HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fein@acsu.buffalo.edu (L. Fein)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Some REALLY SERIOUS gripes about empire
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:59:07 GMT
Organization: Land Of Faa.

In article <1992Oct13.154738.3991@schaefer.math.wisc.edu> duelge@schaefer.UUCP (Jason Duelge) writes:
>In article <Bw2E5v.vH@acsu.buffalo.edu> fein@acsu.buffalo.edu (L. Fein) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct13.110224.26310@schaefer.math.wisc.edu> duelge@schaefer.UUCP (Jason Duelge) writes:
>>>In article <Bw1nED.DL1@acsu.buffalo.edu> fein@acsu.buffalo.edu (L. Fein) writes:
>>>>
>>>>To sum up, my ignorant, inexperienced friend, things are the way they are
>>>>in Empire because (with a few exceptions) they work. And there are good
>>>>reasons for keeping things like they are. You are complaining about the 
>>>>very fundamentals of this game. (It *IS* a game, you know. Right? :)
>>>>If the very basics of Empire disturb you that much, perhaps you should
>>>>look for entertainment elsewhere.
>>>
>>>I think we might have to stop calling you Land_of_Faadar and start calling
>>>you Land_of_People_Without_a_Clue.
>>
>>	Gosh, you sure are funny. 
>>
>I'm not as funny as you inadvertently are.

	Again with the snappy rebuke? Boy, you sure are good..

>
>>>Jeez ... Barbary Coast inexperienced???
>>
>>Sure looks that way to me. Look at the drivel he posted.
>>
>BC was a very good empire player before you ever soiled the net
>with your first lame attempt at a game.  He's also always been
>a very funny guy.  You must be newish, or dense, to have missed
>this in the last ... 1 1/2 years at least.

	Golly gee. I've only been playing Empire for 3 years now. And *YOU* 
should talk about lame. The player that never lost without an excuse.
>
>>>You sure don't understand the concept of humor do you?  I bet you play
>>>empire 8 hours a day, don't you?
>>
>>	Not by a long shot. I work 16 hours a day. For someone who's supposedly
>>so god awful busy with real world committments, you sure have a lot of time
>>to run your ignorant mouth, don't you?
>>
>You work 16 hours a day?  At 4.25$ an hour, i guess that makes you
>a pretty wealthy guy???


Double that. then double it again. Some of us don't have to pimp our
wives on the corner to make money. Or pick up empth pop cans. 

>Also, it only took me about 10 minutes to reply to your STUPID post,

	Yes, that's about how much thought you must have put into it.
Course, from what' I've heard about you, you're worse than herpes. You never
go away, and you're pretty damn annoying.

>8 minutes of my uncontrollable laughter, then 2 minutes of typing.

	Look at your crank or something? 

>I'm laughing even HARDER at your even STUPIDER rebuttal to me.

Laughing? Why? Cause you're so cool?



>
>>>
>>>Jason -- Temekula
>>
>>Perhaps that should read "Retiree without a Clue"?
>>
>>>
>>>still retired, but incredibly amused by this recent thread.
>>
>>	So if you're so retired, shut up and go away.
>>LOF
>
>You seem to be the one who needs a clue.


	OK! I'll guess Mr Mustard did it in the kitchen with the noose! :-)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
Subject: Re: YEAH! YEAH! YEAH!
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 10:51:21 GMT
Organization: Colorado Springs IT Center

fsjjp@acad3.alaska.edu (Whatya Want?  Get Screwed) writes:
>         yeah .. I know I was bitching .. but, hey, it's a free world...
>         Now that's I've vented my spleen, guess it's time to get back 
>         to the "Real World" and work .. and then maybe I can seek
>         entertainment elsewhere.....and maybe another empire game
>         in the future weeks when RL isn't intruding....
> Stuart_Hall
> aka Corwin

I wasn't going to stick my nose in this, BUT..:_)

That line about "maybe another empire game in the future weeks when
RL isn't intruding" cracked me up.  When I list the articles in
R.G.E., and see something about "co-ruler needed", instantly
I think "gotta be Corwin..."  and am rarely disappointed..:-)
I've never seen anyone have to get bailed out of a game SO often...

But it *does* make for a good laugh now and then..:-)

Walter

Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: dale@hecate.hecate.phy.queensu.ca (Dale Swanston)
Subject: I'm new. 
Organization: Queen's University, Kingston
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 02:31:26 GMT

I'm new here is there a FAQ kicking about.  I've played an Empire
game on a PC how are these ones run?

Thanks.

Dale Swanston
Dept of Physics
Queen's University
Kingston Ontario Canada
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: cashman@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Geoff Cashman)
Subject: Re: Alternate strategies in Empire
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 05:32:02 GMT

While I tend towards agreeing with most posters on this thread that
plague should be removed, I wish to offer some counter points to 
the people proposing removing it. 

Plague has a negligible effect from 3.00 down, but from 3.00 up it
starts to have a serious effect.  Note I said starts.  As the plague
factor gets stronger, it can has a seriously debilitating effect
on your country. 

For an example, the game in which the infamous Sinergy was played.
Sinergy and Mithrilien were of nearly equal tech levels, with
Mithrilien holding a firm lead.  Both countries observed and noted
that plague was having a very debilitating effect on critical areas
of production.  It was not fun watching 20 sectors go from full
population to less than 50 civilians in an update.  Even on a 
country of 400 sectors, this begins to have a very serious effect.

In addition, at that point in the game, neither country had significant
resources to toy around with.  To have to devote precious oil to
research production was seriously detrimental.  But what do you
do?  Watch your sectors go up in plague ridden bed-sheet smoke
or pour oil into research?

Research has little or no impact on most countries beneath
tech 250.  Most games these days just don't make it that far.  
Tech has been slowed down in most games, and so many games have
just one update a day now that reaching serious tech levels
has become nearly a thing of the past.  When was the last time
anyone flew a stealth fighter?  

While you may not like research it does several things:
1) provides a realism that would be absent with out it.  A real world
   nation spending billions on defense and precious little on medicine
   is going to be in bad shape (hrrmm....sounds vaguely familiar).
2) Slows down the tech mongers once they reach higher tech levels.
   If you're still around at this point, this can be to your advantage.
3) Makes oil an extremely precious commodity in longer games.  I'd rather
   not see oil get tossed onto the heap of other commodities that are
   now incredibly easier to come by. 


				- Geoff Cashman
				  aka Mithrilien
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
Subject: Looking for Hajtaj  
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 11:53:57 GMT
Organization: Colorado Springs IT Center

> hajtaj
 
Would the ruler of Hajtaj please email me?

Thanks,

Walter Smith / UUCP
smithw@cs.itc.hp.com
(formerly smith_w@apollo.hp.com)
From: geg@beep.mis.semi.harris.com (Gregory E. Garland)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Mods 'n Stuff
Keywords: Squash
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:39:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: mlb.1992Oct16.163912.2188
Organization: Manufacturing Systems, HSS

In article <1992Oct16.095903.19870@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, alasda@nyx.cs.du.edu (Andrew Lasda) writes:
|> 
|> 	Someone threw up the comment "if you want to see a mod, why don't you
|> just *code* it?" or something to that general effect.  Well, I lack the time,
|> the computer space, and the coding knowledge.  Besides, If I *could* code
|> this stupid stuff, don't you think I would? :)  I give the inspiration, 
|> someone better qualified can put forth the perspiration.
|> 

Reminds me of when a friend went on a recruiting trip to a college, 
and two of the interviewees said that the job they wanted was to be
"idea men". :-)  Ain't no jobs out there for "idea men".

Serially, though, I already have an 'idea' for the name for the code
options i would make if I ever dived into the code and tried to do the
brilliant mods that I _know_ belong there; I'd call them the "WEENIE"
mods:

#ifdef WEENIE
#define VAVAVOOM
#define COWABUNGA
...
etc. :-)
-- 
Greg Garland - Alive, occupying space, and exerting gravitational force

MS 62-024, Harris Semiconductor Sector, PO Bx 883, 
Melbourne  FL 32905.  geg@beep.mis.semi.harris.com

"Never let the facts interfere with your perception of reality."
From: elf@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Wanderer)
Subject: Re: Some REALLY SERIOUS gripes about empire
Organization: the Elves of Briton
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 20:51:19 GMT

fein@acsu.buffalo.edu (L. Fein) writes:
>To sum up, my ignorant, inexperienced friend, things are the way they are
>in Empire because (with a few exceptions) they work.

If everybody thought that "empire" was good enough, we'd still be back there 
playing with the original code.  Thankfully players have noticed things they
don't like, or things that didn't work, and we've had them changed.

Owen Reynolds (Barbary Coast), is one of the better (and more experienced)
players around. His suggestions have always been good ones, and in general
playable, and for the benefit of the players. And as in this case, also
presented in a humourous fasion.

He's also a much better player then you'll ever be, but then again, so am I.

-michael
-the Elf
From: mytelka@codon1 (Daniel Mytelka;612 Barker;x2-5110)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Making research meaningful
Date: 7 Oct 1992 22:04:02 GMT
Organization: University of California
NNTP-Posting-Host: codon1.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Oct7.205404.4751@schaefer.math.wisc.edu> duelge@schaefer.UUCP (Jason Duelge) writes:
>Let me say a few words against the 'new plague'
>Plague was bad, but it wasn't so bad that the
>Europeans stopped fighting amongst themselves!
>Also, empire is a wargame, and a playable one
>at that.  How much playability will we lose
>from this increased form of plague?

I feel that the suggestions I made yield a minimum of problems with
playability. It means that you'll have to avoid moving things into
and out of plague sectors, but you had to do that before and now
you can easily see which sectors are aflicted without having to
refer to a paper map or tool. The only thing you'll have to do is
make a choice early in the game as to how much tech you think you
can get away with building, or how much risk of plague you're
willing to take. It'll have very interesting consequences late in
the game: player A decides to make tech as fast as possible, but doesn't
make any research; late in the game he suffers outbreaks of plague and
his country falls apart in the face of unchecked disease. The point
is that what empire needs is a BALANCE! Something that one needs to
make that competes with tech, something that will create a playoff
so people can't just blast tech.



[Repeat of idea for linking research to pop growth deleted]

I think that this idea is feasible but far less playable than the
above suggestion. Can you imagine having to calculate 
fluctuating population growth to know how much food a sector will
need the next turn, or to be able to build things optimally or whatever?
It would be an enormous addition to the complexity of playing.

I think that a major point that I forgot to make before that applies
to either idea, however, is that it must be implemented such that it
is important to make research early in the game. We don't want to
create a playoff that will only kick in when people have jillions of
extra dollars and cm's lying around. For my idea, the easiest way
to do this would be to have plague chance be much higher when tech is
way above research. Something like (tech+10)/(research+10)% would
maintain the initial 1% chance of plague, but would drastically
increase the chance for a person who reaches say tech 50 without any
research (6% chance). And early on is when the player would be least
able to deal with it too :-)

>
>Jason -- Temekula

Dan Mytelka, mytelka@mendel.berkeley.edu -- Langerhans

Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: fsjjp@acad3.alaska.edu (Whatya Want?  Get Screwed)
Subject: YEAH! YEAH! YEAH!
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41.UAC
Organization: P.A.R.A.N.O.I.A
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 04:59:00 GMT

        yeah .. I know I was bitching .. but, hey, it's a free world...
        Now that's I've vented my spleen, guess it's time to get back 
        to the "Real World" and work .. and then maybe I can seek
        entertainment elsewhere.....and maybe another empire game
        in the future weeks when RL isn't intruding....

        BTW, Wanderer,  The game wasn't announced on the net.  The
        Deity didn't want to any top players in it.  No, I'm not at 
        the bottom, nor do I claim any place in fame ..


Stuart_Hall
aka Corwin
#include BITNET <FSJJP@ALASKA.BITNET>
#include EMAIL <FSJJP@ACAD3.ALASKA.EDU>
From: duelge@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jason Duelge)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: X-mas mods, etc...
Date: 11 Oct 92 18:00:10 GMT
Reply-To: duelge@schaefer.UUCP (Jason Duelge)
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics

In article <BvxFH2.LKn@nic.umass.edu> elf@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Wanderer) writes:
>From: duelge@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jason Duelge)
>    |sneak attacks.  Pearl Harbor *doesn't* count.
>
>why not? it sure seamed like a sneak attack to me.
>
>-michael
>
We had been waging economic war on the Japanese for quite
a while (as a result of their actions in the pacific.)
While i'm not one of those people that believes the higher
ups 'let' the attack happen to galvanize us into fighting
the war, i do believe that the attack was quite a major
blunder on the USA's part, ie letting the Japanese fleet
get that close, mistaking the attacking planes for B-17s,
etc.
I would compare Pearl Harbor to a late night attack on
a country you aren't getting along with (at war but not
fighting) ... with perhaps a poor substitute running your
country while you are on vacation.  You get back, see you
lost some stuff, and get mad and kick ass.

Jason -- Temekula

-- 
 Jason Duelge  'Did they get you to trade your heroes for ghosts?'        
 141 Lakewood  'You better make your face up in your favorite disguise.' 
  Gardens ln   'In the bottom of our hearts we felt the final cut.'       
 Madison, WI   '(I) kept my heart in dark ruins.'
From: dtwei@acsu.buffalo.edu (Danielle T Wei)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Some REALLY SERIOUS gripes about empire
Date: 12 Oct 92 20:08:30 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <reynolds.718915819@judy.cs.iastate.edu> reynolds@cs.iastate.edu (Owen Reynolds) writes:
>
>FOOD -- I'm from the big cities, but I've been living in Iowa for a while
>STARVING -- There are two kinds of people in starving sectors: people

I say the whole idea of food is too complex/boring. Why don't we do what
they did for PC-empire, make food a national level..

>PEOPLE IN GENERAL -- There's no one phrase which would be used to describe

What I don't understand is how 1 person can become 10 people in a few turns
talk about inbreeding!!

>EFF -- It's allready been established empire people are stupid, so I
>  won't even touch the fact that a big piece of wood sinks at less than
>  20%, but you can find a guy to FLY a 10% erector set and bailing wire
>  airplane.
>    No, my big beef is with repairing damage. It just takes work. No lcms,
>  no hcms, just work. So does a 50% battleship just have one really big
>  dent in it, or what?

I agree with you here.. But I also think that the current ship-strategies
are too stupid.. Why, battleships are just sitting ducks for the submarines
not to mention that a patrolboat can simply fire at an unarmed battleship
for 100 turns and eventually sink it.. Come on!! Can't that destroyer just
2 sectors away come over and help?? Can't the battleship run??

Also, the ship-names are totally useless.. Why give baptise the ships if
your enemies cannot even see it?!?!? IMO, the attack report should tell
you the name of the attacking ship.. More realistic

Also, the fighters on the ground should learn not to expose themselves
when they see only more powerful fighters above them, and save the energy
for the bombers

Also, why can't you place bombers on the carriers?? How do they think
Japan bombed Pearl Harbor??

Lastly, you should be told the location of the attacking guns when you're
being shelled

NW
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
From: kpearce@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (BULLDAWG)
Subject: Re: Alternate strategies in Empire
Keywords: Stupid
Organization: LSF Ministry of Mis-information
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 21:12:25 GMT

In article <1b259qINNg43@agate.berkeley.edu> mytelka@codon9.berkeley.edu () writes:
>I have heard a number of comments about plague coding changes, mostly negative.

Perhaps we should remember for a moment why plague was introduced:  to give
high tech producers something to worry about.

>I think that I agree that it doesn't really create new strategies particularly,
>which was my original goal. It's true that one can try varying risk levels in

What is wrong with eliminating research and plague altogther?


> Stuff deleted <

>
>At the beginning of the game, everyone chooses something to specialize in:
>lcm production, hcm production or iron production. As they build tech,
>they became capable of building higher tech types of whatever they specialize
>in. For example, an lcm prodcuer who passes tech 50 can build tech 50 lcm's,

Good god, high tech tin-foil and high tech beams.

Jeez, I think I will take the tech 150 ham sandwich on rye.  What, musturd is
tech 200?  Jeez, I think I'll pass.

> More stuff deleted.
>
>Disadvantages: 
>
>   It's a stupid sounding idea.

OK.  }:)

>
>   It makes a lot of new items which have to be kept track of.

Very true.

>
>   Coding is non-trivial.

Ah, and who will do it?

>
>   It's not strictly realistic; nations don't specialize that much.
>           Perhaps they should be able to make other stuff at tech-50.

Bannana republics do and other fodderous countries  }:)

>
>   It adds to the complexity of the game.

No kidding.

>
>Advantages:
>
>   It creates differences between countries (different strategies).

Hmmm, I think that most countries have very different aspects, at least 
unless you are a super-player with a traditional style (whatever that is).

>
>   It forces countries to trade with each other to get raw materials.

Why force?  The trading ship mods with market disabled do that and that is
already coded.

>
>   It creates natural alliances of complementary producers.

Hmmmm.  I can imagine a scenerio where everybody produces lcms and nothing
else.  Imagine the trouble.

>
>   It creates natural trade wars as countries attempt to monopolize an area.

Ugghhhh.  I am getting a headache.
>
>   It creates true alliances, where knocking out one country of an alliance
>        can cripple that alliance, so they all have to work together for
>        common good (more real-world like).

Hmmm, no there is an idea, not that taking out an alliance member is nor with-
out consequences at it is.

Oh well.  See my previous post.
Ken
LSF

kpearce@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
            __          _____       ________
           / /\        //  __\     / /_____/\
          / / /       //  ( |||   / /\_____\/
         / / /        \\  \      / /_/___
        / / /           ))  )   / /_____/\
       / /_/__           )) )  / /\_____\/
      /______/\    |||__|| /  / / /
       \_____\/    \\____/    \_\/  (tm)

where I work, not where I play.
From: ccoprmd@prism.gatech.EDU (Matthew DeLuca)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Learning Experience!! or Geeze, guess I got him pissed
Keywords: dick, asshole, fuckhead
Date: 7 Oct 92 13:56:12 GMT
Organization: The Dorsai Grey Captains

In article <6OCT199220555114@acad3.alaska.edu> fsjjp@acad3.alaska.edu (Whatya Want?  Get Screwed) writes:

>        Did the DEITY have the right to remove access to the country
>        and give it away, or should he have just remove the country.

It's his game, and he has *all* rights.  I don't know where you got that 
bullshit about he has to permit a coruler if he meets certain criteria, 
because the *deity* sets the rules, and if he says you can't have one, 
that's it.

There is no international rules of empire...each deity makes the local 
rules, and what he says goes.

>        His first mistake was taking the country away.
>        His second mistake was in giving it to a newbie.
>        His third mistake was he should have just removed the country.

>        What say's the Empire Community.....

Your mistake is that you have absolutely no clue what the hell is going on.

Your first mistake is that you are acting like a fodder.
Your second mistake is not having a clue about the role of a deity in a game.
Your third mistake is taking your whining and crying to the net.  
Your fourth mistake is posting private e-mail.  Everyone knows that that is 
absolutely against all rules of net etiquette.

This part of the empire community says get the hell off the net.
-- 
Matthew DeLuca             "We should grant power over our affairs only to
Georgia Tech                those who are reluctant to hold it and then only
Information Technology      under conditions that increase the reluctance."
ccoprmd@prism.gatech.edu              - Coda of the Bene Gesserit
From: dtwei@acsu.buffalo.edu (Danielle T Wei)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Blitz Game Results
Date: 13 Oct 92 02:13:15 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <92285.231735UD177385@NDSUVM1.BITNET> UD177385@NDSUVM1.BITNET (Chad Zabel) writes:
>Spitzberg   0    0%   0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0  163K

Thank you, thank you.. I left for a Buffalo Bills party around 2PM, gave
away my capital, but still ended up with the secondmost cash

Thank you, thank you :)
From: houk@athena.cs.uga.edu (Joshua Houk)
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire
Subject: Re: Learning Experience!! or Geeze, guess I got him pissed
Keywords: dick, asshole, fuckhead
Date: 7 Oct 92 14:18:51 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <6OCT199220555114@acad3.alaska.edu> fsjjp@acad3.alaska.edu (Whatya Want?  Get Screwed) writes:
>=====>  As of 1930 tonight, 5 minutes after I completed this conversation
>        with the DEITY (Also known as BattleZone, Dire_Straights and other
>        fodderous countries) he removed access to my country and gave it to
>        a newbie.  Also I would like the Empire community to know that he
>        has access to numerous accounts and like to request 2 - 4 countries
>        per game (1 from each of his accounts) and ally them to form a power
>        block.  Since I will not be playing in any of his games again,
>        AND HE CANNOT REMOVE MY STUDENT ACCOUNT (although he does have the
>        power to do it) due to his being on the bottom of the power chart
>        of Computer Consultants (hehe) and My not doing anything illegal .. 
>        Hence I wished to warn the Empire Community of this guy .. 

My god - the horror! This calls for extreme action - just blow up the
whole damn school...

:)

Face it - the Deity made rules that you didn't want to follow. You
whined about it like an asinine newbie. He took away your
country. Good for him. If I was him - I'd probably just conveniently
removed all your food right before the update...hee hee...

(Note: There's no chance of me deiting a game... so don't flame that,
'kay? Sheesh...)

Joshua Houk
-- 
houk@athena.cs.uga.edu * email for indie-list info!
"Fuck the rules and make me yours tonight." - Kicking Giant