HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From:  (David Ingham)
Subject: Re: Covenant with AIDS
Organization: Beer R Us
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:15:54 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written

In article <1993Jan20.050904.5207@atlantis.uucp>, aaron@atlantis.uucp
wrote:
> 
> A strange idea(maybe not even an idea--a conceit)came to me a couple of
> nights ago.
> 
> Would Thomas Covenant have worked with AIDS instead of leprosy?
> 
> I realize that when Donaldson originally wrote the trilogy, AIDS wasn't
> extant(was it?), and that he was more familiar with leprosy from his
> father's work, but still--I got to wondering.
> 
> He wouldn't be able to determine the effects of the hurtloam as quickly,
> since I don't think AIDS has as perceptible symptoms as leprosy.  And the
> constant need for VSE's in leprosy doesn't really have an equivalent in AIDS.
> But a good writer could, perhaps, think of equivalents or merely obviate the
> need for them.
> 
> Any other comments?  Seawasp, you're a Covenant expert--what do you think?
> 
Hmmm.  I don't think the story as written would work with AIDS for
leperosy.  I think one of the things that make leprosy work that would not
work with AIDS is the health of the person.  With AIDS your health declines
and you eventualy must be under constant medical care, there is not much
the victim can do to slow down the effects of the disease.  With leperosy
the disease is much more hidden and controlable by the victim.  The will of
Covenant to keep up his very strict regiment of survival is key to the
story.
So, while a story could be written with Covenant with AIDS ( or cancer, or
herpes or whatever), it would not be the same story because the facts of
the illness are different.
 
*************************************************
* David Ingham  *   Place wacky signature here  *
*************************************************
From: chuq@Apple.COM (Crow's Friend Timmy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Keith Laumer died
Date: 23 Jan 93 22:28:35 GMT
Organization: Next Thursday A.D.

Just heard from Joe Haldeman that Keith Laumer died of a stroke last night.
Age was 67.

Sigh.

-- 
            Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX)
                      Member, SFWA =+= Editor, OtherRealms
                chuq@apple.com | GEnie: MAC.BIGOT | ALink:CHUQ 

          I'm history! No! I'm mythology! Whatever, I'm outta here!
From: sherman@SOL1.LRSM.UPENN.EDU (Bill Sherman (Bill Graham's group))
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Kay's Fironavar Tapestry **Spoilers**
Date: 21 Jan 93 19:29:39 GMT


	I am a bit surprised to see quite so much criticism of FT.
Personally, I thought that the books were some of the best fantasy
I've ever read.  There were several reasons for that.
	First of all, I enjoyed how Kay used the existing literature
to his advantage.  He used all the old cliche's, but he turned about
half of them on their ear.  For example, I loved the way the
Soulmonger messed up the heavenly picture of the afterlife of the lios
alfar/elves. I also liked the fact that the old king Brandin finally
fell from grace not by pride (like all the other Great Old Kings of
the literature), but from simple fear.  I liked the fact that, after
lining the high priestess (forget her name) up as the annoying
intruiger who will always mess things up, he actually makes her part
of the team in a more realistic way (I loved Paul's line "Don't
overestimate your own malevolence").  It was a relief, that, for once
the main romance of the novel (which, I seem to be the only one who
thinks is Diarmuid's, not Guenivere's) ended in tragedy.  I liked the
fact that Diarmuid's brother was not the
all-round-great-guy-who-can-solve-all-problems that Aragorn was.  For
a change, the poor waif who vanquished the evil overlord died in the
process.  For once the head-wizard actually looses his power for real,
and doesn't get it back (even though Kay gave himself the perfect
opening for it by having Matt Soren revived).  Again and again, Kay
played off the standard line and stretched the form.  Kay didn't
just rehash the old stuff, he used it as a springboard.
	The second thing I liked about the series was that it included
the psychology of the characters.  Call me a sucker for pop
psychology, but I like hearing about their motivations/family life.  I
think it is essential for building decent characters, and almost
nobody even bothers with it.  I thought it brought a lot to the book
to see the contrast between Dave's family in our world, and his
relationship with his bloodbrother, and that "family."  I was
interested in how each character's psychological baggage influenced
them.

Bill Sherman
Dept. of Physics,
University of Pennsylvania
sherman@sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu
From:   <  @  >
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A78AC9FC04010072@naranja-quadra.stanford.edu>
X-Xxdate: Tue, 26 Jan 93 02:59:08 GMT
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d17
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 18:57:33 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.060948.6624@muddcs.claremont.edu> Eli Brandt,
ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu writes:
>> For that matter, exactly how many forsaken
>> are there and have we met or killed them all yet?
>
>The thirteen Forsaken are named in the back of TSR.  Some are dead;
>some we've met or heard of; some we know nothing about.
>
 on page 391 of TSR, rand states that there are 9 of the forsaken still
"alive"
 
 also, Rand's mother, the maiden of the spear, was NOT aiel, she was
taken in
 by them and tought their ways.
From: altam@ocf.berkeley.edu (Allen Tam)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Dave Duncan
Date: 21 Jan 1993 19:42:00 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: tornado.berkeley.edu

In article <TOMW.93Jan8193853@orac.asd.sgi.com> tomw@asd.sgi.com writes:
>
>EaC is the fourth book in the first series.  TEC is the first book in
>the second series.  You should be able to find Eac.  It's been out for a
>while.
>

So does _The_Cutting_Edge continue from where _Emperor_and_Clown left
off?  Or is it the start of a brand new series with new characters?
I'm curious, because I've yet to see it in bookstores yet.

 Allen Tam
From: knott@sfu.ca (Dave Knott)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai  (When's the next WOT book?)
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:27:09 GMT
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada

In article <1993Jan27.165454.18692@llyene.jpl.nasa.gov>  
julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas) writes:
> 
> Ok, I have to ask so please forgive me :)
> 
> When will the next book be out?  It seems like TSR
> was *soooo* *loooong* ago.
> 
> Sigh, just another person unable to get her
> Robert Jordan/Julian May/Tad Williams fix on time.....
> 
> I CAN'T WAIT ANY LONGER.  CHAIN THEM TO DESKS AND
> FORCE THEM TO WRITE!!!  INTO THE DUNGEONS UNTIL THEY
> FINISH THE SERIES!!!!
> 

	Don't hold your breath waiting for the next _Wheel of Time_ book  
to come out. My guess is that it won't be available until September '93 at  
the earliest. _The Shadow Rising_ was only released last October and  
Jordan seems release his books at approximately one year intervals. And if  
you think about it, that's actually pretty damn fast compared to the vast  
majority of other authors (Piers Anthony excepted). Besides, I would  
rather wait a long time for an excellent book than have Jordan rush and  
release an only adequate one. I agree that its very frustrating though.  
Actually, I'm sort of looking forward to re-reading all of the books from  
front to back when the next one comes out.

Dave Knott
knott@sfu.ca
From: markrose@spss.com (Mark Rosenfelder)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Is SF imaginative?
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:00:07 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

In article <1jq6al$828@agate.berkeley.edu> curtis@cs.berkeley.edu 
(Curtis Yarvin) writes:
>To do things right, one has to remain at all times non-judgmental.  To
>present the problem, and let the reader come up with his own solution.
>To avoid contrivances of plot and character, bogus "realizations,"
>obvious pigeonholing of good and evil... and so forth.
>
>It may sound easy, but it is not.  Everyone sees the world through the
>filter of their own ideology; it is hard to show it clearly.
>
>But I believe it is worth the attempt.  Examples of success might
>include some of the works of Iain Banks; of Ian McDonald; William
>Gibson (though it's easy to be cool, when you're such a damn
>minimalist); [...]

Gibson?  He's as ideological as they come, I'd say.  The consistent use
of dystopia and moral neutrality *is* an ideological statement.

In article <ESCHNEID.93Jan23160217@sparc8.tamu.edu> eschneid@sparc8.tamu.edu 
(Erich R Schneider) writes:
>To reiterate: I originally came up with this idea (which I admitted
>was simplistic) when thinking about the differences between classical
>"storytelling" and modern literature. One of the difference I saw was
>that "traditional storytelling" played a role of reinforcing cultural
>norms, while modern writers have often felt a need to examine cultural
>norms critically. 

Mmm, strike "modern".  You want critical examination of cultural norms?
Try Plato, dismissing Athenian democracy and religion; Lucian, the Monty
Python of ancient Rome; 1 Samuel 8, which contains a nice denunciation of
the Israelite monarchy; Milton, ditto for the English one; Cervantes and
Ariosto, satirizing the whole epic tradition; Chaucer, lampooning clerics
and aristocrats in a time where some argued these ruled by divine right...

It could probably maintained that much of the most prestigious literature of 
the 20C is fairly anti-establisment as epochs go, but I don't know that you 
could go much further than that.

Food for thought: C.S. Lewis suggested that 1950s American s.f. served as a 
form of social criticism in an otherwise strikingly conformist society.
From: Beth.Friedman@p5.f341.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Beth Friedman)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Fan Fiction--Copyright Infringement? (LONG)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 19:58:12 -0600

 > It has been claimed that the line of the future Henry V 
 > in Shakespeare's _Henry IV_, "First thing let's do is 
 > shoot all the lawyers," is meant to show his reckless 
 > youth.  

Couple of problems with this.  Prince Hal didn't say that, Dick the Butcher
(during Jack Cade's rebellion) did. And it wasn't in HENRY IV, it was HENRY VI,
Part 2.  And what he said was, "First thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

It's a great line out of context, but in context it's spoken by a member of a
revolutionary group (in the worst sense of the word) led by a man who kills a
clerk because he can read and write his own name and who will promise anything
to the crowd as long as they'll support him.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jpark2@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (John J Park)
Subject: 4? There are 4 Chung-Kuo novels already?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 03:18:55 GMT

   Now I know it has been a while since I read about the "Middle Kingdom" but 4?I was patiently waiting for the 2nd to hit our library and/or the local Waldens in Illinois. Now Im being informed that I have 3 500+ page books to add to my already large skyscraper of sf books waiting patiently to read. *sigh*






   John Park

   <"Witticism and quotes are simply fillers of space to try childishly to make ones posting seem important or more interesting than it is*>


   Got any good ones?
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Pratchett:  Witches Abroad
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:28:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1993Jan25.202819.5653
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)

Pratchett's latest Discworld novel, "Witches Abroad" is here, two years
after it appeared in England (which is clearly counter to my idea of
fair international trade).  It's still well written, it's still funny,
though it's not hilarious in the way the Discworld novels were before
they became too familiar.

It's also more serious than the earlier novels.  Along with a deliberately
silly story of three witches travelling at the behest of Emberella's
fairy godmother (to make sure she doesn't marry the prince) are questions
about the limits of power and benevolence, and the point at which doing
'good' is more harmful than not.  (This accounts, in part, for Granny
Weatherwax's insistence on not using magic when headology will suffice.)

I'd say the Discworld series is getting a bit too long in the tooth --
but it's still good fun.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
 Are full of passionate intensity." -- W.B. Yeats
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: knott@sfu.ca (Dave Knott)
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 03:49:30 GMT

In article <1jn8f4INNqn8@sumax.seattleu.edu> harrity@sumax.seattleu.edu  
(Zak) writes:
> Just a couple little tidbits I've come across in the recent past, sorry  
if
> I'm repeating something you already know:
> 
> Aes Sedai:
> 
> 	For the longest time, nobody I've known or seen the writings of
> has been able to come up with any "real-world" tradition/myth/religion
> that fits the concept of Aes Sedai.  However, I've recently been given  
to
> know that El Shadai is, if my source was right, a Hebrew term for God. 
> Sorry...no leads on Saidin/Saidar, though.
> 
> Grand Inquisitor General of the Children of the Light:
> 
> 	Or whatever the hell the term was..."Grand Inspector Inquisitor
> Whatever" is a similar term to a Masonic rank.
> 
> Children of the Light:
> 
> 	American Quakers originally referred to themselves by this term.
> 
> Whitecloaks:
> 
> 	An old (derogatory?) term for the Knights Templar.
> 
> Sa'angreal:
> 
> 	The Sang Real = The Holy Grail (a fount of power).
> 
> Shayol Ghul:
> 
> 	Sheol = Hebrew term for "hell"  (So what does "sharom" mean?)
> 
> Anybody got any others?  One of these days, I'll compend a list.... :)
> 

	Actually, I've noticed that Jordan seems to really enjoy putting  
references to known myths and legends into his work. It's quite neat to be  
reading along and suddenly realize that there is an analogy between the  
Wheel of Time world and our own.

For example: The name of Artur Hawkwing. His true name is Artur Paendrag  
something-or-other. This is suspiciously close to the legend of King  
Arthur (of Camelot), who was known as Arthur the Pendragon. There is sort  
of a link here between England's greatest king and the greatest king in  
the history of the Third Age.
	Co-incidence? I think not.


Dave Knott
knott@sfu.ca
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: steevesm@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: Re: The the great ongoing misogyny/misandry discussion
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:58:15 GMT

In article <"22-Jan-93..8:18:23.EST".*.Alexandra_Haropulos.ADFMcLean_CSD@Xerox.com>, Alexandra_Haropulos.ADFMcLean_CSD@XEROX.COM writes:
> 
> Folks (or Filks), we are all in this together. I like to read books where 
>there are males and females cooperating equally as members of the human race.

Actually, if you want some rather ironic humor, try reading Robert Jordan's
"The Wheel of Time" series.  You get comments from *both* sexes on what the
other sex is like in terms of major flaws, but you also see things from each
point of view (ie. the man being "simple" according to him, and not 
understanding the "complicated women", and vice versa).  On the whole, it
adds an amusing subplot to the whole thing.

-darkelf
-----
"I have no brother, am like no brother;
 And this word "love", which the greybeards call divine,
 Be resident in men like one another
 And not in me.  I am myself alone."
	-Gloucester, Henry VI Pt. 3
-----
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton)
Subject: Re: How Can You Lose a Planet?
Organization: ClariNet Communications Corp.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:26:27 GMT

In article <199301211657.AA28127@bio-rad.com> mlo@bio-rad.com writes:
>I think that you are all still underestimating the size and
>complexity of the Library.  To begin with, I don't think that
>a 'text-only' library is at all plausible.  Galactic information

It isn't.   However, a library of all the important text is.  People
are ignoring that the librarians and other will do some work on classifying
text.  You won't have every usenet post from every planet, no, but
neither would you have less than a copy of "the seminal study" or its
equivalent on every planet and its major facets.

Some information is hard to classify.  Most information is hard to classify,
but *some* information is easy to classify and you would have that, in
text and diagram and the odd photo, and unless I miss my guess and molecular
storage is impossible, you would have it all on a chip.

Sure, you'll be unable to search for all references to a particular poet
on a planet a million years dead.  You will, however, be able to ask,
"who is widely considered the greatest poet of xxxyxxx, and show me it's
most famous poems."

And not having any storage on an entire planet is ridiculous. Sure to exist
is the National Galactographic Society's encyclopedia of planets, where
*they* would have searched all the libraries for every reference, sorted
out the salient facts and put it in their encyclopedia, which every ship
would carry.  It would be ridiculous for it to be otherwise.
-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Sunnyvale, CA 408/296-0366
From: carrot@bear.stonemarche.org (Little red-headed girl)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Joan Aiken
Date: 28 Jan 93 01:17:04 GMT


	Joan Aiken wrote many books and short stories. The ones that
are still in print (juveniles) take place in an alternate universe
where James the Third (son of Charles II, who was not executed by
the Puritans0 is on the throne of England, and include "The Wolves
of Willoughby Chase" and "Black Hearts in Battersea."

	That's the background. Now the question. Has anyone seen her
adult books or short stories anywhere? I seem to only be able to pick
them up at used book sales, so I'd be glad for a clue. I heartily
recommend just about everything she's written, regardless of your age.

Rachel

--
+--------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
|	carrot		   |	carrot@bear.stonemarche.org               |
+--------------------------+----------------------------------------------+ 
|   "Feel what might be. See what I see. Again and again and again and    |
| again say you don't. You say you don't, but you will.                   |
|   "How can you be so near and not see?" -"If You Intend"-10,000 Maniacs |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: cxc4107@hertz.njit.edu (Christopher Lee Cavender)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Enormous Big Things
Date: 24 Jan 93 07:40:23 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

Illegal Aliens by Nick Pollotta and Phil Foglio.
	Has two dyson spheres and one barrier that is more massive than the
plaent it surronds.
							Chris

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 What is Love? - Me             | "Repent Harlequin!" Said the Ticktockman |
 Love is Truth! - Plato         |------------------------------------------|
 What is Truth? - Pontus Pilate | "More Light! More Light!" Anthony Hecht  |
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Keywords: Sedai, Templar, Masonry
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:19:01 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)

erica@cc.gatech.edu (Erica Liebman Sadun):
>(3) Who was Mat? In rereading, I realize that he can't be King Arthur because
>	Art is one of the dead heroes that stops by to say hi y'all and 
>	call Rand Lewin.  My guess is aemon...

Mat seems to have inherited many people's memories.  For example, he
remembers being killed in that ambush *and* he remembers its aftermath.

>(4) OF course!  Gawyn == Gawain just as Galad == Galahad.

And Tigraine == Ygraine.  It's one of those persistent stories.

>(5) Why is Tigraine and not Breyan the mother of Rand?  I'm a bit confused
>	on this.  Remember that Luc/Isam looks an awful lot like Rand (same
>	mom?, indicating Breyan) and an awful lot like Lan (cousined dad). 
>	You'd imagine that he'd have to have blood from both.

If Luc is Tigraine's son, that would account for a great deal of similarity.

>(8) What IS the song of the Nim?  What did the Green Man have to do with them?
>    Clearly, the green man was not human.

The Green Man was the last Nim, whom we met in Rand's memories.  Same wound.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

Roses red and violets blew
  and all the sweetest flowres that in the forrest grew -- Edmund Spenser
From: magus@netcom.com (Magus)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Keith Laumer died
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:22:39 GMT
Organization: Sandor Arbitration Intelligence

Damn.


His Retief books are one of the few that get me to consistently smile when I
re-read them.
-- 
John Schmid		Internet: magus@netcom.com

  Do you ever feel like every day is a monday?
From: jason@ab20.larc.nasa.gov (Jason Austin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Any GOOD sf-magazines/bookclubs?
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:03:34
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA
Reply-To: Jason C. Austin <j.c.austin@larc.nasa.gov>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ab20.larc.nasa.gov
In-reply-to: expert@diku.dk's message of 26 Jan 93 14:05:59 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.140559.16746@odin.diku.dk> expert@diku.dk (Stephan Grubbe) writes:
-> I'm a big fan of Isaac Asimov and I have recently started reading his early
-> work. It seems that he used to get his work published via magazines. My
-> question is if such GOOD magazine still exist and if not does there exist a
-> sort of bookclub specially for sf?
-> 
-> 
-> thanks for any help
-> 
-> 
->    stephan (expert@diku.dk)

	There are tons of of science fiction magazines and book clubs
out there and some are even good.  Analog seems to be the easiest to
find around here; it comes in digest size, so look at the small stuff.
Once you get a copy, there are books clubs and other SF sources
advertised throughout.

	How about putting the mailing addresses of various SF
magazines in this group's FAQ? 
--
Jason C. Austin
j.c.austin@larc.nasa.gov

From: kers@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Chris Dollin)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 10:01:19 GMT
Subject: Re: Tolkien's (and Donaldson's) style (was Re: writing Styles)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.