HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Is it just me?
Date: 11 Nov 1992 19:15:51 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

...or does it seem to anyone else that the Academy for Loudmouth Adolescent 
Martial Artists has recently had a graduation?

All of a sudden, it seems like this group has been inundated with abrasive
"know-it-alls", e.g.:

In article <1992Nov11.124858.931@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> y41@aix320a.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (Jeffrey Hazelwood) writes:
>Ok folks pay attention.  
>Anyone claiming to be a tenth Dan is most likely full of shit. 

It almost makes me appreciate Marty the Ninja Master.



-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
From: princecr@mala.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Stretching
Date: 5 Nov 92 10:17:26 -0700
Organization: Malaspina College

>  
>      I stretch in the morning before I do anything, I stretch 
> again before every workout (once at the very beginning and then 
> again after running about half a mile) and after the workout.  I 
> really should stretch before I go to sleep, but I don't 'cuz I'm a 
> lazy bum.  :-)
>  
>      As for how long, one my sensei once told me that a stretch is 
> useless unless sustained for at least 20 seconds.  I've taken this 
> to heart, but don't really know how accurate it is.  Works okay so 
> far.
>  
>      I stop when it's obvious that the stretch isn't going to do 
> me any more good..  Knowing is something that comes with 
> experience.  I've also noticed that I tend to stretch alot more 
> (half an hour as opposed to ten minutes) than most people, which 
> either makes me a stretching freak who shouldn't be taking up 
> bandwidth or the only one doing it right..
>  
>      What do the rest of you think?
>  
	You should read a book called Stretching Scientificly by a former east
block olympic judo coach.  It was advertised in BB magizine a while ago (the
guy with a leg on each chair and a girl on each leg).  It's a really good book.

chris.
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Is it just me?
Date: 11 Nov 1992 13:31 PST
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1drm57INN8fd@agate.berkeley.edu>, robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU 
(Michael Robinson) writes...
>....or does it seem to anyone else that the Academy for Loudmouth Adolescent 
>Martial Artists has recently had a graduation?

On the other hand, there are postings such as Robert Stroud's kendo
followup (it showed up here a couple before yours) which indicate that
there *may* be hope for humanity in general and the net in particular.

Must admit, though, that I'm kinda glad we seem to have dispensed
with "my sensei can beat up your sensei."

Reading netnews is like eating lunch in the park:  you learn that it's
no use screaming and running around and waving your arms at the pigeons,
so you just carry a hanky.

Cheers,
--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: hurd@fraser.sfu.ca (Peter L. Hurd)
Subject: Re: 10th Dan
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 22:12:36 GMT

mark@onyx.kiwi.gen.nz (Mark Goldie) writes:

>I have been told that the rank of 10th dan is not held by anyone in the
>world and has not been for 100's of years, as my instructor is 5th dan
>and the Kancho-Sensei of Chidokan is 7th dan, I find it difficult to accept
>that there is not someone out of 3 billion people who hold a rank three
>grades higher. 
> 
> Mark (Only Sankyu but I'm getting there)

Could it be sheer timing, if MA practitioners arn't starting until they
are older than tey used to be way back when.
I say this because I gather that in my style one has to wait the number of
years of the current dan after the last successful grading before grading
again.  So 5th to 7th dan would require 11 years, supposing all gradings
were passed, add on another 8 years, and another 9 after that, and you
need to stay in good shape to make it to 10th dan, no matter how hot a
5th dan you are.
I asked a question of an 8th dan about a kick combination, and he had to
answer it with his other leg leading since he couldn't do a front snap kick
anymore with his left leg.  Even if he was good enough, whatever that
means at this level, to be 10th dan when he was 5th, would he still be
that good, years later?  I can see why kumite isn't on the grading
syllabus at higher levels, everyone knows that you are a hot karateka,
but how well do you teach others, and how do you preserve and advance
your MA become more important questions.
-- 
Pete Hurd, hurd@sfu.ca|
Behavioural Ecology   |
Dept.Biol.Sci., SFU.  |
Burnaby B.C., Canada  |"As miserable as ever" replied the enlightend Kyogen.
From: twcaps@tennyson.lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Iron Palm Training
Date: 13 Nov 92 05:52:15 GMT
Reply-To: TWChan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
Organization: Department of Redundancy Department
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.117

glo@dvlseq.us.oracle.com (George Lo) writes:
  
  +My Shifu has taught a few students but he wouldn't teach just anyone.
  +One has to learn from my shifu for a period of time so that my shifu
  +knows him better.  And he has to open a school.  Then my shifu would
  +probably teach him.

Sounds like a great guy.


Terry
--
Energy and Environment Division   | Internet:  TWChan@lbl.gov
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory      | 
Berkeley, California  USA  94720  | Carpe Per Diem
From: rob@austin.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Iron Palm Training
Keywords: Iron Palm, Conditioning
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:22:55 GMT
Organization: IBM Austin
Originator: @woodyw.austin.ibm.com


If anyone has any information on Iron Palm Training ie back issues
of magazines, books, seminars, or legitimate instructors in the USA
please post the information in a followup article.

Thanks
From: mnoell@reed.edu (Matthew Max Noell)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Old fogey fighters
Date: 13 Nov 92 01:21:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov13.012103.28652
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Nov11.193047.18282@zip.eecs.umich.edu> lauren@quip.eecs.umich.ed
u (Brian T. Murray) writes:
>3.   Presumably, a 70 year old person, in great physical shape, who
>     has been studying martial arts for 50-60 years must be a
>     formidable adversary.

	I realize this is only peripherally related but. . .  in bike racing
the times that the racers are posting in the 'Masters' category are incredible.
To say that there are seventy and eighty year old men 'who could whoop a young
guy' is not to exagerrate in the least (for cycling I mean).  Of course in bike 
 racing we don't hit each other on purpose.

Max
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: test
From: spang@calstatela.edu (Sue Pang 10-16-91)
Date: 6 Nov 92 12:32:56 PST
Reply-To: spang@calstatela.edu
Distribution: world
Organization: Cal State University, Los Angeles



Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Knife-fight in "Under Siege"
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 20:11:17 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.215850.8809@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs922096@ariel.yorku.ca (JOSE J. MONTANO) writes:
>
>      Whoever saw the latest Steven Seagal film......
>
>      That knife fight at the end between Seagal and Tommy Lee Jones was pretty
>exciting to watch.  I had never seen that type of combat before.  Can anyone tell 
>me if this type of knife combat is taught only to Special Forces like SEALs,
>Green Berets, or SAS?  Anyone else think that scene was cool???
>
	Well, I thought the movie was basically OK, but that knife fight
	between Seagal and Jones was quite a disappointment from the
	standpoint of reality checks, but hell, it's only a movie.

	-Andy V.

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: Frank@mindlink.bc.ca (Frank I. Reiter)
Subject: Beginner's questions about Chi
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:43:46 GMT

A couple months ago I began to study tai chi and as my interest grew I began
doing research outside of the classes as well.  From what I've read it seems
to me that without chi, there is no tai chi.  Accordingly I am concentrating
on learning about chi and related concepts.  I hope some of you will take a
moment to answer a few very basic questions:

1) Chi seems most often to be translated as "Energy".  From what I've read,
"Life force" seems to be another apt translation.  Would you agree with that?

2) There is much talk about how chi flows - is it someimes also static or is
it always in motion?

3) I have read references to "Generating chi".  Does this mean that chi can
be created or is "Generating chi" really refering to "Generating a flow of
chi" ?

4) I am studying a combined Wu/Yang style of tai chi.  I understand that Yang
style is most popular and Wu is popular also, but I haven't seen any
references to the combined style outside of my classes.  Is it uncommon?

Thanks in advance to anyone able to help.

Frank.
--
___________________________________________________________________
Frank I. Reiter                 Internet: Frank@mindlink.bc.ca
MIND LINK! Communications Corp. Surrey, British Columbia, Canada
From: gsinghma@reed.edu (Gaurav Singhmar)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Test Ordeals
Date: 8 Nov 92 23:40:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov8.234033.29964
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR


In Uechi-ryu, I remember being told of the black belt test. After some  
four years of training three days (seven or eight hours sum) a week, most  
could achieve black-belt. It seemed like a fairly long time, but the mind  
could fathom it. Some five hundred hours of Sanchin; legions of beautiful  
mammoth bruises suffered on forearms, legs, stomach, during conditioning;  
things like that, all very unpleaseant, but certainly manageable. And  
then, the shodan test, which seemed quite brutal in its length (some four  
or five hours I hear) and in the hard (HARD) strikes to various parts of  
the body, to test if Sanchin could be held. It wasn't something that I  
would have been upto at Nikkyu, but I could well imagine it.

Now, in Portland, I saw a Mo Duk Pi orange sash test. It was five hours  
long. Very long, I thought, look at those drenched t-shirts, that wet  
floor, those failing bodies. I then hear that the black sash test (a rank  
which typically takes ten years or so to attain) takes more than 11 hours  
to complete! What? For eleven hours, no one leaves the training floor, no  
one eats, no one rests. If you're not demonstrating, you're sunk into deep  
horse stance. My God, no way, I think.

Then yesterday, I learn, that a local style of Poekoelan (Tjimande Tulen)  
has a black belt test 48 hours in length. There is no break, no sleep,  
nothing.

Sometime ago (don't remember where or when or from who - could have been  
drunk, or dosing, or even dreaming) I recall being told that some Chinese  
styling had a master level test a week in length. The man was to be in a  
circle for that time, and whenever someone chose, they could attack him  
(don't know if weapons were permitted, though). Sounded like The Last  
Temptation of Christ. At the time I thought it was so completely bogus.  
Now I don't quite know.

Does somebody know, are these myths or what? Has anyone (legends,  
teachers, friends, children) actually been through them?

- gaurav
gsinghma@reed.edu

"The President scores much better than Bill Clinton"
   -- Vice President Dan Quayle, comparing Bush's record of marital  
infidelity to Clinton's
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: What it is with internal styles
Date: 5 Nov 1992 21:48:33 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Nov05.143044.1057@srg.srg.af.mil> schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485) writes:
>[Path of least resistance litany...]
>
>	By the way, does what I say make sense to the other internal stylists
>out there?

Speaking from my own experience, all that sounds just fine until the first 
few times you "feel" an opponent's attack while the idea for it is still being
formed, or you manage to "take control" of an opponent's body and make them do
something they are mentally resisting.

At that point, you become much less sure of what is really going on.

>I keep throwing this stuff out to the net so that people can tell me
>if it sounds reasonable to them (seems reasonable to me).

Right now, I'm pretty sure I don't understand what makes internal arts 
actually work.  I have a pretty good idea, though, that when I do, it isn't 
going to be something "reasonable".


-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: spang@calstatela.edu (Sue Pang 10-16-91)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Jujitsu
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:35:30 GMT
Reply-To: spang@calstatela.edu
Organization: Cal State University, Los Angeles

Grandmaster Dr. Fried teaches Jujitsu at CSULA.  I was wondering if anyone practice Jujistu or Karate-Jitsu?

Thanks,
Sue
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: knife techniques
Keywords: knife, techniques
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 06:36:05 GMT

In article <1d9qn9INNpt9@bigboote.WPI.EDU> scollins@wpi.WPI.EDU (Suppasak Collins) writes:
>If you've read THE FILIPINO MARTIAL ARTS by Dan Inosanto, he stated that it's
>almost impossible to counter a knife fighter unless you're armed with some sort
>of weapon yourself.

My impression was that filipino martial arts include the best knife fighting
styles around. While I doubt an unarmed person could handle a good
filipino knife fighter, I'm also not sure how much this really says:
The average street knife fighter will not be nearly that good.

                                                  Frank Crary
                                                  CU Boulder
From: shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: re: Time for belts/knife techniques
Date: 9 Nov 1992 18:40:46 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: galaxy.think.com

In article <9NOV199210204090@zeus.tamu.edu>, khc2674@zeus.tamu.edu (Bruce as my Shepherd) writes:
|> 
|> A person I know told me this story.
|> A coworker of his had told him he was a Tae Kwon Do Instructor, to which this
|> guy responded "ahh, Korean ballet" The TKD BB did not take this well. He asked
|> the fellow to attack him with a knife so as to demonstrate his badassedness to 
|> this person whom I know. This person whom I know lunged turned the knife around
|> blade against the forearm and had it against the BB's throat.
|> 
|> The point of this post is whether anyone trains against a knife held in that 
|> manner.

First of all, the basic trick to defending against a knife
is positioning your body correctly.  As long as you have room
to maneuver, you can defend successfully.  It makes little
difference insofar as the knife is held.

If I assume that you have been trapped by a knife wielder from behind
then there is only one position that I know of which leaves little
chance for a successful escape.  Note that in a successful escape
your throat/face/ear might be slashed, however the injuries received
should not prove fatal if treated properly within a reasonable time.
From: tk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tommy Kelly)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Hokum-Zenkum (was Re: Black Belt time)
Date: 11 Nov 92 11:44:13 GMT
Reply-To: tk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tommy Kelly)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <1992Nov8.083605.3243@gagme.chi.il.us] phantom@gagme.chi.il.us (Leif Ericksen) writes:
]
]A young boy traveled across Japan to the school of a famous martial artist. 
]When he arrived at the dojo  he was givien an audience by the sensei.
]...
]	"The answer is clear.  When one eye is fixed upon your destination, 
]there is only one eye left with which to find the Way."
]			- ANONYMOUS
]	A little proverb from Zen in the Martial arts by Joe Hyams

The word "jobbies" comes to mind...

tk
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mhirsch@volkl.princeton.edu (Michael Hirsch)
Subject: Model Muggin article in New York Times
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:43:16 GMT

For those interested in reading about Model Mugging, there is fairly
long article in the Metro section of today's (Wed, Nov. 11) New York
Times.

Unlike most articles it does not concentrate on the students and why
they are there, or on the techniques, but rather it tells about it
from the point of view of the (model) mugger.  It talks alot about the
cognitive dissonance felt by one such person.  He does it cause he
wants to help these people, but the way he helps is by trying to hurt
them...

Usually there is more than one mugger in class.  He said he finds
himself thinking "The other guy made her cry last time he attacked
her and I didn't.  Maybe I'm not being men enough."  That must be
really bizarre.  I don't think I could handle this.

It was interesting reading.  Joe Bob says "Check it out."
--


Michael D. Hirsch		mhirsch@cs.princeton.edu    
Computer Science Department	Voice: (609) 258-1751       
Princeton NJ, 08544		FAX:   (609) 258-1771
From: princecr@mala.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Arrow proof? Re: Bullet Proof Vests
Date: 5 Nov 92 10:24:59 -0700
Organization: Malaspina College

> |> >Never having done this, I can't say for sure, but I'd imagine thrusting
> |> >a blade into something while on a charging horse would probably be a Bad
> |> 
> |> 	But that's exactly what lancers did.
> 
> So what did they do when they hit the target with the lance.  I sure the
> lance got stuck.  It seems to me that lances would be more of a
> dueling weapon than a combat weapon.  The former case you only had to
> worry about one opponent.  If a successful strike meant you lost your
> weapon it is no problem.  In combat you would not want to need to stop
> and retrieve your weapon everytime you connected.
> 
A proporly build lance shatters after impact so as to not get caught up on the
lancer, but still injure the lancee.

chris.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Hey!
From: shadow@netlink.cts.com (Kirpal Sukumar)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 17:02:42 PST
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

I like to watch Steven Seagal, just because I happen to like aikido

And yes he is a grouchy dude, but that's all in character.

--                    
INTERNET:  shadow@netlink.cts.com (Kirpal Sukumar)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!shadow
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
From: krause@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Mike Krause)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Flail legality
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:08:52 GMT
Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA

/ hpindda:rec.martial-arts / joan@koala.berkeley.edu () /  5:20 pm  Nov  6, 1992 /

>I planted a small patch of wheat in my garden this year and now after
>having threshed it with a stick, I am thinking of making a flail for
>next year.  I understand that a nunchaku is a flail and is illegal
>in California.  I can't say I am really worried that if I connect
>two sticks together with cord that I would be arrested, but I would
>like to know if anyone has information on the subject.
>
>What is the penalty for nunchaku-like martial arts weapons in Calif.?
Is that for carry or for posession?
>Although a nunchaku is a flail, are flails considered nunchaku?
>What is the name of that flail with one stick larger than the other?
>
>After having threshed with a stick, the flail would be a great improve
>ment because (a) it would relieve the impact on my wrist  (b) I think
>I could strike with more force.
----------
Well, having been told that my three-sectional staff qualified as a 
nunchak by a police officer with his hand on his gun standing behind
his car and making me set it down while 50 ft. away, I think being
arrested is a strong possibility.  It is a felony to carry one except
in the context of going to or from a martial arts event/training area.
One cannot have it concealed, etc. or have it in easy reach to be used.
One may own or possess one for training purposes, etc.  Felony convictions
are not something you want on your record since you can do jail time and
may loose some rights along the way.
From: bp652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gil W. Lau)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Martial arts for children - what age?
Date: 6 Nov 1992 03:00:12 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bp652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gil W. Lau)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) says:

>	a good time of it.
>  Generally, I think it is OK for any child from 
>	about 4 on up, but they must WANT to do it.  And if they lose interest
>	at so young an age, I don't think they should be forced to continue.
>
I am currently in charge of a beginner's Isshinryu class where two of
my students are too young to learn karate.  I say this because they have
no clue about what karate is.  At least the older kids think that karate is
used to kick butt.  This is wrong, but at least there is a starting point.
Actually, I think their parents signed them up for the class without telling
the kids what's going on.  They have no interest in karate, and it shows.

>	Also I think MA for the very young should be done more in the spirit
>	of light hearted play than in serious self defense.

I agree.  Like I said, these kids don't have an inkling about what martial
arts are about, and don't have the attention span when someone is trying
to teach them about it.


My personal feeling is that a grappling art is easier to teach to the
very young than a striking art.  The two kids will pay attention when
I go into wristlock techniques and other self-defense, but when I'm
trying to get them try some blocks, the moment I turn my back they're
doing WWF wrestling.  *sigh*

Kids can certainly learn the concepts of the philosophical side of
martial arts, but don't expect them to understand the physical aspect
of it and what it can be used for.  They would benefit the most if
they were enrolled in a kids' only class (which mine is not  :|  ).

  -- Gil
From: simutis@Ingres.COM (John Simutis)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Family trees
Keywords: Okinawan styles, founders, dates
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:24:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: pony.1992Nov5.212441.21262
Reply-To: simutis@Ingres.COM (John Simutis)
Organization: Ingres Division, ASK Computer Systems.

I have recently become more interested in the interrelationships
between styles/schools/ryus of Okinawan karate.  I have saved some
nice posts that are helpful about individual styles.  Can someone
recommend a book that gives a kind of "family tree" of most of
the Okinawan styles?  Something in print would be nice - I don't get
to haunt bookstores as much as I'd like...

Thanks.

-- 
--------
< standard disclaimer >
                          INGRES, an ASK Company
John Simutis, simutis@ingres.com         Alms!  Alms for the vi-impaired!
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: erlingp@stud.cs.uit.no (Erling Paulsen)
Subject: Re: Badass Karate (-Do?)
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:47:43 GMT

The strongest Martil Art is done by the strongest Martial Artist..
OUS..

Sempai Erling Paulsen, Kyokushinkai