HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: What a pitty! (was:Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates)
Organization: Univerity of Oslo, Semitics dep.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:19:02 GMT

What a pity!

the discussion on the soveriegnty of Lebanon becomes a discussion on how many
votes a certain person got or which list was better than the other.

It is true that there were very many important and crusial points that were
made, but we seem to loose sight of the REAL problem:

   Why elections in Lebanon?
   Why now?
   Who wants them?
   What will they lead to?
   Now that the turn-out was low what will happen?
   How long will Lebanon survive?
  etc. etc.


How interesting to read Hani Abi Nassif, as if he lives in another planet.

I get depresed, when I see that no matter what poeple say, there is someone,
who will still stick to age old arguments and rhetoric.


What do we wat with our country?
do we want to have a counrty?
What kind of country do we want?
To which counrty do we want to unite?

please, let us stop playing arround as if we were the wisest creatures on
earth. Note that I said WE.

There are important issues at stake, and if we are to be better than he rotten
politicans we had, we should learn to deal with the important issues and not
just speak for the sake of speaking!

I would like to see a real debate on elections in Lebanon.

elie wardini
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: shamma@ccu.umanitoba.ca ()
Subject: Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 21:08:59 GMT






	Commenting on a UPI news report I asked the following:

>
>       Is it true that Bahiya Hariri offered $2000.00 for each
>       person that votes in her favor , and that she paid for 
>       round trip plane tickets for some Lebanese in Saudi Arabia
>       to vote for her as well ? 
>
-----
 H. Harmanani (haidar@alpha.ces.cwru.edu) answered :

>>Is this supposed to be a joke or something? I wonder from where all
>>these news come from.  I was in Lebanon during the elections weeks and
>>spent a week or so in the South.  I did not hear that she was paying.

	No this is not a joke ! I was simply checking on some
	news I got from a person who was in Lebanon. 
	
	I did not claim that this was a correct news.

-----

 Rached Zantout answered :




>>$2000 for a vote for Bahiya Hariri, Walid your sources are even more generous
>>than the french media which put an upper limit on the vote in Beirut at $200.


	As I said I was only checking, Having lived in Lebanon
	for 23 years, and seeing how things work in Lebanon
	this was a real possibility!!.


>>Seriously now:
--------------

>>I don't know why people keep choosing the wrong persons to proove that the
>>elections were rigged.

	I don't think that you can say that these election were
	perfect either, and represented what the people there really
	want.

>>First they say that Salim El Hoss got that much votes by rigging, although Dr.
>>Hoss is the most popular politician (if any other is liked) in Beirut (Well at
>>least what was WEST BEIRUT).

	In fact I think that Salim El Hoss is the only credible
	candidate of the whole mix.

>>Now comes the turn of Ms. Hariri. Well let's analyze it:
>>................

>>4. Hariri (Mr and Ms) have done many good things for Lebanon, the south and
>>especially Sidon. Mr. Rafik Hariri has educated a good number of youth in
>>Lebanon, has helped in virtually every effort for rebuilding the country,
>>distributed aid to ALL LEBANEESE regardless of race, religion or sex. 
	
>>Looking at all the above no wonder Ms. Hariri got an overwhelming amount 
>>of votes.


	I am aware what R. Hariri done in Lebanon, and I am
	not saying that his sister is not worth being elected.


>>Walid, do you beleive every rumour and go about spreading it ?
>>Because, if you do then here is a BIG one:......,:-)}

	I did not say that I beleive this news/rumour or not
	I was simply checking it. May be my wording of my
	question did not show my intention clearly.


---------

A. Fardoun wrote :

...........

>>I hope next time that you find a better rumor.


--------

	Ya Allah how things can go wrong in this news group.


 Wa Assalamu Alikum,


 Walid (Shamma)
 -----
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: rached@sample.eng.ohio-state.edu (Rached Zantout)
Subject: Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 20:35:39 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.135102.10859@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, shamma@ccu.umanitoba.ca () writes:
> 
> 	Is it true that Bahiya Hariri offered $2000.00 for each
> 	person that votes in her favor , and that she paid for 
> 	round trip plane tickets for some Lebanese in Saudi Arabia
> 	to vote for her as well ? 
> 
> 
>  Walid
>  -----


Man, Walid why didn't you say so before ?
Man, I missed that a roundtrip plane ticket ? shoot, what a bad luck.
Walid, whenever you have such good deals for us, please do not wait so long to
share them, it is too late to benefit now.

$2000 for a vote for Bahiya Hariri, Walid your sources are even more generous
than the french media which put an upper limit on the vote in Beirut at $200.

Seriously now:
--------------

I don't know why people keep choosing the wrong persons to proove that the
elections were rigged.
First they say that Salim El Hoss got that much votes by rigging, although Dr.
Hoss is the most popular politician (if any other is liked) in Beirut (Well at
least what was WEST BEIRUT).
Now comes the turn of Ms. Hariri. Well let's analyze it:

1. She is running on Mr. Berri's list. Which means that all supporters of Amal
(at least most of them) will vote for her.

2. Mr. Berri had an alliance with Hizbollah and he had them on his list. Which
means that the list of Mr. Berri will be supported by all Shia'.

3. Mr. Saad was also on that list, this will make a good part of the Sunni's in
the south vote for Mr. Berri's list.

4. Hariri (Mr and Ms) have done many good things for Lebanon, the south and
especially Sidon. Mr. Rafik Hariri has educated a good number of youth in
Lebanon, has helped in virtually every effort for rebuilding the country,
distributed aid to ALL LEBANEESE regardless of race, religion or sex. 

Looking at all the above no wonder Ms. Hariri got an overwhelming amount of votes.

Walid, do you beleive every rumour and go about spreading it ?
Because, if you do then here is a BIG one:

Our neighbor still thinks that Bashir Gemayel is alive (no not like Elvis) and
that the americans are preparing him to return as a saint !!!!!!!

rached
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: soufi@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled S. Soufi)
Subject: Re: What a pitty! (was:Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates)
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 21:08:11 GMT

eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:

>What a pity!

>the discussion on the soveriegnty of Lebanon becomes a discussion on how many
>votes a certain person got or which list was better than the other.

>It is true that there were very many important and crusial points that were
>made, but we seem to loose sight of the REAL problem:

>   Why elections in Lebanon?

Because the Lebanese want to preserve their country and elections
would allow everybody to help do just that.

>   Why now?

Because there is never a bad time for a democratic process to take
place.

>   Who wants them?

Any democracy-loving person.

>   What will they lead to?

Hopefully a better Lebanon than the one with war and blood or the
pre-war one.

>   Now that the turn-out was low what will happen?

The turn-out was okay.  Your personal outlook on the elections was
low.  I think you got the two mixed up.

>   How long will Lebanon survive?

Much much longer than Phoenicia Inshalla.

>  etc. etc.

>How interesting to read Hani Abi Nassif, as if he lives in another planet.

I think you are right Elie, Hani does live on a different planet than
yours!  It is called Earth.  You should visit us once in a while.

>I get depresed, when I see that no matter what poeple say, there is someone,
       ^^^^^^^^
You're right.

>who will still stick to age old arguments and rhetoric.

How old?  I bet you are not refering to the 2500 years old Phoenician
argument, are you?

>What do we wat with our country?

All the goodies you can think of.

>do we want to have a counrty?

I personally don't know what a "counrty" is but if it is good and
free, then put me down for one.

>What kind of country do we want?

This I'd better answer if you'd give me a set of choices of the kind
of countries there are. I usually make good selections, just ask the
people at Baskin Robins.

>To which counrty do we want to unite?

If a "counrty" could/should unite with another "counrty" then I'd like
my "counrty" to unite with the best other "counrty" in the world man.

[...]

>elie wardini

-- 
+-----------Khaled Soufi-------------+--------------------------+
|   Department of Computer Science   | email: soufi@cs.uiuc.edu |
| U. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign | phone: (217)244-2274 (W) |
+------------------------------------+--------------------------+
From: ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates
Date: 12 Sep 92 18:47:58 GMT
Organization: University of Strathclyde

In article <BuFr3B.BwK@ecf.toronto.edu> hyper@ecf.toronto.edu (Hypersonic CFD Combust Diag) writes:
>In article <1992Sep11.145714.7290@njitgw.njit.edu> elie@sensors.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep11.110437.13857@ccsun.strath.ac.uk> ccav38@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("I.Ballouz") writes:
>>>
>>>I think Ayman meant that the people can trust Ms Hariri ( not trying to repay
>>>her by electing her ) since herself and her brother have done very much for
>>>the country out of good intention ( a character a bit rare in some of our
>>>politicians ).
>>>However in addition to be helpful and trustworthy, a member of parliament
>>>should have some essential political skills. Ms Hariri is best known for her
>B
>>>humanitarian stands more than for her policies.
>>>We hope, as a polician, she is as good as the kind person we all know.
>>
>>I am only curious why a nice and humanitarian person could not find better
>>running mates :-)
>>
>>>I. Ballouz
>>
>>Regards, Elie.
>>
>
>
>Now, That's what we call Politics....Elie!! :)....and this goes to fulfill
                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>mr Ballouz's wish of her being a good politician :).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>

I don't believe that her running mates are the worst in our political arena,
athough I don't support them. Assuming, for argument's sake, they are not as 
good as she is, I am hoping they will improve being in such a good company.

>Regards,


>
>Samir.

Ibrahim.
-- 
*******************************************************************************
* IBRAHIM BALLOUZ            **           DEPARTMENT OF ARCHITECTURE          *
* ccav38@uk.ac.strath.ccsun  **  STRATHCLYDE UNIVERSITY GLASGOW SCOTLAND U.K. *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: 9999sc01@uhdvx3.dt.uh.edu (Alexandre Khalil)
Subject: Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41A   
Organization: University of Houston-Downtown
X-Lunar-Date: 0 days, 20 hours, 54 minutes since the full moon
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:09:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.000951.23122@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, soufi@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled S. Soufi) writes...
>9999sc01@uhdvx3.dt.uh.edu (Alexandre Khalil) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep11.233319.31240@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, soufi@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled S. Soufi) writes...
> 
>[...]
> 
>Let me also answer your other post briefly here.  The Hariris are not
>a feudal political family as you were trying to hint there.  Mr. Rafik
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Hariri came into the picture late in the Civil War and was never a
>member of the Lebanese political apparatus (I presume you are aware of
>that).  Now, If Mrs. Hariri's political life was triggered by the fine
>reputation of her brother's foundation and her association with it,
>then you should feel all the more confident in her and her emergence
>as a young politician with honorable links to good deeds.  Besides,
>since when did we have feudal political leaders who would allow their
>women to share the glory in politics?

The Hariris are not yet a feudal family and we certainly hope that they will
remain a respectable family and never become a za'ameh/iqTa'yeh.

Concerning women in parliament, we will probably all agree that we have far too
few of them.

Regards

>+-----------Khaled Soufi-------------+--------------------------+
>|   Department of Computer Science   | email: soufi@cs.uiuc.edu |
>| U. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign | phone: (217)244-2274 (W) |
>+------------------------------------+--------------------------+

alex khalil   alex@dt.uh.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: fardoun_a@cubldr.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 23:14:02 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.200739.22087@ctr.columbia.edu>, sion@apache.ctr.columbia.edu (Boudi Sahyoun) writes:
> In article <1992Sep10.102905.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> fardoun_a@cubldr.colorado.edu writes:
> 
>> Since the largest percentage of population that voted was in the south about
>>75% according to official numbers which is about 200,000 votes that means that
>>Mrs. Hariri had to pay 200 million dollars or 0.2 billion and I know and every
> 
> Assuming that all 200,000 people could and did vote for her; and that's a 
> wrong assumption :-)
I am not sure what she got however according to news from lebanon some 
candidates got well above 100,000 votes. so, for sure she got more.
> 
>>body knows that the lebanese parliment is not worth it.  However it is natural
>>for people to vote for her as a show of appreciation for what her brother Mr.
>>Hariri has done for the whole lebanon and all lebanese when lebanon needed it
> [...]
> 
> Do you really think that is a good enough reason to vote for her?
> I am very happy to see a woman as a member of parliament, I am just concerned
> about the reasons why people voted for her.
> 
No question this is a good point; however taking into account that people 
are sick of politicians and their promises, people feel better when they 
vote for her rather others.

> regards,
> 
> Boudi

A. Fardoun
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: hani@pepper.engin.umich.edu (Hani Abinassif)
Subject: Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 12:26:52 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: hani@pepper.engin.umich.edu



As predicted, the elections took place and the voice of the
people of Lebanon echoed in all its regions.  It is one brick
added to the burrial site of the feudalist system.  

I am still stunned at the political suicide committed by the
uncompromising "Poltical Maronite" institution.  The fact that
Sfeir influenced Maronite candidates to withdrew their 
nominations, shows that religieous fundamentalism is not limited 
to Hizballah only.  

In Beirut, the nationalists spearheaded by Dr. Hoss swept all
the traditional Trabeesh and Feudalists...

As far as the south, the message was clear:  All united against
the Israeli occupation. 

To those who left themsleves out of the process, we hope they
cross the sidelines, if not now, maybe in four years, before 
it is too late.

-Hani
-- 
 ____    ____ "These views are explicitly/implicitly
|    \  /    | mine...and not that of U-M or CAEN",   
 | |\ \/ /| |  University of Michigan            | Hani_Nassif@um.cc.umich.edu
|__ | \/ |___| Computer Aided Engineering Network| hani@engin.umich.edu
From: elie@sensors.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Aoun might join the goverment
Date: 12 Sep 92 23:36:48 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Sep12.134631.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> fardoun_a@cubldr.colorado.edu writes:
>I have heard that Aoun agreed to join the new goverment which should be ready
>soon after the elections. Does anybody know anything about that? or if he has
>any conditions? I also heard that after this news and other news that the 
>opponents for the elections might reconsider their position the value of the 
>dollar fell by about 3%!!!
>
>   A. Fardoun

I also heard such rumours... But here's what Aoun said:
(al-Nahar (Sept 8) from CLAO:)

"The Syrian controlled elections are illegal and have no representative value
due to the large boycott. Therefore the new parliament lacks the 
legitimacy to legislate or to sign agreements in the name of the 
Lebanese people. What is needed is the total change of the present
corrupt regime which came to power as a result of a military invasion.
Here I would like to stress the role of the US which is responsible for 
the corrupt regime and the occupation of Lebanon. The US cannot be the symbol
of the new World Order and at the same time declare that Lebanon is none
hf its concerns."

General Aoun added: "civil disobediance is being 'under consideration'
and that his supporters would take part in a National salvation
government only after a timetable for the withdrawal of all foreign
armies is drafted."

The General also said: "The Taef agreement is the worst agreement 
seen in Lebanon. What right does Syria have to link withdrawal
of its forces to internal Lebanese matters. I, as a Lebanese, I want
to have an agreement on internal matters with the Lebanese, and not
the Syrians. I, and other Lebanese, will discuss with the Syrians
only matters affecting the relations between both our countries.
Syria should stop its deceptive hypocrisy and spell out exactly 
what it wants from Lebanon."

The General added: "I am open to all political currents in Lebanon
opposing the elections except the current leaderships of the 
Kataeb and the Lebanese Forces."

Regards, Elie.

--

                                 ________
________________________________/--------\______________________________________
From: eliedw@ulrik.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Jesse Helms (AOUN and the south)
Date: 7 Sep 92 08:33:55 GMT
Organization: Univerity of Oslo, Semitics dep.

In article <1992Sep6.104031.1@cubldr.colorado.edu>
fardoun_a@cubldr.colorado.edu writes:


>A global approach for lebanon needs a global leader who is elected by Lebanese
without any pressure from any country. I agree that this is impossible with the
present situation (the Israeli occupation and the syrian presence in lebanon)
however, Aoun was not that kind of global leader neither any of the lebanese
presidents that we have seen. 
>



you forgot one adjective: The Syrian BROTHERLY presence in Lebanon, helping to
protect the Lebanese gainst themselves.

May God grant them according to their goodness.


You claim Aoun is not so enthousiastic about getting the Israelis out of
Lebanon.

Contrary to what you say, I myself have heard him many times speak out as
harshly against the Israely occupation of the Lebanon.

Nevertheless, it is not so important what Aoun says, as much as what we all do
is important.

What do you want and what do I want? These are the real questions.


I hope that you too want to get rid of the Syrian occupation as much as you
want others to be enthousiastic about ridding Lebanon! from the Israeli
occupation!


elie wardini
From: haidar@ces.cwru.edu (H. Harmanani)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates
Date: 9 Sep 1992 19:06:31 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science/CWRU
NNTP-Posting-Host: mama.ces.cwru.edu

In article <1992Sep9.135102.10859@ccu.umanitoba.ca> shamma@ccu.umanitoba.ca () writes:
>
>	Is it true that Bahiya Hariri offered $2000.00 for each
>	person that votes in her favor , and that she paid for 
>	round trip plane tickets for some Lebanese in Saudi Arabia
>	to vote for her as well ? 

Is this supposed to be a joke or something? I wonder from where all
these news come from.  I was in Lebanon during the elections weeks and
spent a week or so in the South.  I did not hear that she was paying.
Frankly, my family would have made around $ 12000 in one day if it
were the case.  Oh well, I can dream about it :)))))))

> Walid

-- 
H. Harmanani (haidar@alpha.ces.cwru.edu)
Dept. of Computer Engineering
Crawford Hall 215C
Case Western Reserve U
From: elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Elections end with sweeping victory for pro-Syrian candidates
Date: 15 Sep 92 00:08:32 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <x0s-xc_@engin.umich.edu>, hani@pepper.engin.umich.edu (Hani Abinassif) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> As predicted, the elections took place and the voice of the
|> people of Lebanon echoed in all its regions.  It is one brick
|> added to the burrial site of the feudalist system.  

From feudalists to militias in power is not very exciting nor too 
appealing.

|> I am still stunned at the political suicide committed by the
|> uncompromising "Poltical Maronite" institution.  The fact that
|> Sfeir influenced Maronite candidates to withdrew their 
|> nominations, shows that religieous fundamentalism is not limited 
|> to Hizballah only.  

Well, had the Syrians agreed to withdraw, maybe it would have been easier 
to join.
Besides, it is not only the Maronites who boycotted. 

|> In Beirut, the nationalists spearheaded by Dr. Hoss swept all
|> the traditional Trabeesh and Feudalists...

Well, we'll wait and see the performance. His previous performance was
pretty wimpy.

|> As far as the south, the message was clear:  All united against
|> the Israeli occupation. 

No one argues with you. But you may with to strike Hafez-boy
off your list. Seems he's got some plans. :-)

|> To those who left themsleves out of the process, we hope they
|> cross the sidelines, if not now, maybe in four years, before 
|> it is too late.

Hmmm... This seems to be some double standard. Had the other 
"sideline" boycotted, we'd be hearing a different tune. 
I would listen very carefully to those in the Hrawi surroundings
who raised concern about the dismal voter turnout, not to mention 
serious irregularities. And you are also assuming that this govt
is viable...