From: shagan@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Susan Hagan)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: Re: About those UnBornThi
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:09:02 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

stevens@eatdust (John Stevens) writes:

>In article <Jul.17.11.45.51.1992.25073@gandalf.rutgers.edu> shagan@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Susan Hagan) writes:
>>stevens@eatdust (John Stevens) writes:
>>
>>>In article <Jul.13.13.45.36.1992.15647@gandalf.rutgers.edu> shagan@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Susan Hagan) writes:
>>>>stevens@eatdust (John Stevens) writes:
>>>>>In article <Jul.10.14.41.22.1992.12484@gandalf.rutgers.edu> shagan@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Susan Hagan) writes:
>>

>>There is a difference between intercourse and conception.  This is the
>>point upon which we disagree.  I have seen no evidence to support your
>>assumption and until I do, I don't see any point in continuing.

>Which assumption are you talking about?  This paragraph does not seem
>related to what went before.

Your assumption that a consent to sex implies a consent to get pregnant.

I will explain the difference once more, and then I give up.

A consent to sex implies a consent to accept responsiblity for whatever may 
result.  This is true.  However accepting responsiblity for a pregnancy 
does not necessarily mean carrying it.  It can also mean terminating it.
 
>When is a man EVER given the chance to state whether or not he accepts
>responsibility?  A man is assumed to have consented to fatherhood AT THE
>TIME OF INTERCOURSE.

Legally yes, but I have already said that I think this is wrong.

>And how is changing your minde later (bailing out) different than a woman
>having an abortion?

Because if you change your mind, I am stuck with the financial burden of a
child.  If I change my mind, you are not stuck with the financial burden of 
a child.

>>>>No, I don't.  If you tell me before I get pregnant or when you discover
>>>>that I'm pregnant that you don't want it, then its my problem if I want
>>>>to keep it or our financial problem if I want to terminate it.  But, if
>>>>you tell me, when I'm 1 month pregnant that you want the child and that
>>>>you are prepared to help support us, convincing me to carry the pregnancy
>>>>to term, and then you back out, I definately will be after you for 
>>>>child support.

>Why?  I'm just exercising the male equivalent of abortion.

It is not an equivalent. I have already explained why.  

>>If you tell me you want a child and then I decide to have it,
>>then you change your mind.  I have gotten myself into one hell of a 
>>financial predicament based on your promise.  Therefore you are financially
>>responsible to me and the baby.  On the other hand, by choosing to abort,
>>when I originally said I wouldn't, may be a scummy thing to do, but it
>>certainly doesn't place similar burdens on you.

>No financial burden.  But it does place other burdens on me.

But we can only accurately measure, prove, and defend financial burdens, not
emotional one.

>>But that doesn't mean I agree to follow through with it.  I only agree to 
>>accept responsiblity for whatever happens to me.

>Fine.  Then when you get pregnant because you forgot to take a pill, you
>will accept responsbility for your pregnancy, right?

Right.  I will accept full responsiblity for it.  I will ask my partner what
he wants to do, take his wishes into consideration and either abort or
carry it depending upon the particular circumstances.

>Yup.  The inherent danger of throwing yourself out of an airplane CANNOT
>be nullified by putting on a parachute.

But it can be rectified by wearing a cast as a pregnancy can be terminated.

>>If you leave your plant in my house, do I have to water it?

>Your plant too.

The question remains.

>Nope.  Makes it possible to get his sperm back.

How?  Can he separate it from the ovum at that point?  You are ridiculous.

>>That is still no reason to imply consent to pregnancy when giving consent
>>to sex.

>If it is not for women, then it should not be for men.

Again, I agree with that.

-- 
Susan R. Hagan (shagan@gandalf.rutgers.edu) 
Publications Coordinator - User Services
Rutgers University Computing Services