HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: barger@ils.nwu.edu (Jorn Barger)
Subject: Re: Why Do People Read Horror?
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 15:20:01 GMT

I don't know what this story implies, but it sheds an interesting light
on the horror question:

If you ride the Howard el in Chicago, at some point you will be sitting
there minding your own business when a crumpled cardboard asking for
money will be thrust at you, and if you look up (never wise) YOU WILL
HAVE THE SHIT SCARED OUT OF YOU by the most hideously disfigured human
you've ever seen.  His name, if I remember right, is Mike, and he was
horribly burnt some years ago: no hands, not much of a face left.
If he was in a movie, it would have to be R rated, yet he wanders
the el... *I've* had nightmares about him, and I'm fairly tolerant.

His sign says he's collecting money for an operation... but columnist
Bob Greene looked into the matter, and found that he could get the
operation free, anytime: the money is going to Mike and his partners,
rumor has it, for drugs.

A couple of friends of mine, more idealistic than me, have tried to
befriend him (not knowing of the scam).  One got close enough to ask
how he spends his free time: he reads horror novels.

===========================================================================
Jorn Barger, Northwestern U., Chicago, Illinois.         barger@ils.nwu.edu 
   "And crazyheaded Jorn, the bulweh born?"   _Finnegans Wake_ 513.07
           Ask me about the Finnegans Wake mailing list!
===========================================================================
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:7650 alt.politics.homosexuality:1832 alt.sex:13719
From: zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.sex
Subject: Re: Homosexualism
Date: 8 Apr 92 04:03:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Apr8.000306.10825
Organization: Dept. of Math, Harvard Univ.

In article <1992Apr7.204500.35828@dante.uucp> 
mason@dante.uucp (Mason Jones) writes:

>zeleny@boucher.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) writes:

>: In article <1992Mar30.192631.24571@dante.uucp> 
>: mason@dante.uucp (Mason Jones) writes:

MZ:
>:>:If you mean that you have no say in determining your desire, I might agree.
>:>:If, on the other hand, you are telling me that you are utterly incapable of
>:>:controlling this desire, I must disagree.

MJ:
>:>This is absolutely ludicrous unless you are trying to say that you think
>:>someone whose desires go against what so-called society thinks is right
>:>should sublimate those desires.  If that's indeed what you're trying to
>:>say, then you're simply a bigot.  Clarify, please.

MZ: 
>:If that were what I was trying to say, I would have been a democrat; I am
>:not, so I wasn't.  There is absolutely no reason why individual moral
>:judgment must in any way depend on social consensus.

MJ:
>You're dodging the point.  Let's narrow it down here.  Are you saying
>that someone whose desires are what you personally consider to be
>immoral should sublimate those desires?  That is indeed what is to
>be inferred from your post.

Your rules of inference appear spurious; I challenge you to explicitly
elaborate your reasoning.  In fact, what I'm saying is that someone whose
desires are what he personally considers to be immoral should sublimate
those desires.  Of course, if I am right in my moral speculations, their
moral judgment should also coincide with my own; however this obligation is
wholly different in nature, and in any case, altogether independent from
the former.

`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
: Qu'est-ce qui est bien?  Qu'est-ce qui est laid?         Harvard   :
: Qu'est-ce qui est grand, fort, faible...                 doesn't   :
: Connais pas! Connais pas!                                 think    :
:                                                             so     :
: Mikhail Zeleny                                                     :
: 872 Massachusetts Ave., Apt. 707                                   :
: Cambridge, Massachusetts 02139           (617) 661-8151            :
: email zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu or zeleny@HUMA1.BITNET            :
:                                                                    :
'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: This Present Darkness/Piercing the Darkness.
Keywords: Darkness
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:05:18 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <sbb1.702604642@Ra.MsState.Edu>, sbb1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Shay B. Berthelson) writes:
> This is basically in response to the lady who asked if we had read any good
> books lately.  The two books which I have named, This present darkness and
> piercing the darkness, by Frank Peretti.  These are two of the best books,
> that I have read in a very long time.  I know that they have actually been
> on the market for a while now, but they are still way up on my list.  Peretti
> (if u haven't read them) shows life through three plane's: the mortal, the 
> angelic spirtiual realm, and the demonic spirtual realm.  The book is actually
> considered to be Christian Fiction, which I understand because of the constant
> references to the spiritual realm and prayer power through christ, but the 
> book is not preachy, it tells a story within several realms using the christian
> faith as a mediator.  The book is very well written, keeping u involved and
> fairly left in suspense until the very last page.  If you have read Peretti's
> novel "This Present Darkness" and liked it. The motion picture is going under
> production in about a year.
> 
> Just thought I would share my thoughts.
> Shay B.

You are going to get flamed to a crisp in this group.

I've read _Piercing The Darkness_, and while the story is clever,
I'm afraid that the characterizations are weak.  There's a little
too crisp of a division between the good guys and the bad guys --
I've met no one that was so clearly divided into positive and 
negative traits.

To be honest, I was really bugged by the supernatural aspects to it.
I know that it is intended to appeal to a fundamentalist market,
but my rationalist nature was offended.  The story would have been
just as effective (and about 80 pages shorter) without it.



-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"The mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a
favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately, by the grace
of God." -- Thomas Jefferson
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: bl959@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Philip G. Terrie)
Subject: Re: Did Jefferson father Heming's child?
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 23:55:38 GMT


John, 
	You're right: I have given up with options left unex-
plored. I have NOT exhumed the relevant corpses and checked
the DNA (though I gather from recent news reports that one 
should be just a bit skeptical concerning the reliability of
DNA tests). Did you know that a genealogist traced the
descendants of the Hemings children and found two families
that were demonstrably descended from her? Interestingly, one
was living as a white family and the other as African-American--
which just goes to prove what Faulkner spend a career writing
about: "race" is nothing more than a social construction. 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: palmerc@palmerc@abulafia.b21.ingr.com (Christopher M. Palmer)
Subject: Re: read any good books lately?
Organization: Intergraph Corporation
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 21:53:31 GMT

I'll jump in too:

I'm reading a book of Latin American short stories called "[A/The]
Hammock Beneath the Mangoes" (I don't remember the editor).  It is a
pretty good cross section of Latin American authors, organized by
geographical location.  No single story has really jumped out at me
yet, but it is helping my list of authors to look into.

I am also rereading "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" and
enjoying it immensely.  "Lila" is on my stack of books to read next.

I just picked up a copy of "The Changed Man", a paperback anthology of
horror-type stories by Orson Scott Card who is one of the only SF
authors I seem to be able to stand to read lately.  I haven't read any
of these stories yet.

Recently, I re-began Gravity's Rainbow for the second time, but like a
previous poster got bogged down and abandoned it again.  I'm sure I'll
read it soon and love it.  I did the same thing (start, abandon,
start, abandon, ...) with some of my favorite books like Ulysses and Dune.


-- 
|  Christopher M. Palmer          # There are two kinds of fool.  One says,   |
/  Intergraph Corporation         # "This is old, and therefore good." And    \
\  Huntsville, AL                 # one says, "This is new, and therefore     /
|  palmerc@abulafia.b14.ingr.com  # better."                                  |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: ???Behaviorist Brainwashing????
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1992 18:52:46 GMT

In article <10279@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>In article <1992Mar27.234758.29971@intelhf.hf.intel.com>, pgryan@intelhf.hf.intel.com (Paul Ryan) writes:

># For anyone in rec.arts.books who *hasn't*  sometime in the past year already
># experienced Clayton's obsession with bashing homosexuals: this is, of 
># course, bullshit.  The gay community does NOT support NAMBLA, the gay
>
>Shall I provide some quotations from soc.motss justifying NAMBLA's
>desire to abolish age of consent laws?

Only if you can demonstrate that those quotations represent  the views of
the gay community. Otherwise, you are not responding to Ryan's criticism.

> How about the continual
>defenses of adults having sex with children as young as eight?
>Perhaps some of JoJo's postings on the subject?

What is your evidence for your implication that "JoJo" represents 
views held widely by the gay community? If you don't have any, you should
apologize for what you have posted, although I doubt you have the grace to
do so.

The fallacy of inferring a general truth from a particular person (or set
of people) is well-documented.


--Mike






-- 
Mike Godwin,     |"Les vrais paradis sont les paradis
mnemonic@eff.org | qu'on a perdus."
(617) 864-0665   | 
EFF, Cambridge   |          --Marcel Proust
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.cyberpunk
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Publishing on disk 
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 15:12:26 GMT

Jeroen Huinink writes:

	Mary Anne Walters writes:

		Forgive me if I am a bit behind the curve on this, but 
		I just read about William Gibson's new book _Agrippa_ 
		(the Book of the Dead).  I understand it is going to be 
		published on disk, with a virus that prevents it from
		being printed out.  

	I do not see any point in publishing books on disk. I for myself 
	*hate* reading from a screen. I do favor a book. It's better for 
	your eyes and you can take it everywhere (e.g. in the train, on 
	the bike, in school) and I don't see myself carrying a laptop all 
	day, just to read a novel. 

Here in the Stanford Exploration Project, our Director, Jon Claerbout, is
pioneering books and Project Reports on disks. And with good reason; they 
are interactive. The worked examples really work. A return, finally, to
reproducible research.

						Francis Muir

francis@sep.stanford.edu
From: vance@speech.sri.com (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Q about _Gravity's_Rainbow_
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:50:49 GMT
	<1992Apr9.174800.19856@infonode.ingr.com>
	<1992Apr9.142342.16989@hemlock.cray.com>
	<1992Apr10.195958.25042@watserv1.waterloo.edu>
	<VANCE.92Apr10151438@kyoto.speech.sri.com> <1992Apr13.1439
Organization: Speech recognition group, SRI
In-reply-to: msmorris@watsci.waterloo.edu's message of 15 Apr 92 14:18:02 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.141802.3851@watserv1.waterloo.edu> msmorris@watsci.waterloo.edu (Mike Morris) writes:

   In music it'd have to be Le Sacre for raw energy.

"Raw energy"?  I think our tastes are really diverging here.  Against
a certain background, Stravinsky's repetitions, rhythms, and
dissonances may have seemed primitive or raw; but the work is also a
showpiece for his enormous orchestral technique.  The beginnings of
the two tableaux, to pick two obvious examples, are not only gorgeous
but utterly tidy and groomed -- how else could we hear so much?  I
think this canonical interpretation of the piece as primitive is a
classic case of the influence of extramusical knowledge (here some
combination of the "program" and the famous story of the premiere) on
musical interpretation.  Compare, for instance, either of the guitar
solos from the original Big Brother and the Holding Company version of
"Ball and Chain" -- not that I really nominate these as Dionysian, but
they come a little closer to rawness than Stravinsky the cosmopolitan
ever could.  (For some text that might influence your ears the other
way, try any of the volumes of "Conversations with Stravinsky".)

To haul this back from the brink into the margins of a literary
discussion, I guess what I'm getting at is that, whatever it may have
meant to Nietzsche, the opposition Ap/Di has never bought me anything
in sorting out my impressions of art.  Perhaps I can phrase my reasons
as a result of my way of reading and listening: part of this is to
imagine myself in the place of the producer (a virtual producer, of
course, in most cases).  So any particularly overwhelming "effect" is
balanced by my concurrent awareness of the care with which it was
created (the Rite); and any sense of abandonment in production (here
again it is hard to find examples -- smashing guitars?) is balanced by
the lame or ineffectual result.

	Vance

ObBook: _Conversations with Stravinsky_ and its successors are
actually good reading in moderate doses.  The man was a charmer.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.books.technical,misc.books.technical
From: khushro@niagara.eecs.umich.edu (Khushro Shahookar)
Subject: Re: HELP
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 17:29:02 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: na
Reply-To: khushro@niagara.eecs.umich.edu (Khushro Shahookar)
Keywords:  HELP

In article <1992Apr14.161325.22574@watmath.waterloo.edu>,
hbauschk@watmath.uwaterloo.ca (Heinz Bauschke) writes:

|> I am looking for a mail-order bookstore (ideally with e-mail or 1-800
number)
|> having a large selection on math books, U.K. books (or just books).
|> 

Author:         Rose, Marshall T.

 Title:          The little black book : mail bonding with OSI directory
                   services

 Published:      Englewood Cliffs, N.J. : Prentice Hall, c1992.
 ISBN:           0136832105


--
KHUSHRO SHAHOOKAR
khushro@eecs.umich.edu   Univ. of Michigan, Ann Arbor
From: bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale)
Subject: Re: ENGLISH AS SHE IS SPOKE
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 12:02:27 GMT




In a previous article, paul@clodii.Columbia.NCR.COM (Paul Fidler) says:

>In article <WARK.92Apr15091738@gandalf.think.com> wark@gandalf.think.com (Mark Warkentin) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr14.205151.26537@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> paul@clodii.Columbia.NCR.COM (Paul Fidler) writes:
>>
>>   In article <1992Apr10.132743.7505@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale) writes:
>>   >
>>   >
>>   >Soda was pop.  I had to get used to that; if you said soda, you got plain
>>   >soda water.                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     ^^^^^^^^^^
>
>>
>>   Uh, 
>>
>>   What did you expect to get?  Coca Cola?  Mountain Dew?  7Up?  Sprite?
>>
>>   I mean, the variety of carbonated soft drinks/pop/sodas/"cokes" is such
>>   that they are usually specified by trade name, no?
>>
>>   If you said "pop", what did that mean? Any brown-colored cola?
>>
>>   What about root beer?
>>
>>"Pop" is anything non-alchoholic that fizzes.
>  
>
>   Yes, I know.....
>
>The particular context above has to do with specifying what you want, like 
>in a restaurant.          
>
>Surely you can't just say, "I'll have a 'pop', please."
>
>Invariably you will have to be more specific, whereas "soda" (according to
>Bonita and others) *can* mean, specifically, plain soda water.
>
>
>HINT: I suspect the answer to my inquiry is that "pop" is only a generic
>      term and wouldn't actually be used when ordering drinks....
>
>      Same with "soda", more or less....        
>                               
>

Okay, this is hearsay from a campus setting thirty years ago, but the guy
who asked for "soda" was supposed to be ordering a case of mixed flavors
for a party.  There were at the time a lot of New Yorkers at MSU, and their
accents and language were a subject of discussion.  It took me a little
while to realize that "You don't -sound- like a New Yorker," was supposed
to be a compliment! 

And of course, in a restaurant, you might ask what kind of soda they had. 
My kids do it all the time, but they say "What kind of pop...?"


Bonita Kale
From: vance@speech.sri.com (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Q about _Gravity's_Rainbow_
Date: 9 Apr 92 19:53:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: kyoto.VANCE.92Apr9125314
	<73066@netnews.upenn.edu> <1992Apr9.174800.19856@infonode.ingr.com>
Organization: Speech recognition group, SRI
In-reply-to: palmerc@palmerc@abulafia.b21.ingr.com's message of 9 Apr 92 17:48:00 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.174800.19856@infonode.ingr.com> palmerc@palmerc@abulafia.b21.ingr.com (Christopher M. Palmer) writes:

   In article <73066@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:

   >Since you mentioned Pollack, let me ask: do you have any appreciation
   >for non-representational painting?  Say a "typical" Picasso.  I'll
   >assume that you do.  The appreciation comes from both the closeness
   >to and the disparity from traditional painting.

   I don't have a lot of respect for non-representational art *if* I
   don't know that the artist is capable of representational art.  In the
   case of Picasso, I didn't have any real respect for his art until I
   saw a collection that had some of his early paintings which showed his
   transition from realism to abstract representation.  According to Kurt
   Vonnegut, Pollack also made this transition.  Without this background,
   how do we know that the person has artistic talent.  Certainly some
   painting, abstract or otherwise, have innate artistic quality.  But if
   you are confronted with a Pollack or a late-period Picasso, how do you
   know if the painting is a challenge to traditional modes of art, or
   just the semi-random scribblings of someone who cannot paint.

Arg!  If "challenges to traditional modes" were the only justification
for non-traditional art, then once all the challenges had been made,
surely artists would peaceably return to the fold.  Neither of you has
mentioned the obvious possibility that Picasso and Pollock (his true
name) painted the way they did *because they liked how it looked*!
Analogously, the simplest way to judge whether a painting or a book is
good is to see if you like it.  Clearly you guys disagree about the
value of certain works, but the only way this debate on tradtion can
shed light is by exposing some of the preconceptions that affect your
responses -- weemba's that pushing on tradition is good, palmerc's
that only tradition allows judgment.

Disclaimer: This from a person who initially had trouble figuring out
the attraction of >>representative<< art, and still thinks Kandinsky
was the best of them all.

	Vance
From: vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu (Phred T. Platypus)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Another DAVID EDDINGS Q
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:02:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.m=xjx_q
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

>In article <kaschenb.702853897@sfu.ca>, kaschenb@fraser.sfu.ca (Kevin Ernest Aschenbrenner) writes:
>> 
>> 
>> Does anyone know the names of the next books in
>> the series that began with THE DIAMOND THRONE?
>> I remember reading it, and then not seeing the rest
>> of the series...are there anymore?  Has he finished
>> it yet--or is he going to make us wait like he did
>> with the last one.

    The Diamond Throne
    The Ruby Knight
    The Sapphire Rose

   All three are currently out.  I don't know about the fourth book.



-- 
"You ask me if sex is one of the most  _\_\    _/_/     Phred Platypus
 important things in life?  Absolutely. _\_\  _/_/  Grammarian of Vengeance
 But the lack of it is even likelier     _\_\_/_/ [ vjmurphy@carina.unm.edu ]
 to drive you nuts." -- Harlan Ellison    _\_/       Vincent J. Murphy
From: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Subject: Re: King Arthur, many versions
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Reply-To: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Organization: ICS Dept., UC Irvine
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:04:45 GMT

In <1992Apr7.204358.16875@leland.Stanford.EDU> gere@umunhum.stanford.edu (Susan Gere) writes:

>It seems to me this should be a FAQ, like the Holmes list.
>--Is there a FAQ for this group (seriously, now) ?

>I would be willing to compile the Arthurian list, though I have not
>saved previous offerings and would need email reconstitutions.

I maintain an Arthurian list of my own, partly cribbed from the
camelot mailing list.

If there's interest, I'll make it a FAQ for this group.  I've PLENTY
of experience with FAQ's now... <grin> ...so getting it set up and
officialized with news.group would be trivial for me.

Let me know if you think its a good idea.  (You = all of you readers).

--Cindy

--
Cindy Tittle Moore

Internet: tittle@ics.uci.edu       | BITNET: cltittle@uci.bitnet
UUCP:     ...!ucbvax!ucivax!tittle | Usnail: PO Box 4188, Irvine CA, 92716
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: sm@vg.ph.man.ac.uk (Steve Mowbray)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: reading in bed
Date: 16 Apr 92 14:19:10 GMT
Reply-To: sm@g2.ph.man.ac.uk
Distribution: rec
Organization: University of Manchester,U.K.

In article <1992Apr16.015201.1751@leland.Stanford.EDU>, repnomar@leland.Stanford.EDU (Janet M. Lafler) writes:
 
> Purdy...lowered his voice.  "Now.  We never had this conversation."   B.J. was 
> alarmed to hear it.  Who _had_ had this conversation and what had he been 
> doing while they had it?

Where's your .sig from? I don't think one of those has ever made me
laugh out loud before...

-- 
Steve Mowbray, Physics Department, University of Manchester, U.K.
-  Janet: sm@uk.ac.man.ph.g2  /  Internet: sm@g2.ph.man.ac.uk  -
From: jon@cyclone.MITRE.org (J. E. Shum)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: ENGLISH AS SHE IS SPOKE
Date: 16 Apr 92 19:21:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: linus.1992Apr16.192157.718
Organization: The MITRE Corp. McLean Va.
Originator: jon@cyclone


In article <1992Apr15.230744.11148@husc3.harvard.edu>, zeleny@zariski.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) writes:
> In article <1992Apr15.233632.6419@linus.mitre.org> 
> jon@cyclone.MITRE.org (J. E. Shum) writes:
> >In article <1992Apr13.133700.886@morrow.stanford.edu>,
> >francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes: 
> 
> FM:
> >> This sounds like Lewis. Most Americans (Statesmen?) don't seem to realize
> >> just what an assole C. S. Lewis really was. This is a prime example. 
> 
> JES:
> >If being deliberately literal to make a point makes one as asshole, then
> >I'm one as well.  I would say calling someone an asshole in a public
> >forum might qualify a person for the label.
> 
> By your own lights, you have just qualified.

I beg to differ.  I believe that I stopped just short of committing
said act.  You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

-- 

<jon@mitre.org>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books