From: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Slagle)
Subject: Re: Why can't the liberals just admit that public education has failed?
Reply-To: slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com
In-reply-to: pajerek@telstar.kodak.com's message of 14 Jan 93 18:10:49 GMT
Organization: You wouldn't ask this if you'd seen my desk.
	<SLAGLE.93Jan13134049@sgi417.msd.lmsc.lockheed.com>
	<1993Jan14.181049.21423@kadsma.kodak.com>
Distribution: usa
Date: 26 Jan 93 00:52:55

In article <1993Jan14.181049.21423@kadsma.kodak.com>, pajerek@telstar.kodak.com (Don Pajerek) writes:

> In article <SLAGLE.93Jan13134049@sgi417.msd.lmsc.lockheed.com> slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com writes:

>>In other words, according to Shanker and most of the educationist
>>crowd, the purpose of the public schools is not to teach skills
>>and ideas, it is to socialize kids properly.  Different goals,
>>different results.

> Give me a break.

Sure.  Why not?

> I agree completely that too much responsibility for too many different
> things has been piled on top of the schools. To suggest, as you do,
> that the schools see as their one and only mission the socialization
> of students is ridiculous.

I suggest no such thing.  I suggest that many, though happily not
all, in the education establishment see it as an important goal
of public education.  But you excised the quote from AFT
president Shanker that demonstrates just this point.

> Besides, socialization must to a certain extent take place in the
> schools, whether it's on your approved list of topics or not. 

I could do without the cant.  I didn't draw up a list of "approved
topics" and I have no objection to children learning to get along
with other people.  But if "socialization must ... take place in 
the schools" in any case, a proposition with which I agree, then
why does Mr. Shanker worry so that it can't be accomplished in 
any schools system except the public one (in the quote that
you removed)?

> Perhaps your alternative calls for 100% individual tutoring in
> physically separate environments, where each student can work on
> learning 'skills and ideas' without the distracting presence of
> other students. Is this how private schools do it?

Don't put words into my mouth.  The only "alternative" that I
have offered is one where parents can choose where to send their
children to school.  I, unlike those on the opposite side of this
discussion, have not arrogated to myself the authority to decide
this for them.  If some choose individual tutoring, presumably for
their own good reasons, then I would have no objection.  This is
sometimes done, but as you surely know, despite your sarcastic
question, that is not the rule in private schools.

I understand why the teacher unions and the educationists are 
threatened by school choice proposals, but I still don't see
why you are so threatened by it that you would stoop to this
sort of snotty misreading of my comments.  Care to offer a
little reason and enlightenment instead of sarcasm?  If so I'll
be glad to consider it.  But if all you've got is more of the
same, then I'd prefer you keep it to yourself.

=Mark
--
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Mark E. Slagle                                 PO Box 61059
slagle@lmsc.lockheed.com                       Sunnyvale, CA   94088
408-756-0895                                   USA
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