HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: an2026@anon.penet.fi
Subject: Test #5
X-Anonymously-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Organization: Anonymous contact service
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 16:27:00 GMT

X-Anon-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery

Here we go again, none have worked yet (unless they're all just taking
a week to get there, in which case you will all be bored with this by now..)
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From: anon-1410@twwells.com (Angel & all)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: holiday break
Date: 20 Dec 92 18:42:53 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

We'll be here.  STaying in the same place over the break, not visiting any of
the family, going to try and hide out at friends' house over the 24 & 25 th
so that if family calls I won't be there and they have to talk to machine
and I do't have to hear their voices.  Don't like stupid holidays.  don't 
don't don't don't don't.

angel & kendra & us peoples



--
To use this service, send EMAIL to:
anon-ping@twwells.com  -- test path/get anonymous id
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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: My First Posting
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:05:44 GMT

Hi, and welcome!  If you have memories of something nasty happening to
you, but don't remember clearly, it more than likely *did* happen, and your
mind is trying to protect you from those memories.  Don't let the FMS
people get to you!  <smile>  :)
-- 
Ed Carp			erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com	801/538-0177

Who and what would you be if you went beyond your deepest fears?
Newsgroups: alt.newgroup,alt.config
From: ndiaz@worldbank.org (Nilo Diaz, 880/40, R-6000, 32032)
Subject: Re: Another listing of newsgroups in the "alt"
Reply-To: ndiaz@worldbank.org
Organization: The World Bank
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:14:01 GMT
From: mwk20@ccc.amdahl.com (Michael W Knowles)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Step Twelve
Keywords: spiritual carry
Date: 14 Dec 92 17:00:04 GMT
Reply-To: mwk20@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Michael W Knowles)
Distribution: na
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <Bz2z2H.9HA@iat.holonet.net> jcwilcox@orac.holonet.net (Jerry Wilcox) writes:
>>12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps,
>>    we tried to carry this message to alcoholics,
>>    and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
>
>>Looks pretty straightforward to me.  ;-)
> 
>Is pretty straightforward, but lately I've been becoming concerned about
>the difference between "carrying the message" and "shoving the message
>down people's throats."

stuff deleted...

>
>meetings. Now the problem. There is a local AA "expert" who latches onto
>newcomers all the time (I know, he got me when I first moved down here,
>several years ago). C is one of those who feels that there is only one
>path in AA, the one he has walked. C has convinced Jose to let him be his
>sponsor, and is now telling Jose that he is never going to succeed in AA,
>never going to get sober, because Jose won't (can't?) work the steps in
>exactly the way that C does. Lately, Jose has been avoiding meetings,
>saying that he's going to fail anyway.
>
>When confronted with this, C says he's simply doing what the 12th step
>demands -- carrying the message.
>
>Wonder where he got the funnel he's carrying it in.
>
>Peace,
>  Jerry

I'd interpret C's attitude as working someone else's program.  Maybe
you can suggest to Jose that he get a different sponsor.  It can
be difficult shutting down a "bad" sponsor, but what price sobriety?

Sounds like C needs to redo Step 4 with particular emphasis on
humility (or the lack thereof).

Be good to yourself,
  Michael

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Knowles                 Won't that road twist you up
mwk20@amail.amdahl.com              like a rubber band?
408-746-3305

Standard disclaimer applies.  Bye Now...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky alt.recovery:3721 alt.support:1555
From: bu979@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chris C. Raber)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery,alt.support
Subject: Re: New in Recovery, need words on relatioships
Date: 18 Dec 92 19:28:27 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I've often heard people at meetings say, "no relationships for 
the first year". It doesn't saythat anywhere in the big book.

I for one believe that I learn most of my lessons as a result
of the relationships in my life. Relationships with co-workers,
friends, family and lovers all have there lessons.

One of my "defects" in my addtion was isolating myself. If your motivations
are in the right place (unselfish ...) go for it. If however your are 
trying to "fix" via love then caution.


Love,

Chris
From: bu979@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chris C. Raber)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Group Exclusivity?
Date: 17 Dec 1992 17:31:25 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Welcome Carol,

My name is Chris, I only read here occasionaly since my dial in line is so slow!

I am a recovering AA. Recently I have developed an awareness that some of my
"defects" have more to do with unresolved ACOA issues. So i need that kind of
forum as well. This feels like a safe place for me.


CCR
Xref: sparky alt.recovery:3724 alt.support:1556
From: btowle@ecst.csuchico.edu (Brendon Blaire Towle)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery,alt.support
Subject: Re: New in Recovery, need words on relatioships
Date: 19 Dec 92 01:08:02 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: pathogen.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <1992Dec16.192810.18999@athena.cs.uga.edu> heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes:
>
>I'm only 23.
>	Now that I've ranted and raved, does anyone out there have any
>helpful hints?  C'mon folx, here a newbie in need of your experience,
>strength and hope.
>-- 
>"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
>			-Joseph Beam_
>Terrance Heath 
>heath@athena.cs.uga.edu

	Wow. A newcomer.  Asking for help.  Sounds like someone who is a whole
lot more together than I was at five months clean.

	Terrance, I had a sponsor tell me at just over one year clean, that if
I wanted to get into a relationship - go for it!  He also said that it would
either provoke me to work the steps, or it would provoke me to relapse.  From
what I've seen, he's right.

	I am a firm believer in the "learning is by doing" school of thought.
Most of us (myself included) get to recovery knowing almost nothing about
relationships, and thinking we know almost everything.  (This line of thought
can be expanded to most areas of life, but I digress.)  Unfortunately, when
we get into these relationships that we know almost nothing about, we often
end up hurting ourselves and others, and this pain pushes us - either towards
the steps, or towards the drugs.

	I am 22, and just celebrated 4 years clean.  I am currently in the
beginnings of what might be a relationship.  I have been in two relationships
in recovery prior to this one, one lasting 18 months, and one lasting 2 years.
(No, I didn't take the wait one year advice - I waited a whole 33 days!)  My
experience is that the relationships I have been in were necessary to learn
what little I know about relationships.  "Learning is by doing."  If I had all
the skills necessary to be in a healthy relationship, I would probably be in
one.  Ditto for if my HP thought it advisable or necessary.

	Most of us have fears about being alone for the rest of our lives - I
know I do.  But I need to remember that I have a Power in my life who only
wants what is best for me.  If I will be happiest in a long-term, committed
relationship, and I keep showing up and participating in my life, that will
happen.  If I will be happiest going from relationship to relationship, that
is what will happen.

	Sure, I have my opinion.  _I_ think that I'll be happiest in a long
term relationship.  But, I also thought that I'd be happiest getting loaded,
and we all know how that turned out.  That doesn't mean that my thinking is
wrong - it just means that it isn't necessarily right.

	I hope this helped.  Keep coming back, don't take anything, and what
you need will be given to you - this I firmly believe.

Brendon
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Subject: Re: "We are not allied with any sect or denomination" - Really?
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:06:17 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.154335.7646@netcom.com> dhawk@netcom.com (David Hawkins) writes:
>With regards to the Lord's Prayer: that's up to each group. Some
>groups use it, some don't.  In my area, here in California, it's
>possible to find groups that don't use it and just attend those, if
>that's my inclination.

	In the meetings I've attended here in Athens GA, some of them
are closed with the Lord's Prayer, some are closed with the Serenity
Prayer, and some are closed with the "We" version of the Serenity
Prayer. And there is always the option of using a silent prayer of
one's own choosing.




-- 
"Black men loving black men is THE revolutionary act!"
			-Joseph Beam_
Terrance Heath 
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu
From: amigan@cup.portal.com (Mike - Medwid)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: ACoA Work Review
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 09:39:16 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

Jeez-Louise!  I was in one funkey spot last night.  Anyhow..feeling much
better today.  Every once in a while certain events will just trigger
those flashbacks, yuck.  Sorry for bleeding on the net.  -Mike
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: U60703@uicvm.uic.edu
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Rational Recovery
Date: 19 Dec 92 02:41:15 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago



Hello again.....

I know I am newer here and I don't know if this has been addressed before...
But I have read that some of you are at odds with the program because of
the incorporations of Christian overtones/closing prayer....

While I have no problem with this...I do not like to judge others for their
beliefs....so..I may have access to some info some of you may be interested
in...

In the Chicago area we have groups that are called Rational Recovery....
which claims to be a recovery system w/out the "higher power"....
although I have never attended...it may be something you can look up in your
area....and if you don't have access to these meetings, but would like info
to perhaps start your own group...just send me a note or post follow-up...

If several of you out there are interested I can post any info I can get...
I wish I had an 800 # for you guys, but is not on the list :(

Good luck w/upcoming Holidays to us all!!!

Carole u60703@uicvm.uic.edu

ACOA joke:"I don't need to take this abuse from you, I can just go home for
           the holidays!"  (he he...just a joke..lighten up...God..sorry! :)
Xref: sparky alt.recovery:3719 alt.support:1552
From: bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery,alt.support
Subject: Re: New in Recovery, need words on relatioships
Date: 18 Dec 92 01:14:59 GMT
Followup-To: alt.recovery
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes:
|One of them is my obsession with being (or not being) in a
|relationship. I know, I know, I know. I've heard it before "You should
|really avoid starting relationships early in recovery because you'll
|be experiencing a lot of raw feelings you've never dealt with before.
|You need to have a strong foudnation in sobriety first. etc., etc., ad
|nauseum.

My girlfriend is an AA with 7+ years sober. I am a tweaking newbie to
CoDA, with about 3 months abstinent.

This relationship has NOT been in any stretch of the imagination easy.
We've worked our butts off, communicated like crazy, done the best we
can, but it's still not "perfect love." I'm pretty sure it will never
be perfect.

I asked my guides about the relationship, how overt we are about
feelings, how it all seems so "unnatural." "Isn't she just supposed to
know these things?" "I've told him that a million times. Why do I have
to keep saying it?"

The best reply I got was from my Mom. She said, "Well, at least you
can talk about these things, and discuss them rationally and work
things out."

I don't know if things will work out, but I do know that I am getting
better at relationships right now. I can't imagine any other way to
get better at relationships except to practice them. Then again, I
can't think of any other way to really learn ANYTHING except to
practice.

I've made a commitment to be honest with my gf, and let her know where
I am. (This does not mean I should call her only when I'm depressed,
or every 10 minutes, whichever comes first, as I have found out...)
I've made a commitment to try really hard to make it go, but I've also
acknowledged that part of that commitment is to force myself to ask
for what I want, and make sure my needs are heard.  That's a really
hard thing for me, and I'm still learning it.

I've also accepted that this is ALL I can do. That I should NOT do
things like sacrifice my needs or hide my feelings. And that if things
don't work out even though I've tried, it's not my fault.

Right now I do things like call my guides every single time anything
happens, listen to them, meditate, decide what's right for me.

I hope in mere years (grin) to be down to calling them only every once
in a while. Hopefully, for child-rearing tips.

It ain't easy, but I'm grateful.

bill coderre
Newsgroups: alt.recovery,alt.support
From: ssalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (-=[SLS]=-)
Subject: Re: New in Recovery, need words on relatioships
Organization: OFSA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 13:46:32 GMT

kpscarr@leland.Stanford.EDU (Karen Pelton Scarr) suggests:


>If you feel strong enough, go for it.  Not because you are afraid of 
>ending up old and alone, but because what else can you do?  You have to
>try it--you have to find out if it's something real.  You get hurt this

Why does anyone *have* to try it? Especially with just a few months
under the belt being sober? 

>way--badly, and often--but there's no other way to find your soul mate.

Yeah, you can get hurt badly...maybe badly enough to cause a relapse.
There is no "being strong" involved here either. It is a matter of
personal growth and acceptance.

>That's what life's about--not avoiding life, but living it--not avoiding
>hurt, but diving in, and getting hurt again, if need be.  Better to have
>loved and lost than never to have loved at all.


Sounds masochistic to me...keep diving in and getting hurt...if need
be. I agree that it is better to have loved and lost than never to
have loved at all but sometimes it is best to take your time and *take
it easy*. 

Steve

Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: moy@acf3.NYU.EDU (Gloria J. Moy,N.DORM C3,(212)9983456,)
Subject: holiday greetings
Organization: New York University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 14:09:00 GMT

 
I want to extend warmest holiday greetings to all of you. Also thanks
for being here and for sharing your ideas, thoughts and insights. Its
much appreciated.
This will be my first holiday without sugar (ugh!)

all the best to you all. 

-gloria
From: juang@spock.dis.cccd.edu (Juan Gascon)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: What!??!? I'm not finished?!
Date: 16 Dec 1992 00:17:43 GMT
Organization: Coast Community College District, Costa Mesa, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: spock.dis.cccd.edu

In article <1992Dec15.164019.3541@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov> puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett) writes:
>weiss@leopard.cs.uidaho.edu (Phil Weiss) writes:
>
>>The twelfth step (yeppers, we're in December...) states: "Having
>>had a spiritual awakening as the result of the steps, we tried
>>to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles
>>in all our affairs."
>
>Phill goes on to list some 'principles'....
>Nice stuff, but this step says 'these principles' & 'these steps' (not
>'the' steps, as Phil misquoted 8-). It doesn't say 'some other principles
>that you may can dig out of the text somewhere.' it says 'these principles'.
>
>...and in the next paragraph, the BB sez 'the principles we have set down
>are guides to progress.'
>
>OK jim, whaddinahellya talking about?
>
>..simple. Principle - 'a guide or rule establishing conduct, behaviour or
>action.' The principles are the Steps. Twelve principles. Not 'the 
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	As I understood it the principles contain the twelve traditions
also. That would make it twenty four principles.  The steps help us
recover from our addictions (liquid or otherwize) and the twelve traditions
protect our individual fellowships' and allow us to continue to recover in
harmony one day at a time, forever.  Together they are a way of life.

In NA we have recently adopted the Twelve Concepts which are guidelines
for dealing with service in NA.  Its not a bad concept (or dozen) and  
having been in service for years, I admit they are quite welcome.
Atleast to some of us.

	The last thing I want to do is step on anyone's toes about a
different fellowship's manner of being.  For that matter I am a full
believer in "If it works, don't fix it" for any fellowship including
my own.  But I do admit that fellowships in general are dynamic systems
that grow by virtue of their changing memberships and their particular
needs.

	What I'm getting at is the possibility, and I propose this to
Cyber-alt.recovery space as an inquiry only, of dividing this newsgroup
into the various fellowships that may at times by the nature of their
existance need to be at odds.  What do you folks think of say:
alt.recovery.aa - alt.recovery.na - alt.recovery.ca -alt.recovery.oa
alt.recovery.sa, etc etc etc

	Please don't flame me for exploring this possibility of avoiding
conflicts and flame wars.  If you disagree, and there is plenty room for
disagreement as we can grow from eachother regardless of the fellowships
to which we belong, state your reasons and possible alternatives.

	Those that belong to multiple fellowships could read all the 
pertinent newsgroups.  Anyway I took the chance and it's up to the
Cyber-group conscience here whether I need acceptance or courage  
because I'm certainly not that wise, yet. :^)

 Juan G.
From: richardg@spot.Colorado.EDU (Greg L. Richardson)
Subject: Electronic Meetings
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 00:49:26 GMT


I was just thinking.  (yeah, a rarity) We, the recovering compu-types have
an advantage that is kind of cool.  We have the opportunity to get a sort of
"dictated meeting" via alt.recovery. I know that a lot of times in a meeting
I get really distracted due to loud little kids, coffee buzzes, loud crosstalk,
my committee being in overdrive, any number of things. One of the biggest 
aspects of the Big Book that I've found is that fact that is black and white,
right there in front of me, I can read and reread it as my life changes and
can therefore get the most of what it says. One reason that recovery tapes
do so well is that with that format, you can also relisten and rethink what
is said to maximize comprehension.

That is one thing that the unix system can also provide, an opportunity to 
take what someone says, save it for a while and reread it at a better date.
Another advantage we have over regular meetings is that we can post and share
whenever we want and can generally check the newsgroup and find something that
someone else might be able to benifit from.

I propose we take a certain subject, and discuss it. I think we ought to
change subjects whenever the need for it arises. We have a great medium to
offer help to other people and to possibly have a constant avenue of support.

I'll get the ball rolling:
	How about talking about the narrowing road of sobriety.

Once in a CA meeting, I heard an old timer say, "If you are a newcomer and
you want a pack of cigarettes and you don't have the money, go to a store
and steal a pack. That won't cause you to relapse. But, due to the place
in my recovery that I'm in, if I were to steal the cigarettes, I *would*  
relapse."

I'm not too sure that telling newcomers to steal is the best thing in the
world, but it brings up an interesting point.

Thanks and Love,
Greg
==============================================================================

I found myself thinking, "I would give anything for a drink." 
Then, after a moment, "Anything but what it would cost." 

Bill C:
working pretty darn hard on his own damn program right now, and
quoting that other unofficial slogan, "I wanna be allbetterrightNOW"

"Working on the 12 steps is better than pissing on an electrical outlet."

============================================================================== 

Newsgroups: alt.recovery,alt.support
From: weiss@leopard.cs.uidaho.edu (P. Andrew Weiss)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Step Twelve
Date: 15 Dec 1992 02:28:22 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

> I'd interpret C's attitude as working someone else's program.  Maybe
> you can suggest to Jose that he get a different sponsor.  It can
> be difficult shutting down a "bad" sponsor, but what price sobriety?
> 
> Sounds like C needs to redo Step 4 with particular emphasis on
> humility (or the lack thereof).
> 
> Be good to yourself,
>   Michael

So C is working Jose's program.  Jerry and yourself are now working
C's program.  And now I am working your program.  Hmmmmm......

Live and let live.

Phil W (Moscow, ID)

This postscript has been included merely to get the CS Mail-to-News
gateway to accept this post.  The Mail to News gateway will not
accept any posts with more lines of "included" text than unincluded
text.  In other words, it counts the lines which start with ">"

This should be long enough now.  Thank you.
From: bc@Apple.COM (bill coderre)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Seeking help on "The God Thing"
Date: 16 Dec 92 01:29:07 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA


We've had a lot of bickering lately about praying, God, recovery, and
AA official opinion.

Not that I'd like to put a stop to that, but I am interested in
getting some help "finding" my higher power. Anybody got a good
reference?

I have tried to re-work the concepts and ideas into a Zen
Buddhist-like framework, but it's hard to do while I'm busy
recovering.
From: bu979@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chris C. Raber)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: New in Recovery, need words on relatioships
Date: 18 Dec 92 19:36:20 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


> Got in to a relationship that caused me to use again.


I'll have to remember that next time I need an excuse for a relapse!


Chris.
Newsgroups: alt.recovery,alt.support