HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dchapman@well.sf.ca.us (Dave Chapman)
Subject: Re: Enabling Technology and the Origins of War
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 07:54:48 GMT

In article <C17upz.Dz0@spss.com> markrose@spss.com (Mark Rosenfelder) writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.010201.18512@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
>>The major primate researchers have documented that chimps kill chimps, 
>>gorillas kill gorillas.
>
>>It was a romantic myth popularized by Rousseau and incorporated into Marxism 
>>that economically primitive societies were more moral and less warlike than 
>>more economically developed ones.
>
>Very true.  Marvin Harris makes an interesting case that war arose long
>before "civilization", as a means of reducing population pressure-- not by
>killing off a few males, which would have no appreciable affect on population
>growth, but by requiring tribes to preferentially rear males for fighting.
>Among the Yanomamo, for instance, adolescent boys outnumber girls by as
>much as 148 to 100.  Their wars are not wars of conquest-- they make heavy
>use of backstabbing, for instance-- but they're enough to make war one of
>the leading causes of death among males.

Despite the well-known acts of homicide among the great apes (primatocide?),
the digs still support the idea that, at approximately the time of the
Bronze Age, the level of violence increased considerably.

I have had an unpleasant thought:  Perhaps the period from 15000 BP - 5000 BP
was unusual.  Perhaps the Ice Ages had reduced the human population so much
that violence in general and war in particular was profitless.  Once there
had been a few thousand years of warm weather, the population density was
restored, and things returned to normal.

The problem with this theory, of course, is that many things believed to
be completely original have been developed in the last 10,000 years,
such as the net.  ;-)

-dave



Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Subject: Re: Enabling Technology and the Origins of War
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:56:35 GMT

In article <3189@tymix.Tymnet.COM> kopfj@bert.Tymnet.COM writes:
>>   I also suspect that the wheel had more impact than the sword,
>>since it permitted large-scale nomadic cultures to arise.
>
>You *don't* need the wheel...I don't believe that it was used in the western hemisphere
>or polynesia.  Many "present day" nomads do not use the wheel (the ground is too rough
>and wheels work best on smooth ground / roads, to say nothing of bridges).
>
>My suspicion is that warefare arose as soon as one group had enough "goodies" that
>another group wasn't willing to work for.  "barbarians" attacked cities because of
>the wealth of the cities, not because they were in the way.

Warfare is known among other animals, as well.  There was probably
warfare between whatever groupings arose in our ancestors since the
before the first ones walked upright.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
From: markrose@spss.com (Mark Rosenfelder)
Subject: Re: Enabling Technology and the Origins of War
Organization: SPSS Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:15:34 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.010201.18512@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
>The major primate researchers have documented that chimps kill chimps, 
>gorillas kill gorillas.
>I haven't read the gibbon and orangatang literature.

Neither have I.  Have they written anything good?

>It was a romantic myth popularized by Rousseau and incorporated into Marxism 
>that economically primitive societies were more moral and less warlike than 
>more economically developed ones.

Very true.  Marvin Harris makes an interesting case that war arose long
before "civilization", as a means of reducing population pressure-- not by
killing off a few males, which would have no appreciable affect on population
growth, but by requiring tribes to preferentially rear males for fighting.
Among the Yanomamo, for instance, adolescent boys outnumber girls by as
much as 148 to 100.  Their wars are not wars of conquest-- they make heavy
use of backstabbing, for instance-- but they're enough to make war one of
the leading causes of death among males.
From: rspear@sookit.jpl.nasa.gov (Richard Spear)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: Metal working in Mesoamerica
Date: 27 Jan 1993 19:46:26 GMT
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
NNTP-Posting-Host: sookit.jpl.nasa.gov
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Timothy Pat Marshall (marshal@matt.ksu.ksu.edu) wrote:
: I was wondering anyone could suggest some recent sources, or any 
: sources for that matter on metal working in Mesoamerica.  I am
: doing research for a possible term paper and any assistance
: would be grealty appreciated.
:                                    TIM
: 
: 
i believe that the only metalworking done in the region was done
during the very late classic period in central mexico...the
precolumbian civilizations of mesoamerica were neolithic - any metal goods
found there were acquired from south american sources via trade.
--
richard
rspear@sookit.jpl.nasa.gov
all disclaimers apply
From: sizex@bnr.co.uk (Eric Barber)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: archaeology and the law
Date: 20 Jan 1993 09:47:48 GMT
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, London Road, Harlow, England.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.199.202.49

My wife has a semester project on archaeology and the law.
She is especially interested in the law on treasure trove.
Does anyone have any information on similarities between
British and other laws on treasure trove, or perhaps the
consequences of not having any? For "other" read Scandinavian,
Dutch, Irish, countries with legal systems evolved from the
British. Canadian would be especially interesting since the
law on treasure trove has been recently changed (from the
British model to something more suitable to Canadian
circumstances?).

please email me, and thanks.
Eric
   _    "just a Texan a long way from home"
 _| ~-. Eric Barber, BNR Europe Limited, London Road, Harlow, England CM17 9NA
 \, *_} AT&T/BT/etc. +44 279 403527/429531 x 3527, ESN (NT/BNR) 6 742 3527
   \(   DISCLAIMER:  Working at, not speaking for, BNR  | Eric.Barber@bnr.co.uk
From: orac@astro.ocis.temple.edu (Victoria D. McManus)
Newsgroups: sci.archaeology
Subject: Re: Minoan script
Date: 24 Jan 93 23:48:58 GMT
Organization: Temple University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

STG colleague (mariou@astro.astro.ufl.edu) wrote:

: Can someone tell me what is the difference between
: linear A and linear B?

: Also is there convincing evidence that human sacrifice
: was practiced by the Minoans?

: Thanks.

: M. Gottesman
Linear A is older than Linear B and has not as yet been 
deciphered.  Try a book on Greece or Crete in the Bronze 
Age-- there are lots of those.

No, there isn't.  ???

Victoria McManus
Temple University, Philadelphia PA
Newsgroups: sci.geo.fluids
From: mccalpin@perelandra.cms.udel.edu (John D. McCalpin)
Subject: Re: ftp/telnet sites of oceanographic data or software.
Organization: College of Marine Studies, U. Del.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:49:08 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.053256.8865@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au> pjb@elc4.ge.adfa.oz.au (Pat Bishop) writes:
>At one time I could telnet to the OCEAN Information Centre (site
>delocn.udel.edu).  This no longer seems to accept a login of INFO
>as it used to.  Can anyone clarify for me how to access this site,
>if indeed you still can?

Try again, it just worked for me....

If you have any problems in the future, the system administrator
is walt dabell (walt@delocn.udel.edu).
-- 
--
John D. McCalpin                        mccalpin@perelandra.cms.udel.edu
Assistant Professor                     mccalpin@brahms.udel.edu
College of Marine Studies, U. Del.      John.McCalpin@mvs.udel.edu
From: ghorne@fox.nstn.ns.ca (Garth Horne)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.fluids
Subject: Low grade heating cooling using earth energy or ground water
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:05:57 GMT
Organization: Environment Canada

I am seeking leads on any information/person/article or institution that 
knows anything about the about low grade heating/cooling from earth energy 
or ground water sources. 			
Newsgroups: sci.geo.fluids
From: roberts@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Michael Alan Roberts)
Subject: Maximum Entropy Spectral Analysis
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 01:40:03 GMT

Sorry if this is an FAQ, but I am trying to learn about the Burg
algorithm for Maximum Entropy Spectral Analysis, the Akaike Information
Criterion, and the Prony method of spectral analysis.

From my reading of some journal articles, it appears that geophysicists
have had a great need for these techniques, and might be expected to
know of them.

I am looking for a more basic description of the logic and mathematics
of MESA, AIC, and Prony. I would also be interested to know if anyone
has experience with any software that does any of this.

Many thanks in advance.

Michael Roberts
roberts@ucunix.san.uc.edu

Newsgroups: sci.geo.fluids
From: pjb@elc4.ge.adfa.oz.au (Pat Bishop)
Subject: ftp/telnet sites of oceanographic data or software.
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 05:32:56 GMT

At one time I could telnet to the OCEAN Information Centre (site
delocn.udel.edu).  This no longer seems to accept a login of INFO
as it used to.  Can anyone clarify for me how to access this site,
if indeed you still can?

Are there any other ftp/bbs type sites that contain data or software
open to the public domain?

Pat
________________________________________________________________________
pjb@elc4.ge.adfa.oz.au
Dept. of Geography & Oceanography, UNSW,
University College, ADFA,
Campbell, ACT, 2601
________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: sci.geo.fluids
From: walt@diusys.cms.udel.edu (Walt Dabell)
Subject: Re: ftp/telnet sites of oceanographic data or s
Reply-To: walt@diusys.cms.udel.edu
Organization: U of Delaware, College of Marine Studies / Lewes
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:54:28 GMT


In article 8865@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au, pjb@elc4.ge.adfa.oz.au (Pat Bishop) writes:
>At one time I could telnet to the OCEAN Information Centre (site
                     ^^^^^^
>delocn.udel.edu).  This no longer seems to accept a login of INFO
>as it used to.  Can anyone clarify for me how to access this site,
>if indeed you still can?
>
>Are there any other ftp/bbs type sites that contain data or software
>open to the public domain?
>
>Pat
>________________________________________________________________________
>pjb@elc4.ge.adfa.oz.au
>Dept. of Geography & Oceanography, UNSW,
>University College, ADFA,
>Campbell, ACT, 2601
>________________________________________________________________________


Were you TELNETing or FTPing? FTP is not allowed to OCEANIC as user INFO. You
will have to use anonymous ftp. Looking at my security log it appears as 
though you were trying to FTP in, not TELNET.

I TELNETed in from here and from bluehen.jcu.edu.au with no problem. We do
have a sometimes flakey net connection, but I didn't see one for 1800Z timeframe.

If that doesn't work for you, let me know and I will look into it some more.
---
         __________________________________________________________
         Walt Dabell  KD3GS (302)645-4225  walt@diusys.cms.udel.edu  
                  U of Delaware / College of Marine Studies
                      700 Pilottown Rd. Lewes, DE 19958

Newsgroups: sci.geo.fluids
From: meyers@lorenz.ocean.fsu.edu (Steve Meyers)
Subject: Re: Maximum Entropy Spectral Analysis
Organization: Florida State University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 15:38:58 GMT

In article <C18FAs.Cwn@ucunix.san.uc.edu> roberts@ucunix.san.uc.edu  
(Michael Alan Roberts) writes:
> Sorry if this is an FAQ, but I am trying to learn about the Burg
> algorithm for Maximum Entropy Spectral Analysis, the Akaike Information
> Criterion, and the Prony method of spectral analysis.
> 
> From my reading of some journal articles, it appears that geophysicists
> have had a great need for these techniques, and might be expected to
> know of them.
> 
> I am looking for a more basic description of the logic and mathematics
> of MESA, AIC, and Prony. I would also be interested to know if anyone
> has experience with any software that does any of this.
> 
> Many thanks in advance.


I'd be *very* interested in this as well. Please post responses.

Ditto thanks.

__________________________________________________________________

  Steven Meyers					
  MASIG B-174				| meyers@lorenz.ocean.fsu.edu
  Florida State University		| Tele:  904-644-1168
  Tallahassee, FL 32306-3041		| FAX: 904-644-9642

__________________________________________________________________

Newsgroups: sci.geo.fluids
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Maximum Entropy Spectral Analysis
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:59:27 GMT

In article <C18FAs.Cwn@ucunix.san.uc.edu> roberts@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Michael Alan Roberts) writes:
>Sorry if this is an FAQ, but I am trying to learn about the Burg
>algorithm for Maximum Entropy Spectral Analysis, the Akaike Information
>Criterion, and the Prony method of spectral analysis.
>
>From my reading of some journal articles, it appears that geophysicists
>have had a great need for these techniques, and might be expected to
>know of them.
>
>I am looking for a more basic description of the logic and mathematics
>of MESA, AIC, and Prony. I would also be interested to know if anyone
>has experience with any software that does any of this.

These algorithms make assumptions what happens to missing data because experiments usually collect
too little data to get accurate spectral resolution.
Astronomers use this stuff a lot.
Burg's thesis advisor, Claerbout, just published a book called Basic Earth Imaging in which he
discusses these issues from a geophysicists viewpoint.  Code is included.
From: lakerb@rcwusr.bp.com
Newsgroups: sci.geo.fluids
Subject: Re: Maximum Entropy Spectral Analysis
Date: 22 Jan 93 18:42:46 -0600
Organization: BP Research, Cleveland, OH (USA)

In article <1993Jan22.153858.26131@mailer.cc.fsu.edu>, meyers@lorenz.ocean.fsu.edu (Steve Meyers) writes:
> In article <C18FAs.Cwn@ucunix.san.uc.edu> roberts@ucunix.san.uc.edu  
> (Michael Alan Roberts) writes:
>> Sorry if this is an FAQ, but I am trying to learn about the Burg
>> algorithm for Maximum Entropy Spectral Analysis, the Akaike Information
>> Criterion, and the Prony method of spectral analysis.
>> 
>> From my reading of some journal articles, it appears that geophysicists
>> have had a great need for these techniques, and might be expected to
>> know of them.
>> 
>> I am looking for a more basic description of the logic and mathematics
>> of MESA, AIC, and Prony. I would also be interested to know if anyone
>> has experience with any software that does any of this.
>> 
>> Many thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> I'd be *very* interested in this as well. Please post responses.
> 
> Ditto thanks.
> 

A very readable collection of papers is in:

Maximum Entropy in Action
Brian Buck and Vincent A. Macaulay, ed.
Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1991
ISBN 0-19-853963-0 (pbk)
 
Was $35 at a Palo Alto bookstore.

Rob Lake
BP Research
lake@rcwcl1.dnet.bp.com
From: pvanmeur@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Pim van Meurs)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.fluids
Subject: Re: Maximum Entropy Spectral Analysis
Date: 24 Jan 93 21:19:23 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego


 Sorry if this is an FAQ, but I am trying to learn about the Burg
 algorithm for Maximum Entropy Spectral Analysis, the Akaike Information
 Criterion, and the Prony method of spectral analysis.
 

Marple, Digital spectral analysis with applications, Prentice Hall
Signal Processing Series. $65.00, 1987. Is a very readable book with
most methods explained and accompagnied by listings of programs and
an IBM disk.
Very good book.

Pim van Meurs
-- 
Pim van Meurs  UC San Diego Scripps Institution of Oceanography
Mail Code A-030  	 UUCP : ...!ucsd!ssurf.ucsd.edu!VANMEURS
UCSD La Jolla  CA 92093  ARPA : VANMEURS@ssurf.ucsd.edu
(619)-458 9729 Home	 Bitnet : VANMEURS%ssurf.ucsd.edu@sdsc
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
From: lowell@locus.com (Lowell Morrison)
Subject: Re: HELP Wanted!
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 21:49:00 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.222549.20869@nntpserver.chevron.com> jviv@usmi01.midland.chevron.com (John Viveiros) writes:
>In article <1993Jan20.163741.254480@locus.com> lowell@locus.com (Lowell Morrison) writes:
>>In article <davidlai.727494143@unixg.ubc.ca> davidlai@unixg.ubc.ca (David TW Lai) writes:
>>>	I'm currently puzzling around the following questions and I hope
>>>some netters would be able to help me on these questions:
>
>>>(2) A rock specimen contains precisely ten times less potassium-40 than
>>>its radioactive decay product (half-life 1.3 billion years) argon-40.
>>>How old is this rock and where did it come from?
>>
>4.3 Billion (meteorite?) [about three half lives - 1/8th the original]
>I know of no earth rocks of this age (could it be moon rocks).

Of course that assumes a "closed system" for radio active decay products.
As we know this is violated all the time.  Since the age of the earth
is some what older than that (4.5-6.5 billion depending on who you
listen to) it could be part of an archean complex (Vorvort Ring Complex,
or an Anorthosite Complex) of Archean age, or even a Mesozoic Granite with
a leaky system <grin>..
>
>>>(3) Give four reasons, in order of importance, why the Earth appears
>>>to have fewer huge impact scars than the Moon.
>>>
>>1)Erosion
>>2)Tectonism
>>3)atmospheric sheilding
>>4)recognition, Impact craters such as the Riss in Germany, the Vorvort
>>ring in South Africa were long attributed to other factors, and the
>>Sudburry crater was mined for nickel for years, and not recognised as
>>a crater (being the northern part of lake superior didn't help).
>>
>Atmospheric shielding doesn't stop larger (1 cubic inch or so was what I
>learned) particles.
>
Hmm, my books say 2 cubic inches, but that is minor.  And that require
a straight aproch, the Atmosphere can cause larger particles to 
Skip at low angles that might other wise colide.  And since the Ocean
is considered part of the atmosphere, it can handle even larger particles.

Even those larger particles that do make it through often break up and thus
make smaller more erodable craters that are simply not recognised for what
they really are.  This of course does not happen in the absense of the 
atmosphere, and that multi ton stome hits as a single mass rather than 
hundred pof small (no huge crater) impacts.

Of course, there are a number of further arguments made, but to first
approximations, Erosion, Tectonism, Sheilding and Recognition are four
of the largest.  And I had hopped that these hints might allow the
requester to do further research on his own, and perhaps find other
references and complete his assignment.

--Uncle Wolf
MS-Geology, 1981



Silly "Vi" Editor, Yech.
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
From: giese@k9.dev.cdx.mot.com (Bruce Giese)
Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE
Followup-To: talk.bizzare
Summary: WHERE DO these people COME FROM
Keywords: astral travel agents
Organization: Motorola Codex, Canton, Massachusetts
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:30:46 GMT

>     (3) It is possible for INDIVIDUALS to PERSONALLY explore the Universe,
>including our Solar System, using forms of "SOUL TRAVEL".  Some of these forms
>are also known as "out-of-body travel" and "Astral projection".  [This is
>DANGEROUS without the protection of a Perfect Living Master as described
>below.]
>          

  Actually it is WELL KNOWN that INDIVIDUALS can also make use of a
SOUL TRAVEL AGENT, which is actually MUCH LESS expensive!!!  Make sure
to arrive at the Astral Airport AT LEAST 2 hours before departure for
flights OUTSIDE THE SOLAR system.
From: williams@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Tom Williams)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
Subject: Re: Seismic Data
Date: 26 Jan 1993 21:32:32 GMT
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
NNTP-Posting-Host: pangea.stanford.edu

In article <1993Jan26.165146.10004@news.unige.ch> jordi@scsun.unige.ch writes:
>In article <C1GvA6.6wq@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v103pye8@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (BRUCE WAPPMAN) writes:
>|> I would like to know how seismic data is stored, the format and posible
>|> conversions, eg. to use on a PC or SUN system. Also are there are any FTP 
>|> sites to get raw or processed seismic data? I am doing a independent study
>|> and would like to learn how to interpretate seismic profiles, and would
>|> like to know if it is possible to obtain it from annonymous FTP. Are there
>|> any PD or Shareware programs that I could use to process the data and 
>|> examine by using computers (UNIX or IBM)?  
>|> 
>|> Thank You
>|> 
>|> Bruce Wappman
>
>A popular seismic data encoding is SUDS (for Seismic Unified Data System).


  WHOA.  Y'all are talking about two different kinds of seismic data.
Most of the discussion here recently about 'seismic' data has to do
with measurements of earthquakes.

  jordi@scsun was wondering about access to reflection seismograms
I believe, since he said 'seismic profiles'.  In answer to his question
about public access to data, inferring that he means reflection seismograms,
I'd say that because it costs SO MUCH to acquire, it's generally not
the type of thing that's given away by public access, it's given
away by the individual acquiring agency upon specific request if at
all.  Second, if we're NOT talking about earthquakes, but rather reflection
seismology, then the data storage requirements in terms of sheer volume
make it unlikely that any meaningful amount of data would be accessible
by FTP.  Again, ask those who have it.

 This same confusion cropped up in earlier discussions in case some
are still unaware.



--
Tom Williams                       williams@pangea.stanford.edu
Department of Geology				 
Stanford University School of Earth Sciences
Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
From: cnr12@cus.cam.ac.uk (C.N. Richardson)
Subject: Global geoid data
Keywords: gravity
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:07:28 GMT

Does anyone know where I can find gravity data on a reasonable resolution, say 10km x 10km ?
Are there any data sets available on the internet ?

Chris Richardson 

Newsgroups: sci.geo.geology
From: chattend@csar.encore.com (Charlie Hattendorf)
Subject: Ground Penetrating Radar
Keywords: GPR
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:16:13 GMT

Greetings!
	I am looking for information on a device known as "Ground
Penetrating Radar" seen being used on a recent The Learning Channel
show on cable. The show was entitled "Archeology" and demonstrated
a device developed by an unknown institution's geology department
utilizing a high-frequency radar to identify sub-surface composition.
The application allowed the archeologists to dig around, and not
disturb, an indian burial site in Utah. Any information on this device
would be greatly appreciated!

*    Charlie Hattendorf       Realtime Computer support -       /|            *
* Technical Representative         While you wait!             /-|MIGA works. *
*  619-939-9252 NWC/ECRD    "Build a system any fool can use, and only a fool *
* internet: chattend@encore.com    would want to use it" Murphy's corollaries *