From: sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: A reply to Raj Sharma ( OR Re: God and Religions )
Date: 16 Aug 1992 13:07:17 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

>(raj.sharma) writes:

 A preliminary note:
--------------------
    [ I find your articles in `soc.culture.indian' and
`soc.religion.eastern' very thought - provoking. 
      I request you to cross-post your articles citing
 views of Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi in the Tamil net
 soc.culture.tamil also for the benefit of Tamil readers
 there. ]

>
>S.Pandian writes:
>
>> Since we all know what religions are, I don't have to
>> start with what are they. The question really is not a good
>> definition of religion but a good understanding of it and
>> the need for it. 
>
>
>	But let us also not confuse between God and Religions.

    Very true.      

>
>	Water is required by every living person; but the way
>	of getting it differ. One may turn on the tap, get it
>	from the refrigerator, fasten a bucket on a rope and
>	get it from the well.

    Agreed. 

>
>	God is like water. Religions are how one goes about
>	getting it.

    I see that you are giving this example to prove a point.
    It is like this. I feel thirsty often. It is something
 that comes naturally. Is it the case with God as well ?
 It is my question. Do we think God freely like we feel
 thirsty naturally ? Not really. We are brought up with a
 concept of God that our parents practice and as we grow,
 we inherit all the religious myths, scriptures and practices
 of the religion(s) that our parents practice. I was raised
 a Hindu and I carried a lot of superstitions and other
 irrational thoughts in my head. What if I was raised without
 any religious tradition ? What I be thinking of God now ?
 What about the case of a person living alone in an island
 cut-off from this world ? He might be probably considering
 the natural forces like `thunder', `rain', `lightening' or
 `storm' as his Gods as they affect his life terribly. If you
 have been to museums in India, you will find a lot of stone
 idols like snake etc. Many Gods in the vedas are these natural
 forces only (Indra, Varuna, Agni, Vaayu etc.) This concept of
 God is really due to FEAR. People are scared to stand alone 
 in this world and so they took asylum in religions. They don't
 seem to realize that God is Love and not fear.

> God is the need; religions are secondary.
      God is Love.  
      A garden's beauty really lies in its flowers. We don't
 need others to interpret the beauty of roses or lotuses.
 Words can't capture their beauty. 
     Likewise, we don't need others to interpret God for us.
 
>> ... If each person chooses by his own free will a religion that
>> suits him and minds his  own business, this world would not have
>> as many problems as it is facing now.
>
>
>	Two points:
>
>		- Agreed that "if each one attended to his business
>                  of drinking the water, there will be less problems."
      
     Ramana Maharishi expresses the same in his advice to his   
 devotees :
    " Why worry about others ? First realize your self. "

>
>		- Does one know of a world without problems?

     We can't solve all problems by one stroke.
     It is like unfolding a very complicate knot. We unfold it
 one-by-one. You can start it anywhere. As long as you succeed
 in unfolding small knots one-by-one, you feel that you are
 really progressing. What do you say about those who put more
 small knots by wrongly unfolding the small knots and proclaim
 that they are progressing fastly. Wouldn't it be cheating ?
 Compare this example with the organized religions practised
 today and you might see the point that I am trying to make here.

>
>
>> ... if he is waking them from a sound sleep and
>> explains them his religious principles, thinking that he is
>> doing them a good service.
>
>
>	Once a woman becomes a mother, her breasts are automatically
>	filled with milk. Can one stop this natural fact?
>	Can a mother stop it?
>
>	And the mother feeds the baby without thinking that she
>	is doing the baby a "good service."

    I will give you another example.
    I am a total stranger to one area and this area has too many
 roads going in a zig-zag fashion. If you take a wrong exit by
 mistake, it will take you a long time to return to the place 
 you started. Suppose that a person accosts me and asks me how
 to go to a place. Suppose that I don't like to say "I don't
 know where that place is. I am a stranger here also" and that
 I point him out a road arbitrarily. Wouldn't it be unfair ?
 Wouldn't it be cheating ? 
    How many preachers of organised religions practised today
 have really experinced God as their religions claim in their
 scriptures ? 
   Wouldn't it be unfair to point others directions without
 a confidence that they will really lead to the place they
 want to go ? What difference it makes whether you go alone
 or in lakhs , if your direction is wrong ?
 

>
>
>> There is a is a Tamil saying that
>>    " aasai aRumin aasai aRumin
>>      eesanOdaayinum aasai aRumin ."
>>   [ Cut your desires, cut your desires
>>     Even if you have desires on God ( like God-realization ) ]
>
>	
>	My Tamil friends translated this as:
>
>	"Cool your desires, cool your desires,
>	 Even if God has not told you, cool your desires."

    This is a very poor Tamil translation. I suggest you to
 post a query in `soc.culture.tamil' to get a very good
 translation of the Tamil verse that I posted. I don't
 translate verses to fit my views. My translation is very
 close to the original, though my English may be bad.

>
>
>>     Even if you have desires on God ( like God-realization ) ]
>
>
>	Even if your desires are for "freedom."
>
>	[Would you agree?]
    
    Do I give an impression that I am very "attached" to
 "freedom" ?

>
>
>> Religious fanaticism stems from this excessive attachment on
>> God and for a recent reference, I refer to the `kar seva' in
>> progress in Ayodhya for the construction started for the Ram
>> temple there.
>
>
>	Not confusing between God and religion would be a help here.
>	"Kar Sevaks" may be religious; but, are they after God [first]?
>				           [or only after God's temple?]

      It would be better to direct this question to V.H.P.
 authorities. 

>
>	Does God need a temple?
>	
>	Isn't the whole world God's temple?

>
>
>>  " Let the eyes see what it wants to see.
>>    Let the ears hear what it wants to hear.
>>    Let the nose smell what it wants to smell.
>>    Let the mouth taste what it wants to taste.
>>    Let your mind flow freely."
>
>
>	Eyes see,
>	Ears hear,
>	Nose smells,
>	Mouth tastes,
>	Mind moves freely.
>
>	Can they do otherwise?

     They can. Not many people think freely. ( Please refer
 to the S.R.E. archives to find the discussion on my reply to
 this posting in question.) A good example is the riots that
 followed Salman Rushdie's controversial novel "Satanic
 Verses". There was a movie made in Pakistan with Rushdie
 potrayed as a super-villain who finally gets killed by  God.
 Not surprisingly, the author did not object to the movie,
 which later became a big hit in Pakistan. The book was banned
 there.

>
>	Who am I [?] to "let them do" what they do [anyway].

     I am thinking on the same question.
    
>
>
>> Some readers of this posting may be religious.
>> Some may not be religious.
>> It doesn't matter.
>
>
>	Truly!
>	
>	Why? Because things are the way they are!

   I am not really trying to change things. I am just unfolding
 the complicate knot in my hands. It is a long process, but I
 am glad to see some progress in my little game. It would be
 very silly and ridiculous to proclaim that I have unfolded the
 knots of others as well. Everyone has his own complicate knot
 to unfold. The knots are not the same.

>
>
>> ... If we have an open mind,
>
>	Are we not the mind? the world?

     I have not reached this state yet.

>
>	Can "I" keep "I" open?

     I am trying to understand this "I". I have not yet unfolded
 the knot in my hands. 
>
>
>---raj

                                                    - S.Pandian
                                               sp2@cec1.WUSTL.edu
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian