From: mike@isgtec.com (Mike Sellers)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: what's a nice place? Places in the US
Keywords: job, place, high-tech
Date: 28 Sep 92 12:19:19 GMT
Followup-To: misc.jobs.misc
Distribution: usa
Organization: ISG Technologies Inc., Mississauga Ontario

[A quick note:  Be careful with the Followup-To line; it is meant for
*newsgroups* not individual accounts.  My Pnews program choked when it
tried to post this to the group santa@judy.indstate.edu]

amaravad@nectarine.ucs.indiana.edu (ratty) writes:
> 	Following up the Seattle thread, how are things in Colorado
> (Denver, Colorado Springs, Fort Collins, Englewood, Boulder (where
> Californians are now moving to).  

Here are a bundle of my personal opinions.

Last year I moved from the Portland, Oregon area, which I love dearly,
to Toronto, Ontario.  I moved specifically for the job which I now hold,
and even then it was a heart-wrenching decision.  Previous to this, I had
looked at various areas in the US; here is what I found:

The Pacific NorthWest is still where I'd choose to live.  The combination
of generally inexpensive living (in Oregon, especially), mild but varied
weather, and great environment (ocean, forest, mountains with year-round
skiing, deserts, city) rank this area high on my list.

I rank Seattle lower because it is fast becoming strangled by its own
traffic -- there are areas now (north of Centralia to the Federal Way 
area) that can have traffic jams lasting all day.  Other than that, and 
the general expense of living there, Seattle is great.  Two notables 
here:  Washington has no income tax but has sales and property tax, and
Oregon has no sales tax but has income and property tax.  For me, the
latter mix is preferable (your mileage may vary).  Either is better 
than Ontario's 15% sales tax plus income, property, and every other
kind of tax you can think of.  

Other top areas include Denver/Boulder Colorado, the Research Triangle
area of N. Carolina, Atlanta Georgia, and perhaps Dallas/Ft Worth Texas.
Provo Utah is also fairly high on the list, primarily for it's low cost 
of living and scenery.  For my family situation, the only area in the US 
that is less expensive to live in than Oregon is Utah.  I've lived there 
before but don't like the hard winters, hot summers, and excessively 
provincial attitudes (and for all that, I'm even a Mormon!).

Other area I'd consider are Madison Wisconsin, and perhaps the twin cities
of Minnesota (though again, these are flat and have long hard winters).

For me, areas like the SF Bay area, Washington DC, and Los Angeles (with 
the possible exception of nearby San Diego) are simply out of the question.
The combination of *extremely* high cost of living, poor environment, 
high crime rate, and similar factors do not (for me) make up for the 
loss of job opportunities that I risk.  

All the other areas I mentioned have at least moderate-sized high tech
environments.  

Anybody else have (researched) opinions here?  I don't want to get into
a "my city is the BEST" contest, but I'd like to hear what others who 
have looked have found?

--
              Mike Sellers      User Interface Team Leader
           mike@isgtec.com      ISG Technologies, Toronto, Canada
              "Actum ne agas" -- Do not do what has been done.
                         Furare tantum ab Optimis
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc