From: liqiang@kramden.nyu.edu (Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Territory of Ancient China : Tang Dynasty
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:42:55 GMT
Organization: New York University

lix@yangtze.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li) writes:

>In article <92Sep9.100531edt.128@orasis.vis.toronto.edu> liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep9.022715.24826@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
><>In article <95545@bu.edu> lix@xanadu.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li) writes:
><(deleted)
><>
><>Unfortunately (he did have good intentions, but...) the abolishment of Rou
><>Xin caused more deaths, according to what I read, since the punishment was
><>then changed to whipping, which often resulted in deaths.

>Mr. Lu is right, but what I said is his awareness of human rights presented
>in his order. 
><>
><Liu Hen was a good emperor, but Han Dynasty's military was in a sad
><shape, china was still exhausted, Xiong Nu plunders the north at will,
><it was similar to the situation Li Shi Ming faced, but the Tang Dynasty
><managed to change from fending off the Tu Jue from 20 miles of its
><capital to wipe them out a couple of years later, with an exhausted
><country also.  You have to say that militarily Liu Hen or his son(Jin Di)
><was no comparison to Li Shi Ming, only until Liu Che(Wu Di) Han started
><to acquire the capibility of defending itself.  

>Nah, Liu Che did too much more than defending. He even started war at his
>free will, and finally spent over all national reserves accumulated since
>Liu Hen. This is also exactly the pattern of QianLong to KangXi.

><>>Similarly, KangXi is another surprise in Chinese history. No other
><>>emperors ever understood and taught his offsprings:
><>>
><>>Emperor is to manage the country,
><>>not the country to serve the emperor.
><
><Li Shi Ming was the first to speak the truth about the relation
><between the Emperor and his subjects:  Water can carry the ship,
><but it also can overturn the ship.  

>This is exactly why KangXi is superior to TaiZong: In TaiZong's mind,
>people can be used, but may also present as a danger, if the emperor
>did not take care of them well enough. This is good, better than other
>emperors. However, the master-servant relation was reversed only in
>KangXi's couplets.
><>
><>Hmmm.  I am not sure the Liu Hen had any understanding of democracy, and
><>although he was an excellent emperior (IMO), he once almost executed the
><>entire family (the 3 Zu's) of a man accused of cutting a tree on the tomb of
><>his father, Liu Bon (Han Gou Zu).  Of course, everyone had their blemishes.

>In any dynasty, cutting tree on emperors's tomb would be similarly punished:-(
>This was very severe crime at that time.

><>Another emperor who ranks high on my list is Liu Shiu (Han Guang Wu Di).  His
><>personality showed a lot of kindness and non-forgetfulness of the good things

>Yeah, I think GuangWu should be ranked about the same level of TaiZong, the
>first rate emperors, while Han Wen and KangXi are super-rate.

>-- 

All the emperors mentioned are emperors with achievements. Discussions
on comparisons among them are absurd and unproductive and also biased.

- Li, Qiang
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china