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Approved-By:  Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
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Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:15:14 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2575
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                          THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                               Issue # 2575

                           Monday, April 13, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******

                           Blink Talk Digest # 555

                                   Survey
                           Blind fold the sighted
                         Re: Blind fold the sighted
                          Anybody who is deaf-blind
                               Re: doggie news
                            Ham Radio Schematics
                                 QUESTIONAIR
                              Jailhouse blinks
                                   Survey
                            Re: New JAWS Release


                                ******


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                              Bill McGarry (Moderator)
                              (203) 337-1518



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Subject: Survey
From: Darrell.Shandrow@f59.n114.z1.fidonet.org (Darrell Shandrow)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:114/59 - Bob's Place, Mesa AZ


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

SM> Here are the questions:
SM> 1.  Who trained or taught you how to pour liquids--in particular, hot
 liquids,
SM> like tea, coffee, etc.--from one vessel (say, a coffeepot or teakettle) to
SM> another (say, a cup)?
I was taught at the state school for the blind.  I was later given new
information about the process through friends and suggestions from my
mother.

SM> 2.  What was the methodology used in your instruction (i.e., pour by weight,
SM> pour by sound, pour by estimation, use your finger, etc.)?
At the blind school, we were taught to use our finger.  However, other
sources showed me how to use the temperature to pour liquids in most
situations.

SM> 3.  Did you stick with that training or instruction afterward, or did you
SM> simply adhere to the taught techniques to get your instructor off your back,
SM> then you went off and did what you pleased?
In the blind school, I used the taught method.  However, now I use a
combination of the blind school method and the new one.  When there are
others around I use the cleaner (temperature) method.  However, if just
at home I use my finger detection method.

SM> 4.  What method are you using now?
As stated previously, a combination of both.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!114!59!Darrell.Shandrow
Internet: Darrell.Shandrow@f59.n114.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Blind fold the sighted
From: Steve.Matzura@f203.n2603.z1.fidonet.org (Steve Matzura)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:2603/203 - The Shop Mail Only, Flushing NY


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 > Blindness is a problem that is difficult to detect, unless you keep your
 > cane visible.

And that's where you're dead, dead wrong.  The way you stand, the
way you hold yourself, the way you address someone speaking to
you--hell, man, the way you handle a knife and fork!--is a dead,
dead giveaway that you can't see, especially to educated people
like what you're hanging around with, seeing as you're going to
college, right?  These people are not stupid!

Mind you, I am not saying that blindness is anything to hide, I'm
also not saying that it's something to be shouted out at every
passer-by.  It, as you said, is something to be dealt with, but
don't deal with it by living under the delusion that it's an
invisible disability--don't act like the bug-bladdered beast of
Traal from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy--the bug-bladder
beast of Traal thinks that if it puts a towel over its head and
can't see you, you can't see it, either!!!  That's not the way
blindness works--our disability, in case you haven't figgered it
out, which it sounds like you haven't, is obvious a block away and
dammit man, it scares some people off like you wouldn't believe.
You will learn this through that other college which we all must
attend, the COllege of Hard Knocks and Experience.

Steve Matzura

Via: FrontDoor 2.02

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!2603!203!Steve.Matzura
Internet: Steve.Matzura@f203.n2603.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Blind fold the sighted
From: William.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 SM> to you--hell, man, the way you handle a knife and fork!--is a
 SM> dead, dead giveaway that you can't see, especially to educated
 SM> people like what you're hanging around with, seeing as you're
 SM> going to college, right?  These people are not stupid!

Steve,
    I'm not saying I totally disagree with you, but on the other hand, I
don't totally agree with you either!

     First of all, by the legal definition of blindness, there are
people out there who are "blind", and who refer to themselves as
"blind", who show absolutely no visual signs of being blind in their
outward behavior!  Hell, I am sure that I was legally blind for months,
maybe years, before most people had any idea I was lacking in peeper
function, and other than hanging up the car keys, I didn't change that
much in my life to lead people to come to the conclusion!
     Secondly, there are still people who have served me in restaurants
or seen me in situations where I am fairly comfortable without
recognizing the fact I was blind till LeeRoy came out of hiding from
under the table as I was leaving!  This is neither something I am proud
of or embarassed by, just a fact, that's all!

     I think most of us here are familiar with the term "blindisms", and
if we're REAL honest with each other, we'll admit that each and every
one of us has them to varying degrees.  I no more think absense or
presense of them reflects our competancy than I think the Steelers are
going to win the SuperBowl next year, but most definitely, they do
affect the likliness of us being recognized as being blind by a casual
observer!

     No, blindness might not be an invisible disability in all cases, or
even in most cases given a long enough exposure, but I simply can't buy
your argument that it NEVER is!
                                                        Willie

... Like a bat out of Bellevue!

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89!William.Wilson
Internet: William.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Anybody who is deaf-blind
From: Brenda.Mueller@f1055.n261.z1.fidonet.org (Brenda Mueller)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:261/1055 - The Keeping Room, Baltimore MD


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Bill, I am rather puzzled.  I hope you don't mind me dropping in on
your discussion, but I'm interested and hope you don't mind. You
say: "We have a blind-deaf student just north of us but he has
beenprofoundly deaf annd blind since birth and will never be able
to use acomputer."  Why not? If there are cumputer systems that
produce output in braille, just as there is voice for other blind
users? I am not deaf, but I am blind, but at work I do not have a
voice computer.  For years I have been using an optacon to read the
screen and hope to have that output in braille verry verry soon.
The optacon will just be used for other things such as printed
material not in the computer.  Why can't he use a computer then, or
become a programer, if that's what he wanted to do? Perhaps it's
just a case of not knowing what's out there, and that's why you
have made the presumption you have made.  There could also be other
factors involved.  Well, we all have a lot of learning to do, and
there are people on this echo much more knowledgeable about
computers and everything out there than I.  If you happen to want
information on this topic and what's really out there, you've come
to the right place.  I have found the people on this echo to be
verry friendly and willing to help.  If I ever get really stumped
on something, I would not hesitate to post a question here.
Brenda.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!261!1055!Brenda.Mueller
Internet: Brenda.Mueller@f1055.n261.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: doggie news
From: Carol.Ashland@f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Carol Ashland)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/56 - The Overworked Drag, Portland OR


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

MR>  I knew someone who had a guide dog and he kept the dog tied up all of
MR>  the time.  This created a wild dog.  Noone could control him.  I just

Keeping a dog, guide dog or not, tied up all of the time is cruel!  Every
creature needs it's own space, it's own time to relax and run energy off.  I
have known at least one guide dog owner who kept his dog tied up all the
time, and it, too, was a wild, impetuous dog.  I would turn someone like
that in to the school, personally.

Carol

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!105!56!Carol.Ashland
Internet: Carol.Ashland@f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Ham Radio Schematics
From: Nancy.Feldman@p0.f605.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Nancy Feldman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/605.0 - Purgatory BBS, Salem OR


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

A friend of mine is studying for his Tech license and needs to know where
he can find braille schematics.  Can anyone help?

 * SLMR 2.1a * Fnord.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!105!605.0!Nancy.Feldman
Internet: Nancy.Feldman@p0.f605.n105.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: QUESTIONAIR
From: Rick.Alfaro@f8.n369.z1.fidonet.org (Rick Alfaro)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:369/8 - The Catwalk BBS, Davie FL


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

tHIS QUESTIONAIR IS FROM A STUDENT OF MINE WHO IS COMPLETING HER MASTERS.  sHE
 ASKED ME TO PLEASE POST THIS FOR HER SO THAT THOSE THAT WERE ABLE TO DO SO
 WOULD COMPLETE IT AND EITHER MAIL HER THE ANSWERS VIA u.s. mAIL, OR VIA
 NETMAIL HERE TO MY FIDO ADDRESS.  iF YOU WILL BE USING NETMAIL, YOU CAN SEND
 TO mARY iRVING AT 1:369/8.  tHANKS FOR YOUR INDULGANCE...

                           BLINK ALERT

I am doing a master's thesis and need the help of blind computer
users.  Please complete this questionair and mail it to me or put
it on E-mail.  Thank you for your help. I really do appreciate it.

1. age (fill in the appropriate letter here)
     a. under 20  b. 20 to 29  c. 30 to 39  d. 40 to 49  e. 50 to
     59 f.  60 to 69  g. 70 and older

2. Please  indicate f for female or m for male
3. State
4. City or County
5. Do you use a computer in your job or profession?
6. Is or was learning to use a computer part of your formal
education?
If not, please explain how and where you learned to use computers.
7. Does your community make computer literacy
available to blind and visually impaired persons,  e.g. in
libraries, adult education classes, or any other facility? Please
answer yes or no and explain any yes answer.

8. Please  indicate the things you are able to do with the use of
a computer which you, as a visually impaired person, would not be
able to do without sighted help.  If applicable please explain how
you have become more efficient and independent.

Mary Irving, 680 Lawrence rd. Delray Beach, FL 33445
On Internet or Telnet IN%"IRVING@FAUVAX.BITNET"<IRVING@ACC.FAU.EDU>
Compuserve 76456,1334

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!369!8!Rick.Alfaro
Internet: Rick.Alfaro@f8.n369.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Jailhouse blinks
From: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Freeman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/126 - Lawson & Reay, Vancouver WA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

In a message to Stew Bowden <18 Mar 92 03:57> Steve Matzura wrote:

 >> Steve: whatr is your position regarding
 >> blind persons convicted of
 >> criminal offenses? It seems to me that
 >> regardless of circumstance,
 >> the blind in this regard should be
 >> treated no differently from others

 SM> You're absolutely correct, I agree one thousand percent.
 SM> Visual acuity has no relationship to civil rights--that is,
 SM> if you don't have any of the former, it doesn't mean you
 SM> shouldn't have any of the latter.

 SM> Steve Matzura

Right on, Steve.  Nor does it mean that just because you haven't the
former implies that you shouldn't lose the latter should you commit an
offense that would result in a deprivation of rights were you not blind.
We agree.

Incidentally, one of the first blind people I can remember meeting
rented an apartment from my grandmother.  I don't remember what he was
doing for a living at the time but he was later convicted (and served
time) for bombing a department store.  Blind people are normal (or
abnormal) in the same way as everyone else.

Incidentally, har har, he was a good role model -- he carried a cane and
used it!

-Mike-
... *The National Federation of the Blind is changing what it means to be
 blind.*
___
 * CRR QWK 1.40 *

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!105!126!Mike.Freeman
Internet: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Survey
From: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Freeman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/126 - Lawson & Reay, Vancouver WA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi, guys.

I can guess which organization we are talking about <grin>.  Bear in
mind that that organization doesn't have (and never is likely to have) a
policy re cafeterias.  It's a matter of individual choice and
preference.  I know plenty of sighted people who won't go near a
cafeteria if they can help it for much the same reason as you guys.
And, as I said in a rather cryptic message the other day, in my
estimation, in Heaven, all meals will be catered and you'll be waited
upon by waitresses in miniskirts with size ... Oh, yes, this is a public
forum.  Anyway, some would interpret NFB philosophy to say that one
*must* go into these places and function at top-flight efficiency and
love it.  That's balderdash!  What I'd say is this:  one shouldn't let
blindness stop him/herself from going into such a place if that's where
one wants to eat.  But NFB philosophy doesn't require that everyone is
superproficient at everything.  Were that so, we'd be in better shape
than is the rest of the body politic.  All the NFB philosophy would say,
in my estimation, is that blindness doesn't make navigating such places
impossible.  But certainly it's easier to get help -- for everyone, not
just the blind.

I don't particularly like cafeterias where things are changed around all
the time, either.  I can handle them in a pinch but why do something I
do not enjoy if I have a choice?  There's no lytmus test to determine
Superblink status and, I suspect, if you'd examine those who purport to
be Superblinks, you'd find areas in which they are not skilled -- if we
all knew how to do everything, we'd have had a decent president (of the
USA) in the least quarter-century!

Roy, tell your friend to stick it up his/her aorta sideways.  Steve,
don't worry about it!

-Mike-
... ** In Great Britain, I'd be called a "White Stick Operator". **
___
 * CRR QWK 1.40 *

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!105!126!Mike.Freeman
Internet: Mike.Freeman@f126.n105.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: New JAWS Release
From: Kelly.Ford@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Kelly Ford)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 DT>         Thanks for pointing out the problem of j_load turning
 DT>         off the auto loading feature, I hadn't noticed that but
 DT>  you are right.  I also noticed that my old macro files from
 DT>  2.14 didn't work with 2.20 there should be a way to upgrade
 DT>  your macros without having to write all new ones. D. T.

Most of your JAWS 2.14 macros should work with JAWS 2.2.  The only thing
I had to do was add macros for the new 2.2 features like Color Bar
tracking, autoloading and Smart Screens to my 2.14 configs.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89!Kelly.Ford
Internet: Kelly.Ford@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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                                ******

             End of Issue # 2575 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU