From: khan@ces.cwru.edu (Mansoor Khan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: re: Pakistan is lilbit different from Israel
Date: 24 Dec 1992 22:38:11 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: king.ces.cwru.edu

> Stuff Deleted
>> 
>> >The creation of the Jewish state of Israel solely on the basis of religion
>> >which resulted in the mass expulsion of Arabs and non-jews is derided by the
>> >entire muslim world and possibly by a large number of Pakistanis; but I've
>never
>> >understood how the creation of the muslim state of Pakistan was justified in
>the
>> >same breadth by the same people.
>> 
>> >--Javed.
> 
>> 	Pakistan and India were Created by bisecting pre-1947 India.
>> 	People who lived in post-47 India were living there for centuies.
>> 	Similarly people who lived in Pakistan lived there for Centuries.
>> 	i.e. Baluchis, Panjabis, Sindhis, Bengalis, and Pathans. Yes, huge
>> 	trans-border migration took place, but all of the people who now live
>> 	in Pakistan and India,  lived in pre 47 India for thousands of years.
>> 	Israel on the other hand was created for bringing people who
>> 	did not belong to Palestine. In other words, Jews who live in
>> 	todays Israel, most of them are of non Palestinian ancestary.
>> 	i.e. people of pre 1948 Palestine <> people of Jordan + People of
>> 					     Israel + People of West Bank
>> 						      of river Jordan.
>> 
>> 	but people of pre 1947 India = people of modern Pakistan 
>> 				     + people of modern India.
>>   

>I'm not disputing the fact that the people of India and Pakistan belonged to
>pre-partition India. I am disputing the ideology that resulted in the creation
>of these religion inspired countries. 
	Hey dude, You may not like Pakistan, and that is OK.	Pakistan
	was not darling of All Indian Muslims. Neither it is today.
	But please dont start playing with words. Pakistan has nothing
	in common with Israel. Please refer to Mustafa Syed
	article under the same title as this posting. He has made a very
	strong point. Pakistan was supported by Indian Muslims( pre-47)
	in 1946 elections. i.e. majority of Indian Muslims(pre 1947 minus
	princely staes eg. Kashmir, hyderabad, bhopal etc.) supported
	creation of Pakistan. Remember, not all muslims wanted Paksitan.
	A higher percentage of muslims in what became paksitan did not
	support Pakistan. eg. Panjab. Lack of education among Panjabi
	Muslims and strong zamindar control over them were two main
	reasons that Panjabi Musalmans did not realize advantages of
	Pakistan. You may very well argue that Pakistan had no advantage
	for UP Muslims or MP( eg. Bhopal) muslims either. It is a historical
	debate. I personally agree that Urdu Speaking Muslims have 
	screwed themselves for ever by supporting Pakistan. Those of
	them who were able to make it Pakistan have been systematically
	eliminated and now officially are second grade citizens of Pakistan.
	Widespread jehalat in Pakistan at the time of its creation has
	been a major cause in lack of promotion of democratic ideals
	which Indian Muslims had expected. The areas which became Pakistan
	were the most backward in pre-47 India. East Bengal was a big
	slum. West Pakistan had no industry, no education, no commerce,
	nothing. Only thing it had was army. And we all know the result.
	Those Urdu speaking Muslims who were left in India, are not
	in good shape either. Forget the ideal desired by Indian Constitution.
	Muslims generally, and Urdu speaking Muslims especially, have 
	pretty tough time for them in future( in India).
	Muslim cultural centers were left in post-47 India.
	Dehli, Lucknow, Hyderabad, Bhopal none of them became part of
	Pakistan. Begum Shaista Ikramullah ( sister of Hussain Shaheed
	Suhrawardy, an ex. P.M. of Pakistan) once met Jinnah right after
	the independence in Karachi. When he asked her how did she like
	in her new country, she said ".... but there is no Dehli,
	no Calcutta, and no Aligarh". To which he replied, may be one day
	we will be able to have places better than that in Pakistan.
	Well, people like Ayub Khan, Zardari, Navab Kalabagh, Navaz Sharif,
	and Benazir are the last people on the face of this earth who
	know any thing about education promotion, culture, tehzib etc.
	But the fact remains that Pakistan is different from Israel.
	It was not created the way Israel was created.
>
>In the case of Israel, the majority of the Jews around the world are Semites,
>like the Arabs and descendents of the Jewish tribes of the ancient biblical land
>comprising present day Israel, who were exiled from their lands.
>
>My argument is that if religion is the sole justification for creating Pakistan,
>then the creation of Israel also cannot be faulted on that token.
>
>Before people get worked up, I must make it clear that I support the claims
>of the Palestinians in their fight against Israel because the foundation of
>the Israeli state is based on morally unacceptable and illegal premises.
>
>But I see the same parallels, though not of the same magnitude, in the creation
>of Pakistan.
	Read the stuff I wrote above.
>

>--Javed.

Mansoor Khan
Cleveland.