HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lein@garage.uucp (John Leinaweaver)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: The Bowl Coalition fails yet again
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:26:47 GMT
Organization: Bellcore, Piscataway NJ

In article <1992Oct14.122620.2310@mlb.semi.harris.com> dhead@comanche.ess.harris.com writes:
>
>The Bowl Coalition can't fail "yet again" because this is the first year it is
>going to be in effect.  And it is not actually failing, it's just not being allowed
>to work because the snooty Rose Bowl prefers to be picky picky choosy about who
>plays in their dusty old bowl game.  Until the Rose Bowl stranglehold is broken,
>I don't feel that Washington or Michigan or any of the other Rose Bowl eligible
>teams can complain if they don't win a national championship.  To the University

Who ever said the Bowl Cartel was meant to produce the MNC - It's only purpose
was to produce better match ups and more $$$ for the sponsers.

Bowl pairing based on sports writters votes does not a championship game
make.  

If a Rose Bowl winner comes out undefeated then yes they too deserve to
claim #1...

>of Washington; if you truly want to be national champs and earn some respect for
>your allegedly stilted west coast brethren, then come out from behind the Rose
>Bowl fence and take on Miami (or Florida State I'm hoping).  Looks like it's
>"tradition" or national respect.  You choose.

Who ever said the Bowl Cartel was meant to produce the MNC - It's only purpose
was to produce better match ups and more $$$ for the sponsers.


John L
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: lein@garage.uucp (John Leinaweaver)
Subject: Penn St versus top 10
Organization: Bellcore, Piscataway NJ
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 14:39:38 GMT

I've seen a few post regarding Penn State's Record versus top 10 teams 
(including  a lot of number crunching by Mr. Pitts.)  I don't know where
ESPN got their graphic that stated that Penn State under Paterno is 
10-40somthing against teams that finished in the top 10.  Going through
PSU's record since 1966 (Joe Paterno era) this is what I found.

Overall versus teams that finished in the top 10:  9-21
Overall in games where PSU and Opponent finished in top 10:  8-9 

Being Human I may have muffed a handfull of games - my appologies to the  
fans of teams I missed.

I did not include teams that lost to Penn State and as a result may not have 
finished in the top-10.  four of these games come to mind - 
    1980 Fiesta Bowl PSU over Ohio St 31-19 
    1981 PSU over Nebraska 30-24
    1982 Fiesta Bowl PSU over Southern Cal. 26-10
    1992 Fiesta Bowl PSU over Tennessee 42-17
    
 

Penn State On the Road
                          FINAL top 10 AP RANK
PSU  year-team   OPP      PSU      OPP
---  ---------   ---      ---      --- 
 8 '66 Mich ST    42       NR        2
11 '66 UCLA       49       NR        5
11 '71 Tennessee  31        5        9
21 '72 Tennessee  28       10        8
 9 '75 Ohio St    17       10        4
17 '79 Nebraska   42       NR        9
48 '81 Pitt       14        4        8
23 '86 Alabama     3        1        9
21 '87 Syracuse   48       NR        4
30 '88 W.V.U      51       NR        5
 7 '88 Notre Dame 21       NR        1
24 '90 Notre Dame 21       NR        6
20 '91 Miami      26        3        1


Overall Away record: 3-10
Games where both PSU and opponent finished in top 10: 2-4



Penn State at Home

                          FINAL top 10 AP RANK
PSU  year-team   OPP      PSU      OPP
---  ---------   ---      ---      --- 
 7 '76 Pitt       24       NR        1
20 '77 Kentucky   24        5        6
14 '79 Pitt       29       NR        7
 7 '80 Nebraska   21        8        7
27 '82 Nebraska   24        1        3
19 '82 Pitt       10        1       10
23 '89 Notre Dame 34       NR        3?

Overall Home record 2-5
Games where both PSU and opponent finished in top 10: 2-2



At Neutral sites

                          FINAL top 10 AP RANK
PSU  year-team   OPP      PSU      OPP
---  ---------   ---      ---      --- 
15 '68 Kansas     14        2        7
10 '69 Missouri    3        2        6
 0 '72 Oklahoma   14       10        2
 6 '75 Alabama    13       NR        6
 7 '78 Alabama    14        4        1
27 '82 Georgia    24        1        4
 5 '83 Nebraska   44       NR        2
10 '85 Oklahoma   25        3        1
14 '86 Miami      10        1        2
17 '90 Florida St 24       NR        4

Overal Neutral site record: 4-6
Games where both PSU and opponent finished in top 10: 4-3



John L
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 01:37:10 EDT
From: <AMM1@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: LSU QBs?
 <1992Oct5.221128.3379@nntpserver.chevron.com>
 <1992Oct6.191418.22479@cs.tulane.edu>

I beg to differ, Mike got a raise at the beginning of the year
and stll got screwed by Joe Dean and L.S.U.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: nelson@clunker.b21.ingr.com (nelson jordan)
Subject: Re: LSU QBs?
Organization: ^$
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 13:47:42 GMT

In article <92281.013710AMM1@psuvm.psu.edu> <AMM1@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>I beg to differ, Mike got a raise at the beginning of the year
>and stll got screwed by Joe Dean and L.S.U.

 Are you related to Mike Archer or something? Just wondering.
From: zjsg12@hou.amoco.com (Jeffry S. Gracey)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Pre-Game: Longhorns-Aggies Thanksgiving
Date: 13 Oct 92 17:53:39 GMT
Reply-To: zjsg12@hou.amoco.com
Organization: Amoco

In article 1@gallua.gallaudet.edu, 11rpotter@gallua.gallaudet.edu () writes:
>
>The Longhorns Beat Sooners with no questions!
>
>	This is time to discuss and talk about the game between the 
>Longhorns and the Aggies!  Will the Longhorns beat the Aggies on the
>Thanksgiving Day?  
>
>	Of course, there are few reasons that the Longhorns are ready
>to beat Aggies:
>
>	1.  Have Aggies for Thanksgiving Dinner
>	2.  Home Advantage "Home Sweet Home"
>	3.  Can handle against Aggies' defenese
>	4.  Desire to beat Top 10 team after loss to Syracuse and Miss. St.
>	5.  It's time for the Longhorns to go COTTON BOWL '93!!
>
>		HOOK'EM HORNS!!!


In your dreams T-sip !!! Prediction: A&M - 21 t.u. - 3. 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Subject: Re: AP Top 25 (Was Re: Miami Can Not Be Denied!!!)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 14:26:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <1992Oct14.170507.3439@u.washington.edu> echen@hardy.u.washington.edu (Ed Chen) writes:
>>>
>>>drop from #1 contention & Miami deserves the #1 (note this still doesn't
>>>give any data as which team is better).  If AZ crushes (no way!) UW, then
>>>the data indicates Miami is much better than UW. 
>
>I agree with Andy, that common opponents are among the various data points
>that we have in this system.  It is definately not 100% accurate, and you
>can't take it by itself to proof anything.  But I stand by my statement
>that it has more weight than most of the other measuring sticks we have.
>
>Extreme data points happens, in which Cal vs Purdue & Arizona vs Miami may
>or maynot be one of them - which we should see more clearly by the end of 
>season - if ever.  

So which is it???  If you claim that the "data" indicates anything based
on the Az/Miami game, then your same "theory" must hold with the Cal/Purdue
game as well.  So, are you then admitting that, based on this particular
data point (not overall, just this data point that "has more weight than
most of the other measuring sticks we have"), that Purdue is a MUCH better
team than UW.  Their game was never even close.  The UW game was close until
the 3rd quarter, and even after that, Cal had some chances (but UW proved 
themselves by not letting Cal back into it, even after the successive 
scoring drives by Cal.. Hats off to UW for not getting rattled..)
>
>Also, you can have your opinions of things, and I have mine.  Who's right
>is in our own heads.  I will not (and don't have the time) try to force my
>opinion on you.

Good..  I just am trying to figure out your opinion.  Do you admit that,
at least with this data point, UW suffers????
-- 
David T. Meeks                    ||" We are jigsaw pieces, aligned on the 
VMark Software, Inc.              ||  perimeter edge, 
uvmark!davem@merk.com             ||  interlocked through a missing piece"
davem%uvmark@merk.com             ||" ...This world is totally Fugazi"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: tshannon@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu (Timothy J. Shannon)
Subject: Re: Iowa 23, Wisconsin 22 and other ramblings
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 04:56:47 GMT

From article <1992Oct10.172234.19935@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, by tsau@cae.wisc.edu (Johne Tsau):
> Well, the final score is Iowa 23, Wisconsin 22...
> Iowa made a come from behind victory, and Wisconsin failed in a 
> 53 yard field goal attempt...  For the second year in a row,
> Wisconsin falls 1 play short (this year the 2 point conversion,
> last year the TD on 4th and 5 with 44 seconds).
	and for the eightenth year in a row loses to Iowa.
> 
> Well, what does everyone think Wisconsin's loss to Iowa do to Wisconsin?
> Will it decrease their confidence? Increase it (they did almost beat
> them)?  Can they play well enough to beat the rest of their schedule...
> I do believe that even with Iowa's lousy record, they are still the
> 2nd best team in the Big10 (Only Michigan will be ranked now, w/o PSU).

	I would have to agree with you after OSU lost again this week.
Wisconsin looked good, but once again Iowa was very inconsistant.  During
the third quarter, before Wisconsin scored their last TD, it looked like
Iowa was starting to play really good.  Almost as if they were going to
start to blow out UW, but they started to play crappy.  
	The last drive by Iowa was also great.  Hartlieb looked like a 
Senior 4-year starter.  He was almost flawless throwing into the wind.
He was on the mark, and very sharp.  He didn't get sacked at all.  I think
this is the type of game Iowa needed, now they should (*SHOULD*) go on
to play better football.  Maybe they will go to the Citrus (I think that is
the 2nd place bowl team)
 
-- 
	Timothy J. Shannon    	e-mail -  timothy-shannon@uiowa.edu
"I certainly don't want to quit playing Iowa State. Not at all.  I mean we're
10-and-0 (vs.ISU in the last 10 years) That would be silly" - Hayden Fry when
asked if he would prefer to play Div.I-AA Northern Iowa instead of Iowa State.
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: OSU Falls to Wisconsin!!
Date: 8 Oct 1992 19:42:39 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <1992Oct7.130634.1@pa621a.inland.com> copus@pa621a.inland.com writes:
>        Really Randy? How many crowd noise penalties have been handed out
>        in Madison?
>
>        Len
   
   Well Len, let me bring you back to 1981 (coincidentally, one of the last
   times UW had a decent football team), when UW opened the season with
   Michigan, which was ranked #1 at the time. I believe the Badgers were up
   by seven in the third quarter when Michigan had a third-and-one or so at
   about UW's three yard line. The UM quarterback (was it Rick Leach, shit I
   was only 15 at the time) refused to go under center and Michigan got
   three penalties in a row to be called on Wisconsin because of the crowd
   noise. It gave UM a first down at the half-yard line and they scored.

   Don't worry, the story does have a happy ending, UW upset UM 21-14, but
   it was another case of a stupid rule almost costing a team big-time. BTW,
   I doubt if that's ever even been close to happening since then.

   --salty


Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: kmartin@dogwood.cray.com (Kenneth B. Martin)
Subject: Re: Biggest Rivalry in the Country?
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: 9 Oct 92 13:06:25 CDT

In article <1992Oct9.164747.9974@b11.b11.ingr.com> jeff@jlk.b11.ingr.com writes:
>In article <1992Oct8.200252.1@ducvax.auburn.edu>, swanger@ducvax.auburn.edu writes:
>|> 
>|> And don't give Jim a hard time, he's probably sweating right now about that
>|> bunch of psychos from Tulane!  Ooooh, the Green Wave.  Maybe we can schedule
>|> them next year after the Samford game!!
>
>  No doubt Tulane will be ready to play. But remember this; if Bama is fortunate
>enough to get ahead early, look for the 1st string to be removed!  Like vs South
>Carolina, the first string was taken out in the 2nd quarter.  Dye had White
>throwing against Samford in the 3rd quarter after the game was far out of hand.


That's just because Stan needs the practice, BELIEVE ME!!  Maybe that move
will help White out in future games and help him avoid so many INT's!

--Ken
AU '90

--
===========================================================================
Ken Martin, Sales Analyst                   Phone:  (404) 631-2244
Cray Research South Government District     EMAIL:  kmartin@sedist.cray.com
=========================================================================== 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: yvonne@well.sf.ca.us (Yvonne Lee)
Subject: Re: Stanford Band
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:36:27 GMT

In <1b4g7fINNcf@sal-sun102.usc.edu> valdis@usc.edu (Valdis Kalejs) writes:




>In article <1992Oct8.175001.2465@mdd.comm.mot.com> behzad@mdd.comm.mot.com (Behzad Khamneian) writes:
>>
>>Hi,
>>  Could somone please fill me in on why the Stanford Band was banned a couple
>>of years ago?  I know there was an incident on either the field or the 
>>sidelines, but am not sure as to what it was exactly.  Please either post or
>>e-mail me.
>>
>>  I haven't been follwing the "Stanford Banned" postings, so if there was a 
>>mention of the incident of a couple of years ago, I haven't seen it.
>>
>>Thanx,
>>
>>-Behzad  *smirk*  "Isn't the dancing tree the funniest thing you've ever 
>>                                                                    seen?"



>Behzad,

>Well the Stanford band has been in trouble numerous times,my "favorite" was
>watching them some time ago doing a halftime show titled "A Tribute To 
>Abortion" with the band playing their "music" in coathanger formation. Rumour
>has it that Axl Rose, and Sinead O'Connor will be guest musicians this year..

>Fight On,
>Valdis Kalejs







Of course, a team with a condom for a mascot doesn't have to worry about
abortions.
-- 
*****************************************************************
yvonne_lee@infoworld.com   (preferred email reply address)
yvonne@well.sf.ca.us       (news account) (415) 312-0571 w  (415) 968-3132 h
*****************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: asj4j@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (JonaX)
Subject: Re: Virginia WINS
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 23:31:55 GMT

asj4j@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU  writes:
> > |> Well, well, well....Virginia is now 5-0....hmmmmmm
> > |> 
> > 	Jeez, my work is never done :)
> > 
> > |> Up next Clemson....at Virginia....
> > |> 
> > |> Even though Clemson is coming from a big win over a small team, I 
> > |> think Clemson will LOOSE!!!!!    Virginia will be 6-0.
> > |> 
> > 	Virginia's run defense sucked against Wake, Clemson is the best rushing
> > team in the conference ... Virginia 5-1.
> 
> Well...the score with  less than 2 minutes left in the first half 
>                VIRGINIA 28 to CLEMSON's 0 !!!!!!!
> 
> Looks like Virginia will be seeing a lot more national coverage...
> ...especially Terry Kirby, Chris Slade, and Bobby Goodman!!!
> Let the hype begin : VIRGINIA vs Florida State  October 1st !!!



Otay, otay.....drop the hype, all flames will be accepted with
gratitude...I deserve it as well as does the entire UVa football team...

    Final score : Virginia 28  Clemson 29....
From: jlance@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (J. Lance Porter)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: KSU-KU question re: one-sided rivalries
Date: 9 Oct 1992 12:49:59 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: us
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu


Granted, the KSU-KU rivalry means zip to anyone else but
in the words of a local sportscaster, it's a big, big, big, 
big, big game here in Kansas.

K-Staters really hate KU.  The sunflower bowl (formerly 
toilet bowl) is our biggest game, but KU fans seem
to regard the KU-Missouri matchup as a bigger deal.  Why?

Other posts considered how one dominated team would tend
to take a rivalry more seriously than the other, but that
can't explain this one.  If it is basketball related, 
why would KU care since they have (presumably) dominated MU.

KU fans, please hate us as much as we hate you!


-- 
/****************************************************************
J. Lance Porter            'Engineers do it without knowing why.'
jlance@matt.ksu.edu  
****************************************************************/
From: James.K.Pinkelman.1@nd.edu (Jim Pinkelman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Pac10 is the best conference so far
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:06:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Oct13.210614.23483
Organization: University of Notre Dame
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A700A73BEA01401E@jpinkelman.aero.nd.edu>
X-Xxdate: Tue, 13 Oct 92 16:18:03 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9

In article <yvonne.719004336@well.sf.ca.us> Yvonne Lee,
yvonne@well.sf.ca.us writes:
>Well, the ACC may have gone .500 against a single conference, but what
was
>the
>conference's overall record in bowl play?  What was its record in overall
>regular season non-conference play?
>-- 
>*****************************************************************
>yvonne_lee@infoworld.com   (preferred email reply address)
>yvonne@well.sf.ca.us       (news account) (415) 312-0571 w  (415)
968-3132 h

Let me see if I've tracked this conversation correctly...

Paraphrasing,

Someone TRIED to say: "The Pac-Ten is undisbutably the best
                      conference in college football."
                      
Mark said: "Maybe they aren't, the ACC is pretty good so far
          this year."

Someone said: "It is meaningless to talk about who is best
               untill the end of the season.  Besides the ACC
               didn't do that well in bowls LAST YEAR."

Someone else said:  "Yeah!, that last person is right!
                     How well did the ACC fare in bowls year ?"

The way I read this is that west-coasters have turned their
assertion that the PAC-10 is this years best football conference
into a question of how well the ACC did in the bowls LAST YEAR.

Did a miss a logic step here?
From: conery@kiwanda.cs.uoregon.edu (John Conery)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Sagarin ratings of conferences
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:02:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: kiwanda.CONERY.92Oct16100214
Organization: CS Dept, University of Oregon

In article <71280@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt6390a@prism.gatech.EDU (BERNSTEIN,AVRON P) writes:

   Whoa!  Wait a minute!  If SAGARIN says something, it MUST be so!  Gee, lets
   all drop the arguments RIGHT NOW, because Sagarin has set the record straight!
   Seriously though, this clown (Sagarin) belongs with Sheridan (the oddsmaker) on
   the list of Most Overpaid People with Bogus Jobs!  I am honestly not flaming
   the poster of the Sagarin ratings.  My bone is with Sagarin himself.  ANYONE
   with a computer can put some equations in a program, read in a data file, and
   spit out numbers from now until the heat-death of the universe.  [etc]

Having GT (#35) ranked below Oregon (at #33 the ninth best team in the Pac-10)
must have really gotten to you :-)

   -- 
   BERNSTEIN,AVRON P
   Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
   uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt6390a
   Internet: gt6390a@prism.gatech.edu

JC
--

John Conery			Dept of Computer and Information Science
conery@cs.uoregon.edu		University of Oregon
(503) 346-4408			Eugene, OR  97403-1202
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: jdh@math.psu.edu (Jeremy D Hall)
Subject: Re: Miami Can Not Be Denied!!!
Summary: Smoke gets in your eyes...
Organization: Penn State Department of Mathematics
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 20:24:53 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.170319.26725@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> kschudt@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Karl C Schudt) writes:
>
>     If they keep winning, congrats on MNC #5, but they are doing it
>with smoke and mirrors (and defense).
>
No, the smoke was in Section EA yesterday at Beaver Stadium.  Someone set off
a smoke bomb, obscuring my view of Penn State not scoring.  :^(

>Karl

Jeremy Hall
Penn State Univ.
jdh@math.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
From: mm42@prism.gatech.EDU (Mark Mitchell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Sagarin's Conference Rankings
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:17:07 GMT
Organization: Ramblin' Wrecks from Georgia Tech

acdendy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (ROGER DENDY) wrote:
}
}I draw the opposite conclusion: that the Conventional Wisdom (tm) is not 
}quite right.

Always a possibility ...

}             This in part because Sagarin's rankings of these teams roughly  
}line up with mine.  For reference, my computer's rankings:

I wonder if you and Sagarin aren't unknowingly doing the same 
algorithm, some sort of minimization to final scores?

}PAC-10: 1-UW,5-Stan,13-WSU,16-USC,28-UCLA,29-Cal,33-UofA,43-Ore,60-ASU,73-
}OSU
}
}ACC: 4-FSU,18-UVa,22-GaTech,27-Clem,39-NCSU,44-UNC,51-Wake,59-Duke,83-UMd

Perhaps Sagarin and Dendy are right, or perhaps Mitchell, Gidi, and Gupta
are:

Gupta:
PAC-10   ( 1, 4,12,15,17,29,33,47,55,91)
ACC      ( 2,10,18,21,24,31,62,67,69)

Gidi:
PAC-10   ( 1, 4, 8,13,20,21,32,35,42,57)
ACC      ( 2, 6, 9,11,12,25,38,48,51)

These two algorithms seem much closer to my point of view that
the top of the PAC-10 is stronger but that the middle of the ACC
matches up well.  (Actually Gidi says even the top matches up, but
I suspect that this is partly because the ACC teams have not yet
played many of the few tough out-of-conference games on the slate.
Expect a late-season correction here.)

-- 
Mark Mitchell           Georgia Tech            mm42@prism.gatech.edu

       "Death wears a big hat, 'cause he's a big bloke."    
Organization: Masters student, Urban and Public Affairs, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:21:54 -0400 
From: Scott Gregory <wg2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Attn: People in Pitt


    Anyone else at the Pitt-Notre Dame game get as revolted and
indignant as I did at the huge regional bias in reporting other college
football scores on the board?  (e.g. Forget the UW-Cal game, that's way
over in the West somewhere, but here's all the Ivy League scores...)
From: zjsg12@hou.amoco.com (Jeffry S. Gracey)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.college
Subject: Re: Aggie News and schedule strength
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:17:10 GMT
Reply-To: zjsg12@hou.amoco.com
Organization: Amoco

>Hope to see T. Preston in there running the option again. The Ags
>are at their best running the option, IMHO.

Thanks for the welcome and the advice, Thomas. I'll follow it.

Agreed. If the Ags could get a healthy, reliable Preston to run the
option even remotely like Bucky Richardson, the Ags could be dang
near unbeatable with that defense.

I never thought I'd say it, but I miss Bucky !!

GIG 'EM AGGIES,

        Jeff Gracey '91