From: hymowitz@SERVER.CS.JHU.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.censorship
Subject: Point by point (was Re: THE HOAXER PROJECT REPORT)
Date: 17 Apr 92 02:20:35 GMT
Organization: The Incredibly Huge Corporation

eric@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Eric Scott Kuhnen) writes:
>gross@befvax.uchicago.edu writes:
>>Pseudonym?  Ask him who he works for, where he lives, what his job is,
>>what his training is.  No answer.
>But the point is, Ralph never accuses others of using a psuedonym.

becuase we don't.  feel free to finger hymowitz@cs.jhu.edu and you'll
find my real name, a valid po box, my phone number. write to me and see.

>>>:    2. Name calling and labeling
>>>Ralph:      Minimal
>>>Anti-Ralph: Shitbrain, dickhead, nazi trash, etc, etc
>>Ralph refers to all of his enemies as Zionists.  See what names he calls
>>Elie Weisel, Simon Weinsenthal and the ADL.
>The "Anti-Ralph" contingent are far from spotlessness on this point.  Further-
>more, one should be above name-calling and labeling altogether, as this item
>suggests.

hvae you ever tried feeding cough syrup to a three-year-old? you
frequently have to avoid the inevitable argument by hiding it in a bowl
of ice cream or jello.

it's very similar here.  if they won't listen to argument, you have to
sneak the logic into the shouting, which they seem to relate to better.

>>>:    5. Advocacy of double standards
>>See how Ralph and his friends use historical texts.
>In his distortion of historical events, is Ralph advocating a double-standard?

that depends on how you define a double standard.  if they claim that
they can use a paid advertisement as their 'fact', but we can't use
eyewitness testimony as our 'fact', then that's a double standard.

>>>:    6. Tendency to view their opponents and critics as essentially evil
>>>Ralph:       I don't think so
>>>Anti-Ralph:  Assuredly
>>He calls all his enemies Zionist, and says he is anti-Zionist.
>"Zionism" does not carry the stigma of evil that so many of the "Anti-Ralph"
>comments and invective do.

it does when he uses it.  to him, there is an armageddon-like war between
the 'good-guys' (all of whom have accounts at b-cpu) and the
'zionists' (all of us who seem to have misplaced relatives we thought
we had in germany and poland. how careless of us)

>>>:    8. Advocacy of some degee of censorship or repression of their
>>>:       opponents and/or critics
>>>Ralph:      No
>>>Anti-Ralph: Enormously

nobody is denying his right to speak.  we would only like him to speak
(a) people who want to listen and (b) not to people who don't want to
listen.  unfortunately, we are a captive audience because all of usenet
cannot take our censorship discussions to alt.flame or alt.sex.pictures.

we are here because we want to be here, and becuase we have to be here.
he is here because he can force himself on us.

>>>:    9. Tend to identify themselves in terms of who their enemies are:
>>>:       whom they hate and who hates them
>>>Not much of this
>>Bullshit.  They call all their enemies Zionist and call themselves anti-
>>Zionist.  They also call anybody who believes in the truth of the Holocaust
>>"exterminationists", and call themselves "revisionists."  What more do 
>>you want.
>you must also agree that by its very name an "Anti-Ralph" group is defined
>in terms of who it hates and, to a lesser extent, who hates them.

this is too broad.  this could be said of any debate - death penalty,
abortion, bush vs clinton, etc.

>>>:    15. Emphasis on emotional responses and, correspondingly, less
>>>:        importance attached to reasoning and logical analysis
>>>Ralph:      Not guilty
>>>Anti-Ralph: Guilty: name calling, mainly.
>>The 'logical reasoning' in the articles they post is nonsense.  The
>>motivation for the conclusions is hate, not scholarship.
>Yes, Ralph is guilty.  But the real point it, so are you.  [...] The
>various numbered items of this post identify an extremist group.  Perhaps the
>more burning question is, Why?

because six million people died.  isn't this a reason to be emotional?

the point is, they won't listen to reason, and they won't leave us alone.
and they don't believe in logic or reason or truth.

--hymie
hymowitz@cs.jhu.edu                                         hymie@jhuvms.bitnet
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Newsgroups: alt.censorship