HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lucas@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Huma Dragonbane)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Role Playing in Middle Earth
Date: 4 Sep 92 02:39:01 GMT
Organization: Knights of Solamnia, Order of the Crown

In article <1992Sep2.153907.27021@burrhus.harvard.edu> canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson) writes:
+>	Yes.  This was how Gollum caught fish and Orcs and things,
+>remember?  No problem attacking while wearing a Ring of Power, especially
+>if it's THE Ring of Power!  When you wear one, you are not so much
+>invisible as on the same plane of existance as the Nazgul and other Ring
+>wearers.  I believe Elves also exist on both that plane and the material
+>one.

	Actually, only the Calaquendi (Those Whom Went on the
Journey to Arda) whom have seen the lights of Teleperion and
Laurelion exist on both planes.

	Excuse me but I couldn't help myself! I'm just another
picky Tolkien Scholar!!! :-)
+>>(sheesh, some of my players don't even know what a hobbit is...)
+>	Shocking.  Don't they educate people anymore?

	Very! When I get married, my first child will be named
Frodo!!!!! :-) (NOT!!!)


-- 
Huma of the Lance, Alpha Institute. -- DOMAIN lucas@scicom.alphacdc.com
Order of the Crown  ncar!scicom!lucas --- Huma Dragonbane of Solamnia
"Est Sularis Oth Mithas, My Honor is my Life." --- Old Solamnic Saying
Ah love! What a strange and wonderous thing!!  --- Me on love (and in love!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: dwilson@Ingres.COM (It's up to me.)
Subject: Re: The illogic of draining levels
Summary: 
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Keywords: 
Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Ingres Product Division
Date: 31 Aug 92 23:00:37 GMT

In article <92244.142421JLM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, JLM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU  writes...
>In article <4911@balrog.ctron.com>, cyoung@ctron.com (Chris Young) says:
>>
>>The problem with draining levels is that there is no saving thow.  You're hit,
>>your drained.  There are saves against dragon breath and most spells (of
>>course
>>half damage is sometimes too much anyhow).
> 
> How true ! That's the reason why in over 12 years of gaming/DMing
>I have only used life-draining monsters at most half a dozen times.
> 
> However, since there is no rule that says that the DM has to stick
>to the rules even when he doesn't think that they are right, I have
>given my players a saving roll vs death when hit by any such creatures.
>If they fail their saves, they lose one life level (NOTE: only one life
>level drain per successful hit); if they save then instead of losing a
>life level all they lose is 1d10+6 hit points (I don't want to weaken
>these monsters too much either !)
> 
> To me this seems like a fair way of being able to use these monsters
>without killing half the party within the first five melee rounds.
>I have been satisfied with the results (and so have my players).
> 
>-- Jose L. Martinez --

This is kind of merging thoughts from a couple of posts, but it seems
to me that having the monsters drain levels can still be done...Have 
players roll a save vs. death, with failure meaning permanent loss and 
saving meaning the temporary loss as described previously.  Seems 
reasonable to me (but then again, I have *very* little influence outside
my own head).

Dave Wilson                         Please note that this was written by
Ingres Tech Support                 Dave Wilson the person, not Dave
                                    Wilson the Ingres representative.


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: warren@apple.com (Chris Warren)
Subject: Re: Why are their level limits?
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.dnd
Organization: Taligent.com
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:25:40 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.115554.701@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>,
z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu wrote:
> 
> In article <66993@hydra.gatech.EDU>, ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes:
> 
> [many examples of the silliness of AD&D classes]
> 
> > Notice that all my examples are class-based instead of race-based.  That's
> > because the class restrictions (IMHO) are the most ridiculous of all.
> > But hey, we live with them, in the name of game balance....
> > 
> > 
> 
> 	That might be why I play mainly GURPS now :-)

I was wondering how long it would be until the question of point
based systems vs class based systems would come up.

The main purpose of classes, IMHO, is to foster interdependance of
the memembers of the party and to force players to take on different
roles in the party. This forced differentiation has the drawbacks
described earlier in this thread.  But it can also make it easier
to define the different roles in the party.  In a point based
system such as the Hero system, it is easier to wind up
with a party of characters that are basically similar to one,
two, or if you are lucky, three different basic types.  On the
other hand with a good GM and experienced players, this is
less of a problem.

On the other hand.  Some of TSRs justifications for their class
restrictions and racial restrictions are somewhat contrived. 
IMHO, this probably has more to do with the age and history of the
system than anything else.

As people have mentioned before, there are a number of ways of 
eliminating the racial restrictions.  If someone wanted to
be real clever they could in a point based system such as
champions, build the equivalent packages to the demihumans,
and give them disadvantages such that the cost of the package
is brougt down to zero.  Maybe I'll go off and try this exercise.

The most egregous of the class restrictions can be fixed
but be careful that you don't increase the powerlevel of
a particular class.  If you let mages wear plate mail do something
like at (10-AC) or (10-AC)*2 to their casting time to keep
mages from getting too powerful.  Another good idea, that
someone suggested is to give low level mages bonus spells ala cleric.
You could also let them use light crossbows if they want to spend the
proficiency slots.

If you really have a problem with the D&D classes try something
else like z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu did.

--Chris

PS: this thread (and my post in particular) is probably bordering
on a rec.games.frp.advocacy topic.  So those who wish to argue
the Point Based vs Class Based game systems will find good company
there.
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Paladins
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:40:04 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <BtJuJ2.C4L@news.cso.uiuc.edu> dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly) writes:

>Yes, it is justice. The victim may not be qualified to judge the right or
>wrong of the situation. A rape or spousal abuse victim might blame herself
>for the crime and not want the other person punished. The paladin is trained
>to judge these sort of things, and having the advice of his diety doesn't
>hurt either.

Oh, so in your campaign, the paladin talks to his deity?  Like, on a
daily basis?  Or is it just when he gets into tough situations?  Funny,
'cause I play a cleric and I've never gotten any advice from my deity.
Or any coversation.  Only spells.

>This isn't going to break the paladin's heart. He is concerned with
>his people and his god foremost. Most gods aren't that concerned with
>what you do with outsiders.

Sorry, but I can't consider any god 'good' who would say "be good to
each other, and do whatever the hell you want with people not of
our religion."  Any god who would allow killing, raping, etc of people
just because they worship a different deity is not good in my book.

Besides, some gods actually get along with each other or work together.
What would paladins from these gods do then?


-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | Sign in a restaurant:
Georgia Institute of Technology  | 
Office of Information Technology |   "We reserve the right to serve refuse to
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |        anyone."
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: rnmg1200@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (A Lady and her Walrus)
Subject: Re: Set to talk about Set
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 11:19:17 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.233538.15140@husc3.harvard.edu> alvalent@husc9.harvard.edu (Alvin Valentine) writes:
>I've heard all sorts of bloody variants on Set.  Half portray him as some
>strange lookin' dude with some strange head.  Others portray him with the
>jackal head which I thought belonged to Osiris' right-hand man Anubis, and
>others portray him as some force of evil whose symbol if not head is that of
>the cobra, and he is portrayed with Scorpions and Vipers of all sorts.
> 
>What the heck gives?  Clue on this subject would be appreciated.  Who is the
>god?  What's he look like?  Does he have anything to do with venomous thises
>and thats?

From what I've read on the subject, Set (Also spelled Setekh, with the first
e upside down; the word is pronounced Soo-tek) was originally the patron god
of one of Egypt's major cities.  Remember that Egypt, like so many countries
at that time, was really only a congregation of city-states, under the 
control of a nominal ruler.  Each city had its own deity, and as each city
grew in power and influence, their deity came into prominence in the myths.
Thus Osiris, Ra, Horus and Isis belonged to cities which "won out" over the
others, much as Amon did later (re Tutankh-amon, after the deity Amon).
At one time, the Pharaoh Akhenaton declared there was but one god, his deity
aton (his name, Akhenaton, meant "useful to Aton"), but this ended after his
death and the old gods were reinstated.  Oddly enough, there is evidence
that indicates that the beginnings of Christianity may have occurred during
this period, particularly the Exodus, so it has been conjectured that 
Akhenaton took his "one god" concept from the Christians, or, more unlikely,
gave it to them.

As to where Setekh (Set) fits into all this, he was apparently the chief god
of a major city which, for a time, ruled Egypt.  After falling out of power,
the city's rivals amended the legends to portray Set as an evil god who had
slain Osiris to become chief of the other gods.  Isis, Osiris' wife, was said
to have gathered up the pieces of his body (except the penis, which was
missing) and put him back together again (with a wooden phallus in place of the
missing part), thus restoring the "rightful" monarchy.  Incidentally, this
legend resulted in an annual parade in honor of the god Osiris, which
consisted of people carrying dolls or other effigies of the god, all
replete with a wooden phallus which moved when tugged on by a string.  This
was meant to symbolize his rebirth.  Weird, eh?

Setekh was originally a god of the desert, and probably served to protect 
travellers from the perils of the desert:  snakes, jackals, and scorpions,
all of which have come to be associated with the "evil" Set.  Again, this
is gathered from many sources, so parts may be incorrect (although I know
the legend and the parade are true for certain, having seen it in several
sources).  Any other input would be welcomed.

The Walrus



Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: warren@apple.com (Chris Warren)
Subject: Re: This group needs a specific FAQ.
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.dnd
Organization: Taligent.com
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:13:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.142624.11569@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
cwatters@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Coyt D Watters) wrote:
> 
> 
> We need a FAQ for this group, specific to DnD/ADnD version X.

[stuff deleted]

> I wish I had time to do this...
> 
> If someone out there in net.land would like to attempt this herculean task,
> I think it would be well appreciated.

I did the FAQ for comp.sys.ibm.pc.games and I am willing to help create
and be responsible for posting the FAQ once it is ready.  What
I will do is as follows:

    1) I come up with a list of questions and try to answer
       a few myself.

    2) post this list and solicit input.  This will be everyone's
       opertunity to earn eternal fame [with a credit in the FAQ]
       by contributing to the answers.

    3) update the FAQ.

    4) Iterate on 2 and 3 until we have a FAQ.

This process usually takes about a month.
If you want to see the results of this look at the FAQ for
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.  It also lives on news.answers.
I would plan to post the r.g.frp.dnd FAQ there also.

Cheers
--Chris
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: spzkny@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES ZAKANY)
Subject: Re: Gender in D&D
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 25 Aug 1992 16:32 EST  

In article <ftantlc.harp@netcom.com>, harp@netcom.com
 (Gregory O. Harp) writes...

>>I also have found that those women who ARE interested in roleplaying
>>games tend to discover ROLEplaying much earlier...

>I'd tend to agree with this statement.  I can remember the first game
>I played.  The one female player we had was much more interested in
>setting up the aesthetics and background of her character.

Greg, weasel-lover you!  Actually, I've had BOTH extremes in my campaigns.  
I presently have a woman who's a GREAT role-player.  I've had women who 
would only play 'cause I was there ;+) ... I can honestly say that I 
enjoyed both scenerios!  Still, role-playing is greatly dominated by men.  
I wouldn't say that's because of a difference in ability, but interest.

                                                  James S. Zakany
From: canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Origin of the 2nd ed. Ranger
Date: 31 Aug 92 16:08:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: burrhus.1992Aug31.160806.26642
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

In article <1992Aug29.102224.15207@husc3.harvard.edu> alvalent@husc9.harvard.edu (Alvin Valentine) writes:
>Still.  I'M SURE someone watched this show, or used the same references the
>British producers did , so there must be some heroic tradition for 
>Rangers wielding 2 weapons and wearing leather armor, or the 2nd edition guys
>just got off on the show.  Also, they were probably trying to allow Rangers
>a lesser version of weapon specialization in order to balance out the losses
>to there uniqueness, etc. in 2nd ed.  For this reason we also have the -6
>penalty to tracking for non-Rangers, not just non-Woodsy folk.	

	OK about this 2 weapon thing.  I've been off doing my research and
have some saga references to 2 weapons which I'll post.  Don't refer to
rangers as such, but _does_ demonstrate the use of two-weapon styles in
Medieval times (as opposed to extrapolating from SCA combat which is not
always accuarte, though a good guide).

Cheers,
Carl
From: ads3@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew D. Shults)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: PBEM Game Forming (AD&D2)
Date: 1 Sep 92 21:06:30 GMT
Reply-To: ads3@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew D. Shults)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu




The basics:

   Format: Play-by-E-Mail
   System: AD&D, Second Edition (Including Complete Fighter's,
           Thief's, Priest's, and Wizard's Handbooks)
   Setting: World of Greyhawk (a.k.a. Oerth).  Begins in
            Rookroost in the Bandit Kingdoms
   Level: First level characters
   Type of Game: Emphasis on role-playing and urban adventure
   Plot: Generally follows that of module WG8 (Fate of ...), but
         with numerous modifications.  People who have adventured
         through or read WG8 may not join this party.



     I am currently looking for some people to round out a small
group of adventurers currently consisting of a half-elven ranger,
a half-elven scout, and an dwarven fighter-priest.  I am
especially interested in characters with some depth to them.
Note that although there will be a good bit of emphasis on urban
adventures in this campaign, there should still be enough variety
to keep all kinds of characters happy.
     Interested people should send a brief description of the
character they would like to bring into the group to me
(ads3@po.cwru.edu).  From the results of other postings I've done
to r.g.frp, I know there will not be enough space in the group to
accept all interested people into the party.  Therefore, I will
use both quality of the character (including how well it will fit
with the others in the group)  and promptness of reply in
deciding which characters to bring into this campaign.
     If your character is accepted into the campaign, I'll send
you more information including a character sheet to fill out.  If
you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

   ---Andrew
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: gdg019@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Ridley McIntyre)
Subject: Re: Question Re: Alignments
Organization: Ironpig Arcadia, Coventry, UK
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 10:01:14 GMT

In article <1992Sep02.135848.23100@ecst.csuchico.edu> tdunn@ecst.csuchico.edu (Tim Dunn) writes:
>
>Tammy, I understand that you do not read r.g.f.dnd, but why post an
>article that seems to be relevant to that group to all these other
>ones?  I don't know of any other game aside from D&D and it's knock-
>offs that still use the alignment system, and in light of that, it
>seems to belong solely in r.g.f.dnd.

NOT! Many other fantasy games use alignments as has already been pointed out.

Warhammer uses them, Palladium uses them, so why keep this discussion in D&D?

I personally hate alignments. Though whenever I have had to use them, I always
consider them as an indicator of which side I'm on in the battle between Good
and Evil (Law and Chaos are merely indicators of my loyalty to things, such as
the Party, my Homeland, etc.). If I'm on neither side, I'm neutral, and neutral
to me means Selfish, rather than Undecided. Anything my character does if it's
Neutral, he does because it suits him.

But, I agree with most of the posters here. Alignments do suck as a way of
pigeonholing personality types, especially when some monsters (especially in
AD&D) will only kill people who are of a certain alignment and leave the others
alone, even if they are with them.

-- 
        	 **Ridley McIntyre - Ronin Ironpig**			
		     gdg019@cck.coventry.ac.uk
		 -----------------------------------
     "It'll be a cold night tonight... If it's cold." - Iain Morales
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: GreyOwl@uiuc.edu (GreyOwl)
Subject: Re: Paladins
Organization: UIUC Actuarial Science Program
Reply-To: GreyOwl@uiuc.edu
Keywords: significant words from a document used as an index to content
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 01:02:30 GMT
X-Posted-From: sumter.cso.uiuc.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes:
: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly) writes:

: >Well, you again apply 20th century thinking here. It didn't really matter
: >back in the feudal era if the victim "pressed charges". The criminal broke
: >the law and he was punished, regardless of the victim's views on that.
: 
: Maybe if you have a tyrant for a judge.  A more compassionate, understanding
: lord (which a paladin should be) would grant them mercy.

I think it would depend on the deity the Paladin serves.  IMO, the paladin
should emulate hir deity.  A paladin serving a "my way or no way" deity
should behave in a harsh manner, with a strict code of ethics.  If it
were a kindler, gentler god(dess), the paladin should behave as you describe.

Of course, your mileage may vary.
--
Michael Adams (aka GreyOwl)
+1 (217) 344-0709, +1 (217) 344-4857
GreyOwl@uiuc.edu (NeXT mail accepted)
wi.5467@wizvax.methuen.ma.us (anon mail)
FREE1217@UIUCVMD.bitnet (bitnet mail
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: pyr530@oz.plymouth.edu (Rob Holden)
Subject: Re: A new version of Familiars
Reply-To: pyr530@oz.plymouth.edu (Rob Holden)
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, N.H.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 03:55:38 GMT

	I liked the idea on the "new" familiars that Morpheus suggested, but
obviously it cannot be a first level spell.  I would make it a 5th or 6th level
spell, and rename it to Summon Familiar.

	I also think that there will be alot of griping by the mage-haters out
there, who will insist that mages are too powerful already and don't need any
more.  However, if the spell is made to be 5th level, then it cannot be gotten
except by a 9th level mage (or higher), and if 6th, then by a 12th level mage
minimum.  Also, it's not like this spell is going to be just laying around in 
scroll form in every other dungeon the party enters.  I would try to introduce
it by having the party find the diary of a mage (perhaps long dead) that had 
such a familiar, and if the mage is interested and can convince the rest of
the party to assist him, I would then try to build a quest around it.  It would
be a long, involved quest, at least equal to, and probably a good deal more
involved than a paladin's quest for his mount.  But then, that's just my $.02.


					Rob

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: cwatters@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Coyt D Watters)
Subject: Re: Why are their level limits?
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Keywords: because
Reply-To: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:06:45 GMT

If you want to play a game with skills instead of classes 
don't play xDNDn.  Quit whining about it and buy GURPS or 
RoleMaster or some other such.

In a skill based system you CAN have a character who is a magic-using, lock-
picking, ass-kicking, ghod-serving character.  In xDNDn the character would
have to be multiclassed or quadrupleclassed, but advancement for such a
character should be slower than for a specialist.  The class system is
just a "prefession" system.  I am a computer scientist by training, and
a developer of clinical applications by experience.  I know more about the 
needs of a computerized clinical information system than the average 
programmer.  Could the "unexperienced programmer" do what I do?  You bet,
but they'd be slower, less efficient and more prone to mistakes.  A
dabbler in several fields never becomes the master of a single field without
sacrificing something.

RL situation:  The US National Guard.  They "train" the same as the 
normal military, but don't have the same mindset.  When Operation Desert
Shield/Storm came along, with the widespread activation of the Guard,
the guard was often the weakest link in the organization.  The
"specialists", i.e. career military is more effective and efficient
than the "dabblers", no matter how good the training of the dabbler.

We all know the limitations of a class-based system.  You can still have
fun playing it - that's why xDNDn is the top selling system.  If you 
decide that you need a little more "realism" in a game - change games!

Please note that this is now a flame fest, and the followups and 
replies are directed to .advocacy.

-Coyt


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd