HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: warton@ssd.intel.com (Peter Warton)
Subject: Re: Martial Arts and Karla (was Re: Thanks, thoughts & requests)
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division, Intel Corp.
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 00:06:49 GMT

In article <61022@mimsy.umd.edu> scottk@cs.umd.edu (Scott King Walker) writes:

>
>I am not sure how many people here know this, but Karla is a black
>belt in Karate, or Tae Kwon Doe (sp) in particular.  This was not
>a secret, but she just may not have mentioned it.  (For newcomers,
>Karla, also a survivor is my recently deceased girlfriend, see other
>articles, or ask someone else about all of that.)
>
>It has been mentioned by a few helpful people that when I feel ready,
>I might want to start doing more things that actively remind me about
>her, that would be good for me at the same time.  I had never thought 
>of myself as "good enough" physically to do something like that, but 
>if I don't do it now, I won't ever be.  Anyway, I am feeling kind of
>inspired and I just might do it.  It kinda feels like Karla would like
>it if I did.
>
>Karla started her training (we decided together) for two reasons.
>First, to get out of the house and away from her mother, and secondly
>to protect herself from her brother who would beat her up.  (Who 
>started taking Karate lessons, and this was her excuse to get started.)
>
>I am not ready to start quite yet, but I may be starting before the
>semester is over.  A friend, also my Research advisor, has been thinking
>of starting (again, but it was a long time ago for him) and he kind of
>needs a push.. but he wants to start.  And I want to see what this is
>all about.  It appears that it was very good for Karla, and maybe it
>can be good for me.
>
>Any thoughts or e-hugs gladly accepted.  If your name is Karla, the
>same goes, but please sign off with more than just your first name..
>it flips me out too much somtimes.  


Scott,

Here's an e-Hug for you.

	I always have respect for high-belt martial artists (I do believe
it's an art, not a sport).  Karla must have been (must be) an amazing
soul.  I think that finding an inspiring sensei (sp?) was vital to me
in terms of being committed and really studying.  I guess a king size
bed would have helped too, in my case :-)  Good luck if/when you decide
to start.

-- 
_____________________________________________________________________________
Peter Warton  (the h was dropped    | Against my better judgement (not to
over 800 years ago) 		    | mention the advice of my friends) I
warton@ssd.intel.com		    | speak for myself.
From: sasnla@shadow.unx.sas.com (Nancy Agnew)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: ASAR good survival seal of approval
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:05:50 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.
Originator: sasnla@shadow.unx.sas.com


In article <Bw7AH1.8s4@twwells.com>, anon-1159@twwells.com (Kristian) writes:
>I don't know whether ASAR has an official seal of approval for
>particularly helpful postings, but I think it would be a great idea.
>
>I thought about this first when I saw the Hints for Significant Others
>(I think it was by Jaso) which may have even made it into the FAQ by
>now.  This was an incredibly good and helpful posting.  Thank you,
>thank you, thank you!

cloister indicates that he has included that section -- a great
addition!

>The idea came back to me twice again tonight when I was reading two
>postings by Nancy Agnew:

Thanks, Kristian, for letting me know that the stuff I was writing
for me was also meaningful for you.  I am in a tough place today (was
up a lot of the night feeling body memories and physical sensations
from 30 years ago, as y'll know, it's the pits) and what you wrote
gave me something else to think about besides all these physical
sensations.

have a good weekend y'all -- we have had absolutely gorgeous
weather for the last several days, and it's State Fair time (a lot
of fun for someone born/bred in Boston's suburbia), and there
really are good things happening alongside the unpleasant ones (I
keep looking around to verify this for myself today).  best wishes...
NLA

Oh, btw:
> You must be one terrific teacher, Nancy!
>I'd love to see you in action!

Well, actually, I'm not teaching currently.  It's been several 
years... but thanks for the thought.
-- 
Nancy Agnew                         sasnla@unx.sas.com
SAS Institute Inc,  SAS Campus Dr,  Cary NC 27513-2414
My company's opinions are not likely mine, and vice versa.
From: tdelaney@penn.Gwinnett.COM (ted delaney)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: holidays...
Date: 9 Oct 92 04:07:06 GMT

nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:

> This is hypothetical, since I think that I was abused without ritual,
> but why not invent your own holiday to be held on October 31 with
> maximally reassuring symbols? Now that I think about it, maybe the
> rest of us could use WarmFuzzyDay, too.

(thanks for the nice non-flame reply)
I dunno, maybe it just seems worse with it being on a Saturday this year
(fortunatly Sun is my night to go out), but I alway worry about the safety
of my pets....(part of my abuse was the senseless slaughter of familly pets
to keep me quiet, and also the killing of animals)- so we (esp the kids inside)
are VERY afraid of the pets dissappearing that night...
(just turned down an interview as it would mean LOTS Of traveling and couldn't
do it, as the pets mean THAT much to us....)

also I guess what bothers me with this holiday (Oct 31) is that lots of BAD/evil
things are 'covered' by the festivities....
ah well....
thanks
Ted and
From: anonymus+845@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: THANKS, ALL
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:12:33 GMT
Organization: Anonymous contact service


 I am really grateful to this service!
 As I read the daily posts,   I am so
 relieved to know that there are others
 out there who feel, hurt and are as
 afraid as I am- but who keep going and
 dealing with it and are healing.

 Today, I feel more positive, just knowing
 that I can post here-- not have to "hide"
 anymore.


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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: robertc@sco.COM (Robert Chansky)
Subject: Re: mpd
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1992 19:16:52 GMT


In article <1992Oct1.194930.1027@unislc.uucp> you write:
>Suki (blaze@westmark.Stanford.EDU) wrote:
>
>: In article <1992Sep30.213456.24153@unislc.uucp> erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes:
><sigh> Here we go again... OK, DIPSHITS, LISTEN UP!  STOP FUCKING YELLING AT
>ME AND RE-READ WHAT I POSTED!  Goddamnit, I'm getting real fucking tired of
>watching myself and others get their shit jumped because *you* go off half-
>cocked and get a button pushed and think it's OK to flame away.  Well, it's
>time for *me* to flame!


Er, I think you could have said this way, WAY better than this.  I know you
felt attacked, but a counterattack, I think, just isn't going to soothe the
ruffled feathers.  I think my analytical brain stopped reading your post
after the word "dipshits", and from there on your words, rather than making
me think "that's not what he meant after all"  (which I should point out I
knew already) -- made my think "boy, this guy is getting way too defensive".
And even "boy, this guy is a real jerk."

I imagine that was not the message you had in mind.

In your first article, you might have considered putting a disclaimer in there
somewhere, that you hadn't meant SURVIVORS were making up instances of
cult abuse, but that other opportunists were.  So, in that sense, you were
incorrect, and your reaction to Suki's reaction I found terribly immature, no
matter what feelings you had; especially since you had lots of time, after all,
to think; but didn't.

-- 
                                 . 
                     (.signature at 50 meters)
From: anonasar@khijol.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: RE: Introduction
Date: 7 Oct 92 07:20:15 GMT
Organization: Bleeding Edge Technologies

X-ANON-Version: 0.5


anon-1218@twwells.com (Anika) writes

> Hi. Guess it's time for a proper introduction.
> Run now...

thanks for the warning, but I don't scare easily :)

> 
> Ok. I think we're safe down here.
> 
[ the touching story deleted ]
> 
> Well, I'm lost and confused, and this is a terribly long letter. If no one
> made it this far, I don't blame them, and it's ok because just writing it

Uh, I made it this far.  I hope that doesn't make me "no one" :)

> helped me.

would a hug help too?

only if you want them
*hug*hug*hug*hug*hug*hug*hug*hug*hug*hug*hug*hug*hug*

> 

- Taylor

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From: uribe@jarthur.claremont.edu (Lydia Uribe)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: will it be a chanb. or combo
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:49:44 GMT
Organization: Claremont Shelter for Maladjusted Singers

In article <1992Oct15.161533.12585@zip.eecs.umich.edu> fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Dr. Matt) writes:
>and one classical composer, for what its worth

(Hi, Matt! ;-)

And one classical soprano/mezzo-soprano....

To sort of get this back on track, is there anybody else out there who uses
music as a therapeutic tool?  I find that, when I start getting *really*
depressed and down on myself, singing will usually help relieve it (even
when nothing else does).

					Lydia

"You're more than beginning -- you're learning to fly;
 You feel like you're falling, but it passes in time...."
			"From Me to You", Janis Ian
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Soprano (Lydia M. Uribe)                      uribe@jarthur.claremont.edu |
| Claremont, CA                                  uribe@hmcvax.claremont.edu |
|           Cats, quilts and diving -- what more could anyone ask?          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: enigma@netcom.com (Enigma)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Important ACS update (godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu)
Date: 9 Oct 92 00:39:35 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Oct8.131726.2223@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> mo@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>Just as a sort of for-your-information thing, further discussion about
>the "fire extinguisher" has gone on in another group, and Karl has stated
>that currently it is unarmed and will be reserved for extreme cases of
>abuse of his service.  He has explicitly stated that he gives a.s.a.r.
>people extra slack, because this group is not for recreation but for survival.
>
>E-hugs (and warm fuzzies) to all who will accept them...
>
>-mona
>

Thanks, mona, that helps make the situation a bit clearer...

BTW, did this thread trigger any bad feelings in anyone besides me?  
I felt really uneasy with the crossposting, and seeing some of the 
people that posted to it (it's a little scary to log on to asar and
see "howeird" in the header... ).  Karl, I know you're providing
a much needed service, but would it be a huge imposition to post
separate announcements for asar and the other groups?  Especially if
you're applying different standards to the asar people...  which by
the way I appreciate.

Holly
-- 
Holly McGrath   <enigma@netcom.com> 
1803 Mission Street, #339          
Santa Cruz, CA 95060              
(408) 479-4072  (voice mail)     
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anonymus+1401@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu (darkangel)
Subject: hi again...
Organization: Anonymous contact service
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 15:12:45 GMT

>
>
>I remembered something else a couple of days ago.
>I will warn you that this is..hideous, and I wouldn't blame you if you didn't
>read it, or even never spoke to me for it.
>But I have to say it...as much as I hate to think about it.
>
>Whenever he(the first perp) would have finished doing whatever he had done (I
>don't know what it was, it was never the same..usually worse than the last
>time)  he would stroke my hair and kiss me and rock me in his lap..like it had
>always been me he loved..and then he'd carry to my room and put me in my bed,
>and sit there next to me for a while.  But then he would just hurt me again and 
>then afterwards do the same thing.
>I don't understand it now, and I really didn't then.
>Maybe there really isn't anything to understand.
>The worst part is that I liked it...I mean when he would sit there and comfort
>(is that really what you'd call it?) me..I thought maybe he'd stop..or
>something.
>But now this only confuses me more.  This is supposed to be out of hate, right?
>But did he really hate me?  I wish he'd just hit me afterwards..at least I
>could have understood that.
>These things are the same thing my so does to me when he comforts me...and I know it isn't the same
>thing...but why doesn't it, in my mind, feel as if they aren't the same? 
>
>
>
>(help....)
>
>
>darkangel 
>

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From: anon-1159@twwells.com (Kristian)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: ASAR good survival seal of approval
Date: 16 Oct 92 06:10:09 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

I don't know whether ASAR has an official seal of approval for 
particularly helpful postings, but I think it would be a great idea.

I thought about this first when I saw the Hints for Significant Others 
(I think it was by Jaso) which may have even made it into the FAQ by 
now.  This was an incredibly good and helpful posting.  Thank you, 
thank you, thank you!

The idea came back to me twice again tonight when I was reading two 
postings by Nancy Agnew:
	The first was her comment about mind reading.  Mind reading 
was my desperate way of trying to figure out what my parents would do 
next ... and I never could ... and, therefore, I never could avoid 
"that".  It worked the opposite way too when for years as an adult I 
could not talk about my abuse or my profound needs directly, but only 
in "code" ... and then felt totally uncared for and unworthy when 
others did not read my mind and decode the message.  Mind reading, as 
you say, Nancy, is out.  It is so much better and freer to state what 
we mean and name what we need.  Too much is at stake to be playing 
games and loading the dice specifically on the side of being 
misunderstood and hurt.
	The other marvellous posting was Nancy's sharing her initial 
approach to teaching and how to acknowledge that mistakes can be made 
for a variety of reasons and that there are gentle and constructive 
ways of making corrections.  You must be one terrific teacher, Nancy!  
I'd love to see you in action!  And what strength to be so open with 
those impressionable young people.  So many times -- just in regular, 
everyday life -- I've been sure of my facts, but been thrown back into 
self-doubt and "holding my counsel" because I've been in the presence 
of someone who would view a correction -- however well-intentioned -- 
as a reproof or a personal attack instead of a dialogue with two people 
working together to try to "get it right".  Because I too still smart 
from some of these early "lessons", I have always tried when I've been 
in an instructing or leadership position to be open and respectful to 
all questions and challenges, but you've given me a marvellous tool, 
Nancy, to set up the situation initially so we can all know the 
situation and feel comfortable with it.  Thanks again!

Kristian

PS to Jeff
	I am using a different editor today, and am trying to adjust 
the other one I use so as not to justify right (as opposed to dress 
right :-)) in order to avoid the annoying variations in letter and 
word spacing.  It is looking O.K. on my laptop screen right now:  hope 
it turns out alright in the posting.  K.



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From: anonasar@khijol.UUCP (Anonymous poster for alt.sexual.abuse.recovery)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Thought for the day for Oct 13
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:52:20 GMT

X-ANON-Version: 0.5

          You may want everybody to think you are a  perfect  person,
          so  you  act  out a role that says, "I'm fine, do not worry
          about me, I am tough and I  don't  need  any  help."   That
          creates  separateness between yourself and others and keeps
          you from love at the very time you most need it.  Have  you
          noticed how much love you feel towards others when they are
          vulnerable and admit that they are not sure how  to  handle
          something,  rather  than acting as if they know it all?  Do
          not be afraid to be seen for who you are.

                                -- Sanaya Roman,
                                  "Personal Power Through Awareness"


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From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Argh...  *Spoilers*
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:51:23 GMT
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

***Spoiler Warning***  (Minor)


Hiho...  Just another daily post from little 'ol me.

Life is definately getting confusing as all hell over here.  I've taken breaks
from reading ASAR, and thinking of things, to center myself before continuing.

Odd experience.  Haven't done that before.  Well, not true I suppose.  Just not
in a while.

Today I headed over and saw Darlene...  We've been talking, and it's been
decided that we definately have feelings for each other other than "just
friends".  But she is in too tenious a position with her life with John (she
was already homeless, and all her savings have been put into that apartment)
and just too confused as to what she wants to know what she should do...

So we did some more talking about everything, and proceeded to screw our brains
out afterwords...  Not good.  (We agree on that!)

Things are just really confusing at the moment, and I don't know where it's
headed.  I know my emotions (I care greatly for Darlene (outside of the
floodgate that I'm dealing with)) and my ethics (big no-no until things are
clarified!) and what I should do (just be a friend while I heal).  But things
are conflicting with each other, producing CONFUSION!  AAAAHHHGGGHHH!!! 
(Imagine me shaking my head back and forth while yelling that!)

I'm not suicidal right now, merely confused.

Damned if I know what I'll do.

And should this actually be posted here?  This is beggining to become more of a
rant than anything else...  Ahh well, when the 7 days are up again, I'll
re-disappear.

+--------------------+------------------------------+------------------------+
|Krikket             |  krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us  | USnail: 3 Danada Sq. E.!
|a.k.a Doug Krick    | NOTICE: Your milage may vary |  Suite 246             !
|Data # 708/665-9732 | E-Hugs to those who want 'em |  Wheaton, Il 60187     !
+--------------------------------------------------+-------------------------+
|                What God wants, God gets, God help us all!                  |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: anonasar@khijol.UUCP (Anonymous poster for alt-sexual-abuse-recovery)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: um, so much for mourning...
Date: 8 Oct 92 13:16:05 GMT

X-ANON-Version: 0.5

(the standard letter)
Dear Friend,

	Karla Marie Alwan died early Friday morning (September 25, 1992)
in Memorial Hospital in Savannah Georgia.  She had gone in a few days
earlier with breathing problems.  They determined that she had many 
blood clots in her lungs.  They were doing everything that they could,
and she seemed to be improving.  After 2 days in Intensive Care, they 
moved her to a regular room.  She liked this and was very happy because
she was able to talk to people on the phone.  She died that night.

	Karla was buried on Tuesday (September 29, 1992) in Bonaventure
cemetary in Savannah.  Her family is looking forward to planting a 
Magnolia tree in her memory.  

	Karla's family would like you to know that she was happy at the
end of her life.  Thursday in the hospital she was happier, and more 
talkative, than they ever remember seeing her.

	I am really not sure what else to say, but you can feel free
to contact me.  My address is scottk@cs.umd.edu, and my telephone
number is (301)384-1568.  I loved Karla very much, and I am thankful
for every moment that we were able to spend together in the few months
that I knew her.  

	Karla had many things that she never got to do... but one in
particular was very important to her.  She wished to make some major
contribution towards the fight against Child Abuse of all kinds.  I
am going to continue this fight that I started with her.  You may do
with this information whatever you feel is appropriate.

Scott King Walker
(Karla's boyfriend)
September 30, 1992

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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: zitsky+@CS.CMU.EDU (Mark Ryan Miller)
Subject: Child!
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 18:24:42 GMT

Well, I was abused/molested, when I was much older (around 19), at a
time when I was just learning that I was gay.  It took a long time 
to realize that I didn't ask for it, and that even though it felt
good, it was wrong for the person to assault me.  Basically, something
that was supposed to be totally non-sexual was turned into sex.

The guilt is even stronger when you're practically an adult and 
'should have seen it coming.'

There have been times when I saw something that reminded me of a bad
experience, and I tried to keep from crying in public.  I know how you
feel.

To other guys/gays out there, don't be ashamed because someone assaulted
you.  You can be sure it wasn't your fault.
From: stote@tomcat.den.mmc.com (M. Stote)
Subject: Re: Back to therapy
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics Group
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:41:51 GMT

[Robert Ankeney mentions taking piano lessons and wanting to learn
to paint]

I have really had this longing to learn to play the trumpet & last Christmas
Shelly bought me a trumpet - talk about a total surprise!!

I still haven't taken formal lessons but I have an instruction book and aobut
once or twice a week I practice with it.  Its slow going but I love it and
it really touches me deep inside.

That creative urge is slowly developing inside and I'm trying to gently 
nurture it - but its hard waiting sometimes.  I know some people reccomend
pushing it along and at some point that might feel right but for now it
feels really good being aware its inside and slowly getting stronger

--
Mike Stoughton
stote@den.mmc.com
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery