HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gary@intrepid.com (Gary Funck)
Subject: Re: C-SPAN & 1929 !
Organization: Intrepid Technology, Inc.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:51:27 GMT

In article <Bxur4t.DJ6@cs.uiuc.edu> watanabe@cs.uiuc.edu (Larry Watanabe) writes:
=gary@intrepid.com (Gary Funck) writes:
=
=>In article <1992Nov10.225250.3355@gumby.dsd.trw.com> suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com (Maurice E. Suhre) writes:
=>>In article <1992Nov10.011635.26341@intrepid.com> gary@intrepid.com (Gary Funck) writes:
=>>>
=>>It isn't obvious to me how the taxpayer "picks up the tab" for lower
=>>interest rates.
=>>
=
=>The relationship is indirect, and arguable.  My point was that if we support
=>an economic system which keeps weak businesses and banks afloat, we hurt
=>ourselves:
=
=>(1) weak businesses generally block progress and job growth
=>(2) weak businesses cannot compete as well in a global market
=
=True, we don't want weak businesses around, but only if we
=have something better to replace them.
=

Agreed.  This is all a matter of degree.  My point was that if the
govt. becomes too heavily involved in manipulating monetary policy
and in subsidizing big busineeses that are just hanging on,
what we have is a different form of transfer payment.

=But there is no reason to penalize our companies by having
=high interest rates, which adversely affects strong companies as well
=as weak ones.
=
=High interest rates are good because they weed out weak companies?
=Why not also slap an extra 70% tax on all corporations, which would
=also help kill off the weak companies?
=

Not my proposal.  I'm just pointing out that when interest rates are
lowered, the burden shifts from the debtor to the creditor.  In the
US, the creditor is the working taxpayer and the debtor is a corporation
or institution (in general).

=>(3) lower interest rates will lower the yield on conservative, long-term
=>investments.  
=
=>This forces individuals to take on higher risk, or accept
=>a lower level of real income.  As the TV economists noted, lower real income
=>decreases tax revenues, which raises govt. debt.  Higher risk investing
=>encourages speculation (not usually in a productive sector), which damages
=>the stability of our financial markets.
=
=Higher interest rates are more damaging than low ones, to the market.
=If interest rates were higher, it would
=make lower-risk investments like bonds/treasuries more attractive
=relative to securities.

My point exactly.  Encouraging lower rate investments (eg, bonds)
that develop the "infrastructure" is not all that bad.  The stock
market is already overvalued, by most accounts.  If money keeps
pouring into the market, we'll eventually have to label it as
speculative.  If speculative growth continues, a correction is due.
For the retiree who has been "forced" into equity mutual funds by low
interest rates, this correction will be quite harmful.
   
   - Gary
-- 
| Gary Funck  		    gary@intrepid.com  [uunet!uupsi!intrepid!gary]
| Intrepid Technology Inc., Mountain View CA (415) 964-8135
--
Organization: Masters student, Architecture, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:13:54 -0500 
From: "Peter B. Behrens" <pb00+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Need info about Janus funds
Distribution: usa

Excerpts from netnews.misc.invest: 18-Nov-92 Need info about Janus funds
by Rao Gudimetla@apee.ogi.e 
> I need the address or phone number of Janus funds. Please
> send e-mail to gudimet@apee.ogi.edu. Many thanks.
>  
> Rao Gudimetla

Janus Group of Mutual Funds
100 Fillmore Street, Suite 300
Denver, CO  80206-4923
1-800-525-3713
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Another question
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:06:10 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.150841.19689@odi.com> ed@odi.com (Ed Schwalenberg) writes:
>In article <1992Nov20.005720.27678@netcom.com> sbale@netcom.com (Swamy S. Bale) writes:
>  A person( family) can have a decent living standards for $50000/year.
>  (this is just an assumption). After 30 years, and after adjusting to
>  inflation, how much do you think that family need per year to 
>  maintain the same living standards?
>
>  Is there any formula for calculating the income needed? Also would like
>  to know average yearly inflation for the past 30 years.

Hard to predict.
"Postdict" and look at the past.  Long term government bonds were at 4% and
slightly ahead of inflation of about 3%.  Many inflation blips due to
wars ending and the energy crisis.  Fewer deflations such as the oil crash
and the current real estate crash.

Look at current numbers.  Guess you want to generate half you income from
savings- the other half from social security and pensions.  Retirement
income needs will be lower.  Assume you will draw out 4% of savings
per year.  Try for a 8% yield where other 4% is inflation hedge.
Half income at 4% requires savings of 12.5x current income, assuming you
don't draw down principle like an annuity or IRA.  So savings goal would
be $600,000 in today's dollars for this to work.  Not impossible will
real estate inflation and magic of compounding interest.  Don't get too
attached to money- many catastrophes could happen- devaluations (e.g. many
Russians saved 10 years of income in rubles which deflated by 500x past
two years), you could lose a lawsuit, you or family could have a serious
illness.  Life is life and has unpredictibilities.  But if one does not
save at all, they will certainly only have SS to live on.
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: hogge@intellection.com (John Hogge)
Subject: "socially conscious" no-load mutual funds.
Organization: Intellection, Inc.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:39:27 GMT


I'm looking for good no-load mutual funds with "socially conscious"
stock selection criteria.  I know of two:
  Pax World
  Dreyfus Third Century

Know of any other/better ones?

--John
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: pjweaver@ralvm29.vnet.ibm.com (Paul Weaver)
Subject: Re: 10 Highest Yielding Dow Stocks
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 14:12:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: pjweaver@ralvm29.vnet.ibm.com
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

In article <1992Nov17.020028.1483@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, pmd@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Phil Dickens) writes:
|> I have been interested in the idea of buying the 10 highest
|> yielding Dow stocks and holding for a year. Unfortunately,
|> I don't have the cash to buy 100 shares (or any reasonable
|> facsimile thereof) of each such stock. My question is this:
|> Merill Lynch has a fund which does buy the 10 top yielding Dow
|> stocks and I could buy a piece of that. Of course the drawback
|> is the 2.75% sales charge, plus some unclear (to me anyway)
|> "management charges" (I think on the order of .1%).
|> Does this sales charge seem unreasonable to fellow netters??
|> Is there some other fund that does this for a lot less??
|> Does this idea seem reasonable?? 
|> 
|> Any comments greatly appreciated.
|> 
|> Thanks,
|> 
|> Phil Dickens

2.75% is probably considered a low-load fund. I thought most of the ML funds
charged more on the order of 8.5% though?? The management fee is probably more
on the order of 1%, and nearly all funds have fees of this order.

If you are simply looking for a fund that is income producing, I would instead
look for a no-load fund from 20th Century, Fidelity, Vanguard, etc. You don't
need to have the top 10 Dow stocks in order to produce good income. And in fact,
you'll probably do better without them.
-- 

===============================================================================
Paul J. Weaver                 | "It is well that war is so terrible, or men
pjweaver@ralvm29.vnet.ibm.com  |  should grow too fond of it"
-------------------------------|       General R. E. Lee
I speak only for myself        |       Battle of Fredricksburg, VA  Dec. 1862
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: strollo@ssd.kodak.com (Larry Strollo)
Subject: How to start a stock club ?
Originator: strollo@shavano
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 17:36:49 GMT


Some friends and I are contemplating starting a stock club.  I went to two
pretty good book stores, and could find nothing to help me figure out how
to do this.  Can anyone point me to sources of information ?  (I'd prefer
e-mail replies, but will also be following this newsgroup for a while.)

Thanks

-- 
===============================================================================
Larry Strollo                                             strollo@ssd.kodak.com
Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY 14653-9005                       (716) 253-9822
===============================================================================
From: blee@digi.lonestar.org (Benjamin W. Lee)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Anyone heard of ISIS before?
Date: 19 Nov 92 18:00:41 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications, Plano Tx.

I've sent this once but havn't seen it posted yet. Could be lost in
somewhere....

Today, an agent from Hibbard-Brown called me to push a stock called
Sequential Information, a NY based 5 million company specialized in
defense/information technology contracts. Yes, I do remember what the
NET has to say about HB and it's remarkable agent. (BTW, when I was
on the phone, I just couldn't understand the guy's desire to make me
rich. What a nice guy, I thought ;-). So, if we skip the part about
HB, does anyone knows about this company?

Symbol is ISIS, yesterday I checked it was 15c ask, 13c bid. I was
told there are 8 market makers. IBM, GE, Martin M., Grumman are among
their customers. How could I find more info about this company?
In addition to 13c goes to 3c, do you know what other potentialS of
this company?

Any info will be greatly appreciated. FYI, I think I will pass this
time. Penny stock is not my style. Especially with MY money. However,
I am just interested to see what all this will fall out!
From: taw4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (TODD A WATKINS)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Hot Ideas?
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:01:22 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University


>>>Anyone other private investors out there care to post hot investment
>>>ideas (along with the reasons they're hot)?
>>>
>>>Here's one of mine:
>>>
>>>GNLB: A medical research company. They recently have gone into
>>>late stage trials on several anti-viral medicines. Could
>>>take off in a year or so but it might crash if their medicines are
>>>not approved.
>>>

>>Here's one...PDLI.  Protein Design Labs out of Palo Alto, California.  Researc
h
>>and development of cancer and anti-viral medicines including an
>>off-branch of Chiron's IL-2 (with Hoffman-LaRoche).
>>
>>Currently has FDA and Department of Health examining 2 projects for human
>>testing allowance....Initial hype brought the stock from 7 1/4 to 11 7/8 in
>>a very short time.
>>
>>High point of the stock was I believe 17 or 18....Will it go up?..Friday had
>>MANY share trade hands but stock only rose 1/8...My guess is investors thought
>>the price would peak and sold off their shares.

My favorites are Summit Technology, VISX Inc, and Sunrise Technology, all of
which hold patents on medical laser equipment for corneal sculpting -- Summit
is in Phase III clinical trials and expect FDA approval in 1993 or 1994 for
their systems which will correct nearsightedness, astigmatism and other vision
problems.  They're already selling the things throughout Germany and elsewhere
in Europe.  Allow people to toss their glasses after a quick visit to the eye
doc.  Summit and VISX signed a joint venture agreement to resolve a patent
fight recently, and all 3 displayed promising products at last weeks national
opthomologists meeting.  Stock jumped a bunch, and may fall near term, but
for investing for a couple of years with huge growth potential, looks like a
multibillion dollar market is out there, and these are the clear leaders.
-- 
Todd A. Watkins          Lehigh University/College of Business & Economics
taw4@lehigh.edu          Rauch Business Center #37/Bethlehem, PA  18015
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: A stupid question I should know
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:12:56 GMT

In article <Bxvu8I.KrE@cs.uiuc.edu> watanabe@cs.uiuc.edu (Larry Watanabe) writes:
>As to their effect on the stock price: it really 
>depends on a variety of things.
>
>On the other hand, suppose you have a company that 
>has a very high P/E and it prints out more shares.
>Then, the earnings have to be shared among more
>investors. Because the earnings have been diluted
>among more shares, the price of the stock will 
>usually drop. Eventually, one hopes that the additional
>capital raised will allow the company to make much more
>money. But there is a bit of a lag; earnings will be
>better in the longer-term future, but in the shorter-term
>they will be diluted.

Hard to say, really.


As you noted, the "dilution" may have already been figured into the
price.

The P/E ratio is reallyhard to predict.  What could be a better
measure of dilution is whether the stock is offered above or below
book value.  If the book value is $10 and the stock is offered at
$20, then the shareholders equity of the compnay is increased.
And if the shares are offered at a price below book value, then
there is visible dilution of shareholders equity.

Again, take that with a grain of salt since some assets which
contribute to book value may be old outdated figures.   But it is
clear if shareholders equity will or will not be diluted.  It often
a good idea to avoid those companies where shareholders equity
will be diluted.

In most states (maybe all?) shareholders must vote to approve
the number of shares authorized to be issued.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus)
Subject: Re: Working Assets
Organization: Taligent, a little subsidiary of two really big companies.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:46:13 GMT

In article <4jF=zy=@engin.umich.edu> jxm@engin.umich.edu (John Murray) writes:
>Does anyone know of another socially responsible money market fund 
>which they would recommend?  

I'd check out the prospectus for Dryfuss Third Century; the return is
reasonable, and the objectives seem good.
--
-- Christophe

"I draw the line at Styrofoam packing kernels, you sick pervert."
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: pearson_steven@tandem.com (Steven R. Pearson)
Subject: Re: Yields and Betas...huh?
Organization: Tandem Computers Inc.,  Cupertino, CA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:07:22 GMT

In article <BxttAo.A8E@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, msingh@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (The Supreme Commander) writes:
> 
> 
> Please help a new investor with some of the lingo used in the
> financial world! What is a BETA value? And how do I interpret the
> YIELD? I've gotten confused recently because a stock that was doing
> exceptionally well, with a generous increase in value, had a YIELD of
> 0%! I therefore figured I must be missing something...

Yield, for a stock, represents the income return on the stock given
its current price and dividend.  If XYZ stock costs $10/share and it
pays dividends that total 45 cents annually (per share), then the yield
is  (0.45) / (10.0) = 4.5%.

Beta is a measure of relative volatility.  I do not know how it is calculated.
The stock market (S&P 500 is the common surrogate) is defined to have a beta
of 1. A stock with a beta lower than 1 is less volatile; i.e. its price typically
moves up and down slower than the market moves.  A stock with a beta greater
than one is more volatile than the market.  People often use beta as a measure
of risk.  You may see betas published not only for individual securities, but for
whole portfolios as well (e.g. mutual funds).

For some time, the belief that stocks with higher betas tend to outperform the
market over time has been accepted wisdom. It goes hand in hand with "more
risk requires/implies more reward."  Someone even won a Noble Prize in
economics for research in this area.  One recent study made news because its
findings were counter to this theory. 

-steve p.
From: McAldon International Inc. <mcaldon@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Date: 18 Nov 92 20:52 PST
Subject: Re: Inheritance forthcoming...advice so
Nf-ID: #R:1992Nov13.203738.16082@src.dec.c:864223362:cdp:1426500297:000:1544
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!mcaldon    Nov 18 20:52:00 1992


|What is stopping people from forming a "gift-swap-club" (read tax evasion
|joint)?  Say the club has 10 members.  All of them want to gift their
|one kid $100K this year.  Here is scheme:
|Each member gifts his/her kid $10K;
|Each member gifts the other nine members $10K each;
|Each member then gifts $10K to every other members' kids.
|$100K from each member channeled to his/her kid tax free.  Any problem
|besides upsetting IRS?

This ingenious idea looks OK to me (not a CPA or attorney).  But in most
circles it would be difficult to find a bunch of people wishing to hand
out this kind of money.  I suspect the IRS could prevent somebody from
acting as a broker, which probably would be needed if you wanted to 
find people for such a "club."   No doubt if the idea proved to be legal
and became popular, Congress would act.   DMcKenzie

                                -0-

<Yes, a portion of each person's one-time 600K estate-tax exemption is
<being used up.  It is better to give the gift over a period of years.
<(mom can give 10K/yr and dad can give 10K/yr, thats 20K/yr/kid)
<Mark

I believe this statement mixes apples & oranges.  The annual gift is
subject to exemption; the lifetime $600,000 "estate-tax exemption" is
actually a credit of $192,800 against the estate tax, and in effect
renders the first $600,000 of the estate taxfree.  Prior exempt gifts
have no bearing.   DMcKenzie

|    mcaldon@igc.org     | Opinions dispensed herein not guaranteed |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: yoon@meaddata.com (Yoonho Ha)
Subject: Re: 10 Highest Yielding Dow Stocks
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:51:50 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Nov17.020028.1483@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, pmd@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Phil Dickens) writes:
|> I have been interested in the idea of buying the 10 highest
|> yielding Dow stocks and holding for a year. Unfortunately,
|> I don't have the cash to buy 100 shares (or any reasonable
|> facsimile thereof) of each such stock. My question is this:
|> Merill Lynch has a fund which does buy the 10 top yielding Dow
|> stocks and I could buy a piece of that. Of course the drawback
|> is the 2.75% sales charge, plus some unclear (to me anyway)
|> "management charges" (I think on the order of .1%).
|> Does this sales charge seem unreasonable to fellow netters??
|> Is there some other fund that does this for a lot less??
|> Does this idea seem reasonable?? 
|> 
|> Any comments greatly appreciated.
|> 
|> Thanks,
|> 
|> Phil Dickens

Paine Webber also has a fund that consists of the 10 highest yielding 
Dow stocks.  At the beginning of every year, the stocks are reevaluated.
You might want to check into that.  I don't remember what the fees are.

-- 
|Yoonho Ha                       (513) 865-1305| If at first you  |
|Mead Data Central            Data Enhancements| don't succeed,   |
|9555 Springboro Pike         yoon@meaddata.com| redefine success |
|Miamisburg, Ohio 45342 ...!uunet!meaddata!yoon|                  |
|______________________________________________|__________________|
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: pearson_steven@tandem.com (Steven R. Pearson)
Subject: Re: Beginner questions -- where can we go for help?
Organization: Tandem Computers Inc.,  Cupertino, CA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:22:20 GMT

> >What advise do you have for beginner investors?
>
> [...]
>
> Would anyone like to write an article ...
> that could get a beginner on the road to sensible investing?  ...

My take on this is that investing is just one aspect of personal finance.
People often seem to have the itch to try their hand at investing
before they get the rest of their act together.  This is a big mistake.  For this
reason, I often recommend that "new investors" hit the library and read maybe
3 different overall guides to personal finance (3 for different perspectives, and
because common themes will emerge...repetition implies authority?).  Anyway,
what I'm talking about are the books like:

  Andrew Tobias,  [Still] the only [other] investment guide you will ever need.
      (3 versions with slightly different titles, all very similar in content.)
  Sylvia Porter's
  Money magazine's Money Guide
  etc. (whatever your library has)
  Maybe even Charles Givens, with caveats.

What I am specifically NOT talking about is most anything that appears on a
list of investing/stock market books that appear in misc.invest from time to time.
You know, Market Logic, One Up on Wall Street, Beating the Dow, Winning on
Wall Street, The Intelligent Investor, etc.  These are not general enough.  They
are investment books, not personal finance books.

Many "beginning investors" have no business investing in stocks (as I myself
found out the hard way).  The give good overall money management, budgeting,
purchasing, insurance, taxes, estate issues, and investing backgrounds from which
to build a personal framework.  Only after that should one explore particular
investments.  If someone needs to unload some cash in the meantime, they should
put it in a money market fund, or yes, even a bank account, until such time as
they complete their basic training.

While I sympathize with those who view this education as a daunting task, I don't
see any better answer.  People who no next to nothing and always depend on
"professional advisors" to hand-hold them through all transactions are simply
sheep asking to be fleeced (they may not actually be fleeced, but most of them
will at least get their tails bobbed).  In the long run, you are the only person
ultimately responsible for your own financial situation.

-steve p.  (opinions mine, no warranty, standard disclaimers)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: revelos@ils.nwu.edu (J. Revelos)
Subject: REQUEST: Technology Mutual Fund info
Organization: ILS at NU
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 01:23:11 GMT

I am a begining investor (age 23), getting my Masters in Artificial
Intelligence.  I have read a few books on personal finance, all of which
profess the wisdom of "start early".

Being in the academic area of AI, I am firmly convinced that the area of
the future in going to be in information organization/processing/transfer. 
I think that the time is "ripe" for great leaps in technology based areas. 
I see this (probably naively) as an opportunity to get in on the
ground-floor of some good companies that may become the next blue chippers.

My problem is that I don't have the time, energy, or money to play the
market on individual stocks.  I would like to know if there are any Mutual
Funds out there that center mainly on technology based companies
(computers, communication, software, information processing/transmittal,
etc..).

Advice about specific MF's (if they exist...I've had a hard time tracking
down any info in the more "popular" magazines) would be greatly
appreciated.  

In addition, I would welcome any financial thoughts/advice on "If I was 23
and made around 30K a year, I would......".

Thanks for the
help!
From: casey@cl-next4.msu.edu (Tim M. Casey)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Harken correction
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:30:14 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University

In article <BxKHK8.FoA@apollo.hp.com> goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex  
Goykhman) writes:
>     Beware of the insiders trying to unload the stock...	

I forgot to mention in my last letter, the stock price actually did drop  
drastically BEFORE anouncement of a strike. Also the Venezelian contract  
was for 6 years, not 6 months.

Also, the stock has a steady base around $2 and has had that base ever  
since it was available. Believe me, I WILL keep a close eye on this one. I
already have a stop loss order at $5. I will break even if it reaches this  
price.
Newsgroups: misc.invest