HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Subject: Re: Next?
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 13:36:33 GMT

In article <BzFEwI.CLC@cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes:
}In article <1992Dec17.133858.6071@linus.mitre.org>, m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
}|> 
}|> I have basically the same question, but it can be expressed three different ways slanted
}|> to each of the newsgroups this is cross-posted to:
}|> 
}|> What is next?
}|> 
}|> talk.origins:  On the evolutionary side, homo sapiens is seen as merely the most recent
}|> step in a series of rungs in a ladder.  What do you see as the "next rung"? 
}I have big problems with this.  Humans are exactly as old as every other
}part of the planet.  Grasses, ants, and bacteria are just as well adapted
}and successful as humans (possibly more so).  I see no ladder.

I said nothing about the rest of the net, let alone giving homo sap's relative
position.  You are objecting to assumptions that you, not I, made.

}|> alt.consciousness:  A corpse is less conscious than a sleeping person is less conscious
}|> than an infant is less conscious than an adult.  Whatever "conscious" is, this seems
}|> to be a reasonable comparison.  What do you see as the step after "adult" along the
}|> same progression?
}Hmm.  I never thought that the difference between sleeping and awake was
}a matter of "amount of consciousness", as the sleeping individual
}may be very active mentally and experience "a different consciousness".
}Similarly, the conscious experience of a baby is probably incomparable
}to an adult.
}
}Thus, I see no progression.

I was giving sample points for what I was talking about, since the "definition"
is so unsatisfactory as to what "consciousness" is.  Hence, if you are
referring to something other than that which I spoke, you are objecting
to an assumption that you, not I, made.

}|> talk.religion.misc: many religions appear to aspire towards some form of "elevation
}|> to godhood", "enlightenment", "dietification",...  What are the characteristics
}|> of these advanced (by whatever means) entities?
}
}This question answers itself.  Various religions define such concepts,
}consult the appropriate source for the alleged characteristics of such
}alleged advanced alleged entities.  Most of these concepts have no
}existance outside the religion in which they are defined.

Which was why I asked for talk.religion.misc.  Those who express the ideas
do not concur that they have no objective reality.  Hence, let THEM answer.
You are objecting to an assumption of reality that you, not I, made.

For fun, why not answer what was asked in the scenario asked instead of making
your own (wrong) assumptions, then objecting to yourself?


Xref: sparky alt.consciousness:791 talk.origins:15816 talk.religion.misc:24320
From: salem@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Bruce Salem)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness,talk.origins,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Next?
Date: 21 Dec 1992 03:25:23 GMT
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
NNTP-Posting-Host: pangea.stanford.edu

In article <aquilanm.724896657@helium> aquilanm@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Mark T Aquilano ) writes:
>If you can imagine machines that will be able to match the cognitive capacity
>of humans, which seems very possible in the not-too-distant future, do you
>wonder if there is anything that can separate people from mechanical 
>intelligence?  Or are WE only very sophisticated thinking machines?

	Machine intelligence already can match and exceed human cognitive
ability in certian narrowly defined pursuits. The differences between
animal and human intelligence on the one hand machine intelligence have
to do with first getting some definition of the formner and then matching
these with performance in the latter. That has not so much to do with
the Turing Test, as important as that might be, as to replacing damaged
faculties in people with the latter, which is distinctly possible for
some functions.

	If you read last September's Scientific American you got the
strong message that what we experience as consciousness is partly
the integrated effect of discrete brain functions, some of which were
quite easy to localize in specfic anatomy, others of which are not
easy at all to localize. The brain as we understand it is not made of
only descrete functional componants, and the way it learns and develops
experience is nowhere as simple as programming a computer, but nor is
is an indivisable entity such as mind or soul.

	The answer to questions like these lie at the heart of prejudiced
approaches to origins that beg first the definition of things human as
totally unique and different in kind from other things, especially those
of nature and the animals that share Earth with us.

Bruce Salem


Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: bennett@deepthought.unm.edu (Paul Bennett)
Subject: Re: I-Ching
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 23:09:54 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Math & Stat, University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Keywords: entropy

      I think it is very important to point out here that the sages who
wrote the original I-Ching long ago are reported by modern authors to
have emphasized that the I-Ching expresses the changes for all of nature.
(Bad choice of word, but I can't do any better.) Human nature is
included in this. But it would still apply even if there were no human
beings, I think. 


* Paul Bennett                   There might not be a greater truth.
* bennett@gauss.unm.edu          Is death inevitable?
* Standard disclaimers here. These opinions are certainly mine, not dept's.
Xref: sparky alt.consciousness:786 talk.origins:15776 talk.religion.misc:24203
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness,talk.origins,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Next?
Date: 18 Dec 92 18:23:09 GMT
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science

In article <1992Dec18.133633.18565@linus.mitre.org>, m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes in part:
|> I said nothing about the rest of the net, let alone giving homo sap's relative
|> position.  You are objecting to assumptions that you, not I, made.
No, I was commenting on your precise statement.    Please explain what 
you were really saying if I got it wrong.

|> }Thus, I see no progression.
|> 
|> I was giving sample points for what I was talking about, since the "definition"
|> is so unsatisfactory as to what "consciousness" is.  Hence, if you are
|> referring to something other than that which I spoke, you are objecting
|> to an assumption that you, not I, made.
No, I was referring precisely to what you said.  Perhaps you should
explain what you meant if I misunderstood.

|> Which was why I asked for talk.religion.misc.  Those who express the ideas
|> do not concur that they have no objective reality.  Hence, let THEM answer.
|> You are objecting to an assumption of reality that you, not I, made.
...which I thought was what you asked.  Or are "THEY" the only one's
qualified to have an opinion.

|> For fun, why not answer what was asked in the scenario asked instead of making
|> your own (wrong) assumptions, then objecting to yourself?

KMA, son.  For fun why don't you explain yourself clearly.  If my
comments are based on a misunderstanding of what you intended then
explain what you meant better.  Jsut because you can't express your
ideas clearly is no excuse for insulting me.

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: akhanna@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: when yer drunk
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 05:04:51 GMT

When  yer drunk yer friend that's aboy don't wanna be around you cause his
dad was drunk a lot.  But my friends suddenly look very attractive.
is it reslly right like freud or somebody's mother said about sex
when you drink.  like it's lurking under the surface.
boys girls.
luv em
bye late at nighty
night nighty
cause i'm not lying
kelly
i'm not kelly
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness,talk.origins,talk.religion.misc
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Subject: Next?
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 13:38:58 GMT


I have basically the same question, but it can be expressed three different ways slanted
to each of the newsgroups this is cross-posted to:

What is next?

talk.origins:  On the evolutionary side, homo sapiens is seen as merely the most recent
step in a series of rungs in a ladder.  What do you see as the "next rung"? 

alt.consciousness:  A corpse is less conscious than a sleeping person is less conscious
than an infant is less conscious than an adult.  Whatever "conscious" is, this seems
to be a reasonable comparison.  What do you see as the step after "adult" along the
same progression?

talk.religion.misc: many religions appear to aspire towards some form of "elevation
to godhood", "enlightenment", "dietification",...  What are the characteristics
of these advanced (by whatever means) entities?


--
James W. Meritt:  m23364@mwunix.mitre.org - or - jmeritt@mitre.org
The opinions above are mine.  If anyone else wants to share them, fine.
They may say so if they wish. The facts "belong" to noone and simply are.
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Re: entropy
Keywords: entropy
Date: 15 Dec 92 18:24:43 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <_5+rdaa@lynx.unm.edu>, bennett@deepthought.unm.edu (Paul Bennett) writes:
:
:     There is a very good point here about entropy: Is it against our
:focus and our discipline?
:
:     There may not be an easy answer. I am presently reading (sort-of) a
:text about the structure of the I-Ching. One of the ideas is that there
:is constant change, but in a predictable way. Focus? Chaos? Discipline?
:Entropy? I think these things balance. 

It may be that the I-Ching is more an analysis of the cyclic nature of
human existence and human nature. Nature has its cycles that are
repeated, as do humans.

:
:     (For the physicists: The above use of the word entropy is not a strict
:use of the thermodynamic definition of entropy. Recently a reply to a post
:of mine asked whether the definition of open and closed concided in
:the thermodynamic sense. I think not, as I had not supposed that there was
:a difference. Apparently there is. Could we have an elucidation of this
:please?)

A closed system, in the thermodynamics sense, is one in which no
energy can enter or leave the system. 

I think it would be appropriate to define the term entropy as you plan
to use it here. Terms in physics have very definite meanings tied in
with mathematics, and it is not clear to me that the same kind of
language can be used meaningfully to discuss people.

			-Lorenzo
-- 
                                        ******************************
Comedy = Tragedy + Distance             *  Lorenzo Farris            *
                 -Lenny Bruce           *  farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu *
                                        ******************************
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: mw@ki.fht-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz)
Subject:  New Electronic Journal - Psyche
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 16:24:32 GMT
Organization: Fachhochschule fuer Technik Mannheim
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

[I'm only forwarding this article; please send questions etc. to the
 address below -- Marc]

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Announcement: New Electronic Magazine 'Psyche'.

I am interested in starting up a electronic magazine
exploring broad issues relating to consciousness and the
mind. I hope to explore these issues in an interdisciplinary
way - using approaches and insights from psychology,
philosophy, anthropology, computer science and mathematics.

Examples of some of the general areas that Psyche will cover
are: the mind-body problem; altered-states-of-consciousness;
psychoactive drugs; shamanism; dream states; hypnosis;
artificial intelligence; meditative states; ecstatic
religious states; blindsight; language and mind.

In an attempt to offer a grounding in some of the central
themes of Psyche, major review articles of influential
ideas/books/movements will also be solicited. Examples of
what these might be are: John Searle's Chinese Room Problem;
Daniel Dennett's book 'Consciousness Explained'; Gordon
Wasson's theories regarding Soma; Roger Penrose's book 'The
Emperor's New Mind'.

While Psyche will not be peer-reviewed this does not mean
that it will become a haven for New Age/Lunatic Fringe ideas.
I have just completed a BSc Honours majoring in psychology,
and I am currently studying the way the brain codes the
position of objects. I would like to balance by skills with
others and so am particularly interested in getting in
contact with people with backgrounds in either computer
science, philosophy or anthropology to act as sub/co-editors.

While the date is obviously tentative I would like to get the
first issue of Psyche out by March 1993. It will be produced
in ASCII and hopefully postscript. As tends to be the nature
of electronic journals clarity, rather than length, will be a
critical factor in deciding which articles are accepted.

So if your interested in: helping, supplying copy,
subscribing (at least for the first edition), or simply
offering advice please contact directly me at the address
below. In your reply please let me know where you read about
Psyche.

Yours sincerely,
                         Patrick Wilken

x91007@phillip.edu.au
From: vincent@reg.triumf.ca (pete)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Re:  New Electronic Journal - Psyche
Date: 16 Dec 92 02:46:00 GMT
Organization: dept. of theophysics and cosmogyny
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
X-Posted-From: reg.triumf.ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <3g-r9r__@aix01.rz.fht-mannheim.de>, 
mw@ki.fht-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz) writes...
>[I'm only forwarding this article; please send questions etc. to the
> address below -- Marc]

>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Announcement: New Electronic Magazine 'Psyche'.

>I am interested in starting up a electronic magazine
>exploring broad issues relating to consciousness and the
>mind. I hope to explore these issues in an interdisciplinary
>way - using approaches and insights from psychology,
>philosophy, anthropology, computer science and mathematics.

Hey, what about physics, metaphysics, and biochemistry?

>Examples of some of the general areas that Psyche will cover
>are: the mind-body problem; altered-states-of-consciousness;
>psychoactive drugs; shamanism; dream states; hypnosis;
>artificial intelligence; meditative states; ecstatic
>religious states; blindsight; language and mind.

>Yours sincerely,
>                         Patrick Wilken

>x91007@phillip.edu.au
==========================================================================
We are definitely here as representatives of the     %    Pete Vincent
Amalgamated Union of Philosophers, Sages Lumin-      % Disclaimer: all I
aries and Other Professional Thinking Persons,       % know I learned from  
and we want this machine off, and we want it off now!% reading Usenet.
From: woodm@vax1.bham.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Re: Cognition and Literary Theory
Date: 16 Dec 92 15:05:05 GMT
Organization: University of Birmingham
NNTP-Posting-Host: vax1.bham.ac.uk

All you Knowledgeable People Out There:

HELP!!!

I am an English literature (?) student (??) luckily redeemed by
a critical interest in literary theory.

I want to know:
	Where can I find out about cognitive theory and interpretation on
		quite a high level (say, literary texts...)

Yours, almost despondent
Mxxx
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (salvador dali on x)
Subject: Re: when yer drunk
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 01:49:32 GMT

Somewhere in Cyberspace, akhanna@hamp.hampshire.edu said about 'when
yer drunk': 
|When  yer drunk yer friend that's aboy don't wanna be around you cause his
|dad was drunk a lot.  But my friends suddenly look very attractive.
|is it reslly right like freud or somebody's mother said about sex
|when you drink.  like it's lurking under the surface.
|boys girls.
|luv em
|bye late at nighty
|night nighty
|cause i'm not lying
|kelly
|i'm not kelly

If you *must* post to alt.consciousness while drug-induced, at least
have the drug by LSD, ketamine, or some other such substance so your
post would have *some* thindottedline semblenca of relevance to the
subject at hand.

--

    ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu	        FutureCulture:  In/f0rmation
    ahawks@mindvox.phantom.com		future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu
From: reginald.hirsch@yob.sccsi.com (Reginald Hirsch) 
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: NEC CDR-74 DRIVE ...
Date: 19 Dec 92 14:49:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Ye Olde Bailey BBS - Houston, TX - 713-520-1569
Reply-To: reginald.hirsch@yob.sccsi.com (Reginald Hirsch) 

TO: wcsintd7@alfred.carleton.ca
-> Hello all, I am currently purchasing a computer system and soon would
-> like to add a CD-ROM drive.  Is Adaptec 1542B a good choice for the
-> NEC cd-rom ?, or is there a better choice ?.  I plan to put a SCSI
-> hard disk, cd-rom and a tape drive off the controller.  If you have a
-> comment for me please e-mail, or post.  Thanx.
 I have same setup,1542b two scsi harddirves Nec CD 74 and a Wangtek dat
tap drive and it  works like a champ.
                                
----
Ye Olde Bailey BBS
Houston,Texas
Node 1: 1 713 520 1569
yob.sccsi.com
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: pother@george.cs.cofc.edu
Subject: Would like info on drive from Creative Labs
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 92 17:03:17 GMT

Hi

I was thinking of purchasing the cd-rom drive from Creative Labs since I
already own a soundblaster pro.  However, I saw a post from someone
saying not to purchase it, but no reasons were given.  From what I have
read and the tests that I have seen, it meets or exceeds MPC standards.
The only question I had was that the the multimedia kit said that the  
drive
could handle disks of up to 540 megs, but I thought that compact disks
could hold a little over 600 megs.  Please clarify if I am wrong on
this.
 
Can someone recommend a good cd-rom drive in the $300-400 price range?  Or 
at least tell me why not to get the one from CL.  Also if someone has
the drive from CL, let me know your opinions about it.  I am not looking
for a lot of extras with the drive, I just want a good quality drive in  
the
above price range.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Please post
a response or send email to:

                   daveyd@stono.cs.cofc.edu

Do not reply to this post as someone else is posting it for me.

Thanks in advance,

Alan Davey

Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: bam@Bang.UUCP (Bret A. Marquis)
Subject: Re: photo cd
Reply-To: bam%bang@trout.nosc.mil
Organization: Marquis Property Development Co., San Diego
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 05:18:37 GMT

Samuel R. Posten (thail@seas.gwu.edu) wrote:
: for everbody looking for a photo cd editor for the pc, I just got
: micrographix picture publisher, which has photo cd support built in.  I
: also have the photo cd drivers for my sound blaster drive, now I just need
: some disks!!!
: 

I've been pretty happy with Coreldraw 3.0. Actually the Corel Mosaic
program and the Corel Paint program that comes bundled with Coreldraw. 

I use an NEC CDR-84 on the SCSI port of a Proaudio Spectrum card and
have had no problems whatsoever reading Kodak Photo-CD's directly from
Corel Mosaic.

Bret Marquis
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: LMENDELS@WAYNEST1.BITNET (Loren Mendelsohn)
Subject: Re: CD-ROMs, Drives for sale
Reply-To: Loren Mendelsohn <LMENDELS@WAYNEST1.bitnet>
Organization: FUNET-NGW
Distribution: alt
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 19:31:35 GMT

On Sat, 19 Dec 1992 06:35:22 GMT That k-Rad Hacker! said:
>I am selling:

<remainder of message deleted>

It is my understanding that advertising through the nets is strictly forbidden.
If you have something substantive to contribute to a discussion, feel free
to do so, but I alread get enough advertising via snailmail -- I don't need
an email source as well.

Loren Mendelsohn
Wayne State University
Detroit, Michigan
From: grtorlba@sumax.seattleu.edu (George Torralba)
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: Re: PC Magazine review of cdrom drives
Date: 11 Dec 92 20:21:18 GMT
Organization: Seattle University

In article <1992Dec5.153233.10323@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> mccoy@krakatoa.uucp (Daniel J. McCoy) writes:
>
>The only thing I don't like about the drive is the physical manual eject
>button.  I would rather use software to eject the disk.
>

I'm just curious.  Do cdrom drives with a software eject capability also
allow you to to manually eject the disk/caddy just in case something screws
up in your configuration and you're not able to run the software?

George



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Internet: grtorlba@seattleu.edu            USMail: George R. Torralba
 Phone   : (206) 781-7622                           8728 Phinney Ave. N. #8
                                                    Seattle, WA  98103
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bruce@camb.com (Barton F. Bruce)
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: Re: Multisession on Sony 31A?
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:33:57 EDT
Organization: Cambridge Computer Associates, Inc.

In article <BzB9sn.MqF@cmcl2.nyu.edu>, reznick@acf3.nyu.edu (Daniel Reznick) writes:
> I have heard that Gateway is saying that the Sony 31A which they are 
> selling has Multisession Photo-CD capability.  Is this true?  Is this
> NOW, or later with some upgrade from Sony?  I would be interested in
> hearing any commments on this drive, as they sell it quite cheap ($225).

Sony sales woman said it IS MultiSession, and that only Gateway was selling
it initially because, though Sony distributors HAVE THE DRIVE, Sony's version
of the controller card was late in shipping. Sony's card will do 2 drives.
Gateway did their own card and it does ONE drive. Sony's card may be out by now.

The BIG BUMMER is that Gateway WON'T SELL YOU A DRIVE unless you happen to
have one of their computers! 

If I happened to have one of their computers this wouldn't bother me. Since
I don't it does. And probably means today was the last phonecall I'll ever make
to them. They can win my business with good service and good prices,
but try to twist my arm and goodbye...

Who knows of another controller for the CDU-31A? Is Sony's available yet?

Who is selling that drive other than Gateway or the wholesale-only distributors?

You must realize that the CDU-31A has no caddy and MUST be installed within 10
degrees of horizontal. It is not a fast drive, and was not intended to be.
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom