HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: russell@kralizec.zeta.org.au (Russell Hoore)
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
Subject: Infocom Books
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:22:01 GMT
Organization: Sydney, Australia

Could one of the Infocom historians enlighten me as to the story
of Infocom books?  I found "Zork 3 - The Cavern of Doom" by S. Eric
Meretzky in a store a few years ago.  It's an interactive novel, allowing
you make decisions affecting the plot: for example, when you approach
a fork in the tunnel it says:
	Take the left-hand passage?  Go to page 33.
	Take the smooth passage?  Go to page 36.

It contains quite a few bits of the computerised Zork, including
the coal mine (with magic compressor), Krill, the Flatheads, the GUE, Grues
(pictures, too), FCD #3, the full text of the nitfol spell, and a dragon called
Leblong.(!)  The highlight for me was being cremated by Leo and Rocky, the two
robotic inhabitants of the Frobozz Magic Crematorium.  Pity I wasn't dead first.

The copyright of the book is around the same time as the release of Zork I.
So which is the real Zork?  Were there other books for the Enchanter series?
The book is obviously a childrens' book - why do so many adults enjoy the
computerised version?

Details: "Zork 3: The Cavern of Doom - An Infocom Book by S. Eric
Meretzky" Copyright Infocom Inc 1983.  Published by Puffin (England) and
Penguin (Aust, US, Canada, NZ).  ISBN 0 14 03.1757 0.  127 pages with
illustrations.  The back cover refers to the Zork Adventures as: Zork 1: The
Forces of Krill, Zork 2: The Malifestro Quest, Zork 3: The Cavern of Doom.

Russell
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
From: adam@owlnet.rice.edu (Adam Justin Thornton)
Subject: Re: Old Apple II Interactive Fiction
Organization: Milo's Meadow
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 04:18:26 GMT

In article <yjc-231192222345@b61539.student.cwru.edu> yjc@po.cwru.edu (Jerome Chan) writes:

>Since this is rec.games.int-fiction...
>Has anyone _solved_ Scott Adam's The Count?! I've been thinking about it
>for years now...

What do you want to know?  I _might_ still remember.

Adam
-- 
"And in the heartbreak years that lie ahead, |++| adam@rice.edu |++| Cthulhu
 Be true to yourself and the Grateful Dead." --Joan Baez  | 64,928 | fthagn!
"Very often, a common stone, thrown away and despised, is worth more than
 a cow." -- Paracelsus | If these were Rice's opinions I'd shoot myself.
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
From: glover@sgi.elec.uq.oz.au (Stuart Glover)
Subject: Trinity: Problems
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 02:43:29 GMT

Hi there,
         Thanks to all those who relpied to my last post.  I've come
quite a way since them but am still having problems.  Any help would
be greatly appreciated, although I would prefer minor spoilers to 
put me in the right direction.

I'll give a brief description of what I have done.

I have managed to control the sundial. I have manged to get the lizard,
milk, the honey have combined them to  get the emerald.  Now for the 
Questions.

1) What do I do now? All visible mushrooms have no doors on them, except
for the one that leads to arctic (where the lemmings are).

2) I can get the lemming but this means freeing the bird, so I am not sure 
if this is the right thing to do.

3) The book says something about the bird keeper.  Who is he and 
if he exists where is he??

4) What is the spade for??

5) Is the sculpture useful?

Any help with these Q's would be greatly appreciated, but I would prefer
minor spoilers.

Thanks in advance.

Stuart Glover

--

glover@s1.elec.uq.oz.au
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
From: awilliam@qucis.queensu.ca (Andrew Williams)
Subject: Re: Old Apple II Interactive Fiction
Organization: Computing & Information Science, Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:32:21 GMT

In article <1epsebINNb57@aludra.usc.edu> tehyang@aludra.usc.edu (Teh Kao Yang) writes:
>I'm wondering how many people out here remember these old Apple 2 classics(?)
>that I used to play. Of course none of them are really comparable to the
>Infocom games but I enjoyed them nonetheless. I think all these games are
>pre-King's Quest I (before 1985?). 
>
>Wizard and Princess							
Correct me if I'm wrong.. but I believe that Wizard and Princess was put
together by Roberta Williams (can we say.. SIERRA?). It was one of the
first GRAPHIC interactive fictions that I was aware of (second to 
Mystery House). Just my .02 worth.   
>-Teh Kao

Andrew Williams
ps. I still have some Scott Adams adventures on cassette tape!!
From: rees@csa.bu.edu (David Rees)
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
Subject: Old Adventure International (Scott Adam's games)
Date: 23 Nov 92 19:30:50 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: rees@csa


     Hi.  Does anyone out there have any of the old Scott Adam's adventure
games on cassette for the TI-994/a?  I know that is probably a pretty 
tall order, but if so, I'd like to buy them off of you.  These games were
rather simple (to say the least)  but they were pretty challenging.  I have
Savage Island I and II (which incidentally are two of the hardest IF games
I have ever played) and would like to see the rest (Pirate's adventure, 
Adventureland, Voodoo Castle, The Count, etc.)  I have the plug-in 
cartridge for the Texas Instruments that is required to play the game, and
just need the cassettes.  Thanks.

   Also, does anyone know the legal issues involved in making and 
       distributing a PD version of a copyrighted game?  i.e.  Coding
        Savage Island I and II in ALAN,for example, adding some new features,
        and then releasing it in the public domain?  How about
        if it was released as shareware?  Thanks.

-----Dave Rees   (rees@cs.bu.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
From: Dave Horlick <drh2@cornell.edu>
Subject: New "Infocom" Games: Just what the heck is going on?
X-Xxdate: Tue, 17 Nov 92 22: 25:32 GMT
Nntp-Posting-User: drh2@cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 22:22:28 GMT

Who knows anything about Return to Zork, Leather Goddesses of Phobos II:
the Pulsating Inconvenience from Planet X, or this Sorceror 201 thing?
Has anyone played these? Are they any good?

And is Mediagenic going to sell Shogun as part of a package?
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
From: James Petts <pettsj@visigoth.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Infocom Books
Organization: No Affiliation
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 12:23:31 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1



In article <1992Nov17.070751.24828@ils.nwu.edu> Dan Blum,
blum@medici.ils.nwu.edu writes:
>The only one I read was
>_Planetfall_, by Arthur Byron Cover, and I didn't think it was
>particularly funny - it really strained for effect.  The game was much
>funnier, IMHO.  There was a _Stationfall_ book, too (I think), some
>_Zork_ books, and possibly a few others.

There certainly was(is) a Zork book (by George Alec Effinger). I would
agree
with your diagnosis about the straining for effect. IMHO, there is vey 
little that can match the combined effect of dicovering a new room or 
cavern in an adventure, and reading a well-written description of it: you 
*really do* get a sense of discovery and achievement. That was why I 
started mourning when Infocom go gobbled up by Activision and went all 
graphical. "Return to Zork" is the latest, I think. Yuk! I *did* like the 
on-screen mapping with Beyond Zork, though.

James Petts

********************************************************************
* "We use the classical theory on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, *   
*  and the quantum theory on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays."   *
************************************** Wm. Bragg *******************
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction,rec.arts.int-fiction
From: neilg@fraser.sfu.ca (Neil K. Guy)
Subject: Re: A new idea for items in TADS
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:15:51 GMT

 Hmmmmm... There seems to be an increasing amount of overlap between
rec.arts.int-fiction and rec.games.int-fiction. Plus there's a lot of
sample code that people have come up with being posted, which is quite
handy if you happen to use TADS. Maybe we need a rec.arts.tads
newsgroup or something.

 Anyway, some of these suggested additions to TADS are quite
interesting. I've ended up creating tens of different new object
classes for my (probably permanently unfinished) TADS TA to do some of
the things people have been describing. For instance, I wanted a
fridge with a separate door to which you could stick fridge magnets.
(don't ask...) And a sideboard, which is a piece of furniture into
which you can put things, but which also has a surface that supports
more items. Normally TADS can't do this without help. I also had items
like sinks and bathtubs that handle things differently if they have an
isLiquid variable set. Not to mention being able to smell the air in
all locations, or having the game differentiate between floors and the
ground. (and no longer saying "In the ground" when you're sitting on
the floor.)

 Anyway, I guess it's pretty obvious why my game isn't ever going to
finished at this rate. But I digress. Do you think we could keep TA
writing discussions (like TADS coding etc.) to rec.arts.int-fiction
and keep game help discussions (how to get past the troll) to
rec.games.int-fiction? Please?

 - Neil K. (n_k_guy@sfu.ca)

 Followups to rec.arts.int-fiction only please. Natch.
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
From: Russell L. Bryan <rbryan@Mail.trincoll.edu>
Subject: Re: TADS efficeincy (eg Abe)
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A72DD1EE34013165@downes1-101.dynamic.trincoll.edu>
X-Xxdate: Mon, 16 Nov 92 03:32:14 GMT
Organization: Starving Writers of America (sole member)
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 03:29:31 GMT

In article <BxuAGw.ILt@news.cso.uiuc.edu> Alan Mead,
amead@s.psych.uiuc.edu writes:
>before each of the second and subsequent 'if's .  And I thought the C
>'switch' structure was particularly efficient in that regard and was
>wondering if TADS 2.0 will have it?

As a matter of fact, it does.
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
From: rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: New "Infocom" Games: Just what the heck is going on?
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 01:15:12 GMT

jmkaraka@eos.ncsu.edu (JOHN MARTIN KARAKASH) writes:
>|>>Has anyone played these? Are they any good?
>|>
>	Return to Zork - not played it..... yet
>	LGoP II        - sucks badly, avoid at all costs
>	Sorcerer 201   - very good (not infocom, though)
>		Also try Sorceror 101!

And Sorcery 301: Spring Break!  They're from Legend.
-- 
Racial Characteristics:  hard to tell a Canadian from an extremely boring
regular white person unless he's dressed to go outdoors.  Very little is known
of the Canadian country since it is rarely visited by anyone but the Queen and
illiterate sport fishermen. -- P.J. O'Rourke
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
From: librik@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David Librik)
Subject: Re: TADS efficeincy (eg Abe)
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 06:58:45 GMT

amead@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Alan Mead) writes:

>I was just looking at Dave Baggett's code for the actor Robert Abernathy
>and I it started me thinking.  Does anyone know how efficient the various
>TADS structures are?  For instance, in Abe's code there is a long section
>that moves him around according to 'loc' like this:

>if ( self.loc = 1 ) 
>  self.moveInto( room1 );
>if ( self.loc = 2 ) 
>  self.moveInto( room2 );
>...

>And not to criticize and while I haven't run into Abe, I thought
>that must take quite a few cycles to evaluate.

I guess my computer isn't slow enough to make evaluation of a bunch of
compiled "compare" and "jump" instructions noticeable.  But what IS slow
in TADS is resolving nouns: in a game with a bunch of different doors
scattered throughout it -- each with a full name like "north door", "jail
cell door", etc., but all accepting "door" as a synonym -- there is a really
perceptible one- or two-second pause when you type "examine door" -- even
though there's only one door in the room.  I'm guessing the parser is
descending the list of "door"s, looking for one in the current room.

This is TADS 1.2, by the way; the new version may have speeded this up.

- D

P.S. I like your rewritten version; those sorts of complex constructs are what
     make TADS so powerful.
From: tehyang@aludra.usc.edu (Teh Kao Yang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
Subject: Old Apple II Interactive Fiction
Date: 22 Nov 1992 22:07:07 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

I'm wondering how many people out here remember these old Apple 2 classics(?)
that I used to play. Of course none of them are really comparable to the
Infocom games but I enjoyed them nonetheless. I think all these games are
pre-King's Quest I (before 1985?). 

Wizard and Princess							
Cranston Manor (<- one of my favorites)
Sherwood Forest
Escape from Rungistan(?)
Alpine Encounter
Gruds in Space
Devil's Forge
Tass Times in Tonetown
Borrowed Time
Dark Crystal

I can't believe these are the only ones I can remember now... there were so
many, but I can't remember their names. There was a really good one where you
are sent to hell to defeat Hitler. One where you can change into different
superheros. There was the Scott Adams(?) superhero series. There was a classic
game that was based on the "Nine Little Indians" story. Can anyone remember
these or any others? Or do people generally consider these graphical adventure
games as worthless? 

-Teh Kao
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
From: rdippold@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: Old Apple II Interactive Fiction
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 04:25:24 GMT

tehyang@sal-sun21.usc.edu (Teh Kao Yang) writes:
>Yes I do remember Bilestoad! Great game! Real bloody and violent! Didn't 
>Datasoft do it? 

Well, they certainly screwed the author over.  He's posted here
(actually c.s.a2 and c.s.m) about it, but apparently he's making it
for the Mac.  Good game!
-- 
Man who falls in vat of molten optical glass makes spectacle of self.
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction,rec.arts.int-fiction
From: daroloso@math.uwaterloo.ca (Dani A. Roloson)
Subject: TADS 2.0 - Press Release
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:30:48 GMT



  High Energy Software is pleased to announce that version 2.0 of TADS
(the Text Adventure Development System) is now available!  Version 2.0
has many new system features, an improved debugger, and expanded
documentation.

New System Features:
  - An "undo" system allows players to take back moves - over a hundred
    moves can typically be undone!  Undo is transparent to your game.
  - A virtual memory subsystem gives TADS 2.0 almost unlimited capacity
    to run huge games, even on small machines.
  - Additional C-language syntax is now supported, including statements
    such as for, switch, do-while, goto, and operators such as ++ and +=.
  - The status line can be customized.
  - .GAM files are portable between systems without recompilation.

Improved Debugger:
  - A new user interface makes debugging easier, and keeps debugging
    displays separated from game displays.
  - You can set up expressions so that their current values are
    continuously displayed in a special window.
  - You can set a breakpoint at any line, simply by pointing at it.
  - You can set conditional breakpoints.
  - You can look at any source file in your game at any time.
  - The virtual memory system allows you to debug any game, no matter
    how big, even on small systems.

Expanded Documentation:
  - A new "Getting Started" chapter shows you how to write your own
    games, from design to implementation.
  - A new "Advanced Techniques" chapter has detailed, fully working
    examples of how to implement a variety of adventure game situations:
    obstacles, doors, actors, vehicles, and more.
  - The new system features are covered.
  - The new debugger is described.

TADS 2.0 is available immediately on MS-DOS and Macintosh systems.
Registered users can upgrade for $20 + $3 S/H (we've mailed announcements
to our users).  The upgrade package consists of the new software
(including the debugger), the new 240-page Author's Manual, plus the
source code for Deep Space Drifter.

High Energy Software now has a Bulletin Board System to help with
your support questions.  You can call the BBS at 415-493-2420 any
time; set your modem to 9600-N-8-1.  The BBS has several conferences
on topics related to interactive fiction and TADS, and libraries with
the latest TADS shareware distributions.  You don't need to be a
registered user of any our products to use the BBS.

We regret that TADS 2.0 for Atari ST, Amiga, NeXT, and other systems
is not available at this time, due to our limited resources.  However,
we plan to work with third parties to make TADS 2.0 available on these
and other systems in the future.  Please check our BBS for the latest
availability information.

The High Energy BBS is the best way of reaching us.  You can also reach
us through CompuServe (73737,417), GEnie (M.ROBERTS10), the Internet
(73737.417@compuserve.com), or US Mail (High Energy Software, PO Box
50422, Palo Alto, CA 94303).
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
From: protonen@daimi.aau.dk (Lars J|dal)
Subject: Re: What is TADS?
Organization: DAIMI: Computer Science Department, Aarhus University, Denmark
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 10:35:16 GMT

m_rheau@pavo.concordia.ca writes:

>There's been a lot of reference to TADS, but I'll be the first to
>admit I don't know what the hell it is (a prog. lang. especially 
>designed for writing text games?).  

Your guess is correct. TADS means The Text Adventure Development
System. Personally I find it very good.
The language comes with source code for a lengthy sample game. Playing
the game is fun and gives a good impression of WHAT you can do with TADS.
Looking at the source gives you a good impression of HOW you can do it
- the source is good commented and the whole style of the language makes
it fairly easy (ok - possible) to understand the important parts.
If you have a PC, a Mac, or an Atari ST you should give the language a
chance. Even if you decide not to use the language, playing the sample
game is worth giving a try.

And where can you get it from? I quote from Dave Baggett's description of
the Unnkulian Unventure games:

> Appendix A
> -----------
>
> Where to get TADS via FTP:
>
> TADS is available for the PC, Mac, and Atari ST, from the following sites:
>
>	msdos.archive.umich.edu: msdos/games/textadv/tads.zip
>	atari.archive.umich.edu: atari/games/tads/tads.lzh
>	mac.archive.umich.edu:   mac/games/games.utilities/tads1.04.cpt.hqx
>
> TADS is also shareware, and we strongly encourage you to register if
> you use it since we feel it is a powerful, innovative, and very inexpensive
> development system that deserves to be paid for.

... and I would add that although I wrote that the style of the language
makes it possible for the newcomer to understand a lot without the manual,
you NEED the manual if you want to program anything useful yourself.

(the original poster again)
>I would be grateful for any insightful comments/details/limitations
>that it has to offer.

As I said, you can get a good first-hand impression by looking at the
sources that comes with the game.

>A N  D    R        E                W
>                                    M                I        L    L  E N
>m_rheau@pavo.concordia.ca

PS: If you are interested in the aspects of designing/programming
    adventure games you should read rec.arts.int-fiction along with
    rec.games.int-fiction.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Lars J|dal                  | Q: What's the difference between a quantum |
| email: protonen@daimi.aau.dk|    mechanic and an auto mechanic?          |
|                             | A: A quantum mechanic can get his car into |
| University of Aarhus        |    the garage without opening the door.    |
| Denmark                     |                    -- David Kra            |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: bshields@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Bill Shields)
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
Subject: TADS ???
Date: 18 Nov 1992 20:01:55 GMT
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: tartarus.uwa.edu.au

Ok, I've read what I can here but where can I get a hold
of this 'TADS 2.0'???  If some kind soul could mail me
some info I would be most grateful.

Thanxks in advance
Billy Shields
bshields@tartarus.uwa.edu.au

Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction
From: James Petts <pettsj@visigoth.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Infocom Books
Organization: No Affiliation
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 08:39:14 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1



In article <10100@kralizec.zeta.org.au> Russell Hoore,
russell@kralizec.zeta.org.au writes:
>The copyright of the book is around the same time as the release of Zork
I.

:Zork: /zork/ n. The second of the great early experiments in computer
   fantasy gaming; see {ADVENT}.  Originally written on MIT-DM
   during the late 1970s, later distributed with BSD UNIX and
   commercialized as `The Zork Trilogy' by Infocom. 

The above is from the Jargon file. From the date given, you can see that 
the original Zork considerably predates the Infocom offerings.

James Petts

********************************************************************
* "We use the classical theory on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, *   
*  and the quantum theory on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays."   *
************************************** Wm. Bragg *******************
Newsgroups: rec.games.int-fiction