HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dudley@treefort.Corp.Sun.COM (Dudley Gaman)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Looking around
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:58:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: treefort.corp.sun.com

In article <1992Jul27.142351.16117@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> legacy@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (wayne.m.simpson) writes:
>>Now I am thoroughly confused. My broker says it is a Freedom 20 with the
>>funny seats, and Dudley Gaman says it is a Freedom 21 -- and he should
>>know, his brother has one. This is definitely a cat boat, but with a lot
>>of go-fast Harken hardware, and everything, reefing and all, leads back
>>to the cockpit. Oh yes, lazy jacks. Free-standing mast (that MUST be Hoyt).
>>and a fitting on the pulpit that looks like it has something to do with
>>a spinnaker (pole hole? gun carriage?). The baoat is called the Green
>>Machine and looks ominously fast. So, which is it? Who designed it. If its
>>a 20, I save $4 on dock fees... Yes, it does have a spinnaker halyard.
>>
Green Machine, I'm almost certain, is the same boat my brother has.  Take a
look at the Freedom at Pete's Harbor.  Stand between Spinnaker Sailing and
the Harbor House (grease pit) Restaurant facing the salt pile.  It will be
about 3/4 of the way down on the left side.  That is the same boat, but has
a plexiglass strips covering the portlights (cabin windows).  Otherwise it
is identical to my brother's Freedom 21.
>
>   The old Freedom 21 was a Garry Hoyt design. It is distinguished by
>its having no windows on the cabin house. 

Well, my brother's Freedom 21 (circa early '80) has opening cabin windows,
if that helps.

> All Freedoms, whether designed
>by Garry Hoyt or Gary Mull, have free standing carbon fiber spars. That
>is the concept on which the Freedom line is based.

Check.

>   The new Freedom 20 (or maybe it is a 21, also) was designed most likely
>by Gary Mull and has windows on the cabin house. The Freedom Independance
>(boat for the handicapped) is based on this newer design. The gun mount
>spinnaker is a Gary Hoyt invention, and no doubt Freedom retained the 
>rights to produce it when Hoyt bailed out of his interest in Freedom 
>Yachts.

...and a very easy design to use.  In theory, you can raise and douse it from
the cockpit, but it seems to put quite a bit of strain on the light fabric
without a little help from a friendly fordeck hand.

The bottom line should be the pink slip.  I would think that would have the
correct info.

Dudley Gaman
Invictus
Pete's Harbor
Redwood City, CA
.
From: ben@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Benjamin Ellsworth)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 01:25:52 GMT
Subject: Re: Reefable headsails  Was: Re: Why only one main?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA
Newsgroups: rec.boats


>   (i)  It is my understanding that (in heavy conditions, when racing,
>        ignoring comfort, on a boat that is set up for it) a tall but
>        narrow headsail can outperform a short, long footed headsail of
>        equal area. ...

I've waited a bti to comment on this hoping that some real experts
would reply.  I'm not an expert but having done a bit of sailing in
heavy conditions (not survival just heavy), I have some opinions.

I think that there are two related reasons, handling and efficiency.  A
high aspect ratio sail will be more efficient than a low aspect ratio
sail.  This means that you can put up less sail for the same amount of
drive.  A smaller sail is going to be easier to manage.  Beyond the
managability of simply being fewer square feet, there is the fact that
a short footed jib is easier to manage under all conditions than a long
footed jib--when it's all you can do just to keep the boat on her feet,
this becomes important.

The one characteristic of a heavy air jib that you did not mention is
that it should also have a high clew--when you're taking green water
over the bow, you don't want a decksweeper catching it--things break
otherwise.  Also visibility is an issue in these conditions.

---

Ben

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: What is a Spirit 23?
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 11:51:03 GMT

Maybe a Sprite 23 mis-spelt?
From: werner@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu (John Werner)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Anybody need crew?
Date: 25 Jul 1992 19:46:29 GMT
Organization: School of Education, U.C. Berkeley
Distribution: ba
NNTP-Posting-Host: dewey.soe.berkeley.edu
Originator: werner@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu

[Note the "ba" bay area distribution on this.  If you get it and
aren't supposed to, you might want to complain to your news admin.]

I just moved to Oakland from Chicago; I'm working at UC Berkeley.  I'm
wondering of anyone who races out of the Berkeley or Emeryville marinas
needs a crew member.  I had about a year of experience crewing on a
J-30 in Chicago, mostly working in the pit tacking the jib or 
handling the spinnaker sheets.

If anybody is interested, please drop me some email, or you can call me
at (510) 655-6188 (home) or (510) 642-9651 (work).

Thanks

John Werner
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: spencer@panix.com (David Spencer)
Subject: Re: rules question
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:58:39 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

Laughlin.Hughes@f764.n153.z1.fido.zeta.org.au (Laughlin Hughes) writes:

[boat clears start line, gets pushed back by current, bears off behind
committee boat and sails the rest of the race.]

>The Race Committee protested the boat for failing to sail the
>course, under rule 51.2 (the 'string' rule).

The boat _started_ when any part of her hull, crew or equipment first
crossed the starting line in the direction of the course to the first
mark. (Definitions) The starting line is a line between a _mark_ and a
mast or staff on the committee boat (6(a)) (assuming that the
instructions do not designate the CB as a _mark_, see 6(b)).  The pin
end of the line is therefore a _mark_, but the boat is not.

Rule 51.2:

  "A yacht shall _sail_ the course so as to round or pass each _mark_
   on the required side in correct sequence, and so that a string
   representing her wake, from the time she _starts_ until she
   _finishes_, would, when drawn taut, lie on the required side of
   each _mark_, touching each rounding _mark_."

The committee boat, not being a _mark_, is irrelevant. The protest
fails. OTOH, if the boat went back around the pin, the protest would
be valid.

All of the above assumes no funny sailing instructions; defined terms
_scored_.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: nage@ellis.uchicago.edu (Rufus Nagel)
Subject: Delivery?
Reply-To: nage@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:05:27 GMT

	I have been sailing competitively in Chicago for the last two years
and have recently finished my first Chicago-Macinaw race. I am interested in
finding out about delivery opportunities. I am 22 and will be attending 
graduate school in chicago during the school year. I am going to the Baltic
in a week to enjoy some live-aboard experience. I would love to get a ride
on a maxi to learn big boat sailing next season. So far I have raced on an 
Olsen 9.11 and J-24. If anyone has some experiences to share about big boat 
racing and/or delivery opportunities, drop me a line.
Rufus (nage@midway.uchicago.edu)
From: Doug_Steinfeld@vos.stratus.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Insurance Company Survey
Date: 22 Jul 92 14:11:35 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc.

I've been insured with Ocean Underwriters for the past couple of years.  My
boat was
damaged in Hurricane Bob, and their performance on this rather large claim has
been
pretty good.  In addition, they did not raise my premium after the claim (nor
did
they terminate coverage).  The premium was lower than Boat/U.S.

Your results may vary.

Doug
From: whoward@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu (Will Howard)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Looking for watch
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:45:37 GMT
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory

Can you post what model (Number) that Yacht Timer is? The roll-over feature is
the one thing I wish my watch had. Do any of the "plain vanilla" Casio watches
also have the roll-over countdown?

I have one of those Casio "G-Shock" watches. It's big and indestructible, and I
use it for sailing, windsurfing, and diving. I call it "Robo-Watch." i've had
it for about five years and it just won't die.

What I'd like to see some manufacturer come out with is a wrist-mounted,
digital, dedicated stopwatch (countdown). That's right. Only one function. and
only one or two buttons. Bet they could do it for about $5. Then USYRU and
Sailing World mag. could give them away when you join or subscribe... How about
inscribed with your boat name, for you guys too cheap to give the crew Lands
End jackets or shirts?
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: Looking around
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:09:55 GMT

Wayne Simpson writes:

	Back in the old Garry Hoyt days at Freedom, there was a Freedom 21.
	This was a cat sloop design with very small self tending jib (Hoyt 
	called it and "accelerator/energizer", anything to keep from calling 
	it a jib.), a fin keel, a gun mount spinnaker and some heavy duty 
	advertising. There was a magazine ad picturing one of these little 
	boats working to windward on Naragansett Bay in about 40 knots of 
	wind and a steep chop. Very impressive...

	The Freedom 20 is, I think, a Gary Mull design as are most of the 
	newer Freedoms. I expect it, too, has a fin or wing keel. The 
	Freedom Independance is a Freedom 20 modified for disabled sailors. 
	There are two swiveling chairs for the helm and crew positions. 
	Wheelchair bound sailors strap themselves into the chairs and go 
	sailing with the help of a single able bodied crew member, who put 
	up the sails and does the other jobs requiring one to get up.

Now I am thoroughly confused. My broker says it is a Freedom 20 with the
funny seats, and Dudley Gaman says it is a Freedom 21 -- and he should
know, his brother has one. This is definitely a cat boat, but with a lot
of go-fast Harken hardware, and everything, reefing and all, leads back
to the cockpit. Oh yes, lazy jacks. Free-standing mast (that MUST be Hoyt).
and a fitting on the pulpit that looks like it has something to do with
a spinnaker (pole hole? gun carriage?). The baoat is called the Green
Machine and looks ominously fast. So, which is it? Who designed it. If its
a 20, I save $4 on dock fees... Yes, it does have a spinnaker halyard.

						Fido



Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg)
Subject: Re: Insurance Company Survey
Organization: Hatch Usenet and E-mail.  Playa del Rey, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 00:19:38 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.115222.9259@pdn.paradyne.com> larry@pdn.paradyne.com (Larry Swift) writes:
>My boat has been insured by Travelers for several years.

Likewise, about 9 years.

>                     I've never filed a claim with them,
>tho, and wonder if anyone else has and what their
>experience was.  So far, no complaints.

I did have one claim, which was settled with no hassels and fairly.
I am still insured with Travelers, and have no plans to change.

-- 
                
Rich Greenberg - N6LRT - 310-649-0238 - richg@hatch.socal.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jwh@sei.cmu.edu (John Huber)
Subject: Re: Cruise control for ski boat
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:59:48 GMT


In article <BNNN&4-@b-tech.uucp>, jon@console.ais.org (Jon Zeeff) writes:
|> Can I get a cruise control for my ski boat (inboard)?  If not, it there any
|> reason they don't make one - it seems quite useful for trick skiing and the
|> slalom course.
|> 
|> -- 
|> Jon Zeeff   NIC handle JZ   jon@ais.org  zeeff@b-tech.ann-arbor.mi.us

PREFACE: I am a tournament driver for water ski competitions.

I would certainly hope that these do not exist!!!  It would be extremely
dangerous - I can see drivers putting on cruise and ignoring the water ahead
of them while they watch the skier (or whatever).  NO BOAT should be able to
cruise without a driver managing the controls (steering, throttle, etc.)

In driving for events such as tricks and slalom, I find that the accuracy of
any type of cruise control system would be worthless.  Judging by the systems
that are on automobiles that I own, they allow too much fluctuation.  The
tolerance in a tournament is minimal (and even when "free" skiing or
practicing skiers like a consistent speed) and the pull of the skier is often
times strong enough to drastically change the speed of the boat.  Any cruise
system would not respond with the same intuition as a human driver, nor with
the proper subtleties required to provide a smooth and consistent pull.  I
even change the settings on many tournament inboards for slalom events (I
usually disable the 4-barrel so that it does not kick in and out as the skier
pulls/releases the pull).

Aside from the nitpicking of maintaining a "true" speed, I still feel that any
such device would be VERY dangerous!

-Jay's $0.02 worth

John W. Huber, Jr. - aka Jay   | Penguins - 1991,1992 Stanley Cup Champions
Software Engineering Institute | Pirates - 1990,1991 NL East Champions
SEI 3217        (412) 268-3550 | MasterCraft - The ONLY boat for skiing



John W. Huber, Jr. - aka Jay   | Penguins - 1991,1992 Stanley Cup Champions
Software Engineering Institute | Pirates - 1990,1991 NL East Champions
SEI 3217        (412) 268-3550 | MasterCraft - The ONLY boat for skiing
Organisation: European Space Operation Centre (E.S.O.C)
Date: Wednesday, 29 Jul 1992 12:44:16 CET
From: <RFLOOD@ESOC.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject:    Teflon Antifouling

Would anyone with experience of teflon antifouling (costs, durability,
ease of replacement and effectiveness) please let me know about it.
I'm really interested in use in salt water, mild climates.
If there's enough queries I'll post a summary.
RaF
From: billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Courington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Reefing headsails, was Why only one main?
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:11:36 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: sextant.eng.sun.com

In article 1@scivax.stsci.edu, lubenow@scivax.stsci.edu () writes:
..
>   So far, I think reefing the sail is less work than bending on a new one 
>would be, and there's no risk of loosing a sail overboard.  And the job is 
>done mostly sitting in the middle of the foredeck; only the tack snap shackle 
>and a couple hanks to unclip up at the point.  I'm nowhere near the top of the 
>learning curve yet, but even so I think reefing headsails is very much worth 
>considering, especially if you have them designed with that in mind.

Thanks for the first-hand report.  As a singlehander, will 
you tell us why you chose a jib with reef points rather than a 
roller furling/reefing setup?  Reliability?  Cost?  Reefed sail shape?

Bill Courington




Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jadams@vixen.uucp (26070-adams)
Subject: Re: Stainless Steel Props
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 16:39:40 GMT
Summary: bronze versus brass

In article <6140059@hplsla.hp.com>, davek@hplsla.hp.com (Dave Kelley) writes:
> STU@mwvm.mitre.org writes:
> Actually, the prop is made out of nibral, a nickel-brass alloy.  Somehow I
> think that bronze (copper, tin and sometimes other elements) would be too
                             ^^^ zinc, not tin;  copper and tin form
brass.

Jack (John) Adams		| Bellcore RRC 4B-259
(908) 699-3447 {Voice}		| (908) 336-2871 {Facsimile}
jadams@vixen.bellcore.com	| kahuna@attmail.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
	-- Experience...the ability to recognize a mistake when you make
	it again -- 
From: mcnab@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Alan McNab)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:43:09 GMT
Subject: Re: Reefable headsails  Was: Re: Why only one main?
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.boats


> >1) It's illegal in most racing rules to change the main during a race.

>      Isn't it generally true that things which are made illegal by racing 
> associations improve boat performance?

NO!

Any limitations made to boats are usually in one design fleets
to keep the costs somewhat reasonable, and so that deep-pocket
owners don't buy their way into first place.

Alan
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: joel@ssd.intel.com (Joel Clark)
Subject: Re: name that sailboat contest!!!
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division, Intel Corp.
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 21:46:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.111732.521@esvax.avnet.com> huffstatler@esvax.avnet.com writes:
}
}Name the boat contest!
}
}OK, here's the story.  A friend of mine has a 37' Hunter Sailboat.
}This is currently used as a live-aboard in Marina Del Rey, California.
}He and his wife have had the boat for over a year now, and they have yet
}to name the vessel.  The reason I was given was that they "just couldn't
}find anything that sounds right"   so.....WE NEED TO FIND A NAME!
}
}Thank's in advance. 
}
}Mike Huffstatler, Avnet Computer
}Culver City, CA

I've like boat names that are puns, and for shear punniness :-), 
I have always liked:

	SEAQUESTOR

		1) Conquer the Seas
	
		2) to go off by oneself

		3) when the bank resposses it

joel clark


Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mike@ravel.udel.edu (Michael James Porter)
Subject: Re: Cruise control for ski boat
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:15:22 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.175948.6328@sei.cmu.edu> jwh@sei.cmu.edu (John Huber) writes:
>
>In article <BNNN&4-@b-tech.uucp>, jon@console.ais.org (Jon Zeeff) writes:
>|> Can I get a cruise control for my ski boat (inboard)?  If not, it there any
>|> reason they don't make one - it seems quite useful for trick skiing and the
>|> slalom course.


Cruise control would have been amusing last night.  The speedo got disabled
for a few moments - poor guy would have ended up doing 45mph.
From: jrm@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.r.miller)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: How to measure speed across the water
Keywords: speed boat navigation
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:05:12 GMT
Organization: AT&T

Netters:
	I have a sailboat and I want to cruise. I have been studying 
the Chapman navigation book and have found it very useful. I am 
learning how to construct my DR plot and discovered something lacking.
That is, a way to measure my speed across the water. I don't have a
device aboard that will provide that for me other than, perhaps, a
watch.

	Anyway, I have seen plenty of expensive gear in the marine
catalogs that have little paddle wheels, etc for measuring your
speed. There must be a low tech low cost way of doing the same thing.

	For example, there is a neat little wind speed gauge that you
can hold into the wind to get the wind speed. They cost 8.95$. Or, you
can spend several hundred and get a fancy electronic that does the same
thing.

	Does anyone know of a device that I can use periodically to
determine my speed -- and where to get it?

	I thought of using a chip of wood and a stop watch -- that would
work, but I would like to move up a little from there. Also, there is the
"toss your wife off the bow method" and time how long it takes here to
climb on board and ring your neck. Of course, there is the time honored
method of throwing a chute and a "knotted" rope off of the stern and
counting how many "knots" go over in a unit of time.

	I was hopeing for something like the wind gauge -- e.g., you stick
a hose in the water and you get a reading -------



			Thanks in advance,

			John Miller

			Catalina 22 #4909 - "Tinker Toy"
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: kell@mprgate.mpr.ca (Dave Kell)
Subject: Re: Looking for (not expensive) Wrist-Watch for Sailing
Reply-To: kell@mprgate.mpr.ca (Dave Kell)
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 21:35:39 GMT

In article <5011@transfer.stratus.com>, kvk@questor.sw.stratus.com (Ken Koellner) writes:
|> Features
|> I'd be interested in could include: multiple time zones, alarm(s),
|> countdown timer(s), stop-watch(es), barameter/altimeter.  I'm
|> primarily intested in cruising/daysailng. I don't race sailboats now
|> so I don't need features specific to racing although some racing
|> features might be useful for cruising/daysailing.

I've been using a Timex digital sports watch for the last 5 years which has
worked out quite well for sailing.  It's a Marathon watch, but there are others
(Decathlon, etc.) with similar features.  The watch cost about $35 new, I think.

Features:

Waterproof to 100m
2 time zones
Alarm on the hour (beep beep)
Settable (to the minute) alarm (plays a little tune)
12/24 hour time presentation format
Day of week, day of month, month (doesn't do leap years)
Stopwatch (only 1 hour worth, to .01 seconds)
Countdown timer (max 12 hours, settable to 1 minute) - great for racing

I like the watch.  I has a rubber wristband, which I have to replace every
year or two ($2 if you look around), but otherwise has been very adequate.
I never take it off.

dK
===========================================================================
Dave Kell   (604) 293-5753                 kell@mowgli.mpr.ca
MPR Teltech Ltd.                           mprgate.mpr.ca!kell@uunet.uu.net
8999 Nelson Way
Burnaby, BC, CANADA
V5A 4B5
===========================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: gbuitrag@ossi.com (Guillermo Buitrago)
Subject: >>>>>> LOOKING FOR CREW!!!!!!
Organization: Fujitsu America, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 01:02:17 GMT

Anybody interested in sailing the SF Bay Area, Santa Cruz area, the west coast?

SEND REPLY TO ------->>>>  gbuitrag@fai.com  
Send reply to ----> gbuitrag@fai.com

Currently looking for crew to sail 30-45' boats......
From: STU@mwvm.mitre.org
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Stainless Steel Props
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:22:59 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102

My old Bayliner picked up 3 knots when I changed from aluminium to stainless.
 
Prior to the change, she didn't have enought power to pull me up on one ski -
I'm not very strong and a little over weight - with the new prop, she pulled
just fine.
 
My Mastercraft has a bronze prop - and a 351 Ford - and will pull you and
4 of your closest friends up on one ski each with 6 in the boat - so I kept
the original bronze prop and didn't go looking for changes.
 
Does anyone have any idea how bronze compares with stainless?
 
I'm about to change the prop on the Shearwater - from a 2-blade to a 3-blade
because I found the 3-blade was MUCH quieter in addition to being faster.
 
Same question:  Is a stainless prop better for a sailboat?  Are they available?
Why does everyone use bronze?
 
/Stu