HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nazgul@alphalpha.com (Kee Hinckley)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:19:33 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Alfalfa Software, Inc.

Date: 3 Sep 92 21:36:48 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep3.213648.6456@alphalpha.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.computers,comp.human-factors,comp.windows.misc,comp.windows.news,comp.windows.x

johnm@cajal.uoregon.edu (John Martin) writes:
> anyone is arguing otherwise.  BUT -- among proficient users, a good CLI is
> still better and more productive then a GUI.

I just don't believe you can make blanket statements like that without
considering the task.  Take a look at EFIColor's Cachet program and tell
me you could color correct a picture faster with a command interface.
Take a look at any page layout program, fancy word processor, video
editing program or anything like that.  The key element is experimentation.
A GUI with a direct manipulation interface makes experimentation
far faster.  One result of this is that GUIs often *aren't* any faster.
But the result is better.
-- 
						nazgul@alfalfa.com

I'm not sure which upsets me more: that people are so unwilling to accept
responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate
everyone else's.
From: rws@expo.lcs.mit.edu (Bob Scheifler)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: PEX 5.1 Protocol Specification
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:04:36 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 11:34:55 -0400
Message-Id: <9209151534.AA07890@expo.lcs.mit.edu>

The final PEX 5.1 Protocol specification is now available via anonymous
ftp to export.lcs.mit.edu (18.24.0.12), in the directory /pub/DOCS/PEX/.
Changes made from the Public Review draft are listed in the file
"5.1P_changes" in that directory.
From: jmm@bart.inescn.pt (Jose Moreira)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: Wanted: Disabling Window Decorations
Date: 11 Sep 92 21:39:44 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: CG & CAD - INESC Norte

Date: 11 Sep 92 10:20:32 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep11.102032.6092@animal.inescn.pt>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x.motif,comp.windows.x

In article <1992Sep11.020646.13542@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu>, mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep8.204843.5424@Rapnet.Sanders.Lockheed.Com>, cupak@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com (John J Cupak Jr CCP) writes:
|> 
|> > How do I create a popup dialog box without the "decorations"?
|> 
|> > I don't want the user to be able to resize, minimize, maximize, move,
|> > or use the menu to close the dialog box.
|> 
|> The only sure way is to make it override-redirect.  (Well, that's not
|> quite *absolutely* sure, but any window manager that meddles with
|> override-redirect windows is just plain broken.  If you *must* be
|> *absolutely* sure, grab the server before doing anything else, make it
|> an override-redirect window, and don't ungrab the server 'till you're
|> done.)  Anything else is WM-dependent; some window managers make this
|> easier than others.  You can try making it a transient (see the ICCCM's
|> description of WM_TRANSIENT_FOR); this will sometimes make the window
|> manager give it lighter treatment...or perhaps not.  It's up to the WM
|> and the user.
|> 
|> 					der Mouse
|> 
|> 			    mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu


I think there is a better way to do that ...

You can set the "XmNmwmFunctions" and "XmNmwmDecorations" resources according to what you want the user to be able to. Thus you can remove one(!!!) or more capabilities to the window.
(see MwmUtil.h for all the decorations.)


					Jose' Moreira.
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Date: 10 Sep 92 04:59:08 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 22:11:58 GMT
Message-Id: <id.P72T.O1C@ferranti.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.computers,comp.windows.misc,comp.windows.news,comp.windows.x,comp.human-factors

In article <1992Sep6.060556.14670@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse) writes:
> In article <NEERI.92Sep1141334@iis.ethz.ch>, neeri@iis.ethz.ch (Matthias Neeracher) writes:
> > In article <YANDROS.92Sep1003712@j-g-ballard.MIT.EDU> yandros@Athena.MIT.EDU (Chad Phillip Brown) writes:
> >> (Does anyone know why there isn't a magic key sequence to get to the
> >> menubar, for instance?)

> "get to"?  The menubar is not a keyboard-useful device, unless you want
> to arrow-key step through everything.

Or unless you're running Microsft Windows. In which case you can step
through the menus selecting the underlined letters with the ALT key
depressed. It's amazingly handy. I wonder why nobody else has picked it
up. Does Microsoft have a patent on it or something?
-- 
Peter da Silva                                               `-_-'
Ferranti Intl. Ctls. Corp.                                    'U` 
Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012
+1 713 274 5180                                   Har du kramat din varg idag?
From: izeek@techunix.technion.ac.il (Ilan Aisic)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: X interface to tar?
Date: 6 Sep 92 09:50:06 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology

Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 07:24:30 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep5.072430.5057@discus.technion.ac.il>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

In article <1992Sep3.224106.10842@ncmicro.lonestar.org> ltf@ncmicro.lonestar.org (Lance Franklin) writes:
>Has anybody seen an Xtool that frontends tar?
> ...
Sun boundles "tapetool" with its OpenWindows.

    ____
     /  /   __ 
    /  /   /_/ /| /
 __/_ /__ / / / |/   o o o
 
                           Ilan Aisic
           In Israel                            In the USA:
Voice:   972-4-344474                         1-914-644-7710
Fax:     972-4-342492                         1-914-644-7763
E-mail:  izeek@techunix.technion.ac.il        ilan@allink.com
From: TGJ@UKHOUO.Prime.COM (Terry Jeffery International Product Support Group)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: X Sources FTP. Where?
Date: 15 Sep 92 09:03:56 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

Message-Id: <9209150808.AA05831@expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Encoding: 25 text (note by Terry Jeffery International Product Support Group), 25 message (from Jon J. Allen)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 09:08:52 UT

Is anyone using ARCHIE these days!!

I only ask as this mailing list seems to be full of 'where can I find'
type questions!!

I'm sure that if you used archie our mailboxes would sigh under the relief!!

If you've not used ARCHIE then send the following message with no subject

HELP

To

Archie@cs.mcgill.ca  (There are others, the reply will tell you about them)

============================================================================
Terry Jeffery International Product Support Group   Telephone +44 256 301230
Computervision (UK) Ltd Basingstoke                 Fax       +44 256 301215
Internet : tgj@ukhouo.prime.com
X.400    :  /C=GB/A=TMailUK/P=Prime/O=Prime Computer Ltd/S=Jeffery/G=Terry

  I play all the right notes - not necessarily in the right order
============================================================================

--- Original message :

Date: 14 Sep 92 09:37:55 GMT
From: jonallen@acsu.buffalo.edu (Jon J. Allen)
Organization: SUNY AT BUFFALO Computer Science
Subject: X Sources FTP. Where?
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
To: xpert@expo.lcs.mit.edu

I just got DESQview/X and will be ordering the developers kit real soon.

It does not come with all kinds of fancy programs like ppm and ppmtops,
ppmtoascii, giftoppm, ppmtogif, ppmtog3fax, g3faxtoppm....ETC.

One of my first tasks is to set up a network FAX server, and I like
X much better than MS WINDOWS. (So the ppmtog3fax and g3faxtoppm would be
a real nice extra.)

Anyway, where is a good FTP address where I can find many standard
X sources.


--
--Jon-J-Allen--jonallen@acsu.buffalo.edu--Computer-Science--SUNY-@-Buffalo-NY--
"I'm the school bully!   The classroom cheat.
    The nastiest playfriend, You ever could meet. " - the Who
From: shirley@fdr.jsc.nasa.gov (Bill Shirley [CSC])
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: GIF library
Date: 9 Sep 92 00:08:49 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Software Technology Branch - NASA/JSC

Date: 8 Sep 1992 19:25:41 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep8.142541@fdr.jsc.nasa.gov>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x


I am looking for a GIF library that will read a gif file and
load it into an X Pixmap.

Is there such a beast?

speed is important.
multiple images will be loaded.
effective use of colormap is important.
resolution of quntization a plus, but I could ensure that pictures
	contain less than N (~100) colors.

Where can I locate this? (ftp site)
-- 
Bill Shirley		|  ``Computer Science is not about computers any 
shirley@fdr.jsc.nasa.gov|	more than astronomy is about telescopes.''
From: tmcconne@sedona.intel.com (Tom McConnell)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: can an R5 client connect to R4 server?
Date: 8 Sep 92 03:25:51 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Intel Corporation

Date: 8 Sep 92 02:01:00 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep8.020100.28543@ichips.intel.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x


In article <1992Sep7.235622.20864@newshub.ccs.yorku.ca>, tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Anthony Wallis) writes:
> Brian J. Murrell (brian@ilinx.wimsey.bc.ca) asks :
> > Subject: Re: can an R5 client connect to R4 server?
> > Well the subject says (asks) it all.  ..
> 
> Now I'm confused.  What's a "R4 server", and how would it differ
> from, say, a "R3 server" or "R5 server" ?  I've recently spent
> many decahours with manuals and dirty experiments achieving the
> enlightened understanding that my server speaks only the X Protocol,
> Major version = 11, Minor version = 0 (plus the shape extension and
> XDMCP) and that all this R# icing is layered above that on the client
> side library only.
> 
> (Not only that, /* name drop */ Oliver Jones told me that the
>  lower levels of X were very stable and not to worry about R4->R5.)
> 
> What am I missing ?
> 
> --
> tony@nexus.yorku.ca = Tony Wallis, York University, Toronto, Canada
> 

  The "11" is X, version 11. The "R" is the release number, currently at 5,
shortly going to 6 with the release of X11R6.

  One problem with decyphering the release number of X from a vendor's server is
that sometimes they modify the server :) For instance, here is a piece of the
output from xdpyinfo from a VAXstation 3100, running ultrix 3.1, and the DEC
supplied X server:

            name of display:    fulton:0.0
            version number:    11.0
            vendor string:    DECWINDOWS DigitalEquipmentCorp.
            vendor release number:    11

and here it is from the MIT X11R5 distribution, in this case running on an
RS/6000, running AIX 3.1.6:

            name of display:    thunder:1.0
            version number:    11.0
            vendor string:    MIT X Consortium
            vendor release number:    5000

and here it is from an RS/6000, running AIX 3.2, with IBM's X server:

            name of display:    florida:0.0
            version number:    11.0
            vendor string:    International Business Machines
            vendor release number:    4

  The important fields are "version number:" and "vendor release number:".

  So, the IBM-supplied X is X11R4, the MIT X is X11R5, and the DEC X is unknown.
From what I can tell (and guess :), the DEC X from ultrix 3.1 is mostly X11R3,
with some nasty bugs.

  Does this approach the question?

    Cheers,

    Tom McConnell
-- 
 Tom McConnell          |     Internet: tmcconne@sedona.intel.com
 Intel, Corp. C3-91     |     Phone: (602)-554-8229
 5000 W. Chandler Blvd. | The opinions expressed are my own. No one in 
 Chandler, AZ  85226    | their right mind would claim them.
From: lbonham@osbu_south.xerox.com (Larry Dean Bonham)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Seeking Info on GUI Builders
Date: 12 Sep 92 10:51:38 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Xerox

Date: 11 Sep 92 19:07:11 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep11.190711.13267@vine.cp10.es.xerox.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

As the subject says I seek info on GUI Builders. Specifically...

What's out there? (Products/Companies)

Specific Product Feedback
	Features or lack thereof, Platforms Supported, UIL or
	languages/intermediate formats supported, Likes/Dislikes,
	Pricing Info, Availability, etc.

Historical Info (Duration of Product/Company)

Points of Contact within Co. (email addresses, individuals, etc.)

Any responses would be gratefully received at...

	lbonham@osbu_south.xerox.com

Thanks,

--Larry--

Background Information: We are looking as a bare minimum for a 
product that supports Motif or OpenLOOK (preferably both). As a
bonus, it would be a plus for it to support other platforms ala
Mac, MS-Windows, OS/2 PresentationManager, etc.
From: bagus@netcom.com (Mark E. Ruedy)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: X11R5 - HELP!
Date: 6 Sep 92 09:01:47 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Date: Fri, 04 Sep 92 23:49:57 GMT
Message-Id: <d7mnjz=.bagus@netcom.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x,comp.windows.apps

Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com by netcom.netcom.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA07327; Fri, 4 Sep 92 16:45:10 PDT
Received: from telco-nac.com by netcomsv.netcom.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
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Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 16:51:53 PDT
From: mark@telco-nac.com (Mark E. Ruedy)
Message-Id: <9209042351.AA23894@telco-nac.com>
To: bagus@netcom.com
Status: R


I'm pulling my hair out trying to get X11R5 installed.  I could list 10
problems with my installation right now.  I don't know which of these
are the serious ones and which are minor.

I got the code (which I couldn't get my SPARC to compile) from an ftp
site.  Then I got compiled code from a cdrom which doesn`t seem to be
complete ( configuration files are missing ).

The docs and READMEs are no help.  For one thing the information
seems to be scattered amoung various files. 

Is there anywhere I can get clear, concise instructions on how to
install X11R5 on a Sun SPARC?

I've seen the ads for Ready To Run software (co) and am almost ready
to plop down my $300.  It's cost me easily that much in time so far.

Has anyone ever used them? Are they worth the extra $?

thanks
mark
From: barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: Shared Libs: How can this EVER work?
Date: 11 Sep 92 03:45:10 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA

Date: 10 Sep 1992 16:57:36 GMT
Message-Id: <18nuq0INN97t@early-bird.think.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

In article <4953@metasoft.UUCP> alan@metasoft.UUCP (Alan Epstein) writes:
>How are the shared lib versions my applications expects supposed to
>sync with those on the target system? Do I have to link multiple
>versions for customers of various OS levels?

You should link with the version of the shared library on the oldest system
you wish to support.  SunOS-style shared libraries (which seem to be what
you're describing) are designed so that a program will find a newer minor
revision at runtime and use it (of course, the library maintainer must be
careful to maintain upward compatibility).
-- 
Barry Margolin
System Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.

barmar@think.com          {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
From: mouse@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (der Mouse)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: What would this window obscure?
Date: 6 Sep 92 11:43:42 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: McGill Research Centre for Intelligent Machines

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 92 07:47:14 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep6.074714.17579@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

> Distribution: comp

Please don't misuse newsgroup hierarchy names as distributions.

In article <WARE.92Sep3135501@organ.cis.ohio-state.edu>, ware@organ.cis.ohio-state.edu (Peter Ware) writes:
> In article <1992Sep3.154113.10359@cam-orl.co.uk> thg@cam-orl.co.uk
> (Tim Glauert) writes:
>> [The server] is allowed to generate expose events on areas which are
>> already visible.
> Pardon the technitrivia, but are you sure the server is allowed to
> generate expose events for visible regions?

In a practical sense, yes: the sample server does it.  (Of course, it
must *always* paint the exposed areas with the window's background, as
if a real expose had happened.)  The (R4) protocol document's
description of the Expose event is

     It is generated when no valid contents are available for regions
     of a window, and either the regions are visible, [or other clauses
     about backing-store].

So all you need to do decree that in certain situations the server
loses parts of the contents of the window, and presto! the condition is
satisfied, so an Expose event must be generated.

					der Mouse

			    mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu
From: marc@hemlock.cray.com (Marc Bouron)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: Need OpenWindows 3.0-compatible olvwm
Date: 10 Sep 92 03:04:22 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.

Date: 9 Sep 92 08:25:14 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep9.032514.15995@hemlock.cray.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x


There is a v3 compatible olvwm at export.lcs.mit.edu in the /contrib directory.
It's up to version 3.2, I think.  I have it and it works fine with OW 3.0.

Cheers,

[M][a][r][c]
From: william@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (William Cheng)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: strange ordering of fonts in the R5 font server...
Date: 7 Sep 92 07:49:06 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department

Date: 7 Sep 92 06:10:55 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep7.061055.28266@cs.ucla.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

When I do:  xlsfonts -fn "-*-courier-medium-r-normal--18-*-*-*-*-*-iso8859-1"
I get the following result on my SUN:

-adobe-courier-medium-r-normal--18-0-100-100-m-0-iso8859-1
-adobe-courier-medium-r-normal--18-0-75-75-m-0-iso8859-1
-adobe-courier-medium-r-normal--18-180-75-75-m-110-iso8859-1
-bitstream-courier-medium-r-normal--18-0-0-0-m-0-iso8859-1

The ``native'' 18 point courier-medium-r-normal font is 75dpi.
(If I do: xlsfonts | grep courier-medium-r-normal--18, all I
get is -adobe-courier-medium-r-normal--18-180-75-75-m-110-iso8859-1.)
Consequently, the 100dpi font is ugly because it's scaled.  Is there
any way I can reorder the fonts returned by the font server so that
the font corresponding to the native dpi is chosen first?
-- 
Bill Cheng // UCLA Computer Science Department // (310) 575-4507
3564-C Boelter Hall // Los Angeles, California 90024 // USA
william@CS.UCLA.EDU      ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!william
From: mahan@TGV.COM (Patrick L. Mahan)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: minizing X11 network traffic (paraphrased)
Date: 11 Sep 92 05:28:26 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

Date:    Thu, 10 Sep 92 21:57:46 PDT
Message-Id: <920910215746.46400126@TGV.COM>
X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"chris@wg.estec.esa.nl"

# Subj:	Server modifications to minimise network traffic
# 
# I have a few questions about X network utilisation. These may be a bit
# naive, but please bear with me - this is an area of X that I've not really
# looked into before. I'm looking for pointers to books and on-line documents,
# as much as answers.
# 
# The scenario we have is a closed network with a number of X terminals or
# workstations used as X terminals, with custom applications being run on a
# number of fileservers. We need to be able to minimise network traffic. One
# way that has been suggested of doing this is to build the bitmaps into the
# server and then use calls to the server to update the screen, rather than
# having to transmit the bitmaps. There would only need to be a limited number
# of bitmaps and there are no restrictions on the amount of memory and cpu
# power we could use. So, my questions:
# 
# 1)	Is this technically possible?
# 2)	Is it desirable?
# 3)	Is there any documentation or books that would point me in the right
# direction, or do I have to go straight to the source?
# 3)	Are there other ways of minimising network traffic that we should also
# investigate?
# 

1) Yes it is technically feasible, though not in the way you describe.  What
you will want to do is create PIXMAPs to contain the bitmaps and do XCopyArea()
to copy the contents onto the window.

2) Well it is a trade off.  Is the reduction of X11 network traffic worth
using more memory in the Server?  Is the network actually being adversely
effected by the X11 traffic?  I would suggest rather a careful analysis of
the traffic on you network and maybe the implementation of bridges and/or
subnets to reduce the overall traffic.

3) See the documentation on the Xlib routines for creating and manipulating
PIXMAPS.

3) As stated in 2) analyze you network traffic to see what is really active
on your net.


Patrick L. Mahan

--- TGV Window Washer ------------------------------- Mahan@TGV.COM ---------

Waking a person unnecessarily should not be considered  - Lazarus Long
a capital crime.  For a first offense, that is            From the Notebooks of
							  Lazarus Long
From: aardvark@nt1l.krl.com (Donald Koch)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: strange ordering of fonts in the R5 font server...
Date: 11 Sep 92 02:28:07 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Koch Research Labs

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:07:45 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Sep10.130745@nt1l.krl.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

In article <1992Sep9.071607.3471@cs.ucla.edu>, william@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (William Cheng) writes:
[...reported font ordering problem...]
> I tried the -u option, and got the following result:
> 
> -bitstream-courier-medium-r-normal--18-0-0-0-m-0-iso8859-1
> -adobe-courier-medium-r-normal--18-0-75-75-m-0-iso8859-1
> -adobe-courier-medium-r-normal--18-180-75-75-m-110-iso8859-1
> -adobe-courier-medium-r-normal--18-0-100-100-m-0-iso8859-1
> 
> The 75dpi (good) fonts still appear in the middle!  Any clues?

This is probably because you have Speedo in front of 75dpi in your font
path, which is where the bitstream-courier fonts are.  See what xset -q reports.
You can always force the "good" fonts to be chosen by stuffing adobe in the
second field.

-- 
Don Koch
aardvark@nt1l.krl.com