From: eyc@acpub.duke.edu (EMIL CHUCK)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.abortion,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: DATELINE: Bush fucks up!
Summary: If you don't patronize the arts, don't patronize me.
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:11:06 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

mulvihil@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Lawrence Mulvihill) writes:
\eyc@acpub.duke.edu (EMIL CHUCK) writes:
\>chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman) writes:
\>!eisimps@cie.uoregon.edu (Eileen Simpson) writes:
\>! Her father had stated that
\>!he would kill any daughter of his who became pregnant before marriage
\>!and she had every reason to believe him.  I wish I'd saved the article;
\>
\>On the other hand if her father were really that serious about killing
\>his daughter over premarital pregnancy, then I am very grieved over the
\>situation. 
\Your concern is touching.
\>His statement certainly is not indicative of a very healthy
\>family relationship.
\A brilliant deduction!
\>If he cannot accept that sometimes threatening to
\>kill someone doesn't help, then the father truly does not understand
\>how to encourage trust and love in the family. 
\Absolutely brilliant!
	Uh, oh. I know something's wrong when someone gives me three
compliments in a row without additional comment. Let's see what I've
done to deserve this. ...

\>Besides, if he did kill
\>her, he'd be charged with TWO counts of murder.
\Now that should be a really comforting thought to her!
	About as comforting as getting an abortion, right?

\>        I submit though that this stance is not taken by all fathers to
\>their daughters. 
\Yes, but the "RIGHT TO LIFE" amendment would apply to all daughters,
\wouldn't it?
	I don't recall ever saying anything about the proposed
Right-to-Life amendment to the network. I am not in favor of the
strictness of the Republican platform since it does not account for
rape, incest, or medical reasons related to the life of the mother.

\>This story is very tough to swallow, 
\Now, faced with a world where Beaver and Wally are only TV
\characters, he must reject reality and call the woman a liar.
	Where did I say that? Please point out to me where I have made
such an accusation.

\>as I'm sure there
\>are equally emotional stories that the pro-lifers ("forced-birthers")
\>can write up and submit to the net. 
\How does that disprove the veracity of her story?
	I don't doubt that the story is true. I have not said that, nor
did I even (intend to) state any statement that casts doubt of the
veracity of the story.

\>No side wins in the above story
\We are not discussing "sides" or "winning", we are discussing
\a unquestionable human being (although she is only a woman)
\who had to make a life threatening decision to assure her survival.
	What do YOU mean by "although she is only a woman"? Women are
human beings, if you wanted me to affirm that to you, lest you don't
want me to "impose my morality" that I think women are human as well as
men.

\> she
\>did not need to have performed a self-induced abortion, and if she had a
\>legal abortion, I doubt this action could have helped her relationship
\>with her father.
\Missed the point again, did we?
	Already covered that point in a previous post. I missed _your_
point and no doubt you missed mine.

\>Making abortion available to this woman I doubt helped
\>her family be more closer and more trusting.
\
\We are not discussing how to make families "closer and more trusting".
	We sure are if this is truly the situation between a
recalcitrant father and his daughter who wants his support. If a
daughter cannot go to her father for his love and support for this
shattering revelation that she's pregnant (premarital), then whatever
she does will be met with scorn from her father. This wall between
Sylvia and her dad needs to be torn down. What would her dad do if he
found out that Sylvia were pregnant (post-abortion)? What would you do
if you were her dad?

\We are discussing the termination of a "human life", or the removal
\of fetal tissue which has the "potential for human life".  Personally
\I can't remember being born, I was hardly human, but then me memory
\ain't what she used to be...what was the question again?
	My question is -- without resorting to any personal attacks on
me -- telling me what you expect with a relationship with your friends,
your spouse, and/or your children. What constitutes a healthy
relationship?

-- 
Emil Thomas Chuck		DUKE BLUE DEVILS: 1992 ACC CHAMPIONS!
Biomedical Engineer 1993	1992 EAST REGIONAL CHAMPIONS!!
Duke University, Durham, NC	AND 1992 NCAA NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!!!
August 31, 1992 - May 16, 1993	Duke football? What's that?
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.abortion,alt.politics.bush