From: mykel.alvis@the-matrix.com (Mykel Alvis) 
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Women in CP/Industria
Date: 15 Nov 92 04:51:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The MATRIX BBS - Birmingham, AL - 205-323-2016
Reply-To: mykel.alvis@the-matrix.com (Mykel Alvis) 

>you can get just from classes. i've learned probably twice as much
>useful stuff on my own then i have in class. women don't seem to get
>into reading tech manuals & magazines & source code *just for the fun
>of it*. 
KH>     A lot of women, no. I avoid them unless I want an answer to
  >     a specific question - like a programming question, or a 
  >     specific bit of software in general.

I think the point of this section was that for *most* people (the majority
male), technical excellence with computers requires the obsession with 
the technical.  I don't really know if it has anything to do with the
societal influences (acutally, I don't know how *much*).  Quite a bit, I'm
sure.  
>i guess what i'm trying to say is that women aren't expected to be
>as obsessive about things as men. 
KH>     Sure we are. Haven't you ever listened to women discussing
  >     men, makeup, hair, clothes, fashion, soap operas? I'm willing

Careful here, you're stereotyping :)
Seriously though, I agree that _people_ are obsessive.  The direction of this
argument is such that the nature of the obsessions have a different value for
mens vs. womens.  The obsessions of men (in this case technical knowledge) 
outweigh the value of the obsessions of the women (pick your favorite example
from your list) based on the measure created by society.  But that's sort
of off-topic.
>how do we promote these topics as fun to women? should -anyone-
>think they're fun? i happen to think so, but then again, i'm biased.
KH>     I think computers are a blast. Then, I've been playing with them
  >     for 8 years now. (I'm 18. Simple math). 
  >     Anyway, it's simple. Get rid of the society bias that women
  >     aren't as competent with machines/technology as men. That should
  >     fix everything quite nicely.
While I'm at it, would you like peace on earth, good will towards men, and a
cure for the common cold? :)
It's great that you have a penchant for computers (assumed that you do).  But
that makes you something of an anomoly (sp?) in our current society.  The 
solution to this problem reminds me of a Star Trek: TNG episode that I didn't
watch (never do).  Virus in the computer, so they suggest just reloading from
a clean backup.  Problem is, our society has no clean backup.  This has
been going on for a long, long time.
Major changes in the mental makeup of society are interesting to think about, 
but really don't exist except as amassed groups of tiny changes.  As I stated 
elsewhere, social change is rarely achieved in any positive way by major 
upheaval.  It occurs best in large numbers of small ways.  Shaping, a 
therapy techique of the behaviorists, gets some of the best results of any.
It's method is small changes, but keep pushing for the goal.

Just my thoughts on this at 4:50am.  Thanks for your time.
Mykel


 -- SPEED 1.20 [NR]: Sperm is the only human cell with self-propulsion.
                              
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