HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kati@glnserv.UUCP (Lady Dragon)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Current Batch of Uniforms
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 08:22:24 CDT
Organization: Vermi-net, Houston, Tx. 77098

mwilson@orl.mmc.com (Mark Wilson) writes:

> Is it just me? Is there someone else out there who thinks that the current
> (BSA) uniform shorts are cut too short? I've had complaints from mothers and
> boys in my troop. It's hard to encourage complete uniforms when a part of it
> makes people uncomfortable.
You might try writing multiple letters to the people in charge. They may
not realize that a change is needed, since they don't wear the uniforms.

>
> While we're at it. What ever happened to the garters for the knee socks. It
> seems that they still can't make the socks so they can stay up on their own.
> Even if they wanted to do away with the flashes, they could have kept the
> garters and do away with the sock tug of war (the socks always win).
Maybe one of your moms (or each one) could make some garters out of
elastic bought from a sewing store. Since the sock top would be folded
over the elastic, it wouldn't show except that your troop's socks would
mysteriously stay up.
(PS: the Girl Scout uniform still includes garters and flashes.)

>
> PS: The long pants are not an option for a summer (March to November) in
> the heart of Florida with 80-90 degree days and 90-100 percent humidity.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mark Wilson
> Eagle Class of 1974
> SM, Troop 565, Deltona, FL
>



* * email address: nuchat!xcluud!glnserv!kati * Houston, Texas, USA, Earth * *




Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: Auto-trol Technology Corporation -- Denver, Colorado
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:44:37 GMT

cosc177z@rosie.uh.edu (92H02966) writes:
: 
: I'm very well aware that a majority of pedophiles are not homosexuals but
: when my child is 16 they are not a child but not an adult.  Since I believe 
: that homosexuality is partially environment and since I wish to influence my
: children to be straight, I feel uncomfortable for them to be around homosexuals.

Just because you believe something doesn't make it true. Why can't you believe
us when we keep telling you that we were *NOT* influenced to be gay? In fact,
just the opposite is true - society *HEAVILY* influences us to be straight.
: 
: Why?  Because when I was young, I *was* hit on by the homosexual who headed up
: our door to door sales team.  

But you did not turn out to be gay? But if he had so much influence, why didn't
you? Could it be <gasp> that you were *BORN* straight...

He *did* get into a relationship with one of my
: friends (who was at the ripe old age of 14).  

and that your friend was *BORN* gay?  Nah, it must have been that that homosexual
somehow wielded his influence over your friend but not you. 

I do want grandchildren and I
: feel that the straight lifestyle will result in a happier life for my children
: as well.  If they turn out to be gay, I won't try to reprogram then or stop
: loving them but I feel that the environment in which they are raised can have an
: effect on their orientation.  Is it 10%, 20%, 50%?  I don't know.
: 
What utter bullshit - can't you even see the contradiction in your own story?

One more time for the eternally dense: I know hundreds of Lesbians and gay men.
Almost all of them say that they have been homosexual as long as they can 
remember. Speaking for myself, the first time I heard that there were such 
things as Lesbians, I knew I was one. NO ONE EVER INFLUENCED ME TO BE A LESBIAN.
Quite the opposite - *EVERYBODY* and *EVERYTHING* tried to influence me to be 
straight. How dare you homophobic bigots sit there and condescendlingly deny 
the truth of our lives?


Kathy
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2998 alt.discrimination:4299 alt.politics.homosexuality:5890
From: omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu (The God-Bitch Emperor of Snuggle Bunnies)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 11 Sep 92 06:43:57 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UB

oh can we keep the cascades to a minimum???
I mean I'd like to read what you're responding to but when you have
include lines from the past 5,000,000,000,000 articles peopm{e start
to get annoyed.

-Eftsne again
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 16:16:36 GMT

In article <RLK.92Sep4164233@underprize.think.com> rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.204432.5451@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>
>   This thing about having or not a choice is not so simple.  Some
>   people might feel that they have no choice but to take their children
>   out from the troop.  Then, neither ine will have a choice.  This is
>   the same in a lot of other cases: I have a choice of buying or not a
>   house, however, I do not have the money. Ergo: I don't really have a
>   choice.  The same here: If some parent doees not want hie/her
>   children to be near an homosexual leader (being this a good or bad
>   thing to do), he or she will not have a choice but to take his/her
>   children from the troop.
>
>   The only real choice here is: Do I want my children under the
>   leadership of an homosexual?
>
>   If the answer is yes or I do not care, there is a choice.  If the
>   answer is no, there is no choice.
>
>Does your argument change materially if you substitute "Jew" or "black"
>or "liberal" for "homosexual"?  If so in any of these cases, why?

Yes, I think it does, although it would change in a different way in 
each case, even if the results are the same.
There is a different perception from society about each one of these groups,
and that makes the difference. It is not the same reason why society at large
condemns discrimination of Jews or Blacks or Women, even if these different
perceptions result in the same effect.
It is clear, at least for me, that there is no agreement on what "homosexuality"means for most people on both sides of this debate.
So, they are not talking the same language.
For some, it is a behavioral problem. For others, being gay is just having
sex with another man. For others, being gay is part of their self. And, so
forth. 
That is why we cannot equate different segregated groups. Because they are not
segregated based on the same reason, even if the effect is the same.



>--
>ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
>bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
>harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116
>
>Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write league@prep.ai.mit.edu

AAP

Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Reply-To: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 6 Sep 92 06:19:33 GMT

Carl M. Kadie ponders:
> I question how up front they have been. When Bank of America asked
> them point blank if they excluded gay boys, their reply was apparently
> so vague that B of A thought the answer was no.

This has come up before with respect to the United Way.  San Francisco
Chronicle, East Bay Edition, Thursday 25 July 1991, page A17:

	Quentin Alexander, director of the Mount Diablo Council,
	condemned the cancellation of the grant and said the
	United Way has no grounds for protesting Scout financing
	or policies.

	He acknowledged that each Boy Scout council signs an
	agreement when it accepts United Way money that says it
	will not discriminate against gays and other minorities.

	In that agreement, however, is an amendment that says any
	such pact cannot override "certain unique policies and
	procedures" of the Scouts, Alexander said.  One such
	policy, he said, is barring gays as Scouts and scout
	masters [sic].

Now, my opinion is this policy is wrong and mistaken.  I say this as
an Eagle Scout, a national Scout camp staff member, and an active
Scout and Scouter for over ten years.

But the facts of whether the Scouts concealed or lied about the policy
are clear: they did not.

It's unlikely the matter was any different with respect to B of A.

-- Jon

--
Jon Krueger  jpk@ingres.com  
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: rzakon@mitre.org (Robert H Zakon)
Subject: Troops near the Reston, VA area?
Reply-To: rzakon@mitre.org (Robert H Zakon)
Organization: Mitre
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:55:21 GMT


What BSA troops are closest to the Reston, VA area?

Robert H'obbes' Zakon, rzakon@mitre.org, hobbes@hobbes.cwru.edu
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:3042 chi.general:1109 alt.atheism:17088 alt.politics.homosexuality:5925 alt.discrimination:4343
From: awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.discrimination
Subject: Net.Citizen.Arrest Of Net.Citizen Attempted
Date: 12 Sep 92 19:48:48 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: NMSU Computer Science

I'm amused.

Someone, who for sake of privacy shall go unnamed, has placed me under
"net.citizen.arrest."  What does this mean?  I'm not sure.  I don't
know what newsgroup this individual reads my posts on, as a number of
them have been crossposted like crazy.

This is what I've been accused of:

	"excessive flamage."

The stuff that gets to rec.scouting, if people think it is flamage,
that is unfortunate.  While at times I get emotional about things
(suicide of teen-agers is not some neutral political/ethical topic for
me, you'll just have to be forgiving on that count), I rarely flame.
Incite, maybe, but nothing is uncalculated, insulting for insulting's
sake.

My friend writes to me:
	
	"You have repeatedly posted to a whole slew of newsgroups in 
	an excessively inceneratory manner,...."

I have tried to make a conscious effort lately to delete unrelated
newsgroups from the newsgroup line.  Occasionally I mess up, and for
that I apologize.  I shall try even harder in the future to eliminate
unnecessary newsgroups.

	"...rather than following up by mail to an individual person
	or people as appropriate."

I would do this, if it were only one or two people I disagreed with.
But it appears that many people hold views I oppose and they aren't
afraid of posting these views.  Why should I be bullied out of
self-expression?

	"I hereby order you to cease and desist, and to follow up all
	future discussions on this topic either by email, or in
	alt.flame where it belongs."

Whereas, your "order" is unwarranted, and whereas, I do not engage
myself in flaming, I shall not "cease and desist."  I shall merely be
more careful about newsgroup lines, making sure that articles go to
where they belong.

	"Your current flame rampage..."

NOT.

	"...is costing hundreds of sysops and companies hundreds
	of dollars in mail/dialup/network fees so that you can
	blather on incoherently about this topic."

Wow.  Loaded allegations there, friend.

1. Anyone know how much one posting costs one company?

2. Don't you think that if you read a newsgroup, you should expect
that any and everything related to that newsgroup will be discussed?

3. To you, I may "blather incoherently."  To others, those who respond
to what I have to say in an intelligent manner, I obviously make some
kind of sense.

--
Andrew Werling    awerling@nmsu.edu    yip@acca.nmsu.edu
"Jesus is coming, look busy."
          --from a button I bought in an Albuquerque bookstore.
From: dlm@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Deborah Maraziti (aka Spacee))
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Girls Are Great,' too
Date: 14 Sep 92 00:57:17 GMT
Organization: Institute for Astronomy, Hawaii

In article <281.2AB190FE@gisatl.fidonet.org> deitch@gisatl.fidonet.org (David Deitch) writes:
>
>     It is part of "Girls Are Great," a program launched by the Northwest Georgia Girl Scout Council two years ago to reach economically disadvantaged and handicapped girls.
>     The program, which includes traditional Scouting activities along with self-development and mentoring, reaches about 7,200 girls and young women in primarily low-income neighborhoods, officials said.
>
Do you know if this program introduces these girls into established troops or
do they form new troops of their own?



--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Spacee                            ~     I'm conducting a search for a
dlm@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu        ~     planet made of chocolate.
(astronomer in lace)              ~     Funding is hard to come by...
From: daveh@ka3uzr.uucp (Dave Hultberg)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Allegewi Lodge #455
Keywords: What ever happened to Lodge 455
Date: 9 Sep 92 16:41:02 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hams Do It With High Frequency

Back in the 60s I received an Allegewi Lodge #455 OALF in return for one 
of my #43 flaps.  Does anyone know the council name and number associated 
with this lodge?  Whatever became of this council? Lodge?
YIS, Dave Hultberg

Dave Hultberg, Cubmaster Pack 196, Keystone Area Council, Eagle Scout '67
Brotherhood member Susquehannock Lodge XI \/\/ \/\/ \/\/, ASTA 1781 (CSPs)
Twisted Pair: 717-766-3553  Fidonet: 1:270/101.28  UUCP: daveh@ka3uzr.UUCP
or compnect!frackit!ka3uzr!daveh@psuvax1  Packet: KA3UZR @ K3WKK.PA.USA.NA
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2916 alt.discrimination:4198 alt.atheism:16750 alt.politics.homosexuality:5780
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 8 Sep 92 17:01:12 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.

In article <pitvvfg@zola.esd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
>In article <1992Sep8.032651.27783@cs.yale.edu>, rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:
>|> I.e. Christians who converted from other religions are often 
>|> thankful to those who attempted to convert them. Therefore, from 
>|> THEIR perspective, although they didn't want it at the time, 
>|> NOW they can see that the people who tried were doing them a 
>|> behavior. You see, according to this view, atheists and 
>|> homosexuals are deluded by their sin and need help.
>So, how would you feel about Christians passing laws to get
>Atheists banned from jobs and housing until they convert?
>I know it would be perfectly natural behaviour for a Vogon,
>but how about for a human being?

Obviously, Eric would believe that it would be wrong behavior; just not that
it's wrong because of the Golden Rule.  Eric's not saying it'd not be wrong
_at_all_, just disagreeing with one particular reason.
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: David.B.Haseman@dartmouth.edu (David B. Haseman)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: BSA Advancement question
Date: 4 Sep 92 20:58:13 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In article <1992Aug28.225329.9914@adobe.com>
choffman@adobe.com (Charles Hoffman) writes:

> I discovered that his troop allows the boys to work on all three ranks at the same time.  Indeed this scout was going to go from the Scout (is this a rank?  -- 
Yes, and in the handbook there is a badge for "member/scout"
  When you look at the requirements for advancement from scout to 1st
class, you will see that there are requirements for attendence at troop
activities other than the regularly scheduled meetings.  These
accumulate throughout advancement.  
  So in answer to your first concern, the scouts are working on
multiple rank requirements simultaneously.  I allow my scouts to tie
all the required knots at one time if they choose to.  This is helpful
in our troop setting where all the boys are working on a project or
activity at the same time (in the case in mind, it was a monkey bridge
where there were multiple lashings tied and retied in addition to clove
hitches and others).
  I require the boys to sew on their rank badges within a reasonable
time after receiving it or they get extra things to do.  
  I have had one scout in two years get two rank awards at the same
Court of Honor - he was eager and worked hard to accomplish all the
tasks (and yes there were two scoutmaster's conferences).  It happened
over the summer when I couldn't get the parents together for an court
of honor even though I could get enough committee members together for
a Board of Review.

Regards,

David B. Haseman 
Scoutmaster, Troop 45 
Hanover New Hampshire
Sunapee District
Daniel Webster Council - BSA
From: bar
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re:Network WHERE IS THE FUN
Date: 8 Sep 92 02:40:33 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lack thereof

In article <1992Sep7.162221.2648@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>I made this point when rec.scouting first started, and I'll state it
>again for the benefit of the newcomers.  
>My biggest objection to
>both these places is that ther target audience, the 14.000-17.997 age
>group, are boys who should be working during school vacation instead
>of trying to live the high adventure life.  As part of teaching boys
>positive values and responsibility, BSA should be encouraging boys in
>this age group to WORK, and NOT provide them with super-vacation
>alternatives.

Actually, I rather enjoyed my Philmont trip. My Philmont trek lasted
2.5 weeks, out of a 14 week summer, so I was able to work the rest
of the summer as a swimming instructor and a theatre techie..

One of the best ways I can think of to encourage both is to have the
boys in the troop work to pay for their High Adventure trek. They get
some of Stan's favorite values, and get to participate in an opportunity
that many disadvantaged/plain old not rich Scouts would never otherwise
get to do..  How many non-Scouts do you know that went on a two-week
backpacking trek through the Rockies? 

Philmont is also good for things, like learning to work together, carrying
the crew gear as a group.. those of you with hte Philmont experience know
what I'm typing about.

Anyway, it IS possible to work most of the summer vacation away, and 
still attend a high-adventure base.

>The other problem is that this mentality of giving the children
>everything is pervasive everywhere.

Don't "give" it to them. If you're bound and determined to give your 
children only food, clothing and shelter, then have the scouts work
to earn money for the trip. My Explorer Post, for example, distributed
flyers for the city, and managed to pull in quite a few $$$ toward
Philmont. Helped pay for food on the trip there, too.

>[I was the only parent to object for reasons of cost (i.e., even if we have
>the money, are our children really "entitled" to this) and
>priorities (i.e., they should be working during the summer).
>they'll have plenty of time to work; not all teenagers can get
>summer jobs; it's really a great value for the money; nobody is
>required to go). 

Boy, I'd hate to be one of your children.....

On what the original post was about: (ie - how to make regular campouts
fun, as opposed to high adventure)

You can't make people enjoy themselves. I always seemed to have fun
on a boring, regular campout, just mucking about in the woods, 
canoeing on one of southern Missouri's rivers, hiking, etc. Go
figure. I guess you shouldn't spoil a troop with too many high
adventure treks. More than one a year needs a good look at. If
your troop goes on three or more a year - send me the extra $$$, I
need them!   :-)

Tom Cronin
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2866 alt.politics.homosexuality:5731
From: mycroft@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Charles Hannum)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Crossposting articles with rec.scouting (was Re: BofA and UW ...)
Date: 7 Sep 92 16:40:23 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1992Sep7.015058.5163@morrow.stanford.edu>
farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf) writes:
>
> In article <1992Sep6.161704.7350@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>
> mycroft@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Charles Hannum) writes:
>>
>> rec.scouting != BSA
>>
>> If you want to discuss BSA-related issues, perhaps a rec.scouting.bsa
>> group is appropriate.
>
> Gee, you had me fooled.  So if the BSA doesn't fit into rec.scouting,
> what does?  Famous scouts in the past?  My favorite is Sacajaweea for
> her outstanding work with the Lewis and Clark expedition.  I believe
> she was breastfeeding an infant while she was scouting.

You completely misunderstood my statement.  rec.scouting is not for the
discussion of BSA politics, and it is obviously not of interest to many
of the readers.  If you want to discuss BSA politics, you should find
(or create) a more appropriate forum.


-- 
 \   Charles Hannum, mycroft@ai.mit.edu
 /\  White heterosexual atheist male (WHAM) pride!
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Originator: glp@merlin
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 21:27:34 GMT


In article <hill.715462676@galena12>, hill@rtsg.mot.com (Karen Hill) writes:

|> Does being homosexual exclude one from obeying the rules and adhering to
|> the standards of the organization to which they have chosen to belong?

No, and there is nothing to prevent gay men and boys from
being "morally straight". 

|> If it's nobody's business, then why is there such a huge gay/lesbian movement
|> and why is there a gay rights agenda and why are their "rights" to behave as
|> they please being forced on society. If it's nobody's business, then 
|> it should not even be an issue. 

No, someone else makes it *their* business to discriminate
against me because of who I fall in love with.  I, and
others like me, work to protect ourselves from what we
and many others see as an unwanted intrusion into our
lives and an unreasonable and unwarranted exclusion
from parts of society including but not limited to
employment and housing.

|> Certainly true. Any behavior can be learned or unlearned. Homosexuality is
|> a behavior and can be unlearned as well as learned. 

Homosexuality is not a "behavior", it is an orientation.
An orientation as real and as unchangeable as heterosexuality.

|> Let us not forget that what the gay/lesbian movement is asking is for
|> rights based on their behavior and not their humanity.

Why then are celibate gays and lesbians denied their rights as
citizens?  This "behavior" stuff is a smokescreen.  

So where do rights based on a choice of religious practice fit
in?  That is clearly a "behavior", yet I'm sure that you think
laws forbidding religious oppression are OK.

-- 
Greg Parkinson                  Phone: 212-657-7814  Fax: 212-825-8607
Citibank,111 Wall Street        E-Mail: glp@fig.citib.com
New York, New York  10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting