HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: s0558191@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Chris Belanger)
Subject: planning for people
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 16:10:44 GMT

Hi,
I just joined this and was disapointed to find no articles on it
so I figured I'd put in something and see what happens.
	My particular interest in planning relates to making 
housing more habitable for those who live in it. Basically, I'd like to 
find new ideas for housing people that gets a far from the horribly
impersonal urban renewal projects of the 60s
	For my upcoming BFA project, I'd like to use large scale planning and 
architecture to create spaces with which the people living in them 
can identify and truly use. It seems a very sad thing when wonderful
parks or other public spaces are designed with no thought to how the
eventuall users live and they end up completely un- or underused.
	If anyone has any thoughts on these types of issues, or 
knows of resources which might help me with my BFA, please let me know.
			Thanks
				chris
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
From: sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming)
Subject: Re: planning for people
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 02:11:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.004353.6907@uwm.edu> sod@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes:
>From article <1992Aug29.161044.26347@nic.umass.edu>, by s0558191@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Chris Belanger):

>> 	If anyone has any thoughts on these types of issues, or 
>> knows of resources which might help me with my BFA, please let me know.
>> 			Thanks

>Okay!  Having just spent the past week in New York City, I believe I can
>suggest an appropriate model of large scale planning working closely with the
>community.  The project is the Battery Park City ... 

>When I vistited it, it was filled with strollers (not the baby-mobile type),
>children romping, people sunbathing, people playing pick-up basketball, people
>sitting along the bulkhead and watching the world go by...  In short, it
>seems to be very successful -- personally, I was set to go find an 
>apartment nearby.

Sorry, gotta ask this, thanks to a book I just read. Were there any 
homeless people there? political fringe groups protesting or soliciting 
signatures for their petitions? The book is called ``Variations on a 
Theme Park'' and is edited by Michael Sorkin. It's a collection of
essays describing how most current urban developments (shopping malls, 
enclosed skyways, etc) are essentially privatizing urban space, 
sectioning off cities by economic and social group, and sacrificing
freedom of speach and assembly for things like ``security.'' Doesn't
offer any solutions, but it starts you thinking about issues you might
take for granted.

~ibo
--
the nonibo -ibo
M. Scott Ramming  
305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139
(617) 225-9887 [home]  266-0500 [office] 253-7942 [other office]
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
From: s0558191@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Chris Belanger)
Subject: Re: planning for people
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:54:08 GMT

I have been reading the postings expressing concern about
public areas becoming too private and excluding people that others
might consider "undesireable". 
Although this is a somewhat different angle on that. I was wondering 
what people thought about private v. public low income housing.
It has been my feeling that if people own what they live in, it 
does alot toward making them care about their home and neighborhoods
because they have a stake in it. I have noticed this even in my
own recent move from apartment to house. All of a sudden I want to 
do yard work and make the place look nice. Any thoughts on 
attached v. detached housing? thanks
		chris
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
From: lancer@emilio.WPI.EDU (Stephe Lewis Foskett)
Subject: Pedestrian Pockets (was Re: Transit villages)
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 21:06:11 GMT

>>>>> "Aaron" == Aaron Priven <fuzzface@cats.ucsc.edu> writes:
Aaron> Hi.  The Oakland local paper recently had an article on
Aaron> transit villages -- transit-centered high-density development.

I believe another name for these are "Pedestrian Pockets".  High-density,
small area villages centered around commuter-rail lines.  There was a
conference about them a few years ago and a book produced after called "The
Pedestrian Pocket Book"  It's on Princeton Press.

Anyone know more about these?  Were they built?  If so, were they
successful?  Please post more info!

.s.

--
- so spake lancer@wpi.wpi.edu -      - "so what?" asks Ministry: -
-      So what, its your own problem to learn to live with       -
-          Destroy us or make us slaves - We don't care          -
-         It's not our fault that we were born too late          -
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
From: dtasman@dante.nmsu.edu (Dan Tasman)
Subject: Job postings (was Re: URBAN SYSTEM MODELLING ...)
Organization: New Mexico State University
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 00:46:33 GMT

joef@mel.dbce.csiro.au (Joe Flood) writes:

> POST DOCTORAL RESEARCH FELLOW, URBAN SYSTEM MODELLING AND OPTIMISATION
> 
> CSIRO, HIGHETT, VICTORIA, AUSTRALIA, $A36K - $A46K + Superannuation

and so on ...

Anyhow, it would be nice if there were more job openings posted on here,  
particularly entry-level and step-up positions.  However, I don't know if  
reprinting job listings from APA JobMart would be permissable or not,  
especially considering that people pay a good deal of money ($20 annually) to  
subscribe.  Planning positions from newspapers would be nice as well, rare as  
they may seem.
 
--
   Dan Tasman                                       dtasman@dante.nmsu.edu
                                                     molson@rever.nmsu.edu
   -----------------------------------------------------------------------
   "I think that I shall never see a billboard lovely as a tree
    Indeed, unless the billboards fall, I'll never see a tree at all."
                                                                Ogden Nash
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
From: elesatz@diana.cair.du.edu (Eric LeSatz)
Subject: Re: planning for people
Organization: University of Denver
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 19:43:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug30.014338.7310@micor.ocunix.on.ca> ve3pak@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Alayne McGregor and Brett Delmage) writes:
>In article <1992Aug29.161044.26347@nic.umass.edu> s0558191@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Chris Belanger) writes:
>>	For my upcoming BFA project, I'd like to use large scale planning and 
>>architecture to create spaces with which the people living in them 
>>can identify and truly use. It seems a very sad thing when wonderful
>>parks or other public spaces are designed with no thought to how the
>>eventuall users live and they end up completely un- or underused.
>>	If anyone has any thoughts on these types of issues, or 
>>knows of resources which might help me with my BFA, please let me know.
>
>Have you read City by William Whyte?

As far as I know this is required reading for EVERY planning major. I
remember that in higher classes profs always talked about this book
like it was the "master plan".

Eric
From: ecixdy@igc.apc.org (Energy and Climate Information Exch)
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
Subject: Re: planning for people
Date: 30 Aug 92 15:31:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:1992Aug29.161044.26347@nic.umass:-1066974205:cdp:1665900002:000:958
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!ecixdy    Aug 30 08:31:00 1992



Some of the best literature on planning with people in mind comes
from Kevin Lynch.  See your university library for a catalog of
his works.  While you are on the subject of large scale planning
you might want to give some thought to avoiding the creation of
"urban heat islands" and "urban wind tunnels."  Heat islands are
caused by too much asphalt and concrete and not enough grass and
trees.  Wind tunnels are caused by too many tall buildings too
close together.

* -------------------------------------------------------------
* Dan Yurman              |  Internet:  ecixdy@igc.apc.org
* Climate Digest Editor   |    Bitnet:  ecixdy%igc.org@stanford
* Econet Energy & Climate |  MCI Mail:  364-1277
* Information Exchange    |       Map:  43N28 112W02 -7 GMT
* -------------------------------------------------------------
* Pony Express  >>>  PO Box 1569, Idaho Falls, Idaho 83403 USA
                                                                
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
From: sod@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Sean M O Donnell)
Subject: Re: planning for people
Originator: sod@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Reply-To: sod@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 00:43:53 GMT

From article <1992Aug29.161044.26347@nic.umass.edu>, by s0558191@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Chris Belanger):
> 	For my upcoming BFA project, I'd like to use large scale planning and 
> architecture to create spaces with which the people living in them 
> can identify and truly use. It seems a very sad thing when wonderful
> parks or other public spaces are designed with no thought to how the
> eventuall users live and they end up completely un- or underused.
> 	If anyone has any thoughts on these types of issues, or 
> knows of resources which might help me with my BFA, please let me know.
> 			Thanks





Okay!  Having just spent the past week in New York City, I believe I can
suggest an appropriate model of large scale planning working closely with the
community.  The project is the Battery Park City development which has 
been under construction according to various plans since the '60's, but the
most recent addition is the most relevant.  It's a riverfront park, called
Hudson River Park, I think and according to an article in last week's NY
Times the community effectively provided the program for it.  The constructed
park's attributes include active recreation areas -- handball and half-court
basketball as well a wonderful playground -- large areas of open lawn, winding trails
and a fountain.  While these features are not new to park design, they do represent
a departure from the archetypical Battery Park City public space -- passive recreation-dominated; very tight urban scale.

When I vistited it, it was filled with strollers (not the baby-mobile type),
children romping, people sunbathing, people playing pick-up basketball, people
sitting along the bulkhead and watching the world go by...  In short, it
seems to be very successful -- personally, I was set to go find an apartment nearby.

Sean

> 				chris
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
From: sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming)
Subject: Re: planning for people
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 06:31:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.005742.643@nmsu.edu> dtasman@dante.nmsu.edu 
(Dan Tasman) writes:

> Transportation planners are a different breed than other planning 
> specialists.
> 
> Instead of being concerned about aesthetic, land use and social 
> concerns, transportation planners have one goal in mind - to get 
> as many people from one end of the city to the other in as little 
> time as possible.  Often times, that philosophy runs contrary to 
> many planning concepts such as neotraditionalism.

Hold on. I don't know if that's completely fair to all transportaton
planners. I'll give you aesthetic, but I suspect that's mostly just a 
division of labor. As far as the other two points, a transpo planner 
I worked with at the St. Louis MPO (who is originally from Britain, 
which might also account for his different viewpoints) is a big
advocate of ``strategic land-use planning'' on a regional level, 
and is probably responsible for my interest in the complexities
in transportation and land-use interactions. And a lecturer here,
Fred Salvucci, was quick to point out in our Transit Management 
class that while he was president of the T's Board of Directors, 
local bus fares were never raised during general fare increases.
His reason: buses tend to be patronized most by lower income groups,
while middle and upper income groups may tend to prefer the subway.
These two men probably aren't typical transportation planners, but
I don't think the freeways-all-the-way types you portray are 
accurate either.

~ibo
--
the nonibo -ibo
M. Scott Ramming  
Cambridge MA 02139
From: joef@mel.dbce.csiro.au (Joe Flood)
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
Subject: URBAN SYSTEM MODELLING AND OPTIMISATION, $A36K - $A46K, AUSTRALIA
Keywords: optimisation, urban systems, modelling
Date: 2 Sep 92 07:06:07 GMT
Organization: CSIRO, Div. Building Constr. and Eng'ing, Melb., Australia

POST DOCTORAL RESEARCH FELLOW, URBAN SYSTEM MODELLING AND OPTIMISATION

CSIRO, HIGHETT, VICTORIA, AUSTRALIA, $A36K - $A46K + Superannuation

The Urban Studies for Productive Cities initiative of the Division of Building,
Construction and Engineering, is concerned with advancing the science of urban
systems to make Australian cities more productive, more livable, fairer and
more ecologically sustainable, and to reduce capital and operating costs.

We wish to appoint a post doctoral research fellow with up to 3 years post
doctoral experience to undertake research in the development of urban systems
and their simulation and optimisation using advanced techniques including
artificial intelligence.

A PhD in computer science, mathematics systems, engineering or urban studies is
essential with experience in mathematical modelling or mathematical
optimisation.  You will need the ability to initiate and carry out original
research and to work effectively in a team.  You will also need to have
experience in, or knowledge of, the development of commercial grade software
of the models and their documentation plus knowledge of the relevant
terminology and have effective oral and written communication skills.
Knowledge of design, planning, operation and modelling of land use/transport
systems and related infrastructure is essential.  Knowledge of computer
graphics, building construction systems, artificial intelligence techniques
such as expert systems, neural networks and fuzzy logic is an advantage.

The appointment is for a period of 3 years.  Superannuation benefits are
available.

Your application should be framed against the selection criteria, and should
state relevant personal particulars including details of qualifications and
experience.  For a copy of the selection criteria and duty statement contact
Ms H Smith on +61-3-252 6000 or by fax +61-3-252 6241.  For further information
on this position Dr John Brotchie can be contacted on +61-3-252-6025, Dr John
Roy on +61-3-252-6149, each by fax on +61-3-252-6249 or email via
Joe.Flood@dbce.csiro.au

Please send your application quoting BCE92/8 to:

The Chief, CSIRO Division of Building, Construction and Engineering,
P.O. Box 56, Highett, Victoria 3190, Australia.

Closing Date 11 September 1992.

CSIRO IS AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYER

-- 
|  Joe Flood                      Email Internet:    Joe.Flood@dbce.csiro.au  |
|                                 Phone: +61 3 252 6068  Fax: +61 3 252 6249  |
|  CSIRO,  DBCE,  Post Office Box 56,  Highett,  Victoria,  Australia   3190  |
|_____________________________________________________________________________|
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
From: sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming)
Subject: Re: planning for people
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 05:52:13 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.145408.27329@nic.umass.edu> s0558191@titan.ucc.umass.edu
 (Chris Belanger) writes:
>I was wondering 
>what people thought about private v. public low income housing.
>It has been my feeling that if people own what they live in, it 
>does a lot toward making them care about their home and neighborhoods
>because they have a stake in it. 

I'll agree with that.

>Any thoughts on 
>attached v. detached housing? thanks

First thing that comes to mind, being a transpo person, is that if 
the units are too detached, you get into really low density development
which limits your options as far as what modes can be used to serve
these people (ie transit becomes less cost effective). Of course I've
also seen/heard examples of high-rise projects that were miserable
failures because they were applied without regard to the surrounding
urban context (ex Pruitt-Igoe in St. Louis, which suffered from
racial discrimination as well). You might be able to do two- or
three-floor houses, with a family to a floor, and get some cohesiveness
within the unit (a neighborliness or extended family which is rare in 
urban settings and even more so in suburbs), while still maintaining all
transportation options.

And kind of returning to the exclusion issue, think there's any way 
you'd see people of (vastly) different income groups in the same
apartment/condo complex. Even if a landlord could price-discriminate
among tenants, would he or she have any incentive to provide the
same quality units and service to tenants who represent different
amounts of rent revenue? Maybe vouchers or tax credits for the
landlord might work, but that puts the government in the position
of administering a huge transfer program, which defeats the purpose
of private low-income housing as opposed to public housing.

~ibo
--
the nonibo -ibo
M. Scott Ramming  
Cambridge MA 02139
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
From: ve3pak@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Alayne McGregor and Brett Delmage)
Subject: Re: planning for people
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC., Orleans (Ont)
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 01:43:38 GMT

In article <1992Aug29.161044.26347@nic.umass.edu> s0558191@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Chris Belanger) writes:
>	For my upcoming BFA project, I'd like to use large scale planning and 
>architecture to create spaces with which the people living in them 
>can identify and truly use. It seems a very sad thing when wonderful
>parks or other public spaces are designed with no thought to how the
>eventuall users live and they end up completely un- or underused.
>	If anyone has any thoughts on these types of issues, or 
>knows of resources which might help me with my BFA, please let me know.

Have you read City by William Whyte?

Alayne McGregor
alayne@ve3pak.ocunix.on.ca
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
From: maclachlan@hg.uleth.ca
Subject: Re: Urban Speed Limits
Reply-To: maclachlan@hg.uleth.ca
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 06:32:28 GMT

In "built-up areas of Ontario and Alberta the default speed limit is
50 kms. Any municipality can set whatever limits it sees fit and 
override the default. School zones and playground zones are set at
30 km. Arterials in more suburban areas typically are at 60km though
they go to 70 or 80 if there is median separation. 

   Alberta highways run 110 for cars in daytime on one 4/6 lane
highway from Edmonton to Calgary.

   BTW this my first venture onto a NEWS Group instead of a MAIL list.
Frankly, I have not yet figured out the difference. Who runs this thing?
I teach an Intro to Planning course in a Geography Dept. at the Univer-
sity of Lethbridge.
Ian MacLachlan, MACLACHLAN@HG.ULETH.CA
/sig
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
From: dtasman@dante.nmsu.edu (Dan Tasman)
Subject: Re: planning for people
Organization: New Mexico State University
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 01:05:40 GMT

ecixdy@igc.apc.org (Energy and Climate Information Exch) writes:
> 
> 
> Some of the best literature on planning with people in mind comes
> from Kevin Lynch.  See your university library for a catalog of
> his works.  While you are on the subject of large scale planning
> you might want to give some thought to avoiding the creation of
> "urban heat islands" and "urban wind tunnels."  Heat islands are
> caused by too much asphalt and concrete and not enough grass and
> trees.  Wind tunnels are caused by too many tall buildings too
> close together.

There was a project to install large windbreaks as part of the Buffalo Place  
pedestrial mall project.  Buffalo's downtown is very linear, with a majority of  
its major tall structures along Main Street.  During Buffalo's cold winters,  
Main Street is one long icy wind tunnel.  The preservationist groups in Buffalo  
are extremly strong, and theit pressure put a stop to the project, along with  
many skywalks and remodeling projects.  In some ways, it's good that they put a  
halt to it.  People were meant to be OUTDOORS on the street in a downtown,  
whether it's a pleasant summer day or 10 below zero.

--
   Dan Tasman                                       dtasman@dante.nmsu.edu
                                                     molson@rever.nmsu.edu
   -----------------------------------------------------------------------
   "I think that I shall never see a billboard lovely as a tree
    Indeed, unless the billboards fall, I'll never see a tree at all."
                                                                Ogden Nash
From: karplus@ararat.ucsc.edu (Kevin Karplus)
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
Subject: Re: planning for people
Date: 2 Sep 92 05:56:18 GMT
Organization: UC Santa Cruz CIS/CE
NNTP-Posting-Host: ararat.ucsc.edu

Is the book people are referring to 
Author:        Whyte, William Hollingsworth.
Title:         City : an in-depth look at the people, the movement, and the
                 buildings that make a city live / by William H. Whyte. 1st ed. 
                 New York : Doubleday, 1988.
Description:   xii, 386 p. : ill. ; 27 cm.

or 

Author:        Whyte, William Hollingsworth.
Title:         City : rediscovering the center / William H. Whyte ; photos. by
                 the author. 1st Anchor Books ed. New York : Doubleday, 1990,
                 c1988.
Description:   xii, 386 p. : ill. ; 26 cm.

Or are these just different editions of the same book?
Our library has both in the catalog, and all the other UC libraries have only

Author:        Whyte, William Hollingsworth.
Title:         City : rediscovering the center / William H. Whyte ; photos. by
                 the author. 1st ed. New York : Doubleday, c1988.
Description:   xii, 386 p. : ill. ; 27 cm.

Kevin Karplus
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
From: sramming@athena.mit.edu (Scott '~ibo' Ramming)
Subject: Re: planning for people
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 02:02:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug30.194334.20492@mercury.cair.du.edu> 
  elesatz@diana.cair.du.edu (Eric LeSatz) writes:
>In article <1992Aug30.014338.7310@micor.ocunix.on.ca> 
  ve3pak@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Alayne McGregor and Brett Delmage) writes:

>>Have you read City by William Whyte?
>
>As far as I know this is required reading for EVERY planning major. I
>remember that in higher classes profs always talked about this book
>like it was the "master plan".

What? You have to be a planning major to read/post to this group?
A civil engineer with a minor in econ and an interest in urban
(passenger) transportation, who hasn't read City (yet) isn't good enough?

~ibo
--
the nonibo -ibo
M. Scott Ramming  
305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139
(617) 225-9887 [home]  266-0500 [office] 253-7942 [other office]