From: purtilo@cs.umd.edu (Jim Purtilo)
Newsgroups: dc.general
Subject: Re: Banning things (Was: Re: Protest)
Date: 10 Nov 92 22:06:21 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <mumble> rwinters@nhqvax.hq.nasa.gov (Rob Winters) writes:
>Geez, I hate to add to this wild feed, especially since I don't have
>very much light to shed myself (in the form of stats), BUT...

Gee, Rob ...  I'm one of the citizens who would be harmed by senseless
legislation inspired by people like you, who are willing to promote gun
control without the courtesy of getting even a few facts.  I hope you
don't expect us not to respond when you shoot off like this.  Most of us 
have taken this discussion off line, where the thread continues even
today, but as long as you wish to drag this out in public, here are some
answers to the questions I assume you asked.

>I am willing to bet that there are fewer people killed
>in this country every [day?] with guns belonging to criminals,
>(which gun legislation will not help) than by the
>following sorts of incidents:
>
> - accidental shootings while handling household guns
> - crimes of passion and rage with household guns
> - children playing with household guns
> - criminals shooting citizens with the citizens' guns
> - other accidental and wrongful deaths with "legal" guns

Some of the categories I do not have information on (and suspect that
the figures are not collected separately).  But for 1989 (the only list
for which I have some numbers in front of me ... I can get more from my
other office later if you like) there were approximately 1,400 accidental
deaths involving a firearm (of any kind); this should include your items
1, 3 and 5 above.  There were approximately 22,000 deaths by homicide,
non-negligent manslaughter, or legal intervention by ANY means (which 
includes strangulation, poison, stabbing, etc.), of which about 60% 
involved a firearm of some kind.  Taking off those having to do with 
"legal intervention" (i.e., cops shooting bad guys), and paring down to
those deaths by firearms, we see approximately 10,500 murders.  I do not
know how to estimate the number of shootings in which a citizen was killed
with his or her own firearm; these figures are not compiled by the source
from which I obtain the above estimates (Dept of Justice, FBI Uniform Crime
Report).  I believe they UCR *does* now start reporting some aspect of
"passion", though I don't recall how it is phrased; I do recall that 2am
on weekends is when they primarily occur, however, which does take some of
the wind out of the "waiting period will save lives" argument, since no
gun stores are open at 2am on weekends.

Therefore, your speculation is untrue, and in fact the reverse is true,
by nearly an order of magnitude.

Is it tragic that even one life be lost by accidental shooting?  Certainly!
Will banning guns stop this from happening?  No.  Don't forget that you
have cops with firearms too, and, at least locally for which I have been
collecting news articles, a non-trivial number of shootings (accidental
or otherwise) happen with off duty cop guns.  Let's not forget the zillion
or so firearms supplied to the streets recently directly from DC police
storage, either.

In perspective, the same year for which I cite the above figures saw
nearly 50,000 accidental deaths involving a motor vehicle.  More people
died accidentally from each of drowning, poisoning, suffocation, falls,
surgical "misadventures", or fires than died from accidents with firearms.

Jim

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