HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Kennedys (was Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions)
Date: 27 Aug 92 03:32:14 GMT
	<Bt562o.Gp4@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> <78000@ut-emx.uucp>
	<1992Aug19.232323.648@oakhill.sps.mot.com>
Distribution: na
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science


   jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak) writes:

   3. Who's going to elect a Black Senator?  Certainly not Massachusetts in the
      '40s or '50s.

At the risk of nitpicking, let me say that this one point isn't very
convincing.  If memory serves properly, Massachusetts elected a black
senator (Edward Brooke) who served from 1967 to 1979.  Given that
piece of reality, I might well argue that a "black Kennedy" could have
been elected in the 40s or 50s. 

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Degrees of racism (was Re: Whites don't understand)
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:53:22 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.205505.12037@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.014819.8290@oakhill.sps.mot.com> jpak@manute.sps.mot.com (Kinder and Gentler Jim) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug24.202037.6176@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug18.225505.28047@oakhill.sps.mot.com> jpak@manute.sps.mot.com (Kinder and Gentler Jim) writes:
>>>>notice.  And it's something I'll definitely consider if I ever have kids
>>>>someday and I want to know where to raise them.
>>>
>>>Unless you're in a war zone, "how" is more important than "where".
>
>  Look, don't tell Jim how to raise his kids or where.  Don't define
>  what a war zone is for him either.  He knows one when he sees one.
>  Since when are you an expert on raising Asian American kids?

You seemed quite upset with Mr Pak's post; as this is the only place you 
address mine, I'll answer it. I HAVE Asian-American kids. Two of 'em, in fact.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - I'm only doing what the little voices tell me to do. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go)
Subject: Re: Group Rights vs. Individual Rights / Group Power vs. Individual Power
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, Rice University
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 19:44:12 GMT

In article <16othoINNnou@agate.berkeley.edu> nbyram@ocf.berkeley.edu (Nicholas Byram) writes:
>In article <SHAW.92Aug12082736@whopper.lcs.mit.edu> shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
>>
>>What I don't have is "power", or rather, what I want MORE of is power.
>>"Rights" are a nice thing to have, but they only guarantee a floor which I
>>cannot fall beneath.  They cannot propel me upward, and they cannot
>>guarantee that my rights will be upheld.  Only power can do that.
>
>I have no problem with this. But I do have a problem with mealy-mouthed
>sniveling neo-communists like you who want to gain power by theft,
>defamation of others, or political balckmail.

No.  Of course not.  Instead, your method is to use a hammer or baseball
bat on someone.

>You want power? Try EARNING it. It's a lot like wealth. In fact, much
>of power is wealth.

Did the white man gain power here by earning it?  Do you consider killing
everyone else "earning" power?  If so, then I guess the rioters in L.A.
had the right idea.
From: hirota@sluggo.sdsc.edu (Bryan Hirota)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian/Asian American Conflicts
Date: 28 Aug 1992 04:27:36 GMT
Organization: San Diego Supercomputer Center
NNTP-Posting-Host: sluggo.sdsc.edu
Keywords: Michael Jordan,  Leprosy

I can see what you're saying Joe, but I think you and
I are pretty different, probably due to background.

Coming from a Japanese American family,  being an
"american" has always been the norm.  We are obviously
"not Japanese".

I suspect that had my family not been interned during
World War II, I probably would feel more interest in
Japan, but maybe not.  My father's side of the family
was not interned (he's from Hawaii).  They're not
very Japanese either.

Maybe it's a difference in Chinese/Japanese thinking?

Most of my Chinese friends seem to think like you.

Bryan Hirota	-	hirota@sdsc.edu	-	bhirota@ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: billc@morten.ucb.edu (Bill Castell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: name this tune
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:43:09 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: train.ebay.sun.com

In article 12676@mitchell, mitchell@Software.Mitel.COM (Robert Mitchell) writes:
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
>   The Steven Spielberg movie "Empire of the Sun" opens with a song
> called "Suo Gan". Can anyone tell me what the song title means, and what
> the song is about ?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> /Rob

My knowledge of Mandarin is not perfect but I think it
means "Happy are the Downtrodden" or "Content are the
Down and Out"--something to do with religion(?)

The song goes on the praise a great "semi-divine figure on
an Island kingdom" and roughly translated preaches 
"Buy British--Your White-Collar Job Depends on it."

Bill 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gwu@nujoizey.tcs.com (George Wu)
Subject: AAs in East Podunk (Was: Re: Marketing to AAs)
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems Inc.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:15:57 GMT

In article <l9kqqgINNfpd@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>, melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (Calling Dr. Nordstrom ...) writes:
> 
> 	achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin) :
> 	> My trip to the BA was *excellent*!  But in the aftermath, I 
> 	> have a little sadness that the strength and vibrance of the 
> 	> AA community there rings a little hollow here in the Deep 
> 	> South, where rednecks are always just around the corner.  
> 	> We will not be true Americans until we no longer have to view 
> 	> the BA and Hawaii as havens.  We've got to keep spreading out!
> 	> And what better time than now, when California's broke and 
> 	> real estate in the South is dirt cheap....
> 
> California may be broke but I'd still rather live here than anywhere else.
> Spreading out is fine as long as living conditions are favorable to your
> personal tastes but spreading out for the sake of spreading out to try
> to diversify the rest of the country is impractical.

     It's a matter of personal sacrifice for the good of AAs in general
somewhere in that misty future.  Am I willing to trade my personal
preference of living in AA influenced California society for life among
the rednecks so someday AAs will have it easier in middle and Southern
(and Eastern and Northern) America?  That's sure asking alot, Andrew.
Call me selfish, call me (stereo)typically Asian, but there's only so
much I'm willing to sacrifice for my fellow man.

							George

----
George J Wu, Software Engineer         | gwu@tcs.com or uunet!tcs!gwu
Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc. | (510) 649-3700
2121 Allston Way, Berkeley, CA, 94704  | Never be the first to believe . . .
From: shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 26 Aug 92 12:35:32 GMT
	<1992Aug25.142037.24448@panix.com>
	<1992Aug25.221926.9927@oakhill.sps.mot.com>
	<1992Aug26.053314.20774@panix.com>
Distribution: na
Organization: MIT Lab for Computer Science, Cambridge, Mass.

In article <1992Aug26.053314.20774@panix.com> sieh@panix.com (Twinkie Chinkie) writes:
   >You know, in a previous article, you wrote:
   >
   >     For myself, I have a serious difficulty with the idea of portraying
   >     myself as a victim.  [<1992Aug22.190240.25334@panix.com>]
   >           
   >Really?  Is that so?  Could have fooled me.

   This is so laughable.  Learn to read huh.  Or better yet, learn reading 
   *comprehension*?  JJ, you know about CYA'ing? :-)  hehe...Naturally, 
   this looks like you got me here.  Only problem is that you took it out of 
   context Jim.  But I'm not surprised.  I said that to your face several
   months ago in May too.  Boy, didn't that get your dander up :-).  You 
   haven't changed at all.  

   Oh, btw, that article dealt with being a victim of *WHITE* discrimination 
   and repression.  As for being a victim of Asian American discrimination?  
   Well, you have a point here.

Well, for someone who claims to worship the concept of race-blindness, you
sure are hypocritical -- you have difficulty with the idea of portraying
yourself as a victim of *WHITE* discrimination, but don't have any
difficulty with the idea of portraying yourself as a victim of *ASIAN*
discrimination?  (And if you do have difficulty, you sure hide it well --
Judy must be pretty pleased that you're still upset over her little attack
on you.)

You are not race-blind Lui, but you _are_ consistent in your efforts to
show how even-handed you are by ignoring any injustice, as long as the
victim is Asian.  I thought that was a reasonable reason for Judy to fly
off the handle -- although I wouldn't use words like "go back to your white
master", "Oriental sycophant" hardly seems inaccurate at times, especially
when you write stuff like this:

   At points in my life, I've had more AsAms 
   against me and wishing me harm than Whites.  And certainly I've never had 
   to hear from a "White", "I'm chinkier than you" accompanied by the appropriate
   facial expression.  I should be grateful for some small favors in life I
   suppose.

And I've never been called "chink", "gook" or "Jap" by an Asian.  I've
never been spit on by an Asian.  I've never had my house vandalized with
racial epithets by an Asian.  I've never been beat up by an Asian.  I've
never been told to "go back to where I come from" by an Asian.

What is your point?

-Andy
From: kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Racial Discrimination Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 29 Aug 1992 17:58:31 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, Rice University

In article <7827@public.BTR.COM> timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee) writes:
>fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>|shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
>|>Would it be a betrayal of "people of color"?  Well, I suppose it would be a
>|>betrayal to the extent that a second-generation Eastern or Southern
>|>European kid is betraying the "people of color" by taking advantage of his
>|>ability to look, sound, and act enough like the guys in power to get jobs,
>|>promotions, and elected where a "person of color" would not be able to.
>|
>|Out of curiosity, how many jobs and promotions have you actually been denied?
>
>You mean on the basis of race?  Obviously, he can't tell, regardless
>of what the answer is, since no one these days is going to give that
>reason, if it is that reason, for denying a job or promotion.

Perhaps most people won't tell you that directly, but I have gotten the
advice to put my birthplace on my resume, applications, etc. so that a
potential employer won't question my English proficiency.  At job fairs,
I often get asked the question, "Do you have a J-1 visa?" (or whatever it
is you need to work in this country) or "I saw you applied to our company.
I didn't realize your English would be so good."  So, even though people
may not disqualify you on the basis of race alone, they might look at your
name and assume lack of English proficiency, and throw your application in
the trash as a result.

BTW, Mike, before you say it's not true, *I* was there and was *told* this.
*You* probably were not there.  [Trying to stop an argument before it
starts. :-)]
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian/Asian American Conflicts
Keywords: Michael Jordan,  Leprosy
Date: 27 Aug 92 13:06:20 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <17hn48INNm00@network.ucsd.edu> hirota@sluggo.sdsc.edu (Bryan Hirota) writes:
>The poster (Joe, right?) said that he felt that he was Chinese and his
>tour in America was not necessarily a permanent thing.  

[...]

>If you feel Chinese, then you are an Asian, not an Asian American.

Yeah.  The question that I've always puzzled over is whether there is
a corelation between the fact that I consider myself "Asian" and the
fact that I'm consistently at odds with "Asian-American activists" and
on the side of what Andy Shaw calls the "white cabal."  In the back of
my mind, I've always suspected that there is a connection, but I've
never been quite able to figure out what it is.

The closest thing that I've come to an answer is that I don't I have
any particular need to be thought of as 100% American.  I'd like to be
accepted as an American, but Americans don't want me, that's their
problem.  I'm still Chinese.

Curiously, I have this suspicion that the willingness to downplay
issues of race makes it easier to see me not as a Chinese but as a
human being.  Because, I don't bring up the issue of race, most people
quickly stop noticing it.  As a result, I've never felt "shut out" of
American society, and I can't think of any recent case in which being
both Chinese and American has been much of a hinderance to me.
(Indeed, considering that over a quarter of the graduate students in
my department are from China, it's probably an advantage.)

These are my experiences.  Your mileage may vary.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, blah, blah, blah
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 23:03:30 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.200250.27767@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
writes:
>...
>  Same way with people who sign their real names.  People just
>  can't help but take them more seriously.  It's all a matter
>  of accountability, really.  If I were a new parent, I'd want
>  to read viewpoints from other new parents and take it more
>  seriously than viewpoints from someone who is talking "theoretically."
>  My sister (no kids) tried to lecture me on some "theory" of
>  getting your toddler to obey you and both me and my mom laughed
>  her out of the room.  Ha!  She takes a pediatrics class and thinks
>  she can get toddlers to obey.  Ha ha ha.
>...

This, of course, ignores the obvious.

Namely, I have the utmost respect for many Japanese and Western parents,
who are parents for the 1st time.  They _do_ consult scientific and
how-to books on child-rearing in the hope of rearing children in the
healthiest way possible.  They _are_ concerned about the modern
ways of expressing love and concern for children's well being.

Even if one thinks that the consulted books, like those written
by Dr. Spock, are crock, the people, like many Japanese and Western
parents, who consult these books have the best intentions in mind.
They are good and decent people.

This, of course, is in stark contrast to many Chinese-cu parents.
They consult their own bigotry, ignorance, and cruelty to raise
some of their children.  They think that books written by well-intentioned
folks like Dr. Spock are a bunch of liars and all-together know-nothing
Westerners.

But the truth is that Western (and Japanese) parents know far
more than their Chinese-cu counterparts.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: Re: Perceptions...
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com (Nicer but still the Devil)
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 23:06:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.155034.16811@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> maridai@ecs.comm.mot.com (Marida Ignacio) writes:
>Perceptions 3                                       
>    NO honorable mentions on peoples' comments if they are without 
>    *genuine first-hand experience* on the things that they are 
>    commenting about or arguing about.

Since I'm probably the most vocal person to speak on this in the past, I
won't let your comments pass without a reply.

>Reality 3
>   Do I have to be a prostitute to justify that this livelihood 
>   has fed mouths, children, to live a life?  I can NOT be 
>   judgemental to the prostitute or pimp?

Why be judgmental to the prostitute in the first place?  Especially since,
like you said, he/she did it feed his/her children and his/her self?

And that's not the argument I've been making all along.  What I've been saying
is that unless you've been a prostitute, you don't REALLY know what a yucky,
gross job it is.  Or else what a wonderful, terrific job it is.  Or anything
in the middle.  I don't possibly see how anybody who's never done it could
know the experience as well as someone who has.

>   Do I have to try drugs (crap) to justify it does more harm than good?

Again, that's never been my argument.  That drugs probably do more harm than
good is a pretty safe assumption to make, given all the evidence that's come
out in the past.

HOWEVER... if there ever was a thread going on in alt.drugs (or wherever)
about how tough it is for an ex-junkie to quit the habit, and you've never
taken drugs, how can you really know how tough it is?  How can you be an
expert on that subject?  Because you're a fellow human being?  Because you
have empathy?  Puh-lease.

Sure, anyone is free to comment on it and try to pass themselves off as an
"expert."  But then again, I don't have to weigh their opinions as heavily
as someone who's actually gone through withdrawal.

>   Do I have to have AIDS to know how it feels to be with it?

Do you *REALLY* know what it's like?  Really?  Do you REALLY know what Ryan
White or Kimberly Bergalis or countless others have gone through?  Really??
Do you really know that kind of pain, that kind of ostracism from others,
the feeling of knowing you're going to die, the feeling of getting weaker and
weaker until you are dead, the feeling of many people being terrified of
coming near you?  Do you really know that?

>Perceptions 4
>    Racism is rife only in America.

Nobody has ever said that.  What *has* been said is that racism in other
places doesn't justify racism here, nor should it be an excuse to ignore
racism here.  If that's true, then why even care about the Vietnamese boy
who got killed in Florida?  Because at least that wasn't as "bad" as what's
happening in Yugoslavia.

Jim
From: Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: GOP Adopts Buchanan's Wall Against Illegal Immigration
Date: Thu,  3 Sep 92 23:41:45 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa
  <7751@public.BTR.COM>

Of course, nobody mentions that the unions are the biggest anti-immigration
group of them all, and they claim they're looking out for the best
interest of the Mexicans. Imagine, how awful it is they we exploit them when
we come up, or send them substandard wage jobs? We should do them a favor
by letting them starve in their poverty striken villages.

The left does more than it's share of anti-Mexican, not to mention the
looney tunes population bomb environmentalists. The Mexicans do a heck of
a lot less damage to the earth up here than they do in Mexico, that's for
sure.
From: shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 31 Aug 92 23:02:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: whopper.SHAW.92Aug31180212
	<1992Aug25.142037.24448@panix.com> <26AUG199210144312@vxcrna.cern.ch>
	<1992Aug31.034838.817@panix.com>
Distribution: soc
Organization: MIT Lab for Computer Science, Cambridge, Mass.

In article <1992Aug31.034838.817@panix.com> sieh@panix.com (Twinkie Chinkie) writes:
   In article <26AUG199210144312@vxcrna.cern.ch> ikeda@vxcrna.cern.ch 
   (IKEDA,M./EP) writes:
   >I don't think that only non-Asian Americans were against what Judy said.
   >In fact, I myself believe that Judy and Hoyt Sze's philosophy is absolutely
   >nutty.  IMHO, of course.  Why was I silent?  Because there were already
   >some competent posts that flamed them already.  And I bet there are a lot
   >more like me.  Also please note that there were a lot Asian American posters
   >who disagreed with this nutty philosophy previous to the infamous 'Oriental
   >sycophant' post.  You are not alone.

   Of course, I know that.  My basic point in that paragraph is everyone should
   speak up when the opportunity presents themselves.  Yes, that's not always
   possible but my feeling generally is that the effort is not made.  To
   paraphrase a famous DWM (Dead White Male), Edmund Burke:
   "For Evil to triumph, all it takes is for good men to do nothing."

   //Twinkie Chinkie

Except that YOU don't speak up when the victim is Asian and the perpetrator
is white.  You just pussy-foot around and pretend nothing happened, but
when _you_ get attacked by someone Asian, you expect some great outpouring
of sympathy and reprimands on the character of the attacker.

Well, it's clear that you're a hypocrite, and that you hold Asians and
whites to different standards.  Whether you consider that bothersome is up
to you to decide.  As I've said before, the words "Oriental Sycophant" do
not seem inaccurate to me.

-Andy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: trieu@me.utoronto.ca (Trieu C. Chau)
Subject: Re: The Chinese Community
Organization: UofT Mechanical Engineering
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:36:54 GMT

trieu@me.utoronto.ca (Trieu C. Chau) writes:

[...]

>children about their Chinese heritage, even though he himself wanted
>them to preserve their 'roots'.  This was because he felt that even if
>he were to put some effort into this cause, his children may not be able
>to do the same for his grandchildren.  That is, he thinks that cultural
>preservation is a lost cause.

I forgot to mention that, for me, a good working definition of success-
fully preserving your heritage is the following:  Being able to under-
stand verbally the language, being able to read the written text,
and having some idea of the history, and traditional values.
-- 
=====================================================================
| Trieu Clinton Chau ~{VljKF=~}    | University of Toronto   ~{6`B[6`4sQ'~} |
| E-mail ~{5gWSSJV7~}:             | Electrical Engineering  ~{5gWS9$3LO5~} |
|    trieu@me.utoronto.ca      |                                    |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go)
Subject: Re: Racial Beating
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, Rice University
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 19:06:25 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.220017.20376@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
>[Sarcasm warning]
>See.  This is what happens when you see racism and evil thoughts
>in everything.  Why be offended if someone calls you names.  You
>should just smile and not see racism where there might not be any.
>Love your neighbors.  If you cause trouble, get angry at racism,
>you end up dead.  What good does that do?  We should just keep quiet
>and not get the Americans upset.  After all, we're lucky to be in
>this country.
>[Sarcasm off]
>When will the killing end?

After everyone dies in nuclear holocaust, of course.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american