HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 09:34:43 MST
From: yackd@virginia.et.byu.edu (Don Yacktman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Distribution: world
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
Subject: Re: When Will NeXTSTep Become Drag and Drop


In article <1is562INNm5r@transfer.stratus.com>, jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann) writes:
>
>I've been using NeXTStep 3.0 for a couple of months now
>(and have been using NeXT since release 1.0).  I have one
>question/peeve: when will the user interface become true
>drag and drop?  
>
>Yes, I can drag documents into the Windows of certain apps. But 
>I can't:
>
>--  Drag a document into an application to open it under that
>    application
>
>--  Drag a document to the printer icon to print it
>
>--  Drag a document to a "viewer" application to view the
>    contents

Check the 3.0 user manual or the 3.0 tips for power users in the
recent NeXTWorld magazine.  You can open a document in a given app
by command dragging it onto the app's tile.  (at the bottom of the
screen or the dock.)

As to printing that way, there's an app on sonata (the name escapes
me, something like DockPrint) that let's you print out files.  As
I recall, it did ascii and rtf.  A more general solution from NeXT
for this would be nice...for example, set up a consistent API to
apps with printable documents and then when a doc is dropped on a
"printer" app (kind of like the recycler) the doc is loaded into
the proper app and the print panel comes up...

As to a viewer app, if vendors create the proper image filters for
their documents (to basically turn a doc into a static eps image)
this would work fine...it depends on developers, not NeXT.  NeXT put
in more hooks than most folks are aware of, and now it's the
developer's turn to show what can be done (assuming they know :)  )

Hope that helps.  I posted since I though someone else might care
to see the answer to this.  Hope I got it right. :-)

Later,
-Don Yacktman

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: vhs@rhein-main.de (Volker Herminghaus-Shirai)
Subject: Re: End of the Year (was Re: End of NeXT)
Reply-To: vhs@rhein-main.de
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 00:38:35 GMT

In article <1993Jan04.002408.1206@microsoft.com> edwardj@microsoft.com (Edward  
Jung) writes:
> vhs@rhein-main.de writes:
> 
> >Designed by lusers - Ack! So there is nobody at MS with enough vision
> >to really improv(tm) end-user productivity except maybe for the guys
> >working on the caleida project which is likely to be outdated when
> >and if it comes to market?
[stuff deleted]
> Kaleida is a joint project between IBM and Apple. Microsoft
> is not involved in Kaleida -- we have a different project
> for information at your fingertips multimedia and portable
> and consumer computing issues.

Sorry, I meant Cairo

--
Volker Herminghaus-Shirai (vhs@qb.rhein-main.de), NeXTmail welcome

Looks good on the outside, but -
	intel inside
From: dillon@overload.Berkeley.CA.US (Matthew Dillon)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re:  End of NeXT
Distribution: world
Date: 8 Jan 93 16:52:45 PST
Organization: Not an Organization

>	My main complaint about the NeXT printer is not that it's output is
>	lousy (until recently, it was very nice--perhaps slightly better
>	than the RET output at 300dpi from HP), nor that it is terribly
>	slow (it's not, it just slows down the machine, especially on low
>	memory).  My main complaint is not against the *printer* other
>	than it's outrageous pricing.  The complaint is that NeXT went out
>	of their way to go into *yet another market* which did nothing to
>	encourage developer support.  Then they took advantage of the
>	virtual monopoly they created (parallel may be slow, but
>	serial is *agony*--and ethernet brings the price of competitors
>	up to make it not worthwhile) and gouged their users for
>	an obscene price.
>
>	As far as I'm concerned, this just gives another example of
>	NeXT's market(less) mentality.

    Ditto.

				    -Matt


>--
>      Blaming "society" for your problems is like blaming clouds for rain.
> ---  boycott == coercion == censorship == closed mindedness == cowardice  ---
>	      "Psalms 23:1  The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want."
>		Shepherds are for sheep.   -----      Pain teaches.

--

    Matthew Dillon		dillon@Overload.Berkeley.CA.US
    1005 Apollo Way		uunet.uu.net!overload!dillon
    Incline Village, NV. 89451	ham: KC6LVW (no mail drop)
    USA 			Sandel-Avery Engineering (702)831-8000

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Subject: What is with the advertising in NeXTworld?
Reply-To: jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 10:49:49 GMT
Keywords: advertising sexism unlabeled-RTF-posts

So far, I've seen two companies advertise their products in NeXTworld  
 
with sex as the attention-grabbing feature.  Rightbrain has the shot of a painting of a suprised looking woman and Chromagrafx has the shot of a sleepy-looking (supposed to be sexy-looking probably) woman.  It's really getting to be the level of other advertisers who have bi 
 
kini-clad models holding equipment of one sort or another.  In Rightbrain's ad, they even wasted an entire page to bring NeXTworld readers that sexist crap.  That ad was a real fall from the humourous and non-offensive "If I push this pencil..." ad.

If the product can't be sold on it's own merits, I guess those folks feel they need some sex-boost to make it sell.  However, what they fail to notice is that if it can't sell on it's own merits, there's no reason for anyone to buy it.  If it's that good, show screen shots, show panels associated with the program, show the program in action, not some sexist drivel.

Someone that both these companies can learn from is Stone Design.  No b.s. with Stone Design.  They talk about their product, and only their product.  They realize that their products can sell based on the fact that they are high-quality merchandise.  The only thing I would suggest to them is to change the color of the word "Design" in their logo to something that is a little more readable.

NeXT app companies who seek to advertise: please don't fall into the trap of offe 
 
nding your readers because you think that 'sex sells'.  It doesn't reflect well on people you'd like to make your customers; men and women alike.  Just because the people in Computer Shopper do it (among other places) doesn't mean you have to.  After all, you are selling your product, not a woman.

On the side,  when it comes to posting to USENET, if you're posting RTF, please label it.  Yet another advertisement from Glenn Reid came out that wasn't labeled as RTF when it was RTF.  It takes so little time to label posts properly and not piss off people who pay for their news.
-- 
-- Jeff (jeffo@uiuc.edu)
-- NeXTmail welcome
 both these companies can learn from is Stone Design.  No b.s. with Stone Design.  They talk about their product, and only their product.  They realize that their products can sell based on the fact that they are high-quality merchandise.  The only thing I would suggest to them is to change the color of the word "Design" in their logo to something that is a little more readable.

NeXT app companies who seek to advertise: please don't fall into the trap of offe
From: glenn@rightbrain.com (Glenn Reid)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXT: Economist Article
Date: 10 Jan 93 01:13:27 GMT
Reply-To: glenn@rightbrain.com


Samuel M. Goldberger writes

> > RSun wants to kill us,S laments Mr lobs. It may succeed.
> 
> And here I thought the British used language so beautifully! 
> 
> Come to think of it, the image of Mr. Lobs slamenting the murderous  
intention  
> of RSun is really quite moving.

For some reason this reminds me of the movie "A Fish Called Wanda".

K-K-K-K-K-Ken's going to k-k-k-k-kill me.

--
 Glenn Reid        		NeXTmail: glenn@rightbrain.com
 RightBrain Software		415-326-2974 (NeXTfax 326-2977)
 Palo Alto, California		Electronic Frontier Foundation, member #054
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: terry@squid9.cuc.ab.ca (Terry Wilcox)
Subject: Re: NeXT: Economist Article
Reply-To: terry@squid9.cuc.ab.ca
Organization: Not Really, Inc.
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 17:20:57 GMT

In article <726037340.AA00000@blkcat.UUCP>  
Mitch.Alland@p956.f70.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Mitch Alland) writes:
> Here's the article on NeXT in the December 12 issue of the Economist:
> 
> Next Computer
> Jobs's lot
> 
> The word in Silicon Valley is that Steve Jobs is a dangerous man: unlike
> almost everyone else in the computer business, he is not in it for the money.
> Just as well. Since being ousted in 1985 from Apple Computer, the company he
> co-founded, Mr ]obs has been struggling to make a success of NeXT Computer,
> his new venture. It has yet to turn a profit.
> 

I'm still curious as to where the Economist got this information. NeXT doesn't  
release financial information.

> 
> NeXT software tends to make instant converts of even the most hardened
> skeptics. When Mr Jobs first showed it to John Akers, I BM s chairman, Mr
> Akers was so impressed he did a $10m license deal with NeXT on the spot.  
(True
> to form, I BM has as yet done nothing with the technology.) So why has NeXT
> languished?
> 

IBM did lots with the technology. They just didn't do it in an acceptable  
manner. It seems the Economist is glossing over some facts.

> 
> The changes are proving costly. Japan's Canon -- the biggest shareholder in
> NeX'I', which is not publicly quoted this year added another $55m to the  
$100m
> it chipped in to help launch the firm. R&D is consuming  around 10% of NeXT s
> 

Canon did not give NeXT $55 million. It opened a line of credit for $55  
million. If the Economist doesn't make that distinction, it hasn't done a good  
job of investigating the article. Also, Steve Jobs is the biggest shareholder  
in NeXT, not Canon.

Why do people care about this article? There's no new information and it  
contains some obvious inaccuracies. The only people that will worry about it  
are those who don't already keep up with NeXT news.

Terry Wilcox



-- 
Terry Wilcox		| 'Next to the originator of a good sentence 
terry@squid9.cuc.ab.ca	| is the first quoter of it.'
NeXTmail welcome	|  - RALPH WALDO EMERSON
Xref: sparky comp.sys.next.advocacy:3619 comp.sys.next.hardware:3215 comp.sys.next.misc:23654
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Sunday, 10 Jan 1993 13:40:49 MST
From: <ASODL@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.hardware,comp.sys.next.misc
Subject: Re: Richard Page resigns ...

I will try and follow with the exact article listing and reference information
later this week on this matter.

In addition to the information you listed about Richard Page's resignation, the
blurb in the Friday, Jan. 8th edition of the Tempe Tribune (Tempe, AZ) relative
to this also mentioned that he was burnt out and would probably start a company
of his own.

Also, and somewhat of a surprise, this article announced that NeXT was DROPPING
support of NeXTWorld if I recall correctly.  Like a hot rock is how it sounded
to me.
From: alex@cs.umd.edu (Alex Blakemore)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: When Will NeXTSTep Become Drag and Drop
Date: 11 Jan 93 19:34:22 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <1is562INNm5r@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:
> [How can I ] Drag a document to a "viewer" application to view the contents [?]

several ways,

  press the command key or bar, and drop the document icon on the dock's WorkSpace icon
(the NeXT cube).  this will open the document using whatever the default app is for
that document type, just as if you'ld double clicked.

  command - drag and drop onto the Preview icon should display an EPS or TIFF view
of the document if the appropriate filter services have been installed 
(if I understand filter services correctly).  This will improve as more apps
fully take advantage of 3.0 features.

  look at the doc using FileViewer's content inspector (command-2).  again, this is a 3.0
feature (well at least the ability to customize it) that requires application support.
its better than in 2.1 and should improve.
-- 
---------------------------------------------------
Alex Blakemore alex@cs.umd.edu   NeXT mail accepted
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: billb@nasty (Bill Burcham)
Subject: Re: What is with the advertising in NeXTworld?
Organization: First National Bank Of Chicago, Chicago IL, USA
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 16:45:52 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.133955.3260@cis.ohio-state.edu>  
tbrown@anaconda.cis.ohio-state.edu (ted croft brown) writes:
> In article <C0pqvH.BJ2@ccu.umanitoba.ca> tacchi@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Mark  
G. Tacchi) writes:
> 
> >Michael Jackson worked on some ads with Pepsi and what they tried and  
succeed
> >at doing was link up the feeling that a large populous gains when  
listening to
> >MJ and transfer that feeling to their product.  This isn't really  
apparent
> >until you become aware of what they are trying to do and is actually 
> >interesting in how the human mind will capture and associate this  
feeling to
> >something that was previously regarded with nuetral or negative  
associations.
> >
> 
> Never really thought about it *that* way.  Maybe thats why I HATE Pepsi  
so
> much.  I mean I am a severe Coke Addict (the kind that comes in those  
little
> Red Cans....) so you'd think that I could at least force some Pepsi down  
my
> throat when dying of thirst. But...I just can't stand the stuff.
> 
> Oh...so when's Hershey coming out with the new bar?  I'll buy enough to  
gain
> about 10 pounds or so.....
> 
> >-Mark
> >-- 
> >Mark G. Tacchi                                    
tacchi@next01.cc.umanitoba.ca
>  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ted Brown		tbrown@cis.ohio-state.edu
> 			tbrown@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
> 

Looks like the Coke ads worked well on you.

Bill
From: gaia@wam.umd.edu (L. Anathea Brooks)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Gosip in 1993
Date: 13 Jan 93 00:09:28 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1iv53uINNlb6@au-ns.american.edu> jkight@american.edu writes:
>Mark Thomsen (thomsen@spf.trw.com) wrote:
>: Heard that one of the NeXT software product developers is about to hit the  
>: financial skids --- anyone know who?
>
>Well, I heard a rumour that some senior appsoft employees are actively
>looking for new work and that appsoft headquarters has moved into the ceo's
>garage.  Should you believe this or not? Well, NeXTconnection seems to think
>that products are still going to be shipping, but I would check with other
>next developers in the bay area to see how many former appsoft employees they
>have been interviewing. Also the next issue of Lt.Sullivan may prove
>enlightening.
>
>Jeff
>
>*note - this *is* a rumour, but I consider my source reliable, or I wouldn't
>post it.
>-- 
>Jeff Kight                                           jkight@american.edu
>The American University Computing Center                  (202) 885-2281
>Washington DC  20016-8019 USA                         Fax (202) 885-2224


As regards Appsoft, I doubt they're going under, but
judging from Draw 1.02 they never really got going. The 
app is awful and shouldn't have shipped. It's useless 
in its present bug-ridden form.

L.A. Brooks
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.next.sysadmin
From: kurrer@lisboa.ks.uiuc.edu (Christian Kurrer)
Subject: noise reduction: spinning down the hard disk
Reply-To: kurrer@lisboa.ks.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:00:30 GMT

Does anybody know whether it is possible to shut down a hard disk on a  
Next in a manner similar to the `power saving' mode on portables/notebook  
computers?

While I am not too much worried about the power consumed by the spinning  
hard disk, I am rather annoyed by the noise it produces. I had the  
opportunity to work with a notebook computer over the christmas break;  
everytime I did not access the hard disk for more than 3 minutes, the hard  
disk stopped spinning; while this might have caused some delay (less than  
a second) the next time I accessed the hard disk, it allowed me to work  
long stretches of time without being disturbed by unnecessary noise.

Is there some technical reason why something like that would not work  
under Unix? Does shutting down the hard disk require some hardware  
features which desktop machines might not have? Am I the only one being  
annoyed by noisy desktop machines? Why hasn't the industry acted, and why  
is this spinning down of hard disks not yet a standart feature of desktop  
machines?

Christian Kurrer
kurrer@lisboa.ks.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: andy@research.canon.oz.au (Andy Newman)
Subject: Re: End of NeXT(It's only the beginning...)
Organization: Canon Information Systems Research Australia
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 13:21:25 GMT

edwardj@microsoft.com (Edward Jung) writes:

	About the most sensible thing anyone has about
	Windows NT...

>
>I expect these OS's are all about the same overall from
>a technical standpoint. NT is not a super-standout, but
>it is a reasonable foundation upon which subsequent technology
>can be built. It is that work which is more interesting --
>again, base OS services are not that interesting any more.
>

Change the definition of "base OS services" and they can get
interesting again.

-- 
Andy Newman (andy@research.canon.oz.au)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: When Will NeXTSTep Become Drag and Drop
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 16:25:19 GMT

In article <1is562INNm5r@transfer.stratus.com>
jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:

>I've been using NeXTStep 3.0 for a couple of months now
>(and have been using NeXT since release 1.0).  I have one
>question/peeve: when will the user interface become true
>drag and drop?  

>Yes, I can drag documents into the Windows of certain apps. But 
>I can't:

>--  Drag a document into an application to open it under that
>    application

This one you can do; hold down the command key and do it.

>[...]

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: nathan@laplace.csb.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette)
Subject: Re: Gosip in 1993 (Appsoft)
Reply-To: nathan@laplace.csb.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette)
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 02:51:40 GMT

In article <1iv92hINNd52@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> isbell@cats.ucsc.edu (Art  
Isbell) writes:

> So rather than spread rumors, lets relay valid info.
> Has anyone experienced a change in Appsoft's operation
> that affects customers directly?

Unfortunately, no.  Draw is still at version 1.02 and
therefore still a frustrating challenge to use.  Too bad,
it has potential to be a neat app.  Randy Adam's has stated
that the continuing existence of major bugs are the
result of problems with another company that wrote the
app; then again, Appsoft has our money, so I hold them
responsible for this mess.

--
Nathan Janette
PPP link from hilbert.csb.yale.edu

Please reply to: nathan@laplace.csb.yale.edu (NeXT)

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: andrew@cubetech.com
Subject: Re: NeXT Drops NeXTworld (was Re: Richard Page resigns ...)
Organization: Cube Technologies, Inc.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 03:06:40 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.220639.20851@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>Wrt to NEXTworld magazine, if NeXT cuts the umbilical cord,
>what will the fate of the Expo, even this upcoming one, be,
>I wonder?  I was planning to go, but only if NeXT itself is
>going to be there in a big way.
>
>So all you gleaners of information out there, get right down
>to gleaning, and let us know what you can uncover.

I get the feeling that NeXTworld was getting a bit tired of the
editorial control that NeXT had and felt that it was doing well enough
as far as subscription and ad sales went to sever it's tie with NeXT.
I greatly prefer that NeXTworld be independant and not have any
obligations to NeXT Computer Inc...

I am not worried about Expo...


andrew
-- 
andrew@cubetech.com      | "We cannot dwell in the time that is to come,
Andrew Loewenstern       |  lest we lose our now for a phantom of our
Cube Technologies, Inc.  |  own design." - Erendis
0000000701B61D1ADF0DFC9C16185CEA055200000007EB4A9FEB1922065D471A89E905B5
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: nathan@laplace.csb.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette)
Subject: Re: NeXT should improve, not eliminate, its hardware line
Reply-To: nathan@laplace.csb.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette)
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 05:07:31 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.192507.2709@ccsi.com> jcorallo@ccsi.com (P. John  
Corallo) writes:

> Apple has announced a new 68040 line coming out in June
> with a base model   68040 25mhz, 8mb RAM, DSP, CD-ROM, 400mb
> Hard Drive, and 16" Sony .16 dpi   Color Monitor starting at
> $2,500.  The prices for other configurations   range from
> $2,500 to $5,500.  See InfoWorld January 11, 1993. 

Talk about advance announcements of vapor.  I expect we'll
be seeing some *shipping* products from NeXT by then, not
announcements.

Heck, they might as well have said the new hardware will
run NeXTstep for all I believe it ;-)  

--
Nathan Janette
PPP link from hilbert.csb.yale.edu

Please reply to: nathan@laplace.csb.yale.edu (NeXT)

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: NeXT Drops NeXTworld (was Re: Richard Page resigns ...)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 22:06:39 GMT

In article <93010.134049ASODL@ASUACAD.BITNET>
<ASODL@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:

[Ahem.  That article didn't need to be cross-posted to
 all three groups like that.  I've set it back to this one.]

>I will try and follow with the exact article listing and
>reference information later this week on this matter.

Please do.

>[stuff about the Page resignation]

>Also, and somewhat of a surprise, this article announced
>that NeXT was DROPPING support of NeXTWorld if I recall
>correctly.  Like a hot rock is how it sounded to me.

Further detail on this rumor would be of interest.  The
magazine has been much on my mind, especially since this
last issue.  It seems to me more and more things are going
wrong with it, and the idea that NeXT might sever its ties
there has been running around in the back of my head for a
while.

I continue to hold very high hopes for NeXT, but my hopes
are increasingly nagged by worries, too.

Wrt to NEXTworld magazine, if NeXT cuts the umbilical cord,
what will the fate of the Expo, even this upcoming one, be,
I wonder?  I was planning to go, but only if NeXT itself is
going to be there in a big way.

So all you gleaners of information out there, get right down
to gleaning, and let us know what you can uncover.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]