HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jaj@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jill A. Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: margarine?
Date: 5 Jan 1993 17:59:04 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu


I dunno....I hadn't heard that margarine was so awful.  If they quit carrying it at the store I shop at I'll scream.  Anyway everything causes cancer.  My mom
is so paranoid about cancer. I think it's something to worry about but it doesn't help to kill yourself worrying.  

oh yeah, there's a couple posts here from Jill Belscamper - that's me.  I'm 
also Jill Johnson....Belscamper is my maiden name and I haven't bothered to 
change it on my other account. I hope I didn't confuse anyone. 

As far as holding the life of an animal below that of a person, I probably do 
that.  For instance, if I did have children and one of them were badly allergic
to a cat (I don't have a cat either but I want one really bad) I guess I'd 
probably try to give the cat away but I guess if I couldn't find anyone to take
it i'd have to bring it to the Humane Society.  It's doubtful I'd place the
life of a cat or dog above the lives of my family and maybe that's being a 
terrible person.  I also know though that if I did have a pet and it was 
trapped inside a burning building I'd go in after it, but I'd certainly get 
any children that I had out first.  Don't get me wrong here either...I grew
up with a cat and he eventually got old and sick and had to be put to sleep 
and I still think about him and I still miss him alot and I still get teary 
(like right now) when I think about the day I said goodbye to him.

Eating beef or chicken or whatever is a different story.  If I had to kill the 
animal myself, I wouldn't do it.  As it is, it's sort of impersonaly buying 
meat in the store.  I mean personally I never really even think that that meat
was once alive.  It doesn't really sink into your head that that hunk of 
ground beef was once a cow. Or that's how it is for me...although I must admit
I've been thinking about it alot more lately.

Sorry for babbling.

Jill
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Insulting you family?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:16:06 GMT

Bob Pitha writes:

[...]
>One thing I noticed was that people's reactions were often rather emotional;
>sometimes angry or offended, like you recount, and also occasionally
>evangelistic, as if it is that person's moral duty to save me from my 
>evil choice.  I wondered for a while why people got so emotional about
>something that was, after all, my own business, and I eventually concluded
>that they could be feeling judged, to some degree, by my choice.  Even
>though I was very careful not to make any judgemental comments, I think
>some people read it into the situation.  

This is a good observation!  Yes, I agree that this kind of implicit
criticism is pretty hard to avoid by the simple act of eating
vegetarian fare.  Food embodies a lot of cultural and social
meanings.  It also gets tied to a family history.  This is
what mom and dad provided and prided themselves in being
able to provide, right or wrong.  They worked hard and gave their
kids what they thought was good, healthy fare, the best value that 
money could buy.  Now, their kids begin to assume some autonomy over
their dietary choice.  This this can start quite early with
rigid childhood preferences and cravings.  That's not so bad, but
when they assume a vegetarian preference, well, that seems like
a repudiation of what mom and dad always provided and believed
was good and necessary for a "balanced diet".  It seems so
"radical".  :-(


>And probably some people feel
>a bit scared by the prospect; they know the health benefits of reducing or
>eliminating meat/eggs/dairy, but they're afraid they wouldn't be able to do
>it so they cover it all up with a lot of bluster.  

Yes, there is that kind of understandable defensiveness from some 
inveterate omnivores.  Hence, one sees various ploys like
denial, minimization, false cause and special pleading..
I think we see some of that even here on the net.  No names please.

To admit that one's practice was wrong is not easy, especially if
one is still tethered to old habits and not willing to contemplate
change.  


>It's probably even harder
>for a parent to face the subject, because she's in effect being told that
>the way she provided for her family over the years has been rejected as
>Wrong.  What a thing to face.
>...

Agreed.  All the more reason to introduce one's preference gently,
non-critically and with respect and love.  By setting the example,
one's parents in turn can learn from their kids.  No reason why
not.  My mother stopped smoking and is now of late a vegetarian herself.
It took many years to sink in, but eventually the information and
concrete example of her own son thriving on vegetarian fare, sank
in.  Of course, it is their choice to also continue as before, and
we can only hope for the best and allow our parents to live their
own lives just as we ask to permit us our life-style choices.

C'est la vie,

				ted

.


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: entropy@world.std.com (The Entropic one)
Subject: Re: Gay cats? *Great*! (was "vegetarian cats2...", I think)
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 07:44:58 GMT

In article <C0ArL4.K8u@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jbeason@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Joseph E. Beason) writes:
>Hmmmmm, I'm not so sure this is a good idea.
>
>Don't forget that a significant number of the newly homosexualized cats
>will be closeted, and feel they need to engage in heterosexual activity in order
>to maintain face and be respected by the larger community.
>
>Now, a vegetarian diet implemented simultaneously with a thera[putic program
>to increase self-esteem in regards to the new gay identity may be a good
>replacement for neutering.  Much less invasive, good to avoid surgery in
>fasvor of preventitive lifestyle change...

Not to mention it would cut down greatly on fighting if you have a house
full of male cats. Of course there would be other more interesting noises
:-)
-- 
------  Linux, Religion, and electronic shopping all in one place!
\    / Repent of Bean eating, MS-DOS, OS/2, and windows NT, no sales man
 \  / will hassle you, no priest will sacrifice you. Free 9600 baud download.
  \/ Call the Virtual World Information Systems BBS at 508-793-9568
From: jana@unssun.nevada.edu (Jana Dunn)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Veggie Places in the Reno/Squaw Valley Area
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:44:00 GMT
Reply-To: jana@unssun.scs.unr.edu (Jana Dunn)
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services

In article <1993Jan4.144133.24668@hou.amoco.com> zkym02@hou.amoco.com writes:
>
>
>We are off to Reno/Squaw Valley [...]
>would like to know if there are any good veggie places to eat.  
>
>Keerthi McIntosh

Keerthi, my e-mail to you bounced.

There is only one vegetarian restaurant in Reno:
	The Blue Heron
	1091 S. Virginia Street
	786-4110
This is a pleasant place, with a mostly-organic sort of menu.
The service is so laid back as to be almost horizontal.  I
think the restaurant's closed on Sundays.  Virginia street is the 
"main" street that most of the casinos are on--the restaurant is a 
mile or so south of the casinos.

There are two Indian restaurants with some vegetarian entrees.
	Sapna Indian Restaurant
	3374 Kietzke Ln 829-1537

and my very favorite, Taj Mahal Restaurant
	2255 Glendale Ave. (just past the new Hilton)
	355-9119
Very nice lunch buffet every day except Sunday.

My vegetarian officemate likes Mi Casa mexican restaurant
on second street.

You can eat breakfast in the casinos, particularly if you eat
eggs.  The food is generally good and usually very cheap.
You won't find vegetarian entrees.

I don't know about Squaw Valley restaurants; someone else will
have to help you with that.  Best of luck and enjoy your trip.
We're getting tons of snow.

jana@unssun.scs.unr.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: rs57+@andrew.cmu.edu (Ruthann Schmidt)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: GM & animal testing
Date: 5 Jan 93 16:57:34 GMT
Organization: University Libraries - Technical Service, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I don't have the name of a strictly animal rights newsgroup, so I've
posted this question here. Does anyone know the person/dept/address to
where I may send a letter to GM concerning the company's use of live
animals in testing? You can either send email to me or post to the group.

Thanx,
Ruth Ann
Pittsburgh, PA
From: tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: yet more questions
Date: 5 Jan 1993 22:42:55 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, Chesapeake Biological Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: starburst.umd.edu

jaj@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jill A. Johnson) writes:

>Can someone please send out a glossary to the list or to me personally telling
>what exactly all these terms such as OCTO-Vegetarian and LACTO-OCTO and 
>whatever else I'm missing.  :)  I figured out the LACTO, but the others I'm
>having trouble with. Thanks.

Sure Jill!

I think you mean OVO instead of OCTO.  An ovo-vegetarian is one who is
vegetarian who also eats eggs.  Lacto refers to milk of course, as
well as other dairy products including cheese.  Ovo-lacto-veg is a veg
who eats cheese and eggs.  Vegan is one who is a complete vegetarian,
eating no dairy or eggs, but who may or may not eat honey.  Fruitarian
is someone who eats only fruit or a part of the plant that does not
kill it. 

There is also a macrobiotic diet which is hard to describe.  In the
highest level of attainment of this diet, it is over 90% cereal
grains, which is very unhealthy.  This diet tends to use a lot of the
oriental foods such as miso, udon, sea vegetables, and over all, brown
rice.  In the initial stages fish may be part of the diet. 

Tara
--
Tara McDermott               
tara@starburst.umd.edu       
I eat tofu, and I vote.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: bee honey
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:22:33 GMT

Ted Wayn Altar writes:
 >Modern commercial beekeeping no longer attempts a caring
 >relationship of "symbiotic" exchange where we give the bees
 >sugar cane syrup for their honey.  Rather, the economically
 >more profitable route is to simply kill the bees rather than
 >waste money feeding them during the winter.  Maybe not all
 >beekeepers do this, but the general practice is one that
 >embodies the attitude that living things are mere *material*
 >and have no intrinsic value of their own other than what
 >commercial value we can wrench from them.

The following reply comes from Meg, who is not yet able
to post on r.f.v.  We all hope you can get your system
up and runnng soon Meg  :-) 
					ted
From ST001197@BROWNVM.brown.edu 

Since I'm a new user, and having problems invoking the posting system,
let me merely say to you that there *are* ethical beekeepers in the world,
who do feed their bees through the winter.  Until recently, my mother was
one.  If people are interested in ethical honey, I would suggest that they
contact the local agricultural school, and talk to people who are taking
introduction-to-beekeeping courses.  The people who take these courses
(like my mother) tend to be small-time hobbyists, who want to make honey
and perhaps fertilize an orchard and are VERY unhappy when the entire hive
suddenly swarms...

mm


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From:  (brenda kenworthy)
Subject: Re: Any spicy (non Indian) veg food in NYC
Organization: lesc
Distribution: rec.food.veg
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 16:01:48 GMT

In article <2JAN199302204549@zeus.tamu.edu>, m0g7506@zeus.tamu.edu (Mukul Goel) writes:
> 
> Hi Veg food lovers,
> 
> This is a veg food enthusiast from Texas. I have tried all kinds of 
> places in this state in search of some veg food that tastes good. 
> I am not talking about the Indian Restaurants since they are an 
> exception (also my mother taught me the exquisite art of Indian cookery 
> and I cook excellent North Indian food at home).
> 
> Most of the typical mexican and oriental cuisine that is available in 
> United States is designed to suit the american tounge which starts 
> quivering on contact with any spice. My friends have threatened to 
> kill me before coming to eat at my place if I was going to use too 
> many spices!
> 
> I am not saying that adding a lot of spices is the only way to make 
> the food tasty but boy if used properly and well experimented with 
> they can add a third dimension to your eating life. It takes a little 
> time before your your gastrointestinal linings starts accepting them.
> It's just like drinking, first few kicks are always bad.
> 
> Anyway I've heard New York city has all kinds of eating places on 
> earth. I'll be there for a week for conference from 12 Jan. Please 
> suggest some NON INDIAN restaurants for some hot'n spicy food. I am 
> willing to buy you a lunch if you want to join me plus some exchange 
> of ideas!
> 
> Netters please I want some response to this mail telling me that I am 
> wrong.
> 
> Mukul Goel
> Texas A & M University
> Department of Civil Engineering
> 
> 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Subject: Re: Ted Altar
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 16:45:43 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

In article <1993Jan8.062121.7601@abo.fi> abulsari@aton.abo.fi writes:

>Ted Altar is the most important contributor on rec.food.veg.

Ted is the most important contributor for recipes, helping new
vegetarians, and miscellaneous issues.

However, when it comes to answering difficult questions concerning
health that require a knowledge of medical research data, Steve Dyer
is the undisputed authority at rec.food.veg. I'd place Rich Young at
second place because Rich often cites data from relevant sources.
However, Ted has an undisputed claim on third place, and maybe even
second place.

Of course, if Gabe Mirkin participated at rec.food.veg, he'd steal
the show. He'd talk, and we'd all be listening because he's so much
smarter than the rest of us. (Dr. Mirkin the vegetarian MD whose
radio talk show I listen to each day.)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: william@bnr.ca (William Moss)
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Vegetarian "Kishka"
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 23:50:20 GMT

In article <1ihroiINNj73@uwm.edu>, thelma@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Thelma Lubkin) writes:
|> dbader@eng.umd.edu (David Bader) writes:
|> : 
|> : I was grocery shopping yesterday, when I had this urge for Kishka (which I
|> : haven't had since I was really little).  I called up my Jewish Mother (TM), and
|> : she explained that I probably wouldn't like it anymore, since it is made from
|> : bread crumbs, paprika, and beef fat....  So, if you know what Kishka is, and have
|> : an idea for a vegetarian (vegan!) recipe.. please email me!
|> 
|>            And it's stuffed into the skin of a chicken neck.
|>            Perhaps you can stuff whatever recipe you come up with into
|>            the tofu skin that is used in some dim sum.
|>                             Thelma
Not usually -- traditionally, it's stuffed into a (pardon the vulgarity on
this newsgroup) beef intestine, whence the name kishka, which is Yiddish
for guts. Often the casing used today is a non-meat plastic product anyway.

Check the side of Manischewitz Tam Tams (crakers) box for a non-meat
recipe for 'mock kishke'.

From memory, it involves Tam Tam crumbs (or bread crums or Matza meal
or other wheat-based filler), vegetable oil, an onion, carrots, celery,
garlic, mushed together in a blender, then baked in a rolled up in aluminum foil.
I can't remember if an egg is involved to keep the stuff together after 
taking the foil off, so I can't vouch for the vegan-ness of the recipe.

Come to think of it, it's probably non-dairy margarine instead of oil,
but we always tried to avoid hydrogenated fats in my family, so we
may have substituted oil for margarine.

-- 
===========================================================================
William G. Moss                      disclaimer: not the views of BNR or NT
Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa  +1 613 763 8108 WILLIAM@BNR.CA  
===========================================================================
From: karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Vegetarian "Kishka"
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:16:05 GMT
Followup-To: rec.food.veg
Organization: NRL

In article <1993Jan07.170849.6783@eng.umd.edu>, dbader@eng.umd.edu (David
Bader) wrote:
> 
> 
> I was grocery shopping yesterday, when I had this urge for Kishka (which I
> haven't had since I was really little).  I called up my Jewish Mother (TM), and
> she explained that I probably wouldn't like it anymore, since it is made from
> bread crumbs, paprika, and beef fat....  So, if you know what Kishka is, and have
> an idea for a vegetarian (vegan!) recipe.. please email me!
> 
>  pppppppps,
>   david


Hi David (from a fellow VSDCer)! 

Even with a veggie version of the ingredients (bread, fat, MORE fat, lots
of salt), why do you want to eat that stuff (I thought kishka was really
gross long before I became veg)??????? However, I'll make a guess at a
vegetarian version: try a bread-based stuffing recipe, made moist, or veg.
"sausage", rolled firmly into cheesecloth & steamed. Then you can slice it
(take off the cheesecloth first!) and fry or bake the slices, to get the
requisite amount of grease and crust ;^>. Now tell your J.M. (TM) she was
right .........

The tofu skin idea someone just posted sounds interesting; it should work
if you steam the kishka, but it's a pain to work with (like phyllo dough,
only worse). 

This all brings up another question: anyone have a good recipe for kasha 
varnishkas WITHOUT eggs? Two problems: the kasha usually is coated with an 
egg before cooking, to keep the kernels more intact; and the varnishkas 
(pot pie bows) all have egg in them. I've tried using egg replacer to coat
the kasha, but it doesn't do the trick, and it really makes a taste/texture
difference when the egg is left out. Anyone know a brand of pot pie bows 
that aren't egg noodles?  I've been reduced to eating mushy kasha with
elbow
mac or the like (shudder) --- HELP!

Judy Karpen                "pushing back the frontiers of science"
karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil  Naval Research Lab, Washington, DC USA
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: Re: WHO & Iron - Have They Gone Mad?
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 09:27:05 GMT

In article <C0D66K.9wu@dircon.co.uk> uad1214@dircon.co.uk (Peter Cox) writes:
>
>I just caught part of an interview on BBC World Service
>with Dr. Barbara Underwood of the WHO (World Health
>Organisation).  She was making some pretty wild claims
>about vegetarians being deficient in iron.  At one point,
>the interviewer asked her what vegetarians should do about
>it. Part of her answer included the advice to eat RAW
>potatoes!!!
>
>Does anyone know if the WHO has an Internet address so I
>can follow this up?

Yes.    who.arcom.ch in Geneva and who.eg in Egypt.

Abhay

>
>Thanks!
>
>-- 
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>                     Peter Cox
>uad1214@dircon.co.uk           CompuServe 100012,221 


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Rosemary Waigh <rwaigh@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Vegan calcium - don't count on rhubarb
Reply-To: rwaigh@zooid.UUCP (Rosemary Waigh)
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 00:59:40 GMT


A few days ago I posted figures for the amounts of calcium in numerous vegan
foods.  As I recall rhubarb was particularly high.

According to a column by Reed Mangels, PhD, RD in the January/February 1993
_Vegetarian_Journal_, the calcium in rhubarb is poorly absorbed due to the
oxalic acid in it.  This is the same problem as with spinach, which someone
else posted on recently.  Swiss chard and beet greens also contain oxalic
acid, according to Dr Mangels.

OTOH, as was also previously mentioned in this group, the calcium in kale is
absorbed as well as, or slightly better than, the calcium in milk.

Dr Mangels recommends "eating a variety of foods rather than relying on only
one or two foods to supply a specific nutrient."

Ro
rwaigh@zooid.guild.org
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: atri@eecs.umich.edu (Atri Indiresan)
Subject: McDonalds in the Netherlands - NPR report
Organization: University of Michigan
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 23:54:47 GMT


Just heard on NPR news that 84 McDonalds restaurants in the
Netherlands will start offering veggie burgers. Apparently the
initiative was taken by the Dutch restaurants, and the US franchises
have no similar plans.

On a related note, I read a few weeks ago that the NRA (National
Restaurant Association) conducted a survey, and found that for 30% of
restaurant goers, the availability of vegetarian options was a factor
in choosing where to eat, and based on that, actually recommended to
its members that they offer more veggie options.

Atri
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: zkym02@orl.amoco.com (Keerthi Y. McIntosh)
Subject: Veggie Places in the Reno/Squaw Valley Area
Reply-To: zkym02@hou.amoco.com
Organization: Amoco
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 14:41:33 GMT



Friends,

We are off to Reno/Squaw Valley for a ski vacation for the first week of February and
would like to know if there are any good veggie places to eat.  

Thanks in advance.

Keerthi McIntosh
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Christine_Code@mindlink.bc.ca (Christine Code)
Subject: Brunch idea for Clover
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:02:01 GMT


> Clover M. writes:
>
> Msg-ID: <1993Jan5.063644.7401@sarah.albany.edu>
> Posted: Tue, 5 Jan 93 06:36:44 G
>
> Oh, any suggestions for things I can serve my fiance's parents for brunch?
> Both are hard-core meat and potatoes, 50's style people - He hunts, she
> serves chex-mix.

I don't know what "brunch" means to your fiance's parents.  But in our family
- even the hard-core meat-eating section - brunch is like a fancy, leisurely
breakfast, or a leisurely lunch.

If I were serving brunch to a carnivorous crowd, I'd go with the breakfast
theme and serve waffles.  I've got a really neat waffle-maker (Black and
Decker) that turns out heart shaped waffles.  Experiment ahead of time to
make sure you've found a really good waffle recipe, then provide all sorts of
toppings for your guests to choose from: jam, maple syrup, fruit sauces,
fruit cocktail,etc.  Freshly squeezed orange juice would be nice.

Pretty well everybody loves waffles, and they're easy.  Set a fancy table and
go to it!

(Egg replacer and soy milk or rice dream have worked well in every waffle
recipe I've converted.  There's usually a selection of recipes in the booklet
that comes with your waffle-maker.)

Let us know what you do decide to serve, Clover, and how it goes.  If you
think you need something more substantial and lunch-ish, you could always
make a neat soup, or maybe a vegetarian chili recipe.  I've got a super
recipe for Cashew Chili - let me know if you need it.

...Christine


--

==========================================================================
Christine Code                 *
                               *  "A bear, however hard he tries,
Vancouver, B.C, CANADA         *   Grows tubby without exercise."
Christine_Code@MindLink.bc.ca  *                   -A.A. Milne
==========================================================================