HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: TEXAS SCHOOL FINANCE: GRAPPLING WITH FAIR SHARE PLAN
Date: 10 Nov 92 19:46:23 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin


                              
HIGH NOON                     
  The Texas Legislature       
convenes a special session    
today to decide the fate of a 
controversial school finance  
plan. (#9)                    
                              

         ==============  QUOTE OF THE DAY  ==============
  "It's just another money laundering scheme put together by the
  governor behind closed doors to try to put a little trickery,
   treachery and deceit on the voters ..." -- Texas Republican
 Chairman Fred Meyer on Gov. Richards' (D) Fair Share Plan. (#9)


*9   TEXAS FINANCE:  LEGISLATORS GRAPPLE WITH FAIR SHARE PLAN
     The Texas Legislature convenes in a special session today to
debate a school finance plan crafted by Gov. Ann Richards (D),
Lt. Gov. Bob Bullock (D) and House Speaker Gib Lewis (D) (multi).
     The "Fair Share Plan" attempts to equalize money between
rich and poor school districts by requiring Texas' richest school
districts to give a portion of their property tax collection to
the state (See DRC 11/3, #7).  But "because the state
Constitution does not allow tax money collected in one district
to be spent in another, an amendment is needed to allow the state
to collect money from rich districts," writes the HOUSTON
CHRONICLE (Rugeley).
     School officials say they oppose the plan because it would
not spend enough money (multi).  They say that "it would require
huge increases in local property taxes -- as much as $3B
statewide -- to maintain current programs and keep up with
inflation and growth (Brooks, AUSTIN AMERICAN-STATESMAN).
Richards and Bullock said they will not support a tax increase
and that schools will receive only $625M in new funds for the
1993-94 budget (See DRC 11/6, #6).
     "In effect, the leadership's plan would require local school
districts to cut programs or raise property taxes to keep up with
new enrollment, meet inflation and make improvements," writes the
DALLAS MORNING NEWS (Slater).  Bill Miller, spokesman for the
School Finance Working Group, a coalition of organizations
representing rich and poor districts, said:  "This plan is not a
solution; it's a Band-Aid for a gaping wound."
     Others criticize the plan's "Robin Hood" approach.  Texas
Republican chairman Fred Meyer:  "It's just another money
laundering scheme put together by the governor behind closed
doors to try to put a little trickery, treachery and deceit on
the voters and citizens of Texas."
     The state has until June 1 to come up with a plan that meets
the demands of a Texas Supreme Court ruling (all cites 11/8).


-- 
--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |        Austin, TX
- FICA isn't a retirement plan. Your money's already spent. You'll get zilch.-
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: What, Me Vote?
Date: 6 Nov 92 13:07:13 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <1606@airgun.wg.waii.com> miller@hmsp04.wg3.waii.com (Griff Miller X7114) writes:

>In article <1992Nov03.164255.2557@NeoSoft.com> hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen) writes:
>> 
>>And how to you reduce the behavior?  You educate people.  Yet, the
>>Republicans have fought sex education (even for adults!) every step of the
>>way.

>I think many Republicans do want to educate people on this matter. However,
>the curriculum is abstinence, not condoms. Many people don't want to even
>consider abstinence, so they cry out "see, the Republicans don't
care."

I think you're interpretation here is just slightly off.  The problem
is that the Republicans want to 'educate' toward *ONLY* abstinence,
without teaching anything about anything else.  Sort of like drug
education that consists of "Just say no."  Other people want a broader
approach because they recognize that abstinence alone just isn't going
to stop people or keep those it doesn't stop safe.  All too often the
'Christian' argument winds up being "Well, if they didn't SIN like
that they would be ok.  They got what they deserved."  Some people
prefer to teach about consequences other than those involved in the
current mysticicism.

> 
>If I'm not mistaken, abstinence is what Jim meant by reducing the behavior.

Yes, but Jim is living on another planet.

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: CHOICE: DEBATE BASED ON COMPETING PHILOSOPHIES
Date: 5 Nov 92 03:09:46 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <7674@lib.tmc.edu> jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:

>In article <1992Oct29.232645.13268@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> marc@grieger.austin.ibm.com (Marc Fairorth) writes:
>>The end result will be that poor families will be sending their kids to 
>>increasingly poorer schools, and private schools will florish.  We need
>>less polarization in this country.  Strong local public schools are 
>>essential to the well being of a community.  School vouchers are a bad idea.

>I agree that vouchers, introduced into the current educational landscape,
>would result in a large exodus to privately-owned schools. We part company,
>though, at your assertion that poor families would send their kids to poorer
>schools. For this to be true, you must assume that poor families would not
>have the same options as better-off families. I believe this assumption is
>patently unsupportable. I do not see any disparity in opportunity at all -
>after all, those poor families would have vouchers, too, thus creating a
>market for privately-owned schools in the poor areas as well. That leaves the
>publcly-owned schools in a crack, true: they must either improve and attract
>students the old-fashioned way, or disappear; in either case, the students
>come out ahead, for they either go to better publicly-owned schools, or better
>privately-owned schools.

This doesn't work, for reasons we've gone over and over in this group.
Is there really any point in going over them again?

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: rocky@NeoSoft.com (Joe Mullally)
Subject: Re: Football Failures at Bowie Force end of Season
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: tx
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 00:32:09 GMT

In article <1992Nov03.235337.19715@watson.ibm.com> johniac@johniac.austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000) writes:
>In article <1992Oct30.091317.16897@montagar.com> davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey) writes:
>>	Because not giving them an education DEPRIVES them of those options.
>>In this market, not having a diploma limits that that would hire you.  Failing
>>math class doesn't help you get investment sense, but how can you get any of
>>that sense unless you at least understand math?  Very few high-paying jobs
>>are available to those without high-school diplomas, and if you decided you
>>wanted one, you couldn't.
>
>1.  You have every right to not have a high-paying job.

	We should refrain from dimming one's perception of one's choices,
true?


>Education isn't a window that slams shut once you turn 18.

	No, it probably slams shut much earlier than that.

>But the system is rigged.  The only way to pursue a career in professional
>sports is through the academic high schools and colleges.  This needs to 
>change.

	Agreed.

>>	Neither is letting them play football.  But it keeps their options
>>open to other opportunities incase they are injured, don't get that
>>scholarship (which if they fail their classes there, the lose the scholarship),
>>or picked for that pro team.  Why do you want those options closed?
>
>I don't.  If they choose to excel in their academic classes as well as on the 
>field then more power to them.

	As long as these are seperate entities, I have no problem with
this.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Mullally (rocky@sugar.neosoft.com) PH:713-681-2495
"We need stronger death penalties..." George Bush, debate #2
From: miller@hmsp04.wg3.waii.com (Griff Miller X7114)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Abstinence from Sex Education?
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:56:07 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Western Geo. - Div of Western Atlas Intn'l Inc., Houston, TX

In article <BxK810.M9q@NeoSoft.com> hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen) writes:
>In article <1620@airgun.wg.waii.com>, miller@hmsp04.wg3.waii.com (Griff Miller X7114) writes:
>> You say that like it's a bad thing :-). Seriously, these Republicans want to 
>> teach abstinence as the first line of defense, not as the only form of
>> defense. 
> 
>I don't think that's quite right.  I've never heard anyone, even the most
>ardent sex education proponent, say that abstinence shouldn't be brought
>up and encouraged.  

Sure they bring it up. But it isn't the first thing on their list of "Ways to
Avoid the AIDS Virus", and it should be, because it's the most effective
way to avoid it.

How can you encourage abstinence and mass-distribute free condoms at the 
same time? How can you encourage people to stop drug use and mass-distribute
free needles? You can't, without talking out of both sides of your mouth.

>On the other hand, many of the major groups (and
>people) opposing sex education have made it clear that abstinence is the
>only acceptable sex education message.

You are right. But the underlying meaning here is that since abstinence
is by far the most effective means of avoiding AIDS it is the only 
acceptable message, since anything less effective would risk lives.
--
Griff Miller - miller@monarch.wg3.waii.com
My opinions are mine, not Western's.
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but 
fools despise wisdom and discipline."   - Proverbs 1:7 
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen)
Subject: Re: Term Limits
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Distribution: tx
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:44:28 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.192738.23552@tamsun.tamu.edu>, dlb5404@tamsun.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf) writes:
> Well, part of the problem is that there usually aren't any opposing
> candidates from the same party as the incumbent.  For instance, I don't
> want to vote for an incumbent like Jack Fields, who in theory represents
> my district (in reality, he represents only the oil interests in Humble),
> but I'm not about to vote for the Democratic (usually liberal)
> opposition.  If another conservative with less bias towards the oil
> industry had run against Fields, I'd have voted for her/him in an
> instant.
 
That makes sense.  But I'm not convinced that's what's driving a
lot of other voters.  After all, for years we've had voters who voted
Republican (even conservative Repub) for President and Democrat (somewhat
liberal Democrats) for Congress.
-- 
Doug Andersen
hari@Sugar.NeoSoft.com
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Bush starts unpatriotic trade war.
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:48:27 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <BxKB41.oI@NeoSoft.com> hari@NeoSoft.com (Doug Andersen) writes:

>In article <1992Nov10.142724.23893@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>> 
>> Quite right.  The one thing that is perhaps worse than a trade war is
>> playing by the rules when the guy you are trading with isn't.  In
>> other words, the current situation.
> 
>I don't know what "current situation" you are talking about.  This is
>the pot calling the kettle black and neither side is "playing by the
>rules".  The French happen to be in the wrong here, and the US called them
>on it.  Other countries call the US on their subsidies and tariffs all the
>time, but they don't make the news because they don't have the economic
>power to force a (newsworthy) confrontation.

So the guy who kills mice is "the pot calling the kettle black" when
he complains about someone committing murder?  This is about the
relationship between our tariff picture and trade barriers when
compared to most developed nations.

Hey, just think of it as the free market in action.  The guy who has
the most economic power makes the rules.  This IS free markets in
action, just on a macro scale.

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000)
Subject: Re: 10 reasons to dump Jake Pickle
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 18:28:46 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstations and Systems, Austin, TX
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

fred j mccall 575-3539 (mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com) wrote:
:                                               Those are POLICY votes,
: and indicate that this organization has its own political agenda when
: it starts counting them as 'waste' votes.

Agreed.  For example what does CAGW say about the 9 billion dollars (or
whatever) wasted on the "War" on drugs?

: race for governor, and I voted in the Democratic primary because I
: thought one of the candidates sounded enough like a flaming fascist to
: be actively dangerous.

Who would that be?

--
John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
    "Egad, a base tone denotes a bad age" -- TMBG   "I Palindrome I"
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com (Thomas Rush)
Subject: Re: Gore's environmental ideas
Reply-To: thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com (Thomas Rush)
Organization: Compaq Computer Corporation
Distribution: tx
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 18:43:35 GMT

In article <1992Nov3.191657.3495@mksol.dseg.ti.com> mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>In <1992Nov02.214743.3842@cpqhou.compaq.com> thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com (Thomas Rush) writes:
>
>>In article <4720@d75.UUCP> curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch/131072) writes:
>>>
>>>Fleet efficiency standards for auto manufacturers are not the best way
>>>for the government to reduce auto fuel consumption in the US.  Raising
>>>gas taxes is the best way.  General fossil fuel consumption is what we
>>>really want to reduce though, right?  The best way to do that is to tax
>>>fossil fuels.  The Europeans instituted a Carbon tax to accomplish
>>>this.  Coal is taxed more than oil, which is taxed more than Natural
>>>gas, etc.  The tax is based on carbon production during burning.
>
>>This is great.  Glad to see someone admit it.
>
>Admit WHAT?  
>
>>"General incomes are what we want to really reduce, though, right?  
>>The best way to do that is to tax incomes."
>
>Sorry, Tom, but it just ain't the same thing.  It is, however, the
>sort of gamesmanship that turns people off to libertarians and their
>ideas. 

"Thomas," if you will.

I've enjoyed the opportunity to put forth some of my views in 
this forum.  I am not disappointed with most of the interplay.

There does seem to ba a pattern, though, Fred, that disturbs 
me: some rather large part of your responses of late have
been like the above: disagreement without content.  Attacking
the ideas without being willing to provide alternatives.  

Would you please let me know just what you base your belief on?
Am I correct in assuming that you believe taxing cigarettes 
decreases cigarette consumption?  Does taxing real estate sales
tend to decrease the frequency that people sell real estate?
Why then do you not believe that taxing incomes removes some
of the incentive for producing more income, and therefore
reduces incomes?

In fact, Fred, please let us know your feelings/beliefs about
the following:

Do you support US Export subsidies?  Farm subsidies?  The
$4.1 Trillion Federal debt?  Deficit financing?  Sematech?
What US troop levels in Europe do you feel are justified?
Should Japan pay for its own defense?  What about Saudi Arabia?
What do you see the future of the Social Security program to be
in 2032?  2052?  How should the Federal gov't decide how much
to spend on AIDS research?  On breast cancer research?  Why
do you believe that research can't be privately funded?

>>>We now return you to our regularly scheduled knee-jerk conservative and
>>>knee-jerk liberal posturing.
>
>>Yep.
>
>Yep, indeed.

So at least we agree on _something_.



thomas rush				uunet!cpqhou!thomasr
compaq computer corporation		their employee,
deep in the hearth of texas		not their opinions.
From: curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: Re: Term Limits
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:51:51 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin

reaper@wixer.cactus.org (Keath Milligan) writes:
>Term limit legislation is a gimmick designed to remove a few, specific
>congressmen that have (perhaps rightfully so) made a lot of enemies.
>The people in their districts have an oportunity to "limit their terms" on
>a regular basis and they choose not to.  Term limits simply aren't
>needed.  The people in a given state have the right to elect who they
>see fit to be their representative, other states should not have the
>right to impose restrictions on this process.

Does this mean that it's also a gimmick for the presidency and should
be revoked there?

I disagree.  Incumbents are like royalty now.  They win not because
they're doing a good job, but because of name recognition and all the
free mailings they get at taxpayer expense.

The quickest easiest way to fix all this is to pass term limits.
It would be the end of pork barrelling, because Congressman A would
no longer be able to say to Congressman B, "Give me some pork and
I'll give you some next year."  Because next year he'd be gone.


-- 
--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |        Austin, TX
 - Begin means testing of Social Security, Medicare and Farm Subsidies now. -
From: curt@ekhadafi.austin.ibm.com (Curt Finch 903 2F021 curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com 512-838-2806)
Newsgroups: tx.politics
Subject: GOAL FOUR:  FIRST IN MATH & SCIENCE
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:02:18 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin


        =====  GOAL FOUR:  FIRST IN MATH & SCIENCE  =====

*4   JAPANESE MATH METHODS:  THEY MAKE KIDS "SMARTER"
     A recent study says Japanese students do not outscore
American students in mathematics because they are inherently
smarter, but because of Japanese teaching methods (Kelly, USA
TODAY).
     The study, co-authored by Maryellen Schaub and David Baker,
says Japanese teachers spend more time presenting new material to
students.  U.S. teachers spend more time reviewing old material,
keeping order and doing administrative tasks, the authors write.
     Baker called the American system "extremely uneven" in
presenting mathematics.  USA TODAY writes that "some of the most
effective classrooms in terms of math teaching are in the U.S.,"
yet so are some of the most ineffective ones.
     According to Baker, master teachers are assigned to slow
learners in Japan.  But in the U.S., less-experienced teachers
work with "hard-to-teach" students, while senior teachers teach
the gifted.
     A "strong national ministry that sets standards" is an
advantage enjoyed by Japan's educators, according to Baker.  He
said:  "The Japanese system appears to get a larger curriculum
across to a larger number of students." (11/10)


-- 
--
curt@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com (Curt L. Finch) | AIX NFS/NIS Field Quality 
My views are unrelated to those of IBM     |        Austin, TX
- FICA isn't a retirement plan. Your money's already spent. You'll get zilch.-
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: johniac@austin.ibm.com (John Iacoletti/100000)
Subject: Re: Football Failures at Bowie Force end of Season
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 00:28:32 GMT
Distribution: tx
Organization: IBM Advanced Workstations and Systems, Austin, TX
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

fred j mccall 575-3539 (mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com) wrote:
: And then we have to support them, have cops to catch them when they
: decide that since they can't work they'll find some other way to
: survive, pay for courts, jails, and prisons to deal with them, etc.
: Quite expensive, John.  Much moreso than simply telling them way back
: when that if they don't pass their classes they can't play football.

Only if you assume that all people who fail high school will become criminals.

: >Life is full of choices.  Some are harder than others.  You should still have
: >the choice.
: 
: But the rest of us are still going to have to pay, one way or another,
: even in your Libertopia.

Only in your Socialistopia where we all have to pay for other people's choices.

: And just what do you want to do when they start burglerizing John
: Haugh's house?  Oh, that's right -- he didn't pay for police services,
: so we won't do anything.  :-)

I believe JFH has already answered this question :-)

: Well, I disagree some with Dave here.  Most of those 'effectively
: morons' DID pass.  That's how they got where they are now.  And they
: should be able to charge whatever they can get away with.

I can't think of anything a professional athlete does that requires anything
that is taught in high school.

--
John Iacoletti       IBM AWS Austin       Internet: johniac@austin.ibm.com
        My opinions do not reflect the views of the IBM Corporation
    "Egad, a base tone denotes a bad age" -- TMBG   "I Palindrome I"
Newsgroups: tx.politics
From: thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com (Thomas Rush)
Subject: Re: Clinton has won...watch your pocket!
Reply-To: thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com (Thomas Rush)
Organization: Compaq Computer Corporation
Distribution: tx
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 17:28:20 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.062220.6644@europa.lonestar.org> tom@europa.lonestar.org (Tom Kimball) writes:
>In article <21814@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>
>>everyone has re-learned how to play the tax shelter game (and I have a
>>few in mind that will never be illegal), we should see a deficit out
>>of the Clinton administration that makes the $292B '92 deficit look
>>tiny.
>
>There is no way he could tripple the average budget deficit in 4 years like 
>the Republicans did.  I remember the Republicans rightly criticizing those 
>horrible $50 billion deficits of the Carter years.

I'm betting that he can.  Here's my official projection of a $1 Trillion
deficit in Clinton's forth budget.


thomas rush				thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com
compaq computer corporation		their employee,
deep in the hearth of texas		not their opinions.