HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.turkish
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: "Arromdian of ASALA/SDPA/ARF" and the genocide of 2.5 million Muslims.
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 93 16:01:10 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1992Dec30.032858.25849@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:

>One reason Argic does it is that people believe him, or at least believe in
>some equality between his posts and the posts of his opponents:  even those

So "Arromdian" is still in charge of the laundry at "ASALA/SDPA/ARF". Poor 
soul. During the years of World War I, the Armenian dictators have planned
and perpetrated the genocide of the Turkish people, which not only took 
the lives of 2.5 million Muslims, but was also the method used to empty
the Turkish homeland of its inhabitants. To this day, Turkish historic
lands remain occupied by the Armenian government. In order to cover up 
the fact of its usurpation of the historic Turkish homeland, which is the
crux of Turkish political demands, x-Soviet Armenia continues its 
anti-Turkish policy in the following ways:

1. x-Soviet Armenia denies the historical fact of the Turkish Genocide
in order to shift international public opinion away from its political
responsibility.

2. x-Soviet Armenia, employing pseudo-scholars, ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism
and Revisionism Triangle, and terrorists attempts to call into question 
the veracity of the Turkish Genocide.

3. x-Soviet Armenia has also implemented state-sponsored terrorism through
the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism Triangle in an attempt to 
silence the Turkish people's vehement demands and protests.

4. Using all its human, financial, and governmental resources, x-Soviet
Armenia and its tools in the United States attempt to silence through
terrorism, bribery and other subversive methods, non-Turkish supporters
of the Turkish cause, be they political, governmental and humanitarian.

Using all the aforementioned methods, the x-Soviet Armenian government 
is attempting to neutralize the international diplomatic community from
making the Turkish Case a contemporary issue.

Yet despite the efforts of the x-Soviet Armenian government and its terrorist
and revisionist organizations, in the last decades, thanks to the struggle 
of those whose closest ones were systematically exterminated by the Armenians,
the international wall of silence on this issue has begun to collapse, and 
consequently a number of governments and organizations have become 
supportive of the recognition of the Turkish Genocide.

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
From: revans@euclid.ucsd.edu (Ron Evans)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Resisting occupation
Date: 23 Dec 92 22:57:24 GMT

<1992Dec23.153301.25620@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
>	1)  As Palestinians are not given equal rights, they should
>	randomly kill Israeli soldiers in the territories until
>	they are treated equally.
>	2)  As the Bahai's are not given equal rights, they should
>	randomly kill Iranian soldiers until they are treated
>	equally.
>	3)  As Iraqi Kurds  are not given equal rights, they should
>	randomly kill Iraqi soldiers in Kurdistan until
>	they are treated equally.

...many of the Palestinians currently under the
domain of Israel fell into this position by land conquest in war.
                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	We are living in a country formed this way.  Islam was
	spread this way.  Almost all countries were formed this
	way.  Should native Americans be encouraged to randomly
	kill U.S. soldiers until they are given equal rights?


Soldiers are the direct instrument used by Israel to maintain this
position. They are reasonable targets. Similarly, I would agree in the
case of 3, although their position came about not so much as a result of
occupation as a development in the policy of the Iraqi government. 

	This is the first time I have seen here an endorsement of
	the random killing of Iraqi soldiers in Kurdistan.  
	The killing of Israeli soldiers is exhorted here constantly.
	What is the reason for this double standard?

With regard to 2, I do
not think that killing Iranian soldiers would yield the desired effect
since Iranian soldiers are not involved (I suppose this is only
partially true since the police and military in Iran are branches of the
same organization, unlike in the U.S.). 

	Let me rephrase the question then.  Should the Bahai's
	engage in the random killing of Iranians in the groups 
	DIRECTLY involved in their persecution?


Neither the Kurds, the
Bahais, or the Palestinians have any "right" to expect an autonomous
state.

	I think it is high time that the Kurds and the Palestinians
	had autonomous states.


In the case of Palestine, however, the region was cut up by
outside powers long ago. They allowed a highly nationalistic state to be
formed in Palestine, a place which was by no means homogeneous. This
state, the state of Israel, refuses to accept a segment of the
population on equal terms.

	One could equally well substitute Mesopotamia/Iraq
	for Palestine/Israel above.  (Mesopotamia became
	Iraq in 1921; independence was achieved in 1932.)
	Isn't it strange that one never hears Muslim groups
	calling for the destruction of Iraq?
-- 
Ron Evans (revans@math.ucsd.edu)
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Deportation vs. Murder
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 06:25:29 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.142935.23662@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk> skaamjm@ucl.ac.uk (Matthew Moore) writes:

# astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
 
# >jle@lear.bos.locus.com (John Elghani) writes:
 
# >>In article <1gvbffINNo7s@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) writes:

# >>>   A man is kidnapped.  A short time later, his body is found out
# >>>on the side of some road, dumped like a bag of garbage.  The body
 
# >First of all, it's highly unlikely any Israeli group would do anything
# >like that.
 
# >Second of all, if one did, it would be virtually universally condemned
# >by other Israelis.
 
# British soldiers were "captured and executed" by Zionist groups during the
# British mandate. That similar events are occurring forty years later
# during continued dispute over territory indicates that there are failures
# of policy.

	It has nothing to do with failures of policy.  During the mandate,
the British "captured and executed" Zionists.  The British soldiers
were taken in an attempt to stop the British actions.  When the
British persisted, their own soldiers met the same fate.  Why should
the Zionists have just sat back and taken it (apart from the fact that
they were "just jews")?

# Incidently why does everyone refer to the action of the Israeli's as
# 'deportation', when in reality they are attempting to _exile_ men from
# the land of their birth?

	Maybe because it is only for two years.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24224 talk.politics.soviet:10028 soc.culture.greek:11917 soc.culture.europe:10847 soc.history:10410 soc.culture.soviet:11613
From: tervio@katk.Helsinki.FI (TERVI| MARKO J)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: Bulgarians - descendents of a Finnis tribe?
Date: 28 Dec 92 11:00:04 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki, Computing Centre



>In article <1992Dec21.131543.14092@polaris.utu.fi> opaloneva@abo.fi (Olli-Jukka Paloneva) writes:

>>When Kemal Ataturk put a Bulgarian book "Finland - country of
>>the White Lilies" as compulsory teaching material many Turks
>>think that Finns are their relative nation.

>"Ojukka". This must be a common comprehension level shared by all the 
>members of new Finland. I don't have the faintest idea what literature 
>it is to which you refer. Is this an explicit statement by some document?
>Or is it your "fino" interpretation of statements in such literature?
>If you have some source that is not known to the rest of the world,
>I for one would be glad to hear of it. 

>"...as compulsory teaching material"? Must be the joke of the month?

>Serdar Argic

I've heard the same thing on a Finnish TV channel - It was the interview of
Turkey's president (Ozal or something like that).  It was he who told about 
his childhood and having to read the book in question, where Finland was a 
model society (it sounded funny,really).  He said that it's a widespread 
belief in Turkey that the Turks and the Finns are somehow related.  So if 
there is a "joke of the month" it was started by the president of Turkey.

Happy New Year !
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24538 talk.politics.soviet:10155 soc.culture.greek:11993 soc.culture.europe:10954 soc.rights.human:4716
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.rights.human
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: "ASALA/SDPA/ARF" has made "Armenian" synonymous with "criminal/Nazi".
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 93 16:07:52 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1992Dec31.045910.22912@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis) writes:

>As far as considering Turkey as more valuable than Greece, I
>doubt heavily. This philology came in surface after there was

You do seem to have your terminologies confused. Greece?

Source: "Hagop Hagopian said to have been part of 1972 Terror Attack at
Munich Olympic Games," The Armenian Reporter, February 7, 1985, p. 1.

"Le Matin, the influential Paris daily, based on unidentified sources,
claimed last week that Hagop Hagopian, the founder and leader of one
faction of the Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA),
was among the Arab terrorists who staged an attack on the living quarters
of Israeli athletes at the 1972 Olympic Games...

Le Matin added that up to 1982, Hagopian operated out of Beirut, Lebanon,
but escaped from the country when Israeli forces entered the city. It was
about this time that a statement issued by ASALA claimed that Mr. Hagopian
was dead of wounds suffered during a bombing by the Israeli Air Force,
although it is generally believed that the mysterious leader is alive and
well and presently is residing alternately in Damascus, Syria, and
Athens, Greece. The paper also noted that the socialist government of
Prime Minister Andreas Papandreou and his P.A.S.O.K. party accepted the
Armenian underground leader with "open arms" and still providing him
with assistance simply because of Greece's traditional enmity with Turkey.

Le Matin further adds that ASALA derives only a small portion of its
expenditures from wealthy Armenians who support the cause, with the rest 
coming either from other sources or from proceeds of an involvement in
drug trafficking. The paper asserts that Bulgarian authorities also assist
ASALA in obtaining all types of weapons that are used against Turkish targets 
and diplomats."

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Occupation
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 19:41:29 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1992Dec21.093314.4987@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:

>And what makes you say that Kurdistan wasn't invaded by those states
>anyway?  What do you call sending troops to an area and declaring it
>part of your country, if not an invasion?

People will think you're just some looney howling in the wires.
When the borders of the new Turkish state were drawn up at the
start of the Turkish Independence War (1919-1923) the Kurds
were asked whether they considered themselves part of the 
ultimate Turkish homeland. At a time when the victors of the
First World War were planning to give a large part of Eastern
Anatolia to a Kurdish state, just for the heck of breaking
up Ottoman lands, the Kurds did not want to form their own
state, but made common cause with the Turks with whom they
have been living together for centuries. After almost 70
years many of them have been fully integrated in the Turkish 
society and political life. The Foreign Minister of the new
government is one of them. No ethnic or religious group was given 
minority status in Lausanne Agreement except non-Muslims in Turkiye 
and Muslims in Greece, given the status on the basis of reciprocity.
Also recognized were special rights which could be described as
privileges. That was how the Greek and Jewish communities gained
a 'minority' status. It seems that you have not had time to 
study the Lausanne Agreement. Got it, now?

Right from the outset certain things must be made clear to everyone.
Turkiye's territorial integrity is not negotiable. If some day the
white-hating black extremists [or Klu Klux Klan or Nazi Armenians, 
for that matter] in this country would go far enough to want an 
independent purely black [or white or Nazi Armenian] state, I do not 
believe that the United States Government would just donate part of its 
territory for this 'noble cause.' I do not want to even imagine
what the white majority [or blacks] will do to them. The pundits
who love to construct some of the scenarios that give large chunks
of other peoples' lands to Kurds, would not be that generous with
their own lands. Have you ever heard of 'The Turkish Independence
War?'

To put it simply and bluntly, the problem cannot be solved just by
neutralizing the PKK (although that would be extremely easy for the
Turkish military), but by making the population of Eastern Anatolia
'love' the government they elect. That is the way any democracy 
should work. 

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Israeli soldiers kill Palestinian boy
Date: 22 Dec 92 22:03:46 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Dec17.222155.27594@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>
>An article in the last New York Times Sunday Magazine mentions how
>Arabs in Israel expect to be killed by members of their own families
>if they dare voice an opinion of any form of acceptance of a Jewish
>presence in Israel.  The article was somewhat chilling in that it
>represented a somewhat Leftist point of view, not uncommon in
>journalism on Israel today.  It is illuminating that the Israeli Left
>is today joining the Right in opposing Arab rejectionism and violence.

Ah, again with the New York Times.  Is that your Bible, Jake?  The Word
of Truth?  Yes, it is illuminating how Israelis are still refusing to
recognize every Palestinian's right to express their individual views
politically and socially.  Of course they want to oppose and evict every
voice of opposition, so why should this be any different than any other
authoritarian government in the Middle East?  Why should we be surprised
that they want to form a puppet regime of mindless, subservient Palestinian
leaders and followers?

Anisa

	"In this proud land we grew up strong.  We were wanted
	all along.  I was taught to fight - taught to win.  I
	never thought I could fail.  No fight left or so it seems,
	I am a man who's dreams have all deserted.  I've changed
	my face, I've changed my name.  But no one wants you when
	you lose."
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24277 talk.politics.soviet:10043 soc.culture.greek:11928 soc.culture.europe:10865 soc.history:10419 soc.culture.soviet:11642 news.admin.policy:939
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet,news.admin.policy
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Hypocrisy, double standards and "Po Shan Cheah".
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 20:51:25 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1992Dec28.060246.20006@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> pcheah@nyx.cs.du.edu (Po Shan Cheah) writes:

>As the recent spate of posts show, that garrulous piece of AI junk
>Serdar Argic is now crossposting to news.admin.policy, as well as
>about half a dozen other newsgroups. *sigh* Pure killfile fodder. 

Cannot contest the points, so sling mud at the person or make
disparaging personal remarks. You are so narrow-minded you could 
see through a keyhole with both eyes.

>Let's see whether it responds to an article not crossposted to
>soc.culture.turkish. 

If skill could be gained by watching, every dog would become a
butcher. Now, any comment? 

Source: "Men Are Like That" by Leonard Ramsden Hartill. The Bobbs-Merrill
Company, Indianapolis (1926). (305 pages). 
(Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the genocide of 2.5 
 million Muslim people)

p. 133 (first paragraph)

"In this movement we took with us three thousand Turkish soldiers who
 had been captured by the Russians and left on our hands when the Russians
 abandoned the struggle. During our retreat to Karaklis two thousand of
 these poor devils were cruelly put to death. I was sickened by the
 brutality displayed, but could not make any effective protest. Some,
 mercifully, were shot. Many of them were burned to death. The method
 employed was to put a quantity of straw into a hut, and then after
 crowding the hut with Turks, set fire to the straw."

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.rights.human
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.rights.human
Subject: Re: Israeli Expulsion of 418 Palestinians
Date: 24 Dec 92 23:57:32 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Dec24.035503.18831@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
>
>On the other hand, in the case of the Hamas terrorists, we're not
>talking about innocents.
 
And I suppose you are going to tell us next that Israel has indeed
proven this?  Why should anyone not believe what you are saying
given the history of Israeli 'justice' of accused collaborators
against 'Eretz Yisrael'?

Anisa
	"I didn't program you to make moral judgements."
From: jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Rabin the peace-maker
Date: 21 Dec 92 10:42:50 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

Not so very long ago I received a lot of criticism from the likes of
Nevo Hed (quite good humored) and Mark "Kaffe Klatsch" Kaufman (less so)
for suggesting that it was somewhat over-optimistic, given Rabin's
involvement in the Ramle/Lydde massacres, and his "break their arms" policy
vis-a-vis the intifada, to imagine that he would keep to his promise to
bring Palestinian autonomy in the occupied territories within 9 months.

Now we can see that the peace process is dead, after the illegal mass
expulsion of Palestinians, and that Rabin's promise will be broken. I hate
to say "I told you so", but, well, I told you so.

But let's look again. It must be obvious to anyone with the political
acumen of a coconut that the expulsion would lead to a lose-lose situation
for Israel - either they agree to take back the expulsees, and lose face,
or the expulsees remain exactly where they are, a permanent rallying call
to Hamas and Palestinian resistance in general. The PLO are talking to Hamas
for the first time. All perfectly predictable. So it seems that Rabin was
so blinded by his bloodthirsty lust for vengeance that he overlooked all
these obvious consequences. Just the sort of person that Israel needs in
charge, right?

Oh and by the way, in a TV appearance, he claims to have had no choice.
Well excuuuuuuuuuuuse me!, but in civilised countries (not necessarily in
Syria, or Iraq, but in *civilised* countries) people aren't punished until
some evidence against them has been presented in a court of law, with due
right to defence. Maybe Israel could try setting its standards just a little
higher?





-- 
===Jeremy Henderson===jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk=          

This message cost the net hundreds if not thousands of dollars.
Bloody good value if you ask me.
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: POLITICS: Re: Israel must return the deportees!
Date: 1 Jan 93 08:29:15 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Dec31.073659.141@vms.huji.ac.il> backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
>
>The Israelis NEVER "hung a few". The BRITISH "hung a few" !

Sure they did, ever hear of Meir Tobianski?  Others, I am sure.  But
you are the expert on Zionism ... :-

>I don't know how old you are and if you remember the Weathermen in the 1960's
>but they were basically "open season" for being hunted down.

Ooops ... gave away your age, eh?  I think the majority of us were not
conceived yet, or were in diapers.  :-)
 
Anisa

"Glad to see that we're debating with sensible fanatics here."
						Alan H. Stein
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet,sci.lang