HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lward@husc8.harvard.edu (Lester Ward)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SRUN: a question from the sprawl
Keywords: skills SRUN Srun Shadowrun
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:15:46 GMT

wilder@mik.uky.edu (jeff wilder) writes:
>In <Bw35Iu.EEH@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> phi@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Aeleck) writes:

>|>Say your character decides to up a particular skill by using the
>|>rules for concentrations and specializations.

>|>For instance:
>|> Firearms: 5
>|> -SMG's: 6

Spending 5 points for the Firearms skill, then specializing (during
character construction) would give Firearms 4, SMGs 6.  Once the game
begins, they advance separately.  It's more cost effective to go for
a general skill than it is to build two or more specializations of that
skill.

>ObBitch&Moan:  How many of us were informed that a four line .sig was
>	considered the max in terms of netiquette?  Honestly, I'm just
>	curious.  I find longer .sigs extremely annoying, but it's not
>	real difficult to ignore.  (In fact, the more obnoxious .sig      
>	posters hold a very special place in my killfile.)

Hear, hear!

Wordman

>--
>==============================================================================
>| Jeff W  uk06666@ukpr.uky.edu | Meddle not in the affairs of cats, for they |
>| Wilder  & wilder@mik.uky.edu | are subtle, and will piss on your cyberdeck.|
>==============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: mfterman@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Mutant for Hire)
Subject: Re: The Primal Order - Is it worth it?
Reply-To: mfterman@phoenix.princeton.edu (Mutant for Hire)
Organization: Mutant for Hire, Inc.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 03:36:46 GMT

In article <17890@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, e5af046@cezanne.ucdavis.edu writes:
>Hi!
>
>A question:  I was browsing through the store the other day, and I picked up a
>copy of Wizards of the Coast's "The Primal Order."  Due to circumstances beyond
>my control (read:  shrinkwrapping), I was unable to read any of the material
>within.  Today, however, I just notice a post in rec.games.frp.announce from
>WOTC for "Pawns:  The Opening Move," which I am inferring is
>supporting material for TPO.  Should a prospective god-maker buy TPrO,
>and P:TOM?

Okay, Primal Order is good in that it allows one to create an
interesting system of gods, and some tips on how to deal with multiple
pantheons, if that's your style. One problem that most systems have
with gods is that they are either waving them off as omnipotent
creatures, which makes it difficult to resolve two gods in conflict,
or giving stats for them, and giving the possibility of a player
seriously challenging a god.

It also contains some rather interesting ideas for how to set up
multiple planes that is good even if you don't use the diety material.
The deity material is good. Explains how a god can always smash a
mortal without having them be all powerful. Also allows for
interesting battles between powerful mortals and a god's servants. It
also gives interesting possibilities for how to handle clerics in such
a way as not to make them just a funny version of magicians, and how
to handle minor divine intervention. (one spell laced with primal flux
can do wonders!)

Pawns: The Opening Move is a book that one may give a miss on. Its
really a high powered monster manual, when you get right down to it.
Its purely a list of creatures that have some interesting powers. Some
can be dealt with (individually) by a low powered party. Others get
into fights with demigods. Some of these creatures would make a decent
ultimate monster to fight in a climatic battle. Many are explicit
"treasure guard" material. Some of the powers are interesting, but
very very lethal. One creature disintigrates anything that hits it,
and another one has an instant corruption ability. If you send high
powered creatures into combat a lot, this book has interesting ideas.
For lowered powered campaigns, its a bit deadly. (even though some of
the beings are benign)

-- 
    Martin Terman, Mutant for Hire, Mad Scientist, Priest of Shub-Internet
    Disclaimer: Nobody else takes me seriously, why should you be the first?
mfterman@phoenix.princeton.edu mfterman@pucc.bitnet terman@pupgga.princeton.edu
"Sig quotes are like bumper stickers, only without the same sense of relevance"
From: rible@vorpal.dell.com (Max "Surfing Huge Intrusions" Rible)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SRUN: Da Minotaur has *more* Questions!!!
Keywords: shadowrun
Date: 13 Oct 92 00:00:31 GMT
Distribution: usa

dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (SilverFang Ahroun) writes:

>mancinis@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (steven mancini) writes:


>>4. Physical Adept Killing Hands: Are you other GM's limited in the
>>   'danger zone' this creates? Is it *only* their hands or could a
>>   physical adept with this power deliver a lethal elbow smash?
>>   Kick to the Groin? (yeah it is lethal enough I know)  Head Butt?

>Hmm. I don't see a problem with letting the PA deliver other routines
>besides hand oriented ones. 

I always figured it was where a PA was concentrating his power. 
Hands, elbows, knees, forehead, whatever you want.  (Anyone remember
Blank Reg from "Max Headroom"?)  It might be cheaper to have one
single attack specialised, but I wouldn't throw that in until the
rules had an appropriate degree of detail added first.

Can a PA demonstrate that he's more than just an ordinary martial
artist, say, by using Killing Hands to clap his hands together
and produce an unnaturally large sound?  It's nice to be able to
perform presence attacks--- saves actually going up and breaking
necks.
--
/-----------------------v---------------------------------------\
| Max Rible             | "Spontaneous combustion!  What a      |
| rible@vorpal.ucsb.edu |  stroke of luck!" - Sam & Max         |
\-----------------------^---------------------------------------/
From: seurer@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Bill Seurer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Newbie System?
Date: 9 Oct 92 18:42:55 GMT
Reply-To: BillSeurer@vnet.ibm.com
Organization: IBM Rochester
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM

In article <7150@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
|>
|> 	I never play premades. This keeps me out of  tournaments, I suppose,
|> but then tournaments never struck me as particularly productive either...

You must have a REAL boring time at conventions.  I don't think I have
played in any convention events for years now that didn't use pre-made 
characters.  "Bring your own character" events always struck me as
"munchkin delights" (I can provide many examples) and "Create your own
character" events don't work with most game systems.  Maybe TFT and
OD&D are about the only systems with which you can create a reasonable
character on the fly.

Yet some of the best role playing I have seen (and done) has been at 
conventions using pre-made characters.

To each her (or his) own...

- Bill Seurer     Language and Compiler Development      IBM Rochester, MN
  Internet: BillSeurer@vnet.ibm.com    America On-Line: BillSeurer@aol.com
From: cm182s182@pdrome.UUCP (Clayton Miner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: RFD: GURPS disad limits
Date: 11 Oct 92 12:15:52 GMT
Organization: The PowerDrome BBS [(716)825-3614 Excelsior]
X-BBS-Software: EXCELSIOR! v0.960

The term disads is a stupid term!  I was comment on the term itself not the 
game!  You in turn seem awfully defensive about a game that was not even under 
question.
 
Skeksis
From: gray@visix.com (Gray Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: GURPS:  Headbutt??
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:44:17 GMT
Reply-To: gray@visix.com (Gray Jones)
Organization: Visix Software, Reston, Virginia


What kind of damage does a head butt do?



What is the penalty to hit with it (if their is one at all)?

--gray
From: dutech@reseau.Berkeley.EDU (Groupe ELEVES)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Star Wars questions
Keywords: skill points, force points, how many?
Date: 7 Oct 92 14:41:42 GMT
Reply-To: dutech@reseau.Berkeley.EDU (Groupe ELEVES)


  Here down in Toulouse (France), the various Star Wars GMs usually give
the PCs between 6 (for a short 4-to-6 hour adventure) and 20 skill
points (for a 12-to16 hour adventure). We used to focus on the rythmn of
play rather than the goals attained at the end of the game. At the end
of 3 years, the most experienced PC was about 300 points, and the
majority of the "veterans" were between 150 and 250 points.

  We also discarded the WEG rule concerning equipment improvement using
skill points. We judged it too harsh, because the choice is easy between
self improvement (permanent, inaccessible) and equipment improvement
(prone to theft, destruction or damage). And we tech-like PCs - I know
it's somehow against the spirit of SW, but we like to play that way.
So we decided that each PC could use 1 free point for equipment impro-
-vement for each 2 he/she gained during actual play, provided he could
find the skills, materials and money required for such an improvement.
It worked quite well, without many excesses.

  As long as the Force Points were concerned, we strictly adhere to the
WEG rules concerning "herioic actions at a dramatically appropriate
time". Such moments were quite uncommon in modules, and PCs often had no
more Force Points when it occured, so the Force Points were in low
supply (the max a PC ever had was 4). We liked it better that way.

  For Fighter combat, we used mainly the Rules, with a small
modification : we introduced the Fighter Tactics skill (a Mechanical-
based skill) and said that, if fighter A's roll was > 1.5x fighter B's,
then A had tactical advantage over B (essentially, A was in the "6
hours" of B), which precludes any shot with forward-firing weapons by B.
  Note that Y-wings, B-wings and small crafts, being equipped with
turrets, were not disadvantaged as much as single-manned crafts - but
it's just fair.

  Well, I hope it was not utterly boring...

							Redwing.
From: cm182s182@pdrome.UUCP (Clayton Miner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: RFD: GURPS disad limits
Date: 11 Oct 92 12:27:12 GMT
Organization: The PowerDrome BBS [(716)825-3614 Excelsior]
X-BBS-Software: EXCELSIOR! v0.960

Let me put it this way...I had the misfortune of having a GURPS player over 
one night (put the brakes on there for a sec).  the misfortune stemmed not 
from the fact the person was a GURPS player but from the particular person.  I 
have had the good fortune of having other GURPS players (and the occasional 
ref) visit and they were just as much fun as anybody else.  I wearly listened 
for about an hour how a particular referee exploited this 'disadd' and that 
'disadd' and generally cruelly crushed his players and when asking what a 
'disadd' was I was told that they were minuses and/or weakness.  Now maybe I 
am just too far out of the mainstream of gaming but when something called a 
'disadd' is explained as a minus, then I gotta wonder why isn't it called a 
minus and what are these people hiding from if they can't refer to things as 
minuses.  This situation got even further muddled when the person started 
talking aboud 'disadds' to their dice rolls!  GEEZ!  :)  Isn't calling a minus 
a 'disadd' like calling dying a terminal episode?  And if it is just a 
terminal episode, does that mean the poor sucker who just croaked might be 
revived in syndication????  If people are gonna start screaming about the 
improper use of 'sexist language' in gaming, then I have the right to start 
complaining about what I see as insane language too...
 
Skeksis
From: mfterman@dae.Princeton.EDU (Mutant for Hire)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SRII: Plant totems,Deities, and Magic.
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:18:47 GMT
Reply-To: mfterman@phoenix.princeton.edu (Mutant for Hire)
Organization: Mutant for Hire, Inc.

In article <1992Oct15.152409.24633@dvorak.amd.com>, markl@dvorak.amd.com (Mark Luedtke) writes:
>In article <1992Oct14.230332.43856@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins) writes:
>>Why not a plant shaman, or a fungus shaman, certainly readers of swamp
>>thing out there can identify.  I can imagine tree shamans would be
>>very popular among the druids, also ivy, holly, and mistletoe shamans.
>>Plants have been an important part of many shamanic traditions.  

Well, one of the problems is that trees work on a different time scale
than humans, remember. That's one of the reasons that your average
insect shaman is insane, insects simply think far too alien for
humans. Imagine how different a plant would be.

In the London Sourcebook there are druid rules, which apparently are
going to be in the Grimore II as well with adjustments. There are
rumors of Sun and Moon totems for those people rumored. Druids do use
mistletoe, in fact, its the only disposable fetish they are allowed.

>>I think deities would make good totems as well.  I think that SRUN
>>shies way from this for religious reasons, not wanting to step on nay
>>censor's toes out there, but for many magical traditions it is a
>>patron deity that is the totem.  Even in Native American religions,
>>totems are closer to being non anthropomorphic deities than they are
>>some animal spirit.  If you go with the western tradition of

Indeed, I'd love to see the Loa done in the Shadowrun system. Oops,
your character has just become a Horse in the middle of the run...
Of course, you have the difficulty of what sort of Conjury powers such
priests get. It'd be difficult to figure out for some pantheons
exactly what they'd be conjuring up.

>I am considering creation of Christian magicians who get their power from
>patron Saints.  Very similar to the shamanic tradition, using the Saints
>as Totems.  I think I will only allow them to summon spirits in Great Form,
>however, and only after they become an initiate.  Of course, if they
>are affiliated with a church, they will have very hand magical groups to
>assist them.  I plan to allow bonuses and penalties by patron much like
>the current totem modifiers.

Highly recommended reading for anyone who wants to mix magic and
Christianity is the Deryni books by Katherine Kurtz. In fact, there is
a book called Deryni Magic which summarizes all the magic that has
appeared in the whole series. Instead of the Shamanistic approach,
these books use a hermetic style to magic, associating four Archangels
with the four elements, for example.
-- 
    Martin Terman, Mutant for Hire, Mad Scientist, Priest of Shub-Internet
    Disclaimer: Nobody else takes me seriously, why should you be the first?
mfterman@phoenix.princeton.edu mfterman@pucc.bitnet terman@pupgga.princeton.edu
"Sig quotes are like bumper stickers, only without the same sense of relevance"
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: eschneid@photon.tamu.edu (Erich R Schneider)
Subject: Re: SR:  Spider Totem
Organization: Texas A&M University
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 07:29:38 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.215153.1968@u.washington.edu> mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner) writes:

>I don't like the way FASA handles Insect and Insect-like totems--it's 
>too blatantly evil, no moral ambiguity.  In my opinion, you shouldn't be
>able to tell whether someone's friend or foe by knowing their totem,
>even if they are a Cockroach....

Interesting that you bring this up. In White Wolf's _Werewolf_, each
of the thirteen Garou tribes has its own totem animal. The totem
animal of the Glass Walkers tribe (the only tribe that voluntarily
lives in cities) is the cockroach. Why? It's all over the place in
most cities, and it's damned hard to eliminate.

(The Glass Walkers also have an interesting attitude among werewolves;
while most of the others tend to bellyache a lot about the rise of
urban areas, the Glass Walkers basically say, "Deal with it. If they
aren't part of Gaea's plan, why did She let the damn things get
built?")

A Shadowrun Cockroach shaman's characteristics would probably be (off
the top of my head): plusses to "deception" type spells, a fear of
open spaces and bright lights (involving a penalty like Owl's,
probably), and perhaps some kind of ability to withstand non-Drain
damage. I suppose a mandated behavior of "if discovered, run away
and hide" would be appropriate.
--
Erich Schneider  eschneid@cs.tamu.edu

"Today/Yes  Winners/Yes Losers/Yes  In the Zone/Yes  Tomorrow/No"
                       - Walter Jon Williams, _HardWired_


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: jmkaraka@eos.ncsu.edu (JOHN MARTIN KARAKASH)
Subject: Re: Vampire
Originator: jmkaraka@c00078-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: jmkaraka@eos.ncsu.edu (JOHN MARTIN KARAKASH)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:02:27 GMT


|>>    I play, and have played Vampire since its release, and I really enjoy it,
|>>but it does have flaws.
|>
|>>    a) some of the worst technical editing I've seen this decade
|>>        see pg. XX, poor organization, bad proofing, etc.
|>
|>	This problem occurs in many printed games, and considering that
|>Vampire has an INDEX, I'd count you're blessings.

	There are also many, many games (older than Vampire) that do it RIGHT!
|>
|>>    b) too many 'gray' areas in the rules
|>>        does celerity work for spell actions?, what happens to 'extra'
|>>        damage when a vamp is wounded all the way down, etc, etc
|>
|>	But I LIKE grey !!
|>

	Personal opinion there.  But I'd rather ignore a rule than have to
	make one up on the spur of the moment (I can do it, but...)

|>>    c) a 'widget' system of powers
|>>        almost every new discipline, power, psionic, faith powers and spells 
|>>        (see Hunters and Hunted, Werewolf, Player's Guide...) has a new rule
|>>        mechanic.  The 'system' seems to fracturing as bad as the 'basic
|>>        role-playing system' that Chaosium claimed to be sticking to years ago.
|>
|>	SO ?? Variety is the spice of (un)LIFE !!
|>
	Different POWERS is fine, but a different RULE MECHANIC for each one!


|>>    d) a loosely thought out magic system
|>>        (see points c & b)  this one is really sad, since these are the
|>>        people who put out Ars Magica!
|>
|>	IMHO Vampire doesn't need a magic system, and I am planning on ignoring
|>it to the best of my unwordly powers. Therefore, WHO CARES ? Not this savage,
|>rampaging dreadnaught of a vamped out black duck.
|>
	:)


|>>    e) (minor point) a difficulty scale that tops out at 10, very poor
|>>        design that
|>
|>	IT WORKS !!
|>

	It does not! (at the high end, anyway)  But if we get into that
	discussion, we'll have to take this to another newsgroup.


   -john 'a methuselah?  I got just the thing...' karakash-
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: thiggins@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tarry Higgins)
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: alt.games.frp.live-action
Reply-To: thiggins@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 01:39:54 +0000


PROPOSAL: alt.games.frp.live-action

well I'm all for it, having been seriously into LRP for a number of 
years now, harking back to the days of Treasure Trap at Peckforton 
Castle (England) some nine/ten years ago.  


Taz AKA thiggins@cix.compulink.co.uk AKA Tarry A Higgins
The only valid test is combat,           
The only valid result is victory.

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: picl17@fsphy1.physics.fsu.edu (Jeffrey Johnson)
Subject: Re: Why not NET.GURPS ST: TNG??
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: picl17@fsphy1.physics.fsu.edu
Organization: F.S.U. Dept of Physics
Distribution:  world
Date:  8 OCT 92 10:06:59    

In article <3806@bcstec.ca.boeing.com>, hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall) writes...
> 
>On the subject of a net file for ST-TNG: I think it's a cool idea, but I'd
>rather see a system-independent supplement that a GM can modify for any game
>system. I.e. keep out the system-specific rules and just include relative
>values. Perhaps an appendix can be included for conversion to various game
>systems.
> 

True, this is probably a better idea.  However, making an appendix to 
convert things to various game systems can be tough; over the summer, I
worked on the conversion notes for TPO: Bestiary, so I have an idea what it 
involves.

Travis
picl17@fsphy1.physics.fsu.edu
"He-who-has-no-.sig"
From: laird@think.com (Laird Popkin)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: GURPS: Race Creation Question
Date: 13 Oct 1992 22:33:05 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: django.think.com

In article <Bw2IzK.13q@cck.coventry.ac.uk> gdg019@cck.coventry.ac.uk (Ridley McIntyre) writes:
>Okay, so I'm sold. All those who remember me from the GURPS flamewar ages
>ago can calm down, because I'm going to give the game a second chance.

Cool.  I hope you like it.

>I'm running a GURPS Space game soon (when I can get a copy of the Near Star
>Map from 2300AD - any offers?) and I'm a wee bit confused about the way in
>which GURPS handles the creation of different races.

[stuff deleted as an offering to appease the net.bandwidth gods]

>Example:
>
>I'm currently working on a Vargr-type race. The Race has:
>
>Alertness +3...... 15 points 
>Nightvision....... 10 points
>Claws............. 15 points
>Ultrasonic Hearing 5 points
>Impulsiveness..... -10 points
>
>The total cost is 35 points. Now does a new player with 100 points to spend
>on his character have to spend 35 points on being one of these Vargr-types,
>leaving them with only 65 points left to create a character with; or do they
>get to spend their 100 points on developing the above character anyway.
>
>I understand it's unfair to other players who might choose to be human and
>then find the other characters more powerful than they are, but (like first
>edition Shadowrun) it means that other races are at a disadvantage simply
>for being other races, and that's even more unfair, IMO.

That's pretty much how non-humans work in Fantasy Folk and Aliens,
actually.  Non-humans get an advantage, albeit a dubious one, in that the
disadvantages which are a part of the racial definition don't count against
the -40 point suggested limit, so a member of your Vargr-like race could
have 155 points of advantages, stats, and skills and 55 points of
disadvantages, low stats and quirks, totalling 100 points, while a normal
human could have 145 - 45 = 100.  Personally, I don't see this as much of
an advantage, since the abilities are balanced against disadvantages, but
that's just my opinion.

If you want a cool system for creating truly alien aliens, pick up a copy
of GURPS Uplift.  It provides a system for taking aliens from their
environment and original form (e.g. a reptilian predator on a heavy gravity
planet) and simulates evolution.  This produces aliens which are much more
interesting than the stereotypical cat people, reptile people, and so on,
since they've got a consistent psychology, physique, and background.  I hae
to confess that I'm biased, since I loved the Uplift books...

>So, can anyone give me any house-rules, pointers-in-the-right-directions,
>canonical rulings, etc.? Loyd? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?


Hope this helps...
-- 
- Laird Popkin, Thinking Machines

Connection Machine: Massively parallel supercomputer.  Also a cool black
cube with more blinking lights than you can shake a stick at.