HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: luk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asking someone his "nationality" (Today's "Dear Abby")
Date: 25 Jul 92 17:35:22 EDT

In article <131502@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>, tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov writes:
>>In article luk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
>>I was in Livermore National Lab and found out US citizenship is not 
>>required for some permanent positions. Besides, foreign students with 
>>F1 visa etc. can be postdoc in government research labs. 
> 
> Are you sure?  Are non-citizens allowed to go inside the gates, or 
> are they just allowed to be in a very few buildings outside the lab?
> 
> --
> Terry Cheung
> tcheung@ramius.ocf.llnl.gov

Let me try again...
I "visited" Lawrence Livermore National Lab and NASA/Ames Research 
Center(in Sunnyvale?) a month ago. I was only allowed to be in 
visitor centers/employment offices. 
 
In both places, US citizenship is not required for some permanent 
positions--that's my point. 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: kemnitz@netcom.com (Greg Kemnitz)
Subject: Some recent stats in the San Jose Mercury
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 08:51:14 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Summary: the model minority revisited...
Distribution: na

While I am well aware that there are vast sectors of the Asian American
community have economic difficulties, a recent compilation of statistics
in the San Jose Mercury was interesting: it showed that household income of
AA's is the highest in the country when the data are indexed by reported
race.  Also, AA's have the highest average educational level in the country.

This does not indicate a lack of discrimination or racism.  In fact, in a
perverse way it may be _because_ of racial factors: AA's tend to go into the
more "meritocratic" fields of engineering, science, or medicine (or into small
businesses) rather than the more subjective fields of law and corporate
business management, where knowing the right people is probably more important
than "being good", which tends to be more difficult to define.

The fields AA's tend to go into will assure a person of a firm foothold in the
upper middle class, but they will not pave the way to power in the way that
being a lawyor or an MBA would.  It would be interesting to see how many AA's
are in that top 1% of Americans who control 90% of the national wealth.  Maybe
the Hu-meister has some data on this on his magic stat sheet :-) :-)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Kemnitz                        | "I ran out of the room - I
MultiMedia Information Systems Inc. | didn't want to be killed by a pile
kemnitz@netcom.com                  | of VMS manuals" :-)
                                    |
                                    | --A friend at DEC Palo Alto in the Quake
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: Group letter to "Dear Abby"
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 05:43:39 GMT

If you guys are serious about writing a joint letter to Dear Abby, how
about someone writing a first draft and posting it here, then the others
can offer their *constructive* criticism?  Whose idea was that anyway?
Kevin?  You want to give it a crack?

However, I must warn you that Abby, being a media person, has very little
influence over the perceptions of others.  :-) :-) :-)

Jim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: rtang@sunee.waterloo.edu (The One Your Mother Warned You About!)
Subject: Re: Cheese
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 00:57:50 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.223226.14263@tcsi.com> gwu@nujoizey.tcs.com (George Wu) writes:
>     Granted, this is not a scientific study, but it should serve scaa
>quite well.  :-)  Besides, milk is a whole lot better than Coca-Cola.

Ahhh, Ok, thats what I meant in the first place.
I stopped drinking Soft-drinks completely, now I only go for the
hard stuff.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: sedayao@sousa.intel.com (Jeff Sedayao)
Subject: Re: Cheese
Keywords: cheese
Reply-To: sedayao@chopin.intel.com
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:00:05 GMT


Some Asian ethnic foods have cheese and other dairy products in them.
Many Indian dishes have cheese or yogurt as ingredients.  Also, when 
I go to the local Filipino bakery, I see plenty of baked goods with
cheese in them.  Goes to show how broad the category "Asian" is.

As for me, I love cheese (demonstrated by my elevated cholesterol level).
I especially love to have feta cheese or real blue cheese on my salads.

-- 
Jeff Sedayao
Intel Corporation
sedayao@chopin.intel.com
..!uunet!intelhf!chopin!sedayao
From: david@xlnt.com (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asking someone his "nationality" (Today's "Dear Abby")
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:59:43 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: XLNT Designs, Inc (XDI)

clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
>In article <1127@xlnt.COM> david@xlnt.com (David Johnson) writes:
>>
>>I have had countless people ask me my ethnicity.  Many netters might
>>assume that mostly Caucasians ask this but 90% of the people who ask
>>me are ethnically Asian.  Philipinos in particular ask me if I am Philipino.
>>It has been the experience of mine, my mother's and my wife's that Philipinos
>>think everyone is a Philipino and are not afraid to ask to confirm it.

>  At the risk of sounding strident, I react differently to
>  how the question is asked, and by whom.  If an obviously
>  lonely person of Asian descent working at a menial position
>  at a restaurant asked me, then I tell them "I'm Chinese, or
>  my parents are from China."  Usually they're looking for someone
>  to talk to.  Especially if they're stuck in a boony-town miles
>  from any other people from their country.  I see it as a way
>  for them to try to start a network.  Since they're looking
>  for people to talk to I answer them the way they wanted me to
>  answer.

The thought did not occur to me that they just want someone to talk to.
I always like to play with them but I never did it in a mean way the
way I do with rednecks.  

Occassionally my wife and I ask people their
ethnicity.  We usually ask when we think they are Burmese because their
place is decorated with some Burmese handicrafts.  It is unusual to meet
people from Burma in the US and it is a thrill for my wife to run into
anyone from there.  She gets really homesick sometimes.

BTW, I saw the correction that Filipino is spelled FILIPINO.  I grew
up around Filipinos and never did get the spelling straight until now.
No one ever corrected me before.

-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com
From: hiebeler@think.com (Dave Hiebeler)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Pearl Buck Books
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:10:13
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation
NNTP-Posting-Host: passion.think.com
In-reply-to: bgt@cbnewsh.cb.att.com's message of Mon, 20 Jul 1992 21:18:45 GMT


  I read "The Three Daughters of Madame Liang", and didn't really
think it was really so great.
--
Dave Hiebeler                  | Internet: hiebeler@think.com
Thinking Machines Corporation  | UUCP: {uunet,harvard}!think!hiebeler
245 First Street               | Bitnet: hiebeler%think.com@mitvma.bitnet
Cambridge, MA 02142  USA       | Phone:  (617) 234-4070 (work)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american,ca.politics
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Re: When Asian income is less than Blacks
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:24:34 GMT

In my opinion, the numerically disproportionate academic success of Asian-
Americans can be explained by the nature of the immigrants themselves...
mostly highly educated and overqualified for the jobs they hold.

If you adjust the figures for the number of engineers and teachers and
other skilled professionals who have emigrated to this country, and place
them in the same proportion as the number of Latino/African-American and
White college educated people, I suspect the disparities will mostly
vanish... I think, in fact, I've seen studies to this effect.

Basically, the point is, that highly educated parents tend to produce 
highly educated children... there is a statistical correlation between the
level of the parents college education and the academic success and eventual
progress of the children.  If you start out on top of the skills heap, you
tend to remain there, in other words.

Personally, statistics can be manipulated to produce any answer you want,
but you have to look at the underlying rationale to be able to make a
rational decision on the validity of the manipulation.

Thom

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (Ugga de Boogidie)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: alcohol (was Re: Cheese)
Keywords: cheese alcohol
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:13:59 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: thedarktower.corp.sun.com


Well it looks like a lot of A-As have the same condition with regards
to alcohol as I do. Has anybody ever tried "upping" their alcohol
tolerance, i.e. drinking a little bit more each time? Does it work?

I feel a little left out when it comes to social drinking but at the
same time I don't get the kind of pressure I used to when people see
that I'm not drinking.

	Melinda
From: andy@meefun.autodesk.com (Andrew Purshottam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Request for archive copy of asian male rant.
Date: 25 Jul 92 02:17:38 GMT
	<1992Jul24.053302.19683@oakhill.sps.mot.com>
Distribution: na
Organization: Autodesk Inc.
In-reply-to: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com's message of 24 Jul 92 05:33:02 GMT


Your paranoia is admirable, but uneccessary here.  "For fun" != "make
fun of", at least for me. I consider Andy's rant to be a wonderful
distillation of the Asian Male's Complaint.  His rant will will be only one
of many I am collecting.  It appears that others feel this usenet art
ought to be collected too, and there is a rant collection on
ftp.uu.net (which I have not yet seen).

Perhaps you are spending too much time in front of terminal, and do
not realize the the term "rant" does not always have a perjorative
connotation. In particular, the recent performances of Eric Bogosian
(_Sex, Drugs, and Rock & Roll), Spaulding Gray (_Swimming to
Cambodia_), and Lilly Tomlin (_Intelligent Life in the Universe_) have
all been described as "rants" by their admirers.

What with the CDROM recording of network news, _everything_ posted
will be easily accessible to everyone for the forseeable future.
I look forward to reading what I have posted in the past, however
I may have changed. If you can't see it that way, don't post,
as all you say is being recorded, even as we speak. As Eric Bogosian says 
in the final rant of SDRR, "they're [computers] talking about you, and 
they're talking about me."

Cheers, Andy

--
-
Andrew V. Purshottam      /\     |  andy@autodesk.com  ...!fernwood!acad!andy 
Autodesk, Inc.	         //\\    |  (415)332-2344x2161  FAX (415) 331-8093
2320 Marinship Way      ///\\\   |  Sausalito CA 94965
"The views expressed are those of the speaker."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Keeping in mind that this is AmeriKKKa
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:31:33 GMT
	<1992Jul24.053047.272@mumbo.apple.com>
	<1992Jul24.141934.8674@nynexst.com>
Distribution: na
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science


   > clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
   How about this?

   >|>Work with whomever you want to         -- male, female
   >|>Make friends with whomever you want to -- male, female
   >|>Have lovers with whomever you want to  -- male, female
   >|>But marry                              -- male, female

   Gary, is it sexist to prefer mates of a specific sex?
   I'll bet 99% of this group doesn't have the above personal "chart".

For what it's worth, that's my "chart".  I don't pretend to know how
many people in the group share it.

   From all the discussions here I think everyone is sexist
   since they prefer mates of a certain sex.  

Well, you could go further and say that most of the discussions here
assume that everyone's interested in a mate of the opposite sex.  This
is true, and it bothers me a little; but life is too short to pursue
every little injustice or foolishness on the net.  And Lord knows that
this group has enough flames without starting the perennial
gays-versus-gay-bashers war here.

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (So Confused)
Subject: Dear Abby...
Summary: Help me
Keywords: so confused
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com (So Confused)
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 06:30:04 GMT

[Note:  This is *NOT* the first draft in question I was talking about in my
 last post.  :-) ]

Dear Abby:

I am an Asian American person who read your column the other day about the
"Where are you from?" question posed to an Asian American man.  And some
other Asian American people and I got into a discussion about it.  At first,
I had thought the Asian American man in your example was being a bit coy and
perhaps even a slight bit rude in answering the question as he did.  After
all, someone like myself who believes in being ever-so-polite to people of
all races, particularly Caucasians [cough, cough, excuse me Abby!!] found his
answer rather unacceptable.  However, after talking to those three other
people, I am rather convinced that the proper answer to the woman's question
was indeed "Cincinnati," if that is indeed where the fellow was from.  Not to
mention, the woman in question might simply have been asking where he was from
rather than his ethnicity.  This is all getting very confusing, and I am not
a mind reader!  Abby, how can I reconcile my desire not to offend the asker
of the question (and thus, possibly avert a race war) with my honest attempt
to answer the question as accurately as possible?  Not to mention, I still
want to satisfy the person who asked!  After all, I come from Texas and
California as well as from Korea.  Which one do they mean?

If you don't mind, please don't reveal my real name.  I want very much to
preserve my anonymity, and I would be very embarrassed if people who knew me
found out that I am writing to you!!

I am so confused!!  It's getting to the point where I'm scared to death of
that question ever being asked of me again!  Help!!!

So Confused in Austin

[p.s. To the rest of you: I'm lobbing you a straight line if there ever was
      one.  Whoever you are, don't drop the ball on this.  :-) ]
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Dual Citizenship (Was: Korean Views on Race)
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: Curious Goods (formerly Louis Vendredi Antiques)
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 21:51:58 GMT

ahsiung@labs-n.bbn.com (Anita Hsiung) writes:
>Mike Fester writes:
>>
>>The US DOES in fact recognize dual citizenship, if the other nation 
>>recognizes it as well. 
>
>The United States does not recognize dual citizenship.  It is stated
>very clearly when you apply for naturalization that you give up all
>privileges and rights you had from your country of origin.  They
>emphasize that again at the actual oath-taking.

*Americans* can claim foreign citizenships that come to them by merit
of ancestry IF there is no renunciation necessary ... people becoming
Americans must renounce all past affiliations in the naturalization
process.  Blanket rejection of dual citizenship was struck down ~25
years ago, and this unidirectional situation came about.  Rich Wales,
who does not hang around in here, has a detailed FAQ that is passed
around USENET and maybe someone who archived it can paste it up here.

By the way, Rich has announced publicly in Soc.culture.canada that his
application to immigrate to Canada is successful and will probably take
the path to obtaining Canadian citizenship since you don't renounce any
past ties when getting it.  Also, the New York Times has had articles
about Americans claiming Irish passports due to ancestry, and working
in the EC as a result.  Either Ireland removed renunciation or made an
exemption for people claiming citizenship on grounds of ancestry rather
than naturalization.

Of course, there is also citizenship by birth on this soil, at least
for Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the U.S.  Multiple citizenships
can arise from this; if we have kids in America, they'll be American-
Canadian-German and if the Germans still have National Service for
males, my son(s?) might have to drop their EC passports or maybe lose
their American citizenship (I'm *not* clear on voluntary service in a
foreign military ... I think that American Jews in the Israeli Defence
Forces are okay since there's no war with Israel, and there was a guy
from Chicago who got forcibly drafted into the Iraqi Army when he got
caught in Baghdad while visiting his grandparents ... luckily, he was
able to crawl across a minefield to American lines, surrender, get his
story clear, and then serve as a translator -- no problems).

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare				Elections 1992-93:
> gld@cunixB.cc.columbia.EDU		* Jean Chretien (Canada)
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			* Perot^H^H^H^H^H Elvis! (USA)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gwu@nujoizey.tcs.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re: There's racism, and then there's RACISM (was Re: Racial preferences in choosing your mate)
Keywords: racism
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 02:23:11 GMT

In article <BruMs0.7B0@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>, lchsu@cayley.waterloo.edu (Leon C. Hsu) writes:
> 
> I can't think of a good word for the other kinds of things
> that some people call racism. For example, If I say I think
> such-and-such a ethnic group are all some-bad-thing, then 
> that makes me a ...

     ... bigot, ie. a person with prejudice against another person.

     I don't think the distinction lies in how many people a person's
bias is against, but rather the degree of hatred and involved.  From worst
to less than good, my scale might be:

	o Racism - reeking hatred, as the KKK and Nazi Party do;

	o Bigotry, - a deep belief without factual basis that a group of
	  people all have a particular characteristic which makes them
	  inferior in some way, as a belief that all Jews are very
	  money-grasping or all Chinese-cu are barbaric (Prejudice seems
	  to be the same as bigotry.  Or maybe this is prejudice and
	  bigotry and racism are similar, differing only according to
	  the number of people against which the term applies.);

	o Bias - holding a stereotype, but not one necessarily by itself
	  detrimental to the group [*], ie. Asians are smart;

	o Ignorance - merely parroting a common stereotype without
	  actually having realized such us a sterotype.  Hopefully a merely
	  ignorant person can be shown the error of his/her ways just by
	  explaining the misinformation the person is inadvertantly
	  propagating.


[*] I want to qualify "detrimental."  I think most SCAA readers are
sufficiently familiar with this topic to realize any sterotype, even a
"positive" one, leaves the door open to negative stereotypes.  If it's
possible that a "good," blanket statement can be true about a group of
people, then it's possible a bad one can too.

							George

----
George J Wu, Software Engineer         | gwu@tcs.com or uunet!tcs!gwu
Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc. | (510) 649-3700
2121 Allston Way, Berkeley, CA, 94704  | Never be the first to believe . . .
From: edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Doonesbury this week
Date: 30 Jul 92 02:15:58 GMT
Organization: The RAND Corporation

Declining academic standards has been a recurrent theme in Doonesbury,
even before it became a political football.

Pointing out that Asian academic success is the result of nothing more
than good old-fashioned studying helps to de-mystify something that
many people accept as a statistical fact. (Call it a stereotype if you
like.) The more pernicious stereotype--that there is something
fundamentally "different" about Asians--gets a rather forceful
skewering in these strips.

So I see the strips as an overall positive thing.  True, they use a
well-known stereotype.  But they undercut the more racist overtones of
that stereotype, and provide an important message (on academic effort)
as well.

		-Ed Hall
		edhall@rand.org
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: kemnitz@netcom.com (Greg Kemnitz)
Subject: Re: Asking someone his "nationality" (Today's "Dear Abby")
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 21:55:53 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: na

In article <1992Jul27.183750.4036@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>Being an engineering oriented school, we had a lot of foreign students, 
>particularly Iranian and Nigerian. I got to be quite good friends with several
>Nigerians and we'd often do homework together. One day, one of my friends said
>to me "You know, it is SO hard to tell you white people apart. [rest deleted]

This reminds me of a story I heard a few years ago.  There was a murder in a
hotel in Sacramento, and the only witness was a housekeeper from China who
couldn't speak English.  The police brought in an interpreter, who tried to
get her to describe the murderer, and she said he was "white".  When the 
interpreter asked for more clarification, she said "all white people look
alike"...

>Mike

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Kemnitz                        | "I ran out of the room - I
MultiMedia Information Systems Inc. | didn't want to be killed by a pile
kemnitz@netcom.com                  | of VMS manuals" :-)
                                    |
                                    | --A friend at DEC Palo Alto in the Quake
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: Pencil-twirling (was Re: Self-examination)
Keywords: pencil-twirling
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 21:42:52 GMT

In article <156i6pINNo5k@agate.berkeley.edu> jtchern@ocf.berkeley.edu (Joseph Hernandez) writes:
>[Hoyt Sze writes from his article:]
>   If there's one talent of which we Asian Americans can boast--exceeding 
>even our abilities to play ping-pong, twirl pencils or develop profound guilt 
                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Do Chinese-ge kids at Cal still do this?  One of my many memories of Cal is
the way some of those kids knew how to twirl those damn pencils in their hand
like that.  I remember it being more of a "Chinese thing" than an "Asian
thing," but I may be wrong.  I thought it was the neatest thing.  Never
learned how to do it, though.

Anybody know who "started" it and if anybody else other than Cal kids do it?
*Why* would anybody do it?  :-)  If anybody knows how to do it (meaning twirl
a pen/pencil in your hand), give me an e-mail and tell me how long you had to
"practice."

As this is probably not a terribly relevant issue for this newsgroup, I
guess I should request e-mail replies to me rather than posted replies.

Thanks,

Jim