From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Documented Evidence
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 07:55:13 GMT

george_paap@email.sps.mot.com (George Paap) writes:

... delided ...

: In article <1993Jan1.094502.17764@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> bill nelson,
: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com writes:
: > : In fact, I'm glad that we don't have a "bible" which locks in
: > : words "the right way to do things" or the "proper" beliefs.  I
: > 
: > Ah, but some do. Ever heard of a BOS? Some people follow them 
: > very precisely - no variation allowed.
: Actually no, what is it and what do they believe?

It stands for "Book of Shadows". I am uncertain of the origin of
the term. Some feel that it was not invented by Gardner. What it
is is a text of dogma/history etc for the sect/group. Not all such
groups will have such a text - nor are the contents identical, or
even necessarily similar. Some groups follow the rituals/rules in
such a book very closely. Others use the text as a sourcebook.

: In article <1993Jan1.094502.17764@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> bill nelson,
: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com writes:
: > I just believe that a person should be able to document their
: > claims. If they state that they have a family "tradition" that
: > goes back generations, then they should be able to prove it.
: 
: What if it is an oral tradition?  Is not that also valid?
: (since it was the predominent means of history for most
: people, ie ROOTS was an oral history, therefore
: invalid [I'm making a general arguement here, not with
: Bill's opinions])

Normally, I would agree. However, our society has been fairly
literate for quite a few years. It would be highly unlikely
that someone did not write extensively about their religion
during the last century. Note that I am talking about a
religion, not mysticism or belief in spirits etc.

: As far as evidence and documents, all it takes is one
: family member to decide "this is EVIL" and throw it 
: all in the trash.  What you really want (speaking
: directly to Bill) is an *unbroken* family tradition
: which is documented reaching back to the 18th or 19th
: century.  It's 1992 and we [most of us on the net] still
: live in a highly Judeo-Christian society which regards our
: thoughts as EVIL (which, after my conversion, is translated
: THREAT), how likely is this really?

Nope. All I want is something that goes back to the earlier
parts of this century - prior to around 1950.  I would say,
if such traditions existed, that it would be highly likely
that such documentation would exist.

... delided ...

: My head is pounding, so I think its time I leave.
: The bottom line is if you (Bill) want evidence, you are
: probably going to have to go out and research it yourself.

I, and many others much better at research than I am, have
done so, for many years.

: You could probably even write a pretty authoritarian text
: (I wish I had the time, this lack of time really sucks), get
: it published, and make a bit of money.  How may scholars are
: out there looking at history from a pagan perspective?  My hope
: is that it is growing, and that one day we can read nice, dry,
: inoffensive academic articles on the historical archeological basis of
: our beliefs, but it will be while.  This is a movement in its infancy for
: most people (myself included).

Yep. Fortunately, people are starting to write valid stuff about
paganism and Witchcraft - not the bull that has been written over
the last 30 years by the "wish it were so" crowd.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.pagan