From: reaume@bmerh962.bnr.ca (Andy Reaume)
Subject: Re: ASIA AQUA --> Excuse me, but ...
Summary: ASIA AQUA
Keywords: Asia Aqua Payne Downes Howe
Organization: Bell Northern Research, Ottawa, Ontario Canada
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 21:48:06 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.152513.4224@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>, marwood@csri.toronto.edu (Simon J. Marwood) writes:
> In article <1993Jan9.190559.27723@bmerh85.bnr.ca> reaume@bmerh962.bnr.ca (Andy Reaume) writes:
> >... this is *NOT* ASIA.
> 
> That really depends on what you want to define *ASIA* as. The band's current
> sound is certainly not circa-1982 Asia. But it is not out-and-out crap either.
> Once you get over the initial shock of John Payne's voice relative to Wetton's,
> it turns out to be quite an enjoyable album. Not a classic, certainly, but
> not garbage either.
> 

	Well I didn't mean to start a flame war either, I was just 
pointing out that this is not the original ``ASIA'' sound that made
them a world-wide hit. I didn't say it was garbage, it just sounds to me
more like Whitesnake than ASIA. I am comlaining that the name ASIA is
on the cover and I feel it misleads those of us looking for the 
``original'' sound, that I personally can't get enough of.

> > _Astra_ was awful and no
> >wonder it went directly to the delete bins.
> 
> Actually, the reason that Astra went to the delete bins as quickly as it
> did was the fact that both Geffen (and most radio and MTV) had a
> different agenda by this time, and as a result, the record company did not
> promote the album. This happened at the same time as much in-fighting in
> the band. Again, Astra is not the same kind of music as the original
> sound, for the most part. Nor is it "poseur crap".
> 

	I agre that in-fightinh had a lot to do with the disintegration
of the original band. As for the change in musical direction on _Astra_,
I partly agree that the record company wanted them to have a harder
sound on guitar (look at _90125_ by Yes, outsold many of their earlier
albums even thought the die-hard Yes fans don't consider it their best).
Howe's influence would have made the difference and the album could 
have been at least as good as _Alpha_.

> >Geoff Downes is the only original
> >member of the band left and he co-writes every song and is basically
> >calling the shots now that he is a big time producer.
> 
> Firstly, you are correct in that Geoff Downes is calling the shots. But
> that is nothing new. Downes owns the ASIA name, and has always called
> the shots.

	Actually, Weetton/Downes always called the shots. When Wetton
couldn't get his way in the end, he split. Downes may own the name
ASIA and he is credited with contributing to their early success, not
to mention the success of other projects like GTR, but he alone is not
ASIA and I just personally feel ripped-off by this new sound that does
not really remind of the original ASIA.

> Secondly, Howe has returned to the fold insofar as he toured with the
> band (as "special guest"), and plans to do the next Asia album. There
> is some discussion about what to do about the guitar situation, because
> Vinny Burns has been the tour guitarist, and Howe does not like being
> in a band with another guitarist. Howe's intention is to continue with
> his solo work, but also participate in Asia from now on. Remember, he
> was forced out of the band in the first place because of the Wetton/Lake
> fiasco of 1983-ish. He and Downes have been close since, so it is not
> really surprising that he is coming back to the fold now that Wetton is
> gone.

	Even though the original ASIA was a commercial format, Howe
could still find room to innovate, such as the guitar synth on 
_Soul Survivor_ and the melodic guitar solos on the other songs. Where
most other guitarists, particularly the ones that have tried to 
replace Howe, give in to the high distortion, ear-splitting solos, Howe
pitches a change-up, he tries to make the guitar a melodic instrument
as it was intended to be, not a ``fastball'' of distortion. He 
stretched a lot of his hard work in progressive rock to the pop-rock
world when he joined ASIA. If he gets back into ASIA as a charter mem-
ber, I'm sure that the sound will improve immensely.
> 
> Furthermore, Howe came in late on the project, which leads to the lack
> of credit on all but "Aqua Part 1".
> 
> Incidentally, Wetton, who doesn't like mentioning the word ASIA nowadays,
> has said himself that he thinks this is a good album. (!!)
> 

	I really like Wetton too, but his production the last 8 years
has left a lot to be desired and if he calls _AQUA_ a good album by
ASIA standards then why did he leave? That doesn't make any sense.

> As for John Payne's looks: irrelevant. Let's say that the original band
> was still together and Wetton shaved his head. Would that make a
> difference?
> 

	Granted, one should not judge a book by it's cover. The again,
in rock music, appearances are sometimes meant to develop a opinion of
the music taste that the artist is trying to give ouy. Have you seen
a metal group that doesn't have long hair, clad in leather and have
some kind of evil name. Very few. I look at Payne's picture and he 
trying to give me the impression his a ``glamour rocker boy'' with the
hat and jewlery. That's why he wears them. It just doesn't fit the 
mold. Then I hear the screeching vocals and I get the impression that
this group is now not what it started out to be.

> Granted, the disc has a much harder sound to it, and borders on pop-metal
> in places. However, it is still nothing like Whitesnake, Poison, Winger,
> et al. 

	I disagree totally. Most of the tracks sound like new Whitesnake
which in itself is a galmour/pop/metal sound than true metal (not that
I'm a big fan of Whitesnake). Your opinion against mine I guess.

> Now that Howe is back around, the sound
> will likely change somewhat again. 

	Agreed and definitely for the better!
> 
> This certainly isn't intended as a flame, just a vast disagreement. At
> first, as I mentioned, you hear Payne and think: "????!?!?!?". Also, the
> original sound is long-gone. But the disc as a whole is still utterly
> listenable, and once you get used to the change, it is actually quite
> good.

	Agree that we disagree about whether it is ASIA music. My beef
is that this is not ``ASIA'' as it was originally meant to be. I did 
not mean that the _AQUA_ album is bad music, it's just not what I 
would expect from a group called ``ASIA'' and if I knew this before 
buying it, I wouldn't have bought it. I feel that ASIA fans are being
riped off and just want to warn them they should be in for a surprise.

--- Andy
Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive