From: nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos)
Subject: Re: FOCA: And I quote.....
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date:  9 Sep 92 19:05:42 GMT

In <1992Sep8.014609.5805@nas.nasa.gov> dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan King) writes:


>In article <nyikos.715647502@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:

>>I'm afraid it goes deeper than that.  For instance, I think Will Steeves
>>and I disagree almost as much as you and I on what restrictions should
>>be put on abortion, but I think his heart is in the right place about 99%
>>of the time too.  In fact, I wrote of him in soc.men that he is exactly 
>>the kind of person I am glad is involved in the abortion debate.  I feel
>>the same way about "Jammer Jim" Miller and Elizabeth Bartley.

>>I wish I could feel the same way about you.
> 
>As far as I know, Adrienne has never once threatened to kill anyone 
>for not showing her the proper respect.  Will has.  Perhaps you missed 
>his now famous post were he issued his threat. 

At the time I posted the above, I had not seen any such threat from Will.

> I just so happened to
>still have it.  I will repost his entire post were he made his threat
>so that you will see his threat has not been taken out of context.  

Thank you, it helps a lot.

>Then answer the question, has Adrienne ever said anything as 
>appalling as Will Steeves?

I'll answer this right after Will's appalling statement below.

>******************************REPOST************************************
>From: goid@zooid.guild.org (Will Steeves)
>Newsgroups: soc.women,alt.abortion.inequity,talk.abortion,soc.men
>Subject: Father Notification Reconsidered
>Message-ID: <1992Sep3.025255.4014@zooid.guild.org>
>Date: 3 Sep 92 02:31:00 GMT

>kendall@adobe.com (Janice Kendall) writes...
>JK>  I don't think the man has a right to know if the woman feels the best
>JK>  action for her situation is to abort.


>Well, as my good friend, Locutus of Borg :-), might say : "Feelings are
>Irrelevant".  Indeed, if someone were to say "The man has the right to have
>his child," you might say "Irrelevant!  It involves her body".  And in this
>case, I, err Locutus :-) would that the woman does *not* have the right to
>"decide" to deny the father the right to know the full truth of what he is
>about to face.

>However, I agree with Don Beaver that such notification *should* be after the
>fact, although I believe this VERY grudgingly, because it is bad enough that
>the man feels totally powerless in a situation where he is expected to be
>responsible, but to tell him *afterwards* seems only like throwing salt in
>the wounds.  Even so, I grant the possibility of abuse in cases where the
>notification is before the fact.

>BUT, I do not believe that this rare possibility totally abrogates his right
>to *know*.  Thus, I would say that notification should be VERY soon afterwards,
>although I think that the woman should at least have the decency, respect, and
>trust to tell him beforehand!  (Note my words carefully : I am stating that I
>believe that it is advisable to tell beforehand, but that I would *require*
>it to be told afterwards).

>And with God or Allah (whomever) as my witness, I will say that in my own
>situation, if the woman had *not* been so respecting as to tell me before,
>but in fact had not only told me right afterwards, but had waited a year (!)
>or more, I probably would have snapped right there and killed her where she
>stood.

This is all in the past tense.  The context strongly seems to indicate
 that Will's whole outlook has radically
changed since these unfortunate events.  In fact, I recall in an earlier
post that he said he suffered a nervous breakdown in the wake of the whole
unfortunate incident to which he alludes.  "I probably would have snapped
right there" is an indication of what an overwrought emotional state he
was in.

What Will wrote here was definitely not a threat, it was a (probably
exaggerated) look in hindsight at what could have happened to a mentally
unbalanced Will Steeves.  

People can go through hellish trials and tribulations and emerge far
more exemplary human beings because of them.  I still feel deep down
inside that Will is one of these, although you may note that I hedged
my bets by saying "about 99% of the time."

Adrienne, on the other hand, shows no signs of having grown as a human
being in the wake of her 7 years on the network.  (If she has grown, I'd
sure hate to see what a devil-may-care attitude she had at the beginning.) 

Peter Nyikos

Newsgroups: talk.abortion