HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: S_TITZ@iravcl.ira.uka.de (Olaf Titz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Willy Brandt tot
Date: 15 Oct 92 13:20:34 GMT
Organization: Fachschaft Informatik, Uni Karlsruhe
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.23

In <1992Oct14.152606.11589@isa.de> taube@isa.de writes:

>  >consider to change one's name. However, I am not aware
>  >of the reasons which caused Willy Brandt to adopt this
>  >particular pseudonym. Is there an account in his memoirs? 
>  
>  He actually _did_ assume that pseudonym for political reasons--to
>  protect himself from Nazi prosecution (if you want to call that
>  political).  "Herbert Frahm" was a known communist (known to the
>  nazis, that is), but when the Gestapo tracked down a major in the
>  Norwegian army named Willy Brandt (in Norway) they didn't suspect
>  anything, and he was "merely" a prisoner of war during the Norway
>  Campaign.
>  
>  I don't know _where_ he got the peudonym from, though.

He used a duplicated passport from a man who bore that name since his
birth on his escape to Norway (I got that from DIE ZEIT, about 2 years
ago). Brandt was attacked many times during the 50s/60s by the CDU for
assuming a false name and using a false passport. (Another example of
law-and-order bigotry.)


MfG,
        Olaf
-- 
    o     Olaf Titz - comp.sc.student - univ of karlsruhe - germany
 _ /<_    s_titz@iravcl.ira.uka.de - uknf@dkauni2.bitnet - praetorius@irc
(_)>(_)   +49-721-60439 - did i forget something?
In hardware engineering, Ohm's law and Maxwell's equations pale in
  importance and influence next to Murphy's law. - Gordon Bell
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,de.soc.recht
From: lieblm@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Martin Liebl)
Subject: Re: Willy Brandts Tod
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, West Germany
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 09:32:46 GMT
Reply-To: lieblm@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Martin Liebl)

In article <1992Oct15.144022.10323@cs.tu-berlin.de>, yaentz@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Jens Bernotat) writes:

|> P.S. Meiner persoenlichen Meinung nach wuerden wir heute ohne Brandt immer
|>      noch vor einer Mauer hocken - fuer die CDU war ja der ganze Ostblock
|>      nicht-existent, auch eine Version ethischer Zerruettung fragwuerdigsten
|>      Ausmasses - aber das ist, natuerlich, meine ganz persoenliche Meinung.

Jeder hat seine pers"onliche Meinung, es liegt mir fern, dies "andern zu wollen,
und jemand wie Willy Brandt, der f"ur seine Ideale gelebt und einen solch undankbaren Beruf gew"ahlt hat (abh"angig von Abermillionen von uninformierten, desinteressierten W"ahlern), verdient meine volle Hochachtung; eine kleine Anmerkung kann ich mir doch nicht verkneifen.
Originalton W. Brandt (1988):
`` Die Wiedervereinigung ist die gr"o"ste L"uge Deutschlands nach dem zweiten Weltkrieg'' (sinngem"a"s wiedergegeben).
H"atte man die DDR-Staatsb"urgerschaft als solche anerkannt (wie von einigen Leuten u.a. W.Brandt gefordert), w"are die Wiedervereinigung wohl an rechtlichen H"urden gescheitert (die BRD h"atte die DDR annektieren m"ussen oder so).
Gerade durch die offizielle Nicht-Existenz der innerdeutschen (Nicht-)Grenze war das alles m"oglich.

Jaja, ich wei"s, da"s ich ein schwarzes, rechtes, konservatives Ekel bin (yeah, echter Fortschritt ist nur auf der Basis konservativen Denkens m"oglich...).
Die deutsch-deutsche Entwicklung hat wohl die meisten Politiker, egal welcher Partei, "uberrascht, und um die Verdienste der Einheit pr"ugeln sie sich gegenseitig.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
&&&&&	Martin J. Liebl						&&&&&
&&&&&	Email: lieblm@sunbode12.informatik.tu-muenchen.de	&&&&&
&&&&&	Project: Practical Experiments On Murphy's Law ...	&&&&&
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: taube@isa.de (Christian Taube)
Subject: Re: Fussball-Bundesliga, 9.Spieltag
Organization: ISA GmbH, W-7000 Stuttgart 1, Germany
Distribution: world               
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:36:55 GMT

psima01@convex.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (M. Maisack) writes:

>wann findet eigentlich das Nachholspiel Frankfurt-Bayern statt?

Ende Oktober, glaub ich.

C.
-- 
Christian Taube (taube@isa.de), ISA GmbH, 7000 Stuttgart 1, Germany
Any opinions expressed are mine, and mine only! Thought for today:
These are the scientists of the impulse engine "Enterprise."  Her 5-year
mission - to logically go where no shuttle has gone before.
From: chl@mcshh.Hanse.DE (Carsten Lechte)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Spracharroganz
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:14:28 GMT
Organization: Point of Presence & MCS Hamburg


From: aidan@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Aidan Thompson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Spracharroganz

> >Moin!
> Moin yourself!
Taech auch!

> >"Wir haben in Berlin liebe genossen."
> >
> Solche irre Saetze sollte jeder schreiben koennen duerfen. Warum sollte
> man Spass nur beim sprechen haben. Und rein praktisch, wenn man ganz
> klar ohne Hilfe von Klein- und Grossscreiben muendlich kommunikizieren
> kann, warum denn auch nicht schriftlich?

Weil beim gesprochenen Wort noch massig zusaetzliche Information
(Satzmelodie etc.) mitgeliefert wird, nicht eben nur die reinen Buchstaben.

Wenn ich Dir das Ganze muendliche vorbuchstabiere, kannst Du es trotz
'muendlicher Kommunikation' auf zweierlei Weise auslegen.

Man kann obigen Satz so sprechen, dass jeweils beide (oder mehr?;-)
Sinngehalte eindeutig erkannt werden koennen.  Wenn "Liebe" gemeint ist,
betont man das Substantiv staerker, wenn "liebe" als Adjektiv gemeint ist,
tritt es vor dem Substantiv "Genossen" automatisch zurueck. Meines
Erachtens bietet die heutige Schriftsprache ("schriftliche Notation vom
Sinngehalt muendlicher Aeusserungen":-)) _KEINE_ Moeglichkeit, Betonungen
auszudruecken.

Zumindest nicht ohne Grossbuchstaben:-).

> Aidan der Ir(r)e

Carsten der Lechte.

PS: Ich wuensche mir eine Rechtschreibreform, die es mir z.B. freistellt,
ob ich "angst" oder "Angst" habe.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: andrick@sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de (Ulf Andrick [Biologie])
Subject: Re: Reise nach Jerusalem
Organization: University of Kaiserslautern, Germany
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:04:20 GMT

tholome@bangalore.esf.de (Eric Tholome) writes:
: Hallo!
: 
: Ein Freund von mir hat mir erzaehlt, dass der sogennante "Musical chairs" (auf
: English) oder "Les chaises musicales" (auf Franzoesisch) Spiel "Reise nach
: Jerusalem" (auf Deutsh) heisst.
: 
: Wirklich?

Wirklich! Es wird auch ein Lied dazu gesungen, mit dem
Text: ,Wir reisen nach Jerusalem. Wer reist mit? Den ersten,
den zweiten, den dritten wolln wir haben.' oder so
aehnlich. (Irgendwer wird es bestimmt noch auswendig
wissen.)

: 
: Kann jemand mir erklaeren, wovon dieser Name kommt?

Der Text handelt wohl von Pilgerreisen ins Heilige Land.
Die Plaetze auf den Pilgerschiffen waren meist knapp.
Koennte es sich nicht sogar um eine Anspielung auf die
tragischen Kinderkreuzzuege gegen Ende des Mittelalters
handeln? So manches Kinderlied hat einen ernsten
Hintergrund (Schlaf, Kindchen, schlaf...).
: 
: _____________________________________________________________________________
: Eric Tholome       ESF Headquarters             internet: tholome@esf.de
:                    Hohenzollerndamm 152         UUCP:     tholome@esf.uucp
:                    D-1000 Berlin 33             Ph.:      +49 30 82 09 03 25
:                                Germany          Fax:      +49 30 82 09 03 19
: 
: 

--
Ulf R. Andrick                                andrick@rhrk.uni-kl.de
FB Biologie - Tierphysiologie
Universitaet                             Was du nicht selber weiszt, 
D-W 6750 Kaiserslautern       das muszt du dir erklaeren (Tegtmeier)
From: tooka@train.EBay.Sun.COM (Tony Ooka, Jr.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Violence update 30.09.92 (re: Heiner Biesel)
Date: 7 Oct 1992 18:39:50 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: tooka@train.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: train.ebay.sun.com

In article 12302@javelin.sim.es.com, biesel@javelin.sim.es.com (Heiner Biesel) writes:
> weberwu@inf.fu-berlin.de (Debora Weber-Wulff) writes:
> 
> ....[ ]...
> 
> >In other news, the official party for the V2 rocket has been cancelled.
> >But there will be an "inoffical" party, including talks by important
> >people and "a talk on the tragic uses of the first V2's". Complain
> >to your governmental officers! Other countries *must* protest this
> >completely insensitive behavior of the German government!
> 
> Why?
> 
> It is commonplace in other countries to celebrate the Nth anniversary
> of some significant weapon system, never mind the fact that it killed
> many people. How, for example, can the US protest "...this completely
> insensitive behavior..." when it went ot some trouble to find and employ
> the technical people responsible for the V-2? The A-bomb explosion at
> Alamagordo rates an anniversary, and a plaque, why not the V-2?
> 
> Regards,
>        H. Biesel

Yes but should American hypocrisy and insensitivity to the memory of the 
victims be an excuse or justification for German celebration of the V2
achievement? Also note: Germany has a far more gruesome legacy to leave
behind (e.g. the death camps) and should be trying to distance itself from
that past if it is to a trusted leader in the European Community. Yes...
celebrating the V2 is Germany's right but is it sending a message to the
world that German's have learned and really believe in peaceful solutions
to for example the war-torn Balkans? I don't think so.

Regards,

Tony
From: nitsche@carson.u.washington.edu (Gregor Nitsche)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Violence update 9.10.92
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:01:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Oct12.170150.11761
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Oct12.095212.26098@tom.rz.uni-passau.de> baier@forwiss.uni-passau.de (Joern Baier) writes:
>In article <1992Oct11.165549.9317@athena.mit.edu> thomke@mtl.mit.edu (Stefan Thomke) writes:
>>In article <51R734D@math.fu-berlin.de> dww@inf.fu-berlin.de writes:
>>>[...]
>>>Berlin: The youth who killed the cigarette-selling Vietnamese has been
>>>sentenced to 4 1/2 years in jail. The judge noted in his judgement that
>>>the deed was not so much motivated be foreigner hate but by anger at his
>>>own situation.
>>
>>4 1/2 years ! You must be kidding. He kills a man and "gets a slap on the
>>wrist". When is he eligible for parole ? Next year ?
>
>Sorry, but I have to answer in German since my online-dictonary does not
>contain special legal terms.
>Im Strafgesetzbuch (StGB) gibt es zwei Grundtatbestaende, die die Toetung
>eines Menschen betreffen, welche durch eine vorsaetzliche Handlung verursacht
>wurde:
>
>	- Par. 212: Totschlag (Mindeststrafe 5 Jahre)
>	- Par. 226: Koerperverletzung mit Todesfolge (Mindeststrafe 3 Jahre)
>
>Da keine Hoechststrafe angegeben ist, kommt der "Default-Wert" von 15 Jahren
>zum Tragen.
>Meines Wissens wurde der Taeter in dem obigen Fall wegen "Koerperverletzung
>mit Todesfolge" verurteilt, wobei 4,5 Jahre natuerlich am unteren Ende der
>Skala liegt. Fuer die Strafbemessung spielen allerdings eine Reihe von Fak-
>toren eine Rolle, die man als Aussenstehender nicht unbedingt kennt
>(Reue, Vorstrafen, Gestaendnis o.ae.).
>Ebenso schwer ist es, die Abgrenzung zwischen den beiden erwaehnten Straftaten
>vorzunehmen (Totschlag: Vorsatz bezueglich des Todes; Koerperverletzung mit
>Todesfolge: Vorsatz bezueglich der Koerperverletzung, Fahrlaessigkeit bzgl.
>des Todes).
>Ich kann es jedenfalls nicht nachvollziehen wie man bei einem Angriff mit
>einem Messer nicht gleichzeitig auch den Tod des Opfers billigend in Kauf
>nimmt, aber man muesste wirklich die naeheren Umstaende kennen.

Du vergisst, dass es sich bei dem Taeter nach Deborahs post um einen
Jugendlichen handelte und dass er deshalb vermutlich nach dem Jugend-
strafrecht verurteilt werden musste.

>>
>>>Debora Weber-Wulff                       dww@inf.fu-berlin.de
>>
>>Stefan
>
>Tschuess,
>		Joern
Gregor
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.politics.ec
Subject: Re: Maastricht ...encore
Date: 15 Oct 1992 03:01:05 GMT
Organization: sgi
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com
Keywords: a german sunshine story, dealing with the issues

In article <1992Oct14.235256.6834@daimi.aau.dk>, simonl@daimi.aau.dk (Simon Laub) writes:
|> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
|> >It's not the role of either Kohl or Mitterand to organize Europe
|> >for the benefit of Denmark.   Denmark could have supported the UK
|> >at the Maastricht negotiations more strongly than they did.  Instead,
|> >the Danes chose to leave the UK in a minority of one.   Now, after
|> >going along with the other ten at Maastricht, and leaving the UK
|> >to be accused of obstructionism, they are complaining that the other
|> >states are not bending over backwards to make new changes, after the
|> >fact, to suit Denmark?
|>
|>    Just to make it perfectly clear: The danish govt. is pro
|> Maastricht. Has supported Maastricht all the way , and is
|> still a supporter of the Maastricht treaty.

I think this is a perfect example of how confused your thinking
about Europe actually is.   The time I am referring to is the
time when the Maastricht Treaty was being negotiated.   Before
that time, there *was* no Maastricht Treaty to be for or against.

The negotiations at Maastricht were the time when each country
was able to put forward its own proposals for what should go
into the Treaty.    I am asking why, if the Treaty did not suit
Denmark, they didn't ask for variations to it during the 
negotiations, as the UK did.

And then, given that they didn't ask for variations, why should
we make variations now, just because it turns out that the
Danish Govt. didn't bother to find out what their own voters
wanted.

|>    John Major is also a great Maastricht fan (despite his 
|> very recent passionate nationalism).

More confusion.  Joh Major is *not* an unconditional fan of
the whole of the Maastricht Treaty, which is why, at the time 
of the Maastricht negotiations, he went to considerable trouble,
and took considerable heat, to get concessions which allowed 
the UK to opt out of certain provisions of the Treaty.   Denmark
didn't take the trouble to do that.


|> Major has been one of 'the 11 other countries, that will be 
|> very mad at the danes if they vote no' all along.

This is completely untrue.   On the day after the Danish vote
Major specifically said that he repected the Danish right to
choose, and hoped that at some later date they would find it
possible to rejoin.


|> Likewise were the danes used to pressure the british to
|> 'be good europeans'.

Don't you worry about it.   I expect the UK can survive Danish
pressure.   Press away.

|>
|> That tactic is still used and is still VERY undemocratic.

Pardon me?   National Governments expressing their opinions
to one another is "undemocratic"?   That's an bizarre statement.
Just what do you mean by the word "democratic", anyway?

jon.
From: boenig@ze8.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de (Wolfgang B"onig)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Spracharroganz
Date: 16 Oct 92 13:55:26 GMT
Organization: Heinrich-Heine Universitaet Duesseldorf
NNTP-Posting-Host: 134.99.128.18

In article <92680@netnews.upenn.edu> aidan@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Aidan Thompson) writes:
>
>... . Und rein praktisch, wenn man ganz
>klar ohne Hilfe von Klein- und Grossscreiben muendlich kommunikizieren
>kann, warum denn auch nicht schriftlich?
>
>Aidan der Ir(r)e

Nun, ganz praktisch: weil es schriftlich recht schwierig wird, die 
Betonung des Textes zu uebermitteln. Texte in reiner Kleinschreibung
bzw. mit der Einschraenkung, Satzanfaenge und Eigennamen noch gross 
zu schreiben (warum eigentlich so inkonsequent ?), sind jedenfalls
deutlich aufwendiger zu lesen.

Gruss
 
 
yeti sapiens sapiens
 
 
'Im uebrigen bin ich der Meinung,
             daa wir das Apfelbaeumchen pflanzen sollten.

                      Die Zeit draengt.'
From: smk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Stefan Kahrs)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Violence update 13.10.92
Date: 14 Oct 92 18:13:02 GMT
	<ldmitvINN6ej@dimebox.cs.utexas.edu>
	<1992Oct13.233209.1697@u.washington.edu>
Distribution: soc
Organization: University of Edinburgh, LFCS

In article <1992Oct13.233209.1697@u.washington.edu> nitsche@carson.u.washington.edu (Gregor Nitsche) writes:
[...]
>   Furthermore, I do not think that right-wing hooligans are even intere-
>   sted in the constitution being changed - so far, they have been the only
>   ones who have drawn political profit from the existing situation, and any
>   successful attempt to solve the current problems (whatever way) ould only
>   be at their political expense.

I disagree with this argument for two reasons:

(i) The average right-wing hooligan is not intelligent enough
for that sort of cynicism.

(ii) What does "political profit" mean?
Running well in the polls (as Labour in Britain :-) ?
Or isn't it merely having laws and regulations changed the way you like it?
"Running well in the polls" is a rather abstract profit, in particular
if you are not a supporter of a parliamentary democracy.
--
Stefan Kahrs
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,de.soc.recht
From: root@fns.gold.sub.org (Peter Bechtold)
Subject: Re: Willy Brandts Tod
Organization: Peter's News Server, Munich, Germany
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:19:13 GMT

In <n-hPr*922@mania.hotb.sub.org> lkv@mania.hotb.sub.org (Lutz Vieweg) writes:

>In article <ldbg9rINN9o4@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, Eric Silber writes:

>>  Ein guter Mensch ist hingegangen.

>Soso, jener Herbert Frahm, der sich spaeter aus offensichtlichen Gruenden
>spaeter in "Willy Brandt" umnannte, und der in seinem Werk
>"Verbrecher und andere Deutsche" seine Landsleute uebel verunglimpfte,
>den nennst Du einen "guten Menschen".

>Ich jedenfalls kann nur betrauern, das der Mann nicht schon viel
>frueher ins Gras gebissen hat.

>cu, Lutz Vieweg

Hallo, kannst Du oben gesagtes etwas genauer ausfuehren, ich kann das nicht
ganz nachvollziehen (sag jetzt bitte nicht: Das ist doch klar, oder Lies
das Buch ...)

peter

-- 

#  Peter  Bechtold  #  e-Mail peter@fns.gold.sub.org  # 
#     Adalbertstr.74, D-8000 Muenchen 40, Germany     #
# Telephone +49 89 271 8116 # Telefax +49 89 271 3774 #
From: tittelbach@skyfox.usask.ca
Subject: western
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 18:01:30 GMT


Einen wunderscho"nen Guten Morgen! Kann mir von Euch vielleicht jemand sagen,
wie jener beru"hmte Western "Spiel mir das Lied vom Tod" auf englisch heisst?
Er scheint hier, nur nebenbei, nicht ganz so beru"hmt zu sei, bisher konnte
mit meiner Beschreibung na"mlich keiner so richtig was anfangen.
Wie auch immer, ich wa"re dankbar fu"r Tips.
Gruss, Dietrich.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY)
Subject: Queen's visit to germany
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 01:05:00 GMT

Could someone throw something at our queen while she's over there?  Just
a tomato, rotten egg, something like that.  We in England so rarely get the
chance to show what we think of our royal family.

Laurence

Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: deb5@ellis.uchicago.edu (Daniel von Brighoff)
Subject: Re: Deutsch Comics ? (Commic book)
Summary:  hoch lebt Ralf Koenig! 
Reply-To: deb5@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 23:04:53 GMT

	i was terribly disappointed in German comics, especially after seeing
that even the _Basques_ had a thriving native comics industry with artwork
comparable to some belgian titles (not reading basque, i can't speak for the
texts).  that was until i saw Ralf Koenig!  although gays will find his
work especially interesting, it has appeal for everyone.  i've see one of 
his titles--Kondom des Grauens (auf english The Killer Condom?) 
translated in People Like Us bookstore in Chicago--it's probably his most
accessable, particularly to the Heteros.				
	the originals really helped my German--especially the cool slang.  the
pictures generally give enough context to puzzle it out.  i really looked 
for other stuff, but it paled next to the flemish and dutch material that
i could use my German to puzzle out!    
-- 
	Daniel "Da" von Brighoff (deb5@midway.uchicago.edu)  /\
	951 E. 54th Place				    /__\
	Chicago, IL  60637				   /____\
							  
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
From: biesel@javelin.sim.es.com (Heiner Biesel)
Subject: Re: Violence update 30.09.92 (re: Heiner Biesel)
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:43:55 GMT

tooka@train.EBay.Sun.COM (Tony Ooka, Jr.) writes:

>In article 12302@javelin.sim.es.com, biesel@javelin.sim.es.com (Heiner Biesel) writes:
>> weberwu@inf.fu-berlin.de (Debora Weber-Wulff) writes:
>> 
>> ....[ ]...
>> 
>> >In other news, the official party for the V2 rocket has been cancelled.
>> >But there will be an "inoffical" party, including talks by important
>> >people and "a talk on the tragic uses of the first V2's". Complain
>> >to your governmental officers! Other countries *must* protest this
>> >completely insensitive behavior of the German government!
>> 
>> Why?
>> 
>> It is commonplace in other countries to celebrate the Nth anniversary
>> of some significant weapon system, never mind the fact that it killed
>> many people. How, for example, can the US protest "...this completely
>> insensitive behavior..." when it went ot some trouble to find and employ
>> the technical people responsible for the V-2? The A-bomb explosion at
>> Alamagordo rates an anniversary, and a plaque, why not the V-2?
>> 
>> Regards,
>>        H. Biesel

>Yes but should American hypocrisy and insensitivity to the memory of the 
>victims be an excuse or justification for German celebration of the V2
>achievement? Also note: Germany has a far more gruesome legacy to leave
>behind (e.g. the death camps) and should be trying to distance itself from
>that past if it is to a trusted leader in the European Community. Yes...
>celebrating the V2 is Germany's right but is it sending a message to the
>world that German's have learned and really believe in peaceful solutions
>to for example the war-torn Balkans? I don't think so.

My response was not so much aimed at the right of Germany to celebrate
the A4, but rather at Deborah's plea that those of us living elsewhere
should petition our government to protest "...this completely insensitive
behavior...". The US, in particular, has little moral authority to do
so, given its utilization of the fruits of Peenemuende. Protests against
this celebration should arise in Germany, if at all. Righteous
indignation elsewhere, no matter how well founded, will be ignored, if
not resented by the Germans.

Regards,
       H. Biesel