HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave)
Subject: Re: Openings.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:56:26 GMT
Reply-To: stave@apollo.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA

In article <QfM7grL0Bwx2QsxH02@transarc.com>,
Stephen_Y._Chan@transarc.com writes:
|> 	We have 2 different viewpoints on the matter:
|> 
|> 	1) No matter how good the martial artist is, there are _always_
|> openings which can be exploited by their opponent(s).
|> 
|> 	2) The _best_ martial artists do not give their opponents _any_
|> openings to exploit. Either by timing, or positioning, the openings
|> only occur when and where their opponent(s) cannot take advantage of them.

I think even the best martial artists have openings, but their opponents
must be just as skilled (or more so) in order to successfully take
advantage of them.

Joel Stave
stave@apollo.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: comptec92024@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Greenoch History
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 01:44:42 GMT


Ok, I will bit. What is the history of Greenoch? It sounds to me that it may be
in the vain of that anchient and secreat Welsh art Lapgoush aka Monty Python.

Mac.
From: shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Evil Black Belts (Re: Fighting against animals?)
Date: 26 Jan 1993 18:09:16 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mickey.think.com

In article <C1FLD2.EoJ@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, shulick@cineret.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
|> 
|> BTW, thanks, everyone, for your replies on "Fights & blackbelt
|> confidence."  While that topic still exists, have any of you known any
|> "evil" blackbelts?  I.e., blackbelts who use their knowledge and prowess
|> in bad ways.. beating people up, etc.  It's a scary thing. :)

Yes. In the armed services I ran across a black belt who taught unarmed
combat.  He took a perverse delight in pointlessly demonstrating
techniques of unarmed combat to novices - painfully.  He took
uninitiated recruits and asked them to attack.  When they did
he reacted forcefully, more that was necessary, to show how
the attacker could be incapacitated.  It was pure sadism and served
no purpose.  When volunteers were not forthcoming, he began
to select people from among the recruits and demonstrate.
All this, in an "introductory" first session.

A friend of mine was there one month after me, shoto kan 3rd dan, judo
1st dan, and got extremely upset. He is tall and skinny and managed to get
himself selected to demonstrate a "defense against a kick".  My friend
told the idiot that he didn't want to, and the guy (who was large at
195, about 95 Kgs), said to get on with it or he would "get really nasty".
Suffice to say that he needed major orthodontal treatment after being
kicked in the face with a size 11 army boot.

My friend "inherited" the instructor's position shortly after
he completed his basic training and an advanced course.

-- 
Shai Guday              | Stealth bombers,
OS Software Engineer    |
Thinking Machines Corp. |	the winged ninjas of the skies.
Cambridge, MA           |
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Greenoch History
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:14:54 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1993Jan25.225307.1@fnalo.fnal.gov> birmingh@fnalo.fnal.gov (Phillip J. Birmingham) writes:
>In article <1993Jan26.001502.3882@craycos.com>, sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi) writes:
>> In article <C1Dy8M.3Mr@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> shulick@cineret.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
>>>
>>>Seriously.. what *IS* Greenoch?
>>>
>> 
>> Seriously, Greenoch is the second-best martial art in the whole, damned
>> world...
>
>         Uhh, what's the first? Meik-do?

Actually, it's the secret ancient art of )*(^YOVB^RC&X$%*(^&%CKC $#&^XEUD
NO CARRIER
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd)
Subject: Re: Initiation of motion
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 20:41:45 GMT
	<Jan.20.03.05.07.1993.12962@ruhets.rutgers.edu>
Organization: University of Utah

In article <Jan.20.03.05.07.1993.12962@ruhets.rutgers.edu> farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris) writes:

   In article <1993Jan19.145856.21546@sei.cmu.edu>, psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:
   :
   :Here is something for the group think tank:
   :
   :Lu Ping Zhang has often told me that I should begin any strike, kick, etc.,
   :as an acceleration from zero grams (figurative "grams" here) to 1000.   Later
   :with Barry Perrino, this idea is expressed as being "non-telegraphic," that
   :is, any tension at all at the beginning of a motion will reveal your intention
   :to strike + if you are tense at the beginning of the strike, you are directly
   [rest deleted]

   But the point is, the effectiveness of the technique was optimized by
   being as totally relaxed as possible before the very instant of
   applying it.

Relaxation definitely is part of the key to speed.  My Karate teacher
likened it to having you car in neutral; you can shift to forward or
reverse equally quickly.

The other important part is stealth.  The application of power must be
smooth and gradual.  You should not jerk from neutral into gear.
Although it sounds like you could get to full speed faster if you
dumped the clutch, this is not true.  If you apply your power
smoothly, you can get part of the way to your desired position before
your opponent notices that you are coming.

Having studied both Karate and Kendo, it seems to me that the stealth
phenomenon is somewhat more exploitable in Kendo, since you can hide
your footwork under your hakama, and use your sword to help you
deceive your opponent about your true interval (maai).  Of course,
experienced Kendoists are not often fooled by fancy footwork and a
little extension of the arms.

--
jonathan byrd
jon@apollo.med.utah.edu
From: rterry@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Ray Terry)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Re: Puzzled - History of Korean MAs
Date: 24 Jan 93 06:07:59 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino

> Wait a minute - didn't the Japanese suppress all martial arts in Korea?

For most of their occupation, they tried.  But, of course, that failed to work
as many of the Korean masters continued to teach in secret.

Ray
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: Evil Black Belts (was : Fighting against animals?)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:54:20 GMT

In article <ofNfmaH0Bwx2QgXBx_@transarc.com> Stephen_Y._Chan@transarc.com writes:

RE:  Count Dante

>	As I understand it, he was essentially a street fighter posing
>as a formal MA teacher. 

I believe he had a 2nd dan (or 3rd) under Robert Trias and was
an up and comer in the early 1960s.  Then he developed an attitude
and so did his Black Dragon Fighting Society.  His students were
aggressive, but not well-trained.

>He liked to trash other people's schools, and
>earned lots of enemies that way - didn't he eventually he came to an
>unfortunate (but well deserved) ending?

I remember one of his friends was killed by a spear after they
attacked a Chinese kwoon in Chicago.  Dante was an alchoholic and may
have died of that (ie. I don't remember!).

Dakin
burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: doug@UC780.UMD.EDU (Deac Moo of the UGC)
Subject: Re: Carjacking, part two
Reply-To: doug@UC780.UMD.EDU
Organization: The University of Maryland, University College
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:53:22 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.061746.11930@alw.nih.gov>, drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:

>In the shooting outside the CIA the
>other day for example, nobody abandoned their vehicles.                             
>Everybody hung in there at the stoplight while the gunman
>strolled back along the line of stopped cars, methodically
>perforating five drivers.  You stick with your car if you like.  
>I'm getting out of the kill zone.

Yes, but would you have saved yourself first, or tried to delay the
gunman? Just what DO you do when some person sticks a high powered rifle
up to your window and opens up?

For an alleged wacko, he got away pretty smooth. 

                               ******
   Net postings: Demonstrating the lack of quality psychotherapy in the world.
From: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Judo: the value of competition.
Date: 21 Jan 1993 16:43:58 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: danzan.ebay.sun.com

In article 374@ms.uky.edu, satadd00@nx24.mik.uky.edu (scott andrew taddiken) writes:
>Recently, Dave and I have been disputing over the rules of judo, and over the
>value of modern judo competition.  Dan suggested that this boils down to the
>"Competition is good."/"Competition is bad." argument that comes up all the
>time on this net.  I don't agree.
>
>The best working definition of judo I know is "That which was founded by Kano."
>(To be polite to the jujutsuka, perhaps I should say that is the definition of
>_Kodokan_ judo, known popularly as just "judo").
>
>As such, the following things are not in dispute:
>
>1) Randori (free practice) is the most important form of judo training.
>2) Competitions are a useful form of judo training.
>
>If you do dispute these things, I will reproduce quotes from the relevant
>text(s) to show you that you and Kano do not agree.

Scott follows with a good synopis of our differing viewpoints.
But...the above is in dispute. Kata placed a very important role in
Judo. Draeger's "Formal Techniques of Judo" print several statements
from the diaries of Kano to this effect.

I do not disagree that Randori is important. I seem to be in an extreme
minority in my Org with this position. I believe a balance is needed so
that neither Randori nor Kata are practiced in extreme (age and physical
conditions permitting). 

WRT the definition of Judo...Competition is not the end-all as it seems
to be in the USJF and USJA. This has been discussed in the past. Moreover,
Kano had many Kata in Kodokan Judo which is constantly ignored because 
the emphasis is on "what works in competition". 

Also, WRT the definition of Judo, I wrote an article based on some of the
things I was taught as well as the meaning -do within the framework of 
oriental thinking. For years, I thought I was studying "good ol' Judo",
only to find out it was entirely different in that it was not based on
Kodokan at all. We did Kata and Randori and except for some differences
in names (ie; Seoi Goshi vs. Seoi Nage and Seoi Nage vs. Ippon Seoi Nage), 
at a fundamental level, we seemed to be fairly akin. However, Judo always
meant something more. It always referred to the Way someone practiced, the
attitude with which one comported themselves. 

So, the best working definition of Judo is not Kodokan Judo. I tend to
identify the following: Judo - a manner of training which leads to the
perfecting of one's character; Kodokan Judo, that which was established
by Kano and developed by many of the leading Jujutsuka of his time, developed
and esposed for propagation the underlying principles of character development;
American Judo - a sportive style based somewhat loosely on Kodokan Judo;
International Judo - similiar to American Judo in emphasis but more 
hybridized.

---
Dave Scheid - All Disclaimers Apply
From: esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Eric Sotnak)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Is chi/ ki real?
Date: 25 Jan 93 21:46:50 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <77514@apple.apple.COM> mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:

>If I recall correctly, there remains one reputable researcher with
>positive (though very modest) claims about PK. (Unforftunately,
>I've forgotten the fellow's name. I could probably dig it up, but
>it would involve some searching; I don't follow this stuff closely).

  You are probably thinking of Robert Jahn at the Princeton Engineering
Anomolies Research something or other.  What Jahn has recorded is
statistical anomolies which APPEAR to be somehow related to conscious
influence to a statistically significant, yet amazingly small degree.  Thus
far there is no conclusive duplication of this research, nor have
alternative explanations been ruled out to the satisfaction of many
skeptics.  The research is critiqued in _Science and Supernature_ by Marks
and Kamman (I think those are the authors).  Someone on sci.skeptic would
almost certainly have more details.  Direct followups there.

  As for the Chinese research into qi, some of it has been shown to have had
gross disregard for proper controls.  James (The Amazing) Randi tested some
qi specialists on a visit to China a few years back.  The qi masters were,
without exception, completely unable to demonstrate their claims when strict
protocols were observed.  One of these guys had had an entire hospital built
and funded just for him.  Details of these tests were written up about 5
years ago in "The Skeptical Inquirer".

--
********************************************************************
Eric Sotnak                   |  One life.
esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu    |  One chance. 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: gaff@sr.com (Jon Gaff)
Subject: New "Kung Fu" TV show airs Wed. Jan. 27, 8pm
Reply-To: gaff@srhqla.sr.com (Jon Gaff)
Organization: Silent Radio, Los Angeles
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:50:49 GMT

Here in L.A., the new "Kung Fu" TV series will air on Ch. 13 (KCOP).  THe
2-hr. pilot airs this wednesday at 8 pm.  Not sure if this date/time will
apply to other areas of the country, but check your local independent
affiliate.  I'm sure we'll all have LOTS to talk about after it airs...

Concerning Carradine's MA ability / knowledge & history, experience, etc.
Carradine was chosen for the role of Kwai-Chang Caine largely because
the executive producer of the orginal series, Jerry Thorpe, had seen
Carradine in a play in New York ("The Royal Hunt of the Sun") and liked
his acting / personna as the Aztec priest.  Carradine had dance and gym-
nastics experience before starting the series, but no MA training.  I 
think he said he'd never even heard the term "kung fu" before.

Carradine reportedly never really studied that much (tyhe rigors of
just doing a weekly TV series being what they are) until after the
series was cancelled.  'Course, from watching his various movies since
the series, you can argue that he still hasn't studied much ;-)..

I do know that I was sorely disappointed ny his lack of basic historical
understanding of MAs after reading "The Spirit of Shaolin."  He damn near
misspells every MA there is, and then goes on to describe some MA's in
terms that are not even accurate of their structure and philosophy.  I
felt that Carradine had done a grave disservice by expounding "expert"
analysis of things that he clearly had no expertise or real understanding of.
But because people see him on the series and unknowingly think he really
knows "pure" shaolin, they may be apt to believe what he says about certain
aspects of MA and find out later that things are different.

Carradine's sifu is Kam Yuen, the old series' technical advisor.  So
Carradine has studied Tai Mantis, a school of praying mantis (northern).
And Carradine's Tai Chi workout video was a scream.  The way he would stare
into the camera and talk in low, ominous tones had me rolling.  But the
lack of real substance in the video, plus it's 'Jane Fonda-ish" dancerise
apporach to Tai Chi left much to be desired.  Too bad.  

-- 
Jon Gaff / SilentRadio head tech support bozo.
From: actize@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Dojo(jang)s - Home Away From Home
Date: 26 Jan 1993 06:36:00 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: ba
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

"Speaking of a dojang to go to... WAAAH! :)  Our "dojang" is NICE.  Red
floor mat, nicely padded.  Warm room, plenty of space.  So the catch?
It's in the phys'ed building and LOCKED while classes are not in
session!  So I don't have that "home away from home."  Kinda sucks. :("

Good to hear from you again Sam, and good point.  The original point in
question was fighting in arcades.  Where can the kids go instead of arcades?
From: poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Happenstance Weapons
Date: 25 Jan 93 21:10:43 GMT
Reply-To: poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

In article <63687@mimsy.umd.edu> tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
>azw@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Michael Woodward) writes:
>>(If anyone has a direct use for a postage stamp, 
>>you are better at this game than me.)
>     Glue a pair of them over someone's eyes?

Waaaaaaaaaaahhh!!

Papercut on my eyeball!

David Poore
poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: What in the world...
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 02:41:19 GMT

In article <gate.RFusXB1w165w@omega.oche.de> btv@omega.oche.de (Fitos Imre) writes:
>osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>
>>       Don't I now?  You BET I do!  Why in hell do you think I have such
>>       an intense terror/pleasure relationship with them?  They scare the
>>       living shit out of me and I absolutely LOVE it.  Follow-ups to
>>       alt.sex.bondage.kunoichi.hubba-hubba.
>>>
>>>And why not.  I used to know a few and some were quite attractive.
>>
>>       Ayuh.  Scary, ain't it?
>
>Yeah, especially when knocked out while foreplay...Don't laugh!
	
	Me??  LAUGH?  About THIS???   NEVER!!!!

>Fitos Imre, 

	What's this?!  ANOTHER Hungarian??!  Yo SOG, looks like we've got
	us some company!

	-Andy V.

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: yfkimura@seas.gwu.edu (Yusuke F. Kimura)
Subject: Xing Yi offered in NoVA
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:19:19 GMT

Hello all of you MA-ers out there!
	If any of you are in the Northern Virginia area and would like to attend classes/seminar once a month or so for Xing Yi, please send me some mail.  There will be pseudo-regular classes scheduled in a Karate dojo near Van Dorn Metro.  The teacher in Mr. Ed Hampton, high-degree blackbelt in Karate, and six-year student of Xing Yi.  He lives in Blacksburg VA, so can only come once a month or so.  The next class will be sometime in FEB.  (I'll get back to you on the time and exact date.)
	He's trying to open a school here, so anyone and everyone is welcome.
	Thanx for your time.
							Yusuke Fred Kimura
yfkimura@seas.gwu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: shulick@cineret.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick)
Subject: Fighting against animals?
Originator: shulick@cineret
Reply-To: shulick@cineret.ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: Vallen Software
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:34:14 GMT


Basically, the only animal that we (humans) would most likely be
attacked by is a large dog.  And from experience, they sometimes like to
run and then leap at you.  Umm, how should I phrase this?  Are there any
books, or any info... or even an ART that teach how to defend against
animals?  I remember a long time ago, our neighbors had dobermans, and I
would deliberately talk a different, longer route just to avoid them.
Once, I rode my bike by quickly, hoping I'd escape, but one of them ran
at me and pulled me off my bike (I was about 10 years old).  So, any
info?  Just curious, as I think defense against dogs could prove to be
useful at some point.  Thanks!

BTW, thanks, everyone, for your replies on "Fights & blackbelt
confidence."  While that topic still exists, have any of you known any
"evil" blackbelts?  I.e., blackbelts who use their knowledge and prowess
in bad ways.. beating people up, etc.  It's a scary thing. :)

-- 
    // Amiga 3000   ___ \ Sam Hulick: shulick@indiana.edu (NeXTmail OK!)
   // 68030 25 MHz /__/\ \  )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\// OS 2.04       \__\/ / (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
 \/                     /   )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
From: david@xlnt.com (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: T'ai Chi or Pa Kua in Palo Alto area
Date: 20 Jan 93 17:44:50 GMT
Organization: XLNT Designs, Inc (XDI)

In article <1jftj0$plq@agate.berkeley.edu>, robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:
|> In article <1312@xlnt.COM> david@xlnt.com (David Johnson) writes:
|> >My teacher told
|> >us about the mind games his teacher liked to test prospective students
|> >with.  His teacher continued to play games to some degree even after
|> >accepting the person as a student.
|> 
|> Do you have any details?  Some of us might find them useful for future
|> reference.

At his first interview with his then prospective teacher, the teacher
made him wait for a few hours and never did come out to meet him at that
first interview.
The teacher did observe his behavior while he waited.  The teacher took
note of things like: did he wait patiently or did was he restless?
If you do not wait patiently you are not accepted.  Even after acceptance,
all that was done in regular classes was conditioning.  The real stuff
was taught in special classes held at midnight.  I think he said that
those classes were by special invitation.

A previous poster pointed out that you usually need proper introduction.
My teacher confirms this.  He could not have had that first interview
had he not had been recommended earlier.

My previous teacher here in San Diego played mind games with his
students too.  I do not really know his motivation.  My current
teacher does not play those games.

-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mhirsch@dynastar.princeton.edu (Michael Hirsch)
Subject: Re: Fights and blackbelt confidence
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University Department of Computer Science
	<1993Jan24.080311.12042@craycos.com>
	<C1D4Gv.B5M@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:02:02 GMT

>>>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 1993 14:34:07 GMT, burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) said:

Dakin> I think all of us can tell similar stories, but I'll post mine just
Dakin> because no-one else has yet.

Dakin> I got beaten up as a youth by a gang of boys who were 2 grades above
Dakin> us.  I got into the martial arts so that wouldn't happen again.

[snip]

Dakin> 							But from what I hear
Dakin> about my hometown from my old friends, the rest of those guys became
Dakin> human beings shortly after I left, and spent a lot of time trying to
Dakin> make friends with the people they had abused in high school.  You 
Dakin> may be surprised at how life turns out Sam.

Yup.  I just went to an _elementary_ school reunion (really).  It was amazing.
No one picked on anyone, called anyone a wimp, or teased.  Non of the
"boys" grabbed the "girls," no one talked about "cooties," we even had
a kickball game without any fights breaking out.

Everyone seemed to be pretty nice, though I didn't think so when I
went to school with them.
--


Michael D. Hirsch		mhirsch@cs.princeton.edu    
Computer Science Department	Voice: (609) 258-1751       
Princeton NJ, 08544		FAX:   (609) 258-1771
From: pgullion@nyx.cs.du.edu (phillip gullion)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Swordmaker's Address: Repost please?
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:29:11 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.



Please repost the address of the Canadian swordmaker
posted by Tong L H Young. A reply to me at 
ppg@athena.uhc.uvm.edu would be appreciated as well.