HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 02:14:06 -0400 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Upenn against any CMU team
	<73733@netnews.upenn.edu>

>>I remember a game, fuzzily, before the INL even came into existance
>>where it was CMU's best verse Berkely's best played on an away server
>>for both (somewhere in the middle of the country I believe).  CMU
>>GENOCIDED in something like 30 minutes.  Done. Gone. A clueful team can
>>"easily" be genocided if the game is not played at home.  The difference
>>between me taking your agri home planet and my death has often been 1
>>torp....... And with lag your gonna miss!


>If I remember right, and I'm only going off what I heard other people 
>say, Berkeley was genocided while they were being ghostbusted.  If 
>this is what it takes for you guys to genocide, then you're pathetic.

In fact, there was no ghostbust in that game.  However, CMU has considerably
less lag than Berkeley, (Which is scary.  Our lag was pretty bad, with
occational burps of over 60 seconds.)
	An interesting note from that game is that EVERY Berkeley player had
a beter ratio than EVERY CMU player.
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen )
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: The Horsemen are.
Date: 11 Apr 92 06:56:24 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <EdtS=Om00VpIIj1lAb@andrew.cmu.edu> rl2j+@andrew.cmu.edu (Ray R. Lieu) writes:

>He forgot to mention our honorary horsemen....
>
>Yupa           =   War!
>Yea Boy!!! = Slaughter!
>
>Who will play with us in any non-CMU game....

Right! and our honorary Upenn members are Mojo, Helix, Lance, Wreck, and Duck
Dodgers.  Oh yeah, Sandia is now an honorary Upenn member...  What is this
bullshit of adding members to your team?  Get serious, folks.  I think your
normal Horsemen team is strong enough without adding more of CMU's top players.

FreeKill
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen )
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Scanning beams are the BEST!!!
Date: 12 Apr 92 17:10:18 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Apr8.182603.14118@ils.nwu.edu> shafto@ils.nwu.edu (Eric Shafto) writes:
>I love those scanning beams!  They don't use much in the way of fuel,
>and they are a lot of fun.  I use them all the time.  I have only one
>question, though.  What do they do?

What server are scanning beams implemented on?

Brian
Organization: Junior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 14:20:54 -0400 
From: Michael Juster <mj1g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: sfop vs the world
	<SFD.92Apr16143027@bezier.bezier.berkeley.edu>

Hey all....

I've never play the sfop robots but do they have the limitations of us
humans when it comes to fuel, wtemp, etc 

Unlike the standard server robots that have enuf fuel to kill 8 SB's :-)

-Mike
Admiral chi
Member of the INL Team "Team Akira"
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill)
Subject: Re: Ogging
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 92 13:35:28 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


> As a matter of fact I do play Bronco on occasion, but when I can rack up
> 5 kills in 1 min I get a little bored...
> 
> Oh by the way which KSU?  Kentucky or Kansas?
> either case your wrong... 
> 
> Oh does that make Mojo a Pussy? He plays our server on occasion?
> 
> =============================================================================
> --Tundra/Dan (Space Dabree) (Commander Guest)

Uh...i'd better respond to this before my reputation gets outta hand...:-)

My mouth--geez.  KSU isn't for pussies.  I may have said that on an all-board  
while i was playing, but thats coz some KSU player was bragging about how good  
he was, and he was geting toasted.  I don't appreciate that being posted here,  
that wasn't its intent.  (good thing i flammed him a few minutes ago..:-))

The KSU i was referring to is kansas, by the way.  Sure you can rack up 5 kills  
in 1 min on bronco...you can be a scum and do quite well.  The thing you don't  
understand is the TEAM fun.  In my opinion, most players on KSU-type servers  
don't get the team thrill.  The thrill of taking that last planet.  Sneaking  
behind enemy lines and ogging their taker.

From what i've seen, all that is done is a) scumming b) dogfighting.  On  
bronco, my ratio is .99.  I have over 10000 kills.  Now if i wanted to scum  
dogfight, i could probably average over 10 a ship.  That isn't the point...that  
isn't the fun.

What i've tried to do during my netrek career is make the opposing team FEAR  
me.  I generally have no desire to come into a game and scum 20 kills.  I do on  
occasion tho.  I think that the KSUers should try and play more for a TEAM  
game.

Rob
--Spaceace!
From: tom@ocf.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: CLASH OF THE TREK-TITANS '92
Date: 8 Apr 92 04:41:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.rtti0INNh96
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: lightning.berkeley.edu

In article <rts5eINN3ge@moe.ksu.ksu.edu> bav@hobbes.ksu.ksu.edu (Brick Verser) writes:
)
)(And maybe someday I'll make it to the bay area and you can invite me over
)for a lagless BB vs DD battle.  That or you can come visit Kansas, Tom; we'll
)even give you an IPC to play on.)

Actually, a high school buddy of mine went to The Other Kansas School and
now lives out there, so maybe I could wrangle a visit one day.  Hmm,
vacation in Kansas, maybe not.  Have to wait for the NCAA to sanction
the INL.
 -Tom
From: jc7o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joo C. Chung)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: The Horsemen are.
Date: 10 Apr 92 13:34:31 GMT
	<29E4E00B.10917@ics.uci.edu>
Organization: Sophomore, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 10-Apr-92 Re: The Horsemen are.
Tedd Hadley@osiris.ics.u (1000)


> A word if I may, brother, from the Holy Word Of God, Revelations chapter 6.

>    (ahem)

> The Horsemen of the Apocalypse!

> Verse 2:
> And I saw, and beheld a white horse: and he that sat on him had many kills;
> and an assault vessel was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and
> in Conquest!

> Verse 4:
> And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that
> sat thereon to take peace from the galaxy, and that there should be
> Destruction!

> Verse 5:
> And I beheld, and lo a Dark Horse--er, whoops wrong team. sorry folks.

> Verse 7:
> And I looked, and beheld a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death!,
> and Damnation! followed with him.  And power was given unto them over the
> fourth part of the galaxy, to kill with phaser, and with torpedo, and with
> Fear!, Famine! and Pestilence!, and with the fleet.

>    Amen.

> ++
>    Tedd Hadley (hadley@ics.uci.edu)


Wouldn't this depend on which bible is being used as well as how its 
being translated? So...some liberties could have been taken with the names .



Joo.

Yupa
Daigoro
Boo!
IBM RS/6000
War!
...
From: gc2n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Greg K Chung)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: plasmas?
Date: 16 Apr 92 02:17:53 GMT
Organization: Freshman, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

> Has anyone found a practical use for plasma torps in a typical bronco
> game? The only time I can think of is when you are defending planets
> from planet takers. Anything else?

> -Ceri
> ryche
> Fear!


Other than the dreaded but useless "Wall of Plasma", the only practical
use for plasma torps is to attack cloaked vessels.  Plasmas can track
some and thus can hit targets (which can't phaser the torp down), and
also leave a nice big explosion to lock onto.  I would probably have to
say that a plasma is useless outside of your side's controlled planets
due to the fuel constraints...but if you're close enough to refit, you
might as well pick up plasmas.

Here is my best use for a plasma torp:
Given a 2-on-1 situation (in your favor), especially if your 2nd ship is
hurt, a plasma can be a very good weapon...consider the practicality of
it:  The ogger or whoever is chasing down or otherwise attacking ship A.
 The attackers mouse cursor is going to be somewhere near A most of the
time.  If you can launch a plasma from the side or behind, the chances
of the attacker being able to move his cursor fast and accurately to
phaser it are reduced...with the help of tractoring the attacker away
from his target, you may be able to help save someone...(or just scum a
kill)...just a thought.

| o |
| o |  Received From: +gc2n@andrew.cmu.edu
| o |
From: fadden@xserver.uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: UDP and regions
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:14:02 GMT
Organization: Amdahl

In article <rogbpINNspl@agate.berkeley.edu>, tom@ocf.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:
|> In article <72763@netnews.upenn.edu> paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen ) writes:
|> )In article <1992Apr5.114245.17058@reed.edu> horde@reed.edu (Mr. Heiji Horde) writes:
[...]
|> )        Also, it appears that Bronco can't handle the UDP load - server lag
|> )is becoming a problem.
|> 
|> Yes, I've noticed this too, and I *seriously* doubt that our poor ol'
|> Sun 3/50s can handle the 'fat UDP' concept.

The added strain on bronco is probably due to the increasing number of people
who can play at 9 updates per second.  As UDP spreads it will probably be
necessary to change the server to restrict the #of updates per second to 7 or 5.

Fat UDP, in its current incarnation, will add at most 100 bytes to packets
which are 500 bytes or fewer.  This should not be a major problem.  At any
rate, the server diety can adjust the values.  Perhaps a future version will
have a way for the client to specify how much fat is acceptable (so people with
relatively clean connections can request a "lowfat" connection).

|> UDP the torp updates and ship updates.  TCP the rest.  That way you
|> can forget about losing packets, since nothing that can't be lost will
|> be lost.

Cough.  It ain't quite that simple, as I have discovered...  You'll see soon
enough.  BTW, netrek/socket.c is about 850 lines longer than it used to be.
ntserv/socket.c is about 1050.

v1.0 is officially *done*.  As soon as Tedd and Terence can verify that I
didn't blow it somewhere, I'll send out the source...  After that, you can
fiddle with it in any way you please...

|>  -Mojo  

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
From: parnes@gradient.cis.upenn.edu (Gary Parnes)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: I'm the BEST
Date: 13 Apr 92 05:08:31 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <73537@netnews.upenn.edu> paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen ) writes:

>By the way, FreeKill sucks.  His ratio is only at 0.76 and his ratings are
>barely higher than 5...  Of course, he scout bombed for about 1/5 of his total
>hours, and rarely planet scums, but that's no excuse... :)
>
>Brian

You bet he sucks.  I've seen Read Adm. Deathstar kick his ass all over
the place ;-)

						Commodore Raynfala
						(^^^ proof that rank != clue)
						Gary Parnes

/============================================================================\
| "You're obviously misinformed.  Everything    | Gary Parnes                |
|  EAST of the San Andreas Fault is going to    | Computer Science Engineer  |
|  fall into the ATLANTIC Ocean."               | University of Pennsylvania |
|  * INTERNET: parnes@grad1.cis.upenn.edu *     | *NOT* Penn State, Dammit   |
\============================================================================/

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick)
Subject: Re: Do people blink on the galactic map when beaming?
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 23:01:59 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
> For a long time now I've thought the standard bronco client (at least
> in monochrome) when playing on bronco will make ships blink on the
> galactic map when they are beaming up or down, and/or bombing.
> 
> Am I hallucinating? 

No.
From: jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Followup to Dtrek post (from long ago)
Date: 15 Apr 92 23:00:23 GMT
Reply-To: jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

mcn@b62103.student.cwru.edu writes:
>
>  Everyone remember dtrek? 

>  Basically, the game is a vastly improved--more strategically oriented  
>netrek... Lots more features... I've hacked it up, and fixed most of the bugs  
>that were in the distribution before.. (Now it actually works!) I'm continuing  
>to mess with this, so if you have any questions, please let me know! (Please no  
>mail about "It doesn't work on my ZZ-YY computer from 1943, fix it")
>
>  It's available on my anonymous ftp site  
>(b62103.student.cwru.edu:/pub/games/dtrek)

	I notice in the copyright that it's only supposed to be distributed
for HP machines (and seems to have been modified from xtrek by someone who
works at HP).  What is the story here?  Is this no longer the case, or should
I ignore it?

-- 
"Thus spake the Master Ninjei: If your application does not run correctly,
do not blame the operating system." - The Zen of Programming
-
Randell Jesup, Jack-of-quite-a-few-trades, Commodore Engineering.
{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!jesup, jesup@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com  BIX: rjesup  
Disclaimer: Nothing I say is anything other than my personal opinion.
From: tom@ocf.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: UDP and regions
Date: 8 Apr 1992 03:59:16 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: lightning.berkeley.edu

In article <955p02gfc0Nw00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden) writes:
)In article <1992Apr7.200037.8835@acsu.buffalo.edu> v119matc@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Claus Schwinge) writes:
)[ I wrote: ]
)>>v1.0 is officially *done*.
)
)>Does this mean it can be used in an INL match?  In our match vs Team Wizard,
)
)  I suggest that the INL servers have it added, so that when the
)finals roll around the games can be played with UDP.  Allowing it before then
)would be unfair, however.

Let's look at this in perspective.  There are only about 3 games that
really matter that haven't been played; Wizard at Bears, Duck at Akira,
and (to an extent) Duck at UPenn.  I agree that these games probably
should *not* be played with UDP, especially now that we've gotten
our butts whooped by Darkhorse (in a game with pretty bad lag).  
The playoffs will be (assuming we beat Wizard at home) the two
Berkeley teams, the three CMU teams, and the best other team.  The
bottom four will be wild cards and play each other in the first round;
the division winners will get a bye and play the winner of the wildcard
game.  At least, that's the system I've worked out...any objections?

  In any case, assuming there are no really strange upsets (and that
doesn't seem likely), most of the remaining games won't have a bearing
on the playoffs. So if any of y'all want to use UDP, I'm not gonna
yell at you.  And actually, I *personally* don't care if Akira wants
to set up a UDP server for their game against Duck (since it
has no direct bearing on our game against Wizard or Darkhorse).  
But I would say that it's probably better to save UDP for the
tournament; we'll all be there anyway.
 -Mojo
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: mcn@cwru.edu (Michael C. Neuman)
Subject: Re: Dtrek
Reply-To: mcn@b62103.student.cwru.edu
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 13:14:54 GMT

In article <flurr.703407273@vincent1.iastate.edu> flurr@iastate.edu (Todd N  
Maron) writes:
>    Has anyone ever got this game to work properly?  
[...]

  Well, myself and a friend have been hacking it for several hours daily since  
we got it about 3 weeks ago... There are some serious problems, but we're  
slowly working them out.

  The system is *not* set up on a socket based protocol. All processes must run  
on the same machine that the daemon is running on, and in order for it to work  
with multiple accounts, shared memory must be accessible to all users, not just  
the creator (I believe this is called Shared Memory Zones. Correct me if I'm  
wrong). 

  In our current version--ship verifications work fine, the daemon works, but  
must be run under the debugger (it catches BPTs, which for some utterly  
inexplicable reason are being signaled wildly), exiting processes are killed  
correctly, robots will enter, but will have a default ship of all 0's, which  
means it can't do anything. We've gotten a robot to enter ONCE with a real  
ship--fairly impressive... If you hurt it pretty bad, it runs into a nebula,  
does a pretty good job of elluding you, and when you exit the nebula, you see  
the robot on the other side running for a repair planet...

   I'll be releasing the new version of the source as soon as we track down the  
problem with the robots. Pretty much everything but robots should work under  
the version available at my anon ftp site  
(b62103.student.cwru.edu:/pub/games/dtrek). The game is still deep in alpha,  
but I'm hoping a few hackers will pick it up and work some of the obvious bugs  
out that I don't have time to fix.

--
Mike Neuman                mcn@b62103.student.cwru.edu
			   NeXTmail accepted!!!
"To make a machine that will be proud of us." - Thinking Machine's motto
From: paulsen@widget.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen )
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Team Wizard (was Re: Penn and the INL)
Date: 10 Apr 92 22:47:32 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <0dtHLAG00VpZ06iktU@andrew.cmu.edu> cd2a+@andrew.cmu.edu (Court Demas) writes:

>We had Darkhorse (a _clueful_ CMU INL team) down to their last planet
>with 45min left in the game.  If we had taken the game seriously we
>would have genocided easily.  A team like UPenn has absolutely no hope
>against us.  

You keep thinking that, and just ponder later on how you could never genocide
us.  Also, ponder later on how you can't ever get more than our core planets.

Also, looking at the team roster for Darkhorse, I'm surprised that you could
keep them at the home planet.  Maybe, they didn't take the game seriously.
I suspect you didn't genocide them because they didn't want to be embarrased.
You guys are on more of an ego trip than me if you think you can genocide an
agri home planet against a clueful team...

FreeKill
From: kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu (Kevin Michael Bernatz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: UPenn vs Duke
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:31:25 GMT
	<72718@netnews.upenn.edu>
Organization: Junior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 5-Apr-92 Re: UPenn vs Duke Brian
Paulsen @eniac.sea (1553)

> Also - the night before also gets Clue Game of The Year Tie...
> It was most of The Horsemen with Mr. Wizard replacing a player, and a lt.
> cmdr. replacing somebody.  They were the Kli's

> The Roms were
> Val Ckurai
> Sunny
> FreeKill
> Streaker
> Farthez
> I forgot the other 3, but while they did not have rank, they had clue... which
> is always preferable :)

> >
> >Rob
> >--Spaceace!


Hee, I was also in that game as Kling.    I believe I was playing
Captain Arbiter Bellum (Latin for Authority in War).   


-KB
 Captain of Team Akira
From: paulsen@widget.seas.upenn.edu (Admiral deathstar)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Do people blink on the galactic map when beaming?
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:56:41 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Apr16.222341.17453@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>For a long time now I've thought the standard bronco client (at least
>in monochrome) when playing on bronco will make ships blink on the
>galactic map when they are beaming up or down, and/or bombing.

People do in fact blink when beaming.  When they do not beam up armies, the
ship is drawn normally over the planet.  However, when the army number on
the planet changes (such as during beaming), the planet is redrawn.  The
next update, the ship is again redrawn over the planet.  This gives rise to
the blink effect.  It is actually quite obvious when someone is beaming if
you can watch the galactic map.  Watch over a friend's shoulder some time as
they play, you will easily see the blinking.

>Am I hallucinating? It seems to work.

You aren't hallucinating.  Just watch the map for blinking not for changes in
army numbers.  You'll catch the army carriers all the time.  It's hard to do
during combat, though.

Brian
From: hadley@osiris.ics.uci.edu (Tedd Hadley)
Subject: Re: The Horsemen are.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Organization: UC Irvine Department of ICS
Date: 10 Apr 92 00:23:39 GMT

In <s2apfINN3m5@agate.berkeley.edu> labc-3ae@web-2h.berkeley.edu (Superman) writes:


>So who are the horsemen?

A word if I may, brother, from the Holy Word Of God, Revelations chapter 6.

   (ahem)

The Horsemen of the Apocalypse!

Verse 2:
And I saw, and beheld a white horse: and he that sat on him had many kills;
and an assault vessel was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and
in Conquest!

Verse 4:
And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that
sat thereon to take peace from the galaxy, and that there should be Destruction!

Verse 5:
And I beheld, and lo a Dark Horse--er, whoops wrong team. sorry folks.

Verse 7:
And I looked, and beheld a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death!,
and Damnation! followed with him.  And power was given unto them over the
fourth part of the galaxy, to kill with phaser, and with torpedo, and with
Fear!, Famine! and Pestilence!, and with the fleet.

   Amen.

++
   Tedd Hadley (hadley@ics.uci.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jdz1@Ra.MsState.Edu (John D. Zitterkopf)
Subject: FAQ: Where can I find a copy? 
Organization: Mississippi State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 04:18:46 GMT
Expires: Sat, 30 May 1992 05:00:00 GMT

Hi,
	Simple question So I'll keep it short. What is this game and WHERE
do I find the FAQ?

Thankyee,
John
P.S. Email me...


--
 ____________   _------_  |||IBM & |      EE majors Do it Best 8-)
  --------\\ ] ~-______-~ |||Atari |~~~~~~~~~John D. Zitterkopf~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     (~~~~~\\|_(__ ~~    / | \Rules!jdz1@ra.MsState.edu  jdz1@MsState.bitnet
      \______| (        /  |  \    |   MLzitter@Arrakis.EE.Msstate.edu
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen )
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: THE HORSEMEN ARE....
Date: 11 Apr 92 06:52:08 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <kdtS6Ue00VpI4j1kcZ@andrew.cmu.edu> rl2j+@andrew.cmu.edu (Ray R. Lieu) writes:
>Hey guys,

>I just want to say...

>I talk a lot of talk, because I KNOW I can walk the walk....

I can walk the walk myself...

>and you guys are REAL IGNORANT if you think you can challenge us,
>hear us say we'll thrash you, and then say you're bored of the whole
>thing and blow it off.....

MY (FreeKill) original challenge was meant so that I could enjoy a high clue
game.  However, I also told the people in my original challenge that a match
would be highly unlikely due to time.  I've never wavered from this position.

Whatever Hector said in a game besides what he said when I was there, I'm
unaware of.  What he said while I was there is being blown out of proportion.
Clearly his comments were in jest, and you guys seem to have trouble taking a
joke...  However, if he has said the comments in seriousness, then you might
have a case.

>So Hector, Chalk this up as a lesson learned, son:
>
>DON'T PLAY WITH THE BIG BOYS!!!!! 
>before you're ready cause you'll look DUMB!!!!

The only time I've had trouble with the Horsemen is when they all go on one
side, and my team has clueless morons.  They are not immortal.

FreeKill