HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shams@sun18.vlsi
Subject: BOSNIA, THE MUSLIM PERSPECTIVE
Keywords: Bosnia, Talk, Zafar Bangash, Waterloo, MSA
Reply-To: shams@sun18.vlsi.
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 05:14:11 GMT

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<>									<>
<>			   University of Waterloo			<>
<>			Muslims Students Association			<>
<>			 	 ( M S A )				<>
<>									<>
<>======================================================================<>
<>									<>
<>	Presents:	BOSNIA, THE MUSLIM PERSPECTIVE			<>
<>									<>
<>	By:		ZAFAR  BANGASH,					<>
<>			Editor in Chief of the 				<>
<>			"Crescent International" Biweekly		<>
<>									<>
<>	DATE:	Thursday October 15th					<>
<>	TIME:	7:30 p.m.						<>
<>	PLACE:	Rm. 1302, Davis Center, U of W				<>
<>									<>
<>======================================================================<>
<>									<>
<>			All Are Welcome					<>
<>									<>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

	Muslim Students Association,
	University of Waterloo
From: U15231@uicvm.uic.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Slow Death of Bosnia's Identity
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:32:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: uicvm.92287.113216U15231
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
From: condic@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: USTASHA GENOCIDE
Date: 13 Oct 92 18:29:48 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

If you love the truth, Good Morning!
 If you do not, no human communication is possible!

NO MORE LIES--Reposting #28

"To claim that ca. 700,000 [Serbs] were killed in the
concentration camp at Jasenovac is pure nonsense. One has
to ask oneself: How could it have been possible, when
within the borders of today's Croatia and Bosnia-Hercegovina
there were ca. 1,966,000 Serbs in 1941, and 1,610,000
in 1948--and this in spite of many migrations and many
killings not attributable to the ustasha?"
--Dr. Bogoljub Kocovic, World War II Victims in Yugoslavia,
(in Serbian), Veritas Foundation Press, London, 1985, p. 54.

-- 
************************************************************
ANYONE CAN HAVE AN OPINION ON ANYTHING,INSTANTANEOUSLY! BUT,
OPINIONS, AS SUCH, ARE GENERALLY WORTHLESS, UNLESS THEY ARE
WELL-GROUNDED ON SOUND EVIDENCE AND VALID ARGUMENTS! J.CONDIC,
E-MAIL:CONDIC@GW:WMICH.EDU;GEN.STUDIES,WMU,KALAMAZOO,MI 49008
*************************************************************
From: dani@infopls.chi.il.us (N)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: REBUTTLE
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 16:44:37 CDT
Organization: INFOPLUS support, Wheeling, IL

MENE MOJA NAUCILA MATI PJEVAJ SINE ZIVILI HRVATI
MENE MOJA NAUCILA STINA SVIM SRBIMA PICKA MATERINA


JEDAN, DVA USTASA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--
dani@infopls.chi.il.us (N)
Infoplus BBS, +1 708 537 0247, v32bis. Home of Infoplus.
From: abrodnik@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca (Andrej Brodnik (Andy))
Subject: YASC (yet another sincere question)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 05:28:19 GMT

In article <9228110.19480@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> ljubicic@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Robert LJUBICIC) writes:
>
>I hope one day that the Poglavnik Ante Pavelic's remains will
>be returned to the homeland. Ante Pavelic was prognan as many
>Croats were and are being prognani by the Serbs. 
>
>The ONLY proljev and govno around is SERBIA and the fascist
>Chetniks.
>
>"Tito je ziv, Tito je s nama, njegova djela vjecno u nama..."
>to this I say:
>"Pavelica podrodila vila ali Tita vrsala KOBILA" 

My question is not related toward these very words, but to general
attitude or flavour of similar postings. I don't want to discuss their
form nor content, but only post a couple of questions related toward
Ante Pavelic and his regime during WWII. I admit that they are
certainly flavoured by the background of my education (as any others
are and hence also, I beleive, the mentioned postings), therefore I'd
appreciate sincere answers as I got them for my previous question
(BTW, thanx for all of them. I responded some personally, but let me
use an opportunity to thank others as well).

Ok, now to the questions. According to my education or books Ustashas
during WWII killed a number of people (some Serbian sources are
quoting numbers up to 700.000 and Croatian once down to 70.000). At
this moment the very number is not important, but the crime itself.
What is your opinion about these deaths (not the number, but the act
itself)? Further, it seems to be widely accepted (at least according
to my education) that Ante Pavelic is directly responsible for the
crime. How do you interpret this? And if he is responsible, what is
the reason that you are still putting forward his name?

Thank you in advance for the answer,

Andrej
From: damir@infopls.chi.il.us (Damir Matanic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Re: REBUTTLE
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 20:46:31 CDT
Organization: INFOPLUS support, Wheeling, IL

dani@infopls.chi.il.us (N) writes:

> MENE MOJA NAUCILA MATI PJEVAJ SINE ZIVILI HRVATI
> MENE MOJA NAUCILA STINA SVIM SRBIMA PICKA MATERINA
> 
> 
> JEDAN, DVA USTASA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> --
> dani@infopls.chi.il.us (N)
> Infoplus BBS, +1 708 537 0247, v32bis. Home of Infoplus.

That sounds beutiful!

Nek smo svi "Za Dom Spremni"!

Damir

--
damir@infopls.chi.il.us (Damir Matanic)
Infoplus BBS, +1 708 537 0247, v32bis. Home of Infoplus.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
From: ddc@nyquist.bellcore.com (Daniel Chukurov 21324)
Subject: Re: >
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 02:15:34 GMT

In article <9228211.22500@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> ljubicic@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Robert LJUBICIC) writes:
>.
>
>.

The above article is a proof of Ljubicic's empty head.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
From: abrodnik@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: YASC(yet another sincere question)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 23:32:58 GMT

In article <92281.100618U52148@uicvm.uic.edu> <U52148@uicvm.uic.edu> (Chicago Cro) writes:
>The reasons we mention the name Ante Pavelic with honor is beceuse:
>
>   1) He unified the Croatian provinces split up through history.
>
>   2) He showed the Serbs that they should not fuck with us.
>
>   3) Given the repressive regime prior to WWII, Ustasa was reactionary.

		[ a lot of interresting text deleted ]

> I hope I answered your question.

Thanx a lot. Yes, you did answer on most of my questions. I completely
now acknowledge your attitude toward Pavelic, though I have two
comments. The first one is regarding "his uniting of alll Croats".
Namely from history books I learned that the real political leader of
Croats before WWII was Macek and Croats were more or less united
behind him. How do you comment on this? And further, I'd like to
repeat a question regarding your position regarding Pavelic's direct
responsibility of deaths of so many people.

Thanx once more for your sincere answer, and I'm looking forward to
proceed with this thread,

Andrej
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
From: cicic@cc.uow.edu.au (muris cicic)
Subject: UN RESOLUTION
Keywords: un
Organization: University Of Wollongong
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 04:02:09 GMT

I am looking for full-text Security Counsil's  Resolution, by which is
Serbia expelled from United Nations.   Your help is greatlly appreciated.
Thanks,

Muris Cicic
(m.cicic@uow.edu.au)
From: wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Edward Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Back to the Middle Ages: the confessions of Damir Matanic
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:07:55 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.


The following filth was posted in soc.culture.yugoslavia by
Damir Matanic.  Why were you so eager to conceal this from
Bosnian readers, Damir?

------------begin---------------------------------------------

To my fellow Croats:

  Guys, we should stop posting to this net.  When we do post 
messages\replys, then we're supporting the very existance of 
soc.culture.yugoslavia.  It's about time that we Croats create 
soc.culture.Croatia.  Also, we can always express our views of 
soc.culture.Bosna-Hercegovina. Yugoslavia is dead, as should be this 
newsgroups.
Down with the Yugo-Cetnik newsgroup!!!!!!!!!

To all "Serbo-slavs" and their supporters:

  You so-called "people" simply discust me. 
While we Croats have independent Croatia, and the Muslims have Bosna, 
what on Earth do you Serbs have?????!?  
Vi imate vasu Jugoslaviju.
You "people" are not Serbians.  You're all Yugoslavs.  Serbia has to hide 
behind "Yugoslavia" in order to exist.

&|
Pro Serbians, huh?!?
Bull !
If you all were proud Serbs, then you would not be hiding behind your 
Yugoslav "Kurve", i.e. Serbian\Yugo communists!!
Simply pathetic!
The synonym for Serb is "TRASH".

Fact:
  Serbia is responsible for this war because of your eternal fascistic 
fantasy of "Greater Serbia"

Fact:
  This has been evident since the creation of the 1st Yugo.

Fact:
  Our Croatian communists are responsible for not preparing Croatia for 
this war.

Fact:
  The Serbs are responsible for their own deaths in WW II, i.e. they 
asked for it.

Fact:
  The so-called genocide that the Serbs experienced during WW II is 
propaganda\lies.  This propaganda was designed by the Yugo communists in 
order to discredit the true Croatian nationalist.

Fact:
  The Serbians are Europe's only remaining fascists.

Fact:
  The Serbs must pay dearly for thier crimes against Croatia and 
Herceg-Bosna.

Fact:
  Serbians=Trash=crap="stoka"
This definition applys for the vast majority of Serbians.  The few Serbs 
that don't fit this discription are a unheard minority.

Fact:
  Eddie is a mentaly disturbed, serb\cetnik\fascist supporting, piece of 
hog manure.  Anyone who can openly sympathize with Serbian cetniks fits 
this description.

**Serbian cetniks should be punished by execution

That basicaly sums up my fealings.  I won't be responding to any messages 
on this newsgroup anymore. So, once-and-for-all, ROT IN HELL SERBIAN 
DUBAR!  I do hope that your historical borders are restored, i.e. those 
in 1878 (no Kosovo, no Vojvodina, no Sandzak, etc...).

Hrvatska Hrvatima
                          Za Dom Spremni !

U           U
U           U
U           U
U           U
U           U
U           U
U           U
 UUUUUUUUUUU

-------------------------end-----------------------------------------------



--Eduard
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
From: snggab01@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Re: Fascists on the net II
Date: 9 Oct 92 10:44:34 +0200
Organization: University of Cape Town

In article <1992Oct7.025315.20717@latcs1.lat.oz.au>, keserovi@ipc5.lat.oz.au (Goran Keserovic) writes:
> 
>   Tel us then why was Ante Pavelic's wife a Jew ???
So what! Stalin was a vicious anti-Semite (obsessed during his last days by
the idea that a group of Jewish doctors were out to kill him.) who had a Jewish
wife,a wife who wanted nothing to do with Jews or Judaism.It is only fascist
dogs such as you who have been brainwashed.
> 
>   Now, why don't you also tell us about the two Serbian stamps that were
>   issued by Serbia in 1941 proclaiming Serbia as Jewish free, and
>   portaying Jews as sankes that the Serb hand will kill ???
> 
> 
>   WAKE UP YOU IGNORANT, BRAINWASHED FOOL.
 First of all,I would like you to substantiate your claim about the Serbian
 stamp.Was it produced before or after the German invasion of Yugoslavia
in May/June 1941.Secondly,even if such a stamp was produced,the Serbs did not
 set up extermination camps for Jews as the Croats did.Try reading an account
of the trial of Andrija Artukovic for reliable evidence of Croatian complicity
in wiping out Yugo-Jewry.Try reading a few eye-witness accounts of survivors
of Ustashe death camps to establish who did the killings.
I have nothing against Croatians as such.I have everything against Croatian
Fascists.
 DEATH  TO THE FASCIST H.O.S.




Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe
From: jt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jeno Torocsik)
Subject: Vujity Tvrutko - US lecture tour
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 23:35:48 GMT

A 20 year old Hungarian war reporter, Vujity Tvrutko, has been reporting
from Yugoslavia for one and a half years. He made interviews with most of
the leading figures of the crisis, broadcasted from the front lines, from
closed cities, from POW camps, was imprisoned and wounded twice.
 
My association was asked to organize a US lecture tour for him. The following
letter gives a more detailed description of him and the planned tour.
 
Should you and your institution be intrested in hosting Vujity Tvrutko,
please contact me and forward the letter to whom it may concern.  
 
Feel free to send me email for further information. 
 
Jeno Torocsik 
email (please write to this address, not only to this newsgroup): 
ecom001hueco.uni-wien.ac.at 
 
tel./fax: 011-36-1-184-9295
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeno Torocsik 
Apeiron Association 
Budapest 
Gepmadar ut 9., 3. em. 18.
HUNGARY 
Tel./Fax: 36-1 184-9295 
email: ecom001hueco.uni-wien.ac.at
 
Dear Sir/Madam:
 
In May, 1991, an 18 year old Hungarian -ethnic Croatian-, Vujity Tvrutko
set off to Yugoslavia as a self-made war reporter. He made interviews with
personalities like Milan Panic, Franjo Tudjman, Alia Izetbegovich, 
Radovan Karadzich, Mate Boban, Stepan Kluyich, Reis ul Ulema Selimoski, 
Ibrahim Rugova, Voislav Seselj, was wounded and imprisoned twice.
 
In 1992 he received the Hungarian Pulitzer for his objective and
comprehensive investigative reporting. His reports were broadcasted 
by, among else, the BBC and large Austrian and German media. His book 
on the war  was published in Hungary 1992, the English, German and Italian 
editions are expected to appear early next year. His film on the Yugoslavian 
situation was shown by almost all large Western TV networks. His lectures 
in Austrian and Hungarian universities great popularity. At present 
he is working for a number of Hungarian papers and is employed by
the Hungarian National Security Office as an expert. 
 
Vujity Tvrutko is planning a lecture tour in the US between November 25
and December 30, and would be delighted to visit your institution too.
His lecture would include a thorough analysis of the Yugoslavian crisis
and his film going to be made this month showing the recent situation.
However, he cannot, himself, finance his trip, which is why he turned to
our association. If your institution should be interested in hosting
Vujity Tvrutko, it is necessary that some contribution be made to his
travel expenses. Please feel free to contact me at the above tel./fax no.
or e-mail address for further information.
 
                                                    Yours sincerely
 
                                                    Jeno Torocsik
 
  P.S.: A further objective of Vujity Tvrutko's US tour would be to
collect aid for the refugees of the Yugoslavian crisis. As - unfortunately
- their numbers are constantly growing, all support is extremely welcome.
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 9 Oct 1992 11:05:26 CDT
From: <U15231@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Modra Rijeka

To: Iztok.Hozo@math.lsa.umich.edu
From: BOSNET@math.lsa.umich.edu
Organization: BOSNET (Bosnian Electronic Network)

Contribution by: Dragoljub.Bilanovic


              MODRA RIJEKA



              Niko ne zna gdje je ona
              malo znamo al je znano
              iza gora iza dola
              iza sedam iza osam
              i jos hudje i jos ludje
              preko mornih preko gorkih
              Preko gloga preko drace
              preko zege preko stege
              preko slutnje preko sumnje
              iza devet iza deset
              i jos dublje i jos jace
              iza sutnje iza tmace
              gdje pijetlovi ne pjevaju
              gdje se ne zna za glas roga
              i jos hudje i jos ludje
              iza uma iza boga
              ima jedna modra rijeka
              siroka je duboka je
              sto godina siroka je
              tisuc ljeta duboka jest
              o duljini i ne sanjaj
              tma i tmusa neprebolna
              ima jedna modra rijeka
              ima jedna modra rijeka
              valja nama preko rijeke

                             MAK - OD BOSNE - DIZDAR
From: U42824@uicvm.uic.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Bosnian Solution
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:30:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: uicvm.92289.133023U42824
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago


 I think the solution for the Bosnian war is to round up all the
Serbs and put them all in Serbia. Then we detonate low-level nukes on them.

-Za dom spremni!

-Suleiman
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
From: bhmughal@athena.mit.edu (Bilal H Mughal)
Subject: Re: RFI News, Paris, Oct.7
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 02:13:26 GMT

In article <92282.123117U15231@uicvm.uic.edu>, U15231@uicvm.uic.edu writes:
|> Subject:    RFI-News_Wednesday
|> Reply-To: saiti@math.msu.edu
|> Organization: BOSNET (Bosnian Electronic Network)
|> 
|> Contribution by: Lamija_Tanovic
|> 
|> 	RFI News - Paris, Wednesday, October 7, 1992.
|> 
...

|> 	The first question was about the mujahedins fighting in Bosnia.
                                         ^^^^^^^^^
|> 	Mr. Izetbegovic responded that we do not need mujahedins, and that
|>   we had enough Bosnian young men who need weapon.

...

|> 
|> 	Translated by Naim Saiti

A minor lexical note.  The term "Mujahideen" or "Mujahedin" is intrinsically
plural.  The corresponding singular is "Mujahid".

Sorry if you feel I am splitting hairs.
Bilal
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tuesday, 6 Oct 1992 23:28:26 CDT
From: <U15231@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Serbian President Milosevic meets Bobby Fischer


        BELGRADE, Yugoslavia (UPI) -- Communist President Slobodan Milosevic
of Serbia met Tuesday with former world chess champion Bobby Fischer as
the grand master took a two-day break from his historic rematch with his
Russian arch-rival, Boris Spassky.
        The authoritarian Serbian leader used the meeting to launch a new
attack on U.N. economic sanctions slapped on his republic for
underwriting the Serbian territorial conquests in neighboring Bosnia-
Hercegovina.
        ``I am glad that our country is in the position to be the host of
such a significant chess match between Fischer and Spassky...especially
at a time when our nation is under an unjust blockade,'' Milosevic was
quoted by the official Tanjug news agency as telling the American chess
wizard.
        The Fischer-Spassky match has been extensively publicized by
Milosevic's regime in a bid to counter the international isolation and
economic devastation wrought to Serbia by the U.N. sanctions.
        The May 30 blockade included an oil, air and trade embargo and banned
financial transactions with Serbia and its tiny protege, Montenegro.
        Despite the prohibition, Fischer and Spassky agreed to play a $5
million rematch of their 1972 world champiomship at the invitation of a
private Belgrade banker, Jezdimir Vasiljevic.
        The U.S. Treasury Department ordered Fischer not to play, but he
publicly spat on the document at a news conference on the eve of the
opening game at the posh Adriatic resort of St. Stefan in Montenegro.
        The pair have played 15 games -- beginning in St. Stefan and then
moving to Belgrade -- of which Fischer has won five and Spassky three.
They were to resume the match on Wednesday after a two-day break.
        By the time Fischer was 14, he was U.S. chess champion. A year later
he became the youngest grandmaster in chess history.
        He captured the world's attention by defeating Spassky and becoming
the first American ever to hold the title of world champion on Sept. 1,
1972.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna:264 soc.culture.turkish:10490
From: U15231@uicvm.uic.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna,soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Eugleburger Says U.S. Pressing for 'No-Fly' Zone Over Bosnia
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:09:00 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

From: BOSNET@math.msu.edu (Bosnian Electronic Network)
Subject:    AP-News
Reply-To: saiti@math.msu.edu
Organization: BOSNET (Bosnian Electronic Network)

Contribution by: Croatian-News

Eagleburger Says U.S. Pressing `No-Fly' Zone in Bosnia
By GENE KRAMER
Associated Press Writer

    WASHINGTON (AP) - The United States is concerned about the
killing of Muslims in Bosnia-Herzegovina and is pressing allies to
enforce a ban on military flights there, says acting Secretary of
State Lawrence Eagleburger.
    ``We are very sensitive to the Muslim world's view that the West
is permitting killing of Muslims in Bosnia-Herzegovina while acting
differently in Iraq,'' where ``no-fly'' zones have been declared,
Eagleburger said in a television interview Tuesday.
    A no-fly zone would halt Serbian or Bosnian Serbian air attacks
against U.N. humanitarian flights in the war-torn former Yugoslav
republic. Bosnia has no combat planes. Eagleburger said it would
also mean the Serbians can't use their aircraft to attack Bosnian
Muslims in their policy of ``ethnic cleansing.''
    More than 14,000 people have been killed in Bosnia since Bosnian
Serbs rebelled against a vote in February by majority Muslims and
Croats to secede from Yugoslavia. Serbs, initially backed by the
Yugoslav army, have seized about two-thirds of Bosnian territory.
    Informal closed debates on the flight ban are under way with
Britain, France and other U.N. Security Council members,
Eagleburger said, predicting the result could be a compromise
involving first trying measures short of using force to enforce the
ban.
    ``We had a debate in the U.S. government about it and are having
a debate with some of our allies,'' he said on public television's
``MacNeil-Lehrer NewsHour'' program.
    The situations are ``totally different,'' Eagleburger said, but
the United States nevertheless recognizes that ``the Muslim world
looks on aghast as more and more Muslims are killed. There is no
question that this weighed heavily on (President Bush) and all of
us ... and this government tried to demonstrate to the Muslim world
that we care about that and want to do something about that.
    ``The president has decided, and I think rightly so, that the
situation in and around Sarajevo and Bosnia is so disastrous now we
need to move hard and fast to prevent it from becoming worse,''
Eagleburger added. ``But I can understand the French, British or
anyone else'' with ground troops in the area wanting to think
through the consequences.
    Eagleburger disputed a suggestion that the decision resulted
from pressure from Bill Clinton, Bush's Democratic campaign rival,
for stronger U.S. intervention. ``We have been debating this and
... with all respect to the governor, he had nothing to do with
it,'' he said.
    AP-NY-10-07-92 0150EDT
_____________________________________________________________________________