From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Subject: Norden > Scandinavia (Was: The Saami languages which are Nordic)
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:00:58 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.111850.6684@kth.se>, d89-jsp@nada.kth.se 
(Jan Sparrendahl) writes:

> 	
> 	As for whats a nordic laguage I thought the nordic languages were 
> 	those of the north-germanic branch of the i.u. laguage tree.
> 
> 
> 		
> 
> 		faeroeic
> 		icelandic   danish
> 		norwegian   swedish
> 		|            |
> 		|            |
>                 west        east     english 
> 		|            |       german              west gothic
> 		|____________|       & many more         east gothic
> 		|                     |                   |
> 		nordic               west                east
> 		|_____________________|___________________|
> 		|
> 		gremanic	
> 		|             other subrees	
> 		|______________|___|_____|
> 		|
> 		i.u.
> 
> 	Any error is due to my ignorance.
 

 
This is one possible way to define Nordic languages, indeed.
Like my Store norske lexikon puts it:

"NORDISKE SPRAAK hoerer til den germanske gren av de indoeuropeiske spraakene."


Still, I would prefer using the word Scandinavian languages in this context.
According to a very general rule the great nations tend to identify themselves
with the totality they do not represent totally (example: Russians "represent"
all the nations in Russia - or formerly in the Soviet Union). It seems that
the Scandinavian language speakers are a group great enough to forget
that Scandinavia is not Norden. Norden denotes more than Scandinavia.

Scandinavian and Baltic Finnic languages are spoken in the Nordic countries.

Here's our family tree seen from the Finnish point of view:




                         Finnish
                            I
                            I
Estonian ------------------------------------------- Karelian
Vote                        I                        Ingrian
                            I                        Veps
                            I
                 Proto-Baltic-Finnic --------------- Saami tongue(s)
                            I
                            I
                            I                      Mordvin -- Mari
                            I                              I
                            I                              I
                 Proto-Volga-Finnic ----------------- Volga tongues
                            I
                            I
                            I                  Udmurt ----------- Komi
                            I                               I
                            I                               I
                 Proto-Finno-Permic ----------------- Permic tongues
                            I
                            I
                            I                Hungarian ---- Ob-Ugric
                            I                           I
                            I                           I
                 Proto-Finno-Ugric ------------------- Ugric
                            I
                            I
                 Proto-Uralic ------------------------ Samoyedic
                                                       tongues


 						


Do not overlook us! If you ignore our existence in Norden or Russia, you will 
face the scene that's familiar from every Tarzan movie:

                "Listen! The sound of war drums!"

                "The natives are restless!!"



with best regards ;-)
A Nordic non-Indoeuropean Baltic Finn
Tapani Hietaniemi, Universitas Helsingiensis
                   urbs fennorum

Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic