HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Hats off to Meggy
Date: 16 Aug 92 00:41:14 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1992Aug15.202512.1038@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> mb2p@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Marco  Bertamini) writes:


> I'm glad you pointed out that applying these concepts to humans
> is difficult. The main reason is that you need to take into account
> how they perceive your behavior. Spanking a kid who is trowing stones
> can be a positive reinforcement if the kid is mainly looking for
> attention.

Pointless, unscientific and pseudo-Freudian. Freud's so-called
'theories' cannot even be considered such since they are
not 'falsifiable'. A theory must be falsifiable in order to
be even considered a theory. Hence 'There is a God' cannot
be a theory. You cannot disprove it.  Popper has done a
great job on this (and on Freud, as I remember).

Specifically, a person (child) has to consider the consequences
of throwing rocks and make a trade-off between getting 
attention and getting spanked. It still boils down to:

Positive feedback is neither necessary nor sufficient.
Negative feedback is sufficient (by itself) and also necessary.

A system's behavior cannot be controlled by positive feedback
alone. 

> This example is not out of place. There are terroristic actions 
> that have no meaning but to bring international attention to a
> particular problem.

It seems negative feedback has done a pretty good job of
stopping it. I've already written that how much negative
feedback is necessary and whether it should be used is
a difficult problem. But what I wrote about feedback still
remains valid.


> violence begets violence may be simplistic, but so is your
> statement that negative feedback is the ONLY way the solve
> an international problem.

You said this. I rewrote what I wrote again.


> As to the justice system, I do not know of a clear negative 
> correlation between the severity of the system and the number 
> of crimes. Of course a justice system is necessary, but its
> efficency depends much more on its fairness than on its guns.

What I stated remains valid. What you're getting into
now is the 'transfer function--impulse response--Green's function"
which has to do with the internal characterization of the
system in question.

A thinking human being (and they all do) 'evaluates' the 
intensity/magnitude of the feedback depending on expected
outcome (reward), and attitude toward risk.

A hungry man is more likely to steal food than a well-off
person. If the expected outcome is very high even the well-to-do
may become thieves (i.e. millions of dollars). And finally
this has to be tempered with attitude toward risk. Some
people are naturally more prone to take risks (upbringing).

This still doesn't negate what I stated about systems and
feedback. They remain valid.
-- 

	mark	


   hubey@pilot.njin.net                   hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
 ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey                  hubey@logos.montclair.edu
From: armagan@sassafras (Armagan Ozdinc)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Futbol - TSYD KUPASI
Date: 17 Aug 92 14:42:05 GMT
Reply-To: armagan@prc.unisys.com
Organization: Paramax Systems

Her yil sezon baslamadan once yapilan ve sezonun ilk resmi maclari
olarak kabul edilen TSYD kupasi gecen hafta oynandi ve alinan sonuclar
soyledir:

Galatasaray:  3   Besiktas:    2
Besiktas:     3   Fenerbahce:  0
Galatasaray:  3   Fenerbahce:  2

Bu sonuclardan sonra kupayi Galatasaray aldi. Sezona her zaman oldugu gibi
cok iddiali girerek cok buyuk konusan FB sezon oncesi buyuk bozguna ugradi.
Bu sezon sampiyonluktan oteye en buyuk hedeflarinin Besiktas'i maglup
etmek olacagini soyleyen FB'liler bir kez daha Besiktas tarafindan hezimete
ugratildi. Galatasaray`a tebrikler.

----------------------------------------------------------------
 ARMAGAN A. OZDINC
 Paramax Systems, Valley Forge Labs, Research and Development
________________________________________________________________
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:8865 soc.culture.soviet:6736
From: patrick@is.rice.edu (Turk Tweaker)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: 'Zap*' Of IBM -- A Mouthpiece For 'ASALA/SDPA/ARF' : Expose'.
Date: 14 Aug 1992 06:08:32 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: This is me.  Rice is them.

In article <9208121320.A9593Pt@anadolu.michigan.com>, han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu) writes:
>
><Bsv57x.DvL@rice.edu>
>patrick@is.rice.edu (Patrick L. Humphrey)
>
>>Get this garbage out of soc.culture.soviet, Muttlu.  NOW.
>
>Well, you are barking up the wrong tree. There is no doubt in my
>mind that if 'Zap*' and the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism 
>Triangle stopped sending in those weekly paychecks, there would be no 
>more articles posted by 'mutlu' to 'Humphrey-land.'

So go back to your little hovel in the Third World and get yourself killed.
The world will be a little bit better off for it, and Usenet will be a LOT
better off.  Keep your garbage in newsgroups that it pertains to -- and
anything *.soviet doesn't fit that description.  You dig?


-- 
Patrick L. Humphrey  (patrick@is.rice.edu)  Rice Networking & Computing Systems
     +1 713 528-3626 at Rice. 776-1541 at home. 667-6554 at Palace Lanes. 
                   Mutlu, a good reason to switch to MCI...
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:8762 soc.culture.yugoslavia:7879
From: han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Subject: And Everybody Will Be Impressed With 'Gav*0's New Skill.
Date: 16 Aug 92 02:09:10 GMT





<9208161957.AA23209@cs.wisc.edu>
UCNICK%umuc@HARVARD.HARVARD.EDU (Nick Gavrielatos)

>Yes, sure, here is my comment! FUCK YOUR ALLAH!

And everybody will be impressed with 'Gav*0's new skill. In any 
event, Germany had shown interest in nationalities, as a tool
to dismember the Russian empire, back in World War I. In the time
between the two World Wars, expelled leaders of Soviet nationalities
were lobbying the capitals of European powers to gain support for 
their respective causes. Already in 1936, the SS Headquarters
(Reichssicherheitshauptamt) had created bureaus (Vertrauensstellen)
to contact emigrants and oversee their activities. The Vertrauensstellen
for the Caucasus was led by the Armenian Deirajr Froundjian and the
Georgian Lado Achmeteli.[1] 

Shortly after the occupation of Warsaw and Paris, the German Abwehr
(Secret Service) assumed ties with exiled leaders of diverse Soviet
nationalities, among them Armenian Dashnags.[2] One of the leaders
of the Dashnaktzoutun, the aforementioned General Dro 'the butcher'
(Drastamat Kanajan) began working relationship with the Nazis around 
that time.

[1] Patrick von zur Muhlen (Muehlen), 'Zwischen Hakenkreuz und
    Sowjetstern,' (Droste Verlag Duesseldorf 1971), p.37
[2] Ibid., p. 84.
 
Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: da26@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Deniz  Akkus)
Subject: Kill File Wanted
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 15:32:00 GMT

Does anyone have handy a certain kill file that gets posted to
soc.culture.turkish every once in a while? :-) 

Esen kalin,
Deniz Akkus

Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:9206 talk.politics.mideast:18936 talk.politics.soviet:7187 soc.culture.greek:7848 soc.culture.europe:7583 soc.history:7581
From: dogrusou@colossus.cs.rpi.edu (Ugur Dogrusoz)
Subject: TSYD Kupasi Maclari Hakkinda Ayrintili Bilgi ?
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 03:30:56 GMT


   Bu konuda bilgisi olan nete yazabilir mi acaba ?

   Tesekkurler.

   -Ugur


Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:8797 talk.politics.mideast:18516 talk.politics.soviet:6928 soc.culture.greek:7446 soc.culture.europe:7224 soc.history:7272
From: hbm@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Hasan B. Mutlu)
Subject: Armenian Sources On The Armenian Genocide Of The Turkish People.
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 05:25:49 GMT
X-Disclaimer:  Material posted in this article is the sole responsibility of
                the poster and does not represent MCSNet or the system owners.





<1992Aug17.124908.5821@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
cjp8b@dayhoff.med.Virginia.EDU (Chris Penington)

>appropriate newsgroups. Should Hasan B Mutlu lose his posting
>privileges? Personally I don't think so, but I'm getting sick of
>seeing his crap, and all of the heated nationalistic arguments it
>generates, spilling over into soc.culture.australian. If you find

When you have finished mumbling I'd suggest you answer the points
'Aharonian' has raised below.

Source: "From Sardarapat to Sevres and Lausanne" by Avetis Aharonian. The 
Armenian Review, Vol. 16, No. 3-63, Autumn, Sep. 1963, pp. 47-57.

p. 52 (second paragraph).

"Your three chiefs, Dro, Hamazasp and Kulkhandanian are the ringleaders
 of the bands which have destroyed Tartar villages and have staged 
 massacres in Zangezour, Surmali, Etchmiadzin, and Zangibasar. This is
 intolerable. Look - and here he pointed to a file of official documents
 on the table - look at this, here in December are the reports of the last
 few months concerning ruined Tartar villages which my representative
 Wardrop has sent me. The official Tartar communique speaks of the
 destruction of 300 villages."

p. 54 (fifth paragraph).

"Yes, of course. I repeat, until this massacre of the Tartars is stopped
 and the three chiefs are not removed from your military leadership I
 hardly think we can supply you arms and ammunition."

"...it is the armed bands led by Dro, Hamazasp and Kulkhandanian who
 during the past months have raided and destroyed many Tartar villages in
 the regions of Surmali, Etchmiadzin, Zangezour, and Zangibasar. There are
 official charges of massacres."

Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)


Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: fsdhp@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: The Arm. Gen. of Turks Explained!
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:13:27 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

The greatest crime that can be laid against the Armenians is not their virtual
annihilation of the Turkish people, but the fact that it was in vain.

Armenian seers foresaw Mutlu, and with heavy hearts decided to bear the social
opprobrium that would come from people without the gifts of prophecy.  And who
can entirely blame them?

What I don't understand was the relentless program of extermination of the
Germanic peoples carried out over the centuries by the pitiless, perfidious
Jews! Talk about your covered-up genocides!

A solution: The Armenian government delivers a formal apology for any genocide
they may have inadvertantly committed, and Mutlu is turned over to the Armenian
Republic, where there will be no reprisals. In fact, guarantee him lifetime
employment in the national stables.

Peace,
D. Pennell
From: esrmp@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Lami Kaya)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Test
Date: 19 Aug 92 11:23:34 GMT

This is a testing message.

Lami
From: petrov@tfs.com (George Petrov)
Subject: Re: Meggy and Yugoslavia
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:34:17 GMT

In article <Aug.11.04.57.27.1992.6867@pilot.njin.net> hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey) writes:
>Well, the first American soldiers have arrived in Yugoslavia. That's
>about time--very late actually.
>
>Hoping for peace while one side is poorly armed and starving to death
>while the other side is continuously pounding them with artillery
>is not my view of the New International Order. If the UN cannot
>act as the world's police force, then maybe the old world order
>was better. 
>
>Comparisons to Vietnam are silly. There's no triple cover jungle
>canopy in Yugoslavia. Serbia won't be able to keep fighting 
>against Croatia, Slovenia and Bosnia without its tanks, and airplanes
>and they'll be sitting (and flying) ducks for American fighter
>planes. After that attacking will mean suffering heavy losses.
>
>WW1 already taught that. Frontal assaults against machine guns
>is suicide. It used to work before WW1 when rifles were inaccurate
>and not easy to fire rapidly. 
>
>Determined suicidal fighting is usually reserved in defense of a
>homeland. Soldiers occupying enemy territory are more prone to
>suffer loss of morale when they start to suffer heavy losses :-)..
>
>And finally, negative feedback, as is known very well in Control
>Theory, is necessary and sufficient to control situations.
>
>
>PS. A couple of thousand fighting missions should be enough to
>get the message across that from then on there'll be no
>more cheap victories.
>-- 
>
>	mark	
>
>
>   hubey@pilot.njin.net                   hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
> ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey                  hubey@logos.montclair.edu

	There are damn good reasons for the US ground forces
	to stay out of the Balkan mess.  Even though Yugoslav
	terrain is not a jungle, it is, nonetheless, quite rugged.
	And, a parallal with Vietnam is that you never know who will
	be shooting at you, from what direction.  To Americans (and
	to most W. Europeans) there is no visible difference between
	a Serb, Croat, Bosnian, Macedonian or Albanian.  There
	could easily be mistakes, resulting in massacres.

	You may have heard about how much trouble it was for the
	Germans to control the place a few years ago.  They, too,
	had plenty of air power, and they were not nearly as
	fastidious about whom they shot, as US forces would try
	to be.  I contend that any military intervention using fewer 
	than 500,000 troops will be futile, anyway -- just a
	cosmetic show for the election year.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:8962 soc.culture.europe:7391 soc.culture.yugoslavia:8010
From: kutluk@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Kutluk Ozguven)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: Hats off to Meggy
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:13:41 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

In <5896@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille) writes:

>In article <1992Aug10.173949.12192@gvl.unisys.com> armagan@prc.unisys.com writes:
>>
>>Mrs. Thatcher said during the interview at ABC yesterday, "This is
>>a moral issue for all of us. We cannot stand and watch. We must
>>immediately start delivering arms into the hands of Bosnians to
>>defend themselves and NATO air forces should strike all of the Serbian
>>supply lines and ammunition depots in both Serbia and the Serbian
>>occupied parts of Bosnia." I was not a great fan of Mrs. Thatcher and
>>her policies in the past. But after I listened her yesterday, she
>>earned a great respect in my eyes, because so far she was the only
>>prominent political figure from the West who came forward, told the
>>truth, and condemned the Western world's reluctance in helping the
>>Bosnians.


>I do not think that delivering weapons is a solution. If anything we
>should make them disappear from that part of the world.

>If you had a fire going, would you throw some black powder into it to stop
>it? Only an idiot would (yes, this is a flame.)
[..]

You say
a) no international force from the West,
b) non-Westerners cannot be allowed to form an international force,
c) the Bosnians cannot be allowed to defend themselves because blah blah.

The reason tens of thousands of Bosnian men, women and children
killed by Serbs is that they had no mens to protect themselves.
If they are supplied some, they can protect themselves, survive
from stravation and death traps, and fight back with the Serbian
army to get back their land. This is their legitimate right.
There is a recognized legitimate and elected Bosnian government
and we must help them to overcome the genocidal invasion in their
country.

Remember that your logic would reward Adolf Hitler's invasion
of Poland. The Serbian government, and the Bosnian Serbs' leadership
is commiting the same crimes based on same nationalism.

There is an open good and bad in this situation; it is simpler
than Lebanese civil war. The Serbian fascistocommunism is the bad
side here. They invaded a foreign country, they massacred tens of 
thosusands of defenceless people, they deported 2 million people,
they are preparing to do the same thing in Kosova, another two million
to deport or massacre, while they are opressing  Croats, Muslims,
Albanians and Hungarians. The reason of suffering is the Serbian
nationalism and supplying arms to defend themselves against this sick
men is the right solution. The other one is of course international
force.  

Kutluk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.greek,talk.politics.soviet
From: cosar@ulysses.cs.umn.edu (Ahmet Cosar)
Subject: Re: Standing Trial (was re: a question)
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 02:26:40 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.204331.14873@husc3.harvard.edu> verbit@birkhoff.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:

Your kind is not worth to reply 'Verbitsky,' I will handle your case
with your postmaster, whether you like it or not.

Please keep producing more material for your postmaster, will you?


--
   A.Cosar                                                                      ________________________________________________________________________                
Disc space -- the final frontier!                                               ________________________________________________________________________

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Disclaimer: I speak for myself<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:8879 soc.culture.europe:7304 soc.culture.yugoslavia:7950 soc.culture.greek:7520 soc.culture.british:11520 soc.culture.french:5804 soc.culture.german:5620 soc.culture.italian:3307
From: neilp@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Postlethwaite)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.french,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.italian
Subject: Re: Hats off to Meggy
Date: 13 Aug 92 11:50:56 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Heriot-Watt University, Scotland

In article <1992Aug10.200736.5950@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> luciano@athos.Berkeley.EDU (Luciano Lavagno) writes:
>
>England tried to do exactly the same thing in Northern Ireland. Send in the
>army to stop the "bloodshed" (at least this was the official motivation). It
>did not work, and now there are even various reports about a "shoot-to-kill"
>policy being unofficially applied by the army itself...
>

P.S. As opposed to an *official* shoot and bomb TO KILL policy of the IRA ??
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.australian
From: varnavas@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (varnavas constantine)
Subject: Re: EDUCATION SPECIAL: MAP OF THE WORLD
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:30:05 GMT

han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu) writes:


><Bsy0BM.2wC@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
>varnavas@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (varnavas constantine)

>>If so present facts, and do
>>not post Mutlu-like articles not related to the point raised.

>Let us say you are half-drunk. Now, what is the apparent problem?
>What is the real problem?

>Source: Professor Stanford J. Shaw, 'The Jews of the Ottoman Empire and the
>        Turkish Republic,' New York University Press, New York (1991).

>  page 187:

(More than 250 lines of irrelevant junk deleted.

The response of Hasan B. Mutlu to the above articles proves once more that
a)  Hasan B. Mutlu is a moron (to put it mildly) OR
b)  Is an Artificial Intelligence program (the emphasis on Artificial, since
    it definitely is not a very intelligent one.)

Hasan B. Mutlu responce to my follow-up to the issue of the so-called
"Republic of Macedonia" consisted of one of his usual insults, followed by
a totally unrelated passage from a book about an alledged genocide of Jews 
in Greece!! (not that I read the article since I know what kind of garbage 
Hasan B. Mutlu posts).  It seems that merely the mentioning of Mutlu's name 
in any article generates an immediate (and almost always totally unrelated) 
response.  The mention of Mutlu's name anywhere in the article acts like a 
red cloth waved in front of a raging bull.  I suggest this method to anyone
that wants to irritate Hasan B. Mutlu.
-- 
Constantinos Varnavas
University of Illinois
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:9101 talk.politics.mideast:18826 talk.politics.soviet:7119 soc.culture.greek:7729 soc.culture.europe:7504 soc.history:7496
From: hbm@ddsw1.mcs.com (Hasan B. Mutlu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Subject: Re: The 'ASALA/SDPA/ARF' 'kucukucus' Would Like 'Tamamidis,' I Think.
Date: 19 Aug 92 05:17:00 GMT




<1992Aug17.124213.28514@ddsw1.mcs.com>
karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger)

>Not at all, considering the number of forgeries in his name I have seen
>since I started paying a modicum of attention to the matter.
>I was simply asking if >this particular article< is legitimate.  Circular and
>general statements don't answer the question.

Why am I condemned to repeat ad-infinitum that the above is nonsense? This 
is one theory that you keep throwing out of your hat without having ever
presented a shred of evidence to back it up, Karl. Can you provide any
proof for this assertion? 


Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe
From: cza@prefect.uucp (Cengiz Akgun)
Subject: Re: What kind of people are Turks?
Reply-To: cza@prefect.UUCP (Cengiz Akgun)
Organization: Bell Communications Research, Navesink, NJ,
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 14:13:44 GMT

In article <VVIRRANK.92Aug17153358@klaava.Helsinki.FI> vvirrank@cc.Helsinki.FI (Ville Virrankoski) writes:
>may spread...
>(Personally, I could some day visit ancient Constantinopolis but I hope
>as little contacts as possible with modern Istambul.)
>
>
>Stop humiliating Turks, Hasan B. Mutlu!
>
>
>V.Virrankoski


After seeing your howling from Finland, you also better stay home.  
Sure, It is not a coincidence the things that I heard about
Finns from Sweds and Norwegians before.  I guess the Scandinavian 
myth of being most civilized around have exceptions as Sweds and 
Norwegians pointed out to me once.  I could not belive my ears then.  
Alas, seeing the 'Finos' (what was called here before me) who are 
crawling out of their rocks in a dime a dozen fashion has opened 
my eyes.  What a shame!  One more thing that I keep forgeting.  
Who knows, the extereme cold temperatures in tundra may be the reason 
for the manifestation of these type of juvenile delinquency above. 

C. Akgun