From: tom@ocf.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: CLASH OF THE TREK-TITANS '92
Date: 8 Apr 92 09:54:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.rufspINNira
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: lightning.berkeley.edu

In article <frain.702720583@depot.cis.ksu.edu> frain@cis.ksu.edu (Jerry Frain) writes:
)tom@ocf.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:
)
)> Let's be fair here--the main reason bav is able to kill GA's in his
)> DD is that most of the players on chaos servers are total hosers.
)
)Hmmm, no.  The reason that bav can kill GA's in his DD is because he
)is good, I should know.  I've played opposite him for years, and I've
)not met a more worthy opponent.  'Course, most people haven't played
)near as long as we have; experience presides over youth.

I did not mean to disparage bav's talent--he's a good dogfighter.  But, 
from my experience fighting the best DD dogfighters at Berkeley, a DD
doesn't really have a chance against a big ship unless the big ship
does a Pac-Man, which good players tend not to do.

This is less true on a chaos server because the DD can fire basically
an infinite number of torps, but as long as the big ship can dodge
reasonably well, these torps will not kill him.

)> He's sometimes able to kill me in his DD because the net to KSU from
)> Berkeley is totally hosed (although it may have been fixed by now...
)> haven't played at KSU much recently).
)
)If you are an average to bad dogfighter, then the above paragraph
)supports your supposition that
)
)	the main reason bav is able to kill GA's in his DD is that
)	most of the players on chaos servers are total hosers
)
)However, if you are indeed decent at dogfighting, then the fact that
)bav only kills you in his DD when you are experiencing net lag does
)not show anything, except that perhaps you are better than many of the
)people who play on the chaos servers (note that this is not the same
)as "most of the players on chaos servers are total hosers").

I *am* better than many of the people who play on chaos servers.  most
of the players on chaos servers *ARE* total hosers; if you play on
them and you don't see this then I don't think we understand the term
'hoser' the same way.  When I play foghorn, I see lots of people who
can get kills only by gimmicks; teaming up with a buddy for double
plasmas, cloak attacking, using borgs.  There are practically *no*
real dogfighters on these servers; the real dogfighters are noticable
by their inflated ratios (and their labb@web.berkeley.edu logins,
usually  :)  These are extremely rare, however.

)> (although it's less of a disadvantage on a chaos server with the
)> ridiculous refuel rates).
)
)I still support the "ridiculous" refuel rates, because I don't see the
)sense in spending half the game sitting still because I don't have
)enough fuel for sustained battle.  I like to be able to continuously
)move and defend myself and get kills.

I'm not saying they're wrong, I'm saying they're ridiculous.  
Might as well make fuel infinite.

)> I wouldn't want to fight a GA in a BB (unless, getting back to point
)> 1, it's a total hoser in a GA).
)
)Let me take this a step further.  I would prefer not to fight someone
)as good as (or better than) myself when they are in a GA and I in a
)BB.  However, I have no qualms fighting someone when they are in a GA
)and I in a DD, if they are not as good as me (note: this does not
)necessarily make them a "total hoser"), and I am not also fighting net
)lag.

Well, that's a personal thing.  But as long as I have a clean enough 
connection to use tractors and phasers effectively, the DD will lose.
I cannot prove this except by demonstration, and I can't get a 
good enough conncetion to KSU to demonstrate, sorry.  It's significant
to note that the first time this discussion came up (CA-BB, it was), 
Warlock challanged me to prove it; he was unable to damage me at 
Berkeley and I was able to kill him a number of times at CMU (although
he did have a ratio >1 against me there).  While this only proves
that BB's handle netlag better, I think there's something more basic 
at work.
 -Mojo
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek