HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gingeric9178@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
Subject: Re: Looking for 909 sounds....
Date: 11 Jan 93 15:00:01 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1993Jan11.164352.3105@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally) writes:
> Pick up a Roland R8 or R8M drum machine. The "Electronic Percussion"
> and "Dance" sound cards have all the 808/909 sounds plus more on
> them. I have seen used R8s going for less than half of what you
> wanted to pay for a 909 ! 

Very Good Advice Indeed!!
   I bought my R8 for $400 and got the Dance sound card for $60 and it works
perfectly.  Anyone out there who is looking into 808s or 909s I would strongly
reccomend looking into R8 or the rackmount R8M.

Robert Williams
MANNA-MACHINE
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
From: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Subject: Re: Sam Ash O.K.?
Reply-To: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 16:18:14 GMT

In article <2546@mas1.UUCP>, mikes@mas1.UUCP (Mike Shevell) writes:
|> Hi Folks,
|> 
|>     Has anyone had any good or bad experiences with mail ordering instruments
|> from "Sam Ash Music"?

I have ordered hardware and software from Sam Ash and have never had a
problem with them.
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
From: nordstro@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Christian Nordstroem)
Subject: looking for some special things....
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 01:32:37 GMT


Hiya all...

i have some things i am looking for, maybe somebody want to get them
out of his garage or storage... :)

Korg VC-10, Roland SVC-350, 360systems Midi-Bass, Memorymoog, Korg Ms-20,
Roland VP-70 Voice Processor, PPG (any of them).

So if you have one of those above mentioned, and need money (let's talk 
about that)...please contact me.

 Thanx in advance

 Ringo

nordstro@informatik.tu-muenchen.de Ringo@irc Ringo@Nemesis
Christian Nordstroem  4ward Inc. (R) Computer Consulting
                      Ohlstadter Str.21, 8000 Muenchen 70, Germany
                      Tel: 0049-89-7698666, Fax: 0049-89-7698195
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth,comp.music
From: tomh@tellabs.com (Tom Huber)
Subject: Mac II VX - MIDI problems
Followup-To: poster
Keywords: MIDI, Mac
Organization: Tellabs, Inc.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:20:50 GMT

Hello everyone,

I saw a little blurb in _Electronic Musician_ that said there are some problems
with the new Mac II VX and MIDI applications.  EM indicated that the culprit
is the serial port on the Mac.  Can anyone provide any insight into this?
Has anyone tried to run MIDI applications on a II VX? 

Thanks,

Tom
--
===============================================================================
tomh@tellabs.com    |        |   My opinions are, by definition, my own. 
Tom Huber           |   GO   |      
Tellabs             | IRISH! |   You can't fool all the people all the time,
Lisle, IL           |        |   but if you succeed once, it lasts four years.
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
From: ljnelson@unix.amherst.edu (LAiRD j. NeLSoN)
Subject: Re: Alesis synth???
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 05:25:26 GMT

Stephen Cacclin (cacclin@fraser.sfu.ca) wrote:
> Has anyone heard any information about Alesis releasing a synth. I have
> only overheard whispers...something about 64 voice and analog-sounding.
> Sounds juicy!! 

At this point I think it's more like Lite beer: tastes great, less filling.

LAiRD

--
ljnelson@unix.amherst.edu           |
ljnelson@amh.amherst.edu            |          The Quintet-essential.
(413) 542-2932                      |
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
From: nsw@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (Neil Weinstock)
Subject: Re: REQUEST Good sources of blank cassettes
Organization: The Flying Squid Patrol
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 01:50:43 GMT

In article <1ikmb5INNj9o@early-bird.think.com> Paco Ojeda <ffoogg@macmailgw.dfci.harvard.edu> writes:
>Greetings. I have had moderate success in finding good local sources of
>bulk cassettes. I'm interested in good quality chrome C10's and C20's for
>demo work. TDK now sells a "Master Series" cassette that I've had
>excellent results with. It comes in C10, 15, and 20 configurations. The
>problem is that I can only find it at local record stores, sold
>individually, at prices that I'm sure can be beat.

PolyQuick (708-390-7744) has all kinds of such supplies, including all
manner of blank media, packaging, labelling, etc.

As far as cassettes go, they've got the TDK "Sound Master" (SM) in 10, 20,
30, and 60 minute lengths.  The C-10's are around $1.20.  They've also
got Maxell MS in 20, 30, 60, and 90 minutes.  Ampex Studio cassettes in
5, 10, 15, 30, 45, 60, and 90.  Etc....

They've also got all manner of bulk tape.  Their prices for the usual cassettes
you can get in the store are OK, but you can beat them in NY for sure.  The
weirder stuff is hard to compare; I've never seen it anywhere else.

Anyway, just call 'em up and get their catalog.

                                - Neil

--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--
Neil Weinstock @ AT&T Bell Labs         //     What was sliced bread
att!edsel!nsw or nsw@garage.att.com   \X/    the greatest thing since?
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth,rec.music.makers,comp.music,alt.rave
From: eric@nit.pactel.com (Eric Pederson)
Subject: Re: What are 303's and 808's?
Organization: Pac*Tel Corporation
Distribution: inet
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 01:46:14 GMT

robg@citr.uq.oz.au (Rob Geraghty) writes:

>The later TR505 featured all the sounds of the TR808, 727, and other
>Roland machines as samples yet was cheaper and a fraction of the size.
>(anyone feel free to correct me on this one - I'm not sure about it).
>I think I am getting confused here with the Boss drum machine mentioned
>elsewhere (DR550?).

The TR505 has the following sounds (16 total):
Low Conga, High Conga, Timbale, Low Cowbell, High Cowbell, Hand Clap
Ride Cymbal, Crash Cymbal, Bass Drum, Snare Drum, Low Tom, Mid Tom
High Tom, Rim Shot, Closed Hi Hat, Open Hi Hat

It comes with 48 preset patterns (Bars) and you can create 48 more
with the available sounds.  You may accent any step of a pattern (depending
on the scale this means any 1/16 or 1/32 of a full beat) but you may not
accent any one particular sound at a particular step.  The manual seems to
imply that you can get around this with MIDI and velocities but I have
yet to test this.  You can create up to 6 songs with a combined total of
around 350 bars by sequencing one or more of the patterns described
above.

The sounds are very basic and you can't modify them, other than with the
accents and MIDI velocities.

It is a very small unit and you can run it off 4 AA's.

That's all I can remember off the top of my head.
-- 
Eric Pederson                                       Pac*Tel Corporation
eric@nit.pactel.com                                        510-210-8890
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
From: cwilson@void.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Chris Wilson)
Subject: Re: Voice tranfer Yamaha TG33 to SY22 or SY35
Organization: Nat'l Center for Supercomputing Applications
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:25:19 GMT
Keywords: SY22 TG33

In article <1608@b1.babss.UUCP> quantum@mfci.UUCP (Quantum Audio Concepts) writes:
>I was able to use SY22 ROMs in the TG33. I never tried TG33 ROMs in a 22.
>RAM cards didn't work - they had to be formated as SY or TG.

The TG-33 manual states that SY-22 cards can be used in a TG-33,  but _NOT_ the
other way around.

-Chris Wilson
From: gingeric9178@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
Subject: Re: For Sale: FZ-1
Date: 12 Jan 93 21:44:45 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1993Jan12.232820.29990@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, tsines@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (electronically induced relaxation via sound [Todd Sines]) writes:
> pardon me, but where in the hell did you find a casio FZ-1 for $3-400? i called
> daddy's junky music and they said $799.
> 
Todd,
   I could have swore that one thcover of the last Daddy's it was on there
along with am overpriced tr-909, and some other goodies.  I remember thinking
that it was was wierd about the pricings.  Of course, I threw it away having
just bought an effects processor and not wanting to be tempted anymore.  IF
they quoted you that price, I guess that is that.  Sure wish i had that issue
still, the day I threw it away is when all this came up.  Anybody out there got
the issue in question of Daddy's Junky music cat that they could look on the
front of?      

Robert Williams
MANNA-MACHINE 
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
From: glennd@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Glen Deardorff GDP)
Subject: Re: Wavestation editors wanted
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:58:43 GMT

In article <C0Fy2r.712@sci.kun.nl>, bartjan@cs.kun.nl (Bart-Jan Bouwers) writes:
|> 
|> Hello,
|> 
|> Who knows if a Wavestation (ordinary, EX, A/D, SR) editor is available
|> for the Atari ST computer? If so, what are the names of the packages?
|> 
|> Thanks in advance.
|> 

Steinberg makes a particularly great one called Synthworks Wavestation.  If you can part with 200 U.S. dollars, its well worth it.  It supports all flavors of the Wavestation, except for the SR.  Its graphic user interface is top-notch, allows editing af all editable parameters an all levels, has 2 or 3 different patch generation algorithms, and a full-featured librarian.  Email me if you want more details.  Steinberg is located in Germany, so I'd be real surprised if you couldn't get it in Holland.

Dr. T's X-oR universal ed/lib also has a Wavestation template, although you can't edit wave sequences or effects with it.  I'm sure there are other Wavestation editors, but I don't know about them.

- Glenn
From: FELSKE@ERICH.TRIUMF.CA (FELSKE, WAYNE W.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
Subject: Re: U220 vs. Sound Canvas
Date: 12 Jan 1993 22:06:13 GMT
Organization: TRI-UNIVERSITY MESON FACILITY
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: erich.triumf.ca
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

In  plemmons@mth.msu.edu writes:

> Could someone give me the low down on the difference between the Roland U-220 and
> the Roland SC-55.  I get varying answers from salesmen, and I want the net.truth.
> 
> Steve
    The U-220 has 30 note polyphony with a limit of 6 different voices (MIDI
    chanels) at once plus a drum set. I belive this is more notes than the 
    canvas but the canvas can do 16 parts.
	The canvas of course can do "general MIDI" The U-220 does not 
   though you could probably fake it with enough work).
	The sound canvas display seems to me to give you a better Idea of what
    what your patch is made of. Instruments on what channel, effects level,
    instrument levels. 
	I have used both and find both to have decent voices. The canvas I
    think is a little easier to use for a musician (not a tech nut).
		I think the controller /MIDI stuff is better on the U-220.

	Wayne Felske   
	felske@erich.triumf.ca


     

> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth,rec.music.synth
From: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Subject: Re: Midi patchbay
Reply-To: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 21:16:37 GMT

Roland's MIDI patchbay is 8 in 8 out. Ensoniq bought KMX which
makes an 8x8 and a 16x16 MIDI patchbay and which are now marketed
as Ensoniq products.
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
From: cassiel@cassiel.demon.co.uk (Nick Rothwell)
X-Sender:  (Unverified)
Subject: Re: Midi patchbay
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 21:45:50 +0000

>Note that the MX-8 (was made by Digital Music, now sold by Ensoniq) is a
>6-in/8-out patchbay.

MX-8 sold by Ensoniq? I think you're thinking of the KX or KM or whatever
it's called.

>I have and use the MOTU MTP II.  As best as I can remember, you can
>do everything from the front panel that you can do with the Mac, though
>the periscope display makes it tough to do it well.

No, you can't set channel-specific cable routing (I don't think) or modifiers.

>Once it's programmed, the MTP II works quite well in stand-alone situations,
>as does the MX-8.

The MTP-II insists on global routing of realtime MIDI messages. This can be
a problem.

                      Nick Rothwell  |  "Say, how many contemporary dancers
   CASSIEL Contemporary Music/Dance  |     are there in this bar?"
        cassiel@cassiel.demon.co.uk  |  "Dunno; count the Dr. Martens
        cassiel@cix.compulink.co.uk  |     and divide by two..."

Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
From: matcsp@nuscc.nus.sg (Chan Shih-Ping)
Subject: Anyone heard Kawai's new GMega module?
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 01:11:33 GMT

Has anyone heard Kawai's new General Midi module the GMega yet?
What's your opinion of it?? (It was advertised in January's 
Keyboard...

I'd be very interested to hear how it compares with 
Yamaha TG100/TG500, Roland SC-155 etc.

Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
From: bartjan@sci.kun.nl (Bart-Jan Bouwers)
Subject: Wavestation limitation
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 11:05:32 GMT

Hi,

I think one of the serious limitations of the Wavestation is that in
multi-mode (use of multi setups) the effectsprocessors' scope is the
whole range of 16 performances and NOT just 1 setting for each of the
performances. It greatly reduces the power of the individual
performances when you combine them in a multi-setup I think.
What's your opinion about that? 
Do you know of other synths that have this limitation? Is it common?

Bart-Jan.
Xref: sparky rec.music.makers.synth:1097 rec.music.makers:11761 comp.music:5991 alt.rave:6117
From: jdisegi@bu.edu (Jonathan Disegi)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth,rec.music.makers,comp.music,alt.rave
Subject: Re: What are 303's and 808's?
Date: 8 Jan 93 16:41:27 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.makers.synth
Distribution: inet
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Note: It was said previously that a tr-909 was a digital drum machine. 
This is sort-of-true, the 909 used Digital Drum samples, but all the cymbals
were syntheized using analog technology.

I read this in an incredably outdated (thank god) book on drum machines.

Jonathan Disegi
Boston University
jdisegi@bu.acs.edu

BTW, I have a 303 and a 606!
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
From: young_j@scsuc.ctstateu.edu (YOUNG,J)
Subject: M1 noise problem
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Southern Connecticut State University - Computer Center
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:54:00 GMT

Help...

I have an M1 that is almost 3 years old.  Some of the programs seem to be
producing a fairly noticeable hissing sound when the keys are played.
The hiss is not there until a key is played.  It seems particulary bad
on the Piano 8' factory patch, but it exists on others also.  There always
was a very slight hiss, but it seems to be getting worse.

Has anyone else had a similar problem?  Any suggestions?
Also, is there an M1 mailing list or group?
					
						Thanks,
						John Young
						young_j@scsu.ctstateu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
From: demaris@austin.ibm.com (Dave Demaris)
Subject: Voice tranfer Yamaha TG33 to SY22 or SY35	
Originator: demaris@chip1.austin.ibm.com
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:43:08 GMT
Reply-To: ...@cs.utexas.edu:ibmchs!auschs!aspencer.austin.ibm.com!aspencer
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstation Division
Keywords: SY22 TG33


I was pleased to see that the follow-on SY35 synth seems to have equivalent 16
bit waves in the same slots as the SY22, and apparently can accept 3rd party or
user cards for SY22. I tried to transfer voices I'd created on a TG33 with no
luck; apparently the TG33 format is slightly more complex due to additional 
effects parameters, etc. I think you can use SY22 voices on a TG33 easily, but
not vice versa. If anyone has a suggestion for how to transfer those voices 
(voice editor software between would be OK) I'd appreciate it. I tried
the card (SY35 doesn't recognize TG33 format) and bulk transfer of banks and
individual voices (apparently sysex TG33 sends is not recognized by the SY35). 
I assume that if anyone ever got this to work for an SY22 the same procedure
might work. 
Xref: sparky rec.music.makers.synth:978 rec.music.makers:11671 comp.music:5880 alt.rave:6030
From: mikhil@Vaduz.docs.uu.se (Mikael Hillborg)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth,rec.music.makers,comp.music,alt.rave
Subject: Re: What are 303's and 808's?
Date: 4 Jan 93 07:14:52 GMT
Distribution: inet
Organization: Uppsala University
NNTP-Posting-Host: vaduz.docs.uu.se

mchen@sol4.cs.psu.edu (Michael Chen) writes:

>In article <1i898bINNp1@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> br326@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Raphael Pungin) writes:

>   Hi!
>	   I've heard of something called 303 and 808 that are used to produce
>   techno music. What exactly are those things? Are those synthesizers, trackers,
>   or something else?
[...]
>  The 808 is a reference to the old Roland TR-808 drum machine that seems to 
>pop up all over the place.  I assume the 303 is another model, but I've never
>heard of that one.  505, 6060, 909, ... Hope that helped.

>-- Mike

The 303 is better known as the Roland TB-303 bassline synthesizer. 
It is used as a bass synth, can produce some very nice synthetic 
bass sounds but has a horrible user interface. The user interface
is one of the worst I have ever seen. The box is silver colored
and of approx 300 x 200 millimeters big. There is no external
keyboard interface like cv or midi so the little bastard gotta
be programmed by pushing some juicy buttons from the front 
panel (huh). The sequencer is pattern/song based.
___________________________________________________

 Mikael Hillborg, Computer Sciencestudent at
  __        __  _
 |  \      /   / \
 |   | __  |   \_
 |   |/  \ |     \
 |__/ \__/ \__ \_/ Department of Computer Systems,
                   University of Uppsala, Sweden

 email: mikhil@student.docs.uu.se
___________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
From: kelly@spyro.cray.com (Matt Kelly)
Subject: Spec for Standard MIDI file?
Date: 6 Jan 93 11:54:21 CST


Can anyone tell me where I could find a specification for the
standard MIDI file format, preferrably on the net?

Much thanks in advance,

Matt K.

==============================================================================
kelly@els.cray.com                   |
                                     | Semper ubi sub ubi.
Opinions expressed herein are just   |
that.  Mine, not Cray's.             | -Julius Caesar
                                     |
==============================================================================
From: sdavis@laforge.ksc.nasa.gov (Steve Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth
Subject: Ensoniq SQ-1, SQ-2, KS-32
Date: 6 Jan 93 16:30:04 GMT
Organization: NASA


  I'm in the market for a new synth, and have been looking at the SQ-1 and its  
siblings.  I played with an SQ-2 for about an hour, and was pretty impressed  
overall.  I was especially impressed with the quality of the piano sounds; this  
is very important to me.

  The problem is, the only Ensoniq dealer anywhere near me is a big discount  
house, and I couldn't get any decent help while I was there; nobody there  
seemed to know (or care) much about keyboards.  (It was nice to be left alone  
while test-playing an instrument, though!)

  Soooo, I now turn to this newsgroup for advice.  (The literature I requested  
from Ensoniq hasn't come in yet.)  How do you program this beast?  Does it use  
FM, like a DX-7?  Or is it basically a sample player that lets you manipulate  
the ADSR and effects, like an M1?  How likely is the SQ-x family to become a  
fairly widely-used board?

  Also, how much are these boards selling for?  I like the 76-key keyboard of  
the SQ-2, but I might even consider the KS-32 if the right deal came along.

  Finally, I've heard several nasty whispers about Ensoniq products.  For  
example, the Rogue Music price list has asterisks by all of its used Mirages,  
ESQ-1s, etc., with the legend, "3-day warranty only.  Ensoniq gear-- you know  
why."  No, I don't!  Has Ensoniq had a lower-than-average reputation for  
reliability?  If so, have they improved things for their new products?

  Any comments from owners of SQ-1, SQ-2, or KS-32 synths, as well as  
suggestions for comparable units, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Steve
--
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Steve Davis                      | sdavis@laforge.ksc.nasa.gov |
| NASA, DL-DSD-32                  |    (NeXT Mail OK)           |
| Kennedy Space Center, FL  32899  | HSSC Mail:  RDAVIS          |
| (407)867-7582  fax:(407)867-2173 | #include <disclaimer.h>     |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
Xref: sparky rec.music.makers.synth:1005 rec.music.makers:11686 comp.music:5897 alt.rave:6040
From: robg@citr.uq.oz.au (Rob Geraghty)
Subject: Re: What are 303's and 808's?
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Distribution: inet
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 02:11:57 GMT

tsines@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (enhanced invisible life [Todd Sines]) writes:

>hey, the 909 to the best of my knowledge, does not have any SYNC. maybe tape 
>sync but it doesn;t produce both a MIDI clock out as well as a SYNC clock out, 
>UNLIKE the 707.

Strange - the demo I heard in 1983 (pre MIDI) of the 909 had it synced
to a Roland Micro-composer.  Wonder how they did it?  Still, you may be
right - I was speaking from memory of that one demo ten years ago.

>and, the 505 doesn't have almost any of the sounds that the 808 or 909's have. 
>i think it is the saddest drum machine, sound wise, that roland has ever made. 
>ugh

As I said, I had it confused with the Boss. It seems to be the DR660 I
was thinking of. *sigh*  It's been a long time since I was clued up on
all the current models...

Rob
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Geraghty               | 3 things are important to me 
robg@durian.citr.oz.au     | The gift of love, the joy of life
CITR                       | And the making of music in all its forms
Xref: sparky rec.music.makers.synth:1098 rec.music.makers:11764 comp.music:5993 alt.rave:6121
From: microspy@ponton.hanse.de (Manuel Tessloff)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.synth,rec.music.makers,comp.music,alt.rave
Subject: Re: What are 303's and 808's?
Keywords: Sounds TR-808
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 10:32:19 MEZ
Distribution: world
Organization: Ponton European Media Art Lab, Hamburg

slm4@crux1.cit.cornell.edu (Twilight Productions) writes:

> A few drum machines on the market use the 808 sounds in their banks, the Boss
> DR660, and the Roland R8 ... I don't know about the TR 303 sounds...

You also find the TR-808 sounds in the sound-library of several samplers
like the Roland S-750/770 or the Akai S1000. It'ts easy to copy those
sounds via midi-sample-dump to every sampler you wish.
(By the way: The Akai samples seem to be better than the Roland samples...)

Manuel

-----------------------------------------------------------------
microspy@ponton.hanse.de            Ponton European Media Art Lab
Manuel Tessloff                     Interactive Music Research
2000 Hamburg                        Koppel 66, D-2000 Hamburg 1
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky rec.music.makers.synth:1155 comp.music:6031