HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bills@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Bill Standerfer)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: What type of plane is a King Air Super 200?
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:34:03 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO

In article <1992Aug14.142005.18119@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, barrk@ucsu.Colorado.EDU
(BARR KEITH STABLER) writes:
>[...]
>When the new Denver Airport is totally complete it will have 4 16,000 ft
>runways, and 6 or 8 12,000 footers.  I love high density altitude. :^)

Well, not exactly.  DVX is currently planned to open with 5 12K' runways.  Last
plans I saw had the *one* 16K' runway opening at 12K, with a 4K extension the
summer following airport opening.  There are plans for only one 16K runway at
this time.  Whether the runway opens at 12K or 16K has been discussed, with the
decision changed several times over the last couple of years.  The long range
plans for the airport are for all runways to be 12K, with the exception of the
16K north/south runway, so Denver can become the international air hub of the
west. :^)

Bill Standerfer, member of the ad hoc Denver TCA design committee
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: rjg@umnstat.stat.umn.edu (Robert J. Granvin)
Subject: Re: Where oh where is mpuckett?
Organization: School of Statistics, University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:38:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.202919.27857@eecs.nwu.edu>, phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug14.170920.6221@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, ginsberg@t.Stanford.EDU (Matthew L. Ginsberg) writes:
|> |> The criticism should be sharper -- but always reasoned -- if the
|> |> implication of the message is potentially dangerous
|> 
|> And much criticism on this list in the recent past has NOT been reasoned.
|> That is exactly my complaint.

It's very rare that offensive words, statements or actions are justified.
Emotions should not play into the matter.  I've watched so many people
argue the WRONG point just because they can't stand the thought that 
the anger they are feeling just might be caused by themselves and not
the person they're arguing with.

Though harsh words might be justified in some cases.  For example, the
A-26 Invader, Bar-Belle Bomber, cracked the left wing spar cap in flight
last weekend.  The spar cap has two AD's on it.  It MAY be found (I will
not claim fact until I know for certain) that only one AD was completed
but the other noted as done.  (You know how rumors go... :-)  a lot of
possibilities exist here and it not being one of our aircraft, I have
no idea what's what except for what physically happened...)

One of my crew was on board the flight video recording when the aircraft
turned into a sharp bank during an air display maneuver.  A VERY loud 
*BANG* and shudder was clearly evident (followed by the "what the hell
was _that?_" kind of comment.  The aircraft landed safely, but if any 
significant more G's were pulled, well, I hate to think about it.  As
it stands now, repair could run in the quarter million dollar range. 
Otherwise, there is one less A-26 flying.  Go find a pole to put it
on.

In that case, I would probably find myself using "unjustified" words 
and emotional reactions.

I've long since abandoned groups like sci.astro because of the assinine
attitude of the "experts" towards the curious.  If you make a simple
error (even if you correct yourself!), you'll find that 80% of the email
you get doesn't give you the answer you're looking for (or a correction
to your statement), but rather offensive name-calling and other childish
things.

I've never noticed rec.aviation get close to that on a regular basis.  I
missed the flame-fest here because I simply grew tired of how it was
developing.  I bailed out of even reading any of it well before it got
overly personal.

I do hope that's just an isolated incident, though I have a couple of 
email messages stashed away in my archives from rec.aviation that makes
me wonder where it's lurking, because it's there... Fortunately rare at
the moment...

-- 
Robert J. Granvin                                       School of Statistics
rjg@umnstat.stat.umn.edu                             University of Minnesota
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,eunet.aviation
From: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Subject: Re: a Piper Malibu crash again, now in Finland
Followup-To: rec.aviation
Reply-To: lhe@sics.se (Lars-Henrik Eriksson)
Organization: SICS, Kista (Stockholm), Sweden
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 12:34:02 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.131443.1@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi>, hakoskinen@tnclus (Harri Koskinen) writes:
>Yesterday on Wednesday August 19 a Swedish-registered Piper PA-46
>was crashed in the south-eastern part of Finland...
>
>The pilot took off from Lappeenranta (EFLP) in order to fly to Turku
>(EFTU, in south-western coast of Finland, about 200 NM from EFLP).
>The aircraft was flying with IFR plan (and probably also under IMC)
>in the altitude of about 10000 feet. The radio contact was lost 21 
>minutes after the take-off. The impact was 10 minutes later.

According to a Swedish newspaper today, the crash site was only 30 km
away from the departure airport. That is really strange considering
the speed of the aircraft and the fact that it was still flying at
least 21 minutes after departure, when the last radio transmission was
heard.
-- 
Lars-Henrik Eriksson                            Internet: lhe@sics.se
Swedish Institute of Computer Science           Phone (intn'l): +46 8 752 15 09
Box 1263                                        Telefon (nat'l): 08 - 752 15 09
S-164 28  KISTA, SWEDEN                         Fax: +46 8 751 72 30
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: rls@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Ray Swartz (Oh, that guy again))
Subject: Re: Why not a bi-winged sailplane??
Reply-To: rls@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu
Organization: Vis-Orb Tragnetics Recorporation
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 21:15:27 GMT

>bullock@watson.bms.com (JOAN BULLOCK) writes:
>>>I have been wondering if a bi-winged design would be feasable for a
>>>sailplane.   
>>..

	Don't think it hasn't been considered before.  Remember that the
Wright's aircraft, both powered and gliders, were biplanes.  The design later
lost out due to evolution.

	Personally, I liked the idea of the "X-wing" in STAR WARS.  You'll have
a lever in the cockpit that would split the wing and hinge it open, for those
low speed termalling turns.  Then, to exit the thermal, you fold 'em back
together and zip out on course.  It would be an alternative to flaps.
	Of course, you'de need to put in some hinging that could still take the
stresses without folding all the way up.
From: wisch@Apple.COM (Ed Wischmeyer)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Why not a bi-winged sailplane??
Summary: Span loading is important
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:15:39 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA



In addition to all of the other factors already pointed out regarding
a bi-wing sailplane (interference drag at wing/fuselage junctions,
interference between wings), there is also the phenomenon that some
(sorry, I don't remember which) of the important performance numbers
are affected primarily by the span loading, ie, gross weight divided
by wingspan. The shorter wingspan of the biplane would sure work against
you there in terms of soaring performance.

Ed "yes, it's still for sale" Wischmeyer
RV-4 ARSA Fighter N629EW
From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Small crash / Chrokee Question
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:36:13 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <66392@hydra.gatech.EDU>, gt9989a@prism.gatech.EDU (John Martin Chapman) writes:
> Today in Gwinett County, Georgia, there was a small plane crash involving a
> Cherokee 160.  

While I live in Stone Mountain, GA, just miles away from the Briscoe field
airport were the accident occurred, this was the first report I've heard of
the type of aircraft. The news media yesterday identified the plane merely as
a "Piper Cherokee"

> 1 person was killed and 4 were injured.  My question(s) is/are
> this.  I got my first 40 or so hours in a Cherokee 180 I think.  I know the
> more common Cherokee is the 140.  
> The one I trained in had 4 seats, and the 140 has four seats.  

That's right. Although I believe the 180 has a slightly larger cabin, and
a bit greater useful load.

> So  if I am remembering correctly, and a 160 is just a
> variant of the 140 (having 4 seats) 

Yup. I don't even think the useful load is any greater in the 160. (A
typical 140 has about 750-800 lbs useful load. With 36-50 gallons of
fuel, you aren't likely to be taking 3 full-sized people up)

> isn't the fact that 5 people were in the
> plane probable cause for the crash? 

You bet. Particularly when they crashed on take-off.

You'd think most pilots could figure out that if a plane has only 4 seats,
you can't get 5 people into it.

> Or is a 160 the Cherokee 6?

No, the Cherokee 6 is a much bigger plane, with a 285 or 300 HP engine.
As the name implies, it would have no problem hauling 6 people.

This kind of rabid stupidity really burns me up. The pilot (if he/she) isn't
dead, ought to have their license revoked for life / eternity, whichever
is longer....

-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
Principal Software Engineer        ! Packet Radio: AA4LR @ W4QO
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc. ! UUCP: uunet!hayes!bcoleman
POB 105203 Atlanta, GA 30348 USA   ! Internet: bcoleman%hayes@uunet.uu.net
Disclaimer: "My employer doesn't pay me to have opinions."
Quote: "The same light shines on vineyards that makes deserts." -Steve Hackett.
From: yurkon@rudolf.nscl.msu.edu (John Yurkon)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Second Solo - and a question
Date: 13 Aug 92 14:46:33 GMT
Reply-To: yurkon@rudolf.nscl.msu.edu (John Yurkon)
Organization: National Superconducting Cyclotron Laboratory

In article <5527@transfer.stratus.com>, lee@bluefuzz.sw.stratus.com (Lee
Cooprider) writes:
>...
> I have been thinking about this thread a bit.  I earlier responded
> that, for a
> qualified pilot (not necessarily a student) that flying a 360 at
> several
> hundred feet and two times stall speed should be an entirely safe
> operation.
> ...

On my instrument flight test at Jackson, MI I was cleared for an ILS
approach to runway xx (I forget the runway numbers) and just before
reaching DH Tower told me to circle to land on the opposite runway.  I
proceded to circle to land at 200 AGL which upset the examiner,
fortunately he was more upset with the tower contoller for issuing that
clearance.  I then climbed to the circle to land MDA.  Everything else
went smoothly and I passed.

The examiner felt that even climbing to circle to land was not safe and
that we should have executed a missed approach procedure to be assured
of obstacle clearance in the climb.

	John
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: mark@hpcvxmsr.cv.hp.com (Mark Rowe)
Subject: Re: exit
Keywords: insurance risk medical
Reply-To: mark@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com
Organization: UDT-CV (ITO)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:01:59 GMT

In prior article jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu writes:
> In light of recent postings about life insurance for pilots, I thought I'd
> share my recent findings with the net.
...

Are there any life insurance companies that give pilots a discount?  Does
anybody have any stats on the effect of being a pilot on life expectancy?
My gut feel is that keeping an aviation medical current does more to up
your life expectancy than any flight risk does to lessen it, but I don't
have any hard data.

Mark Rowe             email: mark@hpcvlx.cv.hp.com
Hewlett Packard       voice: (503) 750-3246
Corvallis, OR         FAX:   (503) 750-3788
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: robie@umbc4.umbc.edu (Mr. William Robie; POSI (GRAD))
Subject: Re: Amy Johnson?
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 01:52:03 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.113958.16781@pbs.org> pstinson@pbs.org writes:
>In article <11AUG199208243836@watson.bms.com>, bullock@watson.bms.com (JOAN BULLOCK) writes:
>>  
>> Funny you should ask.  I recently received a flyer advertizing a book about 
>> female American flyers.  Amy Johnson was not specifically mentioned but many 
>> other pioneers and contemporaries were.
>> 
>> Specifics:
>> 
>>     _Ladybirds: The Untold Story of Women Pilots in America_
>>     by Henry M. Holden, with Capt. Lori Griffith
>>     Black Hawk Publishing Company
>>     P.O. Box 24, Mt. Freedom, N. J. 07970
>>     $19.95 + $3.00 p&h
>>     ISBN 10879630-11-7
>> 

>
>I believe Marjorie Stinson gave flying lessons to many of the first Canadian
>pilots who saw World War I action with the Royal Flying Corps.  I do not know
>if this is mentioned in the book.

Marjorie & Katherine Stinson did, indeed, give flying lessons to many of the 
first Canadian pilots of WWI at the Stinson Aviation School in Texas. By way 
of proof to the Canadian government that they were qualified pilots, the 
students usually earned licenses from the Aero Club of America (the US arm of
the FAI). If the above book doesn't mention it, one that is scheduled to come 
out in December does (mine - thanks for the convenient opportunity to mention 
it!).   ;-)   It also lists the names and license numbers of ALL the pilots
licensed to fly by the Aero Club of America from 1906 through 1919 (including 
aeroplane, aero-hydro, dirigible, free balloon and expert).  Among these will 
be the Canadians, although they are not identified by nationality.

Now to see who is reading and paying attention -

A couple of months back I mentioned that it appeared a well-known aviator
would be writing the foreword for my book. It is now confirmed that
General "Chuck" Yeager will be doing me the honor (and an honor it is, indeed!)
of writing my foreword.

I'll let you know what the title will be as soon as we decide.

Bill
From: rlee@watneys.med.utah.edu (Rich Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: So what' so great about Nut Tree?
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:10:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: watneys.RLEE.92Aug12111048
Organization: Department of Human Genetics, University of Utah

What's so great about the Nut Tree?

The best thing is the little choo-choo that runs to the restaurant ;->

-Rich
--
Triple Zip-Loc it, then duct tape it.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: philf@xymox.palo-alto.ca.us (Phil Fernandez)
Subject: Regional differences in IFR route assignment (was: I give up...)
Organization: Jade and Jett Incorporated
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 02:38:31 GMT

In article <23479@alice.att.com> ark@alice.UUCP writes:
> Question:  Why do they insist that you specify the "route" portion of
> your IFR flightplan in the NE?  It's not like you're EVER going to use it!

I have a vaguely related question:  I've done a good bit of IFR flying
in the West (Bay Area, LA, San Diego and in-between), and I've come to
learn a huge amount of consistency in assigned routings, even in very
busy complex airspace.  Sure, sometimes there are surprises, but
they're relatively infrequent, and I most always get the routing I
expected (and the route I filed, since why not file what I expect to
get?)

Oh, the question:  is this different in the Northeast?  I've seen
several references that suggest extreme unpredictability in IFR
routings in the NE corridors.  Does anyone have thorough experience in
both regions to discuss the similarities/differences in procedure?
How about other regions?

pmf
pp-asmel-ia
mooney n5632j

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: josh@sol.asl.hitachi.com (Joshua Koslov)
Subject: Transition Glider to Power
Reply-To: josh@sol.asl.hitachi.com
Organization: Hitachi America Ltd
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:41:07 GMT

Does anyone on the net have experience transitioning from glider to power?  I am a Private glider pilot with probably a couple hundred PIC flights;  I am condidering some power flying.  What have people found in terms of how their glider experience has helped in learning or accelerating airplane training?

Josh Koslov (member Soaring Society of Princeton University)

"josh@sol.asl.hitachi.com"
From: paulf@ci.deere.com (Paul A. Fisher)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Oshkosh VFR arrival closures.
Keywords: Oshkosh
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:56:50 GMT

tel@cbnews.cb.att.com (thomas.e.lester) writes:
>	Just want to add that if you are a homebuilt or show plane,
>	they will accept  you long after spamcans are being turned down

>	:-)    :-)    :-)

>	At least I hope thats true !

You better believe it!  I've gone into Oshkosh for the last two years
using that fact to my advantage!  I have gone on Friday morning, after
the field is closed to everyone except showplanes, and then just
went on in.  That business with 40 planes on final scares me to 
death!


--
Paul A. Fisher                       paulf@ci.deere.com
Engineering & Manufacturing Systems  ...uunet!deere!paulf
John Deere Road                      (309) 765-4547
Moline, Illinois 61265
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: wb8foz@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (David Lesher)
Subject: Re: Jets and short fields
Reply-To: wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (David Lesher)
Organization: NRK Clinic for habitual NetNews abusers - Beltway Annex
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 23:54:39 GMT

Anyone want to look up Tegucigalpa, Hon?
I never figured out how Eastern got their 727-200's in & out of
there; American has a hard time getting -100's there.

I'll let someone with the approach plate tell folks about it.

--
A host is a host from coast to coast..wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
From: rls@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Ray Swartz (Oh, that guy again))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Transition Glider to Power
Date: 19 Aug 92 22:20:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bt94qI.GA6
Reply-To: rls@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu
Organization: Vis-Orb Tragnetics Recorporation

In article <1992Aug19.154107.1217@sol.asl.hitachi.com>,
josh@sol.asl.hitachi.com (Joshua Koslov) writes:

>Does anyone on the net have
>experience transitioning from glider to power?  I am a Private glider pilot
>with probably a couple hundred PIC flights;  I am condidering some power
>flying.  What have people found in terms of how their glider experience has
>helped in learning or accelerating airplane training? > >Josh Koslov (member
>Soaring Society of Princeton University) > >"josh@sol.asl.hitachi.com" > >


	Well, I did it about 10 months ago.  I was working on my CFIG and my
PP-ASEL at the same time.  The main things I had to learn was:

	* Flaps instead of spoilers
	* Power settings, engine temp, oil pressure, and all of the other things
	  associated with that fan up front.
	* get better with ATC communication and such
	* flaring at the right time, as the PP sits higher than the glider
	* to stop from climbing (glider pilots climb whenever they can, and
	  it's a hard habit to break)

while the easy things were:

	* Ground reference procedures
	* Pattern and landing approach (glider pilots learn to get it right
	  the first time)
	* General airwork (be careful of the added torque)
	* What to do during power failures (hey!  Now I feel right at home.)

	As it is, I still fly gliders most of the time.  I use the PP more for
transportation than anything else right now, though I'd like to learn
aerobatics after I'm done with my thesis.

Ray Swartz
From: dunn@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Steve Dunn)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:54:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Re:  Moffett Air Show
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

/ hpcc01:rec.aviation / brent@telebit.com (Brent Chapman) /  8:43 am  Aug  4, 1992 /
rivers@mdnitemdnite.enet.dec.com (Kim Rivers) writes:
>In article <l7r2cqINNgtj@male.EBay.Sun.COM>, nancyr@aviatrix.EBay.Sun.COM (Nancy Ramirez) writes:
>>     Moffett Field is having its last airshow 
>>     ever on the weekend of Oct. 17-18 this year.
>Ever??   :(   Is the base closing down, or what?

>>>Yes.


>>>-Brent
----------
Partially.   The Navy is shutting down.   The airfield will be operated
by NASA.   There are discussions about Santa Clara County taking it on
as a possible alternative to Reid-Hillview & Palo Alto.   Lots of community
opposition here, though.

Steve
From: val@swamps.UUCP (Val Christian)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: War story and story request
Summary: engine failure
Date: 17 Aug 92 04:23:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: swamps.647
Reply-To: val@swamps.UUCP (Val Christian)
Organization: Swamp Systems

In article <1992Aug9.235116.1334@peck.com> geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck) writes:
>...
>Well, in some 3200 or so hours of flying, I've had exactly _one_ such bona
>fide engine failure.  It was a partial failure, where the engine in a Warrior
>						Geoff

In 2300 or so hours, I have experience two engine failures in single engine
aircraft.  The first was a camshaft failure at 350 AGL on a windy October
day.  I had a fresh PP ticket, just completed an aerobatic course, and had
less than 150 hours to my name.  Did the "impossible turn" and landed 
with a crowd of witnesses.  With a 2200 x 20 foot runway, I was proud of
landing on the asphalt...  The second happened ten years later, when I
went for a BFR after about a year away from serious flying.  The engine
started sounding not-quite-right, and I mentioned it to the seasoned
CFI doing my checkout.  He didn't notice a thing...until 90 seconds later.
Using every opportunity for lift, and last minute extension of flaps to 
clear the approach lights, I landed it at a nearby airport where glider
ops, ag helicopter, and everything else were happening.  The old salt of
an instructor never touched the controls (although he did ask what I 
had in mind when the approach lights were above us--I popped flaps, offset
to the runway, and landed).  He just sat there looking at all the traffic 
we were cutting off, and ran the radio.

In the first case, the plane was a new Cessna 172, with about 14 hours on
the engine.  The camshaft broke because of a flawed casting, with lots of
sand in it.  The second case was a Penn Yan rebuild, with less than 19
hours in it, in a Warrior.  It swallowed a couple of valves, beat a cylinder
head off, bent a crank, and then proceeded to take out two more cylinders.
It was not developing any power at landing, and the prop stopped windmilling
as the wheels touched the pavement. 

As a result of these experiences, I have developed a dislike of engines with
less than a couple of hundred hours on them.

I _have_ had some rather humorous "engine problems".  For example, this past
year our club had a bottom overhaul at Penn Yan on our C172.  Shortly 
thereafter I noticed a "terrible rapping" noise from the engine shortly
after takeoff.  Not taking any chances, I declared an emergency and 
landed.  Turns out the exhaust gasket(s) had failed, and the stack was
rapping on the cowling.   I thought the engine was going to self destruct
and shower parts over the countryside.

Val Christian
(h) ...uunet!sisd!kodak!swamps!val
(w) val@kodak.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,eunet.aviation