HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alu@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (Alan Lustiger)
Subject: Re: Intermarriage
Organization: AT&T Engineering Research Center
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 01:58:54 GMT

In article <2AD1E105.6518@ics.uci.edu> mkrawitz@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Marc Krawitz) writes:
>As a young, Jewish college student, I am tired of hearing about attempts
>by other Jews to interfere with healthy, interracial and intercultural
>relationships.  I believe that the needs and desires of the individual
>come before those of his/her culture, and furthermore, I believe that
>any attempts to undermine these rights are unethical.
...
>
>For those of you involved in interracial relationships, I salute
>your courage to stand up to the oppressive elements within the
>global Jewish community.
>
>Marc Krawitz

And I salute you, Marc Krawitz, for having the guts to publicly say
in a Jewish newsgroup that the continued existence of the Jewish
people is of no concern to you, and that your needs outweigh those
of the Jewish community as a whole. It is also refreshing to hear
a Jewish college student explicitly say that the destruction of his
people is "healthy," as interrmarriage is a "fundamental tool"
for reducing racism, cleverly implying that those of us who actually
value the Jewish religion are racists.  (BTW, when did race enter 
the picture? Or do you view Judaism as a race? I think I've heard
that done once before...)

-- 
               		Alan Lustiger
    |_ | |             	AT&T Bell Laboratories ERC, Princeton, NJ
     /   |( 		attmail!alustiger or att!pruxk!alu or lustiger@att.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: chin@minnie.imd.nrc.ca
Subject: Chinese jews
Organization: NRC-Institute for Marine Dynamics
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:12:14 GMT

	Question?

Can some out there on the net give me an introduction to the history of 
the chinese jews?. A reference please?.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: COBOL (was Re: Intermarriage)
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 14:54:22 GMT

In article <GRABINER.92Oct13193833@boucher.harvard.edu> grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner) writes:
>In article <9210122129.AA00645@robocop.NYU.EDU>, Jonathan Baker writes:
>
>> Andrew Solovay writes:
>
>>> The Torah clearly forbids writing in COBOL.
>
>> Where does it say that?  What proof can you bring?  Where do we learn over
>> that COBOL is assur?
>
>Mishnah Fortran 2:5:
>
>Computer programming is work, and must be done without any waste.  Thus
>it is permissible to program in efficient languages, but not in COBOL.
>Rav Watson says: Assembly language is the most efficient language, and
>is thus the only proper language.  But the Sages say: It is not
>efficient to program if there are too many errors.  If one can program
>in assembler, he should, but it is permissible to program in Lisp or C.
>For him, this is not wasteful.
>
>Would anyone like to add some Gemara?

Hahi it'sa ("There was a woman" -- the Gaon's note on the side
identifies her as Rebbitzin Hopper) that said: How do we know that
programming in COBOL as acceptable?  As it is written: "U'tkabel
b'ratzon" -- al tikri U'tkabel, elah v'COBOL.

But the Rabbis replied:  Look at the end of the pasuk, which
specifies "tfilatenu," a hint that COBOL as like tiflut.  The woman
answered "He who teaches his daughter Torah, it is as if she has
taught her tiflut" -- does that mean that teaching a woman COBOL
is like teaching her Torah?

How does one know the restriction against BASIC?  Puk hazi -- 
look at what the people say whenever doing addition, they say
"b'sach hakol", which means that BASIC is "hakol", as in
"hakol hevel."

The Rabbis asked: "In what language should one program?"  And
they answered: "In Forth."  Why?  Because Forth uses reverse
Polish notation, and we ask Hashem for RPN when we say
"r'fa'enu HaShem", which means "G-d, give us RPN."

(Tosafot eliminates PASCAL on the grounds that PASCAL's wager
makes it's statements unreliable for any serious judgment.)


-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: Perot Halts Engagement
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:15:45 GMT


In article <1992Oct5.124812.15752@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
(samuel.saal) says:

>_IF_ this is true, is it a positive comment about Perot?  I'd say so.
>After all, protecting individual traditions, and helping prevent an
>intermarriage is positive as far as I'm concerned.

According to "The Globe and Mail" (not sure of exact date, but about 1
wk ago), Perot used rather underhanded means to break off the
engagement - he "framed" the fiance and blackened his name.

This is clearly not acceptable.  If you want to break an engagement,
you sit down with the people involved and explain your reasons.  You
don't slander someone.

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
From: 2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (corrigible)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: PLEASE! I need your help! Help me keep this love alive!
Date: 11 Oct 92 16:48:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: QUCDN.92285.1248222893684
 <1992Sep30.164424.26578@umbc3.umbc.edu>
 <1992Sep30.173814.27117@cbnews.cb.att.com>
 <1992Sep30.213220.6773@umbc3.umbc.edu> <92277.213725CARIAN@auvm.american.edu>
Distribution: na
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston

On the question of intermarriage and cross-cultural dating. I am of Jewish
descent as are both my parents. On my mothers side of the family, people have
generally married jews, on my fathers side, they generally have not (I just
attended my cousin's wedding to a Portugese Catholic last week) Either way,
it has generally worked out. My relatives who have intermarried and their
children are not lost and confused souls. They have a strong conception of
who they are as individuals and do not suffer from "identity crisis" If
anything, being products of cross-cultural marriages have made them more
cosmopolitan and less ethno-centric and narrow than my full "Jewish" relatives.

People are people. I see no menace in intermarriage and if anything the fear
mongering and venom I get from people in the mainstream Jewish community
(as opposed to my family) whenever I discuss intermarriage and the possibility
that I may follow that route make it less likely for me to want to "marry
inside the community"
From: khb@chiba.Eng.Sun.COM (chiba)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Attending a More Traditional Service
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:58:05
Organization: Sun MegaSystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: chiba
In-reply-to: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu's message of 8 Oct 92 21:41:58 GMT


In article <1992Oct8.214158.25497@umbc3.umbc.edu> shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:

...   Laura, I think that the use of the term "treif" was unfortunate.

Treif is, of course, non-kosher meat (basically something partly eaten
by wild animals ... possibly road kill). Certainly not technically the
right word to use.

I have, over the years, had the pleasure of davening with a diverse
group of people, Yeminites, Hungarians, Litvaks, Moroccans, Hillel
groups, Swedes (yes there *is* a community in Sweden, and it has been
there for a good long time; small though) and many others.

Those that are quick to label a group "trief" tend to have had fairly
limited experience. Even within a totally traditional framework,
customs vary greatly.

Much of the Yom Kippur service is composed of piyyutim which vary the
*most*. 

The most unfortuante thing (IMHO) about services choirs is that it
*often* (but certainly not always) has the effect of turning many of
the congregants into listeners rather than participants. When this
happens (in its most severe form) those accustomed to more traditional
services can feel quite uncomfortable.

As far as language of choice is concerned; while I much prefer to pray
in Hebrew, it is vital that everyone understand the prayers. I have
seen many moving services with considerable English (which should not
be as surprising as it is, Aramaic slipped in when it was the lingua
franca ;>). The CSUN Hillel (during the reign of Rabbi Dan) had a very
nice custom of dovening in English *and* Hebrew simulteanously. There
were enough people comforatable with both to keep things moving, and
with the same tunes. I expected this to be a diaster, but it worked
rather well.

The endless O-R-C-Recon debates sometimes blind us to the diversity
within "O" alone. Perhaps it is not the debate itself, but the
concentration of Americans ... outside of NY and LA, it is very hard
to find much diversity here. Spend a year or more in Jerusalem and
visit a different synagogue every week (and more than one for each
holiday). You won't run out ;>
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Keith H. Bierman    keith.bierman@Sun.COM| khb@chiba.Eng.Sun.COM
SunPro 2550 Garcia MTV 12-40             | (415 336 2648) fax 964 0946
Mountain View, CA 94043  <speaking for myself, not Sun*> Copyright 1992

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: * Yeshu ? *
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:43:51 GMT

dg = gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)

dg: There is no n+1 "coming" for n not equal to zero.
me: must n be an integer?
dg: No.  But it must be real.

Perhaps imaginary values of n are for occasions that the mashiach
almost came but didn't?
-- 
/|/-\/-\       New signature will appear "acharai hachagim"
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org 			Jerusalem
From: sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Adopted children
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:58:33 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <1992Oct15.192444.1052@cbnews.cb.att.com>, ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
> In article <1992Oct15.164731.22793@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:
> >> 
> >> No one today can be 100% sure that they are Cohanim.  It would be a
> >> great mistake for someone to assume that he is a Cohen based on his
> >> last name, and any Rabbi would be sure to point this out.  There is a
> >> family named Cohen in my shul who don't claim to be Cohanim.
> >
> >There are lots of reasons why a Cohen may not be a Kohan, depending
> >on how far back one wants to go.  Some of the more recent ones:
> 
> >2) Getting the name at Ellis Island.  Lots of variants on this one.
> 
> My wife's grandfather(a"h), was given the name "Jacob Cohen."  And my
> wife's mother was Sara Cohen.
> 
> However, Sara's brother, Sol, did some investigating and discovered
> the family name was Kalton --  and so changed his name to Colton.
> One reason is my wife's grandfather insisted he was not a Kohen.
> 
> Perhaps the immigration folks misheard Colton as Cohen.

Sounds like its time to drag out the tale of Sean Ferguson,
the Russian Jew.

I hope there's someone out there that hasn't heard this one.

An elderly Russian Jewish man is standing on line at Ellis Island,
and the official asks him for his name.  The man doesn't speak
english and fumbles for his papers, says (imagine Yiddish here folks)

Vo zind die papirn? ich hab SHOIN VERGESSEN!

"Ah! Sean Ferguson.  Next desk Mr. Ferguson."

(And myriad variants thereupon)

	Seth Rosenthal
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aleks@cray.com (Aleksander Mazur)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: On Polish Anti-semitism
Date: 9 Oct 92 14:33:52 GMT


In article <1992Oct9.020233.28282@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>aleks@cray.com (Aleksander Mazur) writes:
>
>#I remember
>#that even members of Kneset took part together with other religious
>#Jews in action throwing Palestinians out of their homes, setting dynamite
>#and occupying those properties. I cannot imagine anything like that in 
>#Poland, Europe, or America.
>
>It is true that two members of the Theiya party supported settlers
>in a takeover of some houses some years ago. The Theiya party is
>now defunct (meaning its members were not re-elected). The story
>with these houses is more complicated than what you assert, as they
>were bought from their legal owners by the settlers. That is not
>to say I condone their acts.
>

Well, you seem to have slightly different informations than it was
reported by international agencies. The police could remove other
perpetrators except those of the house occupied by members of
Knesset because of their immunity. And as so-called lawful reason
for takeover was quoted Israeli law that allows to take property of
Palestinians if they do not use it for some time. Even that occurred
not so legitimate as police intervened.

>Your assertion that dynamite was used in these cases, and by
>Knesset members, shows that your local pusher sells you really
>good stuff. Maybe take a little pause before you post on a public
>forum, though.
>
Maybe it was not such a pusher that agency after all as even
photographs were shown.

>As for Europe, it has a history a thousand times bloodier than
>Israel, and the present dosen't look too good either. As for the
>US, an ex-Nazi and first class racist recently got 40 percent
>of the votes for governor of Luisiana. So what gives, baby?
>
>-Danny Keren.
>
>
>
In this particular case we are not talking about bloody incident,
maybe we also will get there. What is interesting however in this
case was attitude of lawmakers to take over property. Can you imagine
Polish lawmakers taking over Jewish houses or American lawmakers
taking property of Blacks ? Because I cannot. I still cannot
imagine members of parliament in any European country in actions
like that. Regarding candidate of Luisiana I am not his supporter.
But also probably I have very, very limited knowledge of what
he said so far. The same with Pen in France. So maybe somebody
will quote them so we will be able to compare with what Rabbi
Kahane and his supporters were saying. And at least so far
I had never heard more racist attitude. I will be very interested
in changing my opinion - if somebody can quote more racist
statements. Possibly the most racist statements that they ever
made.

A. Mazur
From: wwalker@bbn.com (Ward Walker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Intermarriage
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:59:46 GMT
Organization: BBN Systems and Technology, Inc.

Some thoughts on intermarriage:

Would a Jew who truely loved living a Jewish life intermarry?  Would a
Jew who loved celebrating Shabbat every week, and all the other Jewish
Holidays, intermarry?  Perhaps so, but I wager such a Jew would think
twice about forming a household with a person who has little or no
interest in these traditions.  (If the potential spouse is very
interested in following Jewish tradition and is therefore probably
willing to convert, the story is different.)

The problem is that many Jews in the USA are living a non-practicing
lifestyle that is barely distinguishable from that of their
non-practicing Christian neighbors.  I know of several Jews who even
celebrate Xmas.  In my mind, it is questionable if the marriage of
such a Jew to a non-practicing Christian can truely be termed
``inter-cultural.''

I believe the high rate of intermarriage is a symptom of the
widespread lack of Jewish practice in homes of Jews.  If one doesn't
care about having a Jewish home --- one where Judaism is practiced, it
doesn't matter if one marries a Jew or not.  A gentile can drive the
kids to Hebrew school just as well as any Jew.  In my opinion,
however, just sending the kids off to Hebrew school is not synonomous
with ``raising the kids Jewish.''  A Jewish home is a necessary
ingredient.

The fact that most Jews interrmarry doesn't make it desirable.  Most
Jews in the USA don't build a sukkah.  Does this mean I should applaud
this and dismantle my sukkah immediately as a statement of solidarity?

I am Reform, by the way.  My definition of a ``Jewish home'' is more
liberal than that of more traditional Jews.  Regardless, a ``Jewish
home'' to me still means much more than merely a house where Jews
happen to live.

I encourage all the non-practicing Jews out there to look into practicing.
Sukkot, which starts this Sunday night, is a wonderful thing, for example.
Too good to pass up if you ask me.

--Ward
Cambridge, Massachusetts
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles)
Subject: Re: sexism
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:47:59 GMT

In article <8CSRBCJ6@cc.swarthmore.edu> mwertz1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Melanie Wertz) writes:
>In article <1992Oct13.225947.27119@tc.cornell.edu>,
>
>	...
>By the way, do you agree that Judaism is sexist?
>

I don't understand why you even bother asking the question. You have
already judged, deliberated, and convicted Judaism long ago, and have
absolutely no more doubt as to your position as the ancients had about
the Earth being flat! After all, it was clearly obvious to ancient man
that the Earth was flat. Sure you might have been able to give them
arguments why it only appeared so, but these arguments are certainly no
more convincing than those who attempted to "defend" Judaism in your
eyes.

No argument will be convincing in the eyes of one who has already made
up their mind.

Hayim Hendeles
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: More Questions
Date: 13 Oct 92 10:32:50 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1992Oct12.191604.9683@techbook.com> bferguso@techbook.com
(Robert Ferguson) writes:

>After reading all the replies that I received on Rabbinical
> literature, I find that I have more questions.
>
>What is considered as inspired by God in all the literature?
> Is it the Hebrew bibl only or is the Mishna (beyond the Torah)
>   included?

>  What about the Gemara,

> this is just commentary is'nt it?
>and the Midrash, are these just commentary only?

Sorry but It looks like you have almost no idea about Mishna, Talmud
and Midrash ( what do you mean by "Midrash" ?)

The idea is that beside the written law G od gave an oral law.
 Through the years things become un certain so you can find contradict
opinions as to what the law in that case or another, In the early
Midrashim the mishna ,the tosefta and the gemara you can find many
opinions , it the Eretz Yisrael talmud and the Babilonian Talmud there
is a lot of effort to clarify things.

> Someone mentioned that liberal Jews do not accept the oral law as
> inspired.

Irrelevant.

>What is the Judaic view of the biblical creation materials?  Is it a
>creationist type outlook or is it all allegorized away?

Since that question has no practical implication it is natural that
there is no " Judaic view" about that question.

It is generaly accepted that the universe was created, but you can
find ancient Jewish opinions that the description should be considered
as allegory and that our world is the result of a developement.
The Geonim ( ~ 600 - 1100 a.c ) wrote that stars are developped in the
milky-way by accumulation of dust.

Ramban ( Nachmanidas ~1200 ac) wrote that the 6 days descriprion means
that simple forms were created before complicated ones : fishes before
birds, and mamals who do not lay eggs - after. and he wrote:

~  "It is impossible to say who G od creat the world so the Tora wrote
     the general idea "

Hag Sameach    gideon


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Israeli stocks on the NYSE
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 20:52:47 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.192814.4578@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> friedenb@silver.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg) writes:
>
>Can anyone post a list of the Israeli companies who trade stock
>on the New York Stock Exchange?
>
>I cannot afford to invest heavily in the Israeli economy, but I have
>a few $ to put into investment.  

Then you might want to buy shares in the Israel Fund - a closed end
mutual fund just now coming to market.  Your broker can get you more
information.  (This is not a financial recommendation for or against
shares of the fund.)
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
From: ce157@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric W. Mack)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Subscribing to soc.culture.jewish
Date: 11 Oct 1992 16:57:13 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


Rumor is that one can subscribe to this newsgroup, much as 1 can
subscribe to mail.Jewish and it arrives in one's mail-
box.  Please advise how to do so.

em
-- 
Piska Tova, Hag Sameah and Mo-adim L'Simha.
Eric Mack and/or Cheryl Birkner Mack
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: The I-can't-believe-they-got-a-hescher-on-this thread
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:53:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Oct8.205324.18322
Distribution: na
Organization: International Irony League -- Death before smileys!

In article <1992Oct8.181138.12717@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>In article <92121@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct8.025759.17993@cbnews.cb.att.com>, ask@cbnews (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>>>Is eating a communion wafer cannibalism?   Until a few months ago, 
>>>the Sisters of Carmel Community of Columbus operated a wafer bakery
>>>less than 2000 feet from my front door.  [...]  If they were certified
>>>kosher, I'd have no problem eating them.
>>
>>Will you be eating Entenmann's Christmas cookies two months from now?
>
>Depends.  Are they any good?

Well, the way I see it, there are two issues for a *sanctified*
communion wafer.

1. If you really believe that the wafer has become the flesh of
   Jesus, then you are performing an action which you believe is
   cannibalism. If you are a Jew, this is definitely sinful. I'm
   not sure if cannibalism is forbidden to goyin. In any event,
   the sin would be in the intent to perform cannibilism, not is
   the eating itself (because it's still bread, even if you think
   it's flesh).

2. According to Catholic belief, a sanctified communion wafer is
   God. Eating it is thus a form of worship of a physical object;
   this is idolatrous for a Jew or a goy. Even if a Jew doesn't
   believe the wafer is God, he is performing an idolatrous
   ritual; this is forbidden whether he believes in it or not.

Note that both of these issues apply only to a *sanctified*
communion wafer (i.e. one which has been transubstantiated
through the Catholic Mass). An unsanctified wafer is just bread;
common sense, science, and Catholic doctrine agree on this.

And BTW: When I kept kosher, it used to really bug me that Easter
candy was never kosher-certified. Y'see, right after Easter it
went on sale...
-- 
Andrew M. Solovay       "Work is the curse of the drinking class."
solovay@netcom.com			--Wilde

#include <disclaimer.h>
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