HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hayward@biblio.ucs.sfu.ca (Michael Hayward)
Subject: Re: Censorship
Reply-To: hayward@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:47:22 GMT

In article <C1FHLs.3wo@fc.hp.com> daq@fc.hp.com (Doug Quarnstrom) writes:
> Laurie Mann (lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com) wrote:
> : Doug Quarnstrom writes
> : >I am curious.  When was the last time the US banned a book?
> : >
> : >Is there any literature out there that discusses the history
> : >of censorship in the US, particularly within the last 50 years or so?
> : 
> : I don't think the US as a nation has censored a book since, maybe, the  
'30s.
> : Maybe earlier.  James Joyce's book Ulysses had all kinds of problems
> : being published here back in the '20s.
> 
> I was aware of Ulysses.  Naked Lunch was also banned, right?  When
> was that published?
> 
> doug

Burroughs' "Naked Lunch" was first published in book form by Olympia Press in  
Paris, in 1959 (interestingly, fellow Beat Lawrence Ferlinghetti at City Lights  
Books had previously turned it down, calling it "disgusting"). The first US  
publication of "Naked Lunch" was by Grove in 1962, and yes, there were legal  
battles fought over that due to its allegedly obscene nature.

Allen Ginsberg's "Howl" was published by City Lights in 1956, and is another  
post-Ulysses book ban. Obscenity charges were brought against the City Lights  
bookstore for selling obscene literature, and Lawrence Ferlinghetti seems to  
have used the controversy very effectively as a marketing device: 10,000 copies  
of the book had been published by the end of the "Howl" trial (I believe that  
there was an entire book devoted to the trial - check your library, since I  
doubt that it is still in print). Ferlinghetti's biographer says of "Howl" that  
"the trial ensured its financial success, and as a result, the future success  
of City Lights Books as a publisher"

..Michael Hayward		hayward@sfu.ca

P.S: I believe that Henry Miller's "Tropic of Capricorn" was another  
post-Ulysses book ban. And I'm sure that there have been other, more recent  
attempts too...
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: New ideas on SF -or- Confessions of an pulp reader
Date: 21 Jan 1993 17:19 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

John Henders writes...

>	Dick and Vonnegut wrote many novels. Is it now your assertion that
>one exception is enough to have us totally ignore the rest of their
>work? Two? How many does it take?

+----------------------------------------SubG---------------------------------+
A)  Consider the Asimov excerpt I posted earlier, and his argument that
    Ray Bradbury isn't a science fiction writer.
B)  Exactly what are those science fiction novels that Vonnegut has written?
    _Slaughterhouse Five_?  Science fiction because it contains aliens, right?
    Is the existence of Trafmadorians (spell it yerself) scientific
    extrapolation?
+----------------------------------------SubG---------------------------------+

>	There's a great French restaurant down the street from where I live.
>Sadly, it's not as well known as McDonalds. What's your point?

+----------------------------------------SubG---------------------------------+
I think it would therefore be safe to say that McD's is a much more influential
restaurant than the French one.  Of course, here your analogy breaks down,
as the importance is not of the McD's on your streetcorner, but the 19
skillion other ones everywhere.









-SubG



Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26169 sci.math:18708
From: ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,sci.math
Subject: Re: Literary mathematicians (was Re: seeking recommendations for books in German)
Keywords: Leo Perutz, Felix Hausdorff
Date: 24 Jan 93 17:46:16 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana


  A translation of St Peter's Snow, and I think of other books by
Perutz as well, has been published a few years ago.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.written,rec.answers,news.answers
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Ancient History Novels
From: dvalent@husc10.harvard.edu (Daniel Valentine)
Date: 23 Jan 93 22:00:09 GMT

I'm not sure just how much older you meant, but how about 
_The_Clan_of_the_Cave_Bear_ and its sequels?

Dan Valentine

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.president.clinton
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Subject: Re: Maya Angelou inaugural poem
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:38:02 GMT

In article <C178qM.MJF@olsen.ch> lindy@olsen.ch (Lindy Foster) writes:
>I found Maya Angelou's inaugural poem both moving and beautiful.  Does
>anyone know where I can get a copy of the text?  Thanks,
>
>			*lindy*
>
  Ditto!



-- 
"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
			-Joseph Beam_
Terrance Heath 
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26184 talk.politics.soviet:10687 soc.culture.soviet:12355 soc.culture.jewish:26021
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: People Who Don't Like Arkansas
Date: 23 Jan 1993 13:35:16 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I like Arkansas (at least the part I was in whilst mapping
paleo-Indian rock shelters). There is a body of vernacular
humor that my granddaddy had that was published around the
turn of the century that is quite funny (if you appreciate
the humor of other "cultures". 
  One of the titles is:
  ON A SLOW TRAIN THROUGH ARKANSAS. This is from the same
publisher who brought us THROUGH MISSOURI ON A MULE.
  I also recall a wonderful shaggy dog story that a folklorist
friend of mine would tell after an appropriate amount of
zymurgic urging called FROM HELL TO ARKANSAW. It may be in
one of BA Botkin or Bernadr De Voto's ouvre.
  And last but not least, there's Vance Randolph, who has
enraged bluenoses all over the country for his rather salty
Ozark folk stories. i.e PISSING IN THE SNOW (AND OTHER OZARK
TALES)......
  Yeehaugh!
-- 
Ted....
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.written,rec.answers,news.answers
From: ndrose@husc8.harvard.edu (Nathan Rose)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Paradise Lost
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:04:09 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

There's a slim volume by C.S.Lewis called A Preface to Paradise Lost. That's
the place to start.

Maybe also Douglas Bush's introduction to his edition of Milton for
Oxford U.P.

Nathan Rose
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.poems
From: wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith)
Subject: Re: New prize
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 15:48:05 GMT

Tom Maddox writes:

	Might I suggest the afternoon of Saturday, Feb. 6?  




Alas, my two remaining Saturdays in the Bay Area are already 
committed.  Feb 6 I'll be whale watching somewhere at sea.


I could possibly slip away for a couple of hours this coming Saturday,
Jan 30, if the award ceremony were scheduled then.



William Sburgfort Smith
Intel, SSD
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: For Thine is the kingdom
Date: 24 Jan 1993 04:08:02 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

I commented on the "which art"/"who art" CofE/RC litmus test in
England, and I forgot to mention the obvious bookish connection.
The "which art" boyos, those of the Established Church, also use
the epilogue, "For Thine is the Kingdom, &c.", whereas their Papist
cousins leave it out. It has always seemed curious to me that Graham 
Greene would use the last five words of that epilogue for a title 
for one of his novels. Very confusing. It is as though he were saying 
"Since you are a Roman Catholic, for you there is no Kingdon, no Power, 
no Glory."

					RABworm
From: tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Edukation
Date: 23 Jan 93 19:33:03 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)

In article <14036@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>In article <1jjdp4INNobm@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel) writes:
>> 
>> Well, I did say what I said. Nothing like dealing with "education
>> types". I had just recieved a call from my daughter's school
>> telling me that doing a book report on Orwell's 1984 was not was
>> NOT appropriate. I told them that the same thing happened to me
>> in the 7th grade (1962 or thereabouts). It's still up in the air.
>>   History repeats itself. Akk akk!!

>Doubtless, some teacher is terrified that your daughter will
>read _1984_ and learn something from it.  After all, how can
>liberal ideology (e.g., Steve Pope's view of the proper role
>of the state and parents) survive if too many people read
>subversive books like _1984_?

	As a junior in high school, I was told umph years ago that I could 
not hand in my book report on _1984_, not by a liberal (even given C.C.'s
paranoid-schizophrenic use of the word) but by a blue-haired Baptist lady
from West Virginia.

-- 
				Tom Maddox
		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
	"That's a bird bone chair, Bob.  I don't know if I should sit there."
				Tom Waits
From: rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Ancient History Novels
Date: 23 Jan 1993 12:02:21 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
NNTP-Posting-Host: cyclops.eece.unm.edu

>> GE.SPM@forsythe.stanford.edu (Suzanne Mills) writes:
>>...novels about Alexander the Great...
>
>	And don't forget the real thing, or as close as
>	you'll get anyway -- Arrian's History of Alexander
>	is great fun and excellent reading.
>

	And I meant to add -- especially when read in conjunction
	with a good picture book like _In Search of Alexander_.

>>Suzanne

rms
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.president.clinton
From: pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce)
Subject: Re: Maya Angelou inaugural poem
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 21:30:24 GMT

Would someone please summarize what Angelou is trying to say
in this poem? Thank you.

Also, is her style of oral presentation a standard one? It struck
me as dull and emotionless. (But what do I know about poetry
reading?)

-- Brad Pierce --

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.conspiracy
From: mss2e@Virginia.EDU ("The Nerve-Ending Fairy")
Subject: Re: 33, 19, 17 (Where are you going, Where have you been?)
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:46:11 GMT

They add up to 69, dude.
	Try taking the letter Rs out of Arnold's name.
	Remember the fly on the wall that would disrupt her
talks with her mother.  That's Beezebul, Lord of the Flies.

		Mick Stone
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: marcy@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca (Marcy Thompson)
Subject: Re: Biggest Disappointments? (was worst novel ever)
Keywords: something new?
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Surrey, British Columbia, CANADA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:35:42 GMT

The biggest disappointments for me have been:

Contemporary Books division:

1. The World According to Garp

2. Lucky Jim

3. The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy 


Classics division:

1. To the Lighthouse

2. A Tale of Two Cities

3. Tess of the d'Urbervilles 
 

In a recent rec.arts.books article, Tommy Che Vorst wrote:

>I would also like to propose a (new?) thread, along the same lines:  What
>are some of the most pleasant surprises you've had?  (That is, books you 
>started with serious reservations (at least), but ended up becoming
>(almost?) favourites.)

1. Orlando Furioso

2. Pilgrim's Progress

3. Molly Ivins Can't Say That, Can She? 

4. Their Eyes Were Watching God

Marcy

-- 

Marcy Thompson		
  SoftQuad (West)			
    marcy@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca (preferred) or marcy@sq.com
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:25885 alt.president.clinton:1666
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: RE: Buried Treasure -or- So, whaddaya use for bookmarks?
Date: 25 Jan 93 21:22:03 GMT
Organization: Clark University

Susanna wrote:

>Trade ya three Palmers for the Ryan.  The cards are in pretty good
>condition, I only drooled on them a little.

Silly, that's why you're supposed to put them in plastic sleeves!!

I dunno, I have a lot of Palmers already, but if you tell me where you
got that lovely whip, I'll think about it.

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster)
Subject: Re: People Who Don't Like Arkansas
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 03:28:42 GMT

I didn't see the first posting in this thread, but the subject heading
is sufficiently arresting I feel I should say *something*, even if it
doesn't have anything to do with books.  I do agree with Ted's recommenda-
tions about Arkansan reading material.  I want to go on record as
being a real person who actually lived and worked in Arkansas, and who
went through the whole cycle of going from "Oh my god, what the hell
kinda situation have I gotten myself into?!!" to the way I felt when
I moved away (for reasons having nothing to do with Arkansas), which is
that it's a very weird, magical, backwards, exasperating, enchanting,
hard-to-get-to-know place.  And that it has a culture unlike any other
state I've ever heard of.  It's kind of like a foreign country: you'd
have to live there a long time before you really understood the place.

It's the kind of place you want to take a piece of with you, when you
go--which I have done, quite literally, because as I write now, I'm
surrounded by about 100 pounds of the state of Arkansas, in the form
of huge clusters of quartz--mostly milky white, but some purple
(amethyst), and some with moss-green manganese inclusions.

					--grounded,

						Fiona
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: More sf babble -or- SubG sez, `I have spoken.'
Date: 22 Jan 1993 13:04 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    


Mucking about with some hydrology earlier today, it occured to me that
the problem we (the valiant if sometimes addlepated defenders of science
fiction and my usufructious and usquebaughious (that is to say, addlepated)
self) have had is a fairly simple one:

My opponents wish to adopt a deterministic system of literary classification
whereas I am inclined to use a stochastic system.

Therefore, in their eyes, failure to present a hard definition of science
fiction precludes the reaching of any conclusion on science fiction.
In a deterministic system, you can only solve the problem if you have more
equations than unknowns;  failure to obtain one definition is failure to
solve the problem.

Conversely, in the stochastic approach we don't have to know all the `hidden
rules' the equations explain;  we can solve the problem by empirical
observation and theorization followed by further observation, u.s.w.  In
fact, this is how we arrive at most of our definitions and derive most of
our equations.

I put it to you (or, in Texan, y'all) that the latter approach is far
better suited to discussion of literature (or at least science fiction), as
I don't think anyone has the perfect knowledge that is nearly a prerequisite
of a deterministic approach (I certainly do not, and I strongly suspect that
my colleagues are similarly disadvantaged).

Next time:  The Monte Carlo fallacy and `sci-fi' cover art.








Yours etc.,




SubGenius
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: origin of a quote
From: chbaumga@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu (Chris Baumgartner)
Date: 21 Jan 93 12:43:08 EST


Can anyone tell me who said this:

           "The world will only truly be free when the last king
            is strangled in the entrails of the last priest"  

I was told that it was probably Voltaire, also
what book (if any) was it from? Thanks
--
 Chris Baumgartner                              chbaumga@jupiter.cse.utoledo.edu
                 Member: League For Programming Freedom
         Why I'm in Computer Science & Engineering, Reason #5:
          I thought CSE stood for "College of Sex Education"             
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: hanif
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 02:49:15 GMT

In article <C1BqrK.IpJ@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> emremsia@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Emre Erkut) writes:
>In article <1jrumcINNqrf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bv652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ilan Uri Woll) writes:
>>In a previous article, yamen@cae.wisc.edu (Soner Yamen) says:
>>
>>>Bildigim kadariyla "hanif" cahiliye devrinde Hz. Ibrahim (as)'a
>>>tabii olup, putlari reddedenlere deniyor.
>>>
>>
>>It is EXTREMELY bad form to print a message in Arabic and not translate 
>>for the rest of us.
>
>You are partly right, namely in that a considerable amount of that message
>is made up of arabic words that migrated into our language.
>
>However, it is too bad you cannot differentiate between Turkish and Arabic.
>
>It is worse you tell users of a newsgroup which is established for them, and
>not people of other nations to also use other nations' languages in 
>their messages.
>
>So, we'll have to translate into English.
>
>Bah!
>
>This is our newsgroup, and it's YOUR problem if you don't understand 
>our language. 

Gentlemen!  Each of you is partly right.  My good friend Ilan is right
that in a forum where many don't speak a particular language, be it
Turkish, Arabic, Swahili, or whatever, some mutually understandable
language should be used so that people can communicate.  Never mind for
now the fact that he didn't recognize Turkish and thought it was Arabic.
Emre is also partly right:  in a forum created so that Turks can
communicate about Turkish history, culture, etc., then using Turkish
among those who share it either as part of their heritage or as
something they still speak is just fine.  *HOWEVER* - the fact remains
that the message in question was posted on three different newsgroups,
two of which are very diverse (talk.politics.mideast and rec.arts.books)
with respect to the myriad cultures and languages represented thereon.
Turkish is a language which very few on those two newsgroups understand.
Therefore, I think that Ilan was right on in requesting either that a
translation be provided or that the most common language used on usenet,
English, be used instead so that the thread is understandable to the
maximum number of people. 
-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
From: jeff@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Jeff Dalton)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Warrior Queens (was: Paglia)
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:44:52 GMT
Organization: AIAI, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <20JAN93.17314280@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:
>Jeff Dalton wrote: 
>
>>It shouldn't be surprising that make politicians aren't called "fishwife"
>>(although, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them were called that, the
>>house of commons being what it is). 
>
>The section of _The Warrior Queens_ I was referring to is as follows:

> [omitted]

>I should think that would explain why the term "fishwife" is offensive to a
>woman leader in a way that other epithets would not be offensive to a male.

Since I haven't denied that it would be differently offensive, why
are you making this point?  

On the other hand, the idea that lots of male politicians have the
same Common Style as Thatcher except for her "female lightly timbred
voice" is simply false, as is the suggestion that people objected to
her style because she was a woman.  (They would have liked it from a
man, you think?)

Moreover, that no man "no man could possibly be subject to the same
criticism" is, despite being almost true, a red herring.  People adapt
the abuse to the person.  So what?

If you want to paint a misleading picture of British politics, go
ahead.  But don't expect that no one will call you on it.  

>>The description you gave on the net was misleading (at least!) as 
>>a comment on British politics.  
>
>I daresay it was, because it was never intended as a comment on British
>politics.

But it was such a comment, whatever you intended.

-- jd
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: federhen@wisp.nlm.nih.gov (Scott Federhen)
Subject: Re: People Who Don't Like Arkansas
Organization: National Library of Medicine
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 22:02:00 GMT

A local DJ (Weasel, on WHFS) pointed out a
Ray Charles quote (from 1957, I think he said):

"Tell your ma, tell your pa,
 I'm gonna send you back to Arkansas,
 Hey, hey <etc>,
 What I'd say <etc>"

Scott "Hey, hey, I voted for him" federhen@ncbi.nlnm.nih.gov
From: herb@sybase.com (Herb Lison)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Daido, a non-word
Date: 22 Jan 93 18:14:47 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc.

In article <1j4dkdINNqjp@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>Contrary to Miss Shields' recent posting, "daido" is a NaW, a
>Not-any-Word. The OED and myself are at one on this.
>
>						RABworm

The word was "daito" not "daido".  I won't spoil the fun by revealing
its meaning.

Herb Lison
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26250 alt.president.clinton:1782
From: kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: OZ books?
Date: 28 Jan 93 01:23:34 GMT
Organization: nope

In article <1993Jan25.124040.1@skcla.monsanto.com> jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.133951.1@vaxb.acs.unt.edu>, otto@vaxb.acs.unt.edu (M. Otto, "Virtual Prisoner of the VAX") writes:
>> Did Baum ever write about The Land of An?  (Think about it ;)
>
>The made-for-TV-movie starring John Ritter that was on some time last year had
>Baum/Ritter come up with the name OZ while telling his stories to children in
>the South Dakota town where he'd set up shop.  He was asked by the children
>what the name was of the magical land, and he picked up OZ off the bottom
>drawer of his file cabinet.

Sounds like the guy who was having trouble dealing with MOTAS, so
he wandered into a bookstore.  Not wanting to explain himself to
the bookstore employees (which, considering some of the anecdotes
appearing here previously, might have been reasonable), he just
rummaged around for himself until he found a largish book entitled _How
to Hug_.  He paid an incredibly stiff price, but it wasn't until
he got the thing home that he discovered he'd purchaced a piece
of an encyclopedia.



-- 
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
uupsi!khazad!kassover	          sharp weapons and dull judges."
kassover@aule-tek.com                   F. Collins
kassover@ra.crd.ge.com
From: sph0301@utsph.sph.uth.tmc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Buried Treasure -or- So, whaddaya use for bookmarks?
Date: 25 Jan 1993 16:23:29 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Texas School of Public Health

In article <1993Jan25.042824.16254@zip.eecs.umich.edu> stame@emunix.emich.edu (Stewart Tame) writes:
>From: stame@emunix.emich.edu (Stewart Tame)
>In rereading _Lord of the Rings_ which I'd not
>touched since high school I came across a Dennis the Menace cartoon
>clipped from the paper.  I have absolutely no memory of ever having
>clipped the cartoon but I can't explain how else it would have gotten
>there.


I recently found an old bookmark covered (in my handwriting) with
circuit diagrams and equations.  Since the bookmark was from a store
in another city which I had only visited once (and YEARS after taking
any electronics courses) I can't imagine what I was doing at the time
I wrote it...