HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: faustus@ygdrasil.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Wayne A. Christopher)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: Who is H. Ross Perot? - The Perot Amendment
Date: 14 Apr 1992 19:00:49 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: ygdrasil.cs.berkeley.edu

The major reason that I would like to see Perot elected is that if he
wins, he won't owe a bit to either the major parties or to the special
interests.  He will have much more freedom than either Bush or Clinton
would to implement the policies he feels are right.

Note that this is not the same thing as saying that he won't be
accountable.  If he is elected, he will be accountable to the people
who voted for him, and nobody else.  Of course, in order to get
things done he will have to have the cooperation of Congress, but
since he is running as an independent, there will be much less
incentive for party members to oppose him because he's from the "other
side".

Maybe everybody will oppose him because he has no built-in allies, but
if he wins the election then that will provide such a popular mandate
that I doubt many Congresspeople will oppose him for the stupid,
partisan reasons that nothing is getting done now.  Besides, a
relatively large percentage of Congress will be new next year anyway,
so maybe we can start with a spirit of cooperation for a change.

Would this be giving too much power to one man, who has shown a
propensity for autocratic rule?  I don't think so.  He has said
numerous times, "You are the owners of this country, not the
politicians".  He was the owner of EDS and ran it the way he wanted,
and I expect that he would run this country the way its owners want it
run, instead of the way the party hacks and the PAC's want it run.

	Wayne
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael Thomas)
Subject: Re: Libertarianism: The Great Satan or NOT!
Reply-To: mike@gordian.com (Michael Thomas)
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 17:08:17 GMT

In article <visser.702697009@convex.convex.com>, visser@convex.com (Lance Visser) writes:
|> 	When you support overturning such laws, it hardly matters what
|> a particular person thinks about segregation or discrimination because
|> you are re-enabling and legitimizing that behavior.  The goal does not
|> matter, its the inevitable and terrible consequenses do matter.

   Tell us, does the supporting 1st amendment imply support for the goals
of every form of speech, bigoted or otherwise? Does support for the 2nd
amendment imply support for murdering people with firearms? Does support
for free speech legitimize the behavior of bigotry? 
   By your argument, if the 1st amendment were overturned, it would hardly
matter what a particular person thinks about free speech because you are
re-enabling and legitimizing that behavior [of bigoted and hateful speech].
   Your package deal of if we allow people choice, they will necessarily
behave badly is not very compelling. On the other hand, allowing government
"choice" does seem to have a pretty good track record of institutionalizing
mass slaugther -- all in the name of the "public good". 
-- 
		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: baker@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Andrew Baker)
Subject: Re: ACLU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 02:14:52 GMT

In article <rqo3nINN6sl@agate.berkeley.edu> mitja@hera.Berkeley.EDU (Mitja Baumhackl) writes:
[Pro-ACLU,  anti-WSJ arguments omitted]

>Or do you believe that "All people are created equal but some are more
>equal than others"???

No, I don't believe that "all people are created equal"; the statement
is empirically false.  And regardless of how people were created, they
sure don't behave equally, so I don't see any reason to treat them
equally.





Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:18019 alt.politics.homosexuality:2056 soc.motss:20145
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.homosexuality,soc.motss
Subject: Re: Straight Child molesters?
Date: 13 Apr 92 14:23:25 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com

djk@Nitro.CtEdge.COM:
> barry@netcom.com (Kenn Barry) writes [to djk]:
>> 	Keep up the good work.
>
> I have every intention of doing so. :-)

FABULOUS!  all we've seen around here is your larger than life asshole.
 i must say that i've seen better looking assholes before, but
GIRLFRIEND, what i wouldn't give to butter your tight buttocks!

now let's see, should we use margarine for fewer calories?  nahhh,
we'll be burning off those calories shortly.  the squeezable's always
laughable -- i get target practice first, and it always lubes so much
more efficiently than the butter knife.  then there's the whipped
brands, but they tend to break down...

oh, decisions...decisions...

-- 
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
Queer Without A Cause!
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:18331 alt.society.civil-liberty:3478
From: steinar@faust.solan.unit.no (Cindy Kandolf)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.society.civil-liberty
Subject: Re: Smart highways near  (was Re: What keeps me from being Lib.)
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:11:35 GMT
	<1992Apr13.103910.924@desire.wright.edu>
Organization: Flodnak, Inc., Trondheim, Norway

The person who prefers to identify himself as just "Brett" writes:
>        Speaking of toll roads, AT&T and Lockheed announced that they will
>jointly construct the world's first "smart highway" with computerized toll
>booths that automatically debit your monthly account.

We already have that in Trondheim.  You have a small chunk of plastic 
fastened to the windshield of your car.  The plastic contains a tiny
transmitter that sends out a very weak signal identifying your car.
At the toll booths, a receiver sends the information to the computer
and the computer automatically deducts the appropriate charge from
your account.  It's been in service since October.

Okay, it's not a "highway", but it is a system of toll booths.  The toll
is for driving into downtown, and is to be used for new roads and to
pay the debt on a few new roads already built or under construction.
If you don't want to have the thing in your car, or don't live in 
Trondheim but pass through now and then, you pay a coin into an automat.
(If you don't want to do either, your car is automatically photographed
and you are sent your ticket in the mail.)  There are only two manned
toll booths, one on the main road coming from the south and the other
on the main road coming from the north.

This thing AT&T and Lockheed are talking about may be the first one
owned by a private corporation, but the idea is already working in
practice.

-Cindy Kandolf
 cindy@solan.unit.no
 Trondheim, Norway
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:18091 soc.culture.african.american:4562
From: peercy@crhc.uiuc.edu (Mike Peercy)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Social Spending Constitutional?
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:58:02 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
NNTP-Posting-Host: dopey.crhc.uiuc.edu

dc4l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Dean Calloway) writes:

| Excerpts From Captions of netnews.soc.culture.african.american:
| 12-Apr-92  Re: Social Spending Constit..  Robert Barton@agora.uucp (616)    
| >  Whether it "fits" or not is irrelevant, since Congress is not given power
| >in those specific areas.

| But it doesn't explicitly prohibit this.  "General welfare" is a broad
| term open to interpretation.

Not in the view of the founders.

    Some, who have not denied the necessity of the power of taxation,
    have grounded a very fierce attack against the Constitution, on
    the language in which it is defined.  It has been urged and echoed,
    that the power ``to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and
    excises, to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and
    general welfare of the United States,'' [Article I, Section 8, of
    the Constitution of the United States] amounts to an unlimited
    commission to exercise every power which may be alleged to be
    necessary for the common defense or general welfare....  Had no
    other enumeration or definition of the powers of the Congress been
    found in the Constitution, than the general expressions just cited,
    the authors of the objection might have had some color for it....
    But what color can the objection have, when a specification of the
    objects alluded to by these general terms immediately follows, and
    is not even separated by a longer pause than a semicolon?...  For
    what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted,
    if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding
    general power?

                                James Madison
                                Federalist Paper No. 41

Note that Madison agrees with his opponents that the federal government
does not have powers beyond those listed.  What is at issue is whether this
is clear in the language.  In hindsight, it isn't, and Madison should have
heeded the objections.

Mike Peercy
peercy@crhc.uiuc.edu
From: jafoust@cco.caltech.edu (Jeffrey Alan Foust)
Subject: Re: Ozone problem burns Politically Correct
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 23:40:38 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.211056.21928@anomaly.sbs.com> mpd@anomaly.sbs.com (Michael P. Deignan) writes:
>john@anasaz (John Moore) writes:
>
>>Guess what, wise guy, it IS over the northern hemisphere also. Before you
>>react in such a knee-jerk manner, why don't you learn something about the
>>issue?
>
>Considering that "they" have been "measuring" ozone levels for "40 years",
>don't you find it strange that this "huge hole" suddenly appeared over
>the Northern Hemisphere?

Well, it's not a "hole" in the sense that there's no ozone there, it's just an
area where ozone concentrations are below normal.  Much of it may have to do
with chemicals released from the eruption of Mount Pinatubo in the Philippines
last June.

>>Just because "they" were wrong about the new ice age coming, and the
>>evidence for global warming is weak, does not mean that "they" are wrong
>>about the Ozone hole.
>
>Just because there is a finite possibility for me getting struck by a bus as I 
>cross the street means that I should never leave my house?

No, it means that you should look both ways before crossing the street. It also
means that ozone depletion is something that needs to be carefully monitored
for years to come, to determine the exact nature of its depletion.

>>Global warming is, to some extent, another in
>>that it is likely that some warming will occur as a result of man's
>>activity.
>
>Yeah, until you ask a global-warming advocate why the frost line in the
>United States has been moving progressively south.

Global warming does not necessarily imply that every point on the planet will
get warmer.  The net average increase in the Earth's temperature will cause
shifts in weather patterns.
Would you care to provide a reference for that statement about the frost line,
preferably from a refereed scientific journal?

-- 
Jeff Foust                        Junior, Geophysics/Planetary Science, Caltech
jafoust@cco.caltech.edu   	        	    jeff@seismo.gps.caltech.edu
"..any DEA agent or drug dealer can tell you that 1 pound equals 2.2 kilograms."
                       L.A. Times, page E1, 8 April 1992                  
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Polling Fraud?
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 21:41:46 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.201855.8190@kpc.com> emmett@kpc.com (Emmett Kilgariff) writes:
>	I didn't mean vote fraud. I meant fraud involved in the many
>Polls taken by Harris and others, that tell us before the election,
>who is going to win.

Do you have any examples of the "many" instances of polling fraud?
-- 
Ted Frank          + "He wanted to be the car rather than the thimble or the
1307 E 60 St, #109 +  hat."  -- District attorney explaining Marc Cienkowski's
U o' C Law Skool   +  murder with bow and arrow of Michael Klucznik in
Chi, IL 60637      +  Doylestown Borough, PA over a game of Monopoly.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:18014 soc.culture.jewish:7906
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Ross Perot
Date: 13 Apr 92 14:06:09 GMT
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Apr13.105704.12741@gibdo.engr.washington.edu> bobk@gibdo.engr.washington.edu (Bob) writes:
>  EDS has had a bad reputation among computer professionals for a
>  long time.  In many ways, EDS is stricter than even the Eisenhower
>  administration.  Jews have been fired for refusing to shave off 
>  their beards.  

Does anyone have documentation/additional information about this?
-- 
Ted Frank          + "He wanted to be the car rather than the thimble or the
1307 E 60 St, #109 +  hat."  -- District attorney explaining Marc Cienkowski's
U o' C Law Skool   +  murder with bow and arrow of Michael Klucznik in
Chi, IL 60637      +  Doylestown Borough, PA over a game of Monopoly.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:17781 ca.politics:3410 ba.politics:2627 alt.politics.homosexuality:1978 soc.motss:19966
From: barry@netcom.com (Kenn Barry)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics,ba.politics,alt.politics.homosexuality,soc.motss
Subject: Re: Straight Child molesters?
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:27:37 GMT
Organization: QQQCLC

In article <XcLViB3w164w@Nitro.CtEdge.COM> djk@Nitro.CtEdge.COM writes:
>Why are antagonistic points of view always reported as 'stupid'?

	Dan, Dan, Dan... you just don't get it. It isn't your
point of view, it's you. Any opinion can be rationalized to
plausibility by a sufficiently clever debater. Similarly, any
point of view can be rendered ludicrous, hateful and stupid
when the person making the case for it is ludicrous, hateful
and stupid.

	Clayton's problem is that he's an intelligent, educated
person with a neurotic obsession; but yours is that both your
intelligence and humanity quotients could be bettered by a musk
ox. You're a goddam fifth column, Karnes; reading your articles
could convince the typical gay-basher something's wrong with
his attitude, just by illustrating what lame bozos this point
of view attracts.

	Keep up the good work.

						Kayembee
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.guns,misc.entrepreneurs,alt.individualism
From: hays@ssd.intel.com (Kirk Hays)
Subject: Re: Dumb, Sheltered College Puke( wasRe: Perot hang'in from a willow tree)
Followup-To: alt.drugs
Keywords: WRONG NEWS GROUPS....
Organization: Intel Supercomputer Systems Division
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 15:54:22 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.135722.14824@athena.mit.edu>, sike@athena.mit.edu (Michael G Sheldon) writes:
|> In article <1992Apr3.223541.2704@athena.mit.edu>, sybok@m4-035-4.MIT.EDU (The Terminator) writes:
|> |> ...  Drugs should be legalized.  The illegality of drugs
|> |> creates crime, not the drugs.
|> 
|> Then murder should be legalized?  By your reasoning, the illegality of murder
|> creates crime, not the murder.
|> 
|> --Michael G. Sheldon

Don't be such a bonehead.  Drug crimes are victimless, as all participants
agree to the action performed.

Murder, on the other hand, has at least one unwilling participant.

[When I say "drug crime", I don't mean the muggings, burgleries, and other
crimes caused by the illegality of the drug trade, to forstall another
bonehead remark on your part.]

followups to alt.drugs.

-- 
Kirk Hays - NRA Life.
"You are getting hung up unnecessarily by the use of the words (and
their associated meanings).  What you should be doing is _ignoring_
the actual words...the words themselves are completely unimportant."
--brian@coombs.anu.edu.au
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:17859 alt.activism:7565 alt.news-media:209
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Straight Child molesters?
Followup-To: alt.flame
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst, MA
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 18:29:18 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.063022.10838@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>What's especially weird about Karnes, I think, is that he,
>of all people, should use the phrase "hate mail" of
>*anyone*, after all the hate and stupidity he has barfed up
>in soc.motss and elsewhere from his defective.  Similarly
>"whining." One does have to wonder how such a person comes
>to hold such completely idiotic views.

The answer is that he does not; he's simply jerking our collective
chains.  He's rather meek and timid in e-mail, and simply thinks it's
uproarious to stir up anger amongst the queers a little bit.  Reminds
me of that Picard person.

In any case, he's indubitably not worth the effort it takes to enter
the followup-command on your keyboard.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Someone here suggested blue square badges for
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  straights.  Maybe we should try mauve
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  heptagons?" - Damian Cugley, on soc.bi
From: peercy@crhc.uiuc.edu (Mike Peercy)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: more info on Perot: 1st article of 2
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:31:34 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: dopey.crhc.uiuc.edu

<SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:

| Well, I'm sure that money has been saved, but one questions how it has been
| saved.  All following figures & quotes are from America: What Went Wrong?
| by Barlett and Steele.  In 1978, before deregulation, the price of a round
| trip ticket from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh was $86.  Today, it is $260.

First.  Multiply your 1978 dollars by 2 before comparing to today's....

A ticket from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh was intrastate and therefore
not under CAB regulation.  However, interstate flights were generally
overpriced, giving the airlines not only a healthy lining in their
pockets, but the ability to have very low prices on unregulated routes.

| A round trip ticket from NYC to Washington DC cost $38.  Today, it costs
| $142.  If gasoline prices had risen at the same rate, a gallon of gas
| would now cost $2.33.  This is savings?

I think you should compare the NY-DC plane price with the train, since that
would seem to be the preferred mode of transport.  Has the Amtrak price
risen since 1978, allowing the airlines to better pass along their cost?
$76 sounds awful cheap to deal with National and Kennedy airports--such
a low price might have been subsidized by other runs.

Besides.  Think about it.  You are a CAB regulator who essentially sets
rates.  You live in Washington.  Most of the industry leaders you speak
to live in New York.  What rate are you most likely to make rediculously
low?

| In 1978, the top ten airlines
| accounted for 88% of the air mileage flown in the United States.  Today,
| they account for 94%.  This is healthy competition?

There are only 3 major auto makers in the US.  (Perhaps there should be
only 2.)  What makes you think that 5 major, healthy airlines isn't the
optimum number for the market?

| In 1990, the worst
| financial year in American aviation history, airline losses mounted to
| 3.9 billion dollars.  Since deregulation, Trans-World, Pan-American,
| Eastern, Midway, Continental, America West and Braniff airlines have
| declared bankruptcy.  Braniff has done so 3 times now.  In 1978, the average
| age for our airlines planes was 7.56 years.  Today, it is 13.5 years.
| In comparison, the average age of European and Asian planes is 10.4
| and 8.7 years respectively.

The US was significantly earlier than the others in developing a huge
airline industry.  In 1900, you could have given a similar stat about
rail, engines, and rolling stock.

Mike Peercy
peercy@crhc.uiuc.edu
From: emmett@kpc.com (Emmett Kilgariff)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Detroit, get a clue!
Keywords: s**t-box, trade deficit, bad design
Date: 8 Apr 92 17:15:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: kpc.1992Apr8.171502.12152
Distribution: usa
Organization: Kubota Pacific Computer Corporation, Santa Clara, CA

In article <1992Apr7.141053.1547@samba.oit.unc.edu> Chuck.Lavazzi@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Chuck Lavazzi) writes:
>In article <1199@seqp4.sequoia.com> jcurtis@seqp4.sequoia.com (John Curtis) writes:
>>
>>Pardon me while I spew out invective against the
>>US car manufacturers.
>>
>[details about poorly-designed Chevrolet deleted]
>>
>>In short, nothing has changed since the mid-1970's.
>>
>>And the unions are perplexed by the layoffs.  Its a 
>>shame that working people are suffering when its
>>clear that management is living in a dream world,
>>totally unable to compete with a well-designed product.
>>
>	This sounds familiar.  My last American small car was a Dodge
>Omni which effectively fell apart before it hit 70,000 miles.  I knew I was
>in trouble when the factory-installed tape player died within 6 months..>:-)>
>One particularly egregious example of Stoopid Design on this turkey was the
>manual transmission.  The *only* way to check the fluid level was to put the
>car up on a rack and remove a plug from the side of the transmission near the
>bottom, which make routine checks of said fluid level pretty darn difficult
>for the owner.  Which is one reason why I had to put a new transmission in
>before 60,000 miles.
>	By contrast my '87 Tercel has all reservoirs readily available and
>routine maintenance is realtively simple.  It's a minor point, but seems to
>indicate a fundamental difference in design philosophy.  The easier a machine
>is to use and maintain, the more useful it is to the end user.  It doesn't
>matter whether the machine is a car or a PC.  And the more useful a given
>vendors machines are, the more likely people are to buy them.  The consumer
>is really a much more rational decision-maker than our Industrial Barony
>thinks they are.

	That's strange, my '86 Daytona (made by Chrysler, and not Mitsubishi)
has all reservoirs readily available and routine maintenance is very simple.
On the other hand, my freind had an '86 Celica  that was in the shop so often
that it earned the name the "Car from Hell" It actually had moving parts made
out of plastic, that needed to be replaced often. He eventually replaced it
with a BMW.

I don't think this has much to do with American vs Japanese cars, other than
some cars are poorly designed and some aren't.  

I also think blaming the CEOs for a companies problem (however well deserved)
is ignoring the bigger problem - they're higher salaries aren't the only thing
(and probably not the most important thing) wrong.