From: piscine@rs1.tcs.tulane.edu (Mike Taylor)
Subject: Re: Who mattered in Yes
Organization: Tulane Museum of Natural History
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:12:17 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-15024]: rs1.tcs.tulane.edu

IC> guitarist. A guitarist is usually fairly easily identifiable
IC> because his style determines his sound, hence you can listen to a
IC> track you have never heard before and identify the lead guitar 
IC> ... just by sound.

IC> Keyboard players on the other hand have access to a huge variety of
IC> sounds, and these sounds are far less affected by playing style. So
IC> any average keyboard player can easily be replaced by any other who
IC> has the technical competance to play the piece. Provided you use
IC> the same gear / sounds, no one will notice.

> This sounds almost like an instrumental bias on your part.  
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
IC> Which way? :-)

Umm, the wrong way?  =8)

> First, a guitarist also has a huge variety of sounds at his disposal,
> depending on guitar, amp, strings, pickups, effects, and more. 

IC> I don't disagree with that, but the fact remains that most
IC> guitarist use a particular guitar / amp combination most of the
IC> time, and stick out very easily.

Two points: 1) a keyboard player may stick to his keyboard/amp combo just as
much as a guitar player, and 2) how many guitars might a given guitar player
use in the course of one concert?  Howe uses several, because different
guitar/amp combinations give him different tones.  It's still easy to pick out
him out in the crowd, because of his PLAYING style, not what gear he is using.

> Next, any keyboard player has his own unique style, as does any 
> guitar player. It's the inability of the listener if that style 
> (guitar, keyboard, or any other instrument, for that matter)
> can't be detected.
 
IC> I still stand by my first post, most keyboard players are not so
IC> easily distinguishable. I am not the only one who thinks this. I
IC> remember seeing a magazine article (either E&MM or SOS) on this
IC> self same subject a few years back saying basically that few
IC> keyboard players actually estsblish a recognizable style.

This will be one of those things we'll agree to disagree on.  =8)  IMO, there
are just as many guitarists with no style as there are keyboardists with no
style.  Just by saying that Wakeman (or Stewart or Monk or Bach to cover three
different styles) is one of the few keyboardists with a recognizable style
doesn't make it so.  The same can be said for guitarists: Howe is one of the
few with a recognizable style.  You would scoff at that and so would I.  I'm
also scoffing at the idea that few keyboard players have an individual style.

> However, it's the musician's ability to choose sounds that
> suit the song and his playing style that determines overall success.

IC> Yes, and this is why Wakeman and a few others achieve, where so
IC> many Keyboard players seem content to remain with bland preset
IC> string washes.

This is a generalization.  Think of how many famous keyboard players have cut
their chops on the Hammond organ.  Compared to today's synth technology, it
had a very narrow tonal range.  Yet, it was easy to tell whether it was
Stewart from Wakeman from Emerson from Banks from ... the list is long.  Or,
for an even wider selection, go into jazz piano players.  Essentially one
tone, yet there are many, many famous jazz piano players with unique styles.
It is the person, not their instrument.

>And so it goes.... any change in members throughout Yes's entire history can
>be detected, from the change in drumming when White replaced Bruford, to the
>change in guitar when Rabin replaced Howe.  Whether you like a particular
>formation or not is moot; that the sound has changed remains a fact.

IC> Can't agree more, hence my initial statement that Wakeman was not 
IC> irellavent

Of course not.  And I opened by saying I agreed with you on this point.  At
least on agreement is good!  =8)


Mike

      /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=(*)=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\
      ^ Mike Taylor                  <->                  rolyaT ekiM ^
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