From: amdunn@mongrel.uucp (Andrew M. Dunn)
Subject: Re: Computer shops in Toronto --- opinions?
Organization: A. Dunn Systems Corporation, Kitchener, Canada
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 15:08:19 GMT

In article <2AE7BAC.2A5C@telly.on.ca> evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) writes:
>In article <713748564.15422@zooid.guild.org> David Mason writes:
>
>While a clone may be as good as a name brand, it isn't necessarily so.
>
>>When you want to upgrade,
>
>depends totally on the quality of the vendor. A good name-brand vendor
>can help you upgrade as easily as a clonemaker.

But upgrades from name-branders are typically more expensive than
upgrades from clone-makers.  Why?  A simple economic law -- they
typically have a captive market.

A name brand (with national support, more staff, more advertising,
and more expensive glossy manuals) usually costs more; to sell at
clone prices, they stack some of their margin onto the peripherals,
add-ons, upgrades and repair/replacement parts.

>>or get repairs
>
>Repairs? Hah! How many clone makers even have schematics of the stuff
>they sell, let alone know how to fix 'em?

Schematics are rarely required to fix a PC.  Board-level replacement
is easy once the failed component is identified.  The boards themselves
are purchased by the clone-makers under warranty from the vendor,
to whom they send the failed part for replacement.  Same as the
name-branders do;  really failed PC parts DO NOT GET REPAIRED;
just replaced, with whoever does the replacing eating the cost
(under that heading Provision for Warranties on their balance sheet).

>
>But yes, let's talk about repairs. 
>
>How many clone makers have a coast-to-coast on-site warranty? How many
>clone makers offer *any* kind of on-site service contracts?

Many.  Service organizations such as Honeywell-Bull make service
contracts available on a wide range of hardware.  They usually set
up the deal with the motherboard makers etc. from whom the cloners
buy their parts.  Some clone-makers bundle the service contract
into the system.  Others provide it as an option.  Same as the
name-branders.

>I had a client with a Dell under warranty have his keyboard go blewie.
>Called Dell. Next day there's a Fedex box on hist doorstep with a new
>keyboard, and a prepaid waybill to allow the client to send the old
>keyboard back in the same box. Minimum down time, identical service
>through most of urban Canada, no questions about how the problem
>happened. I have yet to find a clone vendor willing to offer this level
>of service.

Look harder.

>But then, if your own time is worth nothing to you, than the extra
>downtime, and the time you spend hauling the hardware back and forth to
>your clonemaker, is probably a small price to pay for that real bargoon
>you got on the original hardware, eh?

Cheap Shot.
Some name-branders waste your time like this.  So do some
clone-makers.  There are, however, reputable companies in _both_ of
these areas.

>I don't buy cheap hardware because it costs too much.

Cheaper shot.
Cheap cliche'.

>>In a clone, when you
>>want to upgrade from a 386sx to a 486DX, you pull the motherboard out (and
>>sell it) and drop in a 486. You can't do that with most brand name boards,
>
>You don't have a clue what you're talking about. I just did exactly this
>last month in an Everex. Most systems are capable of generic motherboard
>replacement, except for the specialized ones with small footprints.

Try it with a NEC, or a Compaq, or an Olivetti, or an AT&T, or...

I have, on all of the above, and it doesn't work.  The boards are
different, the cases are different, the power supply cables are different,
the serial port connectors are different, and sometimes even the
floppy/hard controllers (often integrated on the motherboard, so you
can't just replace them) are non-standard.

>Besides, you'll notice that there's more to upgrading a PC than just
>upgrading the CPU. The memory has to be faster (throw away all those
>80ns SIMMs), and you need to reduce that I/O bottleneck (goodbye IDE
>hard disk). You might also need a new power supply for all these new
>components.

A 200W power supply is standard on most clones (bigger than the 150W
supplies seen in some name-brand PCs).  This should run almost anything
you can put in the case -- today's boards are pretty low power.

Many clone-makers put 70ns or better RAM in now.  And at least they
use SIMMs, while a number of name-branders still solder SIPPs to
the motherboard.

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