HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis)
Subject: Re: Computer Salary Survey
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:37:14 GMT

   This topic seems to come up here every few months.  I wonder why most
people don't seem to know that Computerworld (one of the major US
computer magazines, and probably the major one for large-scale business
data processing applications) publishes a salary survey of U.S. data
processing every year, broken down by area, specialty and all other
sorts of ways.  I don't remember when the last one was, but most larger
University libraries probably have back issues available.
From: smonte@unf6.unf.edu (Sidney Monteiro Jr)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: BLACK LIST OF AGENCIES
Summary: request for a personna/agency-non-grata list
Keywords: scam contractors recruiter headhunter job
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:41:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of North Florida, Jacksonville

Greetings !

	I would like to know if there is a black list of recruiters/headhunters
/employers/scam artists available in any newsgroup or site.
	Such a list would be a great reference for us job seekers.
	I wouldn't mind gathering replies of horror stories/bad experiences
with agencies. I could summarize and post it to a newsgroup as a service.
	Anyone for/against this or that knows where it can be found,
please reply.

Sidney.

/ -Not tonight, honey. I have a headache.
  -Here you go. Take 2 of those and I will be back in a little while. /
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: ssimmons@convex.com (Steve Simmons)
Subject: >>>>>> Good reason for a few days' off
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 17:59:01 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

> I need your help and suggestions on how I can get a permission from my
> boss for a few days off with a good excuse which will not leave a bad 
> impression to him(my boss). I don't want to give him the real reason for 
> my leave. But I have to take a few days off to do something really 
> important. I just accepted this job and have started it for only one week.
> I have been thinking of the excuses I may use instead of telling the truth.
> It is written in the company's employee handbook that employees are not 
> encouraged to take a leave during the first three months unless they have
> emergent reasons. 


Didn't you ever play hooky from school????  You normally get caught for 
whatever reasons.  Also, the entire day off is a guaranteed drag because
you are worried about being found out.  My best advise is to never piss
off a new boss.  A bad first impression is a tough thing to get over. 

Do your conscience and NEW manager a favor... tell the truth... If it is 
very personal, just say it and don't fill in the details.  If you are 
not in crunch time, most bosses won't care and will give you a few days 
off. If you are in crunch time, then get back to work and don't be so 
selfish.

Thank you. 

						Steve Simmons 
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: ted@sage0.gsfc.nasa.gov (Ted Ying)
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Organization: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 20:03:09 GMT

orville%weyrich@uunet.uu.net (Orville R. Weyrich) writes:

>In article <1992Oct5.105339.20769@cnplss5.cnps.philips.nl> arjay@cnplss5.cnps.philips.nl (R.J. Kimmel) writes:

>>Family/Maternity Leave that is of obvious use to a women should also be
>>given to a man who may also, though not quite so obviously, need it as well.

>If the need isn't so obvious, then probably the need isn't as strong. There
>are actually TWO kinds of needs being discussed here:

>	1) physical needs
>	2) psychological needs

>In the area of physical needs, women clearly have significantly greater needs
>than men. Believe me, I was able to work right up to the evening of my child's
>delivery, and show up at work the next day as well. My wife had a SIGNIFICANTLY
>harder time of it. I strongly suspect that the experience of my family unit
>is fairly typical.

	This is all well and fine.  And who did you have around the house	
	to assist your wife during recovery and take care of the child
	during that time?

	I agree that we really need to think much more about the
	consequences of family leave before instituting it, but this is
	just avoiding the issue.  It is all well and fine that you could
	work right up to the evening of your child's delivery, but there
	are some men around who need to take time off to care for a wife
	after a delivery and to care for a child while the wife is
	recovering.  Childbirth is very strenuous on the woman and it isn't
	too easy to recover from such if you have an infant requiring
	attention every two hours.

>In the area of psychological needs, there is no reason to expect any difference
>between men and women. But psychology is a pretty wishy-washy subject with lots
>of different theories that can be used to prove just about any point you might
>choose. And anyway, we can't afford it given our present budget and trade
>deficits, without eliminating something else. Exactly what other employer-
>provided fringe-benefit or government-provided social program do you think is
>less important than paid "psychological" leave?

	But as another poster corrected me about...what does this have to
	do with *unpaid* family leave?  Remember that the bill that was
	veto'ed was for unpaid family leave for mother or father of a
	newborn.

	I think we still have to consider the issue of what impact this
	will have on our smaller companies where each staff member is
	much more critical to the business, but I don't think that the
	above arguments hold very strong against the proposed unpaid
	family leave.

	Ted Ying			ted@rosserv.gsfc.nasa.gov
	Hughes/STX			Goddard Space Flight Center
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News)
Subject: Re: Strange Interviewing question
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:21:47 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

.    Your methodology misses a couple of very important steps:
From: goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman)

    1: Identify the problem
    2: Search through the "bugs" file/list/database.  Chances are, one of
       your colleagues has already identified/fixed the problem. If not,
       add a description to the list.  Even if you are working alone on
       a small piece of code, it pays to maintain a list of defects.
    ...
>Well there you have it in a nut shell. Anyone giving a round about answer
>to that question would not be allowed near my code. CS degree or not.

    Careful, for by your own definition you should not be allowed 
    near your code:).

>And I confess, I don't have a [CS] degree, but I do have something else.

    One does not need to have a CS degree to debug a program, nor a formal
    debugging methodology ingrained in one's brain, but some medium-to-
    large-scale software development experience may be helpful.










-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rdc00a@nmrdc1.nmrdc.nnmc.navy.mil (Kelly Pedersen)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Man Power Needed
Date: 7 Oct 92 18:02:28 GMT
Organization: Naval Medical R&D Command

In article <1992Oct6.004724.11718@pellns.alleg.edu> romingk@pell3l0.alleg.edu (Karl Rominger) writes:
>Path: nocusuhs!mimsy!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!pellns.alleg.edu!news
>From: romingk@pell3l0.alleg.edu (Karl Rominger)
>Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
>Subject: Man Power Needed
>>
>Please email me at romingk@alleg.edu for more details.
>
>Karl Rominger
>romingk@alleg.edu

!!!!!If this is legit (and not another Amway scam) post the partic's.
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy)
Subject: Re: Strange Interviewing question
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 01:41:10 GMT

In article <718900562snx@apusapus.demon.co.uk> tfj@apusapus.demon.co.uk (Trevor Jenkins) writes:

< As to your observation that my question is "ridiculous" and basing a hiring
< decision on ONE question is "bizare". You are correct on both counts. In
< mitigation however I plead that I KNOW what my bias is (and having stated it
< here so does everybody else) whereas most interviewers are unaware of their
< own bias when they make the choice. Perhaps more importantly the candidates
< haven't figured out who the interviewer will be and havent tried to find
< out something about the person so that they can gauge for themselves what
< the bias is likely to be.

	This is not always possible; some companies won't give
	candidates any information about the interview team at all.
	If one has no inside contact in the company and the
	HR people flatly refuse to provide any information, it
	is virtually impossible to find out who the interviewers
	are going to be, let alone what their biases are.

[text deleted]

<   I ask LOTS of questions. I go into an interview very well prepared. I know
<   what I'm going to ask; why I'm going to ask it and what I'm looking for in
<   the reply. The "debugging" question is intended to search out critical
<   judgement rather than pat answers hence its value as the deciding question.

	This is quite reasonable and, in fact, encouraging.

<   There is one other piece of information I expect prospective candidates to
<   know which is where I got MY computer science degree from. :-;

	Suppose that your HR department flatly refused to even
	tell the candidate your name; would you still expect
	them to find out where earned your degree?

<   By the way, if I GO for an interview myself I prepare as comprehensive a
<   list of questions as I have pre-prepared when I'm on the hiring side of the
<   desk. I may not always know what the bias of the interviewer is but I'm not
<   going to give them the opportunity to rule me out because of a technical
<   gaff. 

	Excellent advice. Thank you very much for posting this.

<This leaves it to the imaginary stuff like:

<	   I dont have green hair
<	   I'm not a Nam vet
<	   I didn't attend an Ivy league college
<	   I cant speel
<	   I'm not a woman

	I'm afraid that the ReEducation Police will be looking
	for you now, however....
	
	;-)
From: ghica@fig.citib.com (Renato Ghica)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: JPM
Date: 14 Oct 92 18:48:42 GMT
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Originator: ghica@duck


I know someone who is contemplating a position at JPM.
(ie working there)

Could someone pass along their experiences (good or bad)
so I may ease the decision process? 

e-mail or post.

Thanks.

-- 

"I am a brain, Watson."
"These views are my own. / Mail me or Flame me"
From: icpa@iat.holonet.net (Tony Rodriguez)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: International Software Jobs
Date: 13 Oct 92 20:52:01 GMT
Organization: HoloNet (BBS: 510-704-1058)

The International Computer Professional Association is a member supported
organization for experienced software professionals who want to work overseas.
We have contact with over 750 technical recruitment firms in the US and
abroad. If you are interested in working overseas, contact us and we will
send you information on membership with the ICPA.


Sincerely 

Tony Rodriguez

Director ICPA


International Computer Professional Association
2261 Market Street, Suite 309
San Francisco, CA 94114
USA

Tel: (415) 695 - 7618
Fax: (415) 252 - 5769

email icpa@holonet.net
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: bonnie@nmsu.edu (Bonnie Hargrave)
Subject: Re: Wanted: NOT FT, NOT contract
Organization: Computing Research Lab
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 21:49:06 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.162415.9041@netcom.com> sbale@netcom.com (Swamy S. Bale) writes:


   STOP USING USENET FOR YOUR BUSINESS PURPOSEEEEEEEEEEEEE


Really?  I thought that's what this group was _for_.  It's an
international distribution group, is it not?  

--

		bonnie@nmsu.edu         
		Bonnie Hargrave
From: dgeary@sierra.com (David Geary)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: what's a nice place? Places in the US
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:28:58 GMT
Organization: Sierra Geophysics,  Kirkland WA

In article <1992Oct8.203526.1925@kopachuk.uucp> dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman) writes:
>In article <3352@isgtec.isgtec.com> mike@isgtec.com (Mike Sellers) writes:
>>                                                          Second, there's
>>the weather.  It drizzles in the PNW from about late September to April or
>>May.  Sometimes there's snow in the winter, but there's always week after
>>week of lead gray skies.  
>
>Maybe I don't get it, because I'm a native, but isn't that what
>winter's *about*?  I mean, would it be better to have -300 degrees
>for 5 months like they have in the "mid"west?  I actually *like*
>the lead gray skies and drizzle.  Gives you kind of a comfy,
>close-in sort of feeling, like being under a blanket.  But, like
>I said, I'm a native.
>

  Sure it's what winters are about *here* in Seattle (or Portland FTM).  Most
places however, average more than 2 days per month of sunshine during the
winter months.  In addition, while many snowy places may be overcast
during the winter, it's not the same as here; snow brightens up what
would otherwise be a grey day.  I submit that there is nowhere in the
continental US that is darker, wetter, and more depressing than the PNW during
the winter.  Perhaps that's why Seattle/Tacoma leads the nation in suicide rate.

-- 
David Geary           	|   Seattle - America's most attractive city ... 
Sierra Geophysics	|	
dgeary@sierra.com	|   to the jetstream ;-(
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: tfj@apusapus.demon.co.uk (Trevor Jenkins)
From: greg@saltydog.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis)
Subject: Re: Bargaining for vacation time?
Organization: Data Parallel Systems, Inc
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:44:27 GMT

In <1992Oct8.142043.9892@weyrich.UUCP> orville%weyrich@uunet.uu.net (Orville R. Weyrich) writes:

>In article <greg.718424955@octopus> greg@octopus.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis) writes:
>>Screw them.  It's been 200 years since the last revolution in this
>>country and it's about time for another one.
>>

>Well you obviously aren't a "dull chap." Advocating armed rebellion against
>the government? My, my. a "real" man for sure. :-)

Once again, a comprehension problem Orville.  Find where I advocated
"armed rebellion against the government" in my above sentence, please.  You
can't because it's not in there.  Revolution does not always equate to
armed rebellion against a government.

>They are
>demanding MORE work, LOWER taxes and RESPONSIBLE stewardship from those that
>they send to Washington.

What kind of a moron would demand MORE work?  Do you mean that some people
want to be employed so that they can make some money?  Frankly, if I were to
start making demands it would be for LESS work or MORE money.  Ideally
both, where the amount of work comes as close as possible to zero.

greg

--
Gregory Reed Travis				D  P  S  I
Data Parallel Systems Incorporated   greg@dpsi.com (For MX mailers only!)
Bloomington, IN			     greg@indiana.edu (For the others)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: bmcllree@ad-server.Naitc.Com (Bob McLlree)
Subject: Re: BLACK LIST OF AGENCIES
Keywords: scam contractors recruiter headhunter job
Organization: AC Nielsen Co., Bannockburn IL
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 22:55:21 GMT

In article <1992Oct16.194126.18262@sinkhole.unf.edu> smonte@unf6.unf.edu (Sidney Monteiro Jr) writes:
>
>	I would like to know if there is a black list of recruiters/headhunters
>/employers/scam artists available in any newsgroup or site.
>	I wouldn't mind gathering replies of horror stories/bad experiences
>with agencies. I could summarize and post it to a newsgroup as a service.

Methinks that if you publish such a list without elaborate fact-checking
of the accuser's claims, one could be liable for a hefty libel/slander
lawsuit if you post it to the net.

Bob McIlree

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: barker@saipan.wri.com (Harold Barker)
Subject: Re: Allen & Associates (Headhunters)
Organization: Wolfram Research, Inc.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:34:01 GMT


This is an out-placement firm i believe.

In article <5o1DsB4w165w@quest.UUCP> kdq@quest.UUCP (Kevin D. Quitt)  
writes:
> vaccaro@novavax.UUCP (N. Trafford Vaccaro) writes:
> > ... a little alarm went off in my head when the woman
> > there wanted a 398 dollar "out-of-pocket" payment up front.
> 
>     Listen to that alarm.  Run, do not walk, away from them. Do not pay
> them anything.  No reputable placement firm will charge you anything.
> 
>  _
> Kevin D. Quitt                                 Job Quest (805) 251-8210
> srhqla!quest!kdq                               Learn How to Get a Job in  
SoCal
> 
>                 96.37% of all statistics are made up.

--
Work            voice   217-398-0700  |   Home
barker@wri.com  fax     217-398-0747  |   barker@rhiannon.wri.com
NeXT Mail accepted                    |   NeXT Mail accepted
--------------------------------------|----------------------------------- 
---
barker@rhiannon.wri.com will not be seen at work ;-)
From: mike@pacsoft.com (Mike Stefanik)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Bargaining for vacation time?
Date: 11 Oct 92 08:20:34 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Pacific Software Group, Riverside, CA

In an article, cshaver@informix.com (Craig Shaver) writes:
>If we do not get the situation under control soon, we will have armed
>anarchy.

I doubt it.

(Pardon me while I climb up on my soapbox ...)

The more that you demand from your government to do for you what you do not
want to do for yourself, the more it will cost. The more that you want the
government to do for you, the more you are inviting committees, laws, graft
and corruption into your personal lives. The more that you want given to you,
the more that you must pay now, or pass that debt to your children.

The problem is that people believe that they are ENTITLED to everything,
but OBLIGATED for nothing. You want your government to legislate morality
and good behaviour, but scream when your personal freedoms are impinged upon.
You want a wide range of benefits from society: child care, health care,
education, law enforcement (the list goes on and on ...) but you don't
want to pay for it. You demand that government be responsive, responsible
and representative ... yet you elect people who steal, cheat and lie ...
over and over again.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that we all deserve
the government we've got. The only really sad thing is that we are passing
this disease to our children.

Some good words to think about ...

independent: acting so as to manage one's own affairs; self-sufficient;
	self-reliant; not needing financial support; self-supporting

freedom: liberty of personal choice, action or thought

responsible: having capacity to perceive the distinctions of right and
	wrong; answerable for the discharge of a duty, trust or debt;
	able to meet obligations or to act without superior authority
	or guidance

government: the system or established form of rule by which a nation
	is controlled; management; regulation; control

-- 
Mike Stefanik  mike@pacsoft.com  ...!uunet!pacsoft!mike  (714) 681-2623
Pacific Software Group, Riverside, CA
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: subbarao@tex.Princeton.EDU (Kartik Subbarao)
Subject: Re: layoffs, hiring freeze...
Reply-To: subbarao@fc.hp.com
Organization: putchar('I'); for (i = 0; i < 3; i++) putchar('E');
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:36:55 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.140631.5243@ra.msstate.edu> rmo@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Robert M. Opalko) writes:
>Hello all,
>
> A friend of mine said that last HP had a big layoff last week? Does anyone
>know enough about this to verify it?  Who was layed off? - managers? manu-
>facturing?  I know that HP has always went to great lengths to avoid layoffs,
>so if it is true, it comes as a big suprise...I also know that most divisions
>have had a hiring freeze since their stock plummeted recently.

GEEZ. This is precisely the kind of rumors that the press loves to
perpetuate. NO, HP DID NOT LAY OFF ANY PEOPLE, and DOESN'T PLAN TO. What
was announced was that HP plans to offer VSI (Voluntary Severance
Incentive) to reduce its workforce. The plan that was announced is that
people eligible could chose to resign, and would take home 6 months pay +
(1/2 month's pay * # years of service).

I hope this clears things up.

	-Kartik
From: toad@cellar.org (Tony Shepps)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Strengths and Weaknesses (was Re: Advice Please)
Date: 14 Oct 92 04:09:57 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

rudoff@mdd.comm.mot.com (Doug Rudoff) writes:
> [Question about what to say for her weaknesses]
> 
> This is a common and annoying question one receives while
> interviewing. The best answers are ones that express a weakness as a
> strength. For example:
> 
> "I get too involved in my work and end up sacrificing my social life."

One reason why this question is annoying is that so many people have
prepared for it at this point.  It's become the kind of question that
doesn't really tell the interviewer much about a candidate.  Still, there
are very few good answers an interviewee can give.

I always wonder whether the interviewer is really trying to find out whether
they'll get that negative-as-a-postive response.  The last time I had to
answer that one, I said

"Well, I don't play office politics too well.  For example, during my last
job [quality assurance], the correct political play was to ship our product
when it contained quite a number of very serious defects.  I stood ground
and advised that we not ship."

A manager who likes to play politics would interpret this answer as a true
negative.  But that's fine; it's also an honest answer, and I really
wouldn't want to work for a manager who doesn't value principled people.

--
Also, I think Washington, D.C. should be destroyed.
Tony Shepps toad@cellar.org
Preferred address: toad%cellar@tredysvr.tredydev.unisys.com
Public access and thoughtful conversation:  The Cellar BBS  +1 215 654 9184 
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: 22407LIZ@MSU
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Advice Please
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:33:14 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University

I apologize in advance if this is a Frequently Asked Question, but I could use
some advice on how to answer the commonly asked question, "Name three of your
strenghts and three of your weaknesses".  I don't have as much trouble with the
strenghts part (although I often feel my answers are kinda cliche) as I do with
listing my weaknesses.  Not that I think I'm perfect, but I just never know
what to say.  Does anyone have some good answers to this question?  Please post
them hear or e-mail me.  If this question is answered in a FAQ, then could some
one just send me that.

Thanks.
Liz
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc