From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Health Care & Jobs (Disappearing) was: Re: Stupidity of Am. Masses
Keywords: GM sells out American workers! 
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Distribution: na 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:07:53 GMT

In article <BuJv0x.6un@quake.sylmar.ca.us> brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.170756.1318@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>
>>Canadians pay 9% of GDP in public and private dollars for our health
>>care system.  
>
>Which doesn't provide service of quality as high as that available in the US.

But only for those Americans so fortunate as to have an taxpayer subsidized 
health insurance through their employer.  

>It is also important to consider factors beyond the monetary ones.  I consider
>that the factors of morality and individual rights are important too.  By what
>moral principle should I be required to pay for the medical care of someone
>else?   By what moral principal does a bureaucrat have a right to tell a doctor
>what he may charge a patient, or what a patient may pay?  People who have the 
>audacity to tell me how I must spend the money I have earned, and how to care
>for my health make me sick...what's the cure for that?
>

In the United States, the poor are currently paying for the health care
of the rich because the tax subsidy for employer-provided health
insurance which disproportionately benefits large employers and
wealthier Americans, and which poorer Americans pay for through
higher taxes.  And the US rations health care on the ability to pay.

No bureaucrat need tell a doctor what he can charge a patient...with
NHI, the insurer becomes a representative of the consumer and
collectively bargains with the doctor's union fees for different
services...no bureaucrat dictates a fee if the system is designed
properly.  Under a properly designed NHI, patients have doctor 
choice and fees are collectively bargained.  NHI gives the health
care consumer bargaining power equivalent to the doctors "union",
and the hospitals...private insurers bargain to maximize profit,
not to minimize cost to the consumer.

>>The US pays 13% of GDP in public and private dollars.
>
>Indeed, I think that flow of public dollars should stop.
>
>It is also important to remember that one must adjust these numbers for 
>age demographics.  Older people need more care, even at the same level
>of efficiency.
>

The 13% includes public and private spending...if the flow of public
dollars is to stop...employer provided health benefits must be
considered as income and taxed as such.

>I do think though, that having a mixed system is inefficient, and I propose
>that we eliminate that inefficiency by getting rid of the socialized medicine 
>system we already have.
>
>>The Canadian system is the second most expensive in the world, next
>>to the US that is...and the difference in cost is almost entirely
>>in administrative overhead...so in dollars spent on actual health
>>care rather than on health care bureaucracy, we spend about the same.
>
>OK, let's cut the overhead.  We can start with Medicare and Medicaid.
>

Medicare and Medicaid aren't overhead...and its nice to start with
the part where the taxpayer pays for somebody elses care...are you
in favor of starting with the taxpayer subsidy that goes to your
health care, or would you be willing to provide the same taxpayer
subsidy you receive to every American who doesn't receive it.

Gerald
Xref: sparky soc.culture.usa:7221 soc.culture.canada:6476