HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Erika_L_Blumberg@quickmail.cis.yale (Erika Blumberg)
Subject: re: AA baby
Followup-To: soc.culture.african.american
Organization: Public Macs, Academic Computing, Yale University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 02:40:12 GMT

Nice distorted oversimplification of Bakke.  He did not get refused
admission because he was Caucasian; he merely did not get into UC Davis Law
School, I believe it was, initally, because they had a specific amount of
slots set aside for minority students and he was not one.  I agree with the
original poster; NO ONE is kept out of college, or jobs, for that matter,
by affirmative action.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Racist/Sexist Role Models
Date: 11 Dec 92 11:25:47 GMT
Organization: University of Florida, Gainesville

In article <1992Dec8.233919.29775@fid.morgan.com> sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart) writes:

# There have been concerted efforts, spanning decades, to limit the
# education of Jewish students.  Why shouldn't there be programs to
# "deliberately reverse" that?

My understanding is that while Eastern European Jews were often denied
secular education, they were always allowed to study to be rabbis,
which was a fairly intellectual pursuit.  Therefore, the value of
education and the concept of how to get it was never lost in Jewish
culture.  Is this historically wrong?

Also, of course, not all American Jews are descended from Eastern
Europeans.  Isn't it also true that until Hitler came along (or maybe
Nietzsche) Jews in Western Europe led a relatively normal life?
Wasn't it Jews of Western European origin who "re-civilized" the
Eastern European Jews who started pouring through Ellis Island at the
end of the 19th century?

# There are concerted efforts, going on right now, to limit the
# education of Oriental students (e.g. Berkeley).  Why shouldn't that
# be stopped, much less reversed?

This is a prime example of the type of simplistic thinking I associate
with Libertarianism.  You make it sound as if an Oriental student who
doesn't get into Berkeley is doomed to a life of washing rich people's
dress shirts.

A student who doesn't make it into Berkeley can get into one of the
other UC schools or one of dozens of other schools that will give him
or her an education almost indistinguishable from that of Berkeley.

End of analogy.

# My parents were a target of it, too, and I never got any special
# treatment (nor do I want any).  If you think you can only succeed
# with special treatment, then you can't succeed.

Another silly claim.  I guess a jockey who needs help getting onto the
horse shouldn't be allowed to ride, eh?  Or even better, a person with
a broken leg should not be put in a cast, because "if you can't walk
without a cast, you can't walk".

David


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.discrimination
From: reneemac@acpy01.att.com (Renee McMillan (CXNIXPT1))
Subject: C. Isbell, Blak Panther, or others
Organization: AT&T IMS - Piscataway, NJ (USA)
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 13:19:14 GMT


Charles Isbell and Blak Panther have posted monthly calendars of
noteworthy Black history items to this news group in the past.  If
you gentlemen are reading this post, or anyone else for that matter,
could you provide me with some of the past month's history notes.
I'd like to review them in preparation for a black history month
celebration.

In particular, I need OURSTORY for the following months.


           March
           June
           July
           August
           September
           October
           November
           December


I'd appreciate it if each t if each month could be sent in a separate message
file.

Thanks ahead of time for the effort.


Renee

Send To:    att!hriso!devildog!uxrd17!reneemac
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: dem2@pyuxd.uucp (Me)
Subject: Re: Racism and AA
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 20:37:45 GMT

wdw@math3.sma.usna.navy.MIL (Wm. Douglas Withers) writes about
the football metaphor of AA:

>If you have read the posts
>by affirmative-action foes on this network you should realize that one of
>their main arguments is that there isn't a `White Team' or a `Black Team'
>at all.  (Believe me, if we were choosing up teams, there are plenty of
>white people I wouldn't want on mine.)  If you present this argument to
>white people, most of them will protest that they haven't been cheating
>at all.  A lot of them are even telling the truth.

If you had been reading this group over the past few years, you'd
realize that we've discussed these issues to death already (maybe s.c.a.a
needs a faql?). Anyway, the failure to identify with a team doesn't
negate the fact of acting as a team, ie. the defacto existence of a team.
And it only takes one member of the team to be caught cheating for the whole
team to be penalized (or one member to get away with cheating for the whole
team to benefit). So what if you yourself haven't cheated -- you could even
be sitting on the bench -- but you're still a part of the team. But I've
said it before and I'll say it again: the failure of whites to identify
as the "team" that they are continues to be a major stumbling block
to progress in race relations.
	Darryle
"I have often thought that if there had been a good rap group around in
those days, I might have chosen a career in music instead of politics."
	- Richard Nixon
"Didn't he ever hear of the 'Last Poets'?" -- me
From: dwelch@mpd.tandem.com (Dan Welch)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,soc.women
Subject: Re: "Reflections of an Affirmative Action Baby"
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:43:22 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.african.american
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tandem Computers (MPD) Austin, TX

In article <1992Dec11.164107.11996@cs.wm.edu> sunny@il.cs.wm.edu (John S. Egbo) writes:
>Asians tend to do
>well in fields that society stereotype them to be good at and bad in
>others.

Gee, how amazing that people so neatly fall into their roles.  I guess
that if we were able to flip all stereotypes around overnight, everything
would change, too.  Sheez.  See, there's this little idea called "cause
and effect" -- and you're clearly not getting it.

Daniel Welch
From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: LA disturbance re anti-Denny demonstration
Date: 16 Dec 1992 16:12:56 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

Check!
.
Am I the only one who noticed that Willie Williams pulled an
overkill on the corner of Florence and Normandie couple of nights
ago in LA?
.
People are apparently still hot under the collar over there.  The
demonstration for the four guys who beat Denny turned ugly when the
cops arrived and started to clamp down.  People said it was totally
unnecessary. Is this correct?
From: carl.camurca@travel.com (Carl Camurca) 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Amerika/Japan
Date: 10 Dec 92 19:19:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Travel Online / St. Louis Online - St. Louis, MO
Reply-To: carl.camurca@travel.com (Carl Camurca) 

MF>Anyone who's had the unfortunate experience of dealing with Japanese college
MF>students at work in their 'arubaito' will assure you this is not in any way
MF>unique to the US. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten the wrong amou
MF>of change (often as not not, too much rather than too little) while the
MF>sterling product of Japan's educational system laboriously rechecked the fig
MF>mentally before deciding, yes indeed, they DID charge me too much/too little
MF>had given me the wrong change, etc.

There was not a language problem? You know, it's harder to calculate,
when you have to translate the numbers first, calculate, then
re-translate.

MF> Add to that the resounding non-success i
MF>teaching English (most universities have English as one of their entrance
MF>tests, and as a result, most Japanese get AT LEAST 6 years of English, yet
MF>most who have lived there will assure you that the majority of Japanese cann
MF>carry on a conversation in English for more than a couple seconds) and there
MF>is no reason laud the Japanese system at the expense of our own.

ROTFLMAO! HOW long are you able to carry on a conversation in *any
foreign language, not to mention Japanese ?!?
Besides, the ability to speak English does not proof a certain standard
of education and/or intelligence (sic!).

MF>Mike

Carl.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * I'm not rude, I'm "attitudinally challenged"
From: HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: The Clinton Cabinet
Date: 11 Dec 1992 15:45:34 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1garirINNa99@tamsun.tamu.edu>,
achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin) writes:
>What do you bet that when President-elect Clinton gets through with
>making his Cabinet "look like America," there will be African-Americans
>and Hispanics, but no Asian-Americans in it?
.
.
.
Well...Asian Americans had better get busy and get noisy about that
scene, but supposedly folks have a problem about Asians so-called
running the world, and Americans in particular, ragged.  So I
wouldn't tiptoe.  I'd come out swinging and refute that mess.
So get with it.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: bc205cs@opie.bgsu.edu
Subject: Re: Advancing the discussion
Organization: Bowling Green State University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:24:13 GMT

	In order for the black race to advance, it is vital for our so-called
leaders and organizations to work together toward a common goal.  We must sit
these leaders down, and they must assess the situation and come up with a  
cause.  When I say cause, I mean: the one thing that is affecting black minds,
black lives, thus black futures.  It is my belief that the major cause affecting
blacks today is drugs.  Drugs in our communities have had a tremendous
impact in the lives of our people. They have turned our communities into war
zones, thus they have:
	
	1.  added to the black death toll
	2.  taken our minds off the value of an education 
	3.  caused a lot of major corporations and nice paying jobs to leave our
	    communities.  they have also scared a lot of jobs away from our
	    communities.
	4.  created young teenage mothers and fathers (result: our kids are
            being raised by kids and sense they don't know the value of an
            education, how can people expect them to teach this value to their
            kids.
	5.  turned our kids toward gangs and drugs---This is what is called a
	    poverty trap.  As you can see the cycle starts over again.
        6.  **the list is longer and more detailed I just listed a few to get
            my point across.

	Once this cause is recognized by our major political advocates and
organizations, then they can come up with many different strategies to attack
it.  It is important that we channel all of our energy and time at this cause;
it really breaks my heart to see Jesse Jackson focus so much time on Marge
Schott, since the end result is just going to be a couple more blacks in the
front office.  That's a cause not fighting for, because it has little impact on 
poor blacks (like affirmative action). Damn, I killed two birds with one stone
with this post.  
	I can sit here and give you my whole detailed plan ( I have one to) to 
solving our solution, but I won't.  

Chris Hill
BGSU
From: djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: The Clinton Cabinet
Date: 19 Dec 92 23:25:05 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Florida, Gainesville

In article <1992Dec16.233049.20470@cbnewse.cb.att.com> ronaldd@cbnewse.cb.att.com (ronald.h.davis) writes:

# In article <1992Dec16.031626.20046@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu>
# johnson@whitewater.chem.w isc.edu (Art Johnson) writes:
# >     As I recall, biracial people were classified by the Census
# >Bureau according to which race they listed first, e.g. a person
# >who said that s/he was "white/black" was classified as "white",
# >while a person who said s/he was "black/white" was classified as
# >"black".
#
# *very* wrong.  the census rules as i read them have conditions
# which, to some extent, base one's race upon the "proportion" of
# one's racial mix [which is, in turn, a function of the race of the
# parents].

I can't remember what the census forms looked like, but the standard
forms we get at work (supposedly for the government to keep
statistics) are something like this:

        White (not Hispanic)
        Black (not Hispanic)
        Hispanic
        American Indian or Aleut
        Asian or Pacific Islander
        Other

Since these are just check-offs, you don't have the choice of
specifying black/white vs white/black, and I've never heard that the
government has an algorithm for processing multiple checked boxes.  If
they do, I'll stop checking "other" and start checking them all.

Now if there are rules about how you decide which race you should
mark, they must be in the instructions for filling out the census
form, but I don't remember that either.  Did you actually see an
instruction that said, "If you have any non-white ancestors, you may
not check 'white'"?

# imho the rules, by and large, are concerned with maintaining white
# purity, thus, an asian or hispanic can eventually have scions who
# are categorized as "white". the situation with black people is
# different, however.  a person cannot be white if they have
# traceable black ancestors [which says a lot about what some white
# people *uniquely* think about black people apart from other races].

This has always been the American way, and it seems to me to be as
well accepted among blacks as among whites (as in the resentment of
blacks who try to "pass").  It's refreshing to run into people from
other countries who don't use this classification system.

# the think that is so ridiculous about this condition is that it
# would make [according to estimates that i have read] 20-25% of
# "white" people, "black".

Not only that, but it makes hash out of attempts to correlate
*genetic* factors with race in America, like the loonies who claim
that blacks are 15 points lower on IQ tests or that little flurry of
reports a couple of years ago on fast-twitch cells and slow-twitch
cells in athletes' muscles.

David
From: dale@dale.CAM.ORG (Dale Wharton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: NAFTA analysis--authors, resource people
Date: 19 Dec 92 14:19:34 GMT
Organization: private


         NAFTA analysis--authors, resource people
Date:    16 Dec 92 07:56 PST
Source:  Kai Mander <kmander@igc.apc.org>
         Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy

U.S. CITIZENS' ANALYSIS OF THE NORTH AMERICAN FREE TRADE AGREEMENT
Authors and resource people:

Environment
John Audley (coordinator)
Sierra Club
408 C Street NE
Washington, DC 20002
phone: (202) 675-6276

Alex Hittle
Friends of the Earth
218 D Street SE
Washington, DC 20003
phone: (202) 544-2600

Energy Trade
Cam Duncan
Greenpeace USA
1436 U Street NW
Washington, DC 20009
phone: (202) 462-1177

Agriculture
Nancy F. Danielson
National Farmers Union
600 Maryland Avenue SW
  Suite 202 West
Washington, DC 20024
phone: (202)554-1600

Karen Lehman (coordinator)
Mark Ritchie
Institute for Agriculture
  and Trade Policy
1313 5th Street SE, Suite 303
Minneapolis, MN 55414-1546
phone: (612) 379-5980

Leslie Nutly
United Food and Commercial
  Workers International Union
1775 K Street NW
Washington, DC 20006
phone: (202) 223-3111

Kathy Ozer
National Family Farm Coalition
110 Maryland Ave. NE, Suite 205
Washington, DC 20002
phone: (202) 543-5675

Labor
Mark Anderson
AFL-CIO
815 16th Street NW
Washington, DC 20006
phone: (202) 637-5178

Lance Compa
National Lawyers Guild
  Task Force on Free Trade
1511 K Street NW, #900
Washington, DC 20005
phone: (202) 393-0808

Pharis Harvey
International Labor Rights
  Education and Research Fund
100 Maryland Avenue NE
Box 74
Washington, DC 20002
phone: (202) 544-7198

John Howley
Service Employees
 International Union
1313 L Street NW
Washington, DC 20005
phone: (202) 898-3343

Mehrene Larudee
University of Massachusetts
Department of Economics
Thompson Hall
Amherst, MA 01003
phone: (413) 549-0116

Thea Lee (coordinator)
Economic Policy Institute
1730 Rhode Island Avenue NW
  Suite 200
Washington, DC 20036
phone: (202) 775-8810

Dave Ranney
University of Illinois
P.O. Box 4348 (M/C 348)
Chicago, IL 60680
phone: (312) 996-2126

Investment
John Cavanagh
Institute for Policy Studies
1601 Connecticut Ave. NW
Washington, DC 20009
phone: (202) 234-9382

Automotive Sector
Steve Beckman
UAW
1757 N Street NW
Washington, DC 20036
phone: (202) 828-8500

Rules of Origin
Mark Anderson (see Labor)

Steve Beckman (see Automotive)

Pharis Harvey (coordinator)
(see Labor)

Dispute Resolution
Lance Compa (see Labor)

Lori Wallach
Public Citizen
215 Pennsylvania Avenue SE
Washington, DC 20005
phone: (202) 546-4996

Preemption of State Law
Lance Compa (see Labor)

Intellectual Property
Beth Burrows (Coordinator)
Fair Trade Campaign
c/o Washington Biotechnology
  Action Council
20319 92nd Avenue West
Edmonds, WA 98020
phone: (206) 775-5383

Financial Services
Nikos Valence
Fair Trade Campaign
410 West 25th Street
New York, NY 10001
phone: (212) 627-2314

Enterprise for the Americas
Karen Hansen-Kuhn
Steve Hellinger
The Development GAP
1400 I Street NW, Suite 520
Washington, DC 20005
phone: (202) 898-1566
From: hahn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (David James Hahn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Emitt Tills : Question
Date: 16 Dec 1992 19:43:45 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: hahn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

Hey all,

I was wondering if someone could help me out with a question.....
I have an exam coming up (Wed.6:30pm), and was told that some questions
would be asked about Emitt Tills (he didn't spell it, so this may be
incorrect).  He said to know who he was, and the events leading up to
his death.  I've looked in numerous African American history books, and
can't even find the name mentioned.  So, if someone could PLEASE PLEASE 
help me with a short quick little summary, I'd be most thankfull!!

				David Hahn

				
-- 
David Hahn
hahn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
From: barnhart@ddsw1.mcs.com (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: Re: Who is Malcolm X: Clay Carson article
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 04:30:55 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.

HF.GTD@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gabrielle Daniels) wrote:
:In article <ByrADH.Bx8@ddsw1.mcs.com>,
:barnhart@ddsw1.mcs.com (Mr. Aaron Barnhart) writes back to comment
:on Clayborne Carson's piece, which I (Gabrielle Daniels) put on the
:board:
:>:
:>Etc.  Let me make sure I understand what you're saying: that on
:>the common ground of Garveyism Malcolm and the black power movement
:>forged a pact, after which time white involvement in SNCC was
:>counter-productive?
:.
:.
:Looks that way.  I don't think Malcolm specifically told the
:brothers and sisters..."these cats are superfluous, get rid of their
:asses."  I think that the SNCC folks felt that they did not need
:the white activists' money, time, effort, for something that was
:going to be the impetus of a black-led, black-run organization.
:.
:Then, you have to take into consideration Malcolm's death in early
:1965 as well, too.  Which would make folks doubly upset that an
:opportunity for unity between Malcolm's OAAU and SNCC was lost.

Actually, that *would* have been somethin to see.  Maybe it would
still be around and under female leadership by now!

From my view, it's hard to think about unity without a frank and
fair resolution to the conflict between men's and women's roles\
in both the c.r. and b.p. movements.

Aaron
From: q2tj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: What's wrong w/ Our Skin Color?
Date: 17 Dec 92 22:53:36 EST
Distribution: soc
Organization: Cornell University

In article <1992Dec15.175438.7918@crd.ge.com>,
mmrwlm@sn217.uca (Wanda L McCrae) writes: 
> In article 095838FKR@psuvm.psu.edu, FKR@psuvm.psu.edu () writes:
> +THe situation struck me as funny because one has to wonder was is the
> +problem some whites may have w/ AfAms.  I know prejudice is the answer here,
> +or some other explanation, but that's immaterial.  What's the problem w/ our
> +skin color?
> 
> Nothing.  It's some people's perceptions of our skin color that is wrong.
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
There's prejudice, but (as someone else alluded to earlier)
the bottom line is FEAR  FEAR  FEAR   FEAR  !!!!!!!!!!
Even if prejudice (at the conscious level) is completely eliminated,
the fear will remain for a long time.
Only extensive social contact between the different races
under a large variety of social settings over a long period
of time (and longer than we care to admit) will reduce this
problem.  And even then, various fears will persist.
(like fear of those biker dudes with stragly hair, and leather
vests and german helmuts.... ;-)

Steve Seidman
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Rank, Gender, and Homosexuality: Mombasa, (Wiener please read this)!
Date: 15 Dec 92 22:15:25 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)

In article <787@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, pmmst8+@pitt (Paul M Mweene) writes:
>How did I agree with you?

Wait a moment.  Are you saying the Swahili are not Africans?
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african.american:13055 alt.discrimination:5378
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: I'm Still Waiting
From: galan@netlink.cts.com (Greg Gross)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 01:22:19 PST
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

lkk@panix.com (Larry Kolodney) writes:

> In <1992Dec14.113247.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu
> 
> >> 
> >  I didn't say "More Brutal".  However give me some examples of slavery whic
> >  has been as brutal as U.S. slavery and has continued for the number of yea
> >  that slavery did in this nation.  
> >  America has still held on to its notion of blacks being inferior.
> 
> Brazil.  Blacks make up a much larger percentage of the population
> there than here, yet whites still dominate the power structures.
> 
> -- 
> larry kolodney:(lkk@panix.com) 
> _(*#&)#*&%)@(*^%_!*&%^!)*&#+!*&$+!?&%+!*&^_)*&#%)*&^%#+&
> The past is not dead, it's not even past.   - Wm. Faulkner


Same in Cuba. 
G.

--
Gregory Alan Gross      Welcome to life, where no good deed goes unpunished.
San Diego Union-Tribune         (619) 293-1270 (voice)
P.O. Box 191                    (619) 293-2333 (fax)
San Diego, CA 92112-4106        galan@netlink.cts.com (Internet)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.african.american:13081 alt.discrimination:5392