HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dbrus.Unify.Com.ceb@unify.uucp (Caroline E. Bryan)
Subject: user perception of performance change
Reply-To: dbrus.Unify.Com.ceb@unify.uucp (Caroline E. Bryan)
Organization: Unify Corporation, Sacramento, CA, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 00:00:52 GMT

Can anyone here quote me a percentage of how much faster (or slower)
throughput must be before the "typical" (whatever that is) user will
notice a difference?  Source of number would also be nice.

If this has been talked to death recently please forgive me:  I only started
reading this newsgroup this afternoon (Sep. 3) when a performance spec here
failed to give a number.  Feel free to email if you'd rather not post --


Carrie		ceb@rechenau.unify.com	x6244
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Ferengi: any senate subcommittee - Susan Atwater (Star Trek crew from Hell) |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: spitzak@gree.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Spitzak)
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Date: 1 Sep 1992 07:13:32 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: spitzak@gree.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: gree

In article 3218@isgtec.isgtec.com, mike@isgtec.com (Mike Sellers) writes:
>spitzak@gree.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Spitzak) writes:
>> I described a box-less 2-color GUI...

>How many of the users of this UI (and the product behind it) could be
>considered novices (either with computers or in the domain)?  If there
>are very many at all, then your desire to provide a "simpler" interface
>may be misplaced -- the UI should serve the needs and desires of the *users*
>not the developers, no matter how silly you may think their needs are.

The users and testers were not computer novices.  The software (a terminal
emulator) was pretty useless for novices.

>> (about how buttons and text fields looked the same, and clicking on them
>> could differentiate them).

>This is a *classic* misunderstanding about UIs and the user.  Listen closely:
>
>  MOST PEOPLE *WILL NOT* TRY SOMETHING THAT THEY ARE UNSURE OF, NO MATTER 
>                         HOW HARMLESS IT APPEARS.

True.  In fact I was trying to make up reasons why the interface worked.  It
worked, but certainly not because people clicked on things randomly.

>> this system to many people, most did not even notice that they were not using
>> the NeXTStep interface, despite the total dissimilarity of the graphics, and
>> none had any trouble updating the data in a panel.
>
>By what measure?  Did you silently observe them?

Once I showed them how to bring up the panel (a NeXT Step thing, you had to pick
an item off the menu), I would say something like "set the parity to even and
change the initizing string to say "foo bar", and they would blindly do this,
hitting the word "even" to highlight it and clicking on the "initialization
string" and typing "foo bar".  They would then usually become stuck when the
trying to figure out how to make the changes take affect (pushing the "ok"
button, which was 3D, though I doubt a 2D one would be better).



Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
From: Peter.Gorny@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de (Peter Gorny)
Subject: Re: Knobs are better than sliders
Organization: University of Oldenburg, Germany
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 15:09:57 GMT

bubba@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Gary Beason) writes:

>Now, one advantage of sliders for recording is that the operator can
>more easily mark (say with a piece of tape with writing out to the
>side) alternative levels.  Knobs  don't allow such easy marking
>(although using a notebook is an idea).
Knobs have the disadvantage that it is more difficult to read the
current value they are set to.
You have to find the possible min- and max-positions and then estimate the
present setting. The estimate is impossible with freely rotating knobs,
i.e. with a rotational range of more than approx. 270 degrees.
Consequently knobs of this type have to be connected with a digital
display.
(BTW: The digital presentation of a (analog) value (a measured value) 
gives a wrong notion of the character of the value: it doesn't  imply
a feedback of the measurement tolerance. Example: ask children accustomed
to digital watches what time it is. They will mostly answer something
such as "six - fourteen", while users of analog watches will more likely
answer "a quarter past six". The latter implies that time is difficult to
measure, and watches difficult to set accurately.)

A slider gives a better recognizable feedback of its present setting.
(Imagine a multichannel soundmixer with knobs - i.e. rotational poten-
tiometers - only...)
For this reason of direct visual feedback I prefer sliders also on
GUIs, inspite of the fact that their control with a mouse is more 
difficult because of the micromotoric control of the hand.

Peter Gorny

.     ________________________________________________________
      Snail-Mail:    P.O.Box 2503 - D-2900 Oldenburg - Germany 
      Voice:            +49-441-798-2901 or -4521 (Fax: -2155)
      E-Mail:     Peter.Gorny@arbi.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE 
                                         040003@DOLUNI1.bitnet 
                                              gorny@uniol.uucp
      ________________________________________________________

Newsgroups: comp.human-factors,comp.windows.misc,comp.windows.x
From: jefft@athena.mit.edu (Jeff Tang)
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 04:36:12 GMT


I'm curious about all this argument, because the disadvantages/advantages
of the two interfaces seem fairly obvious.  Please remember that these are
general features of the two, I'm sure you can find one or two
counter-examples.  Also, this also doesn't really apply to poorly designed
interfaces which have the advantages of neither GUIs or CLIs

GUI: Reduces the learning curve.  Instead of making the user remember lots
of sometimes obscure commands and keystrokes, the abilities of the package
are laid out in an obvious easy to access place.  There's less need to
constantly access a manual, or help screen.  A well designed interface can
also help demonstrate particular concepts/features of a package.

CLI: Much harder learning curve.  Initally, there needs to be a lot of
reference to documentation.  However, after the application is learned, the
time and user movement needed to access these commands is greatly reduced.
More complicated and powerful commands are available with so many options
that would clutter any GUI, or concepts that simply can't be efficiently
communicated via a graphical interface.


The result?  GUIs are a better choice for casual users, and those less
proficient at computers.  Anyone who spends a lot of time using an
application would do well to learn some CLI, or at least the kayboard
shortcuts.  

I know several power users who have customized there accounts and
appliations to the point where in a full xsession, there is little or no
need for a mouse.  It is unquestionably faster and more convenient to do
things this way, once you put the commitment into learning the interface.
--
Jeff Tang
jefft@athena.mit.edu
From: mike@isgtec.com (Mike Sellers)
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Date: 29 Aug 92 17:38:22 GMT
Organization: ISG Technologies Inc., Mississauga Ontario

Please note that I've cut the distribution down to just the HCI group.

rjc@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Caley) writes:
> In article <1992Aug26.175124.19683@twg.com>, David Herron (dh) writes:
> dh> throw away the 3d borders and use a Mac (pre System 7) or
> dh> something written with Athena Widgets.  How does the user tell the
> dh> difference between a button and a text entry box?  They both look
> dh> *the* *same* (a box with text inside).
> 
> Only if you make them look the same. It may be a bit of a pain that
> the default for teh Athena widgets is the least common denominator for
> all of them, but it is reasonably trivial for application programmers
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ahahahaha!  This is the sort of thing that techies say to users who can't
figure out how to change things or don't want to waste their time doing so.
Just like when mathematicians say that something can be reduced to a 
previously solved equation, as a way of making non-mathematicians look
stupid.

> to set things up better in an app-defaults file. It's also easy for
> support staff to set up global defaults to get the same for naive
> users. 

What happens (in the majority of cases) where there *is* no support
staff?  Also, attractive UIs, 3D or not, are NOT just for novices.
I think it was Stuart Card who noted that one of the prime goals of any
UI should be to off-load the user's cognitive system, such that they have
more of their attention free for the task that they are trying to perform.
One good way to do this is to move as much of the necessary object
recognition as possible to the sensory and perceptual channels; this is
one of the primary benefits of 3D-like UIs.  When it's done well, this
graphical element is not just fluff.

> In no way does any application need pseudo three-d weirdness just to
> tell a button from a text entry field. 

No, no application does -- but some users do.  Which are you more
concerned about?

> rjc@cogsci.ed.ac.uk
--
              Mike Sellers      User Interface Team Leader
           mike@isgtec.com      ISG Technologies, Toronto, Canada
              "Actum ne agas" -- Do not do what has been done.
                         Furare tantum ab Optimis
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
From: euaneg@eua.ericsson.se (Nils-Erik.Gustafsson)
Subject: Re: monitors vs paper
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 12:45:45 GMT

tomf@cs.man.ac.uk (Tom Franklin) writes:

>Can anyone provide me with information or references about the comparative
>ease and speed of reading text from monitors and paper.

A very good starting point would be this report
written by Kerstin Frenckner (at the Royal
Institute of Technology in Stockholm):

Legibility of continuous text
on computer screens - a guide
to the literature

Kerstin Frenckner

TRITA-NA-P9010
IPLab-25

Kerstin Frenckner
IPLab, NADA
KTH
S-100 44 Stockholm

(Kerstin's email address is kfrenck@nada.kth.se)

The IPLab has also carried out a number of
experiments within this field of research.

John Gould, at IBM Watson Research Center,
Yorktown Heights, N.Y. has published many
relevant papers and articles, which you
will find referenced in the aforementioned
report. 

Nils-Erik Gustafsson
ELLEMTEL Telecom Systems Labs
Alvsjo-Stockholm, Sweden
From: neil@cadreor.cadre.com (Neil W. Van Dyke)
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
Subject: Moderated Human-Factors Newsgroup
Date: 3 Sep 92 06:20:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: cadreor.1992Sep3.062023.3386
Organization: Cadre Technologies, Inc., Portland Operation

Does anyone else think it would be worthwhile to have a moderated human-factors
group?

I have no formal H-F training, but I appreciate the opportunity to listen in on
discussions among *real* H-F researchers and practitioners, and to ask an
occasional question.

I'm thinking of the sort of atmosphere maintained by John Levine in
"comp.compilers".

Anyone wanna' volunteer to be the moderator?

-- 
Neil W. Van Dyke <> neil@cadre.com <> +1 503 690 1586 <> Fax: +1 503 690 1320
"My employer disclaims that I even work for them, much less speak for them."
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors,comp.infosystems.gis
From: ricardo@colombo.puug.pt (Ricardo Nuno Silva)
Subject: HELP: do you know Paris' Information System ?
Summary: Looking for any information about Paris' Information System
Originator: ricardo@colombo
Keywords: Paris,Information System
Organization: PUUG - Grupo Portugues de Utilizadores de Sistemas UNIX(tm)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 11:30:07 GMT


I'm looking for any information about a Public Information System which was 
installed in Paris about 2 or 3 years ago. 

It provided guidance to get to a certain destination, and indications about
buses or underground trains to take. It could also print those informations
on paper for users to take away.

I read about it in Science et Vie Micro (SVM) I think, but I didn't manage
to find the reference.

I'd like to know who was the manufacturer and how to contact it (to get
more technical details).

Any help is appreciated.

========================================================================
Ricardo Nuno Silva                     | e-mail: ricardo@colombo.puug.pt
Fac. Ciencias da Univ. Lisboa          |
Portugal                               | May the Net be with you ;-)

Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
From: "John Lacey" <johnl@spinner.cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Knobs are better than sliders
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 15:11:02 -0500

morgan@xerox.jts.com (Morgan Jones ) writes:

>A very important consideration left out in this argument is that of
>familiarity.  From birth we deal with rotary devices: door knobs,
>water taps, and radio and television controls to name a few.  In
>contrast, most people would probably be hard pressed to come up with
>an example of a linear control.

Toasters, lawn mower throttles, auto heaters, radio volume, telephone
volume, aircraft throttles.

On the other hand, I tend to agree with Jonathan Egre and say that
consistency is the main reason knobs are preferred.  Sliders will
remain most convenient when direct manipulation is in order (toasters
and mice, and perhaps arguably aircraft thottles, are good examples,
the others are not).

-- 
John Lacey                   `Everything must end; meanwhile we
                              must amuse ourselves.' --Voltaire
From: guido@cwi.nl (Guido van Rossum)
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
Subject: Re: Knobs are better than sliders
Date: 31 Aug 92 15:18:58 GMT

Peter.Gorny@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de (Peter Gorny) writes:

[After a very reasonable explanation why sliders are better because
they give a better indication of their current value than knobs:]

>For this reason of direct visual feedback I prefer sliders also on
>GUIs, inspite of the fact that their control with a mouse is more 
>difficult because of the micromotoric control of the hand.

Huh?  What makes you think that controlling a knob with a mouse is
easier than sliders?  I find the opposite to be true, since you can't
twist the mouse like you would a real knob...

--Guido van Rossum, CWI, Amsterdam <guido@cwi.nl>
"Hello, I would like to buy a fish licence, please."
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
From: asper@sbctri.sbc.com (Alan E. Asper)
Subject: I can't take this anymore
Organization: Southwestern Bell Technology Resources, St.Louis, MO
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 15:55:22 GMT

When I subscribed to comp.human-factors, I believed I would be getting into
some actual dialogs about human factors research. I thought I would 
_learn_ something.

Instead, what I find are sweaty, arrogant computer programmers who (ooooh!)
read the Apple styleguide and (aaaah!) are members of Don Norman's growing
cult of personality. No data, no research, just baseless opinions and a 
conviction that "since I think it is so, and I have worked with these systems,
it is so. And I read POET, so shut up." If I read one more misuse of the term 
"affordance", I'm going to hurl.

So please, if you must go back and forth about your useless notions, create a 
newsgroup called comp.talk.out-of-your-ass. Otherwise, leave this newsgroup
to those who have a genuine interest. 

For the very few comp.h-f subscribers actually in the human factors profession
or who have an interest in the field, I apologize for taking your time. 
I just couldn't take the banality any more.
 
Alan
From: barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin)
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
Subject: Re: Knobs are better than sliders
Date: 27 Aug 1992 16:41:53 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: telecaster.think.com


While everyone is praising the knob, I thought I'd point out its drawbacks
as well.

First, while knobs are often good mechanical interfaces, they often aren't
very good visual interfaces.  Thus, a radio may have a knob to adjust the
tuning, but it will be connected to a linear frequency display.

Knobs aren't very good for complex manipulations.  Remember
Etch-a-Sketch(r)?  It's pretty difficult to draw a diagonal line with its
two-knob interface.  A joystick is much better for that (but they're both
pretty bad when it comes to drawing circles).

-- 
Barry Margolin
System Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.

barmar@think.com          {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
From: lwall@netlabs.com (Larry Wall)
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
Subject: Re: I can't take this anymore
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:57:30 GMT
Organization: NetLabs, Inc.

In article <15268@umd5.umd.edu> ccb@macbeth.umd.edu (Phoenix) writes:
: <sigh>
: 
: Welcome to Usenet, folks. In any unmoderated newsgroup you're going to have
: a low signal to noise ratio. Complaining about it further increases the
: amount of non-topical noise. Most newsreaders have the ability to "kill"
: threads, posts from specific accounts, etc. Grok your newsreader; your
: killfile is your friend -- it will keep you sane.

You can't talk about THAT kind of human-factors engineering in this newsgroup!
It might give people the idea that software geeks are human too.  Horrors.

Larry :-) Wall
lwall@netlabs.com
From: cyberoid@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Jacobson)
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
Subject: Re: Info needed for Interchi 93
Date: 2 Sep 92 20:00:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Sep2.200020.13791
Organization: WORLDESIGN, Seattle



thanks to those who helped out, I received the information I needed.

bob
From: rss@gooey.eng-sun (Rich Scire)
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
Date: 2 Sep 92 18:10:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: fripp.1992Sep2.181011.7151
Reply-To: rss@gooey.eng-sun
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.

I think that Open Look is a much better interface than Motif.  Menu buttons and the ability
to change and save the default menu items makes using Open Look tools much eisier than using
the Motif version of those tools.

I must say however that my favorite Unix based OS user interface was/is the Apollo display
manager.

Rich

---

Rich Scire   DoD #1341            Cadre Technologies
E-Mail:  rss@cadre.com            222 Richmond St., Providence RI  02903
Phone:  (401) 351-5950            FAX: (401) 351-7380
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)
Subject: Re: Knobs are better than sliders
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 02:11:25 GMT
Organization: International Foundation for Internal Freedom

esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) writes:

>Proposed: Knobs are better than sliders

>Given the heavy commitment of modern GUI designers to the mouse, it's not
>at all clear how we can use this insight.  But I thought it was worth raising.

It's called a 'pie menu'.  I've seen it demoed on SUN's NeWS system;
the author won't implement it for X because X sucks.  Calling Don Hopkins!

The idea is you draw a pie chart with one menu item per slice.  It
works best as a pop-up with the mouse at the center of the pie.  You
then move outward from the center to select one item.  You can overload
the pie with many selections:  moving the mouse all the way around
clockwise gets you the second set of menus.  Left & right arrows in the
pie mean that there are more selections available closewise or
counterclockwise.

Pie menus do take up more screen space than rectangular menus,
but generally make more sense.  

-- 

Lance Norskog

Data is not information is not knowledge is not wisdom.
From: esr@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond)
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
Subject: Knobs are better than sliders
Date: 25 Aug 92 18:23:48 GMT

This is my first post to human-factors, so please forgive if I'm rehashing
the already-known.

I was in the shower with my girlfriend this morning, and happened to be in
a Zenlike notice-everything mood when she adjusted the water temperature.  Split
seconds later I'd flashed on some experiences of my own with rotary and other
kinds of controls, and formulated a theory which she and I discussed with some
enjoyment while towelling each other off.

Proposed: Knobs are better than sliders

Argument: Human beings have much better control of (and proprioceptive memory
for) wrist rotations than they do for arm movements.  (My girlfriend contributed
the guess that the evolutionary reason for this is probably specialization
for precise throwing ability.  When you throw a rock or a spear, you push with
the arm and shoulder, but you refine your aim with the wrist),

Evidence: human being routinely perform and remember rotary motions down to
a degree or so of precision *without looking at the knob*.  Corresponding
linear motions (on a scale of a millimeter or less) don't seem to be
repeatable without visual feedback.

Given the heavy commitment of modern GUI designers to the mouse, it's not
at all clear how we can use this insight.  But I thought it was worth raising.
-- 
					Eric S. Raymond <esr@snark.thyrsus.com>
From: shafer@CS.ColoState.EDU (spencer shafer)
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
Subject: Standards related to VDUs, stress, etc.
Date: 4 Sep 92 14:31:08 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

is anyone familiar with any standards related to video display units 
(emission limitations, glare, etc.) or any standards the intent of which
are to reduce or eliminate stress induced by keyboarding and the like.
These could be state or federal standards.  Would like to know the 
range of standards in order to select the applicable ones for our
procurement.
Is there a federal or state agency that handles such?

Thanks in advance.

-- 
/\__________________________________________________________________/\
||                     SPENCER SHAFER                               ||
|| email:shafer@handel.cs.colostate.edu    Work Phone: 303-498-0901 ||
\/------------------------------------------------------------------\/
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors
Subject: Re: GUIs Considered Harmful
From: alanb@sdl.mdcbbs.com (Alan Braggins)
Date: 04 Sep 92 18:07:59 GMT
Organization: Shape Data (Division of EDS), Cambridge UK
In-reply-to: mathew@mantis.co.uk's message of 2 Sep 92 15:02:28 GMT

>>>>> On 2 Sep 92 15:02:28 GMT, mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) said:
> Well, can you think of things which one might plausibly want to do which are
> inherently unsuitable for a GUI?  Not things which current GUIs don't do, I
> mean things which are genuinely not amenable to point-and-click solutions.

nice find ~ '(' -name core -o -name a.out -o -name junk -o -name n_junk \
                -o -name foo -o -name '#*#' -o -name '*%' -o -name '*.bak' \
                -o -name '*~' ')' \
              -atime +2 -mtime +2 -user $USER -type f -size +1c -exec rm '{}' \; >&/dev/null &

Any script making heavy use of if/case/for etc., especially when being run by cron.
--
Alan Braggins, Shape Data (A Division of EDS Ltd), Cambridge, UK +44-223-316673
   "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
 "My employer does not necessarily share my views - but I'm working on it."
Xref: sparky comp.human-factors:1870 comp.software-eng:3298
From: rss@gooey.eng-sun (Rich Scire)
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors,comp.software-eng
Subject: HCI Conferences
Date: 25 Aug 92 16:29:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: fripp.1992Aug25.162955.22070
Reply-To: rss@cadre.com
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.


---

Hi,

Could someone send me info in the SIGCHI and NCGA conferences?  Where, when etc?

Thanks,
Rich

---

Rich Scire   DoD #1341            Cadre Technologies
E-Mail:  rss@cadre.com            222 Richmond St., Providence RI  02903
Phone:  (401) 351-5950            FAX: (401) 351-7380
Newsgroups: comp.human-factors,alt.folklore.computers