HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 6 Sep 92 19:06:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: QueerNet

In article <6SEP199212285627@rosie.uh.edu> cosc177z@rosie.uh.edu (92H02966) writes:
>...since I wish to influence my
>children to be straight, I feel uncomfortable for them to be around 
>homosexuals.
>
>Homosexuals seem much more common
>than pedophiles so I am more concerned about a homosexual alone with my same
>sex child than I am about a straight person turning out to be a pedophile.
>
>Yea!  I didn't throw up this time.

Funny... *I* did.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG                 {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Reply-To: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Organization: Ingres Division, ASK Computer Systems.
Date: 10 Sep 92 22:55:39 GMT

Carl M. Kadie writes:
> I didn't say that the BSA lied. I said "their reply was apparently so
> vague that B of A thought the answer was no."

Sorry, I don't see what difference it makes.  Whether one thinks they
lied or purposely misled, the outcome is the same, and my ethics
don't let them off the hook for either.

Of course, neither has been established here.  Nor do we find,
in a similar situation, untruth, deception, or dissembling.

There are plenty of reasons to differ with BSA's policy here.
Accusations that they concealed it are neither needed nor
supported by the facts.

Again, for the record, I object to the policy.  It is no part
of the Scout movement, it conflicts with Scouting ideals, it's
a BSA national instant tradition of their own invention, and
it's simply wrong.

-- Jon

Jon Krueger  jpk@ingres.com  
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: eam@phx.mcd.mot.com (Ed Mohrman)
Subject: Re: Boards of Review
Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Tempe, Az.
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 00:29:19 GMT

>From: mgodbout@necis.UUCP (Marc Godbout)
>Subject: Boards of Review
>Date: 11 Sep 92 15:56:47 GMT
>Organization: NEC Information Systems, Acton, MA
>Lines: 7
>
>I've been told that when participating in a board of review, the reviewers
>should not spend any time grilling the scout on scout knowledge, but should
>more or less talk to him about his plans and goals.  I was wondering what other
>troops do.  What do you think the board of review is supposed to accomplish?
>Should we be preparing the scout for the Eagle board of review (whatever that
>is)?  How do you decide if the scout is ready or not for advancement?
>Thanks for any help you may have.
>

Good question.

We do quiz them on Scout knowledge. We find about 15% cant demonstrate
basic Scout kowledge when they get to their board of review. Apparently,
they can remember the skill for an hour or a day or ... - long enough to
get the skill marked off, but they forget it by the time they get to the
board of review. I think we have to avoid asking them stupid little
detail questions (like the kid who once asked a reviewee to name the 5 parts
of the ax...). We try to mix 50-50 scout skill and scout spirit questions.

--
Ed
From: daveh@frackit.UUCP (Dave Hultberg)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Okay, rec.scouting split - I'll help
Summary: language not subject is offensive
Date: 8 Sep 92 23:54:52 GMT
Organization: Esoteric Tribble Factory, Harrisburg, PA

In article <1992Sep04.160057.40139@watson.ibm.com>, strom@watson.ibm.com (Rob Strom) writes:

> I'm opposed to a split.  There isn't a large volume of posting
> on rec.scouting.   And I don't believe that policy issues and
> program issues are that separable.  All I see is that some
> folks are uncomfortable with the fact that some other folks
> are opposing one particular policy, and would like to move
> the discussion off the board.  If the split occurred, I don't
> believe that issues like attendance requirements for advancement
> will be moved over to policy, where in theory they belong.
> 
> I think the whole discussion about a split is just a pretext
> to quarantine the discussions about discrimination.  If it
> comes to a vote, I would vote no.

IMHO it isn't the subject that a lot of us disagree with, but in the
unscoutlike language and tone it is posted in.  I would like to be able
to have my Cub Scouts talk to Scouts in other states and countries, but
the profanity and name calling that goes on here makes that impossible. 
I am perfectly willing to have either side try to persuade the other or
me with rational arguments.  Profanity and name calling is
inappropriate, poor debating practice and not in keeping with the Scout
Law that the posters profess to practice.  

I don't think that splitting rec.scouting would work unless the
non-policy group is moderated.  If it isn't all of the current flames
will just be cross-posted to one more group.  

Dave Hultberg, Cubmaster Pack 196, Keystone Area Council
Eagle Scout Class of '67, Valley Forge Council

-- 
Private site: ka3uzr    |    Mechanicsburg, Pa.    |    Dave Hultberg
uunet!rutgers!psuvax1!eds1!wa3wbu!frackit!ka3uzr!daveh 
vogon1!wa3wbu!frackit!ka3uzr!daveh@psuvax1.psu.edu  
daveh@ka3uzr.uucp    -or-    ka3uzr!daveh@uunet.UU.NET
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2911 alt.discrimination:4194 chi.general:1030 alt.atheism:16742 alt.politics.homosexuality:5774
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 8 Sep 92 14:40:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: ddsw1.Bu9KrG.510
Distribution: usa
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger) writes:
: In article <Bu8tt2.91D@ddsw1.mcs.com> arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes:
: >philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara) writes:
: >:     Here's a question for you:  Why is it that homophobia is now
: >: the only acceptable form of discrimination in the U.S.?
: > 
: >For the simple reason that it is considered evil by the majority of
: >the population.  However, there are many such forms of discrimination
: >that are considered acceptable in the US.
: 
: By your standards "the people" should be able to discriminate against people
: who aren't Jewish, or Christian, or Islamic, on exactly the same grounds.
: Religion, in fact, >is< a choice -- and a conscious one at that.  Why is
: that not fair game as well?  In fact, some would argue that it is.
 
Sorry for the misunderstanding.  I was providing an objective response to the
question, from a viewpoint I do not share.  Although I do not share the PC
view of homosexual behaviour either, I do not consider it evil.  I leave that
to the religious fanatics.  I do not consider it just another alternate 
lifestyle but I do not propose discriminating against those who do but 
neither do I support special status for them.

There are two areas where I support a limited form of "discrimination" to 
protect the rights of others.  For one, I have serious reservations about
homosexual couples adopting children, who I suspect by most amazing
coincidence will become homosexual.

Secondly, as the group that brought us AIDS and the group that still has
the highest proportion of AIDS "victims", I feel most comfortable at arm's
length until or unless the individual's status is known.

Unfortunately, I would keep any know AIDS victim at arms length and I suppoes
that is a form of discrimination too but that is because our government
refuses to protect up from AIDS and I have to take what measure seem
appropriate to me.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 01:30:06 GMT

dusek@rtsg.mot.com (James P. Dusek) writes:

[...]
>	Japanese were *NOT* put into concentration camps during WW2.
>You are falling for media hype. There is a big difference between
>a consentration camp and a detainment camp.
[...]

From the Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd Edition:

  7 attrib.: concentration camp, a camp where non-combatants of a dis-
trict are accommodated, such as those instituted by Lord Kitchener dur-
ing the South African War of 1899-1902; one for the internment of polit-
ical prisoners, foreign nationals, etc., esp. as organized by the Nazi
regime in Germany before and during the war of 1939-45; also fig.; con-
centration cell Electr., a cell whose difference of potential is due to
the difference of concentration of the solutions in which the electrodes
are immersed.

- Carl
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara)
Subject: Re: Okay, rec.scouting take two...
Date: 04 Sep 92 17:50:30 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Sep3.165213.26705@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>There is no reason to split rec.scouting; the only problem is that
>people, such as Chris Evans, Carl Kadie, and others, have abused
>rec.scouting is order to promote their own atheist and/or gay
>rights agenda.   Part of this abuse is the cross-posting of articles
>to groups totally unrelated to Scouting, of which Mr. Kadie is probably
>the most flagrant violater.  The end result is that the same
>generic gay rights discussions and arguments get posted on rec.scouting,
>and thus clutter up the group for those of us who expected to be able
>to use it for legitimate Scouting discussions, questions, issues,
>and concerns.


      The BSA policy discussion are wholly within the realm of the
rec.scouting charter.  They also do not prevent using the group for
"legitimate" scouting discussions.


>Look, repeating the same thing over and over does not change anything
>or prove anything.

     Everyone who is still waiting for Stan to really understand
the above sentence, raise your virtual hand.


>   It is NOT homophobic, xenophobic, anti-Semitic,
>anti-Christian, or anti-whatever for parents to require that, depending
>on exactly what kind of group is involved, their children's youth group
>leaders adhere to certain standards of religion and/or morality.

     Stan, you said it yourself:  Repeating the same thing over
and over does not change anything or prove anything.


>Yes, Chris Evans and others; we all have our right to "free speech".
>But there is a little matter of "netiquette" too, and one of the rules
>of netiquette is that you don't post articles unrelated to the newsgroup,
>and you don't cross-post to unrelated newsgroups, which is what you've
>done with impunity in order to get your agenda across.

     Please explain why an article involving BSA policy is not
appropriate for rec.scouting.  Read the charter of rec.scouting
before answering.


>Keep rec.scouting the way it is, and let's all obey the rules of 
>netiquette (and to Evans and Kadie- this means you too, and don't try
>to rationalize your way out of it; you know you are in violation).

      Give it a rest, Stan.  You don't have a leg to stand on in
this argument.

					-Phil


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Lafornara         				1 Microsoft Way         
philipla@microsoft.com				Redmond, WA 98052-6399 
Note:  Microsoft doesn't even _know_ that these are my opinions. So there.
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2881 alt.politics.homosexuality:5743
From: awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Crossposting articles with rec.scouting (was Re: BofA and UW ...)
Date: 8 Sep 92 01:04:12 GMT
	<1992Sep6.161704.7350@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>
	<1992Sep7.015058.5163@morrow.stanford.edu>
	<1992Sep7.164023.25627@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>
Organization: NMSU Computer Science

In article <1992Sep7.164023.25627@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> mycroft@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Charles Hannum) writes:

- You completely misunderstood my statement.  rec.scouting is not for the
- discussion of BSA politics, and it is obviously not of interest to many
- of the readers.  If you want to discuss BSA politics, you should find
- (or create) a more appropriate forum.

But of course it *is* of interest to many of the rec.scouting readers.
Not every thread is going to be interesting to every reader.  BSA is
part of scouts.  BSA politics is part of BSA.  Not a leap of logic.
If you aren't interested in the thread, don't read it.  Or put it in
your kill file.

--
Andrew Werling   awerling@nmsu.edu   yip@rever.nmsu.edu
"Jesus is coming, look busy."
          --from a button I bought in an Albuquerque bookstore.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: crail@nevada.edu (DONNA CRAIL-RUGOTZKE)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 01:08:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.225955.10215@cs.yale.edu> rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:
>In article <AWERLING.92Sep8160523@dante.nmsu.edu> awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep8.000513.26065@cs.yale.edu> rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:
>>- In any case, you have simply repeated what Ms. Beatty asserted,
>>- not provided any substantiation for the claim. Your repetition
>>- of the claim does nothing to support it. Perhaps you would care
>>- actually substantiate it?
>>
>>You have a teenage homosexual who's told he is unfit to be a Boy
>>Scout, who's told he is sick, who's told he's going to hell...
>>
>>He's kind of screwed across the board, isn't he?
>Yeah, so what's your point? Emotional appeals will do nothing
>to substantiate your claim that such a thing is immoral.
>
>Suppose he really IS going to hell. Is it immoral to tell him
>the truth?

Unless you are God or Satan, how would you know who is going
to heaven or hell?    
>
>Are you going to present an argument, or just keep repeating
>yourself?
>
>
>-Ekr
>

Donna
crail@nevada.edu





Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2937 alt.discrimination:4230 chi.general:1050 alt.atheism:16793 alt.politics.homosexuality:5816
From: omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu (The God-Bitch Emperor of Snuggle Bunnies)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 8 Sep 92 23:46:05 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UB

In <1992Sep8.225955.10215@cs.yale.edu> rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:

>Suppose he really IS going to hell. Is it immoral to tell him
>the truth?

    He can say all he wants to...  It's what he *does* and what
fundies are *doing* that I object to.  You can talk to you're blue in
the face, just to *make* me listen to it.

>Are you going to present an argument, or just keep repeating
>yourself?

I dunno depend on you really.

Have A Day
-Eftsne (Olu)
*Vox Domini*

******** _______________________________ All expressed opinions are mine unless
 * bi * |   omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu   | otherwise noted..  (UB wouldn't have
  ****  | V117MG7B@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu |  any opinions (besides popular ones)
   **    -------------------------------    anyway..)
Smurf these codes:
         *S8/3 b g+(+) l+(-) y/ z(-) n+ o+(+) x(+) a+ u(+) v(+) j+(+)*
                     *B0 f w cd g++! k(+) s- h- r p*
Good quote follows:
   "I believe that homophobia is equivalent to racism.  Prejudicial violence
     towards gays and lesbians is as irrational as hostility towards African
     Americans.  A bigot is a bigot."     		-L.S. Welch 
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 04:58:13 GMT

philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara) writes:
:     Here's a question for you:  Why is it that homophobia is now
: the only acceptable form of discrimination in the U.S.?
 
For the simple reason that it is considered evil by the majority of
the population.  However, there are many such forms of discrimination
that are considered acceptable in the US.

For example, discrimination against child abusers, rapists, murderers..
the list is endless.  What is unique is that this is the only form of
"evil" in the US that is considered acceptable by enough American to
be a powerful enough political block to be able to force itself on the
majority.

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: whs70@dancer.uucp (22501-sohl)
Subject: Re: Scouting now that you are in College
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 17:38:41 GMT
Keywords: Alpha Phi Omega

In article <4_6yqld@rpi.edu> lalibr@jec305.its.rpi.edu (Ron Scott Laliberte) writes:
>  Alpha Phi Omega is a National (Co-Ed!) Service Fraternity.  It was founded
>by former Eagle Scouts back in 1925.  We have over 300 chapters active across
>the US, and a fair number in the Phillipines as well.  Ideas are being toyed
>with for chapters elsewhere, but I have not heard anything definite thus far.

>  Check out your school, there just might be a chapter there.
>  If you have any questions, you can email me, or if they are of broad 
>interest to scouts post them here...

What is the "national office" address for APO, just in case there isn't
a local chapter at the school my son goes to.

Standard Disclaimer- Any opinions, etc. are mine and NOT my employer's.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note - If email replying to me with an automatic addressing process
bounces, manually address the resend using one of the addresses below.
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Morristown, NJ             email via UUCP      bcr!dancer!whs70
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Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Crossposting articles with rec.scouting (was Re: BofA and UW ...)
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 21:02:47 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.164023.25627@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> mycroft@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Charles Hannum) writes:
>rec.scouting is not for the
>discussion of BSA politics, ...

This strikes me as an exceedingly odd statement.
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: mccalley@rtsg.mot.com (Phil McCalley)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 16:11:16 GMT

kutem@turtle1.Berkeley.EDU (Jon Kutemeier) writes:

>In article <mccalley.715556935@lead16>, mccalley@rtsg.mot.com (Phil McCalley) writes:
>|> On the issue of whether or not it is learned, it seems to me that it must
>|> be.  Surely if it was genetic, it would have deselected itself along time
>|> ago.  It would be some trick for them to reproduce.  Unfortunately for 
>|> them, AIDS is deselecting them anyway.  Sad, but true.

>What do you mean, "deselected" itself? Are you saying that gay couples
>are unable to reproduce? If it is, and at this point I will assume that
>is what you mean, then you are mistaken. Gay men and women can have children
>if they wish. There is nothing wrong with their reproductive organs. A gay
>couple can have a surrogate mother carry a baby for them, just as well as
>a lesbian couple may have one partner or another carry a baby to term. Also,
>don't forget the men and women who are "closeted", and maybe married, 
>can have children as well.

These are good points.  And salmon do somehow swim all the way up stream,
so I guess there are some amazing feats of reproduction in this ecosystem.
For salmon, you would think they would choose an easier way, but they do
not have the ability to think in the same capacity as we do.  I wonder 
what our excuse is.

>And I hate to tell you, but AIDS doesn't discriminate in this world. It will
>"deselect" you just as fast as it would someone who is gay. Sad, but true.

While it is true that AIDS can strike anyone, gay males have the highest
incidence of the disease, and that is very simply because of the way it
is transmitted.  The risk to a heterosexual male is not very great,
especially if he is monogomous.  Since you seem to know a great deal about
this subject, I am sure you would agree.  When you talk about probability,
gay men get the short end of the stick.  Ooops :)
-- 
....................................................... Phil McCalley
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo)
Subject: New question about gay scouts from other countries
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 18:59:27 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Distribution: rec.scouting

Well, I figured that since everyone is talking about how this doesn't
affect them in other countries, and I beleive it does, here is a 
question that would very well affect ya'll, both here in the states
and in other scouting organizations in the world:
   If the BSA continues with this policy of discrimination against gays, 
and if a scout from another country which does not discriminate against 
gays, and is gay (the scout), would he then be allowed to participate
in the international scouting exchange program in the US, even though 
he is gay?  
   I don't know if BSA Nationals has apolicy on this, but if there is, 
please let me and everyone else know.  I think it;s an interesting 
question regarding BSA policy as it affects world-wide scouting.

WWW
Dominick V. Zurlo
Eagle Scout,
former Lodge Chief Meechgalanne Lodge, Essex Council, NJ, USA
terminated from employment by the BSA for being gay.
openly and proudly gay.

Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2899 alt.discrimination:4181 chi.general:1022 alt.atheism:16715 alt.politics.homosexuality:5762