HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: johna@telly.on.ca (John Ashwood)
Subject: German Manuscripts
Organization: Somewhere just far enough out of Toronto
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 06:07:19 GMT

Greetings from Terence Kirkpatrick...  I am posting a message on behalf of
a friend...  Any correspondance to this message, feel free to send it to my
E-mail address and I will make sure she gets it...


Unto the populace of the Knowne World.

My name is Edelgard Erszebet von Wurttemberg, and I am looking for German
Cook Books, perferably, dated 1200-1625, but others would be welcome.
Original manuscripts, untranslated would be prefered, but translations with
the German Original would be welcome.  I am currently interested in doing
the translations.  If anyone has a German manuscripts they wish
translated,or know of one which should be translated please let me know.


PS I will do other manuscripts (German) as well.

Terence Kirkpatrick                mka John Ashwood
Barony of Septentria                   Toronto, Ontario
Ealdormere                             (416)749-4236
Middle Kingdom                         johna@telly.on.ca


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: robdean@access.digex.com (Rob Dean)
Subject: Re: Wicca and the SCA
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 01:50:56 GMT

donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal) writes:

<description of span of "period" deleted>

>....You can see that depending on WHERE you are in the world, 
>that can cover a lot of spiritual ground. Plenty of room for a Pagan 
>to find a home prior to the introduction (or assault) of Christianity.
>
>I prefer to place myself as an 8th Cent. Irish Brewer and Troubador. 
>(Yes I know that means 700's) This should give me plenty of room to 
>live my faith as well as The Dream(tm).
>
>Blessed Be.
>
>Donal, SysAdmin of The Brewer's Witch BBS -- +1 713 272 7350
>(SCA) Ld. Donal Dubh, IC of Dun Bruddair, B of the Stargate, K of Ansteorra

Hmmmm...pardon my vast ignorance, but if you'd have asked me, I'd have
thought that Ireland was pretty well Christianized by the 8th century,
with the exception of the the Viking settlements.  I seem to recall 
reading somewhere that Ireland was exporting missionaries to the cont-
inent about this time.  Any real Ireland buffs out there?

Rob Dean
(sometime Byzantinist)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: betel@camelot.bradley.edu (Robert Crawford)
Subject: Re: Sitting on the fence (was Re: Pentacles/Consorts)
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 12 Sep 92 01:14:19 GMT

aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:
>>	The majority of the SCA is in the US.
>Yeah?  Well, come over here and say that, Gringo!

	No offense intended :-)

>>	The flyflot is still a sacred symbol in my religion. I had
>>this explained to me after I saw it engraved on the floor of a church.
>>However, most people connect it with the Nazis, and for that reason it
>>is not allowed in arms. (The flyflots I saw were mirror images of the
>>swastika, reflected along one axis so that the legs pointed
>>counter-clockwise.)
>The swastika was used both ways by the Nazis.  A three-armed version is
>currently used by some interesting South African groups.

	I was unaware of both directions being used by the Nazis --
thank you for pointing that out. I have seen some of the symbols in
use in South Africa, however.

>I find the idea of prohibiting registration of two symbols to be puzzling.
>I do not think it is effective in its goal.  Anybody can display a pentacle
>anywhere, thus allowing the local religious zealots to see it on every pouch,
>pendant and, yes, shield.  While the Corporation can indeed reassure the
>local religious zealots (or suspicious Satan-hunting cops) that there is no
>corporate sanction for the use of the symbol, I think the net ill effect is
>no different.

	True, but I'd rather be able to say that, "The Society
discourages the use of those symbols, because of their modern
connotations. However, some of our members adopt them independently
for their own reasons."

--
Do not try to have the last word. You might get it.
                                     -Lazarus Long

Robert Crawford 			betel@camelot.bradley.edu
From: lindal@goddess.asd.sgi.com (Linda Levy)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic Land Allocation
Date: 9 Sep 92 20:37:50 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

|> You know, at crown curia this weekend past, I heard the Kingdome
|> Seneschal make a financial report to us that basically said
|> "we're in *really* tough shape"...And that we needed a source
|> of readily available income. So I stood up and suggested a head
|> tax on event attendance. 1$ per person, per event they attend.

|> 
|> You should have heard the uproar. There were people who actually
|> called me an elitist snot for suggesting that taxes should be
|> placed on attendance to support the kingdom. These same people
|> seemed to think we should apply for government grants or, 
|> run *bingoes* to raise money.

> 
|> Apparantly corpora forbids a kingdom to "tax" for revenue.
|> Sounds to me like we need to change corpora, or stop sending
|> our mambership cash to the people in milipitas.
|> 
|> Carolus Malvoix
|> Montengarde An Tir
|> Until I read this I'd
|> managed to stay calm about the issue...


greetings.

Again, an interesting interKingdom change. In the West THE ONLY SOURCE of 
income for the Kingdom is from exactly that.. extra fees charged at the
 gate for Kingdom events.  (maybe thats the difference?  Were you 
talking about extra fees at ALL events, no matter how small?) One 
arguement against our Moving Our Purgatorio coronation to an outer
group was that the event would be smaller and the Kingdom couldn't afford
to lose the revenue from one of only six events.

Linda of the lakelands (west)
lindal@asd.sgi.com
Purgatorio 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Symbols
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 11:11:27

 RC> >The swastika was used both ways by the Nazis.  A three-armed version is
 RC> >currently used by some interesting South African groups.

 RC>      I was unaware of both directions being used by the Nazis --
 RC> thank you for pointing that out. I have seen some of the symbols in
 RC> use in South Africa, however.

 There is a design using a three-bent-armed figure currently in submission,
 from the Ansteorran "monster letter" of 15 June. More than one commenter
 has pointed out that it closely resembles a symbol used by some extremist
 groups in South Africa (although I know the submitter, and I'm fairly
 confident that he wasn't aware of the connection when he made the
 submission). I would not be surprised to see that submission returned, and
 that particular figure put on the "banned" list, because of that
 association.

    Tadhg, Obelisk

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Subject: Re: Prince of Thieves Wrongos
Reply-To: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 14:41:41 GMT

In article <716037084.F00003@blkcat.UUCP>, Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:
|> Balderik (cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)) points out:
|> 
|>  B> When Robin is crossing a stream, there is a shot which
|>  B> allows one to see that his boots have HEELS.
|> 
|> So when did boots start to have heels?
|> 

I can't give a definitive answer to that question because
what research I've done on the topic does not extend into
the time period when boots/shoes had heels (ie. I have not
specifically researched the introduction of the heel).

In the Museum of London publication _Shoes_and_Pattens_, which summarizes
the analysis of some 1500 finds from between 1100 and 1450, I don't
believe there is a single shoe with anything that could be called a 'heel'.
Although most of my references are for Viking age finds, I'm fairly certain
that heels were not used anywhere near when RH:POT was supposed to have
taken place.  Although I'm just guessing, the time frame given by Mike
Squires in his response (late 16th or 17th centuries) sounds right, although
I lean towards 17th century.  Perhaps someone with more experience in late
period footwear (Aryk???) could help us out.

Cheers,
Balderik
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Pennsic Land Allocation
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 21:59:23 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.203750.29362@odin.corp.sgi.com> lindal@goddess.asd.sgi.com (Linda Levy) writes:
>Again, an interesting interKingdom change. In the West THE ONLY SOURCE of 
>income for the Kingdom is from exactly that.. extra fees charged at the
> gate for Kingdom events.  (maybe thats the difference?  Were you 
>talking about extra fees at ALL events, no matter how small?) One 
>arguement against our Moving Our Purgatorio coronation to an outer
>group was that the event would be smaller and the Kingdom couldn't afford
>to lose the revenue from one of only six events.

Of course, there were less event *expenses*, too.  (Though I dare say
the Kingdom Travel Fund got tapped.)

Since West-An Tir was in the West this year, plus two Collegia, and Art &
Sciences are kingdom events too, 6 seems like too small a number.  (On
the other hand--you've dealt with this a lot more closely than I ever
have.)

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: Riki.Stein@f906.n142.z1.fidonet.org (Riki Stein)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Using period words to refer to mundanities
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 22:52:58 -0500

Godfrey! How have you been doing in Trimaris? And where did you come up with the
term "boggard?" I, myself, prefer the terms "privy" or "jakes." Also, saying
"head cook" instead of -horrors- "feastocrat."

-Lady Ariane Baccadoro
Chatelaine Beyond the Mountain, EK


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: pjb4288@ultb.isc.rit.edu (Pete - Toonatic - Boulay)
Subject: Another Birth Announcement!
Originator: pjb4288@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Distribution: ny
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 00:22:58 GMT

Yes...yet another in the recent abundance of births...

Alexander Joseph Boulay
10 pounds 8 ounces 22" long
2:30pm on 9/5/92
at Strong Memorial Hospital...

My nephew, and a handsome one at that!

Lorin Francis Renaud
Elder Town Crier
Ravensnest, Thescorre, East.

-- 
Peter J. Boulay --17 Split Rock Road-Pittsford, NY 14534-The ToonAddict!
Email should be sent only to PJB4288@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Disclaimer: You don't like what I'm writing? Oh well.
"Well shut my mouth wide open!"- Tiny Toons HISMV
From: mikes@moose.cs.indiana.edu (Michael Squires)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Weather - was Re: Pennsic prices
Summary: it froze
Keywords: Pennsic
Date: 15 Sep 92 03:28:06 GMT
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington

In article <k!zn=tl.dani@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:

>	very humid, nights can get within shouting distance of freezing, and

At Pennsic XIII Sunday night there was frost on the ground, it dropped to 35.
It had been 85 on Sunday, if I remember correctly.

-- 

Mike Squires (mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu)     812 855 3974 (w) 812 333 6564 (h)
mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu          546 N Park Ridge Rd., Bloomington, IN 47408
From: Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Late Night Noises (was Pennsic Land Allotment)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1992 21:40:10 -0500

Nicholas van Leyden (ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)) wrighteth :-)

 EVW> I may be mistaken, but I believe I read somewhere in the Pennsic 
 EVW> information booklet that quiet hours began at midnight.

I think it was later than that, but your point remains valid, that it was
regularly violated with impunity.  Perhaps a "quiet end" could be instituted
like at other events.  Envision the land grab after a few decades:

 "How many people in your encampment?"
 "Five."
 "You get 1150 square feet.  Want to buy any more?"
 "Yes, we'd like 200 extra square feet."
 "That's $200.  Partying, or non-partying?"
 "Partying."
 "Period, or non-period?"
 "Non-period."
 "Fighting, or non-fighting?"
 . . .

B-)
From: bnostran@ds5000.DAC.Northeastern.edu (Barbara Nostrand)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Filk and the SCA
Date: 11 Sep 92 05:36:58 GMT
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA

Gentles!

First, I must say that those who do filk are frequently fine and
talented individuals.  But, I must ask why must "filk" be done
in the SCA?  As I recall, "filk" is a fanish activity which
derives its name from a misprint in a Science Fiction Convention
Program.  Now, I have been known to attend science fiction 
conventions.  But, I rather prefer that the SCA be different
from a Con.  Those who wish to do filk have pleanty of oportunity
at conventions so why must they do filk at bardic circles?
I really see no need for heroic poems about Jedi Knights, SNOFs
or the other furniture of fandom at a "medieveal/renesaince"
event.  

That said, "cat calls" are a reprehensible activity and should be
strongly condemned.  On the other hand being "turned away" may not
be so bad.  Should we also encourage U.S. revolutionary war,
U.S. civil war, "regency" or the "Loyal Order of the Water Buffaloes"
matterial at SCA bardic circles?  Yes, these people are our friends.
They may even be us!  But, do we need to play all of our respective
games in the SCA?  On the other hand, perhaps I could deliver a talk
on my disseratation:  "Chiral Polytopes and Groups of Rank 4" at the A&S
tent at Pennsic next year.  Maybe I should even expect to get a Laural
for it.  (I do expect to get a Ph.D. for it.)

That said, I will also say that I personally do not object to all the
different variations of "Men of Harlick", "Empirial Compound" and
even the song about a notable duke between lilly white sheets.  Or even
the Horde song based on "The Future Belongs to Me".  These songs may 
frequently be of modern form but generaly treat the SCA as a "medieval"
reality of one sort or another.  (We do need songs to recount our own
history, society and politics.)

That said, I will vacilate one more time!  Even with all of this.  If
a bardic circle is advertised as being a re-creation of say a 11th
century Irish bardic circle or the court of Alfonso X, then all of
these noble songs should be left at home.

						Your Humble Servant
						Solveig Throndardottir
						Totally Ignorant

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sharons@juliet.ll.mit.EDU (Sharon Stanfill)
Subject: pentacles
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:50:25 GMT



Could I ask for a bit more courtesy in regard to 
the world of the mundanes?  Many of those
who consider the pentacle a symbol of evil are
bigots and, at best, less than reasonable in 
their attitude. However, not everyone who holds
this opinion is, as many posters here seem 
to feel, a raving moron/lunatic/fanatic.  A
considerable percentage of the population (at
least in the US) has very little contact with 
wicca/pagan culture and, in fact, there are many
very reasonable, nice people who have little
or no knowledge of it. They have given little
if any time to the symbolism of the pentacle, 
and given that it is fequently used in popular
fiction as a symbol of evil/devil worship/Satanism,
is it any wonder that they have assumed that this
is the case?  

Certainly, they are incorrect that this is the sole
use of the symbol, and it is a good idea to 
educate such individuals, however, I must protest
against the commonly stated assumption that anyone who
sees the pentacle as a symbol of evil is a 
evil/stupid/fanatic individual.

Nesta ferch Meriadoc Hartley
sharons@juliet.ll.mit.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Pentacles
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 19:02:21 GMT

Branwen mentioned a prohibition in the West on fighting while carrying
stones, charms or herbs of virtue.

So, Branwen, where can I get these "herbs of virtue?"  If I go on down to
Berkeley, and buy some "herbs of virtue" in People's Park, can I bring it
into Canada, or will the Canada Customs throw me in jail? 

Aryk
From: Bob.Upson@f333.n142.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Upson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Pennsic Land Allocation
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 21:22:57 GMT

In article <92Sep09.183021.25229@acs.ucalgary.ca> parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:
>In article <1992Sep9.163333.8406@pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
>>In article <716037084.F00005@blkcat.UUCP> Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:
>>>aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writeth:
>>>
>>> AN> Of course that is ridiculous.  People spend money on what they think is
>>> AN> important, not on what I think is important.
>>>
>>>And even that ass-u-me-s that they HAVE money; 
>>
>>This adds some *major* assumptions.  We've had discussions in the past
>>over SCA costs--membeship and armor, mostly.  
> 
>You know, at crown curia this weekend past, I heard the Kingdome
>Seneschal make a financial report to us that basically said
>"we're in *really* tough shape"...And that we needed a source
>of readily available income. So I stood up and suggested a head
>tax on event attendance. 1$ per person, per event they attend.

As noted elsewhere, the West simply sets gate fees in a way to attempt
to 'not lose' money.  Generally we get it right.  The result is that
the West is on a financially sound footing.  (And this in a state with
notoriously high land prices--even when you're just renting it.)

Another point was not addressed.  In the West--the kingdom gets the
money over and above costs from all Kingdom Events.  I am givent o
understand that this is not true everywhere--that in many kingdoms,
the local group that hosts the event keeps the 'profit'.  In the West,
the kingdom is reasonably well heeled--and the other branches have
quite limited resources.  I presume that this pattern is reversed in
those kingdoms that let the local group keep the extra money.  

I am quite prepared to concede that the 'rich-Baronies-poor-Kingdom'
model is probably more period--at least, early period.  But which
works better as a practical matter here and now?

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: History vs. dreams
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 20:30:24 GMT

In article <PA142548.279.715965481@utkvm1.utk.edu> PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer) writes:

>You are incorrect.  Those who fail to goose-step to the turn of the rigid 
>reproduction of life in the Old Middle-Ages are persecuted.

GREAT!

Maybe I'll start going to SCA events again!

\8-)

Aryk Nusbacher
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: Paying the Pennsic Piper, er, Autocrat
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:54:19 GMT

Naturally I suggested to take the topic of paying the Pennsic Autocrat
to email about the time everyone else started making their suggestions.
Ain't it alway the way? ;-)

Anyway, I'm glad to see such an interest being taken, so I'll throw
out another poser for you to think on. If we pay the Autocrat, then what 
about the Security Chief, Chirugeon General, Trollocrat, and all their
necessary staffs? Someone is going to feel left out by not getting any
money for the hard work they do. Work that is no easier than Autocrat.

In service,

Corun


-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra     |      But what if this hadn't been
  Dark Horde by birth   |        a rhetorical question?
    Moritu by choice    |                            C. Nelson
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Hired chef (was Re: Pennsic Land Allocation
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:32:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.024429.29713@access.digex.com> corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra) writes:

>OK, all of these are valid arguments for hiring historians and fighters and
>chefs (oh my!). But if we hire a professional Autocrat for Pennsic, the
>question arises; Do we hire form within the SCA or not? 

You find somebody qualified.  Anyone hired would almost certainly be a 
Scadian.

>If we hire from
>within, the old accusations of bias and unfairness will come up just as 
>strongly than they might if we hired outside the SCA, but then how do you
>accept and/or train a mundane Autocrat. 

Accusations of bias or unfairness?  Like what?  The Steward is certainly
accused of those things (yea, verily, here on the net), but that doesn't seem
to make her less effective as Stew.  Maybe "the old accusations" will come
up, but so what?  At least the autocrat will walk away with a few bucks to
compensate.  And a non-Scadian would indeed be difficult to put in that
position.

>Then there's the loss of incentive to do
>anything like a good job if the person's paid for it. You know what's happened
>to the work ethic in this country.

I don't believe a person does a worse job if he's paid for it.  Besides,
a cleverly-written contract could pay bonuses and exact penalties for
quality or bad work.

Right now we all have to be grateful to the Autocrat of Pennsic for doing us
a big favour by giving up his or her life for a year and having a miserable
hard-working war.  I'd rather just pay somebody to do the job.

Aryk Nusbacher

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cctimar@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Charles)
Subject: Re: Using period words to refer to mundanities
Organization: Vanderbilt University student of numerology
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 92 15:39:13 GMT

To all upon the Rialto doth Charles the clerk send his greetings!

Lindorm Eriksson writeth:
> Gate guard for troll. <Whatever a person who arranged feast for his master
> was called in English in period> for autocrat.

"Nervous."  Also, head cook for feastocrat.

> historian. Children for smalls. Telephone for far speaker

For those who find "children" too boring, "childer" was another
legitimate plural.

As Lindorm mentions, it is better to describe the action without
mentioning the mode.  That is, it is better to say, "I spoke to Anne
this afternoon," than to say, "I telephoned Anne this afternoon."
Similarly, "I came here with John," is better than, "I came in John's
wagon," although that is still better than, "I came in John's dragon."
-- 
    -- Charles, student, in Glaedenfeld, Meridies
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca