HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Getting to grappling range.
Date: 16 Nov 1992 13:55 PST
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

I don't know about YOURS, but any of MY prob-stat profs would be on the
floor in a coughing fit by now, having snorted up his own pipe ashes at
the very thought of trying to resolve this problem analytically.

In a small sample, you've got two overwhelming confounds:  individual
talent and dumb luck.  If the opponents are of different sizes, add a
third, namely, the ways in which one art might be better suited to a
certain approach. And rules.  Oh, yeah, rules.  (Whaddaya mean I can't
foot-sweep the referee and use him as a shield when shoving my opponent
out of the ring? :)  Get a lot of fights with a large pool of competitors
(preferably with some open-weight-class free-for-alls) and them MAYBE
someone good at multivariate analysis could pull something out of it.

--Joe 
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485)
Subject: Re: The art of head-butting!
Organization: SRG, Arinc Research Corp., Annapolis, MD
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 15:35:13 GMT

In article <BxvAG5.Iz8@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> shulick@yankton.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
>No, but seriously.  Here's a little diagram..
	(hey! A diagram, that simplifies things tremendously! It must be real
easy for Hindu's, it's just a matter a matter of "connecting the dots"!)

BEFORE headbutting
>
>    \
>     \      ______
>      -->  /      \
>          |        |
>           >
>          /
>         /_
>           |
>

AFTER headbutting
>
>    \    . o
>     \    \|______
>      -->/ *      \
>        # |        |
>           >
>          /
>         /_
>           |
>

	[Arnold Schwarzeneggar voice] "ITZ NAAAAHHHT UH TUMAAHH!"

	Actually, I used to get drunk and headbutt my buddies and other
suitably soft objects. It's fun so long as you don't do it too hard, or the
wrong way.
--
	Stephen Chan
	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net
From: dunger@crsa.bu.edu (David Unger)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
Keywords: Daddy
Date: 21 Nov 92 20:05:34 GMT
Organization: Boston University Center for Remote Sensing


	"father being untrained civilian population"

Wrong ding dong, he was a SEAL ready for action cause ge waas trained
in Jeet Ku Do or whatever that was!
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: Re: Charging for training?
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 08:08:00 +0000



Brenda Romans (ber@otter.hpl.hp.com) writes
>I too was surprised at the way martial arts are taught in the USA.  I did
>Shotokan Karate for a couple of years here in England and just paid the going
>rate for any sports at the sports hall (approx 1 pound to 1.50).  After about a
>year the instructor packed in his job to teach Karate full time because he
>loved it.  I don't know how he made any money because he didn't charge any
>more.  The "important" Shotokan guys from Liverpool seemed to be making money
>but this was from commercial ventures associated with Karate - manufacturing
>suits and bags, making videos and writing books.  They did hold special
>training sessions and courses throughout the country but the charges were
>nothing much, maybe five pounds for a one day course (and it might not even
>have been that.)  I don't think that you can make much money in England just
>doing martial arts training, people just wouldn't pay.
>


In my experience this is not entirely true. Yes some dojo's find it hard
to exist. However, I know a large number of professional instructors. Some
make a handsom living from it. Especially the ones you ment5 training fees when
multiplied by the hundreds add up to a good hourly rate, even after all
the travel and hall expenses are paid.


I edit a karate magazine and so I tend to see a reasonably large number
of clubs on my travels. 
There are, as far as I can see, three types of dojo.
1. 100% professional. The Instructor teaches full time. He pays the Hall
fees etc and takes the cash at the end of the evening. He does all the 
advertising and has to ensure that there are enough feet on the mat to
pay the bills.
2. Semi professional. The Instructor teaches part time. His main income
is from another job. He teaches for the love of it and doesn't mind having
some extra cash at the end of the week. He pays the hall fees and it's
swings and roundabouts, some times he makes a good profit and some times
he has to fork out a bit out of his own pocket to pay for the hall.
3. Non professional. All cash goes into the club funds, the club pays for
the hall and other expenses. If there is extra cash it is usually spent
on equipment etc. The instructor doesn't care about having any extra cash
and also doesn't want the problems associated with running the club.
In nearly all of these clubs there is a secretary (not the instructor) who
is responsible for hall hire and collecting the money etc.


The thing all three have in common is that they all love their art and
the money (or lack of it) plays little part in their motivation to teach.
That's not to say that there are a great many people out there that are
ripping off the public left, right and centre - I just don't visit those
dojos (at least not more than once!).


Anybody have any other categories they want to add to the list.


Bill Burgar.
From: w0z092@rick.cs.ubc.ca (Michael Kin-Hung Liang)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Frank Dux?
Date: 15 Nov 1992 17:08:51 -0800
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: bowen.rick.cs.ubc.ca
Keywords: Dux, Goju-Ryu

I have two questions and was wondering if anyone out there knows...

1)  I just saw Van Damme's movie "Bloodsport" again on TV - pretty good.  What
    I'm curious to know is the history behind the guy he was portraying, Frank
    Dux.  Until this movie, I've only heard of this guy once, but I gather that
    he was/is a heck of a martial artist.  Does anyone out there have enough
    free time to give me a brief biography of him?

2)  And I'm trying to find out all I can about this school of Karate called
    Goju-Ryu.  From what I've heard from the guy that teaches it here at UBC,
    it comes from Okinawa and was supposed to be the basis of the 'Karate Kid'
    movies.  Its supposed to be an old but effective form of karate.

    Comments, suggestions, info?   Thanks all in advance.


MIKE L.  (w0z092@rick.cs.ubc.ca)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil ($tephen Northcutt)
Subject: Re: Charging for training?
Reply-To: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center	
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:47:28 GMT

Eric Westreich writes:

When we said, 25 or 50 cents, people threw the shirts back  
in disgust. When we charged several dollars, they bought the shirts

Similarly, I've found that when I don't charge for martial arts
lessons, many people are unmotivated about attending class.
For some reason, most people seem to take things for granted 
unless they pay for them.

             See that!!!! I told you guys!  More proof!
                The more you pay the more you learn!

Not Meik Do indeed!  One more crack like that Mary and I'll
splinter off and start my own federation.

>I don't think that I will teach for free again!
Preach it!

	Stephen Northcutt, Chief Instructor, MoDo's Tae Kwon Do

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485)
Subject: Re: Kicking with instep vs. ball
Organization: SRG, Arinc Research Corp., Annapolis, MD
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 13:59:38 GMT

In article <Z5DcuB1w165w@ziggys.cts.com> cobra@ziggys.cts.com (Ron Lee)  619/262-6384 writes:
>Use of the ball of the foot concentrates all your energy into a spot 
>roughtly 2" wide (more or less).  That's why it's so good for breaking 
>boards.

	It also requires a little more tension in the lower leg to maintain
this structure, and some more flexibility in the calves, so tends to be a
little slower.

>Use of the instep spreads your energy out over 4" (more or less), 
>allowing you to initiate with more force and feel it less coming back to 
>you, but also spreading that energy over a wider target.

	The converse of the previous comment applies: it's faster.

>Use of the shin (as I've seen in only a couple posts--I'll have to try it 
>next Tuesday night) will spread that energy over an even wider area.

	The shin is a very hard and solid striking surface. Shin kicks also
eliminate the need to transfer power through the ankles, getting rid of one
more thing which can go wrong (ever hit a bag with incorrect wrist position?
the same can happen with your ankle, right?)

--
	Stephen Chan
	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net
From: jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd)
Subject: Re: Question: fumikomi (foot-stamping)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:30:56 GMT
	<gf36Jhe00YUoEuo2F_@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<JON.92Nov20114048@zeus.med.utah.edu> <13983@pogo.wv.tek.com>
Organization: University of Utah

In article <13983@pogo.wv.tek.com> roberts@pogo.wv.tek.com (Robert Stroud) writes:

        I would like to add my ideas on this to the postings.

Thanks.  I was hoping that you would do so.

	In kendo we practice barefoot and run through the opponent.  These
	actions are unlike the types of actual matches that historically
	demonstrate "how it was really done".  In Iaido you see differences
	the lead foot is planted before the cut so that the person doing
	the cut has a solid base.  In shinai kendo the 'sports' type of
	movement tends to allow the opponents to glide past an action that
	would not work with a real sword.  That is why the study of kata and
	Iaido is recommended to balance out the kendo curriculum.  The Iai/kata
	and kendo form the two wheels on a bike, both are required to allow
	it to function.

What is is about the Kendo strike that does not translate to a strike
with a real sword?

One thing I can think of is that a blade does not cut well when
chopped straight down on to the suface to be cut.  To get a good cut,
the blade must be drawn along the surface.  When I have seen
demonstrations of tameshigiri, it appears as if they extend their arms
fully, and draw the blade in toward their body as they cut.  Of course
this would not work well if they were moving forward.  In this case,
it seems like the only way to move the blade along the cutting surface
is to push it.  My question is this: does anyone do tameshi-giri with
a forward push of the blade, instead of a pull?

--
jonathan byrd
jon@apollo.med.utah.edu
From: jat@hpcss01.cup.hp.com (Joseph Talmadge)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:36:31 GMT
Subject: Re: The art of head-butting!
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

bp652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gil W. Lau) writes:
>In a previous article, shulick@yankton.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) says:
>
>>I've always wondered, how do you pull off a successful headbutt without
>>hurting yourself?  I've experimented/practiced a little bit (ow!), and
>>found that the part of the skull about three inches above the eyebrows
>>is a TOUGH spot in the skull.  It's ABOUT where the hairline recedes.  I
>>hit a wall w/ my head and it didn't hurt.. too much. :)  Call me
>>insane.. :) 
>
>You're INSANE!!!  I hate to see the twenty-odd other times you did
>it against the wall and found out that part of the skull was not as
>tough!! *wince*

Yeah, the thing about headbutts is, you can't "condition" your head
without risk of rattling your brain too much.

>Basically you've got the right part of your skull to use.  Never use
>your forehead against your opponents like you always see in the movies.
>What you want to do is to slam your crown moving in a straight line 
>into the guy's face.  This is what's been taught to me, but I kinda 
>doubt I'll ever use it in combat.  A good knee smash to the groin
>should do the trick!

I saw a Paul Vunak tape which also said the crown to the face is
the preferred method.  I saw him do the headbutt against a grab.
The attacker grabbed Paul, who pushed down on the guy's elbow. 
This made the attacker's upper body move forward, and at the same
time Paul slammed his head into the guy's face.

Joe
jat@cup.hp.com

From: ber@otter.hpl.hp.com (Brenda Romans)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 09:04:28 GMT
Subject: JUDO - Cross grip and Nerves
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts


A couple of weeks ago I asked for (and received - Thanks) advice on fighting
for grip.  Yesterday I had a go at fighting for my Judo 1st Dan and came across
a slightly different problem. 

My first opponent was shorter than me but very stocky and strong.  She had a
go at batting my hands out of the way but soon gave up and took a very strong
cross grip on my lapel (her left hand on my left lapel).  I couldn't do
*anything* about it, she was so strong that I couldn't break the grip.  I did
usually manage to get a grip on her lapel and sleeve (or both lapels), but with
that arm between us I couldn't do much as I couldn't get her to move much
either. 

She tried a couple of useless drop seoi-nage (that I failed to capitalise on)
and made the odd grab for my legs, I attempted (when I knew I shouldn't) a few
useless side sacrifice throws. We drew in the end, we both got penalties at the
beginning for not fighting but she got another later and one for running away
off the mat.

My strategy of advancing and just going for the grip I wanted worked, I got
reasonable grips and had her worried but the super defensive posture and that
cross grip really had me beat - Any ideas?

The other two competitions weren't as bad.  No great fight for grip and they
both seemed keen to get close to my left shoulder - that's fine I knocked down
one with a side sacrifice and held her for 30 seconds.  I picked the other up
somehow and twisted round to throw her for ippon, nice throw but even having
seen it on video I couldn't say what it was.  
So I'm 20 points up only 80 to go :-}    

ANOTHER PROBLEM

I thought that I had the nerves beat by using visualisation techniques, but not
this time.  I was *very* nervous by the time I had my first fight and by the
end of that I was a gasping wreck, very tired, panting excessively and feeling
sick.  During it I could hear my coach yelling at me to fight but I didn't have
the strength to do much.  Any ideas on how to keep calm and get the best out of
myself would be very welcome.  Like I said, I have 80 points to go.

Cheers

Brenda

------------------------------------------------------------------
Brenda Romans @ HP Labs         |  Phone: (0272) 228705
Information Systems Centre      |  ber@hpl.hp.co.uk
Bristol                         |  ber%hplb.uucp@ukc.ac.uk
U.K.                            |  ber@hplb.hpl.hp.com


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fun5@quads.uchicago.edu (BloodWynd)
Subject: Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
Reply-To: fun5@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 03:45:14 GMT

In article <1ek2rtINN796@male.EBay.Sun.COM> 49ers@eb5ts4.EBay.Sun.COM (Renie Maycon) writes:
>I am writing in regards to what a person said that Bruce Lee punched harder
>than most Heavy Weight Champions these days.  I just totaly disagree that a
>160 pound guy punches harder than a man 230+, c'mon be serious.  Don't get me
>wrong I use to train 5 years ago, and I think martial arts is good protection.
>It does not mean it is the ultimate self defense. Boxers can punch to break 
>bones. just like karate guys .  Breaking boards and bricks do not mean nothing?

Whoever wrote that got a fine point written out.  It is said that Bruce Lee
coudl deliver a 300 lb or 300 psi punch, while only weighing in at about
140 lbs or so.  Joe Frazier (sp?) on the other hand could deliver a 400 lb/psi
punch but he weighed in at around 250.  So, yes, Joe Frazier hit harder than
Bruce Lee, but proportionally, Bruce Lee hit harder than Joe Frazier could,
per body-weight pound.  According to Clouse's book, _The Making of Enter the
Dragon_, Lee himself thought that he would get his butt kicked if he got in
the ring with Muhommed (sp?) Ali.  Personally, I think he might have a better
chance on the street ...

Whatever.


-- 
BloodWynd					fun5@midway.uchicago.edu
						fung@athens.uchicago.edu

"When the wandering fire strikes the heart of stone, 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: Boxing vs Martial Arts
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 07:07:23 GMT

In article <1eht5vINNi9d@male.EBay.Sun.COM> 49ers@eb5ts4.EBay.Sun.COM (Renie Maycon) writes:
>I use to think that Tae Kwon Do was the ultimate self protection, but after
>watching boxing such as Mike Tyson Razor Ruddock etc I cam to a conclusion
>that the Undisputed Heavy Weight Champion of the world could beat the
>best Heavy Weight Karate guy in a fight with out using any kicks,  But if 
>kicks were allowed I know that a karate would break the knees and legs of any
>boxer regardless of size.   What is the opinion of other people?

The really decisive factor has nothing to do with the particular style
of fighting. If a Karate black belt were to _box_ against Tyson, he
would loose. But Tyson would loose in Karate-style sparing. Every
style has strong and weak points. The real question in a street
fight would be strategy: Could Tyson lead his opponent into a boxing-like
situation? (E.g. moderately close fighting with strikes to the upper
body only) If so, he'd probably win.

>which is more superior martial arts or boxing ?

Neither. To quote Van Richtoven, "It is not the crate that matters, 
it is the man in the crate." The style of fighting is much less 
important (in my opinion) that the individual. If the individual is
comfortable and proficient in his style, and understands its strengths
and weaknesses, he would be an outstanding fighter regardless of the
style. (Within reason, I might make an exception for, say, Wu Shu or
"love and peace" taiji...)

>Chuck Norris/Bill Wallace vs Marvin Hagler in a one on one any thing goes
>fight including kicks and wrestling, who would win?

Could Norris also use Ching Ching Pow (The secret art of Smith and
Wesson)?

                                              Frank Crary
                                              CU Boulder
From: dampier@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (david dampier)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Charging for training?
Date: 20 Nov 92 19:23:21 GMT
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA


My $0.02 worth.  I currently teach a kid's class free of charge, and I have 
several students in my adult class who train free.  I have discovered over
the last year doing this that if a student doesn't pay a little something, they
are inclined not to make as much effort.  This makes it difficult to maintain
any reasonable level of proficiency in the student and maintain a teacher-
student relationship that benfits both the instructor and the instructee.

I have modified my children's class somewhat and now only allow participation
by invitation only, where at first it was open to all.  This has helped to
alleviate the earlier problems, somewhat.  I will not say which is better, free
or not.  I think they both have their distinct advantages.

Just my ever so humble position. Not!

Dave Dampier, Martial Artist in cognito as a CS student.
From: garry@alice.att.com (garry hodgson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fight Strategy in Escrima
Summary: Thanks Very Much
Date: 18 Nov 92 23:44:13 GMT
Reply-To: garry@alice.UUCP ()
Distribution: rec
Organization: AT&T, Bell Labs

In article <1992Nov16.144228.730@hls.com> silatman@hls.com writes:
>
>                  Fight Strategy in Escrima:

[excellent article on Escrima training and strategy deleted]

>                                 Khalid Khan


Khalid -

I just wanted to say thanks for posting this article here.
It was quite interesting.  This is the kind of article, dealing
with strategies and training methods, that many of us read this
newsgroup for.  I'm just starting to learn escrima, so I find 
these posts particularly interesting.  Keep 'em coming.

-- 
Garry Hodgson			A slow winter day
AT&T Bell Labs			A night like forever
garry@alice.att.com		Sink like a stone
att!alice!garry			Float like a feather
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tekare00@nx13.mik.uky.edu 
Subject: Re: Chi
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:13:52 GMT

In article <BxMux8.AuB@news.cs.andrews.edu> maierj@edmund.cs.andrews.edu  
(Joey Maier) writes:
> I'm a total neophyte to this whole thing, but I just thought I'd add my
> two cents worth.  One of my friends from Korea told me about Chi-kung.
> (Chi-kung = "study chi")  He said that it involves lots of breathing
> exercizes.  
> 
> Please don't flame me overthis.  Like I said, I am not presuming to
> speak from the position of someone who knows martial arts.  
> 
> Joey Maier    maierj@andrews.edu


It has been my understanding that there are two ways to develop your chi.   
One of the ways comes from India and involves using the breath to generate  
and to move the chi (or the warmth).  The other way comes from China.   
This method uses the Tai Chi form or various excersizes to develop and  
circulate chi.  The breath in this method is not utilized.  I must stress  
again that this is only my understanding.  This is what I have practiced,  
and what has worked for me so far.  I would more than welcome an opinion  
form anyone else.


Tom.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: ras@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Shandross)
Subject: Re: rec.martial-arts.humor
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 21:07:59 GMT

In article <1248@xlnt.COM> david@xlnt.com (David Johnson) writes:
	.
	.
	.
>and the testee was asked by the teacher which is more important, timing
>or speed.  The testee replied, "Timing, speed means nothing if the
>window of opportunity is missed."  The teacher added, "Also because as

Yes, I've *always* maintained that when it comes to the testes, timing is
**very** important.  (One prefers a glansing blow to a direct kick in the
testee.)  

;-) 

Rich