HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett)
Subject: Re: Tracon II. What?
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 05:26:51 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.223026.14866@daimi.aau.dk> u912078@daimi.aau.dk (S|ren Erland Vest|) writes:
>Hi all.
>Fogive me, if I sound stupid, but I got aware of this group only a couple of 
>days ago, and this talk about Tracon II has made me dizzy... :)
>
>I'm totally hooked on Tracon, and I would like to know if it's a completely 
>different game, or only an update?

TRACON // PC = TRACON 1.5 + several new features:
	Emergencies
	Smarter pilots
	Centered radar
	More flexible sector-file format
	Weather radar
	A "remarks" option on aircraft datatags
	Aircraft information window (ala RAPCON)
	MS Flight Simulator communications capability (serial or modem)

"//" is used, rather than 2.0, to drive home the point that this is a "sequel,"
not just an upgrade.

The box/cover for TRACON // really sucks, IMHO: some artsy-fartsy drawing 
with Bob at a console and a Learjet flying overhead.  The old box (a REAL 
picture of Bob at a console) was a lot more impressive... :-) 


TRACON // Mac = TRACON // PC +:
	Better MUIG conformity
	Moveable windows
	snd-format sound

TRACON // Mac is more based on TRACON // PC than TRACON 1.0 Mac.  The current
release is 2.03; this fixes a missed-approach bug when pilots are anything but
perfect (forgot a case statement :-().  The Mac version is a "wild-cat," and
will probably acquire features independent of the PC evolution, if I ever
do anything more on it (unlikely).  The Mac version will "fly" with *one*
PC flight simulator (NOT the Mac MS-FS; Microsoft has completely ignored all
attempts to acquire their Apple Event protocol, which I understand isn't even
proprietary).

The manual for TRACON // Mac is better than 1.5's.


TRACON for Windows = TRACON // PC +:
	Circular round-radar option
	VFR targets
	Multiple bug/performance enhancements to basic TRACON // code.
	Windows support
	Better sound.

Wesson's general policy has been to offer free service upgrades within inte-
gral releases (i.e., Mac 2.03 is free to 2.01 owners), but I hear they've
broken with this with the latest Windows update.


>Furthermore, if it's a different game, where can I get it, and does anyone 
>know if it has come to Europe? I hven't seen it around.

TRACON // was released in August 1990; TRACON // Mac in April 1991; TRACON
for Windows in September or October 1991.  I'm pretty sure that at least a 
couple European distributors carry all versions (you can fax Wesson at 
512-328-7838, or send email to 70250.733@compuserve.com).


Caveat: I did the TRACON // Mac port (and the 1.5/Mac overhaul), but I'm 
reasonably objective about the product (I'm not employed by Wesson: I did it 
on a royalty basis, and haven't made much off it :-)).





---
Robert Dorsett
rdd@cactus.org
...cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!rdd
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas)
Subject: Re: What is realism? (Re: Falcon MC Demo (at la)
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 13:45:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.061121.8144@cactus.org> rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett) writes:
>Nope.  I'm a pilot, and a simulator enthusiast.  I've been playing them since
>FS1, and have time in the real thing, too (707, 727, 747, A310, A320).  In my 
>not so humble opinion, Hellcats has the best flying characteristics of the 
>lot: it's the most like an airplane.  

Robert,

   How does ATP compare with the three products you mention?  Just out of
curiosity, of course.  :)  I would think that it would compare closely
with FS, since the code is based on the FS program, but it does have several
advancements:  1) indicated air speed, 2) altitude effects, 3) Mach buffeting,
4) improved aircraft control, and others.

-- 
John Mechalas                                          "I'm not an actor, but
mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu                                 I play one on TV."
Aero Engineering, Purdue University                     #include disclaimer.h
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas)
Subject: Re: Summary: Flight simulators under X
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 14:26:01 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.041922.3815@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> escmar@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (l~{BmOHIz~}l) writes:
>	Help needed. When I tried to run ACM by typing "acm"
>	I get this response : Permission denied.
>
>	Plse advise me what's wrong?

It sounds like the executable doesn't have it's file permissions set.  Type
the following:

   chmod 700 acm

And see if that helps...


-- 
John Mechalas                                          "I'm not an actor, but
mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu                                 I play one on TV."
Aero Engineering, Purdue University                     #include disclaimer.h
From: escmar@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (l~{BmOHIz~}l)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: Summary: Flight simulators under X
Date: 21 Nov 92 04:19:22 GMT
Organization: nanyang technological university
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]


	Help needed. When I tried to run ACM by typing "acm"
	I get this response : Permission denied.

	Plse advise me what's wrong?
-- 
+-----------------------------+----------------------------------+
Division of Instr. & Control	Internet: escmar@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg 
Nanyang Technological Univ. 	Tel. (off.): (065) 799-5635
Nanyang Avenue S2263
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: eggenste@cantor.informatik.uni-dortmund.de (Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein (LS2))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: A real sim. for everyone (who can afford)
Date: 19 Nov 1992 12:30:53 GMT
Organization: CS Department, Dortmund University, Germany
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cantor
Keywords: Lufthansa, industrial simulators, Airbus, Boing, A320, B737

-----------

The german airline 'Lufthansa' sells simulator time 
to interested individuals! 

The simulators used are exactly those that are used in
Luthansa's pilot training. They are state-of-the-art, 
multi-million-$ systems with hydraulic motion systems 
and authentic cockpits.


As an LH spokesperson said on the german television program
'Premiere', the only differences between pilot-training and visitor-
sessions are:

-for obvious reasons, crashes, 
 cabin fires (smoke!) etc. will not be simulated, even
 if requested
-visitors have to pay for simulator rides
-service includes spitting bags 
  (if that's the correct translation)
 

No flight- or simulator-experience is required to 
do a simulator ride, because qualified staff will 
provide help as needed. The simulator can be adjusted 
to customers' skills and preferences (visibilty, 
winds etc). 'Non-catastrophic' system malfunctions can 
be simulated (e.g. engine failure). 

Now, please stop smoking and fasten your seat-belts 
before you read any further:


One hour of simulation time in the B737 simulator sells for

                           DM 500 (apprx. 310 US-$)


One hour Airbus A320 (fully computerized, fly-by-wire cockpit)
sim. costs
                           DM 650 (apprx. 405 US-$)

The spokesperson stressed out that these fees do NOT fully cover 
Lufthansa's expenses for operating and maintaining the simulators.

Unfortunately, I do not remember where the simulators are 
located, but it was at a Lufthansa training facility somewhere
(I think) in northern Germany (ask Lufthansa).

Of course you will have to book in advance. I don't know about 
how long you will have to wait for a ride.

----

Lufthansa also offers a different, mobile flight simulator 
('Lufthansa Cockpit live'), which is meant to attract visitors at 
expositions and other advertisement occasions to represent 
Lufthansa. I read that it can also be hired
by corporations (article in 'CHIP Special: 'Die besten Fugsimulatoren',
Vogel Verlag, Wuerzburg, Germany).

This simulator consists of a cockpit section (A310) 
and several TV screens 
outside the cockpit so that spectators can watch 
the cockpit view and the pilots's actions. It lacks a motion 
system and its computer hard- and software is (by now) no longer 
state-of-the-art, but still it seems to offer a stunning
experience (video resolution is 1024 x 1024 pixels, the computer hardware
features two Motorola 68020 CPUs with floating point coprocessors
and (most important) a special-purpose VLSI gate-array video-generator
capable of calculating 160 million pixels per second).

It would be interesting to hear accounts of experience 
by non-pilots who have tried one of these or a similar 
industrial system. Anybody out there? 


Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein
From: gak@n5abi.hou.tx.us (Gene A. Kennedy)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: A real sim. for everyone (who can afford)
Keywords: Lufthansa, industrial simulators, Airbus, Boing, A320, B737
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 00:10:42 CST
Organization: Ham Radio Operator, Houston Tex.

eggenste@cantor.informatik.uni-dortmund.de (Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein (LS2)) writes:

> -----------
> 
> The german airline 'Lufthansa' sells simulator time 
> to interested individuals! 
> 
> The simulators used are exactly those that are used in
> Luthansa's pilot training. They are state-of-the-art, 
> multi-million-$ systems with hydraulic motion systems 
> and authentic cockpits.
> 
> 
> It would be interesting to hear accounts of experience 
> by non-pilots who have tried one of these or a similar 
> industrial system. Anybody out there? 
> 
> 
> Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein

 Well, I guess I qualify on half of your request anyway :-) I am a 
pilot (but only single engine land now) but I did get a chance to 
fly a 737 simulator that is probabaly about the same as the LH 
one. It was not a full movement simulator but did have full 
cockpit and very good visual display. I found the 737 simulator 
rather easy to fly (I didn't try anything drastic) and had 
problems only after touchdown on the landing. Just after the nose 
gear touched, I noticed that I was drifting a little to the left 
side of the runway. My first effort with the pedals got no 
response (or none I noticed) so I reached for the ground steering 
knob and got my hand slapped by the instructor! Seems it's better 
to run the simulator off the runway than simulate ripping the nose 
gear off by using the steering knob at too high a speed. My 
mistake was not realizing that the nose gear steering with the 
pedals requires some very heavy pressure on the pedals for very 
little deflection of the nose gear, which makes sense for control 
at higher speeds. Thankfully, the instructor didn't give me any 
"emergencies" :-).
  My only comment about the LH offer is that someone who has no 
prior pilot experience might not fully appreciate the complexity 
of the simulation, but it would, no doubt, be a lot of fun for 
anyone!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
          Gene Kennedy - Ham Radio Operator, N5ABI - 
                      gak@n5abi.hou.tx.us
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: feng-thomas@cs.yale.edu (Thomas Zuwei Feng)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: models for simulators?
Date: 15 Nov 1992 16:38:08 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: giraffe.zoo.cs.yale.edu


I want to find some books/articals that describe mathematical/aerodynamic
models used in flight simulators.  Any information would be appreciated.

Thomas Feng
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: gmanning@dale.cts.com (Gary Manning)
Subject: Re: Yeager's Combat Sim.
Organization: Titan Linkabit Corporation
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:37:07 GMT

David A. Masten (masten@beta.lanl.gov) wrote:
: 
: F3 seems to have the most highly regarded flight model of combat sims,
: though I can find plenty of things wrong with the "complex" model.  I
: think it falls short on many of the non-F16 models.  Don't get that feel
: for the differences between planes that I get in CYAC or Aces.
: 

If you are talking about the differences between the enemy planes, I 
have to disagree.  Each type of enemy plane flys with different 
capabilities and tactics.  Some of them are no contest for the F16, 
but I personally find the Mig 19's tough at close range.  Does anyone
else find them difficult?  If so, what tactics do you use to gain the 
advantage?

** Gary **
--
Gary Manning                                    gmanning@dale.cts.com
Titan Linkabit
3033 Science Park Road
San Diego, Ca  92121
From: banzaii@acs.bu.edu (Adam Shelly)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: Yeager's Combat Sim.
Date: 19 Nov 92 14:18:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: banzaii@acs.bu.edu


In article <Bxxn5s.FzL@ais.org>, draper@ais.org (Patrick Draper) writes:
|> There's a new one from Electronic Arts (publishers of CYAC) that looks kind
|> of neat. The box says it has a ton of aircraft that it simulates.
|> 
|> I can't remember the name --- someone help me out!!
|> 
|> Is it any good?
|> 

 You are talking about Birds of Prey.  It has 40 aircraft, about 12 are 
Soviet.  There are 12 mission types, from combat to recon to supply drop.
It is a fun game, but I have two problems with it:

The planes all seem to behave the same.  The only real difference in 
the flight models seems to be top speed.

Also, my version locks up in the middle of missions.  I think it has 
to do with using external views, but it is really annoying.  EA's 
tech support wasn't much help.

-Adam
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: bboswell@dante.NMSU.Edu (BOSWELL)
Subject: Help!   On FS4 Aircraft and Scenery Designer...
Organization: New Mexico State University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:07:51 GMT

I have painstakingly duplicated Las Cruces (NM) Crawford field on FS4 Aircraft  
and Scenery Designer, and created a mode to go with it.  The annoying part is,  
however, if I want an airport to be there when I access the mode, I have to go  
into the A&SD menu, unselect Seattle, and Select Las Cruces as the scenery  
library. Any ideas as to how to automatically change the library along with the  
mode?

Also, one thing which is ever-so-slightly annoying is the ground color.   
Contrary to the belief of the Flight Simulator creators, there exists large  
expanses of deserts in the Southwestern United States!!!(They also seem to  
believe crops grow in large sections of the Southwest...in areas which are  
clearly desert from the air!!!).  Any idea of how to change this other than  
drawing large brownish-yellow rectangles all over the place?

I also own SEE, but I have not had a chance to see what it can actually do yet  
besides putting a pretty nifty lighthouse at the end of the runway at Boeing  
Field

Any help would be appreciated!
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: Joysticks
From: David_Martin@kcbbs.gen.nz (David Martin)
Date: 22 Nov 92 16:47:14 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

>I have found CH Products Flight Stick to be the only reliable joystick. 

>All of the others I have used break after a short
>time.

I have an Anolog extra and allthough it has a nice grip it also failed 
after a short period of time.  As with the other joysticks I have had 
it was extreemly twitchy with flight simulators and absolutly hopeless 
with flight simulator.  When using the joystick option on flight simulator 
I found that just adding the slightest pressure on the stick caused 
the control indicator to jump all the way up the scale before coming 
back down as I moved the stick further in that direction.

I've heard a lot about the Flight Stick-does it have a reletivly accurate 
feel to it? 

David Martin
David_Martin@kcbbs.gen.nz
From: dfisher@slipknot.eng.pyramid.com (David Fisher)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Joysticks
Date: 20 Nov 1992 02:04:07 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: slipknot.eng.pyramid.com

Thanks to all of you that responded to my post about Chuck Yeager's Air Combat.
I went out and got it and I like it alot.  Good quick and dirty dog-fighting fun.
I have another question, what are some of the good joysticks for flight/air combat
simulators?  I guess I'm looking for the "best bang for the buck".  

Thanks


       -m---------    David Fisher                Pyramid Technology
     ---mmm-------    (408) 428-8265              3860 North 1st St.
   -----mmmmm-----    dfisher@pyramid.com         San Jose, CA. 95134
 -------mmmmmmm---
From: pettypi@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Carl Pettypiece)
Subject: Re: Joysticks
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 07:23:58 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.033238.23648@nntp.uoregon.edu> margolin@oregon.uoregon.edu (Brian Margolin) writes:
>In article <1ehh2nINNhen@gossip.pyramid.com>,
>dfisher@slipknot.eng.pyramid.com (David Fisher) writes:
>> 
>> Thanks to all of you that responded to my post about Chuck Yeager's Air Combat.
>> I went out and got it and I like it alot.  Good quick and dirty dog-fighting fun.
>> I have another question, what are some of the good joysticks for flight/air combat
>> simulators?  I guess I'm looking for the "best bang for the buck".  
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> 
>>        -m---------    David Fisher                Pyramid Technology
>>      ---mmm-------    (408) 428-8265              3860 North 1st St.
>>    -----mmmmm-----    dfisher@pyramid.com         San Jose, CA. 95134
>>  -------mmmmmmm---    
>> 
>> 
>I have found CH Products Flight Stick to be the only reliable joystick. 
>All of the others I have used break after a short
>time.

May I take this opportunity to thank the net community on
recommending the CH FlightStick?  I had not heard of this until I
had asked a similar question to yours, David.  It seems that
there are two overwhelming favorites: the FlightStick and the Thrustmaster.
Well, the Thrustmaster costs about CDN$200 around here and I
wasn't going to pay that kind of dough for a joystick!  So I
bought the FlightStick for $40.  I'm so happy with it!
Immediately, I saw a difference in my performance in Falcon (I
had two joysticks previously, a QuickShot and a Suncom model
which I can't remember).  I can now fight on par with those
bastards.  Also, the throttle built in works very well in F3, I
can keep in formation with a random plane now, as well as keep on
my foe's tail.  I've also used it in F-117, CYAC, FS4, AotP.
Works great (although the throttle doesn't work well in all of
them :-( ).  It has a large sturdy base, and very nice positive
buttons in the usual thumb and forefinger positions.  The
throttle is a ratcheted wheel of relatively large diameter.  Hope
I'm of some help, David, and thanks again netters!!

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Pettypiece (pettypi@gaul.csd.uwo.ca)        Disclaimer:  Hell, I don't
Department of Computer Science                   even know if these are MY
University of Western Ontario                    opinions!
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: Gavin Adams <gavin.adams@lso.mts.dec.com>
Subject: Re: Yeager's Combat Sim.
X-Xxdate: Mon, 23 Nov 92 16:12:56 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 23:13:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov22.161302.1435@newshost.lanl.gov> David A. Masten,
masten@beta.lanl.gov writes:
>I would still very much like to see better modelling of enemy planes.
>They have the advantage when you fly hifi as they fly the more lenient
>complex model.  Result: they accelerate better, maintain climbs better,
>etc.  You do brake better, but bleed energy much faster in hi-G turns.
>Am I getting to sound like a broken record? :-)
>
>Dave Masten

Yes <click!>

Yes <click!>

Yes <click!>

Yes <click!>

Yes <click!>

:) :) :)

--- Gavin
Visualize Whirled Peas!
From: masten@beta.lanl.gov (David A. Masten)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
Subject: Re: Yeager's Combat Sim.
Date: 22 Nov 92 16:13:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: newshost.1992Nov22.161302.1435
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory

In article <10292326.61335.5160@kcbbs.gen.nz> David_Martin@kcbbs.gen.nz (David Martin) writes:
>
>High fedelity flight model also is extreemly usefull as far as realism 
>goes with the F-16 actually handling differently at low speeds.

The hifi model extends down to only about 300 knots.  Below this it
switches to the complex model.  This is because the hifi model is
derived from the simulator SH did for the air force.  That sim was for
dogfighting/situational awareness, which was presumed to take place at
higher speeds.  So they never bothered to develop a strong <300 knot
flight model.  Not sure what speeds you were referring to, but thought
you would be interested anyway.  (the above info is from a magazine
interview of Marisa "No. 19" Ong of SH).

I would still very much like to see better modelling of enemy planes.
They have the advantage when you fly hifi as they fly the more lenient
complex model.  Result: they accelerate better, maintain climbs better,
etc.  You do brake better, but bleed energy much faster in hi-G turns.
Am I getting to sound like a broken record? :-)

Dave Masten
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators
From: margolin@oregon.uoregon.edu (Brian Margolin)
Subject: Re: Joysticks
Organization: Institute of Molecular Biology
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 03:32:38 GMT

In article <1ehh2nINNhen@gossip.pyramid.com>,
dfisher@slipknot.eng.pyramid.com (David Fisher) writes:
> 
> Thanks to all of you that responded to my post about Chuck Yeager's Air Combat.
> I went out and got it and I like it alot.  Good quick and dirty dog-fighting fun.
> I have another question, what are some of the good joysticks for flight/air combat
> simulators?  I guess I'm looking for the "best bang for the buck".  
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
>        -m---------    David Fisher                Pyramid Technology
>      ---mmm-------    (408) 428-8265              3860 North 1st St.
>    -----mmmmm-----    dfisher@pyramid.com         San Jose, CA. 95134
>  -------mmmmmmm---    
> 
> 
I have found CH Products Flight Stick to be the only reliable joystick. 
All of the others I have used break after a short
time.
From: hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games
Subject: COMDEX - CH Yoke
Date: 21 Nov 92 08:09:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Nov21.080956.10045
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Forgot what the exact name is (see game magazine ad), but I tried out
this yoke at Comdex -- fantastic.  Easy but firm attachment to the 
table, even those with only 2" edge on the bottom side, while giving
easy pushing and pulling.

The guy said it will sell for $100, didn't ask whether list or street.
Unless the MAXX yoke, this one work fantistically with ease.  Go buy one. 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.simulators