HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: raj@gdstech.grumman.com (Rajesh Chawla)
Subject: Using gcc as a base for a product
Organization: GRUMMAN DATA SYSTEMS
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 20:15:57 GMT

Hi,

I want to create and market a product that is based on gcc.  I plan to
modify gcc source for the product.  Then I plan to provide the
source for gcc available on request and to include a copy of the
COPYING file found in the gcc-2.0 delivery. 

Is there anything more that I need to do to use gcc as a base for my
product?


Thanks 
-- 
==================================================================
Rajesh Chawla				2411 Dulles Corner Park
E-Mail:  raj@gdstech.grumman.com	Suite 500
Phone:	(703) 713-4170	FAX: 713-4103	Herndon VA 22071
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
From: S_TITZ@iravcl.ira.uka.de (Olaf Titz)
Subject: Re: "official" FSF position on apple
Organization: Fachschaft Informatik, Uni Karlsruhe
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:02:09 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.23

In <H.ea.vYTmPkf3y_6@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca> jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca writes:

>  In <1992Oct5.182842.16054@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de> S_TITZ@iravcl.ira.uka.de (Olaf Titz) writes:
>  
>  >I agree that those {Amiga,Atari} Mac emulators based on 64k Mac Plus
>  >ROMs make no sense today. (And I think a real Mac Classic with 9"
>  >peephole doesn't either.)
>  
>      Actually, the Atari emulator, and I beleive the Amiga emulator as well,
>  use the 128k roms. 

When those emulators first came up, they used 64k ROMs while the state
of the art at Apple's was 128k. Now they're using the 128k ones (long
after Apple introduced them), and Apple has 256-512k. (Not the size
really matters, but what is inside, of course :-)

>  Apple has made the 256k rom set impossible to obtain, 
>  as ayone who wants to upgrade has to turn in their old roms, which the
>  dealers must return to Apple, and Apple will cut off any dealer selling
>  the 256k roms without obtaining a trade-in set. Which is exactly the issue

Exactly that did they with the old ones as well, but apparently the
turn-in process got screwed up one time, and some (much!) leaked out.
The reason was three upgrades closely following each other. The first
64k emulators had to use ROMs that were (at least apparently) illegaly
copied. (Here in Germany, the emulators got shipped with no ROMs but
the documentation told addresses in Luxemburg and the Netherlands
where you could get them.)

>  that started this thread. Apple obviously realises that use of their legal
>  roms to make a clone would endanger their sales, and refuses to allow this 
>  to happen.

They may do that if they want to. After all, they did design and
implement their OS. The problem is if someone *redesigns* the software
and makes a Mac-compatible machine, Apple will surely sue him. And
that is the problem IMHO: Our freedom to design software is challenged
when someone forbids us to make programs that look like his own ones.

Remember when the first IBM clones came out: Any company that sold PCs
with bootlegged IBM BIOSes would surely get sued by IBM. Who just
built IBM-like hardware and equipped it with own BIOSes could do that.
Redesigning BIOSes after IBMs originals has become a major business
today. AMI and Phoenix are companies that make their living from
IBM-lookalike software redesigning, but not from copying IBMs code.
Now imagine AMI redesigning the Macintosh ROMS ;-)


MfG,
        Olaf
-- 
    o     Olaf Titz - comp.sc.student - univ of karlsruhe - germany
 _ /<_    s_titz@iravcl.ira.uka.de - uknf@dkauni2.bitnet - praetorius@irc
(_)>(_)   +49-721-60439 - did i forget something?
Wenn Sie trockenen Wein m"ogen und haben nur zwei halbtrockene,
 sch"utten Sie die zusammen, das ist dann ganz trocken.
 - Thomas Gottschalk
From: ingwa@isy.liu.se (Inge Wallin)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Commercial RCS
Date: 16 Oct 92 09:46:39 GMT
Organization: Dept of EE, University of Linkoping

thf@zelator.in-berlin.de (Thomas Funke) writes:

>In article <1992Oct14.124744.12589@statoil.no> bhso@fou.tr.statoil.no (Bjorn  
>Halvor Solberg) writes:
>> I just saw an ad for a product called MKS RCS. Has anyone heard of it
>> before?  I thought RCS was copylefted under GNU. I don't know if MKS has
>> developed their RCS from scratch or what, I have only seen the ad. It
>> supposedly has the same functionality as GNU's (W.F. Tichy's) RCS. Does
>> anyone know where/what MKS is?
>> 

>For some years they sell it for PC's and now for OS2 and Unix. I believe  
>that's the way to make money from PD/GPL software :-((

Why the :-((? 

 I say: Spread free software as widely as possible.  Those who haven't
got net access can buy it from for-profit organizations/companies.
Soon they will realise the superior quality of (some of the) free
software and will try and find more free software from other sources.
The net is one such source.

>BTW: Does FSF have a good lawyer ?

I assume you mean that distributing free software for money is somehow
illegal.  On the contrary, one of the goals of FSF is to create a
market for service based on free software.  Go read the GNU manifesto
and see the light.   :-) :-)


>-- 
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>Thomas Funke  ** E-mail: thf@zelator.in-berlin.de
>NeXT-Developer * Unix-Consultant
>------------------------------------------------------------------


Inge Wallin
ingwa@isy.liu.se
Dept. of EE
Linkoping University
Sweden
From: maried@hgc.edu (Marie R. Donofrio)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: G++ with System V Header File
Date: 14 Oct 92 19:06:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: merlin.1992Oct14.190649.9241
Organization: The Hartford Graduate Center

I am using version 2.2.2 of gcc for compiling a C++ file that has
calls to System V curses functions.  However, it seems that this
version does not recognize the System V curses functions.  Is
there a newer version of gcc that is compatible with System V
or am I missing something somewhere?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

Marie 
-- 
						Sincerely Yours,
						Marie Donofrio
						Computing Services
From: friedman@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Noah Friedman)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Fortran Is Not Dead, Unfortunately
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:06:56 GMT
Organization: Free Software Foundation, 675 Mass Ave. Cambridge, MA 02139
In-reply-to: thf@zelator.in-berlin.de's message of 13 Oct 92 18:22:22 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.182222.741@gamelan> thf@zelator.in-berlin.de (Thomas Funke) writes:
>> FORTRAN or PASCAL. I do not repeat here what I explained to him why he
>> should take Pascal, I assume you know the arguments ;-) but the fact
>> remains that universities today still offer beginner programming courses
>> in Fortran. Sigh :-(
>
>I believe that's the case only in Germany. Computer science is not very  
>advanced here :-((

   As late as 3 years ago, the University of Texas at Austin in the US
offered introductory courses in Fortran or Pascal.
Xref: sparky gnu.misc.discuss:3284 comp.os.linux:13110 comp.unix.bsd:7237
From: jhelberg@nl.oracle.com (Joost Helberg)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.linux,comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: distributing linux on floppies
Date: 9 Oct 92 15:50:56 GMT
Followup-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Organization: Oracle Europe
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3


adrian@ibmpcug.co.uk (Superuser) writes:
: In article <1992Oct7.164402.29427@uc.msc.edu> fink@et.msc.edu (Paul Fink) writes:
: >
: >I think it might be more appropriate for linux distribution to be done
: >by a user group rather than a for profit company.
: >
: 
: Well, being the systems manager of the IBM PC User Group in Britain,
: I guess I could do it. Could some kind soul out there tell me what
: they would expect from such a distribution. (i.e. number of disks,
: where I can get the images from, etc.)
: 
: This User Group charges 4 UKP per disk normally. Add on top of that

Oops, that is making money, are you a commerial organization?

: VAT (so we dont have to muck around with export charges) at 17.5% and
: postage and packing (i.e. if you are abroad, call for a price first),
: 
: There is a special offer for 386BSD (since it arrives on 40 3.5" disks!)
: of 50 pounds + VAT + postage.
: 

We (Hobby Unix Users group) in The Netherlands do the same.
We charge f1,50 per floppy for members, f2,50 for non-members.

It is very popular (the price is under the normal shop price of a floppy).

And we have a lot of Linux users. We always supply people with a
version 2 or 3 days behind the releases of Linus.

--  
   Joost Helberg                                Rijnzathe 6
   jhelberg@oracle.nl                           NL-3454 PV De Meern
   jhelberg@nl.oracle.com                       The Netherlands

   Oracle Europe BV                             Product Line Development	
   Phone: +31 3406 94211                        Fax:   +31 3406 65609
Xref: sparky gnu.misc.discuss:3251 comp.os.linux:12738 comp.unix.bsd:7017
From: eric@tantalus.nrl.navy.mil (Eric Youngdale)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.linux,comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: Suggestions for the free Unix projects
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:14:23 GMT
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory

In article <1992Oct7.135421.2806@meaddata.com> sdw@meaddata.com (Stephen Williams) writes:
>Does anyone know if the Linux driver knows about the Unix info (gives
>full filenames, deeper directories, etc.)???

	I thought you would never ask :-).  We are talking about the Rock Ridge
extensions to iso9660, and yes the linux filesystem does know about it.  I
borrowed a RR disk from someone, implemented and tested it, and it all works,
at least as much as I have been able to test.  I have not been able to test the
deep directories and the block and character devices because the disk that I
have does not have any of them.  The b/c devices are simple enough that they
will probably work the first time, but I would not bet on the deep directories.
The code is all there, so in principle all it would ever need are bugfixes.

-Eric
-- 
Eric Youngdale
Xref: sparky gnu.misc.discuss:3294 comp.os.linux:13192 comp.unix.bsd:7274
From: lwv26@cas.org (Larry W. Virden)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.linux,comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Why buy a Lotus book (Was: Re: distributing linux on floppies)
Date: 12 Oct 92 15:29:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: cas.1992Oct12.153230.1659
Reply-To: lvirden@cas.org (Larry W. Virden)
Followup-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.linux,comp.unix.bsd
Organization: Nedriv Software and Shoe Shiners, Uninc.



>	The very same thing happens with copyrighted software.  I have seen
>estimates that only 20% of software is actually paid for, and the rest is
>pirate copies.  Everyone knows that it goes on, and nearly everyone does it.
>For example, have you noticed how many Lotus books there are in bookstores?
>Why would anyone who bought Lotus need an additional book?

Perhaps this is true in some markets - I certainly am not familar with
many of the micro environments.  But certainly in the Sun workstation 
environment, we purchase site license agreements which permit the company
to have any n of m number of employees use a package.  But of course, to
buy m copies of the doc is outrageous.  So a limited (perhaps n, perhaps
more) number of doc are purchased and users who want more doc go to the
book store and buy a book.  I know as well that when I am unhappy with the
limited doc available for similar packages on my home micro, I have gone
out and purchased auxilary documentation.
-- 
Larry W. Virden                 UUCP: osu-cis!chemabs!lvirden
Same Mbox: BITNET: lvirden@cas  INET: lvirden@cas.org
Personal: 674 Falls Place,   Reynoldsburg, OH 43068-1614
America Online: lvirden@aol.com
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
From: gumby@Cygnus.COM (David V. Henkel-Wallace)
Subject: Using gcc as a base for a product
Organization: Cygnus Support, Palo Alto, California
Date: 11 Oct 92 10:15:53

   Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 20:15:57 GMT
   From: raj@gdstech.grumman.com (Rajesh Chawla)

   I want to create and market a product that is based on gcc.  I plan to
   modify gcc source for the product.  Then I plan to provide the
   source for gcc available on request and to include a copy of the
   COPYING file found in the gcc-2.0 delivery. 

You're better off (it's a lot easier) to just include the source code
with the product distribution.  You have a lot less record-keeping to
worry about.

   Is there anything more that I need to do to use gcc as a base for my
   product?

Nope.  the source you make available must be the source for the
binaries you distribute (ie to the whole modified gcc).  The licensing
terms for the modified work will be the same as for the gcc with which
you're starting.

Pretty simple, eh?  We do this, and it works great!
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.linux,comp.unix.bsd
From: gregb@murphy.com (Greg Banschbach (Unigroup of New York))
Subject: Re: Suggestions for the free Unix projects
Organization: Murphy & Durieu, NYC NY, USA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 12:38:52 GMT

In article <1al9j6INN9q2@almaak.usc.edu> ajayshah@almaak.usc.edu (Ajay Shah) writes:
>terry@cs.weber.edu (A Wizard of Earth C) writes:
>
>>>There may be a role for a profit-making company to make a $50
>>>shrink-wrapped free Unix with a manual and limited support.
>
>>o	$54 for a boot floppy and tape distribution.
>>o	$66 for a CD ROM distribution.
>>o	$116 for a floppy only distribution.
>>How does $1000 sound?  Like BSDI?
>
>Ok guys: how does Coherent do it?   :-)
>
>There you are -- a Profit making company, with manuals and support,
>floppy distribution (albeit smaller than any of Linux et al), all
>for $100.  They have to even write the OS ;-)
>
>Some say their support ain't great shakes.  I wasn't hoping for more
>than non-800 number help in installation.
>
>        -ans.
>-- 
>Ajay Shah, (213)749-8133, ajayshah@usc.edu

	I just send mail to Terry Lambert about your comments.  Perhaps
	we can figure some things out.   He made some pretty relevant 
	points about the legal aspects ( you could lose your shirt ). 

	Greg (  gregb@murphy.com ) 

	#include  < std.disclaimer >  /*  I did this, NOT them */
From: rwm@atronx.OCUnix.On.Ca (Russell McOrmond)
Date: 11 Oct 92 18:42:53 EST
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Suggestions for the free Unix projects
	<1992Oct4.124453.10061@fcom.cc.utah.edu>

tzs@stein.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes:
>OK, back to our universe.  It's probably too late for anyone to become
>a software billionaire, but suppose FSF operated in a for-profit manner
>for several years, and then switched back to free-mode?  Would the net
>result, say, 20 years from now be better or worse?

  Right.  Here is some similar logic:

  I am a Priest.  I want to build up a need for being 'saved' to I start up
a Satan-Worshiping cult that is bent on destroying all humanity.  In the
'long run' it could save a lot of lives by killing off all the major
weirdo's in the world.

  The whole point of FSF is to prove that it is possible to make money
treating software as a SERVICE rather than as a COMMODITY.  Them 
designing around the 'traditional' meaning of 'For-Profit' makes absolutely
no sence.  "Do as I say, not as I do" only seems to work for T.V. Evangelists.


  BTW: If you are talking about 'for profit' in the SERVICE sence, you should
not that they are already doing this.

>--Tim Smith
--
  Opinions expressed in this message are my Own. I represent nobody else.
  Russell McOrmond  rwm@Atronx.OCUnix.On.Ca Net Support:(613) 230-2282(V.32Bis)
  FidoNet 1:163/109 Welmat Help 1:1/139  Current WELMAT 'keeper of sources'.
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
From: S_TITZ@iravcl.ira.uka.de (Olaf Titz)
Subject: Fortran Is Not Dead, Unfortunately
Organization: Fachschaft Informatik, Uni Karlsruhe
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 19:52:47 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.23

>  As far as an answer to the question "Is Fortran dead?", I can only
>  suggest that if the availability of GNU Fortran doesn't kill it,
>  nothing will!  :-)

Well, just this morning, I was asked for advice by a math student
which of the two beginner programming courses he should take -
FORTRAN or PASCAL. I do not repeat here what I explained to him why he
should take Pascal, I assume you know the arguments ;-) but the fact
remains that universities today still offer beginner programming
courses in Fortran. Sigh :-(

MfG,
        Olaf
-- 
    o     Olaf Titz - comp.sc.student - univ of karlsruhe - germany
 _ /<_    s_titz@iravcl.ira.uka.de - uknf@dkauni2.bitnet - praetorius@irc
(_)>(_)   +49-721-60439 - did i forget something?
There are more things in heaven and on earth, Horatio
 Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.   - Shakespeare
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
From: leisner@wrc.xerox.com ( Marty Leisner)
Subject: ae? -- a profiling tool used with gcc
Reply-To: leisner.henr801c@xerox.com
Organization: Xerox
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 16:04:11 GMT


In the Usenix ;login:, there was talk about ae, a profiling tools used with
gcc.  Where is it?  I looked on prep and couldn't match anything under /pub/gnu/*ae*
(but my connection to prep seemed awfully flakey).

--
marty
leisner.henr801c@xerox.com  
Member of the League for Programming Freedom
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
From: thf@zelator.in-berlin.de (Thomas Funke)
Subject: Re: Commercial RCS
Reply-To: thf@zelator.in-berlin.de (Thomas Funke)
Organization: NNU Corp. - NeXT is Not UN*X
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 22:41:53 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.124744.12589@statoil.no> bhso@fou.tr.statoil.no (Bjorn  
Halvor Solberg) writes:
> I just saw an ad for a product called MKS RCS. Has anyone heard of it
> before?  I thought RCS was copylefted under GNU. I don't know if MKS has
> developed their RCS from scratch or what, I have only seen the ad. It
> supposedly has the same functionality as GNU's (W.F. Tichy's) RCS. Does
> anyone know where/what MKS is?
> 

For some years they sell it for PC's and now for OS2 and Unix. I believe  
that's the way to make money from PD/GPL software :-((

BTW: Does FSF have a good lawyer ?

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Funke  ** E-mail: thf@zelator.in-berlin.de
NeXT-Developer * Unix-Consultant
------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.linux,comp.unix.bsd
From: terry@cs.weber.edu (A Wizard of Earth C)
Subject: Re: Suggestions for the free Unix projects
Organization: Weber State University  (Ogden, UT)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 01:06:26 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.135421.2806@meaddata.com> sdw@meaddata.com (Stephen Williams) writes:
>terry@cs.weber.edu (A Wizard of Earth C) writes:
>: Per CD cost:		$	    25.10
>: Assume high "one off":	$	    26.00
>: 
>: This all assumes that there is no production loss and the "+" on the $20,000
>: means "and some cents".
>WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>You totally misunderstood!!!!!!
>
>1,500 for the first 100 IS THE TOTAL COST!!!! for a service firm to do
>it.
>
>Noone would ever actually buy the mastering system!!!  I just added
>the costs for curiosity out there.

Oh.  Well.  That's very different.  Never mind.

8-).

Actually, the media production costs aren't what kills you; it's the
overhead involved in writing, typesetting, and publishing a manual,
the support, and expected legal battles.  Especially the last.  Ignoring
the legal stuff, you *might* be able to be profitable at about $400 per,
regardless of the distribution media.


					Terry Lambert
					terry@icarus.weber.edu
					terry_lambert@novell.com
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        "I have an 8 user poetic license" - me
 Get the 386bsd FAQ from agate.berkeley.edu:/pub/386BSD/386bsd-0.1/unofficial
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky gnu.misc.discuss:3255 comp.sys.mac.advocacy:1300
From: derek@cgrg.ohio-state.edu (Dariusz Bolski)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: "official" FSF position on apple
Date: 7 Oct 92 22:29:29 GMT
Organization: OSU Advanced Computing Center for the Arts and Design

In article <CKD.92Oct6205053@loiosh.eff.org> ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis) writes:
>DB> == Dariusz Bolski <derek@cgrg.ohio-state.edu> 
>
> DB> This is really interesting. First I hear from many people that Mac
> DB> is a viable platform even in b/w (color is available for the Mac
> DB> for not so long) and then I hear that this machine is not worth
> DB> anything.
>
>The Plus is an old 68000 machine.  It's not the monochrome that makes
>the difference, it's the age and the processor.  As an example of a
>newer, more powerful Mac in the same basic form factor, look at an SE/30
>or Classic II; faster processors, more room for RAM, internal hard
>drives (another thing the Plus lacked), more stuff in ROM so less of the
>System needs to be loaded into RAM, etc.
>
>Most of the machines I work with have grayscale monitors of various
>sizes.  My home machine has color, but my old SE worked just fine in
>1-bit (and my parents still use it in that very configuration).  My
>workstation has a one-bit screen, too (Sun4/25) and there's nothing
>wrong with it.
>
>The point is that talking about an emulator that only emulates the
>features of a Mac Plus is not very interesting relative to many of the
>new features *besides color* which have been developed since then, no
>matter how fast a Mac Plus it emulates.  Certainly comparing its raw
>speed to a IIci is hardly a useful comparison.

I just learned yesterday that an emulator emulating Mac IIx is out,
thus color is now available for the emulation too.  I am going to
check on how it emulates these other features you talk about too.

>Christopher K. Davis      |       NET.INSIGHTS INTO ARTISTIC CRITICISM:

Regards,

Dariusz Bolski

-- 
Dariusz Bolski     Ohio Supercomputer Center, IBM POWER Visualization System
Systems Programmer Ohio State University , Columbus U.S.
                   The Advanced Computing Center For The Arts And Design
e-mail: derek@cgrg.ohio-state.edu  derek@osc.edu
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
From: mgcbo@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Charles B. Owen)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: GNU C++
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:36:00 GMT
Organization: Educational Computing Network

I am looking for an ftp site for the GNU C++ product complete with 
source for SPARC.  Does anyone know if a generic preprocessor only
version exists that is written in C and produces C code as an output?
I have a large program in C++ I need to run on a Cray and I need a way
to preprocess it to C or a Cray C++ (Available "real soon now")  I 
know this used to the be way C++ was done in the bad old days.  Any
ideas?

Charles B. Owen
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss