HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY)
Subject: Re: Separation?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: can
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 00:16:03 GMT

In article <29E7811F.3BE2@telly.on.ca> evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.010038.15969@watserv1.waterloo.edu>
>	schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes:
>
>>>"My Canada includes Quebec."  <-- If you believe it, say it!
>
>>About this campaign of the trucker, in French, it says "Mon Canada comprend 
>>le Que'bec". Direct translation in English: could be "My Canada includes
>>Quebec"  OR "My Canada understands Quebec".
>>The true exact translation should be "Mon Canada INCLUT le Que'bec".
>>
>>Why the words are different in French?
>>Many people think exactly that Canada DOES NOT understand Quebec.
>>Coincidence???
>
>I heard a CBC interview with the trucker just before the full campaign
>started. I think before the billboards, he tried to get as many
>signatures on a "letter" to Quebec to demonstrate that people in English
>Canada did care.
>
>I recall that he said the choice of the word "comprend" was deliberately
>to allow the double meaning. He intended both.

Well, in that case, that's what I thought.

So, many English Canadians signed a paper they did not know what it
*exactly* meant in French.

I find it....   let's say a tiny bit of hypocritical. Why a double
meaning in French and not in English?

Because the problem here is indeed that many French Quebeckers don't
think that English Canada care about Quebec or understand it.

Anyway, we need more than love letters to make up our mind. What we need is
*proofs*, true actions...  I did not see many... if not none...
But maybe newspapers don't report them. Good news is not publishable...
(Am I correct in writing "is" instead of "are" for "news"???)

Sylvain Chamberland
Dept. of Biology
University of Waterloo
Waterloo, Ontario.
From: schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Separation?
Date: 10 Apr 92 16:07:18 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: University of Waterloo

In article <3523@disuns2.epfl.ch> riese@litsuns1.epfl.ch (Marc Riese) writes:
>
>Sylvain Chamberland a ecrit:
>>For us, there is no such thing as "the nation of Canada". there is 2
>>nations, and as long as TROCians won't recognize this, sorry, but
>>there will be troubles...
>
>N'y a-t-il pas plus que deux ? Tu n'as pas oublie' quelqu'un la ?


Oui, j'ai oublie les Premieres Nations, les amerindiens...

Toutes mes excuses aux premiers fondateurs du pays (quoique les autres
en disent)...


Sylvain Chamberland
Dept. of Biology
University of Waterloo
Waterloo, Ontario.
From: hemi@bcrkd12.bnr.ca (Hemi Thaker)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Cost of Bilingual Packaging
Date: 9 Apr 92 16:25:51 GMT
Reply-To: hemi@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, VHDL Group

In article <SBO.92Apr4114716@walhalla.vlsi.polymtl.ca>,
sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher) writes:
> 
> Note that the design and drawings of the packages represent a negligeable
> cost. You then have to show me that it cost more to print a bilingual box
> than an English only box.

	Actually, yes, it does cost a fair bit more.  First of, there are
about 250 Million people in Canada/US.  Packaging for Canada is different
than packaging for the states, because our packaging is required by law
to be in both French and English.  Now, if that box was printed only in
English (which just happens to be what most of the stuff in the states is
printed in), then we don't need separate, smaller run designs for boxes
here.

	As I'm sure that you are familiar with the concept of larger
volumes costing less per unit, I'm positive that you'll now appreciate
that this law is costing Canadian consumers more.  Additionally, many
products are just not available here because manufacturers are not willing
to abide by this law (their loss).

	For the companies willing to print bilingual labels, there is
often another cost incurred, that has a dramatic impact on the final
cost Canadian consumers must bear.  Packages often must be opened, and
repackaged with proper labeling.  This middleperson will add his/her
profit to the cost we pay.  Do you remember the discussion about
why bed sheets cost less than half, across the infamous border?

	I'm not commenting on whether or not we should have a law that
requires English and French printing on all consumer products.  I'm simply
trying to show you that yes, it does cost more.  But that is a question
ALL Canadians must answer... Are you willing to pay X% more to have
English and French labels?

	I have no idea what X is... any estimates?
> 
> 
> Should the fed translate the laws in Chinese?

	Why not?  If there is enough demand for that service, it
SHOULD be provided... After all, the government is here to provide
services for the people, right :-) ?

> 
> Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
> sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | 
> sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | (514)340-5950

Hemi
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer : The above opinions are my own, and do not
             necessarily reflect the views of my employer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hemi Thaker     Bell-Northern Research, Ltd        Ph.: (613) 765-2863
System Level    P.O. Box 3511, Station C           Fax: (613) 763-7241
Modeling        Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1Y 4H7   Email : hemi@bnr.ca
From: beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: O Canada, O Quebec  - reaction
Date: 10 Apr 92 13:45:47 GMT
Organization: Hydro-Quebec

La photo photo montrant quelqu'un pietinant le drapeau du Canada
en page couverture d'un livre a fait l'objet de controverse il
y a quelques annees.  Je pense que c'est la meme.

Ce qui est important ici est la provenance de la photo et
l'identification de la personne pietinant effectivement le drapeau.


Il semble, mais la je me fie uniquement a ma memoire, que la
personne en question etait un activiste de la GRC/RCMP charge de discrediter
les nationalistes quebecois.  Et qu'un trucage aurait eu le
meme effet.

-- 
    Denis Beauregard       _ _ _ _  Collecting Beauregard/Jarret/Jarest/Vincent
beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca | * | * | Promoting use of QC as Quebec Postal Code
  Andre Jarret, sieur de  |===|===| Mes opinions?  Oui, oui, les miennes!
   Beauregard 1642-1992   |_*_|_*_| My opinions?  Yes, yes, mine!
From: robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins)
Subject: Re: O Canada, O Quebec  - reaction
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 16:39:58 GMT

Being one of the few people who has apparently bothered to
read the book, I have difficulty understanding how ANYBODY
can claim that this book is hate literature or really so
offensive. 

 It is possible that the book *disproportionately* draws attention
to Quebec's past history of anti-semitism and updates it.
But that is part of what the book is about. Who says that someone
is not permitted to draw attention to this issue, in particular a
Jew, who is interested in the subject? I don't get it. 

The book is an interesting read (a little rambling in parts),
very funny in parts, insulting only to narrow nationalists who
can't see beyond their own ethnicity -- and thus should be a 
challenge to them. I have not heard yet an appropriate rebuttal to
Richler's assault on ethnic nationalism in Quebec. His analysis
is both devastating and convincing. 

This is why the chauvinists within Quebec want it banned.
If you can't refute it, ban it.
And of course the chauvinists in Quebec have their friends in TROC too.
The commonality is the embracing of ethnic nationalism.

I have only one piece of advice to the curious:
READ THE DAMN THING and make up your own mind.

I read it, enjoyed it and recommend it.
Richler doesn't play footsie with the chauvinists outside of
Quebec either. He craps equally on the APEC dinosaurs as he
does their equivalent in Quebec, his own province.

Frank.
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: French in france
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:10:25 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Apr09.133916.5892@bmerh2.bnr.ca> robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins) writes:
>Rheal:
>yes, your ancestors are somewhat typical of Quebec/Canada settlers.
>(sorry, old chap)

Why sorry?  This doesn't come as a surprise to me.  Most
French-Canadians are descended from a relatively small number of
settlers, so it's likely that any two of us can find many common
ancestors.  Add to this the rural lifestyle of my ancestors, and you
get a lot of cousins marrying cousins...  (Fortunately, there seems to
have been a large enough gene pool, supplemented by the occasional
Amerindian bride (whether legally married, or "marie' a` la mode du
pays"), to avoid the ravages of inbreeding.)

Actually, the person who appears most often in my family tree is an
Amerindian woman, Marie Manitobawich (8 times).

The Rhealist (Rheal Nadeau)                 |  Bell-Northern Research
Internet:  nadeau@bnr.ca                    |  Ottawa, Ontario, Canada 
BNR neither endorses nor censors my views   |  (613) 763-4266
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY)
Subject: Re: Le mirage avant le chaos
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 04:58:17 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.171136.5021@ac.dal.ca> galbrth@ac.dal.ca writes:
>beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard) ecrit
>
>|j'en ai rien a foutre, pas plus que le 1er juillet, ce sont des symboles
>|vides si tu n'y crois pas), mais ce symbolisme qui nous touche
>|(le Quebec utilise QC, alors le Canada utilisera QC aussi, on vous
>|appuie; une promotion pour que les calendriers faits par des
>|non-francos ou non-quebecois utilise les mots "Fete nationale du Quebec",
>
>Bon.  D'un trait tu te fout du 1er Juillet, et de l'autre tu te souci
>de le Canada ne publicise pas `la fete du Quebec' ???
>Pas tres consistent ton affaire!
>
>En plus, tous mes amis Quebecois appellent encore le 24 Juillet la fete de la
>St. Jean.  Alors revient en!

Et alors?

St-Jean est le patron des Quebecois!  On dit bien "Noel", pourtant
tout le monde sait que c'est la fete "a Jesus"!!!!!     :)

En passant, c'est le 24 JUIN, pas juillet...

Sylvain Chamberland
Dept. of Biology
University of Waterloo
Waterloo, Ontario

Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: jalsop@seachg.uucp (John Alsop)
Subject: Re: Get Ready Canada For The Next Boom
Reply-To: jalsop@seachg.UUCP (John Alsop)
Organization: Sea Change Corporation, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 01:44:54 GMT

In article <92102.013133SPRAGGEJ@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> John G. Spragge <SPRAGGEJ@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>
>If you think the only cost of the GST is the amount remitted, try running
>a small business. The paperwork in the GST (record keeping, registration,
>etc.), is a major hassle. That adds to the cost of business, and believe
>me, it gets passed on.

This myth gets posted every few months.  The reality is that the overhead
of the GST is trivial, and is more than compensated for by the fact that
the input tax credit is received on goods used within the business as well
as those for resale.

(And yes, I do run a business).

-- 
John Alsop

Sea Change Corporation
6695 Millcreek Drive, Unit 8
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada L5N 5R8
Tel: 416-542-9484 Fax: 416-542-9479
UUCP: ...!uunet!uunet.ca!seachg!jalsop
From: sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Separation?
Date: 12 Apr 92 16:28:12 GMT
	<1992Apr10.010038.15969@watserv1.waterloo.edu>
	<29E7811F.3BE2@telly.on.ca>
Distribution: can
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Canada

In article <29E7811F.3BE2@telly.on.ca> evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) writes:

   In article <1992Apr10.010038.15969@watserv1.waterloo.edu>
	   schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes:

   >>"My Canada includes Quebec."  <-- If you believe it, say it!

   >About this campaign of the trucker, in French, it says "Mon Canada comprend 
   >le Que'bec". Direct translation in English: could be "My Canada includes
   >Quebec"  OR "My Canada understands Quebec".
   >The true exact translation should be "Mon Canada INCLUT le Que'bec".
   >
   >Why the words are different in French?
   >Many people think exactly that Canada DOES NOT understand Quebec.
   >Coincidence???

   I heard a CBC interview with the trucker just before the full campaign
   started. I think before the billboards, he tried to get as many
   signatures on a "letter" to Quebec to demonstrate that people in English
   Canada did care.

Juste par curiosite: combien de signatures a-t'il obtenu?
--
  ,                          ,                           ,
Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | 
sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | (514)340-5950
From: audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: On Exaggeration
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:41:53 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article (Robin Collins) writes:
>>It says that in 1832, the jews in Canada were not allowed to have
>>cimetaries or synagogues. In 1832, the deputies of the Patriote party
>>(under Louis-Joseph Papineau) voted the first Charter of Rights, that
>>got these rights (synagogues & cimetaries) for the jews.

>NOW you're talking. Papineau is one of my heroes too.
Good!

>Surely you don't associate the present breed of nationalists 
>(so-called) with the calibre of Papineau?!

If you read about Papineau, you will find that he didn't have too much
leadership and was kind of overwelmed by the events. He lost control
over everything, and was not such a big hero afterall. His legend is
bigger than what he actually was.

>I don't think you would find him legislating sign laws or
>anti-semitic decrees. 

Anti-semitism again! Are you referring to Lionel Groulx (that's not
recent history...)? I never thought of Groulx as a hero. In fact, I
would never have a hero who is associated with any religion.


-- 
Francois Audet
Telephone: (613) 592-2121 x1754
Internet: Francois.Audet@software.Mitel.COM
From: clamen@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Citizenship in the Two Canadas (was: Separation?)
Date: 9 Apr 92 00:38:08 GMT
	<1992Apr6.152103.11849@pandora.matrox.com>
	<1992Apr7.082314.23749@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>
	<1992Apr08.032810.17326@bmerh2.bnr.ca>
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Distribution: can
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University

In article <1992Apr08.032810.17326@bmerh2.bnr.ca> nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau) writes:

   In article <1992Apr7.082314.23749@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:

   >The way I look at it, two new countries would be created, and every
   >citizen of the old one would have to choose citizenship in one of
   >the new ones...choosing both "New Canada" and Quebec would not be
   >allowed.

   And what would I choose?  I am a Canadian, and an Ontarian.  I am
   also a francophone.  How could I decide, ahead of time, which of
   the new entities (given the number of scenarios proposed, these
   entities might or might not be full countries) would be best for
   me?  My first reaction would be to stay where I am - but what if,
   two years later, I decide an anti-francophone backlash is making
   life here impossible?  Would I be welcome in Quebec, with full
   citizenship, or have to submit to immigration rules?

   Actually, if things got that ugly, I think I'd look for an entirely
   different country to move to.  And I do not believe, by any stretch
   of the imagination, that things will ever go that far.

Legal issues aside, the only sensible thing would be for the Two
Canadas to sign a basic treaty that guarantees (at least for a
generation) the right of anyone born in either Canada to claim
citizenship in the other whenever they want.  With the two
citizenships being transferable, dual citizenship would not be an
issue.  This would also solve the problem of Quebecers who identify
with English Canada, but reside in Quebec (perhaps for generations).

--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 268 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890, USA
From: rwood@superior.carleton.ca (Richard Wood)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Canada, 2 nations.
Date: 10 Apr 92 15:19:54 GMT
Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Apr10 schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes:
>   For us, there is no such thing as "the nation of Canada". there is 2
>   nations, and as long as TROCians won't recognize this, sorry, but
>   there will be troubles...
>Sylvain Chamberland
>Dept. of Biology
>University of Waterloo
>Waterloo, Ontario.
>

  My opinion exactly.  There are two nations, but TROCers are determined to
press ahead with the pretence that there is only one Canada, requiring that all 
10 components must be equal.  The end of this road will probably be something
like a Commonwealth of Independent Provinces.
  Quebec is not the same and should, I think, stand apart from the other 9 with 
some form of independence (with a TROC equally independent of Quebec).
  There will never be a united Canada.  What I want is a united TROC.
--
Richard Wood  :  rwood@ccs.carleton.ca 
       Computing and Communications Services
               Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada K1S 5B6
From: coady@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Coady Michael)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: QC Quebec, SK Saskatchewan...
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:41:08 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal

Well, I had nothing to do with the origin of current (or ancient)
abbreviations for the 10 provinces of Canada.  But I would surmise
that PQ has been used for Quebec due to the existence of the
city of Quebec, which is also rumoured to receive mail.  No other
province has these circumstances.  Granted, there is New York, New
York and London, Ont. but anybody who has gotten confused when having
a conversation about one or the other of these places will understand
why PQ was adopted as an abbreviation for the province of Quebec.
It's hard to believe that some heartless anglo devised this as a
way of trivializing Quebec (the province).

Mike Coady
COADY@ERE.UMONTREAL.CA
From: galbrth@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Cost of Bilingual Packaging
Date: 10 Apr 92 23:28:33 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

warkent@ltisun11.epfl.ch (Ken Warkentyne) hit the nail on the head with

>hemi@bcrkd12.bnr.ca (Hemi Thaker) wrote:
>>       Actually, yes, it does cost a fair bit more.  First of, there are
>> about 250 Million people in Canada/US.  Packaging for Canada is different
>> than packaging for the states, because our packaging is required by law
>> to be in both French and English.  Now, if that box was printed only in
>> English (which just happens to be what most of the stuff in the states is
>> printed in), then we don't need separate, smaller run designs for boxes
>> here.
>
>Actually, labels would not only have to be in English but use U.S. measures
>and conform to U.S. regulations on content information.  So yes, it
>would be much cheaper to let the U.S. decide how we measure things,
>what we should know about products, and what claims can be made (juice
>vs "fruit drink", light vs. non-light, etc).  Heck, why not go all
>the way and do away with all Canadian regulations and government services.
>After all, it would be much cheaper just to borrow or rent U.S. ones.

Wow.  Good point.
Maybe the FTA should have set North American packaging requirements in
Metric (time they changed anyway ;-) with English, French and Spanish.
Also set forth contents regulations, always taking the stricker requirement.

 _____________________________________________________________________________
 Peter Galbraith       [Phone: (902) 494-7007] |  GALBRTH@AC.DAL.CA (InterNet)
 Dept. of Oceanography,  Dalhousie University  |  GALBRTH@DALAC     (BitNet)
 Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, B3H 4J1         |  rhogee@dalcs      (UUCP)
From: audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: When do we stop being outsiders? (WAS Re: The Journal on ...)
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:11:02 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article (Craig Campbell) writes:
->I'm sorry, but I have some trouble worrying or feeling guilty about things
->that happened when my grandparents were young (May they rest in piece) or
->before they were born.  It is ancient history.  Interesting, perhaps, but 
->of little relevance.

So why are Duplessis, Arcand (whoever it is) and Lionel Groulx always
reoccurring every second message?
-- 
Francois Audet
Telephone: (613) 592-2121 x1754
Internet: Francois.Audet@software.Mitel.COM
From: robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Queen of Canada
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:34:46 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada

In article <SBO.92Apr12121903@froh.vlsi.polymtl.ca> sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher) writes:
>In article <1992Apr11.160351.4968@ac.dal.ca> galbrth@ac.dal.ca writes:
>
>   jswilson@mta.ca (SCOTT_WILSON) writes
>   |                         If it insults you're poor little ego then go home
>   |the Queen is as much as a part of Canada as the beaver and the maple leaf.
>   |She is OUR queen as well.
>
>   I agree with Andrew.  It's time we took over British `traditions' and
>   replace them with Canadian ones!
>
>You're in for a tough break Peter. I've seen support for the queen even by
>the so called moderate in can.politics. I agree with you that the queen has
>no business in Canada, but I suspect that a large segment of the
>anglophones still worship the queen.
>
>Oh well, at least she does not come in Quebec, or when she does so she make
>sure she does it quickly :-).


Stephane, finally we can agree on something (it must be our common
republican blood?!) I don't know how many people support the monarchy.
It would be an interesting poll to take. Especially after all those
princes and princesses divorce each other.

Vive la republique!
Long live the republic, down with the monarchy.

Enough of this silly feudal tradition (it's almost as bad as the
fleur de lis, symbol of french royality on the Quebec flag.) 
Ooops, sorry, steph!

(chuckle)
Frank.
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Why Quebec nationalists want to separate?
Date: 16 Apr 92 03:38:00 GMT
Distribution: can.politics
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Apr15.213907.23107@watserv1.waterloo.edu> schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes:
>
>(I wish I could write in Cyrillic alphabet on this net...  :)  )

Heck, I wish I could write in the French alphabet on this net!  What
I'd give for my accents and cedillas...  (Damn U.S. cultural imperialism -
just because they don't use diacritics...)                      :-) 

>Sylvain "Remyevich" Chamberland

Rheal Olivaevich Nadeau?  Nah - doesn't work!  (Then what would the
diminutive be?  Rheasha?  Hmm - not too bad.  :-) )

The Rhealist (Rheal Nadeau)                 |  Bell-Northern Research
Internet:  nadeau@bnr.ca                    |  Ottawa, Ontario, Canada 
BNR neither endorses nor censors my views   |  (613) 763-4266