HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gklein@uoft02.utoledo.edu (Gary Klein, bear at heart)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ann Lander's YUCK!
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:48:36 GMT
Organization: Carlson Library, Univ of Toledo

In article <ldk0buINNn6g@spim.mti.sgi.com>, dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff 
   Dauber) writes:  Here is that  letter....
> ...  To be fair, however, a large part of the
> blame must be placed on the shoulders of a small minority of the homosexual
> community. I refer to the effeminate, limp-wristed, nasal-voiced queens
> who jump in front of the cameras and make a spectacle of themselves.
> 
> Those weirdos do not represent me or any of my gay friends. 
...
> Sabotaged in Calgary

DEAR SABOTAGED IN CALGARY:

     Having visited your fair city in early September of this year, I have to
point out that more than 80% of the men and women who were eating in, or
strolling by the quaint/queer/French cuisine restaurant that my friends & I
lunched at belonged to the Effeminate/Limp-wristed/Nasal-voiced queens/Make-a
spectacle-of-themselves-crowd that you find to be just a small minority of
Calgary's homosexual community.

     Maybe you don't know the difference between an Artsy-Fartsy-Cutesy-antique
community AND a gay ghetto.  But sister, get real!  

     And if you knew anything about those "limp-wristed" neighbors of yours,
you would certainly know that it takes a lot more than limp wrist to crack the
whip at those leather clad folks, whose mere sight makes you run for the
nearest closet.

     If you really want to see butch folks handle a whip, with STRONG wrists,
then hop on over to your nearest Gay Rodeo.

     BTW, I hear that the city of Regina was named in honor of a queen!  
Doesn't that just send goosebumps up & down your spine! 

LOVINGLY YOURS,
     Maumee Dearest
--
                                               "Librarian, Leather bound"
Gary Klein,   Business Librarian,  (Univ of Toledo)           * * * * 
PO Box 12650                  Toledo OH  43606-0250            *   *   
(w): 419-537-2629      fac2813@uoft01                            *   
(h): 419-243-2740      fac2813@uoft01.utoledo.edu         B4 t+ w- g s+ k
Xref: sparky soc.motss:42576 talk.politics.misc:50702 ca.politics:8592
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
Subject: Re: Fear of Success (was Re: Oregon poll)
Date: 9 Oct 92 18:44:03 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <BvrLr7.BtM@hpuerca.atl.hp.com>, mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser) writes:
> In <BvrGH7.JyL@scd.hp.com> mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton) writes:
# #It's mostly couched in terms of "a better environment for my
# #children, though I reject the witch-hung mentality", "homosexuals
# #have above-average earning capacity already, and 'way too much
# #political power", and our old friend "AIDS is g*d's punishment..."
# #Although these people are at sites other than my own, I feel like
# #these people are part of my family, and I get angry in the same
# #way.  I don't know if my anger makes my responses ineffective, but
# #I can't help but respond to this stuff. 

Perhaps if homosexuals weren't so intent on using their political
power to oppress in places like California, there wouldn't be so
much willingness to tolerate oppression the other direction in
other states.

# Seriously, the OCA scares the daylights out of me, too.  Remember, I
# not only live in the same state but the same city as Hardwick (as in
# vs. Bowers :-( ).  We've had our fair share of gay bashings, murders, and
# other assorted hate crimes, and the thought of them being "officially
# sanctioned" makes me want to run for the hills.
# 
# #Mike Drayton      mdrayton@sr.hp.com       Hewlett-Packard Co.
#  Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta

How does Measure 9, by prohibiting the state from promoting 
homosexuality, sanction violent attacks on homosexuals?

There are real savages out there to watch for (and it's not just
homosexuals that have to worry about neo-Nazi skinheads), but it's
not at all clear that Measure 9 has anything to do with that problem,
and there's certainly no alliance between the skinheads and OCA.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Lesson learned from Gov. Wilson's signing of AB 2601: if you don't get 
your way, have a riot.  Next time, Gov. Wilson will cower appropriately.
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.
Date: 11 Oct 92 19:37:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Oct11.193719.7150
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Oct11.155144.16907@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> gsmith@lauren.uucp (Gene W. Smith) writes:
>Is Tammy Faye Bakker an icon because we know who she is? 

No, she's an icon because of *what* she is. That mascara, that dress,
those tears, her husband who takes it up the ass! Pathos incarnate.

if you'll notice, even Tammy Faye is being copied. The big new
Christian network (which rose in about 6 years - I'm astounded) is the
Trinity Broadcast Network. There's a major husband and wife team, and
the wife really wants to be Tammy Faye. It's quite astounding.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                 Shame is playback: exposure to disapproval
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gsmith@lauren.uucp (Gene W. Smith)
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Organization: IWR, University of Heidelberg, Germany
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 19:10:13 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.212202.9629@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

>	Who's Madonna?

I think that was the name in the movie of some opera singer whose
actual name was Shwartzcough or something like that, whom Marilyn
Monroe played in a movie directed by George Cukor back in the early
60's.  The title was "The Rose", and it was the greatest triumph of the
powerful synergistic chemistry between Monroe and Cukor in so many
great films.

Then again, I could be wrong.  This icon stuff is tricky, I can't even
make it work under X-windows on some days.


-- 
     Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/IWR/Ruprecht-Karls University 
               gsmith@kalliope.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jontom@HQ.Ileaf.COM (J.T. Kittredge)
Subject: Re: What adjectives do you think best describe romantic jealousy?
Organization: Interleaf, Inc, Waltham, Massachusetts
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 16:50:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.150833.1880@osf.org> coren@osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.000405.26583@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>> I also haven't ever been in a situation where
>> I would feel very jealous.  Maybe I just need more experience.
>
>Well, maybe something can be arranged... Tony *is* an attractive man... :-)

Easier said than done, Dear Robert. Some of us have *tried*.
Yours, JonTom

	J.T. Kittredge
	jontom@ileaf.com

-- 
"I feel, my dear boy, my arm around you. I feel the pulsation,
 thereby, as it were, of your excellent future and your admirable
 endowment" -- Heny James to his protoge' Henrik Anderson
               (as quoted by Fred Kaplan)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: max@athena.mit.edu (Max Meredith Vasilatos)
Subject: Re: Why's It the Way It Is?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 16:57:16 GMT

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>(Cindy Tittle Moore) writes:

>>ad nauseum.
>Please, Cindy, no editorializing (cf. _ad nauseum_ :-).

Point of information:  it's "ad nauseam."

>If, as seems to happen, a person now and then is
>not entirely sure of my gender, then I think I've managed
>something else I count as worthwhile, not to sport my gender
>in the foreground.  There's nothing especially wrong with
>having one's gender known, but I think it does help,
>precisely because of the default assumptions and the
>unconscious processes that Cindy mentions earlier, to try to
>make one's arguments transcend gender unless gender is the
>point.

As one who often leaves gender aside when writing here,
I've noticed that 95% of the time, responses to me (especially
from Jess) manage to drag my gender back into the conversation.

I've opted to take this as an attempt to both honor my
presumably different point of view, and highlight the fact
that not everyone here is male (and sometimes the language
appears to force it).  But it's akin to Stephanie's discomfort
when her parents introduce her to people "because they're gay"
or my parents introduce me to people "because they're sick."
If we wanted to interact along those planes, we would (and
often do).  We'd be happier making that decision ourselves,
thanks.

Max
max@athena.mit.edu
From: wood@siemens.com. (Jim Wood)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Visiting Portland, Oregon
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:53:06 GMT

Hey folks,

I'm visiting Portland, Oregon for five days (10/17-22) and would
like some information on places to see there.  Here goes:

1.  Is there a good gym with a gay clientele?
2.  What bars and/or restaurants would anyone recommend?
3.  In light of increased gay-bashing due to Measure 9, what places
    should I avoid and when should I avoid them?
4.  Is there a gay neighborhood for just walking around, going
    into little stores, and just looking around?

Thanks in advance -- Jim

--
Jim Wood [jwood@siemens.siemens.com] (609) 734-3643
"Rise up on the wings of eagles, and two step among the stars.
 You are not forgotten.  Your smile will echo forever."
   -- Ryerson Schwark, to our friend Rob Bernardo.
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: 7 Oct 92 03:00:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct7.030017.2164
Organization: insert anything here

Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>BBC writes:
>>        Now, I will say this on the idea of suits:  Bears in suits
>>drive me crazy.   I mean we're talking Pavlovian.  It's not the suit
>>or the make and model of the suit, per se... it's the image. 
>>I mean they look like walking Xmas packages waiting to be unwrapped.

>One of the Bears who helps put on the Bear Hug parties in SF
>showed up at one of them some time back in a castoff suit with
>the seams appropriately weakened; one of the more interesting
>not-directly-sexual parts of that evening was helping a couple
>other bears literally rip the suit, dress shirt, and underwear
>off his fuzzy body.  ;-{)##]

	I remember that I was there.  Or at least I was there one time
that that happened.  It was one of the most interesting events in an 
otherwise un-memorable evening.  [Was that kind enough...?]

	Actually that was also the night I met you.  [I would also
put that in the interesting memorable category, since obviously
I did remember it.]

	I almost fainted the day a local very handsome (OK gorgeous)
red bear showed up at my office... and here I had to be good and
talk shop...  Sigh.

BBC
From: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM (Howard Solomon - SunExpress Support Engineer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: 100 years of homosexuality
Date: 9 Oct 92 15:50:48 GMT
Reply-To: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: the-temple.east.sun.com

In article 27034@unocal.com, stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
>
>A book review of a Walt Whitman biography in the NYT reports the word
>"homosexuality" was added to the English language 100 years ago this year.


Sounds like a great excuse for a party!

Howard

---
========================================================================
Howard I. Solomon			|ELECTION '92
Software Support Engineer, SunExpress	|Hold your nose and vote for Bill!
his@east.sun.com			|
=========================================================================
From: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Birthday Greetings (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 02:48:23 GMT
Reply-To: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca

In article <1992Oct8.052505.26438@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)  
writes:
> >>> Today we learned that Greg Parkinson and Arne Adolphson
> >>> graduated high school the same year that I did. 
> If my arithmetic and memory is right, you're all talking about '74.
> That would make Jack and me class of '73, meaning (in the case of
> Cr*m*r only):

Gee, that was the same year I graduated!

From diapers, that is.  ;-)

-Anthony

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 15:23:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.023847.18641@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>are insignificant. That would be stupid. I'm using a different
>definition of the word "icon", one which I think several other people
>use. A media phenomenon.

Right, as the world becomes larger, you need media (newspapers, etc.)
and a notion of self-promotion in that media to act as the vehicle for
such a phenomenon.

>the people in Arne's list that are "icons' to me are
>Oscar Wilde, Jesse James, the Shelleys, Lord Byron, PT Barnum, and
>Walt Whitman.
>Add in Thoreau, and Gertrude Stein, and Emma Goldman, and Nijinsky,
>and.. some painters, too.

Bingo.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Jason Priestley
Date: 13 Oct 92 08:21:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Oct13.082109.26085
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

I think the proper response to any sentence containing "Jason
Priestley" is

"Jason Priestley? SQUEEEAL!" followed by much running around, wringing
of hands, and general excitement.

                __
nelson@reed.edu \/              Death needs time for what it kills to grow in
From: snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Something fishy here in Oregon
Date: 7 Oct 92 09:39:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Oct7.093954.11918
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR


Maybe I missed it but is one of the suspects who killed the two gays
in Salem still on the lose somewhere?  I remember reading in the press
that the police were looking for a third suspect down in Lincoln City.

This double murder occured around the same time as the murder
of the State Trooper in K-falls.  Has the double murder in Salem gotten
as much police help as the K-fall's murder? I mean everyone and their
mothers went searching for the state troupers murderer.  They found him
in several days, in fact he has practically been found guilty (well he
is a hispanic! [a very sarcastic remark on my part to emphasis our
little race problem here in Oregon])

Guess two gay lives could never match up with one straigh life
much less than that of a state trouper.
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Madonna offers haven to Diana
Date: 7 Oct 92 14:51:29 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <7487@charon.cwi.nl> waal@cwi.nl (Peter de Waal)
writes:

>thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:

>>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>>I could even afford a few
>>>scholarships to my special camp here in Madison, I think.

>>So, like, what should all us happy campers pack, anyway?

>Lots of warm clothing and snowboots I guess. Isn't Wisconsin quite
>cold already around this time of year? Jess, couldn't you plan the
>special camp on Hawaii? With all those billions of dollars surely you
>can afford a private island in the Pacific.

Just now it's absolutely perfect here.  Clear, high-pressure
days, fall colors starting to peak, light breeze, 50
degrees, highs about 60.  This is my favorite season, *by
far*, and here I am on my back unable to really get out and
enjoy it.  (Well, in three weeks there *has* been some
improvement in the back problem; I'm almost sitting up now.)

I often hanker for Hawaii when winter gets to month 5, which
is March.  The winters here have been much warmer than usual
for the past 3 years; but the summer was uncommonly cool,
and the meteorology people (hi Sim) across the street say
this one will more in the traditional vein.  '81 was the
corker: more than a week with the *highs* below zero, the
nights in the -20 to -25 range.  But I'd take a cold winter
*any*time over a really hot summer (like '88).

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: max@athena.mit.edu (Max Meredith Vasilatos)
Subject: Re: Culture (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:46:46 GMT

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:

>>Wrote an opera, n'est-ce pas?
>>No exact equivalent in English of "n'est-ce pas", I think. 

>Wrote an opera, right?
>Seems about right, n'est-ce pas?

Only *about* right, no?

Max
max@athena.mit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: elein@Ingres.COM (Taking a trip. Not taking a trip.)
Subject: All Out Comedy
Reply-To: elein@Ingres.COM (Taking a trip. Not taking a trip.)
Organization: Ingres Division, ASK Computer Systems.
Date: 7 Oct 92 22:56:28 GMT

I am unabashedly recommending this video and the fact that
Karen is my most excellent improv teacher has nothing to do
with my uncensored endorsement of this fine product.

This would be great for fundraisers, etc. and it can provide nurturance
for the more gay and lesbian comedy challenged areas of the country.

Karen tells me, that besides being !funny! it is interesting because
she and Tom have been doing comedy for *years and years* and Marilyn
for about half that time (just *years*) and Scott is a relative newcomer.
The styles and venues and cross over points have changed over the years.

Enjoy,

Elein
-------
elein@ingres.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>From the Flyer (more or less)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
THEY have done what no other Gay or Lesbian has every done before:
                    A STAND-UP COMEDY VIDEO

Gay Comedy is not...
                    Swishy Hairdresser jokes
                    Lesbian Truck Driver Jokes
                    Drag Queen Jokes
                    Florist Convention Jokes
Gay Comedy is...
                    Tom Amiano: The Mother of Gay Comedy
                  Karen Ripley: Premenopausal Berkeley homegirl
                 Scott Capurro: Youth obsessed, homoneurotic
               Marilyn Pittman: Stilletto sharp on the delivery.


ALL OUT COMEDY! is 70 hilarious, non-stop minutes of incredible
talent by for of the funniest gay and lesbian comis in America!

ALL OUT COMEDY! features live performances taped at Josie's Caberet and
Juice Joint in San Francisco, the nations' premier spot for gay and
lesbian comedy.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Special Introductory Offer
$19.95 if ordered in advance
($24.95 in stores after Nov. 15)
-----> the fine print: Available after Nov 15, VHS only,
                       shipped UPS Ground only, Gay and Lesbian Produced

YES, I want to be the first on my block to have _______ copies
of "ALL OUT COMEDY" at $19.95 each. (CA residents add $1.70 sales tax)

Send it to _______________________ (put your name and address here)
           _______________________
           _______________________
           _______________________

Make checks payable to: OUT & OUT Productions
                        PO BOX 460910
                        San Francisco, CA.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 17:55:17 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.131539.19573@seq.uncwil.edu> drollin@seq.uncwil.edu (David A. Rollins) writes:
>>Well, I have some ideas, but perhaps someone non-white should speak up.
>
>Well, someone non-white did speak up, Steve. I spoke up, but you only
>cared about what I felt about your character instead of seeing the
>substantive comments made about what Donald had said. I did not agree
>with him nor did I agree with you. 

I meant for whom it was an issue.  You dismissed it, which is fine
as far as it goes.  There are going to be times where being black
and being gay at the same time is a problem, either for the individual
for someone else (like, is this a surprise?)  I don't think you're
responding to this question.

>Personally, I don't look at things from a "this does not relate to me
>on an ethnic level." I think all of that racial-ethnic-social relativity
>is a barrel of crap. Anyone who must have everything spelled out to them
>in some ethnic context that relates to them is missing the whole idea
>of what living in this country is all about. That goes for non-whites, 
>whites, anti-gays, or gays. It is a moot issue.

David, to claim that there are times that ethnicity and culture might
not matter a whole lot is not the same as claiming that it never
matters or that it shouldn't.  As gay people, there are times that
a heterosexual milieu (or the assumption of such) is so suffocating
that you want to scream or _just get out of wherever you are_.  This
doesn't happen often to me, but I do remember one particularly noxious
Xmas party where this was broght home to me strongly.  I'm sure the
same is true at times for Blacks or Jews or any other ethnic group.
Listen, in a month or so, we'll be discussing Jewish feelings of alienation
at the Christmas season.  Are they being "wrong" to feel this way?

>If we keep isolating the people via de facto segregation, we will
>continue to see the resurgence of prejudice and bigotry at random
>groups for a long, long time.

Recognizing differences and diversity (to use the current catchphrases)
is not isolation.

>I am sorry that Donald was insulted. I am sorry that he resorted to
>violence in response to the insult. I am even sorry that I lashed out
>at you in response to what I considered your pomposity, but it helps
>no one if we search for isolated topics of relevance to appease the
>folks who have enclosed themeselves in a cocoon of ethnic or social
>isolation.

It's not so much a matter of our "search" but of being open to
of people who have particular points of view resulting from their
experience, including their ethnicity.  It's a matter of not
dismissing such remarks as "that's Black stuff; take it elsewhere",
and I mean dismissal either explicitly or implicitly.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer