HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ambar@cygnus.com (Jean Marie Diaz)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: Pregnancy and between--vaguely MU*-centered, be warned.
Date: 11 Sep 92 00:10:42 GMT
Organization: Redheads Anonymous
In-reply-to: jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca's message of Thu, 10 Sep 92 18:50:07 GMT

In article <92Sep10.185007.23168@acs.ucalgary.ca> jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell) writes:

   My question is - how do you stay in /between/ for a few extra
   seconds? It takes 7 to go anywhere on Pern, and I don't think you
   can ask your dragon to hold you there....

Think again.  Remember, all the Thread-fighting scenes, mention is made
of how critical it is to come out of *Between* at the proper time..
otherwise, you risk coming out directly into a Thread clump.

				AMBAR
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: quirk@pioneer.unm.edu (Gym Z. Quirk)
Subject: Re: Names of weyrbred
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 03:47:16 GMT
Organization: Nit-Pickers for a Better Tomorow Afternoon

In article <1992Sep13.230044.2035@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> naraht@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu (Randolph J. Finder) writes:
>[Description of the "T'kil" problem]
>
>So the score is 2-2, any sort of logic to this or is this an inconsistency
>in the books?

In the past, this has been explained as...

1) Been explained away as an mistake on Anne's part similar to the
"What color was Lytol's dragon?" problem.

2) Massive case of presumption and snootiness on the part of Kylara.

>(naraht@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu)	| Leadership,Friendship, and Service
>(vri_rjfin@dmis.ha.osd.mil)	|          Alpha Phi Omega
>(tnc!m0039@uunet.uu.net)	| National (Co-ed) Service Fraternity


-- 
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk  (Known to some as Taki Kogoma)  quirk@pioneer.unm.edu
 I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to
                          what I have now...
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: brown, green, and blue riders
From: ppugliese@pimacc.pima.edu
Date: 15 Sep 92 03:04:09 -0700
 ry.ca><1992Sep14.042108.2038@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> <35006@hoptoad.uucp>

In article <35006@hoptoad.uucp>, ambar@cygnus.com (Jean Marie Diaz) writes:
> 
> Oh, the freshmen have arrived and we can rehash all the grand
> discussions once more... :-)
> 
> In article <1992Sep14.042108.2038@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> naraht@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu (Randolph J. Finder) writes:
> 
>    Mirrim is supposed to be the first female green rider in memory. I'm sure
>    that this is brought up yearly if not more often, but what sort of 
>    sexual union if any occurs between the riders during a brown-green
>    or blue-green mating? (both male) In Moreta, there is a blue rider who times
>    it so he can be at the bedside of a close friend who rides a green.
>    The way it is written makes me think that this relationship is a very close
>    one...
> 
> Not only that, but Moreta remarks of Sh'gall that, being holdbred, he
> has no understanding of, or sympathy for, the "associations of blue and
> green riders".  It's very clearly implied throughout the series that
> many green riders are weyrmated with brown or blue riders, and therefore
> gay or bi.  Consider the brown and green pair that we meet at the
> MasterSmithHall in Dragonquest_, whose riders argue with F'nor.
> 
> 				

The gay/bi part comes later & isn't really presented in the altercation
involving F'nor. In fact _Dragonflight_ has the riders whose dragons
mate during the rising of a Green grabbing women from the lower caverns
& stumbling off to their weyrs. The "special" realtion does appear in
_Moreta_ though so either weyr society changed between then & the pre-
sent pass or AM was reflecting changes in attitude within our current
society. (Probably the latter, IMHO)

PHIL

Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: slf@netcom.com (Sharon Fisher)
Subject: Re: brown, green, and blue riders
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 16:00:55 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

ppugliese@pimacc.pima.edu writes:

>The gay/bi part comes later & isn't really presented in the altercation
>involving F'nor. 

Perhaps not in so many words, but it seems pretty obvious from context.

In fact _Dragonflight_ has the riders whose dragons
>mate during the rising of a Green grabbing women from the lower caverns
>& stumbling off to their weyrs. 

Sorry, no.  Stumbling off to the Lower Caverns, yes.  Nothing about
women is mentioned.

The "special" realtion does appear in
>_Moreta_ though so either weyr society changed between then & the pre-
>sent pass or AM was reflecting changes in attitude within our current
>society. (Probably the latter, IMHO)

Agreed.

It's also mentioned in The White Dragon, when Jaxom is watching a
mating flight and the realization suddenly hits him that yes, riders
have homosexual sex with each other during a mating, and he's shocked
by this and wonders if that is the reason why Ruth doesn't rise.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: venkman@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mezo)
Subject: Re: dragonsfire muse
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1992 22:30:25 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523



Though I agree with you, Alt.Fan.Pernn is not the place for Muse/Mush questions some people will post here. Your teqnique of humiliting people online is shared with many others and so finally I have snapped and post what may be considered a flame.


Elf-Kin did ask a question about DragonsfireMuse..This is not the place for that sort of question...But typing 'R' will send her your reply rather than getting upset and wasting your so precious bandwidth.


I typed 'R' and sent her the answer she needed. Had she asked me on DragonsFire I would have helped her there...Some people are shy or just dont recieve the attention they need to get set up on a MU*. The problem has been solved.

As to posting MU* related materials on A.F.P....The MU*'s are the biggest association short of the fan clubs where people go to enjoy that atmosphere of pern...but interactively. Most of the questions asked here are by the MU*ers who have a question they want answered for their own knowledge or to settle a dispute at one of those places.

As is allways the caveat is....Put Up or shut up. If you dont like to see MU* related stuff here at all then make a concerted effort to keep threads going/add new threads and generally keep the knowledge of pern going.

Otherwise, just hit 'n' and skip the damn message.


Theron Croissant
AKA Th'ron Rider of Wulfrith/DragonsFire Muse.

Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: eog@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Vicki Finkenstadt)
Subject: Gold Rising of DF
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:21:58 GMT


((insert description of Fort Weyr bowl))

This portion of the bowl is filled with crafters, holders, and weyrfolk who
wish to spectate at the mating flight. You find a comfortable seat,
nodding politely to those around you.

Your attention is drawn to the feeding pens where the great bronze and brown 
and even a few blue dragons blood their kills, waiting for the gold queen to
rise. 

A shadow crosses over the bowl, and you look up to see the light metallic
hide of the queen. Gold Magdaleth wings down to the feeding pens hissing
at the male dragons. She launches herself and snatches a large buck and 
rends the flesh at its throat. She screams and then sucks the blood.

The other gold riders have taken their queens from the Weyr and the
lone gold rider staggers across the bowl from the weyrs in the north
oblivious to the spectators wrapped in rapport with her dragon. The 
dragonriders surround her.

The vibrant Gold dragon lifts her bloody muzzle in defiance to the 
other dragons and then is aloft in one quick bound. She quickly
gains altitude and the flight has begun.

Come and celebrate life with us at DragonsFire (pioneer.unm.edu 4444)
Friday, September 11. 8:00 p.m. CST (that's 9 p.m. on the east coast)
Everyone welcome!

Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Weyrwoman seniority
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 15:28:28 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1992Sep9.033007.24648@u.washington.edu>, rosebud@carson.u.washington.edu (June Bug) writes:
> Does anybody have any theories on exactly how the seniority of 
> weyrwomen goes?  It occured to me thatit could be either age of 
> of the dragon with no respect to dragon generations (as many
> gold dragons could be older than their aunts with five yearsor less
> between generations), age of the dragon with respect to generations,
> or age of the rider.

Off the top of my head, not looking at any books, I would say that it is a
combination of age of the dragon and age and responsibility of the rider.

I believe that older dragons in the Weyr would look after the hatchlings and
teach by example, thus they would be looked up to by the younger dragons even
after they reached maturity (the same way humans respect their caretakers even
after they've brown up and moved out of the house). So the mother would
probably be senior all their lives, but a younger aunt wouldn't.

The rider must have something to do with it as well. A more responsible rider
makes a more responsible, and older seeming dragon. Thus I think if one were
slightly younger but the rider was more adult, I suspect that one would be more
senior. I can't imagine that Ramoth's mother would have been senior if she had
anyone else to contest with, because of her slovenly rider, even if the other
queen were considerably younger.
 
> It matters which when you consider that Kylara spent four years "out"
> of time.  Time enough to hatch one clutch with her Prideth, which is 
> the same number Ramoth had.  So when they came back they had lived four
> years "out" of time together, plus however much time before they went
> back.  How old was Ramoth at the time?  Were they the same age?

I never thought about it, but I suppose they were the same age chronologically.
Can anyone verify? Even so, Ramoth shuld be senior, being the mother.
 
> And this also brings to mind a later reference comparing Wireneth and
> Prideth, as if they were both young beasts, where its seems to me
> that Prideth is nearly as old, or older than Ramoth!

Well, they didn't say that Ramoth was old...maybe the comparison was between
Prideth and the Oldtimer beasts, or between Prideth and a hypothetical dragon
the age of Ramoth's mother (whose name escapes me).
 
> What do you think?
> 
> Clarica
> rosebud@u.washington.edu

Guess I just told you.

--Semhaza
From: tjf@adl.dmt.csiro.au (Thomas Fung)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: more on bespeaking
Date: 8 Sep 92 03:42:20 GMT
Organization: CSIRO Division of Manufacturing Technology, Adelaide, Australia


> 5. Aramina can talk to any dragon, and also ...

Could someone tell me who she is, presuming Aramina is a female,
what novel/story she's in and general opinions about such novel/story
which I probably haven't read ?  Without being too spoiling please :)

I've read most of the Pern Dragonrider books but can't recall anyone
called Aramina.


Cheers,

Tom

---
Thomas J. Fung                                tjf@adl.dmt.csiro.au

CSIRO Division of Manufacturing Technology  -  Adelaide Laboratory
Leeds Crescent,  Woodville North,  South Australia,  5012
From: venkman@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mezo)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: Aramina
Date: 12 Sep 92 16:49:09 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

RE: Bitra Hold and the infamous actions of its namsake Avril Bitra.

DragonsDawn makes a point of showing how some of the colonists saw what she did as Heroic...discounting Sallah Telgars actions.

Bart Lemos and Mr Nabol also have holds named after them.

The DLG notes how proud the residents are of the ancestor...

Usually in history, the victors write the accounts...In Pernese history there was no clear victor and so several factions wrote their own.

Theron Croissant
Th'ron rider of Wulfrith, DragonsFire Muse.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: eog@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Vicki Finkenstadt)
Subject: ::between::
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:42:17 GMT

So what exactly is between?
WE knows it is cold.
Radiation? Vacuum? Nothingness?

And it's effects on people?
dragons?

(pardon the tyos)
.
From: naraht@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu (Randolph J. Finder)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Names of weyrbred
Date: 13 Sep 92 23:00:44 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

I was re-reading dragonflight(1st book) and noticed something odd.
When Kylara bears her first child (sired by T'bor) lessa comments to
F'lar that it was better that she named it T'kil rather than T'lar to
keep there from being any confusion and yet F'lar and lessa's son is named
felassan (shortened to f'lessan when he impresses)

So does the shortened form imply EITHER weyrbred or rider?
Are there any other examples of sons born in the weyr in any of the books
other than n'mekke (sp?) to n'ton and brekke in AtWoP?

(Just remembered another example. K'van is Keevan before impression in
the littlest dragonrider, yet appearantly weyrbred)

So the score is 2-2, any sort of logic to this or is this an inconsistency
in the books?


Randy Finder
(n'raht, rider of blue greneth)
-- 
(naraht@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu)	| Leadership,Friendship, and Service
(vri_rjfin@dmis.ha.osd.mil)	|          Alpha Phi Omega
(tnc!m0039@uunet.uu.net)	| National (Co-ed) Service Fraternity
"Service to others is the rent that we pay for living on the planet"(quote?)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: re:ages
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 23:56:40 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <BuBwL1.A9z@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v099mvpz@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Marko) writes:
> 
> 
> 	IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, PRIDETH WAS OF RAMOTH'S FIRST 
> 	HATCHING. RAMOTH WAS TWO OR THREE TURNS OLD AT THE TIME.

I'll second that--you are correct here.

> 	HOWEVER, I DON'T THINK THAT RAMOTH AND LESSA WOULD HAVE 
> 	REPLACED NEMORTH AND JORA UNTIL NEMORTH COULDN'T LAY
> 	ANYMORE. SOMETHING OF THIS NATURE IS HINTED AT IN _THE
> 	WHITE DRAGON_ WHEN RAMOTH'S EGG WAS STOLEN. SOMEONE (I
> 	THINK IT WAS ROBINTON) SAID NEITHER MARDRA NOR MERIKA 
> 	WOULD WISH TO BE REPLACED BY A YOUNG QUEEN, AS BOTH
> 	DRAGONS WERE PAST PRIME AGE.

I'll go with the idea that a non-laying queen would be replaced, as it is their
primary duty to reproduce. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that a laying
queen couldn't be replaced. If a Weyrwoman was incapable and a suitable
replacement was available, wouldn't people turn to the more capable weyrwoman
to run the Weyr? It could be gradual, I suppose. But I don't think that
everyone at every time would feel so bound by tradition as to let an
incompetent totally ruin the Weyr--although it *did* almost happen.

>       ALSO, WIRENTH AND BREKKE
> 	COULDN'T REPLACE PRIDETH AND KYLARA AT SOUTHERN OR HIGH
> 	REACHES, REGARDLESS OF THE FACT THAT KYLARA WAS A SCHMUCK.

Kylara wasn't just a schmuck, she was also a very powerful person, and
dominated Brekke effectively. This made her position stronger than it already
was due to tradition. Brekke did a lot of the practical running of the Weyr,
but not the flashy leadership elements--and I think she would have been
unsuitable for them, though better than the insane Kylara.
 
> 			JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION
> 					MARKO

--Semhaza
From: quirk@pioneer.unm.edu (Gym Z. Quirk)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: Aramina
Date: 8 Sep 92 22:59:26 GMT
Organization: Space and Planetary Image Facility

In article <1992Sep8.210508.27833@news.iastate.edu> txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:
>She is a primary chericter in Renagades, is mentioned is DragonDrums and 
>All The Wyers of Pern and dragons arnt the only things she hears as her
>telepathic abilits arstrong.

Where'd Aramina show up in 'Drums?

[Makes a note to re-read H3 when he gets home tonight. ;-)]

>ELF-KIN

-- 
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk  (Known to some as Taki Kogoma)  quirk@pioneer.unm.edu
 I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to
                          what I have now...
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: rick@ee.uwm.edu (Rick Miller)
Subject: Born Free
Organization: No organization, just me.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 20:41:36 GMT

There was a recent thread of discussion about Post-AtWoP Pern...
It got me thinking.  What could happen when dragons aren't so necessary?
What if restrictions got lax, and one was hatched, but not impressed?!?

---------

   There was a sudden disturbance among the runnerbeasts, an all too
familiar sound.  The alarm was sounded and the soldiers scurried for
their weapons to man the herders' lookout.
   "She's blooding!" shouted an apprentice.
   The only word from the mouth of Lord Holder Zhoren was "Fardles."
High overhead he saw the browns convening.  In his mind he saw his
fortune lying bloodless on the plain.  Twice in one month.  What luck.
   The occasional theft he could handle, but two all-out raids in a
single month would probably break him.  His family had long since lost
good credit, and insurance rates are outrageous when you own span upon
span of the planet's most accommodating volcanic mountains.
   Riddled with warm caves, the mountains provided a perfect nesting
place for the wild greens.  The Lord Holder's face was a stony picture
of malediction for the careless rider who had first led one there.
Who would have guessed it would come to this?
   Tiny thunderclaps rang out from the herders' lookout.  It would be
some time before the soldiers could also bring the heavy gun to bear.
It had never been tried, for fear of offending Shhtolpth.  All this
secrecy... hiding from eyes in the sky.
   Suddenly a sound louder than the most violent thunder wrenched the
air.  It was all too sudden.  The green raised her head, looking for a
third herdbeast, and then her head snapped foreward and her whole body
instantly went limp and fell to the ground with a horrible thud.  The
shot had hit her in the neck, it seemed.  Luck indeed may change.
   Overhead the kreening began.  Below, preparations for the coming
strike were well under way.  This part, at least, had been tested.
   "Head for the halls!" was the dominant cry.  Ancient passages had
found new use.  The whole population streamed quickly through the bronze
doors in a well-rehearsed drill.
   Lord Zhoren stood calmly, as was his gift, ensuring the execution
of some critical details.  "Ready the batteries," he said, "and open the
spillways.  Leave the beasts, we won't have time."  The browns were 
already descending when the metallic doors closed.
   "Ignite the firewall" said the Lord Holder, and in a moment was seen
the glow of flame through the seam of the doors.
   'Perhaps it's not that bad...' thought Lord Zhoren.  'After all, she
was only a green, and these only browns.'  The whole affair was really a
spur-of-the-moment sort of thing, not like the massacre at Fort Weyr when
wild Shhtolpth had assumed control.  He doubted though, whether there
would be much at all left of his Hold when it was over... and he wondered
if Shhtolpth would let him get away with it!

---------
Rick Miller   <rick@ee.uwm.edu> | <rick@discus.mil.wi.us>   Ricxjo Muelisto
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: rfe@arisia.kodak.COM (Bob Ecklund 588-0582)
Subject: Re: Aramina
Reply-To: rfe@arisia.kodak.COM (Bob Ecklund 588-0582)
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 17:52:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.052840.6468@muddcs.claremont.edu>,
nlaughli@jarthur.claremont.edu (Neil S. Laughlin) writes:
|>In article <92Sep09.021700.25012@acs.ucalgary.ca>
jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell) writes:
|>>
|>>As for her telepathic prowess, she claims to hear 'something sad,
|>>so I don't try to hear it'. People have suggested the dolphins,
|>>but they are neither telepathic, nor a singular, and probably not
|>>very sad. I favour Aivas as a candidate. It gets 2 out of three
|>>(sad, as it can't complete its objectives, a singular, and who
|>>knows what Aramina can pick up).
|>>
|>>Joshua
|>>| Tremble only if you build false accounts and stand pridefully upon
them    |
|>>|                                       - Lord Leto II, God Emperor
of Dune  |
|>>|                                                                    
|
|>>| jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca  Academic Computing Services, University of
Calgary |
|>>
|>>
|>
|>
|>	I have an alternate theory, that, although not terribly likely, is
|>definitely worth mentioning.  Maybe Aramina is hearing...
|>
|>The Thread.
|>
|>	After all, AIVAS stated that the Thread is probably an intelligent
|>lifeform in the Oort Cloud- there's no reason for it not to be a hive mind
|>out there.  It certainly is sad, since it's dying and being infected by all
|>kinds of hostile organisms.  And, as Joshua said, there's no telling just
|>what Aramina can hear.
|>
|>	Any comments?
                              
I've often thought that Aramina is hearing dragons who have gone
between. Being anywhen,
or just passing through her time a dragon may be reaching out of between.

Another thought is that there is a queen without the proper canddate
calling her, again, perhaps through time.

Disclaimer: My opinions are my own and not necessarily those of my dragon.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: tyrie@lynx.cs.washington.edu (Tyrie Grubic)
Subject: Re: Weyrwoman seniority
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering Dept., Univ. of Washington, Seattle
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 16:30:52 GMT

I recall that it was strictly age of dragon, based on birthdate and not
worrying about the out-of-time business. However, (as in Moreta) a 
WeyrWoman might retire to let someone younger take over the responsibilities.

Also, it would seem completely reasonable that if the person who should be
WeyrWoman were not capable of it that the "next in line" might take over.
This would, however, be non-standard; a special case only.  Most queen
riders were capable of being WeyrWoman.

Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: mortoncp@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Christopher P Morton)
Subject: Re: The red planet
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 03:31:06 GMT


In article <1992Sep13.233058.15388@newsroom.utas.edu.au>  
u920065@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Dean Bailey) writes:
> What exactly is on the red planet.
> 
> I seem to remember in Dragon's Dawn that one of the characters( I forget  
the
> name as its been a while) tries to reach the planet and states 'oh no  
its...'
> before her ship is destroyed.
> 

You're thinking of Avril Bitra and her unwanted trip to the Red Star as  
it's later called.  

Basically, the planet is a rogue that was caught by the system's star.   
Its orbit takes it in a cometary path that collects objects from the Oort  
Cloud and then passes close to Pern, releasing these objects to spiral  
down into the atmosphere and become Thread.  The planet itself is little  
more than an ice covered rock.  The atmosphere has already burned away  
from repeated passes close to the star.  The ice melting and some of the  
objects circulating around gave the temporary poisonous atmosphere that  
F'nor and Canth encountered in their brief visit.

The planet is well described in the book "All the Weyrs of Pern".

Did I miss anything, folks?

--  Long Live the Memory of Gene Roddenberry
---------------------------------------------------------
--  Chris Morton   mortoncp@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern