HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: swaim@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Parks Swaim)
Subject: Re: Sexism in Gaming
Organization: Rice University
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 12:44:52 GMT

In article <QeoUCFe00WB75N6EF3@andrew.cmu.edu> "Cynthia K. Neelan" <cn0n+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>things ARE improving.
>
>Problem I)  Lack of Female NPC's
  We have this to a lesser extent in our campaign. Some of us don't have women
NPC's, but not all of us.


>with something else.  A member of the party kept saying "check for
>traps".  I said that I would when I was finished with whatever else I
>was doing.  Then he turned to the DM and said "She checks for Traps".
>Usually the DM would just roll as though I had performed the task.
  Bad DM call. I'd tell the DM that I wouldn't check for traps unless
I explicitly said so. But then I can be nasty.

>
>IN DEFENCE OF MY MALE COUNTERPARTS:
> Two men in separate campaigns decided to play women characters.
>Cool.  I was surprised.
  I generally play females, because no one else will. I knew a woman
who only played male characters. Go figure.



-- 
Mike Swaim            | Canada will become the next world power
swaim@owlnet.rice.edu | and they will work to ENSLAVE all the nations
Disclamer: I lie      | of your planet. -Ricardo
Cthulhu in '92! The stars are right!
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: jjohnson@ccscola.Columbia.NCR.COM (Jeffrey H. Johnson)
Subject: Re: game vs reality simulation
Organization: NCR CCSD Columbia SC
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 92 20:52:21 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.153114.20823@news.columbia.edu> jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim) writes:

[stuff deleted]

>	I understand that SJ probably does not like the abstractness of 
>high skill or good hits generally increasing damage (as in Ars Magica or 
>Storyteller), but this mixed solution is rather inconsistent. 

[more deleted]

>	The only suggestions that I have seen have been: 
>
>1) Shots to the 'Torso' which hit by 4 become shots to the 'Vitals'. 
>	(by Mikko Somone-or-other)
>2) HT rolls for conciousness and dying of 14+ automatically fail (like 
>    Will rolls). 
>	(sorry - attribution lost)
>3) A cumulative -1 penalty to rolls vs dying after the first, and a 
>    penalty of the number of hits one is negative to rolls to remain 
>    concious. 
>	(by me)

Instead of doing the Torso-by-4 -> Vitals rule, you could try giving
an extra point of damage for every 1 (or 2, or...) point(s) the attack
roll succeeded by.  Trade 4 points to 1d, or 7 to 2d.  This also has the
effect of making very high skill less necessary in the hands of high ST
characters, which is how I think it should be.  I mean, if Conan hits me
hard with his broadsword, how much worse is it going to feel if he slices
precisely?  Of course, this point can be argued (and I'm sure it will be),
so I'll make a request to not argue, and only use it if you like it. :)

>	I think all of these are reasonable and useful suggestions. 

I hope you'll add this one to the list.

[other stuff deleted]

>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>John Kim                    | Alice: "But if I wasn't real, I shouldn't be
>jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu | able to cry."  Tweedledum: "I hope you don't
>Columbia University         | imagine those are *real* tears."

Jeff
--
Jeffrey H. Johnson
jjohnson@ccscola.columbiasc.ncr.com

		"More human than human is our motto."
			-- Dr. Eldon Tyrell
From: maxxon@swob.nullnet.fi (Mikko Kurki-Suonio)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: game vs reality simulation
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 92 10:21:19 EDZ
Distribution: world
Organization: Sweet Oblivion

jjohnson@ccscola.Columbia.NCR.COM (Jeffrey H. Johnson) writes:

> In article <1992Oct6.153114.20823@news.columbia.edu> jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.
> >1) Shots to the 'Torso' which hit by 4 become shots to the 'Vitals'. 
> >	(by Mikko Somone-or-other)
> Instead of doing the Torso-by-4 -> Vitals rule, you could try giving
> an extra point of damage for every 1 (or 2, or...) point(s) the attack
> roll succeeded by.  Trade 4 points to 1d, or 7 to 2d.  This also has the
> effect of making very high skill less necessary in the hands of high ST
> characters, which is how I think it should be.  I mean, if Conan hits me
> hard with his broadsword, how much worse is it going to feel if he slices
> precisely?  Of course, this point can be argued (and I'm sure it will be),
> so I'll make a request to not argue, and only use it if you like it. :)

Won't help much with firearms, since nearly all guns are capable of
blowthrough damage on a normal torso hit (no armor)...


--------
maxxon@swob.nullnet.fi (Mikko Kurki-Suonio)
Sweet Oblivion (+358 0 8092678, V.32bis 8N1) Official SRP Headquarters


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: urban@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Art Urban (PROFS))
Subject: Re: game vs reality simulation
Organization: Atmospheric Technology Division/NCAR Boulder, CO
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:57:34 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.153114.20823@news.columbia.edu> jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim) writes:
%	The only suggestions that I have seen have been: 
%
%1) Shots to the 'Torso' which hit by 4 become shots to the 'Vitals'. 
%	(by Mikko Somone-or-other)
%2) HT rolls for conciousness and dying of 14+ automatically fail (like 
%    Will rolls). 
%	(sorry - attribution lost)
%3) A cumulative -1 penalty to rolls vs dying after the first, and a 
%    penalty of the number of hits one is negative to rolls to remain 
%    concious. 
%	(by me)

Okay, here's another suggestion:

 4) HT rolls to avoid dying are made at -1 for every 5 points of damage
 already taken.

 5) HT rolls to avoid knockout due to blows to the head are made at -1 for
 every 5 points of basic damage (before armor) done.

 Our group hasn't really tested these changes, but we have discussed them.


--
Art Urban 					       urban@stout.atd.ucar.edu
===============================================================================
 "Oh no! The canary exploded!"                                      -Tom Servo 
===============================================================================
From: dseal@armltd.co.uk (David Seal)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: GURPS Skills
Date: 8 Oct 92 10:34:16 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: A.R.M. Ltd, Swaffham Bulbeck, Cambs, UK

In article <07OCT92.18494704.0067@VM1.MCGILL.CA> CX6L@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
(CX6L000) writes:

>... I offer an alternative.
>This is being composed at the keyboard, and has never been play-
>tested, so there are bound to be holes. Here goes...
>
>When a character buys a skill, do not just record the final level,
>but also where it stands relative to the underlying stat. Then,
>in any situation where the skill is directly contested by a
>skill of another character, apply these numbers as modifiers to
>the skill level. This would not apply to simple "use" rolls of
>the skill: just contests. ...

I like this idea a lot - in particular, it reflects the possibility that a
high stat, low points-invested character may be good at getting the right
answer, yet too "slow" to do so well when there is active opposition.
Defaults would be particularly bad in a contest with someone who has
received any training at all, which is probably just as it should be :-)

One question: am I right in believing that you would only count combat as a
contest in situations like Feints, where the rules specifically mention a
contest? The reason I ask is that the attack and defence rolls are of course
effectively a slow contest of skills, and combat is probably the most
important area where min/maxing produces high stat characters, due to the
high cost of physical skills. On the other hand, allowing the bonus/penalty
on ordinary attack rolls would probably make characters' effective combat
skills increase too rapidly - i.e. twice as fast as they do at present.

Anyway, this idea is going on my list of possible campaign rules for any
future campaigns I run. Thanks!

David Seal
dseal@armltd.co.uk

All opinions are mine only...
From: hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: GURPS: Munchkin racial package
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:14:25 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle


<bingcros@leland.Stanford.EDU> writes:
 > It's taken years and years of careful research and development, but
 > the infamous Munchkins.  Now players can make 100 point characters
 > that will outshine any other non-Munchkin with only a few measly
 > role-playing drawbacks (that can be mostly ignored anyway).          

[MUNCHKIN description deleted for brevity]

Hmm, this looks like a very lonely fellow. (The MUNCHKIN or the author, take
your pick. :-0 )

The Duchy of Lululand, terrorized by the odious MUNCHKIN (who nobody can      
stand), dispatches a force of 100 hand-picked Knights to deal with the beast.
The MUNCHKIN, driven to terrible anger by this challenge, succumbs to blood
lust and attacks the column of mounted knights while shouting nasty comments
about inbred, incestuous nobility. Seeing that honor has no meaning in this
context, the Knights charge the low-life and run him through with their lances.
(After suffering a few dozen losses, of course.)

After the battle is finished, the skull of the MUNCHKIN is suspended over an
acid bath to prevent regeneration. With his 21 IQ, M. MUNCHKIN realizes he was
a total fool and should have taken Revolting Appearance instead of Bloodlust.

-- 
 Bob Hall,                 | "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
 Workstation Peripheral    | Then give up. No use being a damn fool about it."
 Boeing Computer Services  |                                     -Groucho Marx
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: thor@daimi.aau.dk (Torsten J|rgensen)
Subject: How does the split of .frp work?
Organization: DAIMI: Computer Science Department, Aarhus University, Denmark
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 07:54:08 GMT

I've been away from the net for a while and the last time I read any news,
rec.games.frp was all there was, though the discussion about splitting it up
was red hot.

So what happened. It seems like .frp is still there, or is it going to be
closed down?
Then there is all the other groups (.advocacy, .announce, .misc etc.). I can't
really make out from the names, what's supposed to be posted where, and I might
wery well have put this posting in a bad place. If so, I apologize.

Could anyone fill me in on where to post/read what?


	----THOR----

P.S. It seems, by the way, to me that the majority of posts just shifted from
rec.games.frp to rec.games.frp.misc, or am I wrong?

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: sos@oz.plymouth.edu (Steffan O'Sullivan)
Subject: First Gaming System
Reply-To: sos@oz.plymouth.edu (Steffan O'Sullivan)
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, N.H.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 21:38:36 GMT

Someone asked about people whose first RPGs were not *D&D.  I'm one.
My first game was B&B:  I GMed, and none of the five players had even
heard of RPGs before.  I didn't actually *play* in my first RPG for
over a year, and even then it wasn't *D&D, but T&T, then TFT and Gamma
World.  I only tried *D&D a half dozen times under 3 different DMs and
never understood what was going on . . .

How has it shaped my gaming?  That's really hard to say - you can't
start over with *D&D and compare if there's a difference, you know.  I
don't like hack'n'slash playing, but I'm not sure I would even if I had
started with *D&D.  I still love B&B, and will run or play it at the drop
of a hat.

As to who I play with: people as close to my age as I can find, which
isn't very close, alas.  The best I can do regularly are people around
30 years old, which is a good dozen years younger than I am.  They are
friends outside of the gaming nights, too.  I also like a gaming group
with some women in it - it feels unbalanced otherwise.

Someone else said that Sorceror's Apprentice shaped his opinion of what
a good gaming magazine should be - I'll second that!  What a great
magazine, what a sorry loss to the industry when it died!  If anyone
has #1 they want to sell, that's the only issue I don't have, and would
love to buy a copy . . .

-- 
  - Steffan O'Sullivan		         sos@oz.plymouth.edu
From: tdunn@ecst.csuchico.edu (Tim Dunn)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: What is the best Psionics system?
Date: 13 Oct 92 02:29:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: charnel.1bdcb0INN3mi
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu

Sea Wasp writes:
>I write:
>>FGU's Other Suns seemed to the the first one that I saw, and I liked it.
>The best system I've seen for good and powerful psionics was Space Opera.

My god, we agreed on something!  (Aside from liking anime, that is.)  
My brain was on neutral, sorry.  Yep, it was Space Opera, not Other Suns.
a very (IMPO) whole and well thought out system for maintaining the 
mystery and atmosphere of psionics.  Definitely worth looking for.

-- 
Another good night not to sleep in a eucalyptus tree.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: ericg@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Eric Chris Garrison)
Subject: Re: Sexism in Gaming
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:15:24 GMT

In article <Bvr4qt.1wt@rice.edu> swaim@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Parks Swaim) writes:
>In article <QeoUCFe00WB75N6EF3@andrew.cmu.edu> "Cynthia K. Neelan" <cn0n+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>IN DEFENCE OF MY MALE COUNTERPARTS:
>> Two men in separate campaigns decided to play women characters.
>>Cool.  I was surprised.
>  I generally play females, because no one else will. I knew a woman
>who only played male characters. Go figure.

I play either sex (and neither in a couple cases) fairly randomly.
Just depends on what comes to mind first.  

Something interesting, though, a lot of people are startled to find
that I play females.  One group I was with frowned on it enough
that after a night of play (at the GM's suggestion) I changed the
gender of 'Helga' to male... 'Sven'.

I thought it was just men who'd be surprised, but recently I had a
couple of women go "you're playing a female?  Really?  huh."  I
must admit the women who are surprised are more pleasantly 
surprised than they guys (who often think it is 'weird', or
edge away from me unless they know me well enough already).

After all, the object of roleplaying (for some) is to be someone
other than yourself for a time.  What better way to be really
different than to play another gender?

Anyone else get negative or startled reactions to playing the
opposite or neutral sex?

BTW, the non-gendered people I played were androids and animals
(a cybernetic alaskan husky in a cyerpunk game, who is close
enough, even if he's male, he's not close enough in species
to matter...).  Anyone else have examples of non-gendered (N)PC's?

Eric
-- 
Eric Chris Garrison			      UCS Support Center
ericg@ucs.indiana.edu			      Indiana University
From: 9111123@ul.ie
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: RE: RFD:rec.games.mecha& a request
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:04:25 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland


  AS far as I can remember Adeptus Titanicus is now out of production,it now
forms part of the _new_ Space Marine (6mm wargame) .

  Still the folder idear sounds good to me.

 P.S. Any one outthere got Twilight 1st ed



********************************************************************************
*Pat Mathews,    : " Four things greater than all things are,                  *
* 9111123@ul.ie  :    Women and hores and power and War "                      *
*                :     Rudyard Kipling (maker of exceedingly good cakes;)      *
*I would be very surprised if anyone else shared my views:Disclaimer           *
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: mgrossman@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: Re: System for Newbie GM
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 18:03:12 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.004721.9794@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, tmartin@nyx.cs.du.edu (Thomas Martin) writes:
> 
> 	I have introduced a player to Call of Cthulhu and he has
> previous experience in Dungeons and Dragons (doesn't everyone?) He's
> an excellent roleplayer and has a vivid imagination. I'm sure that
> he'd love to run a CoC game, or even an AD&D game, but I want to wean
> the rest of the group off of AD&D and fantasy based roleplay.
> 
> 	Is it wise to GM from scratch with a system that he doesn't
> know? Or should he go with something more familiar? He's willing to
> learn anything.
> 
> 	Thanks.

	IMHO, I don't think that CoC is a good game to introduce a novice GM
to, as I have found it to be rather different from most roleplaying games, and
quite difficult to run if you are used to "heroic fantasy"-type games.  I think
that at first it would probably be best for him to run a game that he is 
familiar with as a player, which in this case would be AD&D.  If that works 
out, then by all means let him at Call of Cthulhu!



Arthur Wilberforce III, consulting detective
-"I wrestle the insane party members to the ground!"
-"ALL of them?"


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: durrell@pinball.arcade.uiowa.edu (Bryant Durrell)
Subject: Re: Storyteller System (Was:  WereVamp->Ars)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 02:11:19 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa

In article <1992Oct7.190650@cs.man.ac.uk> peterw@cs.man.ac.uk (Peter Wake) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.151740.28086@news.uiowa.edu>, urrell@pinball.arcade.uiowa.edu (Bryant Durrell) writes
>The point is by trying to create a certain type of character
>concept you can accidentally create a *monster*.  On the other hand
>NPCs and characters that you can create that look strong because they
>have high stats and lots of high disciplines can easily fall to such a
>monster.  

Let's agree to disagree here, maybe?  I don't think I can convince
you on this point.  It seems to come back to something I've been
saying a lot -- Vampire is different.  This kind of problem will
fade away as you get used to the game.  After my share of mistakes,
I have a much better idea of what a monster looks like.

>Furthermore *any* vampire can spend blood points to increase
>stats in combat.  Spend a few and put your Stamina up to 7 and you are
>tough to wound.  If you do such a thing are you a Munchkin?  Not
>necessarily I think.  Fact is Sta 7 is a million times better than Sta
>6 while Sta 8 is *no* better than 7 at all!  This is not caused by
>Munchkins, this is caused by lousy rules and you don't have to be a
>Munchkin to appreciate that.

Yeah, the base rules are faulty here.  The Vampire mailing list
seems to have decided that a very nice house rule is to limit
Blood Pool raises to the normal maximum stat level.  Since stat
levels are justified by sheer physical inability to be any better,
this makes a certain amount of sense.

Bryant Durrell
durrell@chop.isca.uiowa.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Subject: Re: game vs reality simulation
Reply-To: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:28:10 GMT

urban@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Art Urban (PROFS)) writes:
>jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim) writes:
>%1) Shots to the 'Torso' which hit by 4 become shots to the 'Vitals'. 
>%2) HT rolls for conciousness and dying of 14+ automatically fail (like 
>%    Will rolls). 
>%3) A cumulative -1 penalty to rolls vs dying after the first, and a 
>%    penalty of the number of hits one is negative to rolls to remain 
>%    concious. 
>
> 4) HT rolls to avoid dying are made at -1 for every 5 points of damage
> already taken.

	This is pretty darn similar to my suggestion #3, since rolls to 
resist dying are made every 5HT, except that the first roll to resist 
dying is made at -4 or more. I think this is going a bit far. If you 
really want to make things more deadly, then perhaps start dying checks 
once you pass 0 HT rather than once you pass -HT. 

>
> 5) HT rolls to avoid knockout due to blows to the head are made at -1 for
> every 5 points of basic damage (before armor) done.

	Good idea. Also applies to crushing damage to the vitals. 

------------
jjohnson@ccscola.Columbia.NCR.COM (Jeffrey H. Johnson) writes:
>Instead of doing the Torso-by-4 -> Vitals rule, you could try giving
>an extra point of damage for every 1 (or 2, or...) point(s) the attack
>roll succeeded by.  Trade 4 points to 1d, or 7 to 2d.  This also has the
>effect of making very high skill less necessary in the hands of high ST
>characters, which is how I think it should be.  

	Hmmm. Two suggestions. First of all, you have to reduce basic 
damage to do this and still get results consistent with the present 
system. Second, I think that perhaps you should scale the damage bonus 
with how big the weapon is. No need for a complicated chart of 
percentages, just add +1 for every die of damage. 

	This would give something like: 
- Scale all basic damage down to 3/4 of its present value. 
- If roll made by:      			    Blowthrough:
		0,1	Basic damage			 HT
		2,3	+1 per die			 HT
		4,5	+2 per die (+2 bonus -> +3) 	1.5xHT
		6+	Double damage			 2xHT

	This is closer to the current vitals rules, but with less of a 
sharp break. Were I to use it, I would do so for all parts of the body 
- and leave the eyes, brain, and vitals off the location table. The 
damage maxima on limbs still means that you have to hit the torso to 
do large damage. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kim                    | "It seems, gentlemen, that the universe is 
jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu | larger than we previously imagined."
Columbia University         |       - Einstein in 'The Proteus Operation'
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: What is the best Psionics system?
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:34:01 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@unixd2.cis.pitt.edu

In article <1bdcb0INN3mi@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> tdunn@ecst.csuchico.edu (Tim Dunn) writes:
>Sea Wasp writes:
>>I write:
>>>FGU's Other Suns seemed to the the first one that I saw, and I liked it.
>>The best system I've seen for good and powerful psionics was Space Opera.

>My god, we agreed on something!  (Aside from liking anime, that is.)  

	Don't worry, it probably won't become a habit! :)

>My brain was on neutral, sorry.  Yep, it was Space Opera, not Other Suns.
>a very (IMPO) whole and well thought out system for maintaining the 
>mystery and atmosphere of psionics.  Definitely worth looking for.

	Yeah, I use the SO psi system in virtually ALL my games, SO,
AD&D, etc... it works smoothly and makes it possible to create ANY kind
of PSI, from the Spock "can barely read your mind when touching you"
to the Charlie McGee "FIRESTARTER" or even the "I fry his brain at
2 light years" type.

	Other Suns had only one REALLY neat thing in it from my point of
view: the excruciatingly detailed racial descriptions. Makes all the other
systems' racial descriptions look pretty weak by comparison. Of course,
making UP a race in OS could take you years...


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: cpearce@nemesis.acs.unt.edu (Chris Pearce)
Subject: Thanks Loyd!
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 19:32:53 GMT

I recently began playing in a GURPS Cyberpunk campaign. I'm definitely no
GURPS fan, but this campaign has been extremely enjoyable, in part
because of the well-constructed Cyber rules.

The Cyber rules make ulta-cybered characters hard to make (since my GM
charges character points AND money for cyber), while still making it
possible to add cyberwear to your characters if you wish. The rules and
background Loyd provided seem to create a believable, gritty cyberpunk
world.

Combined with GURPS' good modelling of human-level (as opposed to superhero
or highly magical, IMHO) genres, GURPS Cyberpunk provides an exciting
background in which to adventure.

Thanks Loyd for a great sourcebook!
--
Chris Pearce (hoping that this article gets to the newsgroup intact)
cpearce@nemesis.acs.unt.edu
QUIT

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy