From: steinhau@ns.larc.nasa.gov (Uwe K. Steinhau)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: trust the Canadians....
Date: 11 Dec 1992 18:30:40 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center/United Information Systems UIS
Distribution: world
Reply-To: steinhau@ns.larc.nasa.gov (Uwe K. Steinhau)
NNTP-Posting-Host: wolfman.larc.nasa.gov

In article <1992Dec11.090800.1@vxdesy.desy.de>, godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:

> In article <1992Dec11.035813.11862@video.rogers.com>, 
gschenk@video.rogers.com (Gerry 
> Schenk) writes:
> > 
> > Dear Mr. Bohner,
> > 
> >   For the last two weeks, I have been following the posts to and from 
> > Laurence G.  I am appalled and disgusted, that an individual such as 
> > Laurence, has a forum as wonderful as the net, in which to promote such
> > hatred.  I am a first generation Canadian, with my parents imigrating from
> > Germany in the 50's. Trying to keep up with current events in Germany, and
> > trying to maintain cultural ties, which I am already once removed from, 
has
> > proven to be extremely difficult.  I was elated, when I got our news feed 
up
> > and running, and I was able to gain an insight and a unique perspective 
on my
> > ancestral homeland.  I am annoyed and saddened, that postings on this 
> > newsgroup continue to bring up events of 50 years ago, and that 
individuals
> > such as Lawrence, are capable of displaying their racist remarks.  Free 
speach
> > is a right,  but so too, is a right not to listen.  I support your stand, 
and
> > in due time, with sadness, will be following your lead to abandon 
> > soc.culture.german.
> > 
> > 
> > Sincerely,
> > 
> > Gerry Schenk
> > 
> > 
> 
> Strange, I thought the neo-nazism in Germany was happening right now, nmot 
50 
> years ago.  And is there a statute of limitations on criticism that I don't
> know about?
> 
> I remind you once again that my anti_German articles were inspired by my 
strong
> feelings against German racism, and it is ironic that net users such as you
> have accused me of racism.  The Germans are not a race, and they are not a
> minority group, so criticism directed of them is not, in my book, racist.
> 
> Also, like many other users on this group, it seems to have conveniently 
escaped
> your attention that Bohner's support for free speech, like yours, includes
> having the accounts of people who express views he doesn't like closed down.
> Moreover, this appears to have been done by lying to the computer 
administration
> concerned, a matter that seems not to worry you or him at all.  Let's face 
it,
> none of you Germans are exactly seekers after the truth, are you?  You don't
> want to hear about anything that happened 50 years ago, you don't want 
people
> to criticise Germans for their nazi activities now, you don't mind a bit of
> dishonesty when it gets people like me off the net!
> 
> If you're so interested in your lost culture, why not go and live in Germany
> for a few years, as I did, and see how you like it there?
> 
> Laurence
> 

I've followed this long enough now and simply have to reply.

Who cares what G.s idea of race or racism is, here's Webster's official 
definition of "race":

... a class or kind of people unified by community of interests, habits or 
characteristics (the English -)....

		and "racism": 

... racial prejudice or discrimination ....

Germans, therefore, certainly qualify as a race (majority/minority makes no 
difference) and G. most definitely is a racist - plain and simple. The 
audacity to suggest immunity by Jewish heritage, coupled with an 
irrepressible arrogance about the subject, proves that this man is deeply 
disturbed, whatever the cause.  Yes, I am German, and yes, I call G. a 
racist. This may be ironic and absurd to him but remains a fact. A German who 
hates Jews (or any other race) is a racist. Thus, if a Jew hates Germans (or 
or any other race), he/she becomes a racist as well. Naturally, if I were a 
racist, the last thing I would do is to admit this fact. Well, enough of 
that.....

G.'s originally article was nauseating, to say the least, just what one would 
expect to hear from such a bigot. I am not a pacifist, but I could not have 
created garbage like that. Then, of course, neither do I have G.s 
"INSPIRATION", hatred, or a seriously sick mind. Let me make one thing clear 
to all you G.s out there:
I'm sick of German bashing (I, as well as most of the Germans have done 
nothing to deserve that), of hearing what terrible and barbaric human beings 
we are, and hearing that I owe the entire Jewish community for the rest of my 
life. I owe NOTHING, not to anyone. PERIOD. I have as much to do with the 
holocaust as I have with the assassination of Julius Caesar. I am a human 
being who tries to live peacefully - like a great many Germans. It is 
instigators like G. who get tempers flaring, and stir up hatred. Face it, 
there are people out there, who don't start to hate G. for what G. writes, 
they generalize, and hate Jews for what G. writes.  G. is so narrow-minded 
that he simply CANNOT understand that his actions can lead to coaxing  people 
into doing just that....but maybe that's what he wants. Seems to me 
generalization is his forte.

I think the original message that started all this went like:

				"GERMANY - BEWARE"

Absolutely correct, GERMANY - BEWARE of your future and be aware of your past.
 
*but also*

GERMANY - BEWARE of arrogant sado-racist bigots like G.

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Newsgroups: soc.culture.german