HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lund@ssd.kodak.com (Nate Lund)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Another request for REC.BOATS.HOBIE
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:38:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: pixel.1992Aug20.223829.23809
Organization: Eastman Kodak

In article <1992Aug19.193840.597@icd.teradyne.com> burzycki@zax.eda.teradyne.com (Mike Burzycki) writes:
>About a week or so ago, I asked for people's opinions on starting a new
>newsgroup for Hobie cat sailors. [...]
>[...]
>There just seems to be so much talk in rec.boats about the QE II grounding,
>flares, Snowgoose, etc. that I have to weed through to get to information 
 ^^^^^^
>[...]

Are you aware that on waters that the Coast Guard patrols, any craft over
sixteen feet is required to carry flares?

(Don't ask how I found out that my Hobie 18 was required to carry flares
 on Lake Ontario, really, don't ask...  :-{)

I don't feel there is enough traffic to warrant a separate group, and
as others have pointed out, if there was to be a split I would think that
rec.boats.motor and rec.boats.sail would be the first logical split.
(And I'd rather not see that, either, as the cross dialog seems to allow
both groups an opportunity to voice concerns, allowing for a better
sharing of the waterways...)

How about rec.boats.pond, rec.boats.russian-roulette?  :-}

Nate
nlund@kodak.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: bartley@spss.com (Dennis Bartley)
Subject: Re: protest question (rule 32
Organization: SPSS Inc.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 14:54:21 GMT

>
>Here's another one that may be of interest:
>
>Boat SW is above the starting line at a start where the one minute rule is
>not in effect.  On starboard, she reaches down the line on the upwind
>side about 1 minute before the start.  Then, she luffs and begins sailing
>backwards toward all of the boats (also on starboard) parked on the line.
>Before the starting signale she is on the proper side of the line, but
>she forced several boats to move in order to give her room.
>
>Is boat SW at fault?
>
>Will


The rules don't say anything about moving backwards. Same rules
apply... a windward boat has to keep clear, and a yacht clear astern
must keep clear even of a boat backing into them!

If SW was windward of the boats that had to alter course, then SW
foulded them. If SW was to leeward, then they were obliged to give her
room. 

In Jobson and Whiddens book on tactics, Jobson specifically mentions
this... sail backwards towards someone (maintaining a constant course
I suppose). If his bow hits your stern, he violated 37.2. If his
leeward touches your windward, he's also violated 37.1. Jobsons
analysis, not mine!
From: cboes@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Christopher Boes)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Hobie Cat's
Date: 21 Aug 92 16:36:39 GMT
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax Va.

In article <1684A9352.STU@mwvm.mitre.org>, STU@mwvm.mitre.org writes:
> I've single handed my Hobie 16 for years - frequently backing her into slips,
> heaving to for lunch and all sorts of things that I used to think I could only
> do in a "real" boat.
>  
I prefer single handing. The rush I get when I go through an inlet out
to the ocean with breakers all arround while traped out is awsome. (and
a bit scary)

> Tacking the 16 isn't hard at all, just push the tiller, hold the jib until
> it begins to back, and lee-ho, off she goes on the other tack.  After she
> tacks, move to the new windward side, release and tighten the main, tighten
> the jib - and with practice, you lose little, if any, speed.
>  
It can be a real pain in the rear if you have the wind on the nose and a
current on the nose and you are trying to manuver in a narrow channel. 

> The jib is a non-issue - gives you extra fast tacking, keeps the boat rigid
> and adds speed.
>  
> I don't see how you can sail without a jib on a 16.  I tighten the jib drum-
> tight to pull the mast to the position I like to sail her at.
>  
> For practice, I used to sail into Annapolis harbor without the rudders down -
> using only the sheet angle, position on the boat and luck (but not much luck).
> People on shore stared, shouted advice and pointed - until they eventually
> figured that if you could tack without a rudder, whatever foolishness you
> are doing must be on purpose.
>  
>  
> Besides, you can get a servicable 16' Hobie for under $800 - buy one, you'll
> like it - and if not, you haven't lost much.   /Stu

A friend of mine got one in Galesville for $500.


-Chris
"Blue Flash 86762"
cboes@gmuvax2.gmu.edu

>>>>>>>>>>>> Go Fly a Hull................. Hobie Style <<<<<<<<<<<<
From: billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Courington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: How windy?
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:51:23 GMT
Reply-To: billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM
Distribution: world
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: sextant.eng.sun.com

In article 20963@das.harvard.edu, bloxham@geophysics.harvard.edu (Jeremy Bloxham) writes:

[observing that wind on drizzly day seemed stronger than instruments indicated]

>
>What else could explain it? Perhaps windspeed instruments under read in
>heavy drizzle, but I would have thought the effect of the cups
>impacting water droplets would be negligible. Any ideas?
>
Perhaps heavy (wet) wind is more "forceful" than light (dry) wind.

BILL COURINGTON
From: "al sorhaindo" <al.sorhaindo@execnet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: qe ii grounding
Date: 18 Aug 92 01:21:42 EST
Reply-To: "al sorhaindo" <al.sorhaindo@execnet.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Executive Networks Information

EC>One bit I don't understand: According to the Sunday New York Times, after
EC>she ran aground she was refloated and moved a few miles, and so no one knows
EC>the EXACT LOCATION! Now, doesn't a ship like this carry GPS? And if so, why
EC>didn't they take a reading before floating off? It just don't make sense.

Yes, she has GPS, and she must also carry buoys to mark positions in
cases like this. However, it seems that she did not come to a grinding
halt so they may have moved a bit before anyone got a fix or was able
to drop a buoy. All in all it does seem very strange, but nothing seems to
work in life as it does in textbooks. I will be following the enquiry.

                                               Al
---
  DeLuxe 1.21 #11688  al.sorhaindo@execnet.com
--
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
From: bentson@CS.ColoState.EDU (Randolph Bentson)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Global Positioning Sytems.
Date: 22 Aug 92 23:38:38 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Aug19.095808.8585@zoo.bt.co.uk> jcs@zoo.bt.co.uk (John C Sager) writes:
>... At this level you have to begin
>to think about whether the long/lat given by GPS (In the WGS84 reference
>frame) is the same as that marked on your chart, which probably derives
>from some older reference frame. Some receivers have the capacity to
>enter an adjustment for this but you need to know what it is first.

A recent Notice to Airman said "Beginning October 15, 1992, the horizontal
referencing system used in all charts and chart products published by the
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) / National Ocean
Service (NOS) will change from the North American Datum of 1927 (NAD27)
to the North American Datum of 1983 (NAD83). ... You can expect
cordinates to change by zero to 16 seconds."  It further advises that
the greatest shifts occur in Alaska and Hawaii, but there's no hint
as to how much the shift is for the lower 48 states.

I sampled my charts and found those from 1989 onward use NAD83 (WGS84).
None cover the same area, so I can't derive any example numbers.

-- 
    Randolph Bentson                 Colorado State University
    bentson@grieg.CS.ColoState.Edu   Computer Science Department
    303/491-5792                     Ft. Collins, CO 80523
From: jcs@zoo.bt.co.uk (John C Sager)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Global Positioning Sytems.
Date: 19 Aug 92 09:58:08 GMT
Organization: British Telecommunications plc

In <1992Aug17.123151.4532@comp.lancs.ac.uk>,
ega015@comp.lancs.ac.uk (Robert Edge) writes:

	Due to the demise of a DECCA navigating system,some of my collegues
	are interested in moving up to a G.P.S unit as the DECCA was upset
	by weather conditions.
	What i would like is some prices for both second hand and brand new
	units as well as some general info on them.


Thre are unlikely to be S/H units around yet in the UK. Handhelds cost in the 
region of #600-#1000, depending on make at the moment, though the price seems
to be dropping slowly. Popular ones include:

Trimble Ensign
Garmin GPS 50
Magellan NAV 5000
Sony Pyxis

though there are others. The September issue of 'Yachting World' has a
comparative review of several. The results of that suggest that GPS can
be accurate within 100m most of the time. At this level you have to begin
to think about whether the long/lat given by GPS (In the WGS84 reference
frame) is the same as that marked on your chart, which probably derives
from some older reference frame. Some receivers have the capacity to
enter an adjustment for this but you need to know what it is first.

John C Sager					Mail:	B67 G18, BT Labs
Email:	jcs@zoo.bt.co.uk				Martlesham Heath
Tel:	+44 473 642623					IPSWICH  IP5 7RE
Fax:	+44 473 637614					England
From: peder@tamarack.cray.com (Peder Sterling)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Bayliner Boats
Date: 20 Aug 92 12:44:08 GMT
Reply-To: peder@cray.com
Distribution: na
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Originator: peder@tamarack


> > I have read that the use of chopped strand per-se is not bad and
> > that you can do either bad or good layup jobs using either hand
> > laying or chopper methods.
> > 
> > It is in fact no longer true that only low-end manufacturers,
> > such as Bayliner, use chopped strand.  It is a very common
> > technique used by a majority of fiberglass boat builders to
> > at least some extent.  There have been many technological improvements
> > in the process and its use doesn't necessarily have anything to
> > do with the strength, ride, or durability of a hull.
> > 
> Well, from the articles of read, most recently in Boating Industry,
> Baja does not even own a chopper gun.  That's why I own a Baja!
> Baja also does alll the graphics in the gel, another PLUS, no tape.

I've read something similar, but I thought it was that they didn't have a
chopper-gun at their assembly plant... No matter, Baja's are NICE boats.

My question is, if Bayliner (owned by U.S. Marine, a subdivision of Brunswick)
is considered by some as a low-end manufacturer, how do other boat makers such
as Maxum (also owned by U.S. Marine, a subdivision of Brunswick) fit into the
picture as far as the quality of their products is concerned ?  I believe that
Maxum claims to use hand-laid fiberglass, and use Perko parts throughout their
boats.  Do the Maxum's hold up better than the Bayliner's ?  Is this kind of 
like the difference between a Cheverolet and a Cadillac ?  How about other boat
makers which are owned by a common parent company (Genmar, etc) ?

--
Peder G. Sterling       peder@cray.com          uunet!peder@cray.com
====================================================================
Cray Research, Inc.     655F Lone Oak Drive     Eagan, MN 55121
Voice: (612) 683-5564   Fax: (612) 683-5889
From: alanmoore@yang.earlham.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Marine VHF Licensing
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:17:31 GMT
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana

Can anyone tell me the address/phone to write/call in the US for a VHF license? 
I am on a local volunteer fire department, and have realized that I can have my
portable radio to be used on marine frequencies as well as fire frequencies.

As I understand it, licenses for marine are for a particular boat on a
particular person.  I would want to be able to get a license that would allow
me to use this radio on whatever boat I am on (as I sail with my brother and
father at times), and am wondering if that is possible.

Also, can someone hail me from shore (like to come pick them up) with a
portable?  If so, do they have to be licensed?

Thanks,
Alan Moore
alanmoore@yang.earlham.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: lls@kings.demon.co.uk (Lady Lodge Systems)
Subject: Re: Mayday's and Channel 16 use (was Re: snow goose)
Organization: Lady Lodge Systems
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 07:27:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.163151.19206@tcom.stc.co.uk> bruce@tcom.stc.co.uk (Bruce Munro) writes:
>
>Does the US not have a PANPAN call for emergencies that are not immediately
>life threatening. My understanding is that MAYDAY should only be used
>in cases of injury or where the boat is in immediate danger.

#ifdef LITTLE_NIT_PICK
In case of injury (that is not immediately life threatening) shouldn't one
send a PANPAN MEDICO?? 
#endif

I was taught that MAYDAY, PANPAN and all the other terms were covered by
'international' agreement.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

>Talking about Mayday's and Channel 16, there was an example of poor VHF
>usage at the Cowes Week regatta which I raced at last week......
>This meant several Mayday calls were in action and that Channel 16 was in
>almost constant use by the emergency services. Despite this they were
>hampered on many occasions by thoughtless people making normal calls and
>even chatting on the channel while rescues were actually being carried out.

I thought that, in the UK, before one is allowed to use a marine VHF
radio (except in cases of emergency) you had to be licensed or be under
the direct supervision of someone who is.  Additionally, the vessel
itself must be registered and license paid before the VHF can be fitted.

Isn't it time that the authorities stopped turning a blind eye towards
the yachties and gin-palaces in the solent - perhaps a purge on
non-licensed use of marine VHF would improve the quality of usage -
after all, tracing them wouldn't be too difficult if they are licensed and
use their boat names/callsigns.

Of course this wouldn't help with the non-licensed boats but a quick
walk through the marinas looking for VHF masts and the lack of licenses
should bring a few offenders to light.  Hang them from the yard-arm and
others might think twice :-)

PS.  The one time I've been involved in a PAN PAN call (yes it was
justified!  A Diver was suffering from a cerebral embolism and needed
immediate air evacuation), the Coastguard quickly moved us off Ch16 to
leave it free for other traffic; and this was in the North Sea where
Ch16 usage is very low.
-- 
Regards,
        Russell
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Russell Brown          | MAIL : russell@kings.demon.co.uk                 |
| Lady Lodge Systems     | PHONE: 0832 272224 (Home/Work it's all the same) |
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: dwl@watson.ibm.com (David W. Levine)
Subject: Re: Mayday's and Channel 16 use (was Re: snow goose)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 01:23:15 GMT
Reply-To: dwl@watson.ibm.com 
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center

The US does have "pan" (Pronounced "Pawn") In it's official
repetoire. I've heard the coast guard and commercial traffic use it,
I've only heard a pleasure craft use it once, it was justified and it
did get the coast guard's attention, but my experience is that even
a simple hail on 16 normally gets their attention equally well. 

The sequence is:

Security 	- Informational
Pan		- Urgent but not life threatening
Mayday		- Urgent and life threatening

The US coast guard seems to use Pan for extreme severe weather
warnings and very dangerous cargo situations (Where there's an
exclusion zone) and military exercises. (I've heard them call it
out of Puerto Rico when they Military was blowing things up off in the
Atlantic.) They don't use it heavily tho. 

For those who haven't checked lately, there's also a mayday silence,
which is prounounced "Mayday Selonce" and the matching call,
"Selonce Finee" which terminates a mayday silence.  You can also use
a "Mayday relay" if you hear one and don't think the Coast Guard can.

		- David



David W. Levine      -- IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center
dwl@watson.ibm.com   -- (914) 784-7427 

My Opinions, IBM's hardware. --
From: jrm@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.r.miller)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Canada -- and porta potti regs
Keywords: Canada potty sailing
Date: 13 Aug 92 20:34:15 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

Folks
	I am heading North to Pelee Is. this weekend (Western Lake Erie) and
I have a standard porta potti on board. To empty it, one must carry it off
board and empty the lower tank. In other words, it is not a permanently
installed. Please understand, I would never empty it in the lake, I have
seen too many things floating in the lake in my childhood to even consider
that.

	So, what is the likelyhood of being boarded (South Pelee I.) and
if so, what would they do if they discovered my potty? I intend to upgrade
eventually - but not until next season.

			Thanks,

		John Miller, Catalina 22 #4909 "Tinker Toy"
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: larry@pdn.paradyne.com (Larry Swift)
Subject: Re: Flares (was: Re: snow goose)
Organization: AT&T Paradyne, Largo, Florida
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:05:23 GMT

In article <l8icv8INNgdl@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> dudley@treefort.Corp.Sun.COM (Dudley Gaman) writes:
>  2) Would one expect a flare gun to go off simply by closing it quickly?

Yes, because most of these guns are cheaply made, as
firearms go, and the firing pin can easily make
contact.

I have a related question that I've wondered about for
years.  Given that Skyblazers are cheaper and are
advertised as reaching 500 ft, and the guns only 200',
why buy the guns?  The only reason I've heard is that
since they are legal (always?) to have aboard, they
could be used for protection as well.

Larry Swift                     larry@pdn.paradyne.com
AT&T Paradyne, LG-132           Phone: (813) 530-8605
8545 - 126th Avenue, North      Gulfstar 37, aft cockpit
Largo, FL, 34649-2826           She's old and she's creaky, but she holds!

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Subject: Re: protest question (rule 32
Organization: Public Health Research Institute (New York)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:39:47 GMT

will@ogre.cica.indiana.edu (William Sadler) writes:
> Boat SW is above the starting line [...] Then, she luffs and begins sailing
> backwards toward all of the boats (also on starboard) parked on the line.
> Before the starting signale she is on the proper side of the line, but
> she forced several boats to move in order to give her room.
>
>Is boat SW at fault?

Unless I've missed something, SW is a windward boat, and thus is at fault
for forcing several leeward boats to give her room.  This seems so straight
forward, I suspect its a trick question, however.
-- 
roy@wombat.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Public Health Research Institute
455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016, USA
"This never happened to Bart Simpson."
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man...)
Subject: IMS, overheard...
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 19:30:00 GMT

Recently heard about some of the latest IMS boats:

concordia 46 - PIG
tripp 47 - Can't get out of it's own way
wylie 46 - very good
farr 44 - unbelievable


Comments?

Tom O'Toole - ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu - JHUVMS system programmer 
Homewood Computing Facilities, Johns Hopkins University, Balto. Md. 21218 
> * OLX 2.1 * ease!Trim!eeeaaaassse!trimtrimTRIMeeeeeeeaaaaaasse!trimea
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Subject: Re: marine heads - advice/recommendations wanted
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 10:12:51 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.182404.17592@das.harvard.edu> bloxham@geophysics.harvard.edu writes:
:This discussion reminds me all too well of a recent experience.  During
:the Corinthian 200 in early July (a nominally 200 mile race from
:Marblehead to Maine and back) the worst happened - yes, our head got
:blocked. (I think someone tried flushing it while the inlet was above
:water  on port tack.) So it fell to me to disassemble it to free
:the blockage. Ugh.  Not a very pleasant way to spend an hour.

Worthwhile observation on this somewhat unattractive topic: you can improve
your working environment considerably by wearing a good vapor mask---the kind
with cartridges, not the little paper things from the Hardware store.

With these and a pair of heavy-duty rubber glvoes, the job's still no fun, but
it's not much worse than changing the engine oil. 

-John

From: ben@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Benjamin Ellsworth)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 00:16:04 GMT
Subject: Re: Flares (was: Re: snow goose)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA
Newsgroups: rec.boats


>	What does one do with old, outdated, flares?  Is there a safe way
> to dispose of them?

One waits until the 4th of July and considers them expensive fireworks
:-).  Not the safest, but the most common answer in my experience.

---

Ben
From: rrusk@ssd.csd.harris.com (Bob Rusk)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Bayliner Boats
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:27:36 GMT
	<X1gDPB3w165w@bluemoon.rn.com>
Reply-To: rrusk@ssd.csd.harris.com
Organization: Harris Computer Systems Division

On 12 Aug 92 02:34:56 GMT, daves@bluemoon.rn.com (David E. Scott) wrote:

[ Discussion of St. Lawrence Seaway seas and Bayliner layup deleted. ]

>The reason I'm interested is that I have a 1964 StarCraft glass boat with 
>75 hp Evenrude that has a lot of hours/miles left in it.  From the 
>Bayliner discussion, it would appear that the '64 StarCraft was better 
>built than the current versions of the Bayliner.  Is that right?

>If so, maybe the '64 is worth more than I thought <G>.  (And the dealer 
>that sold us the '64 also sells Bayliners, and I'll bet if I traded up, 
>I might be "took" perhaps.


The mid-60's fiberglass Starcrafts were fairly heavily laid-up.  I've seen
the stringers and floors rot, but I've never known of any problems from
inadequate layup in fiberglass Starcrafts from those years.  If you don't
feel the hull flexing, you're in good shape.

Of course, that heavy construction made for a heavy boat, which was
why I always went for aluminum Starcrafts over the plastic ones (I owned
two, and friends had three others).

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Bob Rusk			    | An egoless acceptance of stuckness is a
 rrusk@ssd.csd.harris.com	    | key to an understanding of all Quality.
 My thoughts, probably not Harris'. |			   - Robert M. Pirsig
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu (T. Scott Thompson)
Subject: Re: snow goose
Reply-To: thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:27:53 GMT

fishman@tracker.rtp.dg.com (Mike Fishman) writes:

>You are 2 miles offshore, no radio and you are out of gas.
>WHAT EXACTLY WOULD YOU DO, if not fire off a flare (or two).. 
> 
>Or, alternatively.. exactly what is the proceedure for calling for help
>(VHS or CB) when you are on the bay, w/o Loran, and out of gas. I could 
>believe that a mayday is a little extreme, but I don't know any alternative.

Would you call 911 if your car ran out of gas?  How about calling a gas
station instead.  The same principle should apply to your boat.  It is
possible to ask for help without panic.

I believe that the original antecdote about firing flares occured at
night off Worton Creek on the Chesapeake Bay.  There is a fairly major
shipping channel close to shore in that area.  I think that perhaps
setting off a flare would be acceptable in order to avoid getting run
over.  On the other hand I can't think of any excuse for running out
of gas on Chesapeake Bay (or Long Island Sound either).