HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lmlc@brahms.udel.edu (Carolyn M Chandler)
Subject: Wanted: Genesis stuff....
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 19:50:11 GMT


OK i am looking for a Genesis live video that i was told about a bit
back...
If anyone knows about this or has it e-mail me...

also I am looking for original Genesis albums from pre 1976....

also any other genesis stuff on cd...

-morgan
Xref: sparky rec.music.marketplace:2814 rec.music.makers:11614 ga.forsale:902
From: Jim.Greenlee@cc.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.marketplace,rec.music.makers,ga.forsale
Subject: FOR SALE: Fender Rhodes 73
Date: 28 Dec 92 03:54:21 GMT
Reply-To: jkg@prism.gatech.edu
Followup-To: rec.music.marketplace
Distribution: ga
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Fender Rhodes Mark I 73-key stage piano w/ road case -
	Purchased new in 1979. This piano is in *mint* condition -
	Never gigged, never out of my house - always handled with
	kid gloves. I have the original shipping box, documentation,
	and 5 or 6 replacement tines.

	Asking $300 - I will deliver within 50 miles of Atlanta.

--
Jim Greenlee (jkg@cc.gatech.edu)	Jryy abj lbh'ir tbar naq qbar vg!
Instructor, College of Computing	Whfg unq gb xrrc svqqyvat jvgu vg
Georgia Tech, Atlanta, GA 30332		hagvy lbh oebxr vg, qvqa'g lbh ?!
Xref: sparky rec.music.marketplace:2843 alt.rock-n-roll:19711
From: tominatr@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.music.marketplace,alt.rock-n-roll
Subject: IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND: Soundtrack wanted...
Date: 30 Dec 92 11:08:56 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

WANTED:

If ANYBODY has the Private School Soundtrack on LP or Cassette, PLEASE e-mail
me.  I'll definitely buy it.

This is the movie with Phoebe Cates in it.

Thanks,

        - Tom N.

Newsgroups: rec.music.marketplace
From: kr11615@medtronic.COM (Kent Roessler)
Subject: WANTED:Elton John B-siders
Organization: Medtronic, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 20:11:00 GMT

Interested in any info about elton john singles and the flip sides
that never made it to an album.


Thanks in advance


Kent
From: silbrmnd@acf3.nyu.edu (Darkmage)
Newsgroups: rec.music.marketplace
Subject: Looking for a MIDI keyboard...
Date: 27 Dec 92 01:34:26 GMT
Organization: New York University

Hi, I'm interested in buying a MIDI keyboard, I have a Casio
SK200 if any1 wants to trade...

Email: silbrmnd@acf3.nyu.edu
       des0699@acf.nyu.edu

Snail mail: D. Silberman
	    1388 E. 24th st.
            Brooklyn, NY     11210

	    (718) 692-3823
Newsgroups: rec.music.marketplace
From: lmlc@brahms.udel.edu (Carolyn M Chandler)
Subject: Re: Various CD's WANTED...
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 01:31:08 GMT


I am looking for the first three big black albums or Hammer party....

-morgan
Newsgroups: rec.music.marketplace
From: peggy@cc.gatech.edu (Margaret Simpson)
Subject: Re: FOR SALE: Portable CD Player, CDs
Reply-To: peggy@cc.gatech.edu (Margaret Simpson)
Organization: College of Computing, Georgia Institute of Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 15:04:30 GMT

In article <78838@hydra.gatech.EDU> jkg@prism.gatech.edu writes:
>Kenwood DPC 521 portable CD player -
>
>	Asking $175 (price includes COD ground shipping in US)
>

Price inludes COD shipping?????  This sounds like something
I'd expect from Ed McMahon!

	-- Peggy



   ___(_)              |\    /|  ----  ----  |                ._.___   
 /( _ ,U -| moo!       | \  / |  |  |  |  |  |                 U. _ }  
  || ||                |  \/  |  ----  ----  o                  || ||  
From: mic@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Clarke)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:07:58 GMT
Subject: Re: Problem with Finale (PC) and Deskjet ! Help !
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Ft. Collins, CO
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose

You need to use Adobe Type Manager.
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: academia, power, priveledge...
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:25:29 GMT


Uh, yeah, uhhhhmmmm....

Very few folks outside of academia these days have even heard of Ockeghem,
much less longed to master his style.

Since I don't believe in Composition After Death, I'll continue making some
of the little compromises (like working, and voting FOR social services) that
make it easier for me to continue composing and living.

The most priveledged living "classical" composer I can think of is Colin
Nancarrow (of the many player pianos), who, if rusty, unreliable memory
serves correctly, won a great big prize that supports him and his art FOR
LIFE outside of academia, and who retired to Mexico City to pursue whatever
kind of automated ear-tickling monkeyshines he wants, with neither academic
affiliation nor commercial concerns  (Of course, I've probably botched this
one, so will somebody please fill us in on the correct details).

I value musical academia as a valuable route to teaching and learning,
which I think is one of the few chances classical art forms have to
market themselves.  This has nothing to do with priveledges and
impositions.  Hey, you don't like how it's done in the academy?
Reclaim the academy!  Feminists have been saying that since at latest
1919.

Matt Fields
From: xxrich@alliant1.lerc.nasa.gov (Rich Rinehart)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: How does one compose?
Date: 21 Dec 92 13:55:42 GMT
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center

In article <o591VB1w165w@dorsai.com> idealord@dorsai.com (Jeff Harrington) writes:
>bil@cmn14.Stanford.EDU (Bill Schottstaedt) writes:
>
[stuff deleted]
>again.  But don't ever ever ever settle for kissing the butts of these 
>egomanical rent-paying academic control freaks who have sucked our 
>culture dry.  It's their fault the public is not interested in new music. 
> They were too damn busy "advancing our musical culture" to pay attention 
>to the listener.  Now we've got real problems.  No one goes to new music 
>concerts, no one but their fellow mutant ninja tenureds, unless its one 
>of those godawful pop/rock/minimalist concerts.  

A bit abrasive but I agree with you.  How many pieces will be written
according to a *innovated* mathematical pattern or fomula?  How many to a
reocuuring bit-pattern of semi-tonal hogwash?  Or maybe something composed 
under a perceived relationship or influence of the lunar gravitational pull
on Iowa?  (graduate students take note).  Yes, they may be interesting
theoretically.  But who cares?  Does it SOUND GOOD???

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rich Rinehart                  |     phone: 216-433-5211
NASA Lewis Research Center     |     email: xxrich@alliant1.lerc.nasa.gov
Cleveland, OH                  | He who has imagination without learning
                               | has wings but no feet.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rpeck@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (robert william peck)
Subject: Re: Concert pitch frequencies
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 16:28:07 GMT

>Would any readers out there have a listing in Hz from concert
>middle C to C in the G clef.
>
The chromatic scale (in equal temperment) from C4 to C5 is following:

C_4   261.6   (middle C)
C+4   277.1   (+ = sharp, - = flat, _ = natural)
D_4   293.6
E-4   311.1 
E_4   329.6 
F_4   349.2 
F+4   369.9 
G_4   391.9 
G+4   415.3 
A_4   440.0 
B-4   466.1 
B_4   493.8 
C_5   523.2 

Hope this list helps you, e-mail if you need a more accurate one (e.g.
i.nnnnnn).

--Bob


Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: another FTP site
Keywords: gems
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 14:17:18 GMT

As posted elsewhere (would you folks please repost?) the GEMS series of
articles (introduction and 1-4) have been archived for anonymous FTP at
sites in St. Louis, Missouri, USA and in Denmark.

I have just been notified that these same files are also now available through
the anonymous FTP site
ftp.hyperion.com
in the directory
pub/gems
 ...

Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: stefan@sinus.stgt.sub.org (Stefan Bechtold)
Subject: Re: academia, power, priveledge...
Organization: Sinus Stuttgart, Germany
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:53:44 GMT

fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes:

>Two comments here.  First, I believe strongly that composition CAN be
>taught, but the cultural category of "greatness" can't be taught.  If
>there were nothing that could be taught about composition then it
	    ^^^^^^^

I don't think that composition can be taught, but *something* about
composition can be taught.

>would be kind of funny to have this newsgroup, unless every posting
>announced composers' contests.  Composition can be taught because so
>many nifty ideas have already been worked out by composers of the
>past, and so many of these ideas are fluid enough to be adaptable to

But is that all ? You learn, e.g., how to write a Bach-style fugue
and then you can composer and are a composer ? 

>individual types of expression.  Raw creativity is very tricky to
>elicit, although sometimes you encounter a student who is fairly
>bristling with creativity but just lacks the confidence or nerve to
>try it out, and instead keeps trying to stick to straight-arrow
>rule-based systems or whatever---and in that case a teacher CAN
>encourage the student to take advantage of their innate creativity,
>which still doesn't say that creativity can be taught.  Compositional
Yes.
>craft and technique can be taught.  The situation is similar in

Yes, composition technique can be taught, but not composition !
If you have learned only the techniques you are not a composer 
(similar in other arts, as you said).


Stefan
-- 
+ Stefan Bechtold # stefanb@delos.stgt.sub.org # Voice +49 711 813240 +
++++++++sed nemo potuit tangere: merda fuit ! (Martial III 17)+++++++++

Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: rmc@wang.com (rmc)
Subject: Re: Regarding the Questionable use of the Word -> Advance
Organization: Wang Laboratories, Inc.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:05:51 GMT

idealord@dorsai.com (Jeff Harrington) asks:

> I would just like to briefly mention my interpretation of the discussion 
> of "Advances in Music Composition" as being biased towards a teleological 
> interpretation of music history.  Where are we going, people?  
 
> I still feel that the late string quartets of Beethoven are
> infinitely more "advanced" regarding real human musical expression than
> anything I've heard from this century.  (Bach's Art of Fugue, too).

1)  I find the Bartok quartets "speak more to me" than the Beethoven
quartets.  Last i looked, they were from this century.

2)  I find that the various pieces by George Crumb setting the Lorca
poems to music far more sophisticated in their "real human expression"
than the entire corpus of Beethoven's vocal music and the Italian
operatic composers, combined.  Maybe even just "Night of the Four
Moons" all by itself.  (Although then one should ask the question "Why
'Night of the Four Moons' and not Ravel's 'Chassons de Medecai'
(sp?)?").  Last i heard, George Crumb was alive and still composing.

3)  When i posted things i thought were possible advances on
composition technique, i included techniques by Crumb and Wuorinen
that were simplifications rather than complications.  Face it, some of
us find the chordal progressions an uninspiring way to structure a
piece.  Not just "academic composers", but "listeners" as well.  For
chamber music, the contemporary groups in Boston seem more active and
well received than either the classical or early music chamber groups.
(Symbponic music is still the BSO, whose fully classical concerts are
better received than the mixed contemporary and classical concerts).

4)  Go talk to Gunter Schuller some day about the problem of academic
support for composers - he has some ideas on alternate funding.  As
does Milton Babbit for that matter.

R Mark Chilenskas
rmc@wang.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: Re: academia, power, priveledge...
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 16:59:36 GMT

>In article <gXecwB1w165w@dorsai.com> idealord@dorsai.com (Jeff Harrington) writes:
>>BTW, Bach and Mozart (as you stated in a previous post) did make a living 
>>writing music.  BUT!!! when you teach at a university you're getting paid 
>>to _teach_ not write.  

An interesting case that fits in the middle here is Bill Bolcolm, prof here
at Michigan, who just had 9 sold-out performances of a new opera at the
Lyric in Chicago.

Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: Brother, Can You Spare a Tone
Date: 31 Dec 92 10:20:12 GMT

Matthew Fields writes:

>My guess is there's no tone row in this piece. The composer may have just
>put the irrelevent material (tooth-jarring is great if the piece leads
>you to it naturally) there just as a stylish thing to do or as a way to
>pacify somebody or pretend that they're not writing tonal music.

Well, I may be misremembering the details of the explanation, but the tone
row was listed in the program.  (This concert was mostly a dud.  The
next piece on the program was the Bach triple "piano" concerto in C [i.e.,
the harpsechord concerto played using pianos-- it works quite well that way,
actually, as attested to by an old recording I have featuring the whole
Casedesus family], and went mostly to show that Rostopovich can't conduct a
baroque piece to save his soul.)

>My only comment on the state of choral music is that madrigal groups
>and Canadian professonal choirs have always been more adventurous than
>US amateur religious choirs.  The works of Jacques Desjardins come to mind
>(Hi, Jacques, you out there?)

Well, the religious choir does have to sing to an end (namely, their place
in the liturgy), which limits how "adventurous" they can really be and do
their job-- especially where "adventurous" means "shocking the bourgeous".
As to your point about other groups, it is well taken.
-- 
C. Wingate        + "The peace of God, it is no peace,
                  +    but strife closed in the sod.
mangoe@cs.umd.edu +  Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing:
tove!mangoe       +    the marv'lous peace of God."
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: Re: Carping and Per Diem
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:47:41 GMT

In article <2csJwB3w165w@dorsai.com> idealord@dorsai.com (Jeff Harrington) writes:
>Oh, btw, you should ask Matt Fields about UM in Ann Arbor, I don't think 
>there's a better graduate composition department better anywhere...

Composition, yes.  For electronic music, go to Stanford. For a taste of
both, uhm, maybe Brooklyn?

BTW I've already expressed my opinion that the U system is only one of a
large number of chaotic forces involved in the marketing of music in
categories, and the loss of a market share for all of classical music,
not just new compositions.


Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: Re: academia, power, priveledge...
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 02:22:57 GMT

In article <kN7JwB1w165w@dorsai.com> idealord@dorsai.com (Jeff Harrington) writes:

>I would love it if everyone was a mediocre composer!  Bad melodies, no 
                insertion       ^at least  

Everybody, even your Aunt Betty in Nebraska (no offense to Nebraska composers
named Betty).

>form.  The more music we get written the bigger the chance that someone 
>great will come along.  I mean music for music's sake, of course, not 
>meant to impress a tenure committee or the Perspectives of New Music 
>editorial staff ;-).  
Nor for impressing the marketing staff at Rainbow Records or the
Jellyworks.
From: bl562@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gary P Gabriel)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Computer-Aided Instruction - Keyboards
Date: 22 Dec 1992 21:23:00 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu



Although it is a long way from composition, it is a start.  I have a
friend that bought a Yamaha keyboard and would like to learn to play
it using the computer (i.e. MIDI) as his teacher.  This is in the 
spirit of "The Miracle".  Can anyone suggest a software package (or
a MIDAS/software combo ?

If not,  can you tell what news group I should be looking in ?

Thanks !

-- 
Gary Gabriel    bl562@cleveland.freenet.edu
                Any meaning you find to life is a memory glitch !
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: idealord@dorsai.com (Jeff Harrington)
Subject: Re: academia, power, priveledge...
Organization: The Dorsai Embassy, New York's Computer Consulate. +1.718.729.5018
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 14:47:15 GMT

fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes:
> 
> Since I don't believe in Composition After Death, I'll continue making some
I think it's called "decomposition" :-)
 
> 
> The most priveledged living "classical" composer I can think of is Colin
> Nancarrow (of the many player pianos), who, if rusty, unreliable memory
> serves correctly, won a great big prize that supports him and his art FOR
> LIFE outside of academia, and who retired to Mexico City to pursue whatever
 
Conlon Nancarrow, chased out of the U.S. for his actions in Spain (with 
Hemingway) against fascism took a risk no one employed by a university 
composer factory today would.  He risked the complete loss of his works 
by moving to Mexico City.  Few people remembered him in the '70's when he 
was rediscovered and several field recordings were made.  Those piano 
rolls were supposedly getting pretty flaky (no pun intended).  
 
His recent acclaim with the MacArthur prize is one of the few times I 
feel the MacArthur prize was justified.  (Take a look at the other 
winners what a joke!).  
 
> I value musical academia as a valuable route to teaching and learning,
> which I think is one of the few chances classical art forms have to
> market themselves.  This has nothing to do with priveledges and
> impositions.  Hey, you don't like how it's done in the academy?
> Reclaim the academy!  Feminists have been saying that since at latest
> 1919.
> 
> Matt Fields

No thanks, I'm too busy writing music.  Funny, most of my friends who are 
employed by the _academy_ (this is laughable btw, universities are more 
like factories for composers then academies) say they don't have enough
time to compose.  Too many meetings.  Matt, wake up man, you really want 
a one year contract to teach beginning theory at Podunk University?  
Floating around with one year contracts is not the life for me.  I want 
to live in NY and luckily :-) there's no teaching jobs here or I might be 
tempted - NOT!!!
 
BTW, Bach and Mozart (as you stated in a previous post) did make a living 
writing music.  BUT!!! when you teach at a university you're getting paid 
to _teach_ not write.  
 
Then, (here it gets good) your teaching and your writing are judged by
thieves who pray nightly that a real musician would never come their way 
and spot  their ruse.  Bach and Mozart wrote music which was judged by 
intelligent, cultured music lovers.  I'm sorry, this ain't the case no 
more.  
 
Matt, sorry to get personal, but, I've heard your music and you're a good 
composer!  You don't have a f*cking chance in academia....
 

Jeff Harrington      
IdEAL ORDER               
idealord@dorsai.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: silver.e@zooid.guild.org (Eric Silver)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: Concert pitch frequencies
Date:  3 Jan 93 02:13:09 GMT

From: rpeck@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (robert william peck)
>>Would any readers out there have a listing in Hz from concert
>>middle C to C in the G clef.
>>
>The chromatic scale (in equal temperment) from C4 to C5 is following:
>
>C_4   261.6   (middle C)
>C+4   277.1   (+ = sharp, - = flat, _ = natural)
>D_4   293.6
>E-4   311.1 
>E_4   329.6 
>F_4   349.2 
>F+4   369.9 
>G_4   391.9 
>G+4   415.3 
>A_4   440.0 
>B-4   466.1 
>B_4   493.8 
>C_5   523.2 
>
>Hope this list helps you, e-mail if you need a more accurate one (e.g.
>i.nnnnnn).
>
>--Bob
>
>

Thank you,
The above is excellent for the purposes I had in mind.
Thanks again,

Eric Silver - York, Upper Canada.
"Legitimize dissent in Canada!"


Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fullerto@tortoise.cis.ohio-state.edu (timothy dwight fullerton)
Subject: Re: Carping and Per Diem
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 18:59:57 GMT

In article <2csJwB3w165w@dorsai.com> idealord@dorsai.com (Jeff Harrington) writes:

>
>I find this a bit naive.  Pop musicians are interested in becoming 
>"popular" and in making "money."


	Well, I would argue that it is prejudiced to assume that all pop 
musicians are in it for the money. Certainly SOME are; Madonna freely 
admits it and writes little or none of her own material. Others have 
little or no realistic expectation of it even paying for itself, but 
write and play because they love it and feel the need to express what 
they have to offer -- for example, myself.


>  Come on, get real!  Composers who 
>create music which is intended to please their mentors or who are trying 
>to impress a tenure committee are just as phony.  

	I proudly stand beside you in ridiculing sycophants. I reiterate, 
though, that not everyone is like that.


> 
>Give me a break.  The reason that the public doesn't go to contemporary 
>concerts (remember the riots at the Rite of Spring premiere, everyone 
>used to go that was a classical music lover) is because they've been 
>scared away by music which was written in the name of "progress."  This 
>is not a immature opinion - it's a fact.  You should check out the 
>anti-new music postings in rec.music.classical for a taste of how our 
>culture's support for the university patronage system has _destroyed_ 
>interest in new music - except, of course, new music which is really rock 
>music.

	I would attribute that more to the emergence of other forms of 
high fidelity media. I argue that fewer people go to classical music 
concerts of ANY kind now. In most of the cities I have been the 
classical music performance industry came no where near to supporting 
itself. Hell, I don't go very often. It can be hot, stuffy, and 
uncomfortable being rammed into a tiny seat in a suit for four hours, 
and ticket prices can be way too high (Depending on where you live...I 
know in L.A. you can buy a ticket to the Hollywood Bowl for $5, sit on a 
bleacher, and dress however you want -- ooh that was the life). If there 
is the slightest risk that I don't like what will be played there is no 
way in hell that I will go and subject myself to that. I will buy a tape 
though, or watch the Met on TV. What alternative high fidelity media 
were available as cultural entertainment when the Rite of Spring was 
premiered.

	Just because people don't go to concerts, or those that do go 
don't like what is played at the time, doesn't mean that the composer is 
not making a contribution to -- or as you seem to assert, undermining 
the progress of -- art. (S)he may or may not be. Time will tell, not 
attendance at the premiere.

	For example, The Rite of Spring is played on the radio here 
regularly.

	I must admit that I am not subscribed to Rec.music.classical. 
Thank you for pointing it out. I will investigate those arguments.

	Happy Holidays

		Tim

Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
From: fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields)
Subject: Re: Carping and Per Diem
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 12:54:11 GMT


ok, ok, i admit it, I'm addicted to Bach's Art of Fugue and Schoenberg's
Piano Concerto!