HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 10:06:22 GMT
From:         Mike Cowlishaw <mfc@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:      Even/Odd rounding
Comments: To: rexxlist@uga.uga.edu

Consider:

  numeric digits 9
  say 0 + 888888888.5000000000xxxx000000001

(where xxxx is an arbitrary number of zeros).  This number should
always be rounded up, never down, as should:

  say 0 + 888888888.59999999xxxx9999999

(where xxxx is an arbitrary number of nines).  In other words, the
even/odd rule can only be applied if you have inspected all digits
to the right and confirmed that they are zeros.  If you do inspect
them, then your results are influenced by more than DIGITS()+1
digits, and hence don't follow the principles of NUMERIC DIGITS.
If you don't inspect them, then quite large errors occur (as in the
second case above).

Mike
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:44:38 GMT
From:         Mike Cowlishaw <mfc@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:      Rounding twice in format()
Comments: To: rexxlist@uga.uga.edu

Yes, this is 'by design' -- it's assumed that built-in functions are
not 'privileged' operators, and so should simply round their inputs
(if "over-precise") before use.  The X3J18 (ANSI standard) committee
favours a 'SIGNAL ON DIGITS' option that would let one detect when
rounding was occurring in this kind of context.

Even/odd rounding was discounted for REXX because it implies processing
an arbitrary number of digits, even if NUMERIC DIGITS is known (see
footnote 40 on page 130 of "The REXX Language").

Mike Cowlishaw
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
From: ets@wrkgrp.COM (Edward T Spire)
Subject: Want an X interface for unix REXX?
Organization: The Workstation Group
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 15:19:21 GMT

Once again we are thinking about an X-windows interface of some kind
for uni-REXX, our Rexx interpreter for Unix. Something less
revolutionary than redesigning the language around object oriented
principles.  We and others have seen a couple of attempts like this in
other environments, and we were wondering...

1.  Does anybody care?  Either those who use the product now or those
who might be more inclined to use it if it had this feature.

2.  What like this have folks seen that they liked?  Based on external
functions, I suppose, but you'd have to deal with waiting for multiple
events somehow, perhaps including events other than strictly GUI
related events (i.e., availability of data on stdin, etc.) Some kind of
addressible environment might be involved?  We've got some ideas, but
we wondered what you all think these days.

Maybe the folks who have tried this kind of thing in other environments
will comment on how their efforts are going?

Email would be good, unless you really want to promote a discussion.
I'll summarize if anyone cares.

-- 

========================================================================
=====  "The heart must mediate between the brain and the hands"    =====
Ed Spire                                 ets@wrkgrp.com (on uunet)
From: ganino@newsserver.tasc.com  ("James S. Ganino")
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
Subject: Rexx under Unix?
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:14:02
Organization: TASC
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jsganino@tasc.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: tardis.read.tasc.com
NNTP-Software: PC/TCP NNTP

     I am familiar with or aware of Rexx implementations under VM/CMS,
MVS/TSO, MS-DOS, and OS/2.  However, my work is moving more toward Unix
boxes these days.  Are there any implementations of Rexx for Unix
platforms?

--
James S. Ganino
TASC
55 Walkers Brook Drive
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx
Date:         Sat, 19 Dec 1992 13:01:57 PST
From:         Dave Gomberg <GOMBERG@UCSFVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: REXX under MS-DOS
              19 Dec 1992 08:22:32 GMT from <richg@HATCH.SOCAL.COM>

Personal REXX for DOS is available from Quercus Systems, Box 2157,
Saratoga CA 95070 for $125 or so.

Dave Gomberg    GOMBERG@UCSFVM  Internet node UCSFVM.UCSF.EDU     fax-> 7797
Seven Gateview Court, San Francisco CA 94116-1941      voice-> (415)731-7793
Newsgroups: comp.lang.logo
From: rcd@cs.brown.edu (Bear - the CIT Rat)
Subject: Re: GOTO in Logo
Organization: Brown Computer Science Dept.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:52:09 GMT

I would just like to add that the ucbLogo source is filled with GOTOs :)

rcd@cs.brown.edu
From: mills@athena.lkg.dec.com (George Mills)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.logo
Subject: Re: GOTO in Logo
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:26:08 GMT

rcd@cs.brown.edu (Bear - the CIT Rat) writes:

>I would just like to add that the ucbLogo source is filled with GOTOs :)

Yes, because it's a state machine. I think Brian might be changing
heart. BREAK and RETURN also break the "purist" model if abused.

>rcd@cs.brown.edu
Newsgroups: comp.lang.logo
From: peterson@hpl.hp.com (Chris Peterson)
Subject: Re: PC Logo?
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:33:43 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, California

Here are three resources for Logo for MS-DOS / IBM PC compatible computers.
	
	LOGO Foundation
	250 W. 57th Street, Suite 2603
	New York, NY 10107 USA
	(212) 765-4780
	Supports all users of Logo
	Supplied the names of the manufacturers below

	_PC_LOGO_ 
	Harvard Associates (Andre Rossi, sales)
	10 Holworthy Street
	Cambridge, MA 02138 USA
	(617) 492-0660

		Current version 4.0
			DOS application
			Will run well under MS-Windows
			Now supports 386 & VGA
			Now includes sound (system speaker)
		Windows version soon
			Windows version will include cut-and-paste, 
			and Sound-Blaster support

		$100 suggested retail price

		PC Connection (software distributor) $59
		6 Mill Street
		Marlow, NH 03456 USA
		(800) 243-8088
		(614)847-4050

		German version
		KRS (Gunther Daubach)
		Burscheid, Germany
		voice: 49-2174-6790
	 	  fax: 49-2174-67979

	_Logo_Writer_
	Logo Computer Systems, Inc. (LCSI)
	P.O. Box 162
	Highgate Springs, VT 05460 USA
	Head office, Montreal, CANADA
	(800) 321-5646
	(514) 331-7090

		DOS application
		Will not run under MS-Windows
		Includes text editor and other goodies
		
		$89 suggested retail price

		Fast Track Computer Products $69.95
		7030C Huntley Road
		Columbus, OH 43229 USA
 		(800) 927-3936
		(614) 847-4050


I haven't used either of these products yet.  I was referred to these
companies by the Logo Foundation.


--
"There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their home."
                  - Ken Olson, President and visionary, Digital Equipment, 1977
-- 
Chris Peterson                      
Research Computing Services                      e-mail: peterson@hpl.hp.com 
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories                           phone: (415) 857-6432
Palo Alto, California USA                                fax: (415) 857-5686
From: wyble@spectrum.xerox.com (Dave Wyble)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.logo
Subject: Re: GOTO in Logo
Date: 12 Dec 92 14:08:49 GMT
Reply-To: wyble.wbst147@xerox.com
Organization: Xerox

In article 12388@softwords.bc.ca, rslade@cue.bc.ca (Rob Slade) writes:

[some deleted]

>One of the chief benefits of Logo, in my experience, is that the use of it
>somehow improves and directs programming "style", regardless of the prior
>experience with other languages.  I have not analysed this in detail, but
>I firmly believe that the programming "contructs" (and syntax) of Logo have
>a lot to do with it, including the absence of GOTO.

I am new to Logo, but feel justified in commenting here.

The use (even the existence) of a GOTO statement has been thoroughly
discussed on other groups with reference to programming languages in
general.  The conclusion is always the same:

GOTO's don't write spaghetti code, PROGRAMMERS write spaghetti code.

I understand, you don't want to encourage the use of a goto.  I simply feel that the exclusion of a GOTO statement will in now way enhance the programming style.
 

Dave Wyble
Xerox Corp
drw.wbst147@xerox.com
Newsgroups: comp.lang.logo
From: rslade@cue.bc.ca (Rob Slade)
Subject: GOTO in Logo (was: MicroSoft Windows LOGO Version 3.X)
Keywords: logo, blasphemy
Organization: Computer Using Educators of B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 20:58:02 GMT

George, I respect what you have been doing, and have been delighted with 
MSWLOGO so far, but I beg you to reconsider.

One of the chief benefits of Logo, in my experience, is that the use of it
somehow improves and directs programming "style", regardless of the prior
experience with other languages.  I have not analysed this in detail, but
I firmly believe that the programming "contructs" (and syntax) of Logo have
a lot to do with it, including the absence of GOTO.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.logo
From: bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.logo
Subject: Object Logo Student Edition
Date: 12 Dec 1992 17:20:43 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: anarres.cs.berkeley.edu


FYI, Paradigm Software has just released a Student Edition of Object Logo.
It leaves out the capability to create standalone compiled programs, but
you get a coupon that lets you upgrade to the full version if you ever
need that and end up paying less than if you just bought the full version
to begin with!

For more info you can e-mail paradigm.tec@applelink.apple.com
From: bh@anarres.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Brian Harvey)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.logo
Subject: Re: GOTO in Logo (was: MicroSoft Windows LOGO Version 3.X)
Date: 12 Dec 1992 00:13:14 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: anarres.cs.berkeley.edu
Keywords: logo, blasphemy

rslade@cue.bc.ca (Rob Slade) writes:
>One of the chief benefits of Logo, in my experience, is that the use of it
>somehow improves and directs programming "style", regardless of the prior
>experience with other languages.  I have not analysed this in detail, but
>I firmly believe that the programming "contructs" (and syntax) of Logo have
>a lot to do with it, including the absence of GOTO.

I hate GOTO, too, but actually it's only quite recently that there have been
Goto-less Logos.  Apple Logo and IBM Logo, for example, both had goto (it was
called GO).

The Logo version of goto is really pretty limited, since it only works within
a single procedure.  This is both good and bad; the good side is that you
can't write *really* awful code with Logo GO, but the bad side is that long-range
jumps are what one mostly wants goto for!  Things within a procedure can usually
be done just as well with some iterative mechanism.

On the other hand, Logo does have two goto-like constructs that can be used to
write spaghetti code if you try hard.  One is CATCH and THROW, which provide
a nonlocal exit facility.  The other is tail calling!  I've seen plenty of Logo
programs in which each procedure ended by calling another procedure.  In effect,
the procedures were used as code blocks linked by goto.  No procedure ever
returned to its caller.

So, I agree that leaving goto out of Logo is no big loss, but neither does it
ensure well-organized programs.
From: mills@athena.lkg.dec.com (George Mills)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.logo
Subject: Re: GOTO in Logo
Date: 14 Dec 92 04:59:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: dialup.mills.724309165


I've considered adding (back) logo goto for several reasons.

1) To show new programmers how NOT to write code.

2) To help handle other logo source code (namely LSRHS [MSWLOGO 2.4 & older]).

3) Goto's are great for writing state machines.

I must agree with the last reply personally. I've seen some of the finest
code that used GOTO's like crazy and seen a lot of bad code with modern
constructs. I must admit coverting over the DEMO (which had a bunch of
goto's was trivial). Probably because it was decent code (goto or no goto
:-)).

I don't want to "tarnish" UCBLOGO's name and I value your opinion and
Brian's very heavily.

I could make it some sort of "Install" option and maybe everyone would be
happy.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.logo
From: pmoore@hemel.bull.co.uk (Paul Moore)
Subject: Re: GOTO in Logo
Organization: Bull HN UK
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 14:42:17 GMT

mills@athena.lkg.dec.com (George Mills) writes:

>rcd@cs.brown.edu (Bear - the CIT Rat) writes:

>>I would just like to add that the ucbLogo source is filled with GOTOs :)

>Yes, because it's a state machine. I think Brian might be changing
odd goto in it


No but seriously folks - my votes would be (if this was a ballot) put goto in
but ensure that the examples don't use it too much. Sometimes you've just
got to do a GOTO - the 'correct' code is just too twisted. I agree with whoever
it was that said "taking goto out of a language doesnt make someone a
good programmer"
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
From: vanroy@prl.dec.com (Peter Van Roy)
Subject: Re: Occurs check
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - Paris Research Laboratory
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 13:11:51 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.173016.8849@nntp.hut.fi>, jur@robin.cs.hut.fi (Jussi Rintanen) writes:
> 
> Question 1: What implementations of Prolog implement the occurs check?
> (Our university has both Sicstus and NU-Prolog.)
> 

The Wild_LIFE system implements unification of psi-terms, which
renders the occur check superfluous.  Wild_LIFE is an
implementation of LIFE, a language that elegantly generalizes
Prolog.  A psi-term is an open-ended dynamic record that may be
cyclic (i.e., it is a general rooted graph).

Peter

----------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Van Roy
Digital Equipment Corporation          Net: vanroy@prl.dec.com
Paris Research Laboratory              Tel: (33) (1) 47 14 28 65
85, avenue Victor Hugo                 Fax: (33) (1) 47 14 28 99
92500 Rueil-Malmaison Cedex           Home: (33) (1) 30 61 41 29
France
----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
From: pds@quintus.com (Peter D. Schachte)
Subject: Re: Array implementations?
Organization: Quintus Corporation, Palo Alto, CA
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:40:51 GMT

In article <1g37l6INN4vk@agate.berkeley.edu>, davids@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (David Petrie Stoutamire) writes:
> What is the best way to represent arrays in prolog?

You don't say what Prolog you're using, nor what you want to put in your
arrays, but the Quintus Prolog library includes the Structs package,
which gives you efficient access to (and modification of) C-style data
structures, including arrays.  I'd be happy to give you details if
this sounds like it might fit your needs.

-- 
-Peter Schachte
pds@quintus.com
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Subject: Re: Occurs check
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 11:58:31 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.111142.24450@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk 
(Matthew Huntbach) writes:

   >I have written programs which rely on the occur-check not
   >happening, since they intentionally build circular structures.
   >What should be so wrong with this - after all it's a standard
   >programing feature in lazy functional languages.

  There's nothing wrong with it. It's just that it's a good idea, both from
a theoretical and a practical point of view, to know what constraint system
one is working in. A Prolog without occur check which nevertheless only
partially supports circular term-like structures promotes the use of obscure
programming tricks and widens the gap between theory and practice.



Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog,comp.lang.lisp
From: ohyama@yy.cs.keio.ac.jp (Ryuichiro Ohyama )
Subject: Prolog interpreter written by Emacs-lisp wanted
Organization: Yamamoto Lab., Keio Univ., Yokohama, Japan.
Distribution: comp
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 04:28:47 GMT

[I've already posted same contents below to comp.emacs and
gnu.emacs.help, but I forgot cross-posting ...]

The Subject says all.

Though there are few Prolog interpreters written by Common-Lisp, I
can't find those by Emacs-Lisp. 

My environment is:
	Mule-0.9.6(extention of emacs-18.58),SS2(SunOS-4.1.1).

Thanks.
--

Ryuichiro Ohyama
Yamamoto Lab. ,Department of Computer Science
Keio University, JAPAN
E-Mail: ohyama@yy.cs.keio.ac.jp
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
From: jlee@cs.cuhk.hk (Jimmy Ho Man Lee)
Subject: Re: Occurs check
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, The Chinese U. of Hong Kong
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:02:46 GMT

joachim@ecrc.de (Joachim Schimpf) writes:

>Our Prolog system ECLiPSe, which is the successor of SEPIA, has an option
How is ECLiPSe different from SEPIA?

jim
From: csa09@seq1.keele.ac.uk (Paul Singleton)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
Subject: Re: Array implementations?
Date: 14 Dec 92 17:08:32 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England

In article <1g37l6INN4vk@agate.berkeley.edu>, davids@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (David Petrie Stoutamire) writes:

> What is the best way to represent arrays in prolog?

Aren't there two issues here:

	efficient mapping from integers (contiguous subrange?) or some
	scalar type, look-up-able at small constant cost;

	updateability

An ingenuous answer might be "declaratively" :-)
----
  __   __    Paul Singleton (Mr)           JANET: paul@uk.ac.keele.cs
 |__) (__    Computer Science Dept.        other: paul@cs.keele.ac.uk
 |  .  __).  Keele University, Newcastle,    tel: +44 (0)782 621111 x7355
             Staffs ST5 5BG, ENGLAND         fax: +44 (0)782 713082
From: marti@granit.unice.fr (Marti Philippe)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
Subject: Re: Integrated logical and object-oriented language?
Date: 7 Dec 92 17:52:53 GMT
Organization: University of Nice - Sophia Antipolis
NNTP-Posting-Host: granit.unice.fr

In article <1992Dec01.090444.26644@th-ilmenau.RZ.TH-Ilmenau.DE>,
 huebner@PrakInf.TH-Ilmenau.DE (Huebner) writes:
|> Hi,
|> 
|> I'm more related with object-oriented programming, but I feel,
|> that it would be nice to have a combination of the expressive
|> power of logical formulas and the means of inheritance of OOP. 
|> Is there a language that tries to integrate these two paradigms?


Hi, Michael.

There is a bunch of tries made to include the object oriented paradigm in the
Prolog language. 
One of them is the ESP (Extended Self Containing Prolog) system which
was developed by the ICOT in Japan. ESP runs only on the parallel machines of the
ICOT but the AI language research institute (a subsidiary of Mistubishi) have
made a UNIX version of this product and distribute it free of charge for R&D
purposes only. This UNIX-ESP is called CESP (for Common-ESP).
You just have to send your adress by mail to cesp-request@air.co.jp and they will
give you a form to fill and the hardware requirements (memory size, OS
version, etc.. ).
After sending them the form and a data cartridge, you will obtain the source
codes and the four volumes documentation (seems really professional...)
I do not argue that this system is the best (I'm not testing it for a long time)
but I think it's a good system for a minimal expense to evaluate a Prolog system
integrating the OO paradigm.

(If you want a commercial product, the Delphia Company in Grenoble (France) has
developed HOOK (stands for ???? Oriented Object Kernel) written in Delphia-Prolog.
It's a brand new product so take a look at Delphia's adress in the FAQ and ask
them for further explanation)

|> Thanks

You're welcome. :)
--
From: pereira@alice.att.com (Fernando Pereira)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
Subject: Re: Occurs check
Date: 18 Dec 92 20:31:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.24443
Reply-To: pereira@alice.UUCP ()
Organization: AT&T, Bell Labs

In article <1992Dec18.093045.21069@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
>In article <24435@alice.att.com> pereira@alice.UUCP () writes:
>>If you think of Prolog programs as *logic* programs where the logic is
>>(a fragment of) first-order logic, what is wrong it that the answers
>>derived without the occurs-check are in general unsound. 
>Well, yes, I'm aware of this, but Prolog is such a compromised
>form of logic that I wonder if it matters.
Right. Since we've had a hurricane, why not go for an earthquake as well?
More seriously, except for the lack of an occurs check, the original
*pure* Prolog is sound, and *many* interesting deductive tasks can
be coded in pure Prolog. Furthermore, extralogical features like assert
can be used in constrained *logical* ways, eg. for lemma storage,
and the resulting programs would be sound with respect to well-defined
logical systems, *if they were executed with the occurs check.* The
problem with the lack of an occurs check is that it can hit you
in unforeseen and mysterious ways, while the nonlogical parts
of Prolog hit you *only* if you use them unwisely.

Fernando Pereira
2D-447, AT&T Bell Laboratories
600 Mountain Ave, PO Box 636
Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636
pereira@research.att.com
From: debray@majestix.cs.uoregon.edu (Saumya K. Debray)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
Subject: Re: Occurs check
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:50:17 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon Computer and Information Sciences Dept.

Fernando Pereira writes:
> Nonetheless, the efficiency reasons that led to Prolog's
> unification not having the check are pretty compelling, so I do not advocate
> adding it to Prolog in all cases. 

While I believe this statement, it would be interesting to actually see some
numbers (preferably for programs other than nrev) showing how much more
expensive unification becomes with the occurs check.  Do the implementors
of Sepia, NU-Prolog, and other systems that provide both kinds of
unification have any numbers they'd care to post?
-- 
Saumya Debray
CIS Dept, University of Oregon, Eugene, OR
debray@cs.uoregon.edu
From: lavoiea@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Lavoie Alain)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
Subject: Turbo-Prolog
Date: 13 Dec 92 01:32:39 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal

Hi,

I am posting this for someone I know.  Currently, he is using 
Turbo-Prolog 2.0 (Borland).  He would like to know if there is 
a more recent version of that software, and where he could get 
a copy.  From what he knows, that software has been 
discontinued sometime ago, but he still would like to upgrade to the
latest version available. Also, if you have any suggestions 
concerning another DOS version of Prolog, it would be 
appreciate.

Thanks.


=============================================================
Alain Lavoie                Voix   : (514) 343-8047
Responsable                 Fax    : (514) 343-8008 
Laboratoire d'informatique  E-Mail : lavoiea@ERE.UMontreal.CA
Departement de geographie
Universite de Montreal
Canada
==============================================================
From: cduguay@lcraft.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Claude Duguay)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
Subject: Re: Trilogy vendor in UK or Europe?
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 15:49:56 MST
Organization: LogiCraft Corp, Edmonton, AB, Canada

fred@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Reinhard Arlt) writes:

>Who markets Trilogy in the UK?  Or in Europe?  I rang the "Complete Logic
>Systems" USA number listed in the resource guide, but got no reply.
>I just want to play around with constraint solving, and can't afford CHIP.

I can't tell you what their address is but Trilogy was developed by a
Canadian company based in Vancouver, BC. You migth be able to get the
number from directory assistance and information about distributors directly
through them.

Claude Duguay              cduguay@lcraft.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca