From: dehahn@strokr.shr.dec.com (chris dehahn)
Subject: Re: Riviera 4 valve heads
Reply-To: dehahn@strokr.shr.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:33:41 GMT

--
In article <1992Nov3.014514.6201@icomsim.com>, mmanning@icomsim.com (Michael
Mannning) writes:
|>Path:
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engage.pko.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!ames!a
agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!gatech!rutgers!psinntp!psinntp!icom1!usenet
|>From: mmanning@icomsim.com (Michael Mannning)
|>Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
|>Subject: Riviera 4 valve heads
|>Message-ID: <1992Nov3.014514.6201@icomsim.com>
|>Date: 3 Nov 92 01:45:14 GMT
|>Sender: usenet@icomsim.com (USENET News System)
|>Organization: Icom Simulations
|>Lines: 41
|>
|>
|>	I recall that someone was planing on getting a set of the Riviera 4 valve
|>heads for h 
|> 
|>is Evo. It may of been here in rec.moto.harley or it might have been on Ken's
|>Harley news letter. Either way, I wanted to find out how they worked out. I
|>don't think I want to drop $2200 for the things but they do sound like they
|>may be impressive. I saw an add that claimed 125hp from an 80' with the
|>Riviera heads a cam and twin Del 
|> 
|>ortos(sp?) and that's all. I talked to the shop manager at Illinois HD who
|>said they have installed them and claimed about the same thing. But then each
|>of these two stands to gain money if they say that. If not for the twin carbs
|>I might consider it.
|>	I'm planing on milling the heads on mine to get the compression up to about
|>9.5 to 1 were I think it should be. Caming it and maybe replacing the valve
|>springs with the XR750 style springs and adjustable push rods depending on the
|>cam I choose. I like the CV carb so far, so I plan on keeping it after I
|>drill/replace the jets. I already have slip fits on it. Most people seem to
|>think a new carb is a must. But then again I think most people over carb. My
|>FX had an S&S B on it. It behaved like an on/of
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>ch. Shitty idle or full throttle and not too much in between that was of any
|>use. This was a 1200 with a stock cam. Some people say that that's a good carb
|>for that, I still think it's way too much. But I'm open to suggestions, or I
|>wouldn't ask. Anyone feel that they have better suggestions as to how to
|>sanely up the power? I'd like to be at least in the 90-100 range. I personally
|>think I need at least that much on a 650 lb. bike. I'd just like the motor
|>that Harley would have built were it not for 
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>P.A.
|>
|>	Michael
|>
|>--
|>mmanning@icomsim.com
|>
|>`92 FLSTF Fat Boy
|>`92 
|> 
|> Ducati 900SS
|>
|>My sister in-law said that my duck "looks like having no kids and being single
|>must be like."
|>claimed about the same thing. But then each of these two stands to gain money
|>if they say that. If not for the twin carbs I might consider it.
|>	I'm planing on milling the heads on mine to get the compression up to about
|>9.5 to 1 were I think it should be. Caming it and maybe replacing the valve
|>springs with the XR750 style springs and adjustable push rods depending on the
|>cam I choose. I like the CV carb so far, so I plan on keeping it after I
|>drill/replace the jets. I already have slip fits on it. Most people seem to
|>think a new carb is a must. But then again I think most people over carb. My
|>FX had an S&S B on it. It behaved like an on/of
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>ch. Shitty idle or full throttle and not too much in between that was of any
|>use. This was a 1200 with a stock cam. Some people say that that's a good carb
|>for that, I still think it's way too much. But I'm open to suggestions, or I
|>wouldn't ask. Anyone feel that they have better suggestions as to how to
|>sanely up the power? I'd like to be at least in the 90-100 range. I personally
|>think I need at least that much on a 650 lb. bike. I'd just like the motor
|>that Harley would have built were it not for 
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>P.A.
|>
|>	Michael
|>
|>--
|>mmanning@icomsim.com
|>
|>`92 FLSTF Fat Boy
|>`92
|>

Using the CV carb with 4V heads is a waste.  It's a POS to begin with and too
small to boot. You have to get rid of that VOES junk, too, which means changing
the ignition. Your experience with an S&S 'B' is an anomaly, they work very
well on Evo motors. No, you can't vrooom-vroom - go from idle to WFO without
bogging the motor with a 'B' or 'D' carb. If this type of poseur activity is a
priority, then go with an S&S 'E' or 'G', they have accelerator pumps which
will
let you vrooom-vroom.

As for the 4V heads getting 120hp, that's at the CRANK. Plan on 90-100 at the
rear wheel. There was a 98ci 4V Evo on the dyno down the street that got up
to 140hp at the REAR WHEEL before the operator shut it down out of fear for
her life. 

The heads work. They are NOT a bolt on affair. How long they will last is very
questionable at this point. The cam is almost completely square, it's gotta
beat
the snot out of the valve seats.

IMO you're much better off going with a more traditional straightforward
approach.

ignition - Dyna S single fire
Coils - Dyna
Carb - S&S 'E'
Cam - depends if Sportster or Big Twin
Pistons - S&S (TRW), Arias or Wiseco 10:1 comp
heads - ported and flowed by someone that knows what they're doing
Pipes - pick 'em

This should get you in the neighborhood of 80hp at the rear wheel.

CdH

<<<<<<<<<<<<   Ninety eight....don't be late  >>>>>>>>>>>>
Chris deHahn....CdH....Digital Equipment Shrewsbury MA USA
dehahn@strokr.shr.dec.com
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