HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chang@assb01
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Shao Lin revisited
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:39:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: adelphi-.9208251739.AA03360
Reply-To: @adelphi-msc.army.mil:chang@assb01

dear Marilyn sez:

> Wu-shu is a lot flashier than tradition kung-fu styles and it
> is commonly considered dance (a very offensive categorization)
> or not even a martial art.  But for all of those critics of

        True, and it looks really cool.

> wu-shu; wu-shu comes from a rich heritage of Chinese martial arts.

        Undoubtably.

        But unfortunately wushu as known by the western world
(explanation that wushu (the chinese words) should apply to all
chinese martial arts deleted) is/was the "approved" martial arts
to be done.  Having just gotten back from China, with btw is actually
a pretty nice place nowadays, I noticed that the word _reformed_ is
used a lot for things in a different form than it used to be.
I'm sure that wushu is the reformed version of chinese martial arts,
read: the state approved version.  I mean, effective fighting arts
in the hands of the people would not look good in the eyes of the
old Chinese regime, but martial arts has been in the Chinese culture
so long, you just couldn't get rid of it either.

        Anyways, China is changing country, tho' those people who 
haven't been there are often only familiar with the Tiananmen square
incident and base their entire opinions of the place on that and what
they think communist countries are like, but enought political diatribe.
       
        The point is I think China (or some chinese folk somewhere in
the gov't) realized their mistake in regards to "China's national
treasures" (trademark PRC) and there is martial arts going on over there
that isn't wushu (brings to mind me watching a guy in the kitchen 
staff at Xi'an JiaoTong University's guest host practising something
that looked a lot like kickboxing in the mornings).

> Like all Chinese martial arts which was handed down through the
> generations, there is room for some variation from its original state
> and different types of interpretation.

        I believe that what we know as wushu was meditated construction
rather than an evolution (the reformed m.a. concept).  But I think the
big problem is that when wushu began to concetrate more on the
performance aspect instead of the martial one, it ceased to be a
martial art.

> 
> I think that this is one of the beauties of martial arts- ths
> potential growth of a style throught the generations as it is handed
> from teacher to student.

        Ditto

        Fo
From: mwong@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Marilyn J Wong)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Non-competitive MA (WAS:Re: The Christian MA)
Date: 23 Aug 92 22:23:15 GMT
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server

Mark,

What style of kung-fu do you study?

Marilyn 
mw@hpoemh
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ddukhovn@nyx.cs.du.edu (The Great Harlequin)
Subject: Re: Can boxing skills handle kicking ?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Keywords:  kickboxing
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 03:45:24 GMT


Has anyone been watching kickboxing from the K.I.C.K. organisation lately?  Did you notice that only the truly expert martial artists (as opposed to truly expert pugilists) are winning the championships.  I'm talking about the people who 
actually USE spinning kicks as follow up attacks, but doen't restrict themselves to kicking.  It takes a good understanding of multi-limbed combat to be good
at that sport (one which most of us happen not to have developed).  




Chanting "More!" at the Collosseum of life,
The Harlequin



Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: satadd00@nx22.mik.uky.edu (scott andrew taddiken)
Subject: Which joints can be locked in judo?
Keywords: judo, aikido, rules, locks
Summary: Elbow or shoulder: a correction of Wharfie's remark.
Organization: University of Kentucky
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:34:17 GMT

So called "bent" arm locks are acceptable in judo competition.  These involve
twisting the shoulder after immobilizing the bent arm of your opponent.  Some
people claim that the pain of this lock is actually on the elbow if you are
resisting "properly" but I have extreme doubts.

They are rare in competition, whether standing or grappling on the ground.

Interestingly, in sambo you are allowed to apply locking techniques to the
knees, but you are not allowed to apply strangles.  To each his own.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott A. Taddiken, University of Kentucky



Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schan@atria.srg (Stephen Chan)
Subject: Re: Different Karate Fists
Organization: ARINC Research
Date: 27 Aug 92 10:00:54

In article <memo.594179@cix.compulink.co.uk> bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar) writes:

   Ted A. Camus writes:
   >  Actually, I was proposing that using this style fist allows one to
   >  punch with equal force but less tension at the moment of contact.
   [snip]
   It's certainly true that this fist allows for less tension. Extensive
   [snip]
   the thumb is in a more risky position and is prone to getting
   knocked.

	I've sprained my thumbs with this fist during sparring. At my old dojo,
it was always emphasized that the wrists should be straight and the fist tight
at all times - at my new school, they use a different fist, which seems to
protect the thumb a lot more.

	Stephen
From: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Seoi Nage / Tomoe Nage
Date: 26 Aug 1992 23:41:24 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: na
Reply-To: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: danzan.ebay.sun.com

In article 28612@ms.uky.edu, satadd00@nx22.mik.uky.edu (scott andrew taddiken) writes:

>1. Drop seoi nage:  I am bewildered by comments that you are not allowed to
>   throw from your knees. 

I believe it is legal if both your legs are between Uke's legs. I do it
going down on my right knee with my leg trapping Uke's right ankle.
This is illegal (but I do Jujutsu so I don't care :-)).

---
Dave Scheid - All Disclaimers Apply
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: Re: What is "Index Over Fist"
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 20:19:57 +0000





>A GIANT light bulb just went on over my head.  Recently I have
>been working on assembling facts to back up my "Who cares
>what MA you practice they are all the same Theory".  Mainly I
>have been focusing on the fact that old ju-jutsu systems have
>"no-sword" techniques and these techniques are the foundation
>of modern empty hand do forms (Japanese systems are my area of
>expertise).
>
>I found that as I followed Mr. Burgar's description through on
>how to properly form the "index finger over fist" that it was
>identical to how to properly hold a sword or shinai.  I firmly
>believe this is the where it came from and that the newer style
>does much to help save you thumb.  I know that the newer style
>fist is also formed as the index over sytle but the tension and
>gripping required are more subtle and harder to do correctly.
>In this case safety has become more important than original form.


Ah! Now that's interesting. If you have any more info on that, I'd
be interested to see it.


>I would like to see Mr. Burgar's article on the fist.


You've got it.


>Robert Stroud
>Obukan Kendo Club
>Portland Oregon USA
>roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com


Bill Burgar.
From: malcolmc@spider.co.uk (Malcolm Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Aikido in Arizona?
Date: 23 Aug 92 18:26:11 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK


Another boring 'is-there' question...? Asking for a friend..

Does anyone know of/have recommendations for an aikido class for a beginner
in Arizona, in the Flagstaff area...

reply by email, I'll summarise if there is interest..

--- malcolm
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Malcolm Campbell                          |   Spider Systems Limited
                                            |   Spider Park, Stanwell Street
- malcolmc@spider.co.uk   +44 31 554 9424   |   Edinburgh, EH6 5NG, Scotland
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 21:01:29 EDT
From: Mitch Lewars <MAL112@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Penn state, UP. Clubs?

Anyone know when the Penn State UP MA-clubs
meet?  Thanx in advance for any and all information.
     Mitch..
MAL112@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: Fencing
Organization: National Institutes of Health
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 03:52:00 GMT

In article pmw2c@csissun12.ee.Virginia.EDU (Paul Michael Wayner) writes:
>
>What's escrima?

It's what 'e does, loudly, after a Filipino starts beating on
him with a pair of rattan sticks ;-)

All seriousness aside, escrima (from the Spanish word for
skirmish) denotes a system of stick, dagger, sword, and empty
hand fighting developed in the Phillipines.  There are
practically as many styles as islanders.  Some specialize in long
range fighting.  Others (e.g., the Serrada style practiced by
Khalid Khan) are exclusively close-quarters styles.  Still
others attempt to integrate techniques appropriate to various
ranges.

Despite the variety of escrima styles, they all share a common
analytical framework.  Escrimadors classify attacks according to
their angle.  This applies regardless of whether the attack is
made with empty hand, stick, or blade.  Different systems use
different numbering schemes, but a typical "angles of attack"
diagram would look something like this:


                    12

         4           |           1  
            \        |        /   
              \  9      11  / 
                   \   /           
                                 
       6  -----    8   10    -----  7
                               
                              
              /             \     
            /        |        \    
         2           |           3 
    
                     5  

Imagine your opponent at the center of the radiating lines.  A
typical angle #1 attack would be a strike at your opponent's left
temple, or a cut to the left side of his neck.  A #2 attack
might be a strike directed at his right knee.  A #3 attack at
his left knee.  A #4 attack at his right temple.  A #5 attack
would be a direct thrust at any target along his centerline from
groin to neck.  A #6 might be a strike to his right elbow, and a
#7 to his left elbow.  A #8 would be a backhand thrust starting
from the left outside and angling into the solar plexus of your
opponent.  This would typically flow into a #9 strike (think of
it as an abbreviated #4) to his right collar bone.  A #10 would
be the reverse of this: a forehand thrust starting from the
right outside and angling into the heart, that would typically
flow into a #11 strike to his left collar bone.  A #12 attack
would be any strike or cut coming straight down on the head.

For escrimadors this analysis of angles completely describes all
posible patterns of attack, and therefore prescribes the
necessary patterns of defense.

Other words roughly synonymous with escrima include Kali (from
tjakelele, the Indonesian word for fencing), Arnis, estoque,
estokada, and baston.

That's probably more than you wanted to know, but lots less than 
there is to tell.  Apologies to any offended by my 
oversimplifications.
--
Richard A. Drury
drury@helix.nih.gov
From: mwong@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Marilyn J Wong)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Rope as a weapon ?
Date: 23 Aug 92 22:22:19 GMT
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server

Chinese wu-shu uses a rope-dart.  It consists of a rope with a 5 pound
dart (resembling a mutatedly large fishing sinker on it) at the
end of it.  It is considered a flexible weapon and a challenge to learn.
There may be others, but this is all that I know. . . 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan)
Subject: Re: Different Karate Fist
Organization: ARINC Research
Date: 28 Aug 92 08:02:01

In article <1992Aug27.144515.24787@exu.ericsson.se> exudms@exu.ericsson.se (New Dave) writes:

   I'm not for shure I understand  what " the index finger folded over the fist"
   is truely meant here but in Chinese Shao Lin we have what is called the
   "Pheonix Eye fist". This is when you form a vertical fist with the index 
   finger and thumb pressed together. This protrudes from the fist creating
   a sharp point.

	Nope, the pheonix-eye fist is something else - the Japanese ippon ken
is functionally similar to the pheonix-eye fist - except that they use the 2nd
knuckle of the middle finger, instead of the second knuckle of the index
finger.
	I think that the Egami descended lineages use the ippon ken a lot. I
noticed that the yudansha in the CMU Shotokan club seemed to be using it
(they're from the Oshima line).

	Stephen
--
	Stephen Chan
	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net
From: hugo@batsparc.Berkeley.EDU ( Hugo Calendar )
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Jumping
Date: 2 Sep 1992 01:04:32 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: batsparc.berkeley.edu

Of course, the best thing you can do to become a good jumper is to lose
weight.  Become as THIN as you can w/o it weakening you.

Does a few pounds make a difference?  Try working out a while (or jumping)
with a ten pound belt on, and then you tell me.  :-)


Hugo
From: robh@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rob Hindman)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: JuJitsu and Karate - Is there a link ?
Date: 30 Aug 92 22:01:24 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle

I have been trying to find proof that there is a link between
Karate and JuJitsu.  At the very least, I want to validate the
"JuJitsu interpretation" (throwing interpretation) of classical 
Karate kata. 

I have been told that JuJitsu moves have been "embedded" in some
of the Karate kata.  As I become a more experienced Karate-ka,
I am begining to see this with my own eyes.  I am curious to find
out how and where the throws in these katas came from.

When reading the history of Karate, from various sources, including
Funokoshi (from a Samurai class family), one gets the impression 
that Karate was entirely an Ryu-island art form, and had nothing to 
do with JuJitsu, but was really derived from chineese boxing, ch'an-fa, 
tode, te, and ti.  Further, many schools of Karate teach Karate as 
purely a sparring art form - kicking, punching, blocking.

JuJitsu, as far as I can tell, included just about everything: kicking, 
punching, blocking, grapling, pins, strangulation, pressure points, and  
weapons such as the bo.

(1) First question:   Are the "throws" in "standard" Karate kata
                      (Pinan II, Pinan III, Pinan IV, Pinan V) of 
                      Jujitsu origin ?  

(2) Second question:  Funokoshi formulated the Taikyoko series of kata, 
                      but who formulated the Pinan (Heidan) forms ??  
                      Who formulated sanchin and bassai ??

(3) Third question:   Were any throwing art forms practiced on Okinawa ?
                      I think there MUST have been.  The books don't 
                      give a mention to it, however.

(4) Fourth question:  Do you beleive it?  If someone told you that there
                      was a link between Karate and JuJitsu, based on 
                      what you have seen and experieced, would you beleive it ?

I will collect the answers, and post a summary, if I get any responses.
Thanks, Robert.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
EMAIL: robh@bcstec.boeing.com or uunet!bcstec!robh  Robert Hindman-BCS
Disclaimer: My opinions and postings are not those of the Boeing Company.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jjsmith@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jonathan J. Smith)
Subject: Re: did someone say invertebrate?
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 18:16:42 GMT

In article <memo.594180@cix.compulink.co.uk> bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>
>
>>>Does anyone have any defenses in case the worms return?
>>
>>First, use a light nukite strike to the worm's midriff - very gentle 
>now,
>>dont cut the poor wee thing in half like last time (you brute you).
>>
>>If you do the strike lightly enough, the effect will be to tickle
>the
>>beast, and you can then tell which end is the head, by watching to
>>see which end is laughing.
>>
>>THEN...
>>
>>take your high-power magnifying glass, focus the sun onto its head,
>> and roast the brains outa the critter (MWOA-HA-HA-HA...!)
>>
>>Of course if its raining, just wait till it drowns...
>>
>>tk
>
>
>That's all very well for worms but slugs don't have a sense of
>humour,
>particularly when the are trying to break into my milk first thing in
>the morning. What technique do you use against a very large slug on
>top of your early morning pint. Personally I resorted to using a
>weapon.
>A small stick did the job, but the slug was not best pleased. Time
>to load up my .22 with slug pellets, I think. ;-)
>
>
>Bill Burgar


Hey, just grab a pinch or two of salt before you step into the morning air, drop that on the little beasties head and he'll give up the fight right there :)

Joanthan J. Smith
From: mwong@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Marilyn J Wong)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Recommendations sought for T'ai Chi in CA
Date: 23 Aug 92 22:20:10 GMT
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server

Hi Aaron,

Two schools in the Silicon Valley area are worth looking into:

Wing Lam Kung Fu School in Sunnyvale

Academy of Tai-chi and Wu-Shu in Mountain View

Hope this helps your friend!

Marilyn Wong
mw@hpoemh
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schwab@umbriel.mathematik.uni-kl.de (Hartmut Schwab)
Subject: Seoi Nage / Tomoe Nage 
Keywords: Judo
Reply-To: ricks@berkeley.edu
Organization: UC Berkeley IC CAD Group
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 07:46:44 GMT


There are some statistics about the most usefull throws in Judo.
In all statistics I have seen, the two first places have been
Seoi Nage and Uchi Mata. Sometimes the firstone in front, sometimes
the second one.

Some comments on Seoi Nage (I looked them up in a Book)
Ippon Seoi Nage:
Ukes balance has to be broken in front from Toris left hand drawing.
The throwing itself is been done in half a knee bend.
Ukes chest has contact to Toris back and shoulder.

Morote Seoi Nage:
Importand:
Tori may not draw Uke down to him ( if he is in throwing position),
but he must draw him straight ahead. He must try to let Ukes 
body standing.


There are many different posibilities in doing the throw.
Some good situations for throwing:
- Ukes centre of grafity is moving in front and Ukes weight is on
one ore both ball of the foot.
- There must be a very narrow contact from Tori to Uke from shoulder over
the back to the seat
- Toris legs must be bent, in order to lift Uke through streching(?)
the legs.

Eri Seoi Nage:
Yesterday I found a serie of pictures from German Judo tournament.
I will try to describe the Fotos and to point at the main Parts.
Tori is grasping with his left arm and defending with his right arm
the grip or Uke.
Then he is turning into the throw. But the throw is not done in 
front of Tori. He turned almost 270 degrees.
In one Picture, you can see Tori tipping to his right side, because of
the 270 degree turn.
In the last picture Uke is lieing on the floor and Tore is lieing
on the chest of Uke, his right shoulder on top of Uke and his leg in
90 degree to Uke.

I hope, you could follow my description and my awful english.

One problem in throwing Seoi Nage is, that it is not allowed in 
tournaments to throw with Tori beeing on both knees.

A little remark on Tomoe Nage
I looked at a girl, who is very good at Tomoe Nage. She jumps a little
bit when she is standing on her left leg, let fall herselfe to the floor
and lifts her right leg to Ukes hips. 
She is saying herselfe, that she tries to blockade Ukes right leg with
her own left leg.

Any comments on Seoi Nage or Tomoe Nage?


Hartmut Schwab
schwab@mathematik.uni-kl.de
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: Fencing
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 00:00:13 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.145217.9176@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> pmw2c@csissun8.ee.Virginia.EDU (Paul Michael Wayner) writes:
>
>CON for fencing -vs- SCA:
>-------------------------
>
>Fencing only allows certain target points, in SCA fighting the entire
>body is a legal target.

   Epee uses the entire body as the target.

>Fencing only allows thrusts, in SCA fighting draw-cuts are also
>allowed.

   Saber fencing allows both cuts and thrusts.

Dakin
burdickd@copper.ucs.indiana.edu


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: Paul.Elkins@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Paul Elkins)
Subject: Re: Activist shot at Berkeley Chancellor's home
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 12:23:53 GMT

In article <715302097snx@ietech.demon.co.uk> nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst") writes:
>
>A few months ago during some inner city troble, I saw a police
>officer effectively disarm a six foot two machete wielding
>160 lb assailent using an English Police trunction.  I belive

I'd like to here more about it.  What happened?

Thanks,
		-Monta
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Moving during kicking
Date: 2 Sep 92 13:39:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: unisql.3581
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <MARY.92Sep1123818@martinique.Cayman.COM> mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes:
>   >A good martial artist will not be unbalanced when executing a kick.
>	   Yes, but unless she's a *great* martial artist she'll sure as hell
>   be immobile until that foot gets back down to the mat.
>Disagree.  Many times I've seen someone with the front foot up to block
>(or chambered for a kick) scoot forward by pushing off with the standing
>leg.  It's not a hop, it's a sort of slide, and it looks really weird...

	I'm probably demonstrating my ignorance of the finer points of kicking,
but here goes :-) 

	If you move your body in any way but towards the target of your
kick, don't you lose the power of your kick?  

	If you hop on one foot, how can you possibly remain anywhere near
truly mobile?  Since you can't step with one foot, at some point in the 
movement _both_ your feet are off the ground and you lose any possibility
of altering your course.  Unless you have prehensile toes, I guess...

	I'm sure there are some people who are as mobile on one foot as
the rest of us are on two (which is why I added the "great" qualifier before)
but I have trouble with the idea that Joe Shodan doesn't need both feet on
the ground most of the time...