HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: c92andst@odalix.ida.liu.se (Andreas Stenmark)
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Organization: CIS Dept, Univ of Linkoping, Sweden
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 09:25:16 GMT

papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:

[some stuff deleted]

>>>the Gateway.  As we all know, the Gateway is a 486DX2 processor running
>>>at 66MHz and the A4000 is run off an 040 operating at 25MHz.  They're both
>>>incredibly fast machines and while the 4000 could be faster, it'll have to
>>>do.  The A4000 comes with 6 megs of RAM and the Gateway comes with 8.
>>
>>So, the Gateway's CPU should come close to the speed of the 33MHz 040, 
>>unless you need to do a lot of floating point.

>Give me a BREAK.  What total CRAP.  A 66MHZ 486DX is "close" to the
>speed of a 33MHZ 040, unless you have to do floating poing.   Come
>on...what colour is the sky in your world?

>If you want to talk about overall system performance, do so, but if
>you are talking about CPU speed, then this comparison is a bad joke.


In fact, his statement should be very much true. The '040 uses the same
"double clock" technique that exists in 486DX2's. So, to be fair,
the '040/25 should be compared with 486DX2/50 (and '040/33-486DX2/66).
But even then, the '040 is probably faster than the 486 (depending
on application). The 486 is not much more than an optimized 386 with
embedded FPU. The '040 on the other hand is quite an upgrade from '030.
In my opinion, the 680x0 series is much more modern than the Intel CPU's.

Anyway, it's quite difficult to compare such different CPU's fairly. And
it's probably much more relevant to compare overall system performance,
including other hardware, OS and apps. For instance, AmigaDOS - though it
may be considered simple and trivial, is much less hardware consuming
than Windows, OS/2, Win-NT, Unix etc. Unless you're running pure MS-DOS,
your OS is probably a bit slower than AmigaDOS.

Both systems do offer a lot of power and a lot of usability. Both systems
have tradeoffs. Whichever you choose is more a matter of personal need
or opinion, than this is better than that.
--

------///-------------------------------------------------------------------
     /// Andreas Stenmark - Computer Science at LiTH, Sweden
    ///  Internet: c92andst@und.ida.liu.se or stenmark@lysator.liu.se
\\ ///   - Don't bother - I'm already dead...
 \X//
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:25:15 GMT

In article <C0H2nt.BoE@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
writes:

>   The Amiga is a little younger than the Mac, but not much younger.  The
>Amiga is seven years old, the Mac is nine years old.  Seven years should be
>more than enough time for a system to have a highly polished GUI.  Especially
>when the Mac GUI was very highly polished by time it was two years old or
>so.  

Not to make any excuses, but something tells me the financial and technical
resources allocated to the development of the Mac OS are an order of
magnitude greater than that of the Amiga. And OS/2 is certainly a nice
replacement for DOS, but IBM has invested the equivalent of Commodore's
entire revenue for the last decade on the project.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Subject: Re: CBM does it again... 23 watt p.s. for A1200?!?
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 01:30:50 GMT

In article <C0KLo3.EC4@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
writes:

>   First, the A1200 and A600 power supplies should be a bit larger than the
>ones used with the A500 for the simple reason that the A1200 and A600 are
>designed to use an internal HD and the A500 wasn't.  Extra power is obviously
>needed to accomodate the HD...

Why? The power consumed by a 2.5" IDE drive isn't exactly prohibitive, as
thousands of laptops will attest. 

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: RISC Amiga?
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 05:13:28 GMT

In article <C0pALJ.8qF@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>>	The lifetime of the Motorola 68k line of chips DOES seem to be rather
>>limited.  The 68060 won't be out until at least a YEAR after the Pentium or
>>so, and the performance estimates for it aren't *stunning* for a hot new chip.
>>(last I heard, they were expecting about 70-80MIPS on it....) By 1994, they
>>might even be mediocre.
>
>Yes, and once the 68060 IS released (probably over a year from now and
>behind schedule), how long will it take for a stock Amiga to
>incorporate it.  They are selling PCs that can use the Pentium already.

Don't be such an ass.  Commodore gets info on the 060 early just like 
the Clone assemblers get info on the 586 early.  As for selling Amigas
that can use the 060, Commodore has been doing that since the A1000.

Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu




Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: sho@planets.risc.rockwell.com (Sho Kuwamoto)
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Reply-To: sho@risc.rockwell.com (Sho Kuwamoto)
Organization: Rockwell International Science Center, Thousand Oaks, Ca.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 17:41:34 GMT

In article <C0F5z7.A7A@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>In article <C0Et7p.GwA@starnine.com> mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:
>>I've often wished the mac had the "Open Parent" capability on it's desktop
>>that WB 2.0 added.
>
>   I've been using 2.0 for a LONG time (since right after it became available),
>and I noticed that feature only just now.  Shows how often I use it.

It's been a while since I've touched an Amiga.  What exactly
does "Open Parent" do?

If it does anything like what it sounds like (open a window
for the parent directory of a given WB window), the mac
(under system 7) has this capability as well, albeit in a
hard-to-find place.

Hold down the command key and click in the title of a Finder
window.  You will get a pop-up menu showing the entire
directory path up to root.  Select any directory, and a
window for that directory will open.

-Sho
--
sho@risc.rockwell.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
From: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Psigon Matrix....do you DOUBT us??)
Date: 7 Jan 93 15:30:20 -0600
Reply-To: martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

In article <C0H2uH.Bs1@news.iastate.edu>, barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>In article <C0Go2H.KKo@starnine.com> mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:
>>>In article <C0CJnH.4DL@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>>>
>>>Besides, Apple manages
>>>to sell three times as many Macintoshes as Commodore sells Amigas, every
>>>year 
>>
>>Is THAT all?  Only 3 times more?  That's pretty good...
>>
>>Used to more than that... they're losing ground!  :-)
>>
>>Way to go, C=!   Thanks for pointing that out, Mark!
>
>   Commodore is the one that's losing ground.  The Amiga used to outsell the
>Mac a few years ago.  Only about three years ago, the Amiga and Mac were just 
>about even in unit sales.  Now the Mac outsells the Amiga by three-to-one.
>I don't know why you're so happy about that.


Well Marc since ya seem to be in the know lets have the actual figures for
the last 4 years.  Apples Mac sales vs. CBM's Amiga sales.



>| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
>--------------------------------------------------------------------


I believe if you look up the REAL numbers you will be wrong.


Jim
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Screeeemmmmmin fast 4000/040..YEEEEEEHA!!          X-ASOCC (CBM Blew that one)
          Jim Martin   MATRIX -- If it's made, we sell it. Almost.
  -----(612) 656-9693--                         MARTIN@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
      We're almost done with the Cray module for the EmPlanT.  :) heh
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: Advocacy? What do you want for the Amiga?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:05:23 GMT

In article <1ikbncINN6cb@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> dstuve@storm.CS.ORST.EDU (David
Stuve) writes:
>It still seems to me that this is the true .advocacy stuff, and that
>the other BS (flame wars, mostly) deserves to be in a comp.sys.amiga.flames
>group.
>
>BTW, not one person responded with what they want to see on the Amiga.
>Sigh.

   Here is what I would like to see:
  
   A quality 'works' package developed and bundled in Amiga packages.  'Works'
packages have been developed before, but they have been junk.  Something needs
to be developed with a decent word processor (something like Final Copy II
with EPSF and DR2D graphic importing and CompuGraphic and PS Type 1 outline
font support added), a quality database, a quality drawing package, a quality
spreadsheet, and a quality communications package.  The whole package should be
well integrated and the software should work seemlessly together.

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer
is a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the AGA chipset." -- me
From: dleslie@phakt.usc.edu (David Leslie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: More BS from -MB-
Date: 4 Jan 1993 19:50:42 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

In article <1993Jan4.205449.17282@sol.UVic.CA> aramsey@ugly.UVic.CA (Aaron  Ramsey) writes:
>Unbelievable.
>Question Marc.....
> Which would you rather have... a really great looking car with no engine
> (gee... why can't I get any where???) or just some regular car with a ding 
> here and there, but runs like a dream?   8-)
[stuff deleted]

How would you feel about a car that looked really great, and had an engine?
Isn't that what we should be striving for? Why try and justify dings instead
of fix them?

 /  Amiga  ///    |  U.S.C. Trojans  | O Bar  | David Leslie        \
|         ///     |     Fight On!    | E O    |                      |
|     \\\///      |        --        | Meu    | dleslie@usc.edu      |
 \     \XX/ A1000 |     Go Kings!    | Lar!   |                     /
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Take THIS you amiga guy you!
From: nmspillers@ualr.edu
Date: 12 Jan 93 08:55:38 GMT
Organization: University of Arkansas at Little Rock

Hey,

Well, I'll give you guys one good reason why my pc clone is better than 
*any* amiga. . .

It runs Linux!  :-)

C'mon you guys, put those kibbitzin' skills to much better use and get in 
on the Linux for Amiga project.  Stop moaning about amiga unix and make it
happen yourselves!

I mean, jeepers, wouldntcha rather be coding? :-) 

Nate Spillers
Systems Programmer -- IA-SIS team
UALR Computing Services 
nmspillers@ualr.edu

"The earth is like a tiny grain of sand, only much, much heavier"
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ccb8m@onyx.cs.Virginia.EDU (Charles C. Bundy)
Subject: Re: CBM makes dealers look like liers
Organization: University of Virginia Computer Science Department
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:53:23 GMT

In article <93005.012733CTLCC@CUNYVM.BITNET> <CTLCC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>CBM has again made it's dealers look bad. Besides the fact that they never
>inform dealers on upcoming products and the dealers are the last to know
>anything that CBM does, they also give us shipping dates that they never stick
>too. CBM promiced us that we would have A1200s on Dec 28 1992. We were to
>recieve 24 machines. We never got them. We did get a shipment the next day of
>A2000s and 600s, but we only recieved 2 a1200s. Customers who we told about the
> shippment were extremely angry and hostile. We called our CBM rep and they tol
>d us that they would send 10 of the UPS red label. It never arrived. We finally
>recieved 18 today. Not UPS red like they said they would do.
>
>This and other things CBM do are the reasons why a majority of dealers don't
>carry Amiga machines. If CBM keeps up then eventually you will only be able to
>get them mail-order.

CBM made YOU look bad?  Sounds like you shot yourself in the foot by not 
following Lange's rule: "Underpromise and Overdeliver".  If a customer calls
you and DEMANDS to know the shipment date, tell them, with the cavaet that
you are not directly responsible for shipping, and add 3 working days to
the estimate. (Typical express delivery to cover yer ass)  

The customer only knows what you tell them, and you should have sense enough
to anticipate delays for the customer!  DON'T EVER VOLUNTEER "FACTS" THAT
YOU CANNOT GUARANTEE AND HAVE NO CONTROL OVER!

Charles C. Bundy IV
ccb8m@Virginia.edu

P.S. Yes Virginia, I spent two years as head of system support services and 
     distribution/shipping at Compuflo, Inc...

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: damiel@netcom.com (Paul Theodoropoulos)
Subject: Re: The Truth about Iowa.....
X-Spook-Fodder: hero heroin tree shrub bush birth life death FBI CIA NSA
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 20:11:53 GMT

In <1993Jan9.174539.8923@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> dtaylor@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Douglas Taylor) writes:

> I know that all of us are on the edge of our seats with regards to whether
>	Iowa is better than New York (by the way - it is; no traffic, lots
>	of corn-fed women, and it's really much closer to where I am going
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>	to get my Master's degree...).
> But, people, this has nothing to do with the Amiga -PLEASE take it elsewhere.


(taking bets as to when we'll see Ms. Lieberman's knee-jerk reaction to the
 above...i'll predict 10 jan 1993  01:13 GMT)

%^)



-- 
paul theodoropoulos     damiel@netcom.com     (hooools@well.sf.ca.us)

"Those who will trade essential liberty for promise of security will have
 neither" - Benjamin Franklin
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn)
Subject: Supermarket lines (was: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...)
Summary: for a complete change to something really irrelevant
Organization: Qld Dept Primary Industries
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 12:06:04 GMT

In article <73346@cup.portal.com> TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko) writes:
>
>Incidentally, does it burn you up that many people buy 11 items
>in the "10 items only" line at the supermarket?

Yes, it does!  The question is, what do you do about it?  Personally I just
stand there, in line behind them, and silently fume, while casting the
occasional evil glare at them.  But, you're probably the assertive type who
knows his rights and stands up for them (you _are_ American, aren't you?  :-)
You probably tell them in no uncertain terms that they're in the wrong line
and, if they don't move, you'll call the store manager.  Then again, I could
be wrong.

The real question is, how would -MB- behave?


>TomK@cup.portal.com
>Tom Krotchko


-- 
David Meiklejohn (davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au)
 - PC's, Unix, and networks by day, Amigas by night...
Currently residing in Mareeba, Far North Queensland, Australia
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jruppenthal@pbs.org (Mister Rogers)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 9 Jan 93 09:28:13 EST
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

In article <C0GuqI.LL8@starnine.com>, mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:
> In article <C0DJs0.3J4@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>>
>>Few Amiga users move to Macs, most move to clones when they abandon
>>ship.  The Mac GUI is constricting and inflexible.
> 
> I've gotten this impression too, and I think it says volumes about
> the Mac.
> 
> The mac satisfies beginners & novices, who don't expect much from
> computers.  I think that hackers who are into the mac have so much
> time & effort invested in learning how to get that box to do what
> they want (it ain't easy), they will never abandon it.
> At least the Amiga fanatics are such because of superior technology.
> 
> I think those that have left the Amiga market do not do so for
> lack-of-performance reasons, but because of frustrations with
> C=, fewer applications available, larger size of the IBM market...
6m> 
> But when they do so, they do not turn to Macs because those systems,
> comparatively are:
> 
> - slow
> - inflexible
> - restrictive
> - needlessly complicated
> - unreliable
> 
This is simply not true. I have a Macintosh and an Amiga A3000. I work with
Mac si's and Quadras at work. While I enjoy hacking on the Amiga as much as
the next guy, I would rather WORK with the Macs, that is, in the sense of
word processing, accounting, image manipulation, etc. The software that is
available for the Mac platform is, at this point anyway, miles ahead of
anything for the Amiga. Microsoft Word 5.1, Painter, Photoshop, Illustrator,
Quark, Premiere, the list is endless. How many programs like Managing Your
Money exist for the Amiga? Quicken? The Mac is a stable, mature platform that
is as easy to use as anything out there, but which can also be as challenging
as anything on the Amiga. "Needlessly (sic) complicated"? I think not. We have
over 300 Macs networked together with AppleTalk and Ethernet, and we rarely
experience any problems. Transferring data from one machine to the next is as
it should be - effortless and easy. 
Know that of which you speak...
From: jprad@faatcrl.faa.gov (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 7 Jan 1993 20:58:56 -0500
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Pomona, NJ
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: faatcrl.faa.gov

jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

>If you turned off Protected Mode, you were running 3.0, WITHOUT FastDisk.
>This explains why the machine crashed when you allegedly zeroed out the
>DOS kernel -- Windows was still trying to use DOS for disk access.

  Does using FastDisk redirect a LoadModule() call in Windows?  That
function relies on the MS-DOS function 4Bh, Code 00h parameter block.

  Also, what about the DOS3Call() function that is used to issue MS-DOS
21h interrupt function calls?

  Face it, Windows *needs* MS-DOS...

  -jack-
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Distribution: world
Date: 5 Jan 93 09:00:36 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <1993Jan4.154432.23110@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Gregory R Block (bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu) wrote:
>:
>: You see, though, that's the point.  There _IS_ a choice for personal
>: computers--they very rarely have a NEED for VM.
>:
>
>I disagree.  Look at the size of today's applications, and you will too.
>If you need to multitask several of them, you need VM.
>
>:
>: There are 64-megabyte Zorro III cards available.
>:
>
>Irrelevant.  Hard disk is cheaper than RAM, unless you can tell me where
>I can buy 340MB RAM for $600.

Frequent swapping is a sign that it is time to buy more memory.

>: My argument is that real-time-based personal computers haven't reached
>: the point where the architecture REQUIRES that VM exist.  I don't
>: think it will.  And as long as there are people developing real-time
>: operating systems, there will be operating systems that don't offer
>: real-time killers like VM.
>:
>
>There are real-time VM systems, so your notion about VM killing "real-time"
>is incorrect.

But most swapping/paging real time systems have a mechanism for locking
critical processes in memory at runtime.

--

Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		   merk!rmkhome!rkamiga!root

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:01:03 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.200817.1061@msi.com> bill@west.msi.com writes:
>Peter /\/\odin (e91petmo@odalix.ida.liu.se) wrote:
>: Well, I know this is nothing but your own opinion, but exactly WHAT is
>: Windows good at?... eating disks? ...oh, I know! Running Excel and MS Word!
>: I give up, NO WAY could MY Amiga do that (in its present set-up)!
>
>1) Device Independant Graphics

That's coming soon enough, and there are several different methods now
which allow for different video boards and monitors.

>2) Device Independant Sound (including the PC speaker)

The DSP board from C= should address this in some manner...

>3) Device Independant Printing

We've had that for several years now.

>4) Running Lotus 1-2-3 and Lotus Ami Pro (a spreadsheet and WP)

Oooh, don't get me excited.  

>5) Running a lot of other lot of other software at various video
>resolutions (1024x768, 1280x1024, 800x600, 640x480) at various color
>depths (24bit, 16bit, 8bit) by virtue of point #1 (DIG).

>NO WAY could YOUR Amiga do that (in its present setup)!

I happen to run quite a bit of software at various video resolutions on
my A4000.  The telnet session I'm using for reading news is on a 2 color
640x400 screen.  My Workbench is a 912x614 64 color screen.  ImageFX is
using a 640x454 16 color toolbox screen, a 320x100 256 color palette 
screen, a 720x455 256 color preview screen, and a 640x512 HAM8 screen
for rendering.  The toolbox, palette, and preview screens are all at
differing horizontal positions and appear to be a single screen.

There is no way your Clone could do what I'm doing now on my A4000...

>+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+
>| Bill Poitras    | Molecular Simulations Inc.    | Tel (408)522-9229       |
>| (bill)          | Sunnyvale, CA USA             |                         | 
>|                 | FAX (408)732-0831             | bill@west.msi.com       |
>+-----------------+-------------------------------+-------------------------+

Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@ucs.usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: Does reading this group make you depressed? The story of a victim.
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern La., Lafayette
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 06:48:52 GMT

In article <jcook.0n5p@cryo.rain.com> jcook@cryo.rain.com (James Cook) writes:
>
>In <jm39s70.06sq@sycom.mi.org>, jm39s70@sycom.mi.org (Jim Mallory) writes:
>> 
>> >I have always wondered where all those 68k-chips go as Apple and
>> >Commodore and all those laser printers can't be the only ones using
>> >68k as 68k-series sells a lot more than those combined. Anyone have
>> >any idea (excluding MB)?
>> >
>> 
>> Well Wellfleet Routers use 68020's and 030's in their Communications Engine.  
>> And they use 68040's in their Routing Engines.
>> 
>A great number of industrial control systems (programmable logic
>controllers, etc.) also use the Motorola 680x0 series...

recent PC Computing suggests that 68K-family processors makes up 
12% of 'business', whatever that means.

>    _  James Cook, PE - Electrical and Control Systems Engineer 
> _ //                    jcook@cryo.rain.com                     
-- 
Dan Stephenson   das9674@usl.edu 
"Even inferior PC demos seem to require more RAM than demos for the Amiga 500"
                                                                -John Bickers
"You're probably right.  The Amiga OWNS the demo market." -Jerry Shekhel