HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: holmes@garnet.idbsu.edu (Randall Holmes)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: Boise State University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 22:09:41 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.191208.28751@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>Isaac Balbin writes:
>>Stan Krieger writes:
[...]
>>>Maintain your theological conviction all you want, but don't forget
>>>the REALITY that what you observe as Judaism is one of several
>>>LEGITIMATE interpretations of what God expects of US, the Jewish
>>>people.

If this is true, then Orthodoxy is false, and thus not a legitimate
interpretation of anything.

[...]

>
>No, you don't have to accept every "strain"; all you have to accept is
>that your INTERPRETATION of what God expects of us is just one of
>SEVERAL valid, legitimate, interpretations.  As I've often said,
>if you don't want to recite Kaddish in a Conservative synagogue,
>that's your right, but it's not your right to advise someone that the
>mitzvah wasn't met because they recited Kaddish in a minyan of 6 other
>men and 3 or more women, nor is it your right to refer to the daughter
>of a women whose conversion to Judaism was handled by a Bet Din of
>Conservative Rabbis, and who is trying to get your son to notice her,
>as "the shikse".

He cannot accept that because, if it is correct, Orthodoxy is false.
Orthodoxy cannot define itself as one of many legitimate
interpretations of what God requires of us; this denies its
fundamental principles.  Because of this fact about Orthodoxy, you
cannot really consistently accept Orthodoxy as a legitimate
interpretation of what God expects of us, either.

I am not Orthodox, and I accept the logical consequences.

>
>-- 
>Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
>UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
>Summit, NJ
>smk@usl.com


-- 
The opinions expressed		|     --Sincerely,
above are not the "official"	|     M. Randall Holmes
opinions of any person		|     Math. Dept., Boise State Univ.
or institution.			|     holmes@opal.idbsu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: johnson@itzb.com
Subject: Shalom
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:36:51 GMT
From: tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Marc Blitzstein
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 16:15:38 +0100
Organization: "The Private site of Manfredo Tichauer"

ptyaxel@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Seymour Axelrod) writes:

> 
> This inquiry has nothing to do with OCR issues, Zionism, racism, sexism, or 
> anything else I've seen here recently.  But it *does* seem to do with "soc.
> culture.jewish".  
> 
> 	Marc Blitzstein was a composer-lyricist back in the l930s-'50s.  He 
> wrote a couple of operas with a left-wing slant, e..g., "The Cradle Will 
> Rock", and also an opera ("Regina") based on Lillian Hellman's "The Little 
> Foxes."  He may be best known for his English book & lyrics to the Weill-Brec
> "Threepenny Opera", wildly popular in the '50s (Louis Armstrong's version of 
> "Mack the Knife" used Blitzstein's version.)  I have been told that Blitzstei
> died violently.  Can anyone on s.c.j. provide information on this?  (If this 
> the wrong newsgroup, where else might I inquire?)  Thanks.

   He died on the island of Martinique of head injuries suffered in an attack
   by a group of sailors(1964).

   
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Manfredo Tichauer M.                       EMAIL : tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
  Opitzstrasse 14                            VOICE :     (++ 49 40)  27.42.27
  2000 Hamburg 60 - GERMANY                  FAX   :     (++ 49 40) 270.53.09
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: arto@leland.Stanford.EDU (Artavazd Khachikian)
Subject: Re: Argic slaughtered thousands of Jews and Muslims in the course...
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 01:24:10 GMT



	Argic, you are wrong. You shouldn't have done it.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast
From: cza@troy.cc.bellcore.com (C. Akgun)
Subject: England vs. Turkiye (U21)
Organization: BCR, NJ-USA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 13:08:06 GMT

Young Turks have beaten England U21 team with a score of 1-0.  
The goal came at 75' by Cafer from Genclerbirligi
(Ankara).

Cengiz Akgun
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast
From: emev02@castle.ed.ac.uk (H Oral)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: KURANDAKI LAUBALI AYETLER (part II)
Date: 23 Nov 92 10:04:44 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Nov23030420.AA29950@me.unda.edu> kg+02@me.unda.edu (Kaya Guralp) writes:
>
>  2 Ey inananlar! SESLERINIZI, PEYGAMBERIN SESINI BASTIRACAK SEKILDE
>    YUKSELTMEYIN. Farkina varmadan, islediklerinizin bosa gitmemesi icin,

Hem bedevi bedevi diye asagilarsiniz, hem de isinize gelince
bu adamlari sanki terbiye etmek hic gereksizmiscesine bu tip
ayetlere karsi cikarsiniz. Yaradan'a inanmayip daha sonra
"Vallahi" diyerek yemin eder gibi.
Bugun bile maalesef bu ayetten payini alamayanlarla bir konusma 
sohbet yapmaya kalksaniz sesini yukseltip lafi bolenler mi
dersin, yoksa bagirarak hicte mantikli olmayan tezini hakli
cikarmaya calisanlar mi dersin...  Demek ki bu ayetler gerekli
ve Peygamber'in kendi kendini tatmin icin kendisinin ettigi
laflar degil, Cenabi Hak'kin bizlerin egitimi, iyiligi ve faydasi icin
ongordugu ayetler.  

Sinifta hic sesini ogretmenden daha yuksek cikaran iyi ogrenci
gordun mu hic?

Babasiyla konusurken sesini ondan daha mi yuksek cikaran cocugu
hakkinda iyi seyler dusunur musun?

>  4 Ey Muhammed! SANA ODALARIN OTESINDEN SESLENENLERIN COGU AKLETMEYEN
>    KIMSELERDIR.
>  5 Eger onlar, sen yanlarina cikincaya kadar sabretselerdi, suphesiz onlar
>    icin daha iyi olurdu. Allah bagislayandir, merhamet edendir.

Ne babaya ne de ogretmene bu sekilde davranilmayacagini Islamdan
bihaber olanlarin bazilari bile farkinda. Sen ise farkinda degilmis gibi
davraniyorsun?

>saygilarimla

Inanmasi guc.

Hamid
From: serdar@fawlty8.eng.monash.edu.au (Serdar Boztas)
Subject: Dunya Gencler Futbol Sampiyonlugu Finalleri 
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 00:23:48 GMT

Dunya Gencler Futbol Sampiyonasi finalleri kuralari (rec.sport.soccer'den)

The Draw for the world youth championships to be held
in Australia in March '93, was carried out on Friday night in Sydney.
	
	Group 1 (Held in Sydney and Canberra)

1. Australia
2. Colombia
3. Russia
4. Africa2


	Group 2 (Held in Melbourne)

1. South Korea 
2. England 
3. Turkey
4. United States 

	Group 3 (Held in Adelaide)

1. Mexico
2. Norway
3. Brazil
4. Saudi Arabia


	Group 4 (Held in Brisbane)

1. Portugal
2. Germany
3. Uruguay
4. Africa1

Not: Turkiye-Ingiltere 7 Mart'ta Melbourne'da karsikarsiya gelecekler.
Gecen haftaki maci Turkiye 1-0 kazanmisti hatirlayacaksiniz...

Bu macta seyirci avantajinin Turkiye'de olacagini tahmin ediyorum,
Melbourne'da 20 bin civarinda Turkiyeli var.

Serdar
-- 
Inhabited by absurd fears,  they only discuss  the puerilities with which 
every fool is familiar, and dare not, by turning a bold hand to the human 
heart, offer its gigantic idiosyncrasies to our views.     Sade, 'Justine'
Serdar Boztas \\ serdar@fawlty1.eng.monash.edu.au \\ +(61)3-565-5722 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: suley@bilbo.uio.no (Suleyman Kondakci)
Subject: Re: CEVAP: LAIKLIGIN Teo...  
Reply-To: suley@bilbo.uio.no (Suleyman Kondakci)
Organization: University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 11:18:32 GMT

In article <10292319.80645.18565@kcbbs.gen.nz>,
Hakki_Kocabas@kcbbs.gen.nz (Hakki Kocabas) writes:
>   
> > 1985 yilinda yazilmis olan bu yazida yukarida ki cumlelerden bir   
>                                                    ^^^^^  
> > seyler anlayan varsa beri gelsin.  Yazarin bu tip kelimeler   
>                                                 ^^^ ^^^^^^  
> > kullanmasinin uc mantikli nedeni olabilir:  
>                    ^^^^^^  
> >   
> > 1) Ya oz-Turkce konusunda yeterli bilgisi yok ve Arapca yada
Farsca'yi   
> > cok iyi bildiginden arada bir bu lisanlardan kelime ithal ediyor,  
>                                    ^^^^^       ^^^^^^ ^^^^^  
> >   
> > 2) Veya bu kitabin hitap ettigi insanlarin hepsi guzel ve sade
Turkce'miz   
>              ^^^^^   ^^^^^        ^^^^^  
> > yerine arapca ya da  Farsca kullanmayi aliskanlik haline getirmis  
>                                                     ^^^  
> > orumcek kafalilar,  
> >   
> > 3) yada yazar, yabanci kelimeler kullandigi icin hitap ettigi toplum
>                          ^^^^^^                    ^^^^^  
> > kesimi tarafindan "Aaa dedigi hic bir seyi anlamiyorum demek ki
onemli   
> > bir seyler soyluyor olmali..." diye dusundurtmek icin.  
>       ^^^  
> >   
> >   
> > Turk alfabesinin degismesinden ve de sade Turkce kelimelerin o
agdali   
>                                                    ^^^^^^  
> > arpca-farsca kelimelerin yerini almasindan bunca yil gecmesine
ragmen   
>                ^^^^^^  
> > bazi insanlarda koru korune hala bu tip anlasilmaz lisan kullanma
egilimi   
>        ^^^^^^                         ^^^            ^^^^^  
> > olmasi, 21. yuzyila dunya ulkeleri arasinda gelismis milletler   
>                       ^^^^^                            ^^^^^^  
> > seviyesinde girmeye calisan ulkemiz adina uzucu.  
> >   
> >   
> >   
> > 21. yuzyila girerken "Medeniyet dedigin tek disi kalmis canavar"  
>                         ^^^^^^^^^  
> > kafasinin degistirilmesi gerektigi apacik.  
> >   
> >   
> > Emre  
> >   
> >   
> >   
> > NE MUTLU TURKUM DIYENE....                    M.Kemal ATATURK   
>                                                   ^^^^^  
>   
> lan Emre, bu ne agdali laf-i-guzaf,  
> dediklerini anladiysam arap olayim.  

	Yeniden arap olmana ne gerek var acaba?
>   
> >   
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: guncer@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Otomatik Portakal )
Subject: Re: Ata-turk - Trator or Ok dude?
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:02:38 GMT



In article <22820.9211201237@thor.cf.ac.uk>, spebcg@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr B G Cetiner 92) writes:
> Subject: Re: Ata-Turk - Trator or Ok dude?
> 
> |Turkey is and has been 97% Muslim.  The state is secular, yet the people
> |identify themselves as Muslim.  Mosques remain open and well-attended
> |and the call to prayer can be heard throughout the country.  That there
> |is religious freedom and abeyance to Islam is not reinforced, is in my
> |opinion, one of Turkey's greatest strengths.  
> 
> It depends on what you understand from religious freedom. If you are 
> a Yahova Witness (I am not sure about name) then you are free to do
> what you like. If you are a jew or a christian, then you are free again.

BULLSHIT! Jehowah's Witnesses are subject to religious discrimination
in Turkey like elsewhere in the Islamic world. You sir, by trying to
propagate misinformation like this, is just being instrumental in 
outlawing religious beliefs which doesn't conform to yours.

There have been numerous reports of Christians being denied even
constructing their old churches. This is religious barbarism (ofcourse,
you have similar incidents elsewhere in xtian countries - take one
hit it on the other:-)).
 
> But if you are a muslim then there is a question there. Sometimes 
> you are free(!) sometimes not. If you are a muslim girl and want to
> go to university then you are not allowed to cover your head (which
> is one of the basic institutions in Islamic belief). Because you are
> considered to have relationship with the enemies (what a big logic) 
> without any evidence at all.  But one can cover her head if she is 
> uneducated, housewife or working in an unskilled job. The more you
> educated the more dangerous you are (another big logic, woooow!). 

The Turkish state is a major instigator of Islamic fundamentalist
crap on the people through partisan infiltration.

As for "covering the head" goes, I see it ridiculous to prohibit
it at some places. However, I find the imposition of the 
hijab on women not only "ridiculous", but as a transgression against
humanity in its most repulsive form -  the abusing of women.

> As far as the mosques are considered, they are all open in all
> Islamic world. But let me ask you a question ...

Even this statement is false. Sunni fascists seemingly have a God-given 
right in discriminating Alevis.  

> DO YOU THINK ISLAM IS ALL ABOUT TO GO TO MOSQUE AND PRAY?
> 
 
Do you think whining over the net will grant you more oppurtunities
to exploit people, especially women?

> |regards,
> |Deniz Akkus deniz@ctr.columbia.edu 
> 
> regards 
> Beytullah

Selim Guncer
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: kan gruplari hakkinda  
From: Hakki_Kocabas@kcbbs.gen.nz (Hakki Kocabas)
Date: 24 Nov 92 17:09:20 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand

> > >Selim Guncer  
  
> Islerimi "tanri vardir" gibi bir onermeye dayayamam, cunku herhangibir  
> kaniti yapilmis degil. Eger inancimi (ve rengimi) soruyorsaniz, agnostikim. 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  
neyin, nasil 'kaniti' yapilmasi gerekse...?! bir soyle de bilelim ...  
sanki 'neyin' kaniti yapilirsa 'agnostik' olmaktan donecek misin ?  
soyle bakiim bana yavrum neyin ne gibi bir kaniti seni 'agnostik' olmaktan   
caydiracak ?  
  
> Eger yaratici bir tanri varsa, ki bunun gerekli oldugu bile kanitlanmis  
  
sen bu 'kanit' kelimesini oralarda boyle ulu orta kullanma, seni tefe   
koyarlar...  
  
> degil, herhalde bu tanri kullari icin yok sunu yeme, yok sunu icersen  
  ^^^^^  
> cehennemde kezzap icersin, seni cennette istedigin kadar sevisebilecegin  
> bakire huriler bekliyor, karilarinla su plana gore cinsel iliskide bulun-  
> malisin, sort giyemezsin, kadinlar baslarini kapatmak zorunda, iki kadinin  
> sahitligi bir erkegin yerine anca gecebilir vs vs vs vs vs bilumum deli  
> sacmasi onermelerde bulunduguna inanacak derecede allahasukur beynimi  
> yikatmadim.   
  
fakat bu onermelerde bulunmadigi sacmasina hemen inaniverdin...ve de  
utanmadan bir de ben 'agnostik'im diyorsun...  
sakin bu sacmalarini 'agnostik'lere aciklama sana popolariyla gulerler...  
'Agnostik' olacaksan 'agnostik'ligini bil, bize burada 'agnostik'likten   
buyuk laflar etme...  
  
> Tepki gosterdigim olay birtakim militan ruhlu saskinlarin  
> bu yuzden kendi sapik ahlak anlayislarini bana ve baskalarina empoze etmeye 
> yeltenmeleri.   
  
senin gibi 'agnostik' ruhlu saskinlarin 'agnostik' ahlak anlayislarini   
bu sapikliktan uzak tutma...bu saskin anlamazliklarini bana ve  
baskalarina empoze etmeye yeltenme...  
  
> Bu dusunceler ise bana ozgu degil, buyuk bir kitle tarafindan,  
> belki de sizce de benimsenen fikirler.    
  
hayir bizce benimsenen fikirler degil..  
  
evet, kim bilir belkide buyuk bir 'agnostik' kitle tarafindan   
benimsenmektedirler. 'Agnostik'lere sor da yanitini al...  
  
> O yuzden bu netteki polemiklere "bilmeden" dalmayin.   
  
sanki sen bilerek daliyormussun gibi :->  
  
> Iyi gunler,  
>   
> Selim Guncer  
  
sen bu 'dil'le buralarda ne martaval tahsil ediyorsun acaba?  
seni bu 'dil'le buraya gonderenin....  
herif bir de adini "otomatik"'e cikarmaz mi ?!  
Organization: Doctoral student, Chemistry, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 13:41:25 -0500 
From: Mustafa Unlu <mustafa+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re:Ata-turk - Trator or Ok dude?

spebcg@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr B G Cetiner 92) writes:
> 
> As far as the mosques are considered, they are all open in all
> Islamic world. But let me ask you a question ...
> 
> DO YOU THINK ISLAM IS ALL ABOUT TO GO TO MOSQUE AND PRAY?
> 
> 
> |regards,
> |Deniz Akkus deniz@ctr.columbia.edu 
> 
> regards 
> Beytullah

Ok, I'll bite....

What *is* Islam about? Tell us so that we may be enlightened.

Eagerly awaiting your reply-

M.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:11735 talk.politics.mideast:22265 talk.politics.soviet:8986 soc.culture.greek:10675 soc.culture.europe:9629 soc.history:9542 soc.culture.yugoslavia:9571
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,talk.politics.cis
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Back to Azeri genocide.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 22:08:46 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1992Nov17.021817.17028@leland.Stanford.EDU> arto@leland.Stanford.EDU (Artavazd Khachikian) writes:

>	Besides, Armenia, involved in the Karabakih conflict with Azerbaijan,
>was engaged in yet another field of tactical maneuvring - Azerbaijan
>was largely relying on the old Communist corps and the Center, Armenia - on the

Some weed.

CIS Commander Pulls Troops Out of Karabagh :

"Elif Kaban, a Reuter correspondent in Agdam, reported that after a battle 
 on Wednesday, Azeris were burying scores of people who died when Armenians 
 overran the town of Khojaly, the second-biggest Azeri settlement in the 
 area. 'The world is turning its back on what's happening here. We are dying 
 and you are just watching,' one mourner shouted at a group of journalists."
 Helen Womack
 The Independent, 2/29/92

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)


Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: trh@jack.sns.com (Al Trh)
Subject: Re: Ata-Turk - Trator or Ok dude?
Organization: Systems'n'Software
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 17:38:11 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.125838.23576@comp.lancs.ac.uk> ega029@comp.lancs.ac.uk (Lami Kaya) writes:
>
>
>Muslim girls are banned to enter schools with their scarfs? The security
>forces are well equiped to combat this girls all around university and
>high schools. Many of the girls has been denied to access even in public
>libraries because of their islamic dress code.  Do not mention muslims
>with beard in universities.

Also, moslem men are not allowed to have more than one wife. Nor are they
allowed to marry 9-year-old girls...

So it is obvious that Ataturk and all his followers are traitors to 
Islam!
>
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Lami
>
Vesselam,
AT


Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:11940 talk.politics.mideast:22416 talk.politics.soviet:9101 soc.culture.greek:10828 soc.culture.europe:9756 soc.rights.human:4288
From: kg+02@me.unda.edu (Kaya Guralp)
Subject: ISLAM'DA AKIL KELIMESININ ANLAMI. (genel istek uzerine)
Organization: University of Dakota, School of Engineering
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 06:17:43 GMT

AKIL VE ISLAM
-------------

   Islam icin inanirlari, savunurlari hep "akil dinidir, mantik dinidir"
   derler. Bunu kanitlamaya calisirken, Kuran'daki "akl"dan tureme
   sozcuklerin kullanildigi ve "akli olmayanin dini de yoktur" turunden
   "hadis"leri kanit olarak gosterirler.

   Bir cok sozcuk gibi AKL'in koku de "deve"den gelmektedir. "Ikal"
   Arapca'da "devenin baglandigi (deveyi baglamaya yarayan) iptir". (Bkz
   Arapca sozlukler) Ayet ve hadislerdeki AKLdan tureme sozcukler de bu koke
   dayanir. "Baglamak, alikoymak, hapsetmek" anlamlarini icerir. Ayetlerdeki
   "belki aklederler..." anlamindaki sozlerde gecen "akletmek" de anlamak ve
   "ozellikle Tanrisal konulari dusunmek"tir. Bunun bilinen "akil"la ilgisi
   yoktur.

   "Akli olmayanin dini de yoktur" hadisine gelince. Bu hadisin nice
   benzerleri gibi UYDURMA oldugu kesin olarak belirlenmistir. (Bkz.
   Acluni, Kesfu'l-Hafa, Cilt 2, sayfa 487, hadis no:306)

   Goruldugu gibi ISLAM dini icin "AKIL" degil; "IMAN" gereklidir.

   Ornegin: Fecr Suresinin basinda, Kuran'in "Tanrisinin, insanlari
   dedigine inandirmak icin : "Sabah'a, on geceye, cifte, teke ve gecip giden
   geceye ANTICER. Sonra da soyle der:

     ``Simdi bunlarda, AKIL sahibi icin bir ANTICME degeri yok mudur?''

   Kuran'daki "imana zincirli akil sahibi", bu soruya elbette ki, "EVET"
   diyecektir. Iman zincirinden  kurtulmus ozgur akil ise boyle
   demeyecektir. Ozgur akil icin Tanrinin, sabaha, on geceye, cifte, teke.
   anticmesinin bir deger tasiyacagi soylenebilir mi? Ask ya da nefret
   zincirine vurulmus olan akil nasilsa, "imana zincirli akil" da oyledir;
   eli kolu baglidir. "Akil disi" dendiginde olcu alinan akil bu degildir,
   "ozgur akil"dir.

   Bunlari anlattiktan sonra "BELKI AKLEDERLER....." :->

   saygilarimla
   ------------
   kaya

   Ana Kaynak: Ragip, el Mufredat, AKL maddesine bakiniz.
From: spebcg@thor.cf.ac.uk (Mr B G Cetiner 92)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Ata-Turk - Trator or Ok dude?
Summary: to mucit@cs.rochester.edu (Bulent Murtezaoglu)
Date: 23 Nov 92 21:16:49 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College at Cardiff
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway


- People ought to be able to dress as they wish in public schools (goes
both ways though).  

Just fine

- Religion classes should be elective and be offered to the minorities too.
It already is completely free to the minorities. You can be sure about that.

- All government support for mosques, religious high-schools etc. should
be stopped.  
You don't know anything about mosques. They are all built by the people.
Even for religious high-schools, this is same. What the governments do
is to appoint the imams and teachers to those places where they should
only tell the people OFFICIAL RELIGION. This is the muslims' request in
Turkiye, since a long time, to appoint their own imams and teachers.

- The office of religious affairs should be closed.
  OK. Just close it. But they won't do that. Because they make them give
fetva's when they require. Do you think it would be possible for the 
secular governments? Who will teach Official Islam when it is closed?

- The alphabet stays the same :).
  OK. let it stay same. But leave the muslims alone so that they
  can learn and teach their own script in their school as well as 
  Ladin script.


|What do you think?  I guess I'm after a secular state and freedom
|of religion.  If you want the state to support/implement whatever
|the popular conception of Islam is, we have a problem.  



|   F.R.

|B.M.

Just leave the muslims alone. Do not behave according to the
instructions given by your American big brothers. 

BGC
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: e_alper@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Ozur
Date: 18 Nov 92 13:42:06 -0500
Distribution: world
Organization: Georgetown University

Tekrar (ve belki de son kez) Selamlar

Dun geceyarisi biraz da acele olarak yazdigim Sayin Selman ve 
Beytullah'a hitap eden yaziyi bu sabah biraz daha objektif bir gozle 
inceledigim zaman, yazi da hic geregi yok iken kiskirtici bir dil 
kullandigimin farkina vardim.  Bu yuzden eger bir alinma var ise basta 
Zaman, Turkiye, ve Sizinti okurlari olmak uzere Sn. Selman ve 
Beytullah'in sahsinda ozur dilerim.  Elestiriler gelecekse, 
kullandigim ifade yerine ( "sizin nerede yetistirildiginizi bilmiyorum 
ama.. gibi) vermek istedigim dusunceye yonelik olmasini rica ederim.  Boyle 
akil yerine hislerimle hareket ederek bir sinir harbi baslatmak 
istedigim en son seydir.  Bu yuzden, bundan sonra, senelerce yaptigim 
gibi SCT'yi sadece bir okuyucu olarak takip etmeye karar verdim.  Bu 
cekilis, sadece siyah ve beyaz diye kavga edenler degil, gri'nin de varligini 
kabul edenler SCT'de arttikca degisebilir.  
  
Selamlar, saygilar

Emre


Varsa Vagdir, Yoksa Yogdur,
Turkiye'de petrol vagdi da biz mi ictig?

	        Suleyman Demirel 1988