HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jimd@psg.com (Jim Dorman)
Subject: Re: Airfare to Vegas
Organization: Pacific Systems Group, Portland Oregon US
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 05:05:33 GMT

In <BzMzr1.E7r@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> amasss@vet.purdue.edu (Sandra Amass) writes:

> If you are flting to Vegas on Continental, you might
> want to call the airline to see if the cost of your
> airfare has been reduced. Even if you have already paid
> for the tickets you can get the reduced rate and you will
> be refunded the difference. It is worth the call.
> Our tickets went from $400 to $257. Just wanted to
> let ya know. If you went through Eager Travel
> they will take care of it for you if you notify them.

Just a note for future flying:  Eager does a good job with airfar, but I
also found good deals (and more flights) by using AAA.  Not to slam Eager,
but let's face it, I'm out for CHEAP here.  I got RT on United for $205 
from Portland, OR.

And as for Fargo travel from the northwest, stay tuned after Vegas for the
big announcement.


Jim the Juggler, a.k.a.:  jimd@m2xenix.psg.com
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
From: mohit@apollo.psrc.ncsu.edu (mohit bhatnagar)
Subject: juggling clubs : enough ! enough!
Originator: mohit@vayu.psrc.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: mohit@apollo.psrc.ncsu.edu (mohit bhatnagar)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 05:23:14 GMT


Greg Alt in article#3336 writes

*******

If someone has the time and energy, all of this club info should be
put in a big list and sorted by state (and country?).  It could be
added to the archives and mentioned in the faq. 

*******

i am glad at least someone else also feel that this info about the clubs
need to be put in a proper file instead of each club sending detailed
albeit separate info about their activities.

alas! one of my articles never got,posted in which i had suggested the
same thing that providing info this way is a very inefficient way of
providing info (for the lack of better words ). I suggest

(1) someone update the club-meeting file at moocow
	I am willing to do if you all club  presidents/ organizers/
 /founders /empathizers send me club meeting 

*** place, time, contact persone with complete address (please include
city,state, and country) *** 

(2) if you know that the info in the file at moocow for your club
doesn't need to be modified, please do not besiege me with unnecessary info

(3) whenever there is a new club or any change, we can post it as well
as I will modify the files

i hope this will help all of us without cluttering the net

mohit

ps: my room-mates are almost on the verge of dizziness and nausea due to
my latest 3-ball tricks (I usually forgive them for being so ignorant since
there life is a hell anyway due to their non-juggler-type-personality :-)  
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
From: marko@IMD.Sterling.COM (Mark Olson)
Subject: Re: Juggling Clubs
Organization: Sterling Software, IMD
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 20:13:35 GMT
X-Md4-Signature: 7ba63f0b3c629eb52b46c0583c8abba2

In article <29DEC199213064131@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> femanrs@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (BRUCE MANNERS) writes:
>
>So... I propose that all of you folks should list your local club and 
>either a phone or E-mail Contact name. 
>
In Omaha, Nebraska (The sun 'n' fun capitol of the great midwest):

The Omaha Juggling Club
Meets every Monday from 7:30 to 9:00 p.m. at the North Side Christian
Church, 5555 Larimore, in the Gym.
net.contact marko@IMD.Sterling.COM -or- uunet!sparky!marko (Mark Olson)
-- 
Mark Olson  || marko@IMD.Sterling.COM -or- uunet!sparky!marko
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
From: weissman@pianoforte.esd.sgi.com (Terry Weissman)
Subject: Ride wanted to Las Vegas convention from Orange County
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 22:43:02 GMT


My wife Amy and I will be visiting relatives in Orange County over New
Year's.  From there, she plans to go to the Las Vegas convention,
while I (alas) must go back home to go to work.

Unfortunately, Amy's ride from Orange County to the convention fell
through.  So now, we're desperately looking for another way for her to
get there.  Transportation has already been arranged to get her back
from Las Vegas to home; we are just hoping for a one-way ride from
Orange County to Las Vegas.

She would like to leave Orange County on January 3rd, although we
might be able to be a bit flexible.  My relatives live fairly close to
Disneyland; Amy could arrange to meet you anywhere within an hour or
so of there.

If you're going to the Las Vegas convention from Orange County and
think you could manage an extra passenger, please let us know.  Send
mail to weissman@sgi.com, or (better) call Amy at (415) 940-1419.

Thanks!

- Terry Weissman		weissman@sgi.com
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
From: miguel@aclcb.purdue.edu (PHILLIP_SANMIGUEL)
Subject: Re: Juggling Clubs
Reply-To: miguel@aclcb.purdue.edu
Organization: Purdue University AIDS Center
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 20:24:45 GMT

In article <29DEC199213064131@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov>, femanrs@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (BRUCE MANNERS) writes:
>So... I propose that all of you folks should list your local club and 
>either a phone or E-mail Contact name. 

	Purdue University Juggling Club
	(See my .sig for club address)
	Meetings:  Wednesday	8:30-10 pm 	Purdue Armory
		   Saturday	1:39-4 pm	Purdue CoRec, 
						(In the North Gym behind
						th big blue curtains)

	Contact me or Sand-D  (317)743-1264
	(See my .sig for my email address)
                                    _            _
__________________________  _      (_)  ________(_)________________________
Phillip SanMiguel        _/  \     /  \  Purdue University Juggling Club
miguel@aclcb.purdue.edu (_)   \   /    |   *Juggling*Unicycling*COMBAT*
         _               |      x    _ | 1001 Stewart Center, Box 665
________(_)______________ \_ _ / \ _(_) _West_Lafayette,_Indiana__47907-1001
From: mitch@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Mitch Veenstra)
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
Subject: Re: A Wonderful Wife...
Date: 30 Dec 92 14:39:07 GMT
Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX

<chuckle> yeah, I know what you mean.  Still trying to learn 3 clubs, but
3 balls seem to hang in the air forever nowdays... /grin

<Maybe theres hope for me yet>
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
From: galt%peruvian.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Greg Alt)
Subject: Re: Juggling Clubs
Date: 30 Dec 92 19:55:31 MST
Followup-To: rec.juggling
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

If someone has the time and energy, all of this club info should be
put in a big list and sorted by state (and country?).  It could be
added to the archives and mentioned in the faq. 
----
Join the Greg Alt boycott! Put /galt/h :j in your killfile today!
----
From: allenk@ugcs.caltech.edu (Allen Knutson)
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
Subject: Re: practice - improving consistency
Date: 3 Jan 1993 15:53:40 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: torment.ugcs.caltech.edu

jkn@ohm.york.ac.uk (John Nicoll) writes:

>I get the impression that I lack consistency
>in my juggling - eg, I would still take a few tries to
>do, say, a 3-ball cascade 100 times.
>Has anyone out there any tips on practice methods to improve my
>consistency? 

What worked for me was juggling 3 as low as possible. It is impossible
to do 3 badly, low. So once you can do it low, you won't be doing it
badly. If you can, have somebody watch you do this, because your faults 
will be most evident to them.

Of course, nothing improves N balls like N+2. Good luck		Allen K.
From: steve@bcrvmpc2.vnet.ibm.com
Subject: Re: inverter and battery use
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 14:57:00 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.16 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: steve@bcrvmpc2.vnet.ibm.com
Organization: IBM, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina

In <mshulman.18.725765468@genghis.borland.com>
mshulman@genghis.borland.com (Michael Shulman) writes:  >Hello, all:  >
Stuff deleted.....
>from his batteries.  I told him that since P = I *E
>	where P is power in watts >	and I is current in amps
> and E is voltage,
> >that his running his 600W microwave for 1 hr at 110V (whichtakes approx 6A/
>H, right), that if we estimate the efficiency of his inverter at 50% (pretty
>conservative), that he should be able to run his microwave for 37 hours,
>even using only half the charge of his batteries:
>
> microwave takes:  6A/H
> inverter 50% efficiency:  12A/H
> battery (50% of total):  450A/H
> so, you can get 37 hours.
>
>But then I thought, that can't be right.  Intuitively, it seems like it
>should be closer to 3 or 4 hours.
>
>What am I doing wrong in my calculations?
>
>And what items are going to be really expensive to run off the inverter?
>
>Thanks!
>
>-ms
>mshulman@borland.com

Your intuition is right.  You just forgot to multiply the amps by the
voltage ratio to keep the power constant.  For your example:  A 600w
microwave will probably draw about 1000 w which, is about 8.3 amps at
120 v. The inverter converts 12v to 120v, and the voltage*current
(power) must be the same on both sides of the equation (minus losses),
so 8.3 amps at 120v becomes 83 amps at 12v, at about 90% efficiency for
the inverter (you should check this, as it varies wildly with
manufacturer) that is about 92.6 amps. total.  That will give about 4.8
hours for your 450 Ah.


Happy New Year, fair winds, good sailing.


Steve                   Steve Weingart        IBM Boca Raton
                        steve@bcrvmpc2.vnet.ibm.com

It's bad enough that I think these things, please don't think it's
my employer's opinion too.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com (Dillon Pyron)
Subject: Re: Coast Guard user fee repealed!
Reply-To: pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com
Organization: TI/DSEG VAX Support
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 15:58:10 GMT


In article <1992Dec28.150046.14779@progress.com>, gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras) writes:
>youngqd@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Dean Youngquist) writes:
>
>...regarding who pays for SAR
>
>>There are 4 funding options here:
>>1) Charge each boater each time he is rescued.
>>2) Charge all boaters is case of needed rescue.
>>3) Charge all US citizens in case boater (or skier) needs rescuing.
>>4) Charge all people in the world for the recreatinal saftey of some US citizens
>
>Personally I like #1.  As a practical matter I think potential users should 
>contribute enough to cover standing costs of maintaining the capability.  Actual
>users should pay cost plus.  The more actual users pay the less the potential 
>users will need to cough up.
>
>I know people out there are going to start screaming about how harsh and "unfair"
>this is.  But when it costs a couple of hundred bucks minumum to holler for the
>Coast Guard more people will check thier gas tanks and carry spare parts.  
>As someone else correctly pointed out, the marine equivalents of AAA are 
>already springing up.  Proof that the system can be made to work.
>
>In summary, I see nothing more unfair than asking the public to underwrite
>the recreational activities of individuals.   The analogy to funding of the
>ski patrol is right on the money.  
>
>>Number 2 seems to be the most workable and fair tax base.

The state of Colorado is now charging $.25 on each hunting or fishing license
to cover SAR costs.  It is actually considered a form of "insurance".  If you
have a license, you are covered.  If you don't, you pay later.
--
Dillon Pyron                      | The opinions expressed are those of the
TI/DSEG Lewisville VAX Support    | sender unless otherwise stated.
(214)462-3556 (when I'm here)     |
(214)492-4656 (when I'm home)     |"Pacts with the devil are not legally
pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com          |binding!"
PADI DM-54909                     |-Friar Tuck   _Robin Hood:The Hooded Man_
From: youngqd@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Dean Youngquist)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Coast Guard user fee repealed!
Date: 21 Dec 92 09:41:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: leela.1h43h1INN2ge
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: atlantis.cs.orst.edu

Wasn't the US Coast Guard funded for years by tax dollars from the general
fund?  This was paid mostly by non-boaters.  As a boater I'm happy that
the tax is no more but I can't say its unfair to me that I pay money
into a general fund, even if it doesn't increase the Guards' allocation.
Wouldn't it take quite a few years of taxing us boaters to repay Uncle
Sam for Coast Guard service of the last 40 years or so?  Then the Govm't
also does a lot of sea charts, at a loss I might add.

Dean
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: moinard@irisa.fr (Yves Moinard)
Subject: Re: Vendee Globe, 20 dec 
Reply-To: moinard@irisa.fr
Organization: IRISA, Rennes, France
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 16:58:59 GMT

1) Alain Gautier  (Bagages Superior)     	34 deg 43 S 21 deg 20 W
2) Bertrand de Broc (Groupe LG)         	31 deg 29 S 21 deg 51 W 
						at 150-160 nm
3) Nandor Fa (K & H Bank Matav)   		28 deg 1 S (?) 21 deg 13 W 	
						(at 80 nm from BdB)		
4) Jose Luis de Ungarte (Euskadi Europa 93) 	24 deg 21 S 25 deg 32 W 
5) Jean-Luc Van Den Heede (Gr. Sofap Helvim) 	24 deg 38 S 28 deg 52 W 
					(at 350 nm from NF and 17 nm from JLdU)
6) Philippe Poupon (Fleury-Michon)		24 deg 42 S 26 deg 30 W 
7) Alan Wynne-Thomas (Cardiff Discovery)  	24 deg 10 S 22 deg 56 W 
8) Bernard Gallay (Vuarnet Watches)      	21 deg 13 S 23 deg 11 W  
9) Jean-Yves Hasselin (Solo Nantes) 		15 deg 13 S 28 deg 30 W
10) Vittorio Malingri (Everlas- Neil Pryde) 	13 deg 03 S 29 deg 16 W 
11) Yves Parlier (Cacolac d'Aquitaine) 		 1 deg 7 N (?) 26 deg 30 W 

Note: Some errors may occur. The exact time was not precised.
There are some contradictions: the accompanying text says that J-L VdH and PP
are a few hundred meters apart!
Radio news from last friday said that YP had crossed the equator 
(or was about to do so), in fact it seems that this was too optimistic.
The (?) indicate one digit numbers, while elsewhere ``03'' e.g. is written,
thus these one digit numbers look suspect.
The distances are given in a random manner, and probably they are not very accurate.
The problem is that it is not very easy to compute them, so I made no correction...
 
Anyway here are the main points of the accompanying text:

The High Pressures are now moving east, leaving the  fleet with good winds.
Nandor Fa is still doing very well, and is expected to win again miles
against BdB, as his boat should be faster in the prevailing conditions of the forties.
J-LVdH and PP (two of the four who had to come back during the first week
and started again) expect to pass JLdU after having passed AWT, NF should be harder...
The leader AG is expected to reach the forties within 48 hours, 
and to be around the Kerguelen Islands for the end of the year.


                                          Yves Moinard
E-mail: moinard@irisa.fr                      IRISA
tel: (33)-99-84-73-13                     Campus de Beaulieu
fax: (33)-99-38-38-32                     35042 RENNES-Cedex
                                               FRANCE

From: bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:47:07 GMT
Subject: Re: Coast Guard user fee repealed!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.boats

Re. the RNLI (Royal National Lifeboat Institute), my cousin-in-law(?)
in Bude, Cornwall is something or other in the local group.  She tells
us that most of the donations go to insuring the all-volunteer crews
so that their families are taken care of if they are killed--and some
are every so often.  We send a cheque every year even though we left
England in '63.

When I was a kid, and for long after, I always went to visit the local
lifeboat, and I always appreciated just seeing those guys when I was
out sailing.  Great people.

B.S! (they always send us a tea-towel with pictures of lifeboats
present and long-gone).

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: moseley@u.washington.edu (Steve L. Moseley)
Subject: Re: Radio Checks, was Coast Guard Boating
Organization: Microbial Pathogenesis and Motorcycle Maintenance
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:57:25 GMT

In article <1h511mINN7ht@male.EBay.Sun.COM>
 jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM (Jeff Huntington) writes:
>From: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM (Jeff Huntington)
>Subject: Re: Radio Checks, was Coast Guard Boating
>Date: 21 Dec 1992 18:05:42 GMT


>I think it is a mark of an unthinking, follow like sheep, mindset to sit at a 
>traffic light with no one around waiting for it to turn green.  My wife does
>not agree.  :-)  She believes rules are rules, and should always be followed.
>I beleive it is impossible to write a rule that can tell you what is the best 
>thing to do in every situation, and so we have the option of thinking and
>deciding when the rule applies and when it doesn't.  And, the discussion goes
>on and on.  ;-)

Well, I hope I,m not the pedestrian you didn't see crossing in front of your 
car when you decide to blow the next red light. I also hope you never take 
up flying. There are lot of pilots in the ground because they took the 
option of deciding for themselves when to apply and when to ignore "rules". 
People who are too smart for the laws that govern the rest of us help make 
this world such a wonderful place :-(

__________________________________________________________________________
Steve L. Moseley                                  moseley@u.washington.edu
Microbiology SC-42                                Phone: (206) 543-2820
University of Washington                          FAX:   (206) 543-8297
Seattle, WA 98195
From: roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Coast Guard user fee repealed!
Date: 22 Dec 1992 15:42:17 GMT
Organization: New York University, School of Medicine
NNTP-Posting-Host: mchip00.med.nyu.edu

briang@atlastele.com (Brian Godfrey) writes:
> The Coast Guard originated as operators of rescue boats.

	My understanding of the situation is that the Coast Guard originated
(in the form of the "Revenue Marine") in the 1700's as a means of combating
rum smugglers.  All things considered, their current mission of combating
drug smugglers is probably not so far removed, in principle, from their
original mission.  The only difference I can see is that 200 years ago, the
mission was not to prevent the importation of an illegal substance, but just
to ensure that the tax (user fee?) was paid on it.
-- 
Roy Smith <roy@nyu.edu>
Hippocrates Project, Department of Microbiology, Coles 202
NYU School of Medicine, 550 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016
"This never happened to Bart Simpson."
From: heon@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (garry.j.heon)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Storm
Keywords: Damage
Date: 23 Dec 92 18:35:07 GMT
Distribution: nj
Organization: AT&T


I live in Monmouth Beach and the damage in some parts is bad.  I
managed to survive without any problems.  The water came up to the
house but never made it in.  The neighbors laughed when I pounded those
60' pilings in for the boat lift, well they  aren't laughing anymore
since I'm the only one left with a dock and boat.  Another 4 feet
and I would have lost the boat.  My neighbors 38' Egg Harbor
wound up in his yard but we manage to it off before the tide went
down.  Yes it was a cold and wet day.

******************************************
* MY OPINIONS.............AT&T's NETWORK *
*                                        *
* Garry Heon                     AT&T    *
* heon@cbnewsg.att.com       Holmdel, NJ *
******************************************
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mikef@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michael Fallavollita)
Subject: Nautical Almanac available electronically?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 20:14:15 GMT

Well, my wife gave me a sextant for Christmas, so after all the reading I
can actually try celestial navigation!  Now, I need to get a Nautical
Almanac so I thought I'd ask if there is an FTP site that might have such
a beast.

Does anyone know?  I would think the information would be in the public
domain.  If anyone is in the know, I'd like to hear from you.

Mike Fallavollita [fallavol@corvus.arc.nasa.gov]
Catalina 25 #3093

-- 
                       Mike Fallavollita
                  
                       fallavol@corvus.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.24.98]
                          mikef@leland.stanford.edu [36.21.0.69]
From: pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu (Greg Pavlov)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Coast Guard Boating Tax, NOT!
Date: 29 Dec 92 15:37:14 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

In article <CARL.92Dec24152359@atlantis.Cayman.COM>, carl@Cayman.COM (Carl Heinzl) writes:
> 
> Except that the border patrol can only check you out when you're
> crossing the border not when you're just approaching it.  
> 
> So, unless you leave US Coastal Waters, they (the Coast Guard) should
> not be able to board you unless they have reasonable probable cause .....

  Except that you might want to do a little "research" into what border patrols
  can and cannot do.........



  greg pavlov
  pavlov@fstrf.org
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mgsail@prefect.cc.bellcore.com (goldstein,marvin)
Subject: Re: inverter and battery use
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 17:51:08 GMT
Keywords: inverter dc battery life

Another word on amp-hours:  The ratings you see for batteries are based on
a 20 hour rate.  i.e., it is the average current that can be drawn from the
battery for 20 hours that will bring the battery voltage down to 1.76 volts
per cell or something like that voltage.  So a 100 amp-hour battery can 
supply 5 amps for 20 hours.  Note that the higher the drain, the less the
amp-hours achievable. I.e., You cannot draw 20 amps for 5 hours.  It will be
less.

Marv
From: wex@castle.ed.ac.uk (John Wexler)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Coast Guard user fee repealed!
Date: 30 Dec 92 12:59:25 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University Computing Service

In article <1992Dec24.183312.19187@ptdcs2.intel.com>,
mroberts@ptdcs2.intel.com (Mark Roberts ~) writes,
apropos my mention of fishery protection vessels:
|> On the Northwest coast (of the U.S.) the Coasties do MOST of the rescue
|> operations required by commercial fishermen.  Some are done by other 
|> fishermen and a few are done by commercial vessels (tankers, passenger
|> liners, etc).
which makes me think that I should explain that, over here, fishery
protection does not mean rescuing fishermen; it means protecting the fish.
Rescues are carried out as for any other vessel in distress, by the
lifeboats or by the RAF.  Fishery protection vessels (try to) control
fishing - checking the mesh sizes of nets, making sure that people are
not fishing for protected species, and so on.  It used to be largely a
matter of keeping foreigners out of territorial waters, but the European
Community has changed all that!  There used also to be (and for all I
know, there may still be) larger fishery protection vessels which
accompanied fishing fleets to distant waters to protect them from
harrassment and interference.  Since lots of countries have taken to
claiming very extensive territorial waters in the last forty years, most
of the distant fishing waters are no longer international, so that kind
of fishery protection is more a matter for politicians than navies nowadays.

    John Wexler
    Edinburgh
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: briang@atlastele.com (Brian Godfrey)
Subject: Re: Celestial vs. GPS (was Re: Bermuda Trip - 7/'93)
Organization: Atlas Telecom Inc.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:23:14 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.161850.29276@cs.brown.edu> jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes) writes:
>In article <1go434INNcsp@calvin.NYU.EDU> roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes:
>>briang@atlastele.com (Brian Godfrey) writes:
>>
>> [how to hack up a sextant-like device]
>> [how to hack up HO249 ...]
>>
>>the ocean) work out sine and cosine tables (you do remember the formulas,
>>don't you?  I think it's sin(x) = x + x^3/3! + x^5/5! + ...; if it's not
>>that, it's something like that, and given enough time I'm sure I could work
>>it out by trial and error).  Obviously, you don't need to work anything out
>>to the 0.1 minute accuracy HO-249 uses.  

   I did not write that, or any of the other quotes in this followup.

-- 
--Brian M. Godfrey
  atlastele.com