HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: schneier@chinet.chi.il.us (Bruce Schneier)
Subject: Re: Enlarging key size of the DES algorithm
Keywords: DES, key size
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:54:15 GMT

In article <6681@tuegate.tue.nl> bartjan@blade.stack.urc.tue.nl (Bartjan Wattel) writes:
>Hi,
>
>I'm currently working on a project which involves the design of a DES cryto-
>chip. When reading some papers on this subject, it appeared to me that there
>is a great need for enlarging the number of bits used in the cipher key. I read
>about an implementation of the DES with a cipher key of 768 bits in the paper
>of T.Kropf, J.Fr"ossl, W.Beller and T.Giesler: A hardware implementation of a
>modified DES-algorithm, in North-Holland Micorprocessing and Microprogramming
>30, 1990.
>
>Questions:
>
>  1)  Does anybody know the reason(s) for the number of circular left shifts
>      which are performed on the cipher key each iteration in the original
>      DES algorithm ?

They are designed to mix up the key.  As to the actual reason that particular
number was chosen...that is shrouded in mystery.

>  2)  Does anybody know of other modifications concerning the key size ?

There have been many.  None of them are any good.  Biham and Shamir showed
that DES with independent subkeys (the 768-bit key variant you mentnion) is no
more secure than DES.  Something else called GDES was also shown to be no more
secure than DES.  The security of DES seems pretty much limited to a 56-bit
key.

>  3)  Do modifications exist which have been published or proposed by the
>      NBS, or do other (de facto) standard modifications exist ?

No.

By the way, I knew about the DES-with-independent-subkeys variant, but I did
not have a reference for it.  Could you please E-Mail me with the complete
citation for the article you mentioned in your post.  A physical copy of the
article in my mailbox would be even better.

Thanks,
Bruce

*****************************************************************************
* Bruce Schneier            2,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,002,000,000,000 
* Counterpane Systems       000,000,000,000,002,000,000,002,293 
* schneier@chinet.chi.il.us The largest prime number...alphabetically!
* (708) 524-9461            Two vigintillion, two undecillion, two trillion,
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*****************************************************************************
From: butzerd@blanc.eng.ohio-state.edu (Dane C. Butzer)
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Subject: Help cracking a WordPerfect file...
Date: 11 Dec 92 19:22:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: ee.1992Dec11.192225.919
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering

I have a friend who forgot his password to a WordPerfect file.  I recall
somebody posted a FTP site with a program that could defeat the
'encryption' used.  Could somebody please e-mail me the site & filename?

Failing that, does anyone have any info on the encryption scheme
WordPerfect uses (& I'll try to break it myself...)


Thanks,
Dane Butzer
butzerd@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
From: reuter@venice.sedd.trw.com (Joseph Reuter)
Subject: Re: Enlarging key size of the DES algorithm
Keywords: DES, key size
Organization: TRW Systems Engineering & Development Division, Carson, CA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:50:12 GMT

The differential analysis results suggest to me that the DES transformations
divide into approximately 2^47 equivalence classes.  It does not seem at all
obvious to me that using the S-box bits as a key would produce a system
with 2^768 distinct equivalence classes.  It does no good at all to have
an enormous key space if many keys produce the same transformation.
-- 
Joseph A. Reuter, Wizard-in-Training
Speaking for myself from reuter@venice.sedd.trw.com
"Olorin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten." -- J.R.R. Tolkien
"You can't win, you can't break even, and it's the only game in town."
From: Ari.Huttunen@hut.fi (Ari Huttunen)
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Subject: Crypt. methods used in GSM?
Date: 21 Dec 92 00:35:00
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Distribution: sci
NNTP-Posting-Host: cardhu.cs.hut.fi

What encryption algorithm is used in GSM (Groupe Special Mobile)
mobile phones? It is my understanding that some single-key
encryption algorithm is used, where the phone company supplies
both partisipants of the conversation the necessary key.

How secure is this algorithm? And how about the phone companies?

For those of you who are not familiar with GSM, it is a digital
mobile phone system that will cover the whole of Europe. And
no, the algorithm is not an XOR-operation, that much I already
know. BTW, judging by the discussion here a while ago, we won't
be able to sell those phones to the US...;)

...............................................................................
Ari Huttunen				 
Newsgroups: sci.crypt,alt.security.pgp
From: gardner@convex.com (Steve Gardner)
Subject: Re: PKP/RSA comments on PGP legality
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:50:48 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <1992Dec17.232704.13763@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>I'm afraid this is an oversimplification. There are many whom
>the government has reason to collect intelligence on who cannot
>use secure cryptography with no fear of prosecution.
	Proof by assertion?  Do you have some examples?

>I sympathize with the desire for honest citizens to have secure
>cryptography. I count myself in that number. 
	Sorry, but you posts belie that IMHO.


>To believe this does not, however, mean that one should deny governments'
>legitimate interest in this matter, 
	How is the government's interest legitimate?  Does a government
	have an intrinsic right to spy on individuals? If so why?
	How was this "right" arrived at?

>and their taking of cryptographic violations of munitions laws much more 
>seriously than the building of airplane models.
	Considering cryptography a form of munitions would be laughable
	if fewer people were duped by it.  Munitions are intrinsically 
	life threatening.  Crypto is merely a mathematical transformation
	of data. No one can be killed by this.  The same argument that would 
	be used to claim that crypto is a munition could be used to claim that 
	mathematical knowledge is a munition. After all, newtonian mechanics
	can be used to calculate artillery trajectories.  Why isn't that
	a munition?  I'll tell you why: because the NSA and its cohorts have
	been successful in duping people into believing that crypto is a
	munition.  If people would only think critically about the 
	blantantly stupid and self serving things their governments try
	to dupe them into believing we would all be a lot better off.



						smg



Xref: sparky sci.crypt:5623 alt.security.pgp:150
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Newsgroups: sci.crypt,alt.security.pgp
Subject: Re: PKP/RSA comments on PGP legality
Date: 12 Dec 92 19:22:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Dec12.192210.10839
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Derek Atkins says there are plans in the works to produce a "de novo"
version of PGP using RSAREF, starting with the PGP interface specs.

If that product is to be usable in the U.S., whoever does this is
going to have to import IDEA legally, under the munitions act. Otherwise
one would not be able to decrypt messages sent with the non-U.S. version,
PGP 2.x.

David
From: bing@zinc.cchem.berkeley.edu (Bing Ho)
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Subject: PGP 2.0 help please
Date: 13 Dec 1992 05:42:40 GMT
Organization: UC Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: zinc.cchem.berkeley.edu

I just recently compiled pgp 2.0 and was quite impressed by it.  However,
I have a question about how it works.

I realize that I can use somebody's public key and encrypt a message
to him, but what if I am say the president of a corporation and
wish to encrypt a sensitive memo to all managers.  Would I have to
encrypt the file however times I have managers, each to his or her
own key, or could I create a "list" of recipients?

I'm sorry if this is in the documentation, but I wasn't really able
to elucidate it.

Thanks for any help.
-- 
Bing Ho
bing@zinc.cchem.berkeley.edu   University of California, Berkeley
From: andy@meefun.autodesk.com (Andrew Purshottam)
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Subject: Re: Spies using PGP
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:15:34 GMT
Organization: Autodesk Inc.
In-reply-to: hmiller@lucpul.it.luc.edu's message of 10 Dec 92 22:59:56 GMT

I recall seeing an article several years ago that 
the RENAMO organization in Mozambique was using off the 
shelf TRS-80/100 personal computers with Ham radio HT's and TNC's
and a shareware DES for field communications. Does anyone have
a proper citation for this? 

Andy 
--
-
Andrew V. Purshottam      /\     |  andy@autodesk.com  ...!fernwood!acad!andy 
Autodesk, Inc.	         //\\    |  (415)332-2344x2161  FAX (415) 331-8093
2320 Marinship Way      ///\\\   |  Sausalito CA 94965
"The views expressed are those of the speaker."
Newsgroups: sci.crypt,alt.security.pgp
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: PKP/RSA comments on PGP legality
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 00:41:12 GMT


At this point to respond to messages such as John De Armond's would
require repeating points that have already been made. In any case,
I'm not too interested in so doing given his personal remarks.

So I'll say that I've said what needs to be said; the counter-arguments
and my responses are getting very repetitive, and in  the interests
of sparing others as well as net bandwidth I'll rest on what's
been said so far.

Readers should not assume that silence from here on out denotes
assent.

Anyone interested in "and another thing" is welcome to e-mail me--
I do answer my mail.

David
From: cme@ellisun.sw.stratus.com (Carl Ellison)
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Subject: Re: Motorola DVP Technology
Date: 14 Dec 1992 21:33:25 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: ellisun.sw.stratus.com

In article <Bz0E9M.DMn@lila.com> dorsey@lila.com (Bill Dorsey) writes:
>[...] encrypted radios [using] DES encryption (presumably in ECB mode to
>allow recovery from the occasional corrupt data).


All DES modes allow recovery from corrupt data.  CBC is very good at it.
CFB might have a problem if you lost count of the number of bytes, but
there's no reason to use ECB.

-- 
-- <<Disclaimer: All opinions expressed are my own, of course.>>
-- Carl Ellison						cme@sw.stratus.com
-- Stratus Computer Inc.	M3-2-BKW		TEL: (508)460-2783
-- 55 Fairbanks Boulevard ; Marlborough MA 01752-1298	FAX: (508)624-7488
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
From: phr@telebit.com (Paul Rubin)
Subject: Re: The Security of CRCs
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:37:21

    I recently read something in DR Dobbs about the possibility of altering
    a file but keeping the same CRC.  I've tried putting together some
    test code, but it doesn't seem to work.  Has anyone done this before

Yes.
Newsgroups: sci.crypt,comp.org.eff.talk,alt.privacy
From: res@colnet.cmhnet.org (Rob Stampfli)
Subject: Re: drug dealers on the high seas (was Risks of Using PGP 2.0)
Organization: Little to None
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:02:21 GMT

>	Actually, it IS a crime to transport drugs anywhere in the world.  There
>is NOT country that has made it legal.

Try the United States -- specifically, the 21st amendment to the United States
Constitution, which expressly makes it legal to manufacture, transport, and
sell intoxicating liquors in the US, except as restricted by state law. 
Suppose a ship carrying Kentucky's finest bound for Europe (with the newly
relaxed trade tariffs) were seized on the high seas by a Middle Eastern
nation wherein consumption of alcohol was strictly verbotem.  Now, further
suppose the ship's crew were taken back to that nation, tried, found guilty,
and sentenced to be jailed for life.

Is this justice?

How is this tangibly different from the scenerio that has been previously
reported here?
-- 
Rob Stampfli  rob@colnet.cmhnet.org      The neat thing about standards:
614-864-9377  HAM RADIO: kd8wk@n8jyv.oh  There are so many to choose from.
Xref: sparky sci.crypt:5838 alt.security.pgp:266
From: woody@cs.utexas.edu (James Woodgate)
Newsgroups: sci.crypt,alt.security.pgp
Subject: Re: PKP/RSA comments on PGP legality
Date: 18 Dec 1992 02:41:03 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: cash.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Dec17.215901.1948@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>
[cheap shot at law professor deleted]

>This means the ethical position is still unchanged in this discussion. Using
>PGP in the US. is wronging the patent holders and violating the Munitions Act.
>

Ethically I don't have a problem.  If the government gets to use it for
free because tax-payers paid for the research, then so should I...

>Even for those who have no ethical concerns, suppose you were known to use it.
>It might jeopardize your ability to pass the scrutiny needed to obtain
>government employment, receive government research funds, or work on
>government contracts if somebody, somewhere, has a note in a file about you
>"violated Munitions Act." And you'd never know. Something to think about. Life
>is long, government files last forever, and some of the Yippees of the '60's
>now have government jobs.
>

I'd be more concerned about your reputation.  I'm sure you've set off a flag
somewhere: "You know that group of no good Yippees that post to 
alt.security.pgp, well I think they have a new leader.  Some guy named
David Sternlight has posted 63 messages in the last 48 hours.  I think
something is going down!"

>
>My position is clear. RSA has patents on a wonderful invention and they are
>entitled to the fruits of their work. To cheat them of those fruits is wrong,
>regardless of the legal situation outside the US., or whether one will get
>caught or not.
>

Agreed if they did it all themselves with their own capital, on their
own time....

>Now a word to my colleagues all over the world. Though you may be able to (or
>think you may be able to) use PGP with impunity, why not voluntarily send RSA
>a reasonable contribution for their invention--think of it as a shareinvention
>fee analogous to a shareware fee. Say $20. A large number of such gestures
>might change the context of the situation overnight. Note that this is my
>personal suggestion, and I have not discussed it with anyone.

So now we've come full circle.  The first post was from a guy that would
have loved to just send RSA(or PKP, whoever) $20.00 to be able to use
PGP "legally" What does he get for trying to be a nice guy?  A bunch of
legal double talk and one huge flame war.... :D

Merry Christmas!

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
  Linux Rules!                              woody@cs.utexas.edu
		           pgp key available -> finger woody@cs
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.crypt,alt.security.pgp
From: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Subject: Re: RSA Data Security Not All Bad
Followup-To: alt.politics.usa.misc
Reply-To: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 13:19:23 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.095122.19697@netcom.com>, strnlght@netcom (David Sternlight) writes:
>I guess companies think there's a big enough market without it. Given
>the notorious lack of ethics in some countries, leading to massive
>software piracy (Italy and Taiwan come immediately to mind), they
>probably aren't losing much anyway.

Perhaps you can just call George and he'll have some troops left over
from Somalia that he can send to the evil countries like Italy and
Taiwan.  That'll teach'em to violate God's Principles and rob the
money of the hard-working people in One and Only Nation Under God.

//Jyrki
Newsgroups: sci.crypt,comp.org.eff.talk,alt.privacy
From: tleylan@pegasus.com (Tom Leylan)
Subject: Re: drug dealers on the high seas (was Risks of Using PGP 2.0)
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 20:34:20 GMT

se_schn@pavo.concordia.ca (Ranfry) writes:
>
> 	Name one country where cocaine is legal.

Well the U.S. comes to mind.  You need a license but there are people with
them mostly researchers.  Just because you need a license doesn't define
something as illegal.

tom

Newsgroups: sci.crypt,alt.security.pgp
From: miron@extropia.wimsey.bc.ca (Miron Cuperman)
Subject: Re: PKP/RSA comments on PGP legality
Organization: Immortal Freedom's Deck
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 08:56:32 GMT

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

>This means the ethical position is still unchanged in this discussion. Using
>PGP in the US. is wronging the patent holders and violating the Munitions Act.

Well, some of us think that restriction on trade (export control)
is unethical.  Some of us also think that software patents are
unethical.  Some of us are even anarcho-capitalists and think that
government has no business in this matter.  Although you seem to
consider your position obviously ethical, I don't think it is.
Repetitiveness will not convince anyone either.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.1

iQBFAgUBKzGR7EutImLEeA/3AQGu9gF6A5pIS6f72zQ66GUDnebRiAc+6lKr0B8v
+7dFIto2hD+xndGMQiAGqekPZ0qibbxI
=Gtae
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- 
	Miron Cuperman <miron@extropia.wimsey.com>  | NeXTmail/mime ok
		       <miron@cs.sfu.ca>	    | Public key avail
	AMIX: MCuperman				    |
cybercomputingimmortallaissezfaire		    |
Xref: sparky sci.crypt:5772 alt.security.pgp:223
From: tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May)
Newsgroups: sci.crypt,alt.security.pgp
Subject: Re: RSA Data Security Not All Bad
Date: 17 Dec 92 06:52:49 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Lucio de Re (lucio@phyrql.Alt.ZA) wrote:
: tcmay@netcom.com (Timothy C. May) writes:
: 
: 
: >I haven't said anything about the various licensing deals with Lotus
: >Notes, Apple, DEC, IBM, etc. These deals suggest RSA's technology is
: >about to become widespread amongst corporate users, which is all to
: >the good. [ ... ]
: 
: Doesn't this mean that export outside the USA for such products is
: then impossible?  Just an odd thought, really, given the big wide
: world out there!

This is exactly a battle being fought by U.S. suppliers of crypto and
security tools. If they cannot export their products, and users of
their products cannot export either, then there are competitive
losses.

Ironically, the market for crypto tools may then develop and flourish
outside the U.S., with some products being "allowed in" to an
increasingly backward U.S. market.

One hope with the widespread deployment of full-strength crypto, as
with the RSA use in Apple, IBM, Lotus, etc. products, is that
pressures will then be applied by these hundreds of thousands of
customers to loosen expert requirements.

--Tim May

-- 
..........................................................................
Timothy C. May         | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
tcmay@netcom.com       | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
408-688-5409           | knowledge, reputations, information markets, 
W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA  | black markets, collapse of governments.
Higher Power: 2^756839 | PGP Public Key: by arrangement.
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
From: phr@telebit.com (Paul Rubin)
Subject: Re: PKP/RSA comments on PGP legality
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Date: 18 Dec 92 10:12:52


 Not everyone shares Sternlight's opinion that "RSA has patents on a wonderful
 invention and they are entitled to the fruits of their work."  See
 pesp. the FSF's position on algorithmic patents for an opposing view.

I think you're thinking of the position paper "Against Software Patents",
from the League for Programming Freedom, not the FSF.  Write to
league@uunet.uu.net if you want a copy.
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
From: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Subject: Ftp archive for crypt stuff
Reply-To: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 00:09:49 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.182321.8552@ghost.dsi.unimi.it>, vince@ghost (David Vincenzetti) writes:
>See ftp@ghost.dsi.unimi.it:/pub/crypt/d3des.tar.Z.

Stuff from ghost.dsi.unimi.it is also weekly copied to
/pub/crypt/ghost.dsi.unimi.ti at nic.funet.fi.

//Jyrki
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
From: a7657@mindlink.bc.ca (Stephen H. Kawamoto)
Subject: NSEA (DOS implementation availability)
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:59:58 GMT

Has anyone transport NSEA by Peter Gutmann (pgut1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz ||
peterg@kcbbs.gen.nz || peter@nacjack.gen.nz) to MSDOS?

I liked the portability. It compiled under TC++ runtime no problem but needs
this disk tutor tc++ 'shell' to run it. A stand-alone MSDOS implementation
would be greatly appreciated.

--
Stephen Kawamoto <a7657@mindlink.bc.ca>
    "It is the very mind itself
     That leads the mind astray;
     Of the mind,
     Do not be mindless."
     (an old Japanese folk song)
Newsgroups: sci.crypt,alt.society.civil-liberty
From: karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger)
Subject: Re: Limits on the Use of Cryptography?
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 01:55:04 GMT
Organization: MCSNet, Chicago, IL

In article <c5kJVB4w164w@k5qwb.lonestar.org> lrk@k5qwb.lonestar.org (Mr. Lyn R. Kennedy) writes:
>jim.wenzel@grapevine.lrk.ar.us (Jim Wenzel)  writes:
>
>>     I still post the question:
>> 
>>     Since laws will probably be drafted concerning the use of cryptology
>>     how would you want such a law  to read if you had the opportunity to
>>     shape it.
>
>"Congress shall make no law......."

Try this:

	The right of the people to be secure in cryptographic
	communications shall not be infringed, and no laws shall issue
	forcing the disclosure or registry of cryptographic keys.  Just so 
	no one misunderstands the intent, this is a complete ban on 
	infringement, and shall extend to federal, state, local and all 
	other arms of government.

That might be airtight enough.

--
Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, <well-connected>!ddsw1!karl)
Data Line: [+1 312 248-0900] Anon. arch. (nuucp) 00:00-06:00 C[SD]T
Request file: /u/public/sources/DIRECTORY/README for instructions
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
From: uri@watson.ibm.com (Uri Blumenthal)
Subject: Re: Status of DES, or "Is the DES Standard PD?"
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:57:43 GMT
Reply-To: uri@watson.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: Drop off, you ****...

In article <Bz98An.BLJ@dcs.ed.ac.uk>, pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley) writes:
|> I always assumed that the only reason the NSA could have for attempting
|> to suppress RSA while promoting DES would be that they've got DES
|> cracked, and they Know the Secret of the S-Boxes.  

a) It's news to me, that NSA "supressed" RSA.
b) If absolutely prohibiting any export of DES is "promoting" 
   it - then our definitions of terms are indeed different.
c) Some people consider DES too slow for routine encryption
   and seek maybe-less-secure-but-faster alternatives. What
   then about RSA? What but the key exchange is it good for?
   Encrypt my hard drive?  Tape archive?  Online  digitized
   voice?
-- 
Regards,
Uri.		uri@watson.ibm.com
------------
<Disclaimer>