From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics,ba.politics
Subject: Re: Stereotyping
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:03:46 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <11727@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

>I can see the conversation: "I know a group of people march in 
>parades where they wear the most outrageous outfits, things that 
>offend the vast majority of Americans.  They spend much of their 
>time complaining about the unfairness of a society that doesn't 
>approve of these outrageous displays that they put on in public.

Those outrageous displays are in a gay pride parade.  Not in the Macy's
Thanksgiving day parade, not in the St. Patrick's Day parade, but the 
gay pride parade, where we dress up in our party clothes and go celebrate.


>"They complain about our society stereotyping them as sadomasochists, 
>effeminate cross-dressers, and child molesters, in spite of the 
>gay parades in which groups like Dykes on Bikes participate, men 
>dress up in drag, men dress up in S&M attire, and groups such as 
>the North American Man-Boy Love Association are welcome.

two points:

1. NAMBLA has not ever been given anything but a cold reception in these
parades.
2. I dress up in leather to go to the gay pride parade.  I do not go in
drag, I am not effeminate, I am not a child molester, I do not dress like
a cowboy, or a construction worker, or a heterosexual.  The reason that
these are stereotypes is that you attributing characteristics of a few
homosexuals to all homosexuals.


>"They complain about our society stereotyping them as sex obssessed,
>but many of their discussions in a public forum revolve around 
>pornographic movie 'stars' and casual sex with strangers.

Not true.  Not at all in fact.  If I had to say what the most common thing
to happen on soc.motss, I would say that it would have to be endless
strings of puns.  We also talk about opera, television, movies, and
so on.  You only read the ones which interest you, which are the ones
concerning sex.


>"They insist that they don't support molestation, and yet a large
>fraction of the group will engage in semantic games to show that 
>adults having sex with kids as young as eight isn't 'molestation' 
>but 'love.'

You are making this up.


>"They whine about AIDS, and yet, continue to justify the 
>promiscuous sexuality that caused AIDS to spread so rapidly through 
>their population, claiming that condoms will solve all problems.

Yes, I will justify what people were doing in the 70s.  This is because
I am sympathetic.  You are not sympathetic, which is why you cannot see
that people felt they knew the risks.


>"In spite of massive public education efforts aimed at the general
>population, and this group, unsafe sex practices remain a major
>problem, even though the consequences are a painful and long
>drawn-out death.

Unsafe sex is much more common amongst heterosexuals than it is amongst
homosexuals.  Why do you only focus on homosexuals.


>"Why do I perceive this group as being pretty screwed up?"

Because you are homophobic, and only see what you want to see.


>The psychiatrist puffs on his pipe, and leans over: "Tell me, 
>Clayton, how long have you let what a group insists on portraying 
>themselves as influence your perception of them?"
>
>Soc.motss, and the gay parades, are the equivalent of a parade
>in which black men are all eating watermelon, killing, raping,
>and robbing people, or pretending to be Stephen Fetchit.

Only through they eyes of a hateful person.


>Homosexuals hate stereotyping.  So why is so much energy put into
>reinforcing those stereotypes?  Is it because those stereotypes
>reflect reality for some significant fraction of homosexuals?


By your logic, african americans should not eat watermelon, because 
this supports stereotypes.  Jews should not be bankers because it supports
a stereotype.  

You are not allowing anyone any lattitude to be what they want.  Gay
culture has many icons and many traditions which are different from
mainstream heterosexual culture.  A gay man dressing up in leather pants
and going to the gay pride parade is no different from a irishman wearing
green on St Patricks Day.  The only difference is that you feel that
wearing leather is "wrong" while wearing green is acceptable.


FWA
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