HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ttoon@saxon.ling.lsa.umich.edu (Thomas Toon)
Subject: Homosexuals raising children
Organization: University of Michigan Math Dept
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:37:11 GMT

At first I wasn't going to reply to this post, mostly because I thought I'd  
just get mad.  Several other posters have been able to sustain a belief in the  
original posters good will, so I'll give it a try.
	You ask the wrong questions, but since they are the standard questions,  
here my experience.  I was a homosexual parent for years before my sons knew I  
am gay.  That is, there are a lot of homosexuals out there raising children who  
don't know they are homosexual.  Does that concern you as well?  When I told my  
older (sixteen year old) son I am gay, his immediate reply was, "How many  
people know?"  After he heard the answer, he said, "I wish I had been the  
second person you told rather than the sixth."  He then asked me what's for  
lunch.  Several weeks later, he and his brother and mother sat down to dinner  
with me and my lover.  Later in the evening he stopped by again with several of  
his friends to that they could meet my lover.  When we had a chance to talk  
about it, I asked him whom he was telling, and his response was simple, "this  
is not something to hide, dad."
	All anecdotal and from a the very liberal context of Ann Arbor, but to  
paraphrase my younger son, "It's no big deal."  Lying and hiding things from  
your kids is a big deal.  Otherwise we gay parents are just like all the others  
who try to do their best.  For a completer answer to your other questions about  
whether we abuse our kids or make them homosexual, etc., I refer you to an  
excellent book, Gay Fathers.

--
Thomas Toon		Internet:  Toon@um.cc.umich.edu
Program in Linguistcs	NeXTmail:  tt@saxon.ling.lsa.umich.edu
1076 Frieze Building	313-764-0353
Ann Arbor, Mi 48109
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Date: 11 Nov 92 02:20:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov11.022035.7781
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <CORWIN+.92Nov10115450@MORPHEUS.CIMDS.RI.CMU.EDU> corwin+@CMU.EDU (Scott Safier) writes:
>Gee Steve, another reason that Scanlan's article stated for kicking
>students out (this time women students) was that they were too
>overweight.  Do you think that a person's weight is a reason to
>discriminate against them?  Do you think that "overweight" people
>should try "acting" thin?

If it works, please let me know. :-)  There is always casting against
type, but that only serves to affirm the concept of "type".

>As Scanlan says in his article, "...many of the euphemisms are the
>same: "not grounded", "light", "soft".  Sometimes, euphemisms are
>skipped altogether.  Said one teacher, still on staff at CMU, to a
>gay student after a recent scene. "You're playing a young man, not a
>young girl."  And that is homophobia,

Is it?  Would "Butch it up, hon" have been better?

>for what Anthony McKay (prof at
>CMU) and Mel Shapiro (past chair of Drama, now at UCLA) don't
>understand it's not like a New York accent: those "mannerisms" and
>"affectations" are connected to the very essence of who someone is.
>The business will do what it will do with these young men, as it does
>to all of us, but for the school to say, "Don't bring those colors
>into your work" is asking these young actors to work without their souls." 

They're being asked to put them aside while they're in front of
an audience.  Isn't that what actors get paid to do?  If someone
has a speech impediment, is it "discrimination" not to hire her
for a major speaking role?

I think there's a fine line to be drawn here, and I'm not saying that
what you're describing is or isn't "homophobia"; I'm merely saying that
in general if someone can't act, they might not be qualified for some
drama schools (by their own criteria.)  You'd think that there would be
room enough for everyone.  The question is whether this guy's actions
reflect a systematic bias against gay people versus um, people of
flamboyance, or for that matter, whether other criteria or "affectations"
relevant to being able to act successfully have been overlooked.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu (William Hsu)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Movie Review - "Marquis"
Date: 6 Nov 92 00:11:55 GMT
Reply-To: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu

In article <1992Nov5.090748.20130@reed.edu>  writes:
> I just saw an interesting new French movie: "Marquis". It's a farce
> based on the life of the Marquis de Sade, during the time that he was
> in the Bastille right before the French Revolution.

But Nelson, you didn't even mention the scene with the lobster.

Fortunately, lobsters are naturally hairless, so duct tape is
quite unnecessary.

(Despite Nelson's calm, restrained review of "Marquis", it happens
to be one of the funniest movies I've ever seen. Don't miss it.)

Bill
From: wlp@calmasd.Prime.COM (Walt  Peterson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Colorado Addresses
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:26:16 GMT
Organization: Computervision Corporation, San Diego R&D

}As to Coors advertising in the Advocate - boycott the Advocate until
}they pull their Coors ads.


Also "Christopher Street".





-- 
Walter L. Peterson                    |                 ______
Internet   : wlp@calmasd.Prime.COM    |       Silence   \    /   Action
CompuServe : 70441,3177               |          =       \  /      =
"Generic Disclaimer"                  |        Death      \/      Life
From: snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Pink dollar, red circle slash...
Date: 5 Nov 92 10:19:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Nov5.101922.16183
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR

Here is what I would like to see.  When entering into a business I 
would like for the owners to place a sign on the door which depicts a
Pink Dollar Bill.  This would mean that this owner is happy to
service the GBLO community!

Reasons;

1.  I am tired of spending money at stores which turn out to be fronts
for rightwing organizations.

2.  I want to support gay positive businesses.


People who are opposed to the GBLO community could have a picture
on their entrances showing a pink dollar bill with a red circle
slash running through it.

1.  This would help those morally opposed to us to not be hypocritical
    since taking our dirty money must be a sin!

2.  I makes sure we quit funding the right wing war machine!


We need to control where our money goses!!

Bil Snodgrass III
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The Shoe Fits (was Re: Social Democracy)
Date: 8 Nov 92 01:29:42 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Nov7.232421.20307@panix.com> mara@panix.com
(Mara Chibnik) writes:

>You know who:
>  >> And I've always depended on the kindness of strangers.

>adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson): 
> >OK, boys, put the straightjacket on him and let's
> >get him out of here.

>The next game is five card stud.

Hey, grab me a Bud while yer up, OK?

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
<>  <>  <> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <>  <>  <>
From: broughton@lambda.usask.ca
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Good news, Good news, Bad news and revenge
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:01:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: access.1992Nov5.180114.15162
Reply-To: broughton@lambda.usask.ca ()
Organization: University of Saskatchewan

In article <1992Nov4.213302.12923@gordian.com>, mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
|>In article <1992Nov4.203245.156@PacBell.COM>, rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
|>> I hope that L/G Ski Week in Aspen -- I was planning to attend
|>> in '93 :-( -- moves to Lake Tahoe...
|>
|>  My feelings exactly. Unfortunately, Tom Chatt's mother already 
|>booked our tickets :-( :-(

If you really care about helping the situation in Colorado, you would cancel
your bookings. This will reduce to a minimum the amount of money that you are
putting into Colorado's economy.

Otherwise, you are not really supporting the struggle, you are just giving it
lip service.

Darrell
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dgilly@us.oracle.com (Daniel Gilly)
Subject: Re: Teledildonics
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Redwood Shores CA 94065
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 20:16:44 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Nov5.081322.16312@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu 
   (Nelson Minar) writes:
>bleah, shame on you for using this word for the Subject line, Jack.

It is a nonsense word, isn't it?  What's it *supposed* to mean?
Sounds like virtual reality phone sex.
-- 
Daniel Gilly                                   dgilly@us.oracle.com 
                                               Oracle Corporation
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Pink dollar, red circle slash... pink fade
Date: 10 Nov 92 10:07:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Nov10.100710.15470
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR


My whole point wasn't to show people where there money came from 
but to start directing our money back into our own communities of
business.  We number one will support our own and number two not help
our enemies out.

We have just fought a couple of battles of what will be a long
war and it would be nice to start being a little more
supportive of our community.

Bil
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: more faces for the soc.motss photo archive
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 13:47:58 GMT


In article <thaaang.721563206@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu
(John Dorrance) writes:

>dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>>j/john_dorrance_uncensored.gif	Now it can be shown

>This could very well affect my political carreer.

I would hope it did!  You're the kind of person I would
like to see in office: my office, and right now, if you
please!

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
<>  <>  <> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <>  <>  <>
From: markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Lou News.
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:29:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45370
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

In article <1992Nov6.084853.2221@nwnexus.WA.COM> elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg) writes:
>
>   Heard on the radio:
>
>   Lou Mabon today was quoted as saying that he was "very encouraged"
    ^^^
aaaaaarrrrrrgggggggg!!!!!!!!

You mean that Lon (The Lonster to his friends) has a brother!

Oh, a typo.

Mabon will have trouble getting anything going for the next six to
twelve months here in Oregon.  We will continue to organize and we
must organize even better to defeat him next time.  However, I think
that organizing around helping Colorado and oppressed minorities
here in Oregon will be the plan.  We will no longer allow the threat
of the OCA dictate how and why we organize.  Instead we will become
proactive.  I strongly encourage communities which are not already
organized or organizing to rally around Colorado and begin the kind
of national coalition building which will be required to defeat the
fundies before they can gain the forum of the ballot.  The CHFO
campaign has stated that coalition building with other oppressed
minorities in Oregon were very key elements in the campaign.  The
outpouring of support from the Black communities and the migrant
farm workers (and their union, yea!) and Native American and others
helped to forge strong bonds of cooperation.  That these communities
reached out to us before being asked was inspiring.

Being a mostly clueless white boy, I was rather amazed to find the
level of bigotry and intimidation which is heaped on all minorities
in Oregon.  The ghastly things not covered by the mainstream press
would make Amnesty International cringe (and why aren't they
cringing, I wonder?).  We all came to realize that this isn't a battle
of ending discrimination against homosexuals, this is a battle of
ending discrimination - period.

While I have always known that there is no equity for many people
in this country, this campaign has made me appreciate why I need
to become involved in the causes of others (actually, if you think about
it, they are my cause as well).  We as a community need to go to other
oppressed groups and ask how we can help AT THEIR DIRECTION and
UNDER THEIR CONTROL.  Everyone needs to help each other but be
sensitive to the need to let the each group direct their own efforts.

Boy, did I get off the subject, or what?

Sorry to rant, but I have been holding this in for 18 months and
had to start venting some place.

I honestly thought I gave up activism in '86.  Now I know that
I cannot give it up ever again.  Democracy, like the Republican's
concept of national security, depends on active vigilence.

<sigh>

--mark
--
Mark Morrissey           One Hatred to rule them all.  One Hatred to find them.
markm@cse.ogi.edu        One Hatred to bring them all and in the darkness bind
                         them.  In the land of Bigotry where the Shadows lie.
From: mush@craycos.com (Randy Murrish)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Colorado Addresses
Date: 9 Nov 92 15:54:51 GMT
	<Nov.6.11.49.03.1992.20189@andromeda.rutgers.edu>
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <Nov.6.11.49.03.1992.20189@andromeda.rutgers.edu> 
lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Louie Crew) writes:

>   lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax) writes:
>
>   >As to Coors advertising in the Advocate - boycott the Advocate until
>   >they pull their Coors ads.
>
>   Which one of us is au courrant?  A gay bishop just called me to say that 
>   Coors is making many financial contributions to lesbigay causes to distance 
>   the Company from bad decisions the Coors family had made for many years.
>   The bishop also told me that the Coors family no longer has any control over
>   the decisions of the Coors Company.  
>
>   Is he wrong?

The Coors family owns a minority stake in the company, but they have
the largest single voting block.  What the family wants, they usually
get.  Peter Coors is very conservative (a member of the Republican
inner circle) and is (I consider) very homophobic.  

>   I'm not going to give up my martinis for a bloated tummy, but I do want to
>   know who my enemies are.

Stick with the martinis, they're classy!.

>   Louie/Quean Luti

And so it goes...Randy

>     ==========================================================================
>     Louie Crew, Assoc. Prof., Academic Foundations Dept., Rutgers U./NWK 07102
>     lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu                                   201-485-4503
>
			       Closets are for prayer!
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cray Computer Corporation                                Randy Murrish
1110 Bayfield Drive                                   mush@craycos.com
Colorado Springs, CO 80906                                719.540.4274
From: jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Twice Fucked (Colorado gays)
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:08:12 GMT
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyles, Inc.


Robert Coren (coren@speed.osf.org) wrote:
 
> For whatever reason, the Colorado initiative got less press nationwide
> than the Oregon one (which didn't get a whole hell of a lot, either,
> but it did get some).

Indeed that's true, but it may be worth bearing
in mind that they were likely perceived differently
as well.

On Wednesday I told a friend that OR:9 was defeated,
but I was upset that CO:2 had passed.  "But", he
said, "the Colorado amendment wasn't nearly as *bad*
as the Oregon amendment, was it?"  He got quite an
earful for that remark.

But it reminded me that for OR:9 it was much easier 
to convince people that it was hateful and a bad thing
in general, whereas CO:2, particularly *by* *comparison*, 
seemed much more agreeable since it 'merely' denied 
'special rights' to homosexuals.

If the right-wing-facist tactic was to see just how much
they could get away with, I think we've seen.

--jns
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: balistik@big-brother.nevada.edu (Shawn Hicks)
Subject: Re: accepting
Organization: Not yet, but we're working on it...
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:43:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.200423.8814@psych.toronto.edu>, paul@psych.toronto.edu (Paul Hastings) writes:

>At this point, she couldn't hold back the laughter any more than
>I could.  Kept us goin' 'til dessert.
>Laughing with me, making the same kinds of jokes I make with my
>friends, good ol' Mom showed a level of comfort I had always 
>hoped she'd one day reach.
>Made me feel good.  So I thought I'd share that feeling.
>Cheers!
>-paul

My dad's wife and I used to go down to the art show in Santa Barbara
on sunday's and we spent most of the time pointing out cute butts, 
especially on motorcycles.  We seem to have similar tastes.

My dad isn't as comfortable as his wife is with my queerness.  



Shawn
From: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Gay Wealth (was: My Letter to Colorado)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 02:09:02 GMT
Reply-To: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca

In article <1992Nov05.204941.21570@watson.ibm.com>  
jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin) writes:

> articles in the NY Times have already shown that America's gay
> population has a significantly larger percentage of disposable income.
> the average heterosexual household makes around $35,000 while the
> average gay male household makes around $55,000.

I absolutely *hate* having this statistic bandied about. The fact is, it  
is mostly the wealthy that have the ABILITY to set up something that could  
be described as a "gay household". Money and status buys freedom,  
particularly the freedom to be out of the closet.

If I were in the position of *not* having the right to set up a "gay  
household" because my rednecked coworkers at the auto repair shop would  
drive me out of the only job I could hope to have, I'd be bloody pissed  
off at this rather smarmy statistic.

IMHO, there are probably more gays in low-paying jobs than in the  
professions; it's just that they can't stick their necks out for fear of  
having their heads chopped off.

-Anthony

Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.bbs.lists,soc.bi
From: glenns@tronsbox.xei.com (Glenn S.)
Subject: Re: GayCom (was: The Gay & Lesbian BBS List -- November 1992)
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 19:18:47 GMT

In article <1df3j3INNgdf@plts.uucp> tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli) writes:

>A lot of the local gay BBSs have some sort of fidonet-like connection
>called "GayCom".  Does anyone know if there is a way to get to those
>BBSs from the Internet?

Hmm... doubtful.  Unless one of the BBS' is also on the Internet/uunet 
somehow, I don't think you're going to find them here.  (Plus, from what
I've seen of GayCom, it's not worth it.  It's a bunch of guys sitting around
dissing each other.  If you want good gay chatter, stick around, or go and grab
ICGAL or GAYCHAT or GAYNEWS off of FIDOnet.....)
 
Talk to you soon, luv!
 
B*B
Glenn

-- 
+-----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| Bright Blessings from Glenn Sieb! | glenns@tronsbox.xei.com       Internet|
| Eye of Newt, Toe of Frog and a    | Glenn Sieb  1:107/869          FIDOnet|
| side of fries    ... please!      | Glenn Sieb  93:9400/5           PODnet|
+-----------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
From: wanek@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Wanek)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:04:38 GMT
Subject: Gay Ski Week boycott?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: soc.motss

Does anyone know who sponsors the Gay Ski Week in Aspen, and whether
there is a campaign to boycott it?
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Gerbiling and acceptance of other peoples' info. !!
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 09:00:52 GMT

frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney) writes:

>In article <1992Nov4.185137.13036@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>Although she herself, speaking French, would have said
>>that's another pair of sleeves.

>And, btw, what would she have said in German, having once
>been a minor German princess herself?

'I'm a minor German princess myself, but...'

--
John Dorrance        * Sexyfunky Motherfuckerdiva *   thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

		I bet if you threw that ass into the air
			It'd turn into sunshine!
From: jpt@telecaster.think.com (James P. Taylor)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Scott Masden
Date: 11 Nov 92 12:35:52
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: telecaster.think.com
In-reply-to: danny.ingram@business.gatech.edu's message of 11 Nov 92 15:57:22 GMT

In article <74428@hydra.gatech.EDU> danny.ingram@business.gatech.edu (Danny Ingram) writes:


   Another short respite from the CO2 war...

	Does anyone remember Scott Masden, the deliciously androgynous Soloflex
   model who changed America's vision of the perfect male body and graced the 
   walls of gay apartments from NY to LA?  I wonder why we haven't seen any more 
   of his curvasceous form in the advertising world?  Marky Mark may be nice, be
   he can't hold a well-sculpted candle to Scottie.

While I agree with the rest of the post and I sure do remember him
[..except he doesn't grace my walls -- sigh] why do you say he was
andorgynous?  He weren't no bear, but ...


jim
From: jtroxel@carson.u.washington.edu (Joseph Troxel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: homophobia on the net - rec.arts.movies
Date: 10 Nov 92 22:02:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov10.220222.21141
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <Nov.10.15.07.43.1992.22084@math.rutgers.edu> bgonzal@math.rutgers.edu (Bil Gonzalez) writes:

>I think I just came out big time on the net with my follow-up to this
>posting:

>> You Can't Stop The Music: Oh god, the pain, the pain. The Village People,
>> Valerie Perrine, the immortal singing Olympic hero, Bruce Jenner!
>> Known to the crew as "You Can't Stop the Faggots", this bombed big time.

As it should have.

>> Big, brassy, empty headed, and offensively contrived, it reveals
>> that the secret fantasies of the <obviously gay> Village People
>> consists of lame heterosexual voyeurism. 

Stupid idea to begin with.

>> Alienated breeders and gays alike by the hundreds. 

>I found this very offensive.  Yes, I agree that the movie wasn't very
>good, but the language this man uses to describe it just screams of
>homophobia.  

Nonsense. You mean because he refers to breeders? or because he suggests
that The Village People were talentless? What a newsflash!!

>I don't know...Does anyone have any comments regarding this?

There's a full moon today, and we're all tired after the last few months
of politics (hatred) as usual. Take a long bath and you'll feel better.