HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: early man.
Date: 20 Nov 92 19:44:33 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

In article <98344@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>In article <2857@israel.nysernet.org>, warren@nysernet (Warren Burstein) writes:
>>According to both groups, the skeletons [of early hominids] certainly
>>would not be those of Jews.  I don't know if this would make any
>>difference.
>
>It would to a cohen!
>
>Are cohanim allowed to engage in field archaelogy?
>-- 
>-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)

What would be the rule if the bones of Noach or Shem were found? 

Gerry Palo
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: talk.shanda.goyim (was Re: Welcome to s.c.j.)
Organization: Smiley Abolition Front
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:07:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.150744.6439@dorsai.com> jimkalb@dorsai.com (Jim Kalb) writes:
>warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) writes:
>
>: I'm going to change the line in my ~news/newsgroups line for scj to
>: 
>: soc.culture.jewish	a shanda far die goyim
>
>This looks like it means something like "behaving disgracefully in front of
>non-Jews".  Is that right?  Is this a notion with much history or present
>power among Jews?  (I should mention if it's not obvious that I am one of the
>goyim -- if anyone feels I'm asking about family stuff I'll drop it.)

Yes to both. In Jewish tradition, one of the worst sins is
"chillul haShem" -- "desecrating the Divine Name". If a Jew
behaves badly in public, it reflects badly on the Torah, and
therefore on the God who gave the Torah. For this reason, the
Talmud goes to great lengths to instruct Jews to avoid even the
appearance of impropriety. In fact, there are many actions which
are permitted by the letter of Biblical law, but which the rabbis
forbade because of "morit ayin", the appearance of impropriety;
that is, anyone seeing a Jew do that thing would tend to believe
that he was acting imorally, even if he weren't, in fact, doing
so.

Conversely, whenever a Jew behaves particularly well in public,
this is a "kiddush haShem", a sanctification of the Divine Name.

FYI: In case you're wondering, the word "goy" (pl. "goyim") is
not at all derogatory; it is just the Talmudic word for non-Jew.
It is in marked contrast to words like "shaygetz" (fem.
"shiksa"), which is a very offensive term, and not used by
well-mannered, knowledgable Jews.
-- 
Andrew Michael Solovay    

"We know that Solovay is a misogynist and an idiot..."
                --Melinda Shore
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: nothing to do with Conversion Question
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 00:16:50 GMT

The statement in my signature is not my motto.  Gideon often ends
postings with "Shalom" which certainly is not his.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org 			    Jerusalem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: CPLS13@email.mot.com (Steven_Cohn)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: Motorola_CoveragePLUS
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:56:17 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish

In article <FAIGIN.92Nov18142024@soldan.aero.org>, faigin@aero.org (Daniel
P. Faigin) wrote:
> 

Stuff deleted

> 
> God is unfathomable. We weren't around 4000 years ago when Judaism started to
> know who is authentic. I don't know if Orthodox is right, or Reform is right,
> or if both are wrong (and the Buddists are right :-). All I can do is live the
                                                       
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> best life I can, and set the best example I know how to. In doing that, I can
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> hope God is satisfied which my little part of his creation.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I second this statement, and sincerely hope that all who participate in
this discussion, whatever your particular beliefs, etc practice this at
least, if nothing else, for it is a wonderful philosphy that has brought me
much inner peace and happiness.


Steven Cohn
Motorola CoveragePLUS Engineering
CPLS13@EMAIL.MOT.COM
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: holmes@garnet.idbsu.edu (Randall Holmes)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: Boise State University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:58:34 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.173834.16841@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld) writes:
>In article <1992Nov18.220941.10746@guinness.idbsu.edu>, holmes@garnet.idbsu.edu (Randall Holmes) writes:
>|> Orthodoxy cannot define itself as one of many legitimate
>|> interpretations of what God requires of us; this denies its
>|> fundamental principles.
>
>This is not really correct.  In fact, within halacha, there are many areas in
>which several "legitimate interpretations" exist.  There are differing views
>on whether to wear tfillin on Chol Ha'moed, whether to eat rice and legumes
>on Pesach, when to begin wearing a tallis, whether one may eat kosher, but
>non-glatt kosher, meat, whether to use the Sukkah on Shmini Atzeres (outside
>Israel). and many more.  In each case, there are Orthodox views on both sides 
>of the issue, and neither side views the other as "illegitimate".
>
>Where O parts company with C and R is in how to define a "legitimate 
>interpretation".  O Jews believe that the halacha provides a framework for
>what options are and are not acceptable.  And it believes that C and R step 
>outside that framework.  C and R can choose to believe otherwise, of course, 
>but it is really rather unfair to condemn O for not agreeing.
>-- 
>Elie Rosenfeld      | "I am what I am, Leila -- and if there are self-made
>Bellcore            |  purgatories, then we all must live in them.
>Piscataway, N.J.    |  Mine is no worse than someone else's."
>(908) 699-8800      |                     - Spock, "This Side of Paradise"

I agree; I was aware of this as I wrote.  But it is true (as you
observe) relative to C and R.  My conclusions follow.


-- 
The opinions expressed		|     --Sincerely,
above are not the "official"	|     M. Randall Holmes
opinions of any person		|     Math. Dept., Boise State Univ.
or institution.			|     holmes@opal.idbsu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Thursday, 19 Nov 1992 06:30:07 EST
From: Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: "Feminazis" and the "abortion holocaust"
 <92323.1537062893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>


For a detailed account of the parallels between the Nazi holocaust
and the abortion holocaust see the essay "Die Buben sind unser Ungl-
ueck!  The Holocaust and Abortion" in _Rachel Weeping and other
essays on abortion_ by James Tunstead Burtchaell.  (Andrews and
McMeel, 1982)  The book also contains an essay "Eliza and Lizzie
Scott, and Infants Roe and Doe: How They Fared.  Slavery and Abortion
in America."
-------
Marty Helgesen
Bitnet: mnhcc@cunyvm   Internet: mnhcc@cunyvm.cuny.edu

"Just say know to Gnosticism"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Mathematical Proof of G-d?
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 04:24:51 GMT

friedenb@case-l5.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg) writes:

#I had shabbos lunch at a professors house recently and he told me the
#following.  I do not know if it is his original philosophy, 

It is not.

#It can be proven that :    i(Pi)                          
#			  e	= -1      (Where Pi is 3.1415927....)

Actually, the nice way to write this is

               (PI)i
              e      + 1 = 0

That way, you get the *five* most important constants in mathematics,
and the basic operations (equality, addition, multiplication, power)
and nothing but them, all related in one equation.

#This equation proves (?) that G-d must exist.  Who could create a
#universe where all of the basic elements of mathematics could combine
#to make such a simple equation?  

Euler would have! But then, who created Euler, eh? :-)

By the way, this reminds me of the story about the infinite series
1-1+1-1+1-1+1.... if you write it like (1-1)+(1-1)+(1-1)... it
"sums" to 0; if you write it like 1-(1-1)-(1-1)-(1-1)... it "sums"
to 1. So, it seems you proved 0=1 (of course this is meanigless,
as the series diverges e.g. it doesn't have a sum). But in medieval
times some people used this to "prove" creation from nothingness.

Perhaps the most famous story is about the skeptic and the
mathematician (were they Diderot and Euler??). They had
a public debate in which the mathematician had to prove to the
skeptic God exists. He said to him something like "5*x+7, hence
God exists!". The skeptic, who had no idea what the other guy
was talking about, admitted defeat...

To conclude, once in a formal dinner the great British mathematician
Hardy told someone that if he assumes any false mathematical
statement, then any absurd assumption can be proved. His partner
to the conversation said "How can that be? Suppose I assume 7=4. Now
prove that I am the Pope". Without hesistating, Hardy said: "ok, 4=7.
Subtract 1 from each side to get 3=6. Divide each side by 3 to get
1=2. Look at the set consisting of you and the Pope. It has 2
elements. But 2=1, so it has one element, hence you are the Pope!".


-Danny Keren.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Alia only with Brith-Mila?
From: zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Date: 20 Nov 92 12:28:51 EST
Organization: The Phallogocentric Cabal

In article <98342@netnews.upenn.edu> 
weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:

>In article <2863@israel.nysernet.org>, 
>warren@nysernet (Warren Burstein) writes:

WB:
>>Are we required to ask a Jew if he is circumcized?  Maybe we're
>>supposed to assume that he is unless we have evidence to the contrary?

MPW:
>Probably.  Then again, speaking Russian is evidence to the contrary.

Now I know what they did with my foreskin, -- they sent it to the
Wistar Institute as brain food for Wiener.  Most appropriate, since
the dumbest Russian Jew I know appears to have more intelligence in
his small head, than Matthew -- in all of his body.

>-- 
>-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)

cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
"Le cul des femmes est monotone comme l'esprit des hommes."






Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Alia only with Brith-Mila?
Date: 19 Nov 92 13:39:09 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)

In article <2863@israel.nysernet.org>, warren@nysernet (Warren Burstein) writes:
>Are we required to ask a Jew if he is circumcized?  Maybe we're
>supposed to assume that he is unless we have evidence to the contrary?

Probably.  Then again, speaking Russian is evidence to the contrary.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Re: Yom Kippur 5754 (in 1993)
Organization: Smiley Abolition Front
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 03:33:19 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.224335.15921@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>In article <1992Nov20.191857.6736@cbfsb.cb.att.com> jweber@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (jodi.weber) writes:
>>2)  What are the rules regarding fasting in this case?

>We fast on Yom Kippur whenever it is, even Shabbat.
>
>(If you had asked about sexual activities, quite appropriate for an
> ordinary Shabbat, we refrain from them on Yom Kippur too.)

On the other hand, the calendar is set up to prevent Yom Kippur
from ever falling on a Friday or Sunday. Chazal felt that it
would be too great a hardship to have two days in a row with
Shabbat-level restrictions.
-- 
Andrew Michael Solovay    

"When angry, count four. When very angry, swear."
                --Mark Twain
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:08:26 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <FAIGIN.92Nov23074739@soldan.aero.org> faigin@aero.org
(Daniel P. Faigin) writes:

>On Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:11:09 GMT, saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) said:

>> What you fail to realize (accept?) is that there are (and throughout
>> history have been) Jews for howm our religion is critical and that for
>> these people it _is_ wrong to treat a non-Jew as a Jew (as far as
>> religious obligation, ritual, etc is concerned).

>I can appreciate that. In that case, at least be reasonable to the person, let
>them know patiently why in their particular case you can't treat them right,
>and offer to work with them to rectify the situation.

For the majority of the last 2000 years, the procedure to convert to
Judaism has evolved in a particular line and (reletively) suddenly Reform
comes along and changes the procedure, demanding it be accepted.  Isn't it
encumbant on Reform Judasim to make sure this is understood?
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: danl@col.hp.com (Daniel Lockhart)
Subject: Re: Movie "Exodus"
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:57:40 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) writes:
> In <1992Nov11.164813.17666@col.hp.com> danl@col.hp.com (Daniel Lockhart) writes:
> 
> While it is most certainly not the case that all participants in the
> pre-state undergrounds or the present-day army are religious, it is
> not a reasonable assumption to make that people who don't observe the
> commandments don't keep their word.  However, one who breaks an oath
> under duress (and an enemy soldier pointing a gun at one's head is
> about as strong as duress comes), is not, as I understand it, guilty
> of the crime of oathbreaking.


The "American way of thinking" would in the past condem a man for breaking
his word while under duress.  It wasn't until after the Vietnam Conflict tha
there was a board set up to review it idea that a man could not break his
word while under duress.  There was much arguement about whether by breaking
his word caused other solders to die or be harmed.  Now days I don't see
much value being placed upon one's word, whether in be a broken marriage
vow or one to defend one's country.

daniel

Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:20745 soc.culture.turkish:11941 talk.politics.mideast:22417 talk.politics.soviet:9102 soc.culture.greek:10829 soc.culture.europe:9757 soc.culture.soviet:10174 soc.rights.human:4289 soc.culture.yugoslavia:9676
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.soviet,soc.rights.human,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Altogether twelve Armenian battalions served the Nazi army.
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 13:38:12 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1992Nov22.012954.9135@leland.Stanford.EDU> arto@leland.Stanford.EDU (Artavazd Khachikian) writes:

>	... that he is busy slaughtering and getting away with and revisioning
>in soc.culture.soviet and other groups.

If that is the only argument you have with my articles, then why even 
bother? Are you related to "arromdian the self-admitted revisionist"?
In fall 1942, the Armenian infantry battalions 808 and 809 were formed,
to be followed by battalions 810, 812 and 813 in spring 1943. In the 
second half of 1943 infantry battalions 814, 815 and 816 were created.
These battalions together with other indigenous Caucasian units were
attached to the infantry division 162. Also attached to ID 162 were
the field battalions II/9, I/125 and I/198 which were formed between
May 1942 and May 1943. Altogether twelve Armenian battalions served the
Nazi army, if battalion II/73, which was not employed at any time, is to be
included.[1] Most battalions were commanded by Nazi Armenian officers.
Armenians wore German uniforms with an armband in the Dashnag colours 
red-blue-orange and the inscription 'Armenien.'

[1] Joachim Hoffmann, 'Dies Ostlegionen 1941-1943, Turkotataren, 
    Kaukasier und Wolgafinned im deutschen Heer,' (Verlag Rombach
    Freiburg 1976), p. 172.

The Armenian SS unit was formed following a directive of Himmler in 
the beginning of December 1944.[1] The Armenian Liaison Staff actively 
recruited volunteers[2] and by February 1945 a cavalry formation of one 
thousand Armenians was integrated into the larger Caucasian Waffen-SS 
unit. The Armenian SS formation was employed last in Klagenfurt.[3] In 
addition to this exclusively Armenian unit, Nazi Armenians also served 
in the thirty eight other SS divisions, one of them even in the elite 
'Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler.'[4]

[1] Meyer, Berkian, ibid., pp. 136-137.
[2] United States National Archives, T-175, Roll 167, 
    pp 2700157/2700158, SS-Headquarters, Amtsgruppe D - Oststelle,
    see 'Documents 3 and 4.'
[3] Georg Tessin, 'Verbaende und Truppen der deutschen Wehrmacht und
    Waffen-SS im zweiten Weltkrieg 1939-1945,' (Frankfurt am Main
    1965-1980), Volume 14, Armenian Legion/Waffen SS.
[4] Meyer, Berkian, ibid., p. 119.

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Israel and the diaspora
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 15:53:05 GMT

In article <92322.1712442893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:

>Especially the policy of trying to
>eliminate the opportunity for Russian Jews to go anywhere but Israel

This is unrealistic.  In a world of increasing economic despair and 
ethnic tensions, there are hardly any countries that are willing 
and able to accept a million or so penniless refugees.  Left to 
their own devices, some Russian Jews might WANT to go elsewhere, 
but who else is going to accept them?  Please don't blame Israel for  
being willing to accept large numbers of refugees when others won't.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: Vatican Recognition of Israel - Who Needs
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 00:52:00 GMT

Was it Stalin who asked how many troops the pope had?

The Vatican's refusal up until now to establish diplomatic relations
with Israel is a sign of its own hypocracy and moral bankruptcy, as
well as the theological difficulty in coming to grips with the
reestablishment of the Jewish state.

Israel should make no concessions in order to gain Vatican
recognition;  on the contrary, it is the Vatican which should be
offering apologies and concessions to Israel.
-- 
Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Jonathan Pollard...
Date: 21 Nov 1992 01:55:25 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


   Jonathan Pollard is a man who is condemned to prison, for the
rest of his life.  He was condemned to this fate for passing off
intelligence information to Israel.  It has been noted that this
data involved the increased efforts by Iraq to increase chemical
and biological warfare capabilities.  Much of the buildup in the
areas of Israeli civil defense was due to information which came
from Jonathan Pollard.  Our government's reaction to Pollard was
not only swift, but stunningly cruel.  And the sentence that was
handed down for his espionage was beyond previous sentencing for
similar crimes.  Israel is an ally of the United States.  It has
always been an ally.  In spite of the hysterical reaction on the
part of Mr. Casper Weinberger, Pollard NEVER committed the crime
of treason.  This dispicable crime is the act of selling secrets
to the enemy.  It is a crime that is considered so grave that an
individual can be put to death for it.  It is the crime that was
committed for years by the Walker family.  The Walker family was
engaged in the selling of defense secrets to the USSR for eleven
years.  The nature of what they sold to the Russians was of such
a comprimising nature that defense experts stated we wouldn't be
able to undo the damage for years.
   Jonathan Pollard provided information which the United States
had promised to provide Israel anyway.  What he gave to our ally
in the mideast was information necessary for Israel to provide a
measure of security for itself.  In no way did Pollard engage in
any sort of activity against our country.  And yet he received a
sentence equal to that of those who have committed treason.
   Jonathan Pollard is a criminal.  He engaged in espionage, and
was convicted of this crime.  And though, as a Jew, I am glad he
did it, he must be recognized as a criminal.  As it is noted, if
you can't do the time, don't do the crime.  But the time must be
somewhat proportional to the crime.  The wrath of Weinberger was
enough to bring the weight of the federal geovernment down on an
individual who would never knowingly harm his country.  His fate
was the same as that of a genuine traitor's.
   I am at a loss to come up with what can be done at this point
in time.  But I do know that Jonathan Pollard must never be left
to rot away in prison, as if he was an American back-stabber, as
if he was a traitor like the Walker family.  We must continue to
seek a solution to this miscarraige of justice.  
Organization: Freshman, CIT general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.conspiracy
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 15:43:00 -0500 
From: "David A. Byler" <db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Jews in Banks
	<1992Nov16.160701.16000@midway.uchicago.edu>

Ted Frank writes:

>Eight of the ten largest international banks in the world are Japanese.
>There are no Jews on any of their boards.  Jews are underrepresented
>on the boards of the major banks based in New York City, which, to my
>knowledge, have never had a Jewish CEO.

Ever heard of the Rothschilds?  How about the Warburgs?


Andy Byler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Re: American Antisemitism
Organization: Summit NJ
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:28:37 GMT

ROBERT WERMAN writes:

>From the Associated Press, 11-17-92
>
>One in five adult Americans hold strong prejudicial attitudes against Jews,
>and anti-Semitism is most prevalent among blacks and the elderly according
>to a survey released Monday.
>
> ......
>
>Foxman told reporters he was especially disturbed that 31 percent of
>Americans in the survey believe Jews have "too much power," and that 35
>percent think Jews are more loyal to Israel than to the United States.
>
> .....
>
>Overall, 20 percent of American in the survey fell into the "most
>anti-Semitic" category.  Thirty-seven percent of blacks were in the
>category, compared with 17 percent of whites.

Come on Bob, why are you wasting bandwidth this posting?  Aren't things
like the Jewishness of Conservative converts or which heckshers are
more kosher than others the really important issues that affect us?
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish