From: sasha@ldgo.columbia.edu (Alexander Krupitsky)
Subject: Ty ne prav, Vadim!
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:18:15 GMT

	Vadim Antonov writes:

>In article <Bx6ErE.MwE@news.cso.uiuc.edu> didinsky@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (didinsky garry) writes:
>> I guess I do not understand what one means when he says "state antisemitism".
>> In the later part of your posting, you state that after Israel announced
>> that all Jews are its potential citizens Soviet government decided that all 
>> jews are potentially dangerous to the Russian security. To me that sounds 
>> like "state antisemitism", i.e., "state prejudice towards Jews".

>This particular kind of prejustice wasn't limited to Jews. ANY
>person who had ANY contacts abroad (relatives, friends, etc)
>was in the very same position. 

Right, not limited, but mainly applied to Jews. 

>Need i to tell you that there
>was a numer of Russians abroad from "the first wave" of emmigration --
>their relatives usually ended up in Siberian camps. Now tell me
>that Jews were opressed MORE. 

Good point but we are talking about post-Stalin times, aren't we?

>The state itself was quite
>unaware of nationality -- thanks to the Israel government it
>became an earmark of "suspicious". Try to think of the Soviet
>System as of soulless and cruel machine for which all people
>are nothing more than small gears. It really was working this way.

You don't need to convince us in that. We know. BTW, from the
practical point of view there was no difference between Jew and
non-Jews from the point of view of prospective emigration. The process
was fully controlled by the state. At the same time, anybody who
managed to get abroad and ask for asylum would have gotten it
regardless his/her nationality until about 1987. And yet - you
wouldn't contest it - it was much harder for a jew to get security
clearance. 

>Now, some recognized enemy comes in and points finger to specific
>group of people saying "those are mine". What do expect from
>the machine?

Here you are: you said it! Machine is called state. No matter what the
reason was, the machine (state) went against Jews and we call it
state-antisemitism. If you prefer some other name, it's your choice,
and there is not much left to discuss.

>Unfortunately
>many of those "anti-semitism" complaits basically contains accusations
>against other nations and Russians in particular which are simply
>undeserved. 

Who accused Russians? Here we accused Soviet state only, as far as I
remember. 

>Try to understand that EVERYBODY in xSU was an "opressed minority".
>There are infulential organizations like Helsinki Group helping all
>victims of political repressions DESPITE of their nationality.

I guess I know what you mean. Let me offer my formula for that. Every
decent and honest man belonged to "opressed minority". Another part of
the story is that Jews (and some other nationals too) belonged to this
"opressed minority" by default. Agree?

>An average American if asked who was opposing the Soviet regime
>will answer "Why, Jews". It implies that all others are morons
>who hate Jews beacuse they're Jews.

Whatever average American says it's not important, because he doesn't
know too much.

>This self-centered and racist perception of the pheomenon of
>totalitarism not only misled the entire world and prevented
>people from understanding (and therefore effective opposition) 
>to communism it actually costed lives to people who really
>were opressed and broke careers of many Jews who weren't
>political activists.

This is not true. Major crimes of communism were commited before
"Jewish problem" (re)appear. So the world had a perfect chance to
oppose commies before WWII if it wanted. I must tell you, Vadim, that
I find your perception of history racist.

>I simply discard the notion of "soviet anti-semitism" as an
>phenomenon caused by ethnical intolerance of Russians. 
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wait a minute!!! Who said it?

>The
>state antisemitims siply could not exist simply because it wasn't
>a nationalistic state. 

Disagree. It could and existed. Your statement doesn't go as axiom. 

>Don't you think that resurrection of antisemitism in Germany
>after WWII was mostly caused by Jews who keeps reprimaning people
>of crimes their grandfathers did? Nobody forgot. What happened

>Don't you think that resurrection of antisemitism in Germany
>after WWII was mostly caused by Jews who keeps reprimaning people
>of crimes their grandfathers did? Nobody forgot. What happened
>you can't mend. But if you're trying to live on it forever you'll
>be basically telling the people that they're shit because of
>what THEIR nation did to YOURS. 

So they'd be better off keeping their mouth shut and never remember
what happened. Very nice.

>It implies the idea of superiority
>of one nation over another ...

Not at all, IMHO.

>..."They dissed us, they put us down" ALWAYS assumes
"Let's reach out and kill 'em". Understood?

As for commies I truly wouldn't mind them go down the drain.

>--vadim

			Sasha

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