From: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Socratic silliness (was Re: Multiple Orientations?)
Date: 29 Sep 92 07:53:41
Organization: Natural Language Incorporated
	<1992Sep28.223504.4177@leland.Stanford.EDU>
	<ZEN.92Sep28165017@death.corp.sun.com>
	<1992Sep29.002123.10676@midway.uchicago.edu>
	<ZEN.92Sep29001349@death.corp.sun.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: zen@death.corp.sun.com's message of 29 Sep 92 00:13:49


(If nothing else, check out the story at the end.)

In article <ZEN.92Sep29001349@death.corp.sun.com> zen@death.corp.sun.com (d) writes:
>In article <1992Sep29.002123.10676@midway.uchicago.edu> orc@amber.uchicago.edu (David Parsons) writes:
>> In article <ZEN.92Sep28165017@death.corp.sun.com> zen@death.corp.sun.com (d) writes:
>> |... many people with wonderful ideas did die violently.  I
>> |wonder what would happen if they had backed down when challenged.
>>> Some did.  And then found ways to get around the challenge, and
>> continue to work.  Ideas are an amazingly fluid material; unless you
>> are dead, you can continue to think, and these thoughts will get out
>> from under the most thorough blanket of disapproval.

>But the question is if you keep hiding, will the thoughts ever get
>out?

If you die, will the thoughts get out?  Maybe, maybe not.  As another
great man said "you can put him in the ground, but one day you'll look
around/you'll see a face you don't know, voicing thoughts you've heard
before."  Ideas do not die, although they may disappear for a while.
However, if your goal is to get the ideas out, your chances are
*usually* better if you stay alive.  On the other hand, Socrates was a
special case, because Plato spread his ideas far and wide after he died.

>[...] is it better an individual to live longer, or for them to try to
>influence their world and society? 

Better for *who*?  I don't think either choice is inherently "better."
Individuals make their own choices as to what is right for them.  I do
think it is "better" if people are not constantly told that martyrdom is
the "best" choice, because I do not believe it always is.

>Do we have a responsibility, as
>bisexuals, as people, to change anything, to make it a better world for
>us or for others?

No responsiblity, but we have that choice.  If we choose to do so, we
might have to make other choices, such as whether to continue or die.
Remember that Socrates was quite old (about 70) and had spent many years 
spreading his ideas and choosing to try to change the world.  He may
well have felt that dying was the better choice, but that does not make
it better for all of us.  On the other hand, it is not always a
meaningless or stupid choice (for Socrates, or for others).

Actually, let's try to put a little more bi-relevance in.  Is it likely
that bis will have to choose between silence and death?  That's one of
the myths, that we all choose to hide as straight, so that nothing bad
happens to us.  It's hard (as has been discussed before) to *show* that
you are bisexual (unless you have a good t-shirt or button), so we often
have the choice of being persecuted as either gay or straight.  If we
face death (or danger), will it be as bisexuals or something else?
*Can* we die to demonstrate/defend the strength of our ideas?

Story:  The above reminds me of last weekend.  As I've said before, my
SO is male, but often mistaken for a woman.  So, on Saturday, we were
walking in the Castro, running a few errands.  We passed a female
couple, one of whom muttered "damn breeders."  Well, that's happened
before, and we refuse to pretend to be "just friends"...*smile*.  On
Sunday, we were walking into the park and a (male) voice comes from
across the street.  "Which one gets on top?" followed by "who has the
rubber dong?"  This has happened before, too.  We can afford to find it
funny, but it is also very sad.

*smile*...I'm not sure whether I've agreed or disagreed...probably a
little of both...

Muffy
--

Muffy Barkocy                               muffy@mica.berkeley.edu
~Little round planet/in a big universe/sometimes it looks blessed/
 sometimes it looks cursed/Depends on what you look at, obviously/
 But even more it depends on the way that you see~ - Bruce Cockburn