HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: arsmith@nyx.cs.du.edu (Alan Smith)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 04:56:31 GMT

In article <64058@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
>Dear Big Al: I'll give it some thought about your suggestiion about send
ng
>you the picture. Maybe Don Showen or Jeff can help me in that project. 
>Lynlee also helps me to operate. Like I say I can use all the
>help I can get. Now new subject. I need to look up a story I read a few
>years back. It talks about a person catching some fish in the ocean off
>the coast of Africa around some named islands. These fish were about the

>size and looke like a guppy. When he got the fish into his small 
>net he could feel the fish jumping but couldn't see them. It
>seems that these fish become invisible when scared then turn to where yo

>can see them in about 20 mlnutes if undisturbed. They sell for over $20,
00
>per pair.  John Winston.

All right, let's do it up.  About the fish, was the dude fishing at night
or in the daytime?

Big Al.  Yes, actually it does make a difference.
A
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: mw@ki.fht-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz)
Subject: Re: Goal vs. no goal
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 06:47:03 GMT
Organization: Fachhochschule fuer Technik Mannheim
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

J.S. Panesar <jsp3690@ultb.isc.rit.edu> wrote:
: In article <kg5my#-_@aix01.rz.fht-mannheim.de> mw@ki.fht-mannheim.de
: (Marc Wachowitz) writes:
: >Jeffrey Chance <jeffjc@cs.mcgill.ca> writes:
: >: We're not meant to sit around idly, we're meant to do things, and also to
: >: become more aware of who we are.
: >Note that for some the latter means exactly sitting around idly (but aware).
: >Of course, when deciding what "we" should or should not do, it would be
: >helpful first to decide what "we" are or are not - so ... <big grin>
: 
: Discover who "we" are first before deciding what we should do or become
: more aware of who we are while doing things?
The comment above wasn't meant to encourage passivity (nor are the statements
about "being without goal". I see the distinction of active vs. passive as
merely conceptual, not found in reality but based on arbitrary decisions on
what to focus when speaking about "me". Let's look at some examples:
Are you pumping the blood around or is it something that happens to you?
Are you breathing or is it something that happens to you?
Are you thinking or is it something that happens to you?
Are you seeing sunshine or is it something that happens to you?
Where is the borderline?
Where is this "you" supposed to be active or passive?

: So it is a little bit of both and more. I find life setting goals
: (deadlines) for me if I don't do it. If I set them and Dance with them
: as some one suggested; won't be that bad. Again , we have to live and
: adjust, very experiencial thing.
Maybe there's just the dance of life, not someone dancing with it? <grin again>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Wachowitz, mw@gandalf.ki.fht-mannheim.de, 75742@novell1.rz.fht-mannheim.de
  *  wonder everyday    *    nothing in particular    *    all is special  *
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:3839 alt.alien.visitors:5880 sci.skeptic:14631 alt.religion.kibology:3551
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:33:19 GMT
  <64200@cup.portal.com> <r50mtqa.jeffp@netcom.com>
  <Bt7tyn.8x7@world.std.com>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Dear Kibo K. or whoever you are: I read the information about Kibo and it
doesn't make much sense to me. Sometimes I think things are getting away from
me. Please be advised that today (wednesday 1100) is the fourth or 
fifth running of the weekly Astral OOBE Sweepstakes. It's got to where
you can't identify anyone without a scorecard. Happy travels to you.
John Winston.
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:3735 alt.alien.visitors:5631 sci.skeptic:14250
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 06:19:00 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <63498@cup.portal.com><BsKsKt.148@apollo.hp.com>
  <63529@cup.portal.com><63711@cup.portal.com>
  <OTTO.92Aug12161437@tukki.jyu.fi>


Dear Astralnauts: We now have another traveller. His name is Walter D.
He is the same person who posted the original material for the lady in 
this collection. I hope he can stand the heat of all the flames by me letting
his name be known.  Last night I had quite an encounter in the lower 
astral realms while going through the lower astral and on my way to the 
realms of light. I came in contact with four astral creatures that startled
me so much that I let out two yells in such a close period of time that
it nearly took me breath away. I probubly scared them too because I 
probubly looked to them like a ball of light moving at a fast pace.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 19:24:13 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <63714@cup.portal.com> <63758@cup.portal.com>

---The eye of the mermaid would sometimes be made of different pictures
and those pictures would have pictures in them until you would look at 
the pictures with up to 50 power magnification. The rock then could be
broken away in layers and the pictures could be looked at. Richard thought
that the rocks were made to be looked at on a sort of viewer of which he
didn't have.  There is a rumor that in a city in the NE part of the US
their is a cobblestone street that is built out of these type stones 
with the information still on them.
John Winston.
From: mw@ki.fht-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Survey
Date: 19 Aug 92 06:29:46 GMT
Organization: Fachhochschule fuer Technik Mannheim
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Chris & Susan Colvin <70253.2621@CompuServe.COM>:
: When you die, where will you go?  (in the ground is not a valid answer)
Even if you knew an answer, what would it be worth?
Reality is beyond words and ideas, and not a matter of "valid" or "invalid".

: If you were to die today, would you go to heaven?
It is said a slight distinction made sepearates heaven and earth.
Why not drop it and let heaven be here and now?

[consider seeing these terms as metaphors for ways of being, not places/times]

: If you were to die today and God asked you, "Why should I let you into my
: heaven?" What would you say?
Don't use that kind of terminology - but here's a nice story about the matter:

A man knocks at the gate of heaven.
A voice asks: "Who's there?"
Man: "It's me"
Voice: "Here is no place for you and me"
The man is puzzled.
.. some time later, he knocks at the gate again ...
Voice: "Who's there?"
Man: "It's still me"
Voice: "Here is no place for you and me"
.. time passes, another attempt ...
Voice: "Who's there?"
Man: "It's you"
"You are in"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Wachowitz, mw@gandalf.ki.fht-mannheim.de, 75742@novell1.rz.fht-mannheim.de
  *  wonder everyday    *    nothing in particular    *    all is special  *
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Subject: Re: Goal vs. no goal (music)
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 01:24:37 GMT

In article <1992Aug4.133511.21557@cs.mcgill.ca> jeffjc@cs.mcgill.ca (Jeffrey CHANCE) writes:
>>
>>Remember that goals separate you from actual life, which doesn't know such
>>a beast. It's all a projection of thinking.
>>
>>Take time, forget time, forget yourself in bliss,
>>
>>  Marc "just wandering, without goal"
>
>Goals don't separate you from life. They give you direction and
>inspiration. The thing is, not to be attached to them or cling to
>them. To not expect.

Living without goals is fine for nonsentient animals.  Not sentient
animals.  (Or sentient plants :-)

Pulling a goal out of a trick top hat and saying "I will be a millionare
before I am 40" separates you from truly living life.  That type of goal
is one most people (not necessarily all) would be better off without.

But before you dismiss all goals, consider the silver plastic disk and
bundle of electronics on my desk.  It is generating variations in air
pressure around my ears.  Careful analysis of the pressure waves will
be insufficient to predict future variations in air pressure.  At each
moment, I am intensely aware of the sound currently produced (although
I am still experiencing an emotional reaction from earlier sounds), with
minimal awareness of what preceeded or will follow.

In short, I appear to be "losing myself" in the music at the moment...
but I get a _much_ stronger reaction to _Back on the Block_ (Quincy Jones)
than I would get from the same notes played in random order.

The difference is that the notes together form _music_ rather than noise.
And it takes an intelligence to recognize music.  (Stories of cows 
producing more music when listening to classical music notwithstanding).


Each act of your life is a note.  Playing it, that is all you should
be aware of.

But to claim that seeking a larger structure in these 'notes,' which form
the music that god[1] hears, distracts you from living seems to be missing
the whole point of living!  It's like walking up to a majestic redwood and
exclaiming "What an interesting cell structure!"


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov

[1] Before anyone accuses me of reverting into Christianity I use 'god'
in the generic sense.  (Vision of the Christain god with a bar code
entwined in his beard.... I'm glad my god is a trickster who appreciates
sick humor!)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:23:22 GMT

John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
:      Subject: Kelvin's UFOs.
[...]
:              That's all for now, John F. Winston.

That couldn't be the real John Winston, there were more that 25 lines
in a single post!

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  I'm sitting on my SPEED
Rosemount Inc.                                |QUEEN..  To me, it's
                                              |ENJOYABLE..  I'm WARM..  I'm
grante@aquarius.rosemount.com                 |VIBRATORY..
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 00:32:00 GMT
Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center
Distribution: usa
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <l8gva7INNf2t@news.bbn.com>, ingria@BBN.COM writes...
>In article <63859@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
> 
>   Dear Rock Watchers: Dr. Demonde has found that rocks from around the globe
>   breathe, but just one inhalation can take anywhere from three days to 
>   two weeks. They have also found that rocks also show signs of brain 
>   activity. Some scientist say they are impressed with the data. In a speech
>   that the Doctor gave to a group of fellow biologists last month he said
>   that we recognize that  our findings are startling, and we need as much
>   additional information as possible to back up our work.
>   So, that's it folks. I think I'll name my rock Lurch.
> 
>Tut, tut.  I think you mean Thing.  It's much more appropriate!
> 
>-30-
>Bob
> 

		When he can pick up 'Lurch' and tell what sex it
		is then maybe I'll be interested.

======================================================================
   We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty...  Twain
                    Internet:    jim@apsicc.aps.edu
       Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager 
======================================================================
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:3760 alt.alien.visitors:5726 sci.skeptic:14383
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 06:40:39 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Aug15.052543.1812@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>

Dear Big Al: I'll give it some thought about your suggestiion about sending
you the picture. Maybe Don Showen or Jeff can help me in that project. 
Lynlee also helps me to operate. Like I say I can use all the
help I can get. Now new subject. I need to look up a story I read a few
years back. It talks about a person catching some fish in the ocean off
the coast of Africa around some named islands. These fish were about the 
size and looke like a guppy. When he got the fish into his small 
net he could feel the fish jumping but couldn't see them. It
seems that these fish become invisible when scared then turn to where you
can see them in about 20 mlnutes if undisturbed. They sell for over $20,000
per pair.  John Winston.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: mw@ki.fht-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz)
Subject: Re: occult secrets (dream)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 08:06:23 GMT
Organization: Fachhochschule fuer Technik Mannheim
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Bear Giles <bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU> talks about a dream.

: In the second, a person tries to convince me to enter a theater to watch
: a fascinating movie.  The movie is interesting, but I never leave the room
: to continue my journey.
Tell, what do you do when you're at the end of the journey and there
are no more other people left to be helped with waking up?

: Recurrent dreams like this are interesting because they're obviously
: important, but the precise meaning is extremely elusive.  I leave it
: to your imagination how much symbolizes Christianity.
The metaphors aren't specific to Christianity - good symbolism, agreed.
But I'd really like to hear what you think about the question above.

: You're either working towards your goal or you're wasting your life.
Which is only the case if you assume it is meant to be/lead to something else.
Taken for what it is - which exists only in relation to what it isn't -
everything just is(n't).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Wachowitz, mw@gandalf.ki.fht-mannheim.de, 75742@novell1.rz.fht-mannheim.de
  *  wonder everyday    *    nothing in particular    *    all is special  *
From: kambic@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Bonus, Iniquus, Celer - Delegitus Duo)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Date: 13 Aug 92 13:25:45 EST

In article <1992Aug11.233100.6385@tc.fluke.COM>, emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery) writes:
[...]
> Perhaps they don't know what they are doing (they are insane).  Should we,
> as people of this earth, allow insane people to kill people because they
> don't know what they are doing?  Should we then refrain from stopping this
> person from such killings because they don't know it is wrong?  A point
> of clarification here: by claiming something as an absolute wrong, I'm
> am not proposing that it is something that some do not violate.
You are getting away from the point.  Are _you_ to be the one who decides?  And
if so, what other issues do you then have the right to decide on?   When you do
want to begin to control what other people think or even do in the privacy of
their own homes or with another person.  

I doubt very much whether the issue is the killing of a random person so much
as an argument from absolutes.  If x is wrong, then how about x + delta, etc.,
etc.

What I think about your random killing example is not relevant in this case.  

Where and how do you draw the line and when do you begin to respect other
people's approaches to their own religion rather than continuing to attempt to
evangelize?  

[...]
>>However this has no impact on whether or not there is or isn't an
>>"Absolute truth," which is still the title of this line of posting.
> 
> But I believe it does.  If this is not an absolute wrong, then it should
> not be punished.  I believe it is wrong, how about you?
Same issue as above.
> 
[..]
> 
> I would hope that calling it always wrong would be where the line is
> drawn.  Is there anyone out there willing to agree with this one poor
> soul?
In what sense; in the sense of an absolute truth based on God's word, or  in
the sense of respect for another human developed independently by humans as
they evolved and now use as a rather pragmatic rule for getting along in the
world?

Nuff said.  Random killing thread is dead.

GXKambic
standard depressed disclaimer
Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:3713 alt.alien.visitors:5560 sci.skeptic:14152
From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 06:13:53 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <63714@cup.portal.com> <63758@cup.portal.com> <80001@bcsaic.boeing.com>

Dear Astral Folk and Rock Watchers: Remember today is the fourth weekly
Astral OOBE Party. Pack your astral bags and don't be late. It seems the
space people are now furnishing us with a space craft and for that I 
am thankful. Oh yes while we've been talking about rockss before I reminded
me that in the past I communicated with Richard Shaver of the The Shaver
Mystery. He sent me one of his rock. You talk about rocks that was a 
rock.
John Winston.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: mw@ki.fht-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz)
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 07:57:51 GMT
Organization: Fachhochschule fuer Technik Mannheim
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

John Emery <emery@tc.fluke.COM> writes:
: What I am saying is under the Newage thought, should the world be a place
: where killing is prohibited?
There is no such thing as "the Newage thought".

: But this is what I'm asking you.  Should the newage declare murder wrong?
Please show me where "the newage" is (and when you meet him/her/it, ask ...).
Until then, there's just a bunch of people and a bunch of ideas, sometimes
similar, sometimes very different.

: I think the issue is still alive and would enjoy hearing thoughts on it.
What about less thoughts about right and wrong, and more love in practice?

: John Emery		"You say we've risen to a new age of light.
: emery@tc.fluke.COM       You're telling me what used to be wrong
: 			 is now right."
Who said this, concretely? What do you mean with the word "wrong", which
implications does it have for you?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Wachowitz, mw@gandalf.ki.fht-mannheim.de, 75742@novell1.rz.fht-mannheim.de
  *  wonder everyday    *    nothing in particular    *    all is special  *
From: doug@testsys.isis.org (Doug Thompson)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 20:21:05 EDT
Distribution: na
Organization: SKAN Communications Inc.

In article <1992Aug18.021009.9166@tronsbox.xei.com> 
(Len Moskowitz) writes: 

> If you were a polite person, or intersted in dialog, you might have
> said "well, *Christianity says* you need to look to... ."
> 
> But you didn't.
> 
> Jews, of course, disagree with you.

Some Jews :-).

The most famous jew of all, Jesus of Nazereth, is reported to have
been in substantial agreement with the poster's observation. 

I really *don't* think you *need* to remind us every time a statement
of Christian doctrine is posted that "jews disagree".

Just a friendly flame :-).

=Doug

---

uuisis!skanadm!doug
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: christin@cae.wisc.edu (Christine Haas)
Subject: Cards
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 12 Aug 92 09:06:32 CDT

Hi,

I was just wondering if any of you have/ use any of the
new-age self-help/divination cards.  Besides tarot cards,
I have just purchased a really cool set of cards called 
the "Power Deck" by I forget who.  They have really neat
pictures but I haven't gotten the chance to use them yet -
I am in the midst of moving and all.

Chris.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:42:39 GMT

John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes:
: Dear Astral Folk and Rock Watchers: Remember today is the fourth weekly
: Astral OOBE Party. Pack your astral bags and don't be late. It seems the
: space people are now furnishing us with a space craft and for that I 
: am thankful. Oh yes while we've been talking about rockss before I reminded
: me that in the past I communicated with Richard Shaver of the The Shaver
: Mystery. He sent me one of his rock. You talk about rocks that was a 
: rock.
: John Winston.

If I may quote one of George Carlin's lines in an otherwise
forgettable movie:

  "Man, the sixties were good to _you_."

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  This MUST be a good
Rosemount Inc.                                |party -- My RIB CAGE is being
                                              |painfully pressed up against
grante@aquarius.rosemount.com                 |someone's MARTINI!!
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
From: winter@sol.surv.utas.edu.au (Derek Winter)
Subject: Introduction to Newage
Organization: CenSIS at University of Tasmania
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 23:56:32 GMT

Hello,
	
				I am new to this Newage stuff, and although I have heard bits and pieces
about it, I do not really understand much about it. So I would really 
appreciate some background about how? what? where? why? and who? type 
questions regarding the origins and beliefs of the newage.

												thanks in advance,
																					Derek.
From: walsha@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Beginning to think is beginning to be undermined - Albert Camus.)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: absolute truth
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:46:59 EST

In article <sbuckley.714429755@sfu.ca>, sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley) writes:
> bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles) writes:
> 
>>I AM LYING AS I SPEAK.
> 
>>Until you understand this koan, you will never understand the "new age."
> 
>   and like the tao which unintelligible, this koan and "the new age"
> resist clearly delineated concepts.  but one can be delineated: that
> there are no clear delineable truths.
> 
>   and this makes that koan, the tao and the new age unable to appeal
> to many people's search for truth or understanding in the world.  it's
> then irrelevant.
> 

Exactly. If you're searching for a highly dogmatic belief system,
one with a concrete structure to reassure you, newage will not
make you comfortable. And isn't this why the emery/nordeng
vs. newage debates are so useless? Neither side is the least
bit interested in what the other has to say. Both side are
looking for, finding and taking comfort in totally different 
world-views.

    ando.

Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:3981 alt.alien.visitors:6030 sci.skeptic:14850