HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mvishnu@morse.uwaterloo.ca (m vishnu)
Subject: C.N.Annadurai part 1
Originator: mvishnu@morse.uwaterloo.ca
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:44:39 GMT



On C.N.Annadurai  from the PhD thesis of Charles Ryerson, "Regionalism and
Religion, The Tamil Renaissance and Popular Hinduism".


Annadurai's maiden speech to the Rajya Sabha in 1962:

"I belong to Dravidian stock.  I am proud to call myself Dravidian.
That does not mean I am against a Bengali or Maharashtrian or a 
Gujarati... The Dravidians have got something different to 
offer the world at large... I am pleading for separation of 
Dravidanad not because of any antagonism but because if it is
separated, it become a small nation, compact, homogeneous
and united wherein sections of people in the whole area can 
have a community of sentiment.  I am pleading for a national
cause, not for parochialism..."

Annadurai's definition of Brahmanism:

"...representing the particular system and practice of life preached
by the Bramins...based on irrational beliefs and superstitions.  It is
not pecular to Bramins as these practices have permeated over centuries
to all castes.  Some feature of Brahmanism can be said to be a division 
of society into castes and elaborate ritual..."

Nehru attacked DMK as follows:

"I believe one of the major demands of communal parties here is to 
kick out Bramins... It is comic to any understanding person--that
anyone should say these foolish things.  It is tragic because many 
people are led away by these foolish cries... to paths of violence"

P. Balasubramaniam of DMK responded as follows:

"Our creed is that we accept no man as inferior because of accident
of birth.  All men are treated alike which cannot be considered...
as a communal creed.  Further, we are not here to kick out the 
Bramins or anyone from this land; but we are of the view that
those who do not treat others as equals...have no place 
in Dravidanad..From the cradle to the crematoriam the orthodox
Bramin consider himself a separate person...He wants people to
consider him as a representative of God on earth.  This idea
is really barbaric and repungent to any civilized person and I 
consider our Prime Minister as a very highly civilized person
who has discarded...the barbaric ideology of separateness of
Brahmanism"

(to be continued...)

Meenan Vishnu
From: raghu@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Raghu B)
Subject: Re: Let us build Periyar Temple
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Distribution: world 
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 14:38:09 GMT

 HELL WITH PERIYAAR, HE WAS NO. 1 FOOL IN THE WHOLE COUNTRY ,
From: nraju@usc.edu (Narayanan Raju)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: temple priesthood
Date: 17 Aug 1992 19:11:35 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: nunki.usc.edu

Mr. Sundar writes,
> nraju@usc.edu (Narayanan Raju) writes:
>>Christians have 100% reservation for the the post of Christian priests.
>>               so do the Muslims
>>               so do the Brahmins
>        First two are understandable. By the same arguement shouldn't it be
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>        Hindus in Hindu temples?.
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>               so do the the various non-Brahminical communities.

Every religion has a god, a philosophy and a set of rituals.
In Hinduism, there are various gods, various philosophies, and various rituals.
In essence Hinduism is a collection of all religions native to India,
the commonality being the tolerance of all concerned communities.
Thus, Hindus aren't a single community. Even amongst Brahmins
there are many different philosophies and rituals and accordingly, each
individual group is a community. So, the priesthood goes to that community,
although others are allowed to worship.



I'm not saying that all these communities should not be merged together.
Such  a merger should come only after acceptance by all groups. Again,
if some individual group wants to maintain its identity and remain distinct,
they should be allowed to as far as they do not hurt others.
Discussions, deliberations and merger after the approval of all
communities concerned, is the way of democracy, which is yet to
happen in Hinduism. In other words merger should not be forced by some mere
legislation.



Raju
raju@spock.usc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: bs@wucs1.wustl.edu (Bala SWAMINATHAN)
Subject: Re: Varna & Brahmins
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis Mo.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 19:44:06 GMT

In article <9208162243.AA03025@ha06.eng.ua.edu> bkannan@ha06.eng.ua.edu (Balaji Kannan) writes:
>
>
>  When you feel you have to castigate Brahmins :
>   Bhagavad Gita was all great. Krishna meant "Caste by deeds and 
>   not birth" in the Gitopadesh. Brahmins interpolated the texts
>   and continued to misinterpret them.
>
>  When you feel you have to defend Periyar who trashed religion
>  [we have to agree with him no matter what he says for after
>   all he was the biggest Brahmin hater, right?]:
>
>   Sorry! I beg to disagree. What Periyar says about Krishna has
>   to be right. Krishna is the bigger culprit. He institutionalized
>   casteism [by birth] and Brahmins followed suit.
>  -----------------------------------------
>  Way to go!
>  What else  can one expect from a Periyar-cultist who thinks with
>  different halves of his brain at different times on the same issue.
>
>  anbudan,
>  Balaji Kannan
> 

OK, whatever the other guy says, what is it that you agree?

1. Brahmins interpolated the texts, thus they are the Culprits.
2. Krishna institutionalized casteism [by birth], thus he is the Culprit.

You could have been clear.

Satire writing is easy only as long as the aim is to assasinate the
character [*] of somebody. But it takes a lot more to write one while
expressing your views clearly. Cho, among others IMO, succeeds in this
to a certain extent. These people not only write satires, but also
tell precisely what is right and what is wrong (according to them).

natpudan
S_Bala

[*] Insinuated by the term Periyar-Cultist
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi)
Subject: Re: A threat from....
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:04:19 GMT

In <1992Aug20.201309.8548@engage.pko.dec.com> thiyagarajan@mims.enet.dec.com (RT) writes:

>There is a tamil proverb "Pambukku palai varthalum adu kadikkum" which means
>even if you give milk to a posonous snake it will bite. LTTE are like snakes
>they forget all the help they got from Tamil Nadu/India and try to attack the
>same person who helped us.

>You have to remember that as I mentioned in previous posting in
>soc.culture.sri-lanka I was a enthusiastic supporter of LTTE one time.

>Let us hope that the innocent sir-lankan tamilians learn about this.
                      ^^^^^^^^                   ^^^^^^^^^^

  Mr Thyagarajan, You may see tamizhs as Srilankan Tamizhs and
Indian Tamizhs, but for us they don't make a difference.
 We do not make a difference at all. 

What do you mean by innocent?

 1. People who managed to escape or

 2. People like you who sit from a distance and denigrate
the tamizh cause.

All the people fighting for
freedom as innocent as you and me are. They are fighting an oppression.
Look at the number of young men and women fighting with a clear aim
of protecting their mother.  

  You might have been an enthusiastic
supporter when India supported the tamizh's. Now you have changed.
How suddenly. It is better to know why people are fighting and have
"koLkai". Just like the cheap politicians changing sides you 
also change your principles.

       Another thing is you say LTTE tried to attack INdia.
 India attacked the tamizh's and killed so many of us.
  LTTE so far is only alleged to have killed Rajiv. But they
have not even proved it.


  Finally you should read the kuRaL

    ezhaithathu ekavaamaich chaavaarai yaarE
     pizhaithathu oRukiR pavar.

   Who would reproach with failure those who seal their
oath with their death?

  Nobody has arukathai to talk foul about the freedom fighter's.

 
>RT

Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: akn8257@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: kaaval theivam
Reply-To: akn8257@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:42:41 GMT

In article <BstsIB.Ht7@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, mvishnu@morse.uwaterloo.ca (m vishnu) writes:
>In article <1992Aug11.001801.15117@syd.dit.CSIRO.AU> kumar@syd.dit.CSIRO.AU (V.R.Kumar) writes:
>
>[stuff deleted ...]
>
>>Ulagaththil ulla makkalil eththanai paer
>>Thamizhagaththin nilamaiyai pattri paesukiraarkal ? 
>
>[stuff deleted...]
>
>>Thamizh endra mozhi irukkirathendrae pala paerukku ivvulagaththil
>>theriyaathae !!! Aanaal ippoethu nilamai appadi illaiyae !!!
>
>I have to agree with you fully with your above view.   The Tamil (language/
>region/people/etc) became known popularly to the outside world due
>to the Tamil's struggle for self-determination in Sri-lanka and NOT by the
>literary quality of the Tamil movies produced in TN.

Like everyone knows now where Bosnia and Sarajevo are?

- Arunkumar.

>To this day, not a single Tamil movie have won any international award, for
>it to be known outside.  Even Sinhalese movies, produced in Sri-lanka
>have done better!!
>>
>>V R Kumar
>>
>
>Meenan Vishnu
From: 5700aa@gmuvax2.gmu.edu ( )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: I HATE TAMILS
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:38:06 GMT
Organization: GMU


I love Tamils, Tamil is great, but Tamils hate Tamils, and love
English and take TOEFL and come to U.S. and become Americans and ...

Why people hate Tamils ?
Where did you get that idea from ?
"do not like" is not the same as "hate"
I don't hate Tamils.
I like Tamils. 
But I hate terrorists and people supporting terrorists indiscrimately.
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian
From: rachada@icaen.uiowa.edu (Ramakrishna Chada)
Subject: Re: I HATE TAMILS (2)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:53:07 GMT
Organization: Iowa Computer Aided Engineering Network, University of Iowa

In article <1992Aug18.145147.9547@uoft02.utoledo.edu> vprasad@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>In article <Bt5DJt.9ws@ireq.hydro.qc.ca>, srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca
>(Srinivasan K.) writes:
>
>> Could it be possible that, just like Telugu which gets accepted very well
>> in Tamil Nadu, because it is the language of a neighbour;
>> Hindi, which is a neighbouring language to Telugu Nadu, gets accepted there?
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~??????????
>
>	Hindi a neighbouring language to Andhra Pradesh????
>
>	The five neighbouring states of AP are (in anti-clockwise direction)
>        Orissa, almost insignificant amount of border with Madhya Pradesh,
>	Maharashtra, Karnataka and Tamilnadu. The respective languages spoken
>	in those states are Oriya, Hindi, Marathi, Kannada and Tamil. If you
>	think that Telugus' peaceful acceptance of Hindi has to do everything
>	with our *small* border sharing with MP, you are grossly mistaken.
>
>	experience of getting _strange and hostile_ looks when I spoke with
>	my Northie friend in Hindi from local populace, in supposedly cosmo-
>	politan city like Madras, not to speak of interior TN!! Yes, I've
>	stayed in Madras for 4 years. I know one experience does not prove
>	anything, but Sudarshan has a point with this issue]
>
>	Please give us the credit when it is due; unlike Tamils who opposed 
>	Hindi tooth and nail, we Telugus correctly recognised that Hindi is 
>	our link to the rest of India and accepted it. Opinions may differ
>	whether this is such a good thing (I suspect most Tamils think it 
>	isn't); but in my opinion, in Tamilnadu, this issue is blown *way*
>	out of proportions. In their reluctance to accept Hindi in any form, 
>	Tamils are missing out on a very rich mixture of literature, film
>	songs from Hindi etc; it is certainly a big loss. 
>
>	Siva Prasad.				(vprasad@uoft02.utoledo.edu)


echo

While imposition of Hindi is unnecessary, obstinately refusing to open up
to a rich language, like most tamilians I know do, will definitely be a loss
for them.

As for the acceptance of Telugu in Madras, it could have something to do
with "about" 15-20 lakh people of Madras having telugu origins.(I read this in
an article in Hindu more than 2 yrs back). I am not sure whether telugu is
accepted/understood in any other part of interior Tamilnadu.

Ramakrishna  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian
From: rachada@icaen.uiowa.edu (Ramakrishna Chada)
Subject: Re: I HATE TAMILS (2)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 05:56:57 GMT
Organization: Iowa Computer Aided Engineering Network, University of Iowa

In article <18AUG199221213044@utkvx4.utk.edu> raj@utkvx4.utk.edu (S. KANAKA RAJ) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.205307.3598@news.uiowa.edu>,
>rachada@icaen.uiowa.edu (Ramakrishna Chada) writes...
>
>>While imposition of Hindi is unnecessary, obstinately refusing to open up
>>to a rich language, like most tamilians I know do, will definitely be a loss
>>for them.
>
>Thamizh also is a rich language with a lot of literature, puranas, and other
>literary works. Why don't others learn it? Bees come from far off places to
>taste the honey in the flowers of a pond. Does anybody force those bees? Every
>one has HIS own brain; if you say that the ideas that come from YOUR brain are
>superior, then it is your problem and not the other person's problem.
>
>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>	Mine is great and yours too; let us stop right there.
>
>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have just expressed my opinion and I dont understand where I said that my
ideas are superior. Stop being delirious.                                     

Now let us stop right here.

Ramakrishna
From: nraju@usc.edu (Narayanan Raju)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: temple priesthood
Date: 18 Aug 1992 19:38:20 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: nunki.usc.edu

 Mr. arasu writes,
 >      In reply to RT's post:
        You are the ones who say reservation is unethical. So it is
        your responsibility to practice what you preach.
        Marriamman temple priests are not priests. They are caretakers.
        They usally are volunteers from local villages who have some
        other full time jobs. They do not sing any praises of God.
  >      They have no money or power. And they do not have fat tummies.
        -arasu



In my town, in  all Mariamman temples, as well as many in most of the
other temples, prieshood goes by inheritance. In some cases there are many 
heirs, and consequently, some priests may get a turn of say one month
in two or three years.

Obviusly, the Supreme Court, (one that follows a constitution, essentially
drafted under the head of a Shudra) has a better sense of justice than we do.


Raju
raju@spock.usc.edu

Xref: sparky soc.culture.tamil:1373 alt.culture.tamil:1225
From: crathina@ritchie.uwaterloo.ca (C Rathinavelu)
Subject: Please be accurate to avoid flame wars.
Originator: crathina@ritchie.uwaterloo.ca
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:38:44 GMT

In <1992Aug18.041123.23620@syd.dit.CSIRO.AU> kumar@syd.dit.CSIRO.AU (V.R.Kumar) writes:

>In article <l908k1INNcvu@aludra.usc.edu> rammohan@aludra.usc.edu (Karthikeyan Rammohan) writes:

>This is very untrue. Mr.Rammohan's brother might not have got guindy.
>But it is untrue that his friend with only 43% got Guindy. The 
>minimum cut-off percentage for bothe backward and Forward castes to
>enter guindy is 70%. There have been many incidents where many BC
>guys despite with more than 90% could not enter Guindy.
>Anbudan,
>V R Kumar
                 He may be good in sports or other extra curricular 
activities. I know that there is some reservation system for each 
district in TN to get admitted into professional colleges. So a student
with low marks (but with eligibility) will get admission if he holds 
higher rank in his native district. This is mainly to give equal/uniform
chances/treatment for all district people ( still there is discrimination
among districts). 

                 If the admission is based on merit system then I am pretty 
sure that only and only city people (Madras,Coimbatore,Trichy,Madurai etc. 
they have more/most/enough facilities in education industry) will enjoy this
partial system. One should also give some oppotunity to village and labour
class people to come up in their life. 


>-- 
> V.R.Kumar (Ramkumar Venkatachalam)                                 
> CSIRO, Division of Information Technology                         
> P.O.Box:1599, Macquarie Centre, North Ryde, NSW 2113, AUSTRALIA  


>	Whatever the hell it is , why should a person with low marks
>should get admission when the other person is far better than him.
>Any fool will be able to understand this logic. There is total injustice
>going on this world. 


             Do you think that getting high marks ( as bramins and other 
fc people usually do ) in the subjects/studies means you are 100% fit for
getting admitted to professional colleges? If it is then that is why our
(your) people are not able to shine well in western countries. Pure theoretical
knowledge doesn't help for long term. One should also have some practical 
knowledge. In my opinion one should not be given admission to any colleges
based purely upon ones marks/grades.  

Guindian,
C.RATHINAVELU

"Vadhiyarai Kakai Pidithu Soppu Pottal Yaru Vendumanalum Madhippen Perralam".



Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: nasokan@yoho.uwaterloo.ca (Asokan)
Subject: Re: Tamil words for maths and using them
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:33:39 GMT

In article <1992Aug10.200906.1@draco.rutgers.edu> viswanath@draco.rutgers.edu writes:
[...]
>any rate, I cannot get any flavour from the discussions between Meenan
>Vishnu, Asokan and Selvakumar as to which terms are more acceptable, which
>are less acceptable, etc;  When terms are being posted, it would be
>helpful to have this information.  Secondly, not knowing all the Tamil
>root words as well as some netters, I cannot follow the  correct spelling
>unless a consistent transliteration scheme is used.  For example, I have
>often got the feeling that some words where the retroflex L (in Adami terms)
>should be used, the letter 'l' in lower case was used.  It would be
>extremely helpful if consistency was adhered to, here.  In this case,
>personal transliteration schemes are definitely deleterious.  Finally, 
[...]

Even though suggestions of "offical recognition" and "conformance"
are anathema to many, the above are good reasons in favour of
them.  I don't use ADAMI.  I use itrans a lot.  Hence I tend
to stick to itrans' transliteration scheme.  Perhaps ADAMI is
more commonly used than itrans.  If there is a consensus
that we should all use ADAMI's scheme so as to minimize
difficulties in comprehension, I would be willing to learn
ADAMI's scheme and use it.  What is the general feeling on
this?

Similarly, I feel that parallel to active discussion, there
should be a systematic effort to collect all the new coinages,
and liaise with the people (e.g. TN's equivalent of arasakaruma
mozhith thiNaikkaLam) that can encourage a lot of people
to actually use these words.

[...]
>first I'm kind of lost with several give and takes of suggested
>terminology and second, some of Asokan's posts don't seem to be making
>it to my node, no idea why.  You will have the satisfaction of knowing that

Hmm...I checked my previous postings.  None of them have
the "newsgroups" header line, which means they should
default to "world" distribution.


Regards,

- Asokan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: thiyagarajan@mims.enet.dec.com (RT)
Subject: Re: Hate-tamils
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:17:10 GMT


>Mr.Kathiravan Krishnamurthi quotes in his previous article
> 
>"  They had Periyaar who valiantly stood against 
>all the machinations of the varNa based
>brahmanism and veda based irrational stupidity 
>in the country."
> 

Boy when will you stop blaming everything on Brahmins?

Anyway few quotes from your "Periyar"

	" Tamizh oru KattuMirandi bashai"
	
	"I do not have any patriotism, I do not have any love for one language"

RT
From: bkannan@ha06.eng.ua.edu (Balaji Kannan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: A threat from...
Date: 21 Aug 1992 11:56:20 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu



>Satellites are an excellent platform for observing the earth.
>Resource management, managing the environment, predicting crop
>yields, predicting the weather, cyclone management etc. are
>conveniently done from satellites. Just for example, it is
>possible to predict the harvest yields to good accuracy well
>before the harvest (The US has been estimating Soviet yields
>for a long time using satellites.) If there is going to be a
>shortfall, then the government can arrange for grain imports
>at a time when the international prices are favorable, and
>well in advance of any price rise in India for example.
>Similarly, prediction of the monsoon will be improved with
>satellite observations.

   Hope we are not being taken for a ride [on a satellite, I'd add] :-)
   This is too good to be true! Now, I've got to make a trip to the
   library to find something vicious 'bout all these. Keep your
   fingers crossed till then.

>Needless to say, satellites can be used for observing troop
>movements, and gathering military information. I think this is
>a good use of technology, it enhances Indian security.

   I've got my own views on anything that enhances Indian security.
   I mean, the law and order people {dare"devils" rather}.

>More later,
>arun gupta
>ag3L@andrew.cmu.edu

   bk
From: prem@cs.montana.edu (M.P.Premkumar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: Hate-tamils
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:31:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: coe.1992Aug17.213111.26067
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, MSU, Bozeman Mt 59717

In article <l8nn5hINNi59@sal-sun118.usc.edu> rammohan@usc.edu (Karthikeyan Rammohan) writes:
>Mr.Kathiravan Krishnamurthi quotes in his previous article
>
>"  They had Periyaar who valiantly stood against 
>all the machinations of the varNa based
>brahmanism and veda based irrational stupidity 
>in the country."
>
>	This is positively not a reason.It is because of narrow-minded
>people like you that they hate tamils.The bramins are respected simply
>because they have come up in life through hard work.This is in hard
>contrast to what the people whom supposedly Periyar
>represents.Everybody knows how the "Thaztta Patta Pirivinar" , as they
>are called get into colleges.These people get into colleges with 35%
>and all they do is to screw up thw whole damn system.It is not the
>irrational stupidity of the vedas which make people hate tamils, but
>the stupidity of the dravidians to produce doctors and engineers who
>are not even qualified to enter colleges, that makes people hate
>tamils.
>	It is dravidians like karunanidhi whom people hate, not
>brahmins. It is dravidians like stalin who have been involved in riots
>and arson and not brahmins, which make people hate tamils.
>
>	So Mr.Kathirvan Krishnamuthi, think of the facts before you
				      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>blame evry damn problem of the tamils on the Brahmins.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It works either way !

>
>rammohan
>
>


Sincerely yours,
M.P.Premkumar