HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.clinton,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: THE CLINTON DOCTRINE
Date: 9 Oct 92 15:30:34 GMT
Reply-To: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Columbia University

In article <1992Oct9.043352.26843@midway.uchicago.edu> wag5@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>	Athens and Sparta, two city-states with perhaps the greatest
>eligible voter turnout ever known to Democracy, warred against each other.
>Rome and the Germanic tribes, tribes led by Democratically-elected leaders
>went to war.

Athens, perhaps, even if decisions were made by a small fraction of
the actual population.  Sparta was an oligarchy (archons?).  I think
this is one of the contrasts Thucydides made.

Rome was pretty imperial by the time it went to war, etc.  Can't
comment about the government of the Carthagians.  And I don't know
anything about the Germanic tribes.

In any case, I was under the impression that this was a discussion of
modern democracies.  We have such sundries now as mass communication
(though this cuts both ways: we get to see the Other Side as not being
too different from us, making it harder to wage war.  We also may get
news more quickly, and may act before we have a chance to digest it.)

>	Those are examples in which two different Democracies went to war.
>There are MANY instances of Democracies invading or defending themselves from
>other states, or engaging in war with other states.  Want modern examples?

You neglect to mention: in democracies, there is in theory a method of
recall.  You can organize and petition to end wars.  Theoretically, we
are cultured to question authority, and it is very hard to fight
modern wars without popular support.  (Of course, public opinion can
be orchestrated by Our Leaders.  The Gulf War would be an example.)
It's not perfect, but there we theoretically have avenues of protest.

>Just wait a few years.  I'm sure if you try hard enough you'll get 'em.

I guess we'll see.

--
"Moors."  "Moops."  "Moors."  "Moops."  Psssssssssssss.....
From: pjm@cshl.org (Pat Monardo)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: Bush - Desperation, Depression, and Danger
Date: 13 Oct 92 15:34:05 GMT
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs

In article <1bdk7tINN2mt@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bsc7@po.CWRU.Edu (Bradley S. Corsello) writes:
>
>In a previous article, vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu () says:
>
>>You missed one. How about coming up with some excuse to issue The Executive
>>Orders (Gingrich style) and suspend The Constitution (and the election
>>as well). He's the kind of snake who might actually try something like
>>that. 
>
>I think Bush'd need a WHOPPER of a national emergency to pull that one off.
>It's not unthinkable, though.

Maybe it's time for Fidel to go.

-- 
-- Pat Monardo
-- pjm@cshl.org
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.elections
From: neil covey <ncovey@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Statistical question re tracking poll
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 21:52:43 GMT

In alt.politics.elections you write:

>The graph of tracking poll data which was posted earlier today, and
>which I reproduce below, looks too smooth to me. I would expect to see
>more scatter about curves fitted to the data if the usual 3-4%
>standard errors of sampling apply to the individual polls. The error
>of individual points appears to me to be more like 1-2%.  Does this
>imply that some sort of averaging of successive polls has been done?

The short answer to your question is yes.  Tracking polls are
notoriously inaccurate and usually show wild swings, or so says William
Schneider, CNN's polling ace.  CNN said the first day of their poll
they'd counter those swings by using 3-day averages; hence today's
tracking poll is the first one taken completely after the first
presidential debate--that is to say the one announced today  (Friday) is
based on results compiled Thursday of data accumulated Monday, Tuesday,
and Wednesday.
Xref: sparky alt.politics.elections:17212 talk.politics.misc:52253
From: atfurman@cup.portal.com (A T Furman)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Perot's IRS bill
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 23:11:58 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Oct15.154532.4368@fid.morgan.com> <1bk6bvINN20u@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>
  <Bw6suw.ErC@rice.edu>

>In article <1bk6bvINN20u@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> skywalke@dino.qci.bioch.bcm.tmc
>.edu (Timothy B. Reynolds) writes:
>>
>>Issues ! he doesn't have any yet, Im gonna fix-it !! Stay tuned !! 
>>More Later !!
>>He's just a cheap 1950's ad-man with a big wallet.
>>He is hiding, just admit it, why doesn't he give his book out if it 
>>is to help the American People ? It's not like he can't afford it.
>>I have passed out over two-thousand copies of the Clinton Plan "FREE".
>>
>>
>>-- 
>>Timothy B. Reynolds
>>CLINTON/GORE
>>Election Campaign '92
>>Houston, Tx 
>
>Is the Clinton Plan really "free"?  The money to print the plan has to
>be coming from somewhere.
>-- 
>*************************************************
>Vinay Julapalli Rao         vjrao@owlnet.rice.edu
>*************************************************

Not to mention the money to implement it.


    Alan T. Furman         | VOTE LIBERTARIAN!!  Marrou/Lord in 92!!
---------------------------+----------------------------------------
  atfurman@cup.portal.com  |   (800)682-1776 for more information
Xref: sparky alt.politics.elections:16389 alt.politics.marrou:1580 alt.individualism:5759
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.marrou,alt.individualism
Subject: Andre Marrou on Larry King Live
From: jack@totaltec.com
Date: 12 Oct 92 11:39:50 EST
Distribution: usa
Organization: Total Tec Systems, Inc.


  CNN News tells me that Andre Marrou will be the guest on 
  Larry King Live tonight 10/12/92.
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.perot
From: pjm@cshl.org (Pat Monardo)
Subject: Re: Vice Shrub won
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Labs
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 23:07:53 GMT

In article <DBROOKS.92Oct14181228@penge.osf.org> dbrooks@penge.osf.org (David Brooks) writes:
>Three more months!  Three more months!

thanks, David, i really liked your description of why you support Clinton.
even though i was born here, i am also concerned that America is not a place
i can continue to live in. health care embodies this concern more than
the deficit, because it reflects badly on the humanity of our leaders,
who, as you note, really benefit from our badly financed debt.
I believe Clinton has the moral basis to provide the type of
leadership i can believe in (if not profit from).

-- 
-- Pat Monardo
-- pjm@cshl.org
Xref: sparky alt.politics.elections:16077 alt.desert-storm:1928 sci.econ:8066
From: bks@alfa.berkeley.edu (Bradley K. Sherman)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,alt.desert-storm,sci.econ
Subject: Justice Department Impedes Bank Fraud Case
Date: 11 Oct 1992 08:10:37 GMT
Organization: Truth is Stranger than Fiction, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: alfa.berkeley.edu


The _New York Times_, 10 October 1992, p.1, California edition, writes:

    WASHINGTON, Oct. 9 -- Central Intelligence Agency officials have
    told Congress that, at the urging of the Justice Department,
    they deliberately withheld information from Federal prosecutors
    in Atlanta about a multi-billion dollar bank fraud involving
    Iraq, Government officials said today.
	...Robert M. Gates, Director of Central Intelligence, announced
    that he had asked the agency's inspector general to begin an
    investigation of the matter and submit a formal report by the
    end of the year. ...


Incredible! BCCI, Iran-Contra, Iraqgate, Bank Failures, the CIA,
and the Justice Department all arriving in Atlanta just in time
for the World Series.
----
    --Brad Sherman

On page 5, the Argentine weather service reports that the so-called
"ozone hole" had spread to the southern part of Tierra del Fuego,
home to around 50,000 people.  Sleep tight.
From: garrett@Ingres.COM
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
Subject: Bush's desperation
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:07:18 GMT
Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Ingres Product Division
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

campaign of desperation. Ever since Bush backed away from his 
"Family Values" his campiagn has been rudderless.
	It has been weeks since we heard anything positive 
out of the Bush camp. He hasn't even tried to defend his record
lately. He seems to be banking his whole presidential bid on 
discrediting his opponent. And this whole strategy is centered
around Clinton's draft record. If Bush knows something that he
hasn't told us, then we should hear it in the next few days before
the debate. If he doesn't, then he is extremely desperate, becuase
then he is banking his stategy on something he doesn't even have the
whole set of facts of. THAT'S DESPERATE.
	Other examples of desperation are:
1) Accusing Clinton of helping send aid to Iraq, when everyone and
   their mother knows that it was Bush that sent agriculture aid to
   Iraq. Also, Clinton met the ambassador from Iraq in 86', long before
   the scandel started.
2) Bush's failure to address the new Iran-Contra accusations from his
   former aides (and damaging memo).
3) Today's accusation from Bush's campaign manager about Clinton's 
   involvement in the Kennedy assasination (especially when Bush
   was the one who sent a memo to Kennedy before the assasination).
	If this is all the better Bush can do, then the final month
of the campaign should be dirty and pitiful. At least when Carter 
got stomped he did it with a sense of decency. Unless Bush has 
something up his sleeve (and it's getting very late for suprises)
then we will see record lows for American presidencies.

-Garrett
From: isbell@ai.mit.edu (Charles L Isbell)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: VP debates
Date: 14 Oct 92 11:49:26 GMT
	<ISBELL.92Oct13210923@panther.ai.mit.edu>
Followup-To: alt.politics.elections
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
In-reply-to: isbell@ai.mit.edu's message of 14 Oct 92 01:09:23 GMT

Stone Phillips is currently pointing out to Quayle that his "on page
304" comment simply isn't true.
 
By the way, there are reports that a senior official, Asst Sec of
State, has ordered ambassadors to gather any records on Clinton's
activities in Europe.  Quayle claims this may have been done in
response to a freedom of information act request by the media.  Stone
points out that 1) this is never done by the Asst Sec of State and 2)
it is unethical--and not done--to do these things without the
awareness of subject (ie Bill Clinton).  Comments?
--
Peace.
                           "If I could find a way to get [Saddam Hussein] out
                            of there, even putting a contract out on him, if
                            the CIA still did that sort of a thing, assuming
                            it ever did, I would be for it."
                                           -- Richard Nixon
                                   -\--/-
    Don't just adopt opinions     |  \/  |       Some of you are homeboys
          develop them.           |  /\  | but only I am The Homeboy From hell
                                   -/--\-
From: bx822@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ben Hansen)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: Bill, Moscow and the KGB
Date: 15 Oct 1992 16:04:48 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bx822@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ben Hansen)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, dbrooks@penge.osf.org (David Brooks) says:

>fox@cs.nyu.edu (David Fox) writes:
>> Its called Republican campaign strategy.  Luckily its not working,
>> thought you'll hear a lot of it this month cause its all they've
>> got left.
>
>If only this were true.  I'm convinced the October Surprise is being
>prepped, and it'll be pretty nasty.  These Republicans can't be allowing
>themselves such a bad campaign unless they have a killer revelation that'll
>make everything else moot.
>

 I'm starting to doubt the existence of an October Surprise. When we
were in Saudi Arabia during the early days of the air war, we were 
all sure Saddam was playing rope-a-dope. Well, I've met Muhammed
Ali, and George, you're no Muhammed Ali.

-- 
Ben Hansen
bx822@cleveland.freenet.edu
Xref: sparky alt.politics.elections:17454 alt.politics.bush:9593 alt.politics.clinton:11121 alt.politics.perot:2328
From: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Subject: Re: Vice Shrub won
Reply-To: egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy)
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 02:51:42 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.193820.28066@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> mulac@daystrom.lerc.nasa.gov (Richard Mulac) writes:
>In article <1992Oct14.163501.4938@ornl.gov> de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill) writes:
>>
>>CNN reported this morning that Gore voted against final approval of the
>>bill, or words to that effect.  So, although he might have at one time
>>supported an earlier version of it (they didn't say), in the vote that
>>counted he voted against it.  Gore was right.
>
>From what they reported on Nightline, I thought it was the other way
>around.  Gore voted twice against CBI in the early eighties, but when it
>was included in a large legislative package in 1990, he voted for it.  So
>the argument would now have to be - If one part of a large bill is
>detremental to the US worker, do you stand up and vote against it, or vote
>for the bill in order to get the pork tied in with the rest of the
>legislation?

This is supposition.  What was the rest of the larger bill?    


--
"Moors."  "Moops."  "Moors."  "Moops."  Psssssssssssss.....
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
Subject: Expectations??
From: jpucket@eis.calstate.edu (James Gerard Puckett)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 22:18:44 GMT
Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services

Just what do you people expect Bill Clinton to do when he gets in office??
Just like every other democrat this nation has ever seen... he will add
more "gift" programs to the budget.  This will cause him to have to call
for a tax increase....

He is a Governor of a low-income state.  We have seen commercials that say
he moved 17,000 people from welfare to payrolls.... Whose payrolls??
Government payrolls?? at what expense...  Bill Clinton comes into the
national spotlight at a time when world affairs are getting better... but to
whose credit.... would Mr. Bill have handled to confrontation with Saddam
Husein(sp?) as well?? Or would he have been off somewhere marching against
it?? Maybe in England?? Just because the USSR is now seperated doesn't
mean that we the Commander in Chief no longer be strong willed... Would
you call Bill Clinton strong willed... if you had to go to battle would
you want this Arkansas Governor as your leader... or a Veteran of war...
and of peace...  

Someone please tell me what you think Bill Clinton will be able to do that
Bush hasn't tried.  The budget?? the OMB sends a budget to congress where
each senator and representative chews it up and adds moves adjusts... the
pentagon wants more... everyone is looking for their own little peice...
until this stops... until congress starts looking out for the nation as a
"whole" and stops looking so closely at the PACs interests... the "whole"
nations problems won't get fixed..


+--+--+--+--+-----------+-----------+------------+------------+--+--+--+--+
|__|__|__|__|  Life: Rod Puckett                              |__|__|__|__|
|  |  |  |  |        Tifton, Ga (912) 386-8734                |  |  |  |  |
|--|--|--|--|                                                 |--|--|--|--|   
|__|__|__|__| LpMud: Rowdy @ Mizar, Paradox, & Lusty          |__|__|__|__|
|  |  |  |  |                                                 |  |  |  |  |
|--|--|--|--| jpucket@eis.calstate.edu                        |--|--|--|--|
|__|__|__|__+-----------+-----------+------------+------------|__|__|__|__|


-- 
+--+--+--+--+-----------+-----------+------------+------------+--+--+--+--+
|__|__|__|__|  Life: Rod Puckett                              |__|__|__|__|
|  |  |  |  |        Tifton, Ga (912) 386-8734                |  |  |  |  |
|--|--|--|--|                                                 |--|--|--|--|   
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.clinton
From: benjamin@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu (Benjamin Renaud)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: Vice Shrub won
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:17:42 GMT
Followup-To: alt.politics.elections
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory

In article <1992Oct14.141850.9611@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> walker@superboy.jsc.nasa.gov writes:

[About Stockdale having the qualification to be President]

>I really have to disagree with you there.  I think that qualifications
>to be President were exactly what Perot was looking for.  Not skill as a
>public speaker or debator.  

The job of President involves public speaking, speeches and debates.
One ought to be skilled at them if one ever wishes to be efficient.
Furthermore, and most importantly, Stockdale had VIRTUALLY NOTHING TO
SAY, BECAUSE HE DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING. Perot, however, knows very well
the numbers and knows what he's talking about. I don't fall for the
"nice poor guy caught in the middle of these sharks" because sure he
was a poor little sheep, but he was totally clueless, and i don't want
someone like that to ever be President.

>This man is a leader of me who knows the
>meaning of self-sacrifice for the greater good.  I cannot remember who
>it was but one of the first few Presidents actually had a stammer.  Can
>you imagine that in a debate.  What does that have to do with being a
>good President?

Stockdale demonstrated sheer ignorance of the issue. He shouldn't be
allowed to become Vice-President. Just like Quayle, except that he is
heroic and Quayle is...well we know what he is. But when a guy declare
that the issues don't matter, with  a straight face and all, and that
character is the prime thing... no way.

My take on this is: Perot didn't even consider for a second who to
choose a running mate, because he is so egocentric and make the whole
campaign revolve around himself. Strategically, he chipped away at
Bush in the first debate while Stockdale was instructed to hit on
Gore. It backfired, because Perot was so good with Bush and Stockdale
so pathetic against Gore.


Benjamin
benjamin@ai.mit.edu
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics,alt.fan.howard-stern,talk.politics.guns
From: mayne@phi.cs.fsu.edu (William Mayne)
Subject: Re: SPRINGTIME FOR THE BUSHMAN
Reply-To: mayne@cs.fsu.edu
Organization: Florida State University Computer Science Department
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 17:23:46 GMT

In article <1992Oct16.164523.12509@news.nd.edu> slarsen@berlin.helios.nd.edu (susan larsen) writes:
>
>Was it not Lee Atwater who went around making deathbed repentences to those 
>whom he was instrumental in savagely trashing?...
>
>Apparently, Atwater himself did not hold to the veracity of his statements 
>when he was confronted with the specter of his Maker.

As far as I know Atwater never said that anything is his negative ad
campaigns was false, just that it was wrong to use the facts the way
he did attacking opponents personally.

Bill Mayne
Xref: sparky alt.politics.elections:16486 talk.politics.misc:51413 alt.politics.bush:8923
From: atfurman@cup.portal.com (A T Furman)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: GEORGE HERBERT WALKER JOSEPH McCARTHY BUSH
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 10:45:38 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

doug@ramona.com writes:

>George, let's not forget what happened to Nixon after he started listening
>to the nuts in his party.

Judging from Clinton's toadying of "War on Drugs" neo-stalinism, he has
been listening to the nuts in Bush's party too.


    Alan T. Furman         | VOTE LIBERTARIAN!!  Marrou/Lord in 92!!
---------------------------+----------------------------------------
  atfurman@cup.portal.com  |   (800)682-1776 for more information
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc
From: rja@mahogany126.cray.com (Russ Anderson)
Subject: Re: Sixteen more years
Originator: rja@mahogany126
Organization: The 1991 World Champion Minnesota Twins!
Date: 14 Oct 92 14:39:06 CDT


In article <1992Oct12.212458.5626@csrd.uiuc.edu>, saarinen@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Sirpa Saarinen) writes:
> kgirodias@azcc.arizona.edu writes:
> 
> >> independent of who is President and what he does.  A Clinton/Gore win
> >> in 1992 will lead to
> >> 
> >>      Clinton/Gore in 1996
> >> 
> >>      Gore/Magaziner in 2000 (well, maybe not Ira.  Gore/Braun?)
> >> 
> >>      Gore/Braun in 2004
> >> 
> >Wrong, Bush will get it this year, VERY, VERY close and then Kemp in '96.
>              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Please post the data that you base your prediction on [of a close Bush 
> victory]! Does this mean that all those polls are wrong? Do all of those
> who are polled lie (actually, do both rep's and dem's lie)? I can understand
> a 4 % difference but in many states the difference is 10 % (very much
> above a sample error).
> 
> I and many others are waiting to hear from you!

Have they been polling in the cemeteries?   :-)

-- 
Russ Anderson    |  Disclaimer: Any statements are my own and do not reflect
------------------              upon my employer or anyone else.  (c) 1992
EX-Twins' Jack Morris, 10 innings pitched, 0 runs (World Series MVP!)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc,tx.politics
From: joec@fid.morgan.com (Joe Collins)
Subject: Re: The end of the Reagan Era
Organization: None
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 13:15:20 GMT

In article <1992Oct16.010232.8678@NeoSoft.com> hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen) writes:
>In article <1992Oct15.125744.4200@fid.morgan.com>, joec@fid.morgan.com (Joe Collins) writes:
>> Lets not forget that the (democratically-controlled) Congress has to
>> approve ALL spending, revenue-raising, taxes. The President has no
>> power to spend money unless Congress gives it to him. Only the Congress
>> can borrow money and go into debt. Its in the Constitution (Article 1, 
>> sections 7,8).
> 
>Ever hear of the veto?  If Bush had had more than 1 veto overturned he
>might have a case.  But it's clear that he agreed to the budget
>compromises.  If he didn't veto the spending bills he's just as
>responsible as Congress.
>-- 
>Doug Andersen
>hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com

Bush has screwed on those compromises but again, Congress can absolutely 
override him. So the President has the veto power and Congress can
override it if they can muster the votes. But only Congress has the
authority to raise taxes, raise the debt, spend money, etc. - The
President does not have that power.

Joe
joec@morgan.com
From: dxc4@po.CWRU.Edu (David Condon)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: advice for candidates following first debate
Date: 13 Oct 1992 06:05:25 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: dxc4@po.CWRU.Edu (David Condon)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, labiche@crchh561.BNR.CA (Maurice LaBiche) says:

>some advice for the candidates:
>
>Clinton - loosen up, you seem to stiff and over rehearsed
>
>Perot   - put out some solid plans on what you'd do when your
>          in office instead of saying "i'll get a team together..."
>
>Bush    - lay off the Halcion, things aren't as good as you think
>          also lay off the personal jabs(I'm suprised you didn't 
>          mention the Draft thing, but your probably expecting
>          Quayle to bring it up during the VP debates.
>
Bwahaha! Quayle better NOT. James Stockdale was a POW in Vietnam. That
puts him in a position to harsh on Quayle AND Clinton.
-- 
"In universities, it is forbidden     |  "Personally, my politics are so far
to teach nonsense. But the _history_  |  to the right, I consider Paul Revere
of nonsense -- that's scholarship!"   |  to be a pinko."
               -- Saul Lieberman      |                 -- Tom Grundner