X-Envelope-to: politics@ohstvma.bitnet
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:28:00 EST
From:         JCOCURUL@DREW.BITNET
Subject:      Re: gun control, kinda'
Comments: To: politics@ohstvma.bitnet

> From:         Teddy Jack Eddy <SPRG0002@TULSAJC.BITNET>
>
>> There is no room for debate about the intent of a criminal making use of a
>> firearm.  The threat carries with it an implied "You're going to die".  The
>> use of another type of weapon would generally lessen the immediate potential
>> for death.  It's hard to struggle with an airborne projectile.  If executing
>> criminals that make use of firearms results in a trend to less potent types
>> of weapons, then what's your problem?
>
The fact that someone uses a firearm in a crime doesn't mean they are
threating death on that person -- many use it to keep control of the
situation because a gun is more liable to inflict fear and a
determination not to resist than another weapon, but few are willing
to kill the person.  Your point was the fear that the gun inflicts on
the victim, not the likelyhood of death.  My point was that fear on
the level of say an armed robbery occurs in many instances not having
to do with guns.  Rape comes to mind.  Also the fear factor of armed
robbery isn't that much greater than other types robbery that uses
things besides guns.  The net effect is a great increase of death
penalty cases.

> I put value on ALL human life.  That is why it is such a tragedy that one
> would throw theirs away by committing a capital offense.  To attempt to
> equate the "pro-life" position pertaining to unborn children with some type
> of inconsistency on capital punishment is quite a stretch.  If you are
> unable to distinguish the execution of a murderer from the slaughter of
> a helpless child, you'll just have to live with your shortcomings.

committing a capital offence seems in your mind to justify the death
penalty, besides the fact you would argue for more capital offences,
including those cases when someone doesn't even die or is shot, but
just is greatly afraid of dying or being hurt.  I doubt if one notes
that a great many capital offenses are done by individuals who had
lives that continually took away the ability to restrain oneself from
violence matters to you.  One who valued human life would not kill
this person, but just put him in jail for life or something on that
level.
    I see the difference between abortion and the death penalty.  I
see that abortion is a religious issue centered on the personhood of a
fetus, while no one doubts the death penalty victim is a person.  I
see that abortion centers (80% of the time or more) on an embyro under
8 weeks that has a primitive nervous system and no life experiences
that society generally considers in defining the value of human life
while the death penalty victim has life experiences that often lead
him/her to a path that makes violence much more likely.  I see that
death penalty is inflicted in this country often in a random way to
poor Southerners while abortions occur usually to ensure the fetus
won't be born into a  lousy situation.  I see that abortion is usually
a mentally anguishing choice, while the death penalty is often a
choice of anger and retribution (especially when victim impact
statements are used like the criminal knew or cared how serious impact
were or if the fact there was less or more impact mattered on valueing
the life ended) without knowing the individual charged very well.
Yes, I see the differences.


>
>>........ I'm sick and damn tired of people selectively preserving life and
>>being so damn sanctimonious about it!
>>Joe
>
> I too am sick, of those that would consider children as discardable trash and
> of those that would place the interests of thugs in equality with their
> victims.  Here's hoping that you never have to experience firsthand the result
   s
> of your revolving door failure.

fetus/embryo = child ?  few agree with you, nor are they that
comparable, but that's another discussion.  Next, comes the idea the
women who have abortions are selfish thugs, not people who care about
inflicting her child to be with an unprepared or unable to cope mother
or a world that won't care for it very well.  This is especially the
case with c. 20% poor women esp. minorities who have abortions.
    I like the words of a man with some good ideas about caring for
those who inflict pain on you for anyone can help those who are nice
to you.

>
> To turn the heat up a little, I also believe that parole board members that
> vote to release a criminal prior to completion of his/her sentence should be
> held responsible, and tried as conspirators, for any crimes committed by the
> released before the intended completion date of the original sentence.
>
> ---Robert

this makes sense.  Say Michael Milkin gets parole, and afterwards
rapes someone.  The parole board who let him free for his investment
related crimes should be charged for this crime.

       -Joe
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