From: spice@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.datacomm
Subject: Re: "64 Mentality" vs "PC/Corp Mentality"
Date: 10 Apr 92 04:43:17 -0400
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <6cVyiB1w164w@lakes.trenton.sc.us>, rock@lakes.trenton.sc.us (Rockerboy) writes:
> spice@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu says:
> 
>>Please spare me the "I'm actually doing the world a favor by pirating"
>>BS , Rockerboy. I've heard it used before as a justification for 
>>piracy and it was BS then just as it is BS now. I guess this is how 
>>you justify stealing someone else's work. 
> 
> You really _are_ a moron, aren't you?  You _must_ be.  I do not recall
> posting _anywhere_ a declaration that I am a "pirate", and have in fact
> denied it.  Makes it obvious that conversing with you is a total waste of
> time.  As do most people who simply want to fight instead of debate, you
> ignore points made by the opposition, cite facts not in evidence, use 
> wild
> generalization to support your assumptions, then pat yourself on the back
> as clever and oh so morally right.  You know, I really think that you
> feel I don't have the right to _believe_ as I do.  Obviously you feel
> terribly threatened.  Oh, lower life forms like yourself often lash out
> violently when their fragile world view is threatened, so I'm not 
> terribly
>>Sorry , Rockerboy (by the way do you have a real name , why dont you 
>>use it instead hiding behind a "rad-kool" handle?) the reason the C64
>>has lasted so long is that most C64 owners ,especially the pirates 
>>couldnt afford to move to another platform as you yourself admit further
>>on in your post.
> 
> Another asroundingly ignorant comment.  (As if a person would not have a
> name.  What a dweeb.)  More citation of facts not in evidence.  (What
 

If you have a real name , why not use it? For someone who is so keen
on having a a proper debate it sure is strange to hide behind a handle.
Do you wear a mask , use a voice distorter and insist on anonymity when
you "debate" someone in person as well? How cowardly. How chickenshit.
What's your real name and why dont you sign it to your posts? If you
really believe it what you are saying then you should have the guts to
sign your real name to your opinions. Stop ducking my question.


> proof
> do you have that my use of a pseudonym is done to protect my identity?)
> And more wild generalizations.  (I'm certain you know all 64 owners and 
> can
> personally attest to the fact that all those who pirated were poor.  This
> is also a twisted logic, as it matters little even if you _could_ prove 
> all
> pirates are poor.  The salient point would be if you could prove all poor
> people were pirates.  One does not imply the other.  And I suppose you 
> also
> believe that piracy is almost nonexistent on the IBM/Mac.  Get a clue.)
> 
> To address your idiocy in greater detail:
> 
> "Rockerboy" is who I am.  It has nothing to do with hiding my identity.  

It has everything to do with hiding your identity.

> It
> is simply what I am called, and more people know me by Rockerboy that by 
> my
> real name.

I'm sure your driver's license , your credit cards and other forms
of id and of course your paycheck all have the name "Rockerboy" on
them instead of your real name , right (sarcasm intended)?

> Since it has no importance, I don't use it.  Rockerboy is too
> long to fit as a username, thus in order to be recognized, I use the full
> name.  Get it?  It has nothing to do with hiding.  Yet another example of
> wild generalization and citing facts not in evidence.  You presume that
> because many people use handles to mask their identities, I do as well, 
> and
> by extension, so does everyone else who uses a handle.  You are obviously
> one of those people who is incapable of understanding that some of us use
> handles simply because we _want_ to.  Because they are more interesting
> than names.  You didn't choose your own name, and it says nothing about 
> you
> or who you might be, or what your interests are.  It conjures no
> interesting pictures.  That's why I prefer handles.  Since you're 
> obviously
> a fairly dim witted fellow, and seem to have no apreciation for the fact
> that many people participate in the nets for _diversion_, I don't expect
> you to understand.

Still ducking the question of your real name and why you wont sign
it to your posts. Got to admit you did a decent job of trying to
avoid answering me though.

 
>>This has got to be the most self deluded bunch of BS I've ever seen on 
>>the net. You really think that people are stupid enough to buy your line
>>about pirates being the defenders of the weak , downtrodden poor
>>masses against the evil monolithic rotten corporations and governments?
>>You and your 15 year old buddies may swallow it but no one else does.
>>Since you are such a fine defender of the poor , oppressed masses 
>>how many of those masses have you allowed to use your computer? Have
>>you ever taken your computer into an inner city school to allow those 
> kids
>>kids whose parents will never be able to afford even a C64 a little 
>>experience with a computer? Have you donated software or hardware 
>>that you no longer use to charity? Tell us all about the wonderful
>>things you and your pals have done for the poor and disadvantaged 
>>besides pirating the latest Psygnosis game.
> 
> What is the point of _this_ little tantrum?  Baffle 'em with BS?  How 
> many
> holes can I knock in this one, I wonder.  Gawd, more than I really want 
> to
> bother with, but I might as well get started.  
> 
> Where is _anything_ said about pirates being defenders of the weak and
> downtrodden.  What I _did_ say was that they serve their uses.  Your
> problem is that you're so brainwashed by the corporate propaganda that 
> you
> actually buy statements like "piracy=theft", etc.

If you arent painting pirates as defenders of the weak and downtrodden
why do you continually use rhetoric that describes them that way? Jack
Radigan also picked up on it , he called it pseudo-hippy something or
other when replying to a post of yours. All your posts and even your
signature reeks of the stereotype of the strong , brave individualist
fighting the good fight against the evil , elitist corporations and
governments in the name of the people. If you have another BS 
rationalization for your piracy use it instead. 

> I also said that your
> complaint of cheap computers was a load of crap, an elitist, rich boy
> attitude.  I cannot imagine being so rich that I would pay more that
> something was _worth_ to prevent the masses from having it.  You're out 
>

I guess that you and your pirate buddies are among that elite (is that
what "elite" means to you and your friends(sarcasm)) who gets to
decided how much a piece of software is really worth not the
programmer or marketing company. Of course by you and your pirate
buddies lights no piece of software should sell for more than $25.
I cant even count the number of times I've seen posts suggesting
that that is what all software should be selling for. There was one
is this newsgroup recently.

One more thing , Rockerboy. You arent representative of the masses
since only 25% or so of American households own a personal computer.
That leaves 75% without a computer and I think that 75% is 
more representative of the masses that 25% , dont you? While some
of that 75% dont own a computer because that dont want to , a 
sizable part of that percentage of probably cant afford any 
home computer.

 of
> touch with reality to suggest it.  As I believe quite a few people (who
> also took offense at your flatulent diatribe) have pointed out, Apple 
> makes
> plenty of overpriced dinosaurs to appease the idiot within you.  I have
> trouble believing anyone would miss you.


Yes , and the Mac is still too expensive even with Apple's price cuts
for you and your pirate buddies to afford. If the Mac was as cheap
as the Amiga you and your buddies would be on it like a shot. But 
since Apple charges >$1000 for a Mac Classic and even more for a
decent machine with color (unless you can get a student discount)
its completely out of the price range of the ex C64 pirates like
you.

I doubt any individual Amiga owner will be missed except for people
like Fred Fish , Willy Langeveld , Dave Haynie ,etc who have made
big contributions to the development of the Amiga and its 
marketplace.  I dont have the delusions of grandeur that you and
your buddies have by naming yourselves the "Elite" and calling
everyone else "lamers". But the 3rd party Amiga developers will
miss all the people like me who actually buy their software 
instead of pirating it and who are thinking of leaving the Amiga
market or have already left. Take a look in comp.sys.amiga.marketplace
or comp.sys.amiga.advocacy to see how many Amiga owners 
are going to other systems. 

If this continues to happen the software developers will soon follow
leave you and your pirate friends as the last bastion of Amiga owners
just as you were the last bastion of C64 owners (except for Eastern
Europe). Then I guess you'll keep your Amiga's until the Mac or 3/486
PC clones become cheap enough for you to afford.


> I will simply ignore the rest of this ranting, since it's obviously
> completely unconnected to anything relevant.
> 
>>And while you are liberating software for the downtrodden masses why
>>dont you liberate hardware as well. As I stated above there are many
>>people who cant even afford a C64 so why dont you provide them
>>with hardware? Could it be that the reason you dont provide hardware
>>to the masses is that the chances of getting caught are much greater
>>when stealing hardware compared with the almost infintesimal chances
>>of getting caught stealing software? Performing a B&E (breaking and
>>entering) on your local Commodore dealership or on the home of a local
>>Amiga owner tends to draw in the police unlike software theft.
> 
> More propaganda, hmm?  As I believe I have pointed out before, regardless
> of the legality of copyright infringement, it is _not_ theft.  Theft
> implies the actual criminal misappropriation of material goods.  I agree
> that theft is and should remain illegal.  I do not necessarily feel the
> same about copyright violations.  I believe I have already explained my
> position on this, and since _you_ have already proved you have no 
> intention
> of listening to any discussion on the matter, it would be pointless to
> repeat it.


Nope , you dont steal hardware because there's a significant chance of
getting caught and getting punished which isnt the case when
stealing software. After all , the chances of the police breaking
your door down when you copy a program from a friend or download it
from a pirate BBS are microscopic. If stealing hardware was as easy
and risk free as stealing hardware you and you friends would do
that too.

>>Yep and Jack has the courage to sign his real name to his posts unlike 
>>you. But of course a handle is de-rigeur for the rad-kool dudes on the
>>the local BBS and in the pirate scene. That's why I dont even bother
>>with using BBS's for the most part. There are way too many people
>>like you who hide behind handles and stir up trouble.  
> 
> Now I _know_ I already addressed this one.  Repeating yourself, now?  
> Hmm,
> another sign of mental infirmity.  And you don't use bbs?  Why am I not
> surprised?  I imagine you have gotten kicked off quite a few for latching
> on to someone with whom you disagree and pounding them until the sysop
> steps in and cancels your account.  

Sorry Rockerboy , but the reason I stopped using BBS's was the presence
of WAY too may dweebs like you who go completely wild behind a 
computer keyboard because of the anonymity it offers. This is the 
same reason a lot of sysops have shut their boards down or gone to
very strict methods of verifying a user's identity such as requiring
a photocopy of a driver's license.

Also, most bbs don't kowtow to the
> corporate politically correct viewpoint, so doubtless you would feel 
> pretty
> uncomfortable anyway.  PC/Corp means you defend everyone's rights except
> those of people who disagree with you.  Sounds pretty descriptive of
> you.
> 


> "Sometimes what you say is going to fly right in the faces of the 
> powerful people who really run this world, but you don't care...you know 
> it's your place to challenge authority..."
> 
>                              Rockerboy


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Perfect example of the rationalization of piracy that you and your pirate
buddies use. Still trying to pose as the defenders of the poor and 
the weak.


                              Scott Corley

spice@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu