From: kgorman@star-trek.bbn.com (Karen Gorman)
Newsgroups: soc.singles
Subject: Re: nice headlights. vroom. (was Re: What knockers!  Crreak.)
Date: 11 Sep 1992 13:50:36 GMT
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
Reply-To: kgorman@BBN.COM (Karen Gorman)
NNTP-Posting-Host: archive.bbn.com

In article <86@cnmhnet.UUCP> keithg@cnmhnet.UUCP (keith garrard) writes:

|It's sad, but this is what it's come to in the world today.  Just 
|being courteous subjects one to being scrutinized by everyone
|witnessing the event.  I was working  at a garden center once, years
|ago, and we sold railroad ties [for landscaping use].  Now, railroad
|ties are pretty darn heavy even for two men.  Anyway, this was at the
|height of the women's lib movement, where equality of the sexes was 
|at the forefront of discussion and discrimination based on sex was
|being looked at in great detail in the workplace.  Anyway, we needed
|sales help in the garden center.  Among the qualifications was that
|anyone who worked there, had to be able and willing to lift heavy
|objects [such as bags of seed and fertilizer, concrete mix, and yes,
|railroad ties].  Well, in walks this woman, who was perfectly 
|qualified to work there, although from appearances, it seemed doubtful
|that she could do the required lifting.  Anyway, she was hired, and 
|proceeded to do a good job, lifting the heavy bags just as the rest
|of us men did.  Anyway, one day, she sold some railroad ties, and asked
|me if I would load them for her.  I refused, saying that I voted for 
|the ERA [equal rights amendment], and that since she said she could 
|do the job, and sold the product, that she should then complete the sale
|and load the product into the customer's truck.


I think the right response would have been along the lines of "I'll help you
load them".  Afterall, you did say the 'railroad ties are pretty darn heavy 
even for two men".  I would suspect you would have helped your male cohorts
load railroad ties...the same courtesy should have been extended to the woman
as well.


|Well, she told the
|boss, and after an argument, I quit.  It was the principle of the
|thing.  Anyway, about three weeks later, the boss called me to say that
|he was wrong, and that I was right.  Even though the gentlemanly
|thing to do would have been to help her, that in today's workplace,
|one simply can't do that. 


I'm not so sure it was the "gentlemanly" thing to do as it was the right thing
to do...helping ones cohorts is usually the right thing (gender aside),
and it also helps to promote team spirit.


|One cannot be a gentleman in today's
|working environment.  A gentleman compliments a lady on her perfume
|or her appearance.  NO WAY!  NOT TODAY!  Today, a simple compliment
|such as "...that's a nice dress..." depending on the flex in the 
|voice, and interpretation, can land you in court for sexual 
|harrassment.


Complimenting a woman on her appearance or her choice of perfume can be a means
of attempting to start a conversation and alike, but it is not the same as 
refusing to help a woman lift a heavy object when she specfically asks
for it.  Being helpful and complimenting someone are two different topics.

 If you find complimenting a woman on her appearance and alike causes you some
aggravation from the women you are attempting to compliment, stop complimenting
them, plain and simple.  However, this doesn't mean you have to stop being
courteous to people, male or female.  If you are going through a door and there
are people behind you, hold it open long enough for them to grab it.  You don't 
need to hold it open for a woman as if you were a doorman at the Ritz, unless
you want to of course.  If holding the door open for the woamn behind you (and
no spongy bits or similiar contact was made by you towards her) causes her
to give you hate stares, chalk it up to PMS...Don't take it personal, some
women are just like that....they got a feminist chip on their shoulder, or
something similar.


|Even a simple "..Good Morning" can be misinterpreted,
|depending on voice flex.  


Don't say it with that certain voice flex then, or don't say it at all to 
that particular woman.


|	I have to say it, let's bring back the days of Good Ole
|Fred MacMurray, and My Three Sons; when the women stayed at home
|and took care of the house.  Not only would this eliminate these
|conflicts in the workplace, it would help with such problems as 
|massive unemployment in the US today, as qualified men could assume
|the positions enjoyed by women today.  
|	Fred MacMurray, we need you more than ever.  May you rest
|in peace.


I thought you said you supported the ERA.  Fortunately, those days are behind 
us now and that is where they should stay.


Karen
kg@bbn.com