  By your criteria Unix should have been squeezed into these tiny
machines.  Instead we got DOS.  DOS has its share of problems but it (or
something very much like it -- ie very small) was needed then.  It's still
needed on lots of small PCs.  Judging by the huge number of good and
inexpensive DOS applications, I'd say that the early lack of Unix on the PC
hasn't impeded progress much.  

	--- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Consulting, San Diego CA
drivers, internals, networks, applications, and training for VMS and Windows-NT
uucp 'g' protocol guru and release coordinator, VMSnet (DECUS uucp) W.G., and 
Chair, Programming and Internals Working Group, U.S. DECUS VMS Systems SIG 
Internet:  jeh@cmkrnl.com, hanrahan@eisner.decus.org, or jeh@crash.cts.com
Uucp:  ...{crash,eisner,uunet}!cmkrnl!jeh
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: furballs@sequent.com (Paul Penrod)
Subject: Re: OS which beats MS-DOS and OS/2?
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 02:28:57 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.011958.4601@cs.brown.edu> atropos@netlab.cis.brown.edu (David O'Donnell) writes:
>In article <1993Jan08.170104.16193@Celestial.COM> ray@Celestial.COM (Ray Jones) writes:
>
>>An OS superior to MS-DOS and OS/2?  They have, it runs on Intel-based CPUs
>>and on almost every other computer on the planet.  It is called UNIX.
>>  Try it, you might even like it.
>
>Great! Does it run Windows apps? I do so like my Norton Desktop and ProComm+
>and Word and ...
>

Well, it is my understanding that there is a version or two of SYS
V.4.2 that supports Windows applications. I Think it might come
from USL.

>[shades of "I'm sorry, HAL, but you're just not IBM-compatible..."]
>
>--Dave


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
            Bureaucracy: noun, plural - Bureaucracies.
         The process of turning energy into solid waste.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: ekl@kvamdata.no (Eirik Lygre)
Subject: Re: Tidbits 01/06/93
Organization: Kvam data as
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1993 11:39:20 GMT

In article <1ii1s1INNm72@cae.cad.gatech.edu> chris@cad.gatech.edu (Chris McClellen) writes:
>
>Welcome back, brian!
>

I'll second that!
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: olavt@ulrik.uio.no (Olav Torvund)
Subject: Re: DEC bets the company on NT?  WRONG!
Organization: University of Oslo, Norway
	<1993Jan7.201659.7143@gw.wmich.edu>
	<1993Jan8.033435.1523@ryn.mro4.dec.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 12:27:44 GMT

According to a DEC publication, DEC will give you the choice of
Open-VMS, Unix OSF/1 and Win NT on their Alpha machines. So they are
not betting on NT. And in the same publication, Alpha is refferred to
as a 64-bit system (no 32-bit mentioned), so I do not think that a
new, not yet released, untested 32-bit OS without any applications yet
(only a lot of promises) will be the first choice on Alpha machines,
neither for DEC nor for their customers.

Olav Torvund
University of Oslo
Norway
Olavjus







































fg
  



















Olavt@jus.uio.no

Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: rwh@moose.cccs.umn.edu (RICHARD HOFFBECK)
Subject: Re: FCC will proclaim Microsoft is run by Communists! : )
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Reply-To: rwh@moose.cccs.umn.edu
Organization: Colon Cancer Control Study, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:21:00 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.102938.1271@yvax.byu.edu>, sean@digaudio.byu.edu writes:
> In article <1iqff8INNd45@shelley.u.washington.edu>  writes:
> >chriswa@microsoft.com (Chris Waldron) writes:
> >>prior to coming to Microsoft.  Another point that I believe weakens the  
> FTC
> >>case is Apple's tight control over their hardware and system software is
> >>apparently unaddressed.
> >
> >Huh?  Apple is irrelevant to any FTC case against Microsoft.  If both Apple
> >and Microsoft are doing things that call for an FTC investigation, there is
> >no reason that the investigations would have to take place at the same  
> time.
>  
>  
> We must also remember that Apple is not publishing applications:  okay,  
> there's Claris, but Apple's organizational connections to Claris are  
> questionable, and Claris certainly isn't producing the #1 spreadsheet, word  
> processor, presentation package, etc., for the Mac platform.  

But MS doesn't have the best selling spreadsheet, database, wordprocessor,
or presentation package in the Windows market. The fact that crippled
versions of MS's Windows apps are the best sellers in the Mac market
says alot about the Mac, but little about MS's trade practices.

The Commission is due to meet on February 5th so we should have all the
details by then. 

--rick

Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: The sin of MicroSoft
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 01:35:01 GMT

tto@aspentec.com writes:
: When I was an undergraduate in the early 70's, I, like many of my fellow
: computer science students, felt a natural resentment towards IBM.  The
: feeling was nicely summarized in an article that I read a long time ago.
: I cannot remember who the author was and what the exact wording is; but 
: the essence is that
: 
:     The sin of IBM is that they has lead the public into adopting too
:     narrow a view of what a computer should and can be.
: 
: It is not that IBM has done anything illegal or immoral.  It is just that

Actually they did plenty of both.

: the world would have been much better if IBM had done more, such as
: spending more time in developing a decent time sharing operating system,
: such as adopting an open system policy, etc, etc.  Instead, they tell
: people that they should only use batch, should buy hardware and software
: only from IBM, and whatever IBM does not offer is not good for your
: company.  (Need I give more examples?)
: 
: History has a tendency to repeat itself.  I sometimes wondered what the
: world of computing world would be like had Multics been developed
: for the 360.

Now you're talking - that was a real OS.

--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
From: stefan@olson.acme.gen.nz (Stefan Olson)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: MS-Windows help-file format
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 21:58:18 +1200

In <1993Jan10.233300.15189@cs.uoregon.edu> tracer@majestix.cs.uoregon.edu (Roger M. Wilcox) writes:
>	2. Save this file in Microsoft's Rich Text Format (.RTF), which only
>	   Microsoft Word can produce.  (What was that the FTC was saying
>	   about Monopolistic practices?)

Two points.
Point 1: Lotus Ami Pro for Windows can save in RTF format.
Point 2: I am 1/4 of the way through writing a visual help file
creator for windows, where what you type and see in the
editor is what you see in the help file.

...Stefan

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Stefan Olson                     Mail: stefan@olson.acme.gen.nz
   Kindness in giving creates love.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy