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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 10:43:02 -0500
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Partial answers to a couple of Kerry's questions.
              25 Jan 1993 09:52:00 EST from <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>

Dan:

Thanks for your comment, especially concerning "Israel."  However,
in reading the minor prophets, I have to wonder.  Many times it
mentions that God will gather the nations and His people *in*
Israel, which passages are surrounded by *geographical* references.

I find it difficult to understand the reading of " British Israelism "
from a Biblical perspective .

Could you supply some Biblical references to support your interpretation ?

This is not meant to be a challenge.  I am genuinely concerned with
interpreting these passages accurately .  I feel that much depends
on it , though at present the feeling is still unclear as to its
meaning .  Does it sound odd to say that I think God is trying to
tell me something ?  Arrogant , perhaps , in that I feel most
unworthy of any such knowledge , the lowest of the servants of the
Kingdom of God .  Yet something inward is going on , and I * know *
beyond knowledge that God is laboring with me on these passages to
some end .

Thanks ,

Love INC ,
           -- Kerry
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:13:03 EST
From:         "PHILLIP A. HALIBURTON" <C$I@FCCJ.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Prayer Request

DEAR LORD,

          WE JUST LIFT UP TO YOU MADGE MCBURNEY.  AND THAT YOU WOULD DO YOUR
WILL IN HER LIFE WHERE HER MOTHER IS CONCERNED. AMEN


I WOULD ALSO LIKE FOR EVERYONE TO ME PRAY FOR ME BECAUSE OF THE PLACE WHERE
I AM WORKING RIGHT NOW.  I DON'T LIKE THE JOB AT ALL AND I AM TRYING TO FIND
ANOTHER JOB.  I JUST ASK THAT YOU ALL WOULD PRAY THAT HIS WILL WOULD BE DONE
WHERE MY JOB IS CONCERNED.


                                YOUR BROTHER IN CHRIST,

                                     PHILLIP A. HALIBURTON
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:04:00 EST
Reply-To:     The Vampyre Jaws <WILDER@GUVAX.BITNET>
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was VAMPYRES@GUVM
From:         The Vampyre Jaws <WILDER@GUVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Vampire: The Masquerade

For those of you who play Vampire: The Masqerade, there is a new
source book out:

Clanbook: Brujah

This book covers all you need to know about the Brujah.  History,
traditions, secrets, powers, origins, etc...


Also, due out in November is:

Who's Who Among Vampires: The Children of the Inquisition

This book will cover the"lore of the Elder Vampires."


The Vampyre Jaws
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 10:50:00 EST
From:         Dan Harling <harling@ROADRUNNER.PICTEL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Three Short Notes

> Date: 22 Jan 1993 18:29:57 -0500
> From: Dr Nancy's Sweetie <kilroy@GBORO.ROWAN.EDU>
> Subject: Three Short Notes
> To: Multiple recipients of list CHRISTIA <CHRISTIA@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>
>
> Scott Weberg writes:
>
> With all this talk about obeying the Ten Commandments, I wonder how many
> Christia participants make any effort at keeping the Fourth Commandment,
> which orders abstaining from work on Saturday...

I hope this tangent is not taken as nit-picking, but all the
Commandment has to say about the Sabbath is to "keep it holy".  Only
Hebrew tradition gives specifics as to what one cannot do on the
Sabbath: for example, one cannot spit on the ground, as that might
raise some dust, and thus qualify as "plowing", which is one of the
prohibited activities on their list.

It is even questionable whether "working" (whatever that means) is
prohibited on *any* day of the week, or even whether we are required to
continue to treat Saturday as the Sabbath, rather than another day of
the week, but I will not address those questions here.  Suffice it to
say that more man-made rules exist about the Sabbath than any other
commandment in the Old Testament, but that does not mean that we must
follow them.
____________________________________________________________________________
Daniel A. Harling                        (harling@pictel.com)
PictureTel Corp.             Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of
Peabody, MA  01960                   PictureTel Corp. (so there!)
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:13:05 -0500
From:         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Judge messages, not messengers

On Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:30:24 EDT Fritz Block, Future Cave Resident said:
>Whether you think Darren Provine is hypocritical is immaterial to
>whether his points about Rush Limbaugh are valid.  Why reject the
>message just because you don't like the messenger?  I'm glad that not
>everybody judges the message of the Gospel that way; I don't feel that
>most of us measure up as messengers very well at all.

I agree. I know my posts get flamed quite often. That's okay, not everyone
is conservative or a dittohead. I read, and if I see it's a flame and not
a discussion, DEL, and it's over. I'm not upset, I've not fanned the fire,
and I feel good.

>Fellow believers, if you feel that someone should be admonished for non-
>Christian behavior, please do it in private, OK?  And perhaps the
>exclamation points could be left on the keyboard.

That's one of the reasons we came out with CONCHR-L. Still, we *ALL* need
to be a bit more civil from time to time. Dan and kilroy are a bit "rough"
from time to time, but we all can be.... Can't we?

Maks
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:46:09 MST
From:         Usenet/Netnews Moderator <FOCMCB@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: KJV

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
>From: cnews@umr.edu (UMR Usenet News Post)
>Subject: Re:      Re: KJV
>Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla, Rolla, MO
>Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:46:04 GMT

Theodore Penn <U59919@UICVM.BITNET> writes:
>One translation to _DEFINITELY_ stay away from is the 'new world
translation'.
>This is a translation done by the mormons and they re-write the scriptures
to
>the way they want them to read, so that it looks like the mormons are right.

Oops, the "New World" translation is done by the Jehovah's Witnesses.
The Reorganized Church of Latter Day Saints now has the copyright on
Joseph Smith's "Inspired Version" which is a rewrite of the Authorized/
King James Version.  Smith's "Inspired Version" includes prophecies
about himself, among various other additions and deletions.

Scott Hayes
scotth@cs.umr.edu
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 06:16:48 -0500
From:         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: centering prayer/prayer of silence/contemplation, etc.

Yes, this has happened to me. Mostly I find it happens when I simply
don't know what to pray for or am depressed or oppressed about something.
I'll start praying and I'll find it just like the scripture that we
pray in "groans". Sometimes that's exactly what it is, I groan inside
searching for the words, even the right thing to pray for, because
I simply just don't know. Like in the case where the young man was hit
by the log truck. Sure we pray for the family, peace, things like that,
but we can't begin to fathom the loss they faced. There is a peace that
someone goes to God, but before his time? So, we groan, we commune with
God and ask for His wisdom.

Also, at times like this, I'll pray in tongues. This is a bit more of
a conscience event, or I "feel" that I am more in control than when I
"groan". I don't know what I'm praying about in tongues either, but I
feel that perhaps my spirit does. In groaning, I don't think even my
spirit knows what to pray for.

Hope that helped....

Your brother,
Maks.
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 09:17:00 MST
From:         Usenet/Netnews Moderator <FOCMCB@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      what going on here??

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
>From: "(Peter Ribi)" <pribi@ntb.ch>
>Subject: what going on here??
>Organization: Neu-Technikum Buchs, Switzerland
>Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 13:16 MST


Hello everybody!

Can anyone explainme, what's the topic here?

bye, Peter
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:41:59 CST
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      GO FOR IT!!! (Yea, Scott!!!)

Remember that the Lord may have called you and your wife into this area
of ministry due to the fact that HE feels you'd be good with that age!!!
My Dad's 45, but has been in the music ministry since age 12, and the
youth ministry since age 20(?)  Daddy loves this kind of stuff, and is
getting ready to send out parental consent forms for a trip to ...
CENTRIFUGE!  If the Lord makes a way for me to sponsor-I'm "legal",
then I'll have to schedule this here at school with my music professors.
My Mom and Dad have a knack for this, and the rewards are TRULY GREAT.
keep asking HIM to guide, and "He will direct your paths."
I will be prayin' for you, Scott.
----------
Dear Jesus,
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!! Another Christian dude and his wife
are gonna try to tackle the 12-17 age bracket.  Whew...I ask that you be
there to guide Scott and his wife, give them Your peace and the assurance
that this is what you would have them do-BUT, only if it's Your will.
Thanks so much for the Youth ministry at Richburg...we've come a long
way in 2 and a half years, and I think we've got lots to do yet.  Maybe
with your guidance, Scott's church youth program will grow as rapidly.
I ask that you touch hearts and lives through this ministry, and give
these kids insight so they'll know that there's only one way to go...
Your way.
We praise your name, Lord, and we ask humbly, that this request be
granted, so Scott et al... may bring Glory to You.
Theresa

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 08:45:59 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Praying in tongues (was Re: centering prayer...)

Keith, I used to think like you before I received the gift of tongues. In my
case it was pure envy.

Shalom,
Memo.
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:42:21 -0500
From:         "N. L. Tinkham" <nlt@GBORO.ROWAN.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Mormon/LDS

Michael Kline posted a list of differences between LDS doctrine and
mainstream Christian doctrine.  One entry in the list was the following:

> CONCERNING SALVATION:
>  Mormons believe:               Christians believe:
>   "Purgatorial"; 3 celestial     Eternal heaven or hell; no
>    kingdoms, almost               purgatory, not
>    universalistic                 universalistic
>
> From "CULT WATCH - What You Need to Know About Spiritual Deception"
> by John Ankerberg and John Seldon. pp 20-21.

Ankerberg and Seldon have overgeneralized here in describing the
Christian position.  Both purgatory and universal salvation are points
on which Christians disagree.  Large numbers of Christians (including
most Roman Catholics and some Anglicans) expect purgatory after death;
many other Christians (most Protestants) do not.  Similarly, the belief
that Christ's death will, in the end, save all people has been held by
a small but not insignificant minority of Christians during the
church's history; I understand Gregory of Nyssa and Julian of Norwich
to have held this belief, for example.  Purgatory and univeralism both
fall within the range of orthodox, historic Christian beliefs; these
cannot be used to distinguish "true" Christians from "false" ones.
_____________________________________________________________________________

                                              Nancy Tinkham
                                              nlt@gboro.rowan.edu
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:25:34 MST
From:         Usenet/Netnews Moderator <FOCMCB@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Evolution and other things

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
>From: nhn@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Nicholas Hawthorn)
>Subject: Re: Evolution and other things
>Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.
>Date: 26 Jan 1993 10:35:47 +0000 (GMT)


Gareth McCaughan writes:
>                                             As far as *practical*
> Christian life is concerned evolution is a pretty boring question.


I think that even if belief in evolution does little harm to a Christian it
is a great comfort to unbelievers.  It means that the Earth is exceedingly
old
and that the Flood is a myth, and makes it easy to believe that the return
of the Lord Jesus Christ is also nonsense.  If one believes that the Earth
was created directly by God about 6000 years ago, and that all men were
destroyed by the Flood about 4000 years ago, the imminent return of Christ
starts to seem quite believable.

(2 Peter 3 is relevant here).

Communism and Humanism are two philosophies built on evolution.  Neither of
them could be built on the Bible's account of creation.

I think that belief in evolution has very harmful effects, on individuals
(especially on unbelievers, perhaps on Christians as well) and on whole
societies.  I think the effects are long term rather than immediate and
practical.

My own conviction (fairly obvious by now) is that evolution (meaning macro-
evolution) is false and that the Earth is about 6000 years old.  It's not
something I discuss much, mainly because of lack of courage, and also lack
of knowledge.


Nick Hawthorn
nhn@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 08:52:38 -0500
From:         Eric James Ewanco <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Gays in the Military?

The White House comment line 202/456-1111 as it turns out.  It's open 9
to 5.  456-1414 is the White House switchboard.  Maybe you can get a
hold of President Clinton.  Anyone with a Polish accent who can sound
like the Pope? :-)

Repeating Maks' message, the Capitol number is 202/224-3121.

Call and express your opposition to the lifting of the gay ban.

Eric
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 08:08:24 CST
From:         Yvette Traylor <YST1@DCCCDBIT.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Defending Ourselves

Marissa (stuff deleted)...says
>   I know that our tendency is to instinctively fight back.  I've done that bef
> re.  But I also know from personal experience that submitting sometimes is the
> safer course.
>
>    Any other ideas?  These are my own opinions, not hard facts.
>
I am so glad this conversation is going on, because I never gave it
any serious thought as to what I would do in a situation like this.
But, now that I have thought it over this is what I 'Think' I would
do.
1.) Remain Calm
2.) Pray that the evil spirits aflicting this person be bound in the
name of Jesus. (out loud that is)
3.) Pray for this persons salvation. (out loud)
4.) Ask the Lord to help this person and me. (out loud)
5.) Praise God in this person presence for he is worthy. (out loud)

Now if I were gagged, I would continue to Pray, because I know
what prayer can do.

Yvette
"Do something good for someone today, even if it is leaving them alone."
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 13:04:03 -0500
From:         carol nemec <YA67@MUSIC.FERRIS.EDU>
Subject:      Re: March for Life, etc.

Marissa...

I remember reading "A Modest Proposal" in high school.  One of the
few things that I remember!  Do they still have high school students
reading it?

Marty...

Thanks for your input on the March.  The college students I was
with commented that it was great to know there are so many other
pro-life people.  They feel alone on a liberal campus.  We were
trying to take a picture of our group and our banner in front of the
Capital and were told we could not protest there.  Another group
formed a circle to pray...no banners or anything...and were also
told to leave.  I guess it's something about forming a group.
The cross-section of Americans was amazing.  I'm sure that some
observers must have been struck by the fact that so many could
demonstrate so peacefully.

Carol Nemec
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:06:34 -0500
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From:         Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Last night's Rush Limbaugh Show

Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
Phone: 588-6757

I watched part of Rush's show last night.  I was annoyed by what i read
of what he said here, but last night i was downright offended by almost
everything he said.  I started watching when he was talking about Animal
Rights activists and how ridiculous they are.  He made a major crack against
k.d. lang that i didn't appreciate, followed by a hearty congratulations
to Aretha Franklin for wearing a fur despite the comments she's gotten
from these "evil" animal rights activists.  He said something like "see
what she's wearing?  That's a dead animal!" and proceeded to say something
to the effect that she was now in their good graces for wearing a dead
animal despite what the activists said.  The crowd cheered and laughed
for the wonderful acheivement of wearing dead animal skin to spite activists.
First of all, i don't think the animal rights activists should have told
Aretha Franklin what to wear and what not to wear.  I also don't think
she wore the fur on stage to spite anyone, but because she liked it.
What sickened me was that Rush and the crowd were so joyous that she was
wearing, in his words "a dead animal".  What's so wonderful about that?
I watched the rest of the show because i plan on that being the only
Rush Limbaugh show i ever see in my life.  He continued to bash "liberals"
for whatever reason during the entire show.  I saw no real reasoning in
anything he said, just blind crude attacks on the people he was talking
about, calling names, etc.  What made it even worse was the crowd that
was laughing and cheering at almost everything he said.  This man is
not a comedian.  I find it almost scary that a show like this is not
only on the air, but that people actually listen and agree with what
he says.  Fortunately (to me), this is obviously not the majority in
America.

I will have to admit that he did make one good point in his show, however.
He said that "they" say that we shouldn't look at races, we should look
at people, but "they" look at a person's race rather than their ability
when picking people for jobs.  I have to agree that it seems that that
is true, and something that has bothered me for some time.  But after
all his attacks (all unwarranted attacks, i might add), this one good
point (made in a vicious manner) does not redeem the show for me at all.
To those of you who like him, why do you like him?  Do you enjoy bashing
liberals on a nightly basis with him?

I have many more comments about what happened on the show last night, but
they would take too long and this is long enough.
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:46:00 EST
From:         "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
Subject: Re: Ten commandments.

Thanks, I'd been looking for that particular passage and had not fuond it.
Yup, all foods are okay to eat, but some are gross, Chicken Ripple ice
cream, for example.

I wanna go home and have an Anchor Steam.  Me want Anchor Steam, chug chug
chug chug, like a steam locomotive, chug chug.

Of course, I never chug my beer, I take at least thirty seconds to drink a
goassful, any less is gauche.

See ya, Well, actually I can't see ya, but I still use visual analogies in
my speech, so there!

Dan
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:47:56 MST
From:         Usenet/Netnews Moderator <FOCMCB@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Last night's Rush Limbaugh Show

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
>From: jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante)
>Subject: Re: Last night's Rush Limbaugh Show
>Organization: The Ohio State University
>Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 01:20:36 GMT

In article <01GTS5MW3IG299DJSS@asu.edu> "jones, mark" <JMJONES@UGA.BITNET>
writes:
>In response to Angela Zimmerman on Rush:
>This brings me to a point I have been wondering about. I actually
>know very little about Rush. Does he make any profession of faith
>in Christ? I attended a Full Gospel Businessmen's Advance last weekend

  1. He said on his radio show a few weeks ago "I am a Christian."
     I don't know what that means to him. He did not elaborate.
  2. In his book, _The Way Things Ought To Be_, as well as on his
     radio show (I don't watch the TV show) he holds a view of morality
     that is consistent with christian teaching -- abortion is wrong,
     life is a gift of God to be enjoyed, people ARE special
     (really, some scholars accuse Christians of 'speciesism' by holding
      that people are more important than animals), and morality cannot
     be individually determined -- there is right and wrong. Sorta like
     what people USED to be like. That is, respecting Christian teaching
     even if not they themselves claimed to be a Christian.
  3. Shoul.d one pray for Mr. Limbaugh's spiritual state? Well, like anyone
     else, he's an object of God's wrath in the natural state. So if you
     like him, I suppose you might also want to pray for him.




>and one of the guest speakers mentioned that we should pray for Rush
>to be saved and filled with the Holy Spirit. Anyone know where ol'
>Rush stands?
>
>I liked Rush better when it was just the name of Geddy Lee's band.
>Anyways.......Mark
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 12:30:00 -0500
From:         "Carl A. Lahetta" <U952020@RUTADMIN.BITNET>
Subject:      Defending Ourselves - The Other Cheek

   I would like one of the theologians to enlighten us on the meaning
and context of the "other cheek".  I heard a teaching on this and if my
recollection is correct it has to do with someone insulting you.  There was
a Jewish custom where someone would strike your cheek for a certain reason.
Most people wrongly interpret this passage.  One has to take into consideration
the culture and traditions of the Jews when reading the Bible.  If someone
could check the accuracy of this it could help.

Carl---+
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