HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pat@berry.Cary.NC.US (Pat Berry)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: "The First Duty" **SPOILERS**
Date: 11 Apr 92 02:59:19 GMT
Organization: Berry Communications

il@bambam.u.washington.edu (Il Hwan Oh) writes:

> david@xlnt.com (David Johnson) writes:
> 
> > Spoiler warning:


















> 
> 
> 
> Here's my problem (a very minor one) with the episode.  At the end,
> Piccard says that Wesley won't advance with his classmates.  Huh?
> Does Wesley get to take the same classes again and ace them again?
> He wasn't having academic difficulties.  What's the point of holding
> him back?

How do you feel about having a year of your life wasted?  I once lost a
semester's worth of course work because of a hospital stay, and I was
*not* pleased.

And acing the classes will not be that easy.  I doubt that they'll let
him turn in the same papers, so he'll have to do all new research and
write new ones.


Pat Berry                    pat@berry.Cary.NC.US
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: kyle@uunet.uu.net (Kyle Jones)
Subject: Kobyashi and Kirk
         (was Re: Locarno = Kirk)
Organization: UUNET Technologies, Inc
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 20:58:04 GMT

v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey) writes:
 > The point of the KM test is not to teach the cadets to face
 > death with resignation and dignity!  Not at all.  The point
 > is to put them in a simulated situation in which they can
 > see what their reaction to death and a no-win situation will
 > be - because it's not the kind of thing, no-win and all,
 > that you're gonna get a second chance at in real life.

I don't think it achieves its objective.  The cadet always
knows "it's just a simulation."  The simulation Wesley had was
much better.  It worked because Wes thought it was real.

 > Kirk REFUSED to face death in the simulation.  He refused
 > to take advantage of the net Starfleet was offering him.
 > He paid the price in TWOK.

Well, in reality, since Kirk had somehow found out about the
simulation beforehand, it wouldn't have had the desired ewffect
on him anyway, even if he got so caught up in the simulation that
he forgot it was a simulation.
From: dsturm@ducvax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Asimov's cameo lost, too :-(
Date: 7 Apr 92 19:01:34 GMT

Shame on the TNG staff for not following thru on the script that
had Data talking to a holographic Asimov on the holodeck...

No way to do that one now   :-(
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: carrie@audiolab.UWaterloo.ca (Carrie E. Howard)
Subject: First Duty questions
Organization: Audio Research Group, University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:07:27 GMT

I have a couple of questions about The First Duty:

1.  Has Calgary expanded out to Banff by this time?  The only thing resembling a
ski hill in Calgary is the bob-sled and luge runs!

2.  Who was the actor playing Cmdr Albert?  What else has he done?

Carrie
From: stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Asimov's cameo lost, too :-(
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:54:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: talon.1992Apr8.195420.20010
Organization: Oregon State University, College of Oceanography

In article <1992Apr08.070328.4537@edsi.plexus.COM> terry@edsi.plexus.COM (Terry Dawson) writes:
>dsturm@ducvax.auburn.edu writes:
>
>>Shame on the TNG staff for not following thru on the script that
>>had Data talking to a holographic Asimov on the holodeck...
>
>>No way to do that one now   :-(
>
>What?  Have they repealed acting and make-up?  Sure, they can do it.
>They just won't be able to use the real Asimov...

Acting? Makeup? Why?

It's a damn holodeck. They can generate whatever and whomever they want.
They didn't need to zoom back to 19th century England to pick Moriarty,
they certainly wouldn't need to zoom back to 20th century USA to get
Asimov.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: THE BOSEMAN CREW IS NOT STUPID!!! (Cause & Effect Spoilers)
From: mike@batpad.lgb.CA.US (Mike Batchelor)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 92 18:25:27 PDT
Organization: The Batchelor Pad

antioch@desire.wright.edu writes:

> Also, even without the new tech, the Poker Crew all began to get 
> Deja Vu before Bev's voices appeared.  So this is not any new tech
> happening.  if in 17 days the enterprise crew can remember 12 cards
> in a row.. I would think the Boseman crew would have gone insane by
> now.. I dont think they were stuck in the loop any longer than the
> enterprise.

It is imaginable that the Boseman loop cycle time was quite a bit
shorter that the 12 hour loop the Enterprise was stuck in (give or
take).

What if the Boseman was stuck in a millisecond-duration loop,
repeating the same instant over and over until the disturbance caused
by the Enterprise freed them?  Can you imagine anybody noticing that?

I figured that maybe the Boseman got trapped directly in the temporal
distortion - perhaps they couldn't detect it, or were attempting to
investigate it.

Is there really any difference between getting 'warped' 80 years into
the future, and being caught in a loop repeating the same instant over
and over for 80 years?  None that I can see...



[] ---
[] Mike Batchelor -- mike@batpad.lgb.CA.US -- cerritos.edu!batpad!mike
[] Long Beach, California
[] TNG Quote: "You were travelling in close formation at over 80,000 kph, only
[] 10 meters from Cadet Albert, and you didn't even know his orientation?!?"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Wes, Wes, Wes (minor First Duty spoilers)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1992 13:21:50 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to slappy@iastate.edu (Rodney G Zenner):
>I can't believe that Wes would act in such a fashion.

Intelligence and good judgement aren't always found together.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
      "Informix 4GL is not a 4G, and it's barely an L."  -- John Tombs
From: ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: More on the Locarno/Kirk issue (was Re: (Spoilers First Duty))
Date: 10 Apr 92 13:42:39 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Apr9.172518.26907@cco.caltech.edu> tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:

>Ben, I think you're overreacting.  You seem to think that if I demonstrate a 
>flaw in X, that I intensely dislike X.  Not so; most people realize perfection
>is unrealistic.

Exactly!  That's why we all hate Wesley!  Up until now, the little bastard
has been too perfect.  :-) :-) :-) :-)


-- 
Jorge Diaz                       | If winning is not important, then Commander,
Georgia Institute of Technology  |    why keep score?
Office of Information Technology | 
ccoprdj@prism.gatech.edu         |                     - Worf -
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: rll1@kepler.unh.edu (Robert L Lamothe)
Subject: Re: Why did the Glass Break! Cause and Effect
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 20:00:20 GMT

In article <1992Apr1.232441.12988@cs.wayne.edu> delledg@jake.cc.wayne.edu (De Vaughn Elledge) writes:
>In article <1992Apr1.201049.1849@visus.com> nash@visus.com writes:
>>You would think that hundreds of years from now that material science would  
>>have advanced enough such that drinking glasses would not break when dropped  
>>from a height of two feet.
>>
>>Just Picking Nits,
>>Rich
>>--
>Maybe it was just an antique.

	Or maybe Beverly just likes to use real Crystal.


Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch)
Subject: Re: First Duty: What if Picard Were Superintendent?
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 02:12:01 GMT

NHT@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

Windsor, you ought to know better.  Spoiler warnings, spoiler warnings...



>Something that has just occurred to me: in the first season episode
>'Coming of Age' (I think), Picard is offered the position of
>superintendent of Starfleet Academy, which (of course) he turns down.

>Now say Picard accepted the offer.  What would he have done when
>Wesley's squadron's accident was investigated?  

You assume that under Picard's superintendentship that Wes would even
have gotten into the Academy.  :-)

More seriously, I suspect he'd have removed himself immediately for 
conflict-of-interest reasons, as you surmise.

Tim Lynch
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: pealbers@descartes.waterloo.edu (Paul E. Albers)
Subject: Re: Lacarno = Kirk (Spoilers "1st Duty)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 14:30:32 GMT

In article <1992Apr5.182703.14439@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> apearlma@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Andrew Pearlman) writes:
>In article <mal6657.702494263@tamsun.tamu.edu> mal6657@tamsun.tamu.edu (Mark A. Lindsay) writes:

>>	The main difference that I see between Kirk and Locarno is that
>>Locarno had no sense of responsibility.  Yes, Kirk flew by the seat of his
>>pants, but he was always willing to face the consequences of whatever he
>>got into.  Look at Amok Time.  Kirk was willing to throw away his career
>>for his friend, an act that he repeated in STIII.  He knew that he would
>>be throwing away his career, and was willing to do so.  Locarno had
>>no such sense of responsibility.  He wanted to cover his mistake.  Kirk
>>never attempted to cover his tracks.  He was always ready to face the music.
>
>What about the Kobayashi Maru scenario that he reprogrammed in the academy?
>As Picard pointed out, if Locarno had actually been successful, he would
>have thrilled the audience and become a living legend at the academy.
>
>Kirk couldn't deal with the no-win scenario at that time and neither could
>Locarno.
>
>Andy Pearlman

Kirk already had dealt with the test before and he never put anyone else's
life at risk.  Re-programing a simulation is
a prank but certainly not anything like leading a group of friends into
preforming a manuver that has already been banned because other have died
trying it , just  to satisfy personal vanity.

Paul
From: John_Jenkins@taligent.com (John H. Jenkins)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Asimov's cameo lost, too :-(
Date: 8 Apr 92 23:37:23 GMT
Organization: Taligent, Inc.

In article <1992Apr8.122401.4023@umbc3.umbc.edu>, cs201139@batman.acslab.umbc.edu (cs201139) writes:
> 
> >Shame on the TNG staff for not following thru on the script that
> >had Data talking to a holographic Asimov on the holodeck...
> >
> >No way to do that one now   :-(
> 
> [...] Would Asimov
> have done it if they did want to do it? 
> 
> 

Well, they would have had to drag him off to LA first.  Since he wouldn't
fly, disliked travel in general, and was in poor health for the last few
years, it would have been a long shot at best.

It would have been nice, though.  

John H. Jenkins
John_Jenkins@taligent.com
From: dsturm@ducvax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Patrick Stewart article & Potsie as Captain...
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:10:39 GMT

Hmmn, Patrick Stewart not in the seventh season?

Guess it's time for Captain Potsie....  :-)
From: "bernie wong" <bernie.wong@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: wesley's taste in dec
Date: 11 Apr 92 13:34:51 EST
Reply-To: "bernie wong" <bernie.wong@canrem.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

MPN>     Ok, this is as next to no spoiler, so I don't think I'll get in troubl
   >  Did anyone else notice the model of the original Enterprise on Wesley's d
   >  in his dorm room? I have this model as well. It is produced by the Frankl
   >  Mint (Yea, I was gullible enough to get this one and a few others) and is
   >  excellent replica in pewter. As a result of this, my friends decided to c
   >  me Wesley, since we are both foolish enough to get this (IMHO) wonderful
   >  model.
   >     Any one else have these models? I have the Enterprise, Romulan, and
   >  Klingon ships as well as a big die-cast model of the Enterprise with a li
   >  bridge and shuttlecraft.

Nah, I make em!  Well, not the FRANKLIN *MINT* models, but I purchase
the models for about $25 average, unassembled, from my local hobby
store.  They're plastic and made by AMT Ertl, which to my knowledge was
the company which made the original Enterprise.  So far I've made the
TNG Romulan Warbird, Klingon BOP, Ferengi Marauder, Galileo shuttlecraft
and the STVI Enterprise-A.  They're great fun because you actually get
to make them myself!  And since I love Star Trek so much, I try to buy
as authentic as possible paints to match the model.

Unfortunately, my sweater got caught onto the E's starboard nacelle and
it fell down.  Hehehe...  Needless to say, it's warp engines were
innoperable and it just recently got out of spacedock!
---
  OLX 2.1 TD  Very good, Einstein, but next time show your work.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: wjmc@unix.brighton.ac.uk (-*_Spikey_Tribble_*-)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: What happens to BOSEMAN now in TNG-Time Line?
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:36:32 GMT
Organization: Brighton Polytechnic, UK

> [...]
> ... a being with
> a non-linear sense of time (like Guinan).
> [...]

 What IS Guinan ?
-- 
###########################################################################
#  Bill Crawford  aka  *Cuddly_Cactus*     |     wjmc@uk.ac.bton.unix     #
#  BSc (Hons) Computer Science Year One    |     wjmc@uk.ac.bton.vms      #
#  Have you read your Book In Basic Life Education today ? You should !!  #
#  Any views I express are not necessarily those of Brighton Polytechnic  #
###########################################################################
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: kyle@uunet.uu.net (Kyle Jones)
Subject: Re: more Kobiyashi
Organization: UUNET Technologies, Inc
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 02:31:19 GMT

cortese@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
 > You are ignoring something important to a control and command oriented
 > person like Kirk.  All of the previous situations involved something
 > where HE was forced to take action and resolve the situation.  Even if
 > he didn't like the way things turned out, he could say, "I did what I
 > though was correct at the time."  And for an action oriented individual,
 > guilt over making the wrong decision is tons better than helplessness at
 > not being able to do anything.  Kirk would much rather stew in guilt
 > than say, "There was nothing *I* could do."

OK, how about "The Empath"?  McCoy gives Kirk a hypo that knock
him out.  Spock then takes command and is prepared sacrifice
himself when McCoy gives Spock a hypo and knocks him out, too.
McCoy then sacrifices himself and is tortured (nearly?) to death.
There was nothing Kirk could do about it.

Spock and Kirk wake up and find McCoy... spread eagled, bug-eyed,
traumatized, dead or dying.  What was wrong with Kirk's behavior
in this particular episode?

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: jtruss@wpi.WPI.EDU (DevNull)
Subject: Re: Comment on Wesley's room (First Duty)
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 22:01:27 GMT

bn981@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ryan Mathews) writes:
>The door had a doorknob, and it swung open.  Awfully low tech, dontcha
>think?
>
>Either there's some point to this, or the average college dormitory in
>the 24th century is as old and unmodern as the ones today.  :-)

Heh...I can just hear it now...

"The school's pretty good, but the dorms bite wind...they're so run-down, it's
pathetic.  Would you believe that they still have *manual* doors?  They say 
they don't have enough money.  But of course they can cough up the dough for
the President to get a holodeck in his office, and for the Administrative
building to get 20 new replicators..."

Hmm...I didn't think to check if they had a personalized-holographic-brick 
walkway on their quad. :)   (Sorry, anyone who hasn't been to WPI in the
past year or so and hasn't witnessed the "$40 Alumni Brick" phenomenon won't 
get this one...)

					-jtruss@wpi.wpi.edu
					 John Trussell

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: scorch@nuchat.sccsi.com (Jeremy Tully)
Subject: Re: What happens to BOSEMAN now in TNG-Time Line?
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 22:23:10 GMT

 The Boseman dissappeared in the year 2378. By TNG times, that the Boseman
was "shot" about 90 years into the future....that would not change the
TNG pattern of history. The Boseman was gone until the "Cause and Effect" 
episode, because of the time rift....and I am sure that it WAS listed as
missing in Starfleet Records..

Scorch
(No nifty Sig yet!)

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch)
Subject: Re: A few comments THE FIRST DUTY brought up
Keywords: Calculus Academy FIRST DUTY
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 22:08:49 GMT

bbrown@willamette.edu (Brian Brown) writes:

>Okay, two questions popped into my mind while watching THE FIRST DUTY:

Spoilers ho!

>1)	When do kids in TNG learn Calculus?  In this episode,  there was
>	a refrence to the Squad Leader bucking down on Calc. to get into the
>	Academy.  From this, I can only assume that he was taking it in High-
>	School (or the TNG equivalent).  

Probably (but note: it wasn't Locarno, the squad leader.  It was Josh, the
dead cadet.)

>	However, in another episode (I don't
>	remember the name, it was when the people from that mythical planet
>	stole several children off the big E), a boy about 10-12 years old
>	was complaining about having to learn Calc.  I got the impression
>	that both of them were learning in standard tracts, so why the big
>	age difference?

(You're thinking of "When the Bough Breaks", a truly blah show.)

I think the answers people have given here already work pretty well; there 
are different levels to calc.  The early part of it is memorizing rules and
techniques, which a ten-year-old can do as well as an adult if not better.
The deeper concepts came at the pre-Academy level.

(Of course, it could just be a retcon, too.  :-) )

>2)	Why is Star Fleet Academy on Earth?  

Because it's easier to film there.  :-)

Tim Lynch
From: harwood@cs.tulane.edu (Doug Harwood)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Repetetive arguments...etc.
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:33:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Apr9.213331.26883
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Tulane Univ., New Orleans, LA
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-26821]: amor


    I read an article here today, and now I whish I'd saved it.  The author
of that article said something to the effect that just one idle comment
about something elicits tons of repeated arguments about that comment or
even about unrelated subjects.  When I read this newsgroup, I look at the
subject header, usually skipping past old subjects (dead horses), searching
for something of vague interest.  It seems there are very few articles each
day that are worthwhile.  And it's not just a few repeats.  Today, at 3:00 pm
CDT, there were 55 articles, and I'd read everything from yesterday.  There
was one article that interested me.
    I realize I'm going to get lots of hate mail for this.  I don't mind.
Please, flame me.  Just do it through email so everyone else doesn't have to
read it.
    Maybe there should be a new newsgroup: rec.arts.startrek.dead-horses. :P
-- 
  _________________________________________________________________________
				Doug Harwood
			   harwood@rex.cs.tulane.edu
  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: cglover@lonestar.utsa.edu (Calvin G. Glover)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: those things on their belts
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:04:01 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio


    i was watching an old episode of st.tng with my young niece the other
    day and as we were watching an away team beam down to some planet my
    niece turned to me and said, "uncle calvin, why are those men wearing
    dustbusters on their clothes?"

    those phasers do indeed look a lot like dustbusters.

    btw, did you notice in the episode (i'm bad at titles) in which the
    enterprise goes back to tasha's home planet, when tasha's sister was
    beaming down to the colony to help rescue the crewmen,  she had on a
    blue jumpsuit with matching blue phaser holster.  how nice, they must
    make them in all the fashionable colors.

    "i'm NOT going down to battle with one of those tacky black holsters!
     either i match or i'm not going to help!"

-- 
    *  "i should not talk so much about myself if there were anybody else  *
    *   whom i knew as well.  Unfortunately, i am confined to this theme   *
    *   by the narrowness of my experience"  -- henry david thoreau        *
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: runyan@cup.hp.com (Mark Runyan)
Subject: Re: (Spoilers First Duty)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 19:37:12 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: HP, Cupertino, CA, USA

goodwin@orionsci.uucp (Ben Goodwin) writes:
>First duty spoilers>Assumptions!

>2) Kirk=Locarno theory>BS!
>   You are all basing your theories on no data.  We have almost
>   no data on Kirk's days at the academy.  As a matter of fact the Kobyashi
>   Maru is the only reference I've seen to Kirk's Academy Days.

You are probably going to get dozens of responses, so let me fall into
the pack somewhere...

1. We know that Kirk had a problem with an upper classman who caused him
   enough grief that Kirk was more than willing to severely beat him
   (I think the episode is `Shoreleave')

2. I believe that the incident with the blood-sucking energy cloud happened
   while Kirk was a cadet onboard a starship.

3. The one concerning Kirk's courtmartial... wasn't the event that caused
   the `dead man' to try to get Kirk related to what happened while both
   were cadets?  Or were they on board a ship?

Of course, there are various non-canon sources (e.g. Star Trek Comics)
that discussed Kirks Academy life, too, but I guess we can't bring
them in.

Mark Runyan
From: tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch)
Subject: Re: SPOILEReview: "The First Duty"
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 21:53:56 GMT

intertxt@network.ucsd.edu (Jason Snell) writes:

>SPOILERama!


>Anyway, this episode reminded me of "Family." 

In some ways, I suppose.  I'd actually been thinking more of "The Measure of
a Man" and "The Drumhead" in terms of "courtroom drama", but a lot of elements
from "Family" were here as well.

>This show was actually riveting, too, because Wesley's no longer a regular
>cast member.. and because I was shocked that they'd make Wesley do anything
>dumb at all. Nice work. Nice writing.

Very.

>I knew season 5 was improving, but this is ridiculous. I must be becoming soft
>in my old age.

Probably.  Just don't go back and watch "Disaster" now; if you end up 
grading it higher, I'm all alone!  :-)

Tim Lynch
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: joneil@heretix.East.Sun.COM (John O'Neil - SunExpress IR)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: TROI'S BIG BUTT
Date: 14 Apr 92 05:46:53 GMT
Reply-To: joneil@heretix.East.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: heretix.east.sun.com


harwood@cs.tulane.edu (Doug Harwood) writes:
> 
>   
> 
>     I think Troi's butt is getting bigger.  This week, it was especially
> large.

yeah, she got a big old butt,  maybe time to get rid of her, you know
"you grow, you go"


>     On a similar note, why is Picard bald?  Wouldn't modern science provide
> for baldness?  Maybe Steward didn't want to wear a wig?  *shrug*

what about how shiny his head is?? what does he use?? turtle wax??

>     Too bad Elvis can't visit the Genesis Planet.  He was a great singer.

new starship name:  USS GRACELAND

>     Which is faster: The Enterprise-D or Battlestar Galactica?

MY ISUZU IS FASTER THAN BOTH OF THEM!!!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current