Newsgroups: alt.med.cfs
Date:         Sat, 19 Dec 1992 22:36:26 PST
              <CFS-L@NIHLIST.BITNET>
From:         John Setel O'Donnell <jod@EQUATOR.COM>
Subject:      Re: Lyme Disease/Garlic-Vit.C 'Cure' ...

    >The claims of "fibromyalgia" are just the latest round of emotional,
    >irrational claims without factual basis made by primarily by
    >rheumatologists trying to protect their research monies by denying the
    >now conclusive evidence that long-term Lyme symptoms result from
    >persistent spirochetal infection, not some "post-Lyme syndrome" or its
    >newer name, "fibromyalgia."

    I will leave it to the other readers of this list to reach their own
    conclusions about who is indulging in "emotional, irrational claims
    without factual basis".  We've had this out before in sci.med, where as
    I recall you didn't get a very sympathetic audience.  The slandering of
    Dr. Sigal in your next post (to which I won't bother repling) was in
    response to my post there.

Well, we haven't really had this out on sci.med.  Not a single response
has been posted to any of the citations of persistent infection.  I
believe that certain parties have stopped listening; that does not
mean that the issue is settled.

I invite you to post any references to papers which refute the work
of Liegner, Preac-Mursic, and others which document antibiotic
resistent persistent infection.


    seems like just a mention of fibromyalgia makes starts you foaming at
    the mouth.  My sole interest in this matter is in helping patients feel
    better.  I get no kickbacks from insurance companies for my posts.  I
    don't even accept pens from drug reps.

I *do* start foaming at the mouth at the mention of fibromyalgia,
because its usage suggests some cause other than persistent infection.
Steere, Sigal, et al. are denying the existence of persistent infection.
Look at their publication history.  Their denial is responsible for
the denial of research monies which could lead to an end to suffering.

    Whether or not there is persistence of Borrelia bergdorferi after an
    adequate course of Rocephin is unimportant, although I think the
    evidence is against it.

Could you say, "Whether or not the AIDS virus is amenable to treatment
is unimportant, although I think the evidence is against it."????  Bb
is responsible for massive amounts of suffering.  Determining its
mechanisms of persistence and appropriate therapies to eradicate it
is the CENTRAL CHALLENGE IN LYME RESEARCH.  Or should be.  It would be
were it not for denial.  Please cite a single reference which refutes
the papers I have cited showing persistent infection.  Explain how
your position is based on fact rather than emotion or prejudice.


    What *is* important is what treatment results
    in the most improvement.  Conspiracy theories and name-calling don't
    carry much weight with me.  Scientific studies published in peer-
    reviewed journals do.  If you know of a study that says that long-term,
    high-dose antibiotics (or garlic and vitamin C for that matter) makes
    more patients feel better than treating "chronic Lyme disease" as
    fibromyalgia, please post the references (something more than a
    reference to an abstract).  By the way, did you ever follow up on my
    suggestion that you try treatment for fibromyalgia?  If not, please
    reconsider it.

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my post.  My post calls for RESEARCH MONEY,
not universal long-term antibiotic treatment.  I have personal
experience with long term treatment and know many others who do.  I
know that those of us with late Lyme on long term treatment are the
ones who are working, as opposed to the ones who are disabled.  I have
no illusions that it constitutes a cure, and I understand that the
therapies for fibromyalgia have an important role to play -- UNTIL WE
LEARN HOW TO ERADICATE THE DISEASE.  And we are not working nearly
hard enough to learn how.

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