HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup)
Subject: Re: Traditional Swedish Christmas song
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 09:56:22 GMT

In article <staff.02na@rabbit.augs.se> staff@rabbit.augs.se (Staffan Friberg) writes:
>> are religious in that they mention the word "jul" (x-mas), albeit not
>> necessarily connecting it with the religious event.
>
>I'm sorry if I send this thread off in a new direction but I relly must ask
>this.
>
>You mention the word "jul" as having a religious meaning. Where does this
>word come from? Me and some friends of mine have been talking about this a
>lot and we haven't the faintest idea. No words in the languages we know have
>words that could be considered related. These languages include swedish,
>german, french, japanese and italian.

Maybe you missed the obvious :-)

How about the good, old English word 'yule'?

My electronic copy of the OED says the following about 'yule':


                                   yule

sb. Forms: 1 &asg.eol, &asg.eochol, &asg.eoh(h)ol, -el, &asg.eh(h)ol,
&asg.ehhel, &asg.eola, iula, 2 iol, 2-4 &ygh.ol (yol), 3 &ygh.eol, 4 &ygh.ool,
4-5 &ygh.ole, 5 &ygh.oil(l, yoyll(e, &ygh.owle, yowle, youle, yole, yoole, 
&ygh.wle, (yold(e), 5-7 &ygh.ule, 6 &ygh.oile, &ygh.uill, &ygh.ull, 
&ygh.owill, -ell, &ygh.oull, &ygh.eoll, (ewle), 6-7 yeul, yewl, yool, yuill, 
&ygh.uil, (ule, 9 yuhl), 6- yule.  Also dial. (in comb.) 7 yew, 7-8 yu, u. 
[The modern form descends from OE. &asg.e&oacu.l, earlier &asg.eoh(h)ol, 
&asg.eh(h)ol, also &asg.e&oacu.la sometimes pl.) Christmas day or 
Christmastide, and in phr. se &ae.&acu.rra &asg.e&oacu.la December, se 
&ae.ftera &asg.e&oacu.la January; corresp. to ONor. j&oacu.l pl. a heathen 
feast lasting twelve days, (later) Christmas.  An Old Anglian &asg.iuli, 
recorded by Bede (see quot. 726 in sense 1) as the name of December and
January, corresponds to ONor. y&acu.lir month beginning on the second day of 
the week falling within Nov. 10-17, and Goth. jiuleis in fruma jiuleis 
November.  The ultimate origin of the Teut. types *jeul- (je&asg.ul-) and 
*je&chi.ul-:-pre-Teut. *jeqwl- is obscure.]

1 December or January.  Obs.
  [quotes showing the use since 726]

2 Christmas and the festivities connected therewith.  (Still the name in 
  Sc. and north. dial.; since c 1850 also a literary archaism in Eng.).
  [quotes showing the use since 900]


So it would seem it is an old English/old Norse word, originally meaning
December or January, but which meaning has been transposed to mean Christmas.

Greetings,
--Mike

-- 
#include <std-disclm.h>--"... and there is a small flaw in my character."---
Real Life: Michael Christian Heide Qvortrup      A Dane         ETH, Zuerich
e-mail   : qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch                  abroad         Switzerland
Institut fuer wissenschaftliches Rechnen  /  Inst. of Scientific Computation
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: khelgese@IASTATE.EDU (Kjetil Helgesen)
Subject: Re: Learning Norwegian
Reply-To: khelgese@IASTATE.EDU (Kjetil Helgesen)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:32:09 GMT

Even though I would also recommend to learn "bokmaal" to most people, it will
depend a little on what the purpose of learning it is.  If it is learning a
little before going to Norway to visit relatives, I would recommend "nynorsk" to
people with relatives in the west part of southern Norway, especially the
northwest (north of Bergen).  It is a fact that "nynorsk" was made artificially,
but it was based on Norwegian dialects.  Also, I would think that most written
languages are artificially constructed, including bokmaal.  The fact that
"nynorsk" was artificially made later than "bokmaal" does not make it less
worth.

-Kjetil
Xref: sparky soc.culture.nordic:7954 alt.politics.ec:255 alt.politics.europe.misc:237
From: genillou@litsun.epfl.ch (Guy Genilloud)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,alt.politics.ec,alt.politics.europe.misc
Subject: Re: Swiss Vote on EES !
Date: 18 Dec 92 09:30:43 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.nordic
Organization: Ecole polytechnique federale de Lausanne DI-LIT

In article <CMM.0.90.2.723986645.jonnya@kjaglia.ifi.uio.no>, Jonny Axelsson <jonnya@ifi writes:
>Besides, Switzerland is the only country but Norway that has applied
>for, but won't join the EU, just as Lichtenstein like Iceland won't
>even apply and Greenland left.

It is a bit early to say that Switzerland won't join the EC. There will probably
be a second vote on the EEA, and the application for joining the EC remains 
valid.

It is hard to understand Switzerland's position when you don't live
here. Direct democracy is a difficult exercise. Moreover, it appears that
some tuning of the system becomes necessary in Switzerland - nobody knows
exactly how to go about this.

This being said, most people in Switzerland, even amongst those who lost on 
the 6th of December, are not ready to give up direct democracy. In fact, the 
Swiss hope that Europe will evolve towards more democracy, and possibly
towards some sort of direct democracy.


Guy Genilloud
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DI - LIT                             (Laboratoire d'informatique technique)
EPFL                                 (Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne)
(IN) - Ecublens
CH-1015 Lausanne
SWITZERLAND 

internet: genilloud@litsun.epfl.ch
X.400:    C=CH; A=ARCOM; P=SWITCH; O=EPFL; OU=LITSUN; S=GENILLOUD
tel = (+41 21) 693 46 57   fax = (+41 21) 693 47 01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: mtf@saha.hut.fi (dalens ande)
Subject: Re: Finnish Defense
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 18:41:18 GMT

In article <1g9632INN8m0@uwm.edu> pkokkone@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Pellervo Kokkonen) writes:

>	You seems to contradict yourself, when first saying, that Finns
>	can offer no resistance etc. and then starting about the guerilla
>	warfare.

 What I said was that (IMO) there is not very much that Finland can do
to prevent a superpower from invading here. I added that Finland could,
however, make such an invasion look less appealing by training guerilla
troops that would make a stay here very unpleasant (consider what happened 
in Yugoslavia during WWII). Where did I contradict myself?

>	YOU may not be aware what has happened in Afghanistan, Vietnam
>	and why nobody is willing start an operation in Bosnia.

 I don't know what you're referring at. I believe guerilla warfare worked
out pretty well in the Afghanistan and Vietnam wars. Am I mistaken?

 I AM aware, however, of what happened in the Gulf War.

>	A typical technocrat bias is to count the military might
>	in tons of iron and steel (or computer equipment) that can be
>	deployed, and not to consider the political and all other 
>	social costs or even economic cost that it takes to apply
>	this technology consistently for long enough period to get 
>	the results.

 I'm very far from being a technocrat. Still, technology nowadays plays
a far greater role in warfare than it did 50 years ago. The Gulf War very
clearly showed this. The point I was trying to make was that Finland can
not compete in high-tech with our neighboring superpower. We have to find
some other way. Guerilla troops could be one.

 Anyway, I'm not very interested in the subject. So, if you don't have 
anything very important to say, I'd rather drop it at this...
--
Antti Lahelma   |	      mtf@saha.hut.fi 	           |   GNOTHI SEAUTON 
Lehtotie 3     -O-	      stel@purkki.apu.fi          -*-  ====== ======= 
00630 HELSINKI  | <<Jumalat ovat pakanoille suosiollisia>> |    TUNNE ITSESI   
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Subject: Re: Traditional Swedish Christmas song
Reply-To: jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun)
Organization: SINTEF, Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 07:55:01 GMT

In article <staff.02na@rabbit.augs.se>, staff@rabbit.augs.se (Staffan Friberg) writes:
|> 
|> I'm sorry if I send this thread off in a new direction but I relly
|> must ask this.
|> 
|> You mention the word "jul" as having a religious meaning. Where
|> does this word come from? Me and some friends of mine have been
|> talking about this a lot and we haven't the faintest idea. No
|> words in the languages we know have words that could be considered
|> related. These languages include swedish, german, french, japanese
|> and italian.
|> 
|> Anyone????
|> 


I think I have heard that the word "jul" comes from the old nordic
"jol" or something, which might be the word for a mid-winter party -
the vikings drank beer (mjd), had lots of food, and so on, you know -
just like the modern "julebord".... :-)


+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jan Arne Fagertun, Research Engineer, SINTEF Division Thermodynamics|
| E-mail: Jan.A.Fagertun@termo.unit.no                                |
| Phone : +47 7 596890                            Fax  : +47 7 944513 |
| Mail  : SINTEF/Varmeteknikk, 7034 Trondheim, Norway                 |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: leino@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Antti Leino)
Subject: Re: Lappis (Was: Re: Non-Indo-Europ
Organization: Turun katedraalikoulu
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:04:40 GMT

In article <user-151292221353@hf-mac16.uio.no> user@computer.uio.no (PC Jorgensen) writes:

>Well, I do not speak Lapp myself, but every linguistics textbook I've ever
>seen places Lapp in the Fenno-Ugric language family.

Yes, the Lappish language is a Fenno-Ugric one. Actually, it would be
more proper to speak of Lappic languages; the so-called Lappish dialects
differ from each other at least as much as Danish and Swedish.

>	I think, however, that the problem is modern linguists deem that Lapp does
>not fit so very well into the "pattern" of this language family, being
>rather different from the closest neighbouring language of the family.

The 'Lappish problem' is that the exact relationship between the Lappic
languages and the Baltic-Finnic ones (ie.  Finnish, Estonian, Carelian
&c.); in some respects they are quite close to each other, in some
respects a lot farther apart.  The traditional theory is that the
Finno-Ugric languages branch like this:

                                   Finno-Ugric
                             __________I____________
                             I                     I
                        Finno-Permic             Ugric
                      _______I_________	       ____I_____
                      I               I        I        I
               Finno-Volgaic   Proto-Permic  Ob-Ugric   I
              ________I________       I        I        I
              I               I       I        I        I
    Early Proto-Finnic        I       I        I        I
     _________I______         I       I        I        I
    I                I        I       I        I        I
Late Proto-Finnic  Lappic     I       I        I        I
    I                         I       I        I        I
Finnish                     Mordva   Komi     Hanti    Hungarian
Estonian                    Mari     Udmurt   Mansi
Et cetera

Another variant of this theory is that the Lappic languages separated
directly from the Finno-Volgaic proto-language, but stayed in close
contact with the Proto-Finnic and got numerous loans (maily words, but
also morphological structures) from them.  There are a couple more
theories about the Finno-Ugric family, but these are usually considered
the main ones. 

One of the newer theories is that the Finno-Ugric (or Uralic, ie. 
Finno-Ugric and Samoyed) peoples originally lived in the whole area
between Ural and the Gulf of Botnia, and that the languages began to
separate as the people discovered (or learned) agriculture and settled
down.  An interesting point is that the Lapps have some genetic traces
that point to the Ob-Ugric / Samoyed direction. 

--
Antti Leino                                Who appointed Santa?
University of Helsinki Computing Centre    How do we know he's impartial?
Antti.Leino@Helsinki.FI                          - Calvin
From: d1hej@dtek.chalmers.se (Henrik Jonsson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: The Swedenfinn seek official support from Finland
Date: 17 Dec 92 23:24:44 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg Sweden

ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:

>As the peak of all swedish faschism Ms. Anita Gradin declared publicly
>"Sweden is monolingual and remains monolingual". She is a prominent
>politician in Sweden, normally you heard such speeches in South-Africa
>and in Nazi-Germany but Sweden is no exeption. Her speeches however did

There you're right BUT in Sweden we have a special education
system for the "foreign" children in school... They get about 5 hours
a week where they see a special teacher, often in very small classes
with exeptionally personal help from the teacher, where they learn
their so called home-language even if they are immigrating from
some dark end of africa or even Finland.

This means that an "foreign" student costs aprox. two times the
average student at grundskolan which the swedish "workingclass-
heros" pay with their HIGH taxes!

In Nazi-Germany they killed people who didn't speak German, in Sweden we
just laugh at them ...:-)

- Henrik Jonsson aka. d1hej@dtek.chalmers.se

 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: m05751@foxtrot.data.st.statoil.no (Bjorn Hell Larsen)
Subject: Re: Want to learn to read and speak Norwegian. Recommendations?
Reply-To: bjla@statoil.no
Organization: Statoil, Norway
	<1992Dec14.094856.29451@ugle.unit.no>
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 11:54:39 GMT


In article <1992Dec14.094856.29451@ugle.unit.no> jafitv@termo.unit.no (Jan Arne Fagertun) writes:
>
>This is what I would call partly truth - swearing is a natural part of
>the language - I don't think "NORDLENDINGER" even notice they (we)
>swear :-)
>

I suddenly started noticing it when I married a girl from the deep
southwest. Had to give it up. Farsken og.

--
Bjorn Hell Larsen                              Specialization is for insects.
bjla@statoil.no		                                      -- Lazarus Long
STATOIL DATA/TD
Stavanger, Norway
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: hvaisane@cs.joensuu.fi (H. Vaisanen)
Subject: Re: How Finns look at the Swedes / suecophobia
Organization: University of Joensuu
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 06:31:46 GMT

Olli-Jukka Paloneva <opaloneva@abo.fi> writes:

>8 MPs of the Swedish
>People's Party, one Alander and 191 Finnish-speaking Finns.

Some of these 191 MPs who are not members of Swedish People's Party
are Swedish-speaking Finns.

PS Your keyboard has no RETURN key??? (-:
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: "So called home-language..."
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 08:06:38 GMT

Henrik Jonsson (d1hej@dtek.chalmers.se) wrote:
: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
: 
: >As the peak of all swedish faschism Ms. Anita Gradin declared publicly
: >"Sweden is monolingual and remains monolingual". She is a prominent
: >politician in Sweden, normally you heard such speeches in South-Africa
: >and in Nazi-Germany but Sweden is no exeption. Her speeches however did
: 
: There you're right BUT in Sweden we have a special education
: system for the "foreign" children in school... They get about 5 hours
: a week where they see a special teacher, often in very small classes
: with exeptionally personal help from the teacher, where they learn
: their so called home-language even if they are immigrating from
: some dark end of africa or even Finland.

"So called home-language"...are you going to build homelands for the non-
swedish, non-mother-tongue-speakers too? 
: 
: This means that an "foreign" student costs aprox. two times the
: average student at grundskolan which the swedish "workingclass-
: heros" pay with their HIGH taxes!
: 
And only the swedish mother-tongue speakers pay taxes?
regards,
jarmo ryyti
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: toast@lut.fi (Tomi Suurn{kki)
Subject: Mr.Ryyti
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 22:14:22 GMT
Organization: Lappeenranta University of Technology, Finland


	First, I've used to read this group only for about a year;
	i.e. the following opinions may not be correct.....


	I wanna thank Mr. Ryyti (don't kill me). For a long time, 
	this newsgroup was _dead_. But then Mr.Ryyti came up with
	his special postings, and that seemed to cause a chain
	reaction...this group is alive again. His (to some extent)
	naive opinions got as naive answers, and I've really enjoyed
	following the 'kinder-garten-fighting'. Thank you. Btw, I
	think that he is just fooling you...

	
	Another opinion. This is the only newsgroup, where people
	make fun of somebody's poor ability to use a foreign
	language. To correct the _fundamental_ mistakes is ok, but
	what goes further is _naive_. Using foreign languages
	(even Swedish :) ) is a great way of going international
	and showing interest to foreign cultures. Mistakes are
	unavoidable (this posting is a perfect example),
	and people who laugh at those, are....I can't find a 
	good word....


				The T.O.A.S.T of the town.

 


-- 




Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: momotaro@cwis.unomaha.edu (Bryan Stack)
Subject: Re: snipp snapp snute
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:48:26 GMT

olems@ulrik.uio.no (Ole Michael Selberg) writes:

>In article <1gk0khINN664@bHARs12c.bnr.co.uk>, sizex@stl.stc.co.uk (Eric
>Barber) wrote:
>> 
>> A play for children based on the Snow Queen by Hans Christian Anderson
>> is being performed the Newcastle-under-Lyme this Christmas. One
>> of the characters, the robber girl, says "snipp snapp snur" frequently.
>> Is that the beginning of the Danish for "snipp snapp snute, tiden er ute"
>> as said in Norway? Is it a folk-saying or does it have literary
>> antecedents?
>> 

>"Snipp snapp snute, saa er eventyret ute" is a set phrase that
>signals the end of many of Asbjoernsen and Moe's Norwegian fairytales.
>It's mentioned in Peder Syv's "Almindelige danske Ordsprog"
>(Common Danish Proverbs) (1682-88), 2,27. The Danish form would
>probably be "Snip snap snude, nu er mit eventyr ude".

>Michael

I believe someone once translated some of the Asbjoernsen & Moe stories
to English using the phrase "snip, snap, snout, this tale's told out."
I don't know if it existed in the language otherwise; it could have come
into English from Viking "guests."

--
>>> Bryan Stack, Government Documents Librarian, University Library
University of Nebraska at Omaha, Omaha NE 68182-0237 USA
Email: momotaro@cwis.unomaha.edu   Phone: 402-554-3258   FAX: 402-554-3215
         One of these days I'm going to stop procrastinating.
From: sizex@stl.stc.co.uk (Eric Barber)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Traditional Swedish Christmas song
Followup-To: soc.culture.nordic
Date: 15 Dec 1992 17:20:39 GMT
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, London Road, Harlow, England.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.199.200.40

In article <TORKEL.92Dec15172923@bast.sics.se> torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen) writes:
>In article <1992Dec15.153510.2729@cs.cornell.edu> elster@cs.cornell.edu
> (Anne C. Elster) writes:
>  In the English version, "Here we go round the mulberry bush". I suppose

I doubt that Here we go round the mulberry bush is a "cognate" of
the Scandinavian Christmas song. some of the verses -

'round and 'round the mulberry bush,
the monkey chased the weasel,
monkey thought 'twas all in fun,
"pop" goes the weasel.

up and down the City Road,
in and out the Eagle,
that's the way the money goes,
"pop" goes the weasel.

half a pound of tuppenny rice,
half a pound of treacle,
mix it up and make it nice,
"pop" goes the weasel.

Eric

Eric Barber			E.O.Barber@bnr.co.uk
BNR Europe Limited		6 742 3527
London Road			+44 279 403527/429531
Harlow, Essex CM17 9NA		England
From: d0chris@dtek.chalmers.se (Christer Borang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Sma grodorna
Date: 17 Dec 92 06:06:44 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg Sweden

lchoqu%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Lee Choquette) writes:
[zap]

>I dug out my mom's Bosse Larsson record, which was made in the '50's and has a
>couple of dozen ringlekar on it, like "Virgin virgin virgin virgin dear,"

Ehrr...Jungfru doesn't always mean virgin, it also means maiden,
which is the case in this song...:-)
Not as funny though. *grin*

//Christer
--
Det finns inget som g|r kvinnor s} vackra som alkohol och st{ngningsdags...
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: Stinks like a social democrat...
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 09:10:09 GMT

Jarmo Ryyti (ryyti@jyu.fi) wrote:
: Jonne Henrikki Kolima (joheko@jyu.fi) wrote:
: : 
: : 	Err...umm...does anyone remember a posting I sent to this
: : 	newsgroup a couple of weeks ago? I said things like: 'Jarmo
: : 	has sent quite ordinary postings lately' and 'Maybe you should
: : 	just ignore his postings'. Well, I take that back now. Flame
: : 	the moron senseless.
: 
: Much more insulting had been; stinks like a social democrat compared
: with smells like bat barf...

Namely the current assimilation policy of the Finns of Sweden
is a social democratical creation. What is strange that the Finns of Sweden
are working class people and one may suppose that the social democrats
were especially positive for not opressing working class people,
but when they are finns it seems to be an othere question.
When the last forest finn died even taht time  the social democrats
were in the governement in Sweden.

My humble theory is because the communists and social democrats have common
roots in marxist - leninism  "all the workers of world unite", also their
policy towards minorities have some common aspects.

In Soviet Union everyone had to become a true "soviet citizen".
Swedish social democratical variant for this is to make of all the finns
and other minorities of Sweden "true swedes",
integrate and assimlate them. The peak of this chauvinismus is to call
immigrants "new swedes" even if these people are not swedes at all!
I bet that the swedes think the the "new swedes" had to proud to get
such a difinition.

In Soviet Union the russians were suprised when the minorities appeared to be
unsatisfied when the real discussion was allowed.
The swedes are similar way very suprised when the situation in Sweden is told
from an other angle than theirs. In both countries leftist rule has been
for decades. Sweden will face still many suprises. 
tervised,
jarmo
From: tml@tik.vtt.fi (Tor Lillqvist)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: The Swedenfinn seek official support from Finland
Date: 18 Dec 92 07:38:59
Organization: Technical Research Centre of Finland, Laboratory for Information
	Processing (VTT/TIK)
NNTP-Posting-Host: tik.vtt.fi
In-reply-to: d1hej@dtek.chalmers.se's message of 17 Dec 92 23:24:44 GMT

In article <d1hej.724634684@dtek.chalmers.se> d1hej@dtek.chalmers.se (Henrik Jonsson) writes:
   where they learn
   their so called home-language even if they are immigrating from
   some dark end of africa or even Finland.

Bzzzzt!  You used the h-word!  Now Jarmo got somehing to start ranting
about again for another dozen of articles...
--
Tor Lillqvist,
working, but not speaking, for the Technical Research Centre of Finland,
Laboratory for Information Processing (VTT/TIK).
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
From: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic,alt.politics.ec,alt.politics.europe.misc
Subject: Re: Swiss Vote on EES !
Date: 12 Dec 92 11:41:19 GMT
Reply-To: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland

In article <CMM.0.90.2.723986645.jonnya@kjaglia.ifi.uio.no>, Jonny Axelsson <jonnya@ifi writes:
>Besides, Switzerland is the only country but Norway that has applied
>for, but won't join the EU, just as Lichtenstein like Iceland won't
>even apply and Greenland left.

Finland has applied as well, and it seems that if the decision is
based on the citizen's opinion, it won't join.

//Jyrki
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic