HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov (John Roberts)
Subject: Gravitational assist
X-Added: Forwarded by Space Digest
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology formerly National Bureau of Standards
Original-Sender: isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU
Distribution: sci
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 05:57:29 GMT


-From: nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines)
-Subject: Re: Query Re: pluto direct/ o
-Date: 3 Nov 92 21:07:27 GMT
-Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University

-In article <BwztnB.5z3@brunel.ac.uk> mt90dac@brunel.ac.uk (Del Cotter) writes:
-   >While I'm here, anyone know if a gravity assist trajectory can be used to 
-   >*reduce* speed?  

-   There's no end to the fun you can have playing interplanetary snooker; I
-   think the fundamental limit for any single encounter (confirmation, please?)
-   is the vector sum of spacecraft and accelerating body beforehand.

Another important factor is the maximum angle of deflection of the trajectory
of the spacecraft. This is a function of the density of the body being used
for gravitational assist - if it's very dense, the spacecraft can get 
relatively close to the center of gravity of the body, and can thus make
a tighter turn.

-As I understand it, a gravity assist trajectory is simply a hyperbolic
-path around the relevant body. Such a path is characterised as
-follows:

>- the departure speed is the same as the arrival speed
>- the change in direction is larger for a closer approach
>- the higher the speed, the smaller the change in direction.

-Work out the path in the frame of the planet, then add the planet's
-velocity to all the results.

That's one kind of gravitational assist. You can also greatly increase your
delta-V by burning your fuel at closest approach on a flyby trajectory.
The quickest way to get out of the solar system using a conventional
chemical rocket is to go out to Jupiter, use a slingshot around Jupiter to
kill almost all of your solar orbital velocity, fall in toward the sun on a
very close flyby, then burn the remainder of your fuel as you pass the sun.
There's a long-term proposal for such a mission.

John Roberts
roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov

Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.sci.planetary
From: jboggs@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu (John D. Boggs)
Subject: Re: Lunar "colony" reality check
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:50:44 GMT

From article <1drh9aINN91n@gap.caltech.edu>, by carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick):
> In article <1992Nov11.143433.18514@news.weeg.uiowa.edu>, jboggs@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu (John D. Boggs) writes:
> => 
> =
> =Yes to blindness in newborns, but it is the *nitrogen* that has the narcotic
> =effect in deep sea diving -- hence the use of helium for the really really
> =deep dives.
> 
> If oxygen at high pressures DIDN'T cause the bad effects, why bother mixing it
> with helium?  Yes, nitrogen has narcotic effects at high pressure, but so does
> oxygen.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I'm not saying it doesn't have bad effects, I'm saying it doesn't have
*narcotic* effects.  However, it's been pointed out to me via e-mail that 
oxygen does indeed have narcotic effects as well as the nasy poison kill-you
effects at high pressure.  

I guess we just got incomplete information in my dive classes.  Or maybe
it's just that at sport diving depths nitrogen narcosis is much more likely
to set in that any narcotic effects of oxygen.  Live & learn.

-John D. Boggs     uunet!erato!jdb

Newsgroups: sci.space
From: mheney@access.digex.com (Michael K. Heney)
Subject: Re: More lunar gravity questions
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Distribution: sci
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:23:29 GMT

In article <BxEyEE.6C9.1@cs.cmu.edu> roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov (John Roberts) writes:
> [...]
>
>-References I've seen indicate that Earth's tides are responsible for
>-locking the moon's rotation to the orbit.
>
>I believe the main effects of the tides on Earth are to slow the Earth's
>rotation and to cause the moon to gradually move further from the Earth.
>If one assumes that the moon once rotated faster than it revolved, then the
>tidal forces must have been much greater than those we see on Earth, because
>of the greater mass of the Earth. If the moon were liquid at the time (which
>would fit the Earth impact model), then those tides would have stirred the
>entire body of the moon, generating tremendous friction.
>
>One aspect I'm more uncertain of: if the moon continues to move outward
>from the Earth, then the period of its revolution about the Earth must
>be increasing. If its rotation continues to remain tidally locked, then
>there must be some currently active mechanism that maintains this state.
>It would be a subtle effect, and I can think of several possible mechanisms
>to explain it, but I'm not sure of the relative magnitudes. Perhaps drag
>from the "rocking" (what's the word?) of the moon relative to the Earth is
>sufficient to account for it.
>
The word you're looking for is LIBRATION.  It's caused by the fact that 
the moon's orbit is elliptical, so that while the rotation about it's axis
is constant, it's angular velocity over it's orbit changes, so it appears
to "rock" back and forth over the course of an orbit.  About 59% of the
moon's surface is visible at some point during the month.

There would be tides on a rotating moon, too, although they'd be pretty small
(a matter of inches).  Over time, it's enough for tidal braking.  Given that
the moon is not symmetrical gravitationally, it will maintain a "gravity
gradient" attitude toward the earth.
-- 
Mike Heney                |   Senior Systems Analyst and     |  Reach for the
mheney@access.digex.com   |  Space Activist / Entrepreneur   |  Stars, eh?
Kensington, MD (near DC)  |     * Will Work for Money *      |
From: roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov (John Roberts)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: reality check (2)
Date: 13 Nov 92 03:24:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BxMxKB.G1I.1
Distribution: sci
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology formerly National Bureau of Standards
X-Added: Forwarded by Space Digest
Original-Sender: isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU


-From: sysmgr@king.eng.umd.edu (Doug Mohney)
-Subject: Re: Reality check (2)
-Date: 12 Nov 92 15:51:03 GMT
-Organization: Computer Aided Design Lab, U. of Maryland College Park

-In article <BxKxDv.14u.1@cs.cmu.edu>, roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov (John Roberts) writes:
-[in reference to doing work on the moon...]
->I think a lot of the initial work could be done with robots, more cheaply than
->sending humans there right away. (Once we know more, and hopefully have more
->appropriate launchers, we can send humans.)

-You'll need some humans hanging around, just to apply duct tape.

Eventually, sure. But I was referring mainly to the very beginning of the
process - things that could potentially be done starting just a few years
from now. You don't need humans around just to figure out how to pound sand.
For example - teleoperated rovers have already been sent to the moon (by the
Russians) - we could do more of that, to locate good sites. "Earth moving"
and "factory" functions would be more of a challenge, but we could start
small - something on the order of the Viking landers. I suspect with 
concentration on the "smaller, faster, cheaper" approach, we could get in
several good lunar surface missions for under a billion dollars - while it
would cost many billions and require a new (or restored) launcher to send
even one person to the moon. While the robotic missions are underway, new 
launchers will (hopefully) be coming along, and launch costs will (hopefully) 
be dropping, so by the time we can afford to send humans to the moon, we'll 
have a much clearer idea of what they should be doing.

Anyway, I don't think we ever established that duct (grey) tape remains
sticky after long exposure to vacuum. Experience from Skylab and the Shuttle
shows that it will work for short periods.

John Roberts
roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov
From: 3001crad@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Charles Frank Radley)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Ice hardness
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:34:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: ucsbcsl.6654

In article <BxIIvB.GyE.2@cs.cmu.edu> lindsay+@cs.cmu.edu (Donald Lindsay) writes:



>Being hard doesn't mean that bulk material is without flaws. It
>wouldn't be surprising if the explosion caused major fracturing.
>Precisely how much, would be unpredictable. 

>Don		D.C.Lindsay 	Carnegie Mellon Computer Science
-
Indeeed.  Hardness and strength do not prevent a material from containing
numerous flaws, large and small.
  Flaws can propogte, regardless of the strength or hardness of the material.
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen)
Subject: Re: Interesting Text on UFO's
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 01:02:46 GMT
Keywords: Bill Cooper has been dis-credited time & time again


In article <.60.0@> @ writes:
>
>          Fellow computer enthusiasts,                            11-24-89
>            What follows is a transcript of a 45 minute lecture that I at-
>          tended on 11-17-89 at the "Whole Life Expo." in Los Angeles,
>          California. Speaking was Mr. Milton William Cooper who I first
>          became acquainted with through a text file I downloaded from a
>          local computer BBS. The file dealt with the subject of UFO's and
>          our government's concealment of the truth about them in such a
>          way that it made a lasting impression on me, which is why I
>          attended his lecture; to learn more. Please forgive my probable
>          misspelling of some of the proper names in the transcript which
>          follows and allow that I have taken it as best I could, word-
>          for-word, from a less than acceptable micro-cassette recording.
>            If you are as moved by what you are about to read as I was in
>          hearing it first hand, I ask that you please spread it as far
>          and wide as possible. Upload it to every BBS in your reach and

Yet another posting of Bill Cooper's garbage. You would be better advised
to spend some time doing real research. FYI, Bill Cooper has been
throughly dis-credited by his *own* words.

I was around when Cooper first appeared on ParaNet and also witnessed
Cooper get booted off that Network by the (then) administrator, Jim
Speiser. The reason? When Cooper made these incredible claims and
when the ParaNet members sought more clarification, Cooper's response
was to become hostile and then start labeling _anyone_ who dared
to question him as a "Govt agent". In short, Cooper has been de-bunked
by the best of them in UFOlogy, mainly because his facts aren't checkable,
much like the claims of John Lear and Robert Lazar. 

I get so tired of following up and straightening people out on Cooper's
BS..by the way, if you waste your money on his lectures or tapes, you
soon discover his "facts" are prevaricated and twisted. If you waste
your money on his book, "Behold a Pale Horse" , you discover that Cooper
makes claims such as William Greer (JFK's driver) was the one that
shot JFK. Be advised that this lunatic includes in his book, the
whole "Learned Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and he ACTUALLY
BELIEVES THEM!

You be better advised to move on and read anything by Jacques Vallee
or Dr David Jacobs, and throw Cooper's BS into the trash can where
it properly belongs. 

Don



-- 
<*> Don Allen <*>             1:363/81.1 - Fidonet #1 - Homebody BBS
dona@bilver.uucp - Internet   1:363/29.8 - Fidonet #2 - Gourmet Delight
88:4205/1.1  - MUFON Network  1:3607/20.2  -- Odyssey - Alabama UFO Net
NSA grep food: Aviary, Ed Dames, Los Alamos - Majestic - Jason - RIIA - UN
Xref: sparky sci.space:15688 alt.sci.planetary:276
From: manuel@space.ualberta.ca  (John Manuel)
Subject: Re: astronauts voting
Reply-To: manuel@space.ualberta.ca  (John Manuel)
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:12:05 GMT

James Davis Nicoll writes
> 	With the exception of voters in  Quebec (Quebec ran its own
> 'referendum' with slightly different rules), I do not think Canadians
> were allowed absentee ballots  in  the recent 'referendum'.

I know several Canadians who cast their referendum ballots in advance polls.  
There were several opportunities in the week or so before referendum day.

--
John R. Manuel                   Department of Physics, University of Alberta
manuel@space.ualberta.ca                   Edmonton, Alberta, CANADA, T6G 2J1
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: choy@skorpio.usask.ca (I am a terminator.)
Subject: What kind of computers are in the shuttle?
Organization: University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:53:36 GMT

The computers used to control the shuttle use very complex programs
that people don't want to rewrite for newer computers. Has any
upgrades been done or are the computers still the same old beasts?

Henry Choy
choy@cs.usask.ca
From: roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov (John Roberts)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: NASA Coverup
Date: 9 Nov 92 13:39:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BxGBBn.FDq.1
Distribution: sci
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology formerly National Bureau of Standards
X-Added: Forwarded by Space Digest
Original-Sender: isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU


-From: snarfy@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
-Subject: NASA Coverup
-Keywords: snarfy concedes
-Date: 8 Nov 92 20:04:00 GMT

-    I  rented  a  videotape  called "Man to the Moon" ,produced by CBS news.
-   Timing Buzz Aldrin's leap from the 3 foot bottom rung of the Lunar Module
-   ladder , I come up with about 1 second ,which would be consistent with  a
-   lunar  gravity  of  1/6. Although he still to be holding on to the ladder
-   throughout the leap , it seems that it is just to steady himself , not to
-   slow the fall.

-    On this basis then, I concede that the lunar gravity is 1/6 .

If that's the documentary produced in 1989 (the one *not* hosted by Walter
Cronkite), then watch out for one inconsistency - they use extensive footage
from missions *after* Apollo 11, while giving the impression that it's from
the Apollo 11 mission. For instance, they show the takeoff from the moon as
seen by the camera on the lunar rover, while in fact there was no lunar
rover on the Apollo 11 mission. That was an editorial decision by CBS, not
a deception by NASA. I suppose one could argue that it could *just barely*
be excused as artistic license, though it reduces the documentary value of
the program.

-    I  apologize  ,publicly  ,  over the net, to the general class of people
-   known as "NASA Scientists" who I accused of concealing  the  truth  about
-   the lunar gravity.

-    I  am  , at least,gratified to learn that Velikovsky's idea of planetary
-   collisions , long scorned and ridiculed by the scientific community ,  is
-   now the prevailing theory explaining the origin of the moon.

The Voyager images made it clear that numerous massive collisions were
a system-wide phenomemon of the early solar system (several bilion years
ago), not just local to the Earth-moon region. This awakened greater interest
in the concept of catastrophic collisions as a significant factor in the
formation of the solar system. Velikovsky thought that spectacular (and
mathematically insupportable) events took place only a few thousand years
ago.

(The strongest piece of scientific evidence to support Velokovsky's theories
is the existence of "Velokovsky's Right!" T-shirts. :-)

John Roberts
roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov
From: higgins@fnalc.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: KSC Feature Story Ideas
Date: 11 Nov 92 03:22:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: fnalc.1992Nov10.212232.1
Followup-To: sci.space
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory

Gee, I love PR...

In article <1992Nov10.170550.10537@news.arc.nasa.gov>, baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) writes:
>           KSC FEATURE STORY IDEAS -- NOVEMBER 1992
[...]
>           KSC to Collect Christmastide Donations for Charity
> 
>                Center Director Bob Crippen has invited all Government and
>           contractor employees at KSC to participate in the Christmastide
>           Program -- an effort to assist needy individuals and families in
>           Brevard. This year no clothing, toys or food are being collected.
                               ^^                   ^^^^
>           Instead, only monetary donations will be presented to the
>           Salvation Army for distribution throughout the County. This is
>           but one of many ways KSC employees contribute to those less
>           fortunate.
[...]
>           CELSS Continues Crop Studies
> 
>                A NASA team has recently harvested nearly 500 pounds of
>           potatoes from KSC's Controlled Ecological Life Support Systems
>           (CELSS) laboratories. The hydroponically grown potatoes are part
>           of a study being conducted by NASA and The Bionetics Corp. to
>           study the most effective ways to grow food plants in space.
>           (Public Affairs Contact: Mitch Varnes)

So why couldn't they donate the potatoes?

Bill Higgins, Beam Jockey              | ASTRONOMY:
Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory  | The early science of the sky.
Bitnet:           HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET  | ASTROLOGY:
Internet:       HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV  | How it was paid for.
SPAN/Hepnet:           43011::HIGGINS  | --Michael Rivero 
Xref: sparky sci.space:15373 alt.conspiracy:11887
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: NASA Coverup
Keywords: Naivete' Ideas Laughable
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:03:46 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <4581@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us> snarfy@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us writes:
>
>
>   My  calculations  assume the neutral point to be motionless with respect
>   to the earth and moon . What do your calculations assume?
>
> snarfy
>
>
must be a wormhole near the neutral zone, and i bet those romulans are using
it to get access to our moon!
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: choy@skorpio.usask.ca (I am a terminator.)
Subject: Where are shuttle research publications?
Organization: University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 02:15:25 GMT


Where can I find publications on research and work done with the shuttle?

Henry Choy
choy@cs.usask.ca
From: roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov (John Roberts)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Uranium abundance on Earth
Date: 8 Nov 92 05:36:35 GMT
Distribution: sci
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology formerly National Bureau of Standards
X-Added: Forwarded by Space Digest
Original-Sender: isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU


-From: dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz)
-Subject: Re: Ten embarrassed questions about the moon (very long)
-Date: 7 Nov 92 23:02:31 GMT
-Organization: Computer Science Department University of Rochester

-In article <BxD5Hz.Ewt.1@cs.cmu.edu> roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov (John Roberts) writes:
...
-> The total lunar abundance of uranium is thought to be about 60 ppb,
-> and thorium about 230 ppb. The only figure I could find for the Earth
-> was 2.7 ppb in the crust. 

-The figure you have for terrestrial uranium is wrong: uranium is
-about 1000x more abundant than that in the earth's crust.

"About" understates the case - I read the number right from a table in the
CRC Handbook, where it was listed as "2.7 x 10^0 mg/kg". In the heat of the
moment, I stuck in an extra factor of 1000. Oops! There seems to be a lot
of this going around lately. So make that 2.7 ppm.

Thanks for the correction. (And boos and hisses to the editor who thought
that was a good way to set up an abundance table. :-)

John Roberts
roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov
From: gumby@ucsd.edu (Henry Ptasinski)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: NASA Coverup
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:41:01 GMT

> snarfy@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us writes:
> >   [garbage erased]
> 
> >   equipment  in the the backpack. While a Scuba diver's dual tanks weigh in
> >   at about 80 pounds and are designed to aid the diver in  sinking  to  the
> >   bottom

Scuba tanks are NOT designed to "aid the diver in sinking".  Most tanks are  
actually negatively bouyant in salt water, especially when not completely full.   
Thus they actually aid the diver in floating to the surface (even if that isn't  
what he wants to do at the time).  The weight of the tanks is due to the amount  
of material necessary to contain air at pressures of over 3000 psi without a  
catastrophic failure.

I'm sorry I missed the original post.  There's just not enough to laugh about  
on the net lately.

Henry P.
gumby@ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.sci.planetary
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Lunar "colony" reality check
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:23:06 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <8NOV199215122237@judy.uh.edu> wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov writes:
>>  ... Much of the LH will leak before
>>  it can be used; it's extremely difficult and expensive
>>  to store even for the few days trip.
>
>Funny that the Apollo SIII stage had no problem with that. It worked for
>several days at a time to push the astronauts to the moon...

While I hate to disagree with anyone picking on Nick :-) :-), note that
there was no S-III stage (the Saturn V was S-IC, S-II, S-IVB) and even
the S-IVB's on-orbit lifetime was only a few hours.

However, hauling substantial amounts of LH2 to the Moon appears to pose
no particular problem.  The Apollo spacecraft all did it for their fuel
cells, and Griffin's FLO proposal uses LH2-LOX engines (RL10s, in fact)
in the lander's descent stage.
-- 
MS-DOS is the OS/360 of the 1980s.      | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
              -Hal W. Hardenbergh (1985)|  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: flb@flb.optiplan.fi ("F.Baube x554")
Subject: Low-Pressure O2 Atmosphere
X-Added: Forwarded by Space Digest
Organization: [via International Space University]
Original-Sender: isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU
Distribution: sci
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 13:11:49 GMT

Carl J Lydick <carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU> writes:
> Subject: Lunar "colony" reality check
> giglio@betsy.gsfc.nasa.gov (Louis Giglio) writes:
> >The oxygen had to be diluted with something.
> >They would have died otherwise.
> 
> You would be correct had the vehicle been pressurized to 1 atmosphere. 
> However, your conclusion does not follow if the cabin pressure was .2
> atmosphere.

But in pure O2 lots of things burn that "shouldn't", like 
asbestos fibers.  This actually happened long before that 
Apollo capsule burned up, and should have alerted NASA.

If our lunar atmosphere is pure O2, then every dust cloud 
kicked up by a lunar buggy creates an explosion hazard.  
It will have to be "diluted".  Can nitrogen be generated ?
What other gases would work ?  Helium would leak away too
quickly and incidentally create a Planet of the Ducks.

/fred :: baube@optiplan.fi
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: What kind of computers are in the shuttle?
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:42:47 GMT
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology

In article <1992Nov11.175336.22450@access.usask.ca> choy@skorpio.usask.ca (I am a terminator.) writes:
>The computers used to control the shuttle use very complex programs
>that people don't want to rewrite for newer computers. Has any
>upgrades been done or are the computers still the same old beasts?

A (compatible) upgrade is being done as opportunity permits, when the
orbiters go in for major overhauls.
-- 
MS-DOS is the OS/360 of the 1980s.      | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
              -Hal W. Hardenbergh (1985)|  henry@zoo.toronto.edu  utzoo!henry
Newsgroups: sci.space